#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-28
<quadrispro> scott-work, lv2fil and vocproc are waiting for the sync
<abogani2> persia: Happy to see you again :-)
<scott-work> hi persia
<scott-work> i hope my internet keeps working now, it was dropping in and out earlier
<scott-work> i see quadrispro left also :(
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-29
 * abogani2 waves
 * falktx continues the wave
<abogani2> scott-work: Are you around?
<abogani2> ScottL: ^
<scott-work> yes abogani2 
<abogani2> scott-work: Are you still here?
<abogani2> scott-work: I would want give you some news.
<abogani2> .
<abogani2> Next 15 Jule my adsl subscrition will expire. In any case I put -lowlatency and -realtime on http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git and on my PPA (https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa/+packages). I'll try to keep up-to-date also after the 15 Jule at my best. I notified also the Kernel Team and I think that -lowlatency could be accepted. I don't have idea about -realtime. Please consider that -rt in Maverick is comp
<abogani2> letely unsupported and I don't have yet decided if it is the case to request drop it.
<abogani2> scott-work, ScottL ^
<jussi> abogani2: you still dont have a job? :(
<abogani2> jussi: :-(
 * jussi huggles abogani2
<abogani2> jussi: huggles?
<jussi> abogani2: put arms around. *hug*
<abogani2> jussi: :-)
<scott-work> damn abogani already left :(
 * scott-work has had a very, very busy work day today
<scott-work> man i feel bad about abogani not getting a job
<TheMuso> ScottL: Unfortunately the loger you go without a job, the harder it can be to get one.
<TheMuso> longer
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-30
<ScottL> TheMuso, that's very true, and pretty damn sad as well :(
<TheMuso> yep
<falktx> LOL!
<falktx> http://www.fifa.com/confederationscup/destination/southafricafromatoz/letter=U/index.html
<falktx> check the ubuntu
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-01
<scott-work> persia are you around?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-02
 * abogani waves
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-27
 * abogani waves all
<abogani> Any news about -lowlatency testing?
<abogani> scott-work: Any news about -lowlatency testing?
<ailo> abogani, I will try to get something cone on that within the week
<ailo> done*
<abogani> ailo: I provide it also for Natty (for simplify your work)
<ailo> abogani, Great :).
<scott-work> abogani: sorry, been really busy this morning
<scott-work> abogani: yes!  i got an oneiric install done this weekend and i will install ardour,jack, etc tonight
<scott-work> abogani: i don't know of i will do any signficant testing tonight, but i should tomorrow night
<scott-work> i'm moving this ahead of testing falktx's menu fix because i _just_ _cannot_  it to blow up like falk says it should
 * scott-work is probably doing something wrong, which means means two wrongs make a right i guess
<abogani> scott-work: Don't worry I would want only if it is installable.
<scott-work> abogani: i noticed the new kernel in the oneiric install is linux 3.0...is the new -lowlatency still 2.6.39 or 3.0?
<scott-work> abogani: oh!  no problem on that tonight then :)
<abogani> scott-work: It is fully aligned.
<abogani> The lowlatency kernel is 3.0-2.3 like the -generic one.
<bassburner> Hey all.
<scott-work> bassburner: 
<scott-work> hi bas
<scott-work> bassburner: i do not have the .htaccess file but i will email jorge right now and ask for it
<bassburner> Ok. I'll try the default one for now.  He might not have ever made any changes to it.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-28
<falktx> howdy!
<dtchen> 'lo
<scott-work> astraljava: how is the mudita42 packaging going?
<scott-work> astraljava: do you have it in ppa where someone could use it?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-29
<ScottL> astraljava, funny i asked about mudita this afternoon because during my trip home i got an email saying it was pushed into Debian :)
<ScottL> astraljava, it would be awesome if you wanted to fill out a sync request
<astraljava> ScottL: Yep. :) yeah, I'll do that tomorrow.
<scott-work> astraljava: ping
<scott-work> hi bassburner , i'll be looking at the website shortly (hopefully tonight) and will have some comments on it
<scott-work> bassburner: i should also note that any suggestions you have would be most desired as well :)
<holstein> w00t
<holstein> im stoked about the site change
<holstein> i was just poking around on the current one to get an iso
<scott-work> holstein: yes, the old one is quite..."old"
<scott-work> lol
<scott-work> holstein: this is the one bassburner has up currently:  http://ubustu.exit66.com/
<scott-work> i can't view it at work and haven't had a chance the past couple of days at home either
<holstein> D00D
<holstein> that is *so* nice
<holstein> put it up :)
<holstein> ive been thinking since the meeting
<holstein> as much as i would like to move hosting off canonical
<holstein> i think we should stay there
<scott-work> then we need to get other people to get access as well, or perhaps i should run the charlie-tca route and ask for the ability to give other's permission
<astraljava> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/803645
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 803645 in Ubuntu "Sync request for mudita24" [Undecided,New]
<scott-work> astraljava: i was going to ask if you might want to help me with some backporting?
<astraljava> Okay, probably gonna be AFK for some while. Might make it to the meeting, but still unsure. Email if needed.
<astraljava> scott-work: I most certainly will!
<astraljava> Let's talk about that during the weekend if I'm able, early next week if not sooner.
<astraljava> I am skipping town tomorrow morning, and will not have a machine unless Jussi provides me one on Friday.
<astraljava> If not, I'll have access on Monday again.
<astraljava> Whoa! USB harddrive has root:gdm as privileges?!
<astraljava> Err... ownership.
<scott-work> astraljava: no problem, it's been hanging for a month or more so it can certainly wait a little longer ;)
<astraljava> scott-work: Cool, cool.
<dtchen> scott-work: should we stop shipping envy24control, then, in 11.10?
<astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, email me about the apps and stuff you'd like to be backported, and I'll see what I can do about them. I can set up chroots for any releases, but will not have full test envs until I move all my machines to the new place.
<dtchen> astraljava: ^^
<astraljava> dtchen: I've been using mudita24 for a while now, but granted, not exhaustively, and since there appears to be some issue with S/PDIF getting stuck after usage, I have refrained from hooking digital in for some while.
<astraljava> dtchen: What I'm trying to say, I'm not 100% positive it's a drop-in replacement. Can we still ship envy24control, you know, just to be on the safe side?
<scott-work> dtchen: i would like to
<dtchen> astraljava: what's the current situation with envy24control? I know for 11.04's it's pretty horrible.
<dtchen> astraljava: i.e., I began backporting all the necessary patches to SRU alsa-tools in 11.04 but got stalled.
<dtchen> astraljava: so I wonder in 11.10 currently whether envy24control is actually usable. My gut is "no".
<astraljava> dtchen: I haven't noticed any other peculiarities, outside that S/PDIF getting stuck.
<astraljava> And I have no idea so far where that problem lies in.
<scott-work> astraljava: is that with mudita or envycontrol?
<astraljava> scott-work: Both.
<scott-work> ah
<dtchen> astraljava: so envy24control works in 11.10?
<astraljava> scott-work: That was the reason I tried mudita24 in the first place.
<astraljava> scott-work: No change.
<dtchen> astraljava: ok
<scott-work> my expectation was that mudita24 would be a drop in replacement for envy24control
<astraljava> scott-work: I would _think_ so too, but I'm not a heavy-user by far.
<scott-work> the one thing that i particularly like about mudita24 is that the inputs have gradations on them
<astraljava> by any means*
<astraljava> scott-work: What's a gradation?
<scott-work> sadly the only machine that i could use to test is my main machine which i will not install 11.10 on it
<scott-work> astraljava: marking showing the level
<dtchen> so my proposal is to continue shipping envy24control as part of alsa-tools-gui
<scott-work> astraljava: this is a crappy picture but it makes my point:  http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/pub/doc/suse/suse9.0/userguide-9.0/sound_envy_analog.png
<scott-work> adjusting the levels is difficult because you don't know where these are set
<scott-work> astraljava: conversely, this shows the levels:  http://nielsmayer.com/envy24control/Mudita24-102-Analog-Volume.png
<scott-work> i was getting a distorted sound on my vocals because i never realised that some levels were not +0 at the top but +18
<astraljava> scott-work: Okay, gotcha.
<astraljava> dtchen: Yeah. I would have to agree with that.
<scott-work> dtchen:  are you advocating shipping envy24control along with mudita24?  and is that because we haven't validated mudita24?  or is there another reason?
<dtchen> scott-work: my primary focus is reducing duplication. If mudita24 is a drop-in replacement, that's a no-brainer.
<dtchen> scott-work: however, we haven't validated that the latter is a drop-in replacement, so it's better to be a bit conservative until we get more testers.
<scott-work> sounds good to me
<astraljava> Agreed. Now, must get my nightly 5 hours of sleep. Busy day tomorrow, err... today. See ya later, folks. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-30
 * ckontros is testing off apps on Android. Pay no attention. :)
<ckontros> s/off/irc
<ckontros> Bye
<holstein> i still prefer connectbot irc
<holstein> i can get to my screen session with it and get around OK
<ckontros> I'll look @ it.
<scott-work> abogani: i installed the -lowlatency kernel last night, everything went fine so far but i haven't done any testing as of yet
<scott-work> although i did spend some time establishing a baseline for the -generic performance
<abogani> scott-work: Really great. Thanks!
<scott-work> i hope that tonight i can spend some time testing the -lowlatency kernel
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-01
<ailo> ScottL, ping
<ScottL> ailo, pong
<ailo> Hi ScottL 
<ScottL> hi ailo
<ailo> How's progress? I was just working on the documentation a bit
<ailo> Realized I was overdoing some things. Hoping we can keep it really short and simple :P
<ScottL> i haven't done anything this week
<ScottL> but i have a hole in my schedule tomorrow afternoon that i was going to use for this
<ailo> No news on the XFCE bit?
<ailo> I just installed Oneiric yesterday btw
<ailo> And I got myself a firewire device a few days ago
<ScottL> ailo, i saw that you talking about your firewire in OSM
<ScottL> that's cool
<ScottL> the bit about xfce, cory has his packages lined out and is waiting for mr prouit (i think) to look over them
<ScottL> mr prouit is from the xubuntu devs
<ScottL> i really should go ahead and make my changes to the bzr branches in preparation for cory's changes
<ScottL> the loose schedule is to have this ready to test the xfce by alpha2
<ailo> ScottL, Sounds good.
<ailo> ScottL, As far as ubuntustudio-controls goes, I will need a couple of more weeks, but it's really not going to be much of a problem to code. 
<ailo> I should probably look into what's happening with python overall
<ailo> And gtk
<ailo> Things are changing now with Gnome3
<scott-work> ailo:  do have any of your notes somewhere where i can view them or should i just start making a google doc now?
<holstein> scott-work: are you talking about documentation?
<holstein> if so, get me in on that doc
<scott-work> holstein: i can do that
<scott-work> i have a process consideration or goal in documentation
<scott-work> i am hoping that at some point after we have started identifying what pages we would need that we can group them
<scott-work> and create major heading or topics
<scott-work> then using these topics we can start moderating the existing pages to fit this form so that when new pages are created we have a place to link them
<scott-work> i am concerned about having orhpan pages and a general lack of organization
<holstein> yeah, and im having a hard time getting my mind around it
<holstein> but, if ailo had a page where he could delegate some work, id chip away at it
<scott-work> if you want to read about what has already been done i'll provide some links
<scott-work> this is labaled as "video tutorials" but basically outlines what i felt the documentation should follow: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos
<scott-work> the very first section of this page was an attempt to organize it visually as well:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox
<scott-work> basically, the organizational thought was to create a linear path that would educate a new user through giving step-by-step examples for experienced users
<scott-work> hopefully we can also align/supplement this with actual videos as well for key areas
<holstein> yeah... its challenging, but i think its something that could at least aid
<holstein> these are things that most of which might actually be distro non-specific too
<holstein> which i think would be cool... get some arch user traffic or whatever
<holstein> not that im trying to convert, but having other users talk up our wiki's and tute's... that would be cool
<scott-work> oh agree, especially that jack stuff, explaining what it is, why is usefull, how powerful it is
<holstein> the key stuff right after you get it running
<scott-work> especially if we can get in early on new stuff like jack-session...i wonder how many people really understand what it is, why it's useful, and how to use it?
<holstein> tweaking it, and connecting... thats all generic
<scott-work> holstein: exactly, which is why i wanted to view this from a new user perspective
<scott-work> "key stuff right after you get runnign"^^^^
<holstein> scott-work: what i find is even alot of the ubuntustudio users dont know how to use it
<scott-work> by it do you mean "ubuntu studio" or "jack"?
<holstein> JACK
<scott-work> right
<scott-work> i agree, it's fucking daunting if you are uneducated about it
<scott-work> oops, sorry for language
<holstein> often, an old-schooler will pipe up in the OSMP channel and say 'OK... how the hell do i use JACK?"
<holstein> and ive been assuming they already were
<scott-work> lol...that's funny (and sad) how that happens
<holstein> some of them are coders too
<holstein> JACK is just different
<holstein> i think someone with access to a studio patchbay (which i have) might be able to draw some comparisons
<scott-work> a good picture of one would assist the analogy, certainly :)
<holstein> thats really a selling point too
<holstein> the thing that makes it challenging to a new user or convert would really turn a studio guy on
<holstein> and especially as this stuff gets more attractive looking
<holstein> the JACK connection GUI's
<scott-work> i saw that qjackctl has a new release
<scott-work> side note:  i hope to test the -lowlatency kernel past just installing it during the long weekend
<scott-work> hopefully then we can get it packages and start pushing it into the repos some what soon then after others test it as well
<scott-work> holstein: thanks, mike :)
<holstein> :)
<scott-work> i'll try to watch the videos soon to understand what's what
<holstein> i just did a 'hangout'
<holstein> i had a virtual tour of the main office at redhat :)
<scott-work> holstein: i had forgotten that ailo had shared a doc with me, i think i shared it with you as well
<holstein> scott-work: got it... thanks
<scott-work> holstein: i'm adding some stuff right now, i don't know how google is handling that or if you can update it or see that i've even changed it
<scott-work> not changed, but added to it
<holstein> its actually pretty quick to update
<holstein> we use one for the ubuntu weekly newsletter
<scott-work> that's cool
<scott-work> i'm thinking about how we describe things like recording audio with ardour
<scott-work> would it be better to give them a lot of little "block" of information or throw it all together in a tutorial with a larger goal?
<scott-work> example, i'm currently forwarding showing a user how to get sound ito ardour, then how to record a track, then how to multitrack it
<scott-work> or should this all just be wrapped into a tutorial?
<holstein> i think smaller ones that are well indexed somewhere
<holstein> then, we can add to the master index or whatever easily
<scott-work> i like this idea because if you are struggling to do a certain part it can be confusing to try to find that section within a larger tutorial sometimes
<holstein> yeah... i think its easier on both ends
<scott-work> i suppose if the tutorial were clearly laid out, "in the first part we will focus on getting audio into ardour" for example, it could still existin with a tutorial though
<scott-work> i kinda like the tutorial because it becomes kinda like a playbook for people to put it all together, even though the steps are logical and in order
<scott-work> i admit that i dislike it when people tell me, "look at the manpage" because i want more than just the specifics, i want an overall view of things, kinda like a well written tutorial
<scott-work> also, we need to think about how MIDI will fit within the audio portion, especially if we are using tutorials
<holstein> yeah... i think it'll be easier with an index
<holstein> then, we can edit as we go, if needed
<holstein> otherwise, we gotta get the whole thing laid out, and working, and then put it up
<scott-work> right, that's my feelings exactly :)   right on the head
<scott-work> i wish there was a white board we could use to scribble things together 
 * scott-work is going to lunch
<holstein> http://www.skrbl.com/173451774 maybe
<holstein> nah... its laggy
<ailo> scott-work, Just to add to the discussion on documentation. I really want to separate documentation that tries to teach users about how to make music and how to mix songs from the type of documentation that deals with just reference about the tools that are available
<ailo> I really would like the documentation to be as simple as possible, but have it include links to other documentation projects that deal with specific things
<ailo> While I was working on it before, I felt like the US documentation doesn't really be very extensive at all
<ailo> doesn't need to be extensive, is what I was trying to say
<scott-work> ailo:  i agree that a majority of the documetnation doesn't need to be extensive
<ailo> Workflows can be interesting, but they should be a separate part all togehter
<scott-work> many topics just need to be mentioned, almost in a casual conversational way, just so people are aware of it
<ailo> Right
<scott-work> audio interfaces are a subject like this, i believe
<scott-work> we can point out a few items to contrast their abilities and limitations and move on
<scott-work> ailo: i also agree with linking to other sources, saves time
<scott-work> ailo: but i'm not sure i understand what you mean about separating different documentations (this is from your first sentence)
<ailo> Well, I guess the best way is to show you what I would prefer, once I have it somewhat sorted out
<ailo> Right now, I have some topics, in order but I'm trying to decide what to write about each one
<ailo> One thing that came to mind, which seems like a big part of the audio bit, is about jack, PA, ladish and stuff like that
<ailo> scott-work, Did you work out how the PA-jack bridge works?
<scott-work> ailo: i did!
<scott-work> it worked well for my m-audio delta 44 card, but made the onboard card all but unusable
<ailo> scott-work, So, what do you think? Should we not try to add that as an option to system settings on a us-controls application?
<ailo> scott-work, Would you care to let me know about the details about that?
<scott-work> ailo: i would still consider including it by default
<scott-work> ailo: i will gladly share the details, but there isn't much
<ailo> scott-work, Any extra packages, or just a script?
<scott-work> ailo: i testing it twice before removing the pulseaudio-module-jack package because i was doing the linux outlaws interview using pulse and skype
<ailo> ok
<scott-work> ailo: all i did was install pulseaudio-module-jack and either relog or reboot (don't remember) and it worked
<scott-work> pulse sinks showed up in the jack connections window
<ailo> Aha, well, that's cool then. I think I tried it once, but no success
<ailo> Will need to try again
<scott-work> david h. said that natty was the first system to be "ready" for it (i think)
<scott-work> something about dbus or jack-dbus or something, cant' remember the specifics from the email on the list
<ailo> scott-work, Why is it that your onboard card didn't work, I wonder
<ailo> I should ask falktx about that maybe
<scott-work> i woudl like to know as well, i was planning on doing more testing with it, develop a procedure and then ask others to test it as well
<scott-work> but i need to get a few other things done first, like testing the -lowlatency kernel, documetnation, and updated the seeds for applications updates :)
<scott-work> ailo:  i want to reiterate something i told holstein, i think of the documentation progress as a linear progression of how i would explain ubuntu studio to a new user who is unfamiliar with it
<scott-work> ailo: my previous statement wasn't intended to mandate how the documentation of the organization, it was just to explain _my_ organization of it
<holstein> scott-work: you're allowed to mandate :)
<scott-work> lol, but that doesn't really facilitate cooperation, collaboration, or community ;)
<ailo> scott-work, No worries. I'm pretty flexible :P. I have some clues and ideas right now, and I feel ok with them. Just need to finish something up and present it
<holstein> ailo: i implied this earlier, but..
<holstein> if you are heading up this documentation
<holstein> feel free to farm things out to me
<holstein> i just cant seem to take the time to get my mind around the scope of how to get started
<ailo> holstein, One thing that I have no clue about right now is installation
<ailo> Since, we're moving on to Xubuntu based installation
<holstein> ailo: as long as its a wiki page right?
<holstein> and just says 'installation'
<holstein> we can update and switch out as needed
<ailo> I'm going to write stuff up in documents first
<holstein> ideally, a link to a youtube with a screencast
<holstein> and other visual aides
<ailo> holstein, About the wiki, I'm not in a hurry to start pages there yet. I want to work out the text somewhere first
<ailo> holstein, So, Google docs, or just OO docs is what I use right now
<holstein> ailo: and ideally, revamp what we got, and clean them up
<holstein> so theres not duplicates
<scott-work> holstein: ailo and i have had this discussion before so i'm hesitant to beat the dead horse, but... i agree that having some structure identified (an outline or skeleton) will greatly facilitate progress
<scott-work> although i think we need to all agree with the general outline or structure
<ailo> I think we'll get there pretty soon, but it's not a bad idea to just start somewhere either
<ailo> Like, doing something on just installation
<ailo> But, starting to add wiki pages without an idea about structure is perhaps a little tricky
<ailo> I feel more comfortable starting to work on the structure once I already have some text to fill it with
<ailo> That's why I'm starting off by just writing and thinking about the different topics
<ailo> Like, the sound system. PA, jack, alsa
<ailo> It gets a little complicated trying to explain the sound system in just a few lines
<ailo> For new users, that is
<scott-work> ailo: i agree :)
<ailo> But, if we have a very nice default way of doing things, we can just very quickly describe that
<scott-work> but a few sentences can explain that there are two and that they serve different purposes
<ailo> And give reference on each sound system separately at their own pages, if we want
<ailo> Like, it's not hard to get some sound out, if you do this, this and this. No need to go inte detail. In this sence, that description would be more workflÃ¶w based
<ailo> At the end of the page you can have some links for Alsa, PA, Jack, OSS and whatever else
<ailo> Anyway, that's one thing I've been thinking about now
<ailo> And also about hardware and devices
<ailo> pci, usb and firewire
<ailo> Cause it would be nice if it all could be explained quickly and very generally
<ailo> The first thing a user wants, is just to start working on music. They want to get right into it
<ailo> And try things out
<ailo> Once they've done that a bit, they might revisit the documentation to read about more advanced topics
<ailo> Or, video
<ailo> Or, graphics
<ailo> At first, I see it as a three step process. 1. install. 2. sound-check (jack, drivers, video-drivers, etc). 3. programs
<ailo> Once you've done those three steps you might want to learn more about each step
<ailo> The most frustrating thing that can happen to the user is when 1. installation doesn't work. 2. Can't get any sound
<holstein> i like where this is going :)
<holstein> is there a way to view all the current pages in ubuntustudio/*
<holstein> on the wiki
<ailo> We've been talking about tagging them
<ailo> I don't know that much about the wiki myself, but I suppose tagging them would allow to see all pages in an index
<ailo> Or, is it by adding a category?
<holstein> im not sure about the indards, but its quite configurable
<holstein> and ideally, they are just easy to find, and logically linked together
<holstein> and from the site
<holstein> now.. you look at something simple like !vanilla, and its all over the place
<holstein> it would be easier i think going forward to think about having one page for things like that
<holstein> instead of vanilla in hardy or whatever
<holstein> just one running wiki that we can add to, and update, and remove stuff
<holstein> anyways, ailo.. if you get the outline going, i can poke around and find pages that may be what we need, and plug them in on the google doc
<holstein> we can revamp them with the material we have on the doc
<holstein> i have a blueray burner coming today
<ailo> holstein, You think you'll have any use for it? :P
<holstein> im looking forward to archiving some ardour sessions easily, and getting them off the main machine
<holstein> ailo: i plan on just using it for data
<ailo> holstein, Is it very reliable, do you think?
<holstein> ailo: i'll let you know ;)
<ailo> Why not hard drives? Isn't that cheaper
<holstein> i have an internal 1tb and external that im mirroring to
<holstein> but still, i'd like to just archive some things and not mirror them and/or worry with them
<ailo> I got to get some server space somewhere one of these days
<ailo> Just for files
<holstein> i thought about that too
<holstein> im just not ready yet
<ailo> Not good having all machines under one roof
<holstein> theres that too
<holstein> i can archive, and leave a copy somewhere else if its something that important
<holstein> over at my parents house or whatever
<ailo> We have a machine standing in my rehearsal. I use git to sync the machines
<ailo> But, the bandwidth is too slow
<ailo> Doesn't really work with large audio files
<holstein> imagine with video :/
<ailo> Mobile internet is getting cheaper, but it'll be a while before I get that
<ailo> Would be nice with 100 Mbit
<scott-work> i use several portable usb drives to backup and most of the time i keep one at work as well just to get it away from the others
<scott-work> i had been backup up to cds and dvds but i heard that cds/dvds go bad over several years
<scott-work> s/backup/backing up
<scott-work> i had considered somethign like carbonte which i hear as a flat $57 a year for infinite backup but i don't think there is a linux client
<saidinesh5> ailo: where do you stay??
<ailo> saidinesh5, You mean, where do I live?
<ailo> Sweden
<saidinesh5> hehe..... ya
<saidinesh5> just curious.....since you mentioned 100Mbit :P
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-03
<astraljava> Was there a meeting today?
<astraljava> Ahh... nevermind, thought I'd hit the wiki instead. :D
<astraljava> ...which seems dead for a change...
<astraljava> So, 1700 UTC?
<holstein> astraljava: yeah
<holstein> an hour and a half away
<holstein> *in theory
<holstein> its a holiday weekend in the states
<holstein> ScottL: are you around today for the meeting
<holstein> ?
<holstein> hey ailo_ :)
<astraljava> holstein: Right, yeah everybody's out in Mexico getting robbed.
<astraljava> And no, I don't mean everybody gets robbed while in Mexico. I am pointing to the headlines which said a drug cartel was specifically aiming for American tourists this weekend.
<holstein> *due to the holidays, the ubuntustudio meeting scheduled for 15 minutes ago will be cancelled
<holstein> we'll catch up next time :)
<astraljava> Okay. :)
<ailo_> postpone it a week?
<holstein> ailo_: i was just about to talk with shnatsel about that
<holstein> ailo_: we can
<holstein> also, shnatsel posted https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2011-June/003391.html
<holstein> shnatsel: COOL.. you're an elementaryOS dev?
<shnatsel> holstein: yes
<shnatsel> holstein: I'm one of the packagers, but my main role is maintaining the ISO and integrating our stuff into Ubuntu base
<shnatsel> and lots of other miscellaneous work we all get now and then
<shnatsel> I used to maintain a small artistic Ubuntu spin for 2 years, that's when I learned lots of things that led me to being elementary OS dev :)
<holstein> shnatsel: glad you are here
<holstein> we are actually focused quite heavily on audio
<holstein> it would be great to have someone more aware of graphics
<shnatsel> holstein: well, that might be me
<shnatsel> Ubuntu seriously lacks painterly software
<holstein> agreed
<holstein> when i saw that post, i personally dont know enough about graphics to respond
<holstein> and, when folks come in with new audio apps, i see they are usually directed to get them in upstream
<holstein> however, it didnt look like those are totally differnt apps
<holstein> so it might be something we can implement
<holstein> shnatsel: how official is elemetaryOS ??
