#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-07
<ball> brb
<ball> Ah poo.  I was watching Doctor who and YouTube only seems to have the first half of Cave of Skulls.
<ball> I'll have to buy it on DVD
<directhex> cave of skulls?
<directhex> -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 353M 2007-06-10 06:46 /data/Media/Video/Series/Doctor Who/01 - William Hartnell/Season 01/Doctor Who 01x01 An Unearthly Child/Doctor Who 01x01 The Cave of Skulls [Part 2].avi
<Azelphur> ball: http://pastebin.com/cKM8j7nn :D
<ball> Nice.
<ball> YES!  Ubuntu appears to be booting.
<terran> :O
<terran> Ubuntu? BOOTING?
<terran> On a COMPUTER?!
 * ball nods
<ball> Took me all day.
<maco> anyone done the freebsd trick and put ubuntu on a toaster yet?
<ball> maco: That was NetBSD
<maco> whoops
<ball> Pants. Now I can't find the checkbox I'm looking for.
<ball> There's supposed to be a checkbox that lets me share a wireless connection to computers on a wired network
<AlanBell> morning all
 * AlanBell waves http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/ about
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> MooDoo: http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/
<AlanBell> you know you want to
<MooDoo> AlanBell: darn you :)  done.
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning
<dutchie> AlanBell: can you not use the data off launchpad for the map?
<dwatkins> Good morning all
<MooDoo> morning dwatkins
 * dwatkins looks at ethernet shields for the Arduino and wonders about IPv6
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> Morning all
<DJones> AlanBell: Seem to be getting a fair few people on the interactive map now
<wintellect> Mornin all
<MooDoo> morning
<JamesTait> Hello, $NAME! Happy $DAY_OF_WEEK!
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HelloInsertNameHere
 * tugrik grins at JamesTait 
<JamesTait> What can I say? I got bored with "Morning all! every day.
<DJones> Aww, that spoils it
<screen-x> morning :)
<nigelb> morning folks
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: Having fun post debian release? ;)
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: all sources.lists contained "lenny" \o/
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: so no broken build chroots
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: WIN \O/
<popey> Morning!
<dwatkins> yo popey
<nigelb> hey popey
<bigcalm> Morning kids :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<bigcalm> Hi czajkowski :)
<DJones> Morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> hows you bigcalm
<livingdaylight> greyday
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: windy here
<livingdaylight> yes, and wet
<livingdaylight> anyone know what an param file is?
<livingdaylight> http://www.renegadehealth.com/ghd/blog/ in Chrome is throwing up embed param file: missing when I try to play the video
<DJones> livingdaylight: Don't know what the file is, but the site works fine for me in Chrome on Windows, the video plays with no problem
<popey> ditto
<livingdaylight> DJones, thanks... maybe i should add that I'm using Chrome on Ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: YGM 8-)
<DJones> livingdaylight: I was assuming that :)
<livingdaylight> just opened FF and it seems to be working now. I don't know what is up with my chrome
<livingdaylight> DJones, :)
<popey> \o/
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: YHM
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
 * bigcalm throws 155 quid at a new tax disc
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: thanks for that, something to look forward to!
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Indeed - I had completely forgotten about it until AlanBell reminded me on our way back on the tube after beer and curry.
<s-fox> Hello.
<popey> hi
 * DJones should pinch the nick "silver fox" because of all his gray hair
<TheOpenSourcerer> very amusing crawling by MS: https://twitter.com/#!/opensourcerer/statuses/34564036225925120
<s-fox> Hi popey ,  how are you doing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I used to work with a bloke we nicknamed the silver-fox, and another we called the Italian Swordsman.
<s-fox> Interesting
<s-fox> =)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hello ivanka - Good to meet you last week.
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: I can guess the reason for the silve fox nick, but don't want to contemplate the why
<popey> s-fox: tickety boo!
<DJones> why of the other one
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<X3N> how did the opensource expo go?
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: yes. Don't go there. Just use your imagination. ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> X3N: Do you mean the cloud expo?
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: I'd rather not thanks
 * s-fox now follows TheOpenSourcerer on twitter
<TheOpenSourcerer> \o/
<X3N> TheOpenSourcerer: so it was mainly cloud stuff?
 * TheOpenSourcerer now follows s-fox in twitter
<s-fox> Yay
<s-fox> =)
<TheOpenSourcerer> X3N: Yep.
<s-fox> Is anyone else on twitter in here that I should be following?  I'm terrible for finding people ;)  lol
 * screen-x is on twitter, but never tweets.. 
<DJones> screen-x: Same here
<TheOpenSourcerer> We were on the .org pavilion. The show itself though was rather quiet... I think a lot of visitors came for the presentations rather than the exhibition.
<brobostigon> mtr, cheers popey :)
<popey> np
<screen-x> what's the role of fe80 ipv6 addresses, as there are enough addresses for everything to have a public address?
<screen-x> I thought it might be just for auto conf, if no router is present, but when I isntalled radvd, it required my ethernet interface to have an fe80/link local address.
<DJones> s-fox: This one is probably worth following http://twitter.com/#!/uupc
<TheOpenSourcerer> s-fox: That is a *lot* of custard... http://serial-coder.co.uk/blog/2011/01/sunday-night-cake/
<s-fox> lol TheOpenSourcerer ,  I was very very ill and I wanted something to cheer me up ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> That'd work :-D
<s-fox> Thanks for the link DJones  :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> or kill you completely.
<popey> hmm, ssh to my server just hangs
<s-fox> kill or cure is the best way TheOpenSourcerer
<popey> i can ping it but ssh just sits there
<DJones> s-fox: That looks wonderful, the sort of thing for a cold day
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/563793/
<popey> suggestions?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Tried from a different client machine?
<popey> ah, good point
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just a thought.
<screen-x> popey: do you have another session on that machine, where you can read auth.log from?
<popey> same from another machine
<popey> no screen-x
<popey> its at home I am at work
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> I was ssh'ed into it from putty on windows last night
<s-fox> o/ davmor2
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning
<popey> it had a pvmove running overnight, and now I just can't get to it at all, but like I say, ping works
<popey> ooo, just remembered it has webmin
<davmor2> no czajkowski I see to busy scoffing waffles
<davmor2> morning MooDoo
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: http://fixunix.com/ssh/74058-ssh-hang-after-ssh2_msg_kexinit-sent.html (Talk of MTU)
<popey> hmmm
<popey> guess I'll just have to wait till I get home
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.security.ssh/browse_thread/thread/996059b8cae76932?pli=1 Discussion about putty and key formats...
 * s-fox adds self to this - http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we 
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - The page at http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/ says: Please fill all the required fields! (They are)
<popey> #blamebell
<MartijnVdS> #blamealan
<s-fox> I added myself, but can't see a pin :(
<s-fox> #blamebell
 * s-fox tries again
<TheOpenSourcerer> I had to click the "Place your pin link" first. But 1. You can't place it as it isn't there yet. 2. It is not a "required field"
<s-fox> How do you place the pin? Just click on the map?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah - I seem to have covered AlanBell 's pin completely.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you're that big? :P
 * brobostigon crosses his fingers, major updates to debian sid,
<MartijnVdS> </harsh>
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<s-fox> "Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though youâve already said that!"
<s-fox> :(
<gord> what are you supposed to put in the Description field?
<popey> I AM GOD!
<TheOpenSourcerer> gord: A description perhaps?
<popey> ^ that
<gord> a description of what precisely?
 * s-fox just copied twitter about me bit, nice and short ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> gord: erm you probably.
<gord> oh really? don't need another place that has a description of me that will become outdated fast ;) will just link to launchpad
<nigelb> gord: just use javascript to pull from launchpad api :p
<s-fox> *sigh, give up.  Broken :(
<nigelb> s-fox: #blamealan ;)
<nigelb> Only there are like 3 alans in here
<davmor2> popey: It's Elvis people worship I know it might be hard for you to distinguish between the 2 but Elvis is the dead one ;)  #popey_is_mortal_after_all
<nigelb> davmor2: hahahahaha, good one
<czajkowski> davmor2: eh no in Brussels in hotel going through mail
<czajkowski> I am all waffled out
<davmor2> popey: sorry I couldn't resist :D
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski then blames her for virgin's area wide internet issues :P
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
 * MooDoo waits for his turn with open arms.....oi czajkowski 
 * davmor2 races over and hugs MooDoo 
<MooDoo> davmor2: that'll do :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer shuts up and runs away to get moar coffee (and possibly a biscuit or two)
 * czajkowski hugs TheOpenSourcerer 
 * screen-x adds himself to the map
<daubers> Ooooh biscuits would be good
<screen-x> \o/ biscuits
<screen-x> and hi daubers :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> 2 digestives :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: How was Belgium?
<czajkowski> pretty good
<czajkowski> some great talks
<czajkowski> met a lotta people I talk to via twitter so was good to put face to names tbh
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: "Belgium, man" - http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Belgium
<TheOpenSourcerer> Watch Ireland nearly lose in Rome?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<czajkowski> dear gods I was in a talk and having to get scores
<czajkowski> frustrating as hell
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Video of the Week: Weirdest ad of all time& - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/02/video-of-the-week-weirdest-ad-of-all-time/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Best Superbowl Ads - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/02/best-superbowl-ads/
<s-fox> Well that isn't too bad,  launched new system and it has taken over an hour for a bug to be found. Even better is that I found it, not the userbase.  /me fixes quickly and pretends it never existed ;)
<nigelb> s-fox: oooh, nice :)
<s-fox> Fix is in place,  testing.
<brobostigon> phew, no breakkage after sid upgrade, :)
<popey> i did like the Motorola Xoom superbowl ad
<bigcalm> The Xoom does look interesting
 * czajkowski hugs MooDoo, don't want him feeling left out
<MooDoo> czajkowski: don't worry i know you don't love me as much as davmor2 :p
<czajkowski> MooDoo: he's had to deal with me since LRL
<czajkowski> :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: poor bugger :)
<czajkowski> indeed
<davmor2> czajkowski: to be fair so have you :P
<czajkowski> exactly
<davmor2> czajkowski: did you try maverick/lucid on your dell in the end or did you bury it in the back garden?
<czajkowski> went to brussels
<czajkowski> laptop is now in london wiht threats of fedora being installed on it
<davmor2> czajkowski: :D still won't work :P
<czajkowski> no idea....
<czajkowski> I'm blanking that conversaion out
<MooDoo> oi fedora is good too :p
<MooDoo> ok ok ignore i said that
<davmor2> MooDoo: Her netbook looks to be on it's way out :(   Which is why I say fedora won't work :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i knew that ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: maybe you could fed-ex it to MooDoo and we not allow him to go out drinking till he's fixed it :D
<czajkowski> eh no
<davmor2> hahaha
<MooDoo> davmor2: easy peasy :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: ps don't look at my irc cloak ;)
<s-fox> Fixed that bug nigelb ,  it was a little more tricky than I thought. lol
<davmor2> czajkowski: you're too nice woman where's the old czajkowski that would of said great plan and sent it immediately
<davmor2> MooDoo: Nice cloak :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: full of waffles chocolate na ddetoxing of beer
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's coz i'm a <stop listening everyone> a fedora ambassador/mentor as well :p </ok everyone can listen again>
<gord> waffles n chocolate n beer \o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: Error at  <stop listing everyone> everyone stopped listening
<czajkowski> gord: pretty juch sums up my entire weekend
<davmor2> czajkowski: how did your talk go?
<czajkowski> ok :s
<czajkowski> spoke too fast
<gord> pretty good weekend, but its gonna take a week to get over that ;)
<czajkowski> I know I speak fast
<czajkowski> turns out I can speak even faster
<kazade> presentations and interviews do that to me too... why is that?
<screen-x> kazade: nerves
<nigelb> s-fox: the kind of bug that no one notices are the best :-P
<kazade> during our evolution what possible advantage would speaking faster be when put under pressure? :)
<screen-x> most people have some sort of tick that they display when nervous.
<kazade> I can hardly imagine a caveman quickly talking down a Sabre Toothed Tiger or something
<kazade> running faster I get..
<davmor2> czajkowski: no surely not you speak to fast :P
<andylockran> heya
<andylockran> man, that was a tough cycle in this morning.  Got blown backwards up a hill.
<czajkowski> :(
<andylockran> not looking forward to the cycle home :)
<dogmatic69> suns shining here
<davmor2> andylockran: why you shouldn't need to peddle once just don't hit the front brake, it's not the speed that kills you, it's the stopping :D
<andylockran> davmor2: it was the sideswipe into the middle of the road I was most concerned about
<davmor2> andylockran: nice makes sure there is a bus beside you they come in useful sometimesw :)
<davmor2> -w
<andylockran> :p
<andylockran> anyone help me out.  I have a Logitech keyboard with an extra button :) it's the opposite of / on the left of my z key
<andylockran> however, whenever I press it, it zooms the display
<ali1234> what do you mean "extra"?
<ali1234> i thought all UK keyboards had that
<andylockran> hmm, maybe
<DJones> andylockran: My keyboard has that key as well
<andylockran> hmm,
<shauno> bottom row should have \ at one end and / at the other.  for pinball :)
<shauno> never understood how USian keyboards managed without that
<Baikonur> my button left to the z has <, > and |
<directhex> andylockran, backslash zooms?
<DJones> shauno: Now you've said that about pinball I don't think I've ever had a keyboard with a "\" key next to the "Z" key
<directhex> andylockran, sounds like weirdness from compiz
<s-fox> Time for lunch, back later
<andylockran> ta ra
<cps> afternoon
<brobostigon> afternoonings cps :)
<cps> hey brobostigon how's you? :)
<brobostigon> cps: not bad, back and hip pain but good. and you?
<cps> I'm okay :)
<cps> might reformat later today
<alexM90> hello, everybody!
<cps> hey alexM90 :)
<brobostigon> cps: why ?
<alexM90> does anybody know a good python tutorial for programers? I mean I have some C++ and Java experience
<cps> brobostigon: it's been playing up a lot lately; keeps crashing every hour or so
<brobostigon> cps: not good,
<davmor2> alexM90: Yeap there are plenty on the python.org I recommend dive into python too
<alexM90> cheers davmor2
<shauno> DJones: no? it shares the pipe key on every (pc) keyboard I've had; ala http://store.aramedia.com/shopimages/products/normal/kb-englishukwhite.jpg
<shauno> beside each shift key is a paddle key for pinball :)
<DJones> shauno: I was agreeing with you, every keyboard I've had has that key
<shauno> ah, musta misread
<DJones> It was when you mentioned pinball that reminded me, its always those two keys for the flippers
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> MOOO!
<gord> oh dear, davmor2 is mooing now
<gord> not a good sign
<directhex> oink
<davmor2> gord: tired of going around in circle with python api tests :)  Needed to let off steam and the channel was quiet as czajkowski isn't around :D
<danfish>  davmor2 - she's on her way back and has got a brand new whalloping stick with extra whallop ;)
<davmor2> danfish: Don't believe you :P
<DJones> She's from Ireland, I'm sure there's a stock of Shillelagh's to hand
<davmor2> DJones: she can not harm me my wings are like a shield of steel, well their attached to the get away plane so I hope they are :D
<danfish> davmor2: this is the one http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/images/s343.jpg :D
<DJones> danfish: That looks painful
<danfish> DJones: yes, being hit around the head with that may well chafe somewhat
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I made a bit of a mess
<danfish> wot happened?
<pr0ph3t> I installed chrome os and grub on the mbr but ubuntu is not an option on the grub menu, now I am trying to put an iso image of ubuntu on a usb drive so I can boot into it and reinstall grub etc
<pr0ph3t> I used the command sudo dd if=image of=device is that a good way to solve the problem?
<pr0ph3t> sorry I used dd if=./imagename of=/device
<pr0ph3t> looks like it's done
<dwatkins> I suggest using unetbootin to make a bootable USB installer
<pr0ph3t> dwatkins: thanks for the tip
<pr0ph3t> I'm not even sure this is actually chrome os I'm running now
<dwatkins> welcome
<dwatkins> you can't tell what OS you're running?
<pr0ph3t> looks more like openSUSE to me
<pr0ph3t> it's definitely based on openSUSE
<pr0ph3t> brb hopefully
<Azelphur> this Â£100 android phone I bought for my mum seems quite spiffy, even with all of oranges bloatware
<Azelphur> I'm gonna remove all the crap with a custom rom and tidy it up, I reckon it's got potential :)
<MooDoo> Azelphur: which phone?
<Azelphur> Orange San Francisco / ZTE Blade, it's Â£100 from orange/amazon atm
<MooDoo> cool
<davmor2> Azelphur: it's quite easy to root it and loose the orange bloatware too :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> davmor2: have you done it? maybe you can point me in better directions, I'm no doubt working from old instructions
<Azelphur> I'm still kinda vague on what rom to flash and how to root it
<davmor2> http://androidforums.com/san-francisco-all-things-root/230099-guide-flashing-your-orange-san-francisco-zte-blade-custom-rom.html#post1952386  I haven't someone from the lug has though
<davmor2> Azelphur: ^
<Azelphur> davmor2: nice
<Azelphur> I probably have newer phone though, I bought it new
 * Azelphur checks build number
<Azelphur> yea, I got B08
<Azelphur> so that's no good for me :(
<Azelphur> davmor2: wow...that's cheap -.-
<Azelphur> the B08 has less RAM too
<Azelphur> I might send it back, that's crappy
<lazarus_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/563934/
<screen-x> lazarus_: I'd move the file its winging about out the way, then apt-get update
<Azelphur> davmor2: oh no it's ok, I do indeed have the 512MB model that's ok :p
<Azelphur> but still B08 so that rom won't work :(
<davmor2> Azelphur: the rooting process should still be the same though
<lazarus_> screen-x: how would i do that
<Azelphur> davmor2: just fastboot clockwork right?
<screen-x> lazarus_:  sudo mv /var/lib/apt/lists/gb.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_maverick_main_binary-amd64_Packages ~; sudo apt-get update
<davmor2> Azelphur: again no idea a friend worked through it to get it to work for them
<Azelphur> hehe
<lazarus_> screen-x: http://paste.ubuntu.com/563945/
<screen-x> lazarus_: you got that after moving the file out the way and updating?
<lazarus_> mhm
<screen-x> are you using a package proxy?
<lazarus_> noo....
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> hey all
<lazarus_> HazRPG: hey
<HazRPG> lazarus_: :) hey
<screen-x> lazarus_: you could remove all the lists in /var/lib/apt/lists, then try apt-get update.
<lazarus_> screen-x: how lol
<brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
<screen-x> lazarus_: sudo rm /var/lib/apt/lists/*
<screen-x> lazarus_: then when you apt-get update, those files will be recreated.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: afternoon :)
<andylockran> howdy
<bigcalm> Morning
<Pendulum> bigcalm: a little late for that, isn't it?
<bigcalm> ;)
<screen-x> bigcalm: long night of minecraft?
<brobostigon> is the awake time, in the new android 2.3 battery measure graph thingie, the same as the wake time in spare parts?
<bigcalm> screen-x: I've been weaning myself off of the crack
<lazarus_> screen-x: thanks
 * bigcalm ponders what to make for dinner
<bigcalm> Pasta bake is tempting
<screen-x> bigcalm: curry!
<dogmatic69> pizza
<bigcalm> We had pizza yesterday
<screen-x> actually I do quite like pasta bake :)
<bigcalm> Tinned chicken corma and brown rice. That's also possible
<screen-x> and pasta bake is within my very small remit :)
<bigcalm> Making do with what's in the house is us trying to be sensible
<bigcalm> Have a table booked at a local balti house for the 14th though
<screen-x> To find ip address from mac address, I should use rarp? however rarp -a returns "This kernel does not support RARP", any other ways?
<ormiret> screen-x: ask your DHCP server?
<screen-x> ormiret: grep -i -B6 $MAC </var/lib/dhcp3/dhcpd.leases   should have thought of that :)
<Jibadeeha> was just trying alpha 2 of unity ... quite like it .. reminds me of windowmaker with that dock
<Jibadeeha> alpha 2 of ubuntu that is
<popey> 5/93
<popey> bah
<screen-x> "From February 15 you will need to be a subscriber to listen to Last.fm Radio stations on devices, including your Last.fm iPhone / iPod Touch app."     <----      /o\
<screen-x> popey: that's not a great score :-/
 * screen-x deletes last.fm app
<dwatkins> Why, screen-x - I'm curious as to your reason.
<screen-x> dwatkins: ^3
<dwatkins> I assume it's the requirement for registration, but what's wrong with that?
<screen-x> subscriber = Â£Â£
<screen-x> <-- cheapskate
<dwatkins> oh paid, gotcha
<DJones> dwatkins: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/07/lastfm_mobile_subscriptions/
<screen-x> Basically last.fm are becoming more spotifyish, without letting you listen to exactly what you want to.
<screen-x> I was wondering how last.fm were paying for all my streaming though :p
<dwatkins> that's not so good
<dwatkins> yeah, me too
<screen-x> last.fm even have audio adverts now.
<dwatkins> I listen to soma.fm mostly.
<screen-x> heh, "mission control", I'll have to try listening to that :)
<dwatkins> Sadly philosomatika closed even though I bought 3 t-shirts.
<screen-x> dwatkins: unfortunately freeloaders always outway paying people (/me being one of them :-/)
<dwatkins> Yeah, I like Mission Control for background 'music' at work so I don't have to listen to others
<dwatkins> I don't mind occasional adverts on netradio
<Baikonur> i haven't actually listened any other soma fm radio but suburbs of goa
<Baikonur> even though i listen to that quite a lot
<dwatkins> I like trance
<MartijnVdS> No problems here.. but I was already a paying member for last.fm :)
<MartijnVdS> also, last.fm works in my Linux clients
<MartijnVdS> spotify is more expensive and I need wine
<AlanBell> evening peeps
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> MartijnVdS: you dont need wine if you pay
<MartijnVdS> popey: only if you pay enough
<popey> lo AlanBell
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you could always do what I do,  Find an internet radio station that is free and plays the music you're interested in?  or buy music and listen to that :D
<popey> i thought the linux client worked on all pay accounts
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: yeah, that's what I do
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://3voor12.vpro.nl/luisterpaal/ ("steal" some Dutch public broadcasting money :))
<MartijnVdS> popey: "meh" :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I listen to my own music or I like absolute radio 80's which is available in a mad selection of formats including ogg vorbis and flac
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: yeah, I can get it from my sat card as well :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: and on virgin cable too :)  and on freeview too I think
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: still, I watch BBC HD from the Netherlands, the least you could do is listen to Dutch public broadcasting from the UK :P
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: But that's cause the bbc is good right ;)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: so is the VPRO
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VPRO
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: the word religious put me off :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: they aren't anymore
<MartijnVdS> haven't been since the mid-60s
<davmor2> :D  I'm not being blagged by that line ;)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: if you want religious TV in the Netherlands, go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelische_Omroep
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: No that's just it I don't :D
<MartijnVdS> ^ those people edited the bits refering to evolution out of some Attenborough documentaries
<pr0ph3t> so there, we can't try out chrome os anymore?
<pr0ph3t> only comes on their hardware
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: you can try to get one of those laptops
<jono`> anyone have a uk phone number that i could send a quick sms test to? :)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, they are only for US residents
<Azelphur> jono`: sure
<Azelphur> jono`: pm'd number
<jono`> thx!
<pr0ph3t> I tried it though and it's just openSUSE with chrome web browser installed basically, doesn't even boot that fast
<pr0ph3t> but I guess it's not the version that will be installed on the laptops
<moreati> jono`: +447790816339
<MartijnVdS> moreati: added to spamlist
<pr0ph3t> lol
<jono`> heh, thank moreati, ill privmsg you :)
<brobostigon> moreati: thats maybe not such a good idea ina publiclly logged channel, with the possibilitly o allsorts of people  bing inhere.
<moreati> Oh, I only scaned for digits, didn't see Azelphur's. Sorry
<Azelphur> hehe :P
<davmor2> jono`: do you need any more or is that enough?
<jono`> sure, third times a charm :)
<jono`> thanks for everyones help
<jono`> #ubuntu-uk++ :)
<moreati> brobostigon: I don't hide my email address or tel number. A dumb idea maybe, but a concious decision. So far not too much SMS spam, and gmail deals with email spam
<brobostigon> moreati: ok, fair enough, but i wouldnt do it, myself.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you don't have to ;)
<MartijnVdS> you can always get a new phone number if it gets out of hand
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: never had to do that,because i am careful whoi give my number to.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's less bother, agreed :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very, lessbother. :)
<pr0ph3t> how do I sync a folder on ubuntu one? basically I need those files on the cloud
<pr0ph3t> running ubuntu 10.10 64bit
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: in the file browser, right-click -> share?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: or right-click -> ubuntu one
<X3N> you will need to have setup your ubuntu one account first though via Preferences > Ubuntu one
<davmor2> pr0ph3t: do you have an ubuntuone account?
<pr0ph3t> X3N, I have the account already
<pr0ph3t> yes davmor2
<davmor2> pr0ph3t: do you see a folder called Ubuntu One?
<davmor2> in you home folder
<popey> brobostigon: I have had the same number since 1995 and get pretty much no spam calls/texts
<popey> and my number is well known
 * popey suspects MartijnVdS has it :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: I do
<MartijnVdS> I even remember where I got it ;)
<brobostigon> popey: you're lucky then i think,
<maco> most of the calls i get from people i dont know are from my dad's friends who dont realise it hasnt been his number in nearly a decade
<MartijnVdS> I've had my number for about.. 8 years
<pr0ph3t> have you guys tried the natty alpha 2 then?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: I'm running natty atm
<DJones> One way of reducing spam calls would be to register with the TPS
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, with unity or the classic desktop?
<MartijnVdS> classic
<davmor2> I have a nice mix of natty, maverick and lucid, windows etc at the moment
 * MartijnVdS plays with Google Fusion Tables a bit
<pr0ph3t> sudo apt-get upgrade -d?
<davmor2> pr0ph3t: update-manager -d
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: no, and if you don't know where to find how to do it, you shouldn't be running alphas :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: ^
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: (things WILL break in natty, be warned :))
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, too late
<pr0ph3t> davmor2, thanks
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: No get it right pr0ph3t things keep breaking in natty
<MartijnVdS> natty has been the most unstable dev version since jaunty for me
<pr0ph3t> davmor2, I was running alpha 1 up to a couple of weeks ago
<pr0ph3t> and by the way I am positively shocked by the new chromium web apps
<davmor2> pr0ph3t: in that case you just need to do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Yeah but for go reason apparently :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: it's bad when you have to revert kernels in order to get your wifi to work though, the new atheros driver adds some functionality that hasn't been used by atheros so the driver simply fails to work :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: the whole indicator thing feels unstable
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: so does compiz
<MartijnVdS> and when I change/fix my keyboard layout, gnome-settings-daemon crashes and everything reverts to some "Default" gtk theme
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: the magic of unity --reset is the most used command in my history
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, does the panel start more than one nm-applet etc?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: sometimes
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: sometimes not
<pr0ph3t> I had that a lot
<pr0ph3t> the keyboard problem as well for a while
<pr0ph3t> compiz was really cool with all the new stuff though
<pr0ph3t> although some things didn't work
<pr0ph3t> animations settings did not start
<lazarus_> From February 15 you will need to be a subscriber to listen to Last.fm Radio stations on devices, including your Last.fm Android app. jsuk
<MartijnVdS> \o/ already paying customer (because radio won't work at all in .nl otherwise)
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> lo
<bigcalm> Morning
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: afternoon :)
<TOSDroid> Eveni.g all
<dogmatic69> could anyone point me to the best way to run spotify?
<dogmatic69> the site has some info, but for debian... should i just use that?
<dogmatic69> or the nasty windows one...
<brobostigon> i do believe you canrun the windows version straight out, inside wine, without issue nor difficulty,
<HazRPG> lazarus_: no way! :(
<HazRPG> gonna miss last.fm :(
<mgdm> there's a linux version that works for me
<lazarus_> HazRPG: yea
<popey> dogmatic69: if you are a paying spotify customer you can use the linux version, if not you use windows version in wine
<mgdm> Oooh, yes. I forgot, I pay for it. :)
<dogmatic69> popey: ah, just read the fine print...
<popey> ditto
<jacobw> is there an irc channel for bytemark hosting?
<dogmatic69> ok, so new question... how do i use wine :D
 * jacobw is clueless about DNS
<MartijnVdS> time to learn :)
<mgdm> jacobw: what's your question? I know enough to get by
<jacobw> I assume I need a static IP to point a DNS record at?
<Baikonur> dogmatic69: red with meats, white with fish or veggies
<dogmatic69> ah... thats what i been doing wrong
<jacobw> i'm ordering a vm with the intention of using it to serve a webpage at a domain that i've registered
<MartijnVdS> the vm will get a static IP
<MartijnVdS> so point your records at that
<MartijnVdS> start $web_server
<MartijnVdS> done!
<jacobw> :)
 * jacobw wades through the order form
<mgdm> jacobw: yeah, that'll do it
<aphrek> hi all
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Hardware vexation - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/133674.html
<dutchie> mmmmm, beer
<dutchie> this is exactly what i need atm
<TOSDroid> Horizon is quite gruesome tonight... About car crashes and how to improve things.
<aphrek> not a barrel of laughs then..
<bjb_> clear
<bjb_> irssi
<dogmatic69> a friends fb account just got hacked and chat was sending out random chats.... to bad im using ubuntu :)
<dogmatic69> some exe download
<Jibadeeha> TOSDroid, what do they suggest to improve things
<TOSDroid> Jibadeeha: various: Medical, psychological, technical... Volvo quite well represented.
<TOSDroid> It will be on the iy
<TOSDroid> Iplayer shortly
<Jibadeeha> TOSDroid, great will watch that
<aphrek> the battery staus has disappeared from my menu - any ideas on how to get it back?
<Baikonur> this might mean increased battery life
<Baikonur> to infinity
<dutchie> aphrek: system -> preferences -> power manager, then check the "notification area" bit on the "General" tab
<Baikonur> quite unlikely, though
<aphrek> lol
<aphrek> dutchie - it's set to always show an icon..?
<dutchie> do you have any other icons there?
<aphrek> pressed make default & no success. Also tried to set 'never display icon' and then back to always show - still no luck..
<dutchie> e.g. the messaging menu, which looks like an envelope
<aphrek> yes- system status, wifi, time etc..
<dutchie> and volume control?
<aphrek> no - thats not there
<dutchie> the wifi and time live in different panel applets
<dutchie> so you are missing the indicator applet
<dutchie> right click on the panel, and choose add to panel
<aphrek> aha, thanks!
<dutchie> scroll down or search and choose "indicator applet" (not "indicator applet session"
<dutchie> )
<aphrek> sorted - thank you
<dutchie> no problem
<aphrek> not sure how I lost that. Though I must say I looked through the applets & it's not completely obvious
<dutchie> no, it isn't really
<aphrek> anyhow - must dash thanks all, esp dutchie
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-08
<Myrtti> my irc is broken, all my channels have been quiet for 15 minutes
<MartijnVdS> ssh! this is a test :)
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> http://www.google.com/ is looking fancy today
<UndiFineD> AlanBell: when you go down it shows 2 narwhals
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
<danfish> Morning Alian OverLord ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> very good danfish very good.
<nigelb> danfish: whoah that was a good one
<danfish> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://twitter.com/#!/opensourcerer/statuses/34884070668238848
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time to go and get ready. Laterz all.
<danfish> that's a bit of a fail - on better (and older) news http://font.ubuntu.com/web/  <-- is very easy to implement
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, the Google FAPI works well, but your font needs to be one in their repo.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ttfn
<dwatkins> Hi folks :)
<cps> morning gentlepeeps :)
<cps> ergh, debian 6.0 has been downloading for the best part of 5 hours now
<DJones> Morning everybody
<cps> hey DJones :)
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> Hi cps daubers
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: your link 404s
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Get rid of the extra %20 :)
<MartijnVdS> dial :)
<MartijnVdS> fial*
<cps> fail*
 * daubers has to drive to London again today :(
 * DJones feels sorry for daubers 
<DJones> I hate driving in any city centre
 * cps likes to take the train everywhere
<daubers> Thought I could get away on the train, but have to take 5 storage units with me
<cps> and anything else that happens to go on rails
<DJones> I find trains never go where I actually want/have to go to in a reasonable & cost effective way
<DJones> When I changed jobs, I looked at getting the train & found I'd need to get 2 trains, it'd take 2 hours travelling time each way, I'd need to be up 2 hours earlier to get to work on time and it would cost Â£15+ per day.  Driving takes 45 minutes each way and costs about Â£5.50 per day
 * jpds just cycles around London.
<DJones> jpds: What sort of distance do you cycle per day
<DJones> Great exercise, but I don't like cycling when its wet
<jpds> DJones: 14 miles according to Google.
<nigelb> jpds: *jealous*
<cps> nigelb: haha
<DJones> Sounds good, I have a 30 mile drive each way for work
<cps> DJones: I dislike cycling when it's wet as well
<jpds> Takes me about 40 minutes, either way.
<DJones> jpds: Thats quite a good pace to keep up on a regular basis
 * popey drives 30 miles each way to work
<popey> i think
<popey> morning btw
<jpds> popey: Moin.
<nigelb> morning popey
<popey> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=FQ-yDgMdlkX0_yk7diSEwip0SDGqNq3it-vKNA%3BFQKJEgMdzrn4_ynJbdHVLGl2SDEFz_jqcIckUQ&q=gu14+to+uxbridge&aq=&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.066575,36.870117&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=10&saddr=gu14&daddr=uxbridge
<popey> that journey (pretty much)
<nigelb> popey: did you find time to make that ice melting video from all your webcam photos? :)
<popey> heh yeah, you asked me that, i made it and it wasnt interesting..
<nigelb> aww
<popey> http://popey.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc
<popey> see
<DJones> popey: How long does that take, mine is 45 minutes for the same distance, but I'm guessing the roads could be a bit less congested up here
 * nigelb looks
<cps> morning popey
<popey> DJones: depends on time of day. anywhere between 40 and 90 mins
<popey> lo cps
<popey> choo choo
<cps> o/
<DJones> popey: Sounds about right
<nigelb> popey: wow, its nice :)
<dreamer_> help
<dreamer_> ME
<dreamer_> ID
<Myrtti> er right
<DJones> dreamer_: You need to tell the channel what the problem is other wise nobody will know what the problem is
<dreamer_> Well I am quite new to the IRC system so I am trying to find my way around :}
<screen-x> morning :)
<JamesTait> Bonjour, mes amis.
<dogmatic69> anyone ever got osx in a vm on ubuntu?
<selinuxium> Morning all   o/
<selinuxium> Hey AlanBell, you about?
<selinuxium> *tumbleweed*
<czajkowski> Aloha
<dwatkins> everyone's playing minecraft or installing OSX in virtual machines, clearly ;)
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: I'm curious to try that now
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: :D
<dogmatic69> everyone in the office has mac's except me... not that im complaining.
<dogmatic69> just want to install it so i can back-up my claims that it sucks
<dwatkins> I'm surrounded by Mac users also
<dwatkins> I think it's superb, best laptop I ever had.
<dogmatic69> na
<selinuxium> hey czajkowski  o/
<dogmatic69> most over priced laptop you ever had
<selinuxium> dwatkins, lol
<dwatkins> Depends how you count the cost.
<dogmatic69> like for like, cpu/ram/etc
<selinuxium> Anyone wanting an almost mint eeePC?
<dwatkins> I'd say a well built machine with a solid operating system which gets regular updates and security fixes is worth paying a little more for than a plastic laptop running an os full of holes.
<czajkowski> selinuxium: howdy
<dwatkins> selinuxium: what model?
<selinuxium> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ASUS-eeePC-701-BLUETOOTH-8-GB-SD-CAR-CHARGER-/200573660804?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item2eb31f2e84
<czajkowski> there is a cute 3 month old baby at my desk
<dwatkins> hehe, I used to have a 701 :D
<selinuxium> A friend of mine is listing it, so I can vouch for it's condition...
<selinuxium> If I had spare dollars I might of got it myself..
<dwatkins> The battery life on the newer Eee models is outstanding.
<dwatkins> I really like the 701 for being small and the first model, though
<selinuxium> I have my eye on the mini mixing desk...
<MartijnVdS> selinuxium: so you can make little mixes?
<selinuxium> Any of you guys use the Eclipse IDE?
<MartijnVdS> selinuxium: I tried to use it yesterday, but it still hasn't finished loading.
<selinuxium> MartijnVdS, So I can make my neighbours happy by mixing the guitar outs into some headphones for me and my flat mate... :)
<selinuxium> MartijnVdS, lol. I have installed it and it seems quite snappy atm...
<selinuxium> I have used it in the past and it was slow....
<MartijnVdS> wait until you load a big code base into it
<selinuxium> MartijnVdS, Probably not going to happen with me tbh..  Just small personal projects..
<selinuxium> Want to use the Aptana integration into Android and other Phone app development... Probably will be a whim for a while...
 * MartijnVdS has done some android stuff (very very minor) just using the command line tools
<selinuxium> MartijnVdS, Do you use any IDE? I have not done any serious code for 4 years now, and then I used Bluefish...
<dogmatic69> does anyone know offhand the name of the volume adjuster in shell thingy... started with an 'a' iirc
<selinuxium> alsamixer?
<MartijnVdS> selinuxium: I use vim with some small vimrc tricks
<MartijnVdS> selinuxium: and bash :)
<dogmatic69> selinuxium: thanks, that is the one
<selinuxium> dogmatic69, np  :)
<screen-x> ooh my otherself seems to have joined the future
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: they call you "the doctor"?
<davmor2> morning all
<nigelb> morning davmor2
<dogmatic69> o/
<davmor2> morning nigelb
<davmor2> czajkowski: Welcome Back to the home land :P
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> odd chap
<jpds> czajkowski: s/odd/old/
<czajkowski> true
<czajkowski> :p
<jpds> I'll have my tea on the veranda.
<s-fox> Good morning UK
<davmor2> czajkowski: you got the nerve to call me odd with jpds last comment
<jpds> davmor2: It's very relaxing.
<jerkman> hi everyone
<davmor2> jpds: What tea on the veranda or being odd :P
<jpds> davmor2: Yes.
<davmor2> haha
<knighwise> morning everyone
<BigRedS> Good morning!
 * BigRedS notes his dist-upgrade wants to break everything :(
<BigRedS> where 'everything' = 'apache/phpfcgi'
<dwatkins> Pro tip: keep your blu-tack warm by placing it next to the air vent of your laptop
<knighwise> hahaha :) installing 10.10 on an old imac over here
<knighwise> might be a little bit too much for the little bugger
<BigRedS> Does 10.10 come in ppc?
<knighwise> yep
<knighwise> there is a flavor out there
<BigRedS> ah, not an official port?
<screen-x> I'm never quite sure of the status of the ppc port, it is on  cdimage.ubuntu.com
<BigRedS> Ahh
<BigRedS> I remember it being like that a while ago, too. ISTR someone saying that canonical still did it, but don't support it
 * screen-x hands knighwise a spare 't'
<knighwise> a spare T ?
<MartijnVdS> knighwise: knightwise
<BigRedS> to become knigh*t*wise
<gord> ppc builds, no one checks that it works ;)
<BigRedS> Ahhhh. I like that sort of port :)
<siya> any bash wizzards out there?
<siya> am struggling w the following
<screen-x> MartijnVdS put's on his coat and bash wizard hat
<siya> rsync -va --progress VirtualBox/HardDisks/pfSense-1.2.3*.vmdk "/mnt/backup/SYSTEM/wk10/VDI"
<siya> that works but the source path may at some point in the script have spaces in it
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: No that's Bloodninja
<siya> as such it should be >> rsync -va --progress "VirtualBox/HardDisks/pfSense-1.2.3*.vmdk" "/mnt/backup/SYSTEM/wk10/VDI"
<siya> However the * doesn't get expanded with the double quotes
<siya> so I'm confused... :(
<MartijnVdS> siya: that's what quotes are for :)
<siya> hehe, I thought single quotes means things don't get expanded
<MartijnVdS> single quotes means $VARIABLES don't get expanded
<siya> so how do I deal w spaces w/o parsing * as a mere character
<siya> MartijnVdS, ah...!
<MartijnVdS> siya: by temporarily re-setting $IFS.. but * expansion should be "safe"
<MartijnVdS> (i.e. "foo*" might expand to properly escaped foo\ bar\ baz
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: doesn't seem to here, is there a shopt for that?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: in a directory with files with spaces in the name, try this:
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: for x in *; do echo "---$x---"; done
<MartijnVdS> that should work properly
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/564393/
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: yes, that's good: it expands to one file name at a time, and properly treats each file as a single thing
<screen-x> for some reason I was expecting to see the spaces escaped
<screen-x> but I guess that example does do what you would want it to do in a script.
<siya> MartijnVdS, resetting $IFS on a terminal doesn't seem to make any difference
<MartijnVdS> siya: it does in special cases
<siya> though for a script, I'm reasoning that if it doesn't work on my bash terminal it won't in the script
<siya> MartijnVdS, you're telling me I'm not special. I'll take that as a compliment :)
<siya> hmmm, it seems that my script works fine w spaces if I don't use quotes... :)
<siya> So for now all appears good, thnx guys
 * siya goes for lunch
<knightwise> hey guyz , for a system with a PIII 600mhz chip and 512 megs of ram
<knightwise> whats the best GUI ? g
<knightwise> it still needs to support dropbox and a screensaver that displays pictures
<knightwise> thats about all it needs to do in fact
<BigRedS> openbox?
<knightwise> lxde any good ?
<BigRedS> I've never used it, but people do keep talking about it
<popey> i have used crunchbang on that spec pc
<popey> worked nicely
<X3N> film recommendations? need to fill up my lovefilm list again..
<davmor2> X3N: what kind of films do you like?
<BigRedS> Madagascar!
<knightwise> DA FOOSA
<BigRedS> All hail the giant pansies!
<screen-x> BigRedS: I enjoyed Madagascar :)
<BigRedS> I've a reputation for watching it rather too much :)
<X3N> davmor2: good ones
<screen-x> BigRedS: there are multiples sequels now?
<BigRedS> at least one
<BigRedS> and a couple of christmas specials
<screen-x> ahh
<popey> X3N: http://www.listal.com/list/imdb-top-250-movies
<knightwise> all hail king ..whathisname
<screen-x> X3N: cancel lovefilm, create a minecraft youtube playlist.
<popey> use someone elses list :)
<popey> hah
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone,
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> afternoonings knightwise
<knightwise> hihi :) been playing frankenstein all afternoon
<AlanBell> Hi all
<knightwise> got 2 pc's from the dump and bringing them back to life wih linux (hobby of mine)
<screen-x> knightwise: I tried that once, got busted for removing stuff from the recycling centre :(
<AlanBell> I have ssh working on my little phone now
<knightwise> lol yeah they are pretty strict about that screen-x
<knightwise> silly if you think of it
<brobostigon> AlanBell: :)
<screen-x> AlanBell: daemon or client?
<popey> AlanBell: you have a little phone as oppposed to a gigantic phone?
<AlanBell> Client
<screen-x> connectbot?
<AlanBell> Midpssh and screen and irssi
<popey> that sounds like a symbian phone
<popey> dude, you're going backwards!
<AlanBell> Old LG KS360
<popey> You went Android -> Symbian when you should have taken the short cut to -> iPhone :)
<AlanBell> I value my freedom
 * BigRedS points at Google's big database
<AlanBell> although, saying that I did manage to lose the darn thing
<BigRedS> ;)
 * popey goes looking for the source code for LG KS360
<popey> ubuntu-uk.org seems unwell
<danfish> AlanBell is so into freedom he let his old phone roam free (on a bus) :P
<popey> [8962777.581520] Out of memory: kill process 10311 (apache2) score 14870 or a child
<popey> [8962777.581539] Killed process 10311 (apache2)
<popey> joy
<MartijnVdS> fun
<popey> tempted to switch from apache to lighty
<MartijnVdS> popey: I switched to Cherokee
 * MartijnVdS likes it
<X3N> we shouldn't switch just because the machine is breaking though
<X3N> has it actually died now? I'm not getting any response on ssh
<popey> uhm, i have experience of this X3N :)
<popey> i am on it
<popey> shutting it down..
<popey> well, trying to
<popey> booting..
<czajkowski> eh why no MooDog
<czajkowski> odd
<popey> its back
<popey> X3N: the reason I said that is because I have had experience of apache2 & wordpress 3.x and php 5.3 causing OOM errors
<popey> I had it on my VPS, and no matter how I tuned apache2, I couldn't get it to stop.
<popey> switched to lighty, problem gone#
<screen-x> I  wrote a hello world iphone app last night (my app) on my computer, tried to transfer it to iphone (my phone), wouldn't let me withouth paying apple Â£100. That's when not caring about freedom bites you.
<X3N> OOM?
<popey> Out Of Memory
<X3N> oh
<popey> oh oh em
<popey> screen-x: where did you get Â£100 from?
<screen-x> popey: ios dev program enrolment fee.
<popey> its Â£59 Inc VAT
<MartijnVdS> $100 then
<screen-x> o really?
<popey> ya rly
<MartijnVdS> $100 =~ Â£62
<davmor2> czajkowski: you scared him off
 * popey is looking at an invoice for "IOS DEVELOPER PROGRAM" for Â£48.76+VAT
<screen-x> popey: ah yes, I hadn't noticed it was dollars.
<popey> still, not free
<screen-x> no :(
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's still a lot
<popey> But then neither is Red Hat Linux.
<popey> Have you seen the documentation?
<czajkowski> davmor2: ;(
<popey> It's quite... extensive
<screen-x> popey: I can understand charging for app store, but Its a shame you can't run your own app on your own phone free :(
<popey> yeah, I'm pretty sure you can
<screen-x> well with jailbreak
<davmor2> czajkowski: isn't today the day his shift changes maybe?
<czajkowski> no idea
<czajkowski> I don't stalk him that;s your role
<davmor2> czajkowski: you don't need to stalk him he does that to you :P
<screen-x> davmor2: no fun in stalking these days, latitude has made it too easy.
<davmor2> screen-x: only if they let you use it
<czajkowski> latitude++ at fosdem tryig to find people
<AlanBell> data roaming at Â£3/meg is unammusing though
<czajkowski> Used a spacial sim for roaming
<czajkowski> so a lot cheaper
<AlanBell> good idea
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> full of em
<screen-x> I guess the more ip based services you use, the less your number matters, so its fine to change sims often.
 * AlanBell is full of awe at the brilliance of czajkowski 
<czajkowski> LOL lets not go over board shall we
<czajkowski> but here's an idea
<czajkowski> Ubuntu-UK demo day or install day/ Bug jam here at Sirius some weekend
<davmor2> AlanBell: You see the things you start
<czajkowski> Ubuntu UK bowling night
<czajkowski> thoughts?
<czajkowski> anyone up for either
<AlanBell> yes, yes
<AlanBell> keep em coming
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/2011plan
<czajkowski> does anyone fancy working on Ubuntu Bugs Saturday 2nd April ????
<davmor2> czajkowski: the issue with such days is where, if you have it down south it's too expensive for people up north, and visa versa.  install day is a nice idea though, is that so someone can install ubuntu on gorgomon for you :P
<X3N> maybe
<czajkowski> davmor2: so folks in the north have to organise stuff as welll
<czajkowski> but I'm tired of conference type events over here
<czajkowski> I want to have some fun
<gord> i kinda got too busy and burnt out to keep organising stuff here, nothing really happens anymore
<czajkowski> aye thats fair enough
<czajkowski> cant fall down to one person either
<gord> it wasn't just me, but it falling completely on the shoulders of others gets a bit much
<czajkowski> nods
<popey> 14:12:49 < davmor2> czajkowski: the issue with such days is where, if you have it down south it's too expensive for people up north, and visa versa.  install day is a nice idea though, is that so someone can install ubuntu on gorgomon for you :P
<popey> -----------------------------> /dev/null
<popey> I thought we got over the "where shall we have the event" about 3 years ago
<popey> if people want events near them, organise one near them. EOS
<davmor2> popey: might of but I was unaware of it :D
<czajkowski> popey: indeed
<popey> not any more :)
<davmor2> popey: indeed
<czajkowski> If I organise a bug jam here in Sirius on April 2nd would folks be interesteD?
<czajkowski> month before release ?
<czajkowski> can be a bug jam or just to work on stuff together?
<czajkowski> think there would be any interest?
<jpds> Bug jam just don't sound tasty.
<czajkowski> bug squashing
<andypiper> maybe
<andypiper> poss'bly
 * czajkowski waves at andypiper 
<Dave2> mm, jam
<andypiper> 'lo
<czajkowski> tbh the idea of a bug jam is just about getting folks together and helping folks
<danfish> yes czajkowski, a good idea
<czajkowski> it doesnt clash with rugby
<czajkowski> there is a pub a the end of the road
<czajkowski> we can have some lunch and drinks
<czajkowski> and just help folks get a little more involved
<andypiper> we could all sit around and watch popey shout at various apps not working the way he wants
<popey> czajkowski: yup, sounds good
<czajkowski> ok am gonna fire a mail off the UK list
<popey> czajkowski: we could bring milk for andypipers saucer
<andypiper> lol
<andypiper> free milk and bugs!
<popey> tasty!
<andypiper> nomz
<andylockran> howdy
<devush> Hi. i am running the ubuntu 10.10 on the mac 10.06 within the virtualbox. earlier the same VM was running on XP host within VMware. I just imported it. Everything runs fine except that the data transfer with external USB lead to crash most of the time. It is a Virtual Box problem or ubuntu to blame?
<czajkowski> mail done
<popey> howdy howdy howdy andylockran
<popey> devush: which bit crashes?
<czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/687/detail/
<czajkowski> ties in with UGJ as well
<devush> popey: it just hangs fully. the virtualbox. only the restart of the virualbox helps
<popey> personally I would blame virtualbox, the USB support has never been fantastic
<DJones> Heh, the ubuntugeek website looks as though it has problems, just had  a warning that its infected with a trojan, somebody else mentioned it in #u as well
 * BigRedS tries to remember where weybridge is
 * BigRedS finds the link to the map...
<devush> i have fedora running without problem.  - i was just testing. may be the import of virtualbox has some issues.  anyway, i am creating a new vm with 11.04 already.
<BigRedS> I was fiddling with 11.04 in vbox yesterday.
<BigRedS> unity's a lot less... bad than I was expecting it to be
<devush> i am also thinking to get 10.10 on the macair directly without the virtualbox. is any body running it. and how to install it without the Superdrive.
<popey> i have 10.10 on my mac, not an air though
<popey> knightwise has put ubuntu on a macbook air I think?
<BigRedS> there've been a couple of people on here claim to get it on mb airs with a normal drive
<BigRedS> with no hassle, a Just Works sort of approach IIRC
<devush> as I have very stable 10.10 on the vmware for my main development. so i will still prefer 10.10 instead of 11.04.
<devush> bigreds: apart from the install are there any major issues you heard - 10.10 on new macair
<andypiper> i wonder why killing Chrome on my 10.10 install causes X to crash
<czajkowski> popey: what is the UK tag for Ubuntu ?
<popey> no idea
<czajkowski> shall #uk it
<czajkowski> when is Natty released ?
<czajkowski> April ? date?
<popey> see the release schedule on the wiki
<BigRedS> devush: nope, but I've not really been listening
<czajkowski> goes to google
<popey> 38th april
<popey> er
<BigRedS> I'm pretty sure it was knightwise who did it
<popey> 28th
<andypiper> 38th
<czajkowski> andypiper: ?
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<andypiper> they added 10 extra days to april
<andypiper> just to ensure Natty was GOOD AND READY
<popey> DJones: thing that annoys me most about ubuntugeek
<popey> the tradepub link on the right to the manual pdf
<davmor2> popey: No I like your first one more,  we didn't miss the release we're just waiting on a calendar update
<czajkowski> Just wondered re release party about doing a non london event, like Hampshire bowling or something for natty. on the Saturday 30th.
<popey> heh
<popey> also, looks like ubuntugeek has been reverted back to july last year
<davmor2> czajkowski: #ubuntu-uk possibly better and more relevant
<czajkowski> though I thought I heard a mumer that the release  wasnt gonna happen in london this year as that weekend is the wedding
<czajkowski> davmor2: - dashes don't work in searches for hash tags
<davmor2> czajkowski: #UbuntuUk
<czajkowski> nods
<DJones> popey: Is the manual supposed to be copyright/paid for?
<davmor2> czajkowski: you're correct the wedding screws up London so it'll be neigh on impossible to get to millbank
<czajkowski> aye thats what I thought....
<popey> DJones: there is copyright on it, thats not my beef
<popey> DJones: my problem is that he's putting the manual behind a tradepub signup
<popey> thats just plain rude
<popey> he didnt make the manual, as far as I know he contributed zero to it, yet he gets the benefit from the tradepub sign ups
<DJones> I see what you mean, its not polite as a starting point
<DJones> If you hadn't explained, I wouldn't have know, I haven't heard of tradepub before
<popey> fact is you can get the manual via a direct pdf download link on their website
<DJones> Just looking now, on tradepub, you have to fill in name + contact details + email so they can email it to you, yet just a straight download from the ubuntu-manual site, the words "blighter" and  "cheeky" spring to mind in a differnt order
<popey> heh
<popey> exactly
<Azelphur> random off topicness, I love this xD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuRuwR2JSXI
<Laney> arguably it is violating the CC-BY-SA license by not providing attribution
<nigelb> davmor2: poke, around?
<davmor2> nigelb: I am
<nigelb> davmor2: You work on django right? :)
<davmor2> nigelb: No I just break it the team work on it :)
<nigelb> lol
<nigelb> davmor2: Wanna take a session at UDW about django app development?
<Azelphur> oO, django. My websites are all django powered :)
<nigelb> \o/
<davmor2> nigelb: pm'd
<nigelb> davmor2: thanks for telling me that you Pm'd.  I have like 100 windows on irssi right now ;)
<diplo> Guys and gals, if you have a PDF that is displaying differently on two different machines from a PDF that is created via postscript
<diplo> What would you say would be the cause, does it use the print drivers to sort the postscript out or is internal to say the PDF viewer ?
<davmor2> diplo: you should be able to view PS directly that would tell you what the original looked like the one that doesn't look like the original may have a rendering issue
<diplo> Not on my machine so can't, had this feeling that the printer drivers did some of the rendering
<diplo> Which is why it could be different on 2 different machines
<brobostigon> in the prefferred applications app, i want it to start chromium by default, and it is set thhere to reflect that. however for exaple when click on a link in a tweet in gwibber, it comesup with an error saying, something along thelines of, cant find google-chrome to open this link. even though i have it set to use chromium-browser. any ideas?
<brobostigon> and in gconf it also points at chromium-browser.
<brobostigon> Failed to execute child process "/opt/google/chrome/google-chrome" (No such file or directory)
<brobostigon> makes no sense.
<DJones> brobostigon: I seem to remember reading somewhere that there are a couple of places you have to set the default browser and one of them isn't obvious
<BigRedS> /etc/alternatives
<BigRedS> which is updated with update-alternatives
<BigRedS> (or by manually linking things)
<BigRedS> that's the lovely thing about standards...
<DJones> brobostigon: Could you not create a symlink from /opt/google/chrome/google-chrome to chromium-browser if all else fails
<directhex> brobostigon, there are 2 places the default browser is set.
<directhex> brobostigon, are *both* chromium?
 * brobostigon stabs the jobcentre for interruptiing, :(
<directhex> there's the gnome setting, and there's update-alternatives --config x-www-browser
<brobostigon> so the latter is set in/etc/alternatives as BigRedS said?
<directhex> yes
<brobostigon> so i update it, as yousaid with "update-alternatives --config x-www-browser" ?
<BigRedS> something like that
<BigRedS> I generally just use rm and ln, though
<directhex> brobostigon, yes, that'll give a list you can pick from
<brobostigon> directhex: thank you. :)
<directhex> brobostigon, it determines what the sensible-browser command spawns
<brobostigon> directhex: ah,
<brobostigon> directhex: so either a gnome restart and or system restart for that to take affect?
<directhex> brobostigon, shouldn't need either :/
<brobostigon> directhex: ok,let me try againthen.
<brobostigon> when i click on a url in irssi, it comes up with the same error. gwibber seems to hve gone into non-cooperating mode.
<directhex> hmph
<directhex> try logging out/in then
<brobostigon> ok, brb,
<brobostigon> same behaviour.
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> directhex: iwould say then, something is broken, as this is debian sid.
<directhex> hm
<BigRedS> what's irssi running it? it's the terminal emulator that's doing it, not irssi itself
<BigRedS> See if you can find a non-gnome thing with which to test
<brobostigon> something non-gtk ?
<brobostigon> brb, jobcentre paperwork to do.
 * brobostigon returns,
<screen-x> echo $?
<brobostigon> ?
<X3N> NULL clearly
<screen-x> brobostigon: was your quest successful?
<brobostigon> screen-x: possibly, found ICT support tech, over at one of the oford colleges.
<brobostigon> oxford*
<screen-x> brobostigon: directhex works at oxford iirc
<directhex> not any more
<screen-x> directhex: what are you up to now?
<directhex> http://apebox.org/wordpress/linux/296/
<X3N> brobostigon: what kind of job are you looking for?
<brobostigon> X3N: i would like to do some user  and systems support. which i have done before, i would even be open to similer things.
<Azelphur> lmfao, I have my mums Â£100 budget android phone running psx4droid
<screen-x> directhex: awesome :)
<brobostigon> X3N: i should also mention, i like being creative, and making new and different things.
<Mez> Can anyone reccomend good asset management software?
<jpds> Mez: Asset as in dosh?
<Mez> Asset as in hardware/software/etc
<X3N> Mez: mysqld ;)
<Mez> X3N: cause that's a great, easy to use frontend.
<X3N> yeah, haven't you used mysql-query-browser? or phpmyadmin ;)
 * BigRedS has become quite partial to the mysql cli
<X3N> or that ^
<BigRedS> haha
<X3N> sorry Mez, not very helpful
<directhex> map it out in minecraft. use diamond for expensive laptops, lapis lasuli for midrange, dirt for cheap
<X3N> ..although in comparison with that, my suggestion was pretty good
<DeathSling> Hello again all, it's been a while since I was here
<DeathSling> not that anyone should have missed me
<brobostigon> evening DeathSling
<DeathSling> I've just sucessfully got drbd and a virtual guest running, probably not very well but it's running...
<DeathSling> ...slowly...
<brobostigon> drbd ?
<mgdm> it's a thing that lets you mirror filesystems (sort of)
<DeathSling> it can sync hard disk across a network
<mgdm> www.drbd.org
<brobostigon> like rsync then ?
<DeathSling> sort of, but not quite
<mgdm> brobostigon: sort of - but filesystem-based instead of file-based
<brobostigon> interesting,
<DeathSling> good for fail over
 * HazRPG is rather disappointed that sony has put rootkits into 3.56, is it not bad enough that they took out the OtherOS "feature"
<HazRPG> still can't believe that's what the new patch does
<brobostigon> HazRPG: so no ps3 supercomputing linux cluster anymore, :(
<HazRPG> I'm refusing to update to 3.56 for that reason :/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: the OtherOS option has been taken out for a while now :(
<HazRPG> however I doubt those that are using them as clusters have updated their firmware
<DeathSling> "we made it and it's ours!"
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yess, and its awful.
<HazRPG> DeathSling: IKR :/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: your telling me :/
<HazRPG> so tempted to put the 3.55 cfm on
<DeathSling> ps3 and taking away linux option, read about it a while back, spoilsports is what they are
<HazRPG> I miss my ps3 linux box :(
<HazRPG> yeah, but not long after the "removal" geohotz brought it back via cfm... which I think was epic win
<brobostigon> HazRPG: no, i am not, because iknow you knew already.
<DeathSling> ps  whats 'IKR'?
<HazRPG> I Know Right
<DeathSling> ahhh   :)
<HazRPG> well its actually more like "I Know... Right!?" in its usage
<HazRPG> but you get the point :P
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<HazRPG> just sucks :(
<brobostigon> agreed, :(
<HazRPG> worse thing was, my sister used my PS3 for the first time ever to play guitar hero and updated to "update" that removed the OtherOS :(
<HazRPG> was so pissed when I found out
 * brobostigon is very impressed  with his g1 with gingerbread, impressive battery saving and life.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ouch, :(
<HazRPG> brobostigon: didn't think gingerbread was out yet
<Azelphur> brobostigon: I just bought my mum a ZTE Blade (Â£100 new from orange) It's really nice
<brobostigon> HazRPG: december last year, android 2.3 ie.
<HazRPG> which is why I've told her, if you see the "update" on the console, not to do it... I'm staying at 3.55 until they remove the rootkit they've just put on 3.56
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh I thought gingerbread was 3.0?
<brobostigon> Azelphur: iwill have a look,can it be bought unlocked and simless, ?
<Azelphur> brobostigon: no but there's a keygen for sim unlocking
<Azelphur> and it works
<brobostigon> HazRPG: v.3 is the next one after, honeycomb.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: I sim unlocked, rooted, flashed recovery and a new rom
<HazRPG> Azelphur: surely rooting it or unlocking it would render its sim-lock useless right?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: root != sim lock
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, see I've seen it been misquoted a few times
<brobostigon> Azelphur: i will have a look,thank you for the idea. :)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: re the bug jam on the 2nd April, yes, I am up for that
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I thought the sim-lock was in the O/S build?
<Azelphur> brobostigon: http://azelphur.com/content/orange-san-francisco-zte-blade-review-how-unlock-root-custom-rom
<brobostigon> Azelphur: let me read.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: I'm really impressed with it :D
<Azelphur> HazRPG: nope
<HazRPG> Azelphur: my mistake ^^
<Azelphur> I think sim lock is in radio
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i have aswell, but i know the right wayround aswell.
<HazRPG> am I the only one thinking that putting a rootkit on a system like the PS3 is bad? Considering its abilities...
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<Azelphur> HazRPG: nope, it's also not the first time Sony has done rootkits and got bitten by it
<HazRPG> brobostigon: should really unlock mine to gingerbread, the last 2 updates have been "promises to gingerbread" but have just been revisions of FroYo
<HazRPG> Azelphur: yeah I recall the problems with Music CD's back in 2005
<Azelphur> :)
<HazRPG> I actually own one of said discs sadly :/
<Azelphur> this is why I stay away from consoles
<Azelphur> I'm so glad I made that decision
<HazRPG> thankfully I ripped it on ubuntu - so I was fine xD
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i am identifying alot of improvements now, especially on an older device like the g1, and it working muchbetter, than most of the previous android version ihave tried.
<HazRPG> Azelphur: reason I got the ps3/wii/360 was so I could stay away from PC gaming, so I can strip windows off my machine altogether :/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: like the power manaegement, is so muchbetter, and the process and resource manegement,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: really?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: I PC game in wine
<Azelphur> I'm hardcore :D
<HazRPG> Azelphur: my attempts have failed for some of my games :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: really, yes.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: where do you get the builds for it?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: or do you have to compile yourself?
<HazRPG> I've thought of using cyanogen
<Azelphur> HazRPG: :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: partly cyanogenmod, and xda.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: is it cyanogen-mod your using?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: tis on the LD
<brobostigon> HazRPG: not at the moment, because the cm7/android 2.3 build, has a kernel that wont let the g1 sleep. so i am using a purer AOSP build from xda.
 * HazRPG awaits for news of hackers using the ps3 rootkits as a huge botnet xD
<brobostigon> HazRPG: and that has solved the problem,
<HazRPG> ah cool
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> wonder if the cm7 works fine for the Nexus One
<brobostigon> HazRPG: there is a cm7 android 2.3 build for nexus one,.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I wouldn't be surprised if the rootkit is exploited by cancer researchers and such likes using all the PS3 connect as a big research computer xD
<brobostigon> HazRPG: interesting idea.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: does it have the same issue as the g1 build?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: no idea.
<HazRPG> connected to the internet*
<brobostigon> lol, google  latitude thinks i am sitting in the middle of the m40, when i am sitting at home, infront of the tv.
<czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/687/detail/
<AlanBell> registered
<HazRPG> Woah! No way! Apparently my Nexus One has a 802.11 n built in
<HazRPG> I thought it was the standard b/g
<X3N> anyone experience of buying SSL certs?
<HazRPG> X3N: Not got experience buying them, but I have used them. What would you like to know?
<X3N> Where I can get a cheap one that's widely valid
<mgdm> I got one from godaddy, alternatives include gandi.net
<HazRPG> there's also: http://www.instantssl.com/
<HazRPG> depends on what you need it for
<HazRPG> are you signing software, or a website?
<X3N> website
<HazRPG> well gandi.net has them from Â£110
<HazRPG> instantssl.com from Â£45
<HazRPG> really depends what sort of protection you need, and whether you want to be protected for any liabilities or not
<HazRPG> most companies are resellers of Comodo, Verisign, etc
<HazRPG> http://www.comodo.com/e-commerce/ssl-certificates/secure-server.php
<HazRPG> you'll find verisign is highly overpriced though - but again depends on the protection you need
<HazRPG> http://www.ssl247.co.uk/ <==
<X3N> hmm thanks
<HazRPG> I use comodo for my e-mail signing
<HazRPG> and for mumble signing
<HazRPG> but a free version, since I don't need a paid one
<HazRPG> X3N: godaddy.com might be your best/cheapest option - but you'll obviously know your needs better than I will
<HazRPG> as mgdm mentioned earlier
<HazRPG> hope that helps any
<X3N> yeah that's useful, thanks
<HazRPG> the premium SSL one from GoDaddy will give you Â£155,077 /yr protection for ~Â£62 a year
<HazRPG> ring one of those sites up if your still struggling to pick which one you need
<brobostigon> and they will advise you.
<HazRPG> www.instantssl.com have a live chat system that you can talk to too if you don't wanna use the phone
<brobostigon> thats good, i likw.
<HazRPG> yeah I always like sites that have live chat features :)
<brobostigon> ebuyer used to, idont know if they do anymore.
<HazRPG> I think they still do
<brobostigon> i think.
<HazRPG> I know dabs do too
<brobostigon> oh, :)
<HazRPG> seems ebuyer took it off :(
<brobostigon> :(
<HazRPG> seems dabs did too :(
<brobostigon> :(
<HazRPG> brobostigon: woah! http://www.geeksphone.com/en/
<HazRPG> slide out keyboard!
<HazRPG> there should be more androids with slide out keyboards
<HazRPG> touch interface is bad for typing :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: agreed, a real keyboard, :)
 * brobostigon hugs his g1.
<DJones> Onceyou get used to them, I've found touch keyboards a lot faster than a physical keyboard
<HazRPG> DJones: Really? I would say I'm use to mine... and can type without looking at the screen, however that doesn't stop my fingers pressing between two positions and messing up what I was typing drastically
<HazRPG> (stupid auto-correct feature)
<HazRPG> useful for most things, but sometimes a pain
<DJones> HazRPG: I just got used to it
<DJones> although now, I'm using swype and that blows any other keyboards away
<HazRPG> the thing that bugs me is the fact that you can't hold shift with one finger and then show characters... you have to press it, then press a key, then shift out if it hasn't automatically do it
<HazRPG> I mean to type my usual password (numbers + letters + characters) I find myself pressing 20 keys instead of much less than that
<HazRPG> DJones: 8pen I find is better than swype - just me though
 * brobostigon kinda likes 8pen aswell.
<HazRPG> however it is a technique you have to get use to
<brobostigon> agreed.
<HazRPG> at first you'll be incredibly slow with it, but it does pass very quickly
<brobostigon> for some people.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: woot 8pen hugs!
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> I found the majority of people I've thrown at it start off slow for the first message or so, but then get use to it
<HazRPG> obviously time makes it so that your pretty much just swiping away lightening fast (still not got there xD) but it will happen
<brobostigon> no-one else here, i know,has actually used it, for me toask.
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> I find it an amazing tool to have on a phone
<brobostigon> HazRPG: inreal life, imean.
<HazRPG> it truly is the the keyboard for touch-screen people
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah
<HazRPG> but I tend to just see what people think of the concept - since they see me sliding my finger across the screen and go "what are you doing!?"
<HazRPG> so I boot up the teach program and see how they handle it :P
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> I wish the numbers were lined up at the top however... :(
<HazRPG> things that would be awesome in an android phone, for me, would be: 1) Sliding keyboard, 2) Number keys lined on the top of the keyboard, 3) Dual-SIMs (its been proven to work on android phones, why do big companies refuse to put it in their products)
<HazRPG> that would be the ultimate android phone in my eyes
<HazRPG> but I must be a niche market
<HazRPG> DJones: seriously give 8pen a try :) http://www.the8pen.com/
<HazRPG> if anything, just uninstall if you don't like it
<DJones> HazRPG: I'll have a look some time
<DJones> Interesting http://androidcommunity.com/bbc-iplayer-coming-to-android-and-ios-20110208/
<dutchie> i think if my phone had enough oomph to run 8pen properly, i'd quite like it
<dutchie> but my phone doesn't have enough oomph to run anything properly
<brobostigon> dutchie: my g1 has enough umphh to run 8pen,
<dutchie> yeah, i think the main issue is lack of memory
<dutchie> seeing as you can literally do nothing without it OOMing
<daubers> Woot! Home
<BluesKaj> Can somebody recommend a British Brick & Mortar Computer store chain , I can't seem to find anything but online stores. My daughter needs to buy an ac/dc adpater for her laptop . The battery is dead so she needs to find a retailer that sells them in or around London.
<DJones> Might be worth trying Maplins
<Azelphur> yea, you'll no doubt get a generic one at maplins that'll do anything
<Azelphur> if not the exact charger
<brobostigon> HazRPG: and 8pen seems fairly resource and memory efficiant,
<BluesKaj> maplins , is it expensive ? she's abit short on cash atm , DJones
<DJones> If not, probably most computer shops would be able to order one in
<DJones> i find maplins quite reasonable, not as cheap as the online shops though
<BluesKaj> DJones, computer shop names is what I need to know. I'm in Canada nad daughter has only been i London for 6mos so she's not real familiar with the reatil shops yet
<DJones> BluesKaj: I can't help with names, I'm North west England and don't know the london shops, hang around a bit though, there's quite a few that are London area in the channel
<DJones> popey: AlanBell Can either of you make a suggestion for BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> gjo thanks I appreciate the suggestion about maplin's ..looks promising :)
<BluesKaj> oops DJones , I mean :)\
<smittix> Evening all
<maco> BluesKaj: if it works anything like it does on the "home" side of the pond, the generic works-with-supposedly-everything ones will cost nearly Â£100 while an exact one'd only be Â£10  (following the 1:1 USD:GBP rule of electronics)
<grogoreo> hi
<grogoreo> I'm trying to connect an iPhone to wnxp virtualbox but doesn't come up. It does show up in ubuntu
<maco> grogoreo: vbox ose or personal use proprietary one?
<grogoreo> maco, ose
<maco> grogoreo: cant do usb with that
<grogoreo> maco, right. So will work in personal one?
<grogoreo> ta
<maco> grogoreo: bingo
<HazRPG> brobostigon: haha look at this: http://www.gsmarena.com/8_megapixel_x908_flaunts_3x_optical_zoom_and_dualsim_support-news-554.php
<grogoreo> is it possible to copy a winxp ose install to personal version?
<HazRPG> grogoreo: yeah, just keep the virtual hard drive
<brobostigon> HazRPG: that page is taking ages to load.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I had that issue too - seems its either popular, or overseas
<brobostigon> HazRPG: hmm, ok.
 * brobostigon stays patient
<HazRPG> brobostigon: its essentially an 8MP camera with phone capabilities - dual-sim too!
<grogoreo> thank Haz
<brobostigon> HazRPG: interesting.
<HazRPG> grogoreo: if your in ubuntu, should be in the .virtualbox folder
<HazRPG> unless you stored the virtual hard drive in a different location
<HazRPG> if your worried about losing it, move the folder for the whole machine (should be a folder named the same as the machine) in the .virtualbox folder to somewhere else, install the personal edition, then move back
<HazRPG> then run the software
<HazRPG> but the uninstall shouldn't remove the .virtualbox folder I don't think...
<grogoreo> I'm going to update to 4. Seems they've gotten rid of the two versions
<grogoreo> ta for info
<HazRPG> grogoreo: 4 is the one I'm using :)
<HazRPG> I find usb support seems to be a bit temperamental at times - in any version :/
<HazRPG> why do I keep googling php/mysql stuff when I have a reference book with the syntax over there <===
<HazRPG> T__T
 * HazRPG opens the MySQL pocket reference book
<BluesKaj> maco, so far I found an acer psu/adapter with cords for her model for 50â¤
<HazRPG> BluesKaj: you probably won't find one for cheaper than ~Â£40
<HazRPG> I had that issue with my laptop once, both the battery and the power supply died - ended up just saving for a new laptop instead and using an old machine
<HazRPG> BluesKaj: what make you looking for? Along with the replacement part number... so that I can see what I can find for you
<BluesKaj> HazRPG, well that's abit more than I paid for the original on ebay , it was around â¤20
<BluesKaj> HazRPG, itan acer extensa 4630z laptop
<HazRPG> BluesKaj: am I right in thinking you want to buy it straight out of a shop?
<HazRPG> or can it wait i.e. buy online?
<HazRPG> BluesKaj: you can get it for ~Â£25 from here: http://www.dhgate.com/ac-adapter-power-supply-acer-extensa-4630z/r-ff8080812af6d550012af717374e0599.html
<HazRPG> ah wait, doesn't have a UK socket
<BluesKaj> HazRPG, her laptop battery is dead so she can't order online
<HazRPG> BluesKaj: ah
<HazRPG> well I was going to say on ebay, there's a guy selling them for Â£10 inc P&P
<HazRPG> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Acer-Extensa-4630Z-AC-Adapter-Power-Supply-Charger-19v_W0QQitemZ140423586375QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=208494468143&rvr_id=208494468143&cguid=7be9bd1e12d0a0aa1463e2c3ffd6c0c1#ht_9033wt_1139
<HazRPG> BluesKaj: She could order it over the phone with this shop: http://smart-parts.net/catalog/?brand=Acer&name=Extensa&series=4600+Series&model=4630Z
<HazRPG> reasonably priced too
<BluesKaj> HazRPG, , the PSU and cords are toast , they smoked and burned , so she needs the cords and psu/adapter ...the laptop battery worked for a few hrs after the psu quit so we know the lappy is ok
<BluesKaj> HazRPG,  is that shop in London ?
<BluesKaj> HazRPG, looks very promising pricewise at least :)
<HazRPG> BluesKaj: it is london-based... however it could just be a warehouse
<HazRPG> address as taken from the website: "Smart Parts, 72 Farm Lane, London, SW6 1QA, UK"
<HazRPG> http://smart-parts.net/contact_us/
<HazRPG> again, like I said you could always ring them and order one by phone
<HazRPG> or even to just ask for more details, etc
<HazRPG> maplins might be a good bet too if you wish, they have this: http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-multi-voltage-4a-switched-mode-power-supply-48517
<selinuxium> smittix, Welcome James  :)
<HazRPG> which is reasonably priced - however make sure the settings are set to the same one as the existing brick
<HazRPG> and you should be able to just pick one up at any maplins store
<HazRPG> ah wait scratch that last one - should have read the questions at the bottom, that maplins link I put doesn't support laptops - but I'm sure they'll have one that's cheap enough
<HazRPG> BluesKaj: You could try: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&xhr=t&q=laptop+power+adaptor&cp=14&safe=off&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl
<HazRPG> BluesKaj: according to the last comment at the very bottom of that google map listing, it says that they do replace AC adapters and other stuff like that
<HazRPG> BluesKaj: hope those help you out
<HazRPG> just realised that link doesn't take you to the listing I was talking about - stupid AJAX, here's the listing mentioned earlier: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/place?cid=10275703021960055313&q=laptop+power+adaptor,+london&hl=en&dtab=0&sll=51.510192,-0.184985&sspn=0.247302,0.270211&ie=UTF8&ll=51.669574,-0.493698&spn=0,0&t=h&z=11
<HazRPG> and here's the website of the company: http://www.oxygenit.com/home_users.aspx
<HazRPG> seems like they have 2 offices in london
<brobostigon> nos da, everyone. sleep well.
<AlanBell> oi people, don't leave me alone with czajkowski http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/687/detail/
<czajkowski> :(
<daubers> Poor czajkowski
<BluesKaj> HazRPG, thanks , my daughter is going to call them to see if smartparts has the adapter in stock and if she buy it directly from their outlet if possible .She lives quite close by, and has the address and all the particulars
 * daubers might be on a boat in Norfolk on the day of the Global Jam
<daubers> Oooh er W:Failed to fetch http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/natty/universe/binary-amd64/Packages.bz2  Hash Sum mismatch
<daubers> Also, should I be able to edit the text in the error dialog?
 * daubers looks for a bug
<directhex> no. it's probably an editable so you can highlught and copy/paste. but it should be readonly
 * daubers files \o/
<daubers> Bug 715454
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 715454 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Can type in update manager dialog that's showing information" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715454
<daubers> also, blasted nvidia drivers
<MartijnVdS> daubers: if you can't type in a window, try using metacity
<MartijnVdS> I've has compiz keyboard focus bugs
<MartijnVdS> had*
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Opposite problem :)
<MartijnVdS> wait
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Can type in a box I probably shouldn't be able too
<MartijnVdS> CAN type.. hmm
<MartijnVdS> daubers: you should be able to.. in case an upgrading package asks if you want to overwrite configs yes/no/diff
<daubers> MartijnVdS: But it's just a cancel box!
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Look at the screenshot in the bug report...
<MartijnVdS> daubers: ah.. it's not the "dpkg scrolly" window thing
<daubers> No :)
 * MartijnVdS bad
<daubers> Righty, about to fall asleep on the sofa (again) so should probably head to bed
<daubers> Night all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> brobostigon: Haha, just figured out my number problem on 8pen - made some gestures :D
<HazRPG> ... wait he's offline :/
<BluesKaj> HazRPG, thanks , my daughter is going to call them to see if smartparts has the adapter in stock and if she can buy it directly from their retail outlet .She lives quite close by
<HazRPG> BluesKaj: good stuff :)
<BluesKaj> decent prices too, HazRPG
<BluesKaj> well, stuff to do ...gotta go
<jpds> daubers: apt-get update -o Acquire::http::No-Cache=True
<n1md4> Can Intel E5335 run on a 64-bit kernel?
<moreati> n1md4: yes
<jpds> n1md4: http://ark.intel.com/ is your friend.
<n1md4> thanks guys.  would it be an amd64 or x86_64 ?
<moreati> n1md4: those are two brands for the same thing
<n1md4> moreati: okay, I'd always thought one was optimised for AMD the other Intel.
<moreati> n1md4: nope - AMD created a 64-bit extension to x86 with the Athlon64 and called it AMD64. Intel licensed it and called it x86_64.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-09
<n1md4> anyone using squeeze + dovecot?
<n1md4> Well, there are some sieve issues, but commenting out managesieve parts 'fixed' that.
<phonex01> hello guys i need help
<phonex01> i have problem with tor i cant connect to tor i have this mesg " connecting to a relay directory " ??? so whats the problem ??
<phonex01> even i use bridges cz in my university they use smart filter proxy ,
<phonex01> guys i need help !!
<daubers> Morning
<cps> morning peeps :)
 * daubers makes some coffee
 * cps loves how he can't install packages using synaptic yet he can do so in the terminal
<smittix> Mornin
<cps> hey smittix
<DJones> Good morning all
<BigRedS> Goood morning!
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> o/
<MartijnVdS> de-tiling kitchen wall == noise
<danfish> \o/
<danfish> oops, didn't mean the '\'
<danfish> o/
<MartijnVdS> daubers: *\o/*
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> danfish:
<MartijnVdS> danfish: or even *\o/*
<smittix> :)
<smittix> MartijnVdS: Is that a cheerleader?
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> smittix: 'tis
<danfish> \o^  <--- teapot :)
<MartijnVdS> <o/
<cps> hello
<MartijnVdS> danfish: <O/ <- big teapot
<cps> debian \o/
<danfish> MartijnVdS: vg :)
 * AlanBell installs debian in a VM
 * TheOpenSourcerer updates eclipse on one machine and installs it on another.
<AlanBell> going to install eclipse in this debian VM
 * MartijnVdS hands AlanBell some extra CPU power
 * AlanBell stares at a black window with nothing much happening in it
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<cps> lol
<AlanBell> hmm, bit of virtual CD activity for a minute, then nothing
<AlanBell> could they not have done a splash screen or anything!
<BigRedS> There is a splash screen
<BigRedS> it normally comes up for about a week
<AlanBell> seeing nothing in virtualbox
<BigRedS> hmmm. It might be just taking a while... though it's had two minutes already
<BigRedS> just use netbeans
<BigRedS> or vim
<BigRedS> :)
 * AlanBell taps fingers
 * AlanBell looks at an ubuntu iso
<BigRedS> I very much liked netbeans for its "fix my file hierarchy" function
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> I think my upstream adventure may be coming to an end
<BigRedS> Have you tried running it in a terminal to see what's spat to stdout?
<AlanBell> running virtualbox in a terminal?
<cps> hello czajkowski
<AlanBell> I don't think there would be any output from inside the VM
<BigRedS> no, eclipse in a terminal in the vm
<AlanBell> I can't get debian installer to start
<BigRedS> I'm assuming you've a Debian VM up, and are waiting for eclipse to start inside it?
<BigRedS> Ohhhhhhhh!
<BigRedS> I thought it was eclipse that was broken
<AlanBell> no, I am failing at the first hurdle
<AlanBell> I need eclipse in a VM today, just thought I would use the shiny new debian 6 iso to create it
<BigRedS> Shiny new Debian 6?
<BigRedS> Debian stable doesn't come in 'shiny' or 'new' :)
<AlanBell> so I see
<AlanBell> or working
<cps> BigRedS, I think Debian 6 is shiny and new :3
<cps> that's the main reason why I switched to it this morning
<cps> another reason is because my hdd needed reformatting
<BigRedS> cps, it's new, but I use it precisely because it's not shiny
 * AlanBell installs ubuntu 10.10 in a vm
<nigelb> AlanBell: you run lucid?
<nigelb> (I mean normally)
<AlanBell> maverick
<AlanBell> just I want to kind of have a VM per customer for dev work
<nigelb> hehe
<nigelb> good idea ;)
<AlanBell> then I can move them to different machines, have different servers running on them, break my host operating system by doing silly things to it etc.
<AlanBell> so why didn't debian 6 boot?
<AlanBell> didn't even see grub happening
 * BigRedS downloads a debian 6 iso
 * cps has all 8 DVD ISOs
<TheOpenSourcerer> Probly the "free" kernel. Maybe it needs some non-free firmware for the VM manager?
<cps> well, all 8 DVDs for that matter :p
 * cps installs kdenlive
<AlanBell> virtuabox boots a heap of other operating systems unmodified
<TheOpenSourcerer> Including OSX (although that does need modifying briefly).
<BigRedS> There's a non-free install CD isn't there?
<BigRedS> or do you need to do acrobatics to use external media?
<AlanBell> http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37704
<AlanBell> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=55568
<AlanBell> looks like it might be broken
<popey> Morning all!
<cps> morning popey :)
<czajkowski>              â
<czajkowski> ââââââââââââââ ââââââ âââââââââââââ â
<czajkowski> ââ ââ ââ  â ââ â ââââ ââââ ââââââ âââ
<czajkowski> ââ âââ â  â ââââ ââââ â  ââ â  ââââââ
<soneill> bad czajkowski
<soneill> bad
<cps> hahaha
<gord> and my streak of randomly picking up bits of hardware and them working with ubuntu flawlessly continues, this week, some silly usb audio jack thing that is designed for a mac, woo
<czajkowski> *grin*
 * cps hi5's soneill 
 * DJones takes glasses off & squints heavily to make sense of that
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - Just got "invited" to let our son go on the school ski trip next Jan. Â£840 smackeroos!
<cps> DJones, oh dear
<BigRedS> Hah. Looks like debian has exactly the opposite of the problem Ubuntu does
<gord> i don't use a monospace font for irc, its all gibberish to me ;)
<cps> monospace fonts ftw
<AlanBell> gibberish ftw
<BigRedS> Where any given prerelease Ubuntu has been incredibly thoroughly tested in VBox but almost nowhere else, and apparently nobody thought to try Debian in a VM
<DJones> gord: You'll have to leave -offtopic  & defocus, that'll reduce the gibberish :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: debian on hardware, ubuntu in vm :)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: nice invite!
<MartijnVdS> it's what they're for
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, I think that's the way round most people do it
<gord> pre-release ubuntu gets tested on a *lot* of hardware
<gord> believe me, i see the bug reports
<BigRedS> Yeah, probably. Just from the MLs it appeared that 90% of the 'testers' were doing it in VBox on top of a stable install on the metal
<BigRedS> the -user ML not testers
<BigRedS> so, yeah, not at all representative. I was being a bit facetious :)
<DJones> gord: Are you aware of a bug on natty with grub where the list of operating systems/kernels is corrupted & almost unreadable?
<DJones> om
<DJones> 09:22 < chupacabra> that message told me nothing i didn't know
<DJones> Where did that come from
<MartijnVdS> DJones: you use that list? :)
<gord> DJones, nope, doesn't happen here either
<DJones> gord: Hmmh, I'll have to have a look later, I did an upgrade at the weekend & the grub menu is virtually unreadable
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Not really, it just appears because the machine has an XP install going back donkeys years
<AlanBell> well ubuntu is installed and started, debian hasn't booted yet
<screen-x> morning :)
<cps> hey screen-x
<cps> :)
<screen-x> \o cps
<DJones> gord: Sounds like the grub problem could be this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/701111 might try & diagnose/fix tonight if I get chance
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 701111 in grub2 (Ubuntu Natty) "corrupted and flashing grub screen on T400" [High,Triaged]
<cps> hello bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> Goeie dag, mense!
<TheOpenSourcerer> how can I tell what arch my ubuntu is? i.e. 386 or 64bit
<cps> uname -a I believe
<cps> brb
<TheOpenSourcerer> yep. eclipse wasn't booting on my lappy as it running i686 not x86_64. Doh.
<davmor2> morning all
 * TheOpenSourcerer downloads helois again.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s.helois/helios
<nigelb> Morning TheOpenSourcerer, DaveMorris
<DaveMorris> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> hi nigelb
<nigelb> o/
<nigelb> wait, I wanted to say good morning to davmor2 earlier ;)
<nigelb> tabfail
<davmor2> morning nigelb
 * cps returns
 * czajkowski slaps davmor2 and walks off 
<n1md4> BigRedS: Doh!
<davmor2> Yay! czajkowski is back prod
<bigcalm> It's so peaceful when I forget to load Outlook in the morning
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, you should use dpkg-architecture, as it's technically possible for uname to report something different to your ubuntu install
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a big hug
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: Thanks. uname -a was correct in this instance but that is useful to know.
<TheOpenSourcerer> alord@lobsang:~$ dpkg-architecture
<TheOpenSourcerer> The program 'dpkg-architecture' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
<TheOpenSourcerer> sudo apt-get install dpkg-dev
<directhex> heh
<directhex> there's that, of course
<screen-x> directhex: when would uname give the wrong answer?
<BigRedS> When you've told dpkg to use some arch other than that which your kernel is
<directhex> screen-x, when your kernel doesn't match your debian arch
<directhex> screen-x, e.g. using an amd64 kernel with i386 userland
<screen-x> directhex: ah ok, thanks.
<dwatkins> or if you just installed a new kernel but havn't rebooted
<directhex> or have an ARM chroot on amd64 :)
<dwatkins> sounds funky, directhex
<hoover> mornin folks
<screen-x> sup hoover
<dwatkins> ello
<hoover> not much screen-x, yourself?
<screen-x> work ticking over..
<hoover> yeah, same here... suffering from burn- and bore-out at the same time 8-P
<screen-x> writing xml as a human is like trying to pursuade a robot to be more creative
<smittix> Yawn
<smittix> Coffee Just isn't working today
<X3N> have an apple
<X3N> or apple juice
<jpds> X3N: Both?
<X3N> or both
 * screen-x forgot his lunch :(
<X3N> same :(
<screen-x> I even got it all ready in a plastic box
<BigRedS> I bought mine on the way in today...
<smittix> X3N: Yeah, I heard an apple works just as good as a latte!
<rowinggolfer> good morning
<popey> hi rowinggolfer
<rowinggolfer> hi popey.
<rowinggolfer> popey, I've been writing a little app.
<AlanBell> o/
<rowinggolfer> not ready for mainstream yet, but it has got some viral attention this am
<AlanBell> we were talking to someone yesterday about openmolar
<rowinggolfer> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/02/auteur-is-new-non-linear-video-editor.html
<rowinggolfer> AlanBell, I am working on a postgres version of that.
<rowinggolfer> which will be much better than my original hack.
<AlanBell> how about an openERP module?
<AlanBell> which has postgres at the back end
<AlanBell> and is written in python
<rowinggolfer> not familiar with openERP
<AlanBell> http://www.openerp.com/
<BigRedS> I'm after a way of seeing each redirect my browser follows. Any suggestions of plugins? I specifically don't want to prevent it following them, though
<rowinggolfer> BigRedS, which browser?
<BigRedS> I'm using firefox by default, but I don't really mind which I use for this
<rowinggolfer> AlanBell, that looks very interesting
<shauno> BigRedS: I use a ff plugin 'live http headers'.  would fit the bill, but perhaps overly verbose
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/live-http-headers/
<dogmatic69> heh
<BigRedS> shauno: dogmatic69 Cheers!
<AlanBell> rowinggolfer: we had a nice long meeting in a pub with this partner http://www.openerp.com/node/554
<AlanBell> they are interested in openerp for primary care
<popey> rowinggolfer: "Yay!" Just what linux needs! Another non-linear video editor ;)
<BigRedS> shauno: dogmatic69 live http headers just worked perfectly. Cheers!
<dogmatic69> np
<popey> rowinggolfer: can I recommend you create a separate ppa rather than have just one personal one?
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's easier to build your own than it is to fix an existing one
<popey> apparently so
<rowinggolfer> popey, good point.
<rowinggolfer> popey, like I said... I wasn't really expecting any movement yet.
<popey> looks nice
<directhex> AlanBell, we've been trying a new ERP path
<rowinggolfer> popey, ty
<gord> i tried to use pitivi to do a simple task the other week, didn't end well.. sucks we don't have a good video editor yet
<popey> pitivi crashes reliably with any video from my camera :(
<rowinggolfer> the problem with pitivi... IMHO is that gstreamer takes it down.
<rowinggolfer> I suspect 99% of pitivi issues are actually gstreamer issues.
<directhex> popey, i'd blame those greasy monkeys at collabora multimedia for any and all pitivi issues
<popey> yeah
<rowinggolfer> and the majority of those are down to being pc with codecs.
<popey> :)
<rowinggolfer> popey.. have you seen bug no 1 for auteur ?
<popey> no
<popey> url?
<rowinggolfer> http://bugs.launchpad.net/auteur
<popey> haha
<popey> bug 715104
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 715104 in Auteur "Final Cut Pro has majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715104
<bigcalm> Heh
<screen-x> !info lombard
<lubotu3> Package lombard does not exist in maverick
<screen-x> well thats one less.
 * cps returns from a nice soak in a hot bath
<daubers> I quite like FCP
<daubers> Plays nice with shared storage :)
<screen-x> daubers: hows your uber busy febuary going?
<daubers> screen-x: Busy :(
<daubers> screen-x: Got home at 11:30 monday, got home at 8:45 yesterday. looks like I'll be working till 7 tonight too
<screen-x> minions+=1
<daubers> and no-one sells decent SCSI cables anymore so I'm having to get some custom made!
<screen-x> sas?
<directhex> scsi is ancient history
<daubers> screen-x: Way things are going within 6 months minions+=2
<directhex> it's like complaining they don't sell morse code transmitters at currys
<daubers> screen-x: Tape drives don't take SAS yet
<daubers> also, customer supplied that tape drives
<screen-x> is there any advantage of sas of sata for ssd?
<MartijnVdS> not really
<daubers> Nope, drive speed is the bottleneck
<MartijnVdS> PCI-E SSDs ++
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: to they have SATA controllers on board, or are they completely new controllers?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: they're completely new controllers
<screen-x> hmmm, so compatibility issues?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3eFgClKGMc
<BigRedS> AlanBell: which ISO were you using earlier for Debian?
<BigRedS> I've an installer going now
<BigRedS> in vbox
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: no audio here, so cant hear what he's saying, but there are some big number on the screen behind..
<AlanBell> debian 6 64 bit
<BigRedS> AlanBell: this claims to do both
<BigRedS> the netinstall
<BigRedS> I say 'claims'. I've just seen the file name has "-amd64-i386-" in the name
<DJones> AlanBell: Is this any interest to you http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/09/michael_meeks_talks_libreoffice/
<czajkowski> He's a very good speaker
<BigRedS> I quite enjoyed that talk
<BigRedS> was not expecting to find myself interested in an office suite
 * czajkowski spent most of the Sunday in the Libre office room
<BigRedS> Ah, I was in perl and cloud
<BigRedS> mixture of obsolescence and buzzwords
<ajbinnie> hi folks, anyone had any experience with setting up ekiga for BT broadband talk?
<AlanBell> DJones: it is of general interest to me and I will be going along to the plugfest thing
<DeathSling> i've lost my ssh connection to my server.... and at home, arhh f...
<SuperMatt> oopsy
<SuperMatt> I try to avoid doing install remotely
<SuperMatt> in case that kind of thing happens
<SuperMatt> same with rebooting
<screen-x> This is a great advantage of VMs (as long as you have access to the host..)
<screen-x> or ipmi..
<davmor2> screen-x: or the wonders of byobu/screen in that if you lose your connection you can log back in and pick up where you left off
<davmor2> DeathSling: How did you lose it,  did you have to reboot in which case you might need to give it a couple of seconds before you reconnect
<screen-x> davmor2: screen doesn't help you much if you need to reboot a remote box..
<davmor2> screen-x: this is true but if you lose your connection while it's up it does :)
<screen-x> yep :)
<screen-x> screen -x \o/
<DeathSling> i waited, i can ping it but connection is now refused. Was looking to see if it has anything to do with libvirt
<davmor2> screen-x: byobu ftw
<screen-x> screen -x works fine with byobu..
<screen-x> though sadly it isnt required as often, as byobu auto rejoins the runnins session.
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<screen-x> afternoon brobostigon
<davmor2> screen-x: I know but if you lose connection you just need to log back in and byobu automatically reconnects you :D
<brobostigon> stupid apt, it wanted to remove xserver-xorg, :(
<DeathSling> hi
<screen-x> brobostigon: apt knows best, maybe you shouldnt be using X?
<brobostigon> afternoonings DeathSling and davmor2 nd screen-x
<brobostigon> screen-x: i dont think it does inthis case.
<davmor2> brobostigon: lo
<screen-x> brobostigon: screen+links+irssi+mutt, sorted ;-)
<brobostigon> screen-x: fairpoint.
<DeathSling> i was ssh'ing to the host and trying to setup a virtual guest remotly. everything was fine until now when i rebooted
<screen-x> DeathSling: did you add the host's nic to a bridge?
<brobostigon> so i let it remove xorg, and reinstalled it again, apt defeated,
<DeathSling> did but then removed it, didn't on the second host, but have lost both
<DeathSling> after i changed sshd_config's port I restarted networking and loged on remotely
<davmor2> screen-x: don't forget the nano
<screen-x> s/nano/vim/g
<davmor2> nano ftw
<brobostigon> nano seems to be the simplest, and easiest to learn.
<DeathSling> since then I have installed virtinst
<screen-x> vim is awesome and ubiquitous, what more could you want ;-)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: http://secretgeek.net/fuv_intro.asp
<davmor2> screen-x: nano!
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: haha
<brobostigon> screen-x: it not good to learn. more or less impossible.
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: reminds me of http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/petrovich.html
<shauno> I used to think vim was perfectly sane.  until I had to use it on a terminal which didn't have cursor keys recently
<screen-x> hjkl
 * brobostigon found salt and vinegar pringles while shopping today,yummy,
<brobostigon> :)
<DeathSling> lol
<shauno> hjkl on a dvorak keymap is mindbending
<screen-x> ahh yes, I can see that causing fury
<dwatkins> How often does one type hjkl?
<andylockran> howdy guys
<andylockran> czajkowski: playing rugby for the first time in AGES tonight :s
<screen-x> dwatkins: vim command mode motion
<shauno> dwatkins: they're left/down/up/right in vim, so either a lot, or never, depending on whether you have cursor keys available
<popey> and depending on whether you use vim :)
<popey> * Note: Other editors are available :)
<dwatkins> oh I see, shauno - no cursor keys?
<shauno> a 'dumb' terminal (as a description of offence, rather than the technical meaning), that didn't understand them properly.  and not using it long enough to care to fight for them
<czajkowski> Glee is addictive
<popey> Lies
<popey> Watched one episode. thought it was bobbins, never watched another.
<DeathSling> HAHA    my f-up with ssh was due to me having  bad drbd.conf    (someone was able to look at the screen for me and press a magical button of 'abort')
<popey> I am however neither female nor gay, so not in the target demographic :)
<czajkowski> popey: yer very odd at times
<TheOpenSourcerer> !info popey
<lubotu3> Package popey does not exist in maverick
<popey> \o/
<popey> !popey
<lubotu3> popey is the UK alternative to elvis.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's the cookie.
<czajkowski> never ceases to make me laugh
<davmor2> popey: you got through an episode
<popey> \o/ hamitron
<bigcalm> Bobbins, great term
<popey> :)
<hamitron> hi popey :)
<popey> hullo
<popey> you've been missed
<hamitron> awwww \o/
<hamitron> well, back now, after 5 days of toothache
<hamitron> bit behind with some work I got here still :/
<popey> ouch
<czajkowski> evil tooth aches
<hamitron> plus for some weird reason, my ISP have not been always giving me an IP
<hamitron> which hasn't been great
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> If you have no IP then you have no connection
<hamitron> I know
<hamitron> :/
<bigcalm> Ah :(
<hamitron> I am wondering if maybe my router was not loading the TCP module correctly
<hamitron> seems ok atm
<hamitron> I was not in the mood to phone some foreign support line whilst I was in pain, and now it is just working, so guess they've had a lucky escape
<hamitron> does it again and I will moan and complain as normal :)
 * popey invites hamitron to #ubuntu-uk-minecraft :)
<hamitron> we not allowed to talk it here now? ;)
 * BigRedS wants a multi-server capable minecraft client
<hamitron> why? ;/
<hamitron> a distributed server network server mode would interest me more
<hamitron> merge existing server worlds into 1 big world sorta thing :D
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> in natty canberra-gtk-play seems to have disappeared, do you have the same problem?
 * dwatkins notes that the flash player update that fixes fullscreen playback on dual monitors is also available for linux
<dogmatic69> what was the issue there?
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: it would un-fullscreen when you clicked the other display, dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> cool
<dogmatic69> how about the 'picture freezes in full screen'
<dwatkins> I'm not aware of there being a problem with that, dogmatic69.
<dogmatic69> http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110101123009AAMo0et
<dwatkins> Does this happen reproducably on your system, dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: ye i even found a fix
<dogmatic69> i could not play full screen on anything, ff, chrome etc
<dwatkins> What's the fix, dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> any site, youtube, iplayer etc
<dwatkins> What was the fix?
<AlanBell> dwatkins: is that an update from adobe or is it sensibly packaged?
<AlanBell> or is it even a sensibly packaged update from adobe?
<dwatkins> it updated automatically on my machine, AlanBell, but I'm not running a linux at the moment
<dogmatic69> it was, right click -> display -> turn off hardware acceleration, then add a line (dont remeber) to a file (dont remeber) that disabled some validation in the data apparently and then restart browser and put the hardware acceleration back on
<dogmatic69> looking for the line added now
<dogmatic69> another one https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/686035
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 686035 in firefox (Ubuntu) "when I "fullscreen" youtube video,it stops" [Undecided,New]
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: it was on my laptop which the gfx is not proper supported also.
<dwatkins> AlanBell: it's available as an RPM or a DEB
<dwatkins> also a tar.gz or YUM, but those are a little less useful to us
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: were you using the stable release version of the player and the OS itself?
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: 10.10 all the updates and stuff from apt-get
<dwatkins> What hardware, specifically the graphics card, dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> not sure
<dwatkins> knowing that would really help, do you have the same issue on your current machine if you enable hardware acceleration, dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> sudo echo \"OverrideGPUValidation = 1\" >> /etc/adobe/mms.cfg
<dogmatic69> what can i run to get the hardware dump
<dwatkins> pastebin me an "lspci -vv" if you would, please
 * dwatkins notes you can stop youtube from automatically playing videos
<dogmatic69> bin.cakephp.org/view/425645868
<dogmatic69> that was the cmd i ran btw... and now it works
<dogmatic69> :)
<dwatkins> excellent, it shouldn't need acceleration turned off, that's what concerns me
<dogmatic69> i put it back on
<dwatkins> does the original problem still occur?
<dogmatic69> nope
<dogmatic69> it can now play in full screen
<dogmatic69> omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/06/fixing-fullscreen-flash-in-ubuntu-10-04
<dogmatic69> thats where i found the fix
<dwatkins> I'd be interested if it's still an issue in the new version, 10.2
<dwatkins> s/interested/interested to hear/
<dogmatic69> im updating now
<dogmatic69> i should just remove that line and try?
<dwatkins> yes, set it back to the default please
<dogmatic69> nope its broke
<dogmatic69> hmm
<dogmatic69> works in chrome
<dogmatic69> broken in ff still
<dogmatic69> never mind, just closed and opened full screen and its borked in chrome too
<dwatkins> I assume nothing much else is running and the video itself is downloaded okay, and the same machine is able to play fullscreen video ok in general, dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: i paste that line in the file F5 and it works, remove the line and F5 then it dont
<cps-thinkpad> afternoon
<dwatkins> The line containing "OverrideGPUValidation", dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> yip
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: I am concerned that means the problem resides with the driver and flash player interaction, but I don't know much about that level of things.
<dogmatic69> sounds like it
<dwatkins> I would probably need to talk to a gfx driver expert, are you able to tell me what exact graphics driver you have installed, dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> its a packard bell easynote
<dogmatic69> good luck finding *any* info on that
<brobostigon> xorgs llog should say whatdriver sis being used.
<dogmatic69> unless there are some linux commands, there is no data on the net for them
<dwatkins> as brobostigon says, and also the output of xdpyinfo and/or glxinfo, iirc
<dwatkins> you can just pipe them all into the pastebin command, I imagine
<dogmatic69> how?
<brobostigon> glxinfo | pastebinit
<brobostigon> | is a pipe.
<dwatkins> I have to go to a meeting, but will remain logged-in unless my server happens to experience a catastrophic failure...
<dogmatic69> glxinfo?
<dogmatic69> dont have that and apt-get dont know about it
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get intall glxinfo
<dogmatic69> xdpyinfo: pastebin.com/dJ0DmMYJ
<screen-x> !info mesa-utils
<lubotu3> mesa-utils (source: mesa-demos): Miscellaneous Mesa GL utilities. In component universe, is extra. Version 8.0.1-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 26 kB, installed size 132 kB
<dogmatic69> brobostigon: E: unable to locate package glxinfo
<screen-x> dogmatic69: its in mesa-utils
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: doas screen-x said, replace glxinfo with mesa-utils
<dogmatic69> glxinfo: pastebin.com/E1TVSQUC
 * screen-x enjoyed living in guidlford. 
<screen-x> err that'd be wrong window...
<danfish> screen-x: giudlford - is that the town where everyone is known by their own unique number rather than name :P
<danfish> hah - s/giud/guid :D
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> "i am not a number, i am a man!!" quote, number 6.
<screen-x> danfish: see what you did there ;-)
<screen-x> .   /nick 2e1384e1-099c-8daa-e368-bf24bd0fce41
<dutchie> making absolutely really sure you didn't accidentally run that one :P
<DJones> screen-x: Is that an IPV6 nick?
<danfish> 2e1384e1-099c-8daa-e368-bf24bd0fce41 <-- rolls off the tongue well doesn't it - can we just call you 2e for short?
<MartijnVdS> danfish: "e41"
<brobostigon> DJones: lol, :)
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> I'm trying to get a mail alias to run a script for me
<brobostigon> shwmae andylockran
<andylockran> at the moment it does it fine
<andylockran> however, I want the bash script to run ssh $remote -x /path/to/command/
<andylockran> I've setup ssh keys, but how do I run that command so that it picks up the ssh key for the right user?
<dutchie> andylockran: -i /path/to/ssh/key
<dutchie> or use .ssh/config
<andylockran> dutchie: ta
<andylockran>  :)
<andylockran> second question..
<andylockran> how can I parse the contents of the email using that script?
<andylockran> i.e. aliases says 247support: |/bin/support.sh
<Azelphur> Haha, android is about to become the #1 gaming portable
<Azelphur> HTC Just chucked 40 mill at OnLive
<screen-x> andylockran: I guess there are the two standard answers, use a library that does it properly, or just extract what you need with a bunch of regexes
<bigcalm> Any Brummies about atm?
<bigcalm> We're seeing Punt & Dennis at Birmingham Town Hall tonight. Which would be the best car park to use?
<cps> hello
<brobostigon> afternoonings cps :)
<cps> hey brobostigon, how's you? :)
<brobostigon> cps: tired, and worn out. how about you?
<cps> brobostigon, tired as well
<cps> couldn't sleep last night, which was a bit of a bother
 * brobostigon hugs cps 
 * cps hugs brobostigon back :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> cps: i havent been sleeping too well recently either,
<cps> brobostigon, yeah. I think the trip I went on 2 weeks ago would have something to do with it
<cps> went down to preston with my mates
<cps> had to get up at half four in the morning
<cps> I was tired when I got home but for some reason I couldn't sleep
<brobostigon> cps: yes, i think that migh have thrown your sleeping patterns out.
<cps> I often end up sleeping during the day
<brobostigon> makes sense, your body is still trying to keep up, when it cant. you need to straighten your sleep patterns out again.
 * brobostigon scp's cps a fresh pot of coffee.
<cps> thanks brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> you're welcome :)
<shauno> I wonder if it's sensible to be disappointed that my employer have changed my email address from a TLA, to something long and ugly :(
<cps> that'll be my thinkpad running out of battery power then
 * cps can't be bothered recharging it at the moment
<Azelphur> hmm, I think nautilus is leaking memory o.O
<Azelphur> It's using 1.7GB right now
<brobostigon> :(
<rowinggolfer_> Azelphur, that always happens to me when I browse .hidden in my Videos folder ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<rowinggolfer_> actually I'm loving F3 in nautilus
<BigRedS> F3?
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<dutchie> BigRedS: splits the window
<brobostigon> afternoonings pr0ph3t
<pr0ph3t> how do I add a kernel command asus_laptop.wwan_status=1 (asus_laptop is a module)?
<directhex> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT line in /etc/default/grub
<directhex> then update-grub
<AlanBell> directhex: what is your new ERP direction?
<pr0ph3t> thanks
<BigRedS> dutchie: ahhh
<directhex> AlanBell, project open. it's in tcl! need to trial it
<AlanBell> tcl, what fun
 * AlanBell tickles tcl
<czajkowski> tcl is not nice
<HazRPG> hey all :) \o
<brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: afternoon :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: Apparently my extension on google's site has "73" weekly users :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: cool, :)
<brobostigon> welldone.
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: what extention is that?
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: its basically an updated version of the Google RSS Subscribe extension to allow for programs you may have installed on your PC
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<HazRPG> so instead of just being able to subscribe to online RSS readers, you can pick say Juice for your podcasts
<HazRPG> main reason was because I was upset that there wasn't an extension to load up my RSS feeds into Juice
<HazRPG> https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/gmkbolemmamlpfbnieckhgaghdccmkhe?hl=en <==
<rowinggolfer_> BigRedS, F3 is the split pane view.
<pr0ph3t> hey all, do I close a bug report myself if I opened it or should I let someone else decide?
<pr0ph3t> bug #700627
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 700627 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Huawei E620/EM770 not working: Network Manager switches 3G modem radio off at boot" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/700627
<shauno> I think I'd be tempted to leave that one open for, so they can track whether that requires a fix that needs to be integrated  (assuming you're not the only person in the world with that ubuntu on an asus laptop, using that modem)
<AlanBell> looks like more of a workarround has been discovered rather than a fix
<AlanBell> ask in #ubuntu-bugs about it
<pr0ph3t> thanks will do
 * cps retreats to his bed
<cps> absolutely tired
<cps> o/
<brobostigon> good night cps :)
<davmor2> has everyone seen this http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2011/02/09/can-we-run-pc-pro-on-ubuntu/
<BigRedS> well of course they can
<davmor2> BigRedS: We know that :)   be interesting to follow and chip in with any help they may need though :)
<BigRedS> haha, I can't help but think the "can we 'really' run our PCs on Ubuntu" kinda keeps up this idea that you can't
<BigRedS> but I'm exposed less and less to people who don't already, I suppose
<daubers> Evening
<czajkowski> Myrtti: http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inspect-a-gadget/2011/02/breaking-nokia-hardware-to-adopt-windows-phone-7-instead-of-symbian-and-meego.html
<brobostigon> you can run android on an n900.
 * brobostigon thinks a chilli is in order.
<Myrtti> czajkowski: bft.
<Myrtti> czajkowski: I wonder why they are still hiring MeeGo engineers to Helsinki if they're dropping it
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> :(
<Myrtti> so, I doubt they are
<Myrtti> dropping it, I mean
<daubers> cor blimey, pre3 has a 1.4GHz processor in it
<MartijnVdS> pre3?
<daubers> Palm/HP Phone :)
<MartijnVdS> Ah, not a beta release :)
<daubers> Heh, that was the Pre 2
<dutchie> my last laptop was only 1.6GHz
<daubers> The WebOS tablet looks quite nice too
<daubers> http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/09/live-from-hp-palms-think-beyond-webos-event/?sort=newest&refresh=60 If you're interested
<Azelphur> Daviey: what happened?
<Azelphur> explosions D:
<Azelphur> Daviey: explosions? D:
<Azelphur> popey: care to send an SMS davieys way telling him katana.vpserve.com has 50% packet loss?
<Daviey> Azelphur, "Fun
<popey> i am not his secretary
<Azelphur> ah here he is anyway :P
<Daviey> popey, I wish you were.... :)
<popey> only on tuesdays
<popey> oh
<popey> i read that as "you wish you were"
<Azelphur> hehe
<mfraz74> popey: what's the release schedule for UUPC?
<popey> "soon"
<mfraz74> :)
<popey> :)
<popey> we're working on stuff at the moment
<popey> new website etc
<MartijnVdS> *\o/* UUPC people *\o/*
<popey> heh
<popey> we also have new segments planned :)
<popey> which should be fun
<czajkowski> ohh
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> sounds fun
<smittix> Evening all
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] LCA 2011 - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/133979.html
<Laney> the PS3 ITV player is So Badâ¢
<duvelhedz> I am glad it was hacked to run Linux again though
<domjohnson> duvelhedz - it was?
<domjohnson> Thats cool :)
<duvelhedz> Look up fail0verflow, geohot went and published the root key, cats out of the bag now for Sony.
<duvelhedz> No firmware updates will fix it now
<duvelhedz> Linux has been successfully run on a ps3 slim which never had the other OS to begin with
<domjohnson> lol
<domjohnson> Thats why Sony shouldn't p*ss off the Linux community :P
<duvelhedz> I agree, I wonder would one of the old PPC builds of ubuntu run on it
<duvelhedz> 7.04 was the last I think
<brobostigon> iwould go with debian, its much newer and uptodate powerpc build, and more mature,
<duvelhedz> It would be very powerful bit of hardware especially if graphics drivers can be written.
<duvelhedz> Sony never officially allowed access to the GPU of the console
<TheOpenSourcerer> Update on my Chilli growing: https://twitter.com/#!/opensourcerer/statuses/35449670033620992 :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time for a bit of TV and a G&T I think.
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well everyone,
<andy-f> quit
 * hamitron sighs
<dogmatic69> anyone know where mysql stores the raw db files?
<popey>  /var/lib/mysql isnt it?
<SuperMatt> why have I never seen this before? http://www.gotsars.com/view.php?id=5127
<dogmatic69> yes
<SuperMatt> sfw
<dogmatic69> thanks popey
<popey> np
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-10
<sprite> anyone know an irc channel i can go to for hp proliant support?
<siya> Evening all
<siya> Just had the weirdest thing
<siya> Making screen shots my Amarock indicator came up
<siya> Now my 2nd screen is zoomed into the active app (not F11 style)
<siya> and my mouse pointer is gone
<siya> Seems hitting F2 and running compiz gave me my mouse pointer back
<siya> then had to "mess" with the screen settings turning 2nd monitor off/on and changing resolutions on both several times has sorted it
<beagle> is there much updated from 10.041 to 10.10 it didnt look like it
<beagle> did they add video drivers
<beagle> its a pain setting up ubuntu
<beagle> atleast i wrote down how
<beagle> it wasnt much different when it had opengl either
<beagle> does it emulate directx as well
<beagle> as opengl
<MartijnVdS> !notwindows
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * MartijnVdS waits for mr electricity man (who will replace the entire electrical system in my house with one from this century)
<hoover> mornin all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
<hoover> mornin
<MooDoo> hello all
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> Good & Happy Thursday to all
<dwatkins> Hiya
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<DJones> czajkowski: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/10/job_site_breach/ Hope you weren't registered on this site
<dwatkins> ouch, that's not good - one more reason to use my smapbox (i.e. hotmail account) for such things
<dwatkins> also, spambox
<screen-x> morning :)
<screen-x> <-- should buy some mudguards
<MooDoo> morning
<DJones> screen-x: Or not go off-roading
<screen-x> DJones: was bad enough on the road this morning..
<DJones> screen-x: Just general rubbish on the roads or following a tractor type vehicle
<screen-x> DJones: Wasn't raining, but must have been raining over night, so roads had a film of water on the surface.
 * screen-x guesses python syslog interface
<JamesTait> Bore da!
<dwatkins> Aloha!
<screen-x> morning JamesTait  :)
<czajkowski> DJones: aye
<czajkowski> :(
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> lo
<s-fox> Hello.
<DJones> hi s-fox
<s-fox> Hello DJones . How are you?
<MooDoo> blimey what a morning
<DJones> s-fox: Not bad thanks, hows you
<screen-x> Whats going on MooDoo?
<MooDoo> screen-x: just busy...:)
<screen-x> while :; do todo=$(( $todo +1 )); done
<MooDoo> :)
<dwatkins> Is that not recursive?
<dwatkins> oh, I thought it would add the text, not perform maths.
<s-fox> I am okay thank you DJones , little tired but okay thank you.
<cps> morning peeps :)
<s-fox> Hello cps . How are you ?
<cps> s-fox, I'm alright, you?
<s-fox> Not too bad thank you, looking forward to Saturday :)
<s-fox> My birthday is on the monday, but friends are taking me out for dinner on saturday night. Also wales are coming to murrayfield on saturday, so generally in a good mood cps =)
<cps> cool :)
<dwatkins> The Drobo seems to be a really easy to use NAS, and makes me wonder if it would be possible to setup Ubuntu to allow automated rebuilds of md disks in an array in the same manner, but actually implement NFS and CIFS shares in an open fashion - does anyone know if this is already being done?
<popey> dwatkins: people have tried
<popey> <- one of those people
<dwatkins> popey: ah, I imagine it's not easy to automate it all, but in theory should be possible, no?
<Laney> Chaps
<shauno> it's certainly possible, else drobo wouldn't be doing it ;)
<Laney> If car A is trying to go straight on at a crossroads and car B is trying to turn right from the opposite side to car A, who has priority?
<AlanBell> Meeting Thursday February 10th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet
<dwatkins> shauno: true, but they seem to have closed clients
<screen-x> is snort still the IDS of choice?
<AlanBell> Laney: car A, unless there are lights
<AlanBell> I think
<AlanBell> did you get hit by car B?
<Laney> no, just honked at
<screen-x> Laney: yeah, car A, as they would have to cross the other carriage way
<BigRedS> Ah, but legal technicalities don't really have that much of an effect upon the way people drive
<Laney> yeah, well it's not really an uncommon situation
<shauno> I think if it's a 4-way stop, it's whoever got there first.  if there's no stops (signs/lights), then A has to have right of way in their own lane
<screen-x> do we even have 4 way stops?
<Laney> They are a US-ism AFAIK
<BigRedS> no, we have roundabouts
<dwatkins> in the US, you can turn right on a red signal
<screen-x> \o/ roundabouts
<shauno> that varies by state dwatkins :/
<dwatkins> shauno: ah ok, didn't know that
<BigRedS> I don't think i've ever seen that sort of response to a roundabout :)
<Laney> anyway yeah, I thought you always passed offside-to-offside unless directed
<dwatkins> magic roundabouts \o/ \o/
<Laney> so, /me basks in being right
<dwatkins> Laney: I agree
<shauno> I like right-on-red, until you're somewhere new and not sure if it's allowed or not
<screen-x> BigRedS: much more fun than traffic lights
<MooDoo> best round about i've seen is one in hemel hempstead
<shauno> I do like roundabouts with roundabouts on them.  they're fantastic foreigner-filters.  not so sure about lights on roundabouts tho
<AlanBell> I always shut my eyes when driving round the hemel one, it keeps me calmer
<AlanBell> when I don't have my peril sensitive sunglasses on
<MooDoo> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&source=embed&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=211041196340417400576.00047d206258b3bd79c9b&ll=51.745944,-0.473388&spn=0.002704,0.004823&t=h&z=18
<diplo> http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/content/image_galleries/wiltshire_live_search_gallery.shtml?15
<diplo> Swindons magic roundabout
<screen-x> diplo: wut?
<MooDoo> uh ho! popey goes ops
<screen-x> thats crazy
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday February 10th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | \o/ Chickens, minecraft, trains, cake & roundabouts
<diplo> God awful isn't it
<diplo> Got to be the worst ever
<Laney> I like how you can end up going backwards around it
<DJones> Can anybody explain this from teh BT website talking about estimated speed of broadband "BT always give you the best speed possible on your line.The speed prediction we have given here is an estimate.The actual speed is dependent on several factors such as the processing power of your computer"...How does the processing power of the computer affect the download speed?
<BigRedS> well, if they get fast enough your NIC could be a bottleneck...
<screen-x> DJones: its possible in the case of a USB ADSL modem
<shauno> used to get that with softmodems (glorified soundcards)
<dwatkins> DJones: if you have a slow PC it might have issues, but also BT's exchange regularly checks the capacity of the broadband connection and ramps it up or down depending on the quality/bandwidth - if you shut down your router over night, it will actually *slow* your broadband connection in general (which seems crazy but has been explained to me by a BT engineer in great detail)
<shauno> I imagine at the right speeds, things like throughput to disk could become real factors tho
<rowinggolfer> BT connection woes?
<DJones> And there was me thinking that the download speed would be independent of computer
<dwatkins> I wish my internet connection was that fast, shauno ;)
<dwatkins> DJones: it's a case of where the bottleneck[s] are/is
<DJones> dwatkins: True
<rowinggolfer> DJones, have you tried tweaking the MTU?
<dwatkins> if you have wifi, you might not get more than 10 MBit throughput, because that's about as much real-world speed you're going to get from 802.11g, I gather
<DJones> rowinggolfer: Its not me, my dad is looking to change from F2S/Tiscali/Opal to BT Broadband and asked me to have a look at it & that was just a comment on the bt website
<rowinggolfer> ah, ok. I jumped in half way through.
<dwatkins> I have BT at home, and have been in regular contact with their UK support department due to frequent drop-outs of my connection :-/
<dwatkins> BT broadband, that is
<shauno> it used to be that tiscali lines were just resold BT ones.  dunno if that's still the case.
<rowinggolfer> dwatkins, i had huge issues with my BT connection here until I lowered the MTU. I'm still wondering if I'm the only person that has found that to be of value
<dwatkins> bethere uses BT lines, but doesn't have quite so many bandwidth issues, somehow
<DJones> F2S used to be really good, but since they got bought by Tiscali, my dad's been getting a lot more problems & mostly seems to be problems with their equipment rather than the BT line
<rowinggolfer> dwatkins, ditto virgin.
<dwatkins> rowinggolfer: interesting, what did you lower it to, 1400?
<BigRedS> DJones: it's only the copper that's BT's
<rowinggolfer> dwatkins, in the end 512 :(
<dwatkins> wow, rowinggolfer
<BigRedS> Er, ^^ was aimed at dwatkins
<dwatkins> BigRedS: yeah, so I gather - I guess that means bethere have their own routers at the exchange
<BigRedS> yup
<popey> Daviey: etherpad seems to be down
<popey> can anyone else get to http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/2011plan
<s-fox> Failed for me
<Daviey> ah yes
<DJones> Service Temprarily Unavailable
<moreati> popey: I can reach Apache, which reports 'Service Temporarily Unavailable"
<Daviey> i knew that...
<rowinggolfer> anyone here use wmii2?
<screen-x> rowinggolfer: used to use wmii, now I use compiz + grid plugin :)
<andylockran> Howdy Peoples!
<andylockran> czajkowski: can I bring along a few peeps to the #ubuntu-uk-rugby meetup?  Making a weekend of it for my birthday celebrations.
<rowinggolfer> screen-x, ty looking
<czajkowski> sure
<czajkowski> andylockran: the more the merrier
<davmor2> morning all
<screen-x> !info compiz-fusion-plugins-extra |rowinggolfer
<lubotu3> None: compiz-fusion-plugins-extra (source: compiz-fusion-plugins-extra): Collection of extra plugins from OpenCompositing for Compiz. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.8.6-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 3494 kB, installed size 9736 kB
<andylockran> morning davmor2
<screen-x> rowinggolfer: has to be enabled in ccsm
<davmor2> hugs czajkowski to spread the ubuntu love
<czajkowski> andylockran: just update your acceptance to +number
<Daviey> popey, back
<andylockran> czajkowski: ok, ta
 * screen-x finds out how to get detailed cpu utilisation graphis in xymon/hobbit :)
<kazade> you guys watching the #ubuntupro hashtag?
<MartijnVdS> people watch hashtags?!
<kazade> PCPro have switched to Ubuntu for the day
<kazade> they are all micro-blogging about it and live blogging here: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2011/02/10/live-blog-running-pc-pro-on-ubuntu/
<kazade> so far it's not been great :/
<kazade> well, in fairness it doesn't sound like they did much prep
<davmor2> kazade: but the issues they are having are fairly minor to be fair
<davmor2> the biggest one is the video playback
<kazade> yeah, the graphics issue is the most severe one
<kazade> :)
<kazade> also the guy who has to reinstall each time he activates the ATI driver
<kazade> that's pretty bad
<MartijnVdS> you shouldn't enable the ATI driver unless you need a feature the free driver doesn't provide
<MartijnVdS> same with nvidia
<DJones> Heh "Canonical have found out about our Ubuntu experiment, and are sending over a support engineer
<DJones> I wonder who's missing from -uk irc today
<davmor2> kazade: he possibly doesn't need to install the driver to do what he needs throughout the day the free one works
<kazade> yeah, he said he wanted to try Compiz
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Maybe sabdfl is going over himself :)
<BigRedS> DJones: Doesn't that defy the point slightly?
<kazade> BigRedS, I don't think so. If you have trouble with Windows, you turn to someone who knows about it.. it's just with Windows that's pretty much any techie within reach
<davmor2> DJones: weren't support engineers :P  there are a couple in the millbank office though iirc
<DJones> BigRedS: I don't think it would, if a commercial organisation was to change to ubuntu, there's probably a good chance they'd take out a support contract which I'd think would offer a support engineer if necessary
<davmor2> BigRedS: They are making a list of everything the engineer does and to be honest I don't think he'll be raced off his feet
<kazade> That guy with the graphics issues is now having problems with his updates
<BigRedS> Yeah, it's just that, publicly at least, it looks like "we can switch to ubuntu if Canoical send along some of their finest"
<kazade> he can only boot into an old kernel
<BigRedS> I'd just prefer it if they didn't end up needing them, or could do it all from IRC/google/forums.
<BigRedS> though, admittedly, they probably need to get some work done, too :)
<DJones> Perhaps somebody should put a reply to their twitter/email & invite them into -uk to get assistance as well
<n1md4> Hello.  Has anyone set up heartbeat before?  I'm playing around with some config, but can't quite get it right. http://pastebin.com/TF8jecAH if you can help.
<DJones> Or maybe they're already here spying on us
<davmor2> BigRedS: to be honest on office based rollouts you probably have some one proficient set it all up anyway,  they all seem to be using wubi which can have issues anyway but on the whole should just work
<screen-x> wubi wubi wubi wubi ahh ahh ahh ahh ahahhhhhhhhhhh
<BigRedS> davmor2: Yeah, I just wanted it to be a better propaganda excercise :)
<DJones> n1md4: Can't say I've heard of heartbeat, if you don't get an response here it might be worth asking in #ubuntu
<rapha> Hi all
<screen-x> DJones: heartbeat is for HA/failover, but I've never used it.
<rapha> Funny, that PCPro experiment ...
<screen-x> rapha: yeah, we've just been talking about it :)
<rapha> screen-x: bit unfair though - their Windowses are already set up and all, and Ubuntu they need to configure for themselves first
<screen-x> rapha: yeah
<screen-x> rapha: they'd have many problems if they all arrived at work with wiped machines, and had to setup a windows network from scratch
<kazade> tech support from canonical has arrived
<kazade> they are working on that graphic card problem
<screen-x> I wonder who they sent..
<kazade> Â£Our tech support from @gerrycanonical has arrived. Mike Jennings' graphics cards is his first challenge... #ubuntuproÂ£
<rapha> also what's with "trying to find an IM tool" - they're going at this with a Windows mentality, assuming there wasn't one built in
<screen-x> rapha: though they do mention pidgin higher up
<rapha> yeah but pidgin is NOT the one that's built in
<rapha> shouldn't have had to install anything at all
<kazade> I don't think that the messaging menu is as prominent as it should be on first run
<Laney> applications -> internet?
<kazade> if you don't know it exists you would go looking for stuff like that
<kazade> Laney, fair point :)
<rapha> maybe not, but then, if i installed win7 for the first time, stuff wouldn't be obvious either
<kazade> god Gwibber sucks
<rapha> can anyone imagine what mikejennings did to get "dozens of error messages" after updating? i never ever got that
<BigRedS> it's entirely possible that he's under the impression that any output at all is an error message
<BigRedS> it is incomprehensible unless you actually read it, and many people don't like reading it
<BigRedS> Oh, or he could've used the clicky interface...
<kazade> I still reckon that Ubuntu needs to be more robust when it comes to borked graphics..
<rapha> hmm yeah i've had that problem when installing older ubuntu versions on people's computers
<rapha> but 10.10 doesn't really show any output during booting
<kazade> really, it shouldn't be possible to stop your PC booting by clicking that "Activate driver" button
<kazade> I think we might see a few people joining the channel :)
<DJones> kazade: Just noticed the hint on twitter
<rapha> the only prob i've ever had with graphics drivers is with the 11.04 alpha with my Sandy Bridge built-in graphics
<screen-x> sandybridge eh?
<rapha> yeah
<kazade> rapha, you obviously weren't around when Breezy came out ;)
<screen-x> rapha: any stat issues?
<rapha> i've been using ubuntu since the first version
<rapha> screen-x: stat?
<screen-x> oops s/stat/sata/
<rapha> screen-x: yeah, can't get Windows XP to work with AHCI
<directhex> rapha, got a calendar handy?
<rapha> directhex: i use my phone for that, sorry
<rapha> directhex: try Sunbird yet?
<directhex> rapha, usefully, my computer informs me of the required data, i.e. which year it is
<rapha> rather, Lightning, as it is called now
<screen-x> rapha: I dont think AHCI is supported in XP, unless you have a specific driver.
<rapha> directhex: well, mine does that, too :-D - upper right corner, don't need no calendar for that
<directhex> XP is a decade old. decade-old OS in "doesn't magically love <decade old hardware"
<rapha> screen-x: well, one did come with the mainboard...
<directhex> if we stuck with old technology, nothing would ever improve. much like IE6 did for years.
<rapha> screen-x: but you probably were referring to the chipset problems; those apparently only apply for the slower 3GB/s SATA ports
<screen-x> rapha: ah ok :)
<rapha> directhex: need XP for some legacy apps ... it's okay though - just need to change to IDE in the BIOS
<screen-x> rapha: or use a VM, sounds like quite a spiffy machine
<directhex> ...
<directhex> using IDE emulation on a modern system makes baby jesus cry
<screen-x> directhex: its ok, it didnt happen, there are no disks, just an iSCSI connection to a RAM SAN
<rapha> screen-x: tell me once you get graphics acceleration to work in VirtualBox
<screen-x> I thought that worked in v4?
<rapha> screen-x: maybe i should try again, then
<directhex> no NCQ in IDE mode, iirc
<nigelb> Ahoy Ukers
<moreati> ahoy
<morleypotter> Hi all, Just a (potentially) quickie if you don't mind please?
<andylockran> sure
<morleypotter> thanks
<BigRedS> (long questions are acceptable, too)
<morleypotter> when running Ubuntu desktop from a external disk, is it possible to power it down when idling without causing any problem?
<morleypotter> @bigreds - lol
<nigelb> Anyone build a cool app they want to showcase during Ubuntu Developer week? :)
<screen-x> morleypotter: potter power down the external disk? and by idle do you mean suspend to disk?
<morleypotter> sorry - yes power down the disk, but not suspend as such. [I have Ubuntu running on a 3.5 disk in a caddy linked to my Joggler and it's getting a bit warm!]
<screen-x> morleypotter: which partitions/mounts are on the external disk?
<morleypotter> 1 partition, no swap, mounted at /.
<moreati> morleypotter: I don't think that would be safe. Ubuntu would see it as a disconnection without unmount, which risks corrupting data on the disk
<screen-x> morleypotter: yeah, not a good idea to disconnect the root partition.
<screen-x> morleypotter: even if it was ok, you'd struggle to find a mount binary to mount it after reconnection
<morleypotter> right, ok, i assumed it would work like an internal disk though?
<Oli``> Any Sound Ninjas around? System crashed today and now PulseAudio won't add my sound card as a sink, leaving me with no sound. When I start PA manually it thinks the card is busy. There's more detail here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/25622/my-sound-stopped-working-today-how-can-i-fix-it
<moreati> morleypotter: and disconnect/powering down an internal disk like that would also be bad
<morleypotter> hmmm...
<morleypotter> will it be doing any damage to the disk leaving it on all the time?
<moreati> morleypotter: point of clarification - exactly want did you mean by powering down the disk?
<morleypotter> I probably could have explained myself better, apologies.
<morleypotter> basically my concern is damaging the disk, so i assumed i could stop the disk spinning when the o/s is idling.
<moreati> morleypotter: By what means, unplugging the power?
<morleypotter> no, by using some sort of power save mode, or something already built in to Ubuntu.
<moreati> morleypotter: Now I'm not following you. You want the computer to continue running, but the disk to be not spinning. Ubuntu should automatically allow the disk to spin down *when there is no disk activity*
<morleypotter> I thought that, but I can feel the disk "moving" everytime I check and the caddy is now really warm to the touch (has been on for 48 hours now)
<moreati> What are you running on the machine?
<DJones> I wonder whether the settings for the screensaver might help, there is an option on teh power management tab to spin down hard disks when possible
<moreati> (by that I mean what programs/services does the machine run/provide?)
<morleypotter> It has Skype on it, which may keep it going. other than that a private web server (rarely accessed)
<rowinggolfer> kazade, that live blog is damn positive IMO.
<morleypotter> no odd services, it's a fairly new install
<moreati> morleypotter: Skype could cause regular disk activity. If left running it can use the machine as a node in the skype network - for routing calls or something
<morleypotter> I didn't think of anything like that until you just mentioned it.
<dwatkins> That reminds me, I should check how to monitor disk usage with 'sar'.
<moreati> morleypotter: finding such programs can be a game of whack-a-mole
<morleypotter> I'll try turning it off, and check it in a while
<morleypotter> how long do you think it should take to spin down?
<dwatkins> The system will modify each file every time it is accessed unless the filesystem its on is mounted with 'noatime'
<dwatkins> So if you have any cron jobs running, or any processes at-all with files they are writing to, the disk will be very unlikely to spin down
<morleypotter> @dwatkins - How can i check that? with sar?
<dwatkins> morleypotter: sorry but I don't know an easy way of doing this, it depends what you are running - is it a minimal server, or a desktop machine, i.e. with a GUI?
<dwatkins> at least if it's not running anything graphical there's less that it will be doing
<moreati> dwatkins: given Skype, it' a GUI machine
<morleypotter> It's a desktop install, it has to be so i can access the original features of the joggler
<dwatkins> ah yes, moreati
<dwatkins> morleypotter: you could start by looking at the output of this command at the terminal: /usr/sbin/lsof
<dwatkins> The entries which relate to things in /dev are less likely to cause disk activity, but it's worth looking at the rest to see what's being run
<morleypotter> Thanks dwatkins
<dwatkins> morleypotter: the 2nd column is process ID, you can grep the 'ps -ef' output for those numbers, have fun :)
<moreati> morleypotter: This  should tell how your disk is mounted: cat /etc/mtab | grep ' / '
<moreati> If noatime or relatime aren't mentioned, then every disk read actually results in a write as well.
<Oli``> Anybody have an idea what might be causing arecord to run as root all the time? It's blocking my sound card and I don't know why it's running in the first place
<morleypotter> moreati, dwatkins - I really appreciate your help, I've got a lot to be getting on with then. I'll report back shortly - Thanks again.
 * moreati notes his / partition isn't mounted (no|rel)atime and wonders whether the above is wrong
<moreati> I'd assumed that the Ubuntu partitioner/setup set one of those as a default
<popey> thanks Daviey
<morleypotter> moreati: output of the command you suggested, all seems ok then for me? /dev/sda2 / ext4 rw,noatime,errors=remount-ro 0 0
<morleypotter> dwatkins: /usr/sbin/lsof returns 'no such file or directory'
<moreati> morleypotter: indeed that is a fine setting - reads won't become writes
<moreati> morleypotter: just lsof, it's actually in /usr/bin/lsof
<morleypotter> oh, i see, sorry.
<morleypotter> moreati: That's a lot of information!
<moreati> One of the #ubuntupro tweets is asking about swapping the window buttons back. Is Ubuntu Tweak a good suggestion these days? The download page mentions nothing after Karmic
<DJones> !controls
<lubotu3> In Lucid, the minimize, maximize, and close buttons have been moved to the left side. For more information, please see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/comments/564 | To move them back to the right-hand side, see http://sites.google.com/site/alucidfs/how-i-do/move-buttons-to-right-side
<DJones> moreati: That last link should be the answer
<DJones> I've already replied to that one with the link
<moreati> DJones: Fair enough, I was thinking Windows IT types might prefer the TweakUI-ness of UT
<moreati> in fact i was very beaten by several :)
<dogmatic69> any recommendations (apps etc) for using amazon on ubuntu
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: doing what? compute or storage? backups or general access?
<dogmatic69> general access
<dogmatic69> login, download etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: A web browser?
<dogmatic69> i only have the key/secret thing
<dogmatic69> no username/pw
<moreati> dogmatic69: Banshee is good for Amazon MP3
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was joking ;-) You mean Amazon EC2 rather then the online shop I take it?
<dogmatic69> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/then/than
<dogmatic69> is BigRedS the only one that is with me today :D
<screen-x> dogmatic69: there is at least one fuse filesystem for s3
<dogmatic69> i just need the name, apt-get <something>
<moreati> dogmatic69: what are you after? Something to run inside your EC2 instance, or something to run on your desktop for managing EC2 instances?
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: duplicity is a backup tool for ec3
<dogmatic69> like i said, just want to download files off it
<BigRedS> but it's not a good tool for using it as an attached disk
<screen-x> dogmatic69: http://code.google.com/p/s3fs/wiki/FuseOverAmazon
<BigRedS> I don't think I've ever come across a prebuilt way of doing that. It's quite easy to write, though
<BigRedS> Oh, screen-x has :)
<BigRedS> I've never looked, thinking about it
<screen-x> There is a package here, but it may not be very mature: https://launchpad.net/~zlj/+archive/test-daily/+buildjob/1815814
<dwatkins> moreati: sorry, I was checking from a different distro
<moreati> dwatkins: np, no harm done
 * dwatkins considers an S3 account for backups
<bastubis> stupid question - how to I edit the events list?
