#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-21
<StrikeForce> how do I find out what flags are causing dpkg to finish compiling?
<StrikeForce> I've run the program using ./configure make and make install as per the rules script that gets put in there with dh_make however if I run it through dpackage with the cfflags it dies going through the compiling process?
<thierry> at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath?action=show it is said "Also be sure to notify upstream/debian of the changes so they can fix the files aswell." How can I notify debian?
<plugwash> if its to fix a bug i'd think a bugreport in thier bug tracking system would be the obvious way
<plugwash> otherwise i'd think an e-mail to the maintainer
<thierry> plugwash : what is the adress of their bug tracking system?
<allee> thierry: use reportbug (pkg has same name)
<allee> thierry: bugs.debian.org  but you submit and manipulate via e-mail not webinterface
<magnon> ouch. I just thought of that I don't think I've had a proper dinner since Montreal :(
<dholbach> good night guys :)
<Kyral> a lot of lib updates....this Prelink took a long time
<shadeofgrey> hi everybody!
<shadeofgrey> i dont belong here by any stretch ofthe imagination, but...  i just wanted to say thanks for keeping up all the work you have to do that i certainly dont understand that makes my apt-get days bright, happy, and full of joy
<Lathiat> :)
<shadeofgrey> ...now quit dicking around and get to firefox 1.5 damnit
<shadeofgrey> =)
<shadeofgrey> ....please
<shadeofgrey> ?
<shadeofgrey> ill bribe you with liqiour and krispy kreme donuts
<shadeofgrey> ...i know you coder kind love junk food
* shadeofgrey waves an un-opened bag of dorrito's suggestively
<shadeofgrey> ill grovel
<shadeofgrey> i have no shame
<tseng> please knock it off
<shadeofgrey> okay but seriously -when do you think we'll be able to update to 1.5?
<shadeofgrey> there are major improvements in that version...
<tseng> when its ready
<shadeofgrey> big time.
<tseng> it takes hours to just build and test once
<shadeofgrey> can you give me an estimate?
<shadeofgrey> hmm..
<tseng> and there are tons of packages against a huge source tree
<shadeofgrey> well
<tseng> s/packages/patches
<shadeofgrey> is there any way i can help you?
<SEJeff> shadeofgrey: I can't talk tonight, I'm studying for my test tomorrow
<tseng> see the thread on ubuntu-devel mailing list
<shadeofgrey> okay.
<shadeofgrey> ill leave now
<jianggw> Is the  leader of each team  appointed by community council or self-appointed?
<tseng> depends on your definition of team
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> jianggw, are you the Victor yesterday?
<tseng> jianggw: members of the ubuntu-development team on launchpad are appointed by CC
<tseng> er, ubuntu-members
<tseng> ubuntu-dev is by TB
<tseng> and ubuntu-core-dev
<tseng> other teams in the Launchpad sense are free to be created by anyone
* whiprush_ creates Team Tseng
<tseng> whiprush_: 313773!
<zakame> hihi
<tseng> ONEONEONE
<zakame> tseng, is tseng.ath.cx up? :)  I was roaring to read your dpatch howto ;)
<jianggw> tseng:thanks!You are right.It is me!how do you know it?
<tseng> jianggw: wrong nick
<tseng> zakame: no
<tseng> zakame: it is anticlimactic anyway
<zakame> ah
<zakame> jianggw, via the logs, and a /whois :)
<tseng> sigh, evolution
<jianggw> ubuntu-dev and ubuntu-development are different teams?
<tseng> erm
<tseng> i take liberties to not fully expand easily comprehensible words
<jianggw>  in the webpage http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/council,it wrote:The Chairman of the Community Council is yet to be determined.Isn't sabdfl the chairman?
<jianggw> http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3590&d=1132034495 is a structure chart of community drawn by me.Is it correct?
<Kyral> Now this is embarrassing
<jianggw> Kyral:why???
<Kyral> Some guy who I helped IM'd me saying he hopes he can one day help people with Linux like I do
<zakame> Kyral, wow
<Kyral> Some days I wonder why I try so hard and then this happens I have my answer
<zakame> hmmm, maybe a stupid question, but is backporting a NEW package from dapper to breezy sane? :p
<jianggw> Would you please help me point out the mistake in the diagram?So I can improve it.
<Kyral> depends on the package :D
<zakame> it's lighttpd, not yet even in revu... I just got an email about it, asking that question...
<tseng> its in revu
<zakame> yes but that's not mine, and its broken
<zakame> basically just a run of upstream's ./debian
<zakame> motus: can you please check Malone #4089 debdiff if its ok and ready for build-to-upload? thanks :)
<Ubugtu`> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<DrBair> I'm looking to get involved with development, I've created a launchpad account and signed the agreement and everything, I'm just not sure where exactly to go from here.
<bmonty_laptop> DrBair: you can work on merges or bug fixing
<DrBair> is that something I need to become a member for first?
<crimsun> nope. You can work and attach debdiffs to the malone bugs
<bmonty_laptop> not really, you can work on packages and ask someone to sponsor their upload for you, that is what I do
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun is helpful in doing that :)
<bmonty_laptop> DrBair: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge
<DrBair> sounds good, I'll be sure to rip into that tomorrow
<bmonty_laptop> two more packages and all of the packages that start with b are merged (minus bzr, I'm not touching that)
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: great! I'll look in a bit.
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: they are all syncs
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: k
<bmonty_laptop> I want to get merges under 500 packages tonight :)
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: malone #4509 has a debdiff for upload
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #4509: burn: merge new debian version Fix req. for: burn (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4509
<zakame> hi Burgundavia
<hunger> Good morning.
* hunger thinks he figured out the python issue yesterday evening, using python-apt as an example.
<zakame> hi hunger , wtg!
<Burgundavia> salut zakame
<hunger> zakame: wtg?
<hunger> Burgundavia: hiho.
<zakame> hunger: way to go :)
<Burgundavia> hey hunger
<hunger> zakame: Oh, yes... but only adapting a couple of scripts is left to do I think(/hope).
<zakame> hunger: cool!
<hunger> Damn SuSE specific stuff:-)
<polpak> how long does it normally take to get a backport request filled? (just curious)
<siretart> morning
<hunger> siretart: morning.
<siretart> huhu tobias!
<zakame> hi siretart ! :)
<Burgundavia> polpak, a variable amount of time. When did you file the request and what was it for/
<polpak> Burgundavia, I filed it yesterday.. It was for ogre, a truely sweet 3d rendering engine
<polpak> I'm wanting to do some game development with it
<Burgundavia> polpak, likely at least a few days
<Burgundavia> polpak, if not longer
<polpak> Burgundavia, ok. I figured as much
<polpak> Burgundavia, thx
<zakame> hi Seveas , slomo !
<slomo> hi zakame
<slomo> zakame: you can sync gpsd... i was a bit confused ;)
<slomo> the dbus changes are upstream iirc
<zakame> slomo: I did some small changes though :) anyway, it built fine, and gtkpbbuttons too :)
<SloMoSnail> zakame: did you read what i've said about gpsd?
<zakame> SloMoSnail: yep
<SloMoSnail> zakame: or the dbus patch isn't upstream? hmm, please test
<zakame> SloMoSnail: checking it again, it seems the dbus isn't in upstream
<SloMoSnail> zakame: yes... hmm, then it was another package... please don't sync but merge then ;)
<zakame> SloMoSnail: ok, it already is currently as `to be merged', PendingUpload ;)
<SloMoSnail> zakame: oh, you have a merged diff? url please and i send it up :)
<zakame> SloMoSnail: http://librarian.launchpad.net/1183186/gpsd_2.28-2ubuntu1.debdiff
<SloMoSnail> zakame: ah, gtkpbbuttons... is the common package still all? or powerpc?
<zakame> SloMoSnail: powerpc it seems... can't build in x86
<SloMoSnail> zakame: really? then it's safe to sync from debian
<zakame> SloMoSnail: yup :)
<SloMoSnail> zakame: i ask because i changed it before for us... same for the dbus stuff in gpsd ;)
<SloMoSnail> against what version is your debdiff?
<zakame> SloMoSnail: yeah, I've seen it in the changelog
<SloMoSnail> ok, i'll upload it later... bbl
<Victorjiang>  what is the difference between ubuntu,kubuntu and edubuntu?
<zakame> wb Victorjiang
<zakame> Victorjiang: is this for a school project? :)
<siretart> Victorjiang: they are derivatives, but share the same repositories. the only in the installer
<chip1> any luck with ubuntu-lite?
<Victorjiang> thanks
<Victorjiang> siretart:installer?Do you mean the only difference is that kubuntu with kde and ubuntu with gnome?
<siretart> Victorjiang: basically, yes
<zakame> wb dholbach
<dholbach> good morning
<zakame> dang ion3 has such a heavyweight build-deps
<viviersf> ajmitch, soz for OT question, but do you know what michael machs nick is ?
<dholbach> hi Tonio_, zakame
<viviersf> dholbach, do you know by any chance ?
<hunger> Is there a policy on when to use which log_*_msg?
<dholbach> michal mach?, no sorry
<viviersf> :/
<viviersf> thx nways
<viviersf> dholbach, he was the polish dude at ubz
<dholbach> viviersf: i know, i met him :)
<dholbach> but i don't know his nick, sorry :(
<hunger> Can I split Depends: over multiple lines?
<zakame> hunger: lintian will warn you about it
<hunger> zakame: OK, then I'll not do that.
<hunger> zakame: Thanks.
<zakame> hunger: no problem :-)
<viviersf> arg i hate it when you find a new app
<viviersf> try to compile it
<viviersf> and the configure script is totally wasted
<zakame> hihi
<zakame> have you tried upgrading the autotools?
<viviersf> nah zakame
<viviersf> this package just make a small configure script
<viviersf> its just it doesnt work
<viviersf> then also
<viviersf> they release source with invalid code
<viviersf> there aint a file like "qlist.h"
<viviersf> its qlistbox.h
<viviersf> :/
<zakame> hmm, seems that the ./configure or Makefile is very old
<viviersf> how can the ./configure make problems with physical code in other files
<viviersf> wghahaha
<viviersf> i tell the dude next to me to apt-get apache
<viviersf> so he picks up the bloody phone
<viviersf> :/
<StrikeForce> where do I lodge bug reports for dapper?
<StrikeForce> anyone?
<siretart> StrikeForce: probably malone
<StrikeForce> siretart, is coreutils part of main?
<siretart> sure
<siretart> -> bugzilla :)
<StrikeForce> sweet no worries?
<siretart> I worry that bugzilla may be incredibly slow
<StrikeForce> siretart, off topic but I registered in bugzilla and added my gpg key and signed the agreement?
<StrikeForce> what else do I need to do to become a member?
<siretart> StrikeForce: what is your lp id?
<StrikeForce> MarcWiriadisastra
<StrikeForce> I'd like to become and MOTU
<siretart> StrikeForce: you need to register with launchpad
<StrikeForce> I have
<StrikeForce> sorry strikeforce
<StrikeForce> I signed it yesterday
<StrikeForce> https://launchpad.net/people/strikeforce
<siretart> okay. then apply for the https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers team
<siretart> and try to attend the next CommunityCouncil
<StrikeForce> thanks :)
<siretart> we were thinking about changing this procedure a bit, but AFAIK we did not decide yet, so I'm telling you the procedures that I think that are valid :)
<sivang> MOrning all
<StrikeForce> siretart, I've just clicked on join the team
<StrikeForce> siretart, are the meetings weekly?
<siretart> I think biweekly
<raphink> siretart: did you have a look at my key ? I've got several packages to upload ...
<StrikeForce> sweet ok now what time is UTC to GMT?
<siretart> raphink: done :)
<raphink> argh
<siretart> Mono 1.1.10 released! :)
<StrikeForce> siretart, do we have to wait for mono to be packaged for debian?
<StrikeForce> or do we package it ourselves for ubuntu?
<siretart> StrikeForce: ask tseng
<StrikeForce> oh ok
<Nafallo> someone c++-sawy might want to take a look at the tse3-merge :-)
<raphink> when running debuild on a package, I get errors from tar -xkf :
<raphink> tar: kyamo/admin/acinclude.m4.in: Cannot open: File exists
<raphink> tar: kyamo/admin/Doxyfile.am: Cannot open: File exists
<raphink> tar: kyamo/admin/libtool.m4.in: Cannot open: File exists
<raphink> and debuild exists with an status 2
<siretart> raphink: did you try in pbuilder?
<raphink> I need to build the source package first
<raphink> I have no dsc yet
<raphink> it used to build fine
<siretart> oh
<siretart> strange
<raphink> but I just switched by rules to cdbs
<raphink> it worked fine with a classic rules
<siretart> cdbs is sometime quite unobvious
<raphink> :s
<raphink> yep
* siretart didn't advocate cdbs ;)
<raphink> I just included debhelper.mk
<raphink> hehe ;)
<siretart> I'm using it for my 2 debian packages, though..
<raphink> oh maybe I need autotools too
<raphink> I'll see
<raphink> hmm no :(
<raphink> is there anything special to add when a package is using automake ?
<raphink> apart from adding automake to the build deps
<pef> hello
<siretart> hi pef
<pef> hello siretart  :)
<pef> How breezy-updates works ? is it only for security fixes ?
<tseng> major bugfixes
<tseng> they have to be obvious fixes, no large complicated patch
<pef> tseng: ok, and who should I contact ?
<tseng> mdz
<juliux> hi
<raphink> I'm having a pb with tar in the creation of the source target
<raphink> because it uses the -k option which crashes
<raphink> dpkg-source: failure: tar -xkf - gave error exit status 2
<raphink> tar: kyamo/admin/acinclude.m4.in: Cannot open: File exists
<raphink> tar: kyamo/admin/Doxyfile.am: Cannot open: File exists
<raphink> tar: kyamo/admin/libtool.m4.in: Cannot open: File exists
<raphink> tar: Read 2048 bytes from -
<raphink> tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
<raphink> debuild: fatal error at line 765:
<raphink> dpkg-buildpackage failed!
<raphink> any way I could set that?
<janimo> REVU needed and appreciated for thunar file manager, thanks
<lucas> siretart: have you started working on a package ?
<lucas> if not, I'd like to work on this
<pmjdebruijn> lo all
<xerxas> is there any plan for transition to initng for dapper ?
<dholbach> xerxas: discussion was on ubuntu-devel@
<dholbach> several times
<dholbach> initng is considered to be immature
<dholbach> and since dapper will be supported for 5 years on the server, i'd say no
<Amaranth> dapper+1 will probably be the first to see a new init system
<lucas> I remember reading sthing about a server for MOTUs
<lucas> where they have an account and can run scripts
<lucas> ah that's revu.tauware.de
<siretart> lucas: on what package?
<lucas> motu-tools
<siretart> lucas: not yet, I'm still polishing some tools there
<lucas> I mean packaging + daily builds
<zakame> hello again :D
<xerxas> dholbach: initng is considered immature because it's to young ?
<siretart> lucas: commit the package, let me merge your branch, and then lets think how to make daily builds
<siretart> commit your packaging, that is
<dholbach> xerxas: i have never investigated it, but i heard quite a lot of people referring to it as a hack *shrug* i suggest you read the thread on ubuntu-devel@ - should be in the bootchart thread as well
<pmjdebruijn> xerxas, init is a major piece of your environment, even the slightest doubt should prevent it from being included into dapper
<zakame> Nafallo: my thanks again :)
<xerxas> if noone includes it, it won't never be mature
<Nafallo> :-)
<xerxas> but maybe it's not ubuntu's job
<zakame> xerxas: what's up with init-ng?
<Nafallo> xerxas: it's not ubuntus job in the release they will support for 5 years, no.
<Nafallo> 1.5 is bad enough.
<xerxas> that's a a good point :)
<raphink> anyone has got an idea about why my package will build using the -k option in tar when using cdbs and not when using a classic rules ?
<lucas> siretart: I haven't worked on packaging yet
<siretart> lucas: I'd suggest using simple debhelper magic
<lucas> I'll work on this tonight
<lucas> what's required to get an account on revu.tauware.de ?
<lucas> is it a public system ?
<lucas> (or is there a public system for MOTUs ?)
<Amaranth> i think it uses your signed key
<siretart> lucas: we agreed that every motu can apply for an account on tiber
<lucas> ok
<lucas> and how do one become a motu ? :)
<zakame> wow, a motu-tools package!
<Amaranth> lucas: become an ubuntu member, start getting some packages sponsored for upload, get your key signed by someone that gets you to ogra's key
<Amaranth> so those in any order :P
<Amaranth> err, do
<xerxas> lucas: start by helping, packaging, fixing bugs ( and genrate a gpg key)
<ogra_> (and get is signed ) ;)
<ogra_> s/is/it
<raphink> what is ogra's key Amaranth ?
<raphink> I mean what's the reference of it?
<Amaranth> ask him
<ogra_> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?STAT=A2D06936&STATS=statistics
<ogra_> try that url
<raphink> or rather ogra what 'syour key?
<lucas> well my key has been in the strongly connected set for 4 or 5 years I think ;)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> thanks
<ogra_> if you get *any* kind of connection between your and my key, you should be fine
<Amaranth> lucas: can you get a path from yours to ogra's?
<lucas> Amaranth: *strongly connected set* ;)
<siretart> lucas: what is your lp id?
<raphink> ogra_: http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=A2D06936&TO=74BF771E&PATHS=trust+paths
<raphink> is that fine for you ? :D
<ogra_> Amaranth, if he'S in the strong set :)
<lucas> siretart: LNussbaum
<lucas> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=A2D06936&TO=023B3F4F&PATHS=trust+paths
<ogra_> raphink, looks good :)
<raphink> :)
<siretart> lucas: no, your launchpad id, that has to bee all lowercase
<xerxas> can anybody point me to things to do ?
<xerxas> (I didn't find bug I want to investigate on)
<Nafallo> xerxas: /topic
<xerxas> bugs
<ogra_> xerxas, there is a MotuToMerge page ...
<ogra_> start with this one
<siretart> lucas: never mind, found it
<lucas> ah
<zakame> ogra_: how about my key, is it okay? :) http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?STAT=FA53851D&STATS=statistics
<ogra_> zakame, absolutely
<xerxas> ogra_: do you understand this page ?
<zakame> ogra_: wow, thanks :)
<xerxas> this means for example that aatv is to be repackaged ?
<xerxas> in http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107.log aatv seems to have a 404 error
<sistpoty> hi folks
<zakame> xerxas: yes, some of the pkgs there have that
<xerxas> zakame: these are packages that I can package ?
<zakame> hi sistpoty , how do you do? :)
<sistpoty> hi zakame, I'm fine, thx ;)
<zakame> xerxas: no, they're already packaged ;)  but (motus, please correct my if i'm wrogn ;) if such a pkg needs any change, work on that and tell the motus about it, preferably in debdiff form :)
<xerxas> zakame: so I don't understand the purpose of this file
<xerxas> I can tell a motu or report a bug for any package
<xerxas> not the ones that have 404 errors
<ogra_> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new
<ogra_> that might be a better ressource
<zakame> xerxas: the mom log is raw, ogra_ 's pointer is the better resource :)
<zakame> xerxas: though if you are actually doing a merge, the raw log will be useful as it tells you where to get source pkgs for both debian and merged
<xerxas> humm
<xerxas> still don't understand where there's work to do
<xerxas> can I try to repackage mono 1.1.10 ?
<xerxas> and then beagke 0.12 ?
<pmjdebruijn> xerxas, has already been released?
<xerxas> yes
<xerxas> yesterday or so
<ogra_> xerxas, you should talk to the mono team for mono stuff (tseng and slomo for example)
<ogra_> mono is far more than just repackaging ... you have to know in which order the packages need to be built ...
<raphink> what does merging exctly consist in?
<pmjdebruijn> xerxas, cool
<ogra_> (if i understood right you dont have to boostrap the compiler aanymore, but it still needs decent knowledge about the packages)
<dholbach> raphink: making sure that no changes either on debian/ubuntu side are dropped
<raphink> hmmm
<ogra_> raphink, merging means we did a change to a package in breezy...
<pmjdebruijn> xerxas, on the subject of mono
<ogra_> now debian has a new version with or without adopting these changes
<pmjdebruijn> xerxas, could you take a look at this: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mono/+bug/4531
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #4531: Newer MonoDevelop doesn't work properly Fix req. for: mono (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Mono Team, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4531
<xerxas> ogra_: ok mono will probably be too hard for me
<raphink> hmm ok
<xerxas> that is what I was thinking
<xerxas> ogra_ for exemple gnome-gpg is to be repackaged for dapper ?
<ogra_> we have to decide is the changes are still needed and reapply them if this is the case ... else we'll drop them and just sync the debian package
<ogra_> thats the core of so called merging :)
<xerxas> pmjdebruijn: looking at the link
<xerxas> ogra_ so for exemple for gnome-gpg I need to look at the patches and try to know if I can remove some parts of it ?
<zakame> wb highvoltage
<ogra_> xerxas, exactly
<highvoltage> zakame: thanks. connected through cell phone. internet connection very dodgy
<zakame> highvoltage: wow, I haven't tried that before :)
<highvoltage> my phone has a usb cable, all i need to do is plug it into laptop, and dial *99# :)
<pmjdebruijn> xerxas, it's basically a small bugfix which will allow MonoDevelop 0.8 to run on Breezy without doing a major mono update
<zakame> highvoltage: hmmm, I should try that sometime... when I get a cellphone ;)
<highvoltage> :)
<\sh> ogra: ping is it snowing at your place`
<\sh> ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> only raining
<azeem> whoops, it's indeed raining here as well
* azeem didn't notice
<Nafallo> neither here :_)
<Nafallo> :-)
<sistpoty> hey \sh, can you upload a package to universe for me?
<\sh> sistpoty: sure i can....
<sistpoty> cool... it's on tiber at /home/sistpoty/public_html/uploads (ghc6)
<\sh> uahhhh
<sistpoty> I hope that elmo will add me to the keyring soon *g*
<ogra> sistpoty, since when are you approved as motu ? i think its about time he gets it done
<sistpoty> ogra: quite some time... but I only mailed him last friday, since I didn't have anything to upload before that day
<\sh> well...it takes time now...only 29kB
<ogra> sistpoty, fine then :)
<sistpoty> ' \sh: can't you directly ul from tiber?
<hunger> \sh: Fixed the python stuff according to your suggestions from yesterday.
<hunger> \sh: Thanks again for your help.
<\sh> sistpoty: no
<sistpoty> sh: ah, k
<sistpoty> + \
<sistpoty> ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: source upload?
<\sh> hunger: is it working?
<sistpoty> ' \sh: I'll check, but imo yes
<sistpoty> ' \sh: yes, new upstream version
<hunger> \sh: I do hope so:-)
<\sh> sistpoty: k
<sistpoty> thx, \sh
<hunger> \sh: Not really got around to test it yet (only just booted up the test machine).
<\sh> hunger: i mean is lintian complaining again, or is it just still :)
<\sh> s/still/silent/
<hunger> \sh: Lintian is quiet.
<hunger> \sh: I made python-xen arch any the last time round.
<hunger> \sh: s/any/all/
<hunger> \sh: It is any now, lintian has no more problem.
<hunger> Is there a simple way to check which other debs a deb depends on?
<\sh> apt-cache depends <package>?
<\sh> sistpoty: u should get now a katie mail
<sistpoty> cool, thx \sh
<hunger> \sh: I do not have a apt repository for my stuff.
<slomo_> xerxas: no need to do beagle 1.1.2 and mono 1.1.10... 1.1.10 is almost ready and i bet tseng will care for beagle ;) but you can ask him if you could take some work from him
<hunger> Hmmm... any idea why my Depends: lines get ignored?
<hunger> Stupid me... because I have typos in them.
<ogra> <hunger> \sh: I made python-xen arch any the last time round.
<ogra> <hunger> \sh: s/any/all/
<ogra> <hunger> \sh: It is any now, lintian has no more problem.
<ogra> does it nee to be "any" ?
<ogra> i mean its only python bindings, right ?
<slomo_> xerxas: but if you're interested in mono stuff consider joining #ubuntu-mono :)
<slomo_> sistpoty: yay, ghc6 merged :)
<sistpoty> slomo_: :)... but this will lead to at least one FTBFS (hmake)... but I've already got a patch :)
<slomo_> sistpoty: then fix it ;)
<slomo_> sistpoty: i'll get my hands on cabal later :) after doing some too simple analysis exercises ;)
<sistpoty> slomo_: kk :)... hf with math. with hmake, I'll wait for ghc6 being built. If we're lucky, we might have a newer debian version then as well
<slomo_> sistpoty: so we can just sync? perfect :) you work with the debian guys on that?
<siretart> sistpoty: I was just uploading it to ubuntu, but I've seen ubuntu-changes earlier
<slomo_> siretart: ?
<xerxas> slomo_ ok
<xerxas> thanks
<siretart> I mean ghc6
<sistpoty> slomo_: i filed a patch in BTS... ;)
<hunger> \sh: It does work! OK, I actually exchanged "Depends:" with "Conflicts:" which did wreak some havok with my installed stuff, but that's a minor glitch;-)
<raphink>  I'm trying to understand how to log in on REVU
<raphink> I uploaded some packages
<hunger> raphink: Go to the page.
<raphink> I clicked on recover
<raphink> and it's giving me an encrypted message
<hunger> raphink: Enter your email and click on the "recover" link
<raphink> I decoded this message
<raphink> hunger: that's what I did
<hunger> raphink: Decrypt the message: Voila your passwd.
<raphink> nope hunger
<raphink> not voil my passwd
<raphink> that's the pb
<raphink> the passwd it gives me doesn't work
<hunger> raphink: What is in the file? Just a short rundom bunch of letters/numbers?
<raphink> nope hunger
<sistpoty> hunger: what's the email-addy you use for revu (the one you signed packages you uploaded to revu)?
<raphink> hunger: PM
<sistpoty> erm... raphink even ;)
<raphink> sistpoty: I use raphink@raphink.net to sign my packages
<raphink> but I sent my request to join the keyring from raphink@gmail.com
<raphink> the key contains both adds
<hunger> sistpoty: The one I give in debian/changelog.
<hunger> raphink: PM?
<raphink> nm hunger
<sistpoty> hunger: I meant raphink, sorry
<Riddell> siretart: could REVU handle UniverseCandidates?
<siretart> Riddell: what do you exactly mean with that?
<ogra> Riddell, didnt we talk about RT for UniverseCandidates ?
<Riddell> ogra: RT?
<siretart> ogra: RT?
<Riddell> siretart: just that it's a large database which might be nicer in a database rather than a big wiki page
<ogra> request tracker
<ogra> a oss ticket system ...
<siretart> ogra: canonical rt or an extra rt for universe?
<ogra> we talked about it in serveral motu meetings
<siretart> ogra: do you have experience with installing and maintaining a rt setup?
<ogra> siretart, since the traffic wont be much i thought we could have it on tiber ?
<ogra> nope, but its easy, i sadly havent got the time for much universe work ...
<siretart> well, I had a look at that a few years ago
<siretart> if someone feels like seting one up on tiber, I don't mind
<siretart> Riddell: now I understand. I think that should make much trouble in revu2, but I'm still at fiddling with the ground work for revu2
<siretart> Riddell: I'm not going to invest much time and energy in the old revu1 codebase
<Riddell> no, it would be for revu 2
<siretart> for revu2, that is a good suggestions. thanks
<Riddell> revu 2 should have tags for different teams, so I can see only Kubuntu related packages
<siretart> hm
<siretart> tagging.. hmmhmm
<siretart> how should that work? maintaining an override database?
<siretart> or let the users tag their packages?
<ogra> and how do you manage overlaps ?
<ogra> i.e. kdeedu is edubuntu as well as kubuntu
<siretart> not at all? ;)
<siretart> honestly, I did not plan to have 'tags' on uploads. but the new ui will make the process more clear and efficent anyway, so I don't think there would be a need for that
<Riddell> siretart: just tag through the web interface, multiple tags can be selected for kubuntu and edubuntu etc
<sistpoty> Riddell, siretart: tagging is not an initial plan... and actually I don't want to overload revu2 with features at this moment...
<siretart> sistpoty: right
<sistpoty> Riddell: once revu2 is actually working, we can still (and much easier than with revu1's codebase) add such things
<Riddell> aye
<siretart> it shouldn't be that hard to extend the database to hold those tags
<sistpoty> I don't think so ;)
<[splinux] > hi all
<siretart> hi jdong_
<jdong_> hey
<jdong_> Any timeline for FreeNX/Universe?
<ogra> jdong_, dunno if Mithrandir still cares for it ...
<jdong_> I was told that a FreeNX god joined MOTU at UBZ....
<jdong_> this morning on ubuntu-backports
<ogra> yes ...
<jdong_> so is he gonna accelerate the process of FreeNX in MOTU?
<ogra> i would rather call him a  NX Contributor, dunno about his god status :)
<jdong_> lol, whatever :)
<jdong_> more godly than me
<jdong_> (though that isn't hard to do)
<geekitus> hi all
<zakame> hmm, setting --build= and --host= to i486-pc-linux-gnu is bogging down my i686 machine :/
<jdong_> really?
<zakame> yes, building libcommoncpp2 here is taking ages with that... just modified debian/rules to build without setting those opts, now builds FAST
<siretart> lucas: progress on packaging?
<lucas> no, still in the lab
<lucas> I'll work on this tonight
<lucas> [17:03:19]  here
<siretart> oh. okay
<siretart> same for me
<siretart> germany and france share the same timezone ;)
<zakame> can somebody please check Malone #4093 , libcommoncpp2 merge? thanks in advance :)
<Ubugtu`> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<Nafallo> zakame: yes
<Nafallo> zakame: could you please merge the changelog aswell?
<zakame> Nafallo: hmm, seems I need to edit the changelog a bit, there was some duplication
<Nafallo> zakame: rather you didn't put in the ubuntu changes in the right order :-)
<Nafallo> zakame: baah, I can do it btw.
<zakame> Nafallo: yes, but actually it's already there in the earlier merge, prolly in debian.patch
<Nafallo> one of them yes.
<Nafallo> anyway, I fixed the changelog :-)
<Nafallo> giving it to pbuilder to chew on now :-)
<zakame> yeah, the one from 1.3.10-3ubuntu1 :)  my thanks again :D
<zakame> hihi, pbuilder love
<Nafallo> hmm, the build-logs haven't been updated for awhile :-/
<zakame> waah
<Nafallo> and I haven't got mail to dapper-changes about my syncs
<zakame> hmmm
<Nafallo> uploading anyway
<zakame> so I suppose I no longer need to upload the updated debdiff? :)
<Nafallo> indeed
<zakame> hehe :) again, many thanks
<zakame> good night all :D
<siretart> lucas: \sh_away: I worked more on my motu-tools branch. please merge from my place
<lucas> you place ?
<lucas> your place ?
<siretart> http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools
<siretart> ogra_: do you have a minute?
<ogra_> sure
<siretart> ogra_: could you please upload this for me: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/main/
<siretart> ogra_: mdz is okay with that change, and I'm not in the main keyring yet
<ogra_> if the changelog is right, i'm fine with uploading
<siretart> thanks
<siretart> cu later
<xerxas> how do I switch to dapper ? sed 's/breezy/dapper/g' on sources.list ?
<slomo> yes
<xerxas> can I install breeezy from a running system ?
<xerxas> let say with debootstrap ?
<slomo> yes but it's probably not that easy ;)
<xerxas> why so  ?
<Amaranth> you have to do it in a chroot
<xerxas> Amaranth, chroot where 
<xerxas> ?
<Amaranth> http://www.underhanded.org/papers/debian-conversion/remotedeb.html
<xerxas> sudo debootstrap --arch i386 dapper /media/hda2/ http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu dapper
<xerxas> not tested but supposed to do the whole thing
<xerxas> then I'll run base-config at that will do the job probably
<azeem> --variant=buildd should be enough
<xerxas> (maybe vi /etc/fstab)
<azeem> for usage with sbuild or pbuilder, I guess
<Nafallo> remove the last dapper probably
<xerxas> Nafallo, you're probablt right
<lfittl> Short packaging question: should I rename the source package if there is already a source package with the same name? (binary names are different..)
<ogra> nope, you should use this source package instead of doubling the amount of sources in the archive ;)
<azeem> lfittl: is it a different program with the same name?
<lfittl> azeem: yep ;)
<lfittl> libloki & loki
<azeem> well, I believe you cannot have another source package with the same name as an existing one
<lfittl> k, thanks
<ogra> is this the biology thing ?
<azeem> was bddebian at UBZ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> not to my knowledge
<azeem> hrm, did he drop off the net?
* azeem hasn't seen him around lately
<ogra> seems like... havent seen him since before ubz
<lfittl> ogra: yep, but the package I am working on is libloki, because the version in universe is really outdated..
<ogra> so rather get it updated then ;)
<ogra> is there a newer one in debian we could sync by chance ?
<lfittl> no :/
<ogra> to bad
<ogra> then just work on it as a replacement, try to base it on the existing package
<lfittl> that's what i'm doing, the only thing I was not sure about was the source package name ;)
<ogra> keep it so it gets superseded
<ogra> ...by a new version
<lfittl> ogra: do you have time to review the package on revu?
<ogra> not right now, sorry
<lfittl> k, no problem ;)
<Nafallo> hmm
* Nafallo hopes the mom-merged version of tightvnc is the right decision.
<Nafallo> ogra: care to make an extra check on that decision? :-/
<ogra> how much changes are there to the debian version ?
<ogra> did you try the debian one ?
<Nafallo> yea, but the change are one of daniels. to include the correct dir to the x-fonts.
<Nafallo> I have no idea how to test that or what the symptoms are really.
<Nafallo> ubuntu #16481
<Nafallo> Ubugtu`: bugzilla #16481
<Ubugtu`> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Ubuntu Bugzilla bugzilla: Connection to Ubuntu Bugzilla bugzilla failed: Connection timed out.
<Ubugtu`> Show a link to a bug report with a brief description
<Nafallo> oh. seems easy enough to test.
<Nafallo> nm me ;-)
<slomo> hm, rosetta is evil :( it doesn't include copyright, author, etc of new .po files...
<jamessan|work> what type of bot is Ubugtu`?
<Nafallo> jamessan: a non-working one :-)
<jamessan|work> Nafallo: heh, but is it a custom one or is it based off one of the well-known bots?
<Nafallo> ah, ask Seveas.
<jamessan|work> a /whois didn't give much info
<sistpoty> grml... ghc6 rejected to build :(
<Tonio_> hi
<jamessan|work> Seveas: I'm told you're the one I should talk to about what type of bot Ubugtu` is  :)
<Tonio_> little question
<Seveas> Ubugtu`, is a supybot
<jamessan|work> sweet :)
<Tonio_> are there any reasons that there is no freenx package at the moment ?
<Seveas> they're not good enough for Xorg 7 yet
<jamessan|work> Seveas: is that the original bugzilla plugin it's using or did you write your own?
<Seveas> I have working packages in my personal repository, but these contain workarounds to make them work with xorg 7
<Seveas> jamessan, a heavily hacked up bugzilla plugin that now supports malone too and is in desperate need of a rewrite (ehich is halfway done)
<Tonio_> Seveas: it is still optimised for xfree ?
<Seveas> Tonio_, it is designed to work with the non-modular X
<Tonio_> Seveas: okay
<Tonio_> Seveas: thanks for the explanation
<jamessan|work> Seveas: cool.  when you finish the rewrite, I could include it with the supybot-plugins tarball we distribute.  the old plugin never made the 0.83 transition
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<Seveas> jamessan, are you the supybot maintainer?
<Seveas> jamessan|work*
<jamessan|work> I'm the upstream, yes.  Been rather inactive lately, unfortunately.  just small bug-fixes
<Seveas> k, good to know :)
* hunger uploaded a new version of his xen debs to revu.
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> the mailing-lists will be delivered later or something?
<hunger> join #ubuntu-devel
<[splinux] > hi all , how can i do for upload my package ?
<dholbach> [splinux] : what are you trying to do?
<hunger_> Sorry, lost my connection.
<azeem> Riddell: The award was called
<azeem> args
* Riddell awaits his award
<azeem> 'best Debian Derivate', so it's no wonder Debian didn't get a mention
<Riddell> the award did seem kinday custom made for Ubuntu
<hunger_> Mest Debian Derivate sounds a lot like "We want to give a award to ubuntu... what could we call the category?
<azeem> yeah, it is strange they only had 'Best Enterprise Distribution' as alternative
<hunger_> azeem:  ... where SuSE won!
<Nafallo> PRE-dapper ;-)
<azeem> Riddell: Debian won the 'Best distribution' awawrd in 2002 and 2003, Skolelinux/debian-edu won last year
<azeem> and IIRC most of the other places have been seized by Debian derivates in the last years as well
<azeem> so I guess they just decided to rename the category, reflecting reality
<hunger_> Pazzo: Konqueror does waste so much memory or so it seems.
<hunger_> Pazzo: Haven't restarted it in weeks:-)
<hub> hi
<hub> I get more and more request for my hugin package still waiting on REVU
<dholbach> hub: isn't it just a license issue now?
<dholbach> "just"
<hub> dholbach: I clarified it
<hub> dholbach: that's what I was asked
<dholbach> hub: gave my ok
<hub> thx
<lfittl> dholbach: Do you have some time to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=938?
<LaserJock> does anybody know the difference between vim-gnome and vim-gtk?
<dholbach> lfittl: i was just about to leave - i'll add it to my list
<lfittl> dholbach: ok thanks
<dholbach> lfittl: i'll do it tomorrow
<lfittl> dholbach: perfect :)
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> see you around
<bmonty_laptop> siretart: can you please nuke gphpedit from REVU?
<bmonty_laptop> bzflag also
<lfittl> dholbach: perfect :)
<lfittl> argh
<lfittl> sry
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: do you want gphpedit/bzflag nuked? then they're gone forever from the revu db
<bmonty_laptop> sistpoty: yeah, there isn't much point in having them there because they will be synched (bzflag is already done)
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: ok, will do
<bmonty_laptop> thanks
<siretart> oh, I already did
<siretart> hi sistpoty, huhu bmonty_laptop :)
<siretart> just returned home
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<siretart> and figured out how to do a basic config with whereami. cool crack, btw ;)
<sistpoty> siretart: maybe you didn't nuke all uploads of bzflag/gpphpedit... i just nuked them as well ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: ooh, I remember, the nuke link just nukes that upid
<sistpoty> yep
<bmonty_laptop> where is the nuke link?
<siretart> sistpoty: perhaps we should hack something so that it nukes all corresponding uploads recusivly
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: you need to be admin for revu to do this
<siretart> bmonty_laptop: sorry, admins only
<bmonty_laptop> ahhh
<sistpoty> siretart: maybe we should... at least for revu2 ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: yepp.
<Nafallo> admins + uploader would be better IMO :-)
<sistpoty> sure thing, Nafallo ;)
<sistpoty> just a very stupid shell-scripting question: how can i do a tail +<n> properly? (i.e. skip the first <n> lines and output the rest)
<sistpoty> (ghc6 ftbfs from this, because newest dapper tail doesn't support tail +n any longer :(
<siretart> thats strange. why doesnt dapper tail +n dropped support for that?
<azeem> sistpoty: that got reverted in Debian since
<azeem> * [99]  Revert change to POSIX version override (I forgot about +n usage)
<azeem>      I once again *strongly* urge people to convert to more portable syntax.
<azeem>      (search NEWS for POSIX 1003.1-2001)
<azeem>      (Closes: #339085)
<siretart> you could work around with awk, but thats a bit ugly..
<azeem> (I think)
<minghua> sistpoty: I have a question about your MoM pages
<minghua> sistpoty: I've decided to take grace and grace6
<minghua> sistpoty: I filed malone bug, assigned to MOTU merge team, but it still shown as "new" on your page, not "accpeted" as I expect it to be
<sistpoty> minghua: mom, I'll take a look at the bugs
<Nafallo> ubuntu-universe-bugs haven't got updated yet.
<Nafallo> the page uses that one to check for status :-)
<hub> LaserJock: vim-gnome depend on gnome
<hub> LaserJock: gvim-gtk just on gtk
<minghua> sistpoty: It's bug #4400 and #4403, thanks
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4400: grace6: merge new debian version Fix req. for: grace6 (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4400
<sistpoty> Nafallo: no, there are bugs in my inbox... just wondering why this didn't work
<Nafallo> sistpoty: oh? against what source was the last bug?
<sistpoty> grace and grace6... and my script produces the fine output "there was s.th. wrong" :(
<sistpoty> lol
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> only my mail-server that has a big delay?
<Nafallo> (just got bug 4540 in my mailbox)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4540: gnomebaker percentage done is negative Fix req. for: gnomebaker (Ubuntu), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4540
<tseng> xerxas: what are you trying to do?
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: can you please take a look at Malone #4550
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<sistpoty> minghua: you changed the assignee by the web-tool? seems like no mail regarding a change of bugstate has come to universe-bugs-list. Since I need this to find out if a merge should be marked as fixed, my script bails out...
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: O'm on it :-)
<Nafallo> s/O/I/
<bmonty_laptop> thanks :)
<sistpoty> minghua: I'll try setting bug-status for grace in malone from new to accepted, and check if s.th. changes...
<sistpoty> minghua: I'll also fix the script ;)
<minghua> sistpoty: yes, I used the web-tool, no time to play bazaar yet
<minghua> sistpoty: but there _is_ a mail about status change to universe-bugs list, http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/universe-bugs/2005-November/002856.html
<minghua> sistpoty: there is no mail about the bug get filed
<minghua> sistpoty: or are you talking about something else by universe-bugs-list?
<sistpoty> minghua: actually the exact thing that's missing is a mail with s.th. like "Status (New) => Accepted" or "Status: new"...
<sistpoty> minghua: but i just fixed the script, so that a team-assignment will also update the MoM-database ;)
<sistpoty> minghua: thx for noting this ;)
<minghua> I see.  So it seems I'm the only one using web-tool now? :-)
<minghua> sistpoty: sure, thank you for fixing it so fast :-)
<Nafallo> yepp :-)
<sistpoty> minghua: n.p.... I know the regexp from the script ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-22
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: finally uploaded. don't know what's with my upload bandwidth :-P.
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: I noticed that uim maintainer dropped the pm-dev build dependency.  Thanks for pushing this. :-)
<bmonty_laptop> minghua: no problem
<siretart> gn8 folks!
<bmonty_laptop> I just pointed out to him that there was no source file in the package that used the header file pm-dev provided
<sistpoty> gn8 siretart
<bmonty_laptop> bye siretart
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: thanks
<minghua> sistpoty: good night
<minghua> oops, good night to siretart
<minghua> hmm, irssi sees to have different nick auto-completion than others
<minghua> s/sees/seems/
<Kyral> Hey guys, does anyone know of a problem with the Build-Essential package in Breezy?
<Nafallo> there is no problems? :-)
<crimsun> in breezy? there's no problem
<Kyral> There is it seems
<tseng> WFM
<Kyral> Either this guy I was helping on the Forums
<tseng> but please tell ask us instead of asking to ask
<Kyral> really really screwed up
<Kyral> WFM?
<crimsun> I'm going to go out on a short limb and say that guy screwed his own sources.list
<tseng> Works For Me (And Everyone Else But You) TM
<Kyral> tseng, I can't tell people on the UbuntuForums that
<crimsun> but you can help him troubleshoot his sources.list, because that's obviously where it started
<Kyral> Which I have tried
<Kyral> We commented out anything that looked sketchy (which was basically the PLF repo)
<crimsun> oh geez
<crimsun> comment out everything that isn't *.archive.ubuntu.com
<Kyral> we did
<Kyral> the PLF repo was the only sketchy thing
<crimsun> then forcibly remove/downgrade everything to stock breezy
<Kyral> -f install should do that correct?
<crimsun> no, you need to use apt-pinning
<crimsun> pin-priority >1000 the breezy repo
<Kyral> I'll look into it
<crimsun> then dist-upgrade
<crimsun> people get all sorts of random fsckedness when they use external repos
<Kyral> but anything from the PLF repo shouldn't interfere with build-essiential right? (I'm not familier with the PLF repo)
<crimsun> I have never touched PLF, so I have no idea
<Kyral> Its basically the storehouse for things like w32codecs it seems
<Nafallo> ouch
<Kyral> heck its in that Script-O-Matic that someone whipped up
<Nafallo> an illegal repo.
<Kyral> yah no kiddin'
<tseng> yeah it sounds alot like BreakMyGentoo
<Kyral> I don't touch it
<Kyral> I advise against it whenever I see it, so I don't have to fix it later
<tseng> i can only find a mandrake plf
<tseng> besides the obvious terror organization
<tseng> pretty disingenuous to name yourself after them
<Kyral> deb http://antesis.freecontrib.org/mirrors/ubuntu/plf/ breezy free non-free <--The line in question
<Nafallo> hehe
<Kyral> its commented out
<tseng> "free"
<tseng> its not even available
<Nafallo> in this case it might not be a bad name it seems :-P
<Kyral> Yah its down now, seems like a recent turn
<LaserJock> I think plf is the backports-extra replacement
<Kyral> hey LJ
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<Kyral> FlowDesigner devs haven't emailed me back about the problems with libflow
<LaserJock> Kyral: hmm, I didn't know you were having a problem
<Kyral> It builds, but lintain complains like CRAZY about somethings
<bmonty_laptop> Hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> Kyral: the NMU stuff?
<LaserJock> Hi bmonty_laptop
<Kyral> LaserJock, no
<Kyral> libflow.so is in the wrong place, and its causing Lintain to throw fits
<LaserJock> Kyral: oh, ok. and it's something that requires upstream to fix?
<Kyral> yah it requires messing with the source
<LaserJock> Kyral: seems like they were pretty eager to help so hopefully you will hear from them soon
<LaserJock> I am currently working on a script similar to lucas's to show us the Ubuntu and Debian version of source packages in the math, science, and tex sections
<lucas> LaserJock: what do you mean "script similar to mine" ?
<lucas> maybe you can explain why mine didn't work for you, so I can improve it instead :)
<LaserJock> lucas: well, it gets the package name, version, and section and will hopefully create a .html similar to yours
<LaserJock> lucas: well, what I am trying to do is sort by section
<lucas> ah
<LaserJock> lucas: and learn python along the way
<LaserJock> what I got so far is at http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4649
<LaserJock> but I am getting stuck because it appears that 12 source packages in Ubuntu don't have "Section:" in them
<Nafallo> LaserJock: fix them? compare to Debian?
<LaserJock> Nafallo: well, I have to figure out how to tell which ones are the problem
<Nafallo> hm, true
<LaserJock> Nafallo: And I don't have enough scripting knowledge to figure it out yet
<Nafallo> can't you just output two lists (one with everything except the faulty ones and one with everything) and diff? :-)
<lucas> arg
<lucas> got disconnected just when I was answering
<lucas> [00:58:04]  <LaserJock> lucas: and learn python along the way
<lucas> [00:58:32]  <lucas> you just have to change pkglist_from_rdepends.bash by your pkglist_from_section.bash
<lucas> [00:58:59]  <lucas> if you do that, you can you all my other scripts
<lucas> [01:02:17]  <lucas> grep-dctrl -F section 'math' -o -F section 'science' -o -F section 'tex' -ns Package /var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.oleane.net_debian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages
<lucas> [01:02:43]  <lucas> this does your "get all binary packages with section in ('math', 'science', 'tex')
<lucas> did I miss sthing ?
<LaserJock> lucas: interesting, I'm not sure what to think. I started this before I learned of you script and I wanted to do everything in Python
<lucas> LaserJock: I think the best way to deal with that is with small shell scripts that do one thing and do it well
<lucas> because everybody has different needs
<sistpoty> good night everybody
<LaserJock> right, this was for my own internal consumption though. I don't plan on replacing anything of yours
<lucas> LaserJock: but still, you can rewrite some of my own scripts in python
<chx> hi. is there a fresh bzr package somewhere? 0.1.1-0ubuntu1 is ancient
<ogra> chx, deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/snapshot/bzr/ ./
<ogra> (thats dapper though)
<chx> dapper... will that bzr install then without wanting to upgrade all python packages?
<chx> oh it works
<zakame> morning all :)
<zakame> wb LaserJock
<LaserJock> zakame: thanks, had dinner and made it home. now I can relax ;-)
<zakame> good for you :)
<Kyral> I love the COSI
<zakame> COSI?
<Kyral> the Clarkson Open Source Institute
<Kyral> cosi.clarkson.edu
<Kyral> Also keeps an Ubuntu Mirror :D
<LaserJock> does anybody here use vim?
<Kyral> hsss boo! ;P
<LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, yeah I know
<LaserJock> I can't figure out how to do a search&replace
<tseng> :s/foo/bar
<tseng> vimtutor, lesson 4.4
<LaserJock> tseng: hmm, all I get is "pattern not found". I can just do a search and it works fine
<tseng> yes, read the doc please
<LaserJock> tseng: thanks, weird, but it works
<tseng> its not that weird
<tseng> very similar to sed or any other regex
<LaserJock> tseng: it just seems weird to me that I have to select all the text before I can do a replace
<LaserJock> but I'm just learning vi so maybe my mind isn't wraped around it yet
<tseng>      Type   :%s/old/new/g    to change every occurrence in the whole file.
<tseng> i dont see *anything* about selecting text
<LaserJock> well, that is what was in vimtutor lesson 4.4 I thought
<tseng> no, you move the cursor to the line
<tseng> tip
<tseng> to repeat the replace on another line move the cursor there
<tseng> and press & in normal mode
<LaserJock> cool
<minghua> tseng: nice tip
<jbailey> chillywilly: I added dyfet to the Ubuntu marketplace earlier.
<jbailey> He's interested in hacking on Bayonne in Ubuntu. =)
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<tritium> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> tritium: been staying busy?
<tritium> LaserJock: yes, putting in long hours at work, and many projects around the house (repairs after renting it out while in grad. school).  You?
<tritium> LaserJock: and today, this Canonical laptop's hard drive died
<LaserJock> tritium: about the same. I have been trying to landscape the back yard a bit. Are you at sandia?
<tritium> LaserJock: yes, how did you know?
<LaserJock> tritium: don't remember. I think you said one time here. I visited Sandia at Livermore once
<LaserJock> tritium: my lab has a collaboration there
<tritium> LaserJock: oh, okay.  Cool.
<LaserJock> tritium: your Sandia is much bigger isn't it?
<tritium> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> tritium: I have thought about doing a post doc at a national lab but I don't know if I could get used to all the security
<tritium> LaserJock: it takes some getting used to
<LaserJock> tritium: when I was a Sandia-Livermore (not  sure what it is called) it took a repair man over 2 hrs to get throught the gate because they had to take every piece of equipment out of his service truck and check it out
<tritium> LaserJock: not surprising
<LaserJock> tritium: but the pay seemed better than an academic postdoc ;-)
<tritium> yes
<LaserJock> Kyral: ping?
<Kyral> PONG!
<Kyral> sup
<LaserJock> Kyral: I am trying to set up a couple different pbuilders.
<Kyral> yah...I gotta get to appending the PBuilderHowto don't I
<LaserJock> Kyral: I am unsure of how to seperate the pbuilderrc files. It seems to alway look for ~/.pbuilderrc
<Kyral> thats just a pain in the arse
<LaserJock> no matter what I put for --configfile
<Kyral> Yah it gives me that warning too
<Kyral> but it still abides by the configfile I give
<LaserJock> so I can ignore it?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> Its just a warning not an error
<LaserJock> ah, ok
<Kyral> Actually I have to go update my Pbuilders
<Kyral> 1 alias for 6 commands
<Kyral> Ubuntu Breezy, Ubuntu Dapper, Debian Sid, Debian Sarge, Debian Etch
<Kyral> Anyone know if Emacs has a function to link a file you are working on to one on a remote server and upload the file to the remote server when you save it?
<Kyral> Or do I get the honor of writing this plugin :D
<LaserJock> Kyral: do you have a minute to help me with my pbuilders?
<Kyral> yah
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok, I think I got breezy and dapper ok, but now I want a sid pbuilder
<Kyral> Oh LJ, when are we gonna start working on the Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
<Kyral> LJ you are gonna have to create a Sarge PBuilder and upgrade that oen
<crimsun> LaserJock: so either specify sid lines in your pbuilder config's sources.list, or pass the distribution explicitly to pbuilder
<LaserJock> Kyral: hmm, well that is kinda up in the air right now. I was supposed to get Unfrgiven's guide but I haven't heard from him in a while
<LaserJock> so do I need sources.list files for each distro?
<Kyral> I just make separate apt.configs
<minghua> sid is usually not debootstrapable though
<Kyral> thats what I do, and I find it very easy to manage everything
<Kyral> thats why I said make a Sarge PBuilder and upgrade it
<crimsun> for maintainability I'd say it's a good idea but don't necessary _have_ to have them for bootstrapping
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok, that is what I have. and also seperate pbuilderrc's?
<crimsun> right, sid is like dapper in that sense
<minghua> and now is really a bad time to build stuff in sid, due to the C++ ABI change
<crimsun> yeah on multiple fronts :-)
<LaserJock> I am confused because it seems pbuilder looks at /etc/pbuilderrc, ~/.pbuilderrc, and my own ~/.pbuilder/distro/pbuilderrc files
<Kyral> Unless you override with --configfile
<LaserJock> Kyral: well I had to change /etc/pbuilderrc even when I had --configfile. It looked like it was reading both
<Kyral> I just made copies of pbuilderrc for each one
<Kyral> not to mention I flat out deleted the original
<LaserJock> Kyral: I have copies of pbuilderrc for each distro, but I didn't delete the one in /etc
<Kyral> Ironically it somehow symlinked the one in etc to one of my custom pbuilderrcs
<LaserJock> Kyral: It seems that it just doesn't like having multiple .pbuilderrc's laying around
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok, so do I need to make a pbuilderrc for sarge and another pbuilderrc for sid?
<LaserJock> I guess I could just change one pbuilderrc
<crimsun> I have three different pbuilder rcs
<crimsun> ~/.pbuilderrc{.warty,hoary,breezy}
<crimsun> err, four
<crimsun> (the one without an extension in breezy dist-upgraded to dapper)
<Kyral> I keep them in /etc/pbuilder/
<LaserJock> crimsun: do you have a apt.config for each?
<crimsun> LaserJock: separate directories, yes
<crimsun> ~/porting/builder/$foo
<LaserJock> crimsun: ok, that is about what I have. I have ~.pbuilder/{breezy,dapper,sid}/{pbuilderrc, apt.config/}
<LaserJock> hmm, I still don't understand --distribution and --override-config are for when you have --configfile
<Kyral> --override-config is for when you make a change to something in that PBuilder's apt.config
<Kyral> like if you change the Sources.list to use a different mirror
<Kyral> I should code a Space Invaders for Emacs :D
<Kyral> Night all
<zakame> hmm, is libjack0.80.0-dev dropped in dapper?
<crimsun> zakame: yes.
<zakame> crimsun: I see only libjack0.100.0-dev , but linphone build-deps on libjack0.80.0-dev... guess I have to update debian/control...
<crimsun> yes, you do
<zakame> okey thanks :)
<crimsun> we need to do a mini-transition on everything that b-ds on libjack0.80.0-dev | libjack-dev
<crimsun> they need to be explicitly updated to libjack0.100.0-dev
<zakame> dropping the `| libjack-dev' part?
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> we differ a bit from Debian in this regard
<crimsun> We don't have a libjack0.80.0-dev anymore, so we _could_ leave | libjack-dev.
<crimsun> however, the transition in Debian was to explicitly b-d on libjack0.100.0-dev
<crimsun> so we should follow Debian
<zakame> ah, okey :D
<slomo_> hi zakame, hi crimsun :)
<zakame> ei slomo_ :D
<crimsun> hi slomo_, zakame :-)
<zakame> ei crimsun :)
<dholbach> good morning
<slomo_> hi dholbach
<zakame> heya dholbach
<dholbach> hey zakame, slomo_
<mitsuhiko^school> moin
<mitsuhiko^school> can anyone tell my why liblinc isn't available in breezy?
<zakame> hi mitsuhiko^school
<mitsuhiko^school> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/libs/liblinc1 <-- hoary has it
<zakame> wb Nafallo
<mitsuhiko^school> hi zakame
<Nafallo> thanx
<mitsuhiko^school> other packages reference it, but it doesn't exist in breezy
<crimsun> it was removed
<crimsun> notice it's not in Debian either
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<mitsuhiko^school> crimsun: so the only solution is to use the hoary version?
<zakame> hi Gloubiboulga
<crimsun> mitsuhiko^school: no, check if upstream has obsoleted it with a new package
<crimsun> if so, check if it's in the distro
<crimsun> if not, work to NEW it
<mitsuhiko^school> crimsun: where can i check this?
<crimsun> mitsuhiko^school: check what?
<mitsuhiko^school> crimsun: it upstream has obsoleted it
<crimsun> mitsuhiko^school: check upstream's [old]  Web site
<crimsun> debian/copyright should have a url
<mitsuhiko^school> ok. thx
<mitsuhiko^school> crimsun: i can't find a note that this packages is deprecated or something similar :(
<crimsun> mitsuhiko^school: then you will have to use the hoary version.
<mitsuhiko^school> bad news
<lucas> I started working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTools
<lucas> please review & comment & modify etc
<crimsun> mm gdebi->universe possibly
<crimsun> that sounds tasty
<dholbach> :)
<crimsun> morning, dholbach :)
<dholbach> hi crimsun :)
<sivang> morning dholbach
<sivang> (and everyone else)
<crimsun> hi sivang
<zakame> hi siretart
<zakame> and sivang
<Gloubiboulga> Could anyone have a look at my Denemo package on revu ?
<crimsun> (~15 minutes, meeting in progress)
<zakame> can someone please check Malone #4094 and #4095 , linphone and lostirc debdiffs, PendingUpload? thanks in advance :)
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<crimsun> zakame: sure, a few more minutes remaining in the meeting.
<zakame> crimsun: many thanks :)
<crimsun> binutils cvs => new glibc ...
<crimsun> something tells me I had better do a system snapshot TODAY.
<Nafallo> :-)
<slomo_> crimsun: hehe, same thought here ;)
<slomo_> *sigh* every package i choose to merge depends on something in main to be merged first which itself has some problems...
<dholbach> slomo_: i can sponsor you uploads
<slomo_> dholbach: i can't merge the packages because the problems seem to be too hard *shrug* i'll simply do other stuff before ;)
<Nafallo> slomo: what packages?
<dholbach> i just want to offer it to you
<slomo_> dholbach: i know... thanks :)
<dholbach> if there's a problem in main and you (everybody) can fix it, i will gladly sponsor the upload, if that makes things better
<slomo_> Nafallo: gjdoc for example... FTBFS because of ICE
<crimsun> slomo_: out of curiosity, have we seen any movement on binary-promoting libpostproc-dev (from ffmpeg) to universe?
<crimsun> it's holding up a vlc merge
<dholbach> crimsun: was there a main inclusion report?
<Nafallo> ouch
<slomo_> crimsun: no, elmo ignores me except for syncs :(
<crimsun> dholbach: err, afaik ffmpeg source remains in universe with its binary packages being split across universe (libavcodec-dev, libavformat-dev, ffmpeg) and multiverse (libpostproc-dev)
<slomo_> dholbach: one part of it is in multiverse... caused by a mistake
<dholbach> crimsun: oh sorry, i misunderstood, nevermind
<crimsun> dholbach: np
<slomo_> hm, is the dapper kernel built with gcc4? and the sid kernel too?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> Linux version 2.6.15-3-686 (buildd@vernadsky) (gcc version 4.0.3 20051023 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.2-3ubuntu1)) #1 SMP Thu Nov 17 01:14:29 UTC 2005
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Ubuntu Bugzilla bugzilla: not well-formed (invalid token): line 189, column 1
<slomo_> perfect :)
<slomo_> omg
<slomo_> why does a package invoke automake etc in clean?!
<Nafallo> slomo: that was I was wondering when moving them to build ;-)
<crimsun> timestamp skew?
<slomo_> crimsun: yes :/
<slomo_> hmm, where is zakame? :/
<crimsun> his client timed out
<crimsun> about 24 minutes ago, apparently
<\sh> moins
<slomo_> hi \sh :)
<crimsun> moin
<xerxas> hi
<Nafallo> crimsun: are you sponsoring some of those merge-bugs or shall I dig in? :-)
<Riddell> is there a motu bugs e-mail list?
<dholbach> universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com
<viviersf> ajmitch, im having problems with grub again lol
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: have you told elmo to sync all of those ASSIGNED you already verified?
<Nafallo> where is zakame? :-)
<Nafallo> -Architecture: any
<Nafallo> +Architecture: i386 powerpc ia64 amd64 alpha arm mipsel hurd-i386
<Nafallo> ^ that just looks wrong, no?
<Mithrandir> no, it means it's not kfreebsd-i386 for instance.
<Mithrandir> and not m68k
<Nafallo> we don't have that one :-)
<Mithrandir> and not s390
<Nafallo> not those either.
<Mithrandir> we do have hppa, though
<Mithrandir> which is not in the list either
<Nafallo> oh, the inofficals. I always forget about those.
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: I've sent elmo emails on syncing the packages I marked for sync
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: ah, oki.
* Nafallo found IRC to go faster ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: also, I'm assuming you uploaded the falconseye package...I made a mistake and didn't mark it as dapper so it was REJECTED
<bmonty_laptop> I'll upload the new debdiff in a few
<Nafallo> oki
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: I guess I can give him that huge list of packages in IRC :)
<Kyral> Mornin'
<bmonty_laptop> hi Kyral
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: btw, was breezy -> dapper the only mistake? :-)
<Nafallo> unstable even
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: as far as I am aware, yes
<bmonty_laptop> did you find another ?
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: nope, but I can do that change locally ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> ok, I've got the debdiff almost done if you want it
<Nafallo> feel free to upload, but I've already given the fixed version to my pbuilder :-)
<bmonty_laptop> ok, I'll just put it there for completeness :)
<zakame> hi all
<bmonty_laptop> hi zakame
<zakame> hey bmonty_laptop, how's the merge going ? :)
<Nafallo> hi zakame
<bmonty_laptop> the merge is *REALLY* fun...you should help :)
<zakame> hi Nafallo :D thanks for another upload :)
<zakame> bmonty_laptop: hihi, I am on the merging too, even though I'm just on dialup :)
<Nafallo> zakame: no problem :-)
<bmonty_laptop> zakame: ahh, dialup would be a limiting factor
<zakame> bmonty_laptop: yup... nevertheless, its fun though, and I learn as I go :)
<Kyral> dialup is evil
<bmonty_laptop> zakame: same here, the value in doing the merges is touching lots of different packages
<zakame> Kyral: which is why I'm seeking bandwith sponsorship :)
<Kyral> "sponsorship"?
<zakame> bmonty_laptop: indeed, we get to learn how other people and DDs do stuff :)
<Nafallo> damn
<Nafallo> I should have updated Standards-Version on falconseye
<Kyral> I wish I could get the hang of merging
<Kyral> but school is more important right now
<zakame> Kyral: hihi... technically I too should be in (este, on) school right now, but without books, I'm still on sem break ;)
<Kyral> So I'm helping out with insane amounts of support on the Forums
<Kyral> Racked up about 70 posts yesterday I think
<zakame> wow
<Treenaks> all reading 'Dude, STFU & RTFM!' ?
<Treenaks> :P
<zakame> Treenaks: hihi
<Kyral> Hell no
<Kyral> I stabbity anyone that says that
<zakame> Nafallo: can't you re-upload? :)
<Treenaks> Kyral: I tell people to look stuff up in the starter's guide all the time
<Nafallo> zakame: I'm lazy
<Treenaks> Kyral: because I'm not copy/pasting it for them
<zakame> haha
<Kyral> Treenaks, so do I, but I don't exactly tell the to RTFM :P
<Kyral> I do, but in a much nicer way :D
<Treenaks> Kyral: RTFM -> read THIS (specific) F M
<Kyral> Its usually something like "I believe this link will be most helpful" <insert link here>
<Kyral> Anyway I must be off
<zakame> bye Kyral
<Kyral> Need food before class or else I'm like a computer w/o a power supply
<zakame> haha
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bmonty_laptop> hey sistpoty
<zakame> heya sistpoty :)
<sistpoty> ping slomo | siretart | \sh
<Treenaks> ping s* ? :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> actually the pings are or-d... since I need s.o. to upload a package for me (i hope elmo will add my key to the keyring soon)
<zakame> sistpoty: elmo hasn't added you yet?
<sistpoty> zakame: no... but I only asked for it last friday (didn't have to upload anything before)
<zakame> oh
<zakame> Nafallo: can you check my debdiff for linphone too? :)
<Nafallo> zakame: I've almost dput'd it.
<zakame> Nafallo: oh, ok :D
<sistpoty> Nafallo: maybe you could upload s.th. for me?
<Nafallo> sistpoty: sure :-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: cool... ghc6 in http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/uploads/ (orig.tar.gz is already in the archives)
<Nafallo> sistpoty: done :-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: thx :)
<zakame> hmmm, is it safe to have a debdiff like 20051029-1 -> 20051029-2ubuntu1 ?
<sistpoty> zakame: do you mean the version number?
<Nafallo> 20051029-1ubuntu1 probably :-)
<zakame> sistpoty: yes, this is from ion3... though the REPORT tells that the debian version is 20051029-2, from the raw log MoM got only 20051029-1
<Nafallo> ion3 | 20051029-2 | http://localhost unstable/main Sources
<Nafallo> so yes, 20051029-2ubuntu1
<sistpoty> zakame: if the latest debian version is ...-2, then a merged version should be -2ubuntu1... (higher than last debian version, but always below next possible debian version)
<zakame> sistpoty: ok... seems that mom pulled the wrong debian base
<zakame> I also checked the [bcd]  logs and there was no rebuild of it, basing from the morgue
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> grep: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//9902/etc/shadow: No such file or directory
<\sh> /var/cache/pbuilder/build/9902/etc/shadow
<\sh> mv: cannot stat `/var/cache/pbuilder/build/9902/etc/shadow': No such file or directory
<\sh> strange
<\sh> it happend first time now...after I switched to dapper
<Nafallo> \sh: sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login
<Nafallo> \sh: touch /etc/shadow
<sistpoty> ' \sh: i heard last night in devel, that they are working on this ;)
<sistpoty> that's why i don't update my pbuilder currently *g*
<\sh> uh..so it's not a broken pbuilder
<sistpoty> no
<zakame> \sh: I also got that too just recently while pbuilding lighty
<\sh> Nafallo: thx
<Nafallo> np
<zakame> hmm, seems mom's merged.patch for ion3's too much...
<Efwis> hello, I was wondering if you would be interested in having a .deb version of Gnome configurator for the repos?
<Efwis> I already have it made on my comp
<zakame> Efwis: where's this? and what repos?
<Efwis> for Breezy repos
<Efwis> I did the alien command of the rpm it worked fine on my system
<Nafallo> breezy are closed
<Efwis> for 386/686 systems
<Nafallo> we are now in the dapper development cycle
<Amaranth> and we only take source packages
<Efwis> I can get the source for you easy enough
<\sh> Efwis: create a debian package :) and walk the way of a MOTU :)
<Efwis> I already have the debian package for COG
<Efwis> it has everything you need short of the libraries that are needed on the comp
<\sh> Efwis: but you didn't create it with alien, right? u did it manually?
<Efwis> I have the source in front of me know, I just extracted. that is one of the things I want to learn, but I never got an answer dealing with a file
<\sh> Efwis: so now you have to learn something about debhelper and dh_make and debian package building environments
<ogra> Efwis, see the dh_make part of the debian new maintainer guide
<\sh> Efwis: some pointers...first http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources most important link: debian new maintainer guide
<Efwis> show me the way, and I will do my part to help with this great distro. Thius is the first time I used linux but I want to do more then run my bus on it :)
<\sh> Efwis: second: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto (replace all hoary/breezy things with dapper...(if you have dapper running) or update a breezy pbuilder to dapper)
<Amaranth> is wine compiled with gcc 4?
<zakame> at last, ion3 debdiff finished.  can someone please check #4092 debdiff PendingUpload :) thanks in advance
<\sh> Amaranth: the last time I compiled it with gcc4
<Nafallo> zakame: sure
<zakame> Nafallo: you're my hero :D
<Amaranth> \sh: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3852
<Ubugtu`> Wine bug #3852: win.c problem with gcc 4.0.1 / Dreamweaver MX 6.1 Product: Wine, Component: wine-user, Severity: normal, Assigned to: wine-bugs@winehq.org, Status: UNCONFIRMED http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3852
<Amaranth> whoa, me likey Ubugtu`
<Nafallo> bug 4092
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #4092: ion3: merge new debian version Fix req. for: ion3 (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4092
<zakame> wow, Ubugtu` 's doing good
<\sh> Amaranth: we have a different version...20050725
<\sh> Amaranth: and write them..they should use quanta, or scream or bluefish...so they don't need to buy a coffee machine for their webdevelopment ,)
* Nafallo kills the build and changes unstable to dapper for zakame
<zakame> Nafallo: whoa, forgot that, sorry :(
<zakame> it was a new debdiff, I should fix my emacs to default the distro to dapper
<Nafallo> dch works for me :-(
<Nafallo> :-) even
<zakame> actually dch calls gnuclient, which runs debian-changelog-mode
<zakame> hmmm one can't delete attachments in lp?
<Nafallo> zakame: ion3 uploading.
<zakame> Nafallo: salamat :)
* Nafallo blinks
<Nafallo> what's that? something eatable? :-)
<zakame> it's `thanks' :)
<Nafallo> oki :-). np.
<hunger_> If some aspect of a deb does not work without some other deb installed, is that a recommends or a depends?
<Treenaks> hunger_: some aspect, or all of it?
<hunger_> A user might configure the first deb to work without the second.
<hunger_> The default config assumes the second deb to be there though.
<zakame> hunger_: hmm, that could be a Suggests
<zakame> hunger_: if the second deb provides functions that are desirable and enhances the first deb, then you could put that up as a Recommends iirc
<sistpoty> hunger_: looks like a recommends to me... see debian-policy (section 7.2)
<hunger_> zakame, sistpoty: Thanks!
<zakame> hunger_: np ;-)
<Efwis> quick question if I may, do need to download and install dapper. When I went to build the pbuilder file it said it couldn't find /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/dapper
<zakame> Efwis: DebootstrapHowto
<Efwis> thanks
<marc_> I'm getting issues atm trying to download updates from the repo
<marc_> getting error 100's
<zakame> Efwis: oops, it's DebootstrapChroot
<Efwis> ok, sorry if I'm asking too many questions but this is the only way so far that I have found to be able to assit in the dev of Ubuntu
<ogra> i think using PbuilderHowto is better ...
<ogra> just install a breezy pbuilder and upppppppppppgrade that to daper
<ogra> whoops... kbd error
<zakame> ogra: I agree :)
<Efwis> I did that it said I needed the dapper debstrap
<Efwis> dang keyboard, be glad when i get my new one
<ogra> Efwis, nope, install it for breezy ... then follow the last steps in the howto for upgrading to dapper
<Efwis> ok ty
<\sh> Efwis: do pbuilder --create --distribution breezy...then update your pbuilders sources.list to dapper and pbuilder update
<marc_> is anyone geting issues with the dapper repo's?
<Efwis> thanks. working on that now
<bmonty_laptop> Efwis: once you have a breezy pbuilder installed and working, open /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/sources.list and change all the "breezy" to "dapper"
<zakame> marc_: what's your mirror?
<marc_> archive.ubuntu.com
<marc_> I'm getting Sub-process gzip returned an error code (100)
<zakame> hmmm... is this due to an apt-get update?
<marc_> possibly
<bmonty_laptop> anyone use a thinkpad and the ipw2200 module?
<zakame> Nafallo: last request for tonight: bug 4096 meld debdiff PendingUpload :) thanks ulit :D
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #4096: meld: merge new debian version Fix req. for: meld (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4096
<siretart> sistpoty: whassup?
<Nafallo> zakame: our meld looks newer?
<Nafallo> meld | 1.1.2-0ubuntu1 | http://localhost dapper/universe Sources
<Nafallo> meld |    1.1.1-2 | http://localhost unstable/main Sources
<zakame> hmmm, indeed, it's newer, don't tell me mom borked again on this :(
<zakame> ok, lemme re-debdiff on the new source
<sistpoty> siretart: unping (i just wanted you to upload a package... but Nafallo already did)
<siretart> sistpoty: okay
<Nafallo> zakame: why? we are already newer then Debian. no need to merge.
<zakame> Nafallo: ah, ok. nothing to be done then, yay! :D
<sivang> Treenaks: omg, this is scary http://foodfight.org/about-me :)
<Kmirno> Hello
<dholbach> Nafallo: we need to merge changes debian made
<Kmirno> siretart: Hi ! (it's Mirno)
<zakame> so I'll just reject 4096 then?
<dholbach> Nafallo: the version number doesn't ensure we merged all changes
<zakame> dholbach: good point
<Kmirno> Does anybody know the Liscence of Opera ?
<Kmirno> is it freely distribuable ?
<Kmirno> zakame: heya
<Kmirno> dholbach: plop
<zakame> Kmirno: ei :D
<dholbach> Kmirno: hi
<zakame> Kmirno: what's up with opera?
<Kmirno> zakame: i'd liek to know If I should accept Opera in PLF or you gonna get in MOTU really soon ?
<siretart> huhu Kmirno
<zakame> plf?
<siretart> Kmirno: the problem is, that I did not find any redistribution statment of opera
<Kmirno> siretart: I'd neither
<Tonio_> hi
<Nafallo> dholbach: hmm, right. and it seems you either made a typo on the version number or you didn't wrote you took a new upstream version ;-).
<Tonio_> hi siretart dholbach
<siretart> Kmirno: if there is none, the legal situation is unclear, and I doubt the ftpmasters would accept this
<Kmirno> siretart: it looks like this gonna take ages to get in motu if it ever will.  Do you have objections if I add it to PLF ?
<zakame> ei Tonio_
<dholbach> Nafallo: look at the changelog
<siretart> Kmirno: wait. I'll ask in #ubuntu-devel if there are some effords
<Nafallo> dholbach: oh. missed that line, sorry :-). you based your version against what debian has now anyway :-)
<zakame> Nafallo: ok, I'll build a new merge then, reminding to myself I set dapper, not unstable :)
<dholbach> Nafallo: yes :)
<Nafallo> zakame: no need. dholbach already did the merge it seems ;-).
<Kmirno> siretart: ok
<Tonio_> zakame: ;)
<Nafallo> zakame: http://packages.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/m/meld/meld_1.1.2-0ubuntu1/changelog
<zakame> Nafallo: ah ok :) so I close 4096 as fixed then...
<Nafallo> zakame: sure.
<zakame> Nafallo, dholbach: very well then. :D many, many thanks again! :D
<zakame> and good night all!
<Nafallo> gnight :-)
<bmonty_laptop> good night Nafallo
<dholbach> night zakame
<bmonty_laptop> er...zakame....guess I should read back further :)
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: not me, zakame :-)
* Nafallo jumps in the shower instead ;-)
<sistpoty> siretart: can you upload childsplay for me? (orig-tarball needed). see ~sistpoty/public_html/uploads
<siretart> sistpoty: I'm currently at work, I cannot access my gpg key conviniently
<sistpoty> siretart: ok, I'll ask s.o. else then ;)
<siretart> sorry
<sistpoty> np siretart
<sistpoty> dholbach: would you mind uploading a package for me?
<dholbach> sistpoty: not at all
<sistpoty> dholbach: if you have access to tiber, it's in ~sistpoty/public_html/uploads
<sistpoty> dholbach: otherwise: http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/uploads/
<sistpoty> dholbach: the package in question is childsplay... orig.tar.gz needed
<dholbach> orig.tar.gz from where?
<dholbach> debian? ours?
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> sorry :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<Efwis> hmm, does it usually take this long to check the components on main?
<ogra> devootstrap ?
<ogra> *deb
<Efwis> I had to rebuild the pbuilderrc package, I goofed up the first time
<ogra> yes, it does take quite some time
<Efwis> ok
<Efwis> glad I'm not doing this on dial-up lol
<Kmirno> siretart: okay then I'll come back later to see what you decide for opera
<Tonio_> siretart, dholbach : here is the multiple licence sitribution agreement
<Tonio_> http://composer.opera.com/composer3/agreement.dml
<dholbach> sistpoty: done
<siretart> Tonio_: thanks for the link
<siretart> shit, that late, I need to go now
<siretart> cu tomrrow folks!
<sistpoty> dholbach: thx
<sistpoty> cya siretart
<Tonio_> siretart: no pb
<Kmirno> Tonio_: ping
<Kmirno> siretart: hi
<Kmirno> siretart: did you see this ? http://composer.opera.com/composer3/agreement.dml
<sistpoty> Kmirno: siretart is off since ~20 mins... but he already knows about this
<Kmirno> sistpoty: what did he say about it ?
<Kmirno> sistpoty: MOTU or PLF ? :)
<Nafallo> sistpoty: did you get everything uploaded?
<sistpoty> Nafallo: till now yes :)
<sistpoty> Kmirno: he said he needed to go then ;) (he didn't say anything bout opera license)
<Nafallo> :-)
<sistpoty> Kmirno: what do mean with MOTU or PLF?
<Kmirno> sistpoty: MOTU is here Universe/Multiverse repositories. PLF are the Ubuntu PLF repositories
<Kmirno> sistpoty: Never heard of PLF ?
<Kmirno> sistpoty: http://wiki.ubuntu-fr/doc/plf (english page)
<pef> hello !
<Kmirno> pef: heya
<sistpoty> Kmirno: nope, haven't heard of it (and the link doesn't work)
<sistpoty> Kmirno: ok, found link *G*
<Kmirno> sistpoty: sorry forgot to ad ".org" to the domain LOL
<sistpoty> ok, gotta go as well... cya later
<Gloubiboulga> hi
<pef> Gloubiboulga: heya :)
<Gloubiboulga> pef: salut !
<Riddell> am I right in thinking you need your gpg key signed by a known person before you can upload to ubuntu?
<dholbach> somebody in the closelyconnected set
<splinux> hi all
<xerxas> does anybody knows I have this in /etc/fstab:
<xerxas> /tmp/app/1/image /tmp/app/1 cramfs,iso9660 user,noauto,ro,loop,exec 0 0
<xerxas> is it in the initrd ?
<xerxas> or is it supposed to be an inirtd file ?
<crimsun> Nafallo: feel free to dig in :-)
<Nafallo> crimsun: already did :-).
<crimsun> Nafallo: sure, just reading away messages :-)
<Nafallo> figured you wasn't here when there was no answer :-)
<crimsun> :-)
<Nafallo> slomo: bug 4545 is daniels boog, right?
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #4545: amsn crashes on start-up/won't load Fix req. for: amsn (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Instant Messaging, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4545
<slomo> Nafallo: no idea... what is amsn? ;)
<Nafallo> slomo: the same error was talked about with emacs and vim on devel yesterday :-)
<slomo> Nafallo: ok, yes... it his problem ;)
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> whey andrew
<dholbach> who wanted me to review libloki?
<ajmitch> hello daniel
<dholbach> lfittl?
<dholbach> ajmitch: how are you?
<ajmitch> alive, I think
<dholbach> that sounds a bit vague :)
<dholbach> you feel vague too?
<ajmitch> I feel a bit vague this morning ;)
<ajmitch> ~24 hours of flying to get back
<dredg> ouch
<dholbach> oh yeah, i can imagine
<dredg> i thought i was bad with 13 hrs
<ajmitch> so now I have to sit on the sidelines for awhile before I can rejoin MOTU
<dredg> and 4 days later i'm still out of it
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I got back yesterday morning
<dredg> though i've started sleeping properly and i can look at my screens without feeling ill
<ajmitch> :)
<dredg> still waking up hungry at 2am cos my stomach thinks it's lunchtime though.
<ajmitch> yes, I need to get some food asap :)
<ajmitch> & I need to start bugging elmo
<dredg> food first :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: bug elmo? :-)
<Nafallo> what foolish thing has that man done to anyone?
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I need my gpg key in the keyring
<ajmitch> good to see that there's another small c++ transition to do
<Nafallo> good? :-)
<ajmitch> yeah, and \sh is doing all the MOTU work again :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> slomo: reassign the bug to daniels :-)
<Nafallo> s/n/ned/
* ajmitch has to get back in touch with what is happening
<Nafallo> wb ajmitch :-)
<slomo> Nafallo: no time... please do it ;)
* ajmitch sighs
<slomo> Nafallo: but you'll get a new banshee on saturday after debian finally has gtk# 2.4.0
<lfittl> dholbach: How exactly should I mention in the changelog that I want to maintain the package? (concerning your comment on libloki in revu)
<Nafallo> slomo: yea, reassigned. not reassign :-).
<Nafallo> lfittl: Maintainer: in debian/control
<dholbach> lfittl: err, no, not stating, that you want to maintain it, just mention more explicitly what you did to it... but that's fine
<slomo> Nafallo: hehe
<slomo> ajmitch: you can kick wavpack from your todo list :)
<dholbach> lfittl: with the merges going on, you should have an idea, how painful this is... but if you say, that you really want to maintain it, ie: get the bug reports, talk to upstream, get new versions in, merge with debian, ... then that's fine :)
<ajmitch> slomo: I can probably drop everything from my todo list?
<Nafallo> you have an todo-list? :-)
<ajmitch> sure
* Nafallo just do things and picks up the garbage later :-)
<dholbach> lfittl: the problem is, whenever there are changes in debian, then we'll want to have them. while i'm strongly in favor of using cdbs, we will always have to carry the delta with us... it was just my question, if you wanted to do that :)
<slomo> ajmitch: um no... sure, you can... but that's the only package which is in already... i talked to lool about gst-plugins support for it and he suggested to me that he can sponsor it
<ajmitch> so what else have I missed in the tie I've been gone?
<lfittl> dholbach: yep I want to do that, because the debian maintainer does not work much on this package (http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2005/06/msg00133.html)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I've started actually doing things ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: you were doing things before I left
<slomo> ajmitch: hmm, nothing big happenend imho... oh, i have no time to do anything atm but that's nothing big ;)
<dholbach> lfittl: i see
<Nafallo> ajmitch: and bddebian has disappered :-/.
<Nafallo> I DID NOT! :-)
<dholbach> lfittl: i'll have another look at it then
<ajmitch> disappeared?
<lfittl> dholbach: ok, thanks
<ajmitch> as in not seen on irc?
<Nafallo> yes. he's been gone since pre-ubz or so :-/
<ajmitch> hm
<LaserJock> can you use grep on multiple lines at a time?
<ogra> LaserJock, grep -A
<ogra> or grep -B
<LaserJock> ogra: I am looking at more of matching the contents of 2 lines. I want it to grep a line containing "foo" followed by a line containing "bar" for instance
<ogra> grep -A 2 foo <file>| grep bar
<ajmitch> hi ogra
<ogra> or something like that
<ogra> hi ajmitch
<slomo> LaserJock: try egrep... '.*foo.*\n.*bar.*' or something
<Nafallo> or grep -C :-)
<LaserJock> slomo: doesn't seem to work, maybe I will try python
<dholbach> everybody congratulate lfittl to his first upload: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2005-November/001093.html
<crimsun> rockin'!
<lfittl> thanks :)
<xhaker> cheers
<raphink> hi all
<bmonty_laptop> hi raphink
<raphink> :)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bmonty_laptop> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bmonty_laptop
<dholbach> have a nice evening
<raphink> Idon't get it
<raphink> :(
<bmonty_laptop> if a package is on the merge list, but the package vesion was only bumped for a rebuild, do we need to do anything?
<bmonty_laptop> ^version was bumped by debian
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: so actually it's the same exact same package as we have?
<bmonty_laptop> sistpoty: there are some ubuntu changes that \sh made
<bmonty_laptop> that need to stay in the package
<bmonty_laptop> the package is fbi
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: ok, so basically the merge would be to leave the package as is?
<bmonty_laptop> sistpoty: basically it would be to apply the ubuntu patch to the debian package with was only revved for a rebuild
<LaserJock> why would a Sources.gz have packages that aren't available via apt?
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: well then, do nothing and close the bug (to mark it as done in the list). If you are eager, you could also comment to the malone bug ;)
<bmonty_laptop> sistpoty: will do
<sistpoty> LaserJock: are your sources up to date?
<bmonty_laptop> sistpoty: actually I didn't open a bug on it yet :)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: yep, and I can see the package on archive.u.c/pool/ but apt won't install it
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: then open a bug, just to close it
<bmonty_laptop> haha
<bmonty_laptop> ok
<sistpoty> LaserJock: what does apt tell you?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: E: Unable to find a source package for
<sistpoty> LaserJock: do you have the right deb-src lines in /etc/apt/sources.list?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: or using a mirror, that is flawed?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: yep, and nope
<LaserJock> sistpoty: oh, wait a second
<sistpoty> LaserJock: hm... then that's strange... just retry with apt-get update ... apt-get source (or whatever you were trying)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: ok, found it. I was doing it in a chroot that had us.archive.u.c
<LaserJock> The us mirror seems pretty slow to sync with a.u.c
<bmonty_laptop> what is wrong with the us mirror?
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: I had a Sources.gz file from a.u.c but I was trying to apt-get with us.a.u.c
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: yeah, but the US mirror has problems with authenticating packages (at least for me)
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: I don't care about that though ;-)
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: it is kinda annoying though
<sistpoty> it's a shame that ftp.uni-erlangen.de is a really bad mirror (i study at this there *g*)
<sistpoty> s/at this//
<slomo> bmonty_laptop: even if the debian version is only a rebuild and ubuntu changes are needed but not in the debian package... please merge to get it from the to-sync list ;)
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: jeez bmonty_laptop, you've repackaged the fbi. Maybe you should try the irs :)
<sistpoty> slomo: that's why i told bmonty_laptop to file a bug and close it
<slomo> sistpoty: well, i mean to get it from the MoM list...
<sistpoty> slomo: exactly... that's the way the status of the list is updated... malone bug filed -> accepted; malone bug fixed -> done
<slomo> sistpoty: not your list... scott's *sigh* i need sleep, nobody understands me :P
<sistpoty> slomo: ah, k *g*
<raphink> I've got a pb with pbuilder
<raphink> can anyone help me find out what's wrong?
<crimsun> what's the issue?
<crimsun> (brb)
<raphink> since I upgraded to dapper, when I want to build with pbuilder I get errors like :
<raphink> grep: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//3254/etc/shadow: No such file or directory
<raphink> /var/cache/pbuilder/build/3254/etc/shadow
<raphink> mv: cannot stat `/var/cache/pbuilder/build/3254/etc/shadow': No such file or directory
<raphink>  -> Aborting with an error
<raphink> I've tried purging pbuilder, reinstalling and resetting it
<raphink> then rebuilding the base archive and rrebuilding a package
<raphink> I still get the error
<crimsun> you should be building a breezy pbuilder then dist-upgrading it to dapper
<raphink> how do I do that crimsun ?
<ogra> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338976
<raphink> I mean how to I dist-upgrade pbuilder?
<crimsun> just build a normal breezy one
<raphink> ok
<ogra> raphink, see the bug above
<bmonty_laptop> slomo: is there no way to get a package off the merge list without actually doing a merge? seems like a waste of my time and whoever sponsors the upload for me
<raphink> ok
<crimsun> then change your apt.config/sources.list and ''sudo pbuilder update --override-config''
<slomo> bmonty_laptop: afaik not
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: only if it only needs a sync
<crimsun> then we can just ask for it
<raphink> crimsun: I already upgraded to dapper
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: the ubuntu patches are needed
<bmonty_laptop> the debian maintainer did a rebuild for build deps
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: then it has to go through standard merge procedure, sorry.
<bmonty_laptop> sounds like something that needs to be fixed in MoM...
<bmonty_laptop> I'll reopen the bug and put the debdiff up
<slomo> bmonty_laptop: how to find out automatically if something is just a rebuild or not?
<crimsun> automatically? Hmm, I don't even know if there is a way. I've only encountered one such (view3ds)
<bmonty_laptop> slomo: you can't, but after a person looks at it we should be able to mark it as a merge not required
<crimsun> and I went ahead and merged view3ds just to keep current
<raphink> crimsun: I ran sudo pbuilder update --override-config
<raphink> and I got : Distribution not specified, please specify
<raphink> :s
<raphink> while I had run `sudo pbuilder create --distribution breezy' just before
<sistpoty> raphink: did you adjust pbuilder config (i.e. the sources.list for pbuilder)
<raphink> sistpoty: pbuilderrc doesn't contain the distribution name
<raphink> :s
<raphink> I don't see what I shall adjust in the pbuilder config I'm sorry
<sistpoty> raphink: but it should contain s.th. like DISTRIBUTION=... and APTCONFDIR=...
<raphink> hmm
<crimsun> mine actually reads DISTRIBUTION=warty
<bmonty_laptop> there, no malone has generated more emails than that package deserves :)
<crimsun> but I've dist-upgraded it from warty to hoary to breezy to dapper
<sistpoty> raphink: adjust 1) the distribution in pbuilderrc and the sources.list wherever aptconfdir points
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> so I put dapper as the distribution
<crimsun> no
<raphink> isn't it the same as running pbuilder create --distribution dapper?
<crimsun> leave the distribution whatever you first created it as
<raphink> crimsun: then what?
<crimsun> you can't create a dapper pbuilder right now
<raphink> the distribution was commented crimsun
<crimsun> it just doesn't work.
<slomo> crimsun: you can... worked for me some days ago
<raphink> oh IC
<crimsun> slomo: broke for me :/  (amd64)
<raphink> so I should keep a breezy one?
<slomo> crimsun: hmm, x86 and ppc works ;)
<crimsun> raphink: create a breezy one, dist-upgrade it to dapper
<sistpoty> hehe, poor crimsun with amd64
<slomo> raphink: breezy and then update to dapper is the preferred way to get a dapper pbuilder
<crimsun> sistpoty: it's only a box I use for pbuilder, and it's 2000 mi away
<raphink> slomo: how do I upgrade pbuilder is what I don't get
<raphink> I only know how to create it with pbuilder create --distribution nameofdistro
<crimsun> raphink: you have a sources.list in your apt.config
<bmonty_laptop> raphink: yes, do that for breezy
<crimsun> in your pbuilder's apt.config
<raphink> crimsun: what is apt.config? where do I find it ?
<crimsun> raphink: um, you were supposed to specify that in ~/.pbuilderrc
<raphink> do you mean the APTCONFDIR ?
<crimsun> yes
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I'm seting it in /etc/pbuilderrc
<sistpoty> weehaa. communication problem (hopefully) solved :)
<bmonty_laptop> that works also
<raphink> and it should be /etc/apt/ right?
<bmonty_laptop> raphink: no, did you follow the pbuilder instructions in the wiki?
<raphink> bmonty_laptop: where is it?
<bmonty_laptop> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<crimsun> (I tend to avoid system-wide changes like that, because this box actually hosts several dozen pbuilders)
<raphink> thanks bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> raphink: no problem. follows those instructions for breezy, and once that works I'll help you make it dapper
<sistpoty> crimsun that's a good idea... I think I'm still corrupted by "this is my box and I have sudo-powers"
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: can you have multiple pbuilder configs in .pbuilderrc?
<slomo> crimsun: can you ping elmo for moving ffmpeg back to universe?
<bmonty_laptop> I gotta get elmo to check out sync requests I emailed him
<crimsun> slomo: is it delegated to him?
<crimsun> if so, sure
* Nafallo takes on the x dep-waits we have :-)
<slomo> crimsun: afaik yes... at least i was told by someone i can't remember ;)
<LaserJock> why would there be source-packages that don't have binary packages built?
<slomo> LaserJock: did they fail?
<LaserJock> specifically, what about packages from the debian-installer section
<LaserJock> slomo: no, I don't think they are even tried
<LaserJock> for instance, I don't see them in http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> what package for example?
<LaserJock> aboot-installer
<slomo> alpha only iirc
<slomo> another one? ;)
<sistpoty> didn't aboot-installer get removed (or aboot)?
<LaserJock> the complete list I'm interested in is : aboot-installer arcboot-installer cobalt-scripts colo-installer delo-installer partman-ext2r0 s390-dasd s390-netdevice srm-reader userdevfs vmelilo-installer zipl-installer
<LaserJock> they are universe source packages that don't have a section
<slomo> hmm
<LaserJock> on debian they are all in debian-installer section
<slomo> i guess they're all for archs we don't support atm
<crimsun> check the last two links in the Documentation section on http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
<crimsun> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstallerBuild might give you a clearer picture of how it fits
<LaserJock> ok, but is there something wrong with the way it is now or is it ok?
<LaserJock> I'm not concerned about it but it caused a mess in the python script I am working on
<raphink> bmonty_laptop: I created the breezy pbuilder following the wiki, now what?
<bmonty_laptop> in /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/sources.list change all "breezy" to "dapper"
<raphink> ok
<bmonty_laptop> then "sudo pbuilder update --override-config"
<crimsun> LaserJock: I'd check with kamion.
<raphink> that won't work for updates and backports will it?
<bmonty_laptop> raphink: no, take those out
<raphink> ok bmonty_laptop
<raphink> thanks
<raphink> that was recorded a few years ago
<raphink> like 3 years I think
<raphink> yeah 3 years ago
<raphink> oooops
<raphink> sorry
<raphink> wrong chan
<raphink> lol
<raphink> bmonty_laptop: I did as you said
<raphink> then tried to build my pbuilder again
<raphink> and i still have the same error
<raphink> :(
<bmonty_laptop> raphink: did you use build or update?
<raphink> I used build for my package
<raphink> just before
<bmonty_laptop> after you changed sources to dapper you ran "sudo pbuilder update --override-config" ?
<raphink> I used sudo pbuilder update --override-config
<raphink> as you said
<raphink> yes I did
<raphink> it added some packages and rebuilt the base tarball
<bmonty_laptop> did that succeed?
<raphink> then I built my package
<raphink> yes
<raphink> then I built with
<raphink> sudo pbuilder build mypackage.dsc
<bmonty_laptop> what was the error with the package?
<raphink> grep: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//19578/etc/shadow: No such file or directory
<raphink> /var/cache/pbuilder/build/19578/etc/shadow
<raphink> mv: cannot stat `/var/cache/pbuilder/build/19578/etc/shadow': No such file or directory
<crimsun> we just need a new pbuilder
<raphink> yes :s
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: yeah, but I don't think that error has anything to do with updating
<bmonty_laptop> to dapper
<raphink> well I got that just after upgrading my system to dapper
<crimsun> 0.128 works fine
<ogra> raphink, again, see: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338976
<raphink> I saw that ogra
<ogra> did you do the one line fix ?
<raphink> no ogra
<ogra> heh
<bmonty_laptop> I'm using the pbuilder package from dapper on breezy
<ogra> do it :)
<raphink> in the source of pbuilder yo umean?
<crimsun> ogra: or you could merge 0.138 ;)
<raphink> crimsun: you mean installing from the debian package?
<ogra> crimsun, yes, but its nearly 12pm and i have to do some other stuff...  i think i'll look into it tomorrow if nobody else grabbed it before
<siretart> evening folks
<siretart> the harry potter film is great :)
<crimsun> ogra: no biggie :) Thanks.
<siretart> Kmirno_AWAY: around?
<bmonty_laptop> siretart: I have to wait until it comes out on DVD, so don't spoil it
<edoardo> siretart, you tried audio-convert, correct? the deb package i mean : )
<siretart> bmonty_laptop: I wont ;)
<bmonty_laptop> :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: "Kamion LaserJock: nobody in their right mind cares about source packages without sections"
<siretart> edoardo: why do you ask?
<crimsun> LaserJock: that's the final answer
<crimsun> if I don't know the answer, I refer you to someone who does
<edoardo> siretart, i read it in revu. well i wanted to thank you : ) also, it works well, correct?
<raphink> ogra: modified the line in the script and trying :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, makes sense. I just have to work around it in my script, which is ok
<raphink> thanks
<ogra> raphink, cat >> $BUILDPLACE/etc/shadow ??
<raphink> ogra: no I modified the line as you said, with +    if [ ! "$SUTOUSER" = "su "  ] ; then
<siretart> edoardo: I didn't actually try it. I focused on the packaging. The packaging is fine for me :)
<raphink> since this guy said it worked this way
<raphink> and it does
<ogra> fine
<raphink> so thanks much :)
<ogra> :)
<edoardo> siretart, well thankyou for that anyway : )
<raphink> my package is all ready and nice so I was getting crazy not being able to build it nicely
<edoardo> you guys, how long does it take for a project in revu to be... reviewed?
<edoardo> usually, i mean
<crimsun> $RANDOM
<raphink> lol
<crimsun> it really depends when we have time.
<crimsun> most of us are extremely busy
<edoardo> me too : ) i was wonderin' if someone was lookin' at my project though. you know, i love to take care of it : )
<raphink> crimsun: I take your work as such :
<raphink>  $ echo $RANDOM
<raphink> 8428
<raphink> is that seconds, minutes, hours, days?
<raphink> ;)
<crimsun> random is random
<siretart> raphink: it really depends. I try to get over the list at least once a week
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> ok siretart :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-23
<raphink> just added one more :)
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: ping
<siretart> Kmirno_AWAY: or Mirno: Okay, I think that has been enough time for other motus to comment on the opera situation. According to what I have read, I THINK that redistribution is okay for multiverse. So I'd say lets try it, as nobody objected so far
<siretart> Kmirno_AWAY: It would be nice if your contributor, who is willing to maintain the package would show us his package, in order to get it uploaded to ubuntu
<siretart> Kmirno_AWAY: and to be honest, I think we have even harier stuff in multiverse: think of packageslike j2re1.4 or acroread :/
<siretart> Kmirno_AWAY: Sorry for the late answer, but I wanted to give other the chance to comment on the situation
<sivang> bah
<sivang> (hi all)
<sivang> java is evil :)
<siretart> hi sivang
<sivang> hey siretart , how are stuff going?
<siretart> sivang: a bit tired, I just returned from the cinema and I'm reading my emails. You are you?
<siretart> argl. I mean: How are you?
<sivang> siretart: pretty fine, finally got my desktop computer at my new apartment, and it's already set up with dapper chroot , I hope to have less hours at work following week so I will be finally able to help with the merges...
<sivang> siretart: (I recently moved)
<siretart> :)
<sivang> yah, I've been talking much about it and didn't have any time at all to contribute on that :-(
<LaserJock> so is the MOTU responsible for Multiverse too?
* siretart still waiting for the ordered harddrives, for experimenting with snapshotted chroots using lvm :)
<siretart> LaserJock: sure
<sivang> siretart: what drives did you order? :)
<sivang> siretart: is this something new? I never heared of snapshotted chroots with lvm :)
<LaserJock> siretart: what about restricted?
<Nafallo> main+restricted == supported == not us
<siretart> LaserJock: restricted are just a few package, you don't want to mess with them ;) (they are for main uploaders only)
<siretart> sivang: 2 s-ata drives, nothing spectacular
<LaserJock> ah, ok so it is really MOTU&M
<siretart> sivang: lvm2 has a nice feature of snapshotting volumes. It has been on my list for a long time :)
<sivang> siretart: wow cool, I have a big sata drive (120gb) I might use this as well :)
<siretart> okay folks, I'm off for today. - gn8, cu tomorrow!
<raphink> can someone review my packages pls ? :)
* Nafallo goes to bed, goodnight all! :-)
<sistpoty> gn8 Nafallo
<sistpoty> raphink: what package?
<raphink> sistpoty: i've uploaded 4 lately
<sistpoty> raphink: to revu?
<raphink> I think the most achieved ones are kio-sword and knmap
<raphink> toutf8 is a very very small one
<raphink> should take 5 seconds to be checked ;)
<sistpoty> raphink: ok, I'll have a look... ;)
<raphink> thanks sistpoty :)
<raphink> for kim though, there are mans missing... otherwise I think it's fine
<crimsun> your goal really should be to get it into Debian, which will pretty much need a man page
<raphink> ok
<raphink> well the thing is that kim is a collection of bash scripts
<raphink> so I have to find out how to write manpages for console scripts
<raphink> and there are 14 of them in this package
<Kyral> well I fubar'd this time
<bmonty_laptop> minghua: pong
<sistpoty> wb :)
<Kyral> Moved the root FS and now I'm being introduced to recovering GRUB from a Chroot
<bmonty_laptop> hi sistpoty
<minghua> hi bmonty_laptop, I've added some comments in the fam merge bug
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: I hope you've seen it
<bmonty_laptop> minghua: yeah I saw, I'm trying to figure out what happened.
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: the shared library name issue is quite tricky, and we'd better get it right
<bmonty_laptop> minghua: agreed, I spent most of my time checking on that, I'm not sure how the maintainer name got messed up
<minghua> in short, fam uses C++, but only exports C ABI, so no name change is necessary
<bmonty_laptop> binary packages should be limfam0 and libfam-dev
<minghua> but breezy shipped libfam0 anyway, so we probably have more problems than debian
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: maybe because debian changed maintainer between the breezy merge and the dapper merge?
<bmonty_laptop> maybe, I gotta get these diffs straight in my head again
<raphink> thanks sistpoty
<sistpoty> raphink: I'll review another one... but then I need to go to bed ;)
<Kyral> grr damn GRUB
<raphink> ok sistpoty :)
<bmonty_laptop> minghua: I must have been confused earlier, the more I look at this, the more I am thinking fam is a sync
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: what about the LSB init script changes?
<bmonty_laptop> the MoM merge is weird
<bmonty_laptop> ah yes, that is why I did the patch earlier
<bmonty_laptop> no I remember :)
<sistpoty> raphink: please limit line length in debian/changelog to 80 chars (kio-sword)
<raphink> ok
<sistpoty> back in 5 mins
<raphink> :)
<bmonty_laptop> minghua: now I just need to figure out why the control file got messed up
<raphink> what is longer than 80 chars in kio-sword sistpoty ?
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: If the MoM merge doesn't look good, I usually just look at the ubuntu changes (as it's supposed to be small), and try to apply relevant part to the sid version
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: that way things seem to be clearer to me.  but of course, that's just my personal preference
<bmonty_laptop> minghua: I used the MoM merged package and tested the build/install with that.
<bmonty_laptop> looks like MoM dropped some control file changes and I missed that (except for automake1.9 build dep)
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: ubuntu changed the priority, so that's perhaps why MoM was confused
<minghua> (because it loses the diff context)
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: the main reason I wrote that comment, though, is to alert you that we may want the name libfam0c102 for dapper
<sistpoty> raphink: in debian/changelog the entry "* Patch 01 fixes stricmp [...] "
<bmonty_laptop> minghua: I thought we were getting away from those names
<raphink> oh yeah changelog sorry sistpoty, ok
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: no, as I've said, fam doesn't export C++ ABI at all
<raphink> sistpoty: shall I add newlines, or just try to cut it?
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: so Debian probably will keep the name, see the debian bug report I mentioned
<sistpoty> raphink: just add newlines...
<raphink> ok sistpoty, so just as in the description in control :)
<sistpoty> raphink: in control only the description should not be longer than 80 chars... build-depends must be in one line
<raphink> yes
<raphink> that's what I meant
<sistpoty> ok
<raphink> so I do just as for the description in control that's what I meant ;)
<sistpoty> hehe ;)
<sistpoty> ok, i need some sleep now. gn8
<raphink> ok
<raphink> good night sistpoty :)
<raphink> thank you for your reviews :)
<sistpoty> np ;)
<Kyral> Well that isn't an experiance I want to go through again
<Kyral> hey slomo
<bmonty_laptop> minghua: I'm pretty sure that we want our fam binary packages to be libfam0 and libfam-dev
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: okay
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: I just want to make sure you are aware of this issue
<bmonty_laptop> thanks for pointing it out
<bmonty_laptop> I'm taking the libfam0c102 references out of the control file
<bmonty_laptop> minghua: I just put a new debdiff on #4574, can you take a look at it please?
<zakame> afternoon all :)
<crimsun> 'afternoon
<Burgundavia> did the MOTUs ever decide on a logo?
<zakame> hmmm, that would be nice :)
<Burgundavia> http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=motulogo4fe.png
<zakame> ooh!
<Burgundavia> that is old
<zakame> brb
<zakame> hi again :)
<zakame> hmmm, is libjack0.100.0-dev still unsynced in ia64?
<zakame> can anyone please check bug 4090 , thanks in advance :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4090: gtkpbbuttons: merge new debian version Fix req. for: gtkpbbuttons (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4090
<ajmitch> zakame: why'd you update the standards version?
<ajmitch> it's unnecessary & adds extra noise
<ajmitch> and this..
<ajmitch> -Architecture: all
<ajmitch> +Architecture: powerpc
<ajmitch> why?
<zakame> ajmitch: its powerpc specific, it won't build on all
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> at least drop the standards version change, it's not needed
<ajmitch> the 4th digit is for typos & similar minor changes only
<zakame> hmm
<zakame> is it not desirable to keep Standards-Version in sync with the latest debian-policy version?
* freeflying is away: Away at the moment
<zakame> wb Seveas
<Seveas> ty
* freeflying is back.
<Kmirno_AWAY> siretart: there is no one submiting a package, only  people asking for it. I was going to simply add the bnaries from Opera website
<Kmirno_AWAY> siretart: PLF doesn't require source only packages
<zakame> plf?
<Kmirno_AWAY> zakame: http://wiki.ubuntu-fr.org/doc/plf => Pinguin Liberation Front for Ubuntu (http://plf.zarb.org about PLF general and for mandriva)
<Kmirno_AWAY> zakame: we provide stuff like w32codecs libdvdcss2
<siretart> Kmirno_AWAY: you really should
<siretart> Kmirno_AWAY: even if only binaries are copied
<siretart> morning
<siretart> hey ajmitch!
<Kmirno_AWAY> siretart: we we really don't :) I put sourepackages with binaries when avaible if not this is not blocking..
<ajmitch> hi
<siretart> Kmirno: how do you ensure that your binaries do not contain malicous software when you cannot rebuild it yourself?
<Kmirno> siretart: we don't
<siretart> morning daniel!
<siretart> Kmirno: thats really sad :(
<ajmitch> dholbach!
<dholbach> hey andrew, reinhard! :)
<zakame> Kmirno: ooh!
<Kmirno> siretart: We don't have access to Opera source code nor to skype source code, makeing a soruce package that provides the binaries and think it's safe .. is a complete nonsense.
<zakame> hi dholbach :D
<dholbach> hi zakame :)
<dholbach> hi everybody else
<freeflying> dose who maintain package of xorg
<siretart> Kmirno: even then one could verify if the md5sums of the binaries match from those distributed by opera or skype or whatever
<siretart> Kmirno: I rather fear your package submitter than the original origins (which I fear too, but not that much)
<siretart> submitters
* ajmitch feels like going off to sleep
<Kmirno> siretart: packages are taken directly from the vendor same place as normal binaries ..  If it does malicious people will blame Opera, if I or someone else redoes a package and it does malicious people will blame me.
<Kmirno> siretart: PLF is just falicating access no modifications for vendor binaries when can be avoided.
<Kmirno> Tonio_: siretart said they'll try to get Opera into MOTU.
<siretart> Kmirno: now you confuse me: do you take the original .debs distributed by opera?
<Kmirno> siretart: yes
<Tonio_> Kmirno: hi, thanks, that's a good news;)
<Tonio_> according to the redistribution licence, I haven't seen something that would obviously forbid that.
<crimsun> opera updates their debs fairly regularly, though
<Tonio_> anyway, that's a very good news
<siretart> Kmirno: same for skype?
<Tonio_> hello siretart
<siretart> I don't quite get the point in redistributing binary .debs..
<siretart> hi Tonio_
<crimsun> I don't either
<freeflying> siretart: hi
<Kmirno> siretart: skype has some mdodifs as it is not working properly from vendor .. see keyes for details he is the maintainer I don't know much more about it
<Kmirno> crimsun: ease of access
<crimsun> Kmirno: and what about updates?
<Kmirno> crimsun: that's allwhat PLF is about, provideing questionnable (or less questionnable) packages with ease of access.
<Kmirno> crimsun: well we update the package when there's a new one
<freeflying> dose who maintain package of xorg
<Kmirno> crimsun: that's the maintainers job
<siretart> Kmirno: so you confuse me again: earlier you tell me that you redistribute unmodified binaries from upstream, now you say Keyes is modifing the binary deb
<crimsun> freeflying: the main team does, but mostly daniels
<zakame> motus: please check bug 4105 debdiff, thanks in advance :)
<freeflying> crimsun: I have some problem with xorg
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4105: mpd: merge new debian version Fix req. for: mpd (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4105
<Kmirno> siretart: I said unmodified whenever possible
<Kmirno> siretart: skype needed modification to work properly
<crimsun> Kmirno: err, so why is Ubuntu multiverse involved?
<Kmirno> siretart: ircc
* ajmitch would love to check, but can't do anything with them
<siretart> Kmirno: faciliating is one point. I try to help you to provide package with some quality standards
<Kmirno> crimsun: because siretart made me agree to take only MOTU rejected packages into PLF
<crimsun> ah, so we're not talking about multiverse or universe at all but plf
<Kmirno> siretart: well Opera packages seem good quality no ?
<siretart> Kmirno: in order to do that, I need to be able to review your work. and this doesn't work very well without 'source packages'
<ajmitch> zakame: what's different from the debian package there?
<siretart> Kmirno: lets go back to the opera specific case and back from general discussion
<Kmirno> siretart: yup
<siretart> Kmirno: I'd really appreciate if someone would package the opera binaries suitable for multiverse
<siretart> Kmirno: I don't see objections to not redistribute them via multiverse
<siretart> Kmirno: would you or someone from plf volunteer to work on an upload suitable for multiverse?
<zakame> ajmitch: I see translation diffs
<ajmitch> zakame: ok, they're not in the changelog though?
<Kmirno> siretart: I'd really apreciate if someone do my work for me too :) hh ... Ask the mailing list for volonteers if you wish :)
<ajmitch> since the only ubuntu changes that were noted aren't changelog related
<zakame> hmmm, you mean my comment at lp?
<Kmirno> siretart: I can't answer for others
<ajmitch> zakame: looking at the changelog entries in the debdiff
<siretart> Kmirno: I don't consider packaging unfree software as  'my work'
* ajmitch needs to get dapper setup before he can check things properly
<ajmitch> and I still have to wait on gpg key magic :(
<Kmirno> siretart: I'm not asking you to. But don't ask others to do it for you.
<zakame> ajmitch: hmm, indeed, it wasn't noted in the changelog earlier
<siretart> Kmirno: I understand from you that you already have one who did some work on packages, no?
<Kmirno> siretart: I don't understand
<zakame> ajmitch: wait, there's a repeat of 0.11.5-4 in the changelog, darn
* ajmitch is going off to sleep now anyway
<ajmitch> bye
<siretart> Kmirno: do you have some opera packages or not?
<siretart> gn8 ajmitch !
<Kmirno> siretart: no
<crimsun> 'night ajmitch
<siretart> Kmirno: aah, I thought you where about to release something
<zakame> ajmitch: bye, and thanks for the input! :)
<Kmirno> siretart: well I would cp packages from opera into PLF an that would constitue the release of opera in PLF.
<siretart> Kmirno: perhaps we can agree on this: you redistribute the opera .debs until somebody uploads opera binaries to multiverse? (as nobody seems interested, I don't expect that to happen soon)
<Kmirno> siretart: Absolutely Just warn me when you want me to remove them.
<siretart> Kmirno: okay
<Kmirno> siretart: i'm of adding them to PLF, thank you
<siretart> n/p
<StrikeForce> can anyone tell me whether apt-build is worth doing on a p4 system?
<StrikeForce> to rebuild everything except gcc g++ and the kernels?
<sivang> Good morning all!
<StrikeForce> morning sivang :)
<sivang> hey StrikeForce
<dholbach> StrikeForce: why rebuild?
<Treenaks> dholbach: foor l33t gent00n3zz
<StrikeForce> dholbach, I was just looking at it thats all
<siretart> StrikeForce: what advantages do you expect from that?
<dholbach> makes no sense :)
<StrikeForce> I was messing around iwth a system where I just do things to test and learn
<StrikeForce> does it make a difference?
<Treenaks> siretart: 3ms startuptime increase, and 0.001% speed increase!
<StrikeForce> kk
<StrikeForce> so not worth it
<crimsun> no, not really.
<StrikeForce> thanks
<crimsun> a more streamlined kernel and libc6-i686 would be, and everyone would benefit, not just you
<StrikeForce> yeah
<StrikeForce> although compared to my fedora box the ubuntu kernel is great
<StrikeForce> it /seems/ to me a hell of a lot more efficient
<dholbach> herzi: criawips is in dapper universe :)
<siretart> crimsun: I'd really appreciate ulibc ports! :)
<herzi> dholbach: great
<dholbach> herzi: you should do a new release - the cvs version didn't build for me ;)
<herzi> the next version will be even more usable, we hacked on it during the lwe
<herzi> i broke it sometimes in between, it should work
<dholbach> some missing header
<mvo> Nafallo: so, tipptrainer ... it dosn't seem to work for me, did you run it successfully?
<Nafallo> hm, I'll try.
<mvo> I seem to can't start a lesson or class :/
* Nafallo ands a mental note about changing -en to default :-P
<Nafallo> works for me :-)
<Nafallo> you are running the latest version?
<Nafallo> (0.6.0-6ubuntu1)
<mvo> for english data files?
<mvo> and you can select a class/lesson?
<mvo> ^--- Nafallo
<Nafallo> yes
<Nafallo> you are running -en aswell?
<mvo> I have both installed now
<mvo> (-en, -de)
<Nafallo> oh
<Nafallo> -de hates me :-P
<mvo> Nafallo: it seems like some old settings in ~/.Tipptrainer killed it, sorry for the noise
<Nafallo> so it wasn't that -de "Cannot load file lektion.index"?
<mvo> it was the same error, but after removing the ~/.Tipptrainer it magically worked
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<Nafallo> hmm, oki. I think I need german locale installed before -de works.
<\sh> mois
<\sh> moins even
<Nafallo> \sh: morning
<\sh> grmpf...
<\sh> incredible
<\sh> Nafallo: u remeber gajim merge? I told you that our orig.tar.gz is some bytes smaller then the debian one?
<\sh> Nafallo: I just diffed them...ubuntu against debian...
<\sh> Nafallo: no diff is produced
<Nafallo> joy :-/
<Mithrandir> which means the metadata is different.
<\sh> Mithrandir: looks like...but I don't know how I can merge this now...because I can't do neither a source upload nor a diff-only upload...from the merge package...neither I can sync it because of our patches.
<Nafallo> \sh: bring in 0.9+svn ofcourse :-). replacing gajim_0.8.2 in dapper.
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: ping
<\sh> brb
<raphink> where can I find an example of a docbook for a shell command?
<Nafallo> bug 4574, is that a PendingUpload just not set?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4574: fam: merge new debian version Fix req. for: fam (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4574
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: bug 4574, is that a PendingUpload just not set?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4574: fam: merge new debian version Fix req. for: fam (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4574
<raphink> I can't get to install manpages for my package :(
<raphink> this is my debian/rules : http://ubuntu-fr.pastebin.com/434229
<raphink> the two manpages won't install :(
<cribeiro> hi... is this the correct channel to discuss launchpad specifications for Ubuntu?
<Treenaks> #launchpad, maybe?
<raphink> anyone has an idea for my manpages?
<cribeiro> Well, the topic is not the launchpad itself... but Ubuntu. And there's one question that is packaging-related...
<Kyral> Mornin'
* Kyral looks outside
<Kyral> Yea! Snow! :D
<Arcangel> hola
<Arcangel> :):)
<\sh> cribeiro: soyuz issues?
<Arcangel> somebody help me?i have the pjirc on FC3,..is possible create a  irc chat?
<Arcangel> a new cahnnel
<\sh> Arcangel: join #freenode pls...this is ubuntu-motu channel :)
<Arcangel> yes,the eternal problem between debian & the rest
<Arcangel> ok
* Kyral arches an eyebrow
<\sh> Arcangel: no...the eternal problem between ubuntu universe development and users support questions about IRC related issues
<Arcangel> thanks anyway
<Arcangel> have a nice day from spain
<\sh> Arcangel: thx, u too :)
<raphink> chau Arcangel
<bmonty_laptop> mornin' everyone
<Kyral> mornin'
<Nafallo> morning bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: I was thinking it would be nice if your MOTU tools could do some kind of an automatic sync request to elmo
<tseng> eh
<tseng> it would be nice if launchpad did it itself with a signed email or something
<bmonty_laptop> yeha
<tseng> no bothering elmo
<bmonty_laptop> agreed, but until then I wonder if there is a way to make sync requests easier for all involved
<bmonty_laptop> maybe we could generate an email that has things elmo could filter on, or creates the command line he can just cut and paste, that kind of thing
<bmonty_laptop> brb, gotta go change a daiper :)
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: we don't wont to bug elmo automatically...he is a human being and not a bot :)
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: and actually we're waiting for soyuz to land
<Treenaks> \sh: crash-land? :)
<\sh> Treenaks: ;)
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: not to treat elmo like a bot, but to make things easier if need be (I dunno maybe he is happy sifting though #ubuntu-devel looking for the requests)
<bmonty_laptop> what is soyuz?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: I send him mails and doing the request via irc (mails when I have more then one package to sync..)
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/SoyuzSpecification
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: does he handle the syncs you request by email?  maybe he doesn't do mine because I'm not an MOTU?
<Gloubiboulga> hello all
<bmonty_laptop> hi Gloubiboulga
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: just curious, are you going to handle the bzr merge just like another other package, or will you merge against the latest devel version?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: no..I'll handle it like any other merge
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: so the latest from unstable?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: yepp
<bmonty_laptop> ok, I should have asked, but I figured bzr development was still too heavy to make a merge worthwhile
<bmonty_laptop> ocaml has a newer debian version but it isn't on the merge list, can I merge it anyway? (need it for build/install deps for findlib)
<slomo_> sure
<dholbach> bmonty_laptop: i already synced it and findlib too?
<dholbach> oh no, it's not
<dholbach> oh it is
<dholbach> and they're both in main
<bmonty_laptop> dholbach: ocaml in dapper is 3.08.3-3ubuntu5 and unstable is 3.09.0-1
<bmonty_laptop> you're right about main though :(
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ apt-cache showsrc ocaml | grep Version
<dholbach> Version: 3.09.0-1
<dholbach> findlib was needed in main for gmetadom, which was needed for gdome, which was needed for gtkmathview, which was needed for abiword
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> maininclusionreport-love :)
<Lathiat> heh
<bmonty_laptop> ok, my chroot needed an update
<bmonty_laptop> hmm, does REVU not remove main packages from the list?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: u mean the revu MOM list_
<\sh> ?
<bmonty_laptop> ye
<bmonty_laptop> s
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: i think they were in universe first..and now they're in main...
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: but anyways...do the merge...I'll sponsor
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: dholbach said he already merged them so I closed the merge bug
<dholbach> yes, it's all done
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: ok...:)
<\sh> dholbach: btw...any solution for gnomegames?
<dholbach> some packages (build-)depending on ocaml might need love
<dholbach> \sh: not yet
<\sh> dholbach: because from what I see the package is right...could it be that we have some problems with cdbs or dh_fixperms?
<Gloubiboulga> libfoo and libfoo-dev should have the same version number, right ?
<bmonty_laptop> Gloubiboulga: do they come from the same source package?
<Gloubiboulga> good question
<Gloubiboulga> I guess so
<Gloubiboulga> libreadline4 version :4.3-18, and libreadline4-dev: 4.3-17 on dapper
<Gloubiboulga> the dev package can't be installed
<bmonty_laptop> maybe -dev failed to build?
<slomo_> either both or none has failed in general
<slomo_> Gloubiboulga: libreadline5 is the newest afaik
<Gloubiboulga> yep, I've just seen that
<bmonty_laptop> I don't see libreadline4 in the buildlogs, and I've worked with several packages that are using libreadline5
<slomo_> bmonty_laptop: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/r/readline4/4.3-18/#
<slomo_>  readline4 (4.3-18) unstable; urgency=low
<slomo_>  .
<slomo_>    * Don't build the readline4-dev package anymore.
* bmonty_laptop slaps his forehead
<bmonty_laptop> gotta scroll up and look at the source package name
<slomo_> i.e. 4 is deprecated and 5 should be used
<Gloubiboulga> I try to work on a merge (my first one)
<Gloubiboulga> I think I have to correct the dependencies :)
<dholbach> \sh_away: it needs the permissions to write to /var/games, at the moment i don't have an idea, how to fix
<ogra> sguid "games" is the right fix i think
<dholbach> ogra: what do you want me to change?
<ogra> dholbach, nothing ?
<ogra> dont you already set sguid games ?
<dholbach> "nothing" doesnt help :)
<ogra> dholbach, whats wrong ? as i got it you already install the binarys sguid games ...
<bmonty_laptop> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello
<bmonty_laptop> glad to be back from your trip?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> now I have to get back to paid work
<bmonty_laptop> heh, no MOTU work? :)
<ajmitch> if I could
<bmonty_laptop> I took this week off, so my MOTU time is going to go down drastically next week
<dholbach> bmonty_laptop: you did awesome work
<ajmitch> I haven't done anything for dapper yet
<bmonty_laptop> dholbach: thanks!
<ajmitch> & I still can't upload :)
<bmonty_laptop> for main?
<ajmitch> for main & universe
<ajmitch> I should just try & upload to see if elmo has processed it but hasn't told me
<bmonty_laptop> if he hasn't maybe the reject message will remind him :)
<ajmitch> he wouldn't see it
* ajmitch needs something to upload first
<bmonty_laptop> Malone #4611
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<ajmitch> yay, config.* mess
<ajmitch> I hate that in debdiffs
<bmonty_laptop> there isn't anything to do about that, right?
<bmonty_laptop> it would be nice if debdiff was smart enough to ignore those files
<bmonty_laptop> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bmonty_laptop
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<bmonty_laptop> pretty good here, you?
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: oh, alright. I wish I could spend more time on Ubuntu and less on my research
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: Is it bad that I would rather play with linux than work in my field?
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: no, sometimes I feel the same way
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: Right now I feel like I'm spinning my wheels right now in my research. At least with Ubuntu I can see some progress
<bmonty_laptop> yeah, I know that feeling...I've worked on a couple of projects where I came on after the project started and left before it finished
<bmonty_laptop> hard to stay motivated when you know you won't see the end
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: that's what I am up against. I need to have the organic chemists make the molecules I want to study but they are having a hard time so I don't know if I will get to do much with them
<bmonty_laptop> otherwise you are stuck playing with a simulation, right?
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: well, since I'm an experimentalist I get to work on other similar molecules :)
<LaserJock> so in the mean time I am going to work on MOTUScience and hopefully some wiki work too ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> but you have an optimal molecule that in theory does what you want, right?
<ajmitch> Need to get 165MB/174MB of archives.
<ajmitch> After unpacking 53.4MB of additional disk space will be used.
<ajmitch> yay, just to update my chroot to dapper
* ajmitch waits patiently
<bmonty_laptop> i need to rebuild my chroot...there is too much crap in it now
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: well, we have a target molecule that will be a true moleculear motor. That hasn't been made yet. I will be able to work on a molecuar "rotor". Right now I am working on a molecular "switch" that isn't very interesting
<siretart> huhu ajmitch!
<siretart> ajmitch: how are you?
<ajmitch> siretart: alive I think
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: sounds pretty interesting to me...but I only took the minimum chem required to finish my EE curiculum :)
<ajmitch> siretart: so can you upload to main now?
<siretart> ajmitch: in theory, yes. practically, I'm still wating for elmo :(
<ajmitch> so am I
<ajmitch> so we have to ping him
* ajmitch can't do any uploads right now
<siretart> I already pinged him twice, be he didn'r respond to my email
<ajmitch> he's on irc now
<siretart> ajmitch: do you want to ping him now? ;)
<ajmitch> & he's meant to handle this within a certain timeframe
<ajmitch> not me :)
<ajmitch> I was about to though
<siretart> perhaps we should..
<ajmitch> please
<Tonio_> afternoon everyone
<bmonty_laptop> hi Tonio_
<Gloubiboulga> bye
<dholbach> have a nice evening guys
<[splinux] > hi
* crimsun reads away messages and scratches his head
<Diablo-D3> <Diablo-D3> Why does universe contain helix-player?
<Diablo-D3> <Diablo-D3> or rather, why does it include the completely useless stripped down helix-player?
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: and yes, it is useless.
<slomo> yes, completly useless
<slomo> i can confirm this ;)
<Diablo-D3> you cant play realvideo with it
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: You can't play realvideo with upstream either.
<slomo> you can play ogg vorbis/theora ;)
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Helix Player + Real codecs == Realplayer 10
<Diablo-D3> Amaranth: I wanst implying that it could....
<Amaranth> Someone wanted it and/or debian has it.
<Diablo-D3> Im saying helix-player is shit and it should be taken out of universe before someone accidently uses it.
<Amaranth> So it's in universe.
<Amaranth> No one is going to use it assuming it can do more.
<slomo> Diablo-D3: why shall i be removed? it doesn't hurt
<Amaranth> slomo: I agree we should remove you though. ;)
<Diablo-D3> slomo: because it doesnt do anything
<Diablo-D3> ubuntu shouldnt be packaging apps that are fundementally broken.
<slomo> Amaranth: remove me? why? :P
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Someone might find it useful.
<Amaranth> slomo: (typo)
<Diablo-D3> Amaranth: not really, no.
<crimsun> there's an explicit demarcation between helix-player and realplayer
<slomo> Amaranth: hehe ok :)
<Diablo-D3> it cant do anything that an app already included with gnome or kde by default cant already do
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Just because you don't like it or find a use for it doesn't mean it should be removed.
<crimsun> The Description for helix-player explicitly states that it plays open media formats
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Someone obviously thought it was useful enough to package.
<crimsun> real.com's codecs are not open
<slomo> and mp3/divx/wmv/etc are neither
<crimsun> and fwiw, I use helix-player occasionally
<Diablo-D3> Amaranth: no, someone thought it was political enough to package.
<crimsun> dude, universe exists for $random packages
<Amaranth> *cough*
<crimsun> this isn't like main where only a supported subset exist
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: If it was in main I could see your point.
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: that doesnt mean universe should be bloated.
<Amaranth> err, yeah, what he said
<crimsun> uh, bloat? wtf?
<crimsun> universe is bloat by definition
<Diablo-D3> how so?
<slomo> crimsun: what do you use helix for? :)
<crimsun> slomo: testing aoss
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: There are lots of useless things in universe.
<Diablo-D3> you can't have a useful ubuntu desktop without universe.
<bipolar> does anyone have a source for Mysql 5 Packages? I need them for a new development project.
<slomo> Diablo-D3: universe == everything with good licenses ;)
<Diablo-D3> I think we need a new repo then.
<Amaranth> literally everything
<Amaranth> everything possible, anyway
<Diablo-D3> solar-system.
<Diablo-D3> where everything useful from universe is taken out and put there.
<slomo> Diablo-D3: why?
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Now that's useless.
<crimsun> that's called main
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: except main is incomplete.
<thierry> lbreakout2 is not in malone but it's I can download his source
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Newbies don't get anything from universe unless someone tells them to.
<Diablo-D3> Amaranth: and newbies wonder why linux sucks.
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Also, most of the things you want that aren't in main are probably in multiverse.
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Now you're just trolling. Ignored.
<crimsun> thierry: you need a deb-src line for universe.
<Diablo-D3> so either, a) main is incomplete, b) universe is too bloated.
<slomo> and what's bad with universe beeing bloated?
<crimsun> universe by definition is bloated. It _has_ to be.
<Diablo-D3> its impossible to have c) main is complete AND universe cant be bloated
<crimsun> main is the "sane defaults" repo.
<crimsun> universe is the "here's repo, go hang yourself" repo
<crimsun> rope rather
<Diablo-D3> heh
<crimsun> and frankly that's the way that makes sense to many desktop users
<Diablo-D3> I wonder if I can get a listing of everything I have installed from universe
<Diablo-D3> oh screw this, realplayer from dapper multiverse doesnt work
<crimsun> sure, filter dpkg -l's output through apt-cache {policy,madison}
<thierry> cimsun : like deb-src lbreakout2 ?
* Diablo-D3 decides to just not watch the video.
<crimsun> thierry: deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy universe
<thierry> crimsun : no I want to find it in malone
<thierry> crimsun : like there https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+search?text=
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: er, what?
<crimsun> Diablo-D3: use apt-cache madison on the output from awk with dpkg -l, and grep for universe
<Diablo-D3> apt-cache madison `dpkg -l` | grep universe
<Diablo-D3> what about like that?
<crimsun> thierry: I can choose lbreakout2 just fine in the source package selection of filing a ubuntu bug
<Diablo-D3> wait thats not right either
<Diablo-D3> aaargggh
<thierry> crimsun : yeah but I want to find every bug for lbreakout2 and the link I sent you doesn't work
<thierry> and is it normal that I can't request fix upstream for some packages?
<slomo> yay, new liferea soon :)
<slomo> that's maybe a candidate for main...
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: okay, I give up
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: my sh-fu sucks
<crimsun> thierry: you'll need to check with the launchpad folks
<thierry> crimsun : where?
<crimsun> #launchpad
<thierry> cool thanks
<Diablo-D3> argh!
* Diablo-D3 somehow needs to get the 2nd column of dpkg -l output
<crimsun> (...awk)
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: yes, and seeing as awk is the 2nd worst documented program on *nix....
<crimsun> there are books on awk. There's even a standard.
<slomo> what's the 1st?
<Diablo-D3> slomo: several tied for first
<phlaegel> any chance of getting a liferea update into breezy? it's got a nasty little bug... http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=512424
<slomo> Diablo-D3: for example?
<slomo> phlaegel: i'm curently doing it
<phlaegel> ah
<slomo> phlaegel: for dapper that is
<jamessan|work> awk looks quite phenomenally documented in the man page
<phlaegel> oh
<Diablo-D3> jamessan|work: okay, experiment time
<slomo> phlaegel: are you sure this bug is already in 0.9.7?
<Diablo-D3> jamessan|work: tell awk to give me the second column in dpkg -l output
<phlaegel> slomo: I think it's worth looking at for breezy as well, I got bitten by it recently and it resulted in a not-so-friendly call from my isp about bandwidth usage
<slomo> phlaegel: uh... can you give me the diff from their cvs which fixes only this bug? i'll ask mdz for an update then...
<phlaegel> I then built rc3 and it hasn't shown the same behaviour
<jamessan|work> Diablo-D3: dpkg -l | awk '{print $2}'
<Diablo-D3> you're kidding me
<Diablo-D3> hrm, we have a problem then
<slomo> Diablo-D3: no, that's correct
<Diablo-D3> oh wait
<Diablo-D3> apt-cache madison apparently cant accept the list from stdin
<Amaranth> apt-cache madison -
<Diablo-D3> apt-cache madison `dpkg -l | awk '{print $2}'` | grep universe
<Diablo-D3> dun dun ddduunnn
<slomo> phlaegel: ?
<crimsun> Diablo-D3: it takes single parameters. Each a shell for construct.
<crimsun> s/Each/Use/
<Diablo-D3> First, I shall get rid of all the packages I dont need/use
<phlaegel> slomo: looking for it...
<Diablo-D3> uh
<Diablo-D3> this cant be right
<Diablo-D3> ca-certificates |   20050518 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe Packages
<crimsun> it is right, why?
<Diablo-D3> doesnt firefox require those?
<crimsun> it was only recently anastacia'd
<Amaranth> those are in main in dapper
<Diablo-D3> okay, what about... cervisia?
<Diablo-D3> it adds cvs support to konq
<Diablo-D3> man, I wish I could ask for some of these to be moved to main
<Diablo-D3> and actually have it done instead of having to argue about it for hours on end
<slomo> Diablo-D3: look at what the actual process of getting something is ;)
<Diablo-D3> I mean, why is realtime-lsm not in main?
<Diablo-D3> or why is jack not in main?
<crimsun> jackd IS in main
* crimsun sighs
<Diablo-D3> it is?
<crimsun> huh?
<crimsun> it got demoted
<Diablo-D3> libjack0.100.0-0 |  0.100.0-4 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Packages
<slomo> crimsun: yes, some days ago
<slomo> crimsun: nothing depends on it anymore
<crimsun> oh well, more fun for me I guess
<Diablo-D3> slomo: you mean besides a shitload of packages
<slomo> Diablo-D3: nothing in main
<Diablo-D3> slomo: that only means stuff needs to be moved to main
<slomo> crimsun: more fun? why? (btw, did you ping elmo?)
<crimsun> I'm actually kinda pleased it's in universe now.
<Diablo-D3> such as ardour and rosegarden4
<slomo> Diablo-D3: definitly not
<ajmitch> Diablo-D3: why should they be in main?
<crimsun> slomo: not yet, feel free to. I'm trying to sort the wpasupplicant issue.
<ajmitch> you'd have to give good reasons for them to be in & supported for 3-5 years
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Those are niche apps.
<Diablo-D3> Heh.
<Diablo-D3> windows is a niche app, then
<Amaranth> err
<jamessan|work> hardly
<Diablo-D3> only people what to install apps and do stuff with it use windows, according to that logic.
<Amaranth> windows has a built-in rosegarden equivalent that most of it's users actaully use?
<Diablo-D3> I'm trying to get a linux distro that people actually want to use.
<jamessan|work> look at the number of people that use Windows versus the number of people that use ardour/rosegarden4
<Diablo-D3> without having to fuck with shit
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Lots of people "actually want to use" ubuntu as-is.
<Diablo-D3> Amaranth: not enough.
<jamessan|work> heck, even the number of people that use linux vs the number of people that use ardour/rosegarden4
<Diablo-D3> I want everyone in the world to run linux.
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Moving everything to main isn't the answer.
<jamessan|work> I'd never heard of those until you mentioned them
<slomo> Diablo-D3: so why not move everyting from universe to main? :P
<Diablo-D3> slomo: except for all the crap in universe, thats not a bad idea.
<Diablo-D3> though, I think ubuntu will have to be issued on dvds at that point...
<slomo> Diablo-D3: actually i only know ardour because of it's broken buildsystem... so it's probably crap? ;)
<Diablo-D3> no, ardour just has a fucked up build system
<Diablo-D3> its actually quite fun
<slomo> Diablo-D3: it always depends on what you want what package is useful and what not...
<Diablo-D3> hrm.
<Diablo-D3> I wonder if morphix had the right idea.
<Diablo-D3> a modularized linux distro
<slomo> hm?
<Diablo-D3> like, gnome wasnt in morphix's base, it was in a gnome module
<Diablo-D3> and kde wouldnt be in main/universe, it'd be in a kde module
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Trust me, a majority of the people in the world are never going to use ardour and rosegarden.
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Sounds like a bitch to maintain.
<Diablo-D3> ardour and rosegarden and friends would be in a sound-workstation module
<Diablo-D3> Amaranth: not really
<Diablo-D3> the modules are just repos.
<slomo> Diablo-D3: so install ubuntu minimal and install what you want... maybe create a multimedia metapackage containing all multimedia packages etc...
<ajmitch> Diablo-D3: remember that stuff is split into main & universe because of things like commercial support for main
<Diablo-D3> slomo: multimedia doesnt work
<Diablo-D3> slomo: mainly because there is no 'multimedia'
<Diablo-D3> why are so many kde packages in universe?
<crimsun> so...make a multimedia-desktop package for multiverse
<slomo> Diablo-D3: *sigh*  s/multimedia/$yourneeds/
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: screw it.
<Diablo-D3> all the years I've heard people bitch about debian and now ubuntu, I never quite understood what they meant
<Diablo-D3> I think I do now.
<slomo> and i don't understand your problem... but well ;)
<schweeb> plz end that there.
<Amaranth> Diablo-D3: So many kde packages are in universe because if it's in main it means canonical is willing to provide commercial support for it and the ubuntu devs are willing to provide security fixes for 3 years.
<schweeb> there's a difference between not meeting your needs and not meeting your needs OOB
<phlaegel> slomo: I can't find a diff for that liferea fix. It's not in the changelog, and my cvs skills are, uh, lacking. Is it not possible to just update to rc3?
<schweeb> if you're too lazy to make a metapackage
<schweeb> make a shell script
<schweeb> with "apt-get install blah1 blah2 blah3"
<Diablo-D3> schweeb: heh
<Diablo-D3> a metapackage wouldnt be so bad, maybe
<slomo> phlaegel: sadly no... we could make a backport but that's probably not enough in this case
<Diablo-D3> except people would still need to enable universe to do it
<schweeb> your point?
<Diablo-D3> maybe universe needs to be able to be easier enabled by noobs?
<schweeb> it is easier enabled
<schweeb> and well documented
<schweeb> s/easier/easily/
<ajmitch> Diablo-D3: like in g-a-i, where it just asks you currently?
<Diablo-D3> can I double click something to enable it?
<schweeb> umm
<crimsun> I was just going to mention g-a-i
<schweeb> not double click...
<Diablo-D3> what is g-a-i?
<schweeb> double click would be retarded.
<crimsun> Applications> Add Applications
<crimsun> aka gnome-app-install
<Diablo-D3> ahh, I don't use gnome
<crimsun> Adept then?
<Diablo-D3> last time I did use ubuntu's gnome, I didn't see such a thing
<Diablo-D3> is that new?
<crimsun> it's new in Breezy.
<Diablo-D3> okay
* Diablo-D3 needs to get a new livecd to play with it
<schweeb> the sources configurator allows you to pretty easily add universe
<schweeb> and, it's documented in the wiki, and I'm fairly sure it's in the Ubuntu official howto as well
<LaserJock> and it's a whole heck of a lot easier than Windows so I think the newbs can handle it ;-)
<Diablo-D3> but noobs dont know what wikis are
<Diablo-D3> nor do they know what official howtos are
<Amaranth> do they know how to read firefox's home page?
<Diablo-D3> so unless its included on some easy to find manual defaultly installed, noobs dont know how to use it.
<schweeb> it's linked from your frigging default ffox homepage.  can't get much easier than that
<LaserJock> Diablo-D3: dude, I went System->Help and then Ubuntu Starter Guide --> Installing Applications and it was there
<schweeb> if someone's a n00b, and they're looking for a specific app, they're going to have to do SOME reading
<Diablo-D3> schweeb: that seems too difficult.
<slomo> phlaegel: i can't find it too :(
<LaserJock> Diablo-D3: it is way easier than Windows so I don't see how it is difficult for a newb
<Diablo-D3> does this starter guide require an internet connection?
<slomo> phlaegel: i ask for a liferea backport
<LaserJock> Diablo-D3: no
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Diablo-D3> I havent seen the firefox startup page, whats the url for it?
<schweeb> file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
<xhaker> that why he doesn't know
<xhaker> thats*
<xhaker> reading that page can really enlighten Diablo-D3 exponentially
<slomo> hehe
<Diablo-D3> well
<Diablo-D3> for one
<Diablo-D3> that isnt in the ubuntu-artwork package.
<Diablo-D3> oh, the filename changed
<Diablo-D3> file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index-ubuntu.html
<Diablo-D3> schweeb: was that a typo, or did it really change?
<LaserJock> Diablo-D3: it is in ubuntu-docs
<schweeb> from hoary? it probably changed
<Diablo-D3> LaserJock: nope, I already have ubuntu-docs installed and the file didnt exist
<schweeb> I'm running breezy
<Diablo-D3> I'm running dapper
<Diablo-D3> and thats the file dapper has
<LaserJock> Diablo-D3: it's on breezy
<ajmitch> ubuntu-docs: /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
<ajmitch> for breezy
<Diablo-D3> well, this leads to a problem
<ajmitch> not that it matters
<Diablo-D3> what happens when someone updates to dapper?
<Diablo-D3> wont their firefox break?
<LaserJock> Diablo-D3: anyway, it is in System--> Help too
<schweeb> you can only help people so much before they have to learn how to help themselves.
<Diablo-D3> schweeb: then 90% of people shouldnt have computers
<schweeb> 90% of people need to know how to help themselves.
<schweeb> teach a man to fish... etc...
<Diablo-D3> And theres no way of teaching them how to do that, schweeb
<Diablo-D3> (I blame the schools, but whatever)
<LaserJock> Diablo-D3: How hard is System --> Help --> Ubuntu Guide? They have to do the same thing in Windows?
<Diablo-D3> LaserJock: most windows users dont even know windows has a help system
<schweeb> sounds like he wants wizards galore.  wizards are asinine
<Diablo-D3> honostly, I don't know what I want.
<schweeb> that's a user base problem, not a OS problem
<Diablo-D3> I started using linux when the 2.0.x kernel was popular
<kjcole> Jumping right in: The problem is that Gates et al marketed a power tool as a toy.  If you get an electric circular saw, you can create beautiful things, but reasonably intelligent people know they might need to study a bit before they slice off their fingers...
<Diablo-D3> back when slack 3 and debian slink were popular
<schweeb> your point?
<Diablo-D3> I do everything in an xterm, schweeb
<Diablo-D3> and I know noobs wouldnt even know where to begin with an xterm.
<kjcole> Same's true of computers: RTFM is a *good* thing. ;-)
<schweeb> I still don't see a point here
<Diablo-D3> and I think bill gates, spending millions of dollars each year on UI reesearch, gets this.
<kjcole> (Of course, I still find man pages to be not the most intuitively designed documentation...)
<schweeb> you're pointing to an xterm, and we just pointed you towards system>help... I see no correlation
<LaserJock> I thought Gates just stole everybody else's million dollar UI research ;P
<Diablo-D3> LaserJock: ;)
<Diablo-D3> schweeb: I'm saying I don't even understand how noobs work.
<Diablo-D3> I just know how linux works now isn't good enough
<kjcole> Well I did say "et al".
<LaserJock> Diablo-D3: why?
<Diablo-D3> it needs to be easier than windows
<sistpoty> he, I've got a really fancy ui of new kvirc3 here, where you can click on colorful stuff and that. and still I'd prefer a manpage *g*
<schweeb> I would put good money on the fact that my parents could just as easily use a gnome/ubuntu desktop as they could their current windows system
<LaserJock> Diablo-D3: I think it is easier than Windows
<schweeb> only problem is they can't install windows binaries
<LaserJock> Diablo-D3: that is what I was trying to tell you
<schweeb> LaserJock: I agree
<schweeb> for the most part
<Diablo-D3> okay, we need an experiment
<schweeb> UI consistancy in GNOME is years ahead.
<Diablo-D3> go find the stupidest most ignorant user you can find (ie, average windows user), and hand them an ubuntu live cd
<bipolar> is anyone working on mysql 5 packages? I really need at least the query browser and administrator.
<kjcole> Easier...  A lot of what people consider "easy" about windows is simply what's been hammered into them.  I attended a presentation comparing productivity of average people using a mouse versus the same people using a well-designed keystroke sequence.
<LaserJock> In Windows I have to search the web for software and see if it is any good and make sure it doesn't have any viruses or spybots or whatever and that it is free
<kjcole> Users BELIEVED themselves to be more productive with the mouse, and were surprised to learn otherwise.
<Diablo-D3> kjcole: no kidding, I find the mouse to be a horrd thing
<LaserJock> In Linux I can open up Synaptic, get the universe repo and I have thousands of programs at my finger tips
<Diablo-D3> it has one use only, and thats for quake.
<xhaker> Diablo-D3, credit goes to the good developers that make software acessible from the keyboard
<Diablo-D3> xhaker: no kidding
<Diablo-D3> btw, I'd like to mention that quake players that use the keyboard only are amazing
<Diablo-D3> you can't beat them ;)
<schweeb> no.  a balanced coordination of mouse and keyboard use can be very efficient
<xhaker> hah.. they should use gamepads
<schweeb> mouse is good at certain things quickly, keyboard is good at others
<Diablo-D3> xhaker: not enough buttons
<xhaker> the keyboards can wear off lol
<Diablo-D3> that, and wasd is faster than a dpad
<kjcole> A group of us in DC just installed Edubuntu in two libraries for patron use.  One library is in a well-to-do neighborhood, the other a bit more "marginal".  So far, people are able to do the basic stuff without much of an issue.
<Diablo-D3> kjcole: by marginal you mean a ghetto, right?
<kjcole> Diablo-D3, tough call.  Not exactly.  Downtrodden, but gentrifying.  Highly mixed in terms of income.  The library itself is sort of a hell-hole, but the area around it is improving rapidly.
<phlaegel> slomo: ok, reading diffs of liferea's favicon code hasn't helped me find the fix. I'm giving up. :-)
<Riddell> siretart: about?
<Diablo-D3> kjcole: I'd actually like to see the experiment done in a real ghetto
<Diablo-D3> you know, the stereotypical ghetto with african americans, and drug problems, and gangs, and graffiti, and pimped out rides
<kjcole> Diablo-D3: Workin' on it. ;-)
<Diablo-D3> the kind rap stars think they came from
<Riddell> anyone else having problems uploading to revu?
<Diablo-D3> (most, if not all rap stars, grew up in a middle class area, they wouldnt know a gang if they tripped over one and had their ass beat into the ground for it)
<sistpoty> Riddell: do you have problems with revu?
<jpatrick> sistpoty: I am
<sistpoty> jpatrick: what's your prob?
<jpatrick> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer
<sistpoty> jpatrick: mom. I'll investigate ;)
<sistpoty> jpatrick: what did you try to upload?
<kjcole> Diablo-D3: There's an area around where I work that's pretty much pure ghetto, but there are "projects" to keep the kids away from drugs, guns, spraypaint, etc.  I'm trying to convince them that maybe they can improve their crappy little computer labs without incurring a huge debt.
<kjcole> (So far, not a lot of luck, though.)
<jpatrick> sistpoty: ksplash-engine-moodin
<jpatrick> sistpoty: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=842
<sistpoty> jpatrick: there are files left over... I'll clear them
<jpatrick> sistpoty: thanks :)
<sistpoty> jpatrick: please retry uploading
<jpatrick> Riddell, sistpoty: working now :)
<sistpoty> :)
<Riddell> jpatrick: woo!
<sistpoty> wow. there are about 30 postgresql-threads running... either revu/mom-page is really busy or postgresql got somehow stuck
<thierry> bmonty_laptop : crap, I opened about 10 bugs last week with 10 .patch
<bmonty_laptop> thierry: you should get the source packages, make your changes, create a new source package and then debdiff
<thierry> bmonty_laptop : what I usualy do is getting the source, making the changes, dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot -S and debdiff the two .odc (or something like) file I get
<thierry> but when debdiffing, I put the output in a .patch... I'll just have to put it in a .debdiff
<bmonty_laptop> a debdiff is essentially a patch
<thierry> bmonty_laptop : ok but we can .debdiff with it anyway right?
<bmonty_laptop> thierry: yes
<thierry> good
<thierry> bmonty_laptop : I would be grateful if you could upload the patch you changed to the bug I opened
<bmonty_laptop> thierry: np
<mirak> hi
<mirak> is is possible to have rtorrent from debian unstable into ubuntu ?
<slomo> sure
<mirak> slomo: what must I do ?
<slomo> waiting ;)
<slomo> it's already in dapper
<mirak> slomo: oh ! I can use dapper source and build it ?
<slomo> yes
<mirak> I was using debian sources
<mirak> it dapper very unstable actually ?
<slomo> they're the same ;)
<slomo> no, works fine here
<mirak> ok
<mirak> what feature is ther ein it ?
<mirak> some special feature
<mirak> ?
<slomo> ?
<slomo> what do you mean?
<mirak> !
<mirak> gnome 2.650
<mirak> for exemple
<slomo> gnome 2.13.2 ;)
<mirak> someting awesome
<mirak> ok
<mirak> ^^
<mirak> slomo: do you have a sources.list line for dapper ?
<slomo> sed -i 's;breezy;dapper;g' /etc/apt/sources.list
<slomo> ;)
<mirak> it's ok
<mirak> I used one p
<mirak> daper
<mirak> :p
<mirak> I am trying to use    APT::Default-Release "breezy";  in /etc/apt.conf but it doesn't work anymore.
<bmonty_laptop> thierry: done
<LaserJock> can I use "bzr pull" to update my working copy?
<bmonty_laptop> crimsum: did you see elmo's message about differing .orig.tar.gz files for sync requests?
<bmonty_laptop> ^--crimsun
<bmonty_laptop> I used bzr merge
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: right, just tried that. I still haven't gotten the hang of cvs/svn/bzr
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: cvs I'm ok with, and bzr seems similar to me so far
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: that's my problem, I haven't learned cvs yet
<mirak> even when I put   APT::Default-Release "breezy";  in /etc/apt/apt.conf , it doesn't default to breezy . anyone have same issue ?
<LaserJock> mirak: do you have breezy in your sources.list?
<mirak> yep
<mirak> I have dapper
<mirak> also in it
<LaserJock> mirak: both or just dapper
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: there are *lots* of CVS tutorials on the net if you need to play with it
<mirak> but when I dust-upgrade it tries to install dapper package
<mirak> I have both
<LaserJock> mirak: i think you might need to use pinning
<bmonty_laptop> mirak: don't put both breezy and dapper in your sources.list
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: yeah, yeah. It's getting time to go through them that is the problem ;-)
<mirak> bmonty_laptop: I know what I am doing, I did it on debian
<mirak> bmonty_laptop: dist upgrade should not try to install daper packages
<mirak> I want to get some sources plus the dependencies
<LaserJock> mirak: do you want just a couple dapper packages? you might just download them and install with dpkg -i
<mirak> LaserJock: I prefer build them
<mirak> LaserJock: but I might do that
<bmonty_laptop> mirak: well if you know what you are doing, have fun :)
<mirak> since I don't succed in doing something elese
<mirak> else
<mirak> I just don't know why the APT::Default-Release "breezy"; technic doesn't work anymore
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: I'm thinking of setting up a SVN repository for holding all my journal articles, etc. for work and then I can get them from anywhere
<mirak> bmonty_laptop: hem a dist-upgrade from breezy to dapper should update a load of stuff isn't it ?
<mirak> it only suggest to download 20 packages actually
<mirak> 20 megs
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: I haven't tried that in awhile, but last time I did it wasn't an easy process
<bmonty_laptop> acutally getting the svn repo going was easy, but getting remote access to it wasn't
<bmonty_laptop> mirak: I don't know, I've never done a dist-upgrade to dapper, but there isn't a huge number of packages that have changed yet
<bmonty_laptop> cya all later
<sistpoty> cya bmonty_laptop:
<mirak> is it sucide to use dapper ?
<slomo> no
<sistpoty> hi slomo
<slomo> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> ghc6 baild out on ia-64... and I don't have the slightest clue :(
<sistpoty> s/baild/bails/
<slomo> that's bad :(
<sistpoty> yep
<sistpoty> mind to take a look at the build-log?
<slomo> but i know nothing about ia64 :/ can you give me the url to the buildlog?
<sistpoty> mom
<sistpoty> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/ghc6/6.4.1-1ubuntu2/
<sistpoty> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/ghc6/6.4.1-1ubuntu2/ghc6_6.4.1-1ubuntu2_20051117-2130-ia64-failed.gz
<sistpoty> it was tried two times... and build process was terminated two times. very strange
<slomo> oom?
<slomo> i would ask a buildd admin about it...
<sistpoty> slomo will do... who bootstrapped ghc6 last time? was it infinity?
<slomo> yes
<sistpoty> ok, then I think I know whom to ask :)
<sistpoty> hi lamont
<lamont> hi
<sistpoty> lamont: do you happen to have any clue about ghc6 on ia64?
<sistpoty> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/ghc6/6.4.1-1ubuntu2/ghc6_6.4.1-1ubuntu2_20051117-2130-ia64-failed.gz
<sistpoty> lamont: strange thing is, that it pulls in 6.4.1-1ubuntu1, which never built (at least not the one for dapper)
<slomo> sistpoty: it built fine on ia64
<sistpoty> slomo: it did? did i miss s.th.?
<slomo> probably :) look at the buildlogs ;)
<slomo> ubuntu1 built, ubuntu2 failed
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-24
<sistpoty> args. it did... and then it failed. even stranger
<sistpoty> this actually was a one line patch which had nothing to do with ghc6...
<sistpoty> (only tail -n +2 instead of tail +2)
<sistpoty> hm... since it does 2-phase bootstrapping, i guess a) ghc6 w. gcc4 can no longer rebuild itself or b) s.th. else changed and caused the fail
<sistpoty> but i guess b) might be a little bit more likely *hope*
<slomo> a) would be really bad :/
<sistpoty> slomo: do you have access to a 64bit arch?
<slomo> amd64, yes
<sistpoty> I have read some bugs about ghc6 + 64bit in general
<sistpoty> slomo would you eventually try to rebuild ghc6 with newest dapper ghc6 there?
<slomo> sure... tomorrow
<slomo> oh wait
<sistpoty> but only if you have enough time... it will take... hours! :)
<slomo> now ;)
<slomo> uh
<slomo> tomorrow :P
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> cool, thx.
<slomo> really hours?
<sistpoty> yep... mom, I'll take a look how long the buildd took
<sistpoty> slomo: buildd took 2:02h
<slomo> ok
<sistpoty> (amd64)
<sistpoty> thx slomo
<raphink> hello :)
<crimsun> hi
<raphink> hi crimsun :)
<crimsun> 2.6.12-9 is so much more usable than 2.6.15-3 :)
<raphink> crimsun: I've got a pb with a package in which manpages won't install
<raphink> would you help me with it?
<crimsun> sure, what's up?
<raphink> ok
<raphink> i'll show you the debian/rules
<raphink> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4725
<raphink> here it is
<raphink> I just tried with two manpages so far
<raphink> but none will install
<crimsun> (sec, dapper pbuilder is updating)
<raphink> ok :)
<crimsun> ok, show me the dpkg-buildpackage run
<raphink> ok wait a min
<raphink> I'll run it
<raphink> huh
<raphink> it crashes
<raphink> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4726
<raphink> debuild works
<raphink> so i didn't try dpkg-buildpackage
<raphink> crimsun: ^^
<crimsun> the output from debuild, then
<crimsun> (fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage ...)
<raphink> entire one?
<raphink> oh yeah fakeroot LOl
<raphink> it's late ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> you want the entire debuild output?
<raphink> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4727
<raphink> there
<raphink> lines 148 and 149 build the docbooks
<raphink> but it doesn't seem to install them
<crimsun> where is docbook2x-man placing the generated man pages?
<raphink> in debian i guess
<crimsun> can you check?
<raphink> the docbook files are there
<raphink> well I clean them afterwards
<raphink> so i can't really check
<crimsun> after you run debuild?
<raphink> hmm
<crimsun> note that your build:: extension is actually called after dh_clean -k
<crimsun> (so it's called twice)
<raphink> they're not in the sources after i run debuild
<raphink> yes
<raphink> so clean:: should be defined before build:: ?
<crimsun> (that's not the issue)
<crimsun> I'm just trying to locate your generated man pages
<raphink> ok
<raphink> they are in the root :(
<raphink> not in debian/
<raphink> that's weird
<crimsun> :)
<raphink> I mean
<raphink> I have the same kind of code for knmap
<raphink> and the docbooks don't end up in the root
<raphink> :s
<raphink> indeed if they are bult in the root it's obvious they won't be installed though
<raphink> :(
<crimsun> note also that those two generated man pages aren't being passed to dh_installman
<raphink> well because they're not created in the right place I guess
<crimsun> right
<raphink> I'm trying to see where knmap creates the manpages from the docbook
<raphink> well knmap also creates it in the root
<raphink> so that's fine
<raphink> it's not the pb
<crimsun> but is the filename called knmap.1?
<raphink> yes
<crimsun> see, that's the difference
<raphink> why?
<crimsun> the two man pages that are generated don't match the package name
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> they are called kim_album.1 and kim_compress.1
<raphink> maybe I can't put "_" in manpages names
<crimsun> therefore you have to pass them explicitly: dh_installman -pkim kim_album.1 kim_compress.1
<crimsun> sure you can
<crimsun> (see apt_preferences)
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> so you mean its this that it wrong :
<raphink> DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_kim_album = kim_album.1
<raphink> DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_kim_compress = kim_compress.1
<raphink> these lines don't work ?
<crimsun> you have packages named kim_album and kim_compress?
<crimsun> (which would be illegal anyhow, since _ is a delimiter for version)
<raphink> not packages but binaries
<raphink> I have 14 binaires in this package
<raphink> so I need one package for each
<crimsun> yes, that's wrong
<crimsun> because you have no package called kim_album or kim_compress
<raphink> oh ic
<raphink> so how should I do that ?
<raphink> so I can have one manpage for each binary in my package
<crimsun> DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES := kim_album.1 kim_compress.1
<raphink> ok
<raphink> with the : ?
<crimsun> I would, but I don't think it matters
<crimsun> (I'm not a cdbs guru)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> I'll try that
<crimsun> (though it really has more to do with debhelper than cdbs)
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> let's see ;)
<sistpoty> crimsun: may I beg you to upload a package for me?
<crimsun> sistpoty: sure
<sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/uploads/ <- nvtv (source already in the archives)
<raphink> didn't work crimsun :(
<raphink> DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES := kim_album.1 kim_compress.1
<raphink> shouldn't it be :
<raphink> DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES := kim_album.1 kim_compress.1
<raphink> oosps sorry
<raphink> DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_kim = kim_album.1 kim_compress.1
<raphink> ?
<raphink> yeah :)
<raphink> it works
<raphink> but not in man:/ in konqueror
<raphink> only in console it seems
<sistpoty> you can do man in konqueror? cool :)
<crimsun> err, right, I omitted the _package
<raphink> yep ;)
<raphink> sistpoty: but not all mans, only the kde ones I think
<crimsun> you could also have generated debian/manpages with kim_album.1 and kim_compress.1 as the contents
<raphink> ic
<raphink> haha I'm stupid
<raphink> LOOOOOOOOOOOL
<raphink> I'm sshed on my comp, i'm not home
<sistpoty> hehe
<raphink> so obviously when I installed the package to test it, I did it on my comp there
<raphink> not here
<raphink> so the man worked in console THERE
<raphink> but not in the GUI HERE ;)
<raphink> haha
<raphink> doh
<raphink> ok well so at least it works
<raphink> now I'm not sure of the quality of my manpages :(
<raphink> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4729
<raphink> is this ^^ good enough for a manapge?
<crimsun> (sec)
<sistpoty> raphink: quite good... maybe you should explain the "quality" usage a little bit better
<raphink> well i'm not the upstream author
<raphink> so it's not easy for me
<raphink> I have to decrypt each script to find out about options
<sistpoty> raphink: as in kim_compress [ -quality  <quality> ]  (or s.th.)
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> i'm not sure of the syntax in docbook to write that
<crimsun> sistpoty: uploaded
<sistpoty> crimsun: thx
<crimsun> np
<raphink> I used
<raphink>   <refsynopsisdiv>
<raphink>     <cmdsynopsis>
<raphink>       <command>kim_compress</command>
<raphink>       <arg choice="opt">
<raphink>         <option>quality</option>
<raphink>       </arg>
<raphink>       <arg >image files</arg>
<raphink>     </cmdsynopsis>
<raphink>   </refsynopsisdiv>
<raphink> not sure this is right
<raphink> (sorry for the little flood)
<raphink> image files are mandatory
<raphink> but -quality is an option
<raphink> mogrify -quality $QUALITY "$FILE"
<sistpoty> raphink: sorry, haven't got really much experience with sgml... I'll try to find an example
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I can't find examples so it's not easy ;)
<raphink> it's apity since all I need to do in this package still is manpages
<sistpoty> raphink: perhaps <arg choice="opt"><option>quality<option><replaceable>n</replaceable>
<raphink> hmm
<sistpoty> i have no clue if this actually works... i just found it somewhere ;)
<raphink> sistpoty: when it says :
<raphink> FILE="";
<raphink> QUALITY="$1";
<raphink> DIR="$2";
<raphink> how are these arguments taken ?
<sistpoty> quality is first argument, dir second... unless there is s.th. like "shift" in it
<raphink> doh I could look in the .desktop to find the answers ;)
<raphink> kim_compress 80 %D
<raphink> that's the kind of entries in teh .desktop files
<raphink> or
<raphink> kim_compress 80 %D
<raphink> oops
<raphink> it's
<raphink> kim_compress 80 %D
<raphink> hmm with % U in the end ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> so I think it must be : kim_compress quality directory image_files
<raphink> so it should be written
<sistpoty> yep... seems so
<raphink> kim_compress [quality]  [directory]  [image files]  ...
<raphink> right?
<raphink> just like lintian is :
<raphink> lintian [action]  [options]  [packages]  ...
<sistpoty> yep. seems good
<raphink> :)
<sistpoty> crimsun: did you try to upload ghc6? that's already there ;)
<crimsun> sistpoty: yes, I punted whatever was in the directory
<crimsun> sorry about the double upload
<sistpoty> crimsun: np... katie rejected it
<sistpoty> crimsun: maybe i should have been more clear ;)
<crimsun> yeah, I've bombed two duplicates in the past day, argh
<ajmitch> slomo_: liferea (0.9.7b+test1.0rc3-1ubuntu1) -- yay for ugly versioning ;)
<sistpoty> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
* ajmitch thinks that people should just do 1.0rcX..
<ajmitch> then 1.0rel when it's released :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<raphink> sistpoty: how about that ? http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4732
<sistpoty> raphink: looks good to me
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> I'm gonna do them this way :)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> sistpoty: since I'm going to have many docbooks
<raphink> is it fine if I create a debian/man/ dir
<raphink> and put them there so it's cleaner?
<sistpoty> raphink: that's up to you ;)
<raphink> ok :)
<sistpoty> raphink: as long as the created files are cleaned
<raphink> of course ;)
<raphink> i just dont' want debian/ to be overcrowded with manpages ;)
<raphink> I think files should be easily found in it
<raphink> ooo I think I'll finish tomorrow ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<raphink> heh ;)
<raphink> 6 manpages done ...
<raphink> 8 to go
<sistpoty> raphink: i just took a look at toutf8 again
<sistpoty> raphink: there isn't anything arch-specific built, is there?
<raphink> sistpoty: I uploaded it again since the dev produced a new version with german
<raphink> nope sistpoty
<raphink> it's just .desktop files
<raphink> so only bin deps and that's it
<raphink> why?
<sistpoty> then it should be Architecture: all (instead of any)
<raphink> oh ic
<raphink> I'll correct it immediatly
<sistpoty> :)
<raphink> Now running lintian...
<raphink> W: toutf8 source: build-depends-without-arch-dep
<raphink> since I put all
<raphink> I mean Architecture : all
<raphink> but I need cdbs to build ;)
<raphink> is taht fine?
<sistpoty> erm... no... there is some way to do it. but I don't know the cdbs way right now ;)
<raphink> I mean obviously the binary doesnt' require a specific arch, but the build does since I use cdbs
<ajmitch> Build-Depends-Indep
<raphink> ajmitch: where do i put that?
<ajmitch> instead of Build-Depends
<sistpoty> thx ajmitch:
<raphink> ok
<raphink> thanks much ajmitch
<raphink> sistpoty: just uploaded it again ;)
<raphink> with Architecture:all and Build-Depends-Indep
<sistpoty> he, have to wait ~4 mins ;) (cron runs every 5 mins to process incoming packages on revu)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> i've worked again on kio-sword and knmap
<raphink> i think they should be fine by now
<raphink> and kim is not ready since I have to finish all these manpages ;)
<sistpoty> ok
<raphink> :)
<sistpoty> but I can't promise I'll review all of them today ;)
<ajmitch> sigh, I think my ISP's transparent proxy is breaking things badly today
<sistpoty> omg
<raphink> ajmitch: :( sorry to hear that
<ajmitch> lots of packages are failing to fetch, & it stops at the same place
<raphink> sistpoty: I guess kim should also be Architecture:all since it's a collection of bash scripts ;)
<sistpoty> raphink: yep
<sistpoty> raphink: everything that doesn't get binary/arch-specific stuff built should be "all"
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<raphink> sistpoty: toutf8 is up now :)
<sistpoty> raphink: toutf8 advocated ;)
<raphink> thanks sistpoty :)
<sistpoty> thanks for your contribution, raphink
<raphink> it's a pleasure :)
<ajmitch> I guess I can't upload but I can still prepare stuff & still review ;)
<raphink> I hope I can contribute more in the future :)
<sistpoty> :)
<crimsun> ajmitch: you can upload to universe, though?
<ajmitch> crimsun: nope
<crimsun> gah
<ajmitch> raphink: perhaps toutf8 could be named better to indicate it's for konqueror?
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> well that's the name the dev gave to it
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> but we often rename things to fit with policy :)
<raphink> if you search for konqueror, you'll find toutf8
<raphink> ok
<raphink> hmm
<ajmitch> crimsun: since I had to replace my gpg key I can't do anything
<raphink> konq-toutf8 ?
<raphink> I'll see about that tomorow
<ajmitch> if Riddell was around still you could check with him
<raphink> it's too late now ;)
<raphink> I'll ask Riddell tomorrow ;)
<ajmitch> he'd know more than I would about KDE naming :)
<sistpoty> for sure ;)
<raphink> now it's almost 3AM i need to sleep
<sistpoty> gnight raphink
<raphink> good night
<raphink> :)
* sistpoty still waits for his gf to return home
* ajmitch waits for his sanity to return home
* crimsun decides his sanity got lost in the mail
<zul> damn postal office
<ajmitch> I know I didn't leave it behind in canada, so I suspect I never took it with me in the first place
<Riddell> hmm?
<ajmitch> Riddell: you're up late
<ajmitch> just a question about naming a small package for konqueror service menus
<Riddell> ajmitch: I have flight-1 candidate CDs to test
<Riddell> konq-toutf8 seems sensible to me
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> lucky you, I hope it goes smoothly :)
<sistpoty> I'm off to bed now... gn8
<magnon> siretart: ping
<magnon> might be a tad early :)
<LaserJock> MOTUScience folks check out the wiki, I added source package lists from lucas's program
<minghua> LaserJock: nice list
* minghua wonders why boot-floopies is in math section though
<LaserJock> minghua: hmm, I haven't completely checked it out. I'm sure there are some bugs ;-)
<LaserJock> I wanted a place where we can see what we have and especially the debian-ubuntu version comparison
<minghua> Hmm, and tetex-bin and tetex-base is not in the TeX section list
<LaserJock> they are in main I think
<minghua> I see
<LaserJock> I specifically wanted to just do universe
<LaserJock> but it might be worth having another list for main, etc. so we can get a fuller picture
<zakame> hi all
<crimsun> hi
<zakame> heh, brownout here in my locality :(
<zakame> can any motu please revu libmemcache? thanks in advance :)
<Kmirno> Hello someone in USA ?
<Kmirno> Could someone in USA please wget http://tools.letsgozik.com/bigtest and tell me the ko/s rate ?
<Kmirno> (don't need to d/l it fully, just need the rate)
<zakame> hmmm, does ubuntu have an equivalent of packages.qa.debian.org? or is this served by launchpad?
<minghua> Am I the only one getting "can't find /etc/shadow" error in pbuilder chroot?
<crimsun> nope
<minghua> zakame: Not that I'm aware of
<crimsun> minghua: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338976
<crimsun> just needs to be merged
<minghua> crimsun: thanks for the pointer
<crimsun> ogra actually pointed it to me :)
<minghua> crimsun: so the current work around is just login and touch /etc/passwd?
* minghua hopes that would work
<minghua> how did you guys solve this problem?
<minghua> Hmm, maybe I can just modify the pbuilder script myself
<minghua> that would be dirty though...
<crimsun> modifying it per Markus Kolb's 2-line patch is recommended until someone merges 0.139
<minghua> crimsun: yeah, I figure that would be easier than other solutions
<minghua> crimsun: thanks a lot :-)
<crimsun> np
<minghua_> so dapper cleaned up /usr/X11R6/ completely?  Gah.
<minghua_> seems I've got a tough package to merge, then
<sivang> mornig all
<crimsun> hi
<Gloubiboulga> Is there any way to clean a chroot ?
<Kmirno> Gloubiboulga: rm -Rf is pretty good
<Gloubiboulga> Kmirno: sure :)
<Gloubiboulga> but is there an other way ?
<minghua_> hardcoded /usr/X11R6/include/X11/ path is EVIL
<crimsun> quite
<minghua_> Gloubiboulga: for pbuilder there is an clean command, but it will clean your cache as well
<minghua_> so I won't use it again :-(
<Gloubiboulga> so rm -Rf is the solution
<siretart> Gloubiboulga: some people are proposing using lvm, and working on snapshopts. that way you can recreate a clean chroot easily by doing the 'lvcreate -s /dev/vg00/chroots ... ' magic
<zakame> hello all
<Gloubiboulga> siretart: seems interesting
<Gloubiboulga> I'll have a look at this
<siretart> Gloubiboulga: it uses copy on write (cow) techniques. So i/o operations are very cheap
<zakame> cow!
* siretart points to the package 'cowdancer'
<asbin> hi everybody
<asbin> I have some questions about how to make a new package for ubunutu ...
<asbin> is it the right place ?
<zakame> asbin: have you read DeveloperResources on the wiki? :)
<asbin> yes I have read a lot of pages on the wiki, but I have not found all answers ;)
<asbin> I am one of the developpers of GeeXboX, a multimedia player
<zakame> asbin: ooh
<asbin> and I maintain the deb. packages, so my questions are not about how to make a package, but how to put it in ubuntu (and/or Debian) repository
<zakame> ah
<asbin> I've also a package for ushare, a lightweight UPnP A/V Media Server, that we can use with geexbox (and others upnp clients..)
<zakame> what's the url for this?
<asbin> http://www.geexbox.org and http://ushare.geexbox.org
<asbin> I've tried to upload ushare on REVU, but I was'nt in the database at this moment (now it's ok, but files are still on the server)
<zakame> hmm, have you gotten your gpg key signed?
<asbin> yes, and sent it by email ...
<asbin> but I've upload the source/package on REVU to soon :(
<minghua_> asbin: you should receive a reply about your key getting added to revu keyring
<asbin> yes, i've received it ;)
<siretart> asbin: are u talking about ushare?
<asbin> yes
<zakame> hmm, it's not there in revu... does it go by that name?
<siretart> asbin: done
<asbin> ok. thank you !
<siretart> who uploaded ksplash-engine-moodin?
<jpatrick> siretart: I did
<asbin> should I upload source+package or just the package ?
<siretart> jpatrick: please don't upload binary packages, we can only process sourceful uploads!
<siretart> asbin: just the source
<siretart> and please always with FULL source (i.e. with .orig.tar.gz)
<jpatrick> siretart: sorry
<asbin> ok ;)
<zakame> there, i see ushare already
<siretart> jpatrick: no problem. I just deleted your upload, because there was no source included
<jpatrick> siretart: how do I stop the .deb from being uploaded?
<siretart> sure, I just run process_uploads manually ;)
<siretart> jpatrick: use `dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa`, just as instructed on the wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
* minghua_ sees his just uploaded package :-)
<zakame> asbin: hmmm, your .diff.gz is just a diff on changelog?  where's the ./debian?
<zakame> asbin: ah, it's in the .orig.tar.gz...
<minghua_> if I made my own merge, I should change the "MoM" line from scott's page to the REVU page of my uploaded package, right?
<asbin> yes, as I'm one of the maintainer, debian dir is on the arch repository
<siretart> please rather dont use revu for merges for now
<siretart> revu is not that suited for that kind of work, until we dont can see the debdiffs directly
<zakame> asbin: is this debian-dir on a separate version/branch?
<siretart> I'm working on that, but dont expect results too soon
<zakame> minghua_: or a debdiff
<jpatrick> siretart: so full command is: dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -kSOMEKEY
<mirak> minghua_: generally I find it a bit dumb to have all path hardcoded at compilation
<siretart> jpatrick: yes, that would work
* siretart prefers debuild, btw
* jpatrick repackages
<minghua_> siretart: ah, sorry, I won't use REVU next time
<jpatrick> siretart: reuploading
<minghua_> mirak: yeah, but in this case it's not that bad, everything are in a Make.dep file
<siretart> minghua_: no need to sorry, we really appreciate your work
<siretart> minghua_: I just don't think that revu will help to get your contribution processed quickly
<asbin> Ok, great, and now that the package is on REVU, and when everything will be ok, what can I do to put it on ubuntu repository ?
<zakame> indeed, there seems to be a backlog of NEW packages :(
<jpatrick> siretart: I thought it had a *.orig.tar.gz
<minghua_> the MOTOToMerge page says I need to get my name and email white-listed on dapper-changes, how can I do that?
<siretart> jpatrick: check the _source.changes file
<siretart> minghua_: I think wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads explains the process
<siretart> minghua_: feel free to set a link to that page
<jpatrick> package is there: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=959
<siretart> jpatrick: your package fails to build from source :(
<zakame> siretart: after jpatrick's can you check libmemcache too? :)
<jpatrick> siretart: I should of added ksplash to the control file for build-deps
<minghua_> siretart: My understanding is that I need to apply as new maintainer, is that the only way to get my upload white-listed?
<siretart> minghua_: no, you just need to ask elmo to get you added to the whitelist
<siretart> minghua_: hint: *@ubuntu.com is autowhitelisted, so you 'just' need to become member ;)
<minghua_> siretart: I see, so that's going to be upload@ubuntulinux.org for asking to be added, right?
<siretart> minghua_: I think so, yes
<siretart> morning Fuddl!
<Fuddl> hi siretart
<minghua_> siretart: thanks, I'm going to do that next then
<jpatrick> siretart: reuploaded
<minghua_> good night everyone
* minghua_ goes sleeping
<SloMoSnail> ajmitch: but it's not my fault this time :P btw, new avahi :)
<Lathiat> slomo, ajmitch: mmm i think the major change will be the new comapt libraries
<Lathiat> we should look at some kind of extra extra package that makes the avahi-howl and avahi-bonjour compat libraries also install howl.pc/libdns-sd.so etc
<zakame> hi
<ctd> dear motu, i have found you a new image. http://data.4chan.org/b/src/1132402828160.jpg - love, ctd.
<zakame> buwahaha
<zakame> ctd: actually, that was what I had in mind when I first heard of motu :) thanks for reminding me :))
<Lathiat> ctd: heh
<zakame> hmmm, netatalk doesn't seem to build, build-deps not met as libdb4.2-dev removes heimdal-dev and kerberos4kth-dev, all of which build-depended on by netatalk :(
<zakame> what should I do?
* siretart declares this day as 'long posts on utnubu-discuss'-day
<zakame> eh?
<zakame> siretart: did you pbuilt my libmemcache? if so, thanks :)
<zakame> I saw its page in revu populated with the built debs
<zakame> hey pef :)
<pef> hello
<Gloubiboulga> hi pef
<pef> Gloubiboulga: hi, I'm checking denemo
<Gloubiboulga> thanks pef :)
<Gloubiboulga> is my package that bad pef  ? ;)
<pef> Gloubiboulga: I'm doing more thing in the same time :)
<pef> things
<slomo> zakame: standards version 3.6.2 is sufficient... 3.6.2.X are only versions with cosmetical changes ;)
<zakame> slomo: yes, ajmitch told me that yesterday :)
<pef> Gloubiboulga: updated
<zakame> however, if I see 3.6.5, can I still update that to 3.6.2.1?
<Gloubiboulga> ok pef
<slomo> zakame: 3.6.1.5? sure... but if this is the only change you do don't do it...
<zakame> slomo: ok... as for nss-mdns, that's true
<slomo> zakame: no, you changed more than that... added avahi-daemon to recommends... so it's fine :)
<zakame> actually its 3.6.1 , and for that pkg mdnsresponder doesn't seem to be in dapper anymore
<slomo> zakame: wasn't even in breezy... we have avahi-daemon now
<zakame> slomo: ooh, so you're looking at it now, thanks :)
<zakame> ah ok :)
<slomo> zakame: just a quick look over... when you send me a mail with all pending uploads by you i will process them later today or tomorrow :)
<zakame> slomo: ok, many many thanks :D
<slomo> zakame: slomo@ubuntu.com
<zakame> got it
<Gloubiboulga> pef: new upload
<pef> Gloubiboulga: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/denemo-0511190940/denemo_0.7.4-0ubuntu1.diff lilypond still here ?
<Gloubiboulga> hum...
<Gloubiboulga> something went wrong...
<zakame> slomo, pef: can you check libmemcache at REVU too? thanks :)
<pef> zakame: sure
<zakame> pef: thanks! :)
<Gloubiboulga> pef: LilyPond is dead ;)
<zakame> wb hunger
<hunger> hi zakame.
<zakame> hey bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> hi zakame
<zakame> good night all :D
<raphink> anyone can review my kim packages ? :)
<raphink> please ;)
<hunger> raphink: nope, I won't.
<raphink> :( :(
<slomo_> what is kim?
<raphink> a set a servicemenu scripts for konqueror
<raphink> to manage images
<raphink> like convert, compress, rename, rotate, etc.
<slomo_> hmm... i know nothing about kde but i can review it for everything else tomorrow
<Kyral> slomo_, you made the cowbell package right?
<slomo_> yes
<Kyral> You know if an ebuild for Gentoo exists?
<Kyral> I showed it to a friend
<Kyral> and he loves it, but he runs Gentoo :P
<slomo_> no idea
<slomo_> write one if there is none ;)
<Kyral> I barely have a grasp of Debian Packages, how the heck am I supposed to learn how to make eBuilds?!
<slomo_> ebuilds are easier imho
<Kyral> But it would require me to install Gentoo :P
<slomo_> yes
<Kyral> unless there happen to be eBuild tools for Debian systems :P
<slomo_> well, say him to compile it by hand or open a bug on their bts
<Kyral> wait a second..VMWare released a their "player" for free right?
<Kyral> so if I can make a VMWare image with our legit copy of VMWare in the labs, I can use the player on my computer and emulated Gentoo for these purposes
<Kyral> ironic. As soon as my friends who use Linux found out I can make packages, they want me to make packages for them
<Kyral> Except almost none of them are Debian Packages
<Kyral> ie, my friend wants me to make a Pacman package for Beagle so he can install it on ArchLinux
<siretart> poor Kyral
<siretart> ;)
<Kyral> Its flatterring
<Kyral> :D
<Kyral> Oh are anyone's PBuilders broken as of late?
<slomo_> shadow?
<Kyral> yah
<slomo_> pbuilder login --save-after-login
<slomo_> touch /etc/shadow
<Kyral> cool thanks
<slomo_> fixed it for me
<Kyral> After Kenshin ;P
<lfittl> slomo_: Maybe we could add that information to the PbuilderHowto wiki page?
<Kyral> Should I add a note about multiple ones? At least the way I do it?
<Kyral> Has anyone seen the movie Revolution OS?
<Riddell> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=940 may be ready for upload
<ompaul> Kyral, yes but that would be more a topic for #ubuntu-offtopic more for chats
<ajmitch> +Copyright: 		2005
<ajmitch> +        - Lethalman <lethalman88@gmail.com>
<ajmitch> +        - Slash <immigrant@email.it>
<ajmitch> got to love copyright statements like that ;)
<ompaul> ajmitch, well depends on the software
<ompaul> :-)
<pef> siretart: hello, can you please change my login email on REVU, loic@dev.erodia.net by loic@ubuntu.com ? thanks !
<Riddell> do we only need two reviews for new MOTU packages now?  gwenrename is in ready to upload
<ajmitch> yes
<Riddell> when did that change?
<slomo_> months ago ;)
<LaserJock> I don't suppose I could get a MOTU or 2 to review plotdrop?
<raphink> Riddell: changes applied and uploaded again :)
<Riddell> raphink: to which?
<raphink> Riddell: kio-sword :)
<raphink> the one you reviewed just before ;)
<Riddell> I have reviewed many packages today
<raphink> :)
<raphink> ok I had not seen the other reviews yet sorry
<raphink> i'll work on the other ones soon
<lfittl> siretart: ping
<pef> LaserJock: why not ? :)
<LaserJock> pef: well, I know that you guys are busy so I don't want to be a pain
<pef> LaserJock: I'm reviewing it
<LaserJock> pefa: cool, it's my first package from scratch
<lfittl> pef: If you have time, could you review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=970 too?
<pef> will do the 2 reviews this evening :)
<lfittl> :)
<raphink> Riddell: the dpkg-divert in kim is because some kim functions are redundant with other konqueror servicemenus included in konq-plugins. The original package used a mv to ~ at install and mv from ~ at deinstall. I chose to use dpkg-divert instead.
<foampeac1> hello
<jpatrick> hi
<foampeace> maybe im silly
<foampeace> but i compiled this beep media player alarm
<foampeace> its a deb in the breezy
<foampeace> i just wondering about contributing it
<foampeace> i have the deb package
<jpatrick> foampeace: do you have a GPG Key?
<foampeace> jpatrick: i dont know what that is
<jpatrick> GNU Privacy Guard Key
<foampeace> ok
<foampeace> i just found this source on the web and had to compile and thought it would go well with beep media playe like theone for xmms
<foampeace> because beep seems to be more solid
<foampeace> the beep media play alarm that is
<foampeace> Whats a maintainer
<jpatrick> foampeace: a Debian package builder
<foampeace> oh and i just did this didnt i
<foampeace> hehe :>
<foampeace> are you a master of the universe?
<jpatrick> foampeace: no
<jpatrick> you have to run "gpg --gen-key" in the console
<jpatrick> Make the key
<foampeace> for what
<jpatrick> so you can be added to the uploaders list of REVU
<foampeace> Please select what kind of key you want: (1) DSA and Elgamal (default) (2) DSA (sign only) (5) RSA (sign only)
<raphink> default foampeace
<raphink> foampeace: when you make yourself a key
<raphink> try to launch a lot of programs
<raphink> like music, video, 3D stuff
<foampeace> im sorry?
<foampeace> raphink: you mean submit those?
<raphink> nope foampeace
<raphink> I mean run a lot of programs while creating your key, which is what y'oure doing now
<raphink> to create a key, your computer has to generate random strings
<jpatrick> helps the process
<raphink> the more programs you run at the same time, the more random the strings will be
<raphink> and the better the key will be
<foampeace> heheh
<foampeace> i dont understand
<raphink> anyhow, if you don't run many programs, gpg might tell you to do so
<raphink> well foampeace
<raphink> do you know what a pgp key is?
<foampeace> pgp or gpg?
<tseng> gpg is an implementation of pgp
<foampeace> no i dont but im searching for docs
<raphink> gpg is an open source equivalent of pgp
<raphink> well implementation yes tseng :)
<raphink> foampeace: a pgp (or gpg) key is something that can identify you personaly
<foampeace> im reading this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GPGKey?action=show&redirect=GetYourKeySigned
<raphink> foampeace: with a pgp key, you can sign files or emails
<tseng> uh oh
<tseng> i think i wrote part of that
<raphink> haha
<raphink> ;)
<tseng> you'd better stop while you're ahead
<raphink> foampeace: when you create a key, you set a passphrase (or password) for it
<raphink> so you are the only person able to use your key, since you're the only one knowing the password
<raphink> your key contains informations on you
<foampeace> i want to contribute...so i have to take baby steps here
<raphink> yes foampeace
<jpatrick> foampeace: it also creates a public key
<raphink> foampeace: when you contribute by making packages
<raphink> you have to have a pgp key
<raphink> in order to sign your packages
<raphink> so you can testify that you (and no one else) have been doing this work
<foampeace> pgp or gpg key...doesnt matter?
<raphink> foampeace: you'll use gpg to create a pgp key
<raphink> ;)
<foampeace> ok but i didnt creat the source for this i just made it into a deb
<raphink> you need to sign your deb foampeace
<raphink> so you need a key for that
<foampeace> ok
<foampeace> ill try
<raphink> creating a key doesn't take much time
<jpatrick> foampeace: and you need the key to upload to REVU
<raphink> it's far easier than making packages ;)
<raphink> and you might need your key for many other things than just packaging
<jpatrick> emails, files, etc
<raphink> pgp keys are used to manage trust networks
<raphink> with your key, you can sign other keys
<foampeace> raphink: i the comment to be shown somewhere?
<raphink> when you sign a key, you testify that you know for sure the holder of this key
<raphink> don't put comments foampeace
<raphink> your name will look like this :
<jpatrick> I did
<raphink> First Last (Comment)
<raphink> so if yo uput a comment
<raphink> you'll have to put it everywhere
<raphink> otherwise you won't be able to sign with this id
<raphink> ;)
<foampeace> passphrase is a password?
<raphink> yes foampeace
<jpatrick> foampeace: don't tell it to anyone
<foampeace> ok i made it
<raphink> good
<raphink> now your key can be used for many things
<raphink> you can for example sign your messages in your mail client
<raphink> so people can be sure you are the writer and it's not spam
<raphink> or you can encrypt messages so they can be read only by holders of another given key
<jpatrick> foampeace: run gpg --list-keys to see it
<raphink> etc.?
<raphink> etc.
<foampeace> jpatrick: i have to export the key?
<raphink> you can export it foampeace
<Gloubi|To_Paris> good night
<raphink> so people can find it on the internet
<jpatrick> foampeace: there should be a 'pub' line
<jpatrick> foampeace: like 'pub   1024D/F4944AEE'
<foampeace> yes
<jpatrick> the F4944AEE bit is what you want
<jpatrick> run 'gpg -k keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys $YOURKEYID'
<foampeace> first last name is my "user name" for export?
<foampeace> so its $F4944AEE?
<foampeace> but my own
<foampeace> or without the $ dollar sign
<raphink> you can tell this reference foampeace
<raphink> it's no secret
<raphink> this is your public key
<raphink> so anyone can know it
<raphink> and it's without the $ sign
<raphink> jpatrick just used $YOURKEYID meaning that it's a variable to be replaced by your id
<foampeace> ok i sent the key
<raphink> good :)
<foampeace>  Meet, verify your IDs and exchange fingerprints ?!
<raphink> that's when you meet people
<raphink> for keysigning parties
<raphink> you'll have time to know about this ;)
<jpatrick> night guys
<foampeace> copy the content of public.key...whered this go
<raphink> foampeace: in order to sign to the keyring to upload your package
<raphink> you need to set your email client
<raphink> that's the next step
<raphink> so you can sign emails with your key
<raphink> what email client are you using foampeace ?
<foampeace> just web based email
<foampeace> i need one?
<raphink> that won't make it I'm afraid
<foampeace> i can use one for this
<raphink> I don't think you can sign emails with web interfaces
<raphink> do you use gnome of kde ?
<foampeace> ya i have sylpheed i can try that
<raphink> I won't be able to help you with this. Dunno what it is
<foampeace> know of another?
<raphink> if you answer my question, sure ;)
<raphink> are you using gnome or kde ?
<foampeace> http://pgp.mit.edu/ is where i enter ######## ?
<raphink> ??
<foampeace> i use gnome
<raphink> you could use evolution for ex
<raphink> any gnome user here to support foampeace ? ;)
<foampeace> ya i find it strange
<foampeace> evolitions
<raphink> I don't know many gnome-based clients
<raphink> i don't use gnome
<minghua> raphink: support for what?  finding a email client?
<foampeace> sylpheed supposed to be good
<raphink> minghua: foampeace just created a pgp key
<minghua> raphink: sorry, that part I can't help, I use mutt myself
<raphink> hehe ok
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> I could help with kmail
<raphink> but i'm ignorant of gnome-based solutions
<minghua> but gnome users should consider thunderbird
<foampeace> can you explain what this means? #
<foampeace> can you explain what this means? Copy the content of public.key:
<foampeace> #
<foampeace> Open [WWW]  http://pgp.mit.edu in a browser window.
<raphink> good one, yes
<raphink> what are you doing foampeace ?
<raphink> why do you need that?
<minghua> and I bet you can find thousands of articles about setting up gpg in thunderbird through google
<raphink> yes minghua
<raphink> pretty sure
<foampeace>  Copy the content of public.key:
<foampeace> paste to site
<raphink> foampeace: where did you find that and why do you need to do that?
<foampeace> raphink: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GPGKey?action=show&redirect=GetYourKeySigned
<foampeace> topic is get your key signed
<foampeace> i mean submit your key
<foampeace> ok ill get thunderbird
<raphink> you don't need to go to mit.edu for that
<foampeace> raphink: ok i assume the line before that was the same thing? xport Your Key
<foampeace> gpg --export -a "User Name" > public.key
<raphink> you don't need taht foampeace
<raphink> you're not going to a keysigning party
<foampeace> Using GnuPG:
<foampeace> gpg --send-keys --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com <KEYID>
<raphink> this you did already
<raphink> you just need to set thunderbird now
<raphink> that's it
<foampeace> ya
<foampeace> k
<foampeace> so i can contribute anything with this key beside packages?
<LaserJock> how do I know if my key is in the strong set ?
<Kyral> Keysigning parties are fun :D
<Kyral> LaserJock you have to get it signed by one of the MOTUs I think
<foampeace> Kyral: what are keysigning parties?
<LaserJock> Kyral: only a MOTU?
<Kyral> Like I think mine is b/c dholbach signed it
<Kyral> LaserJock, or someone else in the Strong Set
<raphink> LaserJock: check if you have a direct path to ogra for example
<Kyral> oyah dangit
<Kyral> I gotta sign ogra's too
<raphink> hehe
<Kyral> we exchanged fingerprints at Ubuntu Love
<foampeace> fingerprints in person?
<raphink> LaserJock: check with mine, i'm in the strongest : http://pgp.raphink.net
<foampeace> :)
<LaserJock> ok, well I had a key signed by someone that is listed in the strong set on biglumber.com but now it says that I am not in the strong set
<Kyral> Yah you have to verify
<Kyral> How do you check to see if its in the Strong Set anyway?
<raphink> Kyral: by checking for a direct path to a person in the strong set
<raphink> if I'm not wrong
<Kyral> and dholbach is in the strong set right?
<raphink> hmm dunno
<raphink> ogra told me I am
<raphink> so you can check with mine ;)
<Kyral> Strong Set is for Main Uploading right?
<raphink> I don't think so Kyral
<raphink> (but i might be wrong)
<raphink> Kyral: http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/plot/
<Kyral> Hey ogra you still have my Fingerprint?
<raphink> the strong set has nothing to do with distros i think
<LaserJock> ok, but the person who signed my key is in the strong set but I'm not, how come?
* Kyral is still wondering what this whole strong set stuff is about
<raphink> how do you know you're not in the strong set LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> raphink: it says on biglumber and I can't get a path to your key
<LaserJock> raphink: but I can get a path from him to you
<raphink> did you go to my page and entered your ID LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> raphink: yep
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> what is it?
<LaserJock> 92742B33
<raphink> has your key been exported to the public servers?
<raphink> I guess not
<raphink> ;)
<Kyral> linkage
<Kyral> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=0F1A6639&TO=74BF771E&PATHS=trust+paths
<LaserJock> raphink: it should be
<Kyral> I forgot that Simon signed my key
<LaserJock> raphink: it's on biglumber and mit
<raphink> LaserJock: export it to a keyserver
<LaserJock> raphink: export what? my key
<raphink> Kyral: there's no worry about your key i think ;)
<Kyral> Yah
<raphink> yes LaserJock
<raphink> export it to pgpkeys.mit.edu for example
<LaserJock> raphink: I'm already on there but I will do it again I guess
<raphink> ok
<Kyral> whats the command to sign a key so you can attach it to an email?
<raphink> Kyral: you shouldn't sign keys without meeting the holder
<Kyral> raphink, I did
<raphink> taht's not good :p
<Kyral> I just haven't had time to sign Ogra's key
<Kyral> raphink, I know all about the trust thing
<Kyral> I'm just wondering if ogra is actually awake ;P
<raphink> lol
<raphink> well I guess you know the consequences of signing keys without being sure of the holder
<raphink> ;)
<Kyral> Deadmeat
<raphink> loool
<Kyral> I have his business card sitting right in front of me
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<Kyral> I'll hold off on sending the key out to the server until he's around
<raphink> :)
<Kyral> It was amusing at Ubuntu Love
<raphink> what is taht?
<Kyral> I had forgotten to print out my keyprints
<Kyral> the first day of Ubuntu Below Zero
<Kyral> so I had used one of my friend's laptops to SSH into a server on campus, then SSH from there into my box in my room. Then I copied the fingerprint, printed it out to a wireless LAN connected printer :P
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> barbarian ;)
<Kyral> what?
<raphink> how come you have ssh access on the comps of your campus?
<Kyral> We have webspace
<raphink> ok
<Kyral> so to get in
<raphink> good thing they give you ssh
<raphink> they could have only given ftp
<Kyral> and my firewall is configured to block SSH attempts from off-campus
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> ic
<raphink> I let ssh in on my firewall
<raphink> otherwise I couldn't get access to my comp
<Kyral> well, now its configured to block SSH from anywhere except two computer labs
<raphink> and I need ssh
<asbin> I think there's a dependepency problem in dapper with libssl0.9.7 ... is someone know about this ? I've tried to create a pbuilder chroot for dapper ... it doesn't work
<raphink> asbin: you mean you can't create a builder for dapper taht's it?
<Kyral> You can't make a Dapper Pbuilder, you have to copy your Breezy one and upgrade that
<raphink> Kyral: there's a pbuilder bug that was pointed to be yesterday (if I remember well)
<asbin> raphink: yes, because libssl0.9.7 is not available anymore
<Kyral> about /etc/shadow?
<raphink> wher eit's explained what should be chaned in order to have pbuilder work
<raphink> with dapper
<raphink> I can tell you where it is
<asbin> it has been replaced by libssl0.9.8, but some packages still needs libsll0.9.7
<Kyral> Welcome to life in a development version
<asbin> ok, is you had a link, it interests me ;)
<raphink> here : http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pbuilder-maint/2005-November/000269.html
<raphink> it tells how to fix this bug
<raphink> -    if [ -n "$SUTOUSER" ] ; then
<raphink> +    if [ ! "$SUTOUSER" = "su "  ] ; then
<raphink> that works ;)
<Kyral> I think I'm gonna throw ArchLinux on my laptop
<raphink> :(
<Kyral> raphink, I'm still gonna run Ubuntu on my main(this) box
<raphink> good :)
<raphink> I haven't tried archlinux
<Kyral> just that my friends have been bugging me to try Arch and I have that PoS laying around
<raphink> i'm not really interested in geek distros
<Kyral> Dell Inspirion 1100
<raphink> ok
<Kyral> Besides my system as it is now is too tweaked :D
<raphink> asbin: did you find where to fix the bug?
<raphink> haha
<raphink> tell me about a screwed up sys !
<raphink> haha
<Kyral> That laptop is just gonna be used for taking notes in class and so I always have a Linux system to work on w/o relying on LiveCDs
<raphink> mhm
<Kyral> Gonna put Fluxbox on it
<asbin> I will try to create a breezy pbuilder chroot, and upgrade it to dapper, as Kyral said
<raphink> asbin: I tried that and it failed for me
<raphink> whereas the fixing the bug in the script worked
<raphink> it takes 10 seconds ;)
<raphink> but it's up to you
<Kyral> Man I forgot I was gonna nuke one of my HDs today
<LaserJock> So am I supposed to sign the key of the person who signed my key?
<Kyral> I need to completely erase the partition table
<raphink> LaserJock: during a keysigning party sure
<Kyral> so now FDisk hinks its FAT32, its really an ext3
<Kyral> and somehow it still has its ReiserFS journal on it
<raphink> oh yeah tweaked indeed
<Kyral> And somehow it works just fine
<Kyral> but those journals are robbing me of like 5 GB
<\sh> moins
<Kyral> hey \sh
<crimsun> moin, \sh
<Kyral> so I have to zero out the drive
<foampeace> ok hi
<foampeace> i put /usr/bin/gpg into thunderbird
<foampeace> raphink: what happens next
<foampeace> how do i send a signed email to keyring@tiber.tauware.de with thunderbird
<foampeace> if it says message will be signed is that enough for uploading?
<crimsun> that's a signed e-mail, yes.
<\sh> brb
<raphink> foampeace: sign your email
<raphink> it will ask you for the passphrase when sending
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-25
<foampeace> yes not sure exactly how to sign it right...so many options
<foampeace> in thunderbird enigmail
<raphink> never used it
<raphink> did you look on google?
<foampeace> what about keyservers?
<foampeace> should i put anything in the email?
<foampeace> just leave the default keyservers?
<foampeace> random.sks.keyserver.penguin.de, pgp.dtype.org, keyserver.kjsl.com, ldap://certserver.pgp.com
<foampeace> those are the defaults
<raphink> keep this
<raphink> you don't have to worry about keyservers in the email client I think
<raphink> http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto.php
<raphink> don't use generate key though ;) obviously ..;
<foampeace> thanks
<foampeace> o i could have generated with this program itself
<foampeace> shoudl the messages be encrypted?
<raphink> nope
<raphink> just signed
<raphink> to encrypt the message, you need to have the key of the person you're sending it to
<raphink> so the message can only be read with this key
<foampeace> i see encryption
<foampeace> it does it whether i like it or not
<foampeace> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
<foampeace> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
<foampeace> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
<foampeace> iD8DBQFDf7ZQeS1hPlkp6OoRAtSoAKCb3K/ZJsOL5c27KK4F/CMg/NjcVQCgiv9Y
<foampeace> qwG/rZNmbd9G80IEWAewYpA=
<foampeace> =67IT
<foampeace> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
<foampeace> see?
<foampeace> thats not right?
<raphink> that's not encrypted
<raphink> that's just your signature
<foampeace> phew
<foampeace> so now i send to the guy
<raphink> BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE  <-------
<raphink> it's writing in capital letters : SIGNATURE ;)
<raphink> if it was encrypted
<raphink> you couldn't read your the message you wrote anymore
<raphink> unless you encrypted it for you too
<foampeace> register as uploader?
<raphink> foampeace: ?
<foampeace> so he can add me to the upload keyring?
<raphink> yep
<raphink> if you signed your message
<raphink> then he can be sure that you own this key
<raphink> and he can get the public key and add it to the keyring
<LaserJock> how do you sign somebody's key --sign-key?
<raphink> yes
<raphink> or rahter
<raphink> first of all
<raphink> you edit the key
<raphink> with --edit-key
<raphink> and you sign each uid you trust
<raphink> and set the trust level
<foampeace> dput.cf?
<raphink> foampeace: yes you need to have dput installed and to set it
<foampeace> sudo apt-get install dput
<LaserJock> raphink: after you do --edit-key and sign it you can then export it?
<raphink> sure
<raphink> when you quit gpg after signing the key
<raphink> you can export the newly signed key to the servers
<raphink> yes foampeace
<raphink> how well do you know debian systems foampeace ?
<foampeace> raphink: how well? thats hard to answer
<raphink> how long have you been using a debian system?
<foampeace> severa years on and off
<raphink> ok
<foampeace> dput is for uploading?
<crimsun> yes.
<Kyral> I need to finish EasyChem
<raphink> ;)
<Kyral> But first comes fixing the PBuilder
<raphink> Kyral: did you try with the link I gave ?
<Kyral> Its already made
<raphink> ok
<raphink> that should work
<Kyral> the problem is with /etc/shadow
<Kyral> I have to jump into the pbuilder and touch the file
<foampeace> ill be replied to with user and pass etc?
<raphink> well this should fix the /etc/shadow issue
<crimsun> Kyral: no.
<crimsun> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338976
<crimsun> use Markus Kolb's 2-line patch.
<raphink> taht's what I gave him crimsun
<foampeace> raphink: will i be replied to?
<raphink> Kyral: you need to patch the script as told in the bug report
<raphink> no foampeace
<raphink> you will be added to the keyring
<raphink> then you can begin to upload
<foampeace> just automatically added?
<Kyral> how do I patch again?
<raphink> not automatically foampeace
<raphink> someone will get your email and answer to it
<raphink> afer adding your key
<crimsun> patch -p# < foo.patch
<crimsun> man patch
<Kyral> wait a sec, they patched it in Debian
<raphink> Kyral: you can just do it manually it's just one line
<raphink> ;)
<crimsun> and we haven't merged it yet
<Kyral> ah
<raphink> Kyral: just edit this file and change this line
<crimsun> this you need to by-hand
<raphink> you know how to read a diff ?
<Kyral> do I have to hit every PBuilder?
<crimsun> it's only that script
<crimsun> it doesn't affect your base.tgzs
<Kyral> okay
* raphink wonders how come there are almost as many people in #ubuntu-motu as in #ubuntu-fr
<Kyral> Gah, I need to patch xterm
<Kyral> Forum user pointed out that it doesn't provide x-terminal-emulator
<foampeace> can you contribute other stuff besides packages?
<foampeace> like what
<foampeace> docs?
<foampeace> graphics?
<Kyral> but can I submit a patch to something from Main....
<foampeace> themes?
* minghua noticed that package grace hasn't changed since hoary (which was the first time it's introduced into universe)
<foampeace> i apologize im in a fog about all this until tommorrow
<raphink> sure foampeace you can make themes, graphics, docs and whatever :) these are nice ways to contribute too
<foampeace> always takes a nights rest :)
<foampeace> its real good that people get to contribute to it like this
<raphink> if you don't feel at ease technically with packaging, there are many other ways of contributing
<raphink> :)
<foampeace> its seemed to do most of the packaging on its own
<raphink> what do you mean foampeace ?
<foampeace> but maybe you laughing at me for saying that
<raphink> no, not at all
<foampeace> i mean autoapt
<raphink> o_O
<raphink> do you know about lintian foampeace ?
<foampeace> lintian?
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xterm/+bug/4614 <--If I patch this and make a debdiff can someone upload it?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4614: Doesn't provide x-terminal-emulator Fix req. for: xterm (Ubuntu), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4614
<minghua> damn, snapshot.debian.net doesn't have the version I need
<Kyral> Where the heck did the bot come from
<raphink> lol
<raphink> Ubugtu: what'd you say?
<Kyral> 4614
<raphink> stupid bot...
<Kyral> !malone 4614
<raphink> foampeace: lintian is a tool to check your packages
<Kyral> ....how do you work this thing
<raphink> install it and run it on your packages
<foampeace> lintian the deb package checker?
<raphink> yep foampeace
<raphink> one of the goals for a clean package is to have no lintian output when you run it on your package
<raphink> i doubt you get no lintian output when using autodeb
<raphink> (although i've never used it myself so I can't be sure)
<Kyral> If you are serious about packaging follow the New Maintainers Guide
<raphink> :)
<raphink> BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE
<raphink> oop
<raphink> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html
<foampeace> ok
<raphink> here
<raphink> read this
<Kyral> anyway that bug is an easy fix, but the package is in main
<raphink> that is the basis to know
<raphink> foampeace: I know there are way of doing packages easily
<raphink> but I prefer to not install these packages on my system...
<Kyral> bug 4614
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4614: Doesn't provide x-terminal-emulator Fix req. for: xterm (Ubuntu), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4614
<Kyral> good bot
<raphink> official packages must be clean in order to assure a good system to users
<raphink> hehe
* raphink gives a biscuit to Ubugtu for his good job
<Kyral> I can fix it fast, but I don't have upload rights to Main
<raphink> ;)
<Kyral> I'll fix it, attach the debdiff to the bug, mark it as Accepted, and ping whoever can upload it
<foampeace> raphink: ok mine has lots of problems..not that i would know why
<raphink> foampeace: there you see how good autodeb is ;)
<raphink> foampeace: paste the lintian output there : http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/
<raphink> so I can see ;)
<raphink> (and tell me the url of your pastebin entry...)
<Kyral> Dangit this is gonna be a NMU for sure
<raphink> foampeace: you can get more details by running `lintian -i'
<raphink> instead of just lintian
<raphink> Kyral: :(
<foampeace> k
<Kyral> I'm not the maintainer, I'm just a bugfixer :D
<raphink> hehe
<Kyral> still...what do I do
<foampeace> raphink: lintian tells you what to do mostly?
<foampeace> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4773
<raphink> foampeace: if you understand what it says, then yes mostly
<raphink> lintian doesn't tell you about _all_ pbs with your package though
<raphink> so if you ahve many output, that means you migth have even more issues
<foampeace> does mine look easy?
<raphink> foampeace: yours look like you would gain time in forgetting about autodeb
<raphink> reading the maintainer's guide
<raphink> and use dehelper scripts rather
<raphink> I think most of these errors are due to the use of autodeb
<Kyral> hey \sh
<foampeace> raphink: ok
<raphink> foampeace: really the first thing you have to do is read. Read the whole maintainer's guide and read about Debian Policy aswell
<foampeace> ok
<raphink> at least throw an eye on Debian policy when you're done with the maintainer's guide
<raphink> :)
<raphink> that's not a very nice reading but it's useful
<\sh> re
<raphink> hi \sh
<Kyral> that was fast and easy
<Kyral> anyone wanna upload this thing?
<raphink> you can't upload Kyral ?
<Kyral> nope
<raphink> why?
<Kyral> I'm a MOTU-Wannabe :D
<raphink> you don't need to be a motu in order to upload
<raphink> just have your key in the keyring
<Kyral> To main
<raphink> oooh ic ;)
<Kyral> XTerm is in main
<raphink> sorry for misunderstanding you ;)
<raphink> yep
<\sh> raphink: aehm..u need to be a motu to have upload rights to universe
<\sh> Kyral: what about xterm?
<raphink> \sh I thought uploading to revu ;)
<raphink> huhu
<Kyral> Forum user pointed out that it doesn't provide x-terminal-emulator
<\sh> raphink: no...send patches to me
<\sh> raphink: I will upload it for u then
<raphink> what exactly is required to be a MOTU \sh ?
<raphink> oh it's not for me \sh, it's for Kyral :)
<\sh> raphink: first of all u need to be an ubuntu member...means, document your work on your wiki.ubuntu.com/ page
<Kyral> !bug 4614
<Ubugtu> (bug <abbreviation> <number>) -- Look up bug <number> in the bugzilla associated with <abbreviation>.
<\sh> raphink: then apply for ubuntu membership in front of the CC
<Kyral> bug 4614
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4614: Doesn't provide x-terminal-emulator Fix req. for: xterm (Ubuntu), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4614
<foampeace> no one is working on my package
<raphink> that's possible foampeace
<\sh> raphink: while u are doing your contribution towards the universe or to other parts of ubuntu...work together with the motu team...after membership and after a couple of weeks..you apply for universe upload rights in front of the TB.
<raphink> there are many orphan packages foampeace
<raphink> \sh: TB ?
<Kyral> until then I have to ping MOTUs whenever I fix something
<\sh> raphink: technical board
<raphink> ok
<raphink> so I need to be contributing to ubuntu (for example through universe), then apply for membership to CC, then apply for universe upload
<raphink> right?
<Kyral> I love easy bugfixes
<\sh> raphink: yepp
<raphink> say
<raphink> I have already an account on launchpad
<raphink> and 4 packages waiting in REVU
<raphink> and my key is in the strong set
<raphink> what is still required?
<Kyral> Patience
<raphink> haha
<\sh> Kyral: i assgned the bug to me...i'm doing the xterm uploads normally for main :)
<Kyral> \sh I saw
<Kyral> Thanks for taking care of the upload
<\sh> raphink: well...the CC will decide if your contributions are worth for ubuntu...u need to talk to some people from the CC board eventually to sabdfl himself
<raphink> how do I know that people are members from the CC board?
<raphink> apart from Mark ...
<Kyral> Jeff Waugh...Matt Zimmerman....
<raphink> ok
<Kyral> Isn't Mako as well?
<minghua> Aha, I think I've found a bug in ubuntu's X packages
<Kyral> anyway. Bug killed. Another changelog entry. And last but not least, another decoration for my WikiPage
<\sh> mako, elmo, and kamion i think
<minghua> no, not X packages, but rather lesstif packages
<minghua> anybody know the story about package libxp-dev?
<\sh> grmpf..fixing gabber2
<\sh> what is with libxp?
<minghua> lesstif changelog has an entry about dropping libxp and libxp-dev dependency, saying they are out of ubuntu
<minghua> however lesstif2-dev headers still include libxp-dev headers
<minghua> in current dapper, libxp-dev and libxp6 seems to exist, altough labelled as obselete
<minghua> BTW this is (one of) the real reason grace and grace6 FTBFS in dapper
<\sh> minghua: Depends: lesstif2, libice-dev, libsm-dev, libx11-dev, libxext-dev, libxt-dev, libxrender-dev, libxft-dev, libfontconfig1-dev, libfreetype6-dev
<\sh> which is the install dependency of lestiff2-dev
<\sh> aeh lesstif2-dev
<crimsun> I don't think libxp-dev is going away anytime soon
<minghua> \sh: exactly.  and if you look at the debian package, libxp-dev is there
<\sh> minghua: libxp was xprint right?
<minghua> Argh, and lesstif has a SONAME bump from 0.93.94-11.4 to 0.94.4.-1?  Fun.
<minghua> \sh: yes
<minghua> It seems I'd better merge lesstif first
<\sh> and I think daniels don't want to use xprint anymore
<\sh> in his xorg stuff
<minghua> \sh, that's okay, it seems libxp is separately maintained by siretart now
<slomo> xprint is evil
<minghua> well, evil is better than FTBFS :-)
<crimsun> oh crap, ssl transition strikes.
<slomo> he said to me, that if someone wants to maintain it he is fine with it... but he thinks that it should be dropped
<siretart> hi
<crimsun> (python2.4 is uninstallable)
<minghua> hi siretart
<\sh> slomo: wasn't libxp demoted to universe?
<slomo> \sh: yes
<siretart> minghua: libxp is deprecated, it should not be used as dependency where possible
<Lathiat> unfortunately lots of 3rd party things are compiled against it, hence it needs to stick around yeh?
<crimsun> it was? Still shows in main for me.
<minghua> siretart: I am just merging packages, I don't really have enough expertise to judge that
<siretart> minghua: the thing is that the j2re1.4 packages which we have in multiverse (you know, binary only shit) are linked against libxp, as well as a few other legacy apps
<crimsun> (or perhaps just hasn't been anastacia-ised yet?)
<Lathiat> for example if you download firefox, its compailed against libxp
<siretart> minghua: so, if you can drop the dependency, do it. If not, well, we have libxp around
<Lathiat> i think acroread is too
<Lathiat> and yeh java
<minghua> someone need to get rid of the libxp dependency from lesstif then
<\sh> ChatViewManager.cc: In member function 'void Gabber::ChatViewManager::on_menu_item_activate()':
<\sh> ChatViewManager.cc:107: error: 'manage' was not declared in this scope
<minghua> I just want to merge grace :-(
<\sh> but there is no "manage" at all this line
<minghua> I don't really want to touch lesstif
<minghua> siretart: it's not even the package I'm trying to merge
<\sh> minghua: i don't see libxp even in lesstif1 or lesstif-dev
<minghua> \sh: I need lesstif2-dev
<\sh> minghua: lesstif2-dev there is no libxp
<\sh> LOL what's up with seveas?
<slomo> drunken? ;)
<\sh> heheh
<\sh> Seveas: alcohol or weed? or just the cat jumping on your keyboard? ,)
<Seveas> alcohol :)
<minghua> \sh: yes, but /usr/include/Xm/Print.h (from lesstif2-dev) #include's <X11/extensions/Print.h>, which only comes from libxp-dev as far as I can see
<Seveas> Ubuntu NL has gathered
<Seveas> and is drinking too much
<minghua> \sh: no matter what, lesstif2-dev should depend on packages it includes headers from
<wdh> join us all for this drinking bash :)
<\sh> minghua: then include the build dep and recompile :) if it's necessary and needed and can't be patched out
<minghua> \sh: I am arguing lesstif2-dev should depends on libxp-dev, and in Debian they do
<\sh> minghua: but if it's compiled like this without complaining about Print.h then leave it
<minghua> \sh: actually I'm not sure if it really uses libxp-dev or not, it just bail out at ./configure
<\sh> minghua: we're not debian and we have different X server packages and an X maintainer, and when he says: no libxp anymore we try to follow :)
<Kyral> sonuva
<Kyral> EasyChem is borked more than I thought
<minghua> \sh: no problem with that
<minghua> \sh: but still a bug in lesstif2-dev, won't you agree?
<\sh> minghua: again...where do u see libxp? it would be a bug if it pulls in libxp...but looking at the dev package and the deps of it..it doesn't
<minghua> <minghua> \sh: yes, but /usr/include/Xm/Print.h (from lesstif2-dev) #include's <X11/extensions/Print.h>, which only comes from libxp-dev as far as I can see
<\sh> oh ok...i misunderstood
<minghua> \sh: the bug is it DOES NOT pull it in
<siretart> minghua: does it ftbfs because of that?
<\sh> siretart: na...
<\sh> siretart: it installs an interface file which uses another interface file of a package which is not installed
<minghua> siretart: it causes FTFBS for other packages that build-depends on lesstif2-dev
<\sh> minghua: can't u patch out the printing stuff/
<\sh> ?
<siretart> neat :/
<\sh> or rewrite it using other printing things?
<\sh> siretart: bringing libxp in won't hurt for lesstif2
<minghua> \sh: as I've said, it's an error in ./configure
<\sh> it's universe...
<Kyral> what is the i18n devpack?
<minghua> \sh: and I am just not competent to fix this at all
<\sh> minghua: hmmm
<minghua> \sh, siretart: I'll just pull in libxp-dev myself and have it built, and note this is a workaround in changelog
<\sh> minghua: wait
<\sh> minghua: which packages are u working on?
<\sh> minghua: grace?
<minghua> \sh: grace
<\sh> bug number?
<minghua> \sh: yes, actually grace6 has the same problem, it was patched to pull in libxp-dev by previous universe merger
<minghua> \sh: bug 4403
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4403: grace: merge new debian version Fix req. for: grace (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4403
<minghua> I scratched my head for quite a while yesterday when merging grace6 and saw this libxp-dev dependency patch that I don't understand
<siretart> hm
<siretart> this motif shit is really annoying :/
<minghua> I think it doesn't really matter though, as most likely grace will have ubuntu-specific patches, due to hardcoded /usr/X11R6 silliness
<minghua> bug 2387 for example
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #2387: X11 binary file in wrong directory Fix req. for: grace (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2387
<minghua> grace6 had these patches, so even if lesstif2-dev is fixed, we can't just sync debian version anyway
<\sh> minghua: so pull in libxp-dev into grace...
<minghua> a dpkg-buildpackage testing run never hurts, which is what I'm doing :-)
<\sh> or
<\sh> no
<\sh> the correct way is to pull libxp into lesstif1/2
<minghua> \sh: yes, I agree the correct way is to pull libxp into lesstif
<minghua> it's just that I don't want to touch lesstif (yet) :-P
<\sh> i'll touch it
<siretart> err,
<siretart> \sh: what do you mean with 'pulling libxp-dev into grace'?
<\sh> siretart: forget it...I'll add libxp-dev again to lesstif2 because it's using libxp-dev
<siretart> \sh: I agree.
<\sh> siretart: but waut
<\sh> aeh wait
<minghua> that's the way I want it too :-)
<\sh> why it's including something from libxp and is not FTBFSing itself?
<\sh> which can mean, that it includes something from another package but will never use it
<minghua> \sh: It may well FTBFS as well
<siretart> \sh: motif is evil [tm] 
<\sh> minghua: it didn't FTBFS during breezy dev :)
<\sh> minghua: lesstif2
<minghua> \sh: yeah, just saw breezy has a new version, looks similar to the hoary version though
<minghua> \sh: by the way it's lesstif1-1 in breezy
<\sh> minghua: lesstif1 and lesstif2 are build out of one source package :)
<\sh> which is lesstif1-1
<minghua> \sh: yes, figured that out already
<\sh> so...something is really wrong here
<raphink> anyone to review my packages ? :)
<Kyral> The merge is the priority I believe
<minghua> \sh: the new lesstif2 in sid doesn't build lesstif1 anymore, though
<\sh> minghua: because lesstif1 is somehow very very very old :)
* minghua has no idea
<minghua> older than me, perhaps? :-)
<\sh> I think 1.2 I bought from delix in 1995/1996?
<\sh> ok..I do an experiment
<minghua> \sh: from debian changelog: * Upstream dropped support for lesstif1. Changing source package to
<minghua>  lesstif2 and continuing the lesstif1 package separately.
<\sh> *g*
<Kyral> EasyChem is ready to go
<minghua> so do we want to split lesstif1/2 as well?
<\sh> ok..I commented in the include statement of libxp include
<\sh> in Xm/Print.h of Motif2.1
<Kyral> should I add a Debian Menu entry before I upload it to REVU first...
<\sh> minghua: could u try something?
<minghua> \sh: sorry, try what?
<\sh> minghua: you are using pbuilder right
<\sh> ?
<minghua> yes
<minghua> \sh: if you want me to just remove the include of libxp header in Xm/Print.h, I can do that
<\sh> ok..pbuilder login --save-after-login ... then apt-get install lesstiff2-dev then edit this Print.h file from lesstiff2 and comment in the include statement of the libxp interface pls
<minghua> I know how to handle pbuilder stuff
<minghua> \sh: I am actually manually building in a pbuidler chroot now :-)  so making changes are easy
<\sh> minghua: that would be nice to try this
<minghua> \sh: by "comment" you mean "make the include statement a comment, and not effective anymore", right?
* minghua just want to be sure
<\sh> yes...comment in == make the include statement a comment :)
<minghua> okay, I usually say "comment out" though :-(
<minghua> I'd better look up in dict later...
<Kyral> Jeez, how do I stop these manpage errors
<Kyral> its an X11 app, it has help built in
<\sh> minghua: well...add a // in front of the #
<\sh> hehe
<Kyral> what does this mean..
<Kyral> W: easychem source: source-contains-CVS-dir po/CVS
<lfittl> siretart: Could you do a quick review of the debdiff for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=975 and advocate it again?
<Kyral> Oh well, package going up :D
<\sh> Kyral: that the source wasn't CVS clean
<\sh> or isn't actually
<Kyral> which means..?
<\sh> Kyral: if u do a cvs checkout from a cvs repos. there are CVS directories created
<\sh> Kyral: those directories shouldn
<Kyral> oh
<\sh> 't be in the source for an release
<\sh> to prevent this, there is cvs export
<Kyral> It came like that....how do I fix it...
<\sh> Kyral: new package or are you fixing something?
<Kyral> new package
<\sh> Kyral: so something for universe via revu?
<Kyral> it should hit REVU in a couple secs
<Kyral> yah
<\sh> Kyral: oh..ok...then check the source orig.tar.gy
* crimsun disappears for dinner
<\sh> z
<Kyral> I have the source on my HD :D
<minghua> \sh: no, that won't work.  now I have:
<minghua> /usr/include/Xm/Print.h:42: error: syntax error before 'XPContext'
<minghua> /usr/include/Xm/Print.h:45: error: syntax error before '}' token
<minghua> /usr/include/Xm/Print.h:63: error: syntax error before 'XPFinishProc'
<minghua> \sh: it seems Xm/Print.h indeed uses the data structure in libxp
<minghua> \sh: this is still just ./configure test though, not the real source
<Kyral> wait a sec
<minghua> \sh: but as I've said, I'm not competent to mess with ./configure script
<Kyral> what is lintian talking about, I don't see a CVS dir anywhere
<beezly> is anyone else working on packaging dogtail? I see it is in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
<minghua> Kyral: lintian told you it's po/CVS
<Kyral> and I'm telling you there isn't a CVS dir there
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> its in the orig.tar.gz
<Kyral> but not in the unpacked tree
<\sh> Kyral: i told u to check the orig.tar.gz
<Kyral> yah yah, me an idiot
<\sh> Kyral: actually those things are removed...and that's why u have a diff.gz it's the diff between the working debianized dir and the orig tar
<Kyral> then how do I knock out the warning from lintain?
<\sh> Kyral: but if it's in the orig.tar.gz leave it...don't change it...better to kick upstreams bum
<\sh> forget them
<Kyral> k
<Kyral> other than that lintian has no beef with the package
<\sh> minghua: what about grace now? is it complaining?
<\sh> oh sorry backlog
<\sh> minghua:ok then...I'll add libxp-dev back to the build deps
<minghua> \sh: pity.  it seems grace don't need any other patch though
<minghua> \sh: so if this is solved we can actually sync from debian
<minghua> but whatever
<\sh> minghua: just a minute :)
<\sh> ok..uploaded
<\sh> lesstif1-1 that is
<\sh> now u can check the buildds when the package build, wait for the archives and sync it or mark it to be synced
<Kyral> Actually I need a new package pulled in from Debian
<minghua> one more thing about grace, though:  the previous ubuntu patch has a tightened build dependency defoma (>= 0.11.8ubuntu2), I believe this can be safely dropped now, right?
<\sh> minghua: defoma has to be merged anyways
<minghua> \sh: oh really?  but previous merger of grace6 dropped them
<minghua> hoary, breezy and dapper all have 0.11.8ubuntu2 after all
<minghua> I don't mind doing a merge, of course
<minghua> I just want to reduce unnecssary ubuntu specific versions
<Kyral> who do I ask to sync a new package from Debian?
<tseng> he wont listen to you, if you arent on the motu list
<\sh> minghua: sorry I was mistaken with defoma
<tseng> youll need to convince a sponsor
* \sh should sleep a while
<Kyral> oh
<minghua> \sh: cool, then.  I'll wait for your new lesstif1-1 built, test the debian version in pbuilder, and ask for a sync
<minghua> Is asking for sync still slow these days, BTW?
<ajmitch> yes
<Kyral> yah imview-doc should be painless...
* minghua never understands why it takes more effort to sync a package than to just upload an ubuntu specific one
<minghua> this encourages spurious ubuntu changes :-(
<foampeace> exit
<\sh> minghua: because having a small delta is that what we want....so having a sync is a goal..so a sync is more worth then a normal upload
<minghua> \sh: I agree completely.  I am arguing things worth more should be easier to do ;-)
<minghua> \sh: just my personal rant though, never mind
<\sh> minghua: well..we only have one ftpmaster today...and we will have a better solution when soyuz landed in the next couple of weeks
<Kyral> what is soyuz in this context?
<\sh> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/SoyuzSpecification
<slomo> \sh: but kamion and mdz already can do some of elmo's tasks
<slomo> \sh: btw, please read the heise article about windows... somewhat funny ;)
<\sh> slomo: yes...but only in very important times..but having a list of syncs handy  and sending a mail to elmo once a week is much better then bothering every 5 mins kamion, mdz or elmo via irc
<slomo> \sh: elmo never read my mails when i sent them to him once... so i changed my strategie and told him to sync some stuff on irc at the time i found it and every day the stuff he forgot
<ajmitch> elmo has a large list of things to do
* ajmitch is just hoping that gpg keys is near the top of the lsit
<\sh> slomo: hahahahah....funny article
<slomo> yes, that's exactly the problem :/ one poor man with a todo list growing to infinity...
<slomo> \sh: i like this passage: "Um Windows ranken sich heute viele Mythen. Am bekanntesten ist der von der "intuitiven Benutzeroberflche", die die Arbeit am PC erleichtert." :)
<\sh> slomo: and i like "bis die Arbeit vereinfacht wurde und gleichzeitig die Nutzer so geschult waren, dass sie die Arbeit mit Windows als Vereinfachung begriffen."
<slomo> \sh: that's in the same passage... :P never show a somewhat non-interested windows user linux without preparing him... he will tell you that everything is not logical because he is accustomed to other things ;)
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> so now to bed...
<\sh> cu later
<slomo> gn9 :)
<slomo> gn8 ;)
<zakame> hello
<bmonty_laptop> ok, if I have a packege that builds in my pbuilder but fails on the buildd, what's the best way to go about fixing the issue?
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: first find out why it fails on buildd, perhaps? :-P
<bmonty_laptop> yeah, except where it fails on the buildd makes no sense to me...it is calling automake1.8, but the build depend is for 1.9 and it doesn't happen in my pbuilder
<bmonty_laptop> it would make sense to me if I could reproduce the error during my own build
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: a pointer to the buildd log, please?
<bmonty_laptop> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/f/fnfx/0.3-7ubuntu1/fnfx_0.3-7ubuntu1_20051118-1846-i386-failed.gz
<crimsun> actually what you need to do is build-depend on libtool as well
<minghua> bmonty_laptop: weird indeed
<crimsun> then before you actually call ./configure, make sure you autoreconf -f -i
<crimsun> what's happening is that there's a timestamp skew
<crimsun> (welcome to the glorious world of autotoolage)
<crimsun> hmm, any main uploaders still awake?
<crimsun> there are packages that need to be transitioned to libssl0.9.8
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: odd, let me see if I can get this correct, then would you mind taking a look?
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: sure
<crimsun> (though the coffee shop closes in 20 minutes)
<bmonty_laptop> its building in my pbuilder now
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: http://www.montynet.org/ubuntu/fnfx_0.3-7ubuntu2.debdiff
<bmonty_laptop> it builds OK in the pbuilder
<crimsun> that should do it.
<bmonty_laptop> ok, do you want to upload it, or should I stick it back on the merge bug?
<crimsun> uploaded.
<bmonty_laptop> thanks
<bmonty_laptop> how did you know that timestap skew was the problem?
<crimsun> that plagued half the packages I touched for Hoary.
<crimsun> anytime auto* are being called when they're not supposed to be, you can guess that a timestamp's amiss somewhere
<crimsun> some packages prevent this by touching them all before running ./configure
<bmonty_laptop> ok, is it an issue with ubuntu's buildd, or should I push that to debian?
<zakame> you could also do a full rebuild of the autotools and set AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
<crimsun> you probably want to talk with the Debian maintainer about incorporating that change (autoreconf)
<crimsun> yeah, AM_MAINTAINER_MODE is good
<bmonty_laptop> hmmm, guess I need to learn more about autotools
<zakame> also, some packages also automatically rebuild the autotools in the debian/rules
<bmonty_laptop> so basically it remakes the configure script and then runs it?
<crimsun> yep
<zakame> exactly
<crimsun> gah, time to find another wireless AP
<zakame> laterz ppl :D
<bmonty_laptop> bye zakame
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: that could be hard or easy depending on where you are
<ajmitch> hello chillywilly
<bmonty_laptop> goodnight everyone
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: thanks for your help
<Kyral> hoy LJ
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<minghu1> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> how's it going for you guys?
<minghu1> quite good.  how about you LaserJock?
<LaserJock> I'm at my grandparents for the weekend and I need to go to bed but I did get my package on REVU reviewed today so that's cool
<minghu1> that's good news :-)
<LaserJock> minghu1: well it was especially good because I got a + vote
<Kyral> Any MOTUs that have a sec could you look over my EasyChem package in REVU?
<zakame> hi robitaille
<robitaille> Hello zakame
<zakame> heya
<crimsun> hi
<zakame> hi pef
<pef> heya zakame  :)
<raphink> hi
<raphink> I'm packaging an app that runs on ruby files
<raphink> there's no installer yet, so i'm doing a .install
<raphink> where should the .rb files go?
<raphink> in /usr/share/apps/$myapp/ ?
<StrikeForce> what package has aclocal in it?
<StrikeForce> also I get this error when compiling with the standard cf flags " C compiler cannot create executables"
<StrikeForce> has anyone come across it?
<crimsun> StrikeForce: aclocal-foo is in automakefoo
<crimsun> StrikeForce: you need build-essential installed, of course, unless you're getting that message in a pbuilder
<StrikeForce> kk
<StrikeForce> thanks
<StrikeForce> yep
<StrikeForce> crimsun, have you seen the the C compiler error before?
<crimsun> not in a pbuilder, no.
<StrikeForce> crimsun: its the cflags however I'm not sure which one is getting the issue
<crimsun> what CFLAGS are you using?
<StrikeForce> the standard ones from dh_make
<StrikeForce> CFLAGS="Wall -g -O2 -Wl,-z,defs" ./configure --host=i486-linux-gnu --build=i486-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr
<StrikeForce> thats obviously with the information added
<crimsun> Wall is invalid
<StrikeForce> ?
<StrikeForce> I thought it was ok?
<crimsun> it's -Wall
<crimsun> the leading hyphen is extremely important
<StrikeForce> ahh ok
<StrikeForce> thats why let me check now
<StrikeForce> god I'm dumb
<StrikeForce> still a cflags issue though overall :(
<crimsun> why are you tacking on all that?
<StrikeForce> It compiles without it but I want to put 'as much' as I can into it
<StrikeForce> should I just leave it without the flags?
<StrikeForce> if it works?
<crimsun> "as much" being...?
<StrikeForce> trying to make it as efficient as possible
<StrikeForce> apart from that nothing
<crimsun> oh god, don't do that
<StrikeForce> no reason for doing it
<StrikeForce> just apart that its there
<crimsun> remember our common denominator is i386
<crimsun> it has to run on i386
<StrikeForce> ok well using the standard ./configure make make install works
<StrikeForce> so just leave it at that then?
<crimsun> so don't tack anything extra onto your CFLAGS
<crimsun> CFLAGS=$(CFLAGS) ./configure [...] 
<crimsun> ideally you don't even touch that
<StrikeForce> yep
<StrikeForce> well it works fine now
<slomo_> but never hardcode any i386 CFLAGS...
<crimsun> right. We also support ppc
<slomo_> and amd64 and ia64.... ;)
<crimsun> the sbuilders are intelligent enough to do their magic.
<StrikeForce> ok
<StrikeForce> well I'll remember that for the future
<StrikeForce> thanks heaps for the help :)
<StrikeForce> now on to the man pages
<StrikeForce> on a side note
<StrikeForce> I've got as build deps autoconf, automake1.7
<StrikeForce> it compiles without them but they are checked for in the config? should I leave them in there?
<crimsun> what do you mean they're "checked for in the config"?
<StrikeForce> in the configure script
<StrikeForce> it generates a message to say you /might/ need it
<StrikeForce> but it isn't essential
<crimsun> then remove them.
<StrikeForce> ok
<jpatrick> StrikeForce: I think that its better to use automake1.9
<StrikeForce> as I said though its not required build dep although I'm double checking now
<crimsun> jpatrick: only if that's the -minimum- version that works across all arches
<raphink> question : in the app I'm packing is no .desktop. I created one at the root of the source as a patch and added it to the debian/$myapp.install so it's installed by the package. Now when build the package it says it can't find the .desktop file although it has applied the patches. Any idea ?
<raphink> s/packing/packaging/
<raphink> it seems it doesn't create the .deskop in the right place... Should I put it in debian/ instead ?
<pef> Riddell: can you have a look ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=977
<Riddell> pef_aw: will do (later today, off to see Harry Potter just now)
<\sh> moins
<crimsun> moin \sh
<crimsun> \sh: would you kick vorbis-tools please? It needs a rebuild for the openssl 0.9.8 transition
<freeflying> why can't I upload to revu now
<\sh> crimsun: sure
<crimsun> \sh: thanks!
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> it's more libcurl?
<freeflying> It give me message like this :Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
<\sh> there is no build dep on libssl
<freeflying> but I use the force option
<\sh> so I'll rebuild it
<crimsun> \sh: right, it just needs to be rebuilt against the new libcurl3-dev
<crimsun> (since the older one depends on libssl0.9.7, which no longer is in pool)
<\sh> yepp
<\sh> crimsun: done
<crimsun> \sh: thanks :)
<\sh> freeflying: u increased the version number?
<freeflying> \sh: haven't
<freeflying> \sh: I rewrite rules,and the version number is the same
<\sh> freeflying: that is your problem
<\sh> u have to increase the version number, so that revu can throw away the old version
<freeflying> \sh: then , what shall i do
<\sh> freeflying: what is your version numbering scheme anyways?
<\sh> we discussed it and it should be 0ubuntu0.1 (for the very first upload to revu)
<freeflying> \sh: I'll do it
<StrikeForce> \sh, has it changed to that number sequence?
<StrikeForce> \sh, should I change all my numbers and re-upload?
<freeflying> \sh: how can i delete what I've uploaded to revu before
<\sh> StrikeForce: no...but for new packages we should use this numberscheme..because the first real upload to universe will be 0ubuntu1
<StrikeForce> \sh, thats how I've done it
<StrikeForce> 0ubuntu1
<\sh> freeflying: u can't but I can..what's the package name?
<\sh> StrikeForce: yes...but this will be for the first real universe upload...for revu we should use the 0ubuntu0.n scheme..it's easier then to update to 0ubuntu1 and upload it to universe
<StrikeForce> \sh, ok no worries
<StrikeForce> \sh, do you mind revu'ing the packages I have uploaded
<StrikeForce> \sh, theres been 3 of em so far
<StrikeForce> \sh, when you get time though
<freeflying> \sh: skim
<freeflying> \sh: plz  delete them
<\sh> freeflying: please increase the version number now to 2
<\sh> 0ubuntu2 please and reupload
<freeflying> \sh: thanx
<siretart> hi
<siretart> \sh: revu does not care about version numbers
<siretart> \sh: I think just preparing 'upload candidates' with the version number aimed to be in the archive is just fine
<siretart> \sh: Or did I misunderstand you?
<StrikeForce> hi siretart
<minghua> \sh: hi, your lesstif1-1 upload didn't fix my problem
<minghua> \sh: I need a dependency on libxp-dev for lesstif2-dev, not a build-dependency for (source package) lesstif1-1
<\sh> minghua: u'll get it
<\sh> in at least 1h :)
<minghua> \sh: thanks
<freeflying> siretart: when can access the package i upload to revu after i upload it
<siretart> freeflying: should work instantly
<freeflying> why can't i access to what I've uploaded
<freeflying> siretart: the package is skim
* siretart checks
<siretart> freeflying: you uploaded a binary package
<freeflying> I built it with source package
<siretart> freeflying: we cannot review binary packages, so revu is ignoring them. please upload SOURCE packages, as instructed on wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<siretart> freeflying: you uploaded a skim_1.4.3-0ubuntu2_i386.changes instead of a skim_1.4.3-0ubuntu2_source.changes
<jpatrick> \sh: can you check http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=968 ?
<freeflying> siretart: thanks ,got it
<siretart> freeflying: please check before you upload if the *_source.changes references the orig.tar.gz
<StrikeForce> that pbuilder bug
<StrikeForce> how do I fix it?
<herve> hello
<StrikeForce> hi
<jpatrick> herve: hi
<freeflying> siretart: may you delete them all
<StrikeForce> reading the responses confused me
<siretart> freeflying: done
<freeflying> siretart: thanks
<StrikeForce> grep: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//7902/etc/shadow: No such file or directory that bug?
<\sh> jpatrick: check the comments
<\sh> StrikeForce: pbuilder login --save-after-login
<\sh> StrikeForce: touch /etc/shadow
<\sh> StrikeForce: exit
<\sh> StrikeForce: it's a known issue and distro team will fix it
<StrikeForce> \sh, I know I read that I was trying to work around it in the mean time
<jpatrick> \sh: working on it
<jpatrick> \sh: $(MAKE) -f admin/Makefile.common ;\ <- that line?
<\sh> yepp
<jpatrick> \sh: reuploaded http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=969
<\sh> jpatrick: u have still a \ left :)
<jpatrick> ah
<ptlo> hi all. there's a package in UniverseCandidates (sysprof) that I'd like to have on my ubuntu (breezy), and I've searched the net and found someone preparing .debs for Ubuntu (Breezy&Dapper). I'm not MOTU, but can I edit the UniversePackage to provide the deb locations in the 'status' field, or should I bug someone about that?
<ptlo> (i've installed those debs on my system, no problem, but i believe that the above action would benefit more than me, so that's why i ask)
<siretart> ptlo: so you have prepared a source package for your application?
<siretart> ptlo: what software are you talking about?
<ptlo> siretart, it's not my app. i'm talking about sysprof (system profiler for gnome). there are source packages available for it, the guy that did it says he'll happily give them over to some MOTU or debian packager..
<\sh> provide us with the url on the wiki page then
<ptlo> ok
<jpatrick> \sh: done
<\sh> jpatrick: u uploaded it?
<jpatrick> \sh: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=981
<\sh> building now
<\sh> jpatrick: now ask riddell :)
<ptlo> I've updated the UniverseCandidates page. if there's anything more i could do, please let me know
<\sh> bbl
<Kyral> mornin'
<raphink> hi Kyral
<Kyral> hey
* Kyral smiles as he reads the Devel list
<Kyral> About the ability to login as root to the GUI. "Its not a bug, its a feature". Normally I don't like that response, but here I love it :D
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<Kyral> yo
<Gloubiboulga> I have a little question about merges
<Gloubiboulga> the debdiff provided will be run against the ~scott sources, am I right?
<raphink>  $ lintian /var/cache/pbuilder/result/kalcul_0.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<raphink> W: kalcul: non-dev-pkg-with-shlib-symlink usr/lib/libkdeeduwidgets.so.0.0.0 usr/lib/libkdeeduwidgets.so
<raphink> W: kalcul: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libkdeeduwidgets0
<raphink> how do I fix that,
<raphink> ?
<raphink> I guess usr/lib/libkdeeduwidgets.so.0.0.0 should be in libkdeedu-dev
<raphink> should I mail the libkdeedu-dev maintainer about this ?
<raphink> Riddell:
<bmonty_laptop> good morning everyone
<Kyral> morning
<raphink> hi bmonty_laptop
<Kyral> hows things?
<raphink> Kyral: do you know about my issue with the kdeedu library?
<raphink> :s
<Kyral> nope, nor do I know what kdeedu is
<raphink> kdeedu is the KDE Edutainment project
<poningru> !info kdeedu
<Kyral> I should really install KDE just so I can be more knowledgeable about it so I can help support it
<raphink> my problem is that I'm packaging a program that is installing a kdeedu library
<poningru> hi guys I wasn wondering I would get started with helping etc.
<raphink> so lintian tells me a binary package shouldn't install a libary
<Kyral> I kinda feel bad that I cannot help with KDE
<poningru> is it just pick a package and work on it?
<Kyral> I know only GNOME and XFCE (and my GNOME knowledge is somewhat slipping)
<raphink> so i'm wondering if I should email the kdeedu library manager about it so he can add this lib
<bmonty_laptop> poningru: have you looked at the MOTU pages in the wiki?
<poningru> hmm
<Kyral> I need a more powerful subwoofer
<bmonty_laptop> poningru: you should look through the MOTU pages (CategoryMOTU), the main effort right now is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToSync
<Kyral> or kill bugs :D
* Kyral whips out a flyswatter and nails a fly on his desk
<Kyral> gotcha
<poningru> looking
<bmonty_laptop> hey Nafallo
<Kyral> anyway breakfast
<Kyral> cya guys
<Nafallo> morning.
<Nafallo> and out again, later.
<Gloubiboulga> bmonty_laptop, maybe you can answer me about merges
<bmonty_laptop> Gloubiboulga: I'll try
<Gloubiboulga> The debdiff I have to provide shoul be applied against the ~scott sources, ri gth ?
<Gloubiboulga> should
<bmonty_laptop> I do the debdiff against the latest from unstable
<Gloubiboulga> ok, so the sources to be used are the debian ones
<bmonty_laptop> you can't debdiff against the merged package, because that already has the changes we are trying to bring into ubuntu
<Gloubiboulga> ok thanks
<bmonty_laptop> Gloubiboulga: when I start working on a package, the first thing I do is grab the source package from debian
<siretart> is there a list of package affected by openssl 0.9.8?
<bmonty_laptop> I don't think so
<bmonty_laptop> hmm...I just did an rdepends on libssl0.9.7...its a long list :(
<bmonty_laptop> 463 packages
<Kyral> Thats gonna be a NASTY transition
* Kyral wonders why Rox won't use the Neove-XT theme...
<rbelem> ls
<rbelem> ops... wrong terminal
<\sh> re
<siretart> hi \sh!
<siretart> \sh: how are you?
<\sh> well...I think I don't have any jetlag problems anymore
<\sh> but i'm missing armagetron from yesterdays upload...not the failed one, I uploaded a new one
<\sh> siretart: how is revu2 going?
<siretart> \sh: nothing visible atm. I'm still playing with madison-lite, because I need it for some stuff 'under the hood'
<siretart> \sh: I want 'fetchpackage sid libfoo' to download the latest version of libfoo from unstable, but this must not be too expensive implemented. madison-lite seems to be a promising base for that
<\sh> well..can't we fix apt-get?
<siretart> hm.
<siretart> you can try, if you want
<\sh> well..apt-get source foo=sid or something should work
<\sh> but it doesn't
<siretart> I'd be happy if 'apt-get -t <dist> source <sourcepackagename>' would download me the latest sourcepackage of that distribution
<\sh> yeah..thats what i meant
<siretart> and btw, I still need a cheep way of determining the version in a given distribution
<\sh> siretart: grep-dctrl?
<siretart> I need to determine cheap if an version number of an upload is bigger or lower than in a given distribution
<siretart> \sh: jepp. I inteded to run grep-dctrl on the partial mirror used by madison lite. or by extending madison-lite itself
<siretart> so you get my current status :)
<\sh> well..I'm working still on glpbugs...
<\sh> finding (source) packages works and now I'm doing the configuration..after that I want to implement update and close bug features...
<siretart> cool :)
<\sh> the UI looks fine...and if i'm doing it the right way...i can easily add a kde ui as well
* Kyral wonders in
<Kyral> whats up
* raphink too
<Kyral> I didn't realize the first Flight was released
<\sh> it was announced
<Kyral> I must not have paid attention to the Devel list
<Kyral> most of the time during the week I skim it fast
<\sh> subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce :)
<Kyral> or that could be why I didn't get it....lol
<Kyral> hey ogra
<\sh> moins ogra darling
* Kyral idly wonders if being on 11 Ubuntu Mailing Lists is overdoing it
<Kyral> Oh well, I guess this is what 2 GB+ GMail Accounts are for
<\sh> Kyral: idon
<\sh> grmpf
<Kyral> ?
<\sh> i don't use my gmail account :)
<\sh> only for porn ,-)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I wouldn't but when I was subscribed with my college email, the flood of emails triggered them to block @ubuntu.com :P
<Kyral> or at least the MLs
<siretart> \sh: you have some mailinglists distributing porn?! ;)
<\sh> siretart: u need some?
<\sh> hehehe
<siretart> hrhr
<\sh> well...i think working on ubuntu will give anyone a changed sexual life
<\sh> one wants to wear women clothes, the other one wants to have porn in his gmail mailbox
* \sh shakes his head
* siretart actually found some improvement in being ubuntu developer :)
<siretart> could be just by chance ;)
<\sh> siretart: better sex? the people are looking at you with fear?
<\sh> phew...food was nice
<siretart> :)
<bmonty_laptop> siretart: I have a quick off-topic python question for you...
<bmonty_laptop> mind if I /msg it?
<siretart> go on
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: over to you, if I want to do a GUI with python, what is the prefered binding, pygtk or gtk?
<siretart> I'm inclined to suggest pygtk
<slomo_> i thought there only is pygtk...
<bmonty_laptop> all the examples show an "import pygtk" and if that fails they "import gtk"
<bmonty_laptop> I want to make an app that is ubuntu specific, so I want to make sure I use the correct binding
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: pygtk to set the version u need
<slomo_>         import pygtk; pygtk.require("2.0")
<slomo_>         import gtk
<slomo_> that's what i often see
<\sh> import pygtk
<\sh> pygtk.require('2.0')
<\sh> import gtk
<\sh> import gnome
<\sh> import gnome.ui
<\sh> from gtk import glade
<bmonty_laptop> ok, thanks
<\sh> the module name of gtk is for gtk 1 and gtk2 the same...pygtk let u decide which version u need...and decides where to look
<bmonty_laptop> and using gnome would be the prefered method for the GUI?
<Gloubiboulga> bye
<sivang> rehi all
<ajmitch> morning
<bmonty_laptop> hey ajmitch
<\sh> does anybody know from where gnome-themes-extras is synced from? i don't find it on unstable
<\sh> argl forget it..
<\sh> its named gnome-themes-extras and not gnome-theme-extras
<sivang> \sh: Stephan, what mood are you in? Would you mind giving me a small walkthrough of packaging from scratch of a python software as an example? Don't hesistate to tell me to "bugger off" if you don't feel like
<\sh> sivang: depends on the piece of python code...is it using the python setup.py?
<\sh> sivang: actually did u read the debian new maintainers guide?
<sivang> \sh: if you tell me it has something about python code, I will go and re read it. yes, I have read it, either it's me who's dumb, but I didn't really get anything useful from there. At least not to a different package then the one the NM guide was demonstrating :)
<\sh> sivang: well it gives u most of the stuff u need
<\sh> sivang: u need debhelper and dh_make
<sivang> \sh: ok, noted. I already know dh_make creates the Makefile skeleton, how to I work with the stuff it spitts into my rule file?
<\sh> sivang: remove everything from the debian/ dir, which dh_make creates, what u don't need...and then we can start to talk about python specials
<sivang> \sh: ok, cool. I have a small python script which I like to get packaged cleanly, I'll go make some preperations and come back
<\sh> sivang: pay attention to configure target and build target..this u have to change to fulfill the needs of your package
<\sh> sivang: upload it to revu so i can check :)
<sivang> \sh: well, first I'd have to get the package ready :)
<herve> hello
<sivang> hey herve , 'sup?
<herve> had a nice week-end!
<Kyral> This should be an interesting experiment
<Kyral> ubuntu-desktop, xubuntu-desktop, and kubuntu-desktop, all on the same thing
<\sh> it works it has to...i'm running ubuntu/kubuntu-desktop
<Kyral> well, xubuntu-desktop is broken
<Kyral> because of hplip
<Kyral> I just want to learn more about KDE so I can help more people
<Kyral> and its also broken
<Kyral> due to the openoffice.org2 package
<Kyral> well, xubuntu-desktop is fixed
* Kyral wonders.....hmm
<Kyral> hehe *fires up The GIMP*
<azeem> anybody know how/whether Ubuntu handles the g++ allocator change library renames?
<herve> yes we do
<sivang> azeem: IIRC, dholbach is assigned to do that or so I've seen in discussions from the previous week
* Kyral closes GIMP
<siretart> azeem: doko said he will send a follow up when we are ready
<azeem> ok, so you're doing it right now, same way as Debian does?
<Kyral> I stink at GFX
<siretart> azeem: he has uploaded updated gcc-3.4 and gcc-4.0 packages today
<siretart> azeem: I think he waits for the buildd masters to update the chroots, same as in debian, I think
<siretart> azeem: why do you ask?
<azeem> I was going to transition some packages in Debian now, and wondered what Ubuntu does
<siretart> azeem: we have been instructed to do the same as in debian, but to wait for the 'go' signal (i.e. post on ubuntu-devel)
<azeem> packages only get synced on request right now anyway, right?
<siretart> packages get synced automatically
<siretart> iff there are no ubuntu specific changes on it (i.e. 'ubuntu' in version string)
<slomo_> siretart: i think doko waits only for lsb_release to be installable again... gcc FTBFS because of that
<azeem> I see
<\sh> azeem: are u coming to the "Linuxtage Essen" on the 3./4. december?
<slomo_> \sh: do you know this already? you're famous now =) http://foodfight.org/movies/Ubuntu%20Fanpeople/
<\sh> slomo_: yeah
<Treenaks> \sh: World-famous :)
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> it is so lame :)
<Treenaks> some german was wgetting my whole site though.. out-of-control wget
<azeem> \sh: didn't know about that event until now :)
<Treenaks> azeem: UBZ?
<\sh> azeem: http://essen.linux-tage.linec.de/
<azeem> \sh: incidently, I might be in Cologne that weekend, so Essen wouldn't be so far away
<azeem> but I haven't decided yet
<sivang> Treenaks: where is mine? :)
<\sh> azeem: no...I'm from cologne :)
<azeem> well, I am from Munich, so it'd be a longer way otherwise :)
<\sh> azeem: actually kerpen which is 20 mins from cologne with the train
<Treenaks> sivang: I don't know, I'll search around a bit more.. I might have accidentally deleted you :(
<Riddell> \sh: did you upload moodin?
<slomo_> \sh: funny... i'm in essen on the 5.12.... one day too late :(
* ajmitch wonders if it's time to dist-upgrade his main box to dapper yet
<slomo_> ajmitch: works fine here on both machines ;)
<sivang> Treenaks: /me cries..
<sivang> slomo_: I wonder how it would go for a machine that still has a couple of breezy bugs that went unfixed :) (gdm permisson problem on login, etc)
<slomo_> sivang: test it... maybe they're fixed... dapper has a new gdm ;)
<sivang> slomo_: well, and how is X working? >:-}
<slomo_> sivang: well... it works ;)
<sivang> slomo_: ok, let's do it :)
* sivang is changing sources.list
<ajmitch> maybe if I actualy update to dapper I can start doing some work on it ;)
* sivang is updating...
<sivang> 483 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 2 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
<sivang> Need to get 205MB of archives.
<sivang> ok, here goes nothing
<Kyral> hehe
<Kyral> Its stable
<Kyral> OO.org2 doesn't work though
<crimsun> on what arch?
<crimsun> it works fine on i386
<Kyral> x86
<Kyral> Tell that to my machine
<Kyral> it isn't installable
<crimsun> err, !installable is different from doesn't work
<Kyral> I had to remove it because it would segfault
<Kyral> oh well, I prefer Abiword anyway
<herve> bye
<siretart> gn8 folks!
<slomo_> gn8 siretart
<Kyral> cya
<\sh> Riddell: no...did u advocate the latest package?
<\sh> slomo: well..so come on the 3rd :)
<Riddell> \sh: nope, just checking, I'll take a look at it now
<slomo> \sh: but i have to be the driver for to other people from detmold... would be a waste to drive the same route 2 times in 3 days :/
<\sh> slomo: bad timing
<\sh> Riddell: take your time...it will fail
<slomo> \sh: yes... definitly :( especially after reading your latest blog entry...
<\sh> slomo: yeah..that was quite a good idea..good that i'm member of the friends of gentoo :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-26
<StrikeForce> gbgh
<raphink> I'll be happy to work on my packages tomorrow if anyone is willing to review them :D Good night !
<Toots> hi all!
<Toots> I have made several packages that are now in official debian
<Toots> among them are some that would benefit from being in ubuntu too
<Kyral> Ask them to be sync'd :P
<Toots> I am thinking of peercast the P2P broadcast servent
<Toots> Kyral: who shall I ask for?
<Kyral> dunno
<Kyral> I'm just an Trainee
<crimsun> they need to be NEWed just as they once were in Debian
<Toots> crimsun: ok
<Toots> is there an ML to ask for that or else?
<crimsun> not really.
<crimsun> We just need to ask dholbach or sh to have them NEWed, which kamion/mdz/elmo can handle
<Toots> did not understan sorry..
<Toots> are they people from ubuntu?
<crimsun> dholbach and sh are, yes. kamion, mdz, and elmo should be familiar from Debian.
<Toots> well looks like it allready synced...
<Toots> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/sound/peercast
<Toots> did not knew that :)
<crimsun> then the point is moot, move along. :)
<Toots> all my packages are allready in debian... :)
<Toots> in ubuntu i meant sorry..
<Toots> cool :)
<crimsun> yes, if they are in Sid at the beginning of the cycle, then they will be synced in automagically
<Toots> great thing!
<Toots> well thx for that!
<Toots> see ya!
<Toots> ++
<crimsun> thank you :)
<zakame> hi
<Burgundavia> Unfrgiven, do you have that beginners packaging guide for the doc team?
<Kyral> weren't LaserJock and I supposed to work ont hat?
<ajmitch> Kyral: this is one that Unfrgiven has worked on & started after UDU in sydney
<Kyral> ah
<zakame> hmmm, gnubiff fails to build, according to lamont's logs,  waah!
<zakame> hmmm, just to make sure, but do I still have to make a debdiff for packages that can be synced?
<ajmitch> what would there be to debdiff?
<ajmitch> since a debdiff is just to show changes you made
<zakame> ah, ok, like I said, just to make sure ;)
<zakame> someone asked me the other day about it :)
<zakame> bbl
* magnon waves
<ajmitch> hi magnon
<magnon> hey :)
<magnon> how's the laptop deal?
<jsgotangco> hey ajmitch long time no see
<ajmitch> I don't have one at the moment
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<magnon> mine broke down
<magnon> I opened it one morning and the keyboard didn
<magnon> 't work
<magnon> fun fun
<ajmitch> ouch
<magnon> and since all the non-mac external keyboards I can find are ps/2 (the mac ones wont work), and apple almost guarantees that they WILL remove anything on my disk
<magnon> I can't hand it in yet
<magnon> a bunch of merges on it :(
<magnon> woudln't be a problem if it had an sshd :P
<ajmitch> no usb keyboards lying around?
<magnon> just mac ones
<magnon> I've been to 4-5 offices of people I know nearby, nothing :P
<magnon> the mac ones weirdly enough send a control character before... anything
<magnon> oh what the heck
<magnon> snow"
<magnon> :D
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> how are you this morning, \sh
<\sh> fine..thx :)
<\sh> I'm trying to get up now...but right now, I'm reading something about dbus and python :)
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch just finished work for the day
<\sh> and how are u feeling being back at work after a long trip far away from your home? :)
<ajmitch> I'd rather still be on that trip away from home ;)
<ajmitch> spent today configuring a server
<ajmitch> running sarge, but I put a dapper chroot on, for test purposes ;)
<\sh> hehe...btw did u hear anything about the stolen laptop? will there be a replacement or something?
<ajmitch> I'll be replacing it
<ajmitch> the server for work seems to be a bit faster for compiling than my home box
<ajmitch> fairly basic, just a 3GHz P4, 2GB RAM, 2x80GB SATA in RAID-1
<ajmitch> looking at a laptop that has 1GB RAM, 100GB disk
<\sh> ajmitch: I thought it was the canonical laptop which was stolen...and there would be something like an insurance just for the case the laptop breaks or is stolen?
<ajmitch> it was a canonical laptop, and their insurance didn't cover that, afaik
<ajmitch> so my travel insurance (mostly) covers it
<\sh> oh ok :)
<ajmitch> so I have the fun of trying to pay for a nice replacement ;)
<ajmitch> which isn't so bad - I didn't pay for the canonical laptop in the first place
<jsgotangco> wow so you lost your laptop
<ajmitch> stolen, along with a few other things
<jsgotangco> argghh what a cruel fate ubz has given
<highvoltage> ajmitch: when i watch movies like star wars and movies where all the bad things happen to the good guys, it helps me realise who i am.
<highvoltage> ajmitch: don't let the dark side get you down ;)
<jsgotangco> you're a tatoinne native?
<jsgotangco> heh
* ajmitch isn't down, I got over the stuff getting stolen after a day or two
<ajmitch> had too much stuff to do at UBZ to worry about little things like that ;)
<Lathiat> eek
<Lathiat> what did you get stolen?
<Lathiat> was jeffs stuff nicked at ubz too?
<Mithrandir> yeah
<jsgotangco> along with his treo
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: you could say so :)
* highvoltage always thought that Canada was such an innocent, peaceful place
<jsgotangco> that's actually somewhere in the south pacific...
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> can someone install eric and tell me if it's crashing?
<\sh> aehm it's kde stuff but i need to be sure
<\sh> rushing for office now....bbl
<bigcx2> hey all
<bigcx2> is it ok to file bugs for kubuntu in malone
<bigcx2> universe bugs
<ajmitch> sure
<bigcx2> alright cool
<bigcx2> ajmitch: have you built any packages under kubuntu
<bigcx2> it seems that seahorse just wants to poop out under kde and not start
<ajmitch> no, but kubuntu is just ubuntu with a different set of packages
<bigcx2> yea i realize
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, seahorse dies under ubuntu as well
<ajmitch> ok, why tell me? :)
<Burgundavia> just mentioning it
<ajmitch> make sure it gets mentioned in malone
<Burgundavia> I will figure out what causes it and file the bug
<siretart> morning folks
<ajmitch> hey siretart, dholbach
<ajmitch> how are you?
<dholbach> i'm fine, thanks how are you?
<dholbach> hi everybody
<siretart> huhu dholbach
<dholbach> hi siretart
<ajmitch> alive :)
<siretart> I'm still a bit tired, its still 8am over here ;)
<ajmitch> bah
<lifeless> have you slept yet ?
* ajmitch was up just after 7am ;)
<lifeless> bah
<ajmitch> afternoon lifeless
<lifeless> hola
<siretart> hi freeflying!
<siretart> freeflying: did you notice: you uploaded a binary package again, which got again ignored
<freeflying> siretart: hi
<freeflying> siretart: yeah
<freeflying> but I build it with -sa
<siretart> freeflying: '-S -sa' is the key
<ajmitch> you need to use -S for source-only magic
<freeflying> sure I've done this
<siretart> and look for *_source.changes, the *_i386.changes is useless for us
<ajmitch> & make sure you upload the source_changes ;)
* ajmitch will stop now
<ajmitch> seems that I'm always a few seconds slower than siretart
<siretart> ajmitch: but you are completly right ;)
<freeflying> I upload them all
<siretart> ajmitch: naah, thats the lag from nz to europe. You are still closer to freeflying ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<freeflying> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=887 how to get ride of the warning messages
<zakame> hi all
<dholbach> hi zakame
<jsgotangco> hey you two
<zakame> hmmm, wouldn't it be a good idea to generalize what we have in motu-tools now so as to enable some like Debian's reportbug, for malone?
<siretart> zakame: \sh is working on a gtk reportbug frontend, but If you want to spend some time on reportbug, go ahead! :)
<zakame> siretart: that's great to hear! :) well, I'm just a Perl novice looking for a project, and motu-tools just seemed to be a nice opportunity to flex those llama muscles ;)
<siretart> w00ho, first successfull build of aspectc++ :)
<siretart> zakame: IIRC reportbug was written in perl
<zakame> siretart: yes it is, but that doesn't work for malone though :(
<siretart> zakame: that depends how do you want to interact with malone
<siretart> zakame: Currently, there seems just to be an Emailinterface for that, the xmlrpc interface is AFAIK not public  yet
<zakame> siretart: yes, that's what I've read so far :(
<Gloubiboulga> hi all
<zakame> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hello zakame, how are you?
<zakame> Gloubiboulga: just got a ping from a DD about my debian package, am now just rebuilding my chroot from scratch ;) how about you?
<pef> hello
<zakame> hi pef
<Gloubiboulga> zakame, my chroot is ok, and so am I :)
<Gloubiboulga> hello pef
<pef> :)
<pef> why some motus uploads under their name (sponsored upload) and another upload under the packager name ?
<zakame> hmm good question
<dholbach> when sponsoring, people should just sign the upload, but not change the changelog
<dholbach> but an explanation might be that they wanted to get a notification mail, when the guy they sponsored was not whitelisted yet
<zakame> oh
<dholbach> and hello pef :)
<Gloubiboulga> could any MOTU have a look at malone #4644 & #4639 ?
<pef> dholbach: hello Daniel :) for me as example, I'm a motu but I don't have upload rights now because of my unsigned gpg key (will make sign it during december), why some motu upload my changes as sponsored and another under my name ?
<dholbach> pef: if you made a changelog entry, you should get it uploaded just like that
<zakame> what's up with libglade2-dev and libgnome2-dev? gnubiff doesn't build at all :(
<dholbach> zakame: buildlog?
<zakame> that's according to lamont's buildlog, but I can build gnubiff here in my dapper chroot with no prob.
<dholbach> then ask lamont/infinity to give it back, seems the buildd had a hiccup
<dholbach> morning \sh
<zakame> hi \sh
<zakame> ok, will do
<\sh> moins
<\sh> dholbach: could it be that there is something wrong with dh_fixperms or cdbs? because every gnome-games binary has this problem..and normally dh_fixperms should change the permissions...
<dholbach> i don't think it's cdbs/debhelper
<dholbach> but i didn't get this fixed yet :(
<zakame> sri
<freeflying> siretart: how can download the package from revu  ftp
<dholbach> freeflying: it's http, you can just download it, no?
<freeflying> dholbach: I need the one in ftp
<dholbach> i don't quite follow
<freeflying> dholbach: it seems have no permission from ftp
<\sh> freeflying: no way to do it...ftp is only for upload
<asbin> hi everybody
<freeflying> \sh: I need what in ftp's binaries
<asbin> I have a little question about REVU ...
<dholbach> and as keybuk said: revu is a motu matter, no need to ask on both channels
<dholbach> asbin: fire away
<asbin> :)
<\sh> freeflying: ftps binaries?
<freeflying> \sh: ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming/binaries/
<asbin> I maintain the ushare package, last week I've sent the 0.9.2 version on REVU. Now I have the 0.9.3 version ... should I upload this new version ? What to do with the old ?
<\sh> freeflying: ftp is the only method to upload...if it's uploaded you can see it on the revu webpage...login into revu with your account and click on the package..there are the orig.tar.gz, diff.gz and .dsc files for your package
<dholbach> asbin: just upload it
<asbin> ok
<dholbach> asbin: it will appear in the "asbin history"
<dholbach> asbin: you will be able to see the diffs between them
<asbin> great
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> brb
<freeflying> \sh: I uploaded them yestoday ,but they are not found from webpage
<siretart> freeflying: again: revu ignores binaries, please upload a source package
<freeflying> siretart: actually, I uploaded them with source files
<siretart> freeflying: you still did not upload a *_source.changes file, but a *_i386.changes file
<asbin> done ;)
<siretart> freeflying: this used to work a few weeks ago, but I disabled it, because it confused users
<freeflying> siretart: I can foind them in ftp now
<siretart> sorry?
<freeflying> siretart: I can find them in ftp now
<siretart> freeflying: oh, you are using a real ftp client to upload? ;)
<freeflying> siretart: no ,upload with dput
<asbin> btw, my diff file is empty, as the debian directory is included in the tar ... is this a problem ?
<siretart> freeflying: this is a temporary directory for internal use
<\sh> freeflying: did u upload a binary file?
<siretart> freeflying: may I delete your binaries or do you need them?
<freeflying> siretart: for my mis-opertion ,I del all my work dir
<freeflying> so I need download them
<siretart> I see. just a sek
<siretart> freeflying: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/skim/
<siretart> I moved them ouy
<siretart> out
<freeflying> siretart: thanks
<lucas> siretart: did you work on motu-tools during the week-end ?
<siretart> lucas: uff, not much, no
<lucas> ok
<BockBilbo> hello
<BockBilbo> can someone tell me if https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates is the best place to suggest future packages?
<raphink> I think so, from what is written there
<freeflying> how to get ride of this warning : executable-not-elf-or-script
<Gloubiboulga> freeflying, if the file is a script, use the #! sequence at the top of it
<freeflying> Gloubiboulga: it's just some .desktop files
<Gloubiboulga> the .desktop file are not executable
<Gloubiboulga> I think you have to change the file rights
<freeflying> Gloubiboulga:how to disable it in rules
<Gloubiboulga> What do you want to disable ?
<freeflying> Gloubiboulga: plz have a look on this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=887
<dholbach> BockBilbo: you don't need a .deb package there. you can simply suggest it, but if you want to package it on your own, you could read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU, that's where we upload (source) package for review
<BockBilbo> i see
<BockBilbo> thank dholbach
<dholbach> de rien
<dholbach> hey dredg
<dredg> morning dholbach
<siretart> freeflying: may I delete http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/skim/ now?
<freeflying> siretart: ok
<freeflying> thanks
<siretart> freeflying: do you need your eva biniaries as well or may I delete them, too?
<freeflying> siretart: plz del them all
<siretart> done
<freeflying> siretart: may you have a look of the lintian warning of skim
<siretart> not now, I'm currently in class
<siretart> lecture, whatever
<freeflying> whenerer you have time
<dholbach> what is universe-bugs@tiber.tauware.de?
<crimsun> MOTUMerge
<crimsun> we're assigning all merge bugs to it
<dholbach> i see, why not use universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com?
<crimsun> that's only MOTU last I checked
<dholbach> ah right, some people might only want to get the mergers bugs
<crimsun> morning, btw :)
<dholbach> morning daniel :)
<Madpilot> hi all
<Madpilot> do bugs in Universe apps get reported to buzilla.u.c or launchpad/malone?
<dholbach> malone
<Madpilot> thanks - gLabels in 5.10 is still buggy - at least it's less buggy than in Hoary...
<\sh> Madpilot: we're working on dapper now :) did you check if glabels was merged or synced for dapper?
<dholbach> hm, i thought glabels made it into hoary-backports
<Madpilot> I haven't checked packages.u.c yet - doing so now
<Madpilot> OK - Dapper has 2.1.1 - latest release, according to the glabels homepage
<Madpilot> someone running dapper could have a look at this: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/glabels/+bug/1929/
<crimsun> hmm, I take it that we should probably kill off the b-ds on libreadline4-dev, then, too
<siretart> dholbach: because launchpad didn't allow that
<dholbach> i see
<siretart> dholbach: universe-bugs@tiber.tauware.de just forwards to universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com
<siretart> dholbach: and I'd rather not use that ugly hack, but I didn't see any other option that time
<dholbach> it's ok
<dholbach> and it adds the benefit i mentioned
<siretart> dholbach: any news about the malone transistion? I heard that the staging is going to go live today
<dholbach> no, sorry
<dholbach> and if we switch, it will be BIG news :)
<dholbach> i mean   B I G   :)
<siretart> :)
<siretart> I can imagine
<\sh> a bigger new it would be, if someone tells us "You can use soyuz now!"
<\sh> news even
<Gloubiboulga> could any MOTU have a look at a merge I've made whan he got time ?
<Gloubiboulga> malone #4639
<freeflying> Uploading via ftp skim_1.4.3-0ubuntu2.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of skim_1.4.3-0ubuntu2.dsc
<siretart> can somebody give me packaging advice: upstream release a 1.0pre1 version, which leads towards version 1.0. How can I handle that version 1.0pre gets lower than 1.0?
<siretart> and I'd like to avoid epoch if possible
<Amaranth> call it 0.99.x?
<jamessan|work> siretart: what was the previous version?
<freeflying> siretart: I can not upload the source now
<siretart> jamessan|work: 0.9.2
<siretart> freeflying: why?
<siretart> Amaranth: hmm. then it would become quite unobvious which version I'm actually packaging
<jamessan|work> siretart: I'd package it as 0.9.2+1.0pre1 but you could also take Amaranth's approach
<freeflying> I don't know . it give that there are already source here
<siretart> freeflying: I delete the .dsc
<siretart> freeflying: try again
<freeflying> siretart: thanks
<jamessan|work> iirc, the xorg stuff has done that (the .99) when packaging pre-releases
<siretart> jamessan|work: but there are upstream as well
<siretart> I'm not upstream
<jamessan|work> ah, well then I'd take the +1.0pre1 approach
<jamessan|work> it's ugly, but it works
<siretart> yeah
<Yagisan> I use the +1.0pre1 approach, it works rather well
<siretart> well, this way, I would need to rename the orig.tar.gz.
<siretart> not that bad, but not nice either
<jamessan|work> well, you always have to rename it unless the upstream is nice and already names it package_version.orig.tar.gz
<jamessan|work> the version is just slightly different now
<siretart> jepp. This I find quite ugly. but considering the other options, this seems to be best
<magnon> hey reinhardt
<siretart> huhu magnon!
<magnon> did you get my message the other day?
<siretart> oh, I fear not, what was it?
<magnon> I did a bunch of merging stuff
<magnon> and then my laptop broke down. :(
<siretart> fuck :(
<siretart> magnon: if you have a merge done, dont forget to attach the debdiff to the malone bug
<magnon> and since apple guarantees that I won't have the same data on the disk when I get it back, or something like that, I have to find a clever way to back it up
<Nafallo> wow, that's a kind of loosy guarantee :-P
<magnon> they're not saying those words exactly, but that's what they mean :P
* Nafallo is phrozen.
<siretart> well, they will reimage it with a diagnosis system for testing
<Lathiat> !tv sg1
<Lathiat> err
<magnon> siretart: you think that, yeah? I doubt it :)
<Lathiat> -EWIN
<siretart> and then do a clean install of macos back, sure thing
<magnon> oh
<magnon> as in reimage. yes
<Yagisan> magnon - you need a Philips head screwdriver, a 2.5" to 3.5" ide adapter, and a desktop pc to backup
<magnon> Yagisan: warranty breaks if I open it that way, I believe
* Nafallo hits the shower
<siretart> so you cannot replace your harddrive without loosing warranty?
<siretart> weird
<magnon> I'm not sure. I will check
<Yagisan> magnon: Do you have a pc repair cert ? under my local law, I don't lose warranty if a qualified person opens the pc
<siretart> at ibm, they told me to remove the hdd before sending it it, because they do respect my privacy :)
<magnon> Yagisan: I'm pretty certain it says "Certified Apple Professional" ;)
<Yagisan> magnon: "Certified Apple Professional" only is a breach of consumer law in Aus
<Yagisan> it's like saying you lose your new car warranty if it isn't serviced by the dealer
<Treenaks> Yagisan: you could probably say that you'd prefer it to be serviced by an authorised service-person
<jamessan|work> siretart: once dak supports it, you could use 1.0~pre1
<siretart> jamessan|work: ubuntu dak does support it, but not debian dak
<siretart> jamessan|work: anyway, we will move to soyuz soon
<Yagisan> Treenaks: I could, but I just like to point out it's a breach of the trade practices act, and if they want to be stubborn, I'll take my refund then
<siretart> slomo_: around?
<Fut21> does ubuntu-plf have a irc-channel
<Seveas> not that I know of
<Fut21> How can i get in contact with these folks
<sivang> what is ubuntu-plf ?
<Fut21> http://wiki.ubuntu-fr.org/doc/plf#useful_links
<Fut21> sorry http://wiki.ubuntu-fr.org/doc/plf
<Fut21> I can not find the e-mail add to "MirSPCM"
<bipolar> does anyone have up to date mysql packages? I need to use v5 for my new project.
<Kyral> ow
<Kyral> anyone else get X taken down by the latest updates to Dapper?
* Kyral sighs
<Kyral> On the upshot, I'm getting a crash course in Irssi
<jamessan|work> that's a pretty good upshot  ;)
<Kyral> yah, but X is dead in the water
<Kyral> as is atd
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> At least I get to learn how to do things without X
<Kyral> how do I get it (irssi) to show a channel bar thing
<Kyral> nm
<siretart> Fut21: yes, they have an irc channel
<siretart> Fut21: ask Mirno or Keyes, both are online from time to time
<\sh> hey siretart
<siretart> huhu \sh!
<\sh> moins ogra :) hab ihr schon schnee?
<Kyral> hey ogra, everyone
<siretart> \sh: gestern hats bei uns geschneit ;)
<siretart> [transl. we had snow yesterday] 
<ajmitch> hi
<Kyral> hey
<\sh> siretart: lucky you are :) here it's raining and windy and cold
<\sh> ogra: do you want to take part for the keysigning event on the 3rd, in Essen?
<ogra> \sh, yup
* siretart wants, too! :)
<siretart> but no time for a trip to essen :(
<\sh> ogra: send me your details to sh@linux-server.org (long keyid, realname and fingerprint and list of UIDs :))
<siretart> dholbach: around? any progress on ubuntu-motu@lists.u.c?
<dholbach> siretart: i saw jdub for like 5 minutes today
<dholbach> where he didnt respond
<ogra> \sh, will do
<\sh> ogra: nice :)
<lucas> the easiest would be to get mailing lists for each launchpad team
<lucas> (ie integrate this with launchpad)
<Kyral> ogra, mind if I upload your signed key to the Servers (Remember we exchanged keys at Ubuntu Love)
<siretart> dholbach: okay. Just wanted to note that my mailman setup on tauware.de is operational (I created 2 lists only today) ;)
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> i'll mail jeff
<ajmitch> oh I love packages that are uploaded with..
<ajmitch>  * This package is probably broken (it will for example probably not
<ajmitch>      build on dapper and it doesn't install cleanly on breezy).
<siretart> ajmitch: and it FTBFS of course on dapper :)
<siretart> ajmitch: seems to be a new trend: same for xserver-xorg :/
<LaserJock> a package that I have on review has just had a new upstream release. I only need 1 more vote to get the old one in. Should I add the new version now or wait until I get the other vote?
<ajmitch> either way you'll need 2 more votes
<LaserJock> ajmitch: good point
<LaserJock> ajmitch: wait, if I upload a new version to REVU does that reset the vote count?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> so you upload the new upstream, get 2 votes on that
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, got it
<thierry> does anyone knows if we should send a patch to malone (and open a bug) when we want to fix a issue there https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile
<ajmitch> thierry: it would be good
<thierry> k
<thierry> at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile , could someone tell me how to make sure the binary* target installs the .desktop file into /usr/share/applications/ and its corresponding icon file (xpm/png/etc.) into /usr/share/pixmaps/ . Additionally if cdbs's gnome.mk is not used, you need to call dh_desktop.
<thierry> where do I call dh_desktop first of all
<thierry> and how do I make sure bla bla bla
* ajmitch waits very patiently for the upload..
<ajmitch> 128Kbps up is painful
<lucas> ajmitch: have you had time to make your motu scripts publicly available ?
<lucas> have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTools ?
<ajmitch> yes, I have read that page
<ajmitch> not much point having my scripts :)
<thierry> could someone also tell me why some package have only a *.desktop.in instead of a .desktop
* Nafallo has 1Mbit now :-P
<lucas> can you rephrase "not much point having my scripts :)" ? I'm not sure I understand what you mean
<ajmitch> most of what my scripts do is in the existing bzr repository that others have done
<ogra> lucas, ajmitch's scripts are available since breezy afaik ... but nobody looked at them, instead there were new tools developed ...
<\sh> thierry: because they're changed via autotools...
<ajmitch> ogra: no, siretart & \sh looked at them & wrote their own
<ogra> ok
<\sh> ajmitch: aehm
<\sh> ajmitch: i never wrote those scripts as u did :)
<\sh> ajmitch: we
<thierry> \sh : ok, could you simply point me where to find how .desktop files are working in debian packages?
<lucas> maybe we should think of a way to stop reinventing the wheel then ...
<ajmitch> \sh: hm?
<\sh> 're waiting that u r releasing them :)
<ajmitch> \sh: and I was offline for awhile, so I couldn't do much in releasing them
<\sh> thierry: depends on how they are installed...if you have a package with .desktop.in then it's normal, that upstream is doing some autotools magic with them
* ajmitch sees if his uploads are accepted...
<\sh> ajmitch: and now we are waiting for them :) there are no comparison scripts available right now in motu-tools afaik
<\sh> thierry: and installing them via make install
<ajmitch> \sh: I thought there were
<ajmitch> \sh: and you have scripts to do rebuilds of a list of packages
<lucas> \sh: there is mine
<\sh> thierry: if there is no .desktop file at all, put it in the debian/ dir and install them in the install target of the debian/rules file
<ajmitch> so there's no point behind my stuff, so they can die a quiet death as they deserve
<thierry> \sh : well I want to work on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile
<\sh> siretart: hmmm...did I miss one merge?
<\sh> siretart: of motu-tools?
<slomo_> siretart: pong
<lucas> dunno if my scripts were merged in sirestart's repos
<lucas> \sh: see http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/motu-tools/duv-ruby.html
<\sh> lucas: ah this ....
<lucas> and http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/motu-tools/ is my bzr repos
<thierry> \sh : and what do I do if can't even find the command used to launch the program? like 3dchess package...
<ajmitch> sigh, I just got maintenance of another package in debian
<ajmitch> yay for me :P
<\sh> thierry: hmmm...it must be written in the manpage or in the documenation how to start 3dchess
<thierry> k...
<\sh> thierry: normally all games are starting from /usr/games/
<LaserJock> arrghh, I hate pbuilder >:(
<ajmitch> pbuilder is wonderful ;)
<ajmitch> it lets me build dapper packages on a sarge box ;)
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<raphink> :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: Well, it's a love-hate relationship right now
<ajmitch> you love to hate it?
<LaserJock> I can't get it to use more than one pbuilder set up
<siretart> slomo_: I guess you read the mail, motumedia mailinglist is now running on mailman
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I love what it can do. I hate that it doesn't seem to like me
<slomo_> siretart: yes... perfect :)
<siretart> slomo_: it is surpisingly easy to setup new maillinglists..
<LaserJock> is there a general policy for mailing lists. I was thinking about getting one for MOTUScience but I'm not sure how to go about it
<thierry> \sh : and what do I do to make sure the binary* target installs the .desktop file into /usr/share/applications/ and its corresponding icon file (xpm/png/etc.) into /usr/share/pixmaps/
<siretart> LaserJock: I didn't get the policy for official mainlinglists easy
<siretart> LaserJock: I think there needs to be sufficient traffic for getting an official mailling list
<siretart> LaserJock: if you want one on tauware, I can arrange something
<\sh> thierry: u install them in the correct location manually (if upstream doesn't have one via autotools magic)...and make sure the .install or .files files are correct and install it as well
<thierry> \sh : and what is autotools magic?
<LaserJock> siretart: that would be great, I'm not sure yet how much traffic we would have.
<\sh> thierry: if upstream has some .desktop.in stuff
<siretart> LaserJock: what is your email adress and how do you want it to be called?
<thierry> \sh : like I told you I'm working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile so there's no .desktop file
<\sh> thierry: if they only have a .desktop in their upstream, u have to check where it's installed, if it's the incorrect location u have to move them to the correct locations manually, in the install target of debian/rules
<thierry> I'm trying to create a .desktop file and to follow what's on this page
<\sh> thierry: then u have to create one, put it in debian/ dir and install it manually in debian rules install target and make sure it's also in the .install or .files files from the debian/dir so it's packaged
<LaserJock> siretart: mantha AT chem.unr.edu and ubuntu-science would be a good name
<siretart> LaserJock: Recipient address rejected: Policy Rejection: Please try later
<siretart> LaserJock: your mail system does not accept mails from me
<thierry> \sh : and how do I do to install it manually?
<\sh> thierry: the normal stuff..$(INSTALL) or /usr/bin/install or cp
<LaserJock> siretart: really, I don't think I've ever had that problem before
<siretart> seems to be some sort of greylisting
<LaserJock> siretart: can I give you another email address and change it later?
<siretart> LaserJock: the mail is still queued, I think you will get the email with the link and password in some time
<LaserJock> siretart: oh, ok. Thanks a ton.
<siretart> a ton. woah :)
<LaserJock> LaserJock: well, it really helps when people in different parts of the world with different schedules are trying to communicate. so yeah, I think a ton is appropriate ;-)
<siretart> LaserJock: ah, now you should have mail
<LaserJock> siretart: got it
<herve> hello
<siretart> LaserJock: okay. then you should be able to login at the admin interface and configure your list according to your needs
<LaserJock> ok, so has anybody noticed that --configfile doesn't work in pbuilder?
<LaserJock> siretart: thanks
<slomo_> it works for me
<LaserJock> slomo_: it only seems to work if the configfile is /etc/pbuilderrc or ~/.pbuilderrc
<LaserJock> slomo: which seems to me that it doesn't work
<slomo_> LaserJock: my configs are ~/.pbuilder/{dapper,breezy,sid,experimental}
<LaserJock> slomo_: really, that doesn't work for me. It just tries to do some default
<LaserJock> slomo_: I tried moving ~/.pbuilder/dapper/pbuilderrc to ~/.pbuilderrc_dapper and it didn't work either
<slomo> hmm
<\sh> ktorrent is synced...so nobody is touching it please
<LaserJock> slomo_: but if I moved ~/.pbuilderrc_dapper to ~/.pbuilderrc it worked
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you don't use --configfile?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes I do
<ajmitch> :0:> cat /home/ajmitch/bin/dbuild
<ajmitch> #!/bin/sh
<ajmitch> sudo pbuilder build $PBOPT --configfile ~/debian/pbuilder/configs/dapper.pbuilderrc $@
<ajmitch> that's the sort of setup I have
<ajmitch> with separate base tarballs of course :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: right, which doesn't seem to work for me
<ajmitch> worked for me all through breezy
<LaserJock> man, it seems to be just me then. What the heck am I doing wrong?
<ajmitch> phase of the moon
<slomo> bad karma ;)
<LaserJock> I guess, I have never been able to get multiple pbuilders to work
<ajmitch> yay, debian uploads accepted with new key
<LaserJock> lol, I figured it out. I was putting the --configfile before or after build *.dsc but it has to be between them
<ajmitch> yep :)
<ajmitch> why do you think I have a wrapper for it? ;)
<LaserJock> no kidding
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<herve> hey ajmitch!
<ajmitch> hello herve
<ajmitch> how are you?
<herve> fine, thanks
<herve> how's life going on?
<ajmitch> good :)
<ajmitch> just at work now, another day.. :)
<herve> I know the feeling :-)
<ajmitch> yay, now I can upload to ubuntu
<crimsun> ajmitch: rockin'
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<LaserJock> Kyral: I just sent you an email
<Kyral> LaserJock: I dont have X atm
<LaserJock> Kyral: ok, well thanks to siretart we now have a ubuntu-science mailing list
<Kyral> okay
<LaserJock> Kyral: have you heard anything from the FlowDesigner devs?
<Kyral> Not yet
* Kyral wonders what happened with the at and findutils packages...
<Kyral> what package has xargs...
<ajmitch> findutils on breezy
<ajmitch> which doesn't appear to have changed on dapper
<Kyral> I dunno but somehow it broke on me
<ajmitch> ok, it was synced from debian
<Kyral> I think the reinstall I just did fixed it
<Kyral> but I need to reboot to make sure
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<crimsun> at1as: (your [un] away notification is kinda grating)
<Kyral> Yah I think I know what went wrong...my computer must have crashed in the middle of something getting configured
<Kyral> Is there any logfile that I can look at to see what was being installed at that time?
<dholbach> Kyral: you could try dpkg --configure -a
<dholbach> and after that run     dpkg -l | grep -v ^ii    to see which packages are NOT fully installed
<siretart> ajmitch: elmo just added my key, did you get an notification, too?
<ajmitch> siretart: I got notification by irc
<siretart> cool! :)
<dholbach> :)
<siretart> ajmitch: ubuntu only or debian, too?
<dholbach> YAY! :)
<ajmitch> both
<siretart> cool!
<ajmitch> he said he did debian last night
<ajmitch> & I managed to upload a few packages
<ajmitch> so I ought to be able to upload to debian, ubuntu (main|universe) now
<dholbach> WOW
<dholbach> hoorray for ajmitch and siretart :)
<siretart> grats :)
<siretart> err, thanks! :)
<Gloubiboulga> congratulations guys
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<herve> is there a vim expert?
<herve> I want to search a character by its number
<jamessan|work> herve: example?
<herve> char 225
<herve> in latin1
<herve> lintian complains about a manpage
<ajmitch> herve: docbook problem, slomo tells me ;)
<jamessan|work> /<C-v>225
<herve> there is no docbook source :-)
<herve> thanks jamessan|work
<herve> I wouldn't like to mistype a Spanish name on purpose :-)
* Kyral scratches his head
<Kyral> I'm getting a lot of these "is not an ELF file" things
<ajmitch> sounds very very messed up
<Kyral> no kiddin'
<dholbach> hey herve
<herve> yo dholbach
<Kyral> I have no clue what it means either
<dholbach> was just about to leave
<\sh> siretart: ping
<herve> someone knows about manpages and encoding?
<herve> I'm disapointed it won't accept utf8 and not even full latin1
<\sh> siretart: do u still know why u added to kq the libxxf86vm-dev to build depends in hoary?
<\sh> herve: docbook2man is your friend? :)
<herve> ok ok, I'll write a source manpage in docbook for the next upstream release :-)
<\sh> hehe :)
<tseng_> does anyone remember that thing where nvidia binary drivers are slower than plain X for 2d?
<tseng_> and there was an option to go back to the standard 2d functions
<ajmitch> RenderAccel ?
<tseng_> no
<herve> about the AGP driver, no?
<tseng_> yes
<Kyral> this is really wierd
<Kyral> a bunch of files suddenly cannot be executed
<lucas> like ?
<Kyral> oh, gdm, fluxbox, atd
<lucas> ah
<Kyral> those are just the ones I have tried
<Kyral> reinstalling the packages fixes them
<Kyral> but its wierd
<herve> what file system?
<Kyral> ext3
<lucas> can you explain "cannot be executed" ?
<herve> so it just lost the executable bit?
<Kyral> nope. I'm just telling you what te error says
<herve> Kyral, you should reinstall them at once
<Kyral> Yah, but I have no idea which package are affected
<Kyral> s/packages/package
<Kyral> at least until I try them
<Kyral> wait a sec...maybe my errors from ldconfig and this are connected
<xerxas> ho do I generate de dsc file ? (for use with pbuilder)
<ajmitch> debuild -S
<Nafallo> pdebuild :-)
* ajmitch prefers to separate them :)
<Kyral> but how can I find out what libs belong to what package
<xerxas> thanks
<dholbach> Kyral: what information are you looking for exactly?
<ajmitch> dlocate -S
<xerxas> Nafallo, sorry for chan "cross posting"
<Kyral> dholbach: which packages certain libs belong to
<dholbach> does dlocate help?
<dholbach> or    grep <name> /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list
<Kyral> I didn't even know if its existance
<dholbach> or http://packages.ubuntu.com ?
<Kyral> until now
<dholbach> or apt-file :)
<dholbach> hope one of them does the job
<Kyral> dlocate it helping :D
<Kyral> somehow the last update from Dapper did something really wierd to my system
<jamessan|work> dpkg -S, too
<Kyral> huzzah!
<Kyral> its working!
<dholbach> have a nice evening... i'm off
* at1as is back.
<at1as> 
<thesaltydog> ciao ogra !
<Kyral> Lets see if this fixed things
<herve> ouch
<herve> full system failure
<Kyral> Well, I got X back
<Kyral> Now I just have to hunt down those other binaries
<Kyral> But what connects them...
<siretart> \sh: I'm currently at my 'stammtisch'
<siretart> \sh: regarding kq, I think to fix a FTBFS
<siretart> \sh: try building it withouth that builddep, if it succeeds, drop that dependency
<Kyral> ...now Evolution segfaults
<\sh> siretart: it's a sync then :) thx and party a lot :)
<LaserJock> if I have both debian and ubuntu pbuilder's do I need to seperate the aptcache?
<siretart> :)
<azeem> LaserJock: btw, I rebuilt ghemical for breezy at 'deb http://people.debian.org/~mbanck/ubuntu-breezy/ ./'
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's a good idea to keep debian & ubuntu apt caches separate
<Gloubiboulga> I've just built the songwrite package using the debian sources in a dapper chroot, without a change
<ajmitch> reduces the risk of strange bugs appearing when you don't expect it
<Gloubiboulga> Just ask for a sync on malone ?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: thanks, that is what I thought but I didn't know for sure
<ajmitch> Gloubiboulga: a sync should be fine, as the ubuntu changes were minimal :)
<Gloubiboulga> very minimal :)
<LaserJock> azeem: beautiful!  works like a charm
<azeem> I've been fiddling with updating the underlying libraries to the new C++ allocator over the weekend, but did not finish
<azeem> need to continue working on this paper now, should hopefully happen tomorrow
<LaserJock> azeem: I wonder if it could get on the backport repo? When we get it in dapper I will make a request on the ubuntu forums
<azeem> the ones to go in dapper will be harder to backport, as you'd need to rename the libraries back I guess
<LaserJock> azeem: well, when the time comes maybe I can work on that ;-) It sure would be nice to have it for everybody in Breezy.
<azeem> yeah
<LaserJock> azeem: looks like backports would be a no go. http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=492113&postcount=8
<herve> ok, I've written my manpage with docbook -:)
<azeem> LaserJock: oh, ok
* Kyral groans
<Kyral> why is Evolution segfaulting
<\sh> segfaulting?
<\sh> or not responding?
<Kyral> segfault
<\sh> hmm
<herve> its libraries may be affected
<Kyral> which wouldn't be surprising givin the current state of my system
<\sh> not here..
<\sh> but I didn't update properly cause debtags is segfaulting here...happy new libstdc++ fun is starting somehow :)
<Kyral> I wonder if compiling from scratch will fix this
<\sh> wait until we're finished with rebuilding everything :)
<\sh> ok..going to bed now....
<\sh> i did enough for today..
<ajmitch> night \sh
<Kyral> I think I need to reinstall every package on my system
<\sh> good night ajmitch and have a nice day down under :)
<Kyral> Huzzah!
<Kyral> I got it back!
<Kyral> Best part about Linux
<Kyral> you break something and as you fix it you learn a crapload :D
<Gloubiboulga> bye
<lucas> siretart: I've worked on motutools tonight
<lucas> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTools#preview
<lucas> oops
<lucas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTools
<lucas> I'd very much like some feedback/patches ;)
<Pygi> ah :)
<LaserJock> lucas, I noticed with your ruby example before you looked for binary packages and then got a list of the corresponding source packages. Is that because apt-rdepends only works on binary packages?
<Kyral> LaserJock: I just checked my email
<lucas> there's no "Depends" for source packages
<Kyral> I haven't gotten a reply from the FlowDesigner devs
<lucas> only build-dep
<LaserJock> lucas: ah, that makes sense
<LaserJock> lucas: the mts arguments seem awfully long (getpkglistfromreversedepends for instance)
<lucas> well, this one is not implemented yet
<lucas> it will probably be list_from_rdepends
<LaserJock> lucas: but are you going to use flags ? that would make it a lot easier
<lucas> and I'll add nicknames, I think
<lucas> flags ?
<LaserJock> lucas: well like -l or -n or something like that
<lucas> well, the cmd line interface is simple :
<lucas> mts [-v]  command [command's options] 
<lucas> so the command's option might use flags
<LaserJock> lucas: ok, makes sense
<lucas> and the different commands are implemented in different scripts
<lucas> so that one can write his own script without breaking the rest of them
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sistpoty> slomo: did you come to testbuild ghc6?
<slomo> sistpoty: ah yes... worked fine on amd64
<sistpoty> phew... cool :)
<sistpoty> thx
<slomo> but it needs much memory
<slomo> maybe it's really oom on the buildds
<slomo> did you ask lamont/infinity?
<sistpoty> not yet... was at my parents over the weekeng
<sistpoty> weekend even
<slomo> oh ok :) was it good?
<sistpoty> yes :)
<sistpoty> btw.: elmo added me to the keyring, yeehaaa!
<slomo> hehe... congrats :)
<sistpoty> thx
<tritium> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> tritium: did you see the email I sent you? I wasn't sure about the address
<tritium> LaserJock: yeah, about the mailing list?  Thanks.
<LaserJock> ok, so bug day is on Thanksgiving? that's going to be hard to do
<Pygi> true :/
<Kyral> Screw that
<Kyral> My grandma's cooking after 4 months of campus food
<Kyral> I'm not gonna miss that for the world
<LaserJock> Kyral: lol, college can do that to you
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-27
<Kyral> LaserJock: any of your MOTU-Science packages get through REVU yet?
<Kyral> hey is gnome-desktop-environment just a metapack?
<schweeb> yea, most likely
<Kyral> k, because this guy on the forums is wanting to remove Firefox
<schweeb> if it doesn't say in the package name, only real way is to either install it, or look at the source I would think
<Kyral> and its taking a load of metapacks out with it
<schweeb> gnome-desktop-env is a universe package, so it's not necessarily important
<schweeb> (I don't have it installed)
<Kyral> Yea, neither do I
<Kyral> heck I don't have gnome-core installed either
<schweeb> I really don't see a need to remove firefox either, but *shrug*
<Kyral> He wants to
<Kyral> and Linux is all about choices
<schweeb> guess so
<LaserJock> Kyral: no, I got one vote before a new upstream release and my count got reset ;-)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I bet after the merge is done
<LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, that's what I'm thinking
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<bmonty> how is everything today in MOTU land?
<bmonty> ...and why do you guys keep responding to this Rod Lovett guy on the devel ML?
<ajmitch> bmonty: because people enjoy pain
<bmonty> hehe...he has troll written all over his messages
<bmonty> they should just blacklist his address and be done with it
<ajmitch> aha, nice reply to his message from ivan :)
<zakame> hi
<crimsun> 'lo
<sistpoty> oops... don't look at the merge page atm ;)
<ajmitch> why not? :)
* LaserJock runs to see ;-)
<ajmitch> mmm, nice traceback
<ajmitch> sistpoty broke the db? :)
<sistpoty> kind of... ;)
<sistpoty> should be fine now
<crimsun> aww I miss all the good boogs ;)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: what is the stdc++ column for on the revu MoM pages?
<sistpoty> these are packages that need to be renamed/rebuilt for libstdc++ reconfiguration
<crimsun> if they're affected by the libstdc++ allocator change
<crimsun> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-November/013025.html
<sistpoty> exactly... is this list complete? or does it draw in depending/other packages as well?
<crimsun> it should be complete
<sistpoty> ok, then I'll update the database with this info in a few secs... this time there should be no downtime ;)
<sistpoty> *crossing fingers*
<sistpoty> update done
<LaserJock> so there is about 13 in the done pile that will need to be redone
<sistpoty> they need to be rebuilt at least
<LaserJock> I guess that won't be to bad. It's really nice to have a list like that
<sistpoty> siretart told me it would be nice to have it this afternoon... well here it is
<sistpoty> ;)
<sistpoty> he told me this afternoon i meant ;)
<sistpoty> the nasty thing is that for the current list, you'd need to file a merge bug to move it from unassigned to accepted. maybe I'll adjust the email-parser to also allow other bug-titles to move these packages. But not tonight ;)
<LaserJock> ok, I aske once about awk as a build dependency but I can't remember if it was a no-no or if it was ok?
<LaserJock> asked I mean
<sistpoty> awk is required, which means it's a no-no, unless you need a specific version
<LaserJock> so I think that I was told to file a bug report with debian about it rather than fix it in the merge (to minimize the delta)
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure what to say.  Just "build dependency awk is not required"?
<sistpoty> yeah, something like that would be good... eventually you might add a patch as well ;)
<LaserJock> k, thanx
<sistpoty> but it's ok, if you fix it in the merge, as long as you file a bug report. you can still request a sync later, once debian also incorporated the fix
<xerxas> good night
<StrikeForce> bbh
<StrikeForce> vggyyy y7kk7\
<sistpoty> StrikeForce: don't fall asleep on your keyboard ;)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I still am not quite catching this awk thing. I removed awk from the build dep and everything seems to build fine but there isn't a mention of awk anywhere. So why was it a build dep in the first place?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe in somewhere in a script?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: what package are you referring to?
<LaserJock> tex-guy
<Kyral> well thats a pain
<Kyral> I lost one of my onboard SATA connectors
<LaserJock> ok, aclocal.m4 and configure use awk
<LaserJock> Kyral: that sucks
<ajmitch> 'lost'?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> it came off
<Kyral> literally
<Kyral> well, its still attached, but disattached enough that it was no longer working
<Kyral> Just another thing in my computer's screwed up history
<Kyral> Guys I need a solution
<Kyral> could someone using a LiveCD, make a Linux partition
<LaserJock> sistpoty: so is it ok to take awk out of the build deps ?
<Kyral> jump into it
<Kyral> and somehow install the system FROM the LiveCD?
<ajmitch> Kyral: UbuntuExpress
<ajmitch> see the specs, it's planned for dapper
<Kyral> Is it out yet?
<ajmitch> there is preliminary work done on it
<Kyral> is there any current method
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> not sure how well it works
<Kyral> do tell
<ajmitch> impilinux has some, and the guadalinex guys also
<Kyral> anything from the LiveCD?
<ajmitch> well it's all meant to be used from the live cd
<Kyral> well this guy fubared his MBR
<Kyral> before getting Ubuntu on it
<ajmitch> and?
<Kyral> he can't restore it
<ajmitch> simple to fix
<Kyral> running install-grub should work
<ajmitch> so should installing the mbr package & using the mbr contained within
<ajmitch> to get windows back
<Kyral> sudo apt-get install mbr?
<ajmitch> have a look
<sistpoty> LaserJock: if that's your only change, I'd prefer a sync instead of removing awk (because you don't need to care afterwards)
<ajmitch> there's also ms-sys
<Kyral> But install-grub would work?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: there are some other build-dep changes as well
<ajmitch> it'd just overwrite it
<sistpoty> LaserJock: then it's up to you ;)
<Kyral> the MBR doesn't work right now
<Kyral> somehow the XP one died
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I just don't understand how it would work to remove awk. Shouldn't it dep on something?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: since awk is "required" it will always be installed on the buildd. same for things in build-essential, like gcc
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I guess this is a stupid question but how does it know it's required?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: look at the priority field ;)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: awk is a virtual package which depends on mawk or gawk... mawk has priority required
<LaserJock> sistpoty: aww, I see
<Kyral> hey mitch, that ms-sys thing works right?
<ajmitch> how would I know?
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> I just did apt-cache search
<Kyral> oh well
<Kyral> his MBR wasn't working before
<Kyral> so it couldn't hurt
<sistpoty> I'm off to bed... gn8
<ajmitch> night sistpoty
<Kyral> about how much RAM od you need to load the LiveCD into RAM?
<Kyral> or can you hot swap the LiveCD out if you need to use the drive
<crimsun> Kyral: you need at least 256 MB RAM
<Kyral> oh?
<crimsun> you can load it with 128, but it'll be a bit disastrous
<Kyral> but 512 is enough?
<crimsun> 512 is plenty
* Kyral whews
<Kyral> I've been helping this guy who accidently nuked his MBR
<Kyral> and he only has one CD drive
<crimsun> I have some 256 MB machines that run 5.10/live just fine
<Kyral> so for the toram option 256 is good?
<crimsun> the more the better up to a certain point unless you customise the kernel
<Kyral> just hit toram at the prompt right?
<crimsun> I'm not even familiar with that option...
<Kyral> It loads the LiveCD into RAM so the CD Drive is freed up
<crimsun> hmm, I need to try that.
<crimsun> cool, sistpoty merged hugs98
<ajmitch> Kyral: why do you need to swap out the live cd?
<crimsun> I can look forward to tomorrow afternoon's lecture
<Kyral> Because this guy only has one CD Drive
<Kyral> and his Install CD is corrupt
<Kyral> and his MBR his shot
<Kyral> and he needs to burn a new copy of the Install CD :P
<Kyral> Yah something went REALLY wrong
<LaserJock> can somebody download the debian source for gpib ?
<LaserJock> and can I get somebody to ask elmo to sync xchat-systray?
<Kyral> and imview-doc
<crimsun> later.
<LaserJock> nvm about the gpib stuff, it looks like MoM mangled it
<Kyral> I like seth_k's quit msg
<LaserJock> if you reinstall your system does your gpg key get messed up?
<zerokarmaleft> LaserJock: you'll want to backup .gnupg or export your keys
<LaserJock> zerokarmaleft: even if I didn't wipe out /home ?
<zerokarmaleft> then you should be fine
<LaserJock> hmm, I seem to be having a problem in thunderbird
<LaserJock> when I look at an email that I signed I get "gpg: BAD signature"
<siggen> Hi ..
<siggen> I was hoping to become an ubuntu developer. I was also merely wondering about the steps invloved.
<LaserJock> siggen: I would look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember and wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo
<Kyral> I hate cold showers....*shiver*
<siggen> .. :/
<ajmitch> siggen: the first steps are generally packaging new software or fixing existing packages
<ajmitch> and we've got plenty to fix :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: I suspect siggen was asking how to get involved? I'm interested in getting involved too.