<holstein> seems we are quite bound to the buntu base in a way that can actually keep us from implementing some features
<shnatsel> holstein: absolutely official for our project, not related to canonical
<shnatsel> holstein: these apps are not related to elementary OS anyway
<holstein> i guess my gerneral concern is, if these are *not* in the repos
<holstein> we really cant implement it
<holstein> we needed a proper kernel for 11.04
<holstein> it didnt get worked into the repos
<holstein> so, we just dont have a proper kernel
<holstein> for realtime audio
<shnatsel> holstein: yeah, I know, trademark and such
<shnatsel> holstein: no, they are not in the repos, some of them weren't even packaged. It would be nice if somebody pushed them there, though.
<holstein> are these things you can push to debian?
<shnatsel> I'm an absolute noob at all the paperwork related to it and I've never did it
<holstein> im pretty sure that is the quickest way to get something in ubuntu
<shnatsel> holstein: Debian seems to use systems so ancient that I couldn't even report a bug about it
<shnatsel> I spent 15 minutes but then gave it up
<holstein> shnatsel: we'll talk to ScottL about it more when he's around
<shnatsel> holstein: thanks!
<holstein> ScottL is the team lead
<shnatsel> it obviously was not a problem to put all that in an unofficial spin
<holstein> yeah... thats the issue though, we cant stray to far it seems
<astraljava> shnatsel: If you could list them in wiki somewhere, we could start working on packaging them, and pushing to debian.
<shnatsel> astraljava: they're already packaged
<shnatsel> astraljava: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2011-June/003391.html
<astraljava> shnatsel: Ahh... okay cool. Right, so all that's needed is to check they conform to debian policies, then file ITP and RFP bugs, and find sponsors for uploading.
<shnatsel> astraljava: I really suck at paperwork
<astraljava> shnatsel: Oh that's what you were referring to. :)
<shnatsel> astraljava: would somebody else do it? Please?
<astraljava> shnatsel: Sure. I'm in the middle of moving, so I don't have my testing env etc. with me at the moment. But if no-one else will, I'll do that in August.
<shnatsel> astraljava: thanks!
<shnatsel> hmm, in August you'll have to request an Ubuntu import for those packages, too...
<astraljava> shnatsel: No prob. Thank _you_ for contributing! :)
<astraljava> shnatsel: True, if you want them in for Oneiric, you might wanna find someone to do it faster than that.
<holstein> astraljava: if you can point some things in my direction that i can handle, i'll do them
<astraljava> holstein: Well, for myself to feel comfortable with uploading a package, I'd test it in a real debian environment. I'm not sure it's required, though. So just get it building against a debian sid chroot, and test that it installs there, that might suffice.
<astraljava> s/uploading/asking someone to upload/
<kubotu> astraljava meant: "holstein: Well, for myself to feel comfortable with asking someone to upload a package, I'd test it in a real debian environment. I'm not sure it's required, though. So just get it building against a debian sid chroot, and test that it installs there, that might suffice."
<holstein> astraljava: yeah, i cant handle that though
<holstein> not in a timely manner, thats for sure
<astraljava> holstein: To cut some corners, I could do the chroot thingie faster, of course. Depends then on the sponsor whether or not [s]he will upload.
<shnatsel> if there are issues with those packages and I'm not here, you can always find me at #elementary or at shnatsel@gmail.com (except August)
<astraljava> To be honest, I don't really know whether they test their packages in a real system before uploading. :)
<astraljava> Just I assume it would be a good thing to do.
<astraljava> shnatsel: Gotcha, thanks!
<shnatsel> astraljava: those packages are well-tested on Ubuntu systems already, I've shipped them with my spin and discovered several bugs related to installing on a blank system etc, so now it should work just perfectly fine
<shnatsel> astraljava: got your heads-up :)
<astraljava> shnatsel: Good. :)
<shnatsel> Also, I hear you're moving to XFCE base, why?
<astraljava> shnatsel: So that gives me confidence in getting them somewhere where the devs can upload.
<astraljava> shnatsel: Because the team felt that GNOME3 doesn't suit our workflow, and GNOME2 is going away for Oneiric.
<astraljava> XFCE was the closest.
<shnatsel> in elementary we considered using XFCE as base, we ended up having both GNOME daemons and XFCE daemons if we use some real-life apps, and some GNOME systems are greatly superior to XFCE equivalents, e.g. dconf/GSettings is far superior to xfconf
<shnatsel> But, I haven't seen your apps and workflow, XFCE might suit you better indeed
<shnatsel> Ok, gotta go hack something :)
<shnatsel> Good luck and have fun
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-25
<Len-live> astraljava, todays ISO has devices again.
<astraljava> Len-live: Yep, see lp: #1014632 for details.
<astraljava> bug #1014632
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1014632 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Drives/partitions not showing in left pane" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014632
<Len-live> I will mark my bug as a dup
<Len-live> Thanks
<astraljava> Thanks for confirming.
<Len-live> No problem.
<Len-live> Bug #1016978  is now marked as a dup of Bug #1014632
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1014632 in thunar (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1016978 Drives/partitions not showing in left pane" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014632
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1014632 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Drives/partitions not showing in left pane" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014632
<astraljava> len-1210: We just need to make sure that udisks2 gets installed if we decide to drop thunar.
<len-1210> Hmm, software center does not show ubuntustudio meta packages
<len-1210> astraljava, ok... I'll remember (I hope)
<len-1210> We should probably just seed it
<len-1210> astraljava, The other bug I mentioned the other day about utils-linux may affect udisks2 as well. but it sounds like it should get fixed. Its in progress.
<len-1210> with regard to software center vs synaptic. SW center does not show the ubuntustudio metas.
<len-1210> I wonder what else it doesn't show.
<scott-work> ack, is libgnome-desktop-3-4 a gnome3 package?
<scott-work> oh, sorry, it was gnome-desktop3-data
<scott-work> ah, i bet it's a multi-arch problem which is going to only affect the amd64 image
<micahg> scott-work: well, it's amd64 only, but it's based on archive skew, not multiarch issues, and the builds should have finished now
<scott-work> micahg: ah, okay, thanks :)
<len-dt> scott-work, I have had an idea to do with loading workflow software.
<len-dt> scott-work, I have heard the idea of ubiquity plugins to do that, but am thinking that ubiquity is mostly a file copy program and not a package installer.
<scott-work> len-dt: astraljava has worked on a ubiquity plugin to get the workflows installed based on seeds
<len-dt> scott-work, I was looking at the software center button on the menu and wondered if that would be better.
<len-dt> scott-work, ubiquity gets uninstalled after it has doen its work
<scott-work> ah, you mean after installation of the OS
<scott-work> i think i understand better now
<len-dt> so while it would be useful for choosing what to install at ISO install time that would work
<len-dt> software center can be started with a set list of software
<scott-work> len-dt: i had given thought to an app that would help people install the work flows and maybe even help them start them as well
<len-dt> scott-work, So instead of just a SW center button there could be a submenu with different ways of starting the software center 
<scott-work> len-dt: interesting, so making it a menu entry...very different
<scott-work> i need to go get kids in a minute
<len-dt> The only problem I have had so far is having it show meta packages.
<len-dt> No prob.
<scott-work> i had a celeron computer set up for irc upstairs and it crapped out and died on me :(
<scott-work> now i have to find another solution for keeping irc on at the house
<len-dt> 486dx100
<scott-work> i have an idea for one that i might set up tonight in the interim
<scott-work> lol
<len-dt> text of course.
<scott-work> heh, actually i have USFF dell dual core 2.xghz machine i was going to use instead for now
<scott-work> i figure that would actually generate less heat that any of the 486's i have
<len-dt> I think the atom based MB are the best for low heat/noise/power use
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-26
<esevece> Hi. I've recently installed Ubuntu Studio 12.04 but it didn't start Jack. I've found the solution:
<esevece> I've added my user to audio group.
<esevece> And renamed the file audio.conf.disabled (etc/security/limits.d) to audio.conf
<esevece> Logout and Login. Now Jack is working.
<esevece> Have someone access to the distribution for fix it?
<astraljava> Err... who entered us into Alpha-2? Scott?
<astraljava> We don't even have a currently building amd64 image, and on top of that we're having gnome-desktop seeded (due recommends).
<astraljava> I suppose it won't hurt, in the end, but I'm not sure, and I particularly wouldn't want to see it there, it is bloating our images, and every bit of cruft is a potential game-breaker.
<astraljava> Hrm... yet the iso seems to be there, despite the cdimage mail telling us it failed.
<astraljava> Well, I suppose we can participate after all. I'll announce it on the lists soon-ish.
<astraljava> len-dt: Len-nb: I'd appreciate your opinion of the sanity of this, though. I suppose you're the only one who has tested it somewhat extensively.
<astraljava> on the sanity*
<len-dt> astraljava, we can do that, but really we haven't done anything. All we are testing is that we are still at 12.04
<len-dt> I didn't notice that there was more than one desktop. But everything seems to be there as before.
<len-dt> astraljava, I should also note I only have i386 HW.
<astraljava> len-dt: That's fine. But we're not actually testing that, we're testing the the Xfce 4.10 update hasn't given us grief in any way.
<astraljava> len-dt: I'll do the amd64 tests.
<len-dt> astraljava, ok, which date ISO should I use? I think I have been using june 24
<astraljava> len-dt: In the iso.qa.ubuntu.com tracker the Alpha-2 images are from yesterday's build, 25th.
<len-dt> downloading...
<astraljava> len-dt: Mind you, the testcases are most likely rubbish. We're re-doing them on the Xubuntu side. Once I get them semi-finished, I'll look over Studio's and see how they correlate.
<astraljava> I probably should pay more attention to Studio, but I don't have any titles over on this side of the pond. :D
<len-dt> astraljava, Shh, you might get some...
<len-dt> astraljava, how do we put settings in that require the change of a file installed by other packages?
<len-dt> astraljava, we have made some things available with our kernel, but not set the permissions. I would like to see swappiness changed as well.
<len-dt> Right now midi programs do not have access to the high precision timers.
<astraljava> len-dt: I don't know, really. I'll have to read about it. At some point the recommendation was dpkg-divert, but that's history. I'm not sure what needs to be used now.
<scott-work> len-dt: for what it may be worth, you _could_ correspond with ralph from the mailing list, he's a little different but appears to be fairly knowledgeable, especially about MIDI and timers and jitter
<scott-work> anybody testing the QA images yet?
<scott-work> i will start tonight
<astraljava> scott-work: I'll try to give the amd64 ones a spin.
<astraljava> scott-work: Did you enroll us to the milestone?
<scott-work> astraljava: i believe we are enrolled into the milestones by default and must actively remove ourselves if we choose
<astraljava> scott-work: Ahh... ok. skaet was just asking explicitly from me over on the Xubuntu side, maybe there was a reason. :)
<scott-work> astraljava: i don't know about that, hmmmmm
<scott-work> astraljava: skaet hit me up for the A2 milestone :P
<astraljava> Ok, and what was your decision? Keeping it?
<scott-work> yeah, i think we should do it even though there really isn't anything really to "check" as new items or features
<scott-work> of course there are still the "plumbing" that changes often and might cause some issues
<scott-work> if you are going to do the 64bit then i'll hit the 32bit images
<len-dt> scott-work, I have downloaded the 32 bit. I'll print and test in a few minutes..
<astraljava> scott-work: Do you know why today's images were added as the Alpha-2 images?
<len-dt> astraljava, I was about to ask which ones I should test :)
<astraljava> len-dt: Well, I hope you didn't get to the tests yet with the now outdated images. :)
<len-dt> I was just about to print the iso, but there is a june 26...
<len-dt> The testing tracker says the 26th is the one to use.
<astraljava> Yep.
<len-dt> When did alpha 1 get done?
<astraljava> It didn't.
<astraljava> Or do you mean in general?
<astraljava> I think it was early June.
<len-dt> Ah, ok.
<len-dt> Downloading todays image
<len-dt> How come there is a fail report on the list astraljava, and yet an ISO too?
<astraljava> I'm not seeing any reports.
<astraljava> Both products have 0/2 in Mandatory column.
<len-dt> astraljava, no I mean in the email list there is a fail report generated at 11.19 today (probably PDT)
<len-dt> As in fail to build.
<len-dt> LiveFS ubuntustudio-dvd/quantal/i386 failed to build on 20120626
<len-dt> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<len-dt>  linux-lowlatency-pae : Depends: linux-image-lowlatency-pae (= 3.5.0.1.1) but it is
<len-dt> not going to be installed
<astraljava> Oh, yeah. *shrug* there was one yesterday for amd64, yet there was an image for it.
<micahg> rtg should've fixed the meta package when he uploaded it
<micahg> there should no longer be a pae variant in the meta since there's no longer a pae variant built by the kernel
<micahg> astraljava: can you file a bug and subscribe rtg?
<astraljava> micahg: Yes of course, thanks for the update.
<micahg> *pae named variant, i386 is PAE
<micahg> the seeds will need an update as well as an ubuntustudio-meta upload when the lowlatency-meta is fixed
<astraljava> Yep, was just about to head on that direction.
<len-dt> astraljava, the kernel in the ISO is the old 3.2 one, but is still low lat.
<len-dt> i386 live session passed.
<astraljava> micahg: I'm assuming rtg is "serc (rtg)" on LP?
<micahg> astraljava: no
<micahg> astraljava: timg-tpi
<micahg> astraljava: scratch that, it was infinity :)(
<astraljava> Adam?
<micahg> yeah
<astraljava> Thanks. bug #1018075
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018075 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "quantal still wants linux-lowlatency-pae on i386 even when that variant has gone away already" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018075
<len-dt> astraljava, when you test the 64bit ISO please look at the menus in nautilus. They look "funny" to me.
<astraljava> micahg: Does the line " * (linux-headers-lowlatency) [i386 amd64]" look alright to you? I mean, does it need both archs now that the package name is the same for both of them?
<astraljava> len-dt: Ok, but I might get there tomorrow only, I'm afraid the new images will take a while and I'd need to sleep (probably) during the night. :)
<micahg> astraljava: yeah, I don't think you need the archs listed, you can look at the history of the file to be sure
<astraljava> micahg: I'm confused because I see:" * (usb-creator-gtk) [i386 amd64]"
<micahg> hrm, maybe you do, idr, ISTR germinate will DTRT though since the other archs aren't in the archive
<astraljava> Ok, I'll purge them.
<scott-work> skaet just mentioned that they will be respinning our images for a new kernel, not sure the backstory on that though
<astraljava> scott-work: It was just being taken care of. :)
<scott-work> oh, good :)
<len-live> astraljava, If your menus in nautilus look funny, confirm bug  #1018080
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018080 in ubuntustudio-look (Ubuntu) "colours in some applications menus looks wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018080
<astraljava> scott-work: The details were that the -meta still had -pae variant for i386, it's now removed. I filed the bug #1018075 as per micahg's instructions (thanks!), and updated the seeds regarding the headers accordingly.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018075 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "quantal still wants linux-lowlatency-pae on i386 even when that variant has gone away already" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018075
<micahg> astraljava: except you missed the part about the lowlatency-meta :)
<astraljava> Err... ok, sorry about that. I'll change the package on the bug. :)
<micahg> astraljava: you might want to poke infinity in -release since it's a blocker
<micahg> astraljava: no, you need both
<micahg> I added the task already
<astraljava> Alright, thanks. /me is still learning when it comes to kernels (especially)
<len-live> scott-work, BTW, I also see: (apport-gtk:3981): Gtk-WARNING **: Theme parsing error: misc.css:80:18: Not using units is deprecated. Assuming 'px'.
<len-live> I don't know if this is anything to do with the theme change or not.
<scott-work> len-live: i don't know, it might be an issue with apport
<astraljava> len-live: Btw. I'm already having problems with nautilus on precise, once we're past this milestone I'm gonna have to look into that.
<micahg> astraljava: and apparently I forgot about the 3 other places that need to be fixed :)
<astraljava> micahg: Noticed, but we can't touch those anyway, can we? :)
<len-live> Ok, on to install test.
<micahg> astraljava: I can touch some of them :), but I'll leave it to infinity, and he's right, we need transitional packages
<astraljava> True dat, also.
<astraljava> micahg: scott-work: len-live: I'll be taking a nap now. I try to keep it short, so if you need something done, I'll see it in a few. Otherwise, I think we can proceed now. Thanks everyone so far!
 * micahg should be around for another few hours working
<len-live> astraljava, micahg proceed? Is there another ISO roll? or can I continue with the one I have?
<micahg> len-live: there will be another, but you probably want to test what you have in case there are bugs in non-kernel related things
<len-live> ok micahg installing now.
<len-live> scott-work, The background for the text is also the wrong colour on ubiquity.
<scott-work> len-live: hmmm, that's disappointing because i thought we had worked through that before
<len-live> scott-work, Remember we have xfce 4.10 now. Themeing may have changed
<len-live> Some apps are still ok (Xchat for example)
<len-dt> micahg, what package would I put a kernel module (ath9k) bug under?
<micahg> should be linux I think
<len-dt> Ok, I wasn't sure if there was a second package of the modules.
<micahg> not AFAICT
<scott-work> len-dt: ah hes, i had forgotten
<len-dt> micahg, Just installed ubuntustudio 12.10 alpha... tried ubuntu-bug linux. It says it can't report the bug because it is not an "official" ubuntu package   :-)
<len-dt> Guess I have to wait for the reroll of the ISO before reporting that one.
<micahg> len-dt: hrm, well, there was a meta bump already :(
<micahg> yeah, that's a kernel bug though, so you might want to wait for the new one, what does uname -a say?
<len-1210> len@Ustudio1210:~$ uname -a
<len-1210> Linux Ustudio1210 3.2.0-23-lowlatency-pae #31-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Wed Apr 11 04:07:36 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux
<micahg> yeah, no point in reporting that
<micahg> at least on a quantal image
<len-1210> Thats what it builds with... so tha in itself is a bug.
<len-1210> But in progress I guess?
<micahg> no, but the respin now will pick up 3.5
<len-1210> do you know the eta?
<micahg> nope
<len-1210> I won't wait then
<len-dt> micahg, will the respin still be alpha 2?
<micahg> yes, alpha2 candidate
<ailo> I guess we should think about what to do with -lowlatency?
<ailo> Haven't read anything new from UTK for a while about it
<len-dt> ailo, if we will test against generic it will have to be 3.5. I don't know if any of the changes have affected low latency operation for good or bad.
<ailo> We definately do need to test. I tried uploading the source to PPA a couple of weeks ago, but made a mistake. Haven't had time since. Will do it again later this week
<ailo> I hope to start working on testing later this week, and also start looking at how we could improve the developer wiki
<ailo> Time to start thinking about -controls as well, if that is to be included for next release
<ailo> Been really busy :P
<ailo> And the midsummer was long and hazy
<ailo> I'm going to pursue becoming a member of the Debian Multimedia Team btw
<ailo> Not going to happen over night though
<micahg> ailo: lowlatency 3.5 is in the quantal repo now
<ailo> micahg: I see.
<ailo> But we will want to try some different cofigs nevertheless, so I will still upload to PPA later
<ailo> Seems like UTK is maintaining -lowlatency for quantal then
<ailo> The precise kernel is still not up to date, right?
<ailo> 3.2.0-23
<ailo> Well, another day tomorrow :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-27
<len-1210> 3.5 low latency kernel ath9k wireless driver causes even more xruns than 3.2.
<len-1210> glad its easy to unload...
<len-dt> astraljava, micahg there is no i386 ISO on the respin.
<len-dt> yesterdays ISO did upgrade to the new kernel though.
<len-dt> The 3.5 kernel does not seem to be as good for audio work as the 3.2 was though.
<len-dt> ailo, ^^^
<astraljava> len-dt: That's worrying, and I didn't see a failed image process mail either.
<astraljava> len-dt: Ok, so if the 26th image now has the updated kernel, then maybe that arch didn't require a later respin.
<len-dt> astraljava, The only reason I have the updated kernel is because the updater installed it.
<astraljava> Oh, damn.
<len-dt> The ISO comes with the precise kernel.
<astraljava> A new one has been ordered, but I dunno when it's delivered. :)
<len-dt> No problem. As I said, I don't like the kernel, it seems to not do audio as good as the old one.
<astraljava> Alright. Don't know what could be done about that, but let's think/chat next week. :)
<micahg> len-dt: the good news is you've got almost 4 months to get your issues fixed :)
<micahg> well, 3 really with kernel freeze
<len-dt> micahg, wish I had a few more kernel smarts though...
<len-dt> I am going to have to try some things. I did do a few some playing with precise to get it better, but this seems worse than where I started from.
<len-dt> I will try moving the USB drive I have it loaded on to different places and see if that helps.
<astraljava> Notice(queuebot): Builds: Ubuntu Studio DVD i386 [Quantal Alpha 2] has been updated (20120627.2)
<astraljava> len-dt: FYI ^^
<len-dt> Yup I see it. Thanks
<len-dt> astraljava, Downloading...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-28
<len-dt> astraljava, alpha 2 i386 tested. Everything seems to be the same. The 3.5 kernel is there, it's audio performance seems not as good as 3.2... but much better than generic (tested upstream generic)
<len-dt> upstream testing was done for bug #1018220
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018220 in linux-lowlatency (Ubuntu) "168c:002b ath9k wireless module interferes with low latency audio" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018220
<len-dt> ailo, Is there anywhere in the documentation that suggests USB audio IF should be plugged in before boot?
<len-dt> ailo, it seems to me the rtirq script gets run once at boot and so a USB IF plugged in after that will give poor performance... maybe even worse than if the script was not run at all.
 * len-dt was having trouble with his USB IF last night...
<len-dt> ailo, I will do more testing with this, both audio and midi.
<len-dt> ailo, I think I will have a change from runlevel * to runlevel 3 rerun the script.
<len-dt> or at least have that option.
<scott-work> can someone help kate stewart with the A2 release?
<scott-work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Alpha2
<scott-work> i'm really busy at work
<scott-work> have all test been done?
<scott-work> can we fill in some technical items to check in the link?
<ailo> len-dt: If the rtirq script is needed for the usb device, maybe we can make the script restart. Haven't tried that
<astraljava> scott-work: There's not much to say, only Xfce 4.10 update, and kernel bump to 3.5. I'll tell her that.
<astraljava> scott-work: And I didn't have time to do the amd64 tests, all available spare time went to Xubuntu QA.
<len-dt> astraljava, ailo according to the web page Scott gave up a bit, "The GTK updates created some theming issues (incorrect colors in some indicators) "
<len-dt> ailo, Should the rtirq script have any effect on the generic kernel?
<len-dt> It seems to.
<len-dt> ailo, anyway, restarting (/etc/init.d/rtirq restart) rtirq seems to make a large difference even on the generic upstream kernel.
<len-dt> ailo, for USB audio IFs. I was having problems even with 3.5 low latency in 12.10 and worse with generic, even with -p 256. Now -p 64 is usable for single or double note stuff.
<len-dt> ailo, I have not had time to test a midi IF yet.
<len-dt> I need to retest with low latency on the usb audio IF first then I will move on to midi testing.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-29
<len-dt> ailo, I think maybe I was dreaming. The rtirq script doesn't care if the IF is plugged in or not, It raises all the usb irq up in priority.
<len-dt> It also apears that the new kernel (3.5) is ok too, the only reason it seemed worse is that it was running on an external USB drive.
<len-dt> with the external drive plugged in my precise install is not as good either.
<ailo> len-dt: The rtirq should not do anything with -generic, unless you provide it with the "threadirqs" boot parameter
<ailo> In -lowlatency it is builtint
<ailo> builtin*
<ailo> len-dt: To see what the prios are do: ps -eo comm,rtprio
<ailo> len-dt: To add threadirqs as a boot parameter, make sure this line reads:
<ailo> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="threadirqs"
<ailo> Ah, sorry..
<ailo> In the file /etc/default/grub that is
<ailo> len-dt: Normally, the rtirq script has no effect for me at all
<ailo> At one time, it was making things worse. I haven't been able to reproduce, but then, I haven't spent any time investigating
<ailo> Never has it made things better
<ailo> It will only improve things if you are having problems with priorities
<len-dt> ailo, unfortunately, it can't tell the difference between a USB audio IF and a USB mass storage device.
<len-dt> Even worse, the mass storage device is USB 2.0 and the audio IF is USB 1.1
<len-dt> rtirq leaves the USB irqs in the order they are in and normally the USB 2 irq is already higher priority.
<len-dt> On my desktop it is for sure.
<len-dt> ailo, I wonder if I can order the usb irqs in the rtirq.config filels
<len-dt> *file
<ailo> len-dt: You can create your own custom setup
<len-dt> ailo, right now the rtirq order is "firewire snd usb i8042". In cases where the USB audio IF is being used, maybe USB should be ahead of snd. The way it is now, puts my internal sound IF at a higher priority than my USB IF and yet the external has the good pre.
<ailo> len-dt: Not sure how, but I think in /etc/default/rtirq
<len-dt> ailo, can I do usb3 usb4 usb1?
<ailo> No idea :P
<ailo> I've never edited the config myself
<len-dt> ailo, I'll try
<astraljava> len-dt: The situation is way less than optimal, yes. I'm quite doubtful of our future at the moment, we're having quite large problems that need to be resolved fairly quickly.
<len-dt> I had to look for what you were answering astraljava ... ok
<len-dt> what do we need?
<len-dt> ailo, I was able to put USB3 before the rest.
<astraljava> len-dt: We need to evaluate what we want to achieve during this cycle, we need to come up with a working process in which we track our progress, we need to have some vision about where we want to develop as a flavor, and we need more committed people. :)
<len-dt> ailo, I just did usb3 usb
<len-dt> astraljava, Ya, need but don't really have.
<ailo> astraljava: In what way has this changed from before?
<astraljava> Good question.
<astraljava> One that I can't answer right now.
<len-dt> astraljava, ailo in many ways it is not that different, Scott had a computer with IRC running all the time, but had about the same amount of time to input.
<len-dt> I think we should fix anything broken, menu, theme, plymouth.
<ailo> astraljava: What is your main concern? XFCE?
<astraljava> But the fact remains that this is the gravest situation the project has been in since early '06 that I've been watching. We're not going anywhere.
<len-dt> I think we should finish the stuff started with the kernel by making it's improvements available to the users apps
<astraljava> ailo: My main concern is the lack of vision and guidance.
<ailo> I don't fully agree
<ailo> I mean, it hasn't been full throttle at any point during the time I've been around
<astraljava> Well okay, maybe there is something there in the background, but even if there were, nothing gets implemented.
<ailo> I think we have a good chance of getting some really good work done for next release
<ailo> Me and len will make sure of a part of that. With testing and documentation
<astraljava> Those are really good things.