<DJones> bastubis: Do you mean the 2011 events list/plan?
<bastubis> this: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk/events
<bastubis> or is that not the right one?
<DJones> bastubis: If so, just go to http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/2011plan
<DJones> Ah, that one I linked was the suggestions for things to do this year
<bastubis> No, this is something ubuntu-related we're running, just to let people know
<DJones> Give me a sec
<bastubis> no probs :)
<DJones> bastubis: I'm not sure if users can edit those pages
<DJones> Maybe popey AlanBell or Daviey would know about that
<s-fox> Anyone keeping an eye on pc pro today?
<Daviey> bastubis, are you logged in?
 * s-fox is enjoying the running commentry on their blog 
<DJones> s-fox: Yep
<DJones> s-fox: Its quite interesting, along with the occasional discussions in here
 * s-fox got a mention in their twitter DJones , lmao
<bastubis> yes, I'm logged into launchpad with open ID - do I need an admin login?
<s-fox> DJones,  http://twitter.com/#!/pcpro/status/35695582102159360
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> Ugh, why don't people know the difference between their username and their password for logging into things
<bastubis> what'd I do?
<dwatkins> That's pretty fundamental, DJones :-/
<screen-x> DJones: I had to help someone the other day who couldnt open a directory with acrobat reader
<moreati> DJones: easy solution: set them both to the same value
<DJones> moreati: You mean like password & password
<moreati> yeah, or djones and djones :)
<DJones> Heh
<dwatkins> I've used systems (admittedly inside a corporate network, so not much of a security risk) which had username == password
<DJones> When my dad registered for his broadband, he had problems getting it set up & rang the ISP, they did it for him and set the password as "password"
<DJones> (for the online ISP website/account)
<shauno> we have a system where the default new user is username==password.  and a manager who delights in logging into people's accounts and giving them new passwords
<shauno> having to call him up and ask him what he set your password to is a lesson you only learn once :)
<AlanBell> hi bastubis
<bastubis> hiya
<AlanBell> bastubis: reading back you want to add an event to the loco directory?
<bastubis> Don't know if you recognise my nick, I'm Paula from Fossbox
<AlanBell> yeah, I know
<AlanBell> so here http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk
<bastubis> OK :)
<AlanBell> you should see an Add New Event link at the top below the main header buttons
<AlanBell> if you are logged in
<bastubis> yes, /events
<bastubis> I'm logged into launchpad
<bastubis> using open ID
<AlanBell> which takes you here http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/ubuntu-uk/add/
<AlanBell> not /events, below that
<bastubis> You can not add a new event for this team. You are not member of the team or on the LoCo Council.
<AlanBell> ooooh
<bastubis> it did some grumbling when I logged in with openID
<AlanBell> what is your launchpad name?
<DJones> Looks like it'd work for me, I've got to the Add new Team Even for Ubuntu UK page
<bastubis> normally it's bastubis but I used the fossbox openID
<bastubis> thinking it would avoid confusion :D
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~bastubis nope
<bastubis> hmm
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/ top right it should show your name
<AlanBell> next to the log out button
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~pmg-gmx
<AlanBell> found it ;)
<AlanBell> you need to join the UK team on launchpad
<bastubis> ooook
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk
<bastubis> i logged out of openID and loggedback in as bastubis
<AlanBell> yeah, but the launchpad ID of bastubis is pmg-gmx
<bastubis> yes - I should never have confused the issue by using my fossbox openID lol
<bastubis> ok, I've now logged in with the same email addie I use for the list
<bastubis> and applied to join the team
<AlanBell> yay
<bastubis> I generally manage to confuse myself doing this kind fo thing ;)
<AlanBell> X3N will shortly approve that no doubt
<bastubis> OK thanks!
<AlanBell> then you will be able to add events on loco directory
<bastubis> Good - it's only just occurred to me that it might be a good thing to do ;)
<bastubis> mmmm lunch
<AlanBell> it is an excellent thing to do
<bastubis> Indeed - I don't know why I didn't think of doing it before!
<bastubis> It was really helpful to meet you guys, easier to engage when you can put faces on people
<AlanBell> yes, real world events are great
<AlanBell> should be interesting, RMS is quite a character http://www.ffsuk.org.uk/rms2011/
<DJones> AlanBell: Character is one of describing him, I can't get over this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C6r6fG4k40&feature=fvw or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t96m2ynKw0
<AlanBell> various videos of him leave a lasting impression
 * AlanBell waits for someone to link to the toe cheese one
<DJones> NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<screen-x> AlanBell: that sounds nasty
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ
<popey> there you go
 * AlanBell doesn't click
<DJones> I'm actually hoping that that is a link to a Rick Astley video
<popey> damnit
<popey> missed opportunity
<stuphi> For those that don't want to watch it all, 1:56
<popey> lol
<bigcalm> Ewwwwwwwwwww
<bigcalm> Ew ew ew ew
<stuphi> I think I need a new keyboard, I have just messed this one.
<bigcalm> This video can help in weight loss only as part of a callorie controled diet
 * AlanBell wonders if the PC pro team have arrived
<AlanBell> if so, don't click the link
<kazade> PC Pro engineer mystery solved: "Meet Jonathan Davies (who weâve been mistakenly calling âJohnâ on the blog all day, like a bunch of Del Boys addressing a foreign barman), our Canonical tech support chap for the day"
<DJones> Even with a picture http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/JonDavies.JPG
<dwatkins> DJones: Why is he dancing with a laptop in the first video you pasted about 20 minutes ago?
<DJones> dwatkins: Good question
<dwatkins> I think I need the mind-bleach now
<screen-x> dwatkins: look at the flashy thing
<screen-x> *FLASH*
<screen-x> you saw nothing
 * dwatkins looks blankly at screen-x 
<bastubis> Well, he's got good company in the MIT vid lol
<dwatkins> Hello there, where am I?
<screen-x> dwatkins: you are at your desk
<dwatkins> ah ok
<screen-x> dwatkins: you have not seen any videos yet today
<dwatkins> *shuffles papers*
<screen-x> dwatkins: time to file a tps report
<DJones> I hope dwatkins doesn't have a laptop on his desk, it might bring back bad memories
<bastubis> Evolution crashes every time I alter the priority on a task
<AlanBell> go jpds \o/
<dwatkins> ah yes, screen-x
<Joeb454> jpds: hope things are going ok at pcpro :P
<davmor2> 3 cheers for jpds running out of issue hip, hip, you know the rest..... jpds good job that man
<MooDoo> davmor2: er what? lol
<AlanBell> MooDoo: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2011/02/10/live-blog-running-pc-pro-on-ubuntu/
<davmor2> MooDoo: We ran out of problems for Jon to solve, so heâs popped back to Canonical HQ with our thanks.
<MooDoo> cool
 * czajkowski stabs MooDoo and kicks davmor2 
 * popey reports czajkowski for CoC violation!
<davmor2> haha
 * MooDoo backs away from czajkowski then goes and give her a kiss on the cheek
 * czajkowski frowns at popey 
<czajkowski> really...
<czajkowski> :(
 * czajkowski goes back to her caramel cake 
<screen-x> \o/ cake
<davmor2> czajkowski: share the cake and we let you off with a warning ;)
 * screen-x just had 2nd lucnh
<MooDoo> davmor2: oi no, she's back to normal now, lets pound her back :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: Shhh not while popey is threatening CoC ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah ok :)  /me hugs czajkowski
<jpds> czajkowski: Sounds unhealthy.
 * czajkowski pokes popey see they do it too 
<MooDoo> czajkowski: why so grumpy this afternoon?
<screen-x> jpds: Whats are the pcpro offices like?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: I'm not I even just booked tomorrow of work
<czajkowski> as in I'm not doing any work tomorrow
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ah ok...carry on poking then
<jpds> MooDoo: No, the joke is "czajkowski: Why so Sirius?".
<jpds> screen-x: Like... an office.
<MooDoo> jpds: badum tish
<czajkowski> jpds: oh gods
<czajkowski> :(
<MooDoo> jpds: or i should of said sirius-ly?
<screen-x> jpds: insightful ;-)
<DJones> screen-x: Looking at the photo on the pcpro blog, I'd say the offices were "messy"
<davmor2> MooDoo: you spoke and czajkowski went into a rage ;)
 * screen-x listens to the pcpro podcast (while uupc is hibernating)
<popey> its quite good
<popey> I listen to it
<popey> although one of them does like to put the boot in about ubuntu, which is balanced by another who really likes it
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski loves me.....or is that loath?
 * davmor2 hands the mic over to czajkowski for a love loath update
<MooDoo> davmor2: must be love...lost for words, or mouth stuffed with cake
<czajkowski> CAKE
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh tres cool if you're an OEM: http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/catalog
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: interesting, the wifi card in my Eee is listed but the audio card is not :)
<popey> http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/catalog/search?form.search_text=apple&search=Search
<popey> :(
<dwatkins> I'm waiting to see if it's possible to triple-boot a Macbook, popey
<popey> i dont see why not
<popey> i dual boot mine
<popey> triple is just one more partition and entry for refit
<dwatkins> indeed, I just don't know what hardware is supported in terms of the wifi, sound etc.
<popey> oh, I see.
<dwatkins> I know Windows will run on it
<dwatkins> just not sure about Ubuntu
<popey> I run Ubuntu on mine
<dwatkins> oh excellent, is everything (camera included) working well enough?
<popey> well enough :)
<shauno> I never did get my trackpad in line, but there is a whole slew of info at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook
<dwatkins> thanks shauno
<czajkowski> AlanBell: wont be at meeting tonight may want to plug the bug jam event in april
<AlanBell> will do
 * AlanBell hums Just the two of us http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/687/detail/
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: wow.. I thought "I know that name..."
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "Weybridge was the location of a battle in which a Martian fighting machine was destroyed."
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: (I've just re-read WotW)
<AlanBell> they landed in Woking
<popey> there's one still there :)
<popey> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Woking_tripod.JPG
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Woking_tripod.JPG
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> oh wow :)
 * popey is going to Woking on saturday
<MartijnVdS> Hm.. a web shop that only ships after threatening to complain to their payment processor
<MartijnVdS> interesting
<czajkowski> I got lost again today in Woking
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: but you got out (or are you ircing from a mobile device?)
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> from work
<czajkowski> spo all good
<davmor2> czajkowski: you got lost at work man that must be a huge office ;)
<MichealH> Options Evening tonight :D
<MichealH> Im excited :P
<bastubis> home!
<gr33npeace> afternoon all.  Following the update today, the flash plugin for chromium crashes with gmail everytime I load it...
<gr33npeace> ...anyone else experiencing this?
<MartijnVdS> gr33npeace: flash crashes randomly for me, not just on gmail
<Myrtti> I want to play minecraft but I'm too tired :-(
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: write a bot to play it for you
<gr33npeace> MartijnVdS: is this since the update?  I mean... I've had problems before with youtube etc, but normally it's *mostly* ok
<MartijnVdS> gr33npeace: I don't know, I'm running the alpha version (natty)
<MartijnVdS> gr33npeace: lots of other things are also broken
<gr33npeace> MartijnVdS: ah!! ok thanks man
<AlanBell> popey: I wonder if the pcpro peeps discovered minecraft
<shauno> we don't find out for about 20 hours, when they look up and discover what time it is
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ...
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<shauno> MartijnVdS: that's what my first minecraft session looked like :p
<TheOpenSourcerer> hello from monty (6)
<AlanBell> o/ Monty
<AlanBell> what have you been doing today Monty?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have been telling the time with mummy
 * AlanBell hands over to Kieran
<KieranBell> hello
<TheOpenSourcerer> o/ kieran
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am a O:-)
<KieranBell> I had sausages
<MartijnVdS> \o
<KieranBell> Daddy cooked them
<MartijnVdS> KieranBell: were they as good as my pizza? or better?
<TheOpenSourcerer> we are having macaroni cheese
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: sounds like an Italian night as well :)
<KieranBell> They were as good as pizza
<TheOpenSourcerer> KieranBell: Do you want to come to my house to play sometime?
<ZMo> hi, how can i prevent apache user to execute php code in a <Directory>?
<KieranBell> YES PLEASE
<MartijnVdS> ZMo: do you want to run it as another user, or not at all?
<TheOpenSourcerer> ok i will ask mummy to ask your mummy
<ZMo> MartijnVdS, not at all
<MartijnVdS> ZMo: and only a specific directory? or everywhere? (just making sure I understand the problem)
<BigRedS> ZMo: You could add a bogus filehandler. That'd break any PHP, so you'd not even be able to download the script. You'd get a server error message
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you can also "unset" the php handler in <Directory> blocks I think
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right! It's time for tea for the Lords. Laterz
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> o/
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I'm just googling along those lines :)
<ZMo> MartijnVdS, i think you've right
<MartijnVdS> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1271899/disable-php-in-directory-including-all-sub-directories-with-htaccess
<MartijnVdS> ha! easy
<Jibadeeha> can you put an old broken laptop in a wheelie bin or is that big no no cos of the mercury in the product?
<MartijnVdS> php_flag engine off
<MartijnVdS> ZMo: ^^
<MartijnVdS> check that stackoverflow page
<ZMo> MartijnVdS, yes im reading
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: RemoveHandler
<ZMo> MartijnVdS, anyway its what i was looking for
<BigRedS> Ah, I think that's already been found
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Stackoverflow â¥
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I used some dead tree :)
<s-fox> Goodbye.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> Daviey: http://paste.ubuntu-uk.org/
<AlanBell> Unable to connect to database
<Daviey> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/
<Daviey> AlanBell, *
<AlanBell> oh, cool, thanks
 * AlanBell fails
<Myrtti> GROAR hungry
<gord> i echo the previous sentiment
<daubers> \o/ The wifes just gone to cook dinner
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I have this gnome panel which I wanted to replace with cairo-dock, so I removed everything on it and moved it to the side of the screen. Now I can't use it anymore, I can see it on the side of the screen but it won't pop-up when I hover my mouse over it and right clicking does nothing. I also tried stopping the process but it starts another one automatically
<pr0ph3t> I just wanted to add the systray on that since the cairo-dock one is a bit funny
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: log out of the graphical environment, then in a terminal (Ctrl+Alt+F1) do:
<MartijnVdS> gconftool â -recursive-unset /apps/panel
<pr0ph3t> and when I try to start another one it tells me one is already running
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/panel
<MartijnVdS> then log back in
<pr0ph3t> ok, thanks
<MartijnVdS> then the panel should be back to "factory default"
<maco> !resetpanels
<lubotu3> To reset the gnome panel to defaults, type this in a !terminal: Â« gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel Â»
<MartijnVdS> maco: oh they told the bot how to do it :)
<maco> yep
<pr0ph3t> great stuff thanks
<smittix> Evening all.
<danfish> evenin'
<MartijnVdS> \o
<andylockran> <o
<MartijnVdS> Guest40317: still haven't fixed irssi then? :)
<Guest40317> Oh for goodness sake!
<Guest40317> MartijnVdS: bah
<MartijnVdS> Guest40317: my config bit didn't work?
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: to be honest I forgot. :(
<issyl0> \o/
<MartijnVdS> ok this is just bad
<MartijnVdS> Two Rod Stewart songs on at the same time (one on VH1 and one on the vault)
<iclebyte> evening
<hcfd> o/
<smittix> BES Express is a pain in the rear end
<popey> meeting started in #ubuntu-uk-meeting now
<itf> Hi guys, inspired by the PC Pro experiment, I'm trying Ubuntu.
<Baikonur> hi
<freesitebuilder> how's it going?
<itf> Earlier in the day somebody posted a link which explained some small tweaks - it included making the fonts smaller and a package with handy things (Flash and some other things I think)
<itf> I can't find that link.
<itf> It's going way better than last time I tried Ubuntu. Once I got the network up and running it's been pretty smooth so far.
<itf> Basically it was (and I will get the terminology wrong, I'm sure) something that had 'lots of dependencies' (or something like that) but wasn't a program in itself, but it would install a few useful bits.
<popey> itf: ubuntu-restricted-extras
<popey> that was probably the package you were after
<itf> That might be it. I'll go look for it. Thanks.
<freesitebuilder> logs from earlier today for Ubuntu-UK http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/10/%23ubuntu-uk.html
<itf> Thanks guys. I just found the link I meant on Twitter http://blazemore.blogspot.com/2011/02/message-to-pc-pro-team.html
<itf> OK, so I've installed ubuntu restricted extras now. I've not rebooted. Youtube is still asking for Flash (using Chrome)
<itf> Any clues? Or does it just need a reboot?
<MartijnVdS> itf: you might have to restart the browser
<pr0ph3t> re all
<iclebyte> evenin
<pr0ph3t> I have a question about icons and pointers, I copied all of them in /usr/share/icons, but still the themes are not applied "system wide"
<pr0ph3t> is there something I need to update to do that?
<iclebyte> yea theme support isn't great
<pr0ph3t> not really, you can customise everything to the smallest detail in ubuntu
<pr0ph3t> just I don't know why my cursor theme changes depending on the window I navigate and the icons are not applied to all
<daubers> Evening
<daubers> Anyone have any idea when the next nvidia driver is landing in natty? Got loads of xorg packages waiting in the queue to update
<MartijnVdS> nevar! :)
<daubers> That makes me a sad bunny :(
 * phillw here as requested.
<moreati> MartijnVdS: was that in jest, or has something significant happened wrt to Natty and Nvidia?
<MartijnVdS> moreati: nah, nvidia just havent caught up with Xorg yet
<MartijnVdS> moreati: natty has the new xorg
<MartijnVdS> same old story basically :)
<AlanBell> Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday February 10th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | \o/ Chickens, minecraft, trains, cake & roundabouts
<moreati> righto, you had me worried with 'nevar!' :)
<MichealH> afail
<MichealH> AlanBell: fail :P
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 3rd 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | \o/ Chickens, minecraft, trains, cake & roundabouts
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> because tab didn't work I copied and pasted and failed
<MichealH> <MichealH> afail << That was a fail at tabbing your nick :P
 * AlanBell hugs popey 
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> um, may be some bits left to un-break
<popey> gimme a chance :)
<popey> I am working on it
<popey> refresh now
<popey> whats broken?
<AlanBell> links in the top that I put there
<popey> ok
<popey> they should be relative not absolute
<popey> I'll fix them
<popey> or you can :)
<AlanBell> fixed, I think
<AlanBell> it was the site URL on the general settings
<popey> ah
<popey> looks good
<TOSDroid> The logo slides under the menu on my streak...
<TOSDroid> In landscape.
<phillw> AlanBell: you wanted a UBT master / mentor to interview?
<popey> hmm, links broken
 * popey fiddles with apache
<bigcalm> popey: I thought you were one for lighthttpd?
<popey> i am
<popey> but right now the box has apache2
<bigcalm> Poor thing
<webpigeon_web> and a few tents :P
<shauno> ooh, gtk 3.0.0 is released.  good stuff.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-11
<andylockran> oh my gosh
<andylockran> if there's one reason to learn asterisk properly it's that support for other approaches is severely lacking.
<andylockran> and I hate flame wars :(
<andylockran> any recommendations for a router with a decent range
<andylockran> & good at going through old walls :p
<andylockran> -80 dBm for both wireless APs in the house at the moment, one is downstairs in the conservatory and the next is on the 1st floor in the study - but signal where I am is terrible.  We've got the HomePlugs - but ideally want wireless for all our handheld devices (ipad, ipod, android .etc)
<HazRPG> I just thought - based on the website for #ubuntu-uk, I'm the only one in the north of england
<andylockran> if someone could ping me a reply tomorrow that'd be very useful - thanks!
<shauno> aww, the uuk site has (very) mild breakage on mine :(
<HazRPG> shauno: really?
<HazRPG> like where?
<shauno> 'loco directory' doesn't fit in it's box in the header menu, because I've got an enforced minimum font size
<shauno> I did say very mild ;)
<HazRPG> andylockran: btw dude, just get yourself a bigger antenna for your existing router - you'd be surprised how much wonders that will do ya
<shauno> (I'm not exactly blind, but my screen has a silly native resolution; I have to bump the fonts to be able to read)
<HazRPG> shauno: ouch, what resolution are you pumping out of your screen?
<shauno> 1600x1200
<shauno> in what I believe is 19", possibly 21
<HazRPG> why not just use  1280x1024 ?
<shauno> because then icons are face-sized
<andylockran> HazRPG: where do you get them from ?
<HazRPG> andylockran: I usually buy off ebay
<HazRPG> shauno: face-sized? Really... how :S?
<HazRPG> my friend has a 19" or so monitor and he runs in 1280x1024 just fine
<andylockran> http://www.belkin.com/support/article/?lid=en&pid=f5d8231-4&aid=5927&scid=221 that's what I've got at the moment...
<shauno> I like the UI to be as skinny as possible; leave the space for things I'm actually using.
<shauno> and since OSX doesn't let me install themes that are a bit more trimmed down (or, themes at all), I just run the monitor native
<HazRPG> andylockran: quick question, can you unscrew the antennas out of your router?
<shauno> oh good lord, it's 17"
<HazRPG> shauno: I have 2x17" monitors - I actually took the tape measure out and checked xD
<shauno> I just had to google the part number
<shauno> 17", 1600 x 1200 at 75 Hz .. so yeah I don't let web pages use 12px fonts ;)
<HazRPG> shauno: I got my monitors from my old college for Â£10 a piece - so I'm not sure what monitors they are other than DELL that's written on the front - but hey I have a tape measure next to my computer at all times - always comes in handy
<andylockran> HazRPG: I'll run and check...
<HazRPG> wow 1600x1200 native for a 17" monitor seems insane!
<HazRPG> andylockran: cool
<shauno> it's a fantastic monitor.  I'll be sad when it dies.
<shauno> crt & weighs more than I do.  but it'll sync down far enough to run my amiga on it
<HazRPG> andylockran: the antenna end should look somewhat like this - http://www.more-shop.co.uk/images/medium/DWL-50AT_MED.png
<HazRPG> andylockran: that's assuming its not physically attached, if it is - then you can't simply replace it
<HazRPG> andylockran: but if you can, you can just get yourself a longer antenna, with an extension cord so that you can move it to a more appropriate place
<andylockran> HazRPG: thanks for the tip
<HazRPG> shauno: haha, yeah I think I've got a CRT that supports that sort of resolution too :P
<andylockran> my little bro is asleep in the same room as the router so can't check now.
<andylockran> will do so tomorrow morning.
<HazRPG> andylockran: this is the one I got I think: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-dBi-Wireless-WIFI-Booster-Antenna-WLAN-RP-SMA-Stand-/320644926871?pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item4aa7ed4d97#ht_2655wt_1139
<HazRPG> it looks similar
<andylockran> cheers dude, will have a look tomorrow
<andylockran> night all1
<andylockran> that's the kind of answers I like.  friendly and to the point.  love #ubuntu-uk :)
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> andylockran: since yours has 3 ports, you could always just get three of those I linked you to (they're cheap enough) and don't need to use the extension cord it comes with - but you can be a better judge on that one obviously
<HazRPG> andylockran: also, night, hope you can get some better results with the bigger antennas
<HazRPG> andylockran: btw, if your still about - I was just quickly looking through the manuals off the website, and it seems you should be able to replace those antennas :) - glhf (good luck, have fun)
<HazRPG> shauno: still shocked you use it at full native resolution - I would have knocked it down a few
<HazRPG> shauno: surely you should be able to customize your OSX a little bit...
<shauno> you'd be surprised
<HazRPG> shauno: I mean, the dock can be hidden until mouse is at the bottom can't it?
<shauno> oh, yeah I have that hidden
<HazRPG> oh, what's the issue with screen real estate?
<HazRPG> thought it would have been just the dock that was in the way
<shauno> I just don't like the UI being so bulky.  toolbars, tab bars, everything
<HazRPG> since all windows use a global menu bar at the top doesn't it?
<shauno> I'm still cheesed I can't turn the tab bar off in this irc client.  but I managed to edit everything else out of it
<HazRPG> shauno: what client you using?
<shauno> it's called 'colloquy'.  not fantastic, but the easiest to abuse I've found yet
<HazRPG> oh, heh I think I know the one you mean
<HazRPG> abuse how?
<shauno> it has a menu entry to hide the tab bar.  it hasn't done anything for 3+ years now
<shauno> silly little things like it has a bar at the top of the screen that shows you the topic.  constantly.
<shauno> that's gone :)
<HazRPG> shauno: what version of OSX are you using?
<shauno> current, I believe
<shauno> yup, 10.6.6
<HazRPG> shauno: http://themechanger.sourceforge.net/
<shauno> yeah, I used to use something similar.  gave up on them because it kept breaking OS updates
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> just out of interest, why OSX?
<HazRPG> tempted to order indian take-away food
<shauno> eh, long story.  basically I wasn't happy with gnome was, or where it was going
<shauno> and frankly, stuff like having to rebuild nvidia drivers every time there's a kernel update is for the birds
<shauno> I used linux exclusively from slack 3.3 ('96, maybe '97) until apple went intel.  then defected.
<HazRPG> shauno: woah, rebuilding drivers? Seriously?
<HazRPG> I can't say I've ever had that issue
<HazRPG> although saying that only been using linux since 2005
<HazRPG> I couldn't sit and download distros on a 16.5Kbps connection in saudi :/
<HazRPG> that and sites like sourceforge, etc were blocked because of various software that was on it
<HazRPG> that the government didn't approve of
<HazRPG> so they just blocked the whole site
<shauno> I got my first few from a friend with a uni account.  then they started cropping up in books & on magazine covers
<HazRPG> not in saudi :P
<HazRPG> we had a few Mac based mags, but mainly windows based ones
<shauno> eventually I ended up mail ordering them because debian was silly-sized  (I think it was 3 disks for potato and 7 for woody)
<HazRPG> was rare to hear the world "linux" over there - except Unix - that was a popular word
<HazRPG> seems a few servers out there still run on Unix
<HazRPG> shauno: really debian was that big back then?
<shauno> they do; mostly systems people are terrified to break
<HazRPG> I know red hat was like 5-6 discs at one point
<HazRPG> we learned how to install it at college lol
<HazRPG> I was shocked to hear my dad said the current project over there is to get the systems from Unix over to Oracle for their databases
<HazRPG> which seems odd as a sentence
<HazRPG> but he's not tech-savvy when it comes to O/S
<HazRPG> he can tell you what hardware he has - and what's good/bad, but operating systems - he still thinkings windows XP is the future lol
<HazRPG> I told dad, that for what he uses his computer for - ubuntu or similar would actually be better for him
<HazRPG> but like I said, hard to get copies of such things over there - plus would be better if I actually installed it for him myself (one day)
<shauno> hm, they don't seem to have anything that old on cdimage.debian.org, but I'm pretty sure it was 3 for potato and 7 for woody (just for binaries)
<shauno> you didn't need all of them, but if you're going to mail order them, it doesn't hurt :)
<HazRPG> oh I don't doubt that dude :P
<HazRPG> I remember red hat was a beast of storage at one point
<shauno> I only ever had redhat on a one-disk install (5.2)
<HazRPG> really?
<HazRPG> I recall having it on 5-6 at college
<shauno> that was one that came with a book; no idea what it looked like retail
<HazRPG> again that was roughly 2004 ish
<shauno> I think this woulda been around 99/2000
<HazRPG> Red Hat before it became Fedora for the free version use to take up a whole dvd or more
<HazRPG> Fedora still does if I recall :/
<shauno> heh, pretty much everything does.  imagine if ubuntu put the entire repo in the images :)
<shauno> hm, seems mirror.ac.uk is gone.  that used to be the easiest way I knew to see how big repos actually were
<shauno> altho they symlink everything to /pool/ now, so not sure that'd work
<shauno> still use ubuntu mind.  not on my 'main machine', but on pretty much everything else I can get my hands on
<shauno> still bummed they stole jdub tho.  I miss garnome :)
<shauno> 2.30 and I work in the morning.  think I'll leave it there.  night HazRPG
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning.
<nigelb> morning
<MartijnVdS> hah, it's 11-02-2011  today
<MartijnVdS> palindrome date
<ball> :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Excuse me while I go and throw up. http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/02/11/open-letter-from-ceo-stephen-elop-nokia-and-ceo-steve-ballmer-microsoft/ Don't watch the 39s video!
<AlanBell> "There are other mobile ecosystems. We will disrupt them." business as usual then
<MartijnVdS> "The 39s video" made me think of Queen 8-)
<DJones> Morning all
<DJones> Queen o/
<dwatkins> Does he shout about developers?
<daubers> Morning
<automatical> mornin' all
 * daubers mucks around with inotify
<hoover> mornin all
<ball> I'm really enjoying the Xubuntu machines I've been using lately
 * BigRedS demands a strong coffee
<MooDoo> morning
<MooDoo> BigRedS: strong coffee with a espresso chaser :)
<BigRedS> MooDoo: That sort of thing :)
 * BigRedS gets a strong coffee
<BigRedS> awesome!
<danfish> a hoy hoy!
<bigcalm> Hulloooo
<popey> A hoy hoy!
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<popey> Hi dad!
<MartijnVdS> dadbuntu?
<bigcalm> Doesn't have the same ring to it
<ZMo> Hi
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone!
<directhex> rip nokia
<JamesTait> directhex: Indeed.
<TheOpenSourcerer> moar coffee.
<s-fox> Hello.
<AlanBell> o/ s-fox
 * popey does the wiki pages for last nights meeting
<popey> bum
<popey> need to fix mootbot.ubuntu-uk.org
<TheOpenSourcerer> that would be night's meeting popey </dutchie="false">
<popey> fixed
<popey> :D
<MooDoo> s-fox: morning
 * popey hugs mootbot
<s-fox> Hello AlanBell  :)
<s-fox> Hi MooDoo :)
 * MooDoo read mootbot as moodoo at a quick glance and got worried
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you're a bot?!
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: Unable to compute
<MooDoo> ** WARNING ** Will Robinson
<dwatkins> Danger, Will Robinson!
<dwatkins> I wonder why we need to be afraid of him... it's not like we're lost in space or anything...
<DaveMorris> So whats likely to happen to Qt now MS are teaming up with Nokia and providing development tools.  Are Nokia likely to drop it?
<MooDoo> dwatkins: indeed your correct it's Danger lol
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning Knightwise
<AlanBell> DaveMorris: it is LGPL so the code is safe
<DaveMorris> yeah I know the code is, I was just under the impression that Nokia employed quite a few Qt devs
<danfish> DaveMorris: but development of it at Nokian will probably stop
<danfish> Nokia even
<AlanBell> Surrey lug is at Nokia tomorrow
<danfish> maybe libreQt will be born....
<MartijnVdS> danfish: they'll need a new name probably? (trademarks)
<Knightwise> i'm trying to revive an G3 imac here
<Knightwise> got 10.10 server installed
<Knightwise> whats the best gui ? Openbox ?
<Knightwise> do i just do sudo apt-get install xorg openbox ? or do i need more ?
<dutchie> surely openbox will depend on sufficient stuff to work
<DJones> Knightwise: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Openbox
<Knightwise> yeah , but when i just do an apt-get install openbox .. it doesnt work
<DJones> sudo aptitude install openbox obconf
<Knightwise> thanx :) i'll give that a try
<Knightwise> so no Xorg ?
<DJones> Not according the help.ubuntu.com link
<Knightwise> ok ;:) thanx
<danfish> MartijnVdS: LibreCute?
<DJones> Interesting, after Nokia & MS link up, is this a sign that RIM & Google are getting together http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/rim_putting_android_apps_on_playbook_tablet/
<DJones> I guess its one of boosting the number of apps available
<MartijnVdS> RIM *shudder*
<popey> Well, that's the end of me ever buying a Nokia phone.
<popey> I used to _only_ buy Nokias
<dwatkins> popey: not all Nokia phones run WP7
<popey> what else will their smartphones run?
<dwatkins> I also used to only get Nokias, but that was before the invention of the smartphone.
<dwatkins> Meego, I gather
<popey> hahahahaha
<popey> yeah, right
<popey> come back in a year and show me all those handsets.. in one hand
<andylockran> howdy
<Laney> "MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices."
<popey> like.. the n900?
<popey> (as an example of Nokia exploring next-gen devices)
<DJones> Laney: That sounds like they're saying that they have no current plans to do anything with MeeGo
<popey> (and an example of my assertion that there is only one of them)
<AlanBell> "we are going to sit on MeeGo for a few years until it just goes away"
<DJones> AlanBell: That summarises what was going through my mind
<AlanBell> "we are not going to let MeeGo go because it might compete with us"
<danfish> it's kind of ironic that Nokia and Linus originate from the same country
<daubers> Meh, I still want a nexus s to just play with NFC things
<Knightwise> nope ,dont think xorg still supports the videocard in the G3
<MartijnVdS> daubers: are there NFC things other than that phone?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Apparently (according to some people I've spoken too at various chip firms) NFC is massivley popular in the far east
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Some companies are trying to retrofit handsets to have NFC chips in
<daubers> I just want to NFC enable the company stand at trade shows :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: "we in the west" use qr codes ;)
<AlanBell> I have NFC what NFC is
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: near field comms.. "Active rfid"
<MooDoo> that's the one
<MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication
<daubers> MartijnVdS: NFC is _much_ cooler
<MartijnVdS> daubers: it can read your bank details?
<selinuxium> Hi all, just a quick pimp... Friend Ebaying an original eeePC. Â£60 including car charger and 8GB SD card... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200574804592&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
<daubers> MartijnVdS: You'd need an app from your bank to do that
<daubers> I'm relativley certain the bump comms in the new palm devices will be NFC powered... but have no proof of that yet
<danfish> hah - a good take on the nokia story from the newshump
<danfish> http://newsthump.com/2011/02/11/phones-no-one-uses-to-run-operating-system-no-one-likes/
<popey> haha
<davmor2> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah - http://twitpic.com/3ylh2v
 * daubers needs foods
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: Didn't take long :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope.
<s-fox> I think Microsoft should use the product red colour instead of blue ;)
<directhex> nokia, i am disappoint
<dwatkins> vmware has pink screens of death
<directhex> xboxes have red rings of dearh
<directhex> death
<nigelb> TheOpenSourcerer: good one
<dwatkins> yeah, I have two of those, directhex
<nigelb> I loved yesterday's Dilbert though.  Anyone saw that?
 * BigRedS just had a support ticket asking him to fix IE
<selinuxium> BigRedS, That will be where that Big 'S' will be needed... :)
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski with a wake you sciving git stick
<BigRedS> Haha
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I wonder if Nokia will do the sensible thing and have one button called "Any"
<moreati> Think I've found Nokia's inspiration for their new strategy http://search.dilbert.com/search?p=R&srid=S3%2d2&lbc=dilbert&w=random&url=http%3a%2f%2fdilbert%2ecom%2fstrips%2fcomic%2f1996%2d09%2d13%2f&rk=47&uid=763453366&sid=2&ts=custom&rsc=jcrs::IVciqj0rxv&method=and&isort=date&view=list&filter=type%3acomic
<AlanBell> moreati: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzZ86GYoxE0
<bigcalm> Did he go back and re-colour all of the old strips?
<davmor2> bigcalm: they were always in colour you just need to enable the colour this strip option?  You mean you never did?
<bigcalm> o.O
<davmor2> bigcalm: :D
 * bigcalm kippers davmor2
<MooDoo> smoke me a kipper, i'll be home for breakfast
<davmor2> MooDoo: Hello
<MooDoo> davmor2: good morning sir!
<MooDoo> davmor2: how are you this fine friday?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Glad it's Friday :)  You?
<MooDoo> davmor2: same, it's been a hard week
<knightwise> hey guyz
<MooDoo> hey
<knightwise> anybody know a good command line / ascii interface (like the dos menu's we had in the old days' for an old G3 system ?
<knightwise> my attempts of getting a GUI on it have failed horribly :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: byobu :)
<MooDoo> knightwise: have a look at ion2/3 it's a command line windows manager....not sure if it's available any more though
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: mc ?
<knightwise> got those
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: write something using "dialog"?
<knightwise> perhaps i'll try that
 * BigRedS assumes 'G3' doesn't refer to a PPC mac
 * MartijnVdS is afraid it does
<knightwise> Oh yes it does
<knightwise> its kinda cute though
<BigRedS> Yeah, I have a few of those :)
<dwatkins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook
<dwatkins> I guess it's not on that list, though
<knightwise> erm .. check out www.knightwise.com to see what i do with Ubuntu and macbooks
<knightwise> i think i need to make some adjustments to to xorg.conf to set the resolution right
<knightwise> however in 10.10 there is no xorg.conf anymore
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: omg, YOU are sure_ill_draw_that?! :P
<knightwise> MartijnVdS:  ?
<knightwise> lol :) naah
<knightwise> i'm not that geeky
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: http://www.reddit.com/user/Sure_Ill_Draw_That
<dwatkins> knightwise: neat, I was hoping grub would work
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: he has the same glasses as you :)
<knightwise> be back later , have some work to do for the skunkworks :
<knightwise> lol
<knightwise> dwatkins: the dual boot was fairly easy to do , i'll never use that other bootloader that they recommend for dual booting macs and stuff
<knightwise> (forgot the name but mentioned it in the podcast)
<MooDoo> woohoo apparently it's hug a tall person day, send me your hugs :D
<nigelb> MooDoo: how tall are you? ;)
<MooDoo> nigelb: 6'6
<MooDoo> nigelb: i believe that counts :p
<MooDoo> lol
<X3N> bit akward for me, it's always like, Hello, I'm now hugging your waste line, akward..
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> czajkowski: My morning prod failed then
<gord_> i kinda want to mark the fact that thunderbird has "Compose messages in HTML format" enabled by default as a bug... y'know, for the greater good
<MooDoo> davmor2: prod harder
<davmor2> gord_: do it
<davmor2> gord_: in fact do it and mark it as a security risk :D
<danfish> haha - comment of the day IMO regarding Nokia etc
<danfish> I would say that iOS is a precious beauty queen, and Android is an Olympic athlete, WM7 is a tired old man in drag.
<danfish> ^^ from comments on BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2011/02/is_the_nokiamicrosoft_horse_a.html
<AlanBell> can libreoffice be installed side by side with openoffice.org on 10.04?
<BigRedS> AlanBell: I've heard claims that people have done it
<DJones> AlanBell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LibreOffice Please note OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice don't coexist. Install LibreOffice following these instructions will effectively remove OpenOffice.org.
<danfish> AlanBell: the computer says no here - mutters about unstable distribution
<AlanBell> ok, thanks
<AlanBell> makes things more interesting
<AlanBell> Alfresco on one machine, libreoffice headless on another
<czajkowski> Aloha
<popey> moo
<daubers> popey: Don't do that or you may get farmed for leather
<MartijnVdS> daubers: or milk
<popey> hah
<czajkowski> ya happy friday :D
<czajkowski> well it was till I got a call to do work on my day off
<czajkowski> remind me next time someone to turn off phone
 * Pendulum hugs czajkowski 
<czajkowski> *sigh*
<czajkowski> I did explain I was on annual leave but the person was rather adamant stuff be changed today.
<bigcalm> Nobody else able to do stuff?
<czajkowski> nope not in this case
<czajkowski> annoying
<popey> welcome to working in the UK
<jpds> woking?
<bigcalm> Welcome to Woking station
<czajkowski> Pendulum: I suggest have a box of tissues to hand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tMsb8QeDCY
<popey> I will be in Woking tomorrow
<bigcalm> Poop
<popey> Going to see Jimmy Carr
<bigcalm> Oh, Woking, not working
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> Hayley and I saw Jimmy in Wolverhampton. Great fun
<popey> excellent
<popey> going out for food / booze before too
<czajkowski> Pendulum: twins are 5 :D
<czajkowski> popey: sounds like a good night planned
<popey> yeah :)
<popey> also, we have a possible venue for oggcamp :D
<bigcalm> Woot
<czajkowski> ohh
 * BigRedS intends to get to oggcamp this year
<BigRedS> again
<bigcalm> Better set a date for oggcamp11 soon. This year is filling up already
<mungojerry> popey are u allowed to say the possible  venue?
<popey> I'd rather not yet.
<popey> not booked
 * mungojerry hoping for london
<popey> not london :)
<bigcalm> Phew
<mungojerry> boo :(
<bigcalm> Few would be able to afford the over night stay
<mungojerry> outside term time, some uni's offer good accomodation, and obviously a good venue too
<mungojerry> popey, near london? :P
<mungojerry> south east perchance?
<popey> well, I live in Farnborough :)
<hamitron> roundabouts?
<mungojerry> redhats :P
<czajkowski> redhat is too small
<hamitron> I am obviously stupid and don't understand... ;/
 * mungojerry thinks he's probably not gonna get much more out of popey for the time being
<gord_> oggcamp at popey's house \o/
<gord_> why do i have a tail today?
<popey> Is it a tail or a no-tail?
<popey> C'mon tubbs!
<hamitron> anyone else here got tdu2?
<mungojerry> btw when does the uupc podcast come back again?
<popey> "soon"
<mungojerry> surviving on the LAS show for now, but bryan & chris keep having babies
<popey> hah
<popey> thats a miracle of science
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think there is a teensy weensy bug with the map on the new Loco site.
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you look at Farnham, you will see my pin.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Before I put my details there you could see AlanBell. Now I think I am totally covering his pin.
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: step 10 yards further away from him and see if it moves :P
 * BigRedS was briefly worried about cred card fraud there
<TheOpenSourcerer> There also seems to be no direct way to view the blog content from the home page.
<danfish> hmm - the M25 is labelled 'Autoroute Britanique M25' on the map.
<danfish> Zut alors!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Quelle Surprise!
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: categories on the right
<popey> i.e. click news
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I know popey, but no single page for all recent blog posts.
<popey> true
<daubers> AlanBell: http://www.rivercottage.net/shop/product/bee_keeping/ \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Hey, the Boulevard Peripherique is called the Paris Ringroad :-)
 * daubers is very tempted to dust off the credit card
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: ha - when we were kids we broke down on the Peripherique towing a caravan. My dad started out all English and apologetic, but after 30mins was swearing his head off at the other drivers. One of my fondest memories as a kid ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a crazy road really. Too small, too many exits (portes) and just rammed with traffic.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh shiny new phone... From Viewsonic: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/viewsonic-debuts-v350-smartphone-viewpad-10-pro-tablet/22313
<selinuxium> AlanBell, Favicon from wiki ubuntu.com and ubuntu-uk.org is a different colour... Not sure if this was intended... :)
<diplo> lol, we broke down on there as well danfish
<diplo> Great fun isn't it
<popey> the one at ubuntu-uk.org is right isnt it?
<popey> orange
<diplo> We never used it again after
<popey> wonder where ours came from
<selinuxium> popey, both are orange, the one from wiki.ubuntu.com is the same colour as the oen we use in the ubuntu-uk local team logo... the one on the site is a lighter orange..
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Here: http://ubuntu-uk.org/favicon.ico :-)
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, :)
<popey> which one is more right?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry - coudn't resist that one.
<danfish> diplo: indeedy
<selinuxium> popey, neither is more wrong either... i just happened to have the tabs open with them next to each other..
<selinuxium> but the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/favicon.ico is the same colour as the on eused in the loco logo...
 * selinuxium same to have a typing disorder... 
 * selinuxium same??? seems... need sleep...
<shauno> ubuntu.com, wiki. and loco. all use exactly the same file (the md5sum match).  so I'd assume that's the right orange
<selinuxium> shauno ?
<shauno> the favicon are all identical; except uuk's
<popey> ok
<popey> alan@www:/srv/ubuntu-uk.org/www/wp-content/themes/light-wordpress-theme/images$ diff favicon.ico /home/alan/favicon.ico
<popey> Binary files favicon.ico and /home/alan/favicon.ico differ
<popey> I concur!
<popey> fixed
<selinuxium> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/787918/Screenshot.png
<selinuxium> shauno, OK. Sorry. miss understood :)
 * danfish still can't figure out nested screen sessions :(
<Laney> ctrl-a goes one screen down
<Laney> then you do the normal shortcut without the ctrl-a and it operates on the inner screen
<popey> thats not what I do
<popey> ctrl+a, a then whatever shortcut gets you the second one
<popey> ctrl+a, a, a then whatever shortcut gets you the third one
<popey> etc
<jpds> Why would you want to put a screen within a screen?
<popey> if you're sshing to a machine behind another
<dwatkins> I do it a lot
<popey> ditto
<dwatkins> my laptop doesn't stay up, but the machine I ssh into does
<dwatkins> so I ssh from that into others
<dwatkins> and run screen on them too
<popey> 4 deep is the most I have done i think
<danfish> ah - ctrl-a,a etc. Wasn't using enough 'a's. Tx
<popey> NEED MOAR AAAA!
<MartijnVdS> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
<MartijnVdS> popey: you can copy/paste some of mine
<popey> thanks!
<s-fox> Afternoon everypeople :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Kewl - Full 1080p recording coming to a phone near you soon... http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/samsung-releases-8-and-12-megapixel-cmos-smartphone-sensors-sho/
 * daubers puts on some ELO and tries to focus
<MartijnVdS> daubers: on ELO?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: On why on keeping track of which object is calling what in my code
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Law of Demeter :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Indeed
 * MartijnVdS downloads the (legal!) SXSW torrent for '11
<MartijnVdS> http://torrentfreak.com/sxsw-2011-on-bittorrent-4-49-gb-of-free-music-110210/
<dwatkins> sudo doesn't seem to use my path
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's a feature :)
 * bigcalm would like to kick Drupal squarely in the balls
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: should be possible to turn it off in sudoers
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: why?
<Seeker> wee netsplit
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ok, maybe not Drupal itself. I'm extending a pre-made theme for a client. The CSS is proving annoying
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: CSS always is
<MartijnVdS> it's why I do backends, not frontends
<bigcalm> I prefer to do backends as well. Or something really fun with JS.
<MartijnVdS> only if someone else gets to make it cross-browser :)
<bigcalm> JS frameworks FTW!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
<AlanBell> o/
 * AlanBell reads scrollback and will move farnham pin a bit
<AlanBell> and I am sure there is a url for recent blog posts somewhere
<AlanBell> daubers: are you going bee keeping?
<daubers> AlanBell: If I can get the missus' approval..
<daubers> A day beekeeping at River Cottage sounds quite idyllic
<winterweaver> so, how do I know if I get a new laptop (Alienware M11X to be specific), that ubuntu will run things everything like it's supposed to. I remember in the past people complaining that it doesnt run the correct fan speeds on some laptops, and sometimes dont shut down hard drives correctly. I dont want to pay a lot of money on a laptop that I'm just gonna kill, cause I use Ubuntu everyday
<danfish> daubers: I was walking in Dorset last year near Bridport - walked round a corner in a quiet valley and tada - there was the original River Cottage
<shauno> every time you mention beekeeping I just want to yell out "I'm covered in bees!".  just fyi :)
<daubers> danfish: Yup, they do events there!
<daubers> danfish: I went to the Autumn Fair last year and is was fantastic
<danfish> winterweaver: I suppose the only surefire way is to find a vendor, and ask if you can try a live usb
<danfish> daubers: excellent. Is that the one just accoss the border in Devon?
<winterweaver> true... i've been stalking the forums, the folks that have one dont seem to be complaining, other than the screen card issues.
<daubers> danfish: It's the original river cottage in the valley, but they've got a cafe in axminster
<daubers> danfish: Think it's called park farm
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/blog/
<daubers> danfish: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=EX13+8TB&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=12.530974,34.453125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Axminster+EX13+8TB,+United+Kingdom&ll=50.750332,-2.989397&spn=0.005919,0.033646&z=15&layer=c&cbll=50.750344,-2.989404&panoid=4lNBlaQIvS9V4bfIhziWdg&cbp=11,193.42,,0,-2.78 <- There
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I have nautilus that keeps opening a menu bar on the desktop, I killed the process but it keeps coming up, what could be the problem?
<MartijnVdS> a plugin in nautilus?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, possibly
<MartijnVdS> what's in the menu that opens?
<MartijnVdS> which version of Ubuntu?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, it's as if nautilus was open in the desktop folder and I get the simple File Edit View Places Help menu
<danfish> daubers: I think there have been so many - this was the 1st http://www.panoramio.com/photo/34619835
<daubers> danfish: Ah, possibly
<daubers> danfish: They did have the gastro wagon at the Autumn Fair
<AlanBell> czajkowski: pong
<czajkowski> AlanBell: tis ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mubarak has gone!
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
<danfish> 'bout time to
<directhex> where's HazRPG, i'm sure he has some insight to share
<Azelphur> hehe
<DJones> Nice wonder if this could make an Olympic event for 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12335960
<MartijnVdS> DJones: imac bowling?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Speed assembling of a PC
<MartijnVdS> not as much fun as imac bowling :)
<daubers> âª
<daubers> :(
<daubers> Ah ha!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: â«
<daubers> Why for does screen not like unicode no more
<daubers> âª
<MartijnVdS> daubers: â«
<daubers> Stupid screen
<daubers> âª: command not found
<daubers> ?Y? is not what I asked for
<daubers> silly screen
<MartijnVdS> I see musical notes
<MartijnVdS> <note char>: command not found
<MartijnVdS> but:
<MartijnVdS> 17:54 < daubers> ?Y? is not what I asked for
<daubers> Hmmm, byobu doesn't start with unicode enabled by default
<MartijnVdS> fial
<popey> it doesnt?
<daubers> âª WEEEEEEE
<daubers> popey: Doesn't seem to on my vps
<daubers> Had to create a new session to make it do so
<jpds> Ð§ÑÐ¾?
<daubers> Thats 10.04
<daubers> Does seem to in 10.10 though
<daubers> byobu version 2.68 compared too 3.5 in 10.10
<Myrtti> my brain wants to play minecraft, but the body is too lazy to follow instructions on how to move in it
<bigcalm> Myrtti: make a paper piggie :)
<Baikonur> and then hit it to get ham?
<bigcalm> http://yfrog.com/hsxkxhxj
<Baikonur> it is indeed a paper pig
<bigcalm> Was fun to make :)
<Myrtti> bigcalm: my sisters printer is out of red ink and I've got only a bw laser at my apartment
<bigcalm> Boo :(
<Myrtti> I actually am considering going to bed
<directhex> solution: colour laser
<Myrtti> what would I do with a colour laser
<directhex> print pigs.
<Myrtti> I barely use my black and white
<directhex> hth. hand.
<popey> i might make some this weekend
<Myrtti> main purpose is to copy crossword puzzles to my mum and printing out ryanair boarding passes
<Myrtti> I don't need colour laser for that
<Myrtti> and scan sick leave certificates and such to HR
<Myrtti> sudo fetch me an iskender dÃ¶ner plz
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/papercraft/
<popey> need to do that this weekend
<jonsaint> hi all. can anyone tell me what software i can use to create a mp3 cd for my car?
<Azelphur> brasero? it's built in?
<directhex> jonsaint, an mp3 cd is just a data disc filled with mp3 files. you don't need to do anything fancy
<jonsaint> tried it. it will burn normal cd's
<Azelphur> oh, mp3 cd
<bigcalm> Black CD in your drive, drag files to it, finalise, put cd in car :)
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLPa4Fsh4ak is the answer
<bigcalm> Azelphur: bit mean :)
<Azelphur> wasn't meant to be mean, just funny :p
<jonsaint> cheers folks il try that
<gord> graze.com do not seem to understand, they started providing me with chocolate, i came to depend on them for chocolate and now they send a box that has zero chocolate in it at all? this shall not stand.
<danfish> gord: it's for your own good. Eat an olive instead.
<shauno> their website makes it look like little packages of rabbit food.  is it usually a bit more appealing?
 * daubers goes home
<shauno> silly question, 800MHz would be adequate for a (home) firewall?
<gord> shauno, there are a lot of things that look like rabbit food yes, if you don't like nuts, sunflower seeds and rasins, i wouldn't bother
<shauno> just wasn't expecting to hear of chocolate based on what I'd seen :)
<gord> well you get chocolate coated things sometimes, but its still nuts, sunflower seeds and raisins ;)
<danfish> and olives, lots of olives :(
<gord> i banished olives from my boxes
<danfish> good move - in reality if I banished everything I don't like, I'd be left with only those korean rice crackers and flapjacks
<MartijnVdS> danfish: meal of kings
<danfish> MartijnVdS: true
<MartijnVdS> argh
 * MartijnVdS files another bug
<MartijnVdS> I've disabled menus in gnome-terminal
<MartijnVdS> but EVERY TIME I switch windows, it shows up
<jpds> Dear jabber.org, stop falling over, kthxbye,
<MartijnVdS> \o/ gtalk
<brobostigon> noswaith dda everyone.
 * jacobw is stuck in screen
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: ctrl+a k
<TheOpenSourcerer> Friday night = pub night. Ta Da all. :-D
<jacobw> ta MartijnVdS
<jacobw> ah, I should rephrase, I'm stuck in irssi in screen
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: aren't we all :P
<jacobw> irssi is eating the escape sequences
<jacobw> hehe
 * MartijnVdS changed the escape to Ctrl+X
<brobostigon> annoying, how can my dad not know how to cook couscous, :(
<mgdm> isn't it printed on the packet? :)
<brobostigon> yes, it is.
<brobostigon> he didnt look.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: what did he try to do?
<brobostigon> bigcalm: he failled to consider the fact to seal it,while steaming, and to add flavoring to infuse it.
<bigcalm> At least it wont take long to make some more :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: very true, yes. :)
<Pendulum> one of my mates is showing me the minecraft server she uses and someone built a giant carrot on it. very odd.
<Azelphur> giant carrots are always fun.
 * brobostigon goes to watch QI
<MartijnVdS> it's an old one
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: dont matter, it the only thing on.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: rachmaninoff doc on 4
<MartijnVdS> bbc4*
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: umm, interesting.
<brobostigon> cool, i just noticed in gwibber that brian cox uses android.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you follow him as well? :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you might like these people: http://twitter.com/#!/periodicvideos
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yeah, :), i have a majoy physics interest,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: well.. you'll love periodicvideos, 60symbols and other channels from the Uni of Nottingham :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<domjohnson> If Windows 7 was my idea, I think I'd kill myself.
<Azelphur> me too
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> satire, :)
<Azelphur> I wish Windows 7 was my idea, I could have crippled it...oh wait...
<brobostigon> :)
<Baikonur> i've got nothing agains windows 7
<brobostigon> hustle is also pretty good,
<warddr> Hello all
<brobostigon> noswaith dda warddr
<warddr> Do you have by any chance a page explaining how to use the live-cd? Something I can print for if I give someone a live-cd?
<warddr> brobostigon, I don't think I understand what you're telling me
<Azelphur> warddr: "Put it in the CD drive"
<Azelphur> xD
<brobostigon> warddr: good evening, in welsh. :)
<brobostigon> tell bios to boot of cd.
<warddr> Oh, hello :D I'm from belgium, just here to ask about the paper
<brobostigon> warddr: MartijnVdS is a fellow country then.
<AlanBell> hi warddr
<brobostigon> country man*
 * AlanBell hands brobostigon a map
<brobostigon> doh
<warddr> We've got a page in Dutch and French explaining some first steps and where to find help, I thought maybe you had one as well. My engish teacher is interested in ubuntu, and I prefere to give him an english version
<brobostigon> thanks AlanBell :(
<AlanBell> warddr: http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/en/get-materials/packaging
<AlanBell> stuff there might be of interest for putting with a CD
<AlanBell> however I can see a first steps article would be a handy thing and I don't know where one is
<warddr> AlanBell, I'll translate ours in English, I can send it to you if you like
<AlanBell> I can read French
<brobostigon> i think a few of us might be interested, inreading it.
<warddr> This is the frensh version for who speaks frensh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/ComputerFairs?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ubuntu-cd-flyer-A4-FR-BE.odt
<AlanBell> Merci
 * brobostigon admits defeat.
<AlanBell> Alan Cocks has some flyers he hands out, not sure where the online version is
<warddr> But I'll try to translate the dutch version to English
 * brobostigon gets warddr a leffe.
<AlanBell> nice document warddr
<warddr> No credits to me for that
<warddr> but indeed a nice document
<czajkowski> Pendulum: like the video :D
<Pendulum> so cute!
<czajkowski> Pendulum: aye such a tear jerker
<Pendulum> I can't believe they're 5!
<czajkowski> neither can I
<czajkowski> seeing as they nearly didnt live, and she had to resuscitate cillian after a few days.
<Pendulum> yeah
<czajkowski> been a rough but entertaining few years
<Pendulum> heh
<czajkowski> not been able to get the song out of my head today
<moreati> Pendulum: I watched the video, and they look like fabulous kids who obviously adore each other. If twin births were more common I think we'd be much better off as a society. Best luck for the next 5 years.
<Pendulum> moreati: they're not my kids
<czajkowski> moreati: they my mates.
<czajkowski> she lives in canada now
<czajkowski> fyi for others : weapy video but sooo cute http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tMsb8QeDCY&feature
<moreati> Pendulum: czajkowski apologies, I misunderstood
<czajkowski> np
<Pendulum> moreati: not a problem :)
<danfish> aloha ahiahi
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-12
<brobostigon> nos da, everyone, sleep well.
<dogmatic69> anyone got firesheep working on ubuntu?
<dogmatic69> i tried http://randommusingsofarealgeek.blogspot.com/2010/11/firesheep-on-linux.html
<dogmatic69> but complains about libpcap0.8, which is not in apt-get and seems like i have libpcap2
<zen> tweck kaar mull?
<jacobw> Romanian?
<directhex> dogmatic69, 0.8 is on lucid
<directhex> um, maverick
<dogmatic69> would i be able to use that and 2?
<directhex> don't see why not
<directhex> 0.8 refers to the SONAME anyway, not the version
<dogmatic69> ok
<dogmatic69> how do i go about getting that?
<directhex> um, packages.ubuntu.com is a good start
<YanksRule> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<YanksRule> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<maco> oh for crying out loud....
<YanksRule> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<YanksRule> maco,  im gangsta
<YanksRule> !staff
<lubotu3> hey Christel, Dave2, Gary, KB1JWQ, Levia, Martinp23, SportsChick, VorTechS, jayne, jenda, marienz, nalioth, niko, nhandler, rob, stew or tomaw, I could use a bit of your time :)
<YanksRule> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<YanksRule> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<YanksRule> hu\
<YanksRule> e
<YanksRule> e
<YanksRule> e
<YanksRule> e
<YanksRule> e
<YanksRule> !staff
<lubotu3> hey Christel, Dave2, Gary, KB1JWQ, Levia, Martinp23, SportsChick, VorTechS, jayne, jenda, marienz, nalioth, niko, nhandler, rob, stew or tomaw, I could use a bit of your time :)
<Myrtti> hohum
<MartijnVdS> morning Myrtti
 * MartijnVdS looks at the mess
 * Myrtti charges up the emp gun
 * MartijnVdS stands back
<Myrtti> i think he stopped
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<czajkowski> Alolha
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://siriusit.co.uk/blogs/12-feb-2011/open-business-smes-take-place-public-sector-table
<popey> morning all
<czajkowski> popey: howdy
<czajkowski> Good news for SMES http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/news/government-opens-contracts-small-business
<atollino> ciao
<AlanBell> thanks czajkowski
<czajkowski> np
<oly> good morning,
<oly> thought i would see if some one can tell me how file association working in gnome / ubuntu
<oly> i am intrested in modifying my app so that when i click on .stl files it launchs in the same fashion that clicking a jpg opens an image viewer
<oly> guessing its some config file hidden away on my system, and guessing some one may know where :)
<Myrtti> gconf
<oly> oh , yeah guess that kind of makes sense actually
<oly> so just need to figure out a command to insert during install process
<Laney> no no no
<Laney> you specify mimetypes in the .desktop file
<daubers> Morning
<oly> Laney, care to specify where ?
<oly> i just did a quick search for .desktop and they are all over the place :p
<Laney> MimeType=<semicolon-separated-list-of-mimetypes-your-program-opns>
<Laney> look in /usr/share/applications/rhythmbox.desktop for an example
<oly> excellent thanks for that info :)
<Laney> there's 'desktop-file-validate' to check you got it ~rigth
<oly> ah cool that should be handy
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<daubers> o/
<brobostigon> morning daubers
<Lcawte> Problem much... what email address do I use for the site... I had an account on the beta, I've requested a password reset, but I can't seem to find that email
<aCilnv> morning, does anyone know where in London I can go to buy and pickup a Alfa AWUS036H USB Wifi adapter today ??
<AlanBell> aCilnv: dunno about specifc models but I got a USB wifi thing from Maplins that just works
<AlanBell> Lcawte: on ubuntu-uk.org?
<aCilnv> AlanBell - thanks. I want to play about with backtrack but the chipset on the macbookrpo wifi doesnt play nicely with everything.. thanks anyways
<brobostigon> linux review on click.
<brobostigon> fail, only mentioned pclinuxos.
<popey> brobostigon: guess they dont have time to review them all
<brobostigon> popey: agreed, that would take alot of time.
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> afternoonings MartijnVdS :)
<UndiFineD> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006m9ry
<UndiFineD> Click from this morning, can someone youtube it ?
<AlanBell> can anyone reproduce the issue mentioned on the list where at the top of http://ubuntu-uk.org/ you see "loco dire" rather than "loco directory"
<gord> AlanBell, looks fine to me, using firefox 4 on a netbook resolution
<DJones> AlanBell: Looks fine to me on Chromium
<dutchie> AlanBell: i can see "Loco Direct" (with only half a t)
<MichealH> AlanBell: Mine is Loco Directo
<MichealH> Using 1024x768 Resoultion
<MichealH> and Chrome
<Baikonur> Four Loko <3
<Pendulum> AlanBell: I'm getting it on FF in MacOS, maybe the person is using MacOS?
<Pendulum> AlanBell: yeah, I'm guessing it's something weird with MacOS as I'm getting it on both Safari and FF
<dutchie> Pendulum: i just got it on 'buntu
<Pendulum> dutchie: oops! didn't see that
<AlanBell> interesting
<AlanBell> there totally is a </head> tag in the header.php in the theme, but it does not appear to be rendering
<AlanBell> dutchie: what browser?
<dutchie> chrome dev channel
<AlanBell> and does it still happen?
<dutchie> yes
<AlanBell> I un-broke the missing </head>
<AlanBell> works for me in firefox and chromium
<popey> wfm in chrome on osx
<popey> also fine in ff and safari
<dutchie> some of the tweet pics are broken too
<dutchie> oh no, they are there now
<dutchie> it still doesn't validate ;)
<AlanBell> it *nearly* validates
<AlanBell> there is a <ul></ul> which is technically invalid without any <li> in it
<AlanBell> personally I think that is harsh
<dutchie> a little
<AlanBell> can't find how the twitter thing renders the link
<AlanBell> yay, down to 1 error
<AlanBell> right, so the last error is in the grey bar below the orange header, which *can* contain secondary navigation links, like a submenu
<AlanBell> the code is
<AlanBell>                 <ul id="dynamic-secondary-header-menu">
<AlanBell>                     <?php dynamic_sidebar('secondary-header-menu'); ?>
<AlanBell>                 </ul>
<AlanBell> and the problem is when there are no links returned by the dynamic_sidebar function
<AlanBell> is there a neat solution for not doing the <ul></ul> when there is no content/
<popey> put the ul inside secondary-header-menu?
<AlanBell> dynamic_sidebar is a wordpress funtion I think
<AlanBell> ok, found an ugly hack to make it validate
<AlanBell> I added <li style="display:none;"></li> inside the <ul>
<AlanBell> so there is always at least one <li> in it
<DJones> Hey czajkowski Thats a good Eurovision song entry Ireland have picked this year
 * AlanBell finds out what the truncated text issue is
 * AlanBell stabs the number 960 and letters g and s
<xircon1> Afternoon all, quick question, downloaded a conky config file that has cr/lf as endings.  How do I change to just lf?
<dutchie> xircon1: there is dos2unix for a quick and easy cli fix
<AlanBell> dutchie: Pendulum: MichealH: can you see if it is fixed now please
<xircon1> Sorry *line endings
<dutchie> AlanBell: fixed for me
<AlanBell> yay
<MichealH> AlanBell: Sure
<MichealH> I have "L"
<Pendulum> AlanBell: fixed
<Pendulum> (for me)
<AlanBell> MichealH: shift refresh
<xircon1> Thanks dutchie
<MichealH> Same, on Chrome
<xircon1> Back in a bit
<AlanBell> I added a recipes button to make the problem worse so I could see it and fix it
<MichealH> Imme the CSS and I can fix it for ya, maybe :P
 * MichealH dowbloads Natty Alpha 2
<AlanBell> MichealH:  http://ubuntu-uk.org/wp-content/themes/light-wordpress-theme/style.css
<dutchie> has empathy not been connecting to msn for anyone else today?
<AlanBell> the problem was a fixed width 650px on the #access tag that I missed when converting it from evil fixed width to pleasant fluid width
<AlanBell> remember kids, 960gs: not big and not clever
<jonsaint> hi all. i keep having problems with my desktop
<Pendulum> MichealH: I hate to ask the obvious question, but did you clear your cache in Chrome?
<jonsaint> anyone???
<Pendulum> jonsaint: ask your question and someone will hopefully be able to help.
<AlanBell> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<jonsaint> top of the screen on the right, you got a speech bubble, then your name in my case, john) and next to that the power down button but on mine i got my name and where the power button should be i got 'ohn' (part of my name) and the power button is not there
<dutchie> i'm sure i've seen that before
<dutchie> can't remember how i fixed it though, sorry
<jonsaint> it only used to happen now and then but its nearly all the time now
<AlanBell> I have seen corruption up there, but only when resizing virtual machine windows in virtualbox
<popey> great work on the website AlanBell
<jonsaint> i only got ubuntu installed on this machine using all standard settings
<AlanBell> jonsaint: what screen resolution?
 * Pendulum hugs popey 
<popey> uhoh
<Pendulum> what?
<popey> nothing :)
<popey> usually hugs precede favour requests where I come from :)
<Pendulum> nope!
<popey> \o/
<popey> win
<Pendulum> just random hug because I hadn't hugged you in a while :)
<jonsaint> let me see alan, 1 sec
<exobuzz> popey, i have xbmc working on my joggler images now.
<exobuzz> popey, no release yet. but close. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WALlSckmMWs (was before video rendering was fixed)
 * AlanBell boggles at the dabs valentines email
<jonsaint> alan its saying 1024x768
<AlanBell> jonsaint: ok, that is nice and unremarkable
 * AlanBell heads off to farnborough
<jonsaint> cant explain why i got my name and then part my name next to it
<exobuzz> popey, im sure your far too busy building us a brave new world out of blocks to use the joggler though right ? :)
<MichealH> ... and Natty is down
<MichealH> :D
<penguin42> down?
<penguin42> is anyone else having problems seeing http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/catalog - I'm getting a proxy error, but I'm not aware of having a proxy in the path
<AlanBell> penguin42: yes, looks like a reverse proxy/load balancer or something
<penguin42> AlanBell: Probably on the Ubuntu side - hmm I wonder who we prod
 * penguin42 will send a mail to webmaster
 * danfish is doing a 64bit 'upgrade' of his main laptop and it's going........badly :(
<penguin42> what's up?
<ujjain> Is there a BBC News 24 website?
<danfish> weird kernel errors - "MCE_error - MCE not human readable"
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
<penguin42> danfish: MCEs are almost always hardware
<danfish> penguin42: true - no errors with slightly older kernels tho'
<penguin42> danfish: You can run them through the mcelog program to try and figure out what's going on
<ujjain> AlanBell: I mean a live video stream? http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/bbc_world_service seems to have audio-only.
<danfish> penguin42: tx - just doing that at the mo
<penguin42> danfish: There have been hardware/bios/kernel bugs that can trigger them when it's not really a fault, but they are reasonably rare
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_news24/watchlive
<ujjain> Yes, I found that link, I need to buy a licensen.
<AlanBell> yes you do
<ujjain> ah ok :) shame.
<penguin42> someone has to pay for Chris Evans...hmm well....
<danfish> penguin42: it's an odd one - the liveUSB I've made boots OK, but once installed goes 'ape'
<penguin42> danfish: normal SATA?
<Azelphur> hahaha, have you seen what happened to nokia after they decided to team up with windows mobile?
<Azelphur> they had a massive staff walk out and their stocks have gone through the floor, haha
<penguin42> Azelphur: I worry they're going to run amok with their early phone patents
<penguin42> classic death spiral
<danfish> penguin42: yup - I'm pretty sure I've nailed it. I will be submitting bugs later :)
<Myrtti> I feel slightly nauseous when people talk of Nokia now
<penguin42> danfish: What does mcelog have to say?
<danfish> penguin42: not an awful lot. I'll be exploring the problems tomorrow more, but for now, a bootable system is a bonus.
 * danfish needs to watch rugby now and relax :)
 * brobostigon just got slagged off, by his ex's new partner. and is very unhappy.
<danfish> brobostigon: :((
<brobostigon> i was sitting in the pub, enjoying some really nice real ale, and he has to come over and ruin it.
<brobostigon> i am censoring myself,
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<brobostigon> noswaith dda pr0ph3t
<pr0ph3t> do you have problems with telepathy and the msn plug-in I can't seem to get the microphone to work
<brobostigon> :'(
<pr0ph3t> brobostigon, I beg you pardon?
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: sorry, thats welsh for good evening.
<pr0ph3t> same to you brobostigon
<brobostigon> danfish: i have everry reason to go kick him up the place where the sun doesnt shine. but that aint going to help.
<danfish> brobostigon: prob best to 'rise above it'
<pr0ph3t> and kick him higher up?
<danfish> pr0ph3t: ha
<pr0ph3t> sorry
<brobostigon> danfish: i have done, i have him barred, for doing it, to me, a very loyal customer, and that is the end of it.
<danfish> brobostigon: job done
<pr0ph3t> you don't use empathy for msn then?
<danfish> don't use msn
<brobostigon> danfish: yes, he gets what he deserves.
<dutchie> pr0ph3t: i can't get msn on empathy to work at all atm
<brobostigon> msn in empathy seems to work here, but i am not on ubuntu atm.
<pr0ph3t> dutchie, I can get video: send/receive, audio: receive none sent
<dutchie> oh, it's working now
<dutchie> it wasn't earlier
<brobostigon> killing telepathy-butterfly seems to work.
<pr0ph3t> brobostigon, dutchie, can you get audio after killing it?
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: nope, not for ages,
<MartijnVdS> Woo, Channel4 HD
<brobostigon> yay wales,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: what's up with Wales?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: we beat scotland, :)
<dutchie> i assume they just some sort of rugby match
<dutchie> +won
<MartijnVdS> ah
<brobostigon> rugby, yes,
<jacobw> decisively
<s-fox> Hello.
<Neoti> why is freenode port scanning my IP address ?
<directhex> looking for open relays
<directhex> and fish
<directhex> it likes fish
<gord> if it finds fish you are in sooooooo much troooouble
<daubers> I like fish
<DJones> daubers: Yeah, a bit of beer battered cod is quite enjoyable
<daubers> Oooooh... I haven't made beer batter in _ages_
<BigRedS> hmm
<BigRedS> oop, wrong window
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11549879 how cool is that!!
<ali1234> http://www.flickr.com/photos/blahflowers/4926489165/
<ali1234> AlanBell: ^
<AlanBell> yummy
<AlanBell> but giant jelly babies at Marble Arch would be awesome
<AlanBell> wonder if they will taste right
<shauno> why did I think setting up my own mailserver would be entertaining  :(
<bigcalm> shauno: you like pain?
<bigcalm> I refuse to host mail for anybody, not even myself
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> apparently so.
<bigcalm> There are so many ready made solutions out there
 * hamitron lets google take the abuse
<bigcalm> Yep
<shauno> atm I'm learning how to install a new CA on my phone because it cries about self-signed certs constantly
<hamitron> the onlyproblem with letting others do everything... life gets boring ;)
 * jacobw curbs his own thoughts about setting up a mailserver
<bigcalm> I think that there are enough crappy problems out there to not add mail hosting to the list
<bigcalm> It's good to have had the experience though :)
<hamitron> just as fun running a local mail server imo
<hamitron> can play, without having the real hassles
<shauno> it's kinda educational.  but a pain knowing that the smallest mistake will have me peddling viagra before I know it
<bigcalm> Yeesh, don't open port 25
<hamitron> hmmm, Â£150 left in my comp budget, and want Â£256 worth of stuff :/
<jacobw> you need some quantative easing :p
<hamitron> or a mug in here to buy Â£120 worth of crap off me
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> guess calling them a mug before I even start would not be a good sales pitch
<hamitron> ;D
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-13
 * penguin42 wonders if hamitron always buys his computer stuff in powers of 2
<hamitron> haha, it is a cool price :D
<hamitron> it is actually Â£255 plus a bit
<penguin42> bah
<hamitron> ITX mobo, 8gb ram and i3 cpu
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> use it for gaming for now, then use as a sff pc later
<hamitron> kinda wishI hadn't wasted money on new games, keyboards and a crash symbol now
 * hamitron blames pophey
<Pendulum> hamitron: is that like blaming popey?
<hamitron> yeh
<shauno> crash symbol?
<hamitron> for drum kit
<shauno> ah
<shauno> well, atleast postfix's conf looks nothing like sendmail's used to.  that's more than a small blessing
<penguin42> shauno: sendmails looked bad, but in reality most people never needed to touch the bit that looked like line noise
<hcfd> Hi guys. I am trying to setup 6 serial ports using setserial on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS. I had these working previously under Ubuntu 10.10. I have the correct UART, IRQ, port (I/O address) information but setserial gives me an error on /dev/ttyS[4-7], and no matter how I set ttyS3, it isn't working.
<hcfd> niall@lucifer:~$ setserial /dev/ttyS3 irq 15 port 0xec00
<hcfd> Cannot set serial info: Operation not permitted
<hcfd> Oops, wrong paste. I was using sudo setserial... and the error I get is: niall@lucifer:~$ sudo setserial /dev/ttyS4 irq 15 port 0xe400
<hcfd> Cannot set serial info: Invalid argument
<terran> ... getting highlighted on Niall every time
<hcfd> ?
 * penguin42 is gently shocked setserial is needed in this day and age
<BigRedS> gently shocked?
<hcfd> penguin42, my card came with its own driver but it doesn't work with recent kernels.. 8250.nr_uarts=nn is needed, and setserial..
<penguin42> BigRedS: Well you know, PCI should just work; it's not the days of ISA
<BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, I was more amused at the concept of being shocked in a gentle way :)
<s-fox> Good morning :)
<BigRedS> goood morning!
<s-fox> How are you ?
<BigRedS> I'm all good. I have just noticed it's no longer "a bit after ten" though :(
<BigRedS> you?
<s-fox> Not so bad, just doing my rounds on the ubuntu forums.
<s-fox> A little bored to be honest ;)
<BigRedS> haha. I've noticed I'm crap at writing code to fix other people's problems. I get really bored of it really quickly
<penguin42> BigRedS: It's like the parliamentry expense scandal; it's shocking that MPs would run off with our money - but not *really* that surprising to find they did
<BigRedS> haha. Sort-of wishing you found it shocking?
<penguin42> yeh
<hamitron> it is shocking some still seem to think they did nothing wrong, because it was "within the rules"
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> I'm just amused it was such a scandal
<BigRedS> we all know they're embezzling money and, relatively speaking, really not that much went on expenses
<jacobw> Yeah, I think there were more important things going on at the time..
<jacobw> For months about 30 minutes of Question Time was taken up with "But.. but.. expenses!"
<hamitron> they probably used the smoke screen as an ideal time to put dodgy stuff through :/
<BigRedS> possibly. But just crap like NPfIT and the like. Can't we all get angry about that sort of stuff?
<hamitron> NPfIT?
<BigRedS> I think that's its acronym. The NHS IT project
<directhex> the "let's buy terrible ms software for billions on a decades-long contract" one?
<BigRedS> To be fair to them, there's a lot of terrible non-ms software in there :)
<hamitron> they do it with everything, why do something clever with IT? ;/
<BigRedS> yeah, I'd just like more people to be annoyed by it
<directhex> blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarg
<hamitron> I am annoyed with it and many things :)
<hamitron> but in fairness to those deciding on behalf of the NHS thingy, the whole IT industry is messy :/
<hamitron> there seems to be an obsession with needing to advance everything every few years, breaking the standards of today to make work tomorrow
<shauno> good lord.  getting a self-signed cert onto an iphone is a hell of a mess.
<jacobw> change != improvement
<hamitron> I'd like to see more major changes, but less often
<hamitron> only if changes improve something though :)
<hamitron> why I love ubuntu LTS tbh
<hamitron> although, it would be even longer if I decided ;)
 * bigcalm eyes bigcalm_ 
<bigcalm> Why has my workstation woken up?
<bigcalm> Silly windows
<hamitron> why blame windows?
<bigcalm> Because it run windows
<bigcalm> Why not? ;)
<bigcalm> If I make it sleep, it will wake up around this time each night for a few minutes before going back to sleep
<hamitron> suppose
<hamitron> :)
<bigcalm> Quite odd
<s-fox> Goodbye
<Myrtti> boo.
 * AlanBell jumps
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers goes to the office
<czajkowski> morning
<AlanBell> o/
<AlanBell> how was the eye?
<czajkowski> nice
<czajkowski> bit scarey at times
<czajkowski> but nice
<czajkowski> then we went wine tasting
<AlanBell> I fully indend to go on the eye one day
<czajkowski> really should have more food in you before you do that
<czajkowski> finished off the evneing having yummy steak
<AlanBell> I have been to a few things at vinopolis, but they were more wine drinking than wine tasting
<daubers> I never intend to go on the eye. Far too high
<czajkowski> daubers: I'm scared shitless
<czajkowski> it was nice
<czajkowski> but whehn it stops at the top I was a bit scared
<daubers> czajkowski: Last time I went on anything near that high, I ended up lying on the floor with my eyes closed until they let me off
<czajkowski> we also had champagne on it
<czajkowski> daubers: oh I did sit for most of it
<czajkowski> and only went to the glass windows when I could hold onto the boy
<AlanBell> aww
<czajkowski> AlanBell: less awwing mister
 * AlanBell will behave
<AlanBell> probably
 * daubers ponders the best way to physically show file creation/deletion events
<daubers> Blinky LEDS are a bit pooey
<AlanBell> small explosions?
<daubers> Hmmm... not convinced
<AlanBell> must be an electronic detonation method for these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Peterkin-100-Shot-Gun-Caps/dp/B000H8XSPO
<czajkowski> hmm no idea how to change the terminal settings
<czajkowski> white background is awful to read
<czajkowski> popey: on a mac help?
<czajkowski> please
<AlanBell> czajkowski: http://superuser.com/questions/150916/change-background-and-font-colors-in-mac-terminal
<czajkowski> hmm thanks
<czajkowski> whoo
<czajkowski> I can see again
<AlanBell> yay
<czajkowski> Green on black so much better
<AlanBell> always happy to make a mac prettier, they are pretty ugly things after all
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I now have my own ac on it, I'm not to be trusted it seems
<czajkowski> no idea why he thinks that
<AlanBell> I can't imagine
<daubers> AlanBell: You can get electronic matches
<iandiandi_> \help
<AlanBell> hi iandiandi_
<iandiandi_> hi
<iandiandi_> I'm trying to register with freenode in order to use #python but I can't work it out
<AlanBell> if anyone is in the kings cross area this afternoon at 3PM there is a show and tell thing at the guardian for the rewired state south by south west hackday
<daubers> AlanBell: http://www.rocketstore.co.uk/shop/product.asp?numRecordPosition=1&P_ID=250&strPageHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=116
<AlanBell> not sure if issyl0 is involved in this one
<AlanBell> !register
<lubotu3> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<iandiandi_> cheers lubotu3
<AlanBell> daubers: I used to be involved in a fireworks company (only around november time) I did all the electro-dets
<daubers> \o/
<AlanBell> iandiandi_: lubotu3 is a bot :)
<daubers> AlanBell: I used to build model rockets :)
<popey> czajkowski: Shell -> New Window -> Pro
<AlanBell> iandiandi: is it not working?
<iandiandi> AlanBell: thanks got it now.  I was trying to use Empathy at first and it doesn't seem to allow registration.  On xchat now
<AlanBell> if I pair a bluetooth headset with Ubuntu, what interesting things can I do with it?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you can use it to call people using empathy
<nigelb> hla
<nigelb> *hola
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you can look like an idiot, wearing a bluetooth headset ;)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: (you know those people talking to thin air)
 * AlanBell gets it working with pulse
 * AlanBell puts MartijnVdS on /ignore ;)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's all plug/click and play
 * Myrtti has a Nokia bluetooth bobble that can be used with any headsets
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I have one of these: http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=508754
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Attaches to the amplifier :)
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: you can look like an idiot - HAHA
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: that's the thing bluetooth headsets are best at ;)
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: heh, I agree though.
<AlanBell> so do I actually
<AlanBell> but having lost my streak I am on an old handset with a somewhat broken microphone
<nigelb> AlanBell: Dell Streak?
<AlanBell> so I got a headset to make me sound better, and look worse
<popey> "lost"
<popey> :)
<nigelb> Also, 'lost'?
<AlanBell> yeah
 * nigelb waves to popey 
 * AlanBell wonders what handsets will be available on June 11th
<nigelb> What's special on June 11?
<AlanBell> I get an upgrade on the contract
 * MartijnVdS guesses a contract renewal
<nigelb> I thought it was your birthday :p
<AlanBell> it is a rolling 24 month contract with upgrades every 12 months
<nigelb> aah
<AlanBell> my birthday is on the 16th June
 * nigelb lives a more peaceful life re: phone
 * AlanBell will be 100100
<nigelb> hah
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ah, 24 :)
<nigelb> no no, 19
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: no, 0x24
<nigelb> ah
<AlanBell> 44 in octal
<gord> these days i much prefer buying my own phones rather than getting one with a contract, the freedom is worth it :)
<nigelb> gord++
 * MartijnVdS loves his contract-free Nexus One
<MartijnVdS> if they'd only upgrade it to 2.3 :\
<MartijnVdS> *shakes fist at Google*
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: get the daily builds
<nigelb> my colleague runs a daily build on his nexus one
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: I want official builds
<gord> i'v lost interest in 2.3 now.. honestly you can get the home screen and the keyboard on the android market these days. apart from that what do you want?
<nigelb> I think he uses the cyanogen one
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: yeah I'm not using that..
<MartijnVdS> for several reasons :)
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: heh
 * dutchie wants a better phone :(
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<Pendulum> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning Pendulum
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<dutchie> \o/
<MartijnVdS> <<o
<dutchie> there must be a way to do the YMCA here
<MartijnVdS> nah
<Pendulum> \o/ /o\ o= Ã´ ?
<Pendulum> not perfect, but pretty close
<dutchie> pretty good
<Joeb454> Pendulum: you could try using one of these: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C3%B4
<Pendulum> Joeb454: I did
<Joeb454> Pendulum: ah, must be my terminal deciding unicode isn't worthy
 * Joeb454 investigates
<nigelb> o/
<issyl0> AlanBell: I'm not, sadly. I didn't sign up in time. I'll be at the presentations though - wouldn't miss at least part of an RS event for the world!
<AlanBell> issyl0: the G&T cake was great
<issyl0> AlanBell: you lucky thing!
<AlanBell> you need to try and get Emma to make that again
<issyl0> AlanBell: I'll try!
<AlanBell> are you doing the hack the government one?
<issyl0> AlanBell: yes - I was the first to sign up for that :P
<AlanBell> oh yeah, you said :)
 * AlanBell has the memory of a goldfish
 * Pendulum just parsed that completely wrong and nearly asked "what goldfish?"
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: /dev/goldfish
<issyl0> Pendulum: oh dear :P
<Myrtti> chuggachugga says the little home server and renders minecraft maps, again
 * Pendulum is still fighting against buying minecraft
<Pendulum> it may be a losing battle, but I'm not sure yet
<Myrtti> FUTILE!
<Pendulum> one of my mates has taken to showing me the map she plays on almost every time we chat on skype :-/
 * brobostigon doesnt have a machine capable of running minecraft apparently.so doesnt need to worry.
<AlanBell> Pendulum: resistance is futile
<brobostigon> the borg*
<daubers> brobostigon: They'll get bored of it eventually
<brobostigon> daubers: maybe, like most things,
<Pendulum> I have to say that minecraft has managed to keep more people I know occupied longer than most things
<brobostigon> starship titanic, keptme occupied for years, untill i solved and finsihed it.
<issyl0> 26
<issyl0> Er.
<nigelb> issyl0: 42
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> lol
<nigelb> Pendulum: There are things like Age of Empires.
<brobostigon> issyl0: thats hhgttg.
<issyl0> Eh?
<nigelb> Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
<issyl0> Ah.
 * issyl0 has never seen it. Or Star Wars.
 * issyl0 != geek.
<nigelb> issyl0: I beg to differ.  You are on IRC.  You are a geek :)
<brobostigon> http://www.starshiptitanic.com/
<AlanBell> issyl0 == geek
<AlanBell> evaluates to True
<Pendulum> issyl0: you need to read hitchhikers guide the galaxy :P
<nigelb> AlanBell: I agree.
<nigelb> AlanBell: Now we know what to gift issyl0 at her next birthday.
<Pendulum> and the book first before the movie
<issyl0> nigelb: hehe, alright :)
<issyl0> AlanBell: thanks
<issyl0> :P
<daubers> issyl0: And read Dirk Gently too! Far better than H2G2 IMHO
<Pendulum> daubers: true, but people reference H2G2 more
<nigelb> issyl0: Also, you can skip the h2g2 movie, just read all the books ;)
 * issyl0 has to go.
<issyl0> I'll chat later.
<issyl0> AlanBell: see you later :)
<nigelb> What I love best is this http://lmgtfy.com/?q=answer+to+life+the+universe+and+everything
<brobostigon> and get a copy of the dirk gently tv prog the bbc made.
<Pendulum> brobostigon: so the BBC dirk gently is worth watching?
<hcfd> Hmm. My 10.04 LTS installation, I just noticed, did not install the PAE kernel even though I have 8GB RAM. Simple fix, but.. surprised I had to do it at all.
<brobostigon> Pendulum: definatly, it was really good.
<brobostigon> Pendulum: i have a copy here, courtasy of get_iplayer. they only made a single episode.
<gord> hcfd, sure you didn't have the 64-bit version?
<hcfd> gord: Positive. Also, only 4GB seen.
<gord> although maybe 10.04 didn't do it automatically, i can't remember that far back!
<hcfd> I think even 9.10 is supposed to (server version)
<hcfd> Well, gotta reboot and compile a module from a patchwork quilt. *fingers crossed*
<AlanBell> issyl0: I can't go to this one
<gord> i know my 32 bit install of natty did
<n1md4> afternoon
<ball> Mornin'
<n1md4> Got a weird problem with a daap share.  I use Rhythmbox to connect, but one of the artists is missing from the list.  I've tried all sorts of restarts; mt-daap, and rhythmbox, deleting caches, etc, and rescanning the audio list using firefly web-front end, still the artist is missing.
<jacobw> Afternoon
<n1md4> ...just going to try a test, from another computer.
<ball> Mornin' emma
 * daubers nips out to grab some lunch
<n1md4> That didn't work, still missing an artist from daap share :-/
<n1md4> damned permissions!  Fixed it, didn't have read permission set.
<fujisan>  Where do you buy a i3 2100 in the UK?
<BigRedS> I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing that the huge majority of #empathy hashtags on Twitter are about the 'normal' meaning of the word, rather than the software
<dutchie> BigRedS: are you aware of Help -> Debug?
<dutchie> (from the contact list)
<BigRedS> dutchie: nope. Awesome! Cheers!
<dutchie> np
 * BigRedS should turn to IRC before Twitter in future :)
<jacobw> How does one cut out a peice of an audio file with Jokosher?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Kwabena Aning] LaTeX editors - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/253
<Azelphur> has anyone noticed with youtube recently, I'll start watching a video and it'll stream way too slowly, like 20KB/sec and it'll continually stop to buffer
<Azelphur> then you hit refresh and it zooms up to 500KB/sec and works fine
<exobuzz> youtube is constantly just rubbish for me
<AlanBell> sounds like it is working as designed then exobuzz
<exobuzz> hehe
<exobuzz> Azelphur, btw, i have xbmc working nicely now on ubuntu maverick etc. in case you use your joggler still :
<exobuzz> :) even
<Azelphur> cool :D
<Azelphur> I need to get it going again but still not sure what to do about storage
<Azelphur> it nuked those microsd's so fast lol
<Azelphur> and I don't want a huge external USB device
<exobuzz> small usb stick ?
<Azelphur> any recommendations? :D
<exobuzz> ive got a couple of http://www.amazon.co.uk/Super-Talent-8GB-Pico-C-Chrome/dp/B001BAW7P4
<bigcalm> sanddisk
<exobuzz> they write at about 8-10mb/second and read at 25mb ish
<Azelphur> exobuzz: got a photo of what that looks like in the joggler? looks like it'd sticko ut :(
<exobuzz> it sticks out a bit.. like 1.5cm
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/December%202010/IMG_20101208_021003.jpg
<exobuzz> you could try maybe http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11546 if you want even smaller. slower though
<Azelphur> my micro usb readers looked so cool
<bigcalm> I have a usb hub plugged into mine. That hides under the stand so memory and kb connections are out of sight
<exobuzz> i prefer some speed and sticking out a bit
<exobuzz> bigcalm, yeh that works nicely too
<Azelphur> exobuzz: it's for a clock, so speed isn't an issue ;)
<Azelphur> once it boots it'll just sit there.
<Azelphur> Read only filesystem is even an option
<exobuzz> you should use it for more than a clock. heh
<exobuzz> i mean you could watch iplayer on it or something
<Azelphur> exobuzz: well I was thinking a mythtv enabled alarm clock
<exobuzz> or stream porn. i mean videos
<bigcalm> Azelphur: did you try out http://idophp.co.uk/projects/touch_alarm/
<Azelphur> bigcalm: that's nothing compared to my joggleclock :o
<exobuzz> xbmc looks great on it. nice to have it working again
<Azelphur> bigcalm: did you look at my photo
 * bigcalm looks
<exobuzz> also no full screen hacks. i patched up the xbmc code to work properly with touchscreen in fullscreen mode
<bigcalm> I haven't played with it for a long time. Does all that I want it to do
<bigcalm> I see, very nice
<Azelphur> :D
<exobuzz> http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/source/xbmc/ (fyi)
<exobuzz> i still need to set upo my bed joggler to use your clock
<Azelphur> bigcalm: the activity log displays highlights/ims and the counters in the middle work apart from the unread email one, the weather works too. It's conky :)
<exobuzz> Azelphur, is your clock stuff public ?
<Azelphur> exobuzz: it's just conky
<exobuzz> your config though
<Azelphur> I think I lost it when my microsd died :(
 * Azelphur has a nose around
<exobuzz> *cough* backups
<Azelphur> yup, that's where I put it, got it all here :P
<Azelphur> exobuzz: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/Feburary%202011/Joggleclock.zip it's complete and utter crap :D
<exobuzz> thanks. ill take a look
<exobuzz> :
<exobuzz> :)
<exobuzz> bigcalm, tried out h/w acc video decoding ?
<exobuzz> its pretty cool to see 1080p h264 video playing on the joggler with 15% cpu usage
<exobuzz> (downscaled to 800x480 of course heh)
<bigcalm> Really?
<exobuzz> yeh
<bigcalm> I haven't done anything with it for months
<bigcalm> Work got in the way
<bigcalm> Speaking of which. I should switch to the work station and finish off a Drupal skin :(
<exobuzz> works with latest emgd. http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/mint/ has it pre-installed
<exobuzz> mplayer -va vaapi -vo vaapi /path/to/video.mkv for example
<bigcalm> Ta :)
<exobuzz> work stuff ? ive done a couple of drupal sites. i was mostly impressed with drupal
<bigcalm> I'm more of a backend coder
<bigcalm> Messing with CSS is a PitA
<exobuzz> with drupal, i have to use semantic views module or i lose my mind with all the bloat views makes
<exobuzz> but i liked that it didnt take too long with drupal for example to do some custom modules etc and i like how everthing is split into modules
<bigcalm> It's very versatile
<lazarus_> sup
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> is there a fairly secure way to control an ubuntu installation remotely from another ubuntu installation?
<moreati> pr0ph3t: !ssh
<moreati> !ssh
<lubotu3> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH for client usage. PuTTY is an SSH client for Windows; see: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ for it's homepage. See also !scp (Secure CoPy) and !sshd (Secure SHell Daemon)
<pr0ph3t> moreati, I thought you couldn't nowdays with routers?
<pr0ph3t> thanks by the way
<moreati> pr0ph3t: ssh works over tcp, and hence through routers. Do you mean NAT?
<pr0ph3t> moreati, I mean I can't connect to his ip because it's simply a local ip, but I can't connect to the gateway ip either right?
<moreati> pr0ph3t: right, you did mean NAT.
<pr0ph3t> moreati, sorry I didn't know I did mean that :P
<moreati> pr0ph3t: What are you trying to accomplish - beyond connecting to this remote PC?
<pr0ph3t> moreati, my dad is really bad with computers and lives abroad and he needs me to manage some things remotely
<pr0ph3t> I will have to gain root access which is quite unsafe right?
<pr0ph3t> I'll need tunneling?
<moreati> pr0ph3t: 2 ways. 1) Have him install sshd, create a user account and open ports on his NAT router. 2) Both install Skype or Empathy and use desktop sharing
<pr0ph3t> moreati, installing skype and empathy is exactly what he's trying to do now and can't do :P
<moreati> pr0ph3t: Installing sshd and opening ports is likely to be an even greater challenge
<pr0ph3t> moreati, skype is not in the repos
<pr0ph3t> I'm giving him commands to paste in the console
<pr0ph3t> sudo apt-get install sshd
<moreati> pr0ph3t: yes it is, on 10.10 at least, and Empathy is installed out of the box
<Neoti> hi all... iv just had a total memory block i can not think how to SSH to com1 ...
<Neoti> any help
<tugrik> "com1"?
<tugrik> do you mean the serial port?
<Neoti> a serial port
<Neoti> es
<Neoti> yes
<tugrik> SSH is the wrong program, but I know what you mean :)
<tugrik> look at "minicom"
<Neoti> yep thats the prog ... im glad someone knew what i ment
<Neoti> :)
<Jibadeeha> i am liking the unity now in 11.04 alpha 2
<Jibadeeha> what do you guys think to it
<czajkowski> AlanBell: :D
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-06
 * popey hugs andylockran 
<exobuzz> christ. im such an idiot.. rested touchpad against a unstable object watching a video. saw it toppling, dived underneath, throwing drink all over myself and the touchpad, albeit saving the touchpad from a hard fall. could be called a good save id it wasnt for my own stupidity in the first place..
<exobuzz> hardware seems fine.. well the touchpad.. i think i bruised myself. heh
<exobuzz> doh
<exobuzz> note to self.. although the loo roll in the kitchen seemed stable, it was a really dumb ass choice of rest..
<Azelphur> x5
<Azelphur> oops o.O
<imexil> Hi, anyone using chromium on ubuntu. I was wondering how I could get the menu bar integration actiavted. (I'm on 11.10)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Firefox has just badly starting crashing on me sine it updated to v10 this morning. It won't even let me login to Google ffs, in a new profile :-( Think it'll be a mostly chrome day today...)
<daubers> Looks like my car battery needs to be replaced :(
<dwatkins> morning folks
<dwatkins> daubers: problems starting the car?
<daubers> dwatkins: Occasionally it's taking more to turn over :( Trying to trickle charge the battery back to life, but it's not really taking any ampage
<dwatkins> daubers: petrol or diesel?
<diplo> daubers, Mine gets like that in the winter, especially with the minus degrees we have been getting
<dwatkins> I had troubles last winter, turned out my diesel's glow plugs were on their way out so the engine wasn't pre-warming enough.
<diplo> Ah that is a good thought
<DJones> Morning all
<daubers> dwatkins: diesel
<daubers> dwatkins: glow plugs where replaced 6 months ago in the service
<dwatkins> daubers: oh, hmm
<daubers> dwatkins: Battery is possibly 10 years old
<popey> does it get used daily?
<popey> imexil: menu bar integration?
<imexil> hi popey
<imexil> yes, I still have the "close" "minimise" and "maximise icons sitting on the tab row and not in the top row
<dwatkins> daubers: ah ok, perhaps best to get it replaced, then - you need quite a lot of current for the glowplugs
<popey> imexil: hit the spanner and choose settings
 * TheOpenSourcerer appears to have just received a large number of new OpenERP leads :-)
<popey> imexil: there's an option to use the native theme
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yay
<TheOpenSourcerer> ~38 by the looks of it
<AlanBell> about that
 * popey wonders if Daviey made it back from fosdem
<imexil> popey: found it THANKS!
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks the phone may a tad warm for a while.
<popey> hmm, hdmi port on x220 doesn't look like standard hdmi
<AlanBell> they did manage to pass us one of the other partners as a lead
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I saw that ;-)
 * brobostigon shakes his fist at all these mono updates in debian.
<daubers> dwatkins: yeah, the short commute to work is probably making it a lot worse too
 * TheOpenSourcerer makes a tarball of his backed up ff profile from last night. Since this morning (after updating to 10) firefox crashes repeatedly...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Looks like it will be a Chrome only day today.
<ali1234> updating... to 10?
<ali1234> i'm on 11
<dwatkins> daubers: yeah, I imagine it might
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: Firefox 11 is not released
<ali1234> *shrug*
<brobostigon> 11 is beta.
<ali1234> it's what i have...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway that is moot. Firefox managed to completely break this morning. Badly.
<ali1234> does anyone ever use tab groups?
<popey> brobostigon: you can uninstall mono if you don't use any mono apps
<oimon> how weird. 2 gmail chat windows in chromium were using 60% of cpu
<oimon> and 600mb ram
<brobostigon> popey: only one i use, it that notetaking app, i cant remember what it is called.
<brobostigon> tomboy, that is it.
 * daubers doesn't mind mono
<daubers> c# isn't a bad language
<popey> brobostigon: do you use the sync feature of tomboy?
<oimon> tomboy sync  is the main reason i use ubuntu one
<brobostigon> popey: yes, i have it synced to a folder in my dropbox.
<oimon> brobostigon: does gnote not offer that functionality?
<brobostigon> oimon: never tried it, no idea.
<popey> no oimon
<popey> it doesnt do sync
<oimon> how lame
<popey> which is why i was asking if brobostigon used the sync feature
<oimon> i use docky for mono also, but i understand it's getting rewritten in vala  for elementary
<brobostigon> it would be good though, if tomboy could start in login.
<popey> it can
<oimon> wfm
<brobostigon> popey: how?
<popey> i have it started at login on my ubuntu machine
<popey> dunno on debian, I use unity on ubuntu which has a 'startup applications' thing in the cog in the corner
<brobostigon> ok,
<brobostigon> there might be something similer for gnome3.
 * Daviey did
<Daviey> popey: :)
 * directhex lands
<brobostigon> gnome-session-properties, is the app. :)
 * brobostigon wonders what directhex jumped out of, to have landed?
<directhex> bed!
<gord> hum. went off to make coffee, came back and the computer was asking for my password. just put it in so i could get on with things. possibly not the best with security me
<brobostigon> ah, lol. ok. :)
<oimon> brobostigon: popey , since you are using dropbox there is a workaround to sync notes with gnote & dropbox, since you can symlink the .local/share/gnote folder in dropbox
 * bigcalm summons himself from the afterlife
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<popey> oimon: thats not wise
<popey> and expressly not-recommended by the tomboy devs
<oimon> why's that? high chance of losing/corrupting data?
<popey> yes
<popey> and I have experienced exactly that
<oimon> :(
<oimon> :( :(
<oimon> i can foresee a similar position to brobostigon that i only require mono for tomboy in future
<popey> yeah, i only use mono for tomboy, but I don't particularly care
<popey> its not like there are daily updates to the whole mono stack
<brobostigon> oimon: only difference being, there is no folder symlinking, the folder is directly in the dropbox folder.
<brobostigon> eeek, seesmic just locked hard on android, and android rebooted.
<brobostigon> it did it again, :(
<alexcockell> Twitter clients do seem to be the leasiest in memory terms...
<alexcockell> *leakiest
<alexcockell> Morning, by the way
<brobostigon> morning alexcockell
<alexcockell> At least Gwibber holds around the same level of memory usage - and seems to be the friendliest client out there...
<alexcockell> More hassle inthe Wintel world, tbh..
<brobostigon> alexcockell: it is a twitter client, yes, but i was trying to update from identica when it did that.
<alexcockell> Ah.
<alexcockell> Does Seesmic rely on AIR?
<alexcockell> I seem to remember that the desktop version does..
<TheOpenSourcerer> Best twitter client for Ubuntu is Hotot IMHO
<alexcockell> Is it in the repos?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Been using it for months now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> alexcockell: It's got a PPA
<alexcockell> Ah - are there plans to get it into the regular repos?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://hotot.org/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have no idea.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ask the devs
<brobostigon> alexcockell: no idea, but i certainly do not, have adobe air installed here in android.
<alexcockell> Cool - does seem to be a hell of a memory sieve at the best of times...
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone! :D
<Wobbo>  I am trying to view a MP4 (MPEG4-video, 1920x1080, 30f/s) but its stuttering. My mobile has no problems, why doesn't my Ubuntu 11.04 doesn't show it smoothly. Anyone have a tip to solve it?
<popey> Wobbo: what video card does your computer have?
<Wobbo> an Ati
<popey> no idea, sorry.
<bigcalm> Your mobile is likely down sampling that resolution
<Wobbo> HD 6900
<bigcalm> Wobbo: do you have restricted drivers installed?
<Wobbo> yep, the onse from ATI
<popey> Bah! New laptop is broken.
<bigcalm> :'(
<popey> boot up and get "2100: Detection error on HDD0 (Main HDD)"
<bigcalm> Back to China it goes
<popey> i have next business day warranty
<popey> they can come out and fix the thing!
<bigcalm> Might just be the hdd that's br0ked
<bigcalm> You voided that warranty by installing nasty Linux on it. If it's not Windows, it's not legit
<popey> er, no.
<bigcalm> :P
<Wobbo> My laptop is hase nvidia-ion but i am using on-restricted.
<Wobbo> My laptop has the same problems.
<popey> lenovo support site says "Reset the hard drive". What the hell does that mean?
<bigcalm> popey: if the rest of Canonical use that laptop, maybe they should have dedicated support for it ;)
<popey> hah
<popey> i paid for next day, I'm gonna use it
<AlanBell> popey: probably means re-seat the hdd, as in remove it and slam it back in again
<directhex> raise it a few feet above the ground at the corect angle, and drop it, to re-eat the memory packs
<directhex> also, a small blob of blu-tac can help keep them in place
<directhex> it's still the 1980s, right?
<bigcalm> Wish it were
<bigcalm> Music would be much better
<smittix> Morning all
<gord> i treat my laptop far too much like my previous netbooks that had ssd's - throw it everywhere, gonna regret it some day
<bigcalm> Yup
 * popey phones lenovo
<gord> just need to get an SSD really
<gord> the thinkpad is far too useful as a convenience device to treat it with kid gloves
<bigcalm> I treat my Xoom tablet like it'll break if I don't smile at it every day. Very precious about it.
<christel> hahaha
<christel> you're so weird
<bigcalm> :D
<gord> hrm.... new idea, put face recognition tech into unity, detect frowns. display placekitten.com pictures every time frown is detected
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: i use hotot but it does suffer from memory leakage
<oimon> and a slightly non-conforming gui
<bigcalm> christel: I was the same with my Nexus One when I got it (though I did buy that direct from Google and it cost me a packet). That was some time ago and it's since got quite a few scrapes/dents in the casing. I am a clumsy bloke after all
<bigcalm> gord: perfect idea!
<gord> i know people who still keep their nexus one in the little pocket you get with it, iruno, i just throw mine in the same pocket as my keys, worked fine so far ;)
<shauno> ugh.  half an hour of trying to track down bizarre and seemingly unrelated faults, until I stumbled across a tell-tale 'No space left on device'
<bigcalm> gord: I use the neoprene pocket that came with the Nexus One. I'm sure it's saved it from far worse than case dents
<gordonjcp> shauno: heh
<gordonjcp> shauno: thunderbird silently failing to download emails, sort of thing?
<bigcalm> gord: I'm going to be lost without the wee pocket when I replace the handset with an S2 or whatever is available in April
<shauno> gordonjcp, not far off, but it was on the server's end.  so thunderbird claiming my password was wrong
<bigcalm> logwatch FTW!
<bigcalm> Which is a point. Should set it up on my bytemark host
<shauno> I left my VPS grabbing some pdfs last night.  apparently completely underestimated their size
<ali1234> what ever happened to putting "test pilot" features in to unity?
 * brobostigon is concerned, his htc dream, just shutdown, and wouldnt start up again, untill i pulled the battery out, and put it back in again.
<popey> lenovo dude sent me to http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/downloads/detail.page?&DocID=DS025448
<popey> to download the linux based diagnostics CD
<gordonjcp> shauno: lol
<gord> ali1234, they got put in to unity?
<ali1234> gord: really? why isn't it asking me to submit results then?
<ali1234> and where can i see metrics?
<bigcalm> popey: customer support that know what they are talking about?!
<popey> i suspect this is standard answer
<gord> ali1234, submit results?
<ali1234> yes, the information gathered?
<gord> because we aren't asking people to submit tests?
<ali1234> so the feature is there but not used?
<gord> it is used
<ali1234> used only internally?
<gord> its our test suite
<gord> pretty much
<ali1234> so it's not like test pilot at all then
<gord> its auto pilot - its for automatic testing
<ali1234> that's the exact opposite of test pilot
<ali1234> i'll give you an example of the kind of question test pilot answers
<popey> The box you get when a window pops up. Do you call them "Dialog" or "Dialogue"?
<bigcalm> I've seen 'dialog' more frequently
<popey> i always thought it was 'dialog' in computer speak
<popey> like programme/program
<ali1234> when you click on an item on the launcher, if there are multiple windows, it first gives you the most recent window of that group. if you click it again, it shows the switcher
<bigcalm> It's like having to use program instead of programme
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> ;)
<ali1234> how often is the most recent used window of the group actually thew window the person wants?
<ali1234> and how often does the user immediately click on the launcher again because it was the wrong window?
<ali1234> (i find myself doing that a lot)
<ali1234> another thing you could detect is how often an attempt to resize a window gets blocked by the overlay scrollbar
<BigRedS> Is there a step-through debugger for PHP? I have a script that strace tells me is sitting waiting on polling a socket and I'm trying to work out what its doing just beforehand.
<BigRedS> it's fastcgi so there's no need to replicate any of mod_php
<ali1234> i'd be interested to know how much people actually use the dash as well
<ali1234> for each lens
<ali1234> and do people select a specific lens before searching, or do they first try the global search, and then switch to a specific lens?
<popey> bah, just burned a CD and then remembered the x220 doesn't have an optical drive
<popey> *belm*
<ali1234> you spelled derp wrong
<popey> hope it works off a usb stick
<shauno> you broke your new toy already?
<oimon> i've found cables become unseated during transit on occasion. internal drive connector and lcd screens too
<popey> i have reseated the drive
<popey> gonna run diags though
<popey> there's not a lot of room for it to become unsteated
<popey> given it's a laptop
<oimon> but how does the sata slot join to the motherboard ?
<oimon> soldered?
<oimon> i suppose if yuo're gonna open a new toy up, you might as well get an engineer to do it :D
<shauno> on mine, there's not actually space for the sata plug to come unseated; you have to unscrew the drive and remove it from the plug, rather than move the plug
<shauno> I'm constantly amazed at how efficiently they manage to use/abuse every last mm in these things
<dwatkins> I'm surprised other laptop manufacturers havn't started making them out of aluminium as well as Apple
<dwatkins> there's very little room for movement in my Macbook Pro.
<popey> yeah, i love the feel of the mbp
<davmor2> morning all
<dwatkins> I'd like to triple-boot mine when I have a larger disk
<dwatkins> hi davmor2
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod get up and on line
<gord> always felt like macbooks are too big for me, like my laptops tiny
<shauno> well, good news, 4 years later, they're starting to catch up to the macbook air :)
<popey> and everyone else is copying them
<gordonjcp> I don't like small laptops
<gordonjcp> I want one with a full-size keyboard with decent travel, and a lot of battery
<gord> then you want an x220 ;) tiny laptop, full sized keyboard, lots of battery
<gordonjcp> I don't want a tiny laptop
<gordonjcp> that's the point
<gordonjcp> fiddly annoying things
<gordonjcp> I want something with a 22" screen and an IBM Model M type keyboard
<gordonjcp> I'm not really fussed if it's a big heavy thing, I'm a big heavy thing
<gordonjcp> as long as it's under about 15kg it'll be fine
<gord> laptop to me is a portable computer, if its not easily portable i might as well be using a desktop
<gordonjcp> well that is easily portable
<gordonjcp> I don't particularly care about using one while walking around, I have an android phone for that
<dwatkins> My laptop sits on my desk in a docking station unless I want to work from home or take it into a meeting to do a presentation.
<dwatkins> It's handy to have the option, but I don't move it very often.
<popey> bah, passed diags
<oimon> ok chaps - just ordered my valentines card from a moonpig type site which is giving Â£5 credit away free and no credit card details required if spend is under Â£5
<gord> how romantic ;)
<dwatkins> as gord says
<popey> not getting one of these then? http://newslite.tv/2012/02/06/asda-launch-7p-valentines-day.html
<bigcalm> Tempting
<oimon> 7p ? ripoff. i got mine for free :D
<dwatkins> or one of these? http://farm1.staticflickr.com/23/37297133_5717d2b86a.jpg ;)
<oimon> for a proper cheapskate, you could take a photo of a card you like and upload the photo
<bigcalm> Reminds me that I need to book a table at the balti house I proposed in last year
<dwatkins> I'm reminded of this reddit comment: "My perfect Valentine's day? I'm at home, three cell phones in front of me, fielding desperate calls from people who want to buy one of the fifty restaurant reservations I made over six months ago."
<oimon> heh lol
<oimon> takeaways on valentines day are much more romantic
<dwatkins> oh sorry, it was from this image: http://i.imgur.com/zUofL.png (SFW)
<dwatkins> oimon: indeed
<tugrik> heh dwatkins :)
<oimon> busiest day of the year for eating out. women must be high maintenance if they insist getting taken out on 14th feb
<gord> nooo
<gord> it was from the actual tv show >:(
<dwatkins> yeah, it's much nicer to choose a random day sometime around then and go out to a quiet restaurant, if you need to go out
<oimon> now to find a present :-\
<dwatkins> oimon: Big Trak ;)
<oimon> with a chocolate on top
<directhex> well i just asked wifey what our valentines plans were, she suggested dominos on friday 17th
<dwatkins> directhex is very lucky
<popey> \o/ pizza
<bigcalm> Oh my goodness. A client just renewed their SSL cert on Rackspace. 599 quid for 1 year?!
<dwatkins> Must be a dot com.
<bigcalm> ?
<dwatkins> I assume their domain is something.com, hence the cost.
<bigcalm> Oh, is that how it works?
<oimon> http://vimeo.com/26489936 << massive waste of paper but quite fun
 * daubers tends to cook on Valentines day
<dwatkins> I think there are also tiers for the type of verification, whether it's a green thing in the browser or just that https works, bigcalm - not sure exactly.
<bigcalm> I see
<dwatkins> perhaps it is just the type of certificate that governs the price, but I would expect ISPs to try and make extra cash on popular domain names with this too.
 * dwatkins sees the name "Go Daddy" and ignores it entirely
<oimon> dwatkins: because of slutty advertising or SOPA?
<dwatkins> oimon: initially because their website is like watching the shopping channel
<dwatkins> I admit my opnions of them have been coloured by the whole SOPA thing, and the reddit campaign against them, but from what I understand, GoDaddy have done some pretty underhand things, and the guy who runs the company has some questionable hobbies.
<ali1234> oimon: nice idea but you know what they say. make something idiot proof and they will build a better idiot
<directhex> the elephaqnt hunting?
<dwatkins> directhex: that was indeed what I was referring-to, yes
<Dave2> Using GoDaddy is a pretty painful experience
<shauno> hm, well that didn't last long.  thunderbird is absolutely hopeless :/
<dwatkins> new version, shauno?
<shauno> appears to be 10, not sure if that makes a difference tho
<shauno> there appears to be absolutely zero indication of any new mail within a collapsed thread.  I kinda need a client that can thread :)
<AlanBell> it underlines it
<popey> yup, underlines the top main the the thread if there is new mail inside
<shauno> hm.  I must be going blind then, because I didn't spot that in a full folder
 * dwatkins closes the Ally Sheedy tab and winks at shauno 
<dwatkins> It's a lovely day to walk to the shop to get some lunch.
<brobostigon> it is something like 3/4 degress celcius, and foggy here.
<oimon> it seems mac os lion latest update broke cups for our users :-\
<dwatkins> oimon: I've heard lots of issues with the most recent Lion updates :-/
<ali1234> OS X uses cups?
<brobostigon> yes.
<AlanBell> very much so, they hired the cups developer
<brobostigon> interesting, didnt know that,
<daubers> oimon: I thought they pulled the delta update?
<daubers> oimon: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/02/apple-pulls-crashtacular-10-7-3-delta-update/
<mattt> morning
<mattt> miserable day here in reading
<dwatkins> mattt: I used to live in Reading, it's not got the best weather in the UK, sadly
 * dwatkins heads off to wish he brought his sunglasses and observe the Pentland hills whilst walking to Tesco
<oimon> daubers: i've had 2 users complaining their printers have pdisappeared and remote queues can't be added after updating
<oimon> lion sounds like a complete fail so far, with the amount of issues we've had to look into
<directhex> lion achieves its main purpose
<gordonjcp> I'm looking for recommendations for a podcatcher for android, if anyone has one
<popey> gordonjcp: dogcatcher is the one I hear people mention iirc
<gord> just learnt that time team is on youtube provided by 4oD. time to be a nerd i guess
<davmor2> gord, mrevell , bigcalm: You set for Thursday?
<dwatkins> What is Lion's main purpose, directhex?
<mrevell> davmor2, Sure am.
 * mrevell checks bus times
<gord> davmor2, we'll see, will decide on wednesday. feature freeze is next week so busy
<davmor2> dwatkins: surely killing antelope?
<dwatkins> davmor2: I see what you did there
<directhex> dwatkins, to make the desktop/laptop more ipaddy
<directhex> dwatkins, e.g. drag scrolling, the new optional ipad-style launcher
<dwatkins> yeah, directhex - I gather it causes issues with some websites, but I guess I can understand the reason for doing it
<gordonjcp> popey: righto, I'll give it a shot
<gordonjcp> popey: Google Listen falls down badly because it doesn't save the downloaded podcasts in an immediately usable way, and it doesn't stop the device sleeping ;-)
<popey> i couldn' get on with google listen
<gord> gordonjcp, maybe something that would store in ubuntu one? then you can stream using the u1music app
<czajkowski> davmor2: morning
<davmor2> czajkowski: Yay how was fosdem prod?
<czajkowski> good thanks
<gordonjcp> gord: surely then I'd need to keep fiddling with my PC to stick them in U1 to begin with?
<czajkowski> got home very  late though
<gord> gordonjcp, i figure you would have a cronjob or just a service of some sort that gets them whenever your computer is on
<gordonjcp> gord: probably easiest tbh
<gordonjcp> sounds like I have an itch to scratch for a first android project
<davmor2> czajkowski: dirty stop out :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: pesky snow!
<czajkowski> 90+ mins delayed
<davmor2> czajkowski: yeah, yeah any excuse I had a 4 hour train ride to London due to virgin rail derailment if that makes you feel any better :)
<czajkowski> you i london today?
<davmor2> no I was there friday
<BigRedS> davmor2: they will let you back in
<davmor2> BigRedS: well someone has to pick on czajkowski and that is where she is based ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes, I'll be there
<bigcalm> davmor2: is Alex confirmed?
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap
<bigcalm> Please let there be no tab
<dwatkins> my boss has lots of chocolate in her office, I think she's trying to tempt us all to go in there and eat it
<gord> i have lots of chocolate in my office too, if you come in here, you can not have any of it
<gord> its for me
<dwatkins> I'm glad gord isn't my boss.
<gord> if i were your boss there would be a 10% chocolate tax on your salary
<bigcalm> Heh
<dwatkins> I would expect to get that much chocolate each month, then.
<davmor2> bigcalm: no tab I'll stab moreati before he can suggest it :D
<bigcalm> \o/e
<bigcalm> -e
<bigcalm> It works if everybody has the same drink the same number of times. It doesn't work when Alex's drinks cost more than everybody elses
<bigcalm> And we don't all drink at the same rate
<bigcalm> Indervidual tabs that one can pay off at the end of the day would be good though
<bigcalm> Can pay by card then
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed that may well be the way forward
<bigcalm> Other people bring me drinks is something I like
<bigcalm> Right now my mug is empty, which means having to go to the kitchen myself!
<bigcalm> *sigh*
<davmor2> bigcalm: could be worse you could have no water then where would you have to go :P
<bigcalm> I keep a bottle of water on my desk. Best start drinking that now
 * dwatkins joins bigcalm in the kitchen
<bigcalm> Oi, put that coffee back
<dwatkins> it's tea actually.
<andylockran> hello all
<andylockran> :D
<oimon> NXEA no longer run my train franchise. i wonder what my chances of getting delay payments from last month are :-\
<bigcalm> The fog is creeping in
 * popey pokes aquarius in the eye with the notes web interface
<aquarius> oi!
<aquarius> what was that for?
<popey> sadness that we're shutting it down
<aquarius> which is why I'm writing a replacement.
<aquarius> I'd be happy to have your help :)
<popey> :D
<Azelphur> sadness is often expressed in eye poking form :P
<ali1234> popey: you mentioned the other day setting up a youtube account for canonical. i need to set up something like that... got any tips?
<ali1234> did you make a whole google account for it?
<popey> i did
<popey> i have way too many google accounts
<ali1234> what did you put in the "date of birth"
<ali1234> and first name/last name?
<popey> something over 18
<popey> and I made a note of it in case they ever ask me for it
<Azelphur> ali1234: have you seen this KDE Plasma tablet? what are your opinions on it? :)
<popey> for some of them I just put my own details
<popey> assuming it doesn't leak that info in the public UI
<ali1234> i don't think it does... thought you might know :)
<aquarius> popey, you are welcome to ru your own version of my server if you want, although it's not finished yet. We'll be deploying a hosted version :)
<popey> well, for one I put "ubuntu" as the first name and "screencasts" as the last name
<popey> aquarius: based on snowy?
<Azelphur> popey: just remember not to touch google plus with that account, they can/will suspend the entire google account for using an alias on google plus
<popey> Azelphur: no they dont
<popey> they have retracted their real names policy
<ali1234> yeah that's a whole other issue
<ali1234> orly?
<popey> yeah
<Azelphur> oh? that's news to me
<ali1234> not really bothered about not using +
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16700902
<ali1234> nobody involved even knows what it is
<aquarius> popey, no. It's not a server you sync to; you still sync to U1, which we are not turning off, as I have stressed in every single comments thread on the whole internet :) This is a web UI which displays your U1-stored notes.
<ali1234> we will be using facebook and youtube heavily though
<Azelphur> Much better, now I can change mine to Azelphur
<Azelphur> Not like anyone knows me by my real name xD
<ali1234> Azelphur: the KDE tablet looks OK i guess
<ali1234> it's basically a N900 with no phone and a 7" screen and running plasma active
<popey>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
<ali1234> which you can run on a n900
<popey>  2314 alan      20   0  693m  32m 2704 S    0  0.4   3:10.35 ubuntuone-syncd
<Azelphur> ali1234: and better specs :P
<popey> *boggle*
<ali1234> it's not really that much better
<ali1234> also it doesn't use an omap chip, - points for that
<ali1234> although i've not looked for docs on the chip it does use
<ali1234> plasma active isn't really anything to get excited about either
<ali1234> it's another silly new fangled ui
<ali1234> except this one is a layer on top of a layer on top of a layer
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> KDE can run multiple UIs at the same time and active is just one of them
<ali1234> that's nice cos you can plug in a keyboard and mouse and use it like a nomral computer with a "real" UI (in theory anyway)
<ali1234> but on it's own, active is nothing special
<ali1234> there's plenty of videos of it on youtube
<ali1234> it's very much geared towards panels and widgets that show feeds
<ali1234> once you run a real application, it's pretty much just normal KDE
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I actually have all that on my tablet PC anyway
<ali1234> so... what's the question then?
<ali1234> is the hardware good?
<Azelphur> bodhi linux + e17 = winning for tablets, can switch between an Android-like tablet interface and a Laptop interface
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha, you answered the question, was just interested in your views on it :D
<Azelphur> is the hardware good is also a good question :D
<ali1234> with these nw fangled accelerated UIs, hardware power doesn't always guarantee it will work well
<ali1234> just look at unity on nvidia driver for an example of that
<ali1234> you can have the high end gaming rig and UI performance is still slugish
<ali1234> it depends a lot on driver quality
<ali1234> and we won't know that until it ships
<brobostigon> ok, question, we as a household create washing up, ie, that is a noun, now, that washing up, is no one's washing up, but a house households. is that interpretation accurate?
<brobostigon> or am i just picking logic holes?
<Azelphur> suppose so :)
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> brobostigon: can you rephrase that question but with correct use of commas? ;)
<brobostigon> ali1234: i thought i had used commas correctly.
<popey> i think he was pointing out you tend to use a lot of them âº
<popey> depends how you divvy up responsibility
<brobostigon> i see, ok, i used commas, where i would naturally break in speech, maybe a ; might be better?
<popey> i wouldn't bother âº
<brobostigon> popey: we share the job.
<ali1234> what's the question? is this about grammar or trying to avoid doing the washing up?
<popey> lol
<brobostigon> ali1234: it is not about the job, but the definition.
<popey> e.g. for family meal on sunday I cook roast dinner usually and then I wash up as I go, if I am tired at the end sometimes somoene else will offer to do it
<popey> or I will do it, tidy up all done
<popey> everyones washing up but I did it
<ali1234> well i still don't understand
<brobostigon> exactly, that is the point, we share it, but it is everyones washing up.
<popey> I think what you're trying to do is define it, someone else probably just wants you to _do_ it âº
<ali1234> if it belongs to the household it belongs to the individuals in that group
 * brobostigon does his fair share of the washing up, that is not at dispute.
<ali1234> otherwise it belongs to everyone and no one at the same time
<brobostigon> thank you, that has proven my logic,
<brobostigon> i am accurate.
<ali1234> again, wat?
<brobostigon> ali1234: dont worry, you haven given enough information for me to know my logic was accurate.
<ali1234> logic has no place in resolving washing-up disputes
<popey> hah
<brobostigon> ali1234: there is not washing up dispute, just a dispute about the definition of what is washing up.
<popey> bah, openshot is rubbish
<ali1234> i don't believe it
<Azelphur> speaking of google things, does anyone know how I might transfer a youtube account that is associated with a @gmail account to my google apps account?
<brobostigon> ali1234: believe it,
<ali1234> there's always a dispute about washing-up
<popey> bring in a 250MB mkv, drag to the timeline, sends the computer into swapdeath
<ali1234> even if it goes unvoiced
<Azelphur> I really hate having to continually account hop for it, the only stuff I can find online says you can unlink your youtube account if it was created before the youtube/google merge, which mine wasn't
<brobostigon> ali1234: you maybe right, but we have planned it as shared equally, and it works.
<ali1234> lol planning the washing up *never* works
<ali1234> popey: i found it quite buggy. i found a bug while making a video demonstrating a different bug
<brobostigon> ali1234: it does here, my mind works that way.
<ali1234> brobostigon: it will fail the first time someone has a party and invites 20 people round and they create loads of washing up
<ali1234> this is the way it goes
<brobostigon> ali1234: i dont have such parties,
<ali1234> WAT.
<ali1234> you should try it
<ali1234> because your housemates will
<brobostigon> why? it is a mass of confusion and instability, anf noise.
<ali1234> i feel it's likely that you will be the one who ends up doing everyone else's washing up :)
<ali1234> yes, it's called FUN :)
<popey> yes, washing up is fun! :D
<ali1234> lol
<MartijnVdS> popey: especially if a machine does it.
<MartijnVdS> popey: or, lacking a machine, the kids.
<Toamsu__> hallo have problem with orange huawei gsm dongle E173, cant connect, also noticed that in network manager missing uk providers, spend three days trying, sorry to bother you people
<ali1234> brobostigon: yeah just get a dishwasher
<popey> less fun loading/unloading dishwasher
<brobostigon> the most fun about washing up, is when a pretty girl walks past the kitchen window,
<popey> Toamsu__: hello
<Toamsu__> hallo
<brobostigon> simple.
<brobostigon> sorry,
<popey> Toamsu__: the uk network providers _should_ be in there
 * brobostigon consults the OED
<Toamsu__> popey - they are not, i phoned orange just to check if i have proper settins (usrname, password, APN) to set it manually - i got them but still no luck, the device seems its recogniyed properly but have no clue what is going wrong
<popey> Toamsu__: sorry, I dunno, all mine kinda worked
<ali1234> mine used to work, then it stopped
<ali1234> now does pretty much what you described
<ali1234> perhaps because i switched to a different phone
<Toamsu__> we used one from 3 no problems with that one but Orange one stil says GSM disconnect
<ali1234> it probably needs tweaks for that specific device
<Toamsu__> what kind of tweaks, already read a lot over forums, but not clever from that
<ali1234> sending different AT commands before trying to connect
<Toamsu__> any chance to find somebody who can check it remote someway?
 * popey REISUBs his laptop
<Toamsu__> when i told Orange support that running ubuntu thez asked if it is windows :-)
<ali1234> popey: how's trublr going btw?
<AlanBell> Tomasu_: apn for contract should be orangeinternet
<popey> ali1234: not had time to work on it recently, thanks for the nudge
<AlanBell> Tomasu_: number is *99# username orange password orange (I think)
<ali1234> usernames are generally ignored
<Toamsu__> i thought and tryed that one - at the helpline told me that is consumerbroadband
<AlanBell> most of it is ignored
<ali1234> they don't reach the network, PPP is part of the phone stack
<Toamsu__> usr - user
<Toamsu__> and password - pass
<AlanBell> Tomasu_: the other apn settings that network manager should know about are internetvpn and orangewap (but you probably don't want either of these)
<ali1234> hmm
<MartijnVdS> popey: I tend to go with SSSUUSB, instead of REISUB
<AlanBell> I tend to think that things have gone far far too wrong when that happens
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: they will have, so putting the keyboard in XLATE mode is useless :)
<ali1234> i only need to do that about once a year
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: also, killing processes might make things worse
<MartijnVdS> and rebooting will kill them ANYWAY
<AlanBell> long hold of the power button. Might not be as safe, but I am not in a mood to be nice to the computer at that point.
<ali1234> e sends sigterm so that they may shut down gracefully
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes except that might coerce them to come out of swap
<ali1234> and you probably want to kill them before syncing or else they'll just write more stuff to the cache
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and if thrashing swap is the problem... that will make it _worse_
<ali1234> swap? what is swap?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ...
<ali1234> buy 16GB of ram
<ali1234> there is no fix for linux swap thrashing
<AlanBell> popey: so the new laptop is not going so well then?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: My employer won't get me more than 4
<ali1234> :(
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and he thinks that's a lot
<ali1234> unlucky
<ali1234> how do i automatically run a command when i plug in my webcam?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: as your user, or as root?
<popey> bug 927755
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 927755 in openshot (Ubuntu) "Dragging video to timeline eats RAM" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927755
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: as user
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: as root -> write a udev script
<ali1234> i need to run a pulseaudio command to make it use the webcam microphone for input
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: as user -> libudev?
<ali1234> i probably need a dbus monitor or something
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but pulse should autodetect/remember that
<ali1234> yeah, it doesn't, it never has
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: blame Lennart
<ali1234> always
<ali1234> bug 640328
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 640328 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Input device is not saved" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/640328
<ali1234> the workaround is open sound settings and select it every time i turn off and then turn on my monitor
<ali1234> or run "pacmd set-default-source alsa_input.usb-046d_0821_A2ABCC10-00-U0x46d0x821.analog-stereo"
<ali1234> it's plugged in to the hub on my monitor you see
<ali1234> that turns off with the monitor
<ali1234> apparently it isn't saved across reboots either but that's slightly less of a problem for me because i never reboot
<popey> ali1234: its not so much the fact that it swaps, its that a 15MB video can cause a video editor to use all the memory on a machine
<Azelphur> http://www.tuaw.com/2012/02/05/study-ios-apps-crash-more-than-android-apps-do/
 * Azelphur runs
<Azelphur> quite a big margin too, it looks like iOS has 3x more crashes than Android
<ali1234> popey: well yeah, that's a different bug. it's possible to legitimately use swap as well
<ali1234> popey: also i'd give even odds on that being caused by gnome-thumbnailer
 * brobostigon is being accurate, and has found a collective noun "washing up"
<brobostigon> in the OED.
<popey> you might want to look up OCD whilst you're there ;)
<brobostigon> hmm, yes, in some ways,:)
<ali1234> popey: a crafted 10mb animated gif can also exhaust physical memory if you go to it's directory in nautilus
<ali1234> and i always forget which directory it is in and do it by accident
<ali1234> but 1 app shouldn't be able to take down the whole machine in those circumstances
<ali1234> i mean it makes swap kind of pointless if the machine instantly crashes when you try to use it
<ali1234> ... and that's why i bought 16GB
<popey> heh
<ali1234> the anim gif can still kill it though
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Canonical Community Team Google+ Hangout - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/06/canonical-community-team-google-hangout/
<Azelphur> damn, shipping import is crazy, buy something for Â£100 -> Â£20 shipping -> Â£40 customs >.>
<Azelphur> so should have found a UK seller for that one :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Any EU one should do
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: no customs fees intra-EU
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16908300 - "popular video on youtube" - slow news day?
<jpds> ali1234: Hey, that's some impressive eye-hand coordination.
<ali1234> waiting for the whole OS to load back from swap :(
<ali1234> it takes significantly longer than just rebooting
<ali1234> but i don't want to reopen all my windows
<ali1234> what are the units for ulimit -d? (bash)
<ali1234> ah kilobytes
<zleap> hi
<zleap> is anyone here ?
<AlanBell> o/ zleap
<zleap> hi
<zleap> i can't get in to my gui
<zleap> i can log in at the console fine,   if I try and do this via the log in screen all i get it taken back to it,  almost as if its trying to start unity or whatever, can't and drops back to login
<zleap> using 11.10
<AlanBell> tried unity2d?
<zleap> how do i switch to a different desktop
<AlanBell> the cog icon to the right of your name
<zleap> nothing happens if i click that
<AlanBell> does a guest session work?
<zleap> no
<zleap> i have a 2nd user that doesn't work either
<zleap> i installed or uninstalled something the other day, as it comes up with a list of stuff it wants to remove along with it,  it tried to remove ubuntu-desktop which someone says is a meta package,  however that team is meaningless to me
<zleap> that was it,  tried to remove xchat-gnome and replace with normal xchat
<AlanBell> so ubuntu-desktop is a package with nothing in it, but it depends on a heap of important stuff
<MartijnVdS> doesn't it Recommend packages these days?
<AlanBell> pass
<MartijnVdS> ah
<zleap> well wheni wanted to remove xchat-gome it has clearly also removed soemthing important
<AlanBell> zleap: if you do sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop it will hopefully set everything right
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: It does both, according to apt-cache
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: some are recommended, others depended
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> well apt should pull those in with it
<zleap> AlanBell, thanks for that,  i was actually going to try that but thought to ask here first
<zleap> maybe i should install xfce or some other lightweight wm as a backup
<popey> 19:15:54 < AlanBell> zleap: if you do sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop it will hopefully set everything right
<popey> that should be sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> (with the caret)
<zleap> ohj
<AlanBell> that is a funny old syntax
<zleap> i just typed it in with oujt
<zleap> what does the caret do
<popey> yes, it will do something without
<czajkowski> Why are Skips (crisps) so hard to find over here, having to have walkers prawn cocktail
<czajkowski> so damn odd
<popey> without the caret you're saying "install the ubuntu-desktop package"
<popey> with the caret you're saying "install the ubuntu-desktop task"
<popey> the package is just a metapackage and wont do much
<zleap> well its doing something after login now,
<popey> the task will pull in everything that normally gets pulled in by an install
<zleap> ok iam back with what i should have
<AlanBell> the package does pull in stuff
<zleap> ok
<popey> not always AlanBell
<zleap> well its working now
<zleap> so what is going on here,  why are packages removing ubuntu-desktop ?
<popey> if you removed something which removed ubuntu-desktop this would happen
<popey> e.g. if you removed firefox
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> so if i remove firefox it will remove ubuntu dsktop even though there are other programs that need it
<popey> other programs that need what?
<zleap> ubuntu-deskto[
<zleap> ubuntu-desktop
<popey> there are no other programs that require ubuntu-desktop
<zleap> ok
<popey> but there's a knock-on effect of removing it
<zleap> right
<AlanBell> zleap: what did it install when you put it back? anything interesting?
<MartijnVdS> Heh.. function please { sudo $(fc -ln | tail -n1) }
<MartijnVdS> If you put that in bashrc (or run it in a shell), you can do:
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install foo
<MartijnVdS> Permission denied
<MartijnVdS> please
<MartijnVdS> <apty output>
<zleap> not sure i can't scroll up in a console
<popey> shift page up
<MartijnVdS> zleap: shift+pgup
<MartijnVdS> zleap: but not after switching virtual consoles
<zleap> well i am at a normal console
<zleap> alt-f1 type console
<AlanBell> zleap: I wouldn't worry about it too much, there is stuff in /var/log/dpkg.log to say what it did
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> browse if curious, or just carry on with life
<popey> +!
<popey> and 1
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: but i wish nano had a way to request elevated permissions *after* you've edited the file
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> argh
<ali1234> valgrind ran out of memory trying to profile openshot
<ali1234> now stuff is getting killed
<popey> hah
<popey> quelle surprise
 * popey hugs OOM Killer
<ali1234> ah it's dead
<ali1234> Valgrind: FATAL: VG_N_SEGMENTS is too low. Inrease it and rebuild.
<diplo> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<ali1234> ...a smoking gun appears...
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Vell?
<ali1234> ah, i think it is stuck in a loop allocating pixbufs
<MartijnVdS> maybe not a loop
<MartijnVdS> well a loop
<MartijnVdS> but on it thinks is useful
<ali1234> yeah
<MartijnVdS> allocating one pixbuf per frame of video?
<ali1234> i have a feeling max_length is negative and it just keeps subtracting from it trying to get to zero which never happens
<MartijnVdS> (what happens if you drop a short segment?)
<ali1234> it is short
 * MartijnVdS hasn't looked at all. You know infinitely more about that code now :)
<ali1234> 895679622
<ali1234> it's just trying to scale an image to a really silly size for some reason
<ali1234> basically it's trying to resize an image to 800 million pixels wide
<ali1234> it is doing this because it thinks the clip is 3 years long for some reason
<MartijnVdS> Integer underflow? :)
<MartijnVdS> (or overflow)
<MartijnVdS> or signedness problem?
<ali1234> yep, or just bad metadata
<MartijnVdS> 32 vs 64 bit?
<MartijnVdS> Never trust metadata unless you've measured it yourself ;)
<ali1234> actually it's a float value
<ali1234> 71654371.0216 (seconds i assume)
<MartijnVdS> could still be a flow thing
<ali1234> length = self.end_time - self.start_time
<ali1234> looks reasonable enough
<MartijnVdS> except you clamp that at 0
<zleap> back in a while, logging in from other pc
<MartijnVdS> in case of le strÃ¤nge
<ali1234> looks like gstreamer or whatever is feeding in garbage
<MartijnVdS> no news there then
<ali1234> lolz
<zleap> back
<popey> ali1234: are you using the video I added to the bug report?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> is it 3 years long?