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> for example, one of our main tasks at the moment is merging changes that we made in breezy with changes in debian
<ajmitch> we try & keep the changes as small as possible, but it's still a few hundred packages
* StevenK nods.
<ajmitch> you're a DD, right?
<StevenK> How about new upstream versions for dapper? I got sick of Amarok 1.3.1 being in Breezy and Dapper and so backported 1.3.6 to Breezy, but it would be even more trivial to push it to Dapper.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Right.
<ajmitch> yes, we're doing new upstream versions where appropriate
<ajmitch> amarok is done by the kubuntu team
<ajmitch> we don't have many DDs in the MOTU team, sadly
* StevenK ponders hassling them.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Order me around, I'll do stuff. :-)
<ajmitch> you want to do merges? http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new is a small list :)
<ajmitch> 473 unassigned
<StevenK> ajmitch: Be gentle, this will be my first one.
<ajmitch> you're not new to packaging though :)
<StevenK> Nope.
<StevenK> Lemee start by making a dapper pbuilder.
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge has the steps in detail
<ajmitch> people are using a script to file the malone bugs for the merges
<ajmitch> something we really want to do for dapper is get changes back into debian where possible
<StevenK> By NMU'ing or by filing bugs?
<ajmitch> suggestions are welcome for how to get this done with minimal flames
<StevenK> :-P
<ajmitch> since I'm about the only MOTU who's a DD currently, I'd hate to try & NMU the universe
<lifeless> heh
* StevenK chuckles.
<lifeless> that would -hurt-
<ajmitch> I'd probably get death threats or something :)
<StevenK> "I'm preparing to NMU ... the entire of Debian."
* StevenK curses. pbuilder doesn't know about dapper.
<Kyral> StevenK: Duplicate your Breezy one and upgrade it to Dapper
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> That assumes I have a Breezy one.
<StevenK> (Which I do. :-)
<Kyral> hehe
<Kyral> its not like its hard :P
<ajmitch> more australians.. :)
<Lathiat> heh
<ajmitch> hello wjb
<wjb> hello
<StevenK> Yes, we're invading.
<wjb> g'day, rather
<ajmitch> I thought we were doing that to you?
<StevenK> Shush.
<ajmitch> 1/2 a million kiwis in .au already :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: It's not like it matters to the rest of the world - most of them consider .nz to a state of .au anyway. :-P
<StevenK> Er, to be a
<crimsun> Has anyone chatted with Scott Ritchie lately?
<ajmitch> like the LCA organisers
<StevenK> ajmitch: *nod*
<crimsun> (I'm wondering what the status of wine 0.9 is, particularly if we can sync from Sid)
<ajmitch> reminds me that I should try my credit card on the LCA page again
<StevenK> ajmitch: Surely we don't need to merge in linux-kernel-di-{i386,powerpc}-2.6?
<ajmitch> no, we certainly don't
<ajmitch> some packages should be removed & blacklisted
<StevenK> Gnome should also be killed from that list.
<StevenK> That reminds me. I really need to decide if I'm going to LCA '06
<ajmitch> might as well
<StevenK> Heh.
<ajmitch> it's probably just as cheap as flying to perth
<StevenK> Cheaper.
<ajmitch> apart from taxes
* StevenK makes a note to bug his boss about it tomorrow.
<ajmitch> I just told mine that I'm going
<ajmitch> as it's only about 10 minutes from here
* StevenK forces his VPN to work up.
* ajmitch wishes this upgrade would go just a little faster
<StevenK> Lala.
* StevenK just did Breezy->Dapper in 10 minutes.
<ajmitch> pbuilder still upgrading?
<ajmitch> not bad
<Kyral> Night all
<Lathiat> wow
<Lathiat> took me like
<Lathiat> 30 mins+
<ajmitch> night Kyral
<ajmitch> it'll take me a bit longer than that
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> Apparently, changes were persistant, but /etc/issue has gone back to breezy.
<StevenK> Maybe I needed both --save options.
<ajmitch> ok, paid up for LCA
<ajmitch> now I can get back to packaging
* StevenK wrangles pbuilder.
<ajmitch> why did I take on debian maintenance of a php package?
<StevenK> Muahahaha
<ajmitch> especially one that has pending security fixes
<crimsun> because you love pain?
<ajmitch> obviously
* StevenK the BoM. Chance of a shower my right foot.
<StevenK> Er, curses the BoM. :-)
<StevenK> Right. One dapper pbuilder base tarball. For some reason it happens to be 320Mb.
<ajmitch> that's fairly large
<StevenK> Compared to Breezy, which is 70Mb, it's massive.
<Lathiat>  /var/cache/apt/archives not cleaned or something?
<StevenK> Just about to do that.
<StevenK> 173Mb. Much better.
<ajmitch> hm, looks like amarok 1.3.6 is in dapper now
<StevenK> Whee!
<ajmitch> as of yesterday
<ajmitch> hey viviersf
<viviersf> morning
<viviersf> how you ?
<StevenK> Hrm. packages.u.c hasn't been updated yet.
<ajmitch> I'm good
<StevenK> 73Mb. All better.
<StevenK> So, does someone want to give me a rundown, or thrown me at the dummy's guide to merging?
<StevenK> s/\(throw\)n/\1/
<dholbach> good morning
<crimsun> re daniel
<dholbach> hey daniel :)
<dholbach> how are you?
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey andrew
<crimsun> dholbach: not bad, yourself?
<dholbach> i'm waking up, but i'm fine :)
<crimsun> rockin'
* StevenK comes back to his workstation sitting at gdm.
<StevenK> Which is ... interesting.
<zakame> 'lo
<dholbach> hi zakame :)
<zakame> ei dholbach :)
<zakame> I'm reading up on LWP now, working on (hopefully) a set of cli tools to interact with Malone
<freeflying> crimsun: ping
<crimsun> freeflying: pong
<freeflying> crimsun: zhcon can't support utf8
<Treenaks> freeflying: so?
<freeflying> Treenaks: cce can
<Treenaks> freeflying: gnome-terminal works fine
<Treenaks> xterm too
<Treenaks> urxvt as well, or so I heard
<freeflying> Treenaks: these can not work under console
<Treenaks> freeflying: my console runs in unicode mode anyway
<crimsun> freeflying: what seems to be the issue? Does the Debian version work perfectly, whereas Ubuntu's doesn't?
<freeflying> crimsun: zhcon will not develop
<crimsun> meaning it's unmaintained, or...?
<freeflying> crimsun: the author of zhcon will not work on it
<crimsun> ok, so it's unmaintained. Is this issue present in Debian's package, too?
<freeflying> crimsun: same as ubuntu
<crimsun> freeflying: I'm not sure what this has to do with cee.
<crimsun> cce, rather
<freeflying> crimsun: with patch ,cce can work well under utf8
<crimsun> right, but cce isn't in Dapper
<freeflying> crimsun: cce in debian dosen't support utf8
<crimsun> freeflying: there's no cce source in Dapper at all
<crimsun> freeflying: I'm all for applying a patch that will make it work, but it's moot if the source doesn't even exist in the archive
<freeflying> crimsun: may it be sync from ddebian
<crimsun> freeflying: it doesn't exist in Debian, either, except in oldstable
<crimsun> freeflying: moreover, that version in oldstable is even older than the version that is in warty/hoary/breezy
<freeflying> crimsun: it exsit in breezy ,how can it be included in dapper?
<crimsun> freeflying: that's more likely an issue that the Tech Board can address
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<crimsun> re \sh
<shawarma> Hi guys!
<shawarma> I have a Makefile that includes a bunch of dependency files and a target that creates these dependency files.. I would like to be able to run the clean target without generating all these dependency files... How can I do that?
<shawarma> I guess you could say that what I actually want is to NOT include these dependency files if I'm just running the clean target... Is that even possible?
<shawarma> Never mind. I just remembered the name of the make irc channel (#devtools). I'll ask there instead.
<\sh> moins
<siretart> morning!
<ajmitch> morning siretart!
<\sh> hey siretart
<ajmitch> only ~1000 more packages to upgrade to get this box up to dapper :)
<dholbach> ROCK :)
<ajmitch> then the real fun can start
<\sh> ajmitch: aehm
<\sh> ajmitch: debtags will segfault right now
<ajmitch> \sh: no surprise
<siretart> writing makefiles for embedded operating systems is NOT fun :/
<ajmitch> but I don't have it installed :)
<\sh> sistpoty: u rock :)
<sivang> hi all
<siretart> oh yes, he does!
<ajmitch> what does he rock for today?
<jsgotangco> hiya
<ajmitch> hi
<jsgotangco> how cold is 2deg C?
<Treenaks> jsgotangco: almost freezing
<Treenaks> jsgotangco: (0C = freezing)
<jsgotangco> gyahh
* jsgotangco is going to seoul next week
<Treenaks> jsgotangco: [F]  = [C]   9/5 + 32
<jsgotangco> oh my i hope it still doesnt snow
<ajmitch> :)
<Treenaks> jsgotangco: what's wrong with snow? )
* Treenaks loves snow
<\sh> ajmitch: he inserted a column for stdc++ in revu mom tool :=
<ajmitch> I feel like joining in ubuntu development with the MOTUs
<ajmitch> \sh: ah that
<ajmitch> \sh: I saw when he broke it earlier :)
<jsgotangco> Treenaks, i'm a tropical person don't really like snow (last experience was bad)
* StevenK waits for the huge storm to hit.
<StevenK> And I'm confused - I was looking to merge in xcruise, which REVU MoM said it needed to be, but xcruise 1.0.6-1ubuntu1 is in dapper already ....
<ajmitch> because the list on REVU is automatically generated
<ajmitch> & the person who did xcruise didn't file the bug with the exact required title, I think
<StevenK> Right.
<StevenK> Then I looked at sawfish and got myself neatly tied up in a knot trying to figure out what to do about rep-gtk, so now I'm back to looking for a easy one.
<ajmitch> aha :)
<StevenK> Hah. openoffice.org.
<StevenK> Yeah, let's merge that. :-P
<ajmitch> most of the zope ones can be ignored, since they're nearly all 'package orphaned in debian'
<ajmitch> sure, why not? :)
<StevenK> Hurray! I found one!
<StevenK> offlineimap looks pretty simple.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Feel like holding my hand? :-)
<ajmitch> just go for it :)
<ajmitch> it has a nice small patch
<ajmitch> nothing dropped
<ajmitch> review the patch, I can see 1 patch hunk that shouldn't be applied
<ajmitch> 2 now, both are just for the version number
<StevenK> You're reading the ubuntu patch?
<ajmitch> the merged debdiff
<ajmitch> which is generally the one that matters
<ajmitch> btw I recommend getting the motu-tools branch from http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/ with bzr
<ajmitch> & using it for filing the bugs in malone
<lucas> ajmitch: we should discuss the naming of "tools for MOTUs" packages
<lucas> I started working on my own set of tools, which is more about dealing with packages lists
<ajmitch> yes, I saw that
<lucas> currently it is motutools without "-"
<ajmitch> StevenK: you can use it like:
<ajmitch>  ./newmerge.py --new nautilus-python
<\sh> uh oh...TV station is doing some recordings here
<ajmitch> fun
<\sh> colleague of mine was spreading ubuntu cds all over my desk
<sivang> fun
<sivang> \sh: seems you have an interesting workplace :)
<Treenaks> \sh: you did some "hug day" things as well? :P
<ajmitch> well I'm going to go & sleep
<ajmitch> night all
<Treenaks> ajmitch: night
<StevenK> Wheee.
* StevenK gets back from moving his car under cover.
<\sh> Treenaks: "hug day things as well?"
<Treenaks> \sh: ask dholbach
<\sh> Treenaks: I will do the new cxx trans and some other merges :)
<bmgz> Annoying Magick::Image.read() problem with rmagick-ruby package (Ruby ImageMagick Lib) anyone encountered this?
<bmgz> The first 8 characters of the filename are ignored?
<bmgz> so I have to Magick::Image.read("xxxxxxxxmyfile.jpg")...??
<bmgz> any1?
<viviersf> ive had just about enough of grub
<dredg> but grub tastes like happy
<raphink> grub \o/
<pef> what's the policy about packages having non available entry in Suggest/Recommends ?
<pef> should I delete the entry and make a new revision ?
<bmgz> anyone know where to find a _working_ rmagick-ruby package?
<dholbach> bmgz: if it used to work, you could try reading the changelog
<bmgz> never used to work..
<dholbach> hmm, upstream cvs? upstream bugzilla?
<bmgz> naaah a bug report was posted over a year ago..
<bmgz> obviously not important enough
<bmgz> I suppose I'll have to dith the rubyonrails effort, I don't have time for bugs..
<shawarma> When you guys want to package a new package, how do you get started? Do you usually do it manually, use dh_make or copy off of some similar package?
<shawarma> or do you maybe have your own private template?
<dredg> usually i dh_make it and edit the output
<dredg> but more recently i've had to package about 20 perl modules for work and dh-make-perl is my new friend
<shawarma> Ok.
<shawarma> I used to use dh_make, too, but I spent soo much time removing stuff, so I started copying off of others, which so far seems like a good way to go..
<dredg> i don't think it really matters as long as it doesn't suck :)
<shawarma> dredg: Nor do I, I was really just looking for some tips from the more experienced people here.
<dholbach> slomo, lathiat: new gnome-user-share :)
<slomo> dholbach: *sigh* i'll never finish maths :P /me updates it
<dholbach> :)
<slomo> dholbach: oh no, we need avahi 0.6 first
<Lathiat> before what?
<Lathiat> apart from everything ;)
<dholbach> new g-user-share
<slomo> Lathiat: new gnome-user-share
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> was it updated to avahi .6 api?
<slomo> yes
<Lathiat> cool
<Lathiat> 0.6 or 0.7 ?
<Lathiat> i think g-u-s was 0.6
<Lathiat> like di da new version after the first avahi supporting version come out?
<slomo> gnome-user-share 0.9 needs avahi >= 0.6
<Lathiat> ah ok
<Lathiat> cool
<slomo> Lathiat: btw, what are the remaining issues stopping avahi to get into main?
<Lathiat> slomo: i have no idea
<Lathiat> i've been tryign to fidn out whats blocking the zeroconf spec among other things
<Lathiat> no one seems to know
<Lathiat> all is aw one the approvaer had some 'technical issues' with it
<Lathiat> as for the main incl report for avahi im not sure
<slomo> hmm... so ask pitti what the problems with avahi itself are
<StevenK> Seems kinda wrong preparing a merge with an @d.o address ...
<StrikeForce> if there is a new upstream version do I revert back to 0.1 in the numbering scheme?
<dholbach> a new upstream version, debian does not have yet?
<StrikeForce> dholbach, yeah debian doesn't have rufus
<dholbach> then it's -0ubuntu1
<StrikeForce> dholbach, ok thanks
<zakame> hi all
<StrikeForce> hi zakame
<StrikeForce> can someoen point me to where I can learn how to setup mime files?
<zakame> hi StrikeForce
<StrikeForce> in the packages
<StrikeForce> so that bittorrent can be associated with rufus?
<zakame> hi pef
<StrikeForce> is anyone else having dependancy issues with debhelper?
<StrikeForce> what filebrowser do we use?
<pef> hey zakame  :)
<zakame> ei pef :D
<tseng_> nice, debhelper is uninstallable
<StrikeForce> tseng, yeah
<StrikeForce> I thought it might be just me
<zakame> in the latest dapper?
<StrikeForce> zakame, thats what I was asking earlier
<StrikeForce> due to dependancy issues
<zakame> gaah
<StrikeForce> Depends: po-debconf but it is not installable
<StrikeForce> on a side note
<StrikeForce> I have a .desktop file installed
<StrikeForce> and I haven't made a direct link to the icon but just listed it there and obviously installed it into the right directory
<StrikeForce> how do I make the desktop file find the icon without referencing it directly
<_pef> StrikeForce: just put the icon name I think
<StrikeForce> yeah I've done that however it still doesn't find it?
<_pef> kmail.desktop uses icon=kmail
<StrikeForce> I've just adjusted it so I'll wait and see
<StrikeForce> I thought I had done it
<zakame> is python2.1 and 2.2 to be dropped in dapper?
<ogra> 2.3 hopefully too :)
<tseng_> did debian do the 2.4 transition?
<ogra> sadly not completely ...
<ogra> looks like we need to kepp it for dapper
<ogra> :/
<tseng_> i see
<tseng_> i have a feeling we'll be doing alot of crazy stuff in dapper+1
<zakame> I'm asking since logilab-common's mom debdiff seems to drop these, so it build for 2.3 and 2.4
<StrikeForce> there seems to be a some deps of python2.3's left in some debian packages
<tseng_> how often does MoM run?
<ogra> zakame, if you merge a package and it already has 2.4 bindings in, you should try o make it work with 2.4
<zakame> ogra: 2.4 only?  it seems to build fine as it is, but I think the current b-ds from debian are a bit heavy, ranging from 2.1 to 2.4
<ogra> zakame, we dont have/support < 2.3
<jsgotangco> hello
<zakame> ogra: ok, I shall do a new debdiff then ;)
<chx> hi. there is a problem with sshfs in dapper. apt-get install sshfs errors with http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/s/sshfs-fuse/sshfs_1.2-1_i386.deb
<chx> and http://www.mail-archive.com/dapper-changes@lists.ubuntu.com/msg00464.html according to this there is indeed a newer one
<ogra> chx, did you file a bug ?
<chx> ogra: not yet.. do not even know where and hwo
<chx> s/hwo/how
<ogra> chx, malone
<chx> ogra: elaborate?
<ogra> https://launchpad.net
<Kyral> I love transitions
<Kyral> Epiphany broke
<Kyral> Why does Epiphany depend on Firefox anyway...
<chx> oh launchpad...
<chx> ogra: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/i386/+search?text=sshfs
<ogra> Kyral, rewrite it to depend on dillo ;)
<Kyral> dillo?
<Kyral> Yes, you must love the ability of Open Source
<Kyral> you don't like how a program works you have the right to rewrite it
<Kyral> but I'm about to go on Thanksgiving break so
<tseng_> epiphany uses gtkmozembed from mozilla/firefox
<tseng_> because gtkhtml isnt nearly as good for general purpose web rendering
<Kyral> oh ogra did you ever get around to signing my key?
<ogra> Kyral, not yet ...
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> I signed your, mind if I upoad it to the servers?
<tseng_> you should really mail it to him
<Kyral> I forgot the GPG command to generate the attachment X_X
<chx> ogra: the above URL reveals nothing, i really would like to file a bug against sshfs but can't find it:(
<jsgotangco> there's a nifty script to do that
<ogra> chx, file it against unknown ?
<zakame> ogra: going back at python packages, should I drop b-ds for python2.3-dev, only to leave 2.4?
<ogra> zakame, if it works without 2.3
<zakame> ok, will try :D
<zakame> can some motu please check malone 4635 , debdiff? thanks :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4635: common (Ubuntu) - logilab-common: merge new debian version Fix req. for: logilab-common (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4635
<zakame> night all :D
<siretart> gn8 zakame
<siretart> how to name a skript which fetches source packages from the mirror with the distribution and package configurable?
<jamessan|work> can't you do that with "apt-get source ..." ?
<siretart> jamessan|work: no, I need this to work with several repositories, at the minimum ubuntu, debian and marillat
<siretart> and easily extensible
<siretart> jamessan|work: I now reinvestigated your suggestion, and indeed this does work. the problem is, that I have to work around the bug, that apt does not respect the --target-release option when fetching source packages :/
<jamessan|work> siretart: I thought that had been fixed already
<jamessan|work>   * support for apt-get [build-dep|source]  -t (closes: #152129)
<jamessan|work> apt 0.6.42
* siretart rechecks
<siretart> jamessan|work: ah, thats apt in dapper. interesting
<siretart> this faciliates quite a bit
<\sh> re
<siretart> hi \sh
<\sh> libstdc++ love?
<jamessan|work> :)
<\sh> debtags?
<siretart> \sh: huh?
<\sh> apt needs a rebuild...mvo is working on it because of the new allocator in g++
<\sh> debtags e.g. segfaults because of this
<siretart> excellent, and I'll need apt from dapper on tiber :/
* siretart tries a 'backport'
<\sh> siretart: rebuilding should work...if you have actually the new g++ installed
<siretart> \sh: new g++? doesn't it build with g++ from breezy?
<\sh> siretart: it will..
<siretart> but?
<\sh> oh u need to backport it...i thought u want to compile it on dapper :)
<siretart> ok
<kiko> hey hey
<kiko> how's it going?
<dholbach> hi kiko
<kiko> heya dholbach
<dholbach> you want to get involved in the motu crowd as well? :)
<dholbach> how are you?
<kiko> I was more looking for somebody interested in packaging kiwi (a python extension to pygtk) :)
<kiko> not too bad, and the weather is perfect!
<dholbach> kiko: i will talk to all the motu-python-fans
<dholbach> kiko: until now, you could put it on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
<kiko> I know that ajmitch saved me once with pyflakes
<dholbach> so we don't loose track of it :)
<kiko> but somebody stole his laptop!
<dholbach> yeah :(
<dholbach> i wish we would have caught those thieves
<dholbach> ...after a long day of spec-writing...
<kiko> would have been fun sport
<dholbach> yes, i think so :)
<dholbach> if i ever see a lazy motu, i will introduce them to the delights of pyflakes and kiwi
<kiko> I don't think such a thing exists
<dholbach> what? a lazy motu? :)
<kiko> yes!
<dholbach> that's a nice thing to say :)
* dholbach hugs kiko
<lfittl> dholbach: Could you review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=995 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=996 again?
<dholbach> sure
<lfittl> :)
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> is the libhtkembedmoz.so used in Thunderbird the same as the one used in Firefox?
<kiko> gtk you mean, yes?
<kiko> most probably not
<Kyral> dangit
<kiko> dholbach, my man, kiwi is now listed on UniverseCandidates
<dholbach> kiko: rock'n'roll
<Kyral> Epiphany was crippled with the last update to firefox because the file disappeared
<kiko> dholbach, I owe you big-time if you make it happen for dapper
<Kyral> yet it exists in thunderbird's dir
<dholbach> kiko: i will keep it in mind
<kiko> thanks
<Kyral> I was gonna symlink them together
<kiko> and depend on each other? I think they aren't the same because gtkmozembed moves quickly and the releases are not time-synced
<Kyral> yah thats why I asked :P
* Kyral wonders why dlocate says that firefox provides the file, yet when it installs it isn't there
<raphink> help I'm getting crazy!
<Kyral> Welcome to the club
<raphink> :(
<raphink> I've been trying to package a library since yesterday
<raphink> after 3 hours of work I eventually found out where the .so. where in the source when compiled
<raphink> but they don't appear when I build my package!
<raphink> :( :( :(
<allee> raphink: hi, what do you pkg?
<raphink> a new lib, called libeduwidgetclock
<raphink> part of kalcul
<raphink> I pkg kalcul @ the same time of course ;
<allee> raphink: eh? are libeduwidgetclock and kalcul in same or different tarballs?
<raphink> different
<raphink> they were initially in the same
<raphink> I asked the mainstream dev to separate them
<raphink> so now I have to build this lib package
<allee> raphink: ah, so others apps are using libeduwidgetclock too
<raphink> not yet allee
<raphink> please don't tell me I don't need to separate them
<raphink> i've been told the goal is : no lintian output
<raphink> and lintian said it should be separated
<slomo> you need to separate library packages anyway...
<slomo> -dev and normal package
<Kyral> slomo: did you get your problems sorted out?
<raphink> allee: are you MOTU?
<slomo> Kyral: no... as apt is broken and the important cached archives too i can't do anything from a livecd with a chroot... i'll reinstall everything at the weekend :/
<allee> raphink: oh, okay I don't say it ;) Other way round: lintian is not perfect.  But you're only in trouble is upstream does not care about API stability and soname of libeduwidgetclock ;)
<Kyral> slomo: how is Apt broken?
<raphink> allee: PM
<allee> raphink: no, I'm not a MOTU.  Is it okay when I help you neverhteless? :)
<slomo> Kyral: libstdc++
<Kyral> that broke too?
<Kyral> I just reinstalled it
<Kyral> sudo apt-get --reinstall install foo
<slomo> Kyral: well, as apt-get is broken and the cached archive.... dpkg too btw ;)
<Kyral> ouch
<Kyral> This is what we get for being cocky :D
<slomo> Kyral: i have a feeling that the whole filesystem is damaged
<kiko-afk> ajmitch_!
<Kyral> slomo: :(
<Kyral> do the fsck tools work?
<ajmitch_> kiko!
<slomo> Kyral: fortunately i have /home on a different partition ;) i hope this one is still working after reinstalling
<Kyral> slomo: I think that having /home mounted elsewhere should be Ubuntu's default config :D
<slomo> Kyral: no idea... i'll just reinstall... that way i finally get a clean system again ;) i have stuff from hoary times flying around there
<Kyral> (well, every Distro's default config)
<slomo> Kyral: yes... i can second that ;)
<Kyral> Let us draft a proposal for Dapper :D
<Kyral> But....after Thanksgiving
<slomo> what about 4 partitions then? swap, root, home and rescue? where rescue reinstalls a default system when everything is broken ;P
<Kyral> Grandma's Cooking > ALL!
<Kyral> There is only one concept I like in XP
<Kyral> and its the System Restore
<Kyral> we need to create something like that for Linux
<Kyral> the ability to rollback to a previous config
<slomo> we already have this... it's called (incremental) backup ;P
<Kyral> but in an easy to use thingy
<Kyral> have it run as a daemon, making checkpoints every week or so, then when the bad stuff happens be able to restore to a checkpoint with one command or click
<kiko-afk> ajmitch, how's NZ? missing the laptop?
<ajmitch> NZ is nice, and yeah, I am
<ajmitch> good to be back home, shame about having to be back at work
<ajmitch> are you still on vacation there?
<kiko-afk> hey, work is never a shame, or shouldn't be
<kiko-afk> no, back in the office as well
<kiko-afk> and just as well I am, because I am no good at vacation!
<slomo> Kyral: daemon? why not a cronjob?
<Kyral> good point
<Kyral> I haven't gotten the hang of Cron yet :P
<Kyral> I can't get any of my user jobs in the crontab to execute
<slomo> hi tseng_ :)
<tseng_> your user crontab?
<Kyral> yah
<tseng_> oh yes
<Kyral> nor in my root one for that matter
<tseng_> dont you need to be in the cron group?
<Kyral> dunno
<tseng_> or was that some other distro
<Kyral> I'm not too versed in Cron :D
<tseng_> we have a crontab group
<tseng_> try joining it and logging in again
<ajmitch> we do? interesting
<tseng_> maybe i am making things up
<ajmitch> cron works for me without that group
<Kyral> well, it might explain my neither my root or user crontabs work
<tseng_> hi slomo
<tseng_> have you checked your logfiles?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> the normal system cronjobs in /etc/cron.daily and whatnot run
<Kyral> but not the ones I plant
<tseng_> thats entirely different
<Kyral> All I want to do is set it so I don't have to remember to update my PBuilders
<tseng_> cant you put a hook in the pbuilder to update at the start of every build?
<tseng_> the buildds do that on sbuild
<Kyral> I dunno
<Kyral> I don't know much about pbuilder
<Kyral> except how to use it and how to manage multiple ones
<tseng_> --hookdir [location of user scripts] 
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> in the pbuilderrc?
<tseng_>               D<digit><digit><whatever-else-you-want>   is   executed   before              unpacking  the  source  inside  the chroot, after setting up the              chroot environment.
<tseng_> read the manpage
<juliux> dholbach, ping
<dholbach> juliux: i saw the query
<tseng_> dholbach: !
<juliux> dholbach, but \sh means i should it do here
* ajmitch used to have an update hook in pbuilder, but it caused builds to break when apt-proxy decided to go stupid
<dholbach> hey tseng  :))
<juliux> dholbach, i tried to build gnome bluetooth control remote
<dholbach> juliux: control remote?
<juliux> dholbach, http://chileforge.cl/docman/view.php/76/145/gbtcr.html
<juliux> dholbach, there you should use gnome-autogen.sh
<juliux> dholbach, the problem is that there is no config.status and so make failed
<dholbach> really? doesnt it come with a configure script and Makefile.in already?
<juliux> dholbach, no
<dholbach> config.status is a generated file
<dholbach> gnome-common contains   gnome-autogen.sh
<dholbach> you can try running it
<dholbach> and tell upstream to provide a proper tarball :)
<juliux> dholbach, gnome-autogen.sh runs with no problems
<\sh> i'm changing laptops...brb
<juliux> dholbach, but than there is no config.status and make failed
<dholbach> paste me the output of ./configure && make in a query
<ajmitch> don't remind me about laptops :)
<tseng_> damn, i need to update my wiki page
<juliux> dholbach, without running gnome-autogen.sh there is no configure
<dholbach> then after it
<juliux> ok
<slomo> juliux: so you have 2 options... run g-a.sh at build-time or make a patch with all generated files... the first one is probably cleaner but you have to be careful with build-depends on the correct automake version etc
<juliux> slomo, ok, but i am not an developer
<dholbach> and additionally, talk to upstream about providing a proper tarball :)
<dholbach> usually a  ./autogen.sh && make dist    should provide them with the release tarball
<juliux> i have a dinner now
<rbelem> hey slomo
<slomo> hi rbelem :)
<rbelem> slomo: did you see that mail about ardour?
<slomo> rbelem: ardour? no... the last one was your mail about gtkcairo... hmm, send it again :)
<rbelem> slomo: ok... i'll send it now
<rbelem> slomo: done
<slomo> rbelem: thanks... i'll read it later :)
<\sh> rbelem: ardour is missing to build on amd64 or ppc i think
<rbelem> \sh: the upstream maintainer says that ardour at ubuntu is very unstable
<\sh> rbelem: ardour maintainer should fix build issues on amd64 and ppc :)
<\sh> rbelem: seriously...I merged it the other day..and I have it on my list to fix
<\sh> .oO(when I know what its doing)
<rbelem> ehehe
<rbelem> \sh: do you want to read the upstream mail?
<\sh> rbelem: send it to sh@sourcecode.de
<ajmitch> ok, I have passport in hand, what country should I visit? ;)
<rbelem> \sh: done
<rbelem> ajmitch: Brazil, Amazonas ;-)
<rbelem> ajmitch: visit the rain forest
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> it would be fun, I'm sure
<ajmitch> but I have to go to work now
<rbelem> ehehehe
<rbelem> Mark and kiko was here in august
<ogra> rbelem, so youre on the pictures ?
<ajmitch> bbiab
<rbelem> ogra: yes ;-)
<rbelem> ogra: i'll send one link
<ogra> yay
<sivang> rbelem: on their brazil sprint?
<rbelem> http://www.comunidadesol.org/gallery/mark
<rbelem> http://www.comunidadesol.org/gallery/mark/dsc02976
<rbelem> sivang: yes ;-)
<ogra> rbelem, cool pic :)
<rbelem> this other is pretty cool http://www.comunidadesol.org/gallery/mark/dsc02992
<sivang> rbelem: I didn't know they were also touring there, I thought they went just for working :)
<ogra> rbelem, but there's no rbelem in the second pic
<rbelem> ogra: i'm little afraid water
<rbelem> ehehehee
<ogra> hhe
<rbelem> they jump from the top of the boat
<herve> hello
<\sh> brb grabbing my clothes from the wasching machine...
<rbelem> sivang: he have some meetings with indt, and another companies at saturday
<sivang> rbelem: that photos seem like  a small ubuntu conf :)
<sivang> rbelem: you're working in async?
<rbelem> sivang: no, async is far away from here and kiko didn't call me to work there ;-)
<ogra> rbelem, did you ask ?
<rbelem> sivang: a ubuntu conf here could be very cool ;-)
<rbelem> ogra: not yet ehehehe
<sivang> rbelem: well, this is what I am saying - this looks like a midsize ubuntu conf if to judge by number of participants :)
<ogra> the "deutshce bank" didnt call me to be their boss yet
<ogra> *deutsch bank
<rbelem> ehehhehe
<rbelem> kiko-afk is afk :/
<ogra> he'll read the backlog
<ogra> :)
<kiko-afk> ME?
<tseng_> if you send him an email he can send you a top posted reply
<tseng_> he is that good.
<ogra> lol
<ajmitch> kiko-afk: yes you
<rbelem> ehehehee
* tseng_ was hoping for the other kiko
* ajmitch would love to work for async, but it's a long flight ;)
<tseng_> the one that doesnt look like dave grohl
<ogra> ajmitch, yes, you'd have to get up early
<kiko-afk> what other kiko?
<kiko-afk> there is only one top-postin kiko I know
<rbelem> hey kiko... how are you?
<kiko> I could be a lot worse
<kiko> but I did crack a helmet on sunday morning
<ajmitch> ogra: I'd have to sleep on the plane
<tseng_> you could only work half the week
<ajmitch> and twice as hard?
<ogra> heh
<tseng_> i guess you could work on the plane
<tseng_> since bzr is diconected
<ajmitch> if I had some real good batteries or power outlets on the plane
<tseng_> i am thinking of swapping my cdrom for another battery
<tseng_> more useful
<rbelem> kiko: how this happened?
* ajmitch would also have to become a legendary zope hacker
<rbelem> ehehehe
<\sh> re
<jpatrick> hi \sh
<ajmitch> hello \sh
<sivang> hey \sh
<tseng_> they should switch to django
<tseng_> and lay off the crack
* tseng_ hides somewhere behind ajmitch 
<kiko> rbelem, a crash at a race
<rbelem> kiko: kart?
<kiko> rbelem, mountain biking?
<Kyral> Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone (if you celebrate it)
<Kyral> cya on Sunday
<LaserJock> cya Kyral  and happy Thanksgiving
<\sh> rbelem: ping
<\sh> rbelem: this guy didn't write anything what is happening...the mail is somehow useless
<rbelem> kiko: cool
<sivang> kiko: you should have tried mountain biking mount royal :) parts of it looked suitable for an extreme rider
<kiko> sivang, I did mountain bike it almost every other day
<kiko> I had a bike rented in montreal
<rbelem> \sh: i send question about how errors happen, but no reply
<\sh> rbelem: better is, that he files bugreports :)
<rbelem> \sh: but the guy that wrote this is the upstream maintainer
<\sh> rbelem: thats why...he is the best man for this task..he can say what is wrong and what not...what is missing etc.
<rbelem> \sh: i'll contact him to ask what's wrong
<rbelem> or is better you contact?
<\sh> rbelem: cool...ask him if he has time to come around here :)
<rbelem> cool
<Amaranth> is there another C++ transition going on or something?
<dholbach> a smaller one, yes
<ajmitch> one done at the same time as debian
<Amaranth> yeah, i figured that when libstdc++6 was getting upgraded and OO.o was getting removed
<Amaranth> damn, i guess i won't be upgrading my home machine to dapper this weekend :/
<ajmitch> so we shouldn't have to do much assuming that debian maintainers keep on top of things ;)
* ajmitch is upgrading to dapper as we speak
<\sh> u won't have fun
<\sh> debhelper is unmet dep on gcc-4.0-base (as last in the chain)
<\sh> dholbach: btw..we can't start yet with the rebuilding, renaming
<dholbach> \sh: preparing, but that's all
<\sh> jepp
<\sh> actually i need debhelper again :) good that i had an old dapper chroot
<ajmitch> sigh, I broke my dapper pbuilder here now with that problem
<slomo> ajmitch: same here :) everything's broken here ;)
* ajmitch looks for someone to blame ;)
<dholbach> any pythoneers enjoying to review kiko's kiwi on revu? :)
<slomo> dholbach: sure, but i can't testbuild it in pbuilder currently ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach: sure :)
<dholbach> haha :)
<dholbach> me neither :-p
<ajmitch> with a name like that..
<dholbach> as long as the buildds build it ;)
<slomo> i like kiwis ;)
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> dholbach: why separate build-depends & -indep there?
<ajmitch> and why only >> 4.1.0 for debhelper?
<ajmitch> since you need 4.2.28 for py 2.4, iirc
<dholbach> seb told me that debhelper was required to be build-depends per policy
<dholbach> and not indep
<dholbach> will update to 4.2.28
<ajmitch> right
<slomo> dholbach: doesn't lintian warn you about build-depends on all-packages?
<dholbach> done, will upload the bunch of fixed mistakes you find
<dholbach> slomo: no
* ajmitch is going from memory :)
<dholbach> it's fine with lintian
<slomo> dholbach: ok...
<ajmitch> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/12/msg01743.html
<dholbach> ajmitch: that was in 2003 :-p
* dholbach has a look
<ajmitch> can't use dh_clean if debhelper is only in build-depends-indep
<dholbach> cool
<slomo> dholbach: maybe add something to the short description in the -examples pacakge that this  package contains the examples... '(examples)' or something
<dholbach> err
* ajmitch also dislikes find . -name '*.pyc' | xargs rm -f
<ajmitch>  ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch: i talked to upstream :)
<dholbach> slomo:
<dholbach> + This package installs some examples to
<dholbach> + /usr/share/doc/kiwi-examples
<dholbach> ajmitch: they'll fix it (with some other things for the next release)
<ajmitch> dholbach: but that's because I just like picking at things
<dholbach> ajmitch: no, i don't like it either
<ajmitch> dholbach: hopefully upstream is nice & responsive :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: it's kiko and jdahlin :)
<dholbach>  ajmitch i considered it a 'quickfix'
<ajmitch> I know
<slomo> dholbach: in the short description :) but that's personal preference... keep it only in the long description if you want :)
<dholbach> slomo: oh yeah, right - will fix that
<ajmitch> dholbach: sure, and I have similar in my packages
<kiko> ajmitch, be kind to little kiwi
<ajmitch> kiko: I'm from NZ, I have to be kind to kiwis
<ajmitch> dholbach: why simple-patchsys?
<ajmitch> dholbach: since you have no patches..
<dholbach> ajmitch: i tried patching something, i generally keep it in there, else i add it, remove it, add it, remove it, add it for every release ;)
<slomo> ajmitch: maybe for the future... to show others how you would like to get patches applied... but it doesn't hurt anyway ;)
<dholbach> but i can chuck it out
<dholbach> (if it's a matter of approving ;))
<ajmitch> dholbach: I'd probably approve without it
<herve> dholbach, I like the irony of the situation
<herve> it's your turn :-p
<dholbach> herve: am i really that bad? :)
<ajmitch> it's just hard for me to build & test this at the moment
<ajmitch> herve: hah, dholbach asks for this sort of review
<dholbach> siretart: could you test-build kiwi?
<herve> dholbach, no you just made quite the same mistakes as mine :-)
<dholbach> siretart: could you revu-build kiwi?
<dholbach> herve: haha :)
<herve> ajmitch, I'd lke such one too ;-)
<dholbach> herve: or better say 'ah ah' :)
<herve> muhahahaha!!
<slomo> dholbach: you missed one copyright... kiwi/tasklet.py isn't copyright by async but "Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro"
<ajmitch> herve: I'm not that good at reviewing, I just pick up on some things
<dholbach> slomo: right
<herve> ajmitch, yes, that's what I call the third eye
<lfittl> Could somebody do a quick review of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1004?
<dholbach> slomo: thanks
<slomo> dholbach: and copyright holder for the other stuff seems to be the whole asyncs, not only one person... don't know if this matters ;)
<slomo> np
<dholbach> hm, dunno either, to be honest
<ajmitch> dholbach: mercilessly bug upstream
<slomo> dholbach: Christian Reis is maintainer/upstream author but not the copyright holder imho
<herve> lfittl, you raised a nice revu bug ;-)
<lfittl> herve: ? :)
<lfittl> nice :)
<dholbach> slomo: i'm happy to list the whole bunch of them :)
<slomo> dholbach: ok, then i would list async and gustavo as copyright holders and the whole crew as authors (or only christian as the maintainer?)... but better ask ajmitch for a second oppinion :)
<ajmitch> slomo: I'd ask kiko
<sivang> talking about kiwi I suppose?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> hello doko_
<kiko> slomo?
<sivang> kiko: what is Stoq ?
<kiko> sivang, it's a system we've been developing for some 4 years now
<kiko> business management
<slomo> kiko: we were reviewing the kiwi package... who should be listed as copyright holder? async and "Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro" or all members of async and gustavo? do you want all authors/contributors listed or only christian reis as the maintainer?
<sivang> kiko: the page is in brazillian portugeese :)
<sivang> kiko: that's why IU'm asking. Seems like some sort of inventory management system or so?
<kiko> sivang, inventory, storefront/point-of-sales, purchasing, etc
<kiko> but that's pretty much what it is
<kiko> we need to redo that website
<kiko> it's so 1980s
<sivang> kiko: yeah :)
<kiko> slomo, jdahlin is the current maintainer. as for copyright, I assume the copyright is async, though I don't think gjc or lgs formally handed over the copyright, I could ask them to
<slomo> kiko: in the headers of the files only async and gustavo are listed as copyright holders... when this is correct those two are to be listed imho
<kiko> slomo, jdahlin tells me that it's correct, that it's both gjc and async, so fine.
<dholbach> changed it
<dholbach> and uploaded it revu again
<slomo> kiko: ok, do you want all authors/contributors listed? or only christian as upstream author?
<sivang> kiko: kiwi supposed to be easier then directly using pygtk ?
<kiko> sivang, a lot easier!
<dholbach> slomo: i have a note in there, telling that the full list of contributors is in AUTHORS, which should be fine
<kiko> slomo, christian is me, for the record. I think it would be nice if all authors were listed, given that lorenzo did most of the porting to pygtk2 and jdahlin maintains it now
<sivang> kiko: seems like I am going to use it for home-user-backup :)
<slomo> kiko: oh sorry
<kiko> slomo, nothing to be sorry for -- I really appreciate your review
<kiko> I'm just typing like mad in 12 channels
<slomo> dholbach: ok, then you got my vote when the generated binary packages are fine which i can't test currently :/
<sivang> one of them. in spanish :)
<dholbach> slomo: build them with debuild, do it like a man :)
<slomo> dholbach: i like dpkg-buildpackage ;) but ok, will do
<sivang> slomo: so we are going to have kiwi in dapper soon?
<slomo> dholbach: hm, doesn't -examples need kiwi itself?
<kiko> it does.
<dholbach> not if you look at them :)
<dholbach> i just don't want circular dependencies
<slomo> hm, my kiwi package is empty except /usr/share/doc
<dholbach> oh nice
<herve> I like the idea of installing the examples without the whole family
<herve> if you just want to take a look
<herve> a recommends is enough to me
<kiko> at the code?
<herve> yes, see what kiwi code looks like
<kiko> sure, why not.
<sivang> herve: but you need to have the kiwi for running the examples no?
<lifeless> kiwi ?
<herve> sivang, yes, so the "recommends"
<herve> it's better with but not mandatory
<sivang> herve: ah ok, cool
<dholbach> got that
<dholbach> slomo: i will look at the empty package in a bit, need to do a break
<slomo> dholbach: sure, np :)
<slomo> hm, maybe i should build firefox and epiphany in my running system to get back a working epiphany...
<bur[n] er> has anyoen tried usign gnome-torrent?  http://www.amedias.org/~koke/gnome-torrent/  I made a .deb http://burner.ath.cx/debs/gnome-torrent_0.2-1_i386.deb but for some reason, this app won't download.  Not sure if it's just premature or me.
<bur[n] er> I just wanted to add that .deb is nothing special, just a checkinstall quick thing
<ogra> bur[n] er, koke is motu, i guess he knows why he didntpackage it yet
<bur[n] er> awww :)  I figured that was an ubuntu person with the screenshots & site color scheme ;)
<bur[n] er> thanks ogra
<ogra> but poke him if he's around, he probably dropped development on it
<bur[n] er> i hope he didn't!  it's my one hope to take me away from ktorrent
<sivang> kiko-afk: still here?
<sivang> kiko-afk: I tried to use kiwi's latest source release (in a arball) the person example doesn't work, I can't seen to import Proxies, FrameWork etc
* sivang notes he should probably have used HEAD
<lifeless> what is kiwi ?
<ogra> lifeless, they provide it in arballs :)
<lifeless> nono, what *is* kiwi
<ogra> dunno :)
<ogra> but sivang will
<Amaranth> it's a MVC framework thing you use with pygtk
<dirkvdbroek> Hello, I would like to add a package to ubuntu multiverse
<Amaranth> dirkvdbroek: what package?
<dirkvdbroek> veejay.dyne.org
<dirkvdbroek> It is a veejay tool
<dirkvdbroek> currently most development is in cvs
<dirkvdbroek> however we are stable
<ogra> dirkvdbroek, why multiverse ?
<dirkvdbroek> current snapshot is stable enough to be released to a wider audience
<dirkvdbroek> I thought multiverse was sort of the 'playground' ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> multiverse is for non-free stuff
<Amaranth> multiverse is legally questionable universe stuff
<dirkvdbroek> Ok, well we do use ffmpeg
<ogra> do youinclude it ?
<dirkvdbroek> yes
<ogra> ouch
<dirkvdbroek> it does not install it
<ogra> can you dynamically link to ours
<ogra> ?
<dirkvdbroek> hm...
<dirkvdbroek> Let me check with our 'main guy' since I'm merely packager and chief tester
<dirkvdbroek> :)(
<ogra> if you could use ffmpeg dynamically, it wouldnt have to go to multiverse .... and code duplication in source packages is a big nono
<dirkvdbroek> well, technically we did not include ffmpeg in the source package, rather we have a script that downloads cvs
<dirkvdbroek> this is why we want to release binary packages
<dirkvdbroek> since 'current' is 'stable'
<ogra> eek... dont do such things in deb packages
<ogra> (downloading from the web)
<dirkvdbroek> yes, well, it works, and it's not your average desktop application
<dirkvdbroek> I guess the most powerfull video processor out there tho
<dirkvdbroek> basically a veejay tool but also a tool that we ( as a group of artists) have been succesfully applying on multiple stage performances
<dirkvdbroek> anyhow,
<dirkvdbroek> I was wondering if it were possible to release somewhere so some of your users can use synaptic to update veejay.
<dirkvdbroek> until now, it have always been 'alien' .deb packages loosely distributed from some website
<dirkvdbroek> I like the effort of ubuntu, trying to get stuff done in one place and all,
<dirkvdbroek> this is why I took the efford of getting a version ready for ubuntu
<dholbach> anybody who wanted to become ubuntu member and is not in #ubuntu-meeting?
<ogra> dirkvdbroek, sorry, i'm in a meeting now in #ubuntu-meeting ...
<dirkvdbroek> ok
<crimsun> it's interesting to note the concentration of european members versus north american members
<crimsun> sistpoty: thanks for the hugs98 merge yesterday
<sistpoty> hi
<sistpoty> np
<crimsun> (I use it during lecture)
<sistpoty> hehe, so did I last term
<Amaranth> whoops, gotta go
<crimsun> d'oh, minghua's not here.
* crimsun reads vorlon's d-d-a announcement regarding libfreetype6
<LaserJock> hmm, what's the difference between breezy-updates and breezy-security? Doesn't it pretty much take something critical like a  security problem to get something into updates?
<crimsun> no
<ajmitch> no, they're separate for a reason
<crimsun> case in point would be sabayon
<ajmitch> security is just for security, it has its special approval queue
<LaserJock> what would it take to get into updates then? I guess wiping out your system or something like that
<kiko-afk> sivang, that's interesting. can you give me further details? a traceback?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-20
<chantra> LaserJock: maybe an entry like "modifying and rebuilding a package"
<chantra> cd packages/
<chantra> do modifications
<chantra> debuild -sa -S
<chantra> cd ..
<chantra> sudo pbuild....
<pygi> chantra: that's source packages ^_^
<chantra> just under rebuilding a package
<LaserJock> chantra: yeah, the approach so far in the packaging guide has been for indepth packaging
<chantra> pygi: oright, sorry for using the wrong terms :)
<LaserJock> it would be good to add an little section for people who just want/need to tweak an existing source package
<LaserJock> I believe I have that on my todo list
<chantra> LaserJock: :)
<pygi> LaserJock: that shouldn't be too hard to do
<pygi> (to write)
<chantra> todo list tends to get longer and longer :)
<chantra> pygi: hard nope, long yeah :p
<chantra> okie, gtg, girlfriend coming back :D
<LaserJock> yeah, check out the braindump section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide
* chantra believe it is hard to combine both relationship and geekish activity :)
<LaserJock> mhm
<chantra> LaserJock: :)))
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<minghua> hello LaserJock, fixing universe? :-)
<secretlondon> lets hope so!
<pygi> hey minghua ^_^
<LaserJock> sadly no
<gnomefreak> whos in charge of packages.ubuntu.com?
<LaserJock> I can't make much of a dent
<gnomefreak> its down
<secretlondon> gnomefreak: has been for a few hours now
<pygi> minghua: we should have seen that before we uploaded yesterday :P
<LaserJock> somebody, can't remember the name
<gnomefreak> secretlondon: im just finding out about it :(
* LaserJock doesn't use packages.ubuntu.com
<minghua> pygi: see what?  the mistake in brasero?
<pygi> minghua: indeed :)
<minghua> yes we should
<pygi> next time, more extra care =)
<pygi> tho package is otherwise very good now
<minghua> what are you guys using packages.u.c for?  looking for particular files?  LP seems good enough for finding package versions to me
<secretlondon> I use it to find changelogs
<secretlondon> as it splits them out
<minghua> pygi: regarding the brasero and beagle issue, is it possible to separate the search function out as a plug-in type of thing?
<gnomefreak> minghua: not for someone thats really new to ubuntu its not and thats how i found out it was down. i dont use p.u.c often
<pygi> minghua: right now, not really, and I'll probably keep beagle disabled this version of brasero.
<pygi> minghua: for next release, we'lll be able to do it probably
<minghua> pygi: I see
<pygi> minghua: but that will be provisional solution, we plan to do some abstraction layer for both burning and search facilities
<LaserJock> secretlondon: changelogs.ubuntu.com
<minghua> gnomefreak: you mean LP is not good enough for people new to ubuntu?
<pygi> that will take some time tho
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, I was thinking that changelogs are kept somewhere
<gnomefreak> minghua: i dont think its easy enough to navigate for new users
<minghua> gnomefreak: agreed
<secretlondon> LaserJock: i had no idea that existed
<secretlondon> lp is really badly designed
<LaserJock> why?
<minghua> pygi: abstraction layer would be nicest, of course
* secretlondon reckons lp shows what's wrong with closed-source software
<pygi> minghua: right, but requires some work you know ^_^
<pygi> secretlondon: agreed=)
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: the layout mainly IMHO its not really easy to find what your looking for right away
<secretlondon> most of the awful bugs would be fixed by now if we had the source..
<LaserJock> secretlondon: I'm not convinced, but perhaps
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: it can be at times, in other ways it's really easy
* minghua is not convinced either
<secretlondon> it takes multiple page loads to do anything, things don't behave the way you'd expect
<minghua> you may fix the bugs you know, but you may introduce others in the mean time
<secretlondon> i mainly use malone, it may depend on which bits oyu use
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: agreed most of time i cna find what im looking for without issues but for me to tell someone that is new to linux or ubuntu look azt launchpad.com under packages for ubuntu its right there.
<gnomefreak> but its never right there
<gnomefreak> s/azt/at
<LaserJock> yeah, it's much better as a resource to be linked to
<LaserJock> the URL navigation is quite cool
<LaserJock> I hardly ever have to click on anything
<LaserJock> I just "build" the URL I want to go to
<LaserJock> minghua: woot, I got the lists (mdt and bugs) as a cron job on tiber
<minghua> LaserJock: very nice.  thanks!
<LaserJock> minghua: I also updated MOTU/Teams/Science with the list urls and some other things
<minghua> good, good.  we need more people working on bugs though
* secretlondon nods at minghua
<minghua> unfortunately most bugs in science packages are not easy to fix
<secretlondon> we have quite a few universe packaging, sync things to do
<LaserJock> yes, well most people want to do feature requests and complain about the lack of stability
<secretlondon> LaserJock: thats always the way, the want new shiny
<LaserJock> and bug free :-)
<secretlondon> of course :)
<secretlondon> #72437 is a dependency bug for a bored motu
<minghua> bug 72437
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72437 in dak "Dak build-depends on python2.3-dev, superseded by python2.4-dev" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72437
<minghua> why does any ubuntu user want to install dak?
* secretlondon shrugs.
<LaserJock> minghua: they do darn it, don't question the users! ;-)
<secretlondon> because it's there, because they don't read instructions..
* minghua goes back to his corner
<LaserJock> hmm, freeflying filed that
<LaserJock> I wonder if he was *gasp* going to use it
<secretlondon> well it's broken regadless..
<minghua> ask yourself when he is online?
<kkubasik> hey, any MOTU here have a sec to look over a package?
<LaserJock> kkubasik: heh, do you really one 1 second of review?
* minghua prefers a dependency broken package than a package with correct dependency but doesn't work (because nobody tested it)
<LaserJock> ;-)
<kkubasik> heheh
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3422
<kkubasik> if someone has maybe more than a second or 2 ;)
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3490
<kkubasik> is anotherone for anyone who wants to be that cool
<secretlondon> kkubasik: oh no-ones cool ;)
<kkubasik> hehe, well in that case, I guess im just that cool
<kkubasik> ;)
<minghua> kkubasik: why does the binary package depend on python-gtk2 (>= 2.8) but the build dependency of python-gtk2-dev is not versioned?
<kkubasik> hmm, I guess I only noticed it for the runtime
<minghua> kkubasik: also your package description has whitespace wrong
<minghua> you want one space at the beginning of the line, not two spaces
<kkubasik> alright
* ajmitch returns to the realm of motu
<minghua> hello ajmitch
<ajmitch> so that I can sit at the feet of many & learn
<ajmitch> hi minghua
<kkubasik> minghua: pbuilding the test now :)
<metres> how do i kill a program that didnt response ?
<metres> a game name stax ...
<minghua> kkubasik: I doubt those two changes would affect the buildability in anyway.  But of course it never hurts to test
<LaserJock> kkubasik: also I think you need to add a binary-arch: rule back in
<minghua> metres: please go to #ubuntu for support, thanks
<kkubasik> LaserJock: alright, will do
<LaserJock> kkubasik: also, debhelper should be in Build-Depends:
<LaserJock> :-)
<metres> ok thanks
<minghua> Interesting.  After I renamed my home directory, firefox gets unhappy and doesn't want to load extensions
<kkubasik> do I really do binary-arch for python?
<kkubasik> I though deb policy was exclusivly python packages do everything in binary-indep
<kkubasik> im not complaining, im just trying to figure it all out
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> it will be empty
<LaserJock> but Debian Policy requires it to be there
<kkubasik> LaserJock: alright, sounds cool
<kkubasik> added it back, checking the build again
<LaserJock> minghua: you gonna upload that xdrawchem fix?
<minghua> LaserJock: I can't reproduce it, I won't upload it unless upstream acknowledge the patch
<LaserJock> minghua: makes sense, kinda stinks that the 2 MOTUs that looked at it weren't able to reproduce
<minghua> LaserJock: (or I read the code and confirm the patch is good, which I probably won't do)
<kkubasik> any chance I can get anyone to take a peek at this upload as well
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3490
<kkubasik> its newer, and significantly cleaner
<joejaxx> who packages the kernels for ubuntu?
<zul> BenC or the kernel team
<joejaxx> oh ok thanks :)
<minghua> there is a #ubuntu-kernel channel
<joejaxx> thanks
<joejaxx> this conversation should be quite interesting
<zul> of course they are probably mostly recovering from SF/UDS
<LaserJock> kkubasik: doh, I totally missed with both packages, your versioning is wrong
<kkubasik> ?
<LaserJock> kkubasik: they should be <upstreamversion>-0ubuntu1 if they aren't in debian
<kkubasik> how exactly do I fix that, without messing a lot of stuff up?
<minghua> LaserJock: nice catch
<LaserJock> joejaxx: interesting? you aren't going to go heckle the kernel guys are you?
<LaserJock> kkubasik: change it in the changelog and control file
<joejaxx> LaserJock: not heckle just ask legitimate questions :)
<LaserJock> or wait, not the control file
<LaserJock> just the changelog
<LaserJock> joejaxx: suuure ;-)
* ajmitch wonders what 'legitimate questions' joejaxx has
<joejaxx> LOl
<zul> LaserJock: we would just back door his kenerl anyways
<joejaxx> back door? lol
<ajmitch> hello zul
<zul> hey ajmitch how is it going?
<LaserJock> zul: just make sure it's joejaxx specific please :-)
<minghua> Urgh.  It seems hopeless to fix this firefox extension thing
<ajmitch> good, how are you?
<zul> good a lot better
<joejaxx> well it is not actually about anything going into ubuntu
<ajmitch> I'm glad
<ajmitch> now you can get back to fixing xen :)
<zul> LaserJock: if(joejaxx == annoying) kill()
<joejaxx> unless ubuntu wants it but i doubt it
<zul> ajmitch: yeah yeah :)
<zul> already updating 2.6.17 :P
<zul> if only copy and pasted worked
<joejaxx> zul: is packaging a kernel a difficult task?
* ajmitch can test another amd64 kernel tonight if needed
<zul> not really i did it for edgy
<zul> ajmitch: just kind of started but ill let you know
<joejaxx> zul: oh
<joejaxx> oh ok
<ajmitch> alright
* LaserJock runs off to package the -LJ sources
* ajmitch is wanting to keep vmware around for now anyway, windows is too useful for some things
<LaserJock> my kernel just boots to a prompt and says "Gets some sharks... with frikin' laser beams on their heads"
<zul> heh..
<joejaxx> LaserJock: LOL that is funny
<joejaxx> zul: have you all started packing 19 yet?
<ajmitch> joejaxx: it's been in feisty for weeks
<zul> LaserJock: the netwinder had a .wav file going "Welcome to Netwinder" do the same
<kkubasik> alright, updated packages are in revu now
<joejaxx> ajmitch: really?
* joejaxx sources
<joejaxx> LOL
<ajmitch> joejaxx: sure, i was running it at UDS
<joejaxx> ajmitch: nice thanks :)
<ajmitch> 2.6.19 doesn't yet work with xen, but that's only a matter of time & nagging
* joejaxx plots >:)
<zul> ajmitch: uh....yeah...
<ajmitch> not that I ever would
<zul>  /ignore ajmitch ALL
<zul> damn space ;)
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> naughty zul
<joejaxx> ajmitch: does ubuntu only support kernel upstream and thatis it?
<ajmitch> joejaxx: explain
<joejaxx> ajmitch: like only the things supported in the original source of kernel releases ie no patching
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> see the kernel info on the wiki
<bhale> we patch things to fix bugs or add drivers
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> interesting
<bhale> not Con Kolivias' weekend hackfest
<joejaxx> hmmm
<bhale> or whatever else the kids are into these days
<kkubasik> LaserJock: both are in revu if you wanna check my changes
<LaserJock> kkubasik: working on it
<joejaxx> ajmitch: am i allowed to talk in #u-k?
<kkubasik> bhale: hey, I've been meaning to ask you, what's the approx time table for getting the latests beagle packaged in feisty?
<bhale> kkubasik: whenever I do it
<bhale> there is no schedule
<bhale> feisty is barely getting started
<ajmitch> joejaxx: why are you asking me if you're allowed to talk?
<joejaxx> just wondering
<joejaxx> maybe it is like #u-d
<zul> er...gentoo-dev?
<joejaxx> no
<joejaxx> ubuntu-devel
<kkubasik> bhale: I know, no super pressure or anything
<kkubasik> I was just gonna look into backporting it
<zul> joejaxx: you are allowed to talk only if we like you
<kkubasik> more for learing sakes, but yeah
<bhale> kkubasik: new evo-sharp isnt packaged on debian yet, i heard it doesnt even build
<joejaxx> zul: ok
<zul> joejaxx: i was kidding
<joejaxx> oh ok
<bhale> kkubasik: it is about time for evo 2.9 to break the API anyway
<bhale> kkubasik: i dont know why i bother, evo-sharp is always 6 months behind
<kkubasik> bhale: agreed
<kkubasik> its always a halting effort at best
<LaserJock> bhale: do you do tomboy as well?
<bhale> LaserJock: I guess
<bhale> I used to do everything
<bhale> now slomo does just about everything
<LaserJock> heh
<bhale> he rules.
<LaserJock> yes, yes he does
<ajmitch> now the rest of us just sit back
<bhale> LaserJock: tomboy was the first debian package i did from scratch
<bhale> LaserJock: REVU'd by jdub and seb128
<LaserJock> oh cool
<ajmitch> since then it was hijacked
<LaserJock> did you really use REVU?
<bhale> no :)
<LaserJock> that's what I thought
<joejaxx> haha lol
<LaserJock> kkubasik: your debian/rules files seem overly complicated to me
<kkubasik> I mean, I basically just trimmed out whatever I could from the default dh-make
<kkubasik> that still built
<LaserJock> well, like there is stuff for figuring out the build arch
<LaserJock> but this is arch independent
<LaserJock> you really don't need  install-indep: and binary-common: rules
<freeflying> LaserJock: hi
<LaserJock> hi freeflying, we were talking about the bug you filed on dak
<LaserJock> kkubasik: you don't need dh_strip if there are no binaries to strip
<kkubasik> alight
<freeflying> LaserJock: I see
<LaserJock> kkubasik: also check to see if you really need usr/sbin in debian/dirs
<LaserJock> kkubasik: just nitpicky stuff
<kkubasik> alright
<LaserJock> kkubasik: good looking packages though
<minghua> LaserJock: your packaging guide doesn't recommend using dh_make anymore, does it?
<LaserJock> debian/copright actually has information
<LaserJock> minghua: hmm, not sure
<LaserJock> I personally think dh_make is fine
<kkubasik> minghua: yeah, they still say use dh_make
<minghua> if it's up to me, I'll write "dh_make is unsuitable for real packaging" or something like that
<LaserJock> unsuitable? I would hardly say that
<minghua> LaserJock: we have different opinions, of course
<minghua> and I know my opinion is not popular
<minghua> but still
<LaserJock> your opinions are certainly appreciated
<kkubasik> I agree that dh_make seems a little outdats
<kkubasik> dated* and whatnot
<kkubasik> especially since it has no way to account for any sort of managed code
<LaserJock> but I'm just not sure where the balance is
<kkubasik> yeah, it's a fine line
<LaserJock> on one had it gives outdated and sometimes not quite right info
<LaserJock> on the other hand, it does provide good examples for formatting and pretty much everything but debian/rules
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Did I already ask you when the Feisty dailys start to be built?
<minghua> yes, for a new packager, I would say "run dh_make and see what it gives you, read them and understand what they mean, then start from scratch again"
<kkubasik> ok, those fixes are in REVU
<LaserJock> that's kinda what I do
<LaserJock> I use the files from the actual packages in the end
<LaserJock> in the packaging guide
<kkubasik> I think was really needs to happen is a consolidation of the MOTU wiki pages
<kkubasik> there are lots that are half done/old
<LaserJock> heh
<kkubasik> that either need love or the aze
<kkubasik> axe*
<LaserJock> kkubasik: that is very much a known issue :-)
* minghua wonders if we should put "we are stretched thin" on topic channel and wiki main page :-P
<LaserJock> haha
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Did you see my question?
<LaserJock> _MMA_: oh yeah, sorry. I'm not sure. I'm guessing pretty soon as the Canonical conf is over
<LaserJock> _MMA_: the first Herd cd is due out pretty soon
<_MMA_> Ok. BTW, How are you feeling?
<LaserJock> still crappy
<_MMA_> :(
<LaserJock> getting better
<zul> ah so i have spread my germs internationally
<LaserJock> but then I have to go in to the dentist tomorrow
<ajmitch> well done zul
<LaserJock> zul: my whole lab got sick
<zul> sucky
<LaserJock> minghua: how about a "MOTUs on the edge, might have a mental breakdown at any second, poke at your own risk"
<joejaxx> hmm why is 2.6.19 not accessible in feisty
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sounds accurate
<ajmitch> joejaxx: it is
<joejaxx> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu feisty main
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> uname -r returns
<joejaxx> 17
<ajmitch> that's because you haven't installed 2.6.19
<minghua> LaserJock: sounds better than mine :-)
<crimsun> linux-meta doesn't point to .19
<joejaxx> so it is manual
<joejaxx> ah
<LaserJock> uh oh, crimsun has come out of lurking
<joejaxx> has the powerpc compiled deb been uploaded?
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> you can check on launchpad
<LaserJock> joejaxx: that's what LP is for
<joejaxx> LP?
<LaserJock> Launchpad
<joejaxx> oh
<crimsun>  feisty powerpc   Failed to build
<joejaxx> i actually do not know how to check that
<joejaxx> crimsun: ah ok
<crimsun> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.19/2.6.19-6.7
<minghua> there is always 2.6.19-{1,2,3,4,5} to choose from :-)
<joejaxx> is there a special way you all compile the kernels?
<zul> usually kernel-package
<crimsun> we do a special kernel compile dance.
<ajmitch> & a sprinkling of pixie dust
<joejaxx> i have compiled a kernel before but i am wondering if you all do something special
* joejaxx does the special kernel compile dance
<ajmitch> crimsun also tends to sacrifice a pony while doing so
<joejaxx> hmm that did not help
<joejaxx> but i should be able to download the ubuntu kernel source and compile it right?
<minghua> oh.  so that's where all those ponies went
<LaserJock> :(
* joejaxx just wants to make sure
<zul> yeah we went to ponyville and killed them (http://www.hasbro.com/mylittlepony/)
<joejaxx> Lol
<ajmitch> the streets ran red..
* LaserJock cries
<LaserJock> not the ponies
<joejaxx> lol
<rmjb> http://www.howtoforge.com/kernel_compilation_ubuntu
<kkubasik> LaserJock: with the fixes I committed for labyrinth, is it good to go in?
<LaserJock> working on it
<LaserJock> building the .deb
<fernando> hi all
<kkubasik> LaserJock: sounds cool
<Burgundavia> rmjb: oh joy. Because vanilla is so much better
<rmjb> oh... shoot, I didn't actually read the article, just saw it on digg a while back
<LaserJock> I much prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla
<metres> I have a problem with debuild, my secret key doesnt available and I dont know why because I have one...
<secretlondon> fudge
<rmjb> metres: there's a bug in debuild, if you have the "use agent" option in your gpg.conf file it fails
<rmjb> comment out or remove that option from .gnupg/gpg.conf and try the command again
<LaserJock> kkubasik: labyrinth isn't using the new python policy
<LaserJock> correctly at least
<metres> the only line which is uncomment in my gnu.gpg  is the one for the keyserver...
<rmjb> comment or remove the "use-agent" line
<rmjb> oh wait, I just understood what you said
<rmjb> what's the error message you get?
<kkubasik> LaserJock: alright, let me dig up some literature
<metres> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<metres>  signfile epdfview_0.1.5-1.dsc Daniel Sauv <metres@sympatico.ca>
<metres> gpg:  Daniel Sauv <metres@sympatico.ca>  a t ignor: la cl secrte n'est pas disponible
<metres> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: la cl secrte n'est pas disponible
<metres> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<rmjb> metres: you don't get a prompt for your key at any time?
<metres> no I add export GPGKEY=EF2FC4CC to my .bashrc
<LaserJock> kkubasik: have you seen http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy ?
<kkubasik> no, but that looks like what im looking for
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<secretlondon> Hobbsee!
<LaserJock> Hobbsee!!!
<metres> I use this key to sign the code of conduct so it should be a good key !?
<LaserJock> metres: try adding -kEF2FC4CC to the end of your debuild line
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch, secretlondon!
<Hobbsee> LaserJockWWW
<fernando> metres: debuild -S -sa -kEF2FC4CC
<fernando> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey fernando
<metres> It worked :) thanks
<fernando> metres: you're welcome
<theCore> oh, another Qubecois :)
<metres> salut thecore
<theCore> metres, bonjour
<theCore> does debsign can use a gnupg agent?
<theCore> or it still need to have the key explicitly specified?
<Toadstool> hey everybody
<fernando> hi Toadstool
<metres> hey Toadstool
<secretlondon> hi toadstool
<Toadstool> hey fernando metres & secretlondon
<everybody> hey Toadstool
<metres> good one rmjb
<Toadstool> :)
<Hobbsee> hey Toadstool metres
<Hobbsee> * Mez
<Hobbsee> theCore: still needs a key specified, i think
<Mez> hey hobsee, watching anime
<theCore> Hobbsee, is it assigned to a bug?
<Hobbsee> theCore: no idea.  not sure if it is a bug, actually.  iirc, it will default to the key of whoever signed the debian/changelog.
<theCore> oh ok
<theCore> thanks for the info Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> it may need to be specified in ~/.bashrc too.  i dont remember
<metres> I think I am ready trying my first real package... anyone got something to be tested ?
<LaserJock> Question: is Java arch dependent or arch independent?
<rmjb> metres: there's a whole page of user submitted candidates here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<metres> thanks
<minghua> LaserJock: in Debian they are definitely arch-dependent
<minghua> gcj compiles to machine code
<rmjb> minghua: if using javac instead of gcj?
<minghua> javac is an alternative link in Debian, IIRC
<rmjb> is it mandatory to have a javac version and a gcj version of each java package then?
<LaserJock> rmjb: you said rhino and azureus are Architecture:all right?
<rmjb> yep
<rmjb> azureus has an azureus-gcj package though
<rmjb> that is in addition to it's azureus package
<minghua> azureus can't be built by gcj last time I heard about it
<xopher> Allright , I think my wiki-how to is done. How do I publish it ?
<LaserJock> xopher: your what?
<rmjb> actually, a dependency of the azureus-gcj package is the azureus package, so I'm not sure what the relationship is there
<xopher> I made a how to, which Id like to get included to the ubuntu wiki
<LaserJock> xopher: what is the how to about?
<xopher> building an up to date nvidia-glx, in this case which includes 97.42
<LaserJock> hmm, you might want to ask -doc
<xopher> ok, thanks
<minghua> LaserJock: do you thing we should have a separate ubuntu-science-bugs list?
<minghua> LaserJock: I have procmail to put them in different mboxes, but I suppose not everyone do
<minghua> LaserJock: and if I am just a curious user, I'd hate to see those bugmails on ubuntu-science list
<LaserJock> minghua: I agree
<LaserJock> we could ask for an official ubuntu-science ML on lists.ubuntu.com
<minghua> that would be wonderful, too
<LaserJock> we could use the current one for bugs
<LaserJock> being the bug contact on 450+ packages produces more email then seems reasonable to try to also conduct a discussion
<imbrandon> moins all
<secretlondon> hi brandon
<imbrandon> heya secretlondon
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock
<imbrandon> hrm jono's new php book is almost out
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, he's a writing machine
<secretlondon> imbrandon: i may be evil and look to see how many times he mentions it on his blog
<imbrandon> heh , he was telling me it was almost done at UDS
<imbrandon> kinda funny how it came up too , lol
<secretlondon> lol
<imbrandon> we were on our way to dinner , elkbuntu , whiprush , me and jono and Seveas  and a few others, then got lost walking, , as we're walking he ask how i make a living , and i told him, then he's like WOW i just wrote a book about that !! LOL
<imbrandon> heh , so i've been kinda waiting to see what it says :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you make a living?!? amazing ;-)
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, i dont know about the book, but he did release jokosher 0.2 about half an hour ago before he went to bed
<lastnode> imbrandon, Fujtsu said the source packages were in the parent directory of where the .debs were, btw. sorry i didn't see that before.
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: ahh rock on, i'll have to grab it
<imbrandon> lastnode: yea i seen, i just havent got to them yet, i will here in a bit
* imbrandon is just waking up catching up on email and blogs
<lastnode> imbrandon, cool, Fujtsu said that if you're busy, he'll do the upload himself, and not to worry (or something along those lines :-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hahahah barely
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, actually, his blog does say something
<imbrandon> who's ,about what?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: just waking up? dude you don't even deserve to live in your time zone ;-)
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, jono's about php
<imbrandon> hahaha yea i woke up at 8pm local time ( although i was up earlier today to give my daughter a b-day party )
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: i know, thats why i mentioned it :)
<imbrandon> she turned 10 today ( man i feel old )
<LaserJock> geeze, you are old
<imbrandon> LaserJock: lol thanks
<Toadstool> re
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> good to see you awake ;)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> bout time i'd say
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> How are we all going on merges?
<ajmitch> poorly
<ajmitch> give me some caffeine & I'll do some tonight
<nixternal> imbrandon: whats the k status homey..anything open and needing work?
<TheMuso> heh
<imbrandon> nixternal: ummm no idea honsetly, i havent fully awoke, but i'm sure there are tons of merges to be done
* ajmitch has a nice pile of merges to get through this week
* nixternal don't have nothing right now
* nixternal rephrases that, i don't have "anything" right now
* Hobbsee has a few more.
* Hobbsee has done most of them
<imbrandon> hrm , jono bacon , jo no bacon , jo nobacon , jo kosher , jokosher , heheheheh /me JUST caught that
<nixternal> ya, but can't bacon be kosher, as long as it isnt' processed by human
<nixternal> ?
<Burgundavia> anybody got a dapper machine up and running?
<elkbuntu> nixternal, he's a twisted fellow, twisted humor is highly possible :
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: i have a dapper file server running , no gui
<Burgundavia> that doesn't help me
<Burgundavia> I need to know what the language selector is called
<imbrandon> k
<minghua> Burgundavia: I have a dapper partition here, I think I can chroot in it and see
<minghua> Burgundavia: what do you need exactly?
<Burgundavia> the name on the menu
<minghua> which menu?
<Burgundavia> on the admin one
<Burgundavia> in the desktop file
<minghua> # grep "^Name=" language-selector.desktop
<minghua> Name=Language Support
<minghua> Burgundavia: is that what you need?
<Burgundavia> that is exactly what I need
<LaserJock> kkubasik: you aren't meant to advocate your own packages :-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i dident think you could
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yes, you can on you're own packages
<LaserJock> REVU bug :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we can de-advocate those packages of course :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: is the revu code on LP upto date ?
<imbrandon> or is that revu2 only
<ajmitch> there're both revu & revu2 branches there
<ajmitch> I don't know if the latest has been pushed there or not
<imbrandon> arg no jokosher debs, only a shoddy script that compiles gstreamer cvs etc /me kicks jono
<LaserJock> heah, he's a community guy, not a MOTU ;-)
<imbrandon> hehe yea
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: they need gstreamer cvs
<ajmitch> imbrandon: there are no debs for a reason - it requires gstream from cvs
<ajmitch> LaserJock: stripped advocacy from moodbar, what's the other one?
<Burgundavia> this would be the "so bleeding edge it hurts" app
<ajmitch> ah, labyrinth
* TheMuso is glad serpento is being synced. The version numbering for the last Ubuntu upload was... Um... Shall we say... A little screwy.
<Hobbsee> ugh, yes
<LaserJock> labyrinth
<imbrandon> ahh hehe
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ditto for a few other ones of them.  magic-haskell, among others
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: heh
<imbrandon> well i gues i can compile gst cvs as i dont use it for anything else
<imbrandon> so no biggie if it dies
<ajmitch> imbrandon: and the world burns...
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm interested in how software development works like that
<imbrandon> all the rest of the apps i use are xine so no loss if i screw it up
<LaserJock> do jokosher guys run around with cvs gstreamer?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> I wonder how that works
<imbrandon> LaserJock: thats why they had to use jono's laptop for the demo at UDS even though they had to X forward it etc
<imbrandon> when it wouldent hook to the projector
<tonyyarusso> Backporting question: I had requested a backport of sobby, and it got a reply that I didn't really understand.  Could someone confirm that the comment on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/sobby/+bug/71875 translates as "Sorry, this isn't possible" in English?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71875 in sobby "sobby is unusable on Dapper - fixed in 0.4" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<ajmitch> tonyyarusso: it means "it will not happen"
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso: it means it does not compile without source changes in dapper, thus cannot be backported
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch, imbrandon: Ah, thanks.  Can it be done just for my personal system?
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso: if you get it to compile for you personaly sure, just be aware of breakage you may cause later on and prepare to deal with it
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: Hmm...icky.  Oh well.
<ajmitch> kkubasik: I've archived your banshee upload on revu as well, it is being handled already
<LaserJock> yeah, we need a REVU cleanup day just to get out the obsoleted uploads
<ajmitch> the upload of banshee to debian was done because of a broken ubuntu upload, too
<imbrandon> gah xterm messages in kde, /me kicks jono AGAIN, and he said he was a kde hacker before
<imbrandon> hrm
<ajmitch> haha
<imbrandon> i might be easier to do this by hand then fix the script to work on kde
<imbrandon> it*
<ajmitch> TheMuso: are you sure that serpento is syncable?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Hang on... I'll have another look.
<ajmitch> 0.4.1-0.2 looks to be less than 0.4.1ubuntu2
<LaserJock> what? is it really 0.4.1ubuntu2?
<TheMuso> What command do you use to figure that?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: take a look with apt-cache madison
<ajmitch> dpkg --compare-versions 0.4.1-0.2 gt 0.4.1ubuntu2 && echo 'yes'
<imbrandon> dpkg --compare-versions
<TheMuso> ah
<TheMuso> I knew it was something to do with dpkg.
<LaserJock> bummer
<imbrandon> see thats why i hate native versioning
<imbrandon> ( because a NMU can screw it up )
<TheMuso> So in this case, it has to be merged just because of the screwy version numbers?
<StevenK> ajmitch: So, can I bug you hard enough to upload something for me?
<imbrandon> yea untill 0.4.2 comes out
<TheMuso> Lovely/
<TheMuso> :S
<TheMuso> Ok. Will reject the bug.
<ajmitch> StevenK: what now?
* imbrandon hides
* ajmitch is not here
<StevenK> Dear me.
<StevenK> I didn't think I asked that much.
* ajmitch points at imbrandon 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you are so here.  now do some work
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's main, after all :P
<imbrandon> hahaha /me hides better
<TheMuso> Thanks ajmitch. I wasn't aware that version numbers could play a problem with syncing.
<TheMuso> s/play/be/
<LaserJock> man I don't like reviewing packages
<LaserJock> it takes me forever
<ajmitch> reviewing is easy
<ajmitch> just pick 5 things that are wrong with the package :)
<ajmitch> that gives them enough to work on
<LaserJock> yeah, but when they actually have a decent package
<ajmitch> then it takes a bit longer to find 5 things
<Burgundavia> there is always something
<Burgundavia> the trick is to make them work hard enough that you don;t actually have to upload it
<Burgundavia> while not chasing them away
<TheMuso> haha
<imbrandon> ajmitch: what do you really think about putting a cvs gst in , it wont effect kubuntu at all but i'm not sure how much of an impact on ubuntu it will have
<TheMuso> I'll bet you will find something to do with the copyright file.
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: the kde developers need to get ont eh same page and start using gstreamer
<StevenK> The wonderful thing about complaining about the copyright file is you can make them chase their tails for weeks.
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: feisty+1 e.g. kde4 will use gst
<TheMuso> StevenK: hehe
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it could break a lot
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: via that wacked phonon layer
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: yes
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: or lets talk about "solid"
<Burgundavia> kde abstracted my abstraction layer indeed
<imbrandon> heh well imho it needs to be done as there are many abstration layers but none for the application level, but thats a whole nother story
<imbrandon> ajmitch: so , no-go , or ummm /me wondera how long it will be for a gst release proper
<ajmitch> ask them
<imbrandon> are they on freenode ? if not i'll just pop an email out
<ajmitch> of course
* imbrandon has never delt with gst people cept at UDS
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: yes, there is a place for a "place this sound api". That place is in a cross DE thingy
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o nixternal]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o nixternal]  by ChanServ
<nixternal> that was a stupid script
* LaserJock wonders how much time could be saved on REVU if lintian -i on source package and .deb were required before uploading
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I think i should really hit that harder in the packaging guide and MOTU School
* nixternal always does lintian
<LaserJock> lintian -i is awesome
<nixternal> my lintian outputs have has been good, with the typical warnings
<nixternal> it is my builds that suck
<nixternal> haha
<LaserJock> it tells people like the chapter/section of the Debian Policy were they screwed up
<nixternal> people don't like me..i put stuff on revu and they walk past it
<LaserJock> running lintian -i on the .deb is often interesting
<nixternal> they see my name, and they are like "ahh this idiot is at it again"
<LaserJock> nixternal: it's not personal
<LaserJock> just business ;-)
<imbrandon> that happens to all uploads on revu lol
<nixternal> oh, its personal
<imbrandon> unfortunately
<nixternal> not all, because i watch people comment on them all day long...i think there is a secret army
<imbrandon> actualy its kinda sad, i'm more likely to revu something from someone i have talked to before
<nixternal> except me imbrandon
<nixternal> you see my name on revu and walk past
<imbrandon> nixternal: i said _WHEN_ i revu , hehe
<nixternal> you might even flick a cig butt at me
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you know what mood files are with Amarok?
<nixternal> im like the little homeless guy that just wants some love..some spare change, a bite of your sammich
<imbrandon> man i need a brain implant , so i dont have to type, just think it
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yes
<imbrandon> sammich, lol , classic
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yes, but they need amarok gst to work and amaork upstream has droped gst support , thus so did we
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm kinda opposite I think, I'll revu for people who aren't around often because I don't want them scared away
<imbrandon> it might change with the 2.0 release though and gst 0.10+
<nixternal> ya, i used the mood thing one time, and was like ahhh this is nuts, and next you thing you know i update from imbrandon's repos and it was gone
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, the results of having your thoughts piped to a computer could be .. interesting
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: to say the leaste
<LaserJock> hmm, cause I'm reviewing this moodbar package and it's got a dep on fftw3
<imbrandon> fftw3?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I'd have to do an ignore
<LaserJock> fast fourier transform
<LaserJock> it's a math/science thing
<LaserJock> usually used for  frequency space- time space conversion
<imbrandon> ahh sounds right, the moodbar for amarok is kinda, umm screwy to so the leaste, i dident even thing there was a official release of it yet, as even the dev says its not really ready
<imbrandon> but its "useable" just not umm stable / good
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> is there a reason why we would not advocate a package simply because we don't want it in?
<LaserJock> like not a packaging problem, but like it's just crappy software?
<imbrandon> yea it does some strange number stuff with the bpm etc and stuff on the music
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: which package?
<Burgundavia> http://distrowatch.com/index.php?dataspan=1 <-- look at the mint numbers
<imbrandon> LaserJock: well i dont see a problem with letting it in, i doubt many will use it though ( if its packaged good and he agrees to maintain it )
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I don't have a specific example in mind
<LaserJock> but I wonder about our general attitude towards letting packages in
<LaserJock> I think in Debian they often ask questions like "Why do we need this package and what does it do that XYZ doesn't?"
<nixternal> LaserJock: anyone ever call you a nerd? fast fourier transform...i thought you messed up the name of the fast and the furious at first
<LaserJock> nixternal: what? dude, I had to do those by hand
<LaserJock> doing spead of sound labs
<secretlondon> nixternal: some of us had to do that at college
<nixternal> ya, speed there tugboat
<nixternal> i drank in college and learned cisco
<imbrandon> LaserJock: well if thats the case, i say let it in as nothing out there does what it does, i just personaly dont find it usefull, but that dosent mean someone wont
<imbrandon> it is in gentoo if that matters to ya :)
<nixternal> now im learning that stuff and business
<secretlondon> nixternal: I fiddled with computers which as a linguistics student meant sound processing
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> i know what you are talking about now
<nixternal> <voice="ogar">NERDS!</voice>
<nixternal> ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, I wasn't thinking so much about this case
<nixternal> although, i can't remember none of the math i learned in college
<LaserJock> although what about packages that don't have great security history or something
<imbrandon> from my experince, debian says if someone takes the time to properly package it , then someone cares enough for it to be in the archive
<nixternal> i never used it again afterwards...i wish i would have stuck more with programming that i did with networking/hardware and electronics
<secretlondon> nixternal: I've got a b.a. - that excludes me from nerd-dom afaik
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i gotta b.s. definitely excluding me from nerd-dom, but it is bs afterall ;)
<LaserJock> secretlondon: I've got a B.A. and I'm definitely a nerd
<imbrandon> nothing can exclude you from nerd-dom
<imbrandon> or geek-dom
<LaserJock> at my school they had some weird thing where only the Education majors got B.S.s
<imbrandon> wow
<ajmitch> I wish I was as geeky as LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> yeah, so I have a B.A. in Environmental Science with majors in Chemisty and Applied Mathematical Science
<nixternal> im 23 credits shy of my MBA, and that is the furthest thing from nerd-dom or geek-dom
<ajmitch> BA in environmental science sounds too much like save the trees, hug a whale
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> yeah, well it was the only science related degree at my school
<LaserJock> and it *was* in Montana
<nixternal> 10 of those credits are 2 independents where you do nothing but create a business plan that must get approved
<imbrandon> crack dealer count?
<nixternal> gonna find out
<nixternal> i have been working my pimp hand as well, just incase everything falls through
<imbrandon> lol
* imbrandon wants to work for google after the visit to the campus and talking to some of the employees
<ajmitch> imbrandon: applied yet?
<nixternal> i never realised how wonderful perl was until i went through and made some old irssi scripts useful these past 2 days
<imbrandon> ajmitch: no, but i have been SEROUISLY thinking about it
<nixternal> bah, google asked a few of us from the LUG if we were interested in Linux admin positions in chicago
<ajmitch> I wouldn't mind some job offers some days
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I see Fluxbuntu is #100 on distrowatch ;-)
<nixternal> i think everbody but 1 turned it down
<nixternal> working out of the RR Donnelly building downtown for peanuts
<ajmitch> heh
<nixternal> you want to work for money, you work for red hat in downtown chicago
<nixternal> their admins start at 80
<joejaxx> LaserJock: you are kidding me
<LaserJock> joejaxx: no, just 2 places behind Edubuntu
<joejaxx> LOl
<ajmitch> distrowatch isn't the most accurate indicator
<LaserJock> poor Edubuntu
* joejaxx fires up links2
<nixternal> ya, distrowatch is far from accurate..they have Ubuntu as #1 when we all know better
<nixternal> Kubuntu is #1
<secretlondon> does ubuntuguide run unofficial repos?
<LaserJock> well, they do lots of crack
<ajmitch> nixternal: #1 of what? :)
<nixternal> secretlondon: everything they do is unofficial
<imbrandon> secretlondon: i wouldent doubt it , seems every boob with a website runs a repo now a dats
<imbrandon> days*
<elkbuntu> i dont! :D
<nixternal> i think they link to other people's repos though
<ajmitch> 99.9% of them are broken
<secretlondon> nixternal: I've someone on Live journal recommending their repos
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: I do!
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: I DO!
<secretlondon> I DON'T!
<nixternal> i use the repos in my default /etc/apt/sources.list and thats it
<LaserJock> joejaxx: oh, that was for the 7day average
<ajmitch> the only use of my repository is that it's created by pbuilder, and used for compiling subsequent packages
<LaserJock> where Mint is #1
<nixternal> well, i have imbrandon's and kubuntu.org as well for testing
<elkbuntu> ok, so far the actual people with boobs dont.. the people with moob do :
* elkbuntu starts running
<nixternal> wth
<secretlondon> ajmitch: but I presume you are competent and therefore I don't mind
<elkbuntu> s/moob/moobs/
<secretlondon> moobs?
<ajmitch> secretlondon: don't make rash presumptions
<nixternal> elkbuntu: you just threw me in a spin..i had to double check where that comment came from
<elkbuntu> secretlondon, man boobs
<secretlondon> ah
<nixternal> i have a pair of those
<nixternal> if only they had man bras
<imbrandon> oh jez
<nixternal> hahahaha
<secretlondon> real boobs are better
<nixternal> she started it
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah it is not on there now lol
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: see what you started?
<secretlondon> you are just aspirant
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, :D
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, cant think of a proper response, laughing too hard
<Hobbsee> oh dear.  all this talk of boobs.
<secretlondon> I know..
<joejaxx> Lol
<ajmitch> there are ladies present, you know :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<secretlondon> we are very familar with them
<Hobbsee> unless you're working on liboobs, this is not development!  :P
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> secretlondon: indeed
<ajmitch> LaserJock: soon the guys will be outnumbered here
<elkbuntu> owww. jaw hurting from laughing now
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what are we going to do? :(
* secretlondon cheers
<imbrandon> oh man
<joejaxx> Fluxbuntu is a light-weight, standards-compliant, Ubuntu-based Linux distribution featuring the Fluxbox window manager. The project's primary goal is to develop an operating system that would run on a wide range of mobile devices and computers, both low-end and high-end.
<joejaxx> :D
<crimsun> I'll slink away with my mere mortalness.
<joejaxx> they got it right
<joejaxx> finally
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: curl up in small balls, and shudder
<joejaxx> someone actually got the real goal of the project right
<imbrandon> heya crimsun
<joejaxx> distrowatch
<ajmitch> crimsun: if only I could
<LaserJock> I mean, I'm a raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU, but there's no way I'm doing a sex change just to stay here
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hahaha
<nixternal> whoa
<ajmitch> haha
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i think we can all say "we're very glad for that"
<nixternal> watch out, soon LaserJock will be hacking from the Bunny Runch
<Hobbsee> haha
<imbrandon> i just think its funny since i was describing a person and someone else took it as a body part , hehe the engrish barier
<LaserJock> heh, my wife is finding this conversation interesting ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ahahah i bet
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I wonder why
<nixternal> engrish, that is so racist
<secretlondon> LaserJock: is she into boobs too?
<nixternal> wth has happened here
* Hobbsee continues to giggle
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, no dude, nothing lost in translation...
<LaserJock> secretlondon: not even going to go there
<ajmitch> nixternal: elkbuntu
<nixternal> no doubt
<nixternal> motu == Master of T$#$) Universe or what now
<imbrandon> sooo , anyone tried the new gnash synced from debian ?
* nixternal hurries up and runs to church yelling "my eyes are burning, my eyes are burning!"
<ajmitch> heh
<nixternal> imbrandon: i have tried the latest gnash from svn or cvs
<nixternal> they have come a long way, and still have a long way to go
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'm not brave enough
<secretlondon> we've had a few gnash bugs today - not looked at and may not be our package as automatix installs
<Hobbsee> nixternal: i can make your eyes burn, dont fear
<nixternal> im willing to bet it works find with <flash7
<Hobbsee> secretlondon: assign them to imbrandon
<Hobbsee> secretlondon: imbrandon would like that
<imbrandon> ummm automatix ? please tell me you have nothing to do with that project secretlondon
<secretlondon> of course i have nothing to do with it
<nixternal> uh oh, i just heard carlos mencia
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: i wouldnet mind if its gnash bugs, automatix bugs and i will goto the DC with their server with a shotgun
<secretlondon> i'm just a triager and shit sweeper and when I kept getting gnash bugs I asked them where they got it..
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: your new job is to make a package that detects if the user has automatix installed, and if it does, give them a 404 in all browsers when they try to visi tlaunchpad
<Hobbsee> haha
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> that would soooo rock
<Hobbsee> 403 might be better
<secretlondon> luser error
<imbrandon> big fskin wallpaper would be better
<nixternal> hahaha
<Hobbsee> "FORBIDDEN, DUE TO THAT CRAP CALLED AUTOMATIX THAT WAS FOUND ON YOUR SYSTEM"
<Hobbsee> with the skull
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, we were so close
<nixternal> https://launchpad.net/bugs == 404 Automatix don't belong!
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i know
<mnepton> hey, step back. my smile might just crack. can't stop grins from growing wide today. i'm like a rocket from a bottle shot free!
<LaserJock> ion so rocked for that stunt
* mnepton pogos into a wall
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yep
<imbrandon> mnepton: umm are you ok ?
* Hobbsee duct tapes mnepton up, and locks him into the close
<Hobbsee> t
<nixternal> no doubt
<nixternal> messin' with ice?
<ajmitch> mnepton!
<mnepton> i've been up with the larks! i've been shooting off sparks! and i'm feelin' in LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE!
<Hobbsee> oookay!
<nixternal> hahahahah
<mnepton> xtc++
<nixternal> see, you guys turned this channel into a booby show and people have gone nuts
<imbrandon> kurt , you should blog about some of the calls you get, heheh ( assuming the nda says you can by changing the customers names )
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> mnepton just loves us all so much in universe land, that he had to join us
<elkbuntu> guys, new plan. automatix users get all the multimedia they can handle in form of mnepton singing
<VoX> someone say boobies?
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: entertaining
<nixternal> hahahahahahaha
<imbrandon> LOL
<LaserJock> VoX: no, go back to bed
<VoX> k
<nixternal> hahaha
* mnepton looks left
<imbrandon>  /kick VoX goto sleep
<crimsun> man, punishment is harsh these days
* mnepton looks right
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: hahahahahha
<mnepton> ok, this ticket i got on *my very first day*
<nixternal> hiya crimsun!
<mnepton> "Listen how many god damb fucki8ng times I have to fucking E-mail you asholes before I fucking get one that god damb compatent enough to answer my mother fucking questions because this is the fourth fucking fime I have fucking e-mailed some one and still the only thing I ever get is sorry this is not the right sight go to -------------."
<Hobbsee> !language
<ubotu> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
<mnepton> "ever since I have put ubuntu on my god damb computer the only thing is has been good for is a fucking papper wieght I can't even get on the damb enternet with it . So in less you want me to copy 500,000 flyers off of how much your operateing system sucks ass and put them on every fucking sign in Hollywood then get the right fuck nut to fucking e-mail me and tell me how to fix my fucking computer"
<nixternal> hello
<ajmitch> haha
<mnepton> this is my world. i now drop the curtain, never to horrify you again.
<nixternal> i wonder if they got the point in that email
<nixternal> mnepton: so how do you really feel?
<LaserJock> mnepton: oh man, I feel so bad for you :(
<lifeless> nixternal: you dont want to know
<crimsun> mnepton: yep, been there. Welcome to I'm-not-going-back-to-IT-helpdesk-after-seven-years.
<LaserJock> I thought the forums were bad enough
<ajmitch> afternoon lifeless
<imbrandon> heya lifeless
<secretlondon> mnepton: official support?
<nixternal> holy jesus
<imbrandon> secretlondon: yes
<mnepton> i've been up in the clouds! i've been shrugging off shrouds! and i'm feelin' in LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE!
<nixternal> i would print and fram that email
<elkbuntu> nixternal, well, if his musical choice at UDS was any indication...
<secretlondon> wow - those people PAY for support? *shocked*
<nixternal> thank god i got to stand next to the GNUFather then
<crimsun> his musical choice is well justified, whatever his musical choice may be.
<nixternal> who hadn't showered in years
<imbrandon> " .... enternet .... " , thats my fav part
<mnepton> imbrandon: damb you to hell, sir. ;)
<imbrandon> heheh
<nixternal> thats classic right there
<nixternal> i have a bunch of people i switched over to ubuntu..either they love it and have no problems with it, or they just gave up on computing..because my cell phone has been quiet for a few weeks now
<imbrandon> i'm thinking it has to be a trip working with kurt and jeff in CA, might suck at that moment but the aftertouhghts and stories rockl
<elkbuntu> crimsun, iirc along the lines of 'i dream of jeanie'
<secretlondon> nixternal: they were using the forums for support and now it won't boot..
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Say it ain't so!
* mnepton shimmies
<elkbuntu> StevenK, ask the man for his reasoning
<imbrandon> heheh , one , one support call, ha ha ha
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it'd be scary alright
<crimsun> elkbuntu: something has to give, either the person paying for support or the IT dude's sanity. I'd say that choice is innocuous. ;)
<StevenK> elkbuntu: *twitch*
<mnepton> *lightning flash*
<imbrandon> crimsun: hahahaa how true
* StevenK is so glad he is out of support.
<StevenK> Now I get to write the bugs and not fix them,
<StevenK> s/,$/./
<imbrandon> you know this is the first time i think i've seen you in here mnepton
* Hobbsee just wishes people would know that WE'RE A SUPERMARKET, NOT A PIZZA SHOP!
<nixternal> well, after reading that email, i don't feel so bad about what i put the guy through at the states office when filing LLC Bylaws and the antribution garbage
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Hi, I'd like a large pizza...
<LaserJock> mnepton: now you've ruined all motive I've ever had in working in Montreal ;-)
<nixternal> attribution as well
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: with fishies
<Hobbsee> StevenK: GO TO A PIZZA SHOP, kthnksbye!
<StevenK> Bwaha
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how could you not want to be near such creative genius?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well ...
<imbrandon> s/kthnksbye!/kthxby!
<secretlondon> rehi
<StevenK> imbrandon: kthxbye, even?
<mnepton> imbrandon: my irssi session is frightnening. i have to keep some channels on a desktop client just to keep things sane.
<imbrandon> +1 StevenK
<elkbuntu> s/kthxby!/kthxbai!!!!11one/
<StevenK> Muahaha
<Lathiat> its kthxbai!!!!!111one1111eleventy-one111
<Lathiat> sheesh, get it right.
<ajmitch> mnepton: you need a widescreen monitor & small terminal fonts?
<mnepton> foad kthxbye 1054|2!!1!1!11!!!!!!
<imbrandon> i have about 65 irssi windows going atm , i hate it up over a hundred a few times
<Lathiat> hrm
<secretlondon> always eleventyone
<Lathiat> yoru worse than me
<LaserJock> sweet 2 reviews down, 1 to go
<Lathiat> i set between 20 and 45 most times
<ajmitch> I'm sure someone saw my irssi client at UDS
<ajmitch> with > 100 open
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i did
<ajmitch> it's back below 90 now
<nixternal> i have a whopping 57
<elkbuntu> i believe i may well have ruined all chance of productivity in this channel for today...
<StevenK> Heh, I have nine...
<nixternal> going to drop back down into the 20s
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that's just gross :-)
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: correct
<nixternal> as most of them, the people annoy me
* nixternal parts
<nixternal> hahaha
<imbrandon> its the weekend , shhhhh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no, it's called broadening my horizons ;)
<nixternal> weekend is over in 20
<StevenK> Not here it ain't.
<imbrandon> well for another 20 minutes here
<secretlondon> 6am in 20 mins here
<nixternal> midnight in 20 in chitown
<LaserJock> ajmitch: heh, by staying in irssi? oh sure, mhm, I believe you ;-)
<imbrandon> let me guess, london ?
<ajmitch> secretlondon: and you're still up for some reason?
<secretlondon> imbrandom: yeah..
<imbrandon> heh
<secretlondon> ajmitch: because I'm nocturnal etc
* imbrandon dident wake up till 8pm localtime
<nixternal> ajmitch: you need to use the chanact.pl script and have it size 15 and display chan names..i bet you wouldn't even have a chat window..it would be all statusbar
<StevenK> Because her Internet works better when everyone else is sleeping!
<secretlondon> yes
<secretlondon> excatly!
<nixternal> k, down to 33 windows, and 33 is my hilight box
* StevenK high fives secretlondon
<imbrandon> nixternal: email it to me, i wouldent mind that script
<ajmitch> nixternal: no thanks
<imbrandon> if it works
<LaserJock> I'm more of a 9 to 5 guy
* Hobbsee is nocturnal
<ajmitch> LaserJock: 9pm-5am?
<Burgundavia> crimsun: that is why I now do sales
<secretlondon> i'm more of a 9pm to 5am girl..
<LaserJock> ajmitch: no
<Burgundavia> crimsun: no more support for me
<nixternal> imbrandon: my script is funkdafied..you might want the default one from the irssi website, or f0rked
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: it sucked out your sanity?
<imbrandon> nixternal: i tried that one, dosent work
<nixternal> it works great imbrandon
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: is sales that much better?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: yes, and destroyed my relationship with my then-gf and prevented me from working on Ubuntu, becuase I didn't want to see another computer when I got home
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: not much, but a litt
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: ouch
<ajmitch> I'm glad I have nothing to do with support
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: she said "I was the most depressing and boring person she had ever seen"  after I got home
<StevenK> Burgundavia: That's nice of her.
<nixternal> imbrandon:
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/desktop.png
<nixternal> forgot to shift+insert, not ctrl+v
* secretlondon suspects that if she gets a job it'll be in support
<mnepton> o/~
<Burgundavia> StevenK: she and I get along very well, now, although she is my ex
<Burgundavia> secretlondon: where do you live?
<mnepton> Do you know what noise awakes you every morning from your bed?  A-coming from the farthest hillside, a-coming from inside your head. You have heard the loudest sound. In this and every world you can think of
<secretlondon> Burgundavia: lOndon, UK
<nixternal> arg, i screenshotted the whole desktop, not just the window
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> secretlondon: for some reason I thought you were in Vancouver, but that wouldn't make much sense
<mnepton> Louder than tanks on the highway. Louder than bombers in flight. Louder than noises of hatred. Dancing us from darkest night is the rhythm of love. Powered on the the beating of hearts!
<secretlondon> Burgundavia: you've told me this before. I can confirm I'm not Canadian, although I bet it's nicer than here
<Burgundavia> secretlondon: yep
<Burgundavia> mnepton: you are drunk
<mnepton> Burgundavia: only on love for my fellow man. and fermented horse urine.
<crimsun> gotta drown one's support^Wsorrows
<Burgundavia> high?
* StevenK tries to actually disentangle himself from work.
<mnepton> Burgundavia: high on life. and Afghani red.
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: wouldn't you be after 2 weeks with canonical people?
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder if irssi would run on my ipod ......
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: I don't know, I didn't f**king go
* Burgundavia bitches about work
<StevenK> Dear. Bitter much?
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, dont get him started please
<LaserJock> hmm, well we know where he works and who his boss is ;-)
<nixternal> elkbuntu: lol
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: he has to let go of his hate sometime
* secretlondon points at automatix
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: I work for a company that should be in the dailywtf
<secretlondon> fire you hate that way
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, logged channel
<LaserJock> secretlondon: he does, that an Launchpad
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: I am welll aware of that, thank you :)
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, :
<Burgundavia> I have done nearly everythign I can and they still won't fire me
<StevenK> Why not resign?
<Burgundavia> because we are ever so close to sanity
<Burgundavia> and lots of shiny money :)
<imbrandon> man i have that interview in ~12 hours and i'm not sleepy , man-o-man tomarrow is gonna be fun
<StevenK> I figured that was the reason.
* StevenK has just worked a full day on 3.5 hours sleep.
<imbrandon> ohhh do you get a pony ? i want a pony ( but i'm in line after crimsun for one )
<Burgundavia> no pony for me
<imbrandon> darn
<mnepton> o/~ For a heart without love is a song with no words and a tune to which no-one is listening. So your heart must give love and you'll find that you shine like rain on the leaves you'll be glistening. You have heard the loudest sound in this and every world you can think of. Louder than thoughts of dictators. Louder than rattling swords. Louder than loading of rifles. Louder than screaming warlords. Dancing us from darkest night is the rhythm
<mnepton> of love. Powered on by the beating of hearts! o/~
<Burgundavia> holy crap
<nixternal> Burgundavia: you actually blessed a turd?
<elkbuntu> mnepton, you're scaring the geeks
<imbrandon> i feel for those on 80x24 irssi
<Burgundavia> Dear imbrandon, my computer has been infected with KDE. Please advise as to its removal. Yours, Burgundavia
<imbrandon> i feel for those on 80x24 anything actualy
<secretlondon> hahaha
<StevenK> Hah
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: haha
<nixternal> Burgundavia: sudo apt-get die
<secretlondon> some guy has offered me a serial console in return for having a drink with him..
<Burgundavia> secretlondon: take the serial console and run
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> i was thinking the same thing
<StevenK> secretlondon: Interesting pick up line...
<secretlondon> Burgundavia: I get a 64 bit sun too so I'll have the drink
<imbrandon> i just wondering how you met such a gent
<secretlondon> via my lug of course!
<Burgundavia> "hey baby. Want to see my 'serial connector'?"
<StevenK> Hah
<imbrandon> hehe
<Lathiat> i often use irssi in 80x24
<secretlondon> well via the lug irc channel
* StevenK twitches.
<StevenK> secretlondon: What kind of Sparc?
<Lathiat> depends if i can bf resizing the window at the time
<secretlondon> StevenK: It's an ultra 1, I've already got 5 Sparcstations 20s that I got off freecycle
<imbrandon> nice
<StevenK> Ahh
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: try counting characters when updating a book
* StevenK pats the Ultra 5 he bought for $20
<ajmitch> somehow I don't think I'll try using a serial console as a pickup :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Hah
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hahaha , even at a lug ?
<imbrandon> lol
<secretlondon> ajmitch: he's about 10 years younger than me so it's a bit of a bizarre one
<ajmitch> not even ther
<StevenK> "Will trade hardware for sexua..."
* StevenK trails off.
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> bad StevenK
<StevenK> Indeed, bad me.
<secretlondon> decent hardware only
<imbrandon> thats kinda like the paypal dontate button "not hungry, just broke" :)
<secretlondon> old sunboxen that go for 15 on ebay don't count..
<imbrandon> secretlondon: hahaha
<StevenK> secretlondon: Haha
<StevenK> secretlondon: How about an account on an amd64 machine? :-P
<nixternal> spamassassin and bogofilter are the biggest waste of applications i have ever seen
<secretlondon> an account only?
<nixternal> it takes them forever to learn
<StevenK> secretlondon: Well, I need the machine to do Ubuntu work on. :-)
<imbrandon> StevenK: hhaha then many would "owe" me , LOL
<StevenK> I wonder what your wife would say.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i suspect you're out of luck with that ;P
<StevenK> Heck, I wonder what mine would. :-P
<imbrandon> StevenK: not much as i got the final divorce papers 2 days before UDS
<imbrandon> :)
<Admiral_Chicago> where can people take their requests to add packages
<StevenK> imbrandon: Neat. :-(
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago: http://wiki.kubuntu.org/MOTU/Canidates
<Admiral_Chicago> somone used LP and filed a bug to request a package in multiverse
<secretlondon> Admiral_Chicago: I'm looking at thatone, it's non free
<Admiral_Chicago> i don't know where to rederict theme
<imbrandon> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<imbrandon> ^^ sorry , there
<secretlondon> yeah but it's non free
<imbrandon> well in general, for future ref
<secretlondon> it'd be a sync from debian, but debian non-free
<Burgundavia> secretlondon: yay! for non-free supported crap. mnepton is clearly entirely too happy for a support person. We need to make his job harder. We could, say, ship a binary driver or two.
<Admiral_Chicago> secretlondon: yes hence multiverse.
<secretlondon> they claim the license is bsd-like, but debian clearly don't think so
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon: so you would need a MOTU to package it?
<Admiral_Chicago> i've been wanting to start packaging.
<nixternal> Burgundavia: how about enabling composite by default?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yeah well I got duped into packaging non-free stuff ;-)
<secretlondon> frostwire needs doing..
<Admiral_Chicago> i even talked to RichJ about it but i don't know where to start
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: tell them my feelings about composite!
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: Userful paid you good dollars for that packaging
<nixternal> RichJ is a punk
<Admiral_Chicago> secretlondon: bsd is completely different than GPL iirc
<nixternal> wo0t, it is the 20th of november
<imbrandon> richJ == nixternal
<Burgundavia> canadian dollars even, none of that baseless US stff
<Admiral_Chicago> composite is crap -- nixternal
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: that check smelled a little Canadian though
* ajmitch wishes he got paid for packaging :)
<nixternal> 3 days until mass amounts of turkey
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon: i know it
<secretlondon> Admiral_Chicago: it's not non-free, bsd would argue they were more free in fact
<nixternal> there you go Admiral_Chicago  ;p
<StevenK> imbrandon: And one less set of family to deal with?
<secretlondon> nixternal: we only do turkey at xmas here
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago: anyhow yes if you want to package something go for it, and put it on revu
<imbrandon> StevenK: exactly
<nixternal> secretlondon: if it were up to me, i would eat turkey every day
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: besides, your packaging that means I get to use Ubuntu at my office
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon: i'm not sure where to start. i found some links but not sure
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: really?
<secretlondon> nixetrnal: i buy it as it is cheaper per lb than chicken..
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago: package guide
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon: i have that link, hmm maybe nixternal can help.
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: I decided to run Ubuntu in the Victoria office. having it packaged made it so much simpler
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: i just volunteered you...
<nixternal> im a red meat type of guy...i eat steak pretty much every other day, and mass amounts of pasta
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: also, our officially packaged stuff doesn't wokr on Ubuntu as where as your stuff does
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: well then I'm glad I took your companies money then ;-)
* nixternal shows off his pimp hand
<LaserJock> if only it had paid for the money I lost in Paris :/
<imbrandon> you lost money ?
<crimsun> purchasing godhood is expensive.
<imbrandon> hehe
<crimsun> (no, it was a bad experience.)
<crimsun> TheMuso: I see you've been initiated into the joys of merging native-source NMUs.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's only money
<ajmitch> not a laptop, wallet, etc
<Admiral_Chicago> i'll work on packaging that program
<Admiral_Chicago> i put it in the bug report
<imbrandon> hrm i think i'm going to put pure ubuntu on the lappy, as i have plenty of kubuntu workstations
* imbrandon can feel the pull to the light ......... *resists* ......
* secretlondon laughs
<imbrandon> well it sucks when i dont even have _one_ ubuntu box to check stuff on
<imbrandon> who knows i might grow to like it , never more than kde though :)
<imbrandon> hrm are there any gui mpeg/avi/some_movie_format to dvd.iso programs ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon:  I had my wallet stolen in Paris
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ouch
<LaserJock> driver's license, money, all my credit cards, and stupidly my SS card
<imbrandon> not cool, pasport ?
<LaserJock> nope
<imbrandon> luckly , still not cool at all
<LaserJock> that's all I had left, and like 10 euros
<ajmitch> join the club!
<imbrandon> wow
<LaserJock> and my cell phone didn't work
<imbrandon> oh man
<LaserJock> so I borrowed a phone from Jim McQuillan (LTSP guy) and Simon
<LaserJock> so I could call the credit card companies and my wife
<imbrandon> right right
<LaserJock> Jim even loaned me $50 for the trip home
<LaserJock> that's what the community's all about
<LaserJock> it was my first trip out of the US really
<imbrandon> yea definatley
<elkbuntu> i wonder how ogra went with his wallet...
<mnepton> elkbuntu: his passport was not in there, so he should be able to get home.
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: he lost it?
<elkbuntu> mnepton, i know that, but he was going to follow up over the next week
<imbrandon> orga lost his in mtv?
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, yeah, after the UDS dinner, at the club
<LaserJock> must be an Edubuntu curse
<imbrandon> ouch, not fskin cool
<mnepton> elkbuntu: he wasn;t overly concerned at AH, or at least hid it well
* Hobbsee makes a note that lots of stuff gets stolen at all UDS' :(
<imbrandon> mnepton: yall all back home ( or will be soon ) from AH
<LaserJock> well, at least he has his pants :-)
<nixternal> heh, welcome to the us, where your id/info is worth more that your weight in gold though
<elkbuntu> mnepton, i think he'd come to terms by the time we got back to the hotel, but he was going to try find trace of it anyway
<Admiral_Chicago> for real, it's ridiculously easy to steal someone's identity
<secretlondon> the media go on about it all the time here, but i'm not sure how much it happens in practice
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: it has always been though
<secretlondon> the government are using it as an excuse to introduce id cards and a scary database
<imbrandon> secretlondon: alot more than one would guess
<elkbuntu> i was not at all concerned about leaving my stuff in the conference room, but outside there i was wary
<mnepton> imbrandon: most of us are home, but some people are still in transit, and others are taking time off to explore SF.
<imbrandon> mnepton: ahh cool
* mnepton is in the office and slaving over a hot keyboard
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> night shift
<mnepton> aye
<imbrandon> 11p - 2a ?
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: i guess you're correct. i've learned so many "this is how someone can steal your identity" off the news that I could probably do it
<mnepton> ONE! ONE AM! A HA HA HA HA! *lightning flash*
<imbrandon> lol
<elkbuntu> lol
<secretlondon> mnepton: 6am! I WIN
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: the primary difference now, as with copying stuff, is that it is easier to do
<mnepton> 2300-0800 for me
<Admiral_Chicago> heck i bet i could do get someone's information right now
<elkbuntu> mnepton, those who didnt hear you and jono at uds will not appreciate that as much, you know
<elkbuntu> or, at allhands as well, i guess
<mnepton> elkbuntu: i pee on context.
<imbrandon> wow ok
<elkbuntu> hoookay
<imbrandon> i think if the next UDS is in spain like mark hinted at, i'
<imbrandon> m gonna take some extra time to see EU
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Did you post my present, by the way? :-P
<ajmitch> mnepton: brave of you to take that shift
<Admiral_Chicago> but i'm not going to, i'll just keep my self secure
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we'll see
<elkbuntu> StevenK, um... um.. crap
<StevenK> Heh
<LaserJock> I'm betting on the UK
<elkbuntu> StevenK, i have reasons, but they're non disclosable
<imbrandon> either way, i'd rather see the UK than spain anyhow
<Hobbsee> StevenK: clearly, you dont get a present
<ajmitch> StevenK: you get gifts?!
<StevenK> elkbuntu: It's fine, I was just checking.
<mnepton> imbrandon: if UDS was in Bangkok we could go on a Laotian teenage spanking tour. or sunbathe. or whatever.
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, there will be something for you too
* mnepton shrugs
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: he's delusional, he only thinks he's getting them
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: oh?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Two Ubuntu CDs. Woot.
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: what?
<imbrandon> mnepton: hahaha
<crimsun> that hurts, man. StevenK gets gifts, and my ponies get slaughtered.
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, super secret
<secretlondon> ooh spain could be cheap enough for me to get to
<crimsun> It just isn't fair! </wail>
<StevenK> Hahaha
<LaserJock> crimsun: lol
<secretlondon> uk would obviously be cheaper
<secretlondon> (for me anyway)
* ajmitch shouldn't have brought up those memories of pony sacrifices
<imbrandon> heh, every linux happening in 07 seems to be in the UK
<secretlondon> I know - it's great
<secretlondon> I need to decide which to go to
<LaserJock> my wife says we need one in Hawaii
* ajmitch won't get to any of them
* imbrandon needs to take a year off and live in the UK for 07
<imbrandon> if i had the money i would, but alas , all the cool stuff you need lots of money for it seems
* imbrandon needs to win the lottery
<elkbuntu> yeah :(
<LaserJock> yeah, lasers cost a ton
<LaserJock> :-)
<imbrandon> heheh
<LaserJock> and then the sharks ...
<imbrandon> sharks ?
<LaserJock> sea bass are cheaper at least
<ajmitch> sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads
* imbrandon has a manta ray tattoo , does that count ?
<lotusleaf> imbrandon: were I to win the lottery, I'd introduce america to the beautiful wonders of Kubuntu. :) Ahhh, K D E.. just say it, rolls off the tongue something fine.
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, when a manta ray manages to kill an environmentalist, maybe
<imbrandon> lotusleaf: :)
<ajmitch> lotusleaf: I think customs may have something to say about that
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: thats a stingray, manta's are harmeless
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, i know that. that was my point
<imbrandon> plus manta rays are much much larger
<imbrandon> :)
<elkbuntu> i know that as well
<LaserJock> now now kids, let's not fight over who's ray is bigger
<imbrandon> hrm , i just thought about it, i never hit the pool ( too cold ) so i never showed anyone my manta tattoo in UDS
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hahahaha
<lotusleaf> lol
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: that's a topic if I've ever seen one
<mnepton> i want a tattoo of a bigger penis on my penis.
<elkbuntu> ...
<Hobbsee> sigh
<imbrandon> ....
<elkbuntu> .....
<mnepton> ...---...
* StevenK packs up.
<Hobbsee> (< ....................
<Hobbsee> pacman!
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: nah thats (< ...... o ........
<Hobbsee> good point
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> mnepton: well, you certainly killed the conversation there.
<Burgundavia> stabby stabby
<ajmitch> must be a slow evening in montreal
<LaserJock> sorry, didn't mean to go that direction
<lotusleaf>  "Global Orgasm For Peace" http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_323212551.html
<LaserJock> should have know the Canonical guy would do that ;-)
<elkbuntu> mnepton, congratulations. you're weirder on IRC than you are in person. Usually it is the other way around.
<imbrandon> i scared the hell out of an old GF one time by driving down the middle of the road "eating the yellow pellets" making packman noises
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: for mnepton, that was quite a challenge
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, so true
<secretlondon> i reckon working at canonical must do that to you
<mnepton> dealing with the 2 week backlog of mail (especially lists) is driving me around the bend.
<mnepton> my inbox is like "I MISSED YOU SO MUCH I CRAPPED ALL OVER THE CARPET AND BURNED THE CAR!"
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon>  /win 76
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> ahhhh crud, i just overode my ipod kubuntu logo /me cries
<nixternal> are there even 76 channels on freenode?
<nixternal> that is probably why it keeps splitting all the time
<ajmitch> of course
<nixternal> channel overload
<VoX> doesnt need to be just channels
<Burgundavia> dear imbrandon, thanks for you last email. I have discovered that the "apt-get --purge remove kde-crap" works splendidly. Yours, Burgundavia
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: hehe
<nixternal> VoX: imbrandon isn't that cool that 76 people message him ;p
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, rofl
<VoX> heh
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: kde basing mood tonight ?
<imbrandon> bashing*
<mnepton> you can freebase KDE?
<mnepton> explains a lot.
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> imbrandon: im surprised he can even spell KDE
<imbrandon> just rool it into one of your smokes mnepton
<nixternal> at least our DE doesn't need dr. scholls
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: well, I started the language selector thingy and it started downloading the kde lang pack. I was like "why I am getting this giant steaming pile?" I already have the gnome-en-steaming-pile downloaded
<imbrandon> ahh
<mnepton> "wow! this goes right to your head! everything is shiny and ... OH GOD! MY HEAD IS ON FIRE!"
<Burgundavia> then I remembered I installed konsole and I so I nuked that and all was good
<Hobbsee> is there any form of good pinball under linux?  the one in repos sucks, and i never got the one distributed with windows under wine
<nixternal> Hobbsee: i found one on sourceforge a while back that was good
<Hobbsee> i think that's the one i found
<nixternal> but i can't seem to find it..i was playing it on my brothers computer earlier
<nixternal> hehe
<imbrandon> definately a strange night on irc
* secretlondon nods
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  aparently the one on windows will work under wine.
<nixternal> i don't drink
<nixternal> so i guess i can't play it then
<nixternal> ;p
<mnepton> for the record, Canonical Support has the *best* on-hold music evar. that is all.
<Lathiat> what is it?
<mnepton> "Sea Green" by William Orbit
<imbrandon> mnepton: slipknot ?
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> william orbit!!
* mnepton has it cranked ATM
<imbrandon> did jeff pick it ?
* mnepton did
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon votes for slipknot
<elkbuntu> is it 'i dream of jeanie'
<mnepton> elkbuntu: changing it now. just for you.
<imbrandon> lol
* elkbuntu twitches
<Lathiat> http://www.williamorbit.com/ has sea green
<nixternal> i hope sabdfl doesn't read this log, he will be upset to see that you are hanging out on IRC while on the clock ;)
<imbrandon> not really
<ajmitch> mnepton is often on irc :)
<LaserJock> every Canonical is on IRC on the clock
<nixternal> all i did was hang out on irc when i worked at at&t and microsoft..but ms had an issue with that obviously
<imbrandon> very often, just not in -motu mostly ( till tonight )
<ajmitch> isn't it great to have a celebrity in our midst?
<imbrandon> nixternal: shouldent you be in the SuSE chan ?
<nixternal> heh, probably
<nixternal> imbrandon: watch it, i will let cats out of the bag
<mnepton> nixternal: of course they did. any company that architects something like MS Comic Chat obviously has absolutely no understanding of IRC.
<nixternal> hahahaha
<nixternal> omg comic chat
<imbrandon> mnepton: hahaha
<mnepton> oyg.
<nixternal> that is so 286
<nixternal> ;p
<nixternal> that was rediculous
* mnepton appears as "Fun Guy 4000!"
<mnepton> *shudder*
* secretlondon ponders tcp throat pastilles
<nixternal> heh
<LaserJock> wahoo
<LaserJock> 3 reviews done
<ajmitch> well done
<imbrandon> secretlondon: wasent it you last night that was talking about second life ?
<secretlondon> yeah
<secretlondon> there is an alpha client
<imbrandon> check this : http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/20/0218221&from=rss
<secretlondon> i don't have good enough net to access it atm
<imbrandon> ingame worm
<secretlondon> there's been several self replicating objevcts that have taken the grid down
<imbrandon> yea, thats too funny
<LaserJock> ajmitch: and not a single one advocated ;-)
<imbrandon> there is a linux alpha client ?
<imbrandon> i might have to check that out sometime
<imbrandon> waste soem cpu cycles
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I'm impressed
<imbrandon> hrm someone want to post me a PS3 so i can load ubuntu on it and show the fc5 guys up
<secretlondon> yep - linux alpha client done by iccarus
<LaserJock> ajmitch: with my review or not advocating
* imbrandon just wants to see the cell processor at work
<ajmitch> LaserJock: both
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it probably won't be that impressive
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yea there was a ton of hype about it, but its got to be better than my xboxes running gentoo ( faster )
<secretlondon> imbrandon: that sounds not much different from the ones they've bene having for the last 12 months
<imbrandon> secretlondon: probably not
<ajmitch> imbrandon: maybe - a standard linux distro won't use much of the SPE power
<imbrandon> secretlondon: i just noticved them though
<ajmitch> since apps need to be written to use them
<secretlondon> they use linden scripting language
<imbrandon> ajmitch: true
<secretlondon> it's not that powerful
<imbrandon> but neither is my celeron 733 mhz xboxes
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> with only 64mb of ram
<imbrandon> its funny though in the fc5 video, when he is showing off the gnome desktop on the ps3, he said "you should be familiar with gnome if you run ubuntu on your PC" , hehehe
<imbrandon> thats totaly classsic
<elkbuntu> "Apparently, most people are willing to touch an object they've never seen before" .. well yeah, "Spinning gold rings" fall in to the 'OOH SHINY' category of things.
* realist wonders how any of you get any work done... (re: IRC'ing on the clock)
<imbrandon> realist: same way the rest of us do, multi task and backlogs :)
<imbrandon> support is mostly email and phone anyhow :)
<secretlondon> there have been loads of self-replicating objects - they started out as tubgirl things made by one of the something awful crowd
<secretlondon> second life goes through phases of mass hysteria which gets tiring
<realist> imbrandon: I wasn't necessarily referring to support, more like, chat impeding on constructive use of time ;p
<secretlondon> it interferes with their sim nesting, and the other crap that people do when they have the choice to do more interesting things
<nixternal> omg tubgirl
<nixternal> at one time in 1999, if you googled my old nick, it was tied in for spamming every efnet channel with that
<nixternal> and so the first thing for my nick in google was tubgirl
<secretlondon> :(
<secretlondon> nixternal: how did that happen?
<nixternal> i have no clue
<imbrandon> wow, now thats something to brag about , heh
<nixternal> i didn't do it
<nixternal> someone used my same nick and did it
<imbrandon> infact i think it was mnepton i was telling in UDS ( along with the other smokers ) about tubgirl
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> i never been on efnet for more than 2 minutes in my life
<Burgundavia> why was gaim-meanwhile dropped from edgy?
<secretlondon> wikipedia has a page on shock sites - you can find them all there
<nixternal> ya, tubgirl was the first rated x image rotten.com ever did in 1996
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: because it was incorporated in gaim source package, but not built due to main/universe split
<mnepton> imbrandon: yeah, we had a tubgirl convo. turns out it's *not* my mom. so there. :P
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: so how does an edgy user use meanwhile?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: they don't
<secretlondon> mnepton: it's your girlfriend?
<Burgundavia> oh
<secretlondon> or is that goatse?
<imbrandon> mnepton: lol
<nixternal> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubgirl
<mnepton> secretlondon: not any more.
<nixternal> heh, wikipedia has all of the oldies on there
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: it will probably get backported at some point i woudl assume
<nixternal> rotten.com and faces of death...2 things i couldn't look at w/o getting sick
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: right, that is lovely
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: there are binary only relegations
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: correct
<ajmitch> but libmeanwhile-dev is in universe
<ajmitch> & a source package in main cannot build-depend on anything in universe
<Burgundavia> a little frustrating, because ti is a regression
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> take it up with the friendly support people :)
<Burgundavia> did somebody just no write a MIR for libmeanwhile
<Burgundavia> ?
<ajmitch> probably not
<mnepton> we touch very, VERY little in Uni or Multi
<ajmitch> aw
<ajmitch> probably a good thing :)
<ajmitch> leave that for the MOTUs to break
<LaserJock> yeah, we don't want any crazy Canonical people touching our perfect breakage
<freeflying> anyone working on opensync-plugin-* stuff now?
<ajmitch> azeem owns them
<ajmitch> freeflying: you wanting them merged?
<freeflying> ajmitch: ya, and upgrade to the lastet
<ajmitch> hi Lure
<Lure> hi ajmitch & others
<mnepton> they called the club the "two headed cow." put your hate, clipped and distant of your love. rest assured this will not last. take a turn for the worse. the pilgrimage has gained momentum.
<imbrandon> there isnt much us ( as freenode staff ) can do about inter channel poltics and the ban, you will have to take that up with b0at and or the other channel ops, but we can and will keep a close eye on the channel and make sure it dosent go overboard
<imbrandon> gah wrong window, sorry
<imbrandon> i hate irssi at times
<freeflying> Lure: hi
<imbrandon> heya Lure
<ajmitch> poor imbrandon :)
<Lure> imbrandon: drop some channels and at least probability will decrease ;-)
<elkbuntu> yeah, as if you'd agree to be freenode staff...
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: huh ?
<imbrandon> Lure: hehe
<sivang> morning
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: i'm on "/stats p" atm so i get all the fun PM's
<imbrandon> sivang: moins
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, staffing freenode is not personally on my lists of 'things to make me go insane'
<elkbuntu> there's plenty of less painful ways to achieve that
<imbrandon> lol
<sivang> moin moin imbrandon
<imbrandon> its not actualy that bad
<imbrandon> alot less bad then when i agreed to try it
<realist> imbrandon: set up a generic cloak for me please :-)
<elkbuntu> hehe
<imbrandon> realist: is your name registered ?
<mnepton> @gline.target
<ubuntu-es> mnepton: Error: "gline.target" is not a valid command.
<elkbuntu> rofl
<mnepton> ubuntu-es: chupa mi culo.
<ubuntu-es> mnepton: Error: "chupa" is not a valid command.
<mnepton> tease.
<realist> imbrandon: yes
<imbrandon> realist: k one minute
<imbrandon> realist: Before we can make a cloak for you, please check that you have done all the steps at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup - especially the email and and alternate nick setup. It *is* important! Let me know when that's done?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: cut & paste? ;)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yea
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> too obvious
<Lure> ajmitch: so imnotbrandon ;-)
<imbrandon> i need to set an alias for it
<realist> imbrandon: I think that's all done
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> Cloak for [realist]  has been toggled [ON]  and changed to [unaffiliated/realist] 
<imbrandon> done
<realist> cheers ;-)
* ajmitch isn't special enough to have one of those cloaks :(
<imbrandon> ajmitch: you have a uber ubuntu one :)
<ajmitch> meh
<Lathiat> should be super/ajmitch
<imbrandon> i dont even have a staff cloak /yet/
* imbrandon is kinda glad
<ajmitch> you deserve one
<ajmitch> then you get all the groupies on irc
<crimsun> woo, groupies!
* ajmitch hands crimsun a pony
<crimsun> these dead ponies just ain't the same
<secretlondon> freenode groupies?
<Lathiat> ooh, dead pony jokes, thats low
<ajmitch> Lathiat: we were talking about pony sacrifices earlier
<ajmitch> secretlondon: don't you wish you had some?
<secretlondon> ajmitch: I guess so
<imbrandon> dont kill the ponies
* LaserJock hands out a round of golden ponies
<ajmitch> mean
<mnepton> PONY!
* mnepton bounces
<Burgundavia> mnepton: how good is your chipset coverage in your test lab?
<mnepton> Burgundavia: pretty good for Intel stuffs. and Sun.
<Burgundavia> mnepton: just wondering. Looking at the huge numbers of obsolete and old docs here
<mnepton> Burgundavia: "here" being ... ?
<Burgundavia> mnepton: the help wiki
<Burgundavia> minghua: ping
<minghua> Burgundavia: yes?
<Burgundavia> minghua: Japanese Input: ref : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JapaneseInputHowToInBreezy
<Burgundavia> how much of that is obsolete?
<imbrandon> rob: ping
<rob> imbrandon: pong
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> ajmitch: op up for a sec please, then un op
<imbrandon> ...
* ajmitch didn't do it!
<imbrandon> hrm
<rob> ok, well I cannot op up in here without my staff access either
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ajmitch]  by ChanServ
<imbrandon> strange, ok
<minghua> Burgundavia: not really obsolete, however: (1) packages not in main, while we have another Japanese input method in main; (2) a lot of the suggestions are probably not the best ones
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ajmitch]  by ajmitch
<imbrandon> ahh there it go's
<ajmitch> imbrandon: happy?
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> thanks
<minghua> Burgundavia: but I don't use uim myself to give a more educated opinion
<ajmitch> what did it do?
<rob> hmm what the?
<Burgundavia> minghua: is there somebody I could bully into rewriting that?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: trying to fix the access rights a bit
<imbrandon> rob: see?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ok..
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'm happy :)
<minghua> Burgundavia: other than me?  I'm afraid no, at least I am not aware of
* minghua hides
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o imbrandon]  by ChanServ
* ajmitch hides
<imbrandon> hrm now i cant deop
<ajmitch> heh
<enyc> Im having a bizarre bug with ubuntu-dapper (on amd64-server) with  "qpsmtpd" package. (an SMTPD listener that injects mail into MTAs or Maildir, written in perl) -- On system reboot, the needed /var/run/qpsmtpd directory seems to vanish and I have to add 2 lines to mkdir/chown /var/run/qpsmtpd in the init script !  ?is anybody here familiar with this sort of problem?
<ajmitch>  /deop imbrandon
<crimsun> you can't deop yourself?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o imbrandon]  by imbrandon
<rob> imbrandon: ok, leave it with me
<imbrandon> ahh there we go
<imbrandon> rob: thanks
<ajmitch> enyc: file a bug if it's not already there
<ajmitch> if there's a bug, attach a patch
<enyc> ajmitch: fair enough... is something set to clear /var/run  on ubuntu-boot that doesn't happen in debian?
<crimsun> /var/run is tmpfs
<crimsun> it always goes away
<minghua> that /var/run problem is well known
<minghua> debian-devel list had a long discussion a few days ago
<enyc> I see I see
<enyc> so packages that include a /var/run/??? dir  as part of the post-install of the .deb wll work.... but not after reboot
<enyc> minghua: hrrm what conclusions/decisions were made about that then?
<crimsun> the correct fix is to add the requisite stanzas to debian/{foo.,}init
<crimsun> (for Ubuntu, that is)
<minghua> enyc: I remember one way is to check and make the directory in the /etc/init.d/ script
<enyc> crimsun: I see, wihch then puts them in the init.d scrupt
<lotusleaf> SABDFL has a posse poster released for download: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=296742
<minghua> enyc: I don't really remember, I am not familiar with daemon things
<enyc> I think I shall look at adifferent ubuntu package that also has a dir in /var/run ;-)
<enyc> thankyou all ;-)
<crimsun> enyc: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-January/000048.html
<enyc> I shall post bugreport whin I have patched it  (or failed to patch it)
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> room dies
<pygi> imbrandon: nah :P
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, i could try start it back up again... :
<imbrandon> nah
<elkbuntu> but it was so fun!
* mnepton wriggles erotically
<elkbuntu> oh HELL no
* mnepton wriggles erotically in elkbuntu's sleeping bag
<elkbuntu> thank goodness im not in it
<pygi> lol
<mnepton> nice work controlling that gag reflex.
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> Kind of interesting getting into a rolled up sleeping bag, too.
<azeem> freeflying: I'll update the opensync plugins in Debian once etch releases and will then sync them over, unless somebody else takes action first
* StevenK wonders.
<StevenK> If a package has been uploaded to Debian as native, should I fix it to not be in the merge to Ubuntu if it isn't supposed to be...
<imbrandon> StevenK: huh ?
<crimsun> StevenK: that's really up to you.
<crimsun> personally I tend to try and avoid deltas, but if you feel correctness is more important, then go for it
<StevenK> Meh, don't care enough.
<freeflying> azeem: why no libopensync-plugins-palm in ubuntu?
<mnepton> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=297145806&size=l
<mnepton> fabbione, silbs, mnep, sabdfl.
<imbrandon> mnepton: was that at AH ?
<mnepton> aye
* mnepton = scofflaw
<mnepton> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=291033538&size=l
<azeem> freeflying: somebody synced them recently and maybe forgot, I haven't looked at opensync in Ubuntu since it was clear 0.19 wouldn't make it into edgy
<xerxas> Hi all !
<xerxas> Hi
<Hobbsee> heya
<mnepton> arr.
* Hobbsee attacks mnepton with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   - ARRR!!!!!
<sivang> mnepton: on the night shift again? :)
<mnepton> sivang: never been off it. just interrupted for UDS and AH
<sivang> mnepton: ah, I see, already back on Quebec ?
<sivang> mnepton: (I didn't know folks could claim the night shift indefintely ;))
* mnepton puts out one of Hobbsee's eyes and severs a hand, replacing it with a hook
* Hobbsee attacks mnepton with her hooked hand, AND her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<mnepton> sivang: i'm Canonical's token vampire.
* mnepton falls in love with Hobbsee's buried booty and poop deck
<sivang> hahah
<Hobbsee> er....
* sivang wonders what is a poop deck
<mnepton> arr! i love ya, lass! but i'm married t'd'sea! yar.
<sivang> HAHA
<sivang> mnepton: dude sounds like you could use some compnay there on the graveyard shift
<sivang> mnepton: how busy can it get at nights?
* Hobbsee makes mnepton WALK THE PLANK for such a comment
<Hobbsee> ARRR!
<mnepton> sivang: busy enough
<mnepton> Hobbsee: you're just making it worse. women in pirate garb are a personal weakness. arr.
<Hobbsee> oh dear.
<sivang> Hobbsee: don't encourage him :)
<sivang> Hobbsee: he's getting out of hand
<sivang> s/hand/control/
<Hobbsee> sivang: so it seems.  oh dear is all i can say.
<sivang> hehe
<Hobbsee> good thing i dont work for canonical.
<sivang> Hobbsee: I'm sure it's all </jokes> don't take him seriously he's a really nice guy , trust me
<mnepton> lies!
* mnepton is a self-important FLOSS geek with no sense of humor and the social skills of a rabid wolverine
<mnepton> (and let's not get into my personal hygiene. or lack thereof.)
<Hobbsee> mnepton: you should have been here on talk like a pirate day.
* Hobbsee suspects mnepton would have enjoyed that
<mnepton> Hobbsee: by request of the world's population i was not allowed on the Interblag on TLAPD
<mnepton> :/
<Hobbsee> TLAPD?
<Hobbsee> oh right
<Hobbsee> hah
<fernando> moin
<bhale> what is mario danic's irc name
<siretart> bhale: pygi, IIRC
<bhale> right
<bhale> you cannot comment on his blog w/o making an account
* StevenK wishes to finish this after hours support thing and go to bed.
<gnomefreak> who is a motu reviewer?
<sivang> bhale: which post do you wish to comment on?
<giskard> sivang, ping
<sivang> giskard: pong
<sivang> giskard: although I have very bad ntwork, could disconnect without warning
<giskard> sivang, what about libnotify/notification daemon?
<sivang> giskard: looks good, should upload today
<sivang> giskard: have you uploaded 0.3.6 to debian?
<giskard> sivang, you are building it against libgtk2.10?
<giskard> (libnotify)
<giskard> sivang, no :(
<giskard> sivang, g-p-m need 0.4.3 (built with gtk2.10 support) so i'm waiting you ;)
<sivang> giskard: so you need libnotify to be rebuilt against libtk2.0 ?
<giskard> sivang, yes, because of this
<sivang> giskard: right, seems like a simple sync, I'll ping you when it's done
<slytherin> giskard: ping.
<giskard> notification.h:90:#if GTK_CHECK_VERSION(2, 9, 2)
<giskard> sivang, for the notify_notification_new_with_status_icon()
<giskard> slytherin, :)
<slytherin> giskard: I pinged you because we both are on bluetooth team. I recently made packages for the vfs module developed by James. I am not a MOTU. SO I wanted to know if anyone can take over from me and include these packages for feisty.
<ogra> giskard, libnotify is a manual merge listed on MOM ... slomo seems to be responsible for it
<giskard> slytherin, yeah :) could you point me to the sources + diff + dsc
<giskard> ogra, right, but afaik sivang is working on it. if you wait a sec i will point you to mai diff dsc
* giskard want a "ubuntu" place where store this kind of stuff
<slytherin> giskard: I haven't uploaded them anywhere. I just added binary packages on wiki. I will do that in my night. Also the packages are built from svn and bzr branch. So can't really point to sources.
<giskard> slytherin, orig.tar.gz + package.diff.gz and package.dsc :)
<slytherin> giskard: I will try to get original sources. Rest of the files I will upload somewhere in my night. Currently in office working on win2K
<giskard> :(
<slytherin> giskard: Meanwhile, you can try the packages and provide me feedback. Check 'Edgy+1' section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bluetooth/TODO
<giskard> oki!
<giskard> i will try it
<xerxas> giskard,  Hi !
<xerxas> do you know if there's already some stuff to do with telepathy for feisty ?
<giskard> xerxas, i guess we have already pushed all the packages in feisty, also t-sharp
<xerxas> t-sharp ?
<xerxas> is that c sharp telepathy bindings ?
<giskard> yeah
<gnomefreak> anyone here on the ubuntu-science team that has a few minutes
<xerxas> Package libboost-thread-dev is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<xerxas> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<xerxas> is only available from another source
<xerxas> E: Package libboost-thread-dev has no installation candidate
<xerxas> E: Could not satisfy build-dependency.
<xerxas> E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
<xerxas> this is in pbuilder, but I can install it on a feisty
<xerxas> I have this in my pbuilderrc: COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
<xerxas> but I have created my pbuilder before changing that
<xerxas> should I update, or recreate my pbuilder chroot to allow multiverse packages ?
<xerxas> (I think that libboost-thread-dev is in multiverse )
<slytherin> xerxas: Try 'pbuilder update --override-config once'
<xerxas> slytherin,  what is it supposed to do ?
<xerxas> change the sources.list within the chroot ?
<xerxas> (slytherin, thanks)
<slytherin> xerxas: Yes. Because I had forgot the universe component and just doing a pbuilder update didn't help. Someone on this channel told me about that option
<xerxas> slytherin,  ok ! great !
<geser> xerxas: if this doesn't work try 'pbuilder update --overwrite-config --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu feisty universe multiverse" '
<geser> I hope I got the syntax right
<xerxas> geser,  thank
<xerxas> s
<xerxas> slytherin,  geser , first solution works !
<xerxas> thanks all !
<slomo_> ogra, giskard: sivang is merging it
<ogra> k
<giskard> slomo_, yes i know ;)
<slomo_> ok ;)
<scotth> I'm bored, is there anything quick that someone who is bored might be able to knock out quickly?
<zul> scotth: you might want to try triaging bugs in launchpad
<fowlduck> scotth, www.digg.com = time waster of the century
<scotth> I'm quite familiar with digg, I just felt like being useful today... funny that...
<scotth> is there any docs on the proper way to triage bugs?
<zul> yep check the wiki
<scotth> thanks
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bhale> sivang: regarding beagle..
<bhale> sivang: i will wait for him on irc
<giskard> hello bhale
<bhale> hi gis
<Burgwork> http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20061120
<Burgwork> if somebody wants to write a reponse, we can fridge it
<hub> be my guest
<hub> write it
<Burgwork> joejaxx: you have been added to DW
<joejaxx> i found that out early this morning :)
<joejaxx> laserjoc k told me
<Burgwork> there are 3 Ubuntu derivs added to the list on DW this week
<nixternal> Burgwork: there are 2 more ubuntu based distros in the waiting list as well
<Burgwork> nixternal: yep, saw that
<nixternal> i figured the multimedia one would have already been there..guess not
<nixternal> actually, just 1, the kids without is a program similar to free geek
<zul> it seems to me that everyone and their mothers have a derived distro
<thom> that was kinda the point
<zul> heh didnt think it that way
<nixternal> i am developing Wooohoooobuntu
<giskard> ogra, ping
<bhale> !seen pygi
<ubotu> I last saw pygi (n=mario@83-131-5-108.adsl.net.t-com.hr) 8h 17m 41s ago, quiting: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
<chantrAw_> hi, i'm having trouble signing a package with pbuilder :s
<chantra> I've tried pbuilder build xxxx.dsc --debbuildopts  -kmykey , but it did not seem to work :s
<chantra> sorry, I should sign using debuild :s
<enyc> hrrm I think I may have done omething silly rceating a bug in launchpad whotnot
<enyc> I was trying te create a bug about dapper and qpsmtpd
<enyc> ?how do I see all the bugs I have created?
<slytherin> enyc: go to your profile, cleck Bugs in sidebar and then reported
<teledyn_> hello, is there a baseline release of debian that packages can be built against to be usable/includable in ubuntu?
<enyc> anyway... https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/qpsmtpd/+bug/72602
<enyc> is there...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72602 in qpsmtpd "qpsmtpd fails after reboot due to /var/run/qpsmtpd lost by tmpfs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<enyc> but I dont know howto tag that for daaaper or universe  or who to 'assign' the bug to
<crimsun> teledyn_: no, build against Ubuntu.
<crimsun> enyc: do not assign to anyone unless you have his/her express permission.
<teledyn_> crimsun: if you want a package to be usable against debian and multiple debian-derived distros, would you need to build many packages then?  too bad you can't build just one
<seaLne> they would need to be built for each however there might be very little changed in the source package apart from the distro to build for depending on the package
<bluefoxicy> oprofile is still broken.
<bluefoxicy> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/oprofile/+bug/69455  Fix released in debian.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 69455 in oprofile "bashism in oprofile's opcontrol script prevents user from setting any events" [Unknown,Fix released] 
<teledyn_> seaLne: given that feisty fawn isn't really a working distro yet, how would you build packages for it?  or would you wait?
<teledyn_> seaLne: or would stuff in sid automatically at some point get included in it?
<seaLne> using pbuilder
<crimsun> bluefoxicy: I fixed that a while ago
<crimsun> [did you check edgy-proposed]  ?
<bluefoxicy> nope
<bluefoxicy> proposed huh?
<crimsun> right.
<seaLne> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<crimsun> teledyn_: yes.
<teledyn_> ah very cool    i used to build stuff for different releases in chroots
<crimsun> teledyn_: (yes referring to generating multiple binary packages)
<teledyn_> thanks guys
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: you have a minute?
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: depends, what's up?
<gnomefreak> how much do you know about xdrawchem?
<gnomefreak> xdrawcehm crashes on edgy but not on feisty  same version
<LaserJock> no
<azeem> gnomefreak: on startup?
<LaserJock> it's not an edgy vs. feisty thing
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> when you use the text tool
<gnomefreak> azeem: no on the text part of it
<gnomefreak> damn hes good
<LaserJock> but it only happens for some people
<gnomefreak> lol
<LaserJock> the bug author said it's because of an undeclared variable
<LaserJock> so that for some people it's True and for some it's False
* gnomefreak not highly sure of that
<LaserJock> or something like that
<gnomefreak> the varibles are hardcoded in source arnt they?
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure how it would work
<LaserJock> I would *think* at runtime it would decide what it was
<azeem> what's the bugnumber?
<gnomefreak> thats a hard one let me see if i hav eit
<gnomefreak> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xdrawchem/+bug/71851
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71851 in xdrawchem "the program was closed unexpectedly" [Unknown,Unknown] 
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: but I have tested it on Edgy and it worked for me
<gnomefreak> i dont have anything but a feisty pc atm :(
<gnomefreak> yes i know bad bad bad
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> morning ajmitch
<LaserJock> ok, so I tried it on another edgy machine and it crashed
<LaserJock> so for 2 edgy machines I have, 1 crashes and 1 doesn't :-)
<zul> hey ajmitch
<gnomefreak> thats weird
<gnomefreak> theres got to be more than a varible issue than IMO
<pygi> hey all
<cbx33> LaserJock, want me to give it  ago
<LaserJock> cbx33: yeah, just install xdrawchem on edgy or feisty machines
<cbx33> how bad a crash?
<LaserJock> and hit the text tool (little T on the left bar) and try to write something
<LaserJock> it segfalts or something, brings up bug buddy for me
<cbx33> ok
<LaserJock> won't roast your system or anything like that
<cbx33> works fine here
<cbx33> ok, so archs anyone?
<cbx33> I'm i386 here
<cbx33> LaserJock, gnomefreak ?
<LaserJock> i386 on all
<LaserJock> cbx33: do you have any other edgy machines?
<cbx33> grog...yes I do
<cbx33> lemme grab the laptop
<cbx33> ok same
<cbx33> works fine
<cbx33> reckon it's a pacakge causing the issue?
<LaserJock> I really doubt it
<gnomefreak> he says his fix fixed it iirc
<sivang> bhale: you pinged me?
<bhale> sivang: no.
<rvalles> automake: configure.ac: installing `[.] /config.sub'; cannot run `libtoolize': No such file or directory
<rvalles> etc
<rvalles> where's libtoolize?
<sivang> bhale: ah, I saw something "I'll wait for him on IRC" something, wasn't sure if it was addressed to me
<bhale> it was answering your qwuestion
<bhale> forget it
<bhale> pygi: dont install beagle as a depend/suggest/etc please
<sivang> bhale: ah, about beagle providing info about sizes/dir structs?
<bhale> no
<bhale> that was days ago
<pygi> bhale: lol ^_^
<bhale> please ask upstream
<pygi> hey sivang btw. ^_^
<pygi> bhale: you are talking to me to ask upstream?:P
<bhale> pygi: no.
<pygi> ok then :)))
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: I can try his patch on my machine that crashes
<sivang> bhale: so, you wanted to tell me something valuable, please tell me what is was as I am not following :)
<bhale> sigh
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: i would say if it works great but now will the people without the problem now get crashes :(
<bhale> 07:07 #ubuntu-motu: < sivang> bhale: which post do you wish to comment on?
<bhale> then, I answered
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: we'll just have to find out
<pygi> ping sivang :P
<bhale> yawn
<gnomefreak> hmmmm his debdiff is for feisty but he says the crash happens on edgy
<gnomefreak> does that matter?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I think his assumption is that it'll happen on both
<LaserJock> as it's the same source
<gnomefreak> ah
<sivang> pygi: pong
<sivang> bhale: ah, right noted, thanks
<sivang> bhale: sorry for being dumb about it
<palski> gnomefreak: Oh, you are talkin about this unassigned variable thing :)
<palski> hmm, I didn't find any good reference about this issue but here's something at least: http://archives.devshed.com/forums/windows-107/unassigned-local-variable-2055145.html
<LaserJock> palski: I kinda understand that, but I still find it odd
<LaserJock> wouldn't it randomly crash on the same computer?
<palski> LaserJock: that is actually little odd to me too :) And I have no good explanation, for me it crashes on edgy everytime I try
<nixternal> jeesh, kramer opened mouth, inserted foot, and actually sunk the rest of what career he had left i see
<LaserJock> palski: I have one edgy machine that does and one that doesn't
<nixternal> ok, wrong channel, but hey...*goes to #chiglug on oftc*
<LaserJock> nixternal: oohhkay
<nixternal> heh, it's all over the news today
<zul> nixternal: yeah bunch of racist crap
<nixternal> ya, he totally jumped off the deepend there
<LaserJock> interesting how all the people in Seinfeld kinda did that
<Simon80> link?
<Simon80> anybody? link?
<nixternal> link to what?
<Simon80> kramer embarrassing himself
<nixternal> if it is kramer, google kramer will provide a billion of them
<nixternal> youtube has posted the rated pg version of it with the bleeps
<Simon80> lol, Google: Kramer edition
<Simon80> dammit, google tor lockout
<Simon80> *restarts tor*
<Simon80> not very good results :(
<Simon80> can someone just link? lol
<Simon80> I'm still trying!
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> ty ty
<Simon80> that's so awkward to be at in person
<nixternal> heh
<Simon80> I wouldn't say epithets, more like epithet, lol
<Adri2000> Seveas: is the feisty-changes rss feed broken?
<Seveas> not that I know of
<Seveas> hmm, last mail 18/11
<Seveas> will check
<Adri2000> ok
<Seveas> Adri2000, ah, mailserver problem
<Seveas> Adri2000, fixed
<Adri2000> cool, thanks
<Seveas> thanks for notifying me
<Adri2000> np :)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-21
<rmjb> "description needs to be wrapped to less then 80 characters wide"
<rmjb> where is there a guide or descriptions in control files?
<rmjb> found it, the Debian New Maintainers Guide...
<rmjb> wasn't in the Ubuntu packager's guide or the Debian Policy
<pygi> hey se
<pygi> secretlondon:
<secretlondon> hi
<LaserJock> rmjb: it wasn't in the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<LaserJock> ?
<rmjb> nah, the packaging guide links to a style doc on descriptions, but that doesn't mention it either I think
<rmjb> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html search for Description:
<kkubasik> hey, kinda a random question, but is docs.ubuntu.com written in docbook?
<LaserJock> kkubasik: well, the docs are
<LaserJock> they get built into HTML and pdf from docbook
<kkubasik> that's what I thought, but I didn't know if docs.ubuntu.com was a weird wiki hybrid
<LaserJock> no
<kkubasik> you wouldn't happen to know what editor they use would you?
<LaserJock> help.ubuntu.com has both the docs and a wiki
<LaserJock> kkubasik: gedit, emacs, vim
<kkubasik> it seems to be impossible to track a stable one down
* kkubasik sighs
<LaserJock> kkubasik: everything chokes on our docbook
<kkubasik> what version?
<kkubasik> 4.2.1?
<kkubasik> I know that screwed some stuff up pretty bad
<kkubasik> that's why gnome stopped using it
<secretlondon> the wiki used is moinmoin which isn't particularly brilliant imo, but then i'm used to mediawiki
<LaserJock> we like moinmoin a fair bit (although we really need an upgrade)
<LaserJock> but there are definitely advantages to mediawiki
<LaserJock> kkubasik: what version of what?
<kkubasik> the docbook dtd
<LaserJock> oh, 4.3
<LaserJock> we had a Google Summer of Code project this summer for a moinmoin -> docbook converter
<LaserJock> sounds like it'll make it much easier for people to work on docs on the wiki and then later have somebody docbookize it
<secretlondon> there is a mediwiki ->doc book converter afaik
<nixternal> ya, but it is horrible..i have been using it for some kde docs
<nixternal> it places a bunch of $$$ and ### throughout the doc for you to go through and try to destinguish what it is supposed to be
<secretlondon> moin moin feels like wiki software of about 5 years ago - like usemod with it's camelcase etc
<nixternal> i would love a good docbook2wiki, or docbook2txt
<nixternal> lol secretlondon, it does
<nixternal> mediawiki has endless amounts of things you can do with it
<LaserJock> docbook2txt is easy
<LaserJock> I'm partial to moinmoin myself
<nixternal> LaserJock: link me to a good docbook2txt script
<LaserJock> but mostly because it's great for a personal/small setup
<LaserJock> nixternal: it's called, sudo apt-get install xmlto
<PriceChild> Hey
<PriceChild> can't figure out where ${shlibs:Depends} pulls dependencies from?
<ajmitch> PriceChild: dh_shlibdeps
<ajmitch> which calls dpkg-shlibdeps
<pygi> PriceChild: remind me not to ask for opinions on forums anymore, lol ^_^
<PriceChild> pygi: how come?
<pygi> PriceChild: I've got all opinions that they I have to implement tracker :P
<PriceChild> oh yeah :)
<PriceChild> sorry :)
<PriceChild> want me to call it to a close?
<pygi> PriceChild: nah, no need, dont worry
<PriceChild> ok
<PriceChild> if you need anything just ask :)
<PriceChild> ok so ${shlibs:Depends} just pulls up a basically "standard" list of dependencies?
<secretlondon> i think i'm going to look at frostwire to see if i can package it rather than doing bugs tonight
<LaserJock> pygi: you have to be very clear about the question you ask :-)
<pygi> LaserJock: I was! :P
<LaserJock> well, you didn't say from the beginning that tracker wasn't an option
<pygi> heh, never imagined I have to explicitly state that
<pygi> I'm not a forum guy
* ajmitch wishes that every man & his dog didn't see the need to create a poll on the forums
<PriceChild> I did make a post about tracker not being an option
<PriceChild> and highlighted it
<PriceChild> and put it in red
<PriceChild> :(
* secretlondon avoids the forums
<PriceChild> Just made yet another upload of xvidcap... I'm getting there :)
* LaserJock runs to the forums and starts a "No more polls?" poll :-)
* PriceChild smirks
<PriceChild> not even logged in laser.... tut utt
<LaserJock> I'm so very glad they made the "Education and Science subforum"
<LaserJock> now I can go to just one place and ignore the rest
<crimsun> I'm doing an horrific job of following the forum
<crimsun> a horrific, even
<crimsun> that's probably where most of the issues that are relevant to me are posted
<LaserJock> well, the do a horrific job of following you so you're even
<LaserJock> s/the/they/
<ajmitch> crimsun: it's too depressing to bother
<ajmitch> even for a raging MOTU-holic like LaserJock
<LaserJock> the feisty section is indeed depressing
<PriceChild> I've only just realised how useful it is to subscribe to all posts i participate in
<pygi> k, night
<LaserJock> but I really like my topical subforum
<LaserJock> they have brought up good apps to package
<zul> meh..forums..
<PriceChild> no email :)
<LaserJock> I think having a topical subforum really helps
<LaserJock> it might be just in my case though
<crimsun> true, a mere mortal couldn't hope to keep up
* secretlondon shudders at the repositories sub forum
<PriceChild> I can't remember being in the repos subforum
* ajmitch should put an experimental samba 3.0.24 into a repository for people to use
<PriceChild> at the end of the day guys... in your profile you can turn off any subforum you want
<PriceChild> Just follow what you want to
<LaserJock> ajmitch: have it pop up a "I seeee you!" dialog every 5 min. :-)
<ajmitch> PriceChild: that would require me to just avoid the forums altogether
<ajmitch> LaserJock: uhh...
<PriceChild> I have the whole LoCo team bit turned off for example
<PriceChild> they're self moderated, i only go there if soemone reports a post
<PriceChild> (LoCo mods can't wield the spam-ban-hammer for example)
<PriceChild> I should stop trying to defend the forums... Your opinions are never going to change lol...
<LaserJock> PriceChild: don't worry, they're just a bunch of cynical old farts
<bhale> that is probably why I am not talking ;)
<PriceChild> :)
<PriceChild> Well the day i stop loving UF is the day we revolt against ubuntugeek
<ajmitch> hello bhale
<bhale> hi andrew
<crimsun> I love the forum [because I rarely visit] .
<PriceChild> ha ha :)
<LaserJock> PriceChild: I thought that already happened ;-)
<PriceChild> LaserJock: nope... Its been agreed he shall be sabdffl
<secretlondon> ubuntugeek=ryan troy?
<PriceChild> (there's a silent "of" in there)
<PriceChild> and that's not an official title....
<PriceChild> secretlondon: correct
<ajmitch> PriceChild: no, but it's close enough to the truth
<PriceChild> hopefully :)
<PriceChild> and please don't tell me you've got something against ryan.... :P
<LaserJock> hah
* ajmitch will refrain from commenting further
<LaserJock> I was going to say things might pick up if he were gone
<PriceChild> :(
<LaserJock> but well, I guess that won't happen
<PriceChild> I wanna hear your opinion....
<PriceChild> explain :)
<PriceChild> please
<crimsun> he's permitted to have an ego. If he takes his ego anywhere near the actual repo, he'll find out very quickly not to.
<LaserJock> well, IMO, he doesn't care about anything but his own power and control
<PriceChild> i hate politics :)
<LaserJock> and cares basically nothing for the Ubuntu Code of Conduct or community
<PriceChild> :(
<crimsun> call it politics if you wish. Some of us call it "being civil."
<PriceChild> he he
<PriceChild> I'm not gonna argue with any of this... I really wanna stay "in the middle" through all of this
<PriceChild> even though its obvious i sway to one side...
<fernando> hi all
<PriceChild> hi
<slavik> are packages built by checkinstall acceptable?
<crimsun> absolutely not.
<PriceChild> he he
<slavik> :(
<bhale> what is worse is sabdfl pandering to him
<zul> hell no
<bhale> for an indefinate period
<LaserJock> bhale: yep
<secretlondon> bhale: sabdfl is a sharp cookie, he doesn't want him anti
<crimsun> I concur, the community is crucial.
<PriceChild> slavik: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<slavik> well, I have problems compiling anjuta 2.0.2 ... there is a problem with some glade plugin code and there is no valgrind-dev package (valgrind 3.2.1 from their site doesn't compile)
<LaserJock> I just don't see why Ryan = forums
<LaserJock> the forums is a community
<LaserJock> it's just run by a dictator and not of the benevolent kind
<crimsun> slavik: why a valgrind-dev?
<slavik> crimsun: that is what is required to build the anjuta valgrind plugin ...
<slavik> anjuta2
<slavik> LaserJock: I for one welcome our new <insert some weird type> overlords. :)
<crimsun> LaserJock: this is my opinion, of course, but I think it's fine for him to "be dictator" [there] . If he steps in here, he'll learn very quickly that that approach will earn him enemies faster than baby jesus cried foul with a certain warty wall.
<LaserJock> crimsun: :-)
<crimsun> slavik: which specific files are necessary? (I haven't checked the anjuta build infrastructure)
<slavik> umm, I am not exactly sure what you are asking ...
<ajmitch> crimsun: creative analogies
<crimsun> slavik: what files is the 'valgrind' package missing?
<slavik> crimsun: the source code I am guessing, the anjuta configure script is not very verbose on it since it is an optional plugin
<crimsun> slavik: anything in config.log?
<slavik> error from valgrind: undefined reference to `__stack_chk_fail' a linking error?
<crimsun> hmm, isn't that stack-protector?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> build with -fno-stack-protector & it should all be happy
<crimsun> in other words, is the -fno-stack-protector necessary?
<slavik> I couldn't tell you, I doubt get to learn cool stuff in college :(
<crimsun> right
<ajmitch> crimsun: usually building with -fno-stack-protector makes the bad erros go away
<slavik> how would I create a -dev package from source?
<bhale> ssp used to be called __guard_*
<bhale> but that was ages ago
<crimsun> slavik: it has nothing to do with -dev
<bhale> before gcc mainline
<slavik> so, what is -dev?
<bhale> im too old to be useful
<bhale> slavik: in what context?
<slavik> bhale: valgrind
<rmjb> just did up a man page, is there a quick way to test it?
<mr_pouit> nroff -man youmanpage.1 | less
<rmjb> thanks!
<slavik> can I add the -fno-stack-protector to the configure script?
<minghua> man -l manpage.1 is probably easier
<crimsun> slavik: certainly.
<crimsun> slavik: and by "add" I presume you mean "pass"
<slavik> yes
<slavik> just as a regular option?
<crimsun> (just append it to C{,XX}FLAGS)
<slavik> after configure?
<crimsun> CFLAGS=bah CXXFLAGS=blah ./configure [..] 
<slavik> ahh, ty
<crimsun> (modify debian/rules)
<slavik> crimsun: is that the same as puttin a semicolon between the 3?
<crimsun> slavik: sorry, what 3?
<slavik> that you wrote 4 lines ago
<slavik> the CFLAGS
<slavik> 'VAR=val; command' vs. 'VAR=val command'
<slavik> what is the difference?
<crimsun> no, it's not the same.
<crimsun> you want ./configure to inherit the $CFLAGS and $CXXFLAGS values
<slavik> but what if I set them for the current shell does it look for them?
<crimsun> yes, ./configure should
<crimsun> (why aren't you using a pbuilder?)
<slavik> umm ... never heard of it
<slavik> in valgrind case, is this correct? 'CFLAGS=-fno-stack-protector CXXFLAGS=-fno-stack-protector ./configure' ???
<crimsun> checkinstall causes no small amount of pain. Please don't inflict it on us. :)
<slavik> k
<crimsun> slavik: that would clobber any previous values for C{,XX}FLAGS
<slavik> I see
<slavik> creating a pbuilder environment ...
<slavik> so ... on with compiling :)
<lifeless> Riddell: around ?
<ajmitch> StevenK: got any notification of approval for wlassistant yet?
<rmjb> I'll be the first... Hobbsee!!!
<ajmitch> darn
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
* Hobbsee waves
<Hobbsee> hey rmjb
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!
<rmjb> a lot of you guys "know" each other from UDSes and so on?
<slavik> those never happen in NYC :(
<secretlondon> Hobbsee!
<fernando> hi Hobbsee
<secretlondon> rmjb: I've never met anyone from ubuntu in the flesh
<Hobbsee> hey secretlondon, fernando
<ajmitch> rmjb: UDS, LCA, or otherwise
<ajmitch> or frequently just irc
<hub> UBZ for me
* rmjb looks up LCA
<hub> just because I was tere
<hub> rmjb: Linux Conf Australia
<rmjb> oh
<slavik> hmm, someone needs to build anjuta2 with all plugins and put 1.2.4 back ...
<PriceChild> night all
<rmjb> is debian/changelog the only place the distro's version is listed?
<fernando> hi PriceChild
* secretlondon didn't realise the thing she'd decided to package was written in java..
<rmjb> g'night PriceChild
<PriceChild> hi fernando
<secretlondon> night pricechild
<rmjb> secretlondon: what is it?
<PriceChild> bye fernando
<secretlondon> rmjb: I'm poking at frostwire
<LaserJock> secretlondon: go get some soap and wash out your pbuider
<secretlondon> it needs doing
<fernando> somebody using kopete + telepathy?
<secretlondon> i need to work out how to get it out of subversion first
<rmjb> secretlondon: I've found putting java-gcj-compat-dev as a dependency on my java package provided EVERYTHING I needed, except for swt which was specific
<StevenK> ajmitch: Yup. Thanks a lot.
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> ping me in a week or so once it need to go to -updates
<StevenK> ajmitch: Aye.
* mikhail^ is away: eating.
<joejaxx> ajmitch: 36  Fluxbuntu  203^   on the 7 day stats
* secretlondon has found herself an easie rprogram to package before moving onto frostwire
<joejaxx> Simon80_: :)
<joejaxx> secretlondon: * :)
<Hobbsee> heh.  smart
<StevenK> Is it called Linda?
<ajmitch> sigh. distrowatch 'stats'
<joejaxx> ajmitch: haha yeah
<secretlondon> we already have linda
<joejaxx> that 36 is probably supposed to be 360
<StevenK> secretlondon: I know, I wrote it. :-)
<secretlondon> :)
<joejaxx> StevenK: really?
<ajmitch> and the world hasn't been the same since
<joejaxx> StevenK: i did not know that
<joejaxx> when did you write it?
<StevenK> Oh damn, now what have I done.
* Lathiat smirks
<Hobbsee> haha
<ajmitch> now the StevenK fanboys come out
<Hobbsee> StevenK: FIX ALL THE BUGS!  KTHNKSBYE!
<StevenK> I don't deserve fanboys. :-(
* crimsun BOUNCES for linda
<joejaxx> LOl
<joejaxx> who wrote lintian?
<crimsun> sameperson
<StevenK> Many many people
<StevenK> dark started it, if I recall.
<crimsun> we just tag StevenK with it
<joejaxx> ah ok :)
<Lathiat> crimsun: along with an "its all your fault" footer? :)
<crimsun> :p
<crimsun> reminds me of keybuk's comment at TB when StevenK was affirmed as MOTU
<StevenK> crimsun: Which?
<crimsun> the one(s) regarding lintian
<crimsun> (how much he loves you, etc.)
<joejaxx> LOL
<StevenK> I remember Keybuk saying "Yeah, don't do that again."
<rendhalver> mornin'
<joejaxx> Good Morning (GMT -5)
<rendhalver> i got some spare time and was curious about a few things
<rendhalver> like if there is a perl dev team for ubuntu
<rendhalver> i was a perl dev for gentoo a while back and would like to help out with perl in ubuntu if help is needed
<secretlondon> help is always needed
<rendhalver> spiffy
<rendhalver> i noticed there is a perl team in launchpad. i am guessing that would be a good place to start?
<lastnode> rendhalver, one thing you could do is to look through the buglist for perl apps, and issue fixes, for a start that is
<lastnode> rendhalver, or that, yes
<rendhalver> or both :)
<joejaxx> wow finally
<joejaxx> i can have my 7 rows of tabs back in firefox
* joejaxx dances the secret kernel dance
* joejaxx dances some more
<joejaxx> man i am SO happy it is not even funny
<joejaxx> firefox two and its one row of tabs bah
<rmjb> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, mplayer-nogui | mplayer, mencoder
<rmjb> will install mplayer-nogui by default
<rmjb> but if the user has mplayer the dep will be statisfied
<rmjb> am I right?
<Lathiat> joejaxx: ... 7 rows? ;p
<joejaxx> Lathiat: yes
<joejaxx> i normally have an average of 100 firefox tabs open
<Lathiat> sheesh
<Lathiat> why on earth do you need that many? ;p
<joejaxx> monitoring :)
<Lathiat> like i've been knwon to have 30-40 when doing something specific but not all the time ;p
<Lathiat> monitoring?
<joejaxx> yes
<Lathiat> of?
<fernando> joejaxx: already exists bookmark feature =) you can to use it
<joejaxx> email, different sites, my sites (i have over 25 domains)
<joejaxx> hmm what is
<joejaxx> launchpad takes up alot
<joejaxx> ubuntu wiki
<joejaxx> debian docs
<joejaxx> different forums
<joejaxx> man someone is selling a SGI cluster
<Lathiat> heh
<joejaxx> http://cgi.ebay.com/SGI-2400-Server-origin_W0QQitemZ220050474411QQihZ012QQcategoryZ1484QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
<joejaxx> too bad i do not live in san jose
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> 32 x 300mhz == 9.6Ghz
<joejaxx> it looks so nice too
<joejaxx> :(
<joejaxx> Lol 750lbs haha
* joejaxx loves servers, mainframes, blades:D
<secretlondon> yum new hardware
<ajmitch> and I make do with my 2 systems
<joejaxx> any computer that sounds like a jet engine when you have it plugged in and before you turn it on
<joejaxx> i like
<joejaxx> haha
* fernando loves beach, girls =)
<secretlondon> most of mine is old
<joejaxx> fernando: haha
<secretlondon> fernando: I doubt you wouldn't be seduced by a nice server cluster
<joejaxx> man that sgi system is really nice
<fernando> ;)
* ajmitch has no real use for one
<secretlondon> i would just look at it as i'd never be able to afford to turn it on
<secretlondon> still nice tho
<joejaxx> oh i whould definitely have a use for it
<joejaxx> lol
* joejaxx runs an open grid computing community
<joejaxx> fun stuff
<joejaxx> too bad they do not want to ship it Lol
* ajmitch has no bandwidth for such frivolity
<joejaxx> anyone know of a blackberry application for linux?
<joejaxx> like how there is the palm device manager
<rendhalver> joejaxx: i went looking for one but i couldn't find one
* joejaxx will probably end up writing one :\
<imbrandon> moins all
<joejaxx> hello imbrandon
<fernando> imbrandon: moin
<secretlondon> hi brandon
<joejaxx> is there a way
<joejaxx> nevermind
<rendhalver> joejaxx: i did find a forum post about getting a blackberry to work in linux
<joejaxx> basically i want to see what you all think about this
<rendhalver> joejaxx: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=190938
<joejaxx> i want to buy a couple of blade servers with no hard drives and netboot them to a bootstrap environment and have sshd run and have the storage on the ltspd and basically just use the cpu power and that is it
<joejaxx> does that sound like a good idea?
<rendhalver> sounds like fun either way
<rendhalver> should be possible with ltsp
<joejaxx> rendhalver: lol
<joejaxx> rendhalver: ok
<Kingsqueak> I might have found a small xorg Xsession.d bug/issue, is this the right channel to point that out?
<rendhalver> or you could try edubuntu :P
<joejaxx> rendhalver: i run edubuntu ltsp+tc on vmware lol
<joejaxx> omgponieslol: Lol
<crimsun> I'm highly offended
<joejaxx> rendhalver: ltsp is fun
<lastnode> imbrandon, ping, got a sec for a /query?
<joejaxx> crimsun: who offended you?
<imbrandon> lastnode: sure
<rendhalver> joejaxx: indeed it is i setup an office with edubuntu and it works great
* joejaxx searchs
<joejaxx> searches*
<joejaxx> rendhalver: nice
<joejaxx> rendhalver: i am going to try this method you just posted for me :)
<imbrandon> Kingsqueak: they "right" way ( and to make sure it gets fixed ) is to verify its reporduceable and file a bug on LP ( http://launchpad.net )
<rendhalver> joejaxx: let me know if it works
<joejaxx> rendhalver: ok i will
<rendhalver> joejaxx: i am seriously considering getting a fleet of blackberrys for my business and it would suck if it wont work with linux
<crimsun> joejaxx: ponies are sacred, dude.
<rendhalver> joejaxx: thanks dude
<joejaxx> rendhalver: you are most welcome
<rendhalver> :)
<joejaxx> rendhalver: :)
<joejaxx> blackberries are quite useful
<Kingsqueak> imbrandon: k
<joejaxx> crimsun: yes
<rendhalver> joejaxx: blackberrys can do imap right?
<joejaxx> rendhalver: that i do not know
<joejaxx> rendhalver: email goes through the blackberry enterprise server
* joejaxx checks
<joejaxx> i think there has to be a middleware
<rendhalver> joejaxx: i am assuming that only runs on windows servers?
<joejaxx> to do it
<joejaxx> rendhalver: yeah
<rendhalver> joejaxx: damn
<ajmitch> crimsun: just how sacred?
* crimsun weeps
<joejaxx> rendhalver: you are going to be paying for blackberry data services right?
<joejaxx> you might be able to get a third party email app
<joejaxx> but it depends on what model blackberry you get
<Kingsqueak> rendhalver: I would tell you to reconsider blackberry unless you already run Exchange
<joejaxx> hello minghua
<minghua> hi joejaxx
<Kingsqueak> rendhalver: I just watched an attempted Zimbra install to replace Exchange/Blackberry Enterprise and it doesn't work, Blackberry has people by the short ones basically
<Kingsqueak> rendhalver: Treo with imaps works pretty well as an alternative
<rendhalver> Kingsqueak: yeah i figured that might be the case
<rendhalver> Kingsqueak: yeah treo's were the other option i have been considering
<Kingsqueak> rendhalver: the 'Blackberry solutions' all seem to be store and forward, dependent on at least one Exhange/Bberry instance too
<jabra> hey guys
<jabra> anyone around ?
<fernando> hi jabra
<joejaxx> hello jabra
<joejaxx> welcome :)
<jabra> heh thanks
<joejaxx> pbnj?
<Kingsqueak> rendhalver: Motorola Q works pretty well with imap too, one thing to keep in mind though is that imap on Verizon the way their system works, eats the batteries, where PCS and GSM seem to be better at dealing with the polling
<jabra> heh
<joejaxx> was it updated yet?
<jabra> joejaxx: how did you know ?
<jabra> it has been accepted into debian
<joejaxx> i am insomnia
<jabra> heh
<rendhalver> Kingsqueak: i live in .au and i haven't seen Q's here yet
<Kingsqueak> Blackberry does have an awesome interface though...pisses me off that I can't work around it
<Kingsqueak> rendhalver: ah sort of their slimline version of a Treo
<rendhalver> Kingsqueak: the Q does look kinda spiffy too
<jabra> wondering how I can help to move along the process of getting pbnj and libnmap-parser-perl into ubuntu
<ajmitch> jabra: if they're in sid, they'll be in feisty (or will be soon)
<Kingsqueak> going to a Treo 700p most likely myself in a few weeks to get rid of the corp Blackberry and get down to a single device, been mulling over this for a while
<joejaxx> ajmitch: fromthe sync/merges right?
<Kingsqueak> rendhalver: Zimbra is awesome otherwise btw, if you want an alternative to Exchange, I highly recommend trying it out
<ajmitch> joejaxx: yes, semi-automatically
<fernando> [101%]  Building CXX object kabc/plugins/ldapkio/CMakeFiles/kabc_ldapkio.dir/resourceldapkio.o
<fernando> [102%]  Generating resourceldapkioconfig.moc
<jabra> ajmitch: they are both in debian unstable
<fernando> hehehehe
<ajmitch> jabra: then you just have to wait
<jabra> ok
<jabra> thanks ajmitch
<joejaxx> jabra: great now i will be able to test on here
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> :P
<rendhalver> Kingsqueak: thanks dude.
<jabra> heh joejaxx
<rmjb> g'night all
<joejaxx> goodnight rmjb
<Kingsqueak> no problem, corp email is a pain
<rexbron> hello, I am attempting to package Celtx, oss screenwritting software, what in the control file, what section do you think this would fall under?
<joejaxx> oh man
<joejaxx> Lathiat: i just found another on
<joejaxx> Sun Ultra Enterprise 10000 Server
<rendhalver> joejaxx: a friend of mine works at a uni here and he gets to play with 2 E-15k's
<joejaxx> rendhalver: darn him :(
<rendhalver> joejaxx: and he has a sun blade for a desktop box
<joejaxx> :(
<joejaxx> http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Ultra-Enterprise-10000-Server-Fully-Loaded_W0QQitemZ290051810751QQihZ019QQcategoryZ51239QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
<joejaxx> look at that
<rendhalver> one slight problem
<rendhalver> you got three phase power?
<joejaxx> rendhalver: :(
<rendhalver> but i guess for $26 you could afford to get three phase power
<joejaxx> ROFL 581USD to ship
* rendhalver wonders what the shipping cost for an e10k would be
<rendhalver> that cant be right
* joejaxx thinks so
<joejaxx> this thing is loaded
<joejaxx> 32gb of ram
<joejaxx> 16GHz processing power
<joejaxx> each mother board has fibrechannel
<rendhalver> yeah they are very nice
<joejaxx> and a scsi card
<rendhalver> sigh
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> too bad this cost 581 to ship
* rendhalver considers getting a job at a uni so he can play with one
* joejaxx goes to find another mainframe
<joejaxx> :(
<joejaxx> rendhalver: nice
<rendhalver> 581 sounds too cheep for shipping
<joejaxx> that is 3 day freight
<rexbron> could some one assitme (or point me to the right documentation) on how to package a program the does not need to be compiled? In this case, celtx just needs to be copyed to /usr/local/ and a menu entry added.
<rexbron> * assist me
<lifeless> anyone here good with gimp ?
<lifeless> I need a new icon for the hwdb-client
<rendhalver> lifeless: sorta what you need?
<lifeless> one for 'contact details'
<lifeless> have you seen the hwdb-client ? (you can see it by running 'hwdb-gui' from a terminal
<rexbron> Burgwork: Could you assist me (or point me to the right documentation) on how to package a program the does not need to be compiled? In this case, celtx just needs to be copyed to /usr/local/ and a menu entry added.
<secretlondon> rexbron: there are loads of packaging tutorials
<joejaxx> !packaging
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<secretlondon> the official packaging guide has an appendix with a list
<joejaxx> that is a really good guide btw rendhalver
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> rexbron: *
<rendhalver> joejaxx: spiffy :)
<joejaxx> rendhalver: well time to continue my quest for a mainframe  Lol
<rendhalver> joejaxx: the packaging guide? or the blavkberry guide?
* rendhalver learns how to speil
<joejaxx> rendhalver: it was for rexbron actually
<joejaxx> irssi nick autocomplete ftw/l
<rendhalver> joejaxx: i need to read it anyways if i am gonna be useful here
<rendhalver> joejaxx: still converting my packages building skills from gentoo
<joejaxx> rendhalver: :)
<rendhalver> joejaxx: how about one of these http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/sunfire_e25k/index.xml ?
<joejaxx> Lol
<joejaxx> UltraSprac IV+ 72 cpus
<joejaxx> man that is great haha :)
<joejaxx> 1tb if ram
<rendhalver> joejaxx: :) and oneday we might see those on ebay when they release the e50k
<secretlondon> joejaxx: you need one to, err, test the sparc port on
<joejaxx> rendhalver: nice
<joejaxx> secretlondon: no i just like computers that are built for those purposes
<secretlondon> joejaxx: I know you don't *need* one, I was thinking of you to justify someone giving you one, say
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> i could actually use it if i had one
<secretlondon> joejaxx: I'm not sure I'm making any sense
<secretlondon> I don't have one, I was joking about how you'd try and get one from the manufacturer
<joejaxx> no i actually meant i could use one
<joejaxx> Lol
<joejaxx> secretlondon: i know you were joking
<secretlondon> joejaxx: phew!
<joejaxx> secretlondon: grid compuing
<joejaxx> copmuting*
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> computing*
<joejaxx> is what i whould use it for
<joejaxx> welcome back
<corky> some one pls give hand with a net prob?
<VoX> corky: this isnt really an ubuntu support channel as such
<secretlondon> #ubuntu is the support channel
<imbrandon> woot, no beryl / compiz for kde4 , its built into kwin now ( and actualy compiles and works it looks like )
<imbrandon> *whew*
<corky> so just giv e me a hand ..no one else willl
<VoX> corky: this isnt a support channel, this is a maintainers channel
<VoX> go to #ubuntu. if you dont get get a reply straight away, wait 10 minutes and ask again.
<lifeless> you can also suggest the answers system in launchpad for support
<VoX> lifeless: as it was a network problem, chances are it wouldnt go anywhere, literally. :)
<lifeless> VoX: he was online already
<lifeless> VoX: so clearly thats beside the point :)
<VoX> SHHH
<VoX> dont bring logic into this
<secretlondon> he may be in a windows partition
<imbrandon> lifeless: yea logic and computing dont mix well </sarcasim>
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> lifeless: finaly get back "to your own time" heh
<secretlondon> of course you don't consider that they have more than one box
<lifeless> imbrandon: yup, happy to be so too :)
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> secretlondon: that could be true
<joejaxx> one windows one ubuntu
<imbrandon> food time, bbiab
<secretlondon> many people have windows partitions and will use that to find help if they cannot, say, get their wifi working in ubuntu
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I just booted into Windows and installed the ie7 update :(
<LaserJock> I feel so dirty
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> as you should ( just kidding as i'm typing this from a osx console ssh'd into a server )
<secretlondon> well i'm pure writing this from dapper (as I have a nasty regression in edgy)
<elkbuntu> im trying to think when this PC was last booted into windows... and i cant actually remember
<imbrandon> you know i was looking at the new mbp's, and the only thing i could think of while looking the specs over is "cool i can boot OSX,Windows, AND Linux all natively on this thing"
<imbrandon> :)
<rendhalver> i had a windows parition on here but it decuded to not work about 6 months ago and i still don't miss it
<rendhalver> imbrandon: geek
<imbrandon> rendhalver: to the heart
* lastnode only boots in to windows for 2 things - skype video, and hamachi vpn, which has really bad *nix support atm
<ajmitch> people use windows?
<secretlondon> ajmitch: bug #1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ubuntu-meta "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<rendhalver> apparently they do
<imbrandon> the only reason i ever boot windows is tooo, ummm laugh for 5 minutes
<ajmitch> secretlondon: reject it
<secretlondon> imbrandon: macos is no better
<elkbuntu> secretlondon, run. now.
<imbrandon> secretlondon: osx is much better
<lastnode> as soon as skype releases a video option for *nix, im half way to rm -rf /media/hda1
<rendhalver> i got bored with os x
<rendhalver> and i missed linux too much
<imbrandon> osx is atleaste partly open ( the core of the os and kernel ) , and is a unixy and runs floss natively easier than windows , and the list go's on
<secretlondon> i've never bought into apple's advertising
<elkbuntu> i've never owned a mac, unfortunately :(
<rendhalver> imbrandon: i think they recently closed the os x kernel
<secretlondon> I know about darwin - but is still seems to be aimed at people who think they are too cool for windows, but actually they are both closed source and really similar
<imbrandon> rendhalver: no, they reciently opened it ( it was only closed for a short time on intel )
* ajmitch goes back to playing with windows 2003 server
<imbrandon> secretlondon: darwin is very very far from closed source :)
<lastnode> ajmitch, throwing it around the room? :P
<rendhalver> imbrandon: ah thats what it was about then
<ajmitch> lastnode: no, using it
<secretlondon> of course  - although the open darwin project has closed
<lastnode> i see
<imbrandon> secretlondon: only the website, infavor of macforge
<imbrandon> just a change in hosts
<imbrandon> ( i think you mean darwin ports , and yes that is gone , infavor of fink )
<rendhalver> ok random question
<ajmitch> back later :)
<rendhalver> i spotted someone saying stuff gets portsed from sid to ubuntu
<joejaxx> rendhalver: yes sync'd/merged
<secretlondon> imbrandon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDarwin
<imbrandon> rendhalver: yea the majority of ubuntu packages come directly from sid
<rendhalver> and being not very aware of debian versions is sid the testing branch or the stable branch?
<secretlondon> sid = unstable
<rendhalver> cool
<rendhalver> thanks
<rendhalver> so next question
<imbrandon> sid == stays in development
<rendhalver> how long does stuff take to get bought into ubuntu from sid?
<secretlondon> or the boy next door who breaks your toys
<joejaxx> rendhalver: week week and a half?
<rendhalver> imbrandon: thats logical and obvious now thanks
<joejaxx> imbrandon: right?
<secretlondon> it's synced for the next version, before the version is frozen
<imbrandon> rendhalver: depends on the time in the cycle, right this minute, only a few hours, after a freeze it can take weeks
<secretlondon> so stuff is going from sid to feisty
<rendhalver> cool
<imbrandon> also depends ont he package , if there are ubuntu delta's , if its in main, if its in universe, how big the changes are, how many people "look after" the package and so on
<imbrandon> but as a general rule , before freeze in a cycle less than a day, after freeze could be weeks
<rendhalver> and packages get ported back to edgy or dapper from there right?
<secretlondon> backports are a different thing - they don't happen automatically on a stable version
<imbrandon> secretlondon: right, thats what i said the website only,l darwin is still open source and will continue to be, opendarwin.org was a 3rd party running it , see http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/
<imbrandon> anyhow , food time bbiab
<rendhalver> secretlondon: thats understandable
<rendhalver> i am guessing security fixes get back ported pretty quick
<imbrandon> yes -security and sru and pakports are all diffrent ( but similar ) animals
<secretlondon> sru = stable release updates
<rendhalver> cool
<crimsun> Uploading via ftp flashplugin-nonfree_9.0.21.78~ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
<keescook> rendhalver: security fixes in main get backported very quickly.  universe security updates needs some attention, though.  if there are people with some time to package and test them, I'm more than happy to push them through the security update channel.  :)
<keescook> yay new flushplugin!
<rendhalver> keescook: packaging is something i am still learning
<minghua> crimsun: what colors are the pills this time? :-)
<rendhalver> keescook: still wrapping my head around it
<keescook> rendhalver: cool, me too.  ;)
<secretlondon> rendhalver: me too!
<keescook> the motu wiki guides are pretty cool
<joejaxx> hello everyone
<keescook> all I know is that I love debuild and debdiff.  :)
<keescook> hiya joejaxx
<rendhalver> unless someone can help me port my gentoo packaging skills to debian
<keescook> rendhalver: I've found it much easier to make small changes to existing packages than to do it from scratch.
<keescook> so, for example, doing universe security update packaging would be great practice.  :)
<rendhalver> keescook: yeah thats how i learn new most things
<rendhalver> keescook: heh
<rendhalver> keescook: so this is a subtle ask for help?
<crimsun> minghua: white. for death.
<elkbuntu> crimsun, aww, i was hoping for rainbow :(
<keescook> rendhalver: hehe.  subtle?  who me?  :)  I just mean that if you happen to pick security updates, it's an area I can give you some feedback on.  :)
<rendhalver> keescook: i have a dual boot of edgy and a feisty here
<keescook> rendhalver: cool.  I've got some crazy chroot magic going on.  I keep meaning to write up a wiki page about it (schroot + sbuild == crazy delicious)
<rendhalver> keescook: yeah i was mucking about with a chroot a while ago
<rendhalver> keescook: then i got bored and started running edgy as my default desktop (yes months before it got released)
<LaserJock> keescook: would a MOTU Security team help?
<LaserJock> sorry, was just reading backlog
<LaserJock> keescook: also, have you seen https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hehe and what 5 of the 10 would be on that one ? ( sorry for the sarcasim , had to say it )
* imbrandon stops
<LaserJock> you of course
<imbrandon> hahaha /me is no good at keeping up with security updates
<crimsun> this error is ... insane
<crimsun> I got an accepted from soyuz followed immediately by a rejected
<imbrandon> wow
<crimsun> which one do I trust, the accepted or the rejected?
<imbrandon> hrm , probably accepted THEN rejected? dunno check LP hehe
<LaserJock> is there any message with the rejected
<crimsun> that's insane; it's in DONE according to the feisty queue LP page
<crimsun> so now I have like three different answers
<nixternal> if there are no ubuntu fixes on a package, leave it with the (package-x.x.x-x) unstable;?
<nixternal> package (x.x.x-x) unstable;
<nixternal> tis what i meant
<crimsun> if it was accepted, the done makes sense, but then why did I get the rejected?
<LaserJock> crimsun: soyuz just wants to play around with you
<crimsun> I guess it was looking for either a pony sacrifice or a pills tagline, neither of which I attached
<LaserJock> nixternal: you shouldn't be doing anything then
<nixternal> new upstream source, and it isn't in debian either
<nixternal> guide me obi wan
<secretlondon> wb hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey sed
<Hobbsee> * hey secretlondon
<LaserJock> nixternal: if it isn't in debian then it has a -0ubuntu1 version
<crimsun> sed, now there's a nice nick ;)
<Hobbsee> haha
<nixternal> well, i just did a apt-get source and the one currently in our repos doesn't have the -0ubuntu1, so i should add it is what youa re saying then?
<Hobbsee> someone can have screwed up the versioning
<LaserJock> nixternal: what?
<LaserJock> nixternal: what is the package and current version?
<nixternal> smb4k 0.7.3-1
<nixternal> that is in our repos
<nixternal> current which im working on now is 0.7.4
<crimsun> it needs to be 0.7.4-0ubuntu1
<nixternal> thanks crimsun!
<crimsun> 0.7.3-1 is in testing and unstable.
<LaserJock> so the package is in Debian, just not that particular version
<crimsun> nixternal: 6180 is fine being rej
<nixternal> ok crimsun, just wanted to be a little safe there since it was kind of old..i have run across some where people get upset when you close a 2 year old bug ;)
* secretlondon nods at nixternal.
<secretlondon> even when it's on something like brezzy beta
<nixternal> hehe ya
<crimsun> didn't I file that one, heh?
<crimsun> I don't at all mind others closing bugs :)
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3505
<nixternal> ^^ who wants to revu that for me?  thank you ;)
<minghua> In Debian/Ubuntu we use /lib and /usr/lib for the native libraries on both 32-bit and 64-bit arches, don't we?  No lib64 madness, right?
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% ls -lh /lib64
<StevenK> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 2005-12-25 13:15 /lib64 -> lib
<minghua> cool, thanks
* minghua sighs at the handmade configure script that detects /lib64 itself
<StevenK> Hrm. I had no idea I had 32 bit libc on this machine.
<StevenK> minghua: My 32 bit chroot has no such directory, though.
<minghua> StevenK: neither does my chroot on this 32-bit machine
<minghua> I suppose most of the stuff there is installed by libc6-amd64
<crimsun> err, you don't have a /usr/lib32 ?
<minghua> (which is Priority: standard, and I don't understand why)
<crimsun> oh, right, you wouldn't unless you installed specific 32-bit libs
<minghua> crimsun: no, I meant only /lib, no /lib64 in chroot
<minghua> oh, I see you are not talking to me :-)
<minghua> anyway, back to fixing this crazy package
* StevenK wonders if he can drop his chroot, then.
* StevenK ponders upgrading this machine to Edgy.
<Riddell> lifeless: hi
<minghua> Ugh.   Forgot to update patches/00list after adding a new patch.  I always forget that.
<nixternal> anyone availble to revu, please check out http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3506
<nixternal> thank you
<Riddell> nixternal: looking
<nixternal> thanks Riddell, i have smb4k up there as well
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3505
<Riddell> nixternal: tellico hasn't been merged with debian
* nixternal looks up the info
<nixternal> so it has to be merged with debian first?
<Riddell> neither has smb4k
<nixternal> i knew that, after you said that about tellico
<Riddell> of course, we must always keep as close to debian as possible unless there's a reason not to
<nixternal> so i should poke a dd sot hey can merge
<Riddell> no, you should download the current debian version and start with that package, not the current (older) ubuntu packages
<nixternal> ahhhh
<Riddell> merging in the old ubuntu changelog entries if you want to do it properly
<nixternal> so merge their 1.2.4-1 into our 1.2.2, and then upgrade to 1.2.6
<Riddell> start with their 1.2.4-1, merge old ubuntu changelog entries from our 1.2.2 and update for 1.2.6
<nixternal> ya, thats what i mean
<nixternal> t
<nixternal> rocking! thanks
<crimsun> anyone running feisty/amd64 willing to test a deb?
<Hobbsee> crimsun imbrandon would be
<crimsun> idle for a bit, though, probably Z
<nixternal> send me an amd64 and i would be more than happy to test ;)
* nixternal prices a cheap amd64 setup
<Lathiat> dell have some ridicuoyusly cheap amd laptops out now
<Lathiat> $1400 for an x2 turion 15.4" w/ 80G hdd
<Lathiat> (AUD)
<Lathiat> only 1280x800 screen tho
<nixternal> ya, i looked at those
<nixternal> $299.99USD - AMD64 3200+/512MB/100GB/DVDRW
<crimsun> heh, the problems that core 2 duos have w/ ubuntu make amd64s seem almost ideal ;)
<nixternal> if that system is still in the store tomorrow, i will buy it so i can start playing aroudn with 64bit stuff
<minghua> Is there a way to say "I know this package fails to build, but I want to wait for a fix in another package, so don't touch this one"?
<crimsun> in terms of bugs, or...?
<minghua> any way.  I thought of filing a bug, but I doubt every MOTU checks all bugs before they fix a FTBFS package
<minghua> oh.  it's in main.  never mind...
<nixternal> Riddell: what needed to be merged with smb4k?
<nixternal> tellico is done btw
<Riddell> debian has smb4k 0.7.3-1
<Riddell> edgy has only 0.7.1-1
<nixternal> and the latest release is 0.7.4
<Riddell> yep, so start with debian's packaging of 0.7.3-1 and update for 0.7.4
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> gotcha
<nixternal> i was gonna say, we never made changes before
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3507
<nixternal> there is the new tellico
<pygi> Riddell: there's a chance I might come next weekend to Pula, altought I won't be able to come with ivoks and rest of the folks
<pygi> Riddell: for a little talk and gpg signing if you are willing ^_^
<pygi> giskard: ping?
<Riddell> pygi: weekend might not be the best time (just thinking of girlfriend reaction to lots of geeks showing up)
<pygi> Riddell: just I would show up, but right :-/
<pygi> and I'm no geek in any way ^_^
* pygi is just a simple student who will fail uni =)
<pygi> Riddell: okay, so I won't come then ...
<sivang> Riddell: hehe
<xerxas> Hi everyone
<pygi> Riddell: friday might also be option next week , but I'll see...
<xerxas> is there a motu here ?
<pygi> xeros: ofcourse there is, this is motu channel
<lastnode> xerxas, id just ask the question. this channel is obviously _full_ of MOTUs
<xerxas> I have successfully compiled and launched gnash from debian unstable
<lastnode> :-)
<xerxas> under feisty
<xerxas> what should I do ?
<pygi> Laser_away: IHMO that's why it's called #u-motu :)))
<xerxas> request a sync ? (there's no gnash yet in ubuntu)
<xerxas> sumbit de revu ?
<pygi> lastnode: that and the He-Man dude :P
<nixternal> xerxas: i would go with revu as the best bet
<lastnode> xerxas, go for REVU
<lastnode> pygi, heh :-)
<xerxas> nixternal,  I didn't modified anything !
<xerxas> anyway ...
<pygi> xeros: just request sync then ^_^
<lastnode> xerxas, if this is from sarge, it should just be synced
<xerxas> do I need to change the release with a ubunut1 suffix ?
<nixternal> i seen gnash i thought
<lastnode> sorry
<lastnode> s/sarge/sid
<lastnode> damn S names :\
<pygi> xeros: just request a sync ^_^
<xerxas> ok , how do I do that ?
<pygi> xeros: you report bug ^_^
<xerxas> ok thanks !
<pygi> yw ^_^
<Kagou> hi
<nixternal> Riddell: smb4k and tellico are done
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3508
<nixternal> that is smb4k
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3507
<nixternal> and there is tellico
<nixternal> thanks!
* nixternal beds
* ajmitch returns from an evening of merriment
<ajmitch> Laser_away: we've talked about/tried a universe security team a few times
<ajmitch> but few people have the time to commit, as usual
<xerxas> my edgy doesn't have /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/feisty
<xerxas> where do I find it ?
<pygi> xeros: you install deboostrap package from feisty
<ajmitch> that's because you don't have debootstrap installed from feisty, or edgy-backports
<sivang> xerxas: either copy the prvious file, or find the fesity deboostrap package
<lastnode_> xerxas, get the feisty deboostrap package
<lastnode_> ok, i have to stop talking when im lagging
<ajmitch> there, 4 answers almost exactly the same
<lastnode> i wonder though, does anyone here run grumpy, and is there actually a deboostrap script?
<Riddell> grumpy doesn't exist yet
<ajmitch> and grumpy is not intended to be a distro for end users by any means
<lastnode> i see, i just saw it on the wiki and thought i was a sid equiv
<lastnode> ajmitch, no of course not, but im a masochist
<ajmitch> no, it's far far beyond what sid offers
<lastnode> oh right, grumpy is like sid during puberty?
* lastnode has to read up more on the ubuntu - debian sync cycle, and how it works
<ajmitch> grumpy is everything build from bleeding-edge cvs, without testing
<Riddell> sid is released software
<lastnode> i see
<ajmitch> not packages that are carefully crafted & put into a distro
<lastnode> i see, so sid _and_ grumpy both feed the latest testing
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> grumpy doesn't exist yet
* lastnode listens
<lastnode> right, sorry, i meant when it does
<ajmitch> not necessarily
<ajmitch> grumpy (will be) is an ubuntu project done on launchpad
<Riddell> ubuntu doesn't have a testing distro
<lastnode> right
<StevenK> Riddell: Just so you know, wlassistant thrown to -proposed, waiting for -archive to approve or deny it.
<xerxas> thanks guys, worked !
<lastnode> xerxas, sweet.
* ajmitch sees lastnode trying to convert debian developers
<Riddell> StevenK: great
<xerxas> If I file a sync request for a package that isn't in ubuntu, what is the package of the bug ?
* ajmitch wonders if fedora's cvs server has had some major breakage
<ajmitch> xerxas: if it's in debian, I wouldn't bother
<xerxas> "In what package did you find this bug?"
<lastnode> ajmitch, there is a DD who said he'd sponsor Fujitsu to upload upstream-0.1 to debian, im asking him if he wouldn't mind me emailing the guy with a CC to Fujitsu :-)
<xerxas> ajmitch,  I should replay "I don't know" ?
<ajmitch> lastnode: yes, I'm in #d-d
<ajmitch> xerxas: why are you trying to file a sync request?
<lastnode> ajmitch, yes i gathered, i dunno why i just retyped all that.
<xerxas> ajmitch,  in malone
<xerxas> I should not ?
<ajmitch> xerxas: *why*, not where
<xerxas> ajmitch,  sorry  , morning :)
<xerxas> ajmitch,  I tried to compile debian's gnahs
<xerxas> gnash
<lastnode> ajmitch, it's apparently in sid, but hasn't been synced over
<xerxas> it worked (launches and no core dump )
<ajmitch> so it will get imported
<ajmitch> don't file a sync request
<xerxas> ok
<ajmitch> archive admins are processing all those, it takes a little while
<rendhalver> ok another random question can i get the changelogs for a package in breezy via launchpad or something else?
<lastnode> rendhalver, packages.ubuntu.com should let you do that
<Riddell> changelogs.ubuntu.com
<rendhalver> lastnode: spiffy thanks dude
<lastnode> sorry, again, listen to Riddell :-)
<Riddell> p.u.c also a good answer, probably better
<rendhalver> Riddell: thanks :)
<lastnode> rendhalver, if you go to packages, you can find your package and then view the changelog, might be easier than browsing through changelogs
* lastnode goes for a walk while the deboostrap completes
<rendhalver> i found an old bug that i think is fixed, just trying to tack down wether it actually is
<lastnode> Riddell, ajmitch , again, im sure you guys are busy et al., but if you want some thing to play around with this week, id urge you to take Upstream (www.upstreamdev.org) for a spin. We're pushing hard for a 0.2 release at the end of the month, and always looking for thoughts/gripes/ideas. Edgy .debs available at http://upstreamdev.org/wiki/Releases/0.1.0 . :-)
<lastnode> (that goes for everyone btw, please feel free).
* lastnode finally goes for a walk while the deboostrap completes
<crimsun> lastnode: not developing against Feisty?
<xerxas> ajmitch,  so there should happen the same for mldonkey ?
<xerxas> mldonkey has a new release in debian
<xerxas> but it will be synced, no need to ask for
<ajmitch>   mldonkey |    2.8.1-2 | http://apt-proxy feisty/universe Sources
<xerxas> ajmitch, can I help in the process of syncing ? or where should I help ?
<ajmitch> we already have what sid has
<ajmitch> no, you can't help syncing, only archive admins can do that
<xerxas> ahh , right, it's synced !
<ajmitch> we do have a number of packages to manually merge changes in
<lastnode> crimsun, oh we are, definitely
<rendhalver> ok this bug i have been looking into is for breezy (#24591 if anyone wants to look at it)
<Admiral_Chicago> bug #24591
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 24591 in libapache2-mod-perl2 "request tracker's mod-perl2 config breaks in Breezy" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/24591
<rendhalver> ooo tricky
<Admiral_Chicago> oh wow i can't help you there, no apache on my system
<rendhalver> the thing is i know why the bug is there
<rendhalver> it was when mod_perl2 was updated and didnt include an Apache2.pm file pre 2.0 mod_perl i think
<Admiral_Chicago> rendhalver: as much as i appreciate the bug talk, i know next to nothing about networking
<rendhalver> Admiral_Chicago: its cool
<Admiral_Chicago> let me look at your bug report though, i may be able to help
<rendhalver> its a breezy bug and it got fixed in later versions
<rendhalver> well i know it got fixed in edgy
<Admiral_Chicago> rendhalver: i'd put the Breezy part in another comment, and put your suggestions on dow to fix it
<Admiral_Chicago> because breezy hasn't reach its EoL, it may still affect people
<rendhalver> the bug is actually in request-tracker and not mod_perl
<xerxas> is there a facility to package something that generates on egg ?
<Admiral_Chicago> what do I do with a bug that's just says "program is out"
<ajmitch> Admiral_Chicago: kindly ask for more information?
<ajmitch> if they mean that a new release has been made, they really put it in a strange way
<Admiral_Chicago> ajmitch: i thought so
<Admiral_Chicago> bug #72688
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72688 in audacity "Audacity 1.2.6 is out" [Wishlist,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72688
<Admiral_Chicago> ah that got fixed already
<Admiral_Chicago> i dont have the privilages to change anything besides "needs more info"
<crimsun> yes, I pbuilt it several hours ago and asked for testers in several channels. No one responded.
<Admiral_Chicago> i was going to wish list it
<Admiral_Chicago> crimsun: still need a tester?
<crimsun> I need a feisty/amd64 tester.
<Admiral_Chicago> crimsun: oh yes i saw that. i'm on edgy/x86
<ajmitch> crimsun: of what package?
<ajmitch> audacity?
<crimsun> yes
<ajmitch> url?
<crimsun> http://adhd.irule.net/~crimsun/
<ajmitch> what needs tested? whether it starts, or whether I can do basic editing?
<crimsun> preferrably the latter
<ajmitch> give me a few moments then
<crimsun> exporting to mp3 won't work unless you have liblame0 installed
<StevenK> crimsun: I can test it inside a chroot, if that helps.
<crimsun> StevenK: yes, plesae
<crimsun> gar
<ajmitch> crimsun: ok, installed, imported mp3
<mnepton> ADHD stands for Attention Deficit LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
<ajmitch> it'd be nice if I could play sound
<ajmitch> Expression 'SetApproximateSampleRate( pcm, hwParams, sr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1108
<ajmitch> Expression 'PaAlsaStreamComponent_InitialConfigure( &self->playback, outParams, self->primeBuffers, hwParamsPlayback, &realSr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1662
<ajmitch> various things like that in the terminal
<ajmitch> aha, mnepton is alive!
<crimsun> ajmitch: ok, is sound audible through it?
<mnepton> i am? i was hoping the smell of decyaing flesh could be explained by something other than poor hygiene.
<ajmitch> no
<crimsun> ok, thanks, that's what I needed to know
<ajmitch> it cannot open the sound device
<ajmitch> even though it defaults to what appears to be the correct alsa device for playback
<secretlondon> mnepton: poor hygiene is the hallmark of a linux god - do you have the beard too?
<ajmitch> crimsun: ok, works if I switch to OSS
<crimsun> ok
<crimsun> I'll hack at it when I wake. Thanks for testing.
<ajmitch> np
* ajmitch should go off to sleep also
<mnepton> secretlondon: ay-yup
<Amaranth> mnepton: Don't lie. :p
<ajmitch> secretlondon: he has the semi-beard
<StevenK> secretlondon: My wife won't let me have a beard, does that count? :-)
* secretlondon laughs.
<secretlondon> I hope I don't have to smell you all
<StevenK> Muahaha
<StevenK> secretlondon: Are you the hygiene people?
<StevenK> Er.
<StevenK> s/people/police/
<mnepton> secretlondon: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mneptok/kvf.jpg
* secretlondon shakes her head
<secretlondon> mnepton started it by commenting on poor hygiene
<StevenK> Hum.
<StevenK> I note Audacity doesn't want to detect a device in a chroot.
<StevenK> Until I copy the ALSA char devices in.
<StevenK> secretlondon: I also wonder what is so secret about London.
<secretlondon> StevenK: very little
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> crimsun: +1
<StevenK> crimsun: Looks great, looks fine for me.
<StevenK> Like ajmitch, it refuses to use ALSA.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Pick on cjwatson instead?
<Fujitsu> Does he do SRUs?
<StevenK> He's part of the SRU team
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<bhale> StevenK: haha
<bhale> i wish we had a quote bot
<StevenK> bhale: Why?
<bhale> < StevenK> Like ajmitch, it refuses to use ALSA.
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> I meant 'Like ajmitch saw'
<StevenK> Oh well
<bhale> oh
<bhale> it is funnier if he is the only guy not using alsa
<Fujitsu> Finally, two months after I isolate the patch, this nasty Dapper regression is getting closer to fixed!
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> If upstream for wlassistant wasn't a *forum*, I would have submitted my patch along with "You're an idiot. No, really."
<gnomefreak> crimsun: you around?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu!
* mnepton coats Hobbsee in Hollereth cards and cheap tequila
<Hobbsee> oh dear...
* bhale saves Hobbsee 
<gnomefreak> i never got the license agreement for flash update today
<gnomefreak> is that for everyone?
<Hobbsee> yay!
* Hobbsee hugs bhale 
<PriceChild> Hi there
<PriceChild> anyone around?
<PriceChild> uuuu Hobbsee!
<fernando> hi all
<PriceChild> hi fernando
<Hobbsee> PriceChild!!
* PriceChild grins
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: I think i've got everyone's issues sorted finally: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3503
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: woot!
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: And I've promised frodon I'll have a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/proftpd/+bug/68735 next... but can I do anything about this seen as Edgy's already released? I'm not sure how things work
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68735 in proftpd "Module mod-tls.c is missing in the proftpd edgy package" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<PriceChild> be quiet Ubugtu
<Hobbsee> !sru
<ubotu> sru is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: ^
<PriceChild> he he so not going to happen....?
<Hobbsee> oh, it could.  just that it's more painful than it used to be
<PriceChild> You could say it is a bug.... everyone's going to want to run it with encryption? its sort of security too i suppose.
<PriceChild> People have upgraded to Edgy from Dapper and lost encryption and not noticed
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: doesnt matter what it is - they test everything.  unless it's a security update, but i think even then they test it more than they used to
<PriceChild> I'd say that warrants a security update?
<PriceChild> Do you think if i tried hard enough i could get this fixed?
<Hobbsee> probably
<PriceChild> enthusiastic....
* Hobbsee actually looks at it
<Hobbsee> what's the fix?
<Hobbsee> oh, compile it with that module, i guess
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: ask pitti when he comes in if it's a security bug
<PriceChild> he he ok :)
<PriceChild> thanks :)
<PriceChild> Could you maybe take a look at my xvidcap if you get some time today?
<PriceChild> !whois pitti
<ubotu> whois: the GNU whois client. In component main, is optional. Version 4.7.14 (edgy), package size 29 kB, installed size 272 kB
<StevenK> He isn't here.
<PriceChild> hmmm needs a slash... :P
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: depends if i'm in a nitpicky mood.  StevenK can :D
<PriceChild> haha :)
* Hobbsee runs
<StevenK> Can I now?
<Hobbsee> yes, you can
<StevenK> Hobbsee so needs to stop dobbing me in,
<StevenK> s/\,$/./
<PriceChild> I love you guys...
<PriceChild> MOTU and all you wanna do is avoid the work :P
<PriceChild> (and gals)
<StevenK> PriceChild: Please, I hardly know you. :-P
<Hobbsee> yep :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: reviewing NEW stuff sucks.
<PriceChild> you're not so different from everyone else afterall :)
<PriceChild> I can imagine
<Hobbsee> the rest of it i like
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: no, i didnt think so.
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: good thing dholbach's not here.  he likes us reviewing stuff :P
<PriceChild> Uuu.. Hobbsee (and anyone else i don't know yet if interested)... I was having a little conversation with LaserJock yesterday about getting the forums members awareness of the MOTU up, an irc session or two to answer questions about what you do etc. maybe even more of the MOTU schooling sessions. Would you be interested?
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: no you don't think you're very different from everyone else, or no i couldn't imagine?
<PriceChild> I promise I won't tell dholbach then :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: the former
<Hobbsee> hehe
<PriceChild> he he :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: that'd be sensible.  the first thing they should learn is that checkinstall is BAD
<Hobbsee> once they go thru that, the rest should be easy
<PriceChild> he he yeah
<PriceChild> Maybe we could get a channel somewhere with you as an op and you could make that the title?
<Hobbsee> speaking of which, what was that miserable package that involved the dreaded, unnamable build system, and is it on the merge list?  i think i'll avoid it...
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: you can change this one, if you want.  be responsible :P
<PriceChild> Pardon?
<Hobbsee> you can change the topic in this channel
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:PriceChild] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | Feisty open for uploads | "Checkinstall is BAD" - Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hah
<PriceChild> :)
<Hobbsee|Remote> PriceChild: you keep that up, and i'll make you do a package with yada.
* Hobbsee|Remote watches ajmitch run away screaming
<PriceChild> Hobbsee|Remote: I think its a good thing I don't understand that :)
<Hobbsee|Remote> PriceChild: if you *ever* have a package that requires a dep or a build dep of a package called yada, RUN.  it's evil.
<PriceChild> he he ok :)
* PriceChild commits to memory
<Hobbsee|Remote> bloody thing
* Hobbsee|Remote shudders at the mere thought of it
<PriceChild> lol
<PriceChild> So are you insterested in attending any irc things?
<Hobbsee|Remote> sure.
<Hobbsee|Remote> but i'm usually on the wrong side of the world for that
<PriceChild> What country are you in? :O
<realist> There is no _wrong_ side of the world...
<PriceChild> I wouldn't mind moving to New Zealand one day
<PriceChild> or maybe Australia... but i've never been there so couldn't comment
* secretlondon missed her meeting with sfllaw as I was asleep
<Hobbsee|Remote> secretlondon: he'll be awake again.  hello, btw
<Hobbsee|Remote> PriceChild: australia
<PriceChild> cool :)
<PriceChild> I spent 3 weeks in NZ playing hockey... "a bad winter" it was described as by the locals... For me it was like an average/bad summers day lol
<secretlondon> Hobbsee: hello again, and i'm going to bed in a mo
<Hobbsee|Remote> secretlondon: keeping au timezones, there, it seems
<realist> Hobbsee|Remote: How is Australia wrong? :>
<Hobbsee|Remote> PriceChild: where are you normally?
<realist> Travelling to .za in Jan
<Hobbsee|Remote> realist: when the people you talk to and try to have meetings with for kubuntu or whatever are in the UK, with some in the US...it's really the worst place to be
<PriceChild> I'm in the UK
<secretlondon> Hobbsee: it varies - i have ended up on pst before now
<Hobbsee|Remote> lucky
<Hobbsee|Remote> true
<PriceChild> lucky?
<Yagisan> realist, there are many reasons we could start with, and I'm sure you don't want to go there
<Yagisan> oh, and hi everyone
<PriceChild> Hey Yagisan
* Yagisan hopes his boxes survive the heat
<realist> Hobbsee|Remote: I manage remote sites in both UK and NY
<realist> So I guess I'm used to it :-)
* Yagisan pokes doomsday
<Yagisan> hmm
<Yagisan> I wasn't aware my project had become sentient and logged in here.
<Hobbsee|Remote> realist: true
<PriceChild> Right I'm off
<PriceChild> have fun guys
<Hobbsee|Remote> bye!
<PriceChild> do a bit of work ;)
* Hobbsee|Remote should really do some merging now
<Hobbsee|Remote> hah
<PriceChild> I'm talking to you Hobbsee
<PriceChild> he he
* Hobbsee|Remote did two exams
<Hobbsee|Remote> isnt that enough>?????
<PriceChild> maybe
<Yagisan> Hobbsee|Remote, no
<PriceChild> :
<StevenK> Hobbsee|Remote: Nope!
<Yagisan> Hawkwind, you must do 3
* StevenK high fives Yagisan
<PriceChild> :)
<Yagisan> er
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> Denied!
<realist> Hobbsee|Remote: but it actually works in my favour in that situation, i.e. I'm generally awake, and can do maintainance when both cities are asleep
<PriceChild> Keep up the good work
<Yagisan> damm, my keyboard is wearing out O_o
<Hobbsee|Remote> realist: yes, exactly.  it's when you want to communicate with said countries that it doesnt work
<realist> I guess the best cross-over time would be in our evenings
<realist> US mornings, and UK midday/afternoons
<Hobbsee|Remote> true
<Yagisan> StevenK, smell the bushfires ?
<StevenK> There's bushfires?
<StevenK> I'm not that far west.
<StevenK> Why is it anyone east of about Lidcombe puts Blacktown and Katoomba together?
<Yagisan> StevenK, I smell them strongly here
<Hobbsee|Remote> yes there are.  we smell them up here too
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> I recall smelling smoke when leaving work.
<Yagisan> StevenK, and did I mention I'm in Lidcombe
<StevenK> Yagisan: Sorry, I hit rant mode. :-/
<Yagisan> I'm just waiting for some turd to set the cemetery on fire
<StevenK> I haven't noticed anything here.
<StevenK> Yagisan: Ugh, my father is there.
<Yagisan> I'm trying to convince my wife it's a normal smell for summer
<Yagisan> its not working
<StevenK> Heh
<Yagisan> edgys pbuilder seems so slow
<realist> Bushfires already?
<elkbuntu> we had 2 fires around here today... one at a plumbing/gas place a block or so away from me.. not sure how it started and another behind a cemetary where 'a man in his 40s' was seen leaving the area with 'a red can'
<Hobbsee|Remote> yes, it's quite hot over here.
<realist> It's been so humid here (Melbourne)
<Yagisan> it is 29 degress in the city, so add on 3-4 for us out west
<elkbuntu> realist, twas only 8% here late today
<elkbuntu> Yagisan, add on 10 for here
<realist> Hobbsee|Remote: where's that?
<Hobbsee|Remote> realist: sydney
<Yagisan> I had a nice view of the Lidcombe factory fire the other day
<Yagisan> A big red glow out my office window
<Yagisan> elkbuntu, where are you again ?
* StevenK only gets to see the apartment block across the street from his office window
<elkbuntu> Yagisan, http://www.weatherzone.com.au/local/local.jsp?obs=95896&fcast=95896&img=radar&rad=049&pcode=2640
<realist> elkbuntu: would you be willing to do any on-site (linux) support where you are?
<elkbuntu> current temperature..... 30.2C
<Yagisan> StevenK, if the council gets its way, thats all I'll see too
<elkbuntu> realist, depends if you really want me trying to fix other people's messups :
<StevenK> Hah, yay
<StevenK> elkbuntu: And then submit that Australia's Funniest Home Videos?
* StevenK runs away
<elkbuntu> StevenK, they dont have a 'you stuck a what where?' segment on that yet
<realist> I'm possibly setting up a remote managed site there, but *may* require hands-on support if/when the lights go out
<StevenK> Heh
<Yagisan> elkbuntu, I match you http://www.weatherzone.com.au/local/local.jsp?obs=95765&fcast=94764&img=radar&rad=003&pcode=2141
<elkbuntu> realist, cool, count me in
<realist> Awesome.
<StevenK> elkbuntu: My grandmother in law has managed to put a USB cable into a serial port.
* Yagisan off to comfit hot screaming kids - please shoot me now
<realist> Yagisan: I'll have to dig up those youtube links I found the other day (gas / jet fuel / explosions)
<StevenK> It looks like it's cooler here.
<StevenK> http://www.weatherzone.com.au/local/local.jsp?obs=94760&fcast=94764&img=radar&rad=003&pcode=2148
<elkbuntu> Yagisan, we have this gel crystal 'scarf' thing i'll probably take to bed tonight. keeps you cool long enough to get to sleep
* secretlondon is taking her hot water bottle
<StevenK> secretlondon: If we tried that we'd probably spontaneously combust.
<elkbuntu> lucky #&@%
<elkbuntu> StevenK, the water bottles are already melted, we cant
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Not to worry, I have an electric blanket
<StevenK> Not that it's going to be taken out tonight.
<elkbuntu>  hehe
* secretlondon has broken central heating :(
* elkbuntu has ineffective ducted cooling
<realist> elkbuntu: that sounds like a great idea (the ice/gel pack)
* StevenK has air conditioning in one room of the house.
<elkbuntu> it is actually working tonight though, due to the low humidity
<realist> I used to have them for sports injuries
* Hobbsee has airconditioning in the whole house, to the point where her and her mother were *cold* earlier.  hmph
<StevenK> Hah
* elkbuntu rings Hobbsee's doorbell. 'Um, I was just passing through...'
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Sure you were.
* secretlondon channels some cold in your direction
<elkbuntu> hmm...
<StevenK> Oh, I'm so there.
* elkbuntu wonders when this turned into -au
<realist> elkbuntu: did you go to the ubuntu sumit?
<secretlondon> 8 C here according to gnome
<elkbuntu> realist, i did indeed
* realist turns green
<secretlondon> feels colder
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: you'd be welcome to do that, if you wanted.  my house is a little weird though
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, trust me, weird is good compared to my home life at the moment.
<Hobbsee> :(
<realist> elkbuntu: meet sabdfl?
<elkbuntu> realist, only in passing
<realist> Was hoping to catch him in .za next year, but turns out all the south africans have moved to london
<elkbuntu> haha
<secretlondon> and all the londoners would like to leave..
<secretlondon> not connected to the south africans - i'm just sick of the uk atm
<Hobbsee> secretlondon: holiday out here for a while.  isnt your money worth 1.5 times ours, or something ridiculous?
<secretlondon> Hobbsee: no idea - i haven't got any anyway
<Hobbsee> ah drat
<secretlondon> i'm unemployed so I can barely afford to leave london
<thom> Hobbsee: 3x
<thom> well, 2.4
<Hobbsee> thom: ouch.  i did guess that at first, but thought it seemed too high
<secretlondon> its almost 2usd to 1 gbp atm
<thom> www.xe.com 4tw
<Yagisan> realist, youtube + ubuntu amd64 don't mix - which to be honest, is a real blessing in disguise
<realist> yes, flash is evil :-)
<Yagisan> amen
<slytherin> Can someone help me with pbuilder?
<Hobbsee> not without more information
<slytherin> Hobbsee: How can I make pbuilder use packages from apt-get cache while creating environment?
<Hobbsee> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Hobbsee> slytherin: check otu the howto on that - it's a line in pbuilderrc
<slytherin> Hobbsee: I have tried changing option APTCACHE in pbuilderrc, but that didn't help
<Hobbsee> did you copy the files over from /var/cache/apt/archives to /var/cache/pbuilder/apt.cache/ or wherever you set the aptcache to be?
<Hobbsee> and did you use pbuilder-update --override-config?
<slytherin> Hobbsee: I was of the impression that if I set APTCACHE in pbuilderrc to /var/cache/apt/archives, pbuilder will pick friles form there.
<Hobbsee> i would expect so, too
* Hobbsee doesnt personally run it that way, though
<slytherin> Hobbsee: The thing that is happening is that pbuilder creates a /var/cache/apt/archives inside /var/cache/pbuilder/build/<pid>
<Hobbsee> that's....odd
<Hobbsee> want to pastebin you .pbuilderrc?
<slytherin> Hobbsee: I didnt' change .pbuilderrc, I am editing /etc/pbuilderrc
<Hobbsee> sorry, that
<Hobbsee> it's late
<Yagisan> yay, one box overheated!
* Yagisan fries the proverbial egg on it
<PriceChild> Hello again :)
<slytherin> giskard: ping
<slytherin> giskard: ping
* lamont points the motu folks at #70146
<lamont> should I upload that to edgy proposed?
<siretart> bug 70146
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70146 in libnss-ldap "Problem with LDAPS" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70146
<fabo> someone is able to explain why i never see my packages on revu ?
<siretart> lamont: yes please
<siretart> fabo: what package are you uploading?
<fabo> siretart: strigi, but i just noticed the topic -> Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
<fabo> siretart: i've added myself right now, do i need to re-upload ?
<siretart> no, I  can arrange things manually
<fabo> siretart: is it a new behavior ? because if it is the case, wiki page aren't up-to-date ...
<siretart> fabo: nah, I need to resync the revu keyring. this is a semi-automatic process I just triggered
<fabo> k
<siretart> fabo: the keyring is synced from the launchpad group
<siretart> fabo: done
<fabo> siretart: thks
<MikeB-> morning all
<MikeB-> hey Pricechild
<PriceChild> Hi MikeB
<Burgwork> rexbron: the celtx license clearly states you cannot use their trademark or logos
<rexbron> looking
<LaserJock> wahooo
<LaserJock> maxima made it into -proposed
<rexbron> Burgwork: what section is that under?
<pygi> hey
<Burgwork> "This License does not grant any rights to use the trademark "Celtx", and/or the Celtx logo even if such marks are included in the Original Code or Modifications."
<Burgwork> http://www.celtx.com/CePL/
<rexbron> just looking for a section #
<rexbron> found it
<rexbron> that really sucks
<rexbron> I am no longer sure that it is worth packaging, maybe just write a how-to in the wiki/forums
<Burgwork> it is, just put in multiverse
<rexbron> We would therefore have to rename and redeisgn a logo for it
<rexbron> ?
<Burgwork> yes, much like icedove|weasel
<rexbron> I think this might be a good project for me to get into packaging
<rexbron> brb
<Burgwork> by aware, given it uses moz code, it is probably going to be a headache
<ajmitch> lamont: merged in the timeout changes from 251-7 by any chance?
<ajmitch> ah, they look to be
<rexbron> Burgwork: Could you explain more? (or is it simaler to the firefox TM issue?)
<Burgwork> rexbron: nah, just I have heard horror stories about buidling moz code
<rexbron> oh
<rexbron> but we build firefox correct?
<Burgwork> yep
<AlexMBas> do anyone knows if mono 1.2 will get into feisty ?
<ajmitch> yes
<siretart> who?
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<AlexMBas> ajmitch, will there be backports to edgy ?
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<ajmitch> AlexMBas: not very likely
<siretart> AlexMBas: if you can show that this wouldn't break existing packages...
<AlexMBas> hmmm
<AlexMBas>  I would like to help on it if needed
<AlexMBas> I'm a mono developer
<AlexMBas> and am very used to compile mono
<siretart> you develop the mono runtime or applications in C#?
<AlexMBas> just not much used to motu "protocols" on building packages
<AlexMBas> I am a commiter on mono
<ajmitch> siretart: 1.2 is likely to break existing packages
<AlexMBas> i do some of the VB.NET parser codes
<siretart> ajmitch: I assume so
<AlexMBas> break which packages you mean ?
<AlexMBas> things like tomboy and such ?
<ajmitch> banshee, possibly f-spot
<AlexMBas> I guess not
<AlexMBas> I have it compiled by hand replacing 1.1.17
<siretart> well, guessing does not help. only recompiling and extensivly testing
<AlexMBas> and the apps installed by apt-get
<ajmitch> & slomo found issues with 1.1.18 & banshee, iirc
<siretart> I don't think its worth the efford, but YMMV
<slomo_> ajmitch: already fixed in banshee...
<AlexMBas> YMMV ? What does that means ?
<slomo_> 1.2 has other, even more important issues though
<thom> your mileage may vary
<AlexMBas> ohh ok
<AlexMBas> thanks
<ajmitch> slomo_: right, but not banshee in edgy
<ajmitch> slomo_: hence why backporting mono would break things
<slomo_> and backporting it to edgy is not a good idea... too big, incompatible changes, new build dependencies, etc
<slomo_> well, it would only break banshee from compiling... running the old one would still work ;)
<AlexMBas> what would it take for me to build a mono 1.2.1 package on backports if I compile it ?
<AlexMBas> slomo_, yeah thats for sure
<AlexMBas> but should we keep binary packages from breaking or compiling sources also ?
<ajmitch> both
<AlexMBas> ohhh ok
<siretart> AlexMBas: we don't want to break building packages and consider that a bug. we don't like bugs, you know ;)
<AlexMBas> ajmitch, if I backport it and keep everything compiling and running, who should I talk to  ?
<siretart> AlexMBas: https://launchpad.net/products/edgy-backports/+filebug
<AlexMBas> thanks siretart I'll work on it ASAP
<slomo_> apart from that 1.2.1 is not even in feisty yet, not even released upstream ;)
<siretart> as said, I don't think its worth the efford. let's better invest time on improving feisty.
<ajmitch> & the various build dep changes, etc
<AlexMBas> hmmm ok
<ajmitch> means it probably won't be backportable under ubuntu rules
<AlexMBas> so how my expertise on mono could be used to improve feisty ?
<slomo_> we could need someone to care for MD at least ;)
<AlexMBas> ok
<AlexMBas> what should I do and who should I talk to ?
<AlexMBas> I'll take it
<AlexMBas> ;-)
<LaserJock> !packagingguide > AlexMBas
<AlexMBas> thanks .. I'll dig on it
<LaserJock> grrr, update-manager hates me
<pygi> LaserJock: nah, it just hates you :)
<LaserJock> it instists on using archive.u.c
<LaserJock> *insists
<LaserJock> so I'm upgrading to feisty at 10k/s
<LaserJock> oh wait, I'm ugprading to edgy
* LaserJock needs to get his releases straight
<luisbg> usually in a source package... where can one see what software is needed to build and to run (to create the package dependencies)
<LaserJock> INSTALL or README
<LaserJock> but usually their just generic ones
<luisbg> in this case README is blank and install just says the ./configure; make; make install
<LaserJock> luisbg: check the website
<luisbg> no help either... do I have to read the configure file? it is pretty big
<luisbg> or run configure and read the output?
<geser> run configure and see about what it complains
<LaserJock> luisbg: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-control
<LaserJock> luisbg: there's a little script there
<luisbg> qt3...  Qt library not found ---> libqt3-mt ?
<geser> quite likely
<geser> don't forget you need libqt3-mt-dev
<luisbg> the package goes with libqt3-mt and the source with libqt3-mt-dev
<slytherin> giskard_: ping
<luisbg> how do I set the QTDIR environment variable
<luisbg> ?
<geser> doesn't configure have an option to set the qt dir?
<luisbg> --with-Qt-dir=/usr/lib/qt3
<luisbg> still something missing with the libqt
<geser> have you looked at config.log?
<luisbg> thanks geser
<xopher> A quick question, can you install the i386 ubuntu on a ppc machine?
<slytherin> xopher: no
<imbrandon> no, but you can install the ppc ubuntu on a ppc machine
<imbrandon> ( same programs , just compiled for ppc )
<slytherin> xopher: but you can install it inside some virtual machine like qemu or bochs
<xopher> just making sure, since one guy was wondering if he could install i386 beryl packages ...
<slytherin> xopher: not sure about xen
<xopher> thanks for the response
<imbrandon> xopher: nope
<imbrandon> slytherin: no, xen is x86 and x86_64 only
<slytherin> imbrandon: thanks for enlightning me :-)
<imbrandon> btw moins all
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> man, I sure hope these IT clowns know what they're doing, my email could be going anywhere
<imbrandon> LaserJock: whats going on ?
<LaserJock> well you know how we had that server meltdown
<imbrandon> no i dident , ouch
<imbrandon> must have missed that on irc
<LaserJock> yeah, our Department web, email, everything server had a meltdown (RAID gone bad or something)
<imbrandon> mail server crash, hopefully only your uni mail ( smtp server usaly will keep mail and try to redeliver for 3 days in most cases thankfully though )
<LaserJock> anyway, the deparment, in it's glorious wisdom, has decided it doesn't want to maintian an email server anymore
<imbrandon> oh wow, and they had no redundant servers or anything ?
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> so the are moving us to a uni-wide email server
<LaserJock> *they
<imbrandon> ahh
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon
<LaserJock> which just so happens to be going through a server transition right now
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<imbrandon> LaserJock: wow, lots of bad luck
<slytherin> anyone here in bluetooth team in launchpad?
<LaserJock> so the department's gateway is supposed to forward the mail to the uni gateway (I think) which will then forward it to this new email server
<imbrandon> i thought about moving all my mail to the imbrandon.com server instead of the one here at my house, but i figured i might be getting a dedicated box for imbrandon.com soonish so i'm trying to hold off
<imbrandon> yea MX record trickery
<imbrandon> its great when it works
<LaserJock> sweet I got it
<imbrandon> but often one typo can make the whole thing loop
<LaserJock> it seems to actually work
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> well, I moved most of my email (mailing lists and @ubuntu.com) to laserjock.us
<imbrandon> good call , leaste you contyrol that if something dies
<imbrandon> thats what i did, i have most overything under the control of imbrandon.com even if its on diffrent servers etc
<LaserJock> yeah, my department's computing situation is pretty nasty
<LaserJock> they just hire a CS major to work part-time
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> wonderfull
<LaserJock> not that there is anything wrong with CS majors ;-)
<imbrandon> dont get me wrong some CS majors know whats up, but on the flip side , just about anyone can get a CS degree and not have a clue
<imbrandon> exactly :)
<LaserJock> but we were without email for 3 days
<LaserJock> and our website is still down
<LaserJock> and it's probably been 3 weeks to a month
<LaserJock> well, the website is on a different server
<imbrandon> i mean i've seen some CS majors in their 2 year and never even heard of linux , let alone ..... well i'll just not get into it, no offense to anyone but paper degree's mean little to me
* LaserJock sulks off to the corner with his paper :(
* ajmitch did CS
<highvoltage> imbrandon: :)
<ajmitch> that's why I learn from people like LaserJock & imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hahaha yea i dont mean all degree's are bad, its the ones that slip though that give them all bad names
<imbrandon> ( as with just about anything else for that matter )
<imbrandon> lol ajmitch
<LaserJock> I just need one more piece of paper
<LaserJock> that's all I'm asking for
<Adri2000> hey imbrandon, since you are in the main sponsors team, could you look at bug 72370 please
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72370 in pppoeconf "[Merge]  pppoeconf 1.12ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72370
<imbrandon> LaserJock: :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I have a pack of 500 for you?
<imbrandon> Adri2000: sure, give me about 5 more minutes to grab some mt dew and get settled into the computer chair for the day and i'll look
<LaserJock> then ya'll will have to call me Dr. LaserJock ;-)
<Adri2000> imbrandon: :-) thank you
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that sounds evil
<bhale> anyone here awesome with TCL?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hehe , Dr. MOTU-aholic LaserJock
<LaserJock> highvoltage: mwuahahaha
<imbrandon> bhale: StevenK is iirc, but dont tell him i said anything, he'll probably kill me :)
<LaserJock> "And then ... I will take over ... the WORLD!"
<imbrandon> hehehe
<AlexMBas> is anyone involved with vmware-player package aroud here ?
* LaserJock is quickly slapped back into reality as his boss yells "Get some data!" 
<bhale> StevenK: yeah?
<imbrandon> crimsun: ping
<ajmitch> bhale: may be a bit early in the morning for even StevenK
<bhale> hm
<imbrandon> crimsun: if you read the backlog http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33158/
<bhale> it would be 9pm for him i think?
<bhale> isnt he in the UK
<imbrandon> AU
<bhale> oh what a goof
<slytherin> dholbach: ping
<LaserJock> bhale: shesh ;-)
<bhale> LaserJock: ?
<LaserJock> bhale: mistaking AU for UK
<bhale> AU is very UK-ish
<LaserJock> true
<bhale> this SEEMS like the most newbie idiot thing in the world
<bhale> but ive been at it since lunch
* Laser_away runs
<highvoltage> laser... laser.. away!
<Laser_away> you know it
<dholbach> slytherin: pong
<slytherin> dholbach: are you busy?
<dholbach> slytherin: i'm back on the side of the planet i'm usually on and very tired
<dholbach> slytherin: can i help you?
<slytherin> dholbach: nothing urgent
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<Adri2000> imbrandon: don't care anymore of pppoeconf, just uploaded...
<imbrandon> Adri2000: kk
<slytherin> dholbach: I talked with giskard_ yesterday and he asked me to upload source, .dsc files for the vfs plugin that I packages. But he is not around today. I thought you would like to take a look.
<dholbach> slytherin: ah cool
<dholbach> slytherin: can you drop a mail to the team about it?
<dholbach> slytherin: i'm happy to take a look at it tomorrow
<dholbach> slytherin: is that ok with you?
<slytherin> dholbach: I have already done it.
<slytherin> dholbach: I am planning to submit it to REVU. But since it is my first try at packaging I thought it will be good if somone from bluetooth team could provide a feedback.
<Adri2000> I thought that describing the ubuntu changes when merging was now a policy (was a recommendation for edgy) :/
<AlexMBas> !packagingguide > AlexMBas
<dholbach> slytherin: thanks for working on this
<slytherin> dholbach: my pleasure. it was fun learning the packaging work.
<dholbach> super :-)
* dholbach hugs slytherin
<Admiral_Chicago> i've trying to work on packaging
<Admiral_Chicago> it's kind of confusing
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm looking at the guide now
<dholbach> Admiral_Chicago: that's great - if you can ask your questions here or on ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com - that'd be great
<dholbach> and I'm sure we'll find somebody who can answer your question
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: ditto dholbach, and don't forget to go out and buy the new Official Ubuntu Book, read the Ubuntu Packaging Guide a couple of times (so stop scanning it right now), read over all of the /MOTU stuff on the wiki, and get to know your tools
<dholbach> the motu mailing list is especially good because a lot of other benefit from the question and answer too
<nixternal> ya, the list is great!
<nixternal> and make sure you befriend crimsun as well, and also, make sure you send Laser_away (LaserJock) the $100 one time MOTU processing fee
<pygi> nixternal: don't scare people away ^_^
<nixternal> no, scaring away would have been $1000, thats why i kept it low ;)
<nixternal> here is a quick question, is it safe to allow multiple pbuilders to share the same aptcache?
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: that's what i'm doing
<Admiral_Chicago> i got confused by the chroot and pbuilder stuff
<Admiral_Chicago> but i haven't looked too hard at it
<lamont> ajmitch: I guess so...
* lamont will upload in a little bit
<lamont> is the suite edgy-proposed-updates?
<lifepositive> !topic
<ubotu> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<lifepositive> whats motu mean?
<lifepositive> !motu
<ubotu> motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<geser> lamont: first edgy-proposed then edgy-updates
<lamont> geser: ok
<geser> lifepositive: see also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Acronyms
* lamont wasn't positive on the name
<lifepositive> ok
<Adri2000> imbrandon: hmm, when I said just uploaded, I meant that someone else (mvo) uploaded his own merge, but that's ok, it's exactly the same merge as mine :)
<imbrandon> Adri2000: yea i seen it on -changes
<imbrandon> wb LaserJock
<lifepositive> imbrandon: thank you
<imbrandon> lifepositive: ?
<lifepositive> :)
* imbrandon missed something
<LaserJock> that was weird
<imbrandon> to say the leaste
<ajmitch> yeah..
* imbrandon looks up the gpg key
<Amaranth> heh
<ajmitch> this channel attracts strange people
<LaserJock> imbrandon: maybe he just likes you
<LaserJock> :-)
<imbrandon> lol
<Amaranth> he is doing weird things everywhere
<Amaranth> and following me :P
<imbrandon> not supriseing the gpg key isnt on a server
<zul> imbrandon: you have roupies
<zul> er groupies
<imbrandon> lol
* ajmitch fanboys
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't worry, we can still venerate you
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> you know, nobody's going to want to be a MOTU rockstar if they get treated like this ;-)
<imbrandon> hehehe
<LaserJock> ajmitch: do you know smurf?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I've met him a couple of times
<joejaxx> Hello MOTUians
<joejaxx> :)
<LaserJock> I wonder what he does, I don't see him around on IRC much
<ajmitch> loco teams stuff, he's not with canonical iirc
<ajmitch> zul_ should get a better internet connection :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<zul> ajmitch: talk to my wife
<LaserJock> oh
<imbrandon> or stop making the kernel panic
<LaserJock> I hear you there
<LaserJock> I just *barely* got DSL
<LaserJock> only because for 12 months they offered it for cheaper than dialup
<imbrandon> i just got a letter yesterday that for $10 more i can have 16/2 cable ( /me has 8.1 now )
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I hate you
<LaserJock> imbrandon: die!
* ajmitch has ~3.5/768 or so
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yea but its cable, i never actualy see those speeds
<ajmitch> depending on how well it can sync
<LaserJock> I have 1.5/300something
<imbrandon> and +10 == $49 a month :(
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> my gosh
<LaserJock> I think we might need a "Make a donation to zul's connection" link on the wiki page
<imbrandon> hrm i think it might be about time to restart the file server, its been up 72 days and something has all 96mb of ram eaten
<ajmitch> I think making a donation to get him an amd64 would be better
<imbrandon> ajmitch: +1 heh
<LaserJock> true
<ajmitch> imbrandon should talk to his sponsors :)
<zul> *sigh*
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> welcome back :)
<zul> meh..
<LaserJock> while you were gone we hijacked your Xen packages and replaced them with a He-Man wallpaper and an .ogg of Queen
<zul> cool i love queen
<imbrandon> ROFLMAO
<joejaxx> rofl
<joejaxx> LaserJock: hahahaha
<LaserJock> well, I'm a Ubuntu-holic MOTU
<LaserJock> http://www.laserjock.us/ubuntu/Screenshot.png
<imbrandon> hahah rock on
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sad, sad man
<joejaxx> lol
<lamont> ajmitch, siretart: libnss-ldap_251-5.2ubuntu1~proposed uploaded to edgy-proposed
<bddebian> Skeletor is a wuss, where's Beastman? ;-P
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<bddebian> and LaserJock, and ajmitch
<LaserJock> bddebian!!
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<ajmitch> lamont: great, I can't remember if we need to get approval from the appropriate MOTU team after a week
<ajmitch> but I'll test it later
<lamont> ajmitch: thanks
<lamont> it's a showstopper (or at least an annoyance) blocking upgrading the rest of the machines at my house.
<ajmitch> yeah, I'm glad you found the fix from upstream
<siretart> I really hope it enters main for feisty
<LaserJock> siretart: what?
<ajmitch> siretart: libnss-ldap? it'll be a definite requirement
<ajmitch> various specs need it in main,
<LaserJock> yeah, I wonder how large Main is going to get with feisty
<siretart> LaserJock: expect agressive demotions
<LaserJock> I imagine
<siretart> I'm preparing a plea to demote xine
<joejaxx> siretart: from main?
<siretart> joejaxx: yes
<LaserJock> Edubuntu's going to add a fair amount
<joejaxx> siretart: ah ok
<Lure> siretart: kubuntu needs it
<siretart> this could bite {k,x}ubuntu a bit, though
<siretart> Lure: please find a way do go without
<siretart> Lure: or find a way to promote ffmpeg to main
<Lure> siretart: no way as amarok does not have gstreamer
<siretart> Lure: without the ffmpeg plugin, amarok is pretty useless
<siretart> Lure: especially with 1.1.3, which I expect to enter feisty. that one uses the ffmpeg plugin even for ogg
<Lure> siretart: but this is why we have -extracodes or not?
<Lure> really?
<Lure> :-(
<siretart> Lure: not in main. and that's the problem
<siretart> I want to merge the -extracodecs package into the main package. the current situation is really a mess and a real PITA
<pygi> Lure: amarok actually does have gst ... it's just undermaintained
<siretart> oh, hy pygi!
* imbrandon looks up
<imbrandon> pygi: no it was dropped upstream
<pygi> hello siretart
<imbrandon> siretart: your doing what now?
<pygi> imbrandon: I know what it was, I was offered to work on it
<pygi> due to my involvement with Diva (which uses Gst)
<imbrandon> pygi: thats fine , but it wont be used in kubuntu or official in amarok for some months , so helps us none right now
<pygi> siretart: haven't ever looked in xine. What's bad in it?
<pygi> imbrandon: it actually wont be usable for some time, as I don't work on it
<pygi> imbrandon: but yes, I understand :-/
<Riddell> siretart: xine can't be demoted
<imbrandon> yea that would royaly screw most of kubuntu
<LaserJock> and that wouldn't be any good :-)
<ajmitch> I dunno... :)
<Riddell> ?
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon>  /maybe/ in feisty +2 when kubuntu is using 100% phoneon ( sp? ) but it would be a disaster before then
* ajmitch wonders how safe it'll be to upgrade to 2.6.19, and new nvidia drivers
<imbrandon> siretart: whats wrong with the way libxine-extracodecs splits ffmpeg out now ?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: l-r-m isnt avail yet
* imbrandon just got bit by that
<ajmitch> not built yet, or binary NEW?
<minghua> good afternoon
<imbrandon> NEW i think
<pygi> hey minghua
<bddebian> Heya minghua
<imbrandon> just not installable yet
* minghua stares at channel topic
<ajmitch> right
<imbrandon> The following packages have unmet dependencies: linux-restricted-modules-386: Depends: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.19-6-386 but it is not installable linux-restricted-modules-generic: Depends: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.19-6-generic but it is not installable vmware-player-kernel-modules: Depends: vmware-player-kernel-modules-2.6.19-6 but it is not installable
* ajmitch doesn't care about lrm for the laptop at least
<imbrandon> blah blah blah
<ajmitch> which has been running .19 for awhile
<imbrandon> yea my ibook has been running .19 for a week or more
<engla> good news everyone
<engla> I'm looking to upload http://www.student.lu.se/~cif04usv/wiki/dragbox.html to revu. I just added myself to the correct launchpad group etc and imported my key
<imbrandon> ?
<pygi> ajmitch, imbrandon : even more problems with cdrecord with .19
<ajmitch> pygi: I'm sure I was running .19 when I burnt a cd at UDS
<imbrandon> pygi: really? i just burned a dvd about an hour ago with k3b :)
<ajmitch> I may have been using a .17 xen kernel at the time
<pygi> imbrandon: perhaps, but problems will emerge
<pygi> ajmitch, imbrandon : I've found several issues already
<pygi> imbrandon: and dvd AFAIK uses growisofs
<ajmitch> imbrandon: binaries are available thorugh the twisty maze of launchpad
<pygi> imbrandon: tho almost same stuff =)
<ajmitch> of lrm
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ahh , no worries, i'll just wait for it to hit the archive, no big hurry to reboot
<imbrandon> for em
<imbrandon> me*
<ajmitch> yeah, I won't reboot until tonight at least
<imbrandon> hrm, i think i'm gonna write a blog entry
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> fanboy post?
<imbrandon> heh , new job post
<ajmitch> ah
<imbrandon> and other random cruft
* ajmitch still has to get the motivation to blog
* cbx33 just blogs when i find something interesting
<cbx33> wish I had a new job to blog about though :0
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i try to post atleaste once a week, sometimes its alot more though ( not lately )
<cbx33> I post about random stuff mostly, and at the moment about my sleepiness ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<cbx33> but I've gotten really motivated today
<cbx33> ;)
<pygi> cbx33: ^_^
<cbx33> hey pygi
<imbrandon> cbx33: you the one that setup the jabber in your school right ? rock on
<imbrandon> your*
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> indeed I am
<cbx33> I'm writing a bot for it too
<imbrandon> cool, yea , that was rockin, i was glad to read that
<cbx33> like one of those knowledge bots....
<imbrandon> ahh cool
<cbx33> like ..... !info store briefing Thismorningsbriefing....
<imbrandon> is it just for faculty or students or both ?
<cbx33> just faculty at the moment
<imbrandon> cool
<cbx33> then !info briefing.... and you'll get the result
<cbx33> so yeh it's going really well
<imbrandon> nice, yea like an irc bot
<cbx33> opening peoples eyes to OSS
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> I wrote one of those before....but this one is in my favorite language, python!!!
<cbx33> hehe
<imbrandon> dh lets me setup a jabber server, i thought about it but i would be the only one to use it
<imbrandon> heh, not many would want *@imbrandon.com :)
* ajmitch cringes at the versioning of prevu in feisty
* imbrandon cringes at prevu in feisty at all
<imbrandon> but thats another story
<ajmitch> 1:0.4.1bzr46-0ubuntu1
<imbrandon> yea the bzr thing?
<ajmitch> yeah, wonderful
<ajmitch> and and epoch
<zul> wtf is prevu?
<imbrandon> an epoc already ?
<ajmitch> yeah
<imbrandon> wow
<ajmitch> zul: backporter crack
<zul> oh fun
<cbx33> eeek!
<cbx33> heh
<LaserJock> wahoo, my lab just flooded :(
<ajmitch> someone left a tap on?
<LaserJock> nah, a grad student accidently turned the water on too hard
<LaserJock> popped the drain hose off
<LaserJock> and nobody noticed
<LaserJock> I was sitting here at my computer which is in the next room
<LaserJock> and noticed water coming out from under a desk by the wall
<imbrandon> wow
<LaserJock> yeah, it's going out into the hall a little now
<LaserJock> seems the drain is no longer the lowest place in the room :/
<imbrandon> leaste its only water, could be worse in a chem lab i bet
<Burgwork> LaserJock: aren't grad students fun?
<LaserJock> Burgwork: idiots :-)
<cbx33> awww that's mean ;~)
<cbx33> :p
<Burgwork> that isn't very CoC-friendly
<ajmitch> hello Burgwork
<Burgwork> hey ajmitch
<imbrandon> heay Burgwork
<LaserJock> Burgwork: yeah, well I'm no Kramer that's for sure ;-)
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> Mel "Kramer" Gibon
<LaserJock> anyway, I guess the Buildings and Grounds deparment is sending a cleanup crew
* ajmitch waves to Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee waves to ajmitch 
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ping
<imbrandon> pong
<imbrandon> moins Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you know what's up with python-qt4?
<imbrandon> no, other than -sip4 makes it uninstallable atm
<imbrandon> i havent looked into it much farther
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> ok, fine
<LaserJock> I'll just be content and wait
<imbrandon> Riddell might have , not sure, but either way i'll see if i can figure out the holdup soonish, its keeping kubuntu-desktop from being installable in feisty
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> that's my pickle at the moment
<LaserJock> I still have all the apps
<LaserJock> but my kubuntu-desktop got removed
<imbrandon> yea , upgrades are fine for the moment but a freshinstall will bork
<imbrandon> its been like that for 2 or 3 days now, i've just been messing with other things
<imbrandon> guess that should be a little higher priority
<Riddell> imbrandon: I've no looked at it, but it's high on my todo list
<imbrandon> Riddell: cool
<imbrandon> wow that blog post was alot longer than i expected
* imbrandon go's to do some real ubuntu work now
<imbrandon> GOES!
* imbrandon stops playing fujitsu
* ajmitch goes to read the blog post
<imbrandon> i duno if its on planet yet, you might have to goto my blog directly untill planet updates
<ajmitch> imbrandon: in your MoM replacement (which is what it reads like), can you please track critical debian bugs that are fixed in debian, but not in ubuntu?
<ajmitch> otherwise I'll have to hack something up :)
<imbrandon> i can see, yea its kinda a "uber mom"
<imbrandon> with other stuff mixed in
<ajmitch> I've been tempted to write up a bug check thing for awhile
<ajmitch> but never got around to it, as per usual
<imbrandon> yea my main thing is getting these scripts to run on my webserver, right now i'm at the point of a) run them on my local ubuntu server and sftp them or b) get a dedicated server at my new job and transfer my domain to a ubuntu box
<imbrandon> right now i can do certain things on my webserver as its debian based but no root and other niceitys
<LaserJock> imbrandon: so is this kinda like mdt?
<imbrandon> mdt? you mean the scripts i poched from you ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> they are lucas'
<imbrandon> yea , thats what i based most of this on, is those scripts, i've added some other stuff too
<LaserJock> cool
<imbrandon> hehe yea thats what gave me the idea that it would be usefull for alot of people
<bhale> hello.
<imbrandon> heya bhale
* ajmitch wonders if there's any useful way of pulling bug info from malone
<ajmitch> hello bhale
<imbrandon> ajmitch: +bugtext , but its not really machine readable
<bhale> you said useful and malone in the same sentence
<bhale> +3 karma
<imbrandon> thats one of the gripes fujitsu had
<ajmitch> back later
<bhale> bye
<pygi> bhale: just 3? :P
<engla> I uploaded my first package to revu an hour or two ago
<engla> but I haven't got any mails, is that alright?
<engla> how long does it take for uploads to be processed, I'm just curious if this worked or not. on the wiki it says 5 mins
<imbrandon> engla: you dont get a email conformatio of it, it should show up on revu after about 5 minutes
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-22
<imbrandon> if it worked
<imbrandon> engla: whats the package
<LaserJock> can you "subscribe" to a package in Debian's BTS?
<geser> yes
<minghua> LaserJock: yes
<geser> use packages.qa.debian.org/
<geser> to subscribe
<minghua> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch-resources.en.html#s-pkg-tracking-system
<engla> imbrandon: dragbox
<engla> v 0.2.3
<imbrandon> dragbox is not on REVU, so the upload dident work, did you have a REVU admin sync the keyring before you uploaded ?
<engla> imbrandon: nope
<minghua> hmm, I seem to be able to kill xchat-gnome easily by clicking on urls in the topic
<engla> imbrandon: but dput told me it was successful. But I have the same suspicion you have
<engla> imbrandon: any admin here to ask?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: sudo - revu1 revu-key update ?
<imbrandon> engla: one sec, doing it now
<engla> thank you!
<imbrandon> ajmitch: err sudo su - revu1 revu-key update
<minghua> didn't we have universe freeze and beta freeze the same time in edgy?
<LaserJock> minghua: xchat-gnome?
<minghua> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> why in the world are you using that? :-)
<minghua> what's wrong with xchat-gnome?
<DarkMageZ> because xchat crashes on exit often?
<minghua> ubuntu used to set xchat-gnome as the default irc client IIRC
<LaserJock> maybe's significantly improved
<LaserJock> it was pretty nasty
<DarkMageZ> i tried the dapper & edgy versions... it's still nasty
<DarkMageZ> either way, bug #57951 annoys xchat users, cept those who compiled their own packages from the new upstream version
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I've never had a problem with xchat :/
<DarkMageZ> hmm, well there's something trippy going on with alot of peoples edgy xchats
<LaserJock> weird
<minghua> xchat doesn't have any translations.  not it bothers me, but one thing to consider
<LaserJock> that's interesting
<minghua> I must say I like Konversation quite a bit after using it for a while
<LaserJock> yeah
<DarkMageZ> i pulled debians 2.6.8 and built that. i seriously can't replicate the bug after alot of testing
<minghua> but I still fell a little stupid to use a KDE app in GNOME
<LaserJock> minghua: you should try Edubuntu then ;-)
* imbrandon hugs konversation
* DarkMageZ hugs xchat from debian
<minghua> nah.  never used XFCE.  don't think I can adjust to it soon.
<LaserJock> minghua: Edubuntu is Gnome with KDE apps
<pygi> minghua: :p
<minghua> oh.  I was thinking of Xubuntu.
<DarkMageZ> isn't edubuntu for those educational centres of doom?
<DarkMageZ> also called schools
<LaserJock> not just schools
<LaserJock> but yeah
<minghua> what is the difference between Edubuntu and Ubuntu with kubuntu-desktop installed then?
<imbrandon> ltsp and all the edu software
<imbrandon> ( kubuntu dosent ship kdeu-* )
<LaserJock> minghua: it's more like Ubuntu with KDEEdu installed on it
<minghua> I see.  but I don't need LTSP.
<pygi> minghua: install workstation then
<pygi> but anyway, night all
<minghua> I think I can try KDE Edu stuff in Ubuntu just fine.  But thanks for the explanations.
<minghua> I have enough installation instances as is
<LaserJock> minghua: I was just saying that because of your comment about running KDE apps on Gnome
<minghua> LaserJock: I know.  But that really has nothing to do with distro choice
<minghua> I use GNOME everywhere
<minghua> I'm just familiar with it and know my way around
<LaserJock> but I wasn't saying anything about that
<minghua> what should I can the Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu/Xubuntu difference if I can't call them different distros?
<engla> siretart: hello. Can you sync the revu keyring? thanks
<LaserJock> generally they are called "flavors" or "partner projects" :-)
<LaserJock> but you apparently missed my joke or something
<minghua> I think I get it now.
<engla> ubuntu should arrange for a meeting place and a common name for 3rd-party (not supported) flavors. with a name that doesn't have -buntu in it
<minghua> you are not really suggesting me to try Edubuntu, I suppose
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I was merely pointing out that Edubuntu uses KDE apps on a Gnome desktop
<lifeless> minghua: you can call them different distros :). They are technically derivative distros
<LaserJock> lifeless: are they really though?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yes, they all have their own goals and such
<LaserJock> but they come from the same repos
<imbrandon> LaserJock: and dont HAVE to follow the same rules
<lifeless> LaserJock: they are closer than many derivatives will be,
<imbrandon> right they are close but still a derivtive
* plugwash thinks it would be best to think of them as different default installs of the same distro
<LaserJock> it's semantics I suppose, but I don't consider then derivatives
<imbrandon> look at the fact like edubuntu dosent have a live cd, they dont HAVE to play by the same rules 100%
<minghua> I think it's up to whether you call the whold ubuntu.com repo a distro or a meta-distro, then
<LaserJock> imbrandon: they do have a live cd and the are bound by the same ruls
<LaserJock> they are still governed by Ubuntu
<minghua> I personally prefer "flavor"
<LaserJock> me too
<imbrandon> not really, even if you look at specs like composite by default, that has -0- effect on kubuntu
<LaserJock> so
<imbrandon> and other such "rules"
<LaserJock> that's not a rule
<minghua> one problem with "flavor", though, is there is just no proper translation in Chinese
<imbrandon> like if ubuntu went to dvd distro only kubuntu wouldent have to foloow and vice versa
<LaserJock> they are still governed by the same body and come from the same repos
<minghua> we are already stretching the language a bit when translating "distribution" :-(
<imbrandon> that doesnt make them the same distro
<imbrandon> that makes ubuntu a meta
<LaserJock> that's why I say it's semantic
<LaserJock> I think distro means it comes from different repos
<imbrandon> if that is the case then you could call mepis a "flavor" as it ueses our repos and such ;)
<LaserJock> no they don't
<imbrandon> LaserJock: no
<imbrandon> sure they do
<minghua> mepis has there own additional repo
<imbrandon> look at their sources.list
<LaserJock> they "derive" from our repo
<imbrandon> minghua: right but thats only for the config, not the software
<imbrandon> LaserJock: your confusing repo and distro, they derive from our distro
<minghua> imbrandon: still, their configuration is not supported by Debian/Ubuntu (what are they using now?)
<LaserJock> I'm not confusing, I'm more like equating
<minghua> which makes things a bit different
<imbrandon> well equating wrongly , thus i used the word confusing
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> the upload rights, governence, and pretty much everything else is identical
<imbrandon> minghua: that makes them not supported by canonical yes, but dosent make them any farther from ubuntu than nubuntu or kubuntu
<LaserJock> the only difference is the end .iso
<imbrandon> and the goals , thats is the main thing for a distro, its path to the goal
<LaserJock> the goals are the same
<LaserJock> it's Ubuntu
<minghua> imbrandon: if an upload in ubuntu breaks a KDE package, we should fix it, right?
<imbrandon> no not 100%, they are very similar
<minghua> imbrandon: not so if it breaks some mepis config, I suppose
<imbrandon> minghua: that is a side effect of useing the same repo, not the same distro
<minghua> imbrandon: you call it side effect, I call it a main difference, I think we can agree to disagree then
<imbrandon> point being that even canonical them self says they are derivtives , thus diffrent distros
<minghua> I don't really mind the terminology (meta-distro/distro or distro/flavor), but I think the ubuntu-kubuntu connection is much more tight
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm not sure that they do, they call them "partner projects"
<minghua> compared with other derivative relationships
<imbrandon> yes very tight, but that still doesnet make them the same
<LaserJock> well no, we never said they were the same
<LaserJock> they are obviously different
<minghua> no point to argue about semantics, I think
<imbrandon> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/derivatives
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ^^
<imbrandon> they are all deritives, just some are "supported" by canonical
<LaserJock> well whatever
<LaserJock> I don't call them derivatives
<LaserJock> because I don't feel that they are
<LaserJock> that's fine
<imbrandon> i was just pointing out what you said canonical say they didnet :)
<imbrandon> but they do
<imbrandon> ( along with the long list of others )
<LaserJock> well, Canonical people have told me that they aren't using that term
<LaserJock> but I don't know
<imbrandon> heheh someone should inform the webmaster then :)
<minghua> I suppose not everyone has the same opinion inside canonical
<imbrandon> probably not
<LaserJock> well, it's not an easy thing to do
<imbrandon> just as we dont, it dosent make any of us wrong, thats the good thing
<LaserJock> "derivative" is the common word
<LaserJock> but Ubuntu is a bit unique in this respect
<imbrandon> well if its ubuntu but not the "offical" ubuntu that ships on the cd it was then derived from it , thus a dirvitive
<imbrandon> just as ubuntu is derived from debian
<imbrandon> even though we share ALOT of packages
<LaserJock> well, but it's all Ubuntu
<LaserJock> and it's broken down into various "flavors"
<imbrandon> no its not anymore ubuntu and ubuntu is debian
<imbrandon> s/and/than
<LaserJock> what the heck?
<imbrandon> ubuntu shares over 10k packages unmodified from debian , does that make us a debian "flavor"
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> becuase we have seperate repos
<LaserJock> seperate governence
<LaserJock> seperate lots of things
<imbrandon> again a repo dosent make a distro, look at lfs and gentoo, there is no REPO
<LaserJock> I'm not saying it's *just* the repo
<engla> how many of the packages in the default install are pure debian syncs?
<LaserJock> but that is a significant thing
<imbrandon> so does edubuntu and kubuntu each have their own CC, but answer to the CC
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> the CC and TB are the ultimate governence
<minghua> engla: depends on the flavor/distro your default install is :-P
<imbrandon> so they essentialy have diffrent governace too
<LaserJock> hell no
<minghua> engla: but I'll estimate 30% for ubuntu, just a wild guess though
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu CC has deligated to team CCs
<engla> ok, just interesting
<LaserJock> that's completely different then Debian/Ubuntu
<imbrandon> sure, the only time the CC steps in is if it affect ubuntu , if it only effects kubuntu then they have no say
<LaserJock> no
<imbrandon> sure, i sat in on the BoF for all the deligated CC teams , thats exactly what happens
<LaserJock> the CC has no say if it affects kubuntu? that completely wrong
<imbrandon> no i dident say that
<LaserJock> "if it only effects kubuntu then they have no say"
<imbrandon> i said if KCC makes a decession , the CC dosent ovride that unless it effects ubuntu
<LaserJock> that's wrong too
<LaserJock> they *can*
<imbrandon> howso ?
<LaserJock> they choose not to
<imbrandon> no they cant, not as part of their promis to the community
<LaserJock> where are you getting this?
<engla> imbrandon: no admins seem to be here, nonidling
<LaserJock> I was at the BOFs
<imbrandon> LaserJock: mostly from the BoF's and prior CC meetigs from memory
<imbrandon> that last part from marks mouth
<LaserJock> they CC and TB have ultimate authority, period
<LaserJock> s/they/the/
<LaserJock> well, if you discount mark's veto ;-)
<imbrandon> right but they have limits too
<LaserJock> only that they make themselves
<imbrandon> right and have done so
<LaserJock> fine
<LaserJock> they could also take that away
<LaserJock> it wouldn't be nice, but they could
<LaserJock> because they are the higher governing body
<imbrandon> not without breaking a promis to the community that would cause chaos
<ajmitch> all delegations of power can be revoked
<imbrandon> ajmitch: not the deligation
<ajmitch> imbrandon: if it were absolutely necessary, it would be done
<LaserJock> what I'm trying to say is that the CC and KCC are not equal
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i never said they were
<LaserJock> the CC may delegate to the KCC
<imbrandon> zomg you are missing the whole point now
<LaserJock> but I'm trying to say that it is not like Debian/Ubuntu
<imbrandon> its not, but that dosent make it and less a deritive
<LaserJock> Debian and Ubuntu have different "sovergn" governing bodies
<imbrandon> and thats the whole point
<LaserJock> I think that is part of what makes a derivative
<ajmitch> they they can take their ball & go home when they see fit?
<engla> ajmitch: hello. Can you sync the revu keyring? thank you
<LaserJock> governence, upload rights, and repos are a big part
<LaserJock> I can upload Kubuntu packages in Universe if I want
<LaserJock> because my upload rights are to Universe
<imbrandon> not in what makes a distro, look at the overall picture here, your looking at ubuntu / debian only
* gnomefreak cant remember where i read this (it was a day or two ago) kubuntu/x/ed are not derivatives of ubuntu they are part of ubuntu
<ajmitch> engla: already doing it
<imbrandon> lfs has no repo, or upload rights, same with slax , gentoo , suse etc etc etc etc , those qualities are for us only
<imbrandon> thus cannot detrrmine a distro
<LaserJock> imbrandon: not only, but give me another derivative where they derivative shares governence, repos, uploadrights
<LaserJock> s/they/the/
<imbrandon> LaserJock: the multitude of debian deritives
<LaserJock> no
<imbrandon> all the LFS deritives
<imbrandon> BLFS etc
<imbrandon> there are others
<imbrandon> again you have to look at the whole
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure about LFS
<LaserJock> I am
<imbrandon> what makes a distro , not the inner workings
<engla> ajmitch: great thanks
<LaserJock> what makes a distro, IMO, is the governence, repos/uploadrights
<imbrandon> right and like i said those are ubuntu only qualities, so what makes gentoo diffrent from fedora
<ajmitch> synced now
<LaserJock> governence, uploadrights, repos
<engla> thks
<LaserJock> same things
<LaserJock> if I were to make a derivative of Gentoo today
<imbrandon> if you look at what makes ubuntu diffrent from debian ( not the inner workings )( and what makes gentoo diffrent from suse, ubuntu and kubuntu share the same diffrences
<LaserJock> will they let me commit an ebuild to their repo?
<imbrandon> sure
<LaserJock> umm, no
<imbrandon> if you set it up that way
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> but in order to do it
<imbrandon> why not? i can commit to debian and redhat
<LaserJock> I would have to become a part of gentoo
<LaserJock> and fall under it's rules
<LaserJock> it's policies
<LaserJock> it's governence
<imbrandon> so with that thinking every DD in ubuntu isnt really a ubuntu person ?
<imbrandon> no
<LaserJock> ?
<LaserJock> why would I think that?
<imbrandon> like i said step away from the inner working s of how the distro is made, what makes suse diffrent from gentoo?
<imbrandon> you will find those same diffrences in kubuntun and ubuntu
<imbrandon> THATS what makes a deritive
<LaserJock> not most of them
<LaserJock> I'm not saying kubuntu and ubuntu are the same
<imbrandon> it dosent take most, it only takes 1
<LaserJock> no
<imbrandon> to be derived from the original
<LaserJock> I disagree
<imbrandon> so i can change something in ubuntu and call it ubuntnu ? and not a ubuntu deritive ?
<imbrandon> ubuntnu is not whats in the repo, its whats on the CD
<imbrandon> there is alot more than whats ubuntu in the repo
<imbrandon> infact alot of the repo is debian
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> Ubuntu is a Debian derivative
<LaserJock> so it share quite a bit of the same software
<imbrandon> exactly, and if i take a ubuntu cd and chage the wallpaper on it, it then becomes a deritive, no matter how small the change
<LaserJock> I wouldn't call that a derivative if it was done in the Ubuntu repos
<imbrandon> ubuntu is NOT whats in the repo, its whats on the CD
<LaserJock> i beg to differ :-)
<zul> heh fight fight fight
<LaserJock> ;-)
<imbrandon> so i can hand you a kubuntu cd and tell you to install ubuntnu ?
<imbrandon> that makes -0- sense
<LaserJock> ubuntnu?
<imbrandon> i might as well hand you a gentoo cd and say install kubuntu
<imbrandon> typo
<LaserJock> oh, then yes
<LaserJock> I run Edubuntu and Kubuntu on my machine
<LaserJock> I didn't use 2 discs
<imbrandon> no it shares alot of the same software ( as does ubuntu and debian ) but is not the same end product
<LaserJock> there are different products for sure
<imbrandon> then what do ytou call two products based on the same software ? deritives
<LaserJock> but in the same way a company can produces different products I don't think it's a stretch to say that a single distro can produce multiple products
<LaserJock> many distros have various "flavors"
<LaserJock> different .isos
<imbrandon> a flavor is a deritive by definition
<imbrandon> based on the same thing but diffrent
<LaserJock> it depends on how you look at it
<LaserJock> which brings us here :-)
<LaserJock> I think of derivative is a seperate linear progression
<imbrandon> right, maybe to the same goal , mabye not, but still derived from the same source
<LaserJock> whereas a flavor is variation within a single "thing"
<imbrandon> dosent mean the paths are the same
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'll go with you there
<LaserJock> my point for this is:
<imbrandon> so you just said by your own definition that kubuntu is a deritive
<LaserJock> I was calling *buntu derivatives
<LaserJock> but I realized that we really should have a distinction
<LaserJock> between a Debian/Ubuntu type derivative and a Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu/* kind of derivative
<LaserJock> as there are important distinctions we need to make as a project
<imbrandon> they are, they share the same base , and very very similar goals , but not the same path to get there, thus are derived from the base
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> all I'm arguing is semantics and how we bring this to the public
<LaserJock> an issue I see all the time is people saying "all this *buntu,  it's so harmful to Linux"
<imbrandon> well i think your trying to change the meaning of the word deritive, we shouldent do that as a project, they are by definition both deritives, BUT if you think as a project we should use another distinction then i'll bite
<LaserJock> right, that's why I said, I call it a flavor
<imbrandon> well flavor is even worse
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> technically they can be called derivatives
<LaserJock> I think flavor is closer, although not perfect
<imbrandon> because we're then a "flavor" of linux
<imbrandon> not ubuntu or debian
<engla> ajmitch: my first upload doesn't appear on revu, but now even after the keychain sync, It says it can't upload the files (says probably they are already there) does that mean problems, or will the package dragbox be processed?
<imbrandon> flavor is broader, but essential the same arguemnt
<imbrandon> engla: remove the .upload fiel from that dir and try again
<imbrandon> file*
<engla> imbrandon: it's not that
<LaserJock> well, I think of derivative as a definate split (different communities, different governence, etc.)
<engla> it's a ftp error 553, so it's in the remote end
<LaserJock> and flavors as different packaging
* imbrandon hugs LaserJock 
* LaserJock hugs imbrandon 
<LaserJock> you know I love you dude ;-)
<ajmitch> engla: please make sure you upload source-only packages in future
<imbrandon> heheh
<engla> ajmitch: okay. I didn't expect it to include the .deb, so I didn't know. I'll remember
<imbrandon> engla: the wiki tells you to upload the buld that uses -S -sa ( source only upload )
<engla> oh well. I had the correct file set, but one file too many. sure. But I didn't expect it to grab the binary file. After all, I didn't tell it to grab it, I only pointed it to the .dsc
<imbrandon> ajmitch: btw , lrm and friends are installable now
<LaserJock> imbrandon: coolio
<nixternal> hola compadres!
<lastnode> hey nixternal
<nixternal> hiya lastnode
* nixternal needs food
<rmjb> hey guys, your advice
<rmjb> for a vm for testing of packages, vmware or xen?
<zul> depends on what you run im partial to xen myself
* rendhalver is back
<rmjb> the main thing I'll want to do it to be able to revert to a fresh install, can do that in vmware with snapshots, xen has anything like that?
<zul> i have never used it but i would also go with what you have experience with
<superjon> How do you add the $Id: line in a file under svn? Is that autogenerated somehow via macro expansion or something?
<rmjb> zul: yeah, I figure I'll stick with the vmware for now... maybe by feisty's time I'll be comfortable with xen
<crimsun> imbrandon: debian 398666
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 398666 in flashplugin-nonfree "flashplugin-nonfree: download or license refused" [Grave,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/398666
<crimsun> imbrandon: which debconf interface is that install using?
<crimsun> StevenK: thanks.
<crimsun> gnomefreak: yes
<fbond> superjon, don't believe svn will do that for you.  It's not CVS.  See http://svnbook.red-bean.com/ .
<superjon> fbond: So how does that line get generated for files that are under version control like cvs
<fbond> Not sure.  Never used CVS.
<fbond> I think it comes from rcs or something
<fbond> The text manipulation isn't complicated.
<fbond> What are you looking for?
<fbond> maybe you want #svn
<minghua> superjon: it will get auto-generated if you tell svn to
<fbond> minghua, how does one tell svn to do that?  been using svn for a while, didn't know that was a possibility.
<joejaxx> anyone here good with rsync?
<Hawkwind> joejaxx: What are you wanting to know ?
<joejaxx> chron_: i need to know how to rsync a file off a remote server to the local directory
<fbond> minghua, at least, svn won't do $Revision
<joejaxx> without useing -e ssh
<joejaxx> using*
<Hawkwind> rsync -avze ssh --delete user@domain.com:/some/path/on/server /your/path/here
<minghua> fbond: http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.2/svn.advanced.props.html#svn.advanced.props.special.keywords
<Hawkwind> I'd leve out the --delete at first til you know what you want is right
<minghua> fbond: and according to that page it does $Revision$
<joejaxx> Hawkwind: without using ssh
<minghua> (unless you are using a different version of svn, I remember the accepted keywords changed somehow)
<fbond> minghua, ah, just found that myself.  sorry.
<Hawkwind> joejaxx: rsync -rltvHz rsync://domain.com/some/path/on/server /your/path/here
* joejaxx tries it
<Hawkwind> joejaxx: Need to make sure port 873 is opened/forwarded and /etc/rsyncd.conf is setup correctly
<joejaxx> uh
<Hawkwind> rsync and xinetd both need to be running, since rsync is a process of xinetd
<joejaxx> Hawkwind: does rsyncd run on ubuntu by default?
<Hawkwind> joejaxx: AFAIK it doesn't
<joejaxx> Hawkwind: i need rsync to act like wget really
<Hawkwind> joejaxx: I don't run an rsync server on my *Ubuntu box though.  It's all done on Mandriva
<minghua> ubuntu shouldn't run any server be default
<joejaxx> Hawkwind: i can rsync local directories fine
<Hawkwind> joejaxx: rsync is actually very very simple
<joejaxx> Hawkwind: i need to rsync an iso from one remote webserver to local
<joejaxx> Hawkwind: but the remote does not run rsyncd
<joejaxx> Hawkwind: should i just use wget?
<Hawkwind> joejaxx: It has to or you are forced to use ssh
<Hawkwind> joejaxx: Which was the first command I gave you
<joejaxx> Hawkwind: oh ok
<joejaxx> i thought so but i was not sure
<Hawkwind> I do most all of my rsyncs with ssh, makes life easier
<joejaxx> how does rsync work locally then without rsyncd?
<Hawkwind> Locally it doesn't need anything, because it's local
<joejaxx> ah ok
<Hawkwind> Hopefully that makes sense
<Hawkwind> Hah
<minghua> by reading the file system, I suppose?
<Hawkwind> It's once you go out of your box to any other box, be it local LAN or internet
<dooglus> JordiGH: type "mplayer dvd://1" to play DVDs
<Hawkwind> minghua: Basically, yes
<lifepositive> dooglus: why does my DVD drive takes ages to backup a CD?  i mean it takes 30mins per 5mins track
<fernando> hi all
<joejaxx> lifepositive: DMA?
<joejaxx> hello fernando
<lifepositive> joejaxx: DMA is ON
<lifepositive> joejaxx: any other ideas?
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> no i do not :(
<zul> meh i think im going to watch uhf
<dooglus> lifepositive: I've no idea.  I never tried doing that.
<Hawkwind> joejaxx: Get your rsync going ?
<dooglus> anyway, what am I doing here?  I thought this was #debian!
<joejaxx> Hawkwind: its a public server which is why i could not use ssh
<joejaxx> Hawkwind: i just used wget
<Hawkwind> joejaxx: Ah ok
<lifepositive> dooglus: ok
<imbrandon> ...
<ajmitch> !?
* imbrandon is at his lug meeting , for another 10 minutes or so
<ajmitch> boring?
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch hasn't been to a lug meeting here for > a year or more
<imbrandon> anyhow, packing up, on my way home
<ajmitch> bye
* bddebian has never been to one
<bddebian> Gnight imbrandon
<ajmitch> glad you could grace us with your presence, even if only for a few minutes
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> bddebian: how've you been?
<bddebian> Wiped man.  You?
<LaserJock> same
<LaserJock> my lab flooded today
<LaserJock> amongst other things
<rmjb> where are you LaserJock, in AU also?
<LaserJock> rmjb: hehe, no
<bddebian> LaserJock: I saw that.. Bummer man :-(
<LaserJock> rmjb: western US
<LaserJock> bddebian: it was kinda funny, at least it wasn't my fault :-)
<rmjb> oh... well flooding anywhere sucks... unless the place had a drought
<bddebian> LaserJock: You mean you didn't burn a hole in some water pipes with your laser? ;-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: no
<LaserJock> I did cook a vacuum pump though :/
<bddebian> doh
<knix> Are there any plans to build mpd with aac/mp4 support?
<crimsun> no.
<Burgundavia> mpd
<crimsun> this is the second time it has been asked.
<Burgundavia> !mpd
<ubotu> mpd: Music Player Daemon. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.12.1-1ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 123 kB, installed size 392 kB
<Burgundavia> universe stuff cannot depend on multiverse
<LaserJock> wb ajmitch
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: you around?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: pong
<imbrandon> i am now
<imbrandon> just got home from our lug meeting
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: got time to write up a bit of the KDE-related uploads for UWN?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: sure, let me just grab a soda and settle into my chair, then i can
<Burgundavia> ok
<LaserJock> wow
* LaserJock runs away
<crimsun> good time to do so, I might add.
<LaserJock> yeah, I just saw something on the forums
<LaserJock> I knew I shouldn't have looked at the feisty subforum
<crimsun> imbrandon: did you resolve the debconf issue?
<LaserJock> stupid me
<imbrandon> crimsun: kinda but not really
<crimsun> aka "no".
<imbrandon> i removeed it and reinstalled it but still had another issue
<crimsun> ...which is?
<imbrandon> but i'm not at that computer atm
<imbrandon> but i have it saved in a txt file for you
<imbrandon> for when i do get back to it
<crimsun> please file a bug report, thanks
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> btw heya crimsun :)
<imbrandon> ( and LaserJock )
<crimsun> 'lo
<StevenK> imbrandon: What gave you the impression I knew anything about TCL? :-P
<imbrandon> StevenK: wasent it you that does TLC for a job ?
<imbrandon> i probably was mistaken
<imbrandon> TCL*
<StevenK> About the only thing I can say about TCL is that I can spell it.
<imbrandon> hahah ok i was mistaken then :)
<imbrandon> someone in here programs with it for a living, i just forgot who, thought it was you
<dholbach> good morning
<elkbuntu> hi dholbach :)
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Must have been something you said.
<elkbuntu> StevenK, must have been :(
<elkbuntu> woohoo
<StevenK> elkbuntu: *hint*
<elkbuntu> dholbach, hi again.. please dont run away this time :
<dholbach> hey elkbuntu
* dholbach hugs elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> yay!
* elkbuntu hugs dholbach
* ajmitch hugs dholbach 
* dholbach hugs ajmitch back
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
* ajmitch reboots & hopes his box comes back up :)
<ajmitch> yay
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: I had a hard lock today
<ajmitch> unfortunate
<ajmitch> but I just booted as far as initramfs failing with a xen kernel
<ajmitch> which is some progress
<Burgundavia> probably caused by gobby
<ajmitch> hm, it'd be nice if compiz ran
<ajmitch> since I went to the effort of upgrading to the latest l-r-m
<crimsun> imbrandon: ping, do you have a feisty/i386 pbuilder (alternately, a possible ssh acct to one)?
<Burgundavia> crimsun: do you need access to one?
<crimsun> Burgundavia: I'd like to have access to one, yes
<Burgundavia> how urgent is the need?
<imbrandon> crimsun: yes
<imbrandon> one sec lemme setup the account
<crimsun> Burgundavia: not critical, just need it for building packages that I can test locally before I chuck the source at soyuz
<minghua> Ugh.  This firefox password manager bug is really nasty.
<Burgundavia> welcome to FF
<nixternal> anyone up on revu'ing -> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3518 <- thanks!
<Burgundavia> nixternal: ever hopeful
<nixternal> gotta be ;)
<nixternal> since the doc side of things is slow, might as well spend my time doing something constructive, instead of destructive
<nixternal> patching file ./Modules/FindQt4.cmake
<nixternal> Unreversed patch detected!  Ignore -R? [n] 
<nixternal> ey?
<ajmitch> crimsun: if you could stand a slowish connection, I've got one as well
<minghua> It's not easy to get a login on a sparc machine, is it?  As I have a build failure only on sparc (or ia64/sparc/hppa on Debian).
<ajmitch> minghua: not currently easy
<ajmitch> you'd have to hunt around for a friendly hacker with ubuntu on sparc
<minghua> thanks for the answer.  I think I'll leave it to the Debian maintainer then :-P
<ajmitch> so the bug exists on debian as well?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ping
<minghua> yes.  some segfault of a binary built by its own.
<minghua> a bit curious that the same segfault happens on Debian/ia64 but not on Ubuntu/ia64 though
<imbrandon> ajmitch: pong
<imbrandon> minghua: what about ubuntu/hppa ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: got working, sane beryl debs?
<minghua> we have hppa?
<ajmitch> not really
<ajmitch> hppa has never quite been there
<imbrandon> working isnt waht i would call it, but there are buildd's iirc
<minghua> well, at least LP knows nothing about the buildd
<imbrandon> ajmitch: no, i havent touched them since uds, guess i should
<minghua> so I don't know either
<imbrandon> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/hppa
<minghua> it seems said package haven't be tried to built on hppa since June then, it seems
<minghua> since May, actually
<minghua> the June binary is just taken from dapper when edgy opened
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3519   <- needs some revu loving. Thanks!
<ajmitch> more revu spam...
<ajmitch> sigh :)
<nixternal> hehe
<ajmitch> a -1ubuntu1 version
<ajmitch> so why is this on revu?
<ajmitch> it's best to put updates to existing packages as debdiffs on malone
<nixternal> it was in the merge list, and i grabbed it
<imbrandon> revu is mainly only for NEW stuff though
<imbrandon> malone for sponsor stuff
<Fujitsu> nixternal: That's one of mine, and was waiting on a dependency last time I checked.
<Fujitsu> (I have an upload prepared already)
<nixternal> roger Fujitsu, ignore that then
* nixternal stops
<crimsun> rich floats and is a witch, burn him!
<ajmitch> general practice is that the person who touched it last does it, unless you contact them & get ok
<imbrandon> hehe
<nixternal> roger
<ajmitch> just to avoid the duplication of effort like in this case
<imbrandon> ok my eyes are closing, back in a few /me needs a small nap
<ajmitch> hello lloydinho_
<lloydinho_> hey ajmitch!
<Fujitsu> Morning, Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu.  it's not morning.
<Fujitsu> Close enough.
<Hobbsee> heh
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Like you see morning until you get up.
<Fujitsu> Maybe.
<\sh> moins
<joejaxx> hey everyone
<joejaxx> does bcm43xx cutter work with the pci broadcom cards? ie the firmware is bcmw15a instead of bcmwl5
<joejaxx> i forget whether bcm cutter is specific to the bcmwl5
<joejaxx> or not
<zul_> argh is the filter devel-list coming anytime soon?
<jonh_wendell> Hi, folks
<jonh_wendell> can someone have a look at fala - https://launchpad.net/products/fala for universe?
<slytherin> jonh_wendell: Have you developed it?
<jonh_wendell> slytherin, yes
<slytherin> jonh_wendell: SO you want help from one of the motus to package it, right?
<jonh_wendell> hmmm, i'm not a motu, how can i help?
<jonh_wendell> slytherin, is it possible fala get in universe?
<slytherin> jonh_wendell: Neither am I. I am trying to be one.
<geser> you can package it, upload it to revu and let someome review it
<slytherin> jonh_wendell: Sure it is possible. You will have to learn the packaging and upload it to revu.
<jonh_wendell> slytherin, it's already packaged (in .deb)
<geser> if all problems are fixed in your package a motu will sponsor the upload to universe
<jonh_wendell> geser, it's already packaged (in .deb), how to upload it?
<geser> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
* jonh_wendell is reading
<PriceChild> jonh_wendell: This came in a deb... You're not allowed to upload binary though. you may like to look at the time &  effort i'm making on my first package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3503
<dholbach> jonh_wendell: we only do source uploads - so you'll have to upload the .orig.tar.gz, the .dsc and the .diff.gz (debuild -S -sa and dput will help you there)
<jonh_wendell> the problem is: i don't have an orig.tar.gz. I developed this app for ubuntu...
<jonh_wendell> orig.tar.gz == directory minus debian dir ?
<gnomefreak> is flash 9 still beta?
<slytherin> jonh_wendell: Assuming that it uses make for build compile, make dist should create tarball.
<jonh_wendell> slytherin, i don't use autoconf stuff
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jonh_wendell> dholbach,  the problem is: i don't have an orig.tar.gz. I developed this app for ubuntu...
<jonh_wendell> dholbach,  orig.tar.gz == directory minus debian dir ?
<dholbach> jonh_wendell: just make a tarball without debian/ and call it project_version.orig.tar.gz
<dholbach> yes
<jonh_wendell> right
<PriceChild> jonh_wendell: You'll have to still check the debian on your normall tar to ensure its up to standards.
<PriceChild> It may not be as easy as just uploading it
<jonh_wendell> :)
<jonh_wendell> i'm getting trouble with sign of package... http://pastebin.com/830602
<jonh_wendell> any idea?
<geser> are you using gpg-agent?
<geser> if yes, try without gpg-agent
<jonh_wendell> geser, did you mean ssh-agent?
<geser> no, gpg-agent
<jonh_wendell> geser, how to disable it? i don't know if i'm using it
<geser> if you use it you have a line "use-agent" in your gpg.conf
<jonh_wendell> geser, it passed
<jonh_wendell> geser, thanks, let's go to the next step!
<jonh_wendell> package uploaded
<jonh_wendell> and now?
<jonh_wendell> must i login at motu web page?
<jonh_wendell> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3522
<jonh_wendell> i'm going to lunch, i'll be back sooner
<teledyn> hello, i want to take the ubuntu 2.6.17-10-generic source and customize it.
<teledyn> there are several problems.  one is i don't see a .config.
<teledyn> so where do i go about customizing it with my own config?
<teledyn> and should i try using apt-build instead?
<teledyn> ah i think i figured it out
<jonh_wendell> can someone review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3522 ?
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: I'm not a motu but: first the version is wrong, it should be 0.1-0ubuntu1
<lucas> also, you seem to be doing nasty things with .svn dirs
<lucas> they should not be in the package
<nixternal> ya, just noticed the .svn
<nixternal> for the scr/ data/ and po/ probably need to poke the dev and let them know about it..but the debian/.svn gets me
<joejaxx> nixternal: the real amount of memory being used is : used - cached = real amount right?
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: the debian directory is from you of from upstream?
<nixternal> hrmm...that sounds right
<joejaxx> nixternal: oh alright
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, yes, that package is for ubuntu
<lucas> your debian/copyright file is wrong. refer to other examples
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: so why debian/.svn/ ?
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, i have do delete it...
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: you used subversion when making the package maybe?
<Adri2000> yes, sure, shouldn't be there
<joejaxx> nixternal: alright thanks
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: also, debian/compat should be 5 and build-dep on debhelper should be >= 5.0.0
<nixternal> joejaxx: what about the physical memory though?
<nixternal> physical memory + cached - used?
<nixternal> actually, nevermind, im thinking on a virtual perspective there
<jonh_wendell> lucas, can i get as example any debian/copyright from any package?
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, how do i change version to 0.1-0ubuntu1?
<Adri2000> in the changelog entry
<joejaxx> nixternal: used - cached = the real amount of ram being used
<lucas> jonh_wendell: look in /usr/share/doc/
<nixternal> got it
<lucas> lots of them in it
<jonh_wendell> lucas, right
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: ala (0.1-1) unstable should be ala (0.1-0ubuntu1) feisty
<nixternal> joejaxx: than i would have to say that is correct
<Adri2000> +f (fala)
<joejaxx> nixternal: alright thanks
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: the date of the changelog seems wrong, 1 september... standards-version should be 3.7.2.2 iirc
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: for the copyright file, you can use dh_make -c gpl
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: are you using edgy or dapper?
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, edgy
<Adri2000> the debhelper in edgy adds at the end of the copyright file something saying that you are the package, but "copyright holder" is upstream
<Adri2000> s/package/packager/
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, dh_make not found
<Adri2000> uh? how did you create all the files in debian/ ?
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, by hand
<Adri2000> lol :p debhelper is your friend ;-) it is really helpful
<Adri2000> sudo apt-get install it
<pygi> sivang: ping
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: then restart your package at 0, get the upstream tarball, rename it (.orig.tar.gz), extract it, cd in the directory created, and use dh_make (see man dh_make) :)
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, i'm the upstream
<Adri2000> ok, so in debian/copyright you are the "copyright holder"
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, yes
<PriceChild> Hobbsee|Remote:  :D
<joejaxx> Adri2000: dh_make is great :D
<Adri2000> :p
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, Standards-Version: 3.7.2.2 iirc ??
<Adri2000> yes, if i recall correctly it's 3.7.2.2
<jonh_wendell> with 'iirc' also?
<joejaxx> if i recall correctly
<joejaxx> if i recall correctly = iirc
<jonh_wendell> ah
<joejaxx> yeah do not worry it took me a while to get all the irc acronyms also
<joejaxx> especially afaik
<joejaxx> or whatever that one is
<jonh_wendell> when i correct the error, just upload again?
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000,  when i correct the errors, just upload again?
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: yes, with dput -f
<jonh_wendell> can you check again: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3525
<pygi> PriceChild: ping
<PriceChild> hey pygi :)
<PriceChild> How's things?
<sivang> pygi: pong
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, lucas, geser, can you check it again: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3525
<lucas> copyright still wrong
<lucas> - you should link to /usr/share/doc/common-licences like other packages do
<lucas> - the first paragraph ("This program is ...") is not correct english
<lucas> your short description should not begin with "A" and is unclear, and your long description is too short
<lucas> if similar software already exist, it would be great to state how this one is better/different
<jonh_wendell> lucas, i did not understand what you mean 'link to ...'
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: use dh_make for the copyright file
<lucas> use /usr/share/doc/coreutils/copyright as an example
<lucas> you cannot say "either something" and not say "or something else"
<jonh_wendell> lucas, is it correct now? http://pastebin.com/830748
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, i have used dh_make this time, can you check?
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, http://pastebin.com/830748
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: waiting for pastebin to load...
<jonh_wendell> :)
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: yeah, seems fine, and you can remove the <> around the url
<jonh_wendell> finally...
<jonh_wendell> let's change the package description now...
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, lucas, geser anything else? more errors?
<Adri2000> jonh_wendell: python policy :)
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, where?
<Adri2000> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<Adri2000> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<jonh_wendell> Adri2000, do i have to do all those things?? oh no
<Adri2000> ehehe, yes ^^
<Aualin> Hi, i got some problems with REVU... When i shall decrypt my password i type my pass for gpg, and it goes fine. But i dont get anything expect what key i was using... Any ideas?
<jonh_wendell> lucas, i see a lot of packages which short description starts with 'A'
<lucas> your description is totally unclear
<jonh_wendell> lucas, i agree :)
<jonh_wendell> lucas, Adri2000, can you help me with a good description? the software is just a frontend to festival
<lucas> aren't there other frontends for festival already ?
<jonh_wendell> lucas, i found none, that's why i wrote this one
<lucas> it just allows to read a text file ?
<jonh_wendell> lucas, yes
<lucas> what's the difference with festival --tts /etc/motd
<lucas> ?
<jonh_wendell> lucas, the gui
<jonh_wendell> just the gui
<lucas> so you have to mention this in the description
<lucas> mmmh
<lucas> what's the point of the GUI for festival, anyway ?
<lucas> is it easy to use for blind people ?
<lucas> I thought most blind people were using console apps because it was easier with braille terminals
<jonh_wendell> lucas, i'm a brazilian guy. Sometimes we need to hear some word or phrase to understand
<chantra_> hi there, does anybody is in charge of motu-reviewers mailing list?
<lucas> ok
<lucas> mmh, it's difficult to describe
<jonh_wendell> :)
<lucas> put pointing out this use case might be a good idea
<jonh_wendell> the description in SF: A simple software that speaks a text. You can type the text or appoint a file. Fala is just a frontend to festival. It's designed for GNOME, but if you have gtk, pyhton and festival you are able to run it.
<lucas> a description on sf.net is not necessarly good ;)
<jonh_wendell> lucas, i wrote that one, anyway...
<lucas> is it multi-lingual ?
<jonh_wendell> lucas, yes
<lucas> Description: graphical simple speech synthesis application
<jonh_wendell> lucas, really? it's a very complicated description
<lucas> it's just a suggestion
<lucas> but you should probably use speech somewhere
<lucas> look at festival's description
<jonh_wendell> lucas, description: simple text reader (speech synthesis)
<lucas> do what you want
<jonh_wendell> lucas, can description have '(' and ')' ?
<lucas> you would be the first, I think
<lucas> not sure of my grep-dctrl expression tho
<lucas> now I'm sure, and you would be the first
<PriceChild> Hi there
<lucas> even in the long description
<PriceChild> ping: LaserJock
<jonh_wendell> lucas, after correct those errors and upload again, what do i have to do? just wait?
<lucas> wait for others to review it, yes
<lucas> I don't review REVU packages
<engla> I wonder. The lintian report on REVU is completely different from the report on my local machine
<engla> *I wonder:
<engla> now I get much more serious warnings from the revu lintian, how do I "equalise" their behaviour
<jonh_wendell> lucas, ok, package uploaded, let's wait now
<jonh_wendell> btw, how do i change my password in revu?
<geser> jonh_wendell: I see fala is a python program, have you read the Debian python policy?
<Sobert> Hi, how can I ask the motu-SRU team for a rebuild of libapache2-mod-mono ?
<geser> what's the problem with this package?
<Sobert> it's the wrong version
<Sobert> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mod-mono/+bug/65454/
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65454 in mod-mono "[UNMETDEPS]  mod-mono has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<Sobert> it's version 1.1.13 instead of 1.1.17
<geser> have you verified that a rebuild fixes it?
<Sobert> a members of MOTU-team has told me so
<bhale> going to version 1.1.17 is not a rebuild
<Sobert> the man who told me so is tagged as administrator, I can't say by myself if it's a rebuild or not
<Sobert> the fact is that all mono packages on edgy are in 1.1.17 except this one, that all I can say
<bhale> i understand
<jonh_wendell> geser, yes, i've read and tried to follow it :)
<geser> bhale: edgy has mod-mono 1.1.17 as source, the binary debs FTBFS
<bhale> mod-mono is pretty much a redheaded step child for us, no one on the mono team uses it
<geser> Sobert: read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU and file a SRU request
<bhale> if someone wanted to work on it before releases, that would be fantastic
<Sobert> ok geser, thanks a lot
<geser> I see now what the problem was for the FTBFS, it build-depends on apache-dev and apache2-dev which uses different libdb4.x-dev which can't be installed at the same time
<geser> the problem is fixed now
<geser> I didn't try but it should build now
<bhale> it was not fixed in time for us to get it right before release
<geser> apache got reverted back to libdb4.3 short before release
<geser> we still have a php4 with security bugs in edgy
<bhale> in universe
<bhale> feel free to provide a debdiff to fix security bugs
<bhale> universe has no guarantee of support
<geser> it's bug 65266
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65266 in php4 "[UVF Exception]  Sync php4 4.4.4 from Debian unstable" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65266
<LaserJock> php4 is in Universe?
<bhale> yes
<bhale> and the UVF exception is not a debdiff to fix a security issue in the stable release
<LaserJock> interesting, I guess I would have assumed it was in Main
<bhale> php5 is in main.
<LaserJock> ah
<geser> it was filed before release
<geser> but got hold by the apache/apache2 problem
<bhale> yes, the release has come and gone
<bhale> the UVF will not be granted
<bhale> you might be able to convince the security team that it is easier to upload the new version than a diff, security changes only
<geser> it would be change from php4 4.4.2 to 4.4.4 and fix 4 CVEs
<geser> I should ask motu-sru how to proceed with php4
<bhale> no, you should ask ubuntu security
<bhale> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<bhale> not a UVF or an SRU
<geser> are security fixes for universe also handled by the security team after release?
<bhale> yes
<geser> I've looked at the debian changelog for php4 and found a 5th CVE
<LaserJock> awesome, major Feisty breakage
<ajmitch> what breakage?
* ajmitch hasn't seen anything fun recently
<LaserJock> X gone and keyboards unusable
<LaserJock> something about udev rules
<LaserJock> I'm just reading the forums
<LaserJock> hahaha
<ajmitch> oh right
<ajmitch> well I last upgraded a bit over 12 hours ago & everything works
<LaserJock> ah yeah, they had to upgrade coreutils
<zul> coreutils also
<ajmitch> and what's wrong with that?
<ajmitch> coreutils is buggy?
<LaserJock> they couldn't type
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> so they had to chroot in
* ajmitch upgrades to the latest
<ajmitch> they deserve the breakage :)
<ajmitch> I bet the "ZOMG X iz dead!!!11" is from lrm stuff
<LaserJock> "the devs are about to lose a tester here if they don't fix this soon... i need info on how to downgrade to edgy..."
<LaserJock> hahaha
* ajmitch sees no udev update, and everything works fine here
<ajmitch> that's great!
<ajmitch> so did anyone file a bug against coreutils?
<ajmitch> ah, bug 72914
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72914 in coreutils "coreutils package causes MAJOR breakage" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72914
<zul> see thats why you idle on irc before upgrading
<bhale> we don't need a tester that is just going to blackmail us
<ajmitch> full of useful info
<LaserJock> "the devs should never have released these packages to the repos... when can't they just put the old packages back with the version number updated??? this is FUBAR"
<LaserJock> this just made my day!!!
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> I'm sorry they had breakage, honest ;-)
<thom> geez
<ajmitch> same person there
<zul> gah
<ajmitch> I see mvo fixed coreutils fairly quickly as well
<ajmitch> excellent, gnome-panel freeze
<PriceChild> ping LaserJock
<LaserJock> pong PriceChild
<PriceChild> LaserJock: sorry i wasn't on to discuss forumirc things yday... something came up. Are you free for a little chat now?
<ajmitch> hehe
<LaserJock> PriceChild: I'm in a meeting right now
<LaserJock> maybe a little later
<PriceChild> LaserJock: no problem, Thanks :)
<PriceChild> Any motu in here feel like nitpicking at my upload? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3503 :)
* ajmitch gets the knives out
<ajmitch> +Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.9.0), libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libcairo2 (>= 1.0.2-2), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.3.0), libglade2-0 (>= 1:2.5.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.10.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.8.0), liblame0 (>= 3.96.1-1), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.12.3), libx11-6, libxcursor1 (>> 1.1.2), libxext6, libxfixes3, libxi6, libxinerama1, libxml2 (>= 2.6.24), libxmu6, libxrandr2, libxrender1, zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1)
<ajmitch> bad, bad badness
<ajmitch> ${shlibs:Depends} takes care of all that
<PriceChild> Sorry...
<ajmitch> rather than duplicating everything & having to manually maintain the library dependencies
<PriceChild> someone said dependencies were missing... so i assumed I had to put those in...
<ajmitch> several build-depends, it was said
<PriceChild> That's definately all the dependencies for the package... so i'm confused as to what they were referring to then...
<PriceChild> Thanks for looking though ajmitch :)
<PriceChild> ajmitch: oh they were referring to build dependencies... Hmm not sure which are missing :S
<ryanakca> anybody have a link for a howto on "merge"-ing?
<LaserJock> let's see
<LaserJock> there's some old stuff in the packaging guide
<LaserJock> and crimsun's School session on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School
<ryanakca> kk, ty
<PriceChild> Is there anything else to comment on ajmitch?
<ajmitch> PriceChild: no idea, I'm busy at work sorry :)
<PriceChild> ajmitch: thanks for help :)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<sistpoty> anyone wanting to merge ire for me? should be a very easy merge (just s/liballegro-dev/liballegro4.2-dev/ for build-dependencies)
<ajmitch> sure
<sistpoty> :)
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<Sp4rKy> does anyone test the qucs package ?
<Sp4rKy> some funtcionnalities depend of freehdl-config software
<Sp4rKy> which isn't in repoo
<Sp4rKy> -o
* ajmitch wonders if launchpad bug mail broke
<mr_pouit> yes, I don't have mail anymore since this morning :/
<hazart> FEISTY BROKEN: Could anybode please triage this bug, as it's breaking feisty at the moment: https://bugz.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/coreutils/+bug/72917
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72917 in coreutils "coreutils_5.97-5.2ubuntu2_i386.deb have broken the X and network." [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<hazart> Hehe, funny thing we posted at the exact same time about the exact same problem.
<gnomefreak> hazart: coreutils was uploaded again i think its the fix
<Laser_away> hazart: Ubugtu is a IRC bot
<gnomefreak> hazart: there were 2 coreutils updates today last one i got about an hour ago or so
<hazart> Ahh, oups.
<gnomefreak> i never found a problem with coreutils but others have all i know is it was uploaded again
<Laser_away> yeah, I believe it was fixed some time ago
<hazart> Okay, it has been an issue for both i386 and amd64.
<hazart> Could you then change the status of the bug?
<gnomefreak> hazart: once i know it was fixed
<gnomefreak> hazart: i didnt have an issue so im not sure if its fixed
<hazart> According to launchpad, we have only two releases today: one at 09:03 UTC, and one at 17:03. The last one is the one to introduce the breakage.
<gnomefreak> hazart: the first one broke a few people
<hazart> Okay, but supposedly the last one does also break some...
<ajmitch> hazart: can you confirm that it breaks things for you, not just what others have said?
<hazart> A lot of devices disappeared from /dev, so yes, alot of stuff is broken.
<ajmitch> definitely with 5.97-5.2ubuntu2?
<hazart> Two seconds i'm just gonne chmod in there to check.
<sistpoty> yay, X is broken, and I'm not affected :) *phew*
<gnomefreak> sistpoty: give it time :)
<hazart> root@home:/# dpkg -l|grep coreutils
<hazart> ii  coreutils                                  5.97-5.2ubuntu1
<gnomefreak> hazart: update it
<hazart> Yes, you were right.
<hazart> I had the old one.
<sistpoty> gnomefreak: ha, but I got a hint know what package *not* to upgrade *g*
<gnomefreak> ;)
* gnomefreak upgrades everything than works around it
<hazart> gnomefreak: but i'm puzzled. The time that i wrote the forum post was after the release was published. But i guess you work quicker than launchpad and the forums anyways.
<ajmitch> hazart: there's a delay between the upload of the package, and being built & on the mirrors
<hazart> And i suppose also that there are a delay between.
<hazart> Nice, i have now updated. I'll just boot it and see if it fixes stuff. And i'll be back with the answer.
<hazart> Thanks for your time.
<gnomefreak> hazart: let us know
<gnomefreak> ok so what did 2ubuntu2 break?
<ajmitch> it didn't
<ajmitch> it was the fix, people mistakenly thought it broke things
<Laser_away> so is X still borked?
<ajmitch> no
<Laser_away> or was that coreutils too
<johan_> Johan = Hazart
<ajmitch> all coreutils interacting with udev
<johan_> I can confirm that the newest coreutils release is working.
<ajmitch> good
<johan_> I'm one happy feisty user again :D
<Laser_away> hehe
<Hazart> I'm wondering, since this is the MOTU chat, if i'm allowed to ask why eclipse and azureus (java-swt) has been broken for such a long time now, both in edgy and feisty? I see eclipse as a pretty important application.
<Laser_away> got a bug report?
<Hazart> Yep. two seconds, i'm assigned by mail.
<Hazart> https://launchpad.net/bugs/68053
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68053 in azureus "Eclipse will not start (Edgy)" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<tritium> Hi Laser_away
<gnomefreak> i dont think thats eclipse i think its more of an azureus issue since my eclipse has never failed to open
<Laser_away> well, eclipse is High Priority and In Progress
* gnomefreak doesnt use azureus ever
<Laser_away> Hazart: interesting, I guess nobody has been able to fix it
<Hazart> As i read the bug report, it's the same issue with both azureus and eclipse, that the java-swt library is broken. Someone has even proposed a fix for the problem. But it has been sitting there for weeks now.