<ailo> As for XFCE, I have no clue
<len-dt> ailo, is the web page up yet?
<astraljava> Xfce is not a big issue. Our direct upstream (Xubuntu) will handle that.
<ailo> astraljava: In that case, I think the situation is pretty mellow
<astraljava> Also, the maintenance of kernel will be there, no worries.
<ailo> I'm a little concerned with -lowlatency for precise though
<ailo> It seems we are stuck maintaining that
<ailo> But that shouldn't be too much of a problem, with a little help from someone
<astraljava> I will try to move that forward next week, I have a pretty big deadline this weekend I cannot ignore. After that I will have more time for *buntu matters.
<ailo> The main concern I've always had was having a functional system for multimedia
<ailo> Not until precise do we have a good kernel, since 9.04
<ailo> Just that detail makes a huge difference
<ailo> I don't think the OS really needs a lot to be good
<ailo> And there is vision. Only, is it too ambitious?
<ailo> When dealing with user support, I find most people just need help with basics, and also, getting realtime privilege
<ailo> It would help a lot if we could give users an easy way to administer some things, like realtime privilege with a tool like -controls
<astraljava> ailo: What is the vision in your opinion? How do you see the team committed to it?
<ailo> Last year or so, there has been a lot of talk about workflows. 
<astraljava> And lastly, what is the team? How many active contributors do we have? Are enough of the fields covered?
<len-dt> From the activity here we have three
<len-dt> Maybe five
<ailo> astraljava: We need to be better at inviting people to join the project
<len-dt> ailo, astraljava I think one of the problems may be the SW we don't ship
<ailo> That is one thing I felt was a bit lacking in the past
<ailo> Also, documentation has been a big problem
<ailo> I think those areas should be solveable this year
<ailo> len-dt: We can't ship SW that isn't in the repo
<len-dt> some of the sw that has non-ubuntuish licencing 
<len-dt> Ya, but we can make it easier to install
<ailo> len-dt: Point taken
<ailo> The website should have info on things like that
<len-dt> It would be nice to have an installer like software center but with what people need.
<ailo> It should really be a portal to all the best in linux audio
<len-dt> Ya. that is what I mena
<len-dt> *mean
<ailo> We were talking about a PPA
<astraljava> ailo: Good points, again. The team needs new contributors, ones with enthusiasm and drive. The whole project lacks drive. Maybe that was the word I should have used at first. :)
<ailo> I think both me and len are pretty well equipped with drive, only things do move a bit slowly
<len-dt> astraljava, part of the problem is getting a fix in. I can fix the menu... but I can't put it in. Last cycle I had to do it twice in two different packages
<len-dt> Because it took weeks to add it.
<astraljava> len-dt: That is again why I was asking questions about the team. We're ill-equipped in many fields.
<ailo> astraljava: Perhaps len should just be allowed to make changes directly?
<len-dt> astraljava, I found it annoying to "save up" fixes to do them all at once. My personal feeling is that the fixes should be put in as they are done.
<len-dt> It allows more time for fixing them if they don't work right.
<astraljava> len-dt: Are you not in the ubuntustudio-dev team on LP?
<ailo> I am not either
<astraljava> meh...
<len-dt> I don't thnk so.
<astraljava> Well, this here now comes to the lack of guidance I referred to.
<ailo> I asked to join more than a year ago, but was denied
<ailo> So I haven't asked again
<astraljava> Ok.
<ailo> But, I was recently allowed to edit the stagin site, so..
<ailo> I'm an indirect member of the dev team, whatever that means
<astraljava> Sadly I need to get to work, soon, so I'll put my thoughts real quick now: We have to put down the things we want to achieve, for this cycle and preferably for the next one (at least). We need to make sure we can commit to getting them done. We need to come up with a working government. And finally we need momentum.
<ailo> As long as we don'
<ailo> don't take too big bites
<astraljava> I'd like to see your thoughts about these in the backlog when I am online again later today. Hopefully we can move things (and the project) forward, starting from this weekend.
<astraljava> ailo: That's why I said we need the commitment to those things.
<astraljava> Alright, catch up with you guys later.
<len-dt> astraljava, later.
<ailo> astraljava: Yeah, later
<ailo> My main interests, and what I also think are achievable are: 1. documentation 2. New Website published 3. System tuning, testing and docs 4. -controls to administer at least user realtime privilege and a couple of other things
<ailo> 1. Documentation is half done on the user side
<ailo> We still need to have some dev docs
<ailo> Also, the website is mostly publishable as is
<len-dt> My opinion is the web site should have gone up two weeks ago.
<len-dt> As a user I would expect it to be a work in progress all the time.
<ailo> System tuning, testing and docs is a bit time consuming, but if we find important things (like high res timer for midi), we should really think about adding them
<ailo> -controls is not that hard to code. But it will take at least a week for me to get a functional package working
<ailo> I'm really busy right now, I have to say
<ailo> The closer we get to August, the more time I will have
<len-dt> ailo, I have found some things that work and some that don't
<ailo> During second half of July, I will have a lot of time, probably
<len-dt> August will be my free time work wise, but I will have two kids to do stuff with.
<ailo> len-dt: And I'm looking forward to going through all of that with you, so we can put up docs, and standardize testing somewhat. To get clear results
<len-dt> Some of the guys on LAU seem to have some tests they use.
<ailo> All of the need to be gathered in writing, so it can be read and reviewed, along with posted testing results
<len-dt> I would love to have a 64 bit machine... not for the new toy, but just so I could test ISOs
<len-dt> But we found out a few weeks ago that a loan we thought we had paid off 10 years ago was in two parts and we had only done one part :P
<len-dt> So no new toys right now. Still, I have both audio and MIDI USB IFs now.
<len-dt> ailo, I think the mode switch is worth while. It is all script and can be added as part of the settings pkg if needed.
<ailo> len-dt: I think it's too early to say what should be done or not. We need to put things in writing first. You need to be able to read about it and understand why you would need it
<len-dt> ailo, documenting is not my strong side. Like test results or setting up tests. 
<len-dt> I am willing though
<len-dt> I think the workflow thing is the right direction
<len-dt> start there and then go "what is stopping me from working well"
<len-dt> I think starting from talent in and going to art out and defining the steps to get there.
<len-dt> ailo, I think there are three parts to workflows (I'll change that number as I go)
<ailo> workflows are great, but there are only two ways to guide the users on that basis. One is documentation: explaining what you would use to do this or that. The other is applications that abstract some of the work for you
<ailo> If no one is doing documentation, or applications to develop the idea of workflows, nothing is happening on that front
<len-dt> There has to be documentation. Either text or video
<ailo> I like the idea of a panel
<ailo> One thing that the user can never hide from, is having to learn how to use tools for specific tasks
<ailo> Doesn't matter who you are, or what your workflow is
<len-dt> Yup
<ailo> So, I think what the user really needs is easy info
<ailo> Categorized in a smart way
<ailo> A panel contains information, as well as the ability to contorl applications
<ailo> I think for that idea to take off, you really need to put a lot of time into it
<len-dt> ailo, so this is an advanced panel? something more than a dock?
<ailo> That is what I have had in mind all along. But I haven't tried creating one. Don't have the time. Also, it seems like there are more important tasks at hand right now
<len-dt> ailo, that is why I tried making one... not so that mine would be the final product but so that we could try different things.
<len-dt> The major comment I got was that the theme was wrong :-)   I was just worried about function.
<ailo> Well, it's also a big project I think. I like the idea, but there's a lot to consider. Like what to use for it. dbus I suppose
<ailo> And maybe ladish and whatnot
<ailo> And how to use it
<ailo> Maybe as a set of plugins
<ailo> I would be happy to start by creating a simple system config program, like -controls, to do some things. and then add to it. Perhaps let the panel be a part of it
<ailo> And all lended technology could be implemented in a plugin sort of fashion
<len-dt> ailo, I think for this cycle, docs, fixes, and continue the kernel transition with system settings.
<ailo> Yeah
<ailo> It's more than enough work :P
<len-dt> ailo, Ya, think in terms of two or three people for now.
<len-dt> ailo, I think even a rough version of a mode switch would be good for testing. -controls would work well too. Is it easy to make changes on?
<astraljava> Good conversation.
<astraljava> len-dt: I wouldn't be worried about UI right now. We're in the middle of LTS releases right now. This is our playground, now is the time to go wild and experiment.
<len-dt> astraljava, Yes, but it needs more than just me to try it.
<len-dt> I can put screen shots up, but that doesn't really say anything.
<astraljava> ailo: You are spot on; without documents or supporting applications, or development on those, we got nothing. The DE and the kernel are important, but the former comes from elsewhere, and the latter is mostly taken care of elsewhere as well (minus testing and "developing").
<astraljava> len-dt: True.
<len-dt> We need someone with more experience than me for testing these things.
<len-dt> I can test that it does what it is expected to do.
<len-dt> But I can't often tell if "what it is expected to do" is worth while.
<ailo> As for me and len-dt, I believe we have our work cut out for us for next release. There are blueprints, and clear goals
<ailo> So, in that respect, we know where we are headed
<ailo> It's just a matter of getting things done
 * len-dt has to go to sleep, he works better with 6 hours of sleep.
<len-dt> ailo, I think I/we should set up a ppa to put settings packages in to test.
<len-dt> So we can "install" a setting test it and document it.
<ailo> len-dt: I can do that ardoun next weekend. These coming days will be wild for me
<ailo> I'm also putting up kernels
<len-dt> If it is an installed test, it is more likely to be consistent.
<len-dt> Ok, good night all.
<ailo> astraljava: If we were to post on such lists as LAD to try find developers, I do think we need to have a clear statement with what we need and where we are going. Preferably also a clear hierarchy - or responsibility areas
<ailo> If I were to critisize Scott for something, then it is to do too much himself, and not gladly give away responsibility
<ailo> But for him to feel doing that is successful, people do need to get things done too
<ailo> I mean, he tends to put too much on himself
<ailo> A member of the team doesn't need to share an equal percentage of the workload. Just be responsible of his/hers responisibility area
<astraljava> ailo: Good that it sounds like you see this from the same perspective. :)
<astraljava> I'm a little afraid to recruit, when I don't know what I'm marketing, really.
<ailo> astraljava: It's also difficult to manage expanding the team if there isn't clear structure and planning in every area. This is hard to achieve though. 
<ailo> I am lead of documentation, and prefer to be notified on all concerning docs
<ailo> I would think len-dt would like to be in on anything concerning testing
<astraljava> It's not, really. It needs the governing virtual team and regular meetings.
<ailo> As long as everyone isn't trying to do everything
<ailo> Which easily ends up in noone doing nothing
<astraljava> Yep.
<astraljava> len-dt: ailo: holstein: knome: You guys are mentioned on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamStructure
<astraljava> We need to meet, quick. Post times when you're most available. If we cannot agree on a DateTime soon, I'll create a doodle poll or similar.
<astraljava> Considering there's not that many of us, I figure we can do it on here.
<astraljava> I'll start; any day, best availability from 1500 UTC till 2100 UTC.
<ailo> astraljava: I edited that page some time ago. I tried putting up people in positions that seemed logical
<ailo> However, knome is probably not a US team member?
<ailo> astraljava: Those times work for me as well
<ailo> I mean, he can be if he wants to of course. Just that I was asking about it before, and seemed like none of the Xubuntu people were team members. Everyone are of course welcome to participate anyway, AFAIAC
<astraljava> ailo: I don't know currently what the team is, or it consists of.
<astraljava> It's a good place to start from, that page. If one wishes to get removed from it, he may voice it now. :)
<knome> astraljava, ailo; i'm generally interested how US does, since it's beneficial for xubuntu if another derivative uses xfce too, since we can for some part share resources
<knome> astraljava, pretty much any day/evening time works for me, though not on this weekend or next thursday. the rest i can just organize to work
<astraljava> knome: Thanks, ACK.
<knome> :)
<ailo> astraljava: I think it would be good if we focused on the blueprint format as the starting point https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-quantal-flavor-ubuntustudio
<ailo> I just realized I better update it with relevant info on my own part, which I just did
<ailo> You're welcome to chime in and add yourself to work items. I'm doing docs as far as it is relevant to me. But there are other fields which are basically only done by Scott
<ailo> astraljava: What workflows are concerned, please have a look at the feature tour in the staging site https://staging.ubuntustudio.org/tour/
<ailo> New workflow for this release is publishing
<ailo> So, we need to look at seeding and menu categories for that
<ailo> astraljava: I think before the meeting, it would be good if you had a look at the blueprints https://staging.ubuntustudio.org/, the staging site https://staging.ubuntustudio.org/, and the current community wiki https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio. 
<ailo> As for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio, any ideas are welcome on how to improve development documentation
<ailo> I will be doing that next
<astraljava> I just did a little. It's horribly, horribly outdated.
<ailo> Not only that. It doesn't really help us much with the format it has
<ailo> We need to have clear areas of development, and methods for working as well as documenting results
<ailo> And docs on what we need to know, or what new devs need to learn
<ailo> Actually, docs for new devs might be the best place to start
<ailo> And there should be some kind of procedure to be accepted as a dev
<astraljava> So why is that website not live?
<ailo> scott-work: Hey. What is it that you feel is lacking from the staging website currently, which needs to be taken care of before publishing it?
<holstein> support team!
<ailo> holstein: Your it!
<holstein> :)
<knome> if you want progress on the website, i can file an RT ticket to get it out.
<holstein> id like to put out what we have
<knome> others agree?
<scott-work> ailo: i don't think there is anything that is really preventing us from getting it released, you really did an outstanding job adding to it
<scott-work> anything else to be added can be done later i believe
<scott-work> knome: i agree
<knome> ticket created
<knome> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=20009
<ailo> It's almost cheap champagne time :P
<knome> it should be live in about a week max, i suppose
<ailo> knome: So, how does it work later? Do we always make changes to the staging site, and get it published with a rt ticket?
<knome> ailo, no. you'll just login at ubuntustudio.org/wp-admin and the changes are live immediately
<ailo> That's wonderful :)
<knome> isn't it :)
 * knome hopes there isn't any regressions on going live
<holstein> yeah... thats the deal!
<holstein> we can change what we need as we go
<scott-work> i am sorry i have been so removed from ubuntu studio development over the past months
<scott-work> i thought things would sort out at work and i would have more time but it hasn't worked that way
<scott-work> i expect to remain minimally involved for a few months coming as well
<scott-work> i also have a chance to work on some creative projects that i have desired for a few years and i would deeply regret delaying these if they were not available when i was ready for them
<len-dt> knome, +1 to publish website a week ago...
<knome> len-dt, the ticket is filed already :)
<scott-work> so i'll be sending an email to the mailing list about minimizing my involvement for a while and soliciting others to accept some of the daily/weekly responsibilities
<scott-work> i still feel very strongly about ubuntu studio development and i still have a plan through the next LTS
<scott-work> i will also be posting this weekend about that as well to outline it
 * len-dt wishes to thank holstein for all the support he does.
<scott-work> i expect the bulk of the creative projects to require the next three or four months and i believe that i'll be holistically involved again with ubuntu studio, which is roughly right before or right after this release
<ailo> scott-work: I think we have a good idea of what you want to accomplish in many areas, and I will do my best to keep working within those lines. 
<len-dt> scott-work, understood. Some of us need acces so we can at least make fixes.
<ailo> scott-work: Not sure if I'm an Ubuntu Studio developer, but it would be nice to be added
<ailo> scott-work: Also, len-dt might be useful having that responsibility too
<ailo> Given that we use the responsibility with care and caution
<ailo> Which I am certain we will
<ailo> I started outlining some sort of dev docs https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperDocumentation
<ailo> scott-work: len-dt: astraljava: holstein: Do tell me if that sounds like what we are after
<ailo> Or if not..
<ailo> I would need help adding to the Ubuntu Studio developer tasks
<ailo> I will create pages for each
<ailo> hmm, scott-work: you were wanting to create a new way of testing, right?
<scott-work> hehe, you guys are awesome!
<scott-work> ailo: well, i intended to document some processes just to help others get involved
<scott-work> but also brainstorming minimums to check for quality (e.g. does jack start with rt)
<scott-work> holstein and astraljava and micahg are awesome too :)
<ailo> I was more thinking about that automated testing thing you were talking about
 * len-dt is off to work
<scott-work> oh, yes!  there is that too
<scott-work> i saw some cool things about that at uds
<ailo> That would be one of those current goals, to put that into use
<scott-work> by len-dt 
<scott-work> ailo: absolutely
<scott-work> just to note: i have two main goals for my work during the next few months; creative desire and money
<scott-work> i want to create a few things but i also want to explore monetizing 
<scott-work> which leads me to one of the long range plans for ubuntu studio;  can it be monetized for those who work with it?
<scott-work> i think so and towards the next LTS i had wanted to see if a new audience couldn't be schools (all ages) or non-major-label studios?
<ailo> I see. Well, that sounds like a plan a bit further ahead. Something that we perhaps aren't in a hurry to decide about. Sounds intriging
<scott-work> my thought is that one could get paid to install audio recording systems in schools or studios
<scott-work> AND maintenance contracts could exist in the same locations
<ailo> Who would do this? Anyone who wanted to?
<scott-work> aye
<ailo> And US devs provide support?
<scott-work> technically, anyone could
<scott-work> but it might be hard to get a contract with a school just being a guy off the street with no affiliation
<ailo> I can't say I'm really too interested in anything that deals with economy on this project, but I'm sure it could be easier getting experienced devs to help with US, if they had a chance to get paid for it too
<ailo> Just that, how big is that market :P
<scott-work> there is a fairly good movement in the US to move towards open source software and with an economic recession, things are changing
<scott-work> but i don't know specifics about the market
<scott-work> it will be difficult, but a well polished presentation and demonstration might help 
<scott-work> getting the first one will give the whole thing a sense of legitimacy as well
<ailo> I think the main problem is probably installation. The rest is not supposed to be
<ailo> Getting the OS to work with specific hardware
<ailo> And just the pain of doing it, if you don't know anything about Linux
<scott-work> but that's a year in the future or so to really start brainstorming and making sure things are set up properly
<ailo> It would be cool if it happened
<scott-work> incidentally, as i learn more about films, i think some groups would be willing to spend a decent amount of money to buy a ubuntu studio derivative specific to making films
<scott-work> there is a whole movement to using DSLR cameras and doing things on the cheap
<scott-work> anyways, got to go back to work
<knome> this all sounds great, but you really need to get the basics right first :)
<ailo> I don't think there's anything wrong with pursuing that in the greater perspective, but I agree. We have more basic tasks at hand right now
<ailo> scott-work: I guess I am a member of the ubuntustudio-dev team, since being in the website team makes me an indirect member. There's no button for joining anyway
<ailo> Or do one need to be invited?
<ailo> does*
<scott-work> knome:  considering other audiences and what needs to be done is easily over a year away, maybe more
<scott-work> ailo: i agree about more important concerns at the moment, i was just mentioning some of these ideas
<scott-work> partly because i am starting something long term that i hope will help me perhaps transition from the job i currently have into something that centers around artsy-fartsty stuff like music, video, books, and linux
<scott-work> ailo: as for access to the code, i need to look into that and see who has what permissions
<scott-work> here's an interesting thought....
<scott-work> what if a linux system looked like this: https://tails.boum.org/doc/first_steps/startup_options/windows_camouflage/index.en.html
<scott-work> but offered all the audio goodness that ubuntu studio (et el) can offer
<scott-work> i wonder if this would be more acceptable to a larger audience and more people would be willing to use it
<len-dt> ailo, Just so you know, I was able to use rtirq to improve my USB audio performance even with the usb 2.0 mas storage plugged in.
<ailo> len-dt: cool
<ailo> len-dt: Would you mind writing down what settings and why the performance improved?
<len-dt> ailo, I also found it made a difference which USB socket I used.
<ailo> Aha
<ailo> I mean, what config you used, and how that helped, etc..
<len-dt> ailo, IRQ sharing for one
<len-dt> ailo, where would you like me to put it?
<ailo> len-dt: You could just post it on the dev mail list if you like
<len-dt> ailo, great, will do.
<ailo> len-dt: I guess we should try to make use of the mail list more often. Easy way to store info and maybe others will read about it and comment as well
<ailo> We could even post to the mail list automatically when doing automated test later
<ailo> I have an automated mail setup on this computer to send issue reports for some projects. Using msmtp
<ailo> It's a commandline tool for sending emails. Pretty handy when wanting to send automated emails
<len-dt> could do.
<knome> ailo, please rethink flooding the -devel mailing list
<knome> ailo, maybe create another one for -bugs or so
<len-dt> :)
<ailo> knome: Well, how do we do that?
<knome> same with launchpad - i'd really love if the ubuntustudio-devel team wasn't subscribed to all bugs, but ubuntustudio-bugs
<knome> ailo, i suppose create an rt ticket ;)
<knome> ailo, rt.ubuntu.com
<ailo> knome: hmm, I don't seem to have permission
<knome> ailo, login with ubuntu SSO
<knome> ailo, you should.
<ailo> knome: I had some weird problem. Had a login screen where to input info. But I do seem to be logged in now
<knome> ailo, yes, there's a login screen, but in that, there's a ubuntu sso button too :)
<ailo> knome: I did use the sso button, but was still redirected to a page where to fill in details..
<knome> ailo, weird. :)
<knome> i'll be around a bit if you need help with filing the ticket
<ailo> knome: Thanks. I'm looking around a bit first
<knome> ailo, mmhm. basically, requestors is a list of email addresses. after that, you only need to add subject and a description.
<ailo> knome: Queue? Lists?
<ailo> knome: So I add my email adress as requestor? And explain what I need?
<knome> yes
<knome> and yeah, i suppose queue can be lists
<knome> i looked at another ticket for creating a list, you basically need to just name the list and tell why you want it
<ailo> ok. I'm requesting to establish a new list called ubuntustudio-testing, then
<knome> ailo, thinking about lists technically too, you probably need to mention them who should be the list admin, if not you
<knome> ailo, if you want, you can add me to the cc field and i can follow the progress
<knome> oh, created :)
<knome> i'll star it
<ailo> I can be the admin, np
<knome> hehe, yeah :)
<knome> ok, i'm off
<knome> see you later
<ailo> knome: later
<len-dt> astraljava, meeting times for me are weekdays 2230 UTC till 0600utc or so. On Saturday, 1500utc till 2200utc on and off (I have other things to do during that time too)
<len-dt> astraljava, please note these are daylight savings hours when I am -8hrs. In the winter I am -9
<len-dt> so those hours are good for this cycle. The sunday time worked good for me in the winter, but is too late for me now.
<ailo> len-dt: We are about, I think +2,+3 right now, so when it's evening for you guys, we're sleeping. So, generally, your earliest time, and our latest time make some kind of a boundary
<ailo> 2230 on weekdays may be a bit late, but Saturday from 1500-2200 sounds pretty good
<len-dt> ailo, Ya, I have noticed :-)  I normally have about 5 minutes in the morning while eating before work. I read the backlog and maybe comment one or two things.
<len-dt> after work I sometimes write two or three pages with the hopes someone will see it when they get up...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-30
<Len-nb> ailo, recorded some midi with qtracktor from USB midi in. Played back on qsynth ok... back out to HW synth was icky. Noticeably worse with qsynth loaded (but not playing) than without.
<ailo> Len-nb: Would be cool if some settings could improve that
<Len-nb> ailo, I'm looking...
<ailo> I'm thinking about the high res timer thing
<ailo> I guess the only HW that works with jack midi is firewire devices
<ailo> I mean, withouth any alsa at all
<Len-nb> I'll have to try on the ensoniq
<Len-nb> It has seemed pretty solid so far.
<ailo> Len-nb: Nice work on the email. Clears things up pretty well
<Len-nb> ailo, ya, but it shows how even on newer machines, it is not quite plug and play
<Len-nb> I'm thinking the script as it sits can break things as easy as fix.
<Len-nb> So far, having the internal sound after USB3 doesn't seem to have hurt it. I have been using it at -p 1024 though
 * Len-nb was testing midi not audio at the time
<Len-nb> good night
<ailo> len-dt: And anyone else interested. I've uploaded the quantal version of qjackctl to ppa:ailo.at/backports, for testing
<ailo> I'm requesting a backport for it soon to Precise
<ailo> Oh, the PPA is for precise
<ailo> Well, no need to
<ailo> I did the backport request
<ailo> Now, let's see about kernel uploads
<astraljava> +1
<ailo> This time I seem to be uploading the entire kernel, not just the changes
<ailo> Takes a while to upload 800MB with 1 Mbit bandwidth :(
<len-dt> ailo, does that mean the new qjackctl will show up in the normal places then?
<len-dt> but the kernels are something different...
<holstein> ailo: what did i miss yesterdy?
<holstein> did you put a wiki together?
<holstein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperDocumentation
<holstein> what i can understand there looks good
<astraljava> holstein: Hi! How's your availability for meetings? Days of week, times of day?
<holstein> astraljava: spotty.. and really unreliable til fall id say :/
<len-dt> all: I did some fixes to the menu. I havn't looked at the Settings menu yet but here is a screen shot of the Media playback and Audio Production menus:
<len-dt> http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/menu.html
<len-dt> Please use refresh if you have looked at this page before.
 * len-dt has used this page for showing menus before
<len-dt> holstein, ailo astraljava ^^
<astraljava> len-dt: Cool! Hold on to those, we'll get you the upload rights eventually. :D
<len-dt> astraljava, no problem, still some more to do.
<ailo> knome: One thing that I would like to see in Xubuntu is whatever makes ssh easier to work with
<ailo> ssh-agent, etc
<ailo> Right now one needs to use ssh -i <idfile> manually. Would be nice if it was like on Ubuntu, where it is looked up automatically.
<ailo> And that the password for the key is stored for the session
<ailo> On Debian Wheezy you can even have it stored permanently 
<astraljava> ailo: What do you need ssh -i for? I installed keychain for ssh management, it works pretty nicely. At the beginning of a session (after boot) it asks me the passphrase, and after that I only have to provide the password to the server that requires it. If the servers I connect to is set to use the key, it won't ask a thing.
<ailo> astraljava: Ok, but I don't think that's how Ubuntu does it. No matter, if it works I'll use it
<ailo> hmm, that's pretty nice tho
<astraljava> ailo: No, that's not what vanilla does. But I don't think Xubuntu should do things imitating vanilla either.