<popey> because I notice that the video in totem shows a random length
<popey> hah
<popey> I can talk a lot, I know that.. but no
<popey> totem doesn't know the length until it's finished
<popey> this may be a bug in kazam, as it should create a video with decent metadata
<ali1234> the length isn't random, it's 71654371.0216 seconds :P
<popey> hah
<ali1234> or ~800 days
<popey> bet it works if you convert it using ffmpeg first
<MartijnVdS> popey: bug in kazam, but also in the editor for not coping with it sanely.
<popey> or mencoder or whatever
<popey> agreed MartijnVdS
<zleap> what program can i use to create a usb stick that will allow me to boot in to more than one OS image,  e.g i can use start up disk creator to create a start up dis for 11.10 but if i want to have both say 11.10 and 12.04 what can i use ?
<ali1234> this stuff should fail gracefully on bad input damnit
<popey> zleap: grub can boot an iso image
<popey> zleap: so you can put multiple ISOs on one stick and pick which one to boot from
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> but can grub be installed onto said stick?
<zleap> yes, as it does that when i create a boot disk surely
<zleap> start up disk creator seems to copy iso files on to a stick and make it bootable
<ali1234> bootable usb usually uses syslinux or whatever it's called these days
<zleap> ok
<zleap> hmm
<ali1234> syslinux can do a menu but i don't know of any tools that set it up for you
<ali1234> you have to learn how to make everything by hand...
<zleap> ok
<popey> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/
<ali1234> sweet
<zleap> thanks
<popey> http://florian.freundt.org/blog/?p=161
<popey> lots of guides online
<ali1234> er windows only?
<popey> that was just the first hit
<popey> multiple iso usb stick grub
<popey> those are the magic google words
<popey> :D
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/MultipleISOBootUSBKey
<popey> there you go, must be accurate it's on our wiki and written by one of our kernel maintainers :D
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<mgdm> there's a danger they might know what they're on abotu
<ali1234> do i detect some sarcasm?
<popey> :D
<davmor2> ali1234: on this channel NEVER!
<mgdm> "It's on the Internet, it must be true!"
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: that one works great at parties when someone 'read on the internet..'
<zleap> ok side question,   netbook has 10.04,  just booted a flash drive with 11.10 if I get it to upgrade it should work right
<zleap> rather than going 10.04 - 10.10 - 11.04,
<zleap> will have a look at that see if I can get a multi boot pendrive created
<ali1234> see if you can get freedos on there with a writable C:\ too, that's what i really want
<zleap> that would be good for some of my old dos games,  and getting virtual box to boot in to dos
<ali1234> and flashing bioses and stuff
<ali1234> iso no good for that, cos you always have to copy another file on there
<ali1234> or backup the existing one or something
<ali1234> also yu should be able to go LTS to LTS
<ali1234> when so 10.04 to 12.04 when it's out
<ali1234> directly
<ali1234> never tried it myself though
<popey> I think last time we recommended people waited till 10.04.1 before trying 8.04->10.04
<gord> anyone happen to know of any small devices like jogglers (cheep) but not crap hardware?
<gord> want to make myself a nifty clock
<ali1234> you want something with OLED for that
<Azelphur> gord I made a joggler clock, it didn't come out too well
<ali1234> if it's a bedside alarm clock that is
<gord> it wouldn't be
<zleap> popey, ok,
<Azelphur> gord: I came to the conclusion that android, with it's widgets and such, was probably best for the job, but I never did it
<gord> i don't need more annoying flashing displays
<ali1234> well that's the point
<gordonjcp> gord: those Parrot digital picture frames?
<ali1234> OLED isn;t annoying - no backlight
<popey> gord: chumby
<popey> steal Ng's
<ali1234> so it doesn't light up the whole room even when displaying black
<gordonjcp> gord: ARM7, 320x240 display
<ali1234> check out for example, the C7 clock screen
<gord> gordonjcp, you can run your own code on them?
<gordonjcp> yup
<gordonjcp> they just run Linux, there's a magic keypress to bring them up into uboot and run your own stuff
<gord> rhrmm
<zleap> hmm, it looks like it has 10.04.3 :)
<ali1234> ah here we go http://imageshack.us/f/176/scr000055.jpg/
<ali1234> the C7 displays that permanently when locked
<ali1234> and because it is OLED it uses virtually no power and doesn't keep you awake
<gord> OLED is really only a good choice if you want to display very little, in which case, there are off the shelf devices already
<ali1234> why?
<ali1234> what do you mean by "very little"
<gord> not what i have in mind :)
<ali1234> OLEDs are much nicer than LCDs for mobiles
<ali1234> can't think of a reason not to get one except maybe cost
<gord> i'm not using a mobile
<gord> i'm not talking about a mobile at all
<zleap> brb switching to xchat the proper one
<ali1234> so what is wrong with OLED? just can't get a big enough one?
<gord> it offers no use for me
<gord> for this little project
<ali1234> ok let me put it another way, why would you choose LCD over OLED for this project?
<zleap_> hello
<ali1234> btw, you should stay away from digital picture frames for this stuff, they use ASICs
<ali1234> the cheap ones do anyway
<gord> because LCD is cheeper and OLED gives me no benefits
<zleap_> hi
<zleap_> back
<zleap_> hi Pernig
<Pernig> hey
<zleap_> hows it going
<Pernig> good thanks :)
<Pernig> you?
<zleap_> note to self,  xchat shows up in super W
<zleap_> i am good
<Pernig> super W?
<zleap_> onubuntu
<zleap_> super being the windows key,
<Pernig> ah
<zleap> does all sorts of wizzy things in ubuntu / unity / compiz
<gordonjcp> zleap: great if you have one...
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i take it you don't have a windows key
<Pernig> i am using KDE now
<zleap_> ah
<zleap_> does kde support compiz ?
<Pernig> sort of
<Pernig> it has its own effects
<zleap_> ah
<Pernig> i think you just choose between opengl and xrandr
<zleap_> cool
<zleap_> not seen kde for a while
<zleap> ok in a few mins my netbook should be running 11.10 :)
<Pernig> nice
<zleap> yep
<Pernig> are you going to be using Unity on it?
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> as unity is on my desktop
<zleap> it just brings both in to running the same version of ubuntu
<zleap> hopefully open arena will also work with my game pad,
<Pernig> sounds good
<ali1234> gotcha sucker
<ali1234> it thinks the video is 0x7fffffff frames long
<ali1234> ie -1
<popey> hah, nice one ali1234
<popey> ali1234: its gstreamer that makes the video in kazam, wonder if it's a gstreamer bug
<popey> not stopping gracefully or something
<ali1234> dunno. does libmlt use gstreamer?
<bigcalm> If an email address is red in Thunderbird, what does it mean?
<popey> pass
<bigcalm> (while composing an email)
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<popey> that wasnt to you âº
<mgdm> I think it means it's not in the address book
<bigcalm> Oh fudge
<popey> +1 mgdm
<popey> just tested it, and yes, thats it
<bigcalm> Humm, the addresses are in my address book
<bigcalm> Gmail IMAP isn't tip top then
<ali1234> popey: you remember that custom codec deb you have for screencasting? could that be the cause of this?
<ali1234> because i think i have that installed on this machine
<popey> I'll check in a bit
<ali1234> twitter has emailed me a bunch of tweets from people i never heard of :/
<ali1234> yes, i'm on twitter. no, i never post anything except youtube videos :P
<ali1234> brobostigon: if that's you that just followed me, the captain kirk avatar is apt given earlier discussion of commas :)
<bigcalm> Anybody want to recommend a drawing app for Android tablets?
<brobostigon> ali1234: :)
<diplo> gn all
<bigcalm> Night diplo
 * mgdm upgrades to Oneiric
<bigcalm> Working on the bleeding edge eh?
<mgdm> oh yes ;-)
<bigcalm> Oh my, this means _nothing_ to me :(
<bigcalm> SQLSTATE[HY000]: General error: 102 General SQL Server error: Check messages from the SQL Server [102] (severity 15) [EXEC sp_primary_keys_rowset @table_name = DRV Labels]. Failing Query: "EXEC sp_primary_keys_rowset @table_name = DRV Labels"
<mgdm> Ooooh, Vienna
<bigcalm> Haha
 * bigcalm hunts down some Ultra Vox
 * mgdm is too
<bigcalm> That is just wrong!
<bigcalm> Whomever created this SQL Server database did so with spaces in the field names
<bigcalm> doctrine:build-schema (create .yml structure from existing database) is handy, but I don't think I'll be using it in production
<bigcalm> I have _never_ seen nano take 100% CPU
<bigcalm> What have I done?!
<directhex> tried to open a very large file?
<bigcalm> Tried to paste a yml text file into it
<bigcalm> The finished file was 48K
<bigcalm> Most confusing
<AlanBell> ali1234: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/615 datasheet
<AlanBell> oh :( without the bits you wanted
<AlanBell> There are a number of peripherals which are intended to be controlled by the GPU. These are
<AlanBell> omitted from this datasheet. Accessing these peripherals from the ARM is not recommended.
<AlanBell> that is bad right?
<ali1234> dunno. need to read it
<ali1234> looks pretty good to me
<ali1234> it covers all that stuff about the MMU and the basic peripherals
<AlanBell> it looks like something I would have read from cover to cover when I was about 12
<ali1234> erm.. yeah
<ali1234> that's exactly why it is needed
<AlanBell> not sure I have the dedication for it now :)
<ali1234> it's only 205 pages
<ali1234> the atmega8 datasheet is 550 pages and that's an 8 bit MCU with less peripherals
<gordonjcp> :-)
<gordonjcp> the STM32F100 is only about 300 pages
<ali1234> the omap3430 one is about ... 3430 pages by an odd coincidence
<ali1234> that's a comparable chip, that datasheet also doesn't cover the GPU
<AlanBell> does size matter?
<ali1234> well it gives an indication of the completeness
<ali1234> i'm amazed we got anything to be honest
<ali1234> it looks like this has everything i need... that is uart, i2c and spi stuff. and gpio muxing
<ali1234> here we go. max spi clock = Fclk/4
<ali1234> that's pretty damn fast
<ali1234> looks like i2c max clock is Fclk/2 which is insane
<mgdm> what you got in mind, out of nosiness?
<bigcalm> I was about to argue with a friend on Facebook, but then I realised that I would be "arguing on the internet". Stopped myself just in time
 * dwatkins gives bigcalm 1000 internet points
<bigcalm> \o/
 * bigcalm sleeps now
<ali1234> mgdm: nothing much really. it's just that these interfaces are very useful and flexible
<ali1234> for example, you could control a bunch of openservos off the i2c
<ali1234> and a display panel on spi
<ali1234> or touch screens etc
<ali1234> you could attach all that stuff on USB but USB is pretty horrible when the devices are native i2c or spi
<ali1234> makes everything slow due to buffer bloat etc
<ali1234> now technically you don't need the datasheet for that cos there are drivers
<ali1234> but if you only have a driver and it doesn't work... well then the first thing you have to do is reverse engineer the driver
<mgdm> yeah
<ali1234> i see the table of alternate gpio functions here so we can use jtag on it
<mgdm> handy
<ali1234> including the gpio
<ali1234> er, gpu
<ali1234> i've a plan to reverse engineer the instruction set
<ali1234> there's a binary of the gpu OS on the internet... it's compiled with debug symbols
<mgdm> oh aye
<ali1234> it should be simple to copy and paste functions around until you have the minimal "hello world on uart" code
<ali1234> and from that, given that the datasheet contains things like memory mappings it should be possible to work out the addresses that code is writing to
<ali1234> and then you've also got the write memory opcode :)
<ali1234> and so on
<ali1234> then you can use jtag to figure out the rest
<ali1234> this datasheet confirms that the "GPU" is in fact a real CPU core as well
<ali1234> if you read between the lines anyway
<mgdm> interesting
<ali1234> the memory mapping of the "VC CPU BUS" smells an awful lot like MIPS to me
<ali1234> the uart has a flexible baudrate controller.. that means it can do midi without complex hardware
<mgdm> ooh, shiny
<ali1234> wait
<ali1234> how does it produce audio?
<ali1234> oh there's a jack, ok
<ali1234> ok so here's an example of something that you can build only with the datasheet
<ali1234> you could probably make a quite nifty midi sampler with a touchscreen
<ali1234> ok, you could have done it with a usb midi adapter, but those suck *and* they cost more than the pi
<ali1234> and if you want it cheap, you don't need the touchscreen... just run a lot of buttons off shift registers on spi
<ali1234> and a cheap character lcd
<AlanBell> ali1234: I think at one point eben was thinking of making a VGA port off the audio circuits
<ali1234> er... no
<AlanBell> or some unconventional part of it
<ali1234> there is an interface for displays
<ali1234> undocumented though
<ali1234> but it's for large panels
<ali1234> it's similar to the LVDS interface for laptop displays
<ali1234> (in that it is for interfacing directly with the panel rather than the connectors you get on full displays)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-07
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Kubuntu Status - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4531
<mgdm> well, this is exciting
<mgdm> right, so Unity has improved since i last played with it
<mgdm> I might leave it if I can convince the display applet to pick up both monitors :)
<mgdm> I had to use xrandr on the commandl ine to make it work
<popey> mgdm: what video card?
<mgdm> popey: a Radeon of some description, one sec
<mgdm>  ATI Technologies Inc Mobility Radeon HD 3400 Series (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
<mgdm> one of those
<popey> i know nothing about ATI cards
<popey> managed to avoid them for years
<directhex> i have a radeon with fglrx
<mgdm> it's fine, I've had to use xrandr to control it since Karmic, as previously the display applet locked X (and the bugs never really got answered)
<directhex> they're much better value than geforce for windows use, and aren't crap anymore for linux, broadly speaking
<mgdm> I'm not entirely sure what driver I@m using
<directhex> i mean, they're less functional than geforces, but not utterly crippled like they once were
<mgdm> I suspect I'm going to be preoccupied with making my magic trackpad work like it does in Lion
<mgdm> which appears to be the job of a pile of XML, oooh fun
<mgdm> I'm almost certain alt-tab isn't behaving as I recall, though
<mgdm> unless I'm going mildly insane
<mgdm> did something change?
<directhex> you're the second person i've heard mention that
<Azelphur> *stab* stupid error messages http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/February/2012-02-07-011806_565x140_scrot.png
<popey> haha, thats fun
<Azelphur> :)
<danfish> good morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Might fancy claiming your Windows Tax? http://no.more.racketware.info/news/hardware-software-bundling-crumbles-france
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: hmm, all in french
<popey> http://non.aux.racketiciels.info/guide/index
<popey> oooh, Feb 20 for raspberry pi
<danfish> i expect the first batch will sell out rather quickly
<popey> yeah
<smittix> Morning
<czajkowski> Aloha
<smittix> Hi czajkowski how are you?
<czajkowski> great :)
<popey> \o/
<czajkowski> :D
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> ooooh raspberry pi..... Want' one of those for my house sensor net display \o/
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> o/
<danfish> daubers: broadcom have released some technical info re the peripherals on the board http://dmkenr5gtnd8f.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/BCM2835-ARM-Peripherals.pdf
<daubers> danfish: I saw :) Tempting to use one for a small robotics project I have now
<danfish> resurecting your idea of a robot army to enslave mankind?
<daubers> danfish: Of course :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam: Call For Events! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/07/ubuntu-global-jam-call-for-events-2/
<daubers> Can anyone recommend a decent postgres book?
<Daviey> no
<popey> hah
<daubers> Daviey: Ta :p
 * popey hugs Daviey 
<daubers> Maybe I should remove the qualifier "decent" from that statement?
<DJones> hmmh, just been asked to go and visit Finland
<daubers> DJones: The country where you want to be, pony trekking or camping? or just watching TV?
<DJones> daubers: A friend moved there last year, looking at the photo's he puts on facebook, it looks a lovely place, although a bit deep in snow now
 * dwatkins tries to find Three's definition of "unlimited"
<DJones> dwatkins: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8792095/Three-gives-all-mobile-customers-unlimited-data.html
<dwatkins> thanks DJones :)
<dwatkins> 13 quid for unlimited data on a SIM-only deal
<DJones> Reading that, it sounds like "unlimited" does mean no limit at all
<dwatkins> Yeah, I'm quite surprised, as there's normally a fair usage policy.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool, that is very coincidental considering what O2 have done to me recently: https://plus.google.com/u/0/104060033182234025482/posts/iNdj2jCQDCV
<dwatkins> We use O2 at work also. My colleague discovered his bill one month was huge as he'd been streaming radio stations, and our data plan is immensely expensive.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will take them for whatever I can until June then dump them. They didn't like my post and tweets so have just asked to look into my situation ;-)
<dwatkins> they contacted you because of your tweets to say they will look into it, TheOpenSourcerer?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah
<oimon> how can this be avoided? negoitiate contracts via email?
<DJones> dwatkins: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/broadband/363712/3-breaks-ranks-with-unlimited-mobile-data Has a line "Three told us that the new offer did not include a Fair Usage Policy
<dwatkins> DJones: outstanding :D
<oimon> i am due to finish contract in april and would like to go sim only but retain my 3GB allowance with T-mob
<dwatkins> oimon: I've never managed to get to talk about contracts via e-mail, it's always over the phone
<oimon> i guess i could record the calls too
<dwatkins> yeah, although you might legally have to warn them of this at the start
<DJones> That Three offer does seem tempting
<dwatkins> "Hello, I'd like to buy a phone contract, please note this call may be recorded...." :D
<dwatkins> I wonder if Three might reduce your allowed bandwidth if you use a lot of data, though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I asked O2 to go and listen to their call recording as I remember clearly asking the woman about my data allowance. They couldn't find it...
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, they often just say they might record the calls etc.
<TheOpenSourcerer> W*&^%$Â£^&*
<dwatkins> or can't be bothered to sift through them all
<dwatkins> quite
<popey> or they dont keep them
<oimon> dwatkins: no, as long as one person knows its being recorded, it's OK
<dwatkins> oimon: oh ok, so I could call you and record the conversation without telling you, so long as I was aware?
<oimon> dwatkins: yes, in the UK it is allowed
<oimon> although i used to tell virgin to get a reaction. they often hung up
<dwatkins> haha
<dwatkins> I sometimes check the recordings from our callcentre for accuracy etc. in case someone needs more training or something
<aquarius> astounded that notification is not required. http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/consumer/advice/faqs/prvfaq3.htm is the relevant summary here.
<bigcalm> You listen for a laugh?
<dwatkins> bigcalm: it is sometimes amusing
<bigcalm> :)
<DJones> We record all phone calls at work in case anybody disputes what has been said
<oimon> aquarius: i think it's a good law :) then you can assume all calls are recorded
<aquarius> I'm glad you think it's a good law, Big Brother ;-)
<dwatkins> I imagine Echelon has the potential to record everything we say on the phone.
<oimon> who reported that guy's marilyn monroe twitter message to the US ?
<oimon> aquarius: only if boig brother is one of the people on the call :)
<oimon> a third party is not allowed to record (unless they are the govt it seems)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<aquarius> yeah, the Man is allowed. :)
<dwatkins> I assume they would need a court order/warrant to do so, i.e. probable cause.
<oimon> dwatkins: naaah
<dwatkins> oh dear, that's scary
<oimon> it wouldn't be hard to scan every single txt message for trigger words since most txts are sent/received through mobile provider message centres
<aquarius> they need a warrant
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2012-February/013242.html
<dwatkins> oimon: I assume they already do that
 * dwatkins is reminded of Mark Thomas taking a balloon ride over Menworth Hill and calling his mum to talk about sensitive topics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwHRrb5G-QI
<aquarius> and scanning texts for trigger words is "access to the content of a communication", which is warrant-required too... although I don't know whether they've invoked the whole "it's only a computer reading it, not a person"...
<popey> gord: do you use your fingerprint reader?
<oimon> i have a colleague who occasionally sends very unreasonable emails to me. i suspect he is sending them while drunk - any advice? ignore? complain? reply?
<popey> define 'unreasonable'
<dwatkins> oimon: ask if they really meant it the next day by walking up and talking to them quietly?
<oimon> well, they often claim I never said something that i told them about, or say rather rudely that i should have done something quicker (although i turned around a 1hr job within a day), and other things that I can easily support with evidence, suggesting he/she is either forgetful or under the influence
<gord> popey, nah, in windows i do, not linux. you can hook it up and it will log you in, but not unlock your keyring which makes the whole thing kinda pointless
<popey> bummer
<gord> might be good for lock screens though i guess?
<gord> give will cooke a poke, he got his working
<oimon> entering into an argument about these things could be a bit petty. i haven't replied to support my case (yet). maybe it's best to swallow my pride and leave it.
<oimon> would applecare fix a crack in a screen?
<oimon> or is that not covered.
<AlanBell> go ask an apple store probably
<oimon> that's the problem. have to travel all the way into central london :-\
<popey> phone them up?
<gord> have heard some g ood things about applecare going the extra mile
<gord> course saying that i'm sure others have heard bad things ;)
<brobostigon> i had some ubuntu swag delivered this morning, but was in the bath, and have to sign for it, so i need to visit the main post office before my drum lesson.
<popey> yeah, i had good experience with applecare
<oimon> thats what i was hoping to hear. it's my sisters machine,  but her husband is a good negotiator, so hopefully it will work out. it's only 3 months old and doesn't know how the crack appeared
<oimon> i'll suggest he goes down there
<oimon> brobostigon: what did you buy? tshirt?
<davmor2> morning all
<brobostigon> oimon: keyring, and lanyard,
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, all in the same place :P
<oimon> brobostigon: item Â£1 , p&P Â£5?
<dwatkins> that was a very cold meeting
<czajkowski> davmor2: BOOOOOOO
<brobostigon> oimon: it came to about Â£7 in total.
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, all in the same place :P
<oimon> good guess then!
<brobostigon> oimon: both for me, i broke my key chain over the weekend. and wanted something different.
 * directhex moos. moo
<mgdm> moo
<popey> moo
<daubers> moo
<oimon> i wonder how the news about kubuntu's paid developer will affect kubuntu
<daubers> also! New package from hong kong arrived today \o/ https://twitter.com/#!/daubers/status/166839703012777984/photo/1
<oimon> doesn't seem to affect xubuntu which is a decent community distro
<dwatkins> brobostigon: http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/02/press-to-open-keyring-just-blew-my-mind-and-saved-my-fingernails/
<occupy64k> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/02/canonical-ending-support-for-kubuntu-reassigning-lead-developer-1.ars
<oimon> occupy64k: yes, that news
<brobostigon> dwatkins: interesting idea.
<mgdm> If, in Unity, I have a terminal open and I want another - how do I do that?
<oimon> mgdm: middle click
<bigcalm> shift+ctrl+t
<mgdm> oimon: nonobvious, but fair enough
<mgdm> bigcalm: not what I wanted
<bigcalm> Ok
<oimon> my biggest annoyance with unity is that it doesn't have the docky behaviour that i can then right click on the terminal icon in the launcher and get a list of open windows (handy with 50 open)
<dwatkins> That's surprising, I would have thought that should be exactly what it should do (list windows)
<gord> write a patch to your favourite terminal to put its windows in its quicklist
<oimon> gord: reckon that's an easy job?
<gord> depends on the software
<mgdm> if you do it for terminator I'll buy you a pint :P
<oimon> it's a showstopper for me using unity, since i don't get on with terminator or tabs (or screen)
<gord> if it has easy access to its entire window list for example
<oimon> gord: docky knows how to do it though
<oimon> i've spoken to a few people who tried to change their way of working when switching to gnome 3 and have the same problem
<gord> docky does, because it does application matching, like unity does (they actually use a library we wrote) - however you are quickly straying out of easy
<mgdm> I think each terminator window will be a separate process, though maybe I'm wrong
<oimon> in the meantime i could make docky my default dock and launcher only appear on super press
<oimon> thereby reducing unity launcher to a glorified gnome-do
<gord> by using ubuntu you are not contractually obligated to use the stock system ;) go ahead
<brobostigon> ubuntu precise and debian sid, contain the same gnome-shell version.
<mgdm> I forgot about that Broadway thing
<mgdm> that's quite insane
<brobostigon> accept for in debian, it has packages for more platforms,
<mgdm> hmm
<mgdm> so closing Pidgin's contact list kills the app
<mgdm> that's new
<oimon> brobostigon: using gnome shell, are your notifications at the bottom?
<brobostigon> oimon: yes, generally.
<oimon> know how to move them? i want a dock there
<brobostigon> oimon: no idea, i have seen no need to find out.
<popey> oimon: look on extensions.gnome.org
<oimon> popey: no joy
<BigRedS> oimon: there's talk of a forthcoming version having their location be configurable
<oimon> it doesn't seem that common . maybe digging around with the conftool might work
<oimon> BigRedS: ah, cool
<BigRedS> but, in a gnomey sort of way, I think they're just pondering letting you put them also in one other place, and it's a bottom corner IIRC
<BigRedS> I'm getting round it (badly) by generally having things put their tabs at the bottom, so teh notifications probably don't cover up anything I'm looking at
<brobostigon> all those notification cover here, that is alittle annoying, is the bottom of byobu.
<oimon> all these new desktops are one big workaround for me
<BigRedS> brobostigon: yeah, it's exactly that which I wanted to fix - mid-command getting jabber popups isn't great
<BigRedS> oimon: I'm still trying to find the problem that they solve. Though Gnome3 does seem to be pretty-nice-with-some-silly-ideas rather than all bad
<BigRedS> unity seemed even better until I tried to do any work in it :(
<brobostigon> BigRedS: agreed, true, only things i have now that show popups, is NM, and tomboy, so dont get anything very often.
<oimon> i have irc, IM and email too
<brobostigon> my IM is in bitlbee, so that part of notifications show in irssi, and irssi, well, irc, and for my email. i use gmail's web interface.
<oimon> what happens when i type brobostigon  while yo are in another desktop/window?
<brobostigon> other than mobile, which is with k9.
<brobostigon> oimon: i get nothing. untill i see the highlight inside irssi.
<oimon> my other problem is what happens if someone pings me overnight? after the OSD appears in ubuntu, i don't see it again
<BigRedS> yeah, I think that's completely retarded
<oimon> xchat seems to only scroll back to 8.56pm yesreday
<BigRedS> both Unity and Gnome3 seem to feel that if you're not looking at the monitor when something happened you don't really care whether it happened or not
<oimon> yeah
<oimon> we can't be the only ones with these issues
<brobostigon> i agree, that is an issue.
<BigRedS> No - they're why I bought a Gnome 3 t-shirt at fosdem, to annoy everyone else at work :)
<brobostigon> but the notifications do stay there, untill you are ready to deal with them, you dont just get it, and it goes away.
<gord> oimon, your messaging indicator will glow
<gord> thats kinda the point
<oimon> not sure i have one of those gord
<gord> oimon, envelope in the top right
<oimon> nope
<oimon> im on 10.04
<gord> oh geez, upgrade
<brobostigon> it is a speech bubble here.
<oimon> i'm waiting for another LTS :D
<gord> i can't remember that far back
<brobostigon> gnome-shell 3.2.2.1
<gord> are things even purple in 10.04?
<oimon> https://code.launchpad.net/recent-notifications
<oimon> gord: i don't know. i've been running this setup for 2 yrs. the only thing still purple is pidgin. i have about 50 ppas though
<gord> oimon, doesn't that ruin the security and stability an lts provides?
<BigRedS> Ah, so unity does have that indicator?
<oimon> gnome2+docky has served me well.
<brobostigon> lunchtime, :)
<BigRedS> If I can beat my brain into working with unity's focus model I might end up switching my ubuntu pc back
<oimon> startup disk creator asks for my password 3 times during the usb creation process. it's like using vista :D
<BigRedS> It feels really like it's designed to be used with only a single workspace and that's not how I think
<davmor2> oimon: increase the length of the scroll back or goto ~/.xchat and open the channel in logs and find it there
<oimon> davmor2: thanks. i'll try. it's a workaround rather than solution though ..
<gord> the real problem is that xchat doesn't have infinite scrollback like it should
<davmor2> oimon: the other solution is to write a script that just captures pings if there isn't one already check the xchat site for a script
<davmor2> oimon: or maybe a plugin too
<oimon> but gord, searching back 24 hours in a busy room looking for red text? surely the real problem is that past notifications should be easily accessible, especially those accumulated  screen saver is active
<popey> get a better irc client
<popey> irssi with a separate hilight window ftw
<dwatkins> or add a script to send hilights to an external machine
<gord> oimon, /lastlog oimon
<oimon> :D yay, thanks
 * BigRedS just abandoned his Xchat experiment
<dwatkins> tail the text file this generates, perhaps? http://thorstenl.blogspot.com/2007/01/thls-irssi-notification-script.html
<oimon> BigRedS: http://www.coredumb.net/index.php?n=Scripts.XchatHighlightsCollector found this
<BigRedS> oimon: yeah, there's a few reasons for it; generally I'm sshd into my server anyway, so screening's no issue, and I got annoyed with not being in the right channels on every machine
<BigRedS> I do need to spend a bit of time configuring irssi though
<oimon> popey: is oggcamp 12 happening? (and does it have a date?)
<gord> popey, what was that screen recording application? sparkle or something?
<popey> kazam
<popey> oimon: dunno, no
<gord> ah, i knew it was something like that
<gord> ta
<popey> np
<oimon> ok, cheers
<oimon> i was enticed by the topc
<BigRedS> oimon: it's oggcamp 100!
<gord> colours went weird :(
<oimon> had a brainblock. the word gauge looks weird :-\
<oimon> isn't it pronounced gayj ?
<BigRedS> yeah
<oimon> looks wrong
<BigRedS> you really can't expect to derive pronounciation of words from their spellings
<BigRedS> just be pleased when you can :)
<gord> you don't pronounce it gau-gee?
<dwatkins> English is jam-packed full of pronounciation inconsistencies.
<BigRedS> it packed full of all sorts of inconsistencies
<diplo> teaching my five year old some at the mo, it's proving difficult to explain why some things are pronounced the way they are :)
<BigRedS> I learnt most of my pronounciation by reading
<dwatkins> "Leicester" and "Chiswick" are interesting examples.
<BigRedS> that wasn't the best way, I think
<dwatkins> I know someone who insists on mispronouncing certain words such as 'decal', and gets 'slash' and 'dash' the wrong way around. It's difficult to have a technical conversation like that.
<oimon> how do you pronounce decal? i always pronounce it "transfer"
<BigRedS> how do you get slash and dash the wrong way round?
<BigRedS> oimon: I use 'sticker'
<dwatkins> oimon: heh
<dwatkins> http://www.etsy.com/listing/67422766/app-circles-crop-circles-mac-decal
<oimon> is it an americanism?
<BigRedS> I doubt it
<dwatkins> BigRedS: I don't know, but she just says it doesn't matter, since I know she gets them the wrong way around
<mgdm> it's what Airfix call the stickers
<BigRedS> well, depends on your definition of 'americanism', since most americanisms are just elizabethan English
 * BigRedS curses bash and it's whitespace rules
<oimon> mgdm: i still build airfix, but scall them transfers still
<oimon> as i did as a boy
<oimon> http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/books/bro-code/7143441.html
<oimon> what to give your single mate on valentines day
<popey> my son pronounces "Remote control" as "camote controle" which is quite sweet
<BigRedS> my brother called it "the moke" for ages, which is probably just a poor reflection on the eloquence of the rest of us
<popey> we call them all generically 'frank'
<popey> "can you pass frank?"
<popey> as in Frank Zappa
<mgdm> heh
<BigRedS> haha
<oimon> i feel sad when my son learns how to say words properly. he used to call button moon "foo". he still calls playgroup "playloop" which is sweet. he can say dalmatian and golden retriever but can't say banana properly.
<oimon> laptop and phone were early words in his vocab
<Josssse> Hello guys. I think i've noticed that UbuntuOne works much better in ubuntu 11 than in ubuntu 10. Is there any way I can force the installation of ubuntuOne for 11 in my ubuntu 10 system??
<jpds> Josssse: That sounds like it'll cause more problems, than solutions.
<BigRedS> Josssse: there is neither a ubuntu 11 or a ubunti 10; there's 10.04, 10.10, 11.04 and 11.10 (it's <year><dot><month> of release). But, generally, you'll introduce more problems than you'll solve
<BigRedS> why not upgrade teh system?
<BigRedS> the whole system, rather
<oimon> i also get a lot of problems on my 10.04 with u1
<Josssse> BigRedS, I did but didn't like the new WM... so went back to LTS.
<zleap> hi
<BigRedS> Josssse: ahhh
<Josssse> jpds, nothing is being syncronized... the time i used 11.04( BigRedS ) it worked very nicely.
<jpds> Josssse: You know you can still use classic GNOME on 11.04 ?
<BigRedS> Josssse: what's better about the 11.x one? It might be something that' sjust not default in 10.x
<Josssse> jpds, I did not know that, Can I do it mantaining the actual look of my screen?
<oimon> my stuff never syncs unless i kill the client and restart it manually in LTS
<jpds> Josssse: Probably.
<Josssse> BigRedS, I don't know, Even the cofig apps is much better.
<Josssse> jpds, So I just install 11.04 and apt-get gnome?
<jpds> Josssse: gnome-panel, I believe.
<Josssse> Ok awesome. jpds. I also remarked that 11.04 is much slower, could that be solved by using gnome??
<jpds> Josssse: Only one way to find out.
<Josssse> hehe, you're right.
<Josssse> Who likes the new WM anyway? what's its name?
<BigRedS> Unity?
<BigRedS> Several people do
<jpds> I do.
<d3ngar> Hi there
<BigRedS> I've a few annoyances with it, but no more than I had with old Gnome or have with new gnome. Just different ones
<davmor2> Josssse: o/
<d3ngar> My contact list in Empathy disappeared - it's not showing even though I'm connected
<d3ngar> Any ideas?
<BigRedS> d3ngar: just to check - you've not hit a letter and inadvertently started a search of your contacts, causing it to hide all those not matching?
<BigRedS> I've done that maaany times
<Josssse> I don't get it. I have no annoyances with gnome. I couldn't stand the unity from the start... even had pretty slow alt+F2...
<d3ngar> BigRedS: Sorry, I didn't
<BigRedS> aw, dammit
<BigRedS> that would've been nice and easy
<d3ngar> I actually uninstalled, installed, installed from PPA, removed the PPA and installed the default
<BigRedS> I've no idea then, that's normally why mine disappear
<d3ngar> It's frustrating
<Josssse> Well. I have to go teach. Thanks for the chat guys.
<jpds> Josssse: Have you tried 11.10?
<Josssse> jpds, I don't think so, why?
<oimon> or even XFCE in ubuntu 11.10, which is done quite nicely and similar to gnome2
<jpds> Josssse: Because it'll have improvements on Unity.
<jpds> s/'ll have/has/
<Josssse> jpds, Ill check it out and let you guys know what I think.
<Josssse> Thanks and bye!!
<zleap> how do I log out of ubuntu
<zleap> i normally click on my name in the top corner but its gone
<gordonjcp> zleap: click on the symbol in the top right
<DJones> zleap: Logout or shutdown?
<zleap> it isn;t there
<zleap> alli have in the top right is the date and time
<DJones> To shutdown, you can do "sudo shutdown -h now" in a terminal
<zleap> ok
<zleap> just wondered what happened to that symbol though
<zleap> I will keep an eye on this see if I can figure out when it goes and what may cause it
<CaMason> opinion guys... 48u freestanding cabinet with patch panels + cables, second hand, Â£250
<gordonjcp> CaMason: do you have a use for it?
<CaMason> not hugely.. we're moving into an office with 48 drops, but only 4 people with 1 server + switch. Even if I scale up to 12 people, I can see us uing even half of it
<CaMason> I have a 6u wall cabinet at the moment
<mgdm> CaMason: you buying or selling?
<CaMason> buying - it was offered to me by the outgoing tenants
<CaMason> it would need patching up as the cables currently drop into another room
<gordonjcp> CaMason: wait until Friday afternoon then offer them Â£150 cash
<CaMason> I was thinking Â£150 or not to bother
<mgdm> Oi, X, stop turning my primary monitor off
 * bigcalm returns
<bigcalm> Anybody miss me?
 * popey runs up to bigcalm and hugs him
<popey> you're BACK!
<bigcalm> \o/
<popey> BARK BARK BARK BARK bigcalm BARK BARK BARK
<bigcalm> I am!
<bigcalm> o.O
<Dave2> !
<bigcalm> Down, boy
<davmor2> bigcalm: you've got a nerve showing up here after all that time away
<gord> think someone needs to get spayed...
<davmor2> bigcalm: p.s. when did you go?
<bigcalm> Hayley had forgotten her engagement ring so I intended to take it to her at lunch. Got there and forgot to pick up the ring :D
<bigcalm> <- clutz
<popey> ^ yes
<bigcalm> :P
<dwatkins> I'm glad I'm not the only one who does things like that, bigcalm ;)
<bigcalm> Ah well. We enjoyed a coffee together and I had a toasted sausage and caramelised onion sandwich at the M&S cafe
<davmor2> bigcalm: You Plonker
<bigcalm> Yes, Dellboy
<popey> a toasted sausage?
<popey> _and_ a caremlised onion sandwich?
<popey> you could totally have put those together
<bigcalm> Both within the same one
 * popey is being silly
<dwatkins> A friend of mine worked in a lab doing chemistry-related stuff, entry was controlled by cards and everyone was vetted; she left her engagement ring on her desk to cross the road to the shop as that area of town isn't the best, and it had gone when she returned - the cleaner never returned to work :-/
<bigcalm> popey: that's what I said to them
<dwatkins> tl;dr - Detroit sucks
<bigcalm> :(
<dwatkins> worse, it was an heirloom
<dwatkins> now there's a word with confusing pronounciation :)
<oimon> dwatkins: somebody was nicking the sysadmin munchies supply  (and Â£20 from my drawer) so we set up motion detection and caught the cleaner red-handed
<oimon> 5am ...camera wakes up and cleaner is having a good old chow down
<dwatkins> oimon: we used motion detection when I was at SGI to discover that the security guard was the one breaking the heads off the little penguins we each had on our desks
<oimon> dwatkins: the swine
<bigcalm> :O
<dwatkins> IRIX SecurityLite and an O2 with a camera
<dwatkins> oimon: indeed, those poor little penguins :(
<oimon> were they tux penguins?
<dwatkins> yeah, made of stresstoy foam
<oimon> yeah, i have one here
<dwatkins> they gave them out when SGI started supporting Linux on the Altix range
<oimon> mine has a stress fracture to the neck but is still ok
<dwatkins> sure you didn't have a twisted security guard, oimon? ;)
<mgdm> oimon: more to the point, what did you do with this information?
<oimon> mgdm: gave the evidence to HR and we were told the guy had been taken off the cleaning staff.
<mgdm> fairy nuff
<oimon> however i locked my drawer after that
<dwatkins> the security guard in question in the SGI office was never seen again, I imagine he was reassigned or laid off
<oimon> yeah, except he just got moved to another company instead
<gord> hrm, the two kde applications i use are suddenly broken on a day like today. i didn't realise our one paid kubuntu maintainer held back the tide like that
<dwatkins> what's special about today?
<BigRedS> kubuntu stops being canonical sponsored
<dwatkins> oh my
<DJones> gord: I didn't think kubuntu had a paid employee anymore
<davmor2> DJones: Riddell is
<gord> davmor2, not anymore
<DJones> davmor2: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-February/005782.html
<gord> DJones, thats what i am saying
<davmor2> gord: DJones: yeah but that is post 12.04 right unless I am reading it wrong
<mgdm> Awww, no
<gord> davmor2, didn't read the actual post tbh
<mgdm> I can't use my second monitor any more
<gord> mgdm, why not?
<mgdm> X switches it off and won't bring it back
<mgdm> until I turn the machine off and on again
<gord> weird... Xorg.log not helpful?
<mgdm> having a look
<mgdm> [ 1081.104673] [drm:radeon_dp_get_link_status] *ERROR* displayport link status failed
<mgdm> there's that in dmesg, which doesn't look great
<gord> not using the ati drivers?
<mgdm> Not currently
<gord> might solve your issue
<mgdm> I'll give it a bash
<gord> either that or your cable went wonky
<mgdm> well, the cable's been fine until now, so it'd be quite a coincidence
<mgdm> next question: how do I reorder icons in the launcher? Dragging them moves everything
<gord> when it rains it pours like they say ;)
<gord> pull the icon out
<mgdm> that just seemst o launch the app
<mgdm> oh feck, one of them was eclipse
<davmor2> mgdm: grab move to the right first then move up and down and  let go when you're happy
<mgdm> oh, it's a bit tricky, but it works
<davmor2> gord: why is the launcher not appearing anymore when I move to the left
<gord> davmor2, you aren't pushing hard enough
<gord> you have to push against the edge now
<gord> there is also a bug with that if you have a strange mouse rate, iirc fix is coming
<davmor2> gord: this is the trackpad on my wonderful laptop that you love so much
<mgdm> Oh, unity 2d's alt-tab behaviour makes sense
<Dave2> Unity 2D's window manager is metacity
<mgdm> that explains why it looked familiar
<davmor2> gord: this was the clue for me the first line of Riddell's post ;) "Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04."
<BigRedS> is there a way to have unity's alt-tab behave like gnome <3's?
<mgdm> you really like gnome, apparently
<BigRedS> haha, I prefer gnome 3 to unity by a fairly small margin, but I think I prefer both to gnome2 but for the daft alt-tab behaviour
<BigRedS> it's been a while since I used gnome2 now, so I'm assuming my view of it is rose-tinted. I know most software annoys me
<gord> just enable a different alt tab switcher plugin
<mgdm> anyone know why I have to hold the mouse down when I open menus on the taskbar?
<mgdm> clicking makes them appear and then disappear, old-classic-Mac-style
<mgdm> Oh, weird, that's only on the laptop's internal screen
<popey> sounds buggy
<mgdm> rather
<bigcalm> Anybody here use the skype webbrowser plugin to make phone numbers clickable?
<directhex> clickclickclick
<oimon> is it possible to make facebook cover photo private to friends only?
<oimon> not the profile pic but the large cover pic
<popey> bigcalm: no, i remove it whenever i see it installed
<popey> hates it
<bigcalm> popey: as do I
<bigcalm> A client wants all customer entered numbers to be skype clickable links. I was wondering if I could just add a 'call via skype' option rather than having to get the plugin working
<bigcalm> If it were a simple href I could setup, that would be idea
<BigRedS> there's a standard for a sip-alike mailto: I thought
<BigRedS> wonder if skype can handle those
<bigcalm> I'm going to have to install the plugin on a windows machine to see what their javascript does to numbers :(
<jpds> bigcalm: 2 + 2 == 5?
<popey> bigcalm: it really messes with log files
<popey> which have long timestamps in them
<bigcalm> jpds: I wouldn't rule it out
<bigcalm> popey: laptop working again?
<AlanBell> jpds: that is only true for large values of 2
<bigcalm> </dna>
<CaMason> gordonjcp, I got the cabinet for Â£150
<mgdm> nice
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, Can I ask you a few questions about OpenERP ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can diplo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Whether I can answer them is another matter
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<diplo> What sort of businesses have you implemented it for ?
<diplo> Got a friend who called an hour ago thinking about setting up a wholesaler ( I work for a ERP company ) but it's not cheap and after seeing you mention and tweet today about it
<diplo> I thought i'd take a look
 * AlanBell hugs openerp
<diplo> Is there any large failings that you could point out ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> One is a fairly traditional IT Reseller/VAR - Other fits retail lighting systems
<diplo> I can see all the benefits on web site, it's knowing what's not so good that they won't advertise
<TheOpenSourcerer> "large failling" nope. The more we use it the more I like to to be honest.
<AlanBell> multicompany is a bit hairy, but it is a difficult topic at the best of times
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's not perfect by anymeans
<diplo> This is for an Electrical Wholesaler, so selling goods to account customers/cash sales and ordering from suppliers
<TheOpenSourcerer> But it probably the best OSS solution and is very well supported/maintained
<AlanBell> the lovely thing about it is not that it is 100% perfect, but that it is 100% fixable
<diplo> Single compnay, 2 members of stagg
<diplo> staff**
<diplo> jeesh, typos galore
<TheOpenSourcerer> Turnover? (roughly)
<diplo> Not opened yet :)
<AlanBell> with warehousing and logistics?
<diplo> Looking at opening, and asked mea bout software.
<diplo> Not the be all and end all, he's been looking at Sage as well
<diplo> He basically said I will be able to see stock on shelf and know when to order if i need to if it's a huge turning point on money
<AlanBell> sage does money well enough to keep accountants happy but it does not do stock well enough to keep non-accountants happy
<diplo> Is it hard to setup if he asked me to, not tried it at all before
<diplo> heh yeah i know AlanBell, the company i work for has recently taken a fair few sage customers that have out grown the Stock plugin
<TheOpenSourcerer> define "hard" diplo?
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you work for an erp company you will probably understand the terminology etc.
<diplo> As in, 2-3 hours install / setup or a day or two
<diplo> Just to have an empty working system
<gordonjcp> CaMason: sweet
<CaMason> :)
<diplo> Oh yeah, been in the trade ( Electrical Wholesaling ) and now the software we used at said company for 13 years +
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo - Install in about 15 minutes: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/19/how-to-install-openerp-6-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts-server-part-1
<diplo> Oooh good man! thanks.
<AlanBell> (instructions also work on precise) ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - Setup could probably be done in a couple of days. Obviously it depends... On various bit of string of unknown lengths at this stage.
<AlanBell> diplo: openERP 6.1 is out next week
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: this is relevant to my interests
<AlanBell> and it rocks
<diplo> So, if i followed the instructions I'd have a basic but empty working ERP system ?
<AlanBell> you would, but I would right now adjust the instructions and go for 6.1
<diplo> kk, great thanks guys
<diplo> Will set up a VM on my laptop tonight and show him
<AlanBell> there is a #openobject channel on freenode
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am re-writing the instructions - (Only real gotcha for a base install is you need to sudo pip werzkeug - the 10.04 package is too old).
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo latest tarball of the nightly will do you nicely: http://nightly.openerp.com/6.1/src/
<diplo> Grabbed the rc1
<diplo> on it's way down ta
<diplo> Recommend 10.04, or try and get it working on precise ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Start it up and point your browser to :8069 Ignore the bit about the web client on my post - that's integrated in 6.1 And ignore the conf files, just copy the default from the src tarball.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Personally I would stick with 10.04.
<diplo> kk, grabbing an iso now thanks
<AlanBell> depends on the timings of your project
<diplo> Depends whether they get the go ahead for funding I guess, said I'd take a quick look at it for them
<diplo> Funnily enought at 8-9am this morning i was looking at screenshots of openerp and then I get a phone call asking about it.
<diplo> about 5 hours later
<oimon> what's a sure-fire way of finding when a linux OS was installed?
<directhex> oimon, ls -ld /root is a reasonable way IME
<directhex> assuming it wasn't deployed by an image
<oimon> directhex: i found the issue ticket where the machine was installed. although i did check date of /etc/motd and root etc
<daubers> oimon: sudo tune2fs /dev/sda1 (or whicherver filesystem is the root fs)
<daubers> Filesystem created:       Tue Oct 12 16:05:24 2010
<directhex> oh, nice solution daubers
<daubers> Won't solve the image problem though :(
<kirrus> daubers: stat /etc/hostname
<kirrus> daubers: if it was an image that then had a unique hostname applied...
<daubers> kirrus: yup, that'd do too :)
<popey>  sudo head -n 1 /var/log/installer/syslog
<popey> ^^ first boot
<oimon> popey: not on RHEL but nice idea : ls -ld /root/install.log shows date of file on RH
<oimon> popey: ah, it's /root/install.log.syslog
<popey> eww RHEL
<oimon> on desktop :D
<oimon> i was in a meeting the other day and at least 3 other guys were running unity on their laptops
<popey> oimon: did they work for canonical?
<BigRedS> There's a few unity installs in the noc here
<bigcalm> noc?
<BigRedS> network operations centre
<BigRedS> where they put the people in a datacenter
<oimon> popey: no :P just a high level internal infrastructure meeting
<popey> fancy that
<popey> people tell me 'everyone' left for Mint
<ali1234> everyone has left for mint
<gord> just the loud ones
<ali1234> that's why nobody complains any more
<oimon> hmm
<oimon> ali1234: got your rasp pi SoC datasheet?
<gord> pretty sure that the last release was the most downloaded version ever
 * TheOpenSourcerer is still on 10.10 enjoying cubic desktops and wobbly windows on a low powered graphics card ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh yes, and menus.
<oimon> just installing lubuntu 11.10 on an old dell 3100C for my nephew.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I know Old Fashioned or what.
<directhex> dreading 12.04 releasing
<ali1234> the last release of mint was also the most downloaded ever
<gord> good for them :)
<directhex> i committed to 10.04 for nontechnical staff in the office, but migrating everyone onto something 12.04 based is a nasty thought. unity or shell, no option fills me with joy
<ali1234> right. it;s no surprising that ubuntu users largely choose unity, when you look at the alternatives on offer
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, 12.04 has desktop cube, wobbly windows and it'll run on low powered gpus. menus too, i'm not quite sure what you are getting at
<oimon> as soon as gord fixes terminal to work with unity like i want it to, i'll be on unity too ;) JOKE JOKE
<TheOpenSourcerer> 11.10 doesn't
 * AlanBell is looking forward to global menus being reverted
<oimon> desktop zoom + wobbly windows are  the compiz features i use the most
<gord> oimon, its something often requested, have you looked around? it wouldn't surprise me if someone did it already
<oimon> gord: alas, yes, although not for 6 mo's ..will try again
<AlanBell> oimon: which fix?
<oimon> AlanBell: if you have 10 terminal windows open, want to click right mouse on the terminal icon on the launcher to see a list of windows and their title. e.g. oimon@pc1 oimon@server2 oimon@server3
<oimon> ala docky
<AlanBell> oimon: oh yeah, I want that too
<oimon> i think its called a dynamic quicklist
<oimon> but requires adding code to terminal too it seems
<AlanBell> yeah, I seem to recall asking gord if that would be easy to code up :)
<ali1234> yeah
<TheOpenSourcerer> I quite like the list along the bottom of my screen
<ali1234> it would be easy to code up for terminal
<ali1234> and then you code it up again for firefox
<ali1234> and then you code it up again for gedit
<ali1234> and then you code it up again for... you get the point
<AlanBell> hmm, standard features ftw
<bigcalm> I've been sent a VB.NET script that I need to replicate in PHP. This looks freaky
<ali1234> unity seems to have been designed both for and by people who open very few windows
<AlanBell> I had a look and I think it could be done, the thing uses dbus and it doesn't care what process is trying to add a quicklist to an icon
<ali1234> that is correct
<gord> actually, you could just make a service that hooks up to bamf and modifies all the quicklists for running applications to add window lists
<ali1234> removing quicklist items tends to make unity segfault though
<AlanBell> I figured "something" could run, look at all k the windows and . . .  do what gord just said
<AlanBell> and then you could select it and it would raise *just* *that* *one* window
<ali1234> yeah... and then you could take that code and put it directly into unity and avoid wasting a load of memory and CPU polling dbus and window lists
<czajkowski> someone running precise can you press prtsc please?
<czajkowski> what happens?
<czajkowski> I'm only hearing a camera click
<ali1234> camera noise, screenshot window appears
<AlanBell> screen flashes, camera clicks, no window with screenshot
<ali1234> it does however appear on the second monitor
<oimon> i wonder when/if elementary are gonna release something?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: right same here
<ali1234> i haven't updated yet this week
<czajkowski> AlanBell: whic is kinda annoying as need to take some screen captures
<oimon> try the shutter app?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Applications->Accessories->Take Screenshot?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: gnome-screenshot -i
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh sorry.
<czajkowski> hmm works but with errors
<czajkowski> ** WARNING **: Unable to use GNOME Shell's builtin screenshot interface, resorting to fallback X11. Error: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.gnome.Shell was not provided by any .service files
<AlanBell> oops
<oimon> lubuntu installer has the mouse pointer going the wrong way..feels nasty
<oimon> points / instead of \
<directhex> lean forward!
<directhex> i think that's msnbc's slogan
<oimon> it also uses synaptic instead of software-center :-\
<ali1234> that's bad?
<oimon> yes. i forgot how bad
<oimon> software-centre makes you want to install stuff. it is positively inviting
<oimon> i love the recommended and new stuff. i end up installing extra cool stuff i didn't go there to install
<directhex> bloat!
<mgdm> it's a conspiracy to make youg o and get new hard drives
<ali1234> yes.
<oimon> or maybe to make me enjoy my computer more ;)
<oimon> i wish there was a way you could try apples in the shop before buying. spongey and tasteless, and i've bought a whole bag of them
<bigcalm> Buy a single apple of each type they have. Sample them. Buy lots of the ones you like?
<oimon> this is the coop. all apples are bagged i think
<oimon> maybe i'll just juice them
<Dave2> I don't buy apples all that often because they're so often not that great
<davmor2> this is funny http://wakingupnow.com/blog/dolly-partons-other-voice
<mgdm> czajkowski: congratulations :D
<czajkowski> mgdm: wow youre fast
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<mgdm> hehe
<czajkowski> :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Congrats czajkowski
<daubers> \o/ czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> Same about the Rugny though eh?
<bigcalm> czajkowski: indeed congratulations :) We'll be able to get you up to Wolverhampton for our workplace days now :D
<daubers> Must be cake time.....
<czajkowski> thanks folks am very very happy
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\Rugby
<danfish> congrats czajkowski :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: will you be leaving the community council as well now? :P
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> nor any of the others
<bigcalm> Good
<popey> oi bigcalm
<bigcalm> Oi popey :P
<davmor2> Yay drinks are on czajkowski
<bigcalm> Splendid idea :D
<Myrtti> yay.
<davmor2> czajkowski: see twitter
<AlanBell> czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> weeeeee
<bigcalm> Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiish
<directhex> today's fish is trout a la creme
<directhex> enjoy your meal
<mgdm> Fiiiish.
<mgdm> awww, bigcalm broke it.
<bigcalm> Was that the voice of Tony Hawks? It sounds just like him but he wasn't listed in the credits
<czajkowski> anyone know how you make a .doc non read only
<mgdm> I wouldn't be surprised
<bigcalm> Updating your CV already? ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: yes ta
<mgdm> anyone worthwhile makes their CV in LaTeX
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's an excellent deal. Return Eurostar London to Brussels and 3 nights in a 4/5 star hotel: Â£236 inc. VAT
<directhex> czajkowski, in ubuntu? save it somewhere that isn't the evolution temp folder
<AlanBell> czajkowski: save it somewhere else
 * AlanBell looks forward to seeing that on TheOpenSourcerer's expenses
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Where are you finding these?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just typed it in in eurostar's website
<bigcalm> The EuroStar needs to run from Telford Central
<TheOpenSourcerer> Train & Hotel please.
<bigcalm> I'd use it more then
<AlanBell> I only used it once (for UDS) and it was great
 * popey recalls sitting next to AlanBell on the way back from UDS on the Eurostar
 * popey recalls AlanBell failing to tell me I had left my ipod in the seat pocket
 * AlanBell recalls popey listening to an ipod
<popey> never going away with him again
<TheOpenSourcerer> I really like the Eurostar...
<bigcalm> :(
<gordonjcp> why did you even put it in the seat pocket?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Very civilised way to travel.
<popey> it seemed a reasonable thing to at the time
<popey> i was no longer listening to it
<dwatkins> I like the Eurostar too, very smooth.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a very nice looking hotel for the money: http://www.thonhotels.com/hotels/countrys/belgium/brussels/stanhope-hotel/
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: I stayed in the hotel 2 years ago - twas very pleasant
<danfish> s/that/the
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great. Thanks - you never really *know* from web sites and pictures but it looked all right...
 * popey goes to catch the train to Eastleigh to have curry with tonytiger and the other podcast crew
<AlanBell> have fun
<AlanBell> and make sure you don't talk about oggcamp, you are supposed to be concentrating on the podcast remember :)
<popey> hah
 * popey notes that fab is in the country as well
<popey> doing secret things in london
<davmor2> popey: that was gods way of saying buy a better music player :D
<czajkowski> popey: is he going for interviews in canonical
<AlanBell> heh, that would be funny
<christel> czajkowski: congrats :)
<czajkowski> sqweeeeeee :)
<christel> when do you stop being a lazy layabout? ;)
 * christel tickles lauraloo
<czajkowski> monday
<christel> awesome :)
<diplo> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
 * MartijnVdS installs Chrome on the Xoom and GNex
 * brobostigon has no ICs device, :(
<brobostigon> ICS*
 * MartijnVdS is also awaiting delivery of an Arduino + bits
<brobostigon> would be nice, if they made a version for gingerbread and honeycomb, as very few people, currently have ICS.
<MartijnVdS> Google is pushing for ICS a lot.
<MartijnVdS> they probably won't
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> ohwell.
<brobostigon> alot of people are going to miss out,
<brobostigon> maybe i should try android-x86 ICS, and see if it runs.
<brobostigon> i need to work out, how to get ICs working on my tablet. otherwise, i will be stuck in the dark ages.
<brobostigon> ICS*
<diplo> Any of you guys rooted/rom'd a android box before ?
<MartijnVdS> yes, my old Magic
<MartijnVdS> But I found it annoying, as I had to keep re-flashing for every update
<diplo> So my phone is S-OFF
<MartijnVdS> = lose stuff
<diplo> install rom manager
<diplo> Says i need su
<MartijnVdS> that's root on the rom
<MartijnVdS> that's different from an unlocked bootloader
<diplo> Found a binary of su, do i just copy over the su binary to system/bin ?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: no, you need to follow a guide to root your model/version
<MartijnVdS> probably using adb/fastboot magics
<diplo> kk, I was under the impression it was already done
<diplo> Will follow some more now
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: here, ihave been able to flash, one ontop of the other, for about 6 months, working properly, no loss.
<brobostigon> updates*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: What are you running? Cyanogen?
 * MartijnVdS hasn't found a reason to not run stock
 * mgdm is likely going back to stock firmware on his Desire when he gets a round tuit
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: I have a few "Republic of Perl" ones at work
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: cool :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am running http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882356
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: http://szabgab.com/img/fosdem_2010_tuits.jpg
<mgdm> WANT :D
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: Ask around on #London.pm (on irc.perl.org)
<mgdm> I might just have to :)
<MartijnVdS> This works really well as a desktop background: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6816260055/in/photostream/lightbox/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, makes you wonder what all those other vendors are paying Microsoft for doesn't it? http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120207110012776
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Extortion!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is essentially, aosp gingerbread.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: They've done ports of ICS
<MartijnVdS> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=19648827
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Yep - I reckon you could be right.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i wont try yet, ICs is alittle more memory hungry, and therefore done think it will be usable yet.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it'll be VERY slow
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have 2.2 on my Magic atm (stock Dutch vodafone), but it's impossible
<MartijnVdS> s.o.o.o.o. s.l.o.w.w.w
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: exactly, but maybe one day, they will get it working,
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: gingerbread works perfectly, if not better than stock, in so many ways.
<brobostigon> leonard nimoy getting royalties, "three men and a baby" on film4, good film.
 * BigRedS appears to be in a real-life version of the ubuntu-users mailing list :)
 * dwatkins offers BigRedS a range of watches and cut-rate home insurance
<brobostigon> lol
<BigRedS> haha, there's conversatons about xfce, gnome3 vs unity and all those trollfests
<BigRedS> it is a lug meet
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: sounds like it's time for beer
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: good, strong beer
<brobostigon> leffe, or fransizkaner, :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: we're not in a pub
<kirrus> Unfortionatly
<BigRedS> which is why I'm sat in the corner writing a bunch of code rater than demanding beer
<brobostigon> quote from private eye 1306, "the coalition government is like the chap in the crows nest of the titanic ..." - Boris johnson, telegraph, 16 jan.
<gordonjcp> I found a weird thing
<AlanBell> put it away, quick
<gordonjcp> when you tell nautilus to unmount a USB device, it completely drops the device altogether
<gordonjcp> ie. plug in a card, it appears as sdc, "Eject" or "Safely Remove" and /dev/sdc is gone
<AlanBell> that is a power management thing I think
<AlanBell> it cuts power to the device
<gordonjcp> is there a way to make it behave sanely?
<AlanBell> why?
<gordonjcp> because I want to use the SD card
<gordonjcp> I don't want it to attempt to mount the SD card because then nautilus gets all pissy when I try to remove it
<AlanBell> in what way?
<gordonjcp> well, crashing, for a start
<AlanBell> no, I mean in what way do you want to use the SD card after you have unmounted it?
<gordonjcp> I want to write some raw data to it
<gordonjcp> ie. not a filesystem
<AlanBell> ok, so did you want the thing to not be automounted in the first place?
<gordonjcp> that would be great too
<gordonjcp> either way
<AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/89244/how-to-disable-automount-in-nautiluss-preferences
<gordonjcp> urgh
<gordonjcp> see that's exactly what I wanted to avoid
<gordonjcp> once again getting sane behaviour from Ubuntu involves fiddling about with dconf
<AlanBell> for debatable values of sane
<gordonjcp> well
<gordonjcp> it's increasingly hard to actually *do* anything in Ubuntu
<gordonjcp> more and more of it is being locked down
<AlanBell> totally agree with your more general point
<gordonjcp> it resembles a badly-reinvented Android
<gordonjcp> if the idea is to make a granny-friendly "i've got the internet" OS for locked-down machines, then great
<gordonjcp> but it's bloody useless for people who actually want to use their computers for more complicated things
<AlanBell> like switching between two windows :)
<gordonjcp> well yeah, for one thing
<gordonjcp> while I admire the inventive mind that came up with the idea of hooking alt-tab to a random number generator, I do find myself questioning the usefulness
<gordonjcp> also the alt-f2 debacle
<gordonjcp> in Gnome 2, or lxde, or xfce, or ghod knows what else, you press "alt-f2", you type the name of the thing you want to run in, optionally with some arguments, and it runs it
<gordonjcp> in Unity you press alt-f2, a search box comes up, you type what you want to run, it goes off and guesses what it thinks you wanted to run, and runs that instead
<gordonjcp> generally gnome-calculator
<gordonjcp> it just plain doesn't work
<gordonjcp> "gnome-calculator" and "gedit" only have three letters the same in them
<AlanBell> I don't generally use it but I just tried it now and it seems to have caught the same problem searching for stuff that the hud has
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: exactly the same
<gordonjcp> *mostly* if you don't type the full name in it might guess right
<gordonjcp> but it shouldn't be guessing at all
<AlanBell> and if you *do* type the full name it offers something else
<AlanBell> ah, I see a bug that is fileable
<gordonjcp> and then most of the time it runs gnome-calculator no matter what you do
<AlanBell> I happened to try with mumble and onboard picked at random
<gordonjcp> current Ubuntu seems to be geared up for insane computer experts
<AlanBell> "mumbl" offers mumble but "mumble" offers "mumble-overlay" and "onboar" offers onboard but "onboard" offers onboard-settings
<gordonjcp> who really know their way around all this weirdass behaviour
<gordonjcp> I'm going to switch to a distro that's not quite so orientated towards mad but clever people, like Arch
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: "evinc" offers "evince", "evince" offers "evince-previewer"
<gordonjcp> it shouldn't offer *anything*, it should just do what I type
<AlanBell> I don't mind it offering stuff if I get it wrong. I just don't often get it wrong.
<gordonjcp> I'd prefer it didn't wait around trying to guess stuff
<gordonjcp> or better still, just kept a history of commands typed
<AlanBell> 928496bug 928496
<AlanBell> bug 928496
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 928496 in unity (Ubuntu) "alt+f2 does not find accurately typed things" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928496
<BigRedS> It doesn't even correct things, it enwrongengs correct and valid ones
<BigRedS> I think I just invented a word "enwrongens"
<gord> this thread has a major potential to get confusing, fast. https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-dev/msg00407.html
<brobostigon> is there a physical model, of the forces prsent, within the milky way, and detailed enough, to show detail around out solar system.?
<brobostigon> our*
<BigRedS> haha
<brobostigon> i want to work out, how the objects around our solar system, have an affect on it.
<AlanBell> gord: wow, bad unity namespace collision there
<AlanBell> in essence it boils down to global menus don't really work as a concept in a VM in seamless mode
<AlanBell> s/in a VM in seamless mode//
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I can see the logic behind them, and I sort-of want to find them workable, but every time I've tried to something else has put me off whatever I used to do it
<AlanBell> what vmware unity mode (and virtualbox seamless mode) should do is proxy the dbusmenu stuff and re-parent it into the host launcher and menus
<AlanBell> even if the host is running OS X
 * AlanBell sweeps up a load of duplicates into bug 842108
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 842108 in unity-lens-applications (Ubuntu Precise) "run command (alt+F2): results do not contain the exact match" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842108
<gordonjcp> eat
<gordonjcp> *neat
<AlanBell> there are 1884 bugs against unity it seems
<AlanBell> massive number of them relating to the unity compiz plugin crashing and bringing everything down with it
<bigcalm> The anarchist plugin, smash the state!
<czajkowski> âââ â   âââ â â âââ
<czajkowski> âââ â   â â âââ âââ
<czajkowski> â â â   â â â â â â
<czajkowski> â â âââ ââ  â â â â
<bigcalm> Thank goodness that I have this terminal open to irsii
<bigcalm> Because that hello looks weird in xchat :)
<bigcalm> Hi czajkowski :)
<bigcalm> http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/xchat_doesnt_like_that.png
<gordonjcp> czajkowski: hi
<czajkowski> bigcalm: awww you miss it in all its glory
<bigcalm> czajkowski: in xchat, yes
<bigcalm> czajkowski: looks ok in irssi
<shauno> a proportional font on irc?  hipster!
<bigcalm> Which is odd, as I'm using the Ubuntu mono font in both places
<bigcalm> shauno: no
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: came out ok on my xchat
<AlanBell> I think when using substituted font glyphs terminal enforces the monospace glyph size, but gtk uses the width of the substitued glyph
<gord> hrm, wrote a script to download videos from a site, using all possible urls i've managed to sniff out of the browser connecting to the site - 21,000 possible urls. this might take a while :(
<bigcalm> Heh, oops
<bigcalm> That reminds me that I need to update my soundcloud leeching script
<bigcalm> It assumes that all files are mp3s and renames files as such. But this is not always true
<bigcalm> Thankfully it is for the solidsteel podcasts that I download though
<mgdm> tut tut
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> I assume that 'file' will give me the info I need
<bigcalm> Maybe I'll use curl rather than wget and read the headers prior to downloading
<mgdm> might just give you application/octet-stream
<bigcalm> Might also give me the original filename
<mgdm> true
<bigcalm> Eg: http://soundcloud.com/ninja-tune/solid-steel-radio-show-20-1/download
<bigcalm> Nothing in the URL to say what it is. A redirect or 2 later you are given a full filename to download
<bigcalm> The web browser names it correctly
<bigcalm> With wget I was naming the file myself
<bigcalm> mgdm: any suggestions?
<mgdm> it'll be in the content-disposition header
<mgdm> I'd expect
<bigcalm> mgdm: spot on! http://paste.ubuntu.com/833278/
<mgdm> whee
<bigcalm> That's using get_headers(). I'll carry on using wget but save with the correct filename
<zleap> czajkowski, that aloha looks fine in xchat
<AlanBell> it depends on the font you are using and the width of âin a substituted font if the glyph isn't in the one you are using
<zleap> ah
<AlanBell> compared to the width of a space in your normal font
<AlanBell> terminal will overlap wide glyphs next to each other
<AlanBell> like this â¥â¥â¥â¥
<AlanBell> graphical applications will make room for them
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] KDE at FOSDEM 2012 - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4532
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Canonical Community Team Meeting  7th Feb 2012 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/07/canonical-community-team-meeting-7th-feb-2012/
<gord> well pitivi crashed almost immediately, i see its not really come on much in the three years since i tried to work on it
 * czajkowski hugs gord 
<gord> \o/
<czajkowski> gordonjcp: I've joined your ranks!
<czajkowski> gord:
<czajkowski> even
<bigcalm> mgdm: http://www.myrant.net/2011/07/19/downloading-soundcloud-playlists/
<gord> czajkowski, aha, another canonicalite i presume?
<czajkowski> yup
<gord> congrats :) we'll get the rest of the people in this channel some day
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I'd consider a web dev job with Canonical if I wasn't heavily laden with work already
<mgdm> you'd need to love the python, I suspect
<bigcalm> :'(
<gord> you do realise that once you get a new job, traditionally, you stop working on the old one right?
<bigcalm> I really should learn it
<gord> i mean, its just tradition, but still
<bigcalm> gord: kinda like the work I have. Don't see the need in rocking the boat atm
<czajkowski> can folks please confirm if this effects you on precise
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screenshot/+bug/928548
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 928548 in gnome-screenshot (Ubuntu) "Pressing print screen results in no image being captured" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<gord> pressed print screen earlier today, worked fine, but didn't present a dialog, just took the screenshot and stored it somewhere
<gord> pitivi is really really really really really really bad, really bad
<czajkowski> yes the somewhre is a bit anoying
<czajkowski> the lack of dialogue is peeing me off
<czajkowski> gord: now mark it effects you
<gord> czajkowski, but that would be lying, it does save the image ;)
<czajkowski> WHERE!
<gord> i only know where because it just happened to save the image in a folder i synchronise with ubuntu one, so the u1 notification told me
<czajkowski> gord: cheating!
<czajkowski> gord: comment on the bug....
<gord> ~/Pictures
<czajkowski> hmmm
<Colonel> channels
<gord> grumble, pitivi is terrible and kdenlive which is pretty good, just happens to have a bug in its decoding library today
<gord> openshot has the same bug :((
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-08
<MartijnVdS> gord: \o/ gstreamer
<Mavrick95> can anyone explain me how i can rename/delete the /etc/x11/xorg.file at the root console?
<popey> morning
 * popey scrolls back
 * popey quite likes the idea of the screenshot tool not popping up a dialog
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> well it would be OK to not pop up a dialog if it informed you where the picture was. Or put it on the clipboard
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
<popey> yeah, a notification bubble popping up with the name of the file that had been saved would be good
<popey> but thats flawed also
<popey> if you want to take a succession of pictures you'd end up with notifications for the previous image in them
<popey> i dont care much i use shutter instead, it's way better than gnome screenshot
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lat night my son aked for a launcher thing for Minecraft on his 11.10 desktop. Jeez, that's a right palaver. Why can't I just right click on the launcher and select "Create Launcher" ffs.
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: java is why
<AlanBell> hmm
<popey> well, actually minecraft packaging is why
<popey> because you dont have a minecraft package that contains a desktop file
<AlanBell> neither sounds convincing to me
<TheOpenSourcerer> What. I can right click on my desktop in 10.10 and create a lanucher. What I enter in the command string is entirely up to me.
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/34408/how-to-add-minecraft-to-unity-launcher
<TheOpenSourcerer> Exactly. I read that. I refer back to my original question. Why is this so hard? If they want Unity for "normal/average users" this kind of thing just sucks
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have several launchers for the same app - with various switches for IP domains or whatnot. Having to jump through cli hoops to do it just seems like a total regression.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That example also creates a "global" launcher if i am not mistaken. That is not what my son wants. He's the only minecraft user on that machine and the minecraft jar is in his ~/bin
<popey> you're not telling me something I don't know âº
<popey> bug 705007
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 705007 in unity "Unity has no method to maintain properties of launchers" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705007
<popey> 2011-01-19
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - A year old.
<AlanBell> so we conclude from this that the design team don't play minecraft
<AlanBell> or play it on a mac :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Man that sucks.
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16919664
<popey> oops
 * czajkowski waves at popey morning :D
<popey> yo
<popey> http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/3/2767453/trendnet-ip-camera-exploit-4chan
<MooDoo> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> On Fusion: "... one gram of deuterium will provide 144 billion Joules of energy when it  is completely burned into helium. One gram of benzene, a common  hydrocarbon, releases just 48kJ when oxidized (burned in the normal  sense)."
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/02/a-crushing-magnetic-field-combined-with-a-laser-may-make-fusion-more-efficient.ars
<diplo> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning diplo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did you get OpenERP running?
<diplo> Nope, heh in a rush last night i forgot to take my work laptop home :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<diplo> My old beast at home isn't up to vm's :/
<diplo> Really must get back my PC from my parents at some point
<diplo> Going to make a start right now
<diplo> Can't get my fingers warm this morning :(
<AlanBell> does documentation for bamf exist outside of canonical I wonder
<MooDoo> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is funny, if it wasn't so sad... The three patents that MS are suing B&N for and one of the ones that Amazon pays a license for. Trivial, not novel or innovative.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/the-three-patents-microsoft-is-hammering-the-nook-withand-why-they-may-be-invalid.ars
<daubers> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Microsoft is, presumably, putting some of its best patents forward in the case..." Oh dear.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<DJones> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning DJones
<brobostigon> weird, bitlbee just reset itself, and killed one of my accounts.
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, I really hope it knocks some of these stupid patents on the head i really do
<diplo> I wonder if it will invalidate all the existing patent agreements with the likes of Samsung etc
<diplo> Not seen that mentioned on any articles i've read so far
<TheOpenSourcerer> If B&N do win and prove that MS patents are hogwash, then Samsung, LG et al might be feeling a little "peeved"
<daubers> Heh, if the patent is invalidated, do you think the others will sue MS for extortion?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I doubt it would invalidate as they were pure commercial agreements made behind closed-doors.
<AlanBell> doubt it
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: That is a very happy thought but as AlanBell says, I would doubt it. They have business that replies on MS as well as Andriod.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\relies\Android.
<TheOpenSourcerer> keyboard failure
<AlanBell> I would think at renegotiation time they might end up paying less
<TheOpenSourcerer> There might be some [ahem] harsh words said behind those doors.
<diplo> I guess MS have been doing this for years now and have a lot of tied up in very strict clauses etc
<AlanBell> but these are complicated "big money" deals all about moving money around balance sheets and avoiding taxes
<diplo> 10.04 nearly installed \o/
<AlanBell> "we must bring down our marketing costs, but we don't care what we spend on licensing costs"
<AlanBell> so lets pay a licensing cost to Microsoft and Microsoft can fund all our marketing activities
<TheOpenSourcerer> indeed
<AlanBell> probably some currency shuffling involved too
<AlanBell> lets pay licensing cost in Yen in the far east and Dollars come out in America
<AlanBell> or vice versa
 * daubers wonders if the little tool shop in tadley will have a set of vernier calipers
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great video - fight between Cannon and Nikon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTVfFmENgPU (Funny)
<diplo> Lets see how good this tutorial is now :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer trembles waiting for diplo's review...
<diplo> heh
<diplo> Tried with Postgres9 TheOpenSourcerer ?
<diplo> Never used postgres but believe 9 has lot's of improvements / speed
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno - what's the packaged version in 10.04? 8?
<TheOpenSourcerer> TBH I never even looked at the version number of Postgres.
<diplo> yeah, think it said 8.48
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<diplo> Well, this is worth it just to get me to look at postgres
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon> i need to plan, to upgrade my vps, from lts to lts, once 12.04 is release.
<daubers> We're looking at migrating from mysql to postgres :(
<diplo> I've debated holding ordering my VPS till 12.04 comes out
<diplo> You read about Ubuntu moving to MariaDB daubers ?
<diplo> Well the suggestion
<brobostigon> i use SQLite on my vps, works well, and is nice and light, and resource friendly.
<AlanBell> diplo: runs fine on postgresql-9.1
<daubers> diplo: That's the main reason we're looking at it
<daubers> brobostigon: No good for multiple applications accessing a DB though
<brobostigon> daubers: ah, didnt know that, interesting.
<AlanBell> diplo: if you are using openerp and looking at postgres you are doing something wrong :)
<knightwise> hey brobostigon AlanBell , and the rest.
<knightwise> good morning to ya
<diplo> heh AlanBell, I always want to look at products I'm going to use.. want to understand how to fix something if it goes wrong
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<AlanBell> yeah, I am aware of one project that went very very wrong because a postgres "expert" went under the openerp API and started tinkering with tables directly
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<diplo> Oh not tinkering for me, more administering like how to run the equivalent of mysqldump etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> pgdump
<brobostigon> i only have drupal using sqlite, so should be ok,
<diplo> ta
<AlanBell> that is fine then :) and openERP does use the database quite sensibly I think (takes advantage of atomic transactions etc)
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Sorry - pg_dump and pg_dumpall
<TheOpenSourcerer> Postgres is a little odd in that it typically has no "root" user.
<TheOpenSourcerer> You su to the postrges user and do most things from the cli
<diplo> Well I'm at home in cli so that's good :)
<diplo> Seems I've grabbed different version of openerp than your notes, different layout
<TheOpenSourcerer> The docs are pretty good - google usually shows me the right way ;-)
 * diplo checks
<AlanBell> there is phppgadmin and phadmin3 but I have not really used them beyond firing them up and deciding that I didn't need to know about the tables
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> 6.1 is different.
<TheOpenSourcerer> See my comments from last night. No separate web client
<TheOpenSourcerer> no need to install second init scripts etc.
<TheOpenSourcerer> web interface listens on :8069
<TheOpenSourcerer> by default
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<diplo> I don't have a bin directory etc, that was the biggest difference so far.. going through your example conf to see what else may need to change
<TheOpenSourcerer> As I also said last night ignore my conf scripts. ;-)
<diplo> Ah, heh i did just scroll up and read
<diplo> But missed that
<mrevell> Guten morgen!
<gord> this might be my favourite headline of the year http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9066337/CCTV-police-officer-chased-himself-after-being-mistaken-for-burglar.html
<dwatkins> haha oops
<dwatkins> "he's behind you!" and other pantomime-esque comments...
<AlanBell> looks like the naked atlantic pedalo crossing record is still up for grabs http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-16929840
<BigRedS> Anyone know of something wiki-like that would work for simple network diagrams?
<BigRedS> Just sticking ASCII-art into mediawiki's not quite ideal :)
<bigcalm> I've been having great fun with dia
<bigcalm> Not wiki like, but useful
<BigRedS> yeah, we've tried that, but basically these need to be as quick adn easy and simple as possible to update else we just end up with outdated diagrams
<BigRedS> so manual uploading etc. doesn't cut it
<dwatkins> BigRedS: I've not used it, but LucidChart appears to be free for up to 2 concurrent users
<popey> BigRedS: http://www.asciiflow.com/
<BigRedS> popey: oh! I've not seen that before!
<dwatkins> awesome
<bigcalm> That is very cool
<BigRedS> dwatkins: ah, that looks a bit less fun but a bit mroe useful also :) Ta
<dwatkins> BigRedS: yeah, I really like popey's link, it solves the problem in a fun way too
<oimon> i don't think i'll see a better website today than that one
<bigcalm> oimon: have you not seen zombo.com ?
<TheAshMan> Hi, how do I completely remove mysql including all related info on users etc..?
<MooDoo> TheAshMan: http://stuffthatspins.com/2011/01/08/ubuntu-10-x-completely-remove-and-clean-mysql-installation/ this help?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<bigcalm> Hidiho
<TheOpenSourcerer> A new world's hottest chilli. >2million scoville (That is insanely hot)
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-news/ci_19909976
<bigcalm> I'm sure it's a lovely plant to grow. But what's the point in trying to make the hottest chilli if the human body can't cope with it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some people can :-D
 * bigcalm shakes his head :P
<TheAshMan> MooDoo: No, I tried that, but after reinstalling, the mysql.user table still contained all the users I previously created.
<kirrus> bigcalm: afaik, indians think we're all wimps for our lack of chilli-eating ability
<popey> I'd probably 'drop databases' before uninstalling
<TheAshMan> popey: Including the mysql and info... DB's?
<bigcalm> popey: if the actual database directories are removed, there's no need
<popey> bigcalm: they arent tho
<popey> unless you manually delete them, guess it doesnt make much difference either way
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> One can manually remove them
<TheAshMan> where are the DB's located?
<bigcalm> Uninstall mysql server and client then use locate to find anything mysql
<bigcalm> TheAshMan: /var/lib/mysql
<TheAshMan> Thanks bigcalm
<zleap> hi
<zleap> my shutdwn icon has gone from my panel
<TheAshMan> right click the panel and select 'Add To Panel' Should be able to find the option in there
<zleap> i can't right click using unity
<TheAshMan> at least you used to be able to :/
<zleap> yeah
<TheAshMan> eyah, just noticed. Sorry, my bad
<zleap> np
<zleap> it used to have my user name as a click point too,  so i could click on that and change users, shut down etc
<zleap> i wonder if thius is related to the fact that ubuntu-desktop got removed, i was unable to log inproperly as there was no actual desktop environment to boot into
<popey> zleap: open a terminal
<popey> zleap: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> and look at what gets reinstalled
<zleap> ok
<popey> paste the content of the terminal to the pastebin
<zleap> http://pastebin.com/sfxA7zH4
<zleap> looks like i am already upto date
<popey> no
<popey> you missed the ^ off the end
<popey> do it again and add the ^ to the end and pastebin that please
<zleap> ok sorry about that
<zleap> http://pastebin.com/iJcG7qv9
<popey> there we go
<zleap> ah
<popey> you're missing some bits that are critical to the indicator area
<zleap> i know,  however when i scroll back it stops so i pasted everything
<popey> just press enter
<popey> to install the missing bits
<zleap> ok
<popey> line 507 and 508
<popey> thats what I'm talking about whats missing
<popey> not the scrollback
<zleap> ok
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> installing now
<popey> you might need to logout/in after
<zleap> ok
<zleap> may restart then as my log out button is missing
<zleap> but as it seems to be installing new kernel stuff then that should be ok
<zleap> brb
<zleap> popey, working now,  thanks
<popey> np
<bigcalm> popey: everybody you tell always misses off the ^. Are we carrot blind?
 * BigRedS groans
<popey> need moar carrots
<daubers> Is there some kind of CC/GPL type licence for open hardware projects?
<gordonjcp> daubers: yes
<daubers> gordonjcp: What's it called?
<gord> you need MORE? geez!
 * daubers passes gord some cake
<gord> nom
<bigcalm> http://www.tapr.org/OHL ?
<daubers> bigcalm: Yeah, having a read of that now
<bigcalm> K
<daubers> ta :)
<gordonjcp> yeah, I was just about to post that
<gordonjcp> the TAPR OHL is probably the longest running
<daubers> Hnmmmm, CERN have one too
<danfish> daubers: have you seen http://solderpad.com/
<daubers> danfish: No....
<gordonjcp> oh yeah, Andrew Back's thing ;-)
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, morning you happy hippy :D
<MooDoo> mornig davmor2 czajkowski oh and congrats
 * daubers reads moar legalese
<davmor2> MooDoo: here have a coffee
 * bigcalm tries to get his head around 3des without much luck
<davmor2> bigcalm: around what now!
<bigcalm> TripleDES
<MooDoo> davmor2: thanks
<davmor2> MooDoo: you need to look at http://wakingupnow.com/blog/dolly-partons-other-voice when you can :)
<gord> davmor2, bigcalm - no time for trip south tomorrow, two weeks time?
<davmor2> gord: yeap
<gord> funky
<davmor2> gord: anyone would think it was like feature freeze next week or something
<bigcalm> Client has a VB.NET script that encrypts and decrypts messages using 3des. I need to replicate this in PHP. Not having a grand time so far
<bigcalm> gord: you said it would be touch and go. Understandable
<morpheous> #scribus
<bigcalm> davmor2: we're a few days into February and I'm still lacking ICS on my Xoom. What gives? :P
<gord> cool, my IDE crashes if i use } - not like i need that character or anything
<bigcalm> o.O
<popey> has anyone here got the newer HP Microserver? Not the N36L?
<gord> when people say that LTS dev releases are relatively stable, they reeeeeeeally are only talking about main ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's motorola I've never known them release to schedule where did you get this bazaar notion that it would be feburary :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: you!
<davmor2> bigcalm: all I said was that the xoom would be getting ICS and pointed you at the news on the T'interweb :P
<daubers> gord: Is there some magic I can do to change how hard I have to push to the left to get the unity bar to appear?
<gord> daubers, ccsm somewhere
<davmor2> bigcalm: I didn't say when
<daubers> gord: Ta :)
<davmor2> gord: use a better IDE?  geany and nano ftw
<bigcalm> I'm really happy with NetBeans
<bigcalm> My Eclipse days are far behind me now
<diplo> I like netbeans, I just wish it wasn't such a hugry soab
<bigcalm> It isn't, compared to Eclipse
<gordonjcp> I installed eclipse because it seems that Android development is heavily tied into it
<gordonjcp> but it won't run on my PC
<bigcalm> Mind, I did download the PHP only instance
<gordonjcp> and it's too hard to use anyway
<oimon> bigcalm: no i hadn't seen that site either, but popeys site is better :D
<bigcalm> Pfft
<bigcalm> You can do anything on zombo.com
<MooDoo> how are you today davmor2 ?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: ello
<czajkowski> davmor2: oi I'm no hippy!
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski congrats on the job :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm good dude, you?
<czajkowski> thank you :-)
<MooDoo> davmor2: meh! and czajkowski you're welcome, dead chuffed for you
<davmor2> czajkowski: Long hair and flowing dresses if ever there was a hippy it's you :P, and you're happy and happy and hippy went together so <blows_raspberries> :P </blows_raspberries>
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski = one stunning hippy i think you'll find :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: but the keyword there is still hippy ;)
<czajkowski> ye lot are nutters
<MooDoo> czajkowski: nah we're just smitten with your wonderous hippyesk beauty :)
<MooDoo> lol
<gord> i agree with czajkowski
 * bigcalm semi-regrets joining ##php
<bigcalm> Not used to such a busy channel
<diplo> heh bigcalm that's why i normally ask for help outside of there :)
<bigcalm> diplo: I wasn't getting anywhere with google and here so thought I'd try there
<bigcalm> Will try harder next time (pestering here that is)
<diplo> heh
<diplo> This still for the 3des thing ?
<bigcalm> Yes
<diplo> Never played myself I'm afraid
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: what about it?
<bigcalm> The client has given me the password, but not the key or iv. Apparently I am able to derive those myself. Trying to understand VB.NET is a pain
<diplo> Using mcrypt ?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> VB.NET script I need to turn into PHP: http://www.vb-helper.com/howto_net_des_file.html
<diplo> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1142477/using-mcrypt-to-decrypt-a-ciphertext-3des-cbc-mode
<bigcalm> Using this as a base: http://mishu666.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/problem-and-solve-of-3des-incompatibilities-with-nets-tripledescryptoserviceprovider/
<bigcalm> diplo: indeed, except that I don't have any keys. This is why I'm trying to reverse engineer the vb.net script
<bigcalm> 1st step was to realise that mcrypt wasn't installed on my dev server ;)
<diplo> :/
<diplo> Great fun, guessing the reason is to put data available on a intranet?
<davmor2> hey mrevell  where is the best place to ask some /lp/~user/+junk - bzr questions?
<bigcalm> Gah! Thunderbird just popped up a reminder for tomorrow's work place day. Except I thought it meant it was today
 * bigcalm hits dismiss with frustration
<mrevell> davmor2, #launchpad -- what's your question?
<davmor2> mrevell: I am using the whole system for syncing and publicising my testscripts whoever it doesn't seem to be syncing all the image changes :(
<czajkowski> davmor2: you broke it
<davmor2> however even
<mrevell> davmor2, Syncing from where? Do you have a link to the branch where this is happening?
<davmor2> mrevell: local pc pushes to :parent with the changes however the changes aren't in the lp folder, link is lp:~davmor2/+junk/testscripts  the free_app_install folder has the code changes but not the new images that the code relies on :(
<mrevell> davmor2, Let's move this to #launchpad
<davmor2> wilko
<ali1234> i made a video that is so long that totem thinks it is -52:-13
<ali1234> and the file is 1mb
<ali1234> think i should upload it to youtube?
<ali1234> totem seems to overflow at about 264 hours
<andylockran> heylo
<zleap> what has happened to bluefish in 10.10
<zleap> sorry 11.10
<zleap> ok found it,  got removed during upgrade
<mattt_> afternoon afternoon
<MooDoo> hi
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgAZmSc5WS0
<ali1234> the "short" version just finished processing :)
<czajkowski> gord: popey is this normal. when applications are at max it goes behind the launcher. http://twitpic.com/8h810a/full
<popey> have you logged out / in since you updated the machine?
<oimon> just seen a female student wearing tiny shorts outside. doesn't she know it's subzero temperatures?
<diplo> oimon, It's fashion, weather doesn't come in to it!
<czajkowski> popey: this morning nope
<diplo> :P
<popey> czajkowski: update and then logout/in
<daubers> oimon: Since you where watching her, she may have achieved her aim?
<oimon> diplo: are blue legs fashionable?
<diplo> There was a TV doc on exactly stuff like that recently, some girls out in liverpool with next to nothing on and asked about why there were like that at -5+ temps
<diplo> And they basically said looks were more important than keeping warm
<diplo> :/
<daubers> ah ha!
<oimon> it's sports afternoon on wednesdays , so i guess she was going to play netball or something...but...trackkie bottoms?
<daubers> gord: There's an option to change the sensitivity of the left push in the appearences thing now \o/ Much easier to get too
<zleap> diplo, I am sure children / young people can't feel the cold in the same way adults do,
<czajkowski> popey: sweet that fixed it
<czajkowski> also whats with the new password login box, it's TINY, and you dont know if your cursor is in it
<oimon> i'm beginning to see that unity is so-called because the options available to the user are converging on "one-way" of doing things
<gordonjcp> oimon: it's t-shirt weather here, where are you?
<oimon> gordonjcp: under a blanket in my office
<diplo> heh very true zleap, also since losing about 5 stone I now feel the cold everywhere :(
<diplo> gordonjcp, near bath and it's still -2 ish here
<gordonjcp> diplo: this is one of the reasons I don't really want to lose any weight
<diplo> And i think oimon is near reading
<gordonjcp> METAR EGPF 081250Z 12004KT 080V170 CAVOK 01/M03 Q1039
<diplo> So south :)
<oimon> diplo: e london right now
<gordonjcp> 1C, -3 dew point
<gordonjcp> bright and sunny
<diplo> If there wasn't a wind, I'd be fine but that wind chill is the killer
<oimon> to be fair, nowhere in britain is 'tiny shorts weather'
 * gordonjcp has been working 270' above ground level most of the morning, at just about the highest point in Glasgow
<diplo> Well you have given away why you don't feel cold, well know fact Glaswegians don't feel it :D
<popey> czajkowski: bug i expect, just noticed myself
<diplo> known*
<diplo> My gran is from there, never has heating on at home :(
<davmor2> czajkowski: the launcher thing is gords fault,  and don't believe him when he denies it fanatically ;)
<BigRedS> anyone got any favourite am-i-on-any-spam-blacklist sites?
<gordonjcp> diplo: I'm not a Glaswegian
<diplo> Oh :$
<shauno> looking for a http proxy that'll keep a complete copy of everything that passes; any suggestions?  (debugging embedded devices, not stalking)
<TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: wireshark ;-)
<shauno> heh, that's a pain in the rear to parse. trying to pull xml that's being posted to the server
<daubers> shauno: Will squid not do that?
<BigRedS> ew. squid.
<BigRedS> I did have a nifty thing that, despite being written in java, was quite good for getting json out of the traffic. I can't remember what it was, though
<shauno> trying to figure out if squid will do it atm.  the documentation (and config) is fairly monstrous for atypical setups :/
<shauno> I love that we're trying to reverse-engineer our own devices because it's easier than getting documentation from bangalore :/
<Myrtti> shauno: http://mitmproxy.org/ ?
<Myrtti> http://mclov.in/2012/02/08/path-uploads-your-entire-address-book-to-their-servers.html
 * popey tickles gord with hud
<shauno> Myrtti: that looks like a damned fine start, thanks
<ali1234> shauno: wrieshark -> "follow tcp stream"
<ali1234> i do it all the time to rip video from the bbc
<ali1234> er, i mean, i never do that
<ali1234> time to try out gnome-shell again
<occupy64k> have been using gnome shell for quite a while now
<ali1234> i see this is still hilariously bad, but i'm hoping to get MGSE installed and maybe that will fix it
<BigRedS> it's not changed appreciably recently as far as I can tell
<BigRedS> I am using Debian's, though
<occupy64k> https://extensions.gnome.org/
<ali1234> why does the taskbar thing at the top only show the current application?
<BigRedS> because the point of that taskbar at the top is simply to use up excess vertical pixels
<ali1234> lol two onscreen keyboards.
<ali1234> onboard *and* the gnome one (which is miles better than onboard btw)
<ali1234> the indicator menus are very racy
<ali1234> in the sense that they suffer from race conditions and do things you don't expect them to
<occupy64k> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/56/shutdown-by-default/
<ali1234> whats that?
<ali1234> "This extension is incompatible with your version of GNOME."
<occupy64k> One of the top issues with gnome shell is the lack of a shutdown option by default
<ali1234> i never shut down this machine
<occupy64k> :-)
<ali1234> i won't be able to use this unless they fix the menus though
<occupy64k> what's up with the menus?
<ali1234> when i click on say the accessability menu it activates high contrast mode 50% of the time
<ali1234> because the menus are too slow
<ali1234> and i've already moved the mouse down over the first item before it processes the mouse up
<BigRedS> occupy64k: that can't be one of the top issues!
<occupy64k> My machine is pretty old, but the response to clicking on the accessibility menu seems fast
<BigRedS> it's pretty high on the daft scale, but there's much more annoying things than just having to hold down alt
<ali1234> maybe your machine isn't under heavy load most of the time like mine is
<occupy64k> Well there was a big hoo-haar about it when gnome shell was released
<occupy64k> probably not
<BigRedS> yeah, I think that's more its daftness than its annoyance
<ali1234> i see this has the same "shell game" effect as unity when trying to switch between similar windows
<ali1234> erm... how do i minimize windows?
<occupy64k> most of the time you don't need to
<occupy64k> but you can right click on the title
<BigRedS> ali1234: install gnome-tweak-tool and you can get the buttons back
<ali1234> what makes you think that most of the time i don't need to?
<ali1234> how else am i supposed to access the windows behind a window?
<occupy64k> I never really use minimize in gnome shell
<daubers> ali1234: You're supposed to have 1 window per workspace (apparently)
<BigRedS> someone's made a blog post describing how to unbreak most of the silly things in gnome-shell
<occupy64k> super key
<BigRedS> occupy64k: yeah, but you're probably not ali1234
<occupy64k> it's just a different kind of UI, so takes some adjustment
<BigRedS> but, yes, one founding concept of gnome3 does seem to be intentionally mistaking workspaces for windows
<BigRedS> er, gnome-shell
<occupy64k> not necessarily.  I often have multiple windows per workspace
<occupy64k> but just use the super key or alt tab to switch
<BigRedS> ali1234: http://piecesoflint.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/how-to-tweak-gnome-3-to-your-needs/ is what I do whenever I install gnome-shell now
<BigRedS> occupy64k: yeah, I know you can. But this disappearing workspaces thing, for example, must break workspaces for so many people
<BigRedS> I've tried to get the hang of it and I can't work out how I'm supposed to use them when they're never where I left them
<occupy64k> you mean if you remove all windows, the workspace disappears?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> so when I close my terminal on #1, suddenly my web stuff is on #1 not #2, mail on #2 not #3 etc.
<occupy64k> There might be some option for fixed workspaces, but I havn't used it
<BigRedS> so I actually need to look at these workspaces as I scroll through them, else I overshoot
<BigRedS> there's an extension for it
<BigRedS> but I don't understand why that would ever be desired behaviour
<occupy64k> I guess that the habit for fixed workspaces is historical
<BigRedS> I suspect it's for good reason, too
<ali1234> how do i get a menu?
<ali1234> how do i get rid of the dash?
<occupy64k> I think the dash is fixed
<occupy64k> rather like Unity
<ali1234> so any time i hit the top left corner i'm going to get chucked into a confusing ugly mess?
<ali1234> can i at least prevent it from ever being shown somehow?
<ali1234> i keep accidentally closing firefox because that's the only way to get back to the windows behind it :(
<occupy64k> just hit super key then select the window
<ali1234> for each window? no, that will take ages
<occupy64k> It depends how many windows there are, I suppose
<ali1234> 4
<ali1234> i only need one of them, but they all look identical
<occupy64k> oh sometimes I have more than that
<ali1234> so there is no way to tell which one is the one i want based on the dash
<occupy64k> are you trying to create multiple terminals?
<ali1234> yes
<occupy64k> ok, for that I just use Terminator
<occupy64k> it's much easier than multiple windows
<ali1234> and multiple text editor windows as well
<ali1234> can you undock windows from terminator?
<occupy64k> no
<ali1234> rearrange them?
<occupy64k> I think so
 * hamitron is "liking" KDE
<ali1234> what if i want to temporarily maximise one of them?
<dutchie> ali1234: yep
<ali1234> can i do it without learning obscure keyboard shortcust which don't work in any other programs?
<dutchie> you can do it using a remappable keyboard shortcut
<occupy64k> I think the shorcuts are definable
<occupy64k> you can also have tabs
<ali1234> tabs are no use, i need to see several terminals at the same time and move them around between two monitors arbitrarily
<dutchie> you can split/maximise from the right-click context menu also
<hamitron> sounds to me like it can work, if you aren't stuck to "old ways"
<occupy64k> indeed
<occupy64k> it's a different kind of UI
 * hamitron unfortunately likes old ways
<BigRedS> I got used to it relatively quickly
<ali1234> KDE has a lot going for it, mainly it has a sensible window list
<BigRedS> had a go on cinnamon at fosdem and it felt a lot like 2002
<ali1234> i would use it if it wasn't so resource heavy, ugly, and crashy
<hamitron> well, I only used KDE, because it was default and I haven't used it since 2.0
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> crashy and resource heavy?
<ali1234> yes. all those gradients don't render themselves
<hamitron> not crashed on me yet, and as light as Gnome 2
<ali1234> you mean gnome 2 and compiz right?
<hamitron> probably
<ali1234> kwin compositing doesn't even work on my computer
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> i get corrupted graphics after about an hour
<ali1234> then it crashes
<occupy64k> you can maximize and restore for temporary full screen terminals in Terminator
<hamitron> I won't be using it long term.... just using it, so i can say I have :)
<ali1234> ok, now i've installed some extensions, how do i enable them?
<occupy64k> I don't think you need to enable them
<ali1234> i think i need to restart it
<ali1234> nope, that did nothing
<ali1234> ah now they appear in gnome-tweak-tool
<ali1234> ah there we go
<ali1234> now i have a bottom panel and a window list
<ali1234> unfortunately no multi monitor support
<occupy64k> I only have one monitor :-(
<bigcalm> xfce will be with me for a while longer I think
<ali1234> well that's a deal breaker
<ali1234> back to unity then i guess
<hamitron> xfce and lxde I like
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> fluxbox too
<hamitron> but depends on my mood
<BigRedS> no multi-monitor support? Works for me
<BigRedS> the old fashioned way - just configure it in the screens bit of system settings
<BigRedS> What might annoy you, though, is that the secondary monitor doesn't move with teh workspaces
<BigRedS> so if you stick something on the secondary montiro in workspace one and go to workspace 2, the primary montor moves to workspace2 and the secondary doesn't change
<BigRedS> I'm still trying to work out if that's what I want it to do
<ali1234> unity 2d multimonitor is still broken too
<occupy64k> I expect that games like FlightGear would look good across multiple monitors
<ali1234> they do, but only if you can get the window manager to cooperate
<ali1234> you know what boggles my mind most about unity?
<ali1234> imagine you have a lot of windows open
<ali1234> and you click on the firefox launcher
<ali1234> but it doesn't give you the firefox window that you wanted
<ali1234> at this point you are expected to repeat the action which just failed to give you the result you wanted
<ali1234> how is that logical or useful?
<ali1234> if insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results then unity is designed for people who are insane
<BigRedS> yeah, the alt-tab behaviour is mostly the bit that makes me wonder if anything else is really supposed to make sense
<ali1234> the alt-tab in unity is probably the best thing about it
<BigRedS> what? Oh, this is gnome3 you're on about?
<ali1234> unfortunately i don't use alt-tab or any keyboard shortcuts for window management
<BigRedS> hah, clearly it does work for somebody, then
<ali1234> yeah, basically unity alt-tab = good for people who don't use alt-tab :)
<BigRedS> ah yeah, that'd do it :)
<ali1234> but i like how you can go in to each application group
<ali1234> see unity's alt-tab is the only window management method it has that is consistent
<ali1234> everything else has totally unpredictable result
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwlpdfmtVGA
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<BigRedS> you can go into groups in gnome shell. I do it with the arrow keys, but I suspect th emouse works, too
<ali1234> i demand that my graphical user interfaces are entirely mouse driven
<ali1234> if i wanted to use the keyboard i'd be using a shell window
<ali1234> and i often am
 * davmor2 prods the happy hippy czajkowski with a big stick
<BigRedS> I'm amazed that I've agreed with you so much this far, then :)
<ali1234> but i like to be able to rearrange my shell windows with the mouse, not obscure keyboard shortcuts
<BigRedS> i dislike unity because of how inoperable it is without a mouse
<bigcalm> Does 'Nothing' in VB.NET mean the same as 'null' in PHP?
<ali1234> if i am using a UI and you make me look down at the keyboard to press alt-tab, that slows me right now
<ali1234> well unity is unusable whether you use mouse or keyboard basically
<BigRedS> Yeah, I get the same when I'm mid-work and need to fund the mouse
<BigRedS> haha, fair enough
<ali1234> that's what unity is about: it is a great leveller
<ali1234> it is equally hard to use for newbs and professional
<ali1234> you have to use both keyboard and mouse to be fast with unity
<ali1234> and it also helps if you never open more than 3 windows
<BigRedS> i think i decided it sort-of worked if I only had one workspace
<ali1234> yes, that's because in unity there is no difference at all between a window on another workspace and a window that is minimized
<BigRedS> in that I could relatively reliably find the window I wanted
<BigRedS> yeah, there seems to be two classes of window - "this one" and "the rest of them"
<ali1234> either way it will show in the launcher, and either wway clicking it will reveal a load of other windows you don't want, and obscure all the windows you had before, which is utterly confusing
<BigRedS> and I don't really want "this one" in my alt-tab
<BigRedS> oh yeah, I tried the launcher buttons for a bit
<ali1234> i have learned to always middle click them now
<ali1234> left clicking them is just asking for about 50 windows to pop up and cover the whole screen
<BigRedS> what does middle-click do?
<ali1234> opens a new one of whatever it is
<ali1234> ie what you'd expect left click to do
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> yeah
<ali1234> every day i have to close about 50 firefox and terminals though
<ali1234> because i lose track of them and just open new ones
<ali1234> because it's less painful than window management in unity
<ali1234> a typical situation is i get an email saying "fix this thing"
<ali1234> so i try to open a shell to fix it
<ali1234> that takes me to another workspace where i already had a shell
<ali1234> then i've lost the email
<ali1234> so i have to go back to the email, and this time middle click the launcher
<ali1234> so basically i've learned never to left click launchers and just go directly to the last step
<BigRedS> yeah, I'd have just stopped using unity
<ali1234> i tried but everything else is worse
<BigRedS> I've only tried to use it on a machine where I need to do any work once, and after about five minutes I just installed gnome3
<ali1234> gnome-shell is the worst of the bunch
<AlanBell> gnome seem to be on stronger stuff than the Canonical design team at the moment, they just removed the lovely dialog with a preview you get when you take a screenshot
<AlanBell> it now just dumps a timestamped file in ~/pictures
<ali1234> to be fair that dialog does need a lot of work
<ali1234> it's pretty useless as is
<ali1234> i bet they'll replace it with something better soonish
<AlanBell> it pops up, shows me the screenshot, I can then copy and paste it into something, or save it somewhere I want it
<ali1234> it needs to support send-to/open-with/xdg-open or whatever
<BigRedS> I think both teams are utterly mad
<ali1234> yep, no disagreement on that one
<gord> i'd like to be able to crop in that dialog, that would be neat
<gord> i'm always cropping screenshots
<ali1234> yeah that too
<BigRedS> that said, I've not looked for any unity analog for the gnome shell extensions I've installed
<AlanBell> it would be nice
<BigRedS> didn't one of them have a way of doing that? Hit print screen, then draw on it what you wanted and then hit save
<BigRedS> maybe kde. Sure it was a linuxy thing
<gord> i should just add cropping support to eye of gnome someday, thats 99% of what i have to open gimp for
<ali1234> KDE screenshot probably reuses a whole paint program widget. that's how KDE works
<ali1234> there's only 1 widget and it does everything
<popey> oi aquarius
<popey> if i right click a file and publish to u1, i get a notify telling me the url
<popey> how am I supposed to use that url given i cant click notifications?
<ali1234> LOL
<ali1234> quickly hit printscreen
<ali1234> oh wait that doesn't work any more
<popey> i can get the url by going to the website one.ubuntu.com and finding the file and then clicking more then copy and paste the url, but thats long winded and rubbish
<davmor2> popey: right click on the folder again, select copy url
<davmor2> then paste
<popey> its a file
<popey> not a folder
<davmor2> same thing
<popey> thats odd, that option was _not_ there earlier
<popey> thanks
<davmor2> popey: it isn't till it is on u1 and made published
<daubers> The devs internal popey is working faster than the real popey /o\
<bigcalm> Aww, I was hoping that somebody was monitoring this channel and making changes based on conversations
<ali1234> hmm i have not tried razor-qt yet
<aquarius> popey, ya?
<popey> make u1 faster
<czajkowski> wow that is a big picutre of ian http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical
<aquarius> popey, see davmor's comment.
<popey> see my comment âº
<aquarius> once you've had the notification, the menu item to get the url should be available.
<czajkowski> aquarius: warmed up yet
<aquarius> czajkowski, just about :)
<popey> thats what i did
<popey> and the menu was all grey
<bigcalm> aquarius: how did the 3rd house viewing go?
 * popey tests again
<popey> bah, bloody works now
<aquarius> :-)
<czajkowski> hmm may have to change my themefrom ambiance, trying to change zoom size to read pdfs and I can't see the menu bar or options well
<aquarius> popey, interesting. Shouldn't be. You might be being bitten by a nautilus-integration bug. Are you running U1 nightlies?
<popey> no, 12.04 tho
<aquarius> bigcalm, they seem really keen on my house... but they haven't made an offer yet, and they've gotta sell their flat
<bigcalm> .
<bigcalm> aquarius: really hope it goes through this time :)
<aquarius> popey, you may want to ask on #ubutnuone whether it's a good idea to run the nightlies at the moment and see if it's fixed, if you can reliably replicate the problem?
<aquarius> bigcalm, so do I, pal, so do I
 * bigcalm swears at vb.net
<popey> thanks aquarius
<czajkowski> danfish: you gotten your rugby tickets yet?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: they told me they would send tickets a week before the match
<AlanBell> can't quite believe I am going to a rugby game yet
 * TheOpenSourcerer has had enough of phoning today & goes to make chicken and roast veg fajitas for dinner :-D
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye just wondered if anyone had gotten them
<jpds> Hmm.
<popey> AlanBell: i went to a rugby game once.
<popey> once
<dutchie> hi folks
<dutchie> how is everyone
<popey> GREAT!
<dutchie> woohoo!
<popey> YES!
<dutchie> feeling up to diagnosing some wireless network weirdness?
<popey> NO!
<dutchie> :(
<popey> doesn't sound as great in the negative does it?
<popey> sorry, on the phone
<dutchie> fair enough
<dutchie> tbh i'm slightly sure that the main problem is my phone not connecting to wireless networks
<gord> i also went to a rugby game once
<gord> it was cold
<gord> i had to stand up
<ali1234> hmm this razor-qt is suprisingly good
<davmor2> ali1234: everytime I hear Razor I think of the moto Razr for some reason and think the -qt tag is just the next gen version :D
<ali1234> no its a desktop environment
<ali1234> it's better than xfce but not quite as good as gnome 2
<ali1234> which isn't bad considering that xfce has been around nearly as long as gnome 2
<ali1234> and this is only about 3 months old
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<hamitron> is it still a good idea to use the same type (GTK/Qt) of apps?
<hamitron> just wondering if qt has everything needed
<ali1234> hamitron: if you are using gnome then yes
<ali1234> hamitron: if you're using KDE everything is such a mess that you won't notice any of the problems this causes
<hamitron> hehe :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: poke
<ali1234> hamitron: same goes for XFCE actually
<hamitron> I just remember doing it to save memory
<hamitron> but in the past, I avoided Qt
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's not bad nearly a month and a half to stop you being nice when I prod you :P
<ali1234> Qt isn't a problem
<ali1234> it's KDE
<hamitron> that razor-qt looks interesting
<ali1234> Qt can look exactly like Gtk... KDE can't
<hamitron> I'm gonna have to try it
<ali1234> although Gtk can look exactly like KDE
<hamitron> looks don't worry me
<ali1234> but KDE looks so horrible that nobody cares
<gord> Qt can't really look/feel exactly like gtk
<gord> its always off, much to my annoyance
<ali1234> nowhere near as much as KDE though
<hamitron> I don't don't want loads of different libs loaded, if it still makes a difference
<gord> well kde is just put everything you might ever want to do in a menu
<hamitron> :))
<gord> i opened up the audio effects menu in kdenlive, it took three full (1200 pixels) sized menu panes for it to list all the entries
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> that isn't even the problem... KDE simply doesn't have a theme that can look like Gtk
<ali1234> not even close
<ali1234> and not even if you trawl through the kde-look.org third party themes
<gord> well there is the theme that uses gtk to do the rendering, that is pretty close
<gord> it just doesn't look like gnome because their UI design is different, different HIGs
<davmor2> ali1234: yeah but you have a weird taste in desktop
<ali1234> yep, but then you still have window decorations, panels, and anything involving plasma, which can't be themed at all
<hamitron> I can't even see what is hugely wrong with Qt vs GTK apps here :/
<ali1234> also KDE doesn't have a theme that uses Gtk, you are thinking of Qt
<gord> yeah it does, i've used it, in kde
<ali1234> then there's the font problems
<hamitron> so all these "problems" are purely cosmetic?
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> all problems with KDE are cosmetic
<hamitron> I'll stop worrying then
<ali1234> all problems with gnome are functional
<hamitron> guess that leaves unity
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> all the problems in unity are functional too
<hamitron> so what would you complain about LXDE?
<hamitron> I guess it maybe isn't very configurable
<ali1234> well it's as ugly as KDE and as broken and gnome 2 and also it has no developers to fix it
<ali1234> and the same goes for XFCE
<hamitron> and all that
<MooDoo> :)
<gordonjcp> ali1234: so which GUI *do* you like?
<hamitron> he is a "critic"
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> gordonjcp: gnome 2
<hamitron> as am I tbh
<gordonjcp> so use it, then
<ali1234> it is no longer supported
<ali1234> second choice is unity
<ali1234> that's what i use
<hamitron> I still think there must be enough people to continue supporting Gnome 2
<ali1234> you can't make a product as good as gnome 2 without financial backing
<ali1234> for evidence of this you only have to look at everything else
<gordonjcp> ali1234: bummer
<ali1234> unity is nearly as good, everything else is absolutely awful
<gordonjcp> ali1234: maybe you should start a project to revive gnome 2, or port the gnome 2 desktop environment to gnome 3
<ali1234> gordonjcp: unfortunately i don't have the financial resources that would require
<gordonjcp> ali1234: sucks to be you, then
<ali1234> yeah
<occupy64k> I think Mint are doing something like that - gnome 3 which looks like gnome 2
<gordonjcp> occupy64k: yes, cinnamon
<ali1234> but i can still spread the suckage around by pointing out very loudly the problems with the alternatives
<gordonjcp> all software sucks
<ali1234> occupy64k: yes i just tried that. it has no multimonitor support (because it is gnome 3) and it doesn't really look like gnome 2 other than having a bottom panel
<gordonjcp> as for me, I've just had to learn to put up with the massive shortcomings in all OSes that aren't BeOS
<occupy64k> never used BeOS
<occupy64k> what happened to it?
<hamitron> has anything come of that Gnome 2 fork?
<ali1234> no idea. i think they gave up
<brobostigon> for my old friend samantha i have to say this, who's birthday it is. my only other friend in world, and my soul mate. :'(
<gordonjcp> occupy64k: it didn't make any money and Be went out of business
<brobostigon> happy birthday, :)
<gordonjcp> occupy64k: various half-assed rescue plans were floated
<occupy64k> presumably it wasn't open source
<gordonjcp> not in the least
<brobostigon> haiku is OSS.
<gordonjcp> there is, however, Haiku
<occupy64k> hence the classic propriatary software death
<brobostigon> :)
<gordonjcp> which *is* open-source and is getting more awesomer every day
<brobostigon> agreed gordonjcp
<brobostigon> :)
<ali1234> why exactly do people like beos?
<hamitron> Gnome 2 is open source, and will be dead ;)
<occupy64k> is haiku a version of BeOS?
<ali1234> i mean it has a user interface comparable to TWM
<brobostigon> occupy64k: it is OSS, and inspired by BeOS.
<ali1234> back in the day it had good multimedia capabilities, but all computers have that now
<bigcalm> directhex: ping
<directhex> ?
<bigcalm> Aha
<brobostigon> brb
<bigcalm> I need to look at the source for PasswordDeriveBytes() in mono. Call me dumb, but where would I find this online?
<davmor2> bigcalm: on google :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: would you google that for me?
<hamitron> I never saw the point of paying for BeOS with limited applications, when you can pay for MS Windows and have more support
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> http://www.koders.com/csharp/fid7261309A0690C1A46CB79F66ED888E01580D0869.aspx
<hamitron> brb, phone
<ali1234> bigcalm: 7th hit or something
<bigcalm> ali1234: yes, that's C#. I wanted to make sure that everybody did it the same way
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<bigcalm> The version I really need to know about is for vb.net
<ali1234> what?
<bigcalm> :)
<ali1234> it's the same
<bigcalm> Good
<bigcalm> Next is, if an argument is passed as Nothing, what's the default value used?
<ali1234> which function?
<occupy64k> sounds like undefined bahavior
<bigcalm> Dim password_derive_bytes As New PasswordDeriveBytes( password, Nothing, "SHA384", 1000 )
<ali1234> you'd think that, but .net is insane and passes Nothing all the time
<ali1234> so the constructor
<occupy64k> Can you actually run VB programs on linux?
<ali1234> no but you can run vb.net programs
<davmor2> bigcalm: https://raw.github.com/mono/mono/master/mcs/class/corlib/System.Security.Cryptography/PasswordDeriveBytes.cs :P
<bigcalm> As far as I can make out, Nothing passed in the 2nd is the salt
<ali1234> actually you can run vb programs in wine sometimes
<bigcalm> davmor2: thank you
<occupy64k> via mono?
<hamitron> isn't there that VB non-free software?
<davmor2> bigcalm: that was mono source for PasswordDeriveBytes() and then looking at the stackoverflow answer :)
<hamitron> realbasic or something
<occupy64k> a long, long time ago in another universe I sometimes wrote VB programs
<bigcalm> Looking at the source, I can't see a default value set for rgbSalt
<ali1234> there isn;t one
<ali1234> there is code to handle null though
<ali1234> so most likely if you pass Nothing it will not use any salt
<hamitron> erm, no more funding for Kubuntu?
<bigcalm> I need to replicate this function in PHP. So if no salt is used, not sure how I'm meant to pass that into PHP things that expect one
<bigcalm> Maybe null will do
<occupy64k> Kubuntu has been defunded
<ali1234> pass in empty string
<ali1234> salt is just appended usually
<occupy64k> or will be after 12.04
<bigcalm> Ok
<bigcalm> Ta
<ali1234> you'll know it works if you get the same answer
<bigcalm> That's tricky as I'm relying upon a file sent to me by the client that has encrypted it the vb.net way
<bigcalm> Hopefully diff will work on the 2 binary files
<ali1234> yeah but you can test it yourself on any input
<davmor2> occupy64k: all that means is the one paid dev with canonical won't be working on it solely and the community will need to step up and do the bit he was doing,  so it's basically the same
<occupy64k> indeed
<bigcalm> Is sha1('foo') the same as hash('sha1', 'foo') I wonder
<bigcalm> TESTING!
<bigcalm> Yes, phew!
<bigcalm> In the vb.net code, there's the line: key = password_derive_bytes.GetBytes(key_size_bits \ 8)
<bigcalm> I assume that \ 8 is not the same as / 8
<bigcalm> If that's the case, what is \?
<gord> ... divide?
<gord> divide bits by 8 to get bytes
<MartijnVdS> OLRLY
<bigcalm> Divide is /
<shauno> integer divide.  instead of real (float) divide
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> shauno: thank you, not something I was aware of
<shauno> eg, 5\8 is 1, not 0.something
<bigcalm> Right
<bigcalm> I think in PHP that would be 5 % 8
<shauno> % is modulus, the remainder
<bigcalm> Or not
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> int(5/8)
<bigcalm> Rather: (int)(5 / 8)
<bigcalm> Now to work out what .GetBytes() does :)
<bigcalm> After a cuppa tea!
<AlanBell> anyone want to try a hacky prototype of significant awesomeness http://paste.ubuntu.com/834248/
<AlanBell> pop that somewhere and run it with python, then right click launcher items and look at the quicklists
<AlanBell> you can now raise *one* window, that you intended to \o/
 * bigcalm thinks he would need to be running Unity
<AlanBell> it doesn't use signals properly and add and remove quicklists as windows come and go
<bigcalm> Didn't know you were a coder, AlanBell
<AlanBell> but it does mean I can now use unity
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I just play one on TV
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Saw the Doogie Howser Old Spice ad yesterday on youtube. Was amusing
<popey> dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: No such interface `(null)' on object at path /org/ayatana/bamf/matcher
<popey> AlanBell: ^
<AlanBell> hmm
<ali1234> same
<ali1234> AlanBell: are you on precise?
<AlanBell> yes
<ali1234> unity 5.2?
<AlanBell> yes
<ali1234> maybe i need to update
<AlanBell> unity 5.2.0
<AlanBell> but I am not using any new bits I think
<ali1234> well i have 400mb of updates to install
<AlanBell> don't suppose you have any apps running that don't have a .desktop file do you?
<ali1234> um, most of them?
<popey> i am up to date
<popey> i do
 * popey closes it
<popey> still barfs
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/834273/
<AlanBell> ah, that is helpful, thanks
<popey> np
<AlanBell> failing at the first hurdle :(
<mgdm> Computer fails to launch display, try running fglrx instead of radeon - it cannot comprehend I have 2 monitors. Remove fglrx, reinstall radeon, now it works
<mgdm> aaargh
<MartijnVdS> Yay ati
<mgdm> indeed
<AlanBell> popey: ali1234 can you let me know if this gives the error or a load of dbus.String output http://paste.ubuntu.com/834288/
<ali1234> No such interface `(null)' on object at path /org/ayatana/bamf/matcher
<AlanBell> ok, I think you don't have bamfdaemon running or something
<AlanBell> or it isn't talking on dbus
<ali1234> *boggle*
<popey> alan      2150  0.0  0.1 337456 13428 ?        Sl   07:13   0:06 /usr/lib/bamf/bamfdaemon
 * AlanBell runs out of clues and asks gord for help
<ali1234> what's that dbus browser called?
<AlanBell> d-feet
<ali1234> oh those updates are still installing :(
<AlanBell> I would do a screenshot of d-feet if I could still use the screenshot facility
<popey> printscreen?
<ali1234> i've used it before
<popey> or install shutter
<ali1234> just can't get it installed until the updates finish
<popey> shutter > gnome-screenshot
<popey> printscreen works fine here, just saves to Pictures folder
<AlanBell> popey: yeah, I have just been filing a bug, alt+prtscr takes the whole desktop
<popey> oh dear
<ali1234> yeah the screenshot thing is gone now :/
<ali1234> need to reboot for kernel update
<popey> works here
<popey> prtscr does whole desktop. alt does window
<AlanBell> plus alt+prtscr brings up the HUD :)
<popey> ah, i dont have hud installed
<popey> so hud is stealing the alt press then
<AlanBell> ah, maybe that is why
<bigcalm> Heretic!
<AlanBell> gord ^^
<AlanBell> gnome and canonical are ganging up to break things now :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: how does one get hud working
<ali1234> "bamfdaemon closed unexpectedly"
<popey> been doing that for 7 years
<popey> you install it from a ppa
<popey> once gord builds a new version
<czajkowski> I did that following the instructions in the orange netbook
<popey> 18:59:39 < popey> once gord builds a new version
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> sorry
<brobostigon> http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Devices/Huawei/Web_Cube/White very similer to the myfi.
<czajkowski> gord: if you could not break my machine while doing so that would be great
<popey> its bsaed on previous version of unity
<czajkowski> popey: how is the new laptop?
<ali1234> AlanBell: still no dice
<popey> czajkowski: love it
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/bamfdfeet.png
<czajkowski> popey: did you name it ?
<popey> yes, it's called "Deep Thought"
<popey> well, deep-thought
<czajkowski> hehe
<AlanBell> popey: I am using HUD and unity 5.2 I think
<AlanBell> just not the unity PPA with the "pressure" stuff and multi-monitor launchers
<ali1234> 5.2 doesn't support hud
<Myrtti> boo, if only I'd speak German, I could apply for a job for Spotify :-<
<ali1234> argh stupid overlay scrollbars
<popey> AlanBell: dunno how
<popey> ahh, not the hud ppa?
<AlanBell> alan@alanlaptop:~$ unity --version
<AlanBell> unity 5.2.0
<popey> well i did have hud, i upgraded and lost it
<AlanBell> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/unity-team/hud/ubuntu precise main
<AlanBell> actually I wonder when I last restarted unity
<popey> yeah
<popey> restart and you'll lose hud
<AlanBell> and bamfdaemon for that matter
<AlanBell> ok, I can reproduce the problem now :(
<czajkowski> AlanBell: oh that crashes for you too
<czajkowski> I'd really like the one on 1st login to go away, keep getting crash
<czajkowski> drives me a bit batty
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9CrDDX6i0E
<popey> what if you do it right at the top?
<ali1234> AlanBell: http://imagebin.org/197945
<ali1234> popey: it doesn't make any difference
<AlanBell> yeah, and you can right click and execute it, can't figure out why it stopped running from python
<ali1234> oh, someone already reported the scrollbar thing :)
<ali1234> which means i get to confirm it \o/
<ali1234> and post my video
<mgdm> Wooo, I get to reinstall Natty at the weekend
<AlanBell> ah yes, that one, you have to try to outwit the scrollbar to get to the resizer
<ali1234> yes, incredibly irritating that
<ali1234> it was bad enough in previous versions, it's even worse in precise
<ali1234> you cannot outwit it any more
<ali1234> because it appears anywhere on the edge
<AlanBell> also kind of hard to resize windows from the right edge now
<ali1234> feel free to hit "affects me too" on bug 907837
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 907837 in Ayatana Design "difficult to resize window with 12.04 overlay scrollbar" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907837
<AlanBell> popey: ali1234 http://paste.ubuntu.com/834375/
<AlanBell> dbus is now fussy about interfaces
<ali1234> seems to work !
<ali1234> it's messed up my nautilus windows though
<AlanBell> ooh :)
<ali1234> now i have a new icon i didn't have before, and the one at the top has no windows associated with it
<AlanBell> yeah, I have no idea what it is doing with nautilus
<ali1234> i think it doesn't register that nautilus == home folder
<ali1234> dunno
<ali1234> but this is pretty cool
<AlanBell> nautilus==desktop root window
<ali1234> well... f you say so
<AlanBell> maybe
<ali1234> if i click the home folder icon (default at the top) then i now always get a new window, and it registers under a new, different looking icon at the bottom
<ali1234> and also it isn't listed in the quicklist
<ali1234> does it even track new windows?
<AlanBell> no, not really
<ali1234> not at all :)
<AlanBell> it does something every second
<AlanBell> not quite sure what though
<AlanBell> however, there are dbus signals that it should listen to in order to track windows
<AlanBell> this is so nice I think I will finish it
<brobostigon> what does reconciled mean ?
<AlanBell> it means "checked off" against a bank statement or something
<AlanBell> so I have a reciept for Â£70 for petrol, there it is on my bank statement, that statement line is now reconciled
<brobostigon> i was refferring to https://tools.bitfolk.com/redmine/issues/93 i can make sense of,
<brobostigon> cant*
<AlanBell> they are not marking invoices as paid until they see it in the bank account
<brobostigon> even if it has left mine a week earlier.
<AlanBell> yeah, just means they have not got round to checking they have the money yet
<brobostigon> ah,.
<brobostigon> makes more sense now.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: because, the last few months, i have prodded andy, because i havent understood why, and give him a prod, on the day, my money would be due.
<brobostigon> as it didnt show on bitfolks admin panel.
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> I would relax about it
<brobostigon> i will now, now i know, that the panel doesnt reflect, when bitfolk have actually acknowleged the payment.
<Lozzy_uk> hi, anyone know of a LAN messaging client I can use on both linux & win plz? or two that talk to each other even...
<Azelphur> Lozzy_uk: afaik empathy or pidgin could do that
<brobostigon> bonjour, over xmpp, yes.
<Lozzy_uk> well I think I have the linux end figured for empathy
<Lozzy_uk> not sure what I'm supposed to use on the windoze end though
<brobostigon> Lozzy_uk: in empathy, it is the people nearby, account type.
<brobostigon> Lozzy_uk: in pidgin it is bonjour.
<Lozzy_uk> so I use pidgin on the windows side then I guess?
<brobostigon> that is what i would do,
<Lozzy_uk> ok brobostigon many thanks for the advice (and Azelphur)
<brobostigon> :)
<Azelphur> :)
<jacobw> evening
<zleap> evening
<diplo> Evening all
<jacobw> hey diplo
<diplo> 2 hours later, Cyagenmod installed \o/
<jacobw> \o/
<jacobw> ok, now i've cheered, i can tell you that miui is better :p
<diplo> miui ?
<diplo> And don't care so much now as i can just load from Clockwork
<diplo> :)
<jacobw> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=miui&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmiuiandroid.com%2F&ei=O-gyT6yIAYTK0QXlq_XBBw&usg=AFQjCNHxXPXc-QcnsBBrMArouKknOOfLYQ&cad=rja
<jacobw> fucking google links
<jacobw> http://miuiandroid.com/
<diplo> ta, taking a look now
<diplo> What do you say is the better part about it ?
<diplo> My phone not on there rom list
<bigcalm> !ohmy | jacobw
<lubotu3> jacobw: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<jacobw> much nicer look, better tools
<jacobw> bigcalm: i was starting to think i'd gotten away with it ;)
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Will have a read up on it to see if i can squeeze it on :)
<diplo> cheers, now it's rooted I'm happy to try anythinhg
<jacobw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iukILj3Rlqc
<jacobw> there might not be a rom available for your phone
<AlanBell> I think apt-add-repository is broken
<jacobw> how so?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/834505/
<AlanBell> dunno if it is just that ppa or the tool
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~onboard/+archive/snapshots
<jacobw> python 2.7 must be precise
<jacobw> i'd guess its the tool
<AlanBell> sudo apt-add-repository ppa:gwibber-daily/ppa
<AlanBell> that seems to work (or get further)
<AlanBell> hmm, maybe I need a launchpad support engineer
<jacobw> it seems unlikley that a broken ppa could be unknown and cause an unhandled crash
<AlanBell> does sudo apt-add-repository ppa:onboard/snapshot work for you (you don't need to install it, just see if it crashes, press ctrl+c if it works)
<DJones> AlanBell: Nope
<AlanBell> ok, thanks
<AlanBell> on precise?
<DJones> No, 11.10 http://pastebin.com/CV16JAyU
<AlanBell> ok, great, not a regression then
<DJones> Different error line numbers to your pastebin though
<AlanBell> yeah, same problem though, bad/missing json from lplib somewhere
<AlanBell> luckily we now have czajkowski to help with such issues
<DJones> yes
<diplo> jacobw, looks nice
<diplo> Going to take a look round and see what i can do
<AlanBell> DJones: I am a failure
<AlanBell> sudo apt-add-repository ppa:onboard/snapshots
<AlanBell> the final s is kind of important
<DJones> Heh
<AlanBell> ooh nasty crash during an update
<AlanBell> update of glibc no less :-/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: eh ?
<zleap> is there a specfic package i need for gamepads
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I though launchpad was broken, but it was user error
<czajkowski> ahh
<czajkowski> you mean you broke it ;)
<popey> yeah czajkowski, fix launchpad!
<AlanBell> no, I just fail at copying and pasting
<ali1234> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wbyyA9X4Qk
<czajkowski> popey: thats no 2 on my list of requests
<czajkowski> the #1 was get rid of bzr
<czajkowski> :/
<Azelphur> ali1234: looks pretty cool, seems similar to the N900 :)
<ali1234> (spark tablet, plasma active, mer)
<AlanBell> "add git support" would be better than "get rid of bzr" surely
<AlanBell> I would like launchpad to add documentation
<AlanBell> like github shows the README
<AlanBell> on launchpad we have overview, code, bugs, blueprints, translations, answers, but no "documentation"
<czajkowski> AlanBell: nods on both those things
<ali1234> Azelphur: it's quite a bit bigger than an N900
<directhex> moo
<czajkowski> MOOOOOOO
<zleap> capello has quit as england manager
<Azelphur> ali1234: indeed
<zleap> hmm  game pad no longer works on either computer
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Blogging Tips - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/08/blogging-tips/
<AlanBell> that is two REISUB lockups today, both with the mouse on the left edge of a screen trying to get the launcher out . . .
<popey> i leave mine out...
<popey> <punchline>
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-09
<AlanBell> wow, the model-m theme is looking awesome in onboard trunk :)
<AlanBell> and it works too
<popey> does it clack?
<AlanBell> nope, file a bug ;)
<AlanBell> and attach a recording
<popey> ok!
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/onboard/+filebug
<popey> AlanBell: where'd you get that? is there a ppa?
<zeb84> hiya lads
<zeb84> just upgraded to 12.04 and now i have problem with iplayer. it stops playing after few minutes. was alright in 10.04.
<popey> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
<czajkowski> hmm chrome is being troublesome this morning
<czajkowski> wont launch
 * popey hugs firefox
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: there's a new version out (17), maybe that's what's causing the problem
<czajkowski> hmmI can right click and launch a new window
<popey> middle click
<popey> (the launcher)
<christel> good morning lovelies
<popey> pip pip
<DJones> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> hellos
<czajkowski> popey: ahh that fixed it
<AlanBell> popey: sudo apt-add-repository ppa:onboard/snapshots
<popey> OK
<oimon> anyone using opendns? it was up the spout for me today
<popey> wooo, bamfdaemon crash, is that what you had yesterday AlanBell ?
<diplo> Morning all
<czajkowski> popey: yup and same here
<AlanBell> popey: no, I was just running an old version of it (and probably old version of dbus)
<AlanBell> my quicklists of awesome are still working
<popey> eek
<popey> lightdm wont accept my password
<popey> yet I can logon at the console
<MartijnVdS> popey: check /var/log/auth.log
<popey> some errors loading /lib/security/pam_unix.so
<MartijnVdS> scary
<MartijnVdS> what kind of error?
<popey> cant find the file
<popey> and indeed the file is missing
<popey> what package provides that?
<MartijnVdS> it's not on my system either
<popey> huh
<MartijnVdS> and I could log in
<popey> i just updated and logged out/in
<MartijnVdS> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/security/pam_unix.so
<MartijnVdS> it's there for me
<MartijnVdS> so maybe ldconfig will fix it for you
<MartijnVdS> ah wait
<MartijnVdS> !
<popey> i have that file too
<MartijnVdS> libc6 was upgraded, and it asked me to restart all PAM-using packages
<MartijnVdS> including the display manager
<popey> ah
<MartijnVdS> so rebooting or restarting lightdm should fix
<popey> that fixed it
<popey> ta
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<popey> scary moment âº
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm_lappy> Good morning peeps
<czajkowski> davmor2: you're up early
<mrevell> czajkowski, He's a fine looking gentleman at this time of morning.
<davmor2> czajkowski: Am working with your new boss :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> davmor2: dont torture him
<bigcalm_lappy> This is a room of people with bad backs today. These wooden chairs aren't the best for one's posture
<hoover> Good morning all
<mrevell> bigcalm_lappy, Choose a nick and stick with it.
<davmor2> mrevell: you're not here you are there I can point at you and all sorts
<mrevell> heh
<czajkowski> *grin*
<bigcalm_lappy> Ahem
<bigcalm_lappy> It means I'm not at home. Rather out and about annoying the wider community
<davmor2> czajkowski: wear your thermals when you are here next week it's quite cool
<JamesTait> Morning all!
<davmor2> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> davmor2: Are you cow-orking in Wolverhampton today?
<bigcalm_lappy> Moooooooooooooooo
<davmor2> Mooooooooooooooooooo
<mrevell> Working the udders now
<davmor2> we are now
<davmor2> JamesTait: we are indeed
<JamesTait> :)
<gord> i'm suddenly glad i skipped this one
<JamesTait> I really wish I'd joined you.
<JamesTait> My wife is studying psychology, and is writing up an experiment. What started out as "I just need you to help me with this equation" turned into a degree in statistics, crammed into 45 minutes.
<JamesTait> My brain feels like it wants to explode.
<mrevell> JamesTait, Heh, you should come next time :)
<Knightwise> good morning everyone
<JamesTait> mrevell: I probably should. I need to get a new car first though, which is dependent on the insurance companies getting their finger out.
<JamesTait> mrevell: BTW, I'm not sure if we've met in the flesh?
<mrevell> JamesTait, I'm not sure. I'm very short, if that helps you place me.
<mrevell> :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Brrrr
<JamesTait> mrevell: That'd place you somewhere lower than me, I expect. ;)
<bigcalm_lappy> I am bloody cold in here
<bigcalm_lappy> Maybe if I play minecraft the latop will heat up
<gord> launchpad timeout errors make gord mad, will become the gord hulk
<MartijnVdS> Whee, Arduino arrived
<MartijnVdS> + some basic stuff to connect it to/to it
<brobostigon> :)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: cool
<MartijnVdS> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10173
<MartijnVdS> that one
<bigcalm_lappy> mrevell wants a gimp
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: Has volunteered to be mrevell 's gimp this is getting ugly
<mrevell> I am disappointed by the level of conversation here.
 * AlanBell pokes bigcalm_lappy (to wake him up)
 * AlanBell is off to London in a sec with TheOpenSourcerer
<danfish> AlanBell: gonna snow later - you might have to stay over in london which would be an almighty shame given the number of pubs and bars ;)
 * bigcalm_lappy returns to the mess
<bigcalm_lappy> Should order lunch really
<gord> huh, the game company doublefine posted a kickstarter to raise money to make a game ... in what amounts to a morning they have raised $475,000
<popey> blimey
<MartijnVdS> guess: you'll never hear from the company again
<bigcalm_lappy> Heh
<gordonjcp> I wonder if I could post a kickstarter to get funding for my GPS tracking software
<bigcalm_lappy> We need more people to come to these work place days so that it warms up a little
<gord> no its a big company
<diplo> I've debated it, just quite a distance :)
<gord> they make big AAA games normally
<gord> very well respected, made from people who made the greatest line of games ever (lucasarts adventure games from the 90s)
<bigcalm_lappy> MI?
<gord> yup!
<gord> ron gilbert and tim shafer, best most funniest people in the entire world
<gord> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66710809/double-fine-adventure
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] On vendor prefixes in CSS and vendors implementing them - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/02/09/on-vendor-prefixes-in-css-and-vendors-implementing-them
 * bigcalm_lappy tries to get some work done while davmor2 is preoccupied with eating
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: normally it's you slowing us down as you try typing on my laptop
<bigcalm_lappy> I've learnt from my mistake. I will keep away from your weird hardware
<BigRedS> what can a laptop do to make it hard to type? natural keyboard?
<bigcalm_lappy> His keyboard is offset. The keys are not in the right locations
<BigRedS> oh lordy
<mgdm> I use a full-size wired Mac keyboard at work, which I get on fairly well with
<mgdm> the small Bluetooth version though does my head in
<oimon> anyone using dolphin browser on android? seems they are a bit cheeky
 * MartijnVdS uses Chrome on Android
<mgdm> proxying all traffic through their own boxes...?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: so does Opera
<DJones> Heh, not content with our emails & web history, google want our files now http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/09/google_to_launch_cloud_storage/ Depending on the storage space availble, I'd be tempted to use it
<mgdm> Yeah, I know
<oimon> it seems they were collecting browser history. tracken.dolphin-browser.com still apears in my traffic though
<oimon> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1319529
<bigcalm_lappy> With the noises that mrevell is making, one might think that it's cold in here
<gord> nice and warm in my office ;)
<bigcalm_lappy> Granddad is telling us stories now
<oimon> werthers ?