<Laser_away> well, I'm are still waiting on a bug that's about 6 months old
<Laser_away> although it's not on as "big" a package as eclipse
<Laser_away> things just work that way sometimes
<Hazart> The fix is here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/eclipse/+bug/68380
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68380 in eclipse "eclipse for edgy-updates" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<Laser_away> Hazart: people have to have time and interest to work on it
<Hazart> Yes, i understand.
<Laser_away> Hazart: and then we have to go through Stable Release Update procedures
<gnomefreak> did the package in edgy-proposed repo fix it?
<Hazart> gnomefreak: Is there a package in edgy-proposed? (oops, i mist wanna check my sources)
<gnomefreak> Hazart: someone uploaded one
<gnomefreak> Hazart: you have to add the repo its not in sources.list file unless you add it
<Hazart> gnomefreak: I just checked, i have the latest stuff from feisty-proposed, but not edgy, that might be the reason.
<gnomefreak> Hazart: there is no such thing as feisty-proposed
<gnomefreak> afaik they dont get uploads til after the release
<Hazart> I see.
<teledyn> if i'm building my own customized kernel from the ubuntu source, can i somehow just rip out the whole debian/configs thing for multiple targets and replace it with my own single .config?
<Hazart> I guess edgy is first priority there. Too bad i can't check if it's working in edgy now.
<gnomefreak> Hazart: afaik eclipse nor any java has been merged yet
<Hazart> gnomefreak: Would it be a good or a bad idea to include the edgy-proposed source in my feisty sources list?
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: ping ? (about pouetchess sru)
<gnomefreak> Hazart: in future it would be bad. atm i wouldnt do it but thats me
<Hazart> gnomefreak: I just included it and it has updates for alot of xorg, gtk, x11 and gimp stuff.
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: pong
<gnomefreak> Hazart: they might be downgrades
<Hazart> gnomefreak: Yes i think they are.
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: hi, that's about the patch
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: sure, what's up?
<gnomefreak> Hazart: gtk might be xorg is same version in edgy/feisty iirc
<gnomefreak> Hazart: dont add it
<sistpoty> teledyn: maybe make-kpgk is what you'd rather want?
<Hazart> gnomefreak: thanks for your help, i'll just hang in there for the eclipse fix to get to feisty then.
<gnomefreak> it can cause big version issues in future
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: I think there is unnecessary changes it the proposed patch on sourceforge... the developer points me the essential changes in the last comment (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1596684&group_id=157043&atid=802212)
<Ubugtu> Sourceforge bug 1596684 "Segfaulting after the 3rd move" [Pri: 5,Closed] 
<teledyn> sistpoty: not really because i'm building from the ubuntu source
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: I can include the whole patch without problem, but I thought it was better to make a minimal diff
<sistpoty> teledyn: then I don't have a clue, sorry
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: ah, k
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: now what should I do ? ^^ Update changelog do add "Approved SRU proposal" and put the right version number, and ping a MOTU to sponsor the upload to -proposed ?
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: I'm just looking again at both patches... give me a sec please
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: ah, ok sorry ^^
<Hazart> gnomefreak: thank you for your help, i have written in the bug about enabling edgy-proposed, so we will soon have some edgy users testing eclipse.
<gnomefreak> yw Hazart
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: I'd rather prefer the patch siretart pointed to... it does really sane things
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: ok, no problem
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: the first snippet (scene_main_game.cpp) is really a typo... the ; shouldn't be there
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: and the second snippet (though doing this a little bit odd) resets the members (which would otherwise be in an uninitialized state during the first use
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: ok
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: ok, thanks for the explanation ;) (I am going to update the patch and put it on LP)
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: k, thanks for your work on this ;)
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: np (this was my first package uploaded to universe, and I don't want it to be broken :D)
<sistpoty> hehe
<StevenK> mr_pouit: It *has* to be broken, it's Traditional.
<mr_pouit> ^^
* StevenK looks for a sponsor for an upload to main.
<crimsun> what's up?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-23
<bhale> hi crimsun
<StevenK> crimsun: wlassistant 0.5.5-0ubuntu3.1 has been accepted into -proposed, I'd like the same fix for feisty.
<StevenK> crimsun: I've prepared 0.5.5-0ubuntu4
<crimsun> StevenK: k, just shoot me a URL
<crimsun> 'lo bhale
<StevenK> crimsun: Thanks. :-) Give me a sec.
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: FYI: you don't need to supply a changes file (it's only useful to verify that you are uploading stuff)... it's even a little bit risky: if you could upload to universe, anyone could grab that file and upload that very package in your name
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: mmh, too late (but I will now for the next time)
<luca> hi everyone
<sistpoty> hi luca
<luca> does anyone know how to install the gspca driver for webcams on Ubuntu?
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU : "The changelog entry and resulting .changes file must include a reference to the corresponding bug report(s)" << I thought giving the changes file was also needed :/
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: it's the other way round: in the changes file, there must be a reference to the bug (which means that the bug in question must be named in the last changelog entry)
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: yes, after re-reading it, that's clear, indeed ^^
<luca> when I use checkinstall to try to install it, I get the following error...
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: but even if you're asked for a changes file, you shouldn't sign it (unless actually a sponsor wants to find out that the package is undoubtly by you)
<luca> dpkg: errore processando /home/luca/Eseguibili/gspcav1-20060925/gspcav1_20060925
<luca> -1_i386.deb (--install):
<luca>  tentata sovrascrittura di `/lib/modules/2.6.17-10-generic/modules.alias', che s
<luca> i trova anche nel pacchetto linux-image-2.6.17-10-generic
* crimsun twitches
<crimsun> it's that ... word again
<luca> it says I am trying to overwrite /lib/modules/2.6.17-10-generic/modules.alias
<sistpoty> crimsun: checkinstall, checkinstall, checkinstall :P
<StevenK> Argh!
<luca> which is already in the linux-image package
* StevenK twitches too
<luca> anybody has any idea? sorry for the many lines up :(
* sistpoty ducks and runs off
* PuMpErNiCkEl twitches, just to blend in
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: ok (but as dput uploads the changes file on revu, I thought it wasn't dangerous. But I just checked, and changes files on revu aren't world-readable)
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: yep... as I said before, the changes file is only useful to validate if the upload is from you...
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: and thus revu also needs to check, wether you're allowed to upload to it, it needs the changes file as well ;)
<sistpoty> s/thus/because/
<mr_pouit> ok, understood : I won't do it anymore, I promise :p
<mr_pouit> thanks for your help ;)
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: you're welcome
<luca> does anybody know anything about how to install that driver?
<luca> it seems it wants to write somewhere where it can't, and I have no idea on what to do with it
<sistpoty> luca: you might have noticed that we aren't very happy about dosemu... if you have the source-tarball to the driver, you could try using module-assistant to build a kernel-module
<sistpoty> s/dosemu/checkinstall/ ... hehe mixing my current bug report with this
<luca> sispoty: how would I do it, with which command? and..uh, you mean the lines up there? sorry aout them :(
<sistpoty> luca: not really... it's about checkinstall, which causes us more work than it's useful for
<crimsun> StevenK: uploaded & accepted.
<StevenK> crimsun: Ahh, thanks so much.
<crimsun> np
<luca> sispoty: so I would do it? in any case, if I use checkinstall I am later able to unistall easily......I had *pains* when I tried to uninstall gaim beta 5 which I had installed with a normal make install....
<luca> sorry, I meant how would I do it?
<crimsun> hmm, isn't gaim 2.0b5 backported?
<luca> what do you mean? I am still greenish in ubuntu architecture and programs...
<sistpoty> luca: it's s.th. like apt-get install module-assistant, put the source to the kernel module to /usr/src/modules (I assume you'd need gspcav2 directory in there)
<sistpoty> luca: and then just run module-assistant which will guide you further...
<sistpoty> luca: but it might not work at all... has been a while since I last played with it
<luca> woah that's a bit long for a command...ok I will try it
<luca> uh sorry
<luca> nevermind
<luca> ehm ok now?
<StevenK> '
<luca> I have a list of modules...what should I do?
<sistpoty> luca: is gspcav2 there?
<luca> nope
<luca> I was UNABLE to install it after all :(
<sistpoty> luca: nope, the point of module-assistant is to build a debian package from the source of the kernel module... which you can install then
<luca> uhm ok I used the command from the folder where the source is
<sistpoty> luca: did you put the gspcav2 directory from the source of the driver to /usr/src/modules?
<luca> I got the tar file, and untarred it into a specific folder
<luca> in which I am right now
<luca> let me check if I actually *have* the source in the tar...
<luca> uhm I only see the build
<luca> however I have gspcav2
<luca> not v1
<luca> sorry v1 not v2, switched
<sistpoty> luca: could work as well... try to copy this to /usr/src/modules
<luca> the build?
<luca> nope
<luca> is there any way to work on the kernel?
<luca> I mean
<luca> I do not think it is an error of checkinstall that the program wants to write on that file... :(
* ajmitch returns
<ajmitch> don't worry, checkinstall is an error in itself
<crimsun> :-)
<ajmitch> hello crimsun
<crimsun> 'lo ajmitch
<ajmitch> lovely sunny & warm day here :)
<ajmitch> shame I have to work inside
<luca> o_O ok.....is there any program which can do its work then? I'd rather *not* use make install nay more...
<crimsun> raining & cold here, but it's warm indoors :)
<luca> luckier than I am, here it is cloudy :)
<crimsun> 'evening, bddebian
<luca> so, any advice?
<bddebian> Hi crimsun
<luca> in any case module-assistant does not see the gspca module :(
<sistpoty> luca: hm... I'm just trying s.th. myself... give me a few minutes please
<luca> ok thanks :D
<ajmitch> StevenK: get wlassistant sponsored?
<imbrandon> re
<imbrandon> moins all
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon, ajmitch, sistpoty
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> hi imbrandon
<StevenK> ajmitch: Yup. crimsun did it. Thanks, though.
<luca> I have to rebbot, see you in a sec
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon, bddebian
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon, bddebian, ajmitch!
<imbrandon> heh
* Hobbsee kicks the lag
<luca> there I am again
<sistpoty> luca: sorry, haven't found a solution that works... :/
<sistpoty> hmm... I could vote +1 for my own SRU now *g*
<StevenK> sistpoty: Don't do that. :-)
<sistpoty> StevenK: would -1 be better? *g*
<StevenK> Such a vote of confidence. :-P
<crimsun> sistpoty: 72591 looks fine. I wonder if ``fc-cache -f -v'' would have worked.
<crimsun> 72951, even
<sistpoty> crimsun: I'll try that tomorrow... however I'm not convinced if it should be in the postinst (since it's generated)... what do you think?
<crimsun> oh, woops. You probably want to reversion it to 1.2.2-3ubuntu1
<crimsun> nah, I wouldn't touch the postinst
<crimsun> if it works after a restart of X Window System, it's fine
<sistpoty> crimsun: what difference would the version make?
<sistpoty> (as it cannot get autosynced due to -ubuntu suffix in edgy)
<luca> back again :)
<sistpoty> luca: sorry, but I didn't find a solution :/
<luca> sistpoty: thanks anyway
<luca> is there anyway to act on the kernel?
<luca> or at least give the installer permission to write on that file
<sistpoty> luca: you can always force install stuff... but I'd really be very careful with it ;)
<sistpoty> luca: as in make a backup first
<luca> uhm ok.....
<crimsun> sistpoty: eek, so dapper and edgy have identical (for now) versions. Guess we need to make it a dapper-specific version.
<sistpoty> crimsun: nope. dapper has now 1.2.2-3build1, and edgy has 1.2.2-5ubuntu1
<luca> so I would have to use make install -f right?
<sistpoty> crimsun: so both 1.2.2-3build1.1 and 1.2.2-3ubuntu1 would not be in conflict
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> I apparently forgot how to read "Removed"
<sistpoty> luca: erm... I thought checkinstall would produce a debian package?
<luca> yeah it has
<sistpoty> luca: you just need dpkg --force-all -i foobar.deb
<crimsun> sistpoty: my original issue w/ the version was that it isn't strictly a no-change rebuild anymore
* ajmitch watches mysql spin out of control on a simple query
<crimsun> 1.2.2-3ubuntu0.1 or whatever
<luca> ok done
<luca> system is not crashing for now
<luca> :P
<sistpoty> crimsun: that's true, will be clearer I guess... I'll update the debdiff
<crimsun> sistpoty: thanks!
<sistpoty> crimsun: thanks for looking... updated ;)
<crimsun> & commented. :)
<sistpoty> thanks
<crimsun> thank _you_ :)
<luca> uhm nope I fear, I have installed it and rebooted,but the webcam does not seem to function :(
<luca> can I force the activation of gspca?
<sistpoty> I'm off to bed now... gn8 everyone
<ajmitch> night sistpoty
<luca> night and thnx
<joejaxx> ajmitch: are there any tools to extract an rpm in the ubuntu repository?
<ajmitch> alien
<joejaxx> ok
<imbrandon> isnt rpm also in the ubuntu repos ?
<imbrandon> ( the program not the format )
<Burgwork> imbrandon: yes, yes it is
<Burgwork> we just issued a security alert, I believe
<imbrandon> heay Burgwork
<imbrandon> heh
<Burgwork> it is required for LSB compliance
<imbrandon> zomg i'm going to strangle gambas upstream
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon, Burgwork
<Burgwork> hey ajmitch
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> what's up?
<imbrandon> fsking, ok , you know gambas right ?
<ajmitch> yeah
<imbrandon> the runtime thats "like" vb etc etc etc
<imbrandon> ok anyhow in their IDE they have a "make source archive" thats great , it makes a tar.gz etc of the source
<imbrandon> of your project
<imbrandon> BUT they also have a make "redist package" too
<imbrandon> and it will make redhat / suse / madriva rpm and debian debs
<imbrandon> BUT how it makes the debs is to make a redhat rpm then alien it
* imbrandon groans
<minghua> alien depends on rpm IIRC
<imbrandon> right but they actualy make the rpm the correct(ish) way witha .spec etc
<imbrandon> then use alien to make a deb if you tick the debian box
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so they ship broken stuff - what's new?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: heh we'll i've actualy been happy with it most of the time
<imbrandon> i use it soemtimes for quick ptroto type stuff
<imbrandon> prototype
<imbrandon> untill now
<ajmitch> if it can't be prototyped in python, it's not worth doing :)
<Burgwork> imbrandon: that is not altogether unknown. Userful used to do that as well
<fernando> hi all
<wiiprush> hi guys
<imbrandon> ajmitch: heh well if i knew python as well as i knoew vb6 then maybe :)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> heya wiiprush
<wiiprush> ajmitch: hey how versed are you in cfengine-fu?
<wiiprush> hi brandon
<imbrandon> wiiprush: did you buy me a wii too ? ( just teasin after your blog post heheh )
<wiiprush> heh
<wiiprush> imbrandon: our living room has become a nightmare.
<imbrandon> lol i bet
<wiiprush> nothing like a bunch of overweight geeks trying to play tennis
<imbrandon> hahahahahaha
<imbrandon> man, my 3 year old neice just stuck one of those circle CC stickers right in the middle of my monitor, nows its all sticky :(
<imbrandon> but at 3 its hard to be mad at her, hehe
<wiiprush> my cc rubberband things from the conference lasted a few days
<wiiprush> the logo stuff wore out
<ajmitch> wiiprush: I'm not
<wiiprush> ajmitch: k, I think i have you mixed up with thom
<elkbuntu> i managed to lose the cc button. i've got nfi where it is now :(
<wiiprush> elkbuntu: mine is on my laptop bag. :D
<elkbuntu> wiiprush, i thought mine was on my google tshirt still. it wasnt.
<ajmitch> wiiprush: quite possible
<crimsun> imbrandon: you shouldn't have further problems with flashplugin-nonfree 9.0.21.78.2ubuntu1
<wiiprush> ajmitch: I was asking because I just "got it" today
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> that's cool
<crimsun> imbrandon: note the change in semantics
<imbrandon> crimsun: cool, thanks
<wiiprush> hmm, was that the "you said no to the license, haha." error today?
<crimsun> yes, it now defaults to accepting the license silently
<crimsun> (!!)
<wiiprush> neat.
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> that sounds slightly bad
<crimsun> big fat warning in the package description to boot.
<ajmitch> noone reads descriptions
<crimsun> a vitriolic bug submitter felt that the license acceptance step was a crock
<wiiprush> I'm sure it beats them uploading checkinstalled .debs of the plugin into malone, heh.
<ajmitch> wiiprush: please don't make me cry
<imbrandon> ( and dont give them ideas )
<wiiprush> heh
<Simon80_> lol, checkinstalled
<Simon80_> haha
<luca> does anyone here use a Pixart Imaging webcam?
<imbrandon> luca: you might get more help in a support channell ( and no i dont have any webcams )
<imbrandon> wiiprush: so have you figured out any things about the wii that you aresnt supose to be able to do with it , like run ubuntu :)
<imbrandon> hahaha
<crimsun> the day that I make a wii do merges for me will be a _glorious_ day
<imbrandon> hehe
<luca> imbrandon: such as? :)
<imbrandon> i still love my xboxes just for the fact i can run linux on them, thats the only reason i keep em arround
<imbrandon> luca: such as #ubuntu
<imbrandon> or #kubuntu dependsing what your running
* StevenK owns a console to play *games* on it.
<imbrandon> or LP support tickets, or the forums
<luca> uhm ok thanks - nothing more specific?
* Lathiat uses XBOX for XBMC
<Lathiat> i think its played 2 games in its life :)
<luca> forums - already tried that :(
<imbrandon> yea i have XBMC loaded on one thats connected to the TV and gentoo on the 8 others
<crimsun> a file manager on 8 boxes? sheesh.
<imbrandon> i should ebay half of them and get a ps3 and run ubuntu ppc on it :)
<imbrandon> crimsun: hehe no the distro :)
<imbrandon> its one of the few that works on xbox out of the box
<luca> you can run ubuntu on a ps3?
<luca> that's interesting....
<imbrandon> yes you can run any ppc distro on the ps3 ( even supported )
<imbrandon> not hacked like the xbox
<Lathiat> imbrandon: you have *8* xboxes? ;p
<crimsun> one for each kid
<imbrandon> Lathiat: i have 9, 8 in a cluster that are headless, and one on the TV with XBMC
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> cute
<StevenK> What the heck do you need 8 xboxes in a cluster for?
<imbrandon> hahaha crimsun i only have 3 kiddo's :)
<crimsun> I call that excessive, but YMMV
<Lathiat> StevenK: plotting the destruction of microsoft?
<imbrandon> StevenK: geek factor :), i havent found anything usefull to do with them yet
* StevenK notes the difference in answer between Lathiat and imbrandon.
<imbrandon> they sit and run seti@home all day
<crimsun> sheesh, they could at least do some merges for us...
<imbrandon> crimsun: hehye thats why i was on the quest to get distcc and such working with pbuilder
<imbrandon> i thought it would be awesom
<imbrandon> but alas, there is "issues" with that
<imbrandon> and each one idivudaly sucks
<imbrandon> 733 celeron with 64mb ram and 8gb hdd
<imbrandon> and a gforce2 card intergrated i think
* StevenK thought Xboxes were gruntier than that.
<imbrandon> nope
<Lathiat> nope, thats what they are
<StevenK> Oh well
<imbrandon> you can pick them up at most pawn shops for like $25 now, thats what i did, no gmaes, no controler, etc etc etc
<imbrandon> and softmod them
<imbrandon> i used to mod and sell them a while back, but that market went away with the 360
<ajmitch> MS won't be happy with you :)
<Lathiat> $25? shees
<Lathiat> theyre still a good $125AUD here
<imbrandon> ajmitch: heh
<imbrandon> Lathiat: yea if you buy them new they are still arround $100 i think, but the pawn shops usaly have them cheap
<Lathiat> nah like $125 "pre-played"
<imbrandon> specialy ones with no hookups etc
<Lathiat> i havent actually tried a pawn shop tho
<Lathiat> should check there
* Lathiat nods
<imbrandon> because for a headless server you only need a cat5 cable and power
<imbrandon> :)
<Lathiat> there a special power plug tho, no?
<StevenK> But that makes it a pretty crappy server.
<Lathiat> do they usually come with power?
<imbrandon> i even have one that has no case, just runs in a cardboard box, i got that one free from someone that thought they broke it
<Lathiat> haha
<crimsun> wow, nice patch attached to debian 398381
<imbrandon> StevenK: better than my file server thats 333mhz and 96mb ram
<imbrandon> StevenK: you CAN put bigger HDD's in them if you want
<imbrandon> but i never spent the money on that, just used the 8GB ones that come wqith it
<imbrandon> plus they make good media center pc's
<Lathiat> crimsun: hah, nice
<imbrandon> small, quiet, play dvd's stream stuff over the network etc etc etc
<Lathiat> yeh, XBMC really does rock out
<Lathiat> kicks the pants off anything else i've seen
<imbrandon> yea XBMC is by far the best dashboard for it
<imbrandon> imho
<imbrandon> plus even mod'ed they still play original ( even copy and play copied ) games
<imbrandon> the only thing you loose when moding a xbox is the ability to play xbox live games, but then you can use a hack to play them with xbox connect
<imbrandon> and other free services
* imbrandon gets off the xbox soapbox
<imbrandon> ...
<ajmitch> !
<imbrandon> !=
<bddebian> ==
<nn> could someone assist me with the submission of some packages to add Department of Defense Common Access Card (CAC) support to ubuntu? :)
<crimsun> what sort of assistance?
<nn> crimsun, Basically just need to know what I have to do to get a package (Cool Key) accepted. I've prepared a short document describing how to set up the DoD CAC reader and build the CoolKey package, as well as the needed .diff patch to modify the source to build properly on ubuntu
<crimsun> nn: the necessary instructions are for REVU; see the channel's topic
<Amaranth> need some help with a package for a python extension using cdbs
<Amaranth> it puts the .la file in the python support dir but the .so ends up in the regular python path
<Amaranth> pastebin'ing rules
<Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/GvrCzi35.html
<crimsun> imbrandon: ping, do you have any ubuntu installs running in xen or vmware?
<imbrandon> crimsun: i have a 64bit edgy install in vmware
<crimsun> imbrandon: any possibility of having root access to one such install with network access?
<crimsun> (I need to set up a vpn or at least an ssh tunnel)
<imbrandon> crimsun: sure, i have one thats basicly a throw away install
<crimsun> ok, thanks
<imbrandon> crimsun: give me a few minutes to make sure its still running , if not i'll have to fireup vmware
<joejaxx> no one is awake :(
<crimsun> of course we're awake
<joejaxx> :D
<imbrandon> we're just busy coding away
<imbrandon> ( or something to that effect )
<joejaxx> i need something to code
<joejaxx> i want to code something that is not already out there
<imbrandon> brb afk ~30 min or so
<joejaxx> something beneficial to a broad range of people
<imbrandon> joejaxx: fix universe :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i was aiming at something bigger than that but what is wrong with it
<joejaxx> what is wrong with universe? lol
<crimsun> well for starters none of the packages use checkinstall
<dholbach> good morning
<crimsun> that should be fixed immediately
<crimsun> hi daniel
* dholbach hugs crimsun
<dholbach> heya Daniel!
<joejaxx> crimsun: checkinstall is bad :(
<crimsun> yes, that's the point
<crimsun> we should also introduce as many unchecked, nonredistributable packages as possible
<joejaxx> uh
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> hello dholbach
<dholbach> hey joejaxx
<crimsun> (yes, it's a joke)
<joejaxx> oh ok lol
* Laser_away slips joejaxx a humor pill
<joejaxx> crimsun: but what was imbrandon talking about
<joejaxx> Laser_away: lol
<crimsun> probably the outstanding merges
<crimsun> and our ever-accumulating bug count
<joejaxx> well what is left to be merged?
<crimsun> merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<crimsun> just a couple source packages
<nixternal> is there a merge i can work on now that won't step on someones toes and would be rather elementary ;)
<crimsun> feel free to take any of mine
<joejaxx> so people take debian packages
<joejaxx> repackage/update them for ubuntu
<joejaxx> and upload them to something sort of like revu for motu?
<crimsun> merges are updating ubuntu-specific changes into newer debian packages
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> ok
<crimsun> you'd use LP for merges and syncs
<joejaxx> ah ok
* joejaxx stills has a lot of stuff to learn
<Laser_away> crimsun: nifty Flash 9
<crimsun> Laser_away: it made me a sad panda, but I suppose the users come first.
<joejaxx> crimsun: but the merges left that means people have not uploaded them?
<crimsun> joejaxx: or newer ones. So, correct.
<joejaxx> ah ok
<Laser_away> crimsun: yeah, it at least fixed my topsecretrecipies.com domestic issue ;-)
<Laser_away> crimsun: I'm even thinking of making Ubuntu the default boot on my machines now
<joejaxx> has someone created a script to tell which packages need to be updated?
<joejaxx> Laser_away: nice
<joejaxx> :)
<crimsun> joejaxx: several people have. You're looking at one set of output from the MoM tool.
<joejaxx> oh ok
* joejaxx wonders if there is anything that is not scripted already
<crimsun> yes, fixing bugs.
<joejaxx> you all want that automatated?
<crimsun> it's nearly impossible.
<nixternal> crimsun: should i upload to revu?
<crimsun> nixternal: only if it's a new source package
<crimsun> merges and syncs -> LP
<Laser_away> crimsun: I can make a script to mark all the bugs "Fix Released" :-)
<joejaxx> crimsun: not entirely :) if you build an ai api to parse bugs for keywords
<crimsun> notice how I neatly avoided saying "closing bugs" :p
<joejaxx> the problem then is
<joejaxx> when one bug affects multiple packages
<joejaxx> if the bug was descriptive enough you could probably have it fix one package
<joejaxx> but i do not know about multiple
<nixternal> crimsun: just so i don't fubar this, it is a merge from a new upstream release in unstable, so that goes to revu?
<crimsun> I think if you can code up an "AI API" to fix bugs, multiple release handling will be a cinch
<joejaxx> ones*
<nixternal> kst is the package i am referring to
<joejaxx> hmm
<crimsun> nixternal: new source packages only -> revu
<nixternal> roger
<crimsun> nixternal: kst already exists in Ubuntu, so you'd use LP
<nixternal> ok
<joejaxx> crimsun: i have to draw up a concept for it
<crimsun> I already drew up one having rainbows and ponies
<crimsun> unfortunately it didn't go over so well
<joejaxx> one problem whould be when you get a bug description like
<joejaxx> "my package is broken"
<joejaxx> crimsun: Lol
<crimsun> no, that's a relatively easy "fix": just respond with "no YUO", rejected.
<joejaxx> LOl
<joejaxx> what about backports
<joejaxx> is that not automated as well?
<crimsun> backports are automated to a degree
<joejaxx> oh ok
<crimsun> fixing bugs is difficult
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> i should start browsing /ubuntu/+bugs on launchpad
<joejaxx> and see how people submit them
<joejaxx> ie the content of the description
<crimsun> just subscribe to the firehose that is ubuntu-bugs
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> well one downfall whould be it whould not be able to do hardware bugs
<joejaxx> but bugs with packages maybe
<minghua> ubuntu-universe-bugs is a (slightly) thinner firehose
<joejaxx> that whould exclude the hardware bugs right?
<minghua> no.  that exclude bugs filed against main packages, I suppose.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> i was just surprised that hardware bugs whould be mixed in there
* Hobbsee actually does a merge
<nixternal> is there a correct way/template to file a merge bug report on malone?
<joejaxx> wow i just noticed
<joejaxx> gmail does not allow you to create different inbox folders
<crimsun> nixternal: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000182.html
<nixternal> my hero ;p
<joejaxx> anyone else here use gmail?
<nixternal> i do
<imbrandon> wiiprush: hahahahahahahah omg, you almost made me pee myself laughing ...... quote: "1st guy on the left,(Jono): "I'm not really into pokemon...""
<joejaxx> are you able to create different folders?
<nixternal> never tried..i will do that now
<wiiprush> imbrandon: xkcd for the win dude
<imbrandon> right on
<imbrandon> :)
<wiiprush> imbrandon: dude, where's my beryl love man?
<joejaxx> ahhh
<joejaxx> nixternal: Labels are like folders
<nixternal> ya
<imbrandon> man , i have it but imho its still crackish so i havent uploaded it, i guess i could clean that uptonight and doso
<joejaxx> i did not know that
<nixternal> i was sitting here looking for folders wonder wth they went
<imbrandon> giskard: was doing some too, i dunno where his went, i hate dupelication
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> giskard: did you uplaod your packages ?
<imbrandon> ( plus they had some non gpl cruft i had to clean out that makes one of the packages kinda uesless )
<imbrandon> wiiprush: zomg, i'm gonna sooo laugh about that for a few days
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<imbrandon> hello Sp4rKy
<wiiprush> imbrandon: bonus points if you know what album I refer to in my first line of dialogue.
<Sp4rKy> o/ imbrandon
<imbrandon> hrm, give me 10 minutes to think, i bet i do
<Hobbsee> right, 2 merges done
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: yay :) nice
<imbrandon> wiiprush: hrm i guess not, probably some 90's stuff :)
<imbrandon> ( or a 80's band brought into the 00's )
<imbrandon> heh
<wiiprush> imbrandon: I am going to punch you next time I see you.
<Hobbsee> wiiprush: i believe that would be against the COC
<wiiprush> Hobbsee: In a friendly matter, of course.
<Hobbsee> hah
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<nixternal> is that referring to newstedt?
<imbrandon> wiiprush: so whom is it ?
<nixternal> metallica?
<wiiprush> It's now a quiz on my blog. :p
<wiiprush> nixternal got it though
<imbrandon> ahh
<wiiprush> imbrandon: you're weak dude.
<nixternal> that was lars talking about newstedt
<nixternal> how the mics were all up super high
<wiiprush> ok, you guys can't answer on the blog
<nixternal> hehe
<imbrandon> k
<wiiprush> I want to see what other ubuntu people suck at metal
<nixternal> damn, i would have won a pair of shorts or something
<wiiprush> so I can single them out
<wiiprush> heh
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> i rember that tv show
<imbrandon> the only reason to watch it was jenny mcarthy
<imbrandon> ( singled out )
<nixternal> that was one of the first intervies that metallica did on the headbangers ball (can't remember fully though)
<nixternal> imbrandon: i was on that show in 1994 in virginia beach..i got knocked off first
<nixternal> the chick i was dating met someone though ;)
<joejaxx> ok i just setup my email inbox for the ubuntu bugs
<nixternal> actually, i didn't get stationed down there until 95
<nixternal> so it was after that ;)
<nixternal> joejaxx: i use kmail filters for my bugger list
<wiiprush> nixternal: marine?
<nixternal> squid
<wiiprush> normal or submariner?
<nixternal> normal thank god
<wiiprush> tasty
<nixternal> gunner's mate, so i got to shoot the big guns
<joejaxx> nixternal: i mean on the server :)
<nixternal> ahh
<joejaxx> nixternal: i use webmail
<nixternal> i need to set that up
<nixternal> im going to buy a laptop on friday and will probably start using it for all of my work now
<imbrandon> procmail ftw
<nixternal> it has been a long time since i setup a mail server, so it should be fun
<nixternal> you using imap at all imbrandon ?
* joejaxx is about to subscribe to ubuntu bugs
<Sp4rKy> hi joejaxx :)
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: hello
<Sp4rKy> how are you ?
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: did you receive the mail where i ask you to send me your public gpg key
<Sp4rKy> to send you your blog account ?
<joejaxx> no i did not
<joejaxx> crimsun: should i do daily digest?
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: anyway , you are on the e17blog mailing list, right ?
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: yes
<Sp4rKy> strange
<Sp4rKy> so, please send me your publig gpg key :)
<joejaxx> was it a direct email or mailing list?
<joejaxx> i am currently setting up folders etc because i have alot of emails
<Sp4rKy> like you want
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: in what form
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: only your gpg key , in the  most common form ...
<joejaxx> uh
<Sp4rKy> and please, if you see him, ask macluvjay to do the same :)
<joejaxx> ok i will
<Sp4rKy> thx
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: your account has been created on the blog, with english panel, and you can modify the english part of the blog like you want :)
<nixternal> Ubugtu is a little spammer tonight in #-bugs
<Sp4rKy> :p
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> nixternal: its not doing anything now lol
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> it stopped for a minute
<nixternal> my lord kst takes forever to build
<joejaxx> nixternal: why dowa it skip bug numbers
<joejaxx> ?
<joejaxx> *25
<joejaxx> *30
<nixternal> im guessing lag
<joejaxx> oh ok
<nixternal> it does that every now and then, but tonight it seems they are working on it/with it
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> haha
<joejaxx> i just subscribed to ubuntu-bugs
<nixternal> you are a sick sick man
<joejaxx> haha
<joejaxx> this should be fun
<lastnode> haha
<minghua> #ubuntu-bugs is indeed a scary place
<joejaxx> same thing with my inbox in 20 seconds
<Sp4rKy> :p:D
<joejaxx> the bugs
<joejaxx> they are coming :D
<joejaxx> nice
<joejaxx> 4 bugs per second
<joejaxx> fun stuff
<joejaxx> well it is not like i am going to run out of space
<joejaxx> btw
<joejaxx> i just saw a feature bug for a backup system
<joejaxx> has that ever been implemented?
<joejaxx> i heard people talking about it before
<nixternal> who should i subscribe this merge request to?
<nixternal> i always forget this part
<imbrandon> ubuntu-{universe,main}-sponsors depending on where the merge is from
<nixternal> universe
<nixternal> crimsun: i finished the kst merge for you if you want to take a look -> bug 72975
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72975 in kst "[Feisty MoM]  Merge kst_1.3.1-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72975
<crimsun> (looking)
<crimsun> nixternal: I presume you pbuilt this merge, correct?
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> successfully as well
<crimsun> nixternal: uploaded (if you hadn't already received the accepted)
<nixternal> cool!
<nixternal> thanks for helping out on that
<crimsun> thank _you_
<nixternal> no problem
<nixternal> i promise to grab some more, but im gonna go pass out, and prepare for a day of pigging out ;)
<crimsun> kk, happy thanksgiving
<nixternal> thanks, and happy thanksgiving to you as well!
<nixternal> g'nite everyone
<imbrandon> crimsun: ping
<imbrandon> is there a reason that a merge wouldent show up on MoM ( and i should still do it even if its not on MoM correct ? )
<imbrandon> e.g we have amarok 1.4.4-0ubuntuX and 1.4.4-0.3 is in debian
<imbrandon> but its not listed on MoM
<imbrandon> does it skip NMU's or something that you know of ?
<imbrandon> ohhhh we have an epoc, thats why, never mind
* imbrandon headdesks
<crimsun> right
<imbrandon> man i wish there was a way to fix that
<imbrandon> i am begning to hate epoc's
<crimsun> indeed, epochs are banes
<minghua> epochs are called "last resort" for a reason
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder if we should make mom compare epoc striped version numbers
<imbrandon> that would have pitfals too i guess
<minghua> yeah, thing are going to turn nasty when Debian uses an apoch to fix broken version numbers
<imbrandon> yea , maybe we could convince the maintainer to add an epoc to match ours, that would be nasty though
<imbrandon> but ..... well ... yea nasty
<imbrandon> i wonder how many other packages are like that, the only reason i know is i watch that package
<imbrandon> probably very few in reality, but still
<imbrandon> ok one last thing
<imbrandon> since i dont know the debian system well is there a reason that the url http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=amarok
<imbrandon> is showing -0.3
<imbrandon> but http://packages.debian.org/unstable/kde/amarok only has the dsc for -0.2
<imbrandon> does that mean its in incomming or something ? ( crimsun / minghua )
<crimsun> packages hasn't synced yet
<crimsun> note that packages.qa, however, has
<crimsun> (that's why I use the latter)
<imbrandon> ahh whats .qa ?
<imbrandon> i guess i should too
<minghua> just look at the archive directly
<minghua> packages.qa.d.o has some delay too
<crimsun> PTS, or package tracking system
<imbrandon> ahh , ok thanks guys
<imbrandon> some things about the debian system still have me baffled at times
<Slant_Laptop> What steps do I need to do to get ndiswrapper-1.9 into feisty?
<Slant_Laptop> That is, if I have a package prepared?
<Slant_Laptop> As the kernel ABI has been updated, but no appropriate packages have been released.
<crimsun> ndiswrapper is a main package; MOTU don't deal with those.
<Slant_Laptop> crimsun: So where should I go for that?
<crimsun> you don't need to go anywhere. Our kernel lead is handling that.
<crimsun> 01:52 < BenC> let me finish this ndiswrapper sync and I'll fixup initramfs-tools
<minghua> what?  you can survive LP but get baffled by Debian infrastructures? ;-)
<imbrandon> ( but generaly if its in main #ubuntu-devel )
<imbrandon> minghua: yea, i understand LP for the most part, debian infra still gets me
<imbrandon> but i guess its what you get used to :)
<imbrandon> 02:38 < imbrandon> ( but generaly if its in main #ubuntu-devel )
<imbrandon> Slant_Laptop: ^^ that was for you , just FYI
<Slant_Laptop> Ahh, gotcha, thnks!
<imbrandon> but as crimsun said BenC has it covered this time
* Slant_Laptop nods.
<crimsun> (he's already in -devel, which is why I said the above ;)
<imbrandon> ahh
<Slant_Laptop> imbrandon: Thanks. :-)
<imbrandon> ahh crap , their .orig.tar.gz dosent match ours
* imbrandon grumbles
<crimsun> it'd be too easy :p
<crimsun> gotta make a core-dev do _some_ work :p
<imbrandon> lol yea
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> crimsun: wonderfull, how does one normaly handle large packge diffrences like this http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss123.png ? if i had my druthers i would just make the ubuntu delta changes to the debian package and uplaod that, but wont that cause a problem with the orig.tar.gz being packaged diffrent ?
<crimsun> imbrandon: what are you trying to do?
<imbrandon> merge amarok from debian
<imbrandon> and it seems to have devirged a TON
<crimsun> is the Ubuntu delta self-contained?
<imbrandon> ( not my doing )
<imbrandon> the delta is mostly just changes to the {control,rules} file, we compile against libs
<crimsun> you can try applying Debian's diff.gz to Ubuntu's orig.tar.gz then hand-merging any remaining differences
<imbrandon> but the packageing between 1.4.4-0ubuntuX and 1.4.4-0.3 is HUGE diffrence
<crimsun> then lastly applying any changelog deltas
<imbrandon> even when the debian package usees a tarbal inside like that ?
<crimsun> ah, the tarball-in-cdbs route
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> see its like way way way diffrent than what we have
<crimsun> well, unfortunately you'll have to keep Ubuntu's orig.tar.gz, regardless, for 1.4.4
<imbrandon> hrm ok
<crimsun> imo you'll probably want to fakesync as much as possible
<crimsun> the upstream tarballs shouldn't differ much
<imbrandon> yea they dont really, the main diff is they way its packaged
<crimsun> right
<imbrandon> hrm ok, so by fake sync , just take the debian changes and manualy add them you ours and make the version right ?
<imbrandon> ( along with their chainlog entrised merged )
<crimsun> as much as possible, yes
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> sounds like a plan, a pain , but a plan
<crimsun> it's really up to you
<crimsun> there's already significant divergence due to the tarball-in-cdbs
<imbrandon> yea i think thats the best option imho, then when 1.4.5 hits ( soonish ) i'll make sure its in debian first
<imbrandon> and merge
<imbrandon> yea the only other way arround that would be changing the tarbal name , and that more evil i think
<imbrandon> man i opened some worms with this one
<nixternal> well, my dog died at 3:00am ;(
<imbrandon> ouch man, no joke?
<crimsun> sorry to hear, but at least she's not suffering anymore
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> dad just called 15 minutes ago
<imbrandon> dude, that sucks, sorry bro
<nixternal> ya, the good thing is no more suffering
<elkbuntu> nixternal, my sympathies dude :(
<nixternal> we kind of knew it was eventually close as she fell ill last week
<nixternal> thanks
<elkbuntu> nixternal, how old was she?
<nixternal> 11
<imbrandon> wow yea that pretty good for a dog, 11
<nixternal> the hardest part is calling my x-wife and daughter tomorrow and telling them..i don't have the heart to tell me daughter..the x, thats a different story ;)
<imbrandon> sorry to hear though man, i know pets can be like family
<nixternal> heh, this dog was more than family..i think we were her pets ;)
<imbrandon> heheh
<nixternal> brb, dad just came home
<elkbuntu> my dog died at around 15 and a half, the day i graduated highschool
<elkbuntu> which was like.. a few years ago now
<elkbuntu> 7 years :|
<nixternal> alrighty, so i think i will go ahead and package in memory of holly ;)
* nixternal looks at MoM
<imbrandon> wow i think i finaly got this sorted out
<imbrandon> test building now
<imbrandon> but i did find a bug in the debian amarok i'm going push a NMU for
<imbrandon> hehe
<crimsun> heh, nice
* minghua can't wait for the day ubuntu-devel gets moderated
<minghua> currently the S/N ratio is just too small :-(
<luca> hi everyone
<luca> does anybody here know how to use eclipse?
<nixternal> bug 72985 - kvirc2 merge ready - debdiff included
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72985 in kvirc2 "[Feisty MoM] Merge kvirc2_2.1.3-6ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72985
* nixternal beds
<luca> does anyone here run eclipse?
<crimsun> not the version in the repos, no.
<crimsun> and there seems to be some weird interaction between openvpn 2.0.7-1 and vmware.
<imbrandon> not working ?
<slytherin> luca: I have but when I was on Dapper. What is problem?
<crimsun> it just dies, flatout.
<crimsun> Starting virtual private network daemon: server(FAILED).
<luca> I am trying to understand how to use it
<imbrandon> wow
<crimsun> invoking openvpn --verb9 [..]   isn't any more informative
<slytherin> luca: In that sense I can help you. I use it daily. What do you want to know?
<crimsun> root@seveas64:~# echo $?
<crimsun> 1
<crimsun> well that's terribly helpful
<luca> I have downloaded bioclipse...and thanks by the way :) www.bioclipse.net
<luca> also matstat
<luca> but I have no idea on how to run them!
<imbrandon> ( FWIW you should really use another channel for just plain support )
<luca> bioclipse has an executable...which does not function
<slytherin> luca: Read what imbrandon has said
<imbrandon> crimsun: wow, i've never tried it at all, you have it working on a plain edgy box ?
<luca> slytherin: I am already on eclipse, no answers yet :(
<crimsun> imbrandon: nope, but it works on my feisty box.
<crimsun> I'll try the brute-force dist-upgrade o' death
<imbrandon> luca: yes , but not to sound rude, but just bacause you dont get anwsers elsewear dosnt make this a support chan
<slytherin> luca: Lets move to #ubuntu
<imbrandon> crimsun: your more than welcome to upgrade that box to feisty, if something go's horribly wrong i can hop on console
<imbrandon> its only 2 rooms down the ahll
<imbrandon> hall*
<luca> imbrandon: sorry, I was just trying to ask in many places so maybe someone could help :)
<imbrandon> luca: i understand, we just try to keep the signal to noise to a minimum ( sometimes )
<luca> imbrandon: I understand it :)
<imbrandon> ( not only that but you are likely to get better help and more correct anwsers in the correct place , even if it takes longer to get them )
<imbrandon> crimsun: FWIW there is a feisty mirror on "deb http://192.168.1.5/ubuntu feisty main restricted universe multiverse"
<imbrandon> that the VM can use
<imbrandon> i forgot to tell you that
<imbrandon> ( if you do decide to upgrade it )
<imbrandon> actualy there is edgy and feisty mirror there
<crimsun> err, ok
<imbrandon> should just save you some download times was all i was thinking
<imbrandon> its nice to have a mirror on the lan
<imbrandon> ( it sync's once an hour )
<imbrandon> ok i'm going afk for ~30 minutes of so, bbiab
<crimsun> k. might need the vm snapshotted in restarted with the newer feisty image in 10 mins if you're not busy
<imbrandon> yup yup
<crimsun> snapshotted _and_ restarted, even
<imbrandon> can do
<ajmitch> morning
<crimsun> 'morning ajmitch
<ajmitch> I see the undead MOTUs are still up & about, hacking away
<ajmitch> when do you ever sleep?
<crimsun> when you're not looking
<ajmitch> must be
<fernando> moin all
* ajmitch looks around for a hobbsee
<fernando> gnome-vfs2 (2.16.2-0ubuntu1) on edgy too?
* ajmitch decides for sleep
<imbrandon> re
<imbrandon> gnight ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon, night :)
<jonh_wendell> How do i change my REVU password?
<bhale> jonh_wendell: you can't
<jonh_wendell> :(
<bhale> someday it will be tied into launchpad for authentication
<jonh_wendell> cool
<jonh_wendell> Can someone review my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3526
<Hobbsee> PriceChild!!!
<PriceChild> Hobbsee!!! :)
<PriceChild> How're you?
<dholbach> hobbsee!!!
<PriceChild> dholbach!!! :)
<dholbach> :-)
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach!
* mnepton wrestles dholbach to the ceiling
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: good, i did some merging :)
<PriceChild> well done :)
* dholbach hugs hobbsee back
<Hobbsee> :)
<PriceChild> Check out the forums ;)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: i saw the PM, i didnt check it out.  thanks!
<PriceChild> PM?
* PriceChild is confused...
<Hobbsee> private message
<PriceChild> what about? :S
<Hobbsee> someone else sent it
<Hobbsee> about teh avator
<PriceChild> oh from Kiwi?
<PriceChild> title ;)
<Hobbsee> yeah
<PriceChild> gd gd
<PriceChild> happy?
<Hobbsee> er, yeah
<PriceChild> hehe
* Hobbsee nods
<PriceChild> smiling?
<Hobbsee> and k-d is installable again :)
<PriceChild> k-d?
<Hobbsee> kubuntu-desktop sorry
<PriceChild> What was wrong with it?
<PriceChild> feisty?
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso!
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: it wasnt installing in feisty - broken deps.
<PriceChild> ah k
<PriceChild> I'm sure it'll break again :)
<PriceChild> just for you :)
<Hobbsee> true.  but i wont break it, as i'd need a sponsor to do it
<PriceChild> haha :)
<crimsun> man, that sounds scary
<Hobbsee> crimsun: gotta make something for the deities to fix.
<PriceChild> lol
<crimsun> whew, at least I won't have to fix it, then :p
<Hobbsee> yes you will
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: did you want something?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: no I won't, I'm no deity.
<Hobbsee> oh right, he was just looking to see who was awake
<PriceChild> Hobbsee, what're you up to? :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: right now?  reading logs from Hobbsee|Remote
<PriceChild> haha
<PriceChild> sounds fun
<crimsun> anyone need anything processed before I disappear for the day?
<mnepton> how about these fish sticks?
<TheMuso> crimsun: Ubuntu bug #72994
<crimsun> you're on the ceiling; you don't count.
* mnepton *is* The Count
<crimsun> bug 72994
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72994 in gdis "gdis: Please review/upload this merged package." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72994
<TheMuso> ah
<TheMuso> Can never remember the syntax.
<crimsun> done.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks.
<crimsun> np
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Are you slugging tomorrow night?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: possibly.  i already know a fair bit of VOIP :P
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Surely you aren't not going to come just because of that?
<Hobbsee> no idea
<TheMuso> bah you are no fun.
* mnepton dips Hobbsee in dark chocolate and fruit bats
<Hobbsee> ...thanks
<TheMuso> hehe
<TheMuso> Theres more to slug than just what gets talked about in the talks.
<Hobbsee> true that
<mnepton> s = ?
<imbrandon>  LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet | grep ^Package | cut -d' ' -f2 | sort -u | \
<imbrandon>      xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep Package | sed 's/Package\:\ //g' | sort -u
<imbrandon> gah
* mnepton takes away imbrandon's paste buffer privileges
* imbrandon heads for bed, making too many typos
<imbrandon> gnight all
<imbrandon> mnepton: heh
<Hobbsee> heh
<mnepton> ok, shift done. i'm a dot.
<\sh> siretart: moins, what is the source package of linux-image-2.6.17.13-ubuntu1-fai-kernels_1_i386.deb ?
<Fujitsu> !info linux-image-2.6.17.13-ubuntu1-fai-kernels
<ubotu> Package linux-image-2.6.17.13-ubuntu1-fai-kernels does not exist in any distro I know
<\sh> found it
<\sh> ubuntu/pool/universe/f/fai-kernels/
<Hobbsee> mnepton: back already?
<mnepton> Hobbsee: from home, aye
<Hobbsee> ahhh
* Hobbsee shuts you in the white padded room filled with fruit bats, and locks the door
<mnepton> have you been speaking with my girlfriend again?
<Hobbsee> maybe, maybe not
<mnepton> i *hate* when she goes sharing her strategies
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> hey jsgotangco
* mnepton notes that it's really tough to type with a mouthful of angry fruit bats
<jsgotangco> Hi!
<Hobbsee> yes, but you dont type with your mouth.
<mnepton> right! of ... course i don't!
<Hobbsee> hopefully
<Hobbsee> it'd be very slow typing like that
<siretart> \sh: it is called 'fai-kernels'
<\sh> siretart: yeah...found it :)
<\sh> sad enough, that packages.ubuntu.com doesn't know about it :(
<\sh> or I was to stoopid to enter the correct binary package name
<siretart> \sh: well, you can't install it via apt-get, and it is not in the package listings
<siretart> \sh: it is installed as binary file only
<xerxas> dholbach,  landell uses Tapioca#
<xerxas> is it packaged ?
<xerxas> or I'm supposed to make a package for it ?
<bhale> i never even heard of it
<bhale> oh, telepathy
<dholbach> xerxas: telepathy-sharp afaik
<dholbach> xerxas: talk to giskard about it, he has more of a clue about it
<bhale> dholbach: no, it is higher level wrapper to telepathy-sharp
<bhale> tapioca-sharp is a .NET package containing high-level classes on top of TelepathySharp for use in clients. It's used in at least landell.
<bhale> and ask giskard :)
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> thanks
<xerxas> dholbach,  telepathy-sharp isn't packaged
<xerxas> rigth ?
<xerxas> right ?
<dholbach> xerxas: it is, check the telepathy team's bzr
<xerxas> it's not yet uploaded in feisty ?
<dholbach> it is
<dholbach> apt-cache showsrc telepathy-sharp
<xerxas> root@panther:/home/xerxas/contrib# cat /etc/issue
<xerxas> Ubuntu feisty (development branch) \n \l
<xerxas> root@panther:/home/xerxas/contrib# apt-get install telepathy-sharp
<xerxas> Lecture des listes de paquets... Fait
<xerxas> Construction de l'arbre des dpendances
<xerxas> Reading state information... Fait
<xerxas> E: Impossible de trouver le paquet telepathy-sharp
<xerxas> ahh
<xerxas> in src only , ok
<xerxas> so I need to build it
<xerxas> k
<dholbach> no
<xerxas> thanks
<dholbach> that's the source package name
<dholbach> the binary package name is just different
<dholbach> no need to build it from source
<dholbach> daniel@bert:~$ apt-cache showsrc telepathy-sharp | grep Binary
<dholbach> Binary: libtelepathy-cil
<dholbach> daniel@bert:~$
<xerxas> dholbach,  ok
<StevenK> dholbach: Is your other machine called 'ernie' ?
<xerxas> thanks
<dholbach> StevenK: no :-)
<xerxas> so tapioca-sharp should be named libtapioca-cil ?
<dholbach> StevenK: i don't remember why my main workstation was always called 'bert'
<xerxas> I think there is some rules for packaging mono stuff, isn't it ?
<dholbach> xerxas: that's something some of the clever mono team members should be able to say
<StevenK> For the longest time, my main workstation was called 'broken'
<xerxas> and also there's #ubuntu-mono
<dholbach> hehe :-)
<bhale> xerxas: http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
<xerxas> bhale,  thanks
<bhale> please see evolution-sharp as an example
<joejaxx> my email inbox used space increased by 3MB already haha lol
<joejaxx> and i subscribed to ubuntu-bugs 6 hours ago lol
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6 in rosetta ""next 10 entries" at bottom of page" [Medium,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6
<joejaxx> well bbl cooking time
<_MMA_> Hmm... Can anyone tell me why my "Administrative Password" no longer works after moving to Feisty?
<_MMA_> Hmm... Looks like its not just me. Seems to be a issue with gksu.
<juliux> hi motus;)
<juliux> can someone off you explain me why kismet need so much other packages? see http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/5416/
<juliux> for example why does kismet needs gnome-keyring
<soneca> helo! Where i have to go, to help in I10n and I18n on Ubuntu?
<sladen> soneca: hello, normally  #ubuntu-CC  is the place to start depending on the language/country you know best.  There are also mailing lists on http://lists.ubuntu.com/
<sladen> (eg.  #ubuntu-uk, #ubuntu-nl, ...)
<soneca> thanks
<gnomefreak> wasnt libswt-java uploaded to edgy-proposed?
<LaserJock> libswt-java?
<LaserJock> I can't find a source or binary package by that name
<nixternal> motus, mount up, i got a new merge for ya (crimsun)
<nixternal> bug 73030
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73030 in plucker "[Feisty MoM] Merge plucker_1.8-20ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73030
<lotusleaf> not sure if this is the kosher place to ask, but kdar in kubuntu edgy wants libdar3c2a which is not available in edgy according to packages.ubuntu.com but for dapper. no answer in #kubuntu, kdar's in universe so thought I'd ask here, thanks. :)
<nixternal> motu time again, yet another merge (crimsun) bug 73032
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73032 in xgalaga "[Feisty MoM] Merge xgalaga_2.0.34-41ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73032
<conall> how does one go about requesting a package sync from sid? wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SyncRequests redirects to the MOTU/WorkInProcesss page which says it's not for requests
<lotusleaf> any idea why libdar3c2a is not in Edgy? I saw someone on the forums mention this too, a quote "Kdar is missing libdar3c2a, nor is it in the repositories. This is not a big problem unless all you backups are done in dar...then it's quite serious." @ http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=283364&page=4
<somerville32> Hi :)
<PriceChild> hi somerville32
<somerville32> :] 
<jenda> any idea where I could find daniel holbach?
<jenda> I'd guess he comes in here from time to time?
<thom> i think he's on holiday
<thom> but yeah, he's usually here
<bhale> i spoke with him this morning
<ajmitch> hello
<zul> hey ajmitch
<geser> does anybody know how security updates looks like for universe?
<fdoving> geser: what do you mean?
<geser> see bug 72921
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72921 in php4 "Several unfixed CVEs for php4 in Ubuntu Dapper and Edgy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72921
<geser> I'd like to know how this updated packages should look like in this case
<fdoving> geser: like the previous one, with patches to fix security problems. see https://wiki.kubuntu.org/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<geser> ok, will try if I can find all the necessary patches
<fdoving> not sure if universe is open for new versions to fix security problems.
<zul> it is
<fdoving> it's open for new upstream versions?
<zul> no for security fixes
<fdoving> yes, that's the topic.
<fdoving> geser can save some time then.
<fdoving> using the 4.4.4 debian package.
<geser> zul: so it is possible to include a new upstream version which fixes serveral security bugs into edgy-updates / dapper-updates?
<zul> geser: no you would patch what we would already have
<zul> however new upstream version might be accepted in this case but you would have to talk to the uvf team
<zul> er..sru team
<fdoving> so.. universe have the same restrictions as main?
<zul> yep
<somerville32> Martin Pitt said he'd upload
<stgraber> Hello, I have done a small software and tried to follow all the packaging guide of Ubuntu, I'm now at the submited to review step and wonder what to do next. Should I poke someone or what should I do ? (Maybe just wait)
<Sp4rKy> stgraber: did you add you to universe uploaders ?
<Sp4rKy> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors
<Sp4rKy> you have to be added to this list if you want upload to REVU
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> My software is already on REVU
<PriceChild> stgraber: i think you're officially meant to just wait.... but i poke people... :P
<stgraber> ok :)
<stgraber> thanks
<xopher> How do I issue a follow-up command, in this case gzip, in the manner that it'll wait for the previous command to finish? Im getting empty gz files when issuing | or &&
<jenda> xopher: still around?
<jenda> xopher: it's command ; another -c ommand ; the --next-command
<xopher> jenda, thanks
<jenda> np
<joejaxx> no one around again :\
<ajmitch> joejaxx: correct
<joejaxx> hello how are you ajmitch
<ajmitch> ok
<joejaxx> that is good
<xopher> Ok, now I got that working  another Q: How do I get my packages signed with apt-ftparchive? Or do I do it earlier?
<joejaxx> uh
<joejaxx> xopher: you do not sign them when you package them?
<joejaxx> or build them rather?
<xopher> You cannot sign them afterwards?
<geser> xopher: what exactly do you mean with signed packages?
<xopher> geser, well so that once someone adds my key, the packages are authenticated by apt when they try to install them
<ajmitch> that's signing of the Release file
<xopher> Ok, so I include a clearsigned Release file in /dists/edgy ?
<xopher> or does it suffice to have a signature Release.asc there, as Ive seen on some repos=
<xopher> s/=/?
<geser> it's a detached signature
<geser> you have a Release file and a Release.gpg
<xopher> Ok, thanks a lot
<geser> it's an armored detached signature: gpg --sign -ba  -o Release.gpg Release
<xopher> Yeah, you can do it like this too? gpg -a --detach-sign Release ?
<xopher> Id kill for a better upload now.. This 384 up isnt that great 
<geser> xopher: gpg -a --detach-sign Release should also work
<Laser_away> sesh, this Nutella stuff is messy :/
<xopher> geser, great, I might actually get a decent repository running, what would be the best way to transfer it to the ftp?
<PriceChild> as in choccy messy?
<PriceChild> Laser_away: ^
<Laser_away> yeah
<Laser_away> my wife decided to make Nutella filled doughnuts for Thanksgiving
* Burgwork moves into Laser_away's home
<LaserJock> yeah, I just tried one
<LaserJock> they're pretty good
<LaserJock> turkey's done
<shawarma> Hmm... -devel seems a bit slow right now. Can anyone with an Edgy installation check if they have a /dev/root and if so what is its mode?
<xopher> How would you suggest to sync my local repository to a ftp?
<xopher> no /dev/root here..
<shawarma> xopher: And your Edgy installation is a "normal" one? No debootstrap or anything involved?
<stgraber> no /dev/root here but that's not a "normal" kernel
<stgraber> but I can check easily, wait a second
<shawarma> stgraber: please do.
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock
<xopher> shawarma, pretty normal yeah, upgraded from breezy->dapper->edgy though 
<shawarma> xopher: Ah, that's no good then.
<shawarma> Someone must have a freshly installed Edgy installation available. Anyone?
<xopher> ajmitch, how would you sync an ftp with the content from a local folder?
* ajmitch shrugs
* xopher hides
<stgraber> shawarma: no /dev/root
<geser> shawarma: my Edgy system was installed with one of the beta releases and I've no /dev/root
<stgraber> shawarma: on a fresh install
<shawarma> stgraber, geser: Ok, thanks guys. Sheesh, that sh*t had me worried for a second.
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<Burgwork> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi Burgwork, what's up?
<Burgwork> not much
<Burgwork> US holiday, so pretty quiet
<LaserJock> \o/ for Turkey Day!
<ajmitch> americans..
<Burgwork> indeed
<LaserJock> it's our one day to be thankful for all the world's resources we're consuming :-)
<Burgwork> then stop driving
<LaserJock> haha
<Burgwork> don't eat food not grown with 100miles of your house and wear only american clothes
* ajmitch happily walks to work each day
<LaserJock> Burgwork: there is no food grown within 100miles of here :/
<Burgwork> you live in the desert
<Burgwork> that is completely fracking insane
<LaserJock> it really is
<LaserJock> I don't know why they bother
<ajmitch> certainly not a desert here
<Burgwork> sick part is, you live in one of the fastest growing cities in the US
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> it's insane
<LaserJock> I've seen the satellite photos they do every 10 years
<LaserJock> and it's crazy to see how big it's growing here
<Burgwork> move
<LaserJock> I intend to
<Burgwork> http://www.100milediet.org/
<LaserJock> I'm only here for my PhD
<LaserJock> I don't like it here
<ajmitch> move to NZ or something
<shawarma> Which city are we talking about?
<_MMA_> Raleigh! :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: growing up everybody I knew dreamed of retiring to NZ
<LaserJock> _MMA_: hah
<LaserJock> shawarma: Reno, Nevada, USA
<LaserJock> Biggest Little City
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's funny
<LaserJock> we have 2 arches in town with that
<LaserJock> although supposedly Portland, Oregon says the same thing
<shawarma> That's crazy talk.
* ajmitch needs more people online in his timezone - imbrandon doesn't count
<shawarma> From Reno's wikipedia page: City nickname: "The Biggest Little City in the World"
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> it's all in neon down by the casinos
<LaserJock> but it's a greedy, nasty place to live
<LaserJock> even if it is close to a lot of outdoors stuff
<_MMA_> LaserJock: I was gonna move to Reno because of the sign work I do but then I found out just how hot it can get. :)
<LaserJock> yucky
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so where do you plan to move?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: wherever I can find a job
<ajmitch> whoever will hire an overtrained chemist? :)
<LaserJock> you'd think after 9-10 years in college I'd be pretty employable
<LaserJock> but it's pretty darn tough
<ajmitch> or you get a job working on ubuntu
<LaserJock> I'd rather not
<LaserJock> but it might come to that
<bhale> LaserJock: could be worse
<_MMA_> LaserJock: I think you should look around the Triangle. Theres GOT to be SOME kind of job that fits what you do. I would be surprised if not.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: yeah, it's definately a hub of research in chemisty
<PriceChild> LaserJock: look what i just found on planet: http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=829
<hub> I'm not
<LaserJock> I'd like to avoid California
<LaserJock> but all my family is in the Northwest
<LaserJock> PriceChild: interesting ;-)
<PriceChild> LaserJock: Might make a post about it on the forums
<LaserJock> I've thought about working for a chemisty software company
<LaserJock> I haven't found any doing open-source, which would be fun
<gnomefreak> whats the name of the gdm theme changer? the one in system>admin>login screen?
<LaserJock> gdmsetup I think
<gnomefreak> ty ill try it
<ryanakca> when you upgrade a package (new upstream version), what do you do, copy debian/ over to the new source, add to change log, edit version in control?
<shawarma> ryanakca: You could take a look a uupdate.
<ryanakca> uupdate? kk
<shawarma> ryanakca: kk?
<ryanakca> my way of saying ok :)
<shawarma> ryanakca: Oh, I see.
<ryanakca> originally a typo, but I just decided to adopt it :)
<shawarma> mkay :-)
<ryanakca> is the standards version still 3.7.2?
<ryanakca> shawarma: worked, thanks :)
<shawarma> ryanakca: 3.7.2.1
<shawarma> ryanakca: Excellent.
* ryanakca wonders why not just go to 3.7.3
<ajmitch> because debian policy is not at 3.7.3
<shawarma> ryanakca: Oh my, oh my. It's 3.7.2.2 now.
<ryanakca> lol
<ajmitch> the .1 indicates typographical changes only, not editorial
<shawarma> ryanakca: As of Oct 2nd.
<ryanakca> ah
<shawarma> ryanakca: The standards version means the version of the debian policy you claim your package follows.
<shawarma> ryanakca: hence, you can find the standards version at the bottom of this page: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<ryanakca> shawarma: kk, ty
<xopher> Whats the option to so that when I build I get -dbg packages too?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-24
<_MMA_> Hello guys. What would stop this from getting in Multiverse? http://packages.debian.org/unstable/sound/fst
<theCore> anyone knows who is in charge of the mailing lists?
<theCore> would it possible the update the version of XChat in Edgy?
<Hobbsee> no
<VoX> that was easy :)
<theCore> is there a way to fix 57951?
<theCore> bug 57951
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
<theCore> I think that bug is starting to annoy people...
<VoX> just tell them to use irssi
<theCore> VoX, pfft ...
<Hobbsee> theCore: to bugfix, yes.  for a new version, no
<theCore> Hobbsee, so I would need to find the bug and add a patch in the package?
<Hobbsee> theCore: or find the part in cvs that fixes it, and add that as a patch, yes
<lifepositive> hi
<Laser_away> theCore: has the bug been isolated?
<theCore> LaserJock, nope
<LaserJock> I've never had it happen
<lifepositive> LaserJock: hello
<LaserJock> lifepositive: hi
<lifepositive> :)
<joejaxx> LaserJock:
<joejaxx>    - Copy of the new debian/changelog entries
<joejaxx> what does that part mean of the merge sync request
<theCore> bizarre, the vanilla version of Xchat, doesn't crash
<Hobbsee> so it's in one of hte ubuntu patches?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: means you need to carry the changelogs Debian has added since the last Ubuntu version
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ok thanks :)
<joejaxx> in this case it means the hold file
<theCore> Hobbsee, I don't know
<theCore> Hobbsee, I need to do more testing
<LaserJock> doh
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah this package is no in ubuntu haha
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what?
<joejaxx> not*
<joejaxx> LaserJock: they packages i am requesting a merge/sync for is not in ubuntu
<joejaxx> so i have to include the whole changelog i guess
<LaserJock> joejaxx: does it need to be merged?
<joejaxx> yeah from debian
<LaserJock> or rather ubuntuized
* joejaxx goes to launchpad
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> yes*
<LaserJock> why?
<ajmitch> so the package is in debian, but not in ubuntu, and you want to make further changes before having it uploaded?
<joejaxx> no
<joejaxx> just to have it sync'd to ubuntu
<LaserJock> that's what I asked
<LaserJock> merged = changes need to be made
<LaserJock> synced = no changes necessary take straight from Debian
<theCore> ok, the bug happens with the -ubuntu version
<LaserJock> theCore: how do you cause the bug?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: sorry about that
<theCore> LaserJock, just close Xchat
<LaserJock> theCore: how?
<theCore> with the close [x]   button
<LaserJock> joejaxx: np dude, just trying to be clear
<theCore> LaserJock,  but I don't think it really matters how you close it
<LaserJock> theCore: hmm, I use xchat on 2 machine regularly and I haven't had that happen
<theCore> LaserJock, which version?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: should this be just a regular bug?
<LaserJock> theCore: edgy
<theCore> bizarre
<LaserJock> I thought it was odd when I heard of it
<theCore> the bug is real, that is certain
<LaserJock> yeah, but it doesn't seem to happen to everybody
<LaserJock> so there must be something funky going on
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I think just treat it as a normal sync, but say that it isn't in Ubuntu yet
<joejaxx> LaserJock: no but i mean
<theCore> hmm... what is that mg_safe_quit() function...
<joejaxx> is it just a regular bug you file?
<LaserJock> yep
<joejaxx> ok
<LaserJock> hmm, I found a packaging subforum
<LaserJock> how fun
<LaserJock> good side: they found a mistake in the packaging guide
<LaserJock> bad side: somebody wants a GUI for checkinstall cause it's too hard
<zul> ill say it again forums are evil
<Hobbsee> zul: why in particular?
<LaserJock> well, they found a mistake in the packging guide, that's good
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: oh dear....
<LaserJock> gotta take the good with the bad
<zul> Hobbsee: because they want to use checkinstall
<LaserJock> well, they didn't know any better
<Hobbsee> if checkinstall is too hard, then they certainly shouldnt be compiling
<LaserJock> hmm, maemo has an interesting little packaging guide
<joejaxx> LaserJock: just paste the changelog in the bug?
<LaserJock> sure, why not :-)
<joejaxx> ok :)
<theCore> no bug with the vanilla version
<theCore> I am testing the ubuntu version now
<LaserJock> joejaxx: generally you can't give too much info in a bug report
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ah ok :)
<joejaxx> haha lets see if it comes up in #-bugs
<joejaxx> Bug #73071
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73071 in Ubuntu "Sync Request: fst 1.9-1 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73071
<LaserJock> joejaxx: umm, did you check that it builds in Ubuntu?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: and did you check what it depends on?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/sound/fst
<ajmitch> that partially answers 1 question
<joejaxx> yes i know
<joejaxx> i was about to get to the other part
<joejaxx> it fails on compiling
<joejaxx> cp -a `find . | grep 'vstsdk[^/] *\$'`/source/common ./vst
<joejaxx> cp: cannot stat `/source/common': No such file or directory
<ajmitch> then it probably wasn't a good idea to file a sync request just yet
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i did not know you needed to do all this before
<joejaxx> crimsu n told me to file a bug about the package
<ajmitch> it's generally expected that you test stuff that you request
<LaserJock> joejaxx: it's assumed that if you actually request a sync that it's syncable ;-)
<joejaxx> do people normally have to build packages to request a package for ubuntu?
<LaserJock> basically yes
<joejaxx> LaserJock: so how do i delete that bug then
<LaserJock> any time anything is done it should be built
<LaserJock> you can't delete bugs
<joejaxx> i mean the status
<joejaxx> should i set it to rejected?
<LaserJock> well, do you intend on making it work?
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> you could simply change it to a merge bug
<joejaxx> ok
<LaserJock> and explain that you are currently working on merging it
<LaserJock> is this going into Multiverse?
<joejaxx> yes
<ajmitch> does it need to go into multiverse?
<joejaxx> yes
<ajmitch> why?
<LaserJock> it's from contrib
<joejaxx> vst
<joejaxx> oh
<LaserJock> so I was guessing
<joejaxx> maybe not then
<joejaxx> but i whould thing so
<joejaxx> think*
<LaserJock> if it depends on a package in Multiverse then it needs to go into Multiverse
<ajmitch> is vst in multiverse?
<ajmitch> given that the open debian bug is that it can't be built without the vstsdk package
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> launchpad and its own bugs
<joejaxx> :\
* joejaxx is not having a good day
* joejaxx just found a launchpad bug
<joejaxx> ajmitch: vst is not in multiverse
* ajmitch wonders what the lp bug is
<joejaxx> when i went to edit
<joejaxx> it took me to the submit a bug page
<joejaxx> which is why there is now a second one :\
<theCore> LaserJock, how do you launch Xchat?
<LaserJock> from the Applications menu
<LaserJock> hmm, Main's still got a lot of merging to do
<PriceChild> Hobbsee!!! :D
<LaserJock> where??
* LaserJock runs away from the stick of DOOM
<PriceChild> :)
<PriceChild> Hey LaserJock
* Hobbsee attacks LaserJock with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<PriceChild> whoa its long as well! :)
<PriceChild> its been refined :)
<Hobbsee> you cant hide from the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  !
<PriceChild> Hobbsee's  Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ! see's eeeeeeverything
<Hobbsee> exactly
<PriceChild> :)
<zul_> you can wittle it down though
<PriceChild> hehe
<PriceChild> Right I need sleep....
<PriceChild> i wish i could have more than 6 hours too... :(
<PriceChild> Night Hobbsee LaserJock
<PriceChild> night zul_ :)
<Hobbsee> night PriceChild
* PriceChild collapses
* LaserJock does the only Universe merge with his name on it :/
* ajmitch doesn't see why people are afraid of that little stick of 'doom'
<LaserJock> ajmitch: we haven't seen it, it could be huge!
<ajmitch> I doubt that
<LaserJock> maybe you're right
<LaserJock> maybe she is just a little girl with a little stick
<ajmitch> she's mostly harmless
<LaserJock> no pushing me around ;-)
<Burgundavia> ok, the debian maintainer for libdvdread3 needs some education
<Burgundavia> "lets remove installcss.sh cause we have debian-unofficial"
<Burgundavia> fracking joyu
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: yeah, well
<Burgundavia> luckily, this is only feisty, afaik
<Burgundavia> so we have time to revert it
<joejaxx> ajmitch: know anything about diversions?
<lifeless> joejaxx: what do you need to know ?
<joejaxx> well
<joejaxx> in order for me to submit my packages to universe i have to create a settings package
<joejaxx> that holds configuration files
<joejaxx> for example
<joejaxx> i have a fluxbox key config file
<joejaxx> i need to override the default one that ships with fluxbox
<minghua> anyone who have an edgy system can check for me if /usr/share/X11/fonts/ dir exists?
<joejaxx> the only way for me to do that without rebuilding fluxbox and not submitting my packages to universe is to do diversion i was told
<lifeless> minghua: I think thats from dapper. I filed a bug about something related to that
<joejaxx> minghua: yeah that does not exist
<ajmitch> joejaxx: or you could patch the universe fluxbox package
<lifeless> joejaxx: so when your package is installed, it will alter the behaviour of fluxbox for all users... if thats intended, thats fine.
<joejaxx> ajmitch: that whould be a bad idea
<lifeless> joejaxx: what is your package - why is it better to do this as a separate thing to fluxbox ?
<minghua> lifeless: do you remember the bug number?  i want to subscribe to that.  A bunch of universe font packages installs stuff there
<minghua> joejaxx: thanks
<joejaxx> i whould have to patch wdm also to have the fluxbuntu logo by default
<joejaxx> i doubt people just randomly installing it whould like that :\
<lifeless> minghua: meh, I dunno :). Look at my filed bugs list ni launchpad
<ajmitch> joejaxx: I didn't say that you patch your changes into it
<ajmitch> I mean patching configuration options into it
<minghua> lifeless: will do, thanks
<joejaxx> lifeless: fluxbuntu-*
<lifeless> joejaxx: ok.
<lifeless> joejaxx: so you need to call dpkg-divert during your preinst script, debian policy documents this IIRC.
<lifeless> let me see
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> like this
<joejaxx> dpkg-divert --add --rename --divert /usr/bin/gcc.real /usr/bin/gcc
<joejaxx> ^ example
* minghua wonders why there are three lifelesses on LP
<lifeless> minghua: theres only one 'lifeless'
<lifeless> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-diversions.html
<lifeless> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html
<lifeless> you should discuss with the fluxbox maintainer as part of doing this. They may have an alternative solution
<joejaxx> well the thing is
<lifeless> joejaxx: and you should use dh_divert
<joejaxx> it is not just the fluxbox package
<minghua> lifeless: I know only one is you :-)  Just two other people who also use "lifeless" in their email address
<lifeless> minghua: oh, well its not in my email address's at all IIRC :)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: then you get to do more talking/diverting :-)
<joejaxx> it seems like a nasty hack
<minghua> dpkg-divert IS a hack
<joejaxx> Lol
<minghua> sometimes not so nasty, perhaps, but always necessary evil IMHO
<minghua> like epochs
<lifepositive> do you know how I can add to xchat a script that will display text if for example I type !info
<Hobbsee> lifepositive: try #ubuntu for support
<lifepositive> i cant
<lifepositive> it seems im unable to talk there
<lifepositive> !help
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<joejaxx> hmm no man page for dh_divert
<lifepositive> does anyone have  script for xchat that types a long sentence of text with just a command eg. /type text or !info ?
<Hobbsee> lifepositive: try google
<Hobbsee> lifepositive: and usually aliases will do that
<lifepositive> aliases?
<Hobbsee> in xchat
<lifepositive> hmm
<ajmitch> joejaxx: dpkg-divert
<LaserJock> anybody got sid using ftp.debian.org for apt mirror?
<ajmitch> no, I use http.us.d.o
<LaserJock> us?
<jsgotangco> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> jsgotangco!
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's what I said
<ajmitch> us == country code
* jsgotangco lives with an external lcd attached to laptop!
<ajmitch> nz mirror tends towards breakage & being outdated
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hello!
<LaserJock> wow, 2 merges done
<LaserJock> I'm going full speed ahead now ;-)
<ajmitch> hello mnepton
* Hobbsee defenestrates mnepton in greeting
<mnepton> oy
* mnepton plummets
<ajmitch> now that was cruel
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you can't just go around defenestrating people
<mnepton> yes, deliciously so.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: why cant i?
<jsgotangco> defenestrate lol
<lifeless> clearly she just did
<lifeless> therefor you can
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: 'cause it's not nice
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: sure it is!
<lifepositive> !gnome-xchat
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about gnome-xchat - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I suppose you want to be able to point your DOOM stick wherever you want to
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: of course.  but it's more fun defenestrating them first
<LaserJock> kids these days, shesh
* Hobbsee steals LaserJock's walking stick, and runs away with ti
<Hobbsee> *it
<LaserJock> well, I'm in bed so I think I'm ok
* LaserJock pulls out a laser from his nightstand
<LaserJock> this ain't one of those laser pointers either ;-)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> now put that away, you know that's bad to shine in people's eyes
<LaserJock> yeah, :(
<LaserJock> can't be blowin' out retinas
<LaserJock> one of the lamps on my laser went out the other day
<LaserJock> kinda sucked
<LaserJock> but we got to take it apart a bit
<Hobbsee> heh
<LaserJock> each lamp gets 20kV so you gotta make sure it's all dicharged our you're toast :-)
<ajmitch> sounds like fun
<LaserJock> yeah, and somebody decided that right next to a 25kV capacitor is the best place to put the cooling water
* mneptoid stares at Hobbsee
* Hobbsee looks around innocently
<mneptoid> ph33r. my Freenode connection hiccuped.
<Hobbsee> why you be staring at me, mneptoid
<Hobbsee> ?
<LaserJock> hehe
<ajmitch> another kurt? can we handle this madness?
<Hobbsee> no
<LaserJock> the DOOM stick even reaches to montreal :-)
* Hobbsee ghosts mneptoid 
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: the DOOM stick reaches everywhere.
* Hobbsee wonders if her friend still has that video on her phone
<Hobbsee> proof of my doomstick!
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> more like broomstick
<mnepton> uhhh ... "doomstick" "video" and "irc" are not something in which i shall engage, tyvm
* LaserJock runs
<Hobbsee> nah... wasnt a broom
* Hobbsee wonders if we burnt the broom on that night
* Hobbsee doesnt remember taking it back up to the house
* LaserJock wonders if he should be writing this  down for the UWN Gossip section
<ajmitch> of course
<StevenK> LaserJock: "Hobbsee has a long stick" ?
* ajmitch can happily sit back out of the glare of the media
<Hobbsee> haha
<LaserJock> "Hobbsee DOOMs Kubuntu"
<LaserJock> :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: not just kubuntu - i uploaded gnucash last night
<LaserJock> oh man
<ajmitch> yeah
<mnepton> gtk2 gnucash?
<LaserJock> now I'm never going to use it for my finances
<ajmitch> mnepton: edgy has gtk2 gnucash
<Hobbsee> probably
<Hobbsee> haha
<LaserJock> who knows what easter egg she put in there
<mnepton> ajmitch: i know. ;)
<ajmitch> after how many years in development...
<LaserJock> if Hobbsee suddenly starts sporting some new laptops we'll know
<ajmitch> mnepton: you have to deal with support for little apps like that in universe?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: postinst of apt-get install -y kubuntu-desktop
<Hobbsee> haha
<LaserJock> she cooked the books
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: well, i do have 2 at the moment
<LaserJock> SEE, PROOF!!
* Hobbsee denies everything
* LaserJock files a bug, "Never let Hobbsee touch gnucash again"
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: but why would i stop at gnucash?
<LaserJock> yikes!
* Hobbsee is sure there are other popular gnome apps that she can play with
<ajmitch> problem is, none of us want to dirty ourselves with kde apps
* Hobbsee could just reject the bug, too
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, I'd mark it as a security bug
<joejaxx> hey is there a way to get apt to download debs without checking to see if the packages are already installed on the system?
<ajmitch> as it would be
<joejaxx> i know you can do
<joejaxx> sudo apt-get -d install blah
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes, but if you took away my upload powers, you'd have to do more work
<joejaxx> but it will check to see if blah is installed if it is then it does not download the debian files
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: fine then, I give you all my money
<Hobbsee> oh good
<ajmitch> joejaxx: --reinstall
<LaserJock> just fix Ubuntu
* Hobbsee pockets it
<joejaxx> ajmitch: ah ok thanks
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i am working on a install cd buildd script
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: where fix is "sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop" - sure!
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: hmm, not sure if that would fix everything
<LaserJock> we already have enough breakage without that "other" DE ;-)
<Hobbsee> it'd be worth a try though
<joejaxx> ajmitch: and you have to get the debs you want and place them on the cd
<Hobbsee> hah
<joejaxx> ajmitch: well you probably already know that so i have no idea why i am telling you lol
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I tell you, if I could get KDE looking as nice as Gnome I'd probably use it more
<LaserJock> lately I've just been using a fair amount of KDE apps in Gnome
<joejaxx> well bbl
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: then perhaps you need to define nice - i think the same about gnome apps, and if it wouldnt crash constantly on me
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: perhaps, it's weird how people are drawn to one or the other
<LaserJock> KDE still just looks kinda ... "childish" even though that's not really the word for it
<LaserJock> I've used it off and on for the last 4 years and it's always seemed that way to me
<LaserJock> so I just continue to bounce back and forth
<LaserJock> a few days in Gnome and few days in KDE
<LaserJock> not really happy with any, but kinda getting things done :-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you do have the kubuntu-default-settings installed?  the theme is looking pretty reasonable from that
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> xfce's nice, too
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: it's not so much the theme
<LaserJock> the theme is looking real nice
<Hobbsee> true
<LaserJock> but like the widgets and menus
<Hobbsee> the look and feel can be very odd though
<LaserJock> I can't even really explain it
<LaserJock> from what I've seen, KDE looks really nice if you get rid of all the panels and stuff
<LaserJock> most of the cool screenshots I've seen are just like superkaramba and a OSX dockbar thingy
<jsgotangco> superkaramba is pretty cool though
<LaserJock> yeah
<lifepositive> Hobbsee: hello
<lifepositive> LaserJock: If I showed a movie to 100 people, perhaps 65 will say they loved it, and 25 may be confused and perplexed, and 10 maybe asleep and not care either way and 5 may hate it. Its all about personal preference
<lifepositive> LaserJock: and my advice to you is.. if you not too keen on the "2 different movies", grab another movie!  and if you dont like them either, create your own :)
<lifepositive> LaserJock: if you always complain about the only thing you have to work with, then you will never be happy
<lifepositive> whats superkarmamba?
<lifepositive> LaserJock: did that make sense?
<LaserJock> lifepositive: yeah, except I've been in this game too long
<LaserJock> I've tried darn near every WM and DE out there (joys of Gentoo)
<LaserJock> and most are pretty good
<lifepositive> LaserJock: if thats true, then you really should apply all you have learned to create something fresh thats suitable for you!  eg. Warren did it with mepis and the guy from Ubuntu etc
<LaserJock> lifepositive: sure, except I'd be wasting my time writing my own WM
<lifepositive> LaserJock: if you dont like all you got to work with, you need to create something new
<lifepositive> LaserJock: i dont hear the guy who created ubuntu say that :)
<LaserJock> or make what exists better
<LaserJock> sure, but he's got a lota money to go do it
<lifepositive> LaserJock: improve on what you got is a secrtet of the super wealthy
<lifepositive> eg google etc..
<LaserJock> sure
<lifepositive> LaserJock: many millionares started with $5 and a great idea
<lifepositive> and plenty of detirmination :)
<LaserJock> and I'd rather not spend my $5 and determination on WMs :-)
<lifepositive> LaserJock: 85% of all millionares started with nothing
<lifepositive> LaserJock: well then stop complaining and be graterful  for what you have ;)
<LaserJock> sure
<lifepositive> LaserJock: I am writing this from my boat :)
<lifepositive> notebook :)
<lifepositive> and plenty of sushine and great views :)
<lifepositive> LaserJock: because I never complained, I worked with what I had and created new things
<LaserJock> what I'm more worried about then just "what DE do I use?" is "what DE would I develop for or even contribute to"
<lifepositive> :)
<lifepositive> LaserJock: God has given you a great mind and a creative ability
<lifepositive> work the muscles :)
<crimsun> wrong approach. Write a backend, making the frontend UI-independent.
<lifepositive> LaserJock: as Phil Nike once said "Just do it!" :)
<lifepositive> brb
<LaserJock> crimsun: I know but I feel like I miss out on integration doing that
<crimsun> why? Just write the various frontend(s), then.
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> well, perhaps I'm not meant to be a software developer
* LaserJock shuffles back to the lab ;-)
<ajmitch> yay, friday
<lifeless> Laser_away: DE's are overrated. vim is all thou shalt need
<jsgotangco> amen
* ajmitch hopes this kernel works..
<LaserJock> lifeless: I thought it was emacs? ;/
<ajmitch> well, I get as far as failing to create a domU :)
<realist> LaserJock: no, all you need is ed ;p
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<ademan> i want to create a new updated package for the eclipse cdt (because the old one is incompatible with the current eclipse package) but i've never made a package before, is there any way i can look at what was done for the original cdt package? or is there any description of how to do it?
<minghua> ! packaging
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<minghua> ademan: look at that guide, and look at the cdt source package
<ademan> so sudo apt-get source eclipse-cdt  ?  and yeah i'm looking at the packaging guides
<ademan> its just eclipse isn't a standard ./configure && make  program
<LaserJock> ademan: once you get the source you can look at debian/rules to see how it's done
<ademan> ah ok, thanks
<ademan> where does the source package go to?
<minghua> you don't need sudo for "apt-get source" BTW
<minghua> it goes to the current directory
<ademan> minghua: what would i do instead? (sorry, i'm rather ignorant of these things)
<minghua> just do "apt-get source <package_name>", the source package will be downloaded to your currect dir
<minghua> (assuming you have a deb-src line in your sources.list, of course)
<ademan> OH sorry i misread
<ademan> i thought you meant that apt-get source wasn't the right approach
<ademan> yeah ok
<imbrandon> moins all
<Mez> how do i apply pathces easily from simple-patchsys to source
<crimsun> ah crap
<crimsun> that'll get me for reading the mailing list _after_ I read the bug list.
<crimsun> siretart: sorry, I'll recheck 73098
<siretart> bug 73098
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73098 in ircii-pana "declares unnecessary dependency on libmysqlclient15off" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73098
<siretart> crimsun: no problem
<siretart> crimsun: btw, the merge is wrong in any case. it was uploaded with -4 to dapper, it should have been versioned as '-3ubuntu1'
<siretart> crimsun: this means the next upload should merge '-4' from debian, and be called '-4ubuntu2'
<crimsun> right
<dholbach> good morning
<siretart> dholbach!!
<dholbach> hey siretart!
<siretart> :)
<ajmitch> hi siretart, dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<imbrandon> moins siretart ajmitch dholbach
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I'm currently going through science bugs, and I note you have a half-done sync request for zope-zms open (bug #62916). What's happening with that?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62916 in zope-zms "UVF Exception for zope-zms 2.9.2-a29-1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62916
<Fujitsu> Morning, imbrandon.
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I'll get back to it
<dholbach> hiya imbrandon, Fujitsu
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon
<Fujitsu> Goodo, ajmitch.
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<imbrandon> hrm
<ajmitch> hm?
<imbrandon> fighting with vmware
<ajmitch> on 2.6.19?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> windows :(
<imbrandon> actualy , windows host , 2.6.19 guest
<ajmitch> ah
<imbrandon> so sorta, but i doubt thats what you ment
<ajmitch> I was meaning the patching of the modules to work on feisty as host, yeah :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: http://federation.imbrandon.com/gah.jpg
<ajmitch> wow
<ajmitch> that's so uninformative
<imbrandon> lol yea
<jsgotangco> oh my
<ajmitch> so far all that tells me is that something stopped in initramfs
<imbrandon> thats what it boots to atm
<ajmitch> like looking for root filesytem
<ajmitch> booting without quiet splash?
<imbrandon> to be honest i'm trying to load vmware console here on my feisty box atm so i dont have to keep running down the hallway, i forget what the kernel parms are
<imbrandon> i think its bare minimum if i rember right
<imbrandon> e.g. no quiet and nosplash
<ajmitch> you should still get some kernel output then
<Lathiat> i foudn that happened to me when it couldnt find the root fs
<imbrandon> zomg , i just got a ftbfs email from soyuz for something i havent uploaded since breezy
<ajmitch> yes, and it should tell you that just before it drops to initramfs
<Lathiat> i dont seem to recall it did
<Lathiat> tho, it may have, it was a few weeks back
<imbrandon> probably, i wasent watching console, just walked in the room to see that when i couldent ssh in
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: it did a couple of days ago when I couldn't boot my box
<imbrandon> if thats the case, whats the fix ?
<ajmitch> get it working
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ok
* Lathiat grins
<ajmitch> there can be many reasons why it can't find /
<imbrandon> probably something to do with the uuid's i would imagine, its a edgy knot3 to feisty upgrade
<ajmitch> or you upgraded at a bad time with broken packages
<imbrandon> thats possible too
<\sh> moins
<imbrandon> heya \sh
<siretart> \sh!! :)
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> siretart: are you ok with a backport of fai 3.1 to dapper?
<\sh> or a normal dapper-update...because of the kernel.
<siretart> \sh: since testing it is really invasive, I'd rather backport fai and fai-kernels to dapper rather than to -proposed und -updates
<siretart> \sh: I really doubt you manage to get the quorum for -updates
<siretart> but in general, I'm okay with that as well
<\sh> siretart: the main fai packages are no pain...I'm frightend of the fai kernel ;)
<siretart> \sh: with reason!
<siretart> \sh: I really hope that h0lger manages to deploy initramfs-tools for fai kernels soon. this will reduce a lot of PITA
<siretart> then we could use the standard distro kernels
<\sh> siretart: I heard about it from Thomas during the linux expo in cologne.
<siretart> AFAIK, this is a project for lenny, not an etch thing
* ajmitch gives up on ubuntu for the evening & decides to sleep
<\sh> hmmm..libvolume-id0: Conflicts: libcolumid0 but 093-0ubuntu18 is installed...pbuilder create for feisty...
<imbrandon> hehe gnight ajmitch
<siretart> ajmitch: sleep well!
<\sh> siretart: so, what would you propose to backport even edgies fai kernel package to dapper? I saw yesterday, that it needs edgies kernel source package
<minghua> hi \sh
<\sh> good night ajmitch :)
<siretart> \sh: I can't imagine that fai 3.1 needs 2.6.17. better try to use dapper's 2.6.15 kernel
<siretart> \sh: this way, you perhaps don't even need to backport fai-kernels at all
<\sh> siretart: yeah, but *-2.6.17-* is written in the default make-fai-nfsroot config file...
<\sh> cd
<siretart> \sh: then change that
<minghua> we have FTBFS notification mails now?  sweet.
<siretart> \sh: you can upload directly to dapper-backports. I've been told that such uploads get pocketed and need manual approval, though
<\sh> siretart: in edgies package and then requesting a backport?
<imbrandon> minghua: guess so, i got one this morning
<siretart> \sh: prepare an -backports upload based on the package from edgy for dapper, to use the fai-kernels from dapper. test that it actually works. then file a bug with your testing report and subscribe me, I will then ask you to upload to -backports
<siretart> \sh: I think this is the easiest way to convince team ubuntu-archive to approve your upload
<\sh> siretart: oh...are we able to upload "changed source packages" to -backports? I thought the backports are still without any source changes
<fernando> moin all
<EDevil> hello
<xerxas> Hi all
<kiko> hey hey
<kiko> how's it going!
<dholbach> hey kiko
<kiko> dholbach! good to see you around
<kiko> dholbach, can we get a new tz-brazil synced in?
<dholbach> kiko: it should be automatically synced
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/bugs/71991
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71991 in tz-brasil "tz-brasil doesn't remove the /etc/cron.d file when uninstalled" [Unknown,Fix released] 
<dholbach> kiko: you want me to fix the bug? i'm not sure I understand "synced in"
<dholbach> we have 0.8 in feisty, no?
<kiko> dholbach, ah, I'm not on feisty yet
<dholbach> so you want a backport of it?
<kiko> dholbach, no, I guess it's fine. should I set those bugs to fix released then, since 0.8's in feisty? (when was it uploaded?)
<dholbach> it was automatically synced from debian
<dholbach> i can ask the backports team to do a backport to edgy
<kiko> dholbach, hmmm. only if it's not too much work -- it will only affect me when we actually need to travel again, which is not in the next two months
<dholbach> kiko: updated the bug
<kiko> dholbach, you rock
<dholbach> de rien
<kiko> I'll update the two others
<slytherin> dholbach: Why is edgy open for backports so early? IIRC in case of dapper it happened in last two months of edgy cycle.
<dholbach> slytherin: i think it was because of infrastructure problems
<sivang> moring
<sivang> morning
<fernando> moin sivang
<sivang> hi fernando
<xerxas> can I make a package without having my gpg key ?
<xerxas> I currently cannot acces my private key and don't manage to generate one , I cannot generate enough entropy remotely
<geser> you can build a package but you can't upload it anywhere
<xerxas> cannot send it to revu ?
<xerxas> with my ssh key ?
<xerxas> geser,  anyway,  I haven't yet added dependencie, so I'm not to the point of uploading it
<xerxas> how can I make a debuild without signing ?
<geser> AFAIK you need a signed .changes file for revu
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> ok , debuild -uc does it !
<geser> it's also in the EXAMPLES section of the man page for debuild
<xerxas> geser,  yes, but I'm using putty and I'm having hard times reading the manpage because of formatting and terminal
<xerxas> sorry for asking dumb questions
<xerxas> doing a sudo pbuilder build myfile.dsc I get this:
<xerxas> chmod a+x /tmp/buildd/pigment-0.1.0/build-tree/pigment-0.1.0/configure
<xerxas> chmod: cannot access `/tmp/buildd/pigment-0.1.0/build-tree/pigment-0.1.0/configure': No such file or directory
<xerxas> I think my configure file should be in /tmp/buildd/pigment-0.1.0/ and not /tmp/buildd/pigment-0.1.0/build-tree/pigment-0.1.0/
<xerxas> howcome I get this ?
<geser> hello lophyte
<geser> I'm currently filing sync requests for cenon.app and gnustep-examples if it is ok with you
<lophyte> sure :)
<lophyte> I've been really busy lately and haven't had any time to sit down and look into the packages
<zul> meh
<giskard> imbrandon, ping
<xopher> How could I speed up the pbuilder build-process?
<xopher> Is there a safe way to skip steps?
<imbrandon> giskard: pong
<imbrandon> giskard: got a linky for the beryl stuff ?
<giskard> imbrandon,  no :(
<imbrandon> ( i assume thats what teh ping was for hehe  )
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> wasup?
<giskard> but i want talk about beryl :)
<imbrandon> sure
<giskard> fabo, pinged me about beryl right now, and i think it's time to upload something
<giskard> i'm going to build debs right now
<imbrandon> sounds good, i have time today to review them a bit too
<fabo> :)
<giskard> but my problem is: we will use beryl's svn for maintain debian/
<giskard> or we should switch to bzr.lp.net?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> neither right now
<imbrandon> that is the main reason for making our own atm becouse what beryl has in svn is crackfull
<giskard> ok, i want to package it as team, as atm my laptop runs Debian (for my dd work)
<imbrandon> and for changes we can use whats in the repos once uploaded, after a week or so of stablizing we can import to bzr
<giskard> and my ubuntu pc is too old for run beryl
<imbrandon> but i wouldent do that right away
<imbrandon> right, for the moment here is what i envisioned, let me know if its an issue ........
<imbrandon> you had/have some packages ready ( or will soon ) , i'll review them and make any small changes etc , then upload them ( today ? ) then ....
<imbrandon> after about a 2 or 3 days of that we can setup bzr in LP
<imbrandon> to package as a team
<imbrandon> but i dont want to right off as there will likely be major changes
<giskard> ok!
<imbrandon> i want to stablize the package for a day or two before we import to LP
<imbrandon> sound cool ?
<giskard> as you wish!
<giskard> yeah!
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> :)
<giskard> my second point is: how to work with Debian people?
<fabo> sound cool for me too ;)
<bhale> work with on what?
<giskard> bhale, on beryl..with shawn
<bhale> on the packaging?
<giskard> bhale, yes.
<imbrandon> work with on what ? i have DD sponsors that will get it into the archive and upload for me if thats what you mean
<bhale> we do mono packaging in svn
<bhale> on alioth
<giskard> bhale, cool
<giskard> bhale, also for ubuntu?
<bhale> no we dont put ubuntu changes there
<imbrandon> yea we do kde-extras on ailoth too, but i would rather not go that route for beryl , but that i guess is upto someone else
<fabo> atm shawn has his work on XSF svn
<bhale> changes good for everyone goes there
<giskard> fabo, yes, on a git repo on pkg-x afaik.
<imbrandon> giskard: i dont have a problem getting this into debian from our bzr once its on LP, i wouldent worry about that right now
<rmjbwork> hello, can someone okay a sync request? https://launchpad.net/bugs/71980
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71980 in dmraid "dmraid: sync new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<bhale> dudes, where is OngoingMerge?
<bhale> what i really want is the page that shows pending merges by (ubuntu) maintainer
<geser> is there an other page besides http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html ?
<imbrandon> geser: for universe? no not currectly
<imbrandon> currently
<giskard> imbrandon, should we create a ml for beryl-bugs or we can use the ubuntu@lists.beryl-project.org?
<PriceChild> WHOA... have you guys seen mark's latest planet?
<PriceChild> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/81
<PriceChild> lol
<bhale> haha
<bhale> i dont know of any opensuse developers who dont work for novell
<PriceChild> still... that's a blog and a half :P
<bhale> probably all on the kde side
<bhale> yeah, ok
<imbrandon> giskard: we can use the LP bugmail settings for now , it will create a psudo ML when i import the bzr branch and create an LP team
<imbrandon> then we can make one at rt@ later
<bhale> geser: thanks i was looking in ~scott
<bhale> geser: i am an oldtimer
<giskard> imbrandon,  ok
<imbrandon> giskard: :) ( all good ideas but thats one great thing about using LP for the "base" it takes care of alot of that stuff , so we can focus on getting the packages "right" )
<_DvP_> Hi all, sorry for my bad english... I'm french
<_DvP_> I have a question for a package
<_DvP_> I made a package for recordmydesktop (and for the GUI in pyGTK) but there is an entry in Debian ITP : http://bugs.debian.org/381154
<_DvP_> What can I do ?
<MrNoFun> Hello... is this the right place to ask a dh_make question?
<Sp4rKy> hellp
<Sp4rKy> hello*
<MrNoFun> Hi
<imbrandon> _DvP_: you can email the person that filed the ITP and ask them their status
<_DvP_> imbrandon, ok, I do it right now
<_DvP_> thks
<imbrandon> .
<giskard> imbrandon, ping
<dholbach> i'm currently changing and dropping heaps of MOTU wiki pages
<dholbach> let me know if something breaks for you
<dholbach> i'm rigorous with old content
<LaserJock> dholbach!!
<dholbach>  hey LaserJock
<dholbach> motu/merging for example containted heaps of old stuff
<dholbach> maybe it's a good idea to search the wiki for 'dapper', 'breezy', etc
<LaserJock> yeah, merging is in pretty bad shape on the wiki
<LaserJock> dholbach: did I show you a draft MOTU frontpage I did the other day?
<dholbach> put it on the wiki
<dholbach> or is it there already?
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU
<dholbach> looks good
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock dholbach
<LaserJock> dholbach: I grabbed the header idea from the LoCo pages Jono has been doing
<dholbach> LaserJock: please replace it asap and ask for comments on the motu list - does that sound good?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i'm "borrowing" some of your motu school session for the OpenWeek talks ok?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: geeze, and I wasn't even invitied ;-)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: sure, if you need anything just let me know
<LaserJock> dholbach: righto
<imbrandon> LaserJock: actualy i was just about to invite you
<imbrandon> was writing a PM :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: got a sec ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> morning
<zul> hey ajmitch
<dholbach> LaserJock: i'll rename MOTU/Documentation to MOTU/Wiki/Overview or something
<dholbach> LaserJock:  and make MOTU/Documentation a list of documentation links
<LaserJock> dholbach: righto
* ajmitch hopes dholbach adds a page about council grayskull :)
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> mdz doesn't like the name :)
<LaserJock> of course he doesn't
<LaserJock> he's a CTO
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> dholbach: can we get rid of Enthusiasts altogether, I think it's confusing
<kiko> only crackheads like those names
<dholbach> fine with me, please drop it
<kiko> crackheads and.. err.. the president
<zul> LaserJock: i saw that as euthenasia
<LaserJock> zul: heh, not exactly.
<LaserJock> zul: it could forward to REVU ;-)
<zul> hehe
<dholbach> can we tighten MOTU/Processes/SRU or include the information in StableReleaseUpdates please?
<dholbach> somebody from the motu-sru team? ping?
<LaserJock> dholbach: when and how will Council Grayskull be formed? or do you have an idea yet :-)
<bhale> what is council grayskull
<imbrandon> heya zul , ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
<imbrandon> and bhale
<dholbach> i need to write up the process discussions we had at UDS and wait for a final review of the spec
<zul> hello imbrandon
<bhale> besides something named after the coolest castle in 80s cartoon history
<ajmitch> dholbach: I thought the spec was in pending approval mode?
<imbrandon> bhale: it will be a deligated CC type thing for just the MOTU's
<ajmitch> bhale: motu leadership team, handles things like approving new motus
<dholbach> it needs approval and a final review, yes
<LaserJock> dholbach: ooops, I thought it was already approved
<imbrandon> it basicly is i think, just formalities
<bhale> can I see the spec?
<imbrandon> bhale: sure, it should be on LP
<Adri2000> what are the dependences for a documentation binary package?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MotuProcessesSpec
<bhale> oh
<bhale> that would make more sense than: No products matching grayskull were found.
<bhale> thanks daniel
<ajmitch> bhale: blame mako for the name
<dholbach> can we drop HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch?
<bhale> ajmitch: i like the name
<imbrandon> dholbach: i would say so
<imbrandon> dholbach: that should just be a pointer to the package guide if anything
<bhale> do existing motus vote for members?
<dholbach> that's not decided yet
<dholbach> we're now at the point "what would a possible council do? and how would it do it?"
<bhale> so far we have arbitraily thown out 3 names from a hat to make these kinds of decisions
<bhale> which has been ok so far
<dholbach> that page has been linked from a couple of places, even from DeveloperResources
<dholbach> gngngngn
<imbrandon> dholbach: just make it redirect then to the package guide :)
<bhale> it says hoary all over it :)
<imbrandon> heh
<dholbach> LaserJock: your say on  HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch ?
<dholbach> the changelog says something about incorporating something in the packaging guide
<LaserJock> sorry, my wife was talking with me
<dholbach> LaserJock: don't let me stop you from talking to her!
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> I'd like to think that all packaging docs on the wiki are (or will be) obsoleted by the packaging guide
<bhale> this page is very heavy in historical baggage
<LaserJock> yes
* dholbach drops it
<LaserJock> I believe it was originally written by \sh
<LaserJock> I hate breaking things
<LaserJock> but it really isn't useful
<dholbach> LaserJock: we have too much broken documentation
<dholbach> far too much
<dholbach> in a big wiki like ours it's good to be rigorous
<LaserJock> people should be using the packaging guide and/or debian devel docs if they want to know how to package
<LaserJock> wiki's get stale
<imbrandon> turkey time ( again ) bbiab
<LaserJock> geeze, I can't keep up with dholbach
<dholbach> LaserJock: I stole your UbuntuPackagingGuide/Resources page and made it the new MOTU/Documentation :-)
<LaserJock> he's a wiki machine
<dholbach> naaaah :-)
<LaserJock> dholbach: ah, fine
<dholbach> i replaced the links also
<ajmitch> so wet & windy here
<ajmitch> it's meant to be nearly summer
<Amaranth> was 64F (18C) yesterday here
<LaserJock> Amaranth: did you see the filtering email on the -devel MLM?
<Amaranth> eh?
<Amaranth> oh, yeah
<Amaranth> Work on WillowNG is somewhere between "on hold" and "what's willowng?"
<Amaranth> Busy with school and beryl
<LaserJock> Amaranth: I wrote a reply bringing up with some info on willowng
<Amaranth> i saw
<LaserJock> hopefully it's accurate
<LaserJock> I hate emailing about other people's projects but the filtering thing is something I see fairly often
<Amaranth> looks accurate
<dholbach> \sh_away: what about the MOTU IM team? is it still in business?
<LaserJock> dholbach: so did you go through the MOTU/Packages/* ?
<dholbach> LaserJock: not yet
<Adri2000> I'm packaging a program with a GUI, but it has no .desktop file, I can create one but there is no icon (in the tarball, on their homepage...) :/ so should I create the .desktop file even with no icon?
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to send then a .desktop and ask them for an icon
<LaserJock> s/then/them/
<LaserJock> I think most software authors appreciate their apps showing up in the menus
<Adri2000> ok, I'll upload the package to revu and send an email to upstream
<dholbach> have a nice WE
<TokenBad> did something happen to the rar package in dapper
<Mez> TokenBad, what do you mean "happen" to the rar package? (I maintain rar)
<TokenBad> well I used to use rar...and did a search for apt-cache search rar and all found was unrar-free
<TokenBad> but I know rar used to be there
<geser> !info rar dapper
<ubotu> rar: Archiver for .rar files. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 3.30-2ubuntu2 (dapper), package size 236 kB, installed size 476 kB (Only available for i386)
<geser> TokenBad: have you multiverse enabled?
<TokenBad> yes
<TokenBad> I just checked again to be safe
<Mez> TokenBad, u i386 or some other arch?
<TokenBad> i386....
<TokenBad> Mez, I finally found it...but I had to uncheck multiverse...updated...then recheck and update again...that was weird...wonder why that would happen
<Mez> dunno ;)
<TokenBad> think it could have crashed in the update before?
<Mez> but feisty has new rar and unrar
<Mez> hmm i should backport those
<TokenBad> well thanks for help....glad to have rar back....
<MrNoFun> REVU question: what does the error message "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution" mean?
<MrNoFun> I'm a member of ubuntu-universe-contributors, and I've uploaded a package before.
<Burgwork> ANNOUNCE: -doc meeting in -meeting right now
<Mez> MrNoFun, did you get that in an email ?
<lifeless> you may have the wrong target in the changelog
<Mez> MrNoFun, that sounds like you uploaded to ubuntu by accident
<MrNoFun> I did get that in an e-mail, and I meant to upload to ubuntu. The target was feisty...
<PriceChild> shouldn't you be uploading to "revu"?
<MrNoFun> Yes, that's it. Sorry to bother you. :)
<Mez> MrNoFun, no worried - it's a good msitake to learn, specially for when you get upload rights ;)
<MrNoFun> Yup... I like learning things when I don't have the power to mess things up! Thanks for the help, Mez.
<Mez> better to learn it now than like me when you did have upload rights ;)
<giskard> imbrandon, ping
<Adri2000> I know that files shouldn't be generated outside debian during the build... but if they are modified? they exist in the tarball but are not the same after the build, should I also remove them in the clean rule?
<Adri2000> s/debian/debian\/ directory/
<LaserJock> Adri2000: the clean rule *should* get you back to the beginning tarball
<Adri2000> yes, but here it's not easily possible: they are not created, they are modified
<Adri2000> but I can patch the makefile to create the new files in another directory... :/
<Adri2000> (it's gtk-doc files)
<ajmitch> this is why dpatch unpatches during clean
<Adri2000> ajmitch: hm? it's not about patches
<LaserJock> Adri2000: I don't understand what you're doing?
<Adri2000> I'm packaging a program which has gtk-doc, and before uploading to revu I ran revu-report to see if files where created/modified outside the debian/directory, and all the generated doc files (html, .sgml, ...) during the build appear in debuild_test, but I can't delete them in the clean rule because they already exist in the upstream tarball
<Adri2000> they are different from those in the upstream tarball, they are modified, not newly created
* Adri2000 not sure to be understood :p
<LaserJock> Adri2000: so the clean rule modifies them?
<geser> as far as I understood him there are updated (regenerated) during the build
<Adri2000> LaserJock: the build create them
<Adri2000> geser: yep
<LaserJock> I'm not sure there's really a problem then
<LaserJock> if it isn't messing up the source package
<Adri2000> revu-report says that files are generated (in fact, regenerated) outside debian
<Adri2000> W: Building this package modifies or generates files not in debian/. See debuild_test and consider adding clean rules to debian/rules.
<LaserJock> now I'm confused
<ademan>  i'm trying to package a recent version of the eclipse-cdt, what do you think the best way for me to attack this is?  Re-use the old package's files (updated of course) and rebuild using the same tools?  Start from scratch? Or what?  (its a java package so i don't beleive ./configure && make are at all relevant here)
<ademan> oh, and please excuse my ignorance, i've never done this before, but i'm currently reading the relevant docs.  I just don't feel i'm totally grasping it
<LaserJock> ademan: update the existing package
<LaserJock> Adri2000: as long as it isn't messing up the source package I don't really see how it's a problem
<ademan> LaserJock: so then i'd need to know how the original package was built?
<LaserJock> ademan: sure
<LaserJock> ademan: is it in the Ubuntu repos?
<geser> !info eclipse-cdt
<ubotu> eclipse-cdt: C/C++ Development Tools for Eclipse. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0.1-3 (edgy), package size 17049 kB, installed size 21896 kB
<geser> yes it is
<Adri2000> LaserJock: it won't be accepted on revu, reviewers don't like to see created/modified files during the build
<ademan> yep, it sucks because i'm a c++ programmer (but i'm fresh from windows so i'm used to having an IDE) and the stupid eclipse-cdt doesn't work with the current eclipse version
<LaserJock> Adri2000: that doesn't seem right, of course there are created/modified files during build, that's what "building" is
<Adri2000> LaserJock: after the clean rule done *
<lifeless> ademan: apt-get source eclipse-cdt
<Adri2000> after the clean, it should be exactly the same as the upstream tarball (except the debian/ directory)
<ademan> lifeless: yep, done that already
<lifeless> ademan: that will get you a number of files. but the key thing is a diff and an upstream tarball
<lifeless> grab the upstream tarball for the new eclipse-cdt and apply the diff
<ademan> ok, so i need to write a new diff?
<ademan> what do you mean apply the diff?
<Fujitsu> ademan: You need to change into the directory apt-get just created, and run `uupdate /path/to/new/tarball'
<lifeless> gunzip -c ...diff.gz | patch -p1
<lifeless> ademan: you probably want to read one of the packaging tutorials about now
<Fujitsu> uupdate will attempt to apply the diff to the new tarball.
<lifeless> Adri2000: thats not true. after clean, it should be ready to build, and have whatever diff is needed to package it correctly.
<lifeless> Adri2000: altering just debian/ is interesting but irrelevant
<Adri2000> lifeless: well, why revu-report shows a warning about that then?
<Adri2000> and debuild_test would be useless?
<lifeless> Adri2000: dunno, its on crack ?
<Adri2000> "on crack"?
<Adri2000> lifeless: sorry, it's a language problem, I don't understand
<Adri2000> revu-report is in the package revu-tools used by the revu reviewers
<lifeless> thats colloqiual sorry. I mean, its a warning that someone has put in which I dont agree with
<Adri2000> ok
<Adri2000> I will upload to revu, and will ask upstream to remove these files, shipping these files is like shipping binaries... :/
<Sp4rKy> Adri2000: not really, because they're created during make process if they don't exists, right ?
<Sp4rKy> Adri2000: if it is, just remove them from tarball source, write this in changelog, and ask upstream to remove them from tarball
<Adri2000> Sp4rKy: (as I just said in the fr channel ;)) I will first email upstream and if I get no response I will modify the tarball
<Sp4rKy> like you want :)
<ademan> lifeless: yeah i'm reading whats in system->help->system documentation
<ademan> but apt-get seemed to suggest that it already applied a patch
<lifeless> ademan: it did, to the old version of the code. you need to apply it to the new one, which Fujitsu told you how to do easily :)
<ademan> lifeless: really? that easy? wow
<ademan> lifeless: it wants a version, what format should it be in? 3.1.1 ?
<lifeless> its a debian version number. Look at the previous version's changelog to see what that might look like
<lifeless> as you are climbing a curve here, your REVU'er will need to check it, I'dguess 3.1.1-0ubuntu1 is right for now
<ademan> old version here: 3.0.1-3
<gnomefreak> what do i use as a package place holder in bash? $package?
<gnomefreak> new packages are normally 0ubuntu1
<ademan> alright, thanks
<ademan> so now that i've done uupdate do i build the package with pbuilder?
<ademan> and i guess more importantly how do i submit this to be reviewed?
<ademan> (well assuming that's the next step)
<geser> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Fujitsu> REVU is only for new packages.
<Adri2000> hey Fujitsu :)
<Fujitsu> Hi Adri2000.
<geser> who reviews updated packages from unexpierenced people?
<zorglu_> q. i would like to create a small repository for my own softwares, where should i look ?
<gnomefreak> zorglu_: falcon ;)
<ademan> zorglu_: yeah falcon
<zorglu_> gnomefreak: seens that on seveas repository but the link to the software is broken
<gnomefreak> zorglu_: oh
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: still waiting for the new release of homebank, I will re-email upstream to know what is going on
<gnomefreak> sorry havent looked at seveas repo in a long time
<gnomefreak> hes not on atm :(
<Adri2000> for any motu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3540 :)
<zorglu_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages at the bottom there is http://kaarsemaker.net/software which is a page in weird language without software :)
<zorglu_> any other suggestion ?
<gnomefreak> its in dutch most likely
<zorglu_> oh i found the proper link http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/Software/
<ademan> so yeah, i'm sorry to keep pestering you guys, but what not? i've got a dir eclipse-cdt-3.1.1-0ubuntu1-1  and eclipse-cdt-3.1.1-0ubuntu1-1.orig  what should i do now?
<ademan> what now*
<Sp4rKy> freeflying: ping
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-25
<ademan> there's no *.dsc file in my deb directory
<crimsun> what's with the versioning?
<geser> it's normaly in the dir with the .orig.tar.gz and .diff.gz
<crimsun> 3.1.1-0ubuntu1-1  <-
<geser> hello crimsun
<crimsun> hi geser
<LaserJock> haha, the opensuse thing on -devel is awesome
<ademan> crimsun: i dunno, i gave it 3.1.1-0ubuntu1 and it tacked on the -1
<geser> crimsun: is it acceptable to backport a package from feisty to {dapper|edgy}-updates? it's for bug 72921
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72921 in php4 "Several unfixed CVEs for php4 in Ubuntu Dapper and Edgy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72921
<geser> or should I try to collect the patches?
<ademan> geser: yeah but its the OLD desc
<ademan> do i need to modify it somehow?
<zul> geez this cant be good..
<LaserJock> geser: -security and -updates gets more users
<LaserJock> geser: -backports is easier
<geser> is -backports the right place for security updates?
<LaserJock> not particularly
<geser> I'd like to avoid to hunt for the patches
<geser> ademan: the new .dsc gets generated when you build the new source package
<crimsun> geser: -security is, ideally.
<ademan> geser: how do i build it without the new dsc though?
<geser> I'm currently trying to find out if a new upstream version (bugfix release) would be acceptable for -security
<geser> ademan: run dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot inside the package dir
<crimsun> geser: backport if at all possible.
<crimsun> geser: the exception I'm considering is for something like flashplugin-nonfree, which _has_ to pull down a new upstream version
<ademan> geser alright, and i want to get this updated package into the repositories, what do i submit to where?
* crimsun prepares to grab some revu packages for his flight tomorrow
<geser> ademan: does it build in a feisty pbuilder?
<ademan> geser: so i would need to dpkg-buildpackage then proceed to pbuilder build TheDscFile.dsc   ?
<ademan> and i dunno, i'm interested in getting it into edgy, its an IMPORTANT bugfix
<crimsun> does it build, install, function correctly, and deinstall correctly in an edgy pbuilder, then?
<ademan> well, when i ran dpkg-buildpackage   i got this: http://rafb.net/paste/results/nz9Rn630.html    it looks like i need a gpg key or something?
<geser> does somebody know a good place to find patches for reported CVEs?
<geser> ademan: looks ok
<geser> since you can't upload it, it's no problem with the missing gpg key
<crimsun> geser: Debian BTS & upstream rcs
<zul> geser: mitre
<ademan> geser: i can't upload it? well ok then i'll procceed to the pbuilder build and i'll get back to yo uguys (i'm goin to lunch first)
<ademan> thanks a lot
<geser> ademan: you need to be a motu to upload to ubuntu universe
<ademan> geser: so i can't even upload for review or anything?
<azeem> bddebian: sorry, where did you have the bkchem packages again?
<crimsun> ademan: if you've followed the directions for REVU, you can upload there
<ademan> crimsun: even though its not a new package?
<crimsun> azeem: sorry about the spam for Ubuntu Feisty's xmakemol; I'll check with infinity to see if it's intentional given the maintainer field
<crimsun> ademan: then file a bug against the source package using LP, and link us to the bug #
<ademan> the bugs been around for a while
<crimsun> ademan: then attach your debdiff and build log to the (main) existing bug report
<ademan> ok
<crimsun> Burgwork++  (RE: -devel)
<ademan> for the record here's the bug, but i'm goin out to lunch hopefully i can fix this
<ademan> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/eclipse-cdt/+bug/68661
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68661 in eclipse-cdt "Current version 3.0.1 crashes Eclipse at startup." [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<Burgwork> crimsun: I try
<azeem> bddebian: never mind, found it
<azeem> crimsun: np, I didn't have time to look at feisty yet :-/
<bddebian> azeem: OK, sorry
<Adri2000> geser: when you file a bug report for a merge, the debdiffs are from the last ubuntu version?
<geser> I usually provide a debdiff from the last debian version and one from the last ubuntu version (only if same upstream version)
<geser> I don't know which of the two debdiffs crimsun prefers
<Adri2000> okay
<Adri2000> crimsun: here? do you need both debdiffs?
<crimsun> geser: I generally go with whichever requires pulling fewer bytes over the 'net
<crimsun> geser: really, it doesn't matter; I end up working with whatever the reporter provides
<crimsun> Adri2000: (see above)
<Adri2000> ok
<Adri2000> crimsun: bug 73200, I hope it is ok :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73200 in colormake "[Merge]  colormake 0.2-4.2ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73200
<Adri2000> (universe)
<geser> Adri2000: looks ok to me (for what it's worth)
<Adri2000> geser: thanks, and... I was wondering what are you waiting to apply as a motu? :p nice list of uploaded packages! :)
<geser> currently I'm waiting for the Council Greyskull to get formed
<nixternal> crimsun: if there is a package that has the potential to cause damage to the sudoers file in dapper and edgy, what is the proper procedure?
<nixternal> i am talking about smb4k
<nixternal> i am fixing the feisty version now and will upload to review shortly
<nixternal> bug 72065 to be exact
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72065 in smb4k "smb4k screwed the sudoers sudo command no longer available! " [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72065
<crimsun> nixternal: that would be critical, not high
<nixternal> hmm..i thought it was critical
<nixternal> just noticed that as well
<crimsun> if you have a fix for it, make a debdiff for it ASAP so we can push it into -proposed
<nixternal> it is a new upstream release
<nixternal> 0.7.5
<crimsun> nixternal: backport the fix if at all possible
<nixternal> you mean package it for edgy and dapper as well?
<crimsun> nixternal: generate debdiffs for whichever packages are affected, with expendiency toward 6.06.1 LTS
<crimsun> [I generally place highest priority on bugs that affect dapper] 
<nixternal> roger
<nixternal> gotta build a dapper env
<Adri2000> crimsun: thanks :)
<crimsun> Adri2000: np
<nixternal> crimsun: should i attach that debdiff for dapper to the bug?
<nixternal> assuming that i did it correct (it did test build here though)
<crimsun> nixternal: sure. Unless you want me to wave my hands and guess. :-)
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> it is uploading to the bug now
<nixternal> one sec
<lastnode> crimsun, we're just about to release 0.2, if you'd like to do some testing, you know where to come ;-)
<nixternal> dapper debdiff in bug 72065
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72065 in smb4k "smb4k screwed the sudoers sudo command no longer available! " [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72065
<crimsun> nixternal: that is a _huge_ debdiff
<nixternal> yup
<crimsun> nixternal: will you isolate just the bugfix for that issue, please?
<nixternal> went from 0.6.5 in dapper to 0.7.5
<nixternal> i think that is beyond my skills at this time
<crimsun> we can't drop new upstream versions into -updates randomly
<nixternal> cd ../
<nixternal> derrr
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/smb4k-0611242045/lintian
<nixternal> someone get a chance, revu that and try to get it up asap for feisty ;)
<crimsun> is 0.7.5 even released?
<nixternal> he hasn't put it up yet, he emailed it to me though
<crimsun> you're supposed to use LP for existing packages, btw.
<lastnode> woah dejavu
<nixternal> use lp for new upstream releases as well?
<crimsun> yes, if the package already exists in Ubuntu, don't use revu
<nixternal> ahhh
<crimsun> ->dinner
<nixternal> see, everyone tells me to put it on revu
<nixternal> thats it..im only listening to crimsun from now on
* ajmitch won't tell nixternal anything from now on
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> i will listen to ajmitch too
<nixternal> but thats it
<ajmitch> silly nixternal
<nixternal> don't try and sneak in now and get on my "i will listen to you" list either ;p
<ajmitch> but you shouldn't listen to me
<ademan> pbuilder build is giving me an error that it can't satisfy dependancies, i did sudo apt-get build-dep for the package i'm trying to build, i guess i need to get it into the pbuilder image?
<Lathiat> ademan: it's possible you dont have all the archives in pbuilder, e.g. universe and/or multiverse
<LaserJock> I wish this Open Week wasn't cloaked in OpenSuse politics :/
<LaserJock> I was all enthusiastic about it until Mark's post
<ajmitch> & the ensuing thread on the opensuse list where mark posted it...
* Hobbsee wonders what the contributors to it will do, if they dont agree with mark
* ajmitch isn't contributing
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I'm not sure
<LaserJock> I suppose I'll go along
<LaserJock> as I think it's a good thing
<LaserJock> I just don't like the opensuse stuff surrounding it
<ajmitch> it's at a rather bad time for me
<LaserJock> yeah, that's what I thought
<LaserJock> the week in particular or the times?
<ajmitch> times
<Hobbsee> right, what'd i miss?
* Hobbsee got bitten by the "keyboard stops working" bug
<Hobbsee> indeed
<Hobbsee> 2-8am here
<LaserJock> I said:
<LaserJock> I suppose I'll go along
<LaserJock> as I think it's a good thing
<LaserJock> I just don't like the opensuse stuff surrounding it
<LaserJock> I'm just hoping that it wasn't him that sent the email to the opensuse ML
<ajmitch> it seems that it was
<LaserJock> unfortunately so
<LaserJock> I just can't imagine what he was thinking :/
<ajmitch> if he was
<LaserJock> I'm pretty impressed with most of the response on the opensuse ML and blog
<poningru> wait what?
<LaserJock> poningru: did you read Mark's blog?
<poningru> sabdfl didnt send the email to opensuse ml did he?
<poningru> yeah
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> he did
<poningru> :(
<poningru> I thought it was someone else...
<poningru> sigh
<joejaxx> LaserJock: does sudo dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hda
<joejaxx> do what i think it does?
<LaserJock> I'd kinda think so, I've never tried it
<plugwash> if what you think it does is cover /dev/hda1 in psuedorandom data then yes
<plugwash> for most perposes just overwriting with zeros will be perfectly sufficiant and much faster though
<plugwash> and finally remember that modern hard drives remap weak sectors, so overwriting every sector visible to the controller is no gaurantee you've overwritten every sector on the platter
<joejaxx> yeah that is what i thought
<joejaxx> it overwrites your hard drive
<zelda276> you should be overwriting the hd multiple times
<joejaxx> can a /win 19
<joejaxx> bah
<plugwash> zelda276 if you are trying to hide stuff from someone who would go to the time and expense of platter level data recovery you are better off destroying the drive
<joejaxx> plugwash: yeah
<joejaxx> opening up the hard drive
<joejaxx> and smashing the platters
* LaserJock thinks of ways to do it with lasers :-)
<plugwash> nah sand off the magnetic material
<plugwash> and then dump what comes off in strong acid just to make sure
<joejaxx> true
<zelda276> plugwash: agreed. although the microwave is more entertaining
<joejaxx> LaserJock: hahaha that is funny
<joejaxx> LaserJock: can what you do in a chroot environment damange the outside system?
<plugwash> i heared a white phosphorus grenade is also considered reasonablly effective if time is of the essense
<plugwash> joejaxx yes, root in a chroot is still root and can still do everything that root can normally do
<joejaxx> interesting
<Fujitsu> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: what?
<Fujitsu> I haven't seen you in a few days :P
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I put a posting on the forums to test the gcl/maxima fix
<Fujitsu> Good, good.
<Fujitsu> We've only had two +1s so far :(
<LaserJock> how many days has it been?
* ajmitch wonders how many +1 we have for libnss-ldap
* Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> About 1.5, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: doesn't seem to bad to me
<Fujitsu> Erm, an interesting post in the science forum:
<Fujitsu> `No one should really be recommendng Edgy for everyday computing, '
* ajmitch thinks getting 5 votes for packages is going to be a challenge when noone knows that they're up for testing
* ajmitch is still confused as to what the correct procedure for SRU is, since it never seemed to get finalised on the wiki
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: really?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: really?
<LaserJock> I thought we got it finalized
<ajmitch> it seemed like the thread just stopped on the mailing list
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: In the `Maxima / TexMacs' thread.
<ajmitch> & noone from the SRU team has written the final page
<Amaranth> SRU?
<Fujitsu> Stable Release Updates
<Amaranth> ah, right
<Hobbsee> why do i get http://pastebin.ca/257273 - ie, how can i fix it?
<Fujitsu> The easiest way to fix it is to not use dodgy specialised-preprocessor-requiring toolkits.
* Fujitsu ducks.
<Hobbsee> heh
<StevenK> Hobbsee: The .cpp file might define the same method for a class twice.
<MrNoFun> Hello, MOTUs... I have another REVU issue (sorry to bug you again, but I'm finally learning the "right" way to do packaging, and, well, I want to do it right).
<MrNoFun> No, wait... never mind. I was trying to log into REVU with my Launchpad name, not my e-mail address. Oops.
<LaserJock> geeze, my irssi status bar is getting big :/
<luisbg> anybody knows a dbus service done in python?
<luisbg> any way to see which packages depend on a package?
<LaserJock> apt-cache rdepends
<Hobbsee> luisbg: apt-cache rdepends package
<luisbg> Hobbsee, thanks
<luisbg> you got to love apt =)
<luisbg> just helped me a lot
<ademan> Lathiat: how would i add repositories to pbuilder?
<Sp4rKy> hi
<ademan>  pbuilder build is giving me an error that it can't satisfy dependancies, i did sudo apt-get build-dep for the package i'm trying to build, i guess i need to get it into the pbuilder image?
<enyc> hrrm
<Sp4rKy> ademan: try sudo pbuilduer update --override-config
<ademan> you mean sudo right?
<ademan> oh geeze
<ademan> you said sudo
<ademan> sorry, i guess i'm out of it
<Sp4rKy> :)
<enyc> hrrm
<ademan> do i then procceed to do the pbuilder build ?
<Sp4rKy> yes
<Sp4rKy> if your dep packages exists in repo, it should be updated with the pbuilder update command
<ademan> hrm, well after doing pbuilder update i ended up with this: http://rafb.net/paste/results/rqXPYs77.html  (well thats the pbuilder build)
<ademan> i'm sorry i feel i'm pretty ignorant of all this, but i have been reading the relevant materials, i just haven't been grasping them very well
<DarkMageZ> is universe enabled in your pbuilder?
<Sp4rKy> seems not
<Sp4rKy> ademan: you probably didn't added the universe repo in your pbuilder
<ademan> how might i go about that?
<Sp4rKy> uncomment this line
<Sp4rKy> #COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
<DarkMageZ> try sudo pbuilder update --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ ?distro? universe" --override-config
<Sp4rKy> in your ~/.pbuilderrc
<ademan> i seem to have no such file
<Sp4rKy> :p
<Sp4rKy> cp /etc/pbuilderrc ~/.pbuilderrc
<ademan> ah ok
<ademan> thanks
<Sp4rKy> np
<Sp4rKy> i've a copyright question
<Sp4rKy> i've this file in my package :
<Sp4rKy> http://paste.sos-sts.com/?34
<Sp4rKy> and my debian/copyright file is http://paste.sos-sts.com/?35
<Sp4rKy> must i add some lines in debian/coppyright before remove the othere file from the deb (lintian warn me about it)
<Sp4rKy> ?
<ademan> hrm i think my package is actually building, sweet
<ademan> Sp4rKy: i wish i could help but honestly i haven't a clue, as you can tell, i'm lost and bewildered :-)
<imbrandon> Sp4rKy: yes all copyright info needs to be in debian/copyright
<imbrandon> no matter what the license is
<Sp4rKy> ademan: :)
<Sp4rKy> imbrandon: in fact, my question should be "is the same licence" :)
<Sp4rKy> s/is/are
<imbrandon> Sp4rKy: what ?
<Sp4rKy> i don't really see the difference between the 2 licences
<imbrandon> what two ?
<Sp4rKy> those of the file in package & those of debian/changelog
<ademan> also, i want this package i'm building to make it into universe (its an upstream update for the eclipse-cdt package which fixes a major incompatibility issue) what do i need to do to get this package reviewed and hopefully into universe?
<imbrandon> Sp4rKy: it dosent matter , they are not the exact word for word, byte for byte the same
<imbrandon> they must be listed
* imbrandon is afk
<ademan> the reviewing is pretty important imho, since i'm well intentioned, but clearly quite clueless
<imbrandon> ademan: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ademan> imbrandon: i was told thats only for NEW packages, not updates
<Sp4rKy> ademan: you need to put in in revu.tauware.de
<imbrandon> ahh is its an update then it needs to go on malone
<ademan> Sp4rKy: the actual deb? or a debdiff or what?
<Sp4rKy> ademan: revu is needed for twice
<Sp4rKy> the actual
<imbrandon> ademan: the debdiff
<imbrandon> Sp4rKy: NO
<imbrandon> i just said that updates dont go on revu
<imbrandon> updates go as debdiff's on malone , and ubuntu-universe-sponsors are subscribed
<Sp4rKy> oups
<ademan> malone = the bug system?
<Sp4rKy> yep
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<TheMuso> Congrats on the job offer BTW.
<ajmitch> imbrandon!
<TheMuso> Heya ajmitch.
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso
<ademan> so i'd attach just the debdiff to a bugreport comment? how could i get attention for it?
<ademan> because its fairly urgent for me, i NEED my C/C++ development environment back
<Sp4rKy> subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsore
<ademan> ah ok
<ademan> well i'm off to bed for now
<ademan> thanks all
<ademan> i'll hopefully have this done by noon tomorow
<ademan> and by the next day (cross my fingers) have the new package in the repositories
<Sp4rKy> ...
<enyc> Hrrm
<enyc> Please let me know if I am supposed to 'assign' this bug to somebody or help somehow  with this bug -- https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/qpsmtpd/+bug/72602
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72602 in qpsmtpd "qpsmtpd should create /var/run/qpsmtpd in init.d (/var/run/ is tmpfs)" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<enyc> I dont know quite what the procedure is after this point
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch TheMuso
<imbrandon> TheMuso: thanks
<imbrandon> its a freakin busy week
<TheMuso> I'll bet.
<imbrandon> new job + open week + a side contract + other talks + lug talks
<imbrandon> all this week :(
<imbrandon> PLUS stuff to get merged and such :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: found any 'volunteers' for open week?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yup got it covered
<ajmitch> good, who's doing it?
<poningru> ajmitch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<ajmitch> poningru: yes?
<ajmitch> StevenK: happy birthday to linda ;)
* StevenK grins.
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> (Oh dear God, has it been 5 years?)
<imbrandon> robbing the cradle StevenK
<StevenK> Speak for yourself.
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon has no motovation to absolutely anything today
* StevenK has just upgraded his desktop to Edgy.
<imbrandon> and feisty tomarrow ?
<StevenK> "Tomorrow"? I don't think so. :-P
<imbrandon> :)
<enyc> nilson: /YUO SUCCEEDING/
<enyc> argh
<enyc> nilson: ?you succeeding?
* enyc has funny problems with shift-states in the console on edgy ;-(
<ajmitch> imbrandon: nah, tonight
<imbrandon> ajmitch: :)
* enyc error
<imbrandon> hrm i think i might mess with linux on my usb stick for a little while, to see if i get some motovation
<imbrandon> to do something constructive
<poningru> imbrandon: hehe working on that myself
<poningru> using grubfor win to make a bootable usb without bios option to do so
<ajmitch> I can't believe that person did a reminder spam on the ubuntu-devel list...
* StevenK kicks apt.
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: after his first email, indeed
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: an interesting day, no?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I think he needs a little etiquette education
<ajmitch> hi ogra
<ogra> hey
<Burgundavia> I considered posting something similar back in early Nov, but then realized it was crackish and dropped it
<Burgundavia> hey ogra
<imbrandon> moins Burgundavia and ogra
<Burgundavia> hey imbrandon
<ogra> :)
<lucas> what's the state of this "proprietary drivers in the default install" decision ? any URL confirming it ?
<Burgundavia> ogra: your boss be stirring the pot a wee smidgen while you were travelling
<Burgundavia> lucas: spec is still at pending approval
<lucas> ok
<ogra> Burgundavia, well, whats wrong with providing an open day to people wiling to switch ?
<Burgundavia> ogra: the manner is which the announcement was made
<ogra> he's just honest ...
<ajmitch> and tactless
<ogra> better than being a tactful liar
<Burgundavia> I would disagree
<Burgundavia> society functions because people treat each other politely
<Burgundavia> I consider Marks post a violation of the spirit, if not hte letter, of the CoC
<Burgundavia> the "treat other people respectfully" part
<ogra> where is he treating anyone unrespectful ?
<Burgundavia> by attempting to poach users directly from suse, on their own mailing lists
<ogra> i dont see your point, he doesnt say SuSE is bad, he just says we're open if you want to come ...
<Burgundavia> jpr said it well: You can try and dress it up all you want, but you're an intelligent
<Burgundavia> person and you knew exactly what you were doing when you sent this and I
<Burgundavia> doubt the motive was not pure.
<Burgundavia> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03788.html
<ogra> still, he didnt attack anyone or be unrespectful to anyone in a direct manner ... i dont see the CoC violation you try to make up
<Burgundavia> so it is ok if random distros start posting on our mailing lists, saying their distro is more free and we should go work on them?
<ogra> he just sent a polite invitation to the devs
<ogra> sure it is
<Burgundavia> would you not consider that disrespect? I would
<ogra> nexenta is doing that quite often for example ... and they are not even a linux distro
<Burgundavia> yes, and nobody really likes them for it
<Burgundavia> Jamie McCracken of Tracker does it as well
<Burgundavia> it grates
<ajmitch> they aren't doing it in a tone of "look, canonical has screwed you over"
<ogra> but i dont consider it a CoC violation in any way
* ajmitch considers it to be amazingly poor form at least
<Burgundavia> "We
<Burgundavia>       expect members of the Ubuntu community to be respectful when
<Burgundavia>       dealing with other contributors as well as with people outside
<Burgundavia>       the Ubuntu project and with users of Ubuntu."
<Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1
<ogra> it could have been written more sensible but that still doesnt make it a CoC vioation
<Burgundavia> " Ubuntu and Free Software are about collaboration and working together."
<Burgundavia> that post is not about working together
<Burgundavia> Mark also violates the "When you disagree" and "When you are unsure" sections
<ogra> ??
<Burgundavia> espeically the 2nd
<Burgundavia> I do not see mdz or jono saying yes
<ogra> jono organized the event ...
<Burgundavia> with that specific goal in mind?
<ogra> and mdz doesnt disagree apparently
<Burgundavia> wow
<Burgundavia> I am fucking stunned
<Burgundavia> if Mark had said in his blog "We welcome all developers" and not posted to the opensuse, I consider that above the board
<Burgundavia> that is extending an invitation, not conducting a raid
<StevenK> Ouch.
<Burgundavia> because, ultimately, we use Ubuntu because it rocks, not because $OTHER_DISTRO sucks|has issues|has dumb management
<elkbuntu> ogra, i think im on the same page as Burgundavia here. it's not the open day or it's actual purpose that is the objectional thing. it's the way the blog post/list mail was done.
<ogra> he said "come over if you think $OTHER_DISTRO sucks"
<StevenK> I also agree with Burgundavia/elkbuntu.
<ogra> he didnt say "because $OTHER_DISTRO sucks come over"
<Burgundavia> I would disagree with you there
<elkbuntu> ogra, actually, he did. he said '$other_distro sucks because they've become MS's lapdog'
<ogra> elkbuntu, can you show me that quote ?
<imbrandon> right, and also look at too that jono did the event and those of us talking ( that i know of ) arent targeting suse, mark just oversteped his wording when he invited them
<ogra> he surely didnt use these words ...
* Hobbsee waves
<elkbuntu> ogra, can you show me either of your quotes?
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, the overstep is the bit we're pissed about
<ogra> nope, i didnt quote
<elkbuntu> ogra, actually your first thing said 'he said'
<ajmitch> imbrandon: right now it looks like the only reason for the open week is to attract suse people
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: but thats one persons invitation, not the event tits self, if you dont like it tell him
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: when that one person is the single most important person in our distro, it tarnishes the event completely
<imbrandon> ajmitch: thats because mostly everyone reads marks post, go back and read the event release from jono
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, you're like disagreeing with me by agreeing with me.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: considering that's the only announcement of the event I've seen
* ogra has to go for a groupphoto, bbl
<ajmitch> imbrandon: where did jono announce it?
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, jono blogged maybe 24 hours before
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: on planet
<ajmitch> just planet?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: jono announced it a day ago
<elkbuntu> that however doesnt improve mark's announcement/invitation/whatever in the least
<crimsun> [I don't read planet.uc regularly, though] 
<Burgundavia> Mark also implies that our house is completely clean, while in fact with binary drivers and Launchpad, we are in a bit of glass house right now
<imbrandon> on the wiki and planet, same as mark, the only diffrence is the words mark choose when he invited a group that he thought would benifet, i agree it was kinda fubard but most of the discontent from the suse side was the wording , not the content
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: and getting worse each release
<ajmitch> there are a number of people less than happy with the binary driver issue & the lack of discussion so far
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: thats the thing , marks wasent an announcement either is was an ill worded invatation
<ajmitch> if it were done by someone else, it'd be accurately called trolling :)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Does binary driver stuff include open source wireless drivers with binary firmware, such as the ipw series of cards?
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, tomayto tomarto
<ajmitch> TheMuso: that's always been accepted with no discussion
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: to a certain extent. I consider binary wireless and networking drivers to be an issue
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: that makes a diffrence though
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, it still stinks
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: however, the needed functionality is critical
<Burgundavia> what Mark should be doing is funding work to remove the need for those drivers
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: right but bitching about the wrong thing dosent help any , infact it makes it worse
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: Yeah. But we had to ask Intel whether we could re-distribute the firmware right?
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: I am not certain. I know broadcom is refusing to budge
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, shutting up about something that we feel isnt right doesnt work either.
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: the issue is, the announcement has been made. Now we (the community) have to deal with the fallout
<admin123> i'm in search of packages that use debconf templates
<admin123> does anyone have some good package examples
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: i in no way shape or form said shut up about it, hell voice your opinions loudly, i just was offiering that you direct them constructively
* ajmitch wonders why his AD install is unreachable
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: what constructive way is there to voice our opinions?
<crimsun> admin123: flashplugin-nonfree does.
<admin123> crimsun, something that invokes processbar perhaps?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: the official channels are TB & CC meetings
<crimsun> admin123: no
<admin123> crimsun, no what?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: how do you censure somebody that sits on both?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: well Burgundavia did so to some extent as he has the same reach on planet as the marks post, also talk with mark, privately or publicly, also email suse list yourself and voice how YOU think it should go etc etc etc, invite fedora too ( in a PC way ) etc etc etc
<imbrandon> there is tons of things
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: you can't, you can only complain
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: me != Mark
<imbrandon> but just saying the whole thing is F*CKED now is not helping
<Burgundavia> I don't have the same name recognition
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: which they arent having either of any time soon, of course, according to the topic in -meeting
<Burgundavia> many due to needed new CC/TB
<Burgundavia> which I have seen no sign of
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: i said the same reach on planet, and no you != mark but if you have valid points poeple will listen, i just dont see making it a flame war in our camp can help matters any when pubicly in the suse camp they handled the list very well IMHO
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: I don't view this as a flame war
<Burgundavia> and I don't think it will
<lucas> Burgundavia: you were cited on linux.com
<lucas> http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/11/25/028237
<elkbuntu> brandon does have at least one valid point here.. this isnt the right place to discuss it as such
<crimsun> admin123: what is a "processbar"?
<Burgundavia> lucas: 2nd time. I got quoted on the binary driver thing as well
<admin123> crimsun, I meant progress bar
<admin123> s/bar/info/g
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: it's good to talk about it somewhere
<crimsun> admin123: no, it doesn't invoke a progressbar
<Burgundavia> lucas: apparently I say quotable things
<lucas> :-)
<admin123> crimsun, I'm in search of a package that does, could you perhaps refer to one?
<crimsun> admin123: your search is as good as mine.
<Burgundavia> lucas: I also blogged with 30 minutes of Mark's email, so I had the first mover advantage
<lucas> Burgundavia: you might get quoted on slashdot too :)
<ajmitch> lucas: that's no great honour
<Burgundavia> oh joy. The holy or holys
<lucas> ajmitch: maybe, but people read it and notice it ;)
<lucas> it's crazy to see how many people you barely know come to you and say "oh, I saw you were quoted on slashdot"
* ajmitch is happy to never be quoted
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: you clearly don't work in sales
<ajmitch> and I'm glad of that
<TheMuso> Whats the traffic like on sounder?
<Burgundavia> nothing yet. All gone to both
<TheMuso> I mean generally
<ajmitch> fairly quiet
<elkbuntu> arent people still recovering from turkey day or something?
<ajmitch> http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder <-- shiny graph of traffic
<TheMuso> Meh. If its rather quiet, I think I can handle it. :)
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: wrong month for canadians
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, well, true
<imbrandon> TheMuso: it goes in sputs , some days 20+ messages but overall very quiet
<TheMuso> imbrandon: RIght.
* TheMuso adds a rule to procmail file.
<ajmitch> seems to average about 10-15
<ajmitch> per day
<ajmitch> but I think it's probably less
<Platyna> Huhu, what an attitude on this topic.
<Platyna> Hello.
<imbrandon> hello Platyna
<crimsun> hi, please restate your question, Platyna.
<imbrandon> attitude on the MOTU topic ?
<Platyna> crimsun: So. We have setup Ubuntu repository but it is rather a temporary solution.
<Platyna> So, maybe our project (a MMORPG) could be added to the official distribution.
<Platyna> It is quite well established project.
<Platyna> And it works!
<imbrandon> is it under a free license ?
<Platyna> GPL'd.
<Platyna> Want an URL?
<imbrandon> cool ( including all data files etc , that happens alot with games )
<Platyna> Yes, including graphics, sound etc.
<Platyna> http://themanaworld.org
<crimsun> Platyna: please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<Platyna> Maybe you could package it better for Ubuntu or something. I don't know, since I am Slackware maintainer. But we have alot of Ubuntu users so I want them to feel comfty.
<Platyna> Well, our project is not listed there.
<crimsun> Platyna: you need to add it, then.
<Platyna> But I just need to add a project or a package?
<crimsun> Platyna: you need to create the source package and upload it to REVU
<Platyna> Source package? *.tar.gz?
<Platyna> Don't speak to me, like to Ubuntu user, please. ;)
<Platyna> Consider me abroad stranger.
<crimsun> Platyna: you have two options, 1) request that it be packaged by someone else, 2) package it yourself and submit it to REVU for peer review
<imbrandon> well you need to take the person that build the deb's and have him upload the debian source package ( normaly 3 files ) to REVU
<Platyna> Ok. I will notify other developers.
<Platyna> And users will have it on their default repository, yes?
<imbrandon> that is the begining to that process yes, to get it in the feisty release
<Platyna> What does "feisty" means? I am not native English speaker.
<imbrandon> its the name of the currect devlopment version that will be release in 07
<Platyna> Ok.
<Platyna> Then I will catch a person responsible and eventually come back to you. Thanks for your support.
<Platyna> See you.
<ajmitch> night all
<Hobbsee> night ajmitch
<Burgundavia> hmm, which is ajmitch, who is 8 hours behind me, going to bed before me?
<elkbuntu> well it would be nearing 2am over there iirc
<Burgundavia> ah, right, nz, not au
<StevenK> Burgundavia: If you read Pratchett, this akin to calling The Librarian a monkey.
<StevenK> this is
<Burgundavia> only 4 hours
<Burgundavia> StevenK: I believe the correct ape is an orangutang
<Burgundavia> which I just horribly butchered
<StevenK> I'm aware the Librarian is an orangutang. You don't recall what he does when someone calls him a monkey?
<Burgundavia> indeed I Od
<Burgundavia> do, rather
<StevenK> Burgundavia: That is what ajmitch is going to do when he sees that you thought he was in .au
<Hobbsee> which is also my response when i'm asked if i'm a new zealander.  grumble
<Burgundavia> well, I do live in the US :)
<StevenK> Hah
<imbrandon> yea its all one big place down there right ? /me ducks
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: i thought you were in ca ?
<Burgundavia> I am in the US in the same way that ajmitch is in AU
<imbrandon> ahh
* StevenK teaches imbrandon about 'subtleness'
<StevenK> ... with a block of 4x2 :-P
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> well i _DO_ live in the US ( and apparently a redneck too ) so i have an excuse :)
<Burgundavia> no accounting for taste amongst some :)
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> darn those rednecks...
<imbrandon> i just like Riddell's face when we called him an englishmen at UDS :)
<imbrandon> that was classic
<Hobbsee> always causing trouble
<Hobbsee> haha - what was it?
<imbrandon> first time i thought that soft spoken person was gonna explode and kill one of us , i cant rember whom all was standing there but it was me and jono and seele for sure
<imbrandon> i think cjwatson was there too
<imbrandon> iirc
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, was this on the bus?
<imbrandon> anyhow it was quite funny
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: no it was while we were walking to the redneck bar
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, i only went there once... first night
<fabo> imbrandon: what do you think of beryl-dev package ?
<imbrandon> infact thats who it was, me , jono, seele, cjwatson , keybuk , kwwii and riddell
<imbrandon> fabo: i need to talk to giskard there is no orig.tar and the checksum dosent match the ones from the website ( since the .svn stuff was stripped )
<imbrandon> but it looks like he just took the packgagin from beryl's svn ( not good )
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: beryl shipped a tarball with .svn files in it?
<fabo> imbrandon: i don't like beryl-dev like it is right know
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: yes :(
* Burgundavia is not terribly shocked
<elkbuntu> this is not surprising me
* elkbuntu high-five's Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> your tax dollars^WWWshuttleworth dollars at work!
<fabo> imbrandon: i just clean up their build-depends atm
<Hobbsee> it just wanted people to know that it was most certainly still on crack
<imbrandon> yea infact i mentioned it to them at UDS but they still havent fixed it
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, have you followed up on it, or sent henchmen?
<imbrandon> fabo: their changelog needs to be cleaned up also and copyright and a few other things
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, it's not likely to happen unless one of the above occurs
<fabo> imbrandon: i want beryl-dev just depends on libberylsettings-dev and not do a "meta' package
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: hehe i'm not the one crying to get it in the repo :) they know the issues hehe
<fabo> imbrandon: right i didn't checked copyright
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: do you know of any window manager stress testers?
<Burgundavia> I want to dunc-bank compiz and beryl
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, dont be surprised when they cry lack of advice
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: no i wish i did tbh
<fabo> imbrandon: this afternoon i'll do a complete review of beryl ...
<imbrandon> fabo: rockin, thanks
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: no i would like to do the same thing
<imbrandon> i just cant think of an objective way or program to doso
<fabo> imbrandon: you've got some packaging on beryl ? maybe i can take a look and merge your changes too
<Burgundavia> I will ask upstream if they have anything
<imbrandon> fabo: no i threw mine out long ago as it was 0.1 and giskard was picking it up, so i decided to go with his and just fix whats needed
<imbrandon> fabo: http://www.buntudot.org/people/~giskard/
<fabo> imbrandon: ok, so bbl time to work on it ;)
<imbrandon> ^^ thats giskard 's stuff upto now, but its far from ready for the repo
<Burgundavia> wonder if that theme stress tester can used here?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: possibly, i dident know about it
<Burgundavia> manu cornet's one for olpc
<imbrandon> ahh
* imbrandon fires up the sid box
<giskard> imbrandon, ok
<giskard> could you merge the fix?
<imbrandon> giskard: for ?
<imbrandon> giskard: sure, can you put your orig.tar's up there
<imbrandon> and i will make the changes
<giskard> imbrandon, you can use the one shipped on  beryl-project.org
<giskard> you have only to rename them
<imbrandon> you dident strip those ?
<imbrandon> ( or it wasent needed ? )
<giskard> strip?
<imbrandon> remove .svn cruft
<giskard> .svn problem?
<giskard> it's present only in beryl-core
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> good
<giskard> and i've already uploaded the tar.gz on buntudot
<imbrandon> yea i'll make the needed changes then
<imbrandon> yup got that one
<giskard> imbrandon, news?
<giskard> fabo, ?
<imbrandon> giskard: i have them here making changes and building
<imbrandon> i'll probably do the upload in a few hours
<giskard> oki
<giskard> si
<giskard> ops ;)
<fabo> giskard: i'm on beryl-core clean up, rewriting copyright
<fabo> imbrandon: uploading on buntudot ?
<Hobbsee> hey PriceChild
<giskard> fabo, no, i guess in universe
<PriceChild> Hi hobbsee
<PriceChild> :)
<fabo> imbrandon: wait my changes ;)
<giskard> eheh
<PriceChild> Hobbsee!!!!! :)
<PriceChild> ?
<Hobbsee> PriceChild!!!!
<PriceChild> :D
<PriceChild> How was work?
<PriceChild> (I was impressed by myself... got up at 12 :D )
<Hobbsee> tiring, my boss came in
<Hobbsee> heh
<PriceChild> aww :(
<PriceChild> so you weren't in charge?
<Hobbsee> i was
<PriceChild> yay :)
<Hobbsee> she was just questioning what we were doing
<PriceChild> What did you do?
<PriceChild> haha
<PriceChild> what were you doing? ;)
* Hobbsee cant even remember the last time she did a night shift.
<Hobbsee> maybe never
<admin123> I'm exctracting a large tarball that I put into a deb, so I want to display a progressbar. Why? So that the user will not think that the computer froze/program got stuck(not responding). I read debconf-devel but I didn't find anything usefull in there.
<Hobbsee> getting ready to close the store, packing up, as usual.
<PriceChild> k
<PriceChild> I'm tired
<PriceChild> but I got my washing started woo
<PriceChild> bah... soemone on the forums has picked up my msn address and is asking me if i'm a woman... how old am i? etc. etc.
<admin123> lol
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> i *love* those kind of people.  they're the ones the block button was invented for
<PriceChild> I can't block them though :)
<admin123> so you get to push the button?
<PriceChild> I just put them in a special gaim group....
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> hte "ignore' group?
<PriceChild> Its just called "Linux"
<PriceChild> :P
<PriceChild> and its at the bottom and closed
<nolimitsoya> will the latest wine be backported to edgy?
<nolimitsoya> the version in the repos is 0.9.22, and the latest version of winehq.com is 0.9.24
<PriceChild> This guy doesn't even really speak english....
<PriceChild> (not you nolimitsoya)
<nolimitsoya> bugfixes in both updates, including memory leak fixes
<Hobbsee> ah
<Hobbsee> nolimitsoya: unlikely.  it never stays in date anyway
<Hobbsee> !wine
<ubotu> wine is a compatibility layer for running Windows programs on GNU/Linux. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wine for more information.
<nolimitsoya> Hobbsee, how come?
<PriceChild> ping jenda
<PriceChild> wine gets updated every few weeks or so
<PriceChild> it'd be pointless
<PriceChild> If I were you i'd just build it yourself
<nolimitsoya> already done :)
<nolimitsoya> someone just asked for is in #ubuntu, and i thought id take his question here
<Hobbsee> nolimitsoya: what PriceChild said
<gnomefreak> anyone know if pitti's debug repo is for multiverse as well?or is it just main and universe?
<PriceChild> Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> PriceChild
* Hobbsee beds
<PriceChild> lol
<fabo> imbrandon: uploaded
<fabo> giskard: beryl-core updated
<giskard> where?
<bhale> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/muine/+bug/71725
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71725 in muine "Muine is missing icons when run under Kubuntu" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<bhale> can a kubuntu guy advise on this
<bhale> particuarly with the version i just uploaded
<fabo> imbrandon, giskard i switch to b-plugins
<gnomefreak> anyone have any ideas how to get around apt/aptitude/synaptic/adept crashing? i think its caused by a repo and getting rid of the repo doesnt work. reason i say repo is i added the repo ran apt-get update after that anything apt related that i run i get crash
<admin123> How does one find out what debs invoke debconf-apt-progress?
<admin123> would be nice if there was a way to find out
<enyc> gnomefreak: I had that happening but it was a dodgy harddisk infact!
<bluefoxicy> oh great
<bluefoxicy> now Amaya doesn't work on edgy anymore.
<bluefoxicy> (amaya:29871): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_set_colormap: assertion `!GTK_WIDGET_REALIZED (widget)' failed
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<Adri2000> !seen Tonio_
<ubotu> tonio_ is on IRC right now!
<Adri2000> err, right
<Adri2000> but not in the channel
<PriceChild> do a whois on him then Adri2000
<Adri2000> PriceChild: already done, he isn't in any channel, and his ubuntu cloack is not activated, so I don't even know if it's really him :p
<PriceChild> he he ok
<fabo> imbrandon: b-plugins uploaded
<joejaxx> Happy New Years! :D
<b_lindeijer> Am I correct in asserting, that like Ubuntu, the packages in the universe repository are essentially updated only twice a year?
<b_lindeijer> I'm wondering what the chances would be for a online game project that frequently breaks backwards compatibility, to be included. Or how much sense this'd make.
<Adri2000> b_lindeijer: universe is frozen when a release is stable
<Adri2000> but new packages can always be uploaded to the development version
<Adri2000> feisty currently
<Adri2000> b_lindeijer: you can request a package at wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates, but if it's always broken, well, that's not a good idea
<b_lindeijer> Ok. Suppose that the few months old 0.0.20 release of The Mana World would now be frozen in Edgy, this would be totally useless since you can't play it anymore.
<b_lindeijer> So I guess we just wait until we are pretty sure it will remain playable for at least half a year, to request inclusion?
<Adri2000> b_lindeijer: hmm yes, but releases are usually supported 18 months (more for a LTS), so it would be good if the game remains playable more than 6 months
<b_lindeijer> Alright.
<b_lindeijer> We'll keep hosting our own repository for now then.
<fabo> giskard: welcome back :)
<giskard> :)
<admin123> :)
<fabo> imbrandon: ping
<fabo> have you reviewed the packages (url pasted in pv) ?
<chantra> hi, do you guys know how to build packages for other architecture using pbuilder?
<Laser_away> imbrandon has a little experience with that I believe
<chantra> cheers LaserJock
<chantra> imbrandon: ping
<fdoving> who do I subscribe to a sync-with-debian request bugreport?
<fdoving> subscribe/poke
<LaserJock> fdoving: I think you might subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<[A] ndy80> hi
<fdoving> LaserJock: i mean a automatic sync.. not 'have someone upload a manually synced with debian' package.
<LaserJock> well, there kind of isn't a automatic sync
<LaserJock> a MOTU needs to approve the sync and then it goes to the ubuntu-archive team to flip the switch
<[A] ndy80> I created an utility called SmartFan, based on fan utility by toshutils, but smarter: you can pass it a max temperature value as parameter and fan is started only when CPU reaches that temperature and stops after the CPU cools. How can I add the proposal to this list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates ?
<[A] ndy80> could you please explain me how does it work? thanks :)
<LaserJock> [A] ndy80: do you release it as a normal tarball?
<admin123> [A] ndy80, you have to create a account https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserPreferences
<admin123> (if you wish to edit wiki pages)
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: yes... I've the tar.gz ready to be untarred and compiled
<[A] ndy80> admin123: I already have an acocunt I think... Andy80it is my user :)
<admin123> chantra_AW,  --debootstrapopts --arch --debootstrapopts $ARCH
<admin123> [A] ndy80, then click on 'login and edit'. :)
<[A] ndy80> admin123: once I add it to the wiki how can I be informed if the package is accepted into the universal rep?
<LaserJock> [A] ndy80: well, you can watch REVU (revu.tauware.de)
<admin123> Well if I remember correctly(for debian for example) that you can file a bug for pacakages that need to be added tot the repository's perhaps ubuntu has the same thing, I can't tell.
<admin123> I think it follows debian policy guide : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Reviewing#head-8176f0034c811e5d7f154cb568a4a19b4ba021ee
<admin123> so yeah, filing a bug would probally be sufficient
<LaserJock> actually we don't do that normally (we should do something like that)
<admin123> there used to be #debian-mentors
<admin123> if it isn't moved to OFTC
<admin123> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New [A] ndy80
<admin123> would anyone be interested in writing documention for debconf?
<admin123> there is a missing progressbar section
<[A] ndy80> admin123: I added "SmartFan" on the wiki, but I think I made a mistake with the syntax of the wiki... (a missing column) could you please give it a look?
<admin123> fixed
<admin123> [A] ndy80, http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#l1
<LaserJock> admin123: so you are recommending [A] ndy80 request packaging in Debian
<admin123> yes it would eventually end up in ubuntu.
<[A] ndy80> Ok, I'll give it a lool later
<[A] ndy80> thanks for now :)
<joejaxx> after i use a diversion in the preinst i can use the install file to install the packages file correct?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I'm guessing so
<LaserJock> I think divert just moves the existing file aside
<joejaxx> man dpkg-divert is such a hack it is not even funny
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ah ok
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> well, all of packaging is kinda a hack
<LaserJock> :-)
<joejaxx> ;)
<joejaxx> haha
<joejaxx> build-essential.hack
<joejaxx> sudo apt-get install build-essential.hack
<joejaxx> that whould be funny
<joejaxx> LaserJock: when you submit a package to revu it is the source package right?
<joejaxx> i am guessing
<joejaxx> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<joejaxx> bah what is the link lol
<joejaxx> got it
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> nowhere to register
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i whould have to submit my fluxbuntu packages to revu right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> joejaxx: have you used revu before?
<joejaxx> no
<LaserJock> are you a member of ubuntu-universe-contributors on LP?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes
<joejaxx> how have you all been gnomefreak Fujitsu ?
<Fujitsu> Not too bad, joejaxx.
<gnomefreak> joejaxx: ok here and yourself?
<joejaxx> that is good
* Fujitsu had forgotten how much easier Ubuntu made everything.
<joejaxx> i am doing well
<joejaxx> actually i have another question
<joejaxx> does ubuntu keep all its artwork in /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork
<gnomefreak> i think so
<gnomefreak> /usr/share/*
<joejaxx> ok
<gnomefreak> i havetn looked in a while
<joejaxx> i am trying to think about how i want to go about the fluxbuntu-artwork package
<joejaxx> right now the wallpapers are copied to /usr/share/backgrounds
<joejaxx> but i am wondering about the firefox homepage and login logos
<gnomefreak> i have usr/share/backgrounds
<gnomefreak> there a share/gdm/themes
<joejaxx> yeah but we do not use gdm
<joejaxx> it is wdm
<joejaxx> wdm calls its original logo from /usr/share/pixmaps
<gnomefreak> thats all i see other than ubuntu-artwork
<joejaxx> oh alright
<LaserJock> geeze, DistroWatch Weekly News comments are about as bad as the forums
<LaserJock> joejaxx: Fluxbuntu is getting a lot of good reviews there though :-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :)
<joejaxx> To bad the Linux Distros on the PS3 weren't told about and is the cell processor the same as the powerpc.
<joejaxx> </quote> lol
<joejaxx> too bad he has not looked into more
<joejaxx> because you cannot stick a powerpc linux distro in the ps3 without modifying it
<LaserJock> man, more derivatives
<LaserJock> Ubuntun Multimedia Center
<joejaxx> well that is not even a derivative lol
<joejaxx> if you look at it
<LaserJock> can't their site is down
<LaserJock> too much traffix
<LaserJock> *traffic
<LaserJock> we'll they've been added to distrowatch, that's all anybody will care about
<joejaxx> yeah true
<joejaxx> right now i am converting the edgy seeds to feisty
<joejaxx> i have to look at the feisty release cycle
<joejaxx> and see when the first hord disc is
<joejaxx> i will probably build a livecd for each on of those hord releases
<joejaxx> dates*
<LaserJock> the 30th I believe is the target date for the first 1
<joejaxx> oh shoot
<joejaxx> of november?
<LaserJock> yep
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> so i have 4 days
<joejaxx> well actually i cannot even do that
<joejaxx> because fluxbuntu will not be in universe by then
<joejaxx> so the deb lines whould be all wrong
<joejaxx> when hord 2 comes out
<joejaxx> bah
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-26
<Fujitsu> Isn't it Herd, not Hord?
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> Herd then
<joejaxx> hello lophyte
<joejaxx> :)
<Fujitsu> Hm, LP really doesn't render well in elinks.
<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, the whole ajax thing would pretty much screw you over too, i would think
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu: There's no AJAX in LP, AFAIK...
<joejaxx> what is the standards and debhelper build depend for feisty?
<joejaxx> 3.7.2.2 and 5.0.0?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Turn off columns/tables
<TheMuso> I have no problem with it like that
<joejaxx> anyone know?
<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, fine then, whatever is the funky stuff that changes stuff without changing url
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I'd keep it simple and go with 3.7.2 and 5.0
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: LP uses plone I think
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: you a kde'er?
* Fujitsu is a nothinger at the moment.
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, nto really, but i have a kde feisty on my laptop
<Fujitsu> Console forever!
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, is there a reason you ask?
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: oh, I like to know who I can run to when I get in the KDE mood
<LaserJock> ;-)
<elkbuntu> ha
<joejaxx> well the update is going
<joejaxx> ? Unknown desktop package: mkisofs
<joejaxx> ? Unknown desktop package: cdrecord
<joejaxx> these are not in feisty?
<LaserJock> let me see
<LaserJock> I remember that coming up
<[A] ndy80> admin123: ok, I'm reading the document you told me before: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#l1 but I can't understand.... do I have to use the reportbug tool to request a package to be included in debian?
<LaserJock> [A] ndy80: you don't have to but it is handy
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: are there other ways to request a package to be included in debian?
<LaserJock> by email
<erik1397> Does anyone know whether the program Tovid will be in the feisty repos?
<LaserJock> erik1397: I take it it isn't in feisty currently?
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: ok, I'll try to use it but I think it's a bit complcated :)
<LaserJock> [A] ndy80: yep
<joejaxx> LaserJock: cdrecord and mkisofs are on the ubuntu feisty seeds
<joejaxx> hmm
<LaserJock> erik1397: I see a tovid package is on REVU
<erik1397> LaserJock: nope
<LaserJock> erik1397: so it looks like it is being worked on
<erik1397> LaserJock: where?
<erik1397> o awesome
<LaserJock> erik1397: revu.tauware.de
<erik1397> awesome
<erik1397> do you think it'll be in feisty though?  or do you think that it wont make it until feisty+1?
<LaserJock> we're still pretty early in feisty
<LaserJock> and it looks like jdong is doing it
<ogra> extremely early
<LaserJock> so I would imagine it should be in Feisty no problem
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i wonder why it is doing that
<LaserJock> ogra: you're alive!
<joejaxx> skipping cdrecord and mkisofs
<joejaxx> ogra: hello
<erik1397> LaserJock: thanks for the good news
<LaserJock> ogra: after reading your blog post I wondered if Poland had swallowed you
<ogra> LaserJock, sure, i'll fly out on monday morning... if i'm alive afetr returning you can congratulate ;)
<erik1397> you see, my most popular how-to in the ubuntu forums concerns that program, but installation for it is kinda tricky
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: the output of reportbug is quite different from the output described in the document... for example it asks me the versione of the package, the problem with the package ecc...
<LaserJock> ogra: haha, will do
<[A] ndy80> like it was a real bug report
<ogra> LaserJock, actually it's really nice here, we should have a conf here
<erik1397> so having it in the repos would be awesome
<[A] ndy80> there's no problem with the package, I just want to submit it :)
<ogra> (apart from the fact that everything is made from pork)
<erik1397> i guess i should just contact jdong for details, right?
<LaserJock> [A] ndy80: did you pick wnpp for the package?
<ogra> (whats not pork is imported )
<LaserJock> ogra: well, get Canonical to send me and I'll go ;-)
<LaserJock> erik1397: yeah
<erik1397> k
<ogra> hehe, i'll work on it ... the wimen are *extrmely* beautiful, the beer is good, prices are very cheap, you just cant get a steak anywhere ...
<joejaxx> lol steak
<ogra> joejaxx, dont laugh ... after having pork for a week in *everything* you will understand :)
<joejaxx> ogra: :)
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: what is wnpp?
<joejaxx> ogra: i whould how far poland is from the usa
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: I just did reportbug --email username@domain.tld wnpp
<[A] ndy80> like the document say to do
* joejaxx tries to calculate
<ogra> its still on CET ... (on the edge)
<ogra> err CEST
<LaserJock> [A] ndy80: ok, and what did it ask you?
<joejaxx> ogra: We could not calculate driving directions between New Jersey, USA and Poland. </quote> haha
<ogra> haha
<ogra> you couldnt calculate polish trasport either ;)
<joejaxx> ;)
<ogra> *transport
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: Please enter the version of the package this report applies to (blank OK)
<[A] ndy80> then...
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: Please briefly describe your problem (you can elaborate in a moment; an empty response will stop reportbug). This should be a concise summary of what is
<[A] ndy80> wrong with the package, ecc....
<LaserJock> [A] ndy80: look at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=397254 for an example of what to put
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 397254 in wnpp "RFP: 3gpwiz -- Convert almost any movie type to a format (3gp/mp4) for mobile phones" [Wishlist,Open] 
<joejaxx> can anyone create an event at OpenWeek?
<LaserJock> no
<ogra> joejaxx, you should contact jono if you want to do anything
<joejaxx> ok that is what i thought
<LaserJock> you should talk to Jono if you want something
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> i do not think my subject whould benefit anyone anyway haha
<joejaxx> oh well
<joejaxx> back to packaging
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: mmm.... understanding how this utility works is harder than writing the entire application :(
<zul> when is openweek again im too lazy to read the wiki right now
<LaserJock> [A] ndy80: what's it doing now?
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: I'll try to publish somewhere my utility... then... if someone want to include it in debian/ubuntu, will have all my greetings ;)
<LaserJock> zul: starts Monday
<[A] ndy80> ah...
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: it opened me a texteditor... but I don't know what to write inside.... packagename is set to wnpp
<[A] ndy80> but it should contain my package name (smartfan)
<[A] ndy80> then.. it told me that description was too long and I didn't specify the url where to find the package!
<[A] ndy80> absurd....
<[A] ndy80> I think they should have at least a web based submit tool
<[A] ndy80> easier to use
<[A] ndy80> else is a big waste of time
<LaserJock> [A] ndy80: this is debian we are talking about. They do everything via email
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: this explain me a lot of things ;)
<[A] ndy80> LaserJock: isn't possible to include a package in ubuntu that is not included in debian?
<LaserJock> [A] ndy80: yes it is
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock, how's it going?
<LaserJock> bddebian: it's going
<LaserJock> I actually got some code committed on an upstream
<bddebian> Nice
<LaserJock> I'm pretty happy about that
<LaserJock> it should be included in a release this weekend
<bddebian> Very cool.  What package?
<_MMA_> LaserJock: ChemTools?
<LaserJock> gchemutils
<bddebian> Ah cool
<LaserJock> I got to learn a little C++ and Glade
<bddebian> Ugh, C++ scares me :-)
<LaserJock> helped fix some bugs to do what I wanted
<LaserJock> I feel kinda productive ;-)
<bddebian> Heh, I wish I did
<LaserJock> well, I won't let it go to my head ;-)
<DarkMageZ> anyone know of a guide to learning c or c++ for those who get bored quickly?
<LaserJock> DarkMageZ: find some C or C++ program you like and start coding?
<DarkMageZ> yeah, but without understanding the code in the slightest first... that doesn't work
<LaserJock> so then you go and learn what you need
<LaserJock> do you know any other programing languages?
<DarkMageZ> LaserJock, i knew alittle vb6
<zul> ew evil
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> well i just ported fluxbuntu-meta to feisty
<joejaxx> even though feisty is doing some weird things repository wise
<zul> vb6 is not exactly a programming language ;)
<joejaxx> like not recognizing cdrecord and mkisofs
<joejaxx> now i need to port the artwork package
<joejaxx> and finish the settings package
<LaserJock> DarkMageZ: well, then read through a quick C/C++ tutorial first :-)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: excellent
<gnomefreak> is ther an edgy-updates universe multiverse repo or just the main restricted
<gnomefreak> joejaxx: thank you :)
<joejaxx> gnomefreak: what did i do? lol
<gnomefreak> fluxbuntu-meta
<gnomefreak> ive been wanting that so bad
<joejaxx> ah
<joejaxx> you are most welcome
<joejaxx> :)
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: sure -updates, etc. are for all components
<LaserJock> we have -proposed and -security too
<gnomefreak> that maybe the issue thank you i will get him to see if it fixs it
<gnomefreak> im thinking -proposed doesnt have ff updates in it
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: what are you talking about?
<gnomefreak> ff 2 keep crashing and im hoping its just an update issue
<LaserJock> do you have flash 9?
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: ive had a usr that has had issues with ff on edgy
<LaserJock> I know linux mint had bad problems with FF crashing all the time
<gnomefreak> he doesnt have flash at all i gave him flash 9 to replace his flash 7 and helped but still ended up core dumping
<LaserJock> hmm
<gnomefreak> spent over 5 hours on the user in the last couple of days
<LaserJock> is there a bug report?
<gnomefreak> it started as an automatix issue but still there after reinstalling
<gnomefreak> not yet
<gnomefreak> i want to be sure its not hd related first
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> why is ubuntu-artwork listed under gnome
<gnomefreak> because it is gnome
<gnomefreak> kubuntu-artwork and xubuntu-artwork
<joejaxx> sudo apt-cache show kubuntu-artwork
<joejaxx> W: Unable to locate package kubuntu-artwork
<joejaxx> E: No packages found
<joejaxx> hmm
<LaserJock> they don't have an artwork packages
<LaserJock> should be just kubuntu-default-settings
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> hmm
<LaserJock> I think they plan on splitting it out at some point, but I'm not postive about that
<joejaxx> bah lol what am i supposed to label this under
<joejaxx> fluxbuntu-artwork
<LaserJock> whatever you want
<LaserJock> you're the dev
<joejaxx> even labels theirs under the wm/de
<joejaxx> for the Section
<gnomefreak> oh sorry
<LaserJock> x11
<LaserJock> that's where fluxbox is
<LaserJock> is fluxbuntu going there?
<joejaxx> fluxbuntu-meta's section is base
<joejaxx> i do not know if that is wrong or not
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> joejaxx: the definition of base on package.u.c is "Basic needed utilities of every Debian system"
<joejaxx> ok yeap that is definitely wrong
<LaserJock> and as much as you want to promot fluxbuntu, I doubt that you can claim it should be on *every* Debian system ;-)
<LaserJock> *promote
<joejaxx> well actually i was following this
<joejaxx> Source: ubuntu-meta
<joejaxx> Section: base
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> maybe Ubuntu was a little optimistic
<joejaxx> i wonder what i should change it too
<LaserJock> xubuntu-meta is in misc
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> that is the section i had fluxbuntu-artwork in
<joejaxx> i will leave it
<joejaxx> as misc
<joejaxx> and change the other one to misc as well
<LaserJock> -doc should be in text (if you ever make one)
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> should the settings one be misc as well?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> xubuntu-artwork is in x11
<LaserJock> who knows
<joejaxx> just build fluxbuntu-artwork
<joejaxx> i have to rebuild meta though
<joejaxx> ok rebuilt that one
<joejaxx> now to the divert nonsense haha
<joejaxx> this should be interesting
<joejaxx> anyone have an example of a simple preinst file?
<joejaxx> nevermind i can reference the one from fluxbox i forgot about that one
<joejaxx> how does the fluxbox package get away with not having a install file
<imbrandon> depends on the packaging , if the makefile puts the files in all the correect places then there really isnt a need for it with say cdbs
<imbrandon> moins all
<joejaxx> hello
<joejaxx> imbrandon: figured out diversions
<joejaxx> but
<joejaxx> i need to know the exact place where fluxbox installs stuff
<imbrandon> what are you making diversions in fluxbox for ?
<joejaxx> no in fluxbox
<joejaxx> not*
<joejaxx> in the fluxbuntu-default-settings package
<imbrandon> ok umm , still a bit puzzled why you would need deversions
<joejaxx> because i have configuration files for fluxbox wdm and rox
<imbrandon> have you looked at say kubuntu-default-settings
* joejaxx apt-get source's
<joejaxx> wow 10mb?
<imbrandon> there abouts yea
<imbrandon> but we dont use deversions at all
<imbrandon> if anything we use alternatives for a few thins ( like the uspash artwork )
<imbrandon> brb food time
<imbrandon> fabo: ping
<Hobbsee> hey all
<joejaxx> hello
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: fixed all of kde yet?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: hehe no just uploaded kdepim and working on beryl crack right now
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i think kdepim had another bug.
<imbrandon> gonna try to get that finished up here in the next few
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: https://launchpad.net/bugs/73288
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73288 in kubuntu-meta "News issue" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<imbrandon> NOW you mention it AFTER i upload it hehehe
<imbrandon> just teasin
<imbrandon> i'll look after this
<imbrandon> i wanna finish this beryl crack so people stop asking me about it
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: apologies for going to work :P
<imbrandon> ( they are still gonna be mad when they see how i have it versioned )
<Hobbsee> how'd you do it?
<Hobbsee> 0.0.0crack-0ubuntu1?
<imbrandon> the correct way, but that happens to conflict with anyone that has the beryl repo in their sources.list
<Hobbsee> that's a feature
<imbrandon> sooo i'll have to poke the beryl guys later and tell them , because anyone that whine's i'm sending them their way,i told them not to do it at UDS but nooooo :)
<Hobbsee> well, you dont want the beryl repo stuff trying to work with yours anyway
<imbrandon> true, but its still gonna cause the ricers headaches
<Hobbsee> they'll deal.  that's why they're ricers
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> anyway i have everything but emerald fixed up, once i finish that ( building now to tet ) i'm gonna upload it
<imbrandon> and de-virginize the repo's
<imbrandon> oh the agony of the feisty repos will have when the archive admin goes threw the NEW queue
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> repo pr0n? i have seen it all now
<Hobbsee> nice :)
<Hobbsee> hah
<joejaxx> Goodnight MOTU
<ajmitch> night
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello
<imbrandon> wanan test some crack in a few ?
<ajmitch> of what?
<imbrandon> beryl crack
<ajmitch> I guess
<ajmitch> might as well see if my desktop can handle the madness
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i'm trying to fix a circle dep error right now then i /think/ they will be atleaste ready to upload
<imbrandon> to the repo's , they will need some love over the next months but not /as/ crackfull as i thought
<imbrandon> heya robitaille and Burgundavia
<ajmitch> so how many people are working on beryl packages now? 4?
<Burgundavia> hey imbrandon and robitaille
<ajmitch> hello Burgundavia
<imbrandon> ajmitch: 3 and we all combined the effort
<imbrandon> s
<robitaille> Hi Burgundavia  imbrandon
<ajmitch> you & who else?
<imbrandon> me and giskard and fabio
<Burgundavia> it is bloody sad how many of you this is taking
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: its REALLY crackfull
<imbrandon> we have each caught coutless errors
<ajmitch> imbrandon: fabio?
<imbrandon> and i'm sure there will be more in the first month or so
<imbrandon> s/i//
<imbrandon> ajmitch: typo
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: it is excellent software! ;)
<Burgundavia> so excellent we are going to install it by default
<Burgundavia> lovely
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> now drink up, you'll need it
<imbrandon> heh and have binary drivers :) /me ducks
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: this is one area i 100% agree with you on , we dont always see eye to eye on stuff but i think this one is kinda universal
<imbrandon> just sad more dont see that
<Burgundavia> some don't realize what is supportable and what is not
<Burgundavia> ok, the forums depress me
* ajmitch is happy that people working on free nvidia drivers have got things drawing on the screen 
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: you serious? rock
<imbrandon> ajmitch: kick ass
<ajmitch> yeah, I've just done my read of the forums & got thoroughly demotivated :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: early days yet, though
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yea but thats still good
<plugwash> i presume by drawing things you mean drawing things using the cards 3D features?
<Burgundavia> the people in the Feisty forum are posting all kinds of crackish ideas, which is ok
<Burgundavia> but then they all self reinforce each others bad ideas
<Burgundavia> which is not
* plugwash was under the impression that there was already a free 2D driver for nvidia cards
<imbrandon> my main main thing is that nv and ati say they cant opensource the drivers even if they wanted to, BUT why dont they atleaste provide spec's
<imbrandon> plugwash: their is
<imbrandon> nv
<Burgundavia> plugwash: it is written by nvidia and is quite unreadable
<ajmitch> plugwash: yes, the 2d driver is fairly crap & obfuscated
<ajmitch> I'm talking about things drawing with glxgears
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: are you talking 3d stuff?
<ajmitch> 11:22 < darktama> hmm, glxgears *is* being rendered.. just very very very small :)  you can just see tiny moving red, green and blue bits if you rotate the gears a bit
<ajmitch> yes, I am
<imbrandon> heheh nice
* ajmitch has learnt a lot more about nvidia cards by being involved on the edge of the project
<Burgundavia> now is Mark wanted to use some of his money to solve this issue, that would rock
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: yea
<Burgundavia> imagine if Canonical had one wireless and one graphics card driver on staff
<Burgundavia> not a huge burden, but it would go a long way
<ajmitch> I don't know how much it would help
<Burgundavia> if you cycled people out on contact, it probably would
<imbrandon> ok ajmitch last package just finished building and i'm copying to a temp webserver for you to grab, i installed and ran them ok, if you say they atleaste install i'll upload them , there is still a few things i would like to clean up but i'll do that on secondary uploads and such, atleaste the crack is mostly cleaned out now
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: ?
<imbrandon> wow
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: if you hired an nvidia hacker for a bit, until they reached a certain level, etc
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: the problem is attracting the rare people who have the time, abilty & know-how
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: understandable
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
(fabo/#ubuntu-motu) where's aquamarine :D not finished yet !!!
(Amaranth/#ubuntu-motu) fabo: It hasn't actually been released
(fabo/#ubuntu-motu) i know it's just a joke ;)
<fabo> and yes you can backport them as is
<ajmitch> hi Yagisan 
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch 
<Yagisan> need to re-install my edgy boxes soon
<ajmitch> but edgy is stable & wonderful
<Yagisan> ajmitch, wonderful - yeah - but need to - er - repartition my raid array
<ajmitch> & why does that require a reinstall?
<pirast> i have a question, i patched a package in universe some time ago, what is the best practice in order to enable it to appear in a new version?
<pirast> asking for a sync again and patching it after upstream version freeze again?
<ajmitch> or you merge it now
<ajmitch> rather than leaving it unpatched
<ogra> is it on merges.ubuntu.com ?
<ogra> mom might have done the work for you already ;)
<pirast> that sounds nice :-)
<pirast> i will have a look
<pirast> nope :-( does not seem so
<ogra> what is it ?
<pirast> dvdrip
<ajmitch> ah, that was not originally from debian, was it?
<fdoving> who do i poke to make a schedutils sync with debian? (automatic that is). 
<pirast> nope, debian-multimedia :-(
<Fujitsu> fdoving: If it has no Ubuntu changes, it'll be synced within a couple of days.
<ajmitch> fdoving: since it's modified in ubuntu, someone needs to merge any changes
<ajmitch> or I see that you made the last changes..
<Fujitsu> We seem to have a new upstream version in Ubuntu...
<ajmitch> so file a sync request on malone, details are on the DeveloperResources wiki page
<fdoving> ajmitch: can the ubuntu changes silently die? - the debian package is way better.
<ajmitch> then subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<ajmitch> if they're really not needed, and the orig.tar.gz is the same, then yes
<ajmitch> make sure you mention that in the bug you file
<fdoving> I already have a bugreport, i'll subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<pirast> other example is pgadmin3, which is in ubuntu
<pirast> and was synced from debian
<pirast> btw, do we already know if thunderbird will be renamed in ubuntu? because if not, it will shoot some plugin packages in universe..
<Fujitsu> pirast: It is unlikely that it will be renamed here as well...
<Fujitsu> This will increase delta with Debian, but we'll have to live with that.
<pirast> :-( that's bad.. I fixed enigmail-locales in Edgy.. and it was hard work (renaming and replacing with sed)
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder if there are gonna be any archive admins on today ( to process the NEW queue )
<ajmitch> unlikely
<ajmitch> given that they're all in UK/Europe, and it's sunday
<imbrandon> yea
* imbrandon sulks
<imbrandon> i wanted to try it on my lappy but really dident want to compile it again
<imbrandon> but i guess i will
<ajmitch> beryl?
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> but you had i386 packages?
<imbrandon> lappy is ppc
<ajmitch> ah yes
<ajmitch> one of those
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> do I care enough to install beryl stuff on the laptop again?
<imbrandon> dosent seem TOO bad on my desktop
<ajmitch> runs mostly fine on the desktop, except for a few nasty bugs
<imbrandon> yea i have a few "what window should be on top" annoyances
<imbrandon> that seems to be the main things
<imbrandon> and alt tab seems iffy at best
<ajmitch> I've gone back to metacity already
<imbrandon> but over all its not near as bad as i thought
<fdoving> .. and beryl doesn't work well with two monitors :] 
<ajmitch> fdoving: which is what I have
<fdoving> me too.
<imbrandon> i wont till next month :(
<pirast> i have another question: when an archive admin syncs a package from a debian-like repository, will it be autosynced then?
* imbrandon is buying a new system next month , yay
<fdoving> might work for you, but for me and the open ati drivers, it didn't work well.
<Amaranth> iirc all problems with that are now in the plugins and most of them have been fixed
<ajmitch> pirast: I don't think so
<Amaranth> but only in SVN, of course
<pirast> ajmitch, thanks
<Amaranth> as of about 3 days ago, i think
<Amaranth> (multihead)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: since your little amd64 just isn't good enough...
<imbrandon> fdoving: thats what my lappy uses , the open ati drivers
<fdoving> imbrandon: we have the same :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe i'm gonna buy a 4 core ( 2x dual core ) amd i think 
<fdoving> works OK without extra monitor.
<Amaranth> last time i tried compiz on ppc with the ati driver it all blew up
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, we all hate you, that's ok
<Amaranth> of course that was right after dapper came out
<Amaranth> problems with the driver, i guess
<imbrandon> Amaranth: what xorg magic do i have to do to my lappy to get bery to run
<imbrandon> beryl
<imbrandon> opensource ati
<imbrandon> ( no i'm not loading the binary driver )
<Amaranth> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BerylOnEdgy
<imbrandon> bah
<imbrandon> :)
<Amaranth> and the binary driver doesn't even work on ppc, does it?
<imbrandon> dunno
<imbrandon> 'never tried it
* ajmitch would rather use a free driver anyway
* imbrandon goes to dig out the laptop
<imbrandon> ajmitch: me too
<Amaranth> me too
* Amaranth wishes for nouveau
<ajmitch> yeah
* ajmitch recompiles nouveau again
<Amaranth> btw, did you know the only real maintainer of the nv driver is an nvidia employee who works on their linux driver?
* ajmitch needs dual-head though
<ajmitch> yes, I know that
<Amaranth> it's annoying
<ajmitch> and that he won't accept patches for features
<ajmitch> the nouveau driver is already better for 2d
<Amaranth> of course he won't, that'd make the binary driver less useful :P
* Amaranth might have to try it
<Fujitsu> Nouveau actually works?
<Fujitsu> I thought it was still very unworking...
<Amaranth> the day it gets good enough to run beryl without crashing for at least 12 hours is the day i start using it full time
<ajmitch> it's rather useless for 3d
<Amaranth> i suspect i have at least 6 months to wait
<ajmitch> but the ddx component is based off the nv driver, with some deobfuscation
<ajmitch> the 2d driver does require you use the drm module, which can't be loaded at the same time as the binary nvidia module
<Amaranth> they both want to own the same device, would that ever work?
<ajmitch> it'd be nice if you could have 2 cards & have the modules own 1 each :)
<Amaranth> and i want a pony
<imbrandon> no pony for you
* ajmitch wonders if it's possible to get an nvidia pcie card that's not 16x
<ajmitch> maybe I should just do an imbrandon & get a whole new box ;)
<ajmitch> get one of those geforce 8800 GTX cards
* Fujitsu wishes Intel would make non-integrated graphics cards.
* ajmitch has heard rumours that they will
<ajmitch> they used to - I've got an old i740 agp card
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe i figured that i got a new job i deserved a new computer ( but i still have to wait till next month )
<DarkMageZ> there's no point in them doing it. only a very very small handful of people want them to
<ajmitch> imbrandon: what quad-core cpu will you get?
<giskard> morning
<ajmitch> or just a dual-cpu, dual-core?
<ajmitch> hi giskard 
<giskard> hello ajmitch 
<imbrandon> giskard: all packages uploaded , with your mine and fabo's changes, its in the NEW queue and likely wont hit the archive untill monday afternoon when a archive admin can approve it
<giskard> imbrandon, cool!
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i was thinking about getting dual amdx2 ( totaly 4 core, 2x dual core )
<imbrandon> not sure, yea i just know i want to get the best ootb amd system i can for about 2k next month 
<imbrandon> still looking and pricing stuff
<imbrandon> any hints/tips ?
<ajmitch> problem with quad-core is that for any single task, it's limited to the speed of 1 core, so you need to do more in parallel
* ajmitch has no hints/tips, apart from it being a real good idea to do RAID
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> hardware raid
<ajmitch> man, these people talking about the nouveau driver, do they know how far it has to go?
<ajmitch> not hardware RAID, unless you get a real expensive chipset
<jsgotangco> hehehe
<ajmitch> most consumer hardware RAID stuff sucks
<jsgotangco> we lurve crack
<imbrandon> ahh
<ajmitch> proprietary on-disk formats, buggy firmware, you name it
<ajmitch> with quad-core, you have more than enough power to handle software RAID
<Amaranth> is +t set here?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: no
* ajmitch does raid 5 with no problems on this slow old dual-core box :)
<StevenK> "slow old dual-core" hah
<imbrandon> :)
* StevenK notes he doesn't trust software raid 5.
<imbrandon> i would only do striping anyhow, and then backups
<StevenK> My /home is on RAID 1.
<StevenK> Well, shared network /home.
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i tried that but i need a faster network
<imbrandon> to make it worth it
<StevenK> 100Mbit is too slow?
<imbrandon> my lappys wireless is only b
<imbrandon> so kinda sucks
<StevenK> Ah.
<imbrandon> nah for the wired its ok
<StevenK> Don't do NFS over 11b. :-P
<ajmitch> StevenK: why don't you trust software raid 5?
<imbrandon> GAH , i killed X on my lappy
<Amaranth> wait, shared network /home on a laptop?
<imbrandon> Amaranth: sure, then you also have a local login for when your away from home
<StevenK> ajmitch: I've lost over 30Gb of data to it, in 3 seperate situations, and it's hard to recover from, as opposed to RAID 1.
<Amaranth> imbrandon: sounds annoying
* ajmitch notes that /usr/local is on RAID 0 for maximum speed & minimum safety
<ajmitch> StevenK: impressive
<ajmitch> StevenK: I've heard too many hardware raid horror stories as well :)
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> I treat the MegaRAID cards at work a little carefully, but they're *expensive*.
<ajmitch> all my compiling & stuff like that is on the 450GB RAID 0
<ajmitch> yeah, I can't quite afford one of those
<ajmitch> hence why I was saying that consumer hardware raid generally sucks :)
* StevenK nods.
<ajmitch> since it's often semi-software raid
<StevenK> They're kinda nice, and kind of scary. :-)
<ajmitch> hm, midnight, probably about bed time
<ajmitch> work at 8:30 :)
<Amaranth> 5:00 here
<Amaranth> sunday, of course
<imbrandon> hahah looks like no beryl on my lappy for now http://federation.imbrandon.com/x-on-lappy.jpg
<StevenK> Could your camera take a picture that's more blurry?
<imbrandon> does that qualify as a BSOD ? 
<imbrandon> StevenK: haha we've been through this, it sucks
<StevenK> Oh yeah, we have.
<Amaranth> imbrandon: what'd you do?
<Amaranth> and yeah, that's a BSOD for a regular user :)
<imbrandon> added composite and some other things to xorg
<Amaranth> composite is on by default
<Amaranth> and i don't think the other crackful options in that guide are needed
<Amaranth> afaik it "just works" by installing beryl and running it
<imbrandon> NOW you tell me, i asked what i needed
<imbrandon> :)
<Amaranth> i was going for what i thought was the safe answer :)
<imbrandon> there is a reason i havent applied for the X maintainer at canonical :) I hate xorg.conf ( and X in general but there isnt anything better )
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> Amaranth: thanks for the nouveau followup on the list ;)
<Amaranth> imbrandon: I know some of those xorg.conf options are supposed to give something like 3x speed boosts for beryl
<Amaranth> but i only have nvidia hardware so i can't confirm
* ajmitch only has nvidia & intel
<ajmitch> & my intel-based laptop is nothing special
* StevenK has only Intel at the moment/
<ajmitch> though neither is the nvidia card
<StevenK> s/\//./
<StevenK> I wanted to get a Nvidia PCI-E card with my tax refund, but that didn't work out.
<imbrandon> i have intel in the computer i use all the time, and ati in the lappy and nvida in the amd64
<imbrandon> but i never use the amd64 in gui mode
<ajmitch> why not?
<imbrandon> it has a crappy monitor, and i just generaly hate that computer
<imbrandon> so i use it via ssh to build on
<StevenK> imbrandon: I'm typing this on an Edgy amd64 machine.
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i'm typing on a feisty x86 :)
<StevenK> I'm sticking to running feisty in chroots.
<Hobbsee> wuss!  :P
* Amaranth is running feisty as his main install on his only computer
* ajmitch is sticking to running feisty everywhere, no more edgy
<Amaranth> hell, it's my only install
* Fujitsu was running Feisty on his primary machine until about 24 hours ago.
<ajmitch> I figure that if I don't see the breakage, I won't have the incentive to fix it
<Amaranth> ajmitch: I just watch the forums to look for people complaining
<Amaranth> If someone says "You idiots broke my computer again, learn how to program" I don't upgrade that day
<StevenK> finalbeta: And then you forcibly downgraded?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: YOu mean me?
<StevenK> Er, yeah.
<Fujitsu> Nope, I installed sid.
<Fujitsu> Well, Etch, then upgraded.
<StevenK> And that's an improvement?
<Fujitsu> I hadn't installed Debian in quite some time, I figured it was time for a change.
<imbrandon> as long as it wasent SuSE /me ducks
<jsgotangco> Fujitsu: +1 :)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: but you cant run the beryl crack now :) just teasin
* Fujitsu attacks imbrandon.
<Amaranth> actually i think sid has packages
<Amaranth> or will soon
<imbrandon> yea the ones i just uploaded :)
<imbrandon> giskard will upload them to sid in a few days :)
<Amaranth> ah
* Fujitsu screams.
<imbrandon> once some more of the bugs are fixed
<Amaranth> i thought the XSF owned beryl
<imbrandon> XSF ?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: afaik, they do
<minghua> there is compiz, not sure if it's owned by XSF though
<ajmitch> imbrandon: X strike force, maintainers of X in debian
<minghua> imbrandon: X Strike Force
<imbrandon> ah
<ajmitch> so giskard may get in trouble if he uploads while ignoring an ITP
<Amaranth> and they, uh, hate cdbs
<ajmitch> I don't blame them
<giskard> imbrandon, beryl will not go in unstable until etch is released..
<imbrandon> good
<Amaranth> one line make files backed by magic scripts, what's not to like? :)
* Amaranth would still rather use it then jump through hoops with debhelper
<minghua> if you can reduce the X packages' rules file to one line, sure
<minghua> ;-)
<rgl> hi
<fabo> giskard: beryl can go in experimental, when shwan will decide to cooperate ...
<fabo> shawn
<imbrandon> gah it ftbfs on ppc too
<giskard> imbrandon, amen ;) 
* imbrandon wonders why its looking for /usr/include/asm-i386/*.h
<imbrandon> on ppc
<StevenK> Because it's build system doesn't know any better.
<giskard> willubuntu support beryl?
<imbrandon> yea , ajmitch already found that out on amd64
<imbrandon> bah , i'm tired of messing with it for tonight
* imbrandon goes to fix something in kde
<StevenK> imbrandon: What, "everything" ? :-P
<apokryphos> giskard: presumably that hasn't been decided yet. Beryl or compiz.
<giskard> ?
<apokryphos> I think we're waiting till the TB decides, right?
<giskard> apokryphos, ahhhhh stupid me, what i wanted ask is: will ubuntu support ppc?
<imbrandon> they said at feature freeze time what ever one is "less buggy"
<apokryphos> I think that hasn't been decided yet too :P
<imbrandon> giskard: yes
<imbrandon> for now
<apokryphos> imbrandon: really?
<StevenK> I suspect PPC will be revisited for feisty+1
<apokryphos> if they're leaning that way I'd imagine it'd end up being compiz
<StevenK> (Dear me, it sounds so strange saying that already.)
<imbrandon> StevenK: hehe
<Hobbsee> heh
<imbrandon> mostly because IBM is getting ready to push power cell workstations afaik , but i'm not 100%
<StevenK> Apple may have dropped PPC, but the rest of the world hasn't let go yet.
<imbrandon> yup
<DarkMageZ> doesn't the xbox360 run ppc?
<imbrandon> yea , so does the wii and the ps3
<imbrandon> all 3 run power arch
<Simon80> the diff is how many, lol
<DarkMageZ> i can't wait to run osx on my new xbox 360 :)
<imbrandon> your more likely to run linux than osx :) 
<imbrandon> osx wont have the drivers for the hardware 
<imbrandon> ( e.g. no sata support )
<StevenK> Bullshit. OS X supports SATA.
<Simon80> yes, but specific SATA controller for that board?
<StevenK> They just only have drivers for like 2 chipsets.
<imbrandon> StevenK: it was an example, it dident for a long time
<Simon80> lol
<imbrandon> i know i just loaded osx on my amd64 a few days ago with sata :)
<imbrandon> but thats not the point :P
* imbrandon wonders if beryl will run on osx's X11 /me ducks
<DarkMageZ> hackers have added drivers to osx86. maybe oneday someone will hackup ppc to run on xbox360
<imbrandon> ( i know it wont )
<DarkMageZ> i'd love to have the cube & wobble on osx
<minghua> don't you already have the cube on OS X (I don't know exactly how cube looks on compiz/beryl though)
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> their isnt even any kinda of multi desktops in osx
<imbrandon> let alone a cube :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: That'll be in .5
<minghua> well, I was talking about "switch user" on OS X
<imbrandon> minghua: that dosent compare heh, i can switch user on kde/gnome witout accerated X ( windows too )
<imbrandon> StevenK: yea i have read that
<minghua> imbrandon: but OS X uses a "cube effect" for switching user, doesn't it?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> it does it exactly the same as windows/kde ( not sure how gnome does it )
<minghua> okay, then I probably don't know what "cube" in compiz/beryl is
<imbrandon> you get a nice gdm/kdm looking screen , etc
<imbrandon> cube is ...... hold on
<minghua> I am talking about http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/fastuserswitching/
<bhale> Mac OS X Tiger animates transitions from one user to another. The current desktop becomes a texture placed on a 3D cube that rotates out of view while the incoming account desktop rotates into view on another side of the cube.
<imbrandon> bhale: not on my osx 10.4.7 it dosent , i get a nice gdm looking screen just as nortmal
<minghua> imbrandon: I think there is an option for that
<bhale> i cant map Tiger <> 10.4.7
<minghua> Tiger = 10.4.x
<bhale> codenamed releases are assinine
<StevenK> .4
<imbrandon> anyhow thats still not the same as switching desktops
<imbrandon> tiger == 10.4.anything
<imbrandon> minghua: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2200109535941088987
<StevenK> Tiger is not 10.4.anything
<StevenK> Oh wait, it is. I'm misremembering
<minghua> sorry, don't have flash here
<imbrandon> StevenK: ?
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i was gonna say
<imbrandon> minghua: you can get the avi download on the right
* imbrandon is looking through the system settings, if its an option its well hidden
<imbrandon> but in either case, its not multi desktops in the linux sense
<imbrandon> not untill 10.5
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'm told that flaming in #beryl-dev is good, when beryl crashes
<imbrandon> heh
<minghua> I am not saying it's multi desktops, I am just saying the effect is there
<minghua> and I seriously suspect compiz/beryl got the inspiration from apple
<StevenK> Oh, no doubt.
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> w
<StevenK> Oops.
<sivang> howdy folks
<imbrandon> ello sivang 
<sivang> hey imbrandon 
<giskard> hello sivang 
<sivang> imbrandon: what's the big deal about the ubuntu open week? /me wonders what more news he had missed over the mrely thursday->sunday he's been away
<sivang> hey giskard !
* sivang hugs imbrandon  and giskard 
<sivang> oh, ouch
* sivang reads about Mark's post to opensuse devel list
<apokryphos> it's on /. now too I see
<sivang> apokryphos: but ofcourse. Something like that would have never slipped off them :)
<apokryphos> it took quite long to get on there though; I think they wanted to save it for the slashdot saturday ;-)
<imbrandon> sivang: one post sums it all up for me http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03899.html
<imbrandon> hrm i think its time for some food, bbiab
* apokryphos likes http://andreasjaeger.blogspot.com/2006/11/ubuntus-open-week-and-opensuse.html
<bhale> sivang: the big deal was mark being an ass to the opensuse guys
<bhale> intended or not
<imbrandon> i dident see anywhere in the email him being an ass, i see him inviting them to an event we have if they wanted to come
<imbrandon> show me one line where he is an "ass" ?
* apokryphos chuckles at druid's response
<apokryphos> imbrandon: the very first paragraph, I'd say :)
<sivang> bhale: yeah, I'm now going over the threads
<imbrandon> thats being an ass? it was reiterated by almost all the sues guys too "yea novel sucks blah blah blah"
<bhale> the places he posted it and the way it was worded
<apokryphos> imbrandon: Not at all; in fact, the exact opposite
<apokryphos> everyone's interpreting it at him trying to poach opensuse developers, and doing that on their list
<sivang> bhale: now what's so bad in what novell are doing with M$?
<minghua> different people read the same words differently.  can't we just settle at that?
<imbrandon> suse poeple need to stop reading into it then what its not
<bhale> if someone unknown wrote the same thing in the same place with the same words
<apokryphos> that's certainly (i) spam, (ii) because of his words about Novell/suse it's trolling, and as Burgundavia says "it's just not done"
<bhale> i think we would all agree it was a troll
<apokryphos> imbrandon: I think your presupposition that it's just suse people who are annoyed about this is completely erroneous
<imbrandon> its a damn invatiation , no where in it, infact it explisitlyu states its NOT geared to them
<apokryphos> check the ubuntu planet
<apokryphos> you're telling me the invitation is not geared to them?
<bhale> the title of the blog is "welcome opensuse developers"
<bhale> not "welcome to ubuntu open week"
<imbrandon> apokryphos: i have seen planet , infact i have a post in the que to goto planet, that dosent make them any more right
<apokryphos> the majority of responses on the plane to this, on the blogs, is against his actions
<apokryphos> imbrandon: it doesn't make them right but it does make your previous point kind of wrong
<imbrandon> bhale: but he dident announce the open week, he anounced the invatation
<imbrandon> jono did the open week
<sivang> bhale++ , so is read here
<imbrandon> apokryphos: no
<apokryphos> do you really think it's appropriate to go into another project's mailing list, and try to take their talented developers?
* Hobbsee contemplates removing edgy
<imbrandon> apokryphos: no i dont but i think it perfectly acceptable to go there and invite them to an event they might be interested in
<bhale> imbrandon: it is basically a copy of the mail to opensuse
<bhale> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03765.html
<bhale> which is here
* sivang reads
<imbrandon> apokryphos: and thats what it was if you see it as something else your ASSUMING 
<apokryphos> as most suse guys are saying, the Open Week is great. Looks like there's a lot of wonderful things going on. But it's pretty bad if this is geared around trying to win over some opensuse devs
<bhale> and again starts out by mentioning novell
<apokryphos> imbrandon: you've just flowered up what I just said :)
<apokryphos> so spam is ok, right?
<imbrandon> apokryphos: and it wasent and never marketed that way
<sivang> "Invitation to OpenSUSE developers"
<bhale> it is just fine to invite them, and fedora I guess
<bhale> you could ignore him, crazy old mark
<bhale> this is more loaded than that
<imbrandon> even in his email, he said "hey we're already doing this. you might like to come ... blah blah blah" you are ASSUMING it was geared to opensuse
<bhale> It is in the title
<bhale> and the first paragraph
<apokryphos> imbrandon: the fact that the week is taking place (in itself), is irrelevant. What everyone's annoyed at is the post to the list.
<sivang> it is in the title, indeed
<bhale> he didnt send it to Fedora, did he?
<bhale> or Gentoo
* sivang is shocked
<imbrandon> apokryphos: and that is just plain wrong to be
<apokryphos> though I still maintain the blog itself is very cheeky. But hey, you should post anything you want on your blog
<bhale> intentions aside, it is easily taken as a troll IMHO
<sivang> could anyone please explain a stupid o' non native speaker what is meant by:
<apokryphos> imbrandon: how can you seriously maintain that then? Hey guys, come along to this event that we're doing and we'll teach you how to develop for ubuntu. Forget suse.
<sivang> "go to great lengths to circumvent the patent
<sivang> framework clearly articulated in the GPL has sent shockwaves through the
<sivang> community. If you are an OpenSUSE "
<sivang> are they patenting thier floss stuff to microsoft?
<imbrandon> apokryphos: your close but not quite there yet, stop adding to it
<bhale> sivang: no
<apokryphos> sivang: trying to dodge the GPL, basically.
<bhale> sivang: i will msg you
<sivang> bhale: thanks dude
<apokryphos> imbrandon: I'm quite sure I'm not :)
<apokryphos> imbrandon: it's very easy to flower up what he did; it's different to look at what he ACTUALLY did instead of what he's hoping to do
<apokryphos> I'm not saying his intentions weren't noble or whatnot. But intentions are quite different to actions
* sivang is shocked by the plaeathora of comments it created on planet. what a way to PRing ;)
<apokryphos> and it's actions that we more frequently hold people responsible of, since that's how you excercise your free moral agency
<imbrandon> apokryphos: no thats where your dead wrong, you are "assuming" and adding to it, i'm going by the exact words
<apokryphos> imbrandon: going for words will only tell you his intentions. Looking at what actually happened will... tell you what actually happened.
<minghua> imbrandon: I think it's very arrogant to say other people are "wrong" to be annoyed
<bhale> well
<imbrandon> apokryphos: exactly and he posted an invite to suse developers to join us in a week to learn about ubuntu, thats EXACTLY what happened
<bhale> I am glad that imbrandon and other people are doing Open Week
<imbrandon> nothing wrong with that
<bhale> I should have said that
<imbrandon> even if its posted to their list
<apokryphos> imbrandon: oh, so you're maintaining that he didn't want to try to poach those suse developers?
<bhale> imbrandon: if he wanted to politely do that he should have left our loaded statements about the 'political' climate
<imbrandon> does it say anywhere that he is? it said if they arent happy at home they might be interested, it dident say stop working on suse and come to us
<bhale> and not singled out suse
* sivang wonders what's different in open week then regular get involved emails, irc sessions or anything alike
<imbrandon> thats what people are adding
<sivang> sounds a bit superficial to me
<apokryphos> heh. Yeah, which is exactly poaching. "We can offer you a lot of great stuff here at Ubuntu; come join!!"
<apokryphos> sivang: more sessions :P
<imbrandon> bhale: he dident single out suse, thats the thing, he meerly invited them, the week is for everyone IT EVEN SAYS IN THE MAIL TO THE SUSE GUYS that its for everyone
<imbrandon> gah
<imbrandon> sorry for caps
<sivang> apokryphos: right ;)
<bhale> imbrandon: why didnt he send it to anyone else?
<imbrandon> apokryphos: no its not 
<apokryphos> imbrandon: why does that change anything? I never said the open week was just for suse guys
<imbrandon> bhale: he dident have to as he dident orginise the even, jono sent it to everyone
<apokryphos> the actual events of the open week are irrelevant, as I said. But hey :)
<minghua> the fact that such mails are only sent to opensuse list, but not fedora, gentoo, debian lists, ARE singling out suse
<apokryphos> imbrandon: anyhow, see what Riddell said. Even though Mark is very explicit, Riddell is too
<apokryphos> "Part of the reason this was organised is an attempt to entice openSUSE developers annoyed at the Novell/Microsoft deal over to Ubuntu."
<imbrandon> yes and Riddell is wrong
<imbrandon> i totaly disagree with him
<apokryphos> I think I'll trust Mark's and Riddell's explicit words
<apokryphos> imbrandon: his title didn't say "welcome to ubuntu week!" it said "welcome, opensuse developers!"
<imbrandon> bah your not going by marks explisit words, your reading more into it
<imbrandon> thats the thing
<imbrandon> apokryphos: because that was his invatation
<imbrandon> if you read the mail it says it s not just for them
<imbrandon> EXPLISITLY
<apokryphos> maybe we should work for some definitions here since then things will be clearer
<apokryphos> otherwise we'll go in circles
<imbrandon> bah no i got to run
<imbrandon> but
<apokryphos> ok, see you
<bhale> I dont think I am going to change anyones mind, time for a shower
* bhale hugs imbrandon 
<imbrandon> it boils down to people adding into what they thing its about instead of reading the damn email
<apokryphos> To be completely honest, the only people I see who advocate what Mark did (I won't include you in this category for now) are people who are genuinely blindly following anything that Mark says
<apokryphos> Mark is a wonderful guy, and he hasn't slipped up very majorly before, so it's hard to see. But leaders can be wrong too; they need direction from the community just as much as a community needs direction too
<imbrandon> no i go against what i think is wrong and right, like bin driver, i have a strong stance against those
<imbrandon> etc
<Hobbsee> hey PriceChild 
<PriceChild> Hobbsee!!!! :D
<apokryphos> if you're around later we can discuss it I guess, if you like, imbrandon :)
<PriceChild> What're you doing up at this time Hobbsee?
<imbrandon> and other things, i dont have time to get into it as i really must run, but no , i'm not a "blind" follower
<apokryphos> see ya :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: it's only just gone midnight...
<imbrandon> later :)
<apokryphos> imbrandon: I know, I excluded you from the set :P
* imbrandon hugs everyone
<Hobbsee> and installing xen, to answer the question
<PriceChild> Hobbsee ah ok thought it was past 1....
<Hobbsee> nope
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: how was k?
* Hobbsee hugs imbrandon 
<PriceChild> *work?
<elkbuntu> cya imbrandon
<Hobbsee> was okay
* apokryphos punches imbrandon
<apokryphos> :P
<PriceChild> gd gd
<imbrandon> lol
<sivang> whawo
<sivang> this is amazing
<sivang> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-November/022578.html
* apokryphos chuckles
<gnomefreak> not sure if amazing was the word i was looking for :(
<admin123> that's a good decision, freedom vs user experience. Although I can't seem to see how it' violates ubuntus philosophy 
<sivang> who's JPR and where can I read about his critique of canonical?
<apokryphos> sivang: where's that mentioned?
<apokryphos> admin123: some people think that, as mentioned on ubuntu.com, Ubuntu only includes proprietary drivers when it's absolutely necessary
<apokryphos> so that if accelerated-x and desktop effects aren't necessary, then these shouldn't be included in Ubuntu, on the CD
<admin123> well, the packages could be on cd like they are being availble on repository, so that the user can deside for the user itself.
<sladen> sivang: it's in response to sabdfl's somewhat risque recruiting exercise on the opensuse list weighing in on patents
<admin123> even by warning 
<sladen> sivang: the response from the opensuse was been surprisingly restrained
<apokryphos> admin123: it could, but some people think that violates Ubuntu's Philosophy
<sladen> yes, perhaps it violates the philosophy, the legal technicalities are however incorrect
<admin123> I can't see how it violates ubuntu philosophy. If that was the case then flashplugin-nonfree should be removed also etc.. etc.. This issue has come up with debian wayback, (removing non-free from repository) but it's just not worth it, because of lost of users.
<admin123> ubtil there is a good replacement
<apokryphos> admin123: the flash plugin is not on the cd
<admin123> but this concern's the philosophy right?
<gnomefreak> the things are like l-r-m that are installed from cd that make people think it breaks the ubuntu way
<bhale> lrm has been installed for years, i thought
<bhale> with binary kernel drivers
<sladen> yes.  
<bhale> and blobs
<apokryphos> "We include this software because it is essential in order for Ubuntu to run on certain machines - typical examples are the binary drivers that some video card vendors publish, which are the only way for Ubuntu to run on those machines."
<sladen> avoid binary blobs if possible;  but if people are going to need to do it, then make it easy for them
<apokryphos> the next statement is stronger "By default, we will only use open source software unless there is simply no other way to install Ubuntu."
<gnomefreak> the problem there is its not needed by default its just the linux-image-* (i think thats the meta) that installs it for you.
<apokryphos> I think they meant not use ;-)
<admin123> hehe
<sivang> sladen: I see , so that's probably what everybody refers to as the "satiric" response on -devel ?
<bhale> i am much more concerned about my wifi card working than opengl
<apokryphos> sivang: right
<bhale> i would happily sell my soul for my intel card to keep working out of the box with the binary thingamagig
<sladen> sivang: yes, probably best to resist the urge to reply. 
<gnomefreak> now i do believe ndiswrapper needs to be included in default install for those users that need it but thats a long shot of that happening 
<bhale> ndiswrapper goes far beyond 'binary blob/driver'
<bhale> and you still need networking to get the stupid windows driver anyway
<sivang> sladen: I was not going to reply anyway, I'm not interested on adding to this, it's just odd to open up the online "newspapers" and find out about this :)
<gnomefreak> i know but its still closed source
<sladen> sivang: I think it made slashdot
<apokryphos> today, yeah
<gnomefreak> seems like everything we do ends up on slash or digg
<apokryphos> the painful limelight 8)
<gnomefreak> :)
<sivang> sladen: right, this aien't gonna do us any good as a commnity or as a project
<gnomefreak> i never really rea them its always someone saying something stupid in channel and they tell me where they saw it
<sladen> sivang: it might be worth expressing that to them who wrote it
<bhale> meh, it has been going on for as long as i have been reading (6 years?0
<bhale> if there is a sensational story, it is going up
<bhale> you should feel lucky that normally the slashdot community is largely positive towards ubuntu
<sivang> bhale++ , it's hard to make it to their hearts from what I've seen.
<sivang> e.g., noe easily convicned or acceptive
* gnomefreak personally doesnt think mark meant any disrespect in his post. i think people take it as read though
<sivang> gnomefreak: fact is that many have caught it the wrong way, although it was probably with innocent of the wording, it could take long to fix what this can do
<gnomefreak> but i also believe if opensuse was more mature than us in there eyes they would have let it go not respond with the bs they did. (mature for lack of a better word)
* sivang wonders whom he needs to talk to to include something about hubackup in he Open Week
<sivang> I want to try to get some more people to hack on it
<gnomefreak> this may never be fixable just forgotten
<sivang> gnomefreak: indeed, which is a pity
<sivang> gnomefreak: because really, Mark is great and this is only a slip of tounge AFAICT
<gnomefreak> jdong i think 
<gnomefreak> i agree
<bhale> you mean jono
<gnomefreak> yeah
<gnomefreak> ty
<admin123> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Optimization?highlight=%28Optimization%29
<admin123> nice
<sivang> hmm, reading through http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html , it seems we will at least get the ability to interchangeably use OO and Office content..
<sivang> bhale: it seems they are going to co-operate on mono , .NET and work together to create better integration of the two technologies, how is that bad?
<Adri2000> why does colormake appear in updated merges at http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html ? 0.2-4.2 in debian and 0.2-4.2ubuntu1 in feisty
<sivang> Adri2000: are there any ubuntu specific changes?
<Adri2000> sivang: yes, there is a small patch that is not in debian
<sivang> Adri2000: so sombody probably had to merge the package, as in take the new version from debian and reapply the patch making sure it builds and runs fine.
<sivang> Adri2000: that's probably the reason that it's on updated mergers, if not, than there might be a MoM slip off 
<Adri2000> sivang: it is already merged!
<sivang> Adri2000: you mean, the patch si alredy in debian?
<geser> Adri2000: I assume mom is a little bit out of date
<sivang> or that :)
<Adri2000> sivang: no, but I merged this package, bug 73200
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73200 in colormake "[Merge]  colormake 0.2-4.2ubuntu1" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73200
<geser> it lists 0.2-4ubuntu1 and you uploaded 0.2-4.2ubuntu1
<Adri2000> yes, 0.2-4ubuntu1 is the previous version in Ubuntu, but it was not uploaded by me
<geser> perhaps a bug in mom
<Adri2000> I think so
<geser> it seems to run a new version
<geser> the (lp) link was not there a few days ago
<Adri2000> who is in charge of MoM?
<gnomefreak> DaD?
<gnomefreak> sorry had to
<Adri2000> :P
* admin123 chuckles
<adrian3> hi, I made my first package on revu, and I have a question: how long takes a package to get in the universe repo ? (how long takes to receive the 2 votes ?)
<crimsun> adrian3: no ETA. Some packages languish for months, years.
<crimsun> adrian3: you'll probably want to ask in the channel every couple weeks.
<bhale> sivang: it is bad because of the patent indemnification allowing novell to ship "open" code that no one else can use
<crimsun> adrian3: alternately, try to get the source package into Debian, and it'll be synced in (at the latest, in the next Ubuntu devel cycle) automatically
<adrian3> crimsun: thanks for the answer
<crimsun> we'll have another REVU day sometime
<Q-FUNK> Bug #2620
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2620 in cups-pdf "cups-pdf broken after upgrade to Breezy" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2620
<Q-FUNK> this is getting old and, as far as I know, is fixed for everyone.  should I close it?
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: yes, please
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: thanks.
<Q-FUNK> do we have a procedure for requesting backports to 606 LTS ?
<bhale> To request a package to be backported to, for example, dapper-backports, please file a bug in [WWW]  Malone 
<bhale> assign to 'ubuntu-backporters'
<bhale> subscribe rather
<Q-FUNK> against the package to be back-ported and assigned to ubuntu-backporters ?
<bhale> subscribed to backporters
<bhale> against the package
<pianoboy3333> Where can I get the latest libnautilus-burn and libnautilus-extension?
<ajmitch> morning
<somerville32> Good Morning! :D
<sivang> morning ajmitch 
<joejaxx> Good AfterMorningNightNoon
<joejaxx> to  all timezones
<toitoine> Good night here :-)
<toitoine> is there anyone that could give me a hint for a .schemas problem
<toitoine> I don't manage to make it install
<toitoine> in the good directory
<XiXaQ> will Sun Java be included as default now that Sun has opened it and made it available?
* ajmitch wonders what 'included as default' means
<ajmitch> in main? on the cd?
<XiXaQ> included in main and installed by default?
<ajmitch> XiXaQ: why would it need to be installed by default? java is large
<ajmitch> the only reason things like that get installed by default is if we ship apps on the cd that need it
<XiXaQ> Java is installed by default now, right? 
<ademan> would someone be willing to repackage an upstream update for the eclipse-cdt for me? I swear to you i've been trying, but i can't get it to work, even better if you could give me a bash log so i can see how you did it.  thanks
<ademan> i'd be happy to provide what i've been (trying) to do
<tarball> Is the version of 'unionfs' in edgy broken, the version in the repository is 1.0.14 which is for the 2.4 kernel??
<Adri2000> launchpad is laggy...
<engla> hello. I posted a package I authored on revu. It's pretty stable and tested by me and others in dapper and edgy. Is there a chance that it can make it for universe in feisty?
<phanatic> Adri2000: now it's dead :)
<Adri2000> ^^
<Adri2000> engla: yeah, you just have to wait that a motu review it
<Adri2000> engla: you can give the link here
<engla> okay, great. I was wondering when the "deadline" for feisty was
<engla> its http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3517
<Adri2000> the deadline is the universe freeze, but the date doesn't seem to be defined yet, according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
<joejaxx> February :D
<engla> ah ok
<Adri2000> joejaxx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule it is cleary stated here
<Adri2000> engla: there is no .diff.gz on revu
<toitoine> hi here I'm making a package but my .schemas file goes into /usr/etc/ instead of /usr/share
<engla> Adri2000: I didn't think there should be one. As I said, I'm the original author and the first packager
<toitoine> I'm using dh_gconf
<engla> so my tarball should be the original, thus no diff?
<Adri2000> engla: there is a diff for all non debian native packages, at least for the whole debian/ direcotry
<Adri2000> directory*
<toitoine> anyone could help please ?
<toitoine> as I understand it the .schemas file should go in /etc/gconf/schemas and dh_conf moves it
<engla> hmm I don't know about this. the debian/ is in the orig tarball here. But that's right I think since this package is "original to ubuntu"; ie if I package it there is no upstream
<toitoine> I'm right ?
<engla> but I can check again
<TheMuso> toitoine: Is it a package that uses the ./configure && make && make install method of building?
<toitoine> TheMuso: no, autotools
<TheMuso> But you do run the .configure script to prepare the apckage for compilation right?
<toitoine> TheMuso: yes it's run at the end of autoconf
<TheMuso> Ok. YOu need to re-run it, and give it the correct paths to the various locations.
<TheMuso> I don't know how one references the gconf dir. Have a look at another package in the archive that has gconf schemas and see what it does.
<TheMuso> You need to pass it the --prefix=/usr --datadir=/usr/share --sysconfdir=/etc or something like that.
<Adri2000> engla: hmm, why whould it be only for ubuntu?
<Adri2000> engla: is it only useful in an ubuntu environment?
<toitoine> TheMuso: ok, I'll try 
<toitoine> TheMuso: I'm giving --prefix=/usr
<toitoine> but not --datadir=/usr/share
<engla> Adri2000: nope, it's generally useful. But I am upstream and my original tarballs have always contained the debian/ directory. now I can accept that that is wrong
<Adri2000> engla: I suppose that the sources are available somewhere on a website?
<Adri2000> engla: and what is the license?
<engla> sure, sec
<engla> the website is below and the lic is GPL
<engla> http://www.student.lu.se/~cif04usv/wiki/dragbox.html
<Adri2000> engla: ok, so no, you shouldn't ship the debian/ directory in the original tarball
<engla> I want to do that since that's "pre-packaging" it, even if it isn't in any distro (yet). So people can grab my sources and issue "dpkg-buildpackage .."
<engla> so it's a service I think, and I don't see any harm in doing my general tarballs like that
<engla> but.. I still could force the debian/ stuff to go into a diff, but I don't know how to do that yet
<toitoine> TheMuso: Thanks you VERY much (I've been searching during 3 hours :-) )
<Adri2000> engla: when we want to package a program which ship a debian/ directory, we usually ask upstream to remove it
<engla> ah
<TheMuso> toitoine: Did it go into the right dir? If so, thats great news.
<toitoine> TheMuso: yes it now goes in the right dir
<TheMuso> toitoine: Great.
<engla> I'll ask myself to remove that and then go behind my back and add the same stuff again. ;-)
<Adri2000> :-)
<Adri2000> I think someone should write a "Why is it bad to ship the debian/ directory in the upstream tarball"
<toitoine> Adri2000: I second that because I'm reading your talk with engla and I really don't understand
<toitoine> I'm making a software and I should keep original tarball and /debian directory separated
<toitoine> only using /debian when doing a package ? That's it ?
<Adri2000> yes debian/ is for the packager, not upstream's work, even if sometimes upstream = packager
<toitoine> ok, if that's the rule :-)
<engla> but please, write the text
<engla> I think I found the base of my view on it from somewhere in the debian packager's guide
<Adri2000> the debian packager's guide saying that debian/ in upstream tarball is good?
<engla> not like that no. :) I'm not sure that it mentions it, but I think it states that sometimes there is no diff if the package is original to debian
<engla> but perhaps that means "specific for debian" (my dragbox is actually in arch, so it's not specific)
<Adri2000> that's debian native package, and your program is not a debian native package
<toitoine> Adri2000: sorry to insist but what's make a debian native package ? what's the difference if I'm upstream and packager ?
<Adri2000> a debian native package is for instance dpkg
<Amaranth> debian native would be dpkg
<toitoine> not a .deb file you mean ?
<Adri2000> read http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2001/01/msg00191.html and the answers
<toitoine> ok, thanks
<Adri2000> nice to see that the last answer was written by Colin Watson (https://launchpad.net/people/kamion) and that was in 2001! :)
<toitoine> useful reading, should be in the "Docs to read to make a package" :-)
<toitoine> ok, sorry to bother you again but I'm still having one last error : lintian is ok, but linda is still asking more :-)
<toitoine> it's complaining about the changelog.gz which doesn't exist
<toitoine> in fact the upstream changelog is "ChangeLog"
<Adri2000> toitoine: is it a native package here or not? :)
<toitoine> Adri2000: it's mine, I can make it became what I want but I have users asking for an Ubuntu deb file :-)
<Adri2000> if it's native, there is only one changelog
<toitoine> Adri2000: so solution should be to remove changelog in /debian ?
<Adri2000> no, there is always a debian/changelog, it is either a "packaging" changelog, either the "real" changelog (with the actual changes in the program) if it's a native package
<toitoine> Adri2000: I'm getting it : since I've removed the "-1" on the numbering there's no reason to have a debian changelog, that's it ?
<toitoine> Adri2000: ok, reverse
<Adri2000> if you remove the -1, then it's native
<toitoine> Adri2000: I should continue with "debianization", then put my /debian files in place
<toitoine> Adri2000: so there should be 2 changelog but that will be coherent...
<engla> heh I wonder one more thing too
<LaserJock> hi guys
<LaserJock> you look like you could use some help
<engla> the lintian file on revu doesn't match mine of course. Mine produces no output for the source package
<Adri2000> toitoine: always debian/changelog, and if it's non native, a possible upstream changelog
<Adri2000> hi LaserJock
<toitoine> Adri2000: quite simple when you're starting to understand :-)
<Adri2000> engla: yeah, lintian's revu is not up to date for feisty I think
<engla> while the revu lintian complains about too high version for standards something (shoudl be fine I think), but also for something with arch-independent and dependend builddeps
<toitoine> Thanks a lot for your help everyone
<engla> (sorry for my sloppy writing there)
<Adri2000> engla: your program is python?
<Adri2000> +written in
<engla> yes
<Adri2000> so your rules is wrong because it does binary-indep
<Adri2000> and you should follow the debian python policy
<engla> I have to confess I don't know much about coupling autotools, python and debian packaging. but it works. 
<engla> hm, but why doesn't my local lintian tell me that?
<Adri2000> I'm not sure it is able to check all the things of the python policy
<Adri2000> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ and http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<Adri2000> engla: also, in the changelog, distribution should be feisty instead of unstable, and the version is, IMO, wrong, should't be native :)
<engla> oh well
<engla> this is messy. All the debianization scripts are smart, but they leave small stamps of debian everywhere which you have to circumvent
<engla> so my version next time will be 0.2.3-0ubuntu1 ?
<engla> (now 0.2.3)
<Adri2000> yes, but when uploading your package to ubuntu for the first time, there should be only one changelog entry: "Initial release"
<LaserJock> well, there doesn't *have* to be only 1 entry
<engla> you know, this is confusing. I have to think like a whole distro or release team all by myself.
<LaserJock> engla: ok, what's confusing you? let's go through it
<LaserJock> engla: using lintian -i *.dsc gives you more info, btw
<engla> well I think I am fine for now, I've got many things answered. It's confusing to be both upstream and packager and negotiate those :)
<engla> lintian -i doesn't output anything extra in my case
<engla> but I'm reading the python policy docs
<LaserJock> engla: if you are upstream also I'd just recommend that you spilt the packaging from the source
<engla> I will following this
<LaserJock> everything you have to do to make a .deb should be in the debian/ folder and that shouldn't be included in the source tarball
<engla> I'll have to keep the packaging versioned anyway and keep it in svn on gna.org anyway. Should I just keep the debian dir as a separate "module" there perhaps
<LaserJock> yeah, that's a good idea
<LaserJock> if you keep them together then any little change in the packaging will require a new release of your app's source
<Adri2000> crimsun: err, the alternative build-dep isn't needed anymore?
<crimsun> Adri2000: no, we have a transitional package.
<Adri2000> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-19
<SWAT> configure: creating ./config.status \ cd  && /bin/bash ./config.status Makefile \ /bin/bash: ./config.status: No such file or directory || It happens when I build a package. Any tips?
<Stemp> Hi all
<nxvl_work> hi folks!
<Stemp> I have a problem with my pbuilder, it doesnt seem to recognize universe repo
<nxvl_work> Stemp: you need to add it
<Hobbsee> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Hobbsee> did you follow all the required steps in ^, particualrly the part about universe?
<nxvl_work> ash pbuilder creates a clean system it only uses main and restricted repos
<Stemp> I I have the COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse" line in my ~/.pbuilderrc
<nxvl_work> Stemp: did u update --override-config?
<Stemp> yep
<Stemp> s$ sudo pbuilder update --override-config
<Hobbsee> remove /etc/pbuilderrc, i suspect.
<Stemp> no :(
<Stemp>    -> Trying libwebkitgtk-dev
<Stemp>        -> Cannot install libwebkitgtk-dev; apt errors follow:
<Stemp> Reading package lists... Done
<Stemp> Building dependency tree
<Stemp> Reading state information... Done
<Stemp> E: Couldn't find package libwebkitgtk-dev
<StevenK> Stemp: Run 'sudo pbuilder login' and 'cat /etc/apt/sources.list' in the shell pbuilder gives you
<Stemp> ok
<Hobbsee> remove it, and /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc, then run the --override-config again.
<Stemp> ^^ gutsy !!
<jdong> umm what repos have libwebkitgtk-dev?
<StevenK> Then missing universe isn't your problem
<StevenK> Hardy only
<jdong> Hardy.
<Stemp> universe jdong
<jdong> yeah, like StevenK said
<jdong> Stemp: is that a hardy pbuilder?
<Stemp> yes jdong
<StevenK> Stemp: Yes, universe for hardy. You need to change the DISTRIBUTION to hardy and update --override-config
<StevenK> It so isn't, given what you said after I asked you to cat /etc/apt/sources.list
<Stemp> humm you're right
<Stemp> i made a mistake somewhere, it was an hardy pbuilder
<Stemp> pbuilder update give me gutsy repo :(
<StevenK> Stemp: pbuilder update ---distribution hardy --override-config
<StevenK> Sprinkle sudo to taste
<nxvl_work> or download the distribution-specific pbuilder scripts
<nxvl_work> i use them and i fine, despide the fact that execute doesn't work fine
<StevenK> Execute uses a script, not command line arguments
<nxvl_work> oh!
<nxvl_work> maybe thats the why, trying
<Stemp> ok i'm so sorry, pbuilder was on gutsy.... sorry again :(
<StevenK> Does it work now?
<Stemp> It is downloading and updating packages
<StevenK> Oh right, it's upgrading to hardy
<Stemp> I'm sure I created pbuilder for hardy, I probably messed things up after that
<jdong> StevenK: actually, duh, looking at Stemp's buildlog output it's using pbuilder-satisfydepends.pl
<jdong> StevenK: which means it can't be Hardy :)
<StevenK> jdong: Why not?
<jdong> StevenK: hardy uses pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy by default
<jdong> which uses a fake package + aptitude
<jdong> no Trying. ... type output
<StevenK> I'm guessing the hardy pbuilder package does that, I suspect Stemp isn't running Hardy
<Stemp> I'm running gutsy
<jdong> err, it should be whatever pbuilder is inside the build env that does that
<jdong> like I'm on a Gutsy host and my Hardy pbuilder environment does that
<jdong> it did it so well I locally backported pbuilder from hardy to gutsy so that my gutsy pbuilders would instantly resolve deps too
<nxvl_work> highvoltage: ping
<Stemp> ok pbuilder worked thanks a lot
<Stemp> I still have a thousands questions, but that's a big step
<Stemp> I have an even more stupid question, do you think it's a good way for learning to try to package a new ubuntu package ? It already exist in Debian experimental. I tried to upload it on REVU but i'm not sure if I've done the things right
<jdong> if it already is in debian experimental then it's already packaged, right?
<Stemp> yes
<Stemp> but.. there is a patch... changing the homepage from google.com to debian.org
<jdong> I don't know what the preferred policy on that would be, but tossing it onto revu would not be a bad idea
<Hobbsee> contributing the patch to debian would be a decent idea.
<Hobbsee> although i'm not sure why debian.org is a homepage  for a particular package
<Stemp> it's a browser
<Stemp> midori
<soothsayer> HOw do I translate a gitweb url to one I can pass to git-clone
<soothsayer> ?
<Hobbsee> soothsayer: #ubuntu?
<soothsayer> Hobbsee: Seemed development-ish
<Hobbsee> sure, but most of us dont use git
<Hobbsee> and you also got no answer
<jdong> soothsayer: my only guess is to add .git/ to the end of the base URL
<jdong> soothsayer: if that doesn't work then find the real git:// repo URL
<jdong> because branching git over HTTP is painfully slow too :(
<Hobbsee> if it exists, #git would also be a good one
<LordKow> if there is a conflicting package included in the dapper repositories but no longer included in the latest repos (hardy) can it safely be removed as a conflict/replacement in debian/control?
<Hobbsee> LordKow: yes
<LordKow> okay :) danke
<Hobbsee> (and you can drop the change in hardy+1)
<LordKow> bug 163701
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163701 in alps-light1 "[hardy] Please sync alps-light1 with debian 1.2.2-2.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163701
<jdong> Hobbsee: wait a second is it safe to drop the Conflicts: in Hardy on a Dapper package?
<jdong> Dapper->Hardy upgrades are going to be supported right?
<Hobbsee> jdong: no.
<Hobbsee> jdong: exactly
<jdong> Hobbsee: ok good, just checking :)
<Hobbsee> jdong: but you can drop in hardy+1, as we dont support dapper --> hardy+1
<jdong> right
<Hobbsee> and the hardy users will have the new package anyway.
<Hobbsee> so their upgrade is fine
<jdong> yep
 * TheMuso hates libtool at times...
<Hobbsee> (thank goodness we dont do more than two LTS releases at once)
<LordKow> i dont see any problem with leaving in no-longer included packages in control (for conflicts/replaces, etc) but over time it will turn into a mess
<Hobbsee> well, excluding server, anyway
<StevenK> TheMuso: s/\(at\)/\1 all/
<Hobbsee> LordKow: you only need it for upgrades
<Stemp> bye all and thanks again
<Hobbsee> LordKow: and people only dist-upgrade certain versions
<StevenK> Hobbsee: We won't even have three LTSes even with server, I don't think.
<Hobbsee> LordKow: so you only end up with a couple
<Hobbsee> StevenK: no?  5 years, LTS released every 2?
<TheMuso> StevenK: lol. The actual thing thats causing me grief is packages creating .la files that aren't recognising that libgcrypt.la is now in /usr/lib.
<Hobbsee> dapper wills till be supported with hardy+4 coming out
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Which means the 3rd is released in year 6?
<Hobbsee> although we wont support dapper --> hardy+4, of course
<Hobbsee> StevenK: unless i've got my maths wrong, that would be the *4*th released in year 6.
<StevenK> Dh
<LordKow> Hobbsee, yea exactly, but if the specific version of the package (say the one in the bug report) will never make it to the dapper repositories then they might as well be removed now (versus later)
<StevenK> Doh, even
<Hobbsee> you're missing the one released at year 0 :)
<LordKow> and it allows ubuntu to sync the package with debian rather than merge :)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Yeah, okay, my maths is broken, not yours. :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: Is there any docs about why doing such things as what clean-la.mk in cdbs is important?
<TheMuso> s/clean-la.mk/clean-la.mk does/
<Hobbsee> LordKow: why would we want to remove it?
<StevenK> TheMuso: A bunch of the distro team is convinced .la are broken. clean-la clears the dependancy line in them
<TheMuso> StevenK: SO I see.
<LordKow> the way i see it. if we dont remove ANY obsolete (no longer included) packages from the control file then it will fill up massively over time and become a giant mess
<StevenK> TheMuso: This means that libtool won't put extra depends in when linking, causing us more work for transistions
<Hobbsee> LordKow: are you talking about removing a package, or removing a line from debian/control?
<Hobbsee> LordKow: indeed, which is why we dont do that.
<LordKow> +Conflicts: libalps-light1c2a +Replaces: libalps-light1c2a
<LordKow> for instance
<Hobbsee> LordKow: we only preserve the upload path from LTS -->NextLTS, and version-->next version.
<LordKow> those are in dapper but i do not think they are in any of ubuntu's repos since dapper
<TheMuso> StevenK: Causing us more work for transitions when the dependcy-libs stuff is filled in, or when its cleared?
<Hobbsee> so after that transition is done, we drop.
<StevenK> TheMuso: When it's filled in
<Hobbsee> LordKow: which bug?
<TheMuso> StevenK: gotcha.
<LordKow> Hobbsee, bug 163701
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163701 in alps-light1 "[hardy] Please sync alps-light1 with debian 1.2.2-2.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163701
<LordKow> if we need to keep those conflicts/replacements then it will be a simple merge, otherwise it can be synced
<LordKow> i guess the only problem i see is if someone does a dapper->hardy w/ those c2a packages installed. that would be problematic
 * Hobbsee looks at it
<Hobbsee> LordKow: you're right.
<Hobbsee> LordKow: so you need to keep them for hardy, and then drop tehm for hardy+1
<LordKow> oh by hardy+1 you mean 8.04.1?
<Hobbsee> no, 8.10
<LordKow> ahh
<LordKow> yes, that makes sense
<LordKow> we know for a fact that anyone upgrading from hardy to the next release will not have those c2a variants (unless they get re-added in the future for whatever reason)
<Hobbsee> LordKow: correct.
 * Hobbsee comments on the bug
<LordKow> so the end result is I shall merge with debian by maintaining our conflicts/replacements.
<Hobbsee> correct!
<Hobbsee> LordKow: if you do that, add a patch, and poke me, and i'll sponsor it for you.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Do you know if the clean-la.mk code is likely to be broken out into something else so that packages that don't use cdbs can make use of it more easily?
<LordKow> okay i'll do this right now, shouldn't take long
<Hobbsee> cool
<griffinc> hi, can anyone answer a few questions on merge warnings?
<griffinc> A Debian control file has 'Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<griffinc> in the package section but pbuilder gives an 'unknown substitution' error on this.
<griffinc> warning, actually, not an error
<griffinc> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends}
<griffinc> not sure what to do w/ that warning
<ajmitch> that's generally ignored, as it's common to have packages created from dh-make with that in place
<ajmitch> and many people don't remove it, perhaps in case they need it later
<griffinc> ok, cool.  thanks ajmitch.  one or two more questions...
<griffinc> In the debian source, the menu file uses section="Applications/Tools" but the gutsy menu file has section="Apps/Tools".  I read the Debian menu policy and I think they now use Applications instead of Apps.  Anyway, pbuilder does not like Applications.  :-)
 * ajmitch isn't up to date on the latest policies
<ajmitch> but at least the debian menu file isn't really much use :)
<griffinc> true enough :-)
<griffinc> ok just 1 more question
<griffinc> pbuilder also gives me a warning about the user-defined field 'Original-Maintainer'.  I have in my control file XSBC-Original-Maintainer underneath Maintainer.  Ok to ignore this warning too?
<ajmitch> yes
<griffinc> I thought so, but wanted to make sure.  :-) thank you, ajmitch!
<RAOF> Oh, dear.  Look at bug #163707
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163707 in gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg "gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg should link with system ffmpeg libraries (libavcodec, etc)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163707
<jdong> RAOF: I thought we had a reason to do that, namely the API of ffmpeg is unpredictably shifting
<jdong> anyway I'm curious, I'll take a close look
<RAOF> jdong: Yes, indeed.
<RAOF> But it seems that the Debian security team are sick of having a multitude of statically linked copies of different versions of ffmpeg in a half a dozen packages in the archives.
<RAOF> And who can blame them.
 * RAOF gets back to marking before he starts this week's "rag on ffmpeg developers" session.
<jdong> RAOF: targetted against gstreamer-ffmpeg 0.10.3 upstream...
<jdong> I don't see if that release even exists
<jdong> nonetheless, let's apply that patch for laughs
<RAOF> You won't see me touching that with a 10" pole.  I predict huge, ungainly patches for the universe multimedia stuff to build them against !$THEIR_FFMPEG_VERSION.
<jdong> RAOF: I tend to be the guy who plays with stuff like that ;-)
<RAOF> Just as long as you don't play with any packages I have to touch :P
 * ajmitch puts in a -1
<RAOF> Only -1?
<ajmitch> any more would be mean
<LaserJock> oh, nice
<LaserJock> my laptop is running way better
<LaserJock> and so quiet
<ajmitch> good
<ajmitch> what did you do to it?
<LaserJock> took the fan off
<RAOF> Heh
<LaserJock> put new thermal paste on
<LaserJock> and cleaned out the fan and cooling fins
<LaserJock> doesn't sound like an airplane
<LaserJock> and is running about 20C cooler
<ajmitch> not bad
<LaserJock> took me over an hour to get it back together though
 * jdong puts on evil "let's see if it compiles" grin
 * pwnguin wishes there were a smarter Tee
<ajmitch> jdong: if it compiles, upload it?
<jdong> ajmitch: haha, no :)
 * pwnguin finds multitee
<jdong> I've got marginally better sense of paranoia than that :)
<ajmitch> if it doesn't compile, upload it? :)
<jdong> ajmitch: well that couldn't do any harm ;-)
<jdong> :D
 * ajmitch cuts & paste quote for MC list
<jdong> haha
<LordKow> does ubuntu's packages need to be lintian clean?
<LaserJock> it's nice
<LaserJock> but most of the time we won't reject it out of hand
<LaserJock> it depends on the warning/error
<LordKow> what about in regards to simply updating/merging packages?
<LaserJock> oh, usually that's fine
<LaserJock> as  long as you aren't creating new lintain output :-)
<RAOF> Don't feel bad about fixing lintian/linda errors while merging, though :)
<LordKow> why would i do that?
<RAOF> Particularly if you then send that back up to Debian.
<LaserJock> LordKow: if you mess something up and it creates a lintian error
<LordKow> LaserJock, yes then i should fix that.
<LaserJock> LordKow: the key to merging is to keep the changes as few as possible
<LordKow> but its not the case here
<LordKow> ah well then im doing pretty good. 1 change required for dapper->hardy
<jdong> *grumble* stupid autoreconf
<LaserJock> lol, my father-in-law just emailed that he saw an article on Linux in Popular Science and it mentioned something about Ubuntu 6.06 and wondered if he should get it
<jdong> :)
<RAOF> The only thing worse than autotools seems to be almost every other build system. :)
<StevenK> RAOF: cmake looks to be sensible
<jdong> RAOF: I just don't want 34,000 line debdiffs from forgeting to remove the cache
<LaserJock> StevenK: cmake has some cool stuff but I recently ran into a big limitation
<LaserJock> StevenK: I wanted to make a convenience library for a package and cmake doesn't support that
<RAOF> jdong: I'm sure you could write a strip-autofoo.mk for cdbs :)
<LaserJock> but it sure looks nice and I love the build progress output
<jdong> RAOF: :)
<RAOF> LaserJock: That seems like a pretty big limitation!
<jdong> RAOF: well wrestling with system ffmpeg first, automake uncrufter later ;-)
<RAOF> Surely they have some way of doing that?
<jdong> checking for FFMPEG... yes
<jdong> checking for POSTPROC... yes
<LaserJock> not within cmake itself
<jdong> whoo
<LaserJock> RAOF: it's in there FAQ
<LaserJock> *their
<jdong> /usr/include/ffmpeg/avformat.h:282: warning: 'AVFrac' is deprecated
<jdong> pffft
<RAOF> LaserJock: As I can well imagine.  What's their answer?  (Or just link to the faq)
<RAOF> jdong: Be thankful they haven't removed AVFrac yet :P
<LaserJock> RAOF: http://www.cmake.org/Wiki/CMake_FAQ#Does_CMake_support_.22convenience.22_libraries.3F
<jdong> RAOF: urgh quite a number of API chagnes chasing after
<jdong> RAOF: this reminds me of my morning with avidemux
<RAOF> LaserJock: Oh, and the FAQ answer immediately below seems awkward from a packaging point of view, too :(
 * RAOF told jdong so :P
<Yagisan> LaserJock, I find cmake works rather well - I have used and abused it quite at lot - doesn't support some evil windows linking tricks though
<jdong> RAOF: meh I figure I'll give it a few hours of patience to vindicate myself from an "it's a  lot of work" copout :)
<LaserJock> RAOF: yeah, some good things and bad things I guess
<jdong> besides, I'm only on my 11th round of FTBFS
<RAOF> jdong: What are you patching gst-ffmpeg each time?
<jdong> RAOF: yeah, I'm pushing up to a compile error, adjusting my ffmpeg-api-migration patch, then rinse and repeat
<jdong> RAOF: I don't exactly have a comprehensive list of ffmpeg API changes since whenever this ffmpeg was packaged
 * RAOF wonders if such a list even exists.
<jdong> RAOF: their svn changelog... :-/
<RAOF> Assuming they document each API change in the changelog :P
<RAOF> They probably do, they're not actively evil.  Just annoyingly misguided.
<jdong> RAOF: they do, but IMO their API changes are often for extremely frivolous reasons
<jdong> and are extremely frustrating to keep track of
<jdong> I wish they'd stabilize an API
<RAOF> And wouldn't be so bad if they actually *released*.  Ever.
<jdong> well I've got it to the point where it makes it 15 seconds into a compile now
<jdong> so I'm making progress
<jdong> so far the patches have been quite trivial
<jdong> just tedious
<StevenK> jdong: 15 seconds? What's that, one .cpp file?
<jdong> StevenK: core 2 duo 2.16, like haflway thru
<RAOF> StevenK: As long as there aren't too many templates in there :P
<StevenK> Haha
<jdong> OH DEAR LORD
<jdong> DEAR EFFING LOARD
<jdong> IT BUILT!!!!!11111
 * jdong proceeds to look at outputted deb
<StevenK> Don't sound so shocked :-P
<RAOF> Which means it obviously works :P
<jdong> RAOF: lol testing that next
<jdong> Version: 0.10.2-4ubuntu2~7.10prevu1
<jdong> Depends: libavcodec1d (>= 0.cvs20070307), libavformat1d (>= 0.cvs20070307), libavutil1d (>= 0.cvs20070307),
<jdong> ^^ good sign #1 :)
<RAOF> jdong: Surely not.  C is statically typed!  That means you don't have to test it - the compiler guarantees it's correct :P
<jdong> RAOF: haha
<jdong> RAOF: and plus it's written with the goodness of GNOME
<jdong> any genius ideas how to test gstreamer-ffmpeg, other than playing some DivX in totem?
<jdong> HOLY CRAP IT PLAYS
<jdong> even H.264 works
<Hobbsee> see, this is why we dont want jdong as a MOTU :P
<Hobbsee> however, i wonder if blender works.
<jdong> who's yo daddy?
<jdong> *ducks*
<Hobbsee> he's gone to NZ :P
<jdong>  5 files changed, 16690 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
<jdong> stupid autoreconf cruft.... deal with that later
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: lol
<crimsun> jdong: filterdiff(1)
 * StevenK kicks autotools
<StevenK> Don't tell me pkg-config doesn't exist, it does, you're just not looking at all!
<jdong> can someone provide advice to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg/+bug/163707
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163707 in gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg "gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg should link with system ffmpeg libraries (libavcodec, etc)" [Undecided,New]
<jdong> the last comment
<LordKow> Hobbsee, 2 debdiffs for bug 163701
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163701 in alps-light1 "[hardy] Please merge alps-light1 1.2.2-2.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (science)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163701
<crimsun> ah, ffmpeg madness.
<RAOF> Indeed.
<RAOF> jdong: Actually, you might want to ask slomo about this - he's one of the Debian maintainers, AFAIK
<jdong> RAOF: yeah I have a number of things to ask slomo, just need to pounce on him the next time he signs on
<RAOF> :)
<jdong> but so far I think it looks promising as to the original bug -- I'd rather spend a bit of effort to build against system ffmpeg than use some old bundled one
<RAOF> jdong: As far as versioning goes, you should probably be able to get away with not too strict versioning - it's libavcodec0d's responsibility to be ABI compatible, really.
<jdong> I've been wondering why gstreamer plays various media formats poorer than VLC, and this is definitely a contributing factor
<jdong> RAOF: yeah I think unversioned is fine for now, it'll definitely build on Hardy, but it'll probably FTBFS on, say, a feisty attempted backport during compile phase, and probably do the same sometime in the future when we update ffmpeg again
<jdong> RAOF: I was just wondering if it was unholy for packages to do that
<jdong> i.e. passing a build-dep but failling to build due to API change
<RAOF> Oh, the *build* depend will undoubtedly require stricter versioning.
<jdong> RAOF: any suggestions on how on earth to figure out what the valid range would be? :D
<RAOF> Since they break API more frequently than ABI.
<RAOF> jdong: I'd be tempted to do >= $CURRENT, << $CURRENT+1
<jdong> RAOF: with +1 being one day's increment on the svn snapshot date?
<RAOF> Ah, that's how it's versioned?  Yeah.
<crimsun> jdong: vlc does the same thing that gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg does.
<RAOF> (Of course that's how it's versioned.  FFmpeg don't release!)
<jdong> crimsun: it has a newer snapshot doesn't it?
<RAOF> As does *anything* using ffmpeg!
<crimsun> jdong: it used to
<jdong> RAOF: mplayer seems to use system ffmpeg currently
<crimsun> it was cleaned up
<RAOF> jdong: Only because Debian patched that in.
<jdong> RAOF: ah
<RAOF> See point "Debian security team" :)
<crimsun> hardy's mplayer doesn't b-d on system ffmpeg; vlc does.  Interesting.
<saivann> Hi everyone, I'm working on the bug 77080 which require gnucash to recommend "gnucash-docs". I've made a debdiff to fix this issue in hardy but I would need someone to approve and upload
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 77080 in gnucash "Gnucash-docs isn't installed with gnucash" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/77080
<pwnguin> jdong: if you're looking for more test cases, ive got a ton ;)
<crimsun> saivann: have you attached said debdiff?
<jdong> RAOF: do you think >=$CURRENT_SNAP_DATE would be strict enough? Predicting the other bound of the date is like voodoo, isn't it? :)
<saivann> crimsun : I do it right now
<saivann> crimsun : The debdiff is now attached
<pwnguin> jdong: if you've got a few .mkv's handy that'd also make a good test case ^_^
<jdong> pwnguin: I probably do, and I can probably just shove a few things into mkv's
<jdong> pwnguin: but you're of course more than welcome to test too ;-)
<pwnguin> jdong: repo handy?
<RAOF> jdong: Yes, it is voodoo.  I'm not sure which is worse, FTBFS because of API changes, or FTBFS because of unnecessarily strict b-d's.
<StevenK> Oh, you stupid configure test
<jdong> pwnguin: gutsy or hardy?
<RAOF> It's a non-stop autotools hate fest!
<pwnguin> gutsy
<jdong> pwnguin: one sec :)
<jdong> pwnguin: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg_0.10.2-4ubuntu2~7.10prevu1_i386.deb
<StevenK> RAOF: Right on
<pwnguin> jdong: excellent. the other question is, what all does ffmpeg handle?
<pwnguin> isn't h264 its own lib?
<jdong> pwnguin: no, ffmpeg decodes h264 itself
<jdong> pwnguin: x264 provides an encoder but only an experimental decoder that's not used
<RAOF> pwnguin: gst-inspect | grep ff
<pwnguin> excellent
<jdong> pwnguin: I'm pretty sure almost all video formats you throw at totem-gstreamer are gonna be handled by ffmpeg
<pwnguin> flv
<jdong> definitely ffmpeg
<pwnguin> mp4
<jdong> I've already verified mp4 containers
<RAOF> A mere 230 different elements to test :P
<pwnguin> ive got this unreproduceable bug regarding mp4
<pwnguin> about half of the mp4s i download from google and play later don't work
<pwnguin> "no playable streams"
<jdong> pwnguin: are you sure they are not DRM'ed mp4's?
<pwnguin> everyone else claims they work =(
<pwnguin> reasonably
<jdong> my media collection is almost completely in MPEG4 containers
<jdong> and apart from gst-ffmpeg's distortion/corruption on some H.264's, no major problems
<pwnguin> qtdemux.c(1444): gst_qtdemux_loop (): /play/decodebin0/qtdemux0:
<pwnguin> no known streams found
<jdong> pwnguin: umm....
<jdong> pwnguin: is that a real mp4 container or is that mov?
<pwnguin> i have no idea =
<jdong> pwnguin: output of file on it?
<jdong> also output of ffmpeg -i on it
<pwnguin> Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from '473b133e31b77e47.avi.mp4': Duration: N/A, bitrate: N/A
<jdong> pwnguin: err.... where *are* the streams?
<jdong> Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from 'Family Guy - 1x01 - Death Has A Shadow.m4v.m4v': Duration: 00:22:32.2, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 598 kb/s Stream #0.0(und): Video: h264, yuv420p, 640x480, 23.98 fps(r) Stream #0.1(und): Audio: aac, 48000 Hz, stereo
<jdong> that's what it's supposed to look like
<jdong> you should at least have an audio and video stream in there
<jdong> :-/ if ffmpeg can't parse the MP4 then I don't know what the problem is
<saivann> crimsun : did you look at the debdiff?
<pwnguin> well, at 112Mb there should be some streams in it
<crimsun> saivann: I'm checking out from bzr
<saivann> crimsun : Thanks
<Hobbsee> LordKow: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10464329/prev_ubuntu-new_ubuntu.debdiff is wrong.
<Hobbsee> LordKow: it doesnt have the debian change in it
<jdong> pwnguin: can mplayer parse it?
<crimsun> saivann: I've modified your debdiff
<pwnguin> "cannot find codec for audio format 0x56444152"
<pwnguin> then it plays a bunch of random data on the video
<saivann> crimsun : You changed the uploader and the description?
<pwnguin> maybe i should disable medibuntu =/
<jdong> pwnguin: 0x56444152 is raw DV
<jdong> pwnguin: which can't be right for a mp4... can it?
<pwnguin> im gonna redownload this and make sure the file isnt corrupt
<LordKow> Hobbsee, which debian change?
<Hobbsee> LordKow: the one listed in the changelog
<Hobbsee> oh, hang on.
<RAOF> jdong: You can stick any sort of codec into any sort of container if you try hard enough :P.  Doesn't mean it'll play, though.
<LordKow> the rc bug fix?
<jdong> RAOF: true, but I wouldn't expect to find one of those in the wild!
<Hobbsee> LordKow: forgot it was already in ubuntu :)
<pwnguin> jdong: the file's already named something wierd like <random hash>.avi.mp4
<jdong> pwnguin: I'm pretty sure the file that you have is corrupt, DRM'ed, or otherwise tainted
<pwnguin> that seems unlikely that they'd drm a tech talk
<Hobbsee> LordKow: uploaded, thanks
<pwnguin> esp when other people claim it works for em.
<jdong> pwnguin: then probably download related problem :)
<LordKow> np
<pwnguin> bug #156826
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156826 in gstreamer "some mp4s fail to play" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156826
<jdong> pwnguin: lemme take a look
<RAOF> pwnguin: You could possibly try gst-launching it through ffdemux_mov_mp4
<pwnguin> jdong: judging by the filesize, im thinking incopmplete downloads =(
<jdong> pwnguin: an incomplete mp4 will show up like that
<RAOF> pwnguin: (There's a whole bunch of extra stuff on the end of that element name, incidentally)
<pwnguin> ?
<jdong> pwnguin: i.e. a truncated mp4 will show up as having no streams
<crimsun> way to leave me wringing my hands, bzr.
<LaserJock> hmm, the ubuntu.com download page doesn't  link to any documentation on burning an .iso :/
 * crimsun hopes this bzr push is actually doing something, as there's no indication of progress
<jdong> pwnguin: I'm 90% through, lemme see how it turns out
<jdong> internet's slow tonight
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, showing progress is not one of bzr's strong suites
<jdong> Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from '473b133e31b77e47.avi.mp4': Duration: 01:01:21.5, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 445 kb/s Stream #0.0(und): Video: h264, yuv420p, 320x240, 29.97 fps(r) Stream #0.1(und): Audio: aac, 44100 Hz, stereo
<jdong> pwnguin: ^^
<crimsun> hah.
<jdong> pwnguin: 4578ac613eaf177012a396453910b8a8  473b133e31b77e47.avi.mp4
<crimsun> well, good thing I forgot to use bazaar.lp instead of code.lp
<pwnguin> jdong: cool. im almost done grabbing it myself, and its much larger than last time =(
<RAOF> crimsun: Timeout error?
<crimsun> code.launchpad.net has address 91.189.90.244
<crimsun> bazaar.launchpad.net has address 91.189.94.254
<pwnguin> good signs, nautilus preview shows things
<RAOF> crimsun: Complete with huge uncaught backtrace?
<crimsun> I forgot that one can't push via sftp to code.lp
<jdong> RAOF: bzr+ssh:// is the infamous one for frightening errors for simple problems
<crimsun> RAOF: nah, "just a two-liner"
<jdong> I got a page-long traceback for when shared repo was locked.
<crimsun> saivann: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/gnucash/ubuntu/revision/crimsun%40ubuntu.com-20071119053212-hqog7l26mbmilcnc?start_revid=crimsun%40ubuntu.com-20071119053212-hqog7l26mbmilcnc
<crimsun> mm tasty URL
<jdong> indeed
<jdong> why is the same revision ID in the URL twice, loggerhead? :)
<saivann> crimsun : I don't know a lot about package uploading into ubuntu repositories, but since my debdiff only changes a value in debian/control, is it alright to use bazaar?
<crimsun> saivann: it's preferable to maintain the source packaging in bzr
<saivann> crimsun : Ok right, thanks for your help on this. Should I do something else or everything is finished?
<pwnguin> jdong: well, thanks for the attention. sorry i wasnt smarter at debugging it on my own
<pwnguin> jdong: as far as the new ffmpeg, what should i be looking at? working? working better?
<jdong> pwnguin: hehe, no problem, I've been guilty of that far more times
<jdong> pwnguin: first, just flat out working
<jdong> pwnguin: I'd also expect CPU usage while playing high-res H.264 to be significiantly lower
<pwnguin> not so much
<jdong> pwnguin: but right now I am mostly concerned about just no regressions as far as functionality
<pwnguin> darker than black def still runs like crap
<pwnguin> does gst-ffmpeg have priority on codec picking?
<jdong> pwnguin: I have no idea how gstreamer works... :(
<pwnguin> excellent :)
<jdong> pwnguin: I have a "if it is currently working, don't ask it questions or it'll anger the ffmpeg gods and stop working" mentality towrads the media stack
<crimsun> saivann: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2007-November/001751.html
<jdong> pwnguin: it has kept me alive so far
<crimsun> saivann: thanks!
<saivann> crimsun : Ha! Thank you very much for your help :)
<crimsun> np :)
<pwnguin> heh. im working on fixing liferea's mime type stuff myself. it will handle torrent subscriptions, or I'll die trying
<crimsun> saivann: to note, the syntax is defined at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClosingBugsFromChangelog
<superm1> jdong, you still messing around with x264 stuff tonight?
<jdong> superm1: I've uploaded all that is needed to be done into the ~motumedia PPA
<jdong> superm1: I just mangled gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg to use system ffmpeg and I think I'm gonna take a vacation from the media stack for a bit :D
<superm1> jdong, well i was just going to ask what role the x264 package plays with all these other ones
<superm1> i had thought that ffmpeg itself had some h264 handling already, and wasn't entirely sure what x264 was for then
<saivann> crimsun : Oh thanks, this type of information is always welcome :)
<jdong> superm1: x264 provides H.264 encoding services to mplayer (mencoder), avidemux, ffmpeg, and a few others
<superm1> oh encoding :)
<jdong> superm1: ffmpeg provides all H.264 *de*coding services to our media stack
<jdong> superm1: x264 has made a lot of progress since our last import to faster threading, faster encoding, and better quality output while threading since our last snapshot
<superm1> that explains it then, neat
<jdong> superm1: and since it's a very slow encoder to begin with any help is greatly appreciated :D
<superm1> at this point does it take advantage of multiple cores then?
<saivann> crimsun : I just want to make sure of one thing, this package has been uploaded to Hardy but not Gutsy, right?
<pwnguin> yea, mkvs are still unwatchable in totem =(
<jdong> superm1: yes, threading slices your video into $thread strips and encodes them independently
<pwnguin> donno if its the mkv or the high definition though
<jdong> superm1: since our snapshot they've improved on threading performance and sharing basic data with other threads to reduce noise on output
<superm1> jdong, yeah that's what i was assuming would have needed to be done
<jdong> superm1: not to mention retuned a bunch of calculation routines to be faster when using aggressive quality options
<jdong> superm1: so far it *seems* like they managed not to break any API's so we just need a rebuild
<superm1> hehe
<jdong> superm1: except avidemux which is in such a horribly abandoned state :-/
<superm1> jdong, that's really unfortunate to hear
<superm1> jdong, that was about the only GUI i knew about for encoding itmes
<superm1> items
<superm1> er GUI wrapper that is
<jdong> superm1: indeed it is. We need to get a new upstream release in, our current one can't be mangled for much longer
<jdong> superm1: there is a LP bug open and a REVU package sitting there of a new upstream version though
<jdong> bug #163287
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163287 in avidemux "avidemux 2.4 preview 3 (RC1)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163287
<crimsun> well, since we have the somewhat-dubious precedent of windows binaries in multiverse, one could punch some windows encoder
 * crimsun ducks
<jdong> superm1: I don't know the origin of his packaging but it looks like he chose to start from scratch rather than basing on marillat
<jdong> *shrugs*
<superm1> or even get say virtualdub into multiverse........
<jdong> superm1: how about we first get an ffmpeg that actually *encodes* into Ubuntu :-/
<superm1> jdong, well its good to see the effort has at least been started on avidemux this early
<superm1> jdong, so its not a UVF time second though
<jdong> right now we need to run over to medibuntu to have any chance of encoding stuff
<superm1> thought
<pwnguin> what windows binary got into multiverse?
<jdong> superm1: right, I'm happy to see his progress
<jdong> superm1: so I'm gonna ignore the x264 FTBFS with avidemux in hardy for now pending his work.
<jdong> a new version will solve everything
<jdong> no point in mangling a 2-year-old package for hours just to have it replaced in a few weeks
<superm1> yeah good point
<jdong> superm1: I'd love our LTS to go out with a fresh multimedia stack... currently I'm looking at how well ffmpeg builds against the new x264
<jdong> superm1: though we don't build it that way ourselves, medibuntu does and I'd like to do them the courtesy of dealing with any API migrations so we don't have delayed ffmpeg unlocked packages in Hardy :)
<superm1> jdong, what does medibuntu build differently about ffmpeg?
<jdong> superm1: a bunch more --enable-foo flags
<jdong> superm1: namely all the encoders that we're too chicken to ship
<superm1> jdong, i've always wondered why we can't enable more of that foo and put it in multiverse
<superm1> directly
<jdong> which is basically all the encoders
<jdong> superm1: I think the reason is that we want to promote ffmpeg to main
<superm1> or maybe instead have more binaries churned out the ffmpeg source package
<pwnguin> superm1: patents?
<jdong> and encoders would send us into multiverse
<superm1> and some end up in multiverse
<superm1> pwnguin, there is lame in multiverse
<superm1> pwnguin, and all apps linking against it
<jdong> pwnguin: patents aren't the issues....
<pwnguin> ok then
<jdong> pwnguin: all the stuff we are linking ffmpeg to is already in multiverse
<jdong> pwnguin: the problem is there's an agenda to promote ffmpeg to main
<jdong> and that's why we go with a no-encoders setup
<jdong> at least that's the last explanation I heard
<superm1> jdong, having the source in main and binaries in main/multiverse seems sensible enough though
<pwnguin> interesting question
<superm1> there are already source packages that do similar with main/universe at least
<pwnguin> are binary packages in pools, or are source packages?
<pwnguin> ie, can you split a source package into main and multiverse?
<jdong> superm1: true, but how the heck do you split out ffmpeg like that?
<jdong> superm1: it seems like massive surgical work that'll fork us from upstream too
<crimsun> pwnguin: source package must line in one component.  binary packages generated from said source package can straddle components.
<crimsun> s/line/lie/
<superm1> jdong, well you do two builds
<superm1> one with a bunch of --disable-foo
<superm1> and one with a bunch of --enable-foo
<superm1> and then you have a virtual package
<superm1> that depends on either the main or the multiverse variant
<jdong> superm1: dear lord that sounds like gtkpod vs gtkpod-aac
<superm1> jdong, but it would keep away from the necessity of having to use a third party repository
<superm1> which i would think there is a general push to do anyhow
<jdong> superm1: well we could just have an ffmpeg-multiverse type package
<jdong> superm1: that would be generated by a script that mangles ffmpeg with no source changes but ./configure flags
<jdong> superm1: that way we can probably convince archive managers it's not any harder to maintain security-wise
<superm1> well that is basically what it would be, but i think it'd be better to have a common source package
<jdong> superm1: are you allowed to have a source pacakge output things to different sections?
<superm1> jdong, yeah lirc does that
<superm1> and so does ubiquity
<superm1> archive admins make the call on where different binaries end up
<pwnguin> tons of things have different sections
<jdong> superm1: ok, I mean that'll work too
<saivann> crimsun : Is it normal that the bug report automatically set itself to fix released after the patch upload ?
<superm1> jdong, i just think it would become more of a mangement nightmare to have two source packages for the same thing
<superm1> when you are really just mangling stuff in the debian/ directory
<jdong> superm1: but yeah I don't think we should be relying on medibuntu for ffmpeg and k3b-mp3 both of which are just different buildflags with our source packages
<jdong> superm1: same with mp4 extensions to amarok...
<superm1> jdong, perhaps this proposition should be brought up on the motu mailing list
<jdong> superm1: would you like to do the honnors as my brain's already sleeping? :)
<superm1> jdong, and we can see what people think of doing things like the double build and different binaries in debian/rules and debian/control
<pwnguin> jdong: well, everything works that I've tried, but I did notice something weird. totem doesn't handle 7.1 audio correctly
<jdong> superm1: ffmpeg already fsckingb builds twice today AFAIK
<pwnguin> jdong: all the front channels go to the right it seems =(
<jdong> superm1: building it another time shouldn't be too bad
<superm1> jdong, sure, probably won't be for a few hours though.  i've got a paper that i should have started about 5 hours ago :)
<jdong> pwnguin: regression from bundled ffmpeg?
<pwnguin> jdong: lemme check.
<pwnguin> jdong: i doubt it though
<pwnguin> just general gst wtf-ness
<jdong> pwnguin: *whew* :)
<pwnguin> i usualyl just use mplayer for the HQ stuff
<pwnguin> i donno if its w32codecs or what but it seems to be a much smoother ride
<jdong> pwnguin: I just use mplayer. end of sentence ;-)
<pwnguin> mplayer's GUI is terrible
<pwnguin> and it doesnt stream from smb
<jdong> pwnguin: I'm CLI oriented anyway, I like invoking my media player from the terminal
<jdong> pwnguin: and smbfs/cifs mountpoints
<jdong> pwnguin: gnomevfs-cat | mplayer - works too
<jdong> pwnguin: player with its own SMB library is wrong abstraction level IMO
<pwnguin> totem's made pretty good progress, as has gst itself
<jdong> pwnguin: yeah GST is definitely a lot better than the first time I used it
<pwnguin> i imagine totem is just using the gnome vfs
<jdong> pwnguin: yeah, you're probably right
<jdong> pwnguin: we just need gvfs to be a fusefs too :)
<jdong> which I believe was discussed here a few days ago
<pwnguin> is that on the way to hardy?
<jdong> pwnguin: meh sounds like one of my crazy ideas
<jdong> so probably not ;-)
<pwnguin> yea, the audio is definately a ffmpeg problem
<pwnguin> i wonder if someone wanted to test this stuff without spending hardware
<crimsun> saivann: yes
<crimsun> saivann: that is part of the semantics for closing lp bugs from debian/changelog and why one must use that precise syntax for the header to be generated
<saivann> crimsun : That's great!
<saivann> crimsun : From now on, all fix that I've provided were modified and the uploader name was changed
 * crimsun -> bed
<saivann> crimsun : Good night
<SiCuTDeUx> Jai!
<SiCuTDeUx> i'm trying to build a package for linkage, a bittorrent client
<SiCuTDeUx> but it uses a libtorrent lib diferent from the one rtorrent uses...
<SiCuTDeUx> they are called the same...
<SiCuTDeUx> the libtorrent package exists on repos but its not the same that linkage uses
<SiCuTDeUx> what should i do>
<SiCuTDeUx> ?
<jdong> deluge uses the "other" libtorrent too AFAIK
<jdong> but deluge bundles an internal copy of this
<jdong> (gee bundling internal libs, this sounds familiar)
<LaserJock> jdong: heh
<SiCuTDeUx> jdong, familiar like... windows familiar?
<jdong> SiCuTDeUx: nah I was just working on a bug a few minutes ago with an ffmpeg bundling issue :)
<SiCuTDeUx> oh, ok.
<jdong> SiCuTDeUx: is your libtorrent the same thing as what Deluge uses?
<SiCuTDeUx> let me see
<SiCuTDeUx> yup
<jdong> rasterbar's?
<SiCuTDeUx> http://www.rasterbar.com/products/libtorrent/projects.html
<jdong> yep
<jdong> this is beyond my scope of expertise but probably you and the deluge maintainer can work out some way to share the library
<jdong> it's currently bundled inside deluge
<SiCuTDeUx> hm...
<SiCuTDeUx> iÂ´m new building packages so...
<SiCuTDeUx> i was trying to build striim
<jdong> this is a case where it's better to coordinate to avoid duplication
<SiCuTDeUx> it's an internet radio client for gnome
<RAOF> jdong: But there's already a libtorrent in the archives, right?  And libtorrent is meant to (in the not too distant futrue) be capable of supporting deluge.
<jdong> I'm personally not comfortable with the idea of two clients shipping the same library with themselves, unless they need special modifications or some other extenuating circumstance
<warp10> Hi all!
<jdong> RAOF: Rakshasa is merging with rasterbar?
<SiCuTDeUx> jdong, me neither... better talk to him
<RAOF> jdong: ??  I'm obviously mistaken.  I thought that deluge shipped it's own libtorrent because it required features that'd be in trunk real-soon-now(tm).
<jdong> RAOF: lol this is really confusing, let's see if I can state what I understand...
<pwnguin> hey, where are the example media files stored?
<jdong> RAOF: there is Libtorrent (rasterbar) and libTorrent (rakshasa). rtorrent uses the former, Deluge and his torrent client use the latter
<jdong> RAOF: I've understood them as completely different API's only sharing a similar name
<RAOF> Oh, great.
<jdong> RAOF: yeah, talk about confusing
<LaserJock> well they *are* capitalized differently ... shesh ;-)
<RAOF> Bittorrent *really* isn't that complicated.  Why can't they just implement it in python and be done with it.
<pwnguin> it is implemented in python...
<jdong> pwnguin: not anymore
<jdong> pwnguin: Bram chose to adopt uTorrent's codebase as the mainline client now
<pwnguin> oh?
<RAOF> And not DFSG-compliant, right?
<jdong> pwnguin: it is the end of python based bittorrent mainline
<StevenK> jdong: Twitch
<jdong> pwnguin: it's replaced with a closed source client now
<pwnguin> hurray
<jdong> with agreements iwth the MPAA/RIAA announced everywhere
<pwnguin> there's still bittornado?
<jdong> pwnguin: it's based off the obsolete and poor performing Bittorrent 3.x.x codebase
 * pwnguin usually uses azureus
<pwnguin> its a bit overkill
<jdong> bram now holds the power to fragment the torrent community by implementing some extension to Bittorrent.
 * RAOF sighs at the existance of "escape-string.cpp".
<jdong> now there won't even be a python souced program we can reverse-engineer
<pwnguin> jdong: and if he tries, the pirate bay declares war ;)
<jdong> DHT was implemented mostly by reverse engineering. Bram has demonstrated he sucks at writing specsheets
<jdong> the DHT "specs" were some of the vaguest protocol summaries I've ever read
<pwnguin> does transmission handle dht?
<jdong> pwnguin: yeah
<jdong> mainline-compatible DHT
<pwnguin> ive been meaning to try transmission out now that the desktop's running gutsy
<jdong> pwnguin: yeah 0.91 was just backported to gutsy and it's pretty slick
 * RAOF gapes.  Obviously no one has really read deluge-torrent's LICENSE file.
<jdong> RAOF: it's imported from debian so $theirfault right? :D
<RAOF> It's *upstream*'s, so it's Debian's and deluge's fault.
<jdong> what's wrong with their LICENSE?
<RAOF> Oh, it seemed to have boilerplate at the end.  Now that I read it more closely, it makes more sense.
<pwnguin> uh
<pwnguin> gplv2?
<RAOF> Yeah.  I obviously haven't read the last part of the full gplv2 license recently :)
<pwnguin> it doesnt diff cleanly with /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2, but thats mostly spacing and an openssl exception
<pwnguin> it's probably not smart to put the openSSL exception at the end
<pwnguin> whats the difference between h264 and h264 / avc?
<RAOF>  Marketing.
<jdong> pwnguin: terminology
<RAOF> Just like there's no difference between mpeg4 avc and h264.
<jdong> pwnguin: H.264 is MPEG-4 AVC
<jdong> pwnguin: just like "divx" is MPEG-4 ASP
<pwnguin> ok
<pwnguin> then its a bit wierd that totem reports them differently ;)
<jdong> pwnguin: urgh that's the predefined strings in the gst-ffmpeg package
<jdong> comes out of libavformat
<RAOF> They've probably got different 4CCs in the avi?
<jdong> so take it $upstream :)
<jdong> RAOF: no it depends on what container it's put in AFAIK what libavformat string it trips?
<RAOF> jdong: Fun.
<jdong> I just looked at this code like an hour ago, I'm ashamed I don't remember
<RAOF> I love ffmpeg: the hyper-fast, unusable multimedia library :P
<jdong> RAOF: meh you just have to keep up with svn and mailing lists ;-)
<jdong> RAOF: humorously while maintaining the SVN branch of my pypodconv script, I've often just used bzr to back out previous API changes to match current API in ffmpeg SVN
<jdong> they go back and forth between symbol names too
<dholbach> good morning
<jdong> morning :)
<jdong> actually 02:00 here, eep I have school tomorrow
<dholbach> hey jdong
<pwnguin> jdong: so far, nothing hasn't worked
<pwnguin> unfortunately, i appear to have lost my old GITS:SAC stuff that wouldn't play
<jdong> pwnguin: odd :-/
<jdong> pwnguin: did you remember to pay royalties to Apple?
<jdong> *ducks*
<pwnguin> ?
<jdong> for your playback of H.264 ;-)
<jdong> is it still free for personal use?
<pwnguin> no clue
<pwnguin> dont care ;)
<jdong> I think up to 2010
<jdong> technically
<pwnguin> besides, you're the one who said h264 :P
<pwnguin> oh, i guess i did mention asking what the difference between things was
<jdong> it's the crack I'm addicted to
<jdong> and I'm outta here before Hobbsee starts with that ;-)
<pwnguin> that gits stuff was h264 though. first one id ever seen
<nand`> hi!
<nand`> I have a question about the rules files : is there a way to know which version we are currently packaging? A variable?
<jdong> I think ${Source:Version}?
<jdong> don't quote me on that
<nand`> jdong: I try...
<nand`> jdong: nup
<nand`> jdong: it is for the control file IIRC
<nenolod> pidgin-mpris can now be archived. it's in debian. ;)
<jdong> oh the rules file
<jdong> oops sorry
<jdong> I'm an idiot. It's a good sign that I'm sleep deprived
<nenolod> (on revu)
<nand`> jdong: ;)
<LaserJock> jdong: go to bed!
<jdong> LaserJock: yes master!
<\sh> Fujitsu, thx for adding the hugin patch to hardy :)
<Hobbsee> jdong: i think it's s/S/s/ or s/Source/binary/.  check the new policy
<nand`> jdong: found a regex on the changelog for that.
<jdong> nand`: eep
<jdong> nand`: I was going to suggest that then shut myself up
<nand`> jdong: ;)
<nand`> jdong: you may check the aleph source pkg for it
<jdong> nand`: you should use dpkg-parsechangelog though IMO
<nand`> jdong: whoah. Another utility!
<jdong> nand`: dpkg-parsechangelog | grep '^Version' | sed 's/Version: //'
<jdong> nand`: dpkg-parsechangelog is a frontend to manually sedding the changelog file, which apparently is not recommended
<nand`> jdong: Ok thanks!
<nand`> jdong: We get the debian version, I'd like the upstream version. An idea for that?
<nand`> (apart from manually seding that)
<jdong> nand`: | awk -F- '{print $1}'
<jdong> do I get a hackjob trophy yet?
<nand`> jdong: nice :)
 * nenolod is working on first step of killing notification-daemon. Release plan for libaosd is set, and i've claimed ITP on the package in Debian. ;)
<nenolod> i like to call my in-progress spec "notification-daemon-sucks-lets-replace-it-with-something-better-in-hardy-plus-one"
<jdong> nand`: if you want to see some ugly changelog deforming go look at the source to prevu ;-)
<nand`> jdong: arrh. I'll fight and kick down mine first!
<nand`> and second question : should the get-orig-source target triggered automatically? Mine is not launched, and I don't see references to a call on other rules files.
<highvoltage> nxvl: pong
<superm1> congrats jdong
<nand`> or do you have to manually call make -f debian/rules get-orig-source before debuild ?
<LaserJock> jdong: congrats!
 * Hobbsee gives jdong a beaver.
 * nand` senses a MOTU nomination in the air...
<siretart> jdong: w0000t! you finally made it! congrats!
<\sh> jdong, at last :) congrats :)
<siretart> jdong: this effektively means you can do the x264 update in hardy yourself now :)
<StevenK> jdong: Congrats
 * Nafallo thinks jdong just got promoted :-)
<\sh> siretart, good to see you...where did you hide the old motu-tools bzr archive? :) I need our old lpbugs.py source
<Nafallo> jdong: congrats!
<siretart> \sh: good morning!
<siretart> \sh: errr, huh? - isn't it on launchpad somewhere?
<\sh> siretart, nope couldn't find it in the usual places...
<\sh> siretart, you know the really old script we used to file merges etc. via email
<siretart> \sh: I have it in my home directory here... hmm
<siretart> pushing it to lp now
<siretart> \sh: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~siretart/+junk/motu-tools is what I have
<siretart> it seems we managed it on tiber only. hm
<dholbach> filing a bug with py-lp-bugs is easy too
<siretart> \sh: we should really see what of that can be merged to ubuntu-dev-tools, however
<\sh> hmmm...I can't browse the source of this archive
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugHelper/Dev/python-launchpad-bugs/Bug?highlight=%28BugHelper%2FDev%29#head-27dc45b0392cc14364bd08fc4484df026122c91f
<siretart> \sh: give lp a few minutes
<dholbach> (or check out ppaput in ubuntu-dev-tools for an example)
<dholbach> or massfile
<siretart> dholbach: is that the page with the API of python-launchpad-bugs that you promised me?
<siretart> ;)
<\sh> oh damn...I would like to see our sources we sec-fix for old releases in a bzr branch...
<dholbach> siretart: that's examples of how to use py-lp-bugs API
<\sh> launchpad is silly...LP should know, that openldap2.2 is not in gutsy so therefore it should know that feisty/gutsy are not to be mentioned in the nominated click field
<\sh> and it should copy nominations when telling LP that it also affects different source packages from different releases...*grmpf*
<Hobbsee> \sh: --> bug.
<Hobbsee> \sh: sounds like a good one.
<\sh> s/should/shouldn't/
<\sh> Hobbsee, yeah...when I won the fight with openldap in 3 flavours (openldap2, 2.2 and 2.3) in 4 different releases (2,2.2 in dapper, edgy, 2.3 in feisty, gutsy) and uploaded all diffs..I'll file bugs against LP a lot
<Hobbsee> \sh: good man :)
<nenolod> what is needed for autosync to occur on a package in sid?
<nenolod> does it need to be in debian-testing if it's a new package?
<LaserJock> nenolod: what do you mean?
<LaserJock> autosyncs should occur up until Debian Import Freeze
<nenolod> well for instance, libprojectm entered debian unstable last week, and had never been in unstable before, will the sync pick it up?
<nenolod> :P
<LaserJock> sure
<nenolod> ah, so the sync just hasn't run yet
<nenolod> ok ;)
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how long it will take, but it'll show up somewhere
<LaserJock> if it's new to Debian then I think it goes to a different list than just updates of an existing package
<nenolod> yuck :P
<LaserJock> I imagine the archive admins like to take a look first before putting it in the archives
<nenolod> is there a page which highlights ubuntu's NEW queue?
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue
<LaserJock> but I don't think that shows autosync
<nenolod> it does show autosync
<LaserJock> nenolod: yeah?
<nenolod> yeah, there's a few packages that lack the ubuntu tag at the end
<nenolod> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10329451/jakarta-log4j_1.2.15-1_source.changes
<nenolod> Changed-By: Ubuntu Archive Auto-Sync <archive@ubuntu.com>
<nenolod> ;)
<nenolod> i think the fact that i went through that means i fail at life tbh ;)
<huats> morning everyone
<\sh> phew....
<\sh> feisty and gutsy done....2x dapper, 2x edgy to go...*gnarf*
<nenolod> LaserJock, if my package in debian goes into ubuntu NEW, do you think it will email me about it? :P
<LaserJock> nenolod: no
<nenolod> rats
<\sh> do we have something like #debian-security for ubuntu?
<LaserJock> \sh: sure, it's called keescook
<LaserJock> ;-)
<\sh> LaserJock, lol /join #keescook ,-)
<\sh> oh well, I wonder if kees is this kees cook which is in mplayers about box for credits...
<ajmitch> hi
<\sh> moins ajmitch
<Hobbsee> damn it, pkern.
<Fujitsu> \sh: That tasks existing where they shouldn't bug is filed.
 * Hobbsee wishes people post to the list *before* they flood the buglist.
<Fujitsu> It's because LP is braindead, and applies nominations to all distro tasks.
 * Fujitsu looks for the number.
<Hobbsee> was going to get him to tag it all as bitesize.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ^
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i presume you can do a bughelper query for that
<Fujitsu> Bug #110195
<ajmitch> the ftbfs bugs?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110195 in malone "Nomination for a release on one source package shouldn't affect any others" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110195
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes
<\sh> Fujitsu, cool...one bug less to file against LP
 * Fujitsu wonders why they would be bitesize.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's a dh_iconcache --> dh_icons switch only
<dholbach> Hobbsee: bughelper query for what?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: all these bugs pkern is filing.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: which bugs?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: see -bugs
 * Hobbsee --> dinner
<s1024kb> luisbg: hi, i am selene, nice to meet you!
<proppy> hi
<s1024kb> hi...
<proppy> s1024kb: I've seen your mail on the list: welcome !
<s1024kb> proppy: thanks!
<s1024kb> proppy: only me today, my friend maia will come thursday. :-)
<luisbg_> hello s1024kb =)
<s1024kb> luisbg_: hello! :-)
<luisbg_> how is all?
<s1024kb> i am still working on the first simple task given by my teacher - merging the package "yappy". only "gram-merge" it, not yet finish...
<DaveMorris> since it's revu day I've got 2 new packages on revu.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial and a slightly one which different people tell me different things - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<TheMuso> Does anybody have any comments about my questions in -devel?
<luisbg_> s1024kb, cool
<s1024kb> luisbg_: but... could you please tell me how to find out the changes which i should write them on the changelog file?
<dholbach> StevenK: can you put your desktop file script from MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles into ubuntu-dev-tools?
<dholbach> StevenK: I'd like to merge that page into the packaging guide
<luisbg_> hello dholbach =)
<dholbach> heya luisbg
<luisbg_> s1024kb, are you using mom or dad?
<dholbach> how's it going?
<luisbg_> dholbach, very good... catch up with work and now I'm back to ubuntu contributing =)
<luisbg_> dholbach, how are you?
<dholbach> NICE
<dholbach> all's good - I'm working on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/PackagingGuideMerge
<s1024kb> luisbg_: dad.
<luisbg_> dholbach, awesome!
<luisbg_> dholbach, when you need people to read and review the document, let me know
<luisbg_> s1024kb, never used dad but let me check
<LaserJock> anybody know of a fast way in Python to make a list be all 0s?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You want to create a list of 0s of arbitrary length?
<LaserJock> I know the lenght of the list
<LaserJock> I'm trying to "blank" the list
<s1024kb> luisbg_: what's the difference between mom and dad?
<dholbach> LaserJock:    a = [1,2,3,4,5,6]; print map(lambda b: 0, a)     ?
<luisbg_> s1024kb, different ways to "semi-automatize" merges
<luisbg_> s1024kb, anyway... do you know debdiff?
<\sh> s1024kb, dad has a nicer webpage then mom ;)
<s1024kb> luisbg_: yes. but never did it.
<luisbg_> \sh, are you familiar with dad?
<s1024kb> \sh: that's why i downloaded things there, :-)
<luisbg_> s1024kb, do a debdiff between ubuntu and debian versions
<\sh> luisbg, tbh I use dad only for add bug reports to it
<luisbg_> \sh, can you help s1024kb with here changes question?
<\sh> luisbg, it works like mom, different grab-merge script of course
<s1024kb> luisbg_: did the script "grab-merge" did that for me already?
<luisbg_> s1024kb, it should =)
<\sh> s1024kb, sometimes yes, sometimes no...you have to manually review the changes between debian and ubuntu
<luisbg_> LaserJock, hey Jordan!
<s1024kb> \sh: i know, but i just want to know HOW to review them? I must compare 2 files then i can find out the difference, right? but which files?
<LaserJock> luisbg_: hello
<luisbg_> s1024kb, debian/changelog should be a good start
<luisbg_> check for debian changes after the previous ubuntu merge
<s1024kb> luisbg_: i had read it already. but... seems that the script had written all the changes on the changelog, that's why i don't know how to do.
<\sh> s1024kb, 1. if debian applied some patches from ubuntu, or fixed bugs, which ubuntu fixed separatly, forget the ubuntu change...
<\sh> 2. if there are other things fixed, or changed because of distro specific stuff, please merge the changes into actual debian package..and merge the complete changelog...
<s1024kb> \sh: okay. could you please tell me an example "what to do"? after doing "grab-merge" with the script, i can see that a lot of files in my folder, but don't know what to do next.
<\sh> 3. if there are only bugfixes, which are already fixed through a new upstream version of debian, or the debian maintainer fixed them in a new upload to debian, and there are no other changes left from ubuntu, it more likely that we have a sync
<\sh> s1024kb, check debian/changelog...
<\sh> s1024kb, check the REPORT file
<s1024kb> \sh: yes, i had checked them both.
<\sh> s1024kb, so you see the changes from ubuntu in the changelog and the newly fixed stuff from debian
<\sh> s1024kb, now compare the two and decide if it's more a sync or a merge, if a merge, use the changes the last ubuntu uploader made, and check them in the merged mom/dad sourcetree (mostly, packagename-<version>-<debianrevision>ubuntu<ubunturevision>)
<s1024kb> \sh: yes, i can see them both in the changelog.
<\sh> s1024kb, on which package you are working and are you working with mom or dad?
<s1024kb> \sh: not very understand "a sync", my bad English...
<s1024kb> \sh: dad, because i downloaded the things there. i see a package list there and then i can download the one i want.
<\sh> s1024kb, a sync is, when ubuntu uploaded a package with ubuntu changes, so it won't catched by our autosync bot, which means, we have to decide, if we merge (means uploading the new upstream version with ubuntu changes) , or sync (means giving the archive maintainers a hint, that they push this package manually to their sync script and grabbing the new package from debian, without any ubuntu changes, and all ubuntu changes dropped)
<\sh> s1024kb, which packages?
<\sh> s1024kb, let's try to do it together
<s1024kb> \sh: thank you very much!!
<s1024kb> \sh: yappy
<luisbg_> thanks \sh
<luisbg_> =)
<\sh> s1024kb, ok...first, there are no conflicts in the REPORT...which means mostly that debian upstream applied all changes we made...which is a good thing
<s1024kb> \sh: yes
<dholbach> LaserJock: did you have luck with your python bits?
<s1024kb> luisbg_: thank you too. i will record all the things i learn from here and send them to my friend maia too...
<\sh> s1024kb, ok...now we check the debian/changelog in the source tree (cd yappy-1.8)
<s1024kb> \sh: okay, open it already
<luisbg_> s1024kb, you can be her teacher too
<\sh> s1024kb, ok..now you see for the ubuntu upload the following:
<\sh>     - Remove pycompat file
<\sh>     - Add pyversions file
<\sh>     - Remove dh_python from debian/rules
<\sh>     - debian/control:
<\sh>       + Bump python-support version to >= 0.5.3
<\sh>       + Update maintainer per spec
<s1024kb>  luisbg_: yes, i wish that more and more new packagers become stronger...
<s1024kb> \sh: yes, see it.
<\sh> s1024kb, ok, let's go for the removed pycompat...
<LaserJock> dholbach: yes thanks, that did the trick
<dholbach> LaserJock: ok super
<\sh> s1024kb, you check debian/ dir, and you see, pycompat is there again...which means, right now, it's not a sync, it's a merge, because bddebian removed it, and had a reason for it
<s1024kb> \sh: okay
<\sh> s1024kb, which means, remove debian/pycompat
<luisbg_> s1024kb, we wish the same (more new and strong packagers in ubuntu)
<\sh> s1024kb, now bddebian added debian/pyversions, which gladly dad added to debian/ dir, again
<\sh> s1024kb, this file you leave in the debian/ dir
<s1024kb> luisbg_: thanks for your understanding, :-)
<luisbg_> LOL
<s1024kb> \sh: okay. (after thinking for quite a while...)
<\sh> s1024kb, now...barry added the following line to debian/changelog: - Remove dh_python from debian/rules
<\sh> this is a bit tricky
<\sh> s1024kb, when dad was working correctly you can see the change, in this type, that you don't see dh_python anymore in debian/rules
<\sh> s1024kb, so, we have to check the following file: yappy_1.8-3ubuntu1.patch
<POX_> if you remove dh_python from debian/rules, debian/pycompat is not needed
<POX_> CDBS is still calling it
<\sh> s1024kb, in this file you can see the diffs between 1.8-3 version of debian and the merge of dad to 1.8-3ubuntu1
<\sh> POX_, yepp
<\sh> s1024kb, so, in this patch file you can see this diff:
<\sh> --- yappy-1.8/debian/rules
<\sh> +++ yappy-1.8/debian/rules
<\sh> @@ -51,7 +51,6 @@
<\sh>         dh_compress -X.py -X.pdf
<\sh>         dh_fixperms
<\sh>         dh_pysupport
<\sh> -       dh_python
<\sh>         dh_installdeb
<\sh>         dh_shlibdeps
<\sh>         dh_gencontrol
<\sh> which means, debian upstream has still dh_python in its debian/rule file, but we don't have it...so it's automagically removed from the actual source tree...which means, the change is still valid
<\sh> (for the others...sorry to flood the channel....)
<\sh> s1024kb, till here...any questions?
<s1024kb> \sh: ... still thinking and following...
<s1024kb> \sh: by the way, can we talk sometimes via e-mail? especially for those questions which could bother others on the channel...
<dholbach> effie_jayx: I love your MOTU diary on the wiki - you should blog each of those posts!
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  I though I could do that after four lessons... but I don't know how much spam that would mean to people
<effie_jayx> I just finished debdiffs
<effie_jayx> and I love the tools
<s1024kb> \sh: understand so far.
<dholbach> effie_jayx: great work!
<dholbach> effie_jayx: it wouldn't spam people, but if you want to just blog about every n-th 'lesson', that's cool too :)
<effie_jayx> dholbach, meh ... nah.. I am just foloing the leader
<effie_jayx> I was kinda hoping people would also tell me of more stuff  I might be missing
<\sh> s1024kb, jabber is my favorite :)
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  I shall blog more about it then
<dholbach> effie_jayx: take your time, it's just great to see what you're doing
<s1024kb> \sh: may i send you e-mails?
<\sh> s1024kb, sure...
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  thanks for the support
<dholbach> effie_jayx: thank YOU :)
<\sh> s1024kb, but we are through :)
<\sh> s1024kb, the other change:     - debian/control:
<\sh>       + Bump python-support version to >= 0.5.3
<\sh>       + Update maintainer per spec
<s1024kb> \sh: jabber? something like MSN? not having one... okay, so this time let's do it here
<\sh> s1024kb, is also still valid...so you can see in debian/control the updated python-support version, and the Maintainer: and XSBC-Original-Maintainer line
<\sh> s1024kb, jabber is the best IM on earth :) yes...jabber.org, google talk or what every jabber server you want :)
<\sh> s1024kb, so, summary: all changes from ubuntu are still valid..if dad is working correctly, all changes are applied in the actual sourcetree
<s1024kb> \sh: i have only MSN at the moment, i will apply one if necessary. :-) my MSN: selene-lee@hotmail.com
<\sh> s1024kb, which means, you dch -a now and add all remaining ubuntu changes (which you can c & p from the last ubuntu upload) to the last changelog entry generated by dad...
<s1024kb> \sh: okay, i will copy the chat record and do it at home, after read them carefully. is it convenient to tell my your e-mail address?
<\sh> s1024kb, when you added the remaining ubuntu changes to the last dad generated changelog entry, you save the debian/changelog, and debuild -S -v1.8-2ubuntu1
<\sh> s1024kb, with this you generated a new .dsc and .diff.gz file
<\sh> s1024kb, go one dir up, and pbuilder build yappy_1.8-3ubuntu1.dsc
<\sh> s1024kb, if everything is ok, no ftbfs or whatever will happen, you just call debdiff yappy_1.8-3.dsc yappy_1.8-3ubuntu1.dsc > yappy_1.8-3ubuntu1.debdiff
<\sh> s1024kb, which will generate a debian diff file between the new debian upstream version (1.8-3) and the newly merged ubuntu version (1.8-3ubuntu1)
<s1024kb> \sh: okay, understand so far...
<\sh> s1024kb, this debdiff you attach to the bug report for the merge, which you have to create
<\sh> s1024kb, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug
<\sh> s1024kb, and add the bug report to the yappy package on the DAD page
<\sh> (bug report == lp bug number)
<\sh> s1024kb, then you have to wait for a sponsor and if everything is ok, you'll see your name on hardy-changes later on
<s1024kb> \sh: okay.
<\sh> s1024kb, and add those stuff to your list of work on your wiki page...which is important to document what you did for the motu group...so in no time you are a motu and don't have to rely on any sponsor ;)
<s1024kb> \sh: yes, just waiting for that day comes... ;-)
<s1024kb> \sh: by the way, how can i send you e-mails?
<\sh> s1024kb, check my lp page: https://launchpad.net/~shermann/
<\sh> s1024kb, sh at sourcecode dot de
<\sh> s1024kb, but you can also redirect your questions to ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com so everyone even the hopefuls can learn from all the questions :)
<s1024kb> \sh: thank you very much! and i have to say thank you for my friend too - who is a beginner also and studying together with me... :-)
<\sh> s1024kb, and get a jabber account ;) the most easy one is to apply for a gmail account which is also a jabber account :)
<s1024kb> \sh: okay, i will! what a happy day! thank you!:-D
<\sh> s1024kb, no thank you for working on ubuntu :)
<s1024kb> \sh: oh... your words made me feel kind of guilty - i am learning too slow, and i am too busy with my work in office and having too little time for the Ubuntu work... but i will work hard and never give up. My friend also! Thank you for your help and encouragement!
<bigon> dholbach: any objection in syncing empathy?
<dholbach> bigon: um - I'd need to look at the diff
<dholbach> bigon: we seem to have different conflicts/replaces than they do?
<dholbach> bigon: you did the merge last time, so you should know best :)
<bigon> dholbach: two thing would be lost, telepathy-core in suggests and telepathy-gabble in depends (not so important since recommends are now installed by default)
<bigon> dholbach: the conflict thing are now the same in debian
<dholbach> bigon: are they in Ubuntu?
<bigon> they should be in hardy
<s1024kb> \sh, luisbg_: bye my friends, thank you very much!
<dholbach> bigon: if that's all the case, we can sync it from debian
<bigon> ok
<nand`> Hi! I'd like a review of my package ike please http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ike  (Everything should be ok now)
<soren> nand`: You don't need to b-d on sed and grep. They're considered essential (they have Essential: yes), so they'll always be present.
<nand`> soren: Ah ok, I was not sure...
<soren> nand`: np :)
<nand`> didn't know about the Essential field
<persia> nand`: It's best practice to have a version number like 2.3.3+dfsg when repacking.  I don't know if it's a blocking issue for everyone, but I prefer warning when there is a repack.
<nand`> persia: Yeah I have read about that, but was not sure where to put this. I will correct that too.
<persia> nand`: When you make the orig.tar.gz, call it ike_2.0.3+dfsg.orig.tar.gz, and use the version in your changelog.  Then everything works.
<nand`> persia: you mean I keep the current version in changelog, only change the orig file version?
<persia> nand`: Change it both places.
<nand`> persia: ok
<frenchy> Greeting MOTUs and MOTUettes, I ask you kindly to please review my newly uploaded version of Me TV?  I'm still awaiting my first advocate.  See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=707.
<persia> frenchy: That's a lovely advertisement :)
<frenchy> persia: Thanks, I got a few pointers from a friend.
<frenchy> ;)
<Hobbsee> uh oh, revu day
<persia> frenchy: I'd suggest you clean up the posted lintian and linda warnings before seeking formal review.  It should be as easy as deleting some files in your clean:: rule, and copying /usr/share/misc/config.sub and config.guess in makebuilddir/me-tv::
<persia> Hobbsee: You're exempt from REVU day: don't complain :)
<Hobbsee> persia: woot!
<Hobbsee> excellent!
<frenchy> persia: I think that they are legitimate errors.  I wasn't previously running ./autogen.sh before making the orig.tar.gz.  Doing so obviously has changed a few things.  Thanks for spotting that.
<Hobbsee> hi joejaxx
<Hobbsee> er, hi jono
<jono> hey Hobbsee
<persia> frenchy: No problem.  I'd suggest always checking the upload page once you make an upload, just in case.  The latest linda and lintian are usually backported to REVU in short order, just to make sure that they are providing the best feedback.
<frenchy> persia: I have a confession to make ... I cheated and let anjuta do everything for me.  Hopefully, 1) I can get anjuta to do what you're asking, or 2) Fix all the issues so I don't get errors/warnings.
<persia> frenchy: Are you upstream also?
<frenchy> persia: I guess I am.
<frenchy> ha, I've never thought of myself as upstream.
<persia> frenchy: Just delete config.sub, config,guess, and config.log in your clean: rule in Makefile.in (if I remember correctly), and add the ones you need in the packaging.
<superm1> frenchy, its king a cool feeling eh? :)
<superm1> s/king/kind/
<frenchy> superm1: I don't know ... the pressure man, the pressure.
<frenchy> !
<persia> DktrKranz: How do you feel about bug #158252?  Should it be uploaded, or do you also want to wait until the other releases get investigated so we don't forget about it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158252 in dspam "dspam won't start:  /var/run/dspam missing in tmpfs" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158252
<DktrKranz> persia, I looked at it briefly and I noticed a bad behaviour only when running /etc/init,d/dspam stop ("dspam is not started", while it is). If I haven't overlooked the real main issue, it should be ready for upload.
<DktrKranz> anyway, a TEST CASE should be listed since there are some easy operation to do to test it
<persia> DktrKranz: OK.  I was holding off mostly based on your last comment requesting investigation for dapper, edgy and feisty.  If you're not worried we'll lose it, I'll take another test, and reupload.
<persia> (and that too :) )
<DktrKranz> I ran a quick test on Feisty (work prevented me to test on Edgy and Dapper), but it seems affected too
<persia> DktrKranz: Makes sense.  I'll open a feisty task so we don't lose it, and take care of gutsy.  That way the bug is still open, and one of us might catch blueyed later.
<frenchy> persia: It uses automake ... doh.
<DktrKranz> persia, Thanks. I'll do some more tests in Edgy and Dapper, I'll ping blueyed to make sure we're aware of the real matter
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<nand`> Little things corrected! I'd like a review of ike please : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ike
<persia> nand`: Just an aside: you might want to look at sed s/foo/bar/p to save on grep next time :)  Not important at all, and no need to fix it unless you are doing something else.
<nand`> persia: I admit, I was quite lazy here to open my sed book and merge the two seds ;)
<nand`> and the grep too
<persia> nand`: Next time (I still need to look in more detail).
<nand`> persia: Ok thanks.
 * DktrKranz looks at the u-u-s queue and cheers at the only one outstanding bug \o/
<persia> DktrKranz: I'm waiting to hear back from asac on that one: I don't really understand the commend without an upload.
<DktrKranz> additionally, there is some configure cruft I think can be omitted
<french> Am I still connected?
<frenchy> Did that work?
<frenchy> Hooray, I'm frenchy again!
<persia> frenchy: It worked before, and you are now (to some subset)
<frenchy> persia: Was that just me or did things go funny here?
<persia> frenchy: There was a interruption in interserver communication, which has now been resolved.
<rexbron> hey persia
<persia> hey rexbron
<rexbron> persia: I have uploaded a fixed version of genpo to revu. The get-orig-source rule should work now
<frenchy> Reposting my question, apologies if you already got it ...
<frenchy> On http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=707, jpatrick mentioned 'You may want to put a "Homepage: " after SV in control'.  But there's no mention of the field at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html.  Can someone please explain?
<persia> rexbron: Great, I'll take a look when I've finished my current worklist, but if you've not in a while, you may get a better response with a general advertisement.