<astraljava> But then again, I do have slight allergy towards GNOME these days. :D
<len-dt> astraljava, Are there things I need to have before I would be able to upload to the US area? This is my page:https://launchpad.net/~len-ovenwerks 
<astraljava> len-dt: No, as long as you have your ssh and gpg key on LP, and you're in the proper team, you're all set.
<astraljava> The thing is, ATM, I cannot give you the rights. Which is another of those admin probs I've been talking about...
<len-dt> gpg or pgp?
<len-dt> I am not worried about who or when just now, just to be prepared.
<astraljava> drwx------   3 jaska jaska   4096 Jun 24 02:49 .gnupg
<astraljava> Whatever is in there. :D
<astraljava> OpenPGP keys:
<astraljava> ...from LP. ^^
<len-dt> ls: cannot access .gnupg: No such file or directory
<astraljava> I believe from the bzr POV, the SSH key is the important one.
<len-dt> I guess I need to get that done then
<len-dt> The ssh I have done.
<astraljava> I think that's enough for pushing to branches, then.
<astraljava> It's been so long since I set all those up, I can't possibly remember them. :)
<len-dt> I am just starting.
<astraljava> I'm glad you are.
<len-dt> US seems to be somewhat "peoplebare"
<astraljava> Cannot decypher, sorry.
<len-dt> Ustudio seems to be bare of people... As in could use more people
<astraljava> Oh... hahaha!
<astraljava> I think there was maybe a period of 20 days when the project couldn't have used more contributors it has ever had. :)
<len-dt> astraljava, when I use gpg to create a finger print, can I only use it from the computer it was created on or can I copy from one to the other? Same with the ssh keys I guess.
<len-dt> I use two computers a lot.
<astraljava> len-dt: You can of course copy it to other machines as well. I have it on the shell provider account where I have all *buntu-related emails, for instance, and copy it to all local installations from there.
<len-dt> Ok, I will create it here then and copy to the other one as well.
<astraljava> Yep, that'll work. Just remember to install the necessary binaries, too.
<len-dt> Both are Ubuntu studio 12.04 right now, so if this has it the other does too.
<astraljava> I don't believe it's there by default.
<len-dt> gpg is there
<astraljava> Ok.
<len-dt> That didn't do anything for me. It created .gnupg and it's files, but did not give me the number.
<astraljava> No, you have to export the env variable.
<len-dt> The ubuntu page says to: gpg --fingerprint
<astraljava> Err... sorry, I'm a little out of my head now. What were you trying to achieve?
<len-dt> I think I am trying to generate a key (or pair)
<len-dt> I think the instructions on the web site assume that has already been done
<astraljava> If you have copied that, then you don't need to generate anything. For appropriate apps, you just need to set the ID for the key.
<ailo> len-dt: Did you follow this? https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/ImportingYourPGPKey
<len-dt> ailo, The program they say to use there I don't have, On my LP home page there is a spot to add my openpgp key it has a pop up box
<len-dt> I was using that it has instructions for both the same app as the link you gave as well as the CLI tool I do have.
<len-dt> But the instructions for the CLI tool look wrong
<len-dt> Or just expect I have already done something else :-)
<ailo> len-dt: It's called something else on XFCE
<ailo> I'm not on it right now
<ailo> It's a key and password manager anyhow
<ailo> Probably easiest to administer the key using that program
<len-dt> The closest I could find was users and groups, but there is nothing there that makes sense.
<ailo> len-dt: That's not the one
<ailo> It's a password and key manager
<len-dt> ailo,  that was my thought
<ailo> You'll see your ssh key there as well
<ailo> Let me reboot and check..
<astraljava> len-dt: Right, if you need it for the LP page, you can indeed use `gpg --fingerpring <keyID>`
<astraljava> But you need to have it uploaded first.
<len-dt> Ahh I need a keyid
<astraljava> astraljava@lakka:~$ gpg --fingerprint D9C94FE0
<astraljava> pub   1024D/D9C94FE0 2010-07-20
<astraljava>       Key fingerprint = 38A6 DC3F 9751 84D4 74C5  193F C607 07D0 D9C9 4FE0
<astraljava> uid                  Janne Jokitalo (astraljava) <astraljava@kapsi.fi>
<len-dt> Ahh, I have to use --gen-key
<astraljava> Ooh, sorry, I didn't realize you didn't have it in the first place. Sorry about that.
<len-dt> I should use RSA or DSA?
<ailo> len-dt: Settings -> Password and Keys
<astraljava> Nooo... don't listen to him, do it the Right Wayâ¢, on CLI. :D
<len-dt> Is missing opn this machine... ubuntustudio?
<len-dt> 2048 ok for keysize?
<ailo> len-dt: Ok. I don't know if I installed it separately. It's called seahorse
<astraljava> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<astraljava> Yeah, seahorse isn't there by default.
<astraljava> That why I installed keychain, I think seahorse brings a lot of cruft with it, but might recall wrong.
<len-dt> Ok, I think I have managed with the CLI
<astraljava> Great!
<ailo> I hate having to remember so much stuff. I try making scripts for a lot of procedures
<astraljava> Oh well, you really only need to do it once, if you remember to copy it elsewhere (safe).
 * astraljava goes to sleep
<astraljava> G'night folks.
<ailo> GN astraljava 
<len-dt> GN
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-01
<micahg> ailo: you actually did the testing for Bug #1019537?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1019537 in Precise Backports "Please backport qjackctl 0.3.9-2 (universe) from quantal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019537
<ailo> micahg: I did, yes
<micahg> ailo: ok, I'll upload it then, thanks
<ailo> micahg: Great!
<micahg> ailo: is Bug #956438 something that should be fixed for 12.04.1?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956438 in jackd2 (Ubuntu) "qjackctl unable to stop jackd2" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956438
<micahg> rather, is it something that US devs should commit to for 12.04.1
<ailo_> micahg: I believe jack devs are aware of that bug, which is why qjackctl got its' panic button
<ailo_> Don't think we can fix it ourselves, however, if a newer jack will solve it, and it appears soon in the development release, we could see about backporting that as well
<ailo_> It's a bit annoying having that kind of a bug on a LTS release
<micahg> ailo_: a backport won't be on 12.04.1 though
<micahg> I backported qjackctl for the new feature :)
<micahg> bugs should really be fixed as SRUs though
<ailo_> micahg: Oh, ok. I guess I should look at how to SRU then. But qjackctl will be updated on installs won't it?
<ailo_> I mean, when you do an update, the newer qjackctl will be installed?
<ailo_> backports are enabled by default after all
<ailo_> Not nice to have the bug on a live ISO anyway
<astraljava> micahg: Good point, I'll add that to the agenda as well.
<astraljava> micahg: TheMuso: I'm a little unsure about what to do with the kernel updates. We're still behind mainline on precise, what do I need to do to get that up-to-date?
<len-dt> ailo_, I am thinking we should replace "task manager" with "system monitor"
<len-dt> ailo_, you may remember the fun I had figuring out how much memory an application uses.
<len-dt> System monitor seems to give the numbers that make the most sense
<len-dt> Looking at them side by side.. System monitor offers a lot more. Almost all of our workflows are resource hungry too. So a tool for finding those kinds of problems should be the better one.
<len-dt> System monitor does use more resources, but task manager does no better than top and uses a lot more resources to do that.
<ailo_> len-dt: I prefer system monitor as well
<len-dt> ailo_, we got the task manager as part of xfce
 * len-dt would like a tray applet that shows memory left.
<ailo_> len-dt: I added a couple things to blueprints, misc. 1. to maybe change to system monitor. 2. To have nautilus run the desktop (it's not default for everything right now)
<ailo_> len-dt: Evern heard of sieve? - a mail filtering language
<ailo_> I've been having a lot of fun adding custom filters to my incouming email
<ailo_> Got it with the mail service I use. I quit using gmail, and started paying for the one I have
<micahg> ailo_: no, backports is enabled by default, but you have to select the backport version (you could release note it), but ideally, the bug should be fixed
<len-dt> ailo_, I haven;t used sieve, or any other filter. Nautilus seems to be in the middle of a name change... identity crisis?
<len-dt> ailo_, The executable is still nautilus but the about says "Files" On the 12.10 live ISO.
<len-dt> ailo_, +1 on the suggested changes BTW.
<ailo_> len-dt: Gnome is renaming some apps, but the package name will probably not change
<ailo_> len-dt: Epiphany browser is now called "Web" tec
<len-dt> ailo_, Ya I remember that too. The package name helps upgrades work, though dummy packages work too.
<ailo_> I guess evolution might change to email? :P
<len-dt> falktx, Have you tried jack_control from your jackd package? It doesn't work for me
<len-dt>  jack_control exit
<len-dt>   File "/usr/bin/jack_control", line 327
<len-dt>     configure_iface.ResetParameterValue(['internals', internal_name, param])
<len-dt>                   ^
<len-dt> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
<falktx> len-dt: maybe needs python2?
<len-dt> I am not sure if it is the jackd package or something that has changed in dbus in precise
<len-dt> It used to work before. I have used jack_control a lot because of qjackctl issues.
<falktx> I see
<falktx> need to report this to nedko then
<len-dt> falktx, I didn't want to file a bug at ubuntu because it is not the ubuntu package.
<falktx> len-dt: sure thing, thanks for reporting
<falktx> I'm already speaking with nedko about this
<len-dt> if you need me to test things or report any things about how my system is I can do that.
<len-dt> I do have to go right now though and do some family things (beach)
<falktx> len-dt: I can get the error here, so it's ok (I'll be able to test this myself)
<len-dt> OK
<falktx> I'm pretty sure a fix will be here in a few minutes
<len-dt> Thank you.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-24
<cub> the "link" to G+ Community Page on http://ubuntustudio.org/support/ is not actually a link.
<DarkEra> you mean the community page?
<cub> zequence, are you alone on updating the webpage?
<cub> yes, directly under Social Channels in the main column
<DarkEra> yep, that one seems dead
<cub> <a href"https://plus.google.com/communities/105814407877662644885">Google community page</a>
<cub> missing a =
<cub> zequence, to follow up on your email about "Contributors needed to define our workflows", are there any earlier templates or examples to look at to start out with?
<smartboyhw> Hey DarkEra 
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, zequence OvenWerks et al. We will start our Classroom QA sessions today at 14:00 UTC in #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat.
<smartboyhw> We = Ubuntu QA Team
 * smartboyhw will feature on 1st July.
<DarkEra> hey smartboyhw 
<DarkEra> 14:00 utc... need to convert that to my local time
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, one hour later.
<smartboyhw> Exactly.
<DarkEra> that should be now then?
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, no.
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, you messed up with British Summer Time.
<DarkEra> doh...
<DarkEra> need to go in a few and will be back in a hour or so
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, :)
<DarkEra> last PUVA treatment today... Yay!
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, :)
<DarkEra> ok, gotta go. I'll be back later again ;)
<OvenWerks> cub: we had some very quick work flow defs, but they were:
<OvenWerks> workflow name, apps needed and thats about it.
<smartboyhw> Actually that's 14:30 UTC.
<cub> OvenWerks, as for workflow Desktop then, one use case could be "I need to write a CV"?
<cub> or "I need to set up a homepage at xyz provider"
<OvenWerks> That actually sounds like a good way to go. (whats a "CV"?)
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, ... you really don't know?
<smartboyhw> Sounds like you haven't applied for a job.
<smartboyhw> before:P
<OvenWerks> I would not worry about it being perfect though. editing is always possible.
<smartboyhw> Curriculum Vitae
<cub> yeah perhaps resume is more used outside of Sweden. :D
<OvenWerks> Ah... I have at least heard of that
<OvenWerks> I would have understood resume, yes.
<OvenWerks> I haven't applied for a job in 27 years.
<cub> Hmm without any limitations on workflows we could end up with an infinite amount for the desktop use
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, :O
<smartboyhw> ...
<cub> -workflow + use case
<OvenWerks> I would think that there are any number of use cases that might use the same workflow.
<OvenWerks> So it might be better to name the workflow and list usecases for that workflow.
<cub> yes, but to cover everything a user might want to do..? :D
<OvenWerks> My sister lives in Calgary, I am just seeing some pictures of flood damage to the house I grew up in.
<cub> oh, bad?
<OvenWerks> Mud line is about 3 feet up the outside.
<OvenWerks> the basment is/was full of water, but it looks like the main floor is ok.
<OvenWerks> evac is still in effect
<OvenWerks> cub we are not trying to cover every thing.
<OvenWerks> One hopes the user can take a basic workflow and adapt :)
<cub> that's why I asked, to know what we aim for to begin with..and then develop from there.
<OvenWerks> I'm not very good at figuring these things out. (I make a bad teacher) I tend to over simplify.
<OvenWerks> Best to start with whatever is on your mind and go from there. If it is something you have used personally, that would be good I think.
<zequence> cub: no blueprints really. I think what you want is probably start by making a list of all applications for a workflow (generating it may be done using some apt magic), and then start investigating what we have, what we should have, and what we might not need, etc
<smartboyhw> cub, we have too many blueprints (the blueprint dependency graph faints me)
 * OvenWerks has to go.
<zequence> cub: also, we need to do testing on the applications we include, to make sure they have all promised features (sometimes debian imports have bugs)
<cub> I can hardly read the blueprints
<cub> because they autosizes
<OvenWerks> hover your mouse over anything
<cub> yes but when looking at an overview it's just tiny spheres and the hover doesn't do much. Or it's something strange in my chromium/chrome browsers
<zequence> cub: Yeah, or use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PermanentBlueprintOverview
<zequence> might be incomplete at the moment though (i made that only because of the problems with overviewing at LP)
<zequence> OvenWerks: may I suggest to name your installer "ubuntustudio-installer", and give it a desktop file. If enabling a command line version, just let the gui version be started with an argument like how winetrics: ubuntustudio --gui, which could be the start command on the desktop file
<zequence> ..like how the gui version of winetricks is started, was what I meant to say
<zequence> which is: winetricks --gui
<zequence> also using zenity
<zequence> cub: I suggested to reorganize the blueprints completely, which I'd like to do once I have some time over
<zequence> we dont' really need a lot of Ubuntu project blueprints, and removing those would reduce the amount
<cub> there's that word again "time" :P
<zequence> and not everything needs to depend on each other
<zequence> right now I need to get linux-lowlatency built, which wasn't happening before
<zequence> and then prepare tomorrows linux class
<cub> how do you keep track of everything that needs to be done?
<cub> is it through the blueprints, or some massive offline project management sheet?
<smartboyhw> cub, blueprints.
<cub> must be hard to keep track though, that not something falls in between somewhere and is forgotten
<smartboyhw> zequence, cub, I like trello boards actually:P
<cub> I don't like trello much, but I use them as well. :D
<cub> Kanbanize and Kanbanery too
<cub> I'm mostly curious since being new here I find it quite hard to get a grip on the different processes
<cub> and I work a lot recently to implement Lean thinking at my job so it's a lot of processes and kanban boards around
<cub> and I'm also a Service Manager and Project Manager so I run multiple projects for customer 
<cub> it's so easy to miss out on some small detail that suddenly breaks everything. :P Like "Oh did someone open port 80 to the web fronts?"
<zequence> cub: there's no need for central planning in most cases
<zequence> but, a project lead usually finds himself informed about everything
<zequence> it's actually much better I think, if people can focus on less
<zequence> it's really just about finding something interesting, and starting to work on that
<zequence> what developers should keep track of is changes in sources, which are posted by email if something was changed
<zequence> for sources that they would be concerned about
<zequence> there isn't yet established procedures for everything, and thus, not docs for it
<zequence> the idea is that we use the wiki for documenting stuff like that
<zequence> but, at the same time, it's fairly simple right now
<zequence> the more people we have working, the more gets done
<zequence> the blueprints are not only a way to document what should be done, but also a memory for what could/should be done, if someone's interested in investigating
<cub> I see
<smartboyhw> zequence, question: Do you still have the presentation slide that you used during UDS-R in Oakland for Ubuntu Studio's presentation?
<zequence> smartboyhw: I suspect not :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, damnit...... :P
<smartboyhw> zequence, you need to join in the #ubuntu-classroom chan also.
<zequence> smartboyhw: you booked a class room session, or?
<smartboyhw> zequence, 1st July. ISO testing.
<zequence> ok
<smartboyhw> 13:00 - 15:00 UTC.
<holstein> i like messages like "hey, i noticed the download links are incorrect.. can i help with that in any way?"
<holstein> but, reporting is helpful
<holstein> 11:53 < Paladine> am trying to get a bunch of Linux build to switch their default search engine in their browser to a more  privacy focused solution other than Google
<holstein> this was implied as a reponse to PRISM
<holstein> personally, as i usually say, im with you guys as far as what defaults you ant to go with
<holstein> i dont think switching from google has anything to do with addressing the "PRISM" concern.. since *all* traffic goes through PRISM
<Paladine> well I am the privacy spokesperson for Ixquick and Startpage (same company)
<Paladine> who are based in the Netherlands
<holstein> but, i dont mind having that (responsible) conversation
<Paladine> and are not subject to US law
<Paladine> all traffic doesn't go through PRISM
<Paladine> I am not sure where you got that information
<Paladine> PRISM is the programme the NSA use under FISAAA to gain access to the content of various services
<Paladine> all of those services are based in the US and subject to FISC orders
<Paladine> Tempora in the UK is more serious, they fibre tap over 200 data cables originating and terminating int he UK
<holstein> its splits the optical data connection and collects *all* traffic
<holstein> like a prism
<Paladine> you are incorrect
<holstein> im not the only one then
<Paladine> PRISM is not a physical interception
<Paladine> PRISM is just the name of the program
<holstein> plus, its not google data that is in question. its *all* data
<Paladine> no it is the data of major US service providers
<holstein> anyways.. im not here to debate things i dont know about
<Paladine> and they gain access via FISC orders
<holstein> what i will debate is.. changing from google will do nothing to actually address anything
<Paladine> well actually it will
<holstein> sure
<holstein> and thats what im disagreeing with
<Paladine> since Ixquick and Startpage are not in the US they are not subject to US law and therefore completely immune to PRISM
<holstein> you are not immune to data recording
<holstein> no one would be
<Paladine> they are alsoimmune to Tempora since all their incoming connections are encrypted
<holstein> but, again.. im not going to debate that
<Paladine> I don't want to have a fight but as a globally respect expert on these issues, I have to disagree with you
<Paladine> you misunderstand completely what PRISM is
<holstein> if you want to make a suggestion about switching from google, i'll hear that.. and the team will welcome the suggestion
<holstein> Paladine: i dont need to "understand" to say.. switching from google will do nothing to address the issue
<holstein> the traffic still comes and goes where it is, as of now
<holstein> but, again, you can make the suggestion, and are welcome to do so.. and encouraged
<Paladine> switching from Google to a searchengine in the EU which falls under EU law and is explicitly NOT vulnerable to PRISM or any other programme under US law
<holstein> but, you wont sell me on it being a "fix" for privacy
<Paladine> is a significant improvement for your users' privacy
<holstein> improvment?
<holstein> either its "safe" or its not
<Paladine> it is safe
<Paladine> why are you being so aggressive?
<holstein> im not
<holstein> im being realistic.. and trying my best to keep my opinion from the facts
<Paladine> first let me explain again what PRISM is (it is clearly not what you think)
<holstein> Paladine: i dont think its what you think
<holstein> data is collected..
<holstein> and, its not a debate that we need to hae
<Paladine> PRISM is the NSA programme which through Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and PATRIOT provisions for Business Records under order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court gains access to the systems of some of the worlds largest US based service providerrs
<holstein> have*
<Paladine> will you please listen?
<holstein> you are offering a privacy solution.. and im questioning it
<holstein> Paladine: im listeing, but its not for me
<holstein> Paladine: i dont make the decisions
<holstein> im only stating that i dont think its a solution to the issue
<Paladine> you are not giving me the chance to explain you keep interrupting with your misinterpretation of what PRISM is
<holstein> Paladine: you make the case to zequence, and the team decides.. and i stand behind the decision of the team
<Paladine> as I said, your understanding of what PRISM is is completely erroneous
<holstein> Paladine: but, i will say.. i need to see some facts that state you are getting around this data collection before i "trust" it
<Paladine> you seem to think it is some sort of physical interception programme, it is not
<holstein> Paladine: as i said, my understanding of it is irrelevant
<Paladine> PRISM only imapcts US companies because they are subject to the jurisdiction of FISC - non US companies are NOT subject to FISC orders
<Paladine> the problem is most of the worlds giant tech companies are US companies
<holstein> Paladine: just state the case here, and in the dev mailing list.. its not my decision
<Paladine> which is why PRISM is such an effective intelligence programme
<Paladine> but companies outside the US are immune to PRISM
<Paladine> Ixquick and Startpage are based in the Netherlands, they are certified by Europrise (who in turn are funded by the European Commission)
<holstein> Paladine: and im saying, your data is still being intercepted, though you may be "immune" to US
<Paladine> they were the first company ever to be awarded the Europrise certification
<Paladine> again you are incorrect, PRISM is NOT an intercept programme
<holstein> i never stated it was a program at all
<holstein> but, again.. its not up to me
<Paladine> PRISM is a "Business Records" provision (PATRIOT) access programme
<holstein> state the case, and include the information.. i would start with zequence 
<holstein> he is the team lead.. and as i said.. i stand behind the team's decisions 
<Paladine> well if you would stop interrupting me, maybe I could
<holstein> !volunteers | Paladine 
<ubottu> Paladine: The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<holstein> Paladine: try the mailing list
<Paladine> but you know what, I don't think I will bother, I will just talk to Mark Shuttleworth instead
<holstein> Paladine: sure.. you are welcome, and encouraged to speak to anyone you like
<Paladine> it is bad enough when the government lie to people, it is equally frustrating when members of the public try to tell people know what something does that they are wrong, even when those people are experts in their field
<Paladine> your understanding of PRISM is completely wrong, I urge you to go and actually do the research on what it does, before you start to condemn all solutions on a completely erroneous pretence
<holstein> Paladine: i assure you im not lying.. or saying you are wrong
<Paladine> I never accused you of lying, I said your understanding is false
<holstein> im saying, i dont trust your alternative (personally) to address the issue you are stating that it can
<holstein> Paladine: i understand you are not bound by us law.. but, im saying, you can not guarantee me my traffic to your servers is not being intercepted
<Paladine> they are not my servers
<Paladine> I am a privacy advocate
<holstein> switching to your search provider may not be the answer to the question
<Paladine> I don't work for anyone
<Paladine> all the traffic to their servers is encrypted by default
<holstein> Paladine: the company you are mentioning. that i thought you implied you were representing.. maybe i mis understood
<Paladine> so even if it is intercepted it is useless
<holstein> Paladine: sounds good.. you can include that in the email.. or messages to zequence and/or Mark Shuttleworth
<Paladine> Google use HTTPS too but they can be compelled to hand over the keys or provide access to the data once it is decrypted at their end under FISA
<holstein> and, what would compell the company you mention to hand over the data? and who would they be compelled to hand it over to?
<Paladine> there is no equivelant law to compel them
<holstein> Paladine: i never said "law"
<holstein> anyways.. these are realistic questions/concerns that i think you should expect to hear
<Paladine> nothing would compel them, they entire purpose is to provide private searches, they have invested considerable money to do just that
<holstein> so, money would be compelling?
<Paladine> no
<Paladine> read what I said
<holstein> Paladine: all im saying is.. i dont trust google already.. i dont know you, and i dont trust the company i just heard of either.. that you mentioned
<Paladine> they don't log anything, they provide proxied results, they provide cookieless settings, they are externally audited by the most respected privacy certification org in europe
<holstein> that is all.. its not a big deal.. and im not the person who decides.. its a community
<holstein> Paladine: this is the devel mailing list i was referring to https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-Studio-devel
<holstein> its actually quite active.. though zequence will be in here at some point
<holstein> some folks dont do IRC, which can make it a bit challenging to meet with the entire team in realtime
<Paladine> I presume you take your browser defaults from upstream?
<holstein> Paladine: right now, xubuntu is mostly our "upstream".. though, we can customize
<Paladine> what is the estimated userbase of US nowadays?
<holstein> i know i use is
<Paladine> I haven't used it since about 2008 or something
<holstein> it*
<holstein> i assume the other dev's do.. so at least 6 of us
<zequence> I'm certainly open to the idea of providing another default search than google
<zequence> Paladine: ^
<Paladine> hey
<zequence> We don't have any specific settings for any of the applications we have preinstalled
<zequence> the settings come with the package itself
<Paladine> can I discuss this in PM?
<zequence> rather not :)
<zequence> I don't see it being a private issue anyway
<Paladine> just quieter :)
<Paladine> did you read the info I posted before?
<Paladine> I will summarise
<Paladine> basically the default search in Firefox is Google (for most people)
<Paladine> Google are known to be subject to FISAAA/FISC orders
<Paladine> and PRISM
<Paladine> as are all US based corporations
<Paladine> or any non US based corporation with servers in the US
<Paladine> as a privacy advocate I would like to see more open source solutions providing access to services which are not subject to those laws
<zequence> I actually think this is something that should be discussed more centrally withing Ubuntu and also Debian 
<Paladine> I am currently working with Ixquick/Startpage to try and increase awareness of privacy enhancing technologies
<zequence> The set of search engines can be changed for the firefox package
<Paladine> well I have contacted canonical but it is far more difficult to discuss these things with them than smaller derivatives
<Paladine> given the financial link between mozilla and google
<zequence> as for other browser, not sure how that works. I know "web" defaults to google, while chromium doesn't have all that many options
<zequence> how did you contact canonical?
<zequence> It might be best to discuss on a devel related mail list
<Paladine> I emailed them, actually Mark directly
<zequence> like, ubuntu-devel-discuss
<Paladine> I have spoken to Mark about privacy stuff before so he knows me
<Paladine> but I wouldn't be surprised if there is an agreement in place with Google already
<Paladine> I don't know if there is but I would be surprised if there isnt
<zequence> I think it's more about packaging, and community voice actually
<zequence> in which case, I'd recommend to begin a discussion on ubuntu-devel-discuss
<zequence> this here https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
<zequence> the discussion would also reveal what other problems there may be to consider
<Paladine> and if Canonical decided not to, would you guys still be open to discussion at the US level?