<brobostigon> eeek, the centre of tonights snow, is right above where i live, according to bbc weather on bbc news.
<popey> didnt think we were getting more snow
<brobostigon> bbc weather and the met office sites, both confirm snow for tonight,
<popey> great!
<bigcalm_lappy> brobostigon: where are you?
<brobostigon> bigcalm_lappy: almost the very most north point of oxfordshire, banbury.
 * oimon is eating love hearts "page me"? don't they mean BBM me? or write on my wall?
<popey> http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/uk_forecast_warnings.html?day=1
<ikonia> I would very much appreciate no snow
<ikonia> popey: ooh ping, 3g dongle ?
<popey> hmm?
<ikonia> 3g dongle you said you had spare that was linux friendly ?
<ikonia> (no sim, just the usb dongle)
<ikonia> I'd forgot about it until I just saw you
 * popey rummages
<directhex> i used to have one of those
<directhex> dunno where it is now
<popey> found it!
<popey> Bus 001 Device 006: ID 19d2:0031 ZTE WCDMA Technologies MSM MF110/MF627/MF636
<popey> its one of them
<ikonia> popey: as long as it's linux supported I'll be happy, and kiss you and give you cash/beer/donation to project
<oimon> disappointed to discover that linux is not a popular OS in the antarctic http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-an-monthly-201101-201201-bar
<diplo> Well it's all goverment sponsored really so you wouldn't think much else i guess
<oimon> not academic research?
<diplo> It's still subsidised by the goverment normally isn't it, from what I've read in the past
<diplo> or by big corps
<bigcalm_lappy> Can anybody explain what GetBytes() does in c#/c++/vb.net so that I might replicate it in PHP?
<mgdm> bigcalm_lappy: you asked me something about that last night
<mgdm> bigcalm_lappy: which I didn't get a chance to look at
<mgdm> bigcalm_lappy: however I guess there are many GetBytes() functions in various .NET classes, so you need to specify which
<BigRedS> bigcalm_lappy: doesnt' it take a list of characters and return their size were they encoded in unicode?
<BigRedS> from a brief look at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ydktsz9z.aspx which I suspect you've already read...
<oimon> " Most bases are small 15 people in winter, 50 in summer,"
<mgdm> like GetBytes() in an MD5 hasher will be different from GetBytes() in a file input stream or something
<bigcalm_lappy> One moment
<bigcalm_lappy> GetBytes() in this: https://raw.github.com/mono/mono/master/mcs/class/corlib/System.Security.Cryptography/PasswordDeriveBytes.cs
<bigcalm_lappy> That is the mono version of this http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.security.cryptography.passwordderivebytes.aspx
<BigRedS> what filesystem does unetbooting want my usb stick to be?
<BigRedS> aha, fat32
<oimon> does anyone know how this "if you want to lose weight try diet HCG" spam gets onto fb?
<oimon> i've seen a lot in a few days but nobody ever knows what they clicked
<MartijnVdS> oimon: probably some "See <popular artist>'s naked pics"
<MartijnVdS> or superbowl-related somethings
<BigRedS> Heh. I've not even finished the installer and I've already registered on Fedora's bugtracker
<diplo> What you using fedora for? Just to see difference ?
<BigRedS> yeah. I'm trying to force myself back into trying out other distros
<BigRedS> And I keep being incredibly annoyed at everything that's 'wrong' in CentOS, so this might help
<diplo> We still run Centos 4.8 at work so I haven't had any *new* annoyances
<BigRedS> I don't even pay enough attention to know what current is. These are new machines, though, so I'd guess they're whatever's current stable
<BigRedS> there's only three of them so far
<diplo> heh, 6 something atm.. only had 1 server up so far with it. Trying to get our legacy app to work ok with it
<diplo> so we can move away from 4.8 which is EOL end of this month
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, we've a bunch of Lenny machines to do that to by, er, four days ago....
<diplo> :P
<oimon> MartijnVdS: my sister got it and she reckoned none of that type of stuff
<oimon> but only women were affected...
<czajkowski> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-February/034742.html  heads up for those on precise
<diplo> Anyone here use owncloud at all ?
<oimon> diplo: no but i'm following them and sparkleshare
<diplo> I've got one setup but not newest version, just interested about moving all my calendars/contacts away from google to my own box
<diplo> Seems it's in process but can't find if anyone has got it working yet
<oimon> is there a desktop client?
<diplo> Not got that far, installed and left it a few months ago after watching a LAS show
<diplo> Going to take a browse around now
<oimon> i use box.net and it's tedious
<oimon> because of the web client
<oimon> i can't upload a massive load of folders in bulk
<oimon> making it a bit useless
<diplo> I want everything on my server at home, or maybe eventually on my VPS
<diplo> So just seeing how well i can do all of this
<ali1234> how do i change my launchpad password?
<bigcalm_lappy> ali1234: mrevil has left for the day sorry
<ali1234> oh you have to go to https://login.launchpad.net/
<ali1234> which isn't directly linked from any of the account pages
<ali1234> ok this sucks
<ali1234> my lp password has been compromised
<ali1234> but in order to create a new one i have to make a stupid uppercase letter and number password
<ali1234> which means i'll never be able to remember the new password
<ali1234> and adds no security
<ali1234> so yeah i'll be reseting the password on a weekly basis from now on
<ali1234> either that or my new password is going to end in A1
<oimon> for real? somebody brute forced your lp account?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i use the same password on all bug trackers
<oimon> oic
<BigRedS> I love it when you're forced to use a subset of possible passwords in order to make it more secure than if you could have used the entire set
<ali1234> i just tried to make an account on a bugzilla
<ali1234> but i accidentally typed password in the username field
<oimon> why not make an evil long password and use keeppass or a browser to remember it for you?
<ali1234> so now everyone on that bugzilla knows my password that i use for bugtrackers all over the place
<lmontrieux> ali1234, oimon, keepassx can also generate a random password for you
<oimon> lmontrieux: yes, true
<lmontrieux> ali1234, you can also use lastpass, if you're a firefox user
<ali1234> because i wipe my computer every 6 months when i reinstall ubuntu
<lmontrieux> ali1234, no problem, just store your keepass database on a USB drive or Dropbox or something
<BigRedS> that's still a bit less ideal than just knowing the password
<ali1234> that's such a massive amount of hassle
<mrevell> bigcalm_lappy, davmor2: Little bit warmer here...
<ali1234> then i need to take the ub drive everywhere i go
<ali1234> and not lose it
<ali1234> and i need to install keepass on every computer i ever use
<bigcalm_lappy> mrevell: I think I feel a little warmer
<lmontrieux> BigRedS, sure, but it allows you to have a different password for every single service you use, which is a huge benefit, in terms of security
<ali1234> including the ones that have no gui
<BigRedS> lmontrieux: I already do that without having to also have all of them written down on every computer I use
<mrevell> bigcalm_lappy, You get warmer just as hypothermia sets in, I believe.
<bigcalm_lappy> Haha
<lmontrieux> ali1234, for a CLI solution, you might want to have a look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/kpcli/ (haven't tried it myself)
<BigRedS> You just need a system for concocting them, and it's annoying when it's broken by somewhere insisting that actually they'd rather *less* entropy int he password thankyouverymuch
<ali1234> oh great, no i need to manage two password databases?
<ali1234> BigRedS: exactly
<lmontrieux> ali1234, no, both can read the same database
<ali1234> ah well, maybe nobody saw it
<ali1234> i'll just get the admin to delete that account and carry on using this password :)
<ali1234> hurrah for security hteatre
 * BigRedS looks for it
<BigRedS> yeah, it's annoying when bugtrackers go the way of banks...
<davmor2> mrevell: :P
<davmor2> mrevell: you are just a big girlie wuss
<ali1234> i don't think bugzilla even shows username anyway
<ali1234> i don't know why it even asks you for one
<ali1234> you can't even change your email anyway
<mrevell> davmor2, We'd have been sent home from school at those temperatues...
<bigcalm_lappy> Time to go home :(
<bigcalm_lappy> Time to go into the warm :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Toodles
<osiris_> MooDoo: :( I bet you have had a good afternoon heh
<smittix> My website has been down 6 hours now :(
 * bigcalm gets home - time to start work
<gord> if my website was down, i wouldn't notice for weeks
<BigRedS> yeah, nobody noticed mine go down for a few days a few months back
<popey> i might set my webcam up to monitor snowfall
<gord> does it work well at night?
<popey> yeah, streetlight illuminates our garden
<gord> hadny
<gord> handy*
<smittix> gord: Im noticing as im getting tons of DM's on twitter
<mikeatvillage> Hi. How can I force networking to reload, at the command prompt?
<BigRedS> mikeatvillage: what problem are you trying to solve?
<BigRedS> historically /etc/init.d/networking restart
<BigRedS> but I don't know if that works in modern ubuntus
<gord> in modern ubuntus: sudo restart networking
<mikeatvillage> I've tried that but to no effect. If my ADSL router goes off, my machine loses the wireless connection. This is a bare Ubuntu Server 10.04 - no Gnome.
<BigRedS> mikeatvillage: what're you using to establish the connection?
<BigRedS> you'll need to monitor the connection and re-establish it when it goes away
<BigRedS> unless whatever you're using is supposed to be doing that, in which case it just needs fixing
<mikeatvillage> I manually configured /etc/networks/interfaces with the wlan0 details, it loads on boot.
<BigRedS> yeah, so you can do   ifdown wlan0 ; ifup wlan0    to reestablish the connection
<BigRedS> but it wont do that automatically
<mikeatvillage> I'll try that (but think I already did) brb.
<popey> also the snow reflects the light so it looks better then
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam
<mikeatvillage> BigRedS: it goes down OK, but doesn't come back up with 'ifconfig wlan0 up' No error message.
<mikeatvillage> BigRedS: My deepest apologies, completely misread your post. Yes, that works perfectly.
<BigRedS> mikeatvillage: nothing in syslog?
<BigRedS> aha
<BigRedS> i'd probably cron a script which pings something and does the ifdown and ifup if it fails. I'm sure there's a more elegant way
<mikeatvillage> now to make a cron job to check it and a script to start it if needed :-)
<mikeatvillage> Haha... our posts crossed in the ether :-)
<gord> tried to point my webcam outside, nothing doing :(
<gord> i should get a really bright light and put a filter over it that blocks all but infra red, then point that outside with an infred filter on the webcam
<smittix> Anyone know of a good uk VPS provider?
<smittix> I think I will be moving after this escapade.
<Azelphur> smittix: who you with currently, what are your requirements
<popey> smittix: bitfolk
<Azelphur> ^ probably, but answer above first  just to be sure
<smittix> Azelphur: Currently with HeartInternet.
<smittix> Currently have a VPS with unmetered bandwidth 1gb RAM 50GB Disk
<smittix> Similar would be good. ÃÃ25 quid a month that costs. So it's pretty cheap.
<Azelphur> smittix: says on the website that only costs Â£11.99 :o
<Azelphur> smittix: bitfolk is good though, if you are happy with UK hosting and can afford it
<smittix> Sorry thats right, Id just been reading another site and had that price in my head heh
<smittix> Azelphur: I only went with heart because the data center is down the road from me heh
<smittix> I'll have a look at bitfolk
<Azelphur> hehe
<smittix> 6 hours it's been down now
<smittix> Last update on their service status page was at 1:30pm so it's probably been longer.
<ali1234> http://imgur.com/RNniD
<jacobw> :)
<aquarius> smittix: bytemark are excellent
 * jacobw uses bytemark
<smittix> Evening
<popey> pip pip
 * smittix is majorly frustrated now.
<ali1234> those 10 day videos i uploaded to youtube failed to convert :)
<ali1234> it had a good go though... only failed after a day or so
<AlanBell> wow
<bigcalm> 10 days of what?
<bigcalm> Hi peeps btw :)
<directhex> bigcalm: rick astley
<bigcalm> Nice :D
<bigcalm> mrevell: how the phone?
<mrevell> bigcalm, Heeeeey
 * bigcalm feels toasty warm, it's lovely :D
<mrevell> bigcalm, This is the first time I've sat down since finishing work, so no progress.
<bigcalm> Did you manage to get any work done?
<mrevell> bigcalm, Yes, thank the lord. I'm about to do some more. I'll remind davmor2 of the bit after the co- in co-working :)
<mrevell> hehe
<mrevell> Peoples of the internet: what's a good music player that scrobbles? Happy to try anything; prefer notification integration.
<BigRedS> mrevell: I think rhythmbox does
<popey> banshee does too
<mrevell> Yeah, Rhythmbox is my player of choice really. Just wondered if there was anything else out there. I've played around with Clementine, and the one that started as an Amarok clone.
<mrevell> Yeah, Banshee's much more stable for me than it used to be.
<BigRedS> I've just realised how long it's been since I last used anything other than spotufy
<popey> Yeah, me too
<Azelphur> TwistedCat makes TF2 updates look so smooth on my IRC channel lol, http://pastebin.com/QQvR8WVK \o/
<bigcalm> It would be nice to use the new Spotify
<ali1234> it would be nice if the linux version didn't crash more than the windows version in wine
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggg3C87UVCY
<ali1234> coal, gas, oil, ... what are the other three?
<popey> fission?
<ali1234> not a fossil fuel
<bigcalm> popey: cute
<popey> bigcalm: sexy
<bigcalm> -o/
<bigcalm> WTF?
<bigcalm> Keyboard now in weird mode
<popey> !away Lcawte|Away
<bigcalm> Yep, shift + , = Z
<popey> BAH!
<bigcalm> Time to restart synergy
<bigcalm> <> That's better
<bigcalm> As I was saying
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> I am writing a VB.NET service app. I feel exceedingly dirty
<ali1234> why don't you just run it in mono
<bigcalm> Because it is going to be running on a Windows server
<ali1234> why are you even rewriting it at all then?
<bigcalm> I don't know mono, I'm cobbling together vb.net examples to do get this working
<bigcalm> The original script I was given was in vb.net. It does the encryption correctly and I haven't been able to replicate it in PHP
<bigcalm> Either I a) had my linux server create the encrypted file which then got ftp'd to a windows server or b) send a message over a VPN to the Windows server to an application which will create the encrypted file
<bigcalm> Either way, the encrypted file needs to be on the windows server which then transports it elsewhere
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-10
<bigcalm> It works!
<bigcalm> I sleep!
<zleap> ok
<directhex> windows for servers? lolz
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Video Demo - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/10/ubuntu-accomplishments-video-demo/
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<mattt> morning morning
<daubers> o/
<diplo> oimon, gitorious.org/owncloud has a Android App
<diplo> Will take a look later and let you know!
<gord_> hrm, dejadup really can't do backups over ssh without asking for your password
<gordonjcp> gord: ssh keys?
<gord> gordonjcp, yup
<oimon> diplo: cool
<oimon> i'm on u1 for the tomboy sync, but my job changes as of monday and i may be working a lot from laptop a lot and need cloud sync
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<aspirin> hi
<brobostigon> hi
<s-fox> hi
<brobostigon> hi
<oimon> hi#
<oimon> doh
<brobostigon> moo
<oimon> you're up early brobostigon
<aspirin> anyone could help how to sync epub books from ubuntu to ipad?
<brobostigon> oimon: it is 10am, i normally come on about this time dont i. ?
<oimon> brobostigon: i realise i am time shifting today cos my train was excessively delayed
<oimon> i'm thinking its 9am
<brobostigon> oimon: ah, i see, :(
<oimon> could be my last day here for a long while
<brobostigon> why ?
<oimon> got pulled onto another department for a bit
<diplo> Got it installed and logged into my local owncloud
<diplo> Can't see it does much yet though
<diplo> :)
<oimon> won't have much privacy or spare time
<gord> aspirin, best thing i can suggest is calibre
<brobostigon> oimon: eeek, good luck.
<gord> no idea if it works with ipads
<oimon> yeah brobostigon no extra moneys or aything
<brobostigon> oimon: :(
<aspirin> oh right i remember usinit in windows, thanks alot
<oimon> guys, have a question about those scammers who ring up "you have a virus on your PC, press super-R"
<oimon> my mum admitted she'd spoken to them. she says she didn't give credit card details - what else do they try and do?
<daubers> They might try and get you to install something nasty, or go to a nasty filled website
<oimon> she told them she had antivirus, but i'm not sure if she knows exactly what happened on the PC (i.e. did she give remote acecss to someone)
<popey> they usually ask you to go to event viewer and just read out some numbers
<popey> most of them dont actually get you to install stuff
<popey> they just want you to pay for their stuff
<DJones> oimon: They tried to get my dad to connect to a website which would give them remote desktop so they could run a scanner
<oimon> popey: thanks, that tallies with something i'm reading on another site - she remembers that they said windows key+R
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSFRtPus3DQ&feature=plcp&context=C3e52416UDOEgsToPDskJvZXCmlPIPvCP4Www6VdmK
<popey> guy managed to record the call and screencast what the guy was getting him to do
<popey> kids school is closed so they're home today
<oimon> popey: unity :D
<popey> oimon: hmm?
<oimon> the guy is on ubuntu with win VM :D
<oimon> wasn't expecting that
<popey> ah âº
<popey> he does lots of ubuntu videos
<gord> hrm, i screwed up the dash code and made the dash about 18 pixels high. been using it like that for the past day and i must say, does pretty well for not being able to see the results, the first one is almost always what i wanted
<gordonjcp> heh
<JamesTait> Oh, and good morning, world! Happy Friday! :)
<popey> YES!
<bigcalm> Yay Friday
<gord> boo, wish it was wednesday
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<webpigeon_laptop> ls
<webpigeon_laptop> whoops x.x
<kirrus> gord: why, are you going on holiday?
<gord> nope
<kirrus> webpigeon_laptop: better than typing your password into a screen you think is locked :/
<gord> feature freeze next week
<webpigeon_laptop> kirrus: very true :P
<kirrus> gord: cool. Do you know where the discussion on replacing mysql with maria went in the end?
<gord> no idea
<webpigeon_laptop> kirrus: although have done that before - Luckly a text editor had focus
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> how does things?
<popey> I do not know. how does things andylockran ?
<webpigeon_laptop> Hey andylockran, things does good :), yourself?
<andylockran> thigns does good with me
<andylockran> aside from my typing, which seems a bit out
<andylockran> anyone use the symfony framework?
<diplo> andylockran, I think bigcalm or BigRedS do
<diplo> Whoever runs myrant.net :)
 * diplo forgets
<popey> bigcalm
 * bigcalm looks up
<bigcalm> Ah, yes, hello from Symfony land :D
<bigcalm> Wow, somebody remembered that I run myrant.net? :D
<bigcalm> andylockran: sup?
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<czajkowski> davmor2: in 2 days in a row early
<bigcalm> davmor2: I gave up with PHP, now coding in vb.net
<davmor2> czajkowski: only  a few minutes
<davmor2> bigcalm: Quitter :P
<czajkowski> bigcalm: go straight to the naughty step, vb!
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I've never felt so dirty in my whole career
<czajkowski> bigcalm: consider yourself moved to the step fr good mister!
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> It's crowded on here
<BadgerUK> hello!
<BadgerUK> im trying to follow the instructions, create bash script, into bin
<BadgerUK> ive pasted the script into an empty file in kate
<BadgerUK> now im trying to save into bin
<BadgerUK> but presumably i dont have permission
<BigRedS> BadgerUK: what're 'the instructions' and do you know which 'bin' you're putting them in?
<BigRedS> it should normally be the bin in your home directory
<BadgerUK> http://blog.deadlypenguin.com/blog/2011/05/03/using-meld-with-git-diff/
<BigRedS> that one you'll have permissions to write to
<BadgerUK> yeah the one in hme directory
<bigcalm> BadgerUK: if it doesn't have to be a system wide script, you could set up a bin directory in your home dir. Include the path in your .bashrc
<BigRedS> yeah, stick it in ~/bin
<BigRedS> bigcalm: ~/bin is in put into $PATH if it exists
<bigcalm> BigRedS: goodo
<BadgerUK> k, i am unable to paste anything into /bin or save
<bigcalm> Yes, use the bin dir in your home directory
<bigcalm> If it doesn't exist, create it
<bigcalm> Note that ~/ is a shortcut to your own home dir
<BadgerUK> aha
<BadgerUK> im from a windows background if u hadnt already guessed :'(
<bigcalm> For me, cd ~/ puts me in /home/iain
<bigcalm> We have to start somewhere :)
<BadgerUK> lol
<bigcalm> Also, please note that filenames and directory names are case sensitive in Linux
<BadgerUK> so the bash script is in my bin in my home directory, now im goign to change my git config to use the script
<BadgerUK> how does the git config file know the bash script is in my home bin?
<BadgerUK> instructions are: [diff]
<BadgerUK> external = git-meld
<bigcalm> You'll also want to chmod the script so that you can run it without having to call it with sh
<BadgerUK> i think i know how to do that from playing with py exe
<BadgerUK> the external bit in external = git-meld. How does that know where external is?
<ormiret> I think external will be the name it is using to refer to an external program. The git-meld part will be what it needs to find. If it uses a normal environment to run the external command then it will search all the directories in your PATH environment variable for that command (and should find it in ~/bin)
<BadgerUK> ah
<BadgerUK> thanx guys
<BadgerUK> one day, many months from now; i'll be able to use linux aswel as windows
<gord> awww, mark didn't put real <blink> tags in his post
<popey> âº
 * bigcalm prods andylockran 
<BadgerUK> k, so i made a bash script called git-meld.sh, made it executable, put in it in ~/bin, updated my git config file to [diff] external = git-meld, and then tried git diff
<BadgerUK> i get the following error $ git diff
<BadgerUK> error: cannot run git-meld: No such file or directory
<BadgerUK> and as stated, im trying to follow these instructions http://blog.deadlypenguin.com/blog/2011/05/03/using-meld-with-git-diff/
<BadgerUK> how do i specify the path for that script?
<kirrus> BadgerUK: try renaming git-meld.sh to 'git-meld'
<BadgerUK> in bin?
<kirrus> aye
<BadgerUK> cheers
<BadgerUK> will it keep its exectuable status if i change it?
<BadgerUK> it didn't work
<BadgerUK> same error
<BadgerUK> error: cannot run git-meld: No such file or directory
<bigcalm> BadgerUK: if you open a terminal and run this, what do you get? echo $PATH
<BadgerUK> /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games
<BadgerUK> what purpose does path serve?
<bigcalm> iain@revo:~$ echo $PATH
<bigcalm> /home/iain/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games
<bigcalm> Mine includes the bin dir in my home dir
<BadgerUK> but why have $PATH; is it like a shortcut area for programs to use?
<bigcalm> It is the list of dirs that will be looked in (in order) for a given command
<BadgerUK> cool
<BadgerUK> thank you
<BadgerUK> big help xxx
<andylockran> back in 5
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - Just got a letter from son's school. Tickets for Saracens vs Quins at Wembley (Â£15 adults and Â£5 kids). Looks like a good day out :-)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: your kids go to school today?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah
<TheOpenSourcerer> No probs.
<popey> ours didnt, school closed
<TheOpenSourcerer> WTF?
<TheOpenSourcerer> There was only an inch or so of snow
<popey> yeah
<popey> its at the bottom of a hill, snow makes it somewhat annoying âº
<AlanBell> popey: no kids here
<bigcalm> Somebody has been able to insert a google ads script into a client's WordPress theme. As I've got the account id for the google ads account, is it possible to report this to Google somehow?
<kirrus> bigcalm: http://www.abuse.net/lookup.phtml?domain=google.com
<bigcalm> Ah, ta
<BigRedS> y
<BigRedS> whoop. Wrong pane
<kirrus> BigRedS: seems to be going around today
<gord> hrm, new gpu did not come with a little screw to screw it in... i'm sure it will be fine not screwed down.. yeah
<popey> until you wibble the dvi port
<popey> and it pops out of the pcie slot and locks the machine
 * smittix is back to normal woo
<gord> popey, well the last gpu that i've had for about two years never got overly wibbled, so maybe it'll be okay ;)
<czajkowski> dear software center why must you crash when I want to install items, not making my day run smoothly!
<bigcalm> czajkowski: time to change to linux mint
<czajkowski> I only have mints after dinner
<popey> filed a bug czajkowski ?
<czajkowski> popey: aye just about to do so, kept happening last night in the middle of CC meeting with chrome crashing and trying to install FF
<popey> firefox should be installed by default
<popey> also, if you have removed firefox chances are you have probably removed ubuntu-desktop, so may be missing other good stuff
<davmor2> czajkowski: add you ~/.cache/software-center.log to the report
<czajkowski> aye I suaully remove it tbh
<czajkowski> hmm it crashed saying didnt install FF but actually did
<popey> bet if you run "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^" (with the caret, without the quotes) it pulls in loads of stuff
<bigcalm> Oh, hello mr snow
<czajkowski> popey: ahh ok will try that
<czajkowski> 115 packages to install
<czajkowski> lovely!
<popey> now.. don't remove firefox âº
<czajkowski> I know.... I just don't like it, it's in the same category as green veggies, I'll eat em if forced!
<popey> dont use it then?
<popey> I have loads of stuff installed i never use
<czajkowski> popey: aye, I'm just a lil odd in my organising of my machine, i tend not to have things installed that I don't use.  but tis back now so hopeully things wont keep crashing
<popey> well its not that firefox was missing that was the problem, its that it takes out ubuntu-desktop which is annoying
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/stats-show-ubuntu-not-losing-ground-to-linux-mint/
<popey> made me smile
<andylockran> bigcalm: why the prod?
<ali1234> popey: they don't mention that in jan 2011 ubuntu had 33M hits in those statistics
<ali1234> and therefore unity drove away  around 10% of ubuntu's users by their own metric
<czajkowski> popey: aye tis rather unfortunate it removes the others, but lesson learnt
<popey> i dont believe the growth would be linear ali1234
<ali1234> if it was linear i could just look at the october result and say it drove away 50% of users
<popey> i dont believe it's as simple as that
<ali1234> what is it then?
<TheOpenSourcerer> One other interesting thing to note is the number of 10.04, 10.10 visits vs 11.10 (why no 11.04?) Anyway - stats are easy to interpret however you want to ;-)
<ali1234> probably because 11.04 was shockingly bad?
<popey> I am not drawing any conclusions from those numbers at all
<popey> it just made me smile
<popey> there's too many variables involved
<ali1234> i would be surprised if anyone was still using it the week after 11.10 was released
<popey> but the number of ubuntu users (I believe) doesn't waver around in the millions per month
<ali1234> i think there is an extremely high amount of churn
<ali1234> with all operating systems
<ali1234> the question is only do people churn in faster than they churn out?
<popey> amongst a certain set of the echo chamber of geeks on the internet, maybe
<ali1234> no, it's more like "among anyone under the age of 25"
<ali1234> considering that linux, by those stats, is still 0.5%
<davmor2> ali1234: we get it you don't like unity, there are also loads of people that do, you can't base everything on your opinion,  the most interesting thing I see from the stats is both projects got additional hits which is good for Linux as a whole
<ali1234> davmor2: ubuntu didn't get additional hits, they are down 10% since this time last year. that's a fact demonstrated by the stats, not my opinion
<sagaci> stats of one site
<sagaci> must be legit
<ali1234> anyway, as i was saying, if 1 in 10 computer owners tries out ubuntu for 1 month each year, that's 0.5% already
<AlanBell> well it is a somewhat better site than distrowatch to base stats on!
<ali1234> so as you can see, it doesn't take very much *constant* users to keep these statistics at the current level
<ali1234> and there is no way to measure how long people stay for
<ali1234> perhaps you could count the number of distro upgrades somehow
<ali1234> probably not accurate tho, i know i like to do a fresh install rather than upgrades
<TheOpenSourcerer> Someone should write a "phone home" app for the Linux kernel ;-)
<popey> i think we do count distro upgrades
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: been suggested by a lot of people over the years
<TheOpenSourcerer> I _was_ joking.
<popey> they werent
<gord> i'd like to write a firefox survey like thing for ubuntu sometime
<gord> would be very useful
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone ever come across any Open Source Physical Security Software systems? i.e. for building access etc.
 * bigcalm shivers his way back into the channel
<ali1234> gord: like test pilot? that's what i was saying the other day...
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: No commercial ones
<TheOpenSourcerer> I found this, which suggests not, as the author is an "expert" and this is less than 12months old. :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Phwoar... http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/2012/02/10/how-to-make-british-indian-restaurant-bir-style-onion-bhajis/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I love onion bhajis :-D
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: The various hackspaces have ones, but not off the shelf type things
<davmor2> mrevell: by the way bzr add has fixed everything I am once again a happy bunny
<mrevell> davmor2, Great!
<ali1234> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amam7h6Tso0TdDl5UGtHempRWkRtQUhNRnVhOXp3ZlE#gid=0
<davmor2> mrevell: out of interest is there a nice overview somewhere of all the commands?  By nice I mean not man-esque
<mrevell> davmor2, Not sure. otp just now.
<davmor2> haha I would be more surprised if you weren't :)
<ali1234> i must admit that even i didn't expect that strong of a trend
<popey> ali1234: didnt we have a bug in firefox recently where we were mis-identifying ourselves?
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> what was it misidentifying as?
<popey> pretty sure we went for a while with linux in the UA but missed the ubuntu release or something
<popey> i cant remember the details
<popey> but it made it harder to identify ubuntu users as a result, which _could_ be a contributing factor to the stats being skewy
<popey> *shrug*
<ali1234> unless that bug was for pretty much all the 10.04 release, it doesn't look good
<popey> bug 709125
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 709125 in AptUrlRedirector "User agent doesn't include Ubuntu in it so apt.ubuntu.com doesn't work" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709125
<popey> hmm
<ali1234> looks like that was fixed before release?
<popey> not sure thats the one
<popey> meh
<Josssse> Hey. I'm trying to configure keyboard shortcuts for xubuntu. Does anyone know the commands for volume controlling?
<ali1234> still doesn't explain the unprecidented amount of users clinging to 10.04 :)
<diplo> It's an LTS maybe ?
<diplo> I still run 10.04 on my revo as it works well
<hamitron> LTS is my only reason ;)
<ali1234> ah yeah 9.04 wasn't a LTS
<hamitron> pure laziness :/
<ali1234> i wonder why they don't have stats for 9.10
<ali1234> also notice that the recent upswing in the last few months appears to be caused almost entirely by 10.04 users
<hamitron> upswing?
<ali1234> hamitron: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amam7h6Tso0TdDl5UGtHempRWkRtQUhNRnVhOXp3ZlE#gid=0
<hamitron> ty
<ali1234> there is a lot of data missing. it's very unscientific
<ali1234> but a swing like that isn't random error
<hamitron> isn't 11.10 supported till around the same date as 10.04, but with newer software?
<ali1234> no?
<hamitron> 3 years for 10.04
<hamitron> thought it was 18 months for others
<ali1234> 5 years for LTS, 2 years for the rest, except for some packages which are 6 months
<hamitron> 3 years for LTS on the desktop
<popey> 5 now
<hamitron> oh, nice
<popey> (for 12.04)
<hamitron> but for 10.04 it is 3 still?
<popey> i think so
<ali1234> also the main difference between 10.04 and 11.10 is 10.04 has gnome 2, 11.10 has unity or gnome shell
<hamitron> 11.10 is up-to-date too
<diplo> popey, what are you running ony our revo's now ?
<diplo> I've debated about running XBMC's new XBMCuntu
<ali1234> i don't trust my html scraper tbh
<ali1234> i might have to recompile these numbers by hand
<hamitron> but for someone who wants ubuntu on a desktop, most will choose the one with the latest software if they are supported till the same time..... is my point
<ali1234> well that's not what these statistics say
<jpds> There are lies, damned lies and statistics.
<ali1234> will be interesting to see what happens in 2013 :)
<hamitron> I'm sort of interested in 12.04 again now
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> 5 years support is ace
<ali1234> do you even have any computers that can run it?
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> I got maybe 5 or 6
<ali1234> maybe you could make a cluster to network render the UI
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> well, nothing to stop me using slower machines as thin clients?
<ali1234> uh... nothing except accelerated graphics are required
<hamitron> oh
<ali1234> unless you want to use -2d
<ali1234> or gnome shell fallback
<hamitron> well, I may upgrade
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I've already decided older machines are staying on something different for now
<hamitron> as there is no point trying to get something like ubuntu working on machines it is not targeted for
<hamitron> so what gpu will it need?
<ali1234> a fast one with open source drivers
<ali1234> ie one that doesn't exist
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> wonder why 8.04 has an increase
<ali1234> that's probably in line with random error
<ali1234> the 10.04 increase is much bigger
<ali1234> i'm wondering more why the last row is messed up
<hamitron> that too
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: You missed out quite an important "b" in your 15:09 post! I thought "Nah. They wouldn't possibly call it THAT".
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Oopos
<diplo> on your*
<diplo> and I'm sure that's what they called it, maybe im wrong
<diplo> :P
<hamitron> time for tea and cakes
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> brb
<popey> diplo: xbmc on both my revos
<diplo> yeah what version OS ?
 * ali1234 posts charts on omgubuntu and waits for the inevitable flamewar
<popey> ali1234: you've seen the bit at the top of http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm
<popey> about data loss
<ali1234> to mobile sites
<ali1234> oh, also 7% loss?
<popey> ya
<ali1234> that still doesn't account for the 50% drop in hits :)
<popey> heh
<popey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/firefox/8.0+build1-0ubuntu0.11.10.3
<popey> * Modify the UA string to add "Ubuntu" to the platform component
<ali1234> was that also broken in natty?
<ali1234> cos that would explain a lot
<popey> i don't know
<ali1234> it still doesn't explain the growth in 10.04 though
<ali1234> did some government do 1 million installs or something?
<popey> ali1234: yeah, it's an interesting question
<popey> the popularity of 10.04 doesn't entirely surprise me
<popey> will 10.04 be our xp âº
<ali1234> it was an extremely good release
<ali1234> heh, yeah
<popey> was 11.04 our vista, and 12.04 our 7 ?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> i think there's still a way to go and a few more u-turns to be made
<popey> haha
<popey> what kinds of u-turns?
<popey> switching to GNU/Hurd
<ali1234> nah, just individual design decisions
 * popey notes some might take offence at 'u-turn' and might prefer 'design iteration' ;)
<ali1234> unity isn't really that bad, just some small parts of it are incredibly annoying. like the way overlay scrollbars are implemented, and the way window switching works
<ali1234> i mean a really good design you don;t even notice it
<ali1234> that's why people have such a hard time explaining why they don't like unity, and just engage in flamewars instead
<ali1234> those people obviously aren't UI designers, so telling them to go away and make their own thing if they don't like it isn't really helpful
<ali1234> i actually like the always-hide thing
<ali1234> i mean it's hidden 99% of the time anyway
<ali1234> i'd like it to be less annoying to reveal it though
<AlanBell> that has changed
<ali1234> sensitivity on edge push and monitor edge crossing is too low
<AlanBell> it is always-show this week
<popey> today
<ali1234> sometimes it takes be 5 or 6 tries to get from one monitor to the other
<popey> yeah, like your mouse going through treacle between screens
<ali1234> yeah but you can configure always-hide or always-show
<ali1234> dodge was just too buggy
<AlanBell> not for long ...
<ali1234> well if they remove always hide I AM GOING TO QUIT FOREVER etc
<davmor2> ali1234: you can increase the sensitivity and then you don't hit it
<popey> #archlinux is â  that way
<ali1234> davmor2: how?
<AlanBell> I think the monitor divsion treacle things should not be there if I am dragging a window
<ali1234> AlanBell: yes absolutely agreed
<davmor2> ali1234: it is in system setting Appearance behaviour reveal sensitivity I got mine on high for my laptop due to the track pad and it is fine
<ali1234> assasasas
<AlanBell> I will try and finish the window quicklists thing this weekend, I think that will help a lot
<ali1234> a wild bug appears
<ali1234> davmor2: cool. that's new. it affects multimonitor edge resistance too it seems
<ali1234> still i'd much rather have the launcher on the left side of the left monitor and the right side of the right monitor
<davmor2> ali1234: not so sure about multi-monitor I don't have it setup
<ali1234> haha this dialogue is buggy
<ali1234> it says displays that "you are not using default settings" message only if you are using default settings
<davmor2> ali1234: you might want to keep your eyes open on that one as there might be more features thrown at it maybe,  I only noticed due to OMGubuntu :)
<ali1234> yeah lets hope so
<Josssse> Hello boys and girls. I'm trying to install ubuntuone. After I apt-get the installer, I run it and when I click on the "I already have an account!" link it does nothing. I see no "connect to ubuntu" window. Any ideas?
<popey> uhm
<popey> ubuntu one is installed by default on ubuntu
<popey> what are you installing it on?
<Josssse> I'm in xubuntu.
<popey> probably better off asking in #ubuntuone
<popey> thats where the developers hang out, and they're a nice bunch
<Josssse> The funny thing is that I did it simultanieously on my laptop and it works just fin.
<Josssse> Ahhh, thanks popey . Didn't know this channel existed.
<s-fox> Goodbye.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Amazing conclusions really: http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/02/10/west-coast/
<ali1234> oh jesus, now i'll need a paypal acct to pay my taxes?
<ali1234> DO NOT WANT
<hamitron> I'm sure they'll take your money off you any way they can
<hamitron> just make it harder to get refunds ;)
<diplo> evening all
<BigRedS> g'morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * MartijnVdS plays with the arduino
<cliftonts> hi all
<cliftonts> AlanBell: Just thought I'd check if you're stopping by this weekend and if so what day?
<mattt> omg it's col
<mattt> and i can't get my house to heat up fast enough
<mattt> *cold
<gordonjcp> METAR EGPF 102050Z 00000KT 6000 -DZ SCT012 BKN016 04/02 Q1032
<gordonjcp> :-)
<gordonjcp> clouds clearing, 4C
 * gordonjcp listens to the cheery WHUMP of some more dead dinosaurs being turned into heat
<BigRedS> I like to think there was something other than just gordonjcp involved in that translation
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: hm?
<BigRedS> from that all caps to "clouds clearing, 4C". I assumed the former inferred the latter in some way
<BigRedS> mostly because it began "MET"
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: METAR indicates it's a METAR report, EGPF is Glasgow Airport, 102050Z is 10th day of the month, 2050 Zulu time (GMT, near as)
<gordonjcp> 00000kt is no wind, 6000 is 6km visibility
<gordonjcp> -DZ I don't know offhand, SCT012 scattered clouds at 1200', BKN016 is broken clouds at 1600'
<BigRedS> ah, fair enough. I'll let you off
<BigRedS> ish
<MartijnVdS> ooh mr pilot man  ;)
<gordonjcp> 04/02 is 4C with 2C dew point, Q1032 is air pressure at the airfield (for setting altimeters)
<BigRedS> wait, the windspeed is padded so as to allow for over 10000 knots?
<gordonjcp> sorry, wrong way round
<gordonjcp> Q1032 is QNH, or air pressure at mean sea level
<gordonjcp> no, it has direction too
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<BigRedS> that'd be handy, too
<BigRedS> clearly they've thought this through :)
<gordonjcp> so if it was 27710KT it would be 10 knots at 277 degrees
<BigRedS> ah, right
<gordonjcp> -DZ is apparently "light drizzle"
<MartijnVdS> kelvin? fahrenus? Celsenheit?
<BigRedS> I've some perverse desire to go away and learn all this now...
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: direction
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: ah.. *stupid me* :)
<MartijnVdS> "there's a 277Â°C wind..."
 * MartijnVdS runs
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: it is a touch colder than 277K right now
<diplo> :P
<diplo> I can attest to that, bloody cold out there, can't get warm in this house tonight
<AlanBell> right, back to dbus and signals and callbacks
<czajkowski> AlanBell: add wine will all work then
<AlanBell> already had some pink stuff with bubbles in it
<DethSone> hey people!
<zleap> hi]
<DethSone> I have not used IRC in quite a while, how do I go about reg'ing my name on the server again?
<zleap> not sure on freenode
<DethSone> there's a command, but I forgot it
<DethSone> it requires a username, password and e-mail
<AlanBell> !register
<lubotu3> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<zleap> ah
<zleap> thanks
<DethSone> I can not be bothered to go to that link, could you please jus' type an example, but put a space before the example command so it doesn't work?
<zleap>    /msg nickserv register password_of_your_choice your@email.address
<zleap> then check e-mail
<DethSone> THANK YOU!
<zleap> np
<DethSone> :-)
<zleap>    /msg nickserv identify your_nickname your_chosen_password
<zleap> then use the above when you next come inor set ur client to do that automatically
<AlanBell> yay, callbacks work. QI time.
<DethSone> ah, the good ol' days, I remember doing that, like every day man!
<zleap> me too
<zleap> anyway welcome to irc and #ubuntu-uk
<DethSone> I'm only 17yrs old, but it has been about a year since I last used IRC
<zleap> cool
<zleap> its nice that in this age of text messaging, e-mail etc  irc is still popular
<DethSone> IRC is THE BEST form of online communication in my opinion
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> easier too,
<DethSone> so nice and standardized to use, and there are so many clients for it!, even ones for phones!
<zleap> DethSone, may also be interested in #ubuntu-youth,  which is kinda quiet but thats due to it needing more people
<zleap> yeah
<DethSone> you know what, once I reg this new nick, I will check out that chan
<zleap> ok
<DethSone> haha, the last time I was using IRC was when I was trolin' AnonOps network XD
<DethSone> good times
<zleap> i used irc back in 1995
<zleap> got auto kicked once for using caps by accident
<DethSone> haha, 1 yr after I was born!
<zleap> back in the early days of linux that too
<DethSone> IRC is so flexible, depending on the client of-course
<gordonjcp> 1995 wasn't the early days of Linux
<zleap> well 1991 was then
<zleap> early years then
<DethSone> IRC sure has gone a long way from a hacky terminal.
<zleap> its sitll useful having a console irc client
<zleap> just in case there are issues with the gui
<gordonjcp> by 1995 it was mainstream, and I'd moved on to NetBSD
<gordonjcp> zleap: I don't see the point in a GUI IRC client
<gordonjcp> irssi + screen
<zleap> ok
<gordonjcp> watch?
<gordonjcp> there, now I'm on my android tablet, sitting on my sofa
<zleap> i can use irc via ssh
<zleap> if i ssh into my other computers
<gordonjcp> zleap: yup
<DethSone> I dis-agree, I think the command line was really holding IRC back
<gordonjcp> I'm ssh'ed into one of my servers, which runs irssi inside screen
<gordonjcp> DethSone: really irssi is a GUI app
<DethSone> IRC is SOOOOOO much nicer to work with as a GUI
<gordonjcp> DethSone: in what way?
<DethSone> XChat is my fav IRC client, is also the most dominant, and it's obvious why.
<zleap> yeah but if your gui breaks, or in my case the other day didn't load due to ubuntu-desktop being removed, the only option would be to either log in elsewhere or use the console client
<gordonjcp> DethSone: it's not obvious to me...
<DethSone> consoles break too
<Azelphur> ^ wat
<Azelphur> I prefer GUI clients, but consoles break?
<gordonjcp> DethSone: if I use xchat, how can I switch from one computer to another?
<zleap> i was thinking as a back up plan having it installed
<Azelphur> gordonjcp: with a BNC, I can use a native client on any platform I like and be connected to IRC
<DethSone> log into it on another device?
<zleap> it is there if you need it then
<gordonjcp> DethSone: right, and that'll have all my scrollback?
<Azelphur> DethSone: yep, with a BNC you get scrollback too
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: I never really had much success with BNCs
<DethSone> I'm sure there is a work-around
<gordonjcp> I find GUIs too hard
<DethSone> a plugin maybe
<Azelphur> *shrug* Been using ZNC for years now, it's awesome
<Azelphur> I connect with pidgin/yaaic/xchat/...
<gordonjcp> click on whatever weirdass little squiggle the author has decided they want to use for some function, try to guess what it does
<zleap> freenode is or was blocked by south west grid for learning,  who provide the network stuff to my local library,
<DethSone> XChat = the future of IRC
<gordonjcp> toomuch like work
<gordonjcp> zleap: bet ssh isn't
<gordonjcp> DethSone: what does xchat actually do that's so great?
<zleap> gordonjcp, good idea
<Azelphur> DethSone: xchat is ancient
<DethSone> have you ever used XChat?
<Azelphur> Yes.
<gordonjcp> a long time ago
<gordonjcp> I used it, it sucked
<zleap> well i used my local lug server for irc,  that isn't blocked
<DethSone> try it today
<gordonjcp> why?
<zleap> guys i think u need to agree to disagree on stuff
<Azelphur> I have tried it today, it's largely not different to how it was a lot of years ago
<gordonjcp> what could it possibly do that irssi doesn't, that I actually want?
<gordonjcp> the screenshot don't look a whole lot different
<DethSone> I'm sure there was a shit load of development for XChat, now is perfect
<gordonjcp> DethSone: it's a GUI app, is there a terminal version?
<diplo> I use xchat, quite liked irssi but could never get it set up correctly
<zleap> a few of my local lug still use stuff like mutt for e-mail, i tried alpine and found it pretty good actually
<gordonjcp> diplo: startup channels are a bit of an arse
<gordonjcp> I use mutt as a backup
<DethSone> at-least XChat is not like Empaphy
<DethSone> ugh
<diplo> What i hate about xchat is no tiling
<gordonjcp> it's awfully handy when I'm ssh'ed into the server anyway
<zleap> gordonjcp, yeah, this was my point earlier having console clients installed is handy
<zleap> anyway got a lug meet tomorrow
<gordonjcp> _2E0BXQ: de MM0YEQ GE OM
<zleap> i am sure i had my system set up once so I could ssh in via my netbook and a usb mobile broadband dongle
<DethSone> I think I can at-least speak for everyone here when I say, as pretty and user-friendly as Empathy is, it is a fail IRC client.
<gordonjcp> zleap: easy enough
<zleap> yeah
<gordonjcp> DethSone: I never really got my head round either empathy or pidgin as an IRC client
<gordonjcp> the whole model is wrong
<zleap> DethSone, never used it, i just like using xchat
<DethSone> I mean, XChat has gotta be better than Empathy right?
<gordonjcp> I *am* interested in writing an Empathy plugin for AX.25 though
<Azelphur> DethSone: XChat hasn't seen much active development in a very long time
<Azelphur> DethSone: it's very much the same now as it was 10 years ago
<zleap> we don't want develiopment and added bloat
<DethSone> Azelphur, it hasn't needed any.
<Azelphur> DethSone: indeed
<zleap> if it ain't broke don't fix it
<Azelphur> ^ :P
<zleap> i need to set that ssh thing up again, and show some of the kids at the rugby club why Ubuntu is good
<zleap> i also need to figure out what is missing and stopping the game pad working properly on open arena
<DethSone> well, I'm sure you all here have valid points about your choice of IRC clients, if you like them, good for you, but I think my heart is set on XChat.
<zleap> yeah,
<Azelphur> hehe, it's a good client, I got nothing against it :)
<gordonjcp> yeah
<gordonjcp> I just prefer being able to hop on quickly and check IRC when I'm out and about
<DethSone> gordonjcp: what client you use, I might try it
<gordonjcp> DethSone: irssi, which I run inside screen on one of my servers
<gordonjcp> DethSone: just sits there in the background, until I connect
<DethSone> that's a CLI based client righ'?
<zleap> yeah
<gordonjcp> it's worth pointing out that at any given moment I have ssh connections from about three or four "user" machines (laptops, desktops, PC in the van) to three or four servers ;-)
<DethSone> meh, I could live with that, but I wouldn't like it much.
<gordonjcp> I seriously don't get what xchat offers
<gordonjcp> I'm looking at a screenshot
<gordonjcp> it looks much like the terminal window I have open, with an IRC channel scrolling up it
<gordonjcp> except it's got a list of channels at one side and a list of usernames at the other
<zleap> DethSone, useful to have when you can ssh in and use it
<DethSone> gordonjcp: easy menu selections and easy to navigate list of channels, + a shit load of other useful features, and a layout to die for.
<gordonjcp> menu selections of what?
<gordonjcp> and, what could be easier than pressing a key on the keyboard to select which channel you want?
<zleap> most of the menus u can access via commands anyway
<DethSone> gordonjcp: you'd have-to use it
<gordonjcp> DethSone: I don't think I'd like it, tbh
<gordonjcp> DethSone: I just don't find GUI apps easy to use
<DethSone> I've seen screenshots, they don't make it look good.
<DethSone> gordonjcp: okay ol' timer XD
<zleap> i guess its like comaring word with emacs
<gordonjcp> so, to change channels, I'd have to take my hand off the keyboard, find the mouse, wibble it about until I find the mouse pointer, mouse over to the channel list, click it, and switch back to the keyboard
<gordonjcp> *or*
<DethSone> ay ef kay
<gordonjcp> I could press <ESCAPE> <0>
<gordonjcp> there are very few GUI apps that don't flat out suck
<gordonjcp> mostly because the people who write GUI apps are focused on the shiny
<gordonjcp> and not the actual workflow
<gordonjcp> fuck the shiny
<zleap> LaTeX ftw
<gordonjcp> get the workflow right and the shiny will become obvious
 * mgdm looks for te Show Desktop button in Unity
<zleap> alt-tab
<gordonjcp> mgdm: that's on a key I don't even have
<zleap> well it is in 11.10 anyway
<gordonjcp> it's mapped to a button that wasn't invented when my IBM Model M was built
<mgdm> zleap: not in unity 2d, at least
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> dunno then
<zleap> can you add it
<zleap> hi
<zleap> well i will try and promote irc where i can
<zleap> i need to also promote ubuntu
<zleap> :)
<popey> zleap: meet issyl0
<zleap> yeah
<popey> you mailed the list about http://codingforkids.org/wiki/Contacts_page
<issyl0> Huh?
<popey> issyl0: is on that page
<zleap> oh
<zleap> sorry missed that
<issyl0> Hahah.
<issyl0> Wow.
<popey> âº
<zleap> hi issyl0
<issyl0> I didn't actually realise that.
<issyl0> :D
<issyl0> Hello.
<popey> yeah, bet you dont ever get any contact via that page do you issyl0 ?
<issyl0> Nope.
<popey> thought not
<zleap> i have posted to the list,
<issyl0> zleap: Which list?
<zleap> coding 4 kids
<issyl0> Ah.
<zleap> Asked about YRS posters
<issyl0> Ah, yeah.
<issyl0> There were some for last year - they'll probably make some for this year too.
<issyl0> They'd be silly not to.
<zleap> josh pickett is doing some now, will be ready for the 12th
<issyl0> Yeah, cool.
<zleap> I can give em out at park field and this computing group,  hopefully
<issyl0> Josh is brilliant.
<zleap> well contacting schools etc is a waste of time,  they are clueless or e-mail goes to the clueless which means info does not get to the people its aimed at
<zleap> setting up computer programming group,  so can promote directly
<issyl0> Heh, cool.  :-)
<zleap> :)
<zleap> not sure if it should be a coding group or hacking (as in programmer sense) group,  as latter would also cover hard ware hacking
<issyl0> zleap: Start small, work up.
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> well once a crb is done,  then the local youth centre are going to promote it
<issyl0> Heh, CRB checks.
<issyl0> Bleh.
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i want to encourage peer supported development as in help each other etc
<zleap> but also hopefully get people in to OSS projects as that is real world development
<issyl0> 4
<issyl0> Gah.
<zleap> ?
<zleap> will see what happens anyway
<zleap> so which sounds better coding group or hacking group ?
<zleap> wb imexil
<zleap> wb imperial
<zleap> grrrr
<zleap> wb imperial
<zleap> hello Pernig
<Pernig> evning
<zleap> how are u
<zleap> ok what do i need for tomorrows lug meet
<zleap> netbook, ubuntu cd's  poster for next months meet, :D,  11.10 poster
<Pernig> good thanks
<Pernig> you?
<zleap> i am good
<Pernig> SD cards?
<zleap> heading to bed early got lug meet tomorrow
<zleap> i have usb flash disks
<popey> gord: x220 claims it can get another 5 hours out of this 9 cell with the brightness on minimum and the kb light on
<mgdm> nice
 * mgdm wants one of those
<zleap> lol pc world site FAIL
<zleap> sort by prce low to high,  lists with the most expensive first
<zleap> sort by high to lowl  lists cheapest first
<ali1234> ooo libc update
<zleap> chat later
<DethSone> I tried reging, but no conf mail, what I do?
<AlanBell> ask in #freenode
<ali1234> my apt has exploded again
<ali1234> and i now have 6 apport bugs trying to submit at the same time
<ali1234> and, oh look, the bug where it doesn't submit properly still isn't fixed
<ali1234> what's the command to manually redo apport bugreport when you only have a crashdump and it crashed the first time around?
<gordonjcp> apportpocalyse now
<ali1234> oh yes, apport-cli
<ali1234> i'm getting the "ubuntu-desktop is marked for removal but is in the removal blacklist" thing again :(
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-11
<AlanBell> this looks interesting http://www.rnib.org.uk/professionals/webaccessibility/wacblog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?List=be9c76d3-7ad0-4e03-a1a0-e6f6953b8178&ID=51
<ali1234> bit late for me to show up for that
<AlanBell> yeah, I only just found out about it, I won't be able to make it
<ali1234> i still want to do that minicom hack
<AlanBell> it is a bit androidish anyway
<ali1234> software minicom on android would be perfect :)
<ali1234> either that or a gateway service you can run at home
<ali1234> but minicom isn't compatible with standard modems unfortunately
<AlanBell> a friend of mine had a machine, don't think they use it any more
<ali1234> it's only 300bps or something though, so it should be trivial to handle in software with a softmodem etc
<ali1234> surprised nobody has done it
<ali1234> well, they have, but i'm surprised nobody made an open source one
<AlanBell> yeah, it is a good protocol for text chatting
<AlanBell> sends every keystroke rather than every line
<ali1234> well, all modems do that
<AlanBell> sure, I meant the UI
<ali1234> minicom is pretty horrible really, suffers from duplex issues and no upper/lower case
<ali1234> so i'd like to either make a jabber to minicom gateway or an android app that lets you dial up a minicom from your phone and talks baudot through software
<ali1234> either way the only missing piece is the signal processing
<ali1234> and i need a real minicom for that so i can develop it
<ali1234> but they are like Â£99
<ali1234> (on ebay)
<ali1234> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultratec-Uniphone-1150-Textphone-/230739036640?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Mobility_Disability_Medical_ET&hash=item35b91e49e0
<AlanBell> ali1234: I will ask my friend if it is still lurking in a cupboard somewhere
<ali1234> apparently android doesn't let you touch the call audio so that's out
<ali1234> but our old friend fabrice bellard has made this: http://bellard.org/linmodem.html
<popey> heheh, our old friend
<ali1234> ive lost count of the cool projects with his name on
<ali1234> no gnuradio packages in ubuntu?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Chris Oattes] Ambilight Clone - http://www.cjo20.net/blog/?p=42
<Seeker`> \o/
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: That guy wrote some scary things
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ffmpeg, qemu, qemu-in-js
<ali1234> wheee
<ali1234> i demodulated FM with gnuradio :)
<MartijnVdS> cool
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: next up: DAB
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> one of the linuxtv developers has a dvb-t stick with FM and DAB
<MartijnVdS> Ooh
<ali1234> but it uses a softradio to decode it
<ali1234> so, he posted some dumps
<MartijnVdS> Apparently there are DAB transmissions in .nl, but about 3 receivers total
<ali1234> and i just worked out how to listen to it in gnuradio :)
<ali1234> of course it will suck if you need gnuradio to listen to FM
<ali1234> it's not even packaged for ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: It's always useful to be able to though, in case the robots take over
<ali1234> just goes to show the damage you can do with wikipedia, open source code, and a bit of determination
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnV1S> \o
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<cliftonts> morning guys
<brobostigon> morning cliftonts
<cliftonts> how's it going?
<brobostigon> cliftonts: alittle tired. and you?
<cliftonts> well, I had to be up for work at 5:30 so pretty much the same
<AlanBell> hi cliftonts
<AlanBell> should be up your way tomorrow
<cliftonts> AlanBell: Morning, thanks I'm down to my last disc today!
<AlanBell> no snow is forecast so should be OK :)
<cliftonts> I'm bored with the snow now anyway
<gordonjcp> no snow here, wish we had some
<cliftonts> well you can have mine! lol
<gordonjcp> Is is possible to install Ubuntu on a machine without setting up an initial user, and then have it prompt to set up a user on the second boot?
<gordonjcp> or, first boot after installation
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: yes
<AlanBell> oemconfig-prepare
<gordonjcp> cool
<cliftonts> yes gordonjcp
<gordonjcp> which suggests exactly the use-case I was looking for
<zleap> hi, if I want to set up my router to allow ssh to my maincomputer do I set up ssh service as inbound,,
<cliftonts> boot the live cd, press some keys when the cryptic keyboard = man logo comes up
<cliftonts> then push F4 and select OEM install
<gordonjcp> is that in 10.04?
<AlanBell> you boot up in OEM mode, as an OEM user, tinker with stuff, add/remove packages whatever, then when you are done, oem-config-prepare and it sets it up for the first real user
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: has been there since at least 8.04
<gordonjcp> cool
<gordonjcp> right, I'll play with that later
<AlanBell> cliftonts: that cryptic symbol represents accessibility
<cliftonts> it may do but keyboard = man in a bubble doesn't seem very intuitive
<AlanBell> and was the most outrageously thoughtless thing ever done
<AlanBell> cliftonts: rather accademic anyhow, when it is aimed at blind users
<cliftonts> lol
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: is that what it is?
<AlanBell> hay blind person, when you see this symbol on screen with no audio cue, press the keyboard /o\
<gordonjcp> I have trouble distinguishing symbols at the best of times
<AlanBell> http://projects.gnome.org/accessibility/
<AlanBell> http://www.apple.com/accessibility/
<AlanBell> those are the only two places I am aware of that you might see that symbol and be expected to know it means accessibility
<gordonjcp> I didn't think it meant accessibility tbh
<gordonjcp> I thought it looked like the guy off the cover of the Frankie Goes To Hollywood - "Two Tribes" 12-inch single, eating a waffle
<AlanBell> neither did I, so I drew this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/HeaderMain?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=accessibilityteam.png
<gordonjcp> now it's explained to me I can see it looks like a guy in a circle standing beside a giant keyboard
<AlanBell> anyhow, now to get the audio installer you wait for the drums at the start of ubiquity and hit ctrl+s
<gordonjcp> it's a man in a wheeled coffee cup doing a stoppie
<AlanBell> hmm, there was that call for a new sound theme
<AlanBell> best check they still have sounds in the important places
<daubers> Morning
<cliftonts> well, nothing's ever perfect. Right?
<AlanBell> cliftonts: yeah, just annoying when things go backward
<AlanBell> just left a comment on the design team blog about the sounds that must not be lost
<AlanBell> the design team have a habbit of changing things that were always done a particular way for a *reason*. Change is good, but you have to understand what you are breaking.
<cliftonts> well, I have faith it'll all work out anyway.
<jacobw> morning
<jacobw> (in before noon)
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/837679/ not many bugs left
<AlanBell> if you have unity you could put that in something like quicklists.py and run it with python
<AlanBell> then right click launcher items to see and navigate to windows
<AlanBell> bit broken with gimp, but generally works
<AlanBell> bit broken if you close an application altogether and restart it in fact
<gord> hrm, you would of thought that balancing a router on a radiator would cause it to overheat, but apparently not. woo
<gord> AlanBell, it wants a timestamp because X uses timestamps to decide which action to take in case of conflicts (two things tell it to do two different things, newest timestamp wins)
<AlanBell> ah, ok
<popey> Morning all from Surrey LUG
<hamitron> why just people from there? ;)
<christel> morning popey
<AlanBell> o/ popey and the luggers
<gordonjcp> popey: morning
<Seeker`> hey hey
<directhex> popey, surrey is in a different time zone, at least 2 hours before GMT?
<AlanBell> all time is relative, lunchtime doubly so
<AlanBell> time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so, to quote more accurately
<brobostigon> hhgttg. :)
<brobostigon> ford prefect.
<popey> most people have gone to the pub
<popey> i have no salted peanuts
 * Seeker` salts popeys nuts?
<penguin42> AlanBell: So I guess your chickens are out of luck for future releases of Kubuntu then
<AlanBell> hmm?
<penguin42> AlanBell: Canonical dropped funding for Kubuntu
<AlanBell> oh, interesting, I guess no pressed kubuntu CDs after 12.04
<AlanBell> possibly
<AlanBell> was that bit actually announced?
<penguin42> I haven't actually seen an announcment
<BigRedS> I guessed it'd be announced after 12.04 is released
 * AlanBell asks in #kubuntu
<hamitron> everything I move to try seems to die or break.... testing KDE atm ;)
 * penguin42 isn't actually too bothered about the distro so much as the packages; if the KDE packages are OK I'm happy
<hamitron> maybe I should try my "luck" on MS or Apple
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> penguin42: I can't see it getting any worse than xfce or lxde
<BigRedS> (though I don't know what state theyr'e in compared to KDE)
<hamitron> what is performance of Kubuntu like?
<penguin42> hamitron: Fine here on an AMD hd4350 (open drivers) on an i7
<penguin42> BigRedS: To some degree that's my worry
<hamitron> I think my main wory is memory
<hamitron> worry*
<AlanBell> how much do you have?
<penguin42> hamitron: I think there is a low resource setup - not tried it
<hamitron> and the "feel"
<AlanBell> memory is cheap
<hamitron> mobo only accepts 2GB
<AlanBell> that is OK for general use
<hamitron> but I just find *buntu sluggish sometimes
<hamitron> starts up loads faster than a lot of stuff, but then never feels snappy
<AlanBell> the chickens may have to switch to Ubuntu server in the 12.10 cycle
<hamitron> I will ofc try unity before deciding to move from the default supported UI
<hamitron> chickens? :|
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/05/28/ubuntu-uk-loco-cds/
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> I better get stuff sorted before the match starts
<hamitron> bbl o/
<ali1234> regarding the man = keyboard, i always though it meant "hey you, press a key"
<popey> ali1234: are you sat next to me?
<popey> bloke next to me just asked what person = keyboard means
<ali1234> and i was reading about baader-meinhof phenomenon last night. true story
 * penguin42 wonders if the gov just use e-petitions as a way of finding evil nasty opinionated people to keep an eye on
<AlanBell> it is cryptic to those in the know
<ali1234> but no, i was just reading the scroll back from this morning
<popey> erm
<popey> ubuntu 12.04 only installs if the host supports pae?
<popey> this seems somewhat um.. odd
<AlanBell> that will be the 32 bit CD
<popey> got a chap here with an old but usable thinkpad which doesn't have / support pae
<popey> yes
<popey> should I use the 64-bit cd? (no idea if the cpu supports 64-bit)
<AlanBell> no pae and no 64 bit
<popey> sorry i cant parse that
<MartijnVdS> How much RAM does he have?
<popey> MartijnVdS: does it matter?
<popey> 1.5GB
<MartijnVdS> popey: PAE is only used for addressing >4GB of RAM
<popey> sure
<popey> but i cant even boot the install cd
<AlanBell> I would try 64bit if it will do that
<popey> its a pentium M class cpu, thinkpad x40
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think there have been efforts to standardise on using the PAE kernel even for smaller machines just to avoid having to test two kernel sets
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: ah, sure. But then the kernel should degrade gracefully
<penguin42> nod
<MartijnVdS> there's nothing in the Technical Overview (release notes)
<penguin42> fun: http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/bsw.php - near to the edges of margin on the UK electricity grid for this evening - fortunately these type of warnings are rare
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: empty page with to "Loading, please wait" ?
<MartijnVdS> two
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: On Chrome? It doesn't like chrome
<MartijnVdS> chrome, yes
<MartijnVdS> what am I looking at?
<MartijnVdS> A prediction that not enough power will be available?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: The top one (most recent) is that there is enough but it's too close to the edge for what they like
<MartijnVdS> Next is tea/kettle rationing? ;)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: The one issued earlier at 10:24 was heavier saying that 'Demand control imminent' which I think is when they say to large industrial consumers to turn off
<MartijnVdS> I love how it's that public
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-November/034399.html
<MartijnVdS> You won't see that in .nl
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Although that's the kind of large industrial users who strike a bargain price on the basis they might get told that
<popey> the discussion about non-pae
<ali1234> so what CPU is it that is not working?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/bsp_home.htm  has a lot more stats - if you look there is a graph of our flow to/from you on our interconnect and there is also wind production predictions
<ali1234> oh, nvm, pentium M
<ali1234> yeah, that's... old
<penguin42> an M isn't *that* old - and there is quite a range of M's
<penguin42> popey: What speed M is it you have?
<popey> 1.6GHz
<popey> it's a perfectly acceptable laptop by the look of it
<popey> not some manky old crap
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think the combination here is that the prediction is we'll have low wind this evening, and we're mostly warning on coal today (reserving gas because of the shortages at the moment?) and if we're low on wind it's likely that .nl may be as well so we won't be able to get from you this evening
<penguin42> popey: So that thing you linked to said ~400MHz Pentium M didn't have PAE - but a 1.6GHz is *much* newer
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Time to fire up the ol' nukes! ;)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well those graphs show we do have the nukes on full
<gordonjcp> clearly we need more nuclear plants with modern designs
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Although I don't like nukes, I do agree they're the only current solution
<gordonjcp> what's not to like?
<gordonjcp> they're compact, clean and efficient
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Very very occasionally they go very wrong
<gordonjcp> okay, they're expensive to build but they have a long service life
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Or efficient links to France, they have lots of nukes :)
<gordonjcp> penguin42: that's not a big deal
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well yes we have a 2GW link to France, and you can see some of the time today we were selling them power
<penguin42> gordonjcp: No? I'd say that at the moment I'd agree I'd prefer the risk to the lights going out
<penguin42> gordonjcp: But the guys in Japan might disagree at the moment
<popey> bug 930447
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 930447 in linux (Ubuntu) "Unable to Install Ubuntu 12.04 on Pentium M x86 Laptop due to PAE kernel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930447
<gordonjcp> penguin42: the real problem is that the vast majority of nuclear reactors in the world date from the same era as split-windscreen Morris Minors
<zleap> hello
<zleap-lugmeet> hello
<penguin42> gordonjcp: True, but you're always going to find things that you could have done better in a design compared to 30 years ago, so whatever we build now is going to look crazy in 30 years time
<gordonjcp> penguin42: right, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't scrap the existing reactors and build new ones
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Agreed, and we really need to start doing that _now_ (actually years ago)
<gordonjcp> yup
<AlanBell> popey: so we have http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/linux-image-3.2.0-15-generic but it is impossible to get to it right?
<AlanBell> popey: maybe put the hdd in a more modern CPU computer, install it and then install linux-image-generic, then put it back in the old one
<popey> hehe
<popey> the hdd is an ide ssd
<popey> so yeah, thats possible
<head_victim> Apparently the mini iso still works to install from I'm told.
<AlanBell> usb HDD cradle?
<popey> ahhh!
<penguin42> popey: So it looks like the age of the PentiumM's affected was just wrong in the original thread
 * popey will fiddle, thanks for the suggestions
<danfish> afternoon
 * danfish is thinking of getting an amd fusion laptop
<danfish> anyone here running ubuntu on one and if so all good?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Found the Dutch electicity net news feed :) http://www.tennet.org/bedrijfsvoering/OperationeleBerichtgeving.aspx
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: but it's more "market" news
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Ah it does have some of the data; http://www.tennet.org/english/bsmailfax/20120211_084905_Extra_biedingen_en_mogelijke_inzet_noodvermogen.html    seems to be the equivalent warning
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Yes
<SuperEngineer> o/
<AlanBell> really not impressed by the Unity API documentation
<SuperEngineer> I recommend a listen to first few seconds of lastest Linux Outlaws  podcast  - a good reminder to us all courtesy of Jean Luke Pichard http://feeds.feedburner.com/linuxoutlaws-ogg
<SuperEngineer> [could actually be a Ubuntu moto?
 * SuperEngineer avoids temptation to add political comment to end of that one ;)
 * BigRedS imagines Shuttleworth on a purple MX bike
<OmNomDePlume> I'm watching the Everton - Chelsea game
<OmNomDePlume> Is David Luiz playing as a centre-back or an attacking midfielder?!
<danfish> OmNomDePlume: I think he's wicket keeper :P
<OmNomDePlume> Had no idea Brazil had a cricket team.
<MartijnVdS> neither did they
<jacobw> evening
<danfish> dutchland has a cricket team
<jacobw> dutchland?
<BigRedS> yeah, the land of the dutch
<jacobw> obviously
<danfish> talking of dutch, haven't heard from dutchie here for a while
<jacobw> this is curious
<danfish> must be enjoying the student life too much
<jacobw> these students :p
<danfish> jacobw: the internets didn't exist when I was a studcent :(
<danfish> I'm not sure we had ecletricity
<jacobw> lol
<AlanBell> if you run this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sanity.py in python you should get reasonably functional window quicklists
<AlanBell> so right click on running things in the unity launcher bar and you see all the relevant window titles, click to focus on them
<dutchie> i'm still here!
<dutchie> student life is busy
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> I am just opening up lots of windows and then going to *the one I want to*, it is great
<danfish> dutchie: hope you are having fun at oxford poly ;)
 * danfish is upgrading to 12.04 and will check out AlanBell's script later
<popey> ooooh AlanBell
<popey> thats really good
<AlanBell> :)
<dutchie> danfish: oi
<AlanBell> popey: it deals with adding and removing and renaming windows, and applications closing and re-opening, I can't make it go wrong now
<dutchie> dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "RunningApplicationsDesktopFiles" with signature "" on interface "org.ayatana.bamf.matcher" doesn't exist
<AlanBell> I dunno if there is a design team edict that window quicklists are verboten
<popey> AlanBell: can you make it do tabs ?
<dutchie> AlanBell: are you on precise?
<AlanBell> dutchie: yes, but it should work on older unity I expect
<AlanBell> popey: not with the bamf api, that just sees windows. It renames based on what tab you are in mostly
<dutchie> apparently not
<AlanBell> dutchie: ok :(
<dutchie> AlanBell: see exception above
<dutchie> is there anything i might need to install?
 * danfish got dutchie's error on another 12.10 laptop
<AlanBell> ah, must be a new method
<oimon1> guys, how can i disable the functionality in unity where the buttons get put on the panel when maximised? i've disabled global menu, but my buttons are on the right, so hidden buttons on the left is not working for me
<AlanBell> there might be a python dependency of some kind
<czajkowski> evening
<danfish> s/12.10/11.10
<danfish> czajkowski: looking forwrards to the rubgy?
<dutchie> 18:08:29 < danfish> s/12.10/11.10
<dutchie> um
<dutchie> https://code.launchpad.net/~mhr3/bamf/non-chatty-signals/+merge/88462 < looks like that introduced it
<czajkowski> danfish: always
<dutchie> and was approved ~3 weeks ago
<dutchie> so precise only
<danfish> ah, will wait until upgrade finished
<danfish> czajkowski: will probably the deciding game of the tournament
<czajkowski> danfish: annoying match at 8pm
<czajkowski> danfish: how are england v italy doing ?
<danfish> czajkowski: englandwon by 4pts....just
<oimon1> so, anyone know how to disable the "maximus" functionality in unity?:(
<danfish> oimon1: not sure butdoes ccsm have the option?
<diplo> evening all
<oimon1> danfish: can't see anything, there might be a hidden gconftool function
<oimon1> keep looking at ways that i can make unity usable for me, but right now it doesn't rally look like unity at all, so i might as well use xfce or something (although i like and use desktop zoom in compiz a lot)
 * danfish is using xfce on my lappie at the mo as it's  a  rubbish lap
<zleap> hello
<BigRedS> hello!
<popey> pip pip
<MartijnVdS> \o
<czajkowski> danfish: wow that was close
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] A man, a cupcake, a photobooth - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/02/11/a-man-a-cupcake-a-photobooth/
<czajkowski> anyone else using the ambiance theme?
<zleap> czajkowski, think so
<zleap> i find the theme seems to change at random for no aparant reason
<czajkowski> theme hasn't changed
<czajkowski> just trying to see things using the theme has become difficult
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> it seems fine here
<zleap> hmm, checking this out got distracted by the removeable media settings,  it does not seem to list usb flash drives
<czajkowski> clickong on more networks pops out a small window which wont show up on screen capure but can barely be seen http://twitpic.com/8ikzgu/full
<czajkowski> reading pdfs changing the size on menu is to dark to read
<zleap> what am i looking for there,  the console window looks clear as does the menu
<czajkowski> the drop down menu for wifi networks
<zleap> wired networks are not available then
<czajkowski> I click on more networks
<czajkowski> and a small box pops out but I cant see whats i it
<zleap> ah,  i am on wired so can't check that out here
<czajkowski> np
<zleap> do you get the same issue in 12.04 b2 ?>
<zleap> so is this dodge window thing refering to the side bar hiding,  its changing to always visible or something
<AlanBell> yes, and yes
<zleap> ok
<czajkowski> AlanBell: evenimn
<zleap> that may be handy as i keep getting the side bar pop up when i try and close apps
<AlanBell> czajkowski: next time I am in London I will see what the more networks thing does czajkowski
<zleap> i assume then when apps go full screen,  they will stop at the side bar,
<AlanBell> zleap: they do
<zleap> ok
<zleap> thats better too
<AlanBell> and there is a launcher on every monitor now
<zleap> nice
<AlanBell> dunno where gord is putting his hud
<zleap> so will we still have menus
<popey> czajkowski: i get that more networks issue
<AlanBell> I guess it pops out of the launcher on the monitor containing the focussed application
<ali1234> for now
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so what happens if people can't type very well but can use a mouse
<ali1234> what happens if we are using a program that uses meta and alt?
<AlanBell> there will be menus
<zleap> ah
<zleap> so menus are not going fully
<zleap> some articles / comments seem to imply that
<AlanBell> ali1234: if you want to to alt+prtscr you are out of luck because gord grabbed your alt key
<AlanBell> zleap: yeah, they are wrong
<czajkowski> popey: oh good not just me :)
<ali1234> AlanBell: yeah. normally i would just remap it to meta but unity steals that too
<zleap> great, cos alt-printscreen is for sysrq kernel hacking stuff,   which is handy
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/25nKPCS3rAJAM4qFEIRWyV
<ali1234> over-design again
<AlanBell> yeah, I stop unity stealing super because I use super+mousewheel for enhanced zoom
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> popey: someone isn't a unity fan?
<AlanBell> and I turn off the shortcut overlay too
<AlanBell> popey: I think you need to plug that in
<zleap> oh on mini features like this on network connection information,  can we have a way to save that info to a file
<zleap> is shortcut overlay 12.04 only ?
<AlanBell> alt-printscreen is for screenshot of the current window
<ali1234> it's the old story: application designers assume you will only use their application and no others, so they design it to use as much resources/conflicting keyboard shortcuts/etc as possible. and it might work well if they are right and you never use anything else
<zleap> print screen is a pain i keep accidentally hitting it
<popey> AlanBell: it just died when i was getting the power lead âº
<ali1234> doesn't really make much sense when the application in question is specifically supposed to be used to manage other applications
<AlanBell> ali1234: http://trendsupdates.com/openoffice-mouse-a-computer-mouse-with-18-buttons-and-a-joystick/
<AlanBell> that is the alternative to key binding clashes
<popey> rebooted and that issue has gone away
<ali1234> the alternative to key binding clashes is for window managers not to use key bindings
<ali1234> instead, they should just use mouse input
<AlanBell> nah
<zleap> ali1234, or use the command line
<AlanBell> everything should be keyboard navigable, and should be accessible to orca
<zleap> like emacs etc
<AlanBell> however some of the unity keybinding choices are a bit suspect
<ali1234> any time i have to look away from the screen and at the keyboard it slows me down
<ali1234> it is much more efficient to launch programs with the mouse rather than look down at the keyboard to press meta-1 to open a nautilus or whatever
<zleap> the speccy hasd several commands on each key, with several key bindings to call up different basic commands
<AlanBell> sure
<ali1234> if you think using the keyboard for this is faster you must have extremely poor mouse skills
<AlanBell> no, I don't
<ali1234> lots of people do though
<AlanBell> I think it should be *possible* to do everything from the keyboard
<ali1234> i agree
<ali1234> it should not be the recommended and prefered way to do it  though
<zleap> all alt-s is quicker when saving
<zleap> well
<popey> ctrl+s surely
<ali1234> every person who likes unity, every single one, will talk about how its so great to reveal the launcher with meta or switch to an application with meta-1,2,3
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> sorry
<zleap> what is meta ?
<ali1234> you mean ctrl-o enter
<AlanBell> zleap: super
<zleap> ah
<zleap> thanks
<ali1234> no wait, you mean ctrl-x ctrl-s
<BigRedS> I love how hard everyone tries to not call it the windows key :)
<ali1234> no wait, you mean esc:w
<zleap> :w
<popey> you mean alt, save, enter
<ali1234> popey: that won't work in *any* of the programs i have just mentions, but thanks for playing
<AlanBell> alt, "sav" enter
<popey> hud?
<ali1234> hud works with terminal programs?
<popey> oh i see
<ali1234> nano, emacs, vi?
<ali1234> yeah, that's what i thought
<zleap> cool
<AlanBell> if you do alt *save* enter it will probably just change the font size
<popey> real people use terminals huh?
<BigRedS> wait, you want mouse commands to work in vi?
<MartijnVdS> popey: are you saying people who use terminals aren't real?
<zleap> they work in mc i think
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: sounds about right to me
<popey> +1
<MartijnVdS> :(
<MartijnVdS> I'm not imaginary!
<AlanBell> no, just virtual
<ali1234> BigRedS: no, the point i am trying to make is that the keyboard is not always the best way, particularly for the inexperienced user
<AlanBell> anyhow, switching windows is done by right clicking the icon in the launcher and selecting the window title from the quicklist, all mousy goodness
<BigRedS> ali1234: Ah. I'm not one of those people who thinks everything need be good for the inexperienced user, and I also dislike having to find my mouse :)
<ali1234> BigRedS: i dislike having to find the keeeeeeyboard. who is to say which of us is "right?"
<BigRedS> ali1234: neither
<BigRedS> I think both should be accomodated for
<ali1234> mouse users absolutely are not being accomodated for with unity
<BigRedS> nor are keyboard users
<ali1234> the only thing we hear is "but the keyboard is so much better"
<zleap> so will the unity menu config uration tool be added to the settings / control panel app so its easy to find
<BigRedS> I'm sure we talked about this the other day :)
<ali1234> yeah
<AlanBell> BigRedS: that reminds me, I was going to do a little tweak to the "show mouse" plugin
<ali1234> unity has a lot more going to it for keyboard users, like hud, shortcuts for everything, programs are launched by typing the name
<BigRedS> the *wrong* program is launched by typing the name
<ali1234> if the computer has no keyboard finding programs will take ages
<AlanBell> ali1234: I did try to fix that, might try again
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yeah, unity caters well for bad typists
<BigRedS> yeah, i suppose it's just that the keyboard only ways seem to be a lot longer and involve more keypresses than they should
<penguin42> not sure
<ali1234> i think i said this before but unity should come with one of those cardboard cut out keyboard overlays like you used to get with flight sim games
<penguin42> ali1234: If you just hold menu down it pops one up
<ali1234> that's not helpful
<ali1234> i need to look at the keyboard
<ali1234> i can't see that when i'm looking at the keyboard
<AlanBell> it is *bad*
<czajkowski> DJones: indeed! what did they expect from a 8pm kick off
<AlanBell> it isn't keyboard focussable so you can't read it with orca at all
<AlanBell> it is completely broken by design
<ali1234> i look at that screen and think "oh, that's nice" and then continue doing everything the slow way with the mouse
<jacobw> broken or defectve? :p
<ali1234> i actually learned a lot about unity by doing the checkbox test
<jacobw> using the mouse is always slow
<ali1234> especially the alt-tab and friends stuff
<jacobw> vimperator ftw
<ali1234> using the mouse is only slow when software is badly designed
<ali1234> when i'm using the mouse i don't get interrupted by having to focus on the keyboard instead of the monitor
<ali1234> that interrupts my train of thought
<jacobw> you don't need to look at keyboard to use it
<ali1234> yes i do
<DJones> czajkowski: in rugby league, the Catalan v Hull game due to be played this evening was called off this morning
<diplo> AlanBell, you still about ?
<AlanBell> yah
<diplo> I know it's a saturday but can I ask you a Libertus Q ?
<AlanBell> sure
 * AlanBell starts the stopwatch and prepares invoice
<diplo> I was chatting to you and the other alan about OpenERP the other
<diplo> day
<AlanBell> yup, how did you get on with installing it?
<diplo> I've mentioned it and showed the guys who are starting the business the website and still not got 6.1rc going ( about to try again now )
<diplo> They are interested
<diplo> Two questions, how do you go about quoting for support if they wanted some offical support
<AlanBell> that is sold through official partners (yay, we can help you with that)
<diplo> And secondly, if they wanted to see it in action do you have any customers who may let them visit site and see it in action ?
<AlanBell> pricing structure is here http://www.openerp.com/catalog/146
<AlanBell> maybe, where are they geographically?
<diplo> Wiltshire
<diplo> Near Bath
<AlanBell> I can ask around the other partners and see if they have any good examples over that way
<diplo> That would be great thanks
<AlanBell> the one we are putting in in portsmouth will be good to look at in a few months time, but it is only just going in really
<diplo> Also with your installs of libre software, do you ever do Asterix installs
<AlanBell> funny you should ask :)
<diplo> Well they are only pricing up and getting a business thingy for the bank at the mo, I'm just giving them some options including the company I work for
<AlanBell> the portsmouth bunch are into telephone systems and asked about asterisk integration
<diplo> Between you and theopensourcer I've heard about openerp a fair bit
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> we use asterisk internally, but it isn't linked to our openerp yet, and we don't really sell ourselves as asterisk engineers
<diplo> And I'm also trying to help friends out with some initial costs, instead of paying a few k to BT for a phone system
<AlanBell> you end up competing in a whole different marketplace if you are a telephony person
<diplo> I used to admin our Nortel CS1000 in my last job, always wanted to try Asterix, dubious if i can set it up but willing to give it a go
<AlanBell> the main cost is handsets, a proprietary PBX is not that expensive
<diplo> Installation etc included it is though from memory ?
<AlanBell> asterisk only really wins when you do interesting things with it
<diplo> They are only going to be a 2 man + maybe a driver company
<AlanBell> in that case, a small efficient fanless asterisk appliance might be good
<diplo> I was debating about a microserver doing openerp and Asterix in one ?
<AlanBell> http://www.ipchitchat.co.uk/index.php/Atcom-Asterisk-Appliances/Atcom-IP-02-Asterisk-Appliance
<diplo> See you really are the man to talk to :)
<diplo> Always wanted to do some Opensource stuff for business but my last company used to go proprietary all the way
<AlanBell> you could run asterisk and openerp on the same box
<diplo> Blimey, at that price that really isn't that bad at all
<AlanBell> yeah, dunno how many channels it does, but plenty for a small office I should think
<diplo> No handler found. is the issue I'm getting with openerp atm
<diplo> Just about to start looking at the cause now
<AlanBell> there is an openerp module for managing asterisk
<diplo> ooh
<diplo> I'm getting more and more sold :)
<AlanBell> I am not sure how good it is, some modules are of variable quality
<diplo> I'm getting some data from them soon, see if i can get them set up to play with it
<diplo> Payed for ? Or part of community ?
<diplo> paid*
<AlanBell> all the modules are free AGPL
 * jacobw googles openerp
<jacobw> anything that makes asterisk easier to manage interests me
<AlanBell> you can pay extra to have an exemption from the AGPL if you want private modules for your implementation
 * AlanBell creates a database to install the asterisk module in
<diplo> Do you run your Asterix on one of those type boxes or just on a general server ?
<diplo> Was wondering how well i HP Microserver would handle it tbh
 * jacobw runs asterisk in a VM
<AlanBell> diplo: on a ropey old downclocked desktop in theopensourcerer's house
<AlanBell> I think it was downclocked to 700Mhz to run fanless
<AlanBell> http://apps.openerp.com/?filter={%22order_by%22%3A+%22click_counter+desc%22}&text_search=asterisk
<diplo> Ta, just llooking
<diplo> I really like the looks of that, click2dial etc and using openerp's partner db to display on phones customer name
<AlanBell> well there is a bug in the click2dial stuff, it won't install cleanly
<diplo> Seems a great project to get involved in if i can get it to do what i want though
<diplo> Something to do of evenings
<diplo> Hmm, still failing on install running python setup.py
 * diplo goes through deps again
<AlanBell> can you pastebin the output
<AlanBell> this click2dial stuff is doing funky things I have not seen before in the xml files for the security groups
<diplo> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/146541
<diplo> I've done it from just before it failed, first time it failed i'd missed python-ldap
<jacobw>  /o\ ldap
<diplo> One thing I've never got to work
<diplo> And so want to :)
<BigRedS> Oh man. The imapsync I've been trying to get going since about 8am has *finallly* started going.
<diplo> Want to setup at work
<jacobw> i know the feeling
<BigRedS> I managed to use ldap quite succesfully against MS AD for various things
<jacobw> cn=config is so contrary
<BigRedS> never got a server working
<jacobw> storing the ldap servers configuration .. in the ldap server
<diplo> Want our helpdesk/phonesystem and addressbooks for email all using same system
<jacobw> that's almost what i'm trying to do
<jacobw> make a single sign on for linux hosts, an mail server and a ticket system as well as provide a unified address book
<AlanBell> diplo: hmm, running the setup.py isn't really required normally
<diplo> http://www.openerp.com/forum/post98042.html#p98042
<diplo> I can't seem to get it to work "No Handler found" and 2 posts ive found so far reference this one
<diplo> That says to do that
<diplo> :P
<diplo> I'm guessing i'm missing a dependancy some where
<diplo> Going to go through TheOpenS's tut again and make sure i installed them all
<AlanBell> all from the server and web installs
<diplo> It starts without errors
<diplo> yeah
<diplo> All dependancies are there, just added .log file in the openserver.conf and noerrors
<diplo> :D
<diplo> rah
<diplo> It works
<AlanBell> yay
<diplo> lol, should have tested again before
<diplo> one of the python ones missing
<diplo> default user ?
<AlanBell> there is a superadmin user with just a password set to admin, that one can create databases, each database will have an admin user that you can change the password of
<diplo> Think i still have stuff to sort yet :)
<diplo> OpenERP Server Error
<diplo> Client Traceback (most recent call last):
<diplo>   File "/opt/openerp/server/openerp/addons/web/common/http.py", line 176, in dispatch
<diplo>     response["result"] = method(controller, self, **self.params)
<diplo> saying database not set, guessing that reads from the openserver.conf
<AlanBell> is there a "databases" button somewhere
<diplo> yeah it's empty
<diplo> [options]
<diplo> ; This is the password that allows database operations:
<diplo> ; admin_passwd = admin
<diplo> db_host = False
<diplo> db_port = False
<diplo> db_user = openerp
<AlanBell> not the dropdown, somewhere else
<diplo> Just have that in my conf
<diplo> ah manage databses
<AlanBell> thats the one
<AlanBell> create a database there
<diplo> ooh doing something
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Master password had something in it already
<diplo> <-- Must read some docs shortly
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Sorry for troubling you
<diplo> Oooh a page has loaded \o/
 * diplo tinkers
 * AlanBell hacks out all the security from the asterisk module to get it to install
<diplo> heh
<diplo> I'm just installing modules
<diplo> Seeing how it works
<diplo> Get some data tomorrow/monday
<diplo> So need to understand properly to import
<diplo> :)
 * penguin42 is trying the cinnamon ppa - it's kind of nice
 * popey glares at libwebkitgtk
 * jacobw observes libwebkitgtk glaring back at popey
<ali1234> use qtwebkit
<ali1234> qwebkit sorry
<ali1234> it's incredibly easy to use
<ali1234> penguin42: which one is cinnamon again?
<jacobw> linux mint gnome3
<ali1234> i thought that was MGSE
 * jacobw googles
<ali1234> or does that only refer to the extension plugins
<ali1234> gnome 3 + MGSE = cinnamon?
<jacobw> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/linux-mints-cinnamon-a-gnome-3x-shell-fork/10056
<jacobw> as much as i dislike SJVN, this a good explanation
<popey> ali1234: my observation is based around the current build failure of libwebkitgtk in 12.04
<ali1234> hah
<ali1234> jacobw: the "screenshot" on zdnet is actually a screenshot of the cinnamon website
<ali1234> seriously zdnet, wtf?
<ali1234> http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/cinnamon.png
<jacobw> ha
<jacobw> so it is
<penguin42> ali1234: I tell you - it feels *fast* on this machine compared to Unity
<ali1234> why is that surprising?
<jacobw> gnome-shell feels fast compared to unity
<ali1234> unity-2d feels fast compared to unity
<ali1234> so called "accelerated" desktops
<ali1234> actually slower than the 2d version
<ali1234> "accelerated" firefox actually slower than the not-accelerated version
<Seeker`> popey: gonna build an ambilight?
<popey> heh, no, but i thought it was cool
<ali1234> i might build one of those :)
<popey> i dont have a flat wall behind my telly
<ali1234> i bought a load of RGB LEDs
<ali1234> no idea what to do with them
<Seeker`> Will probably start the software writeup part tomorrow
<ali1234> how do you capture the screen without hammering the CPU?
<Seeker`> you don't :P
<ali1234> how do you figure out what colours to use then?
<diplo> How the hell have i got a fly in my front room in this weather?!!?!!?!?!?!?
<Seeker`> Well, it takes from 5%-30% of one core of a Q6600 to capture the data
<ali1234> that's kind of unacceptable for me :(
<Seeker`> and the light server takes another 10% or so
<ali1234> :O
<ali1234> it only needs to write to the serial port
<ali1234> and why is it a separate server?
<Seeker`> ali1234: the software is written in two parts; The boblightd which transmits the colours to the arduinos, and clients, which tell the server which colours to display
<ali1234> i see
<ali1234> fair enough if you want to use a different colour than what's on the screen i suppose
<Seeker`> and the server can (in theory) listen to more than one client at once, and displays an average of the two
<Seeker`> ali1234: did you see the video in my blog post?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i only skimmed the text and looked at the pictures :)
<ali1234> how are you synchronizing the serial data?
<popey> the video is great
<popey> worth watching
<popey> i especially liked watching the titles to futurama, the colour of the light was really well in sync
<ali1234> i had no end of problems with sync because arduino doesn't support any kind of flow control
<Seeker`> it transmits a stream of serial data, with a specific header to look for to know when a new frame of data is being sent
<ali1234> and, escape codes?
<Seeker`> popey: actually, it wasn't; there is a slight lag there. Only worked out how to fix it yesterday!
<ali1234> or just prevent that header from ever showing up in the data
<ali1234> i managed to squeeze about 0.4mbit from the USB arduino virtual serial port
<popey> i didnt notice, it looked good to me
<Seeker`> ali1234: No, nothing to prevent the header showing up AFAIK
<ali1234> you'll need escape codes then
<Seeker`> popey: yeah, it was subtle, but it was noticable with rapid scene changes
<Seeker`> ali1234: it hasn't proved to be an issue so far (I actually got this working a month ago, and have been using it daily since)
<popey> how much has it cost to make all-told?
<ali1234> does the video have no sound?
<popey> yeah
<Seeker`> popey: I probably spent just over Â£160 on it, but I thought I would need to crimp cable etc. so I bought stuff I didn't actually need
<Seeker`> You could do it for Â£120 not including delivery I think
<ali1234> how much if i already had everything except the LED strips?
<ali1234> Â£29.99/m
<Seeker`> a 42" TV will just about fit 2m
<ali1234> i only have a 24" monitor
<Seeker`> depends on how many sides you want to cover. I could imagine that 1m would be sufficient for 3 sides of a 24" monitor.
<ali1234> well i suppose i'll want to do the second monitor as well, thinking about it
<Seeker`> I think the corners may be a bit tight on a smaller monitor, so you might want to actually cut the strips, which would involve soldering, and possibly crimping connectors, which gets more pricy
<Seeker`> you might want to do all 4 sides of a desktop monitor
<ali1234> why?
<Seeker`> because it is more likely to not be touching the desk. My TV has pretty much no visibility of the wall behind it underneath, whereas desktop monitors do
<bigcalm[xoom]> Howdy peeps
<zleap> hi
<popey> hello bigcalm[xoom]
<bigcalm[xoom]> Howdy pope
<bigcalm[xoom]> What's happening while I'm in Worcester?
<zleap> nite all
<brobeans> hey guys. my graphics set isnt detected in 11.10. i've tried updating and searching for driver with no luck. would like to be able to increase the res
<brobeans> what options do i have to try and resolve the issue?
<BigRedS> brobeans: usually tracking down the appropriate driver for the card
<BigRedS> generally googling the name of the card and "ubuntu" helps
<BigRedS> IRC's a bit dead at the moment, might be worth trying during the day, and with the name of teh card
<brobeans> lol...i did the above, should probs just point that out whenever asking such questions. hence why i came here
<brobeans> thanks anyway  :)
<BigRedS> yeah, sorry, I'm uselesswith that sort of thing
<diplo> brobeans, any idea of make of card ?
<brobeans> intel 82Q35 Express
<diplo> Hmm most intel software just works, not used that one myself
<brobeans> tried changing the settings in term, but i'd rather actually have the appropriate resolution. pc has DVI connector, no VGA, and the screen is VGA. so DVI to VGA adapter, with VGA cable to the screen
<brobeans> not entirely sure but maybe thats why it isnt detected correctly?
<diplo> Could be, xorg is set via what is sent from the monitor now adays
<diplo> can't remember the name of what is sent
<diplo> But you can force it in xorg.conf
<brobeans> will doing so cause screen lag?
<diplo> Wouldn't have thought so, I've never had issues before
<brobeans> well i'll give it a go anywho then :) thanks
<diplo> Seems you can try setting driver in xorg to intel and force parameters there
<brobeans> i shall google a help article
<diplo> Just trying to find something myself, my xorg knowledge has dwindled over last few years as i never touch it
<o0000o> some f'ing co'k munch tried to remote view me 2 times a few mins ago, how do I access a log of recently attempted incoming VNC connections so I can blacklist this noob hacker's IP?
<AlanBell> o0000o: turn off desktop sharing, and stop mapping the port through at the router
<diplo> See if there is a vnc log file in /var/log or check syslog matbe ?
<diplo> maybe*
<diplo> brobeans, From initial googling i can't find posts of vga->dvi connectors causing issues so maybe not that
<diplo> Have you tried in #ubuntu , alot busier than here at this time of night
<brobeans> ah ok, thanks for looking at that. im just looking at the xorg.conf changes
<o0000o> AlanBell: don't worry, I found out about this attempted remote view 'cos I set my desktop sharing to ask for my confirmation.
<brobeans> strange that it didnt detect the screen
<brobeans> yeah i asked in #ubuntu but no one answered
<o0000o> if this noob hacker trys to VNC me again, same thing will happen, I'll click 'DECLINE' on the pop-up window.
<diplo> o0000o, it's automated normally... i had vnc open on a box at home and someone tried installing a windows virus
<diplo> Best just to block the ports
<o0000o> diplo: I find that hard to believe
<diplo> they just have a script to check ip ranges for open ports, if they find them they try and push a virus
<diplo> Why, it's simple
<brobeans> what vnc software are you using?
<o0000o> Vinagre
<o0000o> comes with Ubuntu usualy
<brobeans> surely if the wanted to view your screen, they could just disable user warning?
<o0000o> brobeans: lol, how would they do that?
<brobeans> that way they could bypass the accept/decline screen
<brobeans> well i dont know enough about that particular software, thats why i was being vague
<AlanBell> brobeans: not really, that is what the confirmation thing is for
<o0000o> look, I can't jus' go firewalling all the ports everywhere!, I need to use the Internet sometimes you know.
<jacobw> 80+443
<AlanBell> however, I wouldn't really advise having a vnc port open to the internet
<jacobw> definately not
<o0000o> not even if it requires my confirmation?
<AlanBell> o0000o: inbound connections should be whitelisted and mapped specifically where you want them
<diplo> o0000o, Block all incoming
<diplo> All outgoing are normally left open
<diplo> on most routers
<AlanBell> a standard domestic router should be set up like that, all closed inbound and all open outbound
<o0000o> could someone jus' tall me the port for VNC and samba?, not as safe but a lot easyer.
<AlanBell> and then you configure it the way you want it
<o0000o> tell*
<o0000o> I could jus' block VNC and Samba port
<AlanBell> you want windows shares going over the internet?
<AlanBell> really, blacklist by default and open by exception
<o0000o> what?
<AlanBell> and anyhow, are you running a public IP on your computer, is the router not doing NAT for you?
<AlanBell> have you set your computer up as a DMZ host on the router or something?
<brobeans> unless its someone on your network?
<o0000o> Idk!, oneday I enable Samba shares, another day I enabled VNC with my confirmation.
<AlanBell> o0000o: are you behind a domestic router?
<o0000o> I'm a hardware techie, not a programer damn it!
<brobeans> plug in a nice corporate firewall then :)
<brobeans> sorry...not useful
<AlanBell> oh, you are on a 3mobile dongle?
<o0000o> 3G Mobile GSM router/connection (it sucks ass)
<AlanBell> right, in that case you are directly on the internet
<o0000o> AlanBell: how you respond in less than 1 sec?
<diplo> heh, i wondered that
<diplo> :D
<diplo> ah he whois'd you i reckon
 * o0000o is paranoid now
<AlanBell>  /whois and whois
<diplo> :D
 * o0000o is scared now
<AlanBell> want to be terrified :)
 * diplo recommends o0000o gets a proper router with a 3g connection dongle option
 * o0000o is devising plans for a big ass faraday cage
<diplo> We use drayteks at work, allows you to plug a 3g dongle in as backup
<diplo> But in your case you could use it as default
<o0000o> I am poor
<diplo> Could also then share with anyone else
<diplo> Oh :(
<o0000o> no software fix?
<diplo> ufw then ?
<popey> +1
<o0000o> diplo: I has that installed, but is a little buggy
<diplo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UFW
<o0000o> what shud I block?
<diplo> Really, it's worked fine for me
<diplo> block all incoming
<diplo> that doc should help
<o0000o> but I have a local net I need incoming
<o0000o> how I workaround that?
<ali1234> firewall by interface
<o0000o> ???
<diplo> ufw allow from 192l.168/ bleh
<ali1234> yeah, or network mask
<o0000o> but won't block all incoming overide that rule?
<diplo> it's explained in that link i posted
<diplo> that will allow all local traffic
<AlanBell> block all incomming, and then add exceptions
<ali1234> the rules are ordered. so you can allow all then block specific things, or block all then allow specific things
<diplo> Or you could change the default port for VNC to something random
<ali1234> eh, that will work for about 5 minutes :)
<diplo> :)
<ali1234> the UFW interface is pretty simple, and it has a big "on/off" button so if you mess up you can just turn it off and start over
<o0000o> soo, exceptions added are given a priority overide against the 'block all incoming' option, but 'block all incoming' is left preseverd for the ofther non-exceptioned protocals and addresses?
<ali1234> yeah basically
<AlanBell> o0000o: on the plus side, you have nothing much interesting under port 1000 open http://paste.ubuntu.com/838458/
<o0000o> I don't wanna know this stuff or think about this stuff!
<diplo> o0000o, By a router then :)
 * o0000o curls up into a corner
<diplo> buy*
<ali1234> often 3g connections have multiple APNs
<ali1234> some give you public IP, some don't
<ali1234> so you could switch to one that doesn't
<ali1234> maybe, depending on your provider
<o0000o> so much information I really don't want the burdon of
<o0000o> thx for the help, but, you know, I wanna be dangerously ignorant about this.
<AlanBell> so get ADSL and a router
<diplo> Will take all but 5-10 mins to set up o0000o
<diplo> that doc explains it all
<AlanBell> and turn on firewalling if connecting directly to the internet, or don't run services that open ports that you don't want to be opened to the world
<o0000o> my spine shudders jus' thinking about this stuff
<diplo> :P
<diplo> It's why so many windows machines have viruses :)
<o0000o> I'm scared, I want my blankie!
<o0000o> D':
<diplo> If you want to use a  computer you don't need to be a nerd but you either need to learn some basics or get a router to cover your arse :)
<o0000o> diplo: should I strap it to my arse with Cat 5e or Cat 6?
<o0000o> patch or crossover
<diplo> Bit of both
<o0000o> m'kay
<o0000o> scary to think I'm a qualified IT Technician eh?
<o0000o> my spine shudders jus' thinking about it
<o0000o> XD
<diplo> heh
<o0000o> afk
<jacobw> zzz
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-12
<diplo> heh gn all!
<jacobw> dude, its morning now ;)
<jacobw> bah >:|
<penguin42> heck the recaptcha captures are getting almost too hard for me to read
<directhex> penguin42: they're running out of source material! Only books in ancient greek to turn into captchas!
<penguin42> directhex: I think they're going to start using Korean next
<Azelphur> If you fork something under the GPL and the copyright header contains the project name / author, should you change those or leave them intact?
<Azelphur> because I know there's the whole "You shouldn't fork it under our name" thing but there's also the "You shouldn't modify the copyright header" thing
<BigRedS> Azelphur: Generally, people seem to add their name to it
<Azelphur> I see
<BigRedS> but you'd need legal advice if you're after, er, legal advice :)
<Azelphur> haha, was hoping it'd be a known thing seeing as lots of people fork things
<BigRedS> ah, no, i think it's just accepted that most things under the GPL are done so by people more interested in seeing its spirit upheld than necessarily its letter
<Azelphur> indeed
<BigRedS> so most people aren't *that* concerned about sticking to the minutae of it
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<ali1234> it depends if the project ame is trademarked or not
<ali1234> like firefox is trademarked
<BigRedS> yeah, hence iceweasel and whatever the one in Arch is
<BigRedS> er, parabola I suppose. Arch doesn't mind not-that-free
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> otoh if it isn't a project in the grip of commercial marketing companies, nobody will care
<ali1234> like if you fork gcc and don't rename it, nobody will care
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> if you fork firefox and don't rename it, expect lawyers to contact you if it gets popular
<Azelphur> xD
<gord> if you fork gcc and don't rename it no one will care because no one will ever know about it
<Azelphur> ali1234: tis pretty funny, some dev just released a decompiler for sourcemod plugins (source engine game server plugins) and  there are a bunch of people panicing because they have released plugins to people with passwords for a shared MySQL db in them, rofl
<ali1234> errrrr.....
<Azelphur> "If you did that, your security was already compromised ages ago"
<ali1234> you don't need a decompiler to get that information
<Azelphur> exactly haha
<ali1234> strings or wireshark will get it for you i bet
<Azelphur> yep, exactly what I said
<ali1234> so what language are they written in anyway?
<Azelphur> I was even friendly enough to offer the worried people some support in rewriting their plugins in a more security conscious manner lol
<Azelphur> ali1234: it's a custom language
<ali1234> what's it like?
<Azelphur> ali1234: I think you'd like it tbh, C like syntax, it's built on top of this http://www.compuphase.com/small.htm
<ali1234> is it anyway related to QuakeC?
<Azelphur> ali1234: the guy who made it is rather brilliant, he got ninja'd by the mozilla developers and works on jaegermonkey now
<Azelphur> I don't think so no
<ben1u> hello, is it possible to change the weekdays in ClearWeather Screenlets to German language?
<anth21> testing 1 2 3
<danfish> morning all!
<AlanBell> morning
<danfish> 12.04 installed on this laptop and seems ok
<danfish> AlanBell: how are the chickens coping in this cold snap?
<AlanBell> I found a frozen egg this morning, it had a crack in it due to expansion of the contnet
<AlanBell> content
<AlanBell> generally they are fine, I just give them a bit of extra corn to keep them warm
<AlanBell> they have a fast metabolism and quite a high body temperature
 * danfish has a pair of ducks arriving next month :)
<AlanBell> wow
<danfish> a pair of gressinghams - apparently they are very aggressive towards foxes
<AlanBell> boy/girl pair?
<danfish> yup
<danfish> "crispy" and "peking"
<christel> hrmm, does ducks lay eggs? well, obviously they do, what i mean is... are they as useful as chickens in the egg production department? :)
<AlanBell> they are not as productive
<AlanBell> and you have to collect the eggs quick and cook them well, the shells are a bit porus
<AlanBell> http://www.omlet.co.uk/guide/guide.php?view=Ducks&cat=Eggs&sub=eggs
<daubers> Morning
<popey> morning all
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes to cook some lovely green back bacon for breakfast, perhaps with an egg or three
<popey> mmmmm bacon
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> good morrow
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<popey> pip pip
<brobostigon> morning popey
<dwatkins> I am collecting USB cables, there are many types.
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> 16km. -2Â°C. Argh :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: A-B, A-MiniB, A-MicroB, MicroB-FemaleA (OTG!)...
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: absolutely, far too many of the little things
<MartijnVdS> My legs hurt.
<dwatkins> Well if you will run 16km, MartijnVdS ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yes that might have something to do with it ;)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Kwabena Aning] A standalone java/jar application from Scala sources using Proguard - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/325
 * danfish has just put cyanogen's ICS on my desire - so far very good
 * MartijnVdS looks at his galaxy nexus
 * brobostigon hugs his htc dream, but wants something new.
<jacobw> sigh, no ics without nexus s
<MartijnVdS> Haven't they ported ICS to the N1 as well?
 * dwatkins has a HTC Desire HD with CM7
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: CM have
 * jacobw has DHD with MIUI 2.2.10
<czajkowski> danfish: I was cheated!
<dwatkins> jacobw: I hadn't seen that distro, how does it compare to stock Android and/or Cyanogenmod?
<jacobw> dwatkins: its much better
<jacobw> dwatkins: improved UI
<dwatkins> This reminds me, I should backup my SD card and savegames ;)
<danfish> czajkowski: twas a very late decision to abort!
<czajkowski> danfish: indeed
<jacobw> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls_ReDhHO2g
<jacobw> obv, not stable.
<jacobw> but, ics on dhd!
<penguin42> dhd?
<dwatkins> Desire HD
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> oh dear, the french really do use Mo and Go for sizes
<dwatkins> penguin42: yeah, Megaoctet, etc.
<jacobw> :|
<penguin42> dwatkins: I thought it was an affliction reserved for standards docs
<dwatkins> penguin42: there's an institute in Paris which is charged with protecting the French language, and ensuring that things like CDs are called "disque compact" instead of using the English words.
<jacobw> i guess it solves the Mb || MB ? problem
<penguin42> dwatkins: Yeh
<danfish> off-topic, but at supermarket loaf of bread = Â£1.50 vs Â£1 for 1.5kg of flour (=3 loaves + kids having lots of fun!)
<penguin42> (+ electricity, washing, yeast costs)
<gordonjcp> danfish: totally
<gordonjcp> yeast is like 50p for 200g
<dwatkins> I'm quite tempted to get a bread making machine, but I guess you can do it in the oven easily enough.
<dwatkins> "Remember, bread making is not an exact science"
<gordonjcp> I don't really "get" breadmaking machines
<gordonjcp> they do all the fun bits
<dwatkins> heh yeah, my brother has one that they use every day - saves a lot of time
<gordonjcp> what I've started doing is just making the dough really wet and leaving it overnight
<dwatkins> I guess it's fun at first but if you have to do it every day it becomes a chore.
<gordonjcp> pap it in the oven at 6am and go back to bed for half an hour
<dwatkins> What does leaving it over night do to the dough?
<gordonjcp> well the gluten chains link up slowly without kneading
<gordonjcp> it does need to be quite wet though
<dwatkins> aha, I see
<penguin42> gordonjcp: '6am' - what's that?
<gordonjcp> it's when I get up to stick bread in the oven, on baking days
<TheOpenSourcerer> We use our bread maker very frequently. It's the most used "kitchen gadget" evah!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Before we go to bed, stick some bits in the machine, wake up and we have fresh bread :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great for quickly knocking up pizza dough, takes 45 minutes and happens whilst you are doing something else.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great for making roll dough or naan bread dough or loads of other bread-based things. A very, very useful device IMO.
 * brobostigon imagines a margarita. :)
<gordonjcp> I like making pizza dough though
<gordonjcp> or any bread dough
 * MartijnVdS is baking banana cake
<gordonjcp> mix it up, let it rise a bit, knock it back, then knead it
<gordonjcp> and the problem is people don't knead their bread enough
<gordonjcp> the simple answer is to stick on the 12" of Blue Monday
<directhex> when i was an undergrad, we bread machined all the time
<gordonjcp> it's the right speed and length
<directhex> constant bread mahine workflow, thanks to someone always being awake due to switching to the wrong timezone to play online games
<MartijnVdS> Banana cake > *
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> banana cake with chocolate > banana cake > *
<gordonjcp> oooo
<gordonjcp> directhex: you should just start a bakery
<gordonjcp> directhex: like the kind of underground supper club movement where people set up "restaurants" in their homes
<gordonjcp> except do it with a bakery
<MartijnVdS> YeastEasy?
<gordonjcp> heh
<BigRedS> If I telnet to a machine on tcp/143 and do "1 login user pass", is that login or plain auth?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you can query it for supported auth methods
<BigRedS> yeah, i just know that one works and I'm wondering why imapsync refuses to
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: which breadmaker have u got?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it's not encrypted anyway
<BigRedS> No, I know. That bit isn't an issue.
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: A Panasonic one. We've had it for quite a while now can't remember which model, but it's one without a viewing window
<BigRedS> it's teh mail not moving that is :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: do you have access to the server log?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: maybe it has more details
<BigRedS> yeah, it just logs success when I log in and nothing when imapsync, er, doesn't.
<BigRedS> I think I'm just going to scp this all to anotehr server and see if that one's any more compliant
 * MartijnVdS wanders off to find a floppy cable
<MartijnVdS> (yes!)
 * BigRedS finds a typo in his imapsync script
 * BigRedS feels a bit embarrased :)
<MartijnVdS> in the password bit?
<BigRedS> maybe
<jacobw> ha
<jacobw> BigRedS: what does imapsync do?
<BigRedS> jacobw: it logs into two imap servers and downloads the mail from one and puts it in the other
<BigRedS> it's really handy for migrating peopel between servers which disagree on what an imap index should look like
<jacobw> BigRedS: can it do two mailboxes on the same server?
<jacobw> i see
<jacobw> i.e. cyrus and dovecot?
<BigRedS> jacobw: well, you just invoke it once per mailbox
<BigRedS> so normally you concoct a script which you pass a list of usernames and passwords to
<BigRedS> and generally you try to write $password rather than $pasword :)
<BigRedS> but, yeah, this was to go from an ageing vpopmail (so courier) system to a dovecot one
<AlanBell> an SIS graphics card is bad right? http://paste.ubuntu.com/839162/
<gordonjcp> let me fire up the Celeron D machine here with an SiS card just to show you...
<AlanBell> just booted precise on it, graphics are very glitchy, to the point of unuseable
<AlanBell> it is doing unity3d, but badly
<AlanBell> this is a celeron 2Ghz
<gordonjcp> when I installed it at first, I thought that 10.04 had been updated from the original nicotine-and-baby-shit browns to the bruise-and-septicaemia purples colours of 11.10
<gordonjcp> no, it was just horribly corrupt
 * BigRedS realises where he recognises teh colour of his fosdem t-shirt from
<AlanBell> yeah, this is a mess
 * gordonjcp wonders what the final graphics for the 2012 Ubuntus will look like
<gordonjcp> can we have green this time, or maybe blue?
<gordonjcp> Android is going for blacks and greys, that could look quite striking
<AlanBell> right, no mum&dadbuntu today, new motherboard and monitor first
<AlanBell> in fact, there isn't much to salvage, new motherboard, ram, monitor, might as well get a new computer
<gordonjcp> you know how there are websites that will pick a palette of colours from a photograph, to help with things like web design
<gordonjcp> wouldn't it be cool if the Gtk themes picked up colours from the current background image
<BigRedS> oooh, that'd be neat
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I was looking at some new PCs on scam, box.co.uk etc
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: I thought about doing that for my website
<gordonjcp> so I could upload a new header image and it would tweak the CSS to match
<BigRedS> I've no idea about colour co-ordination, that would help a treat :)
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: it's got to be better than 2010's delightful shades of British Leyland browns, and 2011's infected wound tones
<jacobw> that'd be awesome
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I see this company Zoostorm cropping up on a lot of supplier's websites
<AlanBell> lets try unity2d on this . . .
<AlanBell> that did not go well
<BigRedS> my mum rather liked the purples
<gordonjcp> I was quite tempted to buy one of their core i5s
<gordonjcp> I don't really know what the difference between the different flavours of "Core" CPU is
<BigRedS> bigger numbers are better
<gordonjcp> well I figured that much out
<BigRedS> Oh
<BigRedS> That's all there is to hardware as far as I can get my head round :)
<gordonjcp> core i5s are a bit more expensive than core i3
<gordonjcp> and core i7 is *way* more expensive than i5
<penguin42> gordonjcp: i7's tend to be quad cores with hyperthread
<gordonjcp> oh okay, i3 is only dual-core, i5 is quad
<gordonjcp> aha, i3 doesn't do virtualisation?
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Generally the xxxx series are newer than the xxx series; so my 2 year old i7 is an i860 and the newer ones are something like 2xxx
<penguin42> gordonjcp: http://ark.intel.com/  is good for finding exact intel specs
<gordonjcp> I just want one with graphics that doesn't entirely suck and that supports virtualisation ;-)
<popey> AlanBell: i had same issue on my sisters computer
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Watch out, the feature set varies within the i range - so they might lose a feature on the bottom end of each range
<penguin42> gordonjcp: But even some of hte newer Celeron's list VT (virtualistion) - e.g. http://ark.intel.com/products/42772/Intel-Celeron-Processor-E3400-(1M-Cache-2_60-GHz-800-MHz-FSB)
<gordonjcp> I wonder if that would be better overall
<gordonjcp> it's academic this month anyway since I have half a tank of heating oil and a large vet's bill to pay for :-/
<SuperEngineer> good day to you gentlemen, gentleladies & non-discrimated-gentlefolk all
<BigRedS> what about the non-gentles?
<SuperEngineer> golly gosh!   obut of course!  ...& good day  non-gentles  [whew, that was close]
<popey> ar
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> Hm. Why do none of these things that have a "share your location" thing ever let you say what your location is
<gordonjcp> well, it's supposed to pick it up from your GPS or celltower
<BigRedS> yeah, or IP address
<BigRedS> it's just often wrong
<BigRedS> I just wonder why it's assumed that the user doens't know where they are
<BigRedS> or doesn't want to say and would rather the phone/computer/website guessed
<BigRedS> It's never mattered, just seems odd
<SuperEngineer> anyone testing 12.04 *and* tried it with a Huwawei 3G broadband dongle by any chance?  [as in bug #868034]
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 868034 in modemmanager (Ubuntu) "Huawei E220 and E1550 can't connect on Ubuntu 11.10" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868034
 * SuperEngineer thanks the lubbotu for saving copy & paste ;)
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004NT4GPO
<popey> not a bad deal
<popey> 12 quid for 32 AA batteries
<mgdm> nice
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004NT888A AAA also cheap
<o0000o> hey guys, I jus' got  a second-hand really messy gunked up old Gameboy Color from my aunt, I cleaned it up good and is lookin' great!
<o0000o> the screen has a little condensation underneath it though :-(
<penguin42> popey: www.7dayshop.com is a good place generally for cheap batteries
<o0000o> penguin42: Amazon has most of 7dayshop, and much more, better off with Amazon
<o0000o> 7dayshop sell on Amazon
<penguin42> o0000o: Yep it varies a bit
<o0000o> anyone here know where I can get a good GBC flashcart?
<o0000o> no DS please, just GBC
<o0000o> am waitin' on a Cybiko Extreme from Ebay
<o0000o> the battery is solder inside, is gonna be dead, prolly not gonna turn on, anyone know a similar Lithium bat I could solder in place of the old one?
<SuperEngineer> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/YIlpMXHyiWw/from-the-nuremberg-toy-fair-a-new-linux-system-for-rc-cars
<SuperEngineer> btw... anyone know of a way to filter an RSS feed in Liferea [i.e. Slashdot} to make it less boring?
<SuperEngineer> ok,. next beg:. have I 'security tied down' Chromium too much [specifically G+ Angry Birds} or is it geniunely having probs?
<diplo> Evening all
<zleap> hi
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Nice car; I see that site is really attempting to get ladies involved in model building
<penguin42> erm sorry, they must have confused the word 'model'
<SuperEngineer> penguin42:   que?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: When I follow the link to the page describing the linux based car it's very nice but has scantily dressed ladies playing with their models
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: wot "linux based car"?  are you schmoking something naughty by any chance?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Indeed that one, and no I'm not!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: http://www.hobbymedia.it/36286/wirc-linux-sistema-di-controllo-via-iphoneandroid-per-modelli-radiocomandati-smart-racer-by-dension
<SuperEngineer> ...ooo - the Radio Control car....
<SuperEngineer> i'll check that link myself
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I mean definitely not the type of dress they should be wearing if they've got their soldering iron out
<SuperEngineer> er -no - that takes me to:  hobby media... WiRC Linux: Sistema di controllo via iPhone/Android per modelli radiocomandati - Smart Racer by Dension
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Yeh which it says uses embedded linux
<SuperEngineer> methinks your browser is pre-empting your night time thoughts for you [I'm putting that as  nicely as I can right now]
<penguin42> sigh, I'm going to have to screenshot this aren't I
<SuperEngineer> yup
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: So on the right side of that page is there not something entitled 'Craft RC...' with a young lady paying attention to her circuit board
<SuperEngineer> hang on- got it- you're looking at the "advertÂ£ column on the right hand side, areen't you!
<SuperEngineer> you naughty person
<SuperEngineer> train your brain to ignore rubbish lkie that
<penguin42> well I do try
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: but I keep worrying about them; I mean I hope she's taken the batteries out
<SuperEngineer> ooooH... dear penguin42 .... if you send me your a/c number & pin number I can rectify that for you!
<SuperEngineer> no!
<SuperEngineer> train your brain
<SuperEngineer> p.s. I'm sure she took the batteries outr - don't worry ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...and inn view of [advert] content on the link I posted which may "distract", I suggest nobody else follows the link.
<diplo> Anyone any good with Libreoffice ?
<diplo> Not used any office apps fora  few years, bit rusty :P
<gordonjcp> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/827382
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 827382 in totem (Ubuntu) "Coherence uPNP plugin missing in totem in Oneiric" [Low,Fix released]
<gordonjcp> more high-quality bug fixing in Ubuntu
<gordonjcp> "oh it doesn't work so we took it out of the description"
<gordonjcp> yeah, brilliant
<DJones> Hmmh, am I meant to be able to spot an obvious difference in 12.04 compared to 11.10 desktops
<ali1234> depends how up to date you are
<DJones> This is a fresh install
<ali1234> there was just a change made that makes unity only consider windows on the current workspace when using the switcher
<ali1234> which i've been asking for for like a year :)
<DJones> Heh
 * brobostigon has a play with 12.04 lts from live-sd with persistence.
<brobostigon> on his eeepc 900*
<DJones> I'm just trying it in virtualbox
<brobostigon> it certainly uses more ram than standard debian sid, running gnome-shell
<DJones> This VM only has 1Gb ram, 64Mb graphics, Unity 3D was a bit flaky, lots of screen artifacts, but 2D is nice and smooth
<brobostigon> normal unity is working well here, not issues yet,
<popey> unity is not great in a VM, much better on bare metal
<brobostigon> agreed.
<DJones> I was guessing that would be the reason
<popey> and really needs 1GB RAM min
<brobostigon> i think i should be fine mostly, with 1Gb of persistence, if i need to install softwarem abd or do upgrades.
<brobostigon> popey: i agree, i only have a terminal open, and only have 129mb free.
<popey> how are you measuring free memory?
<brobostigon> popey: df -h -T
<ali1234> of my 16GB, 4GB is used by programs, and 10GB is used by disk cache
<popey> oh, disk space not memory
<brobostigon> popey: top.
<brobostigon> ram,*
<brobostigon> brainfart
<popey> which number?
<brobostigon> sorry
<ali1234> the top memory users are compiz and firefox at 300m each
<popey> brobostigon: how much 'cached' ?
<brobostigon> Mem:   1016764k total,   892784k used,   123980k free,    45320k buffers
 * SuperEngineer is guessing all those folks in 3rd world countries can *easiy* do that :(
<popey> brobostigon: and the next line?
<brobostigon> Swap:   690172k total,     9884k used,   680288k free,   570964k cached
<popey> brobostigon: you have loads of free RAM âº
<ali1234> lolz
<brobostigon> popey: ok, hmm, i think i need to do more research, oh, i see now, cached, damn,
 * brobostigon scp's popey a beer.
<ahayzen> This is a useful page for explaining things :)
<ahayzen> http://www.linuxatemyram.com/
<brobostigon> continued brainfart,
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> takes some time to get used to the global menus again, after being in gnome-shell
<popey> wont have to for long
<brobostigon> yes, the other thingie, cant remember the name, but yes, i did read about.
<brobostigon> do you happen to have the ppa addr?
<popey> oh, you mean HUD?
<brobostigon> yes.
<popey> I wasn't talking about that.
<brobostigon> oh.
<popey> menus will be switchable between global and integrated either in 12.04 or 12.10
<brobostigon> ah, i dont remember reading about that, that is new, interesting.
<ging> i'm so close to installing unity
<brobostigon> has anyone actually tried HUD, is it usable, i mean, fairly stably, i dont instability, i am used to debian sid.
<popey> i have used it
<brobostigon> mind*
<popey> its not finished yet
<ali1234> the latest unity is very crashy
<ali1234> crashes about once a day here
<popey> I've not had that
<brobostigon> popey: ok, so i should wait abit.
<popey> maybe multi monitor related
<ali1234> normally it crashes while pushing against the edge of the screen
<ali1234> then the screen goes black and you are dumped at the login screen
<popey> nice
<ali1234> probably xorg actually
<brobostigon> popey: second question, can turn it on and off ? if i do try it?
<ali1234> "just don't press alt"
<ali1234> "what do you mean your program already uses alt for something else?"
<brobostigon> eek
<brobostigon> eeek
<ali1234> also you can just uninstall the ppa
<brobostigon> and kill the installed packages.
<popey> as I said, it's not finished
<daubers> I've not had any issues with hud tbh
<daubers> It's quite swish on the odd occasion I use it
<brobostigon> ok, what is the ppa addr?
<popey> !hud
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS will include the first step in a major new approach to application interfaces, the Head-Up Display, or HUD, which will ultimately replace menus in Unity applications. See http://ubottu.com/y/hud for the background on this and discuss it in #ubuntu+1 or #ubuntu-offtopic
<brobostigon> thank you popey
<ali1234> also, i TOLD you they wanted to kill menus
<ali1234> but did you listen? no, you did not
<popey> do you iron your grumpy trousers before you put them on? âº
<brobostigon> afterall, if something breaks, am in no loss, so i can risk.
<ali1234> who here has ever had to use a program in a different language that you can't speak?
<ali1234> like chinese
<ali1234> how is that going to work out with hud?
<ali1234> i don't even know how to type those characters let alone form words
<ali1234> but with normal menus i can guess what they do based on their layout
<ali1234> like quit is going to be the bottom item in the first menu
<ging> i installed unity onto xubuntu and now it looks wrong
<ging> ah i made it worse by trying to change the theme
<brobostigon> ok, looks like, the ppa, doesnt have a unity HUD version it is able to install,
<SuperEngineer> I wish you all a good night night & leave you with tonight's thought...
<SuperEngineer> ...I wonder what noise a bee makes when it farts?
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<ging> bees can't fart, if you feed them cola they explode
 * czajkowski frowns at ging 
 * popey tickles exobuzz 
<exobuzz> hi .. *snigger*
 * exobuzz gives popey some manlove in return
<popey> :D
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tottenham Court Road/Bracknell 11/12th February 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=86
<brobostigon> thats interesting, alt-tab, has show desktop. afterall, unity has a desktop, gnome-shell doesnt.
<brobostigon> sudo apt-get install synaptic aptitude
<brobostigon> wwops.
<brobostigon> something else, inside alt-tab, if you hit arrow down, while in alt-tab, it shows the windows within that app.
<brobostigon> i like that,
<brobostigon> weird, sometimes, i can have terminal open, but global menu, shows the menus, for an entirly different app, applies to any app, not just terminal.
<brobostigon> silly thing is, when you hit arrow down, even with only one app window open, it shows two windows, that are the same.
<ali1234> alt-tab is silly in just about every way
<ali1234> on every desktop that implements it
<brobostigon> ali1234: there are some good implementations. like in BeOS.
<popey> brobostigon: alt and the key above tab also let you alt tab with the window showing
<brobostigon> popey: let me try,
<brobostigon> oh, my mistake, it is showing the seperate gnome-terminal tabs, i think.
<brobostigon> no, it is not, hmm.
<brobostigon> popey: i tink i have found something, it shows one window, for other apps, withi one app window open, other than gnome-terminal, shows two, always, with even one window open.
<directhex> beos! ^_^
<brobostigon> :)
<siamese>  /server irc.2ch.net
<bigcalm> No
<brobostigon> directhex: i used BeOS as a teenager, in the mid 90's. so way before most people used and heard about it. and now, support haiku-os, but doing source compiles, and tests and file bugs.
<directhex> i paid money for beos. money!
<brobostigon> i did personally, also, for x86 R5, and powerpc R5.
<exobuzz> if you want to be an amiga hobbyist you are expected to pay serious money for either os4 or morphos.. no thanks!
<brobostigon> in roughly, 1999
<exobuzz> closed source, and gang mentalities all round.
<ali1234> amiga is still going?
<brobostigon> haiku is the future, :)
<exobuzz> if you are stupid enough yeh heh
<exobuzz> i say that as an amiga user.. amiga users are very annoying types.. the ones that are left.. mostly
<ali1234> you would have to be even more stubborn than me to still be using one, so that makes perfect sense
<brobostigon> i am annoying, i still use BeOS, in a way, by using haiku.
<gordonjcp> haiku!
<exobuzz> i cross compiled an app to run on morphos and tested it on a time limited version of morphos.. im not going to fork out 150euros for that.. they have a funny idea of getting users on board.. or even devs.. i doubt id do that again
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: I always say that Windows is like having a BMW or Audi or something, it's obviously expensive, it's obviously had a lot of time spent on details, but it's a pain in the arse
<gordonjcp> Linux is like a Landrover, no two are quite the same
<gordonjcp> and you can make it into whatever you want, work on it in your driveway, and people all over the world will help you with it
<gordonjcp> but I prefer BeOS, which is like an old Citroen
<exobuzz> ubuntu users are not that dissimilar to amiga users.. it aint a compliment.. heh
<gordonjcp> everything about it is totally different to what you expect, you hate it for the first hour then never want to drive anything else again once you're used to it, and they don't really make it any more
<ali1234> linux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LRRvQH7alc
<exobuzz> ali1234, haha
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: agreed, yes, quite,
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: exception being haiku-os.
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: well yeah
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: I see Haiku as being a bit like the 2CV replacement parts guys
<gordonjcp> you can build a brand new 2CV
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: and at the moment, it has surpassed BeOS in many ways, and improved upon,
<gordonjcp> everything is available down to the last screw, *except* the gearbox shells
<gordonjcp> haiku is pretty awesome
<gordonjcp> I just wish it did power management so I could run it on my laptop without the fans screaming
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: interesting thing to know, is BE opensourced most of the major components, so, made things alot easier with the haiku guys and gals.
<gordonjcp> yup
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: i had trouble with that also, my eepc almost overheated.
<ali1234> what were those little sit down electric scooter type things called?
<gordonjcp> I should get back into Haiku
<gordonjcp> ali1234: dodgems?
<gordonjcp> Sinclair C5
<ali1234> yeah they were like a dodgem
<ali1234> yeah!
<ali1234> i always get that mived up with 2CV
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: i do a compile every few weeks, and have a good time, :)
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: once I get a few other projects off the bench I'll maybe get back into Haiku
<gordonjcp> ali1234: even more annoying that there's a Citroen C5
<gordonjcp> makes googling for Sinclair C5 bits tricky
<gordonjcp> not to mention ebay
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: as popey said a while ago, i actually have the time, to persue these things, as then, i had no real work.
<ali1234> why... why... would you do that?
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: and still dont, no one wants me.
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: :-/
<gordonjcp> I need to learn ARM embedded development *really* quickly
<brobostigon> ok, need sleep, busy day tmrw,
<brobostigon> good night everyone.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-04
<daftykins> brobostigon: hai o/
<popey> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> yo popey
<daubers> Morning
<bigcalm> Evening
<bigcalm> (I wish it was)
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, folks! :-D
<Myrtti> meh
<daubers> Sometimes I wish my job involved less spreadsheets
<AlanBell> morning all
<Laney> zoom zoom
<daubers> The more I read into project management techniques, the more I think that one size does not fit all
<mungbean> has anyone has luck with john lewis price guarantee *before* purchasing the item? argos have it Â£10 cheaper but i have Â£50 JL vouchers to spend
<mungbean> most stuff on their site seems to revolve around refund of the difference after purchase, based on certain T&C
<Laney> i think you can just go to customer service in store
<Laney> call the store up and check
<mungbean> gonna be buying online :(
<Laney> http://www.johnlewis.com/help/nkupricematchform.aspx
<mungbean> thanks, 'ill see how i get on
<mungbean> th Â£50 voucher was a goodwill gesture for momunental cockups by them
<mungbean> which cheered me up somewhat
<SuperMatt> yo
<SuperMatt> is there a way to ensure that I have all the default packages installed?
<popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> note the caret
<SuperMatt> ta
<SuperMatt> because at the moment in raring, I don't have any background
<SuperMatt> just blackness
<SuperMatt> not sure if bug or I've removed something
<SuperMatt> looks like maybe bug
<Laney> unity?
<SuperMatt> yuh
<SuperMatt> lemme try gnome
<SuperMatt> not working in gnome either
<Laney> I wonder
<Laney> try: gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.background active true
<SuperMatt> Laney: that worked, thanks
<Laney> worrying
<Laney> that plugin wasn't supposed to be necessary
<SuperMatt> Laney: indeed
<Laney> SuperMatt: care to come to #ubuntu-desktop?
<SuperMatt> sure
<hoover> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<mungbean> hmm i suspect john lewis won't price match on anything anymore as their warranty is 2yrs
<mungbean> so they can argue nothing compares directly with their items
<shauno> depends how narrow their warranty is, it might just be the EU equivalent put into sales-speak
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<brobostigon> good morning BigRedS
 * Laney got richer sounds to price match with JL
<Laney> 5 year warranty by default is swish
<directhex> RS are measurably excellent retailers
<BigRedS> RS are brilliant
<Laney> correct
 * AlanBell likes Richer Sounds too
<directhex> they also pay their taxes
<directhex> which is a rare enough thing these days that it's worth mentioning
<directhex> Â£1.2m in corp tax last year. which is not to be sniffed at
<directhex> it's also an interesting take on the "retail can't compete with amazon" line - RS are profitable UK taxpayers, with often the lowest prices, trained staff, and price matching
<brobostigon> are there any terminal openvpn client end config progs?
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungbean> do richer sounds sell camera lenses though?
<mungbean> sent my request to JL. calumet Â£82, JL Â£99
<mungbean> canon 50mm 1.8 plastic lens
<davmor2> popey: twitter isn't long enough for this, If you hold your hand out flat with your thumb relaxed and floating above your index finger, place the phone on your fingers with the middle on the index finger and then keeping the fingers straight bend in nearest knuckle till the edge of the phone is touching your palm you then get the width of you palm and the length of you thumb to move around the screen.
<davmor2> nearest knuckle to the palm that should of been
<popey> bizarre âº
<davmor2> popey: it's how I hold my s3 I can get to all 4 corners with relative easy
<davmor2> infact the most awkard button is the back button bottom right
<popey> photo pls âº
<davmor2> popey: I will do but after work
<ali1234> popey:  like this http://ubuntuone.com/01nb8ipj3DIWK09VRyGuit
<popey> ah right
<popey> doesn't feel secure like that
<ali1234> yeah someone could easily snatch it
<popey> i meant more slipping from hands
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> stop greasing your phones?
<mungbean> what's the original tweet in question?
<popey> its a very slippy phone
<popey> mungbean: https://twitter.com/popey/status/298385568742649856
<ali1234> i don't like a big phone tbh
<ali1234> nokia C7 in photo is perfect size imo
<popey> yeah, looks it
<davmor2> popey: yes like ali1234 demonstrated, to combat the grip issue buy a leather flip case then you are holding leather rather than glass
<popey> pfffft
<popey> i like my phone naked
<davmor2> popey: as do I normally but I found the plastic back on mine was scrathing slightly
<brobostigon> woop, openvpn working between rpi and my vps.
<popey> corenominal: did you know your ISO images for Waldorf don't fit on a CD?
<popey> corenominal: website says "783M" but nautilus (and the disk burning thing) says they're 821.0 MB which is too big.
<solarcloud> Anyoneneed pocket money ?? Chrome OS: Google offers $3.14159 million in cash rewards to any hacker who can crack its operating system |  http://ow.ly/hnjQ3
<SuperMatt> I love that google makes everything pi related
<SuperMatt> though I would prefer 2.718
<ali1234> how do i use dmsetup to manually specify that a block device has partitions, when i know the partition offsets but the kernel can't correctly determine them for some reason?
<solarcloud> How much does Ubuntu offer ?? I do it for free...
<SuperMatt> Well, I'm not sure canonical have enough money to pay people much to hack it
<SuperMatt> ali1234: I have no idea :/
<dwatkins> solarcloud: could you have found an article not on the Daily Mail? ;)
<dwatkins> What puzzles me is how these exploits are worth so much to Google.
<shauno> I think it's just mind-games.  "joe user" reads that an assumes it's secure if google's willing to put that high a stake up.  and in turn, "joe user" only finds out because the number's big enough to get non-techy press to pay attention
<shauno> if it was just $3.14, nerds would pay attention because it'd be a funny cheque to have framed on the wall, but no-one else would
<SuperMatt> shauno: agreed. It's actuall well in any company's interests to offer such huge sums
<SuperMatt> there's no way microsoft would do that
<SuperMatt> they'd run out of money in a week
<dogmatic69> anyone know of some image clasification software?
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: 'file' or 'identify'?
<dogmatic69> trying to put products for a ecommerce site in the correct category based on the image
<dwatkins> what kind of image, dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> photo image
<dogmatic69> pic of the product etc.
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: reminds me of an excercise in neural networking - the army trained a network to recognise images with tanks undercamoflage, but then they discovered the images with tanks in were all taken on sunny days...
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> ye.
<SuperMatt> doh
<dwatkins> http://neil.fraser.name/writing/tank/ for details
<dogmatic69> I have written something basic which is almost ok. Sure the is something that does better though.
<dwatkins> I guess the problem (as with Google Goggles) is that a product could be photographed from any angle.
<dogmatic69> ye, my idea is in the 'training' phase you have a couple of matches for each product. various angles etc.
<dogmatic69> for the most part in my case there are not to many ways a product can face.
<dogmatic69> My version was just with imagemagick converted to a 15x15 bw and then convert the pixels to 0's and 1's (literal ascii) and use levenstein distance.
<dogmatic69> but levenstein is O(m*n) so pretty slow
<dogmatic69> and requires matching every product with every comparison
<dogmatic69> this looks good http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~ofirpele/FastEMD/
<jonsaint> hi all. im trying to convert a dvd using devede software but it keeps constantly crashing. can anyone recommend an alternative?
<jonsaint> anyone help??