<rexbron> frenchy: Homepage is a new addition to the spec from discussion of the debian ml
<persia> frenchy: That's a bug in policy, which should be resolved soon.
<rexbron> frenchy: the documentation will be updated to reflect those changes
<rexbron> persia: Will do
<frenchy> Is this a bug to? dpkg-source: warning: unknown information field 'Homepage' in input data in general section of control info file.  Use of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at /usr/bin/dpkg-source line 342.
<rexbron> frenchy: yes, dpkg-source and linda/lintian need to be updated. You can ignore that
<persia> frenchy: You might want to build in a hardy chroot.  I'm not sure if the gutsy tools expect that.
<frenchy> Yeah, thought that might be the case ... thanks.
<rexbron> Hey everyone! Looking for a review, I have just the ticket: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo
<frenchy> Is it a big issue if I just don't put it in.  I don't really have a proper homepage yet.
<rexbron> frenchy: it is the homepage for the project
<rexbron> That url used to be included in the description
<persia> frenchy: If you don't have a homepage yet, it's not a big deal, but you should have a homepage, if only somewhere people can download the tarball.  Have you selected a code host yet?
<frenchy> That'd be LP.
<rexbron> persia: Am I mistaken as to the purpose of the Homepage: field?
<persia> frenchy: Then it might be the LP project page :)
<persia> rexbron: Not at all, frenchy is special, because frenchy is also upstream.
<frenchy> persia: It is currently.
<rexbron> oh lol
<frenchy> rexbron: Don't listen to me I'm a real noob.
<frenchy>  ... at packaging
<zul> morning
<frenchy> I've written this crazy script that svn export, make dist, mv tar.gz to .. orig.tar.gz, copied debian/ in then dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot ... surely there's a better way to do this.  Anyone?
<frenchy> I'll take that as a no?
<persia> frenchy: I'd suggest not hosting debian/ in anjuta.  Maintain your upstream package cleanly for adoption by any distro, and keep debian/ separate (stored in the diff.gz).
<persia> frenchy: Once you have a sane diff.gz, you can usually apply it to an updated upstream (if there are no patches) with `zcat ../mypackage_version-revision.diff.gz | patch -p1`
<\sh> siretart, which license did you took for lpbugs.py? should we explicitly say it's gplv2 or bsd lic?
<persia> Then, if you update the changelog, and make any other required adjustments, `debuild -S -sa` will generate the right updated diff.gz and .dsc files.
<siretart> \sh: I'm happy to duallicense it GPL+bsd, at the user's option. read: I don't care
<\sh> siretart, ok...I just wanted to be sure, that the lic statement on top wasn't  subject to be changed ;)
 * Hobbsee wishes people *wouldnt* do crackful things.
<frenchy> persia: That's what I do.  Even though it is in svn, I actually move it out when I do the make dist.  Then put it back in for the dpkg-buil...
<persia> frenchy: You might want to look at svn-buildpackage, which may help you.
<frenchy> persia: Apart from that are you telling me that there's about 7 manual steps that everyone is doing  ... svn-buildpackage ... I'll look at that thanks.
<persia> frenchy: mostly, yes.
<\sh> what is the irc tag of our envy developer?
<norsetto> \sh You mean Milone?
<persia> I'd like a second opinion on licensing.  I'm looking at a package, and it contains lots of notes "Copyright $copyright_holder, All Rights Reserved" directly prior to the preamble of a permissive GPL-compatible free license.  Is this OK?
<\sh> norsetto, yepp
<norsetto> \sh tseliot
<StevenK> persia: Linda is licensed the same way
<persia> StevenK: Good enough for me.  Thanks.
<\sh> norsetto, thx
<proppy> hi
<persia> nand`: Are you expecting upstream to release 2.0.3 soon?
<nand`> persia: Well, upstream is waiting for the packaging go to release it :)
<nand`> persia: I think a few repackages of its 2.0.2 version had made him more cautious...
<persia> nand`: OK.  Just wanted to make sure, as otherwise I'd complain about your watch file.  Advocating now.
<nand`> persia: yeah!
<nand`> nand`: thanks again for your help!
<nand`> uh
<nand`> persia: I have two more questions if you don't mind :
<persia> nand`: Which are they?
<nand`> persia: what is the procedure if upstream release a new version? Do I have to re go through REVU, or is there another process?
<nxvl> hi folks!
<nxvl> norsetto: did you recieve my mail?
<norsetto> nxvl: yes, its being worked on
<nxvl> norsetto: thnx :D
<persia> nand`: Writing a clean one is currently on my todo list :)  Currently, there are three ways that it works: you can package the new version, and submit to REVU, you can package the new version, and submit an interdiff to the sponsors queue, or you can package the new version in a dget'able location and request a sponsor.  I prefer reviewing interdiffs.
<nand`> persia: Well, I'm also planning to follow the packaging to debian, so it would simplify. I just wonder how if works with ubuntu-only  packages.
<nand`> persia: interdiff : a diff of two diffs? nice!
<persia> nand`: There's not a big difference between the processes for Ubuntu-local packages and packages merged from an external source, except that we can't take advantage of the new upstreams somewhere else for local packages, and have to do them ourselves.
<nxvl> norsetto: what i think i need is someone who helps me find bugs to work on, not so how working on them, i can read an learn that :D
<dfiloni> hi!
<persia> nxvl: What kind of bugs do you like?
<dfiloni> persia: yesterday I've updated wxwidgets2.8 package
<persia> dfiloni: I saw that, but haven't had a chance to look in depth.  At first glance it looked good: unless I find something major, I'll upload it.
<dfiloni> thanks persia
<nxvl> persia: i like python and networking a lot, but since most of the services are on main, i think python :D i have already as for a mentor, that's why i'm giving norsetto a little more info about what i'm looking :P
<nxvl> s/looking/looking for/
<persia> nxvl: I'd recommend subscribing to the bug listings for a few python packages: that way you get an email when someone opens a bug.
<nxvl> persia: yes, i've think on that but the hard think is to find those packages
<persia> nxvl: For python, you can get a decent list of packages that might be interesting with `apt-cache rdepends python-central` or `apt-cache rdepends python-support`
<nxvl> oh! i wil try that when i have a ubuntu on hands, now i'm on the university :P
<persia> rexbron: genpo advocated.
<rrittenhouse> Are there any major memory leaks in Trackerd or evolution ? For some reason my friends Gutsy machine here at work is responding to mouse movement but its consuming all 7.7GB of ram and the swap file
<rrittenhouse> He did his updates yesterday - he also noticed trackerd is running when this happens and evolution was updated
<persia> rrittenhouse: You might find more people likely to be familiar with current bugs reported in #ubuntu-bugs.  I remember seeing something about tracker, but I don't remember the details.
<rrittenhouse> ty
<Alfonsodg> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> Alfonsodg: pong
<Alfonsodg> dholbach: can we use priv please?
<dholbach> Alfonsodg: sure
<rexbron> persia: thanks :)
<rexbron> Hey everyone! Genpo now has one ack and I looking for another: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo
<bddebian> Heya gang
<rexbron> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi rexbron
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<nand`> This little package has also got his first ack and is waiting to take off! Could someone check at it please? Thanks! http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ike
<nand`> bddebian: Sorry, I don't remember, was it you who tried to package scorched3d?
<mathiaz> soren: I've uploaded on new squid package.
<mathiaz> soren: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mathiaz/packages/
<bddebian> nand`: I am working with Fuddl on the Debian Games team on it yes
<bddebian> Is Applications/Sound valid in a Debian menu?
<nand`> bddebian: So did you find what was wrong last time?
<bddebian> nand`: It works on i386 but he is still having issues on amd64 :(
<nand`> bddebian: ah :/
<persia> bddebian: Applications/Sound is good.  lintian in sid or hardy and linda in hardy understand the new menu structure.
 * persia accepts a poke about a game, and has it *really* close to the top of the list now
<bddebian> persia: Ah, OK, thx
<bddebian> persia: Did you see that about scorched3d?
<persia> bddebian: Wasn't that the poke?
<bddebian> Oh, heh, no I was just answering nand` 's questions :)
<persia> bddebian: Maybe, but I feel guilty enough to have put you off so long that I feel poked anyway: I just want to finish interdiffs and libopenal first :)
<persia> dfiloni: I'm having trouble test-building.  I won't get it up tonight, but it looks good.
<dfiloni> pesia: please send me a message when you upload the package or if you find a problem
<persia> dfiloni: OK.
<gnomefreak> can someone ack/comment on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=iceape and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=lightning-sunbird  On the iceape package i was told to ignore it by 2 people in here over the weekend (cant remember who) but source has right name ect.
<jdong> whooooo!! Just checked my e-mail! thanks everyone!
<gnomefreak> jdong: you can unsubscibe to bug i subscribed to you
<gnomefreak> you to
 * gnomefreak was having a stuck on stupid few minutes during replying on that bug
<jdong> gnomefreak: I'm guessing once I start checking my bugmail I'll know what you're talking about :)
<gnomefreak> yep :)
<gnomefreak> sorry cant rmemeber bug number
<bddebian> jdong: Congrats!
<zul> jdong: congrats about freaking time ;)
<geser> jdong: congrats!
<bddebian> rexbron: genpo uploaded
<jdong> bddebian, zul, geser, thanks so much!
<Zelut> anyone have suggestions on where I can find tips on the preinst, prerm etc?
<rexbron> bddebian: Thanks!
<jdong> slomo: poke, sorry if I tripped one of your annoyance bones with gst-ffmpeg; you're the expert on it and I'll back off :)
<DktrKranz> Zelut: you can try on www.debian.org/devel
<rexbron> bddebian: Should I set the bug report to fix commited or wait until it leaves the NEW queue?
<james_w> Hi, when doing a sync of a package that has a -0ubuntu1 version, is it important to check that the .orig.tar.gz matches the one for the -1 in Debian?
<bddebian> rexbron: Fix committed should be OK, then Fix Released when/if it gets through ;-)
<bddebian> james_w: Yes
<jdong> how do you pass the -v required for merges into debuild -S?
<jdong> I've tried shoving -v into a lot of places but debuild seems to happily ignore
<james_w> jdong: doesn't it just work to pass it, i.e. debuild -S -v01?
<jdong> james_w: ok maybe I'm just being retarded, lemme try again :)
<james_w> bddebian: guess I got lucky then, thanks. I'll update the wiki page.
<jdong> james_w: ok, PEBKAC, thanks :D
<jdong> slomo: poke #2: Do you have intentions to import mpeg4ip from debian-multimedia to provide libmp4v2 in Hardy after the faad2 merge?
<CyberMatt> hello
<emgent> norsetto, !!!
<norsetto> emgent: hi there
<CyberMatt> i have a rather odd situation here
<jdong> CyberMatt: try talking to her honestly and I'm sure you two can work it out
<jdong> oh wait this insn't #relationship-therapy
<CyberMatt> see i have this package i rather foolishly sent to debian mentors instend of revu
<CyberMatt> and i've had enough of debian
<CyberMatt> they don't seem to understand that i have a visual imparement so i need help with Makefiles
<CyberMatt> so can i get it off mentors and on revu without pissing people off
<jdong> hmm I wonder who here does work on debian mentors
<jdong> for now I'd say just stick it on revu
<jdong> and deal with removing from debian mentors separately
<CyberMatt> ok
<CyberMatt> thanks
<james_w> if you just ignore it there it will be removed eventually.
<jdong> no, thank you for contributing :)
<CyberMatt> and another will anybody here snark at me for using cdbs
<CyberMatt> all i said was it looked like it would be easier to do with my vision and ...
<CyberMatt> big issue
<james_w> CyberMatt: did you get the original problem fixed?
<james_w> CyberMatt: is it libpam-paperauth?
<CyberMatt> yes
<CyberMatt> doesn't build
<james_w> CyberMatt: the error looks odd to me. I can't immediately see what is causing it.
<CyberMatt> i know that the problem is because it doesn't have the directorys to cp into
<james_w> CyberMatt: yes, but I can't see that there is a 'cp' in the command that is failing.
<CyberMatt> or somthing odd like that but when i create the dirs in Makefile it fails with a premission error
<james_w> CyberMatt: it looks like it is just printing the intended destination file, meaning that it would try and execute it.
<CyberMatt> odd as heck lets see what we can *see*
<james_w> CyberMatt: do you have your work in progress source package that I poke at myself?
<CyberMatt> i do
<CyberMatt> should i just revu it
<james_w> CyberMatt: I guess that would work.
<\sh> re
<persia> dfiloni: You're (perhaps) lucky.  I didn't get to sleep, and took another look.  I'm concerned about WX_CONFIG="/opt/wx/current/bin/wx-config --toolkit=gtk2 --unicode=yes --version=2.8 2>/dev/null ", as we don't usually install it in /opt.  (reference is in wxPython/wx/build/build_options.py).
<CyberMatt> hang on problem with gpg
<CyberMatt> ok its up
<CyberMatt> should probably report a bug against seahorse as well
<CyberMatt> because not letting me paste my 32 char passphrase and then crashing gpg is a bug
<jdong> err.. having your passphrase on a clipboard is a not wise idea....
<jdong> even Java applets in a web browser can obtain clipboard contents
<CyberMatt> i clear when i am done
<jdong> the point of an agent like seahorse is to act as a secure clipboard for your passphrase though
 * persia agrees that pasting passphrases should be prohibited, although GPG crashing is definitely a bug.
<jdong> yeah, do file the GPG bug
<CyberMatt> it didn't crash exactly but when i disabled seahorse it would fail with an Unknowan error
<dfiloni> persia: now I'm here
<CyberMatt> i should change my passphrase though rightnow its my cats name fallowed by a random 32 characters that are stored on i flashdrive dedicated to this purpose
<CyberMatt> something i know and something i have
<persia> CyberMatt: Something you know and something you have is good.  Explaining what those are in a publically logged channel is less so :)
<dfiloni> persia: do you think I should edit wxPython/wx/build/build_options.py file?
<CyberMatt> changeing it now so if anyone could ever guess the 32 chars
<persia> dfiloni: It looks like it was changed in 2.8.4.0-0ubuntu3.  If you want to do a patch system instead, I won't complain.  You might also want to look at wxPython/src/wx.pth.  I think the gtk stuff is all upstream, but it might be worth another check.
<jdong> persia: +1 :D
<dfiloni> persia: I'm looking current version of the package
<persia> CyberMatt: I suspect the characters are limited to the lower 7 ascii bits, and I could likely even find 6 bits if careful.  32^64 isn't that big, and my computer counts fast :)
<james_w> CyberMatt: on line 917 of 'Makefile' is the problem.
<persia> dfiloni: lsdiff -z wxwidgets2.8_2.8.4.0-0ubuntu3.diff.gz might help point out places to check.
<james_w> CyberMatt: I'm going to eat, but I'll work out where that comes from after.
<jdong> persia: they keys are strengthened though ;-)
<dfiloni> persia: thanks
<CyberMatt> ill salt it
<persia> jdong: ?  I have the code, it's just brute force, if I have the secret.  The model is typically that the secret key is the something you have, and the e.e. cummings poem transliterated into 31337 is the something you know.
<jdong> persia: the passphrase is hashed then the hash is hashed, etc recursively like ~2000 times. It makes brute forcing by passphrase search take significantly longer than a traditional one-hash-cycle passphrase
<CyberMatt> persia, you could break into my house and steal the flashdrive look at my cats id tag
<jdong> persia: AFAIK it's easier/faster to search through the length of the hashed key than to iterate through passwords, unless the password is extremely trivial
<persia> jdong: True.  Still dangerous to be a pronounceable word followed by the contents of electronic storage (especially pasted electronic storage)
<jdong> persia: agreed :)
<jdong> persia: it's far more dangerous that the data is at one part on the X clipboard, which is fairly accessible data by any application that happens to be running at the time
<persia> CyberMatt: Right.  That's what I'm saying: I don't need to excise the information out of your brain to pretend to be you.
<CyberMatt> oh an you'd  need to find the backup of my secret key or elese break into my computer
<persia> jdong: True.  The clipboard is available to the entire net, whereas the flash drive is only available to local users.
<jdong> CyberMatt: unfortunately until Apparmor/SELinux protects the system more it's probably a trivial exploit to read anything the local user has access to. the passphrase is a very important part of the security of your private key
<jdong> </paranoid side>
<CyberMatt> oh and there is the smalll matter of my revoke license
<CyberMatt> which is soon to be printed out and stored in a secure place as soon as i get the darn printer to work
<CyberMatt> might need to ask santa for a new printer
<pwnguin> jdong: apparently mplayer now has samba support?
 * pwnguin did not realize this last night when he said it was missing samba support
<jdong> pwnguin: not surprising... mplayer seems to hack in support for everything imaginable
<jdong> pwnguin: i.e. blinkenlights output modules :D
<pwnguin> heh
<jdong> pwnguin: my buddies loved -vo aa
<pwnguin> yea
<pwnguin> K-SLUG liked to put star wars on display with aalib
<persia> blueyed: Would you mind checking dspam for the older releases as well?  I don't think it hits dapper, but Luca thought it might hit at least feisty.
<SWAT> I'm getting a "dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source" when I "debuild -S". I have extracted the original files, added a debian dir etc. and edited the configure, makefiles and aclocal files. Any tips?
<blueyed> persia: assigned it to myself. Will look into it later.
<persia> SWAT: Did you intentionally touch a binary file?
<persia> blueyed: Great,  Thanks.
<Ubulette> is there a spec describing the recommended way(s) to install mime types and icons in ubuntu (something not obsolete)
<SWAT> persia, no. I did use automake though
<persia> Ubulette: Ubnutu follows the freedesktop XDG standards
<persia> SWAT: Hmm..  Which file is it choking on?
<SWAT> persia, ow wait, could it be, because depcomp is symlinked instead of copied into the directory? (automake installed the missing depcomp)
<persia> SWAT: That might be it: symlinks don't diff well.
<SWAT> is it ok to copy the debcomp file?
<persia> SWAT: From where are you copying it, and to where?
<Ubulette> persia, anything more dh_helper oriented ?
<SWAT> from /usr/share/automake-1.10/depcomp to my package directory (top dir)
<persia> SWAT: Check the licenses for that file and your program, but probably.
<persia> Ubulette: Well, you need to generate some .desktop files, install them in the right directories (often /usr/share/applications), and call dh_desktop.
<SWAT> persia, thanks for the info
<Ubulette> persia, I've done that but result is weird. nautilus and firefox don't show the same launchers and icons are missed. I have to call gtk-update-icon-cache to fix nautilus, but i guess it's bad. I feel i'm not doing this the right way.. so I asked for specs ;)
<persia> Ubulette: You likely need dh_icons then, if you're adding icons to the icon cache directories.
<Ubulette> hmm, let's try that :)
<jdong> persia: are syncs with debian automated or require poking (pkg with no ubuntu changes)
<geser> jdong: till DIF semi-automatically
<pochu> jdong: if they have no ubuntuX in the version number, then they are automated unless they are blacklisted
<pochu> geser: semi?
<persia> jdong: semi-automated: don't poke before DIF, but don't be surprised if there is a delay.  On the other hand, I don't think contrib and non-free are brought in by default, so syncs are accepted for those.
<geser> pochu: an archive-admin needs to start a script
<pochu> oh, right
<jdong> debian recently adopted my gtkpod fix and also switched their packaging to use dpatch like our gtkpod-aac and I'd like to pull it into Hardy and merge two of its patches to gtkpod-aac
<persia> (but the archive-admins will run the script every couple days, so don't bother them)
<jdong> persia: ok thanks that's what I wanted to know
<jdong> rough timeline
<persia> jdong: That's non-free / multiverse, right?  If so, then requesting a sync likely won't annoy anyone.
<jdong> persia: no, gtkpod is Free
<persia> \o/
<jdong> -aac is a Ubuntu specific package in multiverse
<Ubulette> persia, so I need to put my icons only in /usr/share/icons ? not in /usr/share/icons/gnome/$${size}x$${size}/mimetypes ?
<ScottK> jdong: Congratulations.
<jdong> ScottK: thanks!
<jpatrick> jdong: congrats! (even if I thought you already were motu)
<persia> Ubulette: It depends on the level of integration you seek.  Some apps just drop them in /usr/share/pixmaps, but those don't tend to look as nice when DPI != 100
<Ubulette> persia, upstream ships png icons in size 32 and 48 for file association (no svg). I want to associate a mimetype with an extension, those icons and all this working in firefox and nautilus
<persia> Ubulette: OK.  I don't know anything about firefox associations.  For nautilus, it doesn't matter where the icons go, as long as they are in the icon cache and have unique basenames (or if non-unique, represent a unique icon, just different representations).  If you put them in the special icon directories for different sizes, nautilus will pick the appropriate size depending on context.  If you only drop one icon in pixmaps, that always gets use
<Ubulette> persia, I did many things to make this work. 1/ foo.mime + foo.sharedmimeinfo + dh_mime 2/ .desktop files (1 main with a MimeType entry and several others without) + dh_desktop and 3/ icons manually + now dh_icons
<imbrandon> moins all
<geser> Hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya geser
<persia> Ubulette: All of those together sounds about right.  It's still not working?
<zul> afternoon imbrandon
<imbrandon> ello
<jdong> persia: do I need to poke an archive admin about accepting something into -proposed or is that handled on a regular basis too?
<Ubulette> persia, I have more apps proposed for my extension than the expected main one (in nautilus)
<imbrandon> looks like i have successfully converted my step-father to ubuntu , today he asked abaout audacity
<imbrandon> heh
<persia> jdong: I think each archive-admin processes those on a certain day of the week, so it should happen on most days.  It sometimes takes a little longer if their workload is high.
<jdong> persia: ok, cool, I'll let them do their thing then; just wanted to make sure I didn't need to do anything special on my end :D
<persia> jdong: If it takes a really long time (> 1 week), you might subscribe the team to the bug, but it usually doesn't take that long.
<persia> Ubulette: Hrm.  I seem to remember something funny about multiple MIME handling, but don't know enough to give you a good pointer.  Sorry.
<Ubulette> persia, hmm, maybe left overs from my previous attempts not removed from the cache ?
<Adri2000> RainCT: sorry, didn't have time to test it, but I'm doing it right now
<persia> jdong: Oh, and the "really long time" never counts conferences on the release schedule: if anything happens during those times it's a bonus.
<RainCT> Adri2000: ok :)
<imbrandon> jdong: iirc its done 2 times a week , btw congrats
<persia> Ubulette: Could be: sometimes the cache needs a couple manual whacks.
<jdong> imbrandon: thanks :)
<DktrKranz> blueyed, thanks for investigating on dspam. I think both Edgy and Dapper are affected. Mind looking at them too?
<persia> Dapper too?  I thought /var/run didn't move to tmpfs until Edgy, but I may well misremember.
<DktrKranz> That's why I'm not sure
<Adri2000> RainCT: I hade to make a few changes, but looks like it works: http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.beta.php
<Adri2000> s/hade/had/
 * ScottK recalls the same as persia (/var/run as tempfs in Edgy)
<persia> Anyone like python, and want a fairly easy merge?
 * ajmitch likes python
 * RainCT also likes Python, but is working on a new package right now
<persia> ajmitch: You can have clive if you want - I'd prefer to be the last uploader for fewer python packages, as I don't really know python.
<DktrKranz> persia, Thanks for adding TEST CASE to that bug
 * ScottK likes Python, but is not looking for new merges to do.
<RainCT> Adri2000: great :). what was wrong?
<persia> DktrKranz: Really, the order should have been "add test case", "upload", but at least it's there now :)
<DktrKranz> hehe, at least get it before archive-admins notice them :)
<Adri2000> -+      $comment = '';
<Adri2000> -+      if(isset($comments[$package[0]]) $comment = $comments[$package[0]]
<Adri2000> ++      $comment = \'\';
<Adri2000> ++      if(isset($comments[\''.$package[0].'\'])) $comment = $comments[\''.$package[0].'\']
<Adri2000> RainCT: ^
<RainCT> Adri2000: ah ok. inside the echo I guess
<Adri2000> yes, not always easy to figure out :s
<blueyed> re: dspam. Does somebody has a dapper box at hands? (to see what "mount | grep /var/run" says)? For Feisty, I'll setup a virtualbox.
<ScottK> blueyed: I have one.
<ScottK> blueyed: varrun on /var/run type tmpfs (rw)
<DktrKranz> persia, "varrun on /var/run type tmpfs" on Dapper too
<ScottK> So I was wrong.
<DktrKranz> blueyed, ^
 * persia defers to actual tests
<DktrKranz> :)
<blueyed> Thanks. So I'll create additional patches for dapper and feisty then.
<slomo> jdong: do it if you want
<jdong> slomo: ok it's on my todo list, thanks :)
<jdong> slomo: and sorry about the gst-ffmpeg thing
<slomo> jdong: np :) it's just that ffmpeg is insane and gst-ffmpeg has the problem to use too much of it to allow easy updating to new APIs ;)
<RainCT> can there be two homepages in debian/control? :P
<jdong> slomo: yeah, I've worked with ffmpeg enough to understand how unreasonably impulsively they break the API
<slomo> jdong: upstream probably will release the next releases without a ffmpeg snapshot but instead with the svn revision of ffmpeg one should use and a guide on how to update to another ffmpeg version (with the most common cases)
<imbrandon> RainCT: i dont see why not , but the question begs as to "why?"
<jdong> slomo: then again aging ffmpeg is annoying at cripping gstreamer-ffmpeg's abilities...
<nixternal> dh_iconcache...what is it now?
<slomo> dh_icons
<nixternal> slomo: thanks
<jdong> slomo: meh I don't have any major reason to prefer one or the other; if we want to do system ffmpeg for cleanness I'd be happy to provide the manpower to fudge with the API to get it to build though
<slomo> jdong: i plan to get it build against the system ffmpeg in debian after next gst-ffmpeg release
<slomo> ...and let's hope that this improves thing in one or another way ;)
<jdong> slomo: mmmkay; from my tinkering with it yesterday it seemed pretty trivial, just tedious, to get it to build
<slomo> jdong: you will get runtime issues
<RainCT> imbrandon: just comma separated or what?   well, because it has a page on launchpad (with the bug tracker and such) and a .org website that's still under construction but might contain interesting information soon (and I don't want to link only that one since it might have downtimes). if it's a problem having just the launchpad page isn't a problem, but i'd prefer both :)
<persia> RainCT: I don't think the tools support that currently.  Go for the .org site, and push upstream to finish for Hardy :)
<jdong> slomo: is there a test suite somewhere for gst-ffmpeg? I could only think of making it decode my collection of sample movies in totem-gstreamer... of course it's an incomplete look at the abilities of gst-ffmpeg
<jdong> slomo: but anyway, I'll leave that package in your caring hands ;-)
<slomo> jdong: afaik no
<ScottK> jdong: That would make it too easy.
<RainCT> persia: ok, will use launchpad's one then.  I (and a LoCo mate) am upstream, btw :P
<jdong> ScottK: :)
<slomo> jdong: there's a minimal one in the tarball but i doubt it's very useful
<jdong> logistics question, when I import mpeg4ip from debian-multimedia I'll almost certainly need to edit debian/control to get it to build... Do I upload it as a new package or are archive managers involved in the process?
<slomo> jdong: at least not as useful as the testsuite of all other gstreamer modules ;)
<persia> RainCT: Are you sure you can't be up a fair bit?  Homepage is widely user-visible :)
<LaserJock> jdong: you upload anything yet?
<slomo> jdong: you can get it synced i guess... and it will go through NEW if it's not there yset
<persia> jdong: merges just get uploaded.  Only syncs require admins.
<jdong> LaserJock: yeah, x264, gpac into hardy, gtkpod-aac into gutsy-proposed
<jdong> persia: so what happens to new packages? they go to a queue right?
<jdong> do I have to make contact with an archive manager?
<persia> jdong: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue
<ScottK> No.
<persia> jdong: No.  Don't poke the archive admins :)
<persia> (well, maybe the day before release freeze for a critical sync closing a massive security hole or something, but only then)
<LaserJock> jdong: cool
<RainCT> persia: well.. right now the site is down :S (it's hosted on a personal server at home of the other developer).  I'll ask him to move it to my hosting account, then it shouldn't be a problem
<jdong> jpatrick / ScottK : Btw, seb128 asked us for backports to be explicit in the ack messages of the precise version of packages we approve :)
<jdong> something like a rmadison line to go along with an ack
<persia> RainCT: Most people won't see it until February or so, and only a few thousand before April.  No big rush.
<ScottK> jdong: Makes sense.  Wilco.
<jpatrick> jdong: ok
<ScottK> jdong: So there are three of us processing backports now?
<jdong> ScottK: yep, jpatrick joined backporters :)
<jdong>   ktorrent | 2.2.3-0ubuntu3 |         hardy | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
<jdong> oops
<jdong> wrong screen
<ScottK> jpatrick: Welcome.
<jpatrick> ScottK: thanks
<dfiloni> persia: you don't go to sleep tonight?
<jpatrick> jdong: just filed my first request a few moments ago
<persia> dfiloni: I failed :(
<dfiloni> persia: I'm sorry
<jdong> persia: for merging, how much of the changelog should be included in .changes? Full history? or since the previous ubuntu revision? What about for mpeg4ip which will be a new package in Ubuntu, the full changelog?
<persia> jdong: -v since last version in Ubuntu
<jdong> persia: ok, thanks :)
<persia> jdong: Let me check on a new one: hold on...
 * ajmitch waits for jdong to upload crack
<persia> ajmitch: It's already happened :)
<jdong> lol
<ajmitch> that's what I was worried about
<persia> jdong: Looking at a couple of the non-free new syncs it looks like for new packages, it's usually just the most recent changelog.
<zul> jdong: did you use a pipe?
<jdong> persia: mmkay
<jdong> zul: was I supposed to? I thought injecting was preferred ;-)
<zul> heh
<james_w> CyberMatt: back. Did you use automake to create the Makefile.in from the Makefile.am?
<gaspa> persia: i'm here.
<persia> gaspa: If you like, you can have the clive merge: the patch was a quick adjustment to force python2.4 (as it didn't work with 2.5).  There's a new upstream, so it might be a sync.
<TheMuso_> Hey folks.
<LaserJock> man, chemists and their love for Java: "Wouldn't it be great to be able to compile code written in languages like FORTRAN, C, and C++ to Java bytecode?"
<zul> LaserJock: no that would be evil..
<gaspa> persia: oh, fine...
<zul> and give me nightmares..
<geser> LaserJock: answer with a big NO
<persia> LaserJock: Isn't that the mono runtime?
<zul> LaserJock: in fact fortran gives me nightmares
<LaserJock> zul: oh come now ;-)
<persia> gaspa: You want something harder?
<gaspa> not for now.
<gaspa> it could be fine, for my full-timetable
<gaspa> :D
<persia> gaspa: OK.  Good luck with clive :)
<zul> LaserJock: im serious...im not going to be able to sleep tonight thanks..
<gaspa> persia: thanks. i'll ping you if I need some infos.
 * ScottK ponders jfortran, just to give zul the willies even more.
<LaserJock> zul: so you wouldn't be impressed about the Ruby code the guy does that's uses a Java implementation of Ruby and Java wrappers around C++ code?
<persia> gaspa: OK.  I may not be around much for a while, but feel free to send me email if you get stuck.
<gaspa> persia: ok.
<LaserJock> ScottK: isn't that like Fortress?
<zul> LaserJock: i would...but fortran just scares me
<gaspa> :d
<LaserJock> zul: Fortran scares you?
<LaserJock> it's not bad at all
<zul> LaserJock: its just the fortran course i took, doesnt bring back happy memories
<LaserJock> it's nice and fast
<ScottK> LaserJock: I really try hard to stay far away from anything Java related, so I've no idea at all.
<zul> interesting http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/upgrade/4230945.html
<LaserJock> ScottK: I know, but these chemists are crazy over it.
<LaserJock> everything has to be Java
<LaserJock> I think they are primarily concerned about portability
<jdong> LaserJock: youv'e seen the unclean bash.org quote about that right?
<persia> zul: Think of it as an opportunity to support a whole new class of users :)
<ScottK> Then they should use Python.  Even more portable.
<jdong> LaserJock: http://www.bash.org/?338364
<persia> ScottK: Can I run python in my browser?
<zul> persia: no thats ok...
<LaserJock> ScottK: but but Python isn't Java
<imbrandon> vb6 ftw /me hides
<LaserJock> but they'll use Jython maybe
<persia> imbrandon: I can't even get that to run on the intended target platform !
<ajmitch> imbrandon: just leave
<jdong> vb6 in multiverse!!11
<LaserJock> somebody needs ops!
<LaserJock> burn 'em!
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> vb6 code can be compiled with gambas ( mostly , only a very few translations ) hehe
<ajmitch> jdong: careful
<imbrandon> jdong: watch what you wish for , teh under the current rules i bet vb6runtimes can be packaged for multiverse ;)
<jdong> imbrandon: uh oh :)
 * zul stomps on imbrandon's head
<imbrandon> lol
<griffinc> I want to test a merge I am working on against the current package source in guty.  If I do apt-get source <packagename>, how can I use the *.dsc or the two debdiffs from my merge to test?  I have already tested in pbuilder but I want to test against the current source package.
<LaserJock> hmm, hardy will look interesting: http://www.arsgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ubuntu-mockup1.jpg
<imbrandon> i dident say i wanted or would or even encouraged it, but it *could* happen :)
<griffinc> s/guty/gusty
<imbrandon> eww where is that from LaserJock
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ArsGeek is saying it's the first mockup
<LaserJock> http://www.arsgeek.com/?p=2923
<imbrandon> nasty
<LaserJock> I dont know where they got it though
<LaserJock> I know they were gonna try for orange/black
<LaserJock> but the grey looks kinda nasty, IMO
<imbrandon> if its not on the -art ML with a wiki its probably fake
<imbrandon> ora wannabe
<LaserJock> *sigh*
 * LaserJock gets back to fixing his Fortran program
<norsetto> imbrandon: hi ... did you get my emails?
<nixternal> LaserJock: *)*#)@**!*! hola homeskillet!
<LaserJock> nixternal: hiya!
<imbrandon> norsetto: about the mentors ?
<norsetto> imbrandon: indeed
<imbrandon> norsetto: yea i just havent taken the time to reply yet today, but yes on all counts, the other 2 dropped off the planet and i can take the new one on
<norsetto> imbrandon: good! thank you very much
<imbrandon> np
<CyberMatt> james_w, i used the upstream Makefiles from upstream and i assume there automake
<ajmitch> hi norsetto, nixternal
<norsetto> imbrandon: I will let him know that he can contact you
<nixternal> howdy ajmitch
<norsetto> hi ajmitch
<nixternal> my merges are done for the month now :)
<ajmitch> ScottK: do you want to add something about the debian python modules team to the MOTU python page?
<ajmitch> you're involved in the team, so you're better to comment on it
<imbrandon> norsetto: great
 * ajmitch had someone asking him about packaging python stuff for ubuntu
<ajmitch> I can bounce you his email if you want, too :)
<james_w> CyberMatt: ok, you edited the Makefile.am file. This is the source for the Makefile.in file, which is then turned in to the Makefile by  the configure script.
<CyberMatt> yes
<james_w> CyberMatt: so you need to run automake (either during the build, or before creating the source package) to regenerate Makefile.in. Or you could just patch that file and send the better fix upstream.
<james_w> CyberMatt: however the configure.in specifies automake1.6, which is not in a package, which makes things more tricky.
 * persia suggests a port to a newer version of automake, in the interests of having fewer automaken around
<dothebart> hy...
<dothebart> is there a configured default recipient in ubuntu for cron mails?
<persia> dothebart: I suspect you seek #ubuntu or https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<ScottK> ajmitch: Sure.
<ajmitch> hello nealmcb
<dothebart> persia: no, you're right. i want to add the default behaviours to the citadel debs, thats why i started asking here.
<CyberMatt> is there a doc on how to port automake 1.6 to 1.8
<ScottK> ajmitch: You mean on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Python
<persia> dothebart: Citadel the BBS?
<dothebart> the bbs and groupware.
<dothebart> citadel.org
<dothebart> it knows imap, pop3, webmail, groupdav...
<ajmitch> ScottK: yes
<persia> dothebart: Ah, so it schedules various jobs, and you want to forward the logs, or it requires scheduled jobs and you want to get the logs?
<james_w> CyberMatt: I don't know of one, it's as much a case of run it and see.
<dothebart> no. i do the debs. it acts as MTA. and i would like to add the aliases so these mails don't bounce.
<dothebart> so if s.b. installs citadel on its ubuntu it is integrated into the system.
<persia> dothebart: Ah.  The rules for how cron sends updates are sometimes frustratingly complex, but in almost every case it should end up being pushed to the local MTA addressed to a local user.
<dothebart> as it may replace postfix.
<dothebart> i just know the debian behaviour to ask for the recipient ;-)
<persia> dothebart: so if you do the delivery to the local mbox or forward based on aliases, you should be fine.
<dothebart> hm, which aliases file will the system operate?
<dothebart> just the postfix ones?
<persia> dothebart: That's usually up to the MTA, as far as I know.
<persia> You can probably generate test cases for cron mail by using mailx as a MUA from a non-user account
<dothebart> hm... the /etc/mail.aliases has a different syntax...
<persia> dothebart: I seem to remember a big drive in Debian to coordinate the MTA handling several years ago: you might find leftovers on wiki.debian.org that may help.
<ScottK> ajmitch: How's that?
<ScottK> RainCT: stdin has done a simple script for 'dget'ing packages from Launchpad.  Please have a look and see about adding it to ubuntu-dev-tools. http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/522
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: ping
<RainCT> ScottK: ok :)
<ScottK> RainCT: Thanks.
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: pong
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: i have just receive the notice that you will be my mentor
<imbrandon> ahh great :) welcome to the club
<nxvl_work> thnx, i'm ready to start :D
<imbrandon> shoot me an email and i'll give ya all my contact info and normal times i'm online etc
<imbrandon> ( i'm on a bit early for me today )
<pwnguin> 3pm is early?
<imbrandon> and today my daughter turns 10 year old , man i feel old sometimes :)
<imbrandon> pwnguin: for me yea
<imbrandon> heh
<pwnguin> man, even im not that far off ^_^
<LaserJock> ScottK: you sure that works?
<ScottK> LaserJock: No.  Just going by what stdin said.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I wouldn't think it would in every case because you're just relying on LP Librarian having sequential numbers for the files
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you can mentor me as well
<imbrandon> LOL
<LaserJock> ScottK: and having a certain order
 * ScottK really has no idea, just saw a discussion about it on kubuntu-devel and thought it'd be a useful capability.
<stdin> LaserJock: I checked several sources, and the ones I've seen do work like that
<imbrandon> ajmitch: only if you can be my NM sponsor ? :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> ScottK: thanks for that
<ScottK> ajmitch: No problem.
<LaserJock> stdin: it might work in many cases, but we can't be sure
<LaserJock> it's a decent workaround for now I gues
<LaserJock> *guess
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: congratulations!
 * ajmitch will remove the team leader section there :)
<ScottK> ajmitch: Please don't.
<stdin> LaserJock: well that's what I was going for really, I just mad it because I needed a workaround for what I was doing just now
<ajmitch> ScottK: why?
<ajmitch> it links to my ancient wiki page
<ajmitch> which I stripped most of the info from
<ScottK> ajmitch: Well don't take out the bit about you being the leader.
<nealmcb> soren: so what are you thinking about ubuntu-jeos-builder vs virt-install et al?
<LaserJock> stdin: sure, I've got a bug for actually having dgettable URLs in LP, but I have no idea when that will get done
<ajmitch> ScottK: but that requires me to actually lead :)
<ajmitch> and I haven't exactly been doing that
<jdong> LaserJock: aww no timeframe on that yet?
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: mail sent
<jdong> LaserJock: guess in the meantime I'll continue using my lpget scraper ;-)
 * ScottK is on strike from leading right now, so you're better than me.  You just asked me to do something and I did it.  That's leadership.
<ScottK> ajmitch: ^^^
<ajmitch> fine
<LaserJock> jdong: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/130158
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130158 in soyuz "Launchpad should provide dgettable URLs" [Medium,Incomplete]
<LaserJock> jdong: and it looks like some info is needed, mind providing it? :-)
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: thanks
<jdong> LaserJock: yeah I see that; don't have the time currently to set up such a testing env but I'll subscribe to the report
<jdong> siretart: talked to slomo about importing mpeg4ip from deb-multimedia and he said go for it; did the initial tweaking to match control against Ubuntu, but because (1) x264 & faad2 had recent uploads that have yet to build (2) I don't know the impact the new libmp4v2-0 binary will have on its reverse-deps; I definitely don't wanna upload it to hardy. I'm thinking about uploading it to the motumedia PPA for now and waiting for the dust to settle to i
<pochu> jdong: your message was cut ;)
<pochu> Night folks
<jdong> pochu: really?
<jdong> stoopid irc :P
<jdong> what word did it cut at?
<geser> jdong: settle to i
<proppy> jdong: waiting for the dust to settle to i...
<jdong> "to iron out any kinks. Is that  ok with you?
<jdong> "
<proppy> geser: damn you're fast
<jdong> siretart: ^^
<jdong> *sigh* I blame irssi for that
<geser> proppy: I wouldn't consider 3 minutes fast
<proppy> geser: faster than me is fast !
<jdong> 3 minutes is... never mind
<proppy> jdong: :)
<proppy> jdong: congratulations btw
<jdong> proppy: thanks!
<LaserJock> jdong: I just tested so don't worray about it
<jdong> LaserJock: thanks
<persia> Could somewith more proficient in bash than I please suggest how to make http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/process-interdiff more robust?
<persia> s/proficient/proficiency/
<TheMuso_> persia: I'll take a look.
<persia> TheMuso_: Thanks.
<RainCT> ScottK: nice script, I'm making some additions to it and will commit then to my branch :)
<ScottK> RainCT: Thanks stdin.  I didn't write it.
<stdin> :)
<siretart> jdong: sounds reasonable. that's btw what the PPA is intended for
<jdong> siretart: okie :)
<TheMuso> persia: For a start, I think it would make things safer if you put all your variables in double quotes, as well as everything you echo to stdout. I'd also be checking that valid data was entered on the command line. You do at the moment, but this could be further checked, in terms of number of arguments given to the script, as well as rudimentary checking of the given files validity.
<TheMuso> I'd also provide a --help switch to display usage.
<TheMuso> persia: If time/knowledge of how to do so is an issue, I'd be happy to help you make the changes.
<persia> TheMuso: I'd agree with all of that.  I'd also like to check to make sure OLD_VERSION != NEW_VERSION, as that should be a debdiff, but I'm already stretching :)
<persia> If you could, that'd be great.  This was mostly a proof of concept for the documentation I'm writing, but if it was made robust, it might be reasonable for ubuntu-dev-tools.
<TheMuso> Ok, I'll take a poke at it.
<persia> (don't forget to add your name if you make changes :) )
<persia> TheMuso: Thank you.
<TheMuso> Ok will do.
<persia> TheMuso: I also am lousy at catching exceptions in bash: if you can figure out a way to call uscan --force-download if get-orig-source fails, that'd be a significant improvement in terms of scope.
<TheMuso> persia: Ok.
<griffinc> after working on a merge and creating the two debdiffs, as described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging, what final tests can I do with these debdiffs before attaching to the bug report in LP?
<griffinc> patch against the source package?
<RainCT> ScottK: yeh, I've already told him by pm
<geser> griffinc: look at them if they are sane (e.g. if all wanted changes are really listed in the changelog and if the listed changes are really in the debdiff)
<ScottK> RainCT: OK.  Good.  Just making sure credit went where it's due.
<griffinc> geser: ok, thanks.  can you apply them like a regular patch?  if so, in which order?
<TheMuso> persia: Have you checked this script against packages with epoqs?
<imbrandon> TheMuso: you forgot G3 too ( thats what I use )
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I know, but I suspect not many people have them...
<TheMuso> But I could be wrong...
<imbrandon> you would be suprised :)
<TheMuso> Well, I'll ed it it.
<persia> TheMuso: No, and it will fail - It likely needs to have another match run to clean up 1: from the changelog.
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah I thought as much.
<persia> (unless I'm mistaken, and the epoch is also shown in the source package filenames)
<TheMuso> No its not.
<persia> Right.  In the first iteration I was depending on the well-formattedness of the interdiff filename, but decided that was just too broken to use.
<TheMuso> Its also interesting in how there is more than one way to get info from a string. I tend to use cut a lot myself, for things like package names/versions, etc.
<TheMuso> As I can't understand regular expressions to save my life at times.
<persia> TheMuso: Ah.  I'm a big fan of sed/awk, but find bash easier for simple stuff: no call & pipe overhead.
<persia> Well, if you can make the control syntax work, I'm more than happy to play with regexes :)
<imbrandon> uh how would i regex match "# -start-" i'm totaly blanking ( no quotes )
<TheMuso> persia: control syntax? What are you referring to exactly?
<persia> imbrandon: '/#\ -start-/' or /\#\ -start-/
<persia> TheMuso: program flow: break on error, check sane conditions, don't allow hijacking by overloading variables with control syntax, etc.
<TheMuso> persia: ah
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I'm a huge fan of cut :-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah so am I. If there are clear boundaries for the data you are trying to extract, IMO it can often make the code easier to read, as it then takes less time to work out just what you are trying to extract.
 * persia admits regexes can be opaque
<TheMuso> And while persia has a point re call overhead etc, when its a script, its not like its going to churn away on stuff for ages, for the most part at least.
<SWAT> When I compile, it seems it can not find my config.status file, although everything seems fine (srcdir=. top_builddir=../ builddir=.) http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45167/  Any tips?
<persia> TheMuso: Well, it depends, awk is fairly big, and not worth it for little things.  cut is probably not an issue: I'm just not familiar with the syntax.
<TheMuso> persia: To each their own.
<TheMuso> Believe it or not, I have actually written shell script code to do checking on .changes and .dsc files. Grep and cut are probably the two biggest tools used.
<persia> SWAT: It's the cd && /bin/bash ./config.status Makefile.  You probably wanted to switch to a known directory, rather than the home directory of whichever user is executing the makefile.
<jdong> persia: oh but regexes are the test of manhood ;-)
<persia> TheMuso: awk has '/regex/ {transform}' syntax, which does both at once, but it's a bit of an odd language.
<jdong> persia: awk and sed for tribal council
<jdong> persia: and I guess cut is for the rebel force ;-)
<persia> jdong: Maybe, but that was said about sendmail.cf, and nobody uses that anymore either.
<jdong> persia: pfft sendmail.cf is just a legend used by UNIX old farts to scare young ones. Just like tar.gz software packages and compiling kernels.
<TheMuso> I can certainly understand the power of regexes, but for me personally, when I read code, even though I have a vision impairement, I have to read it visually, and regexes simply don't easily translate to understanding where in the data stream a match is being attempted.
<TheMuso> With pipes and cut, I can work out how the data is being extracted. It does help that I know cut's syntax as well.
<jdong> TheMuso: regex aren't easy to master and look frightening at first glance indeed
<jdong> TheMuso: they are also damn near impossible to debug
<TheMuso> jdong: Yeah. I have known about them for ages, even the simple stuff, but if I can avoid them, I do.
<jdong> TheMuso: if you ever want to have a stroke look at some of the regexes acidrip uses to get progress out of mencoder output
<persia> TheMuso: It's not just a visual thing: regexes may recurse, and aren't necessarily related to data flow.  I tend to think in blocks, rather than streams, which helps.
<SWAT> persia, I was planning to, but I just found it strange. I'll go fiddle some more
<jdong> TheMuso: I recall back in Edgy or maybe Dapper mencoder *changed output format* and I had to patch acidrip's perl foo to match the new progress output
<jdong> *shudder*
<SWAT> if a package contains a autogen.sh, is it wise to run it, then create a source package and then package it? (SVN checkout)
<TheMuso> jdong: heh
<persia> SWAT: In your makefile you likely have cd $(SOMEWHERE); $(MAKE)..., but $(SOMEWHERE) isn't defined, which is confusing make.
<TheMuso> persia: With awk, what does $NF represent?
<SWAT> persia, thanks for time (I also concluded that). I just wanted to check that I wasn't making any basic beginner mistakes.
<persia> TheMuso: The contents of the last field, where the field separator is denoted by the -F argument.
<TheMuso> hm ok
<jdong> persia: err $NF is number of fields
<jdong> on the current line processed
<jdong> I think.
<persia> SWAT: You are, but that's the one :)
<jdong> err wait does $NF dereference it?
<persia> jdong: No, "NF" is number of fields.  This gets replaced by the actual number of fields before $ is referenced, so $NF ends up being the last field.
<jdong> persia: ah, ok, makes sense :)
<TheMuso> persia: What exactly is NEW_PKG_STR supposed to contain?
 * persia admits awk is more opaque than regexes
<TheMuso> oh... the package name and version...
<persia> TheMuso: it contains a string that matches the directory name for the target version.
<TheMuso> yep just worked it out.
<LaserJock> PS3 is a PPC chip?
<Burgundavia> power, yes
<Burgundavia> not quite the same, but almost
<LaserJock> huh, never knew that
<Burgundavia> so is the xbox 360 and the wii
<TheMuso> Yeah, most of the PowerPC instruction set anyway.
<LaserJock> who makes the chips?
<persia> IBM
<Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_video_game_consoles_%28seventh_generation%29
<blueyed> How would I create a hardy pbuilder? By backporting debootstrap and then "DIST=hardy sudo pbuilder create"?
<jdong> pbuilder takes DIST=?
<persia> blueyed: Either that, or dist-upgrade a gutsy one
 * jdong sues for environment variable infringement :D
<TheMuso> Ugh. Something breaks planet ubuntu at times.
<TheMuso> At least in how my RSS reader shows some posts.
<blueyed> jdong: in my .pbuilderrc, it uses DIST (taken from the samples)
<tonyyarusso> I've noticed that
<tonyyarusso> TheMuso: the feed disappears entirely from time to time
<jdong> blueyed: cool.
<jdong> blueyed: I thought I just invented a prevuism but guess there's prior art :)
<bddebian> Later folks
<TheMuso> persia: Well, I've made the script a little more robust, in quoting strings etc, but I need to run the script with -x enabled to see just how some parts of it shoudlw rok, but for that I need a package with an interdiff, so it'll have to wait for a bit.
<blueyed> jdong: at the end of .pbuilderrc I have http://pastebin.com/m48eb23fd
<TheMuso> s/shouldw rok/should work/
<persia> TheMuso: You can generate an interdiff with the command on w.u.c/MOTU/Contributing.  Looking for a version difference for a -1 upload between gutsy & hardy should be not too hard.
<LaserJock> blueyed: you can get backported debootstrap from -backports in case you were going to do it manually
<TheMuso> persia: Ok, I'll look at it more later.
<jpatrick> norsetto: ping
<blueyed> LaserJock: oh.. I've thought I would have enabled -backports..
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks a lot for helping with that.  My docs are almost done, but it'd be great to have an automated tool to help.
<norsetto> jpatrick: yes sir?
<mok0> re: pbuilder, I've seen references to cowdancer. Anyone using it?
<jpatrick> norsetto: I have a new contributor (friend of mine) interested in me being his mentor, could you add to the mentor's file, his nickname: "outime"
<norsetto> jpatrick: of course
<TheMuso> persia: np
<LaserJock> hmm, chopping up 9million lines of data isn't as easy as I'd like :/
<jdong> superm1: opinions on bug 163928? upstream? Ubuntu?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163928 in mplayer "mplayer rc2 (gutsy-backposrts) does not go down -vo list properly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163928
<StevenK> jdong: straceing ktorrent shows it doing a whole heap of futex stuff
<StevenK> jdong: Like, constantly
<jdong> StevenK: what version is this?
<StevenK> jdong: 2.2.1-0ubuntu3
<RainCT> ScottK, TheMuso: added stdin's script, please merge ~rainct/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev into ~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk :)
<jdong> StevenK: can you mail me a copy of sample strace output?
<StevenK> jdong: Sure. Give me a few so this build finishes
<RainCT> good night all
<jdong> StevenK: certainly
<huats> good evening everyone
<SWAT> what could be a soluation to a "/bin/bash: AMDEP_TRUE@: command not found" error when I try to compile? What am I doing wrong? (it also couldn't find am_fastdepCC)
<huats> does anybody can explain me, how a package that I have been working on for merging (and signaled as so on dad) can be right now in hardy before I publish anything ? and most of all with some stuffs missing ?
<LaserJock> huats: which package?
<huats> alleyoop
<slangasek> SWAT: buggy, hand-edited Makefile.in, or a configure script that was regenerated on a system without the requisite automake dependencies available
<huats> it does not appear anymore in dad...
<SWAT> slangasek, thanks. Should I manually edit the Makefile.in or regenerate it using 'automake'?
<LaserJock> huats: it was a sync request
<huats> a sync request ?
<norsetto> huats: hehe, next time you should be quicker
<StevenK> jdong: jdong@u.c?
<LaserJock> huats: james_w requested a sync
<huats> but some stuffs are missing in the debian package... like by instance (I know it is a detail) the maintener filed is wrong....
<jdong> StevenK: yep
<slangasek> SWAT: presumably, regenerate it using automake
<LaserJock> huats: see bug #163613
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163613 in alleyoop "Please sync alleyoop 0.9.3-1  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163613
<LaserJock> huats: why is the maintainer field wrong?
<huats> LaserJock: not according the policy...
<LaserJock> huats: it's not changed by Ubuntu
<LaserJock> huats: so it doesn't need to have the Maintainer field changed
<TheMuso> /c
<huats> LaserJock: ok
<TheMuso> If nobody else is merging RainCT's changes, I'll do them
<huats> LaserJock: since it is a sync there is no need to change it ?
<norsetto> huats: james_w is also the debian maintainer, so, probably he knows what he is doing
<huats> norsetto: yeah I guess
<LaserJock> huats: right. If we don't change the package then we don't change the package :-)
<huats> norsetto: I was just surprised :)
<huats> LaserJock: ok... first time that I face that :) Thanks
<LaserJock> np
<huats> LaserJock: let's say that as norsetto said I should have been quicker.. and the next time I'll check that before spending 1/2 h for nothing :)
<norsetto> huats: forget what I said ....
<huats> norsetto: never
<huats> norsetto: I'll always remember that, and do I'll remind it to you before getting you a pizza in Toulouse
<huats> :P
<norsetto> :-S
<norsetto> huats: I mean, about the maintainer, its wrong ....
<huats> ok
<norsetto> huats: was it correct that it was a sync?
<huats> norsetto: so far yes
<norsetto> huats: oh well, find another one then
<huats> norsetto: I am doing that right now :)
<StevenK> jdong: You Got Mail.
<StevenK> jdong: Well, soon. :-)
<norsetto> huats: what about balsa?
<jdong>  StevenK thanks :) I'll investigate
 * jdong stares at ktorrent svn/branches in disbelief
<jdong> they slated a 2.2.4 for tomorrow.
<huats> norsetto: oh there is my name on it already :)
<jdong> sheesh they are racing with Gentoo Kernel Team on fastest revision cycle
<StevenK> Like the Gentoo kernel team can release that fast.
<StevenK> It takes time to apply racing stripes.
<jdong> StevenK: have you been a gentoo user before?
<s1024kb> norsetto: good morning my teacher. yesterday i had learned a lot here from a friend.
<StevenK> jdong: Nope. Don't plan on, either. :-)
<jdong> StevenK: there were times that gentoo-sources went through 3-4 revisions in a single day
<StevenK> Hah
<norsetto> s1024kb: hey selene
<jdong> StevenK: some people had the build-all-updates command run recursively till empty outdated list :D
<StevenK> Hah
<jdong> StevenK: err regarding your strace, holy crap
<StevenK> jdong: Hrm?
<jdong> StevenK: can you disable DHT in the configuration if it is enabled?
<StevenK> jdong: Lemme check
<jdong> StevenK: it looks like something on a UDP socket is bombarding KTorrent with trash information
<norsetto> s1024kb: I'll be gone soon, is there something you need to ask?
<StevenK> jdong: Where do I disable DHT?
<jdong> StevenK: settings->config->general
<StevenK> jdong: Ah. DHT is disabled.
<norsetto> huats: what did you do on that backport?
<jdong> StevenK: hmm and you say no torrents are running?
<StevenK> jdong: No torrents are downloading.
<huats> norsetto: nothing yet
<huats> norsetto: I wanted to finish the alleyoop before
<jdong> StevenK: hmm odd. Could run like a wireshark while this is happening and see whats the source/destination/port of the network traffic?
<norsetto> huats: ok, so you have done that ......
<StevenK> jdong: Is the port 100002?
<huats> norsetto: I will look at the backport tomorrow
<jdong> StevenK: can't tell from strace
<StevenK> Oh duh, of course you can't
<norsetto> huats: well, nobody should take you that
<jdong> StevenK: when you say no torrents are downloading, do you mean all torrents are stopped?
<huats> norsetto: :)
<jdong> StevenK: or are there things seeding ?
<StevenK> jdong: Nope, about 20 are uploading
<StevenK> Er, seeding. Right. :-)
<jdong> StevenK: if you stop the uploads does traffic stop?
<jdong> StevenK: wait bad sentence
<jdong> StevenK: if you stop the uploads does the *cpu usage* stop?
<StevenK> I figured that's what you meant.
<StevenK> That'll take me a few, I've got to wait for a build to finish.
<s1024kb> norsetto: no problem my teacher, i try to work with it myself. hope to see you in the afternoon if possible. Thanks. :-)
<norsetto> s1024kb: good, I'm off to bed then
<norsetto> g'night everybody
<s1024kb> norsetto: have a good dream. :-)
<huats> norsetto: good night
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-20
<frenchy> Greetings MOTUs and MOTUettes, I ask you kindly to please review my newly uploaded version of Me TV.  I'm still awaiting my first advocate.  See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=712.
<superm1> jdong, interesting bug
<StevenK> jdong: It doesn't seem to stop, no.
<superm1> i'm not really sure.  i can't think of anything that we are doing that would affect said behavior
<jdong> StevenK: strace look similar?
<jdong> StevenK: can you get me an strace without any uploads/downloads going?
<jdong> superm1: can you confirm his bug though?
<superm1> jdong, not right now.  i'll subscribe to it and try to take a look when i get to a machine with xvmc
<StevenK> jdong: Sure
<ssh_rdp> Hi, how can I tell pbuilder to fetch build dependencies from universe too? ( I have added Section: universe/python ...)
<StevenK> jdong: Mailed
<ssh_rdp> and COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse" in .pbuilderrc
<frenchy> Any MOTU with a DVB card, I'd especially appreciate!
<jdong> StevenK: hmm and you say these strace items keep CPU at what percentage?
<StevenK> jdong: ~20%
<jdong> StevenK: no difference between whether window is open or closed?
<StevenK> jdong: I usually keep it minimised
<RAOF> frenchy: I've got me a dvb card, and reception to rubbish to use it :(
<StevenK> RAOF: Send it here, I have great reception. :-P
 * jdong compares with his strace
<jdong> StevenK: hmm my strace looks almost identical but no CPU usage :-/
<jdong> StevenK: and the cpu usage is coming out of KTorrent's process?
<StevenK> jdong: At the moment it's coming from cc1 :-)
<StevenK> jdong: When this build finishes, I'll double check with top
<jdong> StevenK: LOL :)
<jdong> StevenK: you don't have an indexing daemon crawling either .kde/share/ or your torrent download dir, do you?
<frenchy> RAOF: Sorry to hear that, I've built myself a DVB application for GNOME and I was trying to get some feedback on it.
<StevenK> jdong: Probably. I haven't disabled tracker, because it hasn't gotten in my way
<frenchy> RAOF: I was talking to a guy in Germany who got it to work with a spoon.
<jdong> StevenK: :-/ well see if tracker is the root cause
<frenchy> RAOF: So your DVB-T also ... excellent ... Germany/Spain/Australia?
<frenchy> s/your/you're/
<RAOF> frenchy: Australia.  And I have *some* reception.  Just not enough to replace my analog TV with a mythbox.
<frenchy> RAOF: I'm in Canberra.
<StevenK> RAOF: Get a better antenna?
<StevenK> jdong: top still points to ktorrent
<jdong> In Soviet Russia, better antenna gets YOU
<StevenK> Boo, hiss
<jdong> lol
<jdong> StevenK: :-/ ktorrent is using 20% CPU idling? :(
<StevenK> jdong: Right
<jdong> StevenK: what kind of CPU are we talking about?
<StevenK> 12214 steven    15   0  306m  46m  20m S 13.9  3.1   5:15.76 ktorrent
<RAOF> StevenK: I'm using the flat's external aerial.  All my internal antennae haven't done any better.
<StevenK> jdong: A 3GHz Celeron
<StevenK> (in long mode)
<jdong> StevenK: hmm I'm pretty stumped then; your strace looks identical to mine...
<StevenK> Okay, so it's because ktorrent sucks. :-)
<RAOF> jdong: Maybe x86-64 has a worse futex implementation?
<frenchy> RAOF: Anyway, I'd appreciate your feed back sometime.
<jdong> RAOF: that is possible
<jdong> can anyone reproduce on x86-64 too? :D
<RAOF> frenchy: I'd be happy to give it.  URL?
<effie_jayx> hey all
<effie_jayx> how many packages are there in ubuntu?
<effie_jayx> nevermind
<effie_jayx> 23518 packages
<leonel> effie_jayx: and those are not enough :-P
<LaserJock> effie_jayx: depends on release, if you're counting just source packages, and what arch if not :-)
<effie_jayx> ahhh cool
<frenchy> Sorry, I sent it out a request for review a while ago.  Here it is again in case you missed it.
<frenchy> Greetings MOTUs and MOTUettes, I ask you kindly to please review my newly uploaded version of Me TV.  I'm still awaiting my first advocate.  See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=712.
<frenchy> If you're not a MOTU then maybe you just ignored it.  I'd still really appreciate your feedback.
<RAOF> frenchy: Oooh, it's a request for review, rather than a "try out my cool stuff" :)
<frenchy> RAOF: I've gotta go but flick me an email with any comments, I'd really appreciate them.
<RAOF> frenchy: I'll see if I can get around to it.
<frenchy> RAOF: Is there something that I need to say?
<frenchy> RAOF: I'll be back on later.
<frenchy> RAOF: Sorry, gotta go ... life gets in the way sometimes.
<jdong> StevenK: ok, upstream in several places typedefs Int32 to int and uses that to perform intense calculations like SHA1sums
<jdong> StevenK: Heh I'll test kt more extensively on 64-bit but I wouldn't be surprised if its performance is much worse than on 32-bit
<StevenK> jdong: Yay
<StevenK> Isn't a short int 32 bits on 64 bit arches?
<jdong> StevenK: I'm not too familiar with x86-64
<jdong> StevenK: but I'm suspecting an int to not be 32-bits
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% ./size
<StevenK> sizeof(int) = 4
<StevenK> sizeof(short int) = 2
<StevenK> So it is.
<RAOF> Yup
<jdong> hmm so int is 32-bits on x86-64?
<RAOF> Assuming sizeof(char) = 8 bytes, yes.
<RAOF> (A perfectly reasonable assumption, but not officially standard).
<jdong> thanks
<jdong> is long 64 in lm and 32 in regular?
<StevenK> RAOF: 8 bytes?! 8 bits, maybe?
<jdong> StevenK: he uses galactic unicode :D
<StevenK> Muaha
<persia> jdong: Yes, long int is full word size
 * RAOF is on x86-512 :P
<jdong> lurn sumthin new every day :)
<StevenK> jdong: long int is 8 bytes
<persia> StevenK: Even for ia32?  I've seen long int pointers work in ia32...
<RAOF>  /me wonders why people don't use the standard int types.
<StevenK> persia: This is on amd64
<persia> StevenK: Right.  "long int" = 1 word (32/64/128/256)
<StevenK> sizeof(long int) == sizeof(int) on ia32
<StevenK> (So, as persia says :-)
<persia> Actually, I've never tested that on a 256-bit machine.  Long int might only be 128 bits there
<StevenK> Which machine has a word size of 128 bits?
<StevenK> Aside from RAOF imaginary one.
<persia> StevenK: A few in the HPC zone.  NEC has a couple, crusoe used to be one.  Nothing standard.
<StevenK> Ah. Nothing 'regular people' can get their hands on
 * persia notes really old Honnywells used to have a word size of 60 bits
<persia> StevenK: crusoes were in consumer devices for a couple years, untili transmeta got out of the HW business.  NEC stuff is trickier to get.
<StevenK> Why would crusoes have a word size of 128 bit, though?
<persia> StevenK: It's a VLIW chip that runs ia32 in software emulation.  I don't know why they chose 128 bits, but apparently it almost worked for them.
<StevenK> Oh, that's right. I forgot Crusoes were really special
<RAOF> They just didn't quite have the money to go after the market they really were suited for, which was high-performance stuff IIRC.
<persia> Actually, I really liked them for low-power stuff, but everyone was focused on HMDs, which are just clunky.  Now that we have small 200DPI screens, the handhelds are interesting again (and there are no crusoes)
<slangasek> to ensure available space for both their transness and their metaness
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RAOF> Hawdy bddebian
<bddebian> Hi RAOF
<ScottK2> persia: I saw you set the gaphor won't start bug to triaged and unassigned yourself.  Does it still not start?
 * ScottK2 tries it.
<persia> ScottK2: It still doesn't start.  Last I looked (~6 weeks back), upstream was releasing about once a week, and I couldn't get the snapshots available working.  I'm planning to try again in the future, but don't want to block anyone else's effort if they are motivated.
<persia> More critically, the problem is well understood: it just needs some work: I don't think "new" is correct.
<persia> CÃ©dric was working on gaphas a bit more since I looked last, and I'm planning on pushing a 10x or 11x into the repos for hardy even it doesn't work, as the current version is just too old.
<bddebian> persia: I have a new game for ya to debug for me ;-P
<ScottK2> persia: OK.  Makes sense.
<persia> bddebian: Which one this time (and do I get to forget conquest and scorched3d) ? :)
<bddebian> SilverTree.  New package
<bddebian> And of course not ;-P
<persia> ScottK2: Most of the Ubuntu changes are in Debian, so we should be able to sync, although I won't want to wait for Debian after DIF.
<persia> bddebian: OK.  What does it need?  (I am blind at this time of day)
<bddebian> To work :-)  I finally got it building but now I get an error about an empty wml file on startup
<persia> bddebian: What is a wml file?  Some internal xml?
<bddebian> Seems so.
<persia> Does it give a filename for the missing file, or just say "Can't load WML" or something similarly unhelpful?
<bddebian> Pretty much that unhelpful :-)
<bddebian> wml parse error: 'empty wml file'
<ScottK2> persia: Does it still not work if built for python2.4?
<persia> ScottK2: 9.4 or so works fine with python2.4, but it doesn't use gaphas, which is the current model.  9.x is also not supported upstream.  8.x doesn't work with modern python-gtk.
<persia> bddebian: Yep: there's no scenarios in the upstream SVN.  Write a plot :0
<ScottK2> persia: What about the 10.4 we have in the repos?
 * persia looks
<bddebian> Oh, scenarios, wtf
<ScottK2> Since it depends on Zope and Zope only works with 2.4 (IIRC), I think any hope of getting with working wtih 2.5 is forlorn at this point.
 * ScottK2 needs to go put kids to bed.  See you later.
<persia> ScottK2: Right.  I forgot about that.  That doesn't work either: it has a zope problem, and uses gaphas 0.2.x (I just asked for the gaphas 0.3.x sync recently, so it needs a bump, if nothing else).
<ScottK2> persia: ^^^
<ScottK2> OK
<ScottK2> Well I'd stick with Python 2.4 until Zope gets fixed for 2.5 (don't hold your breath).
<persia> ScottK2: It doesn't need to depend on zope, but that's a different issue.  I'm putting it off until DIF, and will examine it again then.
<ScottK2> Ah.  OK.
<ScottK2> See later.
<ScottK2> .. you ..
<bddebian> Later ScottK
 * jdong eyes persia for suggesting backporting iscsitarget O_o
<jdong> looks like a hairy package to touch
<persia> jdong: Erm.  Read that again: I remember saying "Don't do that - it's stupid.  Also, fix gutsy now, and then do something else", but in a polite way.
<jdong> persia: yeah, upon close read I detected "not gonna happen"
<jdong> I'll comment on the bug too
<persia> jdong: You've already rejected the backports task: let's keep it trim for the SRU.
<bddebian> persia: Where do you see that there are no scenarios?
<jdong> persia: ok, agreed
<persia> bddebian: I can't find any?  (only looking with svn web gateway for a few minutes).
<persia> bddebian: I suspect they'll be packaged alongside, as with wesnoth, and so might be hidden somewhere.
<bddebian> I'll be damned if I can find them
<persia> bddebian: Right.  didn't Baby say something about upstream not being ready yet?  Did that get sorted?
<bddebian> Well according to the site and Forum it's supposed to be playable
<bddebian> Of course the upstream tarball is b0rked
<persia> bddebian: Hmmm.  The wiki has some guidelines and examples for wml files, and apparently it's format compatible with wesnoth.  I wonder...
<bddebian> persia: yeah, it's the same devs as Battle for Wesnoth
 * StevenK kicks autoconf
 * bddebian kicks StevenK
 * persia  watches two more versions climb out of the hedges...
<bddebian> ?
<StevenK> bddebian: So you're an old, buggy evil shell script?
<StevenK> Although, persia has a point.
<bddebian> Well I'm old and American so some might call me evil
 * persia thinks bddebian is sufficiently unpredictable to be hard to write in shell: likely requires something more expressive.
<bddebian> brainfuck? :)
<StevenK> I can replace bddebian with a shell script
<StevenK> #!/bin/sh
<StevenK> echo "Complain about $SOMETHING"
<StevenK> exit 0
<bddebian> hahahahaha
 * StevenK ducks
<bddebian> You got me there
<persia> StevenK: The art is defining $SOMETHING, and having the alioth and REVU plugins
<StevenK> Okay, so I add a second line, ". /lib/persia/bddebian-funcs"
<persia> Right.  I can't implement that in /bin/sh, but that's mostly a matter of not knowing higher curl syntax.
<StevenK> persia: Dare I say ruby? :-)
<persia> Probably could do it in Ruby: I don't know the http client syntax there either, but the interface is cleaner than pulling curl output into buffers in shell.
<bddebian> Actually I think StevenK nailed me in one line :-(
 * persia defers to the voice of experience
<bddebian> Hmm, maybe this sucker just isnt ready for prime time
<persia> bddebian: If you're feeling especially motivated you could ping them, but I doubt they'll get it clean enough in the next month.  Let's check again in mid-Jan: perhaps it'll be easier then (and we should still have time to get a sync in before FF).
<bddebian> persia: I already pinged the guy about the shitty tarball release ;-)
<persia> bddebian: Right.  That works then.  Maybe we'll get it sooner :)
<jdong> Dear Anonymous Upstream Author:
<jdong> Curse and screw you, with all respect, for packaging your sources as a tarbomb.
<jdong> Love, jdong.
 * jdong goes purge like 200 new files from his /tmp
 * persia wants a tar switch which applies dpkg-style mangling to the extraction location automagically based on the tarfile name
<jdong> persia: yes, or at least a "bomb defuser" switch to tar that refuses to extract when more than one entry is in the top-level-directory
<persia> jdong: I was reading the docs recently, and -C might help, but I can't figure out how to get it to extract so that one level up from $(CWD) is guaranteed to be the start of the branching tree.
<jdong> persia: -C sets a new root directory to extract into, same as navigating PWD to one level higher
<persia> jdong: Still, gives some bomb protection :)
<jdong> persia: I think I might hack up something for myself that just parses a tar -t type output to perform that sanity check
<persia> jdong: Pass me the wrapper if you get one that's reasonably robust.
<bddebian> jdong: Forward that to silvertree too will ya? ;-P
<jdong> haha
<jdong> you were bitten too?
<jdong> persia: I'm thinking of something like "bombsquad tar xzvf foobar.tar.gz", (1) create new dir with temporary name (2) extract to that dir (3) Check # of 1st level entries, if more than one rename tempdir to tarball_name, if one then move that entry into ../
<jdong> persia: should be reasonably robust
 * Hobbsee waves
<persia> jdong: Maybe: my worry in that case would be user error or assignment of tmp directories (/tmp may be on a different filesystem).  Take a look at dpkg - it's really smart about it, and can handle lots of different formats if asked nicely.
<jdong> hmm I'll have to look into that
<RAOF> Heya Hobbsee.
<persia> jdong: Also, dpkg gets hit with 15,000 different kinds of wrapped tarballs, from every imaginable source: even if you do go with bombsquad, it might contain some pointers for corner cases.
<jdong> persia: yeah, I'll have to look into some of its heuristics
<LaserJock> we darn it, my printer still doesn't work
<LaserJock> *well
<LaserJock> I wonder if an update killed it somehow
<RAOF> Dear deluge.  Please *release* the libtorrent you're based on, so I don't have to watch g++ grind through boost's mega
<RAOF> -templates
<persia> RAOF: Don't they use a specific alternate libtorrent?  I thought I saw something about some other software using the same variant in the last couple days.
<jdong> persia: yeah, we talked yesterday about that
<RAOF> Yeah, there are apparently 2 libtorrents.
<jdong> they use libTorrent, while rtorrent uses Libtorrent
<RAOF> However, I *think* the libtorrent in universe is the one they use.
<RAOF> Except that they don't.
<RAOF> Alternatively, they could stop using boost/templates/c++.  That would also cut down the build time :)
<jdong> RAOF: alternatively, transmission could just Replaces: deluge-torrent and we'd be done.
<jdong> :D
 * StevenK is pondering trying transmission
 * RAOF aptitudes...
<jdong> StevenK: whole heartedly recommend it
<jdong> 0.93 is even better
<jdong> 0.91 is okay if you are not using a router
<persia> jdong: But everyone uses a router (unless they're just torrenting around the flat)
<StevenK> jdong: Does it suck less than ktorrent? :-)
<jdong> persia: meh I just plug a switch into my wall. I don't see why y'all need these NAT things. ;-)
<jdong> StevenK: I'm supposed to be unbiased and love and feed all the torrent clients ;-)
<persia> jdong: Ah.  NAT != router, but  I now understand.
<jdong> persia: pfft mr. technical. I can play that game too
<jdong> *finds his compiz bug report*
<StevenK> persia: Exactly, NAT and routing are very different.
<StevenK> jdong: Then get Transmission 0.93 into Hardy
<StevenK> (And then backport it)
<jdong> StevenK: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/transmission_0.93.dfsg-1.dsc <--- authentic jdong crack ready for Debian :)
<jdong> StevenK: silly you for not suspecting jdong has fresh crack for everything ;-)
<StevenK> jdong: Do you need a sponsor for that? What's left?
<jdong> StevenK: I don't know how transmission manages themselves in Debian. I think they have a VCS... dunno who to contact
<jdong> I'm pretty sure just uploading that will piss off the maintainers
<StevenK> Right
<bddebian> What else is new? :-)
<minghua> http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/transmission.html says they use collab-maint SVN.
<jdong> bug 155666
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155666 in compiz ""Desktop Cube" is geometrically inaccurate" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155666
<jdong> *grin*
<minghua> So there is actually good chance you can just upload it (through correct procedures, of course).
<StevenK> jdong: The Maintainer is Philipp Benner, you could mail him
<Amaranth> jdong: Can you do an avant-window-navigator backport as soon as it gets in hardy? :)
<jdong> Amaranth: I'd love to
<Amaranth> jdong: I need one less reason for people to use broken crap from trevinho's repo
<persia> jdong: That's a good bug, but upstream.  You've complained there as well?
 * StevenK cackles at jdong's compiz bug
<jdong> persia: haha , nah, a few grins is enough ;-)
<jdong> StevenK: I'll poke him
<persia> jdong: No, you've a valid point: it's worth following up: miseducation rarely is properly disabused.
<jdong> hehe
<jdong> if you're serious then I guess I could pursue it upstream :)
<jdong> much to Amaranth's disbelief :)
<bddebian> persia: Actually I think silvertree might actually "work"
<persia> bddebian: Do you just stuff it with the base WML from the wiki?
<bddebian> Gah kids, bbiam
<StevenK> persia: Would you consider 'find $(CURIDR) -name 'Makefile' | xargs $(RM)' as makey enough?
 * StevenK adds -print0 
 * persia doesn't understand why nobody seems to like "-exec $(RM) {} +".  It does the same thing in less memory.
 * minghua wonders what are the translations for compiz's "cube"...
<jdong> persia: people like one tool per job, and xargs is familiar, I guess
<persia> StevenK: No: it's shell.  On the other hand, it's nearly a nice clean one-line shell call, and not worth complaining about.  There's a make function that generates that list, so you can do $(RM) $(function args) which is even cleaner, but I'd have to test the syntax.
<StevenK> persia: Ah, but xargs will bundle up arguments, -exec {} \; doesn't
<jdong> minimizing forking vs memory consumption... which is more important...
<persia> jdong: Perhaps.  I think it's also that "-exec {} +" has only been around for a few years, and most people are still trying to avoid "-exec {} ;" which is ugly.
<StevenK> Hum. Bugger.
<StevenK> I need it to ignore ./Makefile, but delete every other
 * minghua doesn't know about "-exec {} +".
<jdong> I think StevenK needs to monitor free memory and forking speed in realtime and decide which one to use on the fly :)
<jdong> *hides*
<persia> jdong: That's the "-exec {} ;" vs. xargs argument.  "-exec {} +" wins, by being the best of both.
<jdong> persia: what's the difference between + and ;?
<jdong> persia: does + string the arguments together?
<persia> jdong: + acts like xargs, inside find.  ; iterates.
<StevenK> persia: I only know '-exec {} \;' is it '-exec {} \+' ?
<jdong> persia: fascinating. Why didn't I get the memo on this sooner? :)
 * persia wanders away, suggesting man pages.
<persia> StevenK: Yes.
<StevenK> persia: Danke, I shall use that
 * minghua blames find(1) man page for putting "-exec {} ;" above "-exec {} +". :-P
<StevenK> OH! -execdir!
 * jdong looks at violating xserver-xgl's sanctity.
<jdong> oh wait.
<jdong> ## 01-compalloc-faster.dpatch by John Dong <jdong@ubuntu.com>
<jdong> looks like I already did it earlier
<jdong> when did I do that? :D
<StevenK> Muahaha
<jdong> look at me thinking one step ahead of myself.
<jdong> just unfortunate it's my past self from 2 release cycles ago doing the foresight.
<RAOF> jdong: *Ages* ago.  You were touching xgl well before me :)
<RAOF> For Feisty, IIRC.
<jdong>  -- John Dong <jdong@ubuntu.com>  Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:35:24 -0400
<jdong> yeah, while back
 * jdong wonders what to violate next....
 * LaserJock backs away slowly
<StevenK> jdong: There's your answer. Violate LaserJock until he posts Ponies!
<jdong> LaserJock: oh yeah speaking of d and f orbital hybridization....
<jdong> (haha kidding. I'll do it myself this time :D)
<LaserJock> jdong: phew, I thought you were going to start asking about HOMOs and LUMOs
<jdong> LaserJock: fortunately this assignment is due on Wed, so disappear come 24 hours from now :)
<LaserJock> np
 * jdong goes stare at that avidemux package on REVU
<jdong>  -- Matvey Kozhev <sikon@lucidfox.org>  Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:49:54 +0600
<jdong> LucidFox... sounds very familiar
<jdong> I'll assume he's workin hard on it
 * RAOF crosses deluge-torrent off his todo list.
<jdong> RAOF: ooh shiny new deluge crack?
<bddebian> @#$$%^ stupid piece of shit
<jdong> ok, the PPA documentation is not very explicit....
<RAOF> jdong: Shiny new deluge *sync*
<jdong> so what distros can I target via PPA?
 * jdong wants to move backports testing onto PPA
<Hobbsee> jdong: anything supported.
<jdong> is there any way to associate a bug to an upload to track build status?
<jdong> without closing it, a la LP: #foo?
<jdong> and thirdly, can PPA packages be removed?
<RAOF> Not really
 * jdong tries a PPA "backport" for fun and games :)
<StevenK> jdong: You need to file an Answers request and then wait, if I recall
<jdong> StevenK: heh well if it's a pain for them to do it on their end, I'd rather not make it a regular part of the process
<jdong> do I always have to use -sa for the .changes or will it pick from even Hardy orig.tar.gz's for an upload at Gutsy?
<RAOF> jdong: You mean to PPA?
<jdong> right
<RAOF> It won't pick up anything from the standard archives.  I've never tried to target the same source at two targets though.
<Hobbsee> you need to name them differently.  it wont work.
<jdong> ok, I'll try with -sa and see what happens
<jdong> whoo, note how my CPU And hard drive don't suffer for testing anymore :D
<jdong> but it will spam ~ubuntu-backports-testers :D
<jdong> poor saps.
<jdong> good time to hack together some automated diffing/analysis tools for Backports too
<bddebian> persia: Sorry, back you still around?
<persia> bddebian: No, but just back.
<bddebian> So, the piece of shit has hardcoded relative paths.  scenario.cfg does things like terrain='data/terrain.cfg'
<bddebian> But the damn thing still core dumps on me
<persia> bddebian: Got a stack trace?
<bddebian> No :)
<persia> Is it one of those bugs that only happens when you don't run GDB?
 * persia solicits input on nifty ways to extract stacktraces from coredumps
<persia> TheMuso: Looking at it later, the old code ought to work for epochs (I'll try a test later), as the only thing it gets from the changelog is the revision, and the epoch applies to the version.
<bddebian> Man, I just suck
 * LaserJock is embarassed to find the reason why his printer wasn't work for a few days
<bddebian> Unplugged? :)
<LaserJock> almost
<LaserJock> two black USB plugins
<StevenK> The cord was plugged in, but not making contact?
<LaserJock> 1 for mouse, 1 for printer
<LaserJock> printer went into the KVM :/
<StevenK> Muahaha
<bddebian> heh
<StevenK> I'm sure the KVM had lots of stuff to print out
<LaserJock> but since I plugged the mouse into the computer thinking it was the printer it worked
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> zomg python must die
<imbrandon> i broke it again
<StevenK> Just because you can't program in something doesn't mean it needs to die.
<persia> imbrandon: Implement a request-response stateless system in Ada.  After that, python will feel good again.
<imbrandon> heh
<persia> Does anyone know what happened to the vague murmurings of syncing into the archive from PPAs?  Is that considered a bug that it doesn't work?  A feature because such syncs should never happen?
<Hobbsee> er....i think that they might be able to do it now.
<Hobbsee> unsure.
<Hobbsee> the bug was solved, or almost solved.
<persia> Hobbsee: So it's considered a bug if it doesn't work?
<imbrandon> persia: yea they SHOULD be able to sync from any apt repo, from what they told me
<imbrandon> last time i asked
<imbrandon> now if they choose to sync from particular repo is diffrent
<Hobbsee> persia: i think so.  it also affects partner
<persia> Right.  Sounds like there is a mix of a couple bugs an unclear policy.  That's somewhat what I remembered, only in more detail.  Thanks.
<Hobbsee> persia: you shouldnt expect better from soyuz :)
<persia> Hobbsee: I expect soyuz to work perfectly, do everything I want, give me all the information I find interesting, and have eight nines uptime.  I may be disappointed once in a while, but if I expect less, it's just not fair to what it could be.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> well, this is true
<StevenK> Eight nines? What's that, 5 seconds per year downtime?
<Hobbsee> persia: in a few weeks, i'll probably be very interested to find otu what sort of info you'd find useful,e tc.
<persia> StevenK: About that.  I've only heard of two shops reaching nine nines, and that was expensive, (mostly about geodistributing redundant servers), so I can't expect everything :)
<persia> Hobbsee: My current wishlist is mostly in the QA list.  I could make some more, but I'lll have to stick that lower in the queue.  That timeframe sounds around right.
<StevenK> I would have thought anything past six nines would be acceptable
<Hobbsee> persia: mmm kay.  i'll poke you about it in a few weeks
<persia> StevenK: Two 5 minute maintenance windows?  If the app can do that, no reason not to rotate things out live and go for higher numbers, but sure.
<TheMuso> persia: Ok.
<gnomefreak> anyone know a way to avoid the following error while taring up a dir tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors   im using tar -cvzf tarball dir, it worked for nss but fails on nspr and ff3.0
<persia> gnomefreak: That just means tar is stuck from something else, try without the "v", and see if the errors are more informative.
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: have a look at what the previous errors were
<gnomefreak> also worked for xulrunner
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: i didnt see them
<gnomefreak> wait maybe i did because i used tar -cvvf to start with but failed to build because it complained it wasnt a gzip tarball
<gnomefreak> tar: nspr-4.7.0~cvs20071106t1834/.pc/30_pkgconfig.patch/mozilla/nsprpub/config/nspr.pc.in: Cannot open: Permission denied
<gnomefreak> without v
<gnomefreak> maybe removing .pc dir will help?
<persia> gnomefreak: There you go.  "v" is sometimes interesting, but it usually spews so much you can't tell what's going on.  If you really want to look, I'd suggest only using "v" with "t".
<persia> or changing the permissions thereof.
<gnomefreak> should .pc be in top level dir?
<gnomefreak> ---------- 1 gnomefreak gnomefreak 0 Nov 19 20:02 nspr.pc.in
<gnomefreak> it has no permissions how does that happen?
<minghua> nice file.
<minghua> :-)
<gnomefreak> lol
<gnomefreak> i guess removing .pc will help than building with -S -sa will add it if needed
<nand`> dear MOTUs, I'm looking for a second advocate for the ike package please. Thanks! ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ike )
<jdong> LucidFox: ah thought that name was familiar, thanks for taking on the avidemux merge :)
<jdong> LucidFox: one favor, I recently merged a new x264 into Hardy, can you version your libx264-dev build-dep (>= 1:0.svn20070930) so we make sure to build against that new version?
<LucidFox> jdong> sure
<Fujitsu> keescook: Thanks for that rather large number of security uploads!
<Fujitsu> emgent: That gallery2/reupload diff you attached isn't particularly useful - the WebDAV CVEs also need to be fixed, and it includes a lot of extra changes.
<LucidFox> jdong> uploaded
<LucidFox> I can't test-build avidemux right now with the new x264, though, so I can't guarantee if the new upload will build
<LucidFox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux
<persia> LucidFox: Is that a new upstream pull?  If so would you mind knocking out the lintian messages?
<LucidFox> persia> I knocked out all lintian messages I could find
<LucidFox> the only one remaining is "no manpage for binary avidemux" in the transitional package avidemux, but it depends on avidemux-common, which provides the manpage
<persia> LucidFox: There are a couple more in the URL you just posted: outdated autotools hint files which can cause FTBFS, and broken releationships (which don't really matter in Ubuntu anyway).
<LucidFox> Autotools aren't used
<LucidFox> In 2.4, upstream provides a choice between autotools and CMake, and my packages use the latter
<persia> LucidFox: OK.  Strange to see config.{sub,guess} if they aren't used.  Nevermind.
<persia> Right.  That explains it.  Nevermind :)
<jdong> LucidFox: if you are otherwise ready and not gonna make major packaging changes, I'd be glad to test locally whether they FTBFS or not for you :)
<jdong> LucidFox: thanks for your work on avidemux :)
<LucidFox> Why does the new x264 build-depend on GTK?
<jdong> LucidFox: there is some graphical x264 frontend thingie that's now in the x264 binary package
<jdong> christian marillat's decision :)
<LucidFox> ah
<LucidFox> okay, I'm now building Avidemux with the new x264
<jdong> LucidFox: fantastic, good luck ;-)
<jdong> LucidFox: I provide no guarantees they are API compatible; if you have more than trivial struggles with it poke me and I'll take a look
<frenchy> Hi RAOF ... Sorry back now.
<RAOF> frenchy: That's OK.
<frenchy> RAOF: So, are you a MOTU?  It's really hard finding a MOTU with a DVB card.
<RAOF> Yeah, I am.
<frenchy> RAOF: Woo-Hoo!
<RAOF> Although for most of the review process you won't need a MOTU with a dvb card.
<RAOF> Much of the packaging stuff can be done without testing the app itself.
<StevenK> jdong: So does an amd64 .deb of transmission 0.93 exist anywhere? :-)
<frenchy> RAOF: but you really can't run the application without a DVB card.  Also, from a previous question I asked, MOTUs are actually meant to test the application as well.
<jdong> StevenK: build it in a pbuilder, you're a developer :)
<StevenK> jdong: I'd rather someone else did the work. :-P
<jdong> haha
<frenchy> RAOF: I doubt that I'm going to get many advocates when people can't start the application.
<jdong> oh look at StevenK with his fancy fast 64-bit computer making others build for him ;-)
<StevenK> I can't build, ktorrent takes all of my CPU. :-P
<RAOF> frenchy: Yeah.
<persia> frenchy: No, but you'll get packaging comments, and when the packaging is perfect, then you need advocates.  If you get your DVB people now, you may have trouble getting them again later.
<persia> (although it is REVU day, so people should REVU)
<RAOF> jdong: You can throw a source package at me if you like.
<jdong> RAOF: I've already thrown one at StevenK ; http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/transmission_0.93.dfsg-1.dsc
<frenchy> persia: Hi again, I think that I'm all shibby with the packaging now.
 * persia prepares a pastebin...
<frenchy> persia: what TZ are you in?  You're on 24/7/
<persia> frenchy: No, actually, I'm on at random times: you just get lucky (UTC+9)
<persia> !info liibxine-ffmpeg
<ubotu> Package liibxine-ffmpeg does not exist in gutsy
<persia> !info libxine1-ffmpeg
<ubotu> libxine1-ffmpeg: mpeg related plugins for libxine1. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.7-1ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 435 kB, installed size 908 kB
<frenchy> persia: After googling pastbin ... was that comment meant for me?
<LucidFox> jdong> the new Avidemux successfully built with the new x264
<persia> frenchy: Not yet: let me build a list first...
<jdong> LucidFox: fantastic.
<frenchy> persia: Sorry .. a list of what? ... issues?
<persia> Yep.
<frenchy> persia: Let me grab the hammer and duct tape.
<frenchy> Frenchy likes to fix.
 * Fujitsu wonders what the release policy for ubuntu-dev-tools is.
<StevenK> There's a policy?
<RAOF> jdong: Does the transmission deb want to contain something more than the changelog?
<jdong> RAOF: huh?
<RAOF> jdong: I've just built transmission, and the arch-all package contains just /usr/share/doc/transmission/{changelog, README, etc}
<jdong> RAOF: transmission-{gtk,curses}
<jdong> trnamission is metapackage
<RAOF> Aaaah.
<frenchy> persia: What I don't understand is that I've seen other packages in universe that are in a lot worst state than mine.  klear doesn't even have GPL headers.  Sorry klear dudes, awesome app.
<jdong> RAOF: haha you nearly gave me a heart attack :)
<StevenK> RAOF: What did you build it for? :-)
<RAOF> StevenK: Eeeh, to see if it works? :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Which release/arch?
<jdong> grr rmadison is slow today
<StevenK> % time rmadison -u ubuntu libc6 >/dev/null
<StevenK> rmadison -u ubuntu libc6 > /dev/null  0.05s user 0.02s system 2% cpu 2.740 total
<StevenK> Is it?
<StevenK> ubotu: Shut up
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about shut up - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<StevenK> Hah
<jdong> StevenK: maybe I'm trying blackhole packages :)
<persia> frenchy: 15 quickies at http://paste.ubuntu.com/2108/
<frenchy> persia: UTC+9 are you yet another Australian?
<frenchy> persia: ooo ... thanks I'll take a look.
<LaserJock> frenchy: there are a lot of them huh? crazy aussies
<highvoltage> LaserRock
<persia> frenchy: Yes, there are worse apps.  If you want to clean one, nobody will complain.  We just don't want more ugly ones :)
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<frenchy> persia: Can I respond to your comments here?
<persia> frenchy: Sure.
 * jdong resyncs gtkpod-aac with latest debian release :)
<frenchy> Why xine frontend?
<Fujitsu> jdong: Shouldn't it be in sync with our gtkpod?
<jdong> Fujitsu: it was 2 debian versions behind, debian separated out their patches into dpatches too like us, and added one bugfix patch
<jdong> StevenK last resynced against -2 in Debian, I brought it up to -4
<RAOF> StevenK: amd64, hardy.
<StevenK> RAOF: Gah. I wanted amd64 gutsy :-)
 * Fujitsu whines about lack of ponies.
<persia> frenchy: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-November/002617.html (about libxine)
 * StevenK joins Fujitsu and whines at LaserJock 
<RAOF> StevenK: I can do that if you like.
<StevenK> RAOF: You rock :-)
<highvoltage> Hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> sorry guys, got a 12am presentation. it's gonna be a late night as is
<LaserJock> I was up til 4am last night working on a stupid Fortran program
<LaserJock> and got it fixed about 4pm this afternoon
<Fujitsu> Fortran sounds great. My father is always complaining about it.
<LaserJock> turns out I was averaging 9 data points instead of 10
<frenchy> persia: debian/copyright ... just the last two lines?  Are they the only extraneous parts?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: it works really well if you know how to use it well
<LaserJock> I'm just not that great with it
<jdong> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45201/
<persia> frenchy: I think so: check http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html
<jdong> can someone look at that diff for me?
<jdong> debian made some changes to the .desktop file and I'm not sure which ones to keep
<jdong> "  * Adapted .desktop file to current freedesktop standards.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Those changes are both correct.
<LaserJock> jdong: yeah, that's ok
<jdong> Fujitsu: ok, will apply
<jdong> thanks :)
<persia> jdong: Encoding and Application are deprecated.  I don't see much value for GTK as a caegory: that's more an OnlyShowin thing
<persia> jdong: Also, drop the .png on the icon
<jdong> persia: ah, ok
<jdong> persia: drop the .png extension?
<jdong> persia: will the icon be found correctly?
<LaserJock> jdong: it's smart :-)
<persia> unless you could otherwise sync (and yes, if it is in the icon cache)
<jdong> LaserJock: haha, ok :)
<RAOF> StevenK: www.cooperteam.net/transmission-gtk_0.93.dfsg-1_amd64.deb and stuff?
<persia> jdong: Don't forget dh_desktop and dh_icons
<minghua> Does Ubuntu's dh_desktop do anything special other than updating MIME database these days?
<StevenK> RAOF: Yay!
<jdong> persia: is removing Homepage: from the description field and replacing it by a Homepage: tag correct for Hardy?
<Fujitsu> jdong: Sorta. We don't have the right dpkg yet, IIRC>
<persia> minghua: No, and it's not likely to diverge from Debian.  The only Ubuntu developer hacking it is pushing things in Debian first.
<persia> jdong: Yes.
<persia> Fujitsu: A merge is planned RSN :)
<persia> (plus we need to schedule an update to packages.ubuntu.com, etc.)
<StevenK> RAOF: $beers_owed++;
<RAOF> StevenK: Surely $beers_owed--; :)
<StevenK> RAOF: It's a note that I owe you another :-)
<minghua> Don't we need the correct dpkg first before using Homepage: field?
<persia> minghua: We're already syncing heaps of packages that use the Homepage field.  Trying to manage that is just too painful.  We'll get a few warnings, and then it gets fixed.
<Fujitsu> Thankyou Launchpad:
<Fujitsu> Accepted: mplayer, mplayer, mplayer, mplayer, mplayer, mplayer
<Fujitsu> How understandable.
<persia> heh
<jdong> Fujitsu: haha
<TheMuso> heh
<jdong> persia: is dh_icons + dropping .png applicable to Debian too? shall I push that upstream?
<StevenK> jdong: dh_icons is
<minghua> persia: I was thinking that without the new dpkg, the generated control files may be lacking fields or something, but probably that's not the case, or it doesn't matter.
<LaserJock> jdong: you should be able to push the drop of .png as well I think
<persia> jdong: dh_icons is, but Debian supports more window managers, and I'm not sure they are all freedesktop compliant.  I usually push it, and it gets adopted > 50%.
<jdong> persia: ok, thanks, I'll give it a shot
<persia> minghua: It would be too much work to matter, and it shouldn't break anyway: Debian can't expect to rebuild everything for lenny.
<minghua> persia: Huh?  How is rebuilding lenny relevant to the topic at hand?
<persia> minghua: The dpkg transition will have been started in such a way as not to break.  This is especially true as > 5% of Debian was using Homepage: as a full header before there was dpkg support.  This is partly because of how Debian operates.  Because they are so good, we don't need to be quite as careful to manage these things (usually).
 * jdong figures out how StevenK did this gtkpod-aac.diff thing without self-recursing :D
<persia> If the dpkg / Homepage transition was hard, every "complaint" package would need a rebuild for Lenny, which would make someone very happy with mass-bug.
<persia> s/complaint/compliant/
<minghua> persia: Hmm.  I didn't know people started using Homepage field before dpkg supported it.
<LucidFox> by the way, jdong, since you seem to be interested with iPod videos
<persia> minghua: Yep.  Read debian-policy@ archives or policy / dpkg bugs sometimes.  It's always entertaining.
<jdong> LucidFox: owner of one, trying to make things easier for fellow owners
<LucidFox> I just converted a video with Avidemux's iPod profile, processed with MP4Box -ipod and uploaded with gtkpod, and it played perfectly
<jdong> LucidFox: the types of video formats that they take is not trivially obvious to deduce or produce
<jdong> LucidFox: that's great to hear
<jdong> LucidFox: what video codec do they use?
<minghua> persia: Err... I think I'll pass.  I have better ways to kill time. :-)
<frenchy> persia: my code is on LP, not a browse-able FS ... I don't think that the watch file will work.
<persia> frenchy: Read about uscan's screen-scraping functionality (man uscan)
<persia> frenchy: As long as you can identify a stable page, and a regex to match the link, you're all set.
<LucidFox> jdong> Avidemux uses Xvid
<jdong> LucidFox: oh that's disappointing
<LucidFox> by default, 320*240, 400 kbps, no B-frames
<LucidFox> but I changed the resize filter to 640*480 and it still played
<jdong> LucidFox: meh xvid profiles are boring, I want to see them vindicate their manhood by doing an H.264 baseline no-complexity profile
<jdong> LucidFox: the iPod will accept XVid 640x480@~2000kbit with no or 1 B-frame
<jdong> (don't ask. trial and error.)
<frenchy> persia: Where can I find info on the current file formats?  I'm using http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide and I think that its version of the menu file might be old, I think.
<RAOF> Anyone want to be a second advocate of avant-window-naviator?
<persia> frenchy: /usr/share/doc/menu/menu.txt.gz on a gutsy, hardy, lenny, or sid system ought have it.
<jdong> whee gtkpod-aac resynced & uploaded; thanks persia Fujitsu LaserRock_70s for your guidance :D
<persia> frenchy: You might also want to run linda and lintian (preferably hardy versions) on your binary changes file.
<frenchy> persia: I didn't even have menu, linda or lintian installed.  Shows how much I know about this whole process.
<jdong>   xmms-dev: Depends: xmms (= 1:1.2.10+20070601-1) but it is not going to be installed
<jdong> hmm that's an odd failure in hardy, *investigates*
<persia> jdong: buildd skew?  NBS change?
<jdong> persia: yeah gonna look in a hardy pbuilder to see if I can reproduce
<persia> jdong: You might find it faster to check the buildd queue and NBS list.
<jdong> persia: what's a NBS list?
<persia> jdong: Top canonical link on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ : packages that oughtn't exist anymore as the source builds something else now.
<persia> (but, since they have rdepends, the rdepends need porting to remove the package)
<jdong> persia: yeah it's libglib1.2 on that list, xmms depends on it but it's changed names
<TheMuso> jdong: Do you ever sleep?
<Nafallo> :-)
<jdong> persia: is uploading a rebuild of xmms enough?
<Nafallo> morning
<jdong> TheMuso: hehe I should be asleep right now!
<TheMuso> jdong: I thought as much.
<TheMuso> I honestly don't know how you people manage to stay up so late.
<jdong> TheMuso: simple. we suck at waking up the next day.
<TheMuso> heh
<persia> jdong: No idea: I haven't looked at the issue.  You'll want to check https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue, and the buildds, and the NBS list, and rdepends of things.  Sometimes a rebuild fixes it, but usually changing something else lets them all fall together.
<TheMuso> I'm quite the opposite. I'm a morning person.
<lifeless> which TZ though
<TheMuso> Morning Australia/Sydney.
<LaserRock_70s> TheMuso: I'm a morning in Australia/Sydney person too
<TheMuso> Heh if you want to put it that way. :p
<jdong> persia: hmm gonna try a rebuild locally to see if it does any good
<jdong> and go to bed while that builds
<persia> jdong: OK.  I suspect it's because of a conflict related to xmms-crossfade, rather than xmms itself, but that might work.
<jdong> persia: no, it's xmms I'm fairly certain. It tries to install libglib1, which is a transition package, which tries to install the new pkgname, which conflicts with libglib1
<frenchy> persia: how do I supply source for graphics?
<jdong> I'm pretty sure if we build again we'll hit the correct libglib package name and break the cycle
<persia> jdong: In that case, it's not xmms, it's all the other reverse dependencies of libglib1 :)
<jdong> persia: I think it's supposed to happen though because the ABI of the glib changed
<persia> frenchy: .fig, .svg, .xpm, and I'm sure there are others.  That's one of the least important items, as most people don't really mind editing .pngs.  If you have a large format you're shinking to make the icon, that's a nice target as well.
<persia> jdong: Yep.  If you're feeling motivated tomorrow, and want to push a rebuild of them all the problem would go away :)
<jdong> persia: O_O :D
<pkern> What's up with r-core-*?
<persia> pkern: A little more info might be helpful...
<pkern> Apart from a missing newer ocaml I had quite some rebuild failures with r-core-* and old glib stuff...
<jdong> persia: are rebuilds automated/scripted or done by hand?
<pkern>                                                       
<pkern>   r-base-core: Depends: tk8.4 (>= 8.4.16-2) but it is not installable
<persia> jdong: By hand.  We upload new revs (-Xbuild1 if no other changes) with a changelog entry explaining why.  If we can hit another couple bugs along the way, it looks nicer.
<jdong> persia: ah, ok :)
<persia> pkern: Might have something to do with tk8.5?
<pkern> Hm.
<codemaste1> hi
<codemaste1> how can I remove a package that I submitted?
<persia> codemaste1: To where did you submit it?
<minghua> persia: Shouldn't be.  Surely tk8.3, tk8.4, tk8.5 are parallel installable?
<jdong> persia: ok, I'll push thru xmms tonight so it stops blocking faad2 and the entire new media stack, and tomorrow I'll look at the other million packages on the list :D
<pkern> persia: Missing merge of new tk8.4?
<persia> minghua: Right, but perhaps the R maintainers are using the latest tk, and only half the suite has been rebuilt.
<persia> pkern: That might do it as well.
<TheMuso> jdong: I've been meaning to join the MOTU media team. Where is help needed?
<TheMuso> As I'll probably be able to knock some stuff over tonight.
<persia> jdong: I thought there were only about 300.  If you don't mind porting them to GTK2 as well, it'd be a great help :)
<jdong> TheMuso: siretart would be the expert on that, but currently I'm getting a bunch of new mp4 related stuff in
<TheMuso> jdong: ok
<jdong> TheMuso: of all things stupid xmms is the bottleneck :D
<TheMuso> What? That piece of crap? Who cares about xmms. :p
<persia> TheMuso: There's a bit of the xine-lib transition outstanding, if you like.
<TheMuso> persia: Is that just rebuilds?
<persia> TheMuso: and adding a front-end dependency.
<TheMuso> Which front-end?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Upstream's not dead!
<Fujitsu> It still releases once every 1112 days.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I know.
<jdong> ok *now* seriously, bed for me!
<Fujitsu> jdong: Famous last words.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Night.
<jdong> night!
<persia> TheMuso: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-November/002617.html
<TheMuso> persia: ok thanks. Will have a look a little later.
<persia> TheMuso: No rush, just the only MOTUmedia think I had in mind :)
<TheMuso> persia: Ok.
 * TheMuso is still undecided as to what to do re the query I raised in -devel last night.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Which?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Fun with .la files, and a package build not seeing that a .la file was moved from /lib to /usr/lib
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<TheMuso> And the incorrect location is listed in the dependency_libs field, which causes a frontend package for the main package in question to FTBFS.
<Fujitsu> Fun.
 * pkern hopes that his lappy arrives today... or tomorrow... or the day after...
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Oh yeah. Just what I'd call fun. :p
<LaserRock_70s> dang it I hate OO Impress
<Fujitsu> LaserRock_70s: What's with the nick?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Read Planet
<LaserRock_70s> Fujitsu: see Planet
 * Fujitsu does so.
<StevenK> Hah
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<geser> Fujitsu: have you seen that WP has a new security hole?
<Fujitsu> It was read for some reason - Liferea doesn't like vanishing regularly.
<Fujitsu> geser: Really? That makes 43.
<siretart> TheMuso: you're interested in MOTUmedia?
<geser> Fujitsu: http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/483927
<Fujitsu> geser: I'll start rolling up updates for Feisty/Gutsy tonight, and the others at some point.
<TheMuso> siretart: I think we talked about it at UDS, yes I am, and I have been meaning to join.
<siretart> TheMuso: aah, then you've heared the discussions crimsun and I had about the team, did you?
<Fujitsu> geser: Thanks, I'll add that to The Bug.
<TheMuso> siretart: I think so, but if I did, I can't remember them. :p
<Fujitsu> Ah, not even a CVE yet, which is why I haven't seen it.
<siretart> TheMuso: we were wondering if the team was worth to have, since there isn't too much action going on there
<TheMuso> siretart: Thats right, I remember now.
<siretart> TheMuso: we decided to keep it for 2 reasons: grouping bug reports of multimedia related packages and PPAs
<LaserRock_70s> Fujitsu: LWN.net had it in the RSS today
<minghua> Is patch available for the wordpress bug now?
<dholbach> good morning
 * minghua checks.
<dholbach> LaserRock_70s: ROCK!
<LaserRock_70s> morning dholbach
<dholbach> how are you guys doing? :-)
 * Fujitsu checks how many WordPress CVEs affect Gutsy.
<TheMuso> dholbach: Greetings.
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<siretart> TheMuso: well, I assume that you want to use the PPA, right?
<TheMuso> siretart: Right.
<siretart> TheMuso: welcome on board then! :)
<TheMuso> siretart: The PPA was the last thing on my mind actually.
<minghua> Still no patch in sight.
<siretart> k
<Fujitsu> minghua: Great...
<minghua> I wonder how Fujitsu is going to roll up updates...
<geser> Fujitsu: it will become CVE-2007-6013
<Fujitsu> geser: Where did you get the reference?
<Fujitsu> minghua: Well, I'll prepare the other 9 CVEs for Feisty and 1 for Hardy, and throw the new one in when I see a patch.
<geser> Fujitsu: from http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sjm217/advisories/wordpress-cookie-auth.txt
<LaserRock_70s> it'd be nice if we had a good way of letting users see that we've got these kinds of fixes in
<minghua> Fujitsu: Nice.  I am just happy I have nothing to do with wordpress.
<LaserRock_70s> I think they tend to just look at the version
<Fujitsu> geser: Right, I see it on Mitre now too.
<persia> Don't we have a security notification feed?
<Fujitsu> persia: Only for amin.
<Fujitsu> s/amin/main/
<Fujitsu> We need universe-security-announce or so once we actually have some reasonable support.
<persia> Right.  What does it take to add an RSS feed somewhere and populate it for universe?
<Fujitsu> persia: We'd need a somewhere.
<persia> Ah.  "reasonable support".  That goes back to needing a security / updates team, no?
<TheMuso> siretart: Thanks.
<persia> Fujitsu: Maybe we could ask ubuntuwire
<Fujitsu> persia: Perhaps.
<Fujitsu> persia: We have a security team, but it seems to only consist of \sh and myself...
<persia> Fujitsu: I thought there was going to be marketing & announcements & stuff.  How many people do you want?
<Fujitsu> And we have literally a thousand CVEs to go through.
<Fujitsu> persia: I might actually get around to writing an announcement to -motu tonight.
<persia> Fujitsu: OK.  If you've 1000 issues, I'm guessing you need 6-10 relatively active people?
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, but that's not going to happen.
<LaserRock> Fujitsu: it's not?
<LaserRock> you might be surprised if you market it
<frenchy> persia: With the funny libxine thing, does that mean that I'll have to maintain 2 versions of the control file now?
<Fujitsu> We can't pull much of several people's time out of the dev. release.
<persia> Fujitsu: I think 4 should be easy, and maybe 5.  Clearing the backlog will be painful, but maybe keeping up will be possible.  Due to the excitement of announcements, you might even have 7 or so for a few weeks.
<persia> frenchy: How do you mean?
<Fujitsu> persia: Keeping up should be practical eventually
<frenchy> persia: Well there's no libxine1-x in Gutsy.
<LaserRock> Fujitsu: well, I think many people care about security, they just don't know what exactly needs to be done and how to do it
<LaserRock> a nice task list and some documentation would probably go a long ways
<frenchy> persia: So I need a control file for gutsy and a control file for Hardy with libxine1-x.
<persia> frenchy: Ah, yes.  You'll want a slightly different package for gutsy than for hardy.  Alternately, use a versioned OR for stability (see the Debian bug).
<Fujitsu> LaserRock: True. It looks like ubuntu-cve will be developed further soon, which will help.
<gaspa> persia: bip. ;)
<gaspa> do you know exactly what doesn't work with clive and python2.5?
<persia> gaspa: I think it just didn't run.  I don't remember why.  Let me check if I left a useful note.
<gaspa> persia: the bug report tells simply that "it doesnt' work"
<gaspa> because the new version seems to work, at a first sight
<gaspa> (python2.5, of course)
<SWAT> when I build a package named package_0.08-0 the source gets included. If I use package_0.08-0ubuntu1 instead, I get: "dpkg-genchanges: not including original source code in upload". Since I build this package from scratch for Ubuntu, I would like to include the source. Any tips?
<persia> gaspa: Excellent.  I don't appear to have left any good notes, but the upstream changelog looks promising.  If it runs for you in hardy, and can play YouTube and GoogleVideo, you can request a sync.
<persia> SWAT: debuild -S -sa
<gaspa> persia: great. I test it a little more...
<persia> gaspa: Thanks for looking into that.
<gaspa> persia: ;)
<SWAT> persia, thanks again.
<soren> nealmcb: I've not yet reached a verdict :)
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReportingPage looks awesome this month
<dholbach> lots of activity
<huats> morning dear MOTUs and wanabees :)
<dholbach> heya huats
<huats> hey dholbach
<huats> dholbach: I was looking at dad yesterday. Do you min if I look at the jokosher merge ?
<dholbach> huats: not at all, not even if you replace my name in the maintainer field - the only problem is that the tarballs differ
<dholbach> huats: let me know once you've done something, I'll review it for you
<huats> dholbach: I didn't went inside to have a look. I just saw that you were the last uploaders
<huats> dholbach: I'll have a look tonight
<huats> and I let you know
<dholbach> rock and roll
<huats> :)
<gaspa> persia: do you think it's enough? (bug #164021)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164021 in clive "sync version 0.3.1-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164021
<gaspa> also with a build log.
<persia> gaspa: You'll want to change the title to note that clive is going into (universe) from (main).  Take a look at some of the bugs in https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive for an example
<persia> gaspa: You'll want to mention which version of clive didn't work with python2.5 in gutsy.
<gaspa> ah, ok
<persia> gaspa: And you'll want to include the Debian changelog since the last sync in the description as well.
<persia> gaspa: Other than that, it looks good.  Please push to the sponsors queue when you make those changes: I won't sponsor (as it's mine), but I doubt it'll take more than a few hours.
<Fujitsu> Has anybody else seen any security uploads announced to -changes since 2007/10/23 (ie. just before LP 1.1.10)?
<geser> I don't remember seeing any
<Fujitsu> I can't see any on any of them, in the past month, when there are normally lots... Oh dear.
<gaspa> persia: thanks. :D
<s1024kb> \sh_away: hi
<s1024kb> luisbg_: hi
<geser> Hi s1024kb
<s1024kb> geser: hi. do you use jabber?
<luisbg_> hey s1024kb, how are you?
<luisbg_> and hello to the rest of the room also ;)
<s1024kb> luisbg_: hey, fine, thanks. i uploaded my first package "yappy" today finally...
<luisbg_> s1024kb, cool! my congrats
<geser> s1024kb: yes, why?
<s1024kb> geser: it was the first time i use jabber (\sh suggested yesterday), and i added you guys... :-)
<s1024kb> luisbg_: thanks.
<effie_jayx> Quick question guys... I am currentlyworkning on a real update... all updates should be hardy obviously right?
<geser> s1024kb: I have seen your authorization request now, and acked it
<effie_jayx> dch -i creates an entry with gutsy in the new version... but hardy is the next release
<effie_jayx> but would it build ?
<Fujitsu> effie_jayx: That's because you're using Gutsy's dch.
<Fujitsu> hardy is correct.
<geser> effie_jayx: yes, all updates (except SRU obviously) should target hardy
<effie_jayx> now
<effie_jayx> would it build ?
<geser> effie_jayx: either install devscripts from hardy, update the distribution by hand or set an alias
<pwnguin> effie_jayx: is your pbuilder hardy or gutsy?
<effie_jayx> pwnguin,  gutsy
<geser> effie_jayx: for a pbuilder the distribution in the changelog doesn't matter
<s1024kb> geser: haha, sorry, i changed to a new account... and added you again. :-)
<effie_jayx> I remember downloading pbuilder for gusty before...
<effie_jayx> I can't quite remember
<pwnguin> effie_jayx: apparently it doesnt matter
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> I shall try it
<pwnguin> it should build and test fine, but MOTU is now at the stage where only stable release updates are accepted into gutsy. ideally you'd be setting up a hardy pbuilder and testing on a hardy install
<effie_jayx> pwnguin,  any leads as into how to build my hardy pbuilder
<pwnguin> the wiki has a section on keeping multiple chroots around, ive not set it up
<effie_jayx> ok
<pwnguin> i just upgraded to hardy like an hour ago
<geser> pwnguin: how much is broken currently?
<pwnguin> nvidia's totally busted
<pwnguin> i havent looked into it yet
<geser> effie_jayx: look at the pbuilder-dist script from ubuntu-dev-tools
<pwnguin> otherwise, it basically is a lot like gutsy
<pwnguin> not much happened during the freeze i guess
<effie_jayx> geser,  I will check it know ... I am at that very step now...
<pwnguin> oh, i guess i do tend to throw things into my ppa when they wont make it into official relases on time
<pwnguin> so theres a few new toys like CellWriter.
<geser> effie_jayx: you need to debootstrap from gutsy-backports or hardy to create a hardy pbuilder
<geser> need to install *
<pwnguin> geser: apparently the gdm failsafe is not quite ready
<s1024kb> luisbg_: do you have a jabber account?
<luisbg_> s1024kb, yes... bethencourt@gmail.com
<s1024kb> luisbg_: add you too. :-)
<luisbg_> s1024kb, ok!
<pwnguin> geser: i take that back. gdm just decided to go nuts on reboot
<effie_jayx> another question... if this is a new upstreeam version
<effie_jayx> the name  is 3ubuntu1
<effie_jayx> what would the new name be?
<geser> effie_jayx: -EPARSE, do you want to upgrade an existing package to the next upstream version?
<effie_jayx> geser,  yes, that's right
<geser> -0ubuntu1 as there isn't a Debian release for this version yet
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> thanks geser
<effie_jayx> heh
<effie_jayx> package doesn't build
<effie_jayx> lot's of warnings and the there is an error
<geser> Hi norsetto
<norsetto> heya geser, how is it?
<dholbach> hey norsetto!
<norsetto> dholbach: morning master!
<geser> norsetto: good, but I got a cold :(
 * dholbach hugs norsetto
 * dholbach hugs geser too
 * dholbach makes some tea
 * geser hugs dholbach back
 * norsetto hugs dholbach and geser (and get a cold in so doing :-))
<effie_jayx> so if I get an error building and it seems to be a code problem
<effie_jayx> a variable not declared it seems
<geser> fix it :)
<norsetto> geser: fix id ;-)
<effie_jayx> geser,  ok
<effie_jayx> geser,  the error is this ... 'ctx' undeclared (first use in this function)
<effie_jayx> could it be that I am missing some dependency?
 * effie_jayx check the depends line
<effie_jayx> geser,  build depends on libclamav-dev
 * effie_jayx has found the glitch
 * proppy hugs dholbach
 * dholbach hugs proppy back
 * proppy hugs the big N
<proppy> (norsetto)
<s1024kb> norsetto: hello my teacher. i had uploaded the package... will be concentrate to the next one.
<norsetto> heya proppy!
<s1024kb> proppy: hi, nice to meet you again.
<norsetto> s1024kb: ok good, you have subscribed the sponsors?
<effie_jayx> nope that eas not it
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes.
<effie_jayx> http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/45215/ <---- here is the output if anyone can help me identify
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | http://www.ubuntuwire.com is back!
<effie_jayx> there must be a problem with a library and vairables not being read
<norsetto> s1024kb: hmmmm, can you give me the bug number?
<s1024kb> norsetto: maybe there will be errors inside it, but i wish to learn from the errors... Wish to work better next time.
<s1024kb> norsetto: ...
<s1024kb> norsetto: the bug number? (sorry, i know that my English is really bad, after thinking for quite a while...)
<persia> effie_jayx: The only problem worth looking at for a start is the one on line 145.  If you can track down why it's not finding those libraries (missing build-dependency?, source structural changes?), I suspect a lot of the getline_ssl stuff will make more sense.
<norsetto> s1024kb: yes, you have written a bug report requesting the merge?
<effie_jayx> persia,  ok I'll see what I can do
<s1024kb> norsetto: sorry...
<norsetto> s1024kb: well, how did you upload it then?
<s1024kb> norsetto: dput revu *_source.changes ...
<norsetto> s1024kb: oh right, but revu is not for merges, its only for new packages, or updates
<norsetto> s1024kb: you should open a bug report, and attach the debdiff to it
<s1024kb> norsetto: i will try to. :)
<norsetto> s1024kb: do you know how to open a bug report?
<s1024kb> norsetto: not yet. i will read the documentations later at home...
<proppy> hi s1024kb
<norsetto> s1024kb: can you use a web browser now?
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes.
<norsetto> hmmmm, revu nuking seems to be out of order
<norsetto> s1024kb: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
<norsetto> s1024kb: you have the debdiff already?
<persia> norsetto: Just archive it gently with a comment: no need to nuke :)
<effie_jayx> persia,  I am a bit lost ... to find structure changes, what do I use.. .a debdiff between .dsc's?
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes.
<persia> effie_jayx: I'd need more context: what are you trying to accomplish?
<norsetto> s1024kb: good, you may want to look to some other merge request to see how it is done
<norsetto> s1024kb: let me fetch one for you
<effie_jayx> persia,  an update of this p3scan... from 2.1 to 2.3.2
<s1024kb> norsetto: finally got the web page open... this evening the speed is very low here in my office.
<s1024kb> norsetto: thanks.
<norsetto> s1024kb: well, take it easy, no need to hurry up
<s1024kb> norsetto: :)
<effie_jayx> persia,  i followed this update bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/p3scan/+bug/133802
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133802 in p3scan "Please update to newer stable version for SSL support" [Wishlist,New]
<norsetto> s1024kb: this should be a good example (I hope): bug 163271
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163271 in xulrunner "Please merge xulrunner 1.8.1.9-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163271
<persia> effie_jayx: To examine the differences in the packaging, take a look with `interdiff -p1 -z old.diff.gz new.diff.gz`.  To examine the differences upstream, extract each of the orig.tar.gz files with `tar xzf`, and use `diff -urN old.orig new.orig`.
<s1024kb> norsetto: sorry, can't see it on the page?
<norsetto> s1024kb: let me know once you have done it and we will look at it together
 * persia thought there was a better command to diff tarballs, but cannot remember it just now
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay, found it. sorry.
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay, many many thanks. :)
 * Fujitsu attempts to write an email eliciting help with security.
 * persia offers proofreading and editing if desired
<frenchy> persia: Should I sym-link the config.{guess,sub}?
<persia> frenchy: I usually just copy it in from autotools-dev in configure: or makebuilddir/packagename::
<Fujitsu> persia: Thanks, I'll pastebin it in a sec.
<persia> frenchy: More generally, those are the porting scripts: if the application is to be compiled on a new platform, it likely wants new hints, so it's nice to have that happen automatically, rather than requiring a manual refresh.
<persia> (the counterargument is that it's more difficult to guarantee a repeatable build with changing hints, but I believe that we rebuild often enough not to hit this too much).
<Fujitsu> persia: http://pastebin.com/d586748f0
<persia> Fujitsu: Mind if I try for something a little more upbeat?
<Fujitsu> persia: Sure, I'm not good at writing announcements, or much, really.
<persia> Fujitsu: No worries.  I suck at actually generating meaning
<persia> Fujitsu: Is there a team name that will be used for this?  motu-swat?
<Fujitsu> persia: That would be the universe security team, yes.
<Fujitsu> Not that it actually does anything...
<persia> Fujitsu: Of the active security chasers, one is a motu-swat admin, and the rest aren't MOTU yet, so I'd say the team's doing OK, but has a few inactive members :)
<Fujitsu> persia: I guess.
 * persia attempts to inject yet more upbeat cheer, but suspects people would be more useful
<effie_jayx> persia,  shall give that a wack after I drop my daughter off school...
<persia> effie_jayx: No rush: SSL is nice, but daughters are nicer :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Haha.
 * Hobbsee waves
<Fujitsu> Evening, Hobbsee.
<persia> Fujitsu: Just to confirm, there's no ML at this point, right?
<Fujitsu> persia: Correct.
<\sh> moins
<Hobbsee> hey \sh
<Fujitsu> Hi \sh.
 * persia declares paste.ubuntu.com annoying for this sort of thing
<Fujitsu> persia: Lack of linewrapping?
<persia> Fujitsu: http://pastebin.com/d4445b8a0 is a first draft.  Takes away the "dire situation" bits, and tries to be inviting.  I think it needs more in the third paragraph, but I'm not sure of the workflow: giving a little instruction to help get people started would be good.
<Fujitsu> persia: That looks much better!
<persia> Fujitsu: I have the advantage of not actually being under that weight of CVEs :)
<Fujitsu> I note that the CVE tracker has been around for 2.5 years, but I'm not sure how old the new incarnation is, nor where its existence has previously been documented.
<persia> Fujitsu: Shhhh!
<persia> (although maybe "recently" could be dropped)
<Fujitsu> Right.
<persia> \sh: You seem to be an expert on these things: would you be up for running a class on patching CVEs sometime this week or next?
<\sh> Fujitsu, what's up with the cve tracker?
<\sh> persia, I'm far away from an expert...I'm just using my skills and read a lot of source ,-)
<Fujitsu> \sh: What about it?
<persia> \sh: Umm..  rather you seem to have a good grasp of the related workflow.  I'm not sure everyone does :)
<\sh> <Fujitsu> I note that the CVE tracker has been around for 2.5 years, but I'm not sure how old the new incarnation is, nor where its existence has previously been documented.
<\sh> <persia> Fujitsu: Shhhh!
<Fujitsu> \sh: You mean you didn't know of its existence either?
<\sh> Fujitsu, you mean people.ubuntu.com/~kees/ubuntu-cve ?
<Fujitsu> \sh: Right.
<Fujitsu> Er, except the real one ~pitti/bzr/ubuntu-cve.
 * persia thought pitti's was now the authoritative tree
<\sh> Fujitsu, pitti was running it in former times, since kees and jdstrand were taking over, kees had it on his account
<Fujitsu> \sh: The proper branch is in ~pitti.
<\sh> Fujitsu, the "real" one is not uptodate...regarding the output..but the source is on pittis account
<\sh> Fujitsu, I'm talking about the result of the cve tracker, I think you speak about the source ,-)
<Fujitsu> \sh: Right, Kees said he'll have the output fixed soon.
<persia> Ah, so pitti has the source, and kees has the output?
<Fujitsu> \sh: I speak of the source, right, which is the only valid thing at the moment.
<\sh> persia, well, pitti was adding some code I think...the original code comes from debian afaik...but better to ask pitti
<proppy> where should I report a bug regarding compiz and blender, on compiz bts, or on launchpad ?
<persia> proppy: Both
<Fujitsu> Most of what needs to be done at the moment is triage, anyway.
<proppy> persia: ok :)
<\sh> Fujitsu, do you want to run a self cve tracker? which is quite complicated when I read the documentation of pitti .)
<persia> proppy: Be sure to tell LP about the upstream bug, to help with tracking.
<proppy> I will check if it is already reported
<proppy> blender with compiz enable start without borders
<\sh> persia, I'll try to prepare some docs for this workflow...
<persia> proppy: Also, #ubuntu-bugs is the better place to ask that sort of question next time :)
<Fujitsu> \sh: I have a local branch and am going through triaging various CVEs. Apparently the main branch will be moved to Launchpad in the near future, so more people can commit.
<proppy> persia: o k
<SWAT> how do I add a .desktop file to a package so it will be entered in a menu? Just drop the file in the debian/ dir? Or create a separte directory and create a rule to move the files (.desktop file and icons) to the correct dir upon installation?
<persia> \sh: That'd be great.  An announcement is planned to get some more people involved, but they'll need something to do when they get all excited and want to join.
<\sh> persia, well, it's a hell of a lot "real" upstream svn searching ,-)
<\sh> persia, most people hate this, like i'm hating it ;)
<Fujitsu> \sh: I find that in most cases I can retrieve the patch from another distro or diff between their releases, though with some you're right.
<persia> SWAT: If you're packaging someone else's upstream, it's best to use the debian/ directory.  If you're doing your own, put it somewhere in the tarball, and install with $(MAKE) install.
<Fujitsu> And it is very much hate inducing.
<\sh> Fujitsu, yeah, when other distros are faster then us...
<Fujitsu> \sh: Which is 99.9999999% of the time, or so.
<persia> \sh: That's about what I thought, and why I thought a class might be good: lead a mix of developers and contributors through the workflow, and generate a bunch more bugs for a while.
<SWAT> persia, thanks again
<\sh> Fujitsu, but sometimes you see a fix from another distro and it just doesn't fit for our version, whysoever
<Fujitsu> \sh: That's also true.
<Fujitsu> \sh: A class would be great.
<Fujitsu> We could do with more people.
<\sh> Fujitsu, yeah, I would like to see more security involvement for universe....
<\sh> Fujitsu, I would also propose a separate security archive for universe, so we can inject our security fixes more easily and don't disturb our main security team with this
<\sh> Fujitsu, but I think that's just me ,-)
<Fujitsu> \sh: I think most would agree, but that won't happen. I can see why they would want to keep control over it all.
<\sh> cprov, ping...question about why sometimes I can see -security uploads in -changes and most of the time not. why is that? :)
<Fujitsu> \sh: I filed that earlier.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Since 1.1.10, there have been no notifications from -security.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Bug #164027
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164027 in soyuz "As of 1.1.10, security uploads no longer generate announcements to <distroseries>-changes" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164027
<Fujitsu> Hey, I didn't get that email.
<\sh> Fujitsu, oh...I thought it's just me about this...I work most of the time with the -changes MLs so I don't rely on p.u.c...and when I'm missing an upload, like yesterday the emacs22 fix from the 13th, i'm doomed
<cprov> \sh: well, bigjools and colin are discussing this right now, expect the bug to be updated in a minute.
<Fujitsu> Yay, only a month to wait...
<Fujitsu> cprov: Why does this all have to be private? That's silly.
<cprov> Fujitsu: I don't see anything being treated as *private* in this subject. I just don't want to discuss it twice, which is quite different.
<Fujitsu> cprov: It is private if the discussion is hidden away in #soyuz or #canonical.
<cprov> Fujitsu: no, the bug is public and that is the place for discussion and argumentation (which is quite unnecessary, since you are right) it doesn't depend on anything happen in #soyuz
<Fujitsu> cprov: So the only discussion occuring between Julian and Colin is on the bug?
<cprov> Fujitsu: well, it's about "how to sort the problem in the right way".
<Fujitsu> Right, which should surely be best discussed in a place where the people who are more affected by it (ie. those who don't deal with components with USNs), or those who reported it.
 * norsetto -> food
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: es ist sekrit.  you should leave it alone, before you learn more about soyuz and such than you ever wanted to :)
<Fujitsu> Er, a `can participate or watch' should have been in their somewhere.
<Fujitsu> This brings up another issue: why the $*#($*@#($@# isn't there a damn changelog?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: of?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Launchpad.
<Fujitsu> Other than bzr log.
<Fujitsu> Which we obviously don't have access to.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: apart from the release notes?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i thought all the stuff was documented in the release notes
<Fujitsu> If there are features disappearing, or bugs that aren't milestoned being fixed, we should at least have some notification.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It's not listed.
<Hobbsee> useful.
 * persia wonders if motu-swat could commit to offering peer review of SRUs as well
<Fujitsu> The first reference to it I've seen is Colin's comment on the bug. And I read LP material fairly thoroughly.
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> I'm back at it persia ... let me see what I can pull off
<persia> effie_jayx: Good luck.
<effie_jayx> thanks
<zul> morning
<fernando> moin all
<Hobbsee> LaserRock: poniez plz.
<effie_jayx> persia, +#include "getline.h"  -#include "getline_ssl.h" <--- I found it... it got changed
<persia> effie_jayx: Good work.  That's one of the tricky things about new upstreams: upstream changes things, and the packaging has to be adjusted.
<effie_jayx> persia, so I have to fix source now?
<persia> effie_jayx: I'm actually completely unfamiliar with the specifics of what you are doing, so am not sure.  If you've something that changed, and now it doesn't build, that's something to fix.
<persia> effie_jayx: On a wider note, I must admit I was a little surprised at your choice of order in which to try things, as it appears to be that you're trying some of the harder things first :)  I don't suppose you have time to take a quick look and maybe alter the order?
<Fujitsu> cprov: Are security uploads logged to any other publically visible place?
<effie_jayx> persia,  I actually was hoping someone would help me shape it up... any suggestions? I can surely add those
<cprov> Fujitsu: no
 * Fujitsu blinks.
<Hobbsee> cprov: what would the reason for that be?
<cprov> Hobbsee: I didn't understand your question. I clearly see a reason to provide a package/upload search page where users could select a specific pocket. It would be even better if it was provided as a rss-like feed. it's just not done yet.
<Hobbsee> cprov: what would be the reason that the security uploads are not logged to any publically visible place?
<Fujitsu> It would be better if functionality was replaced before the original was removed, preferably with some kind of notification.
<Hobbsee> unless i'm misreading
<\sh> Hobbsee, sometimes you do security uploads which are still not opened to the public (hint on embargo)
<Hobbsee> \sh: sure, but when the embargo is over?
<Fujitsu> Colin's comment in the bug about embargoes seems invalid; things published to -security are published to the public. Embargoes have already expired.
<\sh> Hobbsee, it's public
<Fujitsu> I would presume this has been rebutted in [insert private channel here], but I really can't tell.
<\sh> Fujitsu, right...embargoed CVEs are still set to private...as pitti mentiones it in his CVE tracker howto
<Fujitsu> \sh: Right, but once they're published by Soyuz, they're surely going to be public.
<cprov> Hobbsee: they are presented, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=3&queue_text=, just not in the ideal way.
<Hobbsee> oh, right, i see
<\sh> cprov, it would just been nice to see -security uploads again on -changes ML...
<Fujitsu> Ah, so there is a list, just fairly randomly sorted and only via the web UI.
<Fujitsu> What was the result of the secret discussion?
<cprov> Fujitsu: DESC uploadtime, doesn't seem random to me.
<Fujitsu> cprov: Right, but uploadtime is mildly randomised.
<Fujitsu> (and all the binaries are separate)
<Fujitsu> It is a workaround, however.
<cprov> Fujitsu: there was secret discussion and if you continue to insist in this point I'm afraid you won't be listened anymore.
<Fujitsu> I presumed as much.
<cprov> err, I meant that "there was *no* secret discussion"
<ScottK> So it's safe to have them on a web page, but a ML is dangerous?
<\sh> stop stop stop
<\sh> I think some things are mixed up now
<Fujitsu> cprov: I'm afraid that I am confused. Your comment some 48 minutes ago to \sh seems to contradict your statement.
<\sh> 1. there are embargoed CVEs standing for source X...which is normal and should be respected
<\sh> 2. there are security fixes which are fixing even those embargoed CVEs...which is quite common, and everybody is doing that
<\sh> 3. even when there is an embargoed CVE listed in the changelog a link to the CVE is included, but no description what the fix does or what the error was (which is also quite common in distro security uploads)
<\sh> 4. everything else is commonly available...
<\sh> 5. all uploads (it doesn't matter which pocket) should be announced on *-changes.
<\sh> there is, agreed, a definition how to deal with embargoed CVEs, and this is still valid, but has nothing to do with the upload message on an ML for informational reasons which package was updated/uploaded...this is only important for people dealing with the distro, not for sysadmins, they are using most of the times the USN or other informations from other sources
<persia> (and sysadmins can see the same changelogs by downloading things in any case)
<ScottK> I'd just like to see an explanation of the change that makes sense.
<cprov> I see this whole thing as something quite simple to solve, we can announce every upload that is about to be published in the primary archive and we will do that ASAP.
<cprov> and you can treat what happen in 1.1.10 as a regression if you like.
<ScottK> cprov: Was it an accident or by design?
 * persia thinks the cause of the regression doesn't matter, so long as there is a near-term plan for a solution
<ScottK> persia: If it was by design, it's not a regression.
<cprov> ScottK: well, I see it as a lack of pre-requisites documentation, but I'm not strong on this, from this point it will be treated  as a new feature.
<ScottK> cprov: What does that mean?
<cprov> ScottK: it means that "It will be fixed in the next milestone."
<ScottK> cprov: That doesn't answer my question then.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: go easy on him, me might just escape the channel otherwise.
<ScottK> cprov: To me, regression is an accident.  It sounds like this was not by accident.
<persia> ScottK: Think viewpoints.  If a change closes a bug, it is good.  If the bug was a bad bug, that's hard to see from some viewpoints.
<cprov> ScottK: well, you can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't change the fact that code will have to be fixed to provide the "feature" you are asking for.
<ScottK> cprov: I'm trying to understand what's going on.
<Fujitsu> persia: There was no bug.
<Fujitsu> Bug report, that is.
<\sh> I think we all have to calm down ... cprov says now, it will be included again, so we wait
<persia> Fujitsu: That's a different problem than the accident / design issue, but yes.
<highvoltage> jono: *hugh*
<ScottK> \sh: That misses the entire point of this discussion.
<highvoltage> jono: oops, ment *hug*
<highvoltage> (for that blog post, I needed it)
<cprov> ScottK: it's simple, you relied in a broken code side-effect (announcements of -security uploads) when the code got fixed this *problem* was gone. Now if you consider that a *feature* it will be added and documented as such.
<jdstrand> \sh, Fujitsu: ubuntu-cve was originally written by pitti.  It was later modified by keescook.  A couple of months ago it was rewritten by keescook (and I wrote some of the helper scripts) to be more like Debian's kernel-sec.  There was not much documentation before the rewrite, and the documentation that exists now is a work in progress.
<jono> highvoltage: no worries, glad it helped :)
<ScottK> cprov: Is there any documentation that I, as a user, could have looked at that would have allowed me to know I was relying on a side effect and not design behavior?
<\sh> ScottK, what is the point? that is was intentional, that this feature was "removed, deleted" or whatever? fact is, it's missing, so there is a bug, cprov now stated, hopefully official, that this will be fixed in the next release.
<persia> Also, IRC isn't the best medium for policy statements.  If the lack of a public set of specs is an issue, that out be raised somewhere less transient.
<persia> s/out/ought/
<cprov> ScottK: no there is no public documentation about what do we expect to be announced and this is a general problem in Soyuz
<\sh> ScottK, regarding LP, please have in mind, it's a commercial project, which has some other needs as other projects. and I don't want to be involved in any decision of the LP project, I just want to work with this tool, because it's the heart of our workflow
<ScottK> cprov: So your statement that it was a side effect and not design behavior is completely opaque to me.
<\sh> jdstrand, thx for the explanation :)
<persia> \sh: Commercial / Free doesn't matter.  It's user communication (as cprov just said)
<ScottK> \sh: Agreed.  I'd like it to actually support the work flow.
<jdstrand> \sh: np
<ScottK> persia: It matters for the visibility into what's going on.
<cprov> ScottK: right, what can I do to clarify this to you ? What are expecting me to say ?
<persia> ScottK: I'd be willing to argue that at some point: consider nethack vs. some of the smaller feature-auction driven programs for Macs, but I've been up to long to do it justice now.
<Hobbsee> cprov: i think it's clear now, but the question is how to make it work better in future - as in, with stuff that we're using that migiht not be intentional
<ScottK> cprov: You clarified it.  There is no documentation about what I can expect Soyuz to do.  You will change $STUFF that's not by design without notification.  So I can't actually rely on it continuing to do anything that's not documented.
<cprov> ScottK: I've already said: 1) It was gone because it wasn't listed as a feature 2) We will fix it 3) to avoid it to happen again we have to provide public documentation (additionally to a  up-to-date test-suite) ... What else ?
<persia> ScottK: that sounds reasonable.  I suspect if you documented it (or convinced someone else to so do), it would be easier to rely upon (not that I know what I take for granted either)
<ScottK> persia: Now we get to the other reason Free/not-Free matters.  I have a consulting rate for design work on commercial projects.
<dholbach> ScottK: come on now... you make it sound as if soyuz only worked by chance, that's completely unfair
<persia> ScottK: That's separate, but valid.
<\sh> ScottK, sure, so this feature was implemented, now it's missing, for what reason ever, and we have one coder here, cprov, who explained to us, that it will come back...this is all we need to know...I know all these things from my actual company...
<ScottK> dholbach: No, I'm saying I've been told that I can't rely on it continuing to do anything that's not documented and there is no public documentation.
<\sh> lack of documentation or lack of documented features is a problem in most companies around the world :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: and the tin foil is in the kitchen.
<SWAT> persia, because I added icons to the debian dir, I get a "dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source". How should this be resolved?
<\sh> cprov, so it will be seen again on wednesday?
<cprov> after all, it was nice to have this conversation and identify and we are missing a *contract* between users and developers, i.e., user-documentation.
<persia> SWAT: uuencode.  Look at flobopuyo
<ScottK> cprov: That sounds reasonable to me.
<cprov> \sh: no, LP is frozen. It will have to be cherrypicked (if we are lucky) next week.
<persia> SWAT: Also, don't ask me: ask the channel.  I'm just ask likely to answer, and won't complain to you about it.
<\sh> cprov, cool :)
<\sh> cprov, btw, I like the CVE parser on edge now :) I was a bit surprised to not have added any CVEs manually during my reports :)
<cprov> ScottK: right, now I ask, how can we collaborate to produce Soyuz user-documentation ?
<SWAT> persia, I just highlighted you, because you gave me the suggestion. Normally I would ask the channel.
<\sh> SWAT, what do you want to do ? deliver a binary blob inside the debian package for installing it?
<persia> SWAT: OK.  Maybe I'm oversensitive because I tend to answer a lot of questions, and so get a lot of unnecessary highlights :)
<SWAT> you are very active indeed
<ScottK> cprov: I don't know.  That's a tough one for me.  I am often stuck in my mind between knowing that if I want LP to meet my needs I need to participate and being unwilling to be a volunteer for proprietary development.  I don't have a good resolution of those two things in my mind.
<SWAT> \sh, add an icon, to the application I'm packaging (for the menu)
<\sh> SWAT, add sharutils to build-deps and uuencode all binary files before in the debian/ dir....add in debian/rules some tasks to uudecode them during build time and push them into the right directory
<\sh> SWAT, take a look at spkg "ipe" I did that there
<SWAT> I'll go and take a look, thanks
<\sh> dholbach, I jsut had a look at launchpad-bugs...you are scraping the html via xpath, right? :)
<persia> \sh: Do you install directly in debian/rules?  I usually uudecode into debian/ and use dh_install to push them where they go.
<\sh> persia, no...I uudecode in debian/ dir and install them in the right location...
<dholbach> \sh: you can also use the method="text" connector, which will make use of pages like:
<\sh> persia, uudecoding is done in the debian/rules file
<dholbach> *let me find the link*
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/bugs/61030/+text
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 61030 in ssed "Mistake in ssed string (dapper)" [Undecided,In progress]
<\sh> persia, depends on the source package actually
<persia> \sh: Right.  From your first explanation I thought you were doing one less step than I, and just wanted to check.
<dholbach> \sh: but the text connector is not fully implemented yet, bdmurray will work on that
<dholbach> \sh: so yes, up until now we use xpath
<cprov> ScottK: so, w/o offending your principles, would you be happy to help us to write  help.launchpad.net/Soyuz/UploadSystem describing how to do an upload and what to expect from it ?
<\sh> dholbach, hmm...we really need something like a xmlrpc interface, or REST or soap...but in the meantime I have to use some of this logic for the UI
<ScottK> cprov: I would be willing to help some.  Given my current work/family commitments, about all I can promise is to review/validate and maybe fill in some holes.  I do not have a lot of time for Ubuntu work right now.
<dholbach> \sh: readonly will work nicely with the next LP release
<persia> Wasn't someone talking about REST/JSON at some point recently?
<dholbach> \sh: it just needs some bits in py-lp-bugs to get fixed (comments, tags, links to attachments)
<dholbach> \sh: xmlrpc/rest/soap/.../... needs fixing in LP first
<Fujitsu> persia: And at most points over the past 2 years, but I should shut up.
<\sh> dholbach, but readonly functions are much more then we have now :)
<dholbach> \sh: hm? I don't understand
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Right.  I'll push it into that filing bin then.  As always, thanks for tracking that so closely.
<cprov> ScottK: ta, that's fine. It wasn't suppose to sound as a personal question, it's fine if you, as the other active MOTU, simply support the general idea.
<\sh> dholbach, some readonly xmlrpc/rest/soap functionality ;;()
<\sh> dholbach, or I misunderstood you now
<dholbach> \sh: look at https://edge.launchpad.net/bugs/61030/+text
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 61030 in ssed "Mistake in ssed string (dapper)" [Undecided,In progress]
<ScottK> cprov: I definitely support the idea of documentation.
<dholbach> \sh: oh sorry: we have read/write using html
<dholbach> \sh: we have partial read-only in the 'text connector' (with the next lp release and some pylpbugs fixing, we will have full read-only)
<Fujitsu> dholbach: The LP change being +bugs-text searching working in 1.1.11?
<dholbach> Fujitsu: and comments/tags/links-to-attachments added
<Fujitsu> Oh, good.
<\sh> dholbach, cool...so I can push this underlaying functionality with a nice GUI into public :)
<dholbach> I think there are some other bits, but yeah, that'll make pylpbugs more reliable and bughelper much quicker
<\sh> something like kbugbuster for LP :)
<dholbach> \sh: great - once the 'text connector' works OK, the only necessary change for you will probably to use "method='text'" somewhere :)
<\sh> dholbach, for generating new bugs, I'll rely on mail with gpg...this will also help people to come to terms with gnupg and keymanaging
<dholbach> \sh: if you use Bug.New() you will get the bug number bug, etc
<dholbach> \sh: and you don't need a configured MTA
<cprov> dholbach: based in what we have discussed, do you approve https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SoyuzUserDocumentationDraft page as a place to we can collaborate ?
<dholbach> just your lp cookie somewhere
 * gnomefreak has a stupid question, i added export LANG=C to ~/.bashrc and i dont see all chars correctly seems like it turns off UTF support but g-term still shows using UTF-8
<dholbach> cprov: not sure if it should live in the MOTU namespace, as it affects all areas of Ubuntu
<gnomefreak> i added export LANG=C for chroot lang. warnings and it got rid of them
<ScottK> cprov: dholbach has a good point I think.
<dholbach> cprov: but I guess it's going to live on help.launchpad.net in the future anyway, right?
<\sh> dholbach, well, TBH, everyone has a SMTP server somewhere, with TLS etc. and this is a simple adjustment in our perl code :)
<ScottK> It should probably relate under the Ubuntu Development pages that dholbach has been doing.
<\sh> dholbach, lpbugs.py (the old version) had this functionality already :)
<cprov> dholbach: exactly, MOTU would host a draft.
<dholbach> a sub section in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive ?
<ScottK> Sounds reasonable to me.
<dholbach> \sh: your choice, I prefer to not have a local smtp or configure apps to use an SMTP I might have somewhere
<cprov> yup
<gnomefreak> can i replace the C with ALL maybe?
<ScottK> cprov: Please give us a link here when you've started the page (I'll subscribe to it).
<cprov> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive/SoyuzUserDocumentationDraft
 * ScottK subscribes.
<Hobbsee> ich auch.
<persia> Moi aussi
<norsetto> persia: are u working on bug 163727 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163727 in timidity "soundfont does not seem to get automatically installed" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163727
<persia> norsetto: Not actively: do you know someone who wants it?  It's in large part a search effort, as most soundfonts aren't DFSG-free, and freepats isn't quite good enough.  On the other hand, I am correctly assigned to that bug.
<persia> Ideally, someone would generate a full XG soundfont & publish under a permissive license, but as even getting the XG spec costs, that's not likely soon :(
<\sh> Hobbsee, are you learning german? ,-)
<Hobbsee> \sh: no, i learnt parts of it a few years ago.  however, i've always come up with that phrase before the english equivalent.  unsure why.
<persia> Because "I also" sounds funny and "Me too" is ungrammatical?
<\sh> me too is aol slang ,-)
<persia> \sh: It was common inappropriate use for decades before AOL :)
<txwikinger2> Hehe.. the only words my son knows in German are "Finger weg"
<\sh> > sugar@aol.com wrote: >> I need pr0n sugar2@aol.com wrote: > me too ! ,->
<persia> (sufficiently so that most native speakers of English don't immediately understand "I also")
<Hobbsee> \sh: also, when iv'e been greeting people too much, i tend to automatically switch to german.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, i come up with i also, and then go "um, huh?
 * \sh needs a pause
<txwikinger2> :D
<txwikinger2> Did dholbach already announce when the motu question time will be this week?
<persia> txwikinger2: There's a post on planet (although I must admit I don't remember)
<dholbach> txwikinger2: Friday, 12:00 UTC
<dholbach> txwikinger2: still need to send a mail out
<persia> dholbach: That's the same time as the MOTU Meeting...
<dholbach> ngh, not again
<Hobbsee> persia: people have learned to clone themselves.
 * dholbach pedals back and makes it 13:00 UTC
<persia> dholbach: MOTU Meeting has been bouncing between 12:00 and 20:00 for a while.  Do you want a change maybe so there's not a conflict next month?
<dholbach> persia: maybe I'll move it to 13:00 generally
<persia> dholbach: Thanks: 13:00 gets pretty late in Australia in the Summer.
<dholbach> persia: I hope that we'll find people who are willing to run it at another time
<dholbach> we had it at 0:00 and 12:00 UTC for a while
<persia> dholbach: Q&A sessions?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> I'm happy to do the the ones that are good for european folks
<persia> Do we have any demographics on interested parties?  I'm a big fan of asking questions here whenever, but do agree that sessions sometimes help.  On the other hand, I don't know how many interested parties we have from APAC.
<dholbach> now that we have more people joining the Q&A sessions and broad announcements
<dholbach> we also have announcements in the packaging section on the forums
<dholbach> but I can't tell you how many APAC people we'd have there, if Q&A sessions were later
<persia> I think the promotion is working well, I just don't know from where they come, and times convenient over here aren't typically useful for North or South America.
<dholbach> do you think other times than 0:00 and 13:00 UTC would work better? it was just my initial idea
<\sh> grmpf....what do I do? I don't have any sponsors  to cheer for MOTUship ,-) I'm stucked now with my application for motuship
<persia> I'm also not convinced we've that many non-Australians from APAC, as the localisation over here is significantly weaker than for Europe / Americas.
<txwikinger2> Thanks dholbach
<persia> \sh: I'll cheer you.  I've seen acceptable work from you for quite a while, and seem to have your address in my sponsored patch archives (you'll still need more)
<ScottK> \sh: Did you apply again?  If you didn't, please do.
<\sh> persia, I'll add kees to my sponsors ,-)
<\sh> ScottK, no I didn't apply again..not yet
<ScottK> \sh: OK.  When you do, please CC me on the application so I can be sure to endorse it.
<\sh> ScottK, will do...
<\sh> persia, thx
<persia> dholbach: The dual nature of w.u.c/MOTU/GettingStarted and w.u.c/MOTU/Contributing was just pointed out to me.  Any thoughts on merging the two?  If left to my own devices, I'd be tempted to push the content from Getting Started into Contributing, and use the GettingStarted path (with a redirect from Contributing due to external links).
<dholbach> persia: what I like about GettingStarted is that it's a relatively short guide that links to all necessary steps along the way
<dholbach> persia: do you think we can conserve that idea somehow?
<mok0> dholbach: too much information might turn people off
<dholbach> mok0: exactly
<persia> dholbach: Hmm.  I'm not a fan of short pages, but I agree that a lot of that is "right now" information.  Perhaps keeping a lot of that on the top, and tailing it with MOTU/Contributing content (with some wording changes (and yes, I don't mind processing: you're busy))
<ScottK> dholbach and persia: Please, if you can, make it even more clear that the mentors program is totally and completely optional.  I still (as recently as the last week) get e-mail about "What can I do if I don't have a mentor yet".
<\sh> cacti CVE-2007-6035
<persia> Ah.  There's that.  I guess I'm mostly not happy with the fragmentation.
<ScottK> mok0: Hello.
<\sh> and fixed for gutsy now
<mok0> ScottK: hi
<dholbach> ScottK: that page only contains ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com
<ScottK> dholbach: I'm just saying.  I made some wiki page changes after the last mail I got to try and make it even clearer.
<ScottK> I think people don't feel sufficiently free to just contribute as they are able.
<persia> dholbach: I guess the other reason I'm not happy about GettingStarted is that there appears to be a lot of focus on new packaging, and we've heaps of maintenance to get done: I'd much rather channel people into fixing existing bugs and helping bugsquad whilst they learn, rather than encourage new packaging (which is rarely done will without seeing the work of others).
<mok0> dholbach: clear is good. And not having to look many places for info is good. But I think a Quick-Start version should be retained.
<DaveMorri1> In the following debian\rules file what do I need to make config.status depend on for the patches to be applied before the configure command? http://pastebin.ca/790632
<dholbach> ScottK: right, I do that already, when I come across it; for example I copied your FAQ bit from UbuntuDevelopment/FAQ to MOTU/FAQ or the other way around yesterday
<dholbach> persia: that's why I referred to both Bugs and NewPackages
<persia> DaveMorri1: You really don't want to mix CDBS and raw debhelper.  The answer is likely "patch", but you really want to do it differently.
<dholbach> persia: also I added that packaging a new piece of software might not be the easiest thing to start with
<dholbach> persia: if you have ideas on how to make that more prominent, I'm happy to add that
<Kmos> CVE-2007-6035
<Kmos> \sh: !cve 2007-6035
<ScottK> DaveMorri1: What persia said.  If you look at man dpatch it's got a decent example of how to integrate dpatch into debian/rules
<Kmos> !cve 2007-6035
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about cve 2007-6035 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<persia> dholbach: I see those, but I'm also seeing a lot of people packaging new software who have trouble generating a patch, which worries me because 1) I'm not confident of maintenance, and 2) it adds to the REVU burden.  I'll go think some more, and see if I can come up with something useful.
<dholbach> persia: I'll change the sentence mentioning new packages.
<persia> dholbach: Part of it is that I don't want to create a page that has all the links, and big warning labels everywhere: gets into a "boy who cried wolf" thing.
<\sh> Kmos, it's not listed on mitre...but on NVD :)
<persia> No need to change the sentence: it's not important enough right away, and won't fix my issue.
<Riddell> norsetto: ping
<Kmos> \sh, ah ok :)
<norsetto> riddell: pong
<Riddell> pyelemental depends on libelemental-dev, is that in hardy?
<dholbach> persia: I'll think about what we can do with /Contributing
<\sh> Kmos, debian security tracker looks also for nvd it seems ;)
<norsetto> riddell: yes, but is not yet built, is part of the gelemental package that you (or somebody else) took out of NEW this morning
<DaveMorri1> hmmm, I liked they way it was easy to do patches in cdbs
<persia> ScottK: Just as an aside, I think of the mentors mailing list as possibly distinct from the Mentoring program: they aren't sufficiently staffed to distinguish well today, but consider the first as a slower version of what we do here, and the second as one-on-one guidance (although I hope the new process is adopted).
<persia> DaveMorri1: Then just do it all in CDBS :)
<norsetto> Riddell: thank you for taking care of that :-)
<DaveMorri1> yep I guess.  I still need to use that custom configure command so how can I tell that to depend on the patches or if I do it the cdbs way will it automatically happen?
<ScottK> DaveMorri1: If you do it with traditional debhelper it'll be more complicated to set up, but much clearer what's actually happening.
<ScottK> DaveMorri1: IMO, CDBS is good for straightforward things that just work.  Once you start wondering "How do I get CDBS to ..." you don't have to go far down that road before you're better off with debhelper.
<DaveMorri1> how come you can't use the cdbs patch system with debhelper then?
<ScottK> DaveMorri1: Integrating dpatch into a debhelper debian/rules takes a bit of thinking, but actually using it is easy (dpatch-edit-patch).
<mok0> DaveMorri1: use dpatch
<ScottK> That's like saying how come Perl code doesn't work in a Python program.
<mok0> :-)
<Riddell> norsetto: all looks fine, accepted
<persia> DaveMorri1: You can, but you'd need to learn heaps of the CDBS internals, which even most CDBS packagers hide from.
<StevenK> ScottK: The other way around can work ...
<DaveMorri1> no, because my package builds
<ScottK> It's kind of orthogonal, but possible if you work at it.
<norsetto> riddell: thanks, appreciate it
<elkbuntu> ScottK, yeah.. when are you going to fix that bug? :Ã
<DaveMorri1> I'll check out using dpatch and going all cdbs and see which I perfer
<DaveMorri1> thanks for the tips
<dholbach> norsetto: congratulations to pyelemental in the archive! :)
<mok0> I added quite a bit of CDBS info on the wiki some days ago
<norsetto> dholbach: yuppy :-D
<mok0> Any package that uses GNU autotools should be built with CDBS IMHO
<azeem> other people think differently ITHO
<persia> mok0: Erm.  I can show you some counterexamples.  How about "Any package that uses GNU autotools properly should be built with CDBS"?
<norsetto> cdbs shall die <insert satanic laugh here>
<mok0> persia: granted
 * persia also especially likes the 1-line debian/rules for CDBS using artwork, settings, and meta-packages
<Hobbsee> norsetto: and yada will become the new overlord?
<persia> Umm..  Why don't we just repackage those?
<norsetto> Hobbsee: overlady ....
<mok0> I've used cdbs quite a bit lately and it works fine. For newbies it hides all the gory makefile details, and makes sure it works correctly
<persia> (and for experts it offers more hooks and goodies than you might imagine)
<mok0> AND, it can apply patches to autotools files, which is otherwise a pain to bring about
<frenchy> persia: Hi again, can you please tell me where I can find some information on the debian/*.install file?  It's not working for me and I can't find any info on what it actually does.
<persia> frenchy: man dh_install
<frenchy> persia: ta
<frenchy> Anyone got a sec to chat over a dh_install problem?
<mok0> frenchy: go ahead
 * persia cheers mok0
<frenchy> The first line in the me-tv.install is "usr/bin/me-tv"
<mok0> frenchy: ... and?
<frenchy> when I run dh_install from the top directory I get "cp: cannot stat `./usr/bin/me-tv': No such file or directory"
<mok0> frenchy: the path in *.install should be relative to the top-level source dir
<frenchy> the file is a debian/usr/bin/me-tv
<frenchy> persia: Ok, that make sense but ...
<frenchy> persia: gxine.install has usr/bin/gxine?
<mok0> frenchy: your'e talking to me, not persia.
<frenchy> Ooops.
 * persia suggests listening to mok0, who has done much more recent packaging with dh_install than I.
<frenchy> mok0: Sorry.
<mok0> You can invoke dh_install with an option --sourcedir=debian/tmp , then that will be prepended to what's in the *install file
<mok0> frenchy: but I suggest that you just put the correct path in the .install file, it's clearer
<frenchy> mok0: So is it ok for me to put the debian/ at the start .... got it.
<Riddell> norsetto: what's this "Xb-Npp-Applications:" line in gecko-mediaplayer?
<mok0> frenchy: yes.
<norsetto> riddell: those are for the new plugin policy with firefox
<mok0> frenchy: it's usually debian/tmp, though...
<norsetto> riddell: I should have a spec reference somewhere
<frenchy> mok0: I just realised that.  For me it seems to be debian/me-tv.
<mok0> frenchy: It depends on what exactly goes on when debian/rules does "make install"
<norsetto> riddell: here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/firefox-distro-addon-support
<broonie> Normally things are set up so that the upstream stuff stages into debian/tmp and then files are picked out of there into the debian/final-package dirs.
<Riddell> norsetto: interesting thanks. looks fine, accepted into multiverse
<mok0> frenchy: you need to understand: the install process goes on in 2 stages. First, make installs everything in some temporary place, then, dh_install moves files to debian/<pacakgename>
<norsetto> riddell: thanks again!
<frenchy> mok0: That would've been anjuta.  Is debian/me-tv ok?
<mok0> frenchy: is that the name of one package being built?
<frenchy> mok0: Yes.
<mok0> frenchy: .... how many subpackages?
<frenchy> mok0: None ... I think.
<mok0> frenchy: look in controls file
<jdong> whoa awn in Hardy :)
<frenchy> mok0: I should see 2 parts right, one for the source and one for the binary.
<jdong> wait does hardy-changes show packages that are stuck in New?
<mok0> frenchy: it "make install" installs the files in debian/<packagename>, then you do not need to call dh_install
<jdong> persia: btw, do you have any links to FDO documentation that the .png suffix should be dropped on icons?
<persia> jdong: Not handy.
<jdong> persia: okay, never mind then
<frenchy> mok0: Ok ... the light bulb just went on.  "dh_install moves files to debian/<pacakgename>"
<persia> There was something on the wiki, but the last remnant is now written by me and deprecated, so not something for you to trust :)
<mok0> frenchy: yes
<mok0> frenchy: that's the only purpose of dh_install, but it is only needed if you want to separate the install tree into different binary packages
<frenchy> mok0: So me-tv.install is really only for debian specific files (i.e. menu) ... because everything else can go in the make install?
<frenchy> mok0: And your point ... of course.
<mok0> frenchy: yes
<frenchy> mok0: Thanks.  I'll give that a go.
<mok0> frenchy: glad to help!
<nealmcb> ahh - daylight savings....  damn
<persia> nealmcb: Move: not everywhere has that silly thing about changing clocks :)
<nealmcb> persia: :-)
<frenchy> mok0: Yet another question, me-tv.install tells dh_install where to copy the files to, am I right?  Then how does dh_install know where to copy the files from?
<mok0> frenchy: no, me-tv.install tells dh_install where to copy the files FROM
<\sh> Fujitsu, did you see wordpress CVE-2007-6013? ;)
<frenchy> mok0: I do not doubt your greatness for a second ... but I read this from `man dh_install`  "Files named debian/package.install list the files to install into each package and the directory they should be installed to"
<frenchy> mok0: And I assumed the opposite.
<mok0> frenchy: yeah, that manpage is hard to interpret
<mok0> frenchy: I don't think you need to use dh_install
<persia> Erm.  Just a note, an install file may contain lines with two whitespace separated values, and both define from and to
<frenchy> persia: That where I was heading ... thanks.
<mok0> frenchy: you should use the specialized dh_install* funcitons, like dh_installmenu
<frenchy> mok0: ohhhh ... I'm using cdbs ... so a lot of that is auto-magically.  But I don't see a dh_install_* for a desktop file.
<frenchy> s/auto/done auto/
<persia> There isn't one.  .desktop files currently require an entry in debian/install.  It's on the feature wishlist, but isn't likely to get deployed in Ubuntu until hardy+1
<mok0> frenchy: create a file called <package>.menu with the name of the desktop file
<mok0> frenchy: cdbs will then put it in the right place in the package build tree
<frenchy> mok0: awesome.
<mok0> frenchy: yeah pretty cool
<persia> Um.  No.  debian/package.menu is supposed to be a debian menu file, and gets installed in /usr/share/menu.  The ,desktop file belongs in /usr/share/applications
<mok0> persia: you're right. My bad.
<mok0> frenchy: I stand corrected. You _do_ need the .install file, with a space separated FROM TO line placing the desktop file ./usr/share/applications
<persia> (please also create debian/package.menu in menu format for users of desktop environments that aren't 100% freedesktop compliant
<frenchy> Thanks, I'll give that a go, now.
<DaveMorri1> how can I tell cdbs to use make instead of make -c?
<persia> DaveMorri1: MAKE:=make
 * jdong smacks himself for setting the wrong From: on his mails
<jdong> heh I really need to have procmail handle my outgoing too
<DaveMorri1> persia: didn't work
<DaveMorri1> the autotools.mk file has this
<persia> DaveMorri1: Ought.  I can't troubleshoot now, but $(MAKE) is likely getting set somewhere, and there's likely an override mechanism.
<DaveMorri1> DEB_MAKE_INVOKE = $(DEB_MAKE_ENVVARS) $(MAKE) -C $(DEB_BUILDDIR)
<DaveMorri1> so it doesn't look like it can be overridden
<mok0> DaveMorri1: ...and probably shouldn't be...
<persia> DaveMorri1: Why don't you want to run make in the base package directory?
<DaveMorri1> yeah, the package I have doesn't build with make -C but does with make
<frenchy> Here's the thing, right, I put the .desktop file in the top directory because it's not really debian specific ... is that right?
<DaveMorri1> persia: not my build system
<persia> DaveMorri1: That's why debian/patches exists :)
<DaveMorri1> persia: I don't really wanna patch the whole build system.  It runs configure, creates a build dir, then calls make which moves into the build dir and builds it there
<persia> Depends on how you're shipping it.  If you're shipping it as upstream, you should put it near your icons, and install it with your build system (not with debian/install).  If you're shipping it as the packager, it7s considered good form to try to keep everything inside debian/
<DaveMorri1> build dir changes depending on arch and compiler :(
<persia> DaveMorri1: Then just override $(DEB_BUILDDIR)
<DaveMorri1> k
<DaveMorri1> thnaks
<siretart> superm1: the license of libdvdcss2 was never an issue. it's rather what it does.
<mok0> frenchy: some MOTUs don't like you putting stuff outside of debian/
<Hobbsee> because it's a pain, yes.
<mok0> Hobbsee: a pain to review, perhaps
<Hobbsee> pain to upgrade
<Hobbsee> you cant just nuke the debian dir.
<Hobbsee> and i'll bet it also does nasty things with patches back to debian
<mok0> Hobbsee: Why would you want to nuke the debian dir?
<Hobbsee> to put it into the new source package?
<Hobbsee> for the newer version?
<mok0> Hobbsee: You could just apply the diff to the new dir
<\sh> siretart, I tried to explain it on the ML :)
<Hobbsee> mok0: it's kinda hard to *find*, in with all the new upstream changes.
<\sh> siretart, btw...do you have time for mentoring me for debian maintainership? ,-)
<Hobbsee> but yes, if you wanted to diff out the old lot, then apply it to the new package, you probably could
<Hobbsee> just harder
<\sh> moins bddebian
<\sh> hmm...if everything works fine, one cve fix for debian will just arrive in debian-security...
<mok0> Hobbsee: In general, your diff would just contain the debian/ dir, right? Plus a few files you've placed in the source
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi \sh
<mok0> Hobbsee: As long as the new version doesnt clash with that , you should be fien
<Hobbsee> mok0: yes, should do.
<norsetto> bddebian: salutations
<persia> Hobbsee: THat's a very broken way to handle new upstreams.  You want to zcat ../foo.diff.gz | patch -p1 in that case.
<Hobbsee> persia: was thinking of uupdate
<mok0> Hobbsee: If you're authoring a completely new autobuilds system, it's kinda akward to put it in as dpatches
<bddebian> Heya norsetto
<frenchy> I don't understand, what does a GNOME desktop file have to do with upgrading?
<persia> Hobbsee: Yep.  Then too :)
<persia> You get a little fuzz, which you should fix, and debian/
<Hobbsee> persia: sorry, which was is broken?  moving the debian dir, or patching the source direct/
<\sh> I don't know..but pushing files into upstream source tree is not what a package maintainer want...
<mok0> frenchy: when a new upstream version appears, you want to move your desktop file along with your debian dir
<\sh> that's why debian and redhat are maintaining the additions and patches inside their build system
<persia> Hobbsee: expecting to move or nuke debian/ and have it do the right thing.  Because debian/rules clean gets called when building a package, it's not infrequent to have unexpected variation in diff.gz
<persia> mok0: frenchy is upstream :)
<\sh> and inline patching a .desktop file...well, I don't find it a really cool location..most likely it's even more distro specific
<frenchy> mok0: Ohhh ... yeah when upstream isn't maintaining the desktop file.
<Hobbsee> persia: granted.
<frenchy> If the maintainers are "maintaining" the desktop file then it's a diff right?
 * persia finally sends the email with the review procedures for doing it the right way and plans to update the recipes & instructions later
<Hobbsee> persia: so can i skip to reading your mail, and delete the rest?
<\sh> frenchy, package maintainers who are adding a .desktop file, this will be represented in the .diff.gz, yes. upstream maintainers have to do it in their source tree
<persia> Hobbsee: Err..  "Doing new upstream reviews properly".  Other email may be useful for other values of it.
<frenchy> \sh: I'm the latter,right?
 * persia notes that when the package maintainer is the upstream maintainer, it's vastly preferred that the .desktop file be an upstream file.
<frenchy> \sh: so you are saying that it should go in the top directory?
<\sh> frenchy, when you are upstream maintainer, you should maintain the .desktop file in your source tree, yes...and put it into your normal make dist resulting tar.gz
 * persia sleeps
<frenchy> \sh: mok0: mok0 said "some MOTUs don't like you putting stuff outside of debian/".  We now agree that this is a unnecessary restriction for a MOTU to place on me?
<mok0> brb
<frenchy> Damn, just missed him.
<frenchy> \sh: I think we see eye-to-eye here.  I was really just trying to get a confirmation out of mok0.
<\sh> frenchy, if you want to be sure, that you want to have a .desktop file with your stuff in, provide it in the upstream tarball...no package maintainer will touch your upstream tarball...they are only patching stuff in and out which will be represented in a patch file
<\sh> frenchy, most package maintainer are so kind and sending bugreports with their changes to you (reading upstream developer) and you can decide which patches you want to apply and which not.
<\sh> frenchy, so, when you want to have a .desktop file distributed with your source tarball, include it in your VCS (aka cvs, svn, bzr whatever) , but
<\sh> frenchy, if you want a .desktop file only for ubuntu or debian, put it into the debian/ dir and install it manually in debian/rules...
<frenchy> \sh: all makes perfect sense to me.
<\sh> frenchy, normally, an upstream developer shouldn't deal with distro packaging...so no upstream developer should ship debian, redhat or <insert your favorite distro here> build specific sources with their source tarball...but that's just me
<\sh> ok....time to go home
<\sh> cu later
 * RainCT waves
<bddebian> Heya RainCT
<mok0> frenchy: I didn't realize you were upstream.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<huats> hey bddebian
<huats> bddebian: I was looking for you
<huats> :)
<bddebian> Heya geser, huats
<bddebian> huats: Uh oh, what'd I do now? :-)
<huats> bddebian: no big deal
<huats> I was wondering if you were taking care of the merge of balsa, or can I have a look
<bddebian> huats: Ah, go for it, thanks
<huats> (I am asking you since you are marked as the last uploaders....)
<huats> bddebian: ok
<huats> great
<huats> I might ask you a few stuffs may be...
<huats> but I'll try to do my best by myself :)
<bddebian> Cool
<huats> bddebian: thanks
<bddebian> Heh, I like LaserRock better ;-P
<norsetto> huats: ping. Available for some more testing?
<jariq> hi
<LaserJock> bddebian: you liked him better?
<jariq> Let say i am developer of network application and would like to get it into universe. I am little confused what should I do.
<SWAT> jariq, is it opensource?
<jariq> yes
<jariq> gpl
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, bring him back will ya? ;-P
<warp10> Hi all!
<SWAT> jariq, you'll need to package it etc. (and follow the instructions on the wiki). Do you have a url to the website?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: http://stompbox.typepad.com/blog/2007/11/mantha-on-the-m.html
<imbrandon> jariq: well you can go two routes, you can just publish a source tarbal and rope a current MOTU or MOTU hopefull into packaging it for you ( the quickest ) or learn to make debian packages yourself and go that way ( the best long term )
<imbrandon> if you choose the latter then !packageguide will help you
<imbrandon> !packageguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<imbrandon> if the former, then get to know your fellow MOTU :)
<jariq> if i create a package myself
<jariq> what will happen then
<imbrandon> then it should be submitted to REVU and current MOTU will review it for QA and upload it
<imbrandon> REVU == http://revu.ubuntuwire.com
<jariq> so the first route is quicker
<imbrandon> right
<jariq> because motu does the package
<imbrandon> first is quicker, but the second is better longer term
<jdong> how long after a build succeeds in Hardy before the buildd's will pick up the new package?
<jariq> and the second
<jariq> if i make a package upload it to revu
<imbrandon> jdong: you mean publish the new package? umm 1 hour 2 minutes iirc start to finish
<jariq> someone will approve it
<jdong> imbrandon: I mean for build-depends: foo-dev to pick up the new foo-dev for future builds
<jariq> then it will get to universe?
<imbrandon> if you upload a package to revu it largely depends on the time of day and time of week, early on mondays normaly goes within minutes, other times can be daysw
<norsetto> warp10: do you have an italian desktop?
<imbrandon> jdong: whenever its published it should
<jdong> imbrandon: ok, thanks
<warp10> norsetto: I do! How can I help you?
<imbrandon> jariq: the "best" way if you go the revu route is once uploaded , copy and paste the url to the upload in here asn kindly ask for MOTU review
<imbrandon> alot of times you can get soem feedback realtime that way
<jariq> imbrandon> great
<norsetto> warp10: could you check bug 160152? You just need to install tagtool from gutsy-proposed and see if it is in italian
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160152 in tagtool "[Gutsy] Tagtool without icon and in english only" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160152
<jariq> imbrandon> and what about updates
<imbrandon> jariq: updates to the package once pubished in the archive can be made with a simple diff file attached to a bug by you oor someone else
<norsetto> warp10: don't start tagging your 2454327011 illegal mp3 though ....
<warp10> norsetto: I just read your email on MOTU ML, I was yet thinking to check your tool. :)
<warp10> norsetto: sorry, I only have illegal .ogg :P
<norsetto> warp10: jokes aside, if you can test it it would be cool
<jariq> imbrandon> so any other updates will be done by submiting diff on launchpad? then some motu will apply the patch on package?
<imbrandon> correct
<warp10> norsetto: I'll do. Just the time to request a sync and I'll take a look
<imbrandon> jariq: or you yourself could become a motu at somepoint, totaly upto you
<imbrandon> but yea
<jariq> imbrandon> but i dont have to
<imbrandon> correct, you dont need to
<imbrandon> by anymeans
<norsetto> warp10: take your time,just report your results to the bug report. thanks!
<warp10> norsetto: you are welcome! :)
<jariq> imbrandon> so i can be a maintainer of packege but do not have to be motu. Just need to get first package approved by motu and then just put patches to launchpad
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> sounds like you got the jest of it
<jariq> imbrandon> and what about new major release of my package
<jariq> imbrandon> i will have to wait for next release of ubuntu ?
<imbrandon> new versions ( not revisions ) normaly hit REVU again if they are large
<imbrandon> depends on the time of the cycle the new version comes out
<bddebian> imbrandon: I think that's gist not jest ;-P
<imbrandon> if its not durring a freeze no you dont have to wait
<imbrandon> bddebian: prob :)
<jariq> imbrandon> thanks a lot
<imbrandon> np , feel free to poke me or any MOTU in here if you hit bumps along the way
<imbrandon> we dont bite ( mostly )
<jariq> :)
<jariq> so universe is some kind of "free" repository? can you add new packages for gutsy now?
<jariq> or they have to wait for next release
<jdong> jariq: Gutsy is frozen; your uploads would be to Hardy
<jdong> jariq: however if your Hardy package builds in a gutsy environment too, it is eligible for backporting
<imbrandon> ( witch is all taken care of on the backend )
<jariq> so it can get to backports
<imbrandon> correct AFTER it hits hardy
<jariq> thanks
<jariq> now i know everything i needed
<jariq> c ya
<jdong> imbrandon: speaking of you being enslaved into a manual backport, would you have some spare time later on to sponsor a wengophone srcchange backport to Feisty? The debdiff looked trivial but I need to review it a bit more
<imbrandon> jdong: possibly if you mean tonight ( as in this evening CST )
<warp10> Bug #164143 Is it normal such a long changelog or I made something wrong? o_0
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164143 in gwhois "Please sync gwhois 20071030  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164143
<jdong> imbrandon: meh just sometime in the future, it's low on my list too
<imbrandon> kk
<jdong> warp10: yeah that's too long, you only need changelog entries since las Ubuntu release, 20070408ubuntu1
<warp10> jdong: well, really I used requestsync. Is there a way to cut it using this tool?
<jdong> good question, I'm not sure
<Kmos> warp10: no.. you need to edit description on launchpad
<Kmos> and remove them manually
<warp10> Kmos: Ok. I'll do. Thanks!
<warp10> norsetto: sorry, but I see tagtool in english :(
<norsetto> warp10: ok, what version is that?
<warp10> norsetto: 0.12.3-2
<norsetto> warp10: right, you need to add the gutsy-proposed repository in /etc/apt/sources.list and upgrade then
<warp10> norsetto: It was enabled yet, and I did an apt-get update before installing it
<norsetto> warp10: ok, but the version of the package should be 0.12.3-2ubuntu0.1 then?
<warp10> norsetto: maybe it just need some more time to build?
<norsetto> warp10: let me check
<norsetto> warp10: thats interesting, I don't find it in gutsy-proposed ......
<warp10> wow...
<mok0> what's the difference between gutsy-proposed and gutsy-backports?
<imbrandon> proposed are often incomplete and broken versions
<imbrandon> for testing ONLY
<imbrandon> before it goes to -updates ( more revisions later normaly )
<mok0> ok
<griffinc> I am working on a merge and the new Debian version has some patches and some of these patches have +x permissions, which creates some debuild errors.  should make these patches non-executable?
<RainCT> how can I generate a debdiff only from the debian/ dir?
<imbrandon> only make changes to the debian/ dir ?
<imbrandon> heh
<CyberMatt> Yet another odd situation
<\sh> re
<CyberMatt> so i was working on this package come to find out that sombody was already working on it in debian
<CyberMatt> so got in touch with the Debian Maintianer
<CyberMatt> enjoy working with him but... his sponser different matter
<CyberMatt> like this guy hasn't responed to emails whats us to maintian an unstable old and real crudy upstream
<CyberMatt> remove lintain overrides that *need* to be there
<CyberMatt> ie binary without manpage when you can't call that binary directly
<CyberMatt> and i don't want the Ubuntu version to suck so what can i do
<CyberMatt> can i package a higher upstream and not have it killed on sync
<CyberMatt> or do i have to wait for the sync and then move to package the upstream
<CyberMatt> because gotta tell you i don't want to be fixing inspircd 1.1.8 for the 5 years
<norsetto> CyberMatt: sorry, I missed the beginning, what is the problem?
<\sh> CyberMatt, you are allowed to package new upstream versions, yes...and it won't be killed by a sync when it has a ubuntu version tag
<CyberMatt> ok
 * \sh has no clue what inspircd is anyways
<norsetto> \sh: wait, is he afraid that a debian package will come and override his package?
<\sh> if it's a irc server, hell, someone has to security bug fixes
<\sh> norsetto, yepp
<CyberMatt> we are going to try to persude this sponser to let us go ahead with the latest upstream which i am 90% done packaging
<norsetto> \sh: well, but then he is right, if a new debian version will come it will override his package (unless he manages to have his package in debian that is)
<\sh> norsetto, nope...it won't be synced automatically when it has an ubuntu version tag ... he doesn't want to work with the debian maintainer as far I could understand...so he wants to package for ubuntu a new upstream version (-0ubuntu1) ,-)
<norsetto> \sh: thats right, not automatically, but manually ....
<CyberMatt> but if we don't hear from him by chirstmas I'm gonna do a revu upload
<\sh> CyberMatt, why don't you package a new upstream and send the source package to the bts and ask him to take it
<CyberMatt> I'm alright working with the DM
<\sh> CyberMatt, so what's the problem?
<CyberMatt> but his sponser is causing problems for us
 * norsetto -> dinner
<\sh> CyberMatt, find another one?
<CyberMatt> the DM aggres with me somewhat
<CyberMatt> just wanted to know what my options were
<proppy> Hi, I can't found the page about quilt into the packaging guide ?
<proppy> maybe I've dreamed about it :)
<proppy> here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<proppy> :)
<warp10> proppy: quilt is at the very bottom of that page
<proppy> yep
<proppy> just found it
<DaveMorris> proppy: have I done libcpptest how you where saying? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<proppy> DaveMorris: It was just a suggestion feel free to get other advice about this
<DaveMorris> yeah, I agreed with what you said though.  Others don't and I'm not sure which route would be best
<proppy> DaveMorris: but yes that was what I was talking about
<DaveMorris> are you a motu?
<proppy> DaveMorris: no
<proppy> DaveMorris: and not really close to be one :)
<proppy> DaveMorris: the best shot will be to look a another c++ unittest package in debian (not mine)
<proppy> if there is one
<DaveMorris> proppy: you need to fix the copyright in yours btw
<proppy> in 1.3.0-3 ?
<DaveMorris> the gutsy one
<proppy> DaveMorris: http://packages.debian.org/libcunit1
<proppy> debian/copyright ?
<DaveMorris> it needs a preamblee in it I'm  told, and someone showed me bug about it
<DaveMorris> yeah debain/copyright
<proppy> let me look
<proppy> I thought it had a correct preample
<proppy> you mean a bug report against unittest++
<proppy> DaveMorris: btw unittest++ is not synced from unstable yet
<proppy> DaveMorris: gutsy version is outdated
<proppy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/2115/
<proppy> I thought this was correct
<DaveMorris> ah, I based my package to begin with on the gutsy version and got told that my debain/copyright was wrong I pointed them to cppunit deebian/copyright (gutsy) and they said it was also wrong and that a bug had been filled
<proppy> This package was debianized by Johan Euphrosine (proppy) <proppy@aminche.com> on to It was downloaded from http://sourceforge.net/projects/unittest-cpp/
<proppy> isn't it the preamble ?
<proppy> DaveMorris: did you recall the bug number
<proppy> DaveMorris: you should take a look at the 1.3.0-1 version
<DaveMorris> trying to find it now, but my laptop is veery slow
<proppy> DaveMorris: if you need it's a bit cleaner
<proppy> DaveMorris: so does mine :)
<jussi01> evening all
<jussi01> anyone know if there is a grapical client to bzr?
<gnomefreak> can a motu comment/ack http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=lightning-sunbird
<ajmitch> jussi01: olive
<geser> jussi01: olive
<jussi01> !info olive
<ubotu> Package olive does not exist in gutsy
<geser> !info bzr-gtk
<ajmitch> !info bzr-gtk
<ubotu> bzr-gtk: provides graphical interfaces to Bazaar (bzr) version control. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.90.0-1 (gutsy), package size 142 kB, installed size 1004 kB
<ajmitch> hehe :)
<ajmitch> there's an echo around here somewhere
 * jussi01 wonders if there is a qt app... ;)
<ajmitch> people use qt?
<geser> hehe :)
<gnomefreak> jussi01: nope atleast not in repos
<jussi01> gnomefreak: ok, thanks
<gnomefreak> ;)
<jdong> what is the rebuild versioning for XubuntuY?
<jdong> I know for -X from Debian we do -Xbuild1
<ajmitch> Xubuntu(Y+1)
<DaveMorris> prro
<jdong> ajmitch: makes sense, thanks :)
<DaveMorris> proppy: Debian bug #437526
<ubotu> Debian bug 437526 in libcppunit-dev "libcppunit-dev: old debian/copyright, upgrade to newest standard" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/437526
<proppy> DaveMorris: it's cppunit not unittest++
<DaveMorris> oh, sorry I though yours was cppunit, my mistake
 * DaveMorris too many testing frameeworrks
<proppy> :)
<proppy> yep
<proppy> and too "my  framework is better than yours" when it comes to testing framework
<DaveMorris> reason I used cpptest was it was the 1st one I found and could get working when I coded up my projet
<proppy> because they're really big project, people seems to think that implementing their own is better than tolerating another one
<DaveMorris> yep
<proppy> DaveMorris: same with unittest++, I found it from a blog post, and figure out that there is quite a community around it
<DaveMorris> now to seee if my opensg packages builds on ppa
<Ubulette> hi, I'm still looking for a sponsor for bug 163271. got asac's approval.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163271 in xulrunner "Please merge xulrunner 1.8.1.9-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163271
<Ubulette> anyone ? :)
<DaveMorris> Ubulette: be a bit more patient and I'm sure someone will ;)
<norsetto> uboulette ou ubulette?
<Ubulette> guess :)
<norsetto> ubulette: better not ;-)
<norsetto> ubulette: any reason for asac not to sponsor it himself?
<Ubulette> he's on holidays
<norsetto> ubulette: 266 kb!?
<Ubulette> and i'm always depending on him so a bit of change would be nice
<Ubulette> yes
<Ubulette> like most of moz apps
<Ubulette> just filterdiff -x '*/99_conf*' to ease the review
<slangasek> oubliette?
<norsetto> lol
<Ubulette> lol
<norsetto> Ubulette: have you finally decided where is the plugin dir for xulrunner?
<Ubulette> norsetto, i'm on it for xulrunner 1.9 b1 just released a couple of hours ago.
<Ubulette> here, the merge is about xulrunner 1.8.1.* (the firefox 2 branch)
<Ubulette> (1.9 being the firefox 3.0 branch)
<norsetto> ubulette: yes, but it is still /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/plugins/ or you changed it?
<Ubulette> i'm not touching that part in xul 1.8, plugins and addons are not used shared by debian, and we're following debian for that branch
<Ubulette> i'm going to change that in 1.9 for sure
<Ubulette> debian will probably never follow
<slangasek> why won't Debian follow?
<LaserJock> \o/, presentation finished
<LaserJock> now, back to the land of slackers :-)
<Jazzva> norsetto: Regarding the .desktop files in ksimus, I think there is one describing the filetype, and I think I'll need to change it.. So, it might take a day until I upload a new diff...
<norsetto> jazzva: sure, take your time
<Ubulette> slangasek, because of the way it is packaged now (ie almost the mozilla way). remember the soname vs GRE war?
<Jazzva> (need to learn the new structure and stuff)
 * \sh wonders when he can work on merges again...there is so much unfixed stuff
<slangasek> Ubulette: no?
<slangasek> Ubulette: sorry, I don't have the historical context here, but if there are reasons that Debian and Ubuntu are diverging radically on packaging I like to know about it
<Baby> slangasek: hi! :)
<slangasek> Baby: moo
<Baby> :))))
<Baby> nice to see u! :)
<norsetto> one reason just popped in ....
<Ubulette> slangasek, to make a looong story short, debian rejected to mozilla way to install the xul toolkit (GRE) and went for changing the structure and soname everything, plus the unbranding thing
<slangasek> Ubulette: and for some reason, you believe that Mozilla's way is right?
<Ubulette> it's not my choice only. it has been discussed a long time ago in #ubuntu-mozillateam
<slangasek> well, the whole reason for having xulrunner as a separate package is so that it can be shared among other applications, which inherently requires a stable packaging interface (soname, etc); so I guess I'm missing something in regards to why the Debian changes are wrong
<slangasek> "GRE" isn't very googlable, so doesn't tell me what the differences are
 * norsetto wonders about the point of having two xulrunners actually
<Ubulette> the api changed a lot. there's no way to make xul apps for 1.8 and 1.9 work with only one xulrunner. We've tried
<slangasek> heh
<norsetto> ubulette: but apps which are now using 1.8 are planning to migrate to 1.9 or we will keep two forever?
<Ubulette> well, by xul apps, i meant real xul applications and libmozemb apps
<Ubulette> we feel it will take forever
<norsetto> oh dear
<\sh> why can't a browser be a simple browser...why it needs to embedded something like emacs
<slangasek> now you're confusing xulrunner with elrunner
<Ubulette> maybe ubuntu will be able to drop xulrunner (1.8) at some point as most of the 1.8 apps are using firefox-dev anyway (which causes tons of crashes if you upgrade ff-dev without recompiling everything.. that's the whole point of GRE)
<\sh> slangasek, sometimes it sounds like that mozilla is reinventing emacs...but starting with a browser and not with a vi replacement ;) *meruns*
<Ubulette> it's just a SDK here. we're working to make as many moz apps use it
<slangasek> Ubulette: uhm?  what is it that's the whole point of GRE?
<LaserJock> \sh: and look how well emacs turned out :-)
<slangasek> and there are lots of packages that use xulrunner, not firefox-dev
<Ubulette> slangasek, really ? show me :)
<slangasek> Ubulette: grep-dctrl doesn't already show this?
<\sh> LaserJock, yeah, now it has a gtk UI ,-)
<LaserJock> epiphany will be using xulrunner I think and hopefully yelp as well
<LaserJock> we gotta get rid of the firefox dependence in everything :-)
<slangasek> ... ok, I take that back; apparently Ubuntu has diverged heavily from Debian and almost all packages that use xulrunner in Debian *are* using firefox in Ubuntu, wtf?
<slangasek> well, videolink uses xulrunner anyway
<\sh> LaserJock, do you know how deep the knowledge of motu documentation goes regarding patching, packaging and working with upstream VCS?
<norsetto> ubulette: is ecj really needed as a build-dep?
<LaserJock> \sh: I would say not very much
<LaserJock> \sh: we have documentation on patches, and various bits I think, but as far as specifically dealing with upstream VCSs I don't know that we have much
<\sh> LaserJock, I wonder how I can start a session about security bugfixing when all the three main workflows are needed...I need to find a good example
<\sh> I really wonder if this bugfix is good as security fix...adding at least 2 new configuration settings to net-snmp is not a simple fix
<\sh> anyways it works
<CyberMatt> oh god an emacs browser
<Ubulette> norsetto: it has been introduced by asac in the previous release, it ftbfsed in gutsy iirc.
<geser> warp10: if you want I can ack your gwhois merge
<norsetto> ubulette: well, it was replacing ecj-bootstrap byt theat is gone now, so I wonder if you still need it
<norsetto> Ubulette: s/byt theat/but that/
<geser> warp10: s/merge/sync/
<warp10> geser: I asked to pitti, that is my mentor, but he looks rather busy, so I will be happy if you ack it :)
<\sh> CyberMatt, which would help me now a lot...switching between FF, emacs is sometimes ugly
<geser> warp10: ACKed
<proppy> norsetto: totally OT but I get tiddlywiki works with a mercurial web server, this leads to a nice versioned wiki, http://mercurial.aminche.com/raw-file/tip/tiddly.html
<warp10> geser: thank you so much! :)
 * norsetto rolls his eyes
<Jazzva> Is it ok to make changes to Makefile.am? I think I need to rename one .desktop to .xml and its name should be changed in Makefiles too...
<proppy> norsetto: this one is for you http://mercurial.aminche.com/rev/dd4245b27320
<norsetto> proppy: hehe you silly bugger
<norsetto> ubulette: is it correct to drop the xulrunner.install change?
<Ubulette> norsetto, yes.
<Ubulette> norsetto, hmm, wait
<Ubulette> hold on, i have to check the alternative
<\sh> good night motus :)
<Ubulette> norsetto, good catch. it's still needed. do you want me to post a new debdiff ?
<Ubulette> i have it ready
<norsetto> ubulette: well, yes, if you can check as well if ecj is needed
<norsetto> ubulette: all the rest seems ok
<Ubulette> norsetto, for ecj, I need to rebuild everything in a clean env. providing it takes 1 h for xul alone and that i'm currently building ff3b1 and xul1.9b1, that's another hour.
<norsetto> ubulette: ok, how much mem is needed to build it?
<Ubulette> mem ? no idea
<Ubulette> 1G is ok for sure
<nxvl_work> hi folks!
<norsetto> ubulette: well, if 1 G is enough I can build it, but if there is disk thrashing than forget
<Ubulette> norsetto, do you mean memory or disk ?
<norsetto> Hola nxvl
<norsetto> ubulette: 1 G or RAM
<norsetto> ubulette: 1 G of RAM even
<Ubulette> ok, 1GB of RAM is enough
<norsetto> ubulette: good, upload your patch and I check if ecj is needed
<ajmitch> 1GB is enough for a very patient person :)
<norsetto> ajmitch: patience or not, if I get disk thrashing I quit ....
<norsetto> ajmitch: building eclipse left a scab already on my pc
<Ubulette> norsetto, debdiff posted. here is the diff with the previous debdiff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2121/
<norsetto> ubulette: ok, you like cryptic changelogs eh
<Ubulette> compact, not cryptic
<Ubulette> foo.{install,postinst,prerm} => this is a bashism :)
<fdoving> someone should consider backporting courier from hardy to gutsy. as the gutsy version doesn't work with ssl3.
<huats_> norsetto: hey
 * ajmitch mutters
<ajmitch> time for me to work on some (reasonably urgent) security updates
<huats_> I am trying to test again tagtool
<norsetto> huats_: ok, thats good :-)
<norsetto> huats_: check if the binaries have been built already though
<huats_> but I cannot install it :( apparently I already have the latest version
<huats_> oh that should be the pb,not yet available...
 * jussi01 throws https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr-eclipse at ajmitch...
 * ajmitch throws it out the open window
<huats_> jono here comes the finger of god player :)
<jussi01> ajmitch: hehehehe... just mentioning it as you told me about olive...  :)
 * jussi01 --->
<jussi01> bed
<jdong> fdoving: is a backport request filed?
<fdoving> jdong: don't know, i just noticed this. need to fix my server first.
<jdong> fdoving: yeah if you get a chance please file a backport request and I'll look into it
<Fujitsu> Morning all.
<jdong> morning Fujitsu :)
<huats_> morning Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi jdong, huats_.
<geser> Hi Fujitsu
<jdong> I should go take a nap
<fdoving> jdong: might be more suitable for an SRU, maybe, or does it matter for universe things? (reading UbuntuBackports wiki that bugfixes shouldn't be the sole purpose)
<jdong> fdoving: hmm, is the fix trivial?
<jdong> fdoving: if it looks SRU-able, then by all means that's the correct process
<fdoving> jdong: no, patching is not an option as far as i can tell. needs a full version upgrade. so probably not an option.
<jdong> fdoving: ok, then let's deal with it as a backport
<huats_> jdong: I am looking for you :)
<huats_> norsetto told me to ask you about backports
<huats_> :D
<LordKow> bug 164202 can someone confirm this? it is not a lot of work to reproduce
<jdong> huats_: uh oh :) he left the moment you said that :D
 * jdong is worried
<LordKow> no where is the bot
<LordKow> https://bugs.launchpad.net/baltix/+source/git-core/+bug/164202
<jdong> LordKow: disappeared
<huats_> I have done a fix for hardy, and I am interested in doing a backport for gutsy
<LordKow> why is it in baltix grrr
<LordKow> such a bad dya
<huats_> jdong: don't worry, he told me  days before :D
<jdong> huats_: what is the nature of the fix?
<jdong> and what package
<huats_> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/torbutton/+bug/137513
<huats_> it is easier
<huats_> but I really like to do it by my self... since it is my first backport... but I would appreciate a little guidance :D
<huats_> it is a firefox extension
<nxvl_work> huats_: you are still alive!
<PriceChild> LordKow, ubotu will be back shortly.
<LordKow> k :)
<PriceChild> ah god not if that happens more...
<huats_> nxvl_work: yeah....
<LordKow> my life is incomplete without ubotu
<nxvl_work> huats_:  i haven't see you for some time in there
<ajmitch> PriceChild: are you breaking irc again?
<PriceChild> LordKow, just be patient and he'll be back sorry :)
<nxvl_work> huats_: where you a little disconect or was i?
<huats_> nxvl_work: I was a "bit" overwhelmed by my work
<jdong> huats_: ok, yeah, I'm reading the bug report right now
<huats_> nxvl_work: I wasn't I think
<huats_> nxvl_work: I still have to send the patch to the debian maintener :(
<huats_> (I hope I can do that tomorrow...)
<jdong> huats_: I agree with pkern's analysis that a SRU is unfeasible, so let's go the backports route
<jdong> huats_: have you tested if the package builds in a Gutsy pbuilder?
<huats_> jdong: I can sum up a little if you want
<huats_> jdong: it was building, since I start working on it just before it was freeze... but I finished after the freeze...
<huats_> so it should be building fine...
<huats_> I can recreate  a gutsy pbuilder  to check out of course....
<jdong> huats_: ok the source is in hardy, lemme just abuse the Backports PPA for this ;-)
<huats_> ;)
<huats_> ppa will be great
<jdong> huats_: mark Also Affects Project: gutsy-backports and invalidate the Gutsy ticket in the meantime, please
<norsetto> ubulette: ecj is not needed as an explicit dependency
<jdong> huats_: it's ridiculously small so I'm gonna build it locally rather than deal with PPA buildlag ;-)
<Ubulette> norsetto, javaxpcom is still built ?
<huats_> jdong: ok
<Ubulette> norsetto, did you open a bug for the xulrunner-addons path ? i don't remember
<huats_> jdong:  I change the bug to gutsy-backports and invalid the gutsy
<norsetto> Ubulette: yes, its in any case an implicit one, so, if you want to reduce your delta with debian you can remove it
<jdong> huats_: thank you. I'm install-testing the backport in Gutsy at the moment
<huats_> jdong: there is notthing I have to do ?
<jdong> huats_: you are done :) I'll manage it from here
<jdong> huats_: thanks for your help
<norsetto> Ubulette: what bug? I just need to know what I should use so that I can add xulrunner as an or-ed dependency
<Ubulette> norsetto, did you try on hardy or gutsy ?
<huats_> no use of sharkattack ?
<huats_> jdong: you did everything :D
<jdong> huats_: not now; I'm going to replace sharkattack with PPA :)
<norsetto> Ubulette: hardy
<jdong> huats_: no, *you* did everything with your Hardy upload :)
<jdong> huats_: sharkattack was nothing more than a web based pbuilder... I'm looking into a easy way to use PPA's to accomplish the same deed
<Ubulette> norsetto: i'm fixing the xulrunner-addons path in 1.9b1 right now so if you have a bug id, i can put in changelog otherwise, nevermind.
<norsetto> jdong: be patient with him, he may even do a man page for you ... or two .....
<jdong> norsetto: hahaha
 * jdong puts on evil face
<jdong> huats_: ok, you are all set; on next archive day the backport will be queued :)
<jdong> launchpad needs debdiff buttons :D
<jdong> at least between successive revisions to same upstream ver
<jdong> I guess those are interdiff buttons, but anyway :)
<brandonperry> :-(
<huats_> jdong: I've seen your post on the bug : Great !
<huats_> thanks a lot
<LordKow> so when merging a package from debian do i need to specify the upstream debian patches in the changelog too?
<norsetto> LordKow: no, only the ubuntu changes that need to be carried over
<LordKow> k
<huats_> norsetto: the backport has been done.... thanks to jdong
<huats_> (you know regarding the torbutton extension)
<LordKow> another question. if a merge requires modifying the source (not the debian stuff in debian\) um... do i need to create a patch for it? im confused because basically from what I understand is we go ahead and modify the source to fix conflicts (like the mom reports say along with all of the howtos), but they never mention anything about actually creating a patch for it
<norsetto> huats_: yes, I'm not yet that old to have such a short memory :-)
<norsetto> huats_: what torbutton extension ?
<huats_> norsetto: of course not... but you do so many stuffs that you might not see what I am talking about
<huats_> :)
<huats_> norsetto: you know the one that deals with man pages :)
<norsetto> huats_: oh, THAT torbutton extension!
<huats_> YES
<norsetto> huats_: right ...
<Ubulette> norsetto, do you (really) need a 3rd debdiff for ecj or if I remove it in the next release that would be good enough ?
<norsetto> ubulette: I can do that, no problem
<Ubulette> I can do it, no problem. I just fell it's not a big deal for this particular merge
<jdong> norsetto: we weren't worried about you getting old, we were worried about you becoming a full backup of the LP bug database ;-)
<huats_> :)
 * norsetto still remembers when bugs had only 2 digits
<norsetto> ubulette: I'm not imposing anything, the choice is yours, on one side you minimise the delta with debian, on the other you have an explicit dependency, its your call
<Ubulette> norsetto, then, I keep that for the next release for sure
<LordKow> interesting patch to aufs. "#if 0//def CONFIG_VSERVER" im not quite sure what that is supposed to be... "#ifdef CONFIG_VSERVER" ?
<LordKow> meh i'll just rebuild this package starting with the latest debian base
<LordKow> if we didnt use apparmour it would be a sync
<LordKow> +  * Fix kernel compilation due to Apparmour changes. (LP: #140735) <-- yay thanks for the patch name
<huats_> good night everyone
<huats_> norsetto: go to bed, at your age you should be slepping already
<huats_> :D
<norsetto> ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..................
<huats_> :)
<norsetto> huats_: one day you too will appreciate the power of the mid-afternoon nap ;-)
<huats_> rrrgggg
<huats_> I already like that too
<huats_> but I can't do that at work
<soren> LordKow: I interpret "#if 0//def CONFIG_VSERVER" as: It used to be "#ifdef CONFIG_VSERVER", for now comment it out completely ("#if 0").
<LordKow> hmm
<norsetto> huats_: :-P
<s1024kb> norsetto: good morning my teacher.
<huats_> see you all tomorrow
<LordKow> why wouldnt they just have commented out the 1 line embedded within the statement? :P
<norsetto> s1024kb: good night my alumn
<LordKow> oh i see, for info.
<soren> LordKow: http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/atomic/ubuntu/a/aufs/aufs_0+20070605-2ubuntu1.patch
<LordKow> yea im looking at it now
<s1024kb> norsetto: is it too late if i ask you question now? or "tomorrow"?
<norsetto> s1024kb: shoot
<LordKow> this is definitely a package when it is better to not use MOM automerge and simply start with debian base and ubuntu-ize it from there
<s1024kb> norsetto: so for the merged packages, how to upload?
<norsetto> s1024kb: did you check the bug report I mentioned to you? You should open another one for yappy, following that template
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay, get it. thanks.
<LordKow> this package is really a mess
<norsetto> s1024kb: give me the bug number once ready and I'll check it out
<norsetto> LordKow: amen
<LordKow> debian decided to start putting their kernel patches in <src package>\patch instead of <src package>\debian\patches. There are some patches in debian\patches that are dups of what is in patch
<LordKow> i will leave aufs alone and maybe i'll complain upstream :)
<norsetto> LordKow: complaining upstream is always a good tactic
<LordKow> rm -R /tmp/merges/aufs :D
<norsetto> s1024kb: I'm off to bed, just send me an email with the bug number ok?
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay my teacher. i will. :)
<norsetto> g'night all
<LordKow> i would rather not merge something like aufs anyways until the kernel team gets the new kernel out
<LordKow> according to debian it should compile against 2.6.23 which should work against 2.6.24. but for testing purposes it is another good reason to wait
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-21
 * jdong just spent a good chunk of time editing https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<jdong> updated the 3-year-old description of the project :D
<ScottK> Yeahhh.
<jdong> and also tried to reorganize the rules/requirements and the process for triage a bit more clearly
<RAOF> jdong: Yay!
<jdong> RAOF: figured mentioning the -extras repo (last used in Warty) in the first 3 lines is a sign that the document is outdated :D
<RAOF> :)
<jdong> now to figure out how to merge https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportRequestProcess into the main document...
<RAOF> I should probably file some backports requests.  Kvm at least is *much* faster, and now supports smp guests.
<jdong> laziness, how do I get a TOC to show up on a wiki page?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RAOF> Good $TIME_OF_DAY bddebian ;)
<bddebian> Hi RAOF
<ajmitch> hello
 * ajmitch waves to Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi bddebian ajmitch Hobbsee et al
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<ajmitch> ponies!
<StevenK> Right. Ponies!
<Hobbsee> yes, ponies are mandatory.
<lifeless> Pony!
<lifeless> ponyponypony pony!
 * RAOF calls his psychic pony back from vacation.
<LordKow> interesting, i just searched for a source file on google and my first result was "the society for the protection of unborn children"
<LordKow> okay well i guess their abbreviation would be the source file im looking for
<Hobbsee> RAOF: it's gone the way of my psychic frog
<RAOF> I didn't know you had a psychic frog!  My pony's been holding out on me!
<LordKow> has anyone ever forgotten their birthday?
<jdong> hmm PPA's look nice for Backports triage but a key lacking feature is the ability to notify on build success
<jdong> LordKow: yeah, I have been guilty of that
<LordKow> yea its now 7:04pm on November 20th and it is just now that i realized its my birthday heh
<jdong> LordKow: well happy birthday
<LordKow> thanks
<RAOF> jdong: Is the absence of a build-failure email enough?
<RAOF> Heh.  Happy birthday!
<jdong> RAOF: considering the build queue tends to be $a_really_long time, not really
<jdong> I guess I still need to do a bit more thinking about how to handle this
<jdong> definitely the PPA will remain a key piece of my plans for backport triage
<jdong> just I'm not sure if PPA alone suffices, or shall I have something that crawls the PPA's and bug reports
<jdong> I guess I'll try to organize my thoughts on how I want an upload to a PPA be connected to a bug report, then file that information as a LP feature request and see where that takes me
<RAOF> for bug in lpbugs.backports() : if check_ppa_build() : lpbugs.set_confirmed() kinda thing?
<jdong> RAOF: yeah. Better if it can be hooked as an event from the ppa and build daemons
<jdong> RAOF: i.e. Upload pings the bug report with .changes, no status change
<jdong> RAOF: all build updates (success/depwait/fail) ping the bug report
<jdong> that would suffice
<jdong> RAOF: it's also a problem that depwait for backports == fail but PPA's do not treat it so harshly :)
<Hobbsee> jdong: apparently the option is planned for "i know what the hell i'm doing, let me have my components back"
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ooh, good.
<Fujitsu> Do we get pockets too?
<Hobbsee> no idea
<Hobbsee> mark didn't mention them :)
<jdong> okie, question for you guys:
<RAOF> jdong: Ah, yeah.  depwait is not a good thing ;)
<jdong> so my current TODO list is blocking on faad2's build. It FTBFS'ed on all arches due to xmms-dev being uninstallable....
<jdong> So I looked into that, uploaded a rebuild of xmms to resolve that.....
<LordKow> anyone here have a ppc setup? new crash build w/ an extension that is built only on ppc systems.
<jdong> Currently the rebuild is done on 2 archs, namely i386 which I care the most about atm...
<jdong> should I upload a faad2 that build-deps specifically >= the rebuild version of xmms?
<jdong> because if the buildd tries to install the earlier, the build will bomb out
<jdong> but if I put the build-dep there, it'll depwait until the xmms package builds on that arch in question
<RAOF> Why is that a problem?
<jdong> RAOF: why is what a problem?
<RAOF> That it'll depwait until the dependency is built.
<jdong> RAOF: I guess it isn't. I'm just wondering if I am being impatient
<RAOF> I suppose it means you might be building a stack where the bottom piece FTBFS on some archs, but apart from that...
<jdong> I mean the alternative would be to wait 3 centuries or whatever for all xmms to build and then requesting give-back
<jdong> I figure it's better to upload a tighter build-dep on faad2 so at least I can have ONE arch that's built and ready to go
<Hobbsee> jdong: this is true, but where is this building for?
<jdong> Hobbsee: hardy universe
<jdong> Hobbsee: xmms -> gpac (libgpac-dev) -> mpeg4ip (libmp4v2-dev) -> gtkpod-aac
<jdong> that's the chain I'm working on
<jdong> so there's a lot waiting on this stupid xxms thing
<jdong> err insert faad2 between gpac and mpeg4ip
<jdong> just wanted to make sure nobody'd get pissed at me if I uploaded a rebuild of faad2?
<Hobbsee> jdong: wait a sec
<Hobbsee> jdong: right, xmms should be taken next
<jdong> Hobbsee: yeah xmms already has good build on ppc and i386 according to LP
<LordKow> what is the proper way to put LP: #whatever into the changelog? i think there was a wiki on this somewhere but i cant find it
<Fujitsu> LordKow: LP: #whatever
<jdong> Hobbsee: so I need faad2 to depend on the good version of xmms, the rebuild.
<Hobbsee> jdong: well, the others are being taken now
<Hobbsee> er...
<jdong> Hobbsee: unless I want to request give-back once all xmms's are definitely done
<Hobbsee> oh, i see why lamont says this doesnt work
<zul> grr..
<Hobbsee> jdong: right.  *now* the xmms stuff should be taken once the current lot has finished building.
<jdong> Hobbsee: ok, so would it be okay to upload faad2 depending on xmms >= $rebuild_ver?
<Hobbsee> jdong: if you like, otherwise i should be able to give faad2 back
<jdong> Hobbsee: are you sure xmms has built on all arches?
<jdong> AFAICT LP says only i386 and ppc
<Hobbsee> jdong: it has not, as yet.
<Hobbsee> read what i said :)
<Hobbsee> [12:24] <Hobbsee> jdong: right.  *now* the xmms stuff should be taken once the current lot has finished building.
 * Hobbsee hits retry on i386 adn ppc
<jdong> Hobbsee: ah you can retry arch-by-arch?
<Hobbsee> yup
<jdong> Hobbsee: ok, that's where my misunderstanding was. That'd be good then, please do :)
<Hobbsee> already done for those that have built.
<Hobbsee> poke me when xmms2 has built on !lpia, please
<Hobbsee> or maybe !lpia+hppa
<jdong> Hobbsee: will do. thank you
<Hobbsee> no problem
<leonel> if hardy  feature freeze  is  scheduled for  february 14fh  means  that  no new package versions  can be added to Hardy ??
<LaserJock> leonel: no
<LaserJock> leonel: it means no new features
<azeem> new packages are new features this time I thought
<LordKow> bug 164229
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164229 in crash "Please merge crash-4.0-4.9-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (utils) " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164229
<azeem> unless you get an exception, that is
<LaserJock> I think that FF is also upstream version freeze for hardy
<azeem> would be strange that it wouldn't be new package freeze as well then
<LaserJock> yes
<azeem> uh, or maybe I misread the initial question
<LaserJock> I read it to mean new uploads period
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: new package freeze == ff == uvf
<Hobbsee> it's changed
<Hobbsee> which means that we're going to need to be relatively ruthless about the queue
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: that's what I was trying to say
<RAOF> Hm.  gnome-power-manager is a little bit overprotective when it can't get HAL information.  It's just turned off my laptop as soon as the battery-low light started flashing :(
<leonel> LaserJock: what I meant  was that  PostgreSQL 8.3 beta 3 came out today and maybe  for january  there will be a  PostgreSQL 8.3  release  and  I think would be great to have it included in Hardy
<LaserJock> leonel: you might need to file an exception if it's after the freeze then
<azeem> leonel: january isn't february 14th
 * slangasek checks his calendar
<leonel> azeem:  and  Maybe isn't  a thing that will happen for sure
<leonel> LaserJock: thanks
<Ubulette> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/palmer ???
<Ubulette> Started 12 hours ago ?
<Fujitsu> Oh dear, who blew up Soyuz?
<Hobbsee> that would appear to have finished building.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Apparently not.
<Hobbsee> well, from the build log
<StevenHarperUK> Hi- I have a Question, once my package gets past the NEW Queue - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=&start=60- how do I supply future updates, I have a 0.2.1.14 ready to replace it.
<StevenHarperUK> My package is easycrypt - 3rd in the queue
<Hobbsee> do the update, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsorts
<Hobbsee> -t
<StevenHarperUK> Sorry Hobbsee so you mean join the Launchpad team?
<Hobbsee> NO.  read the fine description.
<Hobbsee> subscribe != join
<Hobbsee> is *this* why so many people appear to have trouble.
<StevenHarperUK> Right so you mean on Launchpad (implied) I subscribe to that team?
 * Fujitsu didn't see the `to' in Hobbsee's statement.
<Hobbsee> uh, no, read what i said.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: LP terminology is unclear?
<Hobbsee> subscribe the bug.  read the team description.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: if you've got suggestions on how to fix it, go right ahead.
<StevenHarperUK> "do the update" : on what ? where?
 * Hobbsee checks the second link in the topic
 * Hobbsee would suggest seeing the section marked "Preparing New Revisions"
 * ajmitch was looking for such a link to the latest new upstream version sponsorship rules
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: with feature freeze?
<ajmitch> given that persia posted to the list about it in the last couple of days
<ajmitch> no, just how to go about it
<Hobbsee> oh right
<Hobbsee> not sure, havent read it yet :)
<StevenHarperUK> Cheers Hobbsee I can see what you mean now
<ajmitch> about interdiff, etc
 * ajmitch digs for archives
<ajmitch> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-November/002767.html
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: Thanks I have all the info now, I just have to wait till it gets processed.  Thanks
<ajmitch> sigh, such arduous duties for work
 * ajmitch has to make the ultimate sacrifice today
<StevenHarperUK> Can I have your PC when your gone then?
<ajmitch> no
<StevenHarperUK> Was worth a shot..
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: With what horrors have you been tasked?
<ajmitch> leaving work early to go to the pub
<Hobbsee> <gasp>
<StevenK> Isn't that an Australian thing to do?
<ajmitch> we can manage that here as well
<Hobbsee> you just take a sheep with you
<pwnguin> new zealand is like the australian canada
 * ajmitch lobs an exploding sheep at Hobbsee 
 * Hobbsee shrugs, seeing as it exploded in the ocean
<ScottK> Boiled mutton?
<StevenHarperUK> Chuck another Moose on the Barbie?
<pwnguin> too much S*K
 * StevenK adds to the mix
 * Hobbsee stirs, puts through the blender.
<ajmitch> blended boiled mutton?
<ajmitch> ick
<pwnguin> im just gonna throw it out there: skowalik is more rare than StephenK
<pwnguin> or stevenk
<TheMuso> lol
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Why have you not given up your nick already?
<spowers> maybe this is a dumb question considering who i'm asking, but can i get a reasonable approximation of a gutsy install in a chroot by using debootstrap?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Grrm?
<jdong> sure, debootstrap is an easy way of initializing a Debian/Ubuntu environment
<pwnguin> spowers: im pretty sure you can just use pbuilder to do what you want
<pwnguin> and i think it uses debootstrap
<Fujitsu> StevenK: You don't meet the standard of the Evil Empire.
<jdong> spowers: is this for the purpose of build testing Ubuntu packages?
<jdong> spowers: or for something else?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Oh, plap off
<spowers> nfs-rooted box
<jdong> spowers: oh, then (1) yes (2) this is not a support channel
<spowers> jdong: in that case, it's for build testing packages, and thank you :)
<jdong> *blink*
 * jdong walks away
<pwnguin> well if its for building test packages, you should be using pbuilder :P
<pwnguin> spowers: lying isnt nice
<jdong> spowers: though thanks, the humor has brightened a long stressful day :)
<spowers> well, sorry if i used the wrong venue, but i didn't even want to try asking #ubuntu
<pwnguin> answers.launchpad.net seems to work okay for me
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's The Evil Canonical Empire (tm), tyvm.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ah, sorry.
<Fujitsu> Or Â®?
 * StevenK sighs
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: sorry, did I forget to grovel at the mention?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, but StevenK will have to do something about that, not me
<ajmitch> ah
<StevenK> I will? What?
<ajmitch> StevenK wouldn't do anything though
<ajmitch> you'd beat me up, however
 * Hobbsee is not a part of The Evil Canonical Empire (tm), so can do nothing.
<ajmitch> no, but you'd still beat me up, just for fun :P
<Hobbsee> oh, of course.  that goes wihtout syaing.
<Fujitsu> Did this Gutsy machine just turn into a Mac? I've got a very System 7ish watch as a cursor on a blank screen.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: lol
<ajmitch> it's always been like that
<Fujitsu> And woot, PAM seems fscked too.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's from too much computer use . your eyes are doing that
<RAOF> Hm.  Has hal died in Hardy for anyone else?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> not silly enough to run hardy :)
<RAOF> Soft!
 * TheMuso is staying well away from hardy for a while. Chroots are good enough for me.
 * ajmitch likes his working system for now
<ajmitch> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tzdata/+bug/164254 looks odd
<TheMuso> I am in agreeance with ajmitch.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164254 in tzdata "tzdata upgrade: /usr/sbin/tzconfig: No such file or directory" [Undecided,New]
<jdong> oh look at my functional hal from gutsy.
 * ajmitch has an older tzdata, but its postinst doesn't reference tzconfig
<Hobbsee> RAOF: nope
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Ak.  So either it's a config issue, or I've upgraded at an inopportune time.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: or i just havent seen the effects yet
<ajmitch> you probably need to reboot for it to die
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Heh, restarted recently?
<ajmitch> or RAOF has half-upgraded stuff
<Hobbsee> RAOF: define recently
<RAOF> Today?
<RAOF> After your last update?
<Hobbsee> not yet
<Hobbsee> i did alst night
<RAOF> Eh.  It'll either fix itself after a while or I'll file a bug.
<RAOF> Either way, gutsy still works :)
<pwnguin> RAOF: oh you fool.
<pwnguin> you installed the policykit
<RAOF> pwnguin: This is true.  Or at least by "installed" you mean "had pulled in by automated updates".
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> sucker
<RAOF> That's the breaker?
<pwnguin> almost certainly
<pwnguin> thats been the only updates in the last few hours
<pwnguin> its something thats almost guarenteed not to work out smoothly on first go, too ;)
<RAOF> What?  A security system accidentally forbidding access to important stuff?  Surely not!
<pwnguin> i think theres a rebuild in the works
<pwnguin> good luck
<RAOF> Eh, it'll work eventually.
<RAOF> And then I can go back to nouveau.
<pwnguin> i should probably push out a thinkfinger rebuild for hardy now that my laptop is running it
<pwnguin> i kinda wish people could report bugs to my ppa, as i have a hard time tracking what i have and havent fixed after a few weeks
<TheMuso> Well, I'll wait till I do my epic post to my blog, which is currently being reviewed by a family member./c
<TheMuso> ugh wronog window.
<TheMuso> and accessibility scewed up
<TheMuso> screwed
<StevenK> Whoda thunk it
 * StevenK hides
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Well, somehow I managed to up arrow to that while trying to restart the at-spi registry daemon.
<ajmitch> heh
<pwnguin> are there any programs besides gnome-panel that affect fullscreen apps?
<pwnguin> like a dock at the bottom
<spowers> you mean have netwm hints so maximized windows should avoid them? fspanel, wmaker's dock... kicker?
<pwnguin> ok, GNOME apps
<pwnguin> and yes, things that hint that maximized windows shouldn't overlap them
<pwnguin> currently i have an upstream using always on top, i'd like to be able to point out another project that managed to get it working with metacity
<pwnguin> awesome
<pwnguin> https://edge.launchpad.net/~satanic/+archive
<TheMuso> hmmm. I am not sure if I like the idea of the get-build-deps script using aptitude...
<RAOF> pwnguin: avant-window-navigator?
<pwnguin> RAOF: does that actually stop apps from maximizing under it?
<RAOF> It's got an option to.
<pwnguin> does it work?
<RAOF> Last time I chekced, yes.
<pwnguin> with metacity?
 * Hobbsee wants to try that
<RAOF> Indeed.  And xcompmgr
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Go ahead.  Now in hardy universe :)
<Hobbsee> :P
<Hobbsee> dont know how it works, though
<pwnguin> cellwriter guy was saying metacity was kicking cellwriter out of the struts it set up
<persia> Riddell: re: bug 158252: Could you suggest what additional changes should be made to "reduce to the minimal case"?  Should debian/rules be adjusted to not copy the autotools hints in clean: ?  Separately, is this checked for packages that copy the autotools hints in configure: ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158252 in dspam "dspam won't start:  /var/run/dspam missing in tmpfs" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158252
<Hobbsee> RAOF: under what?
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Under what?  avant-window-navigator is the package name.
<pwnguin> its not in hardy yet
<Hobbsee> oh, it's in new
<RAOF> Ah, of course.
<RAOF> Hm.  Who uploaded it, though?
<persia> seb128, looks like
<persia> (bug #118589)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118589 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Avant Window Navigator" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118589
<Fujitsu> Ooh, shiny!
<jdong> ooh shiny indeed :)
<RAOF> Ah.  seb128 was using lp & didn't leave any comments on revu.
<RAOF> Yay duplication!
<Hobbsee> seb doesnt, no
<Fujitsu> Gnah, no instant-apply, but it has buttons like it should.
<bluefoxicy> this is fun
<bluefoxicy> every time I start thunderbird it crashes on load message
<bluefoxicy> rm compatibility.ini
<bluefoxicy> apport doesn't even pick it up.
<Hobbsee> it must just hate you'
 * TheMuso seriously considers going offline. That CG lightning bolt was close.
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: You are being told to use a real mail client.
<StevenK> TheMuso: CG?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Cloud to ground.
<RAOF> TheMuso: OOoooh.  There's actual rain happening somewhere?  Yay!
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yep, its absolutely pooring down here.
<RAOF> Yay!  My brother's up, maybe we can throw a huge electrical storm for him.
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  I used evolution for a while.  I couldn't handle EDS constantly pushing its working set to 850MB while evolution ran its own 600MB for a 200 message mailbox open for an hour.
<TheMuso> If it makes it to Sydney, I guess you could.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Can you blow *really hard* in my direction? :)
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: I'm a Kmail fan myself.
<bluefoxicy> I try to keep Qt stuff off my system
<TheMuso> F***K that was close.
<TheMuso> I'm outa here.
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: I work at the same thing with GTK.
<nixternal> which one of you decided to break libgpg-error?
<nixternal> StevenK: ?? was it you? :)
<nixternal> Riddell: or was it you? :)
<StevenK> Broke how?
<nixternal> in batteling to fix the .la issue, you broke the .so :)
<nixternal> StevenK: there is no .so files anymore and it is breaking my kde4 builds
<nixternal> s/is/are/
<StevenK> Yes there are, they are under /lib
<StevenK> It is not my fault libtool is FITH
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> libtool suxorz
<nixternal> make[2]: Entering directory `/home/kde-devel/kde/build/KDE/kdepimlibs'
<nixternal> make[2]: *** No rule to make target `/usr/lib/libgpg-error.so', needed by `lib/libgpgme++-pth.so.1.0.0'.  Stop.
<nixternal> that would explain that then
 * nixternal wonders why it is looking under /usr/lib all of a sudden
<StevenK> libgpgme++ is probably broken, then
 * nixternal is looking at it right now as a matter of fact
<Ubulette> nixternal, I've proposed a patch for that, i've been ignored :(
<LaserJock> phew, almost got gcompris done
 * LaserJock had the bright idea of creating a Main-only hardy pbuilder
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<nixternal> Ubulette: what is that?
<nixternal> this is freakin' annoying
<Hobbsee> Ubulette: did you subscribe the sponroship team?
<LaserJock> StevenK: yeah, yeah, getting there
 * Hobbsee ponders banning LaserJock from all ubuntu channels, until he produces poniez.
<Ubulette> i've posted my patch in the bug that did the /usr/lib -> /lib migration
<StevenK> Haha
<nixternal> there is no libgpgme++-pth anywhere on thsi system
<jdong> Hobbsee: quick make him flood in and out a few times :D
<persia> Ubulette: Which bug #?
<Hobbsee> Ubulette: doesn't answer the question
<Ubulette> bug 139635
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139635 in libgpg-error "[cryptsetup] library dependency in /sbin/cryptsetup" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139635
<Ubulette> patches are in comments 30 and 31
<Ubulette> tested locally, and in my ppa
<Ubulette> i'm using those debs since
<persia> Ubulette: Looking at the bug log, it appears indeed that these patches were not submitted to sponsors for upload.  You might want to review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<Ubulette> persia, i'm used to post patches everywhere using the respective native bug system. it works well, except here
<persia> Ubulette: Ubuntu's processes are a bit different than other places.  There is a search for finding proposed patches, but bugs with the patch tag are higher priority, and bugs for which someone actively requests sponsorship are higher priority still.
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: We have almost 40000 bugs. We don't poll them all regularly for patches.
<StevenK> 10,000 source packages, 40,000 bugs and roughly 40 people.
<jdong> meh that's just 1000 per person :)
 * persia feels inadequate, being only subscribed to 1/4 of quota
<StevenK> Hah
<jdong> and if we store the database on reiserfs, only like 10 per person
<bddebian> heh
<Fujitsu> jdong: ... why?
<jdong> :D
<Fujitsu> Had bad experiences with it, have we?
<jdong> Fujitsu: nah, just like to spread the popular joke sarcastically :)
<jdong> Fujitsu: my experiences with the reliability of reiserfs have been generally positive
<Fujitsu> I have similar experiences.
<LaserJock> man, that reminds me
<StevenK> If you want to be shown reiser sucks:
<LaserJock> I get the San Fran. area news
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: About ponies?
<LaserJock> and they have updates on Reiser's case
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<Fujitsu> I haven't see an update on that in quite a while.
<LaserJock> he's made himself co-counsel this last week
<LaserJock> his kid was on the stand
<LaserJock> real sad
<StevenK> Create 10-12 reiserfs images on a reiser filesystem, and then run fsck over it. The reiser fsck trawls the entire filesystem looking for things that look like b-trees, and stitches them all together ...
<Fujitsu> Hahaha, yes.
<RAOF> Whoops.
<Fujitsu> reiserfsck is known to be armed and dangerous.
<Fujitsu> Sometimes I really question aptitude's dependency resolution algorithm.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Oh?
<jdong> Fujitsu: agreed
<Fujitsu> Why, when I try to remove beagle, does it want to take ekiga, gnome-terminal, nautilus, rhythmbox, ubuntu-desktop, etc. with it?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: It doesn't trawl the filesystem looking for things that look like b-trees, right? :-)
<jdong> on reiserfsck that is
<persia> Fujitsu: Are you removing libbeagle0?
<jdong> reiserfsck is delaying mkfs.reiserfs.
<Fujitsu> persia: That is one of the things, yes.
<Fujitsu> Is there some evil panel applet that wants it?
<StevenK> Actually, if you screw up the b-tree bad enough, reiserfsck == mkfs.reiserfs.
<persia> Fujitsu: Some of those binaries are compiled against the library, to provide support if beagled is available, and would break if it were removed.
<Fujitsu> Ahh.
<jdong> Fujitsu: nautilus apparently wants it
<Fujitsu> Thanks persia, didn't think it'd be that.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Hahah.
<jdong> StevenK: yeah, though that shouldn't be a part of normal operation per se
<persia> Fujitsu: When aptitude whines, check build-depends :)
<jdong> StevenK: I've never seen reiserfs corrupt itself without hardware issues to blame too
 * Fujitsu has never had to reiserfsck, fortunately.
<jdong> StevenK: but if that ever happens, you are absolutely on your own :D
<Fujitsu> And I used to have a lot of filesystems running it.
<StevenK> I've never run reiserfs. I don't plan on.
<jdong> StevenK: a more concerning problem is that currently AFAIK there is *one* kernel developer that shows interested in bug-fixing reiserfs
<jdong> the other one apparently quit
<StevenK> Hah, does that mean Namesys is still paying people?
<jdong> StevenK: no, the one guy is a SUSE dev, novell's paying him
<StevenK> Ah
<jdong> presumably because they still have supported releases that default to Reiser
<StevenK> Oh that's right, I forgot SuSE did that stupidity
<StevenK> I am quite happy with ext3.
<jdong> StevenK: at the time I guess it made sense. reiserfs was the first Linux journaling FS and performed way faster than ext2 even
<StevenK> XFS if I want a filesystem that can resize online
<jdong> StevenK: since then ext3 has made improvements and proven itself to have a nice upgrade path
<Fujitsu> StevenK: You can't resize ext3 online?
<jdong> StevenK: and ext3 can be resized online too :)
<LaserJock> anybody know if dh_python will cause problems for a package that has a pycompat?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why are you using either of them?
<Fujitsu> They're both deprecated.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Not without kernel patches when the machine in question was installed
<jdong> StevenK: need to reserve some resize_inodes (manpage)
<persia> LaserJock: isn't dh_python deprecated?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: *I'm* not, debian is
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Ah, Dapper?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Right
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Tell Debian that they're wrong.
<LaserJock> persia: yes
<persia> LaserJock: Update to the New Python Packaging Policy :)
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure out if it's gonna actually cause problem
<StevenK> Fujitsu: The machine was dragged into service at about Edgy's release, running Dapper
<Fujitsu> Which is decidedly unnew.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Aha.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: So I think the choice of XFS is justified. :-)
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Certainly.
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, that's the problem with relative adjectives in nomenclature.  Look at the modernist movement for another example of people with good ideas and poor names :)
<Ubulette> nixternal: you're on your own then. feel free to fix the mess.
<nixternal> Ubulette: ln -s :)  for the time being at least
<RAOF> LaserJock: Are they using one of dh_py{central,support} as well as dh_python, or just dh_python?
<jdong> StevenK: IMO there's still a purpose that justifies every FS. I still use a reiserfs loopback for my pbuilder build dir
<LaserJock> RAOF: looks like just dh_python, one sec
<Fujitsu> ... now that beagle is gone, tracker of course takes over the CPU and disk.
<StevenK> jdong: Ew
<Ubulette> nixternal, lol, locally, that's enough for sure ;)
<persia> Fujitsu: Again, you can't purge the libraries, but you can remove the daemon & agent.
<nixternal> it built my kde4 pimlibs, that's all that makes me happy right now
<jdong> StevenK: why ew? reiserfs can nuke a build environment in 1.5 seconds. How long does it take for ext3 to clean up a builder? :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Right.
<LaserJock> just dh_python
<persia> jdong: Try LVM snapshots: no cleanup time
<jdong> persia: I'll have to invest the effort to set up LVM though, but that's on the list for my next reformat
 * Fujitsu is in fact moving a machine over to LVM right now, for sbuild.
<StevenK> Mmmm, sbuild
 * StevenK hugs his schroot/sbuild setup
<nixternal> my lazy arse still hasn't completed my sbuild box
<LaserJock> ugg
<LaserJock> gimmie pbuilder/dchroot any day ;-)
<nixternal> gimme conary/rmake any day ;)
<LaserJock> pfft
<persia> My only complaint with sbuild / LVM is that the source image must be the same size as the target image.  I'd really like to have a heap of 2GB source images, and 10GB (or so) targets to handle larger package builds.
<LaserJock> nixternal: that stuff is cheating
<LaserJock> ;-)
<nixternal> hehe
<Fujitsu> persia: You could do that fairly easily.
<nixternal> but man is it easy
<persia> LaserJock: dchroot is only a wrapper for schroot now.
<jdong> emerge -uDav world!!
<LaserJock> persia: I know :(
<Fujitsu> Hm, maybe not, I forget how snapshots work...
<LaserJock> persia: which caused my quite a bit of consternation when that happened
<persia> Fujitsu: Really?  Do I need to do something to grow the filesystem when I make a snapshot?
<persia> LaserJock: Why?  I've not yet found something dchroot could do that schroot didn't also handle.  I'd be interested in the counterexample.
<Fujitsu> persia: You could easily add a hook to resize2fs, but changing the size of the length of the snapshot might not be possible...
 * Fujitsu looks.
 * persia finds resize2fs not lightning fast
<LaserJock> persia: it took me a while to figure out schroot.conf. dchroot was brain-dead easy
<jdong> Fujitsu: some combination with unionfs could prove interesting.
<jdong> </crack>
<LaserJock> persia: but now that I've got the hang of it it *is* nicer
<LaserJock> *is
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  Config skew.  I see.  Wasn't there a compatibility layer, or was that broken?  (I migrated use prior to the official migration).
<mebrown> as the maintainer of 'mock' in fedora, I have been greatly puzzled by the debian chroot build stuff...
<StevenK> mebrown: Why? We like to be sure our packages can build on a base system with only what we specify it needs.
<StevenK> mebrown: Also it means you don't need to be running the release you're building for.
<mebrown> yes, but when I was trying to use it, it required a lot of setup.
<mebrown> mock basically does all that for you out of the box with zero setup.
<StevenK> mebrown: A lot of setup is running pbuilder create and waiting ten minutes?
<mebrown> dedicating LVM partitions to do builds sounds crazy
<persia> mebrown: From a very quick look, I'd say that it's just different tools.  mock seems to map to pbuilder / sbuild / etc.  The various means of implementing the underlying chroots can be adapted to any chroot/build manager.
<persia> mebrown: Not large partitions, but it's a lot faster to snap a known good clean environment than reliably populate a new one.
<mebrown> So, when I have a source package in rpm, if I want to rebuild the package with mock, one command: "mock -r TARGET_DISTRO rebuild name_of.src.rpm"
<Fujitsu> mebrown: sbuild -d hardy something.dsc
<mebrown> and I can rebuild in a chroot for any target distro.
<persia> mebrown: Sure, I use sbuild -A -d TARGET_DISTRO package.dsc
<mebrown> sbuild sets up a chroot?
<persia> mebrown: sbuild has a hook mechanism to a variety of chroot builders.
<mebrown> do I have to do any setup, or does that work out of the box?
<persia> I have it using schroot with LVM snapshots to get a clean one, but one could also untar tarballs, or just create a new one, if one wished.
<Fujitsu> sbuild requires a little more setup than alternate, slightly slower, solutions such as pbuilder.
<persia> mebrown: If you have a working chroot, it works out of the box.
<mebrown> persia, the "if you have a working..." part is the hard part, then.
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, sbuild / schroot / LVM requires a little setup.  sbuild on it's own also works.
<Fujitsu> persia: True.
<jdong> meh IMO nothing beats pbuilder with ease of setup
<jdong> but sbuild doesn't look terribly unreasonable either
<LaserJock> how do you move into a dir in debian/rules?
<minghua> LaserJock: cd?
<persia> mebrown: There are sensible defaults.  My memory is that the current sbuild default is to use schroot, and that the current schroot default is to create a chroot in tmpfs.
<mebrown> mock will automatically cache just about everything and internally manages it all. So if you do a clean build for a distro you have never built, it will take a while to pull down the chroot packages and whatnot.
<LaserJock> is it ${cd; blah blah}
<RAOF> LaserJock: cd, and then make sere that you don't linebreak :)
<mebrown> but after that, it caches everything (basically creates a root tarball that it uses as a cache), and keeps everything up-to-date with zero user configuration.
<persia> mebrown: OK.  Different question: why isn't mock in Ubuntu :)
<RAOF> <tab>cd $FOO ; bar1 ; bar2 ; etc...
<minghua> LaserJock: I know "(cd foo; bar)" works.  I don't know if it's the best way to do it.
<mebrown> what i am trying to find out is if there is something like that already for ubuntu that I am missing...
<LaserJock> minghua: ah, that's the one
<Fujitsu> It would be very simple to create a pbuilder wrapper to do that, I think.
<Fujitsu> Or sbuild.
<persia> mebrown: Most of the tools have sensible defaults, but I don't think anyone's gone so far as to write the pbuilder hook to download trusted known-good build chroots.
<mebrown> would actually be willing to abstract mock enough to use with ubuntu. But seems like you already have a plethora of tools...
<persia> Fujitsu: sbuild might be a little harder, as it would need schroot to be able to autodefine a source, which needs yet more hooks.
<minghua> mebrown: Does mock builds a minimal environment of the other distro?
<mebrown> ah. so mock comes out of the box with preconfigured configs to build all supported distros. You dont need to configure anything and it creates the chroot on the fly.
<persia> mebrown: Actually, we like having lots of tools.  This way we can more easily expose bugs in one or another of them.
<Fujitsu> persia: mk-sbuild-lv makes that fairly simple.
<mebrown> but, it makes it *much* more difficult for a new person to get up to speed...
<persia> Fujitsu: If you use LVM, and have available space in the VG, yes.
<mebrown> I am considered fairly proficient in fedora, but trying to port some packages to ubuntu and it just feels harder.
<persia> mebrown: A lot of that difficulty is documentation, rather than actual uset effort.
<jdong> mebrown: probably because you are familiar with the fedora setup more :)
<jdong> mebrown: I feel similar inadequate doing RPM packaging
<jdong> similarly*
<mebrown> true enough, and I am not trying to hide that fact...
<jdong> mebrown: nothing to hide, something to be proud of :)
<jdong> at the end of the day, we're all on the same team :)
<mebrown> So: so far I have heard 'sbuild' 'pbuilder' and maybe another or so...
<mebrown> where are the docs for each?
<persia> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<persia> !sbuild
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sbuild - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<persia> Grrr..  You should!
<jdong> persia: we should add that factoid if there's a wiki page associated
<persia> ubotu: sbuild is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<StevenK> persia: I think you need someone like Hobbsee to say that
<jdong> StevenK: meh they get it in -ops
<persia> ubotu: sbuild is a system to easily build packages in a clean schroot environment.  To get started with SBuild, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<mebrown> So: what would be nice would be a nice interface to all this that is one command to rebuild a source package...
<persia> StevenK: If I don't have permission, it goes into the moderation queue.
<StevenK> persia: Ah
<mebrown> without having to preconfigure *anything*
<persia> mebrown: We don't want to have one command to do it, we'd welcome more.
<mebrown> ok. For fedora/redhat/etc, mock is that.
<jdong> persia: it would be nice, as I think mebrown is suggesting, for sbuild/pbuilder to work almost entirely out of the box
<StevenK> Which is difficult
<mebrown> and it is roughly 1200 lines of python code.
<minghua> mebrown: Two commands isn't really that much more.
<jdong> but yeah, pbuilder is already trivial to set up
<jdong> it's a single create command
<ScottK> jdong: I think that's the goal of pbuilder-dist in ubuntu-dev-tools
<jdong> ScottK: awesome
<ScottK> It pretty much does.
<jdong> ScottK: I might have to retire prevu when that happens, and just contribute a mangle-backport-version type tool
<persia> mebrown: So, such a one-stop solution would cache known good systems, or generate them with debootstrap when requested, and then run through the debian build process by calling debian/rules targets.
<minghua> And I assume Debian/Ubuntu people prefer the two command process because using chroots is faster.
<persia> minghua: mock uses chroots
<mebrown> mock automatically caches the results and internally manages it.
<minghua> s/chroots/old chroots/
<mebrown> s/results/chroots/
<persia> minghua: mock even uses old chroots, if they are up to date
<minghua> Okay.  I agree mock is better.  But I feel pbuilder is simple enough.
 * persia isn't sure mock is better, only that it looks good
<mebrown> so two commands. Is this right?
<mebrown> sudoe pbuilder create
<mebrown> sudo pbuilder build pkg.dsc
<persia> mebrown: Currently, we have one setup command, and one build command.
<LaserJock> !packagingguide
<ubotu> packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<LaserJock> woot
<persia> There are different options for each, depending on the selected backends
<mebrown> how do you build against different distros?
<LaserJock> my bot foo is still good
 * TheMuso returns.
<TheMuso> That was an awesome storm.
<LaserJock> !sbuild
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sbuild - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<RAOF> TheMuso: Please send it this way, then ;)
<persia> mebrown: You select different target chroots.  The systems only currently work for Debian-style chroots: I don't think we can generate an RPM without alien.
<mebrown> I have a build system set up for mock where it automatically builds me rhel4, rhel5, fedora 7, fedora 8, fedora-devel, and suse packages all for i386 and x86_64.
<mebrown> I am trying to set up similar for debian.
<TheMuso> RAOF: I think there is enough in it for it to get to Sydney.
 * RAOF is certain TheMuso has a weather-control system *somewhere*
<TheMuso> If it doesn't go north first.
<mebrown> persia, not trying to do rpm.
<mebrown> just trying to build debs.
<Hobbsee> !sbuild is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<ubotu> But sbuild already means something else!
<persia> mebrown: If you're just targeting dsc -> deb, then it's just a matter of selecting the right chroot.
<mebrown> but I need to do it for ubuntu sid i386/x86_64, feisty i386/x86_64, gutsy ..., hardy...
<persia> Hobbsee: Please see the second suggestion in queue, as it's more verbose, and better :)
<LaserJock> persia: try !sbuild now
<persia> mebrown: Different chroots
<Hobbsee> fixed.
 * persia cheers Hobbsee's magic bot wranging powers
<persia> err wrangling
<LaserJock> I beat Hobbsee to it
<LaserJock> :p
<minghua> mebrown: I *think* "sudo pbuilder --create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd" is probably more correct.
<persia> mebrown: More verbosely, when I build for Debian, I currently use `sbuild -A -d sid foo.dsc` or `sbuild -A -d etch foo.dsc`, and when I build for Ubuntu I use `sbuild -A -d gutsy foo.dsc` or `sbuild -A -d hardy foo.dsc`.
<persia> LaserJock: In that case, you get a golden whip: now please find matching ponies :)
<mebrown> persia, would that work out of the box on a clean ubuntu install, or do I need to configure stuff first?
<persia> mebrown: You'd need chroots for the different targets.  As Fujitsu mentioned before, if you're using sbuild on LVM, the mk-sbuild-lv.sh script does that fairly easily.  As minghua mentioned, if you're using pbuilder on tmpfs, the pbuilder-create script does that fairly easily.
<Fujitsu> Can anybody make sense of the last comment on bug #162396
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 162396 in compiz-fusion-plugins-main "Mouse jumps to other screen when using "enhanced zoom desktop"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162396
<Fujitsu> Erm, not that.
<Fujitsu> Bug #162296
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 162296 in ircii-pana "CVE-2007-4584 stack based buffer overflow via long MODE command" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162296
<ScottK> mebrown: If you look at the pbuilder-dist script that I mentioned earlier (in ubuntu-dev-tools) you name it based on what distro you want it to make.
<jdong> Fujitsu: totally unrelated to bug report
<persia> mebrown: If you want to have mock handle the chroots differently, you may want to initially create them with debootstrap on demand, and manage them internally.  debootstrap should have support for most Debian/Ubuntu releases by default.
<Fujitsu> jdong: That's what I thought.
<jdong> Fujitsu: shows basic understanding of buffer overflow though <g>
<mebrown> persia, I'm not really trying to modify mock to handle deb stuff. I'm just trying to take what I already know about mock and map it to ubuntu concepts.
<mebrown> and since I happen to be the current maintainer/upstream for mock, I know it pretty well...
 * minghua should port ubuntu-dev-tools to Debian...
<mebrown> What I like about mock is that, on a completely clean system, 1) install mock, 2) run "mock rebuild package.src.rpm" will rebuild a package. Zero setup or overhead.
<jdong> mebrown: sounds to me like on a basic level, mock == pbuilder + running pbuilder create on pbuilder build when build environment does not exist yet
<mebrown> jdong, basically, it sounds like that, yes.
<jdong> mebrown: I don't think that's too hard to even hackishly script in 10 lines of Python to emulate the identical behavior
<persia> mebrown: OK.  At a base level, each chroot is built from a given release, and so has base software & /etc/apt/sources.list for that release.  The build system goes into a chroot, installs the build dependencies, and builds the package by calling debian/rules targets.  Everything else is just various wrappers to this, with various different choices.
<jdong> mebrown: I write prevu, a backporting tool that uses pbuidler in the background and workflow is as easy as (1) install (2) sudo prevu-init (3) prevu <sourcepkg>
<mebrown> persia, mock works almost exactly the same way, it just doesnt make user have to manage chroots manually.
<jdong> mebrown: and prevu is nothing more than a bit of scripting on top of pbuilder....
<minghua> Honestly I don't see the need of a tool like mock in Debian/Ubuntu.  It's just not a common user case.
<jdong> mebrown: in all honesty creating a pbuilder requires copying 1 line of code from a wiki page, and I think that's a reasonable expectation from someone wanting to build source packages
<mebrown> minghua, like I said, I'm not trying to port mock to ubuntu, I'm trying to get up to speed...
<persia> mebrown: Right, which is why I think it's good.  If mock is ported to Ubuntu, I'd suggest using as much of mock as possible: the things to change would be to use debootstrap to generate the chroots if they don't previously exist, and call the right targets.
 * persia has been discussing the wrong goal, and ceases
<minghua> mebrown: I understand.  I am just trying to say Ubuntu probably doesn't have such a tool and doesn't need one.
<mebrown> persia, I have a workflow for creating my rpms, and am trying to understand how best to map that workflow to building debs.
 * mebrown copies scrollback text for further review... 
<persia> mebrown: In that case, the big difference is that the user needs to manage the chroots manually.  Beyond that, there are two primary schools: pbuilder and sbuild.  Both are good.
<jdong> mebrown: apart from running a pbuilder create command, the only thing, pbuilder's build command should do exactly what mock has been doing for you :)
<mebrown> where I was getting hung up is managing base.tar.gz files...
<mebrown> seems like I shouldn't have to do that by hand.
<Fujitsu> mebrown: What management?
<mebrown> creating them, for one thing.
<jdong> mebrown: base.tgz is created by a pbuilder create command, a one time ordeal
<mebrown> what if you are building against a development distro that is changing?
<mebrown> do you have to recreate base.tgz every day/week/month?
<LaserJock> you update the chroot
<jdong> mebrown: periodically run the pbuilder update command
<mebrown> I am capable of dealing with this.
<LaserJock> so pbuilder build to create it initially, and then pbuilder update periodically to keep it updated
<jdong> s/build/create
<persia> mebrown: The base install also only contains a small number of packages, so if they are out of date, it's not such a big issue: updated libraries are typically pulled from the archives.
<Fujitsu> Updating it on each builds seems like overkill.
<mebrown> I would like to just point out that having a nice silly wrapper that hides all that would be nice. This is what mock does for the rpm world.
<LaserJock> jdong: darn, yeah
 * TheMuso updates his sbuild chroots daily.
<persia> TheMuso: with cron, or manually?
<TheMuso> persia: Manually.
<mebrown> ouch.
<TheMuso> persia: The boxes I have sbuild on are usually shut down of a night.
<LaserJock> I do it before I build
<persia> I keep being tempted by cron, but never quite dare.  I'm hoping someone else will try it first, and report success.
<LaserJock> I don't build all that often
<persia> LaserJock: every time?
<mebrown> wouldnt it be possible to add some extra intelligence to pbuilder to automatically create the chroot if it doesnt exist, and keep it updated if it does?
<TheMuso> persia: I have a script that updates all my chroots in one single run.
<LaserJock> persia: well, once before I start a packaging project
<jdong> mebrown: considering the amount of work that goes into testing, verifying, editing, and other maintenance that goes into my everyday work, I don't think managing pbuilder is anywhat significant overhead time
<LaserJock> persia: I don't usually do more than one package / day
 * mebrown shuts up for a while and reads docs. 
<TheMuso> And, that adds time to getting a package built.
<persia> mebrown: Sure, but each chroot requires a tarball: this may not be interesting for people who have limited disk space: an optional hook might be nice though.
<jdong> mebrown: but if you want to, while learning pbuidler yourself, script it in a fashion more automagic, you are of course welcome :)
<minghua> mebrown: The "keep it updated if it exists" part is quite unfriendly to off-line work.
<mebrown> thank you, everybody...
<mebrown> jdong, yeah, I've heard that before...
<mebrown> that is how I wound up owning mock in the first place...
<LaserJock> hehe
<jdong> :)
<jdong> it's the global language of FOSS
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  If your build frequency is less than once a day, I suppose before every build makes sense.
<jdong> LaserJock: these octahedral coordination complex thingies hurt!
<persia> minghua: for offline, don't you need a local mirror anyway?  In that case, wouldn't it just update off the local mirror?
<mebrown> minghua, actually it is funny because I've never had anybody ask to make mock work off-line.
<LaserJock> persia: yeah :(
<mebrown> it wouldnt work offline very well, anyways, because it has to pull build deps into the chroot after untarring the root.
<jdong> mebrown: lucky :) I've had someone ask me to make prevu work behind proxies in the first few weeks of public release :D
<minghua> persia: Not really.  My apt cache is usually good enough.
<mebrown> jdong, mock works perfectly well behind a proxy...
<LaserJock> mebrown: we have apt caches so if you've built the package before you can do it without net connection
<persia> minghua: Ah.  Right.  "Maintainer" model vs "Sponsor" model.  My apt-cache is useless most of the time.
<minghua> mebrown: Maybe mock's user cases are different.  But I use pbuilder off-line quite often.
<mebrown> LaserJock, I actually just added a 'yum cache' to mock for the last release. You still need a small net connection to do the equivalent of 'apt-get update', though.
<minghua> persia: Yeah.  And the "package has a maintainer" vs. "a MOTU can touch all universe packages" model. :-)
<LaserJock> mebrown: if you're chroot is updated it's no problem
<mebrown> minghua, I use mock off-line a bit, but I just keep a mirror on my disk.
<LaserJock> so you could update in the morning and work all day offline pretty much if you've got the packages in the cache
<persia> minghua: That's different.  There are people in Debian who sponsor all sorts of random things, and people in Ubuntu who focus on a few packages.
<minghua> persia: True, but percentage wise, I believe there is a big difference.
<LaserJock> so to have a "mock" mock you'd pbuilder update && pbuilder build with a builder create if it doesn't already exist?
<minghua> persia: My Ubuntu apt cache is less useful than the Debian one, too.
<persia> minghua: Likely true.  I think the sponsor count is similar in absolute numbers, but Ubuntu doesn't have the same quantity of maintainers.
<persia> LaserJock: Right, but mock as different internals
<mebrown> LaserJock, pretty much.
<jdong> LaserJock: pretty much
<mebrown> LaserJock, basically, it comes pre-configured out of the box. One command to rebuild a package.
<mebrown> LaserJock, "mock rebuild package.src.rpm" or, optionally, "mock -r DISTRO_CFG rebuild package.src.rpm"
<jdong> does our default pbuidlerrc enable the universe/multiverse components?
 * persia suspects it might be difficult to distinguish bugs in mock from bugs in package build processes with only mock
<minghua> persia: Yeah.  I don't know how many DDs are open to any sponsored packages though.
<mebrown> it automatically downloads the rpm packages to create a chroot, creates it, installs build deps and rebuilds the package.
<persia> minghua: Same for Ubuntu :)
<mebrown> persia, not really.
<jdong> mebrown: that's (1) pbuilder create (2) pbuilder update (3) pbuilder build
<jdong> mebrown: if you put the 3 in a bash script you're all set :)
<persia> mebrown: With nothing to compare behaviour against?
<minghua> persia: I know quite a few Debian sponsors that just quietly sponsors a few certain packages, repeatedly.
<mebrown> persia, builds in mock work exactly the same as builds outside of mock...
<persia> minghua: True.
<persia> mebrown: Ah, so mock is just a wrapper to another build system?
<mebrown> mock does the chroot setup, and then hands off to 'rpmbuild', which is the normal command to build rpms.
<minghua> Debian/Ubuntu have more than one build system, though...
<LaserJock> mebrown: but it's creating a new chroot each time?
<Fujitsu> sbuild and pbuilder should always return the same results, as they use the same basic build system. They don't.
<mebrown> LaserJock, essentially, yes. For reproducability. But, behind the scenes, it caches just about everything
 * persia things lvm snapshots are faster than caches
<mebrown> LaserJock, there are three levels of caching. If you want 100%, always-reproducable builds, you turn off two of those levels, as they could "theoretically" cause build variability. But even with those two levels turned off, it is blazing fast.
<mebrown> On my machine, a tiny-package build is 1min 10secs.
<mebrown> with full chroot setup included in that.
<mebrown> If you eliminate the root cache and ccache to ensure 100% reproducability, that jumps to 2min 30 sec.
<jdong> am I imagining things, but do PPA's build faster than the hardy queue?
<persia> jdong: It depends on current queue size...
<StevenK> jdong: Keep in mind there are a lot less builds queued for PPAs, and 3 builders for each arch.
<persia> Contributors: when sending patches for sponsorship, please ensure that you are subscribed to the bug.
<jdong> StevenK: wow, looks like we got the raw end of the deal
<StevenK> jdong: It was only 1 per arch before UDS.
<jdong> heh
<jdong> well I guess the PPA's have to deal with much more than the 50 or so of us, right? :)
<TheMuso> Yeah
 * TheMuso reckons they could do PPA builds for PPC if they used mol.
<LaserJock> mebrown: so it's similar to pbuilder anyway
<mebrown> LaserJock, yes, exactly. Just a bit easier to get started with (imho, of course)
 * mebrown is busy installing gutsy into KVM to run some tests to try to get pbuilder running.
<StevenK> TheMuso: How? MOL is Mac On Linux
<persia> Doesn't MOL expect a PPC anyway?
<minghua> persia: I believe so.
<StevenK> persia: I thought MOL was PPC-only
 * StevenK needs a fast non-desktop machine that he queue builds on.
<persia> StevenK: I think one can run it on m68k as well, as I wouldn't be surprised to see it work on i386 once there's not so much reliance on Rosetta.
<persia> StevenK: Get one of the little sff boxes, and tuck it somewhere.  Servers are big, and not much faster.
<StevenK> persia: My current desktop is sff.
<persia> StevenK: Right.  You said "non-desktop".  I'm suggesting another one under your desk :)
<StevenK> persia: 20cm x 20cm x 30cm
<StevenK> persia: It involves building another machine, though.
<persia> StevenK: For the non-desktop, you don't need the width: you could probably do something with a multi-core proc in 10 x 15 x 25.
<StevenK> persia: The heatsink for this machine is non-stock Intel is roughly taking up 1/3 of the internal space
<TheMuso> StevenK: Yes, but it can run Linux.
<persia> Yep.  That's the problem with modern processors :)
<TheMuso> StevenK: So, a mol instance running Linux would probably be ok.
<StevenK> persia: I don't see that as a problem, it means space in the machine is effiently used, even though heatsinks aren't very efficent.
<persia> StevenK: Still, hard to get it down to 2 x 5 x 10 for something with sufficient power to be worth it.
<StevenK> persia: Does the Q1 count? :-)
<StevenK> 20 x 10 x 2
<persia> StevenK: Not really.  Firstly, that's larger than I'd like, and secondly, it's not a high-throughput processor (or it could be, but the case warms significantly).  The HW is optimised for bursty use.
<StevenK> persia: Besides, I'd rather not drop the width, because then you lose the 5.25" drive bay
<persia> I found a Core2 non ULV case at 16.5 x 16.5 x 5, but smaller is proving difficult.
<StevenK> You want smaller?
<persia> StevenK: The Q1 is so large that I can't see the point of carrying it: if I need to have a bag, I'd rather a decent sized screen.
<persia> For a little build queue, finding something to hide on the back of the desk seems nice, but size really isn't as important.
<StevenK> persia: My X40 is more than double the size
<persia> StevenK: My Z3200 is half the size
<StevenK> But it's ARM, isn't it?
<persia> StevenK: So?
<StevenK> ARM processors don't require 4 times their weight or more in cooling.
 * persia thinks in terms of use cases for actual devices, rather than architecture
<StevenK> persia: Sure, my problem with modern Intel processors is a cooling one :-)
<persia> Yep.  The choices seem to currently be ULV or having difficulty getting beneath about 1.25 liters
<StevenK> ULV processors still require (for their size, and power draw) massive amounts of cooling.
<persia> If you run i386 ULV at the speeds most ARM run, you also don't need the vast cooling supply, but you can only get so much done.
<StevenK> I've yet see a i386 ULV at only 200MHz :-)
<StevenK> yet to see
<persia> StevenK: Less cooling.  I can find ULV around 7.5L, but ULV doesn't tend to do well with high continuous load.
<StevenK> persia: Yup. Continuous load was not one of the primary concerns. :-)
<persia> StevenK: Err.  I was thinking 600-800, but I'll admit not to seeing anything until 1200 in the wild.
<LucidFox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avant-window-navigator <-- isn't this version already in the archive? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avant-window-navigator
<persia> StevenK: For a buildd?
<StevenK> persia: Yeah. My ARM knowledge is a little out of date.
<StevenK> persia: No, for ULV processors.
<persia> People still ship 100MHz ARM, but it tends to be deep embedded, rather than for full-function devices.  People still ship 100MHz ULV 486 derivatives for that matter :)
<RAOF> LucidFox: Yes it is.  Thanks for reminding me, seb didn't archive it when he uploaded it.
<persia> StevenK: Right.  ULV gets you down to about 0.75L.  I'm still waiting :)
<StevenK> persia: I think you might be waiting a while. :-)
<persia> Err.  Nevermind.  You've listed 400cc above.  I'm mistaken :)
<StevenK> Which is 400cc?
<persia> StevenK: Not too much.  There's a couple pre-announcements out, and one of the new Fujitsus almost fits in my pocket.
<persia> StevenK: Q1 (from your numbers above: 20x10x2 (although I thought it was closer to 20x10x2.3)
<LucidFox> also, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo - is in the queue now: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?start=40
 * persia archives genpo
<StevenK> persia: That was a rough meaursement with a ruler :-)
<persia> StevenK: Still, it's maybe ~500cc.  I apparently can't judge volumes when looking at things in the store (I usually just try to stuff them in my pocket).
<StevenK> persia: Don't the store people not like that? :-)
<StevenK> "Look! He's trying to fit stuff in his pocket! Get him!"
<persia> StevenK: Actually, they tend to sympathise with me, and try to lead me over to the devices that do fit.  pocketable is marketable here.
<persia> On the other hand, I'm not looking for a fancy phone :(
<persia> (or things like the N810 or EM1, which don't have keyboards or USB host)
<StevenK> The N810 does have a keyboard.
 * persia looks again
<persia> That's not a keyboard: that's a keypad.  Worse yet, it's square, and all the keys are lined up.
<persia> EM1 has the same issue (and does two-way silding, so the base can be pulled to the right for PDA-mode)
<persia> EM-One pics at http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/070219-a.html
<StevenK> That doesn't look too bad.
<persia> Only issues I have are that I can't type at a decent speed on the keypad, and that it doesn't have either an HD or a CF slot for a microdrive.
<StevenK> persia: And the N810 "keypad" isn't square
<persia> StevenK: I stand corrected.  My complaint is about the lack of offsets: I expect the 'I' key to be a little left of the 'K' key.
<persia> (N810 isn't in the shops here, so I've never played with the actual hardware)
<StevenK> persia: ... the N810 isn't in any shops at all, if I recall correctly
<persia> http://www.fmworld.net/product/hard/pcpm0709/biblo_loox/lu/info/index.html#anc02 is the smallest current device I can find with proper key offsets, now that tha Zaurus is discontinued.
<persia> StevenK: Where are they sold?
<TheMuso> Yay. More rain here.
<StevenK> persia: I don't think anywhere yet.
<persia> Ah.  I thought it was released.
<TheMuso> Another storm... think I'm off again
<dholbach> good morning
<jdong> good evening :)
<siretart> no, good morning! :)
<Hobbsee> morning dholbach
<dholbach> heya siretart, hey Hobbsee
 * siretart hugs jdong, Hobbsee and dholbach 
<dholbach> HUGS! :)
 * jdong hugs everyone good night :)
 * dholbach hugs y'all :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> heya ajmitch
<\sh> moins
<persia> gnomefreak: Could I convince you to use the new shiny interdiff method of submitting new upstreams to the sponsors queue?  Instructions are available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/Interdiff
<\sh> persia, reading your document, you mean, that we attach a debdiff and an interdiff?
<persia> \sh: A debdiff or an interdiff.  Most things are debdiffs, but when debdiff doesn't work (for new upstreams), I'm happy to receive an interdiff, and don't want to try to track status in both REVU and a bug.
<\sh> persia, ah ok...
<persia> Of course, there's still a gap: there's no good way to request sponsorship of new binary objects in a native package, but that's a harder issue to solve,
<persia> \sh are you planning any new upstreams soon?
<gnomefreak> persia: i will try one real fast i still need to get some sleep but i would like to get them upgrded before new releases are out.
<\sh> persia, tbh, I'm trying to go back to do some merging...but right now, I'm still working on sec fixes
<persia> gnomefreak: Understood.  Are they not new upstream versions then?  In that case, a debdiff should be sufficient.
<persia> \sh: For merges, I'd actually prefer a debdiff against Debian, as that represents the work of the merger, rather than an interdiff which combines the merger's work with the Debian updates.
<gnomefreak> sunbird is new upstream features/security iceape is stritly security upgrade
<\sh> Fujitsu, ping tomcat ... how do we proceed with this package...it really needs some love...
<persia> gnomefreak: In that case, just attach the iceape debdiff to the bug, and someone will likely look at it within a few hours (or maybe a day at most).  For sunbird, you'll have to look at interdiff or wait for REVU.
<\sh> persia, ah you mean with new upstream ubuntu packages with -0ubuntuX
<persia> \sh: Exactly.  debdiffs don't work well for that, but it doesn't require full REVU
 * persia admits this is an edge case being addressed
<gnomefreak> when i wait for revu the packages dont get pushed. i have uploaded > 6 packages to revu and only gwget was pushed the rest were never looked at and ended up missing a few upgrades for it so i did them still no push
<persia> gnomefreak: That's not surprising, and is why I wrote the docs on interdiff.  The sponsors queue is significantly more reactive than the REVU queue, and seems the appropriate way to review work to keep packages in shape (rather than NEW packages).
<persia> gnomefreak: Basically, if you are updating the package for the same upstream version, we want a debdiff.  If there is a new upstream, we want an interdiff.  See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing under "Preparing New Revisions" for a discussion.
<gnomefreak> ok i will try it out see how it works
<persia> gnomefreak: Great.  Thanks, both for trying interdiff, and for all your efforts to keep those packages in shape.
<gnomefreak> np i love packaging ;)
<gnomefreak> persia: interdiff -z -p1 packagename_version-revision.diff.gz packagename_newversion-newrevision.diff.gz check.interdiff doesnt work it gives me the options output
<persia> gnomefreak: Hrm.  It worked for me.  Which package are you trying?
<slangasek> did you mean to use > check.interdiff?
<gnomefreak> lightning-sunbird
<slytherin> Can anyone tell me how can I find bugs where small amount of work is needed?
<\sh> well, the only problem with security fixes is, that you have to maintain at least 4 chroots, and if you help debian to fix stable security, you need at least 2 more
<gnomefreak> no because its not on there
<persia> gnomefreak: OK.  I'll try here, and see if I can replicate the issue.
<gnomefreak> i will try that
<\sh> slytherin, try searching on launchpad for bugs with the bitsize (sp) tag
<gnomefreak> persia: wiki doesnt have the > that is needed
<slangasek> "bitesize"
<persia> gnomefreak: Thanks.  I'll chase why.
<persia> gnomefreak: Typo.  Thanks for finding it.
<slytherin> \sh: I have fixed a small problem previously in tagtool. The problem is that it is recommended that we fix the problems for hardy. also most of the times the developers recommend that we forward bugs to debian. I am not able to understand how I can fix bugs in gutsy.
<gnomefreak> persia: your welcome, during interdiff -z oldversionofpacakge.diff.gz newversion.diff.gz | gzip --best -c - > oldversion_newversion.interdiff?
<persia> slytherin: First, a bug gets fixed in hardy.  Then, if it is considered critical, the fix is backported to Gutsy.  See the Stable Release Updates documentation for criteria.
<gnomefreak> example lightning-sunbird_0.5_0.7.interdiff would be last line (file that i name)
<persia> !sru
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<persia> gnomefreak: That works.  The filename doesn't really matter, although I prefer ones that are semantically meaningful when I later grep my sponsoring archive.
<gnomefreak> meaning that having both versions in it?
<gnomefreak> would be best?
<persia> gnomefreak: That tends to be best, but can be wordy.  Also, naming it to match the candidate version-revision works.  Use whatever is most meaningful for your in your patch archive (you do keep a patch archive, right?)
<gnomefreak> define patch archive
<\sh> slangasek, right bitesize
<persia> gnomefreak: A place where you keep your patches for later reference when someone asks you what you did for a given change.
<gnomefreak> yeah on my branch
<slytherin> persia: ok. will keep that in mind
<persia> gnomefreak: Ah, if you're doing all this in VCS, the nomenclature doesn't matter for you.  My personal preference is for something like lightning_sunbird_05-0ubuntu4_07.interdiff, but anything works
<gnomefreak> persia: i have a ~/downloads/patches but it has few in it since i havent had to work with much lately
<persia> Err. lightning-sunbird_05-0ubuntu4_07.interdiff
<gnomefreak> persia: uploading interdiff, i didnt get that into it but i did use packagename_0.5-0.7.interdiff
<gnomefreak> its uploaded to bug report
<persia> gnomefreak: That works too :)  I'll grab it.
<gnomefreak> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightning-sunbird/+bug/164278  this one
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164278 in lightning-sunbird "Please sponsor this package for Hardy" [Undecided,New]
<gnomefreak> ill work on debdiff for iceape
<pwnguin> man, how did i miss the amoeba package?
<gnomefreak> persia: wait on sunbird please
<gnomefreak> persia: yeah dont do it i screwed up it should be nobinonly (as it is on revu :(
<persia> gnomefreak: I'm sending for rework anyway: 1) no mention of rework of the autoconf patch, 2) no watch file or get-orig-source
<gnomefreak> yeah i gave it to you from wrong build dir
<persia> That makes sense :)
<gnomefreak> did the interdiff work right atleast?
<persia> gnomefreak: Sure.  I have a clean looking lightning-sunbird_0.7-0ubuntu1.diff.gz in my working directory.
<gnomefreak> k
<gnomefreak> debdiff on iceape is taking forever
<persia> gnomefreak: lots of changes?
<gnomefreak> yep just upstream changes
<persia> gnomefreak: upstream patches to the same version number?  I guess I'm confused about how mozilla packaging works.
<gnomefreak> iceape 1.1.5 now is 1.1.6 they were all security releases
<gnomefreak> and will be until 2.x
<gnomefreak> debdiff iceape_1.1.5-1ubuntu0.7.10.dsc iceape_1.1.6-1ubuntu0.7.10.dsc > iceape_1.1.6-1ubuntu0.7.10.debdiff
<persia> gnomefreak: Well, if you're moving from 1.1.5 to 1.1.6, I'd prefer an interdiff with a new tarball.
<gnomefreak> that is right command right?
<gnomefreak> ok i can do that
<persia> No.  debdiff is for packaging changes for the same upstream, or for merges from debian.  You want an interdiff in this case (much smaller)
<persia> Alternately, I'd be happy with the output of `debdiff iceape_1.1.6-1.dsc iceape_1.1.6-1ubuntu0.7.10.dsc > iceape_1.1.6-1ubuntu0.7.10.debdiff`
<persia> gnomefreak: Also, is this for hardy, or an SRU target?
<gnomefreak> persia: iceape is for security release gutsy-security and sunbird is for hardy
<persia> gnomefreak: OK.  Got it now.
<gnomefreak> iceapes interdiff is attaching
<gnomefreak> bug 164278 and i ill do sunbird with nobinonly in a minute
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164278 in lightning-sunbird "Please sponsor this package for Hardy" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164278
<\sh> gnomefreak, please subscribe ubuntu security team for the sec update
<gnomefreak> crap
<persia> \sh: even for universe?
<\sh> persia, even for universe...kees and jdstrand are the only people who can upload to -security pocket
<persia> Ah!  I understand.  Thanks.
<\sh> persia, but only for real security fixes...not bug fixing for a broken app
<gnomefreak> ok iceape has security team and interdiff is there
<\sh> gnomefreak, did you add the CVEs?
<\sh> gnomefreak, and is iceape in feisty as well vulnerable? (when it's in feisty ;))
<gnomefreak> \sh: cant for iceape there arnt any just mozilla bug fixes, i looked for 2 days
<gnomefreak> \sh: iceape only in gutsy and hardy for now hardy will be getting the official branding
<\sh> gnomefreak, hmm...bug no? :)
<gnomefreak> i listed them
<\sh> gnomefreak, no lp bug no ;)
<persia> \sh bug #164276
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164276 in iceape "Please sponsor iceape for gutsy-secuity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164276
<\sh> gnomefreak, ah...could you do the following and follow security update policy?
<Ubulette> please, don't do hardy, just gutsy for iceape
<\sh> gnomefreak, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<persia> gnomefreak: I've archived the REVU uploads.  They are still available by URL, and will get unarchived if commented or reuploaded, but I think you'll get a faster response with the interdiffs in the bugs.
<persia> Ubulette: Why wouldn't we want to also close bugs in hardy?
<gnomefreak> Ubulette: thats all i did was gutsy
<Ubulette> gnomefreak, i know you know :)
<gnomefreak> persia: seamonkey will be in hardy
<\sh> gnomefreak, are those fixes cherry picked? no bug fixes which are not fixing those CVEs?
<gnomefreak> Ubulette: they cant do anything in hardy since the changelog has gutsy-security
<persia> gnomefreak: Ah.  That makes sense, but I'd still like to close security bugs until the package removal is approved.
<gnomefreak> \sh: mainly the fixes were for 1.1.5 they were adding more as i understand it
<gnomefreak> persia: we have it ready afaik Ubulette if its ready follow instuctions above to get it pushed in asap than i will file a bug to remove iceape from hardy
<\sh> gnomefreak, well, you mentioned only CVE bug fixes...(please change the changelog according to SecurityUpdateProcedure)....
<gnomefreak> \sh: what package are you looking at?
<gnomefreak> i dont have changelogs in my head atm
<\sh> gnomefreak, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iceape/+bug/164276
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164276 in iceape "Please sponsor iceape for gutsy-secuity" [Undecided,New]
<Ubulette> seamonkey 1.1.6 is ready for review for hardy for a while too, but changes are huuuuge so I still need to hear from my reviewer
<persia> Ubulette: You might upload to REVU for comments :)
<gnomefreak> \sh: * Fixes Mozilla bugs 39412, 400406, 400421, 400735, 400744, 400939, 400976  are the bugs that were fixed, no cves for these fixes anywhere on mozilla
<ubotu> Mozilla bug 39412 in General "Relative URLs under file:// are broken" [Normal,Verified: worksforme] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39412
<ubotu> Mozilla bug 400406 in Layout "Layout badly broken in 2.0.0.8, CSS issue with floats or negative margins or display property..." [Major,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400406
<ubotu> Mozilla bug 400421 in Layout "Removing AREA element makes the image disappear" [Major,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400421
<ubotu> Mozilla bug 400735 in XBL "New startup crash [@ nsXBLBinding::AllowScripts]" [Critical,Verified: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400735
<ubotu> Mozilla bug 400744 in General "Pure virtual function call and crash invoking context menu" [Critical,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400744
<\sh> gnomefreak, reading the interdiff it mentions:
<\sh> --- iceape-1.1.5/debian/changelog
<\sh> +++ iceape-1.1.5.orig/debian/changelog
<\sh> @@ -1,497 +0,0 @@
<\sh> -iceape (1.1.5-1ubuntu0.7.10) gutsy-security; urgency=low
<\sh> -
<\sh> -  * Upstream security release
<\sh> -  * Fixes CVE-2007-4841, 2007-5338, 2007-5337, 2007-5334, 2007-3511,
<ubotu> Mozilla Firefox before 2.0.0.8, Thunderbird before 2.0.0.8, and SeaMonkey before 1.1.5 allows remote attackers to execute arbitrary commands via a (1) mailto, (2) nntp, (3) news, or (4) snews URI with invalid "%" encoding, related to improper file type handling on Windows XP with Internet Explorer 7 installed, a variant of CVE-2007-3845. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-4841)
<\sh> -    2007-2894, 2007-2292, 2007-1095, 2007-5339, 2007-5340, 2007-4965
<\sh> -  * debian/patches/99_configure.dpatch: Updated for new release
<\sh> -
<gnomefreak> \sh: and your point?
<gnomefreak> i know what it says im looking at it
<\sh> gnomefreak, those are security fixes, please backport them to actual gutsy release...
<gnomefreak> \sh: ?? iceape is only going into gutsy
<gnomefreak> no need for backport since it is security release
<\sh> gnomefreak, yes...but iceape is already in gutsy, so for CVE fixes, we backport patches for those security issues
<\sh> gnomefreak, there is no "new version release for security".
<gnomefreak> \sh: afaik for CVE/security releases go to gutsy-security not backport
<\sh> gnomefreak, you stay with the version in the archive...and patch the source...new releases have to go via -backports, bug fixes, which are not fixing security relevant stuff are going to -proposed, and then -updates
<gnomefreak> \sh: did you read the bugs?
<\sh> gnomefreak, yepp...
<gnomefreak> did you read release notes?
<persia> \sh: There are sometimes exceptions, and mozilla apps tend to get approved.
<\sh> persia, well, but those fixes are easy to apply to the actual version in gutsy...there is no need for a new upstream release
<persia> \sh: Yes, I'd agree.  There's something odd there, and I haven't sorted what.
<gnomefreak> persia: please check new interdiff on bug 164278 and you might want to explain wha tyou need me to do after since i didnt do nobinonly the first one. big differences in changelog and friends as for the autoconf2.13 i had to run it to update for new release
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164278 in lightning-sunbird "Please sponsor this package for Hardy" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164278
<gnomefreak> \sh: i follow security releases per mozilla and the less hacking i have to do the better it is (if youve ever played with mozilla code you will know why its easier this way
 * gnomefreak still hasnt gone to sleep, going for smoke
<\sh> gnomefreak, yes I know how hard it is to play with mozilla....:) we have more candidates like this in our archives...back to dapper :)
<\sh> but regarding debians version changelog for 1.1.5-1
<\sh>  iceape  (1.1.5-1) unstable; urgency=low
<\sh>    * New security/stability upstream release.
<\sh>    * Fixes mfsa-2007-29 to mfsa-2007-36, also known as CVE-2007-1095,
<\sh>      CVE-2007-2292, CVE-2006-2894, CVE-2007-3511, CVE-2007-4841,
<\sh>      CVE-2007-5334, CVE-2007-5337, CVE-2007-5338, CVE-2007-5339,
<persia> gnomefreak: That looks much better.  Thanks.  Unfortunately, I'm not seeing debian/remove.binonly.sh in the updated diff, and still want a watch file or get-orig-source rule.
<\sh>      CVE-2007-5340.
<\sh>    * debian/remove.nonfree: Remove some more object files.
<\sh>    * debian/patches/99_configure.dpatch: Updated.
<\sh>    * debian/rules: Force the use of -fvisibility=hidden instead of system
<\sh>      wrappers to avoid FTBFS with gcc 4.2. Closes: #377178.
<\sh>    * debian/patches/65_composer_charset.dpatch: Avoid save page dialog when
<\sh>      closing unmodified blank page due to previous patch. Stolen from
<\sh>      bz#400372.
<\sh>  -- Mike Hommey <mh@glandium.org>  Sat, 03 Nov 2007 14:51:40 +0100
<persia> !pastebin | \sh
<huats> morning everyone
<ubotu> Mozilla Firefox before 2.0.0.8 and SeaMonkey before 1.1.5 do not properly implement JavaScript onUnload handlers, which allows remote attackers to run certain JavaScript code and access the location DOM hierarchy in the context of the next web site that is visited by a client. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-1095)
<ubotu> CRLF injection vulnerability in the Digest Authentication support for Mozilla Firefox before 2.0.0.8 and SeaMonkey before 1.1.5 allows remote attackers to conduct HTTP request splitting attacks via LF (%0a) bytes in the username attribute. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-2292)
<ubotu> Mozilla Firefox 1.5.0.4, 2.0.x before 2.0.0.8, Mozilla Suite 1.7.13, Mozilla SeaMonkey 1.0.2 and other versions before 1.1.5, and Netscape 8.1 and earlier allow user-assisted remote attackers to read arbitrary files by tricking a user into typing the characters of the target filename in a text box and using the OnKeyDown, OnKeyPress, and OnKeyUp Javascript keystroke events to change the focus and cause those characters to be inserted into a file upload
<persia> \sh: Especially please use a pastebin when listing bug numbers and CVEs!
<\sh> persia, sorry...:)
 * persia misses ubotu
<gnomefreak> persia: in rules file you can make the orig tarball still sincei havent removed it and i dont know why the script didnt show up i did it as i was told to do it
<persia> gnomefreak: Odd.  I wonder why it didn't work for me: trying again...
<gnomefreak> i didnt leave the script in the package as i was told to run it in package using path to where it is
<gnomefreak> unpack tarball and ./ /home/gnomefreak/remove.script in unpacked upstream tarball
<\sh> persia, I checked last security upload from debian for etch...even they are backporting the CVE fixes to their source version (which is 1.0.11
<gnomefreak> \sh: we dont merge it from debian
<gnomefreak> matter of fact we take very little help from debian
<gnomefreak> normally we push to debian since we are first to have it working
<\sh> gnomefreak, no question, but I would like to see our version just sec fixed, and not introducing new upstream versions in stable releases...
<\sh> gnomefreak, this is a no go, e.g. for hardy
<gnomefreak> \sh: iceape isnt going into hardy
<warp10> Hi all!
<gnomefreak> and iceape firefox thunderbird are all security releases firefox 2.0.0.scrrelease# iceape 1.1.scrrelease#
<TheMuso> Gotta love two power outag in the sme afternoon/evenin.
<gnomefreak> \sh: 2.0 will be new upstream release since they wont have 1.2.x series
<elkbuntu> persia, he takes forever to sync
<gnomefreak> this is how mozilla defines them
<persia> elkbuntu: -ENOCONTEXT
<elkbuntu> persia, teh bot
<persia> elkbuntu: Ah.  Thanks for looking at it.
<elkbuntu> persia, i figured you'd have seen the join 2 lines up :Ã
<persia> elkbuntu: I saw that, just didn't link "he" to the bot, nor you to the wrangler restoring it.
<gnomefreak> \sh: yes i agree in the sense maybe it should be in -proposed but since mozilla defines it as security release thats why i have target gutsy-security
<elkbuntu> persia, no prob
<persia> gnomefreak: Based on http://paste.ubuntu.com/2124/, I'm not sure how to get upstream (and still don't see the mentioned debian/remove.binonly.sh
<gnomefreak> persia: you run script in source dir you dont put the script in package
<gnomefreak> persia: what about the rules file
<gnomefreak> update-orig: $(CURDIR)/../$(DEBIAN_MOZ_APPLICATION)_$(DEBIAN_MOZ_SOURCE_VERSION).orig.tar.gz
<gnomefreak> that is your orig tarball thing in rules
<persia> gnomefreak: OK.  Thanks.  update-orig: works (although I'm fairly sure that Debian policy recommends "get-orig-source" as the rule name).
<gnomefreak> since i was told by asac to run the script in tarball using poath to script as he did with ff tb
<gnomefreak> persia: thats been there since iceape was started in ubuntu and iirc that is how debian does it as well
<gnomefreak> seeing as i build our sunbird and me or asac will do iceowl for debian
<persia> gnomefreak: Now I get "make: *** No rule to make target `sunbird-0.7-source.tar.bz2', needed by `/home/persia/src/scratch/sponsor/lightning-sunbird-0.7+nobinonly/../lightning-sunbird_0.7+nobinonly.orig.tar.gz'.  Stop."
<\sh> gnomefreak, yes, but I tbh I don't really care about mozilla...we have to take care about the security, and we can cherry pick the fixes from mozilla upstream and add them to the dpatch system for the latest version in gutsy easily
<\sh> gnomefreak, so we have no new version introduced, but fixed all vulnerabilities
<\sh> gnomefreak, I have a similiar problem with wireshark/ethereal
<persia> gnomefreak: Also, I don't really care how Debian does it, I more care about having a standard interface to make it easy for me to sponsor :)
<\sh> gnomefreak, in dapper we have the last release of ethereal, and this version can't be security fixed in a proper way, without introducing the next release of wireshark, which introduces more problems then ever...
<gnomefreak> than i guess i will wait for asac to et back since he is the one that made rules file and told me how to run script and told me to push iceape as security since he is our core-dev maintainer of moz packages in ubuntu
<gnomefreak> notice only change made was control file running script in source tarball and changelog oh and updated autoconf patch using autoconf2.13
<persia> gnomefreak: That might work.  We'd like to help, but I'm just not having any luck getting the new upstream (even with the update-orig rule), and \sh is sharing his troubles in trying to do similar things, hoping to be able to get one of the security team to get the upload earlier.
<\sh> gnomefreak, but you can ask jdstrand or keescook about this...could be that they have a different opinion then I have regarding this special case
<gnomefreak> persia: it has always worked for me but we use mozclient for most part to make our orig.tar.gz so i dont use the rules way anymore as its easier the other ways
 * gnomefreak can care less wher eit goes i just followed what asac had said to do
<persia> gnomefreak: If the other ways were documented for automation, I'd be happy to use it.  Why not have the mozclient call in debian/rules /
<persia> s/\/\?/
<persia> Err.. s/\//\?/
<gnomefreak> since he is paid dev i trust what he says is fine
 * persia continues to claim that it doesn't matter whether one gets paid
<\sh> persia, +1 :)
<gnomefreak> it doesnt matter but since he is paid i tend to follow instructions from him since he is one taking blame unless i screw something up
<gnomefreak> and i didnt
<Ubulette> persia, i'm the author of mozclient, it's usable, useful and used by our team, yet, it's not packaged as a deb. my plan is to make a cdbs-like extension
<persia> Ubulette: Ah.  That's why I can't use it: it's not packaged :)  Please hurry :)
<gnomefreak> so im not seeing a problem, iceapes rules for orig should work fine i havent used it in 5 months or so but worked last i used it
<Ubulette> you can use it, just bzr pull it
<gnomefreak> persia: use the branch
<persia> gnomefreak: I get "make: *** No rule to make target `sunbird-0.7-source.tar.bz2', needed by `/home/persia/src/scratch/sponsor/lightning-sunbird-0.7+nobinonly/../lightning-sunbird_0.7+nobinonly.orig.tar.gz'.  Stop.
<persia> "
<gnomefreak> no building needed
<gnomefreak> persia: i wouldnt know i dont use it for sunbird i used it for iceape
<persia> gnomefreak: I refuse to work around buggy package code.  Maybe someone else will upload, but not being able to use the published interface blocks me.  Is it that hard to fix?
<Ubulette> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tarballs/lightning-sunbird_0.7.orig.tar.gz
 * persia is suspicious of random unofficial tarballs
<Ubulette> then don't take it
<Ubulette> i don't mind
<persia> Ubulette: It's that I sponsor lots of uploads every day.  I have a fairly rigid set of rules in place so that I can't easily make a mistake in doing so.  Someone who knows anything at all about the package, or uses it might be in a different position when reviewing.
<persia> gnomefreak: I'll resubscribe the sponsors queue.  The interdiff looks great: I'm just having trouble.
 * TheMuso has not seen the sponsors queue so small in ages! Well done all to those who have helped.
<gnomefreak> persia: whats wrong with tarball on revu
<TheMuso> /c/c
<gnomefreak> that is the one used to build it so its offifical
<gnomefreak> official
<persia> gnomefreak: Same issue as with Ubulette's.  I never upload REVU tarballs, even when the second advocate on REVU.
<gnomefreak> persia: why they are the ones used to build package
<persia> gnomefreak: I don't use them to build packages.
<TheMuso> persia: Why don't you upload advocated packages from revu?
<gnomefreak> oh and sunbird wont beable to use orig in rules since mozilla has it set up weird since its still "testing"
<persia> TheMuso: I do upload, just with upstream tarballs.
<TheMuso> persia: Right.
<persia> (or scripted-mangled tarballs verified from upstream)
<gnomefreak> orig == upstreams
<gnomefreak> most of our apps have enbedded tarballs
<Ubulette> http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/calendar/lightning/releases/0.7/source/lightning-sunbird-0.7-source.tar.bz2
<persia> gnomefreak: I believe you, I just am extra-paranoid about these things, in part because of the volume I have.  As I said, I think the interdiff is good, and have resubscribed the sponsors team with a note that someone more familiar with mozilla packaging would do well to upload.
<persia> Ubulette: Thanks.
<gnomefreak> that makes exactly 3 people 1 motu 1 core and Ubulette that are familiar with moz apps that im aware of and the 2 that can push are gone
<persia> gnomefreak: Right.  That's why I'm encouraging you to change things to follow standard interfaces: it makes it not matter if we're familiar with the packaging.
 * gnomefreak ponders sleeping for an hour 
<persia> Ubulette: I'm still getting an error from update-orig: with that tarball in the parent directory.  Is there something else I have to do?
<\sh> net-snmp for edgy is building, dapper still to go....
<Ubulette> persia, i don't remember the code in rules but a rename should be enough
<persia> Just `mv lightning-sunbird-0.7-source.tar.bz2 sunbird-0.7-source.tar.bz2`?
<Ubulette> maybe even sunbird_0.7-source.tar.bz2
<\sh> hi s1024kb
<persia> Ubulette: debian/rules is looking for sunbird-0.7-source.tar.bz2, as far as I can see.  Is there another step involved, or are the differences between _ and - being ignored?
<s1024kb> \sh: hi
<s1024kb> \sh: had added you in jabber
<\sh> s1024kb, yeah...just approved the request :)
<gnomefreak> persia: should be lightning-sunbird_0.7
<persia> gnomefreak: the upstream tarfile?
<gnomefreak> persia: what i normally do there is once i grab it ill change the - to a _
<persia> gnomefreak: Maybe I've received the wrong upstream file then.  I have lightning-sunbird-0.7-source.tar.bz2
<gnomefreak> let me look hold on
<persia> gnomefreak: Thank you.
<gnomefreak> lightning-sunbird-0.7-source.tar.bz2
<gnomefreak> that is upstream tarball
<persia> OK.  I have the right upstream then.  Now, update-orig is looking for sunbird-0.7-source.tar.bz2 : should I be running a different rule?
<gnomefreak> source package isnt called sunbird
<persia> gnomefreak: Right.  I just don't understand how to get the right orig.tar.gz.  Anyway, I've hit a time wall for now: if you post instructions here or to the bug, I'll take another look when I'm free again.
<gnomefreak> persia: the orig.tar.gz is on revu
<gnomefreak> persia: we never used update-orig in sunbird but since we used same rules file for ff thats why its there
<gnomefreak> persia: we havent deemed it needed and since 0.5 is in repos and you can see the difference from 0.5 and 0.7 this shouldnt be an issue or it would have been given back when first introduced package
<gnomefreak> if it was new to ubuntu i could understand
<\sh> ok..net-snmp dapper patched, building..
<warp10> When I produce a debdiff (for example, for a merge), if I need to correct, say, a typo, can I modify the debdiff or do I need to modify the source tree, rebuild, and re-debdiff?
<soren> warp10: If you don't add or remove any lines but just change existing ones, editing the debdiff should be safe. You should check that it still applies cleanly, though.
<soren> warp10: Don't tell anyone I said that, though.
<warp10> soren: thanks... my lips are sealed.
<\sh> anyone wants to cve fix horde3 ? :)
<slytherin> TheMuso: ping
<TheMuso> slytherin: Hi there.
<slytherin> TheMuso: Regarding the call for MOTU PPC. I am interested. I have been learning packaging recently and now have an old iBook G4 now (got from my brother). :-)
<slytherin> TheMuso: I have already requested membership for the team you mentioned but not yet approved.
<proppy> is there a PPC port on the way ?
<StevenK> Ubuntu has had a PPC port since Warty
<TheMuso> slytherin: Great.
<TheMuso> Unfortunately I have no admin powers on that team, so can't do anything unfortunately.
<TheMuso> proppy: All I'm doing is gathering people interested in helping maintain the ppc port, as canonical have dropped official support for it.
<persia> gnomefreak: Don't worry too much.  I'm not the only sponsor, but likely one of the most picky.  Just because I can't figure out how to generate the file doesn't mean someone else won't upload it.  I suspect you've still a better chance than with an REVU entry.
<proppy> TheMuso: nice
<slytherin> TheMuso: the ubuntu-ppc team has same purpose right?
<TheMuso> slytherin: Well actually, it seems that the team is just for show. Nothing is really done with it so far as I can tell.
<persia> dholbach: Umm..  A merging recipe is tricky, as too much depends on the merge process.  For something well understood, frequently just applying the debdiff from patches.ubuntu.com to the new Debian revision and editing the changelog is sufficient, but the key is understanding it.  Are you sure you want a recipe? (I have logs)
<dholbach> persia: I'm sure there are straight-forward merges whose main steps are shared across a big range of different types of merges
<persia> dholbach: Sure, there are plenty of merges that could be handled by a script, which is part of what MoM and DaD try to do.  The key is that every merge should be done with deep research and understanding of the nature of the changes: I'm really not sure that can be put in a recipe.
<persia> To put it another way, I've found myself cleaning up after too many merges to want to encourage people to do them with less research.
<persia> This is especially prevalent when there's a mistake in the Debian changelog, or something not updated perfectly in the Ubuntu changelog.
 * Hobbsee thinsk it's particularly good when people file a bug, subscribe the sponsors, and list the DAD url in it, as the only piece of information.
<\sh> persia, I think the missing part for merges is, that there is no real explanation of the change the merger did, so that there is always the question: why he/she did this..so we have always ask, if it's not a trivial change
<dholbach> hrm, I just feel that the Merging doc on UbuntuDevelopment is a bit too general to help people with doing merges and the examples we have on other merges wiki pages are out of date
<persia> dholbach: I'll agree it's general, but I don't think merging is a good way for new people to help: they should be fixing bugs or packaging new stuff.  Merging is hard, and has too many special cases.
<dholbach> OK
<dholbach> persia: I'll follow up on my mail
<persia> \sh: If it's not well expressed in the changelog, that's bad practice on the part of the merger.  With properly written changelogs, we should never encounter that.
<\sh> .oO(and how should I do a session on security fixing)
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.  I just wanted to discuss with you before replying negatively on the ML :)
<proppy> is g++ -shared ../libjuce.a -o libjuce.so, the correct way to generate a shared library from a static file ?
<proppy> (it is packaging related, because the upstream makefile only generate a static .a, and I'm trying to package it at http://juce.aminche.com/)
<fernando> moin all
<proppy> I guess I've to generate it from the .o, since the file generated by g++ -shared ../libjuce.a -o libjuce.so really doesn't look like a shared library when passed to nm
<proppy> hi fernando
<slytherin> TheMuso: I will make a comment on your post just for the record
<slytherin> dholbach: are you too busy to check mails on bluetooth list?
<slytherin> dholbach: I mean ubuntu-bluetooh
<dholbach> slytherin: I'm not an admin anymore - the mobile team takes care of bluetooth nowadays
<norsetto> dholbach: Is this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging not helpful? It should contains everything a newcomer needs to know about merging
<dholbach> norsetto: I'll merge it into UbuntuDevelopment/Merging too
<norsetto> dholbach: note that it was revised recently to make sure it is up to date and to bring it more in line to the needs of new contributors
<dholbach> norsetto: that's great
<dholbach> norsetto: yeah, it looks very good
<warp10> norsetto, dholbach: let me say that MOTU/Merging is *really* useful and plain for a new contributor, as I'm experiencing
<norsetto> warp10: I'm glad to hear that :-)
<warp10> norsetto: :)
<persia> norsetto: LASH is good, LASH is grand, everyone should always use LASH :)
<StevenK> slytherin: fetching data for ubuntu-bluetooth@lists.ubuntu.com ... nothing in queue
 * persia steals a bug
<norsetto> persia: I would check with debian first, perhaps they have good reasons to not enable it (looks like a mistake though)
<slytherin> StevenK: I just wanted to make sure that my mail with subject 'agenda for hardy' was sent.
<persia> norsetto: The main reason is that the debian-multimedia team is swamped, and tend to test integration issues in 64studio before rolling into Debian.
<norsetto> persia: there seems also to be a new lash issue upstream which fix some bugs, can you check if debian has it already?
<dholbach> slytherin: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bluetooth
<persia> norsetto: Umm, do you have a pointer to anything?
<persia> (I'm happy to check Debian, etc., it's just I have no idea what "issue" is being discussed)
<norsetto> persia: its in the bug report, if I remember it correctly was issued around 10 days ago
<slytherin> dholbach: It is there. I will wait for replies. :-)
<persia> norsetto: 0.5.4.  Right.  Sure.  I'll look for a sync / merge / upgrade for that: fixing memory leaks is good.  Thanks for pointing it out.
<norsetto> warp10: thanks for testing tagtool, appreciate it!
<warp10> norsetto: :) I'm waiting for mono-addins build too, looks like it's still in queue
<StevenK> TheMuso: Ping
<TheMuso> StevenK: yes?
<\sh> bah...I hate dbs
<\sh> didn't we have a MONO team?
<dholbach> \sh: slomo, ajmitch, bhale are the MONO team :)
<norsetto> dholbach: looks like a TRIO team to me ....
<\sh> slomo, wanna fix CVE-2007-5197? :)
<ubotu> Buffer overflow in the Mono.Math.BigInteger class in Mono 1.2.5.1 and earlier allows context-dependent attackers to execute arbitrary code via unspecified vectors related to Reduce in Montgomery-based Pow methods. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-5197)
<Amaranth> Wow
<Amaranth> That's quite a description
<\sh> Amaranth, hehe
<\sh> Amaranth, but in the end, it's just a oneline
<\sh> r
<norsetto> dholbach, persia: from the email on motu-mentors looks like we have at least 2 APAC available for a Q&A session
<dholbach> norsetto: rock and roll! :)
<persia> norsetto: Two who want one and would find 13:00 UTC inconvenient?
<norsetto> persia: yes, perhaps its a good idea to send and email to the lists to ask if there are more people interested in an "asian" session
<Hobbsee> norsetto: ... asia-pac != asian.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: yes, but about same time. They pop up around 00:00 UTC saying good morning
<persia> norsetto: Depending on the time of day, I suspect it might be nice to hit the Americas as well.  I'm just not sure if there's enough benefit to something like 04:00 UTC to hold it, or whether it would be better to try something closer to 0:00 UTC, which is early on this side, but perhaps useful in the Americas
<norsetto> persia: easy does it, do both ;-)
<persia> norsetto: Err.  Neither time is very convenient for me, but I'm mostly interested in avoiding the crickets... syndrome.
 * norsetto check the timezones
<\sh> slomo, mono fixes are done ;) just need to testbuild
 * norsetto --> lunch
 * persia severely dislikes tarball-in-tarball packaging
<Fujitsu> persia: It seems to be a fairly silly idea.
<persia> Fujitsu: The tradional proponents argue that it correctly enforces separation of concerns, far better than just pretending to keep everything in debian/  I can see the point, but find actually digging to the source frustrating.
<persia> Fujitsu: Further, it's just convenience.  Nothing is actually distributed as tarball-in-tarball, it only looks that way.
 * persia stops defending the opinion previously declared to be disliked, realising that holding such a position is silly and counterproductive
<dholbach> talk to pitti about it :)
<dholbach> not sure he still does it
<persia> Right.  I lose.  LASH can be upgraded by someone else, and needs to have the python bindings enabled anyway.
<joejaxx> jdong: :D congrats
<persia> Riddell: regarding bug #158252: How would you suggest adjusting for the "minimal changes"?  Should debian/rules be hacked to not copy the autotools hints in clean: ?  Separately, is this class of checking done for packages that copy autotools hints in configure: ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158252 in dspam "dspam won't start:  /var/run/dspam missing in tmpfs" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158252
<Riddell> persia: add patch, edit changelog, debuild -S
<persia> Riddell: That's what I did: debian/rules clean: copies config.sub & config.guess.  The upload was rejected for changing those.  I'm curious why.
<Riddell> it does?  autotools are crazy
<persia> I'm especially curious as I suspect you discovered this by running debdiff, and would not have noticed if the copy happened in configure;, which is becoming ever more common.
<Riddell> that's the right place to do it, clean: shouldn't make things less clean
<persia> Riddell: I'll agree autotools are crazy :)
<Riddell> persia: well, if it's unavoidable, upload again and I'll let it through
<persia> dh_make recommends clean: for some reason.
<persia> Riddell: Well, I could patch it to configure: as well, if you'd prefer to read that.
<Riddell> persia: no, that would be an even less minimal SRU :)
<persia> Riddell: :)
<mok0> I usually remove the statement from rules that copies config.sub & config.guess. Make no sense
<mok0> We really, really, need a replacement for dh_make
<persia> Riddell: Uploaded.  Short & pretty debdiff available from http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10284133/dspam_3.6.8-5ubuntu1.1.dsc.diff
<persia> mok0: I don't suppose you'd like to submit a patch for dh-make that put it in configure: rather than in clean: ?
<mok0> persia: I don't see why you'd want it at all...
<persia> mok0: Otherwise you need to do it manually all the time in order to get the new hints for new architectures or changes in architectures.
<persia> Doing it manually is prone to mistake, and means carrying the patch in the diff.gz (which also happens with clean:, but see the earlier comment about clean: making things less clean)
<mok0> persia: I'll think about it
 * minghua always copy config.{sub,guess} in config.status target.
 * persia cheers minghua for being sane
<minghua> Err... I hope that's not something really worth cheering about.
<Riddell> persia: accepted, sorry for the hassle
<persia> minghua: In context, it is.  A very large number of packages do it in clean, which makes debdiffs hard to read.
<minghua> Yeah, blame dh_make.
<persia> Riddell: No worries.  I kick those out of the sponsors queue if the person doesn't run filterdiff.  It's just harder when you're looking at actual packages :)
<persia> minghua: I do.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> bddebian: I wanted to ask you about the craft package.  I recently uploaded a trival fix, and noticed it seemed to be completely useless.  There's even a bug reporting that it isn't any fun.  Do you know if there's a good current replacement that could be used for justification of removal?
<bddebian> Heya persia.  I don't think I'm familiar with craft, what is it?
<persia> bddebian: Warcraft 2-like multi-player real-time strategy game
<bddebian> Ahh
<bddebian> Well antargis might be if I could figure out the status of the damn thing :)
<siretart> jdong:  FYI: Waiting for approval: vdr-plugin-xineliboutput 1.0.0~rc2-3ubuntu1~gutsy1 (source)
<persia> OK.  I'll wait for that, and then push the removal.  I wonder if it's acceptable to file an ITO followed by an RoM comment to purge things...
<bddebian> persia: heh
<bddebian> Well that's pretty much what I'm going to end up  doing with quake2 I think
<bddebian> persia: Where's the "not any fun" bug? :)
<persia> bddebian: Debian bug #355230, last comment
<ubotu> Debian bug 355230 in wnpp "RFA: craft -- Warcraft 2-like multi-player real-time strategy game" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/355230
 * bddebian thinks we have a LOT of games that aren't any "fun" :-)
<persia> I found that when I was looking to push back the patch, and decided it wasn't worth pushing back.
<persia> Note that Ubuntu doesn't have freecraft, so that comment doesn't apply.
<bddebian> Oh shite, yeah, I forgot about freecraft
<bddebian> Dang freecraft isn't a games team package either
<persia> bddebian: Blender asked upstream to stop: the devs work on boswars now.  Please don't try to revive it.
<bddebian> What freecraft or craft? Or both? :)
<bddebian> Bos Wars is fairly cool actually :-)
<persia> bddebian: freecraft.  I don't think craft ever became popular enough for Blender to care.
 * persia wants boswars, but doesn't have a deb
<bddebian> Hmm, I'm trying to remember what the hold-up on boswars was now...
<persia> I thought you were waiting for a RSN new upstream release
<bddebian> We have 2.4.1 packaged up
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Things just move sooo damn slow in that team :_(
<bddebian> Heya geser
<persia> bddebian: is it non-free or contrib maybe?
<persia> Ah.  Needs upload then.
<bddebian> No, just some stupid shit they want to clean up.  I'll see if I can kick it in the ass
 * persia cheers
<bddebian> Stupid tarball ships .dlls and such
 * persia archives everything in REVU that was uploaded or superseded by another upload
<persia> bddebian: Urk.  That's frustrating, but I suspect it's the opposite for people who need them.
<bddebian> Aye :-)
<slomo> \sh: thanks for caring for that
<slomo> \sh: for hardy it's done already though
<effie_jayx> hello people
<proppy> wow boswars is nice
<\sh> slomo, yepp...I just finished patching from gutsy to dapper...I'll testbuild now and upload the patches
<siretart> slomo: hey there! long time no see, how's it going?
<LaserJock> !merging
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about merging - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<LaserJock> !sync
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sync - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<LaserJock> !newpackage
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<\sh> !selfdestruction
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about selfdestruction - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<LaserJock> hehe
<zul> \sh: hehe
<zul> !longpointystick
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about longpointystick - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<\sh> it's so stupid here right now, unbelievable
<zul> hmmm?
<LaserJock> !packagingguide
<ubotu> packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<LaserJock> ok, so I fixed that one
<\sh> we sold some hp blades and other hp servers with ilo ... question from the customer: "Where is the ilo password?"
<zul> \sh: whoops..
<\sh> oh wow...they threw away old stinky hardware from a second hand hardware store...and now they have professional hardware, and they don't know anything about it...
<\sh> well,....open the machine (non-blades) and read the stickers inside...
<jdong> joejaxx: thanks man :)
<joejaxx> jdong: you are most welcome :)
<jdong>   libwxgtk2.6-dev: Depends: libwxgtk2.6-0 (= 2.6.3.2.1.5ubuntu12) but it is not going to be installed
<jdong> do we have some wx transition going on?
<LaserJock> wow, that's some upstrem version number
<LaserJock> good 'ol wx
<jdong> :)
<jdong> I think they are lacking numbers though
<\sh> cu later ppl
<james_w> It looks to me as though dh_icons only looks in /usr/share/icons, and only looks for png, svg and jpg icons, so calling it when installing an xmp in to /usr/share/pixmaps is unneeded. Does anyone disagree?
<bddebian> dh_icons is deprecated I think
<pochu> bddebian: nope, dh_iconcache is, dh_icons is the replacement :)
<bddebian> Oh yeah, that's it
<pochu> I think someone mentioned a FTBFS log similar to this... Does anyone have a clue about what may have happened? It built in all the other archs fine... http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10374729/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-hppa.gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg_0.10.2-4ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jdong> flacenc.c:989: internal compiler error: in delete_output_reload, at reload1.c:7958
<jdong> heh that's an error nobody likes to see
<RainCT> hi
<pochu> jdong: but is that gcc's problem, right? or is it gstreamer?
<pochu> heya RainCT
<jdong> pochu: well on planet Utopia, nothing in source code one does should *ever* be able to cause that compiler error
<pochu> hmkay
<jdong> pochu: do people on hppa actually watch movies on their machines? :D
<zul> ask lamont :)
<pochu> I don't even know where hppa is used, servers?