<Paladine> (Ubuntu Studio = US)
<zequence> Sure, but this is something that is best suited to discuss as far "upstream" as possible, really
<Paladine> yeah I am posting to the list now
<zequence> Meaning, first starting with the application developers, than with the packagers
<zequence> At least, i think it would make sense to include a privacy respecting search engine for web browser
<zequence> web browsers*
<zequence> it's still up to the user what to choose
<Paladine> well from my perspective I would prefer to have this implemented as far upstream as possible for obvious reasons, I am just not so confident it will happen - no offense to the FOSS community but in my experience it is somewhat full of Google fanboys
<Paladine> I am in th eprocess of discussing the issue with Alex Fowler at Mozilla too, but they have an existing relationship with Google which is the source of most of their revenues so it is much more difficult to gain any traction at that level
<Paladine> ok posted to the list, you should be able to see it now
<zequence> Paladine: Looks very well written :). Let's hope many people read it and turn it into an interesting discussion
<Paladine> thanks
<Paladine> I hope so too
<DarkEra> olah zequence 
<Paladine> dinner back shortly
<cub> Getting back to my inquires earlier about checking use cases against the workflows, should the aim to be to test with Saucy? Or is the interest in testing for the released versions as well?
<zequence> cub: saucy is prio. Any bugs should be reported, so we have a chance to fix them before release
<cub> downloading now
<cub> I haven't been involved with development releases before, but if I download the latest iso today and run in virtualbox, it will be able to keep updtated through apt-get still? Or do I need to download new iso-build every time?
<zequence> cub: updates are enough
<zequence> cub: but, sometimes, especially if an applications is updated to a newer version, like say, XFCE, user settings may not work as intended
<cub> ok
<zequence> the app is updated, but not necessarily the user settings
<DarkEra> zequence, you have the link to saucy's mini.iso's by chance?  seems i lost the last one. Had enough of VB because it just doesn't seem to work on my end so i need to install it on bare metal
<zequence> DarkEra: I usually use this page to get the links https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<zequence> just replace a release name with "saucy"
<DarkEra> thanks buddy
<DarkEra> looks like it's a total no go. Did a CLI install on the netbook of 13.10, added the ppa and want to install the gnome meta package of Ubuntu Studio. It complains about broken packages
<DarkEra> i'm about to drop it
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-25
<holstein> !vpn
<ubottu> For more information on vpn please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VPN
<cub> Anyone know if there is an archive of all the previous discussions on the different ubuntu mailing lists?
<smartboyhw> cub, yes ofc
<smartboyhw> Go to lists.ubuntu.com
<smartboyhw> Select the mailing list you want.
<smartboyhw> There should be an archive section.
<cub> aaah there was a link on the page. I was looking through it several times before but just didn't see it
<cub> Thanks, I was curious about Paladines email to the ubuntu-devel-discuss list yesterday about the search engine
<zequence> One result of that discussion was: ubuntu-defaults-builder
<zequence> I had never heard of it, but it sounds like something we should take a look at
<smartboyhw> zequence, I did heard of it:P
<smartboyhw> It is rather used to make your own flavour.
 * smartboyhw wonders should we use it to make Kubuntu Studio or Lubuntu Studio or GNOME Studio or:P
<smartboyhw> Make it unofficial of course:)
 * smartboyhw is busy making slides for his classroom session next Monday.
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, how are the sessions yesterday?
<DarkEra> dunno
<cub> zequence, what's ubuntu-defaults-builder? a new mail list?
<smartboyhw> cub, nah, some application used to build a -default-settings package.
<cub> aha
<smartboyhw> And you can make your own distro!
<cub> finally, a cub distro!
<smartboyhw> cub, ....:P
<astraljava> So that's what Apple is going to use when they run out of large feline names.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, ?
<astraljava> Add a 'cub' prefix.
<astraljava> ...and voilÃ¡, all previously used names available again.
<smartboyhw> .............
<cub> hehe
<micahg> OvenWerks: I've got a bunch of lintian warnings on the binary package, care to look at them?
<micahg> OvenWerks: at your leisure: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5798537/
<micahg> OvenWerks: oh, ignore the first one, that's lintian on precise not being happy (bad-distribution-in-changes-file)
<micahg> OvenWerks: also, ignore this one: ubuntustudio-menu: unknown-field-in-control original-maintainer
<OvenWerks> micahg: my version of lintian obviously doesn't check near as much. Thank you, I have copied your comments and the paste so I can look at it later.
<cub> zequence, are you around?
<zequence> cub: yep
<cub> you usually are. :D
<zequence> I try to be available to my fellow earthlings
<cub> about workflows (again) * for each use case, include only one application (there may be reasons
<cub>  to make exceptions in some cases)
<cub>  * don't include applications of your personal preference, when given a
<cub>  choice. Choose the one that is most popular (if most users use A, they
<cub>  won't be used to the B interface)
<cub> How do you document the use case? I
<cub> haven't used launchpad much before
<zequence> cub: I would start a wiki page for that
<cub> do we have any examples?
<zequence> let sort it a bit
<cub> I was thinking if it was done in earlier releases I could check them out
<zequence> no one has really done this before. the closes anybody came was listing applications
<zequence> the idea of focusing on workflows per se did not always exist either
<cub> ok, an open field then. I start out and we'll change as we go along
<cub> when you wrote wiki, you meant wiki.ubuntu.com?
<zequence> cub: this is the workflow area in the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows
<zequence> you can find "audio" in the sidebar https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows/Audio
<zequence> there's nothing there
<zequence> I would suggest to start by making a list of all existing audio applications for Ubuntu
<zequence> this should be done using apt magic
<cub> ok
<zequence> maybe sort applications by their category
<cub> I was thinking I might start out with  * desktop (generic tools for standard desktop use) as it is (sadly) what I use mostly nowadays
<zequence> synaptic might be helpful in that
<zequence> as for use cases..
<zequence> I think going into too much detail might get confusing
<zequence> but there are a few clear ones
<zequence> like, multi track recording, mixing, mastering
<zequence> audio file editing
<zequence> dj software
<zequence> smaller fields like audio programming
<zequence> (..like supercollider and puredata)
<zequence> live processing (using effect, - jackrack, calf, etc)
<zequence> puredata and supercollider may both fall into that category as well
<zequence> so, if you can A. list applications, B. list use cases
<zequence> the last bit would be to sort applications after use cases. Many apps fill many use cases
<cub> yeah
<cub> there was quite some information under audio after all
<cub> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/AudioWorkflowExamples
<zequence> yeah, that..
<zequence> I just put that there
<zequence> a few people described some workdlows
<holstein> !guidelines
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<holstein> ^^ unrelated.. getting it for another channel..
 * cub thought he was about to be told off..
<holstein> hehe
<zequence> cub: you may use anything under workflows as inspiration if you like, but I feel there's really not much to use for what we are talking about right now
<cub> sure I'll take a look at what's there and start out with listing apps
<zequence> there was talk about creating workflow applications, and such might already exist in the form of session managers
<zequence> and that's really where you'd want to go into detail with workflows
<zequence> so that you could set up templates for different stuff, like mixing or mastering
<cub> ah that would be cool
<cub> I have been thinking about that for my own use
<zequence> I guess it would be possible to do right now, using ladish, but only to some degree (haven't tried it for a while now)
<cub> I was looking at using xmonad and what one could do with their configs
<cub> which is not a session manager but might work to do what I had in mind
<cub> anyway, thanks for the chat. I'm going to set up my test machine now.
<OvenWerks> micahg: I am not sure what to do about lintian's idea that a desktop file shoulonly call a binary that a package contains. xdg-open (from the package in depends) is the standard tool for telling the system what application to use to open various urls. It therefore makes sense that this binary might be part of another package. How do I make lintian accept that?
<OvenWerks> I am not calling that program for itself, but to get the system to open a url.
<micahg> yeah, that's weird
<micahg> OvenWerks: I'd suggest adding an override for that warning about xdg-open
<OvenWerks> How would I do that?
<OvenWerks> micahg: also is xfce proper or Xfce? Same with KDE Kde kde...
<micahg> Xfce and KDE AIUI
<OvenWerks> ok
<micahg> OvenWerks: keep in mind the severity/certainty, lintian is a tool, but can be wrong at times
<micahg> if it were perfect, we'd probably just do it at the archive level
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> micahg: it appears that instead of xdg-open URL, I should be setting Type to Link and supplying a URL. I'll have to see what it does with an IRC:// type url.
<OvenWerks> http:// stuff works fine (at least in xfce)
<micahg> right, well, the example in the man page is URI:// or /path/to/file
<OvenWerks> IRC works as well. Even asks what app to use. Well it gave it to the browser and the browser asked.
<OvenWerks> micahg: what I find odd is that I can't find any overrides in settings, yet that is where I got that files from.
<OvenWerks> micahg: pushed new version. Everything should be fixed.
<OvenWerks> Hmm, debcommit pulled in an extra comment. From a change before the merge
<OvenWerks> Oh, because I fixed the spelling on that line.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-26
<holstein> !ati
<ubottu> For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto
<cub> I can't get the latest saucy iso to install on my virtualbox. I used amd64, is it worth to try i386 as well or is it more likely something with my hw that's causing trouble?
<smartboyhw> cub, hmm?
<smartboyhw> cub, actually the latest was really a long while ago.
<cub> 21st of June
 * smartboyhw has to look at the buildlogs of how images fail.
<smartboyhw> osspd: Conflicts: oss-compat. What?
<cub> I only get "piix4_smbus 0000:00:07.0: SMBus base address uninitialized - upgrade BIOS or use force_addre=0xaddr" in the beginning, but from what I read that should cause any real trouble
<cub> shouldn't...
<smartboyhw> cub, well it happens always in Virtualbox :P
<smartboyhw> I mean the piix4_smbus thing
<smartboyhw> I can install it though.
<smartboyhw> cub, have you activatedd VT-x support for your motherboard?
<cub> that was my conclusion as well
<cub> yeah, I run 12.04 and 13.04 in Vbox already
<smartboyhw> cub, I will test it later.
<cub> I'll download the i386 to try
<smartboyhw> Hmm I know the problem now. It's the new version of oss-compat causing problems (it's uploaded on 20130621, nice match)
<smartboyhw> Here's the problem. oss-compat recommends osspd, but osspd conflicts and replaces it
<smartboyhw> The !?
<cub> would an earlier build work then?
<smartboyhw> cub, it should.
<smartboyhw> I am thinking if this is a alsa-base problem, or a oss-compat or osspd problem.
<smartboyhw> The actual issue is that osspd provides it's own oss.
 * smartboyhw is perplexed.
<madeinkobaia> Hi all : )
<smartboyhw> Hey madeinkobaia 
<madeinkobaia> Hi smartboyhw !
<madeinkobaia> How are you ?
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, great. Doing some Alpha 1 testing.
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: Ok, great.
<madeinkobaia> For all, the new banner is now on line on all our social networks (g+, fb and youtube channel). 
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, great:)
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: its a little bit conceptual design. Hope not too much :P
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: Did you see Kaj today ?
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, no.
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: : (
<cub> smartboyhw, I tried an older iso for Saucy on amd64, same problem. However i386 from June 21st installed just fine. Well, except I have no menus but otherwise fine. :P
<smartboyhw> cub, no menus!?
<smartboyhw> zequence, holy christ:
<smartboyhw> Latest email in linux-rt-users
<smartboyhw> I was using ubuntu 9.10 (ubuntustudio-9.10-alternate-amd64.iso) with linux-rt package.
<smartboyhw> ;O
<smartboyhw> Who is still using that!?
<cub> If it works, don't mess with it. ;)
<cub> smartboyhw, menus, well I should have written panels I suppose
<smartboyhw> cub, The support period of that ended two full YEARS ago.
<smartboyhw> cub, screenshot!?
<cub> hmm wait, after my apt-get upgrade crashed, the panels showed up.  I'm confused.
<smartboyhw> cub, :!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
<smartboyhw> now that's weird.
<cub> yeah but I've had a couple of crashes right away I logged in
<smartboyhw> cub, hmm.....
 * smartboyhw zsyncs an ISO to test.
<cub> and now I chose "Shutdown" and it just logged me out.
<smartboyhw> cub, ah, that's actually what I'm encountering too.
<smartboyhw> cub, report a bug...
<smartboyhw> zequence, ^ any ideas for that?
<smartboyhw> cub, but it won't CRASH at the beginning...
<cub> no, it was when running apt-get upgrade it aborted
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw, cub: I think I have read in the xubuntu channel something about that.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, eh....
<cub> so I ran Software Updater, which crashed and tehn voila panels decided to show up
<smartboyhw> cub, screenshots...
<OvenWerks> If the last ISO is the 21st it may be fixed by now.
<cub> perhaps
<cub> It suggested I do a bug report so I did
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, yeah, but I'm keeping on wondering about that oss-config and osspd thing
<OvenWerks> It is hard to know what to do on that. My kubuntu only has osspd.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, the problem is that:
<smartboyhw> <smartboyhw> Here's the problem. oss-compat recommends osspd, but osspd conflicts and replaces it
<smartboyhw> <smartboyhw> I am thinking if this is a alsa-base problem, or a oss-compat or osspd problem.
<smartboyhw> <smartboyhw> The actual issue is that osspd provides it's own oss.
<OvenWerks> Yes, that is what it is for. So we should look and see if we include oss-compat and maybe remove it.
<OvenWerks> osspd works with alsa as oss-compat does, but also works directly with pulse.
<OvenWerks> Can you put an email in the list? That will remind me to look at it later today when I have time. I will go through the seeds.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, OK.
<OvenWerks> I need to get to work.
<smartboyhw> Hey DarkEra 
<DarkEra> hi smartboyhw 
<cub> huh Saucy installed Wine with the default installation
<smartboyhw> cub, !?
<cub> is there a common place we usually put screenshot?
<cub> I've seen some link but never paid attention to where it actually was
<smartboyhw> !screenshot
<ubottu> Screenshots can be made with the [PrtScr] button. Want to show us a screenshot of your problem? Upload an image to http://imagebin.org/?page=add and post a link to it.
<smartboyhw> cub, ^
<cub> aha
<cub> http://imagebin.org/262566
<smartboyhw> cub, seriously? I can't see the package (AT ALL) in the manifests....
 * smartboyhw is starting to think that cub has a strange computer.
<cub> that might be the case, but I don't think it would install Wine by itself though. :P
<cub> perhaps something has it as dependency?
<cub> audio plugins
<smartboyhw> cub, dependency?
<smartboyhw> Seriously, our daily build doesn't even CONTAIN that package.
<cub> let's see what it says if I try to remove it
<smartboyhw> cub, so what DOES it say?:P
<cub> nothing so far. Synaptic won't start.
<smartboyhw> cub, !??!?!?!?!??
<DarkEra> cub, try the terminal
<smartboyhw> cub, use terminal, apt-get remove wine
<smartboyhw> sudo of course.
<cub> yeah, even more fun
<smartboyhw> cub, how many GB of RAM do you have on your computer?
<cub> "Package 'wine' is not installed, so not removed."
<smartboyhw> cub, wine1.4
<cub> 4 GB on host, 1 GB for VBox
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, not surprizing to me... some things won't start sometimes in development releases
<smartboyhw> cub, hmm OK...
<cub> hm winetricks depends on wine.
<cub> so what is winetricks? :D
<smartboyhw> cub, you installed winetricks yourself?
<smartboyhw> We don't have any package starting with "wine"
<smartboyhw> ...
<smartboyhw> in our iamges
<cub> nope
<cub> I have just installed, booted up, logged in and ran update and upgrade
<smartboyhw> cub, where does it fail to install for amd64?
<cub> the amd64 will show the first low res "Ubuntu Studio . . . . . " then it goes black never to return
<cub> but that might be something with Vbox on my host
<smartboyhw> cub, heck, I have less RAM used for my VirtualBox VM (892 MB) and it passes through)
<cub> but the i386 installed right away
<smartboyhw> .....
<smartboyhw> cub, are you sure your computer is amd64!?
<cub> hehe yes. My host is amd64 and my other vboxes runt amd64
<smartboyhw> cub, I don't have that problem even I have the screen.
<DarkEra> i never could install a 64bit in VB
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, fail.:P
<smartboyhw> cub, DarkEra what processor do you have on your computers?
<cub> intel i5
<smartboyhw> cub, intel i5 here too.
<smartboyhw> What generation?
<cub> I have to finish up some work stuff..bbl
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, it's known 64bit won't always work on VB
<DarkEra> i hav a Core 2 Duo 1.83 Ghz
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, it always works for me (and I'm a heavy tester)
<DarkEra> weird
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, BTW can you have a readthrough of http://people.ubuntu.com/~smartboyhw/Ubuntu_ISO_Testing_CLASSROOM.pdf ?
<DarkEra> smartboyhw, will do so this evening ;)
<DarkEra> ok guys i'll be back later this evening. 
<zequence> Debian import freeze was moved up to 25th of July
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah. Get ardour3 before then:)
<zequence> I think we can get it before feature freeze even, just that it won't be synced automatically (all though, I'm not sure about how new packages are dealt with)
<zequence> some other things might be updated before than as well
<smartboyhw> zequence, DIFreeze is very near FF I think
<zequence> Yeah, I seem to remember the same
<OvenWerks> Hmm, lots of changes. Hasn't been that long since I played with studio 13.10, but 700+ upgrades?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-27
<OvenWerks> Takes three programs to get them all in too.
<OvenWerks> Hmm Thunar has no text... just squares.
<OvenWerks> removed some config files, rebooted ok.
<OvenWerks> I am guessing that the change in the font name(or package name) may have caused that.
<OvenWerks> As with other upgrades, my machine is less responcive. When we have a new ISO I will see if that is better
<OvenWerks> s/onc/ons/
<kubotu> OvenWerks meant: "As with other upgrades, my machine is less responsive. When we have a new ISO I will see if that is better"
<OvenWerks> holstein: why are people so afraid of the terminal?
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: I did a small change in the seeds we should see if it works today.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, yeah!
<OvenWerks> if not, the osspd package may have a bug
<smartboyhw> Hmm, let me see...
<OvenWerks> it should have a replaces line in it
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, I've activated a rebuild of images.
<smartboyhw> So we can know the results faster:)
<OvenWerks> in my case... I have 8 hrs of works before I care again :)
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, :)
<OvenWerks> Bye for now
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, zequence YEAH! WE GOT A NEW BUILD!
<smartboyhw> Cheers!
<zequence> OvenWerks: How did you spot the build error? I was trying to find some meaningful fail logs yesterday
<OvenWerks> zequence: smartboyhw told me about it. He would know.
<OvenWerks> I just took what he said and thought what I could do to fix it.
<OvenWerks> The change is in the desktop meta, because it is to do with pulse and desktop audio.
<OvenWerks> All of the build fail emails I have got are empty, So I don't know where to look for the logs.
<cub> I'm not sure, smartboyhw discovered it while we discussed why my Saucy installations kept failing
<OvenWerks> I have to ask him when next he is on.
<cub> * smartboyhw has to look at the buildlogs of how images fail.
<cub> <smartboyhw> osspd: Conflicts: oss-compat. What?
<cub> we still couldn't figure out why my saucy installation included wine by default though.
<OvenWerks> LMMS pulls it in
<cub> aha
<cub> he said there was nothing that would point to wine, but there we have it.
<cub> is it because of being able to use vst plugins or why does LMMS want it?
<OvenWerks> Ya, for VST. but I thought it was only for 32bit ISO
<cub> yes, I couldn't get amd64 to install, so I tried i386 which installed alright (but then had other issues)
<OvenWerks> wine is knda weird. It is all 32bit libs, but can run on a 64bit machines, but the install process filters out 32bit packages.
<cub> I never got anything to run properly in wine so I have given up on it
<OvenWerks> so it is possible to have a 64bit LMMS with  a 32bit wine, but not from ubuntu repos.
<cub> aha
<cub> but now that a new iso have been built I'll make another run at getting the 64bit version up in my virtualbox 
<OvenWerks> Wine just keeps getting better... but I have nothing to run on it... except "hulls.exe"
<cub> way back I wanted to run Internet Explorer to check web pages, but it never worked
<OvenWerks> So I do have much chance for failure either
<OvenWerks> I thought wine came with that...
<OvenWerks> nope, just the file explorer
<cub> this was back in 2000. :D Then I tried it again a few years back when my work required me to use some windows application
<cub> didn't work and I ended up being forced to windows machine.
<OvenWerks> The computers I used to use at work were all machine control, so whatever they ran was what I used... VMS and NT as happens.
<cub> what kind of work?
<OvenWerks> I used to fix mail sorting machines at Canada Post
<cub> cool
<OvenWerks> We moved from the Vancouver area so I am now delivering mail.
<OvenWerks> Lots of fresh air :)
<cub> I'm still in an office all day
<OvenWerks> I'm about half and half
<cub> which reminds me, I should get to bed to manage another day at the office tomorrow!
<cub> g'nite
<OvenWerks> GN then
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ok. I looked through the build log, but it wasn't revealing anything. The posts on the mail list were kind of mute
<OvenWerks> Where do I find the build log?
<zequence> Let me get the link..
<OvenWerks> I have been googling but not finding
<zequence> OvenWerks: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntustudio/saucy/
<zequence> There is some other stuff that might be interesting to look through on that site
<zequence> All Ubuntu members may upload their own stuff too
<zequence> ah, sorry
<zequence> there's also http://people.ubuntu.com
<zequence> mixed those up
<zequence> so, the second one is for ubuntu members
<zequence> not possible to browse, I think (the latter)
<zequence> anyway, this here http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/
<OvenWerks> Ya, I get sent to the wiki
<zequence> Ahh
<zequence> OvenWerks: I was looking the wrong place
<zequence> OvenWerks: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/saucy/ubuntustudio-dvd/20130625/livecd-20130625-amd64.out
<zequence> That's one of the ones that failed
<zequence> I'm thinking the reason why the log didnt' show on mail list is there's a maximum lenght for posts
<OvenWerks> Some one got it though.
<OvenWerks> So it got fixed
<OvenWerks> I'll keep a bookmark so I can find it next time
<zequence> The good thing about having text logs in a url like that is you can retrieve info using scripts or aliases for your bash
<zequence> Well, maybe not those logs, when I come to think about it
<zequence> I just saw there was a current and latest folder, but the names are still a bit custom
<zequence> but still, managable, if you ask for logs of a specific date
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-28
<zequence> Got an email from http://frostbitemedia.org/ asking if someone would be interested in participating on a podcast interview
<brian__> Hi All.  I'm interested in helping out with Ubuntu Studio.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-29
<zequence> the latest stable -lowlatency 3.8 seems to have caused some problems for usb device users, LP #1185563
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1185563 in linux-lowlatency (Ubuntu) "3.8.x low latency kernels poor performance with usb" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185563
<zequence> but, it seems to be related to LP #1191603
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1191603 in linux (Ubuntu) "raring-updates: regression: 3.8.0-24.35 causes sporadic failure of USB audio devices" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1191603
<smartboyhw> Heh,,,
<OvenWerks> zequence: Re: 3.8, it also doesn't look like 3.9/10 will fix this from the converstion on LAU
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, uh oh...;
<smartboyhw> This can be pulled I think sometime.
<smartboyhw> s/This/This patch/
<kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "This patch can be pulled I think sometime."
<OvenWerks> I need to get out my USB IF and see if I have similar problems... though mine is only a USB 1.1 audio device.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, uh. 1.1...
 * smartboyhw isn't sure if he has a 1.1 deice.
<zequence> most usb devices run in 1.1 mode on Linux
<zequence> audio devices, that is
<OvenWerks> USB 2.0 devices were problematic in my price range
<OvenWerks> If I was to buy one today, there are better choices
<smartboyhw> Hmm, something was wrong with my sasl...
<smartboyhw> Grr, the auth timed out,.
<OvenWerks> tons of xruns.
<smartboyhw> zequence, ..........
<OvenWerks> lots of midi errors... but midi is from a PCI card
 * smartboyhw really wants USB 3.0 ports and drives.
<OvenWerks> USB 3.0 will not really help audio
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, I want drives.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, really? 
<OvenWerks> The only way it might help is to allow some kind of extrenal hub
<OvenWerks> Right now thge audio IF needs to be the only USB device on a USB port adding anything else (mouse KB etc) will cause problems
<OvenWerks> a page of errors at shutdown as well, That never used to happen. Even at -p1024 with no xruns
<OvenWerks> p256 is still ok
<OvenWerks> p128 is over the line, lots of xruns
<OvenWerks> even raising periods to 3 doesn't help.
<OvenWerks> p256 at 10ms is ok for recording, but not so good for live use like softsynth/effects
<OvenWerks> I had this device stable at -p64 before.
<OvenWerks> (~3ms)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-30
<zequence> OvenWerks: I think we can override DE settings from some simple debian files, when installing with out metas
<zequence> I'm still not sure how the sessions become choosable in the login window. If you have some insight in this, that would be nice
<zequence> as for artwork, and other stuff, it seems we can install any DE, not having to keep our own seed file for it, then override settings
<zequence> a ubuntustudio-desktop-kde could depend entirely on the kde desktop as is, or ubuntustudio-desktop-kubuntu, and then, we just override some things
<zequence> this would mean the least amount of maintenance required
<zequence> sorry, I always seem to write a lot of confusing stuff..
<zequence> what I meant was, a ubuntustudio-desktop-kde, or ubuntustudio-desktop-kubuntu package could depend entirely on the kde desktop + ubuntustudio-default-settings, and we just override some stuff using some debian packaging magic
<zequence> so, we don't need our own seed file at all for any of the desktops really, if we want
 * smartboyhw agrees with zequence 
<smartboyhw> Overriding some stuff, this basically means Breaks: and Replaces:
<smartboyhw> in debian/control
<zequence> actually, I'm talking about overriding things like gsettings
<zequence> artwork particularly
<zequence> for Unity, I'd very much like to disable the lens stuff, that is enabled by default. Things like that
<Mish> yes that'd be very much preferred
<zequence> smartboyhw: but, overriding depends could be something we want to do too in some cases
<zequence> like, any dependency on linux-generic, if such exists
<smartboyhw> zequence, Breaks: linux-generic :P
<madeinkobaia> Hi fellows.
<smartboyhw> Hi madeinkobaia 
<madeinkobaia> Hi smartboyhw : )
<Mish> hello madeinkobaia
<madeinkobaia> Hi Mish : )
<Mish> madeinkobaia: I have updated my branch of the ubuntustudio-icon-theme. You could take a look and make improvements if necessary.
<Mish> https://code.launchpad.net/~mishrashubham2007
<Mish> oh and others can take a look as well :D
<zequence> Mish: black and white icons?
<Mish> yes
<madeinkobaia> Mish: Thanks for asking. Its simple and nice. Now I should have an overview of the icon set for have an opinion. Did you used Inkscape or work on Gimp only ?