<SuperMatt> jonsaint: arista transcoder
<jonsaint> and that will convert for me to put onto a dvd
<SuperMatt> oh, put on to a dvd
<SuperMatt> uhm
<SuperMatt> don't know
<jonsaint> no, i want it converting forst, then il use k3b to burn
<jonsaint> *first
<SuperMatt> well, artista might do it
<SuperMatt> it does a lot of transcoding stuff
<jonsaint> cheers. il give it a go
<SuperMatt> np
<bigcalm> davmor2: new workstation has been ordered at last :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: so I might see it in a couple of weeks
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice
<davmor2> bigcalm: I thought that dell orders were pretty quick to arrive to be fair
<popey> i need some storage for my sons room
<popey> want to search by size
<bigcalm> davmor2: ship date is likely to be 1 week from now
<popey> this seems impossible
<davmor2> popey: is it on the ikea website too
<bigcalm> popey: have a carpenter hand craft storage for you
<davmor2> popey: failing that try typing bookcase 80cmx190cm or something like that
<davmor2> into google
<popey> might wander to B&Q with a tape measure
<davmor2> popey: you know a visit to Ikea is on the books you may as well get it over and done with ;)
 * AlanBell might pop to B&Q later
<popey> I don't intend to visit Ikea
<AlanBell> want one of these http://www.diy.com/nav/rooms/fires-surrounds/fires/decorative_fires/Blyss-Merida-Real-Flame-Bioethanol-Portable-Fire-12398565?skuId=12919271
<AlanBell> in a google hangout how can I tell it that my flourescent lighting is at 50hz?
<AlanBell> can't see anything in gstreamer-properties or the hangout settings page
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I would be somewhat amazed if your power was not 50Hz ;)
<zleap> i didn;'t think that they worked at 50hz,  due to the strobe effect in factories causing moving parts to appear like they are not moving
<zleap> or isd that the machinery itself at a different frequency
<mungbean> shower mixer tap has broken, jus realised what a nightmare it is to "repair" (=replace)
<mungbean> 1) discontinue models every couple of years 2) profit
<mungbean> 3) require full shower kit instead of just spare part
<zleap> apt-get purge shower
<zleap> hang on sudo apt-get remove shower
<AlanBell> zleap: bigcalm: sure, but lots of things default to 60hz so you get wavy stuff
<popey> our shower is ~12 years old
<zleap> sudo apt-get install newsshower
<zleap> AlanBell, ok
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ah, the world revolves around the USA ;)
<mungbean> zleap: shower requires replacement of tiles pacakge
<zleap> lol
<zleap> apt-get update tiles
<zleap> lol
<mungbean> onlt 5.5 years old
<mungbean> its just the tap that broke :(
<popey> i have so much to get rid of
<mungbean> snapped
<popey> going to take along to my lug this weekend I think
<mungbean> when does the possiblity of oggcamp 13 get discussed?
<popey> dunno, we haven't discussed it yet
<bigcalm> mungbean: as soon as you want to organise it? :)
<mungbean> i haven't listened to UUPC for the last year since my job went crap
<mungbean> need to catch up
<mungbean> i stopped rading those blogs i used to read every day too :(
<egg651> #leave
<brobostigon> how do i block someone from pm'ing me? will a simple ignore work?
<SuperMatt> should do
<SuperMatt> wanna test it?
<SuperMatt> ignore me
<SuperMatt> then tell me when I'm ignored
<brobostigon> thank you, no. i wont test it yet, but maybe will have to on someone.
<SuperMatt> well I'm very happy to be ignored
<SuperMatt> it's a speciality of mine
<SuperMatt> what I'm trying to say is no one likes me
<brobostigon> :(
<solarcloud> Ignorance is bliss !
<solarcloud> Right, on with the show .. Tonight's project : Put Ubuntu on Daddies old 512MB-RAM laptop. It's a Sony vaio from 2004, so this should be interesting .. Wish me luck and "Chucks-away Ginger!!"
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> ooh 512MB RAM may prove a challenge
<solarcloud> thanks for the support !
<daftykins> are you doing the full 12.10 desktop?
<solarcloud> you think it will do it?
<solarcloud> Why, what would you advise ?
<daftykins> i've just seen some versions not cope with booting on that low RAM, you might only be able to run the 'install' option off the menu instead of going into liveCD mode
<solarcloud> I could wait a week and get more RAM ..  Ithnk it will do 2GB anyway...
<daftykins> if that doesn't work, there's always the alternate CD though, or whatever has the text mode installer
<daftykins> you're using 32-bit i assume?
<solarcloud> yep.
<daftykins> well, gl ^_^
<solarcloud> Is Lubuntu a swear word here ?
<daftykins> oh that'll probably boot fine
<daftykins> uses lower resources i'm sure
<solarcloud> .. Ithink Lubuntu is a better option TBHonest..
<daftykins> ja
<daftykins> bbs
<solarcloud> bbs ?
<solarcloud> is that be back soon ?
<MartijnVdS> solarcloud: bulletin board system.. the ones you used to call into with a modem
<solarcloud> oh ok .. is that relevant , if so how ?
<MartijnVdS> that's what BBS used to mean :)
<solarcloud> so why is he using that term ?
<popey> who was it that had a broken shower earlier
<popey> mungbean?
 * solarcloud is confused
<popey> I gleefully said we've had ours 12 years
<popey> it just broke
<MartijnVdS> So.. now showering for a month?
<solarcloud> what's new ?
<popey> need to take it apart and see what's broken
<popey> but not now, not night time while it's wet
<MartijnVdS> popey: but that's the funnest time!
<popey> pfft
 * solarcloud thinks of all the gunk build-up in the shower head .. mmm nice.
<solarcloud> ... go well with an irish soda earl !
<daftykins> an electric shower?
<daftykins> DIY repair of one of those isn't exactly a good idea? :D
<popey> why?
<daftykins> is it one of the Mira ones?
<daftykins> i just wouldn't take any chances around stuff that mixes electric and water :D
<solarcloud> AFAs as the Lubuntu install I've hit a snag .. can't boot from USB .. so I'm burning a copy also it has 1GB RAM not 512MB so I'm going with full 12.10 ...
<daftykins> didn't have USB in the BIOS at all?
<daftykins> sometimes a flash drive appears as another hard disk, you need to swap the priority to have it boot the flash drive, worth checking for that?
<popey> http://www.showerdoc.com/newteam-201-thermostatic-manual-shower-spares
<popey> not much to it
<daftykins> fair enough
<daftykins> does anyone fancy going on the Nexus store and filling in a Guernsey address to see if it accepts it? :)
<daftykins> Google support are basically telling me - Channel Islands != UK, so get lost
<solarcloud> I would but IOM is as off the map as you are..
<daftykins> indeed :(
<daftykins> they hate us
<solarcloud> it called subjugation in action.
<diplo> evening all
<daftykins> heya
<solarcloud> Just outta interest.. Why did canonical put the boot into the idea of a Dev. Rolling release, exactly ?
<popey> we didn't
<solarcloud> seemed to be denied, though.
<popey> nah, just clarified that we're thinking about it
<popey> not planning to switch right now
<solarcloud> anyway my laptop says it has a i686 processor .. so what iso do I need to install Ubuntu 12.10 ?
<daftykins> 32-bit x86, standard
<solarcloud> ok thanx .. 40 minute download .. where the adverts while this is going on ?
<solarcloud> Ghehe /
<solarcloud> now 15 minute .. doing well :)
<solarcloud> now 10 mins to go ..
<daftykins> ;)
<solarcloud> .. and we're done .. now to burn it .. I hear if you burn it backwards you hear Stallman having an argument with Linus about systemd     :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: estimated delivery date of 14th Feb
 * bigcalm does nothing but stare at the drive way for a 2 weeks
<ali1234> nexus 4?
 * Azelphur laughs at you all, waves his nexus 4 at everyone
<ali1234> what's so good about it?
<Azelphur> some of the highest specs on the market at low prices?
<ali1234> i mean compared with, say, any samsung galaxy running cyanogenmod?
<ali1234> why do you need high specs on a smartphone?
<Azelphur> galaxy has exynos which doesn't work well with AOSP, you loose features like HDMI out if you install cyanogenmod, and get a continual stream of bugs.
<Azelphur> gaming mainly
<ali1234> ah yes, the hilariously insecure chip
<ali1234> there's that i suppose
<ali1234> seems to work perfect for me though
<ali1234> it runs all games i tried
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> what's the most demanding android game?
<Azelphur> I dunno, Need for speed most wanted is pretty heavy
<ali1234> i would try GTA III but i can't be bothered to wait for it to download
<ali1234> runs nice on nexus 7 though
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> yea I do most of my gaming on the 7
<ali1234> i should get amiga emulator for it
<ali1234> that would be awesome
<bigcalm> ali1234: new workstation paid for by work
<Azelphur> ali1234: did you get a PS3 controller hooked up via bluetooth
<ali1234> no, i dont have a PS3 controller
<Azelphur> dx.com has some real cheap
<ali1234> i spent all my money on components to repair my A4000
<ali1234> i need to get nexus 7 docking station too
<zleap> a4000 (acorn)
<ali1234> no
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> amiga
<bigcalm> I hoped it was an Archimedes as well
<solarcloud> finally installed ubuntu and did update & upgrade on terminal .. it's just restarted so I guess it takes a whole 102 minutes to get to square one when installing Ubuntu ..
<AlanBell> popey: just watched that jupiter broadcasting segment, they covered it pretty well
<solarcloud> daftykins: Interesting video to do with channel islands http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fp8MFkZe74 I do subscribe to this.
<ali1234> DOpus 5 was GPL'd in december
<solarcloud> Anyone else get this :::: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directory_Opus [off-line]
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-05
<solarcloud> Ohwell, thanks for the heads-up on that one (not).. Also, Just went to post some cheques to the bank , and the post box is full .. What do I do now McGiver ??
<ali1234> http://chiptunes.emor3j.fr.eu.org/tunes/modarchive.org/T/thrashzone.mod <- not what you expect from a chiptune
<daubers> Morning
<popey> morning
<popey> AlanBell: yeah, i thought so.
<TheOpenSourcerer> meauning.
<czajkowski> aloha
<JamesTait> Good moaning! ;-)
 * directhex flings the candle with the handle at JamesTait 
<SuperMatt> well, fedora 19 is switching mysql to mariadb, which means it may make it to redhat, which means Oracle will have to strip it out when they clone it
<SuperMatt> that makes me chuckle heartedly
<mungbean_> dear irc, i have an eccentric uncle in his 50s who lives alone with a disposable income, hence buys things he needs. what can i buy him as a small birthday present?
<SuperMatt> a nice bottle of whisky
<mungbean_> i'm not sure he drinks
<mungbean_> but nice idea
 * JamesTait responds (eventually) by flinging the gateau from the chateau at directhex. ;)
<mungbean_> he likes gadgets and always has the latest smartphone
 * popey tries to pronounce directhex like chateau
<popey> mungbean_: I'd buy a real life thing
<popey> cooking school voucher, balloon ride, that kind of thing
<directhex> mungbean_, get a motorola startac.
<czajkowski> mungbean_: lots of choices here http://www.goodwood.co.uk/
<czajkowski> I bought my other half a flying lesson for our anniversary, to say he was chuffed is an understatement
<popey> mungbean_: how about something charitable if he already has everything
<mungbean_> he does love horse racing
<mungbean_> lots of good ideas here
<popey> or a subscription to a magazine
<popey> pay once, he gets benefit every month
<mungbean_> i may look at some gloves that let you use a smartphone whwen you ar wearing them
<czajkowski> popey: good idea
<AlanBell> anyone tried replacing mysql with mariadb on anything yet?
<SuperMatt> I have
<SuperMatt> it just slots in to place
<directhex> mungbean_, you don't need gloves for that, you need a pepperami.
<directhex> #truefacts
<directhex> ooh, get a crate of pepperami
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: how did you install it? from the mariadb repos?
<SuperMatt> yup
<mungbean_> he's also quite vegetarian (except christmas)
<directhex> http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/south-korean-iphone-users-turn-to-sausages-as-a-cold-weather-me/
<SuperMatt> I'm running it over at supermatt.net
<mungbean_> and probably undiagnosed aspergers
<mungbean_> can't even buy him CDs anymore since he got a spotify unlimited
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: does it conflict with mysql? then start serving up your mysql databases?
<SuperMatt> well, it's a replacement for mysql. I just removed mysql, put maria in, and everything continued working as it was before
<AlanBell> any particular benefit to doing it?
<SuperMatt> not *really*
<popey> mungbean_: not everyone is on spotify. find out someone he likes and isn't on spotify âº
<SuperMatt> unless you want more openess from your db server
<popey> mungbean_: remember you said your shower broke yesterday?
<popey> and I was proud of ours being 10 years old
<popey> it broke last night
<shauno> I keep praying mine will finally break for some extra motivation.  it still works, but the pump's gone.  so it's a light drizzle at best
<SuperMatt> AlanBell: I think eventually you may see more from mariadb because the devs are actively looking to progress it, where-as orcale aren't quite so bothered
<mungbean_> popey: :(
<mungbean_> electric or combi boiler?
<mungbean_> its just the metal lever on the tap for me, but doesn't seem replaceable
<popey> electric
<popey> just took the cover off, it's just the microswitch i think
<popey> bingo! http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/121058632991?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&cbt=y
 * popey knows there's a place in farnham that does spares like this...
<AlanBell> GA Days
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Lunns on the Lynchford Rd?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or Rexel Senate for electrical stuff.
<popey> ahh, lunns..
<popey> should try them first
<popey> bah, grumpy git on the phone
<AlanBell> is that what they said to you?
<popey> I was a model of friendlyness
<popey> he on the other hand..
<popey> anyway, they can't get them
<popey> bah, SDA don't do showers
<popey> it's only a switch â¹
<popey> ebay it is
<mungbean_> http://aws.amazon.com/glacier/ pricing looks attractive for this
<solarcloud> Does anyone know the username of Michael Hall from canonical on IRC ??
<popey> mhall119
<popey> he lurks in #ubuntu-community-team
<solarcloud> ok thanx
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know a friendly Mozillian working out of the London office? ( chrisccoulson? ) Am after someone to "sponsor" us so I can book the Mozspace in March.
<czajkowski> he's canonical not mozilla :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes I know czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> But he works on TB & Firefox ;-)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: he may know someone, bkerensa is a mozilla community guy, may know names in london
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty popey
<popey> i know GLLUG tried to book it too
<popey> but it's very heavily booked up
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just had a chat with them on the mozila irc server. Said they had problems with it being "used by anyone".
<TheOpenSourcerer> "... It ended up being used as free office space. So the office is temporally closed until we get some guidelines in. If someone from Mozilla is happy to keep an eye out for you and book the room for you then it wont be a problem"
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: google campus is also very useful
<czajkowski> I'm running hackntalk there
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Good idea.
<AlanBell> czajkowski: oh, how is that going?
<czajkowski> 31/70
<czajkowski> so not bad
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> am well happy with that
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000MLL6RS/ hmmm
<Myrtti> to buy or not
<popey> thats a good price!
<czajkowski> indeed it is
<czajkowski> already have his valentines pressie though :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Myrtti: We bought the kids one of those a couple of years ago for Christmas.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not that impressed tbh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Incredibly hard to actually see anything interesting with it.
<Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah I read the reviews too
<popey> that specific model TheOpenSourcerer ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno hang on.
<Myrtti> one of them says you can hardly see Jupiter with it
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was a 114EQ
<Myrtti> which doesn't really surprise me
<TheOpenSourcerer> This one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000MLL6R8/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
<directhex> astronomy in cities sucks. too much light polution
<TheOpenSourcerer> Luckily I don't live in a city
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: is yours packed away, never used?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is in the Dining room - set up but hasn't been outside for ~18months
<solarcloud> Stellarium ??
<AlanBell> http://mo-www.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/OWN/Own.pl
<AlanBell> use someone elses robot telescope \o/
<popey> the kids were fascinated by the fact they could see Jupiter recently
<popey> http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/t-series/t430/
<popey> broken for everyone?
<popey> Internal Server Error - Read
<popey> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
<popey> Reference #3.707008d1.1360062077.181c6683
<mgdm> works form e
<directhex> works
<solarcloud> it's fine
<popey> still broken here
<solarcloud> $779.00 pricey thou.
<popey> odd, works in chrome, doesn't work in chromium
<popey> hmm, reckon it's an extension issue, works in incognito chromium
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: still a long time to wait for a dell
<solarcloud> Just for an "elevensies" strawpoll .... Who here smokes ??
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<solarcloud> v. good popey,      .... v.good.
<mungbean_> :-|
<TheOpenSourcerer> solarcloud: I do when I'm either drinking beer or playing golf.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But cigars only.
<mungbean_> for this intj it's the oddest habit i see people doing
<solarcloud> seems legit :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> w00t! sandwich van est arrive
<solarcloud> Round here he's known as Bap Man. BYMMV
<popey> mungbean_: intj?
<directhex> i only smoke occasionally. as in after people set me on fire.
<popey> wakka wakka wakka
<popey> he's here all week!
<mungbean_> popey: INTJ personality type
<mungbean_> as per many in this room i suspect
<mungbean_> although its more rare IRL
<popey> oh i see
<popey> haggis for lunch
<bigcalm> davmor2: I've had an updated email with "The Estimated Delivery Date for this order is on or before 2013-02-14."
<bigcalm> popey: did you hunt and kill it yourself?
<popey> i opened the package, yes
<mungbean_> ARRRGH tomboy just deleted all my local notes
<bashrc> is that a feature?
<mungbean_> a new one, it seems
<popey> hmmm
<popey> you are the third person to say that to me today
<Laney> raring?
<popey> aquarius: ^^
<mungbean_> 12.04
<mungbean_> just synced, and it said "deleted local note"
<skybinary> installing ltmodem/linmodem for lucid, is it possible?
<mungbean_> 206 notes GONE
<popey>  see .local/share/tomboy/Backup
<mungbean_> thanks, phew
<mungbean_> time to migrate from u1 :(
 * popey asks in #ubuntuone
<mungbean_> unless tomboy fix u1 api support for desktop and android before end of month :(
<popey> I will probably switch to text files in a folder
<mungbean_> not ideal as i use it on windows too
<mungbean_> and on android
<mungbean_> :'(
<popey> text files is ideal then
<Laney> it's sad :( so sad :( it's a sad sad situation :(
<popey> sync via U1 or Dropbox
<mungbean_> i thought you told me this was Not Safe TM
<mungbean_> last year you mentioned you tried it and it was bad
<popey> i am not saying sync tomboy via that method
<popey> woah there
<mungbean_> oh :(
<Laney> i'll probably be setting up a rainy server
<mungbean_> does it work the same?
<mungbean_> snowy protocol?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> i suspect there is cause for a tomboy bug report asking to confirm if the server is trying to make all of your notes go away
 * mungbean_ wonders if owncloud has this support 
<mungbean_> http://gitorious.org/haddock
<davmor2> popey: have you considered syncing the tomboy notes to a folder and then sharing the folder
<popey> thats not recommended davmor2
<popey> also doesn't work for syncing with tomdroid
<davmor2> popey: also yesterday there was an issue reported yesterday and the u1 team were looking into it
<popey> got a bug report or link to the discussion?
<mungbean_> ubuntu one facebook page mentions it too
<DJones>  Wierd, Win XP running in virtualbox runs faster than Win XP running as an installed o/s
<Laney> just caught sight of myself sitting here in a slanket
<Laney> look like an idiot
<mungbean> http://pristinesource.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/haddock-tomboy-notes-sync-for-owncloud.html
<mungbean> maybe if its too much effort, canonical can open the source for their tomboy sync service and we can run it ourselves, or is it just snowy anyway?
<popey> Laney: I think we should be the judge of that. Photos pls.
<popey> i think it's based on snowy
<Laney> popey: I'm not ashamed
<Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/63y67SI7mTcrSkKTBiV8uQ
<Laney> \o/
<mungbean> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/snowy-list/2012-December/msg00001.html explains a bit more about the situation
<popey> you look _awesome_
<Laney> it's super warm!
<popey> I was going to get one for wifey
<Laney> you can get double ones
<mgdm> My brother's flatmate once got given one by her mum. She was decidedly unimpressed at the time, though that evening they went out and got extremely drunk, resulting in a massive hangover the next morning, at which point she realised it was a great idea
<czajkowski> Laney: nice
<czajkowski> jon got one for my sister which also plugs in so it's an electric slanket blanket :)
<Laney> :O
<Laney> although this is part of my heating resistence strategy so i'd have to opt out of that :P
<czajkowski> Laney: thought you were in london this week ?
<Laney> no 18th
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> am heading in on Friday
<popey> i dont need a double one because I don't feel the cold like wifey does
<czajkowski> though given the day I'm having I may end up there sooner
 * Laney throws things at the radio
<Laney> anyone listening to you and yours?
<popey> i am now
<czajkowski> https://launchpad.net/fosdem-ubuntu  oh brilliant
<czajkowski> have to say the fosdem android app was so simple and easy to good
<czajkowski> al conferences should use it!
<mungbean> just realised this year is my 15 years anniversary of using linux :-|
<mungbean> so google tells me
<Laney> how does google know that :O
<mungbean> Laney: when deploying my first server in the enterprise i posted to the linux-net mailing list
<mungbean> we have a running joke here that anyone who says they have been doing something for 15 years is generally a duffer that hasn't updated his knowledge since the 90s
<mungbean> source: tivoli guy
 * popey ponders when he first used linux
<mungbean> i can't even remember whether i used gnome or kde
<mungbean> i went to the shop and bought redhat for ~Â£30
<ali1234> you probably didn't use either
<ali1234> it ws probably fvwm
<mungbean> redhat 5.1 manhattan
<mungbean> it had the kde style menu
<TheOpenSourcerer> My LFS id is 216. Probably means ~1998/9 I guess
<mungbean> i didn't know what i was doing but i installed apache web proxy module (or maybe squid if it existed then)
<ali1234> yeah. fvwm
<mungbean> and ran it on a desktop pc without a lid for the whole company
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZpEX4dWItQo#t=51s
<ali1234> http://systhread.net/texts/2009xvishist-img/fvwm95shot1.jpg
<ali1234> does anyone know how synergy grabs all the input?
<mungbean> pretty sure i installed every DE
<ali1234> gnome wasnt released unti 1999 according wikipedia
<mungbean> kde?
<mungbean> i think kde was an option at the time
<mungbean> not sure if default or not
<ali1234> KDE older than gnome
<ali1234> but fvwm was default in redhat 5.1
<davmor2> ali1234: yeap, kde was first but QT was proprietary so RMS said that is no use and then some people created gtk to create the gnome desktop and the flame wars have continued from there
<ali1234> yeah, not really though
<ali1234> they've always been very different desktops
<ali1234> the licensing stuff was not the reason people chose one or the other, in the main
<ali1234> it was the reason why gnome was created though
<davmor2> ali1234: it was initially
<mungbean> was the reason gnome started though innit?
<mungbean> they were worried what would happen if trolltech went away
<ali1234> Qt went open source before gnome was really even usable
<ali1234> gnome first release 1999, Qt went GPL in 2000
<mungbean> i used to love kde
<ali1234> (gnome 1.0 was not very good)
<mungbean> my needs have changed now though
<popey> I think 1994 was when I first tried Linux
<mungbean> popey will be happy that i've finally settled on a DE
<popey> when some fat beardy electronics student at college sold me about slackware
<mungbean> after DE hopping for over a year
<ali1234> if i can find the PC shopper cover CD with slackware on it, i could tell you exactly to the day when i first tried linux
<popey> heh, I did think "nothing changes" when you said < mungbean> pretty sure i installed every DE
<mungbean> :D
<ali1234> well maybe not to the day since i don't know what day i bought it
<popey> i found receipts in some of my old speccy magazines recently
<popey> and speccy games
<mungbean> i have a massive stash of linux magazine for about 5 years 2006-2011
<mungbean> will probably end up in the recycling dump
<ali1234> i had every amiga format from 1991 to like 2000
<mungbean> don't have a local lug
<ali1234> had to dump them
<popey> i wish I hadn't ripped up my first copy of Ace
<ali1234> probably could have sold them to a sucker on ebay
<davmor2> Suse Linux 6.3 was my first dabble then corel linux and fedora core
<mungbean> no longer like printed words
<mungbean> did anyone make use of the zinio $50 of magazines offer
<mungbean> also public libraries have free use of zinio magazines too, however my local one was mostly justin bieber mag and other dodgy ones
<mungbean> just realised halifax home insurnace ripping me off to the tune of Â£500. comparethe market has a halifax similar one for Â£200pa
<mungbean> scumbags
<ali1234> ah here we go http://www.linuxmisc.com/4-linux/38e75905b498eddc.htm
<ali1234> bet that was it
<ali1234> first reply is moaning about GPL "nothing ever changes"
 * TheOpenSourcerer sold several years of Linux Format on eBay - got a decent price IIRC.
<popey> I should get rid of the boxes of copies of edge in the loft
<ali1234> oh, that was from september 1994: http://www.oldlinux.org/Linux.old/mail-archive/linux-misc/Volume2/digest747, not march 1997 like the forum thing says
<mungbean> TheOpenSourcerer: collection?
<mungbean> collected by seller?
<mungbean> ^buyer
<TheOpenSourcerer> No - he paid oodles for postage too. It was a few years ago.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I used to have a contract with ParcelForce - so 48hr signed for, for anything up to about 50Kg was Â£8
<TheOpenSourcerer> My large stack of Custom PC and Golf Magazines are now acting as adjustable shelving for my Chilli plants: https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111719964815344213369
<directhex> heh, someone actually bought custom pc
<dogmatic69_> Dont think money supermarket will be happy about this https://www.google.co.uk/compare/creditcard/qs#!profile=LEADING_CARDS
<BigRedS> Oh wow
<BigRedS> they get everywhere that google
<dogmatic69_> ye
<dogmatic69_> I was just searching for 'business creditcards' and that came up
<dogmatic69_> well business ones, that is the normal ones.
<popey> oooh
<Laney> SNOW?!?!?!?!?!?!?
<TheOpenSourcerer> What a lunch... Bombay Bad Boy Pot Noodle followed by a handful of Smarties :-D
<ali1234> yes, snow
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha ha: http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/02/world-trembles-in-confusion-andor-fear-at-irans-fiberglass-airplane/
<ali1234> hmm is it just me or is that thing much too small?
<mgdm> it's not just you
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's hysterical - look at the pictures of the cockpit!
<ali1234> it looks like if you put 10p in it it would gentle tip back and forth for a couple of minutes
<directhex> see also http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/funny-gifs-north-korean-rocket-launch.gif
<ali1234> LOL
<TheOpenSourcerer> great.
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: worse than the cockpit console is the distortion in the glass. The images where you can see through it make it look like some hot-formed acrylic or something
<ali1234> otoh if it's made out of fibreglass and wood it probably is quite stealthy
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
<TheOpenSourcerer> especially as it will be very low. 0' above sea level I reckon
<directhex> you'd never expect it
<directhex> you know what else nobody expects?
<TheOpenSourcerer> All together now...
<popey> where is the air intake on that thing?
<BigRedS> above the wings, either side of the cockpit
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's the two little red bits
<popey> ah
<AlanBell> I think it would be quite exciting to fly
<BigRedS> hence speculation that if it does indeed work it's a strike aircraft rather than a fighter
<popey> looks funky
<directhex> funny thing. the spanish inquisition were required to send notice of an impending visit 30 days in advance
<TheOpenSourcerer> I bet it would be very exciting if it flew!
<popey> looks like a scout thing
<directhex> i.e. everyone expects the spanish inquisition
<AlanBell> lots of english language on it, looks like they bought an airfix model and scaled it up slightly
<ali1234> i want to know why all the "danger" labels and "engine jetpipe cover" labels are in english
<AlanBell> snap :)
<directhex> ali1234, ebayed labels
<BigRedS> Aviation basically works in English
<ali1234> do they actually have engine jetpipe covers like that on real aircraft?
<BigRedS> I'm still surprised the Iranians used English, but the Chinese do, for example
<directhex> btw, it's not a jet. that's why it doesn't have things a jet needs, like adequate air intakes
<directhex> it's levitation-based
<directhex> alien tech
<ali1234> i bet if you towed it behind a real plane you could get it to glide for a bit. at low altitude. before the wings snapped off.
<ali1234> the tiny tiny wings
<BigRedS> the wings aren't that crazy
<amayer_> *going crazy* when is the next ubuntu-uk podcast?
<AlanBell> BigRedS: without any calculations I would say that with those wings the landing speed is going to be pretty high, and those tyres and wheels might struggle to stop the thing in a reasonable distance
<popey> hah
<popey> amayer_: we're discussing it over curry on Sunday
<amayer_> SWEET!
<davmor2> amayer_: I don't know of many sweet curries, hot, spicy, mild yes but not sweet ;)
<BigRedS> AlanBell: really? There's good potential for a lifting body there and the forward stubs. And it's going to weigh basically nothing
<DJones> Hmmh, I guess Dell won't be producing any linux based machines in future, Michael Dell buying the company back financed in part by a $2 billion loan from Microsoft
<AlanBell> it will take off without much problem if the forward stubs can point the nose up, I just think landing it might be a struggle
<AlanBell> BigRedS: I used to do some modeling stuff so once upon a time I could do some of the maths on lift of scale models
<popey> http://theniftyminidrive.com/
<popey> they look cute
<popey> wonder if someone else has made a non-mac-fanboy version
<AlanBell> what is it?
<AlanBell> heh, it is a short SD card because apple designed the SD card slot on the macbook air to be not deep enough
<AlanBell> to be fair the slot on my samsung is too short too
<popey> hmm.. just realised the one on my thinkpad is the "right size"
<popey> wonder what the max capacity is it will read
<MartijnVdS> the one on my Vaio fits an entire card as well
<MartijnVdS> and the kernel can talk to it using a "native" protocol of some kind, so I guess it can take any size card the kernel likes, as long as the voltages are compatible
<popey> 64GB seems to be the max capacity you can buy now?
<MartijnVdS> I think someone made a 128GB one
<MartijnVdS> but it might not be for sale yet
 * MartijnVdS wonders if the Sony "Memory Stick" slot works in Linux
<MartijnVdS> \o/ train-ircing
<popey> choo choo
<MartijnVdS> tunnels = lag :)
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007PYBQKC/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&psc=1&s=computers
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0084DWD6E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360079989&s=computers&sr=1-1
<MartijnVdS> @Leiden.. \o
<Third> I am trying to get some info on how to correct an issue of NO AUDIO on my Gateway 3522gz that i loaded ubunu on
<Third> i have tried several commads that I found on other forum but no luck
<dwatkins> what's the PCI ID of the audio card, Third?
<Third> let me check and I will log back in....ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - Java (eclipse): ~600MB, Firefox: ~500MB, Thunderbird: ~300MB, Hotot: ~250MB!
<TheOpenSourcerer> And who was it that said 64K would be plenty ;-)
<shauno> I suppose the kernel doesn't claim the minimum requirements are 4MB ram anymore either
<mungbean> ARM profit up 20% this year
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - just as Dell signs a deal with Microsoft  - lol.
<mungbean> i almost sold my arm shares @ 770p last month
<mungbean> today they are 930p
<TheOpenSourcerer> I would suggest ARM is a long term hold. Although this is not to be construde in anyway like financial advice
<mungbean> i've held them since 1999
<TheOpenSourcerer> sell 2 shares and get back your original investment then ;-)
<mungbean> unfortunately they were around the same price back then due to tech bubble
<TheOpenSourcerer> ah
<mungbean> i wanted to buy when acorn was 6p
<mungbean> but didn't have the means (sharedealing facility)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't done anything for ages. Used to have an account with Ameritrade in the US for NASDAQ but they closed that to foreigners.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Should really start investing a bit here and there again.
<mungbean> i lost loads on some shares
<mungbean> got burned
<TheOpenSourcerer> Me too!
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's easy.
<mungbean> share group (petrol - into administration, lost it all) , kewill systems (99% loss !)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I turned $4k into $15k then into $400
<mungbean> hornby suffered this year due to olympics
<TheOpenSourcerer> In about 4 years
<mungbean> i turned 1k into 2k then zero in a day
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<mungbean> (save group)
<mungbean> hornby are a good buy still
 * AlanBell has one share
<TheOpenSourcerer> And I know what that is
<AlanBell> an exciting and dynamic startup that is going places :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
<BigRedS> AlanBell: I attempted a BEng in Aero Eng, so once upon a time I could get the maths wrong :)
<AlanBell> cool
<brobostigon> how do i block a certain person from pm'ing me, a /ignore didnt work.
<brobostigon> this is in irssi.
<popey> you could real-world ignore them?
<ali1234> harsh
<brobostigon> popey: no this person will not listen to reason,
<ali1234> reasoning != ignoring
<popey> no, i mean, ignore them
<popey> i.e. do not respond to anything they say
<ali1234> if it's an unregistered spam bot, just set more +R
<ali1234> blocks unregistered users from PMing you
<ali1234> otoh, if t's a registered spammer... just get them banninated
<brobostigon> popey: that is what i am doing now, but it is still annoying,
<popey> they get the message eventually usually
<popey> if you don't make the mistake of replying
<ali1234> i dunno how you even get stalkers on the internet
<brobostigon> popey: you would hope so, yes.
<BigRedS> Anyone got any recommendations for someone to terminate some fibre in London?
<xnox> i hope people are watching bbc parliament live today.
<BigRedS> I'm not
<BigRedS> I'm not really sure what I'd gain from watching it
<popey> I am
<popey> it's cemented my decision to never vote for my MP
<popey> (not that I ever did)
<diplo> BigRedS: When do you need it done?
<diplo> I used to use a guy who travelled anywhere, not used him in a couple of years though
<BigRedS> diplo: er, next few weeks I think. I'm asking on behalf of someone else
<AlanBell> xnox: yes
<diplo> I'll see if I have his number here, if not I can get for you tomorrow
<BigRedS> diplo: ah, that'd be cool, thanks!
<xnox> BigRedS: you do which bill is debated today right?!
<xnox> BigRedS: you do know which bill is debated today right?!
<diplo> Not in my gmail contacts, will ask for you tomorrow :)
<shauno> appears I don't get BBC Parliament.  I have a bunch of paddies asking questions about lovely juicy horse burgers on Oireachtas TV instead :(
<AlanBell> xnox: I have been dipping in and out of it, we have a real mixed bag of MPs
<xnox> AlanBell: I joined late, will watch it again from the beginning.
<BigRedS> xnox: yeah
<BigRedS> what do I gain from watching the debate?
<BigRedS> diplo: ta!
<xnox> BigRedS: for me, whether i'm gonna stay in this country or not.
 * MartijnVdS remembers it being a big deal in .nl years ago... now nobody cares
<MartijnVdS> (because it's so normal)
<MartijnVdS> (except in rural hyper-christian areas)
<BigRedS> xnox: surely that's dependent on the outcome more than the process?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: by watching BBC Parliament, he can get a head start packing his bags
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: (or not)
<AlanBell> the thing is with these debates is I don't think any of them change their mind ever
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> not just this debate, but any of them
<shauno> The one I'm keeping my eye on is all this noise about leaving the EU.  I've already left the country, but if they mess that up, I lose my ability to live in many places
<AlanBell> they decide which way they are voting, then stand up and tell each other how they are voting then do what they would have done anyway
<xnox> it also has funny comments & some value of entertainment ;-)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's the same here.. they've all made up their minds beforehand.. they're just there to make sure everyone knows how they feel
<BigRedS> xnox: Ah yeah, I get that from an entertainment perspective. Like watching the football.
<BigRedS> but it's a process that can only realistically make me angry :)
<BigRedS> so I'll avoid it
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: BigGreenSHulk
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> I would like it if every so often you heard them say "good point", or "actually, you are right"
<xnox> BigRedS: yeah, i'm indifferent about football
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O90nfczjNHA <-- this might help with that ;)
<BigRedS> I'd like it if they had a debate, then went away to think about it for a bit, and then came back and made a decision
<BigRedS> doing it this way can only possibly get everyone riled up and hold whatever opinion they came in with even stronger before asking them to vote
<BigRedS> it's more a way for us the people to get a detailled explanation of their view than it is a debate
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it makes for more "one-issue voters" in the country, which helps to keep everything the way it is
<BigRedS> yeah
<czajkowski> shauno: why would it affect places you can live?
<shauno> because many countries I only have a right to live & work because I'm an EU citizen
<czajkowski> ah I always thought you were irish given the nick tbh
<shauno> I do have an irish name.  and live here, which was a fun coincidence.  but a UK passport and no direct herritage
<czajkowski> oh
<xnox> nobody seems to think about asking the opinion of eu citizens in the uk & uk citizens in eu (but outside of uk)
<shauno> I think it's 4 or 5 generations removed.  not close enough to apply for an irish passport
<shauno> but I would if I could.  I consider myself a european first and british second.  and it's mind-boggling to even consider that someone else could change that for me
<BigRedS> xnox: surely UK citizens abroad would be included in any referendum?
<xnox> shauno: how many years have you been in ireland?
<xnox> BigRedS: sure, but legislations should aim to protect minorities.
<BigRedS> that would be nice in general, but I'm not sure it's a necessary property
<BigRedS> sometimes legislation is specifically made against a minority
<BigRedS> you'd hope that rather than against the majority
<shauno> seven.  but I lived in the US before that.  I haven't lived in the UK since 2002
<xnox> shauno: seven > 5, get irish permament residence under EU rights. If uk's eu policy changes you will have an option to get irish passport to maintain eu right and uk (as i daubt irish ->uk relationship will change much)
<MartijnVdS> xnox: UK will just take over Ireland again :P
<BigRedS> I think we've roughly the same claim to Ireland as Argentina has to the Falklands
<BigRedS> "It's close to us"
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and there's the whole painful history bit
<nucc1> hi guys, is /etc/resolv.conf supposed to be a symlink to /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf ?
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: if resolvconv is running, yes
<MartijnVdS> running/being used
<nucc1> MartijnVdS, the problem i'm facing is that resolvconf doesn't get updated when i log into an ssl vpn
<nucc1> firefox says Warning, resolv.conf isn't a symlink...
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: hmm.. with my OpenVPN it works fine
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: do you connect from the "Connection" menu in the GUI?
<nucc1> MartijnVdS, i use the browser. its not possible to use NM, afaik
<nucc1> i don't think its openvpn or ipsec.
<MartijnVdS> so.. you run the browser as root?
<nucc1> no, browser as my normal user.
<MartijnVdS> how else are you routing traffic through it/
<nucc1> i think it creates a ppp0 interface.
<MartijnVdS> from the browser?
<MartijnVdS> Weird!
<nucc1> no, a browser plugin
<nucc1> yeap, it creates a ppp0 interface and configures it appropriately
<nucc1> it appears to be PPTP
<nucc1> but i suppose i'd need the necessary parameters to be able to use NM.
<MartijnVdS> and you're sure it doesn't run as root? because users shuoldn't be able to do that..
<nucc1> that's the rub. i've been able to do this until january 16 of this year.
<nucc1> i'm not sure if a firefox update broke it
<nucc1> but i reverted to v16.x and the firefox plugin wouldn't work, so i reinstalled 18.x
<nucc1> the plugin did require root privileges to install, so i guess that takes care of it
<nucc1> its probably a plugin issue with firefox 18.
<nucc1> :(
<MartijnVdS> those MPs do get their exercise don't they
 * Myrtti backed the compression socks â¥ 
<Azelphur> sigh, waited 3 months for openreach to turn up, they was supposed to come today, got nothing :(
<daftykins> Azelphur: =/ gits
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> got my new place today :) keys in hand \o/
<daftykins> so commenceth the sorting it out
<daftykins> even went mattress and sofa shopping 8D
 * AlanBell has fire
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> y'gonna call BT to complain?
<daftykins> Azelphur: ^
<Azelphur> I called talktalk, I didn't think BT would be any use
<daftykins> oic the service itself isn't from them, my bad
<Azelphur> yea
<daftykins> had a clients VDSL install monday, went nicely :>
<daftykins> the dude had a cancellation so he even called up to try and come early
<Azelphur> talktalk said openreach was scheduled to come out today and they don't have any information yet :(
<daftykins> so i had to delay him :D
<Azelphur> lol
<daftykins> =[ that sucks
<daftykins> funny part with this one mind, is that the routers apparently come from a third party company
<daftykins> possibly in England even
<Azelphur> fun
<daftykins> so said client has his 40/2 service sat there waiting - but no router
<daftykins> pain++
<daftykins> good fun chatting to the engineer though, i got him to fiddle around to get the sync stats nice and top
<Azelphur> :D
<directhex> 40/2? a pauper's connection!
<directhex> for poor peasants!
<directhex> i wouldn't sully my bottom by wiping it with 2mbit of upstream
<ali1234> i wish i had 2mbit of upstream
<ali1234> that's what i'm paying for damnit
<ali1234> i actually get about 400k
<directhex> i get about 15 up
<directhex> aha, wondered why i was only getting 17 down... am on 11g not gigabit ^_^
<directhex> 75 down, that's better
<directhex> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2488668640.png
<daftykins> directhex: pretty impressive for an island, plus an island that only released ADSL in 2004
<daftykins> plus 40/2 is just the first domestic VDSL service, so it'll ramp up fo shiz
<directhex> ... mine's on an island
<popey> \o/ island life
<daftykins> sigh
<daftykins> ooh reminds me, a mate shared a great link
<daftykins> http://submarine-cable-map-2013.telegeography.com/
<daftykins> undersea fibre links map!
<mgdm> daftykins: which island?
<daftykins> Guernsey
<mgdm> ah
<daftykins> aka "no you can't buy a Nexus device land" - Google
<popey> daftykins: have you tried ordering one? what happens?
 * popey has one in his basket and could type in a Guernsey address to test
<daftykins> popey: well, the site blocks me from even viewing based on geoIP. i...
<daftykins> ah ty :) may i PM test details?
<popey> sure
<bigcalm> daftykins: proxy!
<daftykins> bigcalm: yeah, none i trust even behind SSL to log into my gmail though
<daftykins> i suppose i could fiddle with TOR and set a UK endpoint
<daftykins> but. meh
<bigcalm> daftykins: friends of mine in Canada and Hong Kong used me as a proxy. I know the HK friend used me for ordering a Nexus
<shauno> why's tor any more trustworthy?  you still have to pray the exitnode isn't nosey
<daftykins> shauno: absolutely, i know this, but i mean versus some of the web 'forwarders' that you can find for free via google. which i used recently just to 'see' the page. though granted those likely don't handle SSL
<bigcalm> daftykins: find a friend willing to let you use them as a proxy
<daftykins> i was only really going to splurge on one on a whim tbh, it's more the principle of the matter i was challenging Google Support on
<daftykins> but i think they're all thinking with a combination of US'ers who don't understand the Channel Islands relationship with England, plus that of only giving me scripted responses
<shauno> good luck with that.  support isn't their strong point
<daftykins> indeed ;)
<shauno> had a broken cert that made a lot of their sites unusable here a few months back.  they kept blaming my end until we managed to show that it even affected their dublin office's public wifi
<popey> they do 32GB ones now
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> i am disappointed at the lack of microSD in the N4
<popey> i am generally disappointed by the nexus 4
<daftykins> ja?
<popey> unimpressive
<popey> a bit meh
<daftykins> i think it's not too far off my HTC Desire to justify the expense if i'm honest with myself
<daftykins> just far too tempted for that retail 'something new and shiny' therapy ;)
<bigcalm> Quite glad that the SGS3 has be sated on that front
<daftykins> am i right in thinking the popularity of them in here of late is as a future base for running ubuntu's phone OS on - or is it coincidence?
<daftykins> bigcalm: what's it been?
<bigcalm> daftykins: what's what been?
<daftykins> your sentence didn'y make sense to me
<daftykins> s/y/t/
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> I'm a sucker for buying new things as well. I have 2 Viglen MPC-L and an Acer Revo because of it (thanks Popey!)
<daftykins> :D
<bigcalm> But since I've owned the Samsung Galaxy SIII, I haven't had the urge to splurge
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> they're nice phones those, i just know that if i had one right now, i wouldn't really be doing anything with it i can't do now on my older HTC Desire
<daftykins> plus as i get asked to setup smartphones for people, i get the benefit of having the unboxing fun without the downside of paying :D
<daftykins> but yes, instead of gadgets it's now time for fun things like - plumbing, electric work, a mattress and sofa to be bought :)
<popey> Having had an iPhone 4S and now a Nexus 4. I am tempted to put the SIM back in the iPhone
<daftykins> a friend of mine who was always on the iPhones seems to love web browsing performance on the N4 vs. his 4S
<daftykins> not sure if that's with the simple webkit or chrome vs. safari mobile, mind you
<popey> theres still too many things about android which irritate me
<daftykins> any examples? i'm curious from a useability perspective
<popey> the back button doesn't do what you expect it to
<popey> the soft buttons have stopped working for me twice now
<popey> I have had apps lock up so I have to hold the power down to shut it down
<popey> the screen is too big
<popey> the power button is in a dumb place
<popey> the usb port is upside down
<daftykins> soft buttons was definitely a risky move
<daftykins> i have ICS on my HP Touchpad and i don't really like the implementation at all, versus my old HTC running a gingerbread Cyanogenmod - but which has hardware buttons
<popey> iplayer frequently breaks or just stops working, video quality in it is _awful_
<third> hello'
<daftykins> hi
<third> i am looking for some help with an ubuntu audio problem on my gateway 3522gz
<daftykins> ask away
<third> i hS 10.10 I BELEIVE AND UPGRADED and now no audio
<popey> 10.10 is a bit dated
<third> i  had
<daftykins> so you went 10.10 -> how far?
<third> ithink its 12.04.1 lts
<daftykins> 'cat /etc/lsb-release' in a terminal can confirm
<third> gateway@gateway-3522GZ:~$ cat /etc/lsb-release DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu DISTRIB_RELEASE=12.04 DISTRIB_CODENAME=precise DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS"
<daftykins> that's a fairly old laptop, yeah?
<third> yes it is
<daftykins> looks like intel ICH4 audio
<third> but was running so good on  the 10.10
<daftykins> oh, integrated ADI 1981B audio according to a gateway site
<third> i guess i should have left it alone huh?
<daftykins> bug 1051494
<lubotu3> bug 1051494 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "[, Analog Devices ID 1981, Green Speaker, Internal] No sound at all" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051494
<bigcalm> third: it's nice to keep up to date when you can. But as hardware ages, the software won't always be able to support it. This is how we make progress :)
<bigcalm> At 5 years, Ubuntu has a fairly impressive support plan
<daftykins> third: are you comfy at the command line to grep dmesg for 'alsa-restore' ?
<third> uh i am not , but willing to try
<daftykins> "dmesg | grep -i alsa-restore" in a terminal might do it
<daftykins> if you get "init: alsa-restore main process (918) terminated with status 19" you have the problem in that bug, most likely
<third> it took the command but still no audio
<daftykins> did it spit out a line?
<third> no
<daftykins> ah ok, best someone with more experience takes over
<daftykins> i found that bug but i can't really confirm it's what's affecting you
<third> oh thats to bad
<daftykins> hang on a sec, think i know someone who knows this one
<daftykins> ah, nuts he's not online
<third> hmmm ok
<daftykins> in my google of "ubuntu 12.04" and the code of that analog devices (ADI) sound chip, this other page came up:
<daftykins> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+question/208703
<daftykins> 'actionparsnip' who is on there is sometimes in #ubuntu
<daftykins> admittedly that guy has a thinkpad, not a gateway, but he seems to get him going
<third> i seen that in my searching , but didnt understand it
<daftykins> yeah it might be unrelated sadly =/
<daftykins> i'm really no experienced ubuntu user though
<daftykins> so someone else might be able to give you a hand
<ali1234> popey: i'll have that nexus 4 if you don't want it
<third> so does anyone else hav any ideas about no audio on gareway 3522gz with ubuntu 12.04.1
<ali1234> make sure it's not muted, check *all* the mixers with alsamixer, not the panel applet
<ali1234> check independent HP
<ali1234> and then file a bug
<third> in alsamixer how can u tell if anything is muted
<ali1234> if it says 00 or MM it's muted
<ali1234> notice that it also scrolls to the right
<ali1234> use arrow keys
<third> ok i see several mm
<ali1234> you may need to unmute several things and also toggle some switches
<ali1234> start some music playing on a loop and fiddle
<ali1234> unmute everything, toggle all switches
<ali1234> M unmutes
<ali1234> m key that is
<ali1234> also try plugging in headphones if you have them
<ali1234> sometimes it gets stuck on only outputting to headphones
<ali1234> do you have two sliders, one for master and one for headphone?
<third> i do and pushed them all th way up
<third> tried to play a file
<third> no audio
<third> do i have to save th chnges some how
<third> hello
<third> do i need to close and reboot
<third> :o(
<popey> ali1234: I'll wait till we have a n4 image for ubuntu phone âº
<ali1234> i've never used anything but cyanogenmod but i wouldn't be surprised if it was more reliable than whatever they sell the things with
<ali1234> actually that's not true, my nexus 7 has vanilla on it
<ali1234> it does crash a fair bit though
<ali1234> usually from youtube app
<ali1234> i think the hardware video decoding is buggy
<third> hello anyone else have any ideas on no audio with ubuntu 12.04.1 on a gateway 3522gz
<popey> third:  if you get no luck here, try #ubuntu which is the official support channel
<dogmatic69> anyone have issues with flash on 12.04 x64 in the last couple updates?
<dogmatic69> suddenly chrome does not show videos etc with 'plugin not loaded' or similar error
<ali1234> i've heard of that problem
<ali1234> don't know a fix
<dogmatic69> I tried a few things. but all the help just says 'chrome comes with flash, dont need to do anything'
<dogmatic69> ali1234: got it working again
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-06
<third> i tried #ubuntu but no one would help. hello anyone else have any ideas on no audio with ubuntu 12.04.1 on a gateway 3522gz
<third> hello
<solarcloud> One of those; Can't sleep. Won't sleep: thingy-ma-bobs.
<solarcloud> Funny thing just happened, my desktop just froze up after hibernating and wouldn't restart. Ahhh Ubuntu you're a fiesty minx tonite.
<solarcloud> Just bought probably the cheapest 17 inch laptop I'll ever get these days .. Anyone see any problems with it ??
<solarcloud> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160968205895
<tix> lawl hi england
<tix> i heard you guys don't like guns
<AlanBell> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning eveeyone.
<dwatkins> hiya folks
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> bah!
<czajkowski> good day to you too mr popey
<popey> stupid tweetdeck no longer works in chromium
<popey> only supports chrome
<mungbean> oh :-|
<mungbean> wonder why that is
<czajkowski> popey: oh am running it today
<czajkowski> what version
<czajkowski> so I don't upgrade
<czajkowski> Version 24.0.1312.56 Ubuntu 12.10 (24.0.1312.56-0ubuntu0.12.10.3)
<popey> thats what I'm running
<czajkowski> hmm odd
<czajkowski> have tweetdeck open and running and it's updating with tweets
<Laney> dear pandaboard. you suck: http://home.orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/
<czajkowski> Dear laney, leave sad pandaboard alove ,no love panda
<DJones> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<popey> Laney: what's up with that?
<popey> oh, big gap
<Laney> it just crashes
<popey> erk
<Laney> anyone got nagios that they want to set up to text me when that url stops working? :D
<popey> you could repurpose the script I used for seeing if nexus 4 was in stock âº
<popey> https://github.com/bilalakhtar/NexusNotifier
<Laney> heh
<popey> (which worked perfectly)
<BigRedS> common way to get free SMSs with *some* lag is to use the google calendar API
<Laney> your appointment to power cycle your pandaboard is now
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<BigRedS> Can I get ~250GB of SSD for ~Â£100?
<BigRedS> if so, anyone got any suggests of where I can get one?
<popey> is 240GB okay?
<popey> thats the round number they do
<popey> and no, about 125 is going rate for low end 240GB SSD
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/396877-ocz-240gb-vertex-plus-r2-ssd-vtxplr2-25sat2-240g
<popey> still better than spinning rust
<BigRedS> yeah, that'll do. I've got used to all this space on my laptopm but I'm also really bored of dropping it and killing disks
<popey> what laptop out of interest?
<BigRedS> my Thinkpad X201
<popey> i have two SSDs in my x220
<popey> you may be able to fit one in yours
<BigRedS> Oooh, where's the second one?
<popey> in the slot where the 3g modem goes
<popey> dunno if thats an option on the 201
<BigRedS> hmm, I've got to take it apart to reglue the case together, so I'll see if there's a suitable-looking space :)
<BigRedS> what have you plugged it into?
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CT256M4SSD3-256GB-mSATA-Internal/dp/B0085J17UA
<popey> its one of them
<popey> mSATA
<popey> smaller capacities at lower prices are available
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> apparently x220 was the first to get msata :(
<popey> bummer â¹
<BigRedS> yeah. 240GB's okay though, just need to explain to work why buying one SSD now makes more sense than repeatedly RMAing my disks...
<AlanBell> buying an SSD always makes sense
 * popey touches copious amounts of wood before saying...
<popey> "I've never had an SSD fail yet"
<dwatkins> I wonder what the sweet spot is at the moment for price vs capacity with SSDs versus spinning rust
<BigRedS> yeah, but we've huge stoock of spinning rust disks so they like using those
<popey> and I have 6 of them
<dwatkins> I know someone who says he's never had a disk fail, he's been lucky, and migrates to a new disk within a couple years for all his data.
<BigRedS> Ah, I tend to do it the other way around. I finally get round to upgrading to a bigger disk when the current one fails
<dwatkins> I'm just about to buy a NAS, probably a DS-413j
<dwatkins> I'll populate it with two mirrored 3 TB disks at first, then buy another couple later on to make a 16 TB filesystem.
<dwatkins> correction, 9 TB (RAID 5)
<dwatkins> 16 TB is the absolute (unprotected) maximum capacity of the device with incredibly expensive 4 TB disks.
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: can you join #wolveslug for a bit save repeating everything
<bigcalm> davmor2: done, bit quiet though
<davmor2> always is
<bigcalm> davmor2: was there a reason you wanted me to join?
<davmor2> now you know sorry wifey got back from the docs and was just filling me in :)
<bigcalm> :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: popey: so Virginmedia has been bought for 23.3 billion by us based liberty global
<bigcalm> davmor2: is this a good or bad thing?
<davmor2> seems like mr Branson is selling lots at the minute,  49% of virgin atlantic, virgin media, I think it is all to fund virgin galatic
<davmor2> bigcalm: pass by it'll be worth keeping an eye on once it goes through
<dwatkins> interesting stuff, davmor2 - http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/feb/06/virgin-media-takeover-john-malone-liberty-global
<davmor2> s/by/but
<mungbean> branson didn't own virgin media did he? i thought it was a branding exercise by ntl/telewest
<davmor2> mungbean: no ntl and telewest started to merge then got bought by the virgin group once it had merged
<mungbean> they bought the whole thing?
<mungbean> they are in my top 3 companies not to deal with
<mungbean> scummers
<davmor2> mungbean: Yeap, that's why all the telewest owned channels had to be renamed
<mungbean> (terrible customer service, stealing money from me and threatening bailiffs etc, poor service that they never fixed, refusal to support linux, refusal to allow me to record calls)
<davmor2> as their licence to broadcast moved over to virgin
<daubers> mungbean: I had that same experience with VM
<daubers> Got the ever immmortal line of, after asking for them to return a couple of hundred quid they took from my account they weren't due, thatthey couldn't refund it "because we're not a bank"
<davmor2> mungbean: you must of been really unlucky, I've had great service once I figured out how to bypass the indian call center
<mungbean> i had an old cable london connection and the engineer said i could never have digital on it since the qualty was so poor, and my broadband only worked during school hours, dropped 30% ping in weekend and evenings
<mungbean> they refused to do anything about it
<dwatkins> davmor2: how did you bypass them?
<mungbean> so i had to cancel the service
<mungbean> then i sold the house to my sister and she had VM due to existing contract and soon got rid of it
<Lunix> Hi all :) I have a little problem with a software that doesn't work anymore since 12.10, anyone to help ? :$
<dwatkins> mungbean: I live in a 120 year old building and use my telephone line for 12 MBit internets, I'd be switching providers if anyone told me that
<mungbean> they kept saying the box outside was overloaded and they would switch me to a less loaded box, but in reality they oversold the service
<mungbean> and was popular in my area which was densely populated
<davmor2> dwatkins: ring the disconnect line and say are you the english call center.  Oh great I've been messed around by the indian call center too many times to deal with them now, then tell them your issue
<mungbean> so nobody got a decent service
<dwatkins> davmor2: cunning, personally I think that having call centres in other countries is a false economy
<dwatkins> you end up with annoyed customers which costs more in terms of reputation etc.
<davmor2> dwatkins: I agree, plus they get proper training in the uk and just follow the script in india
<mungbean> i have a recorded phone call with them when they told me to disable antivirus, i said, "no i've enabled ping on my router, there is no machine attached and i still get 30% packet loss =56k modem speed". they said, "sir please disable your AV.". i got annoyed and said this is nothing to do with antivirus, i don't even run windows anyway, i run linux. then they said , sir we cannot support that, goodbye
<Lunix> Am I the only one for who Logkeys doesn't log anymore since Ubuntu 12.10 ?
<dwatkins> davmor2: yeah, I suspect some of the issues are cultural, both in terms of the differences between language use and the different ways people approach a problem, having someone in the same country or one close by makes it more likely you will be understood in many ways.
<dwatkins> mungbean: yeah, I've heard worse - PC World refusing to replace a laptop with a broken hinge because Linux was installed
<davmor2> dwatkins: it also helps if you point out that you are a hardware technician and well as a QA software engineer so you know it is an issue there end as your home network is working fine :)
<dwatkins> davmor2: yeah, although they sometimes carry on with their script because the assumption is that anyone could say they know what they are doing and may or may not be right, sadly.
<shauno> far too often, it's an accurate assumption
<directhex> coo, steam's now showing 50 of my games as linux games
<dwatkins> I tend to complain to companies via twitter, e.g. @BTCare - they tend to get someone in the callcentre in Ireland to call me back
<dwatkins> directhex: yeah, I've noticed a huge improvement in the last couple days in that :D
 * dwatkins was very happy to play half-life on Linux recently
<davmor2> dwatkins: see that's another one, I go into pc world and tell them straight what I want an what I am going to do with it, they say you know you can't return it if there is a problem, to which I say yes I can but to be honest the 1 year warranty is with the manufacturer and not you any how so I don't really care
<Azelphur> I've been playing uplink for the first time recently
<directhex> dwatkins, Counter-Strike: Source was uploaded last night
<directhex> also Psychonauts and Closure
<dwatkins> davmor2: your mistake there was going in to PC World ;)
<dwatkins> directhex: ooh, the source one too, excellent
<davmor2> dwatkins: sometimes in the sale it is the best place to go, everyone was selling my new work laptop at Â£900-1000 pc world sale Â£850
<dwatkins> yeah, I sometimes go to PC World for things which are cheap enough that I can take the hit if it breaks and they refuse to replace it.
<dwatkins> I tend to buy certain things form John Lewis as they're much better at warranties.
<shauno> I noticed a side effect of getting old and boring, is that I'd rather pay 900 instead of 850 if I trust the vendor isn't going to treat me like a leper
<mungbean> can't remember my steam login :(
<mungbean> dwatkins: still waiting for my price match reply ...
<daubers> oooooh psychonauts
<ali1234> directhex: did that bug in psychonauts ever get fixed? i've been holding off playing it cos of that
<daubers> wonder if my new pc can run that
<directhex> ali1234, haven't checked
<ali1234> looks like no
<mungbean> anyone tried amazon glacier storage?
<mungbean> for backups
<mungbean> what does steam client install do? it's taken over 10 mins so far
<mungbean> "applying changes"
<marsilainen> hi all, I've just upgraded a 10.04 server to 12.04 and I'm having a few issues with postfix - I'm getting mail delivered coming from local services, but mail coming in from remote servers are getting 'deferred'
<marsilainen> in the mail.log I get messages like this when an incoming mail arrives: status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: connect to 127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:11124: Connection refused)
<marsilainen> I think this might be related to an 'lmtp' line in my postfix master.cf - if I disable that line then I get a different message but I'm not sure
<zleap> normally when you upgrade stuff it asks if you want to keep previous configurtion
<marsilainen> any ideas how to debug this?
<zleap> configuration
<zleap> maybe just try it,k and see what happens
<zleap> you then rule things out one by one
<marsilainen> zleap: yes, I got a bunch of those during the install - generally I kept the old configuration, but I can't remember specifically for this
<marsilainen> try what?
<zleap> oj you tried disablling a line in the master.cf sorry
<directhex> sounds like a master.cf issue to me
<marsilainen> if I disable lmtp in master.cf then the message changes to: status=deferred (mail transport unavailable)
<marsilainen> not sure where to go from here really
<marsilainen> agree it sounds like a master.cf issue of some sort, I'm just not too familiar with postfix config to know what to try next...
<marsilainen> here is my master.cf: http://pastebin.com/0fCL0GR2
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, I fancy something different for lunch today. Any good suggestions?
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, lebanese!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice idea, but I don't think there is one in Farnham.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And Beirut (albeit a totally awesome place) is rather far to nip out for a snack.
<directhex> FISH AND CHIPS THEN >8\/
<TheOpenSourcerer> yawn. having that for dinner :-(
<marsilainen> ok, I've fixed it
<marsilainen> I'm not sure exactly what I did yet
<marsilainen> but it's receiving mail again now
<marsilainen> will have to try re-enabling things
<directhex> http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2013/02/motorhead-releases-bag-in-box-shiraz/
<ali1234> hahaha i know what i'm getting my brother next christmas
<bigcalm> Any recommendations for an opensource alternative to DropBox that will: 1. hosted by our company, 2. have Windows and Linux clients, 3. integrate with the client OS
<czajkowski> ubuntuone :)
<directhex> ubuntuone is hosted by canonical
<BigRedS> bigcalm: sparkleshare
<directhex> so fails 1
<bigcalm> czajkowski: and that's using our own storage?
<BigRedS> It's git based
<czajkowski> could buy storage
<BigRedS> which I still think is an odd choice but I can't argue with the fact that it works
<directhex> sparkleshare is okay, although not great for binary files, due to git bloating on binary files
<BigRedS> yeah, I was just typing a long caveat to that effect :)
<bigcalm> :)
<BigRedS> I'm using it with a bunch of images (photos, not filesystems) and general documents and it seems fine, though
<BigRedS> Also it's less good with huge numbers of files and lots of changes. But the person who told me that hasn't found anything else that he reckons is good, too
<bigcalm> BigRedS: how about xls, doc, sqlite3 dbs?
<directhex> it's actually much better with that scenario than others
<directhex> e.g. owncloud doesn't scale at all with files, whereas sparkleshare does if you run an announce server
<bigcalm> PDFs as well
<directhex> there are essentially two problems with the whole idea
<directhex> 1) detecting changed files locally, quickly
<BigRedS> bigcalm: my ~/Documents is sparkleshared and I've not noticed any problems. Bunch of PDFs, od* etc. but only a few tens
<directhex> 2) detecting changed files remotely, quickly
<directhex> owncloud fails miserably at both
<directhex> sparkleshare does well at both
<bigcalm> directhex: looks like I'll be recommending sparkleshare as a possibility then
<directhex> bigcalm, other than the previously mentioned git-related caveats
<directhex> sparkleshare does *not* do any kind of fine-grained access control, as it's just git. and standard git bloats up with binary formats, as it stores a copy of every version of a file ever locally, for binaries, not just changes
<directhex> sparkleshare has no solution to the latter (yet). the former, you might get away with if you manage your git server with gitano
<BigRedS> yeah, I keep meaning to cron a job to clean out the history from my Documents repo
<bigcalm> I knew that would be a problem generally with bins. Showing my ignorance, are pdf xls doc etc treated as binary?
<BigRedS> yeah
<bigcalm> Ok
<bigcalm> Well, locally hosted on a RAID1 of a couple of 1 TB drives might be able to cope with that
<directhex> xlsx, docx, odt, etc, are zip
 * awilkins thinks diabolical thoughts about bypassing the email attachment stripping system which doesn't like ZIP much
 * awilkins notes that it passes MS Office documents JUST FINE
<bigcalm> awilkins: rename .zip files to .docx?
<awilkins> Yeah, that would probably work
<awilkins> It looks through the innards for executable files on ZIP
<bigcalm> I assume that that it does more than just look at the extension. Reading the head of the file usually is more relyable
<awilkins> And refuses to pass encrypted ones because of that thing the trojan writers did for a while
<awilkins> bigcalm, Assuming that a corporate email system and the decisions of those running it makes any sense is interesting
<awilkins> bigcalm, For a long while you could get past the filter on .exe by renaming it .sexy
<awilkins> Not sure if that still works
<awilkins> Our instant messaging client blocks file sends
<awilkins> And by the client, I mean the client.
<BigRedS> haha#
<awilkins> You connect a Linux client to the server and either end can send files with no trouble at all
<dwatkins> we have a mail filter that holds messages with certain attachments in a separate mailbox
<awilkins> And all linked to the bone-headed design of Windows to base file executable flag on filename
<dwatkins> you get a mail telling you to log in and decide if you want a particular mail delivered, whitelist users etc.
<dwatkins> I think it's provided by Postini.
<awilkins> dwatkins, I wish ours was that sensible, it just removes the attachment and says NOOOOOO
<dwatkins> awilkins: yeah, sounds troublesome if no-one's notified at either end
<dwatkins> just use DCC ;)
<awilkins> Hah, they have a real problem with "non-auditable communication"
<dwatkins> in my last job we used IRC internally within support and engineering to great effect
<dwatkins> IRC can be logged on the server, can't it?
<awilkins> To which I say " am I now banned from making phone calls and having conversations at desks"
<dwatkins> phone calls can be recorded
<awilkins> Not my private phone
<dwatkins> many years ago the CEO of an online commerce company which I worked for made the IT manager have every incoming e-mail copied to one gigantic inbox.
<awilkins> But the Cisco IP phones we use, very definitely
<awilkins> Would love to use IRC
<dwatkins> they couldn't do this for outgoing mail, but it's easily set for incoming mail on MS Exchange
 * dwatkins puts the space in carefully
<awilkins> The IM server drops connection every so often
<awilkins> And unsent messages are not queued awaiting ACKs
<awilkins> The client just goes "DERP didn't send message because (obscure error code)"
<dwatkins> can you just start using IRC until it becomes the defacto standard? ;)
<awilkins> Alas, no
<awilkins> Microsoft Office Communication Server (renamed to something cooler now I think)
<dwatkins> shame; I had much success with it in my previous existence
<dwatkins> oh that, yeah
<dwatkins> we use Jabber internally here
<awilkins> Not enough techies in this enterprise
<awilkins> Yeah, I set up a Jabber server once
<awilkins> I think it took me 20 mins and most of that was reading man pages
<jussi> jeah, jabber here also
<dwatkins> iirc Jabber is the same protocol which gtalk uses
<BigRedS> jabber here
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> I've realised in the past few weeks that all my IM is Jabber
<BigRedS> Facebook chat is Jabber, too
<awilkins> Still have an MSN account but rarely chat across it
<awilkins> Or read the email box
<dwatkins> I set bitlbee up to connect to facebook, gtalk and MSN, then realised I only use IRC ;)
<BigRedS> yeah, I've still got it, and I've found that I don't care enough to stop using Gajim so I can use MSN again
<awilkins> I use XChat because Empathy doesn't do IRC well
<BigRedS> dwatkins: I keep meaning to use bitlbee, but it's harder to get notifications when the chats are turning up in irssi on a remote ssh host :)
<dwatkins> BigRedS: if you have a linux box you can probably setup fnotify for that
<dwatkins> ...or growl
<BigRedS> yeah, it's all linux
<BigRedS> I looked into it briefly, but notifications are iffy enough with desktop apps that I'm not sure I'd trust something of my own concoction
<dwatkins> I used fnotify, this page describes the kind of thing you can do, but I agree it's fraught with dangers: http://wiki.shellium.org/w/Irssi_gui_notify
<dwatkins> sorry, wrong link, this was what I setup, BigRedS - http://thorstenl.blogspot.ie/2007/01/thls-irssi-notification-script.html
<BigRedS> oooh, ta
<BigRedS> might revisit that :)
<dwatkins> if you have ssh access to the machine running irssi (which I guess you will if you're connecting to a screen session) it should work reasonably well, assuming you don't need to watch the bandwidth.
<BigRedS> nah, I work in the same DC as the server's in
<dwatkins> nice
<BigRedS> bandwidth is pretty good :)
<dwatkins> just be aware any hilighted text setup in /hilight will create a pop-up
<Daviey> dwatkins: that was good in 2007... but 2013?  tailing a log file over ssh?
 * BigRedS wonders what has changed in the meantime to stop that working
<dwatkins> Daviey: I think I'm still using the same linux version as I was in 2007 ;)
<Daviey> BigRedS: Nothing. carry on.
<Daviey> Just that you should be able to do this stuff with more grace now.
<dwatkins> it should only send a single line of text via ssh if there's a hilight, I get far more activity on many IRC channels
<BigRedS> Daviey: that's a nice thought, but rarely true :)
<dwatkins> you could probably code some kind of socket-based application to do this, but the functionality is all there in the shell with ssh
<Daviey> I experimented with using XMPP
 * xnox no longer can use the excuse "i run linux" to escape the gamers *sigh*
<awilkins> The downside to Steam on Linux is not I don't have to reboot to Windows to play a game. Another threat to productivity *sigh*
<Daviey> Yeah, linux is far too mainstream now.  I'm switching to the Hurd.
<awilkins> I think the only thing that runs on Hurd is CoreWar
<xnox> Well, kfreebsd is sort of non-mainstream
<BigRedS> yeah, but surely that wrecks productivity by requiring fixing?
<brobostigon> suggestion, eeepc 900 plugged in, has power, press power button nothing, no power lights, shutdown fine a few hours ago.
<kvarley> brobostigon: Can you hard reset it?
<brobostigon> kvarley: how?
<kvarley> brobostigon: Some laptops have a mode that resets the bios and other stuff on boot. I think some of them just make you hold the power button down for ages, others use key combos
<brobostigon> kvarley: i see.
<brobostigon> kvarley: i am getting no results for a hard reset, all presume a running systems that gets to the bios.
<kvarley> brobostigon: hmhm sounds like hardware failure then
<kvarley> brobostigon: Can you take the battery out and boot it just from the charger?
<brobostigon> kvarley: that was the next thing on my list.
<brobostigon> kvarley: i just pulled the bettery and the charger, hit the bios reset, on the bottom, put the battery and charger back in, no mouse, and it booted. very weird.
<kvarley> heh
<kvarley> brobostigon: at least it works :)
 * kvarley just bought CS:Source ... yey for steam releases :)
<brobostigon> kvarley: yes, but why that helped, is strange.
<czajkowski> /c/c
<kvarley> Just realised something, if Valve's Steambox will be running Linux I wonder how much pressure Valve will put on publishers of big AAA titles to release Linux ports?
<AlanBell> wonder what display server it will use
<AlanBell> X or Weyland or something else
<kvarley> AlanBell: Hehe
<kvarley> AlanBell: Do you need X or Wayland to run opengl?
<AlanBell> dunno really
<kvarley> Well, the answer may be neither then :P
<kvarley> Could just boot Steam fullscreen rendering via opengl
<amayer_> kvarley: is CSS avaliable on linux?
<amayer_> I already own it. i wonder if i can play on linux
<kvarley> amayer_: Yes & yes you can
<amayer_> Thats awesome!
<SuperMatt> huh, don't know why I didn't think of this before: ln -s ~/.config/google-chrome ~/.config/chromium
<awilkins> AFAIK a lot of the performance increase in the new nvidia drivers is getting Compiz out of the way of fullscreen OpenGL
<awilkins> Whatever display server gets used, I think fullscreen OpenGL will just be "special local magic"
<popey> nah
<popey> thats separate
<popey> we implemented unredirected windows for compiz a little while ago]
<awilkins> I liked the look of those little computers they had as Steamboxes
<awilkins> Shame they're so expensive
<awilkins> But I'm really keen to root a Steambox and make it into an HTPC now :-)
<awilkins> Console subsidy 4tw
<mungbean> steam seems a bit buggy on my machine,. and thats just logging in
<brobostigon> are there any purely terminal clients, to connect to a l2tp/ipsec server ?
<mungbean> freeswan/openswan brobostigon
<brobostigon> mungbean: ah, thank you, i have heard of openswan, freeswan is new to me,
<mungbean> one is a fork of the other
<mungbean> never remember which one
<mungbean> use the correct one only :)
<brobostigon> :)
<mungbean> i've redeemed my humble bundles on steam , but certain linux games don't appear (super meat boy etc) - anyone know why?
<BigRedS> is there an amd64 deb for steam?
<BigRedS> mungbean: I had that with TF2 for a while. One day it just appeared, so I can't really be that useful...
<popey> BigRedS: no
<popey> its 32-bit only
<mungbean> i tried going to all games and choosing the game to install
<mungbean> says not available for your system
<popey> mungbean: ask directhex he knows and has a post all about it
<mungbean> popey: so only 17 of my 42 games work :S
<mungbean> i have certianly run them on 64bit
<mungbean> i will look for directhex
<mungbean> post
<directhex> <mungbean> i've redeemed my humble bundles on steam , but certain linux games don't appear (super meat boy etc) - anyone know why? <-- because a build needs to be uploaded to steam by the developer. many haven't.
<BigRedS> popey: Oh. How very 1990s
<mungbean> thanks chaps
<mungbean> doesn't sound like it will happen?
<Azelphur> popey: do you know of any tool that allows me to live stream my desktop?
<mungbean> to many users ?
<Azelphur> yea, via a service like ustream.tv, twitch.tv, whatever
<mungbean> vlc does it i think?
<Azelphur> (inb4 jtvlc, it doesn't work and has been unmaintained since 2009)
<Azelphur> vlc can do the capture, but i need to send it somewhere.
<popey> no
<Azelphur> what was that tool you always rant about for screen recording? perhaps that does it
<popey> it doesnt
<popey> kazam
<Azelphur> aww
<popey> is this for many viewers or one?
<popey> or for recording
<Azelphur> for a few viewers
<popey> google hangout?
<AlanBell> VLC could do it
<Azelphur> can google hangout grab screen:// ?
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> oO
<Azelphur> I'll try it
<popey> well, your desktop
<popey> dunno about that specific name
 * AlanBell did not know hangouts did screensharing
<popey> we use them at work for demoing stuff
<popey> also skype
<popey> and chrome
<AlanBell> so it does
<popey> they can all do this
<Azelphur> yep, this is cool
<ali1234> meeanwhile in open source land we still can't get glitch free audio to work properly
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Oh?
<solarcloud> daftykins: I tried to buy a laptop last night, & I've just got back home, and they ell me they don't post to any dependencies because they have to pay customs money .. Does that sound ridiculous to you. ??
<solarcloud> **they tell me ....
<popey> "they" being?
<MartijnVdS> the people who own the black helicopters
<solarcloud> hangon .. it's just an ebay dealer , but what would you know popey ?
<popey> ok, forget it, I'll go talk to my children.
<solarcloud> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160968205895?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
<ali1234> popey: no need to have a huff, he just missed a word out
<solarcloud> true.
 * solarcloud gives popey the peace sign .. :)
<daubers> Azelphur: Best to test if they support File:// from osx too.....
 * solarcloud thnks popey is really 'hobes' the tiger without his fur on :D
<solarcloud> AlanBell: must therefore be Calvin ....
<solarcloud> but I'll stop being Silly now :)
<marsilainen> anyone here good at apache rewrite rules?
<marsilainen> struggling to do this... should be simple enough... I want any request such as http://myserver/dev/foo/bar to be rewritten to http://myserver/app_dev.php/foo/bar
<Myrtti> oh man, your nickname throws me off guard :-D
 * Myrtti hides underneath a table
<marsilainen> :)
<awilkins> marsilainen, Presume you are trying mod_rewrite
<marsilainen> awilkins: yeah, been trying for the last half an hour :)
<marsilainen> I always find this stuff frustrating for some reason
<marsilainen> probably because I don't have to touch it that often
<awilkins> Try
<awilkins> RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} ^/dev
<awilkins> RewriteRule ^/dev/(.*) /app_dev.php/$1
 * awilkins goes out to get some dinner for his long suffering wifelet
<marsilainen> no, that doesn't work I'm afraid
<marsilainen> thanks anyway
<solarcloud> What channel do I ask about hooking up printer drivers ?
<Nick07> I need to know howto make my ubuntu 10.10 start and login without monitor
<solarcloud> Come on guys, there's at least two queries in the last hour !!
<popey> solarcloud: #ubuntu is the official support channel
<popey> nick07 didn't stay longer than 90 seconds.
<Azelphur> the old ask n run
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ha ha! Made you answer!
<Azelphur> :p
<MartijnVdS> +""
<popey> hah
<solarcloud> OK sorry peeps. solarcloud slaps his wrists  .. sorry Hobbes :)
<tix> HELLO ENGLAND
<tix> GREETINGS FROM AMERICA
<tix> i heard you're afraid of gunz
<MartijnVdS> tix: I heard you're afraid of healthcare
<tix> i have healthcare
<tix> as do the vast majority of americans
<tix> the US has the best hospitals in the world, as well
<tix> we just don't give people healthcare for free
<MartijnVdS> !troll
<tix> how am i a troll?
<MartijnVdS> you come into an Ubuntu-related channel shouting about "'MURRICA"
<ali1234> lulz
<ali1234> how do i get git-svn installed?
<popey> git-svn - fast, scalable, distributed revision control system (svn interoperability)
<popey> ?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: other than the obvious apt-get install git-svn? :)
<ali1234> everyone complaining that a portal movie is a stupid idea because portal has no story, when half-life has no story either
<ali1234> "freeman, go shoot loads of aliens and then press a button"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: other way around
<MartijnVdS> "Freeman, go press a button and then accidentally unleash an alien/inter-dimensional invasion"
 * MartijnVdS just played that bit again :P
<Azelphur> Are there any good USB fingerprint readers that work with Ubuntu?
<Azelphur> for those of us who are too lazy to type a password ;)
<popey> I've only ever used integrated ones
<popey> check out the thinkfinger pages, they may say
<Azelphur> yea most of the docs are about integrated ones, I'll check out thinkfinger
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: mine works with some binary magic
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: in my Vaio
<Azelphur> xD
<MartijnVdS> https://launchpad.net/~fingerprint/+archive/fingerprint-gui
<MartijnVdS> it's a "proprietary" plugin to libfprint
<Azelphur> I noticed that too, bunch of USB:IDs won't be too useful to me ;)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: why? lsusb will tell you the id
<Azelphur> Because going out and buying a reader on the offchance that it's in that list seems like a bad idea? ;)
<MartijnVdS> ah, yes.. you don't have the reader yet
<Azelphur> don't think the thinkfinger site has a compatibility list
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: which one are you considering?
<Azelphur> I'm not considering any specific reader
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.amazon.co.uk/TrueMe-Secure-Fingerprint-Reader-Software/dp/B006YG9MU8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360187516&sr=8-1
<MartijnVdS> UPEK = should be in that list
<MartijnVdS> (the fingerprint-gui list)
<Azelphur> cool
<MartijnVdS> but that means it requires the blobby plugin
<MartijnVdS> some other readers don't
<Azelphur> just to be ridiculously picky, I want a black one P
<Azelphur> :P
<popey> "Compatible with: Windows XP/Vista/7/CE, Linux, Mac OS, Snow, Lion
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/fprint/libfprint/Supported%20devices
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: aha, that will be useful
 * MartijnVdS Zzz
<daftykins> solarcloud: 'customs money' sounds like a bit of a joke yeah
<redtape-renegade> daftykins: I'm going through a bit of an identity change atmo. as I've changed fro,m solarcloud (which is abit presumptuous) to redtape-renegade as this basically tells people what as opposed to who I am .. hope you like it.
<daftykins> i see, i see
<redtape-renegade> I think I'll wordpress it too .. hangon ...
<redtape-renegade> yep it's available .. yippee !
<redtape-renegade> daftykins: Sorry about that .. had to change the damn batteries for my chillout channel ... How's life in the channel ?
<daftykins> i dunno i've been away for a day or two ^_^
<daftykins> been doing some things at my new place
<redtape-renegade> Really, sounds nice :)
<redtape-renegade> I've had a b4tch of a 48 hours as my main desktop went down .. left using the netbook on the spare 19" monitor ..  oh dear me :(
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> what was up with it?
<redtape-renegade> Still I've had more insights into setting up a workstation for my python coding workspace ...
<redtape-renegade> Oh the main one , dunno .. computer says No after BIOS ?/
<redtape-renegade> in fact it doesn't get past the motherboard screen at start  .. Ahhhrgh
<redtape-renegade> Oh well back to the 1990's way on computing :)
<redtape-renegade> **of
<daftykins> 'No' ? :)
<redtape-renegade> It says nothing .. just freezes .. at BIOS screen.
<redtape-renegade> it is 4 years old though ..
 * redtape-renegade shamefully admits to it being 'another' ebay bargain .. :-[
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> interesting
<daftykins> a CMOS reset is always worth a go in those situations
<daftykins> either locate the motherboard jumper, or just remove the mains cable from the PSU and remove the little CR2032 battery from the motherboard overnight
<redtape-renegade> Anyway, I can't saved those that have been killed in action as they say .. so on with the somewhat minor GHz desktop to displayPort Dell monitor .. just need to find an 'adapter' of some sort .. [must resist ebaying this time :) ]
<redtape-renegade> oh ok .. will do that tomorrow .. thanx.
<redtape-renegade> the adapter will be from old type monitor dispay to display Port .. wait I'll google that one ... hangon ...
<daftykins> to go from netbook -> displayport?
<daftykins> what does the netbook have, VGA out only?
<redtape-renegade> Yeah meant VGA . sorry . So infrequent I use the term , I forgot, sorry .. Anyway .. it's from desktop...
<redtape-renegade> http://www.amazon.co.uk/PNY-Mini-DisplayPort-VGA-Adapter/dp/B007WPKFVA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1360194034&sr=8-4
<redtape-renegade> Good 'ol' PNY .. do they ever fail to produce the goods ?
<daftykins> that's going the wrong way around
<redtape-renegade> oh yeah , your right .. what do i do now then ?
<daftykins> well converting VGA to DP is likely gonna be a no go, or expensive
<redtape-renegade> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-Matters-Plated-Premium-DisplayPort/dp/B005RISB3S/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1360194240&sr=8-4
<redtape-renegade> do it ?
<daftykins> again, that's going the wrong way :)
<redtape-renegade> is it ?
<daftykins> yeah read the bulletpoints
<daftykins> i think you're out of luck on that one
<redtape-renegade> no I think I am ok .. it goes like this ..
<daftykins> you're going from analog to digital so there'd be some active conversion in there to do it
<redtape-renegade> female VGA to VGA Male to Male DisplayPort Cable in Black - 2m (last link ) .. > Male Display port Cable to 'Female to Female' Diplay port adapter (that I already have [ http://goo.gl/4gG4Z ]) ...> Female display port adapter to male displayPort cable that is 'fixed' into Dell monitor .. And that's part of a series of conundrums I've solved under the 'redtape-renegade the soon-to-be-blog'. So you are unfortunately wrong. But good try :)
<redtape-renegade> basically two lead and a Female to Female Coupler . but that's too easy to say it like that !!
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-07
 * redtape-renegade has earned a rollie break .. BRBack ..
<daftykins> honestly i really don't think you can do that
<daftykins> the description even says: "But it is not a bi-directional adapter. It won't pass signal from VGA to DisplayPort. "
<redtape-renegade> oh Ok then .. I'm disappointed that my lego skills have failed me ..
<daftykins> ^_^
 * redtape-renegade smokes on ...
<daftykins> because VGA is analog you need something to actively process the video and spit out digital y'see
<redtape-renegade> Yeah, I did get carried away abit ..
<redtape-renegade> The reason is ..
<redtape-renegade> While I was using Ubuntu on my main computer with 4 displayport adapters, At start-up when I first Logged on all the screen flashed with Ubuntu for 2 seconds (even showing the cursor moving on other/any screens) .. Then it just goes to the middle one .. as if to say .. Yes , we can do it , but your not a 'developer' so well just give you the 'basic' option and leave you with one as opposed to 3 or four. For a second or two  was in 'Ubuntu -ALL OF THE 
<redtape-renegade> .. I blame the fanta I'm on tonight ..
<daftykins> ;)
<redtape-renegade> Anyway .. it's getting late .. & I'm errano-ly off topic, So I best quit whilst I have dignity ...
<redtape-renegade> bye for now daftykins.
<daftykins> later o/
<jacobw> morning
<popey> morning
<dwatkins> morning
<daubers> Morning
<kvarley> First Ubuntu phones by October! \0/ http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/02/first-ubuntu-phone-available-october-says-shuttleworth
<kvarley> daubers: \0
<popey> âº
<kvarley> I've just staged some files using git cola, is there a way I can unstage them?
<kvarley> I haven't pushed yet but realised I made a mistake on the commit message
<kvarley> Ah, I can reset it via command line but it'll wipe my changes
<hoover> hi folks
<bigcalm> popey: AlanBell: czajkowski: ping
<hoover> Hey biggie!
<bigcalm> Hi hoover. Are you keeping well?
<hoover> Yep, of sorts I guess. Yourself?
<bigcalm> Over worked but keeping it together I think :)
<czajkowski> ello....
<AlanBell> hi bigcalm
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<popey> bigcalm: hmm?
<bigcalm> Where's christel? Haven't seen her about for a while
<czajkowski> not on irc as busy
<mungbean> libreoffice 4 out :D
<mungbean> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.0
<hoover> Hey JamesTait
<JamesTait> hoover, o/
<hoover> I'm currently fighting a 200gb myisam Mariadb database
<hoover> not fun 8(
<JamesTait> I'm making sure Facebook didn't break anything for us with their monthly breaking changes (looks like it's all fine) before resuming work on simplifying part of our test suite.
<JamesTait> The sucker punch is that after being up late last night working on it, I discover this morning that we have no coffee in the house. :(
<Laney> sounds like you need a coffee subscription ^o)
 * popey hugs Laney 
<Laney> el popey
 * Laney plays some flamenco
<Laney> dear god what is happening to my laptop?
<Laney> load average: 19.10, 14.43, 9.63
 * popey puts bets on syncdaemon
<Laney> nothing is chewing cpu
<Laney> it's something to do with io
<Laney> oh god ...
<popey> \o/ dots
<Laney> REBOOT TIME
 * Laney watches sudo reboot fail to do anything
<Laney> well this is disturbing
<popey> Azelphur: seen CS:Source is now working on Linux ;)
<jacobw> what's the shortest way to licence my program as GPL?
<jacobw> i don't want a comment block in my code with the full disclaimer
<mungbean> any reason why ubuntu encrypted install crashes on kvm during install?
<mungbean> had to use 9.10 and upgrade all the way
<SuperMatt> there's no way to upgrade all the way in one step, is there?
<popey> mungbean: not enough information
<popey> jacobw: there's a small block http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html
<mungbean> installing ubuntu 12.04 server as a VM  on kvm , choose encryped disk during the alternate cli installer, install crashes
<popey> at what point?
<popey> there's an install log which can be extracted
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> Hi
<brobostigon> morning popey'ness
<Laney> pey'ness /me sniggers
<popey> get back in your slanket, Lane.
<Laney> had the heating on this morning :( :( :(
<jacobw> popey: thanks
<mungbean> popey: turns out its not an installer issue as i've been told that sometimes the install completes and the machine randomly crashes after that
<popey> delightful
<mungbean> i'm going to let them fanny around exploring that one
<brobostigon> cool, just got the latest k9-mail build, and it finally has a threaded view, of a kind.
<einonm> I'm looking at filling in one of those ubuntu wiki profile home page things - is there a template for one somewhere?
<Darael> At this point, I have two images of a 750G hard drive on one 1T drive.
<popey> einonm: just use someone elses page âº
<einonm> popey: thanks. Well volunteered :) I was hoping to avoid having to delete someone else's waffling before adding my own
<popey> hah
<popey> make sure you copy my amazon wishlist onto your page ;)
<directhex> is the "featured linux games" pane on the front of steampowered.com new?
<Darael> directhex: FSVO "new", certainly (I have no idea *what* V, of course).
<popey> yes, not seen that before
<directhex> i'm not sure about steamdb's "confirmed working" list - supposedly defcon works, but not for me
<Adriannom> hi.  i have an nvidia geforce 7300 gs which i can't seem to get working with the nvidia drivers.  i've googled loads but nothing helped.  i have nvidia-current installed and my display is fixed at 800x600 or lower.  when i load nvidia-settings i get "You do not appear to be using the NVIDIA X driver.  Please edit your X configuration file (just run `nvidia-xconfig` as root), and restart the X server." - which i do, bu
<Adriannom> t it doesn't stop the error message.  anyone know anything i can try?
<popey> Adriannom: 7300 is a bit "old" by modern standards, I suspect the "unified" (hah) driver doesn't support it
<popey> maybe one of the older ones does
<popey> and we've installed the wrong one
<Adriannom> 173 starts me up in safe mode, rather than just giving me 800x600
<Adriannom> though why current doesn't put me into safe mode if i'm not using the driver i don't know?
<popey> Adriannom: does "lsmod | grep nvidia" show the driver loaded?
<Adriannom> nope
<popey> ok, good, so the driver isn't being loaded, thats a good start
<popey> can you pastebin the output from "dpkg -l nvidia* | grep ^ii" ?
<Adriannom> sure
<Adriannom> http://pastebin.com/Ai9FYkTm
<popey> you have a ppa enabled?
<popey> Ubuntu-x-swat
<Adriannom> yup, tried default repos first though
<popey> ok, lets revert back...
<Adriannom> i can remove that
<Adriannom> sure
<popey> you know how to purge it?
<kvarley> How can I change the screen resolution to a specific size in virtual box ubuntu?
 * czajkowski hugs popey you're well smart! 
<kvarley> Guest additions works but I need the resolution to be a certain size for screencasting
<popey> kvarley: in a terminal inside the vm run "watch -d -n 0.1 xrandr"
<popey> then manually resize the virtualbox window until it's the right size âº
<Adriannom> i just removed from software sources and uninstalled nvidia*
<popey> Adriannom: ppa-purge is handy
<kvarley> popey: Any way via xrandr to change it to a size automatically?
<popey> yes
<popey> but it's easier to do it manually tbh
<kvarley> ok
<kvarley> popey: thanks
<popey> it will constantly report the screen res
<popey> thats how i do it anyway
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> afternoon
<popey> </passive_agressive_office_banter>
<Darael> Nope.  Definitely morning.  I haven't eaten yet.
<davmor2> popey: it's 11 am it is still MORNING! ;)
<Adriannom> popey, ok ppa-purge done :)
<popey> Adriannom: sorry, interrupted by mother in law on facebook âº
<popey> Adriannom: so, can you pastebin... "sudo apt-get install --reinstall nvidia-current" ?
<Adriannom> no prob :)
<Adriannom|droid> Popey, catastophy... I thought my system was up to date, realised it wasn't and installed updates before we continue. Now on boot, it seemingly freckle eezes on "disabling saned", and I can't seem to get into low graphics mode... ;|
<Adriannom|droid> Freckle eezes? FREEZES
<Adriannom|droid> stupid predictive text
<popey> heh
<popey> Adriannom|droid: can you get to a recovery mode?
<popey> i.e. a root console
<popey> i prefer freckle eezes
<Adriannom> aha ;)
<Adriannom> was probably the x config
<popey> ok, so you have a desktop now?
<Adriannom> yup
<Adriannom> ok running the install now
<popey> might be worth doing this to see if anything is missing... "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^"
<Adriannom> ok
<Adriannom> couple of things
<Adriannom> i trusted i was up to date because i clicked "update while you install"
<Adriannom> guess that was a mistake :P
<popey> hah
<popey> we lie
<Adriannom> lol
<popey> blame Laney
<popey> or xnox
<popey> or both!
<Adriannom> ok another restart, talk to you about freckle eezes when it goes belly up ;)
<xnox> hmm?
<popey> back in your box!
<Adriannom|droid> Lol
<Adriannom> popey, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1619764/
<popey> ok
<popey> and then you rebooted/
<popey> ?
<Adriannom> nope, will do
<popey> or..
<Adriannom> or
<popey> sudo service lightdm restart
<popey> which will restart your session
<popey> like that
<kvarley> If ubuntu switches to wayland or something similar does that mean compiz will no longer be needed and no additional drivers will be needed to display the unity environment?
<popey> you'll always need drivers âº
<directhex> kvarley, yes and no
<popey> compiz will probably go away
<popey> so that's moot
<directhex> compiz will go away
<davmor2> popey: Adriannom: that just updates the installer not the entire desktop
<popey> davmor2: yeah, thats misleading
<Adriannom|droid> Stuck in console, no errors, reboot?
<directhex> but the question is whether ubuntu ships with a compositor called unity, instead of the reference compositor weston
<popey> Adriannom|droid: yeah, thats easiest
<directhex> in the wayland model you have a wayland server and a compositor, instead of an x11 server and a window manager
<popey> that is indeed a question
<directhex> weston is extensible, but i don't know if it's more work to make unity as an extension to weston, or just fork it off & make something standalne
<davmor2> popey: yeah I think there was a bug for that though
<directhex> the "ubuntu to use its own windowing system!" nonsense in the tech press suggests wayland without weston
<Adriannom> popey, all working... so i guess it was the software update
<Adriannom> ?
<popey> all working okay?
<Adriannom> yeah
<popey> \o/
<popey> huzzah
<Adriannom> :s \o/
<Adriannom> thanks a lot
 * popey celebrates with coffee
<popey> np
<kvarley> I don't know how but guest additions works without me installing it manually on an ubuntu livecd
<Adriannom> anyone know if the global menu is here to stay?
<Adriannom> all i can find on google is stuff saying it'll become optional in 12.04
<popey> i dunno tbh
<kvarley> global menu?
<directhex> the appleism, where the file etc menu are at the top of the screen, not on the window that owns it
<directhex> makes focus-follows-mouse impossible
<sagaci> I hope it stays, makes sense with unity
<popey> yeah, i miss focus follows mouse, a bit
<popey> I tend to just full screen everything these days
<popey> alt-middle click is handy
<popey> (on the title bar)
<popey> pushes to the back of the stack
<Adriannom> cautiously avoiding a debate about it...  it's about time it was optional...
<Adriannom> ;o
<Adriannom> but i guess we must resort to hacks
<sagaci> global menu as opposed to each window having its own menus
<SuperMatt> I could never get on with focus follows mouse
<SuperMatt> because I would often bat my mouse away and type
<Adriannom> nor i
<SuperMatt> only to find my password was being typed in to my irc session
<SuperMatt> that's an extreme example
<Adriannom> it happened though right? ;)
<SuperMatt> I like that I can scroll without focus though
<SuperMatt> nah, not really, but it could
<Adriannom> did to me :o
<davmor2> popey: is maliit really a big issue?does it do something wonderful that isn't done by the accessibility keyboard?
<einonm> +
<popey> davmor2: "the accessibility keyboard"?
<popey> onboard?
<davmor2> popey: yeah sorry I keep forgetting it's not the a11y keyboard
<davmor2> popey: does maliit bring better
<davmor2> popey: as far as I can tell on the n7 onboard is a little sluggish but fairly usable
<popey> dunno about performance, not compared them
<popey> but maliit has some features onboard doesn't (and likely never will have)
<Laney> maliit's mallet http://www.cutebitz.com/images/products/mallets_mallet2.png
<davmor2> popey: ah okay
<ali1234> maliit is a keyboard like you would get n a real smartphone
<popey> âº
<ali1234> onboard is like what you get on windows 95 on screen keyboard
<popey> swipe was based on maliit
<popey> and i _think_ maliit is the keyboard which shipped on the N9
<popey> hmm, when i paste an image from t'internet into a libreoffice impress, it goes from transparent to black background
<popey> annoying
<popey> can you override that?
<kvarley> popey: This isn't for Impress specifically but it may work? http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/1035/paste-unformatted-text-default-option/
<popey> thats for text
<popey> this is an image
<davmor2> popey: libreoffice still java based if so then it might be that the default install is missing a java plugin that makes it work, I could be way off though.
<dwatkins> I thought they'd stopped using Java, but I might be wrong.
<popey> help.libreoffice.org seems down
<dwatkins> It's not just you! http://help.libreoffice.org looks down from here.
<ali1234> popey:
<popey> looks like a bug
<ali1234> just convert transparent image to fixed bg in gimp, and then paste that
<popey> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-bugs/2012-January/034028.html
<popey> yeah, thats what I'm doing now â¹
<ali1234> if transparent worked properly, why would they make default do something completely pointless and then force you to override it? except for the obvious "because that's how open source software works"
<SuperMatt> ooh libre office 4 has unity integration \o/
<ali1234> so does it work if you open transparent bg from a file instead of pasting it?
<ali1234> or does libreoffice just not support transparent images at all?
<popey> no
<popey> tried both
<directhex> Dave2, OOo Base uses Java stuff. I don't think the rest of it does
<directhex> i.e. the standard DB connectivity in OOo Base is via a JDBC layer
<einonm> does anyone know if there's a way to save and restore a set of tabbed terminals in the same window, including their labels and PWDs? On 12.04 or 12.10 Unity.
<einonm> I'm getting fed up of having to set them up every time
<dwatkins> einonm: you can do this with GNU Screen, but using windows inside a single terminal.
<dwatkins> 'windows' in the sense Screen switches between them
 * einonm searches for gnu screen
<einonm> dwatkins: thanks, I'll give it a go
<dwatkins> einonm: it's incredibly powerful, I use it all the time (although some say I should switch to tmux by now), you can setup status lines and populate the windows with specific apps at startup.
<einonm> Cool. Not to bothered about apps, just the PWD being set
<dwatkins> how so, einonm?
<dwatkins> you mean you want to start a shell but cd to a particular directory before doing anything else, automatically?
<einonm> I use cmdln things like vim/git/make, not really one app per window
<einonm> dwatkins: yes, exactly
<dwatkins> should be easy enough to setup in the .screenrc
<dwatkins> screen -t git cd /my/git/directory
<dwatkins> screen -t vi cd /my/vi/directory
<dwatkins> -t for the title of that windw
<dwatkins> I'm sure there are plenty of tutorials on switching between screen windows by now.
<einonm> sure, I'll have a go. I had hoped it would be easy with the default gnome-terminal, but it looks to be vastly underpowered compared to the old gnome-terminal, where you could set the title and geometry up
<dwatkins> I stopped using GUI functionality like this when I realised I much prefer fullscreening the terminal - probably something to do with the fact I just started using a BBC Micro again as a toy ;)
<ali1234> einonm: gnome-terminal --tab --working-directory /tmp --tab --working-directory /home
<ali1234> also -t "tab title" and -e "command to run in tab"
<ali1234> with that you can do everything you want
<einonm> I've managed to start a session with the right number of tabs and correct PWD's, using the --save-config option, but the titles still aren't set
<Adriannom> getting loads of different crazy random bugs with chromium unity webapps, stuff like clicking the launcher icon brings up a bogus chromium icon so there are two icons pointing to the same app, chromium proper stops being able to visit new pages when the webapp is open, sometimes the webapp is open, but the launcher says it isn't, and another click will reopen it.
<ali1234> einonm: you need to go into profile prefs, and make a profile that doesn't allow commands to change the title
<ali1234> then select that profile for the tab
<Adriannom> is this normal?  i hate that i feel like i have to ask that, but it seems "stable" is more like beta with ubuntu these days :(
<ali1234> Adriannom: mismatch between icons and windows is normal for any dock, whether webapps are involved or not
<Adriannom> ... but... it seems pretty fundamental to my usage of the computer...
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> this is why docks are fundamentally broken
<Adriannom> is there a fix?
<ali1234> stop using unity
<ali1234> and don't switch to any of the following: OS X, gnome-shell, docky (plank)
<Adriannom> which would you rate?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> if you want a simple install xubuntu is the best option at the moment
<ali1234> even though sound is broken ootb
<Adriannom> i didn't get on with xfce as much as gnome 2.  mate looks good
<ali1234> MATE isn't available on ubuntu unless you go to a PPA
<Adriannom> been using xubuntu for ages before i just gave unity another shot
<ali1234> and it isn't compatible with indicators
<ali1234> so it doesn't operate like gnome 2 used to in say, 10.04
<Adriannom> indicators?  notification tray stuff or?
<ali1234> yes
<Adriannom> ugh...
<Adriannom> and i suppose i can't have gnome 2?
<ali1234> basically you will get the panel, and you'll have to rely on tray applets from 4 years ago that don't work properly
<ali1234> MATE is the same as having gnome 2
<Adriannom> right
<ali1234> that's the problem: all indicators were ported to gnome 3
<ali1234> MATE is still gnome 2 (gtk2)
<ali1234> XFCE has same problem actually
<ali1234> for now you can actually install gnome fallback and it is mostly like gnome 2 except using gtk3
<ali1234> however gnome developers have decided to stop maintaining it
<Adriannom> gnome fallback seemed a but primitive interface-wise
<ali1234> it does everything gnome 2 did
<ali1234> it's the same code base in fact
<Adriannom> oh, when i tried i couldn't get the toolbars to be sensible.  maybe my error
<ali1234> you have to press windows+alt+right click on toolbars
<ali1234> instead jus right clicking
<Adriannom> right, thanks :)
<ali1234> this is better, it means no more accidents
<Adriannom> although not maintained isn't good, i will just have to go through this again when everything breaks
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> i'm sure someone will pick it up
<ali1234> but as of today linux desktop is a mess of half finished new stuff and unmaintained old stuff
<ali1234> so basically business as usual
<Adriannom> so my choices are the same as they were several releases ago for ubuntu...  if you want an os that works, fo.
<Adriannom> ;o
<ali1234> hmm... it's more like your choices are the same as they were before ubuntu existed
<ali1234> you can choose gnome which is so simplified that it is non-functional
<Adriannom> return to windows you mean? ;)
<ali1234> or KDE that has so much crap you can't find anything
<Adriannom> it's actually tempting ;)
<ali1234> or some weird "other" that doesn't really work and has strange design goals that few people understand
<Adriannom> yeah
<Adriannom> everything was flakey
<Adriannom> and you're right... we're back to flakey
<Azelphur> popey: woo \o/
<ali1234> maybe consort desktop will save us
<ali1234> but i think they'll struggle to get enough backing/support/userbase to really keep the project going
<brobostigon> http://taylorworld.me.uk/ubuntu-uk.html wow, someone talks alot.
<Adriannom> maybe another distro
<ali1234> consort basically is another distro
<Adriannom> ohh
<ali1234> being as it is, created for solusOS (yeah i never heard of it either)
<Adriannom> heh
<brobostigon> other interesting numbers on that page, is also interesting.
<Adriannom> but i guess consort is young yet
<Adriannom> what other distros aren't rubbish?  arch? fedora?
<ali1234> they all have significant problems
<ali1234> fedora is overrun with lennart rubbish
<ali1234> arch users are annoying
<ali1234> debian developers are annoying
<ali1234> slackware is stuck in 1998
<ali1234> take your pick
<Adriannom> lol
<mgdm> everything sucks, pick the one that sucks the least for you
<mgdm> :)
<ali1234> indeed
<Adriannom> when good ui becomes nostalgia...  a sad time
<Adriannom> why are arch users annoying?
<ali1234> well go to #arch and idle for a while
<ali1234> if you don't get annoyed, arch may be for you
<Adriannom> good plan
<Adriannom> i could probably handle annoying users
<ali1234> maybe it was a bad day
<Adriannom> as long as i could actually do shit on my pc
<Adriannom> *stuff
<popey> Adriannom: so let me get this right, you're looking at different distros because webapps are broken?
<ali1234> but last time i visited it was wall to wall toilet humour and 12 year olds showing off
<ali1234> popey: why is that unreasonable?
<popey> i didnt say it's unreasonable, just a leap
<popey> and one you seem to always encourage in here
<popey> given that feature can be uninstalled / disabled
<ali1234> if the distro i'm using has a stated goal of putting disproportionate amounts of work into software that i don't use, and also *still* can't make it work, why would i want to continue to use it?
<Adriannom> popey, that's not right no, it's one of many things i don't like about unity that can't be fixed
<ali1234> also, the problem as stated doesn't just affect web apps
<popey> ok, fair enough Adriannom
<popey> i only saw you state webapps issues.. carry on
<ali1234> it affects everything under unity
<Adriannom> and xcfe was annoying me, and there are no other options
<Adriannom> popey, ya, partial context :P
<popey> just depressing that's all
<ali1234> anyway nothing wrong with looking at different distros. i concluded all the others were even worse though, that's why i'm still here
<popey> no, nothing wrong with shopping around, of course
<popey> just wanted to make sure there wasn't some fixable thing
<popey> e.g. the nvidia issue earlier might have led some to switch distro
<ali1234> what issue was that?
<Adriannom> if you can fix ubuntu to only release stable things that would be what is needed ;o
<popey> this morning Adriannom had a problem with the wrong nvidia driver being loaded
<ali1234> ah ok
<Adriannom> nah that stuff is basic linux troubles
<popey> yeah, but some people go "ooh, black screen, switch distro time"
<ali1234> yeah, design flaws are much worse problem
<popey> but anyway, this is not that âº
<ali1234> clearly not even the most insane UX team would design a system to intentionally show nothing but a black screen forever
<ali1234> you'll never see me suggesting distro switch for a legit bug like that :)
<popey> just all the other cases ;)
<popey> i kid
<Adriannom> i'm actually really fond of ubuntu, but i think it's more that kind of fondness you have for someone you don't love anymore after they started drinking and beating the kids...
<ali1234> first you have to fully understand the problem
<Adriannom> i.e. just a memory
<ali1234> if you found the bug cause and then the distro refused to fix it, i would advocate changing distro
<ali1234> but that's a different problem
<ali1234> Adriannom: LOL
<ali1234> anyway i think your best thing to use right now is gnome fallback
<Adriannom> yeah i was thinking the same
<ali1234> then switch to consort if nobody starts maintaining gnome-panel
<Adriannom> the drink problem might go away
<ali1234> (consort is fork of gnome-panel and some other bits)
<ali1234> this is what i'm going to do anyway
<Adriannom> thanks for the help :)
<popey> ali1234: someone has already stepped up to maintain gnome-panel
<Adriannom> \o/
<ali1234> popey: oh? who was it?
<ali1234> where's the announcement?
<popey> http://jonathancarter.org/2013/02/05/gnome-panel-is-alive/
<Adriannom> omg, it's been a while gnome 2, i forgot how happy you make me
<ali1234> for best experience install human-theme, and use gnome-tweak-tool to apply it. and use radiance for gtk theme
<dwatkins> was the switch to Unity necessary because of the Ubuntu Phone, or are they unrelated?
<davmor2> dwatkins: the switch to unity was to provide one desktop ui for all form factors
<dwatkins> davmor2: makes sense
<Laney> man aren't crumpets great
<Adriannom> maybe we should also have the same vehicle for every person who needs to go somewhere
<Adriannom> people's requirements can't possibly be that different
<popey> Laney: yes, when just crispy enough, and slathered in butter
 * Laney put saint agur on one of these :O
<popey> nom
<brobostigon> anyone use a vpn here, on an android mobile, and can give me some indication of how much extra overhead, specfically battery drain for example, compared to without?
<einonm> brobostigon: I've used VPN on android before. Not for long enough to notice a difference in the battery though. It shouldn't change much - as VPN is just ethernet packets with an extra wrapper, I think.
<dwatkins> I guess the question is whether the VPN is kept alive with some kind of periodic ping packets
<brobostigon> einonm: also, there is the extra encryption and decryption within the process also.
<redtape-renegade> Morning .. Afternoon whatever .
<einonm> brobostigon: sure. I don't know how that's implemented, but I can't see that making a huge difference, especially if it uses the kernel crypto to perform the work
<brobostigon> einonm: i would tend to agree, yes. l2tp does the tunnelling part, and ipsec runs inside that, to do the encryption inside that tunnel.
<einonm> The biggest effect I would guess would be shoving the extra bytes over 3G
<brobostigon> good point, or in the case of my tablet wifi or bluetooth.
<popey> You're sending _all_ traffic over a vpn?
<brobostigon> no, only when needed.
<einonm> brobostigon: can you measure the battery drain caused by wifi or bluetooth currently on your tablet?
<brobostigon> einonm: the battery meters do seem to show data on battery use of those facilities.
<einonm> is it significant?
<brobostigon> bluetooth alittle, wifi fairly tiny.
<einonm> so you're probably talking a very small percentage of that, at most, as a cost of using VPN
<brobostigon> wifi is something like 4/5%, bluetooth about double that.
<brobostigon> i would tend to agree, even a few percent ontop of any of those, isnt really that significant.
<einonm> looking at a few random numbers on google, 80 bytes per packet is possibly worst case scenario for a VPN packet...so far an MTU of 1500, thats ~5% more for a crude estimate
<einonm> s/far/for
<brobostigon> ~5% extra isnt huge.
<einonm> 5% of 5% of you battery
<einonm> ..your..
<dwatkins> the screen is usually the biggest battery hog
<brobostigon> definatly.
<dwatkins> turning the brightness down can help a lot, obv.
<brobostigon> certainly.
<Azelphur> Is there any way to get in contact with the edimax people?
<Azelphur> I broke it already. :(
<brobostigon> :(
<popey> brobostigon: what you using bluetooth for?
<brobostigon> popey: tethering to my mobile, when no other option.
<popey> turn it off at other times?
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> i was just curious about the vpn, i have solved all other battery problems.
<andylockran> howdy
<brobostigon> afternoonings andylockran
<andylockran> bro: how goes things?
<brobostigon> andylockran: not bad overall, and you?
<andylockran> yeah, good thansk
<andylockran> busy busy
<brobostigon> so abit of :) and abit of :(
<andylockran> yup :)
<andylockran> :Z
<brobostigon> :)
 * Azelphur sends this off to edimax support http://pastebin.com/bRDHkuVX
<Azelphur> I dun broked it :<
<dwatkins> edimax as in the wifi adapter people, Azelphur?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> this is for an IP camera
<dwatkins> I have the little dongle loads of people are using on the Raspberry Pi
<dwatkins> hh
<dwatkins> ahh even
<Azelphur> http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/20236442/Edimax-51345-IP-Camera-USB-adapter-Bundle/Product.html I bought this
<Azelphur> on the camera side, the firmware is broke, on the play.com side, they didn't send me the wifi adapters. haha
<dwatkins> I'm guessing a full reset doesn't help.
<Azelphur> nah, it's obviously a bug in the firmware that crept in at some point.
<dwatkins> they're pictured with it, though
<Azelphur> yea xD
<dwatkins> I see
<Azelphur> now the question is, what do I need to feed this page to tell it to connect to wifi, considering the wifi page is broke xD
<dwatkins> you should be able to manually reconstruct the form
<Azelphur> indeed
<dwatkins> chrome's dev tools might be useful, or firebug
<Azelphur> yea, that's what I've been doing
<Azelphur> I'm gonna try IE first in virtualbox before reconstructing the form, though
<dwatkins> good plan, they may only have tested there ;)
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> wow, 14 minutes to reply from a developer at edimax
<Azelphur> kickass support right there.
<brobostigon> wow, cool.
<mungbean> anyone know about the windows terminal services vulnerability from 2012 ? does it bypass terminal services completely and hence not log any security log messages?
<davmor2> mungbean: you know you're asking that on an Ubuntu channel right ;)
<mungbean> yeah. my favourite place to ask. i don't know any windows security channel - is there one?
<einonm> mungbean: try #oxymorons? :p
<davmor2> mungbean: google will tell you I'm sure
<davmor2> mungbean: I somehow doubt it though
<einonm> mungbean: you could try cve.mitre.org if you know what you're looking for
<einonm> mungbean: bingo? CVE-2012-0152
<mungbean> \o/ i was just looking at that page :D
<mungbean> http://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2012-0002
<einonm> there are so many...
<mungbean> says that authentication is not req'd
<mungbean> hence nothing would appear in the log
<Azelphur> Hmm, TalkTalk engineer was supposed to come out on the 5th, no engineer came out, but apparently they are connecting me today. :S
<Azelphur> they said he only comes out if you don't have a BT master socket, I don't think I have one, all I have is the normal flat wall faceplates, rather than the bigger box for the master socket
<redtape-renegade> Wow, just tried gPodder for the 1st time in months .. Downloading 8Gb's of podcasts .. I just wonder if it's worth it ? I went with the several gPodder recomm'dations .. but more FLOSS stuff is required on my system, no doubt.
 * MartijnVdS downloads podcasts directly on his phone now
<popey> MartijnVdS: what app?
<MartijnVdS> popey: beyondpod
<popey> ta
<MartijnVdS> it takes some getting used to (UX is not the best), but it works
 * redtape-renegade isn't going with mobiles until Å°buntu-phone is federated .
<Azelphur> lol, I think I got a ridiculous deal on this camera
<redtape-renegade> go on ...
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: do tell :)
<Azelphur> Â£40 for edimax IC-7000PTn v2, wireless n PTZ camera
<redtape-renegade> What MPixel ?
<Azelphur> and then they gave me Â£10 off because the bundled wireless n usb adapters where missing
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: is that one of those that AlanBell has?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: possibly
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: they're â¬150 here.. what did you pay
<Azelphur> redtape-renegade: 1.3
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: Â£30
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: nice deal :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I think I nabbed the last one :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Tenvis-Wireless-WIFI-IP-Camera-WebCam-JPT3815W-WHITE-UK-seller-/261156882865?pt=UK_CCTV&hash=item3cce29c9b1#ht_3139wt_1141
<Azelphur> nice
<redtape-renegade> How do I search my bookmarks in chromium ?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: only VGA though
<Azelphur> yea, not as good resolution
<popey> chrome://bookmarks
<popey> go there
<redtape-renegade> thanx.
<Azelphur> is that night vision I see around the lens, though?
<Azelphur> it is, oO
<Azelphur> so less resolution, but has night vision.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: lots of those IP cams have IR vision
<Azelphur> yea, mine doesn't
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and I think there's at least one custom firmware project
<Azelphur> for that specific camera?
<Azelphur> the edimaxes are nice, they are all GPL
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Wireless-IP-WIFI-Network-Security-Camera-Pan-Tilt-Webcam-Night-Vision-CCTV-11-IR-/280966425012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item8712cf05ef#ht_6720wt_1141
<Azelphur> o.O
<ali1234> "bt master socket" just means "bt socket"
<ali1234> almost nobody has the new integrated filter socket
<ali1234> they don't do anything anyway
<Azelphur> I like how the product types don't match up to the specs below
<Azelphur> ali1234: ah, so if I have BT sockets then I'm all good to go
<ali1234> yes they don't need to access your property if it's already wired to BT exchange
<ali1234> they've probably already done it
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> then yea, why the 3 month wait? XD
<ali1234> because they still have to send an engineer to muck with the green box on the end of the road
<Azelphur> ah I see
<Azelphur> so he just turned up without me knowing, I guess
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> they don't knock on yur door and say "i've done it!
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> then that just leaves the "it don't work" problem
<ali1234> power off all hardware for 5 minutes and try again
<Azelphur> I don't get a dialtone on a phone even
<ali1234> then again it's talktalk, so they've probably wired your telephone to 240V or something
<Azelphur> lmao
<Azelphur> unplugged everything, in 5 minutes I'll go on a roam with the phone and see if any of the sockets in the flat work
<ali1234> it wont if you don get dialtone
<Azelphur> yea, I got complete silence
<Azelphur> and yea, it doesn't get a dialtone anywhere in the house
<MartijnVdS>  Yeah! http://dftba.com/product/14z/Everything-Is-Dead-T-Shirt
<mgdm> the sodding update manager is coming back on the hour every hour
<mgdm> any way to kill it?
<mgdm> Hmm, there's a likely-looking gconf key
<Azelphur> Anyone here know their way around zoneminder? I have my camera hooked up to it, but when I view the monitor ZMC jumps to 100% CPU, and I get about 0.1 fps with constant dropouts
<AlanBell> Azelphur: nope, but I am interested in it
<AlanBell> I have a couple of the cheap PT cameras
<AlanBell> want to do cleverer things with them
<Azelphur> AlanBell: seems like we are on the same page
<Azelphur> as I say I have mine running in zoneminder, but at like 0.1 fps
<Azelphur> :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: get a synology nas with surveillance station on it;)
<Azelphur> haha
<AlanBell> I am currently using the built in software on the one at the door to email me photos of people approaching the house, it is pretty cool
<AlanBell> I spot deliveries and stuff being left on the step so I can pop home and get it
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: spotted anyone "suspicous" yet?
<AlanBell> yeah, but he lives here
<Azelphur> AlanBell: my delivery guys NEVER leave stuff on the doorstep o.O
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ...
<MartijnVdS> music time! :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbn10J_11f8
<AlanBell> never gonna give you up
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: no, Nerina Pallot :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'll be driving from Harwich to Cornwall to see her in May
<MartijnVdS> (she's playing at Minack Theatre, Porthcurno)
<AlanBell> very nice
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'll be in the area (driving..) on May 12
<redtape-renegade> "I spot deliveries and stuff being left on the step so I can pop home and get it" redtape- wonders why there isn't a little house for the mail in the garden ??
<daftykins> stuff requires signatures
<daftykins> redtape-renegade: i phoned up to pay for Gas in my new house today, the call centre was on the Isle of Man O_O
<redtape-renegade> daftykins: Did she tell you a 'tail' or did she sound proper manx ?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: So you need a robot with a screen (that you can project your own head on), a camera (so you can see what it would "see") and a "hand" (so it can make a signature)
<Azelphur> don't you hate it when you sign up to a forum, and there's a question you know the answer to
<Azelphur> and they won't let you reply because you're a first time user.
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: It's called the neighbour (who worx nights :) )
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: nah, robots > neighbors
<daftykins> redtape-renegade: i don't really know the accent over there tbh, this guy sounded a tiny bit welsh :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: so "Welshish"
<daftykins> if you want to use a different word, you may
<daftykins> i think what i typed conveyed it well enough? :P
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: but my word is funnier to say :)
<daftykins> whatever you say sir
 * MartijnVdS thinks so anyway
<MartijnVdS> :|
<Azelphur> yep, this is why I hate forums. http://www.zoneminder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=20790&p=79054#p79054
<daftykins> Azelphur: blech
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: can't you post it in your own website, then link to it?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nope, can't post links at all.
<popey> Azelphur: too many words... "don't you hate forums?" - "yes."
<Azelphur> haha
 * MartijnVdS Zzz
<daftykins> what about domains with spaces?
<Azelphur> It's not so bad when they work, but all this crap the admins seem to do to plainly piss off the actual users is annoying
<daftykins> or does that just invite a ban?
<Azelphur> daftykins: god knows, maybe I'll try working around it.
<daftykins> i find forums a joke 100% of the time
<bigcalm> Evening peeps :)
<daftykins> hai o/
<bigcalm> To this day I can't help but read 'hai' as 'yes' in Japanese
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: http://www.gizmag.com/rethink-robotics-baxter-industrial-robot/24183/ .. but it may be sometime before www.bol.com offers them ($16,000).
<daftykins> bigcalm: ^_^
<daftykins> it works both ways!
<bigcalm> Yes!
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> i do like the language
<daftykins> i'd love to learn it if it were more useful around the world
<daftykins> the kanji would be a challenge though i think
<redtape-renegade> depends where you wanna work, surely.
<ali1234> robots will be everywhere within 10 years
<ali1234> by everywhere i mean walking around on the streets
<ali1234> not just in factories
<popey> as you typed that I looked up and there was an advert for Honda robot lawn mower
<daftykins> Azelphur: net conn sorted yet?
<Azelphur> daftykins: nope
<daftykins> i've just ordered a BT VDSL HG612 off ebay :D
<Azelphur> fun
<daftykins> guy i know that got VDSL on Monday still has no router
<Azelphur> xD
<daftykins> so i'm gonna get that for his use first, then my use after :>
<daftykins> they can be nicely modded to show tooooooonnes of stats :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<redtape-renegade> daftykins: Is there any way that you can have, say, two desktop hooked up to one monitor via VGA and flick a switch (on some box ?) that switches between computers to have two O/S's on one monitor at different times ??
<redtape-renegade> **desktops
<popey> yes
<daftykins> yeah it's a KVM
<popey> it's called a KVM switch
<redtape-renegade> oh yes, I forgot .. thanx.
<daftykins> but i'm still pretty certain you're out of luck on going VGA -> displayport
<redtape-renegade> yes, I've over-written that disappointment.
<ali1234> just finished synergy -> bus mouse hardware emulator code...
<ali1234> fun fact: atari and amiga joysticks are compatible but the mice have a slightly different pin assignment for no obvious reason
<daftykins> probably the standard approach of making sure you buy a given set of accessories
<daftykins> to lock in those that aren't willing to fiddle
<ali1234> well, except that amiga and atari both sold with a mouse anyway
<redtape-renegade> I'm at the stage where  want to d-load youube videos.. Can someone take a second t run through the commands of how to download " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYboYmTYoaI&feature=youtube_gdata"  as I've tried askubuntu with no luck ...
<redtape-renegade> **to run through ..
<ali1234> redtape-renegade: you install video download helper in firefox and that's it
<daftykins> ali1234: sure but things break.
<redtape-renegade> I'm using chromium.
<ali1234> yeah. i never saw anyone selling official commodore mice tho... so i dunno
<ali1234> they're both obvious rip-offs of microsoft bus mouse anyway, which has same connector and yet another different pin mapping
<redtape-renegade> Do you want me to install firefox too, is that easier ?
<daftykins> ff will probably run flash content better on that netbook of yours
<redtape-renegade> ok
<redtape-renegade> I can't stop saying the word Awesome today after hearing a posh guy with a lisp on youtube saying it... but he says " Authome" which is now in my vocab.  ..... damn crumpet eating Sloaneys !!
<popey> hey Laney, redtape-renegade is calling you a crumpet eating sloaney!
<popey> with your cheese!
<daftykins> XD
 * bigcalm wants crumpets
<daftykins> i can't stand the 'fashion' of saying 'awesome' to everything that even my friends have adopted, i avoid using it :P
<daftykins> and yesh such petty things are of concern to me :)
<redtape-renegade> yeah, the rich  : .. they eat the same stodge just rich stodge, that the only difference to me .
<redtape-renegade> Oh dear 'm going errano-ly off topic again.      damn that cerebral-ness !!
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> does anyone still actively use Bitfolk in here?
<shauno> yup
<daftykins> i'm looking at them and bytemark to get a VPS for hosting a few sites
<daftykins> are they good in your experience?
<daftykins> bytemark seem impressive specs wise, especially their newer service: http://bigv.io/
<diplo> Im with bitfolk as well
<diplo> Service is great, don't use it enough for anything else to say anymore
<daftykins> thanks
<shauno> never had an issue with bitfolk.  they've been great every time I've needed to talk to them
<shauno> not convinced they're so competitively priced, but they've given me no reason to even consider moving
<daftykins> yeah, indeedy. thanks!
<daftykins> i guess they're a good choice if you know exactly what you're doing
<AlanBell> !info libsphinxclient-dev
<lubotu3> libsphinxclient-dev (source: sphinxsearch): Fast standalone full-text SQL search engine - Client library. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.0.4-1.1ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 18 kB, installed size 76 kB
<andylockran> wow
<andylockran> that's the third time that's come up today :)
<daftykins> that lib?
<andylockran> +1 to the bitfolk recommendation
<daftykins> oic
<andylockran> and yeah, the libsphinxclient-dev lib
<AlanBell> only available in 12.10
<daftykins> i think i'm more leaning toward: http://bigv.io/ given the ownies hardware spec :D
<popey> also +1 to bitfolk here
<andylockran> recommended sphinx to a developer this morning, and then had an interviewee mention it this afternoon
<AlanBell> just pondering upgrading a server or running sphinx on a different server
<popey> they messed up the pricing of bigv
<daftykins> popey: too low so they'll under-provision?
<andylockran> I just love bitfolk increasing what they offer me every now and again
<popey> no, they let people trial it then suddenly started charging them
<andylockran> I started out with a 4GB disk & 128M RAM
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> that doesn't really worry me
<andylockran> I now have a lot more disk
<andylockran> and double the RAM
<popey> yeah, the regular upgrade on bitfolk are nice
<andylockran> and I've never changed my standing orde
<andylockran> yeah; bitfolk is recommended
<popey> mine's gone up to 1GB RAM and 30GB disk space!
<popey> started out much lower
<andylockran> I may have to pay for that upgrade soon
<andylockran> also got given a second IP free as it would make life easier for a configuration I was testing
<andylockran> & ipv6 support out the box :)
<daftykins> that sounds good, i'd be looking at hosting 3+ websites, two of which may have IMAP mailboxes
<popey> i should look at ipv6 sometime
<daftykins> me too, i don't even know if my ISP supports it yet
<andylockran> I looked at it about 2 years ago, set it up and had it working nice
<andylockran> but then as my ISP at home and work didn't support it, and i'd have to route everything over a tunnel; I just gave up.
<daftykins> yeah i cba to try the tunneling
<andylockran> Though most of my websites are listening on v6 + v4 :)
<daftykins> as easy as i know it is
<andylockran> I just cba doing something that 99% of people wouldn't attempt
<andylockran> I don't mind appealing to the geeky 1% by having my sites available
<andylockran> I thought it was important to work out how to network a cluster of servers that are currently NAT'd - and the effect that ipv6 would have on that
<popey> bedlington
<andylockran> ta ra popey
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-08
<redtape-renegade> Great gPodder has finished d-loading all of the podcast backlog .. Right, I've got FLOSS weekly, Going Linux, or Ubuntu UK LoCo team podcast; which one should I listen to first ?? .
<redtape-renegade> & if you say the Ubuntu podcast plz give me hint as to which pod.number is a goodie ..
 * redtape-renegade rolls a rather 12 sided dice ..                                                                             & a rollie :)
<daftykins> you sir have lots of vices
<redtape-renegade> only one matey, but I heard if you smoke only 20 rollie.s a day your chances of the big 'c' only go up by 8%  ( british lung foundation ).
<redtape-renegade> total loss = 7.89 per week.
<redtape-renegade> Manx pounds obviously ..
<daftykins> ;)
 * redtape-renegade wishes the term GMP was more prolific and not just on xe.com .. but there you go.
<redtape-renegade> BTW daftykins TPB_AFK comes out at 5pm today :)  :)  :)  .. may not be your thing .. but I did crowdfund the project..
<daftykins> what's that? if it's pirate bay related nah i don't use that
<redtape-renegade> k .. no prob.s  .. just a kind of contemporary cyber-punk film/doc.  but I understand.
<daftykins> oic a doc
<daftykins> interesting
<redtape-renegade> it is .. but I'm curious at your curiosity ..
<daftykins> ja i assumed incorrectly it was something else
<redtape-renegade> most people do ..                          (trinity quote ;) )
<daftykins> definitely curious about those guys history
<daftykins> ^_^
<redtape-renegade> I had a day dream once that they would do a kck.st/ about buying Sealand for the 30 million they originally asked for .. but that says more about my preocupation about crowdfunding and it's limits about if someone will eventually go completely cyber-punk and crowdfund with intl. bit-coins; more than anything else.
<redtape-renegade> I would act on that last remark. jus for the lateness..
<redtape-renegade> **I wouldn't ... (!!)
<daftykins> ^_^
<redtape-renegade> Wow strawberry fields at 1pm .. http://2fm.rte.ie/ click on 'listen' .. if you dare ...
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/gallery/J7sv8
<daftykins> ^very interesting
<redtape-renegade> Yeah  have seen that before on my odysseys .. Isn't it the basis for these-type films? www.imdb.com/title/tt1130884/  [note this is irrelevant to our geography's, per say ].
<daftykins> purrhaps
<redtape-renegade> I could have good to central courts today to support a hearing , but I decided Lubuntu was more interesting :)
<daftykins> was it a worthy cause?
<shauno> there's a couple of islands like that in lake michigan.  abandoned settlements
<redtape-renegade> Not really . It was the difference between manx law and EU law kinda case .. fascinating for the anal, but that's about it. Not me.
<daftykins> mmm
<redtape-renegade> daftykins: Was that a bookmark or did you source if from a particular website (where ?) ???
<daftykins> sometimes people link to imgur, then i look at the group of images on the upper right that are... recent or popular uploads, i don't know which
<daftykins> most people find them via time-wasting websites such as reddit i think
<redtape-renegade> yeah, thought as much.
<daftykins> but i personally can't stand those
<daftykins> :>
<redtape-renegade> reddit (!) .. caused harry-carry from the founder didn't it ?                 Figures.
<shauno> he wasn't a founder, and it wasn't a cause.  just to be picky
<redtape-renegade> Sometime when I quit the 'Catfish' icon on my desktop - changes to the actual icon of a golden cat when I am in shuting down mode .. Is that a bug , or what .. I kinda grew fond of the cat - fella for the few milliseconds he made an appearance, wonder where  can get him back again ??
<ali1234> it happens when gnome-settings-daemon shuts down
<redtape-renegade> **... where I can get ...
<ali1234> all themes revert to defaults
<redtape-renegade> oh ok ..
<ali1234> i dunno what "catfish" means
<redtape-renegade> so can I change the icon, or what .. as it's on the system already ??
<redtape-renegade> it's a basic search engine, also a fish.
<redtape-renegade> Dropbox linx doesn't show up in PCManFM .. is that common ..
<redtape-renegade> ** ... ??
<ali1234> ah you're using LXDE or something?
<ali1234> in that case, i have no idea
<redtape-renegade> ali1234: Got it working now .. askubuntu is really good ! Here's catfish ::: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/catfish%20selection%20Lubuntu.png
<redtape-renegade> ali1234: Did you mention commodore before ?? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/1001_Things_to_do_with_your_Commodore_64.pdf
<redtape-renegade> !off topic watch .. /me facepalms .
<lubotu3> redtape-renegade: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<redtape-renegade> !catfish
<redtape-renegade> daftykins: Not sure if you are still up , but this screenshot of my wallpaper perfectly encapsulates the sentiment of the users of #ubuntu-uk, at least to me.. good luck/night mate :::: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Never%20get%20outta%20the%20boat-%20screen%20shot%20Lubuntu%20Feb2013.pdf
<popey> Morning
<jpds> popey: Moin.
<jennie> how do I accelerate mouse in ubuntu , the default settings are not allowing me accelerate mouse. I am using 12.10
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :-D
 * Laney is reminded about findus crispy pancakes
<Laney> used to love those
<kvarley> popey: Did you see the Raspberry Pi camera module post on their site the other day? Thought you might be interested, I know you run webcams as cctv. :)
<kvarley> Lame, I bought CS:Source yesterday and now it's 75% off on steam. Nooooooo.
<AlanBell> andylockran: did you get sphinx working from PHP at all?
<kvarley> Is there some sort of indicator that would let me store bookmarks/shortcuts to apps for Unity?
<popey> kvarley: an app launcher?
<kvarley> popey: Yeah, but with my own shortcuts if that makes sense? I basically want some sort of app drawer so I can add all my git repositories to it. At the moment I'm opening git-cola and everytime browsing to where my git repos are, I'd like a shortcut for each repository.
<hawkal> I read that adduser is perl script that uses useradd. Does anyone know where I could find an example of the standard command executed by adduser to useradd?
<hawkal> When I create a user using useradd something breaks and I cant switch to that user
<popey> hawkal: why use useradd and not adduser?
<hawkal> I'm trying to use it in a long command but adduser breaks out of the proccess
<hawkal> useradd doesn't but it doesn't create the user properly unless I'm missing something.
<jennie> what is steam channel name for linux please tell
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> jennie: #ubuntu-steam
<jennie> thanks
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> hiya
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<bigcalm> I'm not seeing a help item for --nocopyright in get_iplayer. Anybody know what it does or if it does anything?
<bigcalm> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<popey>         nocopyright     => [ 1, "nocopyright!", 'Display', '--nocopyright', "Don't display copyright header"],
<popey> i.e. the bit you see when you start get_iplayer
 * popey notes it's perl, so bigcalm could have grepped the source for nocopyright âº
<bigcalm> popey: it's early and sometimes somebody know without digging. Thanks though ;)
<popey> lol digging
<xnox> jay as shipped in precise does not have '-z' flag.
<bigcalm> Why rtfm when you can just ask on irc?
 * xnox is confused by xkcd.
<andylockran> AlanBell: I didn't personally, but the dev team I was working with did.
<andylockran> AlanBell: do you want me to link you up with someone for (free) advice?
<Laney> xnox: http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
<AlanBell> that would be excellent andylockran, I can't find the PHP extension for it at the moment
<xnox> Laney: i should have totally got the JayZ refference *jeez* But I didn't know that reg.exp. quote was by Jamie Zawinski
<Laney> you live, you learn
 * Laney now wants to listen to alanis
 * Laney does so
 * bigcalm <3 today's xkcd
<Laney> jagged little pill ofc
<bigcalm> 1 week to new workstation delivery. Hammering f5 on the order progress page hasn't sped things up :(
<directhex> i want a new gaming pc
<directhex> also, i'd like to get a new laptop for the wife, her netbook is ridiculously lame
<bigcalm> directhex: that's what my workstation is
<directhex> i have no money /o\
<bigcalm> Work's paying \o/
<directhex> work paid for this x230
<directhex> and i could probably get a T430 and X1 Carbon out of them
<popey> directhex: do you have an amazon wishlist?
<popey> (you should)
<directhex> although the stupid IT manager mandates intel graphics only
<bigcalm> Eugh
<directhex> i.e. no bitchin' geforce on company money
<directhex> something about supporting optimus being full of bees
<bigcalm> My boss wanted me to have a good graphics card so that I could play games in my down time - as well as running 3 monitors from 1 card
<directhex> you can do that with modern intel
<directhex> tbh intel 4000 is better than a low end radeon, even in windows
<bigcalm> GeForce GTX 660 - any good?
<directhex> yes
<directhex> excellent
<bigcalm> Oh good :)
<directhex> wife has one in her pc
<directhex> after her 6970 burned out
<andylockran> AlanBell: http://sphinxsearch.com/wiki/doku.php?id=php_api_docs is what I've been pointed at by my old employers team
<AlanBell> thanks andylockran
<AlanBell> I think the crucial sphinxapi.php is in the sphinx source, but not the package for ubuntu
<andylockran> ah, ok
<andylockran> AlanBell: see private msg
 * popey cuddles his little GeForce GTX 460
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: you missed some great banter at the LUG
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah I was working till just gone 22:00 though :(
<bigcalm> davmor2: we were there until gone 11pm. Tsk :P
<davmor2> by the time I'd got myself together got up there it would of been time to turn around and walk back :P
<BigRedS> Whoop! I have an SSD now!
<Adriannom> hi.  using 12.10 with gnome-fallback.  everything is good except...  i've just added a second admin user, changed uid and gid, then tried to login.  i get a desktop, but no gnome-panel.  i can ctrl-alt-t for terminal and load gnome-panel manually.  gnome-panel loads fine on my original account.  this is a formatted drive, so there were no remnants of config files etc.  any ideas?
<Adriannom> BigRedS, me too, just setting up ubuntu on it.  faaast :)
<einonm> Adriannom: no home directory for the new user? or, the home directory was created with the original permissions
<Adriannom> einonm, home dir there, had original perms but i did chmod/chgrp -R
<Adriannom> errr
<Adriannom> chown/chgrp
<einonm> ok :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry chaps - out tinternet is a bit flaky this morning...
<Adriannom> i think maybe i forgot to chgrp before logging in, then logged out, chgrp, then login again
<Adriannom> could that be an issue?
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\our
 * dwatkins hands TheOpenSourcerer a wimi
<BigRedS> Adriannom: I've got to work out the right dd incantation to make windows work first, I think...
<einonm> Adriannom: I'd just delete the account and create a new one with the correct IDs first time
<Adriannom> BigRedS, gl :)
<Adriannom> einonm, ok will do
<Whoop> BigRedS: thanks for the heads up
<BigRedS> Whoop: haha! Bad choice of nick! :)
<bigcalm> Haha
<Azelphur> o.O, there's a dead cat right outside my house
 * AlanBell grumbles at the bouncieness of the internetz
<bigcalm> AlanBell: tether your phone while it's uppity
<Laney> Azelphur: dinner?
<AlanBell> Azelphur: you could make a lasagne from that
<Azelphur> lol
<bigcalm> Heh
<Adriannom> einonm, nope, same problem
<mungbean> that reminds me of the joke about the guy who is driving along and a cat dashes across the road
<Adriannom> what a catastrophe
<BigRedS> don't catastrophie jokes normally involve cats winning things?
<mungbean> and he stops the car and sees a cat by the side of the road twitching and fitting, so he does the humane thing and clubs it over the head to put it outof its misery
<einonm> Adriannom: out of interest, what Ids are you using? I remember something in the back of my head about them being less than, or more than 1000 is bad with ubuntu...? Anyone?