<jdong> pochu: it's used?
<zul> no seriously ask lamont
<dhdfoo> the hppa workstations are pretty slow by today's standards
<imbrandon> dhdfoo: your speaking ot someone on a p200 :)
<pochu> jdong: hmm... http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10343029/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.openvrml_0.15.10-10%7Egaspa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<zul> imbrandon: yeah but that is just one of the "computers" you own
<pochu> looks related, although that one is g++
<imbrandon> zul: heh well its my main workstation atm :)
<jdong> pochu: eep!
<zul> imbrandon: heh well you suck then ;)
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: hi!, did send me the e-mail?
<pochu> that was mentioned in launchpad-users ML, I'll replay to ubuntu-devel-discuss
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: actualy i was just writing it now ;)
<imbrandon> i got really busy yesterday
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: \o/
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: that's ok, sometimes it happends :D
<imbrandon> :P
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: how was you daughter's birthday?
<imbrandon> good good, she had a blast
<imbrandon> got her first mp3 player ( time for me to load linux on it ) hehe
<nxvl_work> heh
<james_w> Does anyone know which transition it is that means many packages need an added Build-Depends on libxext-dev?
<dhdfoo> hey - I have notes in REVU about some packages that I need to update them for hardy, what exactly is involved in doing this?
<pochu> dhdfoo: s/gutsy/hardy/ in debian/changelog, I guess.
<dhdfoo> oh ah
<dhdfoo> okay :)
<james_w> and build it in hardy rather than gutsy.
<james_w> and test it there as well :)
<dhdfoo> so I should set up a hardy chroot or installation
<dhdfoo> ok
<james_w> unfortunately the tools in gutsy have trouble if you ask for a hardy chroot. You can get a gutsy one and upgrade it.
<dhdfoo> yeah that sounds like a reasonable way to go
<ajmitch> oh dear, norsetto trying to encourage us to actually use a blog
<jdong> what are those?
<ajmitch> something that the cool kids use
<zul> uh...ok...
<zul> if people want to know what Im doing then they can ask
<jdong> zul: soo... whatcha doin'?
<zul> jdong: stuff :)
<jdong> haha :)
<erable> Hi, I had created a package and I have a problem with license and copyright for this class (it is in Public Domain).
<norsetto> ajmitch: hehe, don't say that to my wife ...
<erable> in debian/copyright, license = domain public ? copyright ?
<RainCT> erable: do you know who the author is?
<erable> RainCT: yes but it'snt a valid mail address.
<slangasek> erable: if it's truly in the public domain, best to put author: $person, and copyright: in the public domain
<slangasek> erable: but you should be careful that it's truly in the public domain; for instance, it's my understanding that authors in Europe can't assign works to the public domain
<DaveMorris> also public domain starts after a certain time in different countries
<DaveMorris> eg those guitar tabs in Cananda
<erable> I think it is in the public domain: http://sourceforge.net/projects/qextserialport/
<slangasek> DaveMorris: the "after a certain time" is so long in all relevant countries that no programs we ship are covered by it, so it would have to be some really old data...
<mok0> I just read the guidelines for new packages. I didn't realize you have to open a needs-packaging bug in LP
<erable> Thanks
<slangasek> erable: I'm afraid that I would assume these authors are European, and therefore a statement of "public domain" is not legally binding; I would suggest trying to contact them somehow and ask for an explicit license
<mok0> It seems noone has ever submitted such a bug
<ajmitch> norsetto: oh? :)
<erable> slangasek: Ok, I'll do. Thanks
<norsetto> ajmitch: I lost count of how many she has ....
<mok0> ajmitch: We are considering migrating our systems from nis to ldap. Is that possible with gutsy?
<ajmitch> mok0: just with migration-tools
<mok0> ajmitch: thx I'll check it out
<RainCT> Adri2000: a short guide on how to get DaD working on local computer would be awesome :P
<TheMuso> /c/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<erable> Hi, What is this linda Warning : The library libqextserialport has a different SOVER versus the shlibs file ?
<slangasek> erable: did you create a shlibs file by hand?
<erable> slangasek; yes.
<erable> slangasek:  Here: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/qextserialport-0711072120/qextserialport-1.1/debian/
<slangasek> erable: ok; why did you create it by hand instead of using dh_makeshlibs?  e.g., "dh_makeshlibs -V 'libqtextserialport (>= 1.1)'"?
<slangasek> er, "libqext" of course, not "libqtext"
<slangasek> erable: anyway, what do you get if you run objdump -p /path/to/library | grep SONAME?
<slangasek> (I don't see anywhere in the upstream source where this is set...)
<proppy> librsvg != libsvg ?
<erable>  slangasek: SONAME      libqextserialport.so.1
<slangasek> erable: ok, then I conclude it's a bug in linda :)
<erable> cool :)
 * StevenK grumbles
<StevenK> Linda probably correctly concludes 1 != 1.1 and then complains
<slangasek> huh?
<slangasek> libqextserialport 1 libqextserialport1 (>= 1.1)
<LordKow> i dont need to mention changes done via MOM do I? they're debian/ stuff like changing maintainer, changing a build-depend. these were all done in the last ubuntu release MOM simply refreshed them in the merge
<slangasek> the sover field there is "1"
<slangasek> the shlibs look correct, and they match the soname of the lib; so linda is wrong
<StevenK> slangasek: That was a pure guess without looking at Linda's code
<StevenK> slangasek: But my point is that 1 != 1.1, and Linda is parsing something wrong somewhere
<slangasek> LordKow: when you write a changelog entry for an updated merge, you should re-list the changes that are outstanding wrt upstream (Debian or otherwise)
<slangasek> StevenK: ok, as long as we agree it's a linda bug :)
<LordKow> slangasek, so this would include changes to the debian directory done by MOM too?
<slangasek> LordKow: MoM doesn't "do" changes to build-depends, it just merges the changes which were previously done; so those are precisely the kind of changes you should be listing, yes
<slangasek> changes to the maintainer field generally don't get listed more than once, from what I've seen
<LordKow> yea exactly, a build-depend was changed in the last ubuntu release. MOM merged this change into the new version. i will go ahead and mention the "change" against debian (even though its not a NEW change)
<StevenK> slangasek: So, what does it mean when an Alpha keeps spewing register contents and "Not tainted" ?
<slangasek> StevenK: it means a kernel problem mmkay
<slangasek> :)
<erable> Thanks slangasek and StevenK :-)
<StevenK> slangasek: It looks like only 2 lines, and it isn't stopping, which makes me not suspect the kernel.
<LordKow> okay should the Maintainer be a specific person, or should it be Ubuntu MOTU Developers?
<LordKow> this is an ubuntu universe package and the maintainer was set to a person (not Ubuntu MOTU)
<StevenK> slangasek: Okay, now it's readable "CIA Machine check: vector=0x630"
 * StevenK sighs, as he suspects memory
 * StevenK tars up stuff quickly
<StevenK> Grumble. I suspect one of the SIMMs has died
<LordKow> i know a lot of ubuntu devs will grumble when i say this but I think they should file bug reports for all of the merges they are doing too :)
<StevenK> Uh huh
<StevenK> LordKow: That doesn't scale
<slangasek> file bug reports why?
<slangasek> StevenK: isn't CIA the crappy IDE controller?
<LordKow> so the contributors dont do it too. however, i just realized the dev doing the merge would be notified of the bug report and would (hopefully) be quick to respond to the bug report
<StevenK> slangasek: I hope not, since this thing doesn't have an IDE controller. :-)
<slangasek> heh
<StevenK> slangasek: It's an Alcor, if that helps any
<StevenK> slangasek: The other clue that it's memory is "correctable ECC error"
<StevenK> slangasek: I can pastebin one or two if you want to see now that I can actually ssh to the machine
<mathiaz> StevenK: can I merge the icecast2 package ?
<StevenK> mathiaz: Sure, mainly because I've not looked at it
<mathiaz> StevenK: well - you're the last one that touched it (IIRC)
<StevenK> Hrm. /srv, /etc/apache2, /usr/local/lib. I think that covers everything
<StevenK> mathiaz: Right, probably because it depended on a transition
<mathiaz> StevenK: yes. it was the libcurl3 -> libcurl4 transition.
<LordKow> do we (ubuntu) use debian's upstream categories in .desktop files? debian changed their categories apparently. I'm not sure if we're synched with them or using our own categories
<StevenK> mathiaz: Please don't say 'libcurl' around me :-)
 * StevenK shivers
<LordKow> "- updated âCategoryâ field âApplication;Graphics;â to âGraphics;3DGraphics;â." (debian)
<pochu> LordKow: I'd say yes, go for it.
<pochu> Isn't Application deprecated?
<pochu> (so that'd be why they changed it)
<LordKow> okay. so would that create a shortcut in the Graphics->3DGraphics folder or is it merely an internal categorical thing?
<LordKow> er not folder, but menu.
<pochu> nope, It will remain as Graphics afaik
<LordKow> okay so my final problem with this merge is setting the Maintainer. should I just keep it as it was in the previous ubuntu package?
<LordKow> i was under the impression that all universe packages should have Maintainer set as "Ubuntu MOTU Developers" but I gues that is not the case
<pochu> LordKow: who is the old one?
<pochu> LordKow: that's the usual practice, but there are exceptions...
<LordKow> +Maintainer: Lukas Fittl <lfittl@ubuntu.com>
 * pochu doesn't know then
<imbrandon> LordKow: no all ubuntu packages must have  @ubuntu.com address as the maintainer
<imbrandon> most just fall into the MOTU email though
<pochu> imbrandon: if it's a merge it should, shouldn't it?
<pochu> as per spec... ;)
<imbrandon> per spec says an @ubuntu.com address that is all
<LordKow> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blender
<pochu> imbrandon: and you said not all need an @ubuntu.com address :)
<pochu> oh
<pochu> no, all...
<imbrandon> correct
<pochu> I read 'not all' :-)
<LordKow> if all need an ubuntu address im not sure how contributors would ever be able to do merges ;)
 * pochu shuts up :(
<pochu> LordKow: ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com ;)
<imbrandon> LordKow: if you dont have a @ubuntu.com address is when you change it to the MOTU field
<StevenK> LordKow: Then they set to Ubuntu MOTU Developers like 99% of the packages should be.
<LordKow> okay, i will set Maintainer accordingly
<LordKow> oh good thing I saw this, do we use the Uploaders field in control or shall I leave it as the debian uploaders?
<Kmos> LordKow: leave it there if there is one from debian
<LordKow> k :)
<LordKow> danke
<slangasek> StevenK: I'm not particularly familiar with Alcor, sorry
<StevenK> slangasek: I think the time has come for me to shift services to another machine anyway :-)
<TheMuso> How long as cdbs been symlinking things like docs and changelogs between packages, even though they are dependent on each other?
<TheMuso> And, should such warnings from lintian as: W: libglibmm-utils-dev: debian-changelog-file-is-a-symlink be ignored?
<slangasek> TheMuso: even though they are, or even though they aren't?
<TheMuso> slangasek: I've got a source package I'm looking at on revu, that uses cdbs, and creates two shared library packages, and two dev packages. One shared library package has the changelogs and docs etc, and all 3 others have symlinks pointing to the parent libs doc dir, since all the other packages depend on this one parent lib.
<TheMuso> if that makes sense...
<TheMuso> So I'm wondering whether I should ignore the above lintian warning.
<slangasek> so you mean "when they are dependent on each other", rather than "even though they are dependent on each other"?
<imbrandon> slangasek: those mean the same thing ...
<slangasek> er, no?
<LordKow> <sarcasm>I loooveee undocumented command line parameters
<TheMuso> slangasek: Yeah.
<slangasek> TheMuso: so to answer that question, then, it's been doing that a month and two days :)
<TheMuso> slangasek: Right, so those warnings can be safely ignored I presume.
<slangasek> TheMuso: is the dependency between these packages strictly versioned?
<slangasek> TheMuso: if so, then yes; if not, I would suggest making it strictly versioned, so that you never have to worry about your packages not matching the changelog (or other docS)
<TheMuso> slangasek: Not everything is strictly versioned, I'll make a note of that to the package uploader, thanks.
<LordKow> blender devs really need to clean up their code. i think their is a compiler warning for every line of blender code
<Burgundavia> they also need a UI, one that doesn't like the 90s
<huats> norsetto: Hey
<norsetto> huats: heilÃ¡
<huats> just to let you know that the modification in tagtool  works...
<huats> is it enough or do you need an email attesting it ?
<norsetto> huats: yes, we need a +1 comment
<norsetto> huats: mercÃ­!
<huats> :)
<huats> norsetto: done
<norsetto> huats: much obliged
<huats> :)
<huats> do you also need the mono-addins test ?
<norsetto> huats: hope you didn't leave any trace of tomato sauce on the report ...
<huats> LOL
<huats> no, but in my stomach
<huats> there is much more
<huats> :)
<huats> (I had to finish yesterday ones)
<RainCT> good night
<LordKow> nooooo if my backlight is going out im not going to be happy. im not sure how much Dell will charge but im guessing it will be copious amounts of money for a screen replacement
<norsetto> night all
 * TheMuso kicks proftpd-dfsg.
<StevenK> proftpd has files that can't be redistributed? Who knew.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Its not that. The Debian package ships with a module that doesn't want to load at proftpd startup, and so far, I can't work hout how to fix it, other than disabling the module, which I'd rather not do, as so far as I know, its language related.
<slangasek> s/can't be redistributed/aren't available under DFSG terms/
<TheMuso> So, the Debian package is broken, and I don't want to ship a broken package.
<StevenK> Ha!
<StevenK> Retribution!
<s1024kb> proppy: good morning
<proppy> s1024kb: hi !
<proppy> s1024kb: good night :)
<s1024kb> proppy: wanna ask you a question: now i had finished a merging, want to report the bug, i see the package is already on the list, is it i should select that one?
<TheMuso> Oh yay! Its a symbol load error. The module builds, but obviously doesn't have a needed symbol.
<proppy> s1024kb: which list?
<proppy> s1024kb: (also I'm not a MOTU, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask to :)
<s1024kb> proppy: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
<proppy> oh ok
<proppy> you want to report a bug
<proppy> and someone already reported it right ?
<proppy> you need to purpose your work as a comment then
<s1024kb> proppy: yes
<proppy> and look forward coordinating with the person currently working on
<proppy> depending of the status
<proppy> and the assignee
<s1024kb> proppy: the status is "fixed released", and the assignee is \sh, our friend
<s1024kb> proppy: should i choose this bug and "add a comment"?
<proppy> it means it has already been taken care of
<proppy> you should coordinate with \sh_away
<proppy> who is currently away
<proppy> can you past me the bug number ?
<s1024kb> proppy: haha no problem, i will see him this afternoon. #17221
<proppy> bug #17221
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 17221 in ubuntu "yappy: new changes from Debian require merging" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17221
<proppy> s1024kb: you should check with your mentor what you need to do
<proppy> for that not to happen again
<proppy> maybe checking for the bug report in the first time, and dropping a comment telling you're on it
<proppy> won't have result in a duplicate work
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-22
<s1024kb> proppy: my teacher (my memtor) will not appear during my daytime (because of the time zone difference), but i can meet \sh later on jabber... :) will talk to him about it. :)
<TheMuso> Muahahaha! You are mine you piece of crap!
<s1024kb> TheMuso: ?? what are you talking about? haha.
<StevenK> TheMuso is talking about bddebian.
<TheMuso> s1024kb: I am beating a package into submission so it works.
 * StevenK hides
<TheMuso> StevenK: lol
<TheMuso> StevenK: Basically I know why the module fails to load now. The symbol it can't be found is within an ifdef, which is not defined.
<TheMuso> Figure that one out.
<TheMuso> s/it/that/
<s1024kb> TheMuso: i envy you. wish that next time i will laugh like you too.
<TheMuso> So the way the package is built needs tweaking.
<StevenK> TheMuso: It probably involves hitting autoconf until it sprinkles -D in?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Actually no, it simply involves adjusting the package to build the module statically into the proftpd binary and core libs, rather than have it as an external module, which causes it to not work in the first damn place.
<TheMuso> Upstream screwed that one just a little.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Fair enough, I defer to your annoyance
<TheMuso> Or more to the point, the Debian maintainer probably didn't read the docs enough to work that out...
<TheMuso> At any rate, this will be fixable.
<StevenK> Francesco Paolo Lovergine. Young whippersnapper, based on the fact that I don't know him
<TheMuso> And, a patch will be attached to debian bug heh
<TheMuso> oops
<TheMuso> but yeah
<TheMuso> debian bug 451090
<ubotu> Debian bug 451090 in proftpd "proftpd: error loading module 'mod_lang.c'" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/451090
<StevenK> GAH
<StevenK> Modest, I will destroy you.
<LordKow> heheh, StevenK brings death and destruction like a plague
<StevenK> Only to things that piss me off.
<superm1> hey folks.  could i bugger someone for a revu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ipod-convenience ?
<imbrandon> superm1: looking now, not that it matters package wise but why couldent this be added to libgpod ?
<superm1> imbrandon, well the way it works is significantly out of line with other ipod models
<superm1> imbrandon, and as such requires a lot of workarounds (which are in there)
<imbrandon> ahh
<superm1> amarok is going to need a patch too, but i'm working that out right now
<imbrandon> seems like it looks good to me, i'll advocate, but on the amarok note, make sure you send it upstream tom and possibly for amarok2 (kde4 ) also
<imbrandon> s/tom/too
<superm1> yeah i was planning on it, i'm struggling to find an noninvasive way to do it
<superm1> thanks
<LordKow> you know your a linux developer when you speak in sed
<LordKow> oh man my other coworkers missed this giant unopened bottle of pepsi, MINE
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RAOF> Hiya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi RAOF
<Hobbsee> wow, quiet...
<imbrandon> heh yea, heya Hobbsee
<bddebian> Gads, I don't even know where to start with this stupid java package
<imbrandon> bddebian: send al java output to /dev/null :)
<imbrandon> all*
<bddebian> imbrandon: Amen :-)
<bddebian> Looks like kind of a neat game though
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> qemu running on a remote host forwarded via ssh+X is slow
<StevenK> imbrandon: s/qemu/anything/
<imbrandon> heh true
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: yes, it's quiet :P
<LaserJock> hello all!
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock!
<ajmitch> LaserJock!!
 * ajmitch watches him run away
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> phew, finally done with school, dentist, and am at my grandfather's until Sunday
<ajmitch> excellent :)
<LaserJock> so maybe I can get some stuff done
<LaserJock> you know, important stuff ;-)
<ajmitch> golden poniez!
 * imbrandon is taking the time off to work-on apt-mirror updates
<Hobbsee> poniez!
<imbrandon> poniez time
<LaserJock> darn, pitti/TB beat me to the SRU stuff
<ajmitch> yep
<LaserJock> I wish we could have more discussion within MOTU before going to TB
<ajmitch> well it's going from archive admin dissatisfaction & being pushed down to MOTU
<ajmitch> which is quite fair - pitti wants to make sure that the archive doesn't get crack in it
<LaserJock> well, archive admins should talk to us first
<LaserJock> and let us figure out a recommendation or something
<LaserJock> I think I'm more inclined towards 2-MOTU acks rather than a MOTU SRU team
<TheMuso> Obviously common sense wasn't being used for stable release updates, thats how I see it anyway.
<LaserJock> well
<ajmitch> the whole thing with -proposed being used as a testing dumping ground
<LaserJock> we need to figure out what the root issue is
<LaserJock> is it that some MOTUs didn't understand what the SRU policy was, i.e. what should be an SRU
<LaserJock> or what
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I fail to see the usefulness of -proposed if it isn't a testing dumping ground, honestly
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<ajmitch> that it's to be used as a final testing step, not the first one?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Exactly
<LaserJock> well, yes and no
<StevenK> -proposed is for widespread testing, and moving to -updates
<LaserJock> it should definately have a reasonable first testing
<LaserJock> but also I'm not sure how tested -proposed is
<LaserJock> I tend to think that how things get *into* -proposed is not as big of an issue as what happens once they are there
<LaserJock> to start with package removal wasn't possible in LP
<ajmitch> well it seems that pitti is not happy with the quality of what has been uploaded there
<LaserJock> I think that's been fixed
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, but the question is how to fix that
 * TheMuso wonders how many uploads to proposed get rejected.
<LaserJock> if it's easy to remove packages
<LaserJock> we can utilize more peer review in -proposed
<LaserJock> and get rid of bad ones
<LaserJock> of course there *should* be very few bad ones
<ajmitch> part of what pitti wasn't happy about is what bugs should get fixed via -updates
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> which is an education problem, IMO, not a policing problem
<LaserJock> if certain MOTUs don't understand what is SRU-worthy then they need to be told
 * TheMuso wonders if having all MOTU hopefuls do one SRU test is going to far. :p
<LaserJock> I absolutely think that if a MOTU consistenly can't figure out what is SRU-worthy they need some
<LaserJock> "tough love"
<nenolod> with a cat of ninetails?
<LaserJock> no
<nenolod> oh, darn.
<LaserJock> that wouldn't be very CoC ;-)
<nenolod> i think there's a joke in there somewhere!
<RAOF> Anyway, it's difficult to breed them.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i dont think it explicitly mentions it
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: the SRU policy says what is SRU worthy
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: well, this is one of the things worrying me about our MOTU's - because they appaer to not be sane.
 * Fujitsu walks in.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It's not a very thorough definition, is it?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: then lets fix that, not keep changing processes
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: that would be my logic, yes.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: no, but if somebody is consistently way off then we should address it
 * TheMuso agrees with Hobbsee and LaserJock.
<LaserJock> if it's close then I don't see how that's a Ubuntu Archive issue
<nenolod> Hobbsee, of course MOTUs aren't sane. the established definition of sanity is "uses Microsoft Windows and fits in with society", most MOTUs are "geeks" :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<TheMuso> haha
<LaserJock> nenolod: geeks aren't sane? :-)
<nenolod> LaserJock, that's what microsoft wants us to believe!
<LaserJock> hmm
<ajmitch> LaserJock: at least I'm not
<nenolod> they have mind control reprogramming satellites
<nenolod> (bought from the NSA of course)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, that we know
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: unfortunately, it seems that the preferred route is to change processes, rather than to address our underperforming MOTU's.  especially as we have no removals, so there is no actual "look, we're serious, you need to change your behaviour here"
<nenolod> well, everybody makes mistakes
<LaserJock> so we should figure out if it's MOTU-wide or a few MOTUs
<LaserJock> nenolod: of course
<Hobbsee> nenolod: but nto repeated ones :)
<nenolod> so i don't think getting rid of MOTUs is an answer (not that I am a MOTU, mind.)
<nenolod> perhaps some review process of SRUs would be a good idea
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i'm of the opinion that it's a few - but some of us arent pushing SRU's anyway
<LaserJock> we should be forgiving of people who make occasional mistakes, we all do, but people who are told the issues and can't seem to change are a big problem
<Hobbsee> nenolod: all SRU's being attempted should be sane.
<nenolod> yes, but assuming that they are is a roadmap to disaster
<Hobbsee> nenolod: if they're not, then we have a wider problem - and all the review in the world wont change the behaviour of the people putting in crack.
<nenolod> good point
<Hobbsee> nenolod: assuming that the people are trusted...is it?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: sure, can you think of a sane way to remove MOTUs? :)
<LaserJock> I think we should work on more peer-review. as a scientist I think it's great idea
<ajmitch> or more stringent checks for potential MOTUs?
<Hobbsee> nenolod: if all the MOTU's are good, then we shouldn't *need* a review.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: seconded.
<LaserJock> I think a 2-MOTU peer review system would be excellent
<StevenK> ajmitch: +1
<Hobbsee> nenolod: the potential MOTU's are getting reviewed all the time - they should only get MOTU when they're sane enough ot make such decisions, IMO.
<LaserJock> I think *all* MOTUs should be stepping up
<StevenK> LaserJock: I think *all* Ponies should be ponies up ponies ponies ponies
<nenolod> Hobbsee, i agree that they should only get MOTU when they have demonstrated thorough understanding of policy in universe
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Hahah.
 * StevenK hides
<LaserJock> StevenK: getting there
<nenolod> which in some cases is wider latitude than debian policy (e.g. SRUs)
<Hobbsee> nenolod: ideally, we wouldn't need such great amounts of policy, because people were sane, but...
<LaserJock> well, common sense should work
 * bddebian isn't
<nenolod> well, i don't see what you mean by 'sane'
<nenolod> it'd be helpful, probably, to put a concrete definition of what you mean
<slangasek> write it down and call it a sanity policy
<Hobbsee> nenolod: to not shove stuff into the repositories that breaks systems?
<Hobbsee> slangasek: heh :)
<Hobbsee> nenolod: to only uplaod stuff that would pass the peer-review proceedures.
<LaserJock> frankly, policy should be there to guide people in best practices, not keep dumb people from making mistakes.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, well, consider that it might not break on their machine
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: where's the breathing policy, btw?  just incase someone forgets to breathe.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: it's on a wiki somewhere I'm sure
<nenolod> LaserJock, right, i agree there too
<ajmitch> link?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: google it, shesh
<Hobbsee> nenolod: which is where -proposed comes into effect, yes.
<Hobbsee> nenolod: but some stuff that gets uploaded clearly wasnt tested, etc.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, like audacious-plugins-1.3.5-4ubuntu3 :D
<Hobbsee> nenolod: yeah, that was a bit of a nightmare.  *sigh*
<StevenK> There was another one?
<LaserJock> we gotta get people to take a bit more ownership of Universe, methinks
<Hobbsee> StevenK: no, htis was the one around release
<nenolod> well, i do all i can to handle the audacious packages in universe without being a motu
 * ajmitch really wants to hear people's suggestions about the MC approving new MOTUs
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Yes, there were 2 that caused problems
<Hobbsee> nenolod: i think you do a good job.  i've yet to see your crack :)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, i remember them.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I think being comfortable with saying "no, not yet" is the key
<nenolod> infact, recently i asked le_vert to make me co-maintainer of audacious in debian to help with that a little more
<LaserJock> nobody really wants to say no to people, it's not fun at all
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: that depends how much of a BOFH you are.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: it's fun reading people the riot act.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, *most* people don't like saying no to people
 * Hobbsee wonders if she'll end up reading the riot act to staff members *twice* this week.
<StevenK> A BOFH doesn't read people the riot act...
<LaserJock> you're obviously an exception
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sure, it's just a matter of having enough info to know whether it's a yes/defer/no
<jcastro> LaserRock!
<ajmitch> clickety-click!
<LaserJock> jcastro: haha
<nenolod> StevenK, right. a BOFH just sends 220V up their ethernet line instead
<StevenK> nenolod: Exactly.
<ajmitch> uh oh, jcastro!
<Hobbsee> StevenK: well, no, i think i got the wrong term
<Hobbsee> nenolod: *grin*
<nenolod> goes "you're done contributing for a while" and walks off
 * imbrandon runs
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yep, so we need to demand the info we need
<nenolod> well, audacious is a nightmare because people on the ubuntuforums do checkinstall and such
<ajmitch> but checkinstall is great
<LaserJock> in some ways it was easier to have the big-bad-TB to do the dirty work
<nenolod> checkinstall needs to die in a fire :(
<LaserJock> but we I think we gotta get tough with people
<Hobbsee> nenolod: it was best when it was segfaulting, yes.
<nenolod> does the CoC cover 220V to ethernet port?
<nenolod> ;)
<Hobbsee> nenolod: doesn't mention it.  should be fine :)
<LaserJock> and not let dholbach nominate *every* person that's ever worked on the desktop team ;-)
 * ajmitch sighs
<nenolod> generally MOTU process serves us well, though
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: +1 for being harder on some of our MOTUs, and motu-hopefulls
<ajmitch> it's fair enough for him to nominate people he's worked closely with, given that such people will usually be focussing just on those tasks
<Hobbsee> nenolod: take this, for eg.
<nenolod> i mean, it's a lot better than it was around dapper
<TheMuso> There were far fewer of us around dapper afaik.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, but it should also be fair for the rest of the MC to decline them if they aren't there yet
<LaserJock> TheMuso: where there?
<Hobbsee> nenolod: recently, a new MOTU filed a sync request.  when asked why the ubuntu changes could be dropped, he wrote "ubuntu changes can be dropped".  There's *no* excuse for that, apart from utter lazyness.  that cant even be clasified as a mistake.
<TheMuso> sorry, afaik there were far fewer of us MOTUS/hopefuls around the dapper cycle
<nenolod> Hobbsee, that's ridiculous
<Hobbsee> nenolod: that says that we have a problem, and need to solve those core issues.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: you think? I'm not really sure in terms of active people
<Hobbsee> nenolod: exactly.  yet nothing's been done about it yet, apart from an archive admin yelling at him, because people dont like being harsh.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: As I have said, I could be wrong.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: problem is that we're relying on sponsor feedback, there's not really anything beyond that at the moment
<nenolod> Hobbsee, oh well, that's not as bad as the debian developer applicant which put in a debian/copyright file of a package of mine which said my code was GPL3
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I could do, I just don't have any real numbers on that
<nenolod> when it er, wasn't ;)
<imbrandon> go back to the TB approving new MOTU's :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well *do* it
<Hobbsee> nenolod: yeah, well.  some of them probably suck too :)
<ajmitch> ok, let's scrap the MC then
<Fujitsu> The TB grilling wasn't exactly thorough, either.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: there are *no* limitations on what the MC can ask, etc.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I thought that didn't end up working a lot of the time...
<LaserJock> ajmitch: no, I'm not saying that, I'm saying let's empower the MC to get their job done
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Live through -core-dev, then
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hence me asking for *suggestions* so that we don't have all this *complaining* about *stuff*
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Haha.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: core was kinda fun
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ah, I see what you mean now
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> core was scary :P
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you want some suggestions on what to ask
<Hobbsee> but amusing, as i wasnt getting asked core questions :P
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: to say the leaste :)
<nenolod> well
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: pffft, you were a shoe-in
<ajmitch> LaserJock: since it seems that we can't really do anything right, sure
 * TheMuso was disappointed that the TB didn't put him through a meet grinder.
<StevenK> I didn't get asked the core questions either.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, imho, the guy who said "changes can be dropped" and didn't provide rationale, probably has no business being a contributor to universe, MOTU or not
<TheMuso> And hopes that he does, when he eventually goes for core dev.
<StevenK> I think they figured out I can package if I wrote a package checker.
<imbrandon> i dunno if mine was the standard qusetions or not, but i know it lasted an hour vs most peoples 20 minutes
<imbrandon> heh
<TheMuso> StevenK: You did have DD on your side as well.
<Hobbsee> nenolod: they're a useful contributor, usually.  but appears to not be taking much care with ubuntu stuff, based on that bug.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: it's not that at all. I feel like you guys are being "tied" by some social things
<nenolod> Hobbsee, hmm, well, he needs to be told to get his arse in gear then ;)
<Hobbsee> nenolod: which would suggest that they should go back to having their stuff reviewed, until they get it consistently right.
<nenolod> right, i agree
 * TheMuso remembers only going for MOTU once he had gotten uploads done at least 3-5 times without corrections being needed.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, i imagine it should also count badly towards any MOTU application at the moment (if he isn't already a MOTU)
<Hobbsee> nenolod: the guy is a MOTU :(
<nenolod> Hobbsee, he shouldn't be then
<Hobbsee> nenolod: which makes me worried about the archive.
<nenolod> yes, if craq like that is slipping through, it's a bad thing
<Hobbsee> nenolod: exactly, but there's no removal procedure, and people dont want to deal with removals anyway, so nothing ever gets done, and so he can still upload goodness knows what.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, well, there needs to be a removal procedure then
<StevenK> The problem is, every time we have this conversation five people jump up and say "That guy? He's *great*. He knows everything and never makes mistakes."
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, I wouldn't say there is *no* removal procesdure
<Hobbsee> nenolod: +1, but i havent had much traction on it.
<LaserJock> it's just not well-defined or written anywhere
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: well, true.  people just refuse to use it.
<LaserJock> but obviously the governing body that gave the power can take it away
<StevenK> And dholbach would never allow the use of one, since we all trust each other and sing Kumbaya
<LaserJock> ok, so Matt Zimmerman wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<TheMuso> StevenK: +1
 * StevenK shuts up
<Hobbsee> StevenK: *grin*
<LaserJock> StevenK: well, dholbach is not the MC either
<LaserJock> but I know what you mean
<StevenK> LaserJock: *nods*
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<Hobbsee> i'd like to see people who will actually take a stand on the MC.
 * StevenK giggles
<Hobbsee> as in, the active ones are good
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: sure, I'll step aside for you
<LaserJock> ajmitch: stop it ;-)
<TheMuso> I think I've said this before, but... You work on a package that could potentially be on millions of systems, and that package could just as equally destroy their system.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: not you.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no
 * StevenK ponders scripting "LaserJock: Ponies" every time LaserJock says something
<LaserJock> ajmitch: we know you are plenty rough, it's just that some of us feel like MC aren't really saying what they are thinking, IMO
<TheMuso> SO, there is *MASSIVE* responsibility
<ajmitch> no, I'm not
<StevenK> TheMuso: The thought is, "You effectively have root on every Ubuntu machine that has universe enabled."
<Hobbsee> StevenK: which is all, by default.
<ajmitch> we know that Hobbsee will beat up anyone who's not ready though
<TheMuso> StevenK: Indeed.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: It wasn't when we both started :-)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i cant if i'm not actively sponsoring.  and i cant if i cant find a solid reason why tehy shouldn't, technically.
<nenolod> well, you hardly have root
<LaserJock> ajmitch: would it be helpful if MOTUs responded more to applications, perhaps being a bit rough?
<Hobbsee> nenolod: every package they install could have a rootkit in it
<RAOF> nenolod: We can if we want to.  post/pre inst/rm scripts get run as root
<TheMuso> I follow the MC list, but rarely comment, due to having no experience with the applicant in question.
<Hobbsee> nenolod: it's root while install, etc.
<LaserJock> nenolod: a nice postinst can do whatever you like ;-)
<ajmitch> TheMuso: neither do we
<StevenK> Hence why it's *effectively* root.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: obviously that is an issue
<nenolod> well, i mean "hardly have root", as in, packages are usually reviewed in the archive
<ajmitch> hence relying on people to comment
<LaserJock> nenolod: well ... some are
<ajmitch> LaserJock: this is why debian has the NM procedure
<nenolod> so i would hope a package which had a rootkit would be rejected ;p
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i dont feel that i can say "no, i dont feel that you're ready, procedure-wise" without evidence to back that up as to why
<nenolod> LaserJock, i'm being an idealist! shh. ;)
<Hobbsee> nenolod: once you're a MOTU, no one's checking your package :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: and you think we don't have the same problem? :)
<Hobbsee> well, hardly
<nenolod> Hobbsee, i'm being an idealist ;)
<LaserJock> ok, so what if we do have a miny NM?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'm saying that it should be a legit reason to reject.  i'm meaning it as a general problem, not one specific to me.
<LaserJock> *mini
<StevenK> LaserJock: If we have a mini NM, I'm resigning
<TheMuso> lol
<LaserJock> whatever
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's what I've been asking about, things to ask them rather than just relying on "+1!!!" from everyone
<Hobbsee> NM is known for taking forever.  i dont think that's a great idea.
<StevenK> Let me make it very plain, "The fuck we are having NM, or any process similar."
<nenolod> well, i think people should have to associate well-thought input instead of "+1 / -1 / whatever"
<LaserJock> StevenK: that's silly
<ajmitch> says the person who did NM in 3 days :P
<nenolod> again, i'm being pointlessly hopeful ;p
<Hobbsee> also, we know that people will give the correct responses for NM, then do whatever the heck they like
<LaserJock> we can have a NM process that's much slimer and faster
<Hobbsee> in the case of our earlier sync requester, we *know* that they do know the correct procedure - they just chose not to follow it.
<Hobbsee> so i'm not sure that actually helps.
<TheMuso> ...like not testing if a package installs/runs before uploading? Yeah I've been fighting such a package like that today.
<StevenK> I don't think we need a NM, mini or otherwise
<nenolod> Hobbsee, one solution is not to do the sync until they do follow it
<LaserJock> StevenK: why?
<nenolod> Hobbsee, but that just sidesteps the problem imo
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: MOTU knowledge, or lack of it, is not the problem.
<StevenK> Exactly
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: and thus, NM, or a variant, probably doesn't help.
<LaserJock> why not?
<nenolod> it appears to be sheer lazyness
<LaserJock> maybe I'm confused as to what you're meaning
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: because the problem is lazyness, or not using common sense.
<StevenK> LaserJock: Because then it just turns into more red tape
<LaserJock> or perhaps I don't know what *I'm* meaning
<Hobbsee> and you'll never pick that up in NM.
<nenolod> LaserJock, the MOTU in question made a conscious decision just to not follow policy
<LaserJock> nenolod: well, that we can deal with
<StevenK> Muahaha
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<Hobbsee> hhahahaha
<GoldenPony> LaserJock: Ponies!
<LaserJock> I'm talking about people getting *into* MOTU in the first place
<nenolod> omg. ponies!
<LaserJock> and perhaps having a bit more proscribed process
<LaserJock> that gives more information for the MC to deal with
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<nenolod> LaserJock, well, i think the NM process is fine
<LaserJock> things that demonstrate knowledge, working as a team, and application of policies
<nenolod> but again, IANAM ;p
<nenolod> or, maybe IANAMY (i am not a maintainer yet) ;)
<LaserJock> ok, there are essentially two things I see
<LaserJock> one is dealing with current MOTUs that are causing problems
<Hobbsee> correct
<nenolod> and the other is dealing with applicants who don't know what they are doing?
<LaserJock> and the other is making sure that the MC has real information with which to make a decision on granting MOTUship
<LaserJock> so ...
<nenolod> well, what do you see as "real information"?
<StevenK> LaserJock: I think the channel is swinging in favour of you stopping this discussion and finishing the Ponies
<LaserJock> the things I said above:
<ajmitch> hah
<LaserJock> things that demonstrate knowledge, working as a team, and application of policies
<nenolod> well, i don't know how well that is
<nenolod> some people change when you aren't watching what they are doing closely
<TheMuso> People can do anything to get in, but once they have relatively unchecked access, they can currently do their worst, and get a slap on the wrist.
<LaserJock> StevenK: well, if you guys think Ponies are more important than the future of MOTU and people messing it up for everybody then I guess I'll just give up ;-)
<TheMuso> IMO
<nenolod> TheMuso: exactly
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: do both :)
<LaserJock> TheMuso: sure, we need *both*
<LaserJock> we need to make sure we have good people becoming MOTU
<LaserJock> and we need to make sure they *stay* good people
 * ajmitch wonders what effective punishments people want
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed.  but i'd suggest dealing with the ones who are actively doing crack, undetected first, before we deal with the new ones applying - as we can put them off for a bit
<LaserJock> I think removal of upload rights is fine
<Hobbsee> risk management, and such
<nenolod> ajmitch, i still say 220V to ethernet port followed by "you're no longer maintaining packages in Ubuntu atm. kthx." is fine
<nenolod> ;)
<TheMuso> hahaha
 * ajmitch really doesn't like the removal or nothing
<LaserJock> I think conditional removal of upload right can be effective
 * bddebian wonders how "good" is defined, he should probably be worried
<LaserJock> I don't know what else we can do for "poisonous people"
<nenolod> i don't know, can't maintain packages without a working ethernet port
<nenolod> ;p
<LaserJock> bddebian: no, you're not a problem
<nenolod> well
<nenolod> you could, at 56kbps
<ajmitch> bddebian: why do you think I'm avoiding doing work? :)
<nenolod> ;p
<Hobbsee> nenolod: wireless? :)
<TheMuso> TO give people an idea of how hard I am on myself, I have several times, gone very close to deactivating my own upload rights, and requesting review of my work for a while, simply because I was getting so complacent.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, 2.4ghz noise generator
<nenolod> :D
<LaserJock> the problem is people who can't take correction
<StevenK> *cough*
<LaserJock> TheMuso: and that's why you are exactly the type of person we need ;-)
<StevenK> I wonder which non-MOTU we're talking about
<nenolod> Hobbsee, at the same time you 220V the ethernet, you key down on 2.4ghz with amateur radio equipment to ensure the wireless hardware is fried too
<nenolod> ;)
<ajmitch> StevenK: we're mainly talking about existing MOTUs at the moment
<LaserJock> StevenK: I thought we were taking about MOTUs
<Hobbsee> nenolod: hehe :)
<ajmitch> and I don't think the non-MOTU in question has applied to be a MOTU
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: you can still use the sponsorhisp queue, if you're not sure.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I'm well aware of that, but it was more an issue of complacency rather than not being sure of something packaging related. As you all know, I ask before going ahead and doing something I'm not sure about
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: true
 * ajmitch will try & grab a dump of today's IRC log & send it to the MC peoples
<ajmitch> LaserJock: going to be at the next MOTU meeting?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I was missing little things, and simply not being thorough.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: when is it?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, true.  then you exercise restriant, and don't upload, even though you can
<LaserJock> do you know offhand?
<LaserJock> I think we should really encourage peer review
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Which is why I was goign to deactivate myself, as I would *HAVE* to get an ack first.
<TheMuso> Having upload rights there would be too tempting and too easy.
<Hobbsee> hmmm.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: friday, 12:00UTC
<ajmitch> (iirc)
<jcastro> http://stompbox.typepad.com/blog/2007/11/firefox-apply-d.html
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yikes, that's 5am
<jcastro> comments welcome!
<nenolod> 12:00 UTC is 6am here :P
 * Hobbsee views ppa as somewhat of a dumping ground, but not the actual ubuntu archives
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I'd do that, but I'm automagically a member of MOTU anyway
<jcastro> hi Hobbsee, LaserJock, ajmitch, others I don't know!
<ajmitch> mr castro!
<nenolod> Hobbsee, i haven't experimented with ppa
<nenolod> i just upload proposed stuff to http://nenolod.net/~nenolod/incoming
<nenolod> ;)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: But I view core dev as something completely different.
<TheMuso> If you are core dev, you have to be more sure of yourself, and really have to be thorough
<Hobbsee> hey jcastro!
<Fujitsu> jcastro: Is it really that much better? I know 2 was shocking and made me move to Epiphany.
<imbrandon> jcastro dosent know me :(
<nenolod> or to revu
<jcastro> Fujitsu: join the club
<nenolod> or to mentors
<ajmitch> jcastro: what? it doesn't totally suck?!
<jcastro> imbrandon: didn't know you were around!
<nenolod> depends on where i want it to go ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> jcastro: I only run firefox for the extensions :)
<jcastro> ajmitch: no, it's actually quite awesome
<jcastro> it feels like a rewrite
<jcastro> seriously
<imbrandon> yea just keeping out of the line of fire , working on a package update
<ajmitch> apart from extensions, epiphany >> firefox 2.x
<jcastro> imbrandon: you still a kubuntu guy or just a generalist these days?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: not partaking in our spirited discussion?
 * Fujitsu installs firefox-3.0
<imbrandon> generalist with alot of kubuntu in his bag :)
<imbrandon> jcastro: ^^
<ajmitch> he has lots of baggage :)
<jcastro> Fujitsu: asac is on vacation, give him a week to get the full thing on board.
<imbrandon> LOL
<jcastro> although that Ubulette guy is on fire recently wrt. firefox/mozilla work
<nenolod> personally, one reason why i have refrained from trying to apply for full debian developer rights is because i think i would probably start uploading craq due to the utter convenience of it
<nenolod> ;)
<TheMuso> nenolod: lol
<StevenK> jcastro: Dude. You have childhood issues.
<RAOF> jcastro: I'm waiting for epiphany to build against xulrunner-1.9.  Then I get the nice interface *and* the gtk2 form widgets.
<jcastro> RAOF: yeah, me too.
<StevenK> jcastro: "Seriously. I feel like an unbeaten step-child."
<jcastro> StevenK: heh
<imbrandon> epiphany+webkit :)
 * StevenK drowns imbrandon 
<nenolod> imbrandon, yes
<nenolod> imbrandon, lets get firefox replaced with epiwebkit by hardy+1
<Ubulette> jcastro, you woke me up :)
<nenolod> ^^
<jcastro> Ubulette: WOO! \o/
<nenolod> and so, i think imbrandon just had cardiac arrest ;)
<jcastro> imbrandon: so dude, you see dholbach's new push for MOTU developers right?
<Ubulette> Am i on fire ? really ?
<jcastro> Ubulette: hot action dude.
<Ubulette> i have a bunch of packages ready
<imbrandon> jcastro: yup yup :) time for some more kbuntu MOTU's :)
<LaserJock> jcastro: what's that?
<nenolod> Ubulette, apparently. you might want to get some fire extinguisher ;p
<jcastro> LaserJock: see planet
 * ajmitch looks at the planet
<Ubulette> ff3b1, xul1.9b1, prism, seamonkey1, seamonkey2, etc...
<jcastro> imbrandon: yeah, so I've been pinging nixternal but I probably should have pinged #kubuntu as a whole
<jcastro> imbrandon: the idea is to blow up MOTU participation something fierce.
<nenolod> i'm working on trying to package songbird just for lol
<jcastro> Think of an open week, but all year long
<ajmitch> jcastro: we're just arguing about that sort of thing
<nenolod> :D
<jcastro> ajmitch: oh? should i page up?
<imbrandon> jcastro: ya
<imbrandon> page up
<jcastro> sec.
<ajmitch> jcastro: in terms of whether we're strict enough about who gets upload rights
<jcastro> what time index?
<imbrandon> heh the worry is about $quality
<imbrandon> probably the last hour or so
<ajmitch> pretty much exactly an hour, after LaserJock lit the SRU powderkeg
<jcastro> ah, so ...
<imbrandon> basicly its boinging down to *some* existing MOTU's need a good thump on the head and there is worries if a big push is done that that *some* will become more, and also what do do NOW with the *some*
<jcastro> the idea is not to lower standards
<imbrandon> boiling*
<Fujitsu> Boing.
<ajmitch> a good summary, imbrandon :)
<jcastro> the idea is to bring more people in general.
<ajmitch> which has to be balanced with keeping quality even higher than it is now
<jcastro> so, like, if you guys accept, let's say, X% of applicants
<ajmitch> and not scaring everyone away
<jcastro> the idea isn't to lower that
<nenolod> more MOTUs are good as long as they do good work
<nixternal> boingboing!
<nenolod> but more MOTUs are bad if they do craq
<jcastro> the idea is to bring more people in to apply for X
<RAOF> But even if we don't lower the bar, we'll still get *more* head-hitting candidates.
<nixternal> we only need the trinity damnit! we don't need all of these MOTUs!!! :p
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that's what I'm good at I guess, perhaps it's my rural upbringing, love to play with fire
<ajmitch> jcastro: yeah, so we were talking about how hard it is to review these new people for MOTU
<imbrandon> jcastro: hell yea i'm all for pushing for more MOTU , as we;ve talked before aobut it, but the $quality thing of applicants has been bothing
<imbrandon> bothering*
<imbrandon> wow i cant talk tonight
<nixternal> and what's different with any other night :)
<jcastro> ajmitch: I'm not worried so much about how fast it takes someone to be a MOTU, just that we get more people applying for MOTUs to begin with.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Of course you can't. You are on IRC. :p
<imbrandon> shush
<LaserJock> imbrandon: thanks for summing up what i've been trying to say for hours
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> hehe
<ajmitch> jcastro: and that's still hard to deal with :)
<jcastro> if it takes you guys 3 months to make someone a MOTU then that's fine, my issue is finding people to apply to begin with
<nenolod> imo, ubuntu universe packagers should strive for higher quality than debian/main
<nixternal> imbrandon: http://www.cabowaboradio.com <- that might be up your alley if you like that type of music
<LaserJock> jcastro: well yes, that is a big issue
<ajmitch> when there are more people, it's that much harder to have people working personally with them & able to give good sponsor feedback
<LaserJock> as I've looked around some other distros
<jcastro> have you guys talked to dholbach about this?
<ajmitch> so scaling the MOTU application process is a priority
<jcastro> <-- only here on his own time, not tasked to do MOTU specifically
<ajmitch> we will, I'm going to email the log to him & talk to him
<nxvl> imbrandon: did u finish the mail?
<LaserJock> I have to honestly say that MOTU is probably the least technically proficient on average :(
<nenolod> ajmitch, \o/
<nixternal> ajmitch: how about something like Debian has for the NM process?
<ajmitch> nixternal: hahah, see StevenK's response :)
<StevenK> Oh GAR
<ajmitch> just scroll up :)
<StevenK> I'm not saying it again
<nixternal> jeesh
<nixternal> StevenK: yes you are! I am not scrolling up :p
<jcastro> LaserJock: but that's fixable. We can scale lots of parts of Ubuntu, I don't see how MOTU could be any different.
 * nixternal scrolls down
<imbrandon> nxvl: actualy i'm having a hard time pointing you in the dirrection your wanting to go, how about if you pick a "pet" package and we'll go from there
<nenolod> nixternal, some aspects of the Debian NM process are not possible for many possibly good applicants to complete
<LaserJock> nixternal: don't use the N word ;-)
<jcastro> other than the fact that there's not enough of you experienced guys out there
<nenolod> nixternal, in many places, it is not easy to get your key signed by another debian developer, for instance
<ajmitch> which directly impacts scalability
<LaserJock> jcastro: I don't know that it's exactly a scaling issue
<nixternal> nenolod: we don't have to do exactly, but the idea is there, that's all I meant
<nxvl> imbrandon: i find it a good idea, since the things y really want to learn is more about the tools, not the packages
<jcastro> do you guys think that dholbach's revisions to the packaging guide have been good?
<jcastro> I know I was overwhelmed with the old one
<LaserJock> jcastro: thanks :-)
<imbrandon> honestly , have you all looked at the debian-maintainer processes ( NOT DD ) , i think it would be PERFECT for universe/upstreams
<nxvl> imbrandon: then i can apply any thing to the package i want :D
<nenolod> imbrandon, debian maintainer process is easy
<LaserJock> imbrandon: kinda yeah
<nenolod> imbrandon, i completed it in 2 days
<nenolod> :D
<imbrandon> nenolod: i'm talking about the new one
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i'm not saying its not easy
<nxvl> imbrandon: you mean NM process?
<imbrandon> i'm saying it limited them to a small subset of packages though, not $archive
<LaserJock> I mean, as has been said before, it's not so much getting people the knowledge
<LaserJock> it seems to be more social issues
<imbrandon> witch could be good to let people in but not give them MOTU right away
<nenolod> imbrandon, that's not true. some debian maintainers maintain 100+ packages in $archive
<jcastro> imbrandon: before I let you get away ... we need more kubuntu MOTUs.
<imbrandon> not without ,DM-Upload-Allowed: set
<LaserJock> like people not caring about uploads, caring about correction, or not following policies
<nenolod> imbrandon, right
<imbrandon> nenolod: 100% of packages dont have that set, infact very few do
<imbrandon> jcastro: i'm on it :)
<jcastro> imbrandon: /win 22
<jcastro> oops!
<nenolod> imbrandon, i know that. mine don't, but i don't need it set anyway
<nixternal> the NM consists of like 5+ steps now...you go through 2 or 3 steps, then you get 3 sets of questions, then there are some more steps...and then upon approval, you are 90 and can't see the monitor anymore :p
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I believe Mark wanted that basically for upstreams, ala beryl
 * RAOF now has a lower limit on jcastro's irssi windows!
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea, and the way debian implmented it looks sane
<LaserJock> nixternal: from what I've heard it isn't that part that is the slow down
<nixternal> LaserJock: it is the initial steps that are the slow down
<LaserJock> nixternal: it's mostly waiting on other people
<nixternal> yup
<nenolod> i don't have time to maintain 100+ packages ;p
<LaserJock> waiting for a DAM, etc.
<LaserJock> that's the stuff we can make fast
<LaserJock> I think looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers is useful
<TheMuso> Re sponsoring, at this point, I co-admin the uus list/queue, and have two mentors. I'd rather not have to do much more in the way of sponsoring, due to the involvements in subj-projects I have.
<nixternal> can we? it seems that doing revu's are pretty slow, merges look slow
<LaserJock> nixternal: it doesn't take years though ;-)
<TheMuso> s/subj-projects/sub-projects/
<nixternal> lol, true
<jcastro> imbrandon: so ... Riddell needs help, he's going to be slammed on kde4, we need to actively push to get more kubuntu people. Can you and nixternal work together? (Hobbsee too!)
<LaserJock> and we're pretty fast with MOTU applications
<TheMuso> s/mentors/pupils/
<nixternal> jcastro: who says I like imbrandon enough to work with him?
<nixternal> :p
<nixternal> forgot Jono's favorite, the winky
<LaserJock> jcastro: no, nixternal is too obsessed with this Foresight fad
<nixternal> damn, I didn't even do a winky
<nenolod> foresight sucks
<nixternal> LaserJock: thanks for selling me out!
<nenolod> i tried that for 2 months
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Perhaps thats another issue. We go through MOTU apps too fast.
<imbrandon> jcastro: sure hehe me and nixternal work good togather ( i was the one whom got him to actual dev instead of bother us in #kubuntu-offtopic lol )
<StevenK> jcastro: But Hobbsee has defected!
<nixternal> so does Ubuntu, but you don't see me screaming that :)
<nenolod> conary started taking 2 hours to process my requests
<nenolod> :D
<jcastro> imbrandon: dude, I like Ken Vandine and Og as much as the next guy, that's no excuse for nixternal
<nixternal> hey now!
<imbrandon> lol
<jcastro> nixternal: conary is pretty sweet.
<nixternal> I will be hanging out with them guys in the next couple of weeks, I will tell them that you called them bloated
<nenolod> conary isn't sweet. it's slow. :P
<nixternal> :D
<nenolod> nixternal, where are you hanging out with those guys?
<nixternal> here in Chicago
<imbrandon> ok wanna see me clear the room of DD's ?
<imbrandon> * i need a sponsord upload to debian please *
<nixternal> lol
<nenolod>  /part
<nixternal> imbrandon: RFS filed? did you send an email to -mentors?
<nenolod> (i'm not a DD, but i'll run away from that anyway)
<imbrandon> nixternal: i'm the maintainer dippy
<nixternal> imbrandon: do what I do, go bug pusling and ana!
<jcastro> nixternal: they spoke at our lug last month, a great bunch of dudes
<StevenK> imbrandon: Do you? That's nice.
<nixternal> they upload all of my stuff, them and Dirk
<Hobbsee> jcastro: my problem with that is that kde4 tends to be big and complex.
<nixternal> jcastro: at BarCamp Chicago, they had a Foresight install server, and I plastered it with Ubuntu/Kubuntu CDs and stickers :)
<nenolod> naoliv uploads stuff on my behalf. though my irc packages i might upload via someone i oper with on a network ;)
<jcastro> Hobbsee: yeah, I hear ya.
<nixternal> Hobbsee: big yes, and only getting more complex because we aren't doing much patching, preparing it for a livecd release :(
<nenolod> i had a bunch of packages recently pass through debian NEW, but the last sync appears to have not picked them up from unstable
<nenolod> >_<
<nixternal> I was willing, and still am willing to do that process...but something happened I guess...so that is why I am elsewhere building KDE 4 packages for a LiveCD
<nxvl> imbrandon: what did you need to upload to debian? i have a friend who is DD
<imbrandon> nxvl: it was a joke really, i will have something in a few hours, but i have a few DD friends too, if they are afk i'll poke ya
<StevenK> imbrandon: I bet you $10 you can't convince ajmitch to upload :-P
<nenolod> i just submit all of my packages to debian first
<nenolod> it simplifies things ;p
<nenolod> it's my trickle-down theory
<imbrandon> StevenK: hahah yea i think i would have a better chance convining you
<nenolod> in action etc ;p
<ajmitch> haha
 * ajmitch is sitting at a sid box right now :)
<nenolod> 'cept, it's not in action atm, because 4 of my packages are debian but missing in launchpad
<bddebian> nenolod: And you actually get shit in to Debian?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: really ? hehe mind sponsoring apt-mirror update in ummm ~1 hour ?
<imbrandon> lol
<nenolod> bddebian, i sure do
<bddebian> You must have an insider then :-)
<ajmitch> in ~1 hour I will be away from my computer, of course
<imbrandon> hehe k
<nenolod> bddebian, as i said "i have naoliv upload on my behalf"
<nenolod> ;p
<StevenK> In ~1 hour I will be away from imbrandon
<imbrandon> hahha
<nxvl> imbrandon: ok, just ping me
 * imbrandon hurries
<bddebian> nenolod: Ah, missed that part
<nenolod> bddebian, you can view my collection of shit^Wpackages at http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=nenolod@sacredspiral.co.uk
<nenolod> bddebian, it's pretty pathetic, i know
<bddebian> Probably larger than my list :)
<nenolod> main (4)
<nenolod> pending (1)
<nenolod> :D
 * StevenK checks his list
 * bddebian wonders if he has any
 * TheMuso should apply to be a DD one day.
<StevenK> main (13)
<StevenK> Oh well, I thought I had less
<nenolod> haha. "Oh well, I thought I had less"
<nenolod> StevenK, many DMs have more packages on their stack than DDs i have noticed
<nenolod> there's one DM that has 40+ packages
<StevenK> nenolod: Yes, because most of them are saying "OH, the more packages I have the less they're going to say no!"
<bddebian> heh
<TheMuso> Thats crazy.
<StevenK> Which is complete fallacy
<LaserJock> wahoo main (1)
<LaserJock> I'm such a loser
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<LaserJock> I do have an ITP though
<LaserJock> StevenK: yes master
<StevenK> *Finally*
<StevenK> LaserJock does listen
 * StevenK chuckles
<LaserJock> you know if you mess with the creative process the result is utter crap
<LaserJock> StevenK: not according to my wife ...
<bddebian> WTF main(8) pending (1)
<StevenK> Muahaha
 * GoldenPony makes pony noises.
<bddebian> Oh, games stuff, heh
 * LaserJock puts GoldenPony down
<StevenK> Hahaha
 * GoldenPony dies bloodily.
<LaserJock> poor girl, it had to be done
<nenolod> StevenK, well, i haven't a chance of becoming a DD anyway
<StevenK> They shoot horses, don't they?
<nenolod> StevenK, the nearest person in debian-keyring is 1250mi away
<nenolod> :D
<StevenK> What about ponies?
<LaserJock> StevenK: same
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> wrong tab...
 * bddebian has no interest in DD anymore
<LaserJock> StevenK: except the use tiny bullets
<StevenK> bddebian: Because of #debian-devel?
<LaserJock> I'm thinking of going for DM
<bddebian> StevenK: That's one big one
<nenolod> StevenK, i'm taking the policy of packaging everything i have written myself for debian, though
<StevenK> Hah
<nenolod> StevenK, because some moron tried to say my ircservices software was GPL3
<StevenK> bddebian: Ignore them, #debian-devel is useless
<nenolod> #debian-devel is trollsville man
<nenolod> ;p
<nenolod> although it is useful for bothering ganneff about killing wrong uploads ;)
 * GoldenPony returns from the dead, mauling LaserJock on the way.
<nenolod> i always love maulings
 * LaserJock whips out his Laser and cuts of GoldenPony's head
<nenolod> (or: omg. ponies. -- your choice)
<LaserJock> *off
<nenolod> you butcher!
 * GoldenPony continues to maul LaserJock... without a head.
<StevenK> LaserJock: "Why don't you and the laser get a frigging room."
 * LaserJock whips out his Laser and cuts off all of GoldenPony's appendages
<LaserJock> StevenK: umm, I already have one
<GoldenPony> I'll bite yer legs off!
<StevenK> LaserJock: It was a quote.
<LaserJock> StevenK: I know
<LaserJock> GoldenPony: come back here you panzy!
<StevenK> It seems like LaserJock likes whipping out his laser.
<GoldenPony> I've had worse!
<LaserJock> StevenK: well, it is pretty impressive
<nenolod> LaserJock, are you chargin' your laser?
<nenolod> ;p
<StevenK> LaserJock: I bet you say that to all the boys
 * GoldenPony has to agree with its impressiveness.
<LaserJock> umm ...
<LaserJock> my laser doesn't even cut through metal, it's not *that* cool
 * GoldenPony is resurrected, then.
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> time to sleep
<nenolod> LaserJock: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Laser if you didn't get it
<nxvl> imbrandon: don't forget to send me the e-mail :D
<nenolod> ;p
<nenolod> (probably NWS)
<nxvl> imbrandon: i'm waiting for it
<ajmitch> such violence in here
<StevenK> It turns out LaserJock like firing at Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies!
<StevenK> *hint*
 * GoldenPony charges at ajmitch.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, what do you expect from an American with a name like LaserJock? :-)
<nenolod> it's LaserJock's redneck^Wrural upbringing
<nenolod> clearly.
 * ajmitch is knocked down
 * GoldenPony stomps on ajmitch.
<nenolod> actually
 * ajmitch dies
<nenolod> from what i have observed
<GoldenPony> So you should.
<nenolod> the general quality of universe is much better than debian/main
<nenolod> at least in the packages i have looked at
<nenolod> ;)
<nenolod> but i'm only interested in Section: sound for the most part
<LaserJock> nenolod: that's good at least
<nenolod> is there a specific team of sound contributors to ubuntu?
<nenolod> i know gentoo has one ;)
<LaserJock> yeah, it's call crimsun
<LaserJock> *called
<bddebian> heh
<nenolod> is that on launchpad? :P
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/~crimsun
<StevenK> Although, not right now
<nenolod> yes right now launchpad is down
<nenolod> :P
<StevenK> For the next 30 minutes or so
 * ajmitch digs up a laptop
<LaserJock> jcastro: you think you're gonna need your flame-proof underwear?
<nixternal> why, you want to borrow them LaserJock?
<jcastro> LaserJock: bring it
<LaserJock> nixternal: not yet
<nixternal> hehe
<ajmitch> LaserJock: is jcastro stirring again?
<LaserJock> jcastro: there might be some webkit fanboys with a voodoo doll with your name on it ;-)
<jcastro> bring it
<StevenK> LaserJock: Commonly known as Apple fanbois
<imbrandon> or apple + kde fanboi's :)
<nixternal> webkit ftw!
<nixternal> ya, I said it!
<RoAkSoAx> hi there! can anyone explain me what is the difference between mergin a package using grab-merge from mom or dad?
<LaserJock> jcastro: but the gecko stuff sucks ;-p
<jcastro> LaserJock: I'll take sucky over "run by apple" any day of the week
<imbrandon> RoAkSoAx: they are the same
<nenolod> i'm not a webkit fanboy, but i think that firefox is a memory leaking piece of shit
<StevenK> jcastro: Does this mean you hate CUPS now, too?
<imbrandon> jcastro: really, atleaste apple contributes back to OSS :)
 * TheMuso finally beats proftpd-dfsg into submission.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Now that you can't upload it.
<RoAkSoAx> imbrandon, thankyou :)
<TheMuso> StevenK: Yeah I know. I am happy to wait however.
<jcastro> StevenK: cups has always sucked, that's no change.
<jcastro> StevenK: thank god for till though, he's a hero
<StevenK> Agreed
<nenolod> apple fanboys are annoying when combined with ubuntu
<LaserJock> jcastro: well, you can have your sucky browser and I'll keep my OS X and we'll call it a draw ;-)
<nenolod> it gets us trash like avant-window-navigator
<nenolod> :D
<jcastro> LaserJock: traitor.
<LaserJock> haha
<nenolod> i don't see what the attraction to AWN is... someone please enlighten me ;p
<LaserJock> OS X is a beautiful OS
<imbrandon> heh you know what REALLY sucks , i cant get $linux to work on my iMac ( well not with X ) but OS X 10.4 works fine [ where $linux == ubuntu > 5.10 , suse, &  fedora ]
<nenolod> answers like "it's like MacOS11!11!11 ROFL!%RT^@%%^PWN" are unacceptable
<nenolod> this is unix, not fisher price
<nenolod> ;p
<LaserJock> lol
 * StevenK burns "Fanboi" into LaserJock's forehead using his own laser
<RAOF> nenolod: Every 10 minutes you use awn, a pony appears in your appartment
<LaserJock> StevenK: hehe
<nenolod> RAOF, every 10 minutes someone uses awn, $deity kills a kitten
<nenolod> =)
<ajmitch> ponies!
<LaserJock> StevenK: I don't know about Fanboi
<imbrandon> nenolod: useability , i personaly find the dock a whole lot better than taskbar+menu
<LaserJock> I just like it
 * ajmitch sits on planet ubuntu & hits reload
<nenolod> imbrandon, fair enough
<LaserJock> OS X is a very productive OS for me
<nenolod> i don't like OS X
<nenolod> it doesn't do what i want
<LaserJock> it could perhaps be more productive for me tha Ubuntu
<nenolod> and it's terminal.app sucks
<nenolod> ;p
 * nixternal seconds nenolod on the OS X stuff
<LaserJock> but Ubuntu has more potential
<ajmitch> productive enough for ponies?
<nixternal> so does DOS :p
<LaserJock> nenolod: terminal.app is special, but it works generally fine
<LaserJock> for me
<nenolod> <insert troll about MS Vista being better than Ubuntu here>
<nixternal> I'm movin' to the country, gonna eat a lot of peaches
<imbrandon> nenolod: +fink +konsole
<nenolod> sorry, i almost couldn't hit enter on that last line without vomiting
<nenolod> ;p
<StevenK> imbrandon: Konsole isn't an improvement
<nixternal> Vista is better than Ubuntu hands down, the rest are just mortals compared to Kubuntu :p
<nenolod> hey! i like gnome 2.20!
<nenolod> i'm shocked that i like it, but i do
<nenolod> especially considering that i have disliked every gnome2 release since 2.8
<imbrandon> StevenK: over terminal.app it is
<nixternal> hehe, I have been trying to use it more and more on my desktop
<nenolod> terminal.app is worthless
<nixternal> millions of peaches, peaches for me, millions of peaches, peaches for free!
<TheMuso> Has there been any other GUI besides the Mac OSs that have put the menu bar at the top of the screen, separate from the windows?
<nenolod> it's just enough of a terminal to make MacOS fanbois go "lol unix"
<RAOF> nixternal: mmmmmm, peaches.  Peaches crushed under the golden hooves of a million shiny ponies.
<nenolod> TheMuso, Next and AmigaOS did something similar.
<nixternal> RAOF: works for me :)
<TheMuso> nenolod: Right.
<ajmitch> RAOF: shiny, golden ponies?
<imbrandon> TheMuso: Next
<RAOF> ajmitch: Glistening in the summer sunset.
<LaserJock> oh my gosh, if I see "ponies" one more time I think I'm gonna puke
<nenolod> "ponies"
<nixternal> P O N I E S ! ! !
 * nenolod hands LaserJock a bucket
<TheMuso> IMO it seems to be a strange idea.
<imbrandon> poniez ?
 * LaserJock runs for the bathroom
<nenolod> TheMuso, i agree
<nixternal> LaserJock: be careful, there is a pony in your bathroom!
<RAOF> I'd quite like to try it, but I don't have a mac handy.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: its to save screen realestate back int he 800x600 and lower days
<nenolod> RAOF, http://www.thepiratebay.com
<imbrandon> RAOF: OSx86
<TheMuso> imbrandon: heh and to confuse one as to whether an app was still open
<nenolod> i fully support using OSX86 if your goal is to learn just how bad MacOS really is
<RAOF> TheMuso: That's simple.  Apps are never closed, merely waiting :)
<nenolod> ;)
 * nixternal hears black helicoptors hovering over the house...someone said the P Bay word
 * TheMuso still has OS X installed on his mini, but has no use for it.
<imbrandon> RAOF: exactly
<RAOF> An idea that I heartily approve of.
 * ajmitch still has windows XP installed on his laptop
<imbrandon> KDE does the same thing for some apps , e.g. konqueror
<TheMuso> I really should remove it, and juse Linux on the entire drive.
<imbrandon> juse, cool word, just+use? hehe
<nenolod> i don't use my mac anymore
<nenolod> because snd-aoa is borked on it
<nenolod> :D
<nenolod> maybe it'll be fixed in hardy
<imbrandon> i dont use mine anymore either, my 6 year old does, although i might put her togather a chap x86 and use the ppc for a buildd
<nenolod> :P
<nenolod> my ppc is a buildd for backports.dereferenced.org
<nenolod> ;p
 * TheMuso will eventually use OS X when he starts developing cross-platform audio games.
<bddebian> audio game?
<imbrandon> mpg123
<TheMuso> bddebian: Yeah. Games that only use sound for gameplay.
<imbrandon> :)
<nenolod> sounds demoscene
<bddebian> Never heard of such a thing :-)
<TheMuso> bddebian: Thats because they are really only known in the blind community.
<nenolod> TheMuso is blind? :P
<bddebian> Ah yes, makes sense
<TheMuso> nenolod: I have a vision impairement, yes.
<nenolod> TheMuso, ah ok
<imbrandon> hrm you know if the internet was really made popular by porn you would think linux would be the uber OS , because you can surf pron all day long and not get a windows based virus
<TheMuso> nenolod: I can enjoy visual games to an extent, but totally blind people only have games that are only in sound.
<jcastro> LaserJock: you were right, the maclots are on me already
<StevenK> jcastro: They've already posted comments?
<jcastro> StevenK: yep
<LaserJock> jcastro: maybe I'll go do one
<jcastro> StevenK: I've learned that no matter how fringe, extremist, or insane the linux community can be ... that the mac people are worse.
<imbrandon> jcastro: what about peoplke that are members of both :)
<StevenK> jcastro: Try BSD? :-P
<LaserJock> "OMG, OS X rulz!! Safari is from god you idiot! What is this webkit stuff you speak of?"
<jcastro> imbrandon: dude, don't make me drive out there and punch you.
<imbrandon> jcastro: hahahaha
 * StevenK beats LaserJock with GoldenPony
<imbrandon> LaserJock: wow thats like the perfect quote
<jcastro> StevenK: well, I'm not concerned about the whole 6 BSD users. :p
<nenolod> TheMuso, ah ok :)
<StevenK> Dear. :-P
<imbrandon> yea i think the BSD versioning is based on useage e.g 6.2 users 7 in beta
<nixternal> there are 8 including me!
<imbrandon> .2 is RMS, he has a sekrit shell on ftp.cdrom.com
<StevenK> The OpenBSD versioning is based on how many people in the whole world don't think Theo de Raadt is an arsehole
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> well, if that is the case, then it is back to 7
<LaserJock> well, Gentoo is the best OS anyway so the debate is mute
<TheMuso> rofl
<ajmitch> gentoo? what's that?
<imbrandon> emerge LaserRock
<LaserJock> ajmitch: a file manager
<ajmitch> ah right
<imbrandon> iirc its a clone of emacs in vim mode
<LaserJock> I wonder how many people read the Debian New Maintainer Guide and are "what the heck? is this Debian or Gentoo?"
<bddebian> pfft GNU/Hurd rulez j00! ;-P
<LaserJock> bddebian: if you can boot it
<bddebian> I boot it on 5 machines :-)
<imbrandon> bddebian: pfft debian/hurd dosent have an installer
<bddebian> Sure we do
<imbrandon> ?
<nenolod> hurd sucks
<nenolod> ;p
<imbrandon> the last time i looked at the page it mentioned installing normaly and bootstrapping the hurd install
<imbrandon> i was like ummm yea , 1996 called
<bddebian> You can do that or use an iso.  Albeit the installer sucks
 * imbrandon ducks
<imbrandon> then again i have a ReactOS install too, that cant be much better
<nenolod> innit the hurd installer that is still based on bootfloppies-2.4
 * highvoltage didn't even realise the hurd has an installer
 * LaserJock smakes nixternal 
<nixternal> smakes?
<LaserJock> whatever
<highvoltage> smacks.
<LaserJock> *smacks
 * nixternal cmakes LaserJock 
<imbrandon> like cmake only harder
<nixternal> cmake FTW anyways
 * bddebian casts scons
<nixternal> haha
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> run away!!
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder if we could ever convice everyone to use cmake ?
<LaserJock> everyone?
<nixternal> imbrandon: no, because the other side thinks it is evil
<imbrandon> e.g. non-qt/kde apps
<LaserJock> not until it has more features
<nixternal> it has more than enough features, just need to know how to use the .cmakeArgs
<LaserJock> it was causing me consternation because it doesn't handle convenience libs
<nixternal> such as?
<LaserJock> hmm?
<nixternal> nevermind that :) I looked past *convenience* on that
<LaserJock> http://www.cmake.org/Wiki/CMake_FAQ#Does_CMake_support_.22convenience.22_libraries.3F
<nenolod> cmake sucks
<nenolod> you can convince me to use cmake by making it not suck
<LaserJock> I love the colors and progress indication though
<nixternal> opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one..and some people have 2
 * LaserJock briefly wonders how that works
<LaserJock> and moves on
<nixternal> LaserJock: dunno, but I am guessing it can get messy
<nenolod> nixternal, cmake is C++. that's strike 1.
<nenolod> buildtools shouldn't break if libstdc++ ABI breaks
<nixternal> ahh, an anti-c++ person...
 * nixternal puts his blinds up
<StevenK> However, cmake isn't autotools, so +1
<nenolod> i'm not anti-c++
<nixternal> if you weren't, then it wouldn't have been a strike, possibly a ball?
<nenolod> nixternal: i just want buildtools which can survive libstdc++ transitions
<nenolod> autotools sucks worse than cmake, but cmake becomes instantly disqualified due to it's dependence on STL
<nenolod> basically, put, if everything used CMake and g++ guys bumped SONAME on libstdc++, then CMake would have to be rebuilt before anything else
<nenolod> and that's my issue with cmake
<imbrandon> nenolod: and thats a strike?
<nenolod> imbrandon, it's more like a strikeout
<nenolod> ;p
<imbrandon> i would want bits of my toolchain updated if needbe
<imbrandon> and cmake is one of the bits of my toolchain, so not an issue
<nenolod> imbrandon, my point is that the advantages and disadvantages of using cmake are still unclear to me
<nenolod> i will see how it pans out
<nenolod> ;p
<imbrandon> thats like saying , if the kernel updates you need a new initramfs , so lets not use initramfs
<imbrandon> :P
<bddebian> Ah well, gnight gang
<imbrandon> gnight bd
<imbrandon> bddebian: *
 * ajmitch needs a faster laptop
<LaserJock> pfft
<imbrandon> i just need a laptop peroid
<imbrandon> hehe
<nixternal> I want a new one
 * LaserJock pulls out his ClassmatePC and scrunches his fingers
<nixternal> I don't know if I want a smaller screen or a larger screen though
<jcastro> imbrandon: what size you looking for?
<imbrandon> jcastro: anything, i've been using a p200mhz desktop for 2 months now ( but an eeepc is on my wishlist )
<jcastro> imbrandon: so, a small one, like, 12 inches?
<imbrandon> yea
<jcastro> or do you want an xbox sized one?
<jcastro> imbrandon: you want an hp 2510p
<nixternal> imbrandon: my buddy just got an eee and is showing it off in ubuntu-chicago..that thing is farkin' sweet... imbrandon check the pic links in #kubuntu-devel that I posted
<imbrandon> hahah , nah the smaller the better imho
 * TheMuso didn't realise that MoM depends on lp.
 * StevenK waits for Launchpad
<jcastro> imbrandon: matthew garrett approved.
<imbrandon> hp2510p ?
<StevenK> jcastro: For what?
 * imbrandon looks it up
<StevenK> Oh, of the laptop
<jcastro> right
<nixternal> 2510 is a good linux lappy
<ajmitch> TheMuso: sure, I think it relies on the librarian amongst other things
<nixternal> all but wifi works out of the box, and I believe you have to use ndiswrapper with it
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Why wouldn't it? That's where it gets everything. $world depends on LP.
<StevenK> jcastro: Was that the one he was using at UDS/FossCamp?
<jcastro> imbrandon: led backlight, 1280 x whatever screen
<jcastro> StevenK: yep
<imbrandon> nice
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I thought it didn't. Oh well.
<jcastro> 5+ hours of battery
 * ajmitch tries to make sense of the last message on -devel-discuss
<imbrandon> jcastro: under 1.5K ?
<StevenK> jcastro: Ahh. I heard him talking about it's ACPI and device tables
<Fujitsu> ubuntu!
<jcastro> imbrandon: I maxed mine out at $1600
<imbrandon> nice i'm on the hp site now
<StevenK> I wonder if jono has killed Sony yet
<jcastro> imbrandon: 2510p is the thing to search for
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you even try?
<jcastro> StevenK: his keyboard is dead
<imbrandon> http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/321957-321957-64295-321838-306995-3355633.html
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I blinked & went "huh?"
<StevenK> jcastro: I'm well aware, which is why I'm wondering
<jcastro> imbrandon: that's the one.
<jcastro> imbrandon: fair disclosure: it's not working well in gutsy
<imbrandon> 64 GB Solid State Drive  !!!!!!!!
<imbrandon> sold
<StevenK> Heh
<Fujitsu> Sound expensive.
<Fujitsu> +s
<LaserJock> ajmitch: the one with the excellent title of "ubuntu"?
<jcastro> imbrandon: but, it's nice to have the same laptop as mjg59
<imbrandon> true
<jcastro> imbrandon: I was a thinkpad whore before. But unfortunately the X61 still came with a 1024x768 screen
<LaserJock> jcastro: unless it's his "hmm, how the heck can I get this to work?" box ;-)
<imbrandon> 2gb of ram + 64GB ssd, and stock everything else, yea i'm sold next payday
<jcastro> LaserJock: it isn't, he had an x40 before like me
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yep
<jcastro> LaserJock: I was actually relieved when he told me he had this hp, it validated my laptop-choosing process
 * StevenK hugs his X40
<jcastro> imbrandon: you can even get it with freedos instead of windows. Not an ubuntu preinstall, but still a nice option
 * TheMuso hugs his R50.
<LaserJock> jcastro: hmm, mine is "find the cheapest thing you can find at the moment you have the money for it"
<imbrandon> jcastro: i noticed
 * LaserJock tosses his Toshiba piece of junk
<jcastro> LaserJock: find your closest hp dealer
<jcastro> you need two keywords
<jcastro> "debian" and "ubuntu"
<LaserJock> jcastro: I have an HP desktop that I'm not very happy with
<LaserJock> I had a PS fan go bad
<jcastro> consumer grade or the real stuff?
<LaserJock> and they made me sent the whole machine back
<LaserJock> and the formated my hard drive
<LaserJock> for a freaking PS fan
<LaserJock> it's actually cause it had Ubuntu on it
<LaserJock> the made it "factory new"
<Fujitsu> Ubuntu kills your desktop power supply!
<LaserJock> idiots
<imbrandon> jcastro: did you get the ssd ?
<LaserJock> jcastro: umm, it was from walmart
<LaserJock> hence the "cheapest thing I can find at the moment I had the money"
<jcastro> LaserJock: oh, that's why
<LaserJock> yeah yeah
<jcastro> imbrandon: no, it wasn't an option when I buyed it
<StevenK> Don't buy computers from WalMart
<LaserJock> now I was looking for a manual for the motherboard
<jcastro> imbrandon: I stupidly bought a generic ssd from newegg
<jcastro> which didn't fit
<LaserJock> but come to find out that it doesn't exist
<imbrandon> heh
<jcastro> so I am putting that in the desktop instead
<LaserJock> so I can't figure out the pins for the front panel stuff
<LaserJock> StevenK: it's hard not to sometimes. I like seeing what I'm getting usually
<jcastro> LaserJock: yeah there's a real difference between normal consumer-grade and business-grade
<imbrandon> StevenK: unless its a gOS , walmart sells ubuntu hehe
<jcastro> at oakland I bought all hp business-grade stuff, and it was rock solid
<StevenK> I agree with jcastro
<LaserJock> I kinda dislike buying $1000+ items off the net without even seeing one first
<jcastro> you can buy it all with debian too
<jcastro> so you know it works in ubuntu
<StevenK> For example, with the X40, you can *tell* it it isn't a consumer grade device
<jcastro> and server side, the proliants are just ruthless
<StevenK> jcastro: Ubuntu/Canonical should know :-)
<LaserJock> are compaq computers better or worse than HP?
<jcastro> StevenK: yeah, first thing I asked elmo
<imbrandon> i've always liked the dell servers better than HP's
<nixternal> LaserJock: pretty much the same
<jcastro> I was like "dude, I know you're an hp shop, right?"
<nixternal> I am a Compaq fan..Carley did a ton for that company
<StevenK> jcastro: Last job, I tried to get HP, but I was turned down.
<jcastro> LaserJock: the hp stuff tends to be their business line, compaq is more of the stuff you find at best buy
<nixternal> yup, unless we are talking DL380s or DL360s
<StevenK> jcastro: Not because of the hardware - but because HP outsourced their support in .au and it's *SHITE*
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> for me it was easy
<StevenK> The UK and US have real life HP people
<jcastro> hp tests all their stuff internally on debian (yay bdale!), so the choice was easy for ubuntu servers
 * nixternal used to work for HP as a real life person
<nixternal> in good ol' Hotlanta
<jcastro> StevenK: my only beef is that stupid torx thing ...
<jcastro> granted, they provide the tool
<nixternal> jcastro: you need a torx bit for hp/compaq?
<jcastro> but still ... grr...
<nixternal> hehe, you got one already...I have about 100 of them
<jcastro> nixternal: for some things, most of it is screwless
<StevenK> jcastro: Sorry, I don't recognise that beef - can you expand a little?
<jcastro> each server comes with a full torx kit
<jcastro> still, a pain in the ass
<LaserJock> unfortunately my uni only does Dell and Apple, I can get decent discounts
<nixternal> I was amazed with this laptop, when i went to upgrade the ram, it was a philips screw
<jcastro> StevenK: there's a screw called torx, it's a six sided head, not like philips or flathead
<jcastro> hp uses it alot internally
<StevenK> jcastro: I know that bit
<jcastro> they include the tool
<jcastro> it's just weird having to use torx
<jcastro> no one else does
<StevenK> Ah
<StevenK> Compaq used to
<StevenK> Maybe that's why HP targetted them
<jcastro> yeah, they inherited it from compaq
<imbrandon> jcastro: compaq and MS use it
<StevenK> "They're using our bit! Get them!"
<jcastro> like, I dig that they include the tool
<jcastro> but dang ... retire it already
<imbrandon> XBox and XBox 360 both use torx
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> t10 and t20 sizes
<StevenK> jcastro: You'd just prefer Phillips head?
<jcastro> of note: I have friends that swear by torx because they don't strip, so to each their own
<jcastro> StevenK: to be honest I like the snap on jobs that require no tools
 * Fujitsu wonders what broke the LP upgrade this time.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: gets a bit tiring doesn't it
<StevenK> jcastro: Yeah. The servers we ended up buying were Dell, and they are screwless, which is nice
<jcastro> man, for the longest time, dell didn't have snap on rails
<jcastro> god, that was so painful
<jcastro> and compaq/hp had them forever
<StevenK> Oh, don't talk about rails and Dell
<jcastro> oh, I went there!
<TheMuso> Until the clips break.
 * imbrandon loves PERC 5/i controlers , it got GSI to move to ubuntu vs centos
<StevenK> jcastro: The head of Engeering is *old school*, and the Dell rails don't fit with the configuration of the racks
<jcastro> imbrandon: PERC as in ... Pray Everything Rebuilds Correctly?
<imbrandon> jcastro: haha PERC controlers have saved my ass many times
<jcastro> imbrandon: dude, those things have fucked me over just as many
<imbrandon> i would be the 3/i and below sucked
<imbrandon> 4 is ok, but 5 rocks
<jcastro> StevenK: yep, had the same problems
<jcastro> except I had students try to make them fit
<jcastro> bendy city
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> suprised they dident just shelf them
<jcastro> well, in the end, we piled them on a bunch of tables
<StevenK> jcastro: Hah. The head of eng. made them fit - by taking them home and attacking them with his tool box
<imbrandon> LOL
<jcastro> before I left my .edu job we did a huge purchase order for some hp ltsp servers
<jcastro> 2U, 32gb of ram, dual quads
<imbrandon> try fitting standard rackmount stuff on a telco rack , thats painfull
<imbrandon> jcastro: yea we had about 1000 of those only dell
<jcastro> they're rocking with ltsp load balancing now
<jcastro> pure sex
<imbrandon> 2u 32GB or 64GB ram 4 or 8 core
<imbrandon> vmware esx servers is what we used them for
<jcastro> dude you check the blades out?
<imbrandon> with san storage
<jcastro> you can get 32gb of ram on a half heigh blade these days
<jcastro> it's ridiculous
<imbrandon> yup
<StevenK> Oh yes
<siretart> morning
<StevenK> I think HP pack RAM in like luggage - two DIMMs to every slot
<imbrandon> heya siretart
<LaserJock> man, you guys make me jelous
<jcastro> \o/ siretart!!!
<LaserJock> I've never even seen a real life rack-mounted server
<StevenK> LaserJock: Please be kidding
<LaserJock> I'm serious
 * siretart noticed that 1GB ram for my thinkpad is available for around EUR 20
<LaserJock> we have clusters
<jcastro> LaserJock: you're not missing much. Just more work....
<LaserJock> but they are 15-20 regular boxes stacked on shelfs
<imbrandon> LaserJock: with customers like BurgerKing , Microsoft, CokeCola etc, money for servers isnt a big deal hehe
<StevenK> % free -m | head -n 2 | tail -n 1
<StevenK> Mem:         48864      47597       1267          0       4236      34310
<jcastro> LaserJock: man, you'd dig this.
<jcastro> LaserJock: so like, I was hire at my last job to bring in linux
<jcastro> at oakland.edu
<jcastro> The day after
<LaserJock> yeah
<jcastro> like, on the dot
<jcastro> exact day
<jcastro> Sun walks in
<siretart> btw, did anyone see my reply to imbrandon on the ubuntuwire list?
<jcastro> and promises our engineering departmen like $75k worth of hardware
<jcastro> to move back to solaris
<imbrandon> siretart: yup, i just havent replied yet, i think the TOS idea was great
<StevenK> jcastro: *Geeeez*
<LaserJock> jcastro: heh
<jcastro> including (this is the best)
<jcastro> replacing each LTSP client with a sun ray
<StevenK> Hah!
<jcastro> Note: we gave 300 sunrays to charity the year before to charity
<siretart> imbrandon: TOS?
<StevenK> I'm a charity can I have one?
<siretart> the bug workflow, or the virtualisation?
 * StevenK chuckles
<jcastro> wow, shitty english on my part
<imbrandon> siretart: dump
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<imbrandon> dmup*
<jcastro> StevenK: worthless, you can't reverse engineer them
<siretart> hey ajmitch!
<imbrandon> heh
<siretart> imbrandon: aah, I see
<siretart> jcastro: we use sunrays at our department
<siretart> running debian/lenny
<StevenK> jcastro: I don't want to reverse engineer them, I want to run Ubuntu on it. :-)
<imbrandon> brb restarting X
<jcastro> StevenK: they depend on the sun ray server software. It's basically the worst software ever written
<jcastro> I'll send you one though
<jcastro> I used to think I could make them work
<StevenK> I've heard about the Sun Ray server stack
<siretart> http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~simigern/sunray-debian/ <- make sunrays work with debian/ubuntu
<siretart> works like a charm at our department
<jcastro> siretart: got that tshirt a long time ago
<jcastro> we cut our losses and just went ltsp
<siretart> ah
<StevenK> So you can't just have an installation on a Sun Ray, you need a Sun Ray server, too?
<siretart> the sunray server software is indeed a beast, true
<siretart> StevenK: yes. the sunrays run a proprietary firmware, which works with nothing else than the SRSS
<StevenK> Ewww
<jcastro> http://stompbox.typepad.com/blog/2007/11/firefox-apply-d.html#comment-90873188
<jcastro> scroll to the bottom
<siretart> the worst thing about that is that they use a pretty strange x server: Xnewt
<siretart> on solaris, they use 'Xsun', the regular xserver for sun
<jcastro> siretart: yeah, I'll take my chances with ltsp
<siretart> Xnewt is a fork from some ancient version of xorg
<jcastro> yeah
<nixternal> jcastro: wow, less than 1%
<jcastro> man
<nixternal> Asa responded pretty quick
<jcastro> that's just ... sad
<nixternal> jcastro: I wonder though, if that 1% only download FF through the website?
<nixternal> I doubt that covers the FF installed with each distro
<jcastro> nixternal: I was going to follow that up, stand by
<slangasek> wait, so was this not a story about how the bigwigs were suckered in by the dollar signs and went back to Sun, letting jcastro go the day after he was hired?  what a disappointing story, where's the drama?
<StevenK> Hahah
<jcastro> slangasek: that's a lie
<jcastro> who would want to work for sun?
<jcastro> oh wait.
 * nixternal whistles to himself
<StevenK> Hahaha
<nixternal> shush jcastro :p
<jcastro> this is awesome
<StevenK> "Community leader learns to read. Film at 11."
<nixternal> I worked for them bastards when I got out of the military, up to the point where they closed all of the Chicago offices
<jcastro> hey slangasek, you know what I love about sun?
<nixternal> they lay you off by calling you on the phone?
<slangasek> getting a farmer's tan?
<nixternal> that is what I loved about them
<jcastro> haha ... NOTHING.
<StevenK> Personally, I think their rack mounted server look pretty and shiny, but that's about it
<nixternal> the best thing I got out of working there was the free classes
<StevenK> servers, even
<jcastro> StevenK: I tested it
 * nixternal used to swear by their Enterprise servers
<jcastro> StevenK: hp for the win, but a long shot
<nixternal> dude, an E10 with Solaris 2.6 rocked hardcore!
<nixternal> with their amazing top knotch fiber array that broke down like once a month
<StevenK> jcastro: HP for the win, in the pretty and shiny department?
<jcastro> StevenK: it's been rocking for me for 3 years, I'll take that pepsi challenge with anyone on any hardware
<TheMuso> LP seems to be up again...
<imbrandon> apple Xserv for the win in the shiney dept
<StevenK> imbrandon: Fanboi
<StevenK> jcastro: Back up the pretty and shiny with pictures?
 * LaserJock <3 Apple
<imbrandon> heh
<jcastro> ?
<jcastro> StevenK: imbrandon is the fanatic, make him bring up the pics
<imbrandon> you know the bad part? the company i work for is doing an Apple website , and its fskin run on win2k3 server
<StevenK> That'll learn them
<imbrandon> plus the new xserve with quad core 3ghz, and 2.5tb storage in 1U AND is shiny :)
<imbrandon> http://www.apple.com/xserve/
<imbrandon> 2 or 3 of those + an Xsan , w00t /me is in heaven
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I just want something that breaks the 2GHz barrier
<LaserJock> :-)
<imbrandon> got quiet
<nixternal> that it did
<nixternal> of course, leave it to midwesterners to break it :)
<slangasek> to break the quiet?
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> I was starting to fall asleep
<TheMuso> We've all gone to upload crack. :)
<LaserJock> nixternal: <fargo accent> sooo, gettin' a little quiet in here eh?</fargo accent>
<slangasek> I hope you're not implying Fargo is in the Midwest
<LaserJock> seems like it to me
<LaserJock> or is my geography off
<slangasek> blasphemy
 * imbrandon was thinking fargo from eureka
<nixternal> man, I missed Fargo on tv the other night
<nixternal> they say that new moview 'something about land and old men' or something, can possibly be better than fargo
<nixternal> that will be a hard one to beat
<nixternal> fargo is in the midwest
<nixternal> and oddly enough, so is ohio
<LaserJock> well, it's East for me
<LaserJock> anything east of the rockies is "back east" for me
<nixternal> hah
<slangasek> Fargo's in the Great Plains and Ohio is in the Mideast :-P
<LaserJock> "you goin' back east I hear", "yeah, Chicago"
<LaserJock> Denver is about as far east as you can go and still be West
<nenolod> lies
<nixternal> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Census_Regions_and_Divisions.PNG
<nixternal> that shows ND in the midwest
 * slangasek scoffs at the census
<nixternal> lol
<imbrandon> i'm smack in the middle so no one can doubt me
<imbrandon> :)
<slangasek> that's just because there aren't enough people in ND to deserve their own census office
<LaserJock> slangasek: pfft, there are plenty of people in ND
<imbrandon> slangasek: there are people in ND ?
<slangasek> haha
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> shesh, I'm from Montana, ND has loads of people
<nixternal> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US_map-Midwest.PNG
<LaserJock> Wyoming is a little light on people, but ND has plenty
<nixternal> now if you follow the real midwest map, then Fargo can be considered the midwest, but slangasek is correct about the great plains instead
<nixternal> dark red states == midwest, striped states != midwest except by the census
<LaserJock> whatever
<LaserJock> he's been doing some kind of Debian crack that messes with your geographic senses
 * slangasek lights a pipe shaped like Idaho
<LaserJock> nice
<nenolod> a good pipe for craq
<nenolod> however, i'd say one shaped like utah might be better!
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> shaped like idao
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> uh oh, time for bed
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
 * dholbach hugs LaserJock
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<dholbach> . o O { LaserRock }
<imbrandon> ello dholbach
<LaserJock> hehe
<dholbach> heya imbrandon
 * slangasek offers dholbach a pipe shaped like Nordrhein-Holstein in greeting
<slangasek> (there, /now/ my geography's screwed up)
<dholbach> slangasek: a pipe? Nordrhein-Westfalen? Schleswig-Holstein?
<slangasek> dholbach: yes
<LaserJock> nixternal: I wonder what would happen if I "fixed" that wikipedia map
<dholbach> slangasek: you're the second guy on the internet to surprise me with unexpected german geography knowledge :)
<LaserJock> clearly somebody from New York or something made that figure
<nixternal> LaserJock: you would have a bunch of 13 year olds with PhD's coming after you
<slangasek> LaserJock: I'm from Iowa and I agree with it, so boogers to you
<dholbach> the first one was cjwatson who knew off the top of his head in which part of germany a city was
<slytherin> TheMuso: is it ok to file ppc specific bugs in launchpad considering that it is not officially supported platform?
<LaserJock> slangasek: clearly you're lacking objectivity then ;-p
<slangasek> oh yes, New Yorkers and Iowans are both underqualified to define the Midwest, better leave that to the people from Montana :)
<imbrandon> slytherin: i woudl say so and subscribe the ubuntu-powerpc team ( not assign )
<LaserJock> slangasek: darn tootin'
<slytherin> imbrandon: ok
<slangasek> dholbach: heh, I expect cjwatson's knowledge of German geography handily exceeds mine
<slytherin> imbrandon: any idea why openoffice.org is not on PPC Alternate CD?
<LaserJock> ok, off to be for reals
<TheMuso> slytherin: For gutsy?
 * LaserJock out
<dholbach> slangasek: still... surprising, somehow I wouldn't expect anybody but germans and french germans (like seb128) to know
<slytherin> TheMuso: yes
<TheMuso> interesting.
<TheMuso> I dunno why.
<imbrandon> slytherin: no idea that it wasent
<imbrandon> personaly my ppc is cli only ( the one that dosent run OSX )
<TheMuso> My mini is currently cli, due to bad ATI driver breakage.
<TheMuso> Or OS X.
<slytherin> TheMuso: imbrandon: only openoffice.org-core and -human are there. there is no calc, writer, impress
<slytherin> Check http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/metapackages/ubuntu-desktop
<imbrandon> slytherin: might have been a oversize issue, but i couldent see that as going first
<TheMuso> slytherin: COuld have been build/dependency issues.
<slytherin> oversize might not be an issue, the CD is only 630 MB if I remember correctly
<imbrandon> if it was a LTS i would say we could fix it for a .1 but likely since its a ( low ) community only port it will probably have to wait for hardy
<imbrandon> but i would still be interested in seeing why it happend
<slytherin> I don't mind waiting for hardy. as of now gutsy is running fine on my ibook except there is no sound and no openoffice
<imbrandon> speaking of , anyone know if there is going to be a pre-hardy 6.06.2 ? ( i doubt it just asking )
<TheMuso> Dunno.
<nenolod> <LaserJock> nixternal: I wonder what would happen if I "fixed" that wikipedia map / <nixternal> LaserJock: you would have a bunch of 13 year olds with PhD's coming after you
<nenolod> haha yes
<nenolod> :D
<slytherin> I will just file bug about openoffice.org
<nixternal> hehe, someone remembers that story :)
<TheMuso> slytherin: What was the ppc specific bg you were going to file?
<slytherin> TheMuso: one is related to openoffice.org being absent and another is that there is no sound. previous laptop testing reports indicate that my ibook should have sound. looks like alsa is not set properly and can not detect sound card or create a device for it.
<imbrandon> ugh is there an easy way to search ITP/RFP bugs ?
<imbrandon> ( debian )
<nenolod> imbrandon, they are all packaged in wnpp
<nenolod> ;p
<TheMuso> slytherin: Oh ok. Well both those are somewhat out of my field of expertise. :)
<TheMuso> Particularly the sound one.
<slytherin> TheMuso: I will not file the sound one immediately because I don't have internet at home as of now. so I won't be able to provide enough information on that.
<TheMuso> slytherin: ok
<slytherin> TheMuso: have you decided anything about forming new team / reviving old team of ppc?
<TheMuso> slytherin: No, as you are the only person who's contacted me so far.
<slytherin> he he
<imbrandon> and me, but i dont count :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Of course you do.
<slytherin> is there any java implementatio0n on PPC?
<imbrandon> blackdown ( and iirc others )
<slytherin> what about gcj/gij?
<imbrandon> sure
<slangasek> yes, but that's not really a java implementation, we just pretended it was in order to get Sun to release icedtea ;)
<imbrandon> :)
<slytherin> slangasek: icedtea is not available for ppc. and apart from that not all of the icedtea is from sun
<slytherin> Ok. I thought openoffice.org-base was culprit due to it's dependency on some java. but seeing that gcj/gij is available I don't think that should be a dependency problem in including OOo in PPC cd
<imbrandon> is it installable after the initial install
<imbrandon> ( oo.o )
<slytherin> imbrandon: I don't have net connection at home. :-( So now I am taking individual packages from office. It is going to be pain.
<imbrandon> i say we port the GEOS Desktop from the C64 and use BASIC to make an office suite :)
<slytherin> LOL
<dholbach> superm1: ipod-convenience can be uploaded (as a MOTU you need one ACK only)
<nenolod> imbrandon, best plan evar.
<superm1> dholbach, yeah i uploaded it right after imbrandon acked it
<dholbach> rock on
 * dholbach archives
<imbrandon> StevenK: where does "bts" look for my email address and smtp server, it just says from the "devscripts configuration" , i wasent aware devscripts had any configuration
<dholbach> I added a "NEW packages section" to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReportingPage
<jussi01> could someone tell me how to get svn integration with eclipse?
<superm1> dholbach, okay i added my other NEW ones that i remember offhand
<dholbach> superm1: super! :)
<dholbach> the last motu team report looked great
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/November2007
<superm1> whoops it looks like some of the ones i am remembering were on that report, i'll fix that in a moment
<dholbach> superm1: I copied names from the "REVU: ..." mails on ubuntu-motu@
<dholbach> that was the only thing I could trac
<dholbach> k
<dholbach> I think that'S going to be interesting to users reading about what's going on in MOTU land
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> so feel free to add stuff to MOTU/ReportingPage
<proppy> hi
<superm1> how do you make the same man page be used for multiple binaries?
<superm1> other then fancy symbolic linking
<soren> Why do you find symlinks inappropriate?
<superm1> well i guess they would be appropriate, then?
<superm1> i wasn't sure what the "proper" solution was
<persia> superm1: symlinks are preferred, but also list all the binaries in the manpage.
<soren> $ find /usr/share/man -type l | wc -l
<soren> 467
<superm1> okay :)
<soren> It looks pretty common.
<persia> superm1: Take a look at the dpkg package.  It does that, and it typically a good example of how dpkg likes things to be done.
<persia> s/it typ/is typ/
<superm1> okay will do
 * dholbach hugs persia
<persia> dholbach: What did I do now?
<dholbach> persia: hehe... you make it sound like I punished you :-)
<dholbach> but no... you added the note to the merging page
<dholbach> that was a great idea
<persia> dholbach: Ah, that.  Yes: there needs to be good docs, as you say (and the current text needs work to make it appropriate for those who can upload themselves), but we also need to not push them to new people.  It seemed like the best balance.
<dholbach> yeah
<persia> I'm wondering if we oughtn't do that for a few more of the instructions pages, and encourage some of those willing to help with documentation instructions to subscribe.
<dholbach> let's see how it works out in this case
<persia> Is it possible to create a category for "MOTU Q&A" (or whatever), and then have interested parties subscribe to all pages in the category?
<persia> Sure: I'm not in a rush, more I'd like to understand the nature of MoinMoin before proposing something if it does work.
<dholbach> hm, with a particular namespace it'd work definitely
 * proppy hugs dholbach persia
<dholbach> :-)
 * dholbach hugs proppy back
<persia> hey proppy
<huats> hello everyone
<s1024kb> \sh: hello
<s1024kb> \sh: had been waiting for you for quite a while on jabber...
<superm1> alright guys, i've got another package up on revu if another MOTU would like to take a glance: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=nuvexport
<TheMuso> superm1: I'm on it.
<imbrandon> i would but i'm off to sleep
<superm1> thanks TheMuso
<imbrandon> gnight all , eat lots of turkey today
<Ng> what's the process for getting thing in -backports? the xine 1.1.8 backport in gutsy makes libxine-xvdr uninstallable if one uses -backports
<Ng> so i guess we need to rebuild against the new xine
<superm1> Ng, file a bug against the gutsy-backports project
<dholbach> Ng: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<superm1> and if you can, do a test build and attach the build log
<superm1> or use dholbach's handy URL :)
<dholbach> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#head-37a793d5ee480081f1c9f19e07fcdcdae5e6a9ed
<Ng> ta
<dholbach> why isn't this on the ubuntu wiki? GRRR
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportRequestProcess is a two-step redirect now
<dholbach> sorry for being a wiki fascist, that seems to have come with the last things I've worked on :)
<Ng> hehe
<proppy> dholbach: sad that you can't really bzr revert the wiki page :)
<proppy> maybe you should give http://ikiwiki.info/ a try
<proppy> and add bzr support to it :)
<dholbach> I'm not likely to transfer all of our Moin wiki to ikiwiki :)
<dholbach> I have other fish to fry :)
<s1024kb> maiatoday: hey girl, have been waiting for you. how's your progress?
<maiatoday> not too fast I'm afraid
<TheMuso> superm1: In the files, I see author as xris. Is that a substitution or something, or the nickname of the author?
<superm1> TheMuso, that is his nickname
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> The only concern I have is that that is not made clear, so far as I have yet found.
<s1024kb> maiatoday: me too, actually i guess it's the same situation of we beginners. but never mind, we will make it sooner or later.
<superm1> TheMuso, i'll add a little (xris) to debian/copyright to clarify that
<superm1> next to his name
<TheMuso> superm1: Ok, I think that would be prudent.
<s1024kb> maiatoday: see, me teacher comes in.
<norsetto> <insert your preferred greeting here>
<s1024kb> norsetto: hello my teacher.
<norsetto> s1024kb: hi there, I've seen your email
<norsetto> s1024kb: did you clarify it already?
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes, and today you will have one more student - my friend maia. :)
<maiatoday> hi norsetto
<s1024kb> norsetto: not yet, still waiting for \sh...
<norsetto> hello maiatoday, nice to meet you
<luisbg_> hello s1024kb =)
<norsetto> s1024kb: well, no need to talk with \sh, that bug is an old bug for an old merge
<s1024kb> luisbg_:hello, so happy that everyone is here...
<s1024kb> norsetto: so i should report a new one?
<luisbg_> hey superm1, how is all?
<superm1> luisbg, pretty good
<maiatoday> :) I read some of the links s1024kb forwarded to me, I have installed all tools (i think) now I have to try to get my head around pbuilder
<superm1> but i should have been in bed hours ago
<superm1> :)
<norsetto> s1024kb: yes, next time please check the status; do you see the status on that bug?
<TheMuso> superm1: I was gonna say, you're up late.
<norsetto> maiatoday: good
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes...
<maiatoday> then when I've done that perhaps a bit of mentoring for my first task:)
<superm1> TheMuso, yeah i got caught up on packaging this while waiting for a transcode to finish and see how well it worked
<TheMuso> superm1: Technically, it all looks fine.
<s1024kb> maiatoday: we share our progress, so i am sure we will make it together.
<norsetto> maiatoday: I think the best for you would be to coordinate as much as you can with s1024kb
<superm1> TheMuso, okay good to go then?
<s1024kb> norsetto: thanks my teacher, that's why i bring her here, :)
<TheMuso> superm1: Yeah, looks good.
<norsetto> maiatoday: in the west we say that "two heads think better than one" ;-)
<luisbg_> even TheMuso is here!
<luisbg_> wow!!
<superm1> okay thanks, i'll push and hit the hay
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes, i had said the same in my mail to maia, haha. :)
<s1024kb> norsetto: by the way my teacher, should i report a new bug of yappy now?
<norsetto> s1024kb: ok, please try to help maiatoday, by helping her you will also help yourself
<norsetto> s1024kb: is the merge done? are you happy with it? If so, yes, you should file the bug now
<s1024kb> norsetto: of course i will my teacher, hey, she is much better than me in programming, i am sure.
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay... wait a moment please. i do it now.
<s1024kb> maiatoday: feel free to ask our nice teacher. :)
<proppy> hi norsetto
<norsetto> heya proppy
<proppy> norsetto: by helping her you will also help yourself
<proppy> I like you style
<proppy> sound like yoda or something
<norsetto> proppy: on which flower are you jumping today, oh restless bee?
<proppy> norsetto: cairo swf backend :)
<proppy> norsetto: #gnash stuff
<proppy> norsetto: + submitting patch to mercurial
<proppy> hope there will be some time for motu stuff as well
<proppy> still waiting for juce upstream to react to my forum post
<proppy> an alternative would be to generate the .so file in the rule file, instead of trying to get the Makefile patched
<norsetto> proppy: why don't you look for some python bugs to fix in the meantime?
<proppy> norsetto: nice advice, let me look if there is some on TODO wiki page
<norsetto> proppy: well, if there isn't, you can do a search yourself
<s1024kb> maiatoday: do you have a jabber account?
<proppy> norsetto: yep let me take a look
<proppy> bug #115589
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115589 in inkscape "inkscape pyxml missing python-xml " [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115589
<proppy> bug #156047
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156047 in python-biopython "import Bio.PDB of python-biopython at gutsy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156047
<norsetto> is there anyone in ubuntu who does ruby specific packaging?
 * proppy resists
<proppy> you retless honey pot
<norsetto> proppy: beg your pardon?
<proppy> I know a DD who do some ruby packaging thing
<proppy> but my guess is that he package his stuff with ruby packaging system (gem)
<proppy> instead of packaging them for debian
<norsetto> proppy: right, I hear there are some "discussions" going on between the debian and ruby communities
<proppy> norsetto: hope this will output a nice ruby policy
<proppy> norsetto: I heard everything is *simple* with ruby ahah
<s1024kb> norsetto: #164477, could be a lot of problems i guess...
<norsetto> bug 164477
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164477 in yappy "Please merge yappy 1.8-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164477
<norsetto> s1024kb: looks good, but you should change this: LP: #134552 to LP: #164477 so that it refers to your bug
<s1024kb> norsetto: haha, okay, done. :)
<norsetto> s1024kb: ok, now set the staus to confirmed and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (they will check if the patch is good and upload it eventually)
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay, done. :)
<\sh> s1024kb, hi...sorry...real work takes my time in the  moment :(
<norsetto> s1024kb: ok, but you should also change the debdiff, not just the description
<s1024kb> \sh: no problem, i am busy like a bee too today with my terrible work.
<proppy> bee bee bee
<s1024kb> maiatoday: oh girl, what's wrong with your connection? :)
<s1024kb> norsetto: but how? i edit my debdiff file on my harddisk and uploaded it again?
<maiatoday> bleargh, adsl + local teleco + rain = problems
<s1024kb> maiatoday: smile, girl, i will write a report of my study for you tonight. you will not miss anything i had learned here.
<norsetto> s1024kb: yes, in this case you can edit your debdiff and upload it again, but usually you should change your source file and redo the debdiff (especially when you add or remove lines)
<norsetto> s1024kb: do you see the menu on the left of the bug report? Its called bug attachments, with that you can remove your old debdiff and add the new one
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay...
 * norsetto feeds the cats
<s1024kb> norsetto: :) i like cats too.
<norsetto> yeah, they are littly furry bastards
<norsetto> s1024kb: let me know when you are finished with that (don't forget to subscribe the sponsors)
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay my teacher, got it all done. :)
<s1024kb> norsetto: subscribe the sponsors?
<norsetto> s1024kb: I said  s1024kb: ok, now set the staus to confirmed and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (they will check if the patch is good and upload it eventually)
<s1024kb> norsetto: had changed the status already. does it mean the work is finished?
<norsetto> s1024kb: subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (they will check if the patch is good and upload it eventually)
<s1024kb> norsetto: sorry, what shall i do now then?
<norsetto> s1024kb: do you see the menu on the left, called "subscribe someone else" ?
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes
<s1024kb> norsetto: opened the page already
<s1024kb> norsetto: shall i fill in something?
<norsetto> s1024kb: insert ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<s1024kb> norsetto: and click "add"?
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay. done.
<norsetto> s1024kb: this link explains what are the sponsors and what they can do for you: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay. :)
<norsetto> s1024kb: you will be notified by bugmail about the progress of your merge. If a sponsor has questions please act on them
<s1024kb> norsetto:okay. will read it at home, gotta run now, thank you very much for your mentoring today. :)  and say thank you for my friend maia to you. :)
<norsetto> s1024kb: right, see you soon
<maiatoday> bye s1024kb
<s1024kb> norsetto: see you my teacher.
<s1024kb> maiatoday: hey, dear, continue your happy time here. :) bye.
<proppy> norsetto: bug #156047, submitted to debian
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156047 in python-biopython "import Bio.PDB of python-biopython at gutsy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156047
<proppy> waiting for bts number for replying with a debdiff
<proppy> ahah dholbach you're really a wiki freak :)
<proppy> just seen you post on -discuss
<proppy> btw importing you moin wiki into ikiwiki+git should be ikiwiki compiler job
<proppy> not yours :)
<norsetto> proppy: ok, thanks for that
<proppy> linking the bug to debian bts
 * Hobbsee waves
 * proppy yo
 * norsetto eats
<proppy> are comments editable ?
<proppy> (on lp)
 * Hobbsee read that as "are comments edible", and thinks proppy is strange!
 * Hobbsee waves to EtienneG
<EtienneG> hello!
 * proppy Hobbsee thinks there is a missunderstood
<proppy> s/Hobbsee//
<proppy> I like the sound of that :)
 * norsetto wonders if missunderstood is a pun
<proppy> pun ?
<proppy> damn the debian maintainer of python-biopython is responsive :)
<proppy> > Should it be moved into Recommends to solve this issue ?  Right, I'll fix that with the next upload.
<norsetto> proppy: pun=jeux de mots
<proppy> norsetto: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=452379
<ubotu> Debian bug 452379 in python-biopython "python-biopython: import Bio.PDB failed on sid" [Normal,Open]
<proppy> on the lp part I've assigned the bug to myself
<proppy> and tag it as in progress
<deadwill> mornin'
<proppy> norsetto: is there anothing to do on #156047 ?
<effie_jayx> hello motu
 * effie_jayx gets to motu learning
 * Hobbsee waves
<huats> hey effie_jayx
<huats> effie_jayx: I am following your progression with much interest since I am in the same position than you :D
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> wireshark is a pita
<\sh> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=452381
<ubotu> Debian bug 452381 in wireshark "multiple security issues" [Grave,Open]
<norsetto> bug 156047
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156047 in python-biopython "import Bio.PDB of python-biopython at gutsy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156047
<norsetto> proppy: for that bug, you should nominate it for gutsy and hardy. For hardy it will be solved by syncing next issue with debian, for gutsy you should ask for an sru
<proppy> how do I do that ?
<effie_jayx> huats,  cool :D
<proppy> norsetto:
<norsetto> proppy: what, the sru?
<proppy> norsetto: I should separate bug report for hardy  and gutsy ?
<persia> Erm.  It needs to be in hardy before an SRU happens.  A sync would be good, but it may be worth a quick patch to support the SRU, followed by a sync request.
<proppy> "you should nominate it for gutsy and hardy"
<norsetto> proppy: the menu on the left "nominate for release"
<proppy> ok
<proppy>        Nominated       for       Gutsy       by       Johan Euphrosine                                                                 Nominated       for       Hardy       by       Johan Euphrosine
<proppy> like that ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes
<huats> hello the famous norsetto
<proppy> norsetto: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/debian-med?op=comp&compare%5B%5D=%2Ftrunk%2Fpackages%2Fpython-biopython%2Ftrunk%2Fdebian@844&compare%5B%5D=%2Ftrunk%2Fpackages%2Fpython-biopython%2Ftrunk%2Fdebian@845
<proppy> the debian DD updated the svn
<proppy> persia: so I shall request a sync to hard once it's uploaded to debian
<proppy> persia: and then ask for an SRU ?
<norsetto> proppy: ok, make a patch with that and apply it to hardy
<proppy> norsetto: instead of waiting for the sync ?
<persia> proppy: If it's critical enough for an SRU, please don't wait on Debian, as users are experiencing this problem now.
<persia> proppy: This is a special exception, because it's important to do for a released version: normally you'd wait for Debian.
<norsetto> proppy: a sync only god knows when we will be able to do, and its desiderable to have it fixed in the development release when asking for the sru
<persia> Not desireable, required.
<proppy> :)
<proppy> so -2 ubuntu1 ?
<norsetto> persia: untrue
<proppy> debdiff uploaded to bug #156047
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156047 in python-biopython "import Bio.PDB of python-biopython at gutsy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156047
<norsetto> proppy: when you have a patch to upload, you should subscribe the universe-sponsors
<norsetto> proppy: I think you did it before, right?
<proppy> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-biopython/+bug/156047
<proppy> then is the SRU ?
<proppy> I shall wait for the change to be uploaded in hardy right ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156047 in python-biopython "import Bio.PDB of python-biopython at gutsy" [Undecided,In progress]
<norsetto> proppy: you should also add the change of maintainer in the changelog
<norsetto> proppy: yes, but prepare it beforehand
<norsetto> proppy: its your first SRU?
<norsetto> heya huats, sorry, just seen your message :-)
<huats> norsetto: too busy cooking a pizza I assume :)
<proppy> ok
<proppy> Â Â * debian/control: Change Maintainer/XSBC-Original-Maintainer field. is ok ?
<norsetto> huats: busy digesting my pain-au-chocolat
<proppy> norsetto: yep
<huats> norsetto: lucky you :) but in my place (south of france, it is called "chocolatine")
<norsetto> proppy: I have seen it written in so many ways :-) Yours is as good as any
<proppy> norsetto: I just grab it from a google search :)
<proppy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/2151/ is ok ?
<frenchy> Hi all, do we still review when it's not review day anymore?
<norsetto> huats, proppy: my wife was in paris yesterday ... she was on the street going back to the hotel when she found herself in between the police and the strikers
<persia> frenchy: Yes, but not as much.  You can ask, but there's no promise that someone will look.
<proppy> norsetto: yep it's pretty stricky atmm
<proppy> norsetto: all my japanese course are cancelled :(
<norsetto> proppy: well, you can always talk with persia
<persia> Je ne parle pas Japonais
<proppy> persia: do you know talk-active japanese radio who are streamed online ?
<persia> proppy: Not offhand, no.
<proppy> bug #156047 updated
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156047 in python-biopython "import Bio.PDB of python-biopython at gutsy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156047
<huats> norsetto: I don't even have heard of a demonstration in France yesterday :)
<proppy> persia: thanks anyway
<huats> same as usual :)
<norsetto> huats: no surprise, its an everyday occurence nowadays
<proppy> I will listen to some podcast I've downloaded from zipfm :)
<frenchy> persia: I think that I've completed the 15 issues that you listed (thanks for those).  Ready for my next list ...
<frenchy> Greetings MOTUs and MOTUettes, I ask you kindly to please review my newly uploaded version of Me TV.  I'm still awaiting my first advocate.  See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=me-tv
<persia> frenchy: I've a list of things to get done in the next 22 hours, but I'll take a quick look if I get a free moment.  Did you remember to run lintian and linda against your binary changes, and address those issues as well?
<norsetto> proppy: have you subscribed your bug to the u-u-s?
<pkern> topic
<frenchy> persia: Thanks, I will appreciate whatever time you can spare.  I did run lintian/linda against the source dsc.  Was I supposed to do it against the binary, was I?
<pkern> Bloody keyboard.
<proppy> nop
<pkern> frenchy: Against the changes which results from a build.
<proppy> I'm quite useless :)
<persia> frenchy: When you build, you'll get a file ending in $arch.changes, and you'll want to run lintian and linda against that.
<proppy> done
<proppy> Ubuntu Sponsors for universe team has been subscribed to this bug.
<norsetto> proppy: ok, then mark hardy as confirmed and assign it to nobody, and mark gutsy as in progress and assign it to you ....
<frenchy> persia: linda was all good. lintian: bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file hardy.  I assume that this is because I'm on Gutsy.
<persia> frenchy: You'll want backported lintian and linda: there are quite a few changes, and if you're not getting errors, your packages will not be entirely suitable.
<frenchy> Oh ...  $arch.changes ... so you do mean a binary build.  I will do that, sorry.
<persia> frenchy: The easy way to do this is to install them in your hardy chroot.  The second easiest is to enable the -backports repository, install the packages, and disable the -backports repository.  The hardest way is to download the hardy sources compile them, and install them.
<proppy> norsetto: done
<frenchy> persia: I don't have a hardy chroot.  So I'll go and research that.
<persia> frenchy: How are you building your package?
<norsetto> persia, frenchy: I remember that I just installed the lintian deb from hardy, there wasn't any deps issue
<persia> norsetto: The backport is indeed trivial, and it should work, but I at least try to avoid running anything not compiled against my current system (or something substantially similar).
<norsetto> persia: should do the same for linda actually, I have backports enabled but I don't think that was backported
<persia> Wasn't it?  Hmm..  Maybe I forgot to file the bug: checking now, and filing if it's missing.
<frenchy> persia: I built it in gutsy.
<frenchy> persia: Yes, I'm naughty.
<norsetto> persia: well, I guess its not worth it, didn't check the changelog but hardy is 0.3.26ubuntu2 and gutsy 0.3.26ubuntu1
<persia> frenchy: naughty?  Building it in gutsy seems the best way to do it.
<persia> norsetto: Not really: I only added the differences for the new menu policy :)
<norsetto> persia: oh, right
<frenchy> persia: Yes, but it really needs to be done in a chrooted environment to stop: " bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file hardy", right?
<persia> The only reason to backport is to make lintian and linda not argue about how to specify the menu file, but it won't hurt much, and the backport is already in place on REVU.
<persia> frenchy: The hardy version of lintian shouldn't generate that issue, even if built on gutsy.
<pkern> Hm... "Debootstrap warning: colund't download package groff-base" in today's d-i daily...
<pkern> *cough*
<pkern> I need coffee.
<frenchy> persia: Thanks, so do I use pbuilder to make a mini-hardy or do I use something else?  Just a quick pointer, I'll do the rest.
<persia> frenchy: I like sbuild, but pbuilder also works.
<persia> !sbuild
<ubotu> sbuild is a system to easily build packages in a clean schroot environment.  To get started with SBuild, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<persia> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<persia> frenchy: For either, you likely want to install ubuntu-dev-tools, as there are helper scripts for both therein.
<norsetto> proppy: if I understand it correctly, the application works, its just importing the Bio.PDB that doesn't ?
<proppy> yep
<proppy> norsetto: yep
<norsetto> proppy: hmmm, I wonder if this is worth an sru then
<frenchy> persia: Thanks for your help.
<persia> frenchy: Thanks for taking the trouble to package your application for Ubuntu
<proppy> dunno if Bio.PDB is at the core of the package functionnality
<norsetto> proppy: yes, is it?
<proppy> dunno, anyone as ever tryed python-biopython ? or a package which depends on it ?
<proppy> warp10 was a med guy yes ?
<frenchy> persia: If I work hard enough I'm hoping I'll get it into hardy.
<norsetto> proppy: yes
<proppy> since it's a debian-med stuff maybe he knows :)
<norsetto> proppy: computational molecular biology ?
<proppy> norsetto: http://www.biopython.org/DIST/docs/api/public/Bio.PDB-module.html
<norsetto> proppy: hmmmm, and what would that tell me?
<proppy> norsetto: what is biopdb about :)
<norsetto> proppy: ah ... now I'm much more advanced
<proppy> norsetto: I can try to hook the DD or the upstream about that
<proppy> or maybe the bug reporter
<norsetto> proppy: seriously, is this a severe regression? What functionality loss are we talking about here? Try prodding the user/debian/upstream if you don't know yourself
<mok0> proppy: what's the problem with bio.pdb?
<mok0> I'm familiar with that module
<proppy> mok0: Bio.PDB is not importable
<proppy> see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/python-biopython/+bug/156047
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156047 in python-biopython "import Bio.PDB of python-biopython at gutsy" [Undecided,In progress]
 * mok0 looks
<mok0> Ah. It depends on Numerical Python...
<mok0> Looks like there's already a patch...
<proppy> yep
<proppy> I've just crafted it
<proppy> reported it to the DD
<mok0> Good work
<proppy> waiting for the hardy upload
<mok0> Johan == proppy?
<proppy> what I want to know, if is there not having Bio.PDB availabe
<proppy> is a big regression from python-biopython user point of view
<proppy> for knowing if I should request an SRU or not
<proppy> mok0: yep
<mok0> Uhm, that depends
<mok0> If you want to do anything with structural bioinformatics, you need it.
<mok0> if you only want to look at sequences, you don't
<mok0> I'd say, it should be present in the Ubuntu package!
<mok0> _really_
<norsetto> mok0: I have never seen an user saying something should not be present _really_
<mok0> ;-)
<persia> I've seen that, but it was usually something extra that broke something :)
<mok0> Whatever, I'd say, go for an SRU
<proppy> mok0: thanks for the input !
<mok0> I have to run, see you later!
<norsetto> proppy: well, you have to defend the case so make sure you have enough arguments
<DktrKranz> are you debating on biopython?
<norsetto> DktrKranz: yes, you are looking at it right now?
<DktrKranz> I had a look right now
<DktrKranz> I haven't tried to reproduce the bug, though
<DktrKranz> mh... does a Recommends solve that problem?
<norsetto> DktrKranz: If I understand it correctly most package managers (apt included now) automaticall install recommends
<proppy> That's what I thought either
<DktrKranz> norsetto: apt? really?
<proppy> DktrKranz: echo "import Bio.PDB" | python
<proppy> to reproduce it
<norsetto> DktrKranz: yes, I'm not 100% sure if it is already implemented in gutsy though
<DktrKranz> That's the question we need to answer
<DktrKranz> If Gutsy does not install Recommends by default (IIRC, not), that SRU seems incomplete to me
<norsetto> DktrKranz: well, not really, all the other package managers do
 * DktrKranz is speaking without testing the package...
<DktrKranz> norsetto: so Synaptic/Adept do?
<proppy> does synaptic do ?
<Hobbsee> synaptic does not by default
<Hobbsee> adept does not
<norsetto> Hobbsee: ah!
<norsetto> Hobbsee: you sure about that? I never use those
<DktrKranz> me too...
<proppy> s/Hobbsee/Awesome/
<Hobbsee> norsetto: yeah
<norsetto> well, that does it than I guess
<DktrKranz> so, using Recommends is not a good thing
<norsetto> DktrKranz: not for an sru anyhow
<proppy> Hobbsee: even in hardy ?
<Hobbsee> proppy: you asked about gutsy, not hardy.
<Hobbsee> hardy they plan to change it, i think
<DktrKranz> Maybe we can debate if it is enough for Hardy, but for a Gutsy SRU it is not advisable
<proppy> DktrKranz: someone proprosed a debdiff that add python-numeric-ext as a Depends
<proppy> maybe we can use it for the SRU ?
<proppy> Hobbsee: thaaaanks
<DktrKranz> Depending on python-numeric-ext would solve the problem
<DktrKranz> unless there's a way to bypass LinearAlgebra import
<norsetto> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/08/msg00000.html
<DktrKranz> norsetto: thanks
<lamont> dear acl2.  Please don't use the bashism 'time' in your build.  kthxbye
<lamont> someone could fix that trivially
<norsetto> proppy: to tell you the truth, since the work-around is pretty trivial (manual installation) I don't think this is worth an sru anyhow
<norsetto> proppy: now, for hardy, why not, since we don't know if the fix in the cvs will be on time for release
<proppy> I guess it will, DD are not usually afraid of uploading to unstable right ?
<norsetto> proppy: I guess too, but, why not? The downside is that this will need manual syncing, but most probably it will need anyhow since it will be after debian import freeze
<norsetto> proppy: unless you ask the DD what his plans are?
<proppy> norsetto: his plan are to push the fix, with his next upload
<norsetto> proppy: yes, but I mean his plan for the next upload....
<proppy> I guess he push fixes to his svn, and when he got enought fix to justify a new debian revision
<proppy> he uploads
<proppy> but I may be wrong
<proppy> my bet is that his stuff will get uploaded in less that one month
<proppy> is the debian import freeze so close ?
<proppy> I just get an answer of the DD
<proppy> about how important Bio.PDB is
<proppy> Sorry, I'm not sure about that and I don't know how frequently that module is used. However, I would say that it is an important feature.
<norsetto> proppy: december 13th is the DIF
<norsetto> proppy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
<proppy> ok
<proppy> I will ask him them
<proppy> norsetto: dd mailed
<proppy> norsetto: bcced you
<norsetto> proppy: why don't you subscribe to some of these python packages? If you do you will get mails whenever there are new bugs in LP
<proppy> you mean python-biopython ?
<norsetto> proppy: I mean some python packages, those that may interest you
<norsetto> proppy: you can also check bugs to which https://edge.launchpad.net/~pythonistas are subscribed
<proppy> pythonistas is a user ?
<proppy> a group
<proppy> If I join the team will I get automaticaly subscribed ?
<proppy> let's try
<ryanakca> Is there a style guide for manpages in Ubuntu?
<norsetto> proppy: I don't think it works that way, for instance, I don't get bugmail for bugs to which u-u-s are subscribed even though I'm a member
<proppy> norsetto: I'm suscribed to ubuntu-gnomemm
<proppy> and I get full of gnome c++ stuff in my mailbox :)
<norsetto> proppy: ok, then I just have to thank my IP spamfilter I guess
<RainCT> hi
<proppy> maybe it depends of the groups :)
<proppy> doko: hi, how can I get involved with pythonistas ?
<proppy> doko: what are the requirement for team membership ?
<norsetto> proppy: you, doko and scottk, the "trio de la muerte"
<proppy> ScottK is in it too ?
<proppy> niceeeee
<doko> proppy: that sounds cool! please could you send ScottK and me a short mail about your previous work regarding to python stuff?
<proppy> doko: np
<proppy> doko: not necessarly ubuntu python stuff, but python stuff in general ?
<doko> proppy: and what you want to do for python in ubuntu
<proppy> I guess you two have @ubuntu.com address ?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: did you actually test blender, or did you make sure kow did?
<proppy> Hobbsee: what about blender (I just launched it)
<Hobbsee> oh, so it does launch for you, and not segfault?  that's interesting.
 * Hobbsee attmepted to merge it, and found her version still segfaulted.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: I just built it
<proppy> Hobbsee: which version ?
<Hobbsee> 2.4.5 that's in debian
<norsetto> proppy: its a new version in hardy, not the one you are using I guess
<proppy> norsetto: I guess so
<proppy> I'm using 2.44
<proppy> and playing with collada import
<proppy> I reported a bug regarding compiz and blender yesterday
<proppy> be sure to turn compiz off
<ryanakca> is requestsync -ns equivalent to requestsync -n -s ?
<proppy> doko: ScottK: mail dropped
<artm> can i install build dependencies given debian/control ?
<proppy> artm: apt-get build-dep packagename
<artm> proppy: but apt doesn't know about this package
<artm> it isn't from a repository, i downloaded it from somwhere and want to upgrade to a new upstream version
<proppy> artm: then all I know is cut past + filtering stuff
<proppy> artm: sorry for not being helpfull
<proppy> norsetto: dd answered
<proppy> norsetto: I usually like to have bugs closed as soon as possible ;-) However, since there was just a new upload I'll wait one or two weeks for other bugreports. But it should be before the 13th.
<artm> proppy: no problem
<proppy> doko: I got a delivery error on scottk@ubuntu.com
<geser> artm: if you have pbuilder installed you can use one of its scripts for that: /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends
<artm> geser: thanks!
<proppy> doko: I forwarded it to the address listed on his wiki page
<norsetto> proppy: isn't blender a 3d modeller?
<geser> !info blender
<proppy> norsetto: yes it is
<ubotu> blender: Very fast and versatile 3D modeller/renderer. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.44-2ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 7168 kB, installed size 18628 kB
<norsetto> why the heck does it require libgsm then!?
<proppy> norsetto: it also got a opengl based gui, everyone want to see as a separate library :)
<proppy> !info libgsm
<ubotu> Package libgsm does not exist in gutsy
<proppy> !info libgsm-dev
<ubotu> Package libgsm-dev does not exist in gutsy
<nxvl> !mom
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about mom - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<nxvl> !merges
<norsetto> !libgsm1
<geser> !info libgsm1
<norsetto> !!
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about merges - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<proppy> !info libgsm!-dev
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about libgsm1 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<ubotu> libgsm1: Shared libraries for GSM speech compressor. In component main, is optional. Version 1.0.10-13build1 (gutsy), package size 29 kB, installed size 120 kB
<proppy> ahaha
<norsetto> ok, we killed ubotu
<geser> be nice to ubotu, we need it
 * norsetto hugs ubotu
<proppy> s/ubotu/awesome/
<DaveMorris> I'm looking for a 2nd MOTU to ack my package on revu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial
<geser> DaveMorris: why do you need a lintian-override?
<DaveMorris> otherwise the libserial-dev package complains that the package name doesn't match the soname of the lib
<geser> hmm, ok then
<proppy> DaveMorris: serial like rs232 ?
<norsetto> geser, davemorris: and why is there a shared library in the -dev package?
<geser> norsetto: I'm checking now, pbuilder is already working on the package
<norsetto> davemorris: hint: debian/tmp/usr/lib/lib*.so usr/lib in -dev.install .....
<DaveMorris> proppy: yes
<DaveMorris> norsetto: I believed that was where the .so objects went.  Was I wrong?
<norsetto> DaveMorris: yes, the shared library should be in libserial0, and you just need a symlink in libserial-dev
<norsetto> davemorris: you also seem to install docs in a funny place
<DaveMorris> norsetto: it should be a symblink in the -dev file
<norsetto> davemorris: its not a big deal, but is your patch really needed or you can simply add the *.pc in debian/ ?
<geser> norsetto: ./usr/lib/libserial.so -> libserial.so.0.0.0 (from the -dev package)
<geser> so it looks ok, I still don't understand why lintian would complain
<norsetto> geser: yes, that looks good
<norsetto> geser: can you check what is in libserial-doc?
<geser> norsetto: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/45478/
<norsetto> davemorris: yes, your libserial-doc needs to be improved
<DaveMorris> norsetto: I've been told before to do it as a patch
<geser> DaveMorris: have you checked that you still need that override? lintian --show-overrides or lintian -o doesn't complain about the package name
<norsetto> DaveMorris: perhaps its a misunderstanding you had
<geser> but linda and lintian aren't happy with the manpages: W: libserial-doc: manpage-has-bad-whatis-entry usr/share/man/man3/LibSerial.3.gz (dito for some other man pages)
<DaveMorris> ok, I'll double check it quickly, what needs doing with the -doc package?
<norsetto> davemorris: first of all, you should install in libserial-doc, not libserial
<norsetto> davemorris: I don't think you need to had all man pages again under /usr/share/doc?
<norsetto> davemorris: you should not install makefiles
<DaveMorris> norsetto: I don't know what you mean with regard to the man pages under /usr/share/doc
<norsetto> davemorris: can you check the link geser posted?
<norsetto> DaveMorris: do you see all the stuff in /usr/share/doc/libserial/doc/man/man3/ ?
<DaveMorris> yep
<norsetto> davemorris: is .libs needed in examples?
<geser> DaveMorris: why are you installing the man pages twice? once below /usr/share/man and once below /usr/share/doc/libserial/doc/man
<geser> DaveMorris: do the html files contain the same documentation as in the man pages?
<DaveMorris> geser: would appear to be because of the`lazy' way I've installed them via the libserial-doc.install file
<DaveMorris> geser: I beleive so
<geser> do we really need it then in two formats?
<DaveMorris> I'd say yes, someone like html some people prefer man pages
<geser> if no, you could move the man pages to the -dev package (if you use the headers you usually want also the man pages how to use it)
<norsetto> davemorris: btw for docs and examples you should use other files than .install (the .docs and .examples files)
<DaveMorris> norsetto: you know of a package I could use as an example off the top of your head and I'll look at doing it that way.
<norsetto> davemorris: try having a look at liblash, I just saw it yesterday
<norsetto> davemorris: but I would not really suggest you follow that way, the package was pretty poor ....
<norsetto> davemorris: anyhow, .docs and .examples are not much different than .install, they are used by different debhelper scripts which are tailoerd for docs and examples
<DaveMorris> ok
<norsetto> DaveMorris: you can check man dh_installdocs and man dh_installexamples for more details (cdbs just hides these from you)
<norsetto> DaveMorris: something else you could do is to add a separate line in your Description, to say somthing about the peculiarity of the package
<norsetto> DaveMorris: like, "This package contains the development libraries and headers" for libserial-dev
<DaveMorris> ok
<norsetto> DaveMorris: do you install anything in /usr/bin and /usr/sbin ?
<DaveMorris> no I don't
<norsetto> DaveMorris: then you don't need those in .dirs
<norsetto> DaveMorris: about the patch, my guess is that you were suggested to use a patch since that person thought that there was a need to correct an existing file, but if the file is new, whats the point of having a patch to add it when you can simply add it in debian/? Or is there a pkgconfig file from upstream too?
<SWAT> what's the difference between Architecture: i386 / any / all in the control file?
<LaserJock> SWAT: well, i386 is for i386
<DaveMorris> norsetto: there isn't an upstream one.  They knew it was a new file and said it could be done either way
<LaserJock> any means it will be built for all archs but is arch dependent
<LaserJock> all means it works on all archs, arch *independent*
<geser> SWAT: any is i386, amd64, sparc, lpia, ia64, hppa, ppc, etc.
<LaserJock> SWAT: make sense?
<SWAT> LaserJock, ah, thanks. I wanted to be sure. I set the architecture manually with 'i386', but using 'any' is better since I won't need to edit the control file if I compile it for another architecture.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> generally you just specify a specific arch if it won't build on any others
<norsetto> DaveMorris: there is a copyright missing in copyright (Copyright (C) 2004 by Manish Pagey)
<norsetto> DaveMorris: you don't need to install NEWS (its empty)
<DaveMorris> norsetto: any other problems I need to look at
<norsetto> davemorris: I would have to build it for some more tests
<norsetto> DaveMorris: you may want to add libserial-doc as a suggested dependancy to libserial0?
<DaveMorris> ok
<DaveMorris> thanks those I'll address them all then put it back on again
<norsetto> davemorris: I would also add a provides and conflict in libserial-dev, so that only one dev is installed at any time
<SDB804> WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!
<SDB804> WRAARRRR!!! I has the Cookies Tooo! WRAARRRR!!!
<SDB804> WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!
<norsetto> davemorris: like: Conflicts: libserial and Provides: libserial
<DaveMorris> thnaks for that
<DaveMorris> I've goto go now
<cp923> WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!
<cp923> WRAARRRR!!! I has the Cookies Tooo! WRAARRRR!!!
<cp923> WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!
<soren> Scary stuff.
<LaserJock> man, why in the world would you want to me a Tomato Monster
<LaserJock> they're so nasty
 * ogra waits for the basil and mozarella monsters to show up
<LaserJock> ohhh, yeah
<ogra> *mozzarella
<H2k`OFF|Mnkr183> WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!
<H2k`OFF|Mnkr183> WRAARRRR!!! I has the Cookies Tooo! WRAARRRR!!!
<H2k`OFF|Mnkr183> WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!
<ryanakca> is requestsync failing for anybody else? Every package I try to request with is supposedly "not in debian"...
<Kmos> ryanakca: which one are you trying ?
<ryanakca> Kmos: bzflag & aptitude.
<ryanakca> Kmos: I'm blaming it on rmadison...
<xhaker> Hi all :) in the spirit of go merging can someone please tell me how do I get eclipse uploaded?
<ryanakca> (requestsync uses 'rmadison -a source -s unstable <package>' to verify if '<package>' is in Debian... rmadison pulls the info from http://qa.debian.org/madison.php ... which doesn't seem to be working very well... should be able to type in the package name and get info...)
<ryanakca> xhaker: have you merged it?
<xhaker> ryanakca, just did
<james_w> ryanakca: you're trying to sync aptitude?
<ryanakca> cool, umm, if you're looking for a place to upload it to, REVU is your best bet.
<xhaker> i've done some changes on the package before.. but it's the first time doing sync
<xhaker> merges*
<ryanakca> james_w: yes. It doesn't look like we have any Ubuntu specific changes...
<james_w> ryanakca: um, yes it does.
<ryanakca> james_w: at least according to Kompare and grab-merges...
<james_w> http://patches.ubuntu.com/a/aptitude/extracted/03_branding.dpatch for instance
<ryanakca> hmm.. ok, nevermind.
<ryanakca> james_w: then... why wasn't it in debian/patches when I ran dpkg-source -x on the ubuntu .dsc? *scratches his head*
<Kmos> ryanakca: that's happening to me too
<james_w> ryanakca: that I can't tell you I'm afraid.
<ryanakca> james_w: herm... odd... really odd.
 * ryanakca tries to reproduce it.
<james_w> ryanakca: you didn't grab the package from Debian did you?
<ryanakca> james_w: no, from DaD
<ryanakca> I moved the extracted one that DaD created to aptitude-0.4.8.old, and then ran dpkg-source -x on aptitude_0.4.7-1ubuntu1.dsc & aptitude_0.4.8-1.dsc ...
<james_w> well the latter wont have it
<ryanakca> james_w: hmm... I probably extracted aptitude_0.4.7-1.dsc instead... herm... *checks history*
<ryanakca> james_w:  1049  dpkg-source -x aptitude_0.4.7-1.dsc
<ryanakca> ooops!
<james_w> ryanakca: no harm done.
<propeat> ciao
<propeat> see you norsetto_
<propeat> see you persia
<propeat> thanks mok0 :)
<mok0> :)
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<DktrKranz> Hey TheMuso
<norsetto> DktrKranz: you wouldn't have time to sponsor a merge?
<DaveMorris> how can you tell cdbs to remove a dir/file?  Say I have dirs b and c inside a.  I install a into a package but then wanna remove dir c.
<norsetto> DaveMorris: your would have to do it in a binary-install target
<pochu> I'd say in the install rule
<DaveMorris> hmm, I was hoping I could do packagename.delete
<DaveMorris> as a file and put them in there
<norsetto> DaveMorris: but the simple solution is not to install dirs c of course
<DaveMorris> yep
<DaveMorris> just would of been less lines if I could have a delete
<norsetto> davemorris: if its not possible to be selective in your install there is a flag you can use to exclude things (I think -x)
<norsetto> DaveMorris: the man page says: -Xitem, --exclude=item
<norsetto> DaveMorris: you can pass this to dh_install with the DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS variable
<DaveMorris> norsetto:  is it packagename.doc for installing docs?
<norsetto> DaveMorris: sorry, the DEB_DH_INSTALL_ARGS
<norsetto> DaveMorris: I think is packagename.docs
<bmhm> hi
<bmhm> what about providing this as a package: http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Download
<bmhm> It will allow bcm43xx-users to use more advanced wireless modes
<norsetto> bmhm: wrong channel I'm afraid, try #ubuntu-devel
<imbrandon> anyone else notice there is a non-english post on planet.u.c ? inst that against stated policy on the signup page
<zul> imbrandon: sure...but im not torn up about it
<pochu> imbrandon: in fact every non-ubuntu-related post is against policy... :|
 * zul can read and understand some french
<imbrandon> pochu: no thats a recomendation , as planet is "a view into the lives of..."
<imbrandon> pochu: infact it says "mostly about ubuntu"
<pochu> imbrandon: from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu
<pochu> Once you've done that, add a stanza like the following to the end of the config.ini file:
<pochu> [http://blog.example.com/~yourusername/feed?category=ubuntu-only]
<pochu> note that 'ubuntu-only' category ;)
<ryanakca> imbrandon: I'd ask the guy to create two post categories on his blog, one for planet ubuntu, and then one for the ubuntu-fr planet
<imbrandon> ryanakca: i plan to
<imbrandon> pochu: 'Subscribed feeds ought to be at least occasionally relevant to Ubuntu, although the only hard and fast rule is "don't annoy people." '
<imbrandon> hehe
<pochu> imbrandon: then either one or the other is wrong :)
<nxvl_work_> hi folks!
<nxvl_work_> paper work is SO boring :(
 * imbrandon goes to eat some turkey
<imbrandon> bbiab
<norsetto> nxvl_work: a good job is not finished until you have done your paperwork
<ryanakca> what's wrong with paperwork? :P
<bmhm> hi
<bmhm> can you upgrade kismet please?
<bmhm> your version is from 01.2007, but 10.2007 has been released yet with some very interesting features
<bmhm> i got problems compiling it
<LordKow> huh thats weird,
<Fujitsu> !info kismet hardy
<ubotu> kismet: Wireless 802.11b monitoring tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 2007-10-R1-2 (hardy), package size 946 kB, installed size 2480 kB
<LordKow> apparently "	dh_builddeb --package=php5-clamavlib" and "	dh_builddeb --package=php5-clamavlib " are different
<LordKow> anyone see something i dont? :P
<pochu> LordKow: the space at the end in the second one?
<LordKow> ah
<bmhm> Fujitsu: i mean gutsy
<LordKow> thanks ;)
<pochu> yw :)
<LordKow> dang those 0x20's
<bmhm> !info kismet gutsy
<ubotu> kismet: Wireless 802.11b monitoring tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 2007-01-R1b-1.1 (gutsy), package size 950 kB, installed size 2452 kB
<bmhm> aha
<Fujitsu> bmhm: We don't upgrade stable releases, except for through -backports.
<Fujitsu> !timebasedreleases
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<bmhm> ok, i take a look at packages.ubuntu.com hoping it works
<bmhm> Fujitsu: i can just see gutsy's release on that page
<bmhm> ah
<bmhm> never mind
<LordKow> ugh any of you having issues filing bug reports?
<bmhm> Fujitsu: okay, will the suggest driver be included?
<bmhm> people at -devel told me to ask you
<bmhm> http://fr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/k/kismet/kismet_2007-10-R1-2_amd64.deb
<pochu> bmhm: you can request it at https://bugs.launchpad.net/gutsy-backports
<bmhm> pochu: i don't want a backport
<bmhm> hardy's version runs fine
<bmhm> I just aksed another question
<pochu> oh, you mean that linuxdrivers thing?
<pochu> sorry then
<bmhm> yeah
<pochu> for that I guess you can file a needs-packaging bug, or an RFP in Debian (if there's none yet)
<bmhm> how, pochu ?
<pochu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
<pochu> and tag it 'needs-packaging'
<pochu> bmhm: but aren't those drivers included in the kernel?
<bmhm> not in gutsy, and a lot of distros included them some months ago already
<LordKow> bug 164585 quick sync for whoever wants it ;)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164585 in php-clamavlib "[hardy] Please sync php-clamavlib-0.13-1 (universe) from debian unstable (web)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164585
<LordKow> i guess i should check to see if i can build debian's version
<bmhm> LordKow: someone from -devel just told me they might put it into hardy's kernel
<LordKow> i've always assumed that it would not FTBFS
<LordKow> bmhm, how do you put clamav into the kernel?
<bmhm> oh i thought you were talking about b43 as well :)
<LordKow> doesnt 2.6.24 include a new and much improvement broadcom driver?
<bmhm> dunno, maybe it's the one i was talking about
<LordKow> the new iwl drivers for intel wireless cards are much much better
<bmhm> the best thing about .23 and .24 is the new scheduler
<bmhm> I got an bcm43xx :(
<LordKow> quite honestly, i dont think the new scheduler will make a ton of difference for a normal desktop user.
<LordKow> i haven't noticed a huge diff, im using .24-rc3 atm
<LordKow> do we have the same "Python Policy" as as debian?
<norsetto> lordkow: which policy? The new policy?
<LordKow> yea
<norsetto> lordkow: or the new new policy?
<LordKow> debian bug 373411
<ubotu> Debian bug 373411 in wxwindows2.4 "Python policy transition" [Grave,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/373411
<norsetto> LordKow: yes, thats the new new policy
<LordKow> and we follow suite?
<norsetto> lordkow: it will soon be made obsolete by the new new new policy I expect
<LordKow> lol okay
<LordKow> i will not merge wxwindows2.4 or even request a sync then because debians change is due to the new new policy only.
<norsetto> LordKow: but seriously, yes, we follow Debian
<LordKow> well it cant be a sync because we add some sparc and ppc stuff
<DaveMorris> I've fixed the last loads of comments in my package on revu. Can it now be checked again please - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial
<LordKow> should build-depends be libglu1-mesa-dev or libglu1-xorg-dev? apparently the xorg-dev variant is just a transitional package for debian sarge to edge
<luk_> s/edge/etch/
<somerville32> Does apt-cache show info from binary or source?
<imbrandon> somerville32: binary, use showsrc for source
<LordKow> er thanks luk
<LordKow> s/libglu1-xorg-dev/libgl1-xorg-dev
<LordKow> the changelog answered that q btw :)
<LordKow> i really dislike changelog entries like "  * Rebuild for ldbl128 change on powerpc and sparc." especially when there are lot of other changes.
<geser> LordKow: what other changes?
<LordKow> locale changes, sed usage changes (use " vs ')
<geser> from MoM?
<geser> have you an example at hand?
<LordKow> no im working on a merge and im verifying previous changes
<LordKow> the wxwindows2.4 merge. maybe if you take a look at a debdiff between our current ubuntu version and the debian version from which it is based you can tell me what that change refers to
<LordKow> let me upload the debdiff and i'll link you to it
<LordKow> save you some work :)
<pochu> LordKow: rebuilds are no-change-uploads afaik... so just ignore those entries :)
<geser> LordKow: the last Ubuntu delta is available as a patch e.g. on PTS
<LordKow> ah
<LordKow> http://weather.ou.edu/~kdrake/old_debian-old_ubuntu.debdiff kind of unneeded now but there you go if you want to look
<geser> LordKow: the -1ubuntu2 is a rebuild only
<LordKow> yea, its all figured out now
<geser> and -1ubuntu1 looks like a MoM generated merge, MoM likes to do changes to .po files
<geser> I ignore those changes if they aren't listed in one changelog entry
<DaveMorris> can someone give my package on revu a run down please - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<LordKow> NMU = ?
<pochu> Non Maintainer Upload
<LordKow> k
<LordKow> this is a useless merge but oh well, might as well do it
<LordKow> only debian change was to put the new new python policy into effect which in turn builds against python2.4 instead of 2.3, but we already do that heheh
<LordKow> this is nice. im starting to run into merges i cant do because they're already being done/are done in LP :D
<LordKow> bug 132603 can this be closed, or marked invalid... its out-of-date?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132603 in uswsusp "Please update the uswsusp package" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132603
<DktrKranz> LordKow, did you file merge request in bug 164599 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164599 in wxwindows2.4 "Please upload merge wxwindows2.4-2.4.5.1.1 (universe) from Debian sid (libs)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164599
<LordKow> DktrKranz, isnt that bug THE request?
<nenolod> it'd be nice if somebody would be sure to sync xmms-crossfade, audtty, wmauda and g15daemon-audacious from debian unstable
<nenolod> they fix many dbus transition issues
<DktrKranz> LordKow, it is. I noticed your debdiff does not include previous Ubuntu changes, though :(
<LordKow> the changelog? i think it does
<LordKow> the new debian base -> new ubuntu candidate debdiff adds all of the ubuntu changes to the changelog.
<LordKow> as for the actual changes themselves. i went through the debdiff and verified every change against debians is noted
<LordKow> which is (1) sed changes in rules and (2) po stuff
<DktrKranz> It is good to have them listed, thanks :)
<DktrKranz> But it seems to me you did a debdiff against latest Ubuntu version, and not against latest Debian version
<LordKow> i did both
<LordKow> the one against the latest ubuntu should be pretty much empty.
<LordKow> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10519790/new_debian-new_ubuntu.debdiff
<LordKow> i think that is what you are looking for, DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> So, it is ok to consider only the first one as a candidate debdiff?
<DktrKranz> I looked only at the second one :)
<LordKow> well, they're different debdiffs
<LordKow> the first one is against the new debian base, the 2nd one is against the current ubuntu version, as per the merge guide :)
<DktrKranz> Ok, looks clear to me now. Thanks :)
<LordKow> im still wondering why the current ubuntu version has a debian maintainer when its an ubuntu release
<LordKow> so i think this merge actually has some use
<LordKow> unless it was the debian maintainer who was nice enough to produce the ubuntu version for us :)
<LordKow> DktrKranz, i must say i did not check it for FTBFS simply because there are no build rules or source changes against our current version.
<DktrKranz> It takes a bit for wxwidgets to compile, so a test run is advisable. I resubscribe u-u-s queue for sponsorship.
<LordKow> k i'll build now.
<DktrKranz> It took 27 minutes on our buildd, if you have a some obsolete hardware (as me), it will take you much longer :)
<s1024kb> good morning everyone
<DktrKranz> morning s1024kb
<LordKow> i cant believe im asking this, but how do you actually apply a debdiff... patch?
<LordKow> oh nevermind, i can use patch and apply it to the pkg src dir
<ryanakca> Is it possible to temporarily add a repo to a schroot? (aka, for one build only?)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-23
<xhaker> ScottK, why pass on pilot-link?
<Jazzva> ryanakca: I suppose you can add it to schroot, then update, install what you need, remove the repo, then update again... and remove the package you need after build.
<RAOF> ryanakca: You could use a scratch chroot.
<RAOF> ryanakca: ie: log in with schroot, add the repo, get the build-deps, and build manually.
<ryanakca> RAOF: is there a way to automate the build from inside the chroot?
<RAOF> Um.  Probably.
<RAOF> I can't think of it at the moment.
<RAOF> (Or indeed, think at the moment at all)
<ajmitch> argh
<ajmitch> single mysql query filling up /tmp (a tmpfs)
<ajmitch> hate
<ryanakca> RAOF: hmm... ok, thanks, I'll read the manpage :D
<ryanakca> ajmitch: ouch...
<ajmitch> one could say that
<ajmitch> that's why it's being moved onto another server, but it still shouldn't do that
<ajmitch> that's just madness
<ryanakca> ummm... how can you edit a dpatch if you can't apply it?
<ajmitch> break it until it applies?
<ajmitch> how are you trying to apply it? dpatch-edit-patch?
<ryanakca> yes...
<ryanakca> and I've tried dpatch apply-all ...
<ajmitch> manually tweak it?
<ryanakca> ajmitch: ok... and, since I'm merging aptitude... I guess I should file a bug under it for merging, saying that I'll provide more information & new .dsc/etc soon? (That way we don't end up being two people doing the same thing?)
<ajmitch> aptitude, you're a brave one
<ajmitch> that may help, but it's in main, so you'd best hope that whoever was looking at it would check the bugs first
<ryanakca> ajmitch: *nods*... I missed mvo by a matter of minutes this morning, so I'll poke him about it when he shows up again...
<Amaranth> ryanakca: This is why quilt > dpatch/simple-patchsys
<Amaranth> ryanakca: you can force the patch to apply, clean up the mess, then run `quilt refresh` and you're good to go :)
<ryanakca> :)
<ryanakca> Amaranth: feel like complaining to the Debian maintainer for me? :D
<Amaranth> heh
 * ajmitch wonders how this query can cause such a massive file in /tmp to be created :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Because MySQL is crap? :-)
<ajmitch> StevenK: oh I know that
 * ajmitch is driven to drink because of it
<StevenK> Can't use Postgres?
<ajmitch> a single dump of this database is ~90MB
<StevenK> Neat
<ajmitch> the query was dying because there was only about 4GB free in /var/tmp, where I moved it
<ajmitch> sad, no?
<StevenK> Yeah. Neat.
<ajmitch> and no, I can't use postgres without rewriting a bunch of this code
<ryanakca> in Please upload merge <sourcepackagename><version> (repository) from Debian <repository> (<component>) ... is <version> the Ubuntu or Debian version?
<ajmitch> I'd really like to
<StevenK> ajmitch: As much I like to loathe Perl, this is one place where DBI is *good*
<ajmitch> this is PHP
<ajmitch> and the code uses a couple of useful things from mysql
<StevenK> I assumed it was.
<ajmitch> like count(*) isn't fast in postgres due to its design
<StevenK> If I recall, count(id) (or whatever) is fast enough
<ryanakca> ?
<LordKow> http://merges.ubuntu.com/u/uswsusp/REPORT should i let this go until the kernel dev team gets the new kernel out?
<ajmitch> yeah, I think it's CALC_FOUND_ROWS or something that's used
<LordKow> 2.6.22 -> 2.6.23/.24 includes new suspend and hibernation code.
<ajmitch> problem is, I know I'm going to have to try & 'optimise' this query so it doesn't die
<LordKow> bug 134238 what do you guys think? put s2ram back in or not. it *should* be included with powersaved
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134238 in uswsusp "Please re-enable build of s2ram binary" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134238
<StevenK> LordKow: Right, I'd suggest you leave uswsusp alone. It's fragile, and can override parts of the suspend and resume code that runs under Ubuntu userspace.
<LordKow> correct, and we differ from debian with regard to suspend/resume & splash (ie usplash vs libsplashy).
<LordKow> i will gladly leave it alone :)
<LordKow> okay. working on tiger merge and we added a portugese translation before debian did. our portugese translation is basically the same as debians, but was created 2 months later. use debians? the only difference in the translation is where newlines are (same wording)
<LordKow> (latest debian package adds the translation)
<persia> LordKow: looking at backscroll, I noticed you were looking at the wxwindows2.4 merge.  You don't happen to be familiar with that API do you?
<LordKow> no
<LordKow> persia ^
<persia> LordKow: Ah, well.  There's only about 4 rdepends, and I'd rather drop the package than merge it.
<LordKow> persia, fair enough but that is not a decision i can make.
<persia> LordKow: No worries: I already made the decision: it's a matter of who can code it.  The remaining few are messy, so one needs to know the API.
<ryanakca> Is 9.1M an "acceptable size"? (to upload as a debdiff to LP for a merge?)
<ryanakca> or should I gzip it?
<persia> ryanakca: At that size, a gzip is preferred.  What is the size of the diff against the past Ubuntu version?
 * persia is confused about how a debdiff can get so large
<ryanakca> persia: in a merge... new upstream version or something of the sort... *shrugs*
<persia> ryanakca: There are 9MB of Ubuntu-specific patches?
<ryanakca> persia: it's the size of the diff against the past ubuntu version...
<ryanakca> persia: no.
<persia> ryanakca: Ah.  Please do a diff against Debian for that then.
<ryanakca> ok... 38K seems much more reasonable :)
<persia> Yes.  Basically, the rule is to do a debdiff against the version that contains the orig.tar.gz that you want uploaded to the archives.  Anything else is hard to read.
<imbrandon> ( make sure and specify what version you diffed against though, diffrent sponsors assume diffrent )
<ryanakca> ok.
 * persia seconds imbrandon: even if there are no assumptions, it's important to know the source
<ryanakca> persia: one last thing before I upload... what do these lines in the diff do?
<ryanakca> only in patch2:
<ryanakca> unchanged:
<persia> ryanakca: That generally indicates the addition of a new file, but I'd need more context to be sure (such context would be the entire stanza of the diff, the original, and the result, and I've too long a queue to examine it now)
<ryanakca> ex: http://pastebin.ca/794368
<ryanakca> ok :)
<persia> ryanakca: If Debian added a new file, and that's it, I'm right.  If I'm wrong, you'll want to look at the file in question to figure out how (and I'd appreciate a correction).
<LaserJock> phew, so much food.
 * LaserJock is sleepy
<ajmitch> oh that's right, one of those funny public holidays over there
<LaserJock> "funny"?
<LaserJock> New Zealand doesn't have holidays?
 * persia is happily celebrating "Honor the Laborers" Day
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we don't have that one :)
<LaserJock> sucks to be you ;-)
<persia> ajmitch: You need more holidays then :)
<LaserJock> football and turkey, couldn't get much better
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea i'm stuffed and will likely call it  short night, although not yet
<imbrandon> mucho turkey and ham
<LaserJock> yeah
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<imbrandon> ajmitch: is it possible to search the db.debian.org and find DD locations ( e.g. if there are any near KC )
<imbrandon> dosent look like that info is exposed afaict
<ajmitch> yes, it's possible
 * ajmitch would need to dig out his password to do it
<imbrandon> ajmitch: if you find a few moments to do that it would rock
<imbrandon> Kansas City, Mo 64138 ( and others thats just the zipcode i'm in ) if that helps any
<LaserJock> imbrandon: what's the population of KC?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ummm <1 million with the whole metro area
<imbrandon> i would have to lookup the exact though
 * imbrandon looks
<imbrandon> LaserJock: according to wikipedia
<imbrandon> As of 2006, the city had an estimated population of 447,306[4], with a metro area of nearly two million.[5]
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> phew 2 million
<persia> That's a city?  Wow: population density is low out there.
<imbrandon> persia: one of the largest in the midwest, yea population density is low in the midwest
<LaserJock> that's freakin huge
 * persia found Boston small, with only ~3 million
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> pfft
<imbrandon> boston is packed and fskin huge by our standards
<LaserJock> totally
<imbrandon> LaserJock: reno metro is like what 750k ?
<LaserJock> > 100k is a big city to me
<LaserJock> imbrandon: try 300 to maybe 400k
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> i would have thought more, guess lots of tourist though
<LaserJock> yeah, tons of tourist
<LaserJock> Hot August Nights gets us 800k
<LordKow> bug 164623
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164623 in tiger "Please upload merge tiger-3.2.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (admin)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164623
<imbrandon> heh i've been to those, down on virginia street
<LordKow> can someone give me their ideas on the last comment I added please :)
<imbrandon> and the rib-fest
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, that's pretty big too
<LordKow> i should reset the status back to in progress, i guess
<LaserJock> imbrandon: a Cabelas store just opened up last week
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we got people from all over, supposedly several million a year are supposed to come
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> we just have lots of Datacenters, something about there are tons of peering points in KC because its smack in the middle of the US
<LaserJock> mhm
<ryanakca> persia: 3 million? Small? Then what's 116k? nano? :D
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I went to Lawrence, KS once for a few days. I liked that area out there. I don't like the idea of tornados though
<imbrandon> yea thats just a few miles from here
<imbrandon> persia: umm the epoc is required isnt it 0.4.4-5 ( published ) > 0.4.4-2+debian-1
<persia> ryanakca: A large town: likely only one or two shops of any given specialised type, and many things need to be imported.  One knows everyone of shared interest, and is not surprised to find someone similar at a party who one will never see again.  "Local" means the entire area, rather than the neighborhood, etc.
<persia> imbrandon: Than don't use that version number.  What's wrong with 0.4.4+debian-1?
<ryanakca> persia: heh :)
<imbrandon> persia: because upstream uses -X also
<imbrandon> persia: eg -2 -3 -4 etc
<imbrandon> e.g their release is 0.4.4-2
<persia> imbrandon: Hrm.  Upstream is even more broken than I thought.  In that case, the watch file is way broken.  Looking again...
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> yea watch may not work for them, upstream is really fubar, their tarbal is 0.4.4.tar.gz but unzip it and its really 0.4.4-2
<imbrandon> persia: ^
<persia> imbrandon: I can't find any evidence that upstream ever releases multiple revisions for a given version: the revision number seems only for local convenience.
<LaserJock> persia: and I thought my home town was good sized at 4k :/
<persia> imbrandon: you can fix that in get-orig-source :)
<imbrandon> heh i loth getting source from vcs
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> hrm
<persia> imbrandon: get-orig-source isn't just for VCS: use uscan to grab upstream, unpack, blow away debian/, repack sensibly.
<imbrandon> true but what about the problem -3 will also be 0.4.4.tar.gz from upstream
<imbrandon> upstream just needs to let me fix their shit LOL, but i've pleased with him more than a year now
<imbrandon> to no avail
<saivann_> Hi everyone, #ubuntu-bugs seems empty of awake people, can I ask a question about bug importance here?
<imbrandon> pleaded*
<persia> imbrandon: Looking at sourceforge, upstream has never released an update without bumping the upstream version: 0.3.0-2, 0.4.1-0, 0.4.2-0, 0.4.3-2, 0.4.4-2.
<persia> saivann_: Don't let the lack of traffic bother you: just ask there.
<imbrandon> hrm very true, i coudl probably get away with 0.4.4+debian-1 then
<imbrandon> 0.4.4+debian-1 > 0.4.4-5 correct ?
<persia> imbrandon: So my dpkg tells me (dpkg --compare-versions 0.4.4+debian-1 gt 0.4.4-5 && echo Woot!)
<imbrandon> k
<saivann_> persia : Thanks, I just wanted to know one thing, I set the importance of the bug 101943 to medium, but since it can crash or freeze a computer for a while with default ubuntu stuff, should-I change to "High"
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 101943 in xscreensaver "Braid screensaver crashes system with compiz activated" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/101943
<imbrandon> seeing how i've never used get-orig-source personaly in a p[ackage it will be a good thing(tm)
<imbrandon> persia: thanks for the feedback, i might poke you in a few hours to take another quick glance
<imbrandon> if your up for it
<persia> imbrandon: No problems.  The more I get to review, the easier it is to put off actually maintaining any of the libraries I should be updating :)
<imbrandon> heh, yea i have one thats converted to cmake i've been putting off
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: No DD in KC
<imbrandon> libvisual0.4 i'm looking at you ..
<imbrandon> StevenK: crap
<imbrandon> StevenK: what about the state of MO or KS ? ( I seen one listed for St. Louis but thats about 4 hours away )
<StevenK> 3 in MO
<imbrandon> what cities ? one might be closer than stl
<StevenK> 3 in KS, too
<imbrandon> nice 1 out of 6 must be semi close
<imbrandon> hopefully
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you need a new key signed?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> for DM?
<imbrandon> yea from a DD, i have ubuntu sigs
<imbrandon> for DM
<LaserJock> imbrandon: the ubuntu sigs aren't from a DD?
<imbrandon> not the ones i currently have, my old key had ajmitch and sabdfl
<imbrandon> but that one is revoked
<LaserJock> doh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: just fly here & I'll sign it again
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> StevenK: can i have the @debian.org emails of those 6 people ? or would that be shady use of debian resources
<StevenK> imbrandon: I'm sorting out where they are, first
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> thanks a ton for doing that btw
<StevenK> imbrandon: Let's just say you'll owe me. :-)
<imbrandon> sounds fair :)
<GoldenPony> LaserJock!!!
<ajmitch> run now, LaserJock
<StevenK> Ponies!
<imbrandon> golden ones at that
<LaserJock> hmm, how do you see who's signed your key?
<imbrandon> you should be able to see it in gpg --list-keys iirc
<StevenK> gpg --list-sigs <id>
 * ajmitch looks at calendar
<ajmitch> ah, q&a session is 1 hour after start of motu meeting?
 * ajmitch got confused at seeing 13:00 for the q&a, since I knew that the meeting was at 1AM here
<persia> ajmitch: Right.
<ajmitch> so we have to keep the arguing short
<LaserJock> hmm, --list-sigs only give me self signatures
 * ajmitch is doubtful that he'll really be very awake by then
<persia> Current agenda is just SRU: we should be OK if there's not a lot of "other business"
<ajmitch> persia: we've got plenty of other issues
 * persia looks at the agenda again
<ajmitch> I thought they had been added to the agenda, but I guess not
<ajmitch> our little discussion about what to do with MOTUs who don't follow policy, and how to try & prevent having that happen in the first place
<persia> ajmitch: Add something if you want to discuss :)
<ajmitch> that would commit me to being there :)
<persia> ajmitch: True.  Next time should be saner: a saturday morning, and perhaps you'll want to raise it then?
<ajmitch> maybe
<persia> There's a couple things that seem pending: how to make sure everyone is aware of current consistent policy, how to manage process change so everyone is aware, how to deal with scaling as we get closer to Dunbar's number, etc.
<StevenK> LaserJock: If it's only showing self-sigs, then your key either hasn't been signed, or you haven't pulled your public key off of a keyserver
<LaserJock> StevenK: I think maybe the later
<StevenK> LaserJock: gpg --recv-keys 0x<id>, then
<LaserJock> alrighty, back in business
<LaserJock> mako is a DD isn't he?
<StevenK> YU
<StevenK> Er
<StevenK> Yup
<LaserJock> alright, I guess that's my only DD sig then
 * minghua needs his keys signed, too.
 * StevenK just counted -- 33 DD signatures
<LaserJock> wow, nice
<LaserJock> if you add a new email address do you have to get new sigs?
<StevenK> If you add a new e-mail address, that uid only has a self signature
<minghua> StevenK: Can you sell me a couple? :-)
<StevenK> Nope. :-P
<LaserJock> StevenK: but does that mess me up if I need a DD sig?
<LaserJock> does it matter what uid I use?
<LaserJock> like I have mantha@ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> but if I wanted to use a different address for Debian say
<StevenK> LaserJock: No, since your AM will look at all UIDs on your key
<LaserJock> k
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<LaserJock> yes master
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i use @imbrandon.com for debian and @kubuntu.org for ubuntu but both are on the same KEY
<imbrandon> seems to work ok
<LaserJock> yeah, I have one that's actually an old address
<LaserJock> is it a good idea to remove older keyids? or is it ok to just leave them?
 * persia thinks the key is signed, rather than the UID
<StevenK> persia: People may choose to sign one UID
<LaserJock> I don't think so actually
<persia> StevenK: Really?  Interesting.  Thanks.
<LaserJock> because I added my @ubuntu.com later
<LaserJock> and some sigs are not on it
<StevenK> persia: I sign using --edit-key, and the command sign asks "Really sign all UIDs?"
<LaserJock> but I think people look at all the UIDs
 * StevenK chuckles at imbrandon's e-mail
<mdomsch> StevenK, go to OLS and do the keysigning for a few years...
 * mdomsch counts 102 debian.org sigs
<mdomsch> LaserJock, caff is really nice for handling that
<mdomsch> apt-get install signing-party
<StevenK> mdomsch: OLS is a little far
<imbrandon> StevenK: did you get it ? i got a returned mail
<StevenK> imbrandon: I got it, yes
<imbrandon> hrm strange
<mdomsch> it mails a separate signature to each uid you're signing
<mdomsch> encrypted
<imbrandon> StevenK: i got SMTP: host 70.103.162.29: 550 user account locked
<persia> I'm looking at a multiverse package that build-depends on a wrapper package that downloads the actual contents at install-time.  Unfortunately, this just completely fails to work for the current build environment.  Does anyone have any suggestions?
<mdomsch> and the receiver then decrypts, adds it to their keyring, and uploads it to the keyservers
<imbrandon> ( thats my ISP's smtp server )
<mdomsch> so you know they own the email addr
<StevenK> imbrandon: That's master.d.o, so one of them is locked
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> looks like both i think, lemme look
<imbrandon> yea they both say that, so not active?
<StevenK> Uncertain
<mdomsch> StevenK, I presume LCA has keysignings too, but I've never been able to go
<Hobbsee> persia: fix the package so it doesn't.
<persia> Hobbsee: Doesn't what?
<Hobbsee> persia: need to access the net during build.
<StevenK> persia: The Ubuntu buildds have no Internet access (for obvious reasons)
<persia> Hobbsee: There are no open-source versions of the API against which the package builds available.  It needs the build dependency.  I could copy the binary blobs to multiverse directly, but that would be bad.  Any other ideas?
<persia> StevenK: Yes, I know: I'm hoping someone will tell me a way to handle binary uploads or something.
<StevenK> persia: Beg lamont
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.
<imbrandon> StevenK: ok so should i wait a few days to see if those accounts are still active or does locked mean something i'm not aware of, it said failed to deliver
<imbrandon> seems only you got the corny email hehe
<persia> Hmm..  Now to find a non-US, non-EU buildd admin...
<imbrandon> heh goodluck
 * LaserJock gets back to ponies
 * imbrandon wonders if he will finaly get a GoldenPony :)
 * Hobbsee cant help you there
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you'll get an extra special one, just for you
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> mt dew colored ?>
<LaserJock> eww
<ajmitch> just wrong
<LaserJock> imbrandon: maybe a pony pulling a cart of Mt. Dew?
<imbrandon> hahaha :)
 * StevenK is reminded of an Australian radio ad.
<StevenK> "G'day, I'm a draught horse. I'm used to pull big, heavy carts around. Full of beer. Er, the carts, not me."
<LaserJock> lol
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> (It turns out the draught horse, has been replaced with a ute, and so the horse talks about the ute, and then says, "Still, I shouldn't complain. The boss got me a new job. In a factory. Making glue, I think. I start tomorrow!")
<bmk789> is there any progress being made on the penguintv package?
<persia> bmk789: penguintv?  What's the current status.
<bmk789> broken
<persia> bmk789: Are there bugs?
<bmk789> needs a couple variables exported to run correctly, but then it runs
<bmk789> the software itself is kinda buggy but thats not gonna be fixed with packaging
<LaserJock> StevenK: heh
<persia> bmk789: I meant, "Is there a bug about this problem filed on Malone?".  Sorry for the confusion.
<bmk789> its bug #131958 on launchpad, i havent seen anything else about it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131958 in penguintv "PenguinTV segfaults with GtkWarning: gtk_window_resize: assertion `width > 0' failed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131958
<persia> bmk789: looking at the bug history, it appears nobody is working on it.  If you know how to fix it, a patch would be great.
<lifeless> bmk789: we'll happily take non-packaging bugfixes if they are clear and understandable.
<bmk789> i really wish i could but i just dont know how to set it up right
<lifeless> bmk789: well, perhaps adding a default for those environment variables, within the code, would be a good start
<persia> bmk789: OK.  I'd be happy to help get it set correctly, I just don't use the package, and don't know how to fix it.  Does it maybe need adjustment of the default configuration file?
<bmk789> well its python and run from a script /usr/bin/PenguinTV but i dont know how to integrate the "export ....." lines into that script to get it to work
<bmk789> i tried just putting them in at the top but that didnt do it
 * persia defers to someone who knows python, but is available to help with packaging questions
<lifeless> bmk789: export lines are shell, is /usr/bin/PenguinTV shell?
<imbrandon> persia: got a simple get-orig-source example ( or some docs woudl be better ) google is not my friend atm
<bmk789> im assuming not since it starts with #!/usr/bin/python
<imbrandon> os.system('export BLAH=blah')
<imbrandon> hehe assuming os is imported
<lifeless> imbrandon: wrong answer
<persia> imbrandon: it's just a make rule that generates a tarball.  There are a few examples on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#CommonMistakes, but I'll see if I can find a nice repack example.
<lifeless> bmk789: try this -
<lifeless> import os
<lifeless> os.environ['VARIABLE'] = 'value'
<imbrandon> ahh much cleaner :)
<lifeless> imbrandon: with the added advantage of actually working :)
<imbrandon> hehe i have -0- python-foo as StevenK found out the other night, only hacks
<lifeless> imbrandon: calling os.system() will run a sub process, but its environment is in a child process
<persia> imbrandon: I'm not sure I like the style of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/ike-0711191320/ike-2.0.3+dfsg/debian/rules (not very make-like), but it works.
<lifeless> imbrandon: so it doesn't get fed back into the running python script; which is why it wouldn't work
<imbrandon> persia: ok cool gives me something to work with atleaste
<imbrandon> lifeless: ahhh i see
<lifeless> imbrandon: same thing will happen with mono, C, perl etc.
<imbrandon> yea
<lifeless> and all shell for that matter  :)
<lifeless> s/all/also/
<imbrandon> persia: so get-orig-source isnt intended to run at every build correct, only manualy via debian/rules ?
<bmk789> lifeless: i changed it to this http://pastebin.com/m6cb4f6a but it did the same thing
<persia> imbrandon: The genpo get-orig-source (from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=genpo) is a simple uscan-based repack, and might be a good example.
<bmk789> lifeless: i added lines 20-21
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  It's run manually only.
<persia> imbrandon: Essentially it serves to document the repacking procedure, so that anyone else can duplicate it, and the next upstream is easy to repack.
<imbrandon> ahh right ok
<lifeless> bmk789: but it works when you export those variables ?
<LaserJock> for some reason it just seems like README.Ubuntu would be better for documenting stuff than debian/rules
<bmk789> yes when i export those before running that script it works but the edited script doesnt work
<lifeless> bmk789: oh, two issuees
<bmk789> ?
<lifeless> bmk789: the main one si that LD_LIBRARY_PATH is, if I remember correctly, not something that can be trivially changed... hang on
<bmk789> oh
<lifeless> the runtime loader will check it
<lifeless> but you have to tell it or something
<lifeless> man ld.so
<lifeless> I think you might need to rebuild some extension to know where its dependent libraries are, or some such.
<bmk789> so its gonna take more than tweaking that file to fix this
<persia> bmk789: You might also try in #ubutu-mozillateam for hints on making things work well with firefox.  I don't know how active they are now (seems to be US-time based, and there's a national holiday on), but can be a good source other times.
<bmk789> i really wish i could contribute to stuff like this but i really dont know what im doing
<persia> bmk789: Trying is the best way to learn: eventually you get something that works for you, and you share it with others.  If it also works for them, you share it with everyone, and find the next thing that annoys you :)
<bmk789> i know i just dont wanna barge in on all the developers and be the n00b that needs everything explained
<lifeless> bmk789: we're all noobs, all the time, on some stuff
<persia> bmk789: Don't worry about asking questions: if you ask something really low-level, you'll get a pointer to a document, rather than an answer, but the question is still worthwhile.
<bmk789> alright, ill give it a shot
<persia> bmk789: Good luck.
<bmk789> thanks
<bmk789> would it be wrong to rename PengiunTV to PengiunTV.2 then create a shell script for PenguinTV that runs the 2 export lines then runs PenguinTV.2
<RAOF> bmk789: That can work.  The traditional way to do that is to rename the binary to pengin.real & have penguin be the wrapper script.
<bmk789> ah, so thats what all the .real threads are
<RAOF> Yup.
<RAOF> The compiz package does it, miro does it (upstream, now.  Yay!)
<bmk789> i suppose that isnt the "proper" way to solve the problem is it?
<RAOF> There probably is, from what I've gathered (I'm not really in possession of all the facts, though)
<bmk789> well that does the trick
<RAOF> There's nothing terribly wrong with a wrapper solution, though.
<persia> The "right" solution is to have a real shared library for firefox, which I think is coming soon.
<TheMuso> Afternoon folks.
<StevenK> Afternoon TheMuso
<nenolod> who do i subscribe to a bug requesting a sync from debian unstable?
<nenolod> we just knocked out the audacious 1.3 -> 1.4 transition in debian today
<nenolod> so, it'd be good to sync the packages in ;)
<persia> nenolod: The same sponsors teams that you'd subscribe for a patch
<persia> nenolod: On the other hand, if there's no Ubuntu variation, the autosync scripts will grab things soon, and if there is Ubuntu variation, it needs a merge.
<persia> Errrr... *may* need a merge
<nenolod> well audacious 1.4.2 needs to go in first
<nenolod> which has new deps (libprojectm1) which aren't in ubuntu :D
<persia> nenolod: Is libprojectm1 in main in Debian?  If so, it should hit Ubuntu NEW fairly soon.
<imbrandon> i thought libprojectm1 was in NEW or should be soon-ish
 * persia hasn't looked at NEW
<nenolod> how do you view NEW?
<nenolod> it's in debian main ;p
<nenolod> libvisual-projectm is in NEW, but is entirely unrelated to libprojectm1
<persia> nenolod: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue
 * imbrandon perks up , libvisual ?
 * imbrandon just took that over in debian
<nenolod> libprojectm1 is not in any of hardy's queues ;)
<persia> imbrandon: You might want to chat with DarkMageZ, who has been maintaining libvisual-plugins in Ubuntu.
<persia> nenolod: Wait a few days: the next autosync run will probably happen when the build queues have quieted a little.
<imbrandon> persia: yea i just filed the ITA for libvisual and libvisual-plugins in debian about 12 hours ago
<nenolod> libvisual-projectm is a seperate package
<imbrandon> man i need to find some mentee work for nxv*l to "learn the tools" he has a good grasp of the bug triage and packageing requiremnets, but wants to learn the "tools" better
<imbrandon> sugestions ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: unmet deps?
<persia> imbrandon: FTBFS issues?
<imbrandon> yea i was thinking ftbfs but either i guess would be ok
<persia> imbrandon: More generally, pick a few things from qa.ubuntuwire.com: there's lots of little stuff, most of it packaging-related.
<GoldenPony> LaserJock: ponies!
 * minghua ponders about the horror when golden ponies turn into long pointy sticks.
<GoldenPony> haha
 * minghua actually never understands this pony business.
<persia> minghua: As long as we have Golden Ponies we can all ride happily to another release.  Unfortunately, they can only be forged with very high-powered lasers, so sometimes it takes a while.
 * imbrandon considers upgrading to hardy on his main workstation
<minghua> persia: Hmm.  Lasers.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: don't.
<Hobbsee> actaully, kde might not be too bad.
<imbrandon> i'm in fluxbox + kde apps + gnome apps lol
<imbrandon> atm
<imbrandon> just an all arround mix
<persia> imbrandon: You might want to check the NBS list before upgrading: just to make sure you have have a normally unstable system as a result.
<Hobbsee> the gnome apps are breaking
<imbrandon> yea looks like even irssi is on the NBS list
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> maybe i'll wait another week
 * persia grumbles that the buildds are too responsive, and that more uploads are required to keep the delay > 1 day.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> just try hppa or something.
<persia> Hobbsee: True.  HPPA is happy.  The others are getting hungry.
<Hobbsee> mmmm
<Hobbsee> yeah, must be time for a kernel upload.
<Hobbsee> gutsy's boring.  it actually works.
<lifeless> hardon time
<lifeless> and
<lifeless> turkish food; I'm hanging out for that
<Hobbsee> ...
<lifeless> down near jeff and pia's, theres a most excellent turkish place.
 * persia suspects channel skew
<Hobbsee> lifeless: goign to go visit them?
<lifeless> thats the current place
<Hobbsee> sounds like fun
<lifeless> :)
<Ahmuck> i would love to see a p2p tv app in a deb.  sopcast has a linux version for thier player, unlike joost
<persia> Right.  Isn't there a plethora of places that indicate one should file  bug for that request?
 * minghua wonders if Ahmuck thinks #ubuntu-motu channel as post office to Santa or something...
<Hobbsee> minghua: likely from the forums
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> he is actualy from my LUG, figures lol
<nixternal> shoot, if santa is watching, then I want a new car (preferably one of them new Honda hydrogen ones), some new computers (preferably the fastest thing God could ever think of), and world peace!
<persia> imbrandon: Could you pass a clue followed by a solid thwack?
<imbrandon> persia: definately
<imbrandon> speaking of LUG i havent seen pwnguin lately, he must be afk for the holidays
<somerville33> Hey
<somerville33> I'm getting an error when I attempt to generate an interdiff
<somerville33> cody-somerville@osunta:~/packages/exaile$ interdiff -z -p1 exaile_0.2.11-0ubuntu1.diff.gz exaile_0.2.11.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz    diff -u exaile-0.2.11/debian/rules exaile-0.2.11.1/debian/rules
<somerville33> --- exaile-0.2.11/debian/rules
<somerville33> +++ exaile-0.2.11.1/debian/rules
<somerville33> interdiff: hunk-splitting is required in this case, but is not yet implemented
<somerville33> interdiff: use the -U option to work around this
<imbrandon> somerville33: paste.ubuntu.com is easy to rember :) and umm did you try -U ( not -u like you pasted )
<imbrandon> -u != -U
<imbrandon> leaste not most of the time
<somerville33> That isn't part of the command
<somerville33> It is a part of the output
<somerville33> ie. "diff -u ..."
<imbrandon> ahh
<somerville33> And using -U does not work either
<minghua> interdiff(1) man page says -U needs an argument, i.e. "-U n".
<somerville33> I put 50
<minghua> Maybe too much? :-P  Seriously though, probably interdiff doesn't work well in your case.
<somerville33> Doesn't work with 2 either
<somerville33> And interdiff is the SOP for new package releases
<somerville33> *new upstream releases
<somerville33> I'm just going to dput it to revu than
<somerville33> Could someone review please? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=exaile
<Hobbsee> somerville33: is that tarball any different from what's already in the archive?
<minghua> Hobbsee: If it's a new upstream, the tarball is probably not in the archive?
<Hobbsee> minghua: they re-released 0.2.11, as they screwed it up the first time.
<minghua> Hobbsee: I see.
<Hobbsee> minghua: and, after a while (and after bluekuja packaged it), they decided to rename the tarball to 0.2.11.1
<Hobbsee> but o
<Hobbsee> but i'm not sure if they ever changed the contents of the tarball too
 * imbrandon loves upstream sometimes
<minghua> Sounds pretty crappy upstream releasing work...
<Hobbsee> ahh, it appaers they have changed some stuff
<nxvl> imbrandon: did rudy soponsored your package?
<Hobbsee> somerville33: btw, if you've removed debian/pyversions, arent i supposed to see the file removed, somewhere in the diff between that and current gutsy?
<Hobbsee> er, hardy
<imbrandon> nxvl: yup, it was just uploaded about ~15 minutes ago
<Hobbsee> whatever we're developing for now
<nxvl> imbrandon: nice, now the only thing missing is mi mail :D
<imbrandon> nxvl: i'm actualy working on revising that now, i'll pm you in a half sec
<somerville33> Hobbsee: Yea, I forgot to remove pyversions. As for the tarball, I didn't modify the tarball to not include debian/ from upstream like previous releases.
<Hobbsee> somerville33: then why's it in the changelog?
<somerville33> Hobbsee: A mistake. I'm reuploading.
<Hobbsee> ah
<somerville33> The new version does not contain debian/pyversions
<Hobbsee> cool
<Hobbsee> somerville33: oh, what does "  * debian/README.Debian: touched to rid ghost" mean?
<minghua> Yay, ghost!
<imbrandon> ghosts are cool, much better than clowns
 * imbrandon hates clowns
<imbrandon> nxvl: sleep well, long day tomarrow
<imbrandon> :)
<somerville33> Hobbsee: I removed README.Debian
<somerville33> I suppose I should make that more clear
 * Hobbsee fixes
<somerville33> \o/
<Hobbsee> ah yes, must set up the gpg agent.
<Hobbsee> uploaded
<imbrandon> persia: ok all fixed up and uploaded to debian ( apt-mirror ) , now to just wait to sync it, thanks for the feedback
<imbrandon> i'm still pondering putting a debian/ubuntu specifc conf files in
<somerville33> Hobbsee: You uploaded exaile for me?
<somerville33> Hobbsee: I would have preferred if you had told me what changes I should have made instead of just signing the package yourself and uploading. I'm attempting to become a MOTU and having a list of my uploads on launchpad is handy when applying.
<imbrandon> somerville33: you will still be listed as the uploader via the changelog, she just sponsored the package
<imbrandon> e.g. it will still show up
<somerville33> Not the way she did it
<somerville33> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exaile
<Hobbsee> somerville33: yes
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: no, i had to modify it.
<Hobbsee> somerville33: well, i had to sign it.  </pedant>
<imbrandon> ahh ( you could have still left his name hehehe )
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i did a Riddell.
<imbrandon> i seen :)
<imbrandon> somerville33: aside from that you can stil list it individualy ( i did many packages like thta pre-MOTU )
<imbrandon> that*
<imbrandon> ahh 4 bugs closed tonight , i feel better
<nand`> hiya! I'd like a review of the ike package please : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ike  (one ACK to go)
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> morning dholbach
<Hobbsee> somerville33: you'll probalby end up getting enough stuff uploaded that it wont matter for one upload, btw
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<somerville33> Hobbsee: Well, hopefully you'll be able to give a good recommendation by that point ;]
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<dholbach> heya imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> ...
<StevenK> ..
<Hobbsee> LaserRock: ponies!
<\sh> moins
<\sh> if anyone is interessted in cool music created with just a guitar, a gameboy, a C64 and two creative guys, check out http://www.sourcecode.de/node/924 :) download of music for free under CC license :)
 * proppy hugs dholbach
 * dholbach hugs proppy back
<\sh> Nstrike...ircii-pana aka bitchx is removed from debian :)
<proppy> dholbach: up to a one Q&A question :) ?
<dholbach> proppy: yeah :-)
 * highvoltage hugs the entire *#motu* (Friday!)
<warp10> Hi all!
<proppy> dholbach: I see a bug status I was assigned change from In progress to Triaged
<proppy> Is that a bad thing ?
<proppy> :)
<proppy> I mean I not very familiar with the "triaged" status
<proppy> outside of the hospital context
<proppy> It means "sorted" but sorted into what ?
<dholbach> proppy: it means that the problem in the bug is well-understood, but that there's nothing to review yet
<dholbach> if there is, it should be 'in progress'
<proppy> oh ok
<proppy> I see
<proppy> :)
<dholbach> I linked to the policy decision I guess
<proppy> dholbach: you're right I forgot to read the header of the mail
<dholbach> np
<proppy> dholbach: sorry for the disturbance :)
 * dholbach hugs proppy
<proppy> let's turn in back to In progress then !
<proppy> dholbach: If i understand correctly it's fine to turn in progress when there is on REVU for example ?
<dholbach> yeah
<proppy> if there is example in a tooklit library, IIRC then need to be packaged in a separate nonlib package ?
<proppy> ex: libjuce, libjuce-dev, juce
<tjaalton> any idea how to make a for loop in a makefile that updates a variable?
<tjaalton> "@for pkg in $(PKG); do ENV="$(ENV) $$pkg"; done" doesn't work
<mok0> Does someone have 10 minutes to help me with a merge?
<mok0> I've never done it before
<persia> mok0: Sure.  Which package?
<mok0> eigen
 * Fujitsu wonders how 60GiB of local mirror manages to evaporate.
<persia> mok0: OK.  The first thing to check is to make sure the tarballs are the same.
<mok0> I only have 1
<mok0> eigen_1.0.5.orig.tar.gz
<persia> mok0: From where did you get that?
<mok0> grab-merge.sh
 * persia grumbles about grab-merge.
<persia> mok0: OK.  Do you have the .dsc file for the latest Ubuntu upload?
 * mok0 shrugs
<mok0> eigen_1.0.5-1ubuntu1.dsc
<persia> You can compare that to the latest .dsc file for the latest Debian upload, to make sure that the md5sums for the orig.tar.gz matches.
<mok0> ok
<persia> Sometimes with -0ubuntuX to -1 there are tarball differences which make it tricky.
<mok0> looks good
<mok0> same md5
<mok0> I'm confused by all the diff.gz's
<persia> mok0: Great news: we can do this the simple way.  I usually ignore all the diff.gz files, as they never help me much for a merge.
<mok0> OK
<persia> Unfortunately, it looks like there is no "base" version for eigen, which again makes it a little harder, as we can't compare two branches to a common root.
<mok0> I think there is a weirdness when interdiff -z debian ubuntu
<persia> I'd start with `debdiff eigen_1.0.5-0ubuntu2.dsc eigen_1.0.5-1.dsc` to find out what is changing, and if there is anything being removed that we'd prefer.
<mok0> It looks like the date of the initial release in changelog was changed
<persia> mok0: We don't need interdiff, because the tarball is the same.  interdiff -z is rather verbose, and I generally recommend interdiff -z -p1 for human consumption.
<persia> mok0: The initial release date change would be correct, as each represents an initial release for a specific distribution.
<mok0> But it was changed in debian
<mok0> relative to what J.Ridell started out with
<persia> mok0: Based on http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/eigen.html, I don't see any change in Debian, just an upload.  An initial release in Ubuntu is not important to Debian.
<persia> Looking at debian/copyright, it appears that the Ubuntu version was based off that of the Debian Maintainer anyway, so it oughtn't be much variation.
<mok0> ok
<mok0> eigen_1.0.5-1.patch is null
<mok0> which is weird
<persia> mok0: That's an artifact due to merges.ubuntu.com not being a perfect merger, it's currently a human-intelligence problem.
<persia> Essentially, MoM gets confused if there is no base version from which to branch.
 * mok0 's head just exploded
<mok0> you know, it *should* build
<persia> So, the only thing you need to do is decide whether the changes to debian/cdbs/cmake.mk and debian/cdbs/kde.mk are good changes.  If you think Debian is doing the right thing, you'll want a sync.  If you think they need tweaking for Ubuntu, you'll want to generate a merge.  Let me know which you decide, and I'll help you with the next step.
<mok0> ok, thanks persia. I need to go to a seminar now, but I'll continue when I get back. Catch you later!
<persia> mok0: Sure.
<warp10> dholbach: Hi! Pitti told me there is an existing list of software which needs packaging for Ubuntu. Where is it?
<persia> warp10: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging contains a list of 480 items, some of which are in progress, but most of which need help.
<warp10> thanks persia, I'll check it out. Anyway, probably pitti was spoking about another list somwehere on the internet (not in launchpad), but your link should be fine for my needs.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh wrong tab
<persia> warp10: Daniel maintains a list of needs-packaging bugs that have been committed to REVU, but I don't think that's a good list for a packager to hit: it's more a list for reviewers.
<persia> That list is at the bottom of http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<warp10> persia: ah, ok. Thank you :)
<mok0> persia: grrr, the seminar is in 3 hrs
<persia> mok0: And after you've gone down to find an empty room?  How annoying.
<mok0> persia: wrt eigen, I think debian took over the ubuntu pacakge
<mok0> persia: yes :-(
<mok0> I think it can be synced
<persia> mok0: I think Ubuntu grabbed a Debian pre-release, and Debian caught up.  Note the packaging at the bottom of debian/copyright.
<mok0> the debian version still has the ubuntu mods
<mok0> so what do you think?
<mok0> in such a case we drop the ubuntu tag in release, right?
<dholbach> nixternal: can you send "REVU: Accepted: ..." mails to ubuntu-motu@ next time?
<dholbach> nixternal: I just came across kopete-plugin-thinklight and kwest - it'd be nice if we could track all the stuff that goes into NEW
<persia> mok0: Generally, it's worth syncing in these cases.  I don't understand the reasons for the changes to the CDBS includes, and don't understand why they aren't being pulled by build-depends anyway.  If the Debian source builds properly, and generates a proper package, it is preferred.
<mok0> I'll try to pbuilder it
<mok0> Success
<persia> mok0: That's a good start.  Next step would be to compare the dpkg --contents output of the two packages to make sure that things are going in the right places.
<mok0> So, the ubuntu version to build is... ?
<mok0> the old or the merged?
<persia> mok0: If the Debian package is good, it's better to just file a bug requesting a sync.
<persia> This bug needs to include information on the nature of the Ubuntu changes, the reason why they aren't required, and the Debian changelog since the last Ubuntu version (in this case, the entire changelog).
<mok0> persia: the problem is, I can't reproduce those differences. When I unpack the source packages, there are no differences
<persia> mok0: Really?  That's odd.  In that case, I'd just go for a sync.
<mok0> persia: indeed
<mok0> ... what a boring package to merge ;-) It's just a bunch of C++ header files, anyway....
<mok0> persia: In fact, I don't know what the files in debian/cdbs/ are for...
<persia> mok0: Aren't they included in debian/rules?
<mok0> persia: yes
<mok0> kde.mk ??? why is THAT there?
<persia> I'd say they helped build the package then
<persia> mok0: See, maybe you do want a merge, to use the normal kde.mk, and build-depend on the standard provider :)
<mok0> persia: you mean fix the packaging bug?
<mok0> I'll take a look
<persia> mok0: Yep.  One of the things we try to do with merges is make sure that the Ubuntu packages are nice and clean.  It'd be nice to do that for everything, but it's especially important for Ubuntu versioned packages.
<mok0> persia: but isn't it preferable with a sync? And perhaps to contact the debian packager with the change?
<mok0> there is also a dependence on quilt, but no patches
<persia> mok0: There's too schools of thought.  I believe we should just fix it, notify Debian, and hope for a future sync.  Others believe we should notify Debian and wait, and then do a sync.  As we don't support users at this point in the cycle, it doesn't really matter which school you join, although if you follow my opinion, you're promising to pay attention later.
<persia> s/too/two/
<mok0> persia: I'll try fixing it
<mok0> persia: and go on with the merge.
<persia> mok0: Thanks.  Just please watch Debian: if we can make a sync later (even after DIF) to reduce the Ubuntu variation, it will make it easier in the future.
<mok0> persia: I'll ping you for the next step
<persia> mok0: You'll likely do better to ask for help with the next step generally.  I'll answer if I'm around, but you shouldn't have to wait for me if I'm not :)
<mok0> persia: sure, thx
<proppy> I've got  a question about installing headers in a -dev packages
<proppy> since the Makefile miss an install rule
<proppy> I've to install the headers myself
<proppy> the header are mixed with sources in a src/ subdirectory
<proppy> the only command I know to mirror a directory tree with excluding some file is rsync
<proppy> is it worth to add rsync as a build-depend for that ?
<persia> proppy: No, you really want to do it with dh_install.
<persia> dh_install accepts some arguments to exclude files, or can specify files to be included on an individual basis, as proves more convenient to you.
<proppy> you mean dh_install when it don't rely on an .install file ?
<proppy> s/don't/doesn't
<persia> proppy: I think dh_install can do it either way, but I'll admit that the finer points of convincing dh_install to do the right thing are beyond me.  The manual page is a little confusing, but worth reading.
<TheMuso> You also want to be sure that you are placing the header files where other packages would expect to find them when being built.
<proppy> persia: reading it right now
<proppy> TheMuso: yep there are no other package right now
<proppy> TheMuso: but I guess creating a subdirectory for the whole library and adding a .pc file is fine doesn't it ?
<TheMuso> proppy: Nevertheless, if you do intend to package other software that uses it, or even if not, I would still make sure you have it correct.
<TheMuso> proppy: Yes that would work. Does other software exist that depends on this package yet?
<persia> proppy: It's only good to have a private library if you know there will never be a client package.  Otherwise you end up with a mess like we have with firefox today.
<proppy> TheMuso: I plan to release software I've done using this package
<mok0> persia: I know what's going on now. Like you said, jridell took over a prerelease, which has since been put into Sid. The change in the debian/cdbs/ directory (which _is_ required) has to do with an update to KDE4. The debian changelog only contains the initial entry.
<mok0> persia: so I think it's sync.
<TheMuso> proppy: Ah ok.
<persia> mok0: Excellent.  Good research.  Now, does it need a build-depends tweak and deletion of debian/cbds/kde.mk, or does a sync generate the right binary?
<persia> mok0: Right.  Time skew.  Just create the sync bug then, and subscribe the sponsors.
<LucidFox> dholbach, kwest was actually rejected from the queue, so setting the bug as "Fix Released" was a bit premature
<mok0> ok, i'll do that
<proppy> TheMuso: I know a few people who are using it for crossplateform apps
<TheMuso> proppy: Ok.
<dholbach> LucidFox: I misintepreted https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kwest then, sorry - could you add a link to the current source package and set back to 'in progress' please?
<TheMuso> proppy: Just as long as they know how to reference the headers.
<proppy> but everybody seems to rely on uncompressing the tarball
<proppy> and directly fetch header from here
<LucidFox> dholbach> sure
<dholbach> LucidFox: you ROCK - thanks!
<proppy> TheMuso: every code I've seen include it just like that include "juce.h" <juce.h>
<TheMuso> proppy: Ok.
<TheMuso> proppy: I didn't know it was new code for software that hadn't been developed yet.
<TheMuso> I've just seen people screw up headers when the package didn't offer make install.
<proppy> There is some software already developed for it, but no package since the base library is not packaged
<proppy> nor installable
<TheMuso> Meeting in 30 minutes...
 * TheMuso wonders if the quietness of this channel reflects on the possible number of meeting attendees.
 * \sh 's online ,-)
<proppy> TheMuso: where ?
<TheMuso> proppy: In #ubuntu-meeting in approx 10 minutes.
<dholbach> MOTU Meeting in 8 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> :)
 * TheMuso will be there, whilst poking some packages into line. :)
<proppy> thanks
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sistpoty|work> motu meeting about to start in #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> what is SRU?
<Hobbsee> !sru
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<highvoltage> aaah, thanks Hobbsee
<highvoltage> !uvf
<ubotu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
<highvoltage> ah right.
<rexbron> I have an issue with a debian upstream package that seemes to include patched sources in the diff.gz
<Fujitsu> rexbron: What is said issue?
<rexbron> as a result, when I try and build the package, the patch rule fails
<rexbron> Fujitsu: It's the package gtk2-engines-murrine (which is in main)
<Fujitsu> rexbron: Is it a patch that you added that fails to apply?
<rexbron> Fujitsu: we sent a patch upstream and now have to merge the package as the debian maintainer does things different;y
<Fujitsu> rexbron: You need to make the patch in debian/patches apply over whatever is in the rest of the source.
<rexbron> Fujitsu: I am unfamiler with quilt, but it seemes that the source is not being unpatched when a source package is built
<Fujitsu> rexbron: Oh dear... so all the patches are applied in the Debian .diff.gz?
<rexbron> Fujitsu: it is only one patch, but still
<rexbron> ugly
<rexbron> as a result, trying to rebuild the source package fails
<Fujitsu> rexbron: Has that patch perhaps been applied upstream?
<rexbron> perhaps in SVN, but not in the latest release
<Fujitsu> So Debian has done evil things. Nice of them.
<Fujitsu> You'll have to either unpatch the actual files (probably clearn), or drop the patch from debian/patches.
<Fujitsu> s/clearn/cleaner/, damn lag.
<rexbron> Fujitsu: isn't dropping the patch unadviseable?
<rexbron> Since this is a main package, i will take it up in -devel
<TheMuso> Well that was short and sweet.
<rexbron> Fujitsu: Now this is odd, when I try and unpatch it myself (using the command in the rules file) it does not work....
 * TheMuso will get these two uploads done, then hit the sack.
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee, :D
 * persia celebrates the abolishment of ircii-pana from hardy
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A Session in #ubuntu-classoom in 20 minutes
<Fujitsu> persia: Yep... but we've got 4 releases of it left.
<Fujitsu> All with the lovely security issues.
<proppy> ircii-pana  ?
<Fujitsu> proppy: aka bitchx.
<proppy> !info ircii-pana
<ubotu> Package ircii-pana does not exist in gutsy
<persia> proppy: BitchX
<Fujitsu> !info bitchx hardy
<proppy> BitchX is bad ? :)
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  At least one goes away in 5 months...
<Fujitsu> proppy: Dead and full of security holes.
<ubotu> bitchx: Advanced Internet Relay Chat client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:1.1-4ubuntu4 (hardy), package size 1515 kB, installed size 6524 kB
<Fujitsu> Nooooo, it's not dead yet!
 * rexbron is really anoyed
<persia> Fujitsu: Wait for the publisher run
<DktrKranz> \sh, ming looking at tikiwiki at some point? It has *many* security fixes
<rexbron> persia: Do you have experience with quilt
<DktrKranz> s/fixes/issues/
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: Many? I doubt it. See wordpress and phpmyadmin.
<persia> rexbron: Yes, but I've a bit of an immediate stack right now, aside from my queue.  The wiki patching guide has a nice example.
<rexbron> persia: Does it show up in diff.gz?
<persia>  rexbron: quilt patches should be in debian/patches in the diff.gx
<DktrKranz> Fujitsu, didn't check these two, but upstream developers mailed me a looooong list of vulns
<rexbron> persia: ok, time it yell at the debian maintainer
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: Are there more than the six CVEs that I see?
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: wordpress has 42, for comparison.
<DktrKranz> Fujitsu, IIRC, they released two security releases recently
<DktrKranz> don't know exactly how many CVEs are involved, though
<DktrKranz> 42? Yay! Is wordpress branded Micros...omething? :D
<proppy> hi norsetto!
<norsetto> so, where is this fantastic Q&A session everybody is speaking of?
<norsetto> heya proppy
<proppy> norsetto: you've just missed the meeting !
<highvoltage> hey norsetto
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: wordpress should die die die.
<highvoltage> what's wrong with wordpress?
<norsetto> highvoltage: hi there. Did you see the last mail from dholbach?
<DktrKranz> no, my poor blog :(
 * Fujitsu wonders how many times more vulnerabilites the PHP webapps have over the total of the rest of the archive.
<highvoltage> norsetto: let me check...
<Fujitsu> highvoltage: It has so many security vulnerabilities it is really not funny.
<DktrKranz> what about phpBB?
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: That's not good either.. let me check.
<Fujitsu> Just the 20 for it.
<Fujitsu> And I haven't triaged them yet.
<highvoltage> Fujitsu: ouch. i run wordpress too :(
<DktrKranz> mh...
<DktrKranz> not many, if compared with WP
<Fujitsu> Looks like they'll all affect at least Dapper, though.
<Fujitsu> Except for one or two.
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: phpmyadmin has 22.
<highvoltage> win 36
<Fujitsu> drupal 25...
<Fujitsu> (there are a bit less than 1000 overall)
<\sh> DktrKranz, sure...can you give me a list of CVEs ? :)
<DktrKranz> \sh, of course :)
<persia> Right.  It's not woth a competition.  They're all bad: the competition is to see who can get to 0 first :)
<Fujitsu> So those 4 alone make up more than 10% of the total...
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> there are some packages which we can't fix...and sometimes I think it's not worth the time
<DktrKranz> heh, I think it's easier to fix bug #1 than having webapps 0 CVEs
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Fujitsu> persia: The solution seems to be to ban people who write PHP webapps.
<persia> Fujitsu: Maybe, or perhaps to ban PHP webapps?
<\sh> especially the php stuff...it's broken by default somehow, and seeing many php projects to releasing any patches for those issues, but new versions is quite difficult to follow up
<highvoltage> Fujitsu: yeah!
<Fujitsu> persia: Possibly, but they'll probably take their coding practises to other languages.
 * TheMuso finally kills off another merge.
<highvoltage> Fujitsu: you'll write me a django/turbogears based blog, right? :)
<Fujitsu> \sh: phpmyadmin is a whole lot better, but the rest are terrible.
<persia> Fujitsu: Maybe.
<\sh> other projects like drupal are quite good...but not all versions in our archives can be fixed as well...
<Fujitsu> Quite a number of the wordpress CVEs mention that it's quite conceivably a PHP bug, but they can't tell. That's not encouraging.
<DktrKranz> \sh. Gotta go right now. Mind if I forward you tikiwiki developers' mail?
<\sh> Fujitsu, we need some fixes to php4 in dapper...there is a hell of a lot crap
<\sh> DktrKranz, sure, please do sh@sourcecode.de
<Fujitsu> \sh: Note that php4 officially dies in a month.
<DktrKranz> \sh, I will flood your mail again :)
<\sh> Fujitsu, right, but we have it in dapper and we should fix it somehow ;)
<DktrKranz> See you later :)
<norsetto>  proppy: did I miss anything interesting?
<\sh> btw..if you need some nice music while you are doing some work on universe, follow the green signs at http://www.sourcecode.de/content/cool-music-revealed :)
<\sh> dholbach, it's also something for you as DJ :)
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see that drupal5 is actually up-to-date with fixes in Gutsy. I didn't notice, because of that removed Soyuz feature.
<\sh> Fujitsu, yepp...:)
<\sh> Fujitsu, I added some fixes to it
<\sh> oh no...i did that for feisty
<\sh> feisty should be up2date in a few, when I get the "approved" mail from our security team
<Fujitsu> \sh: Which releases does bug #162385 affect?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 162385 in drupal5 "[Security] Several Security Issues for drupal 5.x before 5.3" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162385
<Fujitsu> Just Feisty?
<\sh> Fujitsu, feisty
<huats> hello everybody
<\sh> Fujitsu, jepp..in gutsy it was geser who fixed it
<\sh> Fujitsu, for the 4.x releases I still have to check...but most likely it's "un"fixable
<persia> mok0: You need to include the debian changelog in a sync request description :)
<\sh> Fujitsu, what about bug #162296, in hardy and debian it's removed on my request (debian removed it on my request)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 162296 in ircii-pana "CVE-2007-4584 stack based buffer overflow via long MODE command" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162296
<Fujitsu> \sh: I really don't know. It will just have to be left to rot, I guess.
<\sh> Fujitsu, and reading the bug report from debian it won't be fixed in the future...
<persia> \sh: It's fixed in hardy: the other releases are a little harder.
<proppy> norsetto: ~SRU team is back | but not merged with ~uvf | then will be a special meeting for security issue | and dholbach will figure about timezone issue
<\sh> persia, you mean bitchx? in hardy it's removed :)
<proppy> but I may have got it completly wrong
<persia> \sh: Yes, yes, and thank you :)
 * norsetto hugs proppy, the best meeting's digest he has ever met
<\sh> persia, don't thank me, but thank debians ftpmaster != elmo
<\sh> where is motu-faq session now?
<Fujitsu> Ideally we send an email to our universe security announcement list notifying people of impending doom from continuing to use bitchx.
<persia> \sh: I thought you requested it, but thanks also go to elmo and pitti :)
<persia> \sh: #ubuntu-classroom
<\sh> persia, yeah...after talking to nion who agreed that's better to remove it without having a living upstream
<TheMuso> Ok, packages uploaded, I'm off to bed.
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<\sh> Fujitsu, what about a transitional package of ircii-pana with depends on irssi ? ;)
<Fujitsu> Night TheMuso.
 * Fujitsu goes too.
<\sh> Fujitsu, for releases before hardy
<Fujitsu> \sh: That is evil and Kees would murder you.
<\sh> Fujitsu, I think so ;)
<Fujitsu> Anyway, night all.
<Fujitsu> Tomorrow is security update and working out what ate my mirror and what else it ate day.
<persia> night Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Night persia
<propeat> night
<pochu> does someone remember where the ubuntu logo fonts are? Or what the package is called?
<persia> pochu: ttf-ubuntu-title maybe?
<pochu> persia: looks like, thanks :)
<pochu> yeah that is
<proppy> just uploaded juce to REVU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=juce
<effie_jayx> well
<effie_jayx> I gotta get back to the conference
<effie_jayx> tonigh I will hack another bug
<huats> norsetto: my dear friend how are you ?
<effie_jayx> and be as thorough as I was in lesson 5
<norsetto> huats: hey, como on in the classroom
<nenolod> juce on revu contains files outside of debian
<nenolod> this is a bad practice. please don't do it ;)
<huats> norsetto: it is over, I think
<nenolod> proppy, ^^
<proppy> nenolod: strange let me take a look
<huats> norsetto: you were again looking by the window, and not listening the master dholbach
<huats> :)
<dholbach> master...? pffft :)
<proppy> nenolod: thanks it was my fault I forget to clean the dir before building :)
<huats> dholbach: jono  said once : "with daniel the packaging Master"... I am just repeating :D
<nenolod> proppy, also, you should try to shoot for debian inclusion too
<nenolod> </usual line>
<proppy> nenolod: you mean uploading it to mentors at the same times ?
<nenolod> proppy, right
<proppy> nenolod: ok
<norsetto> stdin: all are kde 4 packages in gutsy-backports already?
<stdin> norsetto: no, just kdelibs and kdepimlibs so far (i think)
<norsetto> stdin: ok, thanks!
<proppy> how should I bump REVU upload ?
<proppy> I mean should I increase a version number somehow
<norsetto> proppy: doh?
<norsetto> proppy: just upload it
<proppy> like juce-0ubuntu1~revu0 ?
<proppy> juce-0ubuntu1~revu1
<proppy> ?
<norsetto> proppy: keep it at the same version number, no need to change it for revu
<proppy> norsetto: yes but it's hard to figure which upload we are talking about if the same version if overwritten ?
<proppy> oh ok
<proppy> then forcing the dput should be fine
<proppy> maybing I confusing myself with ppa practices
<norsetto> proppy: yes, use dput -f, or remove the .upload file
<proppy> recommended pastebin commandline client ?
<Pici> pastebinit?
<proppy> thanks
<proppy> by default poastebinit rely on the unavailable http://paste.stgraber.org :)
<persia> proppy: You've hit the MOTU ideal: recursive patch requirements :)  Patch that to point at paste.ubuntu.com, and submit your paste :)
<proppy> persia: will be glad to do that just after my revu upload :)
<proppy> arg doesn't know if it supports paste.ubuntu.com :)
<stgraber> proppy: you can -b http://pastebin.com
<stgraber> proppy: unfortunately I'm not the one managing paste.stgraber.org (even if that's on my domain), I'll probably host one myself if the website isn't back shortly
<proppy> stgraber: yep I just tried that :)
<mok0> Does someone have time to help me with some merge questions
<norsetto> mok0: yes?
<mok0> norsetto: I
<mok0> norsetto: I found a conflict in the control file, and fixed it. Should I change DaD's entry in changelog with my own?
<norsetto> mok0: you should always do that
<mok0> norsetto: OK. Then, I test the package in a hardy pbuilder, yes?
<norsetto> mok0: yes
<mok0> ... and upload to... ?
<bluekuja> mok0, make a debdiff
<bluekuja> and open a bug report
<bluekuja> against the package you are merging
<mok0> A debdiff on the source package?
<bluekuja> a debdiff between the new ubuntu package and the debian one
<bluekuja> new Ubuntu package (your one)
<bluekuja> mok0, that's explained around in the docs anyway
<mok0> I'll have a go at it
<mok0> ... and have another look at the docs.
<bluekuja> mok0, when the debdiff is ready, just open a bug where you report any information needed
<bluekuja> then subscribe u-u-s
<mok0> bluekuja: ok, will do. I've done that before
<bluekuja> mok0, fine. so why do you ask <mok0> ... and upload to... ?
<bluekuja> :)
<mok0> Because I wasn't sure whether to upload the source package to REVU for review
<bluekuja> is it a new upstream release?
<bluekuja> or just a merge?
<mok0> Merge
<bluekuja> REVU is not needed then
<mok0> OK
 * mok0 thinks a picture of the process is starting to take form in his brain
<bluekuja> ^^
<mok0> :)
<bluekuja> mok0, you should read about "how to report a sync request" as well
<bluekuja> I've commented one of yours before..
<mok0> I did it wrong?
<bluekuja> yes
<bluekuja> check it out
<mok0> Yike
<mok0> s
<bluekuja> and fix it
<mok0> ok, it's the eigen package, right?
<bluekuja> yep
<mok0> OK, I'll do that. Whew, there is lots to learn about this workflow
<mok0> They should have an option over at LP, so you could just click: "This is a sync request"
<bluekuja> ^^
<bluekuja> it's impossible to have
<bluekuja> a rationale changes between package and package
<mok0> Hmm
<mok0> If you say so...
<mok0> I though computers were supposed to be smart ;-)
<mok0> thought
<bluekuja> yep, but for this case we need manual changes
<mok0> Errr, not if you just want to sync debians version and throw away ubuntus??
<bluekuja> sorry?
<bluekuja> every sync needs a rationale
<mok0> Debian has a new version of the package that compiles perfectly and needs no specific customization
<bluekuja> (you don't need a rationale if the package is NEW)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: every drop of ubuntu changes needs a rationale - not every sync.  </pedant>
<mok0> it's the same version
<Hobbsee> gh
<mok0> Debian started to distribute the same version
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, yes, but I was right as well. Every sync *request* need a rationale (apart from NEW)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, I forgot to add "request"
 * mok0 checks out LP
<mok0> Yrrk
<mok0> bluekuja: you want those changelog details in the bug report
<bluekuja> yes
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, is that what you mean?
<mok0> ... and the build log?
<bluekuja> mok0, what?
<mok0> attach the build log, I guess
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: not really.  you dont actually need a rationale to request a sync - assuming it doesnt get hit by feature freeze and friends
<bluekuja> yes, it's written in my comment
<Hobbsee> you need a rationale on why any ubuntu changes can be dropped, though
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, agreed
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: your statement falls over when you request a sync with no ubuntu changes after DIF.
<mok0> There were never any ubuntu changes in this package
<bluekuja> mok0, you should write that then
<mok0> It was grabbed from debian before released
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: (because you don't need a rationale for that, but by your logic, you do)
<bluekuja> you can't assume me to know it
<mok0> bluekuja: I thought I wrote that?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, exactly, plus a package gets synced automatically if there are no ubuntu changes, right?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, I mean at a new revision/release
<bluekuja> mok0, no
<bluekuja> mok0, write things clearer
<mok0> bluekuja: ok I'll do my best
<bluekuja> mok0, thanks
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: until debian import freeze, yes.  after that, no.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, exactly
<Hobbsee> which is why your statement wasnt' really correct.  </pedant> :)
<bluekuja> lol
<mok0> Hobbsee, bluekuja: ping me when you come to an agreement ;-)
<bluekuja> mok0, add a build log
<Hobbsee> mok0: the agreement was that i was correct, and that bluekuja needed to change his opinion.  this is simple :)
<Hobbsee> mok0: at the moment though, as everything's still autosyncing, the point is moot.
<bluekuja> mok0, if there are no changes, *write* it
<bluekuja> mok0, and as Hobbsee said, it should be autosynced now
<mok0> bluekuja: So dont be verbose?
<bluekuja> mok0, question here is....why the package is not autosynced?
<bluekuja> mok0, no Ubuntu changes, no DIF
<bluekuja> so why do you ask for a sync?
<mok0> Because it existed in a 0ubuntu1 release
<mok0> now it becomes available with tiny changes
<mok0> It's just a bunch of C++ header files
<bluekuja> mok0, the section is different from the one added by riddel
<bluekuja> mok0, actually debian has libs
<bluekuja> and Riddell added libdevel
<bluekuja> Riddell, what do you think about eigen sync?
<mok0> bluekuja: I don't follow. Is that important?
<bluekuja> mok0, actually Riddell manually changed the section from libs to libdevel
<bluekuja> mok0, Debian has libs
<Riddell> bluekuja: (without looking at the situation) I'm for syncing it
<bluekuja> mok0, if we sync this, the package will get into libs again
<bluekuja> Riddell, your last change can be dropped then?
<bluekuja> Riddell, the section one
<mok0> I can't see Riddell's response
<bluekuja> mok0, huh?
<Riddell> bluekuja: that was just to please the archive admin
<bluekuja> Riddell, ok, fine. I gonna ack it then
<bluekuja> thanks for answering
<Riddell> can't remember if I poked debian about that, but I can do so again
<bluekuja> yes, it would be great
<bluekuja> :)
<Ubulette> bluekuja, ahh, you're back :)
<bluekuja> Ubulette, heya :)
<mok0> bluekuja: so I'm off the hook?
<Ubulette> bluekuja, any progress with seamonkey ?
<bluekuja> Ubulette, thanks for reminding it, I think I gonna process it now
<Ubulette> bluekuja, if not, don't worry, i can ask someone else
<Ubulette> oh, good
 * bluekuja grabbing reminder mail from Ubulette 
<bluekuja> mok0, let's wait Debian for that
<bluekuja> mok0, Riddell gonna forward the request
<bluekuja> mok0, so we can sync the package with his latest change as well
<bluekuja> mok0, maybe add a comment about that
<bluekuja> and don't subscribe u-u-s until a new revision gets uploaded in Debian
<bluekuja> Ubulette, something changed in the branch?
<Ubulette> no
<bluekuja> k
 * mok0 wipes sweat from forehead
<bluekuja> :D
<Ubulette> bluekuja, just pull to be sure, i don't remember where you stopped
<bluekuja> ok
<bluekuja> Ubulette, please give me the exactly branch url
<bluekuja> instead of LP one
<bluekuja> so I can branch it directly
<Ubulette> that's the one
<bluekuja> I mean http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/seamonkey/seamonkey-1.1.dev
<bluekuja> give me this next time
<Ubulette> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/seamonkey/seamonkey-1.1.dev
<Ubulette> oh
<bluekuja> yes, that's what you gave me
<bluekuja> :)
<Ubulette> you're picky. it's in the header ;)
<bluekuja> hehe
<bluekuja> Ubulette, is it the NEW iceape in fact?
<Ubulette> eh?
<bluekuja> which package does it replace?
<Ubulette> iceape but only in hardy so far
<bluekuja> k
<Ubulette> no decision taken for gutsy as of today
<Ubulette> let's wait for asac and gnomefreak to be back to discuss what's best for gutsy
<bluekuja> okk
<bluekuja> Ubulette, I'm building it
<bluekuja> It will take 30 mins I guess
<bluekuja> as alwais
<Ubulette> more like 50m ~ 1h depending on how fast your box is
<bluekuja> ah damn :/
<mok0> bluekuja: how can I conveniently see when a new package becomes available from debian?
<mok0> bluekuja: I added a comment at LP
<bluekuja> mok0, it should appear in mom or dad automatically
<mok0> Ah, ok
<bluekuja> mok0, if there are no changes it gets synced
<bluekuja> as we said before
<bluekuja> before DIF
<bluekuja> after DIF everything is blocked
<mok0> But there will be changes
<bluekuja> huh?
<bluekuja> mok0, for eigen?
<mok0> yes
<bluekuja> mok0, debian should change the section
<bluekuja> to libdevel
<bluekuja> and upload a new revision, which will be synced here
<mok0> yes, but there are a couple of other minor things that don't matter
<bluekuja> mok0, like?
<mok0> ubuntu changelog gets zapped
<mok0> because there is no common base version
<bluekuja> mok0, actually I think it doesnt matter since the only changes will be pushed inside Debian
<bluekuja> I don't think the changelog will be zapped for Ubuntu, Hobbsee can you confirm?
<proppy> I don't manage to overwrite my upload on REVU
<proppy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=juce
<bluekuja> mok0, and if you check other packages synced, you'll see they still have Ubuntu changelogs
<mok0> the ones that come from debian?
<bluekuja> yep
<mok0> They sync against ubuntu??
<bluekuja> mok0, no
<geser> bluekuja: no, Debian changelogs don't have Ubuntu entries
<proppy> let's try again
<bluekuja> geser, who said that?
<geser> but LP stores the old changelogs
<bluekuja> geser, and anyway some package got Ubuntu entries
<bluekuja> in Debian
<geser> bluekuja: I haven't seen much Debian changelogs (from Debian) with Ubuntu entries
<bluekuja> I've heard about it in -devel some days ago
<mok0> the problem is, ubuntu version has no debian base version
<bluekuja> geser, I just said "and if you check other packages synced, you'll see they still have Ubuntu changelogs"
<bluekuja> geser, in fact that LP stores old entries
<mok0> bluekuja: a diff3 only works if there is a common base
<bluekuja> mok0, anyway I don't see the problem here
<mok0> there isn't in this case
<mok0> Well, mom can't resolve the conflict that comes
<proppy> what is the REVU rotate time ?
<proppy> 15min ?
<bluekuja> geser, other packages synced = from Debian to Ubuntu
<bluekuja> geser, maybe you misunderstood me :)
<bluekuja> mok0, so?
<bluekuja> mok0, if ubuntu entries gets zapped
<bluekuja> we just sync the package, that will be the same for both distros
<geser> bluekuja: if the Debian maintainer didn't include the Ubuntu entries (which is seldom) then the changelog inside the (new) debs don't have them anymore
<mok0> bluekuja: I'll wait and watch when the update comes. Then we can deal with it :-)
<proppy> oups I was uploading tu upload.ubuntu.com instead of REVU
<proppy> :)
<bluekuja> geser, so LP doesnt store old entries?
<geser> LP has them (more or less) but not the debs
<bluekuja> geser, yes
<bluekuja> geser, binaries dont have them
<bluekuja> but LP yes
<bluekuja> that's what we mean actually
<bluekuja> mok0, agreed
<mok0> bluekuja: cool. Hey it was fun
<bluekuja> mok0, are you sure about what you just said? :)
<mok0> Sure. I'm trying to do another merge, now :-D
<bluekuja> lol
<proppy> juce updated on REVU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=juce
<proppy> nenolod: on mentors as well :)
<mok0> hehehe xtide builds in my brand-new hardy pbuilder...
<lamont> persia: send me email with the details of the package that needs some bootstrapping love, and I'll see what can be done
<mok0> Normally, can the automatic merge cope with diffs in the control file, where Maintainer -> XSBC-Original-Maintainer??
<norsetto> proppy: do you build your packages before uploading to revu?
<proppy> debuild -S -sa
<proppy> on my workstation
<proppy> and debuild -us -uc remotly
<proppy> on http://juce.aminche.com/
<norsetto> proppy: dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<norsetto> proppy: you know why?
<proppy> norsetto: it is because of (proppy) in the changelog ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, and the maintainer doesn't have an ubuntu address
<proppy> maintainer should be MOTU ?
<proppy> and originial maintainer me ?
<proppy> just like if my package was uploaded to debian and patched in ubuntu ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes
<proppy> but about the (proppy) thing
<proppy> my gpg data are looking for something like that
<proppy> in the changelog
<norsetto> proppy: ah, didn't get that before, no, the changelog has an ubuntu number
<geser> mok0: depends
<norsetto> proppy: don't worry about the (proppy)
<proppy> norsetto: ok
<proppy> norsetto: so I can leave it as this ?
<norsetto> proppy: don't upload a new one yet, let me check further
<proppy> norsetto: ok
<geser> mok0: sometimes you get a conflict there, and sometimes not, depends if some other changes were also made (like updated Build-Depends)
<norsetto> proppy: the (proppy) yes, but the maintainer no, you need to change it
<norsetto> proppy: can you add a final separate line to the Description, that differentiate between the two binary packages? Something like "This package contains the development libraries and headers"for the -dev, etc.
<proppy> you mean in the -dev description: add this line "This package contains the development libraries and headers"
<proppy> ?
<norsetto> proppy: for your -dev, it could be a good idea to have it Provides and Conflicts with libjuce so that you only have one -dev at a time installed (unless you want more, then you need to change the name)
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/6419365cb4c5
<norsetto> proppy: I guess that libjuce should be libjuce0?
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/644d2d7e1b78
<norsetto> proppy: better as a separate line (use .)
<proppy> (05:29:27 PM) norsetto: proppy: for your -dev, it could be a good idea to have it Provides and Conflicts with libjuce so that you only have one -dev at a time installed (unless you want more, then you need to change the name) I'm not sure do get this
<norsetto> proppy: ok, whats the problem?
<proppy> how can libjuce-dev depends on libjuce and confligt with it at the same time ?
<norsetto> proppy: as I said, that because your name is wrong
<norsetto> proppy: should be libfooX, where X is the soname
<proppy> oh ok
<proppy> I don't understand this part
<proppy> what is the soname ?
<norsetto> ah ....
<proppy> how can I get more that one installed at a time
<proppy> I thought 0 and 1 suffix were related to ABI changes
<proppy> i.e: if c++ abi change you want a package name change and the conflict provide thing
<proppy> to make sure every you revert-depends get updated
<proppy> but It seems I get it completly wrong
<norsetto> proppy: yes, the soname should be the same if there is no ABI change
<norsetto> proppy: the soname (what you call the 0 and 1 suffix) is an information stored inside the shared library
<norsetto> proppy: you can see it with an objdump command for instance
<norsetto> proppy: wanna check some shared libraries you have installed?
<proppy> norsetto: who set it ?
<norsetto> proppy: upstream, its not distribution dependant
<norsetto> proppy: some sonames are a bit complex (openssl for instance)
<proppy> norsetto: I'm compiling the .so from debian/rules
<norsetto> proppy: yes, thats beacause the upstream makefiles don't do that, right?
<proppy> norsetto: yep
<proppy> norsetto: how I can rigure the so name using objdump objdump -x ?
<norsetto> proppy: let me check the man page
<norsetto> proppy: well, just a grep should do
<mok0> Heh, I've done another merge.
<norsetto> proppy: objdump -p file | grep SONAME I think
<norsetto> proppy: try this (you should have this lib) objdump -p /usr/lib/libgstreamer-0.10.so.0.13.0 | grep SONAME
<norsetto> proppy: you should see  SONAME      libgstreamer-0.10.so.0 (0 is the soname version number)
<proppy> ok
<proppy>   SONAME      libgstreamer-0.10.so.0
<proppy> I don't see it in juce
<norsetto> proppy: yes, because you are trying to be upstream
<proppy> I think I'm missing a part of it
<proppy> is this an arbitrary number ?
<proppy> or is there a meaning attached to it ?
<norsetto> proppy: try objdump -p file | grep NEEDED
<proppy> norsetto: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2168/
<norsetto> proppy: ok, you see these are all sonames
<proppy> yep
<proppy> norsetto: but what do they mean ?
<proppy> is that some kind of versionning thing ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, its mainly abi compatibility
<proppy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soname
<proppy> ok
<norsetto> proppy: but it seems to me that you are trying to cover upstream there, which I don't think its correct
<norsetto> proppy: to tell you the truth, I don't think your package will be accepted on this ground
<proppy> norsetto: for generating the so file ?
<proppy> how is the soname choosen ?
<norsetto> proppy: how would I know? I only know the packaging side of things
<norsetto> proppy: and not much of that too ....
<geser> proppy: by upstream, usually starting at 0 and increased if API/ABI changes
<proppy> ok
<proppy> geser: it's a g++ flags ?
<geser> that's where my knowledge ends
<proppy> norsetto:  (05:29:27 PM) norsetto: proppy: for your -dev, it could be a good idea to have it Provides and Conflicts with libjuce so that you only have one -dev at a time installed (unless you want more, then you need to change the name)
<proppy> norsetto: how can I have more than one -dev at a time on my system ?
<norsetto> proppy: if you name them with the soname version number
<proppy> I guess it's a linkflags
<proppy> ok
<norsetto> proppy: like libjuce0-dev etc.
<proppy> norsetto: but -dev package usually don't change with soname right ?
<norsetto> proppy: some do
<proppy> norsetto: how ok
<dholbach> have a great weekend everybody!
<proppy> dholbach: seeya
<norsetto> dholbach: rock well!
<dholbach> rock on! :-)
<proppy> You should be able to pass "-soname=name" to the linker yourself,
 * dholbach hugs y'all
<norsetto> proppy: your bet is my bet, I'm off my ground here
<proppy> norsetto: I mean I understand It's bad to replace the upstream and all
<proppy> norsetto: that's why I've provided to the upstream a way to generate the dll
<proppy> norsetto: and a premake.lua patch
<proppy> s/dll/so
<norsetto> proppy: well, you would have to take over maintenance of that library replacing effectively upstream
<proppy> norsetto: you mean forking ?
<proppy> so soname usually begin with 0
<norsetto> proppy: not really, I mean providing the linux side of things
<proppy> and get bumped everytime there is an abi change ?
<proppy> norsetto: but by that you mean shipping a tar.gz somewhere with my change it in
<norsetto> proppy: and upstream have responded to your queries?
<proppy> instead of making these change in the debian/ directory
<proppy> norsetto: I'll bump the post in the forum
<norsetto> proppy: or back through proper upstream
<proppy> norsetto: If I maintain a linux friendly upstream
<proppy> norsetto: some of my changes will get in the orig.tar.gz
<proppy> norsetto: instead of being in the debian diff right ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, thats always better
<james_w> proppy: it gets bumped every time there is an incompatible ABI change.
<james_w> proppy: so if an exported function gets removed. There is a tool in ubuntu-dev-tools to try and help you to spot this.
<james_w> if something gets added then you just need to bump the shllibs.
<james_w> and you can deal with some of this better using a version script, but that requires more work from upstream. It's great if you have a lot of reverse-depends.
<proppy> norsetto: post bumpped http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juceforum/viewtopic.php?t=2343&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
<norsetto> proppy: your compilation fails btw
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/26e1d5d4e0eb descriptions ok ?
<norsetto> proppy: I meant as a separate line, use the . as a line separator
<norsetto> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<nxvl_work> there are some packages on qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs that are not on packages.ubuntu.com like amarok2
<nxvl_work> is there any reason for that?
<proppy> norsetto: like this http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/3562d0f8cce2
<norsetto> proppy: yes, here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45577/
<proppy> norsetto: 64bit ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes
<proppy> norsetto: I should made it i386 only then
<proppy> or fix the linking on x64 issue
<proppy> g++ -shared -o bin/libjuce.so bin/intermediate_linux/Release/*.o
<norsetto> proppy: why? Seems like you just forgot the -fPIC option
<proppy> that's the line I've added to generate the so files
<proppy> yep
<proppy> -fPIC is missing
<proppy> I should try to add a SONAME too
<proppy> norsetto: correct me if I'm wrong
<proppy> or anybody :)
<proppy> shared library always need to have a SONAME
<proppy> starting at 0
<norsetto> proppy: upstream makefile is making the static library?
<proppy> and the package name needs to be named against the version with a suffix
<proppy> there is no such thing like libfoo
<proppy> only libfoo0 or libfoo1
<proppy> norsetto: yep
<norsetto> proppy: ok, make sure they use -D_REENTRANT, and you should use that for the shared too
<james_w> proppy: you don't need to have a soname, but if you are going to package it and put it in /usr/lib you should.
<james_w> proppy: and where you start doesn't matter, as long as it increases monotonically, and so 0 is a good start.
<james_w> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html
<norsetto> proppy: have a look at this too: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s-libraries
<proppy> about the package name does it needs to be named after the SONAME ?
<proppy> because I've seen package which aren't
<proppy> IIRC
<LaserRock> if you don't care about having multiple versions available at the same time you can have just -dev
<LaserRock> I think generally the libfoo package has the soname though
<proppy> LaserRock: you mean multiple -dev or non-dev package ?
<proppy> james_w: norsetto: thanks for the links (reading)
<nxvl_work> i miss tge motu-meeting again, didn't i?
<LaserRock> proppy: multiple lib versions
<LaserRock> proppy: like goffice in debian now has goffice 0.4.x and goffice 0.5.x
<LaserRock> so there is a libgoffice0.4 package with a libgoffice0.4-dev
<LaserRock> and also a libgoffice0.5 package with a libgoffice0.5-dev
<proppy> I see
<proppy> 0.5 and 0.4 are SONAME ?
<LaserRock> yeah
<norsetto> nxvl_work: yes
<nxvl_work> :(
<norsetto> nxvl_work: you can check the log
<nxvl_work> norsetto: be sure i will
<Ubulette> bluekuja, are you done ?
<proppy> I don't think there will be multiple ABI version of the library, I mean it's a bad thing isn't it ?
 * proppy is thinking he is completly missing the point
<LaserRock> if the library is in active development I don't think it's possible
<LaserRock> :-)
<LaserRock> even python changes SONAME sometimes ;-)
<proppy> but I thought new so name were introduced by new version of g++ right ?
<LaserRock> no
<proppy> and of stdlib++
<proppy> ok
<proppy> I'm missing the point :)
<LaserRock> a new version on the library
<LaserRock> proppy: the SONAME comes from the library
<proppy> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
<proppy> I see
<proppy> everytime you break the Binary compatibility
<proppy> by removing function by example
<proppy> you bump the SONAME ?
<LaserRock> right
<LaserRock> that's the idea
<proppy> oook
<proppy> and then you name the package against that ?
<LaserRock> right
<proppy> so that people are able to get their program working against old versions ?
<LaserRock> yeah, basically if you write something based on a lib
<LaserRock> you need to know it's not going to change on you
<proppy> so shipping multiple dev package
<LaserRock> so you can tie to a SONAME
<proppy> only people not only to run old program
<LaserRock> right
<LaserRock> so in the goffice example I had earlier
<proppy> but to compile program based on old version of the library
<LaserRock> gnumeric uses the 0.5.x goffice series
<LaserRock> but gchemutils/gchempaint uses the 0.4.x goffice series
<bluekuja> Ubulette, is normal that I see some iceape binaries as well?
<proppy> LaserRock: so for the moment as it's the first version of the package
<proppy> there is no multiple version of the library
<proppy> and then no multiple -dev
<proppy> for now
<Ubulette> bluekuja, dummy transitional packages, yes. otherwise, please show me.
<proppy> my guess is that the upstream doesn't maintain SONAME
<bluekuja> Ubulette, let's move to -mozillateam
<bluekuja> :)
<Ubulette> ok
<proppy> on the basic you've just explained, i.e: everytime I break binary compatibility I bump the library version
<proppy> the upstream does not provide shared library at all
<proppy> so just like norsetto suggested I should take care over it
<proppy> or raise the upstream concern about it
<proppy> right ?
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/7e78b2d01c7a
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, my package has been accepted onto Hardy : https://www.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue/?queue_state=3&queue_text=easycrypt - I have been reading teh contributing page - but its not 100% clear on how to supply a new version
<StevenHarperUK> This is the first time I have done this
<norsetto> proppy: whats that?
<proppy> norsetto: should fix the compilation on x64
<proppy> norsetto: let me upload a new version on REVU
<proppy> norsetto: since I can't test on X64
<StevenHarperUK> Do I create a new Bug named "Candidate revision packagename_version-revision" and follow that procedure?
<norsetto> proppy: no need to upload, I can just do it myself
<StevenHarperUK> Oh also I want to use the translations feature : how do I enable that for : Candidate revision packagename_version-revision
<StevenHarperUK> sorry bad paste : https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/
<proppy> norsetto: http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juceforum/viewtopic.php?p=12927#12927
<norsetto> proppy: well, we shall see
<proppy> norsetto: does it match your concern ?
<norsetto> proppy: my concern is that if upstream don't act I don't see this thing going well
<proppy> norsetto: everything will just go fiiiiiiiiiiiiine :)
<proppy> norsetto: btw does the rules thing seems ok ?
<norsetto> proppy: let me finish this first
<proppy> okkkkk
<proppy> np
<norsetto> proppy: same error
<nxvl_work> mm i'm not sure about a FTBFS bug
<proppy> did -fPIC is passed to g++ ?
<nxvl_work> i first try to build it and it failed, but it was a dependency  error, i update my pbuilder and then it works
<nxvl_work> do i need to report it?
<proppy> norsetto:  did -fPIC get passed to g++ call ?
<james_w> nxvl_work: you could perhaps suggest increasing the Build-Depends version of that package.
<norsetto> proppy: from the log: g++ -fPIC -shared -o bin/libjuce.so bin/intermediate_linux/Release/*.o
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: no, you should update your pbuilder regularly
<proppy> norsetto: ok
<imbrandon> no need to report it
<proppy> norsetto: and exactly same error
<proppy> norsetto: thanks you
<norsetto> proppy: yes, exactly the same
<nxvl_work> ok, moving to next one
<proppy> I have a question regarding library example ?
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: but if the rebuild fixes the FTBFS bug then thats good, there is still something to do
<proppy> should they get shipped in a separate package  ?
<proppy> like binary package 'juce' for exemple ?
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: the thing is that i don't have the server error log, or it is somewhere?
<norsetto> proppy: here http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45587/
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: if no other fixes need to be done to the package , you can either 1) ask for a giveback for the package in #ubuntu-devel or 2) you can append build1 to the version and upload ( signifying just a rebuild )
<norsetto> proppy: usually they will go in the -doc package
<proppy> norsetto: ahah
<proppy> norsetto: recompile with -fPI
<proppy> norsetto: not link with -fPIC
<proppy> norsetto: I should pass -fPIC to the whole compilation
<proppy> not only to the linl step
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: see what i mean ?>
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: i don't really understand 1)
<norsetto> proppy: ok, isn't that what you do with that line? I must admit I didn't check what that is
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: ok jabber me i'll explain 1) a bit more
<nxvl_work> ok
<norsetto> proippy: ok, I see now, you should really compile twice
<proppy> norsetto: nop with that like I link all the .o to a .so file
<norsetto> proppy: ok, I see now, you should really compile twice
<proppy> norsetto: I should compile twice
<proppy> norsetto: and since I can't override CFLAGS of the Makefile without breaking the whole compilation ..
<norsetto> proppy: this is getting hackier and hackier ....
<proppy> norsetto: I can't disagree
<proppy> norsetto: the good part is that I learned a lot of thing :)
<norsetto> proppy: oh yes, you can't beat this for learning :-)
<norsetto> proppy: actually, not much learning from a packaging pov ...
<proppy> norsetto: I'm glad I've understood the SONAME thing :)
<proppy> norsetto: about the need to private a proper Makefile for people to package you stuff too
<proppy> norsetto: I will definitly be aware of that for packaging my own things
<proppy> norsetto: does build: got call for each binary package ?
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  thanks for the log
<norsetto> effie_jayx: np
<norsetto> proppy: the build target?
<norsetto> proppy: thats just per makefile
<norsetto> proppy: or did I misunderstand the question?
<proppy> the debian/rules/build target ?
<norsetto> proppy: ok, but what is the question about build: ?
<proppy> is it called one time for libjuce and libjuce-dev ?
<proppy> or two times :)
<norsetto> proppy: build knows nothing about libjuce or libjuce-dev
<norsetto> proppy: think about a rules files divided in 4 main sections: clean, configure, build and install
<norsetto> proppy: build is where you call make (like for a compilation from source)
<norsetto> proppy: (ok, sometime is not make, is qtmake, or whatever, but the concept is the same)
<proppy> ok I see
<proppy> these are the package generation entry point
<proppy> used by debuild
<norsetto> proppy: so, yes, unless the Makefile provided from upstream already does that, this is something you have to instruct yourself (like you did with the .install files)
<norsetto> proppy: after the install: rule (which is where you invoke upstream makefile to install in the buildd)
<proppy> norsetto: so only the debhelpers actually knows about the deferrent packages ?
<proppy> s/deferrent/different
<norsetto> proppy: well, yes if you tell them
<proppy> norsetto: so I believe debhelper parses the debian/control files ?
<proppy> I see
<norsetto> proppy: yes, some of the debhelper do parse files in debian/ (for sure changelog and control)
<proppy> when you use cdbs
<warp10> Hi superm1. I was looking for an easy merge to do, and I saw xmltv, whose you are the last uploader. May I take care of it? Any suggestion about the merge?
<proppy> you can name your rule after the package name
<proppy> I guess that's why I was a bit confused
<norsetto> proppy: but by default if no package is specified with -p they only act on the first one of the binaries
<norsetto> proppy: yeah, cdbs do take care of that and hides the gory details
<proppy> norsetto: I should take a look at the code
<proppy> norsetto: cause I don't know how to "dynamicaly" call a rule form another one
<norsetto> proppy: debhelper?
<proppy> norsetto: cdbs
<proppy> norsetto: how did they manage to have rules named after packagename ?
<norsetto> proppy: what do you mean dynamically?
<proppy> norsetto: since the rules doesn't know anything about the packagename
<norsetto> proppy: oh, ok, yes, I've stumbled on that snippet not long ago
<proppy> $(patsubst %,binary-install/%,$(DEB_ALL_PACKAGES)
<proppy> ?
<proppy> and I guess debuild set DEB_ALL_PACKAGES env var
<norsetto> proppy: no, thats in buildvars.mk
<proppy> norsetto: /usr/lib/cdbs/list-packages
<norsetto> proppy: but, what is it that you want to do?
<proppy> norsetto: I was just curious, how cdbs managed to call n*package rules, from a single one
<norsetto> proppy: you want to call make twice?
<proppy> 	open (CONTROL, 'debian/control') ||
<proppy> norsetto: yep
<norsetto> proppy: well, what about build: build_1 build_2 for instance ?
<proppy> norsetto: yep or I can inline then in build:
<proppy> but if I understand how to do it staticaly
<proppy> I was wondering how cdbs could do it from a file input
<norsetto> proppy: well, thats most probably done in a second pass
<proppy> or doing variable substitution on Makefile rules dependencies ?
<proppy> norsetto: you can try the following http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/9781079dc3cb
<proppy> norsetto: it compiles only once, with -fPIC passed
<proppy> norsetto: I guess it's bad for the static library
<proppy> norsetto: but at least I will figure out if it fixes the dynamic library one
<norsetto> proppy: yes, thats right, the static one should not be compiled with -fPIC
<hyper___ch> apachelogger__: *ping*
<proppy> norsetto: but does it fix your compilation error on x64 ?
<norsetto> proppy: for the time being is building
<proppy> norsetto: niceee
<proppy> norsetto: thinking about the demo (examples)
<proppy> norsetto: they are linked against the static file, again
<proppy> norsetto: so I believe your point of making a linux friendly upstream is even better
<norsetto> proppy: errr
<proppy> norsetto: same ?
<norsetto> proppy: :(
<proppy> norsetto: same error ?
<norsetto> proppy: like two water drops ...
<norsetto> proppy: gotta go, wifey is calling for dinner
<proppy> ok
<proppy> thanks for the helps
<proppy> see you
<proppy> so do I
<norsetto> proppy: a+
<DktrKranz> nxvl_work, around?
<jpatrick> I think he's at work
<RainCT> hi
<DktrKranz> I guess so :)
<warp10> I am working on a merge, and there is a remaining change (a bugfix) that hasn't been reported to Debian. Should I report it filing a bug on BTS, altough I am not the author of that bugifx?
<nxvl_work> DktrKranz: yep
<slangasek> warp10: yes, please
<DktrKranz> nxvl_work, hi. I looked at bug 164727. I think a give-back can be enough to fix it.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164727 in advi "advi FTBFS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164727
<slangasek> warp10: assuming you can adequately explain the reason for the change, if not feel free to ask for help here?
<nxvl_work> DktrKranz: thats what i have done
<nxvl_work> :D
<warp10> slangasek: ok, thank you!
<DktrKranz> It's a rebuild. A give-back is usually managed by buildd-admins
<nxvl_work> the patch only changes the changelog
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: he is talking about doing 1)
<imbrandon> in our discussion
<imbrandon> e.g. what geser just asked pitti in #ubuntu-devel
<imbrandon> vs a build1 uplaod
<geser> nxvl_work: a new upload isn't needed in that case, simply asking a buildd-admin is enough
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: oh, ok
<nxvl_work> geser: yes but i find better to do it myself instead of asking another person to do it for me, i feel a little lazy doing that way
<imbrandon> ugh i need a personal DD, lol, sponsors are never on at the same time as me
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: rudy is online
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: hejust left for a few hours
<imbrandon> :)
<nxvl_work> oh
<geser> nxvl_work: -XbuildY packages aren't autosynced anymore, so you need to file a sync request later
<nxvl_work> i did't knew that
<nxvl_work> ok going to ubuntu-devel
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: or have you already uploaded it?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: email works in all TZs
<slangasek> personal DDs are expensive to maintain
<LaserJock> hehe
<nxvl_work> slangasek: heh
<DktrKranz> :D
<LaserJock> that'd be kinda funny, "Hello, I'm LaserJock you personal DD, how may I be of service?"
<LaserJock> "Oh, for an actualy upload that's going to cost you $500"
<LaserJock> "Rants on debian-devel on your behalf will be $100/email"
<imbrandon> hahaha
<DktrKranz> Do I need a discount if I have to manage multiple uploads?
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: no i dident upload it
<LaserJock> "Votes are $10, or sometimes a freebie if I feel generous"
<DktrKranz> 500$ the first, 400$ the second... and so on
<imbrandon> mentors are encouraged NOT to sponsor mentees uploads :)
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: ^
<hyper___ch> a question: how can a new package be requested or how can I make a .deb file out of the source?
<imbrandon> !packageguide | hyper___ch
<ubotu> hyper___ch: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<hyper___ch> thx
<LaserJock> what the heck
<LaserJock> I changed that
<LaserJock> grrr
<luisbg> hey he is LaserJock again
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea but i like to be able to talk to sponsors in realtime, helps fix issues faster if there are any
<Kmos> should be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide :)
<DktrKranz> mh... is a mass-rebuild for packages which do FTBFS scheduled in the future?
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: not sure, geser just asked pitti that
<geser> DktrKranz: I asked pitti about it and no such massive give-back is planned
<geser> DktrKranz: [20:03:43]        pitti | geser: no, it's not planned, I don't know how to do that wholesale
<LaserJock> !packagingguide
<ubotu> packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<LaserJock> oh stink
<DktrKranz> So, manual give-backs are required?
<LaserJock> packageguide vs packagingguide
<hyper___ch> imbrandon: the one I would like to have included is already requested ;)
<DktrKranz> boring :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: its an alias
<imbrandon> !packageguide is <alias> packagingguide
<ubotu> But packageguide already means something else!
<imbrandon> !no packageguide is <alias> packagingguide
<ubotu> You are editing an alias. Please repeat the edit command within the next 10 seconds to confirm
<imbrandon> !no packageguide is <alias> packagingguide
<ubotu> I'll remember that imbrandon
<imbrandon> LaserJock: fixed :)
<nxvl_work> i'm supposed to go to the university but i don't want :(
<LaserJock> imbrandon: geeze, no need to spam ;-)
<imbrandon> oh wow, i give up :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: PONIES! :)
<LaserJock> I'm trying fix this factoid mess
<Kmos> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles
<Kmos> at the end
<Kmos> ".desktop file fails validation"
<Kmos> the command doesn't work
<Kmos> only show the available desktop files, but not run desktop-file-validate against it
<LaserJock> !package
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about package - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<LaserJock> !packaging
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<LaserJock> ah hah
<tritium> LaserJock: do you have a minute?
<LaserJock> tritium: sure
<tritium> LaserJock: thanks.  I'll /query.
<LaserJock> !packaging
<ubotu> packaging is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<Mez> how do I create Linda Overrides?
<superm1> warp10, sure if you want to, have at it
<superm1> if not, laga was going to get at it in the future
<warp10> superm1: ok, thanks :)
<superm1> oh and looking through bug mail you've got debdiff's on the bug now
<superm1> i'll take a look and upload them as long as they're good
<norsetto> superm1: are you looking at bug 164738 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164738 in xmltv "Please upload merge xmltv 0.5.50.1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164738
<superm1> norsetto, yes
<superm1> i'm doing a test build right now
<norsetto> superm1: ok, I just set it in progress and assign to you if you don't mind?
<superm1> sure no biggie
<superm1> warp10, okay looks good i'm gonna upload this.  thanks :)
<warp10> superm1: great! thank you! :)
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<geser> Hi TheMuso
<norsetto> hi TheMuso
<joejaxx> anyone have a plan about the lp downtime? :) ( it is 8 horus :(  )
<TheMuso> joejaxx: I think we just have to wear it.
<joejaxx> TheMuso: yeah, unfortunately :\
<joejaxx> better pull everything locally then
 * geser will be sleeping the most time LP is down
<TheMuso> Oh well, I have other stuff I can do while I wait. :p
<imbrandon> its not for another 24+ hours correct ?
<geser> Nov 25th 3:00 UTC - 11:00 UTC
<TheMuso> Its the morning of the 24th here.
<imbrandon> yea it seems it will be Saturday, November 24, 2007 at 9:00:00 PM here
<imbrandon> seems for that long of a downtime they could put up a static copy of the db or soemthing
<RainCT> can somebody please check if pbuilder-dist from hardy works correctly?
<RainCT> I get a strange error when I use it on gutsy with the backported pbuilder, but I'm not sure if that's just me or there's really something wrong
<RainCT> oh, today it seems to work fine :S
<LordKow> hm my xchat icon decided to pick its own size for the tray icon. kind of dominates the rest of 'em
<LordKow> thats better
<LordKow> bug 139518
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139518 in deluge-torrent "Please sync deluge-torrent 0.5.6.2-1 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139518
<LordKow> should i make a new bug report or use that one? it needs to be a merge
<TheMuso> Yay! Seems the buildds are uber clogged atm.
<LordKow> TheMuso, which means... we are working faster than the build machines can build the packages? i like that
<TheMuso> LordKow: More due to the fact that a lot of stuff was brought in from Debian
<LordKow> ah k
<LordKow> with regards to the deluge-torrent bug, would it be too invasive to change the bug title and status when it was not me who filed it?
<LordKow> its an invalid report with regards to a sync.
<jsomers> dumb question: when using debuild -S I get the error that my secret key is not available. When using gpg --list-secret-keys I do see my name and the email address that I configured in my bashrc file
<jsomers> any pointers on why this may still be happening?
<LordKow> debuild -S -rfakeroot -k<your_gpg_key_id>
<LordKow> i think that will work
<LordKow> i always use dpkg-buildpackage
<LordKow> and i have the GPGKEY env var set to i always use -k$GPGKEY
<LordKow> s/to/so
<jsomers> allright, that worked
<jsomers> thank you very much
<nxvl> last week of classes sux
<nxvl> is so boring come to do nothing
<nxvl> :S
<SWAT> what's the best way to package a svn-revision from scratch? (I usually use pbuilder + dh_make)
<nxvl> u can also use CDBS
<nxvl> it's easier
<warp10> hi zul. May I take care of the merge of nginx, whose you are the last uploader?
 * RainCT asks if the unknown author of 404main is around as he is working on improving and cleaning it up but there's a chunk he doesn't understand :P
<TheMuso> RainCT: No, he's not.
<RainCT> TheMuso: do you know who he is? :P
<geser> RainCT: which part you don't understand?
 * geser notes it's *not* his script, but /me is learning python
<RainCT> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45631/plain/
<RainCT> this one
<RainCT> I understand the code but I don't know what it's for
<RainCT> (deps is a list of build dependencies)
<RainCT> s/build//
<RainCT> ah ok
 * RainCT understands it now.. should look right next time :P
<RainCT> geser: thanks anyways :)
<geser> RainCT: I didn't do anything, but I'm glad I could help you :)
<LordKow> RAOF, why can deluge-torrent be synced? what about the last ubuntu package which removes the update entries from the preferences dialog, and also what about disabling auto-checking for updates? debian's version does this and we do not want it to
<LordKow> does this, as in they DO check for auto-updates.
<LaserJock> dang it, I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the back of this laptop off
<LordKow> the screen?
<LaserJock> no, the bottom
<LordKow> ah
<LaserJock> I took out all the screws
<LaserJock> but it seems to be still hanging on towards the back
<LordKow> did you take off the keyboard and the panel that goes over the power buttons, etc?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I'm going in from the bottow
<LaserJock> *bottom
<LordKow> well, some laptop manufactures will screw it down (towards the bottom of the laptop) with a couple of screw
<LordKow> *s
<LaserJock> I don't see any visable screws
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-24
<RainCT> good night
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zul> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey zul!
<zul> no one here but us goats
 * Hobbsee is no goat
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: can you prove that? :-)
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: yeah - people hav eseen me
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: Everyone knows she's a green alien. Duh.
 * Hobbsee says "nyah.  try harder" at the cars outside.
<Nafallo> :-P
 * Nafallo ponders if "people" are trustworthy enough though ;-)
<Hobbsee> well, they upload software that you're currently using, so...
<zul> Fujitsu: i though we established the fact that Hobbsee is a zombie
<Fujitsu> zul: Oops, so we did.
<imbrandon> a zombie alien ?
<imbrandon> btw hiya *
<Hobbsee> heya!
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: a *green* zombie alien!
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> hi
<Fujitsu> It's an ajmitch! Run!
 * ajmitch runs
<Hobbsee> oh noes!
<ajmitch> :(
 * Hobbsee attacks ajmitch with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! â¢
 * Hobbsee coattacks Burgundavia with it, too.
 * ajmitch scurries off back into his corner
<imbrandon> i love packages that seem intresting but have no help or man or documentation whatsoever, even on the project website
<zul> i think there is a manpage for ls
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> mach is what i was speaking of
<imbrandon> its supose to create rpm chroots, like debootstrap, replaces rpmstrap
 * Fujitsu is glad that its secrets shall remain locked away forever.
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: apparently women hate me today. My gf was beating me up as well ;(
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: awww
 * Hobbsee hugs Burgundavia
 * slangasek beats up Burgundavia too, so he doesn't feel cheered that it's not a gender thing
<StevenK> Hah
<slangasek> hmm, s/doesn't/can/
<Burgundavia> I hate you all
<Burgundavia> I am going to run Gentoo now
<ajmitch> excellent
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> our work here is done then
<StevenK> Well, our job is done.
 * StevenK grins, and high fives ajmitch 
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder why you need to agree to the Debian Machine Usage Policies to be a Debian Maintainer
 * Hobbsee attacks slangasek and bddebian with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! â¢ to make it appear random
<LaserJock> is that just because of the buildds?
<slangasek> Hobbsee: it may appear random to some, but the pattern is perfectly clear to me!
<Hobbsee> slangasek: oh yes?
<bddebian> hrmph
<slangasek> absolutely
 * Hobbsee wonders if you're better at patterns than those she was playing with mao are
<Hobbsee> s/with mao/mao with/
<slangasek> you're clearly poking people who IRC!
<LaserJock> man, I suck at mao
<LaserJock> although I played it at like 2 or 3am in a foreign country
<LaserJock> and I was sick
<LaserJock> so we'll blame it on that
<LaserJock> soren can attest to how bad it was
<slangasek> LaserJock: I think those are considered standard operating conditions for Mao, sorry :)
<LaserJock> heh
<Hobbsee> hehe
 * Fujitsu wonders what this Mao thing is.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: come to a UDS and find out
<Fujitsu> Hah, like that's going to happen.
<StevenK> Then come to Sydney and find out
<Fujitsu> Maybe one day if I can convince my parents. Which isn't likely.
<slangasek> ... maybe one day you'll be allowed to travel without parental approval?
<slangasek> aside from the green alien zombies among us, people are known to age
<Fujitsu> slangasek: That's a while off yet.
<bddebian> Some of us faster than others :-(
<slangasek> I did say age, not grow up
<TheMuso> Well. I've just satisified my government election duties...
<TheMuso> satisfied
<StevenK> TheMuso: Did you have to?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Of course.
<StevenK> Voting just encourages them
<StevenK> TheMuso: Was the form in Brallie?
<Fujitsu> With any luck our beloved Mr. Howard will be gone soon...
<TheMuso> StevenK: I think not.
<bddebian> slangasek: Aye, and I'm already old.  I'll never grow up :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: I would use electronic voting, but I heard that it wasn't open source, so wasn't interested.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: It's just a question if he gets replaced by Peter Costello or Kevin Rudd?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: That's true.
 * bddebian liked Howard
 * StevenK prefers the latter, Peter Costello seeming like a jerk
 * slangasek draws a correlation between bddebian's last two statements
<PriceChild> !packaging | LaserJock
<ubotu> LaserJock: packaging is  The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Haha.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I don't particularly like either, but would prefer the latter. But I don't have to vote until next time.
<PriceChild> LaserJock, did you mean to remove the / before NewPackages on that second link?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Do you mind if I take care of openmovieeditor?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Not overly
<bddebian> slangasek: Right, I'm old and experienced enough to know that I don't want the government running my life..
 * bddebian hides
<frenchy> Did you see the "Kirribilli house for sale" joke? Rudd did say that he was going to come and live with me, in Canberra.
<slangasek> you mean that you don't want the /Australian/ government running your life, right, you'd rather have the American government running your life?
<frenchy> Well he'll be in The Lodge and I'll still be slumming it.
<frenchy> Maybe I'll catch him at the local pub, or strip joint ... *** frenchy laughs at his own joke.
<bddebian> slangasek: I am an American.  And I don't want to live in a nanny state, no. :-)
<slangasek> oh, so you like Howard because he's Somebody Else's Problem
<StevenK> slangasek: Would you mind checking why my gutenprint upload got rejected?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you forgot to sacrifice a goat to soyuz.
<TheMuso> lol
<slangasek> oh, is that why Hobbsee's insistent that she isn't a goat
<StevenK> Hah
<Hobbsee> haha
 * Fujitsu normally uses goats for SCSI, but they might be useful for Soyuz too.
<slangasek> StevenK: do I have a clue where to look for rejects?
<StevenK> slangasek: There's a log on drescher
<slangasek> called?
<StevenK> That I have no clue about
<Fujitsu> The directories with the upload bits should be in /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-queue/rejected, I think. Rejections should be logged to the lp_archive mailbox.
<Hobbsee> slangasek: er, is there a new kernel upload planned before the alpha?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: And how do you know that? :-)
<persia> lamont: Sent.  Thanks
<slangasek> Hobbsee: I haven't heard.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I don't quite recall.
<persia> Hobbsee: It's still important to have a Rationale for syncs after DIF to explain why we're importing after the freeze (Freeze Exception Process)
<slangasek> hmm, the lp_archive mailbox is rather Large
<persia> Anyone using `debuild -k`: please only do this if you are a sponsor: it's far better to get your changelog identity entity to match your GPG keyring identity.
<Fujitsu> slangasek: I'm not surprised. How many gigabytes?
<slangasek> StevenK: wrong .orig.tar.gz referenced
<slangasek> Fujitsu: 1.9 \o/
<StevenK> There was no .orig.tar.gz in the .changes file
<slangasek> StevenK: no, but there would have to be one in the .dsc
<slangasek> and the checksum doesn't match the existing one
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Nice.
<StevenK> Ah, duh.
<StevenK> I forgot about that
<StevenK> slangasek: Danke, I'll sort that out soonish
<TheMuso> StevenK: Did you not get an upload rejection email?
<slangasek> that's just what I was going to ask, the mail I was peeking at is rather uploader-oriented
<slangasek> actually, it looks pretty much identical to a dak reject :)
<StevenK> I did, I just couldn't make sense of why it was talking about things in the archive.
<StevenK> Oh wel
<StevenK> well, even
<GoldenPony> LaserJock!
<TheMuso> Is it just me, or is requestsync getting the version number incorrect in the email subjects it produces, yet it gets the correct changelog?
<persia> TheMuso: I don't think it's just you: I've seen a bunch of things in the sponsors queue with that issue.
<TheMuso> persia: Ok, thats good to know.
<LaserJock> !packaging
<ubotu> packaging is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<LaserJock> hmm, looks like he fixed it
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: ponies!
<LaserJock> trying to find a screw I lost in my grandfather's laptop
<imbrandon> LaserJock: get it all sorted i see
<LaserJock> goodness sakes
<LaserJock> I was gonna say something and my laptop just turned off
<LaserJock> apparently somebody unplugged me
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> on reboot I had a ton of fsck problems
<imbrandon> nice
<LaserJock> had run fsck manually and there was a lot of stuff
<LaserJock> hopefully I didn't lose too much data
<imbrandon> probably only what you had open
<LaserJock> well, that's fine then
<imbrandon> wow someone actualy sugested use qemubuilder to build a i386 package on a x86_64 instead of a i386 chroot/pbuilder
<slangasek> yes, let us bow our heads in shame
<imbrandon> heh
<TheMuso> c
<Hobbsee> d
<TheMuso> ugh wront tab
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: c is right in any tab?
 * persia suspects /c is useful to avoid gibber
<DoYouKnow> hi
<DoYouKnow> I am new
<persia> DoYouKnow: Hi.
<somerville32> Now that I've started doing packaging on my server (dunno why I didn't do this earlier), I can get a lot more done quicker
<somerville32> AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+ VS. Pentium II (Deschutes)
<pwnguin> i should set up ccache and maybe distcc
<pwnguin> is distcc the only way to get pbuilder to hit multicores?
<persia> pwnguin: You don't want to do that: it means that your build won't match the buildd build, and may not work.
<pwnguin> is there a problem with not matching the buildd build?
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: yes.
<pwnguin> I'm thinking that question deserves a two part answer
<persia> pwnguin: Essentially, the main reason we bother to build things locally is to make sure that they will build on the buildds when they get uploaded.
<persia> If you are just playing for private use, you'd do better to do a local build with `debuild`.
<persia> If you want to build something as a candidate for the repositories, you'd do best to run a full Soyuz implementation, but that's annoying, and pbuilder does most of it.
<pwnguin> wait
<somerville32> Hmm
<pwnguin> are there cases where things would build in parallel but not in pbuilder?
<persia> The reason debuild is better for local use is that it takes advantage of the installed system, and so ./configure will often pull in libraries that may normally be excluded (depending on the build system).
<somerville32> interdiff doesn't work that great
<persia> pwnguin: Yes.  If there is accidental timestamp skew, make -j can become very confused.
<persia> somerville32: How doesn't it work?
<pwnguin> persia: then it would fail in parallel
<somerville32> persia, I get hunking errors all the time
<persia> pwnguin: Not necessarily: maybe it works in parallel because it can catch up, but breaks in serial due to the skew.
<persia> somerville32: What's your command line?
<somerville32> interdiff -z -p1 diff1 diff2
<persia> somerville32: You get "hunking errors" from running interdiff, or trying to use that interdiff?
<somerville32> I get hunking errors while running it
<somerville32> Sometimes, I can't get any meaningful ouput at all
<persia> somerville32: Could you put your diffs somewhere?  I've never seen that.
<somerville32> I have two examples that I'll post in a second
<imbrandon> pwnguin: distcc isnt very nice with pbuilder as it needs source/package changes ( -j X ) but ccache works well if setup right
<imbrandon> with pbuilder
<pwnguin> ah
<pwnguin> i thought maybe pbuilder was smart about that stuff
<imbrandon> heh no
<pwnguin> but still, im thinking if it works in parallel
<pwnguin> it works in series
<imbrandon> plus there are programs that just fail peroid with distcc
<imbrandon> pbuilder or not
<pwnguin> right
<pwnguin> i know distcc has limitations
<imbrandon> AND icecream is better imho :)
<pwnguin> well, i did ask if distcc was the only way
<imbrandon> kde* is notorious for useing icecream vs distcc, never heard of it being used with pbuilder though
<Hobbsee> [15:09] <pwnguin> I'm thinking that question deserves a two part answer <-- persia already answered the latter half.
 * persia wonders if somerville32 encountered a grue
<Hobbsee> he encounted a GoldenPony, i expect
<persia> Don't GoldenPonies shiine in the dark, lighting the way to a happier place?
 * somerville32 coughs something about Debian.
<imbrandon> bah nuff $work for one night
<imbrandon> time for a new theme
<somerville32> What is this a sign of?
<somerville32> Installing: /usr/share/locale/ar/LC_MESSAGES/notecase.mo
<somerville32> /bin/sh: /tmp/buildd/notecase-1.6.9/debian/notecase: Permission denied
<somerville32> I'm using CDBS
<somerville32> (It says that for everything it tries to install)
<imbrandon> that, cdbs = magic ?
<persia> Not using fakeroot?
<persia> filesystem full?
<somerville32> I'm using pbuilder
 * persia suspects /tmp is tmpfs and only 1/2 RAM, and can't build big things
 * Hobbsee wonders if it's somethinga bout executability
<Hobbsee> like, debian/rules not being executable
<somerville32> debian/rules is executed
<somerville32> I do see this: DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET unset, not running checks
<persia> Hobbsee: That's cause an error much earlier in the process.
<Hobbsee> persia: ahhh
<Hobbsee> persia: it's been so long since i've done it :)
<persia> somerville32: the lack of running make check isn't a real error
<persia> Err.  by "isn't a real error", I mean "is safe to ignore"
<somerville32> It built on my other computer IIRC
<persia> Does your other computer have more RAM?
<somerville32> I don't see dh_checkperms or w/e it is called being run. Is there a CDBS setting for that?
<persia> somerville32: Likely: there's a CDBS setting for everything.  On the other hand, your problem is not dh_fixperms: you're either running out of space or trying to write to a directory that doesn't exist (maybe you need a notecase.dirs file?)
<somerville32> Most likely
<somerville32> Well, I gotta jet. bbl
<persia> somerville32: Please post your interdiff example when you can: that really sounds like a combinediff error, and I'd like to make sure it doesn't happen often.
<somerville32> Sure thing
<warp10> Hi all!
<imbrandon> LaserRock!
<imbrandon> pwnguin: btw if you havent seen it here is the info on http://en.opensuse.org/Icecream , its pretty KDE centric, but iirc it can be used for anything , its kinda a distcc-ng by suse
<nixternal> it can be used by whatever you want, the only thing kde centric with I think is the client status window
<pwnguin> well, distcc will probably be enough
<pwnguin> i guess you can't really hack in parallel builds to a package after the fact though
<pwnguin> err
<pwnguin> not distcc,
<pwnguin> ccache
<pwnguin> from a time standpoint, perhaps i should just figure out debuild
<imbrandon> debuild is essentialy the same as pbuilder only not preformed in a chroot, i.e. apt-get build-dep <package>; debuild <options>; ( from the main package directory )
<persia> Er. No.  debuild doesn't pull build-deps.
<imbrandon> common options are -S -sa for a source only ( REVU ) upload , just plain debuild if you were the last to make a change and -us -uc if you were not
<imbrandon> persia: yea i added the apt-get build-dep bit :)
<persia> imbrandon: to debuild?  Why?
<imbrandon> debuild is essentialy the same as pbuilder only not preformed in a chroot, i.e. apt-get build-dep <package>; debuild <options>; ( from the main package directory )
<imbrandon> 00:58 < pwnguin> from a time standpoint, perhaps i should just figure out debuild
<persia> imbrandon: Further how are you parsing the build-deps?  Will it pull the build-deps from the apt-cache or from debian/control?
 * persia attempts to calculate timezones and reviews backscroll
<imbrandon> they way i did it it will get them from the debian/control of the last one in the archive :)
<persia> imbrandon: Please don't do that: that completely breaks NBS processing.
<imbrandon> persia: we're not talking about for something to be uplaoded
<imbrandon> he is talking about using it for a personal build
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  OK.  No worries then :)
 * persia still likes dpkg-checkbuilddep
<persia> s
<pwnguin> i do a lot of writing of new patches
<pwnguin> pbuilder / debuild are helpful in that they already know the build process
<imbrandon> oh wow , spam is getting worse, not just web 2.0 but "gibLink is a web 2.5 ..."
 * imbrandon rolls eys
<imbrandon> eyes even
<pwnguin> gmail let through a spam that claimed to be from myself
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i complain about spam but gmail catches 90% of it
<imbrandon> still a ton though
<imbrandon> that makes it to my inbox
<pwnguin> gmail's gotten better about catching russian spam
<pwnguin> it used to not flag russian and japanese spam
<pwnguin> i get maybe one a week
<imbrandon> i just hate when you get 100000 returned emails for your domain becouse someone forged spam from your domain
<pwnguin> but then i dont host a domain or place my email on my website
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> gmail still handles my domain email but still
<pwnguin> there's a backport of compiz?
<imbrandon> yea, few days ago
<pwnguin> oh, screensaver security type patches in it
<warp10> Hi lionel. You are the last uploader for sword. May I request the sync for it?
<Hobbsee> warp10: which version is currently in ubuntu, and which version is in debian?
<warp10> Hobbsee: 1.5.9-6ubuntu1 and 1.5.9-7
<Hobbsee> warp10: have you seen the changelog entry for the ubuntu version?
<warp10> Hobbsee: yep!
<Hobbsee> what does it say?
<warp10> Hobbsee: just the sync request and Maintainer: change
<imbrandon> the changelog has a sync request? was it a fakesync ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, it's a fakesync.
<warp10> imbrandon: fakesync indeed.
 * Hobbsee remembers it
<Hobbsee> warp10: that means that you cant sync it, as the debian and ubuntu tarballs are different.
<Fujitsu> Why was it fakesynced?
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<warp10> Hobbsee: mmm... but shouldn't it be anyway synced after a version change?
<Hobbsee> warp10: the tarballs don't get synced across, if the tarball name is the same.
<Hobbsee> you have to apply the debian changes to the ubuntu package
<warp10> Hobbsee: well, ok. I never met a fakesync before. Thanks for your hints!
<Hobbsee> no problem
<imbrandon> hte next sync can happen at 1.5.10/1.6 ( when a new tarbal is released upstream )
<imbrandon> assuming there are still no ubuntu specific changes
<imbrandon> that cant be dropped
<geser> StevenK: can I ask you about your changes to pdftk? I was looking at it and my changes are included in the Debian changes but I'm not sure if some of your changes are still needed.
<StevenK> Hum, wha? I made changes to pdftk? :-P
<StevenK> geser: Do you mind waiting until I sort out abiword?
<geser> sure
<StevenK> geser: Okay, let me have a look while it builds.
<geser> Debian builds now also with gcj-4.2 and g++-4.2 and it builds in a hardy pbuilder. So I don't know if those changes to the Makefile are still needed.
<geser> Otherwise the package can be synced.
<StevenK> geser: My only change for pdftk was a rebuild
<StevenK> I only added a changelog entry
<geser> StevenK: http://patches.ubuntu.com/p/pdftk/pdftk_1.40-2ubuntu3.patch lists you also for -2ubuntu1
<geser> and the second patch has also ## general-fixes.dpatch by Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>
<StevenK> Oh, ubuntu3
<StevenK> Hrm. If I recall this a was a hard fix
<StevenK> geser: Right, I'm not certain that the Makefile patches are required anymore - if the compiler can find the paths itself, then drop it
<StevenK> geser: If I recall, doko asked it was built against 4.2
<geser> ok, thanks. I'll request a sync then.
<StevenK> geser: Basically, the patch was to fix a build failure since it wasn't finding other class files referenced
<geser> Debian changes in their build-gcc-4.2 patch the classpath for the GCJH calls. I guess for the same purpose
<StevenK> Fair enough, sync it
<imbrandon> RAOF: ping
<imbrandon> welp i'm gonna call it an early night and see if i can get some sleep
<imbrandon> gnight all
<imbrandon> thanks slangasek
<RAOF> imbrandon: pong!~
 * persia encourages the use of Post-Itâ¢ notes when playing simulated table tennis
<RAOF> Gah, missed lordkow.
<persia> jpatrick: About styleclock: I was just adding a watch file, and noticed the rpath and shlibs issues.  Do you remember why this package sets a private library?
<jpatrick> persia: nop
<jpatrick> I think upstream's dead anyway
<persia> jpatrick: Should we drop the package?  I'm just trying to clean up missing watch files for Ubuntu-only packages.
<jpatrick> with KDE4 it should be ok to drop
<persia> jpatrick: OK.  I'll file a removal request.  Thanks.
<jpatrick> it this not a valid .install file: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45682/ ?
<persia> jpatrick: Below ----- only?
<jpatrick> yep
<jpatrick> above is the error I keep getting
<persia> OK.  Is there a $(CURDIR)/usr/ ?
<jpatrick> usr/ should be debian/tmp/usr
<jpatrick> hmm, I could leave out the usr/ since there is no other package made
<persia> jpatrick: Should be, but I'm not sure you can mix the "move bits from debian/tmp into subpackages" with raw installs (then again, I could be wrong).
<persia> Ah, if you've only one package, then dh_install isn't in multipackage mode, and that won't work at all.  That's it.
<persia> next, is there really a $(CURDIR)/tmp/buildd/tork-023... ?
<persia> That just looks wrong to me.
<jpatrick> lintian reports file-in-unusual-dir and dir-or-file-in-tmp for those files
<jpatrick> I'm getting to get them into the right place
<persia> I suspect there's something funny with your build system.  That's just not a good rule, as it will break for local builds, and will break for a version upgrade.
<jpatrick> I have mailed upstream about it and he's very confused about what's happening
<DaveMorris> can someone review my package please. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial
<persia> jpatrick: The part that confuses me is why debian/tork/usr/share/man/man1/... is the wrong place.
<jpatrick> persia: that's the thing :>
<persia> jpatrick: Could you pastebin `dpkg --contents` for the binary if you don't have those funny lines (and get the lintian error)?
<jpatrick> persia: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45683/
<persia> jpatrick: Thanks.  That's clearly wrong :)  How about a buildlog?
<jpatrick> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45685/
<persia> Also, this should really be three packages: tork-tsocks, libtorksocks1, and libtorksocks-dev
<persia> Hrm.  With this many icons, I'd check the size: it might even deserve a tork-common as well...
<persia> jpatrick: OK.  I think I have it.  Could you paste upstream Makefile (after patching)?
<jpatrick> persia: upstream will be estatic if you do :) being trying to get this to package for two months now: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45686/
<persia> jpatrick: That looks like Makefile.in : is that really the Makefile?
<jpatrick> it's a Makefile.am
<persia> Ah.  Could you run a build that doesn't delete afterwards, and also paste Makefile.in and Makefile?
<jpatrick> how do you pbuild so it doesn't delete?
 * persia doesn't use pbuilder and seeks support from others
<pochu> you can login into pbuilder and then build it, but you will have to manually copy the files into /var/cache/pbuilder/buildd.../home/
<persia> pochu: Thanks
<jpatrick> I copied the src somewhere else ran "debian/rules build" from there
<persia> jpatrick: Is this CDBS, or hand-built rules?
<persia> nevermind.  I just checked the build-deps (headsmack)
<james_w> Should merging of packages in main be left to -core-dev?
<persia> slangasek: Regarding Alpha 1: how does that affect universe?  Should we be targeting wiping the NBS list, or is it not as critical?  As universe doesn't really affect the CD, would you prefer a universe freeze, or is it not essential?
<Hobbsee> persia: soyuz will force it all to freeze, if it's like usual, universe gets a manual shove
<persia> james_w: It depends.  If you know the package well, and have worked with it before, you can go ahead.
<Hobbsee> erm.  which i still can't do.  bugger.
<persia> Hobbsee: Not based on the recent mail to u-d@
<james_w> persia: no I don't/haven't.
<persia> james_w: If you're not a previous contributor to the package, it's best to leave the merge, unless you're working with a previous contributor.
<james_w> persia: that makes sense. However I didn't notice until I'd actually done the work.
<persia> james_w: In that case, best to leave it.  Sponsoring into main can take a while, and the packages are all assigned to specific developers.
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, ignore me.  i havent actually read teh mail yet.
<persia> Hobbsee: I try, but somehow I find it difficult :)
<RainCT> hi
<persia> hey RainCT
<pochu> james_w: or ask the last uploader to review it if he can
<Hobbsee> persia: :P
<persia> Hmm.  I have a main merge.  Oops!
<RainCT> I'm merging classpath and it has the following Ubuntu specific changes: * Add /usr/include/xulrunner to CLASSPATH_INCLUDES in configure  * And MOZILLA_CFLAGS       are those required for something or might just be needed for it to build?
<persia> RainCT: Those are required to get the mozilla classes in the classpath.  I'd check in #ubuntu-mozillateam to get a better understanding about them
<james_w> thanks persia
<Hobbsee> slangasek: where can i find the information on what was discussed w.r.t the release team, at UDS?
<persia> james_w: No problem.  Thanks for asking.
<persia> Is KDE4 targeted for hardy, or will it still be KDE3.x?
<RainCT> persia: ok, thx
<Hobbsee> persia: it'll be there, but not by deafult
<persia> Right then.  I shan't remove styleclock, just fix it.
<jpatrick> persia: aha, I got the Makefile http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45690/
<jpatrick> even tho it says Makefile.in...
<persia> jpatrick: Makefile.in isn't Makefile, but it's closer :)
<jpatrick> that was the Makefile in /tmp/build/obj-linux-thingy/src/tsocks
<persia> jpatrick: Now I'm confused.  This is Makefile or Makefile.in?
<jpatrick> Makefil
<jpatrick> -e*
 * persia hopes '*' doesn't indicate shell expansion :)
<jpatrick> nop, correction :)
<persia> jpatrick: Found it: line 66 sets the install directory to $(DESTDIR)$(torksocksmanpagedir), and line 412 sets torksocksmanpagedir to $(DESTDIR/$(mandir)/man1, which is a clear duplicate.
<persia> The next step is to look at Makefile.in, to try to figure out why that happens, and the final step is to adjust Makefile.am to make it not happen.
<jpatrick> persia: ok, will do
<persia> jpatrick: Good luck, and thanks for tracking this down rather than trying to work around it with dh_install.
<persia> DaveMorris: still about?
<LucidFox> Hobbsee> Out of curiosity, will KDE4 be in universe or main?
<DaveMorris> persia: for around 10 mins
<persia> DaveMorris: You win then :)  Looking at libserial now...
<persia> (and it will likely take longer than 10 minutes: no need to wait)
<Hobbsee> LucidFox: universe, probably
<Hobbsee> it's unsupported
<LucidFox> ah
<DaveMorris> well I'll bee back in around 10 then
<persia> DaveMorris: Commented
<DaveMorris> persia: any manuals I can read regarding the manpage problems?
<persia> DaveMorris: I can't find one offhand.  Please let me know if you encounter one: it would be a valuable addition to the packaging guide.
<DaveMorris> yeah, since I know nothing about manpages (except how to use them)
<persia> DaveMorris: That's about where I stand :)  There might be something useful in /usr/share/doc/man-db/man-db-manual*, but I've not read it.
<DaveMorris> After working on these packages I know why so many ppl just have packages on there site rather than putting them into the distros.  Because going from a package which can be installed and works to getting past revu is actually quite a big jump
<persia> DaveMorris: It depends on how one defines "works", but I'd agree that the policy hurdles are often more difficult than just wrapping the package.  Thanks for trying: I think it's better for everyone when the package are in the distributions.
<LucidFox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libhiglayout-java <-- please nuke/archive, I've filed a sync request from Debian instead
<persia> LucidFox: Archving.  Thanks.
<LucidFox> I've uploaded an updated package for review: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=qdvdauthor , and would also appreciate a review of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux
<persia> LucidFox: avidemux and qdvdauthor generate lintian output from the source: please adjust, check the binaries, and reupload.
<LucidFox> how do I check lintian output from the source?
<persia> LucidFox: lintian -iIv on the .dsc.  Alternately, look at the lintian link on the URLs you provided when requesting review.
<\sh> moins
<james_w> hi \sh.
<james_w> could you give me some information on why http://patches.ubuntu.com/a/asc/asc_1.16.3.0-3ubuntu1.patch was necessary please?
<\sh> phew..starting engines for the day just now :)
<\sh> james_w, without it, it was FTBFSing in gutsy these days..
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, how can I add translations to : https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt
<james_w> \sh: so you don't know what dependencies changed to make that necessary?
<\sh> james_w, feisty..sry
<\sh> james_w, nope..I'm just checking what the source is telling me, what it needs, and it gets it
<persia> StevenHarperUK: How do you mean?  Do you want to add more .po files?
<\sh> james_w, most likely a diff in libsdl1.2* deps...between debian and ubuntu these days...
<StevenHarperUK> I have a PO file I want to use the launchpad feature to get more translations
<james_w> \sh: thanks. I was talking to the games team about applying it themselves, and they wanted to understand why it was different.
<\sh> james_w, if debians version works now, sync it
<james_w> \sh: yeah, I'll try a test build of current sid in hardy.
<persia> james_w: The reason was that there was massive library skew for feisty.  It's all sorted now.
<\sh> james_w, bah...all build-dep changes are coming mostly from changed deps in build-deps of ubuntu...those changes are mostly shortliving changes
<james_w> persia: so we should be able to drop the Ubuntu changes now?
<persia> james_w: Always test build to check for sure, but usually that type of change isn't worth preserving (unless the changelog says something like "add aalib-dev to build-depends to support ASCII output).
<\sh> james_w, try the debian version ... build it, if it's building without FTBFS it's ok to sync..if not, stay with it
<persia> james_w: Also, if Ubuntu depends on a newer version of something, always preserve that, as it is usually related to some transition that has to be handled differently due to Ubuntu's frequent release cycle: many things get finished and dropped in Debian that need to be supported in Ubuntu due to massive user distribution.
<james_w> yeah, of course I'll check, I was thinking more about pushing upstream.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: what I want is to use launchpad to get translators to add new translations, the tab is greyed, how do I change that
<james_w> StevenHarperUK: I think you might have to set it up for a project, rather than a source package. I'm just speculating though.
<james_w> StevenHarperUK: also #launchpad is probably a more appropriate location for this question.
<StevenHarperUK> I have uploaded a PO in the project, but its been sat in the Queue for ages (over a month)
<persia> StevenHarperUK: I'm not sure about that.  I think only Ubuntu main is translated automatically, and for the rest you'd need to register a project in Launchpad, and enable Rosetta.  I may be wrong: it's worth looking at the Translations pages in Launchpad directly (I didn't find anything from a quick search).
<StevenHarperUK> OK thanks
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I have another Question - now that easycrypt is past the NEW queue : do I use REVU as the upload location for new VERSIONS : and just do the Bug raising as specified in the contributing pages?
<persia> StevenHarperUK: You want to open a bug, and subscribe the sponsors.  For new upstreams, use an interdiff please, as debdiff is confusing.  Be sure your watch file works (or your get-orig-source).
<persia> \sh: Is that a scripted away change?
<StevenHarperUK> persia: do I just submit the new version -as I am upstream or do I have to make the diffs?
<\sh> persia, I think it's new ati binary only aixgl support drivers fcking with my computer somehow
<persia> \sh: Ah.  Sorry to hear that :(
<persia> StevenHarperUK: The interdiff of the diff.gz files is useful, as it represents the new candidate revision for upload to the repository.  I'd expect you'll be making most changes upstream, so likely only debian/changelog would differ (making a small diff).  The sponsors will use the watch file to download your new upstream tarball.
<LucidFox> I reuploaded qdvdauthor
<\sh> Fujitsu, why did you set the status to invalid for bug #162385 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 162385 in drupal "[Security] Several Security Issues for drupal 5.x before 5.3" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162385
<persia> \sh: It's really late there: you may wait ~8 hours for a response (although I may be mistaken)
<Fujitsu> \sh: Note the extra task, to properly represent status.
 * persia is mistaken
<\sh> Fujitsu, ah ok...
<Fujitsu> persia: That you are. I'm about to go to bed, though.
<\sh> Fujitsu, sleep well :)
<StevenHarperUK> persia: so to conclude, I make sure my watch file is correct (which it is), upload to REVU , and follow the bug raising guide and subscribing.
<\sh> well, working on a python bug
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Skip the REVU step: no need.  Just make sure your watch file is correct: make sure you have updated packaging (new .dsc, new .diff.gz), and attach the interdiff to the bug.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for instructions.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: ta
<geser> Hobbsee: Hi, are you doing give-backs?
<Hobbsee> geser: bribes accepted.
<geser> hmm
 * Hobbsee can do givebacks, yes.
<Hobbsee> whether i'm going to at this time of night is an interesting question :P
<geser> Hobbsee: can you give-back advi on all arches for nxvl?
<Hobbsee> geser: where?
<Hobbsee> (gutsy, hardy)?
<geser> hardy
<Hobbsee> k
<geser> thanks
<\sh> oh wow...how do someone create a patch for python without knowing with patch is applying first?
<Hobbsee> geser: all given back
<norsetto> hello folks
<persia> good evening norsetto
<norsetto> hiya persia
<persia> I hope I was stepping on your toes in my response: I think yours was much more concise.
<geser> Hi norsetto
<norsetto> hey geser
<persia> Err..  s/was/wasn't/
<norsetto> persia: lol
<\sh> doko_, can you explain your patch system in python2.5? how are the patches applied, reading in which logical order ?
<LucidFox> What's the difference between ${source:Version} and  ${binary:Version}?
<james_w> LucidFox: they can differ in a binNMU.
<james_w> i.e. it's possible to build new binaries with an increased version number without making a new source upload and building arch: all packages.
<persia> james_w: Actually, we don't have binNMU in Ubuntu (but, yes).
<james_w> http://wiki.debian.org/binNMU
<persia> LucidFox: use (= ${binary:Version}) for arch:any depending on arch:any,  (= ${source:Version}) for arch:any depending on arch:all, and (>= ${source:Version}) for arch:all depending on arch:any.
<james_w> \sh: there's an explicit list in debian/rules
<\sh> james_w, yeah I just realized how crazy this is ...
<Ubulette> who assigned bug 164123 to MOTU ? it should be mozillateam. In fact, i have the package ready for review.. just waiting for asac to come back.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164123 in firefox-3.0 "Firefox 3 Gran Paradiso need upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164123
<\sh> Ubulette, as it seems, that this package is in universe, it's motu land so it's correct...you need to catch those reports and push them to your team
<persia> Ubulette: There's actually tons of bugs in universe randomly assigned to MOTU.  Feel free to reassign.
<persia> Ubulette: If you have a working watch file or get-orig-source, sending it to the sponsors queue might get it uploaded faster (and yes, I know we've had this discussion before :) )
<Kmos> ubotu: how about firefox 2.0.0.9 for gutsy ?
<Kmos> Ubulette: how about firefox 2.0.0.9 for gutsy ?
<Ubulette> no security fix in this one so no.
<\sh> Kmos, i thought there was a report to -security
<persia> Kmos: That'd be a backport, no?  Not something done by the mozillateam, eh?
<Kmos> persia: can't be a SRU ?
<Ubulette> maybe 2.0.0.10 in a few days
<\sh> Ubulette, is this .jar exploit not fixed?
<persia> !sru | Kmos
<ubotu> Kmos: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
 * Kmos follow the link
<persia> Kmos: Pay special attention to the criteria for SRU: it needs to be completely broken in some way.
<Ubulette> \sh, I'll check but asac usually prefers to do ff2 himself. I do ff3.
<\sh> Ubulette, reading the release notes of 2.0.0.9 there are no sec fixes inside...
<Kmos> persia: if it has a security vuln. ubuntu-security team should handle it from -security repository, and can't be a SRU
<persia> Kmos: Right.  And if it works for most people, it also can't be SRU.
<\sh> Kmos, security vulnerability != completly broken ,-)
<soothsayer> How should a package deal with a file superceding a file from another package? That is, package-2 needs to a different version of a file provided by package-1.
<Kmos> \sh: yeah.
<Kmos> persia: thanks
<persia> soothsayer: There are a number of solutions, depending on the nature of the target file.  Could you share a little more context?
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I have done all the stuff (moved all my SVN round) to make building the diff automated - but the diff file seems to have Date and times of the files in the diff and it mentions every file : is this correct?
<Kmos> 2.0.0.9 isn't at hardy.. so can't be backported yet
<persia> Kmos: No problems: you've not annoyed me lately, so you get good answers to questions :)
<StevenHarperUK> persia: can I PM you the text
<james_w> soothsayer: are these two binary packages built from one source?
<soothsayer> persia: I'm happy to share context but I don't know very much about the internals of the two packages.
<soothsayer> james_w: No.
<Kmos> persia :) i hope i continue this way
<james_w> soothsayer: what sort of file is it? (binary, config, docs?)
<soothsayer> james_w: They are two libraries
<soothsayer> Neither are packaged, I'm trying to build packages for them.
<james_w> soothsayer: ah, that's tricky.
<Ubulette> Kmos, I can easily prepare 2.0.0.9 for hardy but it's useless, 2.0.0.10 is almost out
<james_w> soothsayer: are you just packaging the libraries, or dependent binaries?
<soothsayer> james_w: Just the libs
<james_w> soothsayer: and is it necessary to package both?
<\sh> more important is, how do we get the sec fixes from .10 to gutsy ;)
<Kmos> Ubulette: ok =)
<soothsayer> james_w: I don't need to package either. Packages are just to make my life easier
<\sh> reading about those .jar crap..it's important
<james_w> soothsayer: yes, but why two versions?
<james_w> soothsayer: do they have the same soname?
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Could you pastebin it?
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I have never used that, ill go try thou
<persia> !pastebin | StevenHarperUK
<ubotu> StevenHarperUK: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<soothsayer> james_w: The conflicting files are header files. I'll post a diff of the files, just a sec.
<brandonperry> did anyone in here package hardinfo for gutsy?
<StevenHarperUK> persia: http://pastebin.com/d44468f9
<persia> brandonperry: No.
<brandonperry> or was it just moved from the feisty repos to the gutsy?
<brandonperry> k
<james_w> soothsayer: ah, then these are -dev packages we are talking about, that's slightly different. It is possible to have two versions of a library installed at once, but headers are a lot more tricky.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45702/
<persia> StevenHarperUK: What command did you use to generate that?
<james_w> soothsayer: if the two versions are incompatible then you are a bit stuck.
<soothsayer> james_w: Ah made a mistake. One library is already packaged and provided by Ubuntu. The other is not yet packaged and has the aforementioned conflict.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: diff -urN debian.old debian > easycrypt.debian.patch
<\sh> brandonperry, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hardinfo/
<\sh> brandonperry, so you can see it came from debian
<soothsayer> james_w:  http://www.pastebin.ca/795883
<brandonperry> ah
<soothsayer> ^ Diff of the files
<brandonperry> ok
<brandonperry> thanks
<james_w> soothsayer: thanks
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Ah.  I was hoping for the output of `interdiff -z easycrypt_0.2.1.11-0ubuntu1.diff.gz easycrypt_0.2.1.12-0ubuntu1.diff.gz`
<StevenHarperUK> persia: ok that will be done
<StevenHarperUK> persia: back soon
<persia> brandonperry: Now, why did you ask?  If you have a question about the hardinfo packaging, we may be able to answer?
<soothsayer> james_w: The two packages are 'gmp' (already packaged) and Linbox (which I'm trying to package)
<brandonperry> well, it is completely unstable on gutsy
<brandonperry> but is fine on feisty
<james_w> soothsayer: so linbox uses a copy of gmp?
<LucidFox> reuploaded avidemux: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux
<brandonperry> that is it
<persia> brandonperry: Hmmm...  It looks like it's a newer version on gutsy.  You'd likely do best to file a bug report.
<brandonperry> it isn't really a question as much as an observation
<brandonperry> k
<james_w> soothsayer: they don't look incompatible to me, so the solution would be to make linbox use the system gmp.
<soothsayer> james_w: What do you mean exactly? It uses gmp and apparently needs a modified header file. It doesn't provide another version of gmp apart from the header
<james_w> soothsayer: (also most people use diff -u, I personally find it much more readable)
<james_w> soothsayer: it just has the header file? That's a little odd.
 * persia suspects a private implementation
<james_w> soothsayer: is your /usr/include/gmp++/gmp++.h the one from the packages gmp++?
<soothsayer> http://www.pastebin.ca/795888
<soothsayer> ^ diff -u
<soothsayer> james_w: I believe so. I'll verify it...
<james_w> soothsayer: thanks.
<james_w> soothsayer: it may well be, but things like __GIVARO_GMP_VERSION_3 stick out.
<james_w> soothsayer: also, I can't find /usr/include/gmp++/gmp++.h in Ubuntu.
<soothsayer> james_w: You are right it is from Givaro.
<soothsayer> james_w: Still, same problem only now neither library is already packaged.
<james_w> libgmp3-dev provides /usr/include/gmpxx.h
<james_w> soothsayer: you should see how the versions you have differ with that file.
<james_w> soothsayer: is it http://ljk.imag.fr/CASYS/LOGICIELS/givaro/ ?
<soothsayer> http://www.pastebin.ca/795893
<soothsayer> james_w: Yes. The other package is at linalg.org
<soothsayer> http://www.linalg.org
<soothsayer> s/package/library
<james_w> soothsayer: ok, this is quite odd, but it looks to me that you could package givaro, and then the other lib, but make it use givaro's copy of that header.
<james_w> however the copyright situation of the givaro library might be a little shaky.
<RainCT> davromaniak: ping
<soothsayer> james_w: Are you sure that the two headers are compatible?
<davromaniak> RainCT, pong
<james_w> soothsayer: not *sure*, but the first diff you showed looks like they should be.
<soothsayer> james_w: Alright, thanks.
<james_w> soothsayer: maybe I was a bit quick on the copyright warning, I would check it carefully, but it looks like it might be ok.
<RainCT> davromaniak: someone is asking me about dvdstyler, are you still working on this?
<davromaniak> yes, but I don't a big amount of spare time to work on it
<davromaniak> and the upstream tgz is not clean
<soothsayer> james_w: Yeah, okay. I'll check out the copyright situation if I manage to get it packaged.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I have done the interdiff : and automated it all - does this look correct now please http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45704/
<persia> StevenHarperUK: The format is correct.  I've a few comments about the content: firstly, why doesn't upstream adopt the manpage?  secondly, since 0.2.1.12 and 0.2.1.13 were never released as official .dsc, you don't need debian/changelog entries for them, thirdly it's preferred to state "New Upstream Version" rather than "no packaging changes": remember that when you edit debian/changelog, you do it with your distribution maintainer hat, rather th
<StevenHarperUK> persia: What does adopt the manpage mean
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Move the manpage from debian/ into the upstream sources, so it ends up in orig.tar.gz, and is installed by the upstream build system.  This way, if the package is used in another distribution, that distribution also gets to use the manpage.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: can I please do that for 0.2.1.15?
<soothsayer> james_w: If it turns out that they are not compatible, what are my options?
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Certainly.  It's not a sponsorship block, just advice :)
<StevenHarperUK> persia: its sound like good advice too
<soothsayer> It's upstream's mistake right?
<persia> StevenHarperUK: For the upload, I would prefer the removal of the extra changelog entries, and the use of "New Upstream Version" though.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Already done : please check - http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45710/
<Ubulette> what's the path to get a new package in hardy ? I have Prism ready for a while. https://edge.launchpad.net/prism/   (It's a SVN release so far)
<james_w> soothsayer: well, that would be why they were shipping a private copy, but as it's just the header file that would be a really bad idea.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: hold on that s nto it
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Not it
<james_w> soothsayer: the best solution would be to modify linbox so it is compatible.
<persia> StevenHarperUK: you're too late, but I'll wait :)
<soothsayer> james_w: Okay thakns
<soothsayer> *thanks
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Here you go : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45711/
<james_w> soothsayer: no problem.
<persia> StevenHarperUK: From a visual scan, that looks pretty good.  Please attach it to a bug and subscribe the sponsors team to request upload.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I will but should I not test it first?
<persia> StevenHarperUK: I thought you already did that :)
<RainCT> man-di: ping
<StevenHarperUK> persia: doing it now, ta
 * persia encourages abstention from contentless pings
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Tests Pass ill get it submitted, thanks for you as usual superb help
<persia> StevenHarperUK: No problem.  Thanks for taking the trouble to maintain your software in Ubuntu.  Now that you've done it once, I suspect future upgrades should go smoothly.
<StevenHarperUK> Very smoothly : I have automated it all with scripts
<StevenHarperUK> All in SVN if  your interested
<StevenHarperUK> persia: http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/branches/easycrypt/0.2.1.14/easycrypt/build_compare.sh
<persia> StevenHarperUK: I tend to use dpkg-parsechangelog to get the current version, and then pull from VCS using that version as a tag with a get-orig-source rule in debian/rules.  Further, by using the VCS-* tags in debian/control, one can identify the branches for the debian revisions.  You may also be interested in the pristine-tar package.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: ill add it into my list of things to investigate
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Good luck.  My mechanisms may not be ideal for you, as I touch lots of software, whereas you're also doing the development, but there are more tools that support VCS* and get-orig-source which you could leverage int he future :)
<Ubulette> so, noone for my question about getting Prism into hardy ?
<persia> Ubulette: which question again?
<Ubulette> persia, what do I have to do to 1st get it in there ?
<persia> Ubulette: All new packages should go to REVU.  Once it's clean, and it gets two advocates, it gets uploaded.  You can get it through REVU faster by trying to make it as clean as possible and running all the automated checks before each upload.  Further, ask for review here once a day, and more often on Mondays to encourage people to look at it.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I have Subscribed the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team to my bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/164880 : is that the last step for now?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164880 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.1.14-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<persia> StevenHarperUK: I usually recommend adding a short summary of the upstream changelog in the description of the bug to explain why the upgrade is a good idea, but at this point you wait.  The sponsors usually provide a response within a day or so.
<StevenHarperUK> OK ill add that to  the bug
<StevenHarperUK> and Ill mark it as passed, when it get uploaded And  builds for all
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Ok i'm off to entertain kids now
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Cya
<Ubulette> persia, so I need to register to yet another system. damn. you guys know how to make life harder than it should be :P
<Ubulette> ok, I joined w-w-c, now i wait ?
<persia> Ubulette: No registration required.  Just join ~ubuntu-universe-contributors in LP.
<Ubulette> u-u-x
<Ubulette> u-u-c
<Ubulette> damn fingers
<persia> Ubulette: Right.  Unfortunately, I've forgotten how to resync the keyring, so we'll have to wait for another REVU admin
 * DktrKranz should ask a REVU admin to add him to the reviewers group...
 * persia looks for docs, hoping someone appears to provide guidance...
<\sh> DktrKranz, there are bugreports on LP for tikiwikipikisikiklicki, right?
<\sh> hooray..I just learned how dokos selfmade patch system is working for python
<DktrKranz> \sh, only one open for tikiwikipikisikiklicki (bug 163833), but several CVEs
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163833 in tikiwiki "[tikiwiki] Multiple vulnerabilities possibly resulting in the remote execution of arbitrary code" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163833
<persia> Right.  DktrKranz, Ubulette: I must apologize, but I don't seem to be able to figure out how to perform the tasks.  Please look for another admin in a few hours.
<ScottK> Maybe imbrandon is awake?  I'm pretty sure he knows how.
<DktrKranz> persia, No problem. Thanks for trying,
<\sh> DktrKranz, ah cool...I'll assign it to me  and fix it after I won the fight with python :)
<Ubulette> hmm; ok. it says it's also autosynced nightly. depends on when nightly is...
<DktrKranz> \sh these one are for sure: CVE-2006-6457 CVE-2007-4554 CVE-2007-5423
<ubotu> tiki-wiki_rss.php in Tikiwiki 1.9.5, 1.9.2, and possibly other versions allows remote attackers to obtain sensitive information (MySQL username and password) via an invalid (large or negative) ver parameter, which leaks the information in an error message. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2006-6457)
<ubotu> Cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability in tiki-remind_password.php in Tikiwiki (aka Tiki CMS/Groupware) 1.9.7 allows remote attackers to inject arbitrary web script or HTML via the username parameter.  NOTE: this issue might be related to CVE-2006-2635.7. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-4554)
<ubotu> Eval injection vulnerability in tiki-graph_formula.php in TikiWiki 1.9.8 allows remote attackers to execute arbitrary code via PHP sequences in the f array parameter. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-5423)
<\sh> hmm.why are 6457 and 4554 not added to the bug then?
<DktrKranz> \sh, which fight? I like fighting, even if I usually lose...
<\sh> DktrKranz, just fixing python2.5 (CVE-2007-4965)
<ubotu> Multiple integer overflows in the imageop module in Python 2.5.1 and earlier allow context-dependent attackers to cause a denial of service (application crash) and possibly obtain sensitive information (memory contents) via crafted arguments to (1) the tovideo method, and unspecified other vectors related to (2) imageop.c, (3) rbgimgmodule.c, and other files, which trigger heap-based buffer overflows. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-
<\sh> DktrKranz, and fighting with dokos patch system
<DktrKranz> another patch system to learn? Is it complex enough to be loved? :)
<\sh> DktrKranz, it's one of those systems, you want to forget...but I know doko, so there is always a reason for this
<DktrKranz> Is it in python2.5? I'm curious to see it, just for my reference
<\sh> DktrKranz, yepp...apt-get source python2.5
 * DktrKranz loves quilt now...