<Mish> Inkscape only
<madeinkobaia> Mish: Ok.
<Mish> zequence: Tried to keep with the elementary-dark theme
<Mish> All the panel icons were B/W
<zequence> Ok, but we aren't using the dark theme, are we?
<zequence> Also, is there something missing in any discussion on the mail list?
<Mish> we aren't? Oh ok, I had elementary-Xubuntu-dark enabled by default on my 12.04 install
<Mish> haven't been keeping up with 13.04 though
<Mish> zequence: something missing in the mailing list? I don't get the context....
<zequence> Mish: some posts look like they are a continuation of a discussion, but there doesn't seem to be a start of it
<zequence> might be me who is missing something
<Mish> zequence: I don't get properly threaded discussions on my mail client either. Some replies start of as new threads. Don't know why that's happening
<Mish> zequence: btw what theme are we using in the current ISO?
<zequence> I'd just like to make it clear that any change in something artwork related things need to pass through madeinkobaia
<zequence> not sure if he has been included in discussions so far
<zequence> I know OvenWerks (len) was doing work on that by himself before, but now that we have an art lead, things are different
<zequence> I haven't followed this work very closely myself, as I've been busy, so I don't know the motivation or the reason for the changes
<Mish> Cool, I've already asked madeinkobaia to look at it
<Mish> zequence: what changes?
<zequence> Mish: I was referring to the icons you are submitting
<Mish> zequence: Oh ok. From what I've been told, the icons being currently used in the menus are from different applications and Len wanted independent ones, and also with a somewhat unified look
<zequence> I think all of that is fine, and it is good of Len to let you know how the development process works, and so on, but madeinkobaia should really be a part of the discussion
<smartboyhw> Yeah, how's Ubuntu Studio's development going actually?
 * smartboyhw has been too busy at Kubuntu.
<zequence> which he is now, of course
<Mish> yes, hence the note to him since I was on IRC today
<zequence> so, we just need to figure out what we want, what we don't want, and so on. and, might be good to discuss things before hand, so that people don't work at something which ends up not being accepted
<Mish> yeah
<smartboyhw> Utilize the mailing list as much as possible, that helps:)
<smartboyhw> I mean, madeinkobaia isn't always on IRC.
<zequence> I
<zequence> sorry
<smartboyhw> ?
<Mish> ?
<zequence> I'm not sure how the icon theme is packaged yet, so I need to have a look at that myself
<zequence> (the ' symbol is right next to the ENTER button)
<Mish> oh ok cool
<smartboyhw> zequence, this is what makes Ubuntu great: Arguments http://lwn.net/Articles/556517/
<smartboyhw> Look at the comments and you'll understand:P
<zequence> I don't have anything against MIR myself, but then, I don't know the technical problems involved - which you don't if you don't know your stuff
<zequence> so, most peoples opinions about this are probably not going to be qualified
<zequence> I think the biggest source of irritation is about Canonical not involving the community enough in the early development process and decisions therein
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: Mish: I am permanently on call by mail or other ways, all the infos for contact me are on our wiki page : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/madeinkobaia
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, http://dreamstudio.dickmacinnis.com/dreamstudio-unity-12-04-3-official-release/
<zequence> but, if by chance if MIR is technically the best choice, or as good choice as any of the other alternatives, I don't see why not everyone should support it and get involved in developing it
<smartboyhw> As a Kubuntu member and also a Ubuntu member at the same time (directly), I think it would be great if Canonical can actually HELP Kubuntu make Mir possible
<smartboyhw> zequence, the problem is KDE upstream denied any talk about Mir.
<smartboyhw> Making the whole thing worse.
<zequence> smartboyhw: Does that seem wise to you?
<smartboyhw> zequence, what seems wise?
<zequence> To deny any talk about MIR
<Mish> madeinkobaia: ok thanks. You are subscribed to the UBS mailing  lists right?
<smartboyhw> zequence, no.
<smartboyhw> Very unwise.
<smartboyhw> I mean, sure one might say that it adds another layer to KWin (KDE's Window space), in this case, mgrasselin, the main KWin developer.
<smartboyhw> zequence, they are saying that since it's a single distribution thing, they aren't gonna add it.
<madeinkobaia> Mish: For sure.
<Mish> madeinkobaia: ok cool
<madeinkobaia> Mish: No worries : )
<zequence> smartboyhw: if it is, and can't be applied to anything else than Ubuntu, then I think the argument is valid
<zequence> if it can be packaged for other distros, and forked if needed, it's a technology that can be used
<zequence> if it's good, that would be worth doing
<OvenWerks> zequence: I agree.
<OvenWerks> I think kubuntu/kde is looking at the track record of upstart for example, but I think that is a poor compairison
<OvenWerks> Speaking about upstart, Ubuntu is looking at using upstart as the session manager... not sure if that is the right term really, but to start all of the appliactions/applets at login time.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, KDE has seeen that becasue the rest of the linux world was working on another solution to replace init (systemd) they have rejected upstart.
<OvenWerks> KDE has spent a lot of effort getting ready for wayland and does not wish to redo the work for one distro. MIR may prove itself better, but if so it will be "down the road".
<OvenWerks> New projects take time to gather acceptance, even when they are clearly better. Even with accpetance, implementation takes time. I was around for the OSS->ALSA transition...
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'm taking a look at ubiquity right now. Documenting what I find here later https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Ubiquity#preview
<zequence> I just proposed a merge to replace the default background, which is done in the source for "ubiquity"
<zequence> I'll be collecting anything important for us to know on that page
<zequence> the default background for when you do the install, and skip try the live OS
<OvenWerks> Ya, we don't have one.
<OvenWerks> I am guessing other flavours have just included their own with the same name.
<zequence> OvenWerks: 
<zequence> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm#L308
<zequence> it's still the Macinnis one. I'm proposing a merge with the current one first. We still need a new wallpaper for 13.10, so we'll be changing it again probably
<holstein> !proaudio
<ubottu> For information on professional audio tools in Ubuntu, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/ProAudioIntro
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-23
<cub> Hi elfy, as we talked about some time ago I have been interested in helping out with the testing plans. But I have been too busy with new job and life for a while and don't see it calming down any time soon. :/
<cub> And hello to you all! :) I'm still reading the logs and mailists every day, just now possible to hang out in the channel much nowadays or to do any actual useful stuff.
<elfy> hi cub :)
<elfy> yea I know that - people have real life - I guess the issue here is that there aren't many people reading mailing lists that want to get involved - not sure what we can do about that
<elfy> but - xubuntu testing (and I think everyone else) is really really quiet at the moment as well
<cub> The lashback after a release.
<elfy> and a LTS as well :)
<cub> exactly
<cub> I'm doing work with my GFs company's websites which pretty much takes all free time
<elfy> nice 
<cub> on the upside I've learned a lot more on Wordpress and php
<elfy> :)
<cub> lousy pay though. ;)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> I work part-time - I bet it's lousier here ;)
<cub> he
<zequence> OvenWerks: i created a mail list for ubuntustudio-bugs, so that it's easier to sort it in the mailbox
<cub> Hi zequence 
<cub> I've seen that Joey has asked a lot about work on the website. Do you have any contact with Nick?
<cub> And didi you have list of things that Nick was going to look into? I can have a go at it as I've been doing a lot of wordpress and php work lately.
<zequence> cub: Nick's not been around much.
<zequence> I did have one request: to make the grey text a little less grey, so it is more easy to read
<zequence> Just little things like that
<cub> that should be an easy style.css fix
<zequence> Nick had some ideas on how to redo the whole thing
<zequence> Yeah
<zequence> I could do it myself, but I'd prefer we had someone else doing that
<cub> to do the fix or to do a complete overhaul of the site?
<zequence> I think we should keep the website theme until 16.04, and just freshen it up a little with changes like that
<zequence> I haven't done much Wordpress theming, so I wouldn't be the one to do a complete overhaul, no
<cub> I think the site on a whole is good. madeinkobaia had some plans for 14.04 which could have changed the entire look'n'feel for US but there was no time
<cub> exactly, minor fixes and updates and if there is a need for 16.04 a bigger change could be done
<cub> I've been doing some wp and themeing lately as my GFs one-woman-company is moving to wordpress for the site and blog
<cub> and she doesn't want anything "standard". :D
<cub> I could set up a test environment on one of my sites. The ubuntustudio.org is managed through Canonical right?
<cub> while my php knowledge is still intact ...
<cub> I'll try to sneak in some time setting it up with the https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website branch.
<zequence> cub: I have a playground site set up at http://ubuntustudio.mousike.me
<zequence> Standard WP install at binero.se, with our theme on it
<zequence> The only diff is the logo at the top
<zequence> ..so far
<zequence> Let me know if you want to have access, and I'll send you the details
<cub> sure thingk
<zequence> OvenWerks: Considering the links you posted about the realtime patch, it seems as getting -rt in is a pretty low priority right now
<zequence> OvenWerks: First time I really glance at the grub code. Fault of mine, as I really should keep a keen eye on anything getting in from us. Where did you get this code? Did you do it all yourself, from scratch?
<zequence> I wonder if we can't simplify that.
<OvenWerks> Ya, I think RT will sort itself out... or at least is in flux for a bit.
<OvenWerks> The grub code could be simplified a lot if we just replaced the whole 10-linux file...
<OvenWerks> The problem is that we can't do that unless we replace part of the grub package with a ubuntustudio-grub
<OvenWerks> we don't want to do that.
<OvenWerks> The grub code is just sh script. It would make more sense to upstream another variable that can be set for prefered kernel.
<zequence> OvenWerks: We should do that upstream then. You have a good idea of what is needed?
<OvenWerks> I could try some thing. and see if it will patch. I would probably need to look at the debian code to see how it is different from ubuntu.
<OvenWerks> I think it ends up beingtwo or three lines difference.
<OvenWerks> But I had to replicate most of 10-linux
<zequence> Yeah, that's not an optimal situation
<zequence> The upstream script may change too, and don't think we are keeping an eye on that
<OvenWerks> Basically adding a patch would allow one to choose RT or lowlatency or generic as default
<OvenWerks> If the variable was not set you would just get the latest.
<OvenWerks> Yes that was one of my worries. Another efi bug or something.
 * OvenWerks is off to work.
<zequence> I'm off home
<zequence> off to home, I should say
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-24
<cub> good morning zequence, I played around a bit on http://bandforum.info/ubuntustudio
<cub> A bit darker grey, something in between what is was and the actual post text.
<cub> some issues with caching though which is weird.
<zequence> cub: Looks better, but I personally would still like it to be a little more visible
<zequence> cub: What do you think of the sidebar? Could we pimp that up somehow?
<zequence> Rosco2: I think we need to trim the packages that we subcribe to. Hadn't taken a look at the whole list yet, but some of the big apps we don't really need to focus so much on, like Libre Office
<zequence> Also, pulseaudio. There are a lot of bugs for pulseaudio and it has enough eyes already
<Rosco2> Agreed. Ones with another team already assigned are easy to identify.
<Rosco2> My mailbox is getting very clogged :-)
<Rosco2> Will start trimming it down tomorrow. I am about to sort out subscribing to the new mailing list.
<elfy> zequence: saaw the QA blueprint notes
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-25
<jimbohertz> yo what was the msg about rt kernel about ?
<holstein> jimbohertz: when?
<jimbohertz> 8:00 east ?
<holstein> jimbohertz: i see no messages to your nick. who said it?
<jimbohertz> Kaj Ailomaa & Ralf Mardorf
<jimbohertz> I'm just read the digest
<holstein> jimbohertz: on the mailing list?
<jimbohertz> yeh
<holstein> jimbohertz: its about the rt kernel 
<holstein> jimbohertz: how it may not be a high priority
<jimbohertz> why is it not ?
<holstein> http://embeddedenea.com/2014/03/17/speculations-on-real-time-linux-future/
<holstein> jimbohertz: because, the low latency kernel is meeting needs, and doing it in a balanced way
<jimbohertz> people want rt for ubuntu studio ?
<holstein> they can have it
<jimbohertz> yeah
<holstein> there are PPA's, and other sources.. anyone can make what they want anytime
<jimbohertz> but its about having it by default ?
<holstein> its just, zequence was saying, its a lower prority now
<holstein> jimbohertz: why? do you want it by default?
<jimbohertz> well i tried out rt on debian
<jimbohertz> and sound is better
<jimbohertz> very noticable
<holstein> no
<holstein> the latency is lower. the sound is uneffected
<holstein> its not addressing the sound in any way
<jimbohertz> uh
<jimbohertz> you tried ?
<holstein> jimbohertz: yes
<jimbohertz> really...
<holstein> jimbohertz: its not for "better sound"
<jimbohertz> no i mean
<jimbohertz> you tried?
<holstein> jimbohertz: its only for lower latency
<holstein> its not magic
<holstein> jimbohertz: yes
<jimbohertz> sound depends on latency
<holstein> jimbohertz: no
<jimbohertz> sound depends entirely on time
<jimbohertz> yes it does
<holstein> jimbohertz: ok
<holstein> jimbohertz: use what you want.. the timing of the sound isnt effecting the quality
<jimbohertz> ?
<jimbohertz> that doesn't make sense
<holstein> latency means that, instead of 20ms later than when you presss the play button, it happens at 80ms.. or 3ms
<holstein> the sound is the same
<jimbohertz> are you sure ?
<holstein> just at a different time. or latency
<holstein> jimbohertz: quite
<jimbohertz> its so funny
<holstein> jimbohertz: its not a feature, goal, or ability of the kernel to affect the sound quality
<jimbohertz> your funny
<holstein> jimbohertz: sounds travels through air at around 1ms per foot.. so, if you sit 6 feet closer to your speakers, that 6ms lower latency
<jimbohertz> WHAT
<holstein> jimbohertz: no kernel hacks.. or, addons.. just analog latency reduction
<jimbohertz> I have headphone from cm to my ears
<holstein> jimbohertz: then, you  have lower latency that way
<jimbohertz> oh boy
<holstein> jimbohertz: ?
<jimbohertz> ok
<jimbohertz> 1ms per foot
<holstein> jimbohertz: sound takes time to travel through the air, friend
<jimbohertz> citation needed
<jimbohertz> just cause i dont know
<jimbohertz> not because i do not believe you
<jimbohertz> im interested
<holstein> jimbohertz: search as you please
<jimbohertz> i always checked for the 
<holstein> jimbohertz: or, just notice the latency around you
<jimbohertz> equation but
<jimbohertz> hey dude
<jimbohertz> oh well
<holstein> jimbohertz: like when you see a plane above, and then you hear it... or if youve ever been to a football game
<jimbohertz> then latency has an effect on quality ?
<jimbohertz> haha
<holstein> jimbohertz: no
<jimbohertz> never been to a football gave
<holstein> jimbohertz: its the same sounds.. just later..
<jimbohertz> but there are planes everyday going over my head
<jimbohertz> airports bro
<holstein> jimbohertz: the quality of the sound is the same.. just later
<jimbohertz> everywhere
<jimbohertz> ok but that sound has to be processed
<jimbohertz> by the cpu
<holstein> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound
<jimbohertz> and not to mention
<jimbohertz> pulled from a storage
<jimbohertz> solution
<holstein> jimbohertz: correct.. this is *after* that latency
<holstein> this is in the air.. 
<jimbohertz> wtf
<jimbohertz> that doesnt make sense
<jimbohertz> its not playing while its being processed
<jimbohertz> only after
<holstein> jimbohertz: it leaves the computer, and travels to your ear
<jimbohertz> hahaha
<jimbohertz> thats an oversimplification
<holstein> jimbohertz: its fact
<jimbohertz> what is ?
<holstein> jimbohertz: the latency of the computer.. *then* the latency of the travel to your ear
<jimbohertz> but why are you telling me this ??
<holstein> jimbohertz: im trying to have a factual conversation about latency.
<jimbohertz> uh
<jimbohertz> nah
<holstein> latency, or timing
<jimbohertz> do you play an instrument >
<jimbohertz> ?
<holstein> not, sound quality
<holstein> yes
<jimbohertz> which?
<holstein> i play bass, mostly and guitar, professionally.. but, i play others
<jimbohertz> or if you have know how to play
<jimbohertz> ah
<holstein> i studied percussion and play piano.. and others
<jimbohertz> you play guitar professionally ? really ?
<jimbohertz> in what scenario
<holstein> mostly bass.. professionally.. but gutiar as well
<holstein> do i play?
<jimbohertz> professionally yes
<holstein> whatever folks call for. i freelance
<jimbohertz> ah
<jimbohertz> alright
<holstein> i have a few regular bands, and weeklys or whatever
<jimbohertz> but you dont use low latency if you say record ?
<jimbohertz> and use fx
<holstein> jimbohertz: it depends on what im recording and how
<jimbohertz> sure
<holstein> jimbohertz: if im recording live, as i usually do, then what do i care about latency?
<holstein> it makes no difference if the computer is 60ms behind everything equally
<holstein> or 90.. or whatever
<jimbohertz> but what kernel do you use ?
<holstein> but, if i want to play a software synth or realtime effects from the machine, i will do more like 5ms
<holstein> jimbohertz: i use whatever kernel works.. right now, the lowlatency works fine
<holstein> i use the RT kernel from debian as well on some older installs
<jimbohertz> yeah
<holstein> i have used and tested the normal generic kernels
<jimbohertz> simple to install thats cool
<holstein> i have used and tested the ppa versions from kxstudio
<jimbohertz> whats that >
<jimbohertz> ?
<holstein> i have used them with various audio equipment.. to see what works with what
<holstein> jimbohertz: kxstudio? 
<holstein> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/
<jimbohertz> woah
<holstein> falk repackages for his custom distro
<holstein> though, i just use stock 14.04 now.. i did use the ppa's in 10.04 and a version of 12.04 i was using
<jimbohertz> whats good for designing synth ?
<jimbohertz> like, most complete
<holstein> "good" is a matter of opinion
<holstein> yoshimi is nice.. but, i would ask in #opensourcemusicians
<jimbohertz> ^^^
<holstein> i do mostly analog
<jimbohertz> ah i see
<jimbohertz> but
<jimbohertz> is there a software to create my own synth ?
<jimbohertz> how does that work
<jimbohertz> mmhh
<jimbohertz> ill check #opensourcemusicians too
<holstein> you likely want pd
<jimbohertz> pd?
<holstein> http://puredata.info/
<jimbohertz> ah yes
<jimbohertz> can people publish music and sell it using these software ?
<holstein> can?
<holstein> jimbohertz: there are no rules like that
<holstein> jimbohertz: i do
<jimbohertz> ah
<jimbohertz> cool :)
<jimbohertz> can i hear ?
<holstein> sure.. http://holsteinmusic.com/
<jimbohertz> ooo
<jimbohertz> thats you ?
<holstein> jimbohertz: thats my material, all created and produced in ubuntustuduio
<jimbohertz> on the picture thats you ?
<jimbohertz> so cool
<holstein> i did it for the rpm challenge..
<holstein> yes.. i did art, since i actually pressed physical copies
<holstein> the label that i went with wasnt interested in making them :/
<jimbohertz> ah
<holstein> so, i pressed them myself. and they do digital distribution.. but, i do bandcamp on my own.. i like bandcamp
<jimbohertz> i have to listen to it
<jimbohertz> bandcamp is awesome
<holstein> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wr2DxHbzEA other stuff
<jimbohertz> recorded with ?
<holstein> "open" i recorded with a tube mic.. an alesis groove tube tube mic.. into a presonus eureka pre.. into a presonus firewire interface
<holstein> the guitar thing, i acutally recorded that on a handheld tascam and brought it into ubuntu
<holstein> i just didnt have time and i needed it for a demo
<jimbohertz> yeah i can hear the sound
<holstein> you can "hear the sound"?
<jimbohertz> ha
<jimbohertz> haha XD
<holstein> you mean, of the guitar?
<jimbohertz> tascam
<holstein> its a classical guitar, actually
<holstein> its quite similar to that..
<holstein> the handheld is actually quite a high quality
<jimbohertz> what is it ?
<jimbohertz> yeah it doesnt sound bad
<holstein> i think its a dr-40?
<holstein> its out on loan, or id confirmm.. but im pretty certain
<jimbohertz> mmhh
<cub> zequence: About the website, perhaps we could just make the meta text below the articles the same colour? I have made it a bit darker again, but as I have issues with changed css settings not being visible directly after I'm not sure which version I'm actually seeing.
<cub> It shouldn't be related to the hosting site but I can't think of what is causing it otherwise. Anyhow, about the sidebar I agree, a bit dull. No great suggestions so far to spice it up, but I'll ping madeinkobaia who might have some good ideas.
<cub> going be in training all day now so, see ya folks!
<zequence> elfy: I was mostly going through the blueprints. Will draft up some wiki pages for some of them, so I can wrap things up
<zequence_> OvenWerks: Sorry about calling you by half your last name on the mail list. I mix up names really easy.
<zequence> OvenWerks: I would like for us to start using wiki pages for defining features from now on, and that we put bullets of features or tasts there first, before putting anything on blueprints
<zequence> For blueprints, there may often not be much need for workitems, but it's good if we have established a definition of what we want to do first, before we start doing it, and I find the wiki is a much better place for that
<zequence> OvenWerks: I can't think of any other way to have a DE agnostic setup, with our artwork, other than having a settings package for each DE, with DE specific overrides and settings
<zequence> This is, if we care about default theming
<zequence> We could also just install theming, and let the user change to it
<zequence> However, don't think it would require all that much work just to change theming for each DE
<zequence> Another possibility would be that we offer some of the other flavors a ubiquity plugin, which lets the user install Studio from any of their ISOs
<zequence> Without our theming..
<zequence> or, with, if they agree on names like "Xubuntu Studio", "Kubuntu Studio"..
<zequence> Maybe for 16.04
<cub> Just trying out hexchat after the discussion on the xubuntu-devel mailing list. Looks good, works fine and was easier to get Solarized than xchat, so I'm happy. I think we could consider using hexchat as a replacement for xchat as well.
<cub> zequence, I settled on the grey on the website. Ok with you? If so, then I should upload and request a merge I suppose? But how is it going from launchpad to the actual server?
<OvenWerks> zequence: +1 on the use of wiki for feature definition.
<OvenWerks> zequence: Re: Studio artwork and theming... My thought is that needs to user/installer selectable.
<zequence> cub: We create a rt ticket at http://rt.ubuntu.com
<zequence> Canonical admins the actual server
<OvenWerks> I think there will be users who just want a workfow from studio and have already selected a family picture, a cult symbol they like or a nature picture and really do not want that disturbed. We already muck with their menu and that makes it obvious that Studio is installed.
<zequence> We should have theming as an option, if installing Studio on top of an existing flavor
<OvenWerks> Certainly the backdrop file themself should be on the disk and available for those who want them.
<zequence> User settings don't get disturbed though
<OvenWerks> Right,
<zequence> But things like plymoth and lightdm
<OvenWerks> lightdm seems to use the user's setting these days.
<zequence> Going to sleep. bb tomorrow
<OvenWerks> plymouth should have a mix, I think. Something unique to each DE
<OvenWerks> K, bye for now.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-28
<jimbohertz> hi
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-29
<jimbohertz> hi
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-22
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Either we put all multimedia players into one, or separate. I suppose it makes more sense to have them all in one, in their own submenu.
<zequence> We should add the category "player" to all of those.
<zequence> To all the desktop files, that is
<zequence> All and all about 400 desktop files to check, and possibly do changes in
<zequence> kdenlive is in the graphics section, not video. Does that make sense?
<zequence> In Debian, I believe it is in the video section
<zequence> There are more packages that seem to be in the wrong section. We'll need to add that as something to check while going through the desktop files
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I am thinking that if I make the menu file use the correct categories, then which ever apps have to have their desktop file listed in some place to make it work are the ones that need to be changed.
<OvenWerk1> Simple scan is correct BTW :)
<zequence> Right. We need to change the desktop files. But, we can't just change the desktop files to something that works for our menu. It needs to make sense. Only after that can we see how our menu can make sense of the categories, as is the idea with these freedesktop categories anyway
<zequence> IT's a lot of work though. But, it's not only about the menu after all
<OvenWerk1> That is what I mean. Make our menu work with the categoies as it should then if we have to do anything special for one app see about fixing those apps.
<OvenWerk1> It is not just about the menu, but the menu tends to show when things are off.
<OvenWerk1> It is an easy to use measuring stick
<zequence> I agree.
<OvenWerk1> Basically, if we have to use <filename> in the menu file, either we or the application is doing something wrong.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Do you have much experience with tuners?
<zequence> Not talking about tuning your guitar
<zequence> It seems to be categorized under AudioVideo and Audio, but not Video
<zequence> I can understand that for a Radio tuner, but aren't there satellite ones too?
<zequence> Though, it seems there are no video tuner applications at all, so maybe I'm misunderstanding the term
<zequence> ..not in the repo, anyway
<zequence> So, the Utility category, but couple with audio and video..
<zequence> X-AudioUtility, perhaps?
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I would just use "not audio" in accessories. So if there is utility and audio that could be the same as audioutility. Though if people are willing to add X-AudioUtility, that would be even better/easier.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: I'm not sure that would work in standard menus though. Something that has Utility in it might end up under Accesories, even if an audio application
<zequence> This is why I'm thinking AudioUtility would be better.
<zequence> With AudioVideo in all Audio or Video applications, universal support is ensured.
<zequence> I think it's only with Audio and Video that it is ok to mix two main categories
<zequence> Well, at least like AudioVideo;Audio, or AudioVideo;Video
<zequence> With others, I'm worried we might shoot ourselves in the foot
<zequence> I'm adding all the suggestions to the wiki so far.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Seems someone assigned themselves to the bug concerning GRUB and distro name
<zequence> bug 1242417
<ubottu> bug 1242417 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu Precise) "UEFI install broken when GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR!=Ubuntu (e.g. Kubuntu/UbuntuStudio)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242417
<OvenWerk1> :) ya I saw that, I think Both kubuntu and well as STudio have solved that and moved on a long time ago.
<OvenWerk1> It is not worth doing local (to ubuntu) changes that will have to be redone forever because upstream is not interested.
<OvenWerk1> (speaking of Grub here)
<OvenWerk1> If I get bored with all the rest of the projects I am working on, I may try working with grub upstream on this stuff.
<OvenWerk1> All it needs is to start using another variable for "menuname".
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-23
<OvenWerks> zequence: made major jump in menu... but you will have seen the email anyway :)
<OvenWerks> zequence: Can we use X-UbuntuStudio as a category? It seems to me we make the *.desktop files that go in our UbuntuStudio menu anyway.