<Adriannom> einonm, from 1001 to 1002
<BigRedS> einonm: user accounts are > 1000 in Debian/Ubuntu generallty
<Adriannom> einonm, i mean, i changed it from 1001
<mungbean> then a lady rushes out of the house and says, the man just got out of the car and beat my cat to death who was merrily twiching while having a dream in the sunshine and hadn't moved all day. then the other cat strolls past unharmed
<einonm> ah, that's right...swapping accounts between Fedora and Debian caused issues. Not your problem, Adriannom
<mungbean> not sure if urban myth, joke, or true story
<Adriannom> i think it was that first one mungbean ;)
<directhex> gdm hides UIDs under 1000
<dwatkins> "The silence is broken by wild boars or magpies in the sky..." - pigs really do fly in South Korea!
<directhex> and adduser starts at 1000 for accounts that are not added with the --system flag
<BigRedS> yeah, lots of things assume that uid 1000 cutoff
<Adriannom> ok so i guess i'll try creating the account without changing the ids
<directhex> see /etc/adduser.conf
<einonm> that's logical
<Adriannom> "GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.Accounts.Error.Failed: running '/usr/sbin/userdel' failed: /usr/sbin/userdel returned an error (12): userdel: user adrian is currently logged in" even though i'm not logged in
<Adriannom> did that last time too
<directhex> Adriannom, recycled uid?
<Adriannom> directhex, what do you mean?
<directhex> things can get Interesting(tm) if the same uid is used on multiple accounts
<dwatkins> I didn't think that was possible unless you manually edit /etc/passwd
<dwatkins> certainly sounds like a Bad Idea.
<Adriannom> directhex, fresh install.  only other account is the original from install
<popey> why are you changing the ids?
<Adriannom> to match my files on a different hd and my nas
<Adriannom> ok, so it's nothing to do with changing ids.  12.10, gnome fallback.  if i create a new account and login to it, gnome-panel doesn't load
<einonm> Adriannom: just create two accounts (1001 and 1002), then delete the first?
<Adriannom> einonm, ah, good idea
<Adriannom> will do, as soon as i fix gnome :P
<dwatkins> I use UID 1000 on all my machines at home and my NAS.
<dwatkins> not that NFS's security is particularly stringent ;)
<Adriannom> can't really remember why i ended up as 1002
<Adriannom> maybe my nas liked it
<Adriannom> anyone got any ideas?
<Adriannom> i like having more than just a desktop ;(
<dwatkins> you want more?!?! </Dickens>
<Adriannom> i might go as far as to say i NEED more
<dwatkins> don't we all? ;)
<Adriannom> you already have more, damn you
<andylockran> :)
<dwatkins> yes, I do
<dwatkins> I still want more, gonna buy a NAS soon.
<Adriannom> ;o
<dwatkins> 9 TB should suffice for a while.
<solarcloud> Hi there .. what happened at 3am this morning , then hey ??
<mungbean> just received a redhat email that mentioned fedora
<mungbean> never seen that before
<mungbean> usually its jboss and corporate munge
<mungbean> paradigm shifts and open hybrid cloud solutions
<daubers> Afternoon
<bigcalm> Erk, it's gone 12pm
<bigcalm> Hi daubers
 * daubers is having a day doing things he enjoys
<daubers> Was told to by the therapist :)
<redtape-renegade> therapist ? Anyway last night before the netsplit  got quite far with Lubuntu ..
<bigcalm> daubers: it's always to enjoy the things you do :)
<redtape-renegade> I made this screenshot of my system . I thnk the screenshot  perfectly illustrates the clientele that exists in this #channel .. :: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Never%20get%20outta%20the%20boat-%20screen%20shot%20Lubuntu%20Feb2013.pdf   :D
<bigcalm> Who saves a screenshot as a PDF?
<redtape-renegade> hey, I'd frame it if I knew of a service, mate.
<bigcalm> It makes it 2.8MB
<bigcalm> o.O
<redtape-renegade> oh Ok, point taken :-[
<Adriannom> turned out to fix it i had to login to another window manager, then logout and log back into gnome...  and gnome-panel loads.  weird.
<redtape-renegade> never sen gnome-panel .. What's it look like ?
<redtape-renegade> **seen
<Adriannom> tall, fluffy, with a beak
<bigcalm> Hehe
<Adriannom> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/fallbackac.jpg
<Adriannom> at least that's ubuntu's default look
<redtape-renegade> Adriannom: Yes, I have seen that :: Someone's been listening to too much Radiohead :) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b5/Radiohead.kida.albumart.jpg
<Adriannom> redtape-renegade, what do you mean?
<redtape-renegade> Just being Silly .. it is a similar style of picture, that's all. :)
<davmor2> redtape-renegade: hit the PrtScn button and save the png in drop box, or add it to imgurl, or add it to a u1 folder and then publish and paste the url, or ..................
<Adriannom> redtape-renegade, ohh, so it is, i had to load the screenshot up again to get it ;)
<redtape-renegade> davmor2: Yeah , I had figured that out. I just wanted to stretch my file format boundaries .
<redtape-renegade> although , I've never used u1 yet , so point taken.
<Adriannom> when i delete users it complains that they are logged in when they are not.  usermod also complains and fails for the same reason.  i have 12 lightdm processes running and only 1 user logged in.  i'm sure if i reboot it'll probably be a workaround, but what the hell could be going on?
<Adriannom> brb
<shauno> flashing a 25MB firmware over 9600 baud zmodem.  shoot me :(
 * davmor2 points fingers at shauno and pulls the trigger................BANG!
<davmor2> shauno: look at the bright side there could of been a 0 on the end of that 25 :)
<Adriannom> back
<Adriannom> if i restart the extra lightdm processes go away, and i can modify users that haven't logged in, but as soon as i login and logout again with any of them, the new lightdm process hangs around and i can't modify the user once more
<Adriannom> maybe it's a problem with lightdm itself?
<Laney> OMG radio 4 has gone silent
 * Laney runs to the bunk... oh there it's back
<Laney> "technical problems"
<shauno> don't worry.  the subs don't go nuts until they lose their own comms channel *and* bbc :)
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: Hads-Up :  My brother -in -law has opened a consultancy. He is looking to make it open-source for EU clients. How can he improve his ethical use of software in this field ?  http://www.reviveconsultancy.eu/nieuws/nieuw-kantoor-voorschoten-betrokken/3
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Maybe you could look-in on this QnA ?
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: ***Head-Up ... that was ...
<redtape-renegade> OK Sod that                ... and in Other News .
<redtape-renegade> My local Spar (redtape spits at the floor) .. has started selling Custard made with *Real* fresh custard. :)   :) Today is at least a good day in history .
<redtape-renegade> **made with *Real* fresh cream ,, soz about that. :)
<mungbean> and lasagne made with real horse
<redtape-renegade> Ghehe :D
<redtape-renegade> Doe anyone remember a Danger Mouse episode where the planet was flooded with custard ? redtape-renegade scans for the wiki-entry ..
<redtape-renegade> Yeah released in 2001 on DVD "Danger Mouse Vol. 1: Close Encounters of the Absurd Kind!" First Episode on the DVD-series  it was so popular !! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangermouse#DVD_releases
 * redtape-renegade Adds it to the wishlist ... http://www.amazon.co.uk/registry/wishlist/1KAR1Z9PX355O
<bigcalm> Can't you just watch them all on YouTube?
<bigcalm> I would have thought that it's the kind of thing to make it there
<redtape-renegade> bigcalm: I could but when I'm stick in Bolton because a 3rd uncle or something has popped his clogs (& I 'ave to attens) , they'll be no internet .. therefore no internet .. that's where the DVD come in.
<redtape-renegade> **comes in ..
<redtape-renegade> **..when I'm stuck ..
 * redtape-renegade looks for a proper keyboard..
<redtape-renegade> testing.. testing .. cool .. compaq keyboard .. it never fails !!
<shauno> I knew bolton was stuck in the past, but no internet?
<redtape-renegade> I've got an idea: .. http://goo.gl/do9hH  :D
<directhex> redtape-renegade, i've got that dvd
<directhex> actually it's the wife's
<directhex> but still
<bigcalm> directhex: do you think your littleun would like Trap Door?
<directhex> bigcalm, maybe later
<directhex> bigcalm, problem with a lot of "classic" kids' shows is the pacing is glacial, so kids will lose interest
<bigcalm> directhex: ah, fair enough. If you fancy it, I'll post you my copy for later use
<bigcalm> directhex: lost all of my half-life saves. I suspect a recent update to Steam (all 170 odd mb of it). Heard of this happening to anybody else?
<directhex> bigcalm, i have not. dunno where hl1 saves are kept
<bigcalm> Boss has been quite pleased with SparkleShare so far. I can see it eating space locally and might have to move it to an external drive
<bigcalm> How would I get the client to start when I login?
<bigcalm> Ah, found it :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: in the oddly named startup applications section :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: How odd!
<bigcalm> davmor2: still took time to locate that
<davmor2> bigcalm: on what?
<bigcalm> xubuntu
<davmor2> bigcalm: ah I'm assuming it was in the settings menu in their control center thing
<bigcalm> Applications Menu -> Settings -> Settings Manager
<bigcalm> The confusion is that some of the items in Settings Manager are also listed within the Settings menu
<redtape-renegade> OK then , Ebay question of the day ::: http://goo.gl/H26JC :::  Will it run Ubuntu ?   ... just before I waste a Â£450 present for my dad.
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: windows RT -- unlikely
<MartijnVdS> WinRT = ARM = lock down ALL the things
<directhex> redtape-renegade, no.
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah it is a bit half soaked how they have gone about it
<directhex> redtape-renegade, all ARM devices should be assumed to be locked to only run the OS they ship with, unless proven otherwise on a per-device basis
<dwatkins> I was glad to discover I could put Cyanogenmod on my phone.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I've installed it on my old Nexus One
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: thanks for reminding me, I need to do that too - do you happen to have a link to hand for it?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's the "Passion" device I think
<dwatkins> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> http://download.cyanogenmod.org/?type=stable&device=passion
<MartijnVdS> 7.2.0-final (yes it's an "old" version of android)
<dwatkins> yeah, that's the highest build my HTC 'Ace' Desire HD will run, too
<dwatkins> I think there's a Jelly Bean for one of them, but it'll probably be a bit unstable.
<MartijnVdS> there's a jelly bean build for the N1, but it's not cyanogen (but some other "custom" mod), and they've had to do some magic to port drivers over
<MartijnVdS> and you have to hack the bootloader to change flash partition sizes
<MartijnVdS> which means REAL chance of bricking
<dwatkins> indeed, yes - I vaguely remember reading about as far as the part which mentioned it being potentially dangerous and stopping
<MartijnVdS> I actually tried it.. but it was very unstable (Lots of spontaneous reboots)
<MartijnVdS> so I reflashed with 7.2.0 which works fine for a back-up phone
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins .. I'm putting it on my nook color this week, As I need a V.10 PDF reader for work and I was disappointed when I bought one off ebay and the guy said it was cyanogenmod when it was MIUI instead !
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: there's no PDF reader on it?
<redtape-renegade> not as good as ipad no.
<dwatkins> thanks MartijnVdS, I'll just use CM7.2 ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: np :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it even enabled the FM radion in the N1 :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: which I didn't know was there (because the original firmware can't use it)
<MartijnVdS> radio*
<dwatkins> First, however, I need to compile the application which uses my temperature sensor and throw it in the general direction of a munin pligin
<redtape-renegade> " FM radion ".. Why isn't that the name of radio station ?
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to set my Pi up so it can be connected to the gigantic TV at work and act as a temperature sensor, instead of it showing who is available on the telephone system
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcasting
<redtape-renegade> I'm well aware.
<redtape-renegade> Soooo .. http://imgur.com/gallery/vwaJZ49 Does anyone have an idea what is going to happen in SW VII ????
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: looks like the Falcon won't survive
<dwatkins> The books were written years ago, but Disney will probably make it all unicorns and rainbows.
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: Well the Millennium was some time ago .. sigh.
<redtape-renegade> Although if it's anything like the Tron soundtrack , I will be v. impressed.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Unicorns with light-saber horns?!
<redtape-renegade> Note any mention of light-sabres will get the popey-meister going, So keep it down at the back of the pub, Plz.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yes, and rainbows over yet another Death Star
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins: DeathStar ? Ha ! I will file that under MCWR   [More 'Chicken-Wire' Required]    http://kck.st/14NK7zd
<ali1234> that's awesome
<ali1234> i would love it if they reach the goal
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: 1337 backers
<redtape-renegade> .. no that's 'Athome'
<MartijnVdS> too perfect
<redtape-renegade> Just a way to get pointb on your credit card really. that's all .. you'll only get a refund !
<redtape-renegade> **points.
<redtape-renegade> http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/461687407/kickstarter-open-source-death-star/  @12% total.
<redtape-renegade> Thinking slightly alternatively, What better way is there to increase the traffic to gnut.co.uk (the owner) ??
<redtape-renegade> Wonder what the registration charge was ?
<redtape-renegade> I mean if say your website is about selling crab-apples .. just do a kickstarter with the 'owner' display - setup to advertise your website . you'll 100's of crab-apples from that slightly wearey thing we have in the garden .. at least !!
<redtape-renegade> **you'll sell 100's of ...
<redtape-renegade> ............. Come on Ubuntu-ist what's the biggest product or -non-event- that you can think of that will make some disruption on kickstarter ? Ideas welkome ..
<shauno> the ability to slap people over the internet.
 * redtape-renegade facepalms.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it worked!
<shauno> it's been pondered since the dawn of time.  build it and they'll come :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you just made redtape-renegade slap himself in the face
<MartijnVdS> shauno: which means you HAVE that ability
<shauno> MartijnVdS: that's different.  I'm special.  my mummy told me so
<redtape-renegade> shauno: Do you play baseball too ? v. field of dreams , me thinks.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: haha :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: aww
<shauno> I'm still holding out for an rfc2324-compliant coffee machine, but I'm not sure that'd be a huge seller
<MartijnVdS> at least it's not RFC1149-compliant
<MartijnVdS> or 2549
<redtape-renegade> right, 'cos that would be terrible ;)
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: You wouldn't want bird droppings in your coffee
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I heard IP-enabled fridges are really coming now though
 * redtape-renegade drinks chai -tea (twinings)
<Azelphur> https://twitter.com/MoviesOnVM/status/299921363324518400 :P
<MartijnVdS> shauno: people have been joking about it for ages ("why do we need ipv6? To get your fridge on the net")
<redtape-renegade> opening...
 * AlanBell sends error code 418
<shauno> my fridge I'm less concerned about.  but if my coffee machine could real my calendar, and turn the boiler on when it knows I'll be up for work, that'd be a giant step for mankind
<shauno> read, rather
<redtape-renegade> Azelphur: That's more of a retweet than for a post here .. IMHO .. if-so, what's ya twitter handle ?
 * MartijnVdS guesses: Azelphur
<redtape-renegade> scanning 4 Azelphur.. on twitter ...
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: madness.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJOLwy7un3U
<redtape-renegade> 'madness' ?? Errata : not scanning 4 Azelphur .. on twitter .
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: lol
<shauno> I'd love to be able to tell various appliances to power up x many minutes before the earliest appointment on ical/google calendar.  I have a very erratic shift schedule that makes just turning things on at 5am difficult
<MartijnVdS> shauno: time for a raspberry pi + zwave
<MartijnVdS> ask Azelphur :)
<Azelphur> I was mainly interested in lights
<shauno> so far, the closest I've got is that my bedroom light turns on 5 minutes before my alarm clock goes off.  but that's a very manual process
<Azelphur> and I didn't find anything that meets my budget
<ali1234> budget smudget
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: other solutions exist but aren't as neat (no mesh network support)
<ali1234> all you need is some cheapola AM controlled power sockets
<ali1234> and a AM radio module and an AVR chip
<redtape-renegade> shauno . A mag came through from CPC today who sell Ras.Pi .. if anyone wants a copy of all the stuff they sell under the 'Pi' banner .. give me a generic address , and I'll post it to you ....
<shauno> I have some philips hue lights.  not cheap, but it's all json over http.  very hackable
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I don't need mesh network, this flat is tiny
<Azelphur> ali1234: this is for built into the wall type lights.
<ali1234> you can get AM controlled for those too
<Azelphur> got any links?
<ali1234> www.lmgtfy.com
<Azelphur> forever useful.
<shauno> so far, my crowning achievement is getting xbmc to dim the living room lights when I hit play.  this makes me a happy nerd
<ali1234> i dont have any lights in my cave
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.coco-technology.com/shop/producten/?___store=en
<Azelphur> 18 euros is more about how much I'd be happy to pay per light too ;)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I have AYCT-102 + some ACD-300 and ACD-1000 + ACM-300
<MartijnVdS> the USB bit is a bit expensive, but I think the protocol should be easy enough to reverse-engineer
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: apparently this one works in Linux, AND with all major 433MHz "home control" brands: http://www.rfxcom.com/store/Transceivers/12103
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> maybe that route would be better, then :)
<MartijnVdS> certainly a lot cheaper ;)
<shauno> that's the plus side of my expensive ones.  it's just http, so if I have curl, it's a viable platform
<ali1234> http://www.rapidonline.com/Electrical-Power/Low-Cost-AM-Radio-Modules-122235
<ali1234> cheapest
<ali1234> connect to arduino... universal AM remote controller
<ali1234> also with learning capability (if you program it)
<MartijnVdS> so to the ones I linked.. and you don't have to solder to make those work ;)
<Azelphur> unfortunately my electronics skills are nonexistent :(
<Azelphur> I can actually solder, soldering is something I'm actually reasonably comfortable with
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I like my coco stuff very mcuh
<Azelphur> the issue isn't soldering, the issue is knowing what to solder ;)
<ali1234> that's all you need
<ali1234> the module only has 4 pins
<ali1234> 5v, gnd, data, antenna
<ali1234> all you need to do is determine when to turn on and off the data line
<Azelphur> o.O
<Azelphur> wouldn't 5v be incompatible inside a light switch
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> you don't build that part yourself
<ali1234> you buy it and then build the universal controller you self
<ali1234> since that is the expensive part
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.webrelais.nl/IPIO+KAKU+1+v6.0+config.html
<MartijnVdS> it's in Dutch though..
<brobostigon> woop, pink floyd, bbc4, 10:30, :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> you should fix your arduino
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and a program about albums, 21:00.. with at least a few seconds of Nerina Pallot :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: the controller for lightwave is actually really cheap (Â£40) the light switches are Â£40 a pop which is where the expensive comes in :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that also, :)
<ali1234> the ones i bought were Â£14.99 for a pack of 3 from maplins
<ali1234> including controller which you take apart to look what chip it uses and then get the datasheet so you can mongle it
<brobostigon> an program for android people might like, irssinotifier, tells me when i get highlighted in irssi,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: so we can say your name ANY time and you'll drop by? :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: or i will be told yes. :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: no abuse, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: mmm, ok :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is n interesting idea though.
<shauno> heh, I do something similar on my phone.  but I have it silent
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kiboze
<brobostigon> james parry, ie.
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<brobostigon> i have vaguely heard of, but nothing detailed.
<MartijnVdS> I was too young in the late 80s.. but I've heard of him.. and I've read his website :)
<MartijnVdS> he's obsessed with traffic cones.. or used to be
<brobostigon> ah, interesting obsession.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.kibo.com/photos/
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: is that his site ?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<brobostigon> i see.
<brobostigon> oh dear, last revised, dec 2001.
<brobostigon> nice and simple site though,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: he still updates every year with a christmas story
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: see http://www.kibo.com
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting, i will look.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: certainly somewhat more traditional design.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "more traditional" = "modern in the age of Geocities" ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: well, i wouldnt say that ut, well, similer to the kind of simplistic design i could do.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: have you seen this channel? http://www.youtube.com/user/thebrainscoop
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's COOL :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i havent, i will see.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: what is it about, it doesnt really say much.?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's about the Zoological Museum at The University of Montana.. it's quite new.. but they've been talking about what happens in a "zoological museum" and they've retrieved a dead wolf
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (and are preparing it for their collection)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see, yes, could be interesting.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: also, Emily (who hosts the programs) a great presenter :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, :)
<redtape-renegade> Emily Grass-lie ... she smoked pot as a tweenie I bet !
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<brobostigon> nomnom, franziskaner, :)
<brobostigon> hefe-weizen and chocolate, interesting combination.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.harpoonbrewery.com/beer/98/Chocolate-Stout
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting, tried it?
<MartijnVdS> no, seems to be available in the US Only
<brobostigon> ah, ohwell.
<MartijnVdS> might convince my brothers to brew some of their own thoguh
<MartijnVdS> They've done almost 50 different brews
<brobostigon> 7ycool, you do see it every so often at beer fastivals, chocolate brewed with varieties.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: wow, :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: whats their speciality ?
<MartijnVdS> they're scaling up as well -- we (lots of friends + family) put money together for my brother's birthday so he (and my other brother) can go and brew 1000l of their favourite brew
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: lots of IPA
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting choice,
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: alot of ipa's are nice, but i prefer more malt, and sweetness.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: they do all kinds of things, they've done Pilsners, and all kinds of beers with some kind of "special" taste
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ("pepper", "wood smoke", etc.)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: special taste? hmm, i can imagine.
<MartijnVdS> garlic beer++
<MartijnVdS> a bit weird.. but nice
<brobostigon> weird, yes. probably not tried anything like it.
<shauno> reminds me, I fell in love with an english beer in the states, and haven't managed to find it here :/  http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/935/14563
<MartijnVdS> bbc 4 time :)
<brobostigon> when albums ruled. hmmm,
<brobostigon> it was interesting, a couple of days ago, my dad commented to me, he was listening and watching bill gates speak, and then commented, he us one boring windbag isnt he. interesting observation.
<shauno> he's not the most captivating speaker
<brobostigon> very true.
<shauno> I don't begrudge him much anymore though.  he's found something more useful to do, and moved on
<ahayzen> AlanBell, looks like you unity window quicklist idea has been approved? bug 1107866
<lubotu3> bug 1107866 in unity (Ubuntu) "Show window list when right clicking an icon in launcher - enables quick window switching" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1107866
<ali1234> someone implemented it inside unity
<ahayzen> and the design team actually approved it :)
<AlanBell> gosh
<AlanBell> the design team gave a resounding "meh" last time
<brobostigon> keith moon, and john and jason bonham, :)
<AlanBell> I guess doing it in C++ made all the difference
<ali1234> you have to admit your implementation was a bit of a hack, relying on unstable dbus apis...
<ali1234> and also tricking unity into thinking your script was every running program
<AlanBell> oh, no doubt this is a better implementation
<AlanBell> how should I know they are unstable dbus APIs?
<ali1234> yeah that part isn't your fault
<AlanBell> there is no documentation, I had to just work it all out from d-feet
<ali1234> the "tricking unity" part though...
<AlanBell> so yeah, they could be unstable
<AlanBell> hmm, was I tricking unity?
<ali1234> yes.
<ali1234> you have to register app name before you can edit menus
<ali1234> so you have to tell unity "i am firefox" and then edit firefox menus
<AlanBell> no, you don't
<ali1234> you used to
<AlanBell> no, I remember that part, I was a bit surprised to find that you can just add quicklists to any launcher icon even if it isn't "yours"
<ali1234> yes, by registering yourself as that application
<ali1234> # Pretend to be firefox
<ali1234> launcher = Unity.LauncherEntry.get_for_desktop_id ("Firefox.desktop")
<ali1234> is i believe what the example used to say
<AlanBell> ah, OK, I didn't think that was tricking it, I get the desktop files from BAMF
<AlanBell> It registers for bamf.RunningApplicationsDesktopFiles
<AlanBell> and bamf gives it desktop files, and it pokes at the launcher entries for the desktop files
<ali1234> well, the use of the word "pretend" kind of implies something.... i'm pretty sure i copy pasted that line from unity quick menu example
<AlanBell> ql = launcher[applicationpath].get_property("quicklist")
<AlanBell> wrong bit, that is my object
<AlanBell> launcher[path]=Unity.LauncherEntry.get_for_desktop_file (app.DesktopFile(dbus_interface='org.ayatana.bamf.application'))
<ali1234> last time i tried to use quicklists, deleting a menu item crashed unity
<AlanBell> I found that to be relatively stable, it helps a lot to use a window manager that supports switching to the window that you want to switch to
<AlanBell> gnome shell has basically the same thing on the launcher
<MartijnVdS> this "albums" program on BBC Four is quite good
<brobostigon> mason. :)
<redtape-renegade> At 1.1GHz ... Will this run 13.04 @ $329dollars ??  :::  http://shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Laptops/HP-Pavilion/D1A48UA?HP-Pavilion-14-c010us-Chromebook&003=6573323&010=D1A48UA#ABA&srccode=cii_5784816&cpncode=30-113582663-2
<MartijnVdS> chromebooks run chromeos
 * redtape-renegade Can't believe that Hp are going with Chrome !! 
<MartijnVdS> It tends to be Hard to run Ubuntu on them
<directhex> chromebooks are locked down
<ali1234> until you flip the developer mode switch
<directhex> ali1234, which doesn't entirely remove the lockdown
<ali1234> you might as well say it doesn't make the device grow wings and fly away
<ali1234> it lets you boot linux on the thing
<brobostigon> lol
<redtape-renegade> although anything with Pavilion on the cover tends to be $100 over and above the actual worth of being the thing. redtape-renegade Pity's the fools.
<redtape-renegade> **worth of buying the thing ..
<redtape-renegade> 1.1 Crumbs that's cutting it fine !
<redtape-renegade> So , where's the sourcecode for Chromebuntu then ? á---  There's the Real Question !!
<redtape-renegade> Hapy to paypal someone for that !
<shauno> what on earth is Chromebuntu?
<redtape-renegade> shauno: Hangon .. but, by the ignorance I take it you can't source the code anyhow .
<shauno> chromeos is all on chromium's git.  but 'chromebuntu' I'm not familiar with
<redtape-renegade> shauno: http://chromeos-cr48.blogspot.com/
<brobostigon> nick mason had one genius moustache,
<redtape-renegade> brobostigon: & that's on Radio4, beeb is it ?
<brobostigon> redtape-renegade: bbc4, yes.
<shauno> (not radio4.  difficult to admire taches on the radio ;)
<redtape-renegade> XD
<redtape-renegade> .. no takers for a paypal-ment to see the Chrbuntu sourcecode .. last call !
<brobostigon> and amazingly, everytime, someone who i have had to describe what my younger brother is like, and i have described him like the younger david gilmour, most of the girls have agreed.
<redtape-renegade> brobostigon:  'my brother' ! Ha ! Is he the reason for your nick's possession ?
<redtape-renegade> If I had a brother he would be my business partner like the Barclay's brothers !
<brobostigon> redtape-renegade: huh, umm, i am not following.
<redtape-renegade> It's a Silly joke about 'bro' being in your 'nick' .
<brobostigon> redtape-renegade: you recognise where my nick comes from?
 * redtape-renegade admits sillyness.
<redtape-renegade> brobostigon:  No, be nice if you'd explain it for me .. does my 'ead in - not knowin'  !
<brobostigon> redtape-renegade: read, starship titanic, by terry jones and douglas adams, :)
<redtape-renegade> Aaah, ...It's pure fantasy  .. explains the sentiment of the comments , then.
 * redtape-renegade understands.
<brobostigon> redtape-renegade: my nick is a charecter from that book.
<redtape-renegade> Yes, but do you have the wikia reference whenever you log-off in your ' brobostigon left' final message ? Otherwise the intell. is lost...
<brobostigon> redtape-renegade: i rarly logoff, so wait and see.
<redtape-renegade> I'll take that as a -can't be concerned with it- comment
<brobostigon> redtape-renegade: i have one set, dont worry about that.
<dogmatic69> anyone tried out owncloud? http://owncloud.org/
<dogmatic69> looks half decent
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: yeah, I have
<AlanBell> it is half decent
<AlanBell> I don't like the client half much, I confused it a bit
<AlanBell> all sync clients are rubbish and don't work, except for dropbox which is rubbish, but works.
<dogmatic69> It seemed to crash my browser when I was clicking all over. but I have 50 tabs open
<AlanBell> I haven't tried sparkleshare yet, I need to do that
<redtape-renegade> dogmatic69: Why do you - have something I can sync with - so I just have to use the client, or what ?
<AlanBell> dropbox server is rubbish, even if the client works
<AlanBell> owncloud has a really interesting plugin framework for arbitary applications
<AlanBell> way more than filesync. The filesync could be a nice feature if it worked better, but owncloud does way more
<dogmatic69> redtape-renegade: what?
<redtape-renegade> dogmatic69: "What" ? : What is this a Stuttering Holmes contest, or Plz be more specific .
<crumhorn> redtape-renegade, Got the email, son.
<crumhorn> dogmatic69, I think he is postulating whether you have anything to share ?
<dogmatic69> crumhorn: I can't make out the broken English.
<crumhorn> dogmatic69, He is asking whether you have anything to share 'to others' on this owncloud.org ?
<Azelphur> hmm, ZoneMinder is disappointing me, It has no audio support at all, and it won't work with my cameras PTZ, even though the interface is amazingly simple.
<crumhorn> redtape-renegade, Yeah, I'd give up on that one, Some ppl are a lost cause... see you in Holland !
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Just So I know, my dadz asked if I could get a DVD of Xubuntu  .. do you know of any ?? No Prob.s if you don't.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-09
<AlanBell> no, they don't get pressed
<AlanBell> just download it and burn it (or put it on USB which is generally better)
<Azelphur> AlanBell: ZoneMinder is seriously disappointing me :(
<AlanBell> :(
<Azelphur> last release august 2011, lacks basic features like...audio
<AlanBell> yeah, it seems to be stuck on old style cctv with not much support for new toys
<Azelphur> indeed
<AlanBell> http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/304 is more the kind of thing I want it to do
<Azelphur> I wanted to do this too.
<AlanBell> spot interesting things, follow them around and make videos with sound of interesting stuff
<Azelphur> exactly
<Azelphur> svn has been dead since last July, so yea.
<AlanBell> also timelapse
<Azelphur> I have been looking into doing it in python with opencv
<Azelphur> I reckon opencv would give a significant amount of awesome features.
<AlanBell> want to do scheduled snapshots in different directions and timelapse them
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> well, I'm having trouble audio grabbing in python atm, hopefully I'll get somewhere.
<Azelphur> that face tracking example you linked, that's done in OpenCV.
<Azelphur> so if I could get something similar to ZoneMinder (at least the basics) powered by OpenCV, it'd be a huge step in the right direction
<AlanBell> yes, I think opencv is the way forward
<AlanBell> there are different approaches to the area of cameras really
<AlanBell> some people want a multi-camera serious security setup
<AlanBell> others want a cool toy that does interesting things and also does security
<Azelphur> there's no reason both can't be done really
<AlanBell> I have two of the cameras now, the one at the front door is being useful, the other isn't really, I haven't decided where to mount it
<Azelphur> I've got one atm :)
<AlanBell> I might reflash the firmware on that one, I want to try and get a command prompt on it via ssh or telnet
<AlanBell> I did some stuff with huggin to make panoramas which was interesting
<AlanBell> and if you take a bunch of pictures and average them you can get rid of a lot of sensor noise
<Azelphur> hehe
<AlanBell> I also discovered something interesting about the noise, it appears to be related to a 16x8 pixel grid
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/cleansnaplight.png if you zoom in on that you can see a grid pattern
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/cleansnapdark.png
<AlanBell> same for that one
<AlanBell> those images are the result of merging about 500 frames and picking the lightest pixel from all the frames or the darkest pixel from all the frames
<AlanBell> there is this sensor grid where the most noise happens that gets exposed by this, the most variable pixels form the dark and light grid
<AlanBell> I expect that kind of thing could be used in video image forensics as it is a bit of a signature of the camera and would probably show up tampering
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> fun story
<ali1234> once i was messing around on mturk
<ali1234> and i found a job asking for pictures "of anything"
<ali1234> turns out they wanted jpegs from as many cameras as possible so they could analyse the compression artifacts for forensics
<ali1234> they paid me like $5 for taking 3 pictures on each of my many cameras and phones
<ali1234> that's the best paying job i ever saw on there by far
<AlanBell> cool
<ali1234> opencv is good but the API is pretty bad
<ali1234> it uses many pointers
<ali1234> even the python version is just like using C
<ali1234> you can do simple motion detect using numpy and scipy which are much nicer to use
 * AlanBell dislikes pointers
<ali1234> but that's going to be too limited if yu want to do face detect
<ali1234> AlanBell: i don't know why you dislike pointers so much
<ali1234> you should learn assembler, then you will love pointers
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Oh, I didn't know that they didn't get pressed.. thanx .. A word of Warning.. Never go to the shop after midnight !! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Kubuntu%20Pens.png
<AlanBell> pointers let you hurt yourself
<ali1234> get an arduino and program it to do "hello world" in assembler
<AlanBell> that is a lot of pens redtape-renegade
<redtape-renegade> yep .. how long to canonical usu. take to deliver ?
<AlanBell> dunno
<AlanBell> the americans complain about delivery costs and times
<ali1234> isle of man is now known as pen island
<redtape-renegade> but, Do They Deliver ?
<AlanBell> I have had tshirts from the store fairly quickly
<AlanBell> night all o/
<redtape-renegade>  nightology ...
<p-rad> Recently installed ubuntu 12.04, having some issues with updates and speed. New to linux. Can someone help?
<redtape-renegade> daftykins, Finally installed X-Chat,     ... now we're suckin' diesel !!
<redtape-renegade> Sorry where R my manners .. Morning All !
<kanturk> redtape-renegade, Morning...
<kanturk> Morning All !
<redtape-renegade> I quite Agree . There are definate advantages to saving to a PNG picture rather than a PDF :: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Lubuntu%20desktop%20Feb%2713%20screenshot%20LOGO.png
<popey> morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<Klettbar> morning
<Klettbar> good?
<Laney> moo
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS has new walking shoes
<brobostigon> :)
<mungbean> whats the best mp3 tagging software nowadays?
<mungbean> had some problems with musicbrainz a while back
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: picard uses musicbrainz, I use it for everything
<MartijnVdS> if it's not on MB, I add it
<mungbean> works ok ?
<MartijnVdS> works great
<mungbean> i thought something changed/broke
<MartijnVdS> yeah they changed their API
<MartijnVdS> but they also release a new version of picard.. so it works again/still
<mungbean> but works OOTB on 12.04 still?
<MartijnVdS> 12.04.. that's a good one
<MartijnVdS> No idea! :)
<brobostigon> jane silber on bbc click.
 * penguin42 yawns
<popey> mungbean: what release was it that hte installer crapped out for you on, was it 12.04 or 12.10?
<popey> if I recall it was when you enabled encryption
<popey> mungbean: did the machine have windows on it too?
<mungbean> popey: it was a kvm server provided by a hosting provider
<mungbean> my colleague never got to the bottom of it
<mungbean> but when he got onto 3.5 kernel it didn't repeat anymore
<mungbean> seems hard to failt find cos it was a hosting provider's machine
<penguin42> popey: http://www.technologyreview.com/view/511121/this-robotic-fur-patch-is-cooler-than-your-cat/
<mungbean> correct, it was when luks/encryption done during install time on the cli installer
<popey> ah, luks
<popey> this is the home directory one
<popey> turns out it was the windows migration assistant, disabling that worked around the issue
<penguin42> popey: Is it actually an install fest  or more generic meeting?
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: Dunno but As Far As your Link above, the video doesn't play in my chromium ... perhaps we all just realizing it's not Caturday, today ; including my web-browser. :)
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: :-(   Hmm playing on my ff here
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: Hmm playing in chromium 24.0.1312.56 (Ubuntu 13.04) here
<redtape-renegade> penguin42:  mmm, Ok .. 'bit Odd that !  Is today an 'Odd' day ? .. Oh yes, it is ...
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: Which days aren't odd?
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th .. kinda goes on till 32nd of December, which is my birthday !!
<penguin42> I like the 32nd, so relaxing
<mungbean> have you all watched tpb afk film yet?
 * penguin42 wonders what Mx is as a prenominal
<redtape-renegade> Anyway enough of Aberrant-ness .. it plays in firefox now, so we're all Ok there, thenm :)
<popey> penguin42: generic lug meeting
<popey> just gave a talk about popey.com/house
<redtape-renegade> AGLUG ? popey, is that true ?
<penguin42> popey: Nice
<redtape-renegade> popey, You had a GLUG ?
<popey> I'm at a LUG meet..
<redtape-renegade> AAhh but you said G.L.U.G meeting  6 lines ago .. Does everyone know the difference ?
<popey> i didnt
<popey> I said generic because penguin42 asked what type it was, whether it was an install fest or a generic lug meet
<redtape-renegade> popey:    Careful now ! You are close to " Minas Ithil "or the "One that Sees from Afar" stone .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PalantÃ­r .. Not All the G.L.U.G.'s have been found !! G.L.U.G. if you 'didn't' know is a Gnu./Linux User Group ..
<popey> the LUGs near me are LUGs, not GLUGs
<popey> someone from the FSF tried to rebrand LUGs to GLUGs and failed
<penguin42> popey: Well just have a talk about Android one day and nail it
 * redtape-renegade thnks popey is on the NazgÃ»l side as he is against the Gnu .L.U.G. -stones.
<popey> I certainly am against rebranding LUGs for the sake for keeping one guy from the FSF happy, yes.
<popey> google for uk glug - > find a zillion useless results
<popey> google for uk lug -> find lots of useful results
<penguin42> nod
 * redtape-renegade google P.L.U.G. and gets this result by mistake :::: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/plugincheck/
<redtape-renegade> Funny .. the plugincheck-er doesn't always work thou.   :::: https://support.cdn.mozilla.net/media/uploads/images/2013-02-06-07-46-02-3afbd9.png
<redtape-renegade> Crumbs he wasn't lying !! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/RedHat%20Lug%20%5Bpopey%5D.png
<penguin42> well he normally doesn't
<redtape-renegade> judgebot: !popey
<redtape-renegade> This is ludicrous !! Why wasn't this advertised to me last week ? It' on lt costs Â£29 to get to the UcK :: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays
<redtape-renegade> ***it only costs Â£29 return to get to the UK ...
<penguin42> from where?
<redtape-renegade> I spent more than that on Ubuntu 17 hours ago .. !!  http://goo.gl/eECE1  daftykins : They are doing it again .
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: Thouglas
<redtape-renegade> AKA Douglas IM14LE
<penguin42> oh not that far away
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: Where does the Â£29 get you to?
<redtape-renegade> Yeah, If you can get past the Thoug's
<redtape-renegade> Well it's Â£30 to Sellafield is the old expression  .. would you like me to explain ?
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: Ah, so yeh, probably cost you more to get from there to London
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: You use the wrong wiki's .. hang-on
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: wiki.org/en/M6_(GB)
<redtape-renegade> oops...
<redtape-renegade> www.hitchwiki.org/en/M6_(GB)
<penguin42> hahah hitchhiking the M6...heck
<redtape-renegade> there was a TED talk on it .. v. useful
 * penguin42 generally prefers the Train, but it's a bit pricey
<redtape-renegade> trainline á---- .. do you use it often ??
<penguin42> yeh, but it's no cheaper than anywhere else and it just seems to have the same prebook discounts
<redtape-renegade> So, tell me penguin42 , If I want to get to Plymouth via Liverpool using Trainline ( the rightway) .. How much would it cost and can you give me a screen-selection-shot (App.shutter) of the result   ?? .. So I can plan an excursion this summer !
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: To be honest I'd use transportdirect.info
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: And when you say via, is that where your starting from?
<redtape-renegade> opening  ... www.transportdirect.info (Start Liverpool)
 * redtape-renegade is still annoyed he never was informed about the Ubuntu User days . poobuntu.
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: Am I an idiot or does www.transportdirect.info not work for me ? Can you help, as you advocated it , Plz ??
<penguin42> sure
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: OK, so it's appeared for me, what problem are you having with it? (I'm using firefox)
<penguin42> also seems to work in chrome, so in that case I guess I have to say.....
<redtape-renegade> Just try and plan a train journey from Liverpool Limestreet to Plymoyuth Main station (both train station !) .. see if you can get anywhere 'cos I still stuck in Bedington !
<redtape-renegade> **I'm still stuck..
<penguin42> ok, what date did you tell it?
<redtape-renegade> 2 months from today.
<penguin42> what time?
<redtape-renegade> (Apr). Tiome .. 08:55 UTC
<penguin42> and wth is Bedington....
<penguin42> done it for me
<redtape-renegade> (I'm in bed atymo. ) :)  .. Oh Really !! Prove it to me ...
<penguin42> sure just let me imagebin it
<redtape-renegade> k
<redtape-renegade> What size screen do you have .. just outta interest ??
<penguin42> http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=11553
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: 1920x1080
<redtape-renegade> opening ..  I meant in inches ..
 * penguin42 hates to think why that matters - but 24"
<redtape-renegade> np
 * penguin42 disappears for a bit
<redtape-renegade>  .. I'm looking at your imgbin .. & I'm thinking .. I already knew that already .. The real question is the cost .. How much is the journey ? Not including roasted nuts .. !
<cocoa117> if i want to know what kind codec of a MP3 file has been using, what tool can be used here?
<redtape-renegade> penguin42:  .. great so it costs numerous MaverickMeerkats , as I understand
<redtape-renegade> askubuntu.
<redtape-renegade> Â£43.50 .. Why did that take 20 minutes ?? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/%C2%A343.50%20GBP%20Limestreet%20to%20Plymouth.png
<DJones> AlanBell: What was the ratemyrack website you were using? (I think it was you anyway)
 * redtape-renegade gets to go and get the mailbox today .. Bedington be gone !
<redtape-renegade> Great another thrilling installment of Hawker's Bazaar http://goo.gl/py5hd  .. Who put me on their damn mailing list ?
<redtape-renegade> shauno: A friend of yours ?? http://askubuntu.com/users/14325/shauna
<shauno> redtape-renegade: nothing to do with me :)
<shauno> they're a whole lot more active than I am :/
<redtape-renegade> Any translators out there working on Ubuntu or it's Manuals ?? Someone just tweeted me to ask why there is no American Indian translation of " Ubuntu in Cree  " , with this Web-Reference http://apihtawikosisan.com/2013/02/08/idle-no-more-some-ideas-for-cree-language-revitalisation-resource-focus/
 * redtape-renegade is not sure how to tweet/respond  ??
<shauno> are they volunteering?
<shauno> the only barrier to any translation is "just" willing & able volunteers with sufficient fluency
<redtape-renegade> shauno: Where do I send them for example ? lauchpad, Ubuntu wiki, www.getlocalization.com .. Where, where ?
<shauno> I'd assume https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/StartingTeam  since there's not already a Cree team
<shauno> there's also https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators  which would be better placed to answer questions
<redtape-renegade> Ok tweeted the 2nd one shauno thanx     ... Meanwhile in Cree-Land ...
<redtape-renegade> http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/6a7d7e8541/bane-causes-the-superbowl-blackout?utm_campaign=newsletter20130207&utm_content=fv2&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=fd
<shauno> "blocked plugin"  ;)
<redtape-renegade> k n.probs .. just doing the emails for 3 days here .. Always get great questions/concerns for Ubuntu .. My first is '3D' as in ...
<redtape-renegade> http://www.svp.co.uk/product.php?product=KM100  Can this be set up as a Â£60 webcam ?
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Are you still getting those adverts for loose women .. Here's what's messaging me today  ... but can she code ?? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/eharmony%20conclusion%20%3D%20Wish%20I%20was%20in%20New%20York%20for%20St%20Patricks%20day.png
<AlanBell> mature women is what I get, you might get the loose ones :)
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: HaHa ! ..  mature women are loose aren't they  (?) .. unless they've the craic of a nun !
<daftykins> nice family friendly convo 8D
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<popey> Evening all!
<redtape-renegade> daftykins: Aloha ! (from the Volcanic Island of Mannin)  .. Yes, it was a post from over a week ago .. bit weak of my behalf .. how's the new house going ??
<brobostigon> evening popey'ness
<daftykins> redtape-renegade: not bad ty, bought a few more little odds and ends tonight. may consider moving in a proper come Thursday when my mattress + sofa gets delivered \o/
<daftykins> popey: allo o/
<redtape-renegade> popey .. how's Ubuntu User Day going ??
<popey> no idea
<redtape-renegade> :(
<redtape-renegade> thought, that's what all the LUG thing was attached to ..
<popey> nope
<redtape-renegade> Ubuntu User Day .. Does it exist ?
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays yes
<popey> looks like AlanBell is involved
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: apparently your guilty ?
 * AlanBell is doing a session now
<redtape-renegade>  21:00
<redtape-renegade> 	
<redtape-renegade> Accessibility Applications
<redtape-renegade> 	
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell  Agreed .. what #channel ?
<AlanBell> #ubuntu-classroom
<redtape-renegade> cool.
<Azelphur> I just had a reasonably hilarious argument with someone insisting that the fan belt on their computer was broken, and asking me to fix it.
<Azelphur> they were quite adamant that it was most definitely the fan belt.
<Azelphur> xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: OK ok
<penguin42> Azelphur: So, you asked them if they'd tried cleaning the spark plugs?
<Azelphur> pretty much, I told her that computers don't have fan belts
<Azelphur> then I said "It's not a car, it doesn't have a fan belt"
<Azelphur> xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: https://plus.google.com/photos/118251468822440261663/albums/5494186793315464977/5494187481146565682     is about as close as I've seen
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> that thing looks older than I am
<penguin42> how old are you?
<Azelphur> 22
<penguin42> yep
<Azelphur> xD
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> you can have a laugh with the belt on optical drives
<Azelphur> hehe
<penguin42> Azelphur: built about 80-81
<Azelphur> 9-10 years before I was born then ;)
<daftykins> ehehe
<daftykins> i'm 28 in a few days :<
<Azelphur> she tried telling me that if I broke it I'd have to pay for it too, that's when we got to the big ol "NOPE"
<penguin42> Azelphur: 27MB 14" hard drive on an ICL Perq; 1MB RAM, ran Unix
<daftykins> how was this humorous acquaintance established then, Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> daftykins: local club I go to xD
<daftykins> ah
<penguin42> Azelphur: I was given that machine when I was at Uni, it didn't boot when we got it home (and two of us lifted it up the stairs) the belt was off (and the lock screw was in)
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i was quite interested at a practical example of HDD data recovery recently
<penguin42> ?
<daftykins> a friend brought me an old laptop HDD of his, new enough to be SATA mind you
<Azelphur> penguin42: what is that belt even for? a hard drive platter or possibly a tape?
<daftykins> it streamed errors and wouldn't let a liveUSB boot, Windows equally bricked it trying to talk to it
<penguin42> Azelphur: To spin the platters
<Azelphur> ah for the hard drive, yea
<daftykins> he sent it off and a co. replaced a head on the drive, managing to pull the data off after :O
<daftykins> he got charged around Â£350 to get the data, but it was important travel photos so he wanted them
<Azelphur> daftykins: I have a USB hub that makes the PC turn off when I plug it in
<Azelphur> it's like the death hub of doom.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we all know about you and USB gear ;)
<daftykins> hehe i jest
<Azelphur> ali1234: ^ speaking of that, that was my main USB hub I've been using for the past few years, I pulled it out and plugged it into my HTPC and it does that
<Azelphur> so yea, maybe it was dodgy xD
<Azelphur> I got a nice USB 3 hub now though
<daftykins> ooh fancy
<daftykins> ok i've decided that tonight is my last night of leaving my IRC client running, ahead of my house move
<daftykins> i've no idea how long it's going to be between now and having a net conn up and running in my new place, a few stages of confusion to go through between now and then
<popey> where you moving to?
<daftykins> still Guernsey, but i've just bought a place on the capital
<daftykins> *in
<daftykins> so i won't even have to ride home post-pub any longer ^_^
<penguin42> Azelphur: The drive was apparently a Shugart SA4000, 24MB, 87ms average access time, 7Mbit/s
<Azelphur> penguin42: haha ouch
<daftykins> though i may have to fight off anyone who equally cba to go home :>
<daftykins> who try and scrounge a bed for the night :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: If it makes you feel any better some of the guys I work with at the moment have been working with computers since I was born
<daftykins> my ol' College still has one of the old 5MB IBM beasts that's the size of two electric sewing machines side by side :O big clear plastic cover to it
<daftykins> penguin42: do you ever have to drag them kicking and screaming into even the 20th century? ;)
 * penguin42 reads the manual for the hard drive 'After application of DC power, a 1.25 minute internally generated delay to ready is introduced'
<daftykins> XD
<penguin42> daftykins: Haha sometimes, it's a bit hard
<daftykins> what's even the interface on that thing?
<penguin42> daftykins: I suspect the interface is what became ST506 for MFM/RLL drives
<ali1234> hooray for fence post errors
<penguin42> daftykins: It's very simple; it's not that far off a floppy interface
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> daftykins: with a 'step' input to cause the drive head to step
<ali1234> disk read tool has options "start cylinder" and "end cylinder" and if you set then equal it does nothing, but if end is start +1 it reads two cylinders
<daftykins> wowzer, to think the amount of stuff that has already become defunct in my time
<penguin42> daftykins: Oh yeh it's pretty scary
<daftykins> like when i was teaching i already felt that the kids were missing out from the lack of device mode setting for channel sharing of devices with PATA :)
<penguin42> stuff evolves, can be difficult to keep up with
<daftykins> they have it too easy with SATA :D
<penguin42> daftykins: I guess I got my 1st hard drive in I guess late 80's and that was still MFM format, so you still had to format the drive, but it was at least a sane 3.5"
<daftykins> penguin42: back then, did it keep a table in its' own firmware of bad sectors it found there and then?
<penguin42> no
<penguin42> daftykins: They were dumb drives, no firmware
<ali1234> lol firmware
<penguin42> <disappears for about 90mins>
<daftykins> ah ok :>
<daftykins> i did nearly start with that as a question after i typed that one
<ali1234> bad blocks were stored at filesystem level for amigados
<ali1234> i'm guessing really early stuff didn't handle them at all
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> ouch
<daftykins> ok i'm about to call it an early night
<daftykins> and with that i'm going to disappear, so i'm sure i'll return before a month is out
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Good talk you gave on #ubuntu-classroom .. V. helpful t my American friend Jonathan Nadeau .. but I join half way through .. Where are the logs again Plz. ??
<daftykins> take care all \o
<redtape-renegade> night o/
<Azelphur> penguin42: hehe, I don't mind being young xD
<brobostigon> traceroute 216.81.59.173  , results in some interesting results. :)
<AlanBell> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/09/%23ubuntu-classroom.html redtape-renegade
<redtape-renegade> thanx.
<jennie> please tell me other browsers than firefox in ubuntu
<brobostigon> chromium,
<jennie> and one more please
<brobostigon> konquerer
<jennie> thanks
<brobostigon> jennie: epiphany also.
<directhex> dillo!
<brobostigon> lynx
<brobostigon> elinks
<directhex> w3m
<Laney> telnet
<popey> emacs
<popey> (i assume)
<directhex> CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCHJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ!NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGG
<bigcalm> Cat?
<bigcalm> Baby?
<directhex> cat
<ali1234> i thought it was a violent allergic reaction to emacs
<penguin42> you can normally tell cats by the distance between the characters
<penguin42> although it's got to be said the ! is impressive, I guess that's one paw on shift
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-10
<darrenfoster1976> evening all :-)
<penguin42> hey
<bigcalm> Morning
<darrenfoster1976> ahhh you are all awake then?
<bigcalm> Unlikely
<bigcalm> I'm not awake in any way
<penguin42> zzzzZzzzz
<bigcalm> This is just a dream, right?
<darrenfoster1976> lol... ive not been here before im a noob, just wanted to say hi
<penguin42> welcome!
<darrenfoster1976> ive been using ubuntu for about 2 years properly, as a user but now want to seriously start sharing stuff locally
<darrenfoster1976> thanks penguin
 * bigcalm slithers off to bed
 * dwatkins hands darrenfoster1976 an nice hot cup of tea
<darrenfoster1976> :-)
<darrenfoster1976> so anyone from Cornwall in?
<darrenfoster1976> im in Truro
 * penguin42 is somewhat further North in Manc
<darrenfoster1976> marvelous has it started snowing yet?
<penguin42> no
<dwatkins> I'm most of the way up the other end of the island, in Edinburgh, darrenfoster1976
<darrenfoster1976> hmmm from one end to the other
<dwatkins> yeah, although people keep reminding me there's a lot of land north of here.
<darrenfoster1976> whats everyone upto? is there a topic of discussion?
<dwatkins> I'm currently watching the ill-fated Terminator series whilst configuring my Raspberry Pi to be a temperature sensor and chatting to people on IRC...
<darrenfoster1976> awesome... ive seen a youtube video showing a Pi as a temperature sensor looked pretty neat.
<penguin42> darrenfoster1976: It tends to be quite random on here :-)
<darrenfoster1976> im pretty random so ill fit in well then
<darrenfoster1976> so im considering putting together a server to play with as a home server, and LAMP... should i go with 12.04 or 12.10? any thoughts? or recommendations?
<popey> 12.04
<penguin42> darrenfoster1976: If you want it to be a home server that you can just leave alone then 12.04 is probably  a good bet if it does everything you want; you just need to keep up with security until another year or more
<popey> i use 12.04 on my homeserver - an HP Microserver
<Azelphur> My friend told me about PushBullet an hour ago, https://github.com/Azelphur/pyPushBullet
 * Azelphur is speedy
<darrenfoster1976> thanks, 12.04 it is
<redtape-renegade> darrenfoster1976: Have you been folowing the Ubuntu User Days ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell- who runs the UK Ubuntu LoCo team was doing a seminar today on #ubuntu-classroom
<redtape-renegade> Here's the log ... http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/09/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
<redtape-renegade> darrenfoster1976: It's also on tomorrow (Sunday the 10th) from midday entitled :: " Using Launchpad " ... FYI.
<darrenfoster1976> thanks
<darrenfoster1976> sorry zoned out on another pc
<darrenfoster1976> thanks for that redtape, i know most of that but im more interested in server side stuff, but thank you anyway
<ball> How do I install a Java plug-in for Firefox or Chromium?
<tix> why you afraid of guns, england?
<Myrtti> -___-
<tix> Myrtti: hi
<tix> you afraid of guns? you afraid of 'murica?
<Myrtti> tix: I'm not susceptible to trolling
<Myrtti> try gardening, it's a much more rewarding hobby
<tix> Myrtti: no
<tix> i enjoy my firearms
<tix> Myrtti: you live in the UK?
<kvarley> Ran a bunch of updates on my laptop last night and now it hangs on the Ubuntu boot screen (the one with dots on) all the dots go orange and then nothing happens. Ideas?
<kvarley> I've tried getting to a shell but it doesn't seem to want to let me
<kvarley> Yes, in a root session
<kvarley> Thank goodness for recovery mode
<kvarley> Managed to hit Ctrl + Alt + Del before the boot splash froze which caused a reboot to Grub with the options showing so I was able to edit the boot parameters
<kvarley> I can't see anything in the error logs
<kvarley> Can't get it to boot still tho
<kvarley> Whoever had the idea to keep the old kernel version after an upgrade is a genius
<kvarley> Managed to boot it from the old kernel
<kvarley> Suspect this whole mess up was down to manually installed fglrx
<redtape-renegade> allo Sunday snooze's !!  Boy o'boy Coffee Republic gave me a brilliant idea at 7.04am this morning .. A daily wordpress blog about the infamous page 47 of the Idependant 'I' newspaper  . Like here --- á http://goo.gl/PEUol
<redtape-renegade> Note my connection is a little busy so hit the above 'goo.gl'  Link in after 09:40am
<redtape-renegade> Quick Question .. It's ready to look at now , however, my question is:: Does Anyone now Of A Really Nice Font to Use for the *blog* ??? or will this do ... http://t.co/oAzeXoXZ
<popey> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<kanturk> redtape-renegade  tries , but sometimes this #channel is  more  -ala-  the deaf community on Sunday morn's  :-[
<dwatkins> Why is page 47 infamous, redtape-renegade?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<jacobw> hey brobostigon
 * daubers builds a controller for his central heating
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<jacobw> daubers: that sounds like a good use of a sunday
<daubers> jacobw: Best one I can think of.... assuming the reprap manages to finish the 7 hour print of the case for it
<jacobw> daubers: that machine is awesome
<jacobw> self hosting 3d printers :p
<jacobw> :o even
<jacobw> skynet is here
<daubers> heh
<dalsim> good morning
<jacobw> hi dalsim
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm and dalsim
 * MartijnVdS is playing with OpenWRT builds (from source)
<brobostigon> :)
<dwatkins> My Raspberry Pi controls the standby state of my TV better than the Xbox does.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: standby state of the tV?
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> I thought rpi didn't do cec yet?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: if I pause a video, the TV will go into standby mode after a few minutes, and come out again when I unpause
<MartijnVdS> oh that's nice
<MartijnVdS> my tv won't do that
<dwatkins> In fairness, it's Raspbmc that's controlling this, not the hardware, I imagine.
<MartijnVdS> (though it'll turn off the backlight if the screen is entirely black)
<dwatkins> SCART supports waking up a device, I believe, or at least switching to the active one, so I assume this is done using HDMI.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: HDMI CEC supports it, but I though that wasn't supported on Raspberry Pi (yet)
<dwatkins> I can make a video for any doubters ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it can do even more than SCART -- you can "walk" through device menus, toggle power, etc.
<MartijnVdS> it's a bus.
<dwatkins> neat
<dwatkins> ooh, modmypi is turning into quite a handy online shop for Pi-related things
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: ooooh!
<MartijnVdS> *bookmark*
<MartijnVdS> and affordable too
<dwatkins> yeah, might get a bunch of stuff for my munin temperature probe project from there
<dwatkins> I modified munin a while ago for my server to have lm-sensors report ambient temperature from this USB device as well as motherboard and CPU temperature, so it should be fairly easy to have a single graph of just the USB temperature which self-updates and I can display on a monitor in the office
<dwatkins> s/munin/a plugin for munin/
 * redtape-renegade wakes up again .. Morning, Afternoon whatever !
<SuperEngineer> hmm - "next meeting 09/01/2013 20:00" [see /title]
<SuperEngineer> well, it's better than "Next Meeting 14th November 20:00 UK Time" on #ubuntu-uk-meeting /title [mostly]
<Laney> someone should mode -t this channel then we can fix it ourselves
<Azelphur> Anyone know how you tell github to update your fork from the main repo?
<SuperEngineer> nah - no reason to put sarcastic comments about /title if it's up to date ;)
<SuperEngineer> I asked this on the mail list but no real answer forthcoming: anyone know if it's safe to delete some/all of the 1,583 files in my home/.compiz-1/session?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Are they still being created - one a day whenever you log in?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: from the time/date stamps - yes
<SuperEngineer> my thought is to move all but today's into a separate folder & see what happens
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: In that case I'd say you have  a bug that they aren't being cleaned up, and I'd have thought if you deleted the old ones you would be fine; if you're worried just move them somewhere else and make sure it's happy
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: glad we agree
<SuperEngineer> bbs - logging off to see what happens on restart
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: that's all 1500+ permanently deleted & I'm stll here! seems time to go bug report checking or bug reporting.
<penguin42> yeh
<redtape-renegade> The Seat of Tynwald's - village - is set to become the home for the Game Of The Isles ... http://www.iomtoday.co.im/sport/football-news/st-john-s-make-bid-for-island-games-spot-1-5386915   .. popey  the National game of Extreme Ironing whilst trampolining is assured !  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5smhy9OB-CM
<penguin42> I guess the professionals do it with a hot iron....
<redtape-renegade> Technically an Iron can be a piece of Warmed-Up Lead that has a handle .. like they used to have in the 1800's , professional or otherwise.
<AlanBell> not sure lead is a good metal for that
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Did I say Lead ? What a freudian-slip !  Actually meant 82Pb .. dear me back to the Lab Academy with it's test-tubes for me (!!) ( or is that just  where I was incarnated by an evil genii ?)
<penguin42> AlanBell: Hmm lets see, how about Iron....
<AlanBell> mercury all the way
<penguin42> AlanBell: You're mad as a hatter...
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: bug #1121231
<lubotu3> bug 1121231 in compiz (Ubuntu) "/home/.compiz-1/session filling up with old session-id files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1121231
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I'm not running compiz, but it would be useful if someone else would confirm or figure out if it's just your machine
<SuperEngineer> if anyone fancies confirming it - that would be sweet
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: are you looking into my thoughts!!!!
 * penguin42 polishes his crystal ball
<PaulW2U> SuperEngineer: done that for you :)
<SuperEngineer> thankyou PaulW2U
 * SuperEngineer breathes sigh of relief
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: How big were the files; tiny (1kb or less?)
<penguin42> PaulW2U: Were you also on 12.04 ?
<PaulW2U> penguin42: I have 12.04 available and booted into it to check. Normally run Kubuntu 13.04 now
<penguin42> PaulW2U: OK, thanks
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: old ones are only 94 bytes [current is 622 bytes  -yes I do mean bytes rather than kB]
<PaulW2U> Yes, 94 bytes +/- 1 I think I found
 * penguin42 marks triaged/low
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<redtape-renegade> What is 'triaged' again ?
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: Basically has all the info needed for someone to try and work on it
<redtape-renegade> I see; I see                         ...
<SuperEngineer> 100 paper cuts candidate - but that would make it 101 paper cuts ;)
<penguin42> ok, that's bizarre; Maplin now sell via Tesco direct
<redtape-renegade> .. yep & I get the Maplin mini-catalogue
<redtape-renegade> (arrived last ~Tuesday).
<penguin42> you wouldn't have thought you could order a cabbage and a capacitor from the same site
<SuperEngineer> redtape-renegade: are they cheaper at Tesco than their own stores?
<redtape-renegade> .. it's more in the Sat-nav ditrection , me thnks.
<redtape-renegade> **direction...
<redtape-renegade> SuperEngineer: but you have mentioned this before & I have spoken to you about it.
<redtape-renegade> daftykins, How's the -ala- mediterranean [sic] weather in the channel ?
 * SuperEngineer confused by redtape-renegade comment - what did I mention to you
<redtape-renegade> SuperEngineer: Sorry .. redirect that last comment to penguin42 [ redtape is on a nk.color via weechat !]
<AlanBell> oh that rugby game is on, and czajkowski is losing
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: watching it as well -you're a braver man than I to rub that in!!
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Is it bettr than the Superb.Owl ? :D
<AlanBell> different type of hand-egg
<SuperEngineer> redtape-renegade: SuperBowl = crunch-bang goes the armour protection whereas rugby = crunch-bang goes the bones ;)
<redtape-renegade> Eggs ?? redtape-renegade  looks at his Cad. creme egg with Hobson's -Choice-conundrum. :   Should  I use it before or after St. Patricks Day ??
<redtape-renegade> Alternatively , Maybe it shouldn't be craic -ed !
<penguin42> a Screme egg would be better for St.Patrick's day - they have green filling
<redtape-renegade> mmm penguin42 Quite agree, but I only have the *one* ! That's what justifies the conunderum !
<redtape-renegade> Brainfart: Why not have a game of Animalia Phylum using multiple creme eggs as rugby balls ?? Think of the irony !!
<redtape> Ghehe /silent but deadly are the best !/
<mungbean> traceroute 216.81.59.173
<mungbean> ^^ epic
<brobostigon> mungbean: i linkied to that yesterday,
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: How do I go about en-acting that command ?
<mungbean> redtape-renegade: u on ubuntu?
<redtape-renegade> Lubuntu .. but yes..
<mungbean> type it in a terminal window
<mungbean> why is rubyripper sooo slow? what should i use to rip my cd?
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: "sudo aptget install traceroute" > "sudo: aptget: command not found"
<mungbean> brobostigon: are you on g+
<mungbean> apt-get needs a -
<brobostigon> mungbean: most certainly,
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: What now brains ?
<mungbean> brobostigon: can u pm me your profile?
<AlanBell> redtape-renegade: traceroute should be there by default, or tracepath
<SuperEngineer> redtape-renegade: network tools?
<brobostigon> mungbean: moment.
<redtape-renegade> Ahh , forgot the dash ! in apt*-*get .. butterfingers !
<mungbean> tracepath fails with too many hops
<brobostigon> mungbean: what details do you need ?
<mungbean> dunno, link so i can add u
<brobostigon> mungbean: link to what?
<mungbean> g+ profile
<brobostigon> mungbean: you need to be more specific.
<mungbean> or a link your have posted
<mungbean> on the g+
<mungbean> did you all enjoy the pirate bay film?
<redtape-renegade> Qu. Who is 'Soma' and what do they have to do with Princess Leia ?? http://goo.gl/4s2EZ
<SuperEngineer> mungbean: what's the traceroute for the next episode ;)
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: I did .. Esp .. T:47:56 minutes in when the drunk says :: "THE BAY !!"  .. classic xD
<mungbean> its an interesting concept
<mungbean> i don't agree with copyright violation, but there is serious abuse of it, and punishment of which is placed above more heinous crimes
<redtape-renegade> Surely it's :: The P.light of Copyleft  as the #channel's topic ?
<mungbean> topic says "HNY"
<mungbean> which it is for chinese :D
<mungbean> popey set topic on jan2nd though :P
<SuperEngineer> mungbean: it's as up to date as the "next meeting" part of the topic
 * SuperEngineer loves outr of date topics - gives a channel some character ;)
<aaronr> Hi everyone. I'm seeing a really weird buffer overflow in apache2 seemingly caused by libgcrypt or libgnutls, according to the backtrace. Even more strangely it seems to like happening on Sunday mornings, so it's perhaps being exacerbated by a weekly cron task. Do I need to be careful about reporting this in the open on Launchpad, with it being a potential security issue?
 * SuperEngineer loves outr of date topics - gives a result some character ;)
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: that's only beacause he couldn't type 'PNY' --- http://goo.gl/oIrtF -- <-- <-- He's obsessed with Chinese font's which are on his Far-East USB !!
<penguin42> aaronr: You can mark it as a security issue and not publicly viewable
<SuperEngineer> ..just like a certain Rugby scoreline at FT gives a game some character
<mungbean> anyone tried this yet? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/02/new-window-switching-method-added-to-unity
<mungbean> wanna know how it works with terminal windows
<aaronr> Ah, didn't know that. Thanks penguin42, I'll do that. Am I best reporting it under Apache, where I'm seeing the crash, or under libgcrypt which seems to be to blame each time?
<penguin42> mungbean: KDE has something similar in it's overview and uses the title of terminals; so it works well if you have your bash prompts to set the titles
 * redtape-renegade is tuck with Lubuntu D.Environment :(
<redtape-renegade> **is stuck ..
<penguin42> aaronr: It's your call; which ever you think is more likely to be broken, but explain why you made the choice you did
<mungbean> penguin42: i use it in docky, but don't use unity for that reason mainly
<aaronr> Would it be sensible to report it under both and perhaps put links between the two bugs? Or would double-filing like that be bad form?
<penguin42> aaronr: I'd just go for one
<aaronr> k
<aaronr> thanks!
<penguin42> aaronr: What makes you think it's a security issue?
<aaronr> It's a buffer overflow in either Apache or the GNU TLS library.
<aaronr> Sure, it's being caught and Apache's dying, but that's not really the point.
<penguin42> ok, best to go with mark it as security
<aaronr> Makes sense. I'd better go collect some logs then. Thanks for your help!
 * kvarley is amazed how satisfying it is playing games without having to reboot into Windows :)
<penguin42> aaronr: Do you have a way to repeat it on demand?
<aaronr> Not yet. But I do have a pretty intensive backup job running on Sunday mornings. A quick skim of existing bugs on Launchpad has me wondering if maybe it's related to this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgcrypt11/+bug/1084279
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1084279 in libgcrypt11 (Ubuntu) "buffer overflow crash in libgcrypt when open files > 1024" [Undecided,New]
<penguin42> aaronr: I've marked that as high/triaged
<aaronr> fantastic, thank you :)
<penguin42> aaronr: Does your backtrace also land at a line with an FDSET or similar?
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: How do you mark it as high/triaged, again ?
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: I'm a member of the ubuntu bugcontrol group and can set the importance and state of bugs
<redtape-renegade> Fantastic !
<aaronr> penguin42: I'm not sure. The backtrace is pointing at something in or underneath libgcrypt's gcry_create_nonce function. still working on interpreting it.
<penguin42> aaronr: Possible; that fix is in code to open the random number file, and you need some entropy for creating a nonce
<aaronr> http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=libgcrypt.git;a=commit;h=061b11de60415e228f33599270d66aafe4b88d72 seems to kind of match up. I'm not too hot on the internals of how encryption works, but it kind of follows that the nonce would be from a random number generator.
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> aaronr: So one question is why you've got 1000+ fd's open
<MartijnVdS> because he CAN
<aaronr> that's sort of normal. it's a busy server.
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: How would you define an *fd* , again ?
<MartijnVdS> aaronr: in one process?!
<penguin42> aaronr: WOw that is busy
<aaronr> hmm, no not in one process
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: An open file descriptor; file, socket or similar
<redtape-renegade> thanx.
<penguin42> aaronr: Well that would have to be in one process to cause that wouldn't it?
<aaronr> but that apache does have >100 virtualhosts
<aaronr> we're not seeing any traffic spikes when it happens, though.
<penguin42> aaronr: Slow CGI process?
<aaronr> That's entirely likely. We don't control what's on those virtualhosts.
<MartijnVdS> syn flood?
<aaronr> (shared hosting server)
<penguin42> aaronr: If you could find a way to trigger it on a test server, you could 1) try building a version of libgcrypt with that fix and see if it goes away   2) try it on a raring vm to see if it's fixed in rarin
<aaronr> okay. i'll fire up a test environment and see what i can do.
<aaronr> which would be the better test?
<penguin42> aaronr: My reading of it is that you need to get a whole bunch of fd's open and _then_ do some ssly stuff
<aaronr> yeah, i can try writing a quick ruby cgi to tie open a ton of files and then hold them open until i kill it.
<penguin42> aaronr: I'd get it tested on the same version as your running on, should be easier to confirm
<aaronr> as it seems to be the apache parent process that dies (seems like a child reports the crash in the log as it blames the parent dying) i think it might be okay having two processes running, one running the cgi, the other doing ssl things
<penguin42> aaronr: Do you run with a lot of threads per process?
<aaronr> That box is running the process-based prefork version of apache, rather than the threaded worker version.
<SuperEngineer> hmm - Planet Gnome reports from Mathew Garrett "Linux Foundation Secure Boot support released"
<SuperEngineer> [along acknowledgement with Shim of course] http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/23113.html
<SuperEngineer> *along with acknowledgement
<penguin42> aaronr: Huh ok, I'd have thought having zillions of file descriptors was even less likely in that case
<aaronr> Yeah, it's very strange.
<popey> \o/ HNY
<aaronr> just skimming the munin graphs there, nothing hugely weird really, except for high CPU while a apache process was stuck. (had to kill a process, "service apache2 stop" wouldn't make it go away)
<aaronr> an*
<SuperEngineer> popey: æ°å¹´å¥½
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<redtape-renegade> Come at me Bro !!                            https://twitter.com/tonywhitmore/status/300611369118621696/photo/1
<popey> that would be my son with a lightsaber
<redtape-renegade> popey; æ°å¹´å¿«ä¹å¤©ç©º
<popey> i dont think sky can read that âº
<redtape-renegade> Is she still trying to talk 'butterfly' to the butterfly.s on Nat. Geographic channel  ??
<redtape-renegade> popey: https://plus.google.com/109365858706205035322/posts/WAw21rqFG3r
<popey> he doesn't watch a lot of telly
<popey> spends more time attacking the other cat
<redtape-renegade> meow ..
<redtape-renegade> * mao mao (!!)
<aaronr> penguin42: not really sure how to reproduce this bug on another system. gave up on the cgi idea because that ran in its own process, so wrote a php script that opens 2000 files for writing in /tmp then called it from a bunch of tabs (some tabs over SSL, some not), but it's not falling over. weird.
<aaronr> well, good that it's not falling over, but not good that i can't reproduce it.
<kvarley> I've made a hotspot on ubuntu running on my laptop but my wii u won't connect to it, any ideas?
<penguin42> aaronr: nod; yeh it can be a bit tricky
<zleap> where is the xorg.conf file in ubuntu?
<penguin42> there normally isn't one
<bigcalm> SQL question if anybody can help :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/1634095/
<penguin42> zleap: There are a series of parts in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d
<zleap> ok thanks
<penguin42> zleap: If you create an /etc/X11/xorg.conf I think it will be read
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so is this just ubuntu or the new way of doing stuff
<penguin42> I think it's general - X figures out most of what it needs at runtime
<zleap> ok
<penguin42> zleap: I think Nvidia and other closed drivers might create one
<penguin42> zleap: Fixed config files don't make that much sense these days when people come along and hot plug another mouse/graphics pad/monitor
<zleap> good point
<zleap> i amk asking for someone else but will pass this on
<jacobw> nvidia-xconfig creates one
<ali1234> AlanBell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/826059
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 826059 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity gets stuck in 'expose' mode when you drag an icon over a launcher icon and hold it there" [Low,Fix released]
<redtape-renegade> Qu. How do I find out what version of Gnome Mplayer that I am using ??
<popey> redtape-renegade: apt-cache policy <packagename>
<redtape-renegade> popey, Thanx, but I really want to find the log of changes to the package of " gnome-mplayer " .. Where do I find that ?
<popey> zcat /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/changelog.Debian.gz | more
<Daviey> or, less /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/changelog.Debian.gz .. :)
<Daviey> (when less is more :P)
<redtape-renegade> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1634345/   Got it !
<popey> yay
<popey> didnt know less did auto uncompression
<popey> handy
<mgdm> yeah - it used to be you had less and zless, but these days it autodetects it
<redtape-renegade> popey, I may be feeling extra *thick* today but where can I get the gnome player configuration panel, then ?
<redtape-renegade> http://i1-linux.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/GNOME-Mplayer_1.png
<popey> no idea, never used it
<popey> maybe install mplayer-gui
<popey> and open it
<penguin42> popey: I'm curious; are you going to add some monitoring/control from an ubuntu phone for your house?
<popey> penguin42: nope
<czajkowski> hmmm I have two U1 cloud icons since upgrading to raring
<czajkowski> I know one I added via a ppa but cant seem to work out how to remove it
<czajkowski> the other is new
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski: How did vegas and smash go ??? I dunno 'cos I'm not allowed a TV lic.
<redtape-renegade> Anyone else into 'Veghas' and 'Smash' the tele programs ?
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, that looks similar to bug 1121045 certainly, but is fix released
<lubotu3> bug 1121045 in Unity "launcher - drag and drop of gedit text windows leaves launcher in drop state" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1121045
<AlanBell> no, not the same
 * redtape-renegade hears the drip, drip of Ubuntu TV .. :: http://youtu.be/HHNe7QMWZ8Q?t=43m59s
<Azelphur> redtape-renegade: looks like he's mostly talking about mythtv o.O
<AlanBell> as far as I know we still don't know what ubuntu tv is, if anything. It might well be mythtv based with unity 2d/QML dash like lenses
<Azelphur> I prefer XBMC over MythTV - having tried both
<Azelphur> the usability in XBMC is far better.
 * dwatkins agrees with Azelphur 
<Azelphur> the mythtv people all seem to hate on xbmc but I'm not really sure why
<Azelphur> the only thing I dislike about xbmc is it doesn't do so well with multiple frontends.
<Azelphur> it'd be nice if it "just worked(tm)" like mythtv frontends do.
<redtape-renegade> Domain name:
<redtape-renegade>         libre.org.uk
<redtape-renegade>     Registrant:
<redtape-renegade>         David Herbert
<redtape-renegade>     Registrant type:
<redtape-renegade>         UK Individual
<redtape-renegade>     Registrant's address:
<redtape-renegade>         80b Coopersale Road
<AlanBell> I figured they were going to pick either xbmc or mythtv, develop a unity theme/skin for it with dash and launcher
<redtape-renegade>         Hackney
<redtape-renegade>         London
<Azelphur> o.O
<redtape-renegade>         E9 6BA
<redtape-renegade>         United Kingdom
<redtape-renegade> How did that happen ?
<dwatkins> O.o
<Azelphur> sounds like a case of the accidental right click
<AlanBell> all done?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: sounds like it
<Azelphur> :P
<redtape-renegade> Crumms.. WTH happened there ...
 * penguin42 locks ICBMs to address
<dwatkins> your paste buffer ;)
<AlanBell> now, where was I?
<redtape-renegade> bedington.
<AlanBell> I figured they were going to pick either xbmc or mythtv, develop a unity theme/skin for it with dash and launcher
<AlanBell> then get a set top box
<AlanBell> and sell them. Simples
<redtape-renegade> Yeah, Acer RL70's wasn't it ?
<redtape-renegade> RL80's are evils
<AlanBell> well I was expecting them to do an Ubuntu branded ARM set top box
<AlanBell> but I think they want a big OEM to pay them to do the development work on a box and for the OEM to sell it under their own brand
<AlanBell> same for the phone
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: As Far As mythTV on-a-box . http://goo.gl/aBQ5k  This is what Mr Mills was looking for ...
<AlanBell> yeah, that is atom based though
<redtape-renegade> What chip would you want to use ?
<AlanBell> ARM probably, easier to go fanless
<redtape-renegade> Are they as powerfull, generally ?
<shauno> does it really need to be powerful for a myth box?
<AlanBell> they have a different performance profile, but can be quite good at graphics
<AlanBell> for a myth front end, possibly not very
<AlanBell> XBMC works fine on a raspberry pi
<AlanBell> and that isn't a fast ARM chip at all
<shauno> playback's fine for me, but the UI is sluggish.  but this is the 256MB model.  and this is a system where $ is the design consideration
<AlanBell> single core, old instruction set
<redtape-renegade> I see, I see ...
<shauno> the current (and previous) generations of appletv are ARM based, and they batter on quite well
<penguin42> AlanBell: That's using the Pi's MPEG decode hardware?
<AlanBell> dunno, I haven't really used it for anything, just clicked around the UI and looked at the weather forecast, but I have heard that people have watched HD content on it
<redtape-renegade> HTPC/raspberryPi/appletv  +UbuntuTV    ..it's rare to 'ave a h-ware chat on here ..
 * redtape-renegade notes the 2014 ETA ... (!!)
<shauno> playback was acceptable on my pi, and I haven't paid for the license for the hardware decoder.  but that does tend to be the key in these things.  not the processor, but offloading encoding & decoding
<AlanBell> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=marzicarrots&oq=marzicarrots&aqs=chrome.0.57.639&sourceid=chrome&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&safe=off&client=ubuntu&hs=uPN&tbo=d&channel=cs&sclient=psy-ab&q=marzicarrot&oq=marzicarrot&gs_l=serp.3...15300.15300.0.15603.1.1.0.0.0.0.75.75.1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.2.serp.wm1LieWVESY&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42080656,d.d2k&fp=24765f2b440513fd&biw=1920&bih=990
<redtape-renegade> Joseph Mills only mentioned 4 other lead dev's inn the video (I typed them down) .. Is this typical of -Canonical only to leave the Ubi-platform direction Ubuntu is taking, to less than the No. of fingers on my hand ??
<shauno> that's not unusual.  overmanned can be more crippling than undermanned
<AlanBell> if they have an OEM partner they might put more resources to it I guess
<ali1234> AlanBell: the bug i linked was fixed, but nobody knew how or why
<AlanBell> yeah, I read the comments
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: UbuntuTV OEM Partner ...  Take your pic http://goo.gl/rqCpm
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-03
<shauno> ah the age-old problem .. of trying to delete 32,000 files without bash whining
<daftykins> wow freenode is having issues.
<shauno> it's the owls.  they're too much
<shauno> either that, or it's trying to remind us to go to bed
<daftykins> shauno: it'll never take me to sleep! 8D
<shauno> there's no point being grumpy about it.  it's time to give the internet to the australians.  let someone else have a turn
<diddledan> netsplit fun
<diddledan> yeys
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> it's actually not fun
<daftykins> at all
<shauno> I basically hate audio right now
<shauno> I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, but it's keeping my laptop warm :)
<daftykins> hehe
<shauno> really.  it's been running for 35 minutes now.  3GB of ram, still pegging a whole core, still no idea if it's even working
<daftykins> are you sure it's not just what's owning freenode? ;)
<diddledan> shauno: what you up to?
<diddledan> or rather what do you hope you're up to?
<daftykins> he's replacing James Earl Jones' voice with his in Star Wars
<diddledan> I'm messing with C and C++ code right now
<diddledan> not quite ready to reveal all yet tho
<shauno> I honestly have no idea.  all the examples I can find are 'load a wav in, mumble some jumbo about fft's, et voila, a graph".  I can't find anything about stepping through it bit by bit yet
<shauno> but I'm running one of the examples I found, and listening to my fan go up, and down, and up, and down
<daftykins> dem fast fourier transforms
<diddledan> much better than the slow ones
<shauno> I've tried reading, but I still don't understand what they even do.
<shauno> granted 2am's probably not the best time to find out
<daftykins> i was under the impression they're mathematical functions that mp3 uses to represent the more complex wave form in audio, in a smaller storage size
<shauno> I think I'm going to head to bed and leave it to it.  I've checked it's running as x86_64, so I don't have to worry that it's getting awkwardly close to 4GB
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> nn sir o/
<shauno> although last time I left something as "hah, I have all the ram in the world", i woke up to find it'd gnoe 400GB into swap and fallen over.  oh well
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> I Think that was my mineraft/mc2obj/blender experiment
<shauno> anyway, 'night
<SuperMatt> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey everyone
<brobostigon> morning diplo and knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> hey diplo
<diplo> Freenode isn't doing so well this morning :/
<DJones> Ewwww....https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/q75/s720x720/1016386_10152585677187786_1285559473_n.jpg
<diplo> hah DJones, saw that a few days ago :)
<DJones> diplo: It really isn't what you want to know
<diplo> heh, but its been cleaned properly!
<diplo> :p
<DJones> I can think of a few people I would nominate for the job though
<diplo> :)
* pratchett.freenode.net changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | IRC stats: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | next meeting TBA | ubuntuî¿
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah we have some stuff we need to do tonight so I need to be away an hour earlier
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> davmor2: are you content with intel graphics or are you itching to make use of the nvidia chip in your laptop?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I was going to catch up with tseliot in a minute and find out if this is an update that fixes optimus and install it
<bigcalm> Oh what fun
<Myrtti> it is to ride in a one horse netsplit?
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> Is it possible to search git commit logs for branch merges?
<nigelb> bigcalm: see if git log --merges help?
<bigcalm> Ta
<nigelb> :)
<bigcalm> Quite surprised that nobody has mocked me for this yet: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/429997760910082048/photo/1
<davmor2> bigcalm: a piece of pipe insulation might look better :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: working with what I have to hand. That might work though
<bigcalm> davmor2: apparently the padding will break in over time
<davmor2> bigcalm: that or you head breaks in to the headphones :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: my previous cans gave me a groove in my hair
<bigcalm> I expect something similar from these
<davmor2> bigcalm: I've never really suffered from that issue :)
<foobarry> bigcalm: http://www.thomann.de/gb/beyerdynamic_dt_100_kopfgurt.htm
<foobarry> if that fits, its way comfy
<bigcalm> davmor2: I am cursed with a thick and full head of hair
<bigcalm> foobarry: interesting
<foobarry> i have the same problem
<foobarry> but noticed the beyer ones are removable
<foobarry> and are lush
<bigcalm> I just spent 65 quid on this Logitech G430 headset
<foobarry> i got some sennheisers that cause me pain
<foobarry> on the top of my swede
<bigcalm> This was to replace my Sennheisers that squeezed my skull
<bigcalm> So I've just moved the pain from the sides to the top of my head
<bigcalm> HD 280 pro they were
<davmor2> I got a real cheap pair from makro they just work :D
<davmor2> they also make you look like a cyberman so win win as far as I am concerned
<bigcalm> HEh
<bigcalm> Is there a usb-ethernet port that works with mobile phones?
<bigcalm> I've realised that my new managed switch doesn't have a USB port, so I can't share my 3G connection with the network when cable goes down
<bigcalm> Will have to keep the WNDR3700 around in case of cable going away
<neuro> bigcalm: why would you put a 3g modem on a switch?
<neuro> router, shurely?
<bigcalm> neuro: it's a Netgear FVS318N
<bigcalm> neuro: router/switch
<davmor2> bigcalm: on your laptop try the following, sudo apt-get install nvidia-331 nvidia-prime if it doesn't work for you just remove those 2 again
<bigcalm> Ta
<davmor2> bigcalm: seems to be working here
<bigcalm> For my reference: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6866907/
<bigcalm> davmor2: the machine booted. A good start. How do I see what's being used?
<davmor2> bigcalm: play a game wait for the fan to kick in you know nvidia is being used
<davmor2> bigcalm: the intel chip has no fan :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I was getting the fan in use when playing minecraft
<bigcalm> Maybe it'll sound different
<bigcalm> God that's noisey
<davmor2> bigcalm: the other thing you can do is look at Nvidia-settings
<davmor2> bigcalm: Prime Profiles is normally set to Nvidia (performance Mode) rather than Intel :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can also keep the settings app open and look at the temp of the card :)
<bigcalm> I'm testing with Papo & Yo
<bigcalm> Running smoothly
<bigcalm> This is going to eat battery I bet
<bigcalm> So when is this going to get back ported to 13.10 so I can use nvidia on my desktop again? :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: hell yes hence being able to drop to intel on a whim
<bigcalm> As long as it's all automatic one doesn't have to specify with applications should be rendered via nvidia (this is what bumblebee did I think?)
<davmor2> bigcalm: yes it's like the cpu indicator modes for saving power on your cpu by switching to power saving mode you can get another 30+ minutes from the laptop as it only uses the cores it needs rather than available
<bigcalm> The battery life in my new laptop is rather nice. Looking forward to bringing it to the LUG on Wednesday
<bigcalm> davmor2: any word on Ron? I notice a lack of 'LIST' email, but it could be a bit early on a Monday for that
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think he had some test he needed to go for so I might ring up at Lunch and see what is happening.  I can always send out the list and update the site if I can remember my creds :)
<bigcalm> Good luck :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: the other thing you might want to do that will help with the settings is sudo vim /etc/init/nvidia-persistenced.conf and add to the end of the exec line "--persistence-mode" minus the quotes
<bigcalm> davmor2: okay, what will that do?
<davmor2> bigcalm: helps with the settings being stored and brute forces xorg to accept them
<bigcalm> Okay
<jussi> dammit. people I need are on the wrong side of the netsplit :/
<davmor2> jussi: I bet they aren't
<jussi> davmor2: now they arent, but before...
<davmor2> jussi: no that you on the wrong side of the net split everyone else was here honest ;)
<jussi> pfft
<jussi> davmor2: fix my computer :P
 * davmor2 sends lighting bolt to jussi's computer waits for jussi's weeping to start
<jussi> hehe
<davmor2> jussi: fixed beyond repair you now need a new pc end of broken one, what a fix hey :)
<jussi> davmor2: actually would be nice :P
<jussi> a new work pc would actually be wonderful
<jussi> AlanBell_:  are you present?
<davmor2> jussi: only if you wrap him and tie a bow about him, otherwise he is a person ;)
<jussi> hehe
<Myrtti> whichever side of the split still has services wins, even if they're not responsive
<SuperMatt> wesome
<SuperMatt> wrong window... somehow
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: ESC + a = go to window with most important activity
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: which is here (of course ;))
<brobostigon-quas> cool, they have finally added 'google now' into chrome for linux.
<SuperMatt> I didn't know that
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon-quas: only in the beta right?
<brobostigon-quas> Version 34.0.1809.0 dev aura
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon-quas: dev even. Hardcore ;)
<brobostigon-quas> :)
<MartijnVdS> For everyone who finds nginx too big/cumbersome: https://github.com/nemasu/asmttpd
<hamitron> MartijnVdS, how fast? ;)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: I have no idea, but it's asm ;)
<hamitron> I remember one I coded in C served 328 times as many pages as apache
<hamitron> static pages that was.... dynamic pages were actually even faster
<MartijnVdS> but apache probably has more options ;)
<hamitron> sure
<hamitron> I built it for hosting mmo web based games
<hamitron> pain in the arse to implement ofc
<mapps> hmm irc.freenode.net wasn resolving for me
<shauno> it's probably better that way.  being connected has been even less fun
<shauno> (out of curiousity, irc. nxdomain's here, but chat.f.n is fine)
<nigelb> mapps: yeah, there was a DDoS against freenode.
<cocoa117> does online storage service like dropbox or google drive provide a way for me to check upload file's digsignure? e.g. md5 or sha1?
<cocoa117> i want to be sure my backup file uploaded to the cloud is indeed correct file, not the corrupted one
<mapps> ahh really
<mapps> ho silly
<awilkins> cocoa117, Dropbox stores files keyed on SHA1 but I'm not sure you can access this information since some git exploited it to make Dropbox into a file-sharing site and they locked things down
<awilkins> cocoa117, Since it uses the hashes to determine whether it got the file uploaded, and which chunks of it need resyncing, I think it's pretty reliable
<awilkins> Best test is probably to sha1sum the file on another machine and see if it matches
<cocoa117> awilkins, enn, i am talking about over 132G file family photo, video, personal files. even the each file is split in 200MB in size, it's bit hard work to upload them and then download again to verify
<cocoa117> awilkins, even i am running on fibre
<awilkins> cocoa117, Dropbox does P2P syncing
<awilkins> cocoa117, So if you have two boxes on the same network it will use the local link - all the other box gets from the server is the file catalog
<cocoa117> awilkins, ohhh, i see what you mean by P2P syncing
<cocoa117> awilkins, i assume the file catalog from the server will contain digital sigure of the file i uploaded, and dropbox will check internally if file is corrupted?
<Myrtti> ok, I've seen it all now.
<Myrtti> Lidl Finland is selling a TV simulator.
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: TV simulator?! how would that owrk?
<Myrtti> "12 LED's simulating the light emitted by a TV"
<Myrtti> "for keeping burglars away"
<MartijnVdS> ,,,
<diddledan> Myrtti: yeah I saw one of those in an email advert mailshot (that I subscribed to years ago and can't get around to cancelling :-p)
<shauno> ali1234: re: yesterday's convo of parsing wefax with python.  I think you underestimated how bad I am at python.  after 24 hours, I can now produce http://cl.ly/image/2w0N3e3N2Z2A  (vs audacity's http://cl.ly/image/102K2L182h0q )
<daftykins> wouldn't a burglar just listen for it also emitting noise? :P
<diddledan> shauno: I prefer audacity's :-p
<diddledan> daftykins: perhaps you should have one of these lights and leave the radio playing?
<ali1234> shauno: what is that
<daftykins> hahaha
<ali1234> you need to get the pixels...
<diddledan> ALL TEH PIXELS
<shauno> the pixels are derrived from fsk .. I'm slowly getting closer to putting the sample frequencies into bins to figure out which colour goes in each pixel
<shauno> verrry slowly
<ali1234> run it through a FFT with scipy?
<shauno> that's where I've been going nuts.  everything I can find reads in the whole sample, and tries to spit out a frequency.  I need discrete frequencies over time
<shauno> which I now have, hence my happy dance
<diddledan> shauno: can you video your happy-dance and youtube it please?
<diddledan> shauno: http://nerdfighteria.info/video/54/dxYNUu_2egM
<shauno> diddledan: remind me to find your remote
<bigcalm> davmor2: ping
<davmor2> bigcalm: lo
<bigcalm> davmor2: you told me how to get nvidia working before. Did you try it yourself?
<daftykins> someone in another channel is tempting me by the idea of buying an AMD graphics card and getting in on this mining malarkey too =/
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap running on my system now
<bigcalm> davmor2: have you used susspend/resume?
<bigcalm> davmor2: if not, don't :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: my laptop no longer resumes from sleeping. Instead the screen looks like snow from a TV but in colour
<bigcalm> davmor2: I can log a bug, but I don't know who/what with
<bigcalm> davmor2: Installing those 2 packages before installed more: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6866907/
<AlanBell_> afternoon all
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> hrmm, i already own a computer that runs 24x7, i wonder how practical buying an AMD 290X would be to mine something on it (:
<daftykins> seems a bit of a crazy fad in so many ways
<daftykins> where's Azelphur when you need him ^_^
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm assuming xorg is your target app
<ali1234> daftykins: you would make about $2-4 per day after electricity costs
<daftykins> ali1234: mmm, probably not too great then
<daftykins> would you do it? :)
<ali1234> you're unlikely to make ROI
<daftykins> yeah
<ali1234> i am doing it, but i already paid off my hardware costs
<daftykins> seems too much of a gamble really
<ali1234> it only makes sense if you think the coin price will rise in the future
<daftykins> well, a single R290 for Â£240 doesn't seem too big a deal?
<ali1234> and if you think that you;re better off just buying coins
<ali1234> well you're looking at 100 days to ROI
<ali1234> difficulty will be higher
<daftykins> true
<ali1234> the question is, will the coin price increase too?
<daftykins> yeah, perhaps my initial thought that it's too late to get into was correct
<ali1234> as i said, if yout hink it will, just buy some coins
<ali1234> there is more to it than that
<ali1234> currently you don't GPU mine bitcoins at all
<ali1234> it's not even at all profitable to do that if you pay for electricity
<ali1234> instead you would mine altcoins and sell them for bitcoins
<ali1234> now that is a really big gamble
<ali1234> because you never know if an altcoin will die after 1 day
<daftykins> this guy in the other chan is on doge
<ali1234> if you are on the ball and you know a lot about the tech, you can pick the better ones and make a profit, but it's a lot of work
<ali1234> i mine on a pool that automatically picks the best coin and then sells it and pays out in bitcoin
<ali1234> so i don't have to worry about it, but this is less profitable than doing the work yourself, and the pool owner might be skimming
<daftykins> ah-har
<ali1234> this is where the 2-4$ number comes from too
<daftykins> and that's best-case?
<ali1234> if you pick the right altcoin and you mine it from the very second it launches, you can make $100 in 1 day, if you get lucky
<ali1234> but there's so many altcoins launching every day now, this cannot contnue
<ali1234> you have to watch the forum like crazy, get the source, check it for exploits, compie it, and get it mining on a fast network connection inside half an hour
<ali1234> if you don't have time for that (and who does) then $2-4 is best case, yes
<ali1234> on the other hand, it's always been this way
<ali1234> ever since the 2011 bubble, instantaneous mining profitability has never been over a couple dollars per day
<ali1234> not for more than a week at a time anyway
<ali1234> you shouldn't really take anyone's word for anything when it comes to bitcoin - and the beautiful thing about it is you don't have to
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i think given electricity is more expensive over here too, it's probably a waste of time
<ali1234> my numbers are based on 20p/kWh
<daftykins> ah
<ali1234> the 290X might be more or less efficient than my 5870 though
<ali1234> i mean obviously it will have better hash rate, but it will use more power too
<daftykins> yeah just looking up a review of how much power it pulls
<daftykins> at idle its' 80W consumption would double my file servers draw XD
<ali1234> also tweaking it for max efficiency is something you'll need to spend a couple of weeks on
<daftykins> looks to be about 400W load
<ali1234> that's about 4x what the 5870 uses, and it has about 4x the hash rate
<daftykins> so that'd multiply my servers consumption by 6
<ali1234> so pretty much what i expected
<daftykins> what would you do if you were a beginner as i am, right now? :)
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> there's no way i would have left it this long :P
<DJones> daftykins: That sounds lile a "give Â£1000 to ali1234 and forget about it"
<DJones> s/lile/like
<daftykins> heh, yeah i never bothered looking into it though
<ali1234> i would consider whether you have any other use for a GPU
<ali1234> you may need a power supply upgrade too
<daftykins> not especially, already got an older 560Ti in my desktop
<daftykins> nope running pretty nice PSUs
<daftykins> 750W Corsairs, gold i think
<DJones> I was reading about one of the dedicated mining rigs thats just been released costing $6,000, said it was underpowered from advertised, late, manufacturer was offering free upgrades but would return investment in 3 weeks
<daftykins> yeah i think i read about that
<DJones> Plus used as much alectricity as a 2Kw fan heater
<ali1234> so 2Kw then?
<daftykins> lol
<DJones> ali1234: Let me find the link, think it was from el reg
<ali1234> the thing about mining ASICs is that you have to get in line if you want one
<ali1234> people who are receiving them now ordered them like a year ago
<DJones> That sounds like what I'd read
<ali1234> buy now, and by the time you get it, difficulty will be so high that you'll never make ROI
<ali1234> also half the companies never deliver at all and just go bust/steal your money
<DJones> This is the one http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/03/cointerra_ships_bitcoin_miners/
<ali1234> i would not buy an ASIC at this time, except maybe a block eruptor just for lolz
<ali1234> order now and you'll be in the "May" batch
<DJones> ali1234: Is there much point now even buying a good graphics card and starting mining, or to use the expession, has the horse bolted
<ali1234> see above
<ali1234> it is largely a gamble
 * DJones reads scrollback and sees the answer not really
<ali1234> if you buy the GPU at least you have a GPU
<ali1234> if you just buy the coins you can end up with nothing
<daftykins> DJones: i'm thinking it's probably not wise - but then for only Â£250, you can always sell the card later
<DJones> daftykins: Yeah, for me, I'd need motherboard, memory, processor etc, all the desktops I've got here are at least 8 years old, AGP 4X at best for graphics
<daftykins> >_<
<shauno> okay, I'll admit I'm stumped.  120 lines per minute is 2 lines per second.  11025 samples per second is 5512 samples per line.  the only way I can make 1800 pixels wide is 3 samples per pixel, and it doesn't seem to be possible to derive a frequency from 3 samples
<MartijnVdS> shauno: why not?
<shauno> I have no idea, but I get divide by zero and 'NaN' if I go below 40
<shauno> and some of these are pages of text up to 94 characters wide; 138 pixels per line ain't gonna work
<ali1234> you have to subsample it...
<ali1234> also you have to oversample the original signal
<foobarry> can i unlock a phone which is locked to tesco mobile>
<foobarry> ?
<shauno> I'm suspecting throwing fft's in bins isn't the right way to do this
<ali1234> what do you have for a raw signal?
<shauno> at the moment, 60 seconds recorded off the radio, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 11025 Hz
<ali1234> well 11025 Hz isn't going to cut it if that is the FM modulated signal
<MartijnVdS> yay nyquist
<ali1234> is that IQ or is it already demodulated?
<shauno> demodulated
<ali1234> but it's still just two tones, effectively?
<shauno> right
<ali1234> can you upload it?
<shauno> http://lab.oneil.me.uk/hffax/test.wav  (and .py is my ugly work so far)
<ali1234> is it signed or unsigned?
<shauno> was actually just looking at that, the arrays don't need to be floats anymore
<foobarry> phone question, just bought a moto G, it doesn't come with a charger, will my old htc desire plug charger work, or do i need a higher power rated charger?
<dwatkins> foobarry: what's the max output from the desire's charger?
<dwatkins> "Any Motorola charger with the correct micro-USB tip will charge your Moto G. You will see the best results when the output of the charger is between 500 mA and 1.5 A"
<foobarry> output 5V=1A
<foobarry> \o/
<foobarry> i think we're good
<foobarry> thanks dwatkins
<dwatkins> no worries
<foobarry> checked my touchpad charger and its 2A :-o
<dwatkins> yeah, I think my iPad ones are the same rating, handy for quickly charging a phone, too
<MartijnVdS> only if the phone supports it
<MartijnVdS> good thing devices don't pull more amps than they support, even if the charger supports (a lot) more
<foobarry> so the touchpad one is variable i assume
<foobarry> electricity is confusing
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: they are all variable.. the rating on the thing is the maximum
<foobarry> thanks chaps. we don't need a charger
<MartijnVdS> yay EU :)
<foobarry> wifey excited for her phone
<foobarry> if you buy from fr/de you get the charge
<MartijnVdS> not always
<MartijnVdS> my Nexus 5 came without charger
<foobarry> from the uk they pretend you get 1yr warrantym but EU gives two
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: in that case, EU wins. Go EU ;)
<foobarry> almost worth the gazillion Â£ we pay each year
<foobarry> "swallowed by a sinkhole" on bbc2
<brobostigon> any phone should be unlockable.
<brobostigon> any phone should be unlockable.
<brobostigon> sorry,
<ali1234> shauno: i don't understand why it's so wiggly
<shauno> the audio?  I'm working on trying to capture a better sample this evening
<diddledan> wiggly? you should see his shelving that he DIY'd
<ali1234> i'm playing with fldigi at the moment. trying to understand what the data format is really like
<shauno> ah, yeah in which case that's a particularly bad sample.  it's literally just 60 seconds shaved off the end of my last capture, because some of the examples I was playing with last night took hours to run against a 25-minute capture
<ali1234> it shouldn't wiggle though!
<shauno> right.  half a second should be half a second anywhere
<ali1234> the wiggle always seems to be 1-2 px per line
<ali1234> are there any "good" example recordings online or something?
<shauno> http://www.rtl-sdr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/WeatherFaxAudio.ogg  is pretty clean (but inverted)
<ali1234> fldigi can't open that
 * diddledan watching ch5 - the great british benefits row (live)
<shauno> ah I have my audio looped back, so fldigi thinks everything's live off the air
<ali1234> yeah i want to eliminate any possible hardware errors
<ali1234> for reference, how do i loop it back?
<ali1234> pulseaudio?
<shauno> no idea, I'm on osx  (And I'm just using a cable plugged into both ports :)
<shauno> since the mac has line-level input instead of mic-level, it works pretty well (for this, and nothing else)
<shauno> I can't actually find where I'd open a recording in fldigi.  fun
<ali1234> file->audio->playback
<shauno> ahhhh.  having a tick-box on it misled me there
<ali1234> apparently my microphone is near enough to the speakers to pick up the sound
<ali1234> that ogg file is nowhere near a full picture though
<shauno> this looks pretty good; http://www.svfreya.ca/wefax/48HrWindWave_Valid201302011200.wav
<shauno> 13meg or so, but it's a complete tranmission
<shauno> including all the phasing pre-amble, which is visible/decoded if you tick 'non-stop' in the wefax options
<ali1234> so do you get a "straight" image with non-stop mode?
<ali1234> or is it wavy?
<shauno> it's about the same
<shauno> it's only really interesting because that way I can see the 'header' which is meant to define the timing
<shauno> otherwise fldigi tries to snip it to the beginning/end of the actual image
<ali1234> this signal is much stronger
<shauno> everything's bigger in 'murka :)
<shauno> it's still skewing quite heavily for me though.  even though I note they have a solid edge to key off
<shauno> rather than the black/white board the european stations use.  a solid edge would make things much easier later on
<ali1234> well, i opened the wav file in playback mode, and it doesn't skew
<ali1234> even in non-stop mode, there is a small bit of skew, but it is constant
<ali1234> which is what i'd expect
<shauno> mine's skewing but it's fairly constant
<ali1234> it's absolutely constant here
<shauno> eg, the straight lines are straight, they're just not the right straight
<shauno> but such that I could fix it in the gimp in 2 seconds, rather than .. what I"ve been receiving
<ali1234> sample recording "sounds" very different to yours
<shauno> it sounds much stronger.  other than that it just sounds like it has a much more pronounced 'tick' because of that heavy black bar
<ali1234> ooo... i just found a meteosat signal on that websdr thingy
<ali1234> and... it's all wavy
<ali1234> shauno: northwood meteosat?
<shauno> yup, same
<ali1234> s/sat/fax/
<shauno> should be 4610 and 8040?
<ali1234> yeah 4610 is where i am at
<shauno> well, sorta; apparently you're meant to tune 1.9 below the published frequency
<ali1234> i'm actually at 4608.58
<shauno> they're the same ones I've been playing with; 4610 & 8040 is GYA (northwood) and 3855, 7780 & 13882 are DDK (pinneberg DE)
<shauno> there's not much between them here, because the german ones run twice the power (20 vs 10kW)
<shauno> ymmv, of course, since the websdr is in holland? so germans with twice the power might be just the ticket
<ali1234> how often do they start up?
<shauno> I'm not entirely sure; I have a schedule, but they give the impression they haven't seen it
<shauno> there's rarely 10 minutes gap between pages during the day, but they're a lot less frequent overnight
<diddledan> pages?
<diddledan> I still have no idea what you're actually doing
<shauno> if it makes you feel any better, neither do I
<shauno> I don't actually have an end-goal here, I'm mostly just annoyed that fldigi can't keep these in sync, and curious to see how it could be done better
<ali1234> i would just fix it after turning it into an image
<shauno> that was my original plan, before someone told me it'd be easier to stuff the original data into scipy ;)
<ali1234> by original data i meant the demodulated black and white pixels
<ali1234> so, after you turn it into an image, but before you turn it into a png :)
<ali1234> but fldigi doesn't seem to be able to give you that
<shauno> well, I'm gonna stick with it for now; I must be learning something, because my head hurts
<diddledan> shauno: sometimes that happens when you bash it against a brick wall repeatedly
<ali1234> hmm there... i've got it going directly from the pulse monitor source now
<ali1234> so i don't have to listen to the crazy squeeks
<shauno> hah, I prefer the crazy squeaks.  I prefer my ears over the waterfall
<diddledan> I'm not sure inlaws are appropriately described as crazy squeaks
<ali1234> both useful, but not when you're just waiting for them to start up the transmission again
<ali1234> also it should give a cleaner signal that the old analogue hole method
<shauno> yeah, I had problems with the washing machine that way, which is why I found a cable
<dogmatic69> does anyone know if -auto-orient adjust the source or target in imagemagic convert command?
<ali1234> right, i'm getting a clean signal through PA null sink, but it's still all wavy
<shauno> perhaps northwood just need some wd40
<ali1234> maybe. this schedule looks actually accurate: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/rfax.pdf
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/290840 is what i just got
<shauno> yeah, that looks familiar
<shauno> it's weird that it doesn't even wrap cleanly; the whole point of the black band at the top is that it should be centered
<ali1234> it does try
<ali1234> it jumps around during receiving
<shauno> that's what I don't get - it shouldn't
<ali1234> i keep missing the start tho
<ali1234> hmm another one is coming in
<ali1234> i got the start, but this one is much more wavey than the last one
<ali1234> and the signal just generally looks worse quality
<shauno> there's not much there to miss.  there's a buzz that's meant to key timing, the black bar to center, and then the horrid scratchy noises
<ali1234> well i was looking around at other freqs :)
<shauno> and then the sweeping tones mark the end
<ali1234> if you miss the start of the tx, you have to click "skip phase" etc
<shauno> the bit that looks like a grayscale bar I guess
<ali1234> hmm yeah that makes sense, the half-second rising tone
<shauno>  Iwonder if there's any chance in hell of me waking up at 7am to find otu if murmansk is reachable
<ali1234> the one that is coming through now actually has ghosting on it
<shauno> northwood again?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> i'm not seeing anything from the others
<diddledan__> what are you using to receive the signal?
<ali1234> and actually i'm only seeing anything from 4608 and not any of the other northwood freqs
<ali1234> diddledan__: http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/
<shauno> if that schedule is right, it seems germany go quiet between 10pm till 0430
<diddledan__> hmm, I'd be wary of that - there's probably no timing synchronisation
<shauno> but if you can see rtty at about 4580, you can receive pinneberg
<diddledan__> hence the wavyness
<ali1234> shauno: is using a real radio tho (i assume)
<ali1234> and has identical wavyness
<shauno> I'm using an rtl-sdr through a weird little hf upconverter I found on ebay
<shauno> it's not great, but I get similar results
<ali1234> hmm
<shauno> (And about 5 meters of speaker cable  lol)
<ali1234> i can see that rtty stuff... signal is pretty good
<ali1234> no idea how to receive tho
<ali1234> hmm does fldigi autosave incoming tx?
<shauno> fldigi should have it for rtty, but you'll have to customize the settings for it; something like http://cl.ly/image/3p0q2d1V0m0m
<ali1234> looks like it does
<shauno> I have mine autosaving images, but I can't remember if that was my idea or not  lol
<ali1234> what would i even see on rtty? plain text?
<shauno> yeah
<ali1234> but, like, human language? or weird computer data?
<shauno> radio-tty; just what it sounds like
<shauno> http://youtube.com/watch?v=qUSbOgcmtco
<ali1234> i see
<shauno> especially for maritime weather, there seems to be a lot of systems in daily use that you'd have assumed died 50 years ago
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-04
<shauno> I mean, weatherfax started during ww2.  which is why the 'protocol' seems mindbending.  it's meant to make perfect sense if your drum is the same size/speed as the senders'
<shauno> eg, the buzz at the start is a tuning guide.  you have one lamp matched to white, one matched to black, and if you're tuned correctly they'll be flickering with equal brightness during that phase
<shauno> you'll see that if the frequency drifts .. it doesn't cause these demon curves.  it just makes the image too white/dark
<shauno> if it was just the rtl-sdr having terrible frequency control .. well that wouldn't be news
<ali1234> so..... i can't figure out how to get the rtty to fit properly onto the two signals...
<shauno> it's on the tx pane for the rtty controls (I have no idea why)
<shauno> where it has carrier shift, set it to custom and you can dial 450 in the box below
<ali1234> so it is
<shauno> much of the UI boggles me.  it's clearly written by someone who ran out of space for all these buttons many years ago
<ali1234> hmm this almost looks like words now, almost
<ali1234> "SOUTHERLTILU"
<shauno> that's basically as far as I got.  I can't tell the difference between german, and tranmission errors
<ali1234> maybe it's the same problem
<shauno> it's kinda boring though.  they're mostly a nice litmus test for whether you can receive the german stations, since the rtty one never shuts up
<ali1234> annoying that i can't decode it though
<ali1234> the signal looks good and strong
<ali1234> sounds strong too
<ali1234> maybe sound card 11025Hz just isn't good enough
<ali1234> this webpage is probably sending a low quality stream
<shauno> it shouldn't the the quality so much for that, more the timing
<ali1234> well, it's going to get resampled, yeah?
<ali1234> by all the software filters etc
<ali1234> one thing i learned with teletext is that low sample rate can cause problems not just related to sound quality
<ali1234> you can actually "fix" these problems by just resampling the low-sample-rate data to a higher sample rate
<ali1234> it's something to do with the phase difference between samples in and samples out
<ali1234> i don't know the right terminology to explain it
<shauno> I more mean that these are designed to survive shortwave; they're meant to be robust.  but they're also designed to be realtime
<shauno> like more, you can pick out of near nothing sometimes.  as long as there's enough there for fldigi to see it exists, it's fine
<shauno> but if you ruin the timing (rtl-sdr dropping samples because you set it higher than it can squeeze them down usb, etc), it's gone.  the data's in the timing, not the signal
<ali1234> right but this is a digital radio... it's going to resample to whatever rate its filters expect... depending on how it does it, it can mess up the timing
<ali1234> teletext is very similar, it's all in the timing
<ali1234> if you do a linear resample from say 11025 to 16000 - timing will get ruined. but if you go 11025 -> 44100 -> 16000 it will be fine
<ali1234> or at least better
<shauno> I think I have a terrible distraction for tomorrow; a wefax received for the amiga.  I'm curious to see how it holds up
<shauno> receiver, rather (just something of aminet, we'll see)
<daftykins> wefax - not fax related surely? :)
<shauno> ;)
<daftykins> that ghetto tech
<shauno> unfortunately it's not the same standard they use on phone lines (a much older variant), else I'd just be robbing spare hardware
<daftykins> ah-har
<shauno> although it would be hilarious if you could just wire a radio to one of these multi-thingie printers and go with it
<shauno> anyway.  time for bed said zebedee
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i think it's about that time indeed
<daftykins> ta-ra \o
<jussi> coffee is a wonderful thing :)
<nigelb> jussi: tea is even more wonderful :)
<diplo> Morning all
<diddledan__> allo allo
<Guest30957> Good morning all; happy Homemade Soup Day! :-D
<knightwi1e> morning everyon e
<bashrc> morning
<dwatkins> allo
<diddledan__> emscripten is pretty damned awesome
<diddledan__> e.g. glxgears directly recompiled from the original C code: http://people.mozilla.org/~eakhgari/es2gears.html (doesn't seem to work in chrome for me)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * MartijnVdS ordered parts for a Raspberry Pi NTP server
<diddledan__> MartijnVdS: a pi NTP server?
<diddledan__> as in network time protocol?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: yes, using a GPS module
<diddledan__> nice
<diddledan__> I want a gps unit, for something along those lines, too
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Raspberry-Pi-NTP.html#user-mode
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: I'm getting the Adafruit GPS unit + antenna from modmypi (https://www.modmypi.com/adafruit-gps-breakout-board + https://www.modmypi.com/sma-gps-antenna-3-5v-28dB-5m-external-active)
<jussi> diddledan__: works in chromium for me
<bigcalm> Is anybody having trouble with Office 365 this morning?
<dwatkins> seems ok to me, bigcalm
<bigcalm> Grr
<bigcalm> Something wrong with my system then
<jussi> bigcalm: Microsoft has decided they dont like you :P
<bigcalm> jussi: the feeling is mutual
<jussi> hehe
<foobarry> bigcalm: last night yes
<foobarry> there were auth problems
<bigcalm> foobarry: I can't use imap/smtp in thunderbird and webmail isn't working either
<bigcalm> My android phone is working okay with their exchange system though. Silly computers
<foobarry> i recevied a mail at 9:11am
<foobarry> via TB
<bigcalm> I'm getting connection timed out in TB
<bigcalm> And sometimes refused
<bigcalm> foobarry: are you using outlook.office365.com for imap?
<foobarry> not sure
<foobarry> maybe m.outlook.com
<foobarry> a lot of stuff gets obfuscated because we have federated auth
<foobarry> twice as much to go wrong!
<bigcalm> Ah, okay
<bigcalm> Goodness, resizing Rackspace servers takes a while
 * bigcalm blames SuperMatt
<bigcalm> Woo, finally the web mail works - on my laptop
<bashrc> congrats
<bashrc> what sort of webmail is it?
<bigcalm> I was referring to MS's web mail
<bigcalm> Up to that point, I couldn't access my work email from any system other than my phone
<MartijnVdS> Lookout 365
<bigcalm> Hehe
<diddledan__> I hate background processing via cron tasks (drupal) it's gonna take forever to delete all these 1600 posts to be able to remove a plugin
<diddledan__> at least it's not as bad as 170000 like on another site I've had to deal with lately
<diddledan__> of those 170000 which I set running on saturday night it's 22% complete
<bigcalm> outlook.office365.com uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is only valid for the following names: *.opendns.com , opendns.com (Error code: ssl_error_bad_cert_domain)
<bigcalm> This is somewhat worrying
<diddledan__> bigcalm: opendns has blocked it
<bigcalm> It seemed to work on my laptop
<bigcalm> Maybe I should use google's DNS instead
<diddledan__> if you let the certificate pass (just this once) the block page should tell you why it's blocked
<bigcalm> It works in Chromium
<bigcalm> But not in Firefox
<bigcalm> 1 thing I changed yesterday was my router. Now using a Netgear ProSafe FVS318N
<bigcalm> It is possible that I've not correctly configured it somehow
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan__> bigcalm: maybe your IP changed to one that is currently assigned to someone else's OpenDNS account? (try using dynamic dns client to update it or do it manually in your opendns account)
<diddledan__> bigcalm: as I said, the block page should tell you why it's blocked
<diddledan__> or rather not necessarily why but under what category
<diddledan__> "why" is a policy thing that opendns don't get involved in
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/u/0/100585555255542998765/posts/f5TLgHDzhaY \o/
<diddledan__> but the chromecast isn't available in the UK
<diddledan__> (apart from grey imports)
<Myrtti> the app is available in the UK, in comparison to when it wasn't
<Myrtti> so that means that the device is available in UK
<Myrtti> even if by grey imports
<Myrtti> it's even available in Finland, by an actual importer
<Myrtti> since Google doesn't sell any devices directly to Finland
<bigcalm> diddledan__: I don't have an OpenDNS account, I just use their servers :)
<bigcalm> diddledan__: it's now loading in Firefox for me
<diddledan__> bigcalm: then it's likely you're using someone else's settings
<bigcalm> diddledan__: I wasn't aware that one had to have an account
<diddledan__> technically you don't but stale records from other people's accounts may affect you
<bigcalm> My IP address did change last night when I power cycles the cable modem
<bigcalm> TB still doesn't work
<foobarry> WFM
<foobarry> for a change
<foobarry> isn't there a office 365 status page?
<foobarry> or you're sure its opendns issue?
<bigcalm> I don't know if it is an opendns issue or not
<bigcalm> I wonder if the router has a DNS cache I can clear
<MartijnVdS> "power cycle" :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Yeah, that old chestnut
<bigcalm> Can you configure more than one service in ddclient?
<bigcalm> It's currently set-up for joker.com and now I want to add opendns.com
<diddledan__> bigcalm: dnsomatic.com
<diddledan__> it's also run by opendns
<diddledan__> so you can use the same creds for both
<diddledan__> and. *clicks joker.com link* :-p
<diddledan__> well that's a good page :-p
<diddledan__> it seems to be a domain holding page?
<diddledan__> or even a domain sales page
<diddledan__> oic
<diddledan__> dumbass me
<diddledan__> your domain is regged through joker.com! gotchabob
<diddledan__> bigcalm: anyway... ddclient can update as many services as you want: http://blog.sarathonline.com/2010/03/update-multiple-dynamic-dns-servers.html
<bigcalm> diddledan__: yes, I like joker.com :)
<bigcalm> diddledan__: thanks for the link
<bigcalm> I get 50 dyn records per domain name with joker.com
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: it doesn't resize. it creates a new instance and then syncs all your data
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: the web interface says "resize" :P
<SuperMatt> sure, but that's not what it actually does ;)
<SuperMatt> I mean, yeah, you get a resized vm
<SuperMatt> but it's not really the original
<SuperMatt> and please remember, I have *no* control over this. I'm still in training
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: only joshing ya because you work for them
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: in the same way that davmor2 and popey are responsible for all ubuntu weirdness :P
<SuperMatt> of course
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: especially popey_
<jussi> hrm, weird that we have semi official (read: community) builds of ubuntu touch being hosted on random ad ridden file sharing sites... do we not have better places to host them ?
<dwatkins> dare I say it... bittorrent
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: isn't that blocked by your helpful government?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: no, although some sites which index it are ;)
<popey> well..
<popey> these are images made by random community people
<popey> many from the xda world where hosting on odd file sharing sites is common
<MartijnVdS> they should just host it on their U1 ;)
<popey> wakka wakka
<diddledan__> if the source of touch is available on launchpad bzr then the community should do the same by branching it and then canonical could provide them with auto-build services
<diddledan__> or would that be too sensible?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: have you seen the number of custom builds made by xda people?
<diddledan__> MartijnVdS: no
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: For Android ROMs, it's several pages on the forum, so.. a few hundred?
<jussi> popey: it might be a nice idea to have a semi official site where people can host them?  something sanctioned by canonical?
<popey> jussi: not really. we'd have to take responsibility for potentially infringing stuff in their zip files
<jussi> popey: bleh.
<shauno> is that true?  I thought it fell under 'safe harbour' as long as you respond to complaints  (eg, youtube)
<popey> i dont think we want to be in that position
<dwatkins> doesn't Ubuntu One also have the same issue?
<diddledan__> and launchpad
<diddledan__> i.e. ppas
<diddledan__> and the clickstore
<diddledan__> or should that be called the ubuntu software store?
<mapps> hey
<ali1234> shauno: what frequency shift are you using? i just changed it to 750 and iget a much cleaner signal
<shauno> 750 for UK, 850 for germany
<ali1234> it's still waving all over the place though
<ali1234> i still haven't see any german tx
<shauno> yeah, that'll only affect how it plots tones to greyscale
<ali1234> well using too big a shift will let some interference through also
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/290951
<diddledan__> ali1234:that's evil-wonky
<diddledan__> wibble wobble
<MartijnVdS> analyzing satellite images?
<shauno> I wish.  APT carries sync on every line, instead of just dropping some vague hints before the tranmissing
<ali1234> i'm getting something from JMH/Japan
<ali1234> very weak signal but the wobble is identical
<shauno> ali1234: I have a hypothesis but I can't test it yet; what bitrate is the websdr streaming to you at? and what bitrate are they sampling at?
<xalyy> hey
<shauno> I'm wondering if one not being a product of the other would manifest as this; as their samples get further and further away from the nearest neighbour, they swing one way.  and then as they go over the cusp and the nearest neighbour becomes the next neighbour, they drift back again
<shauno> are, what are they streaming at vs what are *you* sampling at, rather
<xalyy> Can somebody help me about installing other os ubuntu on dedicated server? :S
<xalyy> Through KVM
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: do you have a KVM VPS somewhere, or are you running kvm yourself?
<xalyy> No no its dedicated server and KVM I have full managment of it
<shauno> (or do you mean kvm like remote hands / keyboard-video-mouse)
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: in that case, install "libvirt-bin", add yourself to the "libvirt" group, and run virsh or virt-manager (you can run them locally -- though virt-manager would require X on the host), or remotely (if you don't want to install X on the host and walk over every time you want to manage a vm)
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: just select an Ubuntu ISO (server ISO is most useful) in the "New VM" screen, as installation media
<xalyy> Wow :D
<MartijnVdS> <-- just did that this weekend
<xalyy> Wait a second
<xalyy> I explain what I have atm. I have dedicated server with ubuntu 12.04 on it, I installed VNC but I can control the Dedicated through KVM what I downloaded from the Dell Remote Managment Controller of the Dedicated Server. The dell website does not support OS reinstall so I have to install it remotely through SSH and KVM, I wan't to install CentOS
<jpds> You want to reinstall the server remotely?
<xalyy> Yes
<xalyy> Tried many ways... But didn't worked
<jpds> Can you physically go to the server and plug in a server install image?
<xalyy> Not really got a simple guide or a videoguide which explains carefully what have to do
<xalyy> No :S
<jpds> Because there are multiple ways of doing this.
<xalyy> Yes yes I know
<xalyy> But I can't reach the server
<xalyy> Phisically
<xalyy> But I can access the server 100% through online
<jpds> Well, Dell lets you connect an ISO image remotely through a "virtual device".
<xalyy> And how can I do that?
<jpds> xalyy: http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/athena/dept/cron/documentation/dell-server-admin/en/DRAC_5/racugc1b.htm
<xalyy> So I have to log in to the Dell Remote management?
<jpds> Of course.
<xalyy> DRAC 5?
<xalyy> 2. Connect and log into the DRAC 5. See "Accessing the Web-Based Interface for more information".
<jpds> xalyy: Hey, look, this guide even uses CentOS as an example: https://xorl.wordpress.com/2011/07/31/how-to-use-dell-idrac-virtual-media/
<xalyy> Woooow
<xalyy> This Remote management far better what I use ATM
<xalyy> Thats why its not support reinstall
<xalyy> But not sure how can I get this Drac 5 or 6, or can I even get it?
<xalyy> Or upgrade
<jpds> Most modern servers have tools like this.
<jpds> xalyy: That's a question you have to ask Dell.
<xalyy> But is there a way to check this?
<jpds> No idea, usually comes with your server's firmware.
<xalyy> I mean what I have to type in to get to this web management
<xalyy> The IP and port
<jpds> xalyy: Erm, that's configured in the BIOS.
<ali1234> shauno: yes, that's what i was trying to explain last night
<xalyy> But not really sure I mean is it possible there is two management tool installed?
<ali1234> shauno: actually one thing i want to try is both of us capturing the same image, and then compare the skew
<xalyy> Is there an other way to do this all?
<jpds> xalyy: No, I don't think it's possible.
<xalyy> So I have to do it through web
<jpds> xalyy: Why would Dell ship two management tools on a server?
<jpds> xalyy: If you only have one server, yes.
<xalyy> Look: http://gyazo.com/9101eecc849b8809233097bdad16d6c6.png
<xalyy> This is what I use right now
<xalyy> probably older then what you have sent
<jpds> xalyy: Right, scroll down on that page I sent.
<jpds> More than 3/4 of the way.
<jpds> xalyy: You have an older server and thus an older iDRAC.
<xalyy> Yeah
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/c08e06b86991fe6a3ba5d5c559462b00.png
<xalyy> See? :S
<jpds> Yeah, there you go.
<ali1234> shauno: the websdr format appears to be WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 7119 Hz
<shauno> so there's a very strong chance your sample rate isn't a product of that
<ali1234> indeed
<shauno> I'm kinda hamstrung tonight, I forgot to bring my psu home
<ali1234> also that is only like two samples per "pixel"
<xalyy> And now? Not really see Launch Virtual Console
<ali1234> the skew is usually less than one pixel per line, so clock drift can be less than one sample length and still cause this
<jpds> xalyy: On your first screenshot, I see a "Console" tab at the top.
<xalyy> jpds: Probably this nah? http://gyazo.com/531ef70bb356d4534281139bb28a232f.png
<xalyy> It was just an other tab
<jpds> xalyy: Hit it.
<xalyy> :)
<xalyy> Good and Launch VM
<jpds> Attach the ISO on your system to the console, and reboot the box.
<xalyy> Wait so this is does the next: It downloads the iso from my system and uploads to the dedicated and then boot from it?? Right?
<jpds> xalyy: Yep.
<xalyy> Wow :D
<xalyy> Nice
<jpds> So it's going to take a while.
<xalyy> I am uploading with 800 kbps so it will be fast and I am only installing the the 6.5 netinstall
<xalyy> Someone told me that enough
<xalyy> its just 250mb
<jpds> Right.
<jpds> Anyway, you sound good now, good luck.
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/49001fbc76cf00c18b037bd5083b8afb.png
<xalyy> Do I have to map it or just let it uncheck and reboot the server?
<jpds> I would reboot and see what happens.
<xalyy> Ok rebooting
<xalyy> Thanks for helping me :D
<jpds> No worries.
<xalyy> So it have to boot the iso now?
<jpds> You'll have to press F12 or whatever the BIOS says to bring up the boot menu.
<jpds> And try booting off the 'CD'.
<shauno> oh boy, sid meier @ humblebundle.  what could possibly go wrong
<xalyy> Okay
<ali1234> none of the games work on linux
<shauno> that's okay, I have a mac for gaming  *Ducks*
 * jpds shoots shauno's ducks.
<MartijnVdS> jpds: Duck Hunt!
<xalyy> :D
<xalyy> You guys live in Uk? :P
<shauno> mac gaming vs linux gaming is very much .. being proud that you shot your left foot instead of your right
<xalyy> Ohh... Do I have to hold down the F12 because it just booted the gnome interface normally
<xalyy> Twice...
<ali1234> shauno: for a test i played back that example recording through mplayer -> PA -> fldigi
<ali1234> no skewing found
<jpds> xalyy: Actually, you might need to map the device to the virtual CD.
<jpds> Sorry.
<xalyy> Thats why nothing happened? :D
<shauno> I have a feeling my analogue loopback is hurting me, I may be doing 48k vs 44k
<shauno> and then capturing at 11025 which doesn't fit into 48k either
<xalyy> jpds: Nothnig happaned again :S I holded F12 like three minutes
<xalyy> Just booted normally?
<xalyy> Normally*
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/02b570828f725bf832524a43a8cf2e1a.png But it appears on the virtual cd/dvd drive
<xalyy> Not really know whats happening :O
<xalyy> By the way I finded out this is Drac 4
<xalyy> http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/systems-management/w/wiki/3206.updating-drac-firmware.aspx  What you think should I upgrade Drac?
<shauno> I'm not sure I'd dare, personally.  right now you have one hand on the system.  don't let go.
<xalyy> Not really sure but can I even upgrade it?
<shauno> I Think you can only update to minor versions
<shauno> like, from 4.something to 4.newer
<shauno> the DRAC module is actually a whole card; I believe to, eg upgrade to DRAC6, you'd need to go buy a DRAC6 card and swap them out
<xalyy> YESS!!!
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/9ea69b62f79032c72f641494b98bdfe3.png
<MartijnVdS> too bad it's centos :P
<diddledan__> I missed the start of this
<shauno> they've spelt ubuntu all wrong :p
<xalyy> I only need it because it supports OpenVZ :D
<MartijnVdS> isn't LXC the New and Improved replacement of OpenVZ?
<ali1234> stabbing yourself in the leg with a rusty trowel is the new and improved version of openvz
<xalyy> What you mean?
<MartijnVdS> that OpenVZ is a horrible way of "virtualizing" (sysadmin-wise at least, security-wise probably)
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/e6aca9d951026ec42a24a3126bc01583.png
<xalyy> Look
<xalyy> + This http://www.janoszen.com/2013/01/22/lxc-vs-openvz/ I thought OpenVz is still better... :S
<xalyy> Or not?
<MartijnVdS> KVM is still better ;)
<ali1234> it's better if you want to massively oversell your hardware capability
<MartijnVdS> because it actually provides *full* isolation from the host OS (except for a small hypervisor footprint)
<ali1234> eg by saying you sell VPS systems with 128MB, and then limiting them to 5MB of kernel memory and making the rest swap
<xalyy> Yeah
<xalyy> So if I would open up a VPS server host then which would be better?
<MartijnVdS> I'd go with kvm
<ali1234> it depends. do you want to offer customers good service?
<xalyy> Yes :D
<ali1234> or do you want to make as much profit as possible and don't care if the service isn't fit for purpose?
<xalyy> Wait a minute kvm?
<xalyy> KVM Is not this?? http://gyazo.com/139da3945aa8a997abd58940c02b4245.png
<MartijnVdS> no, that's a virtual keyboard/video/mouse :)
<MartijnVdS> KVM = http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Main_Page
<xalyy> Ohh lol
<MartijnVdS> probably with libvirt on top (virsh & friends) for easy management
<xalyy> And how can I get into the KVM web managment lol
<xalyy> I didnt even knew
<xalyy> this
<xalyy> then I spent the whole day with getting the centos installed
<xalyy> for nothing :S
<MartijnVdS> Learning experience ;)
<xalyy> Yeah :D
<MartijnVdS> also, you can host KVM VMs on centos if you want to, I guess
<xalyy> But wait a sec lemme check this before installing centos
<xalyy> So how do I open up the KVM web management
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: no wait, it's a different KVM :)
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: the "kvm" you've been using is just "keyboard, video, mouse" for the machine
<xalyy> ohhhh lol
<xalyy> Okayyyyyyyy :D
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: the KVM I'm talking about is "kernel virtual machine" (I think)
<xalyy> oooooooohh
<shauno> if it's not, it should be
<xalyy> So I have to install centos first right?
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: so you use virt-manager (or similar) to get to the consoles of the VMs
<xalyy> But why of the two software have exact the same name??
<xalyy> To get newbies confused :P?
<diddledan__> your keyboard video mouse is actually a virtual hardware device which was called "keyboard video & mouse" or KVM for short. the kernel virtual machine I presume was sufficiently abstract from a keyboard video and mouse device that they felt the name wouldn't conflict
<diddledan__> the KVM you're using is based on an idea created decades ago
<diddledan__> it ued to be physical switches and knobs (I actually still have and use one here)
<shauno> apparently they aren't, because when he asked how to install over kvm, the other kvm was the first assumption :p
<diddledan__> shauno: indeed
<xalyy> Okay
<diddledan__> I tend to think of KVM the keyboard variety as a physical device and the KVM virtualisation thingy as a software so that tends to help me work out which is which. the problem is when you get people talking about their vKVMs
<xalyy> On KVM I can create linux and windows VPS's right?
<diddledan__> yes
<xalyy> Ok
<diddledan__> openvz would be limited to linux only
<xalyy> Ohh okay :D
<xalyy> Hope this centos install gives a "fresh new" server because I messed up alot of things on the ubuntu today :D
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to make ufraw-batch append something to the output file name?
<dogmatic69> like orig.NEF > orig.something.png
<diddledan__> humble sid meier bungle?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: WHOA
<xalyy> Guys
<xalyy> Just saw there is one more virtualization named XEN
<xalyy> Omg so much to choose...
<xalyy> OpenVZ is out because not support windows but which is better? KVM or XEN?
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: it all depends on what you want.
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: you should probably read up on both, maybe even try both, then decide.
<xalyy> K
<diddledan__> I kinda lean towards xen on the server and kvm on my workstation
<directhex> we run our business on kvm
<directhex> but kvm sucks for windows
<xalyy> Why?
<xalyy> By the way something wrong... http://gyazo.com/c790bd3dd396f870ba6474ff8f07cd88.png :(
<daftykins> wow i was thirsty down at the restaurant i just went to...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zte2aqvtd8j2o0o/IMG_20140204_210015.jpg
<daftykins> ^_^
<diddledan__> xalyy: that generally either means it doesn't have a driver for your network or it's not plugged-in
<xalyy> What do I do?
<diddledan__> plug it in?
<daftykins> kinda funny you asking for CentOS support in an ubuntu channel
<diddledan__> :-p
<xalyy> How I doesn't even know where is this dedicated server located :P
<diddledan__> oic
<diddledan__> it probably is plugged in then
<xalyy> Yes I control it virtually :P
<xalyy> Then if it's plugged in
<xalyy> then what is the problem?
<diddledan__> well technically DRAC is out-of-band on a different network connection
<diddledan__> perhaps your host doesn't have DHCP?
<xalyy> One word, I have to redo everything and download a standalone centos 6.5 64x? and not the netinstall...
<xalyy> Right?
<diddledan__> in which case you'd need to configure the IP address manually
<xalyy> Ohh
<daftykins> xalyy: who is your VPS provider?
<xalyy> Its dedicatedddddddddddddddddddddd I mentioned a hundred times :P
<daftykins> ok, who is your dedi provider?
<daftykins> i find it hard to believe they don't have documentation
<xalyy> Can't tell it to public or they will stop hosting them :S I mean I can't advertise it
<directhex> does centos include firmware?
<xalyy> What you mean
<daftykins> wow it's windy here
<daftykins> seriously howling past my house
<diddledan__> here too
<daftykins> i just watched a local news program from the weekend, the town seafront was a foot underwater this weekend! i didn't even know despite it being about 30m -> that way
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/0a2717d8e51ebe850df3d2ad0609f0e1.png
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> xalyy: yeah so go back through your providers emails and look what IP settings you got given
<daftykins> assuming they email :P
<xalyy> :DD
<xalyy> Got it but what is the nameserver?
<diddledan__> try 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
<daftykins> unless your provider lists one
<xalyy> Also I have two different ipv4 email which do I type in? its just a small difference on the two, the ending is like 130 and 131
<xalyy> On putty I log in with 130 but on the Dell management it says 131
<daftykins> 'on the Dell management' what do you mean?
<daftykins> how do they write them on the email?
<xalyy> DRAC 4
<xalyy> 130
<xalyy> Not really sure which is the ip now...
<xalyy> Omg why is it so complicated
<diddledan__> becasue it's not designed for end users - it's designed to be functional not easy
<xalyy> Yeah
<xalyy> What is this CDI prefix lol...
<xalyy> CIDR*
<diddledan__> aah, that's the subnet mask in "number of bits" format as opposed to dotted-quad
<diddledan__> so 255.255.255.0 would translate to /24
<xalyy> 255.255.255.248
<diddledan__> that's
<diddledan__> 29 I believe
<xalyy> Ok ty
<xalyy> Waiting networkmanager to configure eth0
<xalyy> By the way there was an eth1
<xalyy> Well I think I fucked up something because the KVM is just force closed and the DRAC 4 is now not working
<xalyy> Omgggggg I hang myself
<diddledan__> o_O
<diddledan__> that's .. odd
<xalyy> Now DRAC 4 works but KVM not
<xalyy> Greattt
<diddledan__> perhaps it rebooted?
<xalyy> Yeah
<daftykins> xalyy: please be careful with language in here
<xalyy> Ok sorry
<xalyy> Well kvm is not starting :S
<xalyy> Idk what happened
<xalyy> What can I do now if KVM not starts ? :S
<shauno> the drac kvm or the VM kvm?  hehe
<xalyy> Drac
<xalyy> Cant even connect on putty now
<shauno> I do't mean this to sound rude, but it has to be asked;  what did you do to it?