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> my workstation fcks around with me...always crashing
<man-di> RainCT: pong
<DktrKranz> \sh, that's the main issue with developmet releases :)
<\sh> DktrKranz, running gursy
<\sh> gutsy
<DktrKranz> ah...
<\sh> think more a hardware problem...well nextmonth there is new hardware coming
<DktrKranz> what about early upgrade, then? :D
<\sh> crap
<\sh> what is a good mp3/ogg player for the console?
<persia> \sh: mpg123?
<RainCT> man-di: about classpath, does the ./configure file still need to be patched in Ubuntu or are the changes in Debian now?
<\sh> persia, looks like that mpg123 doesn't handle ogg somehow
<man-di> RainCT: what is patched in Ubuntu?
<man-di> RainCT: was this about the mozilla headers?
<RainCT> man-di: yes. * Add /usr/include/xulrunner to CLASSPATH_INCLUDES in configure, * And MOZILLA_CFLAGS
<persia> \sh: ogg123?
<\sh> Package ogg123 is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<\sh> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<\sh> is only available from another source
<\sh> E: Package ogg123 has no installation candidate
<RainCT> \sh: I used xmms2 for a while
<persia> RainCT: on the console?
<RainCT> yes
 * persia didn't know it did that
<man-di> RainCT: I need to check
<RainCT> it runs in the background so you can close the terminal and it continues playing, and switch songs from any window, etc. :)
<persia> \sh: ogg123 is provided by "vorbis-tools".  Don't you have command-missing (or whatever it's called) installed?
<\sh> persia, it doesn't matter ogg123 is broken somehow
<\sh> ogg123 *.ogg
<\sh> Creating link /home/shermann/.kde/socket-acer-p4-home.
<\sh> can't create mcop directory
<persia> \sh: Ah.  Sorry about that: I haven't tried it in a while.
<\sh> but why the hell it has kde support?
<persia> I'm really not sure why it pokes .kde though.
<\sh> ah
<\sh> this bastard had ogg123 -d arts
<\sh> as default
<persia> That's not right.
<\sh> correct
<persia> I don't suppose you're uploading the fix now?
<\sh> lol
<\sh> persia, it's gutsy
<persia> \sh: Ah.  Not much we can do about that for gutsy, but maybe we can prevent annoying people in 5 months?
<\sh> yepp...but first let me finish this python stuff
<persia> \sh: Thanks.
<\sh> hmmm...how is vorbis determine the default device if it's not alsa?
<\sh> hmm...it's libao
<\sh> first ogg123 tries config file setting, then it tries libao default device....
<persia> \sh: libao2 should point to ALSA, and libao-pulse should point to pulseaudio.  Where do you want it to point?
<\sh> persia, yes it should, but it doesn't point to alsa, as I saw just now
<\sh> when you start ogg123 it wants arts
 * persia grabs code, as this doesn't make sense
<\sh> persia, right...
<persia> \sh: And ogg123 -d alsa doesn't work?
<\sh> persia, ogg123 -d alsa works,
<\sh> but ogg123 -> points to arts by default...
<\sh> so ao_default_driver_id is at fault it seems
<\sh> hey jono
<jono> hey \sh :)
<LaserJock> hi jono
<jono> heya LaserJock :)
<\sh> persia, ok.../etc/libao.conf tells me that the default_driver=alsa09 is
 * persia hunts an .ogg file
<LaserJock> persia: looks like you been doing some wiki work today
<LaserJock> :-)
<persia> LaserJock: Not as much as I ought :(
<LaserJock> something anyway
<LaserJock> was that Launchpad page new?
<persia> \sh: I think it's local: when I try it, it hits ALSA by default.
<\sh> persia, do you have kde installed next to gnome?
<persia> LaserJock: That LP page was ancient: early feisty: my first attempt at fulfilling your desire for process documentation.
<persia> \sh: No.
<\sh> persia, add kubuntu-desktop to your installation and try again
<\sh> LaserJock, do you have kubuntu installed next to gnome=?
 * persia doesn't have that much free disk space, and seeks a Kubuntu tester for ogg123 to replicate \sh's issue.
<LaserJock> \sh: yes
<persia> LaserJock: Do you have an ogg file?
<LaserJock> hmm, surely somewhere, let me locate
<\sh> LaserJock, ok...can you try ogg123...and tell me what it uses as output device? alsa or arts?
 * persia points at http://www.vorbis.com/music/ for easy download if you have trouble
<persia> (package is vorbis-tools)
<LaserJock> ah sweet lots of .oggs
<LaserJock> \sh: how would I tell what the output device would be? and should I do it in gnome or kde?
<\sh> LaserJock, in gnome :)
<persia> LaserJock: run it in a terminal: it prints the output device when it starts
<LaserJock> ok, it says alsa
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> gutsy?`
<persia> OK.  Now try it in KDE, just in case (if you don't mind)
<LaserJock> yep, gutsy
<LaserJock> ok, one sec
<persia> \sh: Have you already checked /etc/libao.conf?
<\sh> persia, yepp it says default_device=alsa09
<\sh> shermann@acer-p4-home:~$ cat /etc/libao.conf
<\sh> default_driver=alsa09
<persia> \sh: Try deleting the "09".  I'm fairly certain gutsy has the 1.0 API.
<\sh> persia, hmmm..it was a new install earlier for this gutsy
<\sh> persia, yepp...the 09 was the problem
<\sh> persia, now I can listen to http://www.jamendo.com/album/5172 :)
<persia> Hmmm...  I wonder how that happened.
<persia> \sh: Is that your guitar & electronica experiment?
<\sh> persia, nope...that a french group...playing a mixture of trance and  j.m-jarre
<LaserJock> ok, back
<LaserJock> it's arts in KDE
<\sh> persia, it's in the source file of libao-0.8.8
<persia> LaserJock: Interesting...
<mok0> I think several packages, that have been modified in Ubuntu, are merely adding desktop entries and the like. Wouldn't it make more sense to let the package go unchanged, but with a companion package that supplies the Ubuntu-specific files. Just a thought.
<LaserJock> mok0: actually, it makes the most sense to send the changes upstream
<persia> mok0: No, because that would require extra infrastructure.  Amusingly, we have a package that contains all the .desktop files painfully extracted from each package to which we add them, but those .desktop files are excluded from view by default.
<LaserJock> persia: does that include Universe packages?
<LaserJock> I guess it might
 * persia agrees with LaserJock, but encourages also passing to Debian because some upstreams take years to add them (even when you help with other patches to their code)
<LaserJock> well sure
<persia> LaserJock: Yep: app-install-data includes everything, which is one of the reasons I believe we need more desktop files.
 * \sh grabs something to eat
<LaserJock> I'm just saying making changes in Ubuntu are usually fine as long as you're sending stuff upstream
<mok0> ... and, there may be several formats of desktopf files (?)
<persia> mok0: There's only supposed to be one, but not everything is compliant.
<\sh> persia, please change it in libao2 ,-) just change the libao.conf in debian/ dir
 * persia encourages everyone to run http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/find-missing-desktop and submit fixes.
<mok0> It's just because I just looked at an entry where the only change as an added .desktop file
<mok0> It got me thinking
<persia> \sh: In 0.8.8-3 in hardy, I see alsa: Clint made it all better 1st July, but someone forgot to include it for gutsy :(
<LaserJock> mok0: yes, they are trivial
<persia> mok0: They are small, but if they are missing, the application doesn't show in Add/Remove programs, which isn't ideal.
<LaserJock> mok0: but since debian traditionally doesn't emphasize .desktops because they have their own menu system
<\sh> persia, would this be a case for an SRU?
<persia> \sh: I don't think so: let me check the criteria again
<persia> !sru
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<LaserJock> mok0: but as persia said, if there isn't a .desktop it won't show up in the menu or Add/Remove
<nxvl> hi folks!
<persia> LaserJock: As Debian gets more f.d.o compliant WMs, .desktop files are becoming more popular.
<nxvl> where can i find the installer team?
<mok0> But it would still be there if it was added in a xxxx-desktop package.
<\sh> persia, it's not covered
<persia> \sh: It's not a security issue, and there's no data loss.  Could we call it a "severe regression"?
<\sh> persia, but "Bugs which may, under realistic circumstances, directly cause a security vulnerability" is wrong there too..because security issues are handled totally different...and aren't handled through -proposed...
<persia> mok0: Right, but app-install-data wouldn't associate it with the right meta-data, and it wouldn't work properly.
<mok0> persia: agreed. It would need some rules to be implemented when packages are installed
<persia> \sh: The policy came before the new -security policy.  Go compain to TB if you want, but I don't think it matters much.
<LaserJock> persia: that's what I hope
<persia> LaserJock: which?
<\sh> persia, tbh, I can't decide this..the problem is I don't know how many other apps are hit by this issue
<LaserJock> persia: about Debian picking them up more
<persia> \sh: 30 of them
<LaserJock> mok0: that would certainly be doable, but my complaint about that would be that it really belongs upstream
<persia> LaserJock: Ah, yes.  It's getting easier, and when they pick them up, they even install them in the right place these days.
<LaserJock> mok0: so we should invest in things that shouldnt' be our problem
<LaserJock> persia: yes, most at least see the usefulness of them, even if they don't use them directly
<persia> LaserJock: What do you think about libao not using the correct output by default in gutsy as a "severe regression"?
<mok0> LaserJock: As persia said, you can't expect upstream to service ubuntu. Plus, UI and desktop environments change all the time
<LaserJock> mok0: it's not just Ubuntu
<ScottK> persia: Did it work in Feisty?
<LaserJock> mok0: it's the freedesktop.org standard
<persia> mok0: Actually, the whole point of the f.d.o spec is so it won't change.
<persia> ScottK: Yes.
<mok0> LaserJock: Ok
<\sh> persia, well, then its a severe regression
<LaserJock> mok0: it's just that Ubuntu really cares about things showing up in Gnome/KDE menus
 * \sh needs some food
<mok0> But one solution doesn''t rule out the other...
 * persia checks one more thing
<mok0> We could have extra packages as long as they are needed
<LaserJock> mok0: right, but there's really no advantage
<LaserJock> mok0: merging .desktops is pretty trivial
<mok0> less maintenance
<LaserJock> but we'd have to maintain the giant database of .desktops
<LaserJock> and worry about getting out of synce, etc.
<mok0> LaserJock: :-) true
<persia> mok0: No, because we still have to merge/demerge everything to match Debian, and if it's all in one package, we have a higher chance of conflicting timing
<LaserJock> mok0: and actually, I think the maintanece pain is a good thing
<mok0> LaserJock: what?
<LaserJock> mok0: it encourages MOTUs to send things upstream so they get rid of it
<persia> LaserJock: Would you be willing to process an SRU to make libao work on gutsy?  It's a 2 character change to the default configuration file.
<persia> Not just MOTUs: Contributors too, as the Contributor gets assigned the merge.
<LaserJock> persia: why me? :-)
<persia> LaserJock: You can?
<LaserJock> what's the current policy?
<persia> !sru | laserjock (main)
<ubotu> laserjock (main): Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<LaserJock> persia: oh, you need a core dev?
 * LaserJock wondered why you couldn't just do it ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: RIght :)
<ScottK> Do we have a PDF tool that will let me fill out an encrypted PDF (the .deb from Adobe's site will do it)?
<LaserJock> persia: bug #?
<persia> Errr.  \sh: did you file a bug?
<\sh> persia, I'll do just now
<\sh> give me a sec
<LaserJock> persia: so you guys got a different result than I did?
<persia> LaserJock: No, your result is correct.  The problem is that it only works by accident in GNOME and it doesn't work in KDE.  It's calling the wrong ALSA API, and fails, so it drops to the fallback, and in GNOME that's ALSA, so one doesn't notice, but in KDE that's aRts, which is not what one expects.
<LaserJock> what does one expect?
<LaserJock> alsa both cases?
<persia> LaserJock: Right, because it should be using the libao default driver, which should be "alsa", but it's set to "alsa09"
<\sh> LaserJock, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libao/+bug/164899
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164899 in libao "libao.conf in gutsy is wrong. (alsa09 is set as default)" [Undecided,New]
<LaserJock> but does it still output?
<LaserJock> albeit with the wrong driver
<persia> LaserJock: Only if the client app has a fallback.  ogg123 has three methods: local, libao, and raw.  Not every app is so flexible.
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> so libao is screwed
<LaserJock> and we're just relying on the depending apps to fallback
<persia> LaserJock: Right, because we didn't grab the bugfix from Debian before release.
<persia> Debian bug #427903
<ubotu> Debian bug 427903 in libao2 "change default driver in /etc/libao.conf" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/427903
<\sh> LaserJock, if you set it directly to alsa it plays, but not by default
<LaserJock> ok, but as far as whether this is SRU, what goes wrong for the user?
<persia> If the client app doesn't have a fallback, there's no audio.
<LaserJock> ok, and how many are there?
<persia> 27
<LaserJock> that don't have a fallback
<persia> Err.  That'll take some research.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> it just seems hard to determine the importance
<LaserJock> but possibly breaking 27 deps is pretty darn big
<\sh> LaserJock, I think they are broken now
<LaserJock> well, ogg123 isn't, do you have a few examples of some that are?
<\sh> LaserJock, ogg123 is
<\sh> LaserJock, defaults to alsa09 and tries arts first
<\sh> LaserJock, mpg321 e.g.
<\sh> mpg321 *.ogg
<\sh> Creating link /home/shermann/.kde/socket-acer-p4-home.
<\sh> can't create mcop directory
<LaserJock> it falls back to something else
<\sh> LaserJock, yes to arts
<\sh> because libao finds arts, if there is arts on it..
<LaserJock> I'm saying that to the user is that broken?
<LaserJock> I realize it's broken in that it's not picking up alsa
<persia> From a quick hunt, the following don't have fallback: waon, shell-fm, pytone (and likely other python-pyao rdeps), mpg321, mpc123, liquidsoap (unless you count icecast as a fallback), possibly libao-ruby1.8 clients, possibly libao-ocaml clients, gnomoradio, flac123, d4x, aldo, cdrdao
<LaserJock> ok, excellent
<LaserJock> that's what we need to se
<LaserJock> *see
<LaserJock> and this is fixed in Hardy, right?
<persia> Mind you, that's just grabbing apps that have no other sound libraries as reverse depends.
<persia> Yes, it's fixed in hardy due to autosync.
<LaserJock> persia: seems fairly reasonable
<persia> LaserJock: Right, but it's a minimal case: for instance I don't know what the default sound output for quake2 is: perhaps the user needs to tweak something internal to make it not use libao.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I just need some at least some estimate of immportance
 * persia looks to \sh who has more experience with main SRUs
<LaserJock> so I think that bug needs to get filled out with the necessary info and a patch and get Ubuntu SRU to approve
<LaserJock> but it sounds like a reasonable SRU to me
<\sh> persia, lol...I never did main SRUs :)
<\sh> LaserJock, I'll give you more infos...as discussed here with a patch as well....and a debdiff for -proposed
<LaserJock> \sh: well, with Main you need to follow the wiki page
<\sh> LaserJock, yepp
<LaserJock> and provide the info and subscribe the Ubuntu SRU team
<LaserJock> once it's approved you can upload to -proposed
<persia> \sh: Weren't you core?
<LaserJock> and I can do that
<LaserJock> if you like
<\sh> persia, I was yes, but I never did SRUs for main or universe...
<persia> Ah....  slacker!
<\sh> persia, I never found something which is really so important that it had to be fixed asap :)
<bmk789__> dfgjg          aeri tft
<bmk789__> g]b/;[jyu;[ju;[jy]ewrdfcvbnmjhuy74569873216driufhjs8red04fo%^TI%ujik0
<bmk789__> sorry, 4 year old found the keyboard
<LaserJock> hehe
<mok0> bmk789__: dfasdfk sf wer sfpÃ¥pu9ij asdfasd q asfa
<mok0> :)
<\sh> grmpf...bloody phone
<scorpioxy> Hey guys. I have a question regarding a python panel applet package. Where does the whole pycentral and pysupport fall in a package where i have already defined its dependencies(which are minimal), is it needed?
<LaserJock> scorpioxy: you need dh_pycentral or dh_pysupport in debian/rules
<LaserJock> scorpioxy: if you're converting an old packge look for dh_python and replace it
<\sh> persia, I just cound 27 apps which are using libao2
<scorpioxy> LaserJock: Yes, but i still don't understand what it does. I read the manpage...but didn't understand it. Can you point me somewhere for a meaningful description? Or perhaps an explanation please...
<\sh> count
<ScottK> scorpioxy: What you want to look at is the Debian Python policy.  That'll explain why those are wanted.
<avoine> what could be my mistake if when I build the package the files of the software are copie to debian/Myprog/ but the DEBIAN directory is not create?
<scorpioxy> ScottK: I already did that, but let me take a look again, perhaps i missed something
<LaserJock> avoine: how did you build the package?
<avoine> debuild -b -uc -us
<LaserJock> oh
<avoine> maybe its setup.py that delete the DEBIAN folder
<LaserJock> is that from a source package?
<avoine> yes
<LaserJock> and it has a debian/ directory?
<avoine> yes
<avoine> this is my debien/rules file: http://pastebin.ca/796117
<avoine> *debian
<scorpioxy> ScottK: Ok, i just read it again. And here's my problem. I don't think its relevant to what i'm building. You see it talks about modules and byte compiling modules. My app is a simple panel app so its dependencies are well know. Just python, and the gnome panel deps and so on...
<ScottK> scorpioxy: What will your package do when the default Python changes from Python 2.5 to 2.6 and both are installed in the system?
<scorpioxy> ScottK: Nothing! It uses env for default python...Is it supposed to do something?
<ScottK> For a Python application it might not be needed.  But you do need to make sure you correctly support multiple Python's installed and version transitions.
<\sh> scorpioxy, it could fail to run
 * RainC1 wonders why the Liberation fonts aren't in the repo
<LaserJock> RainC1: they aren't?
<LaserJock> avoine: hmm, that seems at least reasonable
<LaserJock> avoine: where were you looking for the DEBIAN folder?
<scorpioxy> ScottK: Well, ok. I am not sure how and why though. If i depend on python >=2.5. Thanks anyway.
<RainCT> LaserJock: no, unless they've renamed them :P. couldn't find them neither in Debian nor Ubuntu.. :S
<avoine> in debian/penguintv/
<ScottK> scorpioxy: I'd have to give you app a detailed review that I don't have time to to know for sure.  You may not need pycentral or pysupport.  Most of the policy is written for Modules.
<scorpioxy> \sh: It doesn't do anything particularly complex. How do you think it could fail?
<scorpioxy> ScottK: Yes that's what i understood from the policy. thanks
<LaserJock> RainCT: actually I do think it's could be in a different package name
<\sh> scorpioxy, syntax changes whatever...not necessary, but could happen..
 * RainCT also searched in descriptions, btw
<LaserJock> RainCT: I can't keep all the fonts straight. Are they the ones that Red Hat did?
<RainCT> exactly
<scorpioxy> \sh: ok thanks anyway
<scorpioxy> One more general question. What do some people use as alternatives(if any) to the horrible autotools?
<\sh> wasn't scons an alternative?
<LaserJock> RainCT: I sure thought they were ar least in Hardy
<\sh> SCons is a make replacement providing a range of enhanced features such
<\sh>  as automated dependency generation and built in compilation cache
<\sh>  support.
<scorpioxy> \sh: Yup, scons, cmake, rake....there are a lot...i was interested in seeing if anybody is actually using something else
<LaserJock> I've used cmake
<scorpioxy> \sh: althoug, for me at least, scons sounded to focus on directed compilation much more than a general build tool
<\sh> scorpioxy, well, dunno....when I have to use something, its auto*crap
<valles_> hello all
<\sh> scorpioxy, I'm an old m4 junky, spending lots of hours hacking sendmail m4 files  etc
<RainCT> LaserJock: bug 113889
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113889 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Ubuntu needs the Liberation Fonts" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/113889
<LaserJock> scorpioxy: I think most all KDE4 stuff is cmake these days
<scorpioxy> LaserJock: yes, that's right...i am following some modules in kde..
<scorpioxy> \sh: Well, the "used-to" factor plays a lot here
<scorpioxy> although i was considering just how difficult it would be to move away from autotools because of all that legacy work already out there
<scorpioxy> specifically debian and debian based systems i guess
<\sh> ok...finished all python2.5 versions from edgy to gutsy...now I have to fix all python2.4 versions down to dapper, and several python2.3 and python2.2 versions :(
<\sh> scorpioxy, for distros it's not important what build systems upstream uses...
<\sh> scorpioxy, we are building packages with auto*foo, scons, cmake, whatever you can think of..there are some pitfalls, but this will be handled nicely by our buildd admins.
<scorpioxy> \sh: So from these other systems, which one would you prefer...personally and technically? any opinion on that?
<\sh> scorpioxy, nope...rake looks like ruby crap, scons has the power of python behind it, cmake is special for kde, auto* is quite balanced...
<scorpioxy> \sh: very old school... thanks for the help
<scorpioxy> LaserJock: thanks
<LaserJock> I like some things about cmake
<LaserJock> I think it might be a bit more limited than auto*
<\sh> LaserJock, it's just like finding the right partner for life :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I'm not sure my wife would like being compared to build systems ;-)
<LaserJock> "You are lovely like cmake, but have the versatility of autotools"
<scorpioxy> One more comment...i am so glad that they will finally deprecate bonbo for gnome-panel....there are some things in there that nobody knows anything about. they were written by micheal meeks and probably never changed since then...
<scorpioxy> LaserJock: why not? efficiency, automation, no mistakes, speed...these are all great attribute for a human being
<LaserJock> scorpioxy: I think she likes to think she's better than software :-)
<\sh> LaserJock, hehe
<scorpioxy> I think that there's few things better than a good piece of running code...but then again, i am not married....wonder why...
<scorpioxy> well, that's all the time i have for hacking on packaging...thanks all
<LaserJock> cya
<\sh> hmmm..the handling of CVE  bugs are really crap regarding launchpad
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<somerville32> Hiya
<\sh> doko_, I won the fight with your python* patch system ;)
<LaserJock> \sh: yes, there are several bugs open about LP's CVE handling
<LaserJock> \sh: Fujitsu is, I think, working on some stuff to help the situation
<\sh> LaserJock, I think some logical issues needs to be fixed...when you check bug #163845, e.g.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163845 in python2.5 "[python] Multiple integer overflow vulnerabilities possibly resulting in the execution of arbitrary code or DoS" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163845
<\sh> the CVE is valid for all major python versions we have, but only for python2.5 in gutsy, feisty and edgy
<\sh> so I can't nominate for python2.5 just those three releases..because I have to include python2.4 for dapper
<slangasek> persia: freezing universe is not essential at all, I don't think you need to worry about it
<LaserJock> I hope this new "freeze" will work
<LaserJock> I think it sounds more appealing
<Fujitsu> \sh: That's bug #110195.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110195 in malone "Nomination for a release on one source package shouldn't affect any others" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110195
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Can you please approve those tasks on \sh's bug? You have superpowers, don't you?
<\sh> Fujitsu, I confirmed it ...
<Fujitsu> \sh: Thanks.
<Ubulette> how can I know if REVU synced my gpg key ?
<somerville32> Ubulette, You see your upload :P
<Ubulette> well, I'm waiting for this sync to push for the 1st time there.
<somerville32> :)
<Ubulette> so, what ? should I just push and wait ?
 * somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Should show up in 5 mins or so
<\sh> no risk no fun ,-)
<Fujitsu> Ahhh, so it was bug #136634 that wiped out 60GB of mirror. Nice of it, really.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 136634 in libcompress-zlib-perl "Unable to download packages using Gutsy debmirror" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136634
<\sh> hmm...can someone confirm that tix8.1-dev suddenly disappeared from dapper?
<Fujitsu> \sh: Packages can't disappear from stable releases.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: which bug do I need to approve?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Bug #163845
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163845 in python2.5 "[python] Multiple integer overflow vulnerabilities possibly resulting in the execution of arbitrary code or DoS" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163845
<\sh> LaserJock, gutsy, feisty, edgy for python2.5, dapper for python2.5 is invalid
<\sh> LaserJock, gutsy, feisty, edgy, dapper for 2.4
<\sh> LaserJock, dapper for python2.3
<LaserJock> same for 2.3?
<LaserJock> ok
<\sh> and give me a sec to add python2.2 for dapper
<\sh> LaserJock, ok...python2.2 for dapper , too :9
<LaserJock> only dapper for 2.3?
<LaserJock> and 2.2
<\sh> yepp
<\sh> 2.3 and 2.2 for dapper only
<\sh>  -> Considering build-dep tix8.1-dev (>= 8.1.3.93)
<\sh> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=tix8.1-dev&searchon=names&subword=1&version=dapper&release=all
<LaserJock> well crap
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You have no choice, you'll get all tasks for everything.
<\sh> doesn't give me anything
<LaserJock> it won't separate by package
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Corrrrrrect. Bug #110195, as above.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110195 in malone "Nomination for a release on one source package shouldn't affect any others" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110195
<LaserJock> right ....
<\sh> argl
 * LaserJock kicks LP
<Ubulette> ok, upload to revu seemed fine.
<\sh> LaserJock, so push it back with dapper
<LaserJock> shall I just approve them all for now?
<\sh> yepp
<\sh> anyways, if this is right, that tix8.1-dev is not in dapper anymore, where is it then?
<Fujitsu> \sh: What were you trying to build that wants it?
<LaserJock> and I'll add a "me too" and motu tag to that bug
<\sh> Fujitsu, python2.2 in dapper
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Oh dear...
<\sh> Fujitsu, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/t/tix8.1/ is empty
<RAOF> imbrandon: Pong?
<Fujitsu> \sh: Any tix8.2?
<\sh> nope
<LaserJock> that's a really annoying bug
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: But it would be confusing otherwise! We couldn't possibly have an accurate representation of bug infestation...
<LaserJock> well, this is why bug tasks are sometimes insufficent
<LaserJock> we *should* be able to separate out what particular packages the bug affects, even if it is in different sources
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: They're actually very useful for this sort of thing
<Fujitsu> But that bug makes things annoying.
<LaserJock> I agree
<LaserJock> they are nice for this, but I don't know how exactly they would fix that bug
<Ubulette> how long does it take for a package to appear on revu ?
<LaserJock> wouldn't it make search results be off?
<somerville32> 5 minutes
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: The search results are already stuffed, they can't get much more broken.
<Fujitsu> And I don't see how fixing it would make them off.
<LaserJock> maybe not, but that's the only reason I could see for not fixing it
<Ubulette> somerville32, hmm, 8min already. will I get an email if it failed ?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Bug #163241 for an example of the stuff.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163241 in malone "Searching distribution series bugs by component shows bug reports multiple times" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163241
<Fujitsu> Where stuff = braindead search results.
<StevenHarperUK>  How long does a translation po take to get processed? Mine has been queued for ages https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/easycrypt/trunk/+imports
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: That is abnormally long, but there is a bit of a backlog at the moment. It shouldn't normally take more than a couple of weeks.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: thanks, after that do updates take as long?
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: or is there a steamlined process?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: so as a workaround should we just Invalid the tasks we don't need?
<Ubulette> revu hates me
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Correct.
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: I think they only need to be reviewed once.
<Fujitsu> (apologises, X died on me)
<Fujitsu> s/apologises/apologies/
<Fujitsu> I make too many typos lately :(
<LaserJock> ok Fujitsu and \sh, have another look at bug #163845
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163845 in python2.5 "[python] Multiple integer overflow vulnerabilities possibly resulting in the execution of arbitrary code or DoS" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163845
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Shudder.
<LaserJock> yeah yeah
<Fujitsu> There are a couple of tasks that I need to modify, but that looks right.
<LaserJock> ok, enough from me though?
<Fujitsu> I believe so.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: would it be possible to do some distributed rebuilding?
<LaserJock> would that mess up anything by just giving people difference chunks of Universe to do?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Ideally. pkern was doing some stuff with rebuildd, I believe.
<Fujitsu> That would be the plan.
<LaserJock> cause I've got an extra machine now
<LaserJock> I could dedicate it to rebuilding for a while I guess
<LaserJock> is just a matter of 1) get source 2)pbuild it 3) log results ?
<Fujitsu> Probably saner to use sbuild, or whatever rebuildd uses.
<Fujitsu> rebuildd is designed for just this sort of thing.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> ok
<Fujitsu> It replaces the wanna-build/buildd mess.
<LaserJock> hmm, rebuildd looks great from the description
<Ubulette> hmm, package is still not visible on revu, could someone help me ?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: you a revu admin now?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: No, but I can have a look at what's wrong.
<\sh> LaserJock, looks very good the bugreport...could you set the importance to high, too? :)
<Ubulette> Fujitsu, plz plz plz :)
<Fujitsu> \sh: I can set that if you want.
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: Looking.
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: Which package?
<Ubulette> prism
<Fujitsu> Right, it was rejected.
 * Fujitsu looks.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I added the "motu" tag to that bug
<LaserJock> hopefully we can get something going there
<Fujitsu> Ah, of course, I don't have permission to view the .changes.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Within a couple of years, hopefully.
<LaserJock> file bugs now for Launchpad 5.0
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: You need to build with -sa.
<Fujitsu> debuild -S -sa or so.
<Ubulette> Fujitsu, I did with -S -sa (but with dpkg-buildpackage, like I always do)
<Ubulette> Fujitsu, http://paste.ubuntu.com/2202/
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: I can't see it...
<Fujitsu> Hmm.
<Fujitsu> THe .orig.tar.gz isn't in the incoming directory.
<Fujitsu> Oh, there it is.
<Fujitsu> I'm blind.
<Fujitsu> Possibly a lack of key, but I can't do anything about that.
<Ubulette> ok, thanks
<RainCT> good night
<Fujitsu> Night RainCT.
<\sh> ok time to go to bed
<\sh> good night guys
<Fujitsu> Night \sh.
<LaserJock> goodnight \sh_away
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-25
<joejaxx> LaserJock: !! :D
 * joejaxx is bored :\
<LaserJock> hi joejaxx
<joejaxx> hi :)
 * joejaxx is bored :(
 * Fujitsu bores a hole through joejaxx.
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> :(
<joejaxx> i need something to do
<LaserJock> merges!!!!
<joejaxx> lol
 * Fujitsu whispers `CVEs'
<joejaxx> lol
 * LaserJock yells merges
<joejaxx> there are still merges?
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> of course
<LaserJock> probably a few hundred
<Fujitsu> Only about 200.
<joejaxx> 177 :)
<joejaxx> yeah
<Fujitsu> +20
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: 20 manual merges?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: 20 updated merges.
<Fujitsu> Didn't bother to count manuals.
<LaserJock> ah
 * TheMuso thinks we should clear outstanding before we even look at updated.
<joejaxx> launchpad has timed out for me a bit too often
 * TheMuso still has one merge of his own, but is in close contact with upstream for that package, and is waiting on what they are going to do.
 * TheMuso remembers the downtime.
<joejaxx> it impedes development
<joejaxx> TheMuso: i mean besides the scheduled downtime :(
<TheMuso> joejaxx: I know.
<TheMuso> joejaxx: But you mentioning LP reminded me. I had almost totally forgotten.
<joejaxx> ah ok
<LaserJock> oh, when is the downtime?
<StevenK> The 1.1.11 rollout is today?
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<LaserJock> StevenK: yeah yea
<TheMuso> StevenK: Yep.
<joejaxx> nov 25 3 - 11 utc
<StevenK> 2 and a bit hours
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> will that affect uploads?
<StevenK> And then it won't be back until 10pm local time
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I would think so.
<LaserJock> I've got a big upload to do
<LaserJock> I'll start it in a minute
<LaserJock> and hopefully it'll get done in time
<Ubulette> anyone able to resync that revu keyring ?
 * TheMuso decides to do the sponsors queue.
 * StevenK looks at a merge before playing WoW
<joejaxx> StevenK: you really play WoW ? :)
<LaserJock> I should try that some time
<LaserJock> they have a downloadable demo right?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i think so
<LaserJock> does it work in wine?
<joejaxx> yes
<StevenK> LaserJock: I have it running fine under wine on amd64, as does ajmitch
<LaserJock> hmm
<StevenK> LaserJock: You really want a recent Nvidia card, though
<RAOF> And me, too.
<StevenK> Gobs of RAM helps too
<LaserJock> ah, that wouldn't work for me
<joejaxx> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=9429
<joejaxx> i have an intel x3100
<joejaxx> fun stuff :(
<LaserJock> all I've got is a nvidia 5700 and a 5200
<StevenK> LaserJock: That'd work - something that's supported by -glx-new
<LaserJock> ah, k
<StevenK> WoW isn't particularly challenging to graphics hardware
<LaserJock> I was all excited to go to my grandfather's house
<LaserJock> so I could use his nice cable connection to upload gcompris
<LaserJock> but then I forgot to put it on my laptop before I left
<joejaxx> :(
<LaserJock> so I'm still stuck uploading it from home
<TheMuso> LaserJock: How big is the package?
<LaserJock> oh, about 100MB
<StevenK> LaserJock: You can download the orig from the Internet, surely?
<StevenK> LaserJock: And then copy the .dsc/.diff.gz from home?
<LaserJock> well, it won't be that big of a difference
<LaserJock> my home is 1.5M DSL
<LaserJock> with 386K up
<LaserJock> my grandpas cable is like 3M but I'm not sure what the upload speed is
<StevenK> That can be determined
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe I should just try it
<joejaxx> speedtest.net
<joejaxx> :)
<StevenK> LaserJock: My thought is the orig is the big bit, and that can be grabbed from a mirror
 * StevenK goes back to trying to find some Vegemite
<LaserJock> yeah, getting the .orig.tar.gz at like 500kb/s
<LaserJock> or K/s
 * StevenK might have to bring some Vegemite to the next UDS.
<TheMuso> StevenK: You missed it while you were away?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Not particularly, I just want to scare the locals
<TheMuso> StevenK: haha
<StevenK> Come on Quod, pick a good song
<LaserJock> dang, grandpa's connection is 12M/s down and 2M/s up
<LaserJock> a bit faster than my DSL
<StevenK> "Grandpa .... can I move in?"
<LaserJock> no cap either
<TheMuso> lol
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Truly unlimited? Wow.
<LaserJock> it's comcast, so I don't know what else they are doing to it
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> Gotta love sticking keys.
<joejaxx> TheMuso: :)
<LaserJock> but yeah, it's unlimited
<joejaxx> LaserJock: are you thinking about playing?
<LaserJock> sometime maybe
<joejaxx> ok
 * TheMuso idly wonders whether the buildds will catch up while launchpad is offline. I suspect not.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: The world stops when LP is down.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Great pitty that.
<StevenK> TheMuso: No, because the buildd management processes don't run while Launchpad is down - since they need to twiddle with the database.
<Fujitsu> The buildds have been assimilated into the LP.
<Fujitsu> So they don't operate.
<TheMuso> RIght, I knew all that, but just thought there was a remote chance...
<LaserJock> i would think they would queue up the uploads
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: The queue daemon probably won't be running, so the FTP service won't be running.
<StevenK> Mmmm, butter and Vegemite on toast
 * TheMuso likes that, although he swaps the butter for cream cheese.
 * Fujitsu likes both.
<StevenK> I've not tried cream cheese and Vegemite on toast.
<TheMuso> Its nic.
<TheMuso> nice.
<TheMuso> I just don't eat butter.
 * Fujitsu wonders if we have scared the non-Australians away yet.
 * StevenK chuckles
<LaserJock> ok, still uploading at 22 min
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What is it?
<StevenK> LaserJock: So, while it's uploading, you can Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies!
<LaserJock> gcompris
<joejaxx> LaserJock: they have a trial one where you do not have to download the entire game
<LaserJock> StevenK: not quite so much, extreme lag
<joejaxx> it streams the map data
<frenchy> LaserJock: have you got time for a question>
<LaserJock> frenchy: perhaps
<frenchy> LaserJock: I know that there's a lot of LP stuff going on today?
<StevenK> joejaxx: After you create an account and so on, I'm guessing?
<Fujitsu> frenchy: It's going to be down for 8.5 hours.
<joejaxx> StevenK: yes
<Fujitsu> (translation schema changes, woo)
<frenchy> LaserJock: I'll take that as a "maybe".  I was just interested in what the criteria are to get a package into Gutsy.
<StevenK> Although if it makes translation stuff go super fast, I'm all for LP being down for 8 hours
<frenchy> LaserJock: You declined mine and I was wondering what I need to do next time.
<LaserJock> frenchy: well formed, adhears to policy, has accurate and compatible license information
<LaserJock> frenchy: I declined yours?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I have no interest in Rosetta working properly, other than hopefully increased the signal-to-noise ratio on launchpad-users.
<Fujitsu> s/the //
<frenchy> LaserJock: Well actually you declined the "needs-packaging" for Gutsy ... but I'm not sure what that means https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/128858.
<imbrandon> i just dont see for the life of me why any webservice has to be down for 8 hours for ANY change
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128858 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] me-tv" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Why not?
<frenchy> LaserJock: I've already packaged it and sent it to REVU and have actioned everything so far.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I don't use it.
<LaserJock> frenchy: I declined the Gutsy tast
<LaserJock> frenchy: because you can't get it into Gutsy
<Fujitsu> Nor do I use translations from it.
<StevenK> I like it since it looks good and means you can translate stuff easily
<LaserJock> *task
<joejaxx> imbrandon: server migration? :D :P
<imbrandon> joejaxx: even then
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i know
<joejaxx> i am only kidding
<joejaxx> :)
<imbrandon> joejaxx: we have migrated sits to toaly new hardware and had 200k active connections ( a *.microsoft.com site ) with -0- downtime, i'm SURE LP could do the same if planned properly
<frenchy> LaserJock: I know I can't get it into gutsy now ... I would really, really like to see it in Hardy ... but want to make sure that when it comes time I'm ready.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: The Rosetta DB is absolutely massive.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: sure
<Fujitsu> And they need huge schema changes.
<frenchy> LaserJock: I humbly ask for your guidance.
<Fujitsu> Though why they designed it so that they couldn't just take Rosetta down, I'm really not sure.
<Fujitsu> Taking down every service the distro uses is a bad idea.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: and? i'm thinking more why they dident design it to have a second copy to drop into production and cycle the hardware
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: They could do that, but the database is writable!
<frenchy> LaserJock: If you've got the time.
<Fujitsu> They could clone the staging DB over, but it would overwrite any changes that were made in the intervening 8 hour migration time.;
<StevenK> imbrandon: At which point you have keep syncing the two copies
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: sure but locking it and ,making the change is what 5 minutes
<imbrandon> StevenK: sure, modern db's have done that for years
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: What about the changes in the original since you made the copy?
<LaserJock> I was told that what is taking a long time is several hundred million row transfers betwen DB tables
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Right, Rosetta, and lots of.
<Fujitsu> It's not small.
<Fujitsu> I can accept that it will take an eternity, but not that it has to take the rest of LP with it.
<StevenK> I suspect they are moving tables, and may have to munge the data on the way past.
<LaserJock> wahooo! upload done
<imbrandon> i dont think either is acceptable imho, it can be avoided altogather
<LaserJock> and it only too half an hour
<StevenK> Fujitsu: But they use the same database ...
<frenchy> LaserJock: Maybe another time would be better.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Right, I heard there were gigantic shifts in the data model.
 * TheMuso has just knocked two sponsor requests off the queue.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Right, that's a design flaw.
<Fujitsu> OR at least they shouldn't have to lock the rest of the world.
<LaserJock> frenchy: well, I don't have time right now for a full review. I was just cleaning the Gutsy tasks because they don't make any sense
<LaserJock> frenchy: what I did in no way means you can't get the packages into Hardy
<StevenK> I'm unsure if you can block writes to certain tables - or if the web frontend gratefully accepts database failures
<StevenK> Come on scribus, build quicker
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> Err, gracefully, as opposed to gratefully. :-)
<LaserJock> I would think they could have done a lot of it not on the production DB, slip in the new one and just have downtime to deal with the diff
 * TheMuso decides to ignore kmos' sponsor request for now...
<LaserJock> or something similar
<Fujitsu> StevenK: It should have been designed sanely such that they could disable Rosetta on production, take a copy of the DB, migrate it on another host (so as not to kill performance), and replace just the Rosetta tables.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, something like that
<imbrandon> exactly
<LaserJock> in fact
<Fujitsu> Their goal is to eventually rule $world, and taking down $world for 8 hours is ridiculous.
<LaserJock> we should *at least* get a read-only copy
<frenchy> LaserJock:  Thanks, I'll continue down my path of uploading to REVU for comments.  Thanks, you've answered the question, essentially.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: staging.
<Fujitsu> Although that's up to 24 hours out of date.
<LaserJock> *and* it shouldn't kill authentication for wiki and stuff like that
<LaserJock> seems like, in fact, that they should have separate DBs for different areas
<LaserJock> so they could leave Malone, etc. up while doing the Rosetta change
<LaserJock> but I'm not a DB engineer or anything
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: They're moving to SSO soon, which should mean that it will kill auth on the other LP instances too, if production is down.
<imbrandon> really there is no excuse for an 8+ hour downtime anyhow, peroid
<imbrandon> even if its everythgin
<LaserJock> I agree
<Fujitsu> They need to be in the same PostgreSQL database for foreign keys and the like to work.
<StevenK> Yes, exactly
<LaserJock> when you're running a web service it seems like more than a few minutes downtime is unacceptable for most
<Fujitsu> It's better than the old couple of hours of downtime every Tuesday.
<imbrandon> yea anything longer than what it takes to switch a NIC cable is un acceptable
<StevenK> And hanging onto 8 different database handles would suck, make the code more complicated, and then the frontend needs to do heavy lifting, rather than the database.
<imbrandon> hardware is cheap
<Fujitsu> StevenK: There's nothing to stop them adding the ability to switch various components into readonly mode.
<Fujitsu> Or disabling them entirely.
<Fujitsu> Having multiple databases would be silly and complicate things, definitely.
<Fujitsu> At least they don't have to take it down for 8 hours every time they want translations for a new DistroSeries.
<Fujitsu> They fixed that for Gutsy, IIRC.
<LaserJock> ah well
<LaserJock> gives us some "real life" time
<LaserJock> or Ponies time
<Fujitsu> (or some pony time)
<Fujitsu> Damn, beat me.
<StevenK> Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies!
<imbrandon> give me time for debian work and ML rants :)
 * Fujitsu tests his bzflag merge.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You use LaTeX a fair bit, right?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: some yeah
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you going for DM?
<Fujitsu> How do I convince it that I want to unnumber a page?
<LaserJock> ah, one sec
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea and then $sometime DD
<imbrandon> why ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I think I'm gonna
<imbrandon> cool-i-o
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I know how to reset the numbering, I do think I have one where I take out the numbering altogether
<imbrandon> i just had dm-allowed-upload: yes , set on the 3 packages i actively maintain, so not all i need to do is get some DD sigs
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I just want to exclude a specific page (TOC, in this case)
<imbrandon> s/not/now
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: try \thispagestyle{empty}
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Ah, that looks like it might do it.
 * Fujitsu checks.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That doesn't actually exclude it from the numbering, unfortuantely. It just hides the number.
<LaserJock> then you can reset the count or set it differently by:
<Fujitsu> That's a good point.
<LaserJock> \setcounter{page}{1}
<LaserJock> and instead of 1 set it to whatever you want
<Fujitsu> Ah, thanks.
<LaserJock> that's what I've got anyway
 * Fujitsu wonders who the new Coalition leader will be, with the leader and deputy having resigned in the past 14 hours.
<LaserJock> ok, I need a recomendation for how to get a Broadcom BCM4306 going
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Did Costello resign?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That works. Thanks.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: 20 or so minutes ago, yeah.
<TheMuso> From the front bench only?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: is that the elections over there?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: From politics.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: We had the federal election last night, right.
<Fujitsu> And the opposition won.
<LaserJock> I saw that Howard lost, but that's about as much as I know about Australian politics
<Fujitsu> By a looong way.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Is benelong still in doubt?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Will be for quite some time.
<somerville32> bddebian, :D
<imbrandon> ok forgive my ignorance but i thought AU was still under brittish rule/monarch , federal election?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah I thought as much.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi somerville32
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: The British monarch is still in a position of power, though we're very, very largely independent.
<Fujitsu> We have a prime minister, much like the UK does.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: ahh ok, just confusion on my part then
<LaserJock> huh, I thought AU was fully independent
<LaserJock> is Canada still a little tied?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: no , and neither is canada either
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: We're not a republic yet.
 * TheMuso hopes that the new government throws thta up on the agenda again.
<Fujitsu> Our top ruler is still the British monarch.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Mhm.
<TheMuso> that
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: can the Queen actually do anything?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hasn't done anything for a long time, but in principle she could.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i think its kinda like brittan where she "can" but hasent in many years
<Fujitsu> The monarch is represented by the attorney general, who.. doesn't really od much.
<Fujitsu> *do
<Fujitsu> Other than expel a government or two.
<LaserJock> ah, interesting
 * imbrandon wishes Di would have been the next queen, i always had a crush on her as a kid , shhhhhh
<LaserJock> oh my gosh
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: s/attorney/governor/
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Oops, I'm an idiot.
<somerville32> The reserve powers of the crown are IMMENSE!
<somerville32> Thats what my Poli Sci teacher would scream at us :/
<LaserJock> so they have power but basically don't excercise it by tradition?
<somerville32> Pretty much
<somerville32> Though they have on occasion
<somerville32> ie. King-Bing crisis
<Fujitsu> The only significant thing I know of the Governor-General doing here dismissing Gough Whitlam, the prime minister at that time.
<Fujitsu> Gahh, I can't type.
<somerville32> I love when the Governor-General tells the government how it is :P
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: hrm rember when you said it was done nightly ? have a peek at https://edge.launchpad.net/~imbrandon/+archive before it goes down
<imbrandon> seems an error to me
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: That is odd. See what happens after 1.1.11.
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> hopefully edge will have the UI to delete by thern
<imbrandon> then*
<imbrandon> heh talking to the same people in 2 or 3 diffrent channels seems "weird" at times , but keeps things on topic i guess ;)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: As I'm sure you've noticed, there's a lot of documentation on all this stuff.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea tons
<imbrandon> hell i dident know you could overide the changelog $dist by uploading to ~<name>/ubuntu/$dist
<imbrandon> untill last night
<imbrandon> so now i have [ppa-$dist] targets in dput.cf :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I should work on the wiki in my spare time
<LaserJock> I told them they need somebody to work on PPA support/documentation
<imbrandon> i bet they said "why not you LaserJock?"
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> in 6 months or so I'll be available ;-)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: That's bug #137649
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137649 in soyuz "Document suite-override feature in PPA" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137649
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea but i dont normaly trall bugs or LP unless soemthing i'm using/workign on is broke :)
<imbrandon> infact i found it from a google ( search.ubuntuwire.com ) search that brought up a log of siretart explainging it to someone else
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<LaserJock> yes
<imbrandon> in an irc log
<LaserJock> it seems like right now there's a bit of a gap there
<LaserJock> mrevell doesn't really know a lot about the packaging end, etc.
<LaserJock> and I don't think cprov likes documentation
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> right now they're like "help us MOTU!!"
<LaserJock> ;-)
<imbrandon> speaking of, anyone else tried / use the firefox 2 / IE 7 plugin i made for search.ubuntuwire.com ? i got -0- feedback on it :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: is it on serch.uw.c?
<LaserJock> *search
<imbrandon> yea, just below the search box
<imbrandon> there is a link
<somerville32> imbrandon, Maybe because it just works? :P
<imbrandon> somerville32: possibly but i was just wanting to make sure :)
<somerville32> I know I installed it
<imbrandon> eventualy , maybe durring the LP downtime , i will add a FF 1.5 plugin too but for now it only works in FF2 or IE7
<imbrandon> and a javascript to detect browser etc etc etc
<LaserJock> imbrandon: nifty I like it
<imbrandon> tis just an xml file , but kinda nice
<imbrandon> well xml + binary icon blob
<imbrandon> but still
<LaserJock> you should put some google adsense on the side and get us some money for a nice machine :-)
<somerville32> lol
<imbrandon> there is google adsense ( at the top of certain results , try "wifi" ) but the money goes to google for letting people use the CSE, you can pay $100 a year to remove the ad's or be a non-profit
<imbrandon> neither of which ubuntuwire is :)(
<imbrandon> although someday i guess uw might need to file for non-profit status etc liek debian SPI(?) so we can take $$ donations easier
<imbrandon> honestly i'm not sure whats involved nor if it would be worth it ( espicialy at this stage of uw )
<somerville32> You hire a lawyer to file papers for you
<somerville32> And than you have to prove you're non-profit every year
<imbrandon> hehe yea, thats why as of today i dont accept any $$ / cash , only hardware , and even then its "iffy" i guess i should put that higher on the list of things to look into
<somerville32> You can still accept donations
<somerville32> It isn't like they're giving you big bucks
<imbrandon> i hate business though, i like sticking to sysadmin and webapps :) maybe we can get someone else on the team that likes that kinda thing
<imbrandon> somerville32: true, but i still dont just so there is no question about it atm
<somerville32> I didn't know it was against the law for people to give you stuff :P
<somerville32> They just can't mark it as a donation to a NPO
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> oh its not
<imbrandon> well not afaik
<imbrandon> and dunno if its good or bad but people havent been throwing $$ anyhow so i havent had to think about it much :)
<somerville32> Once I make MOTU, I'll donate
<somerville32> Wait, that sounds like blackmailing lol
<imbrandon> but i would still feel better if it was an org taking the $$ / hardware and not a personal member of the team, not that i would turn anything own really
<imbrandon> plus companies like HP etc like giving to a org not a person :)
<somerville32> <g>
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Hah, so it does.
<imbrandon> although some new HP bladecenters would rock :)
<imbrandon> hahaha
<somerville32> It has been almost 3 years since I first started playing with Ubuntu. 1 year since I got involved with contributing. It feels like just yesterday :)
<imbrandon> yea i started with ubuntu semi close to 3 years ago, i would have to lookup the specific date, sometime just before breezy
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Breezy was released slightly over 2 years ago.
<imbrandon> ok somewhere arround there then :)
 * Fujitsu arrived about half-way between Warty and Hoary.
<somerville32> I didn't start contributing until Sept 06
<somerville32> Just around the time Jono was hired
<somerville32> I go from Joe Blow users to having phone conferences with Canonical staff - It feels really feed.
<somerville32> s/feed/weird
<imbrandon> heh
<somerville32> Not so much just an online project - Ubuntu is getting pretty mainstream
<Fujitsu> Phone conferences with Canonical staff? Nice.
<imbrandon> has been on one or two phone calls with canonical, been a while though :) they must not like me anymore :)
<somerville32> lol
 * Fujitsu is just a mortal
 * TheMuso has used ubuntu since warty preview
<somerville32> I was around when it was ubuntulinux.org
<imbrandon> heh i hate that domain
<lifeless> noname.com :)
<somerville32> lol
<imbrandon> lifeless!
<Fujitsu> lifeless: no-name-yet.com, you mean?
<Fujitsu> Or was noname.com earlier?
<lifeless> Fujitsu: bleh, my memory is crap on detail is all
 * lifeless goes for lunch
<Nafallo> ubuntulinux.org was around for quite a while though :-)
 * somerville32 gets ready for bed.
<imbrandon> brb gotta get some dew and smokes from the store
 * Fujitsu criticises imbrandon's sleep schedule.
<Fujitsu> Yay, no LP in 3 minutes
 * somerville32 fears.
 * Fujitsu watches the world stop for 8 damn hours.
<somerville32> 8 hours is too long : (
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Correct.
<somerville32> Why do they need 8 hours?
<somerville32> Give the monkeys a break?
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Because they're too integrated and the Rosseta tables are so unbelievably massive it's not conceivable.
<Fujitsu> *Rosetta
<somerville32> I'm now a no one since I can't authenticate, :P
<Fujitsu> The world has stopped.
<LaserJock> at least the rest of the web universe doesn't authenticate against LP :-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yet...
<LaserJock> what if you had LP as your openid
<Fujitsu> That's coming soon.
<LaserJock> you'd be screwed
<Fujitsu> (really RSN, not LP RSN)
<minghua> Fujitsu: Get away from the computer, go out and have fun. :-)
<LaserJock> if you that was the only server you had
<Fujitsu> minghua: Hah. Fun.
<LaserJock> at least I got gcompris off
<Fujitsu> Ah, that beats.
<Fujitsu> *beast
<LaserJock> now I gotta make sure I can make a Gutsy .pot
<LaserJock> it feels so hackish
 * imbrandon returns
<imbrandon> man its like 30 outside, brrrr
<imbrandon> 30F
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm over in Sacramento, a bit warmer
<imbrandon> cool hehe, yea i'm ready for warm again in KC
<imbrandon> whats in sac ?
<LaserJock> my grandpa's house
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> we went over there for Turkey Day
<imbrandon> mmm an LP openid, i bet someone is working on that
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It's almost there.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I thought it was for authenticating via openid
<imbrandon> they are putting an openid server up?
<LaserJock> not necessarily providing openid servers
<imbrandon> sides Fujitsu how you get all this info? you working for canonical in secret now ? heheh
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I think it was going to be a server rather than consumer.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, the bugs I saw seemed more like being able to auth via an openid
<Fujitsu> Hm, perhaps.
 * Fujitsu checks staging.
<somerville32> I hope they do something like that
<LaserJock> but it would make sense to have a server for maybe other Ubuntu areas, like forums
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: SSO is also coming soon.
<somerville32> Than I'd have my servers authenticate against LP for my projects I host on there
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: right
<LaserJock> imbrandon: Fujitsu spends a lot of time looking at LP bugs and talking to people methinks
<imbrandon> somerville32: yea like we try to do with UW
<imbrandon> :)
<somerville32> :)
<Fujitsu> Those specs seem to have evaporated from the milestone lists, at least.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I know most of what I do because I get all LP bugs
<Fujitsu> malone-me-too has been deferred again (this time to 1.2.3)...
<LaserJock> yeah
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I'd like to get them, but I suppose that's verboten.
<somerville32> What is _that_?
<LaserJock> they must be getting ready for 1.2 soon
<somerville32> malone-me-too reminds me of tickle-me-elmo
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> I haven't seen the milestone dates for a while
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: 1.2 is like 1.1, but for 2008...
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Haha.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: another 8 hours downtime ? wtf
<Fujitsu> Oh joy, private blueprints coming in 1.2.5...
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ahh, that's what they're doing
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: as long as they come with a public LP wiki ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hah. Like that's ever going to happen.
<somerville32> I think wikis for projects would be awesome
<Fujitsu> Oooh, a whole lot of api-* specs.
 * Fujitsu looks.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I know, I know, some people really want it though
<Fujitsu> Oh, targetted to 2.0. A couple of years.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, they are starting working on API stuff
<imbrandon> lp development seem so slow
<somerville32> LP is still up?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Fiiinaly.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: No.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: I'm using staging to view.
<jono> hey all
<somerville32> Hey Jono
<jono> heya som
<jono> heya somerville32
<jono> :)
<imbrandon> ello jono
<jono> hey imbrandon
<somerville32> jono, Only 3hrs of sleep?
 * jono can't sleep :(
<jono> damn flu
<imbrandon> zomg, MPAA is using xubuntu as a base for their "anti P2P" tools, as in already done, not vaporware
 * somerville32 nods.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ?
<imbrandon> http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2007/11/mpaa_university_toolkit_opens_1.html?nav=rss_blog
<somerville32> hehe
<somerville32> I love the comments
<imbrandon> LaserJock: look at the screenshots of it booting, xubuntu usplash
<LaserJock> jono: might as well go back to sleep, LP is down forever :-)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I saw that. how evil.
<jono> ahhh yes, the downtime
<somerville32> ~"It says on the get Xubuntu page that they don't have shipit because of lack of funding. Maybe the MPAA will donate money to send Xubuntu to people who need it"~
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> jono: our world has collapsed for the next 8hrs ;-)
<jono> LaserJock: I am sure we survive :) just make sure you stock up on bread and milk :)
<imbrandon> yea i'm kinda pissy about that having worked for some large web firms , 8 hours of downtime if ludicris
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Particularly given the number of projects that LP is meant to support.
<somerville32> Don't forget the cookies.
<jono> imbrandon: unavoidable it seems
<Fujitsu> If I were to break the work web app for more than half an hour, I would be murdered.
<jono> I think you should all forward your concerns to the LP team :)
<jono> let them know
<imbrandon> jono: well unavoidable with the current implmentation, its totaly avoidable, in previous lives i have migrated *.microsoft.com sites to whole new platforms and db backends etc in less than 30 minutes downtime
<jono> 8 hours is indeed a *long* time
<imbrandon> with 200k active connections
 * jono blows his nose
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> anybody know carlos' email address? I can't get it off of LP
 * imbrandon stops bitching on irc, atleaste if i'm gonna bitch i might as well make it usefull , e.g. to the correct people :)
<jono> imbrandon: my thoughts precisely
<jono> I am not the right person unfortunately
<jono> (although fortunately for me)  :)
<somerville32> hehe
<imbrandon> hehe yea, LaserJock tried staging.lp ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah
<imbrandon> carlos who?
<LaserJock> it won't open up the portlet for me
<somerville32> Does staging redirect you to edge too?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Perello Marin.
<imbrandon> google cache might have it
<Fujitsu> somerville32: No.
<LaserJock> the translations guy
<imbrandon> LaserJock: Packages overview for Carlos PerellÃ³ MarÃ­n <carlos@pemas.net>
<imbrandon> that it?
<desertc> Launchpad is down?
<desertc> "Do not want!"
<imbrandon> desertc: yea for 8 hours, scheduled
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I found his @canonical.com from an old email
<imbrandon> ahh ok, i gleend that from debian
<Fujitsu> I can has LP?
<somerville32> Is there usually no chanserv in here?
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Hm, I thought there was.
<imbrandon> somerville32: not normaly on any channels iirc
<imbrandon> ( on freenode )
<Fujitsu> I think you have to set the flag manually.
<imbrandon> but you can use it , e.g. /msg chanserv <cmd> #ubutnu-motu , etc
<desertc> persia: ping
<desertc> persia: The UQM package installation in Gutsy works great with the addon modules.  Thanks for your work on that - got that one down perfect.
<imbrandon> ok dumb question, but what is the astrisk by the apt-mirror package on http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=brandon@imbrandon.com mean ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Possibly means it has a comaintainer.
<imbrandon> ahh right, one was just added , ok
<Fujitsu> What benefits does apt-mirror hold over debmirror, other than the Gutsy version not eating mirrors?
<imbrandon> honestly i have never looked, will debmirror let you mirror other arches ?
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, where can i find a copy of the diff.gz for libvisual-plugins -2 ? the mirrors haven't synced yet.
<Fujitsu> It will.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: if you click on the Help at the top of that page it tells you all that
<Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Check LP.
<Fujitsu> Hm, I wonder if librarian is alive.
<DarkMageZ> i'm talking about debian.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: probably not
<Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Check incoming.debian.org
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: i can upload a copy to my people.uw.com site, but it should be a streight sync, i incorperated all ubuntu changes + some more
 * jono feels tired
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/libv/libvisual-plugins/ has it
<DarkMageZ> yay
<minghua> Yeah, just find a first-tier mirror.
<LaserJock> alrighty, gcompris done
<imbrandon> but as i said, as soon as LP is up i was gonna request a sync, all ubuntu changes should be in place
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: ^^
<somerville32> LaserJock, I confirmed that bug was fixed. Did you see that?
<somerville32> LaserJock, (The one you asked me to check)
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: dosent look like all arches have built it yet, but the main ones have
<imbrandon> and before i uploaded to debian i checked that it would build in hardy ( same with libvisual )
<LaserJock> somerville32: yeah, the one about the Xfce4 panel?
<somerville32> aye
<LaserJock> yeah, thanks for that
<mdomsch> what's the package that maintains the pool hierarchy?  like apt-ftparchive, but presumably not.
<Fujitsu> mdomsch: For Debian, it's dak. For Ubuntu... it's apt-ftparchive, run by Soyuz.
<imbrandon> mdomsch: yea depends on the dist, and lots of indivuals use falcon ( wont scale to large distros though afaik )
<mdomsch> oh, interesting - so apt-ftparchive can be used to manage the tree as a pool
<imbrandon> s/falcon/falcon2
<mdomsch> I'm going to have a ton of arch independent, distro independent (debian/ubuntu), and distro version independent packages
<imbrandon> docs? images? hehe
<mdomsch> which are simple packages with just a couple files - system BIOS images
<mdomsch> which right now I copy into a tree and hardlink the whole tree
<imbrandon> mdomsch: i would look into falcon, it scales well if there is only one uploader
<mdomsch> imbrandon, will do, thanks
<imbrandon> mdomsch: http://mirror2.ubuntulinux.nl/dists/feisty-seveas/all/   ( first package )
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, you might be interested in checking out LP #159691. once launchpad comes back online.
<LaserJock> hmm, I suppose I should put PPA 101 on my calendar
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: i'll try to peek at staging , whats it about ?
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, it's a visualization addition patch for libvisual-plugins.
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<DarkMageZ> contains visualizations that Accidentally didn't make it into the official release
<imbrandon> hrm not the g-force one right ?
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, not g-force. that was stripped out by debian.
<imbrandon> right, ahh cool
<imbrandon> i'm preparing -3 for upload now ( misc lintian and linda fixes ) think you could re-debdiff against -2 ?
<imbrandon> it will give me something to do while LP is down
<imbrandon> yea that 90_reconf was a monster
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, i'm sorry about 90_reconf... someone else touched that in a bad way.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvisual-plugins/+bug/159691
<imbrandon> err
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, the correctly messed up version of 90_reconf is 653.1KB
<minghua> What is the difference between staging.LP and edge.LP?
<imbrandon> yea i just cant grab the debdiff right now because libraryian seems to be down too
 * somerville32 breaks out the rootbeer.
<imbrandon> minghua: staging is a snapshot of the old db ( 24 hours ago ), edge is the newer UI working with live data
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: if you can post that debdiff elsewhere i'll start working on getting it in now
<minghua> imbrandon: What is the purpose of staging then?
<somerville32> minghua, To play around :P
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, i'm working on decreasing the size of it dramatically. i'm splitting xmms-goom into multiple different packages so i can build against it
<imbrandon> minghua: so you can totaly fubar data etc and have no problems
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: that wont help me in debian atm though :)
<imbrandon> the old way would be better for debian untill its split there also
<minghua> Well, I would think just doing backups of the db data is enough.  But I'm not going to complain.
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/debdiff.tar.gz i thinks
<somerville32> Are there actual people working on Launchpad for the next 8 hours or is it automatic?
<imbrandon> hrm i get a server not found
<imbrandon> somerville32: actual people afaik
 * somerville32 was about to ask who would work at this hour but then stops himself.
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, appears to be working here. maybe dns issue
<imbrandon> yea i'm using open dns
<imbrandon> imbrandon@hood:~/files/devel/packages/libvisual-plugins$ wget http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/debdiff.tar.gz
<imbrandon> --22:19:50--  http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/debdiff.tar.gz => `debdiff.tar.gz'
<imbrandon> Resolving mirror.randumb.org... 69.42.222.102
<imbrandon> Connecting to mirror.randumb.org|69.42.222.102|:80...
<imbrandon> seems to hang there
<RAOF> imbrandon: You were after me last night?
<imbrandon> RAOF: yea i have no idea why though, short memory
<RAOF> Heh
<LaserJock> bazaar.launchpad.net seems to still work
<somerville32> Why wouldn't it?
<LaserJock> cause everything else is down
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: i grabed it from another connection, something about my comcast was sucking
<LaserJock> I can't upload, can authenticate, etc.
<somerville32> LaserJock, But bazaar is just transferring files
<somerville32> Oh right
<somerville32> Can you push?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> but I can pull
<somerville32> Well, it doesn't authenticate to pull
<somerville32> I don't think
<somerville32> Unless you use the bzr+sftp handle
<LaserJock> well sure, I'm just suprised anything with .launchpad.net works ;-)
<somerville32> lol
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: i dont seem to see a copyright in any of those new groom files
<imbrandon> where did you get them from
<DarkMageZ> same licence as libvisual. taken from libvisual cvs tag 0.4.0 branch.
<imbrandon> k
<persia> desertc: you're imagining things: it uses uio_MOUNT_TOP instead of uio_MOUNT_ABOVE, so per-user mods are broken: will be fixed in hardy
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: 244K    libvisual-plugins_0.4.0.dfsg.1-3.diff.gz
<persia> \sh: I was only counting packages that depend on libao and didn't also depend on something else useful (e.g. libasound)
<imbrandon> with yours and my changes applied
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, ah sweet.
<imbrandon> i got a few other minor things to do then i'll get someone to upload it , man i really need to go though NM :)
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, i've also split xmms-goom into the library & -dev & xmms-goom. maybe if this was pushed into debian then i could cull back the size of that diff.gz even further
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: is it already like that in the ubuntu archive or you dont have it uploaded yet?
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, not uploaded yet.
<imbrandon> yea i would sugest contacting the xmms dev and getting it pushed to debian, less merges
<imbrandon> err xmms-goom maint, not xmms dev
<LucidFox> How do I make pbuilder build packages depending on Sun's Java?
<LucidFox> it says "sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented"
<LaserJock> not sure
<imbrandon> iirc there isnt really a way, thats what jdong ran into with azureus
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I borrowed the debconf from sun's packages once
<LaserJock> and the point is that it won't proceed unless the license is agreed to
<imbrandon> hrm could that be our anwser to adding things to multiverse? e.g. require a debconf like sun-java , effectively making it "click thorugh" as persia sugests ?
<imbrandon> "this package might not be legal in your country , please check before installing ......" etc
<LaserJock> well, that would make it hard for packages that build on other multiverse packages
<LaserJock> but yeah
<imbrandon> hrm true
<imbrandon> maybe ...... hrm
<LaserJock> if we had a multiverse mplayer for instance
<imbrandon> well what about using the -phigh -plow etc to show it when installing but not when building against it
<LucidFox> so, what should I do if I want to test-build a package from Debian build-depending on sun-java6-sdk?
<imbrandon> LucidFox: good question :)
<LucidFox> and most importantly, will the build servers be able to build it after syncing?
<minghua> Test-build should be easy, you can always install the build-depends manually.
<imbrandon> no
<LaserJock> LucidFox: I doubt it
<LaserJock> LucidFox: could you use IcedTea perhaps?
<imbrandon> hrm i might draft a letter to -devel about this LaserJock , i think it might be a bit of work but a win win if we can use the priority correctly
<imbrandon> yea icetea might be the better choice for ubuntu in this instance
<imbrandon> persia: ping , i just had an idea about the multiverse thing i bounced off LaserJock and thought about sending to devel for more disscussion ..... lemme pastbin
 * persia laments having purchased the wrong sort of video hardware
<minghua> Anybody got icedtea working?
 * minghua should try it.
<somerville32> Persia :)
<imbrandon> persia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2204/
<jdong> minghua: amd64 is a trainwreck, i386 icedtea runs pretty decently
<imbrandon> persia: intel ? hehe
<persia> minghua: From the Azureus reports, it does pretty well
<jdong> minghua: definitely more success for me than GCJ stacks
<persia> imbrandon: nVidia: there's a bug, and I know exactly where it is, and I can't fix it.
<imbrandon> heh, ok what do you think about that pastebin comment
<minghua> Hmm, good.  Can I try in gutsy?  Or only the one in hardy works?
<jdong> minghua: gutsy one works fine
<minghua> jdong: Thanks.
<jdong> sure thing
<jdong> now, this sleep thing for airport day tomorrow
<persia> imbrandon: I don't like click-through.  I'm in favor of pure wrappers or actual source, but even click-through would be better than what we have now.
<jdong> but first a bit more gtkpod hacking with this shiny iPod Touch :)
<jcastro> hey jdong, congrats on motu
<jdong> jcastro: thanks!
<jcastro> jdong: you're from my area in -mi aren't you?
<jdong> jcastro: indeed :)
<jcastro> jdong: you coming home for xmas?
<imbrandon> persia: yea i'm more talking about still allowing the stuff we have and the sources.list we have but making it "better"
<persia> However, as was pointed out: check with the buildd admins: until we have a sensible way to handle bootstrapping multiverse build-depends, we do better with binary blobs (as much as I dislike them)
<jcastro> you're at mit iirc
<jdong> jcastro: yeah most likely
<jcastro> jdong: let me know, we should have an ubuntu-mi get together
<jcastro> plus we still gotta sign keys
<jcastro> it's been on my todo since like, you started backports
<imbrandon> jcastro: when are you bringing your rear to the midwest ?
<persia> imbrandon: Erm.  I'm not sure click-through is better.  People don't read those.  I'd prefer disabled by default.
<jcastro> imbrandon: midwest is over here dude, not where you live. :D
<imbrandon> persia: yea but i think this might be a good middle ground
<jcastro> imbrandon: come to penguicon or ohiolinux
<persia> Also the licenses on different packages are different.  Some you cannot use in some places, some you cannot use for some purposes, some you just can't edit the source.
<imbrandon> jcastro: hehe ok "mid" :)
<jcastro> imbrandon: jono is coming to penguicon, and so is dibona and leslie from google. If you make your way over, you can stay at my place
<imbrandon> persia: right , but it could be a requirement to present those restrictinos to be accepted into multiverse
<imbrandon> instead of the choice we have now of all or none
<persia> imbrandon: Ah, you mean do something where we abstract debian/copyright into some user-visible tool?
<somerville32> Night
<imbrandon> jcastro: yea if i could crash with you i would be HIGHLY more likely to be able to make it
<imbrandon> persia: right, via debconf
<jcastro> imbrandon: I live like 2 miles from there, hell yeah dude.
<persia> As I'd prefer to avoid tweaking packages if possible, as I like to sync from Debian, I think the way to do this is to have the package managers pull it for confirmation.
<imbrandon> food + beer + travel isnt that bad, its the hotels that kill me
<imbrandon> ohhh leslie is comming too ? hehe i just talked to her today in email LOL
<persia> Reasoning being that everything in multiverse needs checking, but I don't feel like writing a debconf wrapper for each one, especially when a new release opens.
<imbrandon> persia: hrm very true, one patch to dpkg / apt would be much better than 100's of patches to maintain
<imbrandon> ( assuming debian doesnt take it for non-free too )
<persia> imbrandon: I don't know that it belongs at that low a level.  Maybe just adding a hook like apt-listchanges that does apt-showcopyright iff in multiverse, and making sure there are working frontends for all the GUIs.
<imbrandon> and would have the added bonus of being able to be overidden by the buildd / pbuilder
<persia> Then, we install apt-showmultiversecopyright by default, and we get a win, with minimal variation from Debian.
<persia> imbrandon: Exactly, as the buildd wouldn't have apt-showmultiversecopyright installed.
<imbrandon> sounds good, why dident we think about this the other day hehe
<persia> imbrandon: The key is that today we're talking about everything, and the other day I was in a fever about binary blobs.
<imbrandon> ahh :)
<LaserJock> so I'm not really sure what the proposal is
<LaserJock> persia: dude, we have so many binary blobs
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> sadly I contributed one
<persia> LaserJock: Not that many, surely...
<LaserJock> although I don't understand why it's not in -partner
 * persia agrees with Laserjock
<LaserJock> the one I did desktop-multiplier
<LaserJock> is only in Multiverse because they made a deal with Canonical
<LaserJock> so I would have thought it would go to -partner
<imbrandon> persia: ok i'd like to get this idea to -devel ML, you want to type it up as you are much better expressing ideas cohearently , or would you rather me
<persia> The definitely belongs in -partner
<LaserJock> but I did it for dapper and -commercial wasn't well set up at that time I don't think
<LaserJock> I got it in NEW in dapper-updates ;-)
<LaserJock> what a kludge
<minghua> NEW source in -updates?  Ewww.
<LaserJock> yep
<imbrandon> wow
<persia> imbrandon: I'm a good editor and a decent critic, but a poor originator of ideas.  If you want to put together a draft, I'd be happy to poke it.  Further I think this should be a Spec rather than a ML post, but we're currently without an authentication DB.
<LaserJock> a NEW binary package in an LTS -updates :-)
<LaserJock> *binary blob
<imbrandon> persia: true a spec might be a better place for this, how about i draft it as a spec then we'll send a RFC to the ML when we like it
<persia> That'd just bad: clearly belongs in -commercial (-partner didn't exist for Dapper)
<persia> imbrandon: That sounds ideal.  Put something together, throw it on the wiki when the auth DB is up again, poke me and I'll add some flesh, and we can send an RFC to the ML.
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> helps that i think we have both extreams working on the spec :)
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> That's the point of collaboration :)
<LaserJock> persia: heh, you shoulda seen what happened when I uploaded a new version to gutsy
<LaserJock> it had to go through NEW again :-)
<LaserJock> cause it'd never been in a release pocket
<LaserJock> took me a minute to figure that one out
<imbrandon> so wtf is desktop-multiplier anyhow?
<persia> Oh my.  That's just further evidence that -updates wasn't the right place.
<imbrandon> i woudl think from the name we already have virtual desktops and the compiz cube
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it's a multiseat X
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> Burgundiva's old company made it
<LaserJock> so the package I did was for their trial version
<imbrandon> i was thinking it sounded familiar
<LaserJock> but heah, it gave me enough money to get my passport for UDS-Paris
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> in fact, that reminds me
<LaserJock> they sent me a new version to upload :/
<LaserJock> course I can't upload it tonight
<LaserJock> darn, I need some more Golden Pony ideas
<imbrandon> hrm .... *thinks*
<imbrandon> this is the 3rd one right ?
<LaserJock> yep
 * imbrandon thinks StevenK sould get one for "most quiet induction into Canonical" :)
<imbrandon> wow and i might get one for the most typos `evar' on IRC
<imbrandon> hrm
<LaserJock> heh
<jdong> hehe manipulating these iPod MP4 atoms make me think of 09 F9.....
<imbrandon> heh i think i'm gonna get a touch for myself for xmas
<imbrandon> looks like they have skype almost working
<jdong> imbrandon: I'd totally recommend the unit
<jdong> imbrandon: it's been a joy to use, though I've only had it for 48 hrs
<jdong> the web browser realy surprised me as to how well it works
<RAOF> Skype on a touch?  Sounds cool!
<jdong> and the touch interface works super well too
<imbrandon> well i really need a new computer &/or laptop first , so it might be a "january" xmas :)
<jdong> :)
<jdong> athiest geeks get gadgets day.
<imbrandon> wow its only midnight , hrm
<jdong> aww LP is still down
<Fujitsu> jdong: For a few more hours yet...
<Fujitsu> persia, imbrandon: As far as I know, you can't legally work around the Java EULA, even on buildds...
<persia> Fujitsu: Two different things:
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea this was more an idea "for everything else in multiverse"
<persia> 1) We're just talking about exposing a EULA for everything in multiverse
<persia> 2) Once the EULA is accepted, the same user can keep downloading Sun Java as much as they want: that just requires someone to set up the chroot with the right preseed, and to actually mean it when they set the flags.
<Fujitsu> Or we could just build things with IcedTea.
 * persia prefers IcedTea
<persia> Actually, wasn't IcedTea merging back as "official" openJava reached a release?
<Fujitsu> IcedTea is only temporary, right.
<Fujitsu> Hm, I see that PPA is being released wiht 1.1.11.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: WHat do you mean exactly?
<TheMuso> We already have PPA.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: But you currently have to be in Launchpad Beta Testers.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: only for Beta members
<persia> Don't we currently just have PPA for beta & ~ubuntu-dev?
<TheMuso> Oh
<LaserJock> it was a Public Beta
<Fujitsu> persia: Just beta, as far as I know.
<TheMuso> Does that also mean we can delete packages?
<persia> Fujitsu: No, I have PPA on production.
<LaserJock> we can ask to have packages deleted
<TheMuso> LaserJock: thats not the same
<LaserJock> no, but it's better than "no, not at all"
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Did you convince them to allow ~ubuntu-dev too?
<TheMuso> True.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I actually can't remember
<LaserJock> I thought it was just beta-testers but it's entirely possible that ~ubuntu-dev got it too
<imbrandon> so what time is it supose to be back?
<imbrandon> +5 hours ?
<jcastro> it's like a 5 hour deal
<LaserJock> yeah, it's already been like 3 hrs
<Fujitsu> 0200Z + 8 hours, I think.
<LaserJock> started at 03:00 UTC
<imbrandon> right 9pm local
<calc> http://news.launchpad.net/maintenance
<jcastro> Following further tests, we're going to make the Launchpad 1.1.11
<jcastro> release on Sunday 25th November between 03.00 and 11.00 UTC. Launchpad
<jcastro> will be unavailable during this time.
<calc> 8hr
<jcastro> oops, sorry
<Fujitsu> Oh, right, the last one was at 0200.
<imbrandon> so 5 hours from now, hrm
<jcastro> imbrandon: I think they expect us to do normal things during this time
<LaserJock> jcastro: like???
<jcastro> like, spend time with friends in real life and all this crap
<LaserJock> umm
<imbrandon> jcastro: heh yea i'm working on my website and debian pacakges :)
 * calc thinks they need to stop breaking the database ;)
<LaserJock> I don't have friends in real life
<imbrandon> jcastro: that was all for the last few days
<imbrandon> e.g. thanksgiving
<imbrandon> :)
<jcastro> imbrandon: this is why they made bzr, so that when launchpad is down you can still get work done
<imbrandon> i've had enough of RL for a few :)
<calc> jcastro: though you can't see any bug reports
<imbrandon> jcastro: hahah most of my bzr is LP hosted :)
<jcastro> calc: that way you aren't distracted!
<calc> it also takes the wiki down effectively :-\
<jcastro> imbrandon: local commits, for the win
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you can still pull from LP though
<imbrandon> true
<LaserJock> we just need Malone in bzr ;-)
<imbrandon> i'd rather just hack wordpress :)
<imbrandon> i was suprised to see dak is maintained in bzr today :)
<Fujitsu> Hmm, I do need to do those 42 damn wordpress CVEs at some point.
<imbrandon> 42!!
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it's web software!
<imbrandon> heh yea, i've never really seen the point of packageing webapps, but hey, to each their own
<imbrandon> you know its sad when ubuntu supports my usb wireless dongle better than OSX or Windows; s/sad/great/g
<imbrandon> i guess the forums are still up, we could trall there for bugs :)
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I see the point of packaging webapps, but they are difficult to maintain
<LaserJock> I like just browsing the repos for web apps to install
<persia> I don't see how they are any more difficult to maintain than any other server applications.  Less well written maybe, but...
<LaserJock> well, things like wordpress are so trivial to download
<persia> Maybe, but then the user has to maintain it: centralised maintenance means more hack time for everyone
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> if we're constantly behind though (and webapps seem to release fairly fast in general) our packages are less useful
<persia> Maybe: as with other apps, it's a matter of having a good upstream, stable releases, etc.
<Fujitsu> Webapps have things such as PHP to curse them easily.
<imbrandon> <3 PHP
<imbrandon> http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2002222371121.gif
<LaserJock> heh
<Fujitsu> Hah,.
<imbrandon> that can be soooooo true at times
<LucidFox> could someone test-build a package for me, please?
<LucidFox> http://lucidfox.org/dump/woodstox/
<LucidFox> (not putting on REVU because it's just a modified package from Debian)
<persia> LucidFox: Sure.  What target?  sid?
<LucidFox> hardy
 * persia does both, just in case
<persia> Yeah, sid is broken: no icedtea :(
<StevenK> Ooof. That was fun.
<LaserJock> StevenK: hello
<imbrandon> heya StevenK
 * imbrandon polls for any DD's awake ( besides StevenK lol )
<LucidFox> I would have avoided the dependency on icedtea if I could, but it uses a class not yet in GNU Classpath
<Amaranth> jdong: you got the ipod touch to work?
<Amaranth> jdong: or did you jailbreak it?
<StevenK> Hey
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<LaserJock> StevenK: yep, with the LP downtime I'm making some progress
<LaserJock> it'll be so anticlimatic :(
<persia> LucidFox: Built successfully ... Build needed 00:00:15, 7684k disk space
<LucidFox> thanks!
<StevenK> LaserJock: Just as long as I get a pony :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, I'll have to think about that
<impresive> Ã§Ã¤Ã°Ã Ã±Ã±Ã²Ã¥!
<Fujitsu> That is impressive.
 * siretart senses hilights...
 * persia enjoys the linda Easter Egg for today :)
<superm1> Amaranth, i did
<Amaranth> superm1: you got the iPod Touch to work with linux without jailbreaking it?
<superm1> Amaranth, no not without jailbreaking.
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> that's the catch :P
<superm1> Amaranth, but I've got packages for gutsy to support it after the jailbreak.  libgpod needs a newer version
<superm1> and same with gtkpoda
<superm1> and same with gtkpod needs to be built against
<Amaranth> yeah, i know
<superm1> they're all on a ppa though
<superm1> and a package i pushed to hardy and the PPA for mounting and unmounting it properly
<Amaranth> there is some windows software that lets you use it to store regular files
<superm1> with artwork and stuff
<Amaranth> hoping i can snoop it's traffic to figure things out
<superm1> well i suspect it uses apple's driver for it
<Amaranth> apple doesn't let you put arbitrary files on it
<superm1> but i mean they use apple's driver hooks
<superm1> to manage such actions
<Amaranth> Apple offers such a thing?
<superm1> well i wouldn't say "offer"
<Amaranth> hehe
<superm1> but i'd bet the functionality was available in the driver
<Amaranth> either way, something non-iTunes should be interesting to snoop
<superm1> just not exposed to itunes
<superm1> yeah
<Amaranth> trying to snoop a zune under windows isn't even possible
<Amaranth> been playing with that too :P
<superm1> why don't you want to jailbreak your touch?
<Amaranth> it's jailbroken but that's not an end-user solution
<superm1> yeah
<superm1> Amaranth, do you hang out in #gtkpod or similar?  I bet those folks are in the same boat, maybe want to check what progress they've made
<superm1> before jumping in yourself
<Amaranth> yeah, i'm in there now
<Amaranth> and in #banshee on gimpnet, those seem to be the places to be
<Amaranth> i want to figure something out before popping in and being annoying though :P
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> well i'll join you in #gtkpod, i'll be interested to see what comes of this too.  I can't be of too much help though as i dont have a windows box at all
<Amaranth> Neither do I
<Amaranth> Or an iPod Touch :P
<Amaranth> jtbl does though, he's in the same city as me
<superm1> Amaranth, well i've got one, and i'll be glad to help test anything that comes around
<superm1> just ping me if i dont catch it come around
<Amaranth> alright
<imbrandon> superm1: can you "unjailbreak" it ?
<superm1> imbrandon, i've got a buddy with a mac that can reflash it
<superm1> if need be
<imbrandon> right, i was just wondering if it was like ipod linux where it could be reflashed
<superm1> well the way jailbreaking works, you still use the original firmware
<superm1> it just exploits a tiff vulnerability to let you add stuff to the filesystem
<imbrandon> heh sounds like xbox classic :)
<superm1> yeah
<superm1> the vulnerability is fixed in the newer firmware though, so you need to downgrade (which they let you do still in iTunes)
<superm1> and then exploit, and then upgrade again
<Fujitsu> superm1: Aw, they haven't found a new one yet?
<superm1> not as far as i heard
<superm1> i just got my touch a few days ago, and that's the process I went through
<Fujitsu> What stuff is there available for them now?
<superm1> all the iPhone apps, gameboy adv emulator, nes emulator, openssh, apache, tcl/tk, perl, python, ruby, squid, lots of theme customization
<superm1> a bunch of quick hack games
<imbrandon> i heard that audio recording was almost working thus skype :)
<superm1> well you need skype for arm first
<Fujitsu> Hah, run a proxy in your pocket..
<persia> There are plenty of good SIP clients :)
<superm1> i think running a web server in your pocket is more bragging rights
<Fujitsu> Probably.
<superm1> oh and there is an aim/jabber client, and IRC client too
 * persia has never found a webserver in once pocket to be useful
<Fujitsu> Ah, good.
<imbrandon> well it might be good for interacting with stored data on the ipod , like phpmyadmin or similar
<imbrandon> or serving mp3 via http :)
<persia> imbrandon: Maybe, but it's slow.  Better to use a local admin thing.
<superm1> there are a whole lot of other small apps for doing useful things too, i was pretty surprised when i looked at the repository for it
<imbrandon> persia: hehe true but my dual 75mhz arm ipod nano has a webserver for serving mp3's and a mpd :)
<imbrandon> slow but usefull
<Fujitsu> <3 mpd
<persia> imbrandon: Sure, but do you ever use it for that?  I runa SMB server in my pocket, and find that useful, but http just seems useless.
<imbrandon> heh well considering i do 90% or more of my code in php, web just seems a natuaral gateway to me
 * TheMuso pricks up his ears at the mention of mpd.
<Fujitsu> My only issue with it is that which Joey Hess mentioned earlier: the playlist system.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: What issue is that exactly? I am not aware of that.
<imbrandon> persia: plus docking while out at a friends might not be possible
<imbrandon> but 802.11 + http is
<Fujitsu> It can be fairly limiting at times, compared to other players which can play either randomly from the library, or a playlist.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Ah right.
 * persia just uses SMB, but yes...
<TheMuso> It would be nice if mpd supported playing from the library, without needing a playlist.
<TheMuso> IMO mpd should also break out its input/output support into modules.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Right, that is the main problem.
<Fujitsu> Though the modularity would be good.
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<imbrandon> heh irc on the touch
<TheMuso> Ah yes, just read Planet Debian and saw the blog post re mpd.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Geeky.
<imbrandon> anyone worked out how to change out the flashmemory ?
<Nafallo> a/win 21
<effie_jayx> heh... so much for my bug hunting ... launchpad is offline
<effie_jayx> scheduled... I may add ;)
<nxvl> i have make a fresh install of ubuntu at my desktop and now i need to create my pbuilders, that takes so long...
 * Hobbsee wonders why you didn't just copy the /var/cache/pbuilder folder
<nxvl> Hobbsee: cause i have had debian inhere
<nxvl> Hobbsee: all my pbuilders are at work
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<LucidFox> Hmm, Launchpad is still down.
<geser> edge.launchpad.net still shows that LP is down but launchpad.net show the normal page already
<LucidFox> ah
 * Hobbsee points to the ubuntu-devel ML and such
<geser> Hobbsee: it's past 11 UTC, so LP should come back soon (hopefully)
<effie_jayx> geser,  I am waiting tooo
 * effie_jayx eager to look at bugs
<effie_jayx> launchpad back on...
<proppy> hi
<geser> Hi proppy
<highvoltage> !seen norsetto
<Hobbsee>  /msg seenserv seen norsetto
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen norsetto - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<LucidFox> If I'm modifying a Debian package and it says "Maintainer: Debian Games Team <pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>" and "Uploaders: Vincent Fourmond <fourmond@debian.org>", what should I set XSBC-Original-Maintainer to?
<highvoltage> oh, right. thanks Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> LucidFox: Debian Games Team.
<persia> Mez: The unrar-nonfree bug ended up with a very odd changelog somehow: you might want to look at that :)
<Fujitsu> (with the email address, of course)
<LucidFox> and preserve the uploader field?
<Fujitsu> LucidFox: I believe that is the policy.
<LucidFox> thanks
<persia> LucidFox: Please follow Fujitsu's advice: that is the preferred mangling.  Which package?
<LucidFox> freecol
<persia> LucidFox: Please subscribe me to the bug, and I'll push it to SVN so we can sync soon.
<nxvl> con someone help me with a FTBFS
<persia> nxvl: Which one?
<LucidFox> persia> two Java library dependencies need to be synced first
<persia> LucidFox: Ah.  No rush then :)
<nxvl> http://pastebin.com/m5111ad51
<nxvl> persia: bootcd
<nxvl> in that pastebin is the debian/rules and the output
<nxvl> as i can see the error is while running  "$(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp"
<nxvl> but i can't find how bootcdmk2diskconf is build
<persia> nxvl: bootcdmk2diskconf is built by lines 34-38.
<persia> (of your paste)
<persia> I'd suggest performing a local build in a clean chroot, and looking at the contents of the file: I suspect that either the regexes are funny or that you need to adjust something in bootcdmk2diskconf.src
<nxvl> persia: so, i can run that command and see what happend?
<persia> nxvl: To make sure I get the same state, I usually start a fresh chroot (schroot -c distname and pbuilder --login are typical ways to do this), install the build-deps, and run debuild from the package directory.  This way, all the patches get applied, and all the previous build steps have occurred when the investigation begins.
<nxvl> persia: thnx, i will try with pbuilder --login :D
<Mez> persia, which bug?
<persia> bug: #164962
<persia> Err bug #164962
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164962 in rar "Please sync rar 1:3.7b1-2  (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free )" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164962
<persia> Also, 164963
<Mez> yeah.. they seemed to take a long time to get rhtough
<persia> I wonder if something changed on changelogs.d.o
<\sh> 065ns
<\sh> hmmm...moins
<\sh> strange...why is the num lock of my laptop keyboard always enabled when I log into gnome
<\sh> moins Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya
<\sh> hmmm...time to leave now...christmas market time begun ;) cu later
 * persia adds the patch tag to lots of bugs, hoping someone will test the patches & generate debdiffs for the sponsors queue
<LucidFox> By the way, is there any reason why icedtea is not in Debian yet?
<persia> LucidFox: inertia mostly.
 * persia notes that there seem to be lots of little patches against evms, and that someone could probably close a lot of bugs with a single upload if they wished.
 * persia claims bugmail is overrated, and it's best to check the bug.
<frenchy> Hi persia: When I'm building for gutsy and I've made a change to the source that bumps up the upstream version number ... and ... I want to repackage it ... if I simply update the version in the debian/changelog ... what do I put for the comment?
<frenchy> Thanks in advance.
<persia> :)
<frenchy> persia: Have I missed something?
<persia> frenchy: You'll want to ask your questions generally, as other people may have better answers, or just be more bored :)
<frenchy> Ta.
<persia> My opinion is that you'd want to use * New Upstream Version in your debian/changelog
<frenchy> Anyone please ...
<persia> If there are significant fixes, follow this by a couple indented lines starting with '-': this is especially important when closing LP bugs.
<frenchy> persia: Ok so you're saying that it does seem like an Escher puzzle to you also.
<james_w> although you may want to explain why a new upstream version is necessary if this isn't just a local package or backport or similar.
<frenchy> persia: Yep ... down with the Closes: # ...
<persia> james_w: It's an Ubuntu local package.
<persia> Lastly, if there are packaging changes to go along with the upstream changes, note these separately in the changelog.
<frenchy> persia: Sure ... but because I'm this developer/upstream/maintainer beast ... I fixed all the issues already ... :) ... but I bet you already saw that this is my issue.
<frenchy> i.e. I competely understand you last.
<frenchy> s/you/your/
<Amaranth> It's no fun being the upstream and the packager
<Amaranth> You fix things upstream then have to fix them in patch form in the package instead of just giving people the new upstream
<frenchy> Hi Amaranth: I just figured it was the common thing.
<Ubulette> hi, let's see if revu likes me better today...
<persia> Amaranth: Why can't you just pass the new upstream for a while (at least until FeatureFreeze)?
<persia> Ubulette: It ought, although it may have become confused because of the extended LP outage.
<Amaranth> persia: Sure but I'm talking about after UVF
<Ubulette> could I push the exact same thing that got rejected yesterday ?
<persia> Ah..  I forgot.  I'm late!
<Amaranth> persia: or after release
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | http://www.ubuntuwire.com is back! | It's REVU Day!  Packagers; announce your packages, Reviewers: Add as many hammers as you can.
<frenchy> Amaranth: I figured no one else was going to do it.  It's fun learning how it all hangs together.
<persia> Amaranth: Right.  Makes sense.
<Hobbsee> Ubulette: what got rejected?
<Hobbsee> (and why?)
<Ubulette> my 1st revu push
<Hobbsee> ...
<Ubulette> probably my gpg key not sync yet
<Hobbsee> and the upload name?
<Ubulette> dput revu prism_0.8+svn20071115r8030-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<Ubulette> done
 * persia notes that the rejection was ~24 hours back
<Ubulette> I've just resent the exact same files
<Hobbsee> Ubulette: it still wont help you - the keysync isnt automatic
<Ubulette> eh? in the wiki, it says it is
 * Hobbsee resyncs the keyring
<Hobbsee> it changed.  it doesnt appear to be now
<persia> Ubulette: It is sometimes automatic.  Just now it's between automated states.
<Ubulette> hmm
<Hobbsee> persia: i couldn't find it in the cron stuff, when i last checked.
<Hobbsee> persia: afaik, sparky never had it automated
<Hobbsee> because it was taking ages
<persia> Hobbsee: it's not automatic now.  Maybe soon again: there was some lpusers hacking happening earlier.
<Ubulette> then you need to update the wiki page.
<Hobbsee> or you could
 * Hobbsee is studying for an exam tomorrow
<Ubulette> "Next, ask the REVU admins in #ubuntu-motu to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring, which grants you upload rights to REVU. If you don't get a reply within 24 hours, the keyring is resynced nightly via cron, so you will be able to upload after this happens"
<Hobbsee> well, drop the second sentence.  you're there now, after all.
<persia> Ubulette: That's still correct, and if it weren't for my bad memory, it would have worked for you yesterday.
<joejaxx> do you have to be on hte motu-mentoring-reception csv?
<joejaxx> the*
<persia> joejaxx: For what?
<joejaxx> for going through through the process
<joejaxx> i have been doing motu hopeful stuff since feisty
<joejaxx> but really have not enntered a process
<joejaxx> entered*
<joejaxx> it has been more of a "oh fix this" thing :P
<Ubulette> Hobbsee, is the resync over ?
<persia> Ubulette: It takes 20-40 minutes.
<Hobbsee> Ubulette: no.
<Ubulette> lol, ok
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: you do not need to be.  some people find it helfpul
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: you'll do better if you have a drive of wanting to see things fixed, and being determined to do it.  and being able to read documentation like how to get sponsorship
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: and being able to ask decent questions (with enough info in them) in here
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: sure :) i already do that though
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: then you'r efine :)
<joejaxx> but it seems like if i do not get into some process i will still be in the same state come hardy + 2
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: nah, not really.
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: come to think of it, i've not sponsored your stuff in a while though
<joejaxx> yeah there are really only two people that do
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: have you asked them if they think you're ready for motu?
<persia> joejaxx: The mentoring process will soon have 2 stages: the first being an introduction (which you don't need), and the second being final planning (which you don't need yet).  You'd do better just to push things in.
<persia> joejaxx: Do you need some work to do?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: i do not think i am lol
<joejaxx> they only things i have been doing is merges and fixing spellng errors in pacages
<joejaxx> oh and two new uploads
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: how's fluxbuntu going?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: it is going ok
<RainCT> hi
<joejaxx> hi
<RainCT> where can I read about get-orig-source?
<persia> RainCT: Hi.
<joejaxx> s/pacages/packages/g
<persia> RainCT: Best source of information is Debian policy & the Common Mistakes: changing the original tarball section of the packaging guide
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you need more sleep
 * Hobbsee fixes REVU properly
<persia> joejaxx: Would you like to try your hand at patch review?  We get lots of patches from users that need to be tested and wrapped in debdiffs.
<joejaxx> persia: ok
<Hobbsee> Ubulette: keysync finished, and upload processed
<LucidFox> What is the correct version to obtain the upstream version number in debian/rules?
<Ubulette> Hobbsee, thx. done
<LucidFox> Debian uses: SOURCE_VERSION = $(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | egrep '^Version' | egrep -o '[0-9][^-]+')
<persia> joejaxx: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=patch has a list of about 100 submitted patches to select from
<joejaxx> ok
<persia> LucidFox: There's lots of different ways.  That one works.
<persia> LucidFox: I tend to use `head -1 debian/changelog | sed s/.*\(.*\)/*/\1/`, but that's not better.
<joejaxx> has anyone noticed someone spamming bug reports?
 * persia has
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: who's spamming?
<joejaxx> a mirceade on lp
<Hobbsee> reported it to #launchpad yet?
<joejaxx> well it happened on the 20th but he is putting the same post on each bug
<Ubulette> ahh   http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=prism
<joejaxx> for example
<joejaxx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/51991/comments/71
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 51991 in xorg "Xorg process freezes, uses 100% of CPU. Can be killed by remote terminal." [Critical,Confirmed]
<joejaxx> oh fun i should do the openoffice patches :P
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: reported, hopefully kiko will see it
 * Hobbsee notes that what she was about to say is probably in poor taste
<persia> That's less bad than mine (which I wouldn't be able to find again easily).  Mine was advertising someone's private CDs on an unrelated bug report.
<zejosh> Hi, i'm attempting to download NVU, but I cannot find it in my reposotories, or the library files needed in the reposotories.
<joejaxx> persia: lol
<joejaxx> i thought nvu was merged into another project
<persia> zejosh: nvu was dropped after edgy: I'll get you a reason in a moment.
<wraund> thats weird
<wraund> i have it installed on my machine :S
<persia> wraund: The uninstall wasn't forced, but it's not supported anymore.
<joejaxx> wraund: maybe you upgraded from edgy? :)
<zejosh> Ok, Is there a dreamweaver equivalent on Xubuntu 7.10?
<wraund> joejaxx: come to think of it i did :P
<joejaxx> wraund: :P
<zejosh> I Need it for html authing & ftp publishing
<wraund> joejaxx: lol i remember the upgrade troubles from edgy to feisty :PD
<persia> Debian bug #393065
<ubotu> Debian bug 393065 in ftp.debian.org "RM: nvu -- RoM; abandoned upstream" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/393065
<joejaxx> wraund: :P i have upgraded from dapper to gutsy before lol that was fun
<wraund> joejaxx: must have taken a while
<effie_jayx> joejaxx,  straight?
<effie_jayx> from dapper to gutsy?
<joejaxx> effie_jayx: yeap
<effie_jayx> no edgyÂ»feistyÂ»gutsy
<joejaxx> no
<effie_jayx> joejaxx,  how was it... ?
<joejaxx> it worked for me
<joejaxx> but this was when gutsy was in alpha still
<joejaxx> i really should be testing that again along with my lts -> lts tests
<effie_jayx> joejaxx,  well I still have dapper on a box
<effie_jayx> so I might test later
<joejaxx> nice
<joejaxx> :)
<zejosh> Is there a way to get Adobe programs onto Xubuntu 7.10?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> er, unless you wish to use medibuntu, and violate adobe's licence (acrobat, at least)
 * persia notes that it may be possible to use things directly from Adobe as well, but that this is completely unsupported, and that this is not a support channel
<Hobbsee> ahhh, so that's where my extra battery life went
<Ubulette> anyone willing to review prism ?
<persia> Ubulette: I was just heading off, but what's the URL?
<Ubulette> persia, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=prism
 * Hobbsee wonders what hte command was to check the battery stats is.  acpitool or something?
<Hobbsee> like, how far it charged last time
<Hobbsee> searching isnt helping me :(
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: cat AFAIK
<Hobbsee> it was hdparm or acpi or something, wiht a switch, and i think it was jdong who originally told me.
<Hobbsee> and i cant find it :(
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: useful, but it wasnt that - had info about the % of original charge it was, etc.
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: s/state/info/ ? :_0
<Nafallo> :-) even
<LucidFox> persia> that version-acquiring method doesn't work with -XubuntuY
<persia> LucidFox: which method?
<LucidFox> dpkg-parsechangelog | egrep '^Version' | egrep -o '[0-9][^-]+'
<LucidFox> ah, wait... it outputs two lines, so it's sufficient to just add "| head -n 1"
<Ubulette> i do:
<Ubulette> DEBIAN_VERSION := $(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | sed -n 's/^Version: *\(.*\)$$/\1/ p')
<Ubulette> DEBIAN_UPSTREAM_VERSION := $(shell echo $(DEBIAN_VERSION) | sed 's/^\(.*\)-[^-]*$$/\1/')
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: not the same, but good enough
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> I'm one of those who is against installing unneccessary software  ;-)
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: acpi -b
<Hobbsee> now, every once in a while, it's worth grepping irc. logs.  it was  acpitool -B
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: found that one already
<joejaxx> oh ok
<Hobbsee>     Last full capacity : 3019 mAh, 62.90% of design capacity
<Hobbsee>     Capacity loss      : 37.10%
<jdong> lastlog jdong
<jdong> grr
<persia> Ubulette: some comments added to start.  There's likely more, but I'm to bed, and there's enough there for another revision.
<Ubulette> persia, ok, thanks. I'll read that
<Ubulette> "Please use the get-prig-source: rule, rather than get-orig: as documented in debian policy " ?? eh ? get-prig-source ?
<Ubulette> prig ?
<joejaxx> Ubulette: orig
<joejaxx> oh wait
<joejaxx> nevermind
<Ubulette> maybe yes, get-orig-source
<joejaxx> looks like a typo
<proppy> how can I check a package version in hardy ?
<proppy> packages.ubuntu.com doesn't list (yet) hardy
<proppy> (let's try LP)
<proppy> geser: ping
<geser> proppy: pong
<proppy> geser: you seem to be the one who uploaded openscenegraph to gutsy
<proppy> Is that ok if I will a backport request of 2.0 ?
<proppy> oups 2.2
<geser> proppy: sure, I only uploaded for a rebuild
<geser> proppy: for version check you can use rmadison (devscripts) or packages.ubuntu.com (it lists hardy)
<proppy> geser: bug #165009
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165009 in gutsy-backports "Please backport openscenegraph 2.2.0-2 from hardy to gutsy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165009
<proppy> does this seems a good backport request to you
<proppy> ?
<geser> proppy: I've no experience with backports (and as I don't use openscenegraph I can't comment if it's ok to backport 2.2 either)
<proppy> I use openscenegraph and 2.2 introduce a lot of new feature
<proppy> I should have requested a sync before gutsy :)
<geser> proppy: iirc jdong is our backports master, so ask him about the backports
<proppy> jdong: ping
<proppy> geser: thanks
<proppy> jdong: context is requesting a backport for a library, with a major version change, is to be acked or not ?
<proppy> jdong: is there a procedure to get the library updated in the current release ? or should we wait for the next one ?
<LaserRock> oh, man, I thought my laptop just died
<LaserRock> seriously uncool
<somerville32> If Java wasn't so slow, I would love it.
<pheature> notification-daemon was not added to the recommended list of either xchat or libnotify-bin, whom should i talk to?
<LaserJock> somerville32: you find it slow?
<somerville32> LaserJock, I have a 333mhz remember :P
<LaserJock> seems like I've read something that said it was faster than Python
<somerville32> I think the issue is Swing, TBH
<somerville32> Java isn't that slow
<LaserJock> though benchmarks are a bit like opinions, everybody has one and they don't mean a darn thing
<LaserJock> anybody have any good suggestions for determining if a hard drive is dying?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: is it S.M.A.R.T. capable
<LaserJock> yes
<artm> hi. I'm following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU and next thing i have to do is "ask the REVU admins in #ubuntu-motu to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring".
<imbrandon> LaserJock: make sure smart is enabled and use the smart tool then i would say
<artm> which is what i'm doing like
<imbrandon> artm: ok give me a minute , i'll announce when its finished ( eta ~15 minutes )
<artm> imbrandon: thanks
<imbrandon> LaserJock: aka smartctl iirc
<pheature> notification-daemon was not added to the recommended list of either xchat or libnotify-bin, whom should i talk to?
<superm1> pheature, file a bug against both of those packages
<pheature> superm1: url, please?
<superm1> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xchat/+filebug
<pheature> thanks
<superm1> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnotify
<imbrandon> artm: sorry for the delay, key finished syncing
<Ubulette> do I need to bump the version of my package to post an update in REVU (following comments from reviewers)?
<imbrandon> Ubulette: no
<imbrandon> Ubulette: infact the versioning on REVU should always match what you would like to be in the archive,and shouldent change
<Ubulette> imbrandon, ok. thanks
<artm> imbrandon: no problem, thanks
<RainC1> what was the command to see which ubuntu version is installed?
<slangasek> lsb_release -r
<xhaker> today's revu day?
<xhaker> 's as in is
<RainCT> slangasek: thanks
<imbrandon> xhaker: it will be soon :)
<xhaker> pochu, thanks for the comments on the eclipse merge
<xhaker> imbrandon, so it'd be.. 26th
<pochu> xhaker: if they had been useful at least... :)
<Kmos> can someone check if debdiff is ok? bug 164426
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164426 in straw "Please merge straw 0.27-0.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164426
<Kmos> +	dh_install debian/gcx.desktop usr/share/applications
<Kmos> +	dh_install debian/gcx.svg usr/share/pixmaps
<Kmos> +	dh_desktop
<Kmos> this is correct?
<Kmos> dh_desktop and dh_icons doesn't do these two dh_install ?
<LaserJock> no
<norsetto> kmos: no
<LaserJock> dh_desktop and dh_icons doen't install files
<Ubulette> persia, i've updated prism in revu a while ago, feel free to review my changes & comments
<LaserJock> Kmos: there are a couple of whitespace changes in the changelog that would be good to get out
<Kmos> LaserJock: i only do debdiff, don't know where they come from
<Kmos> - and + with the same thing
<Kmos> LaserJock: ah ok =)
<Kmos> LaserJock: we need to handle them at .install file right ?
<frenchy> Hi All, when I run lintian I get a "menu-item-uses-apps-section", so I tried to change the section from Apps/Viewers to Applications->Viewers but then it had a complain about an unknown section.
<frenchy> /usr/share/doc/menu/menu.txt.gz tells me that Apps/Viewers is fine.
<RainCT> hi
<Kmos> frenchy: debian uses Applications, not Ubuntu.. i think =)
<Kmos> RainCT: hey
<LaserJock> Kmos: well or you can have the dh_install lines as you have
<pochu> Kmos: we don't use the menu files at all :)
<frenchy> Kmos: so you think that I might be able to ignore this hopefully.
<soren> frenchy: pass -i to lintian, too, and everything will be much clearer.
<Kmos> pochu :) only .desktop
<pochu> yup :)
<LaserJock> woah, hang on
<frenchy> soren: Thanks
<frenchy> LaserJock: Who's doing the hanging?
<LaserJock> frenchy: what are you doing? a merge, new package?
<Kmos> LaserJock: there is an option for debdiff to surpress these - + lines with the same thing? i haven't touched them
<frenchy> LaserJock: A new package.
<LaserJock> Kmos: bah, no, that is standard diff output, you should know that by now
<LaserJock> Kmos: but you've changed whitespace in some of those lines, and it's nice to not mess around with other people's changelog entries
 * pwnguin thinks if people spent half as much time talking about mentoring as they did actually mentoring, the problem would be solved...
<LaserJock> frenchy: ok, then you shouldn't ignore that lintian error
<LaserJock> pwnguin: to some degree yes for sure, but some people don't want to sign up for just anything
<LaserJock> pwnguin: mentoring is a big commitment
<Kmos> LaserJock: i will work on that :)
<Amaranth> LaserJock: I prefer random acts of helpfulness
<pochu> hey norsetto. slomo is actually mentoring me. would you mind updating that file?
<norsetto> pochu: ah, thats good to know ....
<Amaranth> But then I've got like 20,000 things to do so I don't have time to do more :)
<pochu> he has been mentoring me for a long time btw :)
<LaserJock> Amaranth: yes, some people prefer that, some people prefer long-term one-on-one learning
<norsetto> pochu: since when?
<pochu> norsetto: let me look at my first liferea upload :)
<Amaranth> 2005? ;)
<Kmos> LaserJock: i don't have that space in the kumar -+ at changelog..
<Kmos> it's strange
<frenchy> LaserJock: Thanks.
<Kmos> LaserJock: http://pastebin.com/d4b1d3ca6
<pochu> norsetto: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 was my first liferea upload, so more or less since then :)
<LaserJock> frenchy: one sec and I'll see what you're supposed to have
<Amaranth> huh
<Amaranth> I feel old
<norsetto> pochu: ok, thanks for correcting this. I assume you are still in touch with slomo?
<frenchy> LaserJock: where do you see that from?  I need the teachers edition also.
<Kmos> LaserJock: http://pastebin.com/d5506732c
<pochu> norsetto: yup :)
<norsetto> pochu: ok, I'm glad about that.
<LaserJock> frenchy: in /usr/share/doc/menu/menu.txt.gz
<Amaranth> my first upload: Published  on 2005-12-21
<LaserJock> frenchy: ok so you want Applications/Viewers, right?
<Amaranth> pochu: But I bet you've done more packaging than me :)
 * RainCT wonders if he's the only one who hasn't 'menu' installed :P
<frenchy> LaserJock: When I do that it complains about it having an unknown Section.
<LaserJock> Kmos: are you wondering about the + and - in that?
<Amaranth> RainCT: I wouldn't have it installed if I didn't need it to test a bug
<LaserJock> frenchy: what OS/version are you using?
<Amaranth> Isn't it going away in Debian anyway?
<frenchy> LaserJock: Ubuntu, Gutsy.
<LaserJock> frenchy: I don't think Gutsy has the latest menu changes
<Kmos> LaserJock: yes.. why they appear in debdiff
<frenchy> LaserJock: But I'm building for hardy ... maybe that's the issue.
<LaserJock> Kmos: well, there are some in the changelog itself, which is just used for outlining
<LaserJock> frenchy: yep
<LaserJock> frenchy: so go with Applications
<Kmos> LaserJock: so the debdiff is ok ?
<LaserJock> Kmos: no
<Kmos> -  * debian/pycompat: Set to 2
<Kmos> +  * debian/pycompat: Set to 2
<Kmos> don't understand why this
<LaserJock> Kmos: there are the + and - used in the debdiff
<RainCT> do you need the build dependencies to debuild -S a package?
<frenchy> LaserJock: Thanks,
<LaserJock> Kmos: yes, that's what I'm talking about
<frenchy> .
<norsetto> rainct: you might
<Kmos> LaserJock: i've done again the debdiff, and checked my changelog first, and still reproduces the same thing
<LaserJock> RainCT: no, that's source package
<LaserJock> Kmos: right, somewhere along the line you have changed the whitespace (tabe or a space) of those lines
<Kmos> LaserJock: i'll check it, thanks
<RainCT> LaserJock, norsetto: thx
<LaserJock> Kmos: you could also manually remove that part of the debdiff
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> LaserJock: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10555568/straw_0.27-0.1ubuntu1.debdiff
<pochu> Kmos: how's it going with straw maintainer?
<Kmos> pochu: debian ?
<pochu> Kmos: yep. the package was orphaned wasn't it?
<Kmos> no.. kumar done a non maintainer upload
<Kmos> i think he's a better maintainer for it :)
<Kmos> or python team
<pochu> Kmos: is it still orphaned?
<Kmos> pochu: no.. he's still as maintainer and co-maintainer
<Kmos> http://packages.qa.debian.org/straw
<pochu> but still no work from him :/
<Kmos> yeah
<Kmos> :(
<slangasek> can someone tell me where to find the merge-buildpackage script referenced in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging ?  I don't seem to have it, there's no mention of a package, and bash doesn't seem to look it up for me
<lifeless> devscripts I thought
<slangasek> not in the gutsy version
<slangasek> there seems to be a split ubuntu-dev-tools package now where some Ubuntu-specific stuff has moved, but merge-buildpackage isn't there either
<LaserJock> slangasek: it's from MoM
<imbrandon> i think when you get a package via grab-merge.sh it also gets that script in the cwd
<LaserJock> yep, what imbrandon said
<slangasek> hrm, ok
<lifeless> http://pastebin.com/m5e4b85d6
<lifeless> google FTW
<Kmos> can someone sponsor bug 164426 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164426 in straw "Please merge straw 0.27-0.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164426
<Kmos> imbrandon: lists at ubuntuwire aren't working yet, right ?
<imbrandon> Kmos: sure they are
<imbrandon> just havent had any requests for new lists :)
<slangasek> oh pff, that's all it does is set the -sa, -S, and -v options?
<imbrandon> Kmos: btw did you subscribe u-u-s to the bug ? might get more attention that way
 * slangasek moves along
<Kmos> imbrandon: i subcribe it and didn't received any mail
<LaserJock> slangasek: yeah
<Kmos> imbrandon: yes
<imbrandon> Kmos: to the users list ?
<Kmos> imbrandon: yes
<imbrandon> there isnt much traffic on it yet :)
<Kmos> and is still empty, if i click in the archive
<imbrandon> correct
<Kmos> imbrandon: i do it today and last week
<Kmos> don't receive me
<Kmos> mail
<imbrandon> let me check
<Kmos> imbrandon: maybe you have it in manually
<Kmos> and why no archive ?
<imbrandon> no messages have been sent to the list yet ( still new )
<imbrandon> are you @gmx.at ?
<Kmos> nop
<Kmos> @sapo.pt
<imbrandon> k give me a few minutes to look into it, i know the admin@ list works, we use it ( almost ) daily
<Kmos> imbrandon: any news?
<imbrandon> Kmos: i'm on orko now fiddling with it
<cyberix> Which team handles gettin new versions from Debian?
<somerville32> This one for Universe
<cyberix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnunet-gtk/+bug/163784
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163784 in gnunet-gtk "0.7.2c for Hardy" [Undecided,New]
<geser> !info gnunet-gtk hardy
<ubotu> gnunet-gtk: GTK frontend to GNUnet. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.7.1c-2ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 213 kB, installed size 1004 kB
<geser> hmm, ubotu seems to be not up-to-date
<geser> gnunet-gtk | 0.7.2c-2ubuntu1 | hardy/universe | source
<geser> cyberix: so it seems to be already in hardy
<cyberix> odd
<cyberix> packages.ubuntu.com isn't up-to-date either.
<geser> ah, FTBFS
<geser> cyberix: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/gnunet-gtk/+builds
<cyberix> Well
<cyberix> great
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-17
<handschuh> mok0: why cant you test it? test if it builds?
<Hobbsee> RAOF_298: use ppa for it, instead?
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<mok0> handschuh: It builds fine, but not being a java programmer, I can't verify that the library works as advertised
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!
<handschuh> mok0: a ok, thats fine
<RAOF> Hobbsee: That seems somewhat against the spirit of the PPA, though
<RAOF> ?
<handschuh> mok0: thanks for reviewing
<Hobbsee> RAOF: well....
<Hobbsee> RAOF: it's for testing packages, and distributing them if they're good?
<RAOF> As opposed to just testing whether they build or not? :)
<RAOF> I could, I suppose.  Jaunty's now PPAable, isn't it.
<Hobbsee> well, if they don't build, then they don't get distributed.  if they do build, people get them via the ubuntu repos anyway, so the ppa versions will be overwritten
<Hobbsee> yes, i believe so
<binarymutant> in a man page, does = need to be \= ?
<mok0> binarymutant: you mean escape the minus? No
<mok0> s/minus/equal
<binarymutant> thanks mok0
<joaopinto> erm
<joaopinto> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=2998 <- dpatch is on the build depends, how could it fail to build ?
<RAOF> Why are you including both /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make and /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/dpatch.make?
<joaopinto> good question, copy&paste
<joaopinto> well, at least the package got a review :P
<joaopinto> I will fix the dpatch double inclusion once I get more things to fix
<ryanakca> Can mk-sbuild-lv be used to create Debian schroots?
<RAOF> That's how I built my sid chroot, yes.
<RAOF> I may have had to specify a different mirror or something; it's been a while, and the disc that has those schroots is sitting in a box with (at least) a blown power supply.
 * RAOF wonders whether it'd be considered polite to test the grub2 installs and works before uploading :)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: uh, yes.
<StevenK> It's a bootloader. You should try it yourself and in a virtual machine
<ajmitch> RAOF: just put a link to your package on the forums
<RAOF> Juuust kiddin.
<RAOF> ajmitch: Good plan!
<RAOF> Cmon LP.  Publish those binaries.
<StevenK> But rename it to openoffice.org3
<ajmitch> you'll soon hear of any probelms
<ScottK> Be sure and set the maintainer to ajmitch before you put it in your PPA though.
 * StevenK grins
 * ajmitch sets up procmail to bounce any mail about grub2 to ScottK 
<ryanakca> RAOF: thanks
<zul> ajmitch: evil
<emgent> hello people
<nhandler> mHey emgent
<emgent> heya master
<emgent> :)
<nhandler> emgent: I still need one more +1 before you can call me that ;)
<emgent> hahah
<effie_jayx> hey all , what is the command for knowing what patch sys the packages uses
<effie_jayx> =
<tbielawa> I recommend checking what the build depends are
<jdong> a quick look at debian/rules's includes is often indicative, too
<tbielawa> yep
 * ajmitch dies a little inside seeing questions about checkinstall
<RAOF> There's also the "what-patch" script shipped in... devtools?
<persia> ubuntu-dev-tools
<RAOF> persiabot is faster than dpkg -S :)
<jdong> ajmitch: you mean... that's not how you make a deb?
<jdong> ajmitch: do you recall someone coming into #ubuntu-devel a year ago trying to build a deb by using dh_make && dpkg-buildpackage in one fell swoop?
<ajmitch> jdong: no, you use ar
 * jdong sees Firefox 3.0.4 crack in jaunty and pre-backports
<tbielawa> lol
<binarymutant> anyone know of any good tutorials on dpatch? besides the wiki and morph's blog?
<persia> binarymutant, Generally it's just datch-edit-patch patchname, and including the right dpatch makefile fragment.
<RAOF> binarymutant: What aspect of dpatch would you like a tutorial for?  I find it pretty self-explanitory.
<RAOF> zsh (at least) will even tab-autocomplete the patchname for you, if you're editing an existing patch.
<effie_jayx> ok... I have been goolgling about doing the import for quilt in debian/rules ... can anyones direct me as where to read about this?
<binarymutant> well do I create 00list for dpatch?
<RAOF> binarymutant: 'emacs debian/patches/00list'
<binarymutant> RAOF, so ya, because that would be a new file for me
<jdong> RAOF: you mean vi?
<RAOF> jdong: No, because I'm a worshiper of the One True Operating System.
<coppro> emacs?
<RAOF> Right.
 * coppro uses neither!
<effie_jayx> found it :D
<effie_jayx> I am using a patch system and I am sure I did not touch the code, yet lintian complains about "patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff .pc/.version" any clues?
<RAOF> I suspect that's a quilt-related directory, but I'm not sure.
<RAOF> "Fetched 15.6MB in 1h59min35s (2169B/s)".  Yay.
<effie_jayx> how could I check this?
<coppro> LOL
<ajmitch> RAOF: welcome to the first world
<RAOF> Well, you could see what's in that directory.  But man quilt contains a reference to .pc.
<jdong> I remember those days.
<ajmitch> jdong: and people in the US dare to complain about a 250GB limit
<jdong> ajmitch: well that's more because you are paying $80/mo for "unlimited" internet
<RAOF> jdong: Really USD$80/mo?
<jdong> RAOF: some of the Comcast plans are around that price, yes.
<RAOF> I hope you get crazygood bandwidth, then.
<jdong> RAOF: I know my neighbors on Comcast pay about $120 for high-speed internet and cable TV combined
<jdong> yeah he's got some crazy 10 or 12mbit plan
<jdong> which is kinda pointless when they "cap" you to 250GiB
<RAOF> Well, not really.  Burst speed is important.
 * RAOF looks at his modem's sync page, which suggests he's getting 24Mbit down.
<RAOF> Or would be, were caps not in effect.
<ajmitch> RAOF: living right next door to the exchange?
<RAOF> No idea where my exchange is; were I next door I'd be expecting a better sync, though.
<ajmitch> better than 24Mbps?
<ajmitch> that is the upper limit of adsl 2
<ajmitch> s/2/2+/
 * RAOF was under the impression 28 was the upper limit, but that may be faulty memory.
 * ajmitch has always seen 24
<ajmitch> of course the best I've seen at home is about 11 :)
<calc> i can only get 3mbps here i would love any of that bandwidth even just 10mbps :)
<calc> transferring OOo back and forth takes a long time on 3m/512k connection
<persia> Ouch!
<TheMuso> Ouch indeed.
<calc> if i switched to cable modem i think i can get 6mbps maybe but then its shared bandwidth, so not sure what the effective rate would be
<persia> My experience with shared bandwidth is that it's best practice not to try to use it when your neighbours want to use it.
 * ajmitch is on about 7Mbps/128Kbps
<calc> persia: heh
<ajmitch> so uploads = slow
<calc> ajmitch: 128kbps would be very painful for OOo :)
<ajmitch> if I were uploading OOo, I'd be tempted to copy it to my laptop & upload from work
<ScottK> I called my ISP earlier in the week and while I was on the phone, they said, "Oh. you have the 12/2 Mbit plan.  We don't offer that any more.  We can switch you to 25/5 for US$ 0.04 more per month."
<ScottK> I said, "OK".
<tbielawa> !
<tbielawa> ScottK, FTW!
<ScottK> So sometimes it pays to call in.
<gnomefreak> 1993/win 20
<persia> But what have you won lately?
<StevenK> RAOF: I'm guessing Do caches .desktop entries. Can I make it flush it?
<RAOF> StevenK: It only indexes .desktop entries on each start.  Quitting and starting it again will fix that.
<wgrant> ScottK: In Australia it doesn't pay... with most major ISPs, they'll try to transfer you to the new set of plans which are vastly inferior to the one you've been on for 5 years...
<wgrant> And what kind of connection are you on to get 5Mbps upstream!?
<coppro> I get some obscene upstream rate on this connection
 * wgrant has 10000/256
<ScottK> wgrant: It's fiber all the way to the house.
<wgrant> ScottK: Oh. I hate you.
<ScottK> That's actually the slowest speed they offer.
<ScottK> Well there's actual competition here now and it appears to be working.
<jmarsden> wgrant: 10000/256 seems highly asymetrical... do you mean 1000/256 ?
<wgrant> jmarsden: No, 10000/256
<jmarsden> Wow, strange.  I'm not sure I've seen a connection with a 40:1 ratio like that.
<wgrant> One would think not.
<wgrant> The 1GB plan (we're on the 12GB one) is 10000/128
<solarion> ScottK: where are you at?
 * solarion is sad because he just mvoed away from a whole-city free fiber rollout.  :(
<ScottK> solarion: Outside Baltimore, MD (USA).
<solarion> ah
<ScottK> solarion: Not free at all.  I have Verizon FIOS.
<solarion> ScottK: Liberty Communications is doing the rollout in my case
<ScottK> The trick is I have the painfully more expensive and slower version you get if you are a
<solarion> Basically, cable brought in broadband and phone.  Instead of taking it on the chin, the little company rolled out IPTV services.  But the bandwidth was limited, so you could only have 3 set-top boxes
<ScottK> 'business' and need static IP.
<solarion> tehy're solving that problem now.  :)
<ScottK> My experience with cable TV companies and ISP services is that they know a lot about cable TV.
<solarion> I should say that the little company was the local phone company for about 3 small towns in Iowa
<solarion> so when cable came to eat their lunch, they set out to eat the big, multi-state company's lunch.  :)
<ScottK> Good for them.
<solarion> they're pretty cool
<solarion> it's very very very nice to have a small company for your isp.  Customer service isn't just lip service.
 * solarion has at&t now and misses his old company
<ScottK> When I called Verizon about a DNS problem last week, the first person I talked to said, "What's DNS".  It was a long day.
<solarion> yeah, that's been my experience with AT&T
<ScottK> Where in Iowa?
<wgrant> ScottK: I have cable, but the cable TV provider who is also the ISP is the second-largest national telco.
<ScottK> Eventually I got it sorted out.
<solarion> http://www.lcom.net/switchmaxx/home.htm
<solarion> http://www.lcom.net/switchmaxx/page.htm?page=Fiber  <- their fiber rollout page
<solarion> ScottK: AT&T's voice recognition system is complete crap
<solarion> but at least it's not like OG&E's
<solarion> even the customer service rep said it's a PITA
<nixternal> ooh, I see mad java ninjas posting to the MC list
 * nixternal might be interested in working with the java team a bit, except for the maven bit
<solarion> "maven bit"?
<nixternal> ya, seems the java team enjoys maven
<solarion> ah
<persia> nixternal, Err, that's very much not the case.  It's rather that the java team is trying to find a way to support upstreams that enjoy maven without actually letting maven break stuff in the normal way.
<nixternal> though once I switch the company's appliance OS from CentOS to Ubuntu, I may get to use Maven even more
<persia> nixternal, There's a plan in place to trick maven so it can't do things the way it expects, which may be interesting to you.
<nixternal> persia: it is hard not letting maven break stuff...that is why I am not using it with CentOS at work...we just use ant for building, and the developers for the good stuff
<nixternal> that does sound interesting
<nixternal> though I don't know how inclined I would be to working on Java stuff outside of work anyways...I know I am heading towards that Java meltdown :)
 * nixternal looks for more C++ and Python projects to bring him back to earth :)
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Specs/MavenSupportSpec
<solarion> what's the big difference between ubuntu server and desktop?
<persia> solarion, Default package selection, installer interface, and contents of the CD.
<nixternal> the server doesn't have a desktop environment :)
<nixternal> and kernel
<nixternal> though I don't know the differences there much
<persia> Oh, right, and kernel.
<persia> But still, I'd class kernel under "default package selection".
<nixternal> true
<solarion> so it's probably not worht re-installing then
<solarion> just install the new packages and go
 * solarion is repurposing an old laptop
<persia> solarion, Depends on your goal.  If you have an old laptop, and you want a mail/dns server, reinstall might be faster.
<persia> Then again, it's certainly less bandwidth to just install different packages.  Depends on your constraint.
<solarion> I suppose I want to reprtition
<nixternal> persia: the Java team going to be at UDS? If so, I will hang out with them a bit and see how that all goes...that looks like a killer spec to be honest
<nixternal> are you going to UDS btw?
<persia> In that case, reinstall is probably easier.  Juggling paritions on a live system is a tricky game.
<solarion> yeah
<persia> nixternal, Some of us will be there.  Koon won't be able to make it.
<solarion> though since i have a root partition and two others, it wouldn't be too bad
<solarion> boot single and monkey around a bit
<solarion> meh, is bedtime for bonzo
<solarion> thanks
<persia> nixternal, Needs a *lot* of packaging work.  More hands are very welcome.
<nixternal> groovy...I think it is time for me to go to bed..need to wake up in 4.5 hours :/
<persia> See the bootstrapping dependencies list.
<nixternal> YAY SNOW IN CHICAGO TONIGHT!
 * solarion is gonna miss snow
<sjdurfey> i installed qt4 in gnome, the designer, translator, and assistant, but the designer cant find the assistant when i try to open it, anyone know how to fix this?
<dholbach> good morning
<nellery> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi nellery
<didrocks> morning o/
<Laibsch> good morning
<Laibsch> I wonder if there is a way to specify a build-time dependency as either (a AND b) OR c.  IOW, the dependency is fullfilled if either c is installed or both a and b simultaneously
<persia> Laibsch, Not simply.  I think you'd need a package name to represent the contents of the parentheses.
<persia> To ask differently, with which would you prefer it to build?
<persia> (a and b) or (c)
<Laibsch> depends on the release
<Laibsch> I guess I'd prefer c, but that is not available in hardy
<Laibsch> only intrepid and jaunty
<ianm_> general question here.  I'm an app developer, and my app uses a library that's packaged at 0.23, and now 0.25 is out and it has a feature my app needs.  I contacted the package maintainer but no reply, and I see no signs that it's being updated.  what do I do?  http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/jaunty/liblo
<persia> ianm_, liblo has *lots* of reverse dependencies, including a couple applications we routinely have difficulty building cleanly.
<persia> I'd personally be opposed to updating it except in coordination with Debian to avoid issues.
<persia> Debian is currently frozen for the upcoming Lenny release.
<persia> So, from a distro point of view, I'll say "wait".
<persia> For your specific personal use, you might want to update the app locally.
 * persia looks for the wiki page about updating library packaging.
<ianm_> so after Lenny, they might update it, meaning it might get into Jaunty? or +1?
<persia> It's very likely to be updated once Lenny releases, and would then be in either Jaunty or Jaunty+1, depending on the timing of the update.
<ianm_> the feature I need in liblo is setting the broadcast flag on a socket when the dest address is 255.255.255.255.  frustrating how hard it is to get that to end users
<ianm_> so Jaunty+1, isn't that like a year away?
 * ianm_ swoons
<persia> I suspect it's more likely to be in Jaunty, but it does depend on timing.
<ianm_> is that 9.04 ?
<persia> Does it really need all of 0.25?  Are the changes in 0.25 small enough that a patch is useful?
<persia> Yes.  Jaunty will be released as 9.04
<persia> Here it is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0809/PackageUpdates
<ianm_> my app needs almost none of 0.25.  just this:  if (ip[0]==255 && ip[1]==255 && ip[2]==255 && ip[3]==255) { int opt = 1; setsockopt(a->socket, SOL_SOCKET, SO_BROADCAST, &opt, sizeof(int)); }
<persia> ianm_, That's easier to apply then, although it's still likely to be Jaunty before it would be released to end-users.
<ianm_> is it possible/OK to include a custom liblo in a PPA .deb?
<persia> I'd recommend using either a patched version or 0.25 locally for development.  If it's not updated by 25th December, then submit a bug with a patch for the bit you need.
<persia> No, but your PPA can contain a custom liblo.
<persia> Of course, this may well break the other 30 applications that use liblo.
<ianm_> it can't be the only one to use it?
<persia> Nope.
<ianm_> can you static link this stuff?
<ianm_> been a while since I've done C :D
<persia> You can static link things, but that's likely to break if there's any reason to upgrade (e.g. security fix).  Depending on how you static link, you may end up having something that usually can't be installed.
<ianm_> hm
<ianm_> maybe there's a way to find out the socket # and hack it
<ianm_> persia: thanks for the advice
<binarymutant> if anyone has any time on their hands I would appreciate a review of my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm . Thanks :)
<handschuh> binarymutant: you shuld state in the changelog what the paches do, and why they are needed
<handschuh> s/shuld/should
<binarymutant> good point :)
<binarymutant> handschuh, can you see anything else wrong?
<handschuh> binarymutant: nothing so far, but still looking
<binarymutant> ty for taking the time
<handschuh> binarymutant: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/report.py/legal?upid=4035 - have you contact to upstream?
<binarymutant> handschuh, to fix license issues and to say how much I liked the app a while ago
<binarymutant> handschuh, I'm not sure why it reports that, it says gpl in the copyright file, and the gpl is shipped with the package now
<handschuh> binarymutant: well, it is recommanded to add a license header to every source-file
<binarymutant> I thought I should stay away from modifying the source
<handschuh> binarymutant: thats why you can contact upstream to fix it  :-)
<slytherin> binarymutant: of course you should. Upstream has to add license headers.
<persia> For GPL, it says in the "how to use the GPL" section that license should be in every source file.  I've rejected many packages for exactly that reason, and seen others rejected by archive-admins when they were submitted.
<binarymutant> is that policy? Because I had already bugged them to include the license in the orig tar ball
<persia> That said, patching the files to include licensing is unacceptable.  It must be done upstream.
<binarymutant> so this app would get rejected by debian for that? kinda sucks :/
<sebner> persia: in debian/copyright it's -> This package is free software ... Is it a mistake when there it's $Package is free software ... Ã
<sebner> -Ã +?
<persia> sebner, Not generally a terribly important mistake.  Best to use the text from the upstream license.
<binarymutant> well the ljcharm.py has it in there but the wrapper script charm doesn't :/
<sebner> persia: okay, thx
<persia> binarymutant, Wrapper scripts are sometimes exceptions, and sometimes not.  Depends on complexity, opinion of reviewers, and what the reviewing archive-admin ate for breakfast that day.
<binarymutant> and the setup.py doesn't either...
<persia> binarymutant, For best results, get it included.
<handschuh> binarymutant: i am sure, upstream will be glad to receive this hint about the license
<binarymutant> I'll try thanks for that info, hopefully she wont think i'm bugging her
<persia> binarymutant, There's no race.  If you've passed her a patch recently, there's no harm waiting.  There's lots of other stuff to do in the meantime :)
<binarymutant> lol k
<handschuh> slytherin: do you have got some time to review a small java package @ http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uiflite now?
<binarymutant> is there anything else I could do to this package?
<handschuh> binarymutant: everything else looks fine to me ... (about dpatch, I am not sure)
<binarymutant> cool, thanks again handschuh
<handschuh> binarymutant: have you checked the lintian of the package (binary) and the source?
<binarymutant> yeah a bunch of times
<handschuh> binarymutant: ok great.
<handschuh> binarymutant: (as long as it was empty)
<handschuh> s/was/is
<slytherin> handschuh: not right now. I will try to find time in night, about 6 hours form now.
<binarymutant> handschuh, the only error is the one about jaunty
<handschuh> slytherin: ok, no problem, as persia mentioned, there's a lot other stuff to do
<handschuh> binarymutant: thats perfectly fine
<eMerzh> if someone has a few time to check my revu package ....http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman
<handschuh> eMerzh: take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/sqliteman-0811170000/lintian
<eMerzh> oups :) thanks
<handschuh> eMerzh: there is more
<handschuh> eMerzh: your CMakeLists.txt should be modifyed by a patch
<porthose> mounin
<handschuh> eMerzh: debian/control: Copyright: there is no need to add the word "Copyright" before every name
<binarymutant> persia, what about distutils should setup.py also include gpl?
<eMerzh> ok, it's a patch bu i must understand why he apply the patch in the diff
<eMerzh> ok
<handschuh> eMerzh: also, explain the path in the changelog (what does the patch do and why did you add it)
<eMerzh> ok :)
<eMerzh> thanks
<handschuh> eMerzh: also make sure the lintian of the binary package is empty (check with "lintian <.deb-file>")
<persia> binarymutant, I don't usually see a GPL'd setup.py, and don't remember something being rejected for it, but I typically avoid python packages, so that may influence my experience.
<handschuh> eMerzh: take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/report.py/legal?upid=4031 - there are some license issues that should be fixed by the upstream authors
<binarymutant> Oh okay, then the package should be fine in the license department, I don't know why it says unknown for ljcharm.py since it's already in there. Very cool thanks
<eMerzh> handschuh, ok i will contact upstream autor... but i must wait a new release with correct licences to re-apply to revu?
<handschuh> eMerzh: you don't have to wait for the new upstream version
<handschuh> eMerzh: you could reupload and post a comment, that you have contacted upstream about the licenses
<eMerzh> Ok, great...
<handschuh> eMerzh: should I make a summary as a comment to your package?
<eMerzh> no , everything is noted...and work is in progress   :p
<handschuh> eMerzh: great
<eMerzh> thanks to you for your help
<handschuh> eMerzh: you're welcome
<bmm> I'm looking for my first advocate for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink or comments if needed :)
<handschuh> bmm: check your legal-file at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/report.py/legal?upid=4019 - it shows some files w/o copyright
<DktrKranz> porthose, re slidentd merge, IIRC you noticed an issue, have you it handy?
<handschuh> bmm: delete the commented lines of your debian/rules file
<bmm> handschuh: I filed an upstream bug for the licenses http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2278178&group_id=148879&atid=772980
<ubottu> Sourceforge bug 2278178 "License missing from some sources" [Pri: 3,Open]
<bmm> handschuh: ok, will do.
<handschuh> bmm: you are not the upstream author?
<bmm> handschuh: yes, I am :D
<bmm> handschuh: so I should put out a new release?
 * persia admires bmm's ability to maintain clear context separation
<handschuh> bmm: yes
<bmm> handschuh: ok, I'll do that then :D
<bmm> handschuh: thanks!
<handschuh> bmm: no problem
<joaopinto> bmm, isn't metalink a bit too generic for a metalink file generator ?
<handschuh> bmm: your debian/rules looks very large ... you could look at cdbs (no manditory)
<joaopinto> since, it's a technology name
<directhex> anyne want to take bets on how much, if any, of the hardware on my new laptop is supported in intrepid?
<handschuh> directhex: brand?
<bmm> joaopinto: well, it was meant as a "metalink <these files>" thing.
<directhex> handschuh, dell
<persia> handschuh, You might be interested in reading about debhelper 7.  It can make rules files shorter for common cases without switching to CDBS.
<persia> directhex, Which OS is supported on your laptop?
<handschuh> persia: didn't know that. thanks!
<directhex> persia, formally, vista
 * persia refuses to place a bet
<joaopinto> bmm, I would name it something like metalink-generator, or metalink-crator, just metalink sounds more like a metalink client
<joaopinto> ops, creator
<handschuh> directhex: my dells hardware is fully supportet so i bet 90%  :-)
<directhex> persia, spoilsport!
<slytherin> directhex: I would guess 90%+
<slytherin> directhex: you might be having problem with card reader or fingerprint reader.
<soren> persia: Can you elaborate on the debhelper 7 making rules files shorter thing?
<wgrant> It's like CDBS, but less bad, I hear.
<soren> What's bad about cdbs?
<joaopinto> CDBS is bad ?
<directhex> slytherin, my bets are on a lack of graphics support or webcam support. AFAIK some nutter actually put the only-exists-in-an-obscure-git-tree wireless drivers onto the ubuntu kernel
 * soren likes cdbs
<directhex> CDBS is awkward to debug
 * handschuh also likes cdbs
<directhex> we use dh7 a lto in pkg-mono
<wgrant> It can be more difficult to get it to do special things. For lots of simple things it's great.
<persia> soren, It introduces a new command `dh` that does all the normal stuff for whichever rule is being called, as I understand it.  I've not yet created a package with it, but those I've seen were rather readable.
<directhex> most packages start life simple ;)
<bmm> How is the legal check performed on REVU, is that something you can run at home?
<directhex> let me grab a pkg-mono dh7 sample
<persia> joaopinto, Read the sendmail debian/rules.
<soren> persia: Oh, I see now.
<directhex> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-mono/gluezilla/trunk/debian/rules?op=file&rev=0&sc=0 is a "complex" dh7 example
<soren> That's rather convenient.
<persia> Indeed, and it does it without quite so much black magic.  Still some magic, but less.
<wgrant> persia: Put a warning in front of that sendmail suggestion next time, please. That's just evil.
 * soren doesn't mind black magic
<soren> :)
<persia> wgrant, Someone asked "what's wrong with CDBS".  That's my standard answer
 * persia is a big CDBS fan
<persia> It's just that CDBS can get unwieldy sometimes, which gets frustrating.
<persia> soren, I agree most of the time.  I only stopped recommending CDBS for everything after being pointed at sendmail.  There's limits to what one should try to do in CDBS.
<soren> That is quite horrible looking indeed.
<joaopinto> persia, would debhelper turn sendmail rules any better ?
<slytherin> CDBS is very good for java packages. :-)
<persia> joaopinto, That's a false question.  CDBS doesn't replace debhelper.  CDBS calls debhelper for you.  But yes, it would be tons easier to understand that rules file if it were done as a single makefile.
<joaopinto> CDBS is very good for standard autoconf builds
<joaopinto> persia, I mean, a non cdbs debhelper make file
<persia> Indeed, for those anything else is likely to be buggy, although dh7 is promising.
<persia> joaopinto, I thought so, which is why I answered in two parts :)
<joaopinto> I just don't see why does CDBS get blamed for a complexity which is from the sendmail build/install process, not from using CDBS
<persia> slytherin, For the 90% case, I agree, although I suspect dh7 would work as well.  It's the 10% that make non-CDBS the better choice.
<persia> joaopinto, The point is that CDBS more quickly becomes unreadable when dealing with very complex build systems.
<persia> Personally, I think any CDBS rules file longer than 24 lines should be redone differently, as it means that the CDBS framework isn't designed to handle your package.
<joaopinto> well, non CDBS is harder to read simple building systems :P
<persia> Less than 24 lines, CDBS probably makes life easier.
<joaopinto> .. for...
<persia> joaopinto, Is directhex's example harder to read?
<joaopinto> persia, I am not refering to dh7, didn't tried it yet
<sebner> Well, the shortest dh7 is:
<persia> joaopinto, Oh, then I agree with you.  Like I said, I'm a big fan of CDBS.
<sebner> #!/usr/bin/make -f
<sebner> %:
<sebner> 	dh $@
<sebner> hehe
<persia> sebner, Indeed, although not every package can do that.  Still, that just means "default packaging : nothing to see here : move along".  About the same as a CDBS rules file that only includes debhelper.mk.
<sebner> persia: heh, yes. true =)
<persia> I'd much rather see that then the mess dh_make produces.  That's just annoying, and almost everyone makes a mistake the first few times they try to determine what they need and what they don't.
<directhex> okay, laptop report: audio works, wired network works, wireless network works, bluetooth works, graphics works (!), webcam works
<directhex> it all bloody works out of the box
<directhex> webcam resolution sucks though ;)
<persia> directhex, You lose.  Time to recompile the kernel.
<directhex> persia, to cause myself pain? o_o
<persia> directhex, Anyway, you probably ought add that to whereever the laptop support list went.  Tell everyone else it's a good choice.
<directhex> even the wifi killswitch works, incl. the LEDs
<directhex> i wasn't anticipating this level of awesome
<directhex> and the scroll-edges of the touchpad
<handschuh> directhex: does also the bt-led works properly?
<directhex> handschuh, yes
<directhex> okay, i lie, the horizontal scroll-edge doesn't work. that's the only busted thing i can find
<handschuh> directhex: you can change that in the mouse-settings
<directhex> handschuh, you're right. that's everything then
<directhex> handschuh, a laptop dell only started shipping a couple of weeks ago, full of bleeding edge tech, and it works 100%
<handschuh> directhex: good thing
<persia> directhex, If it's that new, why didn't you get it with Ubuntu?
<bmm> directhex: I hope you don't have the Intel wireless AGN (with iwlagn driver) because then you have to keep an eye on your shutdowns :)
<directhex> persia, too new to be sold with ubuntu
<directhex> bmm, oh?
<bmm> directhex: iwlagn in the current intrepid kernel seem pretty broken. Package capturing will get you allot of kernel messages and the occasional hang and shutdown with the driver and wireless still on can keep your laptop in limbo without shutting down :)
<bmm> directhex: so if lsmod tells you you are using iwlagn, make sure you keep an eye on the shutdown process now and then ;)
<directhex> bmm, well, did i mention "random git tree"? :p
<bmm> directhex: I'm not getting you, but I'm also trying to do two things at one :)
<bmm> What does "Is on m.d.n.= NO" mean? (in the context of REVUDays)
<soren> m.d.n = mentors.debian.net
<persia> bmm, If someone has an interest in a piece of software, and intends to keep it up to date, we encourage them to submit it to Debian, and maintain it there.
<bmm> Ah, get it. Thanks!
<Hobbsee> wow, canonical's supporting arm for some reason.
 * Hobbsee didn't think arm architectures *did* mobile devices.
<broonie> Hobbsee: Hrm? ARM is msotly mobile devices.
<Hobbsee> broonie: oh, right.  so it is.
<persia> Not that there's much mobile stuff in main, but with luck, at least UMPC might work for Jaunty.  MID is another matter.
<persia> Of course, if I were in charge of the buildd scores...
<Hobbsee> hm?
<persia> I'm not sure I'll be able to get MID on my Zaurus from Jaunty, just because of how the buildd scores work.  Open question whether enough of universe will work for that.
<persia> So if I was in charge of the builldd scores, I might tweak them a bit (but I don't expect the buildd admins to actually do this)
<joaopinto> what's the nick from charliej ?
<persia> isn't that porthose?
<nxvl> yup
<joaopinto> porthose, knock knock, did you install the build dependencies for the coverfinder package on revu ?
<joaopinto> finally revu is being worked :P
<geser> build dependencies on revu? Did I miss a new feature?
<joaopinto> geser, no, I am asking because I got a compain about a missing dpatch file, when dpatch is on the build depends for the package
<geser> ah
<joaopinto> s/compain/comment
<joaopinto> an offtopic questions, is there any way to force the dns lookups to be performed on the alternate servers even if the first one replies with not found ?
<joaopinto> I need to have two dns servers, internet and lan, both working at the same time
<persia> Probably best to have the local one handle everything, caching and forwarding the rest.
<joaopinto> hum, I don't have acces to any of the servers, you you mean installing a local dns server and setting it up for that ?
<joaopinto> basically I would need to use a dns server based on the domain, there should be an easy way to do it from resolv.conf
<joaopinto> if server.matches("domain.com") use dns.domain.com :P
<joaopinto> on windows I have this dual dns configuration working fine
<geser> joaopinto: re coverfinder: I gave it now a very quick review: do you really need to include dpatch.make and dpatch.mk in debian/rules? Please remove README.Debian if you have no content for it and also mention the license (and upstream author) for the icon (the one from the package)
<joaopinto> geser, no, I don't need both, i need to clean it up
<joaopinto> geser, could you post on the comments, just for the sake of workflow and to do list :)
<joaopinto> I am not "on hands" with the package right now :\
<geser> joaopinto: done
<joaopinto> geser, tks
<Koon> kirkland: I've submitted a couple of universe merges you might be interested in sponsoring... since they also fix the corresponding "status" initscript action. See bug 298043 and bug 296080
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298043 in tomcat5.5 "Please merge tomcat5.5 5.5.26-5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298043
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296080 in update-manager "E:Problem with MergeList /var/lib/dpkg/status" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296080
<Koon> hrm. I mean bug 298080.
<kirkland> Koon: awesome, i'll definitely review for you!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298080 in pure-ftpd "Please merge pure-ftpd 1.0.21-11.4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298080
<Koon> kirkland: btw, is it still necessary to push a lsb-base dependency for the jaunty cycle ? Or we can assume it's present ?
<mok0> ogra, ping
<kirkland> Koon: hmm, it's probably "proper" to add that dependency
<Koon> kirkland: that's what ... I did
<kirkland> Koon: cool
<kirkland> Koon: I'm still working through my inbox this morning, can I review as soon as I'm on top of that?
<Koon> kirkland: sure, no hurry at all. and thx
<ogra> mok0, yes ?
<mok0> ogra: You looked at rasmol last, but I think we can sync instead of merge
<ogra> go ahead if you feel like
<mok0> ogra: ok, thanks
<ogra> i only did an upload for LaserJock iirc
<ogra> he knows more about it than i do
<mok0> ogra: ah, ok. The only delta is the maintainer-munge
<ogra> yeah, sounds like a sane sync candidate then
<mok0> ogra: I think so too :-)
<mok0> ogra: I will process it
<ogra> great, thanks :)
<eMerzh> I'm looking for a review ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman )...if someone could see it... :)
<verwilst> asac: ping
<verwilst> any reason why nspluginwrapper has 1.1.0 for i386 and 1.1.2 for amd64?
<asac> verwilst: not really. would be bug i guess
<verwilst> because 1.1.4 is out, so i would try to package it for my ppa
<verwilst> and then try to package flashplugin-nonfree for amd64 as well :)
<mok0> ugh. Is there a good way to make sbuild cache the packages it get s from the archive?
<persia> mok0, Use an apt-proxy.
<geser> asac, verwilst: P-a-S lists it as amd64 only
<verwilst> asac: my flash is still rather unstable with nspluginwrapper and flash 10, a lot of times, flash just shows a gray area
<mok0> persia: Thanks I will look into that!
<verwilst> which is fixed in 1
<verwilst> in 1.1.4*
<verwilst> i think :)
<verwilst> P-a-S?
<verwilst> hm, so 1.1.0 is i386 only, and 1.1.2 is amd64-only?
<geser> Packages-arch-Specific, a list which packages should be only build on some specific archs
<geser> the buildds try it only to build on amd64 (it might even work on i386)
<geser> but the archive still has the old i386 deb
<persia> There's a bug about that.  The archive-admins don't have very good tools to find packages that are dropped for only some architectures and should be removed from the archive.
<asac> thats really strange
<asac> persia: but how comes that 1.1.0 was built for i386
<asac> ;)
<asac> and 1.1.2 wasnt
<asac> seems like someone tried to be _too_ smart ;)
<persia> asac, I suspect P-a-s permitted i386 for 1.1.0, and then dropped it when 1.1.2 didn't compile.
<verwilst> so, for jaunty we should have 1.1.4 for both archs, correct? ;)
<asac> persia: huh?
<verwilst> i can build it in my ppa to test?
<persia> For some packages I've found binaries from the warty build that were never rebuilt despite regular updates to the package due to poorly timed P-a-s changes.
<asac> persia: 1.1.0 + 1.1.2 was built during intrepid
<persia> asac, OK.  If a package builds, it stays in the archive until manually removed.
<persia> So, when was the P-a-s entry changed?
 * persia is fairly sure it was after 1.1.0 was uploaded.
<asac> persia: not sure. nobody asked me about it
<directhex> with flash 10 64-bit, what still needs nspluginwrapper?
<asac> persia: and it was never intended to be blocked from i386
<verwilst> directhex: i think nspluginwrapper is used to catch flash crashes
<persia> asac, Remember we share P-a-s with debian, so it could have been intended to be blocked in Debian.  Check with the P-a-s team.
<directhex> verwilst, s/catch/cause, but same difference
<verwilst> that way it only crashes nspluginwrapper and not the browser itself
<asac> *sigh*
<asac> how dump
<asac> dumb
<persia> why?
<verwilst> directhex: hehe, true, nspluginwrapper causes quite some crashes by itself
<verwilst> im now running the x86_64 alpha flash 10 without nspluginwrapper to check its stability :)
<directhex> verwilst, my browser currently dies ~10 times a day due to nspluginwrapper, and some sites are unusable - e.g. thedailyshow.com nspluginwrapper instances all die by the time the page finishes loading
<verwilst> directhex: with the gray squares as a result?
<directhex> verwilst, aye
<verwilst> directhex: that bug should be fixed in 1.1.4 :)
<verwilst> i have the same issue :)
<directhex> verwilst, i'll believe it when i see it
<asac_> reconnect
<asac_> 16:03 < asac> persia: why? because i explicitly enabled i386 during intrepid cycle
<asac_> 16:03 < asac> and then someone added it to pas
<verwilst> but still, i don't like yet another layer that can mess up inthere
<asac_> and of course i didnt notice until today when someone complained
<asac_> thats your choice ... and its completely independent
<asac_> from blocking stuff on i386 ;)
<persia> asac, Ah.  I see.  Yeah, interaction with P-a-s can be tricky.
<directhex> verwilst, on my hardy machines i simply gave up & used a 32-bit tarball browser. tempted to do the same on intrepid, until this shining light from adobe appeared
<asac> directhex: not sure if flash can ever be a shining light
<asac> directhex: we need nspluginwrapper 1.1.4
<asac> problem with 1.1.2 and before was that upstream was long dead
<asac> until redhat bugged personally hunt him down
<directhex> asac, never had moonlight crash my browser ;)
<asac> directhex: does moonlight run "in browser" ?
 * verwilst gasps
<directhex> asac, sure.
<asac> directhex: but still its not a heavily used technology so it doesnt say anythignb ;)
<verwilst> directhex: you actually know sites which use it? :)
<directhex> well, there is that
<directhex> but at least it *fails to work* on sites, rather than actively screwing your computer
<verwilst> so why can't we leave out nspluginwrapper for flash 10?
<directhex> verwilst, because 64-bit flash 10 was only posted, in alpha form, this morning
<verwilst> myeah but for i386
<verwilst> directhex: so if flash 10 is final for both platforms, nspluginwrapper can be removed?
<verwilst> what's the "official" stance about this?
<verwilst> or the bigger picture :)
<directhex> ask asac!
<asac> no
<asac> the bigger picture is that we want to keep nspluginwrapper
<asac> flash was never really stable, while nspluginwrapper was .... now nspluginwrapper has some hick-ups mostly because of windowless support
<asac> but that will be sorted and then it will properly protect you against ffox crashes
<asac> verwilst: of course when it natively supports amd64 we will demote nspluginwrapper to suggests/recommends or something
<verwilst> asac: nice
<verwilst> asac: i guess i386 is using nspluginwrapper as well now just to keep the 2 archs in sync
<asac> no .... to as i said. it exists to guard ffox from flash crashes
<asac> i dont want to run flash without it
<verwilst> hm
<asac> and once all current issues are sorted almost everyone wants flash to use it
<verwilst> it causes more crashes here than flash itself currently :)
<verwilst> but maybe 1.1.4 will fix that
<asac> verwilst: I already talked about that above
<asac> disabling windowless mode will probably fix most crashes for you
<verwilst> oh sorry, must have missed that
<verwilst> your name is just so light here, can barely read it ;)
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/73375/
<asac> verwilst: irssi in terminal?
<verwilst> asac: pidgin :)
<asac> cant help there ;)
<asac> should be readable
<verwilst> hehe
<asac> at least you can probably fix it in UI
<verwilst> well it's readable.. but it's a very light blue-ish
<verwilst> easy to overlook :)
<asac> just look for the empty spots ;)
<verwilst> anyways, what does that windowless stuff do?
<verwilst> (practically :) )
<verwilst> i think the "Fix XEMBED support" will fix a lot of my issues
<verwilst> since most of the time i just see grey squares
<verwilst> and only a full firefox restart can get me my flash back then :)
<handschuh> slytherin: ping
<emgent> omg i love adobe.. libflash 64bit is out..
<eMerzh> if someone has again some times to re-review my package :p (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman)
<NCommander> wow
<NCommander> wait
<NCommander> 64-bit flash plugin?
<NCommander> O_O!
 * NCommander thinks he sees hell freezing over
<hyperair> NCommander: WHERE
<NCommander> Holy ****
<NCommander> I found it
<NCommander> http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
<jrib> emgent: you "love adobe" ?  Why?
<hyperair> ...oh my god
<NCommander> 64-bit plugin O_O;;
<jrib> meh
 * hyperair seriously considers trying out ubuntu x64
<NCommander> It works
<NCommander> O_O;
<jrib> haha crashed my epiphany
<handschuh> I get a great segmentation fault
<jrib> yup
<jrib> crashes on some flash.  Google video seems to do it
<NCommander> It works great here for me
 * NCommander submits to Slashdot
<jrib> NCommander: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5122859998068380459&hl=en
 * jrib puts nsplug to work again
<NCommander> Works fine here
<NCommander> jrib, ^
<NCommander> I thought Google Video was defunct
<james_w> Koon: are you not a MOTU yet?
<Koon> james_w: heh... no.
<james_w> Koon: please consider applying :-)
<Koon> james_w: I decided to suck up sponsor time a little more :)
<Koon> james_w: I do. Should be applying really-soon-now[tm]
<james_w> great
<james_w> Koon: I'm looking at pure-ftpd, I see you forwarded the status change, thanks. Have the other things applicable to Debian been forwarded? I can't see them in a quick scan of the bug list.
<hyperair> in the case of cdbs, does install: get called before or after dh_install does?
<hyperair> install:: i mean
<Koon> james_w: the RFC2640 stuff and the wrapper options are already filed
<persia> hyperair, The named overrides run after the internals.  You probably want to read the "Custom Overrides" part of the CDBS documentation again.
<hyperair> persia: thanks
<james_w> Koon: cool. It would be nice to file TearDown and /var/run/ as well
<Koon> james_w: does debian take TearDown patches ?
<james_w> Koon: I'm in the process of sponsoring anyway, it doesn't look well maintained
<james_w> Koon: they will.
<james_w> Koon: implemented the way you have, not the old "multiuser" way
<hyperair> persia: so if i do install/foo:: should i be modifying debian/foo or debian/tmp?
<james_w> Koon: I can dig out a link to the debian-devel@ discussion if needed
<persia> hyperair, I can't answer that question without a *lot* more background information.  Test it and see.
<Koon> james_w: about /var/run, I was about to file it when I found that there was something in debian/rules that was creating the directory... so that patch mught be overkill
<hyperair> persia: it's one hell of a long build, so i'd rather get it right on the first try ><
<persia> Koon, Some people run /var/run as tmpfs even in Debian.  It's worth checking for existence and creating if absent at runtime (which is safe when installed in any case)
<Koon> persia: ah ok, thanks for pointing that out.
<persia> hyperair, In that case, read the documentation, and note in which categories your package falls to determine the right names.
<persia> Koon, Just do it with an existence test, and don't wipe it if it's there to avoid stomping on the default Debian config.
<hyperair> persia: ..which part. i've read it over and over and i still can't figure out whether i'm supposed to modify debian/tmp or debian/foo
<persia> I forget :(
<Koon> james_w: I'll push the two bugs tomorrow morning. And yes, I could use a link to a debian-devel post to justify the TearDown bug
<Koon> james_w: I'll also push a wishlist bug for the debconf preference. The last one is a *inetd* Suggests that should probably be dropped if it's the only remaining delta.
<james_w> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/08/msg00030.html
<james_w> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/07/msg00198.html
<Koon> james_w: noted, thx !
<james_w> there's not really one mail that you can reference to give the whole picture
<Koon> it's just to show the potential maintainer (?) it's not an Ubuntu-only thing :)
<james_w> "there was a discussion on debian-devel and no-one came up with a good reason not to" is kind of my justification
<james_w> anyway, uploaded, thanks for your contribution
<Koon> and thanks for uploading :)
<Koon> back tomorrow for more adventures.
<webtech_m33> so who takes care of mailscanner?
<mok0> james_w: I watched your video tutorial on bazaar packaging last night. Nice!
<joaopinto> can someone nuke the coverfinder package on REVU ?
<slytherin> joaopinto: what happened?
<joaopinto> slytherin, lost the interest on it
<slytherin> :-)
<joaopinto> I am going to finish amoebax, then pick a more usefull package, maybe lives
<bddebian> Heya gang
<slytherin> joaopinto: ping NCommander or RainCT for nuking the package.
<joaopinto> ok
<geser> Hi bddebian!
<slytherin> bddebian: geser: hi
<bddebian> Heya geser, slytherin
<geser> Hi slytherin
<slytherin> can anyone help me modify this watch file so that it matches OmegaT_x.y.z_Source.zip but not OmegaT_x.y.z_Beta_Source.zip - http://paste.ubuntu.com/73423/
<joaopinto> does anyone know if there is a tool which allows to stream a terminal session to a web page ? I mean, something text based, not a video streamer
<joaopinto> it would be nice for packaging lessons
<bddebian> slytherin: OmegaT_([\d.]+)_Source.zip
<slytherin> bddebian: let me try
<slytherin> bddebian: should it be [\d\.] instead of [\d.]?
<geser> no, . looses its special meaning inside []
<slytherin> ok
<joaopinto> can someone review/advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amoebax ?
<slytherin> I get - no matching hrefs for watch line :-(
<handschuh> slytherin: I updated the comments @ uiflite .. take a look whenever you want to  :-)
<slytherin> handschuh: some confusion, is it related to -looks or -forms?
<handschuh> slytherin: just the author is the same person
<bddebian> slytherin: Though you do need: OmegaT_([\d.]+)_Source\.zip
<slytherin> handschuh: I mean, I asked why you can't update jgoodies-looks and you reply that it has nothing to do with jgoodies-forms. So I am confused.
<slytherin> bddebian: that shouldn't make difference in this case.
<handschuh> slytherin: indeed is has (programatically) nothing to do with forms or looks
<slytherin> bddebian: I did that change and it works. Now I am wondering if previous error was due to connection problem.
<handschuh> slytherin: the author has a commercial uif-package, and uiflite contains some recources of it
<slytherin> handschuh: hmm, can you talk with upstream and see if the author is willing to make a separate source package. I mean what happens if in future he stops publishing it as part of -looks.
<handschuh> slytherin: ok I will do that
<slytherin> bddebian: looks like last error was indeed due to connection problem.
<slytherin> any shell script used by get-orig-source target should have execute permissions, right?
<iulian> james_w: Hey. About the svk merge... I don't really get what you mean. The 'intrepid patch' from bug #292793 was already uploaded to Debian.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292793 in supertux "SuperTux bugs after upgrade to 8.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292793
<iulian> Sorry, it's bug #282793
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/282793/+text)
<iulian> Bleah
<iulian> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/svk/+bug/282793
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282793 in svk "Unsatisfied dependencies in SVK" [High,Fix released]
<james_w> iulian: you need to re-do the merge to include the new jaunty changelog entry
<james_w> and while doing that I would like you to take the time to double check the fixes
<james_w> debian said "libfile-temp-perl has been merged into perl, remove dependency.", Michael said "I had to upload a modified debdiff that depended on perl, vs perl-modules (which is the correct fix). "
<james_w> without looking at diffs there appears to be a bit of a discrepancy there
<james_w> I would like you to confirm that no mistakes were made
<directhex> woo, we're 1/3 of the way there
 * jdong looks at firefox 3.0.4 backport
<jdong> let's see if I can get it out <= 24hrs of -security :)
<iulian> james_w: I'm pretty confused. I have no idea why he mentioned about perl-modules. The debdiff he uploaded doesn't mention anything about perl-modules. The debdiff is pretty the same as the one which is already in Debian.
<NCommander> jdong, did I hear backport?
<slytherin> jdong: backport to which Ubuntu version?
<directhex> sideport!
<iulian> james_w: I'll re-do the merge to see exactly what's going on.
<jdong> slytherin: gutsy
<jdong> gutsy-backports has a special side-by-side install version of firefox-3.0
<slytherin> ahh
<jdong> I felt bad for leaving it at 3.0~beta3 for several months before 3.0.3 so this time I'll make up for it with a responsive backport :)
<slytherin> :-)
<NCommander> jdong, wait, sideport? How'd you do that?
<jdong> NCommander: coordination with the Mozilla team :)
<jdong> NCommander: based off the old sideport packaging in gutsy of what used to be trunk at the time.
<joaopinto> NCommander, can you please nuke the coverfinder packager on REVU ? Thanks
<NCommander> jdong, I mean with a sideport, did you backport it as a new source package or?
<jdong> NCommander: firefox-3.0 source packages already existed in gutsy (non-backports)
<NCommander> ah
<jdong> they were just really really really old snapshots
<jdong> I made it a lesser and lesser old snapshot
<jdong> then ff-3.0 became the default in Gutsy
<jdong> so I cherry-unpicked out the changes that made it the default
<ScottK> jdong: Hardy
<jdong> sorry, meant to say hardy
<eMerzh> i m looking for comments or advocate for sqliteman thanks a lot (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman )
<james_w> iulian: I agree, the changelog entry is confusing. Please just propose a new diff including the jaunty changelog entry
<joaopinto> can someone review/advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amoebax ?
<james_w> NCommander: your svk changelog entry clouded the issue, as it states you did something different to what you actually did.
<NCommander> james_w, I'm aware of that :-/. I did originally do what I did w/ svk, then I changed it and forgot to update the changelog.
<NCommander> before I uploaded
<james_w> iulian: also, when merging something that fixes an Ubuntu bug please don't add the "LP: #21345" to the "Merge from Debian" line, it's not very clear about what is going on. Please instead add a line explaining how the bug was fixed and add the "LP:" there.
 * slytherin starts a pbuilder build for omegat and ends the day.
<iulian> james_w: OK. I now don't have to mention bug 282793 in the changelog anymore, is this correct?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282793 in svk "Unsatisfied dependencies in SVK" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282793
<james_w> iulian: correct, just a bit of advice for the future
<iulian> Sure, thanks.
<jdong> oh WHAT THE **** TAR.
<jdong> that's just unfair.
<jdong> did anyone else know that tar checks whether or not you are writing to /dev/null?
<jdong> and if so, it only does enough work to print out the filelist?
<iulian> james_w: I just mention the bug I reported to the "Merge from debian" line?
<iulian> james_w: And again, in this case I believe is not worth it.
<james_w> iulian: just list your merge bug in the "Merge from Debian" line
<iulian> Right
<james_w> any other Ubuntu bugs fixed in Debian in the version you are merging should get their own line
<iulian> Yup
<directhex> okay, i wasn't completely correct - i have a completely screwed text console on this dell. i'll try vga= lines
<didrocks> Hi everyone. I have a merge that fixes two LP bugs. I added it in the changelog next to the revelant lines (java-wrappers accordingly. (LP: #280433, #229032)) which is a "debian change". Is it correct? cf http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m284c4256
<iulian> james_w: I attached the debdiff to the bug report. Please test it to see if the package installs correctly because when I try to apt-get build-dep svk here, it gives me an error (E: Build-Depends-Indep dependency for svk cannot be satisfied because no available versions of package libfile-temp-perl can satisfy version requirements).
<iulian> james_w: Looking at debian bug 497130 it seems that libfile-temp-perl
<ubottu> Debian bug 497130 in libfile-temp-perl "Obsolete package: functionality has moved to perl-modules" [Serious,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/497130
<iulian> ... is provided in perl-modules.
<ScottK> iulian: It is.
<iulian> We already depend on perl >=5.10 which is provided in perl-modules. So that shouldn't be a problem.
<ScottK> iulian: You to build-dep on perl-modules directly IIRC.
<ScottK> There's a versioned provides issue in sbuild.
<iulian> ScottK: Do you recommend to build-dep on perl-modules?
<NCommander> ScottK, I thought you just build-dep on Perl
<NCommander> That's what I did to fix svk
<ScottK> Dunno.  Look at the Intrepid changes for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mime-tools
 * ScottK is on the phone.
<iulian> NCommander: Well, I tried that but it seems that is not working, see the above error.
<joaopinto> can someone review/advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amoebax ?
<ScottK> That's the same issue fixed in that package.
<iulian> I wonder how nxvl got it working.
<didrocks> â¦ so, can I assume that mentionning the LP bug numbers next to the debian description is correct in case of merge? :)
<iulian> james_w, NCommander: Should we add a build-dep on perl-modules as well?
<NCommander> iulian, you shouldn't have to perl depends on perl-modules O_o;
<iulian> Well, yea, you're right but why it didn't work?
<iulian> Hmm
<NCommander> Strange
<directhex> gah. summon the fail whale!
 * NCommander raises his hands. The whale falls on directhex 
<directhex> NCommander, let's say you had a laptop. if you just let intrepid boot, then it looks fine from start to finish, until you hit ctrl-alt-f1, at which point you see nothing bit sparkly garbage until you go back to ctrl-alt-f7
<directhex> NCommander, alternatively, you set a vga=foo line in menu.lst - which fixes the consoles, but makes usplash look like ass
<NCommander> o_o;
<directhex> a 1280x800 console looks nice - a stretched, glitchy usplash does not
<joaopinto> NCommander, can you nuke coverfinder from REVU ?
<NCommander> joaopinto, link
<joaopinto> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=coverfinder
<NCommander> joaopinto, why do you want it nuked?
<joaopinto> NCommander, because I am no longer interested in packaging it
<NCommander> Ok, fair enough
<NCommander> joaopinto, nuked
<joaopinto> tks
<directhex> NCommander, now, as best i can read it, usplash ought to be overridable either by having a widescreen theme (which identifies itself as wide), or by forcing some usplash params on the command line (where?!)
<NCommander> directhex, you can set the resolution it needs in /etc/usplash.conf
<directhex> see, why isn't that file in the SEE ALSO of "man usplash"?
<NCommander> directhex, file a bug
<directhex> i shall!
<directhex> okay, so it still looks bolloxed if i set 1280x800 in the file and a 1280x800 console
<directhex> perhaps 1024x768 works
<directhex> okay, if usplash.conf is smaller than vga=, then it works, but is offset a little. that's the best i've had so far
<directhex> i get my high-res text consoles, and usplash looks normal. if swinging a bit to the left
<directhex> sigh. i really don't want to work on a C-based app, but usplash clearly needs LARTing
<iulian> Hmm, when you apt-get build-dep $pkg, you'll install all build-dependencies of the package from the current version.
<iulian> So when I apt-get build-dep svk, I'll install libfile-temp-perl as well.
<leonel> ScottK: I'll make a single debdiff  with  a entry for every patch in debian patches   but ..  I'm missing how to name the possible CVE that we are fixing
<iulian> Perhaps this explains why I got that error.
<iulian> NCommander, james_w: ^^
<james_w> iulian: it uses information from the Sources.gz
<NCommander> iulian, if this is SVK,I don't think its been accepted intoupdates yet
<james_w> I don't know if it uses it from the installed package as well
<iulian> Yup, so I still install libfile-temp-perl when I run that command. I'm trying to install the build-deps manually and seeing if I can get it to work.
<jcastro> ok, who here is a relatively new contributor who has sent patches upstream?
<jcastro> looking for a volunteer!
<ScottK> leonel: I don't know that there are CVEs for these.  You might look in the debian/changelog of Debian's updates for Etch.
<leonel> ok
<leonel> if there's no cve I'll name the  patch
<leonel> thanks
<ScottK> That's good.
<iulian> NCommander: Oh, no, it's hasn't been accepted into -updates yet, even though the bug had the 'Fix Released' status.
<NCommander> iulian, its fixed release in Jaunty
<NCommander> Intrepid is still marked "In Progress"
<iulian> NCommander: No, it wasn't. Someone marked it as "Fix Released".
<iulian> See the activity log.
<NCommander> Strange
<NCommander> Whoever did shouldn't have
<iulian> Indeed.
<joaopinto> can someone review/advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amoebax ?
 * iulian yawns
<iulian> james_w: Yaay! It worked. Feel free to upload now.
<Yasumoto> Hey guys, question about changelogs + merges: Should I just copy-paste the changes from the -ubuntu1 to ubuntu-x versions, then check each to see if they're in the plain debian packages?
<james_w> iulian: done, thanks.
<iulian> james_w: OK, we'll now just need the 2nd ACK which is the final one from a SRU member.
 * iulian looks for a SRU member.
<mok0> I am writing a watch file, but the remote web server does not allow read access to the src directory where the sources are stored. Any tips on how to work around this?
<handschuh> mok0: could you give us the project url?
<mok0> http://www.theseus3d.org/src
<mok0> You see, uscan can't fetch the list of available tarballs
 * james_w wants Thierry to become a MOTU so that no-one has to sponsor tomcat :-)
<handschuh> mok0: well even if you could, the download does not contain any version number
<handschuh> mok0: so I think the only thing you could do is write the get-orig-source rule with a fixed version-number
<handschuh> :-/
<mok0> handschuh: I have written to upstream asking him to put a href to the versioned tarball in index.html
<handschuh> mok=: oh, of course that would be the best! good luck
<mok0> handschuh: thx
<handschuh> s(=/0
<mok0> james_w: I'd like to take a look at the lvm2 repo that you "play" with in the video. Where is it published?
<mok0> james_w: I am interested in seeing how the branches are organized
<mok0> handschuh: what's the status of ballontips?'
<kumy> hi, can someone revu my frogd package ? It's available there http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=frogd . frogd is a daemon for Unix systems to use the Froggy temperature and humidity sensors sold on http://www.froggyhome.com. I've also written & included few patches. thanks in advance ! :)
<james_w> mok0: it's published nowhere currently
<handschuh> mok0: it has been accepted by motu!  :-)  its currently also in the debian mentors queue
<handschuh> mok0: thanks again for your patience
<mok0> james_w: ah. I need some more basic info on packaging using bzr, there are some things still not clear to me
<mok0> handschuh: congrats! Your first package in Ubuntu!
<mok0> kumy: I will take a look
<handschuh> mok0: thanks. hopefully not the last one (there is already a new one at revu, but there is a question to discuss with upstream first)
<kumy> <mok0>thanks!
<kumy> mok0
<jimcooncat> can someone point me to a good howto on gpg signing my personal repository? My googling's getting me nowhere on this.
<mok0> kumy: Whoa, french version of the GPL, never seen that before :-)
<mok0> kumy: why is the clean target disabled?
<kumy> mok0: in source isn't it ? is it a problem ?
<kumy> mok0: because it conflics with patchsys-quilt.mk
<mok0> kumy: you need the clean target to avoid crud in diff.gz
<mok0> kumy: how "conflicts"?
<joaopinto> can someone review/advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amoebax ?
<joaopinto> I need to setup a timer for this
 * handschuh is reviewing
<joaopinto> handschuh, tks
<iulian> joaopinto: I see that the upstream tarball comes with a .desktop file. Why don't you patch and use it instead of creating another one yourself?
<joaopinto> hum, I don't remember seeing a .desktop file on the beginning
<iulian> joaopinto: It's in the data/ dir.
<joaopinto> is it mandatory to use a patch system ?
<iulian> joaopinto: You're not allowed to change anything outside debian/.
<joaopinto> iulian, I am referring to keep the change on the build diff.gz
<joaopinto> the last time I have read the wiki, using a patch system was recommended but not mandatory
<joaopinto> actually I should have sent the new desktop file to upstream :\
 * handschuh has also commented sth on joaopintos package
<iulian> It's good that the upstream comes with a .desktop file. If I was you, I would have patched the .desktop file, send it upstream and then drop in my next upload.
<iulian> joaopinto: Yes, please do.
<mok0> kumy: Do you really need to use debconf?
<joaopinto> but well, for now, to get the package ready, I am going to patch it
<kumy> mok0: it's not really important... default values should work fine, but some parameters needs to be personalized like current altitude, or connected serial port...
<joaopinto> handschuh, didn't understood the "4) debian/amoebax.xpm
<joaopinto> Deliver this file as a patch if its not in the upstream version. "
<joaopinto> what is wrong on providing the xpm on /debian ?
<handschuh> joaopinto: its the same as iulian said: you are not allowed to add files outside of the debian dir
<mok0> kumy: I understand...
<joaopinto> handschuh, the .xpm is not outside the debian/ folder
<handschuh> joaopinto: oh sorry - i missed that
<joaopinto> :P
<mok0> kumy: personally, I dislike being asked stuff when upgrading and installing
<joaopinto> the .desktop does make sense because I duplicating upstream with a fixed version
<iulian> joaopinto: You have the .xpm icon in the debian/ directory but I see data/amoebax.svg usr/share/pixmaps
<ScottK> Questions should only be absolutely needed ones.
<kumy> mok0: yes, but you may have to personalize it the first time... it could also be the user resposability to think about that. i'm open, what the best way ?
<mok0> kumy: let's not worry about that, for now
<kumy> mok0: ok
<iulian> joaopinto: Ah, right, the tarball does not come with a .xpm icon.
<mok0> kumy: I will comment now on revu now. At the moment, I am on my mac laptop and can't check the application and installation. I will look at that later, but there are some things for you to do...
<joaopinto> hum I have removed the .xpm now, should it be provided ?
<joaopinto> isn't the .svg sufficient ?
<kumy> mok0: ok, for the daemon to work properly you should have a frog device!
<joaopinto> iulian, about the .xpm ...
<iulian> joaopinto: I'm not sure if the .svgs are the right format to use. I suggest you to keep the .xpm icon and install it in /usr/share/pixmaps.
<joaopinto> iulian, I noted now that the intial review asked me to not use the pixmap
<mok0> kumy: yes I should!
<joaopinto> I am going to leave the .xpm out, just to have a shorter diff :P
<iulian> joaopinto: Right, I saw that comment. If norsetto said to use the .svg one, use it.
<joaopinto> fixes applied, testing rebuild, and reuploading
<iulian> My knowledge about icons are a bit rusty.
<kumy> mok0: thaks for your revu. I'll work on it.
<joaopinto> I hope the first package provides me some motivation for more :P
<iulian> I should really go to bed now.
<iulian> G'night.
<joaopinto> handschuh, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages states "* Initial Ubuntu package (LP: #242910)"
<joaopinto> handschuh, who is correct :P ?
<joaopinto> handschuh, what do you mean by hints to the files ? I do provide the author names on debian/copyright
<handschuh> joaopinto:well ... all the packages I have looked at are writing "Initial release" which fits better, I think
<handschuh> joaopinto: look at the format ... it is not correct
<joaopinto> url please
<handschuh> joaopinto: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
<handschuh> joaopinto: at section copyright
<joaopinto> handschuh, I don't have the names/emails for each author, and that example on the guide does not mention how list the copyrigh for different files
<handschuh> joaopinto: yes, just don't divide - simply add them all without division into files
<joaopinto> handschuh, if I don't add the filenames, how is the read to expect for which components does the license applies to ?
<joaopinto> the reader
<joaopinto> erm, how is the reader expected to know
<handschuh> joaopinto: if you have different licenses in one project, you have to divide the projects (imho)
<joaopinto> handschuh, uh ? as long as licenses are compatible why do I need to do that ? That is very common among open source software
<jdong> that's not true, handschuh
<jdong> the situation is quite tricky when a package is governed by several different licenses that are hard to figure out which applies to which, and who holds the copyrights, etc.
<handschuh> jdong: no? well anyways, thats not what joaopinto mentioned
<jdong> I ran into this problem dealing with debian/copyright on mpeg4ip
<joaopinto> I really don't see the point of adding copyright owners on a big list, without a clear description for which file does the copyright applies to
<jdong> joaopinto: see the debian/copyright in mpeg4ip and see if that provides a useful example
<joaopinto> I mean, when you have a major part copyrighed from one party, and 1 or 2 files copyrighted by another party
<jdong> it's (!) 363 lines long
<handschuh> joaopinto: you do deliver the source ... if someone is interested in it, they just look at the source
<jdong> and I had the package rejected twice by archive admins before being approved.
<handschuh> jdong: sounds messy  :-/
<jdong> so, AFAIK, it is the correct method of handling multiple-copyright aggregate works.
<joaopinto> mpeg4ip does contain sections per components
<joaopinto> I do the same, but for only 3 files
<jdong> that sounds like the correct thing to do, to me.
<jdong> but IANAL nor am I an archive admin, nor do I pretend to know much about how debian/copyright works other than from personal experience.
<handschuh> joaopinto, jdong: lets wait and see if it gets aprooved ... (I really want to know if this is a policy)
<joaopinto> I have added the Upstream section, but will leave the files copyright
<handschuh> joaopinto: if you get advocate, please ping me (i have some packages with the same copyrightissue ... and i just wanted to add the authors to global copyright)
<joaopinto> I will
<handschuh> is there any official page about 2 license in one package?
<handschuh> joaopinto: thanks
<handschuh> s/license/licenses
<joaopinto> I hate license handling :\
<handschuh> joaopinto: with one license, it is easy but with 2 or even more ....
<jdong> joaopinto: yeah we all hate it to some extent but it's something that has to be done
<joaopinto> I hope I have the stomach for it with lives, since it reuses some libs/code
<joaopinto> jdong, actually I would prefer it done by law people, not by developers :P
<jdong> joaopinto: haha well said people are hard to come by :)
<joaopinto> I know, we are cheaper :P
<jdong> and blindly distributing software without attention to the licensing details sure won't lead anyone down a good road :)
<joaopinto> most people do not care about such licensing details, so it is more from an enterprise/comercial perspective
<joaopinto> not even copyright owners care about it, unless it damages it somehow
<joaopinto> time to sleep
<binarymutant> if anyone has any time to review my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm, I would appreciate it very much. Thanks :)
<joaopinto> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4044 <- new upload <- Please advocate
<joaopinto> we look spammers :D
<joaopinto> hum, I was supposed to be sleeping
<binarymutant> not part of the Eastern Standard Tribe I take it?
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: er, i'd say you're confused here
<Hobbsee> +   Note: This should happen automatically when you run
<Hobbsee> +   dpkg-source -x on a dpatch source package.
<Hobbsee> + * To generate the fully patched source, in a form ready for
<Hobbsee> +   editing, that would be built to create Debian packages, run:
<Hobbsee> +
<Hobbsee> +     dpatch apply-all
<Hobbsee> (other way around)
<Hobbsee> dpkg-source -x applies the .diff.gz to the tarball and such - doesn't do anything with debian/patches/
<Hobbsee> unless dpatch does something very whacky and non-standard?
<Hobbsee> + * To remove source modifications that are currently being
<Hobbsee> +   applied when building the package, run:
<Hobbsee> ^ that's not true either, iirc.
<Hobbsee> dpatch doesn't run dh_clean, and clean any temporary files and such - it only reverses the patches that have been applied previously
<mok0> Is it possible to send a message to this channel from a local script?
<Hobbsee> mok0: errr, depends how you do it
<Hobbsee> mok0: if you connect an irssi instance, and run the script thru that, yes.
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: review posted :)
<binarymutant> thanks Hobbsee, I am very confused about dpatch
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: dpatch *only* takes the stuff from debian/patches, and does stuff with it
<Hobbsee> either applying it, or removing it
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: how are you confused by it?
<pochu> what was that command to make big letters with ascii symbols?
<directhex> pochu, figlet
<directhex> pochu, or the superior alternative: toilet
<mok0> pochu: or banner
<pochu> wow, thanks!
<directhex> because the archive needs three different ways to make the word "dongs" huge for posting on irc
<directhex> other useful packages to consider include "sl"
<directhex> which is unrelated, but just as useful
<mok0> directhex: of course, there is also the utility "vi"
<directhex> mok0, vi also belongs in the "worthless" category ;)
 * Hobbsee thought a 00list was mandatory for dpatch, if you wanted patches to actually get applied.
<mok0> directhex: ah, another "nano" fanboy
<directhex> Hobbsee, so did i
<directhex> mok0, o_o my secret is revealed?
<mok0> Hobbsee: isn't it?
<binarymutant> Hobbsee, I'm confused at what you mean in the review, I have 00list, are you saying my rules file is wrong? Because I did have trouble with that
<Hobbsee> mok0: i'm not sure.  I'm fairly certain that it is.
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: no, not yours - that was joaopinto's :)
<Hobbsee> mok0: i know i've got caught before with other types of patch systems for that.
<mok0> Hobbsee: I think so too... if 00list is not there, nothing will be done
<Hobbsee> yeah
<directhex> and lintian will beat you with a stick
<Hobbsee> lintian hasn't mentioned it
<mok0> ouch
<mok0> sounds nasty
 * Hobbsee gets out the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢
 * Hobbsee tickles mok0 with it
<mok0> oh noes
<Hobbsee> Right.  Done two reviews today now.  \o/
<binarymutant> Hobbsee, o sorry, but still confused on the review. My rules are not right? because it applies the patch when being built and when cleaning the package it deapplies it...
<mok0> Hobbsee: ... now if only all MOTUs would do that...
<mok0> binarymutant: sounds right
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: no, your rules are right.  It's just your documentation at README.source is wrong.
<mok0> binarymutant: when you get dpatch to work, go learn about dpatch-edit-patch.... soooo cool
<Hobbsee> +   Note: This should happen automatically when you run
<Hobbsee> +   dpkg-source -x on a dpatch source package.
<Hobbsee> ^ binarymutant you can get rid of those lines completely - because a) they're wrong, and b) whoever reading it will have already done that step anyway, so doesn't need the documentation on it
<Hobbsee> + * To remove source modifications that are currently being
<Hobbsee> +   applied when building the package, run:
<Hobbsee> and for that, i'd suggest changing it to something like "To undo patches that have been previously applied to the source package, run:"
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: if you build in pbuilder, it will automatically add and remove patches for you (assuming you've done it right)
<Hobbsee> so you don't really need to worry
<binarymutant> Hobbsee, Oh okay, I just copied the the readme.source entirely. I'll edit it.
<binarymutant> why doesn't dpkg-source -x apply my patches though? shouldn't it?
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: oh, where'd you copy it from?
<binarymutant> Hobbsee, debian policy I think
<mok0> binarymutant: patches are applied when you build the binary
<mok0> binarymutant: ... not when running dpkg-source -x, that only unpacks the source package
<binarymutant> mok0, I know, but shouldn't dpkg-source -x apply it as well? or no
<mok0> binarymutant: no
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: no, that only unpacks the source. it does nothing to the binary.
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: if it did, you'd find it kinda difficult to get the unpatched source.
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: the way it works is this:
<binarymutant> oh okay, thanks for the review Hobbsee :)
<directhex> dpkg-source just untars your orig.tar.gz, and then applies your diff.gz to it - diff.gz contains your debian/patches, but doesn't apply those patches itself
<binarymutant> I need to find where I got that readme.source
<Hobbsee> you get bits of source, you unpack that source, you make any changes you want to, you tell it to build in pbuilder.  The building then applies the patches, builds the package, then removes the patches again, so you get back to a pristine source.
<binarymutant> I was confused by this http://wiki.debian.org/debian/patches, under proposed improvements it says dpkg-source should apply patches
<binarymutant> I guess it's still being proposed
<crimsun> superm1: yes, per-codec table.
<superm1> crimsun, could there be more granularity to it though to allow for platforms that share codecs, at least until proper support to read EQ values from the BIOS are in ALSA?
<mok0> binarymutant: ah, yes that is only proposed.
<azeem> I think it's implemented as well, but should not be used yet
<mok0> binarymutant: It would eliminate certain problems if dpkg-source applied patches, but it doesn't now
<mok0> azeem: it's implemented?
<binarymutant> ok I'll edit that out of my readme.source, thanks everyone for the help and thanks Hobbsee for the review
<Hobbsee> binarymutant: you're welcome
<mok0> :-)
<azeem> mok0: AIUI, recent versions of dpkg-source can unpack those new source package formats - not sure whether anything can generate them yet
<crimsun> superm1: how much more granularity do you need beyond per-codec?
<directhex> iirc everything supports the new source formats except the debian archive, e.g. dak
<mok0> azeem: There is also a lot of talk about using VCSes for patch management,
<mok0> patch & package
<superm1> crimsun, well perhaps if you can go off of HAL output of the platform if the information is provided, otherwise use the stored default codec information
<superm1> crimsun, say maybe using system.hardware.product and system.hardware.vendor
<binarymutant> should https://wiki.edubuntu.org/README.sourceHowTo be changed to reflect that dpkg-source -x doesn't apply patches? I think I remember seeing these on a debian site as well
<superm1> crimsun, if nothing else it's planning ahead.  i know that until EQ support is in, good default values on at least two laptops sharing a common codec aren't the same and cause resonance on the chassis
<crimsun> superm1: same revisions of the same codec?
<superm1> crimsun, yes
<crimsun> superm1: right, it's just a minor step.  I presume you're referring to the STAC9*, because I know at least ALC88[23] have the same problem.
<superm1> crimsun, yes
<crimsun> I find that we need at least SSID and codec (and its revision)
<mok0> binarymutant: let's check it out in details
<superm1> crimsun, at least in the cases i've seen, the hardware was developed simultaneously, with a few enhancements to the chassis for some other hardware that landed in it.  consequently they had a lot of similar or even identical components, but ended up with different values that got read from the BIOS in the windows driver for setting up the EQ in vista.
<binarymutant> mok0, k
<directhex> sniff sniff, do i smell software pin assignments?
<directhex> i still have slightly odd sound behaviour on my imac in the office
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-18
<mok0> directhex: this is not the right channel for OSX support  ;)
<crimsun> superm1: yeah, it has been very fun gleaning that from the Windows INFs :-)
<directhex> mok0, on ubuntu, of course. it's been running ubuntu since dapper
<mok0> binarymutant: check with jmarsden, who wrote the text
<mok0> directhex: heh
<cyberix> How do I get something into main?
<directhex> cyberix, is there a compelling reason for canonical to give it commercial support?
<binarymutant> mok0, you think it should be changed to? or am I just crazy?
<directhex> mok0, http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/IMG_0120.JPG
<cyberix> directhex: ttf-mph-2b-damase would add to main the missing fonts that are required for being able to display wikipedia.org front page correctly
<mok0> directhex: that's an Apple monitor alright
<directhex> s/monitor/computer/
<mok0> hehe
<mok0> binarymutant: I think you need to check with jmarsden and ask what the meaning is
<binarymutant> will do mok0
<mok0> binarymutant: thx
<stgraber> directhex: Apple computer with Microsoft keyboard and mouse running on Linux, funny mix
<directhex> stgraber, yes! ^_^
<james_w> universe's sponsor queue is back to being smaller than main's
<james_w> let's try and keep it that way :-)
<Hobbsee> good effort!
<Hobbsee> james_w: got any specs you want to discuss at UDS?
<james_w> not really, I'm feeling pretty un-inspired this cycle
<james_w> apart from bzr stuff of course
<james_w> I always enjoy joining in to random sessions though
<Hobbsee> james_w: well, the bzr stuff should probably get added to the tracker, so it does get scheduled, and so people can subscribe to it, and get less clashes.  Please do it ASAP :)
<james_w> Hobbsee: yeah, I should. Not sure what specs it will have yet though :-)
<james_w> I'll work on that tomorrow, thanks for the reminder
<james_w> Hobbsee: what specs are you proposing?
<Hobbsee> james_w: think quickly.  You can always refine later.  ;)
<Hobbsee> james_w: probalby one on retaining ubuntu developers, and making it easier to contribute
<james_w> good ones, I'd like to contribute to those
 * directhex wonders if anyone at UDS will be in a position to mention the ubuntu-archive-friendly consequences of the mono 2.0 transition currently underway
<lifeless> what consequences?
<directhex> lifeless, less disk consumption, mainly
<nellery> StevenK: do you recall why libxi-dev was added to build-depends in your upload to
<nellery> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anyremote
<StevenK> nellery: Because it uses headers from it, I believe.
<directhex> debian NEW permitting, anyway
<nellery> StevenK: ok thanks a lot.
<nellery> james_w: would ^^ answer your question to why libxi-dev was added to build-debs
<nellery> for Bug 298496
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298496 in anyremote "Please merge anyremote 4.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298496
<StevenK> If it #include <X11/extensions/XInput.h> it requires libxi-dev
<james_w> ./src/xemulate.c:#include <X11/Xlib.h>
<james_w> ./src/xemulate.c:#include <X11/extensions/XTest.h>
<james_w> they are the only X11 related includes from a quick grep
<StevenK> And XTest includes XInput
<StevenK> You know, headers being recursive and such? :-)
<lifeless> StevenK: 'if it includes XTest | Xinput'
<lifeless> :)
<james_w> but it doesn't use any symbols from XInput from what I can see
<mok0> Mmmm, armel builds in progress... nice
<Hobbsee> NCommander: poke?
<Hobbsee> right.  Spec added.
<james_w> \sh: please check open sponsor requests before uploading a package.
<james_w> thanks Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> james_w: you're welcome
<handschuh> hmm when did the encoding of the diff files @ revu changed to text/plain ?
 * jdong finishes boiling his blood over unsupported flash installer scripts at the forums.
<jdong> I tried. and I failed. sort of like my recent academic career
<Hobbsee> just nuke the forums.
<ajmitch> sounds good to me
<directhex> jdong, i noticed that thread
<directhex> i wonder WHY i noticed that thread.
<jdong> directhex: yeah I hope the rest of the peanut gallery can see that it's not a great script to be running.
<jdong> I'm through arguing with him.
<directhex> jdong, but using -y with apt is always the right thing to do!
<directhex> and so is using rm -f, just in case you changed those perms for a reason. and using remove/install
<crimsun> jdong: we'll be discussing the future of flashplugin-nonfree at UDS.
<jdong> crimsun: neat. What kind of future, like whether or not we're gonna punt it out of the repository, or better support for it?
<crimsun> jdong: those issues are on the table
<crimsun> (I suspect the discussion will involve hacking nspluginwrapper to not hog cpu, too.)
<jdong> crimsun: very nice. Well I wish the best of success... comparing my Ubuntu experience to OS X on the same system, flash and sound are the two biggest day-to-day discrepancies I see
<crimsun> well, the alpha 64-bit plugin of non-Free Flash is already a huge step forward in lessening the cpu nastiness, but there's quite some ways to go
<TheMuso> jdong: What sound issues do you have?
<jdong> TheMuso: mostly distortion -- blipping sometimes associated with system load
<jdong> it's better when I disable ondemand CPU frequency scaling, dunno if that's placebo effect or not
<TheMuso> jdong: Is your hda codec fully supported in Linux?
<Hobbsee> jdong: ah, another distortion person!
<jdong> TheMuso: it's an ALC885 I believe, iMac 8,1
<jdong> TheMuso: to get any sound I have to set model to mbp3
<TheMuso> jdong: Yeah thats been fixed in later alsa code, i.e 1.0.18 I think so the mbp3 flag is not needed.
<TheMuso> My MacBook Pro is in the same position, although I don't get distortion at all.
<TheMuso> Not that I've noticed anyway.
<jdong> TheMuso: well the last time I used 1.0.18 I had a beautiful kernel panic in alsa code :)
<jdong> so I might hold off for a bit. I'm somewhat gun-shy now
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> jdong: Was that the final 1.0.18 release?
<jdong> TheMuso: yeah
<crimsun> I'm running the 20081116 snapshot with nary a panic.  Where did it splode?
<jdong> Nov  2 18:32:59 droptop kernel: [77439.410052] BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 0000000000000000
<jdong> Nov  2 18:32:59 droptop kernel: [77439.410066] IP: [<ffffffffa066d274>] snd_hda_codec_amp_read+0xc4/0x150 [snd_hda_intel]
<jdong> let me know if the rest is useful to pastebin
<crimsun> yes, the entire thing.  (Please file a bug affecting linux if you haven't.)
<jdong> crimsun: affecting Linux for... a self-compiled alsa 1.0.18 failing?
<crimsun> jdong: good point.  Well, it needs to get looked at somehow.
<jdong> crimsun: fwiw full pastebin at http://paste.ubuntu.com/73630/
<crimsun> jdong: ok.
<jdong> crimsun: at the time I was using Skype
<jdong> it seems like the skype auto-microphone-gain-adjustment feedback loop triggered that call path
<crimsun> TheMuso: I'm looking redoing the source package for alsa-driver.  It's madness ATM.  Will send e-mail to pkg-alsa-devel once I have something less vapourware.
<crimsun> looking at*
<jdong> crimsun: I made an attempt at DKMS'ing alsa-driver...
<jdong> then I realized dkms actually makes you list all the .ko's and where to install them.
<ajmitch> slightly overkill?
<jdong> then it went on a "TODO: perl hack" list and never got touched :D
<jdong> ajmitch: *shrug* guess Dell never had to package something with 50+ .ko's?
<jdong> the Fedora dkms RPM of alsa-driver definitely listed out every .ko and an install path for each.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Ok, I guess what we want to be able to do is track it in git, and pull/merge commits from upstream as we want them.
<jdong> it looked painful.
<ajmitch> especially if they change in a future release
<ajmitch> jdong: besides, the answer to that is Python :)
<TheMuso> DKMS is not the answer for alsa kernel modules.
<jdong> ajmitch: oh they CHANGE depending on ./configure flags :)
<TheMuso> IMO
<crimsun> yeah, I considered dkms some bit ago, and while it makes sense for an upstream vendor with a known subset of codecs to support, it's not feasible at package install.
<crimsun> I even had the usual madness of "oh, let's anticipate which audio devices the user /might/ insert".  Yeah, crack.
<ajmitch> which would include any usb or bluetooth devices?
<crimsun> yeah, like "hda-intel" + "usb-audio" + "snd-bt-sco" and whatnot.  The problem is, what if I hotplug something requiring a more specific driver (e.g., usb-usx2y or usb-caiaq)?
<superm1> snd-bt-sco is still in existence with 2.6.27+ though?
<TheMuso> crimsun: Or you insert a PCI card into a desktop that you want to use, say ice1712/24
<crimsun> TheMuso: precisely
<crimsun> superm1: well, it's still shipped in intrepid
<crimsun> (as in, since this work is going into pkg-alsa-devel, we don't have just Ubuntu kernels to consider)
<TheMuso> That makes things even more hairy.
<crimsun> directhex: does bug 175273 still affect you in a recent Ubuntu release?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 175273 in mjpegtools "Conflicting type definition in mjpeg_types.h" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175273
<crimsun> (bah, should have checked /wi first)
<binarymutant> if anyone has any time on their hands I would appreciate very much an advocation for my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm . Thanks :)
<sjdurfey> i installed Banshee and the restricted codec set from the repos, and i cannot get anything to play, Banshee just gives me an orange box with an "x" in it on every song in my library, anyone have any ideas as to why?
<Hobbsee> did you restart banshee?
<sjdurfey> yeah
<Hobbsee> did you change the address of the library?
<sjdurfey> nope, still the same drive
<Hobbsee> hm.  Then i don't know ;)
<sjdurfey> hehe, damn
<sjdurfey> now, i have to remount the drive manually everytime i restart my machine, and i built my library, restarted, and then remounted, could that have anything to do with it?
<Hobbsee> possibly, if it's given it a different mount point
<mneptok> O:)
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> now we can live free from the threat of impending doom
 * Hobbsee throws mneptok into some hot lava
 * mneptok extrudes an igneous crust
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: there's always impending doom..
<mneptok> yeah, this *IS* -motu
 * mneptok scampers
<ajmitch> mostly harmless
 * mneptok is not to be fed after midnight
<binarymutant> should I just ditch everything after the first paragraph in my readme.source?
<binarymutant> or is dpatchhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/README.sourceHowTo
<jmarsden> binarymutant: Pick the relevant bit of that wiki page for the patch system you are using
<binarymutant> jmarsden, well I was using the entire dpatch example, should I just ditch everything after the first paragraph of it though?
<Hobbsee> oh, so that's where that was from
<jmarsden> binarymutant: It's up to you ... the page was just some examples to help people create the file easily.
<binarymutant> jmarsden, also it's dpatch deapply-all
<jmarsden> Hobbsee: I plead guilty?
 * Hobbsee still doesn't agree with part of it
<jmarsden> Care to propose a fix?
<Hobbsee> jmarsden: something to the effect of: "To undo patches that have been previously applied to the source package, run:"
<mneptok> wininst.exe
<Hobbsee> jmarsden: it's probably a little pedant-ish, but it doesn't fulfil the role of dh_clean, or any of that, iirc.
<jmarsden> Hobbsee: Is it supposed to?  Per Policy 4.1.4 it is supposed to say how to "Remove source modifications that are currently being applied when building the package."
<Hobbsee> jmarsden: well, check with persia, but i thought the only thing it did was undo the patches.
<Hobbsee> maybe it has changed, and i'm out of date
<jmarsden> Right, and those are the only source modifications being made, right?
<persia> Well, depends on the package.  lsdiff -z *.diff.gz is a good way to double-check.
<jmarsden> I was a *total* beginner when I wrote that wiki page, BTW and in many ways I still am one...
<Hobbsee> i wouldn't bet on it
<binarymutant> I think it makes sense the way it is...except for the dpatch unapply-all should be dpatch deapply-all
<persia> mneptok, It's a policy violation to use extensions for programs in the default path.  Please patch your application to use "wininst" instead.
<mneptok> persia: so *that's* why i got a lot of crap for "mnep.tok"
<NCommander> Hobbsee, repoke
<persia> slytherin: nuking doesn't need a REVU Hacker.  Any REVU Admin can do it.
<jmarsden> binarymutant: OK, s/unapply-all/deapply-all/ fix is now applied to the wiki :-)
<binarymutant> very cool jmarsden, I also think your right about the way it reads
<jmarsden> Maybe.  I need to think a bit more about the more philosophical change _Hobsee and _persia seem to be suggesting...
<persia> jmarsden, It's probably better to insert the '_' in the middle :)
<jmarsden> Ah, oops... :)
<jmarsden> Give me props for at least *trying* not to alert you unnecessarily!
<persia> Doesn't matter.  I read everything here anyway, and the other isn't spelled with two 'b's.  Anyway, which philosophical change am I suggesting?
<jmarsden> Well, via Hobb_see, that the "Remove source modifications that are currently being applied when building the package" language which Policy 4.1.4 says the README.source is supposed to document, may not be 100% fulfilled by the stuff I have put in there...
<persia> The key instructions are 1) How to get the source from the unpacked state into a good state for review of the build target, and 2) How to get the source in the state for review of the build target into the preferred state for uploading.
<persia> The fact that this doesn't necessarily get the source into a pristine upstream state is irrelevant.
<jmarsden> OK... so better to keep it simple and leave that part as is, you are hinting?
 * persia hunts for a URL, and actually reviews the document
<jmarsden> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/README.sourceHowTo and http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-readmesource
<persia> I find the language very confusing.
<jmarsden> It's as close to policy as I could get... or that was my intent.
<persia> Essentially, you *don't* want to "generate the fully patched source" before you "modify the source and save those modifications" when following the dpatch or cdbs examples.
<persia> You've covered the base use case for policy, but it's hard to read.
<persia> The quilt example works well, except/unless you want to insert patches into the stack at a different level.
<persia> Also, if I remember the ML discussions about this, there were supposed to be default snippets in quilt, dpatch, CDBS, etc., so debian/README.source could say "This package uses quilt.  Please see /usr/share/doc/quilt/patching-with-quilt for further information".
<persia> I'd be opposed to adding any of the examples to any new packages.
<Elbrus> nellery: ping
<persia> That level of detail is only required if the package constructs it's own patch system, else we have lots of duplicated content in the archives, and need to patch in lots of places if the behaviour of a patch system changes.
<jmarsden> OK.  Would you be opposed to adding them to any of quilt/dpatch/CDBS that don't yet have such examples included?  That was actually a thought of mine at the time I first created the page.
<persia> Elbrus, In nearly all cases, it's better to provide some context with a ping, and often it's better to ask things generally.
<Elbrus> nellery: I am trying to understand why the changes are needed in nedit...
<persia> jmarsden, No, not at all.  I think there's already some work done in Debian to that effect though: it may not be worth duplicating the effort.
 * persia is not entirely up-to-date on this particular issue.
<jmarsden> OK.  I don't see one in dpatch in Intrepid, for example
<persia> Might have gotten caught by the Lenny freeze.  Check Debian VCS.
<persia> (and BTS)
<jmarsden> OK, can do.
<Elbrus> nellery: my version runs on my machine so I wonder if/why the lesstif2 is not enough
<persia> jmarsden, If they don't appear there, submitting good texts as patches to the BTS would probably make sense.  Once there, applything them in Ubuntu is mostly a question of timing.
<jmarsden> OK.  I'm still mroe comfortable in the Ubuntu world than the Debian one... I need to grow up and start learning how to deal with upstream stuff :-)
<Elbrus> persia: sorry, I see.
<Elbrus> was just looking at bug 299318 and try to learn something from it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299318 in nedit "Please merge nedit 1:5.5-3 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299318
 * Elbrus did the QA for Debian on nedit
<persia> Elbrus, Thanks for catching that.  The Maintainer change is clearly a result of cut&paste, and wrong.
<persia> Considering the only change to lesstif2 in Ubuntu is a scrollwheel inversion patch, I don't know why it wouldn't work, and suspect that's leftover cruft as well.
<persia> Elbrus, Are you sure you don't need to build-dep on libxext-dev and libxp-dev ?
<Elbrus> persia: it builds on sid... haven't tested yet on Ubuntu
<persia> Hobbsee, Can you shed any light on this?
<Elbrus> persia: I can try if you want.
<persia> Elbrus, Last change to Ubuntu before the merge was April 2007, so things may have changed :)  Given you recently looked at the package, I suspect you're right.
<Elbrus> persia: well, I just don't want to create regression because of me nosing around...
<Hobbsee> persia: have i modified it?
<persia> Hobbsee, You're the last uploader.
<Hobbsee> oh.  damn.
<persia> Hobbsee, From what Elbrus says, looks like a sync, but I'm hoping you can remember that far back.  The current merge doesn't look carefully tested.
<Hobbsee> oh, of nedit.
<Hobbsee> i was thinking that i didnt' remember lesstif2...
<persia> Right.  The question is about bug #299318
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299318 in nedit "Please merge nedit 1:5.5-3 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299318
<StevenK> Is the bug about update-notifier being broken known?
<persia> It's clearly a bad merge, but whether it should be fixed as a merge or sync'd remains an open question.
<StevenK> (jaunty)root@liquified:~# /usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required.: 8: gettext.sh: not found
<Hobbsee> persia: why is it a bad merge?
<persia> Hobbsee, At least, failed to include maintainer change properly.  Given lesstif2 changelogs, I suspect the motif change may not be required (also based on Elbrus' testing).
<Hobbsee> persia: oh right, his merge. not my changes.
 * Elbrus did not very extensive testing, but at least nedit runs and performs tasks...
<persia> Hobbsee, No.  I'm not criticising your past work in any way.
<Hobbsee> persia: not critism - just still trying to get context on what the question is, how i'm involved, and what actual bit is wrong.  However, i think i've almost accomplished that ;)
<persia> Hobbsee, Yeah.  It's been a while since you last looked at that one :)
<Hobbsee> persia: maintainer change isn't required - it got orphaned after we touched it.
<Elbrus> can I build against jaunty already using pbuilder?
<persia> Elbrus, Certainly.
<Hobbsee> bug 81103
<Elbrus> I get: E: No such script: /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/jaunty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 81103 in nedit "nedit fails to launch with an X error" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81103
<persia> Hobbsee, Right, but we should reflect that in Original Maintainer.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: in what?
<Hobbsee> persia: indeed.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Hm?
<Hobbsee> [15:54] <StevenK> Is the bug about update-notifier being broken known?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: in..intrepid?  jaunty?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Oh. Jaunty
<Hobbsee> StevenK: then yes, i think so.  assuming you mean 'break' by "wanting to upgrade you to intrepid"
<StevenK> Hobbsee: update-notifier, not update-manager
<jmarsden> persia: I can't see a patch for the README.source for dpatch in Debian BTS... where can I find its VCS?  And in general, how can one find a VCS for a given package, come to that -- is there a neat way to know where to find the VCS?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: oh, right.
<Hobbsee> persia: if it runs, and builds, then it's probably fine to drop the changes now.
<StevenK> (jaunty)root@liquified:~# /usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required
<persia> jmarsden, apt-cache showsrc $(package) would have a Vcs-* entry.
<StevenK> .: 8: gettext.sh: not found
<Hobbsee> persia: beyond that, i don't remember specifics
 * Elbrus just remembered reading somewhere you need to add a link to gutsy...
<persia> Hobbsee, Thanks for double-checking.  I'll repurpose the merge, and request the sync.
<jmarsden> persia: Aha, I did apt-cache show not showsrc   Thanks.
<StevenK> Elbrus: Right
 * Elbrus is starting building nedit in jaunty now
<Hobbsee> persia: cool, OK
<jmarsden> binarymutant: dpatch in Jaunty (dpatch 2.0.30) has a default file at /usr/share/doc/dpatch/README.source.gz which you can (and therefore should) point to instead of using text from my wiki page
<persia> sebner, When you get a chance, could you check to see if binfmt_misc solves https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hellboy195 and update the status accordingly?
<Elbrus> persia: nedit build without changes and seems to run exactly like on debian... again: no extensive testing, but writing and saving works
<binarymutant> thanks jmarsden
<jmarsden> No problem.  Now I'll have to see about submitting by CDBS one as a patch to its maintainers, I suppose :-)
<jmarsden> s/by/my/
<hyperair> hi. who maintains revu?
<hyperair> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/feed.py?package=codelite <-- MOD_PYTHON ERROR
<sjdurfey> if i downloaded eclipse from the website, am i also going to need all the dependencies that were required for the version from the repo?
<persia> hyperair, The REVU Hackers maintainer REVU.
<persia> Elbrus, Thanks for checking.  I've requested a sync of your upload to the repos.
<hyperair> persia: and where do i find them?
<persia> hyperair, Usually here.
<persia> sjdurfey, Quite likely, although you'll want to check the upstream website to determine which packages you need.
<sjdurfey> ok, thanks
<hyperair> persia: um so how do i ping them or whatever?
<persia> hyperair, You already have.
<hyperair> uh i did?
<persia> The main issue is that it's night for most of them.  The one awake at this hour is probably either commuting, or in a foul mood due to a late evening of work.
<persia> Yeah.  Most of them ping on "REVU" or "REVU Hackers".
<persia> In general, it's a handy thing to have an alert on a team.
<jmarsden> hyperair: So, you can retry maybe every 4 hours until someone responds :-)
<hyperair> i see
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> what does "REVU Day" mean?
 * persia recommends every 6-8 hours, to avoid annoying people
<persia> It's the day the REVU Coordinator tries to get every MOTU to review some packages.
<hyperair> i see
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning Daniel.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<highvoltage> howdy dholbach and iulian
<dholbach> hi highvoltage
<iulian> Hey highvoltage.
<porthose> g'night all
<hyperair> could someone explain to me what this lintian warning means? W: codelite: possible-unindented-list-in-extended-description
<ScottK> hyperair: Run lintian -v on the package.  That should give you a very detailed explanation.
<hyperair> ScottK: k thanks
<hyperair> ScottK: doesn't seem any more detailed than earlier
<ScottK> OK.  Sorry I'm out the door right now and don't have time to give detailed help.
<wgrant> hyperair: Try -i instead
<hyperair> wgrant: alrighti 'll try that thanks
<soren> hyperair: Could you put the entire control file on pastebin?
<hyperair> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite
<hyperair> soren: it's there
<hyperair> soren: i'm fixing a bunch of lintian errors right now, and that popped up.
<hyperair> soren: http://pastebin.com
<hyperair> shit
<hyperair> wrong url
<soren> hyperair: I see it now.
<persia> hyperair, Package descriptions have a very distinct way to handle lists.
<soren> Right, lintian explains it pretty well.
<soren> And links to debian policy which explains it even better :)
<hyperair> soren: yeah it does, but i don't get it. i don't have any unindented lines!
<soren> It's not indented enough :)
<soren> Read 5.6.13 of debian policy.
<hyperair> soren: eh what?
<hyperair> soren: got a link?
<soren> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html
<persia> hyperair, After removing the indent for the description, you don't have any indent left.
<hyperair> soren:  thanks
<soren> 4 seconds of google. Bam!
<hyperair> persia: i don't understand. what indent?
<soren> hyperair: Have you read 5.6.13 yet?
<hyperair> soren: yeah. but i still don't get what's wrong with my control file =\
<soren> One space at the start of the line (which all of your lines have) just means "this line is part of the extended description).
<hyperair> soren: yes, i know that. i have one space at the start of my lines. so what's wrong?
<persia> hyperair, You have a list that doesn't meet the criteria for lists (second bullet point in the description of the extended description)
<soren> Any application presenting this data is allowed (probably even encouraged) to reformat these lines by removing the linefeeds you added and use something more fitting for the way it's presenting it.
<soren> Obviously, that'll mess up your list.
<hyperair> soren: so what should i do?
<soren> Any line beginning with two (or more) spaces will be left as is.
<hyperair> oh so i should indent it with one more space?
<soren> Yes.
<hyperair> soren: okay thanks
<hyperair> now i just have to figure out how to write manpages
<persia> soren, Not only "encouraged" but "mandated" by policy: "Successive lines of this form will be word-wrapped when displayed."
<hyperair> and then write 5 of them
<hyperair> and figure out a way to shfit /usr/share/codelite/plugins to /usr/lib/codelite/plugins
<soren> persia: "will" makes it a prophecy which in my book is less than a mandate :)
<persia> soren, Was policy proscriptive, I'd agree.  As policy is supposed to be descriptive, I suspect that all current tools do wordwrap.
<hyperair> hmm is there a lintian that won't complain about this? E: codelite_1.0.2432-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file jaunty
<Yasumoto> RAOF:just so you know, almost done with updating the changes for miro
<Hobbsee> hyperair: the jaunty one itself, probably.
<Hobbsee> hyperair: you can just ignore it, though
<soren> hyperair: Yeah, don't worry about that one.
<hyperair> alright
<RAOF> Yasumoto: Cool.  I was wondering about that ;)
<Yasumoto> RAOF: I was down at a Usenix conference repping the SoCal linux expo last week, it through off my schedule
<Yasumoto> sorry :-X
<RAOF> No problem at all, it's not like the deadline's pressing.
<Yasumoto> yeah, true
<Yasumoto> thanks for the advice so far :)
<RAOF> Thanks for taking an interest in Miro.
<hyperair> if i'd like to add a bunch of diversions for a package, should i use dpkg-divert in preinst and postrm or what?
<RAOF> Yeah.
<persia> You should probably try to make the package not need them though.  They are *very* annoying to get right.
<hyperair> ok
<hyperair> persia: well, you see, there's this package i'm thinking of packaging.. which is geany-dark-scheme or something of that sort
<Yasumoto> So to properly update the changelog,I should just walk through the changes from the last ubuntu releases(since the last merge) and double-check if they're in the vanilla debian package?
<hyperair> persia: the thing is that the stuff in it overrides the data files for geany,, but at the same time, without geany, it's useless
<persia> Yasumoto, If you're doing a merge, preserve *all* the previous Ubuntu changelog entries, but then only report on the preserved changes by examining how your package differs from Debian.
<hyperair> persia: any suggestions besides dpkg-divert?
<persia> hyperair, Then surely that's a bug in geany: that it doesn't have a facility to allow for additional data to be added post-install.
<hyperair> persia: unfortunately so. the colour schemes for the files are all in /usr/share/geany, and they have to be overriden if it is to be changed
<Yasumoto> persia: thank you, yeah, I'm working on a merge. By "report", does that mean I should delete anything that's included in debian, include notes on what's found in the ubuntu package? I feel like I'm not grokking this right, sorry :/
<persia> Yasumoto, Your final changelog should be the old Ubuntu changelog + any new changelog entries from Debian + a new changelog entry from you.
<persia> In the new changelog entry, you want to have one item "merged with Debian.  Remaining Ubuntu changes:" and list the specific changes you are preserving.
<Yasumoto> ohhhh
<Yasumoto> thank you
<huats> morning everyone
<eMerzh> if someone has time to review my package, i wld be verry happy :p ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman )
<Yasumoto> good morning huats
<huats> morning Yasumoto
<Yasumoto> RAOF: if you have some time, mind looking at my preliminary changelog? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/73754/
<Yasumoto> jk, update: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/73756/
<mr_pouit> persia: imho that was not very useful to add a watch file to xfce-mcs-plugins-extra, as it'll be deprecated with xfce 4.6 ;)
<RAOF> Yasumoto: Looks about right, although you're missing the dropping of the needless democracyplayer-data package.
<persia> mr_pouit, Oh, then yes, it was probably useless.  I just found it when I was cleaning up ~/src/scratch today, and pushed it to help clear UEHS.
<Yasumoto> RAOF: good, catch, I didn't see that
<RAOF> Yasumoto: I always debdiff my merges against the Debian base while reviewing my changelog; that makes it easy to spot.
<slytherin> persia: do you have GCJ installed at present?
<persia> slytherin, No.
<slytherin> persia: ok. Whenever you get time, can you please check if omegat starts with GIJ runtime? My last changelog entry indicates it should run, but it was not working yesterday. I am working on putting changes back into Debian.
<persia> slytherin, Do you need that tested in intrepid, jaunty, sid, or lenny?
<slytherin> persia: intrepid is fine.
<Yasumoto> RAOF: attached to the bug
<Yasumoto> thanks for your patience, lemme know if there's anything else I can fix
<Yasumoto> I'm off to bed, I'll see you guys tomorrow
<persia> slytherin, Fails to startup because I don't have ~/.omegat/omegat.prefs
<slytherin> persia: Wow. On my machine it simply throws a null pointer exception. Are you using version from repositories?
<persia> slytherin, Yep.  Intrepid version, intrepid repos.  update-alternatives adjusted to always use gcj.
<persia> (mind you, it's all purged now, but I was using that)
<voland> persia, hello. is this a right place to ask why i get an error usin pbuilder?
<voland> *using
<persia> voland, It can be.  Ask your question.  If it's not the right place, someone will point you elsewhere.
<voland> I've got such error 'fb2parser.c:27:51: error: /usr/include/libxml2/libxml/xmlmemory.h: No such file or directory' I have libxml2 packge installed
<voland> There is such file
<slytherin> persia: I wonder what is wrong with my machine. I will check once again when I go home.
<mok0> voland: you need libxml2-dev installed
<voland> mok0, I have tem installed
<persia> voland, Is it in your build-dependencies?
<voland> yes
<soren> libxml2-dev? Not just libxml2?
<voland> soren, yes
<mok0> voland, find line 27 in fb2parser.c and paste it here
<soren> $ dpkg -L libxml2-dev | grep /usr/include/libxml2/libxml/xmlmemory.h
<soren> /usr/include/libxml2/libxml/xmlmemory.h
<soren> It's certainly there.
<soren> voland: I'm much more interested in the build log from pbulider.
<soren> pbuilder, even.
<voland> #include </usr/include/libxml2/libxml/xmlmemory.h>
<mok0> hmm
<mok0> voland: edit it to become <libxml2/libxml/xmlmemory.h> insted
<mok0> instead
<voland> ok
<voland> soren, here it is an interesting part of log http://paste.ubuntu.com/73779/
<voland> mok0, I've done it but nothing happens
<soren> voland: That's not the part of the log I'm interested in, actually.
<soren> voland: Can you put the whole thing somewhere?
<voland> ok
<foolano> voland: i guess you need  -I/usr/include/libxml2 somewhere
<iulian> james_w: Thanks for the uploads!
<SUNWjoejaxx> anyone have an example of a really simple kernel module source code package?
<persia> kqemu-source
<SUNWjoejaxx> ok thanks
<eMerzh> call to anyone who want / can review a package, ...i just correct mine for lasts errors ...(http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman)
<handschuh> eMerzh: sorry for beeing not detailed enough the last time
<handschuh> eMerzh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/73816/ - this is how your changelog is supposed to look like
<eMerzh> ah.. ok, no problem
<eMerzh> otherwise, something else?
<handschuh> eMerzh: looks good. but still reading
<eMerzh> ok thanks
<handschuh> eMerzh: your debian/sqliteman.1 says "NOVEMBRE 2008"
<handschuh> eMerzh: delete the empty line in debian/watch (between version=3 and http://...)
<eMerzh> Oups =)  -"RE" +"ER"
<eMerzh> ok... i add it because at building i had a warning on it
<handschuh> does this watchfile even works?
<handschuh> s/works/work
<joaopinto> hi
<handschuh> eMerzh: ok watchfile is fine - just delete the empty line in the middle
<eMerzh> ok
<handschuh> If a package that I have created passed revu and got into the ubuntu-repositories, am I allowed to update this package directly?
<persia> handschuh, If you're an Ubuntu developer.
<voland> how can I add xml2-config --cflags into source for ppa packaging?
<persia> handschuh, More generally, it falls into the same category as the rest of the packages in Ubuntu, but the sponsors are always happy to upload updates.
<directhex> handschuh, you still need to file debdiff/diff.gz updates to launchpad - you can just get to be more... insistent... when going on a sponsor hunt
<handschuh> persia: so getting an update through revu is likely faster than a new package?
<directhex> handschuh, might i suggest a trident? a normal spear isn't very good at pinning sponsors down
<persia> handschuh, No.  Updates don't go to REVU.
<persia> handschuh, More specifically, you'd submit patches to packages in the archive through bugs, and the sponsors process those.
<joaopinto> can someone advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amoebax ? Thanks
<persia> directhex, sponsors are slippery.  Nets are more useful.  The trident is to be used *after* the net.
<handschuh> persia, directhex: thats good news to me  - thanks
<persia> joaopinto, The latest upload has already been rejected.  It's exceedingly unlikely to be sponsored without more comments or uploads.
 * handschuh buys some tridents and nets
<joaopinto> ops, sorry didn't noticed the last comment
<joaopinto> :\
<persia> joaopinto, No problem.  Happens to everyone :)
<joaopinto> I had the wrong idea the cdbs edit patch would add the patch to the patches list
<voland> could someone tell where to dig with this libxml? or where can i ask. don't think it's a demand, it's just a request ^
<azeem> voland: try to be more specific
<azeem> your question is highly dependent on the particular build system of the package
<voland> here it is a build log from my ppa: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19751646/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.easyreader_0.1.2-1ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<voland> someone told me to use 'cc `xml2-config --cflags`' in compile prosess, so my question is where sould i put this? in witch file?
<voland> as you can see dependences are satisfied, but it can't find header files...
<voland> sorry for dusturbing you all but i simply want to build this package
<joaopinto> voland, if your package has a Makefile, you would add it to CFLAGS, the xml2-config
<voland> *disturbing
<voland> in my makefile.in there is this line: PACKAGE_CFLAGS = @PACKAGE_CFLAGS@
<azeem> voland: so check what it gets expanded to in Makefile
<voland> and in src directory in makefilei.am there is anoter one: INCLUDES = \$(PACKAGE_CFLAGS)
<voland> there is no makefile in my directory
<voland> onle makefile.am and makefile.in
<voland> *only
<voland> sorry, i forgot to run ./configjre
<slytherin> voland: Is this the first time you are compiling something from source?
<voland> slytherin, no, but this troubles faced me for the first time
<slytherin> voland: the reason I am asking is that you do not seem to be very familiar with autotools based compilation.
<eMerzh> handschuh, thanks for your comments, package updated
<voland> slytherin, yes, i'm not very familiar. my problem is: if i want to check my package with pbuild it returns me an error like this: /usr/include/libxml2/libxml/xmlmemory.h:16:31: error: libxml/xmlversion.h: No such file or directory
<voland> i have this package (libxml2-dev installed), but nothing solves
<slytherin> voland: when you say, I have ï»¿libxml2-dev installed, where is it installed?
<voland> slytherin, /usr/include/libxml2/
<slytherin> voland: pbuilder does not use packages installed on your machine.
<voland> yes, but it is in my dsc file in depend section
<voland> in build-depends section
<slytherin> voland: what is the link to your ppa?
<azeem> voland: probably the same error again, -I/usr/include/libxml2 missing
<voland> azeem, yes, because makefile was rewrited by configure script
<azeem> well, of course
<voland> slytherin, http://ppa.launchpad.net/telenga/ubuntu
<azeem> 14:00 < azeem> voland: so check what it gets expanded to in Makefile
<eMerzh> sorry to insist, if someone could review again my package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman )
<bddebian> Heya gang
<hyperair> regarding the packaging codelite in revu, there are stuff in /usr/share/codelite/plugins (.so files, and lintian complains), but to shift the plugins dir to /usr/lib requires quite an extensive patch. is the whole lintian-must-be-clean rule set in the stone or something?
<james_w> no
<james_w> but that is a fairly serious problem
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone have a look at the patch in bug 298273 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298273 in sl-modem "Add DKMS support to sl-modem" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298273
<slytherin> AnAnt: I guess superm1 is the most qualified person for review. :-)
<AnAnt> superm1: ping
<superm1> AnAnt, at a first glance, are you sure you have enough recommends?  generally dkmsified packages need recommends on the headers and libc6-dev.
<AnAnt> kernel-headers?
<superm1> AnAnt, yeah kernel headers
<superm1> eg linux-headers-generic | linux-headers
<AnAnt> it recommends kernel-package
<superm1> which pulls in a bunch of stuff that you dont want
<superm1> dpkg-dev
<superm1> po-debconf
<superm1> bzip2
<AnAnt> superm1: well, the original package (which uses module-assistant) was like that
<AnAnt> superm1: this package supports both DKMS & module-assistant
<superm1> AnAnt, that's because the original package would have generated debs
<AnAnt> superm1: well, it still does, because it still supports module-assistant
<superm1> hmm
<AnAnt> superm1: if you look at the postinst & postrm, you'll see a check if dkms exists, then dkms will be used
<superm1> i'll have to look a little bit closer later today then.  can you assign the bug to me and i'll give it a shot in a chroot later and see if the behavior looks right?
<AnAnt> sure
<AnAnt> superm1: & thanks
<AnAnt> done
<hyperair> james_w: it's actually pretty hard, because everything seems to depend on a function GetInstallDir or something, and that defaults to /usr/share or /usr/local/share on linux
<jsmidt> I uploaded a package to revu called thepeg hours ago.  dput said it was successful but there is nothing on the website and I received no new email.
<persia> jsmidt, You wouldn't get email.  Which package?
<jsmidt> thepeg
<persia> jsmidt, It was rejected.  Is your GPG key in launchpad?
<jsmidt> Yes, I uploaded the same package to my PPA successfully.
<jsmidt> Does PPA use the same key?
<persia> Yes.
<persia> Next, have you previously logged into the web interface of REVU?
<jsmidt> yes
<persia> Right.
 * persia tries to decode harder
<persia> jsmidt, What's your LP ID?
<jsmidt> jsmidt
<persia> Well, at least the signing key matches.  Hmmm...
<jsmidt> persia, thanks a lot for all this.
<persia> No problem.  That's why there are REVU Admins :)
<persia> jsmidt, I don't know why it didn't work.  I'll shove it back in the queue, and see if it works this time.
<jsmidt> okay
<persia> requeued.  Check back on REVU in ~ 10 minutes.  If it's not there yet, complain here again.
<jsmidt> okay
<mok0> In the jaunty version of nut, configure prefix is changed from /usr to /, libdir is still /usr/lib, which means that the *.so link in the libupsclient1-dev package is void
<mok0> I wonder what the intention is
<jsmidt> persia, it worked! Thanks a lot again.
<persia> jsmidt, No problems.  Probably just a race between your login, syncing credentials from LP, and the upload.
<iulian> james_w: Regarding the powersave merge... those changes are in translations/. I've no idea why it showed up in the diff.
<iulian> james_w: I'm re-doing the merge and looking up carefully.
<james_w> iulian: there was more than that
<james_w> you don't have to document the translations/ stuff, as that is automatic
<iulian> james_w: http://paste.ubuntu.com/73903/plain/
<persia> also, the automated merge tools do *especially* badly with translations.  Except in special cases, it's generally better to just use the Debian translations.
<iulian> james_w: Do I have to document the changes from debian/patches/series?
<iulian> Since I removed a couple of patches I had to remove them from series as well.
<james_w> iulian: things like the removal of ${misc:Depends}
<james_w> the bits added to README.Debian
<iulian> james_w: That is documented (Remove Security section from README.Debian.)
<iulian> Debian changed README.Debian a little bit.
<james_w> your diff from Debian *adds* lines
<persia> Elbrus: fpc isn't sync'd because it has Ubuntu variation: it needs a merge.
<persia> james_w, Did you have a special interest in that, or were you just helping because you had time?
<james_w> persia: with fpc?
<persia> Yes.
<james_w> it was on the sponsors' list
<persia> james_w, Then no worries :)
<iulian> C* translations/power-management.pot and I see only power-management.pot.UBUNTU. Shouldn't it have a .DEBIAN as well?
<iulian> I remember that I renamed it to don't show UBUNTU.
<iulian> And I believe this is why it showed up in the diff.
<devfil> mok0: next time can you please ask the previous uploader before working on a merge?
<mok0> devfil: sorry did you waste time on collectd?
<devfil> mok0: yes
<mok0> devfil: I looked for you
<iulian> persia: Like you said that the automated merge tools are badly with translation. Don't you think it should have had a .DEBIAN as well?
<iulian> Hmm, am I missing something?
<mok0> devfil: did you work out the problem with the package
<persia> mok0, devfil Please 1) file a bug when you're starting a merge, if you're going to take more than 5 minutes and you aren't the previous uploader, and 2) check bugs against the package when you start the merge.
<mok0> persia: yes it was dumb
<devfil> mok0: have you tested if it build fine or not? If I remember right it doesn't build due to a problem in nut
<mok0> devfil: right.
<mok0> devfil: I filed a bug against nut
<mok0> bug 299489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299489 in nut "[jaunty] /usr/lib/libupsclient1.so is a dangling link" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299489
<devfil> mok0: also NCommander but in debian, I was waiting for the fix in order to upload the package
<mok0> devfil: but there was also an issue with perl.c
<NCommander>  ?
<devfil> mok0: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=505101
<ubottu> Debian bug 505101 in libupsclient1 "points to /usr/lib not /lib"" [Serious,Open]
<mok0> devfil: you wanna link to that bug?
<devfil> mok0: done
<mok0> devfil: thx
<mok0> devfil: sorry I stepped on your toes
<jdong> aasdfasdfs
 * NCommander attacks the universe sponsor queue
<superm1> NCommander, could i prod you to take a look at a backport request?
<NCommander> superm1, link
<superm1> NCommander, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/intrepid-backports/+bug/298785
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298785 in intrepid-backports "please backport lirc and mythbuntu-lirc-generator to Ubuntu intrepid" [Undecided,New]
<NCommander> superm1, did you test build on intrepid?
<superm1> NCommander, that PPA is an intrepid PPA
<iulian> james_w: W: powersave source: patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff translations/power-management.cs.p
<NCommander> So the package from jaunty builds on intrepid without changes?
<superm1> NCommander, yup
<iulian> james_w: ... o and 9 more
<NCommander> superm1, I'm a little tied up, if you can post the extact versions to verify, and confirm they install without issue (aka verification), I'll ACK it if there are no evil rdepends
<iulian> james_w: I still get those changes in the diff.
<superm1> NCommander, sure i'll add a log showing that later
<iulian> james_w: http://paste.ubuntu.com/73916/plain/
<james_w> iulian: does the clean target in debian/rules do something to change them?
<NCommander> superm1, I'm somewhat concerned about the rdepends. How well has this been tested
<iulian> james_w: No, I already checked that.
<superm1> NCommander, i've got multiple users on several PPAs, including ~superm1 and ~commandir.  not to mention the commandir team is recommending this as their installation method on their website atm http://www.commandir.com/content/view/53/75/
<NCommander> Please post that in the verification comment
<NCommander> nxvl, ping
<iulian> james_w: It seems that someone modified it without documenting it in the changelog. I checked the debian package (0.15.20-3) and lintian didn't complain.
<iulian> james_w: Should I try to manually merge it?
<iulian> james_w: I believe this is the only way we can do to get rid of those changes.
<iulian> If you have a better solution, that would be great.
 * NCommander thinks Launchpad ate my upload
<iulian> Make it burp.
<CarlFK> I am building dvgrab-3.2 from cvs.  I copied the debian/ dir from apt-get source dvgrab.  I had to add quotes to a line in rules to get it to build.  I am guessing someone else is going to bump into this.  where should I send a patch?
<CarlFK> should I post it to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dvgrab ?
<slytherin> persia: there?
<RainCT> btw, what happened with the MOTU Meeting last Friday?
<persia> Sortof.
<persia> RainCT, loosely, we decided to talk more.  I have partial minutes compiled, and expect to send them within the next 14 hours.
<slytherin> persia: did you notice any other errors than the error about missing .omegat/omegat.prefs when you launched omegat with GIJ?
<RainCT> persia: OK.  /me couldn't assist because he was at school :(
<james_w> iulian: please attach your latest patch to the bug report
<iulian> james_w: I already did :)
<persia> slytherin, No.  It immediately failed to start with a FileNotFound
<NCommander> ember, ping
<james_w> iulian: please also mark them as patches, it makes sure they end up as text/plain
<slytherin> persia: Ok. Because I am seeing two exceptions, file not followed by null pointer. I get file not found with openjdk as well but the app starts and creates preferences file.
<james_w> iulian: you've dropped the old changelog entries
<iulian> james_w: Oups, the Ubuntu ones, right?
<james_w> yep
<iulian> Forgot about the changelogs. Will upload a new diff in a moment.
 * jdong grins
<jdong> Unable to mount USB 2.0 Root Hub: Cannot claim device.
<jdong> why thank you, Nautilus :)
<james_w> iulian: I also don't think all of debian/NEWS should be dropped
<james_w> I'm not sure about completely removing the postinst, due to the dbus reload, but I'm not confident enough to say either way
<iulian> james_w: OK, I will re-add the NEWS file.
<james_w> iulian: no, not all of it
<iulian> Yup
<iulian> james_w: What would you like to keep form this http://paste.ubuntu.com/73934/plain/ ?
<iulian> s/form/from/g
<eMerzh> me again, someone to review a package .... thaanks ;) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman
<iulian> james_w: 0.15.20-1 ?
<NCommander> iulian, svk has been copied into updates, it should be generally available within a few hours (depending on how long your mirror takes to update)
<james_w> iulian: look at the version numbers
<james_w> one entry has been added since the last merge
<james_w> so there was only one before
<iulian> NCommander: That's awesome, who's the 2nd ACKer?
<james_w> so removing the file just removed one, now it removes two
<NCommander> iulian, you only need one, someone forgot to set it to verification-done
<james_w> does the new entry apply to Ubuntu?
<jsmidt> I am trying to package a package that will be maintained by the entire High Energy Physics team in Launchpad.  I want to put an email for the team.  Launchpad doesn't list one, just says all notifications are sent to all members.
<jsmidt> Is there a way to set up an email that goes to all members?
<jsmidt> Or is there an LP address that forwards to all members?
<Laney> You can have mailing lists for teams on LP
<jsmidt> Laney, do you have to be the team administrator to set that up?
<Laney> jsmidt: Probably
<Yasumoto> jsmidt: yeah, I believe so
<slytherin> jsmidt: it is possible so either set a mailing list or to set mail preference so that mail gets sent to all members. In both cases you have to be admin.
<jsmidt> Thanks Laney Yasumoto and slytherin, I will look into this.
<Yasumoto> jsmidt: what are you trying to package?
<jsmidt> thepeg and herwig
<jsmidt> Later a few others.
<iulian> james_w: I believe the new entry does apply to Ubuntu.
<james_w> iulian: I agree
<iulian> james_w: I suggest to keep it and remove the last one, 0.12.0-1.
<james_w> I agree
<iulian> OK
<binarymutant> if anyone  has the time I would greatly appreciate a review/advocation of my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm, thank you :)
<iulian> james_w: Patch has been attached.
<james_w> I saw
<NCommander> binarymutant, I'm reviewing now
<binarymutant> thanks NCommander
<NCommander> binarymutant, advocated
<binarymutant> ty
<NCommander> binarymutant, you need to find a second person to look it over
 * persia prepares to reject charm
<NCommander> persia, O_o?
<sebner> hrhr
<persia> NCommander, I try to reject everything I can.  Sometimes I slip, and something gets through.
<NCommander> persia, there was one cosmetic issue I noted, but not enough for me to withhold an advocation (whoever uploads can quickly fix it, the changelog probably should have an additional newline)
<sebner> persia: I like your humor =)
<persia> sebner, Thanks :)
<sebner> persia: mind helping me with a REVU package review?
 * NCommander REJECTs persia's sense of humor
<NCommander> sebner, I'll help as well
<NCommander> I'm in a sponsoring mood
<persia> sebner, When I finish this one.
<sebner> GREAT
<NCommander> sebner, link?
<sebner> Mostly I try to convince the uploader aka upstream to fix the source files because of license headers ^^, but if you find any other issues I'm happy
<iulian> james_w: Thanks again.
<sebner> NCommander: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=netactview
<james_w> iulian: thank you
<nxvl> NCommander: pong
<sebner> nxvl: ping!
 * nxvl hides
<nxvl> sebner: i lost your bug
<nxvl> sebner: can you please resend the bug number
<NCommander> nxvl, I need an SRU ack
<nxvl> NCommander: bug number
<sebner> nxvl: What about a cronjob that sends you a daily email reminder? :D :D :D
<nxvl> sebner: :D
<nxvl> sebner: last week has been really busy
<nxvl> but since i've national holiday from Thu i will have time for you
<nxvl> :D
<NCommander> nxvl, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/drgeo/+bug/257797
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257797 in drgeo "segment fault" [High,In progress]
<sebner> nxvl: well sounds great but to me it seems that sebner has priority low and others high :P
<fabrice_sp> james_w: Hi. About bug #298286
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298286 in wxsvg "[Merge request] Please merge wxsvg 1.0-0 from Debian Multimedia unstable for Jaunty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298286
<james_w> hi fabrice_sp
<guest22> A question for REVU admins: I uploaded a package update to REVU yesterday, but it still hasn't shown up. Any suggestions?
<slytherin> guest22: have you ever logged in to revu?
<fabrice_sp> I'm the upstream maintainer of packaging for Ubuntu, and the versions has been added by Christian Marillat
<nxvl> sebner: for NCommander is easy, just build test and ACK, patches review are harderd
<nxvl> harder
<persia> guest22, which package?
<fabrice_sp> james_w: that's why I know that versions are not mandatory (and also, I published the package since gutsy in sourceforge repository)
<guest22> slytherin: Yes, I'm currently logged in.
<nxvl> sebner: and if security vulnerabilities included, is worst
<guest22> persia: xnav
<sebner> nxvl: hehe, ok ok. don't worry. I'm just happy you are still interested ;P
<NCommander> nxvl, er, what?
<nxvl> sebner: for all 3/4 releases it's needed QA, rebuild, PoC and such
<guest22> persia: see http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=2442
<slytherin> guest22: did you login before uploading the package? The thing is that your GPG public key will get imported from launchpad to REVU on first login.
<nxvl> NCommander: is just ONE release
<nxvl> NCommander: not much work
<fabrice_sp> james_w: so should I put a justification of removing required versions in changelog?
<NCommander> nxvl, I have a second ack for you
<james_w> fabrice_sp: I don't see why that is justification
<nxvl> sebner: also, i was hoping you to become a MOTU and stop pinging me :P
<slytherin> guest22: oh, so you mean your latest upload has not appeared on revu, right?
<persia> guest22, I see the reject.  What's your LP ID?
<NCommander> nxvl, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/open-vm-tools/+bug/278711
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278711 in open-vm-tools "open-vm-source doesn't build" [High,Fix released]
<guest22> slytherin: Yes, correct.
<sebner> nxvl: well, my application was sent 12 days ago ;-D, MOTU != SRU :P
 * NCommander wishes he was a member of SRU so he could ACK himself
<guest22> persia: Strange, the dput seemed to succeed without any errors. LP ID is 186922.
<nxvl> NCommander: k, i will check them at night
<NCommander> ;.;
<nxvl> now i need to fight with FF
<NCommander> FF?
<fabrice_sp> james_w: this package is already working in old versions of Ubuntu, without that high required version, and in my ppa, I have the version built on Hardy and Intrepid without required versions and they are working
<persia> guest22, https://launchpad.net/~186922 is 404.
<handschuh> slytherin: uiflite-package: I talked to the upstream-author and he refuses to release the package seperatly
<fabrice_sp> james_w: the problem with that versions is that it makes harder to backport the package
<james_w> fabrice_sp: why did Christian add them then?
<guest22> persia: Sorry, I don't understand. I see the bug status at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/186922 .
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 186922 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xnav" [Wishlist,In progress]
<slytherin> handschuh: personally, I would not want the package to enter archives in such case. But talk with other people to see what they say. Add comment on revu about the discussion we had and upstream's response.
<persia> guest22, Right.  I need to know who *you* are, not which bug :)
<fabrice_sp> james_w: because the debian packager of this package (not Christian, but the original one) had hard time to find a stable version of ffmpeg basically. But in Ubuntu, ffmpeg versions are stable
<slytherin> guest22: what was the dput command you used?
<james_w> fabrice_sp: ok, that's more of a reason
<guest22> slytherin: dput revu xnav_0.04-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<guest22> persia: You need the maintainer email or GPG id?
<slytherin> guest22: try - dput -f revu xnav_0.04-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<handschuh> slytherin: -done-
<persia> guest22, I need the launchpad login.
<persia> slytherin, That won't help.  It's on REVU.  It was rejected.
<guest22> slytherin: Done. As before, received message "Successfully uploaded packages", so no different from last time.
<fabrice_sp> james_w: ok. So if I put that comment (dependencies not needed as ffmpeg versions are stable) in the changelog, it would be ok?
<fabrice_sp> james_w: (or similar)
<slytherin> persia: I always use -f with revu
<guest22> persia: Launchpad login is bwohlberg
<james_w> fabrice_sp: I think so, I'd appreciate a comment from siretart
<guest22> persia: Is this related to the recent (at least, since the last time I uploaded anything) unification of revu and launchpad logins?
<persia> slytherin, That only helps when it doesn't say "upload successful"
<persia> guest22, It may well be.  Have you combined your accounts on the REVU website?
<fabrice_sp> james_w: ok. In the meanwhile, I'll put back quilt and fix the changelog
<fabrice_sp> also, for siretart, I've uploaded a new version of DVDStyler in revu ;-)
<guest22> persia: yes, I have. Latest upload just showed up. Did you fix something?
<persia> guest22, I've been poking things, but hadn't yet confirmed enough to fix.  Maybe a combination of what I've done and the reupload.
<guest22> persia: Anyway, seems to be OK now, thanks for the help.
<persia> In future, it's just one command for me to simulate the reupload, which may save you bandwidth.
<guest22> persia: Noted. While I'm here, I have a question about another launchpad bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/photoml/+bug/243791). It hasn't received any attention for a *long* time: is there somewhere I can make a request for it to be reviewed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243791 in photoml "pmlexpand utility broken" [Undecided,Fix released]
<slytherin> guest22: the bug status is 'fix released'
<persia> guest22, It says it's fixed.  Shouldn't need any more attention.
<guest22> slytherin: It's fix released in Intrepid, but there's also a request for an update to be released in Hardy, which has status New/Undecided
<guest22> persia: see response to slytherin.
<persia> Oh.  Just needs someone to backport the fix from Intrepid, and present to the SRU team then.  Waiting on a volunteer.
<guest22> persia: I've already uploaded a deb diff for Hardy. Is that what you're referring to, or do you mean it's waiting for someone to construct the backport using the debdiff?
<persia> binarymutant, I couldn't find a strong enough reason to reject charm, but I did find another minor issue.  Take a look, and if you want to fix that (and the one NCommander found), I'll happily ACK the result.  If not, I'll push.
<persia> guest22, Did you subscribe the relevant SRU team?
<guest22> persia: Yes: MOTU Stable Release Updates
<guest22> persia: Is that not correct?
<NCommander> persia, what was it?
<persia> guest22, That's all correct.  I wonder why it didn't get attention.  In that case, complain for an SRU review.
<guest22> persia: Where do make the request for an SRU review?
<binarymutant> thanks persia
<persia> guest22, Well, on LP, but if that didn't work, ask here.
<guest22> persia: OK, will do. Thanks again.
<persia> binarymutant, Just let me know which soonish, as I'm headed out in a bit.
<guest22> Any SRU members here? Coud you please take a look at bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/photoml/+bug/243791
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243791 in photoml "pmlexpand utility broken" [Undecided,Fix released]
<binarymutant> persia, as for 2: what do you mean should include the GPL paragraphs as instructed by the GPL?
<persia> binarymutant, There's a section in the GPL entitled "How to use the GPL" that expects a couple paragraphs to be in each source file.  The current source only says "This is GPL".  Since the GPL is included in the tarball, this is fairly obvious, but still a minor issue.
<binarymutant> okay I'll contact upstream about that, as for 1: should it just be the path and nothing else? since that particular version of dpatch hasn't been released in ubuntu yet
<siretart> fabrice_sp: james_w: hi. I notice you've hilighted me regarding ffmpeg? what's up?
<directhex> siretart, it's full of patents and you're a bad human being? ;)
<directhex> hm. is there a righ thing to do with expired, incomplete bugs?
<persia> binarymutant, I'd put something like "This package uses dpatch for patch management.  See /usr/share/doc/... for details".
<james_w> hi siretart, now are you?
<binarymutant> thanks persia
<persia> Oh, if that dpatch isn't in Ubuntu, it's harder.
<james_w> siretart: we were discussing bug #298286. fabrice_sp said that it doesn't need versioned B-D on ffmpeg stuff due to Ubuntu having a stable ffmpeg.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298286 in wxsvg "[Merge request] Please merge wxsvg 1.0-0 from Debian Multimedia unstable for Jaunty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298286
<persia> binarymutant, Do you expect that version of dpatch to be in Jaunty?
<binarymutant> persia, I think jmarsden said that 2.0.30 would be in jaunty but I'm checking right now
<binarymutant> it is
<slytherin> persia: can you please confirm bug 298400 and add comments if any. Iwill try to submit a debdiff tomorrow.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298400 in ant "Please move default-jdk to 'Depends'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298400
<persia> slytherin, That should make most things build with the JDK for the arch, rather than with gcj, right?
<slytherin> persia: right. in our case it will be mostly openjdk as usually java packages are arch:all
<persia> slytherin, Right, and since OpenJDK is becoming the default environment on a steadily increasing set of architectures, that should only be to our benefit.
<slytherin> persia: yes.
<eMerzh> sorry to insist, but if someone could look at (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman) i would be very glaaaad to correct eventual errors
<fabrice_sp> siretart: and also saying that I've uploaded an updated version of dvdstyler in revu (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler) :-)
<kumy> hi all, can someone help me to understand what's my problem with lintian. when I run $ lintian -I frogd_1.0-0ubuntu1.dsc
<kumy> I: frogd source: no-complete-debconf-translation ... what should be translated in my dsc??? mok0 you know about my package, do you have any hint ?
<kumy> -Kmos-, i'll try that
<directhex> hm. try and patch usplash, or finish a bottle of whisky.
<slytherin> kumy: your package probably presents a question to user and that is not translated.
<siretart> james_w: sorry, my laptop crashed and then I went off for dinner
<james_w> siretart: no problem
<siretart> james_w: thanks, I'm more or less fine. Swamped with day-job work pretty badly. I barely find time to do any merge :(
<siretart> fabrice_sp: regarding the patents issues in ffmpeg, I think we worked out a pretty usable compromise. still I think we make way to much fuss about that topic. still waiting for the TB to respond on this issue though
<siretart> james_w: fabrice_sp: regarding the package: there is no such thing as a 'stable' ffmpeg.
<jdong> siretart: no TB response on the codec patent issue yet?
<siretart> fabrice_sp: the versioned build-depends have nothing to do with stability. it marks which version of ffmpeg is required to build the package. removing it removes information which backporters help to decide if a package can or should be backported
<fabrice_sp> siretart: I know ffmpeg is not a stable package, but at least, the ubuntu package is more stable than the one made by Christina Marillat
<fabrice_sp> siretart: in this case, the version of ffmeg that ubuntu ships are fine
<siretart> jdong: no, unfurtunately not. collin suggested that we can enable the h261 encoder, which we now have in jaunty though. yay
<siretart> fabrice_sp: please define 'stable'
<fabrice_sp> this codec patent issue also affect mpeg2 encoding?
<jdong> siretart: interesting :) I would expect the decision to be either (A) Ubuntu cares about software patents (B) Ubuntu doesn't.
<jdong> fabrice_sp: all MPEG2+ codecs are covered by active patents, yes.
<fabrice_sp> in my case, I can encode a DVD, that plays fine
<siretart> in any case, your changelog entry is false. it really has nothing to do with stability
<siretart> jdong: it's not as easy as that. we need to look at the issue more closely than that
<jdong> fabrice_sp: if you look at a distro like, say, OpenSuse, which cares about patents in the USA where it operates, literally the only thing libavcodec supports is the fully Free formats :)
<siretart> jdong: AFAIUI, for everything in ffmpeg (except AAC and MP3) there is no difference between shipping encoders or decoders. so I don't see the problem why we really need to exclude the h263 encoder
<fabrice_sp> siretart: ok, so I just change it to the original one (deleted required versions of lib..), it's ok?
<siretart> jdong: as for mp3, ffmpeg doesn't support mp3 anyway, but uses libmp3lib for that. AAC is a way more interesting issue
<fabrice_sp> I really thought that -unstripped verison of libavcodec was created because of patent issues
<jdong> siretart: right, that's how I understand it too. Except for AAC where the playback is "royalty-free" for "some time", but both MP3 and AAC's encoder+decoder patent encumberance isn't GPL-compatible
<jdong> siretart: I've always found it a bit strange that we feel okay about shipping the decoders but not the encoders
<siretart> fabrice_sp: that's right. to work around the current ubuntu licensing policy. as indicated, I've notified the TB and am still awaiting a decision
<kumy> slytherin: hum... all seems to be fine now... I deleted all the generated packages and tryed again, now it works fine... sorry for disturbing
<jdong> it seems like most other distros with dedicated legal depts try to stay away from support for encoding or decoding the encumbered formats
<siretart> fabrice_sp: jdong: james_w: if anyone of you is at the next UDS, please raise that issue with members of the TB and the archive-admins
<siretart> jdong: like gentoo or mandriva? both ship a uncrippled ffmpeg for years!
<jdong> siretart: :) Prime examples :D
<jdong> I was thinking like RedHat or Novell
<siretart> that's another story.
<siretart> the key difference is that both sell boxed versions of their distribution
<jdong> Gentoo I guess has an interesting side... they don't technically "ship" anything :)
<james_w> siretart: I am, but I am not comfortable enough with the issues to do so, sorry.
<siretart> the MPEG LA charges for 'sold units'. neither ubuntu nor debian 'sell' units of ubuntu
<siretart> neither does debian, btw.
<directhex> debian doesn't sell units of ubuntu? :o
<jdong> well even back when they had separate downloadable versions that are NOT sold, this was the case too.
<siretart> james_w: they also have a mirror network for their distfiles. of course they distribute the stuff. I'm pretty confident that they even distribute binpkgs of ffmpeg
<jdong> can we really safely say we don't sell any units of Ubuntu hence we don't have to pay the royalty?
 * jdong is obviously a legal idiot
<siretart> I wouldn't sign that statement, but you now get the impression why I say it's not as easy as that
<siretart> you have to look pretty closely at the matter
 * directhex declares free software illegal in the principality of sealand, expects all distrtos to close their doors by attempting to follor the wules of every country everywhere at once
<fabrice_sp> actually, 32 packages rdepend on -unstripped versions of libavcodec, so these are 'riskies' app, then
<siretart> fabrice_sp: look more closeley. they depend alternatively on the -unstripped versions
<fabrice_sp> also, that mean that the dvdstyler package won't be accepted in Ubuntu, until this issue has been solved?
<siretart> in anycase. WTF is wxsvg NOT IN DEBIAN?!
<directhex> siretart, because you haven't packaged it yet?
<handschuh> slytherin: you are a debian developer, right?
<siretart> directhex: marillat obviously did package it.
<fabrice_sp> because it's using libavcodec?
<siretart> fabrice_sp: I didn't say anything about dvdstyler. whats the matter with it?
<directhex> siretart, i've been less than impressed by marillat's packaging. does that sound harsh? he does important work conceptually, but... well... time for him to run through REVU
<fabrice_sp> siretart: it's a package that I uploaded in revu, and you made a comment some time ago. I uploaded a new version, but it depends on -unstripped libavcodec to encode in mpeg2
 * fabrice_sp agree with directhex
<siretart> fabrice_sp: okay. in that case I'd suggest that you install an shlib.local file so that the binary package correctly depends in libavcodec-unstripped-52
<siretart> and get that to multiverse
<directhex> i don't think there was a single usable file in his moonlight package... mmmmhmmmmm... perhaps debian/compat was okay
<siretart> forget his packaging.
<fabrice_sp> siretart: ok.  Anyway, it should be the case of all dvd app's that are encoding in mpeg2, right?
 * siretart points to http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-multimedia-maintainers/2008-November/002221.html
<siretart> fabrice_sp: at least for now, yes. Things may change if we find a better solution, but for now, that's the best I've come up with
<siretart> I agree that our packaging pretty sophisticated. I can everyone just recommend to have a look at ffmpeg-debian's debian/rules file and compare it to marillat's version :-)
<fabrice_sp> siretart: ok. For the moment, will update dvdstyler
<siretart> and help would be more than welcome on that!
 * siretart points to http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-multimedia/experimental/ffmpeg-debian/debian/rules?rev=1549&view=auto
 * fabrice_sp had some fights with ffmpeg to understand why dvdstyler was coredumping in Intrepid, until I discovered -unstripped libraries :-)
<NCommander> directhex, ping
<directhex> pang!
<siretart> btw, jaunty has bumped SONAME on libavcodec51->libavcodec52. also the API has changed a bit I think.
<siretart> I wondered why libavcodec51 hasn't been removed yet from jaunty
<directhex> siretart, and debian?
<siretart> directhex: in experimental. not unstable/lenny.
<fabrice_sp> james_w: about the versions: the ones provided in debian/control of wxsvg are not usable (it's a too high for Jaunty), so they have to be changed
<fabrice_sp> (speaking of bug #298286)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298286 in wxsvg "[Merge request] Please merge wxsvg 1.0-0 from Debian Multimedia unstable for Jaunty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298286
<directhex> siretart, that's okay. we're planning on uploading, well, 50 would be a conservative estimate on the number of source packages heading for experimental from the three pkg-mono teams
<directhex> unless lenny jumps out of the door pronto
<NCommander> directhex, does that include a new mono version?
<directhex> NCommander, oh yes. that's stuck in NEW right now
<NCommander> argh
<directhex> NCommander, well, a 2.0 package is. we have 2.0.1 ready to upload once NEW is over with - and upstream handed us some 2.2 preview tarballs today
<NCommander> directhex, I'm currently working to get the current mono building on armel
<NCommander> (glibc issues, nothing mono specific AFAIK)
<directhex> NCommander, that would be very welcome news. can you try with 2.0, see if it makes a diff?
<NCommander> Wait, what?
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> Link to the package?
<NCommander> directhex, ^
<directhex> well, NEW means NEW means 'not for you, peasant'. http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-mono/mono/trunk/debian/ though
<siretart> fabrice_sp: if wxsvg is the same quality as the average marillat package, I'd suggest to not sync it but repackage it properly. However I did NOt investigat it yet at all
<siretart> directhex: sounds fun!
<directhex> man, everyone's being mean to christian tonight
<directhex> NCommander, feed it http://ftp.novell.com/pub/mono/sources/mono/mono-2.0.1.tar.bz2
<NCommander> directhex, when do you expect to be uploading :-/
<fabrice_sp> siretart: that's my point: why do we need to merge from a non official debian source? For me, it sounds more logical to do it from 'scratch'
<directhex> NCommander, when NEW finishes mucking about. which, knowing the secret cabal, is another 3 weeks. which is gonna totoally screw with the timing for my jaunty work. ho hum
<NCommander> so fix the version in jaunty presently, then try this one
<NCommander> Is that what your telling me? ;-)
<NCommander> We're getting a nice backup of FTBFS due no mono period.
<directhex> NCommander, armel isn't on the mono arch list right now is it?
<NCommander> It is
<directhex> wait, yes, it is
<NCommander> I dunno how stable mono on armel is however
<directhex> hang on, why does it FTBFS? it's built in  sid
<NCommander> glibc mismatch
<directhex> http://ftp.es.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mono/mono-jit_1.9.1+dfsg-4_armel.deb
<NCommander> We have a newer glibc
<NCommander> mono's prototypes and glibc's headers are having a disagreement
<NCommander> This happens all the time on port architectures :-)
<directhex> urgh. well, patches more than welcome in that case
<NCommander> ARM is great
<NCommander> I actually get to show normal devs what porting is like
<NCommander> WOOO
<directhex> anything that doesn't break on older glibc is a bonus
<NCommander> Yeah
<directhex> you still have a little bit of time to get into 1.9.1-5 and lenny ;)
<NCommander> directhex, it looks like the ARM arch dependent code is what self-destructed
<NCommander> Probably a safe bet its still broken on 2.x
<NCommander> directhex, I'm looking at the 2.0.1 tarball, the same code I had to change to fix mono on Ubuntu ARM hasn't changed, so the same patch will have to be applied
<NCommander> directhex, my patch is backwards compatible with older glibcs
<directhex> NCommander, fantastic. reportbug it please :)
<NCommander> Let me wait for this to finish building, make sure we have no more suprises
<NCommander> (unlikely, but better safe than sorry)
<directhex> NCommander, it only modifies the arm_mini.c (or whatever it's called) files, no risk ot affecting other arches?
<NCommander> actually arch/arms/tramps.c, but yeah
<joaopinto> is patches/00list required for the cdbs patchsys ?
<RainCT> joaopinto: nope
<directhex> joaopinto, no, but cdbs is sick filth
<laga> oh? someone who doesn't like cdbs?
<joaopinto> erm, I got an erroneous review :\
<joaopinto> didrocks, don't agree, I love cdbs
<RainCT> joaopinto: from a MOTU?
<joaopinto> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amoebax
<directhex> laga, cdbs is fine as long as you never need to make changes to how it thinks reality should be. veer off the straight and narrow, and it becomes doom
<RainCT> joaopinto: well, it's her pre-breakfast look :P
<directhex> this is where you say "we use it for mythtv and it's fine"
<joaopinto> directhex, cdbs tries to address a majority of build cases, and does it quite good
<RainCT> Hobbsee: I've given you Reviewer status on REVU, which I've just seen you hadn't, and removed that comment from amoebax so that it doesn't move it down to "needs work"
<joaopinto> can someone advocate the amoebax package ?
<ajmitch> joaopinto: I'm guessing it was because of your misleading use of a .dpatch suffix for the patch
<joaopinto> ajmitch, thatwas not me, I have just provided the name, edit-patch decided to use dpatch
<csilk> Is it necessary to have menu icons/shortcuts and desktop files in a a new package or is it ok for the initial release to be command line launched?
<ajmitch> either way, I'd probably suspect the same thing at a glance, before breakfast :)
<ajmitch> and before caffeine
<joaopinto> :D
<joaopinto> csilk, if its a desktop app, it should be started from the menu
<csilk> In that case do you know of any good ubuntu docs on desktop files?
<csilk> I've searched the wiki but there doesn't seem to be much on that topic
<joaopinto> hum, Hobbsee is right, the patch is not being applied
<RainCT> csilk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles, http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
<joaopinto> hum there is something odd, with 00list is not applied either
<RainCT> joaopinto: 00list is definitely not used by cdbs simple-patchsys
<RainCT> joaopinto: the problem is the file's extension
<RainCT> joaopinto: it should be .patch, not .dpatch
<csilk> Thanks RainCT
<RainCT> csilk: or easier, just look at some existing file, imitate it, and then run desktop-file-validate on it to find the errors that it very likely will have :P
<joaopinto> hum, let me redo the patch, if cdbs edit patch decided to provide .dpatch, there is a bug
<RainCT> joaopinto: cdbs-edit-patch gives it the name you tell it :P
<csilk> RainCT, sounds like a plan, thanks.
<joaopinto> Please make the changes necessary for the patch 02-desktop-fix.patch
<joaopinto> looks good now
<joaopinto> Trying patch debian/patches/02-desktop-fix.patch at level 1 ... success.
<joaopinto> ok, it's working now
<csilk> Another question, I'm not sure how to handle source taken from cvs, how do I remove all the cvs specific files and dirs in a sane standard way before packaging?
<RainCT> csilk: iirc,    find -type d -max-depth=1 | grep 'CVS' | xargs rm -r
<RainCT> csilk: try it without the   xargs rm -r   first
<RainCT> err, and without the -max-depht=1
<joaopinto> why not find -type d -name "CVS" ?
<csilk> RainCT, so I'm basically just rm'ing the cvs stuff?
<joaopinto> -exec rm ?
<RainCT> csilk: yep
<RainCT> joaopinto: that'd be an option, too :)
<csilk> I assumed there would be some standard MOTU prefered way
<csilk> cool, rm it is
<joaopinto> that grep is not that save, there could be a "MyCVSgame" dir :P
<joaopinto> safe
<csilk> I'll manually check if I miss anything with the grep
<RainCT> joaopinto: then we should hit the guy who gave it that name *g*
<joaopinto> csilk, find . -type d -name "CVS" -exec rm -r {} \;
<joaopinto> csilk, there is no need to check, find does not fail
<csilk> thanks
<joaopinto> amoebax was reuploaded with the s/dpatch/patch
<ryanakca> I'm patching sources with cdbs-edit-patch ... is there a stock README.source in another package that I could just copy over?
<RainCT> ryanakca: There is. (But I don't know where.. /me doesn't like this new README.source nonsense :P)
<ryanakca> RainCT: *nod*... imho, if you want to build the sources yourself, either a) you installed something to build them and our packaging will work like magic, or b) you're compiling by hand, and smart enought to use GNU patch
<RainCT> ryanakca: well, it's for other Maintainer to know how they are supposed to modify your package
<RainCT> ryanakca: but, except for some special cases, that is just obvious or can be found very easily
<ryanakca> RainCT: ah... *nod*
<RainCT> I mean, why would you want to include information about how to use cdbs-edit-patch in every damn package? :P
<RainCT> (and then, what if the syntax for it changes? :P)
<ryanakca> does it get installed to /usr/share/doc/<foo>/ ?
<RainCT> ryanakca: nope
<ryanakca> Wouldn't that cause a pile of redundant README's ? Wouldn't it not be better off to stick right in the new maintainer's manual that if you see ``quilt'' in the depends, or the <foo patchsys> rule in debian/rules, you should read that man page?
<ryanakca> ah, ok...
<ryanakca> I see see. I don't get the use, but complaining won't change anything either... *starts hunting* :)
<RainCT> Yeah.. Not sure if including that file is a "must" or a "should" in the Policy, but I'm not following it.. I only have it in one package, and because my sponsor wanted it :P
<ryanakca> RainCT: I'm trying to update the aoeui package in Debian... and... well... same situation :)
<RainCT> Actually, I thought Policy is menat to reflect the "common use". I have seen less than 5 packages having such a file, so I dunno from where that rule came from :P
<RainCT> Â«If running dpkg-source -x on a source package doesn't produce the source of the package, ready for editing, and allow one to make changes and run dpkg-buildpackage to produce a modified package without taking any additional steps, creating a debian/README.source documentation file is recommended.Â»
<RainCT> so it isn't necessary :)
<eMerzh> RainCT,or everyone else... if you are in a reviewing moood....please considere to have look to ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ) Thanks a lot for your patience :)
<RainCT> ryanakca: btw, is it you who blogged about dvorak *lots* of time ago on planet.ubuntu.com? :P
 * ryanakca is reading http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-policy@lists.debian.org/msg22445.html
<ryanakca> RainCT: most likely
<ryanakca> RainCT: but... my blog went kaput... so I lost most of my articles...
<RainCT> ryanakca: Then you almost convinced me that dvorak is cool :P. But I don't feel like learning to type again :P
<RainCT> ryanakca: one thing I wonder.. do you have any problems switching between QWERTY and Dvorak?
<ryanakca> RainCT: doesn't take that long... get yourself a long english essay / <random course> project to type, change the keyboard map and print off one of those tent references off of dvzine.org ... dvorak7min helps too
<ryanakca> RainCT: Yes... well... for the first 30s - minute... kindof confusing... but after that no problem...
 * RainCT (re, Debian.sources) isn't against the 6 lines boilerplate text telling where the docs for the patch system are, btw, but thinks that reproducing them entirelly is plainly stupid
<ryanakca> I find typing with QWERTY for long stretches of time uncomfortable now... might just be because the keyboards / desks at school way too high to be good for anybody's wrists
<RainCT> heh
<RainCT> ryanakca: I shall try it out some day :)
<RainCT> perhaps next summer :P
<ryanakca> Anyways... cdbs-edit-patch doesn't have a /usr/share/doc/quilt/README.source ... methinks it would be easier to just switch to quilt than to draft one up myself....
<RainCT> ryanakca: file a bug :P
<ryanakca> doesn't have an equivalent of...
<ryanakca> *nod*... in Debian I suppose, and then link to it from LP?
<RainCT> ryanakca: Yep, in Debian (package is cdbs)
<ryanakca> ok, will do :)
<RainCT> thanks
<ryanakca> Hmmm... ``no patch has documentation (see dpatch template)''... is that for in the changelog or in the patch itself? And where can I find said dpatch template? Would it be this line at the end of the dpatch(1) ? dpatch patch-template -p "01_some_patch" "A random patch" <random.diff >debian/patches/01_some_patch.dpatch
<RainCT> ryanakca: EMENOTUNDERSTAND :P
<ryanakca> RainCT: *sigh*, no do I... I'll send a reply off to my sponsor :)
<sjdurfey> whenever i suspend my computer, and bring it out of suspension, i cannot get my wireless connection to come back on, even if i try to manually bring it back up, is there a fix for this?
<directhex> depends on the wireless driver
<sjdurfey> how do i figure out which driver it is?
<directhex> right click on the network manager icon, connection information
<directhex> it tells you
<kumy> mok0: i've uploaded an updated version of frogd, could you review it when you have spare time?
<sjdurfey> driver: rt61pci
<RainCT> ryanakca: btw, I suppose Dvorak also works fine with non-US keyboards?
<directhex> sjdurfey, i think "known bad" drivers are generally unloaded on suspend then loaded on resume
<directhex> sjdurfey, i don't know the mechanism for it though
<sjdurfey> is that know bad driver?
<RainCT> ryanakca: or rather, does it support special chars (like Ã§)?
<sjdurfey> wow, i certainly mistyped that, haha "is that a known bad driver?"
<RainCT> ryanakca: nevermind, found it :)
<RainCT> well, i'm off
<ryanakca> RainCT: use the us dvorak-intl map
<ryanakca> and, g'night :)
<RainCT> ryanakca: yep, I'm using the Spanish one right now :)
<ryanakca> :)
<lfaraone> which is better for a beginnger: CDBS, or debhelper?
<RainCT> ryanakca: and typing damn slow :P
<RainCT> well, see ya!
<ryanakca> RainCT: is it a variant of the english layout, or is it a completely new map?
<ryanakca> See ya
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-19
<RainCT> ryanakca: it has some little differences... like the h and the r being excanged
<azeem> lfaraone: both are orthogonal
<binarymutant> I was wondering if it was okay to contact upstream about including gpl info into the source code, and if getting the okay, including a patch with the package?
<nhandler> binarymutant: If upstream agrees about having the GPL info in the source (like it should be), I would try and get them to make the changes themself. That way, we don't even need to patch it.
<binarymutant> nhandler, I just didn't want to wait for another release to have those gpl paragraphs included in the source code :/
<NCommander> directhex, ping
<nhandler> binarymutant: It all depends on upstream. Some upstream developers have no issue relasing new versions of the application that only fix minor issues (like the GPL one)
<directhex> NCommander, sleepy pong
<NCommander> directhex, I have a patch for mono on armel, where do you want it?
<binarymutant> thanks nhandler for the info
<directhex> NCommander, bugs.debian.org. or if you prefer, pkg-mono@lists.debian.org
<directhex> NCommander, actually, maybe upstream wants it? i could bridge it into novell bugzilla tomorrow
<NCommander> directhex, ok, ping me tommorow
<persia> nhandler, Note that we're note supposed to patch the license while packaging, which it probably a stronger argument for doing/not doing than most others.
<nhandler> persia: Thanks for clarifying. I knew it wasn't commonly done. I also knew it wasn't recommended. However, I wasn't sure if it wasn't allowed.
<persia> nhandler, Essentially, the licensing is the license extended to the packager.  Such a license (WTFPL) generally doesn't permit the user to modify the license while not altering the attribution when distributing.
<persia> s/WTFPL/WTFPL excepted)
<persia> nhandler, So, if you take licensed code, and modify it a bit, and create something different, you can do license cleanup.
<persia> (to a limited degree, depending on the license).
<persia> If you're just packaging, and claiming that this is upstream source, with upstream licensing, you generally can't.
<persia> (again, WTFPL excepted)
<persia> (note: for those seeking a definition of "free" that goes well beyond anarchy, the WTFPL is a good choice)
<jsmidt> If anyone has time, could you look at the buildlogs for herwigpp in my ppa: https://launchpad.net/~jsmidt/+archive
<jsmidt> The build isn't working
<jsmidt> It has this error: dh_shlibdeps: command returned error code 512
<jsmidt> I'm new at packaging and I am trying to figure out what exactly is going wrong.
<edajai> hi
<dholbach> good morning
<edajai> morning
<edajai> i'am confused... i want to contribute to ubuntu project ..but i dunno where to start
<edajai> i thought of packaging
<dholbach> edajai: what are you interested in?
<dholbach> ah great
<edajai> programming
<dholbach> check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<edajai> i know c++
<dholbach> it links to a lot or resources like the packaging guide, tutorials, videos, etc
<edajai> i thought MOTU was for packaging only
<dholbach> we fix a lot of bugs too :)
<dholbach> so knowing a programming language or two definitely helps
<edajai> oh..nice
<fabrice_sp> Hi dholbach :-)
<edajai> can u please provide me links to relatively less complex bugs that can be easily fixed
<dholbach> once you feel like you've played with the toys^Wtools a bit, there's also lists of bugs that might be easy to start with on the wiki page I gave you
<nellery> hi dholbach :)
<dholbach> hi fabrice_sp
<dholbach> hi nellery
<edajai> toys^Wtools???
<dholbach> tools
<edajai> k
<edajai> which IDE would u recommend?
<dholbach> regarding "^w": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%5EW
<fabrice_sp> I need some help with a watch file. I have this line inside: http://sf.net/dvdstyler/DVDStyler-(.*)\.tar\.bz2
<dholbach> edajai: just go with any editor you're familiar with for now
<fabrice_sp> but I'm getting DVDStyler-1.7.1b1.tar.bz2 as newer than DVDStyler-1.7.1.tar.bz2, when b1 is neta
<fabrice_sp> s/neta/beta/
<edajai> k
<fabrice_sp> How can I get that 1.7.1 is newer than 1.7.1b1 ?
<dholbach> fabrice_sp:
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ dpkg --compare-versions 1.7.1b1 gt 1.7.1 && echo TRUE
<dholbach> TRUE
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$
<dholbach> seems that upstream's to blame
<dholbach> wow... we're at bug 299776 now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299776 in evolution "evolution spontaneously crashes." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299776
<fabrice_sp> dholbach: that's what I thought :-)
<fabrice_sp> thanks
<dholbach> I guess today we'll get to bug 300000
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 300000 could not be found
<dholbach> ubottu: not yet
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about not yet
<fabrice_sp> do we have stats on bugs/versions? Just curious :-)
<dholbach> we should have, if you ask me :)
<fabrice_sp> lol
<edajai> just curious.. is there any work being done on delta deb upgrades??
<persia> fabrice_sp, You might want to look at uversionmangle in the uscan manpage.  changing the 'b' to "~b" might do it.
<persia> fabrice_sp, If you do that, you probably also want to adjust 'a' in case upstream releases an alpha, rather than a beta.
<fabrice_sp> persia: there have been alpha, so I'll have a look at that! Thanks!
<fabrice_sp> It worked! Thanks persia for the solution! This is the line I put: opts=uversionmangle=s/b/~b/;s/a/~a/
<persia> fabrice_sp, Would you mind adding some documentation on that hint, and the specific regex to the wiki page on creating watch files?
<persia> This is the second or third time I've seen the question, and I think maybe the uscan manpage language isn't accessible to some people.
<persia> fabrice_sp, Also, you might consider something like /([a-z])/~$1/ (if I remember perl correctly) to generalize rather than calling two match expressions.
<fabrice_sp> persia: I'll have a look at the wiki, but that's true that as it's perl regex, it's not so easy :-)
<persia> fabrice_sp, If you can't get the perl syntax right, that's fine.  Just the hint for 'a' and 'b' will probably save a lot of people pain.
<fabrice_sp> I'm used to vi, so I know this kind of regex, but as it's perl, it's a bit different. For sure it's not simple :-)
<fabrice_sp> Anyway, I'll update the wiki :-)
<Hobbsee> rainct: oh, thanks.
<slytherin> geser: FYI ... about 20 jboss related packages have entered 'NEW' queue in Debian main. Let's hop our build failures will get solved this time.
<eMerzh> if someone can review  my package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ....
<bain> can somebody help me and review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=teamgit
<geser> slytherin: that would be awesome
<iulian> bain: It seems that is something like git-cola. http://cola.tuxfamily.org/screenshots.php.
<iulian> bain: I will have a look at it when I get back home from school.
<bain> iulian, yes its something like git-cola but with different ultimate goals
<iulian> Looks interesting, I wonder what it can do.
<iulian> OK.
<bain> iulian, thanks, is it a bad thing to have two packages doing similar thigns?
<iulian> bain: I believe not. But IMHO we should keep the one which is the best.
<bain> iulian, teamgit will be the best ;-) (hint i am the author :p )
<iulian> Yes, I saw :)
<joaopinto> Hello
<joaopinto> any MOTUs around ?
<persia> Probably about half of the active ones.  Better to ask a specific question, as it collects more interest.
<joaopinto> the usual approach I had to ask that specific question every 10 joins or so, without much results, I am trying a new approach
<joaopinto> can someone advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amoebax ? Thanks
<persia> Oh.  Yeah.  That question doesn't tend to collect much interest except on REVU days, unless someone is particularly bored.
<persia> Also, it's probably better to ask for a review than an advocation.
<joaopinto> I already got enough reviews, I believe its the proper time for advocation
<joaopinto> 4 months reviewing should be sufficient
<persia> Well, a review will result in an advocation if it's ready.
<RAOF> Unless you've already got one advocate; once you've got one, advertising the fact is a good idea.
<persia> Also, there were only one or two REVU days during intrepid, so it's really only been about 3 weeks that the queue has been being processed much.
<persia> RAOF, Good point.
 * persia usually looks for one-advocate packages with problems.
<joaopinto> persia, the package was already reviewed before intrepid, that counts because the package was not started from scratch
<joaopinto> I am confident on the package status, that is why I am asking for someone with the ability to advocate
<persia> joaopinto, Where can I get the originals for the art?  Or where is this stated?  I don't see it from my quick look so far, but it appears to be a requirement of the license.
<joaopinto> which originals ? The art is contained on the source
<persia> joaopinto, The license for the art requires that the recipient be provided with information to collect the originals.
<persia> I don't know where the originals live, or anything about them.  If you also don't, I think you've a bit of investigation to do.
<joaopinto> "the originals" are contained on the source
<persia> Surely that's the distributed copy.
 * persia reads the license again
<persia> Also, in the ,desktop file, why drop the category "LogicGame", and why add "StartupNotify=true"?
<persia> No, it clearly states "You can freely distribute the copies of these works, modified or not, whatever their medium, wherever you wish, for a fee or for free, if you observe all the following conditions: ... specify to the recipient where he will be able to access the originals  (original and subsequent)."
<persia> From my reading, it just needs a URL somewhere.  Maybe it's in the README (haven't gotten to that file yet).
<joaopinto> persia, that statement applies to derivated/modificated work, the artwork distributed is the "originals"
<persia> "modified or not"
<joaopinto> persia, the download link is on the top of the copyright, that covers the "originals" availability requirement
<joaopinto> regarding startupnotify, what is wrong on using it ?
 * persia refuses to argue, but will need to find a link somewhere to advocate with that license
<persia> If the application doesn't support it, it hangs a process for 120 seconds.
<joaopinto> how is that checked, exit code ?
<persia> I'm not 100% sure, but my understanding is that it's a window manager hint callback that the application can use to say "I've started cleanly".  There's a hardcoded 120 second timeout to stop the "Starting application" pointer if it's not supported, but it's best to only use it when it is supported.
<joaopinto> persia, be more specific, what link do you need related to the license, there is a link which points to the page from where you can get the original art..
<joaopinto> ok, I will update the desktop patch
<persia> joaopinto, Yes.  I'll be looking at that.  I've not gotten to it yet.
<persia> joaopinto, Your watchfile doesn't work for me.
<joaopinto> persia, please post the comments on revu, I will only be able to fix the package later today :\
<persia> joaopinto, Oh, sure.  No problem.
<eMerzh> persia, if you are in a reviewing mood , please consider watching my pkg (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman) .. thanks a lot!
<persia> eMerzh, I'll take a quick look, but am still running the processing for the amoebax review.
<persia> eMerzh, No point mentioning debian/patches/00list in the changelog.
<persia> Be good to have a README.source
<eMerzh> oki thanks persia
<eMerzh> ok
<persia> Better to use /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/dpatch.mk than the mess you have in debian/rules
<persia> ALso, make triple-sure README isn't ending up in the binary package, as it's useless for end-users, but CDBS might try to include it by default.
<persia> Nothing else obvious from glancing through debian/
<eMerzh> persia, what should be in the README.source?
<persia> eMerzh, http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-readmesource but ideally you want to point at common shared instructions for dpatch.
<slytherin> eMerzh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/README.sourceHowTo
<persia> (note especially the note on the top of the page that it is becoming obsolete)
<eMerzh> ah ok, thanks slytherin ...how should i point to /usr/share/doc/dpatch/README.source.gz ?
<slytherin> eMerzh: no idea. persia, can you please help with that question ^^?
<eMerzh> :)
<persia> Just some informal text.  Something like "This package uses dpatch for patch management.  Please see usr/share/doc/dpatch/README.source.gz for usage details" or something.
<directhex> hm. how much pain and/or stabbing is involved in bundling a non-final RC or pre-RC of something into a release, then SRUing the hell out of it ASAP?
<persia> directhex, Heaps.  SRUs should be cherrypicks, except when there is a *very* convincing reason.
<jdong> the latter part will be a pain, the former part will not.
<directhex> monodevelop has been ancient and crap for ages - but upstream have been warning us not to try and use a pre-release alpha tarball as something to support for months on end. the next major release is due in 3-4 months
<persia> Right.  Push to Jaunty,  Track upstream, and get final in the release.
<persia> backport final to intrepid/hardy.  Let the cruft remain otherwise.
 * persia isn't on the SRU team, but is opinionated
<slytherin> directhex: is the situation similar to how it was for FF 3.0 beta in hardy?
<directhex> persia, i wasn't actually talking about intrepid/hardy (it needs a new mono stack, so won't happen officially). i really meant for jaunty, since it's likely to miss assorted freezes
<directhex> slytherin, AFAIK yes
<persia> directhex, If you want to pre-check with MOTU release, send mail to ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com describing the plan,and asking for MOTU release acceptance in advance.
<directhex> persia, as someone who isn't on the SRU team, but is opinionated, would you back a hardy-ff3-style plan?
<slytherin> directhex: You might also consider freeze exception depending on when the final release comes out.
<persia> directhex, If you're not SRUing, it's not an SRU decision: it's a Release decision.  Personally, I don't like to see snapshots in releases, but if you're sure you can get a real release for e.g. beta, I'd think it was good (but it's really a MOTU Release decision).
<kirkland> nixternal: geser: hey guys ...  would you mind voting on my core-dev application sometime soon?  thanks, cheers.
<nixternal> kirkland: I voted a while back
<directhex> persia, there we go, ML mailed. i hope i've described the situation adequately
<persia> directhex, Cool.
<kirkland> nixternal: hey, hmm, i don't see it, in my inbox, or in the threaded archive
<kirkland> nixternal: i have your vote for my MOTU, back in September
<kirkland> nixternal: this is for core-dev, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-October/001725.html
<nixternal> kirkland: you are right, I sent it to persia only...I just resent it to the list...I apologize for that
<persia> So this is why I was sure you'd voted :)
<kirkland> nixternal: awesome, thanks ;-)
<nixternal> persia: hehe, ya :)
<geser> kirkland: I try to get it done today, actually I just wanted to start on it
<frafu> Hello, I am trying to add a gconf schemas file to a debian source python debian package, but there remains an entry in the gconf database after uninstalling the package. I described the problem in the following thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=984014 Could anybody please tell me where the problem?
<kirkland> geser: great, thanks!
<frafu> What I don't understand is why "gconf-schemas --unregister onboard.schemas" does not delete everything in the gconf database!? What could be the reason? If somebody has an idea that would be great.
<JonReagan> is there any order to the REVU process?
<JonReagan> like, the first packages in are the ones that get reviewed first?
<mok0> JonReagan: not really
<JonReagan> ah, thx
<mok0> JonReagan: although we are trying to work through the backlog
<JonReagan> ah, lol... yeah I noticed there were quite a few
<JonReagan> good problem to have i guess
<mok0> It overwhelming
<JonReagan> yeah... sorry.  I uploaded mine this morning ;)
<mok0> JonReagan: except not everyone who uploads has the stamina to keep going
<JonReagan> ah
<mok0> So there's a lot of wasted time and effort
<JonReagan> ah, that's not good
<mok0> And many MOTUs don't really want new software in Universe
<JonReagan> ah
<JonReagan> well, I'm dedicated on working on my package, so at least that's one not to be worried about.
<JonReagan> :)
<mok0> JonReagan: There's > 1000 packages to maintain
<JonReagan> !
<mok0> JonReagan: what package?
<JonReagan> openproj
<JonReagan> version 1.4, to be exact
<JonReagan> it's my first package upload to revu
<mok0> JonReagan: I'll take a quick look
 * JonReagan does happy dance
<JonReagan> oh, thank you so much!
<JonReagan> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=openproj - here's the link
<mok0> JonReagan: you've been maintaining this for your own use?
<JonReagan> for my own use?
<JonReagan> I was hoping that it would find it's way into some repo for Ubuntu, either universe or multiverse
<mok0> JonReagan: it's not been in a distro
<JonReagan> not included in one yet
<JonReagan> Ubuntu will be the first one
<mok0> ok
<mok0> JonReagan: you need to take the debian/ dir out of the tarball
<mok0> JonReagan: since this is not a native package.
<JonReagan> ah, ok
<JonReagan> to upload the tarball after I have removed the debian folders, is there anything different from uploading the package with dput?
<mok0> JonReagan: (I also make a comment on revu)
<JonReagan> ah, thanks
<mok0> JonReagan: lets get to that later
<JonReagan> k
<mok0> JonReagan: in debian/changelog, you have to trim it down to the latest version. We are only interested in what happens after Ubuntu submission
<JonReagan> ok
<mok0> distribution is jaunty not GA
<JonReagan> k
<JonReagan> just so I'll know... these changes need to be made in the original tarball and then recompiled for upload to revu?
<mok0> JonReagan: and version will be (1.4-0ubuntu1)
 * JonReagan writes it down
<mok0> JonReagan: I am pasting my comments to REVU  as well
<JonReagan> thanks!
<mok0> JonReagan: did you create a needs-packaging bug on LP?
<JonReagan> yes I did... it got marked as a duplicate, however
<JonReagan> the other bug was a request for openproj that I had made a year ealier
<JonReagan> *earlier
<JonReagan> and the request was for an old version
<mok0> JonReagan: you need to close the LP bug in the changelog
<JonReagan> ok
<mok0> JonReagan: debian/control now
<eMerzh> after compiling and installing, my package at "dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory" .... anyone has an idea how to fix it? google don't help me much on this....
<eMerzh> i change arch from any to all , but always the same pbm
<JonReagan> do I need to place a link to the new lp bug in the changelog and debian/control?
<mok0> JonReagan: Maintainer is:  Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<mok0> JonReagan: you will be XSBC-Original-Maintainer:
<JonReagan> ah, wondered about that... thanks
<mok0> JonReagan: Standards-Version is 3.8.0 now
<JonReagan> ah... k
<mok0> Is there a homepage for this app?
<JonReagan> openproj.org
<mok0> JonReagan: You need to work more on the long description. Look at the hints in the Debian Maintainers Guide
<JonReagan> ok
<mok0> JonReagan: Lemme just see if I can find a link for that
<JonReagan> oh, thanks... I was hittin up google now
<NCommander> AHAHAH
<NCommander> I got bug #3000000
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 3000000 could not be found
<NCommander> I got bug #300000
<NCommander> :-P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300000 in libgtk2-perl "FTBFS fix" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300000
<jdong> IT'S OVER 3000000!!!!!
<jdong> (sorry :D)
<JonReagan> mok0:  I found it
<mok0> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<JonReagan> thx
<mok0> I think this is where I've seen the instructions on how to write a proper long description
<iulian> jdong: That should be a bad things, isn't it?
<iulian> s/things/thing/
<bain> iulian, I fixed the teamgit package according to your comments
<mok0> JonReagan: OK I have submitted a comment for your package, which will now appear in the "needs work" section... :-)
<JonReagan> ah, thank you so much! :D
<JonReagan> you have been a ton of help!
<mok0> JonReagan: when you "dput" your changes file next time, it should include a diff.gz file that contains the debian/ dir (and nothing else)
<mok0> JonReagan: glad to be of help :-)
<iulian> bain: OK, will have a look at it again in a moment.
<JonReagan> ah, k thx
<mok0> JonReagan: I am not good at Java packages, so I have skipped some things for now
<JonReagan> ok, I know some java folks who might be able to help me out on those
<mok0> OK, dinnertime :-P
<JonReagan> lunchtime for me ;)
<mok0> JonReagan: it's more about Ubuntu policy
<iulian> JonReagan: You might want to talk to slytherin or geser. They are good at Java packaging.
<mok0> JonReagan: where to place things etc.
<mok0> Bon appetit! hehe
<bain> iulian, judging from mok0's comments my diff.gz contains few files that are not correct
<JonReagan> ah, ok.  Thanks!  I will get to work on the stuff you recommended
<bain> iulian, will fix and report back here
<mok0> iulian: just saw your PM... I'll be back later
<JonReagan> ooh, after I finish the fixes, do I need to recompile the original source file?
<eMerzh> someone could help me to remove the README from the installed file?
<iulian> JonReagan: Build the package and upload it again.
<JonReagan> ah, thanks!
<iulian> eMerzh: Upstream's README?
<JonReagan> thank you so much everyone!
<bain> iulian, did the fix please review it whenever possible thanks
<eMerzh> iulian, yep the readme about how to compile ,...
<iulian> eMerzh: You can remove it from the debian/docs file. Sometimes README files are very useful but sometimes aren't, please double check when you remove it.
<iulian> bain: OK, I'm looking at it now.
<iulian> bain: I see that it's a native package. Do you want to ship the debian/ dir in the original tarball?
<iulian> Or it's just a mistake?
<slytherin> geser: do you mind if I work on libjdic-java merge/sync?
<bain> iulian,  no i do want to ship it
<iulian> bain: Then please remove it.
<iulian> Ahh, you do want.
<iulian> Sorry, misread.
<eMerzh> iulian, i don't have it in a debian/docs ....i haven't a docs file :)
<iulian> bain: Remove -0 from the version since it's a native package.
<bain> iulian, ok should i do it now or wait for more of your comments
<iulian> bain: What's with that debian/clean file? Please add that in the clean target in debian/rules.
<bain> iulian, actually i did that acting on your comment "Please merge rm -rf into dh_clean."
<bain> i obviously misunderstood
<iulian> bain: I didn't tell anything about creating a debian/clean file :)
<bain> so i should just add the listing in the rules file in front of dh_clean?
<geser> slytherin: no, please go ahead
<iulian> bain: $(MAKE) clean should do it for you.
<geser> kirkland: done
<iulian> bain: Please rename that to [ ! -f Makefile ] || $(MAKE) clean
<bain> iulian, make clean does not get rid of these files
<bain> i use qmake for generating makefiles and can't figure out how to do that
<iulian> bain: Well, I've never worked with qmake so I can't give you any advice about it.
<iulian> Perhaps someone from this channel knows?
<bain> iulian, ok make distclean will do it, can i change to that?
<iulian> bain: If it does, yes.
<iulian> In the end we're trying to get rid of unwanted files.
 * iulian is going to school to take his notebook.
<iulian> I obviously forgot about it.
<bain> iulian, ok i have almost fixed all the things you told so far, thanks for your help
<bain> iulian, review whenever you get time next chao
<iulian> bain: OK, good. Will review it again when I get back home. School is not so far.
<bain> iulian, i won't be on irc as this is past midnight here in india please leave a comment ... thanks again for your help
<serialorder> anyone around?
<geser> depends on what you need
<serialorder> well then you are probably not around =)
<serialorder> I am interested in contributing, I have read quite a bit of the documentation on the MOTU wiki but the process still seems rather opaque to me
<geser> where are you stuck?
<serialorder> a lot of the technical parts are pretty clear, retrieving a source, applying a change, rebuilding etc...
<serialorder> the hard part is actually finding something that needs to be done, I have looked in launchpad and that is just a bit overwhelming
<geser> have you a software/package where are you interested in? if yes, you could check their bugs for example
 * geser checks if there are some bitesize tagged bugs
<geser> you could also check the pending merges (if you're interested) and work on them (after coordinating with the previous uploader)
<serialorder> im going to look around for that
<geser> there are many tasks so I often have problems to point people to one specific task as it depends on what someone is interested in
<serialorder> I guess I am also not sure of exactly what my interests are, as funny as that sounds
<serialorder> sadly, there is not one package that I am absolutely enamored with or anything
<serialorder> just sort of want to help fix things
<NCommander> hey geser
<geser> Hi NCommander
<NCommander> geser, how goes it?
<geser> good, just to much work has accumulated in the past and this doesn't actually increase my motivation to work on it :(
<nixternal> anyone have a good link for docs that would help me setup my own local buildd here at work?
<nixternal> would love to have a setup similar to what we have now, where people will upload (dput), and then I have to approve or deny the packages
<geser> nixternal: iirc NCommander has already set one buildd up
<nixternal> NCommander: you better help me then :)
<NCommander> nixternal, aka, you want something with a NEW queue, right?
<nixternal> don't want to spend a lot of time doing it, but would like to get it up soon so I can start working on a migration path for our appliances here
<nixternal> NCommander: yes
<NCommander> nixternal, then you want dak
<NCommander> Which kills the "don't want to spend a lot of time doing it" requirement
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> figures
<NCommander> It's not that bad
<NCommander> WHen do you want it by?
<nixternal> next few weeks
<NCommander> actually
<NCommander> WHere are you in the world nixternal ?
<nixternal> I have time to spend on it, just didn't :)
<nixternal> Chicago silly
<NCommander> right
<NCommander> Well
<NCommander> Two choices
<NCommander> We do it at UDS
<NCommander> You give me the couch and I drive to Chicago
<nixternal> that could be a viable option actually
<NCommander> whihc nixternal which one?
<NCommander> nixternal, I can come to Chicago a week and a half from now
<ScottK> nixternal: Careful.  He'll do it.
<NCommander> ScottK, you know me too well :-P
<NCommander> ports.u.c just went down ...
<NCommander> bah
<NCommander> nixternal, ?
<shay> hello
<shay> anyone here involved with Xen support on Ubuntu?
<nixternal> NCommander: get together at UDS possibly
<geser> shay: try #ubuntu-kernel or contacting zul
<NCommander> nixternal, you need a build machine the same architecture(s) you want, a machine to run wanna-build and wanna-persue on, and all buildds must be able to send email
<shay> thanks geser
<nixternal> ya, looking at that now
<leonel> ScottK: not all the patches you sent   can be applied
<leonel> ScottK: still working
<ScottK> leonel: It doesn't suprise me not all of them are relevant to 0.92.1.  Thanks for working on this.  I know it's a lot.
<directhex> NCommander, did you file that armel bug yet, or am i not getting mail from bugs.debian.org?
<NCommander> I hadn't filed the bug yet
<kirkland> geser: cheers!  thanks.
<ryanakca> RainCT: ah... he means to stick some # comments in the patchfile ... ## patch_name.diff by Me <me@foo.bar>\n ## <Description of patch>
<jdong> asac: drive-by: How serious is xulrunner about breaking yelp < 2.22.1-0ubuntu2.8.04.1? I'm guessing backports should rebuild a yelp.
<serialorder> anyone available to answer a quick question?
<directhex> no
<directhex> nobody
<serialorder> its an easy one
<serialorder> i think
<serialorder> I have performed my first merge
<serialorder> I created a new dsc, verified it works with pbuilder and hav created two debdiffs one between the new dsc and the debian dsc and another between the new dsc and the previous ubuntu dsc
<serialorder> Basically I followed this guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<serialorder> problem is I dont know what to do to get it accepted now
<directhex> serialorder, well, file a merge bug on launchpad. that's a good step
<geser> serialorder: now the usual sponsorship process applies, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<serialorder> apparently launchpad is offline for maintenance right now
<savvas> "Launchpad is down from until 23:59 UTC for a code update"
<serialorder> im trying to figure out which files i need to attach in launchpad
<serialorder> when it comes back online fo course
<NCommander> -_-;
<NCommander> emgent, poke
<directhex> bugs.debian.org isn't down though
<NCommander> Now that LP is down ...
<binarymutant> does bugs.debian.org publish their uprecords somewhere?
<ethana2> I wish bugs were things we could just brutally murder with our own bare hands
<ethana2> if my machine sometimes fails to suspend, how do I find out why it did?
<ethana2> Meh, back to figuring out what a watch file is..
<NCommander> etank, a watch file is a file that check against upstream, and notifies Ubuntu Developers when a new updated release is made available
<Yasumoto> so if I've attached a debdiff to a bug
<Yasumoto> is there typically anything else I should do to get it in jaunty/backported to intrepid?
<Yasumoto> (it includes a testcase in the description)
<savvas> I think you have to subscribe the ubuntu sponsors to the bug
<savvas> not sure though
<savvas> and you'll have to wait, since launchpad is down for maintenance :)
<Yasumoto> yeah, haha
<Yasumoto> Otherwise I would have added the link
<Yasumoto> It's a fix for a program called "xournal" which tablet pc users apparently use a lot
<savvas> it will probably make it in jaunty, but as I've seen from other bug reports, it has to stay a bit in jaunty before it gets backported
<Yasumoto> yeah, for sure
<Yasumoto> thanks savvas :)
<savvas> n/p Yasumoto - of course, you can always build a "test" package for intrepid through Launchpad's PPA ;)
<Yasumoto> ah
<Yasumoto> I totally forgot about PPA
<Yasumoto> good idea, that should help a lot :)
<Yasumoto> there's a lot of noise on the bug, some people have added .deb's they've made as attachments
<etank> NCommander: ok??
<etank> oh i see. that was for ethana2 not me
<directhex> NCommander, minor tweak needed to apply against 2.0.1
<directhex> <CIA-5> debian-pkg-mono: directhex-guest * r3774 /mono/trunk/debian/ (changelog patches/00list patches/armel-glibc-2.8.dpatch): Fix armel FTBFS on glibc 2.8
<NCommander> directhex, ah, I didn't check to see if it cleanly applied ;-)
<directhex> NCommander, there's a platform test in there for iphone
<directhex>  #if !defined(PLATFORM_MACOSX)
<NCommander> Ah
<NCommander> No problem
<asac> jdong: gutsy?
<jdong> asac: correct
<asac> jdong: does it cause issues?
<asac> jdong: imo it doesn't interfere with gutsy yelp
<jdong> asac: ok, I think you might be right, the check is probably extraneous
<jdong> I will do some virtual machine testing and see
<jdong> if that's the case then I'll remove that conflicts.
<asac> jdong: what conflict?
<asac> oh ... the conflict came from the hardy package?
<kirkland> kees: ping
<jdong> asac: correct
<asac> yeah. should be dropped in backport then
<asac> all conflicts
<kirkland> kees: i'm working with mikeowens on that bogosec package
<jdong> asac: ok, thanks
<asac> well ... alls app conflicts
<kirkland> kees: i wanted to explain one thing here, regarding your questions about rpm and dpkg-dev ....
<kees> kirkland: ponng
<kees> kirkland: I'm all ears :)
<kirkland> kees: those two utilities are required *only* if you want to use bogosec to scan source packages (.src.rpm's or .dsc files)
<kirkland> kees: that's why i set them as suggests
<kirkland> kees: it'll continue to operate just fine on exploded source trees, and tarballs
<kirkland> kees: perhaps Recommends might be better?
<kirkland> kees: but i don't think Depends is right
<kees> kirkland: fair enough.  it seems like it fails pretty unexpectedly if they're not installed.
<kees> I would agree not Depends.  Recommends might be a better idea.
<kirkland> kees: yeah, i think i might handle that in the source code itself, do a 'which', and explain the situation
<kirkland> kees: coolio, thanks.
<kirkland> kees: also, meet mikeowens ;-)
<mikeowens> kees: hey kees
<kirkland> kees: he's been doing some good work on this one, and conmux;  has a unique interest in packaging things from scratch :-D
<kees> heya mikeowens!  :)
<mikeowens> kees: thanks for the input
<mikeowens> kees: dustin's been great (patient)
<kees> I'm looking forward to getting bogosec in -- I like the idea of keeping a time-line of its output for the other packages.  :)
<kees> mikeowens: cool!  :)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-20
<NCommander> directhex, you can't dput to OBS, right?
<directhex> AFAIK. they have their own tool, called osc
<directhex> which needs mono. hey, we've come full circle! ^_^
<NCommander> directhex,its kinda weird
 * NCommander is talking with the OBS Debian guy
<directhex> NCommander, i know it's weird ^_^
<directhex> NCommander, i've spoken with him before. they had a critical bug with build-depends-indep previously
<NCommander> They sorta reinvented the wheel
<NCommander> They modified the RPM build system to run dpkg-buildpackage vs. rpmbuild
<NCommander> Crazy hack
<NCommander> directhex, what do you think of OBS overall however?
<Tetracomm> Hello.
<Tetracomm> Can someone recommend some automatic tools for creating .deb packages that will make it much easier to make them?
<directhex> NCommander, building packages for more than just ubuntu: awesome (launchpad sucks in that it can't be used for debian collab)
<directhex> NCommander, workflow: like ass. a big ass
<NCommander> directhex, well, maybe we can fix that
<savvas> Tetracomm: such as launchpad PPA ?
<directhex> savvas, i think he wants checkinstall
<directhex> or whatever it's called
<Tetracomm> I want something to create decent .deb packages.
<Tetracomm> I hear that Checkinstall created packages are not accepted into the repositories.
<savvas> for decent deb packages you need to know the debian and ubuntu packaging policies :)
<savvas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
 * Hobbsee quietly chokes on the idea that checkinstalled packages would be acceptable for hte repos.
<Tetracomm> Hobbsee: Tell me more.
<Hobbsee> Tetracomm: it's only very good at simple packages, and guesses all the deps (sometimes getting it wrong)
<Hobbsee> only really works on the local system well, too
<savvas> Tetracomm: https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+archive/ https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<savvas> You can build your packages in a personal package archive, but you have to know how to make them first
<Tetracomm> Hobbsee: What if I tell it the dependencies when it asks?
<savvas> the best way is to play around with deb source packages :)
<Tetracomm> Ok.
<Hobbsee> Tetracomm: it doesn't ask, iirc.
<Hobbsee> but yes, listen to savvas
<Tetracomm> Hobbsee: It asked me the last time.
<savvas> Tetracomm: which program is it?
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  maybe i've remembered wrong, then.
<nhandler> Hobbsee: We really should create a wiki page that explains why checkinstall should not be used to create packages for the repositories. This is a very common question, and it would be much easier to just refer people to a wiki page than to re-explain it each time
<Hobbsee> nhandler: that's true.
<Hobbsee> nhandler: i'd be surprised if there isn't one already though
<Tetracomm> savvas: It was Megatunix, but I will try to package Laoe now
<Tetracomm> .
<nhandler> Hobbsee: I personally haven't seen one before. I'll see what google turns up
<savvas> Tetracomm: link please?
<Tetracomm> To Laoe?
<savvas> http://www.oli4.ch/laoe/ ?
<Tetracomm> Yes.
<nhandler> Hobbsee: This (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckInstall) was the only page I could find on {help,wiki}.ubuntu.com. It doesn't even mention why checkinstall is evil
<Tetracomm> oops]
<Tetracomm> nvm laoe
<NCommander> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey NCommander!
<Hobbsee> !checkinstall
<ubottu> checkinstall is a wrapper to "make install", useful for installing programs you compiled. It will create a .deb package, which will be listed in the APT database and can be uninstalled like other packages. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckInstall - Read the warnings at the top and bottom of that web page, and DO NOT interrupt CheckInstall while it's running!
<Hobbsee> hmmm.   that used to have more warning in it, i though
<Hobbsee> t
<Tetracomm> The package creation process is too complicated. :(
<savvas> Tetracomm: That's why we use humans to make and maintain them. :)
<savvas> Tetracomm: you just want to make this software available as a .deb package for others or to learn how to package?
<Tetracomm> To make it available to others.
<Tetracomm> Although it would be nice to learn how to package, it is too complicated.