<OvenWerks> zequence: Ya, the desktop files are a part of the menu package so if Lintian doesn't get upset we should be ok.
<OvenWerks> Actually there is a standard category called "Documentation". We should see if we can get xfce to add that to their "About-xfce" menu item.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-24
<OvenWerks> The Midi Category is more of a problem. Lots of things include Midi but not other things. 
<OvenWerks> zequence: Even though there is a Midi Catagory, it is pretty much useless. Midi as a category is very common and we really want MidiUtilities... 
<OvenWerks> Or we want the rest of the apps with Midi in them to also have something beyond Audio and Midi such as DAW/AudioVideoEditing/Sequencer or whatever. The X-instrument/Effects would help too.
<OvenWerks> So, on the audio front, the good news is that the Mutimedia Players menu only uses the category Player with no filenames. Audio production works as a catch all for any new audio applications. Probably a good default.
<OvenWerks> Video is quite good already. Basically we can do AudioVideo No Audio No Player and there are only two Applications we have right now that do not work. Blender (which calls itself graphics) and xjadeo which includes the Category Player... which really it is. But it is a specialized player meant for syncing Audio.
<OvenWerks> :P spoke too soon. I would still go with it though. The problem is that there are a number of audio things that do not have Audio. It makes a lot more sense to call a Video tool AudioVideo as most support audio and video. It should be easier to ask the dev of an Audio tool to include audio than a Video tool to also include video.
<OvenWerks> I have put Tuner in with Audio utilities as at least one guitar tuner uses it and more than half the applications that turned up in a tuner search were audio pitch related.
<OvenWerks> I am not sure there are enough publishing applications to make a sub menu worth while.
<OvenWerks> Basically there is only Scribus in there...
<OvenWerks> zequence: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-menu/ubuntustudio-menu could use an upload... Or we can build it as refference for those who want to comment of menu direction.
<OvenWerks> (add it to our US PPA)
<OvenWerks> zequence: every time there is a <filename> means something need another category.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-25
<zequence> OvenWerks: I might not be able until the end of this week. Not sure we can find time to make all the changes needed in the desktop file before this release, in which case we might not be able to use the fullblown new version, but still use some custom stuff.
<zequence> the fullblown new version of the menu, I mean. There are still some categories we might want to add.
<zequence> I wonder if there's any way in Debian to differentiate packages that have desktop files from packages that do not
<zequence> Also, if there is some form of application search based on the packages, rather then other means. One package may contain more than one application, after all.
<zequence> Or, even better. A way to list applications, and group them by GTK, QT or CLI, or even just Graphical and CLI.
<OvenWerks> What I have done so far will work as is with no *desktop file fixes. But it sets the ground work so that Filename lines can be removed as the desktop files are fixed. It also defaults in a better way for new software the user may install after the first distro install.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-27
<OvenWerks> zequence: I forgot to mention. Generally many of our users end up trying to build an application they have downloaded from somewhere. The biggest stumbling block I have seen is that they need the Jackd includes, but trying to install the most obvious package, libjack-dev, tries to uninstall all the jack reliant packages. I think it makes sense to just include libjack-jackd2-dev as part of the distro.
<OvenWerks> zequence: it may even make sense (if debian maintainers are willing) to just include the dev stuff as part of the main package.
<OvenWerks> zequence: The other problem I am starting to see, is that jackd2 seems to have stopped development and all the new stuff is getting added to jackd1. Not sure where to go with this one.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-28
<zequence> OvenWerks: Not sure what the best solution is regarding jack1 and jack2 dev files.
<zequence> Including libjack-jackd2-dev seems smart, yes
<zequence> Let's do that.
<OvenWerks> zequence: Added libjack-jackd2-dev to seeds. I guess that means the metas have to be redone?
<zequence> OvenWerks: Yes, but there's no hurry.
<zequence> I'm building the menu in the PPA for wily now into ppa:ubuntustudio-dev/autobuild
<zequence> The build is pending. I'll try it out before I do the upload.
<zequence> OvenWerks: the package should appear in proposed some time soon.
<zequence> Er..
<zequence> Well, it's uploaded anyway. I need to learn more about how the archive works.
<OvenWerks> zequence: It may need some new artwork (the menu) The graphics and audio utilities subs are using the applications-accessories icon right now.
<OvenWerks> But I mostly meant it for first look comments more than anything. We have talked about various things and so I wanted some commants to see if I am going the right direction.
<OvenWerks> zequence: looking at the menu again, I would not be against folding Audio Utilities into the mixer menu or the other way around.
<zequence> exit
<zequence> It's fun when you do two commands in a row, and the first one didn
<zequence> 't succeed.
<zequence> Like coming in a wrong angle into a turn, and you know you'll fly out of the road
<zequence> OvenWerks: I have some ideas for the menu, but it's still too early to make any definite choices about the details
<zequence> We still haven't even started working on the desktop categories
<zequence> Been studying c++ the whole weekend. Suddenly it wasn't all that difficult to get my head around.
<zequence> ..to get my head around it.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Alright, seems like ubuntustudio-menu was updated in the repos
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-27
<Guest53882> Hello everyone. I am an avid user of Ubuntu studio. I would like to help in the development. I know some C and arduino, coded some amount of C++, and java. But I have surface knowledge. I would like to help n ways possible,
<Guest53882> *in
<sakrecoer> zequence: i'll file a ticket asking for krytarik to become admin of the -users ML
<sakrecoer> zequence, krytarik: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=28700
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-28
<sakrecoer> RT answered that krytarik has already been made admin, and should therefor reach out to the current admin for credentials... i don't really understand this answer tbh..
<krytarik> sakrecoer: Yeah, didn't get a password mail - so back to square one..
<zequence> sakrecoer: krytarik is admin for -devel only, not user
<krytarik> zequence: Well, now I am for user too - only without password still.. :P
<zequence> krytarik: Oh. Like an honorary titel, then
<zequence> Sort of like being the Swedish king.
<zequence> I'll check the rt ticket
<sakrecoer> zequence: here is the one i found: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=24366
<sakrecoer> but its from 2014 :D
<sakrecoer> zequence: if you could jump in here maybe: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=28700
<sakrecoer> that is the one i filed yesterday...
<sakrecoer> also, hi guys!
<sakrecoer> :)
<krytarik> Hi sakrecoer.
<zequence> sakrecoer: krytarik: I answered the ticket. Hopefully krytarik or myself will get a new password soon
<sakrecoer> \o/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-29
<krytarik> zequence: Ok, I got a new user ML admin password by email today (as should you).  Want to change it to something that hasn't been sent in plain text yet? :P
<geirdal> I think my questions belong better here!
<geirdal> about categories, why make comlicated, is just eyes(visual) and ears(audio)?
<geirdal> needs alot of IT
<geirdal> video is both
<autumna> geirdal people do make the distinction between graphic (static image) workflow and video (moving image) workflow. In particular, animation and movement is considered a separate skill. (similar to the same way interactivity/game is different from video)
<autumna> I can see your point from a pure perspective, but also I can see the sense to go with skillset distinctions most people go in the industry with. even when there are overlaps
<geirdal> autumna, " skillset distinctions most people go in the industry with" are there alot of companies that use os software?Isnt what we use that matters?
<geirdal> I dont see US is in the interest of proffesional for now.
<OvenWerk1> geirdal: ubuntu is both a blessing and a curse:
<OvenWerk1> on the good side, it is well known and generally solid. There is support for all the desktop stuff by lots of people.
<OvenWerk1> on the bad side, the system settings are not the best for media production. Audio requires a special kernel and some system settings to be a stable platform.
<OvenWerk1> Also, I have heard from both video and graphics people that render times are much better with the cpu in performance mode. It may be possible to set the lower speedlimit higher and allow the machine to run cooler while still doing better than ONDEMAND. (though I see ondemand no longer exists at least on our kernel)
<OvenWerk1> swappiness 10 serves almost all desktop work better than swappiness 60, but CPU/memory work more so.
<OvenWerk1> s/work/intensive work/
<OvenWerk1> ubuntu release schedule is unity based, not artistic release schedule based.
<OvenWerk1> That is we have ended up with a bad version of an application when the fixed one is released just after a ubuntu release.
<OvenWerk1>  Scheduled release is not as good as "when ready"
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-30
<autumna> geirdal: it is more about people knowing what to expect. they will look for "video" not imagine the video tools are listed under '"visual" or "audio" :) 
<sakrecoer> geirdal, i'll try to remember looking up the thread were i had the same proposition as you (audio+visual) so you can read the rock sollid arguments i got against it :)
<sakrecoer> 'i got' as in 'were given to me'
<sakrecoer> on another tone, i dont want to ever read things like 'ubintu studio' isn't suited for profesdional work' ever again in this channel. keep that for offtopic :p
<sakrecoer> and that goes for everyone. 
 * sakrecoer pushes the one-shot sample button that reads 'if we don't believe in our tools, who will?'
<sakrecoer> discuss caveats, improvements, lacks, workflows as much as you want, but those statements will only result in me being triggered and rewinding my 7megaton freesoftware verses
<sakrecoer> :) 
<sakrecoer> also, good morning
<sakrecoer> autumna: i think i've found a good sollution for the screenshots in the feature tour.
<sakrecoer> i'll use geirdal s images and your (autumna) mockup and put together a picture version of the feature tour and then maybe you can bounce back about what is feasible or not..
<sakrecoer> i intend having this ready for display sometime tomorrow...
<autumna> sakrecoer: that sounds good. let me know if you need any help. Sorry I haven't been around to get your draft stuffed into the existing layout
<geirdal> ok I will not mention this for some time now:)
<geirdal> sacrecoer: need anything from me?
<geirdal> Files images or something
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-01
<zequence> krtaylor: Plain text, huh? No, I didn't get one myself, so you are the only admin now AFAIK. Is my information still there?
<zequence> krtaylor: Sorry, wrong nick
<zequence> Ah, krytarik is offline..
<krytarik> zequence: "To: zequence@ubuntu.com, krytarik@tuxgarage.com"
<krytarik> (GPG-encrypted password sent in PM an hour ago.)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-02
<zequence> I'm going to be travelling for about a week, but might pop in now and then.
<sakrephablet> hi guys, my irssi shell is still having a nap, and i got embarked on job interviews that got in the way for those website mockups.. this weekend i'Ã¶l be away, but i read the mailing list and misd y'all
<sakrephablet> hmm... me commands don't work in this phablet client
<set_> weird... someone is logged in as sakrecoer...
<set_> weird... its me.. well same ip anyways... but i don't get from where (sakrephablet was me too...)
<sakrecoer> right :)
<sakrecoer> all good... identified and stuff...
<sakrecoer> so yeah... i'll be back on monday...
<sakrecoer> ...for new adventures ;)
<sakrecoer> have a delicious weekend y'all!
<sakrecoer> super weird... that "other" sakrecoer had a secure connection... i don't from this client... anyways... if i show up and behave liike a jerk, please mail me
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-25
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Haven't tried it yet, but I'll report back. It's a Dell Inspiron 5576 Gaming.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am just looking at this page: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/25776/detecting-headphone-connection-disconnection-in-linux
<OvenWerks> The very last answer is decidedly different from the rest. It talks about using hda-verb to set pin controls rather than using alsamixer to turn speakers off and on.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: http://www.alsa-project.org/hda-analyzer.py looks useful for finding out more info. It is similar to hdajackretask but at a lower level
<OvenWerks> Hmm, I was able to switch my internal HDA to 2/6 i/o
<OvenWerks> Alsamixer seems to do that.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, hdaanalyzer seems to show setting similar to alsamixer
<OvenWerks>  but they don't seem to do anything. That may be (in my case) because the plugs are set to ac97
<OvenWerks> To whoever does our web page :)  someone actually left a comment on http://ubuntustudio.org/2018/06/introducing-the-ubuntu-studio-audio-handbook/ and was horrified that it actually put their plain text email address in rather than their logged in nick
<OvenWerks> On further reflection... if you have to have a launchpad account to comment one could look up the email anyway.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, they would like their email removed... the comment can be removed if that is the easiest/quickest method.
<OvenWerks> Oh... Yuck! the login process to leave a comment is quite a pain. It takes me through at least three screens... one of them twice.
<OvenWerks> I put an email in as well. I have no idea how I would remove that comment... who has moderators authority where to go to use such authority, etc.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Done. I didn't remove the comment, but I did remove any reference to an email address. Login is required, but using an email address to post a comment is not required. In fact, if one is already logged-in to Launchpad it should "just work."
<Eickmeyer> And, unfortunately, there's no way to change the process.
<OvenWerks> Huh, I wonder how that happened then. Oh well. so long as it is fixed. I am guessing this may show up again?
<OvenWerks> Maybe we should not allow comments?
<Eickmeyer> He's the first person to ever have this problem. I look back at the other comments and absolutely nobody other than him used their email address in the comments.
<Eickmeyer> He made a mistake somewhere.
<OvenWerks> BTW, the comments about the handbook in #lad have been less than complementary.
<Eickmeyer> What's their problem?
<OvenWerks> There is a feeling that example plugins should be non-proprietary, that using a windows vst with wine to make it work rather than a lxvst is a mistake... and that some of the info is just wrong.
<OvenWerks> It is true that people should be encouraged to use linux native plugins. There are some very goods one out there both open and proprietary.
<OvenWerks> Using wine to get around this does not scale.
<OvenWerks> (which is why Ardour does not sandbox plugins)
<OvenWerks> my Yf and son want to go berry picking, but there is tyhe darkest, meanest looking rain cloud in the direction they want to go :P
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: of course audio setup will change with the intro of -controls
<Eickmeyer> Well, nobody got paid to do it, so I don't care.
<OvenWerks> :)
 * Eickmeyer is a little grumpy this morning
 * OvenWerks hasn't had time to read through it yet.
<OvenWerks> the comments in #lad were from the 21st so long gone.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: If they're not commenting directly, then obviously the issue isn't that pressing. Besides, as I said, nobody got paid to write it.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: No idea what to do about manpages for Carla.
<Eickmeyer> FalkTX never wrote any.
<OvenWerks> I am not sure if there have to be man pages. But they would not be hard to write.
<OvenWerks> Basically man pages are for commandline parameters and I don't know if Carla has any.
<OvenWerks>  Other than that, just a quick description is all that is needed.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: this one is already probably more wordy than needed: https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/tree/usr/share/man/man1/ubuntustudio-controls.1
<OvenWerks> Y9ou would only need to do a man page for the binary, not the plugins, I think.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I think that's correct.
<Eickmeyer> Right now I'm working on the /usr/lib/pkgconfig issue (it's not allowed)
<OvenWerks>  :)
<Eickmeyer> The other issue is the Epoch number without comment. No clue how to handle that.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: you may or may not be able to.
<OvenWerks> I don't know either
<Eickmeyer> So, just leave it? Won't it get rejected?
<OvenWerks> It is just a "W" (warning) so I think leave it.
<Eickmeyer> Okay, cool.
<Eickmeyer> Looks like the /pkgconfig issue is just a warning too.
<OvenWerks> The "E" ones are the errors.
<Eickmeyer> If that's the case, all of the errors lintian is throwing for me are simply warnings.
<OvenWerks> cool. If the package is just for ubuntu that is ok. I think debian packaging is more picky.
<Eickmeyer> I'd have no problem with it simply being in Universe. Debian would take much more time.
<OvenWerks> There yu go.
<OvenWerks> so not a problem then
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-26
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I went ahead and did a thing: https://launchpad.net/carla
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: cool. So is it going to stay yours or should it belong to ubuntustudio-dev?
<Eickmeyer> I can make it ubuntustudio-dev.
<Eickmeyer> Done.
<OvenWerks> as you wish one way or the other, it just means that if you get tired of it you can have someone else take over.
<Eickmeyer> Yep, true.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: And now, it's in our autobuilds.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I will see about adding a man page. Are we changing the source directly or using a .debian diff thing?
<sakrecoer> hi! 
<sakrecoer> i'm pretty sure i added you tiÃÂ³ the core team Eickmeyer, so you should be able to do everything you need to. I didn't make you owner striahgt away, waiting for returns from the mailing list.
<sakrecoer> Eickmeyer: if you need me to talk to someone, just tell me who and i'll do it in an acceptable span of time.
<sakrecoer> regarding the website backend, i'v never had other access to it than the WP-admin thingy. for anything else, there is this ticket service... i don't have the URL at hand but that's where you file tickets for the WP backend.
<sakrecoer> Eickmeyer: you are part of the core-team, show this to the people you discuss with if they doubt your clearance.
<sakrecoer> to be honnest, i was also handed the keys a bit like "voila"... and i know it's hard to get in some places. but i suppose i'm happy about that: i would not feel comfy about this thing if it was easy.
<sakrecoer> either way, send me an email with whatever it is you want me to do to facilitate transition.
<sakrecoer> I'll be on holliday during all of july so at that point i'll be able to respond very quickly
<sakrecoer> ok, i had failed to give you admin persmission Eickmeyer 
<sakrecoer> i fixed it. PLease don't hesitate to write me personally if you need this kindof assitance. :) <3
<sakrecoer> i'm rarley reading anything public-forum lately, for personal reasons.
<sakrecoer> Eickmeyer: found the URL in my brain somehwere under a rock: https://rt.ubuntu.com/ 
<sakrecoer> this is where you file tickets for the website.
<sakrecoer> my experience shows that being very polite and mindfull is the best way to get things done quickly. Although, for the WP theme thing, last time we tried to adress it, it ended up in a loop of "fix this so we can fix this". which ultimately led to abandon
<sakrecoer> for reference, here is the thread: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=29028
<sakrecoer> hope that helps. And again: do not hesitate to email me to my personal mail if you have any need of assitance. :)
<sakrecoer> Happy Tuesday y'all!
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I've been pulling from the main Github, making changes, then pushing to our repo. So pull from falktx, push to our repo. I can pull from our repo if you make any changes.
<OvenWerks> so it effectively becomes a fork rather than just a package?
<Eickmeyer> Not exactly. More of a branch and rejoin. Git is smart enough not to pull in anything that overwrites what I have done locally.
<Eickmeyer> It treats anything I pull-in from github as a merge.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-30
<sakrecoer> https://twitter.com/dark_shark/status/1007576417297620992
<sakrecoer> brian eno promoting ubuntu studio :) good job y'all!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-24
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it appears that channel count for alsa does not work.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: when I set channels to 4 I get 2, when I set channels to 6, I still get 2
<Eickmeyer> Oof.
<Eickmeyer> I wonder if it's based on the hardware it's targeting?
<OvenWerks> dummy works fine though I can get 6 i/o
<OvenWerks> I am going to try putting the exact number 12/10 i/o and see what it does
<OvenWerks> 12/10 works, 10/10 doesn't
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So are we talking increments of 2?
<OvenWerks> I am pretty sure that 2/2 is not useful enough to worry about and that full or less than full do not make any difference to the cpu used
<OvenWerks> I don't know let me try 5
<OvenWerks> I tried 5/7 on dummy and that works fine
<Eickmeyer> Huh. Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<OvenWerks> so I will have to figure out how to hide that row for anything but dummy
<OvenWerks> (and net, netone when they get added)
<OvenWerks> As you may have noticed, I have fixed the backends problem already.
<Eickmeyer> Seems like it would be similar to graying-out a checkbox, at least in theory.
<OvenWerks> There are only two places it matters, startup and switch master to USB. The second only works with alsa anyway... so only one place.
<OvenWerks> yes it should be. I may need to put that row in a container and hide the container
 * Eickmeyer nods
<OvenWerks> I don't want to do that... because the stuff inside a container may not line up.
<OvenWerks> that would mean three containers... one for the label and one each for in and out
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, less than idea. There has to be a way though.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, first I will remove channel count from alsa and firewire so at least it works
<Eickmeyer> ð
<OvenWerks> Hide() and show() do not work. There is no error but it does do anything
<OvenWerks> I guess set_sensitive(False) will have to do.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: -controls has been built
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'll take a look.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Starting with the dummy backend setting channels to 32 resulted in 2 channels in/out.
<OvenWerks> hmm, I got 32 here
<OvenWerks> Um oh, logout and in... I should have bumped the Vnumber
<Eickmeyer> Oh, k
<Eickmeyer> There we go. That was the expected result.
<OvenWerks> not ready for release
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I can see one issue. I had one i/o pair for Pulse and got two.
<OvenWerks> I am going to add the inputs only for the USB bridge at least.
<OvenWerks> I don't have that here... I did in the past (spelling error) but it should be fixed. Does changing the number of pule bridges up and config then back to one and config fix it?
<Eickmeyer> I switched it to 0 and got 0. Changed it to 1 and got 2.
<OvenWerks> did that here with no problem.
<Eickmeyer> Changed it to 2 and got 4. :S
<OvenWerks> restart jack and try again I think
<OvenWerks> wow
<Eickmeyer> I might try rebooting.
<OvenWerks> That sounds like two autojacks running... shouldn't do that
<Eickmeyer> Rebooting did the trick.
<OvenWerks> when it is ready for release it will kill the old autojack.
<Eickmeyer> Cool.
<teward> Eickmeyer: I can't even tell what dpf-plugins is supposed to be bundling.  ERR: Insufficient Information
<teward> i can ask sil to take a look but...
<teward> chances are, same problem
<OvenWerks> teward: which information is missing? I would think it generates a set of plugins in both lv2 and lxvst formate and probably as a jack client as well
<teward> OvenWerks: just a description of what it does :P
<teward> To be fair
<teward> seth couldn't understand waht the package was supposed to do either :)
<teward> and when that's the case I start headscratching
<OvenWerks> In debian/control?
<teward> oh btw I asked sil2100 to take a look at ubuntustudio-menu-add in NEW
<teward> OvenWerks: just in general, needed more details about what it did before I poked it :p
<teward> and sil indicated they'd take a look if they get any spare cycles
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: with the distro plugins, do we really want to build the LV1 set? Is there any software that actually requires it? I think lmms can use the lxvst or is that wrong?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm just building everything it includes.
<Eickmeyer> teward: In order to run what dpf-plugins generates, it requires an audio plugin host, such as Carla, or a DAW such as Ardour.
<Eickmeyer> Anybody that knows what an audio plugin does knows what it requires. Same as calf-plugins and lsp-plugins.
<OvenWerks> or even jack
<Eickmeyer> That too.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Description in bug 1829562 updated.
<ubottu> bug 1829562 in Ubuntu Studio "[Needs Packaging] DPF-Plugins for Eoan" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829562
<Eickmeyer> sarnold: ^
<teward> Eickmeyer: ack.  but we were wondering what the package was *doing* :P
<teward> so :P
<OvenWerks> doing?
<Eickmeyer> doing?
<teward> i'm currently working with Laney on debugging Chromium issues which're causing Selenium crash failures on kopano-webapp which is blocking NGINX
<teward> as in what it was supposed to be packaging ;)
<teward> is it creating the plugins or just including them
<teward> FYI I'm dead tired today :p
<teward> 10 coffees doesn't help
<Eickmeyer> It compiles the plugins, and then puts them where they belong (/usr/lib/lv2, /usr/lib/vst, etc...)
<Eickmeyer> teward needs a vacation.
<teward> ack
<OvenWerks> it packages audio plugins used to modifi or produce sound used digital audio workstaions and effect racks for live audio work
<teward> Eickmeyer: OvenWerks: there be a good news for ubuntustudio-menu-add
<teward> you can thank sil2100
<Eickmeyer> teward: Saw that. 
<Eickmeyer> I'll be adding it to our seed soon.
<teward> Eickmeyer: sil2100 also said they'd ack the binaries once they show up so you should be good then once that's bulit and accepted and lands :)
<Eickmeyer> Sweet. :)
<Eickmeyer> teward: Thanks for all your help.
<teward> yep.
<teward> all i did was sponsor it but :p
<Eickmeyer> teward: That's more than a lot of people can say.
<teward> :P
<teward> well I sponsored it and kicked things around but :p
<Eickmeyer> Well, my biggest frustration has been getting motus or core-devs to help us at all, so you have no idea how much value you have. :)
<teward> well MOTUs and Core Devs are all busy xD
<teward> but there's some things I still won't poke :P
<teward> like DKMS related things
<teward> or Kernel related things
<teward> or anything that's chaos xD
<Eickmeyer> teward: I don't blame you. I guess the problem then is that we need more MOTUs and Core Devs.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Opinions? https://github.com/Houston4444/RaySession
<teward> I think the problem is most MOTUs/CoreDev are busy with their own project interests and niches
<teward> or are busy because Canonical.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I would almost ask are session managers even a thing any more?
<OvenWerks> but that is me being too close to the Ardour team
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Well, they seem to be a thing, and there's a thread on the calf-plugins github talking about needing to support NSM.
<OvenWerks> I have not heard anything about this on LAU or LAD
<OvenWerks> Where people ask what session manager to use
<OvenWerks> Yeah NSM is the only thing people suggest any more and nsm or non-anything is hard to package
<OvenWerks> so if this does the same job and is easier to package...
<Eickmeyer> Well, tbh, Ardour is such a complete solution that it really eliminates the need for a session manager. Yet some people have them in their workflows.
<Eickmeyer> I might give it a shot.
<Eickmeyer> After all, ladish is dead for all intents and purposes.
<OvenWerks> Yeah people still do the hydrogen thing because Ardour does not have a paternbased editer
<OvenWerks> I haven't heard anyone using Ardour-Qtrackor in a long time. most people seem to have gone with one or the other
<Eickmeyer> Looks like this thing is completely qt5, so no ntk stuff like nsm.
<OvenWerks> no reason to use ntk
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. No idea why the non stuff is so locked into their own toolkit.
<OvenWerks> history
<OvenWerks> they started with fltk
<OvenWerks> fltk is not really suited to audio GUIs so NTK is an extension
<OvenWerks> I actually like fltk
<Eickmeyer> Looks like someone already packaged it in a PPA, so I guess I could rob that and clean it. https://launchpad.net/~houston44/+archive/ubuntu/raysession/+packages
<OvenWerks> however, people have found that both NTK and FLTK do not work well for plugins even though they tend to be static compile
<OvenWerks> good, lash is pretty much dead. I think falktx is removing it from his tools
<teward> Eickmeyer: surprised you never asked Simon to sponsor :P
<teward> they've got access xD
<Eickmeyer> teward: He's too busy much of the time, even though I've done most of the up-front work.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Though, now that he's out of school for the summer, that shouldn't be much of a problem.