<shauno> (eg, what's changed)
<xalyy> http://www.if-not-true-then-false.com/2011/centos-6-netinstall-network-installation/
<xalyy> Followed this
<foobarry> 1) you can restart a drac
<xalyy> Then it said network error or what then the guys said here I have to configure network manully
<xalyy> Entered everything then after a few secs everything is force closed
<xalyy> Then drac got restored
<xalyy> But only that works
<shauno> you didn't perchance use the same network details found in the drac console?
<xalyy> Yes I used that
<diddledan__> d'oh
<shauno> I don't believe they can have the same address.  the drac controller is basically another computer.  a smaller, lamer computer with a single function, but still a computer in its own right
<xalyy> Ohhh
<xalyy> Then the Drac 4 have the 131 and the dedicated the 130
<shauno> so giving both the same address is like having two computers on the same LAN with the same address.  either bad things happen, or weird things happen
<xalyy> now its clear
<diddledan__> I think the behaviour is left as undocumented
<diddledan__> implementation-specific
<xalyy> How do I reset it? Or what can I do?
<diddledan__> if you can get a response out of drac then you can reboot, no?
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/71638b245ab89cfbecc887dd97885ba0.png
<xalyy> Yeah
<xalyy> Lol just saw there is reset option
<diddledan__> someone doesn't understand sarcasm: http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=5836293290860765185&gid=42140&commentID=5836492669823496192&trk=view_disc&fromEmail=&ut=1ahwRj7g-QUS41
<diddledan__> (you may not be able to get there if linkedin is being evil)
<popey> wow, people actually do that?
<diddledan__> popey, the php eval(base64 thing?
<diddledan__> yes, I've seen it in the wilds
<popey> no, the link posted in there
<diddledan__> aah ioncube
<diddledan__> yes unfortunately they do
<diddledan__> one user I know of is whmcs
<xalyy> Guys what do you think about bitcoin? :)
<diddledan__> www.whmcs.com
<shauno> people still used linkedin?
<diddledan__> shauno: I don't think anyone has ever used linkedin in earnest
<diddledan__> that is apart from indians
<popey> my boss looked me up on linkedin before hiring me
<popey> then i deleted my account â»
<shauno> I have "Invitation to Connect on LinkedIn" and "Join my network on LinkedIn" to /dev/null; apparently I need to add "diddledan__'s invitation is awaiting your response" too ;)
<diddledan__> popey: does the benevolent dictator space man count as a boss?
<popey> ya
<diddledan__> I thought he was more.. yannow.. furniture
<diddledan__> :-p
<diddledan__> shauno: lol, sorry :-p
<diddledan__> shauno: you know you love me really
<shauno> maybe a little, but I wish you'd have at least used my real email address instead of gmail, so linkedin would just get laughed at when they connect
<popey> furniture?
<diddledan__> yeah, I haven't got your real email address in my contacts database I don't think
<diddledan__> popey: yeah, always there watching you
 * diddledan__ tries to figure out the best way to dig out of this hole
<diddledan__> downwards sounds like a plan?
<popey> noo
<popey> you'll fall into lava
<diddledan__> lol
<diddledan__> I might find some obsidian though
<shauno> oh boy, I had to explain this to someone at work recently; they'd decided digging downwards was the best bet, because it didn't require torches
<diddledan__> oh the joys of n0rty words into automated systems: http://www.hubspot.com/blog-topic-generator#/banana/hammock/man-bits
<diddledan__> "10 things your competitors can teach you about man-bits"
<jpds> shauno: I use LinkedIn.
<diddledan__> shauno: lol, n00b mistake
<diddledan__> "why we love banana (and you should too)
<diddledan__> and "7 things about man-bits your boss wants to know"
<diddledan__> sorry, family friendly
 * diddledan__ chastises himself
<daftykins> tsk tsk bad dd
<shauno> diddledan__: you really should talk to your parents about their options for parental controls
<popey> mmmm banana
<daftykins> hrmm, have you guys ever been in a situation where you've encountered illegal software? ever bothered to do anything about it / felt it necessary?
<diddledan__> daftykins: yes, and now that you mention it I'd like to have done something about it but my ISP made it too easy to download
<daftykins> not a serious reply there then i see :P
<diddledan__> serious.. hmm..
<daftykins> a small biz client got sold a PC with a shifty copy of windows and office on
<diddledan__> no, I don't think I can do that
<jpds> daftykins: Ubuntu is quite illegal these days.
<daftykins> ho-ho
<diddledan__> aah, well selling illegal software I do have an issue with
<diddledan__> it's immoral - you should get illegal software free of charge
<daftykins> sigh.
<daftykins> honestly i'm trying to ask a serious question and you're just being an ass.
<shauno> who's the vendor?  someone big enough that they could be pushed to provide 'goods as descrobed'?
<diddledan__> my first statement was serious
<diddledan__> the ahh well statement was truthful
<daftykins> shauno: just an individual, who may even be using his employer's licensing on refurb machines he's reselling
<jpds> daftykins: Well, who are you going to report it to that's going to do something about it?
<daftykins> his employer.
<daftykins> well, i'm not necessarily going to
<daftykins> as i don't think it'd really go too far
<daftykins> but i don't really feel right working on something i know is shifty
<daftykins> after all, i can't support it
<diddledan__> rip it out and put ubuntu on there?
<diddledan__> either that or install a "clean" copy of windows
<daftykins> yeah they'd have to purchase one really
<diddledan__> I wouldn't trust a copy of windows that I got preinstalled on a refurb to not have nasties
<daftykins> but i'm not asking about how to resolve it, i'm asking if anyone's ever been in such a situation
<daftykins> indeedy
<diddledan__> I've not been in the situation myself and I don't know whether I'd make an issue out of it
<jpds> daftykins: I'd just install Ubuntu on the box myself.
<daftykins> yeah, client uses Windows only software sadly
<diddledan__> if it was business use that I'd bought it for then I possibly would be swayed towards doing something
<jpds> daftykins: Throw in a copy of Citrix.
<diddledan__> mmm citrix
<daftykins> 'throw in' ? :P
<diddledan__> do companies still use desktop virtualisation?
<jpds> diddledan__: I know a few.
<diddledan__> afaik it never did work as promised
<diddledan__> slow updates when you're typing for e.g. that mean you finish a paragraph and have to sit there and watch as it catches up before you can proofread it for e.g.
<diddledan__> ooh, double for e.g.s
<jpds> That's not my experience with Citrix.
<diddledan__> is that like a double negative?
<shauno> it's an interesting spot to be caught in, but an odd situation because there's no leverage on anyone to actually resolve it.  at best said employer lays the smack down.  your client is still out of pocket
<daftykins> my one? yeah the guy paid Â£140 for a c2d E4500 with 4GB RAM and an nvidia 8400GS in it
<shauno> but no, not a problem I've had.  I don't touch windows in a business context, because only bad things can happen  (and home users all have an oem licence glued to the bottom)
<daftykins> small LCD too
<daftykins> in fairness it'll still be cheap still buying a legit copy of Windows
<shauno> I think I'd bring it up though, just so that when it comes to light ("oh you need to reinstall? no, you're screwed")  you don't look  .. well perhaps not complicit, but certainly not their knight in shining armor, yaknow?
<ali1234> pretty much every copy of windows i've ever seen was unlicensed
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> ali1234: in business or home user contexts though?
<ali1234> both
<ali1234> quite often the machine has a license sticker, but it doesn't match the installed windows
<shauno> I over-use evals in a lab context, but our actual desktops/laptops are all squeaky clean
<ali1234> remember: for a windows installation to be unlicensed, all you have to do is lose the CoA
<daftykins> not exactly a common situation i'm sure
<diddledan__> even if you get it through technet?
<diddledan__> i.e. downloaded
<diddledan__> afaik you don't get a CoA for downloads
<daftykins> volume license is only legit if the system has whatever OS it was shipped withs' CoA
<ali1234> "my nephew upgraded this computer to XP and now it's saying it's unlicensed" was a fairly common complaint back in about 2005 or whenever they made SP3
<diddledan__> that can't be right - what if you volume license a system that didn't come with a copy of windows installed in the first place for you to replace with your volume key?!
<ali1234> i just gave them two choices: buy XP or go back to whatever you had before
<daftykins> my mate works in a school, just told me that they can't buy unlicensed systems
<daftykins> he has to get ones with an OS to use VL
<diddledan__> I think that's more like the school won't buy a blank system rather than they're forced to buy ones with a license already included because the volume license requires a license
<diddledan__> if you had to have a machine pre-licensed then what's the point of a VL?!
<ali1234> the point of a VL is you can spin your own automatic installation image, without needed a unique one for each key
<ali1234> so yeah corps are paying twice for the convenience of being able to do this
<daftykins> depends on your deal from the vendor i guess
<daftykins> i dunno, he went offline so i can't ask
<shauno> it appears to be correct
<diddledan__> that's nuts
<diddledan__> no wonder Microsoft still rake it in
<daftykins> heh :P
<shauno> In Volume Licensing, the desktop PC operating system license is an "update licence." You can only acquire upgrade licenses for devices for which you have already licensed a "qualifying operating system."
<shauno> er, 'upgrade licence' rather
<shauno> so the 'volume license' is a license to use your existing license against the volume system.  and the vlk is just a convenience so that you can do this at scale
<diddledan__> yey for sms text messaging australia
<shauno> honestly, I think msft licensing is like taxes.  you're not meant to understand them - by design.
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> remember when they offered a certification on licensing? :D
<diddledan__> -_-
<diddledan__> my brian hurts
<shauno> that almost sounds as bad as when a coworker hosted a "windows 7 party"
<diddledan__> a what?!
<diddledan__> o.o
<shauno> oh it was A Thing
<diddledan__> really?
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> i think i remember those being setup
<diddledan__> who... when.. why..
<daftykins> they sent you free stuff to give out afaik
<shauno> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cX4t5-YpHQ   put it this way.  this is not satire.
<diddledan__> bonus activities?!
<shauno> it's funny because while installfests seem to be a bit out of date; they never managed to command quite that much cringe
<diddledan__> I think I'm going to host a Windows^H^H^H^HUbuntu 7 party
<xalyy> How to get static ip address? :D
<xalyy> Just finished installation
<xalyy> But got this error Couldn't resolve host 'mirrorlist.centos.org
<xalyy> when try to install something
<shauno> do you have dns addresses?
<xalyy> 0.0.0.0
<shauno> that's just a long way of saying no :)
<daftykins> lmao
<xalyy> No no I not really know I have or not :D
<xalyy> Just want to get this static ip
<daftykins> xalyy: looks like you didn't configure your DNS right
<shauno> you may get away with using google's (8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4), but ideally, you should ask whoever runs the network for their local values
<xalyy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BZHvVpXsg4
<shauno> well, you can have an IP, that doesn't mean you'll reach centos.org
<shauno> you need an IP address & netmask, then you're on the LAN.  then you need a gateway so you can get out the LAN.  and then DNS servers so you know where you're going
<shauno> especially if you're using netboot isos, because the 'net' bit is a huge hint that they expect to reach the network to continue the installation
<xalyy> not used net
<xalyy> I said I have to redo everything
<xalyy> downloaded the standalone centos 6
<shauno> ah ok, I recall it being used earlier.  but the rest is still valid.  if you need centos mirrors, you need a few more details to reach the internet
<xalyy> And installed that but still having problems
<xalyy> Because the DHCP is not activated
<xalyy> So is that video good? :D
<xalyy> To fix this problem?
<shauno> I'd also suggest that #centos might have better ideas on how to proceed without requiring the mirrors  ;)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> xalyy: how did you find your way in here to talk about CentOS anyway? :D
<xalyy> Because I was a proud ubuntu user before? :P
<shauno> oh I'm not trying to chase him off.  just that bits that get more and more centos specific, many of us will be more and more vague
 * diddledan__ tries to use the bot
<diddledan__> !centos | xalyy
<diddledan__> aww
<diddledan__> ok, lets try another one
<diddledan__> !ot | xalyy
<lubotu3> xalyy: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics (though our !guidelines apply there too). Thanks!
<diddledan__> yey
<xalyy> Okay okay goodbye! Thanks everyone the help again! :)
<diddledan__> o_O
<daftykins> i wanna go get Mac help in ##windows now
<diddledan__> daftykins: they'll rip you to shreds
<daftykins> lol
<diddledan__> still I suppose it won't be as bad as if you did vicky verky
<diddledan__> vice versa
<shauno> aww he wasn't that bad.  and for really generic stuff like "0 is not a dns server" I'm not sure there is a 'right place'
<daftykins> well i could fake that i was talking about bootcamp
<diddledan__> I wasn't expecting him to just leave instantly
<daftykins> shauno: yeah, agreed - though he started out with installing CentOS ;D
<shauno> nah, he started out with "how do I put an OS on a remote machine using only dell's management tools", and got some pretty kickass support from jpds
<shauno> I was just trying to hint that stuff like "how do I skip the mirror requirement" was a bit too domain-specific
<diddledan__> I don't get how centos being part of redhat is supposed to be beneficial to centos. I mean they still have to wait until the rhel rpms are released before they get a chance to get hands-on with them
<shauno> I mean, we were talking about windows licensing lol .. almost anything is a worthy diversion
<diddledan__> lol
<daftykins> but everybody loves me talking about Windows - right? right? D
<daftykins> * :D
<shauno> reminds me, we finally have a guineapig for a w7 upgrade.  that'll be interesting
<daftykins> what from?
<shauno> xpsp3
<diddledan__> why not w8?
<daftykins> LOL
<shauno> I really want to upgrade because my machine has 8gig.  they scheduled me for jan 2nd but I refused until someone else takes the pain first
<shauno> and not 8 because it's work.  srsbsns and all that
<shauno> that, and it's taken us this long to prepare for 7.  if we keep moving the goalposts we'll never move
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> that's your work laptop then?
<shauno> yeah
<daftykins> i'm fond of 7 - in most respects
<shauno> I don't have windows at home.  it's far too much like hard work
<daftykins> hehe
<diddledan__> good old australia (this video is a bit near the knuckle but I found it funny) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=STHpMUYeznQ
<diddledan__> apparently it's a fake though - there is no organisation called "learn for life"
<diddledan__> nooooo, awilkins......
<diddledan__> cut off in his prime!
<daftykins> you're making them all leave :(
<shauno> ^
<shauno> and I can't watch youtube :(  I have 40 minutes of battery left.  flash will turn that into 40 seconds
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> quick, download them via a browser extension instead for local play!
<daftykins> my mate and his gf are looking at houses atm, quite near to my parents place
<daftykins> he asked what might be up since there are over 5+ houses on the same road for sale at present
<daftykins> chatting to my dad, apparently they have to consider subsidence due to the houses being built atop German trenches from the occupation :) don't get that every day!
<shauno> I always wonder how much of that slips into urban legend
<shauno> eg, growing up we were told the estate was built on a roman graveyard
<daftykins> lol
<shauno> and we just took it got granted.  made sense - MoD housing, of course they got the cheapest plot in the west
<daftykins> i think the fact there's a bunker beside my parents place suggests that one is quite true, at least
<shauno> a few years on it dawned on me that there probably wasn't that many roman graveyards that side of glasgow
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ooh pants my home insurance runs out tomorrow
<daftykins> i best get to the company to renew it... 2 doors up the hill :)
<shauno> ooeer.  you probably shouldn't drive it too far until you get that sorted :p
<daftykins> XD
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-05
<shauno> anyone wanna write me a sicknote for tomorrow?
<daftykins> sure
<daftykins> sorry shauno can't come to work today, he had an explosive case computeritis
<daftykins> +of
<shauno> I just hate this whole 'performance appraisal' thing.  they're useless, time consuming, and always turn into arguments
<daftykins> how often do you get them?
<shauno> it's 5 a year, kinda.  one a quarter and one a year, under different structures
<shauno> I'm just annoyed because every single time I get called out because I have pathetic metrics on all the noddy work
<shauno> but it's like .. for my little slice of the pie, I take escalations from every which way *including* up.  I even take escalations from the 'escalation team', which is back-asswards.  lately I've found myself taking escalations from the platform team, who are meant to be writing this stuff in the first place
<shauno> and I'm going to get called out, yet again, on not doing as much noddy work as the chap who has nothing else to do but read football websites
<diddledan__> joy
<diddledan__> I know the feeling though. any gentoo admin at my place (which is pretty much all the admin) ends up shoved onto me because I can actually work gentoo. plus they think I know drupal so I'm also a one-man drupal team
<shauno> I'm planning on suggesting that I meet the rest of the team on the metrics, if the rest of the team meet me on troubleshooting.  starting with a lesson that troubleshooting doesn't start with "hey, shaun?"
<diddledan__> random: how fast can an rs232 (serial) link go?
<ali1234> fast
<shauno> 115k-ish was around the fastest standard rate, before you start abusing them
<diddledan__> just shy of a megabit then?
<ali1234> they can go faster than that. it depends how short the cable is
<diddledan__> 115k is bytes
<diddledan__> I finally managed to work out how to use screen to connect to my router is all. it required specifying the baud rate at 115200
<ali1234> why do you want to know?
<ali1234> ah
<shauno> I think your real question is how fast can your router go, then ;)
<diddledan__> o_O
<shauno> well I mean if 115200 is the highest its OS will let you choose, or the highest their uart will support, then how fast rs232 can go is by-the-by
<ali1234> i have done whatever is 115200 * 8 between AVR chips, but that is with only a couple cm of copper, and it's not rs232, it's 3v3v
<ali1234> and the AVR isn't fast enough to do that full duplex anyway
<diddledan__> ali1234: that'ld be a gigabit?
<diddledan__> 115200 itself is a megabit
<ali1234> wut
<diddledan__> my maths is terrible
<diddledan__> 10 megabit
<diddledan__> 115200*8 is 921600bytes/s
<ali1234> not, it's bits per second
<diddledan__> oooh
<shauno> it should be baud?
<ali1234> technically yes
<diddledan__> yeah my maths was a binary order of magnitude out
<diddledan__> or several
<diddledan__> 8 binary orders of magnitude?
<shauno> huh, I thought baud was words/sec too.  it's symbols/sec, and on serial lines a 'symbol' is a 'pulse'.  so bits.
<ali1234> yeah. but serial has a stop bit which is wasted
<ali1234> and it might have parity bits too
 * diddledan__ sings "every bit is sacred. every bit is good. if a bit gets wasted, God gets quite irate"
<diddledan__> ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fUspLVStPbk
<shauno> yaknow, there's some references you can take for granted
<diddledan__> never!
<shauno> hm, I can't find any 'normal' examples going higher than 115200.  almost surprising how little that's moved - my amiga will push
<ali1234> PC UARTs usually can't go above 115200
<hamitron> I always found 115200 fast enough for gaming with a null modem ;)
<ali1234> amiga can do any baud rate but the CPU isn't fast enough to go higher than 57600 with an 030
<ali1234> games don't usually need to share a large amount of data
<shauno> :(  I have an '030
<ali1234> get pyadt :)
<shauno> lol, yeah, you've shown me that one before
<shauno> I still want to get around to getting slip going, but I have no idea why.  aweb is terrible, amirc is terrible ..
<shauno> well, it's not that bad, it's just really, really needs tabs
<shauno> I did find your "recovery partition" interesting though.  strange way to do it, but interesting
<ali1234> why strange?
<shauno> it just seems easier to empty all the floppies into one partition, rather than mounting them all and rebooting
<ali1234> that doesn't do what the installer does though
<ali1234> what i found most interesting is that the installer knows about RAD: and will unmount all the devices. normally they would survive a reboot
<ali1234> so likely the developers actually used something similar to this
<ali1234> also, you still need to use rad: to go from ADFs to a mounted image
<ali1234> and also, i wanted something that would be provably unmodified
<ali1234> too many viruses on amiga software on the internet
<shauno> actually, it looks like it might work unmodified
<ali1234> unmodified? yeah, you can just copy df0: to dh0: or whatever, but i don't like that method
<shauno> I mean you don't have to edit the installer; if the contents of the 'extras' disk are in a dir named 'Extras3.1' it'll use it
<ali1234> i didn't edit the installer
<shauno> I mean just emptying them all into one part still
<shauno> so it's like booting into a 10meg version of the install floppy
<shauno> instead of booting into the recovery partition, running the script and rebooting into the install floppy
<shauno> you boot into the recovery partition, and just run installer from there
<ali1234> that's what it does
<ali1234> oh wait, no, it does reboot twice
<ali1234> you could run that script from a regular workbench install
<ali1234> all it does is mount the ADFs onto ramdisks
<ali1234> i suppose it could have all the files already unpacked, but then it would have to md5 each file individually
<shauno> I was just looking at this in the installer; http://paste.ubuntu.com/6876304/
<shauno> it seems they already have the logic for "if I have everything I need, don't ask for more disks"
<ali1234> yep... but everything you need won't fit on one disk...
<shauno> but yeah, I wouldn't trust it downloaded like that.  more on a howto
<shauno> right, that's back to where I started; I found the idea of a recovery partition mounting the floppies to be odd, because if you're going to have a partition for them, it can be the install disk itself
<shauno> I did find it interesting though, because I still don't have a floppy drive - and I'd never seen this RAD: before
<shauno> I picked up the HxC floppy emulator, but the cable is still hanging out of the back of the drive that I can't find
<shauno> I have an external that doesn't work, and I can't figure out how to open.  I've been getting closer and closer to taking it outside and doing a concrete disassembly just so I can salvage that cable
<ali1234> you can use a PC floppy drive cable
<ali1234> it's straight-thru
<shauno> I don't have those either
<shauno> the only PC I have atm is a 1U poweredge.  and sadly I've moved so many times that these things get shed over time
<shauno> I should just ebay, but I'm determined the missing floppy drive is in my house somewhere
<ali1234> none of my floppy drives still work, they just grind the disks and report errors
<shauno> ditto, that's why I thought this emulator would be fun.  you just load up adf's onto an sd card, and it lets you flick through and mount them right on the floppy controller
<shauno> this thing; http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/
<shauno> reminds me, I have a friend who has an old sony camera that uses floppies.  and she still uses it in anger - apparently it does better in low-light (concerts) than her real camera
<shauno> not that it's relevant to anything, but it boggles my mind that such a thing exists
<ali1234> many old synthesizers and sequencers use floppies to
<ali1234> DD floppies now sell for like Â£5 each
<shauno> really? oh good lord, ebay here I come
<ali1234> new ones :)
<shauno> nope, my memory's playing tricks on me.  I have a few boxes of unused floppies, but they're HD, not DD
<ali1234> yep, same here
<ali1234> HD ones work, but not really
<shauno> heh, yeah, "except when they don't"
<shauno> it's been a whole long time since I saw anyone selling 880k disks though
<shauno> that said, my local EB sold big-box amiga games way later than anyone would have expected
<ali1234> i can't even find second-hand gamecube games around here
<ali1234> i guess ebay killed the second hand market
<ali1234> and amazon killed the new market
<shauno> I'm not so fond of ebay for this bit; accellerator cards seem to go for many hundreds more than I'd be comfortable with
<shauno> I mean, the one I've got felt bad at 150-ish, and it's just an '030 with .. I can't remember if it's 4meg, or 8 but I can only use 4 without claashing with pcmcia
<shauno> and I think another 150-ish for my scandoubler.  although that doesn't feel like such a ripoff
<shauno> he's still making them, still releasing new revisions - both firmware and hardware.  and such things wind up quite pricey if you can't make volume
<shauno> so I Get where his prices come from - the second-hand market doesn't
<shauno> and it seems I'm finally losing the battery game, so I'll stop babbling.  'night
<mapps> hey
<MartijnVdS> http://satwcomic.com/creeping
<MooDoo> Morning all
<popey> evening
<MooDoo> popey I say you relaxing with the rest of the guys yesterday, you take it easy mate ;) lol
<MooDoo> s/saw
<popey> â»
 * popey is in bed
<MooDoo> looks like you're all having a great time :D
<popey> yeah, busy busy
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon how are you this fine day :D
<jussi> I think I need to go to bed
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo , half asleep still, busy day, and you?
<jussi> not feeling great here at all
<MooDoo> wassup jussi
<jussi> MooDoo: just feeling crappy, sore throat, lots of muck.
<MooDoo> yeah lots of that going around....moooo
<MooDoo> I did actually mean boooooo :)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> How's the weather in the SE MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> diplo looking at the weather on the news, not that good, here in the midlands it's wet but not that bad.  I saw on the news that in cork ireland, it's under 1ft water :(
<MartijnVdS> good thing cork floats
<MartijnVdS> </badjoke>
<MooDoo> naughty MartijnVdS ;)
<diplo> blookin 'eck
<diplo> I thought you were in London area now MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> diplo, no still in Nottingham
<knightwise> 1havethePOWER!
<knightwise> HEEE MAAAAAAN !
<knightwise> There
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: thanks for your passwords
<knightwise> thats better then "good morningÃ¹"
 * knightwise changes them now
<adrianpavone> Virus breaks when you have too much unsaved in the editor?
<MartijnVdS> adrianpavone: insidious :)
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> whats up
<knightwise> yooo
<knightwise> grr.. putty won't recognise my function keys :(
<mapps> =[
<mapps> why do i smoke when im out
<mapps> arghhh
<mapps> i quit 3 years ago
<mapps> ;/
<MartijnVdS> mapps: because you lack willpower?
<mapps> probably true
<mapps> :(
<mapps> 1 or 2 beers and i decide i feel like a cigarette
<adrianpavone> MartijnVdS, Annoying is what I call it
<mapps> even pay 8.50 gbp at the casino for a pack
<adrianpavone> Borrowing stth's config file.
<mapps> time and time again
<mapps> ;/
<adrianpavone> And ... his fruit is named "Amanda Seyfried" ... sicko
<brobostigon> week three of workfare/mwa, wish me luck.
<mapps> whats that?
<MooDoo> brobostigon, wow has it been that long already?
<brobostigon> workfare is out conservative governments slave labout scheme for the unemployed MooDoo
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes.
<brobostigon> our*
<brobostigon> labour*
<brobostigon> workfare is out conservative governments slave labout scheme for the unemployed mapps
<mapps> aha
<mapps> but i thought
<mapps> unemployed dont work?
<MooDoo> yay finally got my first raspberry pi :D
<mapps> what do you have to do brobostigon ?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: any plans for it?
<brobostigon> mapps: i have had to do shop work, which because of my osteoporosis is bone breaking.
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS, no idea...first time I've ever seen one!
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I've ordered a GPS kit for mine, so I can make it into an NTP server :)
<mapps> argh damn shop work is dull
<mapps> unlucky;/
<mapps> should apply for a job at my place
<mapps> we let people work from home:)
<MooDoo> mapps where you work?
<adrianpavone> #  "never pick up" exceptions
<adrianpavone> AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*>>>*"
<adrianpavone> Any idea what that does?
<adrianpavone> Never picks up anything with >>> in the name?
<mapps> 365
<MartijnVdS> adrianpavone: which context?
<mapps> always hiring new staff
<MooDoo> mapps, what you do and where you work?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: 365? Microsoft's Office division?
<mapps> i just said 365:P
<mapps> no
<brobostigon> mapps: i studied computer engineering, its of absolutly no use of my abilities,
<mapps> Ray Winstone..ring a bell now ;)
<MooDoo> mapps,sorry no idea what that is lol
<mapps> bet365
<mapps> big online bookmaker
<MooDoo> mapps, ah get you now
<mapps> loads of departments and diff roles
<mapps> literally always hiring
<ali1234> high turnover?
<mapps> of staff..?
<mapps> in the call centre..sure
<ali1234> yes
<mapps> but in other departments..no
<mapps> ]call centres more young kids/uneducated people
<mapps> but there's development/trading
<mapps> etc
<mapps> infrastructure
<mapps> i work in the office..but it's pretty easy/relaxed:P i watch tv/sport :)
<MooDoo> mapps sounds interesting
<mapps> yea it's ok
<mapps> get annoyed at times
<mapps> but i'd struggle with a normal office job
<mapps> i can watch say barca v real madrid while doing whatever game im doing..and bet on betfair
<mapps> normal ofice wouldnt allow that:)
<MooDoo> yeah it's all dependant on the working environment.
<mapps> yep
<mapps> my friend works at same company
<mapps> but diff dept
<mapps> and he cant even get on betfair..its blocked for them
<mapps> :{
<Guest38143> Good morning all; happy Digital Learning Day! :-D
<bashrc> Happy digital learning day
<adrianpavone> Bots?
<mapps> hm
<mapps> am i the only person not on linked in
<mapps> seems most my work are
<mapps> na their real names/job titles
<mapps> i just dont see why id bother putting all my info on there
<mapps> same wih twiter-i have a twitter that i use to occasionally tweet a company..most my department seem to use it daily to talk to each other and facebool?
<mapps> i closed facebook because i found it to be a chore
<mapps> a time drain
<JamesTait> mapps, the theory is that LinkedIn is like an online CV, with a trust network to verify the facts.
<mapps> lol
<mapps> so if i was their boss i'd sack them all
<mapps> if theyre that ready to take a new job
<mapps> i just dont get it..why do i want someone being able to google my name and find out where i work/live/what uni i went to?
<JamesTait> In practice, I've found people endorsing skills on my profile they've never seen me use, so I still regard it with an eye of suspicion.
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i just dont really bother with these new things
<mapps> not that new i know
<adrianpavone> Yeah, it's a Ring of Trust thing without the trust establishment.
<mapps> but facebook too..isnt that a total waste?
<mapps> and yet people spend HOURS on it
<bashrc> agree.  I have been endorsed on linkedin by people who I have never met and who know nothing about me
<adrianpavone> Facebook is definitely a total waste.
<mapps> i spoke to someone that said they spend 10hours a day on it
<mapps> LOL
<adrianpavone> Makes people FEEL like they're connecting.
<bashrc> facebook is the worst
<mapps> i couldnt care less what you're eating tonight adrianpavone  nor could you care what i am :P
<mapps> bragBOOK
<bashrc> my web site/email are censored on facebook
<mapps> all about bragging
<mapps> and showing off
<adrianpavone> mapps, Well then that's good: I have never yet taken a photo of my food.
<bashrc> stasibook, more like
<mapps> 99% of the posts are absolute drivel!!!
<mapps> irc is a totall different ball game imo
<bashrc> Friendica is better
<mapps> mainly because the retards generally arent here in such numbers=]
<adrianpavone> IRC is more about sharing opinions and information (plus socialising)
<mapps> yea
<JamesTait> Like
<JamesTait> :-P
<mapps> facebook is just ANYTHING
<mapps> like 'I WENT TO NANDOS IT WAS FUN'
<JamesTait> Poke
<mapps> 'IM GOING TO WORK LATER THAT SUCKS POOR ME'
<mapps> lol
<adrianpavone> Hmm ... let me link a photobucket picture of the food I just ate ... :P
<ali1234> lol nandos, i went there once *like*
<JamesTait> OK, I'll stop.
<mapps> sorry adrianpavone  i was wrong
<mapps> i meant instagram:P its instagram where people post food pics
<mapps> lol
<mapps> ive never used that either
<adrianpavone> Yea
<bashrc> there are actual conversations on stasibook sometimes, but rarely
<ali1234> no, flikr is where the food pics are at
<adrianpavone> Instagram that's autolinked to FB
<ali1234> instagram is all selfies
<JamesTait> With filters applied to make the photos look old and grainy.
<mapps> oh is instagram facebook?
<adrianpavone> Agreed with the selfies comment
<ali1234> it is now, yes
<mapps> aha
<mapps> i didnt know
<mapps> it;'s just very sad
<ali1234> they paid like 1 billion dollars, or something
<mapps> I remember when i was at Glastonbury 2011 ...4pm i saw Gold Panda outside and there's people at the front of the area and i 100% promise
<mapps> i can see a girl on facebook
<mapps> like LOL
<mapps> why are you here? so you can tell your friends how SICK glasto is and its amazing youre having the best time>
<adrianpavone> Well she had to post about it
<mapps> yea
<mapps> deff
<ali1234> who cares?
<mapps> i just find it a bit strange
<mapps> ali1234,  not me
<ali1234> i mean it's better than sitting in a dark room on irc
<mapps> but i mean its strange people care so much
<bashrc> ignore the stasibook nonsense and move on to real networks
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> is it?
<ali1234> yes.
<mapps> nonsense convos on facebook with morons?
<ali1234> s/facebook/all of the internet/
<adrianpavone> ali1234, I'll have you know my light is on!
<mapps> i guess
<mapps> same happened at warehouse project..infact my friend even tweeted that he was here and how good it was
<mapps> i just dont see the need
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * mapps is a lone survivor/loner;p
<mapps> morning bigcalm
<bashrc> hi bigcalm
<ali1234> mapps: for all you know she could have lost her friend in the crowd, and was trying to contact them on facebook chat
<adrianpavone> Yeah, because making a phone call is so 1990's
<mapps> lol
<MooDoo> yay facebook lol
<ali1234> right because it's really easy to make a phone call at a rock concert
<mapps> and what about glasto with no phones;p
<ali1234> not like there is a large amount of background noise or anything
<mapps> i hd no phone after the first day
<mapps> lost my old samsung
<jussi> hrm, music recommendations anyone?  something acoustic ish, not too rock, not too bubblegum pop, but still easy listening.
<ali1234> jussi: open rhythmbox, go to radio, listen to radio paradise
<ali1234> wait you use KDE?
<jussi> ali1234: hrm... lets see if amarok has that...
<jussi> yeah ;)
<ali1234> http://www.radioparadise.com/rp_2.php?
<mapps> jussi,
<mapps> florence and the machine - cosmic love
<mapps> :D
<mapps> or even better
<mapps> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYSy8xferSk
<mapps> my favourite song ;]
<ali1234> yeah you'll like radio paradise. they play this type of stuff all day
<jussi> ali1234: available in Amarok :)
<ali1234> you might wanna check the other streams on the website. the default one in rhythmbox doesn't have embedded track IDs
<jussi> amarok seems to have them
<jussi> amarok even opens the wikipage on the artist for me
<mapps> see my url jussi
<jussi> mapps: yeah, Ill get to it in a min :)
<mapps> ;]
<MooDoo> Is it time to go home yet?
<foobarry> stupid strike
<mapps> underground?
<foobarry> yeah, although affects traffic and buses
<foobarry> because my bus was a couple of minutes away for 25 mins
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it was hiding, just around the corner
<foobarry> blatantly. there was one 7 mins away for the whole time too
<foobarry> sooo cold
<BigRedS> it was a bit weird - loads of traffic all the way in and then also lots of parking once in...
<BigRedS> it's like everyone decided to drive in, but only as far as the edge of the congestion charge zone
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "But I can't go in there, it costs MONEYS"
<foobarry> what does "compacting folder" in thunderbird actually do?
<foobarry> remove whitespace from local files, or do stuff on server?
<ali1234> removes deleted messages from the database
<ali1234> nothing to do with the server
<jussi> mapps: nice song
<jussi> I have something strange... my note 2 is missing a screw - and I havent removed it...
<jussi> its the one next to the camera there... http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy31/marcowing/notes2b.jpg
<MartijnVdS> jussi: NSA is watching you
<jussi> MartijnVdS: lol
<foobarry> ali1234: thanks strange because i see o365 errors from the server, folder failed to expunge
<MooDoo> I'm not bothered about the NS, I schule 3 weeks of blog posts to go to them first before they are put on my website :D
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i have no bank card atm and ii wanna go out tonight
<mapps> arghh
<mapps> the cassino charge 1.50 to pay on credit card
<foobarry> is your life just one long trip to casino and strip joint?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: don't gamble if you can't take the loss ;)
<mapps> lol
<mapps> almost foobarry
<mapps> ;p
<foobarry> i'm guessing ur single then
<MartijnVdS> !u
<lubotu3> U is the 21st letter of the modern latin alphabet. Neither 'U' nor 'Ur' are words in the English language. Neither are 'R', 'Y', 'l8', 'ryt',  'Ne1' nor 'Bcuz'. Mangled English is hard for non-native English speakers. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/abbreviations/ for more information.
<foobarry> thanks sheldon
<mapps> i got a letter this year btw from Grosvenor casinos - 'dear mr mark p thanks for your loyal custom in 2013 enclosed is a vocher to redeem at the cash desk'
<mapps> figure i mustve been like 150+ in 2013
<foobarry> :-|
<foobarry> net profit/loss?
<mapps> i dont gamble there
<mapps> just drink
<mapps> i go to Genting first serves till 5..now 5.30
<mapps> then go down to grosvenor serves till 6..allowed till 6.30
<mapps> we have 2 casinos wihin 2mins distance
<foobarry> surely pubs are nicer ambience than a casino?
<mapps> nope
<mapps> i got a free beer from vito (manager) on sunday
<mapps> and 2 few weeks back before i went to holland
<mapps> casino is WAY safer
<foobarry> i've only been to a casino once. not particularly bonhomie type of place
<mapps> genting has like 6 door staff EVERY day
<adrianpavone> "Cthulu eats a bugbear corpse." heheh
<mapps> so its way safer than a normal bar/club
<foobarry> but no women or jovial times
<BigRedS> six door staff would make it seem *less* safe to me
<mapps> na
<mapps> genting has a lot of women
<mapps> genting gets busy
<mapps> grosvenor is ALWAYS empty
<mapps> is like our private bar
<foobarry> each to their own i guess
<mapps> girl on reception said they keep the bar open incase me and my mate come lol porbably lies
<mapps> biut ya i go probably 4-5x a week to both
<foobarry> and you never gamble, just for drinkies?
<mapps> sometimes throw a few quid down..but i expect to lose..usually just drink
<mapps> ive been going so long i know the bar staff at both
<mapps> and the managers
<mapps> when i walk in to genting 9/10x im already signed in as the women on reception knows me
<mapps> casinos arent that bad if you arent a mug
<mapps> cigs are expensive mind..9.50
<mapps> ;/
<MartijnVdS> don't smoke then ;)
<foobarry> i didn't like the atmos much
<mapps> yea sometims its no great
<foobarry> seemed to revolve around money strangely.
<mapps> fri/sat is busy and very chav
<mapps> but
<mapps> mon-thurs its fine
<mapps> basically got a private bar
<foobarry> so does my house :)
<mapps> heh
<foobarry> although i haven't used it for ages
<foobarry> got an unopneed bottle of port in the cupboard
<mapps> i had a loud arhuement with some slag in genting few months back..then went and spoke to thew manager to make sure i wouldnt get banned
<mapps> lol
<bashrc> I generally stay off the booze.  It interferes with coding
<mapps> she was telling me my degrees worthless
<mapps> bashrc,  - good idea..but wont happen for me
<mapps> :)
<foobarry> bashrc: i discovered that probelm at uni.
<foobarry> couldn't go back to code after even 2 pints
<mapps> im a 'heavy' drinker
<foobarry> maybe she cares about you
<foobarry> :)
<bashrc> I liked coding more than boozing
<mapps> probably like 25 pints a week 4-5x casino 5pints and then 2 nights of those we go to town and its a 12-15 + jonb
<mapps> yea well it was some girl from work
<mapps> telling me my degree is useless
<foobarry> dare i ask what degree you have?
<mapps> so i was screaming at her my mate said
<bashrc> what's your degree in?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: most degrees *are* useless though ;)
<mapps> i have a bsc from portsmouth..in the ece dept  enegineering computing
<mapps> so not a ba in arts
<mapps> and i work in trading..she works on the phones?
<bashrc> indeed most are useless if you just regard them as a ticket to a job
<adrianpavone> ^
<mapps> just really riled me
<mapps> agree
<foobarry> i decided against oxbridge, wonder how my life would have been different
<mapps> u didnt go uni?
<foobarry> i went to machester, it had a better course
<foobarry> IMO
<foobarry> and i didn't like the sorts from my school who were aiming for oxbridge
<bashrc> posh kids
<foobarry> not so much posh, but very much snobby and competitive
<ali1234> yeah manchester :)
<foobarry> destined for career as a politician or something like that
<foobarry> meanwhile i'm wearing a hoodie and wondering why my tomcat app is failing to run
<ali1234> when were you there foobarry?
<foobarry> 93-96
<mapps> what did you do at manc
<foobarry> maths & comp sci
<ali1234> heh, you';re older than me
<foobarry> got a 1st \o/
<ali1234> 98-01
<foobarry> manc?
<ali1234> got a third :S
<ali1234> yeah
<foobarry> good old days
<MooDoo> I'm the oldest in here lol actually i'm bnot
<foobarry> most of my mates who got thirds ended up as excellent coders
<bashrc> it sounds like all y'all's degrees weren't worthless
<foobarry> they were talented coders to begin, but i just concentrated on doing what i was asked
<foobarry> they spend their time developing uglymug or other muds
<foobarry> ali1234: comp sci?
<ali1234> yeah
<bashrc> never played muds much
<foobarry> its all pulled down now :(
<foobarry> shiny new building, so google maps shows me
<bashrc> I should install a mud on my server
<foobarry> http://www.uglymug.org.uk/
<MooDoo> bashrc, I love muds :D
<MartijnVdS> Wow, muds. Do they still exist?
<bashrc> I think htey do
<foobarry> they are called WoW now
<bashrc> :-o
<foobarry> i don't actually know what i'm doing with this grails/tomcat stuff
<MooDoo> circlemud was my fave
<ali1234> foobarry: they tore the maths building down but comp sci is still there
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> i thought it was all new
<foobarry> jabez clegg is shut now :(
<foobarry> boddingtons Â£1 pint happy hour 11am-12
<ali1234> they probably didn't want to touch the noc
<ali1234> looks like pretty much every other building is different
<ali1234> jabez was always rough :/
<foobarry> :-o
<foobarry> used to drink in the phoenix every day
<foobarry> with all the neckbeards
<ali1234> i rented a house off the landlord of the phoenix
<foobarry> and play pool/fruit machines
<adrianpavone> !conduct
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is the document that spells out etiquette in the Ubuntu community | http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct  | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct | Watch http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv
<ali1234> scottish chap. don't remember his name. steve or something
<foobarry> i used to help on teh open days for students. was nice when future students would tell me they remembered me from teh open day and i helped in some way
<foobarry> we used to show them the student side of things, and take them to phoenix at end of day
<foobarry> i also remember participating in the market research when they were planning to open that bar below the phoenix
<ali1234> they did open a nightclub downstairs
<ali1234> don't think it was ever very popular
<foobarry> scruffy nellys?
<foobarry> dirty nelly?
<foobarry> something like that
<ali1234> "scream"
<foobarry> they used to film cracker in the precinct next to comp sci
<foobarry> would come home to see robbie coltrane sitting on my lunch bench
<MooDoo> any reason why conduct was invoked?
<foobarry> i said neckbeard?
<MooDoo> !conduct
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is the document that spells out etiquette in the Ubuntu community | http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct  | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct | Watch http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv
<MooDoo> ;)
<foobarry> although they did have beards on their neck
<ali1234> neckbeards were fairly uncommon when i was there
<jussi> hrm, alternative android keyboards anyone? (preferably open source, and trustable)
<ali1234> lots of long dyed black hair and trenchcoats tho
<foobarry> big time
<foobarry> matrix city
<ali1234> yeah that would be it
<foobarry> they still look like that in the CS dept here
<ali1234> i am not hugely surprised
<ali1234> this was pre-hipster times tho
<ali1234> it was hipsters that brought back the neckbeard
<ali1234> imo anyway
<MartijnVdS> there was still a group of people who didn't like anything "mainstream" though
<MartijnVdS> there always is
<foobarry> hipsters are more grommed beard IMO
<ali1234> yeah but without the irony
<foobarry> for non mainstreamers, hipster certainly have a whole mainstream lack of individuality going on
<ali1234> like hipsters will listen to mainstream music from 10 years ago that nobody like anymore, because it is ironic
<foobarry> most blacktshirt wearers at conferences seem to be recovering goths/CSers
<ali1234> where as the cyber-goths actually have their own subculture that has nothing to do with the mainstream at all
<foobarry> i saw a CS student with a utility belt that carried a netbook
<foobarry> i marvelled at it
<foobarry> very utility. much fashion
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: http://www.utilikilts.com/
<foobarry> i never conformed to the goth/metal stereotype
<MartijnVdS> I tended to conform to the "Please ignore me I'm not here" stereotype
<foobarry> not sure if i indentified more with the mathmos or the cs geeks
<foobarry> or neither
<foobarry> my non course mates were all very blokey, heavy drinkers, and rather course
<ali1234> i ended up living with a load of musicians
<foobarry> = pot heads?
<ali1234> "no comment"
<foobarry> i lost a lot of good social time to a lot of friends discovering pot in the 3rd year
<foobarry> they stopped going out or being any kind of reasonable social company
<foobarry> what some city kids tend to do  when they are 16
<awilkins> Yeah, half my flatmates in my 3rd year were potheads
<awilkins> I couldn't do it, not compatible with being a medical student and having to look smart and act sharp in front of consultant surgeons all day
<foobarry> Feb 5, 2014 10:58:24 AM org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext startI
<foobarry> nternal
<foobarry> SEVERE: Error listenerStart
<foobarry> where do i go about debugging tomcat when an app fails to start? looking in logs atm , but not helpful
<MartijnVdS> strace?
<MartijnVdS> the app
<MartijnVdS> the app's author?
<davmor2> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o davmor2
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: trying the dev and he only releases info on a piecemeal basis
<foobarry> its like driving in the dark
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: then strace is your best bet
<xalyy> hello
<foobarry> strace on tomcat?
<xalyy> its me again :D
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: why nto
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: can you start it in the foreground ("don't daemonize")? Maybe that has better debug output?
<foobarry>  Error creating
<foobarry>  bean with name 'transactionManagerPostProcessor': Initialization of be
<foobarry> an failed; nested exception is org.springframework.beans.factory.BeanCr
<foobarry> eationException: Error creating bean with name 'transactionManager': Ca
<foobarry> nnot resolve reference to bean 'sessionFactory' while setting bean prop
<foobarry> erty 'sessionFactory'; nested exception is org.springframework.beans.fa
<foobarry> ctory.BeanCreationException: Error creating bean with name 'sessionFact
<foobarry> ory': Invocation of init method failed; nested exception is org.hiberna
<foobarry> te.cache.NoCachingEnabledException: Second-level cache is not enabled f
<foobarry> or usage
<foobarry> this kind of guff is problaby meaningful to someone
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: .. pastebin?
<foobarry> yeah sorry, though it was shorter :P
<xalyy> Can someone tell me some centos irc because from #centos I am banned for nothing... I doesn't even logged in once
<xalyy> Thanks
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I think it might mean there's something in your configuration not right
<foobarry> do you read the stacktrace from bottom or top?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: can you put it on pastebin? The random linebreaks on IRC make it hard :)
<xalyy> Someone? :S
<ali1234> xalyy: register with nickserv
<xalyy> What you mean?
<xalyy> I log in to #centos and register?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: generally, you read it top-to-bottom
<ali1234> no you have to register first
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: no, you register with nickserv
<xalyy> Ugh where how? :D
<ali1234>  /msg nickserv help register
<ali1234> !register
<lubotu3> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<xalyy> !register
<foobarry> http://pastebin.com/3x5tfU93 MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: this seems to come up a lot: org.hibernate.cache.NoCachingEnabledException: Second-level cache is not enabled for usage
<foobarry> yes, i was googling that
<foobarry> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11206125/ehcache-integration-with-hibernate-spring-exception-second-level-cache-is-not
<xalyy> ali1234: http://gyazo.com/e1f36d7b52a916c49e8d033c592359a1.png
<xalyy> Can't
<foobarry> xalyy: try ask in #freenode
<foobarry> they are super helpful
<xalyy> Ask why i am banned?
<davmor2> xalyy: yes
<xalyy> Ok
<xalyy> Wow
<xalyy> There is a thousand people and nowone answering
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/f531ef633bd9c6d169036feb52d1e579.png
<xalyy> Great...
<foobarry> are you banned?
<foobarry> connect with a different nick?
<xalyy> Tried
<xalyy> I even tried to log in with other ip
<xalyy> not work
<foobarry> works for me
<foobarry> maybe you're holding it wrong
<foobarry> what does the /win 1
<foobarry> chanserv window say when you connect
<xalyy> a
<xalyy>  /win 1
<foobarry> also, ask the ops directly - evolution, hughesjr, etc
<DJones> xalyy: Its because you're using the web gateway rather than a real IRC client, the centos channel looks to have that banned for everybody
<xalyy> Yeah
<xalyy> I just downloaded mirc
<xalyy> Now what I have to do?
<foobarry> steering clear of facebook until facebook movies have gone away
<foobarry> so lame
<dwatkins> well quite
 * dwatkins checks facebook
<MooDoo> lame?  I thought they were great
<foobarry> turns on his sarcasm detector
<foobarry> nice to look at for yourself, not to share
<MooDoo> I thought it was nice to look at other peoples
<foobarry> baby picture slideshow?
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah but you are a sad sad man
<MooDoo> foobarry, yes and davmor2, correct :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: I've not actually seen any yet, I saw your post but I've been to busy to look at it :D
<MooDoo> davmor2, no need to look, you're not in it :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: you being a semi-professional Photographer though might make it better to look at than most that are done on phones
<MooDoo> davmor2, :p
<knightwise> morning everon e
<davmor2> MooDoo: that was a compliment dude.  You and tonytigers I can see being awesome to view.   Others maybe not so much :)
<MooDoo> I'm not really doing much photography at the moment....
<bigcalm> Right, who here suggested the use of a Netgear ProSafe router?
<bigcalm> Routing is some what not working for me
<davmor2> bigcalm: I didn't
<davmor2> bigcalm: however you have to admit it is professionally keeping you safe
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes, it's keeping me safe from *.office365.com
<davmor2> bigcalm: well the internet in general I hope :D
<cocoa117__> for home user to use cloud storage for backups, does it matter to do lots of full backup? each time full backup will take up lots of space and uploading time. as long as the full backup is sha1 verfied, so file is not corrupted i see no reason to keep it that, right?
<bigcalm> What's the windows command that'll let me do a tracepath/route?
<MooDoo> cocoa117__, I just do incremental, just upload the changed files.
<MooDoo> changed/new
<davmor2> bigcalm: google it good for letting you know things like that :P
<MooDoo> bigcalm, traceroute
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can try pinging and tracroute
<cocoa117__> MooDoo, you mean one full backup and then just keep doing incremental?
<MooDoo> bigcalm, i meant tracert
<bigcalm> 'traceroute' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
<bigcalm> Hence asking
<bigcalm> Ah, ta
<MooDoo> cocoa117__, that's what I do but it might not be right for everyone
<davmor2> cocoa117__: a friend of mine does the following.  Day 1 of a month takes a full backup this is then replaced on the 1st of each month.  He then has an incremental daily backup. That way there is one image that is a safe daily and one that is a full monthly.  The idea being that the full monthly can replace all the settings installed apps etc etc, where as the daily is more like the home partition
<bigcalm> This explains why I'm unable to use my work email in Thunderbird on my desktop: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6878729/
<bigcalm> But I don't understand why it would happen
<bigcalm> It's happening on all FQN I try. I don't get it
<bigcalm> Sod it, going back to old router until I have time to figure it all out
<hoover> hey folks
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't do updates on you laptop today
<foobarry> i hear microsoft like nutella
<davmor2> foobarry: sometimes I worry about you
<foobarry> they made nutella their CEO?
<foobarry> or did i mishear
<foobarry> ""I would say the first thing I want to do and focus on is ruthlessly remove any obstacles that allow us to innovate,"
<awilkins> Ballmer... Windows... Google...
<foobarry> ummm don't you mean obstacles that stop us from innovating
<awilkins> The US Government ... The EU Assembly ....
<foobarry> quote from mr nutella
<awilkins> The collective moral conscience of all MS developers ...
<bigcalm> I'm quite fed up with networking
<bashrc> is that a recent quote?
<foobarry> yes bashrc his first memo to MS
<knightwise> MS is gonna need it.
<knightwise> RT is not doing so great , Windows 8 in the enterprise is not that big of a success and some of their enterprise cloud solutions are not very stable (sharepoint online)
<davmor2> bigcalm: look, look, I'm playing the worlds smallest violin just for you ;)  No I concur though if you aren't a network jedi then it is overly complex.  However if you get to networking jedi there are jobs galore :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I understand most of what's going on with the ProSafe switch/router/firewall, but I don't think the interface is for consumers ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: that said, I run openwrt on my Netgear WNDR3700
<Dave2> bigcalm: iptables -P INPUT DROP ; iptables -P OUTPUT DROP ; iptables -P FORWARD DROP
<Dave2> bigcalm: all fixed
<Dave2> also add some -Fs
<bigcalm> Dave2: quite
<foobarry> so many daves
<bigcalm> I'm going to factory reset the switch/router and then read some documentation about it :)
<bigcalm> foobarry: are you a Dave as well?
<foobarry> not today
<davmor2> foobarry: there are at least as many daves as there are alans
<davmor2> bigcalm: resorting to the documentation man things must be bad ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: very
<bigcalm> Right, time to reinstall 14.04 on my laptop that I have royally screwed by trying to get nvidia working and then removing the packages
<bigcalm> Unless there's an easy way to get things back to how they were pre-nvidia
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you update today?
<bigcalm> davmor2: no. Shall I?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no
<foobarry> 12:17 < davmor2> bigcalm: don't do updates on you laptop today
 * MooDoo is going to leave 14.04 until it's released
<foobarry> remember when new releases were fun and featureful?
<davmor2> bigcalm: what issue have you hit?
<MartijnVdS> he bought nvidia
<DJones> davmor2: Somebody just mentioned an issue with 14.04 in #ubuntu that sounded pretty messy
<bigcalm> davmor2: after installing nvidia-331 and nvidia-prime (it also installed a lot of other things), the laptop would not survive a resume from suspend: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/431050553452265473/photo/1
<davmor2> DJones: likely the protobuf issue
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: LOOK AWAY FROM THAT SCREEN
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/SnowCrash?from=Main.SnowCrash
<davmor2> bigcalm: so switch it off instead
<bigcalm> davmor2: so I tried removing those two packages (as you suggested) and the system no longer gave me a desktop at all
<bigcalm> davmor2: then I reinstalled those 2 packages and still have no desktop
<davmor2> bigcalm: to remove nvidia just do sudo apt-get purge nvidia-331 nvidia-prime should kill off nvidia
<davmor2> bigcalm: then do sudo apt-get autoremove
 * bigcalm reboots
<bigcalm> Yay, working laptop again
<bigcalm> I can bring it to the LUG tonight after all
<bigcalm> As long as I don't dist-upgrade
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'll give you a ping when the fix lands then it should be safe to upgrade again :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: what's the bug #?
<bigcalm> davmor2: cheers :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: not sure there is one one of the devs hit it first thing and fixed it, it's in proposed just needs to land in the repo for real
<bigcalm> What's the issue stopping us from updating?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: what's the bug then? :)
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26045740
<foobarry> Adobe Flash Player gets emergency update
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: no idea
<foobarry> do linux users get updates anymore?
<foobarry> A new version of the multimedia player has been made available for download for Windows, Mac and Linux computers.
<davmor2> bigcalm: there is a protobuf abi break that means that x starts but compiz doesn't so no unity shell
<bigcalm> davmor2: ah, okay :)
<foobarry> why if flashplugin-installer is up to date, https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/plugincheck/ shows an old one?
<foobarry> or says i'm vulnerable..
<dwatkins> 6perhaps the one in the repos is 'old'
<dwatkins> I'm using Chrome, so my plugin is different from the official latest version.
<dwatkins> foobarry: there are security updates for the linux version of the flash player
 * awilkins has 202
<foobarry> i installed them
<foobarry> 202,336
<dwatkins> I sometimes turn on 'click to play' for flash, just to see how widely it's used.
<dwatkins> People really should be switching to HTML5.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins++
<popey> morning
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<MooDoo> morning popey
<ikonia> anyone been reading anything about DDOS on against major UK ISP's
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: why? you have plans?
<bashrc> by that "intelligence" group?
<ikonia> no, I'm just curious what the news reports are saying as I'm seeing mixed bags and seeing mixed reports from various backbone providers
<bashrc> is it supposed to be on now?
<ikonia> bashrc: no-ones told me anyone has claimed responsibility yet so I don't know
<ikonia> bashrc: it's been going on in the morning today, but appears to have died down a bit, but still present
<bashrc> well, my server has been up all morning
<ikonia> as has mine
<ikonia> but it appears big chunks of janet got dropped
<bashrc> could be hype
<MartijnVdS> everything to make you think there are terrorists out there
<MartijnVdS> and make you accept the internet filtering
<bashrc> "cyberwar" agenda
<ikonia> well, I can only go by what the service providers said "we are being ddos'd and can't maintain service"
<bashrc> yes, all those could be factors
<bashrc> not seeing anything untowards in my server stats, and I'm on a UK ISP
<ikonia> I had no reason to doubt them as part of major networks appeared to be dropped
<ikonia> bashrc: I think it's more the core backbone from what they where saying than the inividual isp's
<ikonia> but again, I don't know, hence wondering if any of you had any reports to share
<MartijnVdS> well, bitcoin is down $100 today
<MartijnVdS> that used to coincide with ddoses of the major exchanges
<bashrc> don't really care about bitcoin
<ikonia> is that really a good indicator ?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: unlikely
<ikonia> just wondered as I'm not up on the coin mining stuff
<bashrc> reading about the "intelligence" group ddosing irc servers earlier indicates to me that many of those events may be state sponsored
<bashrc> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/war-anonymous-british-spies-attacked-hackers-snowden-docs-show-n21361
<ikonia> bashrc: I read through that also, but it seems unlikley that the UK government would nuke a UK education network and business network
<bashrc> yes
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: really?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: depends on how long
<bashrc> but if there's big money to be made by cyber subcontractors then steps might be taken
<ikonia> well, been down all morning from about 8:00 -ish to say 13:30 - still problems but they appear less
<awilkins> NSA and GCHQ and other cyber guys can run "exercises" whenever they like though
<awilkins> If the Navy does it they have to announce it
<bashrc> see the HBGary emails for that sort of plotting
<awilkins> If cyberintelligence does it they just blame script kiddies
<bashrc> an easy scapegoat
<awilkins> Someone was trying to break into my router yesterday I think
<awilkins> The SSH daemon was stressed as hell
<awilkins> Kept eating CPU time for no good reason, made my other connections really sluggish
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: was it logging stuff too?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: (because in that case, fail2ban would work)
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, I don't think I have much logging on
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: you could also teach iptables to only accept a low number of SYN packets per second for that port
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, I've had fail2ban on it in the past, but I think I turned it off after a couple of three-strikes disasters where I locked myself out
<bashrc> any idea how to limit syn packets?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: fail2ban can auto-unlock you after 5 minutes. Also, ssh keys -> no password -> no password mistypings -> no misblocking
<awilkins> I could probably alleviate this by making sure that I auth my keys BEFORE I try and connect (I may have been allowing password auth at the time, I certainly don't do that anymore)
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: yes, let me find that rule for you
<awilkins> fail2ban is Python right?
<awilkins> Not sure I have Python available for this crusty old build of OpenWRT
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/howto-limit-linux-syn-attacks.html
<bashrc> I already have fail2ban running
<davmor2> bigcalm, MartijnVdS: protobuf issue is now fixed
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: oh it's openwrt? Go for the firewall rules then :) Much easy.
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: *\o/*\
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, It's White Russian
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: ah, back when dinosaurs roamed the countryside
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: surely you mean î¿\o/î¿
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Not sure about my hardware compatibility
<awilkins> There are notes about Kamikaze needing tweaking to get the ports the right way around
<awilkins> It all just works and has done for a long time and I'm loathe to try bricking it for fun
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I mean âº\o/âº
<BigRedS> These USB-powered USB-stick form-factor ARM boxes, are there any powered by PoE?
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: USB-stick ARM boxes?
<BigRedS> that's a new mis-tab :)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: which kind of router do you have?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: uh yes, b<tab> :)
<awilkins> It's a Buffalo WRT-G54
<awilkins> Off top of head
<BigRedS> ooh
<awilkins> WBR G54
<BigRedS> er, wrong window.
<BigRedS> but MartijnVdS like the cotton candy: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Yd90SytrYCM/T9df-5Uq06I/AAAAAAAABnE/BjJON2oWWp0/s1600/cotton+candy+fxi.jpg
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: that one is only on the old wiki.. wow
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yeah, it's kind of old fashioned
<awilkins> Hence my not daring to touch what works
 * MartijnVdS has a TP-Link WNDR-4300 running with trunk
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: it'll do iptables won't it?
<awilkins> Probably
<MartijnVdS> oh WDR-4300, the WNDR4300 is a Netgear device (yay confusement)
<awilkins> I have a kind of simplified firewall library script on it
<awilkins> Makes it easy enough to open / forward ports
<awilkins> I wouldn't mind a new one but meh this one works
<awilkins> Wireless could be better
<awilkins> My daughters new tablet throws things into paroxysms of despair when she watches YouTube
<awilkins> But quite happy streaming Netflix to the Wii across a wireless bridge
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Get something that does N and AC -- they've just merged 802.11ac in trunk :)
<awilkins> AHHHH, that's why people were going on about AC in gaming workstation build videos on YouTube
<awilkins> I was thinking "what, this motherboard has built in air conditioning? THey're really serious about cooling now..."
<awilkins> I used to be totally into the hardware side of things
<awilkins> These days I just use whatever I have until it breaks or can't keep up
<awilkins> The interval gets longer each cycle
<awilkins> Suspect Elite : Dangerous and Star Citizen may provoke an upgrade that then lasts until I'm about 50
<awilkins> Unless they invent the Oculus Rift 2.0 - now with full sensorium! And complementary subscription to the Spearmint Rhino channel on Youtube!
<MartijnVdS> yeah, I'm losing the upgrade vibe as well.. except maybe with phones
<awilkins> Phones have built in obsolescence now though
<awilkins> Battery fade
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> although my htc desire is nearly 4yrs old
<awilkins> On a non-user-replaceable bnattery
<awilkins> Wonder how hard it is to swap out the battery on the Nexus4
<knightwise> There are some great android apps that you can use on a broken phone
<knightwise> turn them into a server and stuff like that
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: ifixit has a teardown/howto I think
<knightwise> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.icecoldapps.serversultimate&hl=en
<awilkins> Still happy enough with the battery life on the N4 though
<knightwise> N4 is a great phone
<awilkins> I'm not usually far from a USb port
<knightwise> the N5 is pretty sexy too (got to play with one yesterday)
<awilkins> Jus tmake sure I carry the cable in my back pocket all the time
<bigcalm> davmor2: safe to update now?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yes I pinged you ages ago
<awilkins> Only thing I really want on my N4 is a SD card slot...
<awilkins> I get Google's reason for wanting to exclude it. The one they claim, and the actual one.
<awilkins> Even if you had to format the thing into an LVM volume group and it was totally useless as transferrable storage I'd still like an SD card slot
<davmor2> awilkins: the if there is no storage you will use our cloud
<awilkins> Because 16GB just isn't enough
<awilkins> davmor2, Yeah, that's the real reason. None of this "we want to avoid all the tricksyness of having removable storage" nonsense - because they just did a total U-turn on that position in KitKAt by having pluggable storage locations like "My Dropbox" and stuff
<directhex> google don't want you to use local storage
<directhex> they want you to use google drive
<directhex> and in general, phone vendors want to avoid slots as slots fail
<awilkins> Indeed. Local storage doesn't let them collect intelligence unless they are being sneaky
<awilkins> Whereas Drive storage lets them collect intelligence just by dint of being used
<awilkins> Maybe one of those personal cloud drives
<awilkins> Wireless hotspot, big fat battery, space for a drive
<awilkins> My actual listened to music collection is probably much less than 6GB anyway
<knightwise> Galaxy note 3
<knightwise> ticks boxes above
<awilkins> knightwise, Was thinking more one of these : http://www.scan.co.uk/products/icy-box-ib-wf200hd-25-sata-ssd-wireless-11n-usb-30-portable-enclosure-with-2800mah-battery
<awilkins> The Note 3 being a full-fat phone and thus disconbobulatingly expensive
<bigcalm> Restart and shutdown are odd things. Selecting either produces the same selection screen to appear. Both also have shutdown pre-highlighted
<bigcalm> davmor2: updating my laptop has made it stop working :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yay
<bigcalm> davmor2: it's working after a 2nd reboot
<bigcalm> davmor2: I updated and rebooted. Got to the login screen but no mouse or keyboard input
<davmor2> bigcalm: by stop working do you mean you couldn't type your login in?
<bigcalm> Pressed the power button and it gave me shutdown options that I couldn't select
<bigcalm> davmor2: had to press and hold power
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes. But it worked this time
<bigcalm> Will try rebooting again
<davmor2> bigcalm: if it happens again then try hitting ctrl+alt+f1 if that work login and restart lightdm
<bigcalm> Still working. How odd
<davmor2> bigcalm: normally the mouse works if that does you can just click on any of the indicators on the lightdm screen and that will unlock it
<davmor2> bigcalm: apparently lightdm sometimes gets a race condition with the keyboard
<bigcalm> I did try ctrl alt f1-6, no input was working at all other than pressing the power button :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you ever get the feeling that a laptop hated you?
<bigcalm> davmor2: Not really, I think it's Ubuntu
<popey> known issue
<bigcalm> Ubuntu hating me is a known issue?
<popey> couple of people here had an issue this morning
<shauno> I haven't had an issue with Ubuntu hating bigcalm </anecdotal>
<bigcalm> Hehe
<davmor2> shauno: change you name to bigcalm 's it will instantly hunt you down and try to kill you ;)
<davmor2> well short-circuit your laptop at least
<MartijnVdS> â«Transformers
<bigcalm> Maybe I shouldn't bring the new laptop tonight. davmor2 might try to teach it bad things
<popey> bigcalm: did you get the login screen?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: like.. bark at you when you come too close? ;)
<popey> or does the screen look all screwy before that appears
<bigcalm> popey: I got to the login screen
<bigcalm> popey: but it's work correctly for the last 2 reboots now
<popey> have you updated since it went wrong?
<bigcalm> popey: it was after updating that I saw the issue
<popey> right, but have you updated since?
<bigcalm> popey: not since 15:30 GMT
<popey> can you?
<bigcalm> One mo
<popey> bigcalm: also, you might be able to work around it by installing gdm and use that instead of lightdm
<bigcalm> popey: only package it wants to update is liblivemedia15
<popey> ok
<bigcalm> popey: I haven't had the issue since that one time. There's nothing for me to work around it would seem :)
<popey> oh okay
<popey> sorry, misunderstood
<bigcalm> Oops, my bad. It wants to remove liblivemedia15 :)
<bigcalm> popey: it's the sunshine over there, it's bad for you
<popey> the beer didnt help
<popey> went out last night, got a bit tiddly
<bigcalm> Yay :)
<bigcalm> popey: I've seen what you do with balloons. Nightmares for me tonight
<popey> the wings in that place were excellent
<bigcalm> I want wings
<bigcalm> Will enjoy the pulled pork at tonight's LUG though
<popey> we had pulled pork for lunch yesterday
<popey> and the day before
<popey> and the wings last night had the bones removed, so were even more amazing
<diplo> Guys, I'm a bit out of date with technology offerings at the mo so quick ask here before I start googling around
<diplo> We have a customer who wants a new site down the road, ADSL sucks on the estate, can't cable to the site
<diplo> Laser type thing the only option with LOS type set up, I haven't looked at laser links for about 8 years
<bigcalm> TCP/IP/Pigeons
<directhex> trucks filled with tapes. unbeatable bandwidth
<bigcalm> diplo: sorry, we can't help it :)
<bigcalm> Request from a client "It would be useful if the timestamps associated with incoming and outgoing log events were displayed with finer resolution than a minute. Displaying seconds would be good, and tenths (or hundredths?) of a second would be ideal. Thanks!"
 * bigcalm grumbles at the resolution
<shauno> diplo: there's some radio links that don't look too bad.  ubiquiti have a 2.4GHz rig that'll sling 100mbit over 20-30km LOS for about 130 quid, and a 24GHz rig that'll sling 1.4gbit about half the distance (but 2700gbp for two stations)
<shauno> I've no experience with either, I just have bad memories of not being able to login at college because we had laser between two campuses, and were half a mile from the north sea
<shauno> irish sea, whichever; suffice to say there was regularly enough optical inteference
<bigcalm> Anybody here using slack.com ?
<diplo> shauno: I've just found that myself thanks, looks good and reviews look food
<diplo> Mine was by nanobridge but same sort of thing
<diplo> 5ghz though
<diplo> Â£70 ea dish, so Â£140 + whatever else you need to hook it up
<shauno> I can't remember why I came across them.  my head's full of useless stuff :)
<df_> #join freenode
<diplo> I've only ever looked into laser, and that was 8+ years ago
<diplo> :/
<shauno> all I know is don't go for laser if you're by the seaside :)
<shauno> it doesn't like rain or mist
<bigcalm> Don't live in the UK then
<diplo> This is worcester so should be ok :)
<bigcalm> Had
<bigcalm> -d
<bigcalm> diplo: you're in Worcester?
<diplo> I'm not, my customer is
<diplo> I'm near Bath, my headoffice is in Nottingham
<bigcalm> Ah
<davmor2> diplo: you don't want to look into lasers it could blind you :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: just you and me at the LUG tonight then?
<davmor2> And possibly Ron and then there is james and gretchin and possibly sam and simon and then there is always Pete Oliver who just randomly turns up so who knows.  If these people put there names down we might have a better idea :)
<bigcalm> They never do though :/
<bigcalm> I was really surprised to see Pete Oliver the last 2 times
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah he's a great guy really knowledgeable too
<bigcalm> davmor2: with Chris' tweet, think it might be a bit far for him to attend tonight
<bigcalm> I'll try and leave home at a reasonable time and try not to be late for a change
<davmor2> bigcalm: ha I'll believe it when I see it workaholic boy
<bigcalm> I was so lazy as a school child. I don't understand why I work so much now
<davmor2> bigcalm: penance
<bigcalm> I work for pennies?
<davmor2> bigcalm: peanuts you mean ;)
<MartijnVdS> pants?
<bigcalm> It's drive time!
<daftykins> look how many boats are hiding from the stormy winds behind Cherbourg (the peninsula of France, just beside me here in the Channel Islands)
<daftykins> http://www.digimap.gg/ais
<daftykins> 28 foot waves in the middle of the channel this morning! D:
<shauno> ooh, pants
<daftykins> o rly
<shauno> odd.  I've always found https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ oddly interesting, but yours shows a lot more
<shauno> ahh nm me, stuff disappears at different zoom levels
<DJones> Anyway, talking about bad weather on islands.... Here's isleofmandan
<isleofmandan> Hello :)
<isleofmandan> Not been too bad today. The sea walls were already destroyed ;)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> Guernsey's getting ravaged here
<DJones> isleofmandan: Thats a typical northen answer, the worlds ending, but its not been too bad today
<isleofmandan> We had it worse in January - high tide, very low pressure storm and wind...    This weekend wasn't quite so bad in comparison.    According to the statisticians, we've had 3  'once in 50 year' storm events in the last 4 weeks :)
<daftykins> XD
<isleofmandan> And last year we had 'snowmageddon' and loss of 1000s of livestock :(
<isleofmandan> Methinks the climate is definitely changing!
<DJones> isleofmandan: How many MP's and heirs to the throne came visiting...
<DJones> I'll guess none
<isleofmandan> Since we're not in the UK, I don't think MP's care... We did get a visit from Princess Anne the other week. It rained. Heavily. She had to reschedule her day!  :)
<shauno> that almost sounds like a stroke of luck
<isleofmandan> It made me laugh, anyway. Was also foggy too, and here on the island there is a myth that Mannanan (Viking sea god) shrouds the island in mist to protect it from invaders ;)
<zleap> lol
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i wonder if the channel islands have such fun myths
<isleofmandan> We have a fair few here. Comes with the Celt and Viking history, I suppose.    I'm not at all superstitious or religious, but even I wave to the fairies at the Fairy Bridge, just in case!
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> actually we do have a whole fairy people thing i think
<isleofmandan> I think most islands have something quirky. People had to find something to amuse themselves before boats and planes were invented.
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> yippee - memory gample paid off - this ol' Dell *can* address 4GB DDR2
 * SuperEngineer smiles
<SuperEngineer> [btw - sub gample/gamble
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> and the graphics? yet to arrive?
<SuperEngineer> nope... deliberately ordered so it arrives after DDRS - to give time to cry if needed for the mem ;)
<daftykins> i remember you said ja
<daftykins> not been keen to pop the can and read the PSU rating?
<SuperEngineer> nah!  :D
<SuperEngineer> it's paid for - it will arrive - let's see if connectors available first [as I think they are] - then I'll see what might be possible
<SuperEngineer> [if not poss - expect to see GeForce 650 on ebay soon ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...and the only thing I "popped" was a beer to celebrate
<daftykins> most come with molex to <whichever pin count connector> it uses
<SuperEngineer> do they also come with a fire extinguisher... just in case ;)
 * SuperEngineer now running all apps [mail, rss, irc, browser, gpodder playback, hotot [twitter], Steam et all
<foobarry> never knew about this motorola migrate app
<foobarry> migrates pics, movies, messages, the lot
<shauno> I think reCapatcha has evolved to the point where if you can fill in the text, you're probably a bot
<foobarry> the left or right box?
<foobarry> lovely new phone is lovely
<foobarry> shame i have to hand it back to wifey
<mapps> urgh this is such a pain
<mapps> having to try and write an xml config so i can use an http proxy over 3g
<mapps> cba
<oly> hi, can anyone tell me how you enable boot logging on recent ubuntus ?
<oly> internet suggestes /etc/default/bootlogd but that does not seem to exist
<daftykins> oly: i think you install something like bootchart first? not sure
<oly> giving it a try. seems silly that you would need that to log the boot messages
<oly> surely it would be part of any distro to help with debugging
<oly> i can see an error about firmware on boot but it disappears in seconds so no idea what it actually says :p
<oly> bootchart does ot seem to enable the boot log :/
<aquarius> hey, people. If you open up User Accounts from the Dash, does your user account have your actual name in it, or just your login username? And does it have a picture of you?
<aquarius> I'm trying to get a sense of whether I'm the only person alive who's filled this stuff in
<aquarius> (If you're not running Unity, it's the User Accounts section of System Settings, or the Gnome Control Center. If you're running KDE, don't worry; that's a different system that doesn't concern me right now.)
<AlanBell> aquarius: actual name and photo taken during the install process on the laptop webcam
<aquarius> cool.
<aquarius> so it's not just me...although it might be just me and AlanBell. Anyone else? :)
<AlanBell> I didn't have the photo there until I reinstalled at some point and the new installer offered the photo
<AlanBell> so I suspect new installs done on laptops with a built in webcam are most likely to have photos
<aquarius> AlanBell, agreed. I personally have my hackergotchi there, which is my icon everywhere, which means that it's explicitly user-settable, but I'm almost certainly the only person to do that :)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-06
<mapps> so windy outside
<mapps> need a new series to watch hm
<mapps> everyone sleeping?
<mapps> cant figure out this openVPn thing..it drops connection on iOS pause (network unavaliable)_ but its not i can discnnect/reconnect immediately
<mapps>  it doesnt even make sense :D it seems to lose connection ..openvpn ios app will say pause (network unavliable) even though my server is up and i can reconnect..but get this..its done that and i cant access the net..but im getting whatsapp notifications? wich needs net..when i go on whatsapp it cant connect
<daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-26059644
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=I7_HY2NKkD4#t=88
<popey> pip pip
<jussi> oooh... I spy, with my little eye, 1 little... err.. popey :D
<[1]MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> yawn!
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jussi> o/
<jussi> \o/
<MooDoo> morning you two
<jussi> morning MooDoo
<jussi> what is everyone having for breakfast today?
<MooDoo> coffee
<jussi> Ive got Tea, rye bread with butter, cheese and vegemite...
<jussi> and some yoghurt (not on the rye bread)
<jussi> :D
<MooDoo> sounds lovely
<MooDoo> jussi, how was fosdem?
<jussi> MooDoo: no idea, wasnt there
<MooDoo> ah hmmm wonder why i thought you went lol
<MooDoo> jussi, ah one of the speakers was a jussi, i added 2+2 and got 10
<jussi> MooDoo: in finland, jussi is about as popular as john is in the UK
<MooDoo> that explains that then
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<jussi> moar tea!!
<jussi> :)
 * brobostigon points at his mouth and says "insert coffee here, please."
<MooDoo> foooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood
<brobostigon> breakkie
<jussi> brobostigon: whats for brekkie?
<brobostigon> buttered toast
<jussi> no vegemite? :D
<brobostigon> no
 * jussi grins
<MooDoo> yuck.....now bovril on the other hand ;)
<jussi> my wife cant understand why I like vegemite...
<MooDoo> jussi, it's coz your nuts?
<jussi> MooDoo: maybe... I am an aussie...
<jussi> hrm... you know how android has each program in its own sandbox/user?  would it be impractical to do that on linux? does it already exist?
<brobostigon> its already done, for things like apache and those kinds of things.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Busby Babes Day! :-)
<MooDoo> hello JamesTait
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<jussi> brobostigon: yeah, Ive seen it for somethings, like apache, like openerp. but what about desktop apps?
<brobostigon> it should be possible, i dont see why not.
<jussi> would it be useful do you think?  would it add security ?
<brobostigon> possibly for things like chrome or FF, however chrome sandboxes its tabs already in that way.
<bigcalm> Anybody here using nvidia-331 with nvidia-prime and get this bug 1276816 ?
<lubotu3> bug 1276816 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-331 (Ubuntu) "Unable to select Intel in PRIME Profiles within nvidia-settings" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1276816
<bigcalm> I'm guessing not
<MooDoo> didn't you uninstall it?
<bigcalm> davmor2: convinced me to give it another try
<bigcalm> This is the sort of fun we get up to at our fortnightly LUG meetings in the pub
<foobarry> if android has a sandbox, how can certain apps crash my phone?
<dwatkins> do you give them root, foobarry?
<MartijnVdS> also, which apps?
<foobarry> no dwatkins
<foobarry> twitter, adobe reader,
<foobarry> maybe the phone got bored waiting for something to happen
<foobarry> "All stop errors due to problems with NTFS or FAT have encoded in their first parameter the source file and the line number within the source file that generated the stop error. The high 16 bits (the first four hexadecimal digits after 0x) identify the source file number, and the lower 16 bits (the last four hexadecimal digits of the parameter) identify the source line in the file where the stop occurred."
<foobarry> anyone know how to find the file name from a stop error?
<foobarry> brother has a 0x24 BSOD when he tries to boot windows
<dwatkins> it's shown on the BSOD
<dwatkins> iirc there's an app which will recreate the screen based on the dump file it created, can't remember what it's called, though
<dwatkins> here it is, foobarry - http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html
<foobarry> handy
<foobarry> except pc won't boot :(
<dwatkins> oh bah
<dwatkins> even in safe mode?
<foobarry> nope
<dwatkins> it's hosed, then
<foobarry> needs a chkdsk
<dwatkins> perhaps it was just that the disk failed
<foobarry> he has kids
<foobarry> so i'm thinking maybe corrupt fs.
<foobarry> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=228888&sd=RMVP
<dwatkins> seems logical - the presence of a child's magnetic field can easily corrupt any hard disk if the child is supplied with enough biscuits and milk.
<foobarry> http://ubuntuone.com/3TS5gzkt4XNSLCj6v7gnKF
<dwatkins> do you have a CD to hand which you can do a repair installation from, foobarry?
<dwatkins> i.e. OS install CD
<foobarry> i was gonna text him to ask that.
<foobarry> wonder if ubuntu can fix it
<foobarry> i have access to wixp disks somewhere
<bigcalm> Is there a device I can hook up to my desktop so that it'll make a noise when I get a skype call? I appear to have missed a few calls due to not having my headset on
<foobarry> a usb phone?
<bigcalm> And works in Linux
<jussi> bigcalm: skype has (or used to have) a config option to have it ring on your speakers, regardless of headset
<dwatkins> bigcalm: just plug a normal phone into the PC: http://www.echostore.com/skype-phone-adaptor-usb.html
<jussi> bigcalm: alternately, do youhave a smart phone? just run skype there all the time and it will ring...
<bigcalm> jussi: I don't have speakers :)
<foobarry> go to the dump
<foobarry> usually some lying around
<bigcalm> Having skype on my phone is not something that appeals to me
<bigcalm> I have a skype-phone-adaptor, but I don't think it works in Linux. I don't know any that do
<dwatkins> bigcalm: see link above ;)
 * bigcalm reads
<foobarry> cute. looks...old
<foobarry> fedora core 3 driver only
<dwatkins> there are probably newer ones
<bigcalm> Sod it, I'll put skype on my phone :(
<foobarry> the war of attrition
<foobarry> we always yield in the end
<foobarry> (except RMS)
<jussi> bigcalm: you could just stop using skype :P
<foobarry> sipdroid?
<foobarry> or does cyanogen/android just handle it all now
<bigcalm> jussi: get my clients to do the same
<directhex> SIP doesn't work.
<foobarry> which asepct specifically directhex ?
<directhex> foobarry, the "IP address is burned into the SIP packets so it can't be NATted successfully without use of a proxy server or a router which rewrites every incoming & outgoing packet" aspect
<foobarry> isn't that why you sign up with a sip gateway provider?
<foobarry> i think you can even dial skype contacts too
<dvrr> Hiii good morning all
<dwatkins> I use sipgate.co.uk, I can log in from my phone and accept calls at an 0118 number
<foobarry> dwatkins: how much u pay?
<dwatkins> if you're behind a NAT router, you'll need a device outside the router to log into, I think it's called a SIP endpoint
<foobarry> what's the battery drain like to allow ur phone to receive calls?
<dwatkins> foobarry: nothing, I never make outgoing calls with it, just have it as an alternative number for people to call
<dwatkins> I don't notice any extra battery drain.
<Blinky_>  Hi guys, could someone please tell me how to set the permissions on my /var/www directory so that new adding files can be seen on the website?
<foobarry> dwatkins: or referred to as a pbx i assume
<dwatkins> foobarry: not necessarily, a pbx tends to be one connected physically to phones
<foobarry> or a virtual pbx
<dwatkins> http://technews.tmcnet.com/channels/sip-end-points/articles/218483-what-sip-endpoints.htm
<foobarry> https://www1.pbxes.com/index_e.php
<dwatkins> also known as a proxy server in the SIP world, I think
<foobarry> beware oboxious flash movie
<dwatkins> oh? I have adblock and other such things so I don't see silly things like that
<foobarry> on the pbxes site
<MooDoo> oh blinky didn''t stay long
<foobarry> don't blink
<MooDoo> no statues in here is there?
<MooDoo> AlanBell, sounds like your having bot issues.....
<TheOpenSourcerer> What's the clock indicator thinggy called again? Has disappeared from the bar? :-(
<jpds> TheOpenSourcerer: indicator-datetime?
<davmor2> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - how do I restart just that then?
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<jpds> TheOpenSourcerer: Seems to be /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-datetime-service here.
<TheOpenSourcerer> So how do I restart it without killing Unity?
<TheOpenSourcerer> killall unity-panel-service perhaps?
<davmor2> bigcalm: why you been banding my nick around now?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep. That worked.
<MooDoo> davmor2, he wanted to know who is the best person to stab, and that would be you ;)
<bigcalm> Haha
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh well that goes without saying just ask czajkowski
<MooDoo> davmor2, I've not spoken to her in awhile, don't think I dare any more ;)
<xalyy> Hello everyone
<xalyy> I have a question is ubuntu 13.10 good for KVM I mean opening a VPS hosting? I would like to open a reliable host, but need to know which OS would be good for a virtualization
<MooDoo> xalyy,so you want to use ubuntu as a kvm host?
<xalyy> Yes if possible because I can't configure CentOS and I used ubuntu before and thats fit better for me
<kvarley> Anybody know how I can find the cause of an "Unresponsive script" message in firefox
<kvarley> It says it's a library file causing it but I want to see the parent call
<kvarley> Nothing shows in the web console
<davmor2> xalyy: then you want the lts not 13.10 there is no support life on 13.10
<MooDoo> xalyy, I don't see why you can't use it :)
<xalyy> So its possible without any problem? :)
<davmor2> kvarley: Does ps aux show anything?
<MooDoo> xalyy, well I can't comment on that as i've never used it, but the server is used for cloud hosting so I don't see why it should give you any problems
<kvarley> davmor2: Well it's a javascript loop taking too long to run, I want to see what loop it gets stuck in :)
<xalyy> I am asking this because if the KVM runs better on CentOS then I have to solve my problem on it but if it runs the same then I install again ubuntu
<MooDoo> xalyy,if you have the hard ware, then try it :D
<xalyy> But I have to know it exactly because I suck with CentOS for like three days, and renting a dedicated is not cheap :(
<davmor2> xalyy: Ubuntu was the first distro to officially support and ship kvm as a default vm mechanism.
<xalyy> Wow :D
<MooDoo> ah right, well then I'm not sure of the differrence with centos and ubuntu for virtulisation
<xalyy> Then no problems :)
<MartijnVdS> there isn't much difference, I think
<MooDoo> yay
<xalyy> Ok
<MartijnVdS> both prefer libvirt and kvm
<xalyy> And I heard 14.04 is just released few days ago what are the new featerus? Do I give a shot for it?
<xalyy> Features*
<MooDoo> xalyy, 14.04 is released in april
<MooDoo> officially
<davmor2> xalyy: I would recommend 12.04 over 13.10 due to the support though.  13.10 only has 9 months support.  12.04 is nearly 2 years old and has another 3 years of support
<foobarry> xalyy: the .04 means the fourth month of teh year
<xalyy> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<xalyy> But look it says febr 5
<foobarry> that's not the release ver.
<MooDoo> xalyy,is that beta?
<foobarry> just the wonder of open source let you kick the tyres and report bugs
<xalyy> Ohhh ok :D
<xalyy> I stay with 13.10
<foobarry> !trusty
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 14.04 (Trusty Tahr) will be the 20th release of Ubuntu.  See the announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1295 for more info. support in #ubuntu+1
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<davmor2> xalyy: Current mean the current daily testing release not the current released version for general use
<xalyy> But I can download here the 13.10 nah?
<davmor2> xalyy: if you plan on doing this for a server use 12.04 not 13.10
<xalyy> Server use?
<xalyy> Why would I use the older verison
<MooDoo> xalyy, it's LTS long term support
<xalyy> Can you give me a link then where to download?
<MooDoo> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server
<davmor2> xalyy: it's been tried and tested for 2 years so a lot of the bugs are closed, it is designed for server and business and it has another 3 years of support over the 9 months that 13.10 has
<xalyy> Ohh ok
<xalyy> And this is without desktop enviroment?
<MooDoo> xalyy,yes
<xalyy> Okay
<MooDoo> but you can install it if you wanted but why would you do that on a server :D
<xalyy> Lol how would I manage my vps?
<MooDoo> xalyy, SSH?
<xalyy> Without DE
<xalyy> No no its too messy :D
<xalyy> Its easier in VNC
<MooDoo> xalyy, then you'd have to think about installing a desktop environment and use VNC or something else
<MooDoo> xalyy, kits of tutorials on the web about doing this - http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-install-gui-on-ubuntu-12-04-precise-server.html
<MooDoo> as an example
<xalyy> I know how to install
<xalyy> I said I used before :D
<xalyy> But ty
<MooDoo> fair enough :D
<foobarry> what do you mean "manage your vps"
<xalyy> KVM VPS management?
<foobarry> provision vms?
<xalyy> http://wordpress.banym.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/kvm-10.jpg
<foobarry> you can remote display an app over ssh
<foobarry> also there's lots of good commind line tools
<dwatkins> yeah, but it's hideously slow
<foobarry> not worth using vnc for this
<foobarry> desktop on a server = not best practice
<dwatkins> I tend to use NX for remote display via ssh, as the old ssh -X redirection of just the window isn't very well optimised
<foobarry> nx is nifty
<xalyy> It can handle it, its not an intel atom dedicated server
<xalyy> No worries
<davmor2> xalyy: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Management_Tools
<foobarry> got enough RAM ?
<xalyy> 24 gb
<xalyy> But whats that?
<foobarry> installing and running desktop environment on a server is the windows approach to things
<foobarry> you add unnecessary overhead
<foobarry> CLI tools are quicker
<dwatkins> yeah, thin clients aren't really worth the hassle
<dwatkins> I have a friend who is a teacher, it can take longer than the length of the lesson to log in to the thin client to do the register
<foobarry> it pains me when i see windows admins rdesktop to server to get things done
<bashrc> thin clients were an idea whose time never came
<foobarry> takes 10x longer
<directhex> ahem
<dwatkins> foobarry: that's because Windows doesn't tend to allow command line stuff for most things
<directhex> if you're using kvm, you should be managing it with libvirt
<directhex> if you're managing it with libvirt, you can use virt-manager on your local desktop to manage things remotely - vm creation & monitoring, etc
<directhex> i use virt-manager for gui access to virtual machines on hosts in london
<xalyy> http://www.howtogeek.com/117635/how-to-install-kvm-and-create-virtual-machines-on-ubuntu/ is this a good guide?
<foobarry> directhex: does it use port 22?
<directhex> foobarry, it uses whichever port you run your sshd on
<directhex> xalyy, seems reasonable, for a local desktop/laptop
<foobarry> ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> virt-manager FTW!
<foobarry> ugly tool though innit
<foobarry> even cli is prettier
<TheOpenSourcerer> It works though.
<xalyy> Directhex
<dwatkins> I use irssi because I prefer the command line for everything possible.
<MooDoo> yay irssi
<xalyy> Then guys can you show me an example which would a starting VPS business guy use?
<xalyy> I mean why this isnt good for business use?
<directhex> basically the same guide, but do the "virt-manager" install only on your local laptop - the rest should be on the server.
<directhex> then run virt-manager locally, File, Add Connection, Connect to remote host, fill in the boxes
<directhex> now virt-manager on your laptops talks to remote VPS host
<xalyy> Ugh :D
<foobarry> you mean yay :D
<MooDoo> xalyy lol you want to start on this rocky road :D
<foobarry> this is the best advice you could get on the subject
<xalyy> Yes but I only start a VPS business if my method will fail
<foobarry> i suggest you take it
<xalyy> So first I test for myself then if not works what I planned then open business or sell the dedicated
<xalyy> thats it :P
<xalyy> Do I get a fresh install if I install this server.iso?
<xalyy> I messed up centos a little
<foobarry> not being funny but i wouldn't buy a service from someone who isn't expert
<foobarry> i'd use bytemark or rackspace etc
<dwatkins> I'd just use AWS.
<xalyy> Where I will sell its not really matters are you an expert or not :P
<xalyy> They just buy if it's not good for them then I will refund if good they keep it, thats it
<foobarry> really?
<xalyy> Simple
<foobarry> i have a nuclear reactor i made in my shed,. wanna buy?
<MooDoo> foobarry, only if I get to play with the good stuff :)
<bashrc> fission or fusion?
<foobarry> bashrc: i am not an expert, i just followed online guide
<xalyy> No no I talked seriously :P
<foobarry> if it doesn't work, i'll refund u
<bashrc> how many megawatts?
<xalyy> So does this give me a fresh install? :D
<foobarry> i am sitting at my desk about 100 yds away from the site of a nuclear reactor
<foobarry> true story
<foobarry> *old site of nuclear reactor
<TheOpenSourcerer> I create fusion reactions in my stomach... Just eat some superhot chillies ;-)
<MooDoo> hmmm superhot chiilies
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Mr Fusion is you? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> This year's season so far: https://plus.google.com/photos/104060033182234025482/albums/5975387695779422977
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: looks a bit like what the police took out of the house when my upstairs neighbor was forced to leave ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some of my chilli growing friends have been visited by the Police recently... The Coppers find it all rather strange.
<foobarry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Mary_University_of_London#Nuclear_reactor
<mapps> hm get so many leaflets for fast food through my door
<MooDoo> tell me about it, the posties get paid for delivering crap
<neuro> MORNING UBUNTIANS
<neuro> or ... ubunters?
<neuro> ubuntanians?
<neuro> speaking of virtualisation ...
<neuro> anyone tried doing that on a host from OVH?
<neuro> aka kimsufi aka soyoustart
<neuro> i think you have to do some tomfoolery with virtual MACs to assign to their "failover" (additional) IPs, but I've never tried it
<mapps> hey neuro
<neuro> lo mapps
<neuro> sounds like a "no" then :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it *is* a very specific question :)
<neuro> true
<foobarry> are sony stopping making laptops?
<neuro> possibly
<davmor2> foobarry: sounds like it from the news
<neuro> there's chat about them selling the business a la ibm to lenovo
<davmor2> neuro: I thought they were just going to concentrate on tablets and phones so they would still want people there I guess
<neuro> the vaio and xperia business units are separate iirc
<davmor2> neuro: fair enough then :)
<neuro> i had a vaio Z600-LEK
<neuro> was my first ever laptop, loved it to bits
<foobarry> i had a vaio cckkkakzkxkxkccr
<foobarry> worst model names ever
<neuro> hehe
<neuro> ah, thought i had some pics somewhere
<neuro> http://wpa.io/pics/2001/05/vaio/?01
<MartijnVdS> vaios look nice, but they're plastic and break easily
<MartijnVdS> mine does anyway
<dwatkins> I used to have a Nokia phone like that
<neuro> yeah, they always have been
<foobarry> i had a purple alu one
<dwatkins> 6210
<neuro> dwatkins: nokia 6210
<foobarry> login to server m.outlook.com failed
<dwatkins> :)
<neuro> greatest phone i ever had
<dwatkins> yeah, nice fast menus, none of the extraneous crap you don't need
<neuro> totally
<neuro> dual band, wap, all kinds of awesome
<dwatkins> I knew someone with a similar phone that had two SIM cards
<dwatkins> possibly the type used in the film The Matrix which flips out
<foobarry> the nokia banana phone? i had that
<foobarry> first company phone
<dwatkins> they were great, until they seized-up
<directhex> well.actuallk.cat
<directhex> bah
<neuro> http://neuro.me.uk/bitsnbobs/matrixphone/
<directhex> the matrix used a phone with no click mechanism
<dwatkins> aha, I wondered why it was slightly different
<neuro> they modded the 8110s for the movie
<directhex> yep, what neuro said
<directhex> the 8110 was an *old* phone
<directhex> the 7110 was modern - big screen, wap, etc
<neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7110
<directhex> i've owned both
<neuro> i had a mate who had one
<neuro> the only good thing about the 7110 was the 'snikt' matrix action
<directhex> that was amazing though
<neuro> haha, reference 5 on that 7110 wikipedia page
<directhex> :D
<ali1234> so who actually came up with the idea of putting a spring inside the cover?
<ali1234> nokia, or some prop designer?
<neuro> probably the latter
<ali1234> hmm... i know who would know
<neuro> which reminds me, i've let a domain lapse ...
<MooDoo> neuro, you mean your isp doesn't auto renew domains for you?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you mean, you trust your ISP? :)
<neuro> ISP? domains?
<neuro> i am my own registrar
<MooDoo> silly me
<neuro> well, an opensrs reseller at least
<MartijnVdS> srsrly
<neuro> srsly
 * jussi grumbles ion the general openerp direction
<MartijnVdS> jussi: anion or cation?
<MooDoo> it's not that hard to be a reseller iirc
<neuro> never said it was
<jussi> MartijnVdS: mrghrghrhg
<neuro> iirc it was 90 bucks and done
<MooDoo> sorry wasn't having a dig :D
<neuro> :)
<foobarry> looks like my 80 chrome tabs have come to bite me
 * jussi bites foobarry
<jussi> :P
<dwatkins> I save my tabs with tabcloud
<foobarry> my window manager crashes when i get to 0MB RAM free
<foobarry> usually its a facebook tab that pushes over the edge
<MartijnVdS> why would you need 80 tabs though?
<foobarry> work
<foobarry> researching a problem
<foobarry> work in progress
<foobarry> bookmark managers in browsers are very poor
<neuro> well, that was quicker than i thought
<neuro> http://matrixphone.org/
<foobarry> yep, had that phone
<foobarry> i was accidentally cool for a while
<neuro> had my mod_proxy config all wrong, and had let the domain name lapse a while back
<neuro> surprised it wasn't snarfed by squatters
<MooDoo> lol I have one of them at home, but my sim doesn't fit it :D
<MooDoo> and you have to manually pull down the phone cover lol
<foobarry> was relieved to find my giffgaff sim turns into a micro sim very easily
<dwatkins> snip snip
<neuro> most mini sims do
<neuro> indeed
<foobarry> poke poke
 * neuro has a cutter somewhere
<foobarry> you just flex teh giffgaff ones
<foobarry> and the micro sim pops out of the daddy sim
<neuro> ah, that kind
<foobarry> yeah, sweet
<neuro> until you want to use the sim in a mini-sim device
<dwatkins> daughter sim
<neuro> then you need to buy one of those stupid plastic holders
<foobarry> i kept it
<neuro> that Galaxy SIIs hate
<foobarry> dwatkins: your dad has the moto g?
<dwatkins> haha
<neuro> i powered up my SII last night
<neuro> won't go any higher than 4.1.2 without being rooted
<dwatkins> I keep a Nokia 3510i just in case.
<neuro> which in my mind defeats the point
<neuro> god i hate android phones
<foobarry> turned on the moto g last night, and offered a android 4.4.2 update
 * neuro has a backup iphone 4, just in case
<dwatkins> Try supporting Android on tablets...
<MartijnVdS> neuro: at least they're not Apple phones
<neuro> MartijnVdS: nothing wrong with apple phones
<dwatkins> I actually prefer iOS to Android.
<neuro> moi aussi
<foobarry> will apple ever sell a non premium device?
<dwatkins> trÃ©s bien
<neuro> doubtful
<dwatkins> I thought they mad echeap versions of the iPhone 5
<foobarry> then the applefans are locked in forver
<dwatkins> *cheap
<neuro> no
<dwatkins> iPhone 5C
<neuro> the C in iphone 5C is for "colour"
<dwatkins> C for colourful
<neuro> it's basically an iphone 5 in a polycarb shell
<dwatkins> oh, they're not actually cheaper?
<neuro> same guts
<neuro> nope
<dwatkins> I thought they had less powerful processors etc.
<neuro> that was just the apple rumour mill making stuff up
<MooDoo> C is for cheaper model lol
<neuro> compared to the 5s, yeah
<dwatkins> shame, my iPhone 3GS is still fine for a lot of stuff
<neuro> they still tier the models though
<shauno> really?  I thought it'd be a bit slim to make a good doorstop
<neuro> you can get an 8GB 4S for $cheaper
<dwatkins> I miss having a 32GB phone to put my entire music collection on to.
<neuro> hahahaa
<DJones> Has any indication been given on when an UBuntu phone will be released without needing to install yourself
<MartijnVdS> shauno: maybe you can use it to stop the desk wobbling
<foobarry> DJones: i'm sure popey offers a personal install service too , for a price
<neuro> hornet:~ neuro$ du -sh /Volumes/Storage\ Bay/Music/iTunes/iTunes\ Media/Music
<neuro> 135G	/Volumes/Storage Bay/Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/Music
<foobarry> delivered by drone
<neuro> and by "drone", we mean an MQ-9 Reaper
 * DJones ducks
<dwatkins> not an owl
<neuro> "here's your package ..."
<foobarry> does anyone know about zram/compcache? https://code.google.com/p/compcache/
<neuro> "... and here's a Hellfire"
<neuro> boooom
<jussi> everything is driving me crazy today. Libreoffice crashing, openerp being evil, its just not fun anymore!!!
<neuro> libreoffice?
<neuro> crashing?
<neuro> shocker
<foobarry> somones dad on facebook is called stalin
<foobarry> :-|
<foobarry> real name
<popey> morning
<jussi> hey! its a popey!
<dwatkins> I have an annoy-a-tron in my office, but no-one's noticed it makes random creaking noises, probably because the building does that anyway.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: have it make the same noise as the evacuation alarm ;)
<ali1234> friend of mine had one of those whistle keyring things and then lost his keys
<ali1234> it would not trigger no matter how much he whistled
<ali1234> but it would activate at random times and we'd all start looking behind the couch etc
<ali1234> took us like a week to find it
<dwatkins> I had a keyring thing which I didn't know made a noise when you squished it, then we started hearing this random "boing" noise, and assumed a neighbor was playing computer games, turned out the keyring toy was under a box and got activated whenever we walked around,
<foobarry> what's the last kernel that 12.04 will get?
<foobarry> (barring security updates)
<DJones> foobarry: I think its getting the 3.5 kernel
<DJones> foobarry: http://askubuntu.com/questions/279391/quantal-backported-kernel-in-12-04-2-whats-going-on-there
<MartijnVdS> 12.04.3 even has raring
<MartijnVdS> and .4 has saucy backports
<MartijnVdS> Search for the "LTS enablement stack"
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Yeah thats what I was working up to, basically, it gets the latest kernel released for the most recent Ubuntu release
<DJones> foobarry: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<foobarry> need 3.11 or 3.14 :(
<foobarry> they probably stop 14.04 though?
<foobarry> for 12.04 backports
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: popey knows.
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: would be likely though -- by that time you shuold just install the new LTS instaed
<foobarry> yeah.
<foobarry> what's 14.04 getting kernel wise?
<popey> 3.13
<foobarry> thanks
<foobarry> so zswap but not zram
<MartijnVdS> + potentially LTS enablement from later kernels
<popey> 3.13 + stuff backported from 3.14
 * neuro gets some more money from second life
<neuro> s/more money/more free money/
<MartijnVdS> that still exists?!
<neuro> yup
<neuro> i have a complimentary premium account
<neuro> and premium accounts get a weekly stipend in L$
<neuro> so every few months I empty it out and bank it to paypal
<neuro> and between june and today, I "earned" about L$15K
<neuro> which is about US$55
<MartijnVdS> invest in btc ;)
<neuro> sod that
 * popey wonders what to spend his 0.00220293BTC on
<MartijnVdS> popey: a new car?
<neuro> a matchbox car maybe
 * neuro works that out at approx $17.77
<neuro> oops
<neuro> decimal place
<neuro> $1.78
<neuro> annoying things about the planet #15,691,642: having to wait til 6pm for a sales call from a potential supplier because it's 10am in san francisco :P
<mapps> hmm annoying..my router restarted and now my ubuntu machine wont connect
<daftykins> mapps: is it set to DHCP?
<mapps> daftykins,  thing is..my router restarts it gets cutoff as expected but then if i select my wifi from the list..it fails connecting? yet if i disable networking and re-enabl;e it'll connect??
<daftykins> oh wireless
<mapps> ya
<mapps> i just don't see why when i select it it cant connect after being dc but it works if i disbale?|
<daftykins> yeah that's quite odd. beyond my experience though i'm afraid as i don't use desktop ubuntu with wireless
<daftykins> anyone ever dealt with autodiscover SRV records in their DNS?
<shauno> deja vu
<daftykins> haha yeah i never did get around to sorting it
<daftykins> *** No Service location (SRV) records available for _autodiscover._tcp.cisa.gg
<daftykins> thats all i get
<daftykins> using openDNS
<daftykins> so i presume i'm setting it wrong
<daftykins> ah well i gave the email provider a shout so perhaps they can steer me right :)
<shauno> yeah I don't see it either.  but I do see an autodiscover.cisa.gg, so it should try the http-post to /Autodiscover/Autodiscover.xml first?
<diddledan__> daftykins: doing it via dig I get : _autodiscover._tcp.cisa.gg. 3600 IN	SRV	0 5 443 exchange.mse2010.com.cisa.gg.
<shauno> ooh really?  I don't.  oddness
<diddledan__> shauno: I ran the following: $ dig srv _autodiscover._tcp.cisa.gg
<daftykins> i did just this second create another
<daftykins> well, 8 mins ago
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zj4exy1n2sthazb/cisa-srv.jpg
<daftykins> theres how my provider looks
<daftykins> although i figured the trailing "." was probably wrong, so i removed it
<daftykins> there seems to be no place on my provider to set that it's TCP, so i created a second SRV that has "_autodiscover._tcp" as that first column field
<diddledan__> a trailing . indicates that the name it's attached to is fully-qualified
<diddledan__> without the . will cause the name to be relative to the parent it's defined within
<daftykins> ah yeah, doesn't belong that early on then perhaps
 * neuro just confused a US sales person by having a Scottish accent, but a 415 area code phone number
<daftykins> perhaps if i wait an hour and test again
<bigcalm> My regexing is arse. How do I test that a string has 'accont1' to 'account5' ?
<bigcalm> Is it /account[1-5]/ ?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: yes
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yes
<bigcalm> Amazing, okay :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: except it won't match "accont" ;)
<MartijnVdS> in that case, you need "accou?nt" :)
<neuro> daftykins: that's an awful looking DNS interface :)
 * bigcalm tickles MartijnVdS :P
<daftykins> neuro: eh, i chopped the view down a lot
<neuro> mine looks like this https://www.dropbox.com/s/88hy6c424nsc48q/Screenshot%202014-02-06%2018.32.06.png
<daftykins> hah
<neuro> i makey ze change to mister bind zone file, i run an update script to push it out to my nameservers and i sit back and grin
<shauno> s/grin/pray/
<neuro> nah, i do a sanity check before hand
<neuro> usually the only problem i have is forgetting to update the SOA serial
<shauno> our method seems to be; push update; put phone to silent
<bigcalm> OK (2 tests, 5 assertions)
<daftykins> i get the response if i pick my provider's nameserver as the one i'm querying
<bigcalm> Yay, thank you MartijnVdS :)
<daftykins> shauno: 8D
<neuro> shauno: hehe
<neuro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwCSyaUOet8
<shauno> I gotta say though, the only ns issues we've really had are well-meaning people "fixing" our mx record
<shauno> we still use mail.ouroriginaldomain for a specific purpose, because it's hardcoded in legacy equipment.  we keep getting people spotting it and pointing it to messagelabs
<shauno> then we have to panic and explain to them yet again that it's broken on purpose
<daftykins> hehe
<neuro> been there
<neuro> oldname.biz -> newname.com
<neuro> but loads of stuff using the .biz for auth, and an exchange/bes using it too
<shauno> even funnier is that we still haven't found anyone who can login to mail.legacy.  so it's just the little linux box that could now
<daftykins> ooh hang on i broke it taking out that one i created
<neuro> it's going to be that novell box plastered behind a wall, isn't it
<mapps> anyone use squid guard?
<daftykins> diddledan__: has your 'dig' of my domain also changed to have no entry now?
<shauno> oh no, we know where it is.  "could you turn that back on" has been another issue
<neuro> :)
<diddledan__> daftykins: it's still cached at what I reported just now
<daftykins> ah ok, i think i spotted what works
<ali1234> shauno: how's the wefax going?
<diddledan__> daftykins: upstreaming to 8.8.8.8 gives me an empty response
<daftykins> diddledan__: roger that ty
<shauno> I haven't touched it for a few days .. it's been a weird week
<ali1234> i tried using the "mobile" version of websdr and i noticed a few things
<ali1234> it has an option to increase the audio buffer, which helps. it also have a ppm error estimation right on the page, which seems to follow the skewing
<ali1234> i managed to get this: http://imagebin.org/291310
<shauno> hm, that's a lot more convincing.  wobble but less so
<ali1234> so i would say, try to eliminate the soundcard loopback, and make sure that everything is well buffered
<daftykins> diddledan__: thanks to your output i also saw i had to put a trailing '.' after the domain it needed to forward to \o/
<diddledan__> yeys
<diddledan__> although do you think discussing my output is appropriate for a family friendly channel? :-p
<daftykins> always
<daftykins> were you to do it again it should just report exchange.mse2010.com ?
<daftykins> instead of that .cisa.gg
<diddledan__> yes, it does
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan__> well done
<daftykins> so putting in _autodiscover._tcp was the answer
<daftykins> but if you try and do it via google @ 8.8.8.8 it just returns the pointer to my provider's DNS
<daftykins> which would probably still get the answer, just later? *shrug*
<diddledan__> lol @ email from netflix: Career criminal Milton breaks free from hell to pursue the cult that killed his daughter and abducted her baby, racing to save the infant before the group sacrifices her. Milton in turn is chased by Satan's right-hand man, a determined accountant.
<diddledan__> there's nothing worse than a determined accountant!
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan__> that's about the movie "Drive Angry"
<diddledan__> with nick cage
<daftykins> i wish people didn't :(
<daftykins> as it causes me to "Cycle Angry" :(
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: come to Amsterdam! We have lots of those ;)
<diddledan__> MartijnVdS: angry cyclists?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: yeah, especially after work they seem to be in such a rush to get home, traffic rules stop existing
<daftykins> i find that's accurate for car drivers more here, probably down to how many cyclists i hear you have!
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: a few ;)
<DJones> ***%$Â£^&*^$ Currys ripoff thieves, dad bought a new laptop, paid for the setup & training session and they haven't done half the things he paid for....Explanation was that they didn't have wifi
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> they do? or they have wired?
<DJones> .... daftykins Your guess is as good as mine, major high street store with no internet...MY ARSE
<diddledan__> DJones: if they didn't have the facility to do the job they shouldn't have advertised that they can do the job, methinks
<DJones> I can see a visit on Sunday with me going ballistic
<daftykins> DJones: oh the session was at their shop, ok
<DJones> They didn't install the windows updates they're supposed to
<MartijnVdS> maybe they hit their monthly bandwidth allowance 8-)
<daftykins> have your parents got dial-up or something?
<neuro> oh god
<MartijnVdS> neuro: DIAL-UP
<neuro> i'm watching this daft woman on tuesday night's newsnight try to talk about coding
<daftykins> *person
<diddledan__> neuro: oh? is it bad?
<neuro> it's THAT BAD
<neuro> http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/02/tory-boss-of-government-coding-education-initiative-cant-code-lottie-dexter/
<neuro> she claims a teacher could be trained to teach code "in a day"
<DJones> daftykins: They have broadband, which is obviously more than than the Currys store has
<daftykins> lmao
<MartijnVdS> neuro: sure, I can teach them "Hello World" in a day
<neuro> oh god
<neuro> paxman just asked "what is code"
<ali1234> a competent secondary maths teach *could* be train to teach coding in a day
<MartijnVdS> neuro: probably even simple loops (while true; do echo "Hello World; done)
<neuro> response: "it's how you make computers do things"
<daftykins> "you can build a website in an hour"
<daftykins> yeah 'cause websites count.
<neuro> MartijnVdS: there are specific fundamentals that i'd want a teacher to know before teaching
<neuro> daftykins: it gets worse
<ali1234> why wouldn't websites count?
<neuro> it gets so much worse
<ali1234> raeg
<daftykins> i don't think they ever should
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yes, because of the dreaded "Why?" from the children :)
<neuro> ali1234: a "website" is constructed from a markup language
<neuro> if you just sit in an IDE and type in HTML, it's not "code"
<neuro> neither is css
<ali1234> markup language which is quite likely to have been generated by code, and will then be further modified by javascript
<neuro> granted if you move into JS/AJAX/et al, or dynamically construct the page in PHP/Perl/Python/Ruby/Go/etcetcetc, *then* you're coding
<neuro> but if you're building a website "in an hour", you're not coding
<ali1234> any why isn't html considered coding?
<neuro> because it's a markup language
<ali1234> coding isn't just about instructions. it is also about data. in fact data is arguably more important
<neuro> it's about as much coding as making a word bold in MS Word is coding
<MartijnVdS> neuro: no, in WP 5.1 with the Alt+F3 screen open
<neuro> LOOK THE SCREN HAS ITALCIS AND UNDURLINEZ ON IT I ARE CODEING!
<neuro> MartijnVdS: please, not to be triggering my PTSD, thanks
<MartijnVdS> neuro: You have WordPerfect-related PTSD?
<neuro> yup
<shauno> I think 'coding' is way too vague to argue about what counts and what doesn't
<neuro> "coding" == "programming"
<diddledan__> why aren't those youtube clips working for me?
<daftykins> i don't find the word programming so apt these days
<neuro> yeah, i was just clarifying the term
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> mine was an aside
<neuro> thing is, i don't consider myself a "coder"
<neuro> but i can knock out some bash or php pretty easily
<MartijnVdS> r u l33t h4x0r?
<neuro> I R
<neuro> hack the planet
<diddledan__> I consider myself as a "developer" usually
<neuro> good alternate term
<ali1234> coding is literally "encoding"
<neuro> oh jeez
<neuro> dude
<neuro> html is not code
<neuro> :)
<daftykins> ^
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: UCS-2
<neuro> it's not programmatic, nothing is executed or interpreted
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it is interpreted, or web browsing would be *annoying*
<diddledan__> my colleague refers to himself as "coding mage" as part of a much longer job title
<neuro> it's rendered
<neuro> heh nice
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it's parsed
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: "Bit wizard"
<shauno> it is interpreted
<diddledan__> MartijnVdS: bits are so old fashioned
<neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpreter_(computing)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: "Byte Bamboozler"?
<diddledan__> -_-
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: Megabyte Mage? Gigabyte Guru?
<diddledan__> garbage collector?
<diddledan__> terabyte titilator?
<neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsing#Parser
<shauno> find me a dictionary and tell me that an interpreter doesn't render one language into another
<diddledan__> shauno: english
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: refcount or mark&sweep? ;)
<diddledan__> in french
<ali1234> +1 shauno
<neuro> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/parse#Verb
<diddledan__> I've yet to see an interpreter that renders assembly into german
<ali1234> diddledan__: but there is the opposite
<neuro> shauno / ali1234: the words you're throwing around have very specific terms in the computing field
<shauno> right, parsing is to render it into it's constituent parts.  that's the first part to interpretting
<diddledan__> ali1234: I'm being facetious
<diddledan__> ali1234: I'm playing both sides off against one-another
<shauno> "To split a file or other input into pieces of data that can be easily stored or manipulated."   is what you just linked
<daftykins> neuro: btw if you revisit your link to politicalscrapbook.net there, i like the way the upper-right link to "Arrogant IDS..." with the guy holding up a blurred hand looks like he's throwing the above envelope \o/
<diddledan__> shauno: I prefer the term Grok
<neuro> daftykins: nice spot, like it :)
<shauno> a browser doesn't split html into data that can be easily manipulated, and then throw them into your lap.  so parsing is one part of a wider task
<neuro> i LOVE the word grok
<ali1234> diddledan__: http://esolangs.org/wiki/German
<neuro> shauno: you're splitting hairs, HTML is NOT a programming language
<shauno> I never said it did.  but I don't think coding==programming
<ali1234> neither did i, for the record
<neuro> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/code#Verb
<neuro> "To write software programs"
<neuro> and suddenly it goes awfully quiet :)
<ali1234> well wiktionary is wrong
<neuro> olk
<neuro> s/l//
<neuro> i didn't realise debate worked that way, but sure, let's do that instead
<shauno> I think there's a very good reason 'coding' has appeared as an umbrella term
<daftykins> yeah, it probably aims to encompass all the grey areas
<neuro> OED says "code (verb): write code for (a computer program)"
<shauno> especially where it comes to education, where getting anything in the door is a lot more constructive than picking them apart over what your idea of a language is
<ali1234> but you're ignoring the second definition there on wiktionary, which says "To categorise by assigning identifiers from a schedule" which is literally what you are doing when you markup a document with html tags
<neuro> oh, but i thought wiktionary was wrong?
<ali1234> i guess it's not wrong after all
<daftykins> where does 'schedule' enter in?
<shauno> that's your dtd
<neuro> it still doesn't change the fact that HTML is a markup language, not a programming language
<neuro> A DTD is written in XML which is a markup language
<shauno> I mean the dtd would be an example of the 'schedule' from which the identifiers are chosen
<daftykins> the third (cryptography) definition seems odd - would any of you really use that?
<daftykins> i'd have thought 'encrypt' replaced that if it ever was in the common lexicon
<ali1234> sure. if i said "coded message" you would know what i meant
<neuro> it's still valid though
<shauno> code and crypt have specific meanings in cryptography
<diddledan__> an ecard? that's their initiative? to teach kids to make an ecard?
<daftykins> ali1234: 'coded' != "we should code..."
<ali1234> maybe, but this is only wiktionary
<daftykins> yeah code = encrypted message, iirc?
<shauno> in a 'code' you replace one given with another.  with a cypher you modify each given according to a process
<ali1234> if i say "talking in code" you will also know what i mean
<diddledan__> ali1234: you're spouting html verbally again?
<daftykins> right but again you're trying to compare by using different contexts
<ali1234> right, the example given on wiktionary is quite awkward
<ali1234> but it is still in common use with that meaning
<neuro> focusing on wiktionary specifically is a bit daft
<neuro> it's just the first source i went to for a dictionary definition
<neuro> you're handwaving away from the key point: HTML is not a programming language
<daftykins> sorry yeah i was discussing a bit of a tangent there
<neuro> i'm not saying there's no skill to it
<daftykins> i agree, they're not the same thing
<shauno> it can't be, it doesn't even have <!-- if IE conditionals ;)
<neuro> but it's a language of design, not of programming
<ali1234> i don't think anyone ever said it was a programming language
<ali1234> specifically, it's not turing-complete
<diddledan__> actually I'd say CSS is a language of design
<neuro> it definitely is
<diddledan__> HTML is a language of structure
<neuro> and the if IE conditionals are CSS hacks dependent on HTML structure, not part of HTML themselves
<shauno> they're not css, but they are hacks.  that was intended in jest.
<neuro> they're not part of HTML at any rate
<shauno> I used one of those little smiley faces and everything!
<neuro> oh
<neuro> i thought it was part of your markup
<neuro> :D
<shauno> oh that wouldn't parse at all
<ali1234> there's no point teaching "programming" before data, encoding, and so on
<ali1234> it's like teaching writing before speaking
<neuro> lol wut
<ali1234> or algebra before arithmetic
<diddledan__> or even programming before algebra
<ali1234> well, quite
<ali1234> that's the real problem with this "everyone must learn to code!" stuff
<ali1234> how about teaching everyone basic mathematics first?
<neuro> i'm pretty sure basic mathematics is already part of the school curriculum
<neuro> and gets taught before electives like computing studies
<ali1234> currently it does
<neuro> ok, so?
<neuro> do you think they're going to plonk five year olds in front of Eclipse screaming CODE, CODE NOOOOWWWW! at them?
<ali1234> pretty much, yes
<ali1234> except it won't be eclipse, it will be scratch
<ali1234> probably running on a raspberry pi
<neuro> on day one
<neuro> suuuuuuure
<ali1234> well, what do you think they'll do?
<diddledan__> I think the point is the initiative seems to be focusing on "code" rather than "fundamental computing principles" so they're not going to teach the why, just the how
<shauno> that's not always a bad place to start
<neuro> ALL THESE WORLDS
<neuro> ARE YOURS EXCEPT
<neuro>     EUROPA
<neuro>   ATTEMPT NO
<neuro>  LANDINGS THERE
<neuro> USE THEM TOGETHER
<neuro> USE THEM IN PEACE
<diddledan__> yeah we know how that ends. eve eats the apple and convinces adam to also
<shauno> a friend was translating a script for something recently.  she asked me "can I use the present continuous tense, or should I use present simple"
<shauno> at this point I realised I don't know jack about grammar
<diddledan__> lol
<daftykins> i only know what sounds right, not all the technical mumbo jumbo =|
<shauno> exactly
<shauno> I think "just the how" isn't a bad place to start.  leave the 'why' to those that want to continue into CS
<neuro> standard education fare
<ali1234> i disagree with you there
<neuro> surprise :)
<ali1234> if you want them to continue into CS, you have to give them a reason why
<neuro> that's why schools have career counsellors
<ali1234> lololol
<shauno> I'm not sure you do.  I think you have to dangle enough into them that those who realise it's "their thing" will grab hold.  and the rest can go get sociology degrees
<shauno> erm, in front of them
<diddledan__> the kind that think that plumbing is suitable for someone who suggests that they want to be an electronics engineer?
<shauno> don't dangle things into them.  that gets you removed from schools.
<neuro> lol
<diddledan__> (that's a truism, btw. it actually happened to someone I know!)
<shauno> I'm failing at multitasking :/
<ali1234> consider that knowing what a for-loop is will be completely useless to anyone who does not continue in that field
<daftykins> well it's pretty standard that those students you see take an interest you push harder
<daftykins> when i had students that thought they were pretty set at something i tried to trip them up with extra challenges as much as possible
<diddledan__> yeah, that didn't happen for me
<diddledan__> I found my own challenges
<daftykins> well this was at further education level, so they'd already chosen that path really
<diddledan__> aah
<daftykins> potentially dropped out of GCSE etc.
<ali1234> i'm not worried about those people. my question is what will all the rest get from this?
<diddledan__> it's amazing how many of our brightest people were actually school drop-outs (presumably because they weren't challenged in the right way)
<diddledan__> ok so alot of them had got as far as college (americans)
<diddledan__> but they failed to finish
<daftykins> i like to see it that school taught me to read and write, the rest was pretty much useless as i worked with computers at home myself :)
<ali1234> school pretty much failed to even teach me that
<daftykins> the acorns we had at secondary school very much did not count
<diddledan__> acorn!
<diddledan__> yeah the "educational" acorn apps were poor
<shauno> I didn't do computing at school.  I wasn't allowed to use anything that was connected to the network, which just left me the bbcs in the maths lab
<diddledan__> shauno: you haxx0red them?
<diddledan__> the school*
<shauno> I apparently did something completely by accident
<daftykins> 0o
<shauno> anyway.  wish me luck, it seems I'm going to install centos :/
<diddledan__> you WHAT?!
<diddledan__> that's masochism for ya I guess
<daftykins> no, that's gentoo
<shauno> I just want a peek at how the other half live.  especially since I'm taking another stab at openstack, and they have a one-liner instead of half a realm of outdated docs
<daftykins> you made me interested enough to try a VM
<daftykins> mooching 6.5 64-bit from a .se mirror now
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i think i was going to try the latest fedora too
<shauno> lol, don't blame me
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ah VM'ing is fun
<daftykins> just waiting for this 4.2GB DVD to come down O_O
<daftykins> makes even my 40Mb seem slow
<shauno> pft, there's a 'minimal'.  I always go small
<daftykins> i should've read, heh
<shauno> reminds me, I really wish ubuntu would do something clever with squid-deb-proxy during the install
<neuro> what would that do?
<daftykins> yeah how'd that benefit a single install?
<shauno> it wouldn't benefit a single install.  but I can't see how it'd hurt to pick it up if it sees avahi announcing a deb mirror on the lan
<neuro> sounds like an edge case to me
<shauno> eh, at least on -server the installer still asks if you want to use a http proxy.  I can't see why it's a huge leap to not have to ask if the answer's already there
<daftykins> think i spotted a typo in Anaconda
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan__> well done
<neuro> bug report ;)
<daftykins> heh - yeah i'll try once i confirm it
<daftykins> i hit next as i saw it
<diddledan__> do we really want to help the enema?
<diddledan__> :-p
<daftykins> i wouldn't say i was even firmly in camp ubuntu if i'm honest
<neuro> tsk ;)
<diddledan__> ooh, you blasphemer!
<neuro> "enema"
<daftykins> that's dan's humour for you
<daftykins> ;)
<neuro> ba dum tsh
<diddledan__> I feel I'm too well known around these parts :-D
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> you'll have to come up with a new nick
<shauno> no no don't
<diddledan__> dopeydick?
<neuro> danbuntu
<shauno> you'll end up with the honey monster ruining the last vestiges of your childhood
<diddledan__> or would that be too obvious?
<diddledan__> yes, the honeymonster is a fave
 * diddledan__ monster mashes shauno 
<neuro> spock beats monster
<diddledan__> oh myyy
<neuro> :)
<diddledan__> is that a pon fhar thing?
<neuro> can't help but hear that in takei's voice
<diddledan__> speelign
<neuro> pon farr
<neuro> </geek>
<diddledan__> yey
<shauno> I didn't realise quite how loud this server is, until I turned the TV on and couldn't hear it :/
<diddledan__> shauno: you have a server at home? that's almost on my level (I still have three proliants in the other room, just dormant)
<shauno> a 1950 and a 2950, supposedely temporarily
<neuro> ouch
<diddledan__> I really should fire them up at some point to see if they still work
<diddledan__> the Gentoo on there must be ancient and a bit now
<neuro> crowdpleasers
<shauno> but they're just under my desk, because my other room has a bed in it.  and poweredge & sleep don't go together well
<diddledan__> I wonder if I could bring the install up-to-date
<neuro> i wouldn't bother
<neuro> ime upgrading gentoo is a proper pain
<diddledan__> I've got a walk-in cupboard which serves nicely as a serverroom
<shauno> I've got a walk-in cupboard that some joker installed a bathroom in.  but hey, the cheapest rent around
<diddledan__> lol
<diddledan__> cheap ftw
<diddledan__> can you not dual-purpose it?
<shauno> not easily.  ireland frowns on putting electrical outlets in the bathroom
<diddledan__> bah
<neuro> would lead to an interesting redefinition of "bog standard server"
<shauno> I don't fancy the humidity from the shower either
<diddledan__> the handles on the proliants I have would make for a useful straining bar
<shauno> okay, 20 minutes sat at 'Testing if puppet apply is finished'.  This is not going as advertised
<diddledan__> o_O
<diddledan__> I think it broke
<shauno> I really need to turn this stuff on more often.  the server came up quicker than the dhcp server, the router's booting into romon ..
<diddledan__> romon?
<shauno> rommon, remote monitor I think .. it's where a cisco router lands you if it didn't boot the OS
<diddledan__> oic
<bigcalm> What's happening kids?
<daftykins> just reminded myself of how ugly a default CentOS looks!
<shauno> you have gnome?
<daftykins> yeah, all defaults
<shauno> not sure I'm quite *that* bored ;)
<daftykins> XD
<brobostigon> very cool, a pebble twitter client, :)
<shauno> awwww.  don't try to netinstall on ipv6-only.  it never asks for a dns server, and then dies
<ali1234> shauno: i cracked it. recording the websdr (with the record button on the page) and then playing the result back through mplayer doesn't warp
<ali1234> even though the audio it actually played during recording did come out warped
<ali1234> identical pulseaudio path too
<shauno> hm, I think I really need to be not using a loopback cable for this then
<ali1234> you need pulseaudio so you can route direct :)
<shauno> haaaa
<ali1234> or you need to just record to a file instead of pumping it out the sound card
<shauno> I need linux's sound systems like a hole in the head
<ali1234> i know right, who ever thought this thing would actually turn out to be useful for something?
<shauno> sorry, that's been a sore spot ever since oss & esd starting playing fisticuffs, and then alsa came along and started stabbing them in the back while they were distracted
<shauno> and I've never been given the impression it's got much better
<ali1234> then pulseaudio showed up and started throwing poop at everyone, lol
<ali1234> btw, am i infringing copyright by uploading these maps on imagebin?
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/291345
<shauno> I don't believe so; they're intended for public dissemination
<shauno> and they're usually pretty good at stamping 'crown copyright' on anything and everything otherwise
<shauno> and that is pretty decent.  interesting
<shauno> fwiw, ubuntu's install seems to handle ipv6 much better than centos'.  I still had some issues last time, but .. not quite this silly
<ali1234> i was surprised when it detected our printer on ipv6... i didn't even know the printer had ipv6
<ali1234> i didn't even know ubuntu had ipv6
<shauno> if I tell it to go ipv6 only, it never gives me a chance to give it dns info.  if I let it go dual-stack, it can't find the server the images live on because that name only resolves to v6
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/wefax.png http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/wefax.wav for reference
<ali1234> you'll need to skip the first 5 minutes or so of the wav. don't want to even edit it in case it resamples or something
<shauno> 403/forbidden
<ali1234> hmm, really?
<shauno> the image works fine, not the wav
<ali1234> that's odd, i copied them both with scp at the same time
<ali1234> but they have different permissions on the server
<ali1234> fixed
<shauno> ta
<shauno> heh, fldigi needs a fast-forward button
<ali1234> also for reference, this is what fldigi made of the live playback through firefox, of exactly the same thing: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/wefax-bad.png
<shauno> right; that looks familiar
<ali1234> so yeah... temporal jitter caused by something inside html5 or firefox in my case, perhaps just too high cpu load, who knows
<ali1234> i might try chrome... or maybe write my own UI for the websdr stream :)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-07
<neuro> hmm, official now: http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/6/5385212/sony-sells-off-vaio-pc-division
<diddledan__> I just followed a link from that article to the satya nadella article
<diddledan__> i.e. new boss @ microsnot
<neuro> yup
<diddledan__> "cloud first, mobile first"
<diddledan__> sounds like "developers developers developers"
<neuro> it actually makes sense
<diddledan__> yes it does
<neuro> they need to get their act together or they'll be best known as that company who makes xboxes and office apps who also used to make some sort of window
<neuro> if they can stop this notion that they can still dominate the consumer OS space, and concentrate on cloud platforms, enterprise OSes/apps and xbox, they'll go far
<neuro> and try to fashion nokia into a blackberry-style platform for businesses
<neuro> that's my thoughts anyway
<neuro> windows 7 is only slightly better than windows 2000, windows 8 is a joke, meanwhile OS X and Linux have been on constant iterative innovation cycles leaving them with way more stable platforms and way more attractive development bases
<neuro> let the marketplace migrate to android tablets and ubuntu desktop/laptops
<neuro> and people will quickly scream for better apps than libreoffice
<neuro> and they'll appear
<diddledan__> libreoffice has been coming up with innovations, too, though
<neuro> "we crash only once an hour now!"
<diddledan__> like the latest release making it the only desktop office suite in existence that utilises the gPU
<neuro> you sure about that?
<neuro> *cough*iWork*cough*
<diddledan__> that utilises the GPU for spreadsheet work?
<diddledan__> e.g.
<neuro> oh ok, that's new
<neuro> no idea if OS X does that
<diddledan__> I'm talking GPGPU
<diddledan__> aka opencl
<neuro> yeah, i figured
<diddledan__> ref: http://www.libreoffice.org/download/4-2-new-features-and-fixes/#Formula Engine
<diddledan__> bah @ bad paste
<neuro> %20 :)
<diddledan__> Engine should be part of the linky
<diddledan__> yeah
<neuro> still, pass ;)
<neuro> http://www.libreoffice.org/features/writer/screenshot-of-writer-the-libreoffice-word-processor/
<diddledan__> yeah, it's ugly as sin
<daftykins> thing is, are there really any situations where that's going to actually save much time over CPU only?
<diddledan__> daftykins: I guess it depends on the type of calculations you use a spreadsheet for
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> i've seen some pretty gnarly spreadsheets in my time
<neuro> http://www.apple.com/uk/creativity-apps/mac/
<neuro> scroll down to look at Pages
<diddledan__> yeah pages is pretty sweet
<neuro> http://www.apple.com/uk/osx/whats-new/features.html#core
<neuro> mavericks has opencl support built in
<neuro> (actually, os x has had it since 2006 i think)
<neuro> so it's possible numbers uses opencl without numbers actually realising it
<diddledan__> opencl was invented by apple IIRC
<neuro> yarp
<neuro> developed by and holds the trademarks to
<neuro> then iterated on by apple, amd, ibm, qcomm, intel, nvidia
<neuro> then standarised
<neuro> people wail on apple at times without actually realising some of the cool stuff they've given back to the community
<neuro> cups, for example
<diddledan__> what I really want is some of the tech from linux to work in osx like kvm
<diddledan__> <3 osx
<neuro> what, you mean without having to kludge it with an app like fusion or parallels?
<diddledan__> bingo
<neuro> wouldn't surprise me if it happened at some point
<neuro> although their focus really isn't on servery enterprisey smelling stuff these days
<diddledan__> indeed
<neuro> i can only imagine what a 2014 xserve would be like
<neuro> given the crazy stuff they did with the mac pro
<diddledan__> well they canned the xserve :-(
<neuro> i know
<neuro> hence why i can only imagine :)
<diddledan__> aah
<neuro> i was toying with buying one off ebay the other day
<neuro> most of them are a state
<neuro> people selling them missing drive caddies and the like
<diddledan__> dang
<neuro> then i came to my senses
<neuro> and started searching ebay for color classics :D
<diddledan__> I bet they've still got the second-hand apple premium though
<neuro> they do a bit yeah
<neuro> the old ppc ones are reasonably priced
<neuro> but like i say, finding a decent one is tough
<neuro> a lot of them have had the crap kicked out of them
<neuro> this is ridiculous: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321090423002
<neuro> i forgot people did that to color classics
<neuro> "let's gut an LC575 and put it into a color classic!"
<daftykins> for some reason 'logic board' grates with me so much
<neuro> :)
<neuro> good grief
<neuro> someone is selling an Atari Falcon 030 on ebay for ...
<neuro> Â£799
<daftykins> a steal!
<neuro> i don't even think it cost that much when new
<daftykins> (i don't know that system) :D
<neuro> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290795081472
<neuro> it's basically an Atari ST with a 68030 and Jaguar-like graphics capability
<diddledan__> I do wish people would get "free as in beer" the correct way about
<diddledan__> beer is not gratis, it's libre
<neuro> BUT I NEVER PAY FOR BEER!
<daftykins> is that because you don't like it and thus never drink any?
<diddledan__> aparently xcode from apple is free as in beer?
<diddledan__> !!
<diddledan__> dammit people get your references straight!
<neuro> um
<neuro> not sure if you're kidding, but if you're not, that's the wrong way around
<diddledan__> no it's not
<diddledan__> beer is libre
<neuro> free as in beer means free of cost
<diddledan__> exactly
<diddledan__> not
<neuro> free as in free speech means libre
<diddledan__> free as in beer - when was the last time you went to a pub and got free-of-cost beer?
<diddledan__> free as in beer refers to the fact that anybody can recreate it becasue it's libre - the recipe is open
<neuro> no, it doesn't
<neuro> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
<neuro> âFree softwareâ means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Thus, âfree softwareâ is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of âfreeâ as in âfree speech,â not as in âfree beerâ.
<daftykins> diddledan__: wow you were being serious?
<neuro> i thought he wasn't :)
<diddledan__> people use the phrase "free as in beer" not the phrase "free beer"
<diddledan__> that gnu item uses the latter
<diddledan__> which is different to "free as in beer"
<neuro> ah, you're being 2am pedantic, ok ;)
<daftykins> i was originally just going to say, hey neuro meet diddledan! ;)
<neuro> it's more of a shorthand these days, at least for us enlightened lot
<neuro> "free as in speech" is syntactically wrong as well, but people still use it
<diddledan__> "free as in beer" is an ethic, "free beer" is an example
<neuro> best just to suck it up, imagine slapping rms silly with those stupid disk platters of his, and move on with life, safe in the knowledge that you're not rms
<diddledan__> I prefer to use free as in beer when referring to libre
<neuro> you may notice i'm not that keen on rms
<diddledan__> because it most accurately portrays the meaning
<daftykins> neuro: i detected a hint, couldn't be sure though...
<neuro> but free as in beer DOESN'T mean libre
<diddledan__> you _may_ have to pay for beer but you can always recreate it yourself based on the same recipe
<neuro> NO, STOP, UR DOING IT WRONG
<diddledan__> that's the definition of libre, no?
<neuro> you're manhandling the definition of libre onto the common, although misquoted, definition of gratis
<neuro> stop it
<neuro> step away from the definitions, yo
<neuro> daftykins: can't stand the man, unfortunately
<neuro> and i've met him, so it's not like some sort of unfounded misdirected rage
<diddledan__> he's got a good beard tho
<neuro> he really doesn't
<neuro> it's unkempt
<neuro> and i don't like alan cox's beard either, before you say anything
<neuro> but at least alan cox is a nice guy
<daftykins> neuro: i hear rms has a violent odour
<neuro> when i was near him, i was also near coffee being brewed
<neuro> so there may have been some masking elements
<neuro> but he was whiny, grumpy and awful to talk to
<neuro> a poor ambassador
<neuro> he "blessed" my Vaio running win2k as well
<neuro> i sold it the next year
<neuro> man, google have switched off subtle mode today
<neuro> rainbow logo linking to a search for "Olympic Charter"
<diddledan__> apparently russia is allowed to crack down on gays during the lympits but lympians aren't allowed to protest about it
<diddledan__> for fear of being banned for life from all lympit
<neuro> they're doing a good job of it before they go though
<neuro> cf german outfits, canadian luge video, channel 4 gay mountain ad ...
<daftykins> good job of what? huh?
<neuro> protesting
<daftykins> did they? are they still going?