<Tetracomm> and i'm going to package Zinf eventually
<Tetracomm> as well as Cmus
<savvas> Tetracomm: file a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/getdeb.net and use "Create Package: LAoE" in the subject *or* (I'm not sure) file a bug for ubuntu https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug and ask for packaging (tag: needs-packaging)
<Tetracomm> I did that for Megatunix months ago and it is taking forever.
<Tetracomm> and I want to contribute
<savvas> I don't see a bug for megatunix in getdeb.net
<Tetracomm> I don't think it was getdeb.net
<savvas> Then try on getdeb.net :)
<Tetracomm> I want to contribute.
<savvas> When they make the package, you can grab the source from http://archive.getdeb.net/getdeb/ and study it
<Tetracomm> Err.
<savvas> ah well then, good luck :)
<Tetracomm> What is the main problem with checkinstall?
<savvas> I think it's too simple and too my-machine-specific
<Tetracomm> I'll try out the new one and see how it works on the live cds.
<savvas> Tetracomm: are you using 32-bit ubuntu?
<Tetracomm> Yes.
<savvas> use your built package on a 64-bit ubuntu made with checkinstall
<Tetracomm> 8.10.
<savvas> I mean, try to install it, I think it won't work
<Tetracomm> Ok.
<savvas> A second reason would be that I believe checkinstall can't make source packages (correct me if I'm wrong)
<Tetracomm> Ok.
<savvas> and source packages are used for easier updates and maintenance, also easier building for various architectures
<Tetracomm> Ok.
<directhex> does LP have a "blocked by" mechanism on bugs?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> only for blueprints
<directhex> damn. I'll just add it in the bug text.
<directhex> good god, a feature bugzilla has which is useful :o
<james_w> what's the fix for when a package uses docbook and it attempts to contact the OASIS website to download the dtd?
<james_w> You can use a local dtd, but I thought there was a better way of doing this than patching the DOCTYPE in each document
<james_w> has anyone done it before?
<savvas> use proxy to link it back to your machine? heh :)
<NCommander> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey NCommander
<savvas> don't ask me how though, just brainstorming :p
<james_w> nellery: hi, are you around?
<persia> nixternal, NCommander for simple build environments, something like debomatic or falcon might be easier than using some of the available more complex infrastructures.
<nixternal> ooh I forgot about falcon
<NCommander> persia, debomatic doesn't have NEW queue
<NCommander> I dunno about falcon
<NCommander> persia, so OpenSuSE Build System actually pretty cool
 * NCommander thinks in many ways it works better than PPAs, and in other ways, its epic suck
<nellery> james_w: hi
<james_w> hi nellery, how are you?
<persia> NCommander, as I said "for simple build environments" :)
<nellery> james_w: I'm alright, you?
<NCommander> persia, reprepro is my favorite
<james_w> nellery: good thanks
<james_w> nellery: I'm looking at your new debdiff
<james_w> nellery: thanks for working on it. I'm wondering why you added inetutils-inetd to the dependencies this time?
<nellery> james_w: that package depends on update-inetd
<nellery> did I get it wrong?
<james_w> nellery: packages shouldn't depend directly on update-inetd, they should depend on inet-superserver and expect that that package provides update-inetd
<james_w> as these packages already depend on inet-superserver I don't think you need to add anything
<nellery> james_w: so that change should just be removed?
<james_w> I believe so
<james_w> my other question is why these packages depend on netkit?
<nellery> james_w: do you mean netbase?
<james_w> yeah, sorry
<nellery> james_w: it doesn't appear that this was documented in the changelog
<james_w> yep
<nellery> james_w: is there any way to figure out where this change was made?
<james_w> you can examine all the old packages
<james_w> or try and work it out
<james_w> it's not too important, but if we don't find out then we are kind of stuck with it
<nellery> james_w: I think I've found the change
<nellery> bug 123782
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 123782 in heimdal "heimdal-kdc should depend on some inetd" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123782
<nellery> which would be in 0.7.2.dfsg.1-10ubuntu2
<james_w> netbase was added before that apparently
<james_w> or it might have been in an old version of the Debian package, and then not removed by Ubuntu when Debian removed it
<nellery> james_w: it doesn't appear to be mentioned in the Debian changelog either
<nellery> james_w: about bug 298496, should i remove the dependency on libxi-dev, or wait?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298496 in anyremote "Please merge anyremote 4.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298496
<james_w> I'm not sure
<james_w> I hit the same problem with another package yesterday, but I think it's a bug in XTest
<james_w> I haven't yet checked for bug reports
<persia> A new libxi-dev has been uploaded that includes the required Xinput.h
<persia> (unless this is a different problem with libxi-dev)
<james_w> I'm not sure that's the same bug
<persia> Hmm.  Test date is the 18th, and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/jaunty-changes/2008-November/000827.html is the 19th.
<persia> It was reported in -devel recently that upstream was moving the file around.  Mind you, it might also be the way XTest works.
<james_w> nellery: I've got to sleep now, I'll review any debdiffs in the morning. Thanks for perservering.
<nellery> james_w: alright, and thanks a lot for your help
<ScottK> wgrant: Did you file a "If I wanted to be contacted I would have published a way to contact me" bug on LP yet?
<ScottK> jono: There's a flip side to the hall of fame.  People that get left out, can feel demotivated.
 * Hobbsee smashinates akregator into the middle of next millenium.
<ScottK> Trouble?
 * ScottK guesses he better start insiting that all uploads he sponsors are have all the proper paperwork filled out in LP so he can get 'credit' for sponsoring.
<ScottK> Much like '5 a day', I suspect the hall of fame will not generally motivate the behavior we actually want.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it dropped my planet.u.c feed again
<persia> ScottK, Given the wide variety of experimentation with sponsoring, especially in light of widely publicised plans to demonstrate alternate defaults for a possible change, you'd do a lot better to support alternate models.
<ScottK> persia: I've had less than 8 hours sleep in the last two days.  You'll need to be clearer.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ah, so i *wasn't* the only one who didn't understand that.  Good.
 * Hobbsee notes that it sounds a lot like making Ubuntu more like a school yard.
<persia> ScottK, There's been a lot of talk about things like switching to bzr for packaging.  You'd probably get a fair bit of support from that crowd if you support alternate sponsoring workflows.
<persia> ScottK, That said, I've not inspected the hall-of-fame code.  Perhaps it uses .changes files to identify sponsoring, rather than bugs.
<ScottK> persia: I see.  If I support that workflow, sure, but I tend to do a fair amount of "pastebin me the debdiff" or mail me the patch.
<persia> ScottK, See, the point is to get the community of people who use any sort of alternate workflow to make sure that it's using -changes parsing rather than bug review.
<ScottK> persia: True.  I haven't either, but given the terminonolgy used it seems likely it's tied to LP bugs.
<ScottK> Ah.  I see.
<persia> You may disagree with the bzr crowd about their workflow, but you support their right to have alternate workflows.
<ScottK> persia: Absolutely.
<persia> Further, by doing this, they may more support your right to have alternate workflows.
<Hobbsee> Yay for pointing out people who do well, but I hate to think how some people's egos (or whatever other terms should be used there) are going to hurt when they don't get a mention.
<ScottK> persia: I also like how individual source packages get described as 'projects'.
<persia> ScottK, There are several issues.  Pointing them out is probably best in mail.  I'm just encouraging you to start from a direction where there is already a current of support.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Well all it does is point out quantity.  This may or may not equate to 'well'.  At least one person on the bug triagers list commonly marks bugs "Invalid" with the comment "Already reported", but doesn't bother to dupe them or answer when the reporter asks for a pointer to the bug.
 * persia plans to ignore HoF completely, as 5-a-day.  Neither seems to serve a useful purpose, but I strongly support people building tools to better review activity or find issues in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> persia: I support that too.  I just wish the effort that's gone into HoF or 5-a-day would have been used for such tools.
<persia> ScottK, I see those as attempts at such tools.  That I don't find them useful is a different issue.
<persia> Similar to gaspa's fairly pretty NBS monitor.  It's not widely used because most of the NBS crowd didn't find it useful, but it was worth doing to try to better understand the problem.
<ScottK> persia: They are attempts at motivational tools.
<persia> Ah.  I see them as less than ideal "review activity" tools.
<persia> Any motivational tool which causes individuals to compete doesn't seem ideal to me.  If they are indeed intended as motivational tools, I think they support entirely the wrong behaviour.
<ScottK> Ironically some of these tools can have unintended consequences.  I have an LP karma ceiling I use to monitor myself and make sure I'm not spending to much time on bugs.
<ScottK> persia: Agreed.
<jono> ScottK, the vast majority of the community won't appear on the  HoF so I don't think there is a risk of much demotivation
<ScottK> jono: That's exactly why it's demotivating.
<jono> ScottK, ?
<jono> so you expect that the majority of the community will appear in a bunch of top 10 lists?
<jono> I disagree
<ScottK> jono: HoF appears to be a list of the top people doing the work that's important to Ubuntu.
<jono> yes
<ScottK> jono: There's virtually no chance I could appear on such a list.  Ergo the work I'm doing, must not be important.
<jono> ScottK, oh come on
<jono> ScottK, you may feel that way, but I doubt others will
<ScottK> jono: Perhaps.
<ScottK> jono: How does it calculate sponsorship?
<jono> speak to Daniel about the details
<ScottK> OK.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: I think it's just an excuse for people to be put on different levels in the Ubuntu community.  It makes people less equal, and is divisive.  The more people care about it, the more divisive it becomes.  I don't see why Ubuntu, which has a great appeal as not being a discriminatory project, and doesn't tend to have cliches, keeps moving forward in implementing this kind of thing.  Good on them, though, for improving on 5-a-day, and
<Hobbsee> making it count more than just bugs!
<NCommander> +1 Hobbsee
<jono> heh
<ScottK> Well if I wanted to rank high on 5 a day, it's easy enough to do so.  It wouldn't make the distro better though.
<nellery> how often is the "Featured Contributors" part supposed to change?
<jono> nellery, no fixed amount, I would hope at least once a month
<persia> I like the idea of "Featured Contributors", but would have preferred it on the fridge, where I'm already looking for stuff.
<ScottK> jono: I seriously think focusing on listing how many of something (like bug comments) is going to encourage people to churn through large volumes of crap.  It's not what we need.
 * Hobbsee notes the golden pony awards had similar problems, towards the end.
<jono> ScottK, where are bug comments the metric?
<jono> you mean sponsors?
<ScottK> jono: It's also in 5 a day and top karma.
<jono> I think you guys are taking the Hall Of Fame a little too seriously
<jono> we were counting metrics for 5-a-day and the Ubuntu community did not melt
<jono> we are merely showcasing top ranking contributors - it really does help enthuse people
<jono> maybe not you, but others
<Hobbsee> jono: the counting metrics, as such, isn't the problem.  it's then what you *do* with that information.
<jono> Hobbsee, we put it on a website, called the Hall Of Fame :)
<jono> by producing the Hall Of Fame we have not removed anything from the community
<Hobbsee> jono: so all those, along with all the horsemen are famous, and other people are mere mortals.
<jono> if people don't like it, don't look at it
<jono> Hobbsee, crap
<persia> jono, Actually, 5-a-day did a lot to decrease the value of many bug comments, and was a significant factor in the division of "triagers" and "developers" which had previously been more of a continuum.
<persia> Didn't "melt" anything, and has been a useful tool to get new people involved, but came at a cost.
<Hobbsee> persia: ++. I saw a *particularly* good one in the last week.
<jono> persia, I disagree
<persia> jono, Fair.
<jono> I disagree that 5-a-day has been detrimental to bug quality
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/219944 - first comment.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219944 in apt "admin should at least see a warning once for new required packages not installed on the system, even though they've removed the metapackages?" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<jono> but it has brought more focus on bugs
<ScottK> jono: I think something certainly has.  I'm not sure I know what.
<persia> jono, Well, we get a lot more activity.  We get less deep thought.  I'm not sure how that balances out.
<Hobbsee> whether that's bringing in new people, and not training them up enough, or something else is...
<jono> ScottK, very possibly, but many things affect out community, from new initiatives like the HoF, to blog entries, to the availability of resources, to negative energy
<jono> Hobbsee, don't be a troll
<jono> if you have something constructive to suggest, say it, but don't troll
<ScottK> jono: She's not.  You're just not very open to honest feedback.
<Hobbsee> jono: not trolling.  Explain how that bug is *possibly* helpful.
<Hobbsee> s/bug/response/
<jono> ScottK, I am open, but accusing us of not training people up sounds like trolling
<jono> maybe I misinterpreting her comments
<persia> jono, The accusation is not to you.
<jono> ScottK, and as for not liking feedback, I have always been open to feedback
<jono> ScottK, is there an example of when I have  not been open to feedback?
<Hobbsee> jono: well, then, if they *are* being trained, then why do they give bug answers like that?  That got a comment, and marked invalid, before it got brought up in -bugs.
<persia> jono, It's that bug triagers aren't being as carefully trained as in the past.  That's something for which a *lot* of people share the burden, including all participants in this conversation.
<jono> Hobbsee, there are  lots of bad comments in community, irrespective of training
<jono> persia, I agree
<Hobbsee> jono: so you're just attributing it to "the community occasionally is shit"
<persia> To me, 5-a-day appears to have led to more bug comments, and to fewer questions in #ubuntu-bugs about how things work.
<jono> Hobbsee, what do you think?
<Hobbsee> persia: and it seems to me that questions in -bugs, particularly during the au day, aren't being answered.
<persia> It also appears to have decreased the number of people who are working on the bugs who care about fixing them.  They appear to care more about getting the bug into the right commented shape.
<Hobbsee> persia: ++
<persia> Hobbsee, Well, you and I should do more about that.
<ScottK> jono: Calling people trying to give you feedback trolls is not an example of openness IMO.
<jono> ScottK, it appeared like trolling to me
<jono> if not, I apologise
<jono> and when people do troll, I will call them out
<ScottK> jono: No one here is trolling, we just feel very differently than you on some points.
<Hobbsee> jono: well, I think there has to be a reason for it, and I think that trying to attribute it to "the community makes bad comments sometimes" is pathetic.
<jono> I have to be honest though, with you ScottK and Hobbsee there is always such a lot of negative energy
<Hobbsee> jono: i was not intending to troll.
<jono> Hobbsee, then I apologise
<Hobbsee> jono: maybe you look in the wrong places, then.
<ScottK> jono: When was the last time you heard anything negative from me?
<ScottK> jono: Go look at my posts on planet and find a negative one.
<Hobbsee> jono: apology accepted.  Please do not always assume that i'm trolling when I disagree with you.
<jono> Hobbsee, ok
<jono> ScottK, I am talking in general - there seems a greater than often sense of criticism and negative energy
<Hobbsee> persia: I would have thought that those at canonical should, if they're the ones pushing people into working on bugs, too.
<Hobbsee> persia: Often the community members are doing other things, and can't always be relied upon to help.
<jono> Hobbsee, I believe there are reasons for bad bugs, and I am not suggesting that its just "the way it is" - I was asking earlier what you felt could be the cause
<ScottK> jono: Things don't get improved by not talking about problems.
<jono> I would love to see what you guys think so we could investigate
<ScottK> jono: I already told you.  You already told me I was wrong.
<Hobbsee> I note though, there has been some good success on getting the needs-packaging bugs in a more sane state.  The discussions between various members of the MOTU, and the bugsquad, seem have been profitable.
<persia> Hobbsee, See, I don't think it's Canonical's responsibility.  The more that such an attitude spreads, the less Ubuntu is itself.  I like Ubuntu.  I want to keep it.  That means that I, as a member of Ubuntu, need to do things.  I think everyone should feel that way.
<jono> ScottK, agreed - but firstly problems need specific criticism and suggestions for improvements, and secondly, there needs to be a balance - celebrating what we do have and not just focusing on the bad
<Hobbsee> People tend to actually check now if the package exists in debian, before marking it as confirmed & wishlist.
<ScottK> jono: Yes.  And as I pointed out I've recently been blogging on planet and actively trying to celebrate good stuff.
<jono> ScottK, in which case, kudos
<Hobbsee> persia: I agree with you - but I think that people, or groups, that encourage large amounts of contributions in a particular area ensure that they contribute the resources to ensure that area continues to work well, after they've brought more people into it.
<persia> jono, And on that note, while such initiatives are interesting, it might be better to work with various people to define them in the first place, as opposed to introducing such tools that might get criticism.  Building things privately and introducing them as official isn't very Ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> persia: whether that be canonical, or another company that invests in ubuntu, or a new team, or whatever.
<jono> persia, I don't think we acted unofficially, we just built a tool and released it
<Hobbsee> hrm, there should be a 'should' in the above, too.
<jono> persia, people do that in the community all the time too
<persia> jono, That's precisely my complaint.  I'd prefer that you had acted unofficially :)
<jono> heh
<ScottK> jono: I think he has a good point.
<persia> jono, It's announcing something as official without having worked with the affected teams in an open manner that bothers me.
<jmarsden> Comment from a relative newcomer on HoF: I like the "Latest X" part of HoF, it celebrates new people coming on board and becoming more deeply involved.  No so sure about celebrating who is busiest or top 5-a-day or top Lp Karma... Maybe as well as a "featured contributor" there could be a "featured newcomer"  -- interview someone who just became a MOTU/DEveloper/whatever, and find out how they did it, what they liked
<jmarsden>  about the process, etc.
<persia> Most people who build tools say something like "I put together this.  What do people think?  Is it useful?
<jono> persia, where do you draw the line - does every project need to consult extensively while being developed?
<jono> I agree in openness, and I cherish and encourage it, but sometimes in the interests of expediency, its a case of just getting it out there and then soliciting feedback and improving
<persia> jono, No, just anything that's being introduced as "official".  Ubuntu is a very open project.  Very strongly based on consensus.  Anything that is introduced without consensus should, to me, be introduced as a candidate to build consensus, rather than something official.
<jono> I have been clear that I am seeking feedback for improvements
<jono> persia, I disagrewe
<jono> disagree, rather
<persia> I'm *much* happier with the Harvest introduction than with the HoF introduction.  That was presented early, and discussed, and then became more official.
<persia> jono, With what specifically.
<jono> should each package have to be voted on to become official and in the archive?
<persia> Do you believe Ubuntu isn't open?
<persia> jono, Yes.  We do that.
<Hobbsee> persia: in jono's defence, i'm not sure how you'd cover the entire ubuntu pool of contributors, to askthem for feedback, easily, apart from blogging about it.
<jono> I am talking about packages from ubuntu developers
<persia> jono, so am I.
<jono> an ubuntu developer just uploads
<Hobbsee> persia: harvest is just developers, and there are lists to contact them.  HoF is everything.
<jono> surely they need to seek concensus
<persia> jono, *every* package local in Ubuntu has been reviewed by at least two Ubuntu developers, and usually three or four.
<jono> persia, what about updates
<persia> jono, There doesn't exist a single Ubuntu-only package that doesn't have peer review.
<jono> if something is uploaded, it becomes officially, those packages are not checked
<persia> jono, Updates are different.  See, I'm saying that something new should be reviewed.  Once it's there, fixing it is only sensible.
<Hobbsee> jono: how is that relevant,sorry?
<jono> what about bug fixes?
<jono> persia, I disagree - I think its reasonable to put out new ideas and then have people review afterwards
<persia> jono, I agree with that.  I am only saying that such things should be presented as ideas, and not announced as "official".
<jono> I think for core governance we need review as part of the process, but websites can be put out there
<jono> persia, well if it appears on ubuntu.com, it could be percieved as official
<Hobbsee> jono: are you trying to say that "releasing a major community thing" is somehow on par with "uploading a bug fix, or new version of a package", and thus, it's easier to JFDI than solicit opinions from people, so that it gets done?
<jono> but then that makes any content on the wiki official
<Hobbsee> or have i missed the relevance?
<jono> Hobbsee, what I am saying is that the HoF was an idea between Daniel and I, and we did
<jono> it
<persia> jono, Right.  Most other sites appear somewhere else first.  This was true for the ISO tracker.  It was true for harvest.  It was even true to some degree for 5-a-day
<jono> we don't have a lot of time as it is, and if we would have had to seek concensus and spend time on it, it would have never been a justifiable chunk of time
<jono> as such, we threw it out there and requested feedback after the fact
<persia> jono, So you're saying that because you have access to the ubuntu.com domain, you shouldn't have to bother asking others for input before making something official?
<ScottK> jono: That's not really a very Ubuntu attitude IMO.  "Didn't have time to work with anyone, so just did it".
<Hobbsee> persia: who would he ask for input, though?
<persia> Hobbsee, readers of his blog would work for me.
<jono> it was  not a case of didnt have time so just did it anyway, it was a case of having an idea, developing it and releasing it
<Hobbsee> persia: while it does show some *very* interesting reasoning behind some of the horsemen decisions, i think this one would have been ahrder.
<jono> I am sorry if that does not fit with you expectations, but thats what happened
<persia> jono, Do you understand the source of the complaint?
<jono> if there is significant objection to the HoF then we will revoke it - so far, there has been none
<jono> persia, I can see the reasoning, but as I said earlier, I respectfully disagree
<persia> jono, Yes, but you've yet to identify with what you specifically disagree.
<ScottK> jono: I guess we're nobody then.
<jono> all communities will at times develop first and ask for feedback later, and while I think that for the purposes of governance and community growth that is not a bad idea, for periphery elements such as the HoF it is not such a big deal
<jono> ScottK, your words
<persia> jono, Is the perception that foo.ubuntu.com should be perceived as official something with which you disagree?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no, it just means that anyone should be able to put forward an idea, implement it, release it, and stick it on ubuntu.com without actually asking the other communities for input.
<jono> persia, I disagree that everything needs concensus before it becomes official
<jono> this is my opinion, not necessarily the opinion of the Ubuntu project
<persia> jono, That's *how* we do things.  It's precisely contrary to the basis of my understanding of the opinion of the Ubuntu project.
<jono> I agree that most of *.ubuntu.com is official
<ScottK> jono: You said there has been no objection to HoF so far.  I guess I don't know how else to characterize this conversation.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: which, incidently, means that stuff such as the RCbugs, etc, should be very easy to get on ubuntu.com, in future :)
<jono> ScottK, sorry, no issues outside of this discussion
<persia> I don't have much opposition to HoF in and of itself, but I do have strong opposition to the idea that it doesn't take consensus in the Ubuntu project to make an official change.
<persia> jono, So in that light, why does ubuntuwire exist?
<jono> persia, the word "official" is a complex one, and I suspect difficult to define in concensus
<persia> jono, It was specifically rejected as offical, although the tools are very useful to many.
<persia> jono, So it is the perception that foo.ubuntu.com represents the Ubuntu project with which you disagree?
<jono> persia, I think I have been clear
<jono> I believe that most of ubuntu.com and sub-sites are deemed official
<jono> yes
<jono> but some content is not, such as the wiki
<jono> parts of the wiki are official, parts are not
<jono> sorry, I don't have time to debate this right now
<jono> I don't mean to blow you off, but it is 9.15pm here and I supposed to be washing dishes
<jono> if you guys want to discuss this via email, drop me a line
<jono> and I am happy to recieve any and all feedback about the HoF, and for us to discuss it
<Hobbsee> jono: As for the earlier question.  Here's the answer:  "Currently, I think it's a lack of training, and more of an emphasis on getting the bugs in the right states, rather than actually fixing them, like persia said.  Like being encouraged to ask if people can reproduce the problem, rather than being trained to report things upstream, if they're relevant, and to at least try to debug it a bit (such as "does the package exist in debian" for
<Hobbsee> needs-packaging bugs)".  Please respond to me by email, when you have more time.
<bain> what is the procedure to get a package transported to debian once we have it in ubuntu?
<bain> i am currently trying to get a package in jaunty, and iulian is helping me with it, however i would like to get a heads up on above
<jono> Hobbsee, I agree that training is a big issue, do you have any thoughts on how we can fix it?
<persia> bain, Check the BTS for an RFP or ITP.  If it exists, work with that bug.  If it doesn't exist, file an ITP, prepare a debian revision, and upload to Debian.  If you can't upload to Debian, put it on mentors.debian.net, and ask debian-mentors@lists.debian.org for upload.  You'll need to commit to maintenance.
<persia> jono, It's mostly a train the trainers thing, and reward the right activities.  Long ago, bug days involved lots of developers, and were focused on closing bugs.  These days they are more about reviewing new bugs, or pushing stuff upstream.
<bain> persia, thanks
<persia> bain, Note that there's no requirement for a package to be in Ubnutu to use that procedure.  It's worth starting in parallel.
<bain> persia, right my thoughts exactly, i was just worried about debian process being too long, so i started with Ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> jono: a few.  But most of them will probably be unpopular.
<RAOF> bain: I haven't found Debian to be a terrible pain, partially because much of the work has been in a fairly small team (pkg-cli-{libs,apps})
<persia> bain, In both cases, it depends on how many developers feel like sponsoring stuff, and either is extended by issues with the packaging.  Either can be quick, or long, and which is faster is a hard question to answer at any time.  Debian is usually perceived as better though.
<persia> Hobbsee, You registered a retaining-developers spec.  Perhaps you have time to put together a bug-to-fix-workflow-improvement one?
<Hobbsee> jono: perhaps not *that* unpopular.  But will still require people sitting down and admitting there's an issue, and open to suggestions and collaboration on how to fix it - then actually doing the work in fixing it.  This would involve updating things like documentation based on the progress that has been made, emailing everyone saying "this is just a reminder on how it should be done.  here's the crash course", then making sure people are
<Hobbsee> around to actually help out, and people watching to make sure others *are* giving out the revised, now correct, information.
<persia> Especially with the growing popularity of PPAs, we aren't seeing as many patches as patches, and the old procedures aren't throwing a very wide net.
<bain> RAOF, well i am not talking about community/debian side delays per say, ubuntu just felt faster for various things including getting to understand packaging and finding documentation
<Hobbsee> jono: If people are unwilling to do the last couple of parts, then the entire thing is null and void.  So the first question is...are people (including canonical members, as they're the team pushing lots of people into bugs) willing to?
<Hobbsee> persia: that's a point.
<bain> But i am convinced debian process is worth starting early now that i am slightly more comfortable with packaging, thanks you people
<Hobbsee> persia: (willing to help out?)
<Hobbsee> persia: I guess there would be a lot of current themes between them.
<persia> Hobbsee, In a distracted fashion.  I've a stack of stuff to do in the next couple days, including sending an announcement about my fast approaching inability to access the network for a couple weeks.
<Hobbsee> persia: well, i've got 3 exams in the next 2 weeks, so i'm not around much either.  Will think on it.
<persia> Maybe just a hallway discussion then, or perhaps it could be raised as a topic for someone to grab in the next QA meeting
 * persia wishes this had come up yesterday, as that would have been better timing
<Hobbsee> persia: Are they convinced it's actually an issue?
<persia> Dunno.  I haven't seen it discussed in a couple months.
<persia> There was a hallway discussion about it in Prague, with a number of interested parties.
<Hobbsee> If heno and such don't see it as an issue, then raising it, to try and get it fixed, is a waste of time and energy.
<Hobbsee> was heno there?
<persia> heno had some interest in Prague towards improving the fix ratio, but that may not translate into action items without further discussion.
<Hobbsee> the fix ratio.  Right, hmmm...
<persia> On the other hand, such a discussion could already be planned.  I haven't seen too many of the QA track specs on LP yet.
 * bain is away: "work"
 * ScottK is away: "sleep"
 * Hobbsee is here: "studying"
<persia> Hobbsee, Right.  The problem is that there exist fixes to bugs that aren't in the repos.  There are likely a wide number of opinions about the solution.
<persia> It's that discussion that's likely worthwhile to have, and put together a list of candidate solutions and easy action items to try towards improving the situation.
<ScottK> Darn.  Just remembered....
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, right.  I thought the current discussion was that people were 'triaging' things the wrong way, and needed to be trained how to do it right, and be more useful
 * ScottK is away: "cleaning the kitchen - then sleeping"
<Hobbsee> this sounds like facebook onto irc...
<persia> Hobbsee, I perceive that to be one element of the larger issue.  Adjusting triage training to focus on getting bugs to Fix Released would help with the fix ratio.
<persia> On the other hand, that focuses on the actual problem, rather than on what we perceive to be one of the causes.
<jono> sorry Hobbsee, had to step away
<jono> Hobbsee, I agree, training is where we need to focus our efforts
<Hobbsee> persia: er, define "that" please?
<persia> I don't have enough specicic complaints with the current documentation to think "Fix the documentation and practices" is a useful session.
<jono> and I also believe that we need to focus on fixing bugs as opposed to just triaging
<jono> Hobbsee, do you feel that more education is the solution?
<persia> Hobbsee, rephrased: discussing the fix ratio focuses on the actual problem...
<Hobbsee> persia: well, if the documentation is right, the focus then switches to "so, how do we get this into people's heads, including current contributors who don't know of the changes, and probably haven't read the wiki in ages, and wouldn't even know where to *start* reading for finding out *just* the changes, and don't have time to read the entire thing"
<Hobbsee> persia: ah, right.
<Hobbsee> persia: (I just didn't want to assume that the documentation was perfect, when i've not read all of it recently, so gave it the benefit of the doubt)
<Hobbsee> jono: yes, for existing people as well.
<persia> Right.  It's looking at the whole picture, and identifying what bits need help (documentation, practices, #ubuntu-bugs staffing, etc.).
<jono> Hobbsee, where do you feel we need to focus the most education on? is it packaging skills or knowledge of upstream code?
<jono> or some altogether different area?
<persia> I'd focus on understanding troubleshooting techniques.
<Hobbsee> persia: I see it as a huge problem that this stuff keeps changing, but there's no equivalent of what ubuntu-devel-announce@ is supposed to be (and somewhat fails at - it's going to be in my other spec), where people can get a quick guide on the changes of culture and practices, without having to read the entire wiki.
<Hobbsee> persia: which means a whole bunch of people are triaging according to info they learnt a few years ago.
<persia> I'd also focus on better ways to help identify bugfixes to developers, and practices including testing patches from upstream or other sources to verify a given patch works.
<Hobbsee> (which is *probably* why a lot of established people abuse the bug statuses at times, i'd expect!)
<persia> Hobbsee, Hrm.  That's an interesting point.
<Hobbsee> persia: I, at least, run mostly on triaging information that I learned back in 2005.
<persia> I've also seen a number of long-term people surprised by new tools.  Organising that better would help.
<Hobbsee> and that was KDE stuff.
<Hobbsee> so, that was basically stuff I learned in bugzilla (KDE and firefox), and translated to here by a common-sense approach.
<Hobbsee> I don't think i'm alone in that.
<jono> Hobbsee, persia and ScottK, would you be willing to send me an email with which areas you feel like we need more developer education
<jono> I would love to have something in my inbox I can work from
<Hobbsee> while it means I get most of the stuff right, i'm fully aware that there are some weird and wonderful policies, which mean people do things that I don't think make sense, but just ignore
<jono> I have been thinking a lot about developer education too recently
<persia> jono, Honestly, I'm not going to get to such an email until after UDS.  My apologies.
<Hobbsee> jono: i don't thinkit's packaging as such.  it's about thinking what needs to be done, what's most helpful to do, and how to go about doing that.
<jono> persia, no problem
<persia> jono, And it's not just developer education.  It's developers, triagers, etc.
<jono> persia, I mean developers in the general sense - triagers, packagers, programmers etc
<jono> Hobbsee, you mean how work is divided between contributors?
<persia> Let's extend that to new community entrants with interest in the code as well.
<jono> sure
<persia> jono, Would you be able to organise a UDS session to cover some of this, and maybe help break it down into actionable items on which we can all work?
<persia> Dunno if it's really QA track or Community track, but either would probably work.
<jono> persia, this is part of the reason I am keen to recieve what you feel are areas of needed focus
 * persia will try to put together a bullet list in the next bit, but apologises in advance for the lack of depth to such an email.
<Hobbsee> jono: no - but focussing on things like "how can i make this bug get fixed fastest?"  "i test this bug, i see if the issue is still here, unless someone else can confirm it, then I file it upstream, and can see these general hints on ettiquite on filing bugs upstream.  If I think it's something critical for release, I do the appropriate procedures (which change all too often, but are starting to make more sense!)"
<jono> persia, summaries would be fantastic, thank you
<Hobbsee> jono: not "how can i touch this bug, and get 5-a-day-cred for it, and move onto the next one, so I can beat the stats?"
<jono> Hobbsee, these are two separate issues I believe - on one hand you are talking about best practise and on the other hand you are talking about stopping people gaming the system
<jono> both are worthwhile areas of focus
<Hobbsee> jono: Well, if people are following the best practice, then the 'system' of 5-a-day becomes less important.
<persia> Gaming the system is only meaningful when there is competitive scoring.  In the absence of such competition, there's no motivation for gaming.
<Hobbsee> jono: what might be interesting, instead, is if 5-a-day took a longer approach, and tracked how people got bugs through to fix-released, or to filed-upstream
<Hobbsee> persia: exactly.
<jono> Hobbsee, that depends - the success of 5-a-day is in making bugs feels manageable, but there still needs to be a strong emphasis on quality - and if 5-a-day (or anything else) comprimises quality, we need to be able to resolve that
<jono> Hobbsee, thats a great idea
<jono> Hobbsee, but it should be focused on triaging imo
<Hobbsee> I think that sort of thing would help a *lot* with this
<jono> 5-a-day I believe is really a strong idea for encouraging triaging
<Hobbsee> but that does require what I said above - that everyone knows how to go about doing that in the best way, that the best ways are documented and followable, and that someone checks for hte first while that people are actually doing what they're supposed to do.
<Hobbsee> 5-a-day is a good concept, if it's focussed on acheiving the right goals.
<Hobbsee> jono: so, make it be for bugs that get filed upstream, and make sure that people fully understand what htey should, and should not, file upstream.
<jono> even with the best documentation and best practice, I suspect we will still have people who game the system
<jono> which is why I think it could be valuable to discuss how we can improve the system with regards to quality
<Hobbsee> jono: well, that depends then on what gets officially chosen to focus on.
<jono> anywhoo, I best run
<jono> thanks for the feedback
<Hobbsee> have negative points for those who get triaged wrongly, or something.
<jono> Hobbsee, I was thinking about that too
<jono> possibly a moderation system for comments
<jono> anyway, best run
<jono> take care folks
<Hobbsee> jono: book a session at UDS about it, please.
<jono> Hobbsee, will see what I can do
<Hobbsee> (if you haven't already)
<dholbach> good morning
<fcestrada> dholbach: Good Night
<dholbach> night fcestrada
<Hobbsee> persia: thankyou
<persia> Hobbsee, Please expand on that.  It's **really* minimal, but what I could produce quickly.
<iulian> bain: Commented
<slytherin> bain: you from India. :-)
<bain> slytherin, yes
<bain> iulian, am at work will take a look when i am back home
<iulian> It's sometimes confusing when you have "Advocate this upload" on REVU when you're not a dev.
<iulian> Can someone fix that please?
<iulian> bain: Sure
<slytherin> iulian: contact NCommander or rainct
<persia> iulian, If you have the button, one of the REVU Admins granted you advocation.
<persia> slytherin, That's really not the answer to every REVU question :)
<iulian> persia: Eh? Wait a moment.
<NCommander> persia, no, the right answer is contact RainCT
 * NCommander fixes iulian's account
<iulian> persia: I cannot advocate. I only have the button present.
<iulian> NCommander: Thanks.
<persia> iulian, Ah, that's extra odd.
<iulian> Indeed
<persia> NCommander, it's an account-specific issue?
<slytherin> persia: No. But I also have that checkbox. And there is no reason why I should have it. So I guess revu is not really checking the permissions.
<persia> NCommander, How can a user get that button if they don't have reviewer permission?  Alternately, if they have reviewer permission, why can't they advocate?
<slytherin> at least while displaying the ui elements
<persia> slytherin, Ah, that probably needs a bug then.
<NCommander> persia, I think RainCT was a little overliberal on giving review permissions
<persia> https://launchpad.net/revu/+bugs
<slytherin> UUS have review permissions, right?
<NCommander> iulian, what's your LP account name?
<slytherin> UUC I mean
<iulian> NCommander: iulian
<NCommander> Nope
<persia> NCommander, Well, there are a fair number of people not MOTU who have reviewer rights for one reason or another, but the button should only appear for those that have such a right.
<NCommander> MOTU or greater
<persia> slytherin, Not as a class, no.
 * iulian agrees
<NCommander> persia, reviewer right means they have the advocate button :-)
<NCommander> and can archive
<persia> NCommander, Right.  What slytherin and iulian are reporting is that they have an advocate button and it doesn't work.
<iulian> Can I also archive uploads? Yaay! supapowers!
<persia> If they are both reviewers, that's a different issue.
<NCommander> RainCT been busy
 * persia is doubtful of granting non-MOTU reviewer access, but has seen it have value in the past for certain people
<NCommander> He's added new permission levels
<NCommander> persia, strictly speaking, I had reviewer status on REVU long before I was UUC :-)
<slytherin> Please help me here. What do you mean by 'Reviewer'. I can add comment, is that 'Reviewing'?
<iulian> slytherin: I suppose the only difference is that you can archive uploads, not sure though.
<NCommander> slytherin, reviewer status means you can archive packages (any package), and Advocate an upload
<NCommander> You shouldn't be able to see the "Advocate This Upload" button
<slytherin> NCommander: Ok. You mean the checkbox, right?
<NCommander> yeah
<persia> iulian, Advocation, rejection, and archiving are the permissions associated with "reviewer"
<slytherin> NCommander: Ok. Then I am seeing it. Which is a bug then.
<Koon> good morning guys
<NCommander> It looks like RainCT split out Admin to Admin and Moderator
<slytherin> Koon: Good morning. After long time.
<NCommander> Moderator can Nuke
<NCommander> Admin can change privilleges
<persia> Right.  Comes from moving a proper Nuke to the UI.
<Koon> slytherin: I've been back for a few days already :)
<slytherin> Koon: Really? I didn't see you here or in #ubuntu-java. :-)
<Koon> tss
<slytherin> Koon: I hope you are planning to start soon on maven work. :-)
<Koon> slytherin: in fact someone is working on it
<Koon> I'll talk about that at the java meeting.
<slytherin> Koon: ok, we can discuss this in today's meeting.
<NCommander> wtf is restricted O_o;
<persia> NCommander, Cannot upload. Cannot comment.  Only to be used in extreme situations.
<NCommander> ever used?
<persia> I don't think we've had a need yet, thankfully.
<persia> I'm glad it's there, in case it is needed, but hope never to use it.
<Laibsch> good morning
<Laibsch> anybody willing to commit the debdiffs I prepared for bug 221010 to -proposed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221010 in mailgraph "homepage for mailgraph has moved" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221010
<Laibsch> same thing for bug 227547
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227547 in wordpress "ubuntu wordpress should suppress the "please update" warning" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227547
<laga> directhex: i bet you love morten kjeldgaard's argument ;)
<slytherin> laga: +1 :-D
<directhex> laga, i'm taking the higher road, and not using any of the pithy comments i could use
<persia> Let's just let that lie.  It's not a constructive mail, but it's also not constructive to complain about it.
<laga> it's hilarious :)
<slytherin> persia: we are not complaining, we are just teasing directhex. :-)
<slytherin> Hobbsee's reply was spot on.
<laga> yes
<directhex> i'm used to it. i've been named as an enemy of freedom by boycott-novell twice already
<slytherin> directhex: you might as well make hat trick for your work on mono packaging. :-)
<directhex> slytherin, i strongly suspect i will. i've been wondering how to score my hat-trick on this
<slytherin> directhex: I wonder if the mono work will make enough free space to put JRE on CD. :-D
<slytherin> geser: there? need to discuss libjdic-java merge.
<handschuh> slytherin: remember uiflite-package? the upstream author refused to make it a separate package
<slytherin> handschuh: yes, you told me.
<directhex> slytherin, the whole jre? i suspect not
<directhex> slytherin, which apps demand java? or just the plugin?
<slytherin> directhex: while there is no plan currently, I hope the OpenJDK JRE can be split in small packages.
<slytherin> directhex: even plugin will need JRE.
<handschuh> slytherin: ok, just wanted to be sure :-)
<directhex> slytherin, i know, but the problem with the plugin is applets need to expect that every single class will be installed - if you have a more mono-like java stack, then desktop apps could depend on partial javas which are smaller
<slytherin> directhex: that is what I thought. I hope someday we will have it ...
<directhex> slytherin, and for desktop apps, i suspect anything which looks clearly non-native will work against you when negotiating with the desktop team. gtk# apps are indistinguishable frmo gtk+ apps, other than the whole .exe and .dll thing
<slytherin> directhex: java has GTK look and feel and it looks nearly native.
<directhex> slytherin, how nearly? it sucked a few years ago
<james_w> anyone know what a ">&" shell redirection is intended to achieve?
<directhex> james_w, in isolation?
<james_w> it seems to work like "&>" in bash/zsh, but fails in dash
<james_w> directhex: "cmd >& /dev/null"
<directhex> it's a bashism. non-posix afaik
<directhex> we patch an instance of that in something. can't remember what, but i remember patching it
<slytherin> directhex: let me find the bug about making that look and feel default. I have a screenshot attached there.
<james_w> yeah, just wondered if I was converting it to something with the same meaning
<JonReagan> I got a lintian bug issue... looks like the version number for my app has a dash, which in a native file does not work...  but if I go into the synaptic package manager, I noticed that most have the (e.g 1.4-0ubuntu1) number pattern
<JonReagan> is there something wrong? :-/
<slytherin> JonReagan: what version are you using?
<JonReagan> version?
<Hobbsee> number
<JonReagan> oh, mine is 1.4 of openproj
<Hobbsee> which doesn't contain a -, yes?
<directhex> JonReagan, okay, so what version package are you trying to make?
<JonReagan> yup, no dashes
<Hobbsee> you can use 1.4-0ubuntu1 as the version?
<JonReagan> that's what I used
<JonReagan> but lintian has a problem with that ;)
<JonReagan> which is where I am confused
<Hobbsee> what's the exact lintian error?
<JonReagan> eh, hold on I'll grab the link
<JonReagan> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/openproj-0811200421/lintian
<persia> JonReagan, Most likely it's an issue with your orig.tar.gz
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: are you intending it to be native?
<JonReagan> ah
<JonReagan> well, that's a good question
<JonReagan> the original source could be built for a number of systems
<Hobbsee> is it ubuntu-only?
<Hobbsee> if not, then it shouldn't be native.
<JonReagan> but with some customization, it was built for debian/ubuntu
<slytherin> directhex: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-6/+bug/183139
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 183139 in openjdk-6 "[wishlist] make gtk laf default for icedtea-java" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<Hobbsee> the idea is usually for non-native packages, except in extreme circumstances.
<Hobbsee> such as ubuntu-wallpapers or something
<JonReagan> ah
<JonReagan> so, in that case is there something I need to do to fix it... because I really have no idea :)  It's my first package... i'm a bit of a noob
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: you need to rename the tarball.  See what lintian said:
<Hobbsee> N:   Native source packages are sometimes created by accident. In most
<Hobbsee> N:   cases the reason is the location of the original source tarball.
<Hobbsee> N:   dpkg-source searches for this in
<Hobbsee> N:   ../package_upstream-version.orig.tar.gz.
<Hobbsee> don't repack it, just rename it
<JonReagan> so I need to rename my tarball to .orig.tar.gz
<JonReagan> as the file extension?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> and change the - to a _
<JonReagan> ah... I see
<JonReagan> thank you so much! :)
<Hobbsee> then you can rebuild the source, and you'll get a new file
<Hobbsee> you're welcome!
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: er, note, the file you rename should be the pristine one from upstream, not the one you've gone and modified when you built your native package
<JonReagan> oh ok,... I'll be sure to do that
<JonReagan> well, I gotta run folks.. thanks for the help!
<directhex> slytherin, looks close enough that only obsessive mac users would notice
<slytherin> :-)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<nhandler> Hey bddebian!
<bddebian> Hello nhandler
<iulian> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<geser> slytherin: Hi, you pinged me about a merge?
<geser> Hi bddebian!
<slytherin> geser: yes, I did.
<bddebian> Hey geser
<slytherin> can you please take a look at last 2 changelog entries for libjdic-java and tell me which is the preferred way?
<slytherin> both changes achive same thing.
<geser> slytherin: good question, I believe I had a good reason to change it again. Both uploads were done to fix a FTBFS, so pick a solution which works for both builds (arch+indep and arch-only)
<slytherin> geser: Debian package has moved to openjdk. I think I will use 'set JAVA_HOME' solution so I use same java for both binary-arch as well as binary-indep.
<slytherin> geser: apart from that I need to make few changes and probably patch Makefile for our xulrunner paths.
<geser> slytherin: check first if the change is still needed, some FTBFS resolve themselves
<slytherin> geser: yes it is needed. I tried compiling yesterday.
<geser> ok
<bain> iulian: did all the fixes you asked for :D what do you want me to do later today? :D
<iulian> bain: Yea, I saw, great. I will have a final look at it later on.
<iulian> bain: Is it late there already in India?
<bain> iulian: nope its only 9:30 pm i'll check back in about an hours time
<iulian> OK
<james_w> wow, a flood of MOTU applications recently
<sebner> iulian: WoW, application today and already one +1. I'm waiting since 2 weeks without a +1. dholbach is really a fanboy of yours :P
<sebner> james_w: yes, isn't it
 * james_w wants to send the application for some people if they won't do it themselves :-)
<sebner> james_w: either the MC will kill you or I since my application will be forgotten then :P
<james_w> heh :-)
<sebner> james_w: but a fresh wave with young blood would be nice, wouldn't it? :)
 * liw isn't applying for MOTU (today)
<Laney> dput windows_vista.changes
<Laney> (LP: #1)
<Laney> That's my goal.
<geser> sebner: I try to review applications as a FIFO queue not as a LIFO one :)
<sebner> geser: heh, no stress. it was more of a joke. I waited now 2 weeks, so some days won't kill me :)
<sebner> liw: tomorrow?
 * slytherin pushes vista_like_slow_network_copy.changes to Laney's machine. :-P
<james_w> dput Laney kill3r-v1rus.changes
<slytherin> DktrKranz: that is nice phrase - giving back to "Mama". :_)
<slytherin> :-)
<Laney> :(
<dholbach> james_w: hm?
<james_w> dholbach: eh?
<dholbach> kill3r-v1rus?
<james_w> dholbach: killer virus to own Laney's machine
<dholbach> james_w: I'm not sure that's CoC compliant, my friend
<james_w> sorry
 * dholbach spanks james_w in a CoC-friendly way
 * james_w is spanked
<james_w> sorry Laney
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I deserved it
<jdong> am I the only one  to feel the native 64-bit Flashplugin still segfaults obscenely?
<directhex> jdong, it does
<directhex> jdong, but less than nspluginwrapper, IME
<directhex> i.e. thedailyshow.com can be viewed if you're lucky, rather than not at all
<radix> the nice thing about nspluginwrapper is that it generally doesn't take down the entire browser
<jdong> directhex: some sites still consistently cause 100% segfaults
<jdong> directhex: while nspluginwrapper it tended to be a random option
<radix> does the new 64bit flashplugin crash the entire browser?
<jdong> radix: yup
<jdong> SIGSEGV in firefox itself
<radix> dang
<jdong> apport has a field day
<jdong> and eventauully comes up with ??? (????????) in libflashplayer.so
<jdong> yay!
<jdong> for now I'm STILL running a nasty 32-bit schroot for the browser.
 * directhex has a "swiftfox" tarball in /opt on his hardy machines
<jdong> *cringe*.
<jdong> I can't believe you people use those things
<radix> I have been reasonably happy with nspr since hardy
<directhex> it was more reliable than an upstream tarball
<directhex> which was less stress than a chroot
<radix> I mean, not *really* happy, but enough that I'm not doing chroots or 32bit firefox or whatever
<jdong> directhex: "Please also note that the licensing restrictions were put in place to safeguard Swiftfox users against the possibility of obtaining tainted versions from anyone who may wish to maliciously alter the binary and redistribute it." from upstream's site.
<jdong> that statement of ignorance makes me cringe at trusting binaries from the vendor.
<directhex> jdong, eh? i should read moar
<jdong> directhex: http://getswiftfox.com/source.htm
<jdong> directhex: it's binary-only licensed so that means it CAN'T BE TAMPERED WITH!!11
<jdong> it's not possible to attach malicious executable code to binaries. Nope. Can't be done.
<directhex> all over a 152 line diff?
<directhex> at any rate, for whatever reason, the upstream binary builds crash much moar for me than swiftfox does. but only on some computers. it's all a bit sucky, really
<jdong> directhex: that diff is a joke
<jdong> directhex: it is IMO *CLEARLY* not swiftfox's complete set of changes
<jdong> I see two changes to *.js that are simple options in about:config
<jdong> that can't even begin to explain the changes in swiftfox.
<directhex> i await a browser which manages to not suck
<jdong> +pref("network.http.pipelining.maxrequests" , 8);
<jdong> jeez.
<eMerzh> if someone want to review my package (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman)
<bain> iulian: cosmetic typos fixed (spaces after ':' ) and the empty directories are squashed (were not getting cleaned added to qmake stuff)
<bain> iulian: whats the next step?
<iulian> bain: The next step is to find a motu to review and advocate your package, if they don't find any other issues of course.
<bain> iulian: ok thanks for your help so far... i gather that you have applied to be a motu yourself ;-)
<iulian> Indeed
<iulian> Well, I'm going outside for a half an hour or so, don't feel so good.
<bain> ok
 * bain goes on motu hunting
<ia> hello, everybody. correct me, if i wrong - if for installing from tarball should do ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make && make install (instead traditional ./configure && make && make install), then within debianization such tarball i should add in debian/rules file in section "build" before ./configure --prefix=/usr line "./autogen.sh", right?
<persia> ia, Whether to run something like ./autogen first is more about whether ./configure exists from the tarball.
<persia> Also, there's two different philosophies to answer your question:
<persia> Some people like to run autogen at packaging time, so they run autogen manually, and then use ./configure in debian/rules.
<persia> Others run autogen on the buildds.
<persia> The advantage of the first model is that you can know the contents of ./configure, etc. when the build happens, and make sure autogen ran correctly.
<persia> The advantage of the second model is that you don't have to think about it (but you may get extra build failures).
<persia> The disadvantage of the first model is that you need to do this regularly, and you may end up reuploading the package just to re-autogen if there is some issue.
<persia> The disadvantage of the second model is that if the toolchain changes between your source upload and your build, the build may do something completely unexpected.
<ia> persia: i've got it. thanks for information :-)
<persia> ia, No problem.  Thanks for asking.
<stefanlsd> persia: hi!
<persia> stefanlsd, Hi!
<stefanlsd> persia: Just wanted to say have a fun time away - and can i have your merges :)
 * persia thought there was only one left, and looks again
<stefanlsd> actually, looks like matchbox-window-manager only for now anyway
<persia> Hrm.  Wonder why lash didn't sync yet
<persia> stefanlsd, Take a quick look at that.  If you don't run away screaming, and you want to try to do it in the next 48 hours, you can have it.
<stefanlsd> matchbox-window-manager? ok. will look at it
<persia> Bother.  Lash needs manual effort.
 * persia will deal with lash now
<stefanlsd> persia: see what you mean bout matchbox. heh.
<persia> stefanlsd, Yeah.  It's special.  I'm TIL, but I didn't do most of that, and haven't quite figured it out.
<persia> I might end up looking for help on it myself, so I'm just not sure it's one that is good unless you're really a user.
<sebner> persia for holidays \o/
<persia> Maybe.  It's on my list of stuff I'd like to do before I go, but it's not at the top, and it's something I can put on my laptop for later.
<persia> On the other hand, the point is to get outdoors and away from the computer, so I'm not sure how effective I'll be
<stefanlsd> persia: it wouldnt really change much, as the merge is a -2 to -3 and the debian change was just a man page?
<stefanlsd> persia: noo, dont do any work while youre away
<persia> stefanlsd, Hrm.  Good point.  I've been so worried about trying to understand the Ubuntu mess I hadn't really investigated the Debian change.  Thanks for the hint.
<persia> stefanlsd, Hrm.  Different upstream versions with different ways of producing tarballs.
<stefanlsd> persia: why is that?
<persia> stefanlsd, Because the two packagers had different ideas?
<persia> stefanlsd, Looking through upstream SVN, there's a heap of changes between 20080701 and 20080918.  I think I will be doing it on-and-off on holiday.
<stefanlsd> persia: mm. oki  :)
 * persia dislikes tarball-in-tarball harder
<stefanlsd> persia: seems strange that so much stuff was merged in. (although i cant really say as I dont even know what Meemo is).
<persia> Maemo is the system used on the Nokia tablets.  That team did some interesting work to help improve the experience on that form-factor.  That got adopted for Ubuntu MID.
<persia> But since Maemo hasn't gotten everything upstream yet, and we're pulling sideways, and Debian is pulling true, it's a bit confused.
<persia> So a proper merge is against the new upstream, updated Debian, updated Maemo, and Ubuntu variation.
<persia> Otherwise it would have already been done :)
<stefanlsd> yeah. does ubuntu-mobile still exist?
<persia> As a team, yes.  As a flavour, no.
 * directhex wonders how update the maemo-mono packages are
<directhex> ;)
<persia> directhex, Dunno.  Feel like finding out, and creating the necessary bits to make Mono first-class on MID?
<persia> stefanlsd, Essentially, the Mobile Team first worked on something that everyone is currently calling "Mobile Internet Devices", and "Mobile" means mobile phone to most people, so it was renamed to Ubuntu MID.
<stefanlsd> persia: for this merge, why not just assume things are still ok (should be) why look at svn upstream?
<persia> Then the Mobile Team started working on something that everyone calls "Ultra-Mobile Personal Computers", and "Mobile" still means mobile phone to most people, so it was renamed to Ubuntu UMPC.
<directhex> looks like it hasn't seen any love for a while
<persia> stefanlsd, Because Ubuntu has an svn snapshot from 20080701 and Debian has an svn snapshot from 20080918, and it's easier to look at SVN revision history than try to read the diff between those.
<directhex> tek-nik-ly though, the question is over the UI for things, right? because lpia packages are built - even on my backport PPA
<stefanlsd> persia: where do you see that they were built from different snapshots?  wouldnt they be on matchbox-window-manager_1.2.orig.tar.gz ?
<persia> Oh.  I've been looking at matchbox-keyboard
 * persia is excited at the concept that this nightmare might belong to someone else
<stefanlsd> hehe
<stefanlsd> you def do need a holiday :)
<joaopinto> where can I check the watch file format ?
<joaopinto> does uscan depend on file listing available on http/ftp server ?
<persia> joaopinto, man uscan.
<persia> It has two modes.  In the first mode, it does depend on that.  In the second mode, it can screen-scrape http sites.
<stefanlsd> how can we let other people know that we have some spare time to assist with syncs & merges?
<persia> stefanlsd, Sorry.  Distracted.  Yes, feel free to grab matchbox-window-manager.
<stefanlsd> persia: np. will prep a merge.
<ScottK> stefanlsd: Feel free to take spambayes too.
<persia> stefanlsd, Extra points if you file a bug in the BTS with the code changes (no changelog) of http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17645376/matchbox-window-manager_1.2-2ubuntu1_1.2-2ubuntu2.diff.gz for me along with an explanation as to why this is useful.
<persia> stefanlsd, And the way to say you are available is to ask here.  People will give you work :)
<joaopinto> the download url is http://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/download/amoebax-0.2.1.tar.bz2
<joaopinto> my rule is http://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/download/amoebax-(.*)\.tar\.bz2
<joaopinto> uscan is trying to fetch http://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/download/
<joaopinto> what's wrong ?
<persia> Right, but http://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/download/ doesn't work.  You'll  need to use the three argument form, and screen-scrape ttp://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/
<stefanlsd> persia: mm. was wondering if there could be a better system of working out if some people no longer have time to do there merges and not online or around to say so?
<stefanlsd> ScottK: will have a look at it
<persia> stefanlsd, Perhaps, but if you've extra time, and are just looking for something to do, UEHS is generally unclaimed.  Just update someting from there.
<joaopinto> persia, I don't see anything about "screen-scrape" on the uscan man page
<persia> This is a variant HTTP format which allows direct specification of
<persia> Look for that string.  It's near there.
<stefanlsd> UEHS into debian i presume?
<persia> Or for a longer explanation, look for "There are two possibilities for the syntax of an HTTP  watchfile" and read the paragraphs below.
<persia> stefanlsd, UEHS into Ubuntu.  For stuff not in Debian, if you're up for maintaining it, doing an ITP is encouraged.
<persia> For stuff already in Debian, providing a debdiff for bugfixes, etc. to the BTS for the QA team is appreciated, including debdiffs for new upstream versions.
<persia> (not raw debdiff, but the relevant changes to bring the packaging up-to-date)
<stefanlsd> persia: ok. cool
 * RainCT sights after seeing a text called "HACKERS" in his English schoolbook :P
<joaopinto> http://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/download.html    amoebax-([\d\.]*).tar.bz2
<joaopinto> shouldn't it fetch the page and then scan for links to amoebax-([\d\.]*).tar.bz2 ?
<persia> yes, but since the string is http://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/download/amoebax-0.2.1.tar.bz2, it doesn't find it.
<persia> You need to provide some more guidance for the last bit.
<joaopinto> but the download page is not a component of the download url, how to I handle that ?
<mikeowens> kees: hey are you busy?
<joaopinto> persia, can you provide me a working rule ?
<persia> joaopinto, Not without a bunch of testing.
<RainCT> joaopinto: if you're pointing to a file with a link, you've to write the full link URL and not just the filename
<persia> Could someone else please help joaopinto with the watch file?
<kees> mikeowens: a little, but what's up?
<RainCT> joaopinto: so I guess it would be:   http://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/download.html http://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/download/amoebax-([\d\.]*).tar.bz2
<joaopinto> RainCT, the full url does not work either, there is no directory listing, the download link needs to be obtained from a download page
<RainCT> joaopinto: see above :)
<mikeowens> kees: just wanted to let you know that all the changes have been made to bogosec and it's uploaded to revu. whenever you get a chance, would you mind taking another look at it?
<joaopinto> RainCT, does not work either
<kees> mikeowens: sure! thanks :)
<mikeowens> kees: thanks back
<handschuh> maybe  http://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/download.html http://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/download/amoebax-([\d\.]*)tar.bz2 works ..
<joaopinto> handschuh, did not
<RainCT> wait! :P
<RainCT> joaopinto: I always do the same mistake... :P   This works:     http://www.emma-soft.com/games/amoebax/download.html download/amoebax-(.*)\.tar\.bz2
<RainCT> joaopinto, handschuh: you have to use the string which is in Â«href=".."Â», in the source code
<joaopinto> RainCT, thanks :)
<joaopinto> where can I check an example get orig source for a release tarball ?
<persia> !tarball
<ubottu> Files with ".tar.gz", ".tar.bz2" or ".tgz" extensions are compressed archive formats, similar to ZIP files. See !tar for extracting them. Some of these files contain programs in source code form; see !compile for getting them to run.
<persia> Darn.
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball
<joaopinto> thanks
<stefanlsd> persia: the diff ensures that matchbox-window-manager satisfies the meta package x-window-manager and sets up an alternative - didnt put it in the bug - #300435
<RainCT> btw, am I the only one for whom Rhythmbox's lyrics plugin doesn't work (ie, it shows the lyrics for a completely unrelated song to the one currently playing)?
<persia> stefanlsd, Hrm?  What does "didn't put it in the bug" mean?
<stefanlsd> persia: didnt put the explanation for extra points
<persia> stefanlsd, Ah, so I still need to file the bug in the BTS?
<stefanlsd> persia: no, will provide debian with that diff and explanation
<persia> stefanlsd, The Maemo patch is already in the BTS, so it's just the x-window-manager patch that needs to go.
<persia> And thank you for taking care of this.
 * persia will upload soon, but needs breakfast first
<persia> bug #300435
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300435 in matchbox-window-manager "Please merge matchbox-window-manager 1.2-3 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300435
<stefanlsd> persia: yup. noticed. np.
 * RainCT answers himself: yeah, there's a LP bug about it :P
<stefanlsd> RainCT: when i went to a disco in germany, its so funny to hear the music they listen too.  - its all the songs they can sing along too!
<stefanlsd> (in english typically)
<joaopinto> there must be an error on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball first get-orig-source example
<joaopinto> it creates a link to the wrong level
<joaopinto> the get-orig-source rule is expected to be executed from the source root dir ?
<joaopinto> and the source dir tarball is expected to be created sourceidr/.. right ?
<RAOF> joaopinto: That sounds right.  Let me have a look.
<RAOF> joaopinto: Ah, right.  The link from the first get-orig-source target is going to be broken, isn't it.
<joaopinto> yes
<joaopinto> Unless I did some typo on my copy&paste :P
<persia> No, it's probably broken.  I didn't test carefully last time I edited, and likely made a mistake.
<joaopinto> revu is a bit slow today
<persia> The hosting sponsor is having network issues.
<emma> handschuh: interesting mis-highlight :)
<joaopinto> 1 minute and waiting to submit comment :\
<joaopinto> I think it's dead
* RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | Grab a merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com | REVU has connection problems
<handschuh> emma: huh ?
<emma> handschuh: your links had emma in it and highlighted me, not a big deal, just making a random remark :)
<handschuh> emma: ah ok
<eMerzh> if someone want to review my package (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman)..i'll be glad to correct it if there is errors :p
<james_w> Hobbsee: have you seen the Debian developer news thing?
<Hobbsee> james_w: no, why?
<Hobbsee> james_w: what's happened now?
<james_w> Hobbsee: oh, nothing
<james_w> http://wiki.debian.org/DeveloperNews
<persia> msg00017 ?
<james_w> it's for collecting small items that don't really warrant a -devel-announce mail, but may be of interest to a large number of developers
<Hobbsee> james_w: oh, neat!
<james_w> they collect them up, and send them out to -devel-announce as one email periodically
<james_w> what do you think of setting up the same thing?
<james_w> you get the wiki page as an archive for free
<ScottK-laptop> Sounds like a better use of time than a Hall of Fame.
 * ScottK-laptop heads home.
<james_w> Thanks Scott, very helpful
<persia> james_w, Wouldn't it be better to encourage people to send stuff like that to the News Team?
<james_w> this would be developer focused items
<james_w> we can always pass along items that would be of interest to a wider audience
<persia> I guess, but even for developer news, I'd think the News Team would have the best infrastructure and practices to handle it.
<persia> I'd much rather work with existing practices and teams than create new ones.
<persia> So perhaps have a developer volunteer to also work with the news team, have all submissions go there, and have the developer filter out a special developer-newsletter from that and some selected traffic on -devel to send to -devel-announce once a month or so.
<persia> What appears interesting to other editors can also go to other fora.
<persia> Saves anyone having to carefully remember to forward things on, or wonder which is the right forum for any interesting piece of news.
<JonReagan> is there a meeting going on?
<Hobbsee> no?
<JonReagan> ah... good
<JonReagan> hello again ;)  I just had a quick question about a package
<JonReagan> the one I was working on earlier... it's a pain.
<JonReagan> I still can't figure out how to raname the tarball... every time I try to pull a REVU upload, the changes file fails to recognize the renamed package
<persia> You want to adjust your directory name, the original tarball name, and the name in the changelog.
<Hobbsee> persia: um?
<Hobbsee> persia: why the first and last?
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: mv tarball.gz foo_1.4.orig.tar.gz?
<persia> Hobbsee, Those are the three bits that have to match for a package to carry the right name, aren't they?
<JonReagan> well, it's the revu... I tried to rename the finished tarball (created after running the dpkg-buildpackage command) to openproj_1.4.orig.tar.gz
<JonReagan> then revu failed...
<Hobbsee> persia: yes, but this is the wrong version (native not normal), rather than the wrong name as such :)
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: why'd it fail?
<JonReagan> well, from what I could tell, the name did not match up somewhere... the only problem is that I could not find where
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: what was the error message?
 * persia defers to Hobbsee, who apparently has more context.
<JonReagan> I can't remember now
<JonReagan> I'll run a quick command and see what I can get
<JonReagan> "Can't open /home/jon/openproj_1.4-0ubuntu1.tar.gz"
<ScottK> james_w: In case it wasn't clear, I think your suggestion is a good one.
<JonReagan> that's the only error when I try to upload to revu
<james_w> ScottK: yes, I understood.
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: did you run 'debuild -sa -S' in the source directory first?
<JonReagan> eh... no I didn't
<Hobbsee> that'd be why you have the problem, then.
<Hobbsee> try that :0
<Hobbsee> * :)
<JonReagan> thanks. I'll give it a shot
<JonReagan> ah, this might be something.... I ran the command you wrote above (debuild -sa -S)
<JonReagan> and it told me that the original source file (with the .orig.tar.gz) was not found
<persia> JonReagan, That's the thing you want to download from upstream (or if you are upstream, prepare without the packaging bits).
<JonReagan> ah, so just download the original from the site
<JonReagan> so, I do not need to do anything to the original file than rename it... I can leave the source code folder that I used to upload to revu alone?
<persia> JonReagan, Let's step back a bit.  Are you upstream?
<JonReagan> eh, no... I don't think so
<persia> OK.  Does upstream provide source in a tar.gz file?
<JonReagan> ah, yes they do
<JonReagan> downloading it right now as a matter of fact :)
<persia> Great.  Download the upstream tar.gz file.  save a copy: this is precious.
<persia> unpack, and do all your packaging.
<JonReagan> k
<persia> copy your precious copy to just under the unpack directory.
<JonReagan> under?
<persia> rename the copy of the precious copy to the package_version.orig.tar.gz format.
<persia> one level less deep.
<directhex> the upstream .tar.gz file should be renamed to the form foomin_1.0.orig.tar.gz where 1.0 is the upstream version, foomin is the app name
<JonReagan> ahh, I see
<persia> So if you're working in /home/jon/src/packaging/myapp-1.0, you want it in /home/job/src/packaging/
<JonReagan> ah, ok
<persia> Make sure your package base directory has the right name.
<persia> Make sure all of debian/changelog, debian/control, debian/copyright, and debian/rules exist.
<james_w> persia: please check I have accurately represented your proposal on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/News, and rewrite to remove any obvious bias that crept in.
<persia> Make sure that debian/copyright has the correct package name and version
<persia> run debuild -S -sa
<JonReagan> k
<JonReagan> thanks!
<persia> james_w, Thank you very much for pandering to my habit of rambling on IRC and turning that into something tangible for me to edit.
<JonReagan> when I upload this to REVU, this won't screw up and add a new entry, as if it's a totally different program will it?
<persia> If it does, the new one is correct.  Ask someone to nuke the old one.
<JonReagan> ah, k.  Thanks! :)
 * persia suspects it won't
<Hobbsee> persia: you don't have to change the package base directory name, do you?
<Hobbsee> dpkg-source gets it right whenever you unpack
<JonReagan> ah, downloaded... unpacked. and now renamed.
<Hobbsee> (no harm in doing so, though)
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: \o/
<JonReagan> I have one copy of the source from upstream on my desktop, and one (the one I renamed in the directory below my working one)
<persia> Hobbsee, For the contents of orig.tar.gz, I agree.  Can dpkg-source handle broken diff.gz as well?
<JonReagan> which one should I extract from?
 * persia wouldn't be surprised if it could, but that's a different thing
<JonReagan> the one which has been renamed, or the original?
<Hobbsee> persia: the diff.gz doesn't get it's name from the directory.
<persia> Hobbsee, Oh, in that case, yeah.  Pointless, but not harmful.
<persia> JonReagan, doesn't matter, if they are the same.
<JonReagan> ah, k. thanks
<Hobbsee> persia: (which is why stuff like a full bzr package of ubuntu-meta, etc, works - even though it exports as debian/<source tree>)
<JonReagan> ah, good!  I still have the orig.tar.gz
<persia> Hobbsee, Hrm.  I guess my habits of avoiding VCS and doing everything with piles of patches anyway are showing then.
<JonReagan> but I still have to work out the version number issue, and apparently I have not set up my gpg key right... no secret key :P
<Hobbsee> persia: *g*.  I only do it with a couple of packages
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: ...no secret key?
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: and what's wrong with the version number now?
<JonReagan> well, lintian, over in revu, reports the error that the version number has a dash, and is not supposed to
<JonReagan> the version is openproj (1.4-0ubuntu1)
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: yes, but doesn't that refer to your old package, not the one you're doing now?
<JonReagan> oh, that's a good question... I'll see if I can get my gpg key fixed, or force a sign, and will give it another shot
<JonReagan> wow... that was a lot easier than I thought... I forced a key sign, and it worked! :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<JonReagan> and there it goes to REVU! :)
<JonReagan> with the orig.tar.gz!
<Hobbsee> \o/
<JonReagan> thank you all so much!  It will take a while for this package to upload. so I am going to take a break, eat some dinner, and get back to it later.
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: glad to help :)
<persia> james_w, Have I mangled it too badly?
<james_w> persia: I would think the wiki page would be a pointer to the mailing list?
<james_w> persia: also, I think your "editorial review" is wrapping up my main objection to the proposal with other concerns.
<persia> Ah, good point.  I'll fix that.
<persia> Which is the main objection?
<persia> (and yes, I rewrote to be a convincing argument, which does mean missing some bits)
<james_w> that the current state only exists in the heads of those developers following the news list, rather than being clear from a wiki page
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-21
<james_w> I have no objection to that, and I will happily add my concern as the first bit of feedback if that doesn't convince you to weaken your argument :-)
<persia> Oh.  I don't think that this process solves the problem of not having stuff stored in a useful location.
 * Hobbsee wonders where this wiki page is?
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/News
<persia> james_w, I took Edgy mostly off (well, X wouldn't start for about 3 months).  When I came back, things were a little different.
<james_w> well, I wasn't going that far, just that it makes it harder for just any developer to send the mail to -devel-annouce. The wiki page means that even if those who initially agree to shepherd the process disappear there is nothing lost
<persia> Having a list of news-type postings wouldn't have helped me much.
<Hobbsee> ah, thanks
<persia> lists.ubuntu.com has full archives of all submissions to the news team.
<james_w> persia: hopefully that will be one thing we can discuss at Hobbsee's UDS session, or at least during UDS.
<james_w> persia: any objection to me adding a note that no-one has actually asked the news team yet?
<persia> james_w, That works for me.
<persia> No.
<Hobbsee> james_w: indeed.
<persia> james_w, So you're thinking intro in the next MOTU meeting, chatting at UDS, and decision in the following MOTU meeting?
<ogra> Hobbsee's UDS session ? we're discussing Hobbsee ?
<ogra> where can i subscribe ?
<Hobbsee> ogra: yes, clearly we're discussing how much I suck.  i'm sure certain flamers will be delighted to attend...
<james_w> persia: well, that feels heavyweight for me. I don't feel we need a MOTU decision about this.
<ogra> oh, i thought we can dress you up in funny ways ... :) "wear these shoes with that hat i just found online"
<Hobbsee> ogra: oh dear...
<james_w> persia: If you wish to ask for one that is fine
<persia> james_w, That wiki page says "Will be introduced at the 28th November MOTU Meeting".  I didn't add that part.
<Hobbsee> ogra: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/retaining-ubuntu-developers
<persia> Personally, I think it's nice to discuss things at MOTU Meetings.
<james_w> my proposal to the lists was going to be that if there was no clear consensus on  on the wiki page soon then I would just ask for volunteers to go the news-team route
<ogra> Hobbsee, subscribed
<Hobbsee> ogra: oh dear ;)
<ogra> :)
<james_w> the MOTU meeting just gave a nice milestone at which to make that call.
 * Hobbsee is apparently going to get the entire development team subscribed to this.
<Hobbsee> perhaps i'm just going to get lynchmobbed at the end?
<james_w> we can add it to the agenda if it is desired
<TheMuso> persia: Since you will be offline for a while, what is your position re your merges? Do you want them taken care of?
<persia> james_w, OK, although we've had a lot of fairly dead-end ML discussions recently.  I'd like to get back to the relatively quicker route of using MOTU Meetings to quick review/approve/proceed with basic stuff
<james_w> persia: yeah, I was trying to avoid a long ML discussion, by having a short non-ML discussion and calling your proposal the winner if we didn't get anywhere
<persia> TheMuso, I should only have lash (which is annoying tarball-in-tarball) and matchbox-window-manager (which stefanlsd already did) outstanding.  freqtweak still shouldn't be merged, unless someone wants pain.  There's a couple useful bits in debian, but no code patches.
<james_w> matchbox is uploaded
<persia> TheMuso, If I get new ones, and someone grabs them, I won't complain (this is a standing policy: excepting freqtweak, I don't really care if people upload stuff I uploaded last, and freqtweak is mostly special because the Debian tarball is so ugly, and it's orphaned, and nobody has made any useful improvements.
<persia> james_w, Ah.  I was waiting to look at the BTS entry, but thank you.
<TheMuso> persia: Ok fair enough.
<persia> And I won't actually cause the pain to anyone merging freqtweak: they just get to try to track down the very different ways Bart and I chose to work with dead upstream, and figure how just how many of my patches Bart finally applied, or whether some bits are missing.
 * persia should really try to adopt it again: it's been long enough that maybe it won't get blocked this time
<james_w> persia: thanks for your help
<JonReagan> yeeehaaaw!  the upload worked, and the lintian issue I had earlier has been resolved!
<JonReagan> now all that's left as far as issues are concerned is my changelog... apparently something is "missing or invalid"
<persia> Did you use dch --create to create your changelog?
<JonReagan> oh, when was I supposed to do that?
<persia> That's the preferred way to construct debian/changelog
<JonReagan> it has a changelog included in debian/
<persia> stefanlsd, bug 506352 looks perfect.  Well described and well tagged.  Thank you very much.
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 506352 could not be found
<persia> JonReagan, Right, but you got a complaint that it's missing or invalid.  I'm guessing there's something funny with that changelog.
<james_w> Hobbsee: still around?
<Hobbsee> james_w: yes
<james_w> Hobbsee: on to point 2 in your brainstorm.txt :-)
<JonReagan> ah, k, thanks... I remember seeing a page for the changelog on the wiki.  I'll give that a look
<Hobbsee> JonReagan: hurrah!
<Hobbsee> james_w: woot :)
<james_w> Hobbsee: "- Wiki documentation!" <- what do you mean by that?
<Hobbsee> james_w: kinda the news stuff that was being discussed earlier, and a bit that I mentioned yesterday about the triaging with jono
<Hobbsee> james_w: we need a good way of saying 'Here's the latest information you need to know, in digest form'
<james_w> by digest do you mean like a diff from when you last knew everything?
<Hobbsee> james_w: most of hte discussions happen after long threads on the mailing list, and don't get put somewhere where someone can take 10 minutes to read and think on what's been decided, and remember it
<Hobbsee> james_w: maybe it should be something like "major decisions / changes made in <release>"
<Hobbsee> and just keep updating the wiki page
<james_w> hmm, I'm having trouble seeing how that is different from the news stuff
<Hobbsee> we don't actually have that many, iirc - but stuff like the maintainer field change, which has changed again.
<Hobbsee> i don't think it is, as such, except that I thought you were sending out the news in chunks, whereas what I was thinking was one page that routinely gets updated after every major decision.  I think one would be taken from the other and sent out :)
<james_w> for that one you just get it pointed out the first time you get it wrong :-)
<Hobbsee> (i think they're both needed)
<Hobbsee> well...
 * Hobbsee wonders if you can rss-ize wiki pages.
<james_w> that was my proposal for how the news would work
<Hobbsee> right, yes
<james_w> you can subscribe by mail on moin
<Hobbsee> it was a rather unedited brain-dump.
<james_w> . o 0 (email2rss?)
<persia> james_w, The issue is that the news thing serves a slightly different purpose.
<Hobbsee> but i do think it's important to have a listing where one does *not* have to chain thru bits of mailing list archives to read them, too
<persia> james_w, The "Today's best practices" document is more useful, especially if it's fed to everyone every cycle, and required to be updated for major decisions.
<Hobbsee> content-wise, one would definetly be a subset of the other - in fact, the wiki'd version would probably be an amalgamation of all the posts that had been sent out
<james_w> persia: perhaps we have a different idea of what the news thing would be then
<persia> It's not so much news, as a quick explanation of current practices and pointers to current Docs.
<persia> We maintained one up to Breezy or so, but then lost track.
<james_w> persia: ah, I haven't seen that, does it still exist?
<Hobbsee> that's a point. i'd not realised that was persia's definition either :)
<james_w> I'm having trouble seeing how it is different to the wiki though
<persia> What?
<Hobbsee> james_w: in my proposal?
<persia> I think the news thing is interesting from a news perspective.  I'd like to see news.
<persia> I just don't think news solves the issue of maintaining a useful wiki page of knowledge or practices.
<james_w> erm, sorry, typing too quickly
<james_w> does the Breezy "best practices" document still exist somewhere, I would be interested in reading it.
<persia> My disagreement about new implementation is fairly minor, and only about the implementation.
<persia> I'm looking for it.
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> my other point was that the "current" state stuff is just the wiki documentation isn't it?
<Hobbsee> current state stuff?
<persia> Well, yes, but it would be nice to have a summary bullet page.
<Hobbsee> james_w: btw, if you're taking notes of this discussion, along with annotations, i'd apprecaite them sent to me, etc.
<james_w> while there may be valid concerns about it being incomplete or hard to navigate that would be different to being something that would be missing
<Hobbsee> james_w: i'm not sure I'll be able to run such a high profile session completely on my own :P
<persia> Mind you, the wiki in general needs help, and many of the recent semi-incomplete revamps haven't helped (and I share responsibility for at least two of them)
<james_w> I'm trying to grasp if there is something missing, or it is just insufficient effort in maintaining the wiki.
<persia> james_w, The part that's oft considered "missing" is the "Well, I've been away for a while: how do I get started again" page.
<james_w> and I'm also having trouble envisioning what would be on the "summary bullet page" as opposed to a general wiki documentation index.
<Hobbsee> persia++
<james_w> persia: in what ways does a list of the decisions taken and new tools, processes, and best practices not provide that?
<james_w> (damn, just noticed a thinko in my mail)
<persia> james_w, It's a TLDR thing.
<persia> james_w, You're entirely correct, but the trick is to make it look trivially easy, rather than wading through history.
<Hobbsee> persia: TLDR?
<persia> I'm also very much not convinced that some things would make that news, as they happen gradually enough nobody notices unless they've been away for a while.
<persia> Hobbsee, Too-Long-Didn't-Read.
<Hobbsee> persia: oh :)
 * persia almost never suffers from that problem, but knows that many do, and avoiding it is key to making something that looks useful
<james_w> hmm, a way for someone to catch up on all changes in a certain time frame without at least looking over a list of the changes within that timeframe? neat.
<persia> james_w, Right.  It's a bit of a snark
<persia> james_w, The two easy solutions are 1) don't change anything (people change, not gonna happen)
<directhex> i think it's meant to be written "tl;dr"
<james_w> some things not making it is a valid concern though. I'm not sure any process will easily capture things happening too slowly to notice.
<persia> 2) Create a semi-accurate short summary document "Jaunty Development is different than Intrepid Development in these four ways".
<persia> That's clearly incomplete, but satisfies the desire for understanding.
<persia> james_w, And no, it's not a substitute for the wiki being dredged properly.
<james_w> persia: I agree with your two points. That is one role that I see the news things filling.
<persia> And to me, it's completely separate from news.  I'd like to hear more about what people are planning and doing, but that's not process and the like.
<james_w> Intrepid was released on this date, here is a list of things that happened since that date, each a title and one paragraph with links for more information seems like a good way to organise it
<Hobbsee> james_w: i don't *actually* think there's that many decisions that get taken, in a cycle, on a technical note, for things that are required for later releases.  dh_icons, major X dependancy changes, mono changes, maintainer field changes, that kind of thing was what I was imagining.  Were you thinking of other type of things apart from that?
<persia> See, I want news to have things like "We've decided to move to X 1.6, with the following implications"  "The new armel port is underway, has these outstanding issues, but is otherwise in fairly good shape"  "OpenJDK will now be the default Java for Ubuntu, so everything should be aligned to work with that".
<directhex> persia, i'm planning and doing things. perhaps you've hard of them? :p
<persia> directhex, Yes.  you sent mail.  Thank you.
<james_w> Hobbsee: in my head it would be a superset of those things, including the things that persia lists.
<persia> james_w, None of these are interesting to someone who has been away for 6 months, as they're mostly done, or not actively important.  What is interesting is "There's a new team called UUC" or "We can do normal uploads or bzr pushes now" or "Soyuz *finally* supports orig.tar.bz2, so don't bother re-wrapping the source".
<james_w> skimming the titles would hopefully allow you to quickly see "dh_iconcache is deprecated, use dh_icons" and read that, but skip over "OpenJDK will now be the default Java for Ubuntu" if you don't work on Java packages.
<persia> It's not whether one works on Java packages.
<persia> It's that it's not even interesting to someone who does work on Java packages who's been away for a while.
<persia> it's obvious from looking at the state of the stack.
<Hobbsee> james_w: right, yes.
<james_w> and with the list of everything it would be easier for interested parties to compile the list of things that affect the workflow
<persia> armel is news today.  In 6 months, it won't have mattered.
<persia> Oh, sure.  The news can be a source of input to a "What changed" wiki page, and an important one.  I just think they are different.
<james_w> persia: if it is obvious, how hard is it to skip it?
<persia> james_w, You're missing my point.
<persia> The problem is not that the information doesn't exist.
<persia> It's easy to collect by skimming the ubuntu-devel@ archives, reading the ubuntu-devel-announce@ archives, and going through the MOTU Meeting minutes.
<persia> Sometimes it's worth going through the CC and TB minutes also, but those usually have slightly less effect to most developers (with a few key exceptions).
<persia> The problem is that people don't want to read that.
<james_w> ok, I would say that the list of news items would provide an acceptable granularity to me.
<persia> james_w, I understand that.
<james_w> given the opposite, but lesser, concern that too much filtering will lead to things of interest to someone being left out.
<persia> Most of the old devs who swing by need to be caught fast.  Anything that doesn't fit in a quick span of vague attention will get skipped ("Bah, too much changed"), unless there's some external motivation to engage again.
<persia> There have been a few who went away and came back.
<james_w> and I'm satisfied if work on the news project can make it easier to achieve what you want.
<persia> There have been many who went away, came back for a day or two, said hi, asked a coupe questions, and left saying it was confusing.
<persia> I don't think the news archive would serve them, and there's few others who would clearly benefit.
<persia> james_w, Um.  Firstly, I don't really care if this exists.  I'd rather have a "current best practices" document than "changes since when", and to push it to everyone every few months.
<persia> james_w, Also, I think there's *huge* value in news regardless of this other thing.
<persia> My only objection is that I don't think news in-and-of-itself addresses the request.
<james_w> ok, I can accept that
<james_w> would your "best practices" thing be like the dev-ref, but more useful?
<persia> james_w, Shorter, more based on variation from current Debian practice, and more useful.
<james_w> ok
<persia> Whlie there's lots of people who don't come from Debian, it remains a great source of documentation, and I think listing things like "Everything is maintained by teams, and the current maintainer string should be taken as guidance rather than restriction" is more useful than "Ubuntu is collaborative, and works on the basis of collected and contributed patches by interested parties".
<persia> Writing that takes a bunch or work by someone (and I'd still like to find the old one), but it's punchy, and if we make it a practice to put all significant choices and decisions there, it becomes a useful reference, even if much of it ends up being pointers to more verbose explanations.
 * james_w nods
<james_w> Hobbsee: another one for you :-)
<persia> Anyway, I'm not especially promoting that right now, as I don't have the idea for it strongly enough to start drafting something.
<james_w> Hobbsee: "- Decrease sponsorship times, for various teams"
<james_w> persia: yeah, it sounds like something I would like to see, but I don't want to walk down that path just now.
<Hobbsee> james_w: hmm?
<james_w> Hobbsee: sorry, I mean I'm not sure what you mean by that.
<persia> reducing time from subscription to upload
<Hobbsee> james_w: the sponsorship queues can get very long
<james_w> I thought you might mean people feel like they have to spend too much time sponsoring
<Hobbsee> oh
<persia> Frustratingly, when the sponsoring queue is in the 30-40 range, there are lots of sponsors.  When it gets above 50, it seems all sponsoring mostly stops for a while.
<Hobbsee> hadn't thought of it that way
<james_w> or perhaps that applications took too long to process
<persia> Probably just needs work on how we organise sponsoring.
<james_w> just delete items if it threatens to hit 50?
<persia> No.
<james_w> damn
<persia> I've gone through it about 10 times and pushed out non-debdiffs to get down to the magic number, but people kept yelling at me for that, so I stopped.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> i liked that solution too :P
<Hobbsee> and shoving debian stuff out of the queue, after it was already in ubuntu
<persia> The idea was to add a tag to them, and have interested contributors use that tag to make debdiffs, which seemed to work, but generated a lot of bugmail, and annoyed some patch authors who didn't know how to make debdifs, and didn't espectially want to learn.
 * james_w notes that the universe queue is at 49
<persia> james_w, Thank you for that.
<james_w> without pruning stuff that shouldn't really be on there
 * persia isn't sure if this is good or bad.
<persia> Either we're not getting that many submissions, or there's been an immense amount of work done.
<james_w> it's dropped by almost 100 in the last week
<persia> What's your guess on merges vs. bugfixes by count?
<serialorder> i have a question I was hoping to get some help with, i am fairly new to all this
<james_w> 90% merges/syncs of the newer items
<persia> serialorder, What's the question.
<james_w> (i.e. anything added since Intrepid)
<serialorder> i am attempting to apply to create patch  a simple bug fix and repackage
<persia> james_w, Right.  That means we're not getting enough submissions.
<persia> serialorder, Excellent.  That's why we're here.
<persia> Have you determined which patch fixes the bug?
<serialorder> that part went fine but just out of curiosity I ran licensecheck -r --copyright . and noticed there are several copyright holders listed in the output that are not in debain/copyright
<persia> serialorder, Which package?
<serialorder> uml-utilities
<persia> serialorder, That's probably not worth fixing directly, but it is worth filing a bug about it.  Extra points for filing the bug in the Debian BTS.
<james_w> persia: 250 sponsored uploads this week, which is around average I think
<serialorder> ok so i will file a bug about it
<james_w> I think that number is right
<persia> james_w, Roughly, yeah.
<serialorder> are you saying I should file in both or only Debain BTS
<persia> serialorder, I like both linked, but lots of people would say only the Debian BTS.
<serialorder> ok, thanks for the help persia
<persia> It's not something we fix in Ubuntu for packages in Debian, except in very special cases (e.g. where one of the missing authors complains).
<persia> So the only reason for the Ubuntu bug is to track the Debian bug, and maybe provide an announcement in case anyone wants to complain.
<serialorder> oh ok, that is good to know
<serialorder> this can all be a bit daunting at first
<persia> serialorder, The basic rule is: if it's a package only in Ubuntu, we fix everything we can for every upload.
<persia> If it's a pacakge also in Debian, we mostly concentrate on bugfixes, or adjustments to make it work better in Ubuntu.  We send all the bugfixes also to Debian and upstream so everyone benefits.
<persia> The exceptions are usually for release freezes of one sort or another, where certain types of uploads become restricted.
<serialorder> if the fix closes a bug I am supposed to include something like (closes: #<bug number>) in the change log correct?
<persia> LP: #nnnnnnn
<persia> closes: is used to close Debian bugs.
<serialorder> thanks , i thought it did'nt look right
<persia> james_w, My apologies, but I'm not finding it.  I've looked through about 1000 wiki page titles, and maybe 75 pages, but I think it's gone.
<james_w> persia: no problem, thanks for looking :-)
<persia> I remember it mentioning the GCC ABI change, and the X libraries transition, and stuff like that.
<james_w> persia: if you ever stumble across it I would like to see it
<persia> Sure.
<persia> Problem is that it takes about a month (straight) to read the wiki, so it's easy to lose stuff.
<persia> I've still not actually finished processing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/WikiCleanUp/SomeReviewNotes
<persia> That it exists still, the date it was last edited, and the number of referenced pages that still exist are a good indication of just how much cruft is there.
<james_w> Is there somewhere I can read up on what clean-la.mk is trying to fix?
<james_w> does it just make .la files less useful, but make dependency management easier?
<RAOF> Aargh.  Must not reply to mono troll on ubuntu-motu@
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yes, you musn't.  I already got a lovely reply to *my* mail to him today.
<RAOF> (Hopefully by putting that determination in the public sphere, I'll be able to actually resist)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yes.  Try very hard not to feed the trolls.  Go find beer instead ;)
<RAOF> Hm.  I suppose the sun /is/ over the yardarm...
<persia> james_w, My (vague) understanding is that it's trying to avoid .la files, and discourage both use and the possibility they might be used at build time to make dependency chains more sensible.  Unfortunately, I don't know of any good doc about it.
<james_w> persia: ok, thanks.
<james_w> I'm looking at a sponsorship request, and whether to forward the change to Debian
<persia> Which one?
<james_w> the changelog entry when it was introduced was about "fixing" the .la file, which makes it sound like something that should be, but I'm pretty convinced it's not something to forward
<james_w> though it seems a little odd to do it on a per-package basis
<james_w> bug 299350
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299350 in libnxml "Please merge libnxml 0.18.3-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299350
<persia> james_w, I'll agree it's odd to do on a per-package basis.  On the other hand, I can see iulian's arguments, and think that including that is useful.
<persia> .la based dependency chains get *very* annoying.
<james_w> I guess if it involves packaging modifications not appropriate for Debian to cope with the stripped .las anyway then we wouldn't gain anything by doing it for all packages
<persia> The per-package basis might be to preserve those cases where we *need* .la files, or it might be part of an attempt at a gentle introduction to Debian.
<persia> I think current Debian practices to reduce dependencies are moving in different directions (from what small bits I see), but until there's a reduction in the Debian pacakge itself, it probably has some value.
<persia> I wouldn't forward this patch to Debian, personally, it's far too awkward, relies on Ubuntu infrastruture, etc.
<james_w> yeah, I just wondered if the "fix" was a "fix", and so we should send a bug report.
<persia> Well, yes and no.
<persia> It's a "fix", but it's not clear if the problem being fixed either exists or is important in Debian.
<persia> pitti or slangasek would be the experts on this.  My main argument against sending it back is that I can't find a bug for clean-la.mk on CDBS.
<persia> I'd presume that if that were applicable to Debian, it would be there.
<slangasek> pff, name droppers.  Can someone give me some summary context?
<slangasek> james_w: so what clean-la.mk does is munge the .la files in the installed package so that there are no dependencies.  It has been debated whether this is a correct thing to do, but the strongest opponent to it is Keybuk, who won't stand in the way of pushing it to Debian if that's the question
<james_w> slangasek: the question boiled down to whether using clean-la.mk indicated that there was a bug in the package that should be reported to Debian
<slangasek> are you asking whether a patch should be forwarded up to Debian to /use/ clean-la.mk, or are you asking whether the use of clean-la.mk implies bugginess in the package?
<persia> The latter
<slangasek> then no
<james_w> thanks slangasek
<JonReagan> is a debian/watch file necessary for a package?
<persia> JonReagan, It's very strongly recommended for packages that are not also in Debian, so we can more easily track when a new upstream is available.
<JonReagan> ah... k, thanks.
<persia> If a debian/watch file cannot be constructed, please construct a get-orig-source rule.
<james_w> bug 299353 is an interesting one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299353 in libkipi "Please merge libkipi 0.1.6-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299353
<persia> Many reviewers will not advocate a package without one of the two.
<JonReagan> persia: thanks
 * persia seems to remember being disturbed by libkipi previously
<james_w> the -common package is gone, so the libpackage should ship its own icons, but that would seemingly make libkipi0 and libkipi5 not co-installable.
<james_w> and a quick glance suggests to me that removing libkipi0 is tied up with the KDE4 transition, so I'm not chasing that rabbit
<serialorder> ok persia I have another question
<persia> I'd be suspicious of that.  Last merge by that merger I reviewed was a thoughtless copy&paste.
<persia> serialorder, Just ask generally.  I could have fallen asleep by now :)
<serialorder> well i saw you typing away
<serialorder> but point taken
<james_w> persia: suspicious of what?
<persia> james_w, Suspicious of the merge because 1) it's adding a dependency to a package that doesn't exist, and 2) I had a poor experience with the last merge from the same person.
<persia> (that was last week or earlier this week or something)
<Hobbsee> oh, that's always a good one.
 * Hobbsee encountered that a while ago, but then discovered an out of date cache.
<james_w> persia: yeah, I'm talking about what should happen, the proposed debdiff is certainly wrong
<serialorder> the package I have been working on, uml-utilities was never synced in hardy or intrepid, last version that has an ubuntu specific build is in gutsy
<serialorder> when I post the fix to this bug should I also create a sync request bug as well?
<persia> james_w, Well, there are two options.  #1) unsub the sponsors and leave a comment saying what should be done, or #2 (my favorite) do it yourself, ignore the debdiff, and close the bug.
<persia> I often attach the correct debdiff to a bug so that the merger can examine the difference, and include a paragraph about why it was completely wrong.
<james_w> persia: I'm trying to do number two
<persia> This is just a clear case of trusting MoM.
<persia> I'd be tempted to sync, if that's the outstanding change
<Hobbsee> james_w: libkipi-common is gone?
 * persia looks harder at the debdiff
<persia> No, it's there.  I read rmadison wrong.
<persia> james_w, Ignore most of what I've said.
<james_w> Hobbsee: I looked at the last upload of the source package
<james_w> ...that used to provide it
 * persia goes back to the list of things that are annoying, but must be done, rather than making more mistakes here.
<james_w> has it moved?
<persia> libkipi-common | 4:4.1.2-0ubuntu3 |        jaunty | amd64, i386
<Hobbsee> persia: er, that'd be old
<Hobbsee> kdegraphics | 4:4.1.3-1ubuntu1 |        jaunty | source
<Hobbsee> james_w: would be right, there, and it needs to be NBSd out
 * persia tries harder to avoid making mistakes by stopping typing
<james_w> Hobbsee: I'm trying :-)
<james_w> it would have been uploaded by now if the solution was obvious
<Hobbsee> heh
<james_w> libkipi0 Depends: libkipi5?
<Hobbsee> where?
<james_w> no, that's my suggestion
<Hobbsee> oh
<james_w> libkipi0 would then have the icons it needs installed
<james_w> they would still be co-installable
<james_w> and builds would still work as the -dev symlink wouldn't change
<james_w> it does make me want to take a shower though
<Hobbsee> er, is making the kde3 version depend on the kde4 version a really wise move?
<james_w> oh, there's a kdegraphics-kde4
<Hobbsee> you can ask that in #kubuntu-devel, anyway
<james_w> ah, not any more
<Hobbsee> james_w: there was, anyway.  it's been phased out, afaik.
<Hobbsee> when we had the emss of 2 kdes.
<james_w> if the packages aren't co-installable then it would make it impossible to install some kde3 apps on jaunty
<serialorder> im going to try asking this one more time
<serialorder> the package I have been working on, uml-utilities, the upstream version  was never synced in hardy or intrepid, last version that has an ubuntu specific build is in gutsy
<serialorder> when I post the fix to this bug should I also create a sync request bug as well?
<james_w> oh, sorry serialorder, missed your question
<james_w> serialorder: I don't see a new version in Debian we can sync
<serialorder> http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/uml-utilities
<james_w> but you mean update to the new upstream version
<serialorder> that is where i am looking
<serialorder> maybe that is the wrong place?
<serialorder> or im using the wrong words
<james_w> "sync" has a specific meaning in Ubuntu, usually to pull in a version of a package from Debian
<james_w> in this case we have the same version as Debian, so there is nothing to sync
<james_w> if there is a new upstream then it would be possible to update to that though
<serialorder> ok maybe i am confused then
<serialorder> is there a reason the versions in hardy and intrepid dunot have an ubuntu ending?
<Yasumoto> james_w: Wow, I probably should've thought about that. Thanks for cleaning up the formatting :)
<Yasumoto> (re: ubuntu dev news)
<james_w> Yasumoto: no problem
<james_w> Yasumoto: apologies if I munged your meaning at all
<Yasumoto> not at all, thanks
<serialorder> james_w: I think im confused then, is there a reason the versions in hardy and intrepid do not have an ubuntu# ending?
<Hobbsee> james_w: they're coinstallable, no question, it's just whether one should be able to remove the kde4 version if desired that is the question
 * Hobbsee apparently can't type today
<james_w> serialorder: that means that the package is unmodified from Debian
<serialorder> are those only introduced when there is a bug fix introduced in ubuntu but not upstream
<serialorder> ahhh ok
<james_w> Hobbsee: yes, but a sync would mean they were no longer co-installable.
<james_w> Hobbsee: and given that ubuntu is now kde4 I'm not sure why you would want to remove a kde4 lib from your system
<Hobbsee> james_w: point taken.
<Hobbsee> james_w: unless you ran it on gnome, and didn't want more kde deps than you absolutely had to have.
<james_w> I agree it's not nice, but neither is a lib shipping images
<Hobbsee> it being stuff like digikam : that's a real scenario
<Hobbsee> debian should be able to be reasoned with, though.
<serialorder> james_w: last question, so if i applied a patch and rebuilt to resolve the bug then in launchpad all I need to do is attach the debdiff and subscribe sponsors right?
<james_w> but if Riddell dropped -common then he may have a plan
<Hobbsee> they're pretty good, there, and the kde guys have connections
<Yasumoto> RAOF: thanks for being so patient/helping me merge :)
<james_w> serialorder: correct
<serialorder> sweet thanks!
<RAOF> Yasumoto: No problem.  You noticed that I added another missed remaining change to the changelog, I guess?
<james_w> Hobbsee: I'll talk to someone in the morning. Thanks for your advice
<Hobbsee> james_w: you're welcome.
<Yasumoto> RAOF: yeah, thanks for catching that
<jmarsden> Where can I find out how to package something, where the original source package format is a .zip ?
<jmarsden> Not a .tar.gz or tar.bz2 as is "normal"
<Hobbsee> jmarsden: unzip, tar & gz it?
<Hobbsee> afaik, there's no actual 'difference' than it would be with a normal package
<jmarsden> I can,. but I think there is supposed to be a way to do it... http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-first.en.html says you can but it "takes more knowledge..." ?
<james_w> hmm, libkipi5 doesn't Conflict/Replace libkipi-common
<james_w> isn't that required for moving files between packages?
<james_w> the changelog says "(add conflicts/replaces)" but it doesn't add those ones at least
 * Hobbsee notes the possibility of a bad merge
<Hobbsee> but, you'd think so?
<Hobbsee> jmarsden: i presume that means for things like sources in git / bzr / etc
<Hobbsee> where you're doing a checkout
<Hobbsee> i can't imagine zip files should be on that list
 * james_w stops looking and will wait to ask someone more knowledgeable
<jmarsden> OK.  I just thought that by unzip and tar I'm making an undocumented and un-automated change to the original sources "tarball", in a way... if it's Ok to just do that, then I'll just do that :-)
<jmarsden> The guide says things are compicated if ... "the source file format being neither in tar.gz. nor tar.bz2" ...
<Hobbsee> jmarsden: that's true.
<Hobbsee> jmarsden: I *suspect* it's just an oversight of the guide.
<jmarsden> OK, thanks.
<Hobbsee> jmarsden: but yes, document that you did unzip and tar it, so people will be able to figure out why they can't find an upstream tarball ;P
<jmarsden> OK :)
<Hobbsee> certainly fro stuff like bzr & git, you want to ignore certain directories, etc.
<Hobbsee> which would require more knowledge
<RAOF> jmarsden: It doesn't _have_ to be an undocumented, unautomated change to the original sources; you can easily automate this in a get-orig-source rule in your debian/rules file.
<jmarsden> RAOF: OK... sounds like what I was thinking of... any quick pointers to examples of that or a tutorial or something?
<RAOF> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball
<jmarsden> Thanks!
<bain> Can some motu take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=teamgit
<bain> it has already received some prilim review
<x1250> hey guys, could someone please tell me why this happens at line 70? http://paste.ubuntu.com/75079/
<x1250> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy:
<RAOF> x1250: I'd guess the problem is that you don't have universe enabled in your pbuilder chroot.
<x1250> RAOF, right. Thanks.
<jsmidt> I have been looking at harvest and found a package called moodbar has a patch from fedora for it.
<jsmidt> How do I figure out what the patch does?
<jsmidt> The patch is found on the fedora website.
<jsmidt> Here: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/moodbar/moodbar-0.1.2-glib.patch?view=markup
<jsmidt> I would like to learn to patch packages but am sure in the changelog you want to state why the package is being patched.
<jsmidt> Or do I just say something like: "patched with fedora patch"?
<RAOF> You'd _definitely_ need to know what the patch does before doing anything else.
<RAOF> As for how to work this out... it depends.  If they've been nice and documented it, the patch should have something telling you what it actually does, or a reference to a bug to follow up, or somesuch.
<RAOF> If it _doesn't_, then you need to use initiative; see if you can read what the patch does.  See if you can find the first time the patch appeared in the Fedora package; what bugs did that release fix?  Etc.
<jsmidt> RAOF, thanks.  This is what I needed to know.  I was just wondering if fedora had an official way of documenting their patches and thought if so you guys would know about it.
<RAOF> jsmidt: Now that I've actually _looked_ at the patch, it's obvious what it's doing, and I'd guess we don't need to (or have already) apply it; if we didn't have something like that, moodbar would be quite consistently crashing.
<jsmidt> RAOF, okay, thanks.
<RAOF> jsmidt: Obviously, if there are a bunch of segfault bugs on launchpad, it's worth investigating :)
<RAOF> Failing that, I'd guess we've already got it.
<jsmidt> RAOF, yeah, I'm new at this.  I'm just trying to track down bugs I know I can fix, especially ones where there is already a patch. :)
<RAOF> Yeah.  That's the important part; you start with the bug, then find (or write) the patch.  Such is the way of things :)
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Good morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<jsmidt> dholbach, I am reading a guide I belive you wrote.  I found a bug and patch and patched the package and created a debdiff.  Now your guide says "You can now attach the debdiff to a bug report or send it to the relevant person. "  Who would that be?
<jsmidt> Should I just make a bug report?
<jsmidt> Or is there someone specific I should track down?
<dholbach> jsmidt: if you want to get a patch uploaded, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<jsmidt> dholbach, thanks.
<dholbach> basically attach the bug to an existing bug report or file a new one with all the information, then subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors (for main/restricted) or ubuntu-universe-sponsors (for *verse)
<dholbach> I'll fix the doc
<dholbach> thanks for the feedback jsmidt
<jsmidt> dholbach, thanks.
<dholbach> rock on jsmidt!
<didrocks> morning o/
<nellery> dholbach: hi, I'm having some trouble with bug 300547
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300547 in modconf "Please merge modconf 0.3.9 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300547
<nellery> attempting to build it with the proper dependency fails
<nellery> do you have any ideas?
<dholbach> nellery: let me see
<nellery> dholbach: I've just attached the debdiff's which failed to the bug report
<Yasumoto> does MoM get updated frequently?
<dholbach> nellery: did you try just taking the debian version and changing the build-dep to linux-source-2.6.27?
<dholbach> nellery: that built fine for me
<nellery> dholbach: there we go, I got it
<nellery> is that the only change necessary?
<dholbach> nellery: I don't know
<dholbach> I have no idea how modconf works and what else might be necessary to make it work
<dholbach> which changes were necessary between 0.3.7 and 0.3.7ubuntu1?
<nellery> dholbach: it looks like it was just the build-dep change
<dholbach> does the newly built version work in jaunty?
<nellery> dholbach: it builds fine in jaunty
<dholbach> nellery: does it work too?
<dholbach> sorry, got kicked out
<dholbach> nellery: does it work too?
<nellery> dholbach: sorry, I had to run away for a sec
<nellery> I'm very sorry, but I have to leave
<dholbach> nellery: no worries, I need to leave too
<dholbach> just follow up on the bug repotr
<dholbach> and thanks for looking into this
<nellery> alright, once I confirm everything works
<nellery> thanks for your help :)
<dholbach> nor worries
<bain> can some motu please take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=teamgit
<bain> it has already received a prilim review
<kiko-afk> hello gentlemen
<kiko> no use pretending
<kiko> anybody feel like merging a patch to unbreak syncropated? fix > 10 dupes in the process? I wrote the patch so it's obviously right <wink>
<kiko> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syncropated/+bug/200357
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 200357 in syncropated "syncropated crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dholbach> kiko: I'll take a look at it... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess (ubuntu-universe-sponsors is the 'magic word') :-)
<kiko> magic
 * kiko <- fan of dholbach 
<dholbach> kiko: I'd love if we could just "take at the list of ubuntu bugs with patches attached", but there's so much stuff tagged as patch that does not apply or is no patch at all, so that's why we have this process as a filter
<Hobbsee> oh, kiko's here.
<dholbach> in a new world, merge proposals might work for it
<Hobbsee> hey :)
<eMerzh> if someone is in a reviewing mood....my package is waiting for comments : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman
<kiko> dholbach, isn't the right solution there to go over stuff marked as patch and unmark it, or delete it?
<dholbach> kiko: right, but it's ~1200 bugs or something
<dholbach> kiko: I think we can slowly get there, but only slowly
<persia> kiko, Very much unmark.  Most of the "patches" are useful as attachments, just not as patches.
<kiko> dholbach, I can do like 50 a day and then you just need to watch the queue
<dholbach> kiko: another problem is bug status often != patch status, so it's hard to keep track of when a review is required without guessing
<dholbach> kiko: if you can just unsubscribe a team, that's easy
<persia> kiko, That'd be great.  We're currently only getting about 40 a day sponsored, but with real commitment to feed the rest in (tested, of course), We could probably get some more.
<dholbach> but anyway... I agre with you that the list of bugs with patches should be a lot lot lot shorter
<dholbach> and people get good feedback
<kiko> dholbach, give me a link and let me see if I can go through it
<persia> kiko, There's a bug against Malone about awkward machinations for sponsoring.  Is that maybe something that could be scheduled for a meeting sometime to look at a possible cleaner way to do things?
<kiko> persia, give me the bug number and I'll put it on next week's agenda
<persia> kiko, There's one on the front page of qa.ubuntuwire.com (list of bugs with patch attachments)
 * persia will be a few minutes digging up the bug number
<dholbach> kiko: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<dholbach> I think james_w had an idea about automatically testing the attachments and test-applying them
<dholbach> but I'm not sure I'm correct
<kiko> that's not a bad idea -- you can at least get freshness
<persia> kiko, bug #179857
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 179857 in malone "Package sponsorships involve awkward bugtracker machinations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179857
<kiko> persia, dholbach: I'll also get https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/35030 fixed because that is fucking annoying
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 35030 in malone "repeated bug in search for bugs with patches" [Medium,Confirmed]
 * dholbach hugs kiko
<dholbach> that's nice about bug lists like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-main-sponsors :-)
<dholbach> not repetition :)
<persia> kiko, Cool.  Thanks for chasing this class of bugs.  It's a big help.
<bain>  can some motu please take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=teamgit
<bain> it has already received a prilim review
<handschuh> I'm afraid to ask, but since it is revu-day, could somebody revu a small package of mine (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uiflite) ?
<persia> handschuh, Don't be afraid to ask.  It's REVU day.  It's the best possible time to ask.
<persia> I'll take a quick look once I finish the current spec, unless someone else grabs it first.
<handschuh> persia: thanks !
<persia> (or even if someone else grabs it if they advocate)
 * handschuh eats some lunch
 * cody-somerville goes to get some breakfast :)
<luisbg_> cody-somerville, bon appetite :)
<persia> handschuh, Although .* is extremely greedy in perl, it can sometimes be useful in that class of watch file (but it's not worth fixing that: when it works, it's good)
<laga> are there various levels of greediness?
<persia> handschuh, Also, using ([_\d]+ and opts=uversionmangle= is another way to do it.
<persia> laga, Yep.  Some regex processors will grab everything possible with that sort of glob.  Others will grab as little as possible.
<laga> persia: then they're not greedy at all :)
<persia> For example, If I'm using /(.*)q.*/ to match lkjhlkjheqlkjhkljheqlkjh, some implementations return lkjhlkjhe and others return lkjhlkjheqlkjhkljhe
<persia> Hrm.  I can see that.  Dunno if there's more than greedy and not greedy, but I've only played with 6 or 7 regex implementations.
<handschuh> persia: ok i am going to change this
<persia> handschuh, Really, it's not worth changing.
<persia> handschuh, When you get a watch file that works, keep it.
<persia> These are just a couple other options that might be interesting if you run into similar issues in the future, or for you to play around with to become more familiar with watch files in general.
<handschuh> persia: *notices*
<persia> hrm?
 * persia is mostly confused by the notation
<handschuh> persia: (your different way of getting the version)
 * handschuh notices
<persia> Ah.  Got it.  Sorry for the confusion.
<persia> Note that it's perl, so TMTOWTDI is a basic axiom :)
<handschuh> persia: i don't  chat a lot so it is very likely that I make strange notations
<persia> Well, I'm glad to see you about.  I've seen your blog a bunch, but think more interactive channel discussion is a good way to learn.
<persia> handschuh, Also, you might find reading about the $(patsubst ...) function in make interesting.  It can save you calling out to external processes for some things.
<persia> (or: I would have written "UIFLITE_ORIGVERSION=$(shell echo $(UIFLITE_VERSION) | sed "s/\./_/g")" differently, but it doesn't really matter)
<handschuh> persia: calling out ot external processes?
<handschuh> persia: a, ok
<persia> Right.  In the variable definition above, you're launching three extra processes.
<persia> Again, not worth fixing: just me pointing out features in make (as I was perl and watch file options earlier)
<handschuh> persia: I really do appreciate it because I am a "java-only" guy that does not know much about anything else
<persia> I will be rejecting your license though.  It's only save to use /usr/share/common-licenses/BSD when it's "Copyright (c) The Regents of the University of California."
<handschuh> ok so i just include the original (upstream) 3-clause bsd
<persia> Yep, because it's not actually BSD, it's BSD-like.
<persia> This is why I recommend the "ISC" or "MIT" licenses for such code.  Nearly identical permissions, but less confusing.
<persia> Of course, it's not worth asking upstream to relicense.
<persia> That's it though.  I can't find much wrong with this one.
<persia> So fix debian/copyright, and I'll advocate.
<handschuh> persia: great, thanks
<handschuh> persia: so just to be sure: http://paste.ubuntu.com/75197/
<persia> Yep.  That works.
<handschuh> persia: ok, I uploaded the new version
<eMerzh> if someone is in a reviewing mood....my package is waiting for comments : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman :) thanks
 * handschuh is going to review eMerzh's package 
<eMerzh> \me is happy :)
<eMerzh> oups :D
 * eMerzh is happy :)
<handschuh> eMerzh: you still have the empty line in the middle of the watch-file
<eMerzh> erf
<handschuh> eMerzh: this is just a minor issue
<handschuh> eMerzh: no real issue to be specific, but if enything else is wrong with the package, you could upload this, too
<eMerzh> handschuh: ok...
<handschuh> eMerzh: sorry to be so padantic, but debian/changelog: "this patch corrects" (this is not important, but maybe you want to change it)
<handschuh> eMerzh: lets see, if it builds
<handschuh> persia: thanks for advocationg uiflite - now i can repare a new package  :-)
<stefanlsd> ScottK: you around?
<persia> handschuh, Well, you still need another advocate.
 * stefanlsd is gonna make all the guys at the company watch dholbach's motu videos in our tech session
<persia> stefanlsd, You're pushing the corporate "Everyone is an Ubuntu Developer" model?
<handschuh> persia: yes, but if there are changes needed in tha package, i assume they will not be that drastical
<persia> handschuh, Oh, probably not.  Someone might complain more about the stuff I mentioned as alternates, but that's trivial.
<persia> I'd not be surprised if someone wanted Java 6 to be prioritised over Java 5 in the alternates.
<stefanlsd> persia: mm. no. but i think it gives people fundemental understanding around .deb stuff i think they should have.  (and im pushing my own agenda of wanting more MOTU's and devs coming out of south africa) - and hopefully this will get some of them excitied
<handschuh> eMerzh: you package successfully build, but did you run lintian on the binary package?
<persia> stefanlsd, I'm reminded: how much do you know about building mesh networks?
<eMerzh> handschuh: i think i did it, but nothing shows up....you have errors?
<stefanlsd> persia: what kind of mesh?
<handschuh> eMerzh: W: sqliteman: copyright-without-copyright-notice
<persia> stefanlsd, Like devices hopping to other devices ad-hoc.
<stefanlsd> persia: mesh like cloud stuff, or mesh re infrastructure components?
<handschuh> eMerzh: I think I know the reason: debian/changelog: under the section Copyright, there is no "Copyright (C)"
<eMerzh> handschuh: yep...but i should write it for each line?
<persia> stefanlsd, infrastructure stuff.
<stefanlsd> persia: mm. cant say i've ever done anything specific. but do quite alot of routing stuff with load balancer and replicated services
<handschuh> eMerzh: interesting question ... I don't know ... sry (let me try to find a policy)
<eMerzh> handschuh:  because someone  told me that i should'nt repeat it each time
<handschuh> eMerzh: ok then, just write it in the first line of the copyright-section
<eMerzh> handschuh:  i think that it was persia...but not sure of that
<handschuh> eMerzh: (no name attached)
<eMerzh> ok
<handschuh> eMerzh: wait, i will check if it works  :-)
<persia> stefanlsd, Oh well.  Thanks.  I was thinking about advantages of using things like mesh to try to improve connectivity at things like UDS, but I guess I'm misremembering that you might be someone who knows.  Sorry for the confusion.
<persia> What did I say?
<stefanlsd> hehe
<handschuh> eMerzh: for me, it didn't work ... lintian is still complaining
<eMerzh> handschuh: ok...so i repeat it?
<handschuh> eMerzh: wait, I will search for the policy
<eMerzh> i've just found the comment... it said "Copyright: there is no need to add the word "Copyright" before every name" ....
<eMerzh> handschuh: did i misunderstood?
<handschuh> eMerzh: no you did not ... maybe the lintian error is pointing somewere else
<eMerzh> ok
<handschuh> eMerzh: http://lintian.debian.org/tags/copyright-without-copyright-notice.html
<eMerzh> handschuh: ok, so, i just write (c)  ?
<handschuh> eMerzh: (C), yes
<handschuh> eMerzh: well -maybe- lets try  :-)
<eMerzh> handschuh: hÃ©hÃ©..ok
<eMerzh> handschuh: thanks for your help....something else?
<handschuh> eMerzh: did it work?
<handschuh> eMerzh: (for me it did not ... but maybe I am doing something wrong)
<handschuh> eMerzh: something else i did not found
<eMerzh> i've not my compilation env right now....i'll test it in 2h :/
<handschuh> eMerzh: the reason could also be: there is no year after the second name
<eMerzh> handschuh: oh k...i'll try....
<handschuh> eMerzh: i am trying it now
<eMerzh> handschuh:  thanks a lot!
<handschuh> eMerzh: you're welcome
<handschuh> eMerzh: a least, this keeps me away from my master-thesis
<eMerzh> handschuh: hÃ©hÃ© :)
<handschuh> eMerzh: there is still the copyright-without-copyright-notice
<handschuh> eMerzh: this is the copyright-section, I am using: http://paste.ubuntu.com/75214/
<eMerzh> handschuh: maybe it's about other legal issues? but for that i've contact upstream
<handschuh> eMerzh: that may be ... I am sorry but I don't have enough experiance for determining the problem in detail
<eMerzh> handschuh: ok, thanks anyway...i'll investigate ....
<eMerzh> handschuh: exepted this,  anything else look wrong?
<slytherin> handschuh: eMerzh: make sure you both are using same lintian versions and preferably one in intrepid-backports.
<handschuh> slytherin, eMerzh: I am using Version Lintian v2.0.0~intrepid1
<eMerzh> i haven't mine here so i can't tell...but it think that it's the version of intrepid backports
<handschuh> slytherin: but the lintian has to be empty before the package could be accepted, right?
<ScottK> stefanlsd: Here now.
<stefanlsd> ScottK: sorry, just bout to go into a meeting. catch up later. was re spambayes.
<ScottK> OK
<mok0> Re: # 1 on the REVU list, what is supercollider? I can find no packages having to do with that
<james_w> bddebian: hey. I see you uploaded the NMU of fcitx, I just sent a note to the bug stating that I'm not sure the fix is complete. I'm not sure whether to re-open it.
<persia> It's a sound generator.  It got removed a couple releases ago for being unforgivably buggy.
<james_w> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=454363
<ubottu> Debian bug 454363 in fcitx "GTK_IM_MODULE=XIM does not work" [Normal,Closed]
<persia> artfwo has a new version in PPAs, and is around, but due to a bug in REVU, it doesn't show in the list.
<persia> Needs extra testing on amd64.
<james_w> bddebian: I don't even have confirmation of my suspicions at this point though.
<persia> mok0, I keep gettiing about halfway through comments on that one, and my browser crashes, and I get distracted.
<persia> If you have time to hit it, great.
<persia> If not, it's on my list to hit before I leave.
<persia> #2 isn't on my list though.
<JonReagan> do any of y'all know where I can find a good example debian/watch file?
<mok0> persia: I'll take #2
<persia> JonReagan, There's a howto in the wiki, or look at any of the majority of the approved archived packages on REVU.
<JonReagan> thanks!
<mok0> persia: artfwo has a package that's been sitting in "needs work" for a while, so maybe he's not too active
<handschuh> JonReagan: http://wiki.debian.org/debian/watch might help you
<Laibsch> any kind soul around willing to commit the SRU debdiffs I prepared  for bug 221010 and bug 227547 ?
<JonReagan> thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221010 in mailgraph "homepage for mailgraph has moved" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221010
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227547 in wordpress "ubuntu wordpress should suppress the "please update" warning" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227547
<bddebian> james_w: Well if you think it isn't fixed, re-open it :)
<persia> mok0, He's around.  Saw him in #launchpad about 4 days ago.  He just doesn't have a lot of confidence in REVU right now.
<james_w> bddebian: actually, I guess I will open a new bug, as I think the same problem exists for Qt
<persia> mok0, We've a lot of people like that, in part because we sorta skipped REVU for intrepid.
<mok0> persia: can't say I blame him :-)
<persia> mok0, Neither I
<mok0> persia: confidence takes a long time building, only a short time to tear down...
<bddebian> Just never have any confidence and you won't have that problem :)
<handschuh> who is the one in charge of programming revu?
<persia> handschuh, The REVU Hackers share that, but REVU is open source: patches are usually accepted fairly quickly.
<handschuh> persia: as I not arround here for a long time, was there the attempt of creating an auto-build-environment for revu?
<persia> handschuh, It's been discussed.  I've yet to be unsuccessful at shooting it down.
<persia> For a while there was a manual build triggering process that could be performed by reviewers, but that bitrotted.
<mok0> It's good for uploaders to learn how to set up a building environment of their own
<persia> handschuh, In short, the argument is that because we want to support uploading earlier versions, it's important that REVU isn't used as a repository.
<persia> Also, developers are expected to have a working clean build environment, so it's good practice to do it that way.
<persia> If you're really short on CPU time, a few people have debomatic or other build farm environments up.
<handschuh> persia, mok0: my idea was to create something like lintian, but just for the build process
<handschuh> maybe one can connect revu to a ppa
<handschuh> so that the ppa does the work of compiling
<persia> There's a beta PPA importer to do something like that.
<handschuh> persia: oh, great - so it could be done in that way
<persia> On the other hand, the LP devs finally decided a direction for PPAs, and they are making them first-class repos, which add a lot of versioning and release restrictions that aren't appropriate for REVU.
<handschuh> persia: ok thats a good point
<handschuh> persia: what do you mean by "first-class repositories"?
<persia> From what I understand, essentially somewhere from which you could distribute an entire distro if you wanted (and didn't need components)
<persia> Very focused on providing services to end-users, including care to ensure upgrades happen sanely, signatures for packages, etc.
<persia> Not all that's implemented yet, but the recent set of bug comments indicate that it is the decision.
<persia> As a result, the iterative process to create the perfect package doesn't work well on PPAs now, and can be expected to work less well as the optimisation continues.
<persia> Well, you could do e.g. foo-1.2.3-0ubuntu1~ppa97 but you'd get hit with the version number every time.
<handschuh> persia: thanks for that information ... really interesting
<directhex> yay for PPA signing, that would make my life easier... although i would probably continue to mirror, so i get usage stats
<directhex> i wonder how my download rates are this month
<ScottK> persia: Until they sign PPA repos, then they really shouldn't be considered suitable for anything bug testing.
<persia> directhex, stats are another thing that was mentioned as possible as part of being first-class, although that might take a while to implement.
<persia> ScottK, Right.
<ScottK> bug/but, but anyway ...
<persia> The decision was made that they get signed and get made first class.  Not done yet, but at least decided.
<mok0> persia: If you have a minute? http://pastebin.com/f7f0d7f3f
<persia> As a result of the decision, I'm much more opposed to recommending PPAs for test builds, or package reviews than I was before.
 * persia should have run out of minutes an hour ago
<persia> mok0, What's the question about that?
<mok0> I am OK with not including GPL verbatim, but I think its required
<mok0> ?
<persia> mok0, Not according to http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
<mok0> persia: ... so it needs to be include 1 time
<mok0> thx
<persia> mok0, Oh, right.  Missed that (see previous not about minutes)
<directhex> hm, my usage figures are way down compared to this time last month. i suspect due to people installing intrepid
<directhex> not even 6k users, 2/3 of the way though the month
<stefanlsd> ScottK: still there?
<ScottK> stefanlsd: Yes.
<stefanlsd> ScottK: cool. just wanted to ask you re spambayes and the work you did to get the patches unapplying.  The future_import_fix is now inline. which means i dont think we need dpatch and your other changes. i suspect if there are new other dpatch changes, we would like a working dpatch system (your changes).  soo basically, would you prefer a sync and maybe a bug to BTS making it dpatch compatibile, or keep your patch changes?
<ScottK> stefanlsd: IIRC there were some changes in my version of the future_import patch that didn't make it into Debian.  I suspect they are not needed and thats the first thing to check.
<ScottK> stefanlsd: I don't recall.  Are there other patches in the package?
<stefanlsd> ScottK: kk, will confirm re future_import.  there is a spambayes.dpatch but with the original rules and without dpatch build-dep, it does build
<ScottK> stefanlsd: In that case (assuming the Debian patch is sufficiently complete) I go with sync and file a wishlist bug with the patch.
<stefanlsd> ScottK: yeah, cool. was just writing that
<stefanlsd> ScottK: will check and let you know
<stefanlsd> heh. crumbs
<stefanlsd> http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=3692
<RainCT> siretart: is spooky's connection working fine again?
* RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | Grab a  merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com | It's REVU, go review!
<RainCT> err
* RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | Grab a  merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com | It's REVU Day, go review!
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to:  Masters of the Universe  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | Grab a  merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs | It's REVU Day, go review!
<jerbear> if i've got a patch to an existing package (network-manager-pptp in this case), how would i go about putting the modified package on my ppa (i already have this setup)?
<bain> can some motu take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=teamgit
<bain> it has already received some prilim review :
 * mok0 about to review scim-sayure
 * mok0 about to review scim-sayura
 * mok0 intends to REVU gebabel
<ScottK> dholbach: How does HoF determine the sponsorship numbers?
<dholbach> ScottK: signed-by on the *-changes + mails on the *-sponsors mailing lists
<ScottK> dholbach: Where signed-by != changed-by I guess?
<dholbach> ScottK: yeah
<ScottK> dholbach: That makes sense.  I do worry a bit that such things as HoF demotivate activities that don't count towards it (HoF makes a statement about what work is important in Ubuntu).
 * ScottK wonders how the hour I just spent testing the new kernel in intrepid-proposed moves me towards the HoF?
<dholbach> ScottK: right, I got a lot of feedback about what could go on there as well and I'm still thinking about it - I'm happy to change things like the karma numbers for example
<dholbach> they're so hard to reach that it's no fun
<ScottK> dholbach: I also worry that emphasizing quantity over quality sends a bad message too.
<dholbach> right, I was also thinking of things like "random 5 people who did their 5-a-day this week"
<ScottK> dholbach: That's another place where I think the quantity thing is biting us.
<dholbach> I'm not sure about that
<ScottK> I don't have metrics, but I'm pretty certain I see a lot more 'poorly considered' short comments in bugs by people who clearly don't know enough to be triaging that particular bug.
<dholbach> look at http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/ - we know most of the people on there quite well
<ScottK> I can't say 5 a day is the cause.
<dholbach> exactly
<dholbach> I agree that there's bad stuff on wikis, forums and in the bug tracker
<ScottK> I do think we have a bug triaging problem.
<dholbach> and that we should be discussing improving it
<dholbach> by training, better documentation and maybe having something like a QA council that can deal with and think about governance issues there
<ScottK> dholbach: One thing I've noticed recently is people marking a bug invalid 'because it's already been reported' and not duping to the original bug.  This leaves the reporter of the supposed dupe kind of hanging.
<dholbach> yeah, that definitely sucks
<dholbach> maybe some kind of 'survey' would help or a canned reply saying "It would have been better to do X instead of Y because Z, do you still remember where you learned about the process of doing X?"
<dholbach> or something like that
<dholbach> that way we could get to the root of misinformation
<dholbach> it clearly needs a multi-pronged approach
<dholbach> generally I wouldn't say that the total ratio of "stuff that goes wrong" has increased
<dholbach> it was the same in the ubuntu-bugzilla days, but it's just that the number of people involved in the whole project has grown
<dholbach> I don't have numbers for that though
<james_w> hex version numbers? that's irritating
<dholbach> james_w: hm?
<james_w> dholbach: sponsor request for 0.8.A of a package when we have 0.8.9
 * dholbach shudders slightly
<mok0> In watchfiles, do we promote the use of the qa.debian,org php script for sourceforge ??
<james_w> mok0: it's automatic
<james_w> uscan sees sf.net and replaces it with the qa.debian.org page
<mok0> james_w: ah, so you need to use "sf.net" ??
<james_w> mok0: line 791 of /usr/bin/uscan
<mok0> james_w: thanks
<james_w> so yes, I should say automatic for some cases
<james_w> can someone confirm for me that 0.8.9 < 0.8.A to dpkg?
<mok0> james_w: sorry for being a dud, but how should it appear in watch?
<james_w> I'm always concerned about making a mistake with --compare-version
<james_w> mok0: http://sf.net/whatever I believe
<dholbach> james_w: dpkg --compare-versions 0.8.9 lt 0.8.A && echo TRUE
<james_w> mok0: you can of course just use the qa.debian.org page directly
<james_w> dholbach: thanks for confirming
<dholbach> de rien
<mok0> james_w: yes, there I know how the search string should look like...
<james_w> dholbach: does the hof just look for signed-by != changed-by on the sponsors' lists?
<dholbach> james_w: yeah
<james_w> dholbach: if it looked on the -changes lists it would mean that it would catch the cases where a sponsorship bug is not used, which I expect is common in some cases. Would there be a downside to doing that?
<dholbach> hum, not sure
<eMerzh> if someone want to review my just updated package...it's waiting on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ... thanks :)
<siretart> RainCT: schould be. it works at least for me
<eMerzh> handschuh: I've just correct my package....i've add Copyright everywhere and it works for me
<handschuh> eMerzh: great, so the lintian on the binary is empty?
<eMerzh> handschuh: no warning..just info :)
 * mok0 is about to REVU tomboy-blogposter
<eMerzh> handschuh:  no errors neither
<handschuh> eMerzh: good thing! you also fixed the small things i mentioned, so the package looks very good to me
<mok0> (even though I don't approve of Mono, as observant readers of the ML will have noticed...
<eMerzh> handschuh:  cooool :D happy to read it :)
<laga> mok0: are you morten?
<mok0> Yes
<laga> mok0: good job on that mail. YMMD ;)
<handschuh> eMerzh: good job!
<mok0> I got trashed
<handschuh> eMerzh: has upstream answered to you?
<eMerzh> handschuh: yes ...he is workin on it....
<handschuh> eMerzh: great, then you should add this as a comment @ revu so that other reviewers will not complain about this
<eMerzh> handschuh: done :)
<eMerzh> \me is now looking for Advocate :)
 * eMerzh is now looking for Advocate :)
<handschuh> eMerzh: ok good. so now you can do nothing else except waiting ... or better: prepare your next package  ;-)
<eMerzh> handschuh: hÃ©hÃ© .... thanks for your help anyway :)
<handschuh> eMerzh: you're welcome
 * mok0 about to review docang-theme...
 * mok0 is wondering whether persia managed to review the supercollider thingie
 * handschuh cheers on mok0 for beeing so industriously
 * mok0 hugs handschuh
 * handschuh hugs mok0 back
 * mok0 is about to REVU dodol-theme
 * RainCT tells mok0 that he rocks ;)
 * mok0 is struggling to have more reviews that RainCT ;-P
<mok0> /s/that/than
<mok0> Only 4 to go...
<RainCT> mok0: uhm.. where are you looking? :P
<mok0> RainCT: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/stats.py
<RainCT> mok0: 133-107 isn't 4 :P
 * mok0 is struggling to have more reviews than dktrkranz :-P
<mok0> my bad
<RainCT> ah :)
<mok0> No hope of getting above 2nd place though
<RainCT> lol
<mok0> persia rules
<RainCT> yeah, it's difficult to beat robots :P
<mok0> LOL
<RainCT> although, he's going to holiday.. so now I only need to see him laugh and he will have proved that he's human ;P
<sebner> RainCT: at least he uses smilies. bot's with smilies? ^^
<RainCT> he does?
<RainCT> well, my previous IRC bot used smilies too ^^
<sebner> RainCT: even good ones like :)
<sebner> heh
 * RainCT goes to review gnome-video-arcabe before mok0 get's a chance to beat me :P
<mok0> Yikes
 * mok0 is about to revu mac4lin-gdm-themes
<RainCT> wah, someone stop him! *g*
 * handschuh is even more impressed by todays attitude
<mok0> ... working mechanically  from the top...
 * RainCT can't parse that sentence
<RainCT> mok0: good, persia will love you :)
<RainCT> I shall do that to, once I finish with the REVU Day targets
<RainCT> *too - my English is awful today :P
<mok0> RainCT: ... well, not quite the top, since persia said he was reviewing the supercollider thing
<RainCT> btw guys, feel free to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Headers/NextREVUDay if I forget to do so :P
<DktrKranz> mok0: argh! :)
 * RainCT throws a REVU url at DktrKranz 
 * DktrKranz hasn't a browser, but will have tonight
 * RainCT wonders what DktrKranz is using :P
<RainCT> (just curiosity, I'm fine with tonight :))
<handschuh> isn't there an option to automatically export the next revu date from revu onto the wiki?
<DktrKranz> RainCT: blocked by a strict firewall
<RainCT> handschuh: REVU takes it from the wiki
<handschuh> RainCT: ok, great
 * handschuh hates redundant data
<RainCT> and I don't feel like writing a script to edit it automatically (would probably take more time than I need to change it myself :P)
<RainCT> DktrKranz: that sucks :(
<DktrKranz> RainCT: we're under a multinational, and connections are proxied by their server, which blocks HTTP traffic, only SMTP/SSH is allowed
<DktrKranz> so, I tunnelled irc traffic ;)
<RainCT> And w3m/elinks over SSH? *g*
<RainCT> ok.. you can't really what you get with that a web :P
<DktrKranz> RainCT: exactly ;)
 * DktrKranz kills asterisk
<RainCT> longtitle="Play classic arcade games"   is that appropiate in a .menu file?
 * RainCT reviews alarm-clock-applet
<eMerzh> \me is now looking for Advocate or comments (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman)...RainCT if you are in a reviewing mood...your welcome :p
 * RainCT asks for feedback on the get-orig-source rule from http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/alarm-clock-applet-0808280150/alarm-clock-applet-0.2.4/debian/rules
<RainCT> the last line is evil, isn't it?
<mok0> eMerzh: what's with the legal issue?
<eMerzh> mok0: upstream autor was contacted to correct issues...he answer that he is workin on it....
<mok0> eMerzh: ... shouldn't we wait for that to be resolved?
 * mok0 is not going to help RainCT maintain his reviewing lead :-P
<eMerzh> mok0: legal issues are minors i think no? like old fsf address in sources , ....
<mok0> eMerzh: ah
<RainCT> mok0: *g*
<mok0> RainCT: ... but more likely I'm fading... what's wrong with that rule, doesn't it work?
<RainCT> mok0: it recompresses the tarball
<RainCT> which changes the checksum, iirc..
<mok0> RainCT: ah, yes, that's kinda redundant...
<mok0> The policy is to use gzip -9 mode, but that's not mandatory for pristine tarballs afaik
<RainCT> bah I can't find anything else wrong
<mok0> RainCT: advocate it
<mok0> RainCT: next advocate can remove that before upload
 * RainCT needs to test-build and test-install it first.. but this isn't funny :P
<mok0> RainCT: yeah, I wonder why anyone wants to be MOTU
<RainCT> heh
 * mok0 is about to review sqliteman
 * RainCT looks at mac4lin-icons while pbuilder updates
<mok0> ... breaking the tedious top-to-bottom processing
<RainCT> mok0: people who ask on IRC have priority ;)
 * handschuh is glad about this
<mok0> RainCT: yeah, but these guys are spoiled... they've been hanging around for days :-)
<RainCT> btw, can a pbuilder tgz be converted to cowbuilder?
<eMerzh> \me thanks mok0 for watching :)
<mok0> Hmm, what's in the sqliteman tarball... ETA is going UP??
<rugueux> does anyone know how to compile a java source with a build.xml (I suppose from eclipse) ?
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Can someone review dvdstyler (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler)? It's also built in my ppa. Thanks
<james_w> rugueux: ant is the tool to build from a build.xml
<slytherin> rugueux: why do you need eclipse for that?
<rugueux> I don't know, i've just searched around, and found that build.xml is created by eclipse
<rugueux> I won't to find how to compile it, in order to package
<rugueux> wan't
<fabrice_sp> Hi james_w: about Bug #296618. What do you mean by transitional package?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296618 in icedove-dispmua "[Merge request]Please merge icedove-dispmua 1.6.2-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296618
<handschuh> rugueux: first of all, install ant
<rugueux> I've install the package libantlr-java, but could not find the ant binary, where is it ?
<eMerzh> mok0: sorry but what did you mean by "eta"?
<mok0> "Expected Time of Arrival"
<mok0> eMerzh: but I got it now
<james_w> fabrice_sp: what in your proposed package causes someone with icedove-dispmua to end up with dispmua installed?
<handschuh> rugueux: the package you need is named "ant" (nothing more)
<rugueux> handschuh thank u, I'll try right now
<fabrice_sp> james_w: I explicitly put conflicts and replaces lines in control file, and I checked that with thunderbird-dispmua installed, I ended with dispmua installed
<fabrice_sp> after a apt-get update / upgrade
<james_w> odd
<slytherin> rugueux: build.xml is java world analogous to Makefile
<fabrice_sp> odd? It shouldn't have worked?
<RainCT> those mac4lin packages scare me :P
<slytherin> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
 * RainCT rejects -icons with licensing complaints :P
<RainCT> mok0: yeah, found another problem with alarm-clock-applet! :P
<mok0> RainCT: it doesn't build?
<RainCT> mok0: It does. The name of file debian/*.manpages is wrong
<mok0> RainCT: ah, nice catch
<slytherin> When does the sync from Debian happen in a day? Is it once a day?
<mok0> eMerzh: done
 * mok0 goes to pick up a pizza now...
<rugueux> compiling the java source is failing because missing jdesktop files, I've installed libjdic-java, but still not working ? any ID ?
<eMerzh> mok0: thanks
<mok0> eMerzh: you're welcome
<handschuh> rugueux: I have to go home now, but then I will help you if noone else does it until then
 * handschuh finally goes home
<slytherin> rugueux: what are you trying to compile?
<rugueux> a jar file from a gui-application...
<slytherin> rugueux: which application? where did you get the source?
<rugueux> http://www.homeopathyonline.org/download_OpenRep.html
<fabrice_sp> james_w: I just made another test, and you're right: dispmua (the new package) doesn't install automatically. I think I install it from a local package, and when updating from ppa, It installed the latest and desinstall the old one. So what do you recommendme: keep the old name or create a transitional package?
<james_w> create a transitional package
<james_w> why is your new package called "dispmua"
<fabrice_sp> Because I packaged other thunderbird plugin, and I've been requested each time to delete 'thunderbird' from package name
<fabrice_sp> (like itsalltext or vimperator)
<fabrice_sp> That's why I wanted to follow the same rule with dispmua
<fabrice_sp> is it a bad idea?
<eMerzh> mok0: when you said README.source is redundant. ...should i remove it?
<mok0> yes
<james_w> fabrice_sp: ok, that's fine
<RainCT> mok0: you dislike README.source, too? :)
<slytherin> rugueux: looks like it can be compiled only from netbeans. Tell them to release with a build.xml that is not dependent on an IDE.
<mok0> heh,depends... if it doesn't contain any useful inormation...
<RainCT> wuahahaha.. 21 comments more and I'll beat ScottK :P
<mok0> It's just one more file to maintain, and README.source tends to go out-of-date quickly
<fabrice_sp> Can someone point me to how creating a transitional package to migrate from thunderbird-dispmua to dispmua? I've some idea but I'd prefer to follow some rules
<mok0> Go, RainCT!!
 * RainCT laughs at the current "Next REVU Day" text on REVU
<rugueux> slytherin, thank u, I'll try to ask them
 * RainCT fixes it
<ScottK> RainCT: On what?
 * mok0 will be afk for a while
<JonReagan> yipeee... fixed all the problems (problems, so far) in my package!  I can has REVU? :)  It's the openproj package... http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=openproj
<fabrice_sp> james_w: just uploaded a new debdiff in Bug #296618 with the transitional package. Can you have a quick look, and tells me if it looks good? Thanks.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296618 in icedove-dispmua "[Merge request]Please merge icedove-dispmua 1.6.2-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296618
<james_w> fabrice_sp: changelog entry for the transitional package missing
<james_w> do you not want to capitalise thunderbird in the short description?
<james_w> transitional package should be icedove- not thunderbird- shouldn't it?
<fabrice_sp> james_w: the intrepid package has been named thunderbird-
<fabrice_sp> (I changed the name for Intrepid, has it ws a FTBFS)
<james_w> oh yeah, sorry
<james_w> not sure the section is correct
<handschuh> rugueux: could your problem be solved?
<james_w> you need Conflicts/Replaces as files are moving between packages
 * handschuh follows mok0's example and eats a pizza
<slytherin> JonReagan: I was going to try building your package, but looks like it will take me at least 1 hour, after that I will add comments.
<james_w> is the priority different to the other package? if not then don't put make it explicit
<fabrice_sp> james_w: about section: I copy it from another package. And I will put back Conflicts/Replaces also. What do you mean capitalise thunderbird in the short description?
<james_w> fabrice_sp: I'm done for the day, I'll look at any debdiff on the bug next time I'm around
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> thanks!
<james_w> you've changed "Icedove" to "thunderbird"
<james_w> do you not want "Thunderbird"?
<fabrice_sp> ahhhhh: sure
<JonReagan> thanks slytherin
<fabrice_sp> It's only a languaqe problem :-)
<fabrice_sp> thanks again james_w
<DktrKranz> RainCT, now I've got a browser, have some cool packages? ;)
<RainCT> DktrKranz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVUDays :)
<DktrKranz> thanks
<RainCT> ScottK: REVU Ranking ("Statistics" menu entry) :P
<ScottK> RainCT: How about a stat for most times found something wrong after another MOTU had advocated (MOTU comment follows an advocation, but doesn't advocate)?
<RainCT> ScottK: uhmmm.. perhaps once neutral comments are implemented, but I'm not very fond of this
<bmm> I'm trying out CDBS, just for the fun of it, and debuild gives me a problem with install-info: too many arguments. I have debian/lzip.info with one line containing "doc/lzip.info" which is an info file. What is going wrong?
<bmm> This is the output: http://pastebin.com/m7645ca1f
<slytherin> geser: Just FYI ... I am still working on libjdic-java. I hope to have it fixed by tomorrow.
<fabrice_sp> Somebody knows why I'm getting that in REVU, in legal link:
<fabrice_sp> /var/revu/revu1-incoming/dvdstyler-0811190636/dvdstyler-1.7.1/src/Utils.h: UNKNOWN
<fabrice_sp>   [Copyright: Alex Thuering]
<fabrice_sp> in the sourc efile, it's references GPL
 * mok0 is about to review mac4lin-splash
<superm1> slytherin, did you ever sort out that issue with nautilus-sendto?
 * mok0 is about to review glusterfs
<slytherin> superm1: nope, sorry. :-(
<slytherin> superm1: was busy after that with work. Haven't really found time to look into bluetooth again.
<superm1> that's a shame.  could you keep an eye on upstream then at least and see if they ever end up rev'ing it with a fix themselves?
<slytherin> superm1: sure.
<bmm> Could somebody look at http://pastebin.com/m7645ca1f and tell me why the install-info gives an error and why it is ignored by CDBS ?
 * mok0 about to review bitmeter
<fabrice_sp> bmm: install-info only needs a filename, and you are giving him a filename and a directory
<fabrice_sp> mok0: not willing to review dvdstyler? ;-)
<mok0> fabrice_sp: ok
<bmm> fabrice_sp: currently, I have a debian/lzip.info file which mentions "doc/lzip.info" in a single line. The rest is all default dh_make with CDBS enabled. So what might be causing this problem?
<bmm> fabrice_sp: I'll put it on REVU, maybe that can show me the error of my ways ;) I'll post back when it's there. Thanks for you response!
<fabrice_sp> bmm: ok. I'm not an expoert on CDBS myself, but will try to help :-)
<bmm> fabrice_sp: first time for me also, so I have no idea what all those defaults are doing.. let only what is happening if they don't ;)
<fabrice_sp> bmm: that's why I don't like that 'automatic' things. I prefer to understand how things work, even if it's more manual ;-)
<slytherin> mok0: openproj got review from java centric reviewer. :-)
<mok0> slytherin: great!
<slytherin> JonReagan: reviewed openproj. You have got at least 2 days of work ahead. :-)
 * mok0 hugs JonReagan
 * mok0 need to update builder
 * slytherin resumes watching movie
<bmm> fabrice_sp: it's now on REVU, here: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4084 with a small lintian error on the standards version.
<bmm> Maybe the error is actually normal behavior
<fabrice_sp> bmm: will check :-)
<fabrice_sp> bmm: lintian error is because of out-of-date standard. Nothing to do with CDBS
<fabrice_sp> trying to build the package here, in Intrepid
<mok0> fabrice_sp: is dvdstyler in lenny?
<fabrice_sp> mok0: no. It's only the upstream changelog that comes with that (you can download the package from sourceforge)
<fabrice_sp> upstream provides a debian directory
<mok0> fabrice_sp: ah, ok. You need to get rid of the by repackaging the tarball
<mok0> get rid of that
<mok0> fabrice_sp: we don't want upstreams changelogs
<mok0> fabrice_sp: debian/changelog that is
<fabrice_sp> mok0: ok. So I repack the tarball, to get rid of all the debian directory or only the changelog?
<mok0> fabrice_sp: we _do_ want the ordinary Changelog
<mok0> fabrice_sp: the whole debian/
<fabrice_sp> of course :-)
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> mok0: thanks for taking time to review the package! :-)
<mok0> fabrice_sp: ok, I'll carry on, assuming that you take over the debian/ that is in the package.
<mok0> fabrice_sp: when you build the source package, debian/ will end up in the diff.gz
<fabrice_sp> mok0: will do (I'm repacking the tarball right now :-) )
<mok0> fabrice_sp: so, you will need a "get-orig-source" target in rules to create the repackage tarball
<JonReagan> oh. geez.. shoulda stuck to the list... thanks slytherin... what work needs to be done?
<RainCT> bmm: I think CDBS just calls dh_installinfo
<JonReagan> ah, now I see, thanks for the comment
<RainCT> bmm: (and I have no idea what info files are, so I can't help)
<fabrice_sp> mok0: this will allow to download the source again, right?
<fabrice_sp> mok0: ok. Found a wiki page explaining that ;-) Thanks
<mok0> fabrice_sp: you have the watch file to download the upstream tarball. Then you have the get-orig-source rule to repackage it
<bmm> RainCT: that is the weird thing, I thought I did it the way dh_installinfo wants me to, but I still get this error. Maybe I just did everything the way I should ;)
<mok0> fabrice_sp: If you are smart, you can make fancy tricks with the watch file to make it call the repackage command after downloading.
<fabrice_sp> mok0: I would say skilled, and not only smart :-)  Will look for other packages to see how to do that :-)
<mok0> fabrice_sp: If you like, it's not required  though
<mok0> fabrice_sp: If you get hit by a bus (God forbid) the new maintainer needs to be able to do what you have done
<fabrice_sp> mok0: I like the idea of doing smart things, but not of being hit by a bus :-)
 * mok0 nods
<mok0> fabrice_sp: comments ready
<fabrice_sp> mok0: great! Thanks for your time :-)
 * mok0 about to review bitmeter
 * bmm is loving the fact that his PPA support Jaunty and he can go do both REVU and PPA at the same time.
<NCommander> RainCT finally turned on that code
<NCommander> w00t
 * NCommander doesn't see the package importer ...
 * bmm made that same Maintainer: field mistake AGAIN and can't understand why no automated system points that out on REVU
<RainCT> bmm: which mistake, listing yourself as Maintainer?
<bmm> RainCT: yep, not mentioning MOTU
<RainCT> it's easy to add a check for that.. which addresses are allowed there, only @ubuntu.com or was there something more?
<bmm> Well, if REVU is only used for MOTU development, then a check on the mention of Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> in control would help
<RainCT> bmm: no, people are allowed to list themselves if they want and they have an @ubuntu.com
<bmm> Then "@(.+\.)?ubuntu.com" might help?
<RainCT> and there are also teams and stuff (well, not sure if there's any team right now using their ML as Maintainer in Ubuntu, but that's certainly allowed)
<RainCT> bmm: that's not the problem, the question is if it's only @ubuntu.com or something else.. because I think there was something more
<RainCT> but perhaps I dreamed that :P
<bmm> RainCT: at least "lists.ubuntu.com" but for the rest I don't know, sorry.
<RainCT> uhm.. the wiki only says ubuntu.com
 * RainCT add a check
<bmm> maybe conanical.com or something like that? I don't know, but it might be good to just make it a warning ;)
<nhandler> If a MOTU Acked a Sync request (for a package in Universe), but forget to set the status to 'Confirmed', is it ok for me to do it?
<RainCT> nhandler: presumably
 * nhandler goes to review a few packages on REVU before dinner
<RainCT> bmm: done, REVU will show a warning now
<NCommander> And I'm off to dinner
<directhex> this sounds quite daft when i type it: "i have root on over a million and a half pounds of computers"
<nhandler> If a person packages an application for a PPA, how should they be recognized if another person takes their package and tries to get it through the REVU process? Should they be listed as the person who debianized the application in debian/copyright?
<ScottK> nhandler: If their package was mostly correct, then I'd say yes.
<nhandler> ScottK: Ok, but what about the XSBC-Original-Maintainer and the Debian Packaging Copyright? Should those be for the person sending it through REVU or the person who originally packaged it for the PPA?
<ScottK> Copyright is a function of who did the work, so the original guy and the new person can list themselves if they view their contribution as significant.
<ScottK> I'd say original maintainer is the guy bringing it to REVU.
<nhandler> Ok, thanks a lot ScottK
<directhex> ScottK, how about if you start with someone else's package, and every single file you go to improve you end up needing to rewrite due to crap packaging?
<ScottK> directhex: I'd still list both in debian/copyright. Unless you start from a clean room, it's a derivative work.
<directhex> ScottK, okay, good, that's what i've done
<directhex> though i plan on rewriting the package description to remove retarded appeasements I put in due to an unnamed DD moaning. fsck him, right in the ear. it's ftpmaster's call, not his, on whether the description is good enough
<slytherin> Does anyone have any idea what could be wrong here - http://paste.ubuntu.com/75453/
<laga> directhex: CoC FTW :)
<mok0> Anyone has an example of how a Launchpad watch file should look like?
<ScottK> directhex: If he's going to sponsor it, it's his call.  You can always find another sponsor.
<directhex> ScottK, no, he'd never sponsor it. he'd not only like the package never to see the archive, but for me to be shot into the sun for suggesting it
<slytherin> directhex: you are still stuck at the same issue?
<ScottK> Ah.  I see.  Well he's entitled to that opinion too.
<nhandler> mok0: Look at the uscan man page. It shows a few examples.
<mok0> nhandler: ah.. now why didn't I think of that...
<mok0> nhandler: thx
<nhandler> mok0: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/intrepid/en/man1/uscan.html
<nhandler> np mok0
<directhex> ScottK, well, of course. but some topics inspire demagogy, and if attempting to meet in the middle doesn't go anywhere, i fail to see why i should continue user-unfriendly self-gimping
<slytherin> mok0: why should launchpad be any different from any other site?
<mok0> slytherin: I dunno... getting tired I suppose
<directhex> slytherin, which issue are we talking about today? being shot into the sun? well, due to alpha1-induced boredom, i accused the guy behind boycottnovell of libel, for saying i was getting paid off by someone for working on mono packaging
<ScottK> slytherin: Launchpad usually is (different).
<mok0> slytherin: also LP has version numbers in the path
<ScottK> directhex: Why would it be libel?  Would it be bad to get paid?
<slytherin> directhex: I thought you were talking about the moonlight plugin
<directhex> slytherin, good guess! i was! want a cookie? i have a spare one here
<slytherin> directhex: nah, use it while your work on mono packages. :-)
<directhex> ScottK, "They need Mono.. they do it for a living and the poison the most-used distro"
<directhex> slytherin, i'm blocked on alpha 1 - though i'm arguing with upstream that they should really release a new tarball real soon now so i can get it into jaunty asap
<directhex> slytherin, want to be certain moon is offered by the plugin finder service - though due to JS nastiness, that may need some extra magic. where's asac hiding...
<slytherin> mok0: any sample url?
<mok0> Arch, I can
<mok0> can't get it to work...
<ScottK> directhex: Ugly, but unlikely to be actual libel (at least as I understand it in most US jurisdictions).
<mok0> http://pastebin.com/f3f898424
<directhex> ScottK, fortunately, BN's main muckraker is in britain, and britain has mad libel laws that mean you can sue left right & center
<directhex> it's actually common enough for people in other countries to sue you in britain, because they know they'll win - if your content can be accessed in any way within the isles, it counts
<lfaraone> james_w: is bzr-builddeb ready for use in actual packages yet?
<lfaraone> (how can I use bzr to maintain packaging)
<ScottK> Yes.  I've heard that.  Then he ought to be more careful.
<RainCT> good night
<ScottK> Good night RainCT
<directhex> nighty night, sweet RainCT
<mok0> Good night RainCT
<nhandler> Night RainCT
<laga> good night RainCT
<RainCT> wow, best answer ever :P
<directhex> man, if i thought i'd get this sort of reaction, i'd announce sleepytime more often
<laga> i'm going to go to bed, too
 * laga wonders what's gonna happen
<RainCT> good night laga :)
<laga> yay. :)
<laga> g'night
<slytherin> mok0: I guess bluez package has some sort of html parsing to retrieve download url from the page. See if that helps.
<slytherin> mok0: I mean the watch file in bluez.
<mok0> slytherin: I figured out the problem. The second "https" should be a "http"
 * mok0 sighs
<mok0> slytherin: but now hear what it says: "remote site does not even have current version" :-)
<slytherin> mok0: that is probably because your expression is wrong
<mok0> slytherin: no, it's because the package version is 0.1.0 and the upstream tarball is 0.0.5
<slytherin> mok0: I guess it should be ([\d.]+)
<directhex> mok0, why?
<mok0> directhex: why what?
<directhex> why is the package 0.1.0 if upstream tar is 0.0.5?
<mok0> Newest version on remote site is 0.0.5, local version is 0.1.0
<mok0> Perhaps they changed the numbering scheme?
<directhex> how silly
<mok0> ... or perhaps he meant 0.0.1 ??
<mok0> I will let uploader explain this mess...
 * mok0 calls it a day after 16 REVUs today.
<nhandler> mok0: You are a REVU beast
<handschuh>  mok0: great job!
<mok0> We're almost through July
<mok0> Thanks guys!
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-22
 * nhandler only reviewed a few packages
<mok0> Now, if all MOTUs would just take 1 every day...
<mok0> We'd be back on track over the weekend...
<mok0> "Back on track" meaning that people would get their upload reviewed within a week
<handschuh> mok0: how many active MOTUs are on revu?
 * slytherin is still waiting for REVU hackers to implement tagging system
<nhandler> handschuh: Based on the stats page, not many (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/stats.py)
<mok0> handschuh: Hard to say... maybe around 10
<nhandler> The Top Advocators list hasn't even been filled yet
<mok0> Some of the people in top 15 aren't MOTUs
<handschuh> mok0: ok ... do MOTUs loose their MOTU status sometimes?
<nhandler> handschuh: I believe it expires every few months
<mok0> handschuh: If they don't renew it
<handschuh> mok0: good to know, thanks
<mok0> handschuh: If you look at https://edge.launchpad.net/~motu/+members you can see that quite a few have their membership expire
<mok0> handschuh: perhaps some of them have moved on the main developers
<emgent> heya
<james_w> thanks freeflying
<james_w> lfaraone: hi, still around?
<freeflying> james_w: hi
<freeflying> james_w: u r welcome
<james_w> freeflying: I knew I had seen your name somewhere related to this, but I forgot it was you that wrote the file originally :-)
<freeflying> james_w: btw, I will upload a svn sanpshot of new fcitx to ubuntu later
<james_w> freeflying: shall I refrain from syncing that fixed Debian version then?
<freeflying> james_w: I will based on the version in Debian :)
<james_w> cool, less work for me :-)
<lfaraone> james_w: yes
<james_w> hi lfaraone
<james_w> how are you?
<lfaraone> james_w: fine, thanks.
<lfaraone> james_w: I was working on a new package, and was wondering if bzr-builddeb is safe enough for a packaging newbie.
<james_w> should be
<lfaraone> james_w: kk.
<Leon_Nardella> MOTU sponsors ack for sync. <-- What does this mean in a bug report?
<james_w> Leon_Nardella: if someone who does not yet have upload rights request that we pull an updated package from Debian a developer must first confirm the request before it is processed, so that we make sure that it won't cause problems
<james_w> the act of confirming it is known as "sponsoring", and so that comment means that a developer is happy for the sync to take place
<Leon_Nardella> Thanks, james_w
<lfaraone> james_w: I've looked at the bzr-builddeb docs, and I'm wondering how I'd import from an upstream bzr tree.
<james_w> why would you import?
<james_w> if upstream is in bzr then branch to add the packaging
<persia> Or merge if you've already history
<persia> Same thing ought work for git, hg, svn, etc.
<lfaraone> james_w: well, ideally I'd like to not have my repo version the upstream code, since I won't be touching that.
<nhandler> REVU is no longer being used for new upstream releases, correct?
<james_w> this was something expressed in the Kubuntu meeting the other day as well
<NCommander> hey persia
<james_w> if you are going to use a distributed VCS, which is great at merging by definition, why would you then layer a patch system on top, which is not going to be as good at merging?
<ScottK-laptop> james_w: Because we're a Debian derivative and they use patch systems mostly.
<james_w> if you are not going to patch the upstream source at all then that's obviously not a very convincing argument
<james_w> ScottK-laptop: true, and that argument I appreciate.
<ScottK-laptop> In the case of KDE, not using a patch system would make coordination with Debian substiantially harder.
<james_w> ScottK-laptop: mentioning Kubuntu probably wasn't wise, this is a new package.
<ScottK-laptop> Also there are performance reasons.
<lfaraone> james_w: this is a new package that I am targeting for ubuntu, but am going to submit to debian.
<james_w> lfaraone: yeah, but you'll be the maintainer in Debian I assume, so there's no problem with that part.
<ScottK-laptop> wget the tarball then then play with the debian dir in the VCS is a lot faster.
<lfaraone> ScottK-laptop: see... that's the problem, there is no real "tarball"... as this is a "BZR release"
<james_w> ScottK-laptop: if the upstream is in bzr then performance is going to be ok for this package. I accept your point in general.
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.
<ScottK-laptop> So what's a bzr release?
<james_w> presumably not really a release at all
<lfaraone> ScottK-laptop: it's a "here's the code we've written, we havn't really 'released' it yet, but it's OK to use"
<ScottK-laptop> As james_w says then.
<ScottK-laptop> pre-release snapshot.
<jdong> eesh nothing more painful than fixing Debian over the phone with the fols :)
<jdong> folks*
<nhandler> REVU is no longer being used for new upstream releases, correct?
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: You could be fixing Vista.  That's probably more painful.
<jdong> I did find a good use for Skype as a remote desktop type program :)
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler: Generally, yes.
<jdong> "Alright now point the webcam at the monitor..."
<persia> nhandler, Wasn't ever intentionally
<nhandler> persia: Wiki pages used to tell people to use REVU for new upstream releases
<jdong> and it turned out to be the 180-day e2fsck on the main storage drive with is 1.5TB
<jdong> any guesses how many decades that'll take?
<persia> james_w, ScottK: Note that this argument isn't about bzr vs. others, it applies generally to VCS packaging.  There are two ways to do it: either include upstream source or don't.  Both have drawbacks of various sorts, and both have advantages.
<ScottK-laptop> persia: Agreed.
<persia> nhandler, Please fix that.  They aren't correct.  People should add the .diff.gz to a bug.
<nhandler> persia: Most of them have already been patched. I just wanted to confirm this before I commented on a certain package on REVU which is for a new upstream release
<ScottK-laptop> james_w: Is someone working on making bzr work with python 2.6?
<james_w> ScottK-laptop: yes
<james_w> ScottK-laptop: I believe it is compatible
<ScottK-laptop> james_w: OK.  It has some from __future__ import stuff in it.
<ScottK-laptop> That means it needs checking.  As long as someone is doing it.
<james_w> or rather I should say, "it is compatible". However, we have had a couple of bugs since that point due to things being missed
<james_w> it seems python2.6 removed a couple of things without deprecation, though they may of course be considered internal
<ScottK-laptop> We're going to have 2.6 in Jaunty (not as default I'd expect), so ...
<ScottK-laptop> Lovely.
<james_w> I haven't seen the __future__ stuff though, I'll take a look, thanks.
<nhandler> persia: Upon closer examination of the package, they are actually renaming it from 'foo' to 'foo-x.y' to allow multiple versions to be installed at the same time.
<ScottK-laptop> wgrant just grepped the entire archive's python packages for me and that's one that came up.
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler: Doesn't need to go on REVU.
<james_w> from __future__ import generators
<ScottK-laptop> There you go.
<james_w> it's in the embedded configobj
<nhandler> Thanks ScottK-laptop.
<james_w> ScottK-laptop: happen to know off hand what will happen with that one?
<ScottK-laptop> james_w: No.  I've been avoiding the topic (2.6) up to now.
<james_w> ScottK-laptop: ok, thanks. I'll file a bug.
<wgrant> Hmm.
<wgrant> I doubt that needs a change...
<wgrant> Because generators have been available by default since at least 2.5, and probably 2.4 too.
<lfaraone> Hey, in my python debian package the setup.py is located in $BASEOFPACKAGE/gasp/setup.py, rather than where it would normally. How do I tell CDBS that?
<ScottK-laptop> lfaraone: If you grab pymilter there's a setup.py in a non-standard location in that package.
<lfaraone> ScottK-laptop: thanks
<lfaraone> ScottK-laptop: yeah... I looked at it, and am still stumped...
<lfaraone> ScottK-laptop: despite the rules I adopted, it still tries to use the default.
<ScottK-laptop> lfaraone: Pastebin your debian/rules
<james_w> DEB_PYTHON_SETUP_CMD = gasp/setup.py ?
<lfaraone> james_w: er... I _just_ figured that out. heh...
<CarlFK>  "Package liblame-dev is not available,... following packages replace it:   libmp3lame-dev"   "I've changed the liblame0     library name to libmp3lame0, and some packages are not yet in Lenny, so some     others packages aren't installable" - ï»¿http://www.debian-multimedia.org/
<CarlFK> how can I work around that?
<CarlFK> output from apt-get build-dep transcode ï»¿http://dpaste.com/92833
<ScottK-laptop> james_w: I just did it with a build rule that said python ./debian/spf-setup.py build - Your way is more CDBS like.
<james_w> my way may not even work though :-)
<lfaraone> james_w: oh, it works perfectly!
<james_w> score!
<lfaraone> james_w: (just installed the resulting package, "import gasp" worked properly)
<james_w> has anyone encountered d-shlibs before?
<james_w> or the d-devlibdeps command provided by it?
<serialorder> I have a stupid (read simple) question. On the merge-o-matic status pages there are two different colors of green, what do the different colors mean?
<james_w> I believe it is the priority of the package
<ScottK> It's to do with how recently it's been merged.  The greener the more recent.
<ScottK> I don't understand the exact algorithm though.
<james_w> on main: apt-setup -> installer -> red
<james_w> apt -> important -> orange-yellow
<james_w> at -> standard -> green-yellow
<james_w> acpid -> optional -> light green
<james_w> ipsec-tools -> extra -> dark green
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  That makes sense.
<stefanlsd> ScottK: the fix future import for spambayes. I've been through them all, i think there were problem ones that we moved up in the debian version (above __author__ and ___credits___) - there are some that havent moved. Did you just patch to move them higher as a matter of course?
<artfwo> Hi! May I ask what is the proper way of packaging software with debian/ included?
<stefanlsd> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<artfwo> Well, I want to maintain debian/ directory in my program myself and when I try to build the package from source I get warnings about "native" package
<artfwo> The debian mentors FAQ suggests not using native packages for general purposes, so I need an advice on those
<stefanlsd> artfwo: Someone may be able to advise better, but i believe its generally discouraged for upstream to maintain /debian
<stefanlsd> artfwo: Often something changes on the debian side, and we need to update /debian stuff for multiple packages. If bugs are filed, we cant fix them, etc
<artfwo> so, is it better for me to exclude debian/ from the tarball and provide .diff.gz instead?
<stefanlsd> artfwo: yes, better
<artfwo> ok, thanks for clarifying this :)
<stefanlsd> artfwo: http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-mentors@lists.debian.org/msg17466.html       also has a thread about it
<artfwo> hmm, I see
<slytherin> If I am dropping any previous Ubuntu changes when doing a merge, do I have to mention them in changelog? Or is it sufficient to mention in the bug.
<Hobbsee> the latter
<Hobbsee> you keep the remaining ubuntu changes in the changelog
<slytherin> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> slytherin: you're welcome
<slytherin> geser: persia: Debian's latest lucene2 version uses libdb4.5-java as build dependency. Is it ok to switch to libdb4.7-java?
<persia> slytherin: I'm a big fan of dropping older versions of db.  What's the user data migration strategy?
<persia> slytherin: The issue is that often different versions of db don't have binary-compatible storage, so depending on how or why it's used, transition can be tricky.
<soren> persia: I was under the impression that the db formats were compatible, and the problems only arose when transactions were involved.
<soren> Is that not so?
<persia> soren, I'm a little hazy on the details.  I thought that some version changes caused larger effects than others.  More than anything, I think it's worth investigation rather than blindly changing the version.
<soren> Oh, certainly.
<persia> I do know that for some packages, you can change the version without worry, and for others you need to take care.  I have no idea where lucene2 falls on that scale.
<soren> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReducingDuplication agrees that only transactions are a problem.
<persia> soren, Thanks for tracking down a resource for that.
 * soren tips his hat
<persia> slytherin: In the hopes you scan backscroll from irclogs.ubuntu.com: that's the doc you want to check against lucene2 to take your decision.
<persia> soren, Do you know if anyone is working to drop those completely, rather than just pushing stuff to universe?
 * persia still sees *lots* of libdb* packages in jaunty
<soren> persia: Dunno. I think Debian intends to drop them, so we'd better follow suit.
<persia> Well, there's a couple archive-admins who scan sync-packages-only-in-Ubuntu and drop them every few weeks.  I just like to move in advance for clearly useless stuff like that.
<persia> Personally, I doubt Debian will drop them during Lenny.
<deufrai> Hi there, I need advice about packaging.
<deufrai> I'm working (first of all) on a binary package for an app I wrote, to get the feeling about how things are done
<deufrai> and I got a hard time having a menu entry right
<deufrai> here is my menu file => http://pastebin.com/m511004c3
<deufrai> I'm working with dh-make tools, and got sure my 'rules' file do call dh_installmenu
<deufrai> usr/share/menu/qrest file _is_ part of the generated binary package, but after installing the package on my 8.04 system, I still miss the menu entry
<deufrai> any advice ?
<azeem> deufrai: is this a GNOME or KDE app?
<deufrai> this is a Qt app, but I don't intend to tighten it to either wm
<azeem> it should probably have a .desktop file then, rather
<azeem> could be that menu files are not displayed in the Ubuntu menu by default
<deufrai> azeem: oh, right. I'll dig in the .desktop direction
<geser> iirc  the menu package isn't installed by default, Ubuntu prefers to use .desktop files
<deufrai> where should this file be installed ?
<azeem> see the freedesktop.org spec
<deufrai> azeem: ok, thanx
<deufrai> azeem: great ! Still need to find the right category. Thanx for your help
<deufrai> geser: you too
* RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | Grab a   merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com |  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs
<et3> hello everyone
<et3> I want to package fonts.  I have never made a package before.
<et3> Besides the editing a debian control file.  What do I do?
<slytherin> et3: have you read all the packaging documentation?
<et3> slytherin: I've browsed through it last night.
<et3> I have pbuilder ready
<et3> I don't have a key yet
<slytherin> et3: so that documentation should tell you all the files you need to create. And since this is the first time you are creating package I suggest take a look at some existing packages.
<et3> slytherin: like hello-world?
<slytherin> et3: yup
<et3> alright.
<ScottK> stefanlsd: Yes.  I just moved them all and I don't think it was needed.
<nhandler> Is there a way to figure out if a package in Debian has been renamed?
<geser> nhandler: check the changelog, but that only works if you knew the new name
<persia> You could also use grep-dctrl to look for Replaces: headers, which are a good indicator.
<sebner> persia: do you plan to vote before you leave? (May missunderstood your mail)
<savvas> If I want to provide three packages in different sections (devel, libs and libdevel), does anyone know what section do I use for the source?
<azeem> the most appropriate one I think
<azeem> probably devel
<savvas> um.. devel?
<savvas> oki dokie
<persia> sebner, For anyone who applied previously to the 20th, yes.  I'm nearly done with those reviews.
<sebner> persia: I see, thx
<persia> For people who applied after the 20th, I doubt I'll be able to do so.
<persia> savvas, libs usually.
<persia> savvas, Just remember to be more specific in the binary sections.
<savvas> hm..
<persia> hm.. ?
<savvas> hold a sec
<savvas> it's for ccod: http://ccod.sourceforge.net/
<persia> And which packages are you planning?
<savvas> from what I see, it provides/builds ccod (binary) libcsp.so (library) and a header for include/ folder
<savvas> ccod, libcsp and libcsp-dev
<savvas> it's not anything official, just playing arond with my PPA :)
<savvas> *around
<persia> savvas, I'd probably use "devel" as the section for the package, and provide ccod (devel), csp (web), libccodX (libs), and libccod-dev (libdevel).
<persia> Also, why not for the archive, if it's not packaged?
<savvas> I'm afraid I'm not that good with cdbs and making packages yet
<savvas> as it is, I'm patching the ./configure and the Makefile.in to get the job done
<persia> I'd recommend working on it towards the primary archive.  Once you have it in fairly good shape, get some MOTU review.
<mok0> savvas: hmmm
<persia> savvas, Mostly just a social thing: if it's good for you, and you did the work, may as well share so nobody else has to do it.
<savvas> mok0: I know, not a good solution, but I think ccod is not using standard makefile and configure, correct me if I'm wrong
<savvas> persia: now that you mention it, I have a fairly good package of libbusiness-issn-perl: https://launchpad.net/~medigeek/+archive
<mok0> savvas: oh, I don't know what it's using. It's just that patching configure and Makefile.in is not a good way to go
<james_w> should a daemon really be trying to open /dev/null with O_CREAT?
<mok0> savvas: If you must go that way, it's better to patch configure.ac
<mok0> savvas: and Makefile.am
<mok0> james_w: no
<persia> savvas, Well, if you've a good package, get some reviews :)  I'm sure someone will find a couple issues (always happens when I package things), and then it can be part of Ubuntu.
<persia> james_w, Only O_CREAT, or is that one of several flags?
<savvas> mok0: well I see that the debuild sequence of commands actually instructs the make install with DESTDIR= variable that points to the correct debian/tmp/ directory, but it doesn't use that. Also there is no --prefix argument for ./configure
<james_w> O_CREAT | O_APPEND | O_RDWR
<mok0> persia: you said yesterday that you were looking at supercollider-gedit... apparently you didn't finish your review?
<savvas> mok0: any handy links I could read about? :)
<persia> james_w, A defensive programmer will often add O_CREAT when opening things for output to avoid a crash.  This is especially useful for /dev/null because you don't care about the output anyway.  Mind you, without some other flags, it's kinda useless.
<mok0> savvas: ... you mean about ... configure.ac?
<savvas> mok0: yes, and Makefile.am
<mok0> savvas: I'll go look
<persia> mok0, I haven't, but will definitely do so before I leave.
<savvas> persia: great, thanks for the info, but.. where do I apply for review?
<persia> mok0, Also, thanks for clearing some of the old ones.  It's looking less bad.
<mok0> persia: great. AFAICS supercollider itself is in the "update" section
<persia> !revu | savvas
<ubottu> savvas: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<savvas> I see, thanks!
<persia> mok0, Yep.  That's a bug in REVU that I've reported to the REVU hackers, but I want to leave it alone so they can try to fix it.
<savvas> let me bookmark that link :)
<persia> savvas, There are also other ways to get reviews, but that's the most common method.
<mok0> persia: ... because that's the last upload from May still hanging around...
<persia> savvas, General rule of thumb is that two Ubuntu devs should have looked at a package before it gets approved.
<persia> mok0, Wow!  Thanks for chasing the others.
<savvas> now the other question: is it better to aim for a debian package or an ubuntu package?
<mok0> savvas: here's a nice little short one: http://www.developingprogrammers.com/index.php/2006/01/05/autotools-tutorial/
<persia> savvas, Hard to say, but Debian is generally preferred.
<persia> I'm not sure either is "better", but it's always more polite to share.
<mok0> savvas: otherwise look at the GNU documentation for automake and autoconf, it's really good
<slytherin> mok0: if you come across any java packages on revu, let me know.
<mok0> slytherin: will do :-)
<savvas> or do they cross-exchange packages?
<savvas> ok, we'll start from ubuntu going upstream :)
<savvas> *we'll = I will heh
<savvas> thanks mok0, noted
<savvas> let's see if I can tame this puppy
<mok0> savvas: go go go
<savvas> ah one last thing! should the maintainer use gpl for packaging or follow the license of the included code?
 * mok0 is hungry but fridge is empty :-(
<mok0> savvas: just follow the license of whatever you're packaging
<persia> savvas, Well, if you do your packaging completely from scratch, I'd recommend using the same license as upstream (unles it's particularly onerous).
<savvas> hm.. ccod is licensed with MIT license
<persia> savvas, Alternately, if you're copying packaging from another package, you might have to use the licensing for that packaging code.
<savvas> and the package with dh_make suggested gpl in debian/copyright for the packaging
<mok0> savvas: you can use the 3-clause BSD with that I think
<persia> savvas, That gives you a *lot* of flexibility, but it means you'd do better to avoid GPL packaging, as it might lead to questions about the license of patches, and could conceivably cause issues sending stuff upstream.
<savvas> the what? :P
<mok0> savvas: it does that every time :-)
<savvas> ok thank you both
<savvas> so for the ccod packaging I put everything under MIT/X consortium whatever license
<persia> mok0, "BSD" license can only be used by the Regents of the University of California (see /usr/share/common-licenses/BSD).  Please recommend "MIT" or "ISC" as portable licenses with similar intent.
<persia> (there are *many* "BSD-like" licenses, but they aren't properly BSD, and so "BSD" is at best confusing)
<savvas> so.. I'm right? MIT-licensed packaging for MIT-licensed code?
<savvas> bah anyway, that's minor details, let me see if I can actually package it properly :)
<mok0> persia: ok
<savvas> weird, there's no MIT in common-licenses, it's not that common I presume? :)
<persia> savvas, There is no "right".  The recommendation would be to use the same license where you can.  Just check your sources carefully to make sure that you can use that license.
<savvas> I'm really not good with legal documents - I can just promise that I'll try heh..
<slytherin> savvas: nobody is, not even those who make the law. :-P
<savvas> :)
<persia> Trying is the important part.  Licenses are important, but for the most part as long as you check the license for any code you copy, and license any code you write in a way that is compatible with that with which it will integrate, you're fine.  There's lots of sites that list various charts of license compatibility.
<handschuh> I am looking for someone who can take a look at the package uiflite (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uiflite) and maybe be the second advocate
<james_w> mok0: hey, in your collectd merge left it with an unsatisfiable build dependency on libupsclient1-dev, was that intentional?
<mok0> james_w: yes
<stefanlsd> persia: arn't you meant to be in the mountains?
<mok0> james_w: because there's a bug in the current package that makes the build fail
<james_w> ah, ok
<james_w> might be good to note that in the changelog in future :-)
<mok0> james_w: you are right..,. finding the bug link...
<mok0> bug 299489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299489 in nut "[jaunty] /usr/lib/libupsclient1.so is a dangling link" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299489
<persia> stefanlsd, Not yet.  I like to give a few days notice so I can complete the list of things I've compiled to do before I leave.
<mok0> Ah, fix released
<james_w> ah, that one
<mok0> james_w: I am hoping the build will resume once the depends are satisfied
<james_w> it's not really fix released
<mok0> james_w: "a sync has to be requested"
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> don't know where
<mok0> james_w: or a merge?
<james_w> mok0: it looks like it needs a merge
<mok0> Saturday afternoon... everyone is downloading movies for tonight... my network conn has slowed to a crawl
<mok0> james_w: You have a special interest in nut?
<james_w> nope, no idea what it is
<mok0> james_w: it's a UPS client
<mok0> at least part of it is... that is why it is used by collectd I guess
<mok0> james_w: ok, I will merge it and upload
<slytherin> persia: where are you leaving?
<james_w> thanks mok0
<persia> slytherin, That's an interestingly phrased question.  I'll answer "Japan".
<slytherin> persia: going on vacation?
<mok0> UDS?
<persia> slytherin, That is the intent.
<persia> mok0, I'll end up there as part of it.
<slytherin> persia: ok
<james_w> mok0: I would check that something that uses the pkgconfig file from nut will build correctly. The change in -9 doesn't look sufficient to fix all the problems to me.
<mok0> james_w: thanks for the warning
<james_w> mok0: the pkg-config file will tell whatever is building against libupsclient that it should use -L/usr/lib but the libraries will be in /lib
<mok0> james_w: oh? I though he fixed that
<slytherin> persia: so how long will you not be available for sponsoring bugfixes/syncs/merges? :-D
<james_w> mok0: the symlinks will now be correct, but the pkg-config file may now be wrong.
<mok0> james_w: Hmm. The pending package assumes it's going to find the library in /usr/lib.
<mok0> james_w: I am not sure that collectd uses pkgconfig, but I will check.
<persia> slytherin, 2-4 weeks, depending on a wide variety of factors.  I'll have network access by the 3rd or 4th, but don't know how busy I'll be with UDS, and then getting back.
<james_w> it does
<mok0> james_w: I don't see that those libraries belong in /lib
<mok0> They _really_ ougth to go in /usr/lib
<james_w> mok0: that was the Debian maintainers decision, and what led to these issues in the first place
<slytherin> persia: no issues, I will bug geser. :-)
<jpds> Hello all.
<mok0> It may even be policy? Where universe components are supposed to put things?
<azeem> mok0: the binary is in /bin, so the libs should be there as well, no?
<mok0> azeem: hmm
<azeem> we had this discussion before with LaserJock
<azeem> I think he filed the Debian bug
<mok0> azeem: ... and why is the binary in /bin?? It's not an essential system component
<azeem> apparently they think it is
<slytherin> jpds: hi
<azeem> mok0: well, /bin is also for stuff which is needed before /usr is mounted, not sure this is the case here
<persia> Yeah.  Unless it's needed before /usr is mounted, it ought be in /usr.  main/universe doesn't matter for this: it's related to how the package works.
<mok0> azeem, james_w, in my opinion the whole nut package belongs in /usr
<geser> slytherin: bug me? for what? /me checks scrollback
<persia> It's not about being "essential", it's about being part of the early startup cycle.
<persia> mok0, Check the rdepends properly.  Maybe something needs it in /bin & /lib
<mok0> persia: a UPS client is essential before mounting /usr?? Naahh
<persia> mok0, Well, when does it startup?
<mok0> persia: OK, I will take a good look
<persia> If it's started by a udev hook, quite possibly.
<laga> or maybe if it's fscking /usr and losing power.. *shrug*
<persia> laga, Well, that's a use-case for why, but unless it actually could get started before /usr mount, the package doesn't support that use case (which is a different sort of bug).
 * mok0 is hampered by the slow internet... there's a delay on every character typed on my remote system terminal connection :-(
<RainCT> mok0: yeah, I know this :P
<mok0> Hm, well I'll need to make a link from /usr/lib/libupsclient1.so to /lib/libupsclient1.so.0.0.0 otherwise the pending build will not make it.
<mok0> Ah, this slow internet is killing me. I have to move close my laptop, leave my comfy position in the couch and fire up my linux box. *Sigh*
<JonReagan> hey folks... can I keep certain open source libraries that are third party in my project if I keep the licenses and credits available?
<handschuh> JonReagan: in source form?
<JonReagan> yeah.. well, they are .jars
<JonReagan> and I think I may be able to remove some
<handschuh> JonReagan: then the asnwer is no
<JonReagan> but some have been modified from the original source, and others are no longer available
<handschuh> s/asnwer/answer
<JonReagan> dangit.
<JonReagan> well, thanks for letting me know
<handschuh> JonReagan: you should consider making them separate packages
<JonReagan> ah, k
<handschuh> JonReagan: or, if the external libraries are really trivial, include the sourcecode
<handschuh> JonReagan: can you name me the external jars?
<JonReagan> eh... yeah... it will take me just a sec
<JonReagan> most of the jars have to do with ant and other apache services (batik, jakarta, etc.)
<JonReagan> but one in particular
<JonReagan> will be hard to separate
<JonReagan> because apparently the host project for it is dead
<handschuh> whats the name of the project?
<handschuh> (that you want to package)
<JonReagan> openproj
<JonReagan> it's in REVU
<JonReagan> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=openproj
<handschuh> ok I will check the orig.tar.gz
<JonReagan> thanks!
<JonReagan> slytherin posted a comment for some to-do stuff
<JonReagan> some of the things I have already fixed, but I haven't created a new build yet.
<handschuh> where are the jars in the orig.tar.gz?
<JonReagan> they are under... *checks own package*
<handschuh> found them
<handschuh> contrib/lib it was
<JonReagan> yup, that's it
<handschuh> ok the common-* jars are in the repos
<JonReagan> ah, k
<handschuh> junit also
<handschuh> the jasper-folder looks also very good
<handschuh> groovy is the same
<geser> JonReagan: have you checked if some of the jars are already packaged?
<JonReagan> I looked for the JasperReports
<JonReagan> but couldn't find it
<handschuh> geser: we are checking this right now  :-)
<JonReagan> I found a jasperlib or something like that, but I was not sure if it was the same thing
<slytherin> JonReagan: you should find most of the jars packaged already. I couldn't find jasper reports. The only *jasper* package in Ubuntu is related to jpeg image processing
<handschuh> JonReagan: most of the jars are already in the repos
<JonReagan> ah, k
<JonReagan> so, then, I just need to remove the jars, and add them as dependencies?
<handschuh> JonReagan: well basically, yes
<handschuh> JonReagan: but you have to change the build.xml
<JonReagan> there's a little extra work besides that :)
<JonReagan> oh, ok... that's not too bad
<slytherin> handschuh: That may be not be always true
<slytherin> JonReagan: Take a look at build.xml if it has hard coded paths referring those jar files. If not you may not even need to patch build.xml
<JonReagan> yeah, looks like it has hard coded links to the jars
<handschuh> JonReagan: you can easyly check if the jars are in the repos by using http://packages.ubuntu.com/
<JonReagan> thanks! I didn't even know a package search existed
<JonReagan> if the program calls for certain jars to be there, does that mean I need to call for them to be installed before the program configures itself?
<handschuh> you need to add the packages as dependencies
<JonReagan> that will do it?
<JonReagan> sorry... I'm a noob. ;)
<handschuh> also, you probably have to adjust the classpath (some say you don't have to do that, but I always had to do)
<persia> JonReagan, There are four fields in debian/control that are interesting for Java package dependencies.
<persia> Build-Depends: needs to contain all the packages required to run debian/rules clean
<JonReagan> ah
<persia> Build-Depends-Indep: needs to contain all the packages required to build the package, excepting those already in Build-Depends:
<JonReagan> so I need to create a new field for those packages
<persia> Depends: needs to contain all the packages required to install or run the package (excepting Priority: required or above)
<persia> Recommends: needs to contain all the packages that should be installed at the same time (keep this list small: it's essentially Depends, except that if the program doesn't crash without it, Recommends should be used)
<persia> Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep belong in the source stanza
<slytherin> JonReagan: If you go through my comments, they should clear most of your doubts.
<persia> Depends and Recommends belong in the binary stanza
<JonReagan> thanks!
<JonReagan> I understand now... thanks folks!  I've gotta run, but I will give it a shot
<directhex> persia, i don't think you explained the diff between b-d and b-d-i there
<handschuh> JonReagan: you do have to add some additional java-packages before getting your program into the repos
<JonReagan> oh, I do?
<handschuh> JonReagan: there are unfortunatly many java packages missing in the repos
<handschuh> JonReagan: yes :-(  I could not find all your jars in the repositories
<JonReagan> oh
<JonReagan> that means that the program has to include the jars, which is a REVU no-no?
<handschuh> JonReagan: no that means before you can continue working on openproj, you have to make shure that all the jars you want to use are in the repositories
<handschuh> JonReagan: I am also suffering on this
<JonReagan> ah, so I would have to package the .jars then
<handschuh> JonReagan: yes - it might be good to start with a small package first
<JonReagan> k, thanks
<JonReagan> I'll need to talk to the head dev before continuing.  Does revu stay open until feature freeze?
<directhex> it stays open full stop. actually getting a package into a given release version is another matter
<handschuh> JonReagan: no, revu is always open
<JonReagan> oh ok
<LaserJock> morning MOTUers
<mok0> Evening
<LaserJock> mok0: hello! how've you been?
<mok0> LaserJock: oh, busy :-)
<mok0> LaserJock: been doing a bit of ubuntu work lately, though
<LaserJock> mok0: excellent
 * mok0 needs to reboot
<radix> Is there a widely accepted version scheme for prerelease packages? Like, if upstream released 1.0rc1 and I want to package that, what should I call it?
<directhex> radix, generally, if they number it as 1.0rc1, go for 1.0~rc1
<directhex> radix, if they number it as 0.9.9 or something, no problem
<radix> right
<radix> okay
<radix> for some reason I was brainfarting and thinking that ~ could only be in the debian version part, but I guess it can go into the upstream version part too
<Elbrus> up to now I have used pdebuild to test and build my packages, but now I try to build lazarus, but it doesn't work, because it does patching before it goes into the jail.
<Elbrus> It looks like sbuild can handle it beter.
<Elbrus> Can I use the same tar balls I use for pbuilder for sbuild?
<LaserJock> sbuild normally just uses  a chroot I think
<LaserJock> so you could unpack a pbuilder chroot and set sbuild/schroot up to use it
<hyperair> Elbrus: how about good ol debuild -S followed by pbuilder
<Elbrus> hyperair: thanks, I am just looking into possibilities because until now pdebuild worked great for me and felt secure enough...
<Elbrus> I liked the jail, pbuilder doesn't do that, right?
<hyperair> Elbrus: the whole purpose of pbuilder is to jail the build
<RainCT> Can a package show a message with Yes/No buttons after installation?
<LaserJock> Elbrus: I believe pdebuild is just debuild -S + pbuilder
<hyperair> yeah actually i think so too
<Elbrus> aha..
<RainCT> Like the notification that Firefox shows, but asking if you want the application to be restarted automatically
<hyperair> i usually use a combination of a custom pbuilder script and pdebuild. something like pdebuild ==pbuilder ~/bin/pbuilder-<release>
<hyperair> RainCT: take a look into the fast user switch applet package, whichever that is. i remember it popping up some window asking if i wanted to replace my power button with it
<RainCT> uhm.. no postinst file there
<RainCT> hyperair: I can't find anything there, but thanks
<hyperair> hmm strange
<hyperair> well look into debconf then
<RainCT> I don't think debconf would work for what I want to do
<slytherin> RainCT: IIRC, the FF restart dialog is FF magic and not packaging magic.
<slytherin> RainCT: you may want to take look at postinst of some of the servers (apache2, squid), but not sure you will find what you are looking for.
<hyperair> slytherin: how about the fusa magic? how is that done?
<slytherin> hyperair: no idea
<hyperair> hmm
<geser> the FF restart diaglog is a postinst with update-notifier magic
<geser> and the fusa update note comes from gnome-panel.postinst
<et3> I'm having problems publishing my key
<geser> et3: can you be more verbose?
<et3> well, what's the keyserver name?
<jmarsden> et3: CAn be be more specific?  ssh key?  gpg key?  and what problem?
<et3> keyserver.ubuntu.com?
<et3> gpg key
<et3> I'm trying to add a gpg key to launchpad
<geser> keyserver.ubuntu.com is correct
<geser> which error do you get?
<et3> et3@kilo:~$ gpg --send-keys 4E028549 --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com
<et3> gpg: "--keyserver" not a key ID: skipping
<et3> gpg: "keyserver.ubuntu.com" not a key ID: skipping
<et3> gpg: no keyserver known (use option --keyserver)
<et3> gpg: keyserver send failed: bad URI
<nhandler> et3: Use 'gpg --send-keys --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com <KEY-ID>'
<et3> nhandler: thanks
<jmarsden> See https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/ImportingYourPGPKey
<nhandler> You're welcome et3
<nhandler> et3: That is from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto#Uploading%20the%20key%20to%20Ubuntu%20keyserver
<et3> It's sent.
<nhandler> ;)
<et3> I didn't violate it's integrity by announcing it's ID did I?
<nhandler> et3: No you didn't. That is the key id, which is public on LP and the keyserver anyway
<et3> alright, well it's a good think I didn't announce the passphrase: "asdf8322ujhvki"
<et3> (kidding)
<jdong> WHOO, BSOD!
<jdong> boy that was scary, full-screened XP VM bluescreened.
<et3> I tried to use the _actual_ passphrase in seahorse and it said it wasn't the right thing.  so...  I don't know.  Is the gpg key useless.
<et3> jdong: what?  lol
<jmarsden> et3: TRy   date |gpg -sa    and enert the passphrase, if you see otuput surrounded by "BEGIN PGP MESSAGE" and "END PGP MESSAGE" then it is fine.
<jmarsden> s/enert/enter/
<et3> jmarsden: it said I needed a passphrase to unlock it
<jmarsden> Right, the one you used on your gpg key :-)
<et3> damn... maybe I typed it in wrong.
<et3> is that going to be a problem?
<jmarsden> et3: I thought you were wondering if you had the passphrase right and if they key was working...
<nhandler> et3: Without your password, your key is useless. You will need to create a new key
<jmarsden> et3: If you don't know the passphrase, that key is useless, to you or anyone else
<et3> jmarsden: thanks.
 * et3 makes a new one.
<jdong> oh that's REAL nice.
<jdong> chkdsk /F even dies off the installation CD.
<geser> et3: did you already upload the broken key?
<et3> geser: I canceled it
<et3> jdong: ...what did you do?
<geser> good, as you can't delete a key from a keyserver once you uploaded it
<ryanakca> How can one search for packages by maintainer?
<geser> grep-dctrl perhaps
<ryanakca> geser: thanks
<ryanakca> Can a program be under GPLv2 and its packaging under GPLv3?
<LaserJock> ryanakca: is the program GPLv2 only?
<ryanakca> LaserJock: *nod*... so I guess, no?
<LaserJock> ryanakca: I think no
<LaserJock> ryanakca: it's sort of one of those "like anybody cares", but generally I think packaging should just be the same as the program itself, that way you don't run into problems
<ryanakca> LaserJock: *nod*, just curious... I don't mind, really... it's not as if anybody is going to ``TIVOise'' my package.... but thinking about it... the packaging doesn't depend on the program itself, does it? You could distribute the debian/ alone  ... so couldn't it be different?
<ryanakca> Hmm... and he's gone :)
<et3> how long would it take one of you to package a few fonts?
<et3> let me be less specific.  If you wanted to put just one file (like a wallpaper) into a package for your own repository, how would you go about doing that?
<et3> and how long does it take?
<james_w> ryanakca: yeah, you are correct I believe, but what happens to ./debian/patches/ for instance
<ScottK> et3: I'd find a similar package and use that as a basis for the one I wanted.
<ryanakca> james_w: True...
<ryanakca> james_w: easier to just stick it all under the same license
<james_w> definitely
<ScottK> ryanakca: It could be different, but it should be compatible.  It's 99% simpler just to make it the same as the package itself.
<directhex> hm. does anyone know the OOo build process at all?
<ScottK> directhex: I know enough to know that I don't want to know more.  You'll probably have to talk to calc.
<directhex> i seem to have replied to my own question
 * mok0 shrieks at nut package: would NEVER have advocated that piece of crap
<directhex> i *THINK* i've patched this 462 MiB monster for the mono 2.0 transition, but wanted to clarify some thnigs about the build process
<slytherin> directhex: I know two things. 1. It needs about 10GB of disk space to build. 2. It takes hours to build, something like whole night. :-)
<directhex> slytherin, well, when i say "i think" i mean "i can't easily test it until my pbuilder has mono 2, which means a main sponsor needs to upload mono 2"
<slytherin> directhex: hmm, so why is mono 2 stuck? No sponsors?
<directhex> aye. alpha 1 is history now, so that's the next thing to wait for
<directhex> and since it needs to land in NEW due to the changes, that's the NEXT hold-up
<ScottK> directhex: You can use loging and -save-after-login to add locally built packages to your pbuilder.
<ScottK> loging/login
<slytherin> directhex: what scottk suggested. I have used it to evaluate how far I could go in breaking jboss circular build deps.
 * ScottK did it to pre-build all of KDE for a KDE version update.
<ScottK> That takes a long time too.
<et3> so... I actually created a file called "./..'"
<coppro> lies
<et3> coppro: no _youre_ a lie...
<NCommander> The cake is a lie
<et3> ./..' exists
<coppro> of course it does
<et3> coppro: you're just mad because you can't do it.
<coppro> of course I can
<coppro> touch "..'"
<et3> that's cool.
<et3> I'm pretty sure I want a file called that in a package of my own rep
<et3> s/rep/repo
<coppro> all characters except \0 and / are legal in Unix
<coppro> (in filenames)
<coppro> I'm just having trouble believing you'd actually want such an esoteric name
<et3> lol.  I was kidding but I learned something.
<et3> C++0x
<coppro> C++0x is awesome :)
<et3> I've never tried it.  It is a ridiculously 31337 name though
<mok0> ha, the new debian package creates a symlink  /lib -> /libupsclient.so.1.0.0
<mok0>  that's gonna make people real happy... :-P
<mok0> here comes my cat
<et3> mok0: but does it make the symlink:  "/" -> "~/..'... um... 0\\0\\0 \0 ~//~. !?"
<mok0> et3: /lib -> :-(
<et3> lol
<mok0> their build machines will break
<et3> :~(
<mok0> et3: one of the reasons I was cursing that package a while back...
<mok0> Oh well, I'll fix it for Ubuntu and forward a patch...
<et3> alright.
<RainCT> can someone tell me how to mark bugs as duplicates in bugzilla?
<nellery> RainCT: at the bottom of the bug page, there's a section called "bug status change", and you can select to mark it as a duplicate there
<RainCT> nellery: but apparently only if you have permissions to do this :)
<RainCT> nellery: already got someone to mark it as duplicate, but thanks :)
<nellery> RainCT: Ah, alright
<nellery> no problem
<NCommander> RainCT, poke
<savvas> hey, about revu, do we upload as -D UNRELEASED or jaunty?
<nhandler> savvas: jaunty
 * RainCT is poked by NCommander 
<RainCT> savvas: jaunty
<savvas> thanks - in the future, the latest dev release, right?
<RainCT> savvas: yep
<NCommander> RainCT, can we please hide the "Advocate this Upload" button from Contributors
<RainCT> NCommander: it should be
<nhandler> RainCT: It isn't
<RainCT> oh right
<RainCT> missed that one when I changed how permissions work
<RainCT> fixin'..
<savvas> RainCT: E: libbusiness-issn-perl_0.91-1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file jaunty < should I ignore this or add in lintian overrides?
<jpds> Ignore.
<RainCT> savvas: ignore
<NCommander> That's still broken?
<RainCT> savvas: is that an old upload?
<NCommander> Geeze
<RainCT> NCommander: I installed lintian from hardy-backports, not sure how up2date it is
<nhandler> NCommander: I belive collin watson was going to manually update lintian
<RainCT> but remember that the lintian report file isn't update
<RainCT> +d
<NCommander> The jaunty version still has that issue
<RainCT> oh ok
<RainCT> :/
<savvas> RainCT: nope, a shiny new one, libbusiness-issn-perl doesn't exist in neither debian nor ubuntu
<RainCT> yeah I see..   /me thinks that distro names should be announced before so that there's time to let all tools know them :P
<savvas> is there a sudo update-lintian-warnings tool ?:P
<savvas> er.. one last thing, should I add my name as the maintainer or the ubuntu motu?
<savvas> it's still not uploaded, just trying to upload a close-to-perfect package heh
<RainCT> savvas: Maintainer is Ubuntu MOTU Team <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<nhandler> savvas: You should set 'Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>' as the Maintainer
<nhandler> You are the XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<RainCT> savvas: XSBC-Original-Maintainer can be your name
<savvas> I see, cool :)
<RainCT> (not sure if I typed that right, so check it someone else)
<savvas> no it's correct, I have some experience with that from bugs :p
<RainCT> *somewhere
<RainCT> ok :)
<nhandler> RainCT: It is 'Ubuntu MOTU Developers' not 'Ubuntu MOTU Team'
<RainCT> savvas: see? ;)
<savvas> I was talking about the xsbc :)
<savvas> oh well changing
<gouki> Depending on the version present on the changelog, PPA will generate appropriate sources.list, correct? Or will it only allow jaunty now?
<RainCT> gouki: yes, it will
<gouki> RainCT, thank you.
<savvas> one (really) last thing, in case I need to fix something, the current version is 0.91-1.. the new version would be 0.91-2 or something like 0.91-1.1 ?
<savvas> or is that a personal favourite? :p
<RainCT> savvas: on REVU? don't change the version
<savvas> ah so I just do the changes and dput the new stuff again?
<savvas> well.. here goes nothing :)
<RainCT> right
<RainCT> but dput -f or delete the .upload file, else dput will complain
<savvas> thanks, I was used to the PPA way, you know, push a release and upload
<gouki> Any thoughts of why pbuilder is failing with 'Aptitude couldn't satisfy the build dependencies' when all packages are correct?
<savvas> *a version
<RainCT> gouki: is your pbuilder up2date?
<gouki> RainCT, yes :(
<gouki> Oh, I'm getting a warning about libssh2-1-dev being a virtual package. Is that a problem?
<RainCT> maybe
<gouki> RainCT, fixable?
<RainCT> NCommander: (fixed)
<NCommander> yay
<savvas> hm.. three lintian problems: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/libbusiness-issn-perl-0811222254/lintian
<savvas> looks like it's about nmu, but I was told that that is not used in ubuntu
<RainCT> savvas: wrong version number :)
<RainCT> savvas: it should be 0.91-0ubuntu1, not 0.91-1
<RainCT> savvas: and it's XSBC-Original-Maintainer, not Original-Maintainer
<savvas> woops
<RainCT> (if you have this right, then it's also because of the version number too)
<savvas> here we go again :P
<savvas> are you sure it's 0.91-0ubuntu1 ? I'll give it a go
<RainCT> savvas: if upstream's version is 0.91, then yes
<savvas> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<savvas> XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Savvas Radevic <vicedar@gmail.com>
<RainCT> savvas: -0ubuntu1 means Debian Revision 0, Ubuntu REvision 1
<savvas> ah, I see
<RainCT> (ie, not in Debian and for the first time in Ubuntu)
<RainCT> that should be correct
<savvas> cool, thanks for the tip :)
<gouki> Apparently removing that package (libssh2-1-dev) fixed the problem. The problem is that the software looses 30% of its capabilities without it.
<RainCT> gouki: uhm.. doesn't seem like a virtual package to me
<gouki> RainCT, that's the warning I got from pbuilder :S
<RainCT> ah wait
<savvas> now, for the new upload, do I use debuild -S -sd or debuild -S -sa ? Since the orig.tar.gz didn't change, I'm not sure :\
<RainCT> savvas: -sa for now
<serialorder> Hi all, if I am applying a bugfix that involves removing a few troublesome lines from debain/postinst is there a preferred method of doing it? Should I actually remove the lines or comment them out?
<savvas> ok
<jmarsden> gouki: I think that "virtual package" warning can mean "I can't find that package"... so check your pbuilder has all the repositories enabled that you think it has?
<RainCT> serialorder: if they are useless, remove them, if they may be needed in the future comment them out
<RainCT> serialorder: but I don't think there's any rule on this
<gouki> jmarsden, OK. How can I check pbuilders repositories?
<serialorder> RainCT: ok thanks
<RainCT> gouki: pbuilder --login
<RainCT> if you want to modify something add --save-after-login
<gouki> Thanks!
<jmarsden> gouki: Also check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Universe%20support for how to add Universe, and use that as an example for any other repos you need.
<gouki> jmarsden, thank you.
<savvas> RainCT: sorry for bugging you, but how do I purge the older upload?
<RainCT> savvas: why would you want to do this?
<savvas> oh we don't?
<savvas> sorry :P
<RainCT> (and only admins can purge)
<savvas> I'm really new to this, I was suggested to start sharing my packaging :)
<savvas> so now I wait for the package to be approved or argued, heh
<nhandler> savvas: Two MOTUs need to advocate the package for it to enter the New Queue
<savvas> nhandler: thanks, are you familiar with the procedure for inclusion in debian?
<nhandler> savvas: Debian is a little different
<nhandler> I believe you just need one Debian Developer to sponsor the upload for you
<RainCT> but easy! :P
<nhandler> Let me get you a link to the procedure
<savvas> cool
<RainCT> nhandler: yep
<RainCT> savvas: http://mentorns.debian.net
<RainCT> err, http://mentors.debian.net
<RainCT> upload it there and send a message to the mentors ML (you'll find info about this at the webpage)
<nhandler> savvas: Once you upload it to m.d.n, you will want to send a RFS (Request for Sponsor) email to the debian-mentors mailing list
<nhandler> savvas: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-intro
<gouki> Can I have the same software, with different versions on the changelog, uploaded to the PPA? Say for hardy, intrepid and jaunty?
 * RainCT decides to stop talking as nhandler is answering everything anyway ;)
<RainCT> gouki: yep
 * RainCT has already broken his decision :P
<savvas> I guess the only thing that needs to be changed now is jaunty to unstable and perhaps the maintainer fields
<savvas> I'll read on, thanks!
<RainCT> savvas: and the version number, to -1
<savvas> but..
<savvas> argh! :P
<nhandler> RainCT: Do we have a wiki page that talks about some of the things you need to look at when sending an Ubuntu package to Debian?
<savvas> ok, different distros, different policies :)
<RainCT> nhandler: not that I know of, but if you write one I'll give you a hug!
<savvas> you'll have a hug from me too! lol
<nhandler> RainCT: I'm not the best at writing up stuff like that, but I'll try to put something basic together in the next day or so
<nhandler> Any suggestions for the wiki name?
<savvas> DebianTransition ?
<RainCT> nhandler: dunno, but it should be somewhere under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian
<RainCT> Debian/NewPackages perhaps
<savvas> much better
<RainCT> wait, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers already has something
<nhandler> RainCT: I thought about that.I think I'll just add on to the ForUbuntuDevelopers page
<RainCT> expand that if you think there's something missing.. and we should link it from somewhere in MOTU/
<savvas> ForUbuntuMaintainers then? :)
<savvas> or Packagers, heh
<et3> I tried to push my branch onto launchpad using bzr
<et3> I got this error:  Permission denied (publickey).
<RainCT> et3: have you told Launchpad what your SSH key is?
<et3> does bzr not know my public key or what?
<et3> yes... but I'm not using ssh
<et3> should I be?
<savvas> et3: https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+sshkeys
<savvas> (I think)
<et3> savvas: thank you. I'll check it out
<et3> savvas: that's my public key :S
<savvas> et3: you can easily create it with Applications > Accessories > Passwords and Encryption > Key > create > Secure shell key
<et3> It's already made
<savvas> et3: do you have a key listed in Passwords and Encryption keys with a small key and a terminal icon next to it?
<et3> yes
<et3> and I sent launchpad the key
<et3> that you found actually
<savvas> did you change the username/domain?
<et3> you can't ssh into my computer using that key can you?
<et3> savvas: on what?>
<savvas> et3: (keep your info private) look at the name on Passwords and Encryption keys for that key, compare it with the output of: echo `whoami`@`hostname`
<nhandler> RainCT: I added a few bullet points to the wiki page. I have to run out now, but I'll finish cleaning it up later.
<et3> okay so they both say rickrollVirus@yourComputer
<et3> (kidding)
<savvas> lol
<savvas> et3: what's your branch by the way?
<et3> im experimenting with packaging
<et3> https://code.launchpad.net/codeshift-wallpapers
<et3> I just started a few hours ago
<et3> I haven't uploaded anything yet
<savvas> et3: have you read http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/mini-tutorial/index.html ?
<et3> yes
<et3> only instead of saying "2 Revisions pushed" it says "do it yourself" or something like that
<et3> so... do I need to tell bzr about my public key or something?
<savvas> um, I would try to readd my ssh
<et3> are you implying I need to ssh somewhere?
<savvas> no no
<savvas> wait
<savvas> https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+editsshkeys
<et3> I uploaded my ssh key
<savvas> I know, try removing it and reuploading it
<savvas> et3: in the meantime, try: bzr launchpad-login
<savvas> see if it shows your launchpad username
<et3> it replied correctly
<savvas> try pushing again
<et3> isn't it infinately intelligent to have remembered my ID? ^^  ahhh... technology is amazing.
<et3> alright
<savvas> bzr push lp:~codeshiftster/codeshift-wallpapers/main
<savvas> It ought to ask you to verify your key now
<savvas> or authorize its usage
<et3> I deleted it
<et3> I need to put it back
<savvas> go go go :)
<et3> that's not fair
<et3> it still denies me
<et3> what am I doing wrong?
<savvas> do you have a shotgun handy? :)
<savvas> just kidding :p
<et3> lol... noo....
<et3> import shotgun;
<et3> why do you axe me that?
<savvas> heh, nothing
<savvas> I really have no idea, try making a new key or something
<savvas> https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/CreatingAnSSHKeyPair
<et3> alright
<et3> maybe its because it was dsa and not rsa
<savvas> well I have rsa
<savvas> the dsa should be in ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub
<savvas> try with rsa, if it works, then I sense a bug
<savvas> by the way, the correct channel is #launchpad :)
<et3> alright
<et3> right... I should have thought of that
<et3> I just thought it was a MOTU thing
<et3> I need to go eat
<et3> thanks
<savvas> et3: actually, more like #ubuntu-devel and #launchpad instead of motu, but I'm really not that sure
<RainCT> omg.. reportbug is telling me about 2575 bugs with a similar description to that one of an ITP I'm filling and wants me to confirm that they aren't the same showing them in groups of 5 -.-
 * RainCT hates whoever wrote that :P
 * directhex makes it groups of 7, for RainCT's benefit
<RainCT> directhex: wow, that makes a big difference :P
<directhex> RainCT, 40% more efficient!
<RainCT> that's an argument :P
<directhex> RainCT, if you told a corp "wanna be 40% more efficient", you think they'd say "bugger off"? no!
<RainCT> directhex: but it's still 367 times of writing n and pressing enter :(
<serialorder> can someone tell me what the difference between  a sync and a merge is, I am a bit confused on that point
<RainCT> serialorder: a sync is just copying the package over from Debian and rebuilding it
<RainCT> serialorder: a merge is done when a package was modified in Ubuntu and consists in taking the new version from Debian and applying those changes from the Ubuntu version that are still relevant to it
<serialorder> then if I grab a package in MoM and all of the ubuntu changes have been included upstream
<serialorder> mom will automatically name that package-verubuntu1
<serialorder> should I rename that to just package-ver
<RainCT> serialorder: you should request a sync then
<serialorder> it already has a sync request
<serialorder> does that mean I should not grab from MoM then but from the debian repository?
<RainCT> serialorder: if it already has a sync request, just wait for the archive admins to do the sync
<serialorder> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-23
<handschuh> is someone there to give my package a final review? (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uiflite)
<smooth> hello motu community
<smooth> i was having issues with a package im trying to upgrade...
<jmarsden> smooth: Be more specific, just ask your question?
<smooth> sorry...im watching the tech OU game...
<smooth> after I run  debuild -S -sa
<smooth> i get this error: debuild: fatal error at line 1329:
<smooth> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc -S -sa failed
<jmarsden> The next few lines probably say why... can you pastebin all the output from debuild so we can see it?
<smooth> sorry how do i do that?
<jmarsden> open a browser to http://paste.ubuntu.com and copy and paste your output there
<jmarsden> Then you can give us the link to that web page you just generated.
<smooth> http://paste.ubuntu.com/75824/
<Elbrus> smooth: did you change the png files?
<smooth> no i didn't change anything, i was just trying to apply the new upstream version to the ubuntu package...
<Elbrus> smooth: remove them from your source file and you should be fine
<Elbrus> (with respect to this error)
<smooth> ok
<Elbrus> s/file/tree
<Elbrus> you leave them in the upstream tar-ball of course
<jmarsden> smooth: You're doing an example from one of the packaging guides, right?  So it's odd you'd run into this sort of thing -- did you get the old and new brasero files from exactly where the guied said to get them?
<smooth> yeah, i downloaded them straight from the links...its weird...
<smooth> i think im just going to start over from the beginning and see if it happens again
<jmarsden> OK.  Maybe the guide needs fixup for Intrepid or something??
<smooth> yeah...thats what i was thinking, it may be an intrepid issue
<smooth> or user error...lol
<jmarsden> If your second go-around still fails in the same way, speak up and I'll see what happens when I try it here.
<smooth> cool, i appreciate it
<smooth> yup same thing
<Elbrus> for bug 275688 I am looking into the text on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
<Elbrus> I guess it should be mentioned that licensing issues also warrant a SRU?
<Elbrus> and because the source is re-engineered, it means all releases need updating to the latest version...
<smooth> jmarsden I had the same issue
 * Hobbsee thought that had an outstanding removal request
<Hobbsee> jmarsden: the images probably changed.
<Elbrus> Hobbsee: ?
<Hobbsee> Elbrus: non-free data in the existing vesrion?  I thought it had a removal request, along with some others.
<Elbrus> that means that fpc is going to be removed from the old archives? How can I see that?
<Elbrus> Then I am not going to investigate the sru ofcourse..
<Hobbsee> it was supposed to be, iirc.  it never was.
<Hobbsee> they can't remove packages belatedly.
<anakron> HI all
<Elbrus> The latest version is free
<Elbrus> So I thought that it would be a SRU matter...
<Hobbsee> yes, it would be, then.
<smooth> jmarsden: i had the same error
<jmarsden> smooth: OK, I'm playing with it to see what happened...
<jmarsden> smooth: Yes, the png files really are different between the two tarballs.  So all the warnins about that are not your fault.
<smooth> jmarsden: I also get these two lines at the end... debuild: fatal error at line 1329:
<smooth> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc -S -sa failed
<smooth> jmarsden: shouldn't there be a space between -r and fakeroot?
<jmarsden> smooth: I just did it (with no errors) with the commands at http://paste.ubuntu.com/75830/
<jmarsden> smooth: On my (Intrepid) machine here the process went as shown at http://paste.ubuntu.com/75831/ -- looks good to me.
<smooth> jmarsden: got it...could it be because i notice that i needed to change the version in dch -i?
<smooth> i didn't notice
<smooth> *
<jmarsden> Could be.  In packaging, every little detail matters :-)
 * jmarsden needs to go eat...
<smooth> jmarsden: thanks for helping me out
<jmarsden> smooth: no problem, welcome to the world of Ubuntu packaging :-)
<anakron> Hi
<anakron> how i can determine the right patch system to a bug?
<nellery> anakron: do you mean for a package?
<anakron> yeah
<anakron> i want to start helping in a upper level
<anakron> so ill try to get the right patch for a bug
<anakron> testing it and making a "patched version"
<nellery> anakron: ubuntu-dev-tools has a what-patch script that spits out the patch system in use
<Hobbsee> you can usually look at debian/control to find it out, too
<Hobbsee> and debian/rules
<anakron> hi
<Awsoonn> I seem to have messed up my packageing script and am unable to uninstall my package with dpkg --remove, is there a way to manually flush it out of the database?
<jdong> how badly is it not uninstalling?
<jdong> failing a postrm/prerm script? worse?
<Awsoonn> postrm script fails
<jdong> Awsoonn: the script is at /var/lib/dpkg/info/your_package_name.postrm
<jdong> add exit 0 to the top of the script
<persia> Or delete it, or fix the issue.
<Awsoonn> that seems easy enough, cool beans
<persia> In fact, you've an excellent test case now to chase the postrm bug, and when you get a fix, you could apply it to the packaging so this doesn't happen again.
<Awsoonn> yes indeed
<Awsoonn> that was perfect, thanks guys!
<Awsoonn> dmsuperman: for the futre, there is a script at /var/lib/dpkg/info/package_name.postrm that I added 'exit 0' to teh very top of and was able to force it to remove form dpkg
<Awsoonn> wrong window... obviously. :)
<persia> heh.  Also, that's not usually the ultimate solution to the problem, as some of postrm probably works
<stefanlsd> Laney: you around?
<AnAnt> superm1: Hello
<AnAnt> superm1: regarding sl-modem, isn't it already pulling the kernel headers as I've seen in the log you sent me ?
<slytherin> geser: persia: any of you around (and not busy) for few merges?
<guille_> hi
<guille_> i've downloaded a package with apt-get source, (actually mysql-server), added an storage engine. and i would like to package it before installing (to have it controlled by the package-manager)
<guille_> how can i package it?
<leleobhz> dpkg-buildpackage
<leleobhz> but you will need to change debian/rules at least
<guille_> which file is it? i've tried to man the debian/rules but instead of showing the man page it shows me the perl source
<mok0> Please remind me the name of the program that read debian/control and install the build-depends.... I have a hangover
<sebner> mok0: apt-get buildep ?
<Hobbsee> apt-get build-dep package, afaik.
 * sebner ^5 Hobbsee =)
<Hobbsee> :)
<mok0> ... That's not it, because I am manually building using debuild
<StevenK> dpkg-checkbuilddeps
<StevenK> Will show you what you're missing
<mok0> StevenK: so it does!
<sebner> Hobbsee: we loose xD
<mok0> Hehe
<StevenK> apt-get build-dep will only work if the package is in Sources and hasn't changed since
<Hobbsee> sebner: well...my general theory is that the package is usually in the repositories, apart from whatever changes you have made.  Which means you should probably remember, or easily be able to find out, your changes.
<Hobbsee> so, it's close enough, most of the time
<Hobbsee> short of that...pbuilder.
<sebner> heh
<persia> the get-build-deps script might be a handy tool when apt-get build-dep isn't right.
<sebner> persia: still in town? =)
<persia> sebner, Yep.  Another 12 hours or so
<sebner> persia: cool :)
<Xan3> i have a problem with virtualbox in jaunty, befor open a bug i want are sure that are bug and no my error
<Xan3> anyone can listen me?
<persia> Xan3, For tracking down a bug, you'd do better in #ubuntu-bugs
<Xan3> also for ubuntu beta?
<Xan3> i have the problem whith jaunty
<Xan3> with
<persia> For bug discussions.  If it's support you need, that's harder to find for jaunty now.
<Xan3> i dont know if i need support or there is a bug in virtualbox in jaunty
<persia> Right.  Someone in #ubuntu-bugs may be able to help you make that decision.
<Xan3> ok
<Xan3> thz
<mok0> Hm. It'd be nice if the debhelper manpages told you what version of debhelper it appeared in.
<mok0> was that understandable??
<persia> Yes.  Really, the only way to know is to read the changelog.
<anakron> HI all
<anakron> if i want to become a motu, what i must do
<laga> anakron: you need to become an ubuntu universe contributor first
<laga> and then go from there
<geser> grep-dctrl perhaps
<laga> anakron: please, no private message
<laga> let me get you that message
<laga> err, wiki page
<anakron> :O
<anakron> ok
<anakron> jeje
<laga> anakron: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<anakron> thanks a lot
<anakron> have you seen dholbach around here?
<RainCT> anakron: it easier to find him Mo-Fr
<RainCT> *it's
<anakron> Mo-Fr?
<anakron> sorry i dont understand
<RainCT> anakron: Monday to Friday, he has weekend now
<anakron> a ok
<anakron> thanks a lot
 * persia notes that it's not required to be an ubuntu universe contributor before becoming MOTU, but that's it is often a step taken along the way.
<persia> anakron, Also, MOTU should not be a goal: contribute as you like.  If your contributions indicate you should be MOTU, you will likely become MOTU.
<anakron> hello emmet
<persia> anakron, It's also worth noting that it's one of the values of Ubuntu that we do things on a team basis: it's rarely useful to seek out an individual, unless you're sure they are the only person who has the knowledge you seek.
<anakron> nono
<anakron> actually no
<anakron> i want to help with package maintenence
<persia> Oh, did you get anywhere with the bug I gave you before?
<anakron> persia
<anakron> i was sleeping
<anakron> XD here its 12:12
<persia> Sleeping is never a problem :)
<anakron> XD
<persia> On the other hand, you'd do best to find things about package maintenance that interest you, or ask people for help in getting strategies to find bugs you can fix.
<anakron> that could be a way to solve my problem
<persia> Helping with package maintenance is very much appreciated.  If you have questions about something you are doing, ask them here.
<anakron> ok
<anakron> ill read wiki in ubuntu motu section cause i want to help in package maintenance
<anakron> :) see you later, i hope ill got some good results
<persia> If you like.  There's a *lot* of information in the wiki.
<anakron> and thanks for all your time
<persia> You'd really do better to pick a bug, try to fix it, and ask here when you get stuck.
<persia> People might point you at wiki pages, but at least you'd be pointed at useful things you could apply right away.
<anakron> i think that, like a translation training, i could translate that wiki into spanish
<anakron> it will be helpful for people that want to help, but dont know lots of english words if they want to read wikis
<anakron> some people get stucked only cause they dont know how to read/talk english
<anakron> ill try to do it
<slytherin> NCommander: there?
<RainCT> anakron: I think there's already some translation effort for Spanish (not sure though)
 * RainCT asks effie_jayx 
<slytherin> NCommander: are you aware of any kernel panics related to any combination of b43, rfkill_input and rfkill? I have unloaded the modules and my ibook does not have freeze problems for last 3 hours.
<anakron> ok
<anakron> rainct
<anakron> RainCT
<anakron> but a finished  translation?
<anakron> cause some of those projects are not finished
<RainCT> anakron: no, I don't think it's finished. but you should look what's done so that you don't repeat the same :)
<anakron> :)  thats right
<anakron> so, where i can find it?
<RainCT> anakron: http://doc.ubuntu-es.org/TraducciÃ³n  seems like it's only the Packaging Guide
<anakron> its more than i expected
<anakron> thanks a lot
<bmm> I've got an upstream make install that installs the info file and manpage by itself. It seems impossible to disable this using the configure script and the install-info fails during the build (because the build system install-info is different from the GNU autotools version??). What should I do/
<bmm> ?
<persia> bmm, Build log?
<bmm> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19844176/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.lzip_1.1-0ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<bmm> persia: look for the "too many arguments" with install-info
<bmm> There the upstream install does an install-info which fails because the build system install-info is different from the install-info it expects.
<persia> Well, sounds like you've two options.  Either patch the build system to not generate the error, or use dh_installinfo to work around the issue.
<bmm> persia: I use dh_installinfo, but it seems I need to patch the configure to get it not to include the install-info in it's generated make install
<persia> Personally, I'd do both, as you don't generally want to run install-info at build time at all (as the info db on the buildd isn't really the target).
<persia> Yep.  You'd have some stuff to comment out.
<bmm> persia: ok, so make sure that configure doesn't do the info page and then use dh_install (which will trigger the right db rebuilds etc)
<persia> While it's nice that upstream is installing the documentation cleanly, install-info just doesn't do anything useful on a buildd, and the result of having run it usually doesn't achieve the desired result for the end-user in this sort of system.
<persia> Not dh_install.  dh_installinfo.
<persia> It's important, because it changes the postinst.
<bmm> persia: yeah, meant that one, sorry :D
<bmm> persia: I'm actually using CDBS and only use it through defining a debian/lzip.info file.
<persia> Even easier then :)
<bmm> persia: is quilt or something else better to use in combination with CDBS? (or doesn't it matter?)
<slytherin> persia: do you have some time for sponsorship?
<persia> slytherin, I doubt it, unless it's *really* easy.  Which bug?
<persia> bmm, Doesn't really matter: CDBS has rules to handle various things.  If there's not already a patch system in place for a CDBS package, I usually use simple-patchsys.
<persia> (note that you *do* have to include the CDBS rules for whichever patch system you use)
<bmm> persia: thanks!
<slytherin> persia: bug #301224 and bug #300540. The lucene2 may not fall under definition of easy. It takes lot of time to build.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301224 in jabref "Please merge jabref 2.3.1-6 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (contrib)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301224
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300540 in lucene2 "Please merge lucene2_2.4.0+ds1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300540
<bmm> persia: cdbs-edit-patch seems the easiest, so simple-patchsys it is :) Thanks
<stefanlsd> james_w: around?
<james_w> hi stefanlsd
<persia> slytherin, Both of those fall under "too hard", unfortunately.  I'm fairly certain that you've done jabref correctly, but it's a bit of checking, etc.
<anakron> i found (with RainCT as guide) a bug that i can fix
<stefanlsd> james_w: hi! since we're both working on ubuntu stuff on a sunday, doing the wordpress merge with the new patch. I would also like to include the CVE that we marked as wont fix. We didnt want to do it for Intrepid as it was a bit of an SRU thing, but I think we should include it for Jaunty and to maintain sync with debian.  bug #269301
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269301 in wordpress "[CVE-2008-3747] - wordpress before 2.6.1 ssl problem might allow remote attackers to gain administrative access by sniffing the network for a cookie" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269301
<james_w> stefanlsd: go for it
<stefanlsd> james_w: k. cool.
<anakron> is an amarok bug :)
<slytherin> persia: ok, no issues.
<bmm> Request for comments :) Anybody willing to comment on my newly patched package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lzip
<persia> bmm, How is lzip different/better than the other several LZMA implementations already present?
<persia> bmm, Also, when there is more permissive licensing for some files, it's polite to list them in debian/copyright to notify users of this, and extend them the more permissive rights.
<bmm> persia: I actually started packaging this because it seemed like a simple CDBS try-out package. But it seems the author is pretty against LZMA because of their file format. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lzip-bug/2008-11/msg00012.html
<bmm> persia, I'll add a mention of more permissive rights to the copyright...
<G__81> whats the channel for ubuntu infrastructure ?
<persia> bmm, Hrm.  While I can see the point, I think I become more worried by having multiple lzma compression tools with *incompatible* on-disk formats.  Maybe I'm just conservative.
<persia> G__81, Depends what you mean.  Which part do you seek to ask about?
<G__81> like the people who maintain and develop the ubuntu tools
<G__81> and also maintain the ubuntu servers
<persia> G__81, There's no set for that.
<persia> The tools are primarily maintained by all Ubuntu developers.
<persia> And while there is certain commonality in server maintenance, it's rare that there is a question for which a broad answer is both correct and able to be answered.
<gouki> Do I need the ${shlibs:Depends} and ${misc:Depends} under Depends?
<bmm> persia, I know, I had the same thoughts, but decided that as OS is also about the freedom to choose it would be a good addition: It's not like there is only one md5sum implementation in the repositories ;)
<bmm> gouki: probably, they contain the library dependencies of your generated binary, they are created automatically so it's good to have them there. Is there any reason to remove them?
<gouki> bmm, no, not at all. Just wanted to know if they were required.
<gouki> Thank you.
<persia> bmm, Oh, I agree about choice: on the other hand all the different md5sum implementations in the repos produce the same results.
<persia> gouki, If you're not compiling, you don't need ${shlibs:Depends}, and if you aren't using debhelper (note that CDBS depends on debhelper), you don't need ${misc:Depends}
<gouki> persia, OK. Thank you.
<bmm> persia: haha, yeah that is true. I'll do a new upload in a few minutes. Would you be willing to post your comments on REVU so other people can see? (and comment on it at a later date)
<persia> bmm, I don't have time for a proper review.  The philosophical thing is a debate topic.  The licensing change is just being polite (and you're likely to fix it).
<bmm> persia, already fixed it. Thanks for your help, I'll see if I can get a full review some other day.
<ryanakca> Hmm... I tend to upload new packages to Debian, and then get them synced into Ubuntu, so that both *Ubuntu and Debian benifit from it... would that count towards becomming a MOTU? Or is it only Universe specific contributions that count?
<sebner> ryanakca: I'd say you are collecting bonus points
<ryanakca> sebner: *nod*, thanks
<persia> ryanakca, It definitely counts for technical review (with, as mentioned, bonus points), but doesn't tend to count as much for community integration.
<sebner> persia: You are making me nervous. I always think you already left without sending your reviews/votes to the MC   ^^
<persia> sebner, No reason to be nervous.  I've left instructions about what is to be done if that happens
<persia> Having a browser such that 1) upstream cares enough to make sure that I can upgrade between releases, and 2) doesn't crash every few minutes would help of course.
<sebner> persia: sure but not funny if all the work you've done is useless
<persia> ryanakca, In your case, you've already got the community integration bit covered, so it's all in your favour.
<persia> sebner, It's never useless.
<sebner> persia: well, if it's public ...
<effie_jayx> RainCT, for?
<ryanakca> persia: I do? I've helped out with Kubuntu stuff... and done some merges... but I haven't done a lot to integrate myself into the MOTU yet...
<effie_jayx> RainCT, caught up, shall keep and eye for mor translations.
<persia> ryanakca, Well, you've been around a bit.  You'll want to get some people to endorse your application, but since you're already an Ubuntu Member, there tends to be slightly less scrutiny on that side.
<ryanakca> persia: splendid, thanks :)
<slytherin> persia: my ibook is not freezing anymore. The root cause is one of the modules b43, rfkill and rfkill_input. I hope I can figure out and solve the problem. Of course not freezing means that I can now check state of openjdk on powerpc. :-)
<persia> slytherin, Cool!
<anakron> hi all
<anakron> one question
<anakron> im fixing a bug, an easy one
<anakron> that makes isomaster add two entries into menu
<anakron> i solved it editing isomaster.desktop in sourcefile
<anakron> but how i can add it into changelog.dch
<persia> dch -i
<persia> then add a comment explaining what you did, with the bug number
<anakron> i add, "*Fix isomaster.desktop, cause it adds two entries in menu"
<persia> Well, I'd say "Change .desktop file to only show once in the menu (LP: #nnnnnn)"
<anakron> yes
<RainCT> uhm.. what is the /usr/share/app-install/desktop/ directory for?
<persia> RainCT, To provide .desktop files from app-install-data, to support software installation by icon.
<RainCT> persia: That's what I thought, thanks :)
<ryanakca> persia: Hmm... I don't think you've sponsored any of my packages yet, but continuing the discussion earlier, I was reading w.k.o/UbuntuDevelopers ... D'you think I'd be able to apply to universe-contributors as I stand, or should I do a few more merges?
<ryanakca> My slight problem is that I haven't had a single sponsor, but rather whoever was available / interested in sponsoring <x> package
<persia> ryanakca, There's absolutely no benefit for you to apply as a universe contributor, unless you just want an extra emblem on your LP page.
<persia> You're already an Ubuntu Member.
<Laibsch> james_w: do the latest two debdiffs for hardy and intrepid from bug 227547 look OK to you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227547 in wordpress "ubuntu wordpress should suppress the "please update" warning" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227547
<Laibsch> Maybe somebody feels inclined to do that SRU for above bug?
<directhex> hm. when's UDS coming back to oxford? i could go during my lunch break! 8D
<james_w> Laibsch: hi, the hardy one needs a different version number
<james_w> it needs a version number less than anything that will be in Intrepid or later
<ryanakca> persia: ah, splendid, ok. Mind if I update the page? I was under the impression that to become a MOTU, one had to become a universe contributor first
<Laibsch> 2.3.3-1ubuntu1~hardy1 OK?
<james_w> Laibsch: well, sorry, no. We have a convention for version numbers
<Laibsch> 2.3.3-1ubuntu2~hardy1 OK?
<Laibsch> Where can I read about that?
<Laibsch> Those version numbers are a real killer
<james_w> and the convention for an SRU is to not use ubuntu2
<persia> ryanakca, Which page?
<james_w> Laibsch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures has a guide
<ryanakca> persia: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuDevelopers
<james_w> Laibsch: that's something I can do when sponsoring though
<james_w> Laibsch: your intrepid one has the dpatch, plus the change applied in the .diff.gz as well by the look of it
<Laibsch> Well, I didn't understand how that happened
<persia> ryanakca, Which part would you change, and how?
<Laibsch> do you?
<james_w> Laibsch: does hardy not use a patch system?
<Laibsch> you mean hardy-hardy or wordpress-hardy?
<persia> What.  That top part is almost entirely wrong in several annoying ways.
<james_w> Laibsch: I'm not sure how it happened, but you have edited the files in the upacked source package, if you undo the change in the unpacked source package, just leaving the dpatch, and rebuild it should work out.
<james_w> Laibsch: sorry, wordpress in hardy.
<Laibsch> OK, I'll prepare some more debdiffs and publish them for your inspection first
<Laibsch> to avoid clutter in the bug report
<ryanakca> persia: Under the Ubuntu Contributing Developers header, I'd append a point stating that ``You are not required to become an Ubuntu Contributing Developer if you are already an Ubuntu Member''
<james_w> Laibsch: I'm just going for dinner, I'll see about sponsoring whatever you have when I return.
<Laibsch> james_w: Cool
<Laibsch> james_w: hardy does not yet have a patch system
<persia> ryanakca, You're not required to become any of them though.  You could go straight to core-dev.
<Laibsch> I'll continue to patch the source and use diff.gz instead of a separate patch as in the case of intrepid
<persia> (this is exceedingly rare, and would require a very specific and individual sort of candidate who just completely failed to apply for anything else for an extended period of time)
<ryanakca> persia: ah, ok. I see, Thanks.
<stefanlsd> Laibsch: if it uses dpatch - i'd really recommend using dpatch-edit-patch
<Laibsch> I think you are mistaken
<Laibsch> We are talking about the 2.3.3 wordpress package in hardy
<anakron> persia, i create my first .debdiff file :)
<persia> ryanakca, Is that less confusing?
<stefanlsd> Can anyone please explain to me why in our debdiff's between debian and ubuntu the .po files differ? (must be some automated process that does something different)
<ryanakca> persia: Yep, thanks :)
<persia> ryanakca, I hadn't read that page carefully in a while, and it seemed to have grown several parts that were mostly wrong.  Thanks for pointing it out.
<ryanakca> If upstream states that the program can be distributed under GPL version 2 (only), do I have to state in my debian/copyright file that it can be distributed only under version 2? Or can I just say it that it can be distributed under GPL version 2?
<persia> Oughtn't really matter, just be careful not to state "version 2 or greater".
<ryanakca> ok.
<chillywilly> hi
<Laibsch> james_w: http://oss.leggewie.org/wip/wordpress_hardy.debdiff
<guille_> have you been able to sucessfully package mysql + SphinxSE?
<guille_> this is a nightmare
<serialorder> sometimes when retrieving a package with grab-merge it will end with ""It looks like this package is maintained in revision control. "You almost certainly don't want to continue without investigating."
<serialorder> what should one 'investigate' with those packages?
<persia> serialorder, Look in the Vcs-* headers, and check the current contents of the VCS.
<serialorder> persia: would you mind elaborating a little bit?
<persia> serialorder, Look in debian/control for the Vcs-* headers.
<persia> Use those to find the VCS.
<persia> Check the Vcs for both Debian and Ubuntu.
<persia> If there's a VCS for Ubuntu, you want to commit there, rather than just doing a sourceful upload and moving on.
<serialorder> so if debian/control only lists a VCS for debian then does that mean there is not one for ubuntu or is there some standard place i should go check that might not be listed?
<persia> Well, you want to check both the Debian and Ubuntu versions.  If they are the same, you probably want to switch to XBCS-Original-Vcs-* during the merge.
<serialorder> ok im pretty sure there is only a debian version, so went there and looked at the log and the latest entry in debian/changelog is not in the VCS log
<serialorder> im guessing that means i should not bother merging at this point?
<persia> Well, it should only show up on MoM or DaD if there is a merge planned.
<persia> And if the latest version isn't in the VCS, something has already gone terribly wrong.
<ryanakca> Why do some packages have x.y.z-1build1 instead of x.y.z-1ubuntu1 ?
<persia> ryanakca, No real patch, just a fresh upload to cause a fresh rebuild.
<ryanakca> persia: ah... why would you want to rebuild it without changing anything?
<serialorder> yeah the VCS log is definitely one entry behind ./debian/changelog
<persia> ryanakca, Say you had a library that changed ABI, but didn't change API, and you wanted to use the new ABI.
<serialorder> package is clisp
<serialorder> im just going to ignore it =)
<serialorder> move on to another package
<ryanakca> persia: ah, ok, thanks :)
<directhex> does XbuildY get synced automatically still?
<persia> directhex, Should.
<persia> Anyway: no more IRC for me.  Have fun.
<james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates doesn't say where in the process the motu-sru ack comes. Does anybody know?
<james_w> Laibsch: hardy looks good, thanks. Do you have Intrepid?
<james_w> Laibsch: if not I can easily make the changes
<ScottK> james_w: Usually before upload, but not always.
<james_w> should that be on the wiki page?
<ryanakca> When merging from Debian, should one update the standards version?
<james_w> ryanakca: there's not much point
<james_w> I consider it a waste of time
<ryanakca> james_w: *nod*, and, will the lintian / etc packages get backported to Intrepid so that we don't get ``bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file jaunty'' & company?
<james_w> I believe that lintian is in -backports
<ScottK> Actually we need to backport again.
<ScottK> for lintian.
<ScottK> ryanakca: One should not update the standards version according to Ubuntu Policy.
<ryanakca> ScottK: thanks
 * ryanakca now sees the use of a README.source
<savvas> does anyone know what's the deal with frostwire packaging?
<savvas> something about libraries not being arch specific?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-16
<maxb> Given 2.4 hasn't been removed from lucid yet, I was assuming 2.5 was not yet in jeopardy
<ajmitch> I expect it'll be dropped to universe at least
<ajmitch> installing python-all-dev doesn't grab python2.5-dev now, I believe
<ajmitch> which bit me when trying to build something
<maxb> Yup
<ajmitch> the intent has been to only have 2.6 supported, which doesn't exclude having 2.5 in universe
<maxb> Given Launchpad has had to maintain a PPA re-adding Python 2.4 support to jaunty/karmic packages, a PPA re-adding Python 2.5 support to lucid packages doesn't seem implausible as a stopgap measure
<ajmitch> it does get a little annoying for 3rd parties like LP
<maxb> I think it's good. Given how non-trivial 2.4->2.5 turned out to be, I dread to think what a pain a direct 2.4->2.6 upgrade would be like on a large codebase
 * ajmitch is glad that the latest release of zope 2 supports python 2.6
<maxb> Although I'm not a fan of Ubuntu's forced progress in all areas. Retrospectively, I think hal is being abandoned too soon
<maxb> devkit-power just isn't there yet
<ScottK> Most of the work for Python 2.6 in Debian is done.
<maxb> Ah? What keeps them from switching default python right now?
<ajmitch> ScottK: I've seen that, and it's good to see
<ScottK> maxb: Maintainer won't upload it to unstable.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, u here at UDS already?
<maxb> Does the maintainer have a reasonable rationale for that?
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Still in the air.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, cool... I had not internet while flying :(
<EzraR> there is no harm droping a depend on gnome volume manager right?
<ScottK> EzraR: Why do you say that?
<EzraR> ScottK: I am going to drop it from a package to fix a bug report
<ScottK> EzraR: What bug?
<EzraR> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brdesktop-flavours/+bug/412643
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 412643 in brdesktop-flavours "Should not depend on, recommend or suggest gnome-volume-manager" [Wishlist,In progress]
<EzraR> this package doesnt actually install anything, its just a list of recommends
<EzraR> so really i would be droping it from the recommends not depends
<ScottK> EzraR: Seems reasonable.
<nigel_nb> hi, i'm looking for a little help about man pages
<nigel_nb> can someone help me figure out how they are made?
<micahg> nigel_nb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles#Man%20Pages
<Laney> good morning
<slytherin> Laney: good morning
<directhex> it's a Laney! and a slytherin!
<Laney> rawr
<LucidFox> Evolution must be the most un-GNOME-like application shipped by default in Ubuntu.
<slytherin> is auto import of sources from Debian stopped currently?
<LucidFox> It feels like a KDE application that uses GTK for some reason.
<Laney> slytherin: It's only semi-automatic - guess the required bodies are at UDS
<Laney> my manual syncs from early last week still haven't been done either
<slytherin> Laney: I know it is semi automatic but I was expecting that it should have been run at least once since lucid opened for development.
<Laney> there were problems with the code crashing on v3 source packages
<slytherin> hmm
<directhex> i also have noticed a lack of syncitude
<directhex> i blame bears
<slytherin> LucidFox: Evolution is one of the most unstable software I have ever used. The only reason it is in default install is probably because of exchange support. Ironically even that is not stable.
<LucidFox> Sad thing is, most email clients seem to focus on being yet another Outlook/Outlook Express clone instead of usability.
<LucidFox> Thunderbird is the least cluttered one I've seen.
<LucidFox> And even it is quite heavy.
<slytherin> I hope anjal can replace evolution soon.
<LucidFox> Hmm, never heard of it, let's give it a try
<LucidFox> Ugh, ugly.
<LucidFox> Still, this is a step in the right direction.
<slytherin> LucidFox: Expected. It is quite new. Not even an year old.
<LucidFox> Ideally I'd like something like Google Chrome, but for mail.
<LucidFox> Instead of a cluttered Outlook-like UI that pops up a wizard on first start and wastes more space on combo boxes and buttons than on message content. :)
<\sh> I would like to see a client which can deal with this *censored* exchange crap
<siretart`> given that evolution's development is mostly closed, with programmers sitting in I think pakistan or india, I share your surprise that we don't have a better alternative...
<achadwick> I quite like the idea of http://sup.rubyforge.org up to a point. Give it a saner, GUIish way of displaying email and a decent backend, and it might be a winner. Course then it wouldn't be sup, but hey...
<\sh> siretart, claws-mail for standard mail stuff works...it's a mutt with GUI ;)
<slytherin> siretart`: Any idea where in India? If it is not far from my place may be I will pay them a visit. :-P
<siretart`> \sh: perhaps a good choice for xubuntu, but certainly not for a gnome desktop
<\sh> siretart, oh well...I'm a pragmatic guy
<siretart`> \sh: btw, may I take your latest mail to fai-devel that you are unsure if we really need to fall back to unionfs-fuse?
<\sh> siretart, in the past we had problems with aufs right? and waldemar is also not sure if the latest aufs in karmic kernel helps us...
<\sh> eventually I can check this out later this week..
<siretart`> yes, last time I looked at fai the problem was to totally borked aufs in jaunty's kernel
<siretart`> I really do hope that karmic's aufs works much better on nfs, but appaerently nobody hast tested that yet
<siretart`> slytherin: look for a local Novel/Suse subsidiary
<slytherin> hmm
<LucidFox> \sh> claws-mail has a horrible icon theme, from the olden days of GNOME.
<siretart`> if you are really interested, I can ask a new collegue here at work (he is affiliated with suse..)
<LucidFox> And it's still cluttered and standing out in GNOME.
 * siretart` uses and loves gnus. it will even be promoted to main for lucid :-)
<\sh> LucidFox, really, I don't care about icons ;)
<LucidFox> And text-based clients won't do either. It may not do me favor among kewl hackerz, but I'm a GUI person.
<directhex> i agree
<LucidFox> And I want a cohesive desktop based on the GNOME philosophy.
<LucidFox> I'd like to see Chromium installed by default, for example.
<directhex> gnome philosophy means epiphany ;)
<LucidFox> Well, just because it's the official browser in GNOME doesn't make it the best.
<LucidFox> Same with empathy - I still don't know what they were smoking to put it in the default installation.
<\sh> siretart, do you have a good default config for gnus?
<directhex> LucidFox, perhaps it relates to the unspoken problems with pidgin's upstream development?
<LucidFox> That beong
<LucidFox> * That being?
<directhex> can't tell you. look up "unspoken" in the dictionary ;)
<LucidFox> "The Ubuntu community has contributed 16666 ideas"
<LucidFox> Spooky.
<LucidFox>  11-Jun-2008
<LucidFox> After some complaining and whining from a few people about how long it's taking, we've finally released a new Linux version: 2.8.6, enjoy.
<LucidFox> ^ from xchat.org.
<siretart`> \sh: default config? what's that? :-)
<\sh> siretart, btw...the replacement for gnus/mail today is named eclipsemail (http://eclipsemail.org/wiki/index.php/Eclipsemail_User_Guide)
<\sh> oh pop3 only...crap ;)
<siretart`> err, in what ways can that be a replacement?
<\sh> siretart, for people not knowing emacs ;) but eclipse
<siretart`> if there was only a proper text editor in eclipse.. oh well.
<siretart`> btw, how is eclipse doing these days in ubuntu? are we still shipping obsolete/outdated packages that don't work with current 3rd party extensions?
<\sh> siretart, well, I do like the pydev stuff from eclipse, in combination with http://eclipse-tools.sourceforge.net/shortcuts.html rocks
<\sh> siretart, eclipse in karmic works like a charm...
<\sh> even with 3rd party stuff
<siretart`> oh, indeed. seems we now ship 3.5.1. cool
<siretart`> kudos to bdrung, then! :-)
<noneNN> will kernel 2.6.32 be on karmic repos?
<directhex> noneNN, no. karmic is a stable release, no invasive changes go in post-release
<slytherin> noneNN: No.
<directhex> i still don't "get" eclipse :(
<slytherin> directhex: keep trying, it i not that hard. :-)
<directhex> slytherin, i've occasionally poked it since i was an undergrad, and never thought more than "ick"
<slytherin> directhex: probably because you never worked full time on a java based app.
<directhex> true
<LucidFox> slytherin> Ehehehe
<LucidFox> I can relate tot hat.
<LucidFox> I use Eclipse for Java extensively, but I couldn't get used to it for anything else.
<\sh> eclipse + pydev + pybzr == my favorite UI for python development (+ web ext. for html / css /javascript stuff)
<\sh> and apache directory studio plugin for ldap stuff...
<lfaraone> Can I build a package with CDBS that uses multiple setup.py files? If so, how?
<ngirard> Hi all. Using equivs-build I've built & installed a dummy package whose "provides" are beeing ignored by apt-get. Specifically, my texlive-dummy does provide, among others, tex-common ; and yet  apt-get install jadetex requires libosp5 openjade1.3 tex-common tipa to be installed... any thoughts ?
<ripps> ngirard: you need to setup Conflicts and Replaces
<ripps> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-control
<ngirard> Hi ripps. Thanks for your answer
<ngirard> ripps: Here's the contents of texlive-dummy.txt : http://pastebin.com/d2f5cc73a . I've used it to build such texlive-dummy package: equivs-build texlive-dummy.txt ;  sudo dpkg -i texlive-dummy_1.5_all.deb
<ngirard> It still doesn't work as expected.
<ngirard> sudo apt-get install tipa
<ngirard> suggests to *remove* my texlive-dummy in order to install tex-common texlive-base texlive-base-bin and so on...
<ripps> I don't have any experience with a control that big and complicated, wait around until a MOTU can help
<ngirard> ripps: sure. Thanks anyway !
<alkisg> I have a project in a bzr branch in launchpad. I want to rearrange it a lot - rename a lot of files and dirs, add many new ones... I don't mind losing the history, so is it possible to clear the whole branch and start over?
<tsimpson> you can probably just delete the branch and push to it again
<alkisg> Thank you tsimpson :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> hoi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi \sh
<\sh> bddebian, not in dallas @ uds?
<geser> ngirard: tipa has a versioned dependency on tex-common and Provides don't work with versioned dependencies
<geser> Hi bddebian, \sh
<\sh> hey geser
<bddebian> Heya geser
<ngirard> Hi geser. Thanks for you answer. What would you advice me then ?
<geser> ngirard: what are you trying to achieve?
<ngirard> geser: sorry for beeing unclear. For all tex-related stuff I need, I've installed a fresh TeXlive 2009 manually. I want to prevent apt-get to install the official tex-related packages
<geser> ah, you could try to build an empty package named "tex-common" with a large version (so it fullfills the dependencies but don't get replaced with a real tex-common package on next upgrade). But I don't know if there is a script which helps you doing it
<geser> it's like a meta-pacakge but with empty Depends
<ngirard> geser: what if I added large versions to the contents of my texlive-dummy control file ? Would it work ?
<ngirard> to every package provided by texlive-dummy, meaning
<geser> ngirard: Provides has only package names, no version. if you make your texlive-dummy version e.g. 2009, you still can only provide an unversioned texlive-common which doesn't fullfill the requirement of tex-common >= 1.18 (or similar)
<geser> you would need to "rename" your texlive-dummy to tex-common
<ngirard> geser: damn.
<ngirard> geser: it'll take ages to generate empty, versioned packages corresponding to all texlive-related packages
<geser> ngirard: you need only those which appear in versioned dependencies, the others can be only provided
<ngirard> geser: insightful ! Yeah, right !
<geser> ngirard: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-virtual if you want to read how Provides work
<serialorder> i don't know much yet so this might be a totally stupid idea, if it is i apologize and would like to know, but could you add it so that you could select your local version with update-alternatives?
<ngirard> geser: okay, i'll go for your solution. Thanks very much for your assistance !
<geser> you can use update-alternatives to select which implementation should be the default for a command, but that won't work on package versions (they are in dpkg's database)
<geser> ngirard: I hope it works
<ngirard> geser: it worked... at least for the very tipa package I told you about. Now, i'm afraid i'd like to ask you another question: sudo apt-get build-dep gnucash libaqbanking --> among the dependancies there also seems to be versioned dependancies of some tex-related packaged. My question is: How could I track these dependancies ?
<ngirard> geser: here's the output: http://pastebin.com/d234ad565
<geser> ngirard: I assume the tex packages are only recommended on some build-dependencies, I get no tex packages listed with disabled recommends (I've tested it on lucid but karmic and lucid shouldn't diverged much yet)
<ngirard> geser: err... i'm not sure i understood, but anyway, I'm considering the following workaround: in bash or python, automate the creation & installation of dummy tex-related packages having a very high version. The only problem is, I may have problems when the official texlive 2009 packaged will be out and i want to switch to them
<ngirard> the official texlive 2009 packaged -> packages ^
<geser> ngirard: what you break, you'll have to fix yourself :) you could try using a high but unique version number (e.g. 9999) for which you could grep later the output of dpkg -l to find any of your dummy packages
<ngirard> geser: good idea ! Let's go with it. Thanks again for your help !
<maxb> Hmm. I'm trying to do my first UDD merge, and I got huge amounts of conflicts. So I read james_w's email and did it again with "bzr merge-package" which did lots of voodoo. But I still get unexpected conflicts within the debian/ dir
<maxb> I am trying to merge lp:debian/sid/subversion into lp:ubuntu/lucid/subversion
<randomaction> i think it's ok if you can resolve them
<maxb> eww. The history of this branch is entirely screwed up
<maxb> bzr merge-package is attempting to merge the changes from several already-merged debian versions
<randomaction> oh, is it a problem with bzr-merge-package?
<randomaction> I never used it, only MoM
<maxb> randomaction: It turns out that this package's package branches are a bit screwed up
<maxb> There's a debian revision bound to the history of the ubuntu package branch which isn't present in the debian package branch. This is confusing things rather significantly
<randomaction> these branches seem to have no common revisions
<m4rtin> once a patch has been submitted to the main-sponsors list, how long does it usually take for review?
<randomaction> maxb: or is it because it was merged from experimental?
<fcuk112> python-all-dev; does anyone know the diff between 9.04 and 9.10 when installing this package?
<RainCT> fcuk112: not much, that package is empty
<RainCT> it justs depends on all -dev packages for the different python versions
<fcuk112> but do you know if the depencies have changed?
<fcuk112> i am trying to upgrade libavg; and somehow it now fails through pbuilder.
<maxb> randomaction: Oh! Yes! And yuck, that means the UDD tools are broken in this case
<randomaction> because experimental and sid usually don't overlap
<rizwanhudda> hi ubuntu geeks
<rizwanhudda> i am new to ubuntu-motu , can some one suggest me where to start
<geser> m4rtin: it depends how busy the core-devs are, now with uds happening, I'd be patient till middle/end of next week
<rizwanhudda> hi gesser,m4rtin
<m4rtin> geser: thanks - not moaning, just no point looking for a response before there's likely to be one (first patch over-excitement ;))
<maxb> randomaction: huh? Surely the primary purpose of experimental is as a feeder for packages that eventually show up in sid?
<randomaction> I mean, versions don't overlap. Last version of subversion in experimental was 1.6.1dfsg-1, followed by 1.6.3dfsg-1 in sid.
<randomaction> There's no migration like unstable -> testing.
<maxb> Right... there's no firm implied relationship *but* often there is a relationship since experimental is often-but-not-always a merge in the debian packager's vcs
<maxb> s/a merge/a branch that is merged into what later goes to sid/
<maxb> And the problem here appears to be that after a merge-from-experimental, the auto-importer didn't write appropriate ancestry for the subsequent merge from unstable
<ajmitch> maxb: probably something you need to bug james_w about
<maxb> yeah, once I've figured it out enough to file a bug
 * maxb hugs bzr qlog
<maxb> without which this would be an intractable problem :-)
<maxb> Is there a word for a merge commit which has no changes and only exists to fix the ancestry?
<maxb> .oO( bzr ci -m "Tie ancestry from debian/sid on upstream import branch." )
<randomaction> I wonder if source format 3.0 (git) would make life easier
<adama> http://www.geekologie.com/2009/11/15/cisco-bars.jpg
<ari-tczew> hello devs, I have a question
<ari-tczew> if Ubuntu's changes have been merged in Debian, should we sync package?
<av`> yes
<ari-tczew> but I see on merges.ubuntu.com comments "no need" or something
<StevenK> Probably means "no need to merge"
<ari-tczew> I think we should sync packages which are the same because it's easier for autosync in future
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew, because those changes that *are* in Ubuntu, and have been *merged* to Debian, there's no need to sync a package that already have the Ubuntu Changes
<StevenK> RoAkSoAx: Sure there is.
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew, however, some of those commnets might not be up to date
<ari-tczew> so, what's the conclusion? ignored these comments, or request a sync?
<StevenK> RoAkSoAx: There is always a win to sync a package, because this means Ubuntu will stay up to date if Debian changes the package while the autosyncer runs
<StevenK> ari-tczew: File a sync request
<ari-tczew> StevenK: thanks!
<geser> the comment could have been added late in the development cycle where it didn't make much sense to sync it at that time
<RoAkSoAx> stefanlsd, yes indeed.
<RoAkSoAx> yes and that's what I meant, that at the moment of the comment there was no need to sync it
<RoAkSoAx> stefanlsd, wrong nick sorry :P
<ari-tczew> +1 for: [21:44] <StevenK> RoAkSoAx: There is always a win to sync a package, because this means Ubuntu will stay up to date if Debian changes the package while the autosyncer runs
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew, right, but for example, you made a change in Ubuntu, i.e. apply a patch in Ubuntu and forward it to Debian, then Debian applies that patch, and releases a new package, then there's no need to merge/sync it at that moment, as geser said
<ari-tczew> yes, but if Debian will release a new package later, we need checking again
<ari-tczew> but if we will sync package now, later autosync can do it (get  a new Debian's package)
<geser> now is a good time to sync such packages, but not necessarily a few weeks before beta-freeze (as an example) where we don't get any benefit from it
<sebner> huhu geser :)
<ari-tczew> sebner: I have added a commen for cpufire-applet on merges.ubuntu.com "feel free to take it" as you wrote in mail
<ari-tczew> s/commen/comment
<serialorder> StevenK, is there a reason not to submit the viewport patch in rdesktop to debian?
<StevenK> serialorder: I don't see why not. Keep in mind I've not touched rdesktop in quite some time
<StevenK> I happen to be subscribed to an old bug
<serialorder> yeah I noticed, I think we have worked out a fixes for both the -y and the -K bugs
<StevenK> Do they keep everyone happy? :-)
<serialorder> so far
<geser> Hi sebner
<StevenK> serialorder: Then I think the next step is to file a Debian bug about this, or to engage with upstream directly
<serialorder> StevenK, I decided to work on that because rdesktop was in no condition to be deployed in a LTS release the way it was.
<serialorder> well i would like to do a little more testing first just to make sure but that would be the plan
<ari-tczew> StevenK: could you review this bug 389856, please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389856 in cuetools "Please sync cuetools 1.3.1-7 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389856
<StevenK> ari-tczew: Looks good to me
<sebner>  ari-tczew sure :)
<ari-tczew> right! but not looks good for nellery
<sebner> ari-tczew: would you mind add that comment to all of my merges?
<ari-tczew> so are you not interesting to merging packages changed by you?
<sebner> ari-tczew: I don't have really time for it now so it's better some contributor has a little bit of training ;D
 * ajmitch needs training & a few merges to do :)
<ari-tczew> sebner: If I'll get a bit of time I can comment this
<ari-tczew> Alert! Devs, please do not closing sync's request if changes was merged in Debian!
<ari-tczew> We are not forwarding changes for Debian, after that were rejected
<Rocha> hi
<ari-tczew> this is passing with the idea
<Rocha> i'm having some trouble with launchpad
<Rocha> how can i branch two branches i have in a project registered in launchpad?
<ari-tczew> Rocha: #launchpad
<Rocha> ok
<ari-tczew> StevenK: thanks for ACK!
<sebner> ari-tczew: thx :)
<ari-tczew> devs! please give a comment on merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html including bug#number of sync's request, it making work on merges more easier
<ari-tczew> sebner: you didn't change any package on main, so on universe I have marked all packages changes by you as "feel free to take it"
<sebner> ari-tczew: great. thanks!
<ari-tczew> sebner: working for MOTU it's my pleasure
<sebner> heh
<master> lol
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-17
<Laney> ari-tczew: Can you please stop touching random old bugs? I emailed you about this before
<mirsal> Hello
<mirsal> I need to reopen a launchpad bug that was marked "Fix released". Should I set it back to "In Progess" or should I file a new bug ?
<jdong> depends on how precisely sure you are that the bug you are seeing is the direct result of a regression to the fix in the old bug
<jdong> in other words, it's better when in doubt to open a new bug
<jdong> and have the bug triaging people decide whether or not it's a dupe
<mirsal> Actually the bug was only partially fixed
<mirsal> jdong, It's this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xf86-input-evtouch/+bug/401039
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401039 in xf86-input-evtouch "Add support for TouchPack family touchscreens (Clevo TN120 series tablets / ASUS eeeTOP and other devices)" [Undecided,Fix released]
<mirsal> jdong, The I only fixed support for Clevo tablets
<ari-tczew> Laney: don't panic
<mirsal> jdong, ok I fixed the bug anyway,
<mirsal> Now I need someone who can review & upload the changes
<fcuk112> i am getting the following error when building a package under vbox : http://www.pastie.org/701953
<jdong> ROFL the build system runs a test suite that needs a SDL display?
<fcuk112> can i still use pbuilder build for this package under vbox?
<jpds> wgrant: ^--
<jpds> Ah, build system != Soyuz.
<EzraR> can we murge something from unstable if needed?
<RAOF> EzraR: Yes, if there's a reason to do so.
<EzraR> a package in testing relies on a package only in unstable for example
<RAOF> How did that happen?
<EzraR> that should probally be a debian bug though
<RAOF> Yes, it should :)
<EzraR> i dont know...electric sheep has flam3 in the depends
<RAOF> Aaaah.  You're looking at making electricsheep actually work?  Cool.
<EzraR> yeah
<EzraR> i got it built but we dont have lam3 in ubuntu
<RAOF> flam3 seems to be in testing.
<RAOF> http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/flam3
<RAOF> This might just need to get picked up in the autosync.
<RAOF> (next autosync)
<EzraR> strange i just did a search for it and didnt find it...nice
<EzraR> thats probally a good sign that its bed time :)
<EzraR> would it catch it in pbuilder if a depend wasnt met?
<EzraR> just reliezed i was trying to install it in karmic to test it
<EzraR> flam3 wouldnt be in karmic
<RAOF> Indeed it would not :)
<EzraR> hehe deff time for bed
<AnAnt> Hello, I am uploading texlive2009 packages (which have just hit Debian experimental) to my karmic PPA (ppa:aelmahmoudy/tl2009) if anyone wants to try them out
<fcuk112> i tried pbuilder build on my main workstation but still getting http://www.pastie.org/701953.  strange.
<fcuk112> i guess the question is, how do i enable the frame buffer in karmic?
<directhex> fcuk112, inside your pbuilder? you don't
<fcuk112> ah, it seems there is a bug in LP for it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/428519
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428519 in grub2 "Unable to enable framebuffer modes with grub 2" [Undecided,New]
<fcuk112> directhex: i guess i need to set up the frame buffer on my main workstation or the VM for the package build to succeed.
<directhex> frankly, i'd patch the build system
<directhex> requiring compilation only on run-capable machines is *dumb*
<fcuk112> that's an idea...
<fcuk112> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsoup2.4/+bug/483826 do i do uscan -verbose in the old source folder to do the sync?  i seem to get back 2.28.1, not 2.28.1.3 as described in the bug.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 483826 in libsoup2.4 "Sync libsoup2.4 2.28.1-3 (main) from Debian sid (main)" [Undecided,New]
<mirsal> fabrice_sp, Thanks :)
<yofel> hi, now that bug 411262 is fixed in lucid and tested in karmic-proposed, what's left to do to get it into karmic-updates?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 411262 in rott "package rott 1.1-3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/411262
<DktrKranz> yofel: two more days of testing, and an archive-administrator to perform the task
<yofel> DktrKranz: ok, so the testing phase is always >=1 week? (It's my first SRU)
<AnAnt> Hello, is there a reason that upstream usually (if not always) don't use -Wl,--as-needed in LDFLAGS ?
<siretart`> AnAnt: mostly because they are not aware of the benefits of that option, I suppose
<siretart`> there are some cornercases where it is actually harmful, though.
<fcuk112> is there a difference between an update and a sync?
<AnAnt> I see
<AnAnt> siretart`: actually I was trying to compile gwave with -Wl,--as-needed, and build did fail !
<siretart`> AnAnt: probably upstream did not declare all libraries to ld. this would be a bug then
<DktrKranz> yofel: at least a week, depending how quick users test the update
<siretart`> finding those bugs is the main reason why that linker option is a good diea
<yofel> DktrKranz: ok, thanks
<DktrKranz> you're welcome, and thanks for your interest :=
<DktrKranz> :)
<\sh> moins
<fcuk112> editing Makefile.am; does that need to be added to quilt?
<LucidFox> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autohell
 * LucidFox chuckles
<ajmitch> such a nice redirect :)
<ajmitch> accurate too
<directhex> LucidFox, totally stealing that for twittering purposes
<LucidFox> directhex> Ugh, Twitter
<\sh> siretart, FAI ubuntu karmic devel version fetch from svn://svn.debian.org/svn/fai/people/shermann/ubuntu-3.3.1/ <- just building the packages
<siretart`> \sh: wohooo! :-) - url noted.
<\sh> siretart, I've build some packages and just testing on a local vmware image
<siretart`> we ordered new machines that will hopefully be delivered this or next week. then I can join you with testing them
<master> hello
<master> umm
<master> does anyone here know how to do OS development
<siretart`> no
<slytherin> master: What do you mean by OS development?
<ashiswin> like
<ashiswin> programming an OS from bootloader up
<ashiswin> does anyone know how?
<\sh> siretart, looks good
<slytherin> ashiswin: Even if anyone knew this is not the channel for that kind of discussion.
<ashiswin> i mean
<ashiswin> could someone pm me about it please
<siretart`> \sh: with unionfs-fuse, or with karmic's in-kernel aufs?
<\sh> siretart, default kernel aufs
<siretart`> that would indeed be great!
<siretart`> let's just hope that it won't get broken again in lucid's kernel
<\sh> siretart, I'm now at install stage...and it looks really good
<\sh> siretart, it will..there are problems with squeeze already
<\sh> siretart, something to do with update-initramfs divertion of fai
<siretart`> great
<siretart`> :-/
<\sh> siretart, let's get karmic rolling first, thomas deals with squeeze, too...and we are running into the same problems with lucid, hopefully the issues are fixed by then :)
<siretart`> agreed
<porthose_> DktrKranz, would you mind if I did the gl-117 merge/sync?
<DktrKranz> porthose_: please go ahead :)
<porthose_> ok ty :)
<Laney> DktrKranz: why did you ping me about pidgin-facebookchat t'other day?
<bddebian> Heya folks
<Laney> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Laney
<DktrKranz> Laney: my error, sorry
<Laney> heh heh
<Laney> it had gone out of my scrollback
<\sh> siretart, svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/svn/fai/people/shermann/fai-3.3.2ubuntu1 <- fai 3.3.2 for karmic working
 * siretart` hugs \sh!
<\sh> :)
<siretart`> \sh: will you upload to karmic then?
<siretart`> we can backport in our ppa anyways..
<\sh> siretart, to karmic? nope that's not possible...I'll create some ppa packages
<siretart`> why not?
<\sh> karmic is released?
<siretart`> dammit. lucid I mean
<\sh> siretart, lucid based on squeeze , fai on squeeze == fail
<\sh> siretart, well..I'll check tomorrow, if this fai version works with lucid from tomorrow...something really strange happened on squeeze, someone from gonicus reported that
<\sh> siretart, http://pastebin.com/d74d46de5 <- that was his output...last lines update-initramfs not creating an initrd
<\sh> siretart, btw..I can upload to ppa:fai/ppa, right?
<siretart`> \sh: yes, feel free.
<siretart`> \sh: I've made you admin of ~fai now. you're obviously way more active than me :-)
<\sh> siretart, lol...I have a problem now
<\sh> Rejected:
<\sh> fai_3.3.2ubuntu1~ppa1.dsc: Format is not 1.0. This is incompatible with dpkg-source.
<\sh> dpkg-source failed for fai_3.3.2ubuntu1~ppa1.dsc [return: 9]
<siretart`> \sh: may I suggest that you take the fai-3.3.2.tar.gz as orig.tar.gz, and upload it as non-native format 1.0  package?
<siretart`> that's what I did for the last uploads
<siretart`> and makes it easy for thomas to review the ubuntu changes. they will end up in the .diff.gz
<\sh> siretart, thomas reviews them inside SVN ;)
<siretart`> yes
<\sh> .dsc file tells me: Format 3.0 (native)
<siretart`> \sh: try removing debian/source/format
<\sh> a jetzt ja, eine insel
<siretart`> v3 support will come soon *sic*
<\sh> well...if this upload succeeds now, you can go and test it on your local infra :)
<\sh> siretart, uploaded and building
<siretart`> excellent
<fcuk112> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/d-shlibs/+bug/484194 uscan -verbose doesn't bring anything back, how do i get at the updated source in debian testing?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484194 in d-shlibs "Please sync d-shlibs 0.41 (main) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New]
<g33k> which is the best method to make a meta deb file which takes care of just the dependencies? i tired to add them in the control file, the meta deb has no source in it, i used dpkg-deb -b doest seem to do the job
<siretart`> g33k: look at equivs
<g33k> siretart, actually as of now, i have few lot of shell scripts which are checking if the required dep is present if not doing an apt-get, using is cdbs is better? me looking at equivs also what do u suggest sir?
<siretart`> parse error, bailing out
 * g33k stacktrace for parse error
<randomaction> fcuk112: get at the updated source? you mean, download it?
<fcuk112> randomaction: yes.
<EzraR> how can i check if a package has been auto synced to lucid?
<StevenK> EzraR: Check Launchpad
<randomaction> fcuk112: pull-debian-source or http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages or http://packages.qa.debian.org/common/index.html
<EzraR> StevenK: ok so if i cant find it on launchpad it didnt get synced?
<StevenK> EzraR: Which package are you concerned about?
<EzraR> StevenK: flam3
<EzraR> StevenK: im trying to workout electricsheep and it depends on it
<pace_t_zulu> is ajmitch around?
<EzraR> StevenK: its in debian testing
<pace_t_zulu> i'm trying to get a package synced for lucid
<pace_t_zulu> i suppose everyone is doing UDS stuff
<pace_t_zulu> :/
<EzraR> i guess i could grab the debian package and test with that, then if there is a problem i would already have a head start on it
<cody-somerville> yup
<EzraR> it WILL get synced though right?
<pace_t_zulu> have debian packages all been synced?
<pace_t_zulu> that's why i'm here
<randomaction> some apparently haven't
<fcuk112> randomaction: thanks for that.
<pace_t_zulu> so should we just wait for a bit then?
<randomaction> I think so, and if the package in question doesn't get synced, you can ask the AAs or file a manual sync request
<randomaction> actually, I took a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration and found that "auto-sync" is a relatively involved process
<fabrice_sp_> take into account also that 3.0 packages cannot be synced right now
<ari-tczew> hello
<fabrice_sp_> hello
<fabrice_sp_> fcuk112, a sync request has to be put as new to get sponsorship
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp_: do you work today on sponsorship?
<fabrice_sp_> in half an hour (just back from work), and got scared by the volume of bugs reports waiting for sponsorship :-)
<ari-tczew> :)
<ari-tczew> how long autosync is work?
<StevenK> ari-tczew: I just ran one ...
<StevenK> But it will be run until the Debian Import Freeze
<ari-tczew> I'm asking about this because I saw syncs requests of packages which wasn't changed after sync from Debian - I see no reason for requesting this if autosync will done this
<Laney> StevenK: Are people processing sync requests? Nothing seemed doing last week and I guess now it's on hold for UDS
<StevenK> Laney: I've been doing some, but I've mostly been distracted by sessions
<Laney> I've had some sitting for 2 weeks now
<Laney> seems unusual
<Laney> but, oh well, not complaining
<StevenK> Laney: Would you like me to process one?
<StevenK> (Or two? I have a few seconds spare)
<Laney> StevenK: No, not urgent, just observing
<fabrice_sp_> jdong, do you have time to have a look at bug #401039?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401039 in xf86-input-evtouch "Add support for TouchPack family touchscreens (Clevo TN120 series tablets / ASUS eeeTOP and other devices)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/401039
<ajmitch> pace_t_zulu: you were looking for me for something?
<jdong> fabrice_sp_: you're acked
<fabrice_sp_> cool. Thanks! I will be able to demonstrate to my son that I do something for Ubuntu :-) (even if it's only sponsoring something ;-) )
<jdong> hahahaha
<randomaction> sponsoring is good! :)
<jdong> it absolutely is
<jdong> one of the biggest complaints I hear is that the sponsorship queue is too latent
<jbernard_> what do I need to do to get the latest version of 'mr' in lucid? is it as simple as requesting a sync?
<jbernard_> there is no ubuntu delta, so I'm thinking yes
<StevenK> jbernard_: If there is no Ubuntu delta, don't bother -- it will get autosync'd
<jbernard_> StevenK, ahh, perfect
<jbernard_> StevenK: when will this occur?
<StevenK> jbernard_: We have the latest package in Lucid that is in testing?
<jbernard_> StevenK: oh, that's whats going on, is it possible to pull from sid?
<jbernard_> im guessing no
<StevenK> 0.43 is in sid, too?
<StevenK> But yes, we can, if needed
<jbernard_> my mistake, i had not seen that 0.43 was already in lucid
<jbernard_> that solves my problem
<jbernard_> StevenK: thanks
<StevenK> jbernard_: No problem
<fabrice_sp__> randomaction, I know :-) But try to explain that to a 10 years old kid, and you'll see :-D
<ari-tczew> Timeout error
<ari-tczew> Our edge server has a lower timeout threshold than launchpad.net, so we can catch those before they hit a wider audience. As a member of the Launchpad Beta Testers team, you're more likely to experience them. If this is blocking your work, you can disable redirection.
<ari-tczew> Disable redirection for 2 hours
<ari-tczew> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad.
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: then report it in #launchpad
<ari-tczew> OK
<yofel> hi, could someone from the motu-sru team please review and if ok sponsor the patch in bug 484322?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484322 in treeline "Treeline Won't Even Run in 9.10" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484322
<jdong> oh y'all kids
<jdong> not even waiting for lp bugmail to propagate :)
<jdong> *looks*
<yofel> hey jdong ^^
<ajmitch> shocking, isn't is
<ajmitch> it's not as good as bugs against revu because a .changes file is needed
<ari-tczew> we are going to get syncs request over than 200! :D
<ajmitch> ?
<randomaction> many syncs == good interaction with Debian :)
<ajmitch> I guess it could be looked at that way
<StevenK> ari-tczew: We so aren't
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: yea i was checking in about debian package syncing for lucid
<ajmitch> I'm not the person to ask about it, and you just need to wait :)
<ajmitch> first few weeks before/around UDS can be funny
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: ty
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: just trying to stay on top of it
<jdong> yofel: see comment.
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: who is the person to ask about it?
<yofel> jdong: done
<jdong> awesome
<ajmitch> pace_t_zulu: I''d say the archive team, but they probably won't appreciate getting repeated pokes about their queue of sync requests :)
<pace_t_zulu> like cjwatson ?
<Laney> I noticed some got done, good work StevenK!
<yofel> jdong: where do I get a sponsor for  the debdiff again?
<jdong> grrrrrr
<jdong> lol
<jdong> I'll look back here in 30 minutes
<jdong> and if you don't have a sponsor I'll do it at that time :)
<StevenK> Laney: There is a looooooooong list
<ajmitch> StevenK: we'll try not to mercilessly nag you then
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> I'm not the only archive admin to nag :-P
<ajmitch> I know, but you're easier to nag
<ajmitch> timezones & all
<StevenK> Certainly not currently, I'm not ....
<ajmitch> no, you're 5 hours out rather than 2 :)
<StevenK> 5 hours yesterday, which is more the pity
<ajmitch> I don't envy you the flights there & bacck
<StevenK> ajmitch: It's easier than Europe. I got here in 17 hours, whereas I only get to London after 20
<ajmitch> 20 hours to london? luxury!
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-18
<LucidFox> Ugh, Compiz in Karmic is seriously unstable.
<lifeless> as compared to what ? :)
<LucidFox> Jaunty.
<LucidFox> It keeps crashing.
<LucidFox> Guess what, X crashed. May be the NVIDIA drivers...
<StevenK> LucidFox: Nvidia drivers + compiz + Karmic for me has been solid ?
<LucidFox> Not for me.
<StevenK> File a bug with a backtrace from compiz, if one is obtainable?
<fabrice_sp_> hmm, surelly a dumb question, but why MOTU can't upload sync from Debian to the archive as a normal package?
<StevenK> fabrice_sp_: Because Ubuntu doesn't have a distribution called 'unstable'
<lifeless> StevenK: well, you can override that in genchanges
<StevenK> Ssshh!
<lifeless> fabrice_sp_: because, over-all, we find it easier this way :)
<lifeless> fabrice_sp_: there are a number of autoamted changes we make to syncs
<lifeless> like the X-Original-blah fields
<lifeless> so a sync really means 'make only the expected programmatic changes'
<fabrice_sp_> Ok, but they could be made by a script also. I was just trying to remove some work from our lovelly archive admin :-)
<fabrice_sp_> admins
<lifeless> they have a script ;)
<fabrice_sp_> seeing what they paste in the sync request bug report, I can imagine that :-)
<micahg> what's the command to make debuild continue a build?
<lifeless> there isn't one
<lifeless> perhaps you mean something different to what you asked though?
<micahg> hmmm
<LucidFox> Why is xchat-gnome in main?
<fcuk112> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cpufire-applet/+bug/482155 just checking if this is the correct way to do a sync: apt-get source xxx; download new source from debian and extract; cp -r debian from old source to new source; debuild -S -kxxx...  is that the correct way?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 482155 in cpufire-applet "Please sync cpufire-applet 1.6-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)." [Wishlist,Triaged]
<directhex> no. a sync re-uses the source package from debian
<fcuk112> you mean using uscan -verbose?  what if it can't find anything?  should i be editing something to point to the correct location?
<directhex> fcuk112, i mean a sync is something an archive admin does - literally copy-pasting the .orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz and .dsc from debian, into ubuntu
<fcuk112> directhex: oic, so we should leave sync requests alone?
<directhex> after making them, yes
<fcuk112> directhex: i thought it was the same as an upgrade.
<porthose_> fcuk112, maybe this will help https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<fcuk112> porthose_: thanks, it's a bit clearer to me now :)
<fcuk112> heh so how is an upgrade different from a sync or merge?
<geser> what you mean with "upgrade"?
<fcuk112> eg. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgphoto2/+bug/414949 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libavg/+bug/474004 update/upgrade...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414949 in libgphoto2 "upgrade libgphoto2 version 2.4.7" [Wishlist,In progress]
<geser> if there is a new version of a package in Debian we cans sync it (if there are no Ubuntu changes) or merge it (when there are Ubuntu changes)
<geser> if a new upstream version isn't yet pacakged in Debian, we can either wait till it happens or do it ourselves (as ...-0ubuntu1)
<ari-tczew> geser: no, libgphoto2 2.4.7 isn't in Debian
<siretart`> a change is a change is a change. - IOW: morning, folks!
<geser> I know, therefor we have to either wait till it's there (and could sync/merge then) or do it ourselves now
<geser> Hi siretart`
<ajmitch> hello siretart`
<ari-tczew> fcuk112: do you need this quickly? if not, we should fix this in Debian first, then sync
<siretart`> hey geser & ajmitch & * :-)
<fcuk112> ari-tczew: i'm just looking for stuff to do.  well i guess i'd better start looking at merges then.
<fcuk112> siretart`: how long u been working with ubuntu?  i thought i saw a very old bug with your name in it =)
<siretart`> fcuk112: I think my first own uploads were for hoary. not sure if I signed them myself or if they were sponsored at that time..
<siretart`> I believe that they were sponsored and my key was added during the breezy cycle
<fcuk112> old-timer =)
<siretart`> ;-)
<\sh> harhar...the next time I'll met siretart, I'll just say hello like "Hello Old Man" ;)
<\sh> s/met/meet/
<\sh> he'll kick me ;)
<siretart`> wah! :-)
<siretart`> \sh: btw, are you going to fosdem?
<av`> ari-tczew, hi
<ari-tczew> hi av`
<av`> ari-tczew, feel free to do agg merge, or better feel free to forward any patch / delta to Debian so I can include it at next upload :)
<av`> ari-tczew, didnt look at Ubuntu's package yet
<av`> so not sure what's the delta actually
<ari-tczew> ok
<\sh> siretart, dunno...when I still do my job here, eventually...if not, then I have other priorities ;)
<siretart`> oh
<siretart`> i really feel like. oh well
<\sh> siretart, first I need to fix my personal issues...tomorrow I have an appointment with a psychotherapist...I'm close to a real nice burn out...
<highvoltage> so what exactly is the future of motu? it will continue to exist when all the archive shuffeling is done right?
<geser> highvoltage: nobody really knows yet. There is a session scheduled at UDS to discuss this
<highvoltage> geser: ok
<siretart`> \sh: alles gute!
<\sh> siretart, danke :)
<geser> highvoltage: the session is on friday, 11am local time if you want to participate remotely
<\sh> siretart, btw...if you and your wife do have nothing else to do on 31st Dec 2009, blank invitation to Carine and mine end of year party :)
<highvoltage> geser: I'll come and listen in!
<highvoltage> geser: yeah I've just been wondering if there are any knowns yet, it seems like an hour is an awefully short amount of time to discuss it, but hopefully it will work out
<geser> I assume there will be some small discussions off-sessions and that the sessions is to collect all ideas and proposals from all interested
<sebner> geser: ~aloha~ :)
<geser> Hi sebner
<ari-tczew> av`: bug 484694
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484694 in agg "Merge agg 2.5+dfsg1-2 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484694
<siretart`> \sh: oh, thank you for the invitation, but we are already invited for silvester :-(
<nicoInattendu> Hi I'm a dev on a sw called Luciole ( https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/luciole). The sw was aprroved since karmic in the universe. Bur I have a major bug, who makes it unusable.
<nicoInattendu> How I can summit a fix for the package ? I have the solution almost released
<directhex> nicoInattendu, is the package in karmic unusable?
<mok0> nicoInattendu: File a bug on the package in Launchpad. Then, attach the patch to the bug.
<nicoInattendu> Yes is a bug on karmic.
<nicoInattendu> I filled the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/luciole/+bug/481732
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 481732 in luciole "Webcam acquisition does not work on luciole under karmic" [High,Fix committed]
<nicoInattendu> How I can attach a patch ?
<mok0> nicoInattendu: You can attach a file to the bug report
<nicoInattendu> So the modified files only ?
<mok0> nicoInattendu: there's a button that will open up a dialogue box, then you choose your patch file
<mok0> nicoInattendu: uhm, no
<mok0> nicoInattendu: the output of "diff -u"
<mok0> nicoInattendu: the output of "diff -u" old_file new_file
<mok0> nicoInattendu: or: diff -Nur old_directory new_directory
<nicoInattendu> ok . But I dont see the button for patch. I have only the bug attachment.
<nicoInattendu> Ok I add the diff to the bug
<mok0> nicoInattendu: great, thanks
<mok0> nicoInattendu: can you paste the bug number?
<nicoInattendu> Yes : #481732
<mok0> bug 481732
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 481732 in luciole "Webcam acquisition does not work on luciole under karmic" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/481732
<mok0> nicoInattendu: At the bottom, bolow the box that says "Add comment", there's a little green "plus" and the text "Add an attachment"
<mok0> s/bolow/below
<nicoInattendu> ok thanks
<mok0> nicoInattendu: do you have a fix for bug 481732 as well?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 481732 in luciole "Webcam acquisition does not work on luciole under karmic" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/481732
<goshawkATPoliMi> hi, is there a more convenient way of knowing what is my arch during package creation instead of testing `uname -m`?
<directhex> goshawkATPoliMi, dpkg-architecture ?
<goshawkATPoliMi> directhex: how can i sue int my rulez? show i put dpkg-architecture before the test i'll do?
<Laney> DEB_BUILD_ARCH
<goshawkATPoliMi> thx
<nicoInattendu> mok0 : I have a patch for both problems . I go to update It right now
<mok0> nicoInattendu: Thanks, please be sure to mention both bugs in the comment
<mok0> nicoInattendu: finally, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (right column, near the top)
<nicoInattendu> I create a separate patch for both bugs? Is that correct ?
<mok0> nicoInattendu: That's fine
<nicoInattendu> I added ubuntu-universe-sponsors . What I do with the bug status ? I set to fix committed ?
<nicoInattendu> For the package I meant
<mok0> nicoInattendu: Set to "New"
<nicoInattendu> Ok , and no assignee so ?
<mok0> nicoInattendu: right
<mok0> nicoInattendu: a sponsor will pick it up and get an SRU permission for it
<nicoInattendu> Thanks a lot for the help.
<mok0> nicoInattendu: thank you for the patches
<nicoInattendu> I go to google SRU :)
<LucidFox> Kubuntu doesn't install PulseAudio by default, does it?
<AnAnt> Hello, do the builder on launchpad use sbuild or pbuilder ?
<directhex> i think the PPA's use pbuilder? i think?
<nicoInattendu> mok0 : Do I attach the verification-needed tag to both bugs ?
<geser> sbuild (probably a modified version)
<LucidFox> Both the PPA and Ubuntu archive builders use sbuild.
<LucidFox> I think they even use the same build servers, no?
<tsimpson> servers can either be for PPA use or for distro use
<geser> don't know as PPA uses virtualised buildds while the official buildds use non-virtualised ones
<tsimpson> but they can be changed between those
<directhex> s' all virtualized anyway, so it hardly makes a difference
<AnAnt> thanks
<EzraR> anytime a Makefile is entered by rules the includes and variables in the makefile get initialized right?
<goshawk> in a debian/rules i've         ifeq  ($(DEB_BUILD_ARCH),amd64) but it gives me /bin/sh: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")
<goshawk>  what's wrong?
<tsimpson> do you have "#!/usr/bin/make -f" as the first line of debian/rules?
<goshawk> yes
<goshawk> tsimpson: yes
<tsimpson> well /bin/sh is giving the error, so it's running in a shell for some reason
<tsimpson> "ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH),amd64)" should work
<goshawk> so just substitute BUILD with HOST
<goshawk> nope, same thing
<tsimpson> well I just copied that from another makefile
<goshawk> ifeq  (amd64,amd64)
<goshawk> /bin/sh: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")
<tsimpson> it should not be running in /bin/sh though, for some reason it is
<goshawk> -.-
<tsimpson> what if you just try "make -f debian/rules", does that give the same error?
<goshawk> goshawk@earth:~/libtango-0.99.8+svn5149~exp1.dfsg$ make -f debian/rules
<goshawk> dh_testdir
<goshawk> ifeq (,amd64)
<goshawk> /bin/sh: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")
<goshawk> make: *** [build-stamp-ldc] Error 2
<mok0> goshawk: if that statement is in a target and indented, it will be treated as a shell command
<mok0> goshawk: put the statement before any targets
<goshawk> mok0: yes it's indended in build-stamp-%:
<goshawk> ah understood
<Laney> goshawk: you need to have something like---
<Laney> DEB_HOST_ARCH := $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH)
<mok0> goshawk: good :-)
<goshawk> Laney: it worked withouth the DEB_HOST_ARCH set
<goshawk> :D
<goshawk> thanks mok0, tsimpson, Laney
<Laney> Â¬_Â¬
<mok0> \O/
<fcuk112> bit confused on which patch to upload, possible options are debdiff x.dsc y.dsc, diff -Nur old_dir new_dir, or the diff.gz created by debuild -S.  what are the differences?
<directhex> fcuk112, depends on which type of upload it is
<directhex> fcuk112, debdiff preferred for new ubuntu revisions, diff.gz for upstream updates
<StevenK> fcuk112: And the first two options you gave ought to produce the same diff.
<fcuk112> cool, thanks.
<EzraR> finally i fixed this bug but it feels dirty :(
<EzraR> this package takes a generic config file and puts it through sed to change vales depending on what platform you are running
<EzraR> but its broken
<EzraR> the variables dont get pased to the makefile and it leaves blanks instead of values, which causes the program to not work at all
<EzraR> im just going to put a good default config file in debian dir install it with a .install and remove the call to the broken makefile
<EzraR> does that sound reasonable?
<AnAnt> Hello, could someone help me with this build error: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35826090/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.pcb_20091103-2%7E2.gbpedd967_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<AnAnt> funny thing is that it does not happen in i386 arch
<AnAnt> why does dh_install behave differently with non-i386 archs ?
<LucidFox> Holy cow, PulseAudio drama on Planet Ubuntu.
<Laney> rolleyes
<dennis_> hi@all
<dennis_> I have a question: How do I package a program wich lib (I am packaging it too) needs the program too?
<geser> are the programm and the library two different sources?
<dennis_> yes
<geser> then package the library first and let the programm build-depend on the -dev package from that library
<dennis_> but thats the problem the library needs the program to compile
<dennis_> and the program the library^^
<geser> oh
<dennis_> but they are two sources but one upstream
<geser> how does upstream solve this bootstraping problem?
<dennis_> I think he has his folders on his pc and so his library finds the program source
<dennis_> folder structure
<AnAnt> wierd could it be that dh_install -Xstring- could be not working right in non-i386 archs ?
<geser> dennis_: does the lib need the source files from the program or the compiled program itself?
<dennis_> geser, it needs the program source code
<dennis_> geser, how do I package only the source code, is this possible? So maybe the lib could depend on this?
<geser> that gets tricky and I don't have currently a good idea how to get it done
<dennis_> geser, ok thanks. Good that I am not the only one who is wondering about this ;-)
<\sh> dennis_, tell the guy he should write better code ;)
<dennis_> \sh, hehe I am not quite sure if he will like that ;)
<dennis_> If someone would like to make my day better, please have a look at my packages on revu. My name is dennis-benndorf there....
<dennis_> I have uploaded them a few minutes ago
<jetienne> q. where can i find the pre-removal script of a already installed package ?
<jdong> jetienne: /var/lib/dpkg/info
<geser> /var/lib/dpkg/info/$pkgname.prerm
<jetienne> jdong: thanks
<jdong> sure thing
<corp186> At the top of the REVU site it mentions the Next REVU Day is TBD
<corp186> what is a REVU day?
<fcuk112> REVU is the tool used to vet and check new packages before they are uploaded in the Ubuntu system. Weâre told that the idea for the day will be to green-light as many new packages as possible.
<corp186> that's what I figured... any idea when it will be determined?
<corp186> I have a new package in REVU, and I'm trying to figure out how to get advocates, or even just comments, on it
<EzraR> when you purge a dpkg it should not fail because the directory is empty right?
<StevenK> EzraR: It really depends what fails and how
<EzraR> StevenK: dpkg: warning: while removing gw6c, directory '/etc/gw6c' not empty so not removed
<StevenK> EzraR: Oh, that's okay.
<EzraR> StevenK: ok...just seems un-tidy
<lfaraone> I'm using CDBS with makefile.mk. How do I have the files that the makefile installes in $LIBDIR be moved into /lib? (LIBDIR as set by cdbs puts them in /usr/lib)
<yml> good evening I am in the process of creating a package of uWSGI and I am a bit stuck the plan to to create it and upload it to launchpad PPA.
<yml> but for now I am stuck at the creation step
<yml> I am following this doc : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<yml> I think I have done more or less all the paperwork
<yml> I am now at the modification of the rules
<yml> I have created a branch where I have added the debian directory
<yml> all this is stored here : http://bitbucket.org/yml/uwsgi/src/tip/
<yml> it would be amazing if someone could give me a hand
<Laney> aw
<yml> Laney: is that for me ?
<Laney> oh no sorry I didn't even read what you said
<Laney> I was 'aw'ing at the latest sound rants
<Laney> berating contributors is bad bad form
 * Laney hugs dtchen_ 
 * Laney reads what yml has to say
<yml> Thanks
<Laney> what's the problem?
<yml> yes me too because since 9.10 my sound work again
<yml> Laney: the main problem is in fact I reach the point where I don't know what to do next.
<yml> I think I would need some hand holding
<Laney> here's what you should do
<yml> in order to compile it from source I need to run make -f Makefile.linux.py26
<Laney> rm *.ex *.EX rules docs dirs; cp /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny rules
<yml> where I think that I can't make the assumption that python level is 2.6
<yml> Laney: http://bitbucket.org/yml/uwsgi/src/tip/debian/
<Laney> yep
<yml> here it is where I stand
<Laney> I saw that
<Laney> dh_make generates a load of stuff you don't want
<yml> I have already removed the one that I am sure I don't want
<Laney> go on, take the dive
<yml> know I am left with the files that might be useful.
<yml> s/know/now/
<Laney> good
<yml> this sounds like I am not completely off
<Laney> so the first thing to do is to set up the build-depends and depends in the control file
<yml> Laney: you are in the rules file, right ?
<Laney> I'm talking about the control file
<Laney> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-control
<Laney> read this
<yml> Laney: I have added this in control : Depends: python, libxml2
<Laney> you need to understand more clearly what to put here
<Laney> *Build*-depends is very very important to get right first of all
<Laney> but I'm going to bed, maybe someone else can help you
<Laney> nn
<yml> Laney: thanks
<yml> I will hang around here and see if someone can help me
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-19
<dtchen_> anyone around for a quick mplayer upload to fix bug 482408?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 482408 in mplayer "mplayer overrides pulseaudio's "saved volume" value" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/482408
<dtchen_> afterward should be SRU-able to 9.10, too
 * jdong will bite :)
<dtchen_> jdong: thanks!
<jdong> err...
<jdong> siretart: how would you like to handle the pkg-multimedia-ness of mplayer?
<mannyv> if i request a sync for a package in main on LP is there anything else I need to do to get someone to look at it?
<micahg> mannyv: might be easier to use the requestsync tool
<ari-tczew> mannyv: would be nice if you'll do build test
<mannyv> micahg, I did use requestsync
<mannyv> ari-tczew, I did test build and test install
<ari-tczew> yhym ok
<mannyv> i was wondering if afterwards i just wait for someone to come along and sync it or if i have to do something else to get someone to notice it
<mannyv> i havent been around long but i used to be serialorder then i decided to follow suit and just use my real name =)
<ajmitch> dtchen_: let's hope you get your core-dev upload rights back soon :)
<dtchen_> I applied; I'm awaiting development membership board's say
<ajmitch> I don't think there should be too many objections
<dtchen_> well, status quo won't change anything. It's unlikely that bugs will stop flowing in or that I'll stop fixing them regardless whether I can upload. :-)
<ajmitch> no, it just makes things smoother for you
<ajmitch> you've done an impressive amount of work :)
<dtchen_> I wish I didn't have to blog every time someone writes something daft. :/
<ajmitch> there seems to be a lot of annoyed & confused people around
<ajmitch> I didn't know that MOTUs had so much power :)
<dtchen_> I know seb128 replied to the first post the first time this whole crack came about (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-October/009541.html), but I guess that was lost on many people, too :/
<EzraR> whats the command to look at a dsc and show what gets installed and what it contains etc...
<micahg> mannyv: nope, I believe that's it
<micahg> is this still correct: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/FAQ#I%20need%20to%20fix%20a%20bug%20in%20the%20upstream%20provided%20source,%20modify%20the%20source%20or%20add%20a%20patch?
<nhandler> micahg: Yeah, it looks correct. Although, it could be expanded on a little more
<micahg> ok, I should have specified, I was wondering about the part about modifying the source
<jgoppert> #join ubuntu
<jgoppert> sorry about that
<LucidFox> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/2073/
<LucidFox> ^ I bet most people who downvoted this did it just because it's Mono.
<ajmitch> LucidFox: that one's been talked about a bit
<LucidFox> I know. :)
<fabrice_sp> porthose_, there? About bug #484678
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484678 in ampache-themes "Sync ampache-themes 3.4.3-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484678
<AnAnt> Hello, could someone help me with this wierd build failure: https://launchpad.net/~aelmahmoudy/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/871610/+listing-archive-extra
<AnAnt> it builds for i386 only
<LucidFox> AnAnt> The i386 build does binary while the amd64 build does binary-arch
<AnAnt> LucidFox: huh ?
<AnAnt> LucidFox: so ?
<LucidFox> The amd64 build doesn't build the binary-indep package, and the builder tries to access a file resulting from building the pcb-common package.
<AnAnt> why is that different behaviour ?
<LucidFox> Binary-indep packages are built only once, since there is no need to build them on every architecture
<AnAnt> so, does the package needs fix or what ?
<LucidFox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/322218/
<LucidFox> Yes, you need to fix the binary-arch phase so that it doesn't need files from debian/pcb-common in the arch-dependent package.
<LucidFox> Let me look at debian/rules
<AnAnt> ok, please do
<LucidFox> Oh, nice, I wasn't aware of these override_dh_* makefile rules.
<AnAnt> LucidFox: dh 7 !
<LucidFox> You need to ensure that what's written in override_dh_fixperms only executes for dh binary-arch, not dh binary-indep.
<LucidFox> I know :)
<AnAnt> dh_fixperms -i would do the trick ?
<AnAnt> hmm, nope
<AnAnt> how to do that ?
<LucidFox> The problem is not with dh_fixperms
<LucidFox> We could eschew override_dh_fixperms and modify the binary-arch rule explicitly, but I'm hoping for a cleaner solution
<LucidFox> Apparently there's no way. Hmm...
<LucidFox> Well
<AnAnt> thanks for help
<AnAnt> LucidFox: could it be by checking wether debian/pcb-common exists or not before doing the chmod ?
<LucidFox> You could do that, too!
<LucidFox> [ ! -d debian/$(package)-common ] || chmod <....>
<AnAnt> btw, anyone interested in testing texlive 2009 ?
<LucidFox> AnAnt> I am
<LucidFox> I want it for an updated xetex.
<AnAnt> ppa:aelmahmoudy/tl2009
<AnAnt> it's sync'ed from Debian's experimental
<siretart`> AnAnt: cool! thanks!
<AnAnt> I hope it will be in lucid !
<siretart`> AnAnt: I would support syncing it early in lucid to get maximum testing done. and we really do not want to have a tex from 2007 in a LTS release
<LucidFox> YES
<AnAnt> siretart`: you mean file sync request from experimental ?
 * LucidFox adds the PPA
<LucidFox> My "other software" tab in Software Sources now contains 11 external sources, all PPAs.
<siretart`> AnAnt: perhaps in parallel with a discussion on the mailing list
<LucidFox> At this rate, it will be Karmic in name only.
<siretart`> oh, the ppa has no packages for lucid. :-( - well, I guess the karmic package should do fine as well
<AnAnt> siretart`: I'm still using karmic
<hyperair> LucidFox: i've got 19 ;-)
<LucidFox> AnAnt> http://paste.ubuntu.com/322240/
<AnAnt> oh !
<AnAnt> because I appended ~ to versions
<AnAnt> ok, I think there is no need to append this ~, right ?
<LucidFox> You can relax the dependencies
<LucidFox> >= 2009-0?
<siretart`> or just >= 2009
<siretart`> aptitude is having troubles to install any of those packages, it seems..
<LucidFox> How do I make dh_auto_clean use make clean rather than make distclean?
<AnAnt> LucidFox: override_dh_auto_clean
<LucidFox> Yes, I know, but does it execute anything other than make distclean?
<AnAnt> I don't think I understand the question
<AnAnt> override_dh_auto_clean:
<siretart`> have you looked at the source? It's perl, but the scriptless are rather short...
<AnAnt>   make clean
<AnAnt> siretart`: source of texlive ?
<siretart`> no, that was for LucidFox
<AnAnt> if I got dsc,orig & diff.gz files already, can't I just generate a source.changes file for them ?
<geser> you can, unpack the source and run dpkg-genchanges inside the package dir
<LucidFox> Actually, the problem was elsewhere, as it turned out.
<LucidFox> dh_auto_clean does invoke make clean if make distclean isn't possible.
<LucidFox> But apparently CDBS's makefile.mk just ignores errors, while dh_auto_clean doesn't ignore them if the makefile exists.
<AnAnt> yes, that's true
<AnAnt> oh, CDBS
<AnAnt> dunno about that
<LucidFox> This is why the clean rule broke in the transition from CDBS to dh 7.
<LucidFox> Basically, there's an upstream custom-written makefile that invokes an autogenerated makefile in src, unconditionally.
<LucidFox> Need to file an upstream bug about that, but for now, [ ! -f src/Makefile ] || dh_auto_clean
<LucidFox> I really like the override commands, they allow to transition from CDBS seamlessly in many cases.
<AnAnt> LucidFox: the fix worked, thanks !
<LucidFox> AnAnt> By the way
<LucidFox> you can also use >= 2009~
<LucidFox> er
<LucidFox> >= 2009-1~
<AnAnt> LucidFox: why not just upload the correct version ?
<LucidFox> Well, using the same version number in PPAs as in official archives is a Bad Thing(tm)
<AnAnt> I thought it is a bad thing to do so BEFORE release
<AnAnt> but after ?
<Laney> you should make sure that users get automatically upgraded to the primary archive package if one is forthcoming
<AnAnt> hmmm
<AnAnt> well, I started uploading already
<AnAnt> delete & repeat again ?
<SevenMachines> hi there, i was wondering if someone could have a quick look at something ifupdown-scripts-zg2 0.3-4 in karmic for me? All i'm trying to do is rm debian/ifupdown-scripts-zg2.dirs but dpkg-source is ignoring deletion of it so it doesnt show up in the debdiff. does someone know the reason? i could leave the file empty instead but i was curious
<SevenMachines> http://paste.ubuntu.com/322269/
<geser> is the .dirs file perhaps in the orig.tar.gz and not in the .diff.gz?
<SevenMachines> thanks geser, its obvious now! the orig tarball has the debian directory, i thought that was not supposed to be in there?
<geser> it's preferable if it's not there but sometimes it is
<SevenMachines> is the best method here just to remove the entries from the .dirs and leave the empty file in place?
<geser> in this case yes (or you could rm it in the clean target
<LucidFox> I think it's best to repack the upstream tarball to remove the debian directory from there.
<LucidFox> And file an upstream bug report about it.
<DktrKranz> with format 3.0 (quilt), this is no longer necessary
<LucidFox> Ubuntu doesn't support it yet, though.
<LucidFox> Or rather, LP doesn't.
<LucidFox> AnAnt> I see you uploaded pcb to m.d.n too, great!
<DktrKranz> it's WIP, and I read it will be available in two/three weeks
<AnAnt> LucidFox: yeah
<LucidFox> DktrKranz> Excellent news, I'll migrate my packages to the new format when support lands.
 * DktrKranz too, at least some of them
<DktrKranz> with new format, packages which requires some patching hacks will benefit a lot
<SevenMachines> would removing the entry in .dirs to fix for now and filing a debian bug for repackaging be ok? since lucid will be syncing for a while
<geser> LucidFox: I don't think it makes sense to repack an .orig.tar.gz which is already in Debian (and Ubuntu) just to get rid of the debian dir within
<LucidFox> :)
<SevenMachines> i noticed 3.0 allowed --include-removal option to dpkg-source, that would have made me happy
<LucidFox> When I have multiple language versions of a document in subdirectories, should I only register en with doc-base, or all of them?
<LucidFox> Is there any way to get sponsorship requests in feed form?
<siretart`> LucidFox: IIRC launchpad offers the bug lists as rss feed, doesn't it?
<LucidFox> Well, I'd like to receive a notification via RSS/Atom when someone subscribes ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<LucidFox> siretart`> So what's our stance on debian-multimedia.org? Historically some of our packages have been merged from it, are we going to move away from it?
<siretart`> LucidFox: well, I can only suggest to very very carefully inspect before touching anything from marillat
<siretart`> LucidFox: that site is a one-man show, who doesn't give a sh*t about licensing, compatibility with anything but his own systems, debian/rules or debian/copyright cleaness, etc
<siretart`> the only plus: he has an impressive amount of interesting packages
<LucidFox> I know about all that. :)
<siretart`> LucidFox: if you ask me directly, I'd suggest maintain the packages independently
<LucidFox> And to be fair, for some packages, merging them is 95% applying existing Ubuntu changes for cleanliness from version to version.
<LucidFox> He refuses to repack the qdvdauthor upstream tarball to remove binaries, for example.
<siretart`> so it seems to me that merging from him doesn't seem to help much
<LucidFox> Except for new packages.
<LucidFox> And I'm considering joining the debian-multimedia team, although I have no experience with package development using a VCS.
<siretart`> oh, sending in debdiffs is great as well, you don't really have to learn git if you don't want to :-)
<LucidFox> I've worked with git before, just not in conjunction with Debian packages.
<siretart`> git-buildpackage is really helpful here. it feels like debuild with a few extra options
<LucidFox> Any reason mjpegtools is in multiverse?
<siretart`> I wondered about that as well, but didn't investigat the sources yet deeply. given that we promoted x264, we can maybe promote it.
<LucidFox> And it's not in Debian because of patent issues?
<siretart`> LucidFox: since debian's ftpmaster currently seem to want to remove all of ffmpeg, I didn't really feel like finding out what they might or might not do with mjpegtools
<LucidFox> Remove ffmpeg? Why?
<LucidFox> Patent issues?
<siretart`> yes
<LucidFox> What's the purpose of packages in git that aren't in Debian itself?
<siretart`> either for ubuntu, or debimedia.
<siretart`> debimedia is (at least its supposed to be) an repository with the 'missing bits'
<bddebian> Heya gang
<siretart`> hey bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<iulian> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<\sh> emgent, ping... your exploit thingy where do I find more informations?
<emgent> \sh: ola, i reply to you on FB:)
<emgent> \sh: check again :)
<\sh> emgent, somehow like mod_security?
<emgent> no really
<emgent> it`s a service-product
<emgent> we send via webapps all updates, user can delegate all to us
<emgent> also, we are more aggressive to mod_security
<emgent> and we can manage rules per domain
<emgent> also in 2010 you will see the jesys appliance ;)
<emgent> \sh:
<sproaty> I've already got my program packaged in a PPA, so I just submit a [needs packaging] bug for it?
<\sh> emgent, I hope those appliances can be scaled horizontally ;)
<sproaty> I want to get my package into ubuntu, but I don't know if it's good enough
<cyphermox> sproaty, you should file a [needs-packaging] bug, assign it to yourself, and upload it to revu
<sproaty> but how about measuring the quality of the app? It's pretty functional, even at a 0.39 release, but I've been working on it for over a year
<cyphermox> sproaty, is this an app you wrote yourself?