<studiobot> <teward001> yep, that sounds like @tsimonq2 :P
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer probably relevant... https://blog.ubuntu.com/2019/06/24/statement-on-32-bit-i386-packages-for-ubuntu-19-10-and-20-04-lts
<Eickmeyer> Holy influence, batman! (RE: first sentence)
<Eickmeyer> Well, looks like my email had some effect.
<OvenWerks> wine is probably the big one. Most linux stuff comes with source packages that can be compiled either way but some of the older windows binaries that have just worked for years will never get updated. (like hulls.exe)
<Eickmeyer> RE: raysession: OMG this package is dirty. Ew. Cleanup shall ensue.
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer more likely not your email but WINE and Steam had more impact
<studiobot> <teward001> I did also ask Mark to weigh in behind the scenes too but
<studiobot> <teward001> that's me just being chaotic :P
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Hehe
<Eickmeyer> http://ubuntustudio.org/2019/06/regarding-ubuntus-statement-on-32-bit-i386-packages/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-25
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: re headphones...
<OvenWerks> I have two computers to work from, One is a lap top but does not have separate level controls for speakers and headphones, It seems the jack physically switches and so it works fine even with jack in control of the device
<OvenWerks> This computer does have separate level controls (Phones and front) but... the case is old enough that the jacks are AC97 compliant and do not have plug detection :)
<OvenWerks> So plugging in a set of phones is not detected :P
<OvenWerks> That is problem one... hard to test here.
<OvenWerks> problem two: there is not a dbus signal it seems. Rather this is done by acpi
<OvenWerks> I was thinking that this would mean system as there is a directory in /etc where scripts can be put to act on acpi events
<OvenWerks> however, I am now thinking tha if I can run acpi_listen without sudo then I should be able to see events from userland
 * OvenWerks is looking at https://github.com/ltworf/python-acpi/blob/master/acpi.py
<OvenWerks> this is user space. The relevent code is lines 119-121 to initialize and then the while (1) loop lines 146 and 147 (the stuff below that is not import to us as ours will be different.
<OvenWerks> Problems with this, there is no sleep() in the while loop. That would use a lot of cpu unless... the socket read is blocking
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Maybe it's a state in /proc?
<OvenWerks> That would mean threading to do that :(  and once I do that, I have a loop running anyway and it may as well look through files every once in a while.
<OvenWerks> lets see.
<OvenWerks> The only mention of phone is the alsa level and mute
<OvenWerks> I am looking in /proc/asound/PCH/
<Eickmeyer> teward, tsimonq2, sarnold: Could any of you tell me what I'm doing wrong? I can't get lintian-overrides to take: https://code.launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/+git/raysession
<sarnold> Eickmeyer: I think I'd try removing the 
<sarnold> sigh stupid new keyboard I'm still getting used to it
<Eickmeyer> hehe
<sarnold> " #python3 " kinds of things
<Eickmeyer> Huh. Having that worked before in Carla, but I'll give it a go.
<sarnold> oh. bummer. that was my only guess :)
<Eickmeyer> Well, as I look at the docs, it says it's not necessary, but I think it was recognized as a comment on the same line. Either way, Giving it a shot.
<Eickmeyer> sarnold: Nope, didn't work.
<sarnold> :(
<sarnold> thanks for reporting back
<sarnold> it'
<sarnold> s probasbly best that didn't do the job, though. heh
<Eickmeyer> sarnold: All good, and yes, you're right. If it had worked, that means that comment parsing was bad in lintian.
<sarnold> yeah :)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: looking more closely at /proc/asound/PCH/codec, it apears the information _is_ there but it is different for each machine. On my machine it seems to be two entries for "HP", one for mic and one for "out"
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Then how on earth does ALSA detect and automute? There's an option in alsamixer that tells it whether or not to auto mute the speakers if headphones are detected. Maybe it's something even lower-level?
<OvenWerks> using acpi even to send a dbus message seems the best idea.
<Eickmeyer> Must be.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am sure there is some rhym and reason to it.
<OvenWerks> if acpi can figure it out, it must be standrd somehow
<OvenWerks> Basically, from what I can tell, one of the many lines of "Pin-ctls: 0x00:" changes it's number
<OvenWerks> huh, funny the things one finds looking for other things. Turns out my master volume has been turned down to half for months (years?)
<Eickmeyer> Haha
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I just got done packaging and testing raysession, it's on its way into autobuilds now. Great alternative to ladish when paired with patchage or carla.
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: You are damn crazy with the number of things needing sponsored now lol
<studiobot> <teward001> I just got the flood of 20 emails to sponsors xD
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I was told to package as much as possible to get practice in to get access to the ubuntustudio package kit.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> *set
<studiobot> <teward001> ah indeed.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @tsimonq2 told me I didn't have enough experience, so this is me getting experience.
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> @Eickmeyer [@tsimonq2 told me I didn't have enough experience, so this is me getting experie â¦], This is true.
<studiobot> <teward001> well I may or may not poke the packages at my convenience
<studiobot> <teward001> and then tear you new ones lol
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> hehe
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 The flood of emails you just got was actually me removing ubuntustudio as "being affected by" since those were old, old requests.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Like, several years B.E.
<studiobot> <teward001> ah heh
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> As i look at the sponsorship queue, I have two new packages and an SRU, and one that I merely assisted with getting the process started.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> (one of which @tsimonq2 reset the time-in-queue on, which shoved it to the back of the line after having been in the queue for OVER A MONTH) ð¡
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: good. How does it show on the menu? (reysession)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It shows in multimedia for now, but we can throw it in anywhere using ubuntustudio-menu.
<Eickmeyer> I'd need to add it in the seed and drop ladish.
<OvenWerks> Sorry, that was not what I meant Eickmeyer. I was meaning does the way it is named in the menu make it obvous what it is?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yes.
<OvenWerks>  When you say multimedia do you mean media playback?
<Eickmeyer> Yes.
 * Eickmeyer needs to reboot
<OvenWerks> Eww
<OvenWerks> k
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: when you are back... I have an idea about menus.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It looks like it showed-up in "Audio Production" without modification. 
<Eickmeyer> Annnd... go for idea.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: we have been forcing applications into certain places with hard coding. In the long run this is not good. It does not let the user move an application with menu add for one. and it does not deal with new apps
<OvenWerks> My though is to take the same apps that we move with the config file and give then an overriding desktop file
<Eickmeyer> That's actually a great idea, but how do we prevent apps that aren't installed from showing?
<OvenWerks> Hmm, this would work for our xfce sessions
<OvenWerks> it may not work for Studio on top of. Could though.
<OvenWerks> that would be a question for sure
<Eickmeyer> Honestly, I think making some way to parse/edit what -menu does is the best way. There could be a way to do it on a per-user basis.
<OvenWerks> We would almost have to have a script that added them and removed them... needs thought
<OvenWerks> per user goes in .local/share/applications/
<OvenWerks> system overrides go in /usr/share/ubuntustudio/applications/
<Eickmeyer> Yes, but again, we're running the risk of items showing that aren't actually installed.
<OvenWerks> a script on startup that goes through the whole bunch checking if the executable exists and adds NOSHOW=True to those it can't find
<Eickmeyer> That would mean it'd have to run as root.
<Eickmeyer> So, a systemd service.
<OvenWerks> Yup, not controled by the user
<Eickmeyer> How much boot time would be impacted, do you think?
<OvenWerks> The idea is half baked at best at this point. Just a quick idea I just thought of. Needs much rounding out so probably post 19.10
<OvenWerks> boot time should not be impacted at all as systemd runs things in parallel
<Eickmeyer> Ok.
<OvenWerks> It just has to depend on all file systems mounted
<Eickmeyer> Which means multi-user.target, I think.
<OvenWerks> There is a target for all file systems mounted (not sure what it is called)
<OvenWerks> but mutiuser would work. The menus do a quick look through all the *.desktop locations every time they are opened so the time should not be that bad.
<OvenWerks> First check for changes ... mtime on the directory file should cover everything in the directory.
<sarnold> except changes to files
<OvenWerks> I think we are looking for added or rermoved files in the directory.
<OvenWerks> not that it matters at this point, too  much else to work on this cycle.
<sarnold> heh, I'm familiar with that..
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-26
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: With the forums being pretty much dead, I'm changing the forum link in the menu to a link to askubuntu.com since that's where preferred support is anymore.
<studiobot> <teward001> fun fact
<studiobot> <teward001> I am a mod on Ask Ubuntu too
<studiobot> <teward001> I do a lot of things *evil grin*
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Ruh roh
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> @Eickmeyer [(one of which @tsimonq2 reset the time-in-queue on, which shoved it to the back â¦], I comb through the sponsorship queue pretty quickly tho
<teward> and I still chew you out when you step on something i'm working on @tsimonq2 lol
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> @teward [<teward> and I still chew you out when you step on something i'm working on @tsi â¦], GET ON THE CALENDAR
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> ð
<studiobot> <teward001> ***HAIL GLORIOUS LEADER SABDFL***
<studiobot> <teward001> *shot*
<studiobot> <teward001> @tsimonq2 ERR: No Calendar Write ACcess
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> @teward001 [@tsimonq2 ERR: No Calendar Write ACcess], Err: requested you did not
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> (Document) http://studiobot.ericheickmeyer.com:9090/05Gpdvrp/file_58.mp4
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> Give me a Google email in this public channel :P
<Eickmeyer> Build failure is due to an upstream bug in apt-xapian-index.
<studiobot> <teward001> which is orphaned
<studiobot> <teward001> it's actually traced back to apt python stuff 1.9 i think
<studiobot> <teward001> but still
<OvenWerks> bummer, apt-xapian-index makes synaptic much nicer to use... and there is no software installer worth while since synaptic.
<studiobot> <teward001> well unless someone wants to pick up apt-xapian-index and maintain it in Debian too... ð
<OvenWerks> Except the kde muon.
<OvenWerks> Ya I know, we all have only so many hours. The gnome software installer is nice enough to look at... if only it passed questions the package asked back to the user. And warned the user when some package they asked to be installed was going to remove half their system...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-27
<teward> Eickmeyer: alive?
<Eickmeyer> teward: That depends on the definition.
<teward> lol
<teward> Eickmeyer: what's the underlying language of dpf-plugins' plugins?  Are they C or something?
<teward> just curious because i'm going throguh analysis and a tool i have for code analysis couldn't instantly determine
<OvenWerks> teward: there may be some plugins that are c and some c++
<Eickmeyer> teward: Looks to be mostly C++.
<Eickmeyer> The framework is in C++, so probably all of them are C++.
<OvenWerks> some of the dsp may be c
<Eickmeyer> True
<teward> Eickmeyer: sarnold: there's some toctou risks and potential code injection risks, but i take it these plugins are from an upstream source
<teward> and not your own doing :P
<Eickmeyer> teward: That's correct. Also, they require a host to run.
<Eickmeyer> Such as Carla, or a full-fledged DAW like Ardour.
<teward> i'm not doing runtime tests :P
<teward> i'm doing static code analysis :P
<teward> hence TOCTOU risks (Time of Check, Time of Use)
<teward> your packaging descriptions in debian/control need work for the project
<teward> dpf-plugins as is is fine
<teward> -common should probably state the same first one but not LIST all the plugins and say it contains files common to all plugins
<teward> individual plugins should say it contains that specific plugin
<teward> rather than have the same descriptor
<teward> even if you provide the same list, you should indicate more specifically what each built binary provides independently
<teward> and then your changelog targets UNRELEASED again
<Eickmeyer> teward: Sorry, that was an oversight on that last bit.
<Eickmeyer> (the target)
<OvenWerks> I believe each package contains the same set of plugins in differetn formats (for different hosts)
<teward> OvenWerks: are you absolutely certain about that?
<Eickmeyer> teward: OvenWerks is 100% correct.
<OvenWerks> There is a lv2 package, a lxvst package a ladspa package and a jack client package
<teward> difference between ladspa and lv2 then would be ladspa hosts vs. lv2 hosts.
<teward> ack
<Eickmeyer> teward: Not necessarily. Carla (and Ardour) can handle them all.
<Eickmeyer> However, LMMS can only handle ladspa.
<teward> LMMS = ?  (I'm tired and haven't eaten dinner yet, woke up from an after work nap hungry and grumpy)
<Eickmeyer> !info lmms
<ubottu> lmms (source: lmms): Linux Multimedia Studio. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.3-8.1ubuntu1 (disco), package size 4663 kB, installed size 12698 kB
<teward> ack
<OvenWerks> however, ladspa does not have an included GUI
<teward> then...
<teward> what does the bare dsp-plugins package provide vs. the subpackages that it all requires?
<teward> or is it a metapackage that installs all 'flavors' of the plugins?
<Eickmeyer> teward: The bare is just a meta.
<teward> Eickmeyer: which does what?  Installs all flavors of the plugins?
<teward> for all potential 'hosts' and packaging types?
<Eickmeyer> teward: yes. Hence, the dep on all of the other plugins and the listing of all of the formats.
<teward> (of how the plugins're packaged)
<Eickmeyer> teward: Yes.
<teward> and -common provides...?
<teward> general underlying requisites for *any* of the flavors, yes?
<Eickmeyer> teward: Yes.
<Eickmeyer> Also, pushed fix to changelog, retagged.
<Eickmeyer> teward: With that knowledge, do you need me to fix the debian/control file?
<teward> standby i'm writing up documentation
<teward> because it shows a papertrail of me DOING shit :P
<teward> and taking a page from rbasak's suggestions on how to handle sponsor-needed things that're minor issues rather than hard rejection
<teward> uploaded to new after my requests :)
<Eickmeyer> \o/
 * OvenWerks is now a video editor...
<OvenWerks> I went to my son's award cerimony... took some (not very good) video clips.
<OvenWerks> used open shot to clip to time and assemble. rendered... FF showed no sound but VLC and xine were fine
<Eickmeyer> FF has codec issues.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: -menu-add now in the seed, should appear in tomorrow's daily.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Also, new plymouth theme, update to grub2-themes-ubuntustudio, and fixes to missing icons in the "Ubuntu Studio Information" submenu uploaded to eoan, should also land in tomorrow's daily.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-28
 * teward throws Eickmeyer under the bus in -release
<Eickmeyer> teward: I saw that! Dang, man! I mentioned it once and that's a "nag"?
 * teward is just trying to make it more important for AAs to look at :P
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: https://github.com/VCVRack/Rack/pull/1406
<Eickmeyer> Could use a +1 at the least.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I suspect it may get forked at some point with the original becoming less relevant
<OvenWerks> I get the sense this dev is not someone to listen to other devs for whatever reason
<OvenWerks> Getting messages frompackagers who wish to add his application as a package to their distro is not the same as a "customer" who says: "having to download every time there is an update and reinstall is a pain in the neck, how come you don't suppy debian (put distro name here) packages?"
<OvenWerks> Or "how come I can't get this on my distro SW installer?"
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, a little tragic, really. If that's the case, then I'll just have to explain to people that want this in Ubuntu that the developer is uncooperative.
<OvenWerks> Actually, give them a line to add to his as an issue
<OvenWerks> Like get them to say: "I like this software, but it is a pain to install, can you make a ubuntu package?"
<OvenWerks> When he says "I don't package" or something like that, then it is time to say: " the distro devs say you won't take PRs to make it packagable."
<OvenWerks> Then: "never mind, there is a fork that does it right..."
<Eickmeyer> Well, they don't have to package. They just need to create a viable source tarball, which is all that PR does. Seems as if they have NBH syndrome.
<OvenWerks> Very much so
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-29
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Looks like it's not going to happen. This guy's attitude sucks. (RE: VCVRack)
<OvenWerks> Like I said, it would take a fork that made the original irrelevant
<sarnold> it certainly looks like there's enthusiasm in the linux community for such a thing
<sarnold> but if there's specialized coding that would suffer for being in a fork, that'd probably be enough to keep it from going anywhere
<sarnold> if it's more of a maintenance modeproject, well, maybe it wouldn't matter as much
<OvenWerks> sarnold: It would take someone with DSP knowledge, but really, the GUI is pretty much what makes it "secial"
<OvenWerks> s/secial/special/
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Looks like falktx has already started to fork it.
<teward> depends where it is :P
<teward> oops wrong window
 * teward kicks the Internet
<teward> disregard me sorry
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-22
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Any opinions on bug 1884472? 
<ubottu> bug 1884472 in ubuntustudio-controls (Ubuntu) "a2jmidid checkbox do not work correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884472
<OvenWerks> I suspect qjackctl had been run before controls or before upgrading the os.
<OvenWerks> I say this because neither of us have had this problem with fresh install.
<OvenWerks> however, I will add something that forces midi to none in controls.... I suppose we could force all settings to something sane. (even back to default)
<OvenWerks> For example qjackctl also sets port maximum to 256 instead of default (2048)
<OvenWerks> that made sense when memory was often 500Mb, but everyone is past 2Gb by now even over 10 year old machines
<OvenWerks> I suspose we could just delete ~/.config/jack/conf.xml just before starting jackdbus. (which would overwrite the file anyway.
<OvenWerks> So killall -9 jackd jackdbus, then rm ~/.config/jack/conf.xml, then start setting jackdbus to start.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Could you write something to that effect in the bug report?
<OvenWerks> ok
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: looking at my version of the same file, it only includes things that have been changed away from default. So the fact that this person even found that midi was set to raw proves it was not default. Removing that file seems the best thing so that other things don't crop up. I was already unsetting input device and output device so that using device will work as expected
<OvenWerks> But I realize a user who has been using some other jack starter may have put who knows what junk in there and rather than setting _everything_ sanely, rm the file and start from default.
<OvenWerks> This person upgraded from 19.10 where qjackctl was in plain view to 20.04 where qjackctl is hidden and -controls is in plain view :)
<OvenWerks> upgrade from 19.10 to 20.04 will not reset that file. as I noted in the bug report.
<OvenWerks> yes, qjackctl sets both input and output devices every time even if they are the same device.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: should studio-controls have an install script in the repo?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: like make install or something?
<OvenWerks> Does that make it harder or easier to package?
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: I was considering just writing a simple "install.sh" script for you. It would be a good idea for more distros, and make things easier for Fedora, but I don't know if that would have any more advantages over what we already have.
<Eickmeyer[m]> A makefile would be super universal, though.
<OvenWerks> I am noticing that the build of mcpdisp it uses the install
<OvenWerks> so is sh
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yep, that seems about right.
<OvenWerks> -controls is linux specific... dbus/logind/systemd for that matter
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yep.
<OvenWerks> ok, if you are writing a tool to do that.... I have other things to do
<Eickmeyer[m]> Sure, that would be a pretty easy thing for me to write.
<OvenWerks> I am looking at what I did in Ardour and about to change it again :P
<Eickmeyer[m]> Just a simple install.sh would do the trick.
<OvenWerks> Hmm, It would be nice to have the install script so I couold work on things without hand copying everything. but I also already have three or four files not in master :)
<OvenWerks> I can't test on this machine (18.04 32 bit) anyway. so I will maybe hand install downstairs tomorow.
<OvenWerks> I think I am almost done the Ardour patch. Once I patched it one place I realize I have another to do almost the same. Then I realized it is not quite right anyway.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oof, hate it when that happens.
<OvenWerks> basically, I realized that the pan type can change after feedback is set up so I have to monitor pan type and remove monitoring of any controls not in use. Like width. (this all started with someone wanting width feedback)
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ohhhhh, dang.
<Eickmeyer[m]> So, complete rewrite then?
 * Eickmeyer[m] needs to head to bed.
<OvenWerks> night
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: the indicator we use for audio that assume does the kb vol+/- as well. Is there a setup for that? is there a way we can move what device it controls?
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: In Plasma, it always controls the default PulseAudio device. In Xfce, I think it's the same, but in that case it's a plugin as opposed to in Plasma where it's part of the system.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-23
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Jack Mixer still has a Python 2 dependency, unfortunately. fpconst is Python 2 only and is dead upstream.
<OvenWerks> give it time, the current maintainer seems intent on making it up to date.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, I screwed up. I was looking at the wrong INSTALL file. It doesn't need it.
<OvenWerks> fixed one bug in Ardour... one to go... well no three to go.
<OvenWerks> two moer showed up
<veremitz> 99-little bugs .. ;)
<astraljava> :D
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> I think all three are related
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward: Reintroducing jack-mixer into the repos. Was dropped for focal, but it someone adopted it and made it GTK3 and Python3: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/jackmixer/+git/jack-mixer
<Eickmeyer[m]> Had to do some packaging gymnastics with it, but it works.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: are we going to get that in backports for 20.04?
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Only if it lands in Groovy. Needs to go through the package approval process all over again.
<OvenWerks> makes sense
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-24
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: wrt -controls. so far the git repo is laid out in the directories each file will end up in. This was done because of a direct relationship from source to finished deb package. In consideration no longer being tied to deb packaging should this change?
<OvenWerks> Is there a better way?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I see no reason for it to change.
<OvenWerks> ok
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: so an install shell could just do cp -a usr / kinds of things?
<OvenWerks> or cp -a ./usr/* /usr/
<OvenWerks> or does it need to copy each file individually?
<Eickmeyer> ^That.
<Eickmeyer> Nope, shouldn't in an install script. Now an uninstall script, that's different.
<Eickmeyer> We *should* have some sort of uninstall script.
<Eickmeyer> But that's just for non-packaged environments.
<Eickmeyer> For Fedora, Ubuntu/Debian, and even openSUSE we're good. I think for Arch too.
<OvenWerks> my problem is that I think I have headphone detect ready to go... but I still have us-c installed
<Eickmeyer> Oh. Gotcha.
<OvenWerks> I need to be able to uninstall one and install the other
<Eickmeyer> Well, I could upload it into a temporary PPA if you'd like.
<OvenWerks> I will push then
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<OvenWerks> I need it from 20.04
<Eickmeyer> Ok.
<OvenWerks> pushed
<Eickmeyer> Ok, I've got the transitional package uploading.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Uhh... got anything for your changelog?
<OvenWerks> sorry... oh someone has changed it's format :)
<Eickmeyer> :P
<Eickmeyer> I did that because I can straight copy-paste it.
<OvenWerks> pushed with new changelog (and .gitignore)
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<Eickmeyer> Ok, tagged and pushed back.
<Eickmeyer> (because I need the pristine tar)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Everything is building in lp:ubuntustudio-dev/studio-controls-staging.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I don't seem to be able to get to that page... I do see: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ubuntu/autobuild/+packages
<OvenWerks> and it says it is built
<OvenWerks> and published
<OvenWerks> but there is no deb
<OvenWerks> there is an amd64 icon on the far right and when I click on it it goes to: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ubuntu/autobuild/+build/19503879
<OvenWerks> this page says "Needs building"? when the other part says it was already buit successfully... I guess I am confused. Anyway I will wait for the 26 minutes and see if that changes
<OvenWerks> There is no hurry at this point as my wife will leve for work in an hour or so which means I will not be close to my dev machine until she goes.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: You're in the wrong place.
<Eickmeyer> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ubuntu/studio-controls-staging/+packages
<Eickmeyer> I didn't upload it to autobuilds.
<Eickmeyer> I did a manual staging repo.
<Eickmeyer> Reason: Autobuilds have a lower priority.
<Eickmeyer> And the builders are super busy today for some reason.
<Eickmeyer> Either way, this will be closer to an *actual* package.
<Eickmeyer> You should just do this: "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntustudio-dev/studio-controls-staging && sudo apt upgrade"
<OvenWerks> Thankyou. I thought I might be in the wrong place, but that was all I could find.... google doesn't understand lp: and neither does my browser
<Eickmeyer> Nope, lp simply means https://launchpad.net/ in Ubuntu speak.
<OvenWerks> All good.
<Eickmeyer> Let me know if you want to release this or not, we can simply make it 2.0.0 and upload to backports and groovy.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: when I do an apt install studio-controls it says it wants to remove: ubuntustudio-branding-common ubuntustudio-controls ubuntustudio-installer ubuntustudio-menu ubuntustudio-menu-add
<Eickmeyer> That's very odd.
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I know why.
<Eickmeyer> Do you have the backports PPA enabled?
<Eickmeyer> If not, enable it.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it is because my 20.04 is kubuntu with installer
<OvenWerks> us-c is a dep
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I changed that in the version of installer in the backports.
<Eickmeyer> I think.
<Eickmeyer> Oh nope, I'm wrong. I'll add it to the studio-controls-staging ppa. Hang tight.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: New version of Installer building in studio-controls-staging
<Eickmeyer> This is good because it's like a dry run of backporting.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It's published. update&upgrade
<OvenWerks> thanks
<OvenWerks> I can start testing now.
<OvenWerks> If you are going to backport studio-controls, US-menu will have to go with it. studio-controls is in settinigs rather than audio. This is fine for me though, so long as I knwo where it is.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: for studio over other flavour, it would be nice to be able to remove the generic kernel
<OvenWerks> I don't know if that would remove the whole flavour though :P
<OvenWerks> and like most users, I don't know which actual packages to remove :)
<OvenWerks> It is not a problem with space but it does mean twice as much download bandwidth every time the kernel updates. (and time as well)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: dumb question. When packaging, if a file is +x will it install that way?
<OvenWerks> (first problem I found: new file is not +x )
<OvenWerks> it wasn't in git and not when installed :P
<OvenWerks> fixed in local git and autojack gets headphone plug/unplug signal. \o/
<OvenWerks> but doesn't do anything yet.
 * OvenWerks starts adding debug statements
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-25
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: All files keep attributes.
<Eickmeyer> I've already backported -menu.
<OvenWerks> but chnage ownership.
<Eickmeyer> Yes, ownership does change.
<OvenWerks> it appears that I have made the dropdowns in the GUI but do not fill them :)
<OvenWerks> I think I have done a lot fo the work in autojack but not in the GUI
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<OvenWerks> so long as jack master is PCH, headphone switching works
<OvenWerks> (on my system) Right now I have only mute moviung from phones to "front" but I will make it levels as well and include "speaker" too.
<OvenWerks> enough for today, my wife is home.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Based on the *extremely long* support conversation you had, does that mean there's something that needs to be fixed in studio-controls?
<OvenWerks> it appears
<Eickmeyer> Which begs the question: what needs to be fixed? zita?
<OvenWerks> no
<OvenWerks> I can start zita in a terminal just fine
<OvenWerks> I have already made some changes (PCH is limited to 128 and above HDMI is set hard to 4096)
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: redkite needs a new upload at your earliest convenience.
<OvenWerks> But I will need to add some debug statements to see what it is trying to run
<Eickmeyer> Gotcha.
<OvenWerks> I suspect it is missing a int to string conversion