<sproaty> yes
<sproaty> I have it in the ppa
<cyphermox> sproaty, REVU will allow MOTU to look at your *package*, and see if it's in order, it's less about the overall functionality of the software in it (as long as it's not completely broken)
<sproaty> well the package should be good, it's just some source python - real simple
<cyphermox> the quality of the software itself is your responsibility, wrt being the package maintainer (the one to get the bugs from Ubuntu), and the upstream maintainer :)
<sproaty> ah right
<cyphermox> so if you have users for your program, and it's something that can reasonably be added to the archives, there shouldn't be too much of an issue
<sproaty> I just thought they may have some policy against pretty active development, like I've released 4, 5 versions over the past month
<sproaty> cool, I've got around 5000 downloads so far, with a few people talking to me about the program, so I guess it's functional enough :D
<cyphermox> what I mean by reasonably added is that it serves a real purpose, and if something similar already exist, maybe it does something more, or different, that is really good
<sproaty> it's nothing special, sort of an image editor, but not -exactly- pixel-based, since you can draw shapes, and move/edit these shapes (rather than pixels)
<sproaty> but I'll file it, and see what happens :)
<adama> i've not been brave enough to attempt to package my app yet
<adama> seems somewhat complicated :$
<sproaty> I found it really simple
<sproaty> only problem is I keep re-creating my package from scratch and not .diff from the previous release
<adama> i've got to interact with dbs and stuff, that's the bit which seems complex
<cyphermox> sproaty, perhaps then you should consider using bzr or something similar to keep your packaging
<adama> will probably copy the cacti package at some point, that seems to do pretty much the same
<sproaty> I use bzr, but for my code -- in what context do you use it for a package?
<cyphermox> sproaty, you could keep a different branch that holds just the debian/ directory, then make your changes in there, each change in its revision, so you have history
<sproaty> ah right
<sproaty> but say I've build ppa-1 with debuild -S, as I do
<sproaty> that always asks me about "something something no diff.gz file found"
<sproaty> so surely there's a way for me to build the new package, ppa-2 against what's already in ppa-1?
<cyphermox> sproaty, do you keep a debian/ directory in your source?
<sproaty> no, since it's cross-platform
<sproaty> ugh, I have to run. Shame, I want to get this done
<sproaty> sorry to leave it half-done
<vadi2> How does synaptic manage pinning? I just ran into a bug with it and I can't unforce a package version.
<joaopinto> vadi2, better ask mvo :P
<vadi2> mk
<vadi2> he's not on
<fahadsadah> Hi
<fahadsadah> How would I do an upstream merge with debian?
<fahadsadah> I seem to remember reading something about it in the wiki, but I can't find it now
<Arc> how should I file a bug about a debian library package not including the pkg-config file for itself?
<Arc> upstream includes it, it was not packaged to install though
<LucidFox> fahadsadah> Start with the Debian version, examine the Ubuntu changes and apply them.
<LucidFox> Attach the diff.gz for the merged version to LP when ready.
<Laney> NO!
<Laney> not for a merge, attach the debdiff(s)
<LucidFox> Oh, right!
 * LucidFox facepalms
<LucidFox> Attach the debdiff against the debian version.
<Arc> is that to me?
<LucidFox> diff.gz is for upstream updates within Ubuntu.
<LucidFox> Arc> No, towards fahadsadah and Laney.
<Arc> ah
<fahadsadah> Thanks
<fahadsadah> If the Ubuntu delta can be dropped, do I just get the package from Debian?
<Laney> yes, that's called a sync
<sladen> fahadsadah: you don't do a fresh upload, but order it via the bug-tracker
<Arc> nevermind.  the debian package is messed up beyond our ability to use it anyway
<Arc> when our app gets packaged it'll have to be bundled with a static copy to avoid getting broke by debian-games team next time they decide to mess with upstream's defaults
<Laney> what?
<Laney> why don't you take your issues up with the games team?
<Arc> oh this has been going around and around
<Arc> libode gets built quite often for debian with double precision, which makes it too slow for games
<Arc> but whoever at debian "owns" the package doesn't care
<Laney> why is it ok for debian but not ubuntu?
<Arc> so all the packages that use ODE as a dep end up having to package their own version of ODE
<sladen> Arc: wuhhhhh woah!
<Arc> I hold Ubuntu members to higher standards ;-)  debian I gave up on years ago.
<sladen> Arc: if there's an issue in the Debian package, fix it---and static copies *are not allowed*
<Laney> I hope you don't find much support for that here
<Laney> you should fix it in Debian
<Arc> then we won't be able to package
<sladen> *blink*
<Arc> until they stop building it with non-default upstream flags it's unusable
<fcuk112_> packaging a new upstream release, some patches are still applicable but the line numbers of the changes have changed; do i need to recreate those patches or is quilt smart enough to locate the correct section of code in the file?
<Arc> ode-config --cflags
<Arc> -I/usr/include -DdDOUBLE
<Arc> double precision is non-default and too slow for games, it's only recommended for scientific applications
<sladen> Arc: you mean the software you're using is badly written and relies on hard-coded floating point lengths--and is probably going to fail with endian issues too?
<Arc> sladen: no I mean that double precision is too slow so we don't support it.
<sladen> fcuk112_: fix the patches so that they reliably apply cleanly
<sladen> Arc: so it's got *nothing* to do with packing, merely a (likely misguided) belief and 32-bit floats are going to be faster
<sladen> packaging
<sladen> s/and/that/
<fcuk112_> sladen: ok, thanks.
<Arc> you believe that double is as fast as float?
<sladen> Arc: ever heard of the phrase "premature optimization"
<Arc> sladen: you're a debian packager aren't you?
 * adama looks at sladen 
<sladen> Arc: Ubuntu *is* Debian;  I think you'll find quite an overlap, and a strive to fix issues at the source
<Arc> the hubris has exposed you :-P
<sladen> what's the piece of software in question?
<Arc> no, Ubuntu is not Debian.  Ubuntu is a separate and distinct project which builds up from Debian
<Arc> libode1 and libode-dev are in question
<adama> Arc: in much the same way that a steak *IS* beef? :>
<Laney> we are universe and universe is debian
<Arc> that's a disappointing viewpoint.
<sladen> standing on the shoulders of giants is how technological advances are made is realistic amounts of time
<sladen> everyone is free to re-invent the wheel, but clever people try not to
<Arc> Ubuntu standing on Debian's shoulders != (Ubuntu == Debian)
<sladen> Arc: so what's the broken piece of software that you're trying to link against libode?
<Arc> anyways, back to real work
<Arc> this issue will obviously have to wait until MOTU is disbanded
<sladen> Arc: if I invent something, and then invent an improved version, who's shoulders am I standing on?
<sladen> anyone know who "Arc" was---seems an interesting bit of outreach to follow-up on, even if we scared them away
<Laney> he seems to still be connected
<Laney> seems like a disappointing viewpoint
<StevenK> \sh: So, do we want fai back in the archive? It was removed from Karmic, but it wasn't blacklisted
<fabrice_sp> emgent, what happened with bug 279755 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279755 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] remastersys" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279755
<fcuk112_> http://www.pastie.org/706305 when i do a test install of the deb, it fails because of the depencies, but the dependencies are specified in the debian/control file - what is wrong here?
<Laney> fcuk112_: dpkg doesn't install dependencies
<Laney> do apt-get -f install
<fcuk112_> Laney: ok, thanks.
<fabrice_sp> or use gdebi
<fabrice_sp> porthose_ ?
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: is it true, that new packages in Debian will sync automatically into lucid until end of DebianImportFreeze?
<ari-tczew> no new versions, but new packages
<fabrice_sp> yes
<fabrice_sp> *gone
<StevenK> ScottK: Here?
<ScottK> StevenK: Yes.
<StevenK> ScottK: Is it worthwhile autosyncing boost1.39 from Debian?
<ajmitch> no
<ScottK> StevenK: We can't sync boost due to Python differences and we'd drop it anyway.  I'd say no.
<StevenK> Okay, I'll kick it from the current run. Shall I blacklist it too?
<ajmitch> boost1.40 is being fixed in debian to sort similar python issues so might be syncable in the near future
<StevenK> Well, when I say blacklist I mean boost1.39
<ajmitch> I think 1.39 will disappear soon enough, but I think there are apps that may still need fixed to work with a newer version, sadly
<StevenK> Meh, blacklisting is cheap
<ajmitch> there's a removal request for boost1.39 in debian, so probably blacklist for now
<StevenK> Heh, right
 * ajmitch wishes the BTS would hurry up & show me the bug
<StevenK> No bug for you
<ajmitch> :(
<ajmitch> and there it goes
<ajmitch> just looking up http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=556924 for your viewing pleasure
<ubottu> Debian bug 556924 in boost1.40 "boost1.40: FTBFS without Python 2.4" [Important,Open]
<porthose_> fabrice_sp, I left a comment on bug #484678.  Please have a look when you have time.  ty :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484678 in ampache-themes "Sync ampache-themes 3.4.3-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484678
<fabrice_sp> porthose_, I saw.. But isn't it worth syncing now, to get autosync after?
<fabrice_sp> thanks for your comment, by the way
<fabrice_sp> some archive admin: what about bug 483813?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 483813 in schroot "Sync schroot 1.3.1-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/483813
<fabrice_sp> experimental is allowed?
<ajmitch> allowed, but some explanation is usually appreciated I think
<ajmitch> I don't know where the current schroot is from (and I'm not an archive admin) :)
<fabrice_sp> testing, IIRC
<fabrice_sp> !info schroot | karmic
<ubottu> karmic: schroot (source: schroot): Execute commands in a chroot environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.3-1 (karmic), package size 685 kB, installed size 1948 kB
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Syncing from experimental particularly needs justification for Lucid since we are by default taking from Testing and not Unstable.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, ok. I'll request justifications in the sync request then. Thanks!
<etaliverto> Hi all, I'm trying to make a package, but I'm having trouble with the debuild stage - it's failing with "secret key not available". I've set my key in devscripts.conf so I'm rather lost....
<fabrice_sp> etaliverto, this error does not prevent your pacakge to be built
<etaliverto> Any pointers for troubleshooting would be much appreciated. I'm new to this, been following the wiki but I've ended up with four keys in my secring.gpg so I'm not sure I did everything right.
<etaliverto> â¢fabrice_spâ¢ Thanks - can I upload it to REVU unsigned though? I was trying to update an existing package for a bug report.
<av`> etaliverto, use -k flag
<fabrice_sp> ohh. For REVU, it has to be signed
<etaliverto> â¢av`â¢ OK, thanks, I'll try with the flag....
<av`> etaliverto, use -kKEYID
<fabrice_sp> etaliverto, also, what is your changelog entry?
<etaliverto> I made the changelog with dch -i, it gives my name and email address on the last line - they're the same ones as used when I made the GPG key
<etaliverto> â¢av`â¢ It works with the -k flag, thanks!
<av`> etaliverto, np ;)
<etaliverto> Any idea why it doesn't work through debuild though?
<maco> jdong: motu sru? Bug #369818
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369818 in gnome-commander "Incorrect sorting by size in panel" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369818
<sproaty> hi, I've created a needs-packaging bug, assigned it myself, but how do I "upload it to revu"
<lucas> if the only ubuntu diff is "add lpia to supported archs", is it worth doing the merge, or can I sync?
<lucas> lpia is going away for lucid, right?
<StevenK> lucas: Sync!
<lucas> thanks
<sproaty> ah boo, gotta upload to revu from my linux box
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-20
<fcuk112> when updating a patch in a merge where the patch is still valid but the line numbers have changed, can you just change the line numbers instead of doing the patch from scratch?
<lfaraone> Hey, my build is failing with "dpkg-shlibdeps: error: no dependency information found for /usr/local/lib/libgtksheet-x11-2.0.so.0 (used by debian/python-gtksheet/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gtk-2.0/gtksheet/_gtksheetmodule.so).". How can I either A) ignore the error, or B) add deps?
<ajmitch> first thing would be to fix it so that it doesn't go into /usr/local/lib :)
<fcuk112> lfaraone: i had a similar error, i fixed it by adding export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=xxx to my .pbuilderrc.
<ajmitch> that really doesn't sound like the right fix
<fcuk112> where xxx is a local path where it can find the missing dep.
<fcuk112> no? :(
<ajmitch> for example in lfaraone's problem - there really shouldn't be a library at /usr/local/lib/libgtksheet-x11-2.0.so.0 - it means that it's been installed into the wrong location
<lfaraone> ajmitch: I think that's a local lib I installed when I first tried out the upstream source.
<ajmitch> you should build inside pbuilder or sbuild
<lfaraone> ajmitch: I should.
<lfaraone> ajmitch: right now this is just for a quick, internal-use deb, but eventually I hope to get it into the archives.
<ajmitch> it helps a lot just to make sure you get a clean build - some things can be hidden by having the files from a previous build around
<lfaraone> ajmitch: main issue is I can't figure out all the packages whcih this package depends upon.
<ajmitch> that's the fun part :)
<ajmitch> figuring out build-depends can be annoying, reading configure.ac to get an idea of what packages are used will give you a hint at least
<ajmitch> as will seeing configure fail
<lfaraone> ajmitch: but since pdebuild starts clean every time, it can be a very lengthly process. (since I have to download archives, etc)
<ajmitch> caching the downloaded packages helps
<ajmitch> pbuilder should be setup to do that, it grabs a copy of packages that are used & stores them
<lfaraone> ajmitch: it doesn't seem to be on my system.
<ajmitch> in my pbuilder config I have:
<ajmitch> APTCACHE="/home/ajmitch/debian/pbuilder/aptcache-${DISTRIBUTION}/"
<ajmitch> APTCACHEHARDLINK="yes"
<ajmitch> so it stores them there, you may want to check ~/.pbuilderrc or wherever you have your config file
<ajmitch> it's a welcome feature when you're rebuilding a package for the 10th time
<EzraR> thats not a bad idea
<EzraR> and have cron delete it once a day or week or something
<EzraR> so it doesnt get too big
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, there?
<fabrice_sp> np: I'll answer in bug #485581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 485581 in le "Please merge le (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/485581
<StevenK> The pub, like any good sysadmins
<StevenK> Bah, stupid lag
<\sh> moins
<ashiswin> umm
<ashiswin> hello
<ashiswin> can someone who has done OS development pleeease pm me
<ashiswin> urgently
<ashiswin> hello
<ashiswin> can someone who has done OS development pleeease pm me
<ashiswin> urgently
<slytherin> ashiswin: it will be better if you ask specific questions
<directhex> slytherin, he wants someone to teach him how to write an os from scratch, iirc. kernel, userland, driver model, etc
<directhex> slytherin, given the increased urgency, i smell homework
<slytherin> directhex: A homework about writing OS form start?
<directhex> oh i dunno. maybe just writing about os design? something like that
<LucidFox> o_O
<LucidFox> An upstream's reply to a request to add the text of the GPL to the tarball:
<LucidFox> "Currently i'm very busy and leaving my home, so i have not the time to republish but you can add this file for your package."
<hyperair> win
<LucidFox> He promised he'll add it in the next release, though.
<hyperair> well that's nice
<hyperair> but many upstreams are seem to not care much for specifying the license. like it's a hassle and just an extra thing that's not really necessary
<LucidFox> Sadly, yes.
<LucidFox> They're more interested in development than legal issues. :)
<LucidFox> Hmm.
<LucidFox> I've started checking qdvdauthor's copyrights, and I noticed that most of its headers don't contain the standard GPL header, but just "License : GPL v 2.0".
<LucidFox> And name of author, etc. Is it allowed?
<siretart`> the GPL has recommendations in a section "HOW TO APPLY THE GPL"
<siretart`> unfortunately many upstreams (and I mean *many*) prefer to skip that section
<siretart`> such packages are allowed in both debian and ubuntu so far, as long there is no other indication that some files or produced binaries are licensed otherwise in an incompatible way
<siretart`> does this help?
<siretart`> LucidFox: just curious, where are you from? in what timezone do you live?
<LucidFox> Russia, UTC+6.
<LucidFox> It's 16:17 here.
<siretart`> ah, cool
<siretart`> I've just added you to the team, I'll answer your mail later, OK?
<LucidFox> Hmm, this application is GPLv2+, but uses a bundled library under LGPLv3+. Does it make the overall code GPLv3+?
<LucidFox> siretart`> Didn't Fabian already add me? :)
<maxb> LucidFox: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html has a compatibility matrix which agrees with you
<maxb> LucidFox: oh, actually, I misread it. It seems to imply it's ok to use a LGPL3 library in a GPL2+ project without relicensing the project
<maxb> Presumably because the potential to relicense the project is enshrined by the GPL2+ licensing
<siretart`> LucidFox: no idea who was faster :-)
<LucidFox> Oh, Thunderbird 3 has a "reply list" button now. Nifty.
<slytherin> LucidFox: What is purpose of that button?
<LucidFox> Replying to the mailing list, as opposed to the sender.
<slytherin> LucidFox: Ideally it should be handled by list admins. Many lists set 'Reply-To' to blank.
<LucidFox> Ah
<hyperair> the lists.ubuntu.com lists usually don't set reply-to
<LucidFox> I constantly get "gzip: stdout: Broken pipe" errors with pbuilder-dist, but not on every build attempt.
<LucidFox> What's going on?
<\sh> LucidFox, disk space eventually?
<LucidFox> I have more than enough disk space on every partition.
<\sh> hmm
<rowinggolfer> I'm hoping someone can clear up some confusion I have with putting an app into my ppa. I push sources which specify the target as intrepid.  I then copy those packages into Hardy, Jaunty, Karmic and Lucid. Is that correct?
<rowinggolfer> I wonder if my sources should specify a different target.
<tsimpson> rowinggolfer: as long as you choose to only copy the source (and not binaries), that should work
<tsimpson> hmm, maybe not actually. LP doesn't work like that..
<rowinggolfer> no. if I choose "rebuild packages" it rejects them
<rowinggolfer> I can copy the binaries though.
<rowinggolfer> and they install ok on all systems.
<rowinggolfer> but I don't understand the logic there.
<tsimpson> that will only be a good idea for arch all
<rowinggolfer> well it's pure python stuff...
<tsimpson> the reason LP rejects it is because it would build the packages again, against Hardy/Karmic/whatever
<tsimpson> but they'll all have the same version
<rowinggolfer> perhaps that's where I am going wrong.... specifying a target at all ?
<tsimpson> so the binaries would have the same name
<rowinggolfer> tsimpson, ok.. I follow that.
<tsimpson> if the package has no binary parts, then you should upload with Architecture: all
<rowinggolfer> I have automated the entire process, except this "copy packages bit"
<rowinggolfer> tsimpson, let me check the control file. I forget what I have in there.
<tsimpson> the way I do it with binary packages it just change the version in the changelog to <version>~<release>1, so for example: 1.0.0-0ubuntu1~myppa~jaunty1 (for jaunty)
<tsimpson> then upload that
<rowinggolfer> ok. I'll adopt that strategy also.
<rowinggolfer> thanks. (BTW - I do have archictecture = all)
<rowinggolfer> my changelog is     openmolar (0.1.8-5rgppa) intrepid; urgency=low
<rowinggolfer> can I remove the reference to intrepid?
<rowinggolfer> and, I have to build the sources 5 times now? (hardy, intrepid, jaunty, karmic, lucid)?
<tsimpson> you need to have a series set, but you can upload to any series
<tsimpson> and you'll have to build for all the releases, yep
<rowinggolfer> tsimpson, thanks for your help.
<rowinggolfer> BTW - here's the problem in a nutshell. if you look at https://launchpad.net/~rowinggolfer/+archive/openmolar-testing
<tsimpson> https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart/FAQ#Why%20can%27t%20I%20upload%20the%20same%20version%20for%20multiple%20releases%3F
<rowinggolfer> you'll see that the intrepid version is now +0.0.1 ahead of the other series.
<rowinggolfer> tsimpson, ah.... that link look useful thanks.
<rowinggolfer> ok, I need to go ask that question.
<rowinggolfer> tsimpson, you have made my day, many, many thanks for your help.
<tsimpson> no problem :)
<rowinggolfer> tsimpson, I asked a question - https://answers.launchpad.net/soyuz/+question/91003
<tsimpson> if you want, you can poke someone in #launchpad to get on it, or just wait for an admin to do it
<rowinggolfer> tsimpson, you think I have a valid query?
<rowinggolfer> I don't want to be a pest.
<tsimpson> sure
<tsimpson> someone should be able to help you
<rowinggolfer> ok. but if I get my head bitten off, I will hunt you down for making that suggestion ;)
<mok0> what channel should I go to to see rowinggolfer getting his head bitten off?
<mok0> :-P
<rowinggolfer> #launchpad
<tsimpson> they are generally happy to help in there
<mok0> Indeed
<mok0> Not crazy, like here...
<rowinggolfer> they've banned me before :(
<rowinggolfer> no wait... that was ubuntu-uk
<mok0> rowinggolfer: perhaps it's because of your nick
<rowinggolfer> lol, probably
<mok0> :)
<fcuk112> tell me about it.
<mok0> LOL :-D
<fcuk112> i got banned from the ubuntu release party channel :P
<rowinggolfer> fcuk112, because of the obvious typo in your nick?
<mok0> fcuk112: Uhm, what country? Probably they couldn't spell
<mok0> ehehe
<rowinggolfer> fcuk112, rhymes with chuck_ ??
<StevenK> fcuk is also "French Connection, United Kingdom"
<fcuk112> i'm Frank Cheung and i'm in the UK :)
<rowinggolfer> and you are one hundred and twelve?
<fcuk112> nah it's an rnb group i used to like; some websites need more than 4 chars so i had to append something...
<mok0> fcuk112: be thankful your not "Frank Updike" from Cook Islands...
<mok0> you're, damn it
<AnAnt> LucidFox: tl2009 PPA is (hopefully) fixed
<LucidFox> AnAnt> Great, let's update and install...
<JontheEchidna> Is AutoSync doing new-upstream-in-debian syncs this cycle?
<slytherin> JontheEchidna: Sure why not. Only it is from testing instead of unstable as usual.
<JontheEchidna> oh, that package I was keeping any eye on did finally get synced
<JontheEchidna> But I guess it's not doing automatic removals when it's removed in Debian?
<slytherin> JontheEchidna: removals are not automatic. Usually archive admins keep an eye on removals from Debian and do similar in Ubuntu.
<LucidFox> Okay. Whether it's the fault of Compiz, the NVIDIA drivers or Wine, it's an unwieldy combination in Karmic.
<JontheEchidna> It all looked automatic in the past. I guess it just shows to go how good our archive admins are if they look automatic ;-)
<LucidFox> Exiting WoW shouldn't crash X and leave Compiz running and eating 100% CPU time.
 * JontheEchidna wonders why qlandkartgt and garmindev have not been synced, as they have been in testing for 2 months.
<slytherin> JontheEchidna: do they have any ubuntu changes in previous releases?
<mok0> JontheEchidna: you're an OSM'er ?
<slytherin> JontheEchidna: did you look up on MoM?
<JontheEchidna> slytherin: they're new packages
<slytherin> then I have no idea.
<JontheEchidna> mok0: Open Street Maps? Nope, just looking out for Qt-related packages ;-)
<JontheEchidna> Basically, qlandkarte got removed and was replaced by the qlandkartegt and garmindev packages
<JontheEchidna> From the looks nobody ever touched it in Ubuntu, and now qlandkarte is on the removed packages list on multidistrotools. I suppose I'll file a few sync/removal bugs.
<JontheEchidna> Just didn't know how LTS was affecting these sort of things
<JontheEchidna> But it looks like this is just the odd duckling here
<mok0> JontheEchidna: I don't really understand how new packages in Debian are treated either. Allegedly they are auto-imported, but I've often seen that not being the case
<mok0> JontheEchidna: I for one would really apprecialte qlandkartegt coming into lucid
<StevenK> mok0: Then file a bug!
<JontheEchidna> bug 485840 and bug 485842
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 485840 in ubuntu "Sync garmindev 0.3.0-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/485840
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 485842 in ubuntu "Sync qlandkartegt 0.15.1-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/485842
<StevenK> mok0: Rather than complaining that something doesn't get done!
<JontheEchidna> too late ;-)
<StevenK> JontheEchidna: Sigh
<StevenK> JontheEchidna: You do realise that both of those are going to get done in the process of new-source I'm doing today
<JontheEchidna> Actually, I did not; which is wahat the conversation we had right before this was about. :x
<jldupont> sorry guys, newbie to Debian packaging here:  where is the page where the correct format to `changelog` file ?
<JontheEchidna> Sorry for the inconvenience
<jldupont> i keep having `debuild` crash on me because of `changelog` formatting errors
<StevenK> jldupont: Use 'dch'
<jldupont> dch shows me the same error messages... the trouble: I can't figure out what's wrong.
<jldupont> looking at http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html seems to be fine
<jldupont> It says: no maintainer in changelog!
<jldupont> `-- Jean-Lou Dupont <jl@jldupont.com> Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:44:00 -0500`
<jldupont> what's wrong ??
<JontheEchidna> I think there should be two spaces between the email end and the date
<JontheEchidna> StevenK: if it will make it up, I can keep an eye on those two packages and close the bugs myself
<jldupont> JontheEchidna: change it to no avail
<JontheEchidna> hmm... one space before the -- at the beginning?
<jldupont> YEAH!
<jldupont> thanks Jonthe
<JontheEchidna> no prob
<jldupont> really picky this dch...
<jldupont> what's the `source` field in `control` file?
<StevenK> jldupont: It is the source package name
<jldupont> but I thought this was the `Package` field...
<jldupont> FYI: I am building my own PPA... i.e. not a remix
<jldupont> so what should I put in `source` ?
<StevenK> No, the Package field is the *binary* package name
<StevenK> You have one source package which builds one or more binary packages
<jldupont> got it!  Thanks!
<rowinggolfer> jldupont, here's a working example http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rowinggolfer/openmolar/trunk/annotate/head%3A/debian/changelog
<jldupont> rowinggolfer: thanks!!
<rowinggolfer> np
<rowinggolfer> launchpad is smokin' quick to build stuff today :)
<jldupont> In Synaptics, let's say I have a package "erlang, installed version --> 1:12.b.5-dfsg-2 ", I do write this dependencies in debian/control ?
<jldupont> erlang (>=12.b.5) ?
<jldupont> anyone?
<\sh> erlang (>=1:12.b.5)
<jldupont> thanks
<mok0> DktrKranz: Do you have and init.d script to start debomatic?
<mok0> s/and/an
<EzraR> is it a problem if the upstream source code doesnt have a copyright header in every source file? (for a new package in revu)
<DktrKranz> mok0: starting from 0.7, yes
<DktrKranz> and in trunk, of course
<directhex> EzraR, what percentage, roughly, is missing it?
<directhex> EzraR, there's a general gut feeling of "a few missing is no big deal" amongst archive admins afaik
<mok0> DktrKranz: ah, ok I just apt-get'ted it in karmic
<mok0> apt-got perhaps?
<mok0> DktrKranz: I would also suggest that the conffile had a default value, e.g. "/etc/debomatic/debomatic.conf"
<DktrKranz> mok0: it should already have
<mok0> DktrKranz: OK, great! I'm still looking at the karmic version...
<mok0> DktrKranz: maybe we should get the most recent version backported :-)
<jldupont> what's the field "Standards-Version" ?
<jldupont> in debian/control
<mok0> jldupont: the version of the most recent Debian Policy Manual
<mok0> 3.8.3
<jldupont> cool. thanks.
<DktrKranz> mok0: probably, it shouldn't be that hard. I also plan to release new upstream when some more features have landed (commands files, l10n support, and probably some mail notificcations)
<DktrKranz> the first two are already available in trunk for testing
<mok0> DktrKranz: cool
<mok0> DktrKranz: I should probably grab that branch then
<DktrKranz> commands files are cute, thus not popular in Ubuntu, but very useful in Debian
<mok0> DktrKranz: what do you mean?
<jldupont> in debian/rules:  what should put in there : my package has a couple a Erlang files and  a couple of .cc files.  What do I need to do in debian/rules ?
<StevenK> And no, the Standards-Version field is showing which version of the Debian policy the package conforms to!
<mok0> jldupont: Issue the commands that builds the program... but it's a makefile, remember that
<StevenK> It also requires a few targets exist since external tools will call them
<jldupont> E: erlang-dbus source: debian-rules-missing-required-target binary
<jldupont> E: erlang-dbus source: debian-rules-missing-required-target binary-arch
<jldupont> E: erlang-dbus source: debian-rules-missing-required-target binary-indep
<jldupont> E: erlang-dbus source: debian-rules-missing-required-target build
<jldupont> E: erlang-dbus source: debian-rules-missing-required-target clean
<jldupont> those I guess\
<mok0> jldupont: Look in the wiki. This question is too basic to answer here.
<mok0> jldupont: In other words, we can help, but we can't teach you how to package stuff
<jldupont> ok, I'll try to refrain from too basic questions... but then, it is not obvious to define "too basic" ...
<EzraR> directhex: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/report.py/legal?upid=7017
<StevenK> It also requires a few targets exist since external tools will call them
<DktrKranz> mok0: see ftp://ftp-master.debian.org/pub/UploadQueue/README
<mok0> jldupont: You need to read the wiki and take it from there. If you have specific questions, we are happy to help. It's just that "teach me how to package" ... no one will bite
<mok0> DktrKranz: thx
<mok0> DktrKranz: ah, yes I see what you mean now
<DktrKranz> debomatic currently handles "rm" case, it has no mv (useless, since it hasn't delayed queues)
<jldupont> just a link to a debian/rules file, pretty please?  This one (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rowinggolfer/openmolar/trunk/annotate/head:/debian/rules) calls for a dependency that I am not sure I want.
<mok0> jldupont: you mean python etc.?
<mok0> jldupont: try deleting it
<jldupont> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<jldupont> deleting it... no more makefile... there is nothing in there
<mok0> jldupont: that you almost certainly need
<StevenK> debhelper 7 would be nicer
<mok0> jldupont: ^^^ see StevenK's comment
<mok0> StevenK: (even though I don't agree) :-)
<jldupont> hmmm. let me man debhelper 7
<jldupont> ... then what's "cdbs" for?
<mok0> jldupont: it's just another system to do the same... cdbs is a set of GNU make macros
<mok0> jldupont: it's man dh
<StevenK> mok0: You prefer debugging cdbs?
<mok0> StevenK: yes
<mok0> StevenK: anything but evil perl
<StevenK> mok0: Everytime I've had to do that, I've had to read the cdbs source code, which is horrid
<jldupont> man dh ... Diffie-Hellman ... I don't think so.
<mok0> StevenK: Hm, yeah, well I know it pretty well by now
<mok0> jldupont: huh?
<StevenK> jldupont: Do you have the 'debhelper' package installed?
<jldupont> got it now.... a google search "man dh" isn't helpful... lesson learned
<mok0> jldupont: In the Examples section is a 3-line makefile template that you can use as debian/rules
<jldupont> mok0: thanks!
<mok0> jldupont: don't forget the tab character in the makefile if you cut'n'paste
<mok0> jldupont: probably your old cdbs rules file failed because you didn't have debhelper installed
<jldupont> ?old cdbs?  First time around with debhelper... so no "old" stuff ;-)
<jldupont> dh_clean: Compatibility levels before 5 are deprecated.
<StevenK> echo 7 > debian/compat
<jldupont> what do I do with "W: erlang-dbus source: debhelper-but-no-misc-depends erlang-dbus"
<StevenK> jldupont: lintian -v is your friend
<jldupont> ok... let me do "lintian"
<mok0> StevenK: If you have a package in an bzr branch on LP, is there a way to submit a command: "build this package" (without having to upload)? I know the answer is probably "no" so this is more a retorical question I guess :-)
<StevenK> mok0: Not at this point, no
<mok0> StevenK: ... but it's a good idea, don't you think?
<geser> mok0: not yet, but the LP devs are working on it (BuildFromBranch should be the correct keyword there)
<mok0> geser: cool
<jldupont> I added "${misc-Depends}: debhelper (>= 7)" to debian/control and debuild still complains with "W: erlang-dbus source: debhelper-but-no-misc-depends erlang-dbus"
<jldupont> I am not getting "http://lintian.debian.org/tags/debhelper-but-no-misc-depends.html"
<StevenK> Then read what lintain -v says, like I said before
<geser> mok0: see https://dev.launchpad.net/BuildBranchToArchive for the spec
<mok0> jldupont: hint: the ${...} is expanded
<mok0> geser: thx
 * mok0 looks
<randomaction> jldupont: use "Depends: <your dependencies>, ${misc:Depends}"
<jldupont> mok0: my bad... thanks again again!
<EzraR> if in a package I had a config file in the debian dir that gets installed with a .install what would be the proper way to set the perms to 600
<randomaction> and it's lintian -i, not -v
<EzraR> seems that dh_fixperms is only able to exclude files
<mok0> EzraR: you need to make sure the file has perms 600 before it's packed into the deb
<jldupont> randomaction: thanks!
<EzraR> mok0: and then have dh_fixperms exclude it?
<mok0> EzraR: I don't think dh_fixperms will hurt it
<mok0> EzraR: it will only fix obvious perm errors
<mok0> EzraR: like +x on regular files etc
<EzraR> mok0: ok, thnx
<jldupont> success !!! THANKS TO ALL!
<mok0> jldupont: :)
<StevenK> randomaction: Oh, blah!
<hyperair> dtchen: are pulseaudio's sinks/sources guaranteed to be numbered the same way after a suspend/resume cycle?
<hyperair> dtchen: and regarding the changes you've made in lp #404986, are you sure it didn't reopen the bug the 01Pulseaudio pm-utils sleep.d hook script was originally supposed to fix?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404986 in pulseaudio "Audio hangs in ugly loop for 1 sec at S3 suspend" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404986
<jldupont> after dput, I get "Not running dinstall" ... what does this mean?
<StevenK> jldupont: It can be ignored
<jldupont> ok
<jldupont> I got an error report from Launchpad "Unable to find distroseries: stable" what do I do?
<StevenK> Change your changelog so it doesn't say stable, but the distro you want to build it for
<mok0> jldupont: in debian/changelog, choose an Ubuntu distro (e.g. karmic)
<jldupont> e.g. erlang-dbus (0.3) jaunty; urgency=low
<jldupont> is this correct?
<StevenK> jldupont: Looks good
<mok0> jldupont: looks that way, there must be 2 spaces before "jaunty"
<mok0> I guess Debian originally used FORTRAN to parse changelog
<jldupont> cool!  now, I just have to wait 2minutes for launchpad...
<StevenK> mok0: Oh, hardy har har
<mok0> StevenK: you caught it, good :-)
<geser> FYI: the UDS session about the "future" of MOTU starts soon
<mok0> geser: is someone typing it up on IRC?
<randomaction> #ubuntu-uds-waverly has a link to audio
<geser> there is a channel for this room
<geser> exactly that one
<mok0> Thanks
<mok0> Will rejoin in a little while
<ScottK> Future of MOTU UDS session in #ubuntu-uds-waverly
<ScottK> Starting now.
<jldupont> Accepted by launchpad!  thanks to all!
<jldupont> on LaunchPad, next to my package I see "Pending (2505)"  is the 2505 the number of packages waiting in the queue or some status code?
<StevenK> jldupont: It is a score
<jldupont> a score? related to how my package is formatted/complex to process?
<jldupont> can I have an ETA somewhere?  Or I just have to wait??
<randomaction> jldupont: https://launchpad.net/builders
<jldupont> randomaction: cool!  thanks!
<slytherin> What is the usual convention for SRU versions? The SRU page on wiki is not very clear about it.
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, did you had a look at the security one?
<fabrice_sp> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update%20the%20packaging
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: Yes I did but I thought it applied to only security updates. Also some packages have this weird ubuntux.9.04.y versioning.
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, I've been using it for SRU also.  This versioning is not only for backporting?
<slytherin> ok I will use ubuntux.y
 * slytherin wonders why the heck PPA do not accept -proposed packages.
<jldupont> my package in my PPA is taking forever to build... is there a way to "emulate" the build process locally so I'll know (maybe) what to expect?
<fabrice_sp> !pbuilder | jldupont
<ubottu> jldupont: pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<fabrice_sp> also
<fabrice_sp> !sbuild | jldupont
<ubottu> jldupont: sbuild is a system to easily build packages in a clean schroot environment.  To get started with SBuild, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<jldupont> cool! thanks!
<fabrice_sp> pbuilder is easier to set up
<fabrice_sp> yw :-)
<slytherin> pbuilder is easier to setup but sbuild is closest to the build servers environment.
 * fabrice_sp is using sbuild :-)
 * slytherin wants to learn sbuild
 * StevenK uses sbuild too
<fabrice_sp> you only need to setup a LVM :-)
<cyphermox> fabrice_sp, is the LVM requirement the only difference with pbuilder?
<slytherin> cyphermox: from what I have heard sbuild is fast.
<fabrice_sp> cyphermox, they are both using a kind of 'clean' chroot. The difference is that sbuild clone a partition, when pbuilder uses a chroot
<fabrice_sp> sbuild is fast if you use a cache tool :-)
<fabrice_sp> you have to setup one with sbuild, but it comes automatically with pbuilder
<fabrice_sp> (I'm using apt-cacher-ng for that)
<cyphermox> fabrice_sp, what I mean is that when someone says "closest to the buildds", it means that it has to do with the fact that it's cloning partitions, not that there is an actual difference in resulting package, no?
<fabrice_sp> cyphermox, I only saw one or two packages that didn't built in sbuild but built in pbuilder, so for the general use, it's good enough :-)
<slytherin> cyphermox: not in resulting package but in build process.
<slytherin> cyphermox: for example if you specify alternate build-deps (a | b), sbuild always uses first whereas pbuilder will use the one that is available.
<slytherin> I had trouble with packages that built fine in pbuilder and then failed to build on server because of such issues.
<cyphermox> ah, that's kind of an interesting difference, yes
<fabrice_sp> interesting
 * slytherin has to leave for some time.
<jldupont> ok, i've do sudo pbuilder create... what next?
<fabrice_sp> sudo pbuilder build <package.dsc>
<jldupont> "W: /home/jldupont/.pbuilderrc does not exist"
<StevenK> sbuild -A -d <release> <package.dsc> :-P
<av`> fabrice_sp, when you upload something please make sure to forward any patch to Debian please
<av`> fabrice_sp, I saw your sponsorship upload of agg
<cyphermox> StevenK, pbuilder-dist <release> <package.dsc> ;)
<fabrice_sp> as we will 'kill' lpia, is it worth merging a package by adding just lpia support?
<av`> fabrice_sp, and I've just uploaded a revision that removes any delta, so we can sync now ;)
<av`> fabrice_sp, no
<fabrice_sp> av`, I thought Arthur was in touch with you about that
<av`> fabrice_sp, sync it
<fabrice_sp> ok
<cyphermox> gah, i err
<av`> fabrice_sp, he said something to me about that, but I forgot to upload a fixed package to Debian
<fabrice_sp> av`, do you want me to open the sync request for agg?
<av`> fabrice_sp, that's why opening a bug into the Debian's BTS is usually nice
<fabrice_sp> yeah: that's what I usually tell to people opening merge request
<fabrice_sp> I just made an exception in that case (tht I shouldn't have done, obviouslly)
<av`> fabrice_sp, it has been uploaded like 3 minutes ago, so let's wait it gets built
<av`> fabrice_sp, then you can open the request
<av`> fabrice_sp, thanks for taking care about it though :)
<fabrice_sp> I'll wait until it lands in testing then
<av`> perfect, thanks!
<fabrice_sp> yw :-)
<fcuk112> is there a guide for how to use sbuild?
<jldupont> help!  "Current status: 0 broken [-1].
<jldupont> Aptitude couldn't satisfy the build dependencies
<jldupont> E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
<jldupont> "
<jldupont> what do I do about "Remove the following packages:
<jldupont> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy"
<cyphermox> jldupont, what command were you running that wrote these messages?
<jldupont> "sudo pbuilder build erlang-dbus_0.3.dsc"
<cyphermox> jldupont, could you paste the full output in a pastebin (paste.ubuntu.com) and provide the url?
<jldupont> http://pastebin.com/m614b270f
<jldupont> cyphermox: could it be because I have messed up the erlang dependency?
<cyphermox> jldupont, yes, trying to figure out what in it is wrong.
<jldupont> I've looked what I have installed on my mahcine: Synaptic says "1:12.b.5-dfsg-2"
<cyphermox> jldupont, could it be that you need erlang-dev or erlang-base rather than just erlang?
<EzraR> jldupont: pbuilder is not the same as your mahcine
<jldupont> I'll try adding -dev and -base and see... pbuilder complains about "erlang" just being a virtual package... could that be it?
<cyphermox> it's your clue that something is wrong in that build-dep
<jldupont> "The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<jldupont>   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: erlang-dev (>= 1:12.b.5) which is a virtual package.
<jldupont>                                  Depends: erlang-base (>= 1:12.b.5) which is a virtual package.
<jldupont> The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
<jldupont> Remove the following packages:
<jldupont> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy
<jldupont> "
<jldupont> ?????
<EzraR> jldupont: if you have a hard time with depends this script might help tell you what the app uses
<EzraR> http://pastebin.com/m3896bcb
<cyphermox> jldupont, 12.b.5, that's Jaunty
<cyphermox> no?
<jldupont> I am on jaunty.
<cyphermox> ok, and you're building the package for Jaunty too?
<jldupont> yes
<cyphermox> jldupont, I think the issue is that pbuilder is not going to get the packages from universe, only main
<jldupont> cyphermox: makes sense... how do I correct this?
<cyphermox> hold on a second
<cyphermox> jldupont, see here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Universe%20support
<cyphermox> jldupont, the PbuilderHowto page gives you a lot of other useful tricks, too
<cyphermox> back in a minute...
<fcuk112> in a patch file, what does an entry like @@ -227,7 +233,7 @@ mean?  i know it's supposed to start at line 227.
<fcuk112> another one looks like this @@ -190,14 +190,20 @@ - i am not sure why sometimes the x in x,y stays the same and sometimes not.
<fcuk112> this is quilt btw.
<jdong> fcuk112: probably easier to consult the documentation on the unified diff format :)
<jdong> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diff#Unified_format looks decent
<cyphermox> jldupont, any luck?
<jldupont> cyphermox: yes I am much further along THANKS.  The problem is "universe" was missing for Erlang.
<cyphermox> jldupont, awesome. have fun packaging :)
<fcuk112> jdong, thanks.
<jldupont> I still have a couple of kinks to work out though ;-)
<jldupont> cyphermox: let's say my package depends on some other package in my PPA for building, how do I specify this?
<jldupont> ... and how do I make sure that Launchpad picks this up?
<cyphermox> if you upload your new package to the same PPA, it just works.
<jldupont> so Launchpad includes by default my PPA packages when building?
<cyphermox> IIRC, yes
<jldupont> IIRC ?
<cyphermox> if i recall correctly
<jldupont> ok
<jldupont> what about when I use pbuilder?  option in .pbuildrrc I guesS?
<cyphermox> jldupont, yes. You should take a look at the pbuilder manual (http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/software/pbuilder-doc/pbuilder-doc.html) , but essentially, it's the  --othermirror switch,
<jldupont> cool
<maxb> This does, of course, require that your dependency packages are in an actual indexed apt repository
<maxb> lp:~maxb/+junk/apt-generate has the script I use to achieve this
<mrooney> hey, I'm using equivs-build to make a metapackage, but I'm not sure how use this with dput. any tips on how to create the .changes  / upload it?
<jldupont> in debian/rules,  for the "install" target, should I be using something like $PREFIX as install prefix?
<jldupont> cyphermox ?
<nixjunki3> When you are packaging an application what do you do if you are unsure of the copyright dates
<cyphermox> jldupont, yeah, put my name in front of the line if you want me to see your messages :)
<jldupont> when pbuilder builds stuff,
<jldupont> what is the environment variable does it use to tell where to install stuff?
<jldupont> in http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html, I see "$(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/testpack install" but I am not quite sure what to make of it...
<cyphermox> jldupont, it's exactly that
<cyphermox> DESTDIR specifies to make install where to drop the files
<cyphermox> (where the tree starts, instead of / )
<jldupont> so I need to use $(CURDIR) or else everything is going to fall apart with pbuilder / launchpad?
<cyphermox> jldupont, $(CURDIR) is a variable that will resolve to your current directory where the build is going on (the base of the source tree)
<jldupont> but when I finally have apt-get install my package, I want files to be dropped in /usr
<jldupont> I am confused... please help!
<cyphermox> jldupont, DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/<your binary package> should do what you want -- create a tree under <your source base directory>/debian/<name of your binary package>
<cyphermox> jldupont, make install doesn't do that by itself?
<jldupont> when I use pbuilder, it invokes my makefile... and my "install" target tries to copy stuff in /usr ... and pbuilder barks.
<jldupont> cp: cannot create regular file `/usr/bin/epapi_loop_drv_debug': Permission denied
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> jldupont, and in the end, you want `/usr/bin/epapi_loop_drv_debug' to be the file installed by your package?
<jldupont> yes
<cyphermox> ok
<fcuk112> trying to fix a patch which fails at hunk #77 in pbuilder - how do i find out what hunk #77 is?  it's quite a big patch with lots of translations: http://www.pastie.org/708127
<jldupont> I guess I am thinking one step ahead here...
<cyphermox> jldupon, then yes, $(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/<name of your binary package> will do this
<jldupont> pbuilder is building a package... right?
<jldupont> got it!
<jldupont> so my debian/rules file can't be just "#!/usr/bin/make -f
<jldupont> %:
<jldupont> 	dh $@"
<jldupont> right?
<cyphermox> jldupont, yes, it is. Roughly, pbuild installs the files in a tree starting at whatever you set DESTDIR to, and the package will install all the files under that tree, but starting at / on the destination system.
<cyphermox> jldupont, if you software can be installed by just doing ./configure, make, and make install with no special things, it probably will work
<jldupont> it is just a simple port driver library for Erlang, nothing too fancy.
<jldupont> why does pbuilder barks at "cp: cannot create regular file `/usr/bin/epapi_loop_drv_debug': Permission denied"
<cyphermox> there may be something not quite kosher in make install
<fabrice_sp> jldupont, because you can't install file in / in a pbuilder
<cyphermox> jldupont, make install usually installs files under /usr/local, I think the trick you put above depends on that case.
<fabrice_sp> you have to set whatever is the variable expected by the makefile
<fabrice_sp> to $CURDIR
<cyphermox> fabrice_sp, thanks
<fabrice_sp> cyphermox, generaly, something like that i enough: $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/<packagename>
<jldupont> have a look at http://pastebin.com/d23f1e9ec
<cyphermox> fabrice_sp, yeah :)
<jldupont> I guess I need to fit in $(CURDIR) in there or install stuff in /usr/local
<fabrice_sp> cp in a rules file?!
<jldupont> no no
<jldupont> my debian/rules is:
<fabrice_sp> ohhh
<fabrice_sp> sorry :-)
<jldupont> #!/usr/bin/make -f
<jldupont> %:
<jldupont> 	dh $@
<cyphermox> ahh I see
<fabrice_sp> Makefile is clearly buggy
<jldupont> fire when ready ;-)
<fabrice_sp> in one package similar to this one, I had to manually install files instead of using upstream's Makefile
<cyphermox> jldupont, you really should let the user decide where to put the files when installed, and/or install by default to /usr/local
<jldupont> how do I do that?
<fabrice_sp> DESTDIR is a standard variable in Makefile
<fabrice_sp> you can set it by default to /usr/local
<jldupont> so, instead of "cp lib/whateverfile /usr/lib/whateverfile"
<fabrice_sp> ohhh: jldupont  you're upstream?
<fabrice_sp> sorry about the buggy part :-)
<jldupont> what does "upstream" mean?
<fabrice_sp> "Author of the software"
<jldupont> fabrice_sp: it's quite ok, np :-)
<jldupont> Yes I am "upstream" then... it's my stuff
<fabrice_sp> :-D
<jldupont> how do I correct my makefile for the install target??
<jldupont> still, same pastebin: http://pastebin.com/d23f1e9ec
<fabrice_sp> so instead of "cp lib/whateverfile /usr/lib/whateverfile", put "cp lib/whateverfile $(DESTDIR)/whateverfile"
<fabrice_sp> and define DESTDIR to /usr/local if not defined
<fcuk112> trying to fix a patch which fails at hunk #77 in pbuilder - how do i find out what hunk #77 is?  it's quite a big patch with lots of translations: http://www.pastie.org/708127
<jldupont> oh I see.
<jldupont> let me whip something.
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, you should have a .rej file with the rejected hunk
<jldupont> you guys are on SO, right?
<fabrice_sp> SO?
<jldupont> http://stackoverflow.com/
<fabrice_sp> nop
<cyphermox> nope...
<jldupont> ... well, you could help I am sure.
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: where should i find this .rej file?
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: i have a pbuilder hook and i can't see it.
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, in the same place where the file to patch is, IIRC
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: find . -name *.rej doesn't return anything.
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, try to apply the patch manually in your source directory
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, it's CDBS?
<fcuk112> quilt
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: i tried quilt push xxx.path --trace
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: but i still cannot see any .rej file - it did fail again on hunk 77 though.
<fabrice_sp> or quilt push -a
<jldupont> fabrice_cp: so, something like: http://pastebin.com/d7418fa54
<jgoppert> i'm packaging a file that doesn't use autotools, the install doesn't install any headers because the guy is using find on src/ basically so how do i get debuild to recognize that
<jgoppert> is there a defined variable for the original source directory?
<fabrice_sp> jldupont, yes: sounds better :-D
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: quilt push -a, same result.
<fabrice_sp> jgoppert, CURDIR represent the root directory of the sourc epacakge
<jgoppert> thanks
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112,  :-/
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, quilt push -f force the patch to be applied and generate the .rej file
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: ah, thanks - that did it.  dinner time, will be back later.
<fabrice_sp> bye ;-)
<cyphermox> jldupont, does pbuilder like your Makefile better with that change in ? :)
<jldupont> cyphermox: still an issue... http://pastebin.com/d298c2001
<jldupont> > copying driver files in /tmp/buildd/epapi-0.7/debian/epapi/bin
<jldupont> cp: cannot create regular file `/tmp/buildd/epapi-0.7/debian/epapi/bin/epapi_loop_drv_debug': No such file or directory
<fabrice_sp> jldupont, what is the name of your package?
<jldupont> epapi
<cyphermox> jldupont, ohh. DESTDIR is empty... but you're missing the directories under /tmp/buildd/epapi-0.7/debian/epapi
<jldupont> hmmm.... I need to mkdir those myself????
<cyphermox> yeah, since they might not exist (for example, under /usr/local/ on a newly installed system
<cyphermox> but wait a bit
<jldupont> I feel SSSSOOOO stupid!
<cyphermox> in your Makefile, you used CURDIR rather than DESTDIR, although you just defined DESTDIR at the top
<jldupont> I just have to "mkdir -p" I guess, right?
<cyphermox> jldupont, it's not stupid, there's lots to think about all at the same time :)
<jldupont> cyphermox: thanks !
<cyphermox> jldupont, install might be better than mkdir though.. and better than cp for the files.
<jldupont> oh yes.. thanks.
<jldupont> so, install -T or ?
<cyphermox> jldupont, hold on
<cyphermox> jldupont, -D might be better suited, if you don't want to do mkdirs or install -d for the directories first
<jldupont> will try.
<jldupont> shazam!!! it works!!
<jldupont> one little complaint: dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends}
<jldupont> whre does "${misc:Depends}" go again?
<jldupont> in the "Package" section of /control ??
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> under Depends:
<jldupont> cool
<jldupont> where can I inspect what pbuilder built?
<cyphermox> jldupont, look under /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<jldupont> cyphermox: I still get "dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends}"
<jldupont> cool: /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<cyphermox> do you have a Build-Depends on debhelper?
<jldupont> Build-Depends: erlang-dev (>= 1:12.b.5), debhelper (>= 7)
<jldupont> cyphermox: any clue?
<cyphermox> jldupont, not sure
<jldupont> my complete debian/control: http://pastebin.com/d5234fc66
<jldupont> ah... maybe because I put the "Section: devel" line in...
<cyphermox> maybe it's just that debhelper has nothing to put in there
<jldupont> could it be: ${devel:Depends} ??
<jldupont> ... or I am suggesting something stupid ??
<cyphermox> nah, but I don't think there is such a thing as devel:Depends ;)
<jldupont> ... so it might just be that pbuilder resolves ${misc: Depends} to "empty string" and issues a warning, that's all.
<cyphermox> jldupont, I don't know, surely someone else in here could tell you, but I think my skills aren't at that level yet ;)
<jldupont> I'll shoot it to Launchpad and see what it has to say... I'll get the result in ~4hours though... ;-(
<cyphermox> ah, i see
<jldupont> cyphermox: what?
<cyphermox> jldupont, this is surely debianbug #498666
<cyphermox> if you have your packaging and code up somewhere, maybe I could give it a shot here to see
<jldupont> http://epapi.googlecode.com/  in /trunk
<cyphermox> didn't you say you were uploading it to your PPA?
<jldupont> yes I am uploading to PPA... I am moving stuff to LaunchPad...
<cyphermox> ok
<jldupont> but I have a "legacy" on GC...
<cyphermox> jldupont, it's dinner time over here, so i'll be out for a while, but this is interesting, i'll contact you again later :)
<jldupont> cyphermox: cool ... thanks a million!
<jldupont> I have to go get my little "monkeys" at school myself..
<cyphermox> jldupont, np. sorry if I can't always give you very clear answers, i'm still learning too :)
<jldupont> cyphermox: you rock man!
<jgoppert> hey i'm not getting anything header files in my deb but they are installing to debian/tmp and  i uncommented dh_install, says missing files /usr/include/*  ???
<jgoppert> it works if i proceed it with debian/tmp  what is going on?
<jgoppert> ls
<jgoppert> oops, sorry
<jgoppert> well i guess this works for now :-/ i hate packages that don't use automake lol
<foxmike_> 3quit
<foxmike_> #quit
<ari-tczew> any sponsor is working on main?
<lucas> james_w's distributed development stuff is so cool that I'm going to do merges again, I think ;)
<av`> ari-tczew, ??
<jgoppert> does launchpad not let you put up hardy packages? i already have some jaunty up, do i need to increment the changes file?
<av`> jgoppert, sorry?
<av`> jgoppert, you mean you are unable to upload?
<av`> e.g LP rejects
<jgoppert> it uploads fine, just doesn't show up
<av`> jgoppert, your LP ID
<jgoppert> jgoppert
<av`> jgoppert, and package name?
<jgoppert> boost-numeric-bindings, hardy version hsl1
<jgoppert> boost-numeric-bindings-20081116-hsl1 hardy
<jgoppert> i have a a boost-numeric-bindings-20081116-hsl1 under karmic, does it not like that? i'm rolling our servers back to hardy and trying to package for them
<av`> jgoppert, https://edge.launchpad.net/~jgoppert/+archive/hsl/+build/1320991
<av`> jgoppert, you uploaded it for karmic
<av`> jgoppert, or better you didnt increment the revision
<jgoppert> how do you specify that its for hardy ?
<av`> jgoppert, debian/changelog
<av`> jgoppert, targer release is set to karmic now, set it to hardy :)
<jgoppert> boost-numeric-bindings (20081116-hsl1) hardy; urgency=low
<av`> jgoppert, be sure you check all the build-depends, any dependency to be sure you can build / use it onr karmic as well
<jgoppert> not the one i just uploaded
<av`> jgoppert, use another version now since you uploaded ~hsl1 already
<jgoppert> luckily this is just a set of header files so i'm good
<av`> like ~hsl2
<av`> or whatever
<jgoppert> ok thanks
<jgoppert> so hardy and karmic cant have their own set of revision numbers?
<av`> jgoppert, actually yes, since they are two different releases
<jgoppert> ok well how do i tell dput to go to hardy ?
<jgoppert> dput http://ppa /~jgoppert/hsl/hardy ??
<av`> jgoppert, but usually the newer release should have an higher version of a package
<av`> jgoppert, no
<av`> jgoppert, you've specified it into the changelog already
<av`> jgoppert, dput ppa:whatever foo.changes
<jgoppert> yeah ok, so i guess launchpad jsut doesn't like that i'm trying to put hsl1 back up even though its under hardy and not jaunty
<av`> dput doesnt decide where to put a package (or well it does for delayed stuff on Debian)
<av`> jgoppert, yes, try another versioning
<jgoppert> thanks
<jgoppert> i'll go to hsl6 i guess
<av`> np
<av`> well, it's not the best idea to bump it from hsl1 to hsl6
<av`> but your choice :)
<jgoppert> well i've got hsl1-5 on karmic, would probably just die again if i went with hsl2
<av`> ah ok :)
<av`> select your revisions properly to avoid this issues next time
<av`> :)
<jgoppert> wait.. lol i think i just forgot to add my new opengpg key on launchpad ... doh
<av`> xD
<jgoppert> think it would have told met that upload failed though
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-21
<wgrant> It can't. It doesn't know who you are.
<jgoppert> lol great.. oh well .. glad i figured it out sooner rather than later
<LimCore> hello there
<LimCore> how to build krusader from source?  I apt-get source it,  and  neiter make  cmake    nor   automake  work
<LimCore> I want to fix a bug there quickly and then submit a patch
<LimCore> unfortunatelly Im not good with buildtools usually I just used Make or custom script always
<yofel> LimCore: first get the things you need to build it: 'sudo apt-get build-dep krusader'
<LimCore> this I did, yes
<jgoppert> going from karmic back to hardy my rules script is failing because there are no files /usr/include/* to install , i've fixed this by using debian/tmp/include/* is this typical?
<yofel> LimCore: then go into the source folder and  run 'debuild'
<yofel> LimCore: and ignore the signature errors at the end
<LimCore> ah. and it will be installed later to /usr/local/bin/ ?
<yofel> LimCore: no, it will create the package .deb in the parent folder
<yofel> LimCore: you can install the .deb then
<LimCore> how to later revert to officiall version?
<yofel> LimCore: 'sudo apt-get install krusader/karmic'
<yofel> LimCore: or 'sudo apt-get install krusader=<version>Ã
<yofel> s/Ã/'
<LimCore> lÃ³l I think you got wrong charset there
<yofel> LimCore: nope, german keyboard ;)
<jgoppert> guys is libname.install supposed to look like debian/tmp/usr/include/* ?? for hardy, was urs/include/* for karmic
<LimCore> how to give other name to "my" versions like  -my1 or something.  Also, so I will see it in  dpkg -l krusader after instailling builded .deb
<yofel> LimCore: run 'dch -i' in the source directory, it will add a new changelog entry and increase the version number
<LimCore> how to tell dbuild to use SMP? like make -j 4 etc
<jgoppert> anyone have any idea why debian/tmp has to proceed my files in libname.install ? Is that standard for hardy?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> if you use compat level 7 then you can leave it out though
<jgoppert> ok thanks Laney, hardy can only handle 6 it looks like
<jgoppert> is that the same for the dirs file?
<Laney> no
<Laney> but I bet you don't need one
<Laney> (also debhelper 7 is in hardy-backports)
<jgoppert> yeah i don't need it just thought i'd ask
<jgoppert> thanks again
<jldupont> cyphermox: are you there?
<StevenK> -c
<jldupont> Could it be that Synaptic sets $DESTDIR to "/"  when installing a package?
<jldupont> anyone?
<ScottK> jldupont: Synaptic doesn't control that.  It's built into the pacakge.
<jldupont> strange... just got my package ready from Launchpad, and it installs in /
<jldupont> so my includes end-up in /include
<jldupont> Should I check for a $DESTDIR or fix it to /usr ?
<EzraR> what would be the proper way to change the permissions a file gets installed with
<jldupont> how do we delete a package on Launchpad ???
<jldupont> found it... sorry newbie on LP
<jldupont> for building a package with a different revision # (package revision #), where do we put htis information ?
<jldupont> launchpad doesn't let me re-upload under the same version #...
<jldupont> please please help!
 * LimCore doesn't know
<jldupont> cyphermox: ?
<jldupont> ScottK: ?
<jldupont> StevenK: ?
<EzraR> you have to change the version
<EzraR> I have made a stupid spelling mistake in a control file and had to change the version
<jldupont> EzraR: I am on #launchpad getting some there... thanks.
<EzraR> so i fixed my problem of file permissions with a postinst script is that the best way though?
<maxb> EzraR: No. The way it should be done is to set the permissions right at package build time in debian/rules
<EzraR> maxb: even if it doesnt get built?
<maxb> all packages get built, otherwise they don't exist :-)
<EzraR> im talking about a config file that im installing from the debian dir
<dtchen> hyperair: they're stable. Also, while your proposed changes are fine, they really only paper over linux bugs. We *need* to fix the linux bugs.
<dtchen> hyperair: I'm also keen to not add time processing (un)muting, so really the changes ought to be made to pulse instead of in a pm-utils script. Ultimately, however, fix the damned controllers.
<maxb> EzraR: Something needs to copy it into the package, then. An idiomatic way to do so would be to use install -m0644 .... etc.
<EzraR> maxb: i used a .install so dh_install installs it
<maxb> Then you could either chmod it after dh_install has run, or remove it from the .install and use an install -m... command manually
<LucidFox> Is there any easy way to see which packages build-depend on a certain -dev package?
<StevenK> checkrdepends
<jdong> last that I've seen is a grep-dctrl incantation.
<mannyv> reverse-build-depends
<mannyv> anyone have either debian or a debian chroot installed and want to check a reverse dependency for me?
<mannyv> python-xmlbase
<mannyv> thuban has a depends on it and we have had to merge it for three releases now because the debian version still depends on python-xmlbase. I am going to try and get it removed in debian and i was wondering how many other packages still depend on it there.
<mannyv> but i dont have debian installed so i cant check =(
<LucidFox> Launchpad is down?
<hyperair> dtchen: yes, but i think it would be good as a short-term solution so we don't leave users out in the cold while waiting for a better fix.
<hyperair> dtchen: you did mention that the linux bugs would take some time to fix
<fabrice_sp> LucidFox, seems so, yes
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, a sid chroot  is ok?
<mannyv> yes
<LucidFox> Back up now
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, thanks for the ack... just in time =)
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<hyperair> dtchen: incidentally, i'm also seeing those powersave-clicks. could be related to another issue where there's a loud pop when ubuntu suspends/hibernates (right at the last moment, prior to powering down)
 * fabrice_sp is updating his sid chroot
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, apt-cache does not give back any rdepends :-/
<fabrice_sp> it's obviously not working
<mannyv> strange because thuban definitely has one
<fabrice_sp> yeah: I've just checkd it
<mannyv> http://packages.debian.org/sid/thuban
<fabrice_sp> is there any other command than apt-cache?
<fabrice_sp> guess what: it's not working in ubuntu either
<fabrice_sp> it's becasue package is not there anymore
<fabrice_sp> python-xmlbase, I mean
<mannyv> yeah its a virtual package
<fabrice_sp> oh
<mannyv> so i am just going to send thuban a bug  telling them they don't need to depend on it anymore
<mannyv> because it is silly to keep haing to merge this
<mannyv> thanks for checking for me, sorry i sent you on a wild goose chase
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, apt-cache dumpavail | grep python-xmlbase gives me only one depends
<fabrice_sp> yes: thuban is the only one
<mannyv> sweet ok that should help my cause =)
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<mannyv> how what command did you use to find that so i can show them how to replicate if they want?
<fabrice_sp> apt-cache dumpavail | grep -B 20 python-xmlbase | grep Package
<mannyv> so now that we figured this out, should i still do this merge or should I talk to the maintainer in debian and try to get them to make the change and then wait for a sync?
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, try with Debian first :-)
<fabrice_sp> we still ahve time to get this package in Lucid
<mannyv> ok that is what i expected you to say =)
<fabrice_sp> lol
<mannyv> btw i used to be serialorder if you recognize the name at all, decided to just follow suit and use my name
<mannyv> would you recommend that i request it via a bug submission or email the maintainer or ??
<fabrice_sp> hmmm, ok ;-)
<fabrice_sp> bug submission is better
<fabrice_sp> this way, if you  request the merge in 2 or 3 weeks, I'll check and see teat the Debian maintainer is not doing anything ;-)
<fabrice_sp> (I try to check Debian bug reports before processing a merge to see the status of the differences)
<mannyv> ok bug submitted
<mannyv> thanks for your help
<fabrice_sp> thanks for working on it :-)
<ripps> I want to apply to become a MOTU, but I realize I don't have any packages that I've directly added to Ubuntu, just a few through Debian and whole lot in PPA's. Are there any package that you guys need some more manpower on?
<jmarsden> ripps: Get the ones you have put in PPAs *out* of the PPAs and into Debian and/or Ubuntu :)
<fabrice_sp> jmarsden, good point :-)
<ripps> jmarsden: most of my PPA's are daily builds from upstream. Although, I do have some packages of dshowserver, a middlelayer to use CoreAVC with a patched mplayer. I guessed I need to pass the coreavc patch into Mplayer first.
<fabrice_sp> ripps, as we are at the beginning of a dev cycle, forwarding changes made to Ubuntu back to Debian  is welcome (and not always done by the patcher)
<ripps> Hmmm... a good candidate might be my xwii and libwiiuse packages, but I'm unsure if wiiuse still works with the bluetooth now... I should probably run a test build...
<fabrice_sp> sounds good
<mannyv> if i do a debdiff between a debian package and an ubuntu merge and get a lot of .po file entries i can remove those from the diff right?
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, they should, except if they comes from Ubuntu
<fabrice_sp> some packages generate po files when building/cleaning
<fabrice_sp> this ones should be cleaned
<ripps> Hmm... I already have xwii on Revu, hasn't been touched in a year. I can see if my version is different there. However, the real problem is that wiiuse package is actually version by jgoguen, but he hasn't made any updates on it since May. He probably got frustrated like I did with the whole process.
<fabrice_sp> ripps, could be: in general, we prefer to maintain well what we have, and not flood Ubuntu with new packages
<fabrice_sp> I go through this also myself :-)
<ripps> The problem is, I'm trying to prove I'm capable of becoming an Ubuntu Member, however most of my work happens to be in package development. tonyyarusso, whom I know, says he can't recommend me for membership since I work far more development than he does, and he can't recommend me. So he told me to try and work with some MOTU's here
<ripps> Of course, the whole damned Revu process is so frustrating, it's hard to get my foot in the door.
<fabrice_sp> ripps, you can work on merges or fixing existing packages
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, so how do i tell if the po files are from debian or ubuntu?
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, you have to look at the ubuntu original debdiff
<fabrice_sp> ripps, fixing existing pacakges could be checking the FTBFS page and make the pacakges build
<mannyv> im not understanding what  you mean?
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, what is the version of ubuntu?
<fabrice_sp> s/of/in
<mannyv> piklab_0.15.4-1ubuntu1
<mannyv> there is now piklab_0.15.5-1
<mannyv> in debian
<fabrice_sp> so, you can have a look at the debdiff between 0.15.4-1 and 0.15.4-1ubuntu1
<fabrice_sp> if po are there, that's because they has been added in Ubuntu
<mannyv> ok and if there are no po files in that debdiff then that means they did not come from ubuntu
<fabrice_sp> exactly
<fabrice_sp> so they shouldn't be in the debdiff :-)
<mannyv> ok perfect, thanks!
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<fabrice_sp> It will be easier for me or another MOTU to review the debdiff if the content is accurate, so I'm doing it also for me :-)
<mannyv> when i have been test building i have been building for both i386 and amd64 i was wondering if both would be necessary or only one of them?
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, i386 should be enough, even if I build myself on amd64 only :-)
<fabrice_sp> (with -A option of sbuild, to build arch independent package)
<mannyv> thanks for that remind, i forget -A half the time!
<fabrice_sp> :-) I have a small script that do the sbuild call, with -A :-)
<mannyv> thats a good idea i will make me one of those
<mannyv> i notice that a lot of bugs have merge. ... from Debian testing (main)
<mannyv> what does the main mean?
<fabrice_sp> Debian has main, contrib and non-free IIRC
<mannyv> oh so its different from ubuntu main
<fabrice_sp> yes
<mannyv> ok
<fabrice_sp> it's more like main + universe
<fabrice_sp> and contrib and non-free are like multiverse
<mannyv> in the previous version in the control file it had priority:extra now it is priority: optional I don't need to keep the old priority do i?
<fabrice_sp> nop
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, if you have some spare time ,could you try building http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/guile-1.6/guile-1.6_1.6.8-6.4.dsc ?
<fabrice_sp> it's freezing here
<fabrice_sp> or someone else :-)
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, retrieving it
<fabrice_sp> thanks :-) It's freezing in the dpkg-genchanges step
<mannyv> i386 ok?
<fabrice_sp> yes
<fabrice_sp> freezing also in i386 here :-/
<mannyv> its hanging for me too
<mannyv> http://pastebin.com/f4a8e5b36
<mannyv> that is as far as it gets
<fabrice_sp> same place for me. Thanks mannyv !
<mannyv> np, glad i could return the favors
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<mannyv> how do you get the bot to link to a bug in the channel?
<mannyv> well im off to bed but if you have a moment please review  bug  #486181
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 486181 in piklab "Please Merge piklab 0.15.5-1 from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486181
<jmarsden> mannyv: Looks like you answered your own question there :)
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<LucidFox> I like Liferea.
<LucidFox> The paragon GNOME application: simple yet functional, clean UI, doing one job and doing it well.
<LucidFox> ...Now Brasero broke.
<geser> Laney: update-maintainer (from udt) is currently broken (missing an import). It's easy to fix but I wonder why you added the requirement on LP credentials as it doesn't interact with LP.
<LucidFox> https://edge.launchpad.net/~schilling-fokus <-- This guy annoys me.
<LucidFox> He's the developer of cdrtools, and flames Ubuntu in Launchpad comments for shipping a "broken fork".
<geser> ah, that story again
<geser> search the Debian mailing lists for either cdrtools or his name
<LucidFox> I know the story.
<LucidFox> But gosh, is he persistent.
<geser> oh yeah :(
<LucidFox> I'm yet to find a Launchpad comment by him that doesn't consist of advising Ubuntu users to switch from cdrkit to cdrtools, with a link.
<wgrant> all that I've found share that same virtue.
<wgrant> Amusing.
<wgrant> Oh no, there's one.
<wgrant> Bug #321530
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 321530 in cdrkit "cdrecord has no manpage" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/321530
<LucidFox> Since when are executable names copyrightable anyway?
<LucidFox> "cdrecord" is fairly generic.
<geser> since JÃ¶rg says so
<wgrant> Certainly not copyrightable, but potentially trademarkable.
<Laney> geser: Oh I thought checkIsInDebian used LP
<Laney> just a mistake, feel free to fix it
<geser> Laney: no, it just uses rmadison. Will fix it in a minute.
<sebner> huhu Laney geser
<Laney> hi sebner
<geser> Hi sebner
<ari-tczew> geser: are you a LP developer?
<geser> ari-tczew: no, I just used the LP API for ubuntu-dev-tools. wgrant works(?) on LP
<ari-tczew> ok
<ari-tczew> any sponsor could review sync requests for main?
<LucidFox> :/
<Laney> what's up LucidFox?
<LucidFox> Excessive hard dependencies. Quassel depends on KDE base packages, which depend on xine.
<LucidFox> I made double-build changes for quassel before to build two versions, with KDE and plain Qt, but nothing came of it, because they don't want to drop CDBS.
<LucidFox> Not that I use quassel anymore, so I just removed it along with the KDE libraries.
<g33k> i have a script with binaries embed in them, could it packed to a deb file?
<randomaction> yes, debs can contain scripts and binaries
<g33k> randomaction, its using cdbs is it?
<randomaction> not necessarily
<g33k> randomaction, is there an sample package, like helloworld?
<randomaction> yes, it's called "hello"
<slytherin> jdong: ping. need to discuss bug 270976
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270976 in gst-plugins-bad-multiverse0.10 "[SRU] gst-plugins-bad0.10 needs rebuilding with mjpegtools to enable burning video with Brasero" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270976
<randomaction> g33k: we also have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<g33k> randomaction,but it has not script in it
<g33k> randomaction, i meant i m looking for an example which shows how to pack a shell script
<randomaction> I think it's basically the same, you just don't have the compilation step
<g33k> randomaction, ok going through
<g33k> randomaction, thank you
<ScottK> LucidFox: For Lucid I think we'll be moving to dh7 for KDE packages, so we can revisit your double build approach for Quassel.
<LucidFox> ScottK> Nice.
<ScottK> LucidFox: The pkg-kde-tools for KDE specific stuff now supports DH 7, you just build --with-kde similar to --with-quilt.
<hyperair> --with=kde
<hyperair> or does --with-module work as well now?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: if Debian has got a NEW package, this package will sync automatically into lucid before DebianImportFreeze?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Yes.
<ScottK> hyperair: You're probably right.
 * ScottK was working from memory of doing it once.
<hyperair> ah
<ari-tczew> ;-O, amazing! \o/
 * hyperair uses --with=quilt quite a lot
 * ari-tczew test
<hyperair> and /usr/share/cli-common/cli.make says --with=cli
<ScottK> hyperair: I'm sure that's right then.
<hyperair> =)
<LucidFox> ScottK> Well, then I'll modify the quassel package for double build when it migrates to dh 7.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: The new Debian packages from the last DIF were source accepted yesterday and are probably all in binary New at the moment.
<ScottK> LucidFox: Great.  I'm glad to support Qt only packages, I just need to use the KDE tools for the KDE ones (which were CDBS only until very recently).
<ari-tczew> ScottK, how can I know whether source were accepted?
<ScottK> They were all accepted.
<ari-tczew> aha
<ScottK> There aren't any policy reasons a package could go into Debian Main, but not Ubuntu Universe, so we don't re-review everything.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: You can also look https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+queue?queue_state=0 for the binaries.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: now 176 packages are waiting for sync by ubuntu-archive, are all packages of these will sync for lucid?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Yes.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: how often are https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html and https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html updating?
<ScottK> They aren't right now.
<ScottK> Normally they update every 6 hours, but something
<LucidFox> I see some packages haven't been autosynced, which are blocking things I have in mind.
<ScottK> is wrong and with UDS this week, no one has looked at it.
<ScottK> I'd expect things will catch up next week after everyone is back home and back to their more usual work.
<ScottK> LucidFox: I have the same problem.
<ScottK> My flight is boarding, so I have to go.
<ScottK> Good by.
<ari-tczew> bye
 * ari-tczew is going to learn to be prepared for driving exam
<StevenK> Aw
<ghostcube> hi folks i've installed arista from universe repo and it fails to start with py error
<ghostcube> cpould this be translatiojn problem ?
<ghostcube> http://pastie.org/709015
<dtchen> my German is pretty horrible, but it looks like a method error, not a translation error. Then again, I haven't looked more closely, since I'm hacking on libsdl at the moment.
<slytherin> If an app crashes because of the translation error then I would say that it is coded very badly.
<geser> ghostcube: can you re-run it please with LANG=C?
<ghostcube> sure
<slytherin> ghostcube: starts here fine (on karmic)
<geser> If I translate it back correctly it fails because it can't find the "camera-video" icon in the current icon theme
<ghostcube> oh ok
<ghostcube> it doesnt start even with LANG=C so no traanslation error i think so :D
<slytherin> geser: even that is bad coding. :-)
<ghostcube> hmm could it be cause iam on kubuntu
<ghostcube> and iam missing any icon theme
<ghostcube> http://pastie.org/709030
<ghostcube> with lang=c
<ghostcube> sure its missing an icon
<ghostcube> :|
<ghostcube> damn
<geser> ghostcube: do you have gnome-icon-theme installed?
<ghostcube> yep
<geser> hmm
<geser> is gnome-settings-daemon running?
<ghostcube> not installed
<ghostcube> needed ?
<geser> just guessing, as you said you are on kubuntu and it doesn't work while I'm on gnome at it works, I assume it something gnome specific that's either not installed or not running
<ghostcube> sure
<ghostcube> hmm this will bring in pulseaudio if i install it
<ghostcube> then i better leave arista :D
<dtchen> huh? What Depends on pulseaudio?
<ghostcube> gnome-settings-daeomon
<ghostcube> -o
<geser> only a recommends
<dtchen> no
<dtchen> right, Recommends: pulseaudio
<ghostcube> eh have i missread moment pls
<geser> but it depends on libpulse
<ghostcube> then iam sorry
<dtchen> depending on libpulse0 is no big deal
<dtchen> (except if you use Kubuntu or Xubuntu, then it can be problematic in terms of UI)
<ghostcube> Die folgenden zusÃ¤tzlichen Pakete werden installiert:
<ghostcube>   libgnomekbd-common libgnomekbd4 libpulse-browse0 libpulse-mainloop-glib0 libspeexdsp1 pulseaudio pulseaudio-esound-compat pulseaudio-module-udev pulseaudio-module-x11 pulseaudio-utils
<ghostcube> nope it brings in pulseaudio
<ghostcube> definetly
<dtchen> we install Recommends by default
<ghostcube> ah ok
<ghostcube> :)
<dtchen> apt-get --no-install-recommends install
<geser> try "sudo apt-get install gnome-settings-daemon --no-install-recommends"
<ghostcube> didnt help
<ghostcube> but thx haventt knwn this apt command till now and iam using this a long time noe
<ghostcube> :D
<ghostcube> still the icon is missing
<geser> hmm, then I'm out of ideas (besides install the gnome desktop :)
<ghostcube> hehe
<ghostcube> but thx guys :)
<ghostcube> i luv my kde
<ghostcube> ah ok the libpulse is from the ppa with jack support :)
<ghostcube> thats fine
<ghostcube> iam using transmageddon it works ok so far
<ghostcube> maybe i try arista other time
<ghostcube> :)
<geser> ghostcube: you could try to look how it tries to find this icon and what's missing that it can't find it
<ghostcube> i have the problemo
<ghostcube> its definetly the icon not included in oxygen
<ghostcube> and it prses the one running
<ghostcube> if i chhose gmone icon them it works
<ghostcube> it doesnt work with any kde only theme
<slytherin> does anyone know what this error is - http://paste.ubuntu.com/324695/ pitivi does not start at all.
<ari-tczew> gcc 4.5 will default in lucid?
<sebp> hi
<sebp> I'd like to import a package from debian into ubuntu, into a ppa for the time being
<sebp> is it sufficient to just re-package it under ubuntu?
<ari-tczew> sebp, 'unpack' (dpkg-source -x *.dsc) is an only way to upload into ppa
<ari-tczew> please read wiki.ubuntu.com
<geser> if you mean with "re-package" just to replace "unstable" with "jaunty" or "karmic" and give it a matching version, then yes
<Laney> well
<Laney> you could just dput ppa:yourusername/karmic blah_source.changes
<Laney> or change Distribution: in the changesfile
<Laney> I don't think soyuz looks at the changelog
<geser> right, regenerate a proper changes file should be enough
<sebp> so I just create a new entry in the changelog saying karmic and that I imported the package?
<ari-tczew> yes
<sebp> ok, thanks
<Laney> Â¬_Â¬
<geser> isn't it also possible to copy from the LP debian mirror into your PPA with the LP API? (don't know if the webinterface supports it)
<Laney> I have used this script before: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/syncpackage
<Laney> does a manual sync which you can then upload to wherever
<ari-tczew> sebp, you should learn about pbuilder
<sebp> ari-tczew, I'm already familiar with it
<christoph_debian> hm anyone a idea why libsfml isn't synced to lucid yet? It's in debian testing for ~7 weeks now
<Laney> dunno if an autosync run has happened
<christoph_debian> IIRC I have seen other packages being synced to lucid
<mannyv> christoph_debian, bug #383190
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383190 in libsfml "Sync libsfml 1.4+repack1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383190
<sebner> christoph_debian: it's waiting in the NEW queue then
<Laney> mannyv: that's really old
<christoph_debian> ah ok
<mannyv> Laney, yeah i noticed that it is the bug that was reference in m-o-m
<randomaction> from bug: "Rebuild for orig.tar.gz mismatch which causes autosync to fail"
<randomaction> ah, sorry, that's a rebuild changelog entry
<mannyv> yeah i think it needs a new sync request
<mannyv> im test building now
<mannyv> ok  here is the sync request: bug #486393
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 486393 in libsfml "Sync libsfml 1.5+repack1-2 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486393
<geser> it has a build1 suffix so it should get picked up automatically by autosync
<mannyv> geser, so it will show up in merge-o-matic until it is picked up by autosync?
<geser> yes
<mannyv> oh ok, well that was silly then
<geser> I expect things will sort out itself once the autosync happens regularly again
<ari-tczew> for future: developers, please comment on MoM sites that sync has been requested, it makes work easier
<mannyv> ari-tczew, to be fair it did say that sync had been requested it just pointed to an old rebuild request, I just didn't realize that means that it will autosync so i thought it was a mistake. Guess i will know next time
<Laney> just check bugs before you do work
<Laney> not everyone uses mom
<ari-tczew> Laney, right, so it would be nice if you are using MoM and you check that sync has been requested, you could add a comment on MoM
<ari-tczew> I'm doing that
<Laney> adding bureaucracy is not a way to encourage contribution
<ari-tczew> Laney, checking whether sync has been requested waste some seconds, time = money
<Laney> requestsync does this check
<ari-tczew> you know that we have some different views
<ari-tczew> I don't like requestsync, it doesn't satisfy me never
 * mok0 loves requestsync
<ghostcube> geser: it seems not to search in any other icon theme than the one u choose in the settigs of kde
<ghostcube> and if it fails to find it doesnt replace with an ghost icon or so
<ghostcube> it just segfaults
<ghostcube> o.O
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-22
<nebula> hiÅ
<mrooney> if I want the installation of a package to remove another package if it exists, do I use Replaces, Conflicts, or both?
<mrooney> I'm finding http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html a little ambiguous on what a packager manager should actually do with those
<jdong> mrooney: from what I understand, Conflicts to express "Only one of the two should be installed at any given time", and Replaces+Conflicts to express "Users of previous package foo should be upgraded to bar"
<mrooney> jdong: okay, the example I'm playing around with is a metapackage to change the browsing experience, so I've got Depends: midori, and then I should Replaces+Conflicts firefox?
<jdong> mrooney: I'd say just Conflicts firefox
<jdong> if you want Firefox to be removed
<mrooney> ah okay, yes
<mrooney> hmm, are they are guides on debian/.install files? I can't figure out where it finds the files; I assume the lines are where it puts them
<mrooney> (I'm looking in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete)
<jmarsden> mrooney: man dh_install
<mrooney> jmarsden: awesome, thanks! perhaps it might be appropriate for me to add that to the wiki?
<jmarsden> Well, in general all the debian/stuff files have corresponding dh_* commands and so man pages... but sure, if you think it will be useful to add it, go for it.
<dtchen> (all the debhelper bits --> debian/stuff)
<jmarsden> Right... I wasn't clear... man debhelper to see more details...
<mrooney> oh hey dtchen, sorry for changing the importance on that bug; didn't realize it was part of your workflow
<mrooney> jmarsden: maybe I need to take a step back. I have an XML file I need to load in a postinst script, so I'm trying to ship it in /usr/share so I can do that, and was looking at the .install files as a means to do that
<dtchen> mr	no worries
<dtchen> wow, uh, tab completion fail
<lifeless> dtchen: you use irssi?
<dtchen> lifeless: indeed
<lifeless> dtchen: if so, its a known 'feature' - irssi detects 'paste' by the rate at which characters are received, and if it thinks something is a paste
<lifeless> it doesn't interpret it
<lifeless> I think this is daft
<lifeless> but <sigh>
<lifeless> (I filed a bug once)
<jmarsden> mrooney: So, if you put the XML file under debian/ and then put a line in debian/install that says  xmlfile usr/share/packagename    doesn't that do what you want?
<mrooney> jmarsden: hm, could be :) this is I think my second-ever package
<mrooney> let me check that out
<jmarsden> Sure, go for it :)
<dtchen> be aware that xmlfile needs to get into $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/share/packagename; some people do this in debian/rules, etc., etc.
<lifeless> dtchen: if you run irssi over ssh, a network glitch can cause what you had happen; otherwise just typing really really fast ;)
<dtchen> lifeless: yeah, client was extremely lagged
<mrooney> dtchen: oh I see so THAT'S how the .install files work? I was confused because I only saw what I perceived as a destination, but not a source file
<mrooney> but actually you sort of mirror the path in debian/tmp and each line is the source and destination in the .install file?
<dtchen> mrooney: there are different semantics based on the syntax
<mrooney> hm okay, know any simple packages that do this off-hand that I can look at the source?
<mrooney> I will just google dh_install, maybe it has more examples than the man page
<dtchen> libao does
<dtchen> see its libao2.install for an example of both, intermingled
<mrooney> oh awesome, I see, thanks!
<mrooney> so that's grabbing a .conf file from debian/ and shipping it to /etc, is it acceptable to just put arbitrary xml files in debian and then ship them that way?
<dtchen> I don't know about arbitrary -- I would think that they're at least Debian-specifi
<dtchen> c
<lamothe> Hi people, what's the correct way to get a GConf schema file installed.
<lamothe> ?
<lamothe> Is this more of an upstream thing?  Everything that I'm reading is telling me to put it in the post install but surely a `make install` should take care of this.
<lamothe> I realise that this might not be a MOTU question exactly but it might become a MOTU issue when I get it wrong ;)
<jmarsden> lamothe: If you install the application "by  hand" after building it from the upstream source tarball, how does the Gconf schema get where it needs to be?
<lamothe> schemadir = $(GCONF_SCHEMA_FILE_DIR) ... is that what you're asking?
<jmarsden> No, I mean if you follow whatever install instructions upstream provides with their software, how does that file get installed?
<jmarsden> What puts it into place?
<lamothe> jmarsden: Oh, I am upstream.
<lamothe> Currently I don't have a schema file.  Would like to add one.
<jmarsden> So in an unpackaged situation... how are you getting the file into place?  get that working, *then* package your software :)
<lamothe> jmarsden: I'm not, so I did some reading and it seemed to be pointing me at putting it in the post install which didn't seem right to me.
<lamothe> Before I go down a path that a MOTU will tell me is wrong later, I was looking to try and get it close to correct first time :)
<jmarsden> OK... I think you are correct; if the software doesn't work / install correctly before it is packaged, it should be fixed...
<jmarsden> But I am not a MOTU :)
<lamothe> But I bet that I'm still doing it wrong :)
<lamothe> Ok, so I need to find a solution in the Makefile.am.  Are the install-data-local sections frowned upon?
<Laney> lamothe: dh_gconf does this
<LucidFox> I realize that this is not a support channel, but my Brasero has stopped burning CDs in a fresh Karmic install, it only burns DVDs.
<lamothe> Laney: Thanks,I'm on dh7.
<LucidFox> When I burn a CD, it acts as if the burn completed successfully, but when I reinsert it, it's shown as empty.
<lamothe> I hope that this works, although isn't most of this automatic now?
<Laney> yes, it should be called in the install target
<Laney> export DH_VERBOSE=1
<Laney> you have to arrange for the schemas to be installed in usr/share/gconf/schemas first
<lamothe> Laney: But surely I need to somehow instruct it ... right.
<lamothe> Won't $(GCONF_SCHEMA_FILE_DIR) do that?
<Laney> isn't that stuff from cdbs?
<Laney> just use dh_install
<lamothe> I have "schemadir = $(GCONF_SCHEMA_FILE_DIR)" in the Makefile.am.
<Laney> no idea
<Laney> see how some other software does it
<lamothe> Then ... "schema_DATA = me-tv.schemas"
<lamothe> Yeah, I was looking at gnome-terminal.  I find it hard to find a simple GTK/GNOME application using DH7.
<lamothe> And a schema file.
<lamothe> Anjuta doesn't even have a scema file.
<Laney> you're talking about the upstream autofoo
<Laney> the debian buildsystem shouldn't matter
<Laney> as long as "make install DESTDIR=debian/tmp" does it right
<lamothe> Laney: Yes, this is a upstream (my) problem.  But I was hoping not to make it someone else's.
<Laney> that's what I'm saying
<Laney> so you don't have to care about if it's dh7 or not
<Laney> so you *can* look at any old bit of software
<Laney> once you get your autofoo doing the right thing then dh7 will also just work
<lamothe> Yes, but it's how it gets it in there.  Also, I noticed that gnome-terminal installs its schema  on a  `make install`/
<Laney> most of them should
<Laney> but it's beyond me how to wrangle the autotools into doing so
<Laney> i'd go hassle someone who has done it before :)
<lamothe1> Laney: Sorry, there's a nasty bug in karmic, when I plug in the power on my laptop it shuts down.
<mannyv> I am looking at a package that used to FTBFS because it was compiled with -Werror we patched it to fix the errors. Upstream has released a new version, they did not fix the warnings but they removed -Werror so it builds fine now
<mannyv> the error was: ignoring return value of 'write', declared with attribute warn_unused_result
<mannyv> or warning rather
<mannyv> so my question is if I should tear out the old patch since it isnt needed to fix the FTBFS or keep it since it is a better coding practice?
<randomaction> if there are no other changes, just drop it and sync the package
<randomaction> but the patch could probably be sent upstream (if you care enough)
<EzraR> where do makefile.in's get there variables from?
<mok0> EzraR: configure
<mok0> EzraR: or, rather, configure.ac
<EzraR> yeah i figured it out
<EzraR> this bug (LP: #327174) ends up steming from this bug
<EzraR> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=524176
<ubottu> Debian bug 524176 in automake1.10 "AM_PATH_PYTHON should honor python's idea about the site directory" [Normal,Open]
<EzraR> i believe
<EzraR> anyone wanna make a second opinion?
<EzraR> i have the automake book sitting around...i should really get a round to reading it...
<trudell> why nv cards crashs in x with ubuntu kernel?
<trudell> Microsoft bribes Ubuntu development team to make bullshit kernel to not run 3d cards or commercial games on Linux.
<AndrewGee> Hi. Any MOTUs available to review my package on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gpxviewer - It's an application to view gps traces. Thanks :)
<mok0> AndrewGee: I'll bite
<mok0> AndrewGee: Ah, you're also upstream
<AndrewGee> Yup
<AndrewGee> Thanks for taking a look :)
<trudell> hi all
<trudell> !op
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpatrick!
 * sladen looks
<azeem_> Pici: ^^
<AndrewGee> mok0: Thanks for the advocation. Do I upload a change to the standards version after some other MOTU has advocated then?
<trudell> Andrew, Microsoft bribes Ubuntu development team to make bullshit kernel to not run 3d cards or commercial games on Linux.
<azeem_> sladen: see #u-d
<mok0> AndrewGee: yes, the next advocate is likely to ask for some changes, then you can batch it in. If the second advocate does not have further issues he can make the modification before upload
<AndrewGee> mok0: Awesome! Thanks :)
<nixternal> thank you jpds :)
<jpds> No problem.
<sladen> jpds: well, I guess that ends my chance of talking to the person
<sladen> jpds: despite them not shouting any more abuse since I took it to privmsg
<jpds> sladen: He attacked #ubutnu, #ubuntu-devel, #kubuntu, #kubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-ops.
<sladen> jpds: and nobody (until I, apparently) bothered to ask the person specific *details* about what their issue was
<sladen> jpds: admittedly it's not pleasant, but neither is being klined
<jpds> sladen: http://paste.ubuntu.com/325505/
<sladen> jpds: *shrug*.  I'd got a little further;  but I didn't start of with telling them they were talking nonsense
<sladen> jpds: although I do admit to being not entirely sure how to answer "is canonical a catholic enterprise?"---though the problem was sholved before I'd tried to
<dtchen> sladen: I did point him?her? at the bug tracker, but I suppose I should have been more precise.
<maco> catholic means universal, doesnt it?
<maco> wikipedia says yes: Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective ÎºÎ±Î¸Î¿Î»Î¹ÎºÏÏ (katholikos), meaning "universal".
<sladen> I wonder if it was meant as "closed shop"---I didn't have time to enquire
<EzraR> anyone in here familiar with the problem with automake and python.m4 setting wrong dirs?
<shankao> lintian is outdated in REVU -> W: opensimulator-server source: newer-standards-version 3.8.3 (current is 3.8.0)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-22
<abuDawud> can any experienced MOTU folks just go over the basics of how they run the entire process... I don't see this anywhere on the wiki
<abuDawud> Like how do you look for a 'bug', how do you confirm its not already packaged for the requested version, how do you start the process of packaging, etc
<bdrung> mr_pouit: around?
<DiegoTc> hi guys
<DiegoTc>  I am trying to package a qt code I did
<DiegoTc>  actually i did it
<DiegoTc>  but when i installed it
<DiegoTc>  i can't not find it
<DiegoTc>  i have to search it
<DiegoTc>  wondering if there is a way that it creates a "shortcut on the aplication menu"
<DiegoTc> someone could help me on that?
<paultag> DiegoTc, look at .desktop files, check some existing code to find it. might be worthwhile to apt-get source on a few packages that install to the menu
<paultag> DiegoTc, I think gedit has one, and it's a straightforward package, iirc
<paultag> DiegoTc, if not, groundcontrol has a good setup
<paultag> yeah, groundcontrol is better, DiegoTc
<DiegoTc> okay
<DiegoTc> thanks paultag
<paultag> good luck, DiegoTc
<DiegoTc> paultag, when I upload a package to lp it takes some minutes to update the ppa page?
<paultag> BBL, futurama
<paultag> DiegoTc, you'll get an email
<paultag> /away
<DiegoTc> jajaja
<DiegoTc> it got reject it
<DiegoTc> :p
<mr_pouit> bdrung: yes?
<kklimonda> good morning
<coolbhavi> Is internet available on official buildds?
<ajmitch> not at all
<dholbach> good morning!
<coolbhavi> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey coolbhavi
 * coolbhavi runs back to work 
<bilalakhtar> dholbach: When would be a proper time to push a new update of the sponsoring overview to reports.qa.ubuntu.com?
<dholbach> bilalakhtar, what do you mean?
<bilalakhtar> dholbach: I mean to ask, is the sponsoring overview in trunk stable enough to replace the one already on reports.q.u.c ?
<dholbach> I'm quite sure that it is
<dholbach> so what's in lp:ubuntu-sponsoring  should be what's available at reports.q.u.c
<dholbach> Using saved parent location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dholbach/ubuntu-sponsoring/trunk/
<dholbach> No revisions to pull.
<dholbach> bilalakhtar, ^
<bilalakhtar> dholbach: I don't think it is
<bilalakhtar> dholbach: running the sponsoring overview in trunk has a completely new look
<dholbach> the message above is from the report.q.u.c
 * bilalakhtar confirmes
<dholbach> what is different?
<bilalakhtar> dholbach: wait a few minutes, I will telll you
<bilalakhtar> I am currently running the overview from trunk
<dholbach> bilalakhtar, so I just checked the local output and it looks very much the same to me
<dholbach> I need to go now - I'll bbl, so let me know what you found
<bilalakhtar> dholbach: thanks, mine is the same as well
<dholbach> ok good :)
<dholbach> phew!
<bilalakhtar> sorry for the poke the
<bilalakhtar> *then
<dholbach> no worries
<bilalakhtar> Actually an older version on trunk had a bit better look
<bilalakhtar> which made me think the one in qa.u.c is old
<dholbach> I really don't think the look changed in the last few months
<dholbach> but if you have suggestions or want to contribute...... :)
<micahg> ebroder: good call on the source dir issue WRT mame
<bilalakhtar> quadrispro: good luck with your application!
<quadrispro> thank you bilalakhtar !
<hrw> hi
<hrw> I have a directory with pbuilder results and there are many versions of same package. anyone has a script or other way to remove all versions other then latest one?
<Rhonda> hrw: ls *.changes | tac | tail -n +2 | xargs dcmd rm
<Rhonda> â¦ this though might remove the .orig.tar.gz for your latest build too. But you should be able to fetch that again anyway.
<hrw> Rhonda: thx
<Rhonda> Do an "xargs dcmd echo rm"
<Rhonda> â¦ so you actually get an idea what will get done. :)
<hrw> ok
<StevenK> dcmd is not necessary, I think he only wants to remove them locally
<Rhonda> StevenK: So?
<StevenK> Oh, I thought it was something else
<Rhonda> dcmd expands the .changes file to all files referenced in it
<Rhonda> So it will actually remove the sources and binaries referenced within too.
<bdrung> mr_pouit: i saw that you talked about syncpackage. it takes a .dsc file (from debian) and all corresponding files, creates a _source.changes file for uploading it to ubuntu. do you want to know more about it?
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: re sponsors-overview: please check if adblock-plus blocks something
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: hmm? okay
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: it will look different if adblock-plus blocks the css file or js file
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: cool!
<bilalakhtar> it worked
<bilalakhtar> !
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: How did you know that?
<bilalakhtar> I mean, how did you know I used adblock-plus
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: because i hat to add an exception for it, too
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: because everyone uses adblock-plus ;)
<bilalakhtar> :)
<hrw> markos_: browsing net without adblock is strange thing ;D
<mr_pouit> bdrung: I don't think it was me (I already know what it does ;)
<bdrung> mr_pouit: about which package did you talked yesterday?
<mr_pouit> mmh, exo I think
<m4n1sh> I am trying to create a source package, but debuild -S is giving errors http://debian.pastebin.com/TxeMhuq2
<m4n1sh> the initial package worked fine, it started giving problems only after I edited the original source page to add one more section to build a binary package
<m4n1sh> dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to zeitgeist-datasources/zeitgeist-dataproviders-0.1.0.tar.gz: binary file contents changed
<azeem_> m4n1sh: why is there a tarball inside the source tree?
<m4n1sh> azeem_: I did a make distcheck
<m4n1sh> to build it
<m4n1sh> took it outside
<m4n1sh> and then created the debian folder
<azeem_> outside is what?
<soren> quadrispro: To answer your question from #ubuntu-meeting (just respond whenever you're available to do so):
<m4n1sh> azeem_: the orig.tar.g file
<m4n1sh> azeem_: after removing that tar file from inside
<m4n1sh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/535195/
<azeem_> m4n1sh: apparently the tar.gz file is still located in the source tree?
<soren> quadrispro: Simple. a) I cannot always attest to a package's correctness on Debian, becuase I happen to run Ubuntu, not Debian. b) There is less resistence in getting stuff into Ubuntu. Faster turnaround => more stuff gets done.
<azeem_> m4n1sh: ok, so that one is resolved
<m4n1sh> yeah
<azeem_> the other problem is the new symlink
<m4n1sh> azeem_: do I need to remove all files created by ./autogen.sh ?
<azeem_> probably easiest is the remove that one in the clean target, and redo it if necessary for the build
<m4n1sh> fine
<azeem_> m4n1sh: why do you run autogen.sh during package build?
<azeem_> does the upstream tarball not have a full configure script already?
<m4n1sh> azeem_: actually I am working with upstream
<m4n1sh> so I need to run
<m4n1sh> ./confugure
<m4n1sh> and then ?
<m4n1sh> debuild -S
<m4n1sh> ?
<azeem_> upstream (you e.g.) should make a tarball relaease
<azeem_> release*
<m4n1sh> azeem_: did it
<azeem_> then you should add the debian/ directory to ti
<azeem_> it*
<azeem_> if needed, add patches to debian/patches
<m4n1sh> means extract it and then add debian/ folder
<m4n1sh> right?
<azeem_> yeah
<m4n1sh> did it
<m4n1sh> then ./configure ?
<azeem_> ./configure should be run by the debian package build process
<m4n1sh> just debuild -S
<azeem_> right
<m4n1sh> azeem_: works
<m4n1sh> :)
<m4n1sh> now I need to upload it to PPA and check
<quadrispro> soren, 1) well, OK, I run it too. so, I meant: "encourage" contributors, not beat them :)
<soren> quadrispro: Your question was "but if the package works fine for Debian and Ubuntu and the delta is not so intrusive, why should we diverge?"
<soren> I wouldn't mind at all seeing more packages flow the other way.
<ari-tczew> why meeting logs are not updated yet :/
<quadrispro> soren, I need to to have shower. I'm very, very interested to discuss about this point, really, but... can we continue later? :)
<soren> quadrispro: I'm always around.
<quadrispro> soren, even this evening? anyway, I'll ping you soon, ok?
<soren> quadrispro: No worries.
<soren> quadrispro: I never log off, at least. I may wander off for a while, but if you mention my name, I'll eventually respond.
<pavolzetor> hi, I need help with applying patch
<pavolzetor> https://code.launchpad.net/~pavolzetor/ubuntu/natty/liferea/liferea-test
<pavolzetor> could you look at this?
<happyaron> Can someone help me on this build failure? it builds on debian unstable, but not ubuntu natty: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59448987/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.fcitx_1%3A3.6.4-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<happyaron> fcitx/1:3.6.4-1
<ScottK> pavolzetor: If you ask mvo on #ubuntu-devel, I think he is helping people with patches today.
<BlackZ> happyaron: it's related to binutils-gold most likely
<ari-tczew> happyaron: FTBFS due to DSO linking. Related to binutils-gold in natty. http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking
<ari-tczew> happyaron: Add -lXrender to LDFLAGS or LIBS.
<BlackZ> happyaron: the correct way would be add that libraries to the gcc call
<happyaron> ari-tczew: thanks
<happyaron> BlackZ: thank you, too
<geser> ari-tczew: adding to LDFLAGS won't work anymore since the --as-needed change as order does matter now (the linked library has to be specified after the object file needing it in the linker call)
<ari-tczew> geser: OK, what's the conclusion? Adding to LIBS?
<geser> yes
<geser> and checking that LIBS is used after the object files
 * happyaron confused
<ari-tczew> happyaron: Add -lXrender to LIBS.
<happyaron> okay
<ari-tczew> ogra: for requesting sync, you can use script 'requestsync'
<happyaron> ari-tczew: well, it seems not working.
<ari-tczew> happyaron: sorry, I can't foretell from the ball
<ari-tczew> (show buildlog)
<happyaron> /usr/bin/ld: TrayWindow.o: in function DrawTrayWindow:TrayWindow.c:160: error: undefined reference to 'XRenderFreePicture'
<happyaron> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<ari-tczew> show more log and use http://paste.ubuntu.com
<happyaron> ari-tczew: http://paste.ubuntu.com/535252/
<happyaron> thanks
<ari-tczew> happyaron: on which release do you building?
<ari-tczew> natty?
<happyaron> ari-tczew: this log is produced on lucid with binutils-gold installed, if really need to use natty I can try with a ppa
<ari-tczew> happyaron: it depends what are you doing
<ari-tczew> I'm not expert in fixing FTBFS but it looks for me as upstream problem
<ari-tczew> maybe any include is missing
<happyaron> thanks for you help. well here is my rules, I don't know whether I've put LIBS in wrong place
<happyaron> http://paste.ubuntu.com/535257/
<ari-tczew> happyaron: the best solution is add missing flags LIBS to Makefile
<happyaron> okay, try now
<ari-tczew> adding to debian/rules is workaround
<happyaron> ari-tczew: yeah add to Makefile seems to work, so I'll try to patch it. thanks for your help!
<ari-tczew> np
<tonymoyoy> hi, How can I make a deb packege for ubuntu that shows a screenshot in the ubuntu software center when you are trying to install it ?
<m4n1sh> tonymoyoy: I dont think that the deb package has anything to do with the screenshot
<m4n1sh> screenshots are stored seperately
<bilalakhtar> tonymoyoy: http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/
<m4n1sh> http://screenshots.debian.net/
<m4n1sh> I think Ubuntu syncs from here
<bilalakhtar> m4n1sh: no, Ubuntu operates a separate version at http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/ which syncs from there
<bilalakhtar> along with some of its own
<m4n1sh> bilalakhtar: I have been trying to build the banshee-community-extensions from the HEAD
<tonymoyoy> thanks bilalakhtar
<m4n1sh> weird problems
<bilalakhtar> m4n1sh: mention itg
<bilalakhtar> *it
<m4n1sh> the configure part works fine
<m4n1sh> and the make distcheck works for most of the people
<m4n1sh> Except me :(
<bilalakhtar> m4n1sh: install the appropriate lib*-dev package then
<m4n1sh> done
<m4n1sh> make works
<m4n1sh> make distcheck does not
<m4n1sh> and it works for everyone else :(
<bilalakhtar> Could a UDD user please verify bug #668764 's SRU upload to maverick-proposed? thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 668764 in bzr-builddeb (Ubuntu Maverick) "Add Natty to the list of known distros" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/668764
<bilalakhtar> I have been using the package since before the upload and its very much fine
<bilalakhtar> could someone else also verify? takes only a minute
<bilalakhtar> m4n1sh: could you specify the problem?
<m4n1sh> yeah
<m4n1sh> giving you the problem
<m4n1sh> bilalakhtar: http://paste.ubuntu.com/535281/
<m4n1sh> do you think it is due to bad build script?
<m4n1sh> or do I have to purge the build-deps
<m4n1sh> and then try again?
<ari-tczew> IMO debian/rules is wrong or upstream issue.
<bilalakhtar> m4n1sh: looking now, sorry
<m4n1sh> bilalakhtar: you want the git repo?
<m4n1sh> git://gitorious.org/banshee-community-extensions/banshee-community-extensions.git
<bilalakhtar> thanks
 * bilalakhtar clones
<m4n1sh> and just do install the basic build-dep
<bilalakhtar> chrisccoulson: there? are you working on bug #630383? or can I take it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 630383 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "Gnome-terminal paste keyboard shortcut does not work" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/630383
<chrisccoulson> bilalakhtar, feel free to take it, i didn't get time to look at it yet
<bilalakhtar> thanks chrisccoulson
<bilalakhtar> m4n1sh: sorry, I don't have the time ATM to look at it
<BlackZ> m4n1sh: seems like the "Main.cs" reference is missing in the makefile
<m4n1sh> BlackZ: it is present. That is the puzzle
<m4n1sh> atleast in Makefile.am it is referenced
 * m4n1sh checks again
<m4n1sh> yes it is
<bcurtiswx> is there a way to tell bzr bd to use more CPU's ?
<ebroder> bcurtiswx: There's the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS environment variable: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules-options
<ebroder> But it only works if the package supports it (i.e. it's opt-in for the packaging)
<quadrispro> soren, what does it mean "less resistence in getting stuff into"? when a package doesn't get accepted by Debian, we should wonder why instead straightly accept it
<ari-tczew> I have some odd case. I have patch to fix licenses in upstream files. How should do I resolve this? By patch or apply directly?
<quadrispro> (IMHO), this was about the 2nd point. And about the 1st one: using the same software on both Debian and Ubuntu means learning more things about it
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: can't upstream just fix that?
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: upstream has fixed...
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: I'm packing new package.
<quadrispro> ari-tczew, if upstream has fixed it in its VCS, it would be better to prepare a new dfsg-clean tarball
<ari-tczew> and I have prepared stable release. Upstream has fixed in trunk.
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: what quadrispro said :)
<quadrispro> ari-tczew, get the sources from upstream's trunk
<quadrispro> if he introduces something that you consider wrong/broken/experimental, and you want to exclude that
<quadrispro> you could strip out it by patching the sources
<ari-tczew> quadrispro: his trunk is FTBFS, start from this case
<quadrispro> ari-tczew, take a deep look at the differences between the latest release tarball and the trunk and try to catch the issue
<ari-tczew> quadrispro: bintuils gold :)
<quadrispro> ari-tczew, arghh! :)
<quadrispro> usually they are linking order-related
<ari-tczew> quadrispro: could you take a look on bug 313570 ? guy has noticed that patch is broken, you are a merger
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 313570 in tvtime (Ubuntu Dapper) "tvtime does not rebember matte settings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/313570
<ari-tczew> quadrispro: ah, sorry, BlackZ is
<ari-tczew> you are the first uploader :)
<quadrispro> ari-tczew, sorry but having busy time now. BlackZ, could you take a look?
<BlackZ> quadrispro: will do
<micahg> quadrispro: congrats on becoming core-dev
<quadrispro> thank you micahg !
<hrw> hmm. I need to update wiki and finally start process ;D
<ari-tczew> hrw: maybe MOTU first?
<hrw> ari-tczew: process to get some kind of level - not core one in 2010 ;D
<hrw> ari-tczew: but for tomorrow I already have listed "go to #bzr and find out why LP shows conflicts in my merge requests"
<ari-tczew> aha
<ari-tczew> hrw: IIRC you work for Ubuntu if you got a money.
<hrw> and once found I will have to rebase/resubmit etc 3 packages
<hrw> ari-tczew: not quite. I also use ubuntu
<hrw> ari-tczew: today worked on fixing byobu bug which occured on my hw and it was not related to my work.
<hrw> ari-tczew: also working a bit on efikamx smartbook support things
<micahg> hrw: so, you're interested in becoming an Ubuntu Developer?
<hrw> micahg: thats the plan
<micahg> hrw: have you seen this yet? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<hrw> micahg: if I would not buy linuxpda in 2004 I would probably be ubuntu-by-debian developer already
<ari-tczew> hrw: start merging with Debian :)
<hrw> micahg: need to find where do I have my page
<micahg> hrw: where *to* put it, or where *did* you put it?
<hrw> micahg: did
<micahg> ah
<hrw> moinmoin never was my favorite so I have problems with it sometimes
<hrw> found
<hrw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcinJuszkiewicz/DeveloperApplicationForUniverseContributer
<hrw> bookmarked this time
<kklimonda> so, how is your involvment with the Polish LoCo? ;)
 * kklimonda whistles and goes away for a beer
<kklimonda> good night
<ari-tczew> enjoy kklimonda
<ari-tczew> hrw: s/Contributer/Contributor
<hrw> kklimonda: you asked 3rd time for it and during uds-n we had discussion that there is no such thing as PL Loco
<kklimonda> hrw: ah, ust kidding :)
<hrw> ari-tczew: right
<kklimonda> even just :)
<hrw> kklimonda: prefer to mention it when others are listening
<hrw> ;D
<ari-tczew> lol 3 Polish talking in english :/
<hrw> ari-tczew: you are suprised?
<ari-tczew> hrw: no, just odd feel
<ari-tczew> :P
<hrw> ari-tczew: I had situations when I changed pl<>en few times in one discussion (live)
<ari-tczew> aha heh
<hrw> ari-tczew: but it sounded weird when it occured in a middle of sentence
<akoskm> hi
<hrw> ari-tczew: suggestions/opinions on that wiki page?
<micahg> hrw: that's a nice list of stuff, are you looking for endorsements?
<hrw> micahg: will ask people for them in next days
<micahg> hrw: ok, next meeting is in 2 weeks :)
<ari-tczew> hrw: my suggestion is to show your expierence, knowledge and involvement
<micahg> hrw: I'll be happy to review it later
<hrw> micahg: mkey, thx
<ari-tczew> hrw: I couldn't give you endorsement, I don't have anything sponsored for you or any expierence in cooperate with you.
<hrw> ari-tczew: I asked for opinion/suggestion not endorsement
<ari-tczew> hrw: so I don't have suggestions for you. I don't like to read on wiki election promises.
<hrw> ari-tczew: ok
<akoskm> I'm trying to package qtjambi for Ubuntu. I listed phonon-backend-gstreamer as dependency but pbuilder says that there are unmet depends. because phonon-backend-gstreamer is a virtual package. here the pbuilder output: http://pastebin.com/c2fK8ppQ
<hrw> akoskm: use "virtual | real" for deps
<hrw> or "real | virtual" order - but you have to suggest some existing package
<akoskm> this is the only package which contains the file what I need
<akoskm> I need to add these options to pbuilder?
<hrw> to debian/control build-depends
<akoskm> or inside the control file
<hrw> akoskm: for example my package depends on "linux-source-2.6.37 | linux-source-2.6" (with versioning inside) because 2.6.37 is in natty but in theory any >2.6.35-something can work
<hrw> or linux-ti-omap4-source if exists etc
<akoskm> I see, but how do I figure out which one is the real package?
 * hrw has no idea - phonon-backend-gstreamer contains real files so for me it is not virtual
<akoskm> yep, for me too thats the problem, but pbuilder states that its virtual
 * hrw needs to go - feed the daughter
<hrw|gone> thx for help guys
<akoskm> thank you hrw
<BlackZ> akoskm: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html (7.5 Virtual packages - Provides)
<akoskm> BlackZ, thx
<akoskm> BlackZ, what to do if actually phonon-backend-gstreamer is a real package, and when I list as dependency its getting handled as virtual?
<akoskm> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/i386/phonon-backend-gstreamer/4:4.7.0really4.4.2-0ubuntu1
<BlackZ> akoskm: do you need it for gstreamer0.10-plugins-good and gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly ?
<akoskm> BlackZ, no. I should list it because it provides the file "phonon_gstreamer.so" required for qjambi building
<akoskm> here is pbuilder's log: http://pastebin.com/c2fK8ppQ, somewhere at the end it says that the given package is virtual, but it isn't
<soren> quadrispro: I'm not looking for more stuff to learn. I'm trying to get stuff done.
<soren> quadrispro: "less resistence": I can just upload stuff to Ubuntu at will. In Debian, I have to wait for a sponsor and whatnot.
<highvoltage> maco: hey, have you tried gally on natty recently?
<akoskm> pbuilder still states that phonon-backend-gstreamer is a virtual package, and it wont let me to build the package, does anybody have an idea how can I avoid this?
<magn3ts> Who should I contact about fixing the wubi page: http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/windows-installer
<maco> highvoltage: i havent upgraded to natty
<Pici> magn3ts: File a bug under the ubuntu-website project.
<magn3ts> Pici, okay. seems rather glaring IMO :P
<quadrispro> you, me, devs can upload, anyone else cannot. In Ubuntu there is a sponsorship process, too
<soren> quadrispro: Was that for me?
<quadrispro> soren, yes, it was :) (continue) of course policies and workflows are different, but stuff get done anyway (anywhere). The point was: mutual understanding would mean more collaboration. I don't want to state anything like: "Ubuntu should should be more like Debian"
<soren> quadrispro: I know we have a sponsorship process too. I used to have to deal with it. Now I don't. So getting stuff into Debian is orders of magnitude more complicated. I'm working on a elaborate flowchart that will make the hilarity of this nonsense obvious.
<quadrispro> soren, you say right, anyway an Ubuntu-powered user could help Debian to improve and viceversa
<soren> quadrispro: Of course. An an Ubuntu-powered user could help Fedora, too.
<soren> quadrispro: Really.
<soren> quadrispro: The vast majority of the code in Ubuntu is shared by most other distros.
<quadrispro> indeed it is, but Ubuntu doesnt derive from Fedora
<soren> quadrispro: I never said it did.
<soren> quadrispro: I just question the notion that spending time fixing same bug in three different places is necessarily better than fixing three bugs in one place.
<soren> quadrispro: Three places: Ubuntu, Debian, and upstream.
<quadrispro> soren, agreed, sure. I think just the following: an Ubuntu contributor who knows well Debian could work better on Ubuntu. That's it
<quadrispro> then, we should keep differences alive, be different is great
<soren> quadrispro: Ah, I see.
<quadrispro> we agree on more points than anyone may think :)
<soren> :)
<quadrispro> leaving
<quadrispro> soren, it's been a pleasure, see you soon!
<soren> quadrispro: o/
<quadrispro> bye!
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-23
<michaelh1> Hi there.  libatomic-ops-dev needs a one line source code fix to compile on later ARM versions.  I'm new to this - could someone point me at the documentation on how to do this and submit it? (http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-build.en.html assumes a quilt patchset)
<geser> michaelh1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff that should hopefully help you for the start
<achiang> is there a way to get dpkg to just download the .deb of a package?
<ebroder> achiang: aptitude has an aptitude download
<achiang> ebroder: ah, thank you. i'll go read the man page
<ebroder> I think I heard mvo say he added an apt-get download recently (i.e. natty only)
<achiang> ebroder: aptitude download works.... almost. now i want to get a different arch. :)
<achiang> ah, append=
<c2tarun> i was using "sudo pbuilder build <name>.dsc" to build a package, pbuilder found some packages and start downloadiing them. can anyone please tell where can i see the log of this activity???
<c2tarun> i got this error while i was practicing packaging from a tutorial. http://paste.ubuntu.com/535431/ please help :(
<ajmitch> c2tarun: that looks like quite an old version of brasero you're working with
<c2tarun> i was working on a tutorial on this page    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<ajmitch> I suspect that needs to be updated to use a newer package. I think that version of brasero needs some patches to work on a recent system :)
<c2tarun> ok, sorry sir i m not familiar with patching stuff now. infact brasero was my first package. any suggestions for me??
 * ajmitch is just trying to think of a fairly simple package that wouldn't be too problematic
<c2tarun> ok thank you sir :) i'll go for small and easy packages.
<ajmitch> yeah, there should be a few that you could practice on :)
<abuDawud> if a packaging assignment has been assigned to someone for a year and I want to work on it, is it okay for me to unassign it from them?
<ajmitch> I'd generally comment on the bug first & see if there's any response after a few days, though you can probably get started on doing the packaging work
<RAOF> abuDawud: I'd try pinging them first, in case there's a reason why it's been hanging around for a year.
<ajmitch> also, check that it's not already in ubuntu, debian or on revu
<dholbach> good morning!
<quadrispro> hi dholbach !
<dholbach> hey quadrispro
<quadrispro> hi all
<andol> I have a question regarding the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto. Wouldn't I also want to have something like this in my configuration, to build against the latest packages? OTHERMIRROR="deb http://se.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ $DIST-updates main restricted universe multiverse"
<andol> (Actually I do suspsect there might be a good reason for only building against the base packages, I just don't know what it is.)
<Rhonda> In some cases it's needed to build against updates, but in general it's preferred to not do so.
<soren> Rhonda: Why?
 * soren always builds with -updates and -security enabled.
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: how do you feel after meeting? are you discouraged to contribute? do you will continue strengthen main?
<Rhonda> soren: To have least surprises. "Why not?"
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: 1. it's ok; 2. no; 3. certainly. Why do you ask?
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: I'm watching on contributors behaving and motivation.
<soren> Rhonda: Because it's what the buildd's would do.
<soren> Rhonda: ...and it's what my own box would do outside of a pbuilder.
<Rhonda> soren: The buildds would do? Didn't check their configuration, with same priority, i.e. always pulling in updates, no matter if build-depends are sufficient in the regular release?
<soren> Rhonda: Sure.
<Rhonda> Actually that's not so "sure" to me
<Rhonda> Otherwise I wouldn't ask or be astonished. :)
<soren> Rhonda: -proposed builds against -updates and -security.
<soren> If we don't even trust -updates ourselves, how could we expect our users to? :)
<ari-tczew> how can I avoid to creating files in quilt3 'debian-changes'XXX' ?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: make sure that there are no inline changes to the source.
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: there are not... it's related to handle debian/patches
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: are you introducing a new patch or is it an existing one?
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: I removed deprecated patch and add refreshed
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: then pick up the reapplied changes from there and add them to the "deprecated patch". Be sure to run 'pop quilt -a' then remove the generated patch during the build
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: example: bug 676303
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 676303 in konversation (Ubuntu) "[natty] indicator applet doesn't handle konversation notifications" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/676303
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: usually if upstream introduced minor changes in the files to be patched it should not be a problem to refresh the related patch(es)
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: ah sorry, I mean "quilt pop -a" and not "pop quilt -a" :)
<Rhonda> BlackZ: rather quilt pop, not pop quilt ;)
<Rhonda> oh, you corrected already
<BlackZ> Rhonda: :)
<ari-tczew> lol
<om26er> i am backporting a fix to a debian synced package and debuild does not work unless 'Maintainer' has a @ubuntu email. what should i do?
<hrw> om26er: strange - my ubuntu packages have non ubuntu email
<tumbleweed> om26er: run update-maintainer
<dholbach> (from ubuntu-dev-tools)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField has the reason for it
<om26er> tumbleweed, thanks worked
<hrw> new-dev-process question: are persons who want to endorse me on a wiki page needs themself to be ubuntu developers?
<ScottK> hrw: It's not strictly required, but endoresements from developers are weighed more heavily.
<hrw> ok thx
<hrw> ScottK: and I understand why
<gaurava> hey all ... i am trying to set up a serial console in ubuntu 10.10 for debugging purpose but no luck till this time
<siretart> quadrispro: congrats to core-dev membership!
<quadrispro> siretart, thank you very much :)
<hrw> gaurava: you want to have serial console access to machine or to connect from your machine to serial console?
<gaurava> i want to have serial console access to the machine ..
<hrw> gaurava: ok
<gaurava> actually i am following this article https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialConsoleHowto
<gaurava> i did all the steps as mentioned in it .. but still not getting any output on my serial console
<hrw> gaurava: cd /etc/init/ cp tty1.conf ttyS0.conf?
<siretart> hrw: that's not enough
<siretart> "sed s,tty1,ttyS0, /etc/init/tty1.conf > /etc/init/ttyS0.conf" should do it
<gaurava> currently my ttyS0 contains the following content:
<gaurava> start on stopped rc RUNLEVEL=[2345]
<gaurava> stop on runlevel [!2345]
<gaurava> respawn
<gaurava> exec /sbin/getty -L 115200 ttyS0 vt102
<gaurava> do i still need to do the changes as suggested by sietart ??
<ari-tczew> gaurava: you can press [TAB] for autocomplete nicks
<zul> soren: just updated the workitems for the openstack-integration spec fyi
<soren> zul: url?
 * soren likes things he can click on
<zul> soren: one sec
<zul> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-openstack-integration
<gaurava> ari-tczewsorry i didn't get it
<soren> zul: What are "zone files"?
<zul> soren: memory and disk sizes...ill change that in the spec
<soren> zul: eh?
<achiang> mdeslaur: hi, thank you for uploading pbuilder for me; i see that it experienced a FTBFS, but looking at the build log, it looks... unrelated to my change
<zul> soren: ie how much memory  you allocate for m1.small
<soren> How is that a "zone"?
<mdeslaur> achiang: oh?
 * mdeslaur looks
<mdeslaur> achiang: ugh :)
<zul> soren: its not ill update the spec
<achiang> mdeslaur: does that build log make any sense to you?
<soren> zul: Yay.
<mdeslaur> achiang: not yet, but i'm looking into it now
<achiang> mdeslaur: i wonder if it's just natty toolchain issues, and not related to the uploaded debdiff at all. has pbuilder been built in natty yet anyway?
<mdeslaur> achiang: it had (and it did locally for me with my outdated schroot)
<mdeslaur> achiang: but I updated my schroot and it's not building locally anymore
<achiang> mdeslaur: a quick scan of pbuilder.8 doesn't show any obviously illegal characters in vim
<mdeslaur> achiang: yeah, and doing "LANG=C MANWIDTH=80 man --warnings -E UTF-8 -l pbuilder.8 >/dev/null" in a natty schroot works...
<geser> I can reproduce this in my natty pbuilder (but not in my natty chroot)
<geser> achiang: I've tested rebuilding 0.199ubuntu1 which fails too
<achiang> geser: well, it's a small comfort to know that i didn't directly cause this issue. :-/ thanks
<akoskm> hi! if some package is available in the updates/universe repo, how can I enable that repo in pbuilder?
<quadrispro> akoskm, by setting COMPONENTS properly in your pbuilderrc file (see man 5 pbuilderrc)
<akoskm> quadrispro, thank you
<quadrispro> you're welcome
<hyperair> quadrispro: i hear you're a core dev now. congrats! =)
<quadrispro> thanks hyperair !
<hyperair> =)
<mdeslaur> achiang: pbuilder is fixed. not your fault :)
<achiang> mdeslaur: thank you. i did read some of the scrollback in #ubuntu-devel and saw that a) it was related to locales and b) you were doing a fine job of handling it, so decided to let you keep going. :)
<mdeslaur> achiang: by "doing a fine job", you mean "panicking", right? :P
<achiang> mdeslaur: i note that the word 'euphemism' is composed of two greek words, 'eu', meaning 'good or beautiful' and 'phemism' meaning 'possible interpretation of random irc text'.
<achiang> ;)
<mdeslaur> hehehe
<achiang> can someone help me recover from a bad natty dist-upgrade? it looks like xulrunner's postinst is hanging indefinitely. i killed the apt-get. my next thought was to purge xulrunner from my system since i use chrome, not firefox, but attempting to purge it seems to cause apt to want to reconfigure it or something...
<persia> achiang, maintainer scripts live in /var/lib/dpkg/info/... and can be edited by root.  If you make them completable, you can complete the dpkg operations.  Fixing the system afterwards is an exercise for the user :)
<achiang> persia: good hint. i'm a developer, i should be able to fix broken stuff, right? ;)
<\sh> achiang: that depends ;)
<achiang> persia: is there a way to make apt a little more chatty? can i just stick a 'set -x' at the top of all the xulrunner maintainer scripts and try to see what's going on?
<\sh> achiang: you can set -x to the maintainer script in the directory persia mentioned before and start it manually if you want
<Sarvatt> achiang: fixed xulrunner-1.9.2 was uploaded already, hopefully it wont be too much longer :)
<Sarvatt> achiang: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.5/+bug/663294 is the problem
<achiang> Sarvatt: ah, thank you for the fish. i am now requesting a fishing lesson. :)
<achiang> \sh: ok, right, that makes sense. i was just wondering if there was a more generic way to do it, but that's fine too
 * persia usually modifies the stubborn maintainer script and then calls it with `dpkg --configure -a`
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: is it true, that do you planning sponsor bug 662276? if not, I'll subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 662276 in vim (Ubuntu) "Merge vim 2:7.3.035+hg~8fdc12103333-1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662276
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: I found the merge bug, which could interest you ;) bug 507778
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 507778 in acpid (Ubuntu) "Please merge acpid (1:2.0.0-1) from Debian testing" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507778
<micahg> version is out of date
<ari-tczew> micahg: ?
<micahcowan> ari-tczew, perhaps he means that the current Debian testing version is 1:2.0.6-1
<micahg> yep
<ari-tczew> micahg: and?
<ari-tczew> do you know, that launchpad has got option like edit bug?
<geser> ari-tczew: as far as I know cjwatson will sponsor it (once it reached the top of his queue)
<blueyed> I have backported a PHP snapshot, based on the ubuntu package, but the build fails (without any clear error): http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59509213/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.php5_5.3.4%7Esnap201011231530-0ubuntu1%7Eblueyedppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz - "dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2", but no real reason apparently. Hints?
<micahcowan> blueyed, Not "no reason". Search above that point to find the errors that resulted in the final error returned by "debian/rules build".
<micahcowan> build -> build-pear-stamp -> install-pear, apparently.
<micahcowan> At which point it appears that some rule was running wget to download a file from pear.php.net (as part of the build process?!), but wget couldn't resolve the pear.php.net hostname
<micahcowan> Haven't done launchpad builds myself, and don't know much about them, but I wouldn't be surprised if normal external net access were disallowed for security reasons or somesuch.
<blueyed> micahcowan: thanks, missed that and yes, that makes sense. I am not sure if the regular buildds allow network access?! will have to look into this later.
<geser> blueyed, micahcowan: the buildds don't have net access
<Sarvatt> achiang: fixed xulrunner-1.9.2 is out now
<achiang> Sarvatt: ta!
<achiang> Sarvatt: much better, thank you
<Sarvatt> achiang: thank chrisccoulson, he found the problem fast when I bugged him about it :)
<achiang> Sarvatt: yes, i peeked at the bug and it looked hairy, having to read the disassembly to figure out the answer. /me thanks chrisccoulson
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-24
<micahg> mdeslaur: are you working on bug 592538?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 592538 in rhythmbox-radio-browser (Ubuntu) "Please update the package to 2.1.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592538
<jfer> hi. could you please tell me the best way to find a list of copyright holders for some sources?
<jfer> can someone help me with packaging skype-call-recorder? it is my first package
<dholbach> good morning!
 * bilalakhtar sorts out some NBS
<micahg> RenatoSilva: hi
<micahg> RenatoSilva: so, I'd say file the LP bug, we can link the Debian bug, get it fixed in Debian, sync to Natty, then SRU to karmic, lucid, and maverick
<RenatoSilva> micahg: hi, I' creating the bug report with patch
<micahg> RenatoSilva: ooh, graet
<RenatoSilva> SRU?
<micahg> *great
<micahg> !sru | RenatoSilva
<ubottu> RenatoSilva: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<RenatoSilva> ah ok
<micahg> RenatoSilva: do you have the bug # handy?
<RenatoSilva> writing yet wait
<micahg> RenatoSilva: sorry, take your time
<bilalakhtar> I am having a super-wierd upload error
<bilalakhtar> The source package upload gets accepted
<bilalakhtar> but after the package gets built
<bilalakhtar> then after that, the binary upload from the builder to the archive fails
<micahg> bilalakhtar: happens on occasion, do you have a log?
<bilalakhtar> micahg: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59537167/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-armel.gnat_4.4%2B1ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
<bilalakhtar> http://paste.ubuntu.com/535806/
<bilalakhtar> micahg: ^
<bilalakhtar> brb
<RenatoSilva> micahg: bug 680820
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 680820 in purple-plugin-pack (Ubuntu) "Missing IRC More plugin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/680820
<micahg> lifeless, can you take a look at bilalakhtar's pastebin?
<micahg> RenatoSilva: that looks fine, can you attach to the debian bug as well?
<RenatoSilva> I've sent an email pointing to LP, but not sure when it'll appear there
<micahg> RenatoSilva: not failing on missing plugins would be an upstream build system bug
<micahg> RenatoSilva: oh, did you reference the patch?
<micahg> RenatoSilva: it should be fine in any case, debfx is a MOTU and subscribed in LP as well
<RenatoSilva> I said look there for a patch
<micahg> RenatoSilva: perfect
<bilalakhtar> lifeless: it is here http://paste.ubuntu.com/535806/
<micahg> RenatoSilva: ok, the bug's all set, thank you for the patch, feel free to poke me in a week if you don't see any updates
<RenatoSilva> ok
<RenatoSilva> regression are feature-removing bugs?
<RenatoSilva> *regressions
<micahg> RenatoSilva: generally where a feature in one release isn't in the next
<RenatoSilva> ok
<RenatoSilva> from #pidgin: (07:06:39) RenatoSilva: rekkanoryo: --with-plugins="non,existing,plugins" => if it aborted, .deb build would fail in debian and ubuntu and we wouldn't have wasted our time here, Kazuha, you and me :)
<micahg> RenatoSilva: I thought the plugins didn't have anything to do w/the pidgin debs
<micahg> *devs
<RenatoSilva> micahg: rekkanoryo is one of the plugin pack developers
<micahg> RenatoSilva: ah, ok, cool
<RenatoSilva> actually it is one of the authors of irc-more itself [too]
<RenatoSilva> I love how much time is wasted from people because of a simple thing like aborting a build of non-existing stuff
<gaurava> hey all .. from yesterday .. I am struggling to setup a serial console on my ubuntu 10.10 machine ..
<gaurava> ny help would be great
<gaurava> I am basically following this article for the setup <https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialConsoleHowto> but no luck so far
<gaurava> Then I simply connect the serial cable .. and trying to write on it .. by using command: $ > ehco "abcd" > /dev/ttyS0
<gaurava> I can see that interrupts assigned to /dev/ttyS0 (IRQ - 4) is increasing ..
<gaurava> but still there is no output on the other machine ..
<gaurava> group ..  ny idea what else can I try ?
<Daviey> Is someone available to sponsor? :)
<BlackZ> Daviey: did you subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" to the bug?
<soren> Daviey: Is it something fun?
<nigelb> lol, that's nice, I think I'll give soren the review of the tar in tar package once its done :p
<Daviey> BlackZ: there isn't a bug
<Daviey> soren: not really :)
<Daviey> soren: I think you were following the discussion in #lp , http://pb.daviey.com/m9pw/raw/
<nigelb> Daviey: I think that was in response to your "Is someone available to sponsor?"
<soren> Daviey: Sure, i can do that.
<Daviey> soren: Appreciated ! :)
<soren> Daviey: Is it a long bulid?
<soren> build, even.
<Daviey> soren: no
<soren> Daviey: Great.
<soren> Daviey: Uploaded.
<Daviey> soren: groovy, thanks
<soren> Daviey: np
<soren> Daviey: I took the liberty of importing upstream's git on Launchpad in case you need it.
<Daviey> soren: nice one!
<Daviey> soren: I imagine you might need it soon, aswell :)
<soren> Upstream?
<soren> Hm.. Maybe.
<soren> Well, probably. I tend to have a hard time keeping my hands off shiny, new things like this.
<Daviey> :P
<superm1> hi guys.  mythtv upstream is moving from svn to git. in the process of moving a lot of the helper scripts that we use for daily building and ease of use need to be updated.  Generally it seems discouraged to keep packaging upstream, but upstream agreed to service pull requests for debian/ . it seems that it would make more sense to me to keep it upstream, so is there any good arguments against that?
<superm1> we currently don't build formal releases ever, but rather rolling snapshots of stable branches anyhow
<superm1> so a bunch of git-buildpackage's features seem less relevant
<ScottK> superm1: Is mythtv in Debian?
<superm1> ScottK, no it's not
<superm1> there have been some efforts to get it in, but I don't see it happening in the near future
<ScottK> Then as long as they exclude it from an eventual real release tarball, I think it's fine.
<superm1> yeah I expect they would.
<superm1> they were actually were planning to keep it in packaging/debian, so anyone wanting to build would just have to ln -s packaging/debian debian;
<superm1> so even if it were for some reason rolled into the release tarball i don't think it would be entirely harmful
<Laney> If you use 3.0 (quilt) for your packaging (of releases) then it will delete upstream's debian/ directory anyway.
<superm1> we currently use 3.0 (quilt), so that actually would be sensible if all the packaging was in packaging/debian and then our debian.tar.gz only had to contain a symlink to the proper location
<ulysses> Hello, how can I solve the linking problem mentioned in the last comment? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hupnp
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: around?
<rulus> Good evening! I'm trying to make a debdiff to fix the Pidgin MSN SSL error in Lucid, but I'm unsure about the version number to use. Current version in Lucid is 1:2.6.6-1ubuntu4.1, so should it be 4.2 or 5 at the end?
<micahg> rulus: 4.2, but I thought someone already uploaded that
<rulus> ah, I don't see it in the bugreport, only for maverick
<micahg> rulus: ah, yes, you're correct
<rulus> so 4.2 it is, thanks! :)
<gaurava> hey all
<gaurava> I have a question ..
<ari-tczew> gaurava: just ask
<gaurava> I am currently looking into the issue w.r.t axis2c  <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/axis2c/+bug/600174>
<gaurava> and then there are many more bugs open for the same component ..
<m4n1sh> I want to report a broken dependency problem. Where do I have to file the bug
<m4n1sh> or can anyone take it up here
<gaurava> so what we are using rite now is axis2c v 1.6.0-0ubuntu9
<gaurava> but what Debian guys have in their current branch is something like 1.6.0-2 version ..
<gaurava> do you think it makes sense to update the Ubuntu axis2c package with Debian
<gaurava> [DISCLAIMER}: I am a newbie over here and just fixed 2 type mistakes till this time. . :)
<gaurava> Link of Debian axis2c package : http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/axis2c.html
<gaurava> m4n1sh: if you are running Ubuntu rite now, you can use "ubuntu-bug" (aka apport) utility
<gaurava> m4n1sh: Checkout this link for more detail https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<m4n1sh> gaurava: it's about apport. basically useful for crashes
<m4n1sh> I want to report the problem in broken dependencies
<bdrung> tumbleweed: thanks for your work on wrap-and-sort, but next time please commit each change separately (1. tabs -> spaces convertion, 2. Correct typo 3. Sort debian/install 4. Add one-space-indentation 5. Remove null-entry)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: it was a merge commit
<tumbleweed> bdrung: but yes I could have committed them to trunk separately
<bdrung> tumbleweed: sorry, didn't saw that is was a merge commit. then it's fine.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you don't have to mention ack-sync in debian/changelog - we do not install it
<tumbleweed> good point that
<ari-tczew> gaurava: IIRC axis2c from Debian is FTBFS
 * tumbleweed is using offline holiday-time to work through some bug lists. I have some big refactoring in pbuilder-dist but it needs decent testing before I'll commit it
<tumbleweed> not going to happen while I'm on GPRS
<bdrung> tumbleweed: "Sort debian/install as well as debian/*.install" was on my todo list :)
<tumbleweed> whoops, found some DEB_VENDOR changes in my pbuilder-dist branch
<gaurava> air-tczew: how can i confirm the same? Is downloading the source code from the same and then running pbuilder build .... would be enough?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i do the "lenght" typo quite often
<ari-tczew> gaurava: I encourage to use pbuilder-dist natty
<gaurava> ari-tczew: pbuilder-dist natty ... does this command will create a pbuilder enviornment based on the natty distribution?
<ari-tczew> gaurava: sudo pbuilder-dist create natty
<gaurava> ari-tczew: Also, I am running maverick currently .. hopefully this command will not interfere with my system as it is ..
<ari-tczew> gaurava: you can use maverick instead, but if you want introduce something to our current development cycle, you must build for natty.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you forgot to update the man page for wrap-and-sort
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do you have time to implement a feature request for wrap-and-sort?
<tumbleweed> sure, what is it?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: an option to specify the location of the debian directory
<bdrung> (default will be "debian/"
<bdrung> )
<tumbleweed> why is that necessary?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: because of the daily builds branches contain the content of the debian directory
<tumbleweed> of course with multiple wrapping-styles, it should now be able to auto-detect wrapping-style and only be overridden if desired (but I'm leaving that for now)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: example: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~audacity-team/audacity/daily-packaging
<tumbleweed> oh you mean ./
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes
<tumbleweed> sure, I'll do that now
<bdrung> tumbleweed: or you can specify a full path, e.g. wrap-and-sort -d /tmp/buildtest/package-1.2/debian
<gaurava> ari-tczew: yup, its not building from the source code
<gaurava> ari-tczew: but still I am a little bit confused about the pbuilder stuff... can you explain it a little bit more or point me to some documentation/link
<gaurava> ari-tczew: its just I have a single laptop that I used for my daily uses .. and have no intentions  to upgrade the same with natty release  :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i have some question to your changes: the one-space-indentation should begin with a newline?
<ari-tczew> gaurava: 1) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<ari-tczew> gaurava: 2) man pbuilder
<bdrung> tumbleweed: 2) can you give me an example for "Remove null-entry from trailing comma in sorted lists"?
<tumbleweed> my preferred wrapping is either wrap at the last comma before 80, indent by 1 space; or every dependancy on a line, indented by one space
<tumbleweed> if you have every line indented by one space except for the first one, it doesn't read well
<bdrung> that's right
<bdrung> tumbleweed: is it ok to start with a newline?
<tumbleweed> 2: if you have a trailling comma, sorted() will give a null item at the beginning of the list
<tumbleweed> it seems to be ok, null items also seem to be ok, but I see bugs filed in the BTS about them
<bdrung> tumbleweed: that was my idea too, but it failed in the test. you remove only on empty item, but there could be more (example: add ",,,," to the list). i will fix it.
<gaurava> ari-tczew: thanks, will look into it .. :)
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: rather "sudo pbuilder-dist natty create" :)
<tumbleweed> good point, (although  unlikely)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: wrap-and-sort is all about making it look nice (even if this case is rare)
<tumbleweed> agreed
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pushed
<bdrung> tumbleweed: nice side-effect: all other duplicates will be removed (i remember that we had "python" in b-depends twice)
<tumbleweed> cool
<bdrung> tumbleweed: bug #681114 if you seek work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 681114 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[pull-lp-source] has problems with packages that contains '-' in its name" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681114
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: wrote from my mind
 * tumbleweed opens a tab
<bdrung> tumbleweed: another idea: bug #681119
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 681119 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[wrap-and-sort] add an option to sort binary package sections in debian/control" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681119
<micahg> bdrung: that might be problematic, doesn't dh_link throw the symlink by default in the first binary listed?
<bdrung> micahg: that's why i want a special option for that (maybe we need an option to exclude the first binary)
<micahg> bdrung: k :)
<bdrung> micahg: it won't do it by default :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the error message is weird: "expecting" the wrong directory?
<micahg> bdrung: what do you think about switches on pbuilder to enable various ubuntu pockets?  (proposed, updates, security, backports)
<bdrung> micahg: would be nice (and sections: main, main + universe, ...)
<micahg> bdrung: k, it's something I run into in stable releases is getting the pockets enabled in pbuilder
<tumbleweed> micahg: I get around that with a D-series hook, but yes that would be a good pubuilder-dist addition
<micahg> tumbleweed: I have one to update the cache, but not to enable the pockets, I guess I could try that
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah I was hesitant about that - "expecting to find"...
<micahg> tumbleweed: another thing I want to add is libeatmydata support
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes, that's better
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you failed with pep-8 :)
<tumbleweed> micahg: yes I've been meaning to play with that
<bdrung> wrong indention...
<tumbleweed> I saw your fix there yes
<tumbleweed> you were doing alignment with tabs :P
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes, that differs from how you indent with spaces
<highvoltage> ~/win 12
<tumbleweed> micahg: if you are doing to do any pbuilder-dist hacking, please look at the branch I just posted, it needs testing and is probably buggy. I'll test and push into trunk when I get back into civilisation next week
<micahg> tumbleweed: I will probably be doing some, just not this weekend
<tumbleweed> cool. I can go back into hiding then :) (10s rtt on GPRS doesn't make for comfortable IRC with a remote irssi)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: another idea: bug #681131
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 681131 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[wrap-and-sort] support sorting Architecture list" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681131
<geser> bdrung: re bug
<bdrung> geser: yes?
<geser> bdrung: re bug 681114: what's wrong with it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 681114 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[pull-lp-source] has problems with packages that contains '-' in its name" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681114
<geser> I don't see the problem from the description
<bdrung> geser: fixed the description. it's the version, not the package name.
<ajmitch> bdrung: still, how is it a problem?
<bdrung> ajmitch: i looks ugly to have "qemu-kvm_0.13.0+noroms-0ubuntu7.diff.gz", but "qemu-kvm_0.13.0%2Bnoroms-0ubuntu7.dsc"
<ajmitch> is it that the + is still a %2B on disk?
<bdrung> ajmitch: yes
<ajmitch> so the problem is the +, not a -
<bdrung> yes
<ajmitch> maybe LP was just being slow at showing me the updated description
<bdrung> (my handwritten note was wrong. this lead to a wrong bug description)
<geser> is it really a pull-lp-source problem and not from dget?
<bdrung> geser: dget has the same issue.
<geser> bdrung: pull-lp-source gets the dsc url from LP and calls dget with it
<ulysses> I have a debian/rules, is it ok? http://paste.ubuntu.com/536047/
<geser> bdrung: I'm not sure if decoding encoded chars before passing them to dget is correct
<bdrung> geser: the bug needs probably reassign to dget
<bdrung> ulysses: looks fine. you may use "override_dh_auto_clean" instead of "override_dh_clean"
<bdrung> ulysses: or better: patch the build system to clean up correctly
<bdrung> (and forward the patch upstream)
<ulysses> bdrung: thanks
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: around?
<abirvalg> hi guys, Im trying to package a certain prog which needs to run as a daemon on system startup, I have no experience with bash scripting, so I was looking for some info in MOTU section on how to write post-installation scripts. Is there a good guide?
<micahcowan> A good way to go is to look at existing daemon source packages, and see what they do.
<micahcowan> For Ubuntu, as opposed to Debian, you'd want to look up documentation on "upstart"
<SpamapS> can MOTU's accept bugs for SRU?
<SpamapS> bug 370994 needs to be SRU'd to at least Lucid
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 370994 in drupal6 (Ubuntu) "more info for the users needed" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/370994
<micahcowan> Which isn't really so bash-intensive after all. Uses .conf files that get installed into /etc/init
<micahg> SpamapS: they can open a task, not accept into archive
<SpamapS> micahg: right, opening a task is what I want. :)
<abirvalg> cheers, so upstart is the way to go then
<SpamapS> abirvalg: upstart.ubuntu.com
<ari-tczew> SpamapS, micahg: we can upload (sponsor) debdiff to *-proposed, then wait for pitti's accept
<SpamapS> abirvalg: expect that to go through some overhauls/changes in the next few months.. but the getting started page should be helpful now.. 'writing jobs'
<bdrung> ari-tczew: unless the package is in main...
<micahg> ari-tczew: right, he just wanted the task accepted
<zul> SpamapS: done and done
<SpamapS> ari-tczew: right, but its generally customary to wait until its actually been accepted for the release before doing that
<ari-tczew> bdrung: easy, we discuss about drupal which is in universe
<SpamapS> zul: sweet thanks!
<micahg> SpamapS: no, not anymore
<ari-tczew> and now it's better than waiting for an ACK by sru team. jdong has less to do :)
<micahg> SpamapS: I can create the task, that just looks a little more intrusive than normal for an SRU though
<SpamapS> micahg: its really tiny
<SpamapS> micahg: just pops a screen up on install suggesting that a user should RTFM and where to go to see the defualt site.
<micahg> adding a debconf option to a package that doesn't have it?
<SpamapS> it does not need to be preseeded though
<SpamapS> there's no "question" .. just a message
<micahg> SpamapS: zul took care of it
<micahg> SpamapS: the tasks at least
<SpamapS> hrm
<SpamapS> micahg: I can see where the preseed is not perfect. If there's no answer provided for the note, it will still pop up
<SpamapS> even if the only answer is just to ack the question by adding drupal6/post_install_guidance note
<micahg> SpamapS: it might be because of my lack of familiarity with debconf, but I see that as an intrusive package change, jusy MHO
<micahg> *just
<SpamapS> micahg: I think its only intrusive if its a critical priority question, and if debian installer will stop the install and show it if its not mentioned in a preseed
<SpamapS> I don't know if either of those are true.
<tonymoyoy> Hi, I made a package for ubuntu (for learning purposes), when I open the .deb with Ubuntu Software Center it says License: Unknown, how can I correct this?
<micahcowan> That information is managed by the debian/copyright file in your source package, I believe.
<tonymoyoy> micahcowan i put the license there but maybe a miss something
<micahcowan> Not entirely sure how Ubuntu Software Center gets it from the binary package, though... I don't think it's normally present in the package headers, or anything usually found in the binary package's DEBIAN/ folder... perhaps it actually unpacks /usr/share/doc/<package>/copyright to see?
<SpamapS> tonymoyoy: I believe that is actually displayed, right now, based on the repository that it comes from, so the copyright file isn't helpful at this point. see bug 435183 for more info
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435183 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Doesn't display information about exact software license" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435183
<tonymoyoy> SpamapS ubottu [reading], thanks
<SpamapS> micahcowan: FYI, the license is chosen based on main/universe/multiverse/etc.
<SpamapS> looks like bug 462461 is also on the right track by adding a License: field to the apt listings.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 462461 in apt (Ubuntu) "add License: field to mirror package lists" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462461
<micahcowan> SpamapS, so in other words, the License will either be "free" or "non-free", something along those lines, nothing more granular?
<SpamapS> micahcowan: free, unknown, or proprietary
<SpamapS> micahcowan: should be easy enough to resolve this with DEP5 + a bit of apt magic
<ScottK> SpamapS: One can determine license free/non-free from main/universe or restricted/multiverse.  No DEP5 needed.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-25
<superm1> Riddell, it seems that mythtv builds using the new qtwebkit-dev in natty yesterday started to fail building suddenly.  does this look like a problem with qtwebkit-dev, or has this include been shuffled around now? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59583032/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.mythtv_1:0.24.0%2Bfixes27334-0ubuntu0%2Bmythbuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Riddell> superm1: qtwebkit is broken in interesting ways, I need to look at it tomorrow
<superm1> Riddell, okay cool, thanks
<dholbach> good morning!
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<ebroder> Good evening dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey ajmitch, hey ebroder
 * nigelb waves to ebroder and ajmitch 
 * ebroder waves back
<micahg> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey micahg
<rulus> Morning! I'd like to get the fix for bug #676972 out for Lucid. I've provided a debdiff, but I'm unsure whether I should subscribe ubuntu-sponsors?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 676972 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "pidgin does not connect to msn, certificate error" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/676972
<dholbach> rulus, sure, do it
<dholbach> rulus, do you know if it's fixed in maverick and natty already?
<rulus> yes it had, but I'm not sure if it's fully fixed there, upstream included two more fixes in 2.7.7 which are not in maverick and natty yet
<dholbach> thanks for working on this
<rulus> oh, that's no problem!
<rulus> so in the light of upstream's 2.7.7, the version in maverick might need another update, but I don't have a maverick machine here so can't test
<dholbach> rulus, it might be worth chatting with the guys in #ubuntu-desktop about that
<dholbach> I personally don't use pidgin and have no idea what's planned
<rulus> dholbach, ok, will do :)
<dholbach> rulus, seems like 2.7.7 is in debian experimental, so it can at least be merged for natty
<dholbach> and from there it has to be decided how urgent the updates are and how big the risk to break stuff in a stable release
<rulus> aha, ok, so it should come to natty first. But I guess it's more or less urgent since MSN in Pidgin is broken for anyone using Lucid.
<dholbach> ok, just ask the desktop folks, they know the plans better than I do
<dholbach> having it fixed in natty should be easy and a good test if the fix works
<rulus> ok, thanks!
<ulysses> Hello guys, could you review this please? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hupnp
<federico_78> Hi. There's a python app that is already packaged in deb, but it is not in Debian repos. It installs fine with just 2 dependencies in Lucid and Maverick and it s the only app of its kind. It would be great to have it in Ubuntu. http://thetimelineproj.sourceforge.net/
<ari-tczew> federico_78: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<federico_78> im on it, thanks.
<mfraz74> Is anybody working on updating Audex?
<ari-tczew> if there are not open bugs, seems to not
<mfraz74> there is the bug regarding vorbis-tools
<mfraz74> bug 668682
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 668682 in audex (Ubuntu) "ogg vorbis profiles missing since maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/668682
<mfraz74> I would like to help, but I have hardly any experience building packages and no experience in doing it so they can be uploaded to launchpad
<dholbach> for those of you who are totally new to Ubuntu development, I'll start my videocast with an introduction to ubuntu development in a few minutes: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ubuntu-development-with-daniel-holbach
<geser> dholbach live?
<dholbach> yep
<geser> nice :)
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, can you please mail me your debian bug template as my submittodebian is not working as expected?
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: sure
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: done
<coolbhavi> thanks ari-tczew for the help
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: remember to split every change to another bug ;)
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, sure :)
<angelabad> BlackZ, new libqtwebkit-dev is now in archive
<angelabad> would you try to rebuild basic256?
<BlackZ> angelabad: done
<angelabad> ok, thanks!
<fabrice_sp> as a general comment, I want to make clear that I' like to get in touch before syncing/merging package that I touched, except if said so in M-o-M
<fabrice_sp> in this ase, it's drgeo that has been synced manually, without opening a bug report, and I lost time working on it
<fabrice_sp> this is the second time it happen, not with the same person though
<fabrice_sp> s/in touch/contacted
<angelabad> BlackZ, rebuild has been failed again
<angelabad> tomorrow I will remind you
<fabrice_sp> quadrispro, Hi! Will you sync jackeq?
<quadrispro> fabrice_sp, already done :) thanks for the patch!
<fabrice_sp> oh: that was fast! :-) thanks for uploading it :-)
<sladen> are there any Germans/Austrians there.  Could you press shift-3 for me?
<geser> Â§
<quadrispro> siretart, are you around?
<quadrispro> bye all
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-26
<micahg> bdrung: it looks like since the binary package has the same name, everything should be fine
<bdrung> micahg: and the source doesn't differ?
<micahg> bdrung: what do you mean, it's from the same upstream AFAICT
<bdrung> micahg: the debian/ directory. maybe some packaging difference that we need to carry?
<micahg> bdrung: oh, hmm, ok, I can review it as well, from the changelog, it just a possible FTBFS on non-i386, which you already confirmed is not an issue
<micahg> bdrung: yeah, I don't see anything special in the packaging, should I just comment on the bug
<ScottL> is there a way to 'apt-get source ${package}' but get a particular release instead of changing the sources.list?
<ScottL> for instance, i wanted to build qjackctl from maverick but for lucid and i was in a lucid install
<micahg> ScottK: pull-lp-source
<micahg> oops
<micahg> ScottL: pull-lp-source
<micahg> ScottK: sorry :(
<ScottL> micahg, does that get the most current source, or can i specify the release?
 * ScottL is downloading ubuntu-dev-tools on this machine to find out
<micahg> ScottL: you can specify any release or pocket
<RenatoSilva> what's the purpose of the 'linux' package and why should I use it?
<micahg> RenatoSilva: linux is the source package for the Ubuntu kernel
<ebroder> RenatoSilva: It's also a metapackage you can install to make sure (via a long chain of dependencies) that you always have the latest version of the Ubuntu kernel
<RenatoSilva> source package as in containing source code?
<RenatoSilva> ebroder: I can make sure I have the latest versions by updating the system, so I don't see the point of that package (it is not installed but I'm curious)
<ebroder> RenatoSilva: You probably have a package called "linux-image-generic" or the like installed. It serves the same purpose as the "linux" package
<Rhonda> RenatoSilva: The upgrade does only pull in the latest version if there is a dependency chain to it.
<ebroder> You need one of these metapackages because, as the version number of our kernels change, sometimes the name of the package containing them do as well
<RenatoSilva> ebroder: I have linux-image-generic, so why have  tow packages for the same thing?
<Rhonda> It's not two for the same thing.
<RenatoSilva> "It serves the same purpose as the "linux" package"
<ebroder> It is in this case. linux depends on linux-image depends on linux-image-generic
<Rhonda> RenatoSilva: No, it doesn't.
<RenatoSilva> "The upgrade does only pull in the latest version if there is a dependency chain to it."
<Rhonda> linux depends on linux-image, and linux-image is a virtual package provided by a few other packages, so it doesn't necessarily pull in linux-image-generic.
<RenatoSilva> I don't understand this
<Rhonda> Take a look at this page: http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/linux-image
<RenatoSilva> Should I use 'linux'?
<Rhonda> What exactly don#t you understand in it?
<Rhonda> That depends.
<Rhonda> If you don't see a need for it and be happy with linux-image-generic, then have that.
<Rhonda> With linux-image-generic, you always get the -generic flavor of the kernel.
<Rhonda> With linux you can instead also have the -server or -virtual flavour.
<Rhonda> Hmm, or not.
<Rhonda> Because linux has a versioned depends on linux-image?
<Rhonda> Confusing. %-)
<Rhonda> I guess the "linux" package is there for people just looking for that and not being able to find linux-image or linux-image-generic instead.
<Rhonda> So it's more a convenience reason, me thinks.
<RenatoSilva> well, the version of the "actual" linux-image-generic is on the name, so updates pull new packages to install (through dependencies of 'linux-image-generic' I guess), but the old kernel keeps there, if I don't remove it the old kernel list in my grub menu increases indefinitely
<Rhonda> It can't get removed automatically because you might still be running it.
<RenatoSilva> there isn't any scheduling feature in apt for removing after reboot?
<RenatoSilva> so I will always have to remove old kernels forever? ok
<RenatoSilva> besides this, I'd appreciate to understand why 'linux', 'linux-image' and 'linux-image-generic' exist. I'm even more confused but thanks for trying. Thanks all for help.
<Rhonda> I tried to come up with a possibility why it might exist.
<RAOF> At one point it also pulled in linux-headers; does it still do that?
<ebroder> None of linux, linux-image, or linux-image-generic pull in headers
<ebroder> Or linux-generic
<RenatoSilva> micahg: hi, do you remember the missing irc-more problem? I've attached another patch for making build fail for invalid plugins, not sure if they care though
<micahg> RenatoSilva: I replied in teh bug about that
<Rhonda> RAOF: Given that now changelogs are ripped out of the packages because of install size optimization I would be quite surprised by that. :)
<RenatoSilva> micahg: oh I see. They have their own bug tracking, would you keep a fork if they don't care to fix it (not surprising)?
<micahg> RenatoSilva: who, what/
<ebroder> micahg: Did you say you were going to look at bug #592538?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 592538 in rhythmbox-radio-browser (Ubuntu) "Please update the package to 2.1.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592538
<micahg> ebroder: yeah, I was going to, but probably not tonight at this point, feel free to do it if you like
<RenatoSilva> micahg: first patch is for debian package, second is for upstream, but purple-plugin-pack has its own bug tracking. I should have contributed that patch directly in their bug tracker but I'm lazy to create accounts everywhere, so I just saved it there and showed to them in IRC
<ebroder> micahg: Ok, I'm looking for something to do, so I'll check it out
<micahg> ebroder: if it's good, go ahead and close that other bug I mentioned in the changelog since the guy said it's fixed in that release
<ebroder> micahg: Ok, thanks for the heads up
<RenatoSilva> micahg: so it's pointless opening a bug in Launchpad, unless you guys patch it yourself and keep maintaining the patched version until convincing them to apply there in upstream
<micahg> RenatoSilva: who's upstream?
<RenatoSilva> micahg: the purple-plugin-pack developers?
<micahg> RenatoSilva: didn't you talk to them already?
<micahg> RenatoSilva: I just suggested opening a new Launchpad bug for it
<RenatoSilva> micahg: I just linked to the LP bug in IRC, but no response
<RenatoSilva> micahg: I'm just explaining that a new LP bug would be pointless
<micahg> RenatoSilva: no, it's not, we can still patch it
<micahg> RenatoSilva: we just prefer one bug per issue
<RenatoSilva> micahg: so you patch it, and re-apply the patch every time a new upstream version is released?
<micahg> RenatoSilva: no, the patch system will take care of that
<RenatoSilva> micahg: sounds magic :)
<micahg> or rather yes, but it's not a manual process :)
<RenatoSilva> micahg: does that system detect if the patch was applied in upstream so it can stop re-patching?
<micahg> RenatoSilva: yes
<RenatoSilva> cool!
<ebroder> micahg: I'm having a little trouble getting the debdiff to apply. Do you remember off hand if I need to pop the 3.0 (quilt) patches first?
<ebroder> Never mind. Apparently that doesn't make anything better
<micahg> ebroder: no, you don't need the diff, it should already be applied, it just needs to close
<ebroder> micahg: No, I meant from the upgrade bug.
<ebroder> But that's ok - I'll just play with it more
<micahg> ebroder: oh :(
<micahg> ebroder: in that case,yeah, I woudl think you need to pop the patches if it's source format 3
<ebroder> micahg: Actually, I think that made things worse. I think I'll try just doing the upgrade myself and making sure I get his packaging changes :)
<ebroder> ...wtf. How did we end up with patches to the upstream changelog in debian/patches/...
<ebroder> I think this debdiff is just really confused
<micahg> could be
<ebroder> micahg: Oh, no - the debdiff was just built against Lucid's version. /me sighs
<micahg> ebroder: yeah, I think the other bug's debdiff was the same
<bilalakhtar> One thing to note: what-patch can be misleading at times
<ebroder> No, this is definitely just a broken debdiff
<RenatoSilva> micahg: bug 681680
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 681680 in purple-plugin-pack (Ubuntu) "Build should fail on invalid plugins" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681680
<micahg> RenatoSilva: ok, thanks
<dholbach> good morning!
<RenatoSilva> micahg: I just disagree with wishlist importance, it should be the same importance as the other bug (irc-more missing)
<RenatoSilva> either of now, normal etc
<RenatoSilva> imho --with-plugins="believed_to_exist" working is a bug not a feature
<micahg> RenatoSilva: it's a new feature for the build system, hence wishlist
<RenatoSilva> micahg: it's not for the debian build, but the plugin pack itself
<micahg> RenatoSilva: doesn't matter
<RenatoSilva> ok
<micahg> RenatoSilva: feel free to file it upstream as well and link it in LP
<RenatoSilva> ok
<ebroder> tumbleweed += eleventy for bug #681693 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 681693 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[wishlist] u-d-t config file" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681693
<micahg> RenatoSilva: I was actually referring to the purple-pack-plugin trac tracker, not Debian, same maintainer sees bugs in both Debian and Ubuntu :)
<RenatoSilva> micahg: I know, that comment in debian was before you said that
<RenatoSilva> or regardless
<micahg> RenatoSilva: k, np
<ulysses> Hello, I have a debian/rules which doesn't work, what could be wrong? http://paste.ubuntu.com/536655/
<ari-tczew> ulysses: what is the problem? show log
<ulysses> ari-tczew: I don't have a log, a comment told meg on revu, that VER is empty, so it does nothing
<Rhonda> ulysses: head -1 debian/changelog
<Rhonda> ulysses: Is there actually a - in the version?
<Rhonda> och
<Rhonda> ulysses: That regexp seems to be quite broken, is this really what it's meant to do? It greps for exactly _one_ character before a - in the version string.
<Rhonda> So it would match 2-3 but not 20-3 or 1.0.3-4
 * Rhonda . o O ( there is no need for a log to catch that :P )
<ulysses> Rhonda: the first line of changelog is : hupnp (0.0~svn77-0ubuntu1) natty; urgency=low
<ulysses> Rhonda: sou you're right, the regexp is wrong:P I copied it from the wiki
<Rhonda> which wiki?
<ulysses> ubuntu wiki
<ulysses> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball
<tumbleweed> ulysses: the regex is for 0+svn77-0ubuntu1 - modifiy it appropriately (or the version)
<ulysses> I'm on it
<Rhonda> ulysses: There is a different regex in there?
<Rhonda> ulysses: [^-]+ != [^+]-
<ulysses> I know
<Rhonda> But that's your issue.
<Rhonda> - isn't a quantifier. + in the wiki is.
<Rhonda> I guess you want [^~]+
<Rhonda> Oh. It seems to be really buggy in there.
<tumbleweed> ulysses, Rhonda: oeer, my mistake, corrected
<om26er> how can i prepare a branch for new upstream release of a package. i mean if i want to patch a package i pull it from bzr then make the changes and push. but how do i deal with a new release?
<om26er> one guess i am thinking of is making a diff between the two releases and applying to the bzr branch locally and then push. anyone?
<maxb> Can anyone recommend an example package that builds compiled extensions for multiple python versions, using dh7?
<tumbleweed> maxb: almost all should
<tumbleweed> maxb: example of mine: pystemmer
<maxb> thanks
<micahg> ScottL: is qjackctl meant to be a backport or an SRU?
<ScottL> micahg, i could go either way, but i want you to know that the ubuntustudio team is planning on backporting fairly aggressively for lucid
<ScottL> micahg, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Backports
<micahg> ScottK: yeah, some of those might be able to be in -backports, but some will have to be in a PPA IMHO
<micahg> ops
<micahg> oops
<micahg> ScottK: sorry again
<micahg> ScottL: ^^^
<micahg> ScottL: also, if it's going to be in -backports, it should be filed against the lucid-backports project, not Ubuntu
<micahg> ScottL: is qjackctl broken in Lucid?
<ScottL> micahg, no, it's not broken, but we would like to provide the improved functionality to ubuntu studio users
<ScottL> micahg, which packages would you recommend to be in PPA and not backports?
<micahg> ScottL: anything with a lot of rdepends
<ScottL> micahg, i'm hoping that since we are only going from maverick to lucid we should experience too many dependency issues (except where they build directly against jack)
<micahg> ScottL: I'm referring to when other packages depend on the ones that you want to backport
<ScottL> micahg, oh, hmmmm.  good point, i'll have to think more on this then :P   thanks!
<ScottK> Packages with rdepends on backports are OK, if you test all the rdepends.
<ebroder> ScottK: I forget, do we need to worry about build-deps, or just binary deps?
<ScottK> ebroder: Both, but runtime deps are more important.  For something that is a build-dep, but not a runtime dep a rebuild test is sufficient.
<ScottL> micahg, how can i  file against the lucid-backports project if the bug is already filed on qjackctl (ubuntu)?
<micahg> ScottL: also affects project
<ScottL> micahg, hmmm, i was trying that...i'll have another go at it
<ScottL> micahg, nevermind, got it...the term 'project' and qjackctl together were throwing me off a bit
<ari-tczew> angelabad: if you're doing canna merge, please stop. BlackZ has requested a sync.
<ari-tczew> I've updated comment on MoM.
<angelabad> ari-tczew, ok, thanks!
<ari-tczew> !backport | ari-tczew
<ubottu> ari-tczew, please see my private message
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-27
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: can we sync python-django?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: now we need a wrap-and-sort tool for command line parameters ;)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: huh
<tumbleweed> s/u/e/
<bdrung> tumbleweed: look at the manpage for wrap-and-sort. the parameters are totally unsorted
<aboudreault> hi
<aboudreault> In my debian/rules file, after I the make install of the software. I'm trying to add a quick hack,
<aboudreault> I mv a file from debian/tmp/.../lib/test.so.1.1.2 to [...]test.so.2.3.1. Then try to make symbolic links...
<aboudreault> it seems that the command dh_install removes thoses symlinks, I'm not sure why
<aboudreault> if I add a ls in my debian/rules, I can see that my symlink have been properly created... but the dh_install fails because it doesn't find them.
<aboudreault> any idea?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I went for a logical order :)
<aboudreault> (and after the dpkg-buildpackage, the symlinks disapeared
<aboudreault> ha. got it. The command cd in a debian/rules files do not change directory
<geser> aboudreault: every command in a Makefile gets run in it's own sub-shell
<aboudreault> geser, good to know. thanks
<geser> if you want to "cd" and then e.g. do a "ls" you need to use "cd foobar && ls" (or similar constructs)
<aboudreault> all right
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do we really set DEB_VENDOR=Ubuntu for all tools? grab-merge and syncpackage targets only ubuntu. there it is ok, but dgetlp and pull-lp-source? maybe a DD want to use pull-lp-source to pull a ubuntu package and maintain it in debian and upload to debian
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what's the progress of pbuilder-dist-refactor? we have so many changes. i want to release them.
<mirak> hello
<tumbleweed> bdrung: fair questions. I assume the dgetlp case you mentoin is pretty rare, but then debian/patches/$distro.series is pretty rare too
<tumbleweed> bdrung: the progress on pbuilder-dist is that it's completely untested and I'm only getting back home late on monday. It'll remain untested until then
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i think dgetlp and pull-lp-source shouldn't set DEB_VENDOR
<bdrung> tumbleweed: let me know once your pbuilder-dist changes are tested (and merged). then i will release the next version
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I understand your concerns there, happy to revert that
<crimsun> bah, I'll just file the bug myself and attach the patch thanks to the netsplit.
<ebroder> ari-tczew: It looks like we need a plan for keeping the package up to date in stable releases to make upstream happy
<bdrung> ari-tczew: ^ we need an ubuntu maintainer for it.
<ebroder> Although it does seem like happyaron volunteered to do that
<ari-tczew> ebroder, bdrung: that's right. I'm pretty sure that he want to be an ubuntu maintainer for tor. Looking on his related packages page, he has got a bit expierence in packaging.
<ebroder> ari-tczew: I'd kind of like to see some sort of plan in case happyaron vanishes for whatever reason
<geser> it's more about doing SRUs than packaging
<ari-tczew> ebroder: I hate plans. Plans usually to end only on plans, without activities. The most important thing to achieve success are operational activities. But this is humble opinion, offtopic.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-28
<EagleScreen> when I build a source package, the pinentry window appears a fraction of second and the debsign fails by wrong passphrase
<EagleScreen> gpg-agent problem
<micahg> NCommand1r: hi, do you still intend to upload mame?
<bilalakhtar> nigelb: Looking at your tweets about CakePHP, is it easy-to-use?
 * bilalakhtar is annoyed to see a 14 MB ubuntu delta when merging
<nigelb> bilalakhtar: Its pretty good, yes, but that depends on what you're looking for.
<bilalakhtar> Fellow MOTUs:
<bilalakhtar> I would like to advice everyone of you to please check the debdiff from the previous ubuntu version when uploading, to make sure there is no unnecessary change. This needs to be done in the case of ALL uploads (especially merges)
<bilalakhtar> Package gnumeric had 14MB of Ubuntu delta, but later it turned out to be an unnecessary change that occured because the uploader called debuild (without any args) in the extracted source of the package before running debuild -S .
<bilalakhtar> This is not the first time I have seen such a package
<bilalakhtar> As for the gnumeric merge, after solving that problem, the delta was cut down to a mere 10 KB
<bilalakhtar> 14 MB and 10 KB, the difference is huge
<micahg> bilalakhtar: I would suggest you talk to a flavor dev before working on a merge for their packages
<bilalakhtar> micahg: I did
<bilalakhtar> micahg: oh no I didn't; I talked to the previous uploader and not an xubuntu-dev :( doing that now
<micahg> bilalakhtar: ah, sorry, I see you weren't the last one to do the upload, but another MOTU was :_/
<bilalakhtar> Bhavani, right? I talked to him, but to be sure, I will talk to an xubuntu-dev as well
<micahg> bilalakhtar: I need to send a mail to the ML about this
<bilalakhtar> micahg: to ubuntu-devel or ubuntu-motu?
<micahg> bilalakhtar: ubuntu-motu
<bilalakhtar> micahg: good, do send
<micahg> bilalakhtar: yeah, it'll just be an awareness e-mail
<bilalakhtar> micahg: about debdiffing or about contacting TIL?
<micahg> bilalakhtar: neither
<micahg> bilalakhtar: about packages that belong to packagesets
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<bilalakhtar> okay, do send it
<bilalakhtar> Merging is a pain now
<micahg> bilalakhtar: how so?
<bilalakhtar> 95% of the remaining merges in universe are commented in MoM
<micahg> bilalakhtar: there are other tasks besides merges that can be done
<micahg> bilalakhtar: there are also main merges
<bilalakhtar> micahg: I know, I fix FTBFS, SRU, NBS, but merging is the main need ATM
<micahg> bilalakhtar: actually, the Universe merge list is very small ATM
<bilalakhtar> micahg: That's due to a merging effort by debfx, coolbhavi and ari-tczew
<micahg> bilalakhtar: indeed
<bilalakhtar> and me as well, though I did very little
<micahg> bilalakhtar: actually, I think it would be great if you can fix any of the remaining Debian RC bugs to help squeeze release
<bilalakhtar> micahg: I can't get a list of open RC bugs anywhere
<bilalakhtar> http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ has some fixed ones
<micahg> bilalakhtar: http://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi?release=squeeze&patch=&pending=ign&security=&notmain=&notsqueeze=&merged=ign&done=ign&outdatedsqueeze=&outdatedsid=&needmig=&newerubuntu=&fnewer=&fnewerval=7&rc=1&sortby=last_modified&sorto=asc&chints=1
<bilalakhtar> thanks
<bilalakhtar> bookmarked
<micahg> bilalakhtar: great, if you can help squeeze release, then a lot of new upstream versions will flood into Debian, then we'll need lots of merging help :)
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<bilalakhtar> brb
<bilalakhtar> So squeeze won't release until all RC bugs have been fixed?
<geser> in theory
<geser> in practice the release team will decide that the RC bug count is low enough for release
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<ari-tczew> who is responsible to @ubuntu.com aliases?
<ebroder> ari-tczew: I think they're generated automatically based on your LP username and your primary e-mail on LP
<ebroder> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEmail
<ari-tczew> ebroder: I didn't ask how is adress created.
<ari-tczew> ebroder: one server doesn't send mail on my alias
<ebroder> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/71 says "Ubuntu IS", which I assume is actually Canonical IS
<ari-tczew> I have to get in touch with admins
<ebroder> "Should you require more assistance, please email rt@ubuntu.com with a link to your Launchpad profile and the details of your problem."
<micahg> ari-tczew: that's most likely an issue with the sending server then
<micahg> ari-tczew: or on the receiving end, but not the alias
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'm too small person to be a good person to contact with this server admin. I guess that Canonical is better sender.
<micahg> ari-tczew: huh?  why not?
<micahg> ari-tczew: how do you know it's on the sending end?
<ari-tczew> micahg: what do you think; you're an administrator of big portal and you received mail from ari-tczew. ehh, who is this? nothing important... Canonical looks more seriously
<micahg> ari-tczew: these's requests are usually taken seriously by administrators as it means their system isn't functioning properly
<bilalakhtar> FYI fiodorland.canonical.com is responsible for forwarding mail to the respective addresses
<bilalakhtar> (don't just type that in the address bar of your browser_
<bilalakhtar> )
<ari-tczew> micahg: because if server is sending mail to normal address, I got mail.
<micahg> ari-tczew: to the same address it's being fwded to?
<ari-tczew> micahg: yes
<ari-tczew> so problem is with alias
<ari-tczew> I'm afraid that more servers could not handle with @ubuntu.com aliases
<micahg> ari-tczew: yeah, so open an RT ticket as ebroder suggested
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Appreciate the fact that one server has been chosen solely for this purpose :)
<ari-tczew> lol
<bilalakhtar> there is nothing funny in that
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: s/lol/sigh
<ari-tczew> better?
<bilalakhtar> better
<FTMichael> I'm using an application that needs its version updated in the repos.  (It's in Universe.)  How do I submit a bug report to request that the maintainer update it?
<micahg> FTMichael: you can file a bug: ubuntu-bug logjam and request the upgrade
<FTMichael> micahg: Excellent, thanks. :)  I didn't know if ubuntu-bug would have a space to request upgrade or if it would only find existing errors
<ari-tczew> micahg: you might be interested in sponsor bug 682386
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 682386 in gnash (Ubuntu) "Please merge gnash 0.8.8-6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/682386
 * micahg loves how people don't ask...
<micahg> ari-tczew: thanks
<ari-tczew> you're welcome
<ari-tczew> micahg: you didn't comment this one so angelabad took merge
<ari-tczew> I know that anyway he should ask, but this policy is dying.
<micahg> ari-tczew: it's not as much a matter or right and wrong as it is of courtesy
<micahg> ari-tczew: the assumption should be the TIL person will take the merge as it says on the top of the MoM page
<ari-tczew> micahg: not always it works
<micahg> ari-tczew: the problem isn't the policy
<micahg> No one should have to waste their time to rush to MoM to comment that they'll take a merge, there is plenty to be worked on that contributors shouldn't be bored (including merges marked free to take on MoM)
<ari-tczew> micahg: sometimes ago I had an idea, that MoM will send mail to TIL when merge is available. this information mail includes request to reply for confirm read. if receiver click yes, MoM will assign merge to TIL.
<micahg> ari-tczew: that shouldn't be necessary
<micahg> it shouldn't only be an issue when we're close to feature freeze
<micahg> ari-tczew: you, bhavi, debfx, and bilalakhtar(sp?) have done a great job at reducing the amount of available merges in universe, it seems to be quite manageable now
<ari-tczew> micahg: heh, contributors like to update merges ASAP, and I agree with that. If Debian has released a new package revision, we should merge ASAP. why be late?
<ari-tczew> micahg: thanks
<ari-tczew> It isn't done yet :P
<micahg> ari-tczew: well, if someone has a particular interest in a package, that's great, but for the packages w/out a personal stake, it seems to make sense to only merge once or twice per cycle instead of 10 times (security fixes excluded of course), i.e. otherwise, I would think it's really hard to scale
<ari-tczew> micahg: anyway, I disagree with you. You have your point of view, I have my point of view.
<ari-tczew> how can I close multiple bugs in syncpackage?
<micahg> ari-tczew: -b XXXXXXX,XXXXXX?
<ari-tczew> micahg: syncpackage: Error: Invalid bug number(s) specified: 427308,680410
<micahg> -b XXXXXXX -b XXXXXX?
<ari-tczew> micahg: yeah, it works. However, this method to fix multiple bugs is strange. I should report bug to make it easier way. thanks
<Laney> There's no point in merging for the sake of it
<stgraber> Laney: +1
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-21
<Laney> tumbleweed: ok, lets get on it tomorrow
<Laney> if you want to bung it over to samosa in advance that would help
<tumbleweed> Laney: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/merged.tar.gz
<highvoltage> good morning
<broder> tumbleweed: looks like you left the eatmydata arg out of the getopt call (line 89)
<tumbleweed> broder: thank you
<broder> ...oh, crud. but i'm just about to find out that i can't mk-sbuild a precise chroot, aren't i
<RAOF> Yes.
<RAOF> Yes you are.
<RAOF> Well, actually you kinda can; the bootstrap will fail, but you can manually fandangle the post-bootstrap things that mk-sbuild does.
<broder> ugh
<RAOF> Indeed.  That's why this system doesn't have a precise chroot :)
<broder> wait...actually, where does it blow up? because i've made it to the unpack stage
<RAOF> It blows up at the point where mk-sbuild acutally wants to install something.
<broder> :-/
<RAOF> Why aren't sandybridge dual-core i7s faster? Stupid C++ :/
<tumbleweed> err why is it blowing up?
<RAOF> Because debootstrap is apparently freaked out that there are two versions of perl-modules in the archive, and one of them doesn't work.
<tumbleweed> ah
<broder> i wonder if i can find an archive mirror that predates the transition
<dholbach> good morning
<tumbleweed> broder: given that there's no push syncing atm, that's likely :)
<broder> i have a time machine mirror at work that lets me bring up the archive at a given timestamp
<broder> it's slow as #$%^ but should get the job done
<tumbleweed> that would be a useful feature in lp, although non-trivial. It has the data...
<broder> mine works by rsyncing dists/ and then checking it into a git repo
<broder> then redirecting requests on pool/ to launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/
<tumbleweed> that works
<ricotz> debfx, thanks for vbox
<broder> geez. hedgewars has the most absurd set of build-deps
<broder> i've already pulled in qt and ghc
<Zhenech> broder, patches welcome </debian-games-team-hat>
<broder> i mean, if those are the build-deps, those are the build-deps
<Zhenech> true
<Laney> greetings
 * tumbleweed waves
<Laney> my shoulders ache
<Laney> silly kayaks
<krish_> Hello Motu, I am running Oneric Ocelot. To be able to fix bugs, do I need to be running development release version of Ubuntu?
<krish_> Or Oneric is fine enough to fix bug in some package?
<tumbleweed> no, although it can help to have a machine / vm running the dev release
<tumbleweed> it depends how much you want to look for and fix problems, and how much you want to get work done
<krish_> Ok. Thanks. I have just started to get familiarized with the whole bug system.
<krish_> One more question: Say there is a bug in X package. I will retrieve source from apt, fix the bug in the code. Now, should I send my patch that is in my bzr branch or attach the patch to the bug report?
<geser> either works
<krish_> Ok. Thank you.
<krish_> Hi, Any useful tag to find bugs that require coding and easy to fix?
<krish_> in launchpad
<geser> bitesize
<sladen> krish_: bitesize
<geser> but I don't know if there are currenly any bugs open tagged with it
<krish_> Ok. I will try it and see
<Laney> harvest.ubuntu.com might yield something interesting
<sladen> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<cjwatson> broder,RAOF: I've fixed debootstrap upstream - should get it into Ubuntu soon
<krish_> Is there any way to search for packages in launchpad whose source is written in certain language? Like C or Python?
<directhex> no. https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/3945
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 3945 in Launchpad itself "Support debtags in Launchpad for products and packages" [Low,Triaged]
<tumbleweed> but one can get quite far by looking at binary package names, build-dependencies, binary dependencies, filenames, etc.
<tumbleweed> krish_: what are you looking for?
<mewerner_arand> krish_: You could always use debtags via Debian: http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/ssearch.html ...
<broder> Laney: i'm looking at SRU'ing hedgewars 0.9.17 into lucid->oneiric, but it build-deps on libghc-utf8-string-dev, libghc-bytestring-show-dev, and libghc-deepseq-show-dev. do you know off the top of your head if those are libraries that were split out from ghc core or something?
<broder> (don't bother digging if you don't know off the top of your head)
<Laney> broder: utf8-string used to be in ghc. I don't know about bytestring-show (but probably not) and I don't think deepseq ever was
<Laney> install ghc(6) and do ghc-pkg list to see what packages you have
<broder> Laney: ok, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-22
<achiang> is there a way to specify per-architecture maintainer scripts? i think pretty much "no" but taking a hopeful stab in the dark here
<cjwatson> achiang: you can do anything you like in a rules file, including generating the maintainer script dynamically
<cjwatson> achiang: although I would ask why
<broder> you could also conditionalize on dpkg-architecture within the script
<cjwatson> no
<cjwatson> dpkg-architecture is only usable at build-time, being in dpkg-dev
<broder> oh, huh. ok
<cjwatson> however, you can look at the output of 'dpkg --print-architecture' and conditionalise on *that*
<RAOF> achiang: Mesa says hello!  If you need to have different maintainer scripts for different multiarch targets then mesa does that.
<broder> though i bet multiarch makes that rather complicated...
<cjwatson> if you have to do architecture-dependent things, I would generally suggest that approach rather than having entirely different maintainer scripts (which will be a pain to maintain)
<cjwatson> broder: that depends on the use case - multiarch doesn't change 'dpkg --print-architecture', although it introduces 'dpkg --print-foreign-architectures'
<achiang> cjwatson: hm, i asked in #ubuntu-packaging but got impatient and re-asked here. i have source package 'foo' which generates N binary packages 'foo-alice', 'foo-bob', ...
<achiang> each binary package has their own maintainer scripts: foo-alice.install, foo-bob.install
<cjwatson> that's not a maintainer script - maintainer scripts are preinst, postinst, prerm, postrm
<achiang> i'm discovering a need to have foo-alice install a file on armel only, but not x86 (!i386, !amd64)
<cjwatson> .install files are dh_install configuration files
<StevenK> Then do that in the rules file
<achiang> i'm trying to see if there's an easier way to do this rather than create foo-alice-armel.install
<cjwatson> the usual way is to have foo-alice.install.in and run sed over it
<broder> RAOF: working on an oneiric SRU for hedgewars based on yesterday's discussion. does taking 0.9.17-1 from precise, applying http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/745496/ to it, and uploading to -proposed seem acceptable to you?
<RAOF> IIRC you _can_ have foo-alice.install.armel
<StevenK> Or just call install -m.... in the rules file directly
<cjwatson> RAOF: yeah, but you have to duplicate everything in the architecture-independent file
<RAOF> That is a bit annoying, yeah.
<achiang> well, the beauty here is that the file i want to install conflicts on x86
<StevenK> Replaces: ?
<StevenK> Which is a bit of a big hammer
<cjwatson> man debhelper, search for 'DEBHELPER CONFIG FILES'
<cjwatson> "In some rare cases, you may want to have different versions of these files for different architectures or OSes" ...
<RAOF> broder: That seems reasonable to me.
<cjwatson> StevenK: um
<cjwatson> doesn't make sense across architectures
<broder> RAOF: excellent. up it goes, then. (the SRU for older releases is more complicated, unfortunately, due to haskell stack churn, so i may delay on those)
<EvilResistance> broder, no progress on that blocking bug?
<achiang> RAOF: cjwatson: found what you guys are talking about in the debhelper man page. that solves my immediate problem, thank you. perhaps i can explain what i'm *really* doing to see if there's a better way to do it
<broder> EvilResistance: it has been escalated to the LP devs as being important to Ubuntu, which means they should be treating it as reasonably high priority
<broder> haven't seen any motion on it since then, though
<lifeless> broder: which bug in particular ?
<broder> (i believe that was about a week ago)
<EvilResistance> ah
<broder> lifeless: bug #888665
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888665
<lifeless> ah
<lifeless> thanks
<broder> hmm. no, it was escalated last thursday :)
<achiang> on this project i'm working on, we have a need to provide a fake dmidecode on armel, which of course doesn't exist. the solution we've come up with is to deliver a bash script called /usr/sbin/dmidecode that simply echoes the 2 fields we need
<broder> my sense of time is apparently just way off whack
<lifeless> achiang: you should compile it into upstart and hardlink that to dmidecode
<achiang> lifeless: well, we were hoping to avoid forking any more upstream packages; if we wanted to do that we could have just forked the dmidecode package and have it install our bash script on armel
<lifeless> achiang: YHBT, HTH, HAND
<achiang> we already have a big ugly package full of hacks
<lifeless> achiang: I was -totally- trolling based on systemd's approach to things.
<achiang> lifeless:  is it sad that i thought your solution was technically superior to my bash script? ;)
<lifeless> uhm
<lifeless> maybe?
<achiang> i'll just stick with what the debhelper man page says
<achiang> thanks all
<broder> does devscripts or u-d-t or similar have a "setup an schroot session with the build-deps for this package" script? it always seems like more labor than it should require
<helder_raptor> hi alll
<helder_raptor> when i type "apt-get install ****"....which script gets involved
<helder_raptor> and where do i find it?
<helder_raptor> when i type "apt-get install ****"....which script gets involved and where do i find it?
<micahg> helder_raptor: try 'which apt-get'
<helder_raptor> thnks
<helder_raptor> michag: didnt get wwhat i needed
<helder_raptor> michag: followed your way but ended up with an app
<helder_raptor> i need the script
<helder_raptor> #apt-get
<tumbleweed> broder: I start a build and press ctrl-c when the build-deps are in place :)
<dholbach> good morning
<broder> Laney: i've managed to get all of hedgewar's haskell dependencies sorted out except for Text.Show.ByteString, which is used in one file: showB = B.concat . BL.toChunks . BS.show
<broder> (BS is Text.Show.ByteString; B is Data.ByteString.Char8)
<broder> oh, and BL is Data.ByteString.Lazy
<Laney> backport haskell-bytestring-show too?
<broder> i think i might be able to replace the functoin with showB = read . show
<broder> and change the type declaration from (BS.Show a) => a -> B.ByteString to just (Show a) => a -> B.ByteString
<broder> (my very rudimentary skills with monad-free haskell started to come back to me when i started to dig)
<broder> bah. now it's failing to compile on code that's actually monadic
 * broder will try again tomorrow
<tumbleweed> broder: there, added existing bug report checking
<broder> sweet
<tumbleweed> you promised another bug report on requestbackport, can't remember what the issue was
<Laney> meow
 * Laney wget http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/merged.tar.gz
<broder> tumbleweed: checking non-release pockets
<tumbleweed> broder: hrm, how do you want to do that. Allow oneiric-security to be specified as a source?
<tumbleweed> Laney: did it break? :)
<broder> tumbleweed: uh, i think i'd prefer to always pull from the newest thing in (Release, Security, Updates) but i'm not sure
<Laney> have you been keeping it up to date?
<tumbleweed> Laney: it's a day or two old, see the stamp file
<tumbleweed> broder: that seems sane
<Laney> oh
<broder> tumbleweed: i would also phrase the bug as "please blah blah from oneiric-security"
<Laney> the stupid script uses the stamp file in the same cwd as itself
<Laney> that is annoying
<broder> which will break backport-helper, but i'll deal
<tumbleweed> Laney: I just copied what you did, but yes you'll probably want to move the stamp file)
<Laney> s/cwd/directory/
<tumbleweed> Laney: I'm pretty sure I saw some dups in there, btw
<Laney> yeah?
<tumbleweed> check the december 2011 mbox :P
<Laney> erm
 * tumbleweed grumbles about developers' clocks
<Laney> that is amusingly wrong
<Laney> i wonder if he had christmas already
<tumbleweed> I guess lpapicache isn't going to give me any alternative to walking the pockets
<broder> yeah, that's unfortunately a snippet of code i've had to write several times
<tumbleweed> next time you write it, put it in lpapicache
<tumbleweed> hang on, that's me
<broder> :)
<tumbleweed> damn
<broder> i think there's probably code in backportpackage you could steal
<tumbleweed> naah, you don't even use lpapicache
<broder> huh, i did. somebody must have changed it
<tumbleweed> ah, you use ubuntutools.archive
<tumbleweed> that was probably me who changed it
<tumbleweed> I probably broke this use-case in the process...
<Laney> the early history looks quite different
<Laney> hmm
<tumbleweed> straw poll: should "pull-lp-source foo lucid" use Release or highest non-backport version?
<tumbleweed> Laney: what sort of differences?
<Laney> well obviously the very early history isn't represented at all
<Laney> but then 2006-01 contains loads more stuff from the SPPHs
<Laney> even excluding langpacks
<tumbleweed> well obviously the SPPH stuff will have katie syncs, which -changes won't
<Laney> did they not always show up as being Ubuntu Archive Auto Sync
<Laney> or whatever it is
<Laney> ?
<tumbleweed> syncs that weren't explicitly requested don't show up on changes, IIRC
<tumbleweed> (but they did for a few weeks in early breezy)
<tumbleweed> you could see it here, (but not any more, I must have filtered it) http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/
<Laney> I thought you could identify autosyncs (from SPPHs) by changed-by
<Laney> maybe I am misremembering
<Laney> also greatest version is probably good as long as there is a way to get the release version
<tumbleweed> Laney: thanks, I was thinking -release for that
<tumbleweed> (because it's trivial) :P
<Laney> wfm
<Laney> if documented etc
<tumbleweed> pish, documentation :P
<Laney> what happened in 2005-12?
<Laney> -rw-r--r-- 1 laney Debian  297 Nov 21 00:41 ubuntu-changes-2005-11.mbox.out.gz
<ubottu> Error: Debian bug 297 could not be found
<Laney> -rw-r--r-- 1 laney Debian 1.3M Nov 21 00:41 ubuntu-changes-2005-12.mbox.out.gz
<Laney> -rw-r--r-- 1 laney Debian 119K Nov 21 00:41 ubuntu-changes-2006-01.mbox.out.gz
<ubottu> Error: Debian bug 119 could not be found
<tumbleweed> Laney: from my previous graph, that looks like it matches our current data
<Laney> this is what i have in the current files
<Laney> -rw-r--r-- 1 laney Debian  90K Oct 24 21:31 ubuntu-changes-2005-11.mbox.out.gz
<Laney> -rw-r--r-- 1 laney Debian  87K Oct 24 21:31 ubuntu-changes-2005-12.mbox.out.gz
<Laney> -rw-r--r-- 1 laney Debian  84K Oct 24 21:31 ubuntu-changes-2006-01.mbox.out.gz
<tumbleweed> something broken in lp during that time?
<Laney> was that when soyuz started being used maybe?
<Laney> cjwatson: does your memory go back this far?
<tumbleweed> we need an ubuntu historian
<Laney> where's that thar infinity
<Laney> anyway, the data is probably not reliable before then
 * ajmitch still has mailboxes from that era
<Laney> heh
<Laney> any of them announce this new soyuz thing?
<ajmitch> not that I can tell from the headers
<ajmitch> I'm just looking at dapper-changes
<tumbleweed> the web archives show activity, but LP SPPH doesn't
<tumbleweed> picked one at random
<tumbleweed> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2005-November/000497.html is placed on 21 Dec by SPPH
<tumbleweed> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2005-November/000545.html doesn't show up at all
<micahg> tumbleweed: is that when it was superseded?
<micahg> nope, theory out the window :)
<tumbleweed> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2005-November/000580.html also 21st Dec
 * tumbleweed looks at ubuntu devel for that month
<tumbleweed> Firefox 1.5 out :P
<micahg> \o/
<micahg> if you look at it from the perspective of 1.5 to 8 in 6 years, it looks pretty normal :)
<tumbleweed> naww, nothing I can see
<Laney> errrrm
<Laney> i only just got the joke behind the name "malone"
<Laney> :-)
<tumbleweed> which is?
<Laney> bugsy malone
<tumbleweed> oh, duh :)
<Laney> tumbleweed: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-February/000072.html
<Laney> thanks to wgrant
<Laney> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-February/014998.html
<Laney> this is amusing too
<tumbleweed> yeah, I was about to comment on "The procedure for uploads, syncs, removal and backport requests is also unchanged (for now)."
<ajmitch> syncs via LP were just around the corner back then
<Laney> there were roadworks on the corner unfortunately
<tumbleweed> broder: there, made lpapicache smarter and removed your code for doing this from backportpackage.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-23
<cjwatson> Laney: that sounds like about when we switched to Soyuz for publishing Ubuntu
<cjwatson> Laney: oh, you found that
<cjwatson> Laney: "malone" is my fault, I think :)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> more fool me for not getting it
<cjwatson> we did an awful lot of silly name brainstorming back then
<cjwatson> IIRC Launchpad is Launchpad's third name
<ajmitch> there are worse names, at least
 * Laney discovers "Fir,  21 Jul 2006 04:48:23 +0200"
<Laney> people do weird things to their changesfiles
 * ajmitch is innocent of that
<tumbleweed> Laney: we also skipped some because they were non english months, like Mei
<Laney> the past is a place full of gremlins
<Laney> it is funny how insanely sidetracked this has become from my original goal
<Laney> "find the packages uploaded most often to ubuntu relative to debian"
<tumbleweed> hah
<tumbleweed> and I just wanted to get components in
<ajmitch> Laney: too much yak shaving
<Laney> we have a more generally useful resource now!
<ajmitch> yay!
<Laney> psycopg2.DataError: time zone displacement out of range: "Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:43:00 +2000"
<ajmitch> it can shave all sortf of animals & paint the bikeshed any colour you want?
<ajmitch> +2000 would be doing pretty well
<Laney> naughty till
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> up to 2009-07
<Laney> it is amusing how many dates are wrong
<Laney> p.s. morning all
<Laney> argh, so close, 2011-09
<nigelb> Morning Laney.
<nigelb> Laney: What are you doing with dates? :)
<Laney> just the usual
<Laney> (trying to take over the world)
<nigelb> We have to get back to the lab.
<nigelb> (Pinky and the Brain <3)
<Laney> yay, imported!
<tumbleweed> Laney: \o/
<tumbleweed> Laney: I still see a fair number of entries with component=N/A
<tumbleweed> where did they come from?
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> what dates?
<tumbleweed> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/746991/
<Laney> pre 2006-03 is the mbox data
<tumbleweed> ah
<Laney> have you regenerated your data?
<Laney> is there any progress on the ubuntuwire mirror?
<tumbleweed> is there any reason to regenerate it?
<tumbleweed> nope
<tumbleweed> it took the best part of two weeks to generate that lot, so I have no plans of doing it again (although at least we know we can do it now, so it can probably be done in one go in a day or two)
<Laney> oh, no, I meant the stats
<tumbleweed> yeah, that'll be easier when we have a UDD mirror on syklone
<tumbleweed> it requires a lot of launchpadlib digging, and access to UDD, which means I can't really do it at home
<tumbleweed> Laney: been trying to run it at university, and now I'm finding "interesting" properties of our data :P
<Laney> too awesome for words
<tumbleweed> names like Foo <foo <foo@bar>>
<tumbleweed> and e-mail addresses like that too
<Laney> ruh roh
<Laney> ah, it's not so many
<tumbleweed> yeah
<Laney> this is stuff that is broken in changelogs
<Laney> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.35/linux-backports-modules-2.6.35_2.6.35-6.1/changelog for example
<tumbleweed> our developers suck :P
<tumbleweed> ok, but if we know it's happening, we can fix it
<tumbleweed> hrm, we don't seem to credit backports very well
<Laney> that is dodgy in general
<tumbleweed> changed_by = "Ubuntu Archive Backport", signed_by = N/A
<Laney> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58477868/wesnoth-1.8_1.8.5-1~karmic1_source.changes
<Laney> maybe it's a different backporting script?
<Laney> most of them look right to me
<tumbleweed> Laney: they're ok, but there's no attribution to the requestor
<Laney> that is the way it works
<tumbleweed> Laney: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/ updated
<Daviey> tumbleweed: why are you splitting the uploads between canonical and community?  Isn't everyone just a ubuntu developer?
<sladen> Daviey: perhaps it depends on the amount of duress ;-)
<Daviey> meh, i don't like there being a division.
<cjwatson> geez.  somebody else upload stuff to precise. :-)
<funkyHat> â¢D
<tumbleweed> Daviey: I wanted to see if MOTU really was dead
<Daviey> tumbleweed: am i not a MOTU?
<tumbleweed> Daviey: the evidence doesn't seem very clear, if you count uploads (as unuseful a mesaure as that is)
<tumbleweed> Daviey: sure, and I have no easy way of handling that
<tumbleweed> I was looking for trends. I didn't find anything I was expecting to
<tumbleweed> I'd love to add graphs that show more interesting trends, and get rid of the less interesting ones :P
<Daviey> tumbleweed: Yeah, i don't mean to be an ass; but i wanted to outline that many canonical people do consider themselves community developers aswell.
<Daviey> tumbleweed: How about measure uploads by canonical at silly'o-clock in the morning? :)
<tumbleweed> heh
<tumbleweed> I knew the fallacies involved in that, but wanted to get a feeling for how much is done by non-canonical people
<tumbleweed> it's suprisingly steady
<tumbleweed> (although the canonical vs community groupings are entirely thumbsucked)
<Daviey> right
<jtaylor> so my motu application is finally sent :)
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: 4 endorsements already :P
<tumbleweed> we need more applicants like this
<jtaylor> I though you need to gather them before you apply?
<tumbleweed> yes, right, the instructions say that. I think part of the reason for the 7 day againg was for people who follow devel-permissions to add comments and endorsements, too
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: nice to see the cjwatson vs the world graph updated for precise :)
<tumbleweed> the dangers of simply counting uploads
<tumbleweed> although, that said, he does a staggering amount of work :)
<ajmitch> when more than half a graph is dominated by one person, I think you can say that
<tumbleweed> there is also quite a long tail, that is cut off, but yes, you can still say that
<cjwatson> it's a shame it's hard to identify rebuilds, because those really don't represent the same kind of work at all
<tumbleweed> a single upload of something one has spent 6 months slaving over also only counts as 1. There are no easy ways out of that
<tumbleweed> (I could easily exclude buildX uploads, though)
<tumbleweed> iamfuzz: your ruby-rvm postinst assumes that there's an admin group, but that isn't there on a minimal install. Looking after that package?
<broder> there isn't in general anymore, is there? i thought we were dropping the admin group for precise and replacing it with the sudo group
<tumbleweed> jocky still creates it
<tumbleweed> jockey
<broder> huh
<tumbleweed> which package was supposed to be creating it? sudo? I looked didn't see a maintainer script that looked responsible
<iamfuzz> tumbleweed, yea, I can give it a look
<iamfuzz> I need to update it at some point anyway
<tumbleweed> yeah, I saw a bug requesting that :)
<micahg> jtaylor: thanks for putting your MOTU app in :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-24
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> hiya
<nigelb> Morning!
<Greenberet> hello, i want to package some custom scripts into an *.deb. I have already the directory structure with ./debian/control ./debian/compat and so on. But where do I have to put my scripts so that "debuild -us -uc -b -ai386" will import them?
<akheron> Greenberet: in your own directory, debian/scripts/ for example, and then make dh_install install them to /usr/bin/ or wherever
<Greenberet> thx i will try
<Greenberet> it works =) thx for your help akheron
<l3on> Hi all... someone of you knows some reason why I souldn't merge binutils-z80 ?
<l3on> I'm doing it..
<lgp171188> Hi, I am getting started on Debian/Ubuntu packaging. And one of the things that I thought I could package was 'pony-mode', an emacs mode for Django, that is not yet in Debian repositories, but I love using it. Though the packaging guide tells a lot about packaging process, I couldn't understand/find out where to start with this. The source code for this software is hosted on Github. I am not sure if it should be packaged for Debian or
<lgp171188> directly for Ubuntu. Should I create a source package or a binary package or both. Would love some help/guidance on this.
<lgp171188> And I hope I am asking in the correct channel :-)
<geser> lgp171188: I don't time right now to answer all your questions but you need to build a source package (both Debian and Ubuntu build the binary packages from the source package) and it sounds like the package would be also useful for Debian too (so both Debian and Ubuntu (and other Debian-based distributions) can profit from your packaging)
<l3on> Sorry I meant "resolvconf"
<tumbleweed> lgp171188: it doesn't make much difference whether you are packaging for debian or ubuntu
<tumbleweed> lgp171188: but yes, getting it into Ubuntu via debian is the ideal solution
<tumbleweed> l3on: I know there are other things that need to happen on resolvconf too (someone had an upstratification patch that should probably be looked at)
<l3on> I made the package... we could try it and the repackage again when a new version will come.. or not?
<lgp171188> tumbleweed: Hmmm, makes sense. But I am still kind of confused about whether source and/or binary package should be built since the code for the module is hosted on Github.
<tumbleweed> l3on: no, I mean there are things that need to happen to it in Ubuntu (besides merging)
<tumbleweed> lgp171188: right, it doesn't look like the developer has made any releases yet (this is becoming rather common :/ the ruby mentality... )
<l3on> tumbleweed, ah ok... :)
<tumbleweed> lgp171188: I'd just start by grabbing a tarball of the current master tip
<l3on> tumbleweed, I can use this log as comment in bug report?
<l3on> bug 894417
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 894417 in resolvconf (Ubuntu) "Please merge resolvconf 1.61 (universe) from Debian unstable " [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894417
<tumbleweed> lgp171188: name it something like pony-mode_0+git20111124.orig.tar.gz (I'm using 0+git20111124-1 as the debian version)
<tumbleweed> lgp171188: later, we can add a script to automatically build a .orig.tar.gz from the git branch, but for now, just get a working package going
<tumbleweed> l3on: sorry, I don't understand that question
 * tumbleweed has to go out now
<l3on> ok, forget :)
<Laney> speak to the last merger
<lgp171188> tumbleweed: ok, let me try that and get back :-)
<l3on> Laney, in m.u.com was written: "feel free to take"
<Laney> ok
<lgp171188> tumbleweed: What do you mean by saying "it doesn't look like the developer has made any releases yet". Isn't the source code available? I can't understand.
<lgp171188> tumbleweed: And the author has marked the existing code as 0.3, so shouldn't we be naming the tarball as pony-mode0.3-0ubuntu1.orig.tar.gz instead of +git<today's date> ?
<g0twig> hey
<g0twig> is here the team that makes the 12.04 isoÂ´s ?
<cjwatson> g0twig: probably easier to just ask your question directly, as there's a lot of stuff in the images and it's dealt with by lots of different people
<g0twig> I want to build my own image based on ubuntu with seedÂ´s
<g0twig> like the ubuntu builds are made
<cjwatson> shnatsel was working on some third-party documentation for that recently; our own documentation for that unfortunately kind of sucks
<cjwatson> for third-party builds it's probably simplest to use live-build
<g0twig> cjwatson: jeah I know that from shnatsel. But I heard that it doesnt realy works for him.
<cjwatson> I left feedback on his google doc
<g0twig> cjwatson: why do the people that are doing the builds not help him
<g0twig> cjwatson: gottag link for me?
<g0twig> "gotta"
<cjwatson> I did that by leaving feedback on his google doc!
<cjwatson> sorry, not easily, ask him?
<g0twig> cjwatson: he sent me a link already, but I forgot it.
<g0twig> cjwatson: or I lost it, what ever :/ so you, too?
<cjwatson> TBH I'm not keen on inflicting the build system we use on others; live-build is much better at being customisable easily by third parties
<cjwatson> ours is optimised for dealing with lots of flavours on lots of architectures at scale with low maintenance
<cjwatson> which is not what most people need
<cjwatson> the code's in lp:ubuntu-cdimage and the livecd-rootfs package, but deploying it is fairly complex
<g0twig> cjwatson: I noted that
<g0twig> cjwatson: :/
<g0twig> I would like to help the elementary OS team with it
<g0twig> to build their isoÂ´s. I already helped them with Jupiter, what was made with live-build, so trough chroot (?), but it was not a good way.
<cjwatson> I don't see what's wrong with them using live-build
<g0twig> maybe I should ask the people from debian?
<cjwatson> or maybe livecd-rootfs
<cjwatson> which is built on top of Debian's tools
<g0twig> cjwatson: does "live-cd" use chroot?
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> there's no sensible way to build a live filesystem without chrooting at some point; I don't understand how else you think it should be done?
<g0twig> cjwatson: but the ubuntu build system does also use chroot, right :P?
<g0twig> cjwatson: yes
<cjwatson> chroot is hardly a major design feature, it's just one tool ...
<g0twig> cjwatson: elementary wants an arm build..
<cjwatson> so they'll need an arm builder to build it on
<g0twig> cjwatson: do you know how mint does their isoÂ´s? it canÂ´t be live-cd :/?
<cjwatson> I neither know nor care, they impose a burden on Ubuntu
<cjwatson> (e.g. they don't take care to redirect their bugs away from us)
<cjwatson> the Ubuntu builds work by building the live filesystem on machines of the appropriate architecture, and then assembling those filesystems on a central system
<cjwatson> so livecd-rootfs (which uses live-build) is used on ARM just as it is on any other architecture
<g0twig> cjwatson: elementary also discussed to become a spin of ubuntu..
<cjwatson> of course if you're building for multiple architectures you can't *just* build everything in a chroot (well, you could with user-mode emulation, but it would be very slow); but chroots are certainly involved, just on the other end of ssh to a machine of the appropriate architecture
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedDerivatives has the criteria for becoming a flavour that we build
<g0twig> cjwatson: thanks for your support
<timonia> hello ubuntu community. Can anyone help me find and fix my first bug :). I don't have any prior experience and lot of theoretical knowledge :( . By fixing bugs I wish to learn the practical aspects of programming :)
<timonia> anyone?
<EvilResistance> timonia, if i may ask, what's your background?  because theoretical knowledge without prior experience in specific coding languages might make some things difficult...
<EvilResistance> as well, you sometimes run into conflicting coding styles
<EvilResistance> but that's less likely ;P
<timonia> EvilResistance, i have experience but not on a large codebase. btw I know C/C++ have a good command over algorithms and I can read and understand code. But never contributed to any open source project before
<timonia> So i wish to start from Ubuntu which I guess I love the most amongst all the FOSS I use
<timonia> EvilResistance, and best of all if that I am motivated and willing to learn things :0
<EvilResistance> :P
<timonia> :)
<timonia> so any suggestions?
<EvilResistance> then you've got most of the coding background needed for most of the things i've seen.  although... i'm not an MOTU, nor do i have the ability right now to troll through the bugs (stuck on IRSSI on a CLI only machine)
<EvilResistance> if i had any suggestions i'd throw them your way
<micahg> timonia: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/fixing-a-bug.html, you might also want to look for the bitesize tag on harvest (mentioned at the beginning of the link), thanks for your interest!
<timonia> micahg, thankyou
<micahg> timonia: if you run into any issues, feel free to ask here
<timonia> I will :)
<chrisccoulson> is anyone finnish in here?
<nigelb> chrisccoulson: You probably want jussi. He's australian, but shown know something finnish :)
<chrisccoulson> nigelb, ah, thanks
<chrisccoulson> i was just wondering why finnish people install the mozvoikko extension in firefox :)
<nigelb> chrisccoulson: :)
<nigelb> Ugh, also s/shown/should/g
<EvilResistance> nigelb, whats the g at the end there?
<EvilResistance> denotes something about case or whatnot?
<nigelb> g I think means all instances.
<micahg> "globally"
<nigelb> Aha!
<nigelb> Thanks micahg :)
<ajmitch> launchpad bug listing is looking a bit different today
<nigelb> custom bug listing landed?
<ajmitch> at least in beta, so maybe it's only on for some teams
<nigelb> yeah, its probably open to beta testers now
<nigelb> Its an amazing feature :)
<ajmitch> though the cog to change columns isn't the most visible when I've just woken up :)
<nigelb> File a bug!
<nigelb> :)
<ajmitch> I'll have to, I can't sort by the columns that I added!
<sladen> chrisccoulson: lots of FI people: mika, antti, jussi, vesar, tjaalton, amitk, â¦
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-25
<G> nigelb: I = all instances? (of what? ;))
<broder> ScottK, Laney, tumbleweed, micahg: i've finished my draft of the new docs for backports if you guys would like to read them - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nAk3tJN_G5TOI4RucVudI0xGPqmRO2ZFWV9UEwr01qM/edit
<micahg> broder: thanks, will try to get to it this weekend
<broder> i'm also happy to mail out edit links if people want them; i just didn't want to make it publicly editable
<nigelb> Laney: Morning! Around?
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> morning nigelb
<nigelb> Laney: There was someone in #ubuntu-classroom looking to help Ubuntu development. I refered them to #ubuntu-motu. I thought I'd hand off to you :)
<Laney> i'm sure all of us in here can help out :-)
<nigelb> That's ankit-tulsyan in #ubuntu-devel.
<Laney> good, he got some help already
<jfi> Hello, universe package should be build against gtk3 instead of gtk2 if possible? (for precise)
<Laney> that would be nice
<Laney> hm, requestbackport didn't ask me to check the package installs and runs
<tumbleweed> that's one of the checkboxes i nthe report you edit
<Laney> nein
<Laney> that's what i mean
<tumbleweed> Laney: which package?
<Laney> haskell-hashtables
<Laney> * oneiric:
<Laney> [ ] Package builds without modification
<Laney> No reverse dependencies
<tumbleweed> it didn't see any published binaries, I'm guessing
<Laney> aha
<tumbleweed> ok, so we should add a check there
<tumbleweed> we should wait for packages to get trhough NEW before allowing backport requests
<tumbleweed> is that reasonable policy?
<tumbleweed> broder: read your draft this morning. I'm not convinced we should be telling people how to install from backports by default
<Laney> maybe make sure the package has at least one published binary
<tumbleweed> yup, that's the easy check :)
<tumbleweed> committed
<Laney> rock
<Laney> still filing this request :P
<Laney> oh, er, HTTP Error 400: Bad Request
<Laney> apparently not
<tumbleweed> presumably that's the newline in title issue
<tumbleweed> oh, no, that was uploaded
<Laney> i'll try from bzr
<Laney> wait, it won't let me file it now
<Laney> FOILED!
<Laney>   File "/srv/home/laney/bin/ubuntu-dev-tools/ubuntutools/question.py", line 195, in get_report
<Laney>     title = u' '.join(match.group(1).spit(u'\n'))
<Laney> AttributeError: 'unicode' object has no attribute 'spit'
<Laney> :P
<tumbleweed> :)
<tumbleweed> grumble, that means I should do another ubuntu-dev-tools upload, because requestsync will also be broken
 * tumbleweed could have sworn he tested this
<tumbleweed> err, no it was post 0.136
<verwilst> Uploading libjavascript-minifier-perl_1.05-1ppa1_source.changes: 1k/2k550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied. Note: This error might indicate a problem with your passive_ftp setting.
<verwilst> w0t?
<verwilst> i signed it just fine
<Laney> launchpad bug
<Laney> it'll be accepted
<verwilst> ah ok :) yeah just got the mails :)
<broder> tumbleweed: i certainly wouldn't recommend it, but if somebody wanted to pin backports back to 500 i don't see any reason to stop them. i've done that before (before notautomatic) and it's  been fine
<broder> i'm not generally a fan of omitting information from docs as a way to prevent people from doing things, because it doesn't work and they just end up getting bad information elsewhere
<broder> and there are at least 3 different points where "the Ubuntu Backporters Team recommends that you configure Backports in manual mode" :)
<tumbleweed> that's a reasonable argument
<tumbleweed> yes, it does say that quite clearly
<tumbleweed> broder: at any rate, no complaints from me. It looks reasonable
<tumbleweed> and yes, it is still long-winded :)
<broder> yeah, i'm not really sure what to do there. i may settle for the "you know, if you had read the docs <links to relevant section> you wouldn't asking this question" approach
<tumbleweed> :)
<Laney> "Functionality the Backported package" â "â¦ofâ¦"
<Laney> I don't like admitting that is our standard for running, and prefer people to actually test stuff at least a bit
<Laney> any developer can upload a backport, and actually I'd rather not be on the hook for everything I approve
<Laney> similarly can we fix the script or workflow to credit properly?
<Laney> (the no-change script)
<Laney> not that it's clear what 'properly' means
<Laney> broder: feedback
 * Laney PUB
<nigelb> He turned into a Pub.
 * tumbleweed is still pretty broken from last night's pubbing
<broder> Laney: sorry, went back to sleep for a few hours :)
<broder> i'll fix the typos and i don't mind removing the definition of "running"
<broder> and i originally had backport-helper give credit to the bug reporter; cjwatson asked me to change it
<broder> i guess if there was some way to set both changed-by and signed-by....
<broder> did we ever figure out whether backports can be uploaded by anybody on ubuntu-dev or just motu and core-dev?
<micahg> broder: I still thought it was you can upload whatever you have rights to upload
<micahg> broder: unless ubuntu-backporters has special rights, go try to upload pidgin to -backports and see if you get rejected :)
<ajmitch> oh, can I, please? :)
<cjwatson> broder: as currently implemented, any restriction to motu and core-dev will be for packages that require overrides - so anything not in the distroseries being backported to
<Laney> EL PUB!
 * Laney swooshes his cape
<Laney> dear doom bar, why are you so nice yet so naughty?
<ItalianNewbie> Hi
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-26
<broder> micahg: as i've said at the TB meetings, i don't think anybody understands how the backports pocket works right now. but i'm pretty sure i've seen uploads from either me or Laney for main packages
<broder> but i didn't think it was connected to upload rights to the release pocket
<jtaylor> what is the backport-package versioning going to do when the release names go beyond z?
<geser> jtaylor: I assume it's not decided yet what happens to the versioning scheme to assure the monotic increase of version numbers
<mdeslaur> jtaylor: use release numbers instead of release names?
<jtaylor> so it wil probably change before r to get something like r14.04?
<geser> mdeslaur: don't numbers sort before letters?
<mdeslaur> geser: what's the versioning scheme for backports now?
<geser> jtaylor: or perhaps for "u" (u14.04)
<jtaylor> mdeslaur ~releasename#
<mdeslaur> so just eventually switch to ~10.04.1 or something
<mdeslaur> oh, I see the issue, if you already have some with names
<geser> dpkg --compare-versions 1~precise1 gt 1~12.04.1 && echo yes => yes
<mdeslaur> yes, you'll need to use versions instead of names for all releases, without mixing them
<geser> perhaps we switch to unicode release names after "z" :)
<mdeslaur> you're assuming release names will continue alphabetically...honestly, I don't think that's set in stone
<mdeslaur> maybe versions numbers should be used soon
<jtaylor> might be a good idea
<jtaylor> as long as we still have letters left with which we can prefix the number to be compatible with the old scheme
<mdeslaur> you don't need to be compatible with the old scheme, the next release's version is always higher
<geser> jtaylor: it's only a problem if there are existing backports with the same upstream version
<mdeslaur> jtaylor: do you have an example of a source package that would be problematic now?
<jtaylor> no, but I assume it could happen
<mdeslaur> it could, would probably just be a couple of exceptions
<mdeslaur> so a few get named ~z12.04.1
<mdeslaur> meh
<geser> I'm still thinking in which case one might need that (assuming nobody uses the version name instead of the release number by mistake)
<l3on> Hi guys... how can I know the reason due a packages is no more in Ubuntu ?
<l3on> for example, last build of root-system is for maverick...
<and`> l3on: check for it on Debian and look around for an RM bug, packages dropped in Debian are automatically dropped in Ubuntu as well
<jtaylor> root-system may be added again at some point
<jtaylor> I think last time it was removed due to lack of a maintainer
<l3on> thanks and` :)
<and`> l3on: yw :) as a reference http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/r/root-system/root-system_5.18.00-2.3~lenny1/changelog
<jtaylor> its not hard to build it yourself though
<and`> l3on: last upload dated 2009 :)
<and`> l3on: and http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=610011
<ubottu> Debian bug 610011 in ftp.debian.org "RM: root-system -- RoQA; unmaintained, plenty of RC bugs" [Normal,Open]
<jtaylor> on oneiric you need to use trunk or build without as-needed
<jtaylor> 5.30 does not work with as-needed
<l3on> mmm well.. it could be nice find out a new maintainer :D
<l3on> I'll try to pack it for debian, we'll see...
<jtaylor> it sort of has
<jtaylor> packaging root is no easy task
<jtaylor> its a huge framework
<l3on> Hi all.. someone aroud?
<l3on> I'm trying to merge forked-daapd
<l3on> but I've some problem during configure:
<l3on> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find crt1.o: No such file or directory
<l3on> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find crti.o: No such file or directory
<l3on> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
<l3on> build log is here: http://debomatic.debian.net/precise/pool/forked-daapd_0.19gcd-2ubuntu1/forked-daapd_0.19gcd-2ubuntu1.buildlog
<l3on> On 11.10 "make -f debian/rules build" does not fail at that step...
<Ampelbein> l3on: Yes, that's bug 792146
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 792146 in clang (Ubuntu) "clang canât link any programs: cannot find crt1.o, crti.o, crtn.o" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/792146
<l3on> Ampelbein, but in 11.10 configure works fine :/
<l3on> the problem is in precise
<Ampelbein> l3on: Yes, because precise wasn't added yet as a ubuntu distro.
<l3on> Ampelbein, and so... what have I to do ? :)
<Ampelbein> l3on: (In clang's ToolChains.cpp)
<Ampelbein> l3on: You'd have to add precise in clang-2.9/tools/clang/lib/Driver/ToolChains.cpp in clang.
<l3on> ah ok, Ampelbein I'll do it :)
<l3on> Ampelbein, in this case I've to send patch at debian, right?
<Ampelbein> l3on: Ideally, yes. But Ubuntu works well, too.
<l3on> Ampelbein, one question about clang... but no-supported ubuntu releases can be removed ?
<Ampelbein> l3on: They could be removed, yes.
<l3on> Ampelbein, should I add ubuntu+1 too ?
<l3on> mmm... does Ubuntu (Q) have a name? :P
<broder> l3on: not yet. n+1 is not generally announced until just before n releases
<l3on> ah ok :)
<broder> l3on: did you ever put a patch for clang together? i'd be happy to upload it
<l3on> broder, I did
<l3on> bug 896695
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 896695 in clang (Ubuntu) "Please add support for Precise in clang" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/896695
<broder> l3on: ok. i think i'm going to dupe that bug to bug #792146, tweak the changelog, double-check the patch, and upload. sound good?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 792146 in clang (Ubuntu) "clang canât link any programs: cannot find crt1.o, crti.o, crtn.o" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/792146
<l3on> broder, ok :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-27
<broder> l3on: actually, it looks like there have been a handful of uploads to the debian clang package. would you mind looking at this and seeing if they're worth merging?
<broder> ugh, including a soname bump
<l3on> broder, what you mean? :) I'm new in merging :P
<broder> me too :-P
<broder> ok, it looks like the new version of clang is being held in debian unstable because of unmet dependencies, so let's hold off on that and just fix the package for now
<l3on> great :)
<l3on> broder, should I send my patch somewhere?
<broder> l3on: probably. i would start by trying to figure out if upstream clang has any multiarch-awareness. if it does, that'd be the place to send the patch
<broder> if not, grab the latest package from debian unstable, update its ubuntu support, and file a debian bug asking very nicely if they'd take the patch
<andersk> l3on: Have you tested that patch?  The equivalent patch didnât work in oneiric, and I donât see any reason for it to work in precise either.
<broder> andersk: really? i can link simple executables with oneiric's clang package out of box
<l3on> andersk, me too...
<l3on> I mean... I built a package in oneiric, that fail in precise
<l3on> bug 896668
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 896668 in forked-daapd (Ubuntu) "Please merge forked-daapd 0.19gcd-2 (universe) from Debian unstable " [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/896668
<andersk> Interesting.  It was still failing for me in oneiric as of 2011-10-14.  But Iâve since upgraded to precise, and I canât reproduce on oneiric anymore.
<broder> i'm planning to test-build and test the packages before i upload, so i'll be sure it works
<andersk> Anyway, can we write this patch in such a way that it doesnât automatically break every six months?
<broder> andersk: i'm open to suggestions
<broder> l3on: by the way, the debdiff you uploaded is missing a trailing newline, and it confuses patch. i'll work around it, just fyi
<l3on> is it the last line, right ?
<broder> yeah, there's no newline at the end
<broder> andersk: but i think a long-term fix should be discussed with upstream or at least debian, and i don't think fixing the package as it exists now should block on that
<andersk> Like, if the distributor is Ubuntu but the codename is not one of warty, hoary, â¦, oneiric, precise, then it must be a future Ubuntu release, so we should assume it behaves the same as precise until we learn otherwise.
<l3on> it's strange.. when I use gmail to send patch, if the last line is empty on LP line is replaced with a blank space... strange.
<broder> l3on: ^ you want to try and do that?
<andersk> See http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-dev/2011-June/015545.html for my last attempt to argue with upstream about this stupidity.
<l3on> broder, I'll try ... :)
<broder> l3on: ok. i'll wait to upload then
<l3on> let me collect idea :D
<l3on> mmm... upstream o debian?
<andersk> Both.
<l3on> andersk, broder â http://paste.ubuntu.com/750929/
<l3on> what do you think about ?
<l3on> that's the text I'll file as bug in upstream
<andersk> Include a reference to my cfe-dev thread?  http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-dev/2011-June/015545.html
<andersk> Iâm pretty convinced that the right upstream solution is to switch back to calling gcc as a linker wrapper, like clang 2.8 did.
<l3on> well andersk it seems you know more then me :D
<l3on> And I'm a bit confused about what write :P
<l3on> broder, could you merge the clang bugs ?
<broder> l3on: merge? we don't have bug merges, we have duplicate bugs
<l3on> just to make a note about patch ...
<l3on> ah ok... :)
<l3on> anyway... bug filed in upstream and linked in LP discussion
<l3on> we'll see
<l3on> :)
<andersk> No matter what happens upstream, we should probably try to get Debian to do something about this.
<andersk> The LLVM 3.0 release is scheduled in 4 days and probably wonât have this fixed.  Debian probably wonât have 3.0 for a while after that, and 3.1 for an even longer while after that.
<broder> ScottK: can i get you to add backportbot to ubuntu-backporters?
<micahg> broder: umm, I wouldn't be so happy about that once ubuntu-backporters has archive perms
<broder> micahg: it's entirely under my control
<broder> it's equivalent to giving me access, and i'm not planning to login anywhere i wouldn't login myself
<micahg> broder: I didn't realize we had so many old open backport requests
<broder> neither did i until today :)
<broder> at some point i'm also going to go through and do something with requests matching /from (dapper|edgy|feisty|gutsy|intrepid|etc)/
<broder> (i'd mark them as incomplete if we expired bugs. as it is, i'm not sure what i'm going to do; i'm inclined to mark won't fix and encourage people to re-open)
<micahg> broder: the thing with the bot is that it's always on (usually on a server), so if that server is somewhere that's open to the world, there's a higher level of risk involved than a personal system which is probably either not always connected or behind some type of firewall/router
<micahg> broder: won't fix seems appropriate for the task since it's a backport per project instead of series
<micahg> also, if we can get people to use the new requestbackport tool, that would be a win as well
<broder> is it possible for the bot to get bug triaging powers without adding it to ubuntu-backporters?
<micahg> well, that would require making a new bug supervisor team for the backport projects with ubuntu-backporters + whoever as members (might not be a bad idea anyways)
<micahg> but best to discuss with ScottK when he's available
<l3on> Debian bug 646350
<ubottu> Debian bug 646350 in src:mupdf "mupdf: FTBFS with -Werror=format-security" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/646350
<jtaylor> what happened with this backport: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyzmq/2.1.7-1~natty1
<jtaylor> i386 is "building" since weeks and others never started
<Ampelbein> Quick question about sponsor-patch. I want to use it to acknowledge sync request in bug 896849 but all I get is http://paste.ubuntu.com/751396/. What am I doing wrong?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 896849 in transgui (Ubuntu) "Sync transgui 3.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/896849
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: hrm, I get an OOPS when I try and look at the build record
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: but IIRC, it was blocked on backports building against backports
<jtaylor> me too
<tumbleweed> Ampelbein: -s
<tumbleweed> I guess we should improve that error...
<jtaylor> the armel log looks weird too
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: Thanks. I guess there is no way to skip test building (I've done that manually before).
<tumbleweed> were the builds killed maybe?
<tumbleweed> Ampelbein: -u ubuntu
<tumbleweed> (instead of -s(
<tumbleweed> broder: Any reason backport-helper doesn't link to the tracking bug in the changelog?
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: Thanks. Apparently I was mistaken about what sponsor-patch does for syncs.
<tumbleweed> ack-sync used to syncpackage
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: I thought it would either set bug to confirmed and add a comment like "Sync acked" OR use the lp function to sync the package from debian.
<tumbleweed> (well, at some point we made it not do that any more)
<tumbleweed> yeah, we aren't doing native syncs in it, because natvie syncs can't indicate sponsorship yet
<Ampelbein> I see.
<tumbleweed> so, yes it just adds a comment
<tumbleweed> but leaves poking archive admins to you :)
<Ampelbein> Hmm, ok. ;-)
<l3on> hi all.. someone could tell me which tags I should add at debian bug 650180 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 650180 in metis-edf "metis-edf: FTBFS - missing link at math" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/650180
<Ampelbein> Btw, this could be improved, too: http://paste.ubuntu.com/751409/
<jtaylor> some add-needed tags
<jtaylor> one moment
<l3on> tnx :)
<jtaylor> http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking#Not_resolving_symbols_in_indirect_dependent_shared_libraries
<jtaylor> does it fail in debian?
<l3on> jtaylor, what do you mean?... if in debian build fails ?
<jtaylor> ah no its not add-needed
<l3on> I'm started work with build fail in Ubuntu, as reported here: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/83736713/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.metis-edf_4.1-2-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jtaylor> its actually underlinking which causes problem with as-needed, http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking#Only_link_with_needed_libraries
<l3on> submitted the fist debian bug 650178
<ubottu> Debian bug 650178 in metis-edf "metis-edf: FTBFS with -Werror=format-security" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/650178
<l3on> and then the second one :)
<tumbleweed> Ampelbein: that simply looks like a bug (the non-test-building code paths not getting enough testing)
<jtaylor> who do I have to talk to to get that backport issue resolved? #launchpad?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: I don't know what happned there, but there's no point worrying about it until bug 888665 is solved
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888665
<jtaylor> ah ok
<l3on> tumbleweed, one week has gone... debian bug 649322
<ubottu> Debian bug 649322 in clearsilver "clearsilver: FTBFS with -Werror=format-security" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/649322
<l3on> should we adopt changes in ubuntu ?
<jtaylor> no too early
<jtaylor> we should first wait for the toolchain to be fixed
<l3on> ok :)
<tumbleweed> l3on: an hour after you left the channel, after filing that:
<tumbleweed> 02:16 < cjwatson> clearsilver, in scrollback: please don't touch that
<tumbleweed> 02:17 < cjwatson> I've contacted the security team about that one
<tumbleweed> 02:18 < cjwatson> sigh, public bug report, I suppose it's too late
<l3on> mmm... so I did something wrong?
<l3on> security-issue ?!
<tumbleweed> there's a reason we made those fail builds, yes
<tumbleweed> many of them aren't dangerous, that one probably is
<jtaylor> I don't see an issue with a public bug though, its a thing gcc can detect since years, anyone who wants to use that knows about it anyway already
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: yeah, it was there for anyone who was looking for it
<tumbleweed> l3on: you did nothing wrong. You could have contacted the security team in private, if you'd realised the security risks with it, but maybe someone else would have come along and filed a bug...
<cjwatson> l3on: clearsilver> that was an exploitable security hole, yes
<cjwatson> l3on: I sent mail to security teams with (IIRC) the same patch, before you looked at it; haven't heard anything back though
<cjwatson> because I thought it might benefit from a coordinated release
<cjwatson> it's true that anyone looking for it could have found it
<jtaylor> might be worse increasing the severty of the bug then?
<cjwatson> jtaylor: "we should first wait for the toolchain to be fixed" - what fix would that be then?
<jtaylor> cjwatson: fixed in the sense that it does not change anymore
<jtaylor> I heard error=format-security may be disabled depending on the next rebuild
<cjwatson> I think you're out of date - I already disabled it in dpkg-buildpackage, but dpkg-buildflags still exports it
<cjwatson> in any case, that's no reason to delay a package upload
<cjwatson> I'll bump that Debian bug to grave now
<cjwatson> oh, huh, I didn't send a patch, silly me
<cjwatson> l3on: anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to snark really, you had no way of knowing I'd already looked at that
<Laney> how far back can we use .orig.tar.bz2?
<l3on> cjwatson, sorry, that was my fault ... I'm not so good understanding severity of bugs ... I need more practice :D
<tumbleweed> l3on: erm, nothing here is your fault at all :)
<l3on> :)
<cjwatson> Laney: anything that supports 3.0 (quilt), so dpkg (>= 1.14.17), i.e. >= intrepid
<Laney> cheers
<broder> tumbleweed: that's not a backport-helper thing; it's happening at a lower level (i think mass-sync? but i'm not sure). i don't know why it's done that way
<tumbleweed> ah, right
<broder> probably because there's a fair amount of shared code with syncs
<tumbleweed> of course, this is something else that LP will have to implement natively before our archive admins can lose shell access
<broder> actually, at the TB meeting, we talked about just using backportpackage and uploading directly
<broder> but that would block on backporters being able to process the queue
<tumbleweed> yeah
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: Can you test something for me: 'lp-shell staging' and then do 'lp.bugs[851798].subscriptions[1].canBeUnsubscribedByUser()' Does that result true or false?
<tumbleweed> True
<Ampelbein> ok, thanks.
<tumbleweed> err that's ubuntu-release
<tumbleweed> ah, I was'nt on staging
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: Huh?
<Ampelbein> ah
<tumbleweed> right, still True
<tumbleweed> I think the problem here was that PersonTeam is a wrapper around the launchpadlib object
<tumbleweed> so == was never true
<Ampelbein> Aye. The problem should be gone with the variable.
<Ampelbein> There was another problem, if the sponsors team wasn't sub[0], a "Couldn't unsubscribe" would have been issued anyways.
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: ok, pushed a fix. It works for me now.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-19
<shadeslayer> mm for some reason I can't install skype on quantal anymore
<shadeslayer>  skype : Depends: skype-bin but it is not installable < The package doesn't seem to have changed though ...
<shadeslayer> weird since it worked a couple of days ago
<shadeslayer> ohhh I think it plagues i386 only
<shadeslayer> s/i386/amd64
<ehoover> Hello, i'm interested in getting a package I've put together possibly included in the repositories.  Is there someone I can talk to that can help me through that process?
<persia> ehoover: Just ask questions here: this is the team that deals with all the packages in the archive that aren't specific for some team (which yours probably is, if you're interested in having it in the repos, rather than interested in having it in ${PRODUCT})
<persia> In general, the process involves having an existing developer review it and upload if it's clean, and a second developer performing a compliance review.  Sometimes we do two compliance reviews, when the folk responsible for compliance reviews feel overwhelmed by the volume.
<ehoover> persia: Well, I put together a package for setting up everything for Netflix (it's similar to ttf-mscorefonts-installer) and a package for loading a custom version of Wine that supports it.
<persia> A custom version of wine?  Other than that in the repos?
<ehoover> Yeah, it includes several patches that I have not managed to get accepted yet.
<persia> That's unlikely to be approved: better to see if support can be added to the wine in the repos.
<ehoover> (Working on it, last version had a bug with a return value - so it got rejected)
<persia> YokoZar: Maybe you're familiar, and could help with this?
<persia> ehoover: Understood.  We're likely to be happy to get stuff included, although we generally like to have it included in Debian as well, simply because that allows you to be the maintainer, whereas that can't happen in Ubuntu (there are no maintainers in Ubuntu).
<persia> On the other hand, we don't want to have two different versions of wine in the repos, as this doubles the work to maintain it.
<persia> So it probably makes sense to get the changes you need for wine applied first, and then push the netflix-installer package.
<ehoover> persia: ok, well i'll prioritize my efforts on getting the package accepted into Wine then.  Thanks for the information.
<ehoover> (err, patches - not package)
<persia> We have a fairly close relation with upstream wine, so I'm not confident about patches getting accepted here first.  That said, best of luck!
<chilicuil> ehoover: if you've made a package.., you may want to try the extra repository, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard , http://askubuntu.com/questions/56850/how-does-application-review-board-work as I see it, it may take a lot of time to have it included in the universe repository, also (probably you know it) you can setup a ppa for it https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<Tm_T> I thought there's already ppa for wine that has netflix-enabling patches
<ehoover> chilicuil: I've already got a PPA setup, I honestly didn't think you guys would want this in the repo yet but I've had quite a few people suggest it.
<ehoover> ( http://www.iheartubuntu.com/2012/11/ppa-for-netflix-desktop-app.html )
<chilicuil> ehoover: ok, then maybe you may be able to add it to the extra reps, on them, you and only you will be in charge to give support for the package, and it's intend to be used in 'light' apps, therefore I'm not sure if your project is eligible.., having a netsplit-enabled version of wine in Ubuntu as default will be cool
<ehoover> ok, i'll take a look at that information and see about the extra repo.  thanks for the details.
<YokoZar> persia: ehoover: ahh yeah I took a brief look at that.  I think there's a reasonable chance upstream wine will be able to support netflix this cycle and we can just ship wine1.5 packages to handle the use case
<YokoZar> persia: we have had 2 different wine versions in the past (wine1.2 and wine1.3), it wasn't that big a deal.
<ehoover> YokoZar: I sure hope so, it'd make everything a lot easier :)  I'm going to hit the sack though, you guys have a good one!
<ScottK> chilicuil: The package that ehoover has isn't suitable for extras.
<chilicuil> ScottK: ok, I suppose because of the wine thing, thanks for the clarification
<dholbach> good morning
<tumbleweed> dholbach: I only see two days of audio from uds-r on audio.ubuntu.com - http://audio.ubuntu.com/uds-r/b3-m1/
<tumbleweed> weren't there videos published somewhere?
<dholbach> there was some G+ account which was hooked up to the cameras
<dholbach> but I can't remember the name
<dholbach> do the people in #canonical-sysadmin know?
 * tumbleweed wanders off there
<cousteau> could nvidia-cuda-toolkit be backported to precise?
<cousteau> I see http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/precise/nvidia-cuda-toolkit exists but there are no packages built from it
<cousteau> oh...  "Depends: libcuda1 Package not available"
<warp10> dholbach: around? Have a couple minutes?
<dholbach> warp10, certo
<warp10> dholbach: mind joining #6had? :)
<dholbach> bdrung, Du bist und bleibst ein Pedant - hÃ¤ltst Du auch 'ne Session? :-)
 * dholbach hugs bdrung
<bdrung> dholbach: you can add me to the roundtable
<dholbach> perfect
<tumbleweed> heh https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct - "The current version is 2.0, released 2005-04-12"
<jtaylor> hm someone know how I dump a trivial patch to openstack upstream without having to read a gerrit manual ._.
<jtaylor> meh I'll just dump it in a bug report
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> can usip (http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/u/uisp/current/changelog) (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/uisp) be dropped?
<alo21> or it needs to be merged?
<jtaylor> alo21: if it builds it can be synced
<alo21> jtaylor: I asked it to know if the bug are the same
<alo21> is*
<alo21> anyway.. thanks
<jtaylor> probably
<alo21_> jtaylor: the building fails... here is the log (http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1370905/). I took a look at it, and seems that the package needs the previous patch. Is it right?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> does something speak against such a version number 1.8.9-1~exp1ubuntu1?
<jtaylor> e.g. tools not recognizing the ubuntu changes?
<ScottK> Seems reasonable, if somewhat ugly.
<alo21> jtaylor: I followed the instruction here (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging), I built the package, tested it and all work fine. Now do I upload the debdiff?
<jtaylor> alo21: you file a bug and attach it
<jtaylor> or propose a bzr branch for merging
<alo21> jtaylor: what do you suggest?
<TheLordOfTime> if you have a debdiff, attach to the bug
<TheLordOfTime> and subscribe sponsors, i think...
 * TheLordOfTime forgets :P
<alo21> jtaylor: is there a script t fill the merge bug (such as requestsync)?
<jtaylor> no
<alo21> jtaylor: ok. thanks
<Rcart> jtaylor: bzr lp-propose?
<jtaylor> Rcart: true, (I mentioned bzr merge proposal), but that won't work with debdiffs?
<Rcart> jtaylor: jtaylor just a branch, I guess... not sure about debdiffs
<alo21> jtaylor: is ok if I upload _program_name.diff.gz, or I have to upload only _program_name.debdiff?
<jtaylor> gz is fine
<jtaylor> though it should be so large that its needed
<jtaylor> debdiff to the latest debian version is enough
<alo21> jtaylor: could chek I filed it correctly, please? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1371109/
<jtaylor> the interesting part is the patch, the message is not so important in simple cases
<alo21> ok
<alo21> jtaylor: have I to subscribe someone else to the bug?
<jtaylor> alo21: yes ubuntu-sponsors
<TheLordOfTime> bleh was just about to type that >.>
<alo21> TheLordOfTime: thanks you too
<alo21> done
<Rcart> jtaylor: what's the current development phase that we're on right now?
<jtaylor> autosync phase
<jtaylor> so thursday is feature definition freeze, but that has little impact on motu
<dlynch> Where on IRC should I ask about how to debug a problem with a Gnome GIO file operation (called from python) that appears only with Ubuntu 12.10?
<jtaylor> dlynch: do you have a small testcase?
<dlynch> jtaylor, not yet - I've only just tracked it down to a specific line in my code (Rapid Photo Downloader, which is in Universe)
<Rcart> jtaylor: I have made a little ubuntu packaging in previous cycles and I would really like to learn merges, how can I start with? (besides the packaging guide)
<jtaylor> Rcart: hard to say, merges go from easy to very difficult
<jtaylor> you could go through mergomatic and look for things that look simple
<jtaylor> like some build failure fixes
<Rcart> ok, thanks (:
<dlynch> jtaylor, creating a test case is proving time quite consuming (the bug seems to be only appearing when using the python multi-processing module). Is there some kind of "turn on Gnome GIO debugging output" switch I can flick?
<jtaylor> there is G_DEBUG
<jtaylor> but I don't think it will help much
<jtaylor> are you sharing file descriptors or sockets over forks?
<dlynch> no, just file and directory names
<dlynch> and the code works without issues in Ubuntu 10.04 - 12.04
<dlynch> I'm using pygtk - perhaps it's effectively becoming unmaintained
<jtaylor> what exactly happens?
<dlynch> I'm calling gio File.Move, and it takes a very long time to complete - something like 1 minute or so
<dlynch> because it's  a simple file rename, it should be instantaneous
<jtaylor> did you break in with a debugger?
<dlynch> I've never tried using a debugger in a python program, to be honest. And I've no idea how to do that when using multiple processes
<jtaylor> I mean with gdb, it would be interesting to know were it is hanging
<jtaylor> in C code or python code
<dlynch> gdb can start  python code and trace it's execution?
<dlynch> its*
<jtaylor> gdb can trace python
<jtaylor> gdb --args /usr/bin/python-dbg yourapp.py
<jtaylor> then press ^C when it hangs
<jtaylor> the backtrace could give some clues
<jtaylor> you need debug symbols installed
<jtaylor> libglib2.0-0-dbg
<dlynch> running python-dbg results in an error: ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/_dbus_bindings.so: undefined symbol: Py_InitModule4_64
<jtaylor> you need debug symbols of everything
<dlynch> aha
<jtaylor> python-dbus-dbg
<LisaNori> Is there a LEAP supplicant for LInux?  I'm thinking about moving my Nexus 7 to Linux, but I need LEAP to use the Wifi at work.
<bobweaver> Hello all I am trying to package up a old Unity 2d that I hacked up.  But it seems that it is not uploading to my ppa :(.  ppa upload file says all is good I will push branch to show
<dlynch> jtaylor, dbg package for this? ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_gtk.so: undefined symbol: Py_InitModule4_64
<jtaylor> dlynch: python-gtk2-dbg
<dlynch> I can't seem to locate python-notify-dbg
<jtaylor> hm not good
<jtaylor> try normal python not python-dbg
<jtaylor> maybe it picks up the available debug anyway
<bobweaver> LisaNori,  there is a nexus 7 channel somewhere for testing
<dlynch> jtaylor, sorry to be such an ignoramus, but after calling  gdb --args /usr/bin/python rapid/rapid.py     , what command do I give?
<jtaylor> run
<jtaylor> after the ^C do backtrace
<bobweaver> LisaNori,  opps I mixed up nexus and steam blog that I read says in wiki to hit people up on #ubuntu-arm
<dlynch> jtaylor, indeed there is some interesting info there. What do I do with it? :)
<jtaylor> put it in a pastebin
<dlynch> jtaylor, http://pastebin.com/pfEczNZN
<bobweaver> Branch that Has Unity 2d version (Ubuntu tv mockup code) https://code.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/ubuntutv/mockup-ppa-branch
<bobweaver> Is it because Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers  and I am not a person that has a Ubuntu address  in my gpg ?
<bobweaver> d/control ^^ that is all I can think of .
<jtaylor> dlynch: hm not so useful you are probably in the wrong process
<jtaylor> it gets complicated if you don't know gdb
<dlynch> I can try to halt it while in the correct process
<dlynch> would that help?
<jtaylor> the code looks kind of dangerous
<jtaylor> mixing event loops with multiprocessing
<jtaylor> I'm not sure that goes well
<dlynch> there is the gtk main loop, and all the other processes starting within that
<dlynch> I don't know if that is "good" or "bad"
<jtaylor> you could try setting some pipe to cloexec mode and see if that fixes it
<dlynch> but it works much better than with python threading! :)
<dlynch> do you have any idea why it would suddenly stop working in 12.10 having worked ok for 2 years before that?
<jtaylor> it might be interesting to know if it works with python2.7.2 and rest quantal
<jtaylor> how does one reproduce it?
<dlynch> what do you mean by "rest quantal"?
<dlynch> unfortunately reproducing it is very easy - simply attempt to run the program normally, i.e. "download" some test photos/videos from a local directory to another local directory
<jtaylor> just change python to 2.7.2
<dlynch> I install python 2.7.2 from where?
<jtaylor> btw the package is lacking a dependency on python-dbus
 * jtaylor filing bug
<dlynch> you're right, thanks
<jtaylor> debian bug 693753
<ubottu> Debian bug 693753 in rapid-photo-downloader "rapid-photo-downloader: missing dependency on python-dbus" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/693753
<jtaylor> how do I get the download button to be clickable
<dlynch> select a source
<dlynch> select a download source, and a destination
<dlynch> use the toolbar at the top
<jtaylor> this assert screwed up the gui:http://paste.ubuntu.com/1371421/
<jtaylor> restart helped
<jtaylor> oh precise has python2.7.3 too so that can't be it
<dlynch> turn off auto detect using the toolbar
<dlynch> it's getting stuck on line 402 in subfolder.py - that's the code that takes something like 1 minute to complete
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-20
<jtaylor> hm very hard to debug stuff
<jtaylor> I'm out of time for today
<dlynch> thanks jtaylor
<jtaylor> does it work in debian?
<dlynch> jtaylor, no idea. I could ask Julien Valroff
<dlynch> shall I CC you in the email?
<jtaylor> yes please
<jtaylor> I may have another look on wednesday, bye
<dlynch> thanks, bye
<jtaylor> dlynch: one last thing, http://developer.gnome.org/glib/2.31/glib-The-Main-Event-Loop.html
<jtaylor> "On Unix, the GLib mainloop is incompatible with fork()"
<jtaylor> that might be the problem with multiprocess
<jtaylor> I think that forks
<dlynch> yes I think it does
<jtaylor> bye really now :)
<dlynch> bye!
<duanedesign> I need a little help building a package. I know this activity was moved to another channel could someone please advise?
<ScottK> duanedesign: If the package is intended for inclusion in Ubuntu, here is fine.  Otherwise, #ubuntu-packaging.
<duanedesign> i created the pbuilder enviroment - sudo pbuilder create
<duanedesign> aha think i found a step i missed 'To use dget, first locate the .dsc file of the package you are going to build'
<duanedesign> ScottK: I can not find=  "To use dget, first locate the .dsc file of the package you are going to build."
<duanedesign> i can find it in previous builds clicompanion_1.1-6~bzr109+p21~precise1.dsc
<ScottK> dget is to download it from somewhere.  If you have it already, skip that step.
<duanedesign> ok thanks
<duanedesign> let me look
<duanedesign> bh
<duanedesign> ScottK: i final question if you are still lurking
<duanedesign> Signing Source Files =  Assuming your packages and source files were placed in /var/cache/pbuilder/result/, run
<duanedesign> mine are spread all over /var/cache/pbuilder
<duanedesign> which should i move to /var/cache/pbuilder/result ?
<duanedesign> ScottK: think i got it. Sorry for the premature pings
<duanedesign> thanks for the help and moral help :)
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> Guten Morgen dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<iulian> Morning Mr. Holbach.
<dholbach> Good morning Mr. Udrea
<iulian> :)
<smartboyhw> dholbach, thanks for approving:D
<dholbach> :)
<Quintasan> dholbach: The debian/copyright example, would you like it simple one or more complicated one (like three licenses in one source package)?
<dholbach> Quintasan, as you like it
<Quintasan> dholbach: Well, I might as well as give two examples
<Quintasan> Nothing beats that
<dholbach> sounds like the perfect plan :)
<Quintasan> dholbach: The perfect plan is to play Team Fortress on my Steam install and have work do itself but life doesn't work that way T_T
<dholbach> haha, so everybody has their own problems :)
<Quintasan> dholbach: By the way, you eat pierogi and kaszanka, right? You might want to try Å¼urek at some point :P
<Quintasan> A good soup I say!
<dholbach> Quintasan, I'm a vegetarian hippie - so it might be a bit more complicated ;-)
<Quintasan> oh
<bobweaver> dholbach,  I think that you should visit Arcata CA,Ithaca NY , Burlington VT ,Bolder CO  great veggie food , full of hippies
<dholbach> bobweaver, I'll note them down :)
<dholbach> I'm sure they're all on http://www.happycow.net/ as well :)
<bobweaver> what ever happened to the tofu tollboth book ?
<bobweaver> http://www.amazon.com/The-Tofu-Tollbooth-Natural-Stores/dp/188610106X
<bobweaver> I use to use that all the time when I worked on the road
<c_korn> hello, can I use the chrpath package on amd64 to remove the chrpath from an i386 executable? currently it fails with this message: `debian/snowstorm/usr/share/games/snowstorm/bin/SLVoice' probably isn't a 64-bit LSB-first ELF file.
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> I am trying to merge two package.
<alo21> I made two debdiff, the first debian with edit_ubuntu, the second old_ubuntu with edit_ubuntu
<alo21> now I should get rid all the changes which I didn't...
<alo21> I edited just a single line in debian/rules, but in the new debian package there is also a new patch; have I to delete it too in the debdiff?
<alo21> for a better comprehension, you can take a look here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1372958/
<Laney> you should only delete it if we don't want it in Ubuntu
<Laney> alo21: it looks like you removed -Wno-narrowing ...
<alo21> Laney: right
<alo21> Laney: could you write the 'final' debdiff please? In this way I understand what I should remove. Thanks
<Laney> why don't we use -Wno-error=unused-result?
<Laney> alo21: you want me to do the merge for you?!
<Laney> it looks fine except that you deleted one of the Ubuntu changes
<alo21> Laney: no. I would understand what I should remove. As I told in the new debian version there is another patch which wasn't in the las ubuntu version. Have I to delete it in the dbdiff, or not?
<Laney> no. we usually take the changes Debian makes unless we explicitly don't want them for some reason
<Laney> in this case they are patches that were forwarded from Ubuntu - so we almost certainly /do/ want them!
<Laney> (taking changes from Debian is the whole point of merging)
<alo21> Laney: fine.. so I suppose that the debdiff is ok.
<alo21> if not, why?
<alo21> Laney: could you explane me how merge works, please? Do motus import debian package first and then apply the debdiff?
<ScottK> alo21: If you're just starting, merging may not be the best first task.
<ScottK> It requires understanding both why Ubuntu has a diff and why Debian has made a change to figure out what to do.
<obounaim> Why this bug #837317 is only affecting Ubuntu and not Debian?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837317 in gfarm2fs (Ubuntu Oneiric) "gfarm2fs ftbfs in oneiric on all archs except i386" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837317
<TheLordOfTime> when packages sync to raring, do packages in Universe ever get pulled/updated from Debian Experimental?
<TheLordOfTime> or does that only happen when a sync is requested?
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: needs to be explicitly requested
<TheLordOfTime> i assume checking for FTBFS issues ahead of time would be good prior to requesting a sync of a specific package from Experimental to raring?
<TheLordOfTime> (still universe)
<micahg> yeah
<TheLordOfTime> sync request stuff listed anywhere?  (scripts in Ubuntu aren't accessible for me given a partition implosion)
<chilicuil> and talking about syncronization, I've heard that every new release ubuntu sync with debian as TheLordOfTime has just said, is there any risk that changes done in raring may be overwritten for the sync process?, is dangerous to work in universe packages in raring right now?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-21
<ScottK> chilicui1: Packages with Ubuntu unique changes in them are not automatically sync'ed.  Those need human intervention.
<chilicui1> ScottK: mm, and that's called 'merge' isn't?.., so, It seems like there is no danger if I work in a package that has other ubuntu changes...
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Also Debian is in pre-release freeze right now, so the rate of general upload there is relatively low.
<ScottK> I wouldn't worry about it too much either way.
<chilicui1> wow, thanks for the information ScottK
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK, since you're active, can you point me to sample bugs or documentation for filing a sync request bug?
<TheLordOfTime> can't use Ubuntu to file it with the scripts, since my partition went and died.
<ScottK> I'd search LP for one then and model it's format.
<TheLordOfTime> could probably go clone the format of the older ZNC sync request bugs, since its the same package.
<TheLordOfTime> i know i filed a few of those over time...
 * TheLordOfTime diffs the control files for current and the one he wants synced.
<TheLordOfTime> i don't want any build-dep changes :P
<TheLordOfTime> those were pre-oneiric i think, though.
<TheLordOfTime> not sure if the format for the bugs've changed...
<TheLordOfTime> ... oops, i broke my server again
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK, who should I subscribe for a sync-request bug for something in Universe, MOTUs or sponsors or someone else?
<TheLordOfTime> again i'm not working with the autofiler script :P
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: ubuntu-sponsors
<TheLordOfTime> mmkay, i'm going to load a VM first and test the package, it should work as-is without any changes, but i cant build-test on Windows :P  (I can test the binaries on one of my servers though)
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK, i'm build-testing in my PPA.  Do you recommend subscribing sponsors before or after i build-test, and should the sync request bug be "Wishlist" importance (if so, i can set that if there's no objection, due ot bugcontrol)
 * TheLordOfTime doesnt do anything when the package being synced FTBFS.
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: subscribe sponsors when you are ready for a sponsor to take action (so after).  Yes, wishlist.
<ScottK> How about fix the FTBFS?
<TheLordOfTime> assuming it FTBFS
<TheLordOfTime> it shouldnt after digging around in the sources
<TheLordOfTime> but, i don't trust pbuilder locally, its been wonky :P
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK, all done, thanks.  :)  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/znc/+bug/1081399
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1081399 in znc (Ubuntu) "Please sync znc 1.0-1 (universe) from debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> slow reverse-depends is slow
<Laney> can we haz codesearch.ubuntuwire.org please?
<Zhenech> do not stealz precious servicez from derbian
<Laney> but it's so sweet
<geser> Laney: can you check if the python-keyring SRU fixed the password issue when using syncpackage and similar tools?
<Zhenech> btw, laney, could you sru monkeystudio while I am at work? the exact diff between quantal and raring minus version should be fine (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/monkeystudio/+bug/1074845)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1074845 in monkeystudio (Ubuntu Quantal) "monkeystudio crashes while displaying menu tooltips" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<geser> I suspect is might be https://bitbucket.org/kang/python-keyring-lib/issue/71/cryptedfilekeyring_unlock-does-not-return which mdeslaur fixed too in his python-keyring uploads :)
<Laney> Zhenech: not right now, maybe later. geser ^?
<Laney> i'll test the SRU in exchange for you doing that
<Laney> geser: seems to work
<Laney> didrocks: ^^^ that's the bug you pinged me about the other day
<Laney> seems fixed in SRU
<didrocks> Laney: oh excellent, please keep me posted
<didrocks> Laney: so, we found a workaround this morning
<didrocks> which is exporting a keyfile for setting unencrypted key
<didrocks> but if there is a better solutionâ¦ :)
<Laney> didrocks: yes, upgrade to the packages in -updates
<geser> Laney: thanks for testing. I'm at work right now myself and couldn't test it (don't have chroot here to easily reproduce/test it)
<Laney> happy to
<Laney> I'm just happy not to have to type my keyring password three times in a row now
<Laney> I got quite used to it
<geser> at least your password is now in your muscle memory :)
<bdrung> dholbach: what does the lintian-ubuntu-only script do?
<dholbach> bdrung, you give it a lintian tag and it will parse the ubuntuwire-lintian log to find which ubuntu-only packages are affected and which issues would be better targetted in Debian
<bdrung> dholbach: nice.
<dholbach> It helped a lot with the bugfixinginitiative page :)
<bdrung> that's what i thought
<bdrung> it would be nice to have a tool that you give a source package name and it spits out the ubuntu-only lintian tags (-> you introduces these lintian tags)
<dholbach> that might be an idea as well
<dholbach> so I just checked, we can directly link to Harvest opportunity lists (ie: http://harvest.ubuntu.com/opportunities/?opp.list=bitesize&pkg= gives you all bitesize bugs)
<dholbach> if we could agree on a list of "trivial", "easy", "medium", ... lintian tags (which would be useful to get fixed), we could have Harvest aggregate them for us and we wouldn't have to list them on the wiki any more
<dholbach> I think I'll start a discussion on the mailing list about it
<mspencer> Hi, I'm new to developing for Ubuntu and am interested in working on the Contributor Console (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributorConsole). Is this something a beginner could do? So far I've worked on bug fixes.
<alo21> hi
<jtaylor> do you use debuild -v against what is in proposed or what is in release?
<micahg> I would think proposed
<micahg> (so that bugs are closed properly)
<jtaylor> makes sense, thx
<dlynch> jtaylor, I installed Debian testing today in VirtualBox and Rapid Photo Downloader runs fine on it
<bkerensa> I'm merging a package but it says certain files still have conflicts even though I have resolved them... How can I remove this flag?
<jtaylor> bzr resolved file
<RAOF> bkerensa: You've run âbzr resolveâ?
<jtaylor> I think
<bkerensa> jtaylor: ahh :) I kept trying "bzr resolved"
<bkerensa> RAOF: thx
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-22
<epikvision> Hello all! For the prospective developer, what is a better option: to adopt an orphaned package or try out packaging from scratch?
<epikvision> the first timer
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
 * dholbach just finished another hangout on air :)
<iulian> Oh, I just missed it then. Hmm.
<smartboyhw> dholbach, you guys really like hangouts do you?
<dholbach> yes :)
<dholbach> iulian, I'll invite you in the next time :)
 * dholbach was a bit lonely today :)
<iulian> Otherwise they wouldn't do it.
<iulian> dholbach: I would love to join you but I've got a thesis to write and my supervisor is giving me loads of work to do. :-(
<dholbach> iulian, don't worry - there's always a next time :)
<iulian> dholbach: Indeed. I just want to finish this and perhaps I could join you at the next UDS as well if time permits.
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> I wold like to merge thi streesapptest (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/stressapptest), but I'm not sure if I can
<alo21> Can I? I mean I can't find any bugs for this package. Seems so strange
<alo21> warp10: can I talk to you for a while?
<bdrung> hi, is someone here, who can calm down a heated conversation in an LP bug?
<ScottK> bdrung: Maybe.  What bug?
<bdrung> ScottK: bug #696841. please note that RÃ©mi is an upstream developer triaging a lot of vlc bugs.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 696841 in vlc (Ubuntu) "vlc stops playing audio after pause/resume or seek" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/696841
<ScottK> bdrung: I wrote a technical question in the bug.  Maybe that will draw them back.
<JanC> ScottK: or maybe when using VLC without the pulse plugin installed, it gets auto-configured to ALSA, and installing the pulse plugin later doesn't help...?
<JanC> (seems to me like BB and some others installed it only after being asked to)
<ScottK> Yeah.  Not clear to me.
<bdrung> ScottK: thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-23
<ESphynx> xnox: ping =)
<xnox> ESphynx: hola =)
<xnox> wait........
<ESphynx> Â¿Que tal?
<xnox> is this about building a very huge package?
<ESphynx> very huge package?
<ESphynx> who said anything about a huge package :P
<ESphynx> a tiny one perhaps... minuscule :)
<ESphynx> 'sup homies
<ESphynx> oops wrong chan
<ESphynx> :P
<ESphynx> don't drink and IRC.
<dholbach> good morning
<obounaim> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi obounaim
<Rcart> good morning daniel o/
<dholbach> hi Rcart
<Rcart> dholbach: I'm working on a package and want to import a patch, I do in the bzr branch: $ quilt import patch, then push and finally refresh
<Rcart> but quilt refresh the last applied patch
<Rcart> if I do bzr diff and cannot see the changes "made" by the imported patch
<Rcart> seems like if not applied at all :\
<dholbach> the manpage says:
<dholbach>       import [-p num] [-R] [-P patch] [-f] [-d {o|a|n}] patchfile ...
<dholbach>            Import  external  patches.   The patches will be inserted following
<dholbach>            the current top patch, and must be pushed  after  import  to  apply
<dholbach>            them.
<dholbach> maybe you forgot to push?
<Rcart> yes, I did push and then refresh
<obounaim> Maybe be the patch file should be in the debian/patches directory
<dholbach> aha!
<dholbach> try: bzr unknowns
<dholbach> it could be that you still need to 'bzr add <patch file>'
<dholbach> brb
<Rcart> dholbach: ok, thanks
<Rcart> obounaim: the patch is not there even after import -> push -> refresh
<obounaim> maybe you need to copy the patch manually and then import it
<Rcart> ok, let me try it
<obounaim> try "quilt series" to see if the patch has been correctly added to the series file.
<Rcart> yes, I did it and shows the imported patch
<Rcart> but..
<Rcart> if after I do after importing $ quilt push
<Rcart> quilt says: "all series fully-applied"
<Rcart> but the patch is not applied
<Rcart> I'll import it manually, give me a sec
<obounaim> Try with a new branch, copy your patch to debian/patches directory import it, then do a push
<Rcart> obounaim: think that my patch is named 'mypatch'
<Rcart> I manually copied my patch to d/patches, then importing, and when I do $quilt series, it shows my patch
<Rcart> but when I do $ quilt push
<obounaim> good, now push it "quilt push"
<Rcart> File series fully applied, ends at patch fix-627426.patch
<Rcart> and that isn't 'mypatch.patch'
<Rcart> debian new maintainer guide says:
<obounaim> How did you create your patch?
<Rcart> d
<Rcart> d
<Rcart> The patches stored in the newer 3.0 (quilt) source format must be fuzz free. You can ensure this with
<obounaim> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/patches-to-packages.html#adding-a-new-patch
<Rcart> obounaim: but that is for new patches AFAIK
<obounaim> yes, this not what you are trying to do?
<Rcart> yeah, but this is a imported patch
<obounaim> did you create the patch?
<Rcart> I wanna apply an existing patch from debian
<obounaim> what package are you trying to fix?
<Rcart> xpdf
<obounaim> What patch are trying to import?
<Rcart> http://bugs.debian.org/658264#49
<ubottu> Debian bug 658264 in xpdf "possible memory corruption in GlobalParams" [Important,Open]
<Rcart> that bug is present since 11.10
<Rcart> and I'm really interested in try to fix it
<Rcart> I think I'll do it without quilt import
<highvoltage> good morning
<coolbhavi> good morning highvoltage
<jtaylor> anyone else getting nullpointer exceptions with ec2-describe-instances?
<jtaylor> on 12.04
<Rcart> obounaim: I had to configure .quilrc to work properly for debian patches ^^
<Rcart> obounaim: now $ quilt import patch.pathc -> push -> refresh works like a charm (:
<Rcart> sorry, ~/.quiltrc *
<obounaim> Rcart, happy to hear that.
<aboudreault> why would quilt push -a, works....... but not debuild -S -sd
<aboudreault> getting an error on applying a patch.
<jtaylor> micahg: anything more you want tested for bug 1074765
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1074765 in Quantal Backports "Please backport ipython 0.13.1-1 (universe) from raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074765
<jtaylor> I think I have all depends
<micahg> jtaylor: I'll have to look later (over weekend)
<bkerensa> any help making this build error go away? :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/1380618/
<jtaylor> bkerensa: have you refreshed?
<bkerensa> jtaylor: yes
<jtaylor> try pop -a and delete the .pc folder
<bkerensa> jtaylor: No command 'pop' found, but there are 17 similar ones
<jtaylor> quilt pop -a
<bkerensa> ah
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> jtaylor: yeah it stills give me an error on that patch
<jtaylor> bkerensa: is unpatched Makefile.am already modified compared to the orig tar?
<bkerensa> jtaylor: no they are the same size just different timestamps
<jtaylor> bkerensa: same size does not mean same
<bkerensa> jtaylor: they are identical in content
<achiang> bkerensa: maybe better to start from first principles... do you know what "patch fuzz" is?
<bkerensa> achiang: no
<bkerensa> achiang: if you could point me to a manual I will gladly rtfm though.
<achiang> bkerensa: trying to find a definitive source for you
<achiang> bkerensa: but in essence, it's when you have a patch and the target file doesn't *exactly* match up. say line numbers changed or something
<achiang> the patch still makes sense, but now you have fuzz
<achiang> bkerensa: i suggest you just go google for that a bit, and try to read about fuzz
<achiang> then the idea of timestamps changing on you and why refreshing a patch would make more sense
<jtaylor> bkerensa: does patch -p1 <patchfile give any messages beside "patching ..."
<achiang> bkerensa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_(Unix) - you could try that, but i suggest reading a bit more too (although it's not a super complicated concept :)
<bkerensa> jtaylor: it just stalls
<bkerensa> jtaylor: no error or output
<jtaylor> bkerensa: what exactly did you type into the terminal?
<jtaylor> patchfile should be replaced with your patch
<bkerensa> jtaylor: patch -p1 9000-howtos.patch
<jtaylor> bkerensa: patch -p1 <9000-howtos.patch
<bkerensa> jtaylor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1380671/
<bkerensa> jtaylor: so looking at the output it appears its because a file no longer exists since the merge?
<jtaylor> bkerensa: the patch should  not have succeeded at all when executed from debian/patches
<jtaylor> do you have something besides patches in there?
 * bkerensa looks
<bkerensa> jtaylor: it appears there is a path /howtos
<bkerensa> jtaylor: and a file called series
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-24
<quidnunc> How do I add an affected package to a bug?
<quidnunc> (i.e. more than 1 affected package)
<xnox> click on the "affects distribution" choose a distro & package name
<quidnunc> xnox: thanks
<obounaim> dpkg-source: info: local changes detected, the modified files are:
<obounaim>  bwm-ng-0.6/src/input/proc_diskstats.c
<obounaim>  bwm-ng-0.6/src/output.c
<obounaim> dpkg-source: error: aborting due to unexpected upstream changes, see /tmp/bwm-ng_0.6-3.1ubuntu1.diff.D1RFXx
<obounaim> dpkg-source: info: you can integrate the local changes with dpkg-source --commit
<obounaim> How to fix this?
<obounaim> Hello
<ScottK> Did you change those files?
<obounaim> No.
<ScottK> What I would do then is  dpkg-source --commit and see what changes are captured in the resulting patch.  Then try and figure out why.
<obounaim> Those changes were made as delta by an Ubuntu developer but without using a patch
<obounaim> bwm-ng (0.6-3ubuntu1) jaunty; urgency=low
<obounaim>   * Fix causes of "warning: format not a string literal and no format
<obounaim>     arguments" in src/output.c which were causing a strange message of
<obounaim>     'cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-Wno-long-double"'
<obounaim>   * Check return value of fgets in src/input/proc_diskstats.c which
<obounaim>     led to the same error as above.
<coolbhavi> hello obounaim
<obounaim> Hi coolbhavi,
<jtaylor> what does this mean when I want to push with bzr? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1383508/
<jtaylor> I want to push to lp:ubuntu-dev-tools
<ScottK> It means you've got a non-authenticated branch and you're trying to push without authorization (I think - the http is a clue - it should be sftp, IIRC)
<jtaylor> ScottK: so how do I fix it?
<ScottK> You have to repull the branch.
<ScottK> If you've set up bzr to know your LP username, bzr branch lp:ubuntu-dev-tools should DTRT.
<jtaylor> k, I pulled before setting the lp name
<ScottK> That'll do it.
<jtaylor> thx worked
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<alo21> TheMuso: hi
<alo21> hi aal
<alo21> all*
<alo21> TheDrums: can I ask you a thing?
<alo21> TheMuso: can I ask you a thing?
<alo21> TheDrums: sorry, wrong nick
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-25
<alo21> cyphermox, hi, xcan I ask a thing?
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> when I run 'grab-merge blueman', the script downloads the wrond debian traball
<alo21> have to download all manually?
<alo21> #ubuntu-web
<alo21> I have to report a bug related to https://merges.ubuntu.com/
<alo21> where should I write?
<Rhonda> May I upload for bug 1074845 already, or shall I wait for some ACK from the sru team?4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1074845 in monkeystudio (Ubuntu Quantal) "monkeystudio crashes while displaying menu tooltips" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074845
<jtaylor> Rhonda: just upload, sru will acc (or nack) the upload in the queue
<Rhonda> Ah, great.
<jtaylor> Rhonda: it needs to be fixed in raring first
<jtaylor> it probably is according to the changelog, but you should mark the bug fix released so sru knows
<alo21> can someone help me, please?
<alo21> grab-manager donwloads the wrong tarball
<alo21> because there are the wrong file here https://merges.ubuntu.com/b/blueman/
<alo21> what should I do?
<Rhonda> jtaylor: According to Zhenech it is already fixed in raring?
<jtaylor> Rhonda: the changelog implies it, but the bug not
<jtaylor> alo21: what doe grab-merges load?
<Rhonda> Thanks for the hint, set to "Fix released"
<alo21> jtaylor: all the package which are there
<alo21> packages*
<jtaylor> all?
<alo21> jtaylor: not just the first three. In fact they should be at version 1.23-1 (http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/b/blueman/current/changelog), and not 1.22~bzr707-1
<jtaylor> alo21: that may be the merge base
<jtaylor> alo21: yes its working correctly
<jtaylor> alo21: for a merge you need three things, the base and the two branches
<alo21> jtaylor: oh.. I've never noticed it, even if I have done a merge yet. I thought that there was a mistake just because someone wrote a comment in mom
<alo21> jtaylor: thank you very much for you time, and I'm really sorry
<alo21> jtaylor: can I ask you a thing?
<alo21> arand: can I ask you a thing?
<jtaylor> alo21: yes?
<alo21> jtaylor: I have a patch which was applied in the old ubuntu package
<alo21> now I would like to merge the package with the new one (from debian)
<alo21> the bedian version has a loto fo change and the ptch cannot be applied correctly, because the line number are different
<alo21> jtaylor: have to edit the patch to be applied correctly on the new version?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> using bzr or some version control usually helps
<jtaylor> vcs have lots of tools to do merging
<alo21> jtaylor: I don't understand why the merge does not reuards all the files
<jtaylor> ?
<alo21> jtaylor: there are a lot of fils where are shown the difference between debian and ubuntu (e.g. "<<<<<<< blueman-1.23-0ubuntu3 (ubuntu)" ... ">>>>>>> blueman-1.23-1 (debian)")
<alo21> files*
<jtaylor> that is is not unlikely in these cases
<jtaylor> the debian and ubuntu packages can be completely different
<jtaylor> its not a good situation and should be resolved
<jtaylor> preferably by being mire similar to debian
<jtaylor> but that depends on who did the ubuntu changes
<alo21> jtaylor: when I try to build the package, I got this error "dpkg-source: info: you can integrate the local changes with dpkg-source --commit dpkg-source: error: aborting due to unexpected upstream changes, see /tmp/blueman_1.23-1ubuntu1.diff.O67jQ"
<alo21> and this is the file http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1385498/
<jtaylor> if that is the merge diff that does not look like a good package to learn merging with
<jtaylor> the dpkg-source error basically means you have changed something directly without a patch
<jtaylor> put the change in a patch to fix it
<jtaylor> if its a valid change
<alo21> I have changed just the changelog, and there are two old patches
<mitya57> looks like the version number in d/changelog doesn't match the tarball version...
<mitya57> and also you haven't resolved all conflicts
<mitya57> +<<<<<<< blueman-1.23-0ubuntu3 (ubuntu)
<alo21> mitya57: in which file?
<mitya57> configure
<mitya57> lines 41â50 of the diff
<jtaylor> alo21: if you really want to do it it might be better to take the debian package and patch in from ubuntu what is worth keeping
 * jtaylor didn'T actually look at the package yet
<mitya57> I personally use this workflow:
<mitya57>   bzr branch debianlp:packagename
<mitya57>   cd packagename
<mitya57>   bzr merge ubuntu:packagename
<mitya57> and then resolving the conflicts (if any)
<alo21> mitya57: does this another way to make a merge (without grab-merge)?
<jtaylor> yes, it has the advantage that you have the vcs merging tools available
<mitya57> alo21: yes, I think it's called "udd-merging"
<mitya57> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-merging.html (though that page will be deleted tomorrow)
<mitya57> sorry, not that one, that will be kept :)
<alo21> mitya57: I've done what you told me, and there are 53 conflicts
<mitya57> let me look
<jtaylor> as mentioned this might really be a too hard package
<jtaylor> and the simple cherry picking approach may be more feasable
<jtaylor> afk a while
<alo21> mitya57: should I resolve that conflicts by my hand?
<mitya57> alo21: looks like orig tarballs are different :(
<mitya57> 1b54374c694e800d6280c9aabce12c9a vs f0bee59589f4c23e35bf08c2ef8acaef
<mitya57> ubuntu's looks better
<mitya57> I would suggest you to manually pick changes from debian
<alo21> mitya57: what do you mean manyally?
<alo21> manually*
<mitya57> ah, that has already been done: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blueman/1.23-0ubuntu2
<mitya57> think that that package is up-to-date with debian :)
<mitya57> the only thing that ubuntu packaging is missing is:
<mitya57> * Added dependency for gnome-icon-theme (Closes: #631838)
<mitya57> debian bug 631838
<ubottu> Debian bug 631838 in blueman "Missing icon/image renders software unusable" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/631838
<alo21> mitya57: mm... but manually, you mean find all the conflicts and edit them with gedit. Right?
<mitya57> alo21: no I don't mean that
<mitya57> the package is already in good shape, you shouldn't do any merges
<mitya57> but you may want to add gnome-icon-theme to Depends: field in d/control
<alo21> mitya57: if just 2 bugs were fixed, why there are different orig?
<mitya57> alo21: I don't know that, either upstream changed their tarball or debian used the wrong one
<mitya57> I have to leave now, sorry...
<TheMuso> alo21: Just ask your question, you need not ask me whether you can ask.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-18
<mfisch> TheMuso`: ping
<mfisch> I have an odd situation with speakup
<mfisch> We can sync with debian since the binaries are now in the kernel according to TheMuso`
<mfisch> the only binary built anymore is speakup-doc
<mfisch> so if I sync to debian, then we will have a newer speakup-doc, but still the old binary speakup package I assume?
<dholbach> good morning
<Noskcaj> evening dholbach. Would you mind giving me a testimonial for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj/MOTU ?
<Noskcaj> I won't actually have the meeting till january when i have school holidays
<Noskcaj> And it probably has to be be email because of my timezone
<dholbach> Noskcaj, sure
<dholbach> Noskcaj, I'd recommend you use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/DeveloperApplicationTemplate as a template for the application
<Noskcaj> thanks
<Noskcaj> will do
<dholbach> :)
<Noskcaj> should i still have a separate page for the MOTU application or just use my main one?
<dholbach> one should be enough
<Noskcaj> dholbach, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj should be close enough
<dholbach> cool
 * Noskcaj wishes alioth was less broken so he could get a list of people who have sponsored stuff for him
 * Zhenech hands Noskcaj "who-uploads"
<Noskcaj> um?
<Noskcaj> i.e. the sponsorship miner
<Zhenech> it should give you who uplaoded which package, so your sponsors
<Ampelbein> Where would I investigate why dbus-sharp 0.8.0-1, uploaded to debian 32 days ago, didn't make it automatically into trusty yet?
<Ampelbein> The Ubuntu package does not have local changes as far as I can tell (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus-sharp)
<Noskcaj> Ampelbein, I don't know the exact reason, but it's probably because dbus-sharp is FTBFS everywhere
<Ampelbein> The source package isn't even in Ubuntu?
<Ampelbein> And I don't see it FTBFS in Debian either.
<geser> I see no reason why it shouldn't got auto-synced
<Ampelbein> So, if I manually used syncpackage it wouldn't cause the world to collapse into a super black hole?
<geser> no :)
<geser> using syncpackage would be what I would try if was on my Ubuntu system right now
<Noskcaj> Ampelbein, It looks like it was never built on debian. I think it has to before we sync it
<Ampelbein> Wouldn't that mean that we would never get pure arch:all packages since they technically are never built on Debian's build servers?
<Ampelbein> If I understand Debian correctly, arch:all packages are build and uploaded by the developers instead of being built.
<geser> Noskcaj: the arch:all deb was uploaded with the source (as is required by Debian) so there is no build log for it available in Debian
<geser> It would be news to me if the autosync would care about FTBFS in Debian
<Ampelbein> Anyway, syncpackage did succeed and the package is now in trusty.
<Noskcaj> ok. Ignore everything i said
<Ampelbein> Thanks to both of you, Noskcaj and geser for checking if I missed something obvious.
<Ampelbein> Great. I upload a fix for a package that failed on amd64. Build succeeds locally in sbuild. On the auto-builders? All arches fail.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-19
<Noskcaj> Ampelbein, Do you ever plan to upload the latest version of flatnuke? If not, i could try
<Rhonda> Laney (or else), could you be convinced to do a wheezy-backport of ubuntu-dev-tools?
<Laney> Rhonda: maybe bdrung or tumbleweed
<Rhonda> The backport of devscripts breaks ubuntu-dev-scripts < 147~
<Laney> tsk
<Rhonda> Hmm, no mention for why in the manpage
<Rhonda> Erm, changelog
<Laney>  * Move add-patch, edit-patch, suspicious-source, what-patch, and wrap-and-sort from ubuntu-dev-tools into devscripts (Closes: #568481).
<Laney> ?
<Rhonda> That's too old
<Rhonda> That was 2.11.0, and wheezy has 2.12.6
<Laney> mmm
<Rhonda> So that can't be the reason for the breaks < 147~
<bdrung> hm, how does it break?
<bdrung> is there a breaks in control?
<Rhonda> yes
<Rhonda> So devscripts from wheezy-backports currently would uninstall ubuntu-dev-tools
<bdrung> ah, now i get it.
<bdrung> * Convert Python scripts to python3 (Closes: #680313).
<bdrung> ubuntu-dev-tools uses devscripts.logger and needs a Python 2 version of it
<bdrung> so yes, we need to also backport ubuntu-dev-tools
<Rhonda> That could have been more explicit in the changelog. :/
<bdrung> Rhonda: the changelog of ubuntu-dev-scripts 0.147 is an indicator
<bdrung> but you are right
<Laney> bdrung: are you backporting it?
<bdrung> Laney: i could, but feel free to do it
<Laney> rather not :P
<mfisch> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> mfisch, in uds hangouts - how can I help?
<mfisch> dholbach: yeah sorry, I'll email you later
<dholbach> no worries
<jtaylor> mh sweet ext4 data=writeback,commit=3600,nobarrier turns cowbuilder on disk almost into cowbuilder on ramdisk :D
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-20
<Noskcaj> Would it be ok to add version 0.8 of pyrocket to ubuntu if it's from a different maintainer? The quality is higher and the package is once again functional
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-21
<genupulas> hello
<genupulas> keep getting the same error
<genupulas> august@august-OEM:~$ bzr dh-make MPlayer 1.1 MPlayer-1.1.1.tar.xz
<genupulas> bzr: ERROR: Either run the command from an existing branch of upstream, or move MPlayer aside and a new branch will be created there.
<genupulas> how can i fix that ?
<genupulas> august@august-OEM:~$ bzr dh-make MPlayer-1.1 MPlayer-1.1.1.tar.xz
<genupulas> bzr: ERROR: command 'dh-make' requires argument TARBALL
<genupulas> august@august-OEM:~$ bzr dh-make MPlayer1.1 MPlayer-1.1.1.tar.xz
<genupulas> bzr: ERROR: command 'dh-make' requires argument TARBALL
<genupulas> august@august-OEM:~$ bzr dh-make MPlayer-1.1 MPlayer-1.1.1.tar.xz
<genupulas> bzr: ERROR: command 'dh-make' requires argument TARBALL
<genupulas> ok sorry
<genupulas> its solved. i have found it.
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
<genupulas> debuild: fatal error at line 1361:
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc failed
<genupulas> what I have to do ?
<genupulas> dholbach:  ^^
<dholbach> I'm in UDS sessions right now
<cjwatson> you should put rather more of the failure in pastebin if you want anyone to be able to help
<cjwatson> "debian/rules build gave error exit status 2" translates to "something went wrong earlier"
<genupulas> ok thank you
<dholbach> yes, use paste.ubuntu.com or something :)
<dholbach> and post the link here
<genupulas> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6453690/
<TheLordOfTime> hmm... any idea why quilt will fail to find a file that is defined in a patch, even though that file exists?
<tumbleweed> presumably there's more to it than that
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed: this is everything i have here for it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6454421/
<TheLordOfTime> when i do quilt import it "imports" the patch, when I do quilt push, it triggers that error and fails
<TheLordOfTime> and the file *does* actually exist
<jtaylor> thats a p0 patch
<jtaylor> quilt uses p1 by default
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor: everyone should just use p1 patches then...
<tumbleweed> yes, they should
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor: any way to convert it to p1 format, or would i be better off just manually going `quilt new patchfilename` then edit the file by hand to replicate the patch?
<TheLordOfTime> (I've had to do that for other patches before...)
<tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: put a/ in front of the filenames
<jtaylor> add a/ b/ in front
<TheLordOfTime> there we go
<TheLordOfTime> jtaylor: tumbleweed:  thanks for the assist, i was wondering why it wasn't working, didn't realize the difference in patch formats >.>
<TheLordOfTime> (seriously, everyone should just use p1 instead of p0)
<TheLordOfTime> (then this makes life easier for everyone)
<tumbleweed> unfortunately there are a zillion different patch formats
<TheLordOfTime> mhm
<cjwatson> or quilt refresh -p1
<cjwatson> (in fact I prefer -p ab)
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson: oh good you're alive.
<cjwatson> you can put that in ~/.quiltrc
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson: i was gonna ping you earlier but i didn't want to make noise here
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson: what's the syntax to add that to quiltrc?
<TheLordOfTime> also can i bug you to merge nginx 1.4.4 from Debian to Trusty, in order to fix some bugs that were fixed in Debian as well as two CVEs?
<cjwatson> QUILT_REFRESH_ARGS="--no-timestamps -p ab"
<TheLordOfTime> (since you were the last one to merge the package in)
<cjwatson> is what I have
<cjwatson> I'm not seeing a new nginx version in rmadison -u debian
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson: just uploaded today according to the debian system
<TheLordOfTime> might not be published yet
<cjwatson> right.  I'll merge it once it actually appears
<cjwatson> but I'm on vacation tomorrow so it might be Monday instead
<cjwatson> we'll see
<TheLordOfTime> i'm sorry, just one CVE bug right now is listed as fixed...
<TheLordOfTime> but it'll still close 1253691 with the merge.  (relevant debian bug 730012 reports "closed" by 1.4.4 which was only just uploaded today)
<ubottu> Debian bug 730012 in nginx "nginx: CVE-2013-4547" [Grave,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/730012
<TheLordOfTime> s/closed/fixed/
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson: and no rush, unless the security team starts breathing down your neck :p
<TheLordOfTime> i'm getting debdiffs made for P, Q, R, and S, though. so whenever :)
<Noskcaj> Can someone please branch lp:~noskcaj/ubunu/trusty/cx-freeze/4.3.2 , check i did the dh-python2 changes right and fix the disabled patch please?
<Noskcaj> oops, lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/cx-freeze/4.3.2
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-22
<genupulas> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6453690/
<genupulas> somebody help meplease
<tumbleweed> genupulas: Unmet build dependencies
<tumbleweed> either install them, or build in a chroot, with a tool that'll install them for you
<tumbleweed> like pbuilder / sbuild
<genupulas> so how  can I do in chroot ? what I have to type ? just pbuilder is enough ?
<genupulas> tumbleweed: ^^
<tumbleweed> genupulas: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html#set-up-pbuilder
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  thanks :)
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  at release , what will happen If I place debian names and not Ubuntu ?
<genupulas> which one is better ?
<tumbleweed> the one you want to build for is better :P
<genupulas> ok did typed pbuilder-dist saucy create
<tumbleweed> genupulas: right, then you'll build with pbuilder-dist saucy foo.dsc
<genupulas> what that foo.dsc ?
<genupulas> tumbleweed: ^^
<tumbleweed> your source package
<genupulas> ok
<genupulas> the previous command  going on now , after finishing that i will do this
<tumbleweed> which you'll get by doing a bzr bd -S
<xnox> tumbleweed: is it at all possible to make reverse-depends, _optionally_, take into account -proposed pocket (unless it already knows how to do it?)
<xnox> as a second index?
<xnox> cause at the moment, i need to hunt one by one and check if reverse-dependency was fixing in -proposed or not.
<tumbleweed> yeah, it only looks at the release pocket
<tumbleweed> patches accepted? :P
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6456373/
<genupulas> same again
<tumbleweed> genupulas: because you just ran the same thing again
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  I am not getting
<genupulas> what have to do ?
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> \o/ http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-packaging-guide-team/ubuntu-packaging-guide/trunk/revision/458
<Laney> :O
<dholbach> next up is Chinese and Italian it seems: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/
 * xnox ponders if debian/changelog examples are in french =)
<mitya57> dholbach: great job!
<dholbach> mitya57, good work from the French team! :)
<mitya57> dholbach: But commit was yours :)
<dholbach> haha
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: nginx done
<Laney> tumbleweed: care to sort out getting the needed deps of the sponsorship miner installed on new alioth?
<Laney> either that or move it to ubuntuwire I guess
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson: ack, saw that in my emails this morning.  thanks.
<Laney> also, hacked neglected-packages to use the new host but that should go to bzr
<Laney> & it should use python-distro-info - maybe push the branch somewhere under ~ubuntu-dev?
<tumbleweed> Laney: that all sounds sensible
<Laney> will do the last two things ;-)
<Laney> tumbleweed: oh, errrrrrr, you did some kind of rewrite that's not deployed
<tumbleweed> I guess python-distro-info should be added to those deps then
<Laney> aha
<Laney> it already is on ubuntuwire
<Laney> the version on alioth is some ancient thing
<tumbleweed> :(
<Laney> & does already use distro-info
<Laney> okay, so just the sponsorship miner to fix
<tumbleweed> that might have been from before we had up-to-date udd on syklone
<Laney> seems likely
<Laney> made neglected-packages redirect
 * tumbleweed mailed alioth admins
<Laney>  ta
<tumbleweed> Laney: sponsorship miner is working
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-23
<genupulas> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6461411/
<genupulas> tumbleweed: ^^
<tumbleweed> genupulas: if you want to build in pbuilder, you need to build a *source* package first
<tumbleweed> then ask pbuilder to build that
<tumbleweed> (at least that's where we left things last time)
<genupulas> any example please ?
<tumbleweed> right, now you need a .orig tarball
<tumbleweed> bzr bd -S -- -uc -us
<tumbleweed> I think I told you that before
<genupulas> doing freshly again
<genupulas> i already created that with dh_make here is the ls.
<genupulas> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6461436/
<genupulas> tumbleweed: ^^
<tumbleweed> genupulas: that should work
<tumbleweed> ah
<tumbleweed> you were in the wrong directory when you ran bzr builddeb
<genupulas> I ran the same in debian dir also and got same
<Unit193> (Or, use pdebuild)
<genupulas> tumbleweed: good news , I have got ot.
<genupulas> actually the  tar have 1.1-1 but origh have 1.1 and change log have 1.1-1  . i went up there and cleared that. now its fine. Thank you. be here please. I will paste here if any problems i have got. Thank you.
<tumbleweed> genupulas: the upstream version is 1.1, so it should be 1.1.orig.tar.whatever
<tumbleweed> err whatever_1.1.orig.tar.whatever
<genupulas> I have same issue that we got yesterday
<genupulas> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6461465/
<genupulas> dependecies
<tumbleweed> -S remember?
<tumbleweed> I've said this a few times now
<genupulas> command please \
<tumbleweed> bzr bd -S -- -uc -us
<genupulas> No that was successful : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6461474/
<tumbleweed> no it was
<tumbleweed> on line 32, you'd built a source package
<genupulas> Cleaning build dir: /home/august/Dev/build-area/mplayer-1.1
<tumbleweed> now you build that with pbuilder
<genupulas> what you want me to do ? type pbuilder ?
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  command please
<tumbleweed> pbuilder-dist saucy foo.dsc
<genupulas> what is the mistake i have done ?
<tumbleweed> you're building it directly on your system, where you don't have your build-deps
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  stream-client-dev{a} x11-common{a} x11proto-composite-dev{a}
<genupulas>  here why everywhere {a} ?
<tumbleweed> what's the context?
<tumbleweed> I suspect that could mean arch-all. I haven't used pbuilder in forever
<genupulas> current Ubuntu packaging some what different right ?
<genupulas> tumbleweed: success . Thank you
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  pbuilder-dist saucy *.dsc
<genupulas>  will create .deb ?
<genupulas> Please remember that the signature file (.sig or .asc)
<genupulas> should be the first file given on the command line.
<Laney> tumbleweed: excellent, ta
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-24
<alkisg> Hi, in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/files/ we're using intltool, but after compiling, it deletes po/ldm.pot and that confuses launchpad translation imports
<alkisg> Does someone know how to tell intltool to keep ldm.pot and not remove it?
<alkisg> I'm trying to overriding "mostlyclean:" with po/Makefile.am, but it doesn't appear to be working... help?!
<quidnunc> E: Logic failure in hook handling. Directory /var/cache/pbuilder/build//23956/tmp/hooks should exist but it does not
<quidnunc> ^ Why am I getting this when trying to run backportpackage?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-17
<sney> oh I see, I wasn't parsing the indents
<dholbach> good morning
<Logan_> someone want to comment on this (positive/critical of what I said)? willing to receive either - just want to know if my response was good or not: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/188110
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 188110 in Debian "[needs-packaging] zmviewer" [Unknown,Fix released]
<rbasak> Logan_: I'd say that "Won't Fix" implies that we'd refuse the package if somebody did prepare it. By definition, at that point, it'd be maintained so we'd be happy to carry it. So IMHO that status isn't really right.
<Logan_> idk, I didn't mean to be incendiary, but he took it that way
<rbasak> No point fighting over a bug status though.
<Logan_> I was just trying to be realistic about something that hasn't been touched since 2008
<rbasak> "You want to decide what is better for me without my consent, which puts you in the same camp as censors and other freedom takers." doesn't make any sense either.
<rbasak> Since he has root on his machine and can install from a PPA, etc.
<rbasak> So I agree with you there.
<ScottK> Logan_: Commented.
<Logan_> thanks guys :)
<rbasak> ScottK: I'd still say that Won't Fix is wrong, though. Even if not uploaded directly to Ubuntu, once uploaded to Debian and synced, it'd be valid and then Fix Released.
<rbasak> Won't Fix means that we'd refuse to carry it (even if through Debian), surely?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> That's not what wontfix means.
<ScottK> That'd be invalid.
<rbasak> Maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Bug%20statuses should be fixed then
<ScottK> rbasak: Why?  "It may also be used for feature requests that the developers do not want to implement" seems to fit perfectly.
<rbasak> We "want" to implement it. We "want" the package in Ubuntu (through Debian), at Wishlist importance.
<ScottK> In any case, anyone waiting for a new package to appear based on a needs-packaging bug is highly likely to be dissappointed.
<ScottK> That's tangential to an Ubuntu needs-packaging bug.
<ScottK> An Ubuntu bug is about Ubuntu devs fixing stuff.
<ScottK> We won't do it (wontfix), but get it in Debian if you can is quite reasonable (and typical).
<rbasak> So we link a Debian ITP bug.
<rbasak> The Ubuntu task gets marked Won't Fix.
<rbasak> Debian packages it. Ubuntu syncs it. Then the right status for the Ubuntu task is Fix Released. But it won't do that because it's Won't Fix.
<ScottK> Unless someone notices it and changes it.
<rbasak> That's why I think it's wrong. Makes more sense to leave the Ubuntu task valid and open.
<rbasak> Because it still is a valid wishlist item in Ubuntu, and reasonable to track it.
<rbasak> Those subscribed to the bug find out when it gets made available in Ubuntu, etc.
<ScottK> Since the Debian bug won't have the LP bug# in debian/changelog, it won't get changed unless someone changes it.
<ScottK> Either way, the current status of the bug won't affect the terminal status after a sync.
<ScottK> Two unrelated issues.
<ScottK> Personally, I think it would be more honest to wontfix all the needs-packaging bugs.
<rbasak> I think I have set Won't Fix on some bugs that I reasonably think will genuinely never get fixed, to be fair.
<rbasak> Though I leave a comment explaining this. So
<rbasak> then a potential contributor knows the status can be changed.
<rbasak> Setting realistic expectations is important.
<rbasak> Without a comment though, I still think Won't Fix implies we don't want it and will refuse it, which isn't true here.
<ScottK> If I was reviewing the package, I'm not sure I'd accept it.
<rbasak> In Debian?
<ScottK> We really don't need more cruft from dead upstreams.
<Logan_> I constantly see packages being removed from Debian and Ubuntu due to a dead upstream
<ScottK> Same.
<Logan_> we don't just package every tarball that's out there
<Logan_> I don't see why this should be an exception
<ScottK> I'd certainly ask the maintainer how they planned to get upstream maintenance done.
<rbasak> That's reasonable.
<rbasak> Though consider any other bug. "Only if concerns X and Y are addressed" isn't a Won't Fix. It's just a requirement for acceptance.
<ScottK> If the answer was along the lines of "I'm sure it'll be fine", I'd reject it.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-18
<dholbach> good morning
<teward> if i have a question about why a package shows up on the sponsoring queue as a 'kubuntu bugs' item, who should I be poking?
<teward> because i question *why* that's the case...
<tumbleweed> teward: presumably it's a package in the kubuntu seed?
<teward> tumbleweed: is there a manifest of the kubuntu seed?
<tumbleweed> teward: err I meant packageset
<teward> tumbleweed: right, i got the answer in #kubuntu-devel, my question now is why is it in the packageset in the first place :P
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-19
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-20
<dholbach> good morning
<sney> hexchat 2.10.1-2 has been uploaded to debian, includes fixes for 2 ubuntu issues
<sney> one issue was recently fixed with 2.10.1-1ubuntu1 but the other - perl plugin not building - was not
<mitya57> sney: I can sponsor the sync for you, what is your launchpad username?
<sney> sney
<mitya57> That was easy :)
<mitya57> Synced!
<sney> groovy
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-21
<dholbach> good morning
<eraclitux> hi all
<eraclitux> I'm attempting to create a PPA for a go (golang) application, is there any specific advice/howto other than http://packaging.ubuntu.com?
<ScottK> Someone might want to look at veromix and consider an upload that drops the plasma widget as that part's no longer supportable.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-16
<Unit193> micahg: Danke!
<dholbach> good morning
<bipul> Good morning.
<Laney> infinity: It'll get reverted unless you use the script
<Laney> unless it was correct
<infinity> Laney: I'm not familiar with "the script", but alright.
<Laney> lp:~developer-membership-board/+junk/packageset
 * Laney is running it now
<Laney> ok, it kept gdm3 :)
<teward> question regarding backports.  `requestbackport` shows a lot of -dbgsym packages, I assume those just need to 'install'?  Or is there no need to test those, since the built binaries (according to Debian) are the non '-dbgsym' packages?
<teward> (i.e. for requestbackport)
<Logan> teward: don't worry about those
<Logan> I feel like requestbackport should be filtering them out
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-17
<dholbach> good morning
<freeman__> hi all
<freeman__> iam new here , please help
<freeman__> i want to participate on ubuntu apps
<freeman__> i am here
<freeman__> :)
<sil2100> Hey!
<sil2100> freeman__: hello there, is there anything particular you would like to participate/help in?
<freeman__> no , until now i have nothing ,
<freeman__> plz how me something where i can participate
<freeman__> sop
<freeman__> so
 * Na3iL is away: AFK
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-18
<dupingping> Hi, motus.
<dupingping> How can i become a motu?
<teward> backport request guidance please
<teward> reverse-suggests - how do I handle those, since it's not an rdep can I safely ignore?
<teward> and debug symbols, can I ignore those for the 'run' portion of tests
<micahg> teward: reverse suggests can be safely ignored
<teward> micahg: OK, and the debug symbols packages, test for install but not run?
<teward> (like we had done before)
<micahg> yeah, that sounds fine
<teward> OK, when I run the requestbackport and adjust the report I'll make those notes
<teward> (znc 1.6.2 here we come!)
<teward> though, requestbackport doesn't take into account interim releases
<teward> which is annoying me
<teward> (more copypaste on my part)
<micahg> it does when it's required, just open a request for each release if you like
<teward> i can cluster them, or do separate ones, though having them in one would mean less link tracking for me to do :p
<teward> oh goody it builds in oldstable >.>
<micahg> heh, whatever is easier for you
<Acerio> Afternoon.
<Na3iL> o/
<Acerio> How are you, Na3iL?
<Na3iL> I am fine thanks Acerio what about you?
<Acerio> I am okay Na3iL, I am currently reading on the wiki about contributing to MOTU.
<Acerio> I have become very interested, lately, as I've been a Ubuntu user for some time now.
<Na3iL> Welcome Acerio :)
<Acerio> Thank you :]
<Acerio> Are you a MOTU member, Na3iL?
<Na3iL> Not yet Acerio , I am new as well.. I have read the wiki & some other resources of MOTU
<Na3iL> And currently am waiting for a stable connection.. to get more involved
<Acerio> I am currently doing so. Lots to read, and lots to be excited for.
<Acerio> What do you mean, by stable connection?
<Na3iL> I am connected via mobile, and the connection in my country is sucks, I can't even open duckduckgo.com
<Acerio> That is unfortunate Na3iL. Hopefully things will be better in the near future.
<Na3iL> Thank you Acerio I appreciate it :)
<Acerio> :]
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-19
<Acerio> Ubuntu 14.10 says that package "packaging-dev" was not found.
<Acerio> Though, the wiki on contributing says to do so.
<Acerio> Nevermind, 14.10 doesn't have that support, how silly of me!
<dholbach> good morning
<Acerio> It says, I need to apply to contribute here. Though, it all seems I don't. What is correct?
<Acerio> I've been reading some documentation on the wiki about contributing to MOTU.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-21
<mgolisch> there is no easy way to support building packages for different versions of ubuntu that require different versions of a dependency is there? Depends: blah-xxx|blah-yyy seems like a bad idea
<Na3iL> o/
<Logan> mgolisch: are you talking about a build dependency or a binary dependency? ${shlibs:Depends} should handle the latter
<mgolisch> Logan: binary dependency
<mgolisch> ill look into dpkg-shlibdeps
<mgolisch> yeah that seems to work
<Logan> mgolisch: awesome
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-21
<wxl> hey folks. kubuntu is planning a big sprint today to prepare uploads for the current plasma and frameworks. our backports are way behind. since we are without any active kubuntu developers with upload access, i've been tasked to try to find a motu that might be willing to help. anyone?
<sil2100> wxl: today? Which timezone?
<wxl> sil2100: yes, we're planning on doing that today. around 2200 UTC is when we're going to get started.
<sil2100> Oh my, that's a bit too late for me sadly
<wxl> sil2100: you available tomorrow or otherwise this week? what time?
<sil2100> wxl: I could have a spare cycle tomorrow morning UTC for some sponsoring if needed
<sil2100> wxl: in case you don't find anyone else to help, feel free to send me an e-mail with work that needs to be done
<wxl> sil2100: great. i'll talk with the team and see if we can't arrange around that. at least one of our team is on UTC time, so that should help. thanks!
<tsimonq2> Ooh, this is a thing. :)
<tsimonq2> o/, I'm Simon Quigley, here's my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> I'm a prospective MOTU. ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-22
<Unit193> mapreri: Congrats.
<RainCT> woah this room still exists
<Rhonda> lol
 * Laney rains on RainCT 
<highvoltage> It's also raining in CT
<Laney> and in the CT scanner
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-24
<Laney> jtaylor: I'm looking at some code inside cpl, and I see a name ... is it you? :-)
<Laney> if so, wondering if you can help with the armhf ftbfs
<Laney> it's because of unaligned access
<jtaylor> Laney: yes, I'd just remove it from arm, its not supported upstream and fixing it is not worth the trouble
<jtaylor> hm its something in the cpl_mask right? maybe one can switch it to use the peel loop for the whole thing on arm
<jtaylor> might be simple but super slow
<jtaylor> that would be hardcoding istop to zero
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-25
<mapreri> Unit193: :)
<tsimonq2> If any of you want to help me become MOTU, throw things at me. ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-26
 * wxl throws a rotten egg at tsimonq2 
<tsimonq2> wxl: So then what do you want me to do? :P
<wxl> tsimonq2: nothing. you didn't say you wanted to DO anything, but just that you wanted things thrown at you.
<tsimonq2> Well I want to do stuff
<tsimonq2> wxl: Happy? :P
<wxl> :)
<tsimonq2> So then for MOTUs reading the backlog. I'd already consider myself pretty good with packaging, just wondering what tasks I can do to gain experience for MOTU.
<Logan> tsimonq2: get merges/syncs sponsored
<tsimonq2> Logan: What specifically?
<Logan> anything
<tsimonq2> ...so then what needs to be synced?
<Logan> https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html is a good place to start for both of those tasks
<Logan> you can see where we have a delta with Debian and are out of date
<Logan> so all of those packages pretty much need to be merged or synced
<tsimonq2> Logan: So I need to go through those and just merge merge merge?
<Logan> pretty much
<Logan> that's what you'd be doing as a MOTU
<tsimonq2> Fair enough
<tsimonq2> Logan: Right now I have a focus on Kubuntu and Lubuntu so I'd start there
<Logan> sounds good to me
<tsimonq2> Logan: Also, how much is enough to apply for MOTU? Do I need to make a dent in that? (not saying I can't :P)
<Logan> I got MOTU when sponsors were sick of sponsoring my syncs/merges
<Logan> so basically make them sick of you
<wxl> oh Logan you don't know what you've done
<Logan> I am fully aware of my actions :P
<tsimonq2> Logan: Seriously. :P
<tsimonq2> As you say so, Logan ;)
<tsimonq2> s/so//
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-27
<tsimonq2> So what do I do if I find an issue that I can fix in Ubuntu AND Debian? I go through Debian's sponsorship process and let it sync down?
<Rhonda> tsimonq2: That's the idea.  Potentially you won't need sponsorhsip process for Debian but just convince the maintainer(s) of the package to apply the fix.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-11-22
<Rhonda> Hmm.  Is there something fishy with launchpad currently?  Can't change the status of a bugreport, a "Timeout error" popps up?
<Rhonda> Alright, one of those "nag about it, then it will work again" things
#ubuntu-motu 2018-11-23
<teward> Rhonda: probably a temporary transient issue
<teward> i get those from time to time :P