<neuro> probably
<neuro> team gb are for sure
<daftykins> suckers for medals
<neuro> bed time
<daftykins> \o
<prasanth_> hello
<prasanth_> sir i need free cds of ubuntu
<prasanth_> help me out
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> how is everyone this morning?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: time for weekend :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: at 3:30 :)
<MooDoo> morning TheOpenSourcerer how goes it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good thanks
<TheOpenSourcerer> You MooDoo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Looking forward to tomorrow's 6 Nations match - should see England thrash Scotland.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: It would be nice to see them thrash scotland, I hope it's not as close as the last one lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> The French were bloody lucky. It was good game - Thought England played pretty well actually.
<MooDoo> we'll see eh :)
<jussi> come on scotland? :P :P
<jussi> oh, and "Morning all"
<MooDoo> jussi: shush you ;) and morning
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> hows things MooDoo?
<MooDoo> jussi: yeah ok thanks, just rebuilt my vps as as i'm here it's workied :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wow - there's some hard-core code on here: http://www.darpa.mil/OpenCatalog/index.html Shame I don't understand *any* of it ;-)
<MartijnVdS> the names are interesting too
<MooDoo> code?  where were going we don't need any code....
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo++ # Heavy, doc!
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: what you talking about, I thought everyone knew about Linear Algebra heheh
<TheOpenSourcerer> I only know about chillies.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: yum
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: stuff the global jam, how about a Ubuntu Chilli jam at your place ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> My 2014 season so far: https://plus.google.com/photos/104060033182234025482/albums/5975387695779422977
<MooDoo> oooo nice
<diplo> I'd like to grow chillis this year, guessing it's to late already ? Or can you grow all year round TheOpenSourcerer ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: If you grow C.Anuumm you are not too late at all. I;ve not started those yet. All the ones so far are C.Chinense or C.Baccatum
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you have light and heat you can grow all year.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And space of course.
<MooDoo> I made a fatel error last year by keeping them outside at the start, ooops nono
<popey> pip pip
<MooDoo> howdy popey
<popey> i should sleep
<MooDoo> yes you should :D
<MooDoo> unless your still playing your card game :d
<diplo> Cheers TheOpenSourcerer, sorry phone went. I will have a read up tonight thanks
<TheOpenSourcerer> NP
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool stuff. Another awesome thing for graphene: http://spectrum.ieee.org/nanoclast/semiconductors/materials/graphene-nanoribbons-get-electrons-to-behave-like-photons  - "Ballistic transport" :-D
<dwatkins> ooh, that might lead to room-temperature superconductors, perhaps
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<DJones> bigcalm: Did you get your laptop fully working yet, or is nvidia still being a pig
<MooDoo> morning morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> DJones: I have bug 1276816 but the machine it working well otherwise :)
<lubotu3> bug 1276816 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-331 (Ubuntu) "Unable to select Intel in PRIME Profiles within nvidia-settings" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1276816
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Wave All Your Fingers At Your Neighbours Day! :-D
<DJones> bigcalm: Ta, I think I've found an excuse to get work to buy me a laptop, so that Dell might well be a decent option
<bigcalm> DJones: well worth buying the laptop I'd say. I expect bugs to be fixed before 14.04 is released
<bigcalm> Yay
<DJones> Which model was it, I need to bookmark it & then see about pricing
<bigcalm> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-7537/pd - but they appear to have changed the available options
<DJones> Thanks, that was roughly what I was looking at
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning knightwise
<DJones> bigcalm: Was also looking at this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aspire-V3-571G-15-6-inch-Bluetooth-Graphics/dp/B00B0TLP8G/ref=sr_1_14?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1387374370&sr=1-14&keywords=ACER+ASPIRE+V3-571G
<MartijnVdS> bluetooth graphics!
<cocoa117> what's the easiet way for linxu admin to get code onto all his controlled machine?
<cocoa117>  other then write a virus, :)
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: ansible, chef, puppet are the 3 big tools for that :)
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: juju, maybe too
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, so we need to prepare each machine with those packages, before this can be automated?
<bigcalm> DJones: that one has an optical media drive. Might be worth it if you need one
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: yes, but you can automate a lot of it using a preseeded install
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: though ansible just uses ssh, I think, an chef has a tool you run in one place to install it on another server
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, ok, time for me to learn few more tools today, :) thanks for the suggestions
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: I don't know enough about puppet to tell you how that works
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: but you tend to choose 1 of those 3, don't mix them ;)
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, got it
<DJones> bigcalm: Just comparing the cpu benchmark, there's quite a difference in that score 6877 for the asus, compared to 3939 for the dell, although the dell appears to have a newer graphics card
<bigcalm> DJones: I guess I didn't look around as much as I could have. I've had acers in the past and haven't been that impressed with the build quality over dell
<DJones> bigcalm: Yeah, I've not had an Asus myself, (wife's got one and not had any issues), Dells have always been good quality though
<DJones> The other one I'm thinking about is http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Z510-15-6-inch-Laptop-i7-4700MQ/dp/B00HR6TYZC/ref=sr_1_28?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1391762020&sr=1-28
<DJones> But only 1gb graohics
<bigcalm> DJones: it doesn't say what the screen res is
<bigcalm> Oh, found it
<DJones> I guess swings & roundabouts in the end, faster processor compared to better graphics
<DJones> All 3 are same screen size, and looking the nvidia can go to 2Gb
<bigcalm> The dell can do 16gb ram out of the box, may be able to take it higher - who knows
<bigcalm> Looks like you have some nice things to decide between
<bigcalm> You'll have the same teething nvidia troubles with all of those laptops
<DJones> Yeah I'd expect so anyway
<MartijnVdS> so, don't buy nvidia!
<DJones> I guess on specs, the Lenovo looks slightly better is I can find one with a 2Gb nvidia
<MooDoo> do you need the fast graphics, are you planning on playing games or using wibbly windows ;)
<brobostigon> windows that shimmy,
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: HL2 and friends run fine on haswell onboard graphics
<DJones> MooDoo: Well, MInecraft
<MooDoo> DJones: nuff said :D  minecraft ftw, I run my own Feed the BEast Server :D
<DJones> MooDoo: Are there other games?
<MooDoo> DJones: well no not really, although I'm just waiting for steam to convery bioshock infinite to be able to run on linux, then I'll be happy :D
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: MooDoo: how am ya both?
<bigcalm> davmor2: tired, need a holiday
<MooDoo> davmor2: cracking now i've rebuilt my vps to LTS
<davmor2> MooDoo: ha nice
<davmor2> bigcalm: :( I'll get my little violin out and play a tune just for you ;)  You still work on holiday so it can't be that bad :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i'm tralking to you from it now irrsi + screen  FTW!
<bigcalm> davmor2: off to Liverpool tonight for the weekend (if Hayley is well enough). We'll see if I relax up there
<davmor2> MooDoo: byobu-tmux + irssi + irssi-proxy + any local irc client == WIN!
<MooDoo> davmor2: ok smarty pants.
<davmor2> bigcalm: no you'll have a phone so at some point you will check your email which will make you think hmm if I do this this and this and then before you know it you're working ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: irssi proxy pretty much rocks :)
<shauno> that's pretty much my setup - sans byobu, I never saw the appeal
<knightwise> byobu is pretty great to keep sessions runnign and stuff
<knightwise> terminal server style , handy if you log in from different locations
<MartijnVdS> yeah but annoying if you log into one machine from 2 terminals on the same machine
<MartijnVdS> I haven't figured out how to switch to another "window" without the other viewer switching as well
<shauno> well, screen/tmux I can use for that .. byobu just seems to add .. fluff?
<bigcalm> davmor2: in that respect, I never stop working
<MartijnVdS> shauno: nice key bindings, some useful "task bar" things like time and system load
<shauno> well that'd be a start; I've never found a use for the task bar :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it also contains the window list.. it tells you when a background window has activity (and maybe wants your attention)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: just split the screen byobu acts like terminator :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I don't use terminator
<shauno> my fun 'trick' is that I've rebound all the keys in my terminal app, so eg cmd-T does "send hex 0x01 0x63"
<shauno> this way screen uses all the native keybindings when I'm on my own machine, but acts just like screen should when I connect from somewhere else
<MartijnVdS> weird! :)
<MooDoo> someone having issues? ;)
<bigcalm> Humm
<MartijnVdS> hey, it's hazrpg!
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: herro!
<hazrpg> I just converted to tmux
<MartijnVdS> \o/ another convert ;)
<hazrpg> and it seems to not play nicely with .tmux.conf lol
<hazrpg> or at least using it through byobu anyway
<hazrpg> I wanted to set a few things as "default" windows... but that seems to spawn MANY tmux instances for some bizzare reason
<hazrpg> anyways, how is everyone?
<MartijnVdS> a bit busy, but fine. You? :)
<hazrpg> Yeah not too bad. :)
<hazrpg> finally got a career going \o/
<dwatkins> yay tmux
<MooDoo> bloomin customers
<neuro> i keep saying, life would be so much easier without customers and users
<dwatkins> I thoroughly agree, MooDoo
<neuro> less interesting, perhaps
<neuro> and salaryless too
<neuro> but easier
<MooDoo> I'm right your wrong, well that's not acceptable i want a different answer....raaaaa
<neuro> very customer. wow. so wrong.
<MooDoo> just annoying and me being me I get frustrated about it
<hazrpg> dwatkins: \o/ tmux
<dwatkins> I use tmux and screen, one inside the other.
<davmor2> dwatkins: you know they get that effect from mirrors normally
<MartijnVdS> hazrpg: what kind of career? :)
<jussi> YACoT FTW :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: but that's what letmegooglethatfor you is for surely ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: alas no.
<davmor2> MooDoo: well at least play sadtrombone.com to them :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: I can't do that, i'm a professional i send them to tumbleweed.popey.com
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahaha
<dwatkins> davmor2: impressive
<bigcalm> We are hiring! http://siftware.com/needs-you/
<jpds> I hope no PHP is involved in a weapons system.
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Quite
<hazrpg> MartijnVdS: Analyst/Developer at a uni
<foobarry> which ?
<foobarry> which country :P
<hazrpg> in the UK ^_^
<foobarry> which uni :P
<foobarry> n/s/e/w
<hazrpg> foobarry: does it matter :P?
<foobarry> yes, please PM me :P
<foobarry> i am interested
<foobarry> especially to hear of .ac.uk workers on irc
<neuro> wait, a work from home job
<neuro> and they'll send you an aeron and a coffee machine?
<neuro> and fruit?
<popey> Morning
<hazrpg> neuro: i noticed that too... o.O
<hazrpg> morning popey
<neuro> i'd rather not have the money spent on that stuff and spent towards my salary ;)
<hazrpg> neuro: agreed :P
<MooDoo> you guys get paid to work? luxury ;)
<bashrc> in mah day...
<hazrpg> MooDoo: I hear its all the range ^_^
<MooDoo> hazrpg: I think I'm getting fleeced, at work on facebook and irc and not getting paid...;)
<hazrpg> MooDoo: :P
<MooDoo> :)
<xalyy> hey
<mapps> heylo
<xalyy> halo :D?
<xalyy> Can someone help me how to configure the network without DHCP?
<xalyy> Have no connection on my dedicated server :S
<mapps> hm
<mapps> /etc/network/interfaces is the file i think
<xalyy> Yes but how do I know what is the defult ip gateway etc?
<mapps> ah do u not know any of the details?
<mapps> you need to know those
<xalyy> not really :S
<xalyy> Where can I know it?
<mapps> can u access the svr at all now
<xalyy> svr?
<mapps> server
<bashrc> Something like this, maybe http://freedombone.uk.to/#sec-4.2
<xalyy> i can access to the server
<xalyy> trough KVM
<xalyy> DRAC KVM
<directhex> either you have DHCP, or your server provider tells you the details
<directhex> there is no middle ground
<xalyy> So I have to ask from the server provider?
<directhex> the server provider should already have told you. or configured dhcp.
<xalyy> Only the server provider can activate DHCP
<xalyy> ?
<xalyy> People?
<popey> foobarry: looks like we may have a 12.04.5 with a trusty (14.04) HWE kernel, which will be nice for those on 12.04
<popey> foobarry: currently under discussion
<neuro> popey: what about existing installs?
<neuro> will they get a kernel bump or would it have to be manually changed?
<neuro> and would new installs get the new kernel by default?
<neuro> (yeah, i know it's just under discussion at the mo, but just asking!)
<foobarry> cheers popey
<foobarry> 12.04 still feels new to me
<mapps> no hmm i foolishly removed a package i shouldnt have which removed other stuff (libdb5.1) now i have no internet
<mapps> wlan0 showing under iwconfig - what can i do to fix this;/
<foobarry> restore from your btfrs snapshot
<neuro> tee hee
<mapps> lol neuro
<mapps> i was having trouble with squdguard saw somewhere mention use libdb5.3 so removed 5.1 and yea things went wrong
<mapps> foobarry,  how?:/
<diddledan__> scud-guard, eh? terrorist missile protection system?
<mapps> squidgiard
<mapps> :P
<mapps> guard
<mapps> enough of the mocking..someone help!
<diddledan__> can you dpkg -i <downloaded libdb from packages.ubuntu.com>?
<mapps> i could either i figured a) download on here and put on a usb key or b) use the cd?
<diddledan__> i.e. via download on a separate system
<mapps> im not sure what I need to install - iwconfig shows wlan0 as i sya but nothing in ifconfig
<foobarry> /var/log/apt/history.log
<mapps> download all those packages manually and install?
<shauno> a handy one is apt-get -d (download only).  apt-get -d install the stuff you broke, and then copy *deb from /var/cache/apt/archives/ on that machine, to the stranded one
<neuro> "There is a technical problem with the Payment Server. Please try again later."
<mapps> i was going to dl on a windows machine the *.debs not got another working linux machine
<neuro> well screw you too, Currys
<popey> trying to get a chromecast?
<neuro> na
<neuro> wouldn't sully my home with one of those
<neuro> doing a tech run on currys and maplins
<diddledan__> o_O currys are selling chromecasts?
<neuro> hdmi switch, ethernet cables, indoor aerial, tplink powerline, roku 3 ... whole bunch of stuff
<shauno> by the sound of his error message, they're not selling anything :p
<neuro> don't see any chromecasts on their site
<neuro> but they have a "Hurry! Last few" on Roku LTs for 30 quid
<diddledan__> me either on the seeing of chromecasts
<popey> soon
<neuro> oh good
<neuro> a queue
<neuro> on an 0844 number
<neuro> my phone bill will hate me
<brobostigon> next wednesday of workfare/mwa to go, and thats it, done and finshed, finally, then normality can return.
<mapps> so ive got to dl about 50 packages shauno |
<mapps> ?
<shauno> I can't tell you, it depends what you removed :)
<shauno> actually, I'd take a peek in /var/cache/apt anyway to see if you still have the old one.  depending what your housekeeping is like, there may be more spare parts than you'd expect in there
<mapps> lots it seems
<mapps> ah it stores the packages there
 * popey flys home to blighty today
<popey> window seat + sleep should work
<jpds> Business class?
<popey> lol
<jpds> I get free upgrades these days.
<popey> i dont fly enough
<popey> which i am fine with btw
<popey> a couple of trips to florida a year are fine by me
<jpds> You don't want to look at my calendar.
 * popey has flashbacks of dancing on a table last night with a belly dancer
<popey> no doubt photos will pop up soon
 * AlanBell wonders if the belly dancer is having flashbacks too
<jpds> "I was with Elvis!"
<jpds> AlanBell: Yep.
<davmor2> popey: how did a dancer manager to balance on your belly let alone a table
<mapps> thanks shauno
<mapps> there's LOADS there..hopefully most of the stuff i removed in error
<mapps> wish i hadnt done it lol
<mapps> it even said 'are you sure and made me enter 'Yes i am ' or whatever
<diddledan__> Do as I say
<diddledan__> not as I do :-p
<mapps> :)
<mapps> urgh
<mapps> gotta go out in a bit
<mapps> what a chore
<mapps> hope this fixes it
<shauno> mapps: quick lesson there.  if it asks y/n, answer yes or no.  if it asks you to type in "yes I know what I'm doing", abort abort abort
<mapps> heh yea wish i had
<mapps> :D
<mapps> clearly means dont do it
<daftykins> D:
<shauno> if all you broke was the wifi, you got off easily.  usually it starts doing that when it's going to try to remove core components, or remove itself ..
<daftykins> i believe i have a new achievement today folks
<daftykins> i nearly "locked up" a Costa coffee girl from speech alone
<daftykins> "can i have that muffin without the paper bag?"
<daftykins> "..."
<daftykins> "..."
<daftykins> she really could not compute that.
<mapps> kik
<mapps> lol
<mapps> costa?
<mapps> fancy
<mapps> :D
<mapps> ive never been to any of these coffee joints
<daftykins> ah not especially, the island's had two for a while now
<daftykins> i'm a bit spoilt though y'see, i have those two Costas and another 3 or 4 coffee shops within about 30m from my front door, as i live right in town
<daftykins> where town = my island's capital
<mapps> well
<mapps> reinstalled everything from /var/cache/apt except xfce-power something and gnlme-mnetwork-manager opefully everything works
 * mapps has his fingers crossed
<mapps> apparently not
<mapps> hm
<daftykins> what did you remove?
<mapps> libdb5.1
<mapps> and it removed a load of other stuff
<daftykins> you could just run apt-cache showpkg libdb5.1
<daftykins> or apt-cache policy libdb5.1
<mapps> i went to theapt cacheand just did dpkg -i *.deb :) it failed on 2/3 one was gnome-network-manager does it need that?
<mapps> im on xubuntu
<mapps> sec
<daftykins> and it'll list all its' dependancies to pull them back in in one hit \o/
<mapps> hmm
<daftykins> hmm, probably not important nah
<daftykins> i don't know whether xfce uses NM
<mapps> ok how do i reverse it then
<daftykins> did you run showpkg or policy on the package?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> showpkg showed loads of reverse depends
<mapps> ok wlan0 appears in ifconfig
<mapps> hm
<daftykins> i'm only on 10.04 so i can't see myself
<mapps> maybe i could edit /etc/network/interfaces to get it working and ignore having no network manager for now?
<daftykins> well, you'd have to play around with WPA supplicant if you've got a passkey on your network
<mapps> ah
<mapps> why cant i restart my network either
<daftykins> i've not seen that work for years now
<mapps> /etc/init.d/networking restart says calling a sytsvinit script on a system using upstar isnt supported - then service networking restart unknown job networking
<daftykins> yeah, i'm not sure of the correct name but even the service restart method i've not seen work when modifying the interfaces file anymore
<diddledan__> yeah the powers that be have determined that thou must reboob for network changes unless you're using NM
<daftykins> =/
<daftykins> diddledan inserting naughty typos there
<diddledan__> me?
<diddledan__> never!
<mapps> ah ok
<mapps> so it isnt an error with my machine
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> mapps: i wonder if you can't just install xubuntu-desktop^ to check everything's back
<mapps> quick question gnome-network-maager needed network-manager network0manager needing dnsmasq - so to save me going and dl and putting on usb can i get these off my xubuntu cd? set that as the repo or something?
<diddledan__> with /etc/init.d/networking restart it'll either flat out fail or leave you in a weird state
<mapps> how would i use the cd as the source/
<daftykins> mapps: nah only the alternate CD can be used as a repo
<daftykins> afaik
<mapps> arghh
<shauno> apt-cdrom if it's installed
<daftykins> mapps: did wireless work in the live environment? boot, connect and chroot your install to fix \o/
<daftykins> !chroot
<lubotu3> A chroot is used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit applications in a 64bit environment - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
<mapps> ah
<mapps> i cant remember
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> worth a go :)
<mapps> but good idew#aok got dnsmasq and network-managet installed heh
<diddledan__> I wonder how many people are going to be left in the cold in 60 days when xp support ends
<diddledan__> mapps: that's an impressive typo
<mapps> err
<mapps> yes
<daftykins> diddledan__: given they extended the date for MS Security Essentials people will no doubt think they're safe for longer =/
<mapps> i was looking away on other machine
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> really annoying they did that.
<diddledan__> daftykins: so it's a case that MS won't prevent you being infected but they'll helpfully tell you once you are?
<daftykins> indeed! 8D
<shauno> they should post a wee message to the corner where my ones keep saying I'm a freeloader.  something along the lines of "shafted in 60 days .."
<diddledan__> lol
<diddledan__> that wording sounds perfect
<diddledan__> I'm not sure MS would use the same terms though :-(
<shauno> (not a naughty freeloader, just a '180 days trial is 179 days more than I need' freeloader)
<shauno> probably not.  I had a similar conversation with my boss this afternoon
<shauno> apparently my emails could benefit from a little less personality
<diddledan__> wait, they want a personal touch that isn't personal?
<mapps> so il boot into live environment daftykins
<mapps> then what
<diddledan__> I thought businesses were all about improving customer relations with personal touch
<Azelphur> I wish tesco would sell gallon bottles of apple/orange juice, I feel ridiculous ordering 20 1 litre boxes >.<
<diddledan__> Azelphur: then order 10 2libre boxes?
<Azelphur> there are no 2 litres :P
<diddledan__> litre**
<diddledan__> really?
<diddledan__> there are in sainsburys
<shauno> well aren't you posh
<mapps> ]heh
<Azelphur> not of plain orange juice (not squash, etc)
<mapps> sainsburys isnt that much more expensive
<mapps> misconception
<Azelphur> xD
<mapps> which is good as it means its less busy
<mapps> much prefer going to sainsburys :)
<Azelphur> I mostly order tesco since I can pay in BTC :)
<mapps> haha nice
<shauno> witchcraft?
<daftykins> mapps: get connected to your wireless then chroot your install on the hard disk
<mapps> ok not entirely sure i follow -0 can you help me in a bit please?
<daftykins> did you see the bot trigger?
<mapps> ya
<daftykins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
<mapps> woohoo
<mapps> connected in a live environment
<daftykins> basically you want to choose a mount point, maybe /mnt/chroot then mount your / (root) partition to /mnt/chroot/ and then any other partitions you have beneath that
<mapps> yea
<mapps> and then what try and run some apt-get update etc?
<daftykins> i think you need /proc and something else there too
<mapps> or re-install the xubuntu-desktop onto that hdd?
<daftykins> yep you chroot to that mount path, then you can handle package management as if you were in the installed version
<daftykins> albeit with connected wireless \o/
<mapps> wish id just said NO
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ah well
<daftykins> hindsight's 21/21
<daftykins> mapps: how's it looking?
<mapps> hey
<mapps> sorry
<mapps> had to go to sainsburys;p
<mapps> do my shopping
<mapps> hm
<mapps> daftykins,  why ca nt i ssh to it?
<mapps> installed openssh-server
<mapps> hmm
<jpds> To a chroot?
<mapps> wanted to ssh to the live env from my netbook
<mapps> so i could try and fix it remoyely
<jpds> I just entered and have no idea what this 'live env' is.
<mapps> aha
<mapps> live environment
<jpds> Right, so, that could be live CD, live server, live cloud instance, ...
<jpds> Oh, I see, you're in a live CD env and are trying to chroot into the installed system?
<mapps> yes sir
<jpds> Check 'ip addr' and see if it has an IP?
<mapps> it does
<mapps> ifconfig say so
<jpds> If it's on the same network, you should be able to ssh to that IP.
<mapps> yea
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> how can i check if its running
<mapps> /etc/init.d/ssh restart just doesnt say anything
<daftykins> netstat -tuln should show port 22 listening
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> doesnt say anything
<mapps> i did apt-gfet install openssh-server then i checkedc config and did /etc/init.d/ssh restart any ideas daftykins ?
<daftykins> should see: tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:22
<daftykins> can it ping your router?
<jpds> Or even just :::22.
<mapps> not there
<mapps> yea i can
<mapps> but it doesnt seem to be running?
<daftykins> ps -ef | grep ssh
<daftykins> that show sshd?
<daftykins> anywho SSH'ing in isn't even needed to chroot so why are we diagnosing this? :D
<mapps> cant see it
<mapps> any idea why it isnt running
<daftykins> nope
<jpds> mapps: So, silly question.
<jpds> mapps: You did connect the live environment to the network?
<daftykins> if he's pinging his router i hope so ;D
<mapps> yep
<mapps> :)
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> daftykins,  so i could ssh in heh
<daftykins> mapps: hrmm, i'd have thought just sort it locally ;)
<daftykins> shouldn't take long
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> my passport application has my first and second name but the box says first and surname
<mapps> do i need to get a new form?
<mapps> or will it be ok as it is
<DJones> Probably not, if it expects surname, it'll need surname
<mapps> yea
<mapps> err
<mapps> sorry i meant first and middle name
<mapps> but i didnt put my middle name
<SuperMatt> to
<SuperMatt> yo
<mapps> ok daftykins
<mapps> im starting npw
<daftykins> ok
<mapps> installed debootstrap and dchroot - it says to create var/chroot
<mapps> do i need to ? or not as im using my existing filesystem?
<daftykins> the live environment has its' own file system right now, so you need to pick a path where you're going to mount your installation to
<daftykins> interestingly enough a chap in #ubuntu pastebin'd his little shortcut to setting up a chroot just earlier
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6892565/
<daftykins> however in there, that's assuming that /dev/sda1 = / (your root filesystem)
<daftykins> and that there are no more
<daftykins> so you may want to confirm your disk structure with "sudo fdisk -l" to start with
<mapps> lets see
<mapps> /dev/sdb1 /dev/sdc1 hm
<mapps> ah
<mapps> /dev/sda1 linux /dev/sda extended and sda5? 2-5 hm is swap
<mapps> /dev/sda2 extended
<mapps> so /dev/sda1 is my /?
<daftykins> can you run "sudo fdisk -l | pastebinit" ?
<daftykins> pastebinit might need installing
<mapps> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6893290
<mapps> wow cool little tool
<mapps> id never know of pastebinit
<mapps> /dev/sdb is my usb stick ive got in there atm
<mapps> sda1 must be root
<daftykins> ah you'll be fine running the exact pastebin i linked then
<daftykins> with the huge long string
<mapps> neato
<DJones> sdb is 500Gb memory stick? Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB
<DJones> How much did that cost as a USB stick? I'm guesisng you mean SDC is a 16Gb memory stick
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> err
<mapps> sdc
<mapps> lol
<mapps> sorry
<mapps> yes DJones
<mapps> nerd:P
<MartijnVdS> sdhc? :)
<mapps> hehe
<DJones> That could have been a fatal error
<mapps> lol yea
<mapps> i did mean sdc tho:D
<mapps> sdb was in a usb enclosure as a usb hdd but not a usb pen drive
<mapps> sdc is a usb stick
<daftykins> *insert atom bomb mushroom cloud here*
<mapps> map types YES
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> XD
<mapps> thats what got me in this mess hey
<diddledan__> mushroom - isn't that an extra life?
<daftykins> mapps: so you should be sat at a chroot'd prompt of your actual install now
<daftykins> mapps: you could confirm by running "ls /home" and seeing your user's home folder
<mapps> moment
<mapps> jm
<mapps> yep
<mapps> its there
<mapps> :D
<mapps> now whats the plan though? to run apt-get update/dist-upgrade and hope it affects the chroot / ?
<diddledan__> ok, now rm -rf .........
<mapps> lol
<mapps> rm -rf /?
<mapps> :P
<diddledan__> something along those lines :-p
<mapps> diddledan__, joker eh
<mapps> :P
<mapps> lol
<diddledan__> always
<daftykins> he doesn't know how to serious.
<daftykins> poor lad
<daftykins> mapps: so yeah wouldn't hurt to start off with the above
<diddledan__> hey at least I'm having fun :-D
<mapps> wjhich one daftykins ?
<daftykins> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<daftykins> although you might be as root right now so 'sudo' may not even be necessary
<diddledan__> you mentioned xubuntu - in which case you _should_ be able to get back to a sane default by apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> perhaps after the above
<mapps> ok moment :)
<mapps> yea i am as root daftykins
<diddledan__> yeah, do daftykins' process first
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> its saying it xanrt resolve the domains?
<mapps> yet i can go to google.cxo.uk
<mapps> lol
<mapps> any suggestions?;/
<daftykins> cat /etc/resolv.conf
<diddledan__> ^
<mapps> yea but i can reach them in fireefox
<shauno> inside the chroot will be trying to use the resolvconf inside the chroot (it can't see outside, that's the point).
<mapps> ah
<mapps> thanks
<daftykins> so just slap your router IP / 8.8.8.8 into /etc/resolv.conf
<mapps> resolv.conf is empty
<mapps> yea
<mapps> cheers
<daftykins> np
<mapps> didnt realise shauno  && dafty
<mapps> many thanks
<diddledan__> echo nameserver 8.8.8.8 > /etc/resolv.conf
<daftykins> ^_^ s'all good
<mapps> explains why i coould do an nslookup in one terminal and not in the other
<diddledan__> bingo
<daftykins> yipyip
<mapps> aha
<mapps> and now it works
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> \o/
<mapps> should i do upgrade && dist-upgrade|
<diddledan__> WHEEE
<diddledan__> apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
<mapps> oke:)
<diddledan__> note the first it update not upgrade
<diddledan__> is*
<mapps> ya
<mapps> ok done both..didnt take long
<mapps> hm
<mapps> howcome i dont need to run apt-get upgrade
<daftykins> dist-upgrade is an alternative
<diddledan__> dist-upgrade is a more forceful upgrade
<daftykins> so now: apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
<daftykins> see if it finds any packages that need to go on
<mapps> yea
<mapps> 36.5mb of packages
<daftykins> ooh
<mapps> install
<mapps> YES
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> so you could be brave now and boot into it
<mapps> waiting for it to finish this
<mapps> :d
<diddledan__> one the install is done
<mapps> then we will try i guess
<mapps> yea
<mapps> hope this works
<daftykins> you'll want to safely unmount it before reboot, just to be sure
<mapps> ah
<mapps> umount the chroot?
<daftykins> so you'll type 'exit' then 'sudo umount /dev/sda1'
<mapps> sudo umount /dev/sda1?
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> then just reboot
<daftykins> yank the flash drive, then we shall see :O
<diddledan__> sudo reboot, surely? :-p
<shauno> meh, it's a livecd, if you've unmounted the real disks you can reboot any which way you like.
<diddledan__> shauno: make me a sammich
<shauno> just make sure you exit the chroot before you umount.  else it'll tell you sdb1 isn't mounted but it is
<diddledan__> you also want to be sure your bash isn't cd'd into the directory you mounted it under
<shauno> (you have no mtab inside the chroot, which is where mount points are tracked)
<diddledan__> shauno: and no /proc/mounts, either
<shauno> they're usually linked to the same thing these days, no ?
<diddledan__> I'm unsure whether they're symlinked but they do show the same info
<diddledan__> in the same format even
<mapps> had a few errors
<mapps> bluez bluean and bluez-alsa;i386
<mapps> ignore and reboot?
<diddledan__> usually when chrooting a dead system I'll cp /proc/mounts /etc/mtab
<shauno> more just trying to avoid that if the chroot tells you sdb1 isn't mounted, it's lying, it's not safe to reboot yet
<daftykins> sounds only bluetooth related so probably no big deal, yeah
<shauno> I just mount proc in the chroot :)
<diddledan__> yeah I do that too
<shauno> anyway, not trying to confuse him.  just if the chroot tells you it's safe to reboot, it's lying
<mapps> heh
<mapps> so umount
<mapps> reboot
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> party time, excellent, etc.
<daftykins> </Bill and Ted>
<diddledan__> bogus
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> Azelphur: hi sir, how do?
<mapps> booting now
<mapps> just going downstairs to cook..hope this fixed it:)
<shauno> you're going to leave us in suspense?
<daftykins> mapps: no cliffhangers!
<mapps> lol
<mapps> logigng in now
<mapps> YES
<mapps> its worked i think..i can see the wireless icon
<shauno> you can has wifi?
<mapps> yep working
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> \o/
<mapps> thanks so much everyone:D gonna make a note of chroot and how this worked
<daftykins> ^_^
<shauno> and remember that when apt wants you to promise you know what you're doing, it knows better than you :p
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> I'm curious why libdb became essential though.  it's in universe on mine (lucid)
<daftykins> i think i'll be replacing my lucid VMs with trusty once it goes final
<daftykins> this one i'm on now only runs irssi yet i see it dip 2MB into swap XD
<daftykins> (128MB RAM allocated)
<shauno> well, I guess I have to replace them with something soonish
<daftykins> i think we have until 2015 for server
<shauno> atm I'm tempted to move it to deb7 just so I have the same thing everywhere though
<daftykins> =]
<diddledan__> I like using buntu everywhere
<diddledan__> debian is a bit _too_ conservative for my liking
<diddledan__> I like a bit of blood
<diddledan__> (from the bleeding edge)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: you should read the systemd debate on debian-tech-ctte then ;)
<MartijnVdS> LOTS of blood there
<diddledan__> lol
<diddledan__> yeah, I can imagine
<diddledan__> http://adafru.it/b94902
<directhex> yay, i have permissions from valve to disclose the takeup numbers on the debian promotion
<diddledan__> o_O
<directhex> 279. that is the number of keys issued so far to eligible DDs or DMs
<AlanBell> that is quite a lot
<shauno> silly questio, but one key = the whole kit & kaboodle?  (ie, 279 devs, not 279 software titles)
<diddledan__> I'm just sit here oblivious :p
<directhex> shauno, yes
<shauno> ta
<directhex> subscription 14, if you know your way around steamdb
<diddledan__> wow, that's a generous offer (I just read the debian devel announce post about it)
<mapps> so glad i asked here..i almost reinstalled whole thing daftykins :P
<mapps> daftykins,  around?
<diddledan__> asquare!
<mapps> got another query - infact this is what led me to endup screwing everythig up
<mapps> :P
<shauno> !ask  ;)
<mapps> root@dimension:/usr/local/squidGuard/db# squidGuard -C all
<mapps> DB->put: method not permitted before handle's open method
<mapps> not sure what to do about that
<mapps> i read its to do with libdm which is why i ended up removing 5.1 and causin problems
<mapps> any ideas  ive googled it but cant find too much info on it really
<shauno> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=894294   looks like it's trying to use something out of libdb4, and you have 5
<lubotu3> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 894294 in squidGuard "squidGuard: database update: BDB1565 DB->put: method not permitted before handle's open method" [High,Closed: currentrelease]
<shauno> per http://www.squidguard.org/Doc/known_issues.html  (first issue), BerkeleyDB up to version 4.6 is known to work properly. / Will be fixed in the next version.
<mapps> howcome theres nothing else anywhere though
<mapps> so i need to try and put 46 on?!
<shauno> or wait for an update; I'm not sure how it works with having multiple versions of the same library
<shauno> especially since today's trouble shows you require libdb for something else too
<mapps> yep
<mapps> removing it screwed everything up
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i could try and use squidguard from the repos
<mapps> but i was trying to learn to do things manually :)
<diddledan__> I'd always recommend to use the repo where possible
<shauno> seems 12.04 has 4.8, which would still be too recent.  otherwise I'd stick it in a VM
<mapps> ok probably a dmb question
<mapps> how do i 'remove' squidguard from source then /usr/local/squdguard
<shauno> not a dumb question - an awkward question
<mapps> :D
<diddledan__> yeah. you might have some luck going into the source you compiled and running sudo make uninsstall
<diddledan__> --s
<mapps> bakc in 10mins gotta walk to work
<mapps> ok
<diddledan__> http://rudd-o.com/linux-and-free-software/ways-in-which-zfs-is-better-than-btrfs </flamebait>
<map|work> yo
<map|work> so as i was saying how do you remove something that you compiled and made from source - rm -rf the dir isnt going to sort it al?
<map|work> damn everyones gone
<map|work> daftykins?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-08
<ali1234> there is no standard way
<ali1234> sometimes you can do make uninstall, but that almost never works
<map|work> and if you cant do that what do you do?
<ali1234> cry
<ali1234> then delete all the stuff by hand
<shauno> make install >alogfile, then grep out the filenames and nuke 'em
<map|work> ah
<map|work> so literally have to go through a logfile and then reverse 1 by 1?
<map|work> or i guess if youre good could write a script to do it>?
<shauno> actually, it looks like it just puts everything under /usr/local/squidGuard
<shauno> and if you tell it to use --prefix=/opt, it still puts most of it in /usr/local/squidGuard.  lovely.
<map|work> lol
<map|work> but in general if compilingand making by source u need to see the log and work out where everything is and manually rm?
<shauno> there's not really an 'in general', which is why I called it an awkward question
<map|work> so its a paion!
<shauno> usually I'd try to make install again and catch the output this time.  squidGuard, for example, decides not to give you any output
<map|work> ha
<map|work> thanks
<shauno> if you're a bit more organised, you can use something like 'checkinstall', but that needs to be done before you install, not after
<map|work> i see
<map|work> so i need to basically just rm -rf ./usr/local/squid
<shauno> squidGuard, not squid ;)
<map|work> haha yea
<shauno> for this one, it seems so.  generally that'd be wrong.  squidGuard seems to enjoy being wrong
<map|work> yea thought so normally it leaves stuff in places eh
<shauno> I tend to put stuff like this in /opt/whatever.  that way I have it nice and contained when I want to nuke it (or backup, etc)
<map|work> hi ahayzen
<ahayzen> map|work, o/
<map|work> quiet in here tonight
<shauno> I guess normal people sleep
<diddledan__> nevar!
<diddledan__> SLEEP BEGONE!
<diddledan__> I'm busy trying to work out why my cheapo nas is thrashing the hdd and not letting me do anything
<diddledan__> (wd mybook live)
<map|work> ah
<map|work> thrashing the hdd?:| doesnt sound good?
<diddledan__> looks like "mediacrawler" is running
<diddledan__> I guess that's an indexing thing for music
<map|work> what does the nas run?
<diddledan__> whatever wd decided to put on there
<map|work> just wondered so not like you can ssh to it is it just a web interface?
<diddledan__> the web interface isn't responding
<diddledan__> I've backdoored it to allow ssh, hence how I know mediacrawler is running
<diddledan__> but I can't tell you anything about what mediacrawler is because I didn't put it there
<map|work> ah
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> sorry been away gaming with friends
<map|work> hello
<map|work> :D
<map|work> just glad it's all working:)
<daftykins> ^_^
<map|work> well i asay all - no idea how to solve the original thing that led me to mess it all up
<map|work> LOL
<daftykins> hehe, what was that?
<map|work> installing squigGuard from source DB_>put cant be something something to do with libdm
<map|work> so i removed it as we know
<map|work> lol
<daftykins> \o/
<shauno> this is oddly fascinating; http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/02070836-isee-3.html
<daftykins> wow
<daftykins> surely they could somehow do it in software from the ISS
<daftykins> oh ok it's a hardware limitation
<shauno> it seems pretty similar to the bands Apollo used
<daftykins> this is what makes me laugh about sci-fi like Stargate where they can plug into alien technology and talk to it
<daftykins> usually with Sam Carter carrying a Dell laptop and a network cable
<daftykins> well well well, the aliens happened to develop CSMA/CD precisely the same way eh?
<daftykins> then ethernet above it too? my word.
<shauno> http://mdkenny.customer.netspace.net.au/ISEE-3.pdf  lists the frequencies, they match pretty closely to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_S-band
<shauno> which makes sense given 1971.  but most the DSN stuff is on 8.4-ish GHz now
<daftykins> D:
<shauno> hopefuly whoever ditched the old gear in '99 feels like a proper prat now  lol
<diddledan__> that's really sad :-(
<diddledan__> poor little space ship that could saying "hello, can I play" but being ignored like the kid nobody wants on their football team
<ali1234> would be funny if some hams hijacked it
<shauno> yeah, that's which way the comments are going.  which is .. fascinating and terrifying
<shauno> reaching it would be a hellish interesting challenge.  but without any guidance - what do they send?
<ali1234> everything, until something happens
<shauno> that's the terrifying part.  what if 'goodnight' is lower down the list of commands than 'turn around' ?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> will it come around again in another 10 years? or just drift off into space?
<daftykins> it concerned me the way they said it was catching up with Earth, as though it might just enter the atmosphere and burn up
<shauno> it sounds like it'd catch up again, but .. if they put it in this orbit in 88, and it's just come back now; it'd repeat in 2040?
<ali1234> it kind of implies they had contact in 1999
<shauno> right, but that's DSN .. it doesn't need to be close, that's the same equipment we talk to mars with
<shauno> ('deep space network')
<diddledan__> shauno: you're totally a space geek :-D
<ali1234> i don't get it... is the problem that you can only do two way when it is close by?
<shauno> it sounds more like there was just no point in giving it commands any earlier
<diddledan__> I think the idea is they wanted to tell it to slow down to re-enter earth-orbit
<diddledan__> although there was mention of sending it back off to the sun for more science
<diddledan__> the little space ship that could can do science!
<shauno> the helicentric bit .. if you start off in an orbit that matches ours.  and then distort it so it's a little egg-shaped
<diddledan__> play kerbal and you'll get an idea of how orbits work :-p
<shauno> you end up with an orbit that crosses ours at its 'high' point, but overall has a lower period - so it orbits less than 365 days
<shauno> so then you get this phasing effect where most the times it pops anywhere near our orbit, we're somewhere else
<shauno> heh, yes, exactly .. this is the same method you use to meet a space station in KSP :)
<map|work> hmm where can i find some doc about setting up squidGuard from the repos
<shauno> /usr/share/doc/squidguard would be a sensible place to check
<shauno> especially if there's a readme.debian (unless ubuntu rename those?), that should have bits that are distro-specific
<map|work> ah is that where it puts docs? didnt actually know
<shauno> yeah; you'll find a *lot* of bedtime reading in /usr/share/doc :)
<shauno> I'll admit most my understanding of orbital mechanics is from games :)  but my understanding is that the 'rendevous' should re-occur every (year/(our orbital period - its orbital period)) years
<map|work> anyone still around?
<diddledan__> yup
<map|work> still cant get squidguard to work LOL
<map|work> dafty - Setting up squidguard (1.5-1) ...                                                                                                            Rebuild SquidGuard database - this can take a while.                                                                                         DB->put: method not permitted before handle's open method                                                                                    ^Cdpk
<map|work> that was the error - oops didnt format too well
<daftykins> no experience with it i'm afraid
<map|work> thanks anyway :D
<map|work> getting stuck at same part whether i use source/apt
<shauno> does look like exactly the same bug again :/
<map|work> so i dont know what to do - when you google it there's not much on it and nothing recent and ubuntu
<shauno> 3am and I'm watching robocop.  this can't end well :/
<map|work> haha the old one i assume?
<shauno> yeah
<shauno> I don't think the new one's out on .. err .. err .. blueray yet
<daftykins> -e
<map|work> -f
<daftykins> 0o
<map|work> going crazy with this/..tried from source..got that error..so tried from the repos got that error
<map|work> jst looked on packages.ubuntu grabbed the libdm they say there ..installed it and it says it was the same as i had
<map|work> arghh
<daftykins> could be a bug
<daftykins> map|work: is squidguard still installed?
<daftykins> http://www.squidguard.org/Doc/known_issues.html
<daftykins> Fix/Workaround:
<daftykins> BerkeleyDB up to version 4.6 is known to work properly.
<map|work> not atm - yea but i have 5.1 can i install an old version at same time?
<daftykins> doubt it, try obtaining an old'un
<shauno> uninstalling it is what caused his earlier wifi problems .. not sure I'd mess with that too lightly
<daftykins> uninstalling the BerkeleyDB portion?
<daftykins> oh was this the libdb malarkey?
<shauno> right; they're one in the same
<daftykins> i officially just turned the page in my head to catch up XD
<daftykins> though your package of squidguard is 1.5-1
<shauno> heh, I know the feeling, logrotate's already ran :p
<map|work> yea
<map|work> thats the one from the repos dafty
<map|work> http://packages.ubuntu.com/saucy/squidguard
<daftykins> maybe their website is just horrifically outdated then?
<daftykins> you know, another thought occurs
<map|work> give up?
<daftykins> i know nothing about BerkeleyDB, but the error looks to be to do with setting up a db
<map|work> heh
<daftykins> what if you could do it manually?
<shauno> if I was really determined, I'd build 4.6 into /opt/somewhere and then build squidguard with ./configure --with-db=/opt/somewhere
<daftykins> as they say it's obviously tripping up due to a syntax issue between versions
<map|work> yea its when it tries to make the blacklist files into the db - no idea how it all mentions squidcard -C all to make the db file
<map|work> see i dont get it..squidguards really popul;ar from what ive heard so surely if this issue was commonplace id see more when i google search
<shauno> but I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable hand-holding that one.  especially at 4am
<daftykins> map|work: do you have an older setup of it anywhere else with existing db's?
<map|work> nope only recently been looking at it
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=894294
<lubotu3> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 894294 in squidGuard "squidGuard: database update: BDB1565 DB->put: method not permitted before handle's open method" [High,Closed: currentrelease]
<daftykins> that seems so relevant, except for all the differences XD
<map|work> yea
<shauno> exactyly the same one I fuond 5 hours ago :)
<map|work> as i say if its a normal error im getting as ive tried from source and repos wouldnt you expect more on the ubuntu forums etc?
<shauno> but it is reassuringly recent
<shauno> it doesn't appear to be that well maintained, to be honest.  there's bugs on launchpad 3 years old and still marked new.
<shauno> eg, bug #757474 is still marked new
<lubotu3> bug 757474 in squidguard (Ubuntu) "squidGuard expressionlist not working in 10.04 LTS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757474
<shauno> random offtopic before I go to bed; slightly disturbing that detroit looks better in robocop than it does in real life
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> perhaps cars still needed to be made back then?
<shauno> I always found it strange that michigan has no equivalent of an MOT test.  as long as the police don't actually spot significant chunks falling off, and all your lights work, you're good
<shauno> seems like a sensible move that'd add a bit more turnover to a market they depend on
<map|work> lol thats odd never knew that
<map|work> daftykins - io thought squidguard was meant to be really popular though
<daftykins> i know of squid, not familiar with that'un
<daftykins> shauno: we don't have an MOT down here
<daftykins> you get pulled over for anything not meeting the highway code and ordered to report to the police station to show their guy you fixed it
<map|work> so you need to know what meets highway6 code yourself ideally
<map|work> guess it should be obvious?
<map|work> hm found 4.6 source
<diddledan__> http://phk.freebsd.dk/_downloads/FOSDEM_2014.pdf
<mapps> hoorah home
<mapps> whats that diddledan__
<MartijnVdS> morning mapps
<mapps> morning MartijnVdS
<mapps> up early for a weekend mate
<MartijnVdS> 7am, an hour later than weekdays :)
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> O_O
<diddledan__> freenas + zfs or custom-jobby + btrfs?
<mapps> u guys not slept?:D
<diddledan__> mapps: neither have you :-p
<mapps> i work nights!
<mapps> been to work and home now:P
<diddledan__> aah
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: I'd go for the custom one, just because apt > "cd /usr/local/ports/whatever; make install"
<MartijnVdS> woop: http://www.openmediavault.org/
<diddledan__> yeah I'm thinking custom jobby too
<MartijnVdS> you'll even get a nice front-end :)
<MartijnVdS> though btrfs is still "roadmap"
<mapps> erm what the
<mapps> i didnt get an error doing squidGuard -C all ?!
<MartijnVdS> squid is scary.
<MartijnVdS> nice.. https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/installation-guide/amd64/automatic-install.html (note the URL) claims it's about 11.10
<foobarry> sleepless night :(
<MartijnVdS> does anyone here have experience with preseeding an Ubuntu installation?
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26033685
<foobarry> in other news, people are shocked that xfactor might not be genuine
<foobarry> EA are the suck
<MartijnVdS> they are :(
<SuperMatt> <3 pipelight
<knightwise> mornin everyone
<SuperMatt> morning knightwise
<brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> ello
<Gone_Protoss> Hello
<czajkowski> anyone here running Trusty ?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yup
<AlanBell> czajkowski: it went a bit funny yesterday with a US keyboard layout, but is fairly happy today
<moreati> Afternoon all. I customize the touch pad of my MBP running Trusty Tahir with  `synclient TapButton3=2 HorizTwoFingerScroll=1 PalmDetect=1`. However if I've run this the laptop will spontaneously resume from suspend, a few seconds after I've closed the lid.
<moreati> I suspect the laptop screen is causing a touch event, probably a 4-finger touch event, because the unity menu is open once I unlock the session following a spotaneous resume.
<penguin42> moreati: I guess it might be possible to change that config back in a hook before the rsuspend
<moreati> I'd like to investigate the code that (I assume) that controls the touchpad during suspend, to see if my script has interfered somehow. Anyone know roughly where that code lives?
<moreati> e.g. is it in upstart? unity? X? libsomething?
<moreati> penguin42: that's ... a damn good idea.
<penguin42> moreati: I'd have thought it would be in /etc/pm - that's where the hooks go for any specials
<penguin42> moreati: Or /usr/lib/pm-utils
<moreati> penguin42: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnderstandingSuspend looks like a good primer so far
<penguin42> moreati: Cool - although watch out, it changes quite often :-)
<moreati> ââoh yes UnderstandingSuspend (last edited 2011-06-22
<czajkowski> AlanBell: if you click about ubuntu what version do you see
<czajkowski> AlanBell: if I click about I see 13.10 and the same for the splash
<czajkowski> but I am pretty sure I'm running trusty as when I do the updates it's pulling in from trusty archive
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yeah, 13.10, they don't update that until quite late in the cycle
<AlanBell> czajkowski: cat /etc/lsb-release
<AlanBell> that should show 14.10
 * AlanBell is off to London to see the Queen musical later
<moreati> "One is the champion, one's friend. One will keep fighting to the end" The Queen musical
<AlanBell> heh, yes!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: yup tis, thanks
<jussi> anyone around?  my permissions reading is getting rusty... what does -rw-rw-r-- mean again?
<BigRedS> jussi, owner may read and write, group-owner may read and write, everyone else may only read
<jussi> BigRedS: thanks
<MartijnVdS> whoa.. NL on 1, 2, 3 @ speed skating
<jussi> BigRedS: and this one drwxrwxr-x ?
<BigRedS> that's a directory; user and owner may enter (r), list (x) and create files in, everyone else ownly enter and list
<BigRedS> jussi, (the d at the beginning marks it as a directory)
<MartijnVdS> woo, I have a GPS NTP working :)
<MartijnVdS> now all I need to do is fine-tune it
<BigRedS> whoop!
<BigRedS> We got that at work, took some time to get the GPS thingy into a position whereby it could both talk to our NTP server *and* the sattelites
<MartijnVdS> yes, that *is* the hard part :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ah you're right my keyboard is USA layout
<czajkowski> """"
<czajkowski> @@@
<mapps> how can i use apt-get but tell it to skip/ignore a related/dependent package?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: you can't install a package if its dependencies aren't satisfied
<mapps> argh
<MartijnVdS> you can install it if its *recommendations* aren't satisfied
<MartijnVdS> apt-get --no-install-recommends install foo
<mapps> this is so irritating squiguard in the repos installs squid3 too - it needs squid or squid3 ..but i have squid instaled but for some reason it doesnt see it and installs squid
<MartijnVdS> mapps: apt-cache show squid ->
<MartijnVdS> Description-en: dummy transitional package from squid to squid3
<mapps> when i compiled from source i couldnt get the blacklists to convert to db ..then when i used repos it worked..but now i had squid and squid3
<mapps> what does that mean for my existing squid setup?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: backup the config, remove any squid packages and self-compiled binaries, apt-get install squid3
<MartijnVdS> put back config
<mapps> hm
<mapps> hm
<mapps> think thats best?
<MartijnVdS> why not? at least you'll only have one squid installed
<mapps> ok
<mapps> copied squd_passwd/squid.conf and blacklists to a tmp dir
<mapps> now rm -rf /usr/local/squid ? never sure how to remove when compiled from source as i was saying yesterday
<DJones> bigcalm: Just for info, I queried that Lenovo laptop because the specs were conflicting, had a reply from somebody who'd bought one "I recieved this laptop yesterday. Not as decribed, has a i7 4702mq processor, no backlit keyboard and 1366 x 788 screen. Called amazon who assured me they will exchange for correct laptop as described. I'm very doubtful, but live in hope. Will let you know the outcome."  So not 1920*1080 and a slower processor
<BigRedS> DJones, I'm not sure that was aimed at me
<BigRedS> Wait, it wasn't
<BigRedS> eurgh
<BigRedS> Oh right, I've somehow coloured differen't people's entire messages differently
<mapps> ;]
<brobostigon> oh yes, foursquare on my pebble, :)
<mapps> =]
 * foobarry tried making a diorama today. who wants to see?
<mapps> hmm what to do now
<mapps> whats that foobarry
<foobarry> made a little airfield scene..
<mapps> arghhhhhhhhhhhhh
<mapps> Setting up squidguard (1.5-1) ...
<mapps> Move log file directory to new directory /var/log/squidguard.
<mapps> chown: missing operand after âproxy:proxyâ
<mapps> Try 'chown --help' for more information.
<mapps> dpkg: error processing squidguard (--configure):
<mapps> another problem now:/ dunno what its doing
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/JrGCaPn.jpg
<popey> moo
<foobarry> baa
<popey> nice diorama foobarry
<popey> i like those
<popey> which is one reason why i like going to places where they have big train sets out
<foobarry> thanks popey
<foobarry> didn't take very long. painted. white glue, then scatter grass/
<foobarry> quite easy to do with the kids, except i'm alone today :P
<mapps> whats squidguard trying to do?!'/
<BigRedS> mapps, have a look at /var/lib/dpkg/info/squidguard.postinst and see what's in the configure section
<BigRedS> specifically, it's trying to chown something and invoking chown wrong
<mapps> ah
<mapps> thanks
<BigRedS> so probably using a variable that's not been initialised
<BigRedS> you can just hash out the chown, do it manually and then do apt-get -f install
<BigRedS> if you trust that you've correctly guessed what it wanted to do
<BigRedS> I fix too many of my problems by editing postinst scripts :)
<mapps> <TJ-> mapps: spearhead There's a bug in the update-squidguard post-install script; fixed in Debian/Trusty
<BigRedS> ah, handy
<mapps> cant see anythng on it tho?
<mapps> hm
<czajkowski> hmm cant seem to get my keyboard to revert to UK from USA in trusty
<czajkowski> slightly baffling
<foobarry> what do people use to import photos? shotwell never remebmers the ones i've already imprted
<BigRedS> rsync
<foobarry> so if i have a zillion pics on the card, it takes forever to scan
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> which command do u use?
<BigRedS> might not be as featureful as you're used to, but I just periodically do rsync -avz /media/<daft string my phone's at>/dcim ~/pictures/from-phone
<foobarry> ah ok
<foobarry> doesn't really work  out for camera
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1277900
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1277900 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Shortcuts to settings panels no longer open panels" [Undecided,New]
<popey> anyone get that on trusty
<popey> ?
<czajkowski> popey: yup
<popey> can you confirm pls?
<czajkowski> popey: done already
<czajkowski> popey: AlanBell said there was an issue yesterday with the the fact the keyboard goes into a US layout
<czajkowski> nm restarted
<popey> I dont see that here
<czajkowski> all working fine
<popey> also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1277905 if anyone has miencraft or titan attacks on 14.04
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1277905 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Game windows (minecraft, titan attacks, maybe others) on Intel are transparent and no longer playable" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> hmm no games installed to test sorry
<popey> np
<DJones> BigRedS: yeah, that should have been bigcalm
<mapps> hm
<mapps> wonder how long itll take till i can make my hair into a ponytail
<mapps> trouble is it just looks messy as it grows for now
<MartijnVdS> also, if you have any kind of baldness, it'll look *wrong*
<BigRedS> DJones I think it was
<mapps> i dont /dont have a receeding hairline either
<mapps> just my hair goes curly
<mapps> i coukd stragghten it
<mapps> :D
<NET||abuse> i'm having an annoying bootup problem, when lightdm should be starting, i'm getting a blank screen with blinking ;cursor :(
<penguin42> NET||abuse: Check /var/lo/lightdm to see why
<NET||abuse> hitting th epower button switches off the machine after barely a couple lines of output, i get to grub and i can go to recovery with networking if i try
<NET||abuse> but blank screen blinking cursor on normal boot, also I can't ctrl+alt+f1-6 to a tty
<BigRedS> can you boot into recovery mode?
<NET||abuse> uyes
<NET||abuse> so far not with a gui, just command line
<BigRedS> but you can use that command line to see what the lightdm log says?
<NET||abuse> oh yes, absolutely.
<NET||abuse> just waiting for recovery networking tostartup
<NET||abuse> takes a while for that bit.
<BigRedS> oh cool
<NET||abuse> looks like it started X server, last message it says is registering seat with bus path /org/freedesktop/DisplayManager/Seat0
<NET||abuse> then, it's writitng to x-0.log so have to check that i guess
<NET||abuse> so lightdm/x-0.log says (EE) Fatal server error: no screens found
<NET||abuse> before that says vesa: Ignoring device with bound kernel driver
<NET||abuse> Xorg.0.log says glx will be loaded by default, (WW) xmir is not to be loaded... then loads of loading of glx and besa
<NET||abuse> vesa: Ignoring device with a bound kernel driver
<NET||abuse> (WW) Falling back to old probe method for vesa
<NET||abuse> (EE) Screen 0 deleted because of no matching config section.
<NET||abuse> Unload module: "vesa"
<NET||abuse> (EE) Device(s)detected, but none matched those in the config file.
<NET||abuse> (EE) failed to laod module "nvidia" (module does no exist, 0)
<penguin42> NET||abuse: Hang on, use a pastebin to give the whole of the Xorg.0.log
<NET||abuse> urgh,, how when i'm on a recovery console?
<NET||abuse> .. i guess i could post the file up to something.
<penguin42> NET||abuse: Try installing the pastebinit program
<NET||abuse> cool app.. just reading the man file.
<NET||abuse> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6898562/
<NET||abuse> emm, lightdm log is ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/6898568
<penguin42> NET||abuse: Right
<penguin42> NET||abuse: So lightdm is going Waaah! Where did X go
<penguin42> NET||abuse: Now, X - hmm it's loaded the Nouveau driver but for some reason you seem to be missing /dev/fb0 - which is a shame!
<NET||abuse> hehe
<NET||abuse> "a shame" that's one way to put it
<MartijnVdS> maybe both nvidia and nouveau are loaded/trying to load?
<NET||abuse> i'll purge them all and just load a basic driver? Do i need at least one to even have the failsafe load?
<daftykins> do you have a misconfigured /etc/X11/xorg.conf too?
<NET||abuse> so wipe out all nvidia* packages? Also kill the Xorg.conf ( can i just delete it and let xserver-xorg dpkg-reconfigure )
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: you don't need a xorg.conf
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: unless you're a *very* special case ;)
<NET||abuse> ahah, ok will kill it.
<daftykins> move it to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.old
<NET||abuse> yeh, did that.
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: rm2 () { mv "$1" "$1".`date +%s` }
<diddledan__> MartijnVdS: I can make a more cryptic version of that: rm2() { mv "$1{,`date +%s`}" }
<diddledan__> :-p
<diddledan__> I like cryptic
<MartijnVdS> woo :)
<diddledan__> ooh, forgot the "."
<diddledan__> put a . after the ,
<diddledan__> I like replacing builtins with fancy stuff too - so instead of calling it rm2, call it rm :-p
<diddledan__> then you can never delete anything without really thinking about it
<SuperEngineer> "SCO 0 - 20 ENG" ... now that's what I call a happy scoreline at the top of my screen
<SuperEngineer> [sympathies to a friendly Scot called Jason - travelled 7 hours to see that at the stadium - then has to be in Essex for Monday]
<shauno> this is why I don't see the need for independence :)
<SuperEngineer> :D
<shauno> I understand that czechoslovakia split up so that they could have two ice hockey teams.  we already have them!
<SuperEngineer> ba-boom!
<diddledan__> "big bada boom"
<MartijnVdS> Multipass?
 * SuperEngineer walked into a pub at Wembley when England/Scotland rugby was at the stadium yonks ago - pub full of Scots - friendliest peeps I ever met
<diddledan__> bingo!
<MartijnVdS> Yay, building my own kernel for the first time in ages (not counting OpenWRT)
<MartijnVdS> .. on a Raspberry Pi
<diddledan__> MartijnVdS: actually doing the compile on the pi?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: yes!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: I have time
<diddledan__> lol
<diddledan__> nice
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: isn't a raspberry kernel called a pip?
<shauno> time, and pie - a dangerous combination
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I have no idea :)
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<shauno> my time-sink for the day is geoguessr.com
<penguin42> haha yeh that's good
<shauno> "don't you have real games to play?"  (3 hours later)  "damnit russia!"
<diddledan__> I suck at that
<diddledan__> I'm usually an average of 15000 miles out
<shauno> I did at first.  you learn to start spotting details
<shauno> but I still can't tell the difference between the US north, canada, and scanadavia.  except norway have impossibly cute bus stops
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> if satellite dishes point south, you're north of the equator, and vice versa - this is often the only way I can tell australia from california!
<penguin42> haha I hadn't spotted that type of thing
<MartijnVdS> shauno: though you can't tell parts of South Africa from Australia like that
<MartijnVdS> shauno: especially on a dirt road in the middle of nowhere
<shauno> yeah, the middle of nowhere is difficult.  I end up clicking around for ages looking for another car
<diddledan__> anywho, I'm off
<MartijnVdS> OK, I'm somewhere in southern europe.. but where..
<shauno> if it looks like it's from the 90s, you're in australia.  if it looks like the 80s, you're in africa.  if it looks like the 70s, you're in russia
<MartijnVdS> Game finished!
<MartijnVdS> You got 11209 points in total.
<shauno> I'm stuck in snow :/  it all looks the same
<MartijnVdS> wow, russian roads are bad
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sn674svabjotr9g/IMG_20140208_190836.jpg
<daftykins> :)
<popey> awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
<shauno> australia is difficult.  you can grow old and die before you find a landmark
<popey> daftykins: what's it's name? my daughter is asking
<daftykins> popey: she's called Mischief, though that was her existing name from those who had her before :)
<popey> heh
<daftykins> popey: this'll get your wee ones: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v3etsy1wghkq2oc/IMG-20131213-WA0000.jpg
<popey> awww
<popey> what is it in my brain that makes me find cats cute
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we're biologically programmed to like big eyed creatures
<popey> elephants have big eyes â»
<MartijnVdS> relatively big eyes, compared to the rest of the face ;)
<DJones> Speaking of cats, how do you catch one? https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1/1229836_10152287885603140_536745954_n.jpg
<MartijnVdS> this is why anime works 8-)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: bags also work :)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> popey: this is where she sleeps - https://www.dropbox.com/s/06uodq1hcomp1hn/IMG-20140112-WA0000.jpg
<daftykins> curled up beside me in bed for warmth XD
<popey> aww
<popey> Salem sleeps on Clare's head
<popey> or on my legs
<daftykins> hahaha!
<popey> if we let him
<popey> but they get locked in the kitchen these days because sky is annoying at 5am
<shauno> 11,761.  not bad considering I put australia in africa again
<daftykins> daft question - i don't suppose there's a trusty mini ISO yet?
<moreati> if it looks like the 20s you're in ____?
<DJones> Dr Who's Tardis
<DJones> ?
<moreati> I was thinking Japan
<DJones> I was thinking 1920's
<shauno> I haven't had asia yet.  it seems to like giving me a lot of scandanavia & africa
<ali1234> anyone got land's end yet?
<shauno> it hasn't given me the UK yet, and I've been playing for hours.  belgium was the closest I think
<MartijnVdS> Belgium, man!
<ali1234> everywhere looks like belgium
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: nah, some places are too nice, or too sunny
<shauno> it just looked like france but with our weather
<ali1234> latitude is easier to guess
<shauno> most of europe is pretty easy.  russia's difficult because a lot of it has nothing there
<shauno> I'm becoming more and more convinced that australia is part of africa.
<MartijnVdS> I'm on a *pier*?!
<MartijnVdS> full of Asian-looking people?!
<daftykins> hahaha
<MartijnVdS> with European buildings in the background?!
<ali1234> seems like these are 50% tourist spots and 50% fields
<shauno> MartijnVdS: vancouver?
<MartijnVdS> "Welcome to Tamsui"
<penguin42> it gave me one inside a museum or something in Japan
<MartijnVdS> it's the northern tip of Taiwan..
<MartijnVdS> uh.. walking trip along a rocky coast?
<MartijnVdS> and a boat "Mature cruises"..
<xalyy> Hey all
<daftykins> hi
<shauno> "Power Spectral Density of a Synchronous Data Stream Generated by a Binary, Zero Mean, Cyclostationary Sequence"   the more I read, the less convinced I am that hams would be able to help that lost solar probe :/  this stuff is terrifying
<MartijnVdS> shauno: lost solar proble?
<shauno> oh, something I came across last night; http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/02070836-isee-3.html
<xalyy> Guys is Webmin a good idea for starting a VPS host?
<shauno> an old mission that's finally going to wrap back around to earth, but we no longer have the equipment to intruct it
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's like V'ger
<daftykins> why does 'who' in a TTY not show me someone SSH'd in? 0o
<shauno> webmin is generally a bad idea for anything.  Zentyal is the closest thing to a modern replacement; https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Zentyal
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: because the person didn't get a tty (ssh foo command_here)
<daftykins> didn't it usually show those logins too? 0o
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: no?
<xalyy> Guys? :D
<daftykins> xalyy: if you want to actually host things for others you really should gain a good grasp of things from the ground up, without using software that holds your hand
<xalyy> What you mean?
<daftykins> you should learn the hard way before using something that makes it easy
<daftykins> :)
<xalyy> Ohh, ok but why I can't ask the experts opinion? :P
<xalyy> Is Webmin with Virtualmin is user friendly and is it a good idea to build a very early VPS host?
<daftykins> what's your native language?
<xalyy> Hungarian :D why?
<daftykins> just i could detect a language barrier problem
<xalyy> Ohh
<penguin42> xalyy: webmin is easy, I've not used it in years though - it's generally not regarded as very secure - so make sure you can't get to it remotely
<xalyy> Ugh
<xalyy> They can easily hack it?
<DJones> !webmin | xalyy If you're using Ubuntu, webmin isn't recommended,
<lubotu3> xalyy If you're using Ubuntu, webmin isn't recommended,: webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system.
<MartijnVdS> like we said earlier, it's best to learn how libvirt works, especially if you want to *sell* the service
<xalyy> Then what should I use? or Webmin which OS does fully compatible?
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: I don't think webmin is a good idea on any oS
<penguin42> xalyy: It was quite popular maybe 15 years ago :-)
<xalyy> Wow :D
<MartijnVdS> and even then people shuddered at the thought of it ;)
<xalyy> Then what do you prefer guys? What should I use?
<MartijnVdS> just ssh
<xalyy> As cPanel alternative just free
<MartijnVdS> virsh, maybe some puppet or chef or ansible to manage multiple machines
<MartijnVdS> that's what I'd use if I was starting a VPS host anyway
<penguin42> xalyy: What type of stuff are you admining ?
<xalyy> VPS I said :P Windows VPS
<penguin42> xalyy: virtmanager if you want to manage VMs
<MartijnVdS> virt-manager*
<penguin42> xalyy: It's good for simple stuff, I know people who really like proxmox for doing more complicated stuff
<penguin42> oh yeh
<xalyy> So Proxmox is a good choice?
<penguin42> I've not used it myself, but I know people who really like it
<xalyy> Okay
<xalyy> Yeah I just see it looks really good and efficient
<xalyy> And its free :D
<xalyy> Thanks :)
<map|work> evening
<xalyy> Hey all
<xalyy> Just installed proxmox as you guys said but I have some problems :S
<xalyy> The default ip address with 8006 port on the browser not does anything
<xalyy> What I done wrong?
<xalyy> Someone? :s
<BigRedS> I've never touched proxmox but what do you mean by "default ip address with 8006 port on the browser not does anything"? Your browser fails to connect, shows a blank pagE?
<xalyy> Back
<xalyy> Yes
<xalyy>  mydedicatedserverip:8006
<xalyy> Not loads
<daftykins> try http://127.0.0.1:8006/
<daftykins> if you're running it locally
<shauno> part of me doesn't want to make suggestions because I'm pretty sure he's just digging himself a deeper hole
<daftykins> *nod*
<shauno> but I'm pretty sure centos has a firewall by default
<xalyy> Centos?
<xalyy> Im not run it locally
<xalyy> By the way is hostname can be the problem?
<daftykins> more than likely
<xalyy> And how do I know what is the hostname of my dedicated?
<xalyy> But lol? http://gyazo.com/51af3a645eac1c4ce26e4a8ae960463a.png if I add mydedip:80
<xalyy> U see it works
<daftykins> right but that's port 80
<xalyy> And
<xalyy> What can I do
<shauno> if you're expecting it to be on port 8006, you want yourip:8006 not yourip:80
<xalyy> Yes
<xalyy> But if it not works
<xalyy> 8006 not works
<daftykins> maybe you didn't start the service
<ali1234> Azelphur: you know the nvidia basemosiac thing? that only affects people who have two graphics cards right?
<ali1234> if i buy one graphics card that supports four monitors, that will work okay?
<Azelphur> should do, yea
<Azelphur> although I wouldn't put it past nvidia to remove functionality
<Azelphur> they've done it before, they are the EA of drivers
<ali1234> well, yes, but i'm not buying ati
<ali1234> is it worth getting anything more than a 660?
<daftykins> 660's are a good price to performance point
<daftykins> helped a mate with a new build recently that had one
<Azelphur> my 570 seems to still do fine with most things at 1440p
<ali1234> well the sensible options look like 660, 760, or 770
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-09
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOMX3deeW6Q
<daftykins> not the first and certainly not the last :)
<daftykins> "
<daftykins> 'Tainted Love' Performed By Disk Drives Will Have You Geek Out"
<mapps> hey
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> kernel is still compiling :|
<mapps> hey MartijnVdS
<mapps> just gets up?
<MartijnVdS> raspberry pi...
<MartijnVdS> mapps: yeah
<mapps> i just got home:D went on casino and now vodka and sprite
<mapps> :D
<MartijnVdS> ooh! ooh!
<MartijnVdS>   LINK    vmlinux
<MartijnVdS> http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19c35oidyf35igif/original.gif
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: for reference: Raspberry Pi kernel compile on the Pi took about 12 hours (@ 900MHz, "Medium" overclock setting)
<xalyy> hey
<xalyy> someone used proxmox before?
<directhex> gah, chrome is broken
<MartijnVdS> directhex: how?
<directhex> dunno. i deleted the config folder & fixed itr
<MartijnVdS> oh you hit the "Couldn't load your profile" bug?
<MartijnVdS> I get that every few months
<popey> i had that recently
<popey> after my laptop died when out of battery
<brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
<czajkowski> aaloha
<czajkowski> so trusty is running nicely
<xalyy> hEyt
<xalyy> Someone used proxmox before? :S
<czajkowski> I still have that annoying bug which find it hard to reproduce but does exist. where you shut down your machine and it restarts. most anonying when you#'re on a plane
<xalyy> Can someone help me about proxmox?
<czajkowski> xalyy: it's kinda quiet in here at the weekend, maybe explain the problem abd someone might see it
<xalyy> Okay
<xalyy> Well I made a virutal box for testing out the proxmox and installed the iso then tried to open the https://myip:8006 web interface but it not works
<popey> czajkowski: i never shut my laptop down
<popey> uhm. system settings seems to be missing a date/time thing in trusty
<popey> or am I blind
<popey> I can't see how to change my time (am in the wrong timezone)
<AlanBell> popey: mine is gone too
<popey> AlanBell: bug 1278063
<lubotu3> bug 1278063 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "date and time settings missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278063
<popey> pls confirm
<Laney> do you have unity-control-center-datetime installed?
<Laney> oh sorry, got to go
<ali1234> gooby pls
<AlanBell> Laney: nope, I didn't have that
<ali1234> will that also fix bug 1074314?
<lubotu3> bug 1074314 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime configuration panel only works in Unity session" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074314
<popey> Laney: I didn't, just figured that out and updated the bug
<ali1234> lol so the reason it's broken is because they renamed the panel and then forgot to update the gnome .desktop
<AlanBell> or have not yet got round to updating the .desktop
<ali1234> change was commited two weeks ago
<popey> bug 1277900 also
<awilkins> xalyy, Have you set up the NAT stuff for your VM?
<lubotu3> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1277900 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277900). The error has been logged
<popey> oof
<popey> bug 1277900 also
<popey> silly bot â»
<ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-datetime/trunk.14.04/revision/300
<ali1234> i take back what i previously said
<ali1234> it's actually been intentionally broken
<xalyy> awilkins: What you mean?
<awilkins> xalyy, When you have a VM, it's isolated from the network unless you specifically set up network ports for other machines to communicate with it
<ali1234> popey: your other bug is a dupe, at least for datetime
<awilkins> The default setup on VirtualBox is, AFAIK, NAT
<popey> feel free to mark it as such
<popey> i thougt it might be but couldn't see another
<awilkins> Which means you have to map ports on the VM to ports on your host machine if you want to communicate with the server inside
<awilkins> Have a look at the "Advanced" dialog in the network setup
<ali1234> you'll have to change your shortcut because the panel applet has been renamed in order to prevent it from working with g-c-c, this will also invalidate your shortcut
<popey> or bin and re-create it I guess.
<popey> shame
<ali1234> just change "indicator-datetime" to "datetime"
<popey> it was sound, but I understand
<ali1234> and g-c-c to u-c-c
<popey> just removed it and re-dragged it in from the dash
<ali1234> also why the heck do you have shortcuts to individual settings on the launcher?
<popey> you are not the first to ask this â»
<popey> I use the sound applet a lot
<ali1234> so do i but i just clik the sound indicator
<popey> docking station + bluetooth headphones + linux = annoyance
<xalyy> Ok im back
<popey> faster to super+9
<popey> for me
<ali1234> no.
<popey> my sound menu is huge, so click then go all the way to the bottom to get sound settings
<xalyy> So
<xalyy> Im here at the advanced settings
<xalyy> Do I have to add the 8006 port?
<popey> xalyy: no, I'd just change NAT to Bridged and restart the VM
<ali1234> clean it out?
<xalyy> Okay
<popey> still easier to use launcher
<ali1234> it really needs an easier way to remove every audio player ever
<popey> annoying i have to use it so much
<popey> yeah
<xalyy> Still not works
<ali1234> you know what's even easier? having a settings menu on the panel
<popey> i dont use most settings, only sound
<ali1234> and the other four ones :)
<popey> well, and bluetooth
<xalyy> I switched to nat
<xalyy> But still not shows the website
<popey> xalyy: bridged, not nat, and restart the vm
<xalyy> I mean to bridged
<xalyy> Sorry mistyped :D
<popey> right, and find out what IP the VM has once booted
<xalyy> https://192.168.1.101:8006/
<xalyy> but not worksss
<popey> point your browser at that http://I.p.address:8006/
<xalyy> like before
<xalyy> :S
<popey> did you restart the vm?
<xalyy> Why is it not working? :(
<popey> did you restart the vm?
<xalyy> Yes
<popey> inside the vm, if you 'telnet 192.168.1.101 8006' do you get a response?
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/18524a7c76cc6319d8c2fa86cab9837a.png
<xalyy> This is what i got
<awilkins> That looks promising
<xalyy> what is the next step? :D
<popey> http://imgur.com/0qvXxNd
<popey> thats what I do to test
<xalyy> ok
<xalyy> I not got what u got but ok :D
<popey> you got a response of some kind?
<xalyy> i got what i sent
<xalyy> U saw the pic?
<xalyy> Anyone?
<awilkins> xalyy, You got a response - it connected and dropped, rather than timing out
<awilkins> xalyy, That means there is a server running with that port open, rather than nothing being there
<MartijnVdS> wow.. cross-compiling a RPi kernel: 5 minutes. Compiling a kernel on the pi: 24 hours (including docs/manual/etc. packages)
<ali1234> the kernel is very easy to cross compile tho
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes, I know that now :)
<ali1234> pretty much nothing else is so easy
<MartijnVdS> because of library dependencies
<MartijnVdS> installing a cross-compiler is easy, but for most other things you need at least libc
<penguin42> with multiarch it's not as bad as it was - can get the libs in
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: even of incompatible archs?
<MartijnVdS>  192.168.3.249   .GPS.            1 u   34   64    3    0.581    0.203   0.014
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yes
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: installing libs normally isn't a problem (as long as their multiarch safe - not everything is)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Sometime need to have qemu installed incase the installation scripts need to run something
<xalyy_> Im back! Connection lost
<xalyy_> awilkins then what can I do to solve the problem
<xalyy_> Yo?
<xalyy_> Is somebody here or everybody sleepig again? :D
<MartijnVdS> !patience
<lubotu3> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com/ or http://ubuntuforums.org/ or http://askubuntu.com/
<popey> xalyy: we established your server is running
<xalyy_> I searched like 1 day without any luck, thats why I moved to here
<xalyy_> Thanks
<xalyy_> But if the server is running then why the web interface not loads?
<xalyy_> I don't know what I done wrong... I configured the network and this was a fresh install nothing modified
<xalyy_> Same problem with my dedicated not working there too
<AlanBell> xalyy_: you are running proxmox inside a vm?
<xalyy_> Yes
<xalyy_> First I trying to test it on my computer on virtualbox
<xalyy_> Then move it to dedicated
<xalyy_> But it's not even work in my PC
<AlanBell> well I would kind of expect some issues running it nested
<AlanBell> however I would expect the web UI to work
<AlanBell> can you get to the web UI from inside the guest itself?
<xalyy_> How??
<xalyy_> It don't have Desktop enviroment
<AlanBell> does the guest operating system have a GUI?
<AlanBell> ok, how about lynx or something
<xalyy_> Lynx?
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install lynx
<awilkins> Text-mode browser
<xalyy_> Okay
<AlanBell> then lynx localhost:8006 or whever it is
<xalyy_> Okay! I try it ty
<AlanBell> not expecting it to work well, but it should be enough to recognise whether it is working at all
<xalyy_> http://gyazo.com/4d0d231e12c41a44c661f415acd6d203.png :(
<popey> is that from inside the vm or outside?
<popey> oh, inside
<xalyy_> Inside
<AlanBell> ok, so forget about port mapping for a bit, until you get it serving locally
<awilkins> Try http://localhost:8006
<popey> its not ssl?
<AlanBell> that isn't right anyway, why is it trying to resolve the IP address?
<awilkins> Yes... maybe that also counts
<awilkins> so https://localhost:8006
<xalyy_> Tried localhost first then 192.168.
<popey> what ip does the vm have?
<popey> note that it will not be the same ip as your host
<xalyy_> Umm local ip?
<popey> ifconfig inside the vm will tell you
<popey> with bridged the vm gets an ip address like any other host
<popey> not the same as your host
<popey> so you may just be using the wrong ip
<xalyy_> How can I scroll up?
<xalyy_> on virtualbox :D
<AlanBell> ifconfig|less
<popey> page up?
<popey> ip addr | grep 192
<popey> probbaly 192.168.1.102 â»
<xalyy_> 127.0.0.1??
<popey> thats localhost on interface lo
<xalyy_> http://gyazo.com/3c26517b8021025feb075821731aef16.png
 * AlanBell doesn't think there is an active network card in the guest
<popey> what about interface eth0 ?
<MooDoo> directhex: but I want a valve code, my key is I AMDI RECT HEX ;)
<xalyy_> http://gyazo.com/a6259dd025f285d39c2d05ecc82bb6be.png
<popey> these cropped screenshots annoy me â»
<xalyy_> Sorry :D
<popey> so no ip on eth0
<popey> what OS is the guest?
<xalyy_> Proxmox 3.1 VE
<penguin42> no, in the VM, not on the host
<AlanBell> penguin42: that is running nested in the guest
<penguin42> ooohhhh - nested is fun
<xalyy_> what host?
<xalyy_> loll
<AlanBell> which is . . . going to hurt, but the web UI should work
<popey> wat
<xalyy_> waittt
<popey> this sounds odd, i dont understand what on earth is going on here
<xalyy_> guys u think i meant that there is a vm under my dedi?
<popey> this is a remote machine with virtualbox instaled on it?
<popey> and proxmox as the guest?
<penguin42> xalyy_: You need to go back a step; put a webpage together that shows what your setup is - completely so we can understand
<xalyy_> OK wait
<AlanBell> or local desktop with virtualbox with proxmox inside it?
<AlanBell> turtles all the way down
<popey> xalyy_: explain the setup
<AlanBell> the guest isn't getting an IP address, so you think that is set up with a bridged networking card, and your router is capable of assigning an extra DHCP address?
<xalyy_> Sec
<xalyy_> http://i.imgbox.com/DNNIsAtM.png
<awilkins> Uuuuurgh, host OS is Windows :P
<popey> that diagram doesn't help
<AlanBell> so, where is Ubuntu in all this?
<popey> explain it...
<popey> "i have a blah running blah and in that there's blah running blah"
 * awilkins bobs off to get some food
<xalyy_>   Proxmox uses integrated debain what are you guys talking? :D
<xalyy_> Both of the machines running on debian
<AlanBell> so you have a windows host with some debian derivative that isn't Ubuntu as a guest
<AlanBell> and another cloud server that isn't running Ubuntu
<penguin42> xalyy_: Sorry, you really need to draw it out - what exactly are you running
<xalyy_> I am running windows on the windows I am running a Virtualmachine under Oracle VM, my dedicated is located somewhere in the US my dedicated not belongs to my personal computer, my dedicated runs under debian
<xalyy_> good? :P
<AlanBell> so, why do you think we can help with that?
<xalyy_> Why not?
<penguin42> but how is your dedicated related to your virtualbox mess?
<xalyy_> I said first Im testing proxmox on the oracle vm then I want to move on my dedicated and fix everything like on my comp
 * SuperEngineer gets ready to type !-t-o-p-i-c  :D
<xalyy_> Because the two machine have the same problem
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well to be fair we rarely are on topic in here
<SuperEngineer> double lol
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Indeed being on topic might be off topic
<SuperEngineer> triple lol
<xalyy_> Now do you understand the setup? :D
<popey> I do. I think.
<penguin42> xalyy_: Look, you're just learning this stuff - you need to start simpler; and nesting VMs is not a good way to start learning
<popey> But I never use VirtualBox on Windows so can't help with that.
<AlanBell> xalyy_: so, for the virtualbox thing, you need to arrange for the guest to get an IP address, I have no idea if you are being blocked by a windows firewall setup or if the proxmox networking doesn't like the virtualbox card or something else
<popey> he's not nesting VMs penguin42, why do you think he is?
<AlanBell> popey: proxmox is virtualisation software
<popey> right, but he hasn't got that far yet
<xalyy_> What is nesting?
<AlanBell> with a web gui, which should run, even if it doesn't let you start VMs
<popey> exactly
<xalyy_> Yeah
<AlanBell> xalyy_: running VMs within VMs is nesting
<popey> sounds just like the vm doesn't have an ip yet
<penguin42> ah, so he's just trying to run the management stuff in the windows virtualbox?
<popey> that he can point to
<xalyy_> Ohh
<penguin42> popey: But where are the VMs?
<popey> they dont exist yet, clearly
<xalyy_> Yess
<popey> given he can't get to the admin console
<xalyy_> I am trying to setup proxmox on the oracle vm
<penguin42> popey: Ohhhh
 * popey sleeps
<penguin42> popey: Just looky you weren't pulled into a floridian sinkhole
<AlanBell> so, problem 1, your debian thing in virtualbox needs to be on your local network
<AlanBell> and it isn't right now
<xalyy_> Ok!
<xalyy_> How to fix it belly :D
<AlanBell> sudo dhclient might give you a clue
<xalyy_> Wait first how do I exit under |less
<xalyy_> ifconfig |less
<AlanBell> q
<xalyy_> Thanks
<AlanBell> I think perhaps you are running before walking here
 * penguin42 agrees
<xalyy_> Umm
<xalyy_> dhclient not done anything
<xalyy_> RTNETLINL asnwers: File exists!
<xalyy_> Lol you dont say
<MartijnVdS> that usually means a route already exists
<xalyy_> Ohh
<MartijnVdS> doesn't hurt
<xalyy_> Great :D Next command?
<xalyy_> WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
<xalyy_> GUYS what happened??
<xalyy_> Its just works now...
<xalyy_> But how is this possible? dhclient done the magic or which command?
<penguin42> AlanBell's telepathy probably
<xalyy_> :DD
<xalyy_> Seriously I have to know exactly, because I have to fix the dedicated too :P
<penguin42> xalyy_: If you manually ran dhclient that would do it, but that suggests that you just needed to configure proxmox to run dhclient
<xalyy_> So you mean proxmox is not starting dhclient properly?
<xalyy_> By the way what is dhclient
<penguin42> xalyy_: dhclient is the thing that sends and receives dhcp requests on the network;
<penguin42> xalyy_: You need to go and learn some basic networking/linux admin stuff I think before trying to debug this much!
<xalyy_> But I doesn't even know why I have to debug, I mean I watched 5 video tutroials where the guys installs the proxmox on a VM or VPS or Dedicated but they got it working right away after installed
<AlanBell> the dedicated serer has got an IP address, or you wouldn't be connecting to it
<xalyy_> I can connect to the dedicated server without the dedicated connecting to the internet :D
<AlanBell> ok, serial port debugging or is it really virtualised?
<xalyy_> Umm?
<AlanBell> huh, that virtual KVM window . . .
<xalyy_> Yes
<xalyy_> Drac
<AlanBell> your dedi is running under a KVM host?
<xalyy_> Running under Drac
<xalyy_> I heard its a small computer on the dedi
<xalyy_> It has other ip
<xalyy_> Then the dedi
<AlanBell>  /o\
<xalyy_> Is it a bell? :D
<xalyy_> On the dedicated dhclient did not worked still not loads the :8006 website gui I think I have to reinstall everything...
<xalyy_> What you say?
<xalyy_> Do I reiinstall proxmox os completly?
<AlanBell> I have no further opinion on the matter :)
<xalyy_> Ok I reinstall it, I have time :D
<xalyy_> Do you have idea why the VM is so slow? I mean the virtual media session
<xalyy_> It uploading really slow
<DJones> Can you copy a virtualbox machine from one computer to another, or do configuration options get messed up when you do
<AlanBell> DJones: yes, and maybe
<AlanBell> but it is fixable
<xalyy_> Problem is
<AlanBell> or you copy the config options too
<xalyy_> Dedicated does not have DHCP so I have to manually config the network files... :S
<xalyy_> So it would be double messy
<xalyy_> Can hostname be anything on the dedicated?
<xalyy_> Or does it counts?
<DJones> AlanBell: Thanks, I've got two Windows installs and was planning on copying both folders including all files & subdirectories, its got .vbox & .vdi file, along with a Logs folder
<shauno> xalyy_: you really need to ask your host what your network settings should be.  we simply can't guess them
<DJones> I'm expecting some issues because they're both Windows installs, XP & Win 7
<AlanBell> DJones: look in .virtualbox too
<AlanBell> .Virtualbox even
<AlanBell> gah ~/.VirtualBox
<DJones> AlanBell: Thanks for heads up
<AlanBell> VirtualBox.xml in there is the config settings mostly
<xalyy_> shauno: but is there a way to guess my dedicated hostname from the dedicated ip or something?
<AlanBell> xalyy_: really, you need to ask your ISP about this, you are not running Ubuntu and we are not your ISP :)
<xalyy_> What?
<xalyy_> My dedicated not running ubuntu?
<shauno> I can't change my answer just because it's not the one you wanted, I'm afraid
<xalyy_> What are you talking about :D
<xalyy_> I mean debian is not similiar to ubuntu?
<AlanBell> it is not Ubuntu, no
<xalyy_> Thanks for the help guys for all this :D
<xalyy_> Something not good... Cmon.. I can't beleive this, I rebooted the oracle vm and now the web ui not working again
<xalyy_> Typed dhclient several times but not helps
<xalyy_> what is this?!
<the_rocker> hi guys
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> small question : I have a 24 inch imac with a Core2Duo processor
<knightwise> what version of Ubuntu do i choose : The PC , the 64bit PC or the 64bit MAC version ?
<BigRedS> I'd go with 64bit mac
<knightwise> BigRedS: ok Thats the one i'm downloading.
<knightwise> funny that there is no 64bit MAC version of Xubuntu to download
<knightwise> I'll just punch XFCE on there after install i guess
<knightwise> I was thinking about putting elementary on there (because it looks realy good) but ... i wasn't sure what version of 12.04 its based on
<knightwise> the 64 bit or the MAC64 bit
<xalyy_> How can I check the network is working fine to stream the proxmox web gui? On dedicated server
<BigRedS> xalyy_ what do you mean? Where is the web gui supposed to be?
<BigRedS> you may have more luck in a more proxmox-focussed channel
<xalyy_> mydedicatedip:8006
<BigRedS> okay, so is it firewalled off?
<BigRedS> can you connect to that at all?
<BigRedS> you say you want to " check the network is working fine"; what makes you think it isn't?
<xalyy_> Idk
<xalyy_> On my comp it working fine on my oracle vm
<xalyy_> But the dedi's proxmox gui not workig
<AlanBell> xalyy_: can you at least ping it?
<xalyy_> Yes lol
<xalyy_> You meant my Dedis ip?
<AlanBell> so you don't have a network problem
<xalyy_> Yes I can ping my dedi's ip
<xalyy_> from my comp
<AlanBell> ok, but you are getting no response from the web server port?
<AlanBell> can the server connect to itself on that port?
<AlanBell> so lynx localhost:8006
<xalyy_> Type that command on my dedi?
<AlanBell> yeah, is it serving anything for you to connect to?
<xalyy_> Alert!
<xalyy_> Unexpected network read error
<AlanBell> try lynx localhost:1234
<AlanBell> just to compare error messages
<AlanBell> Alert!: Unable to connect to remote host. would be the error I would expect
<AlanBell> however you are not running Ubuntu so it might be different (which is why you should be going to an appropriate place for proxmox support)
<xalyy_> Alert!: Unable to connect to remote host.
<AlanBell> ok, so that is the error message when connecting to a port with nothing happening on it
<AlanBell> so the thing you are expecting to be running on 8006 isn't, so you need to go solve that problem
<xalyy_> How? :D
<BigRedS> that depends on what it is that should be running there and what hte OS is
<xalyy_> Its debian
<xalyy_> and there should be running proxmox i said :P
<BigRedS> okay, like I said earlier I think this would be quicker if you find someone who knows proxmox
<BigRedS> but    netstat -ntlp | grep 8006   should tell you if anything is bound to that port
<xalyy_> It says listen
<xalyy_> But who and where should I find someone
<BigRedS> not sure; does proxmox have an irc channel?
<daftykins> wow, this topic still? >_<
<daftykins> xalyy_: sudo apt-get install pastebinit && netstat -tuln | pastebinit
<xalyy_> Whats daT?
<daftykins> a program to pastebin the output of that command so we can see
<knightwise> If you have any questions regarding proxmox you might want to ask Lord Drachenblut for advice
<xalyy_> Is he here?
<daftykins> run what i said
<andylockran> heya guys
<daftykins> hi sir
<mapps> hey daftykins
<mapps> andatche,
<mapps> andylockran,
<daftykins> \o
<mapps> sup mate
<daftykins> not bad here ty, just doing chores and what not today
<daftykins> tried looking at doing my tax return online, so a seriously exciting sunday!
<daftykins> why do tax websites assume you know their acronyms O_O
<daftykins> "ETI"
<penguin42> ETI?
<DJones> popey: Just as a heads up, Bitfolk's minecraft server looks to be down, I'm not in their minecraft channel to highlight you or grifferz there
<MartijnVdS> well then: https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00338.html
<shauno> yay?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I wonder how Ubuntu is going to handle that.. they started/sponsor upstart
<shauno> oh I'm not thinking that far ahead.  I'm just hoping it means a ceasation to hostilities.  peace to all man and stuff like that
<MartijnVdS> nah, because "we're going for systemd" was clear
<MartijnVdS> that was always going to be the outcome of that vote
<MartijnVdS> what I want to see is the other points: will maintainers be required to accept patches to make software work with other init systems or not?
<popey> DJones: ta
<directhex> upstart is dead now.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: well, it will be in the LTS for another few years
<MartijnVdS> and it's in ChromeOS, I think?
<directhex> the init system that only ubuntu uses. every upstream will be using systemd dependencies (gnome does already, kde does for wayland & will for x.org soon, xfce will soon). canonical can spend money on continuing to duplicate systemd functionality in upstart, or spend less just binning it & using systemd
<MartijnVdS> directhex: yes, but my point is that it's too late for 14.04
<directhex> or say "we don't care" and be the distro without kde, gnome or xfce
<MartijnVdS> 14.10, sure
<directhex> MartijnVdS, oh, sure, 14.04 will be upstart
<directhex> okay, upstart is bleeding out, but still breathing
<MartijnVdS> I just wished the systemd supporters didn't sound so much like a cult
<MartijnVdS> "IT'S BETTER BECAUSE IT IS"
<popey> only ubuntu.. and every derivative
<daftykins> lmao
<popey> which probably (speculating) accounts for more installs of upstart than all total installs of systemd.. probably
<ali1234> systemd is technically massively better than upstart
<popey> i don't doubt that â»
<ali1234> the only reason people don't like systemd is because of lennart
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes, except nobody seems to be able to explain how
<directhex> popey, valve using sysvinit will eclipse both :D
<popey> upstart will live on in 14.04 for years
<ali1234> otoh the only reason people don't like upstart is because of canonical
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: also Lennart, ture.
<popey> directhex: how many steamos installs?
<directhex> popey, give it a few months...
<ali1234> really either one of them is perfectly able to do what debian requires
<popey> given how many chrome laptops seem to have been sold, they're doing pretty well
<popey> i tire of the "only ubuntu" comment, given how many servers and clients that amounts to
<popey> if it dies, it dies, so be it
<ali1234> it amounts to diddly squat compared to windows
<popey> indeed
<ali1234> if install base was the only important thing, we shouldn't be using linux at all
<directhex> don't forget webos! all those pre's!
<popey> jolla is systemd isnt it?
<ali1234> of course it is
<ali1234> it's based on meego
<popey> ah yes
<directhex> ubuntu doesn't exist in a vacuum. as long as they use components from gnome, kde, xfce, they can either continue to emulate systemd or move to systemd - or, as is the case currently, fix with antique versions of the underlying bits
<popey> well we're not moving to systemd till at least 14.10
<popey> be surprised if we did even then
<ali1234> incidentally, xfce will not require systemd any time soon
<popey> quite fancy a steamos box under the telly
<popey> also fancy a better telly
<ali1234> unlike debian, xfce actually has a significant install base on bsd
<ali1234> well ok, it's probably smaller than debian's, but as a percentage of total user base it's bigger
<ali1234> is it just me or is scan's today only page now basically a list of everything they sell?
<penguin42> ali1234: It's not quite that big for me
<mapps> yo
<foobarry> what's the best app for ripping mp3?
<foobarry> clementine isn't working with audio cd's
<foobarry> looks like a kde/phonon issue
<popey> AlanBell: we need to organise a release party!
<AlanBell> yes!
<AlanBell> April 17th is the release date
<popey> oof, really?
<popey> !trusty
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 14.04 (Trusty Tahr) will be the 20th release of Ubuntu.  See the announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1295 for more info. support in #ubuntu+1
<popey> I thought it was 24th
<popey> so it is
<AlanBell> next to good friday
<shauno> I'm kinda curous what the upgrade from lucid will be like
<daftykins> heh i plan to just clean install my servers
<shauno> I kinda do both
<shauno> I also completely over-use the word 'kinda'.  but still
<shauno> bitfolk have a fantastic policy where they'll provide you with a second VM for a transition period of .. I think 2 weeks?
<shauno> I try not to abuse this (I mean, I'm still on lucid), but usually I'll do this, and then try to migrate the original just to see how much it hurts
<BigRedS> I've generally found that migrating to a new install is more faff than dist-upgrading in-place3
<BigRedS> though I do tend to make a bit of a mess, easiest to just let the computer deal with noticing what's installed and where
<shauno> I like the clean starts.  I tend to accumulate cruft
<BigRedS> yeah, I like to keep that cruft :)
<BigRedS> mostly I'll go through stuff pre-upgrade and remove obviously-uneccesary things
<daftykins> more faff perhaps, but less likely to go wonky? :>
<BigRedS> but otherwise there's just this long period of remembering that thing that I used to have running and what was it that made that work again?
<daftykins> that's why i take notes like an engineer
<shauno> I have a fairly short list of expectations for my VM.  narrowing it back down to those every upgrade tends to be quite productive
<BigRedS> daftykins that sounds too much like work
<daftykins> hahaha
<shauno> well, I keep my vps for a narrow task set.  so it's nowhere near as painful as it sounds
<popey> shauno: try it? â»
<daftykins> wee cat vid: https://www.dropbox.com/s/27ibqn579402aai/VID_20140209_214132.mp4
<popey> i have a lucid vps, might skip precise on that and go direct to trusty
<shauno> oh I'll try it.  but I'll ping andy to brew me a new VM first :)
<shauno> my vps is my mail & dns servers.  curiousity is always a plan B
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i continue to be under the impression that ones own email running is a pain
<shauno> oh it is
<shauno> it totally $(inappropriate metaphor)'s the big one
<shauno> but the alternatives are all pretty dire
<daftykins> i'm happy to live on gmail, if i setup a company and have a domain for it i might just fiddle with 'send as' from that
<daftykins> although Google Apps for 1 user @ Â£33/yr would be tempting
<popey> https://github.com/mbebenita/Broadway golly
<shauno> well, that's a large part of the problem.  gmail is basically the alternative at this point.  and I trust them less and less every day
<daftykins> they are certainly growing in evil it would seem
<shauno> that, and for me, it's a useful skillset to keeep warm
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> very true
<shauno> we have a lot of legacy devices that still use smtp for transmission (everything from the last 15 years uses https)
<shauno> so being able to 'speak' smtp comes in way too useful, far too often
<daftykins> shauno: the raw command style? :D
<shauno> in a lot of cases, yes :(  "send me a packet trace" is my default "if I couldn't guess in 5 minutes"
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-02
<diddledan> daftykins, I agree, I'm not dead yet so they're ok
<diddledan> cremepocalypse averted
<diddledan> or should that be eggmageddon?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i ought to introduce you to a pun master from another chan
<zmoylan-pi> pi 2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/02/02/raspberry_pi_model_2/
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: you'll have to upgrade
<daftykins> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> not an upgrade, more start a herd
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> no real talk of graphics improvement 0o
<zmoylan-pi> no problem for me on that account
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> gonna try and quit smoking and drinking this month
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> gl!
<mapps> unlikely il manage;p
<mapps> been doing it for too long
<daftykins> well you probably can't go cold turkey on either
<mapps> my dad said he hates me coming home as i do the same there
<mapps> yea
<mapps> im the embarassment of the street :)
<mapps> million pound houses and then idiot mapps that cant stop drinking!
<zmoylan-pi> won't doing both at same time be extra hard?
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> mapps: you from a fancy area 0o
<mapps> hence il proably fail
<mapps> daftykins Knighstbridge
<zmoylan-pi> could try switching to e-cigarette.  seems to work for quite a few
<mapps> sister lives in Surrey
<daftykins> sorry, don't really know England to know the name
<mapps> hm
<mapps> knightsbridge is ctl london
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: yeah i think i mentioned that once, didn't think mapps was a fan
<mapps> surrey south east
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> what does a mill buy? :)
<daftykins> boss had a flat in Chelsea at one point
<mapps> a one bed flat
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> figures :>
<mapps> dad lived there for years
<mapps> he's 66 remember
<zmoylan-pi> but it had enough room to swing a cat hopefully
<mapps> he lives in a hm 3 bed place
<mapps> 3 bed is stretching it;p
<mapps> my house in stoke is bigger than my dads place
<mapps> but because of postcodes its worth like 1/20:)
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> bed for me
<daftykins> nn gents \o have a good week
<mapps> nn
<zmoylan-pi> cya o/
<diddledan> the raspi2 has an armv7 cortex a7 core - does that mean it'll run ubuntu OTB?
<zmoylan-pi> time will tell, a lot of questions will be asked AND answered today
<diddledan> also daftykins appears correct in that they don't actually say what the new chip has in terms of gfx - they say extensively what the old one had
<mapps> hm
<diddledan> from the article: The BCM2835, as used in previous Pis, is a Broadcom GPU â the VideoCore IV â with a single 700MHz 32-bit ARM1176JZF-S application core glued in to run software.
<diddledan> I would hope that either the chip has the same api as the previous or that broadcom also do a spec dump for opensource driver programmers to be able to create free/libre drivers for it like they're working on for the original
<ali1234> officially the raspberry pi only has opengl
<diddledan> ali1234, you still need to marshall opengl into the registers tho
<ali1234> it is highly likely the new chip is exactly the same as the old one, but with 4 arm cores instead of 1
<diddledan> ali1234, and that's what the driver is for
<ali1234> the driver is nearly completely undocumented
<ali1234> there is a source code dump from another videocore chip, but not the one used in the pi
<diddledan> hence why people are working on it
<ali1234> it's similar enough that some people kind of got it working
<ali1234> anyway, given they only bumped one digit, i can pretty much guarantee this is what they've done
<diddledan> they say in the article that the new soc is "very very similar" so I'm guessing the only change is going from single core to quad core arm and the doubling of the PoP ram
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> and likely doubling the power consumption as well
<ali1234> most people try to use the raspberry pi as a small computer or media player
<ali1234> it's really not powerful enough for that
<ali1234> so this will help them
<ali1234> for embedded, it will just burn even more power
<diddledan> they do say "armv7 and cortex-a7" tho, which would suggest the arm has a different arch to the previous chip
<diddledan> obv backwards compatible but potentially able to run stock ubuntu arm
<ali1234> yes it is
<ali1234> but again, that is only really interesting to people who want to try to use it as a computer
<ali1234> and it still isn't really powerful enough for that
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> moo
<MooDoo> anyone know of anyone in nottingham looking for an IT position?
<MooDoo> well not necassarily just nottingham
 * diddledan heads off to find chocolate before starting to work.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnV1S> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<zmoylan-pi> how's the lungs czajkowski?
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: hanging in
<czajkowski> getting better thanks
<zmoylan-pi> watch fosdem on streaming?
<diddledan> allo everyone who said morning while i wasn't watching :-p
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> Fosdem was great .. but snowy
<knightwise> too bad I didn't get a chance to meet Popey or any of the other ubuntu-uk rockstars :(
<knightwise> Did go to the HPR BOF Meetup
<diddledan> so raspi say that windows10 will run on the 2B
<diddledan> so do ms: http://dev.windows.com/en-us/featured/raspberrypi2support
<MartijnVdS> is it April yet?
<zmoylan-pi> for amusing values of /run/ :-)
<awilkins> Windows 10 for RaspPi2 for FREE
<awilkins> ROLL YOUR SLEEVES UP GUYS. FIRST ONE'S FREE.
<diddledan> awilkins, yes
<awilkins> Wonder if you can get a decent high-res head-up display goggle set
<zmoylan-pi> when the monthly rental of windows 10 costs more than the computer...
<awilkins> That plus a Pi2 plus a reasonably large battery and a USB KB/Mouse
<awilkins> CYBERDECK
<zmoylan-pi> with a 7" screen
<knightwise> hmmm
<knightwise> does anybody know a graphical image writer for Ubuntu ?
<knightwise> i need to convert my retropi sd card back to a backup .img
<knightwise> and dd is going to be a pain in the ass since i'm doing this on my chromebook and I have a lot of partitions mounted
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy World Wetlands Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> no no happy raspberry pi 2 day jamestait :-)
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, yes, I got a mail from pimoroni about it this morning. :)
<JamesTait> Ubuntu on the raspi 2?
<MartijnVdS> that should work
<awilkins> Is the new one ARM7?
<diddledan> awilkins, yes
<awilkins> Then it should work AFAIK
<awilkins> Problem with the Pi1 was that it was ARM6
<zmoylan-pi> wonder if dropbox will get around to sorting a client for new pi
<davmor2> JamesTait: oh you must take a trip to slimbridge
<davmor2> JamesTait: http://www.wwt.org.uk/wetland-centres/slimbridge/
<bashrc> I wonder if the new Pi can have ordinary Debian installed
<JamesTait> awilkins, that was my first thought, too. :)
<JamesTait> That looks nice, davmor2.
<davmor2> JamesTait: would be a nice day out for you and your family possibly when it is a bit warmer :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, added to the school holiday list. ;)
<awilkins> Already a Snappy Ubuntu Core image for RasPi2 up
<knightwise> hmmm :) Im happy I waited for this new model
<cocoa117> is there a way to create vlan on ethernet card without installing vlan package?
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: yes, using the "ip" tool
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/VLAN#Create_the_VLAN_device shows how
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> \o
<ChunkzZ> I probably shouldn't ask here but has anyone quit smoking?
<bigcalm> p/
<bigcalm> o/ even
<MartijnVdS> q/
<ChunkzZ> :/
<bigcalm> Quit cold turkey. Ate a lot of chocolate things. Gave my parents hell for 3 weeks
<MartijnVdS> quit what?
<bigcalm> <ChunkzZ> I probably shouldn't ask here but has anyone quit smoking?
<ChunkzZ> bigcalm, I tried that and lasted 3 days lol
<MartijnVdS> I just never started in the first place
<bigcalm> I was off work with a back injury for 20 months. Bored and wanted something to do
<ChunkzZ> you smoke now bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> Nope, quit 26th August 2002
<bigcalm> Oh, I'm late
<knightwise> man its quiet here
<knightwise> everyone still drunk from Fossdem ?
<bashrc> I guess
<knightwise> I went and had a peek yesterday morning
<s3_virge> hi
<s3_virge> someone can help me to change resolution on vesa mode?
<davmor2> knightwise: still no popey won't be loud again properly till tomorrow
<knightwise> davmor2: I think you might be right.
 * knightwise is miffed .. misplaced my 64 gig SD card :(
<davmor2> knightwise: did you misplace it into an envelope and send it to me?
<awilkins> ctrl-alt-del logout - is there actually a way to abort it
<awilkins> And un-configure that shortcut too
<awilkins> I have a small keyboard I use for webconferences because my Model M is too loud...
<awilkins> But ctrl-alt-del is painfully close to ctrl-alt-left on it
<awilkins> So when I shift workspaces I sometimes hit logout
<awilkins> Now I have a "log out" prompt obscuring my view in a webconf
<awilkins> Is there a way to cancel the logout? Clicking the "close" box on the logout dialog isn't doing anything
<awilkins> None of the other buttons on the dialog are working either
<awilkins> Arrgh
<cocoa117> how do  you create /etc/network/interfaces so ubuntu 14.04 can do vlan on device name p2p1 for example
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: just add an interface named "p2p1.2" for VLAN 2
<moreati> awilkins: the ESC key? Perhaps twice
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: and configure it as normal
<MartijnVdS> (or .200 for VLAN 200 etc)
<awilkins> moreati, Naah, that's not doing it
<awilkins> moreati, not sure if I pushed ctrl-alt-del twice
<moreati> awilkins: are you sure the dialog has keyboard focus?
<awilkins> moreati, It doesn't have a window in the task switcher
<awilkins> Even if I minimise all the other windows and click on it it doesn't respond
<moreati> awilkins: then I'm out of ideas
<awilkins> Think it's a Unity overlay anyway
<awilkins> Has that "polarised filter" effect on the rest of the desktop
<knightwise> davmor2: I wish i did
<awilkins> Doing unity --replace a couple of times seems to have rectified matters
<awilkins> .. and smushed all my windows into one workspace, but that's not so bad
<awilkins> DIdn't interrupt my webconference
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, Do i need to install vlan package?
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: probably
 * awilkins disables ctrl-alt-del
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: because that contains the /etc/network/interfaces scripts
<MartijnVdS> cocoa117: (that handle vlans)
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, that explains it. the ifup keep saying it don't undertand p2p1.2, unknown interface
<shauno> hm.  ordered a new pi.  I'm curious :)
<awilkins> Pi2 is popular
<awilkins> You order it from RS?
<shauno> from 'the pi hut' because farnell wasn't responding
<awilkins> Bums, RS sold out of the attractive black case I had in my shopping basket
<awilkins> What's the shipping at Pi Hut?
<shauno> 2 quid to ireland, dunno what it's like within the uk
<shauno> (I assume less  heh)
<awilkins> RS has a list price of Â£22.85 for a Pi2 but implies that their free shipping is only available to business customers
<awilkins> Aha, Â£4.95 "handling fee" on orders they suspect of being FOR YOUR PERSONAL USE, SCUM#
<awilkins> HOW DARE YOU BUY STUFF FROM US FOR HOBBY REASONS
<shauno> haven't bothered with a case though.  nothing else on my desk still has it's clothes on, so going out of my way to pretend I'll house it seems silly
<awilkins> YOUR MONEY IS FULL OF ICKY PERSONAL TAINT
<awilkins> My other Pi is currently just lying in a tangle of wires next to my router
<shauno> actually, I like, my monitor still has its pants on.  because it's a crt, and they scare me
<shauno> er, *lie
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> CRTs contain the spirit of sudden death
<awilkins> Poke the wrong bit and feel his wrath. Briefly. Before you die.
<ali1234> awilkins: RS will ship to anyone as long as you spend enough
<ali1234> (for free)
<ali1234> i think the limit is Â£30
<awilkins> ali1234, Yeah, they say free shipping on orders over Â£20 (for BUSINESS customers)
<shauno> exactly.  and it's a dell, so it does actually want to kill you.  means *and* motive.
<awilkins> Also that they are a business-to-business supplier
<awilkins> "RS is a business-to-business supplier. The RS website is intended for use by business customers and not by consumers or private individuals. Notwithstanding the foregoing, nothing in these terms and conditions of sale shall affect the statutory rights of a Customer who deals as a consumer. "
<shauno> this is why I like farnell.  they treat my money like money  lol
<awilkins> I remember poring over the RS catalogue when I was a kid and lusting after things, and realizing that they sell certain things WAY above the right price
<ali1234> it's not very hard to convince them you are a business
<shauno> (and their free next-day isn't kidding.  they don't act like Ireland's somewhere left of ghana)
<ali1234> farnell are better but they don't have as much range
<shauno> I'll take "less things that they want to sell me" over "more things that they don't want to sell me"
<vnc_turps> well, depends on the part of ireland your in...
<awilkins> Farnell : awaiting delivery
<shauno> I'm in the good part :)  where "swimmers attacked by dolphins" is a headline news
<shauno> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29460544
<shauno> none of that scary, miserable news the north puts up with
<awilkins> RS seem to have underordered the cheaper cases for Pi B+
<awilkins> Seems a foolish thing on Pi2 day
<vnc_turps> won't the 2 fit in b+ case?
<awilkins> Yes
<ali1234> it depends on the case actually
<awilkins> Same form factor / port placement
<shauno> I'm just curious to see what it'll do for retropie.  it might actually make ps1 playable
<shauno> although if it can run opencpn without crying, I know a few people who'll be very happy
<ali1234> shauno: it might just about do PS1
<shauno> I've a few games that are surprisingly close on the stock B.  so I'm optimistic
<awilkins> Â£2 shipping for Pi Hut / UK
<awilkins> And much higher prices (20% higher... ohwait, are RS prices exVAT)
<awilkins> And they have this reallly prrrrty case http://thepihut.com/products/flirc-raspberry-pi-b-case
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> that's super ugly
<awilkins> Aha
<awilkins> RS prices are exVAT
<awilkins> so the price is really Â£27.42
<awilkins> Not Â£22.85
 * awilkins shakes fist at their "business to business" face
<ali1234> http://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-2-with-pibow
<vnc_turps> set up a corporation with your cat as ceo before making an order...
<awilkins> All that paperwork for less than a fiver... think I'll pass :-)
<awilkins> The PiBow cases are cool
<awilkins> But a bit hobby
<vnc_turps> it'll be a tortoiseshell company... :-)
<awilkins> A Manx corporation might have better tax advantages
<ali1234> http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/100/097/business-cat-19.jpg
<awilkins> http://www.businesscat.happyjar.com/comic/photocopier/
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> icelands last mcdonalds shut down the papers say...cant imagine that ever happening here
<zmoylan-pi> all the fat people migrating south could tip the country over... :-P
<davmor2> mapps: it's the cost of getting stuff there made them the world most expensive burgers
<DJones> mapps: We can only hope and pray
<DJones> The sawmills would go out of business if they shut down
<popey> \o/ home
<DJones> popey: I'll assume that was an appropiate answer in -irc
<DJones> Welcome back btw
<popey> ta
<popey> \o/ raspberry pi 2 ordered
<Azelphur> Anyone handy with debugging optimus? getting primus: fatal: Bumblebee daemon reported: error: Could not load GPU driver
<ali1234> well this is annoying
<ali1234> printer prints the first 100 pages of my document
<ali1234> then overheats and starts printing one page every 5 minutes
<ali1234> and i have another 100 pages to print
<davmor2> popey: you snappy whore you ;)
<davmor2> ali1234: that's what a library is for :)
<popey> davmor2: wat
<davmor2> popey: you only want to run snappy on your pi2
<popey> thats one thing i wanna do
<ali1234> if you put snappy on pi2, can you turn it into a "normal" apt-get system, like you can on the phone?
<ali1234> someone asked me this today, and i didn't know the answer
<popey> no
<popey> i dont think snappy builds are the same as the phone builds
<ali1234> ... why not?
<davmor2> ali1234: no snappy use snaps
<popey> i dont think it has debs
<popey> at all
<ali1234> well, that's stupid
<ali1234> why duplicate all that work?
<popey> to be fair i haven't ripped apart a snappy image yet
<popey> so i may be wrong
<popey> you'd have to ask in #snappy I think :)
<ali1234> i sent em to #ubuntu-arm
<ali1234> not sure if that's still a thing or not
<popey> oh, I'm wrong, i see /var/lib/dpkg inside it.
<popey> just double clicked the ubuntu-core.img and it mounted in nautilus
<davmor2> popey, ali1234: snaps and clicks use deb format for installs but there is no apt-get on snappy and I don't think there is a snappy install apt-get either. So dpkg might work but you would have to hack it to make the system read write then install apt-get then install the package you wanted.  However you could just use ubuntu-core rather than snappy
<davmor2> that would then give you a deb system I believe
<ali1234> davmor2: the question is specifically in reference to the pi2 for which there is only a snappy image currently, afaik
<davmor2> ali1234: indeed, and snappy has no apt-get and the system is read only.  So you can only install into containers effectively.
<ali1234> well the issue is that nearly everyone who uses a raspberry pi is trying to use it as a cheap ass computer
<ali1234> they are all asking "wtf is snappy, i just want apt-get"
<davmor2> ali1234: best place to discuss it is #snappy
<ali1234> the perception seems to be that snappy is like raspbian with a proprietary app store and no ability to install debs, and no reason to exist
<shauno> I don't think it's actually a Snappy issue.  it's more that it's the only ubuntu download offered on rpi's site, and with no explanation that 'snappy' in 'snappy ubuntu core' isn't just an adjective
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> today in #raspberrypi i saw more hate for canonical than microsoft
<shauno> that'll likely change once msft actually delivers something ;)
<shauno> msft are describing their release as "Windows Developer Program for IoT".  which sounds like it's geared to present exactly the same "expected ubuntu, got snappy" issue
<shauno> (where they're treating the pi as a target to deploy to, not a desktop to run on)
<ali1234> to be fair, it's not their fault that people are using the thing wrong
<ali1234> the pi 2 will make a rubbish desktop just like the old one did
<ali1234> but that's all anyone does with it because ... derp
<ali1234> the funny thing is that snappy would be perfect for my application, but my application uses the A+ because it's on batteries, so i can't use snappy
<ali1234> switching to the pi 2 would quarter my battery life
<shauno> I'm curious to see how that goes too.  I've read that the Pi2 uses 'more', but no numbers
<directhex> http://blog.barisione.org/2015-02/webkit-rpi2/
<davmor2> night all
<popey> directhex: is there some public steam info thing which shows which games have clocked up more hours, and who clocked up the most?
<directhex> i don't think so. not cumulatively. someone did statistical sampling of user profiles
<ali1234> popey: that website that tells you how long it will take to finish all your games
<ali1234> it uses the average time people played each game
<popey> ah
<ali1234> so if you go to the data source and then also get sales numbers and then multiply
<ali1234> that should give you a ballpark?
<popey> never ceases to amaze me what people will back https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/217809965/sleev-protect-your-wires-from-damage
<ali1234> heat shrink tubing?
<ali1234> lolololololol
<ali1234> LOL
<ali1234> hahaha
<ali1234> why didn't i think of this
<ali1234> $5 for 10cm of heat shrink tubing
<ali1234> which costs $1 per m
 * zmoylan-pi has urge to do a kickstarter for red bubblewrap with tension sheet written on it... :-D
<shauno> hm, see, that's what I suspected - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8983801   "Windows 10 on Pi 2 will be an IoT platform, not a desktop OS. You'll develop your app in Visual Studio on a Windows PC and deploy it to the Pi.
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, couldn't see a pi 2 doing anything than barely displaying desktop and running full pelt just to do that
<zmoylan-pi> windows is a resource hog, always has been
<zmoylan-pi> it'd be interesting if you could make the one app deployed chrome or some other extension capable browser
<gioans> #ubuntu-uk
<gioans> hello
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-03
<diddledan> I just looked out the window - snow has landed
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> diddledan: heh, just bought Battlefield 4 on the xbone as my mates want to get it
<daftykins> 61.4GB XD
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> I always read xbone as "x-bone" :-p
<daftykins> is that because it seems like a content type from your web shenanigans?
<diddledan> nah, it's because I'm an ass :-p
<daftykins> a donkey?! then you can be an honourary Guern!
<mapps> gah
<mapps> had to leave casino early
<daftykins> :o
<mapps> someone stole my damn drink
<mapps> bar closed
<mapps> i spoke to manager and got a useless voucher for tomorrow
<daftykins> but you quit!
<mapps> nah
<daftykins> :o
<mapps> i pretend id like to
<mapps> but i never will really
<mapps> just like i quit smoking for a while
<mapps> never lasts long
<daftykins> :(
<mapps> its life
<mapps> we're all playing the time game
<mapps> just im speeding it up quite a lot heh
<mapps> judge judy is so good
<mapps> love the show so much
<shauno> mapps: that's a really, really bad sign
<daftykins> can't stand such tosh myself :)
<mapps> pff
<daftykins> sensationalist fakery poop \o/
<mapps> ;[[[
<shauno> I guess you need something to fill the void left by Springer?
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> did he retire?
<mapps> didnt know
<mapps> i just like jj:)
<mapps> i dont watch any other reality garbage
<daftykins> tell you what
<mapps> Mis gatos beben la leche
<mapps> :D
<mapps> duolingo teaching me
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> just imagine you got wrapped up in some genuine misunderstanding, then got thrown in front of Judge Judy
<daftykins> now imagine how fun it must be ;)
<mapps> its so good..i use it on my phone (android) ..on my ipad and on the web
<mapps> that wouldn't be fun daftykins
<mapps> ;D
<daftykins> i think that's my problem watching stuff like that, too cringeworthy for me
<daftykins> i can't watch alleged comedies like Peep Show for that reason
<mapps> i like peep show
<mapps> you ever watchged it?
<daftykins> yeah a friend was obsessed
<daftykins> i can't stand it
<mapps> i quite like it
<mapps> it is overrated tho
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Eileen Collins Day! :-D
 * awilkins would rather have Collins day, the day when you just sit in bed and drink a Tom Collins each hour.
<davmor2> JamesTait: Space the front ear, why do they want ears on the front when we know the sides are better?
<davmor2> s/space the/space the final
<JamesTait> davmor2, it's not a new concept - Davey Crockett was the king of the wild front ear.
<davmor2> well wouldn't you be wild if someone cut you off and slapped on the front where you don't belong?
<JamesTait> I expect so.
<davmor2> JamesTait: and then heading into space to find the final one seems like a waste of money to me ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, well maybe it's because they've had no luck finding it down here on Earth.
<zmoylan-pi> especially when in space no one can hear you rub salt into the wound... :-)
<popey> nice https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list
<ali1234> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> you'd have thought google would be better at stopping that
<diddledan> popey, I can't believe that's real when google does botblocking elsewhere such as sign-in attempts
<diddledan> I'd hate to have to clean that lot up
<zmoylan-pi> nuke it from orbit, only way to be sure :-)
<popey> they're still coming in
<diddledan> it starts at number 13815 (~7 pages)
<diddledan> sorry 130815
<awilkins> It's precisely this sort of thing that makes me sad about capitalism
<awilkins> In a world where people didn't have to scrape for a living, this sort of thing would be beneath people
<zmoylan-pi> no it wouldn't, there'd always be some greedy bugger trying to make money by spamming everyone and everything
<awilkins> Viva la revolution robotique! Robot socialism for all!
<awilkins> Mmn, but not being paid to do it
<awilkins> Well, fewer people
<awilkins> Bah
<awilkins> Stupid statistics and enormous population numbers
<zmoylan-pi> they'd do not for the money but to gain followers/karma/shiny pebbles.
<awilkins> Interesting that they are targetting an Indian market
<awilkins> +91 phone numbers and everything
<awilkins> Wouldn't have thought it was particularly rich pickings
<zmoylan-pi> or bored engineers who wonder what indian services sound like...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, is prostitution a "service industry" then?
<awilkins> Or does it count as entertainment
<diddledan> lol
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<awilkins> Question : I have a Windows in a VirtualBox instance
<awilkins> If I connect the host machine to a VPN, I get network packets from the VM routed properly but it doesn't resolve DNS names (because only the host has the extra DNS entries)
<awilkins> Can I just point it to my host machine as a DNS server (since it's all locally routed through something by default on Ubuntu?)(
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: IIRC it's because "Windows"
<TwistedLucidity> I have this exact set-up....trying to recall how I fixed it
<ali1234> awilkins: what network type?
<TwistedLucidity> I think it was much hacking of the routing table....
<awilkins> ali1234, NAT network
<awilkins> ali1234, the one where the machines share a network but also have NAT to the outside world
<ali1234> okay so with NAT the host runs a dhcp server for guests
<awilkins> Have found a forum topic
<ali1234> that should tell the guest what DNS server to use
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: So you want the guest to be able to hit-up servers on the VPN?
<awilkins> ali1234, Yeah, getting the DHCP address assignment
<awilkins> ali1234, But no DNS
<ali1234> none at all?
<awilkins> But there seems to be a setting for that
<ali1234> put in the host as DNS server then, probably
<awilkins> I have it set up to use Google's DNS but that obviously doesn't serve names from my corporate VPN
<ali1234> however, you need to know about split DNS
<ali1234> why not just run the VPN client on the guest?
<awilkins> It's an option
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: What I had to do was explicitly define the DNSs what live VPN-side as well as all the attendant DNS suffixes.
<TwistedLucidity> Seemed to work
<awilkins> Yeah, that would work
<awilkins> More of a fiddle though
<TwistedLucidity> Meh....set it once and forget it
<TwistedLucidity> On the hose I use a batch file to recreate all the network shares and add the DNS servers once I connect to the VPN.
<TwistedLucidity> "On the host..."
<mapps> hi all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> never clseep zmoylan-pi?
<zmoylan-pi> about 4 hours a day at the moment :-/
<diplo> Hi guys, best place to get a SSL cert from  ? Want to play with letsencrypt.org but that's a few months away yet
<MartijnVdS> diplo: cheapest? startssl
<MartijnVdS> diplo: if you need the insurance more expensive ones provide, go for something like gandi.net
<MartijnVdS> though startssl has EV certs too, but not for free
<diplo> Well it's for work, we don't need ssl for our data but I thought it was better to go that route, also google adding ranking based on if it's ssl now as well
<diplo> Just found namecheap are doing a basic one fairly cheap, I've never used SSL before so debating just going for the basics to play and make sure I can make it work correctly :)
<brobostigon> in irssi, how do i ignore highlights from a certain user?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: startssl is still free ;) unless you want cool stuff like wildcards etc. Those are cheaper at other places
<diplo> I do like the idea of wildcards for mail
<MartijnVdS> diplo: uh.. what do you mean?
<diplo> I maybe don't fully understand the certs
<MartijnVdS> diplo: you have multiple mail servers, you mean?
<diplo> So basically I have domain.com if I order a cert for domain.com can I use it for https and also for mail.domain.com ?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: let me find that crash course I Found a few weeks ago
<diplo> Or do I need a wildcard to be able to do subdomains
<MartijnVdS> diplo: best to order 2 certificates for that imho
<diplo> Ah right!
<MartijnVdS> diplo: one for the mail server, one for the https-server
<MartijnVdS> wildcards are useful if you have stuff like "my.domain.com" and "www.domain.com" and "somethingelse.domain.com" and want to protect them all at once
<MartijnVdS> and even then, SAN (subject alternative name) is considered better
<MartijnVdS> diplo: https://sites.google.com/site/x509certificateusage/ is good
<MartijnVdS> diplo: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Server_Side_TLS is also useful
<diplo> Looking now thanks
<MartijnVdS> diplo: also, to check your setup: https://www.ssllabs.com/
<MartijnVdS> diplo: they also have guides for proper SSL/TLS deployment
<diplo> Sorry missed the last link, thanks! Looking at that now
<black_screen> hi everyone
<black_screen> my computer get black screen instad og login screen
<Azelphur> Hey folks. I just bought a TP-Link WR703N. Got 2 laptops connected via WiFi with the router right next to them both (so full signal, 72mbit sync) if I ping the router I get like 2ms latency. if I ping the other laptop I get a ~100ms latency average with worst of like 400ms. Any ideas?
<ali1234> Azelphur: wifi signal can be too powerful
<ali1234> anyway you should test by pinging the router itself from each machine
<Azelphur> from each machine is fine, 2ms
<ali1234> so router has bad firmware...
<Azelphur> well, it's a fairly normal build of openwrt running on there
<Azelphur> ali1234, oO, actually I think I've found something
<Azelphur> my 11" laptop is getting very unstable latency to the router, anything from 1ms to 110ms
<Azelphur> my 15" laptop is getting <3ms every time
<ali1234> wifi compatibility problems then
<ali1234> wifi really sucks, get used to it
<Azelphur> ali1234, so it's a driver problem on the 11" laptop you think?
<ali1234> not as such
<ali1234> two perfectly working drivers might not work with each other
<ali1234> try moving channel, that sometimes helps
<ali1234> try moving further away too
<Azelphur> ok I moved it a bit further away, there's a little under a metre now
<Azelphur> latency is still the same, will try channel
<ali1234> a metre is not enough
<ali1234> go in a different room
<Azelphur> k moving laptop away from router, will see if it changes
<Azelphur> different room, same latency
<Azelphur> ali1234, well I'll be damned, that worked.
<ali1234> what?
<Azelphur> channel 11 to channel 6, latency dropped from 100ms average to 2.
<Azelphur> thanks dude :)
<ali1234> "wifi really sucks, get used to it"
<ali1234> check the other one still works now
<Azelphur> yea everything works now
<Azelphur> that makes my synergy work way better :)
<ali1234> port by bluetooth atches to newest synergy and use that instead
<ali1234> let me try that again
<ali1234> port my bluetooth patches to newest synergy and use that
<Azelphur> synergy over bluetooth?
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> that sounds...cool
<ali1234> you get free encryption, service discovery, roaming
<ali1234> and it's entirely out of band so big transfers don't make your control unresponsive
<ali1234> linux only and the patches are seriously out of date
<ali1234> if you can make it work on windows or mac then the upstream would be interested
<Azelphur> aww :<
<ali1234> if you know how to program bluetooth for windows it would be easy
<Azelphur> sadly I have no bluetooth programming knowledge
<ali1234> neither did i
<Azelphur> and my C++ extends to if (!qt) { nope }
<ali1234> the blueman developer helped me quite a bit
<Azelphur> cool :)
<ali1234> synergy is written in C i think
<Azelphur> oh
<ali1234> can't remember
<Azelphur> then just none :P
<Azelphur> I suppose logically you'd want to use a cross platform bluetooth library though rather than talking to blueman directly
<ali1234> nope, this is C++
<ali1234> it doesn't talk to blueman at all
<Azelphur> oh
<ali1234> it should be mostly cross platform
<ali1234> it uses rfcomm sockets, which act almost exactly like TCP sockets
<Azelphur> so did you use a bluetooth library of sorts that is close platform?
<ali1234> my favourite thing about it is that once you pair all your devices, you can have your laptop move seamlessly between synergy servers
<Azelphur> yea it'd definitely be cool for my laptops and such
<ali1234> if you have a workstation at work and at home you don't need to do anything, it just works with both
<Azelphur> so, whys this not mainline yet?
<Azelphur> because it sounds awesome
<ali1234> because when i wrote it, synergy was abandoned
<ali1234> it's been forked now
<Azelphur> it's on github now?
<ali1234> they contacted me to ask about using the patches, i said "sure, knock yourself out"
<ali1234> but nobody knew how to port it to windows
<Azelphur> ah
<ali1234> (or mac)
<Azelphur> that sucks
<ali1234> so it's just sitting waiting
<ali1234> http://synergy-project.org/wiki/Related_Projects#synergy-bluetooth
<ali1234> and yeah, they put it on github very recently
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> but the fork happened ages ago, synergy used to be svn for ages and eventually enough people complained so they switched
<Azelphur> yea sadly I ain't the one to port it to Windows/Mac either, I don't even have any of those machines
<ali1234> well then you could just refresh the patch for newest synergy :)
<ali1234> i mean it works fine if you only use linux
<Azelphur> all a bit beyond me, I wonder if it'd just patch against the latest synergy
<ali1234> unlikely with a patcht his old
<ali1234> it shouldn't be hard to port though
<ali1234> oh the other thing is that synergy-bluetooth can ONLY do bluetooth :)
<Azelphur> yea I only use synergy while roaming with my two laptops anyway
<ali1234> or... actually we might have fixed that
<ali1234> have a look at the patch anyway, it's only 280 lines
<Azelphur> worth trying to see if it patches in anyway, I forget how to apply a patch though
<Azelphur> ali1234, I think I managed to patch most of it in, but it seems like str2ba isn't around
<Azelphur> looks like it is/was part of bluez
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> no idea on what to do for that one
<ali1234> it converts string to bluetooth address
<Azelphur> sounds like kinda an important part of the library, reckon they've just renamed the function or moved it to another file?
<ali1234> it should still be around?
<Azelphur>  undefined reference to `str2ba' :<
<ali1234> linking?
<ali1234> you need to -lbluetooth
<ali1234> for some reason it isn't in the patch
<ali1234> have a look at the tarball
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure that works
<Azelphur> hmm, where on earth would I drop that in the Makefile
<Azelphur> the Makefile is huge
<ali1234> it's automake/autoconf
<ali1234> literally nobody understand it
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> so how do i -lbluetooth then
<ali1234> found it
<ali1234> 	ARCH_LIBS="$X_LIBS $X_PRE_LIBS $XEXT_LDADD -lXext -lX11 -lbluetooth $X_EXTRA_LIBS $ARCH_LIBS"
<ali1234> in configure.in
<ali1234> find the line that looks like this except without -lbluetooth
<Azelphur> I don't have a configure.in
<ali1234> ... yes you do
<Azelphur> find . | grep -i configure.in
<Azelphur> says no
<Azelphur> also not present on github
<ali1234> hahahahahahahahaha
<ali1234> they switched to cmake
<Azelphur> :P
<ali1234> add it to CMakeLists.txt
<ali1234> https://github.com/synergy/synergy/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L197
<ali1234> list(APPEND libs bluetooth)
<ali1234> put it somewhere
<Azelphur> stick it on line 198?
<ali1234> put it on 271
<Azelphur> k, rebuilding :)
<ali1234> you need to rerun cmake
<Azelphur> I'm actually just running make
<Azelphur> make seems to build it
<ali1234> cmake generates a makefile
<Azelphur> never ran cmake
<Azelphur> make seems to have worked though, looks like it built successfully
<ali1234> you got synergyc and synergys?
<Azelphur> yes
<ali1234> okay next you need to pair your computers on bluetooth
<ali1234> synergy can't do this, you must use blueman or something
<ali1234> or gnome-bluetooth or whatever
<Azelphur> amusingly this might be where we hit a roadblock, bluetooth on my laptop is fairly messed up to deal with hacky gasia ps3 controllers
<ali1234> it should be fine
<ali1234> it's very low level, it doesn't use profiles or anything like that
<Azelphur> well, in its current state, sudo service start bluetooth fails and the bluetooth dialog won't open, says BlueZ isn't running
<ali1234> heh, that's pretty messed up
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> don't happen to know where I could see logs to figure out why bluetooth isn't starting?
<ali1234> no idea these days
<Azelphur> oh thats interesting, in dmesg it says failed to spawn bluetooth main process: unable to execute: permission denied
<ali1234> rfcomm is the command line equivalent of ifconfig for bluetooth
<ali1234> wait no
<ali1234> it's hciconfig
<Azelphur> fixed it
<Azelphur> :D
<ali1234> the config file format for synergy is a bit different too
<ali1234> you don't need to put ip addresses, just names
<ali1234> and the names are the same as what the device advertises
<Azelphur> paired :D
<ali1234> i'm a bit worried that patch is not valid
<ali1234> it might not be the whole thing... seems short... i don't remember
<ali1234> oh well. just write a config file and then run synergyc/synergys
<ali1234> you might have to specify -bluetooth or --bluetooth
<ali1234> i don't know why though since it doesn't seem to support anything else
<ali1234> yeah this patch really can't be complete
<Azelphur> the client is saying WARNING: failed to connect to server: unsupported address for: azelphur-XMG-P505
<Azelphur> :<
<Azelphur> ali1234, aww
<ali1234> did you run it with -bluetooth?
<Azelphur> -bluetooth and --bluetooth are both unknown flags
<Azelphur> won't run with either
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> yeah patch looks incomplete
<ali1234> i wonder why
<Azelphur> oh well :<
<ali1234> well there's always the tarball
<Azelphur> hehe, yea I guess
<Azelphur> would be nice to see this builtin at any rate, if you ever felt like working on it
<ali1234> let me test the tarball
<ali1234> then i will try to fix the patch
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> yeah the patch is definitely broken, it doesn't have sdp discovery stuff
<ali1234> tarball won't build due to gcc warnings
<ali1234> this patch is lol
<ali1234> i dont even
<ali1234> here is the REAL patch http://paste.ubuntu.com/10040936/
<ali1234> well, roughly. i might have based it off the wrong version
<MooDoo> davmor2: hope you appreciated that ;)
<ali1234> ugh, they moved all the files around
<ali1234> Azelphur: how did you even get this patch to apply?
<Azelphur> ali1234, manually.
<Azelphur> ali1234, and yea they did
<ali1234> the real patch is 1000 lines
<Azelphur> but you're looking for ./src/lib/arch/unix/ArchNetworkBSD.cpp no doubt
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> lol, the files are completely different
<ali1234> the code that needs patching is now in a different place, probably completely rewritten
<Azelphur> fun]
<ali1234> 770 lines done
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/synergy/commit/6333e2dfcaa096b64b66051657d914ca713455ed
<ali1234> that won't build but it's a start
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-04
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> not a single person around?!
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapps> aha
<mapps> so someone is;d
<mapps> up to much?
<zmoylan-pi> watching star trek
<mapps> ah
<mapps> my nets so slow atm:(
<mapps> trying to grab some tv eps 200k/s
<mapps> ;/
<zmoylan-pi> not streaming, have them all on local hard hard drive.  transferred to tablet beside me for viewing
<zmoylan-pi> this is why you have a few tb of space for tv shows, movies, radio shows, music, ebooks.
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> what tablet you use
<zmoylan-pi> asus cheapo 7" from argos
<mapps> ah
<mapps> cool
<mapps> ive got a nexus7..also using an qan
<mapps> android phone now:D so i have dual sim..works pretty well
<mapps> 140 quid for dual sim was a bargain imo
<zmoylan-pi> i wanted tablet with memory cart slot.
<mapps> ah
<mapps> so cool being able to disable data on sim1 enable sim2 and set sim1 for default calls and texts:D
<mapps> works well despite some moaning aboiut it
<mapps> got quite a few tv eps to watch but should prob sleep soon;[ just watched 2 broke girls and now gotham time
<mapps> you watch Gotham?
<zmoylan-pi> no
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> morning knightwise
<popey> yo
<popey> i saw knightwise run past me at fosdem, but he was too quick for me
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> popey: and you didn't feel the need to trip him up, or was that about the same time you had the box of beer and the mad stare ;)
<popey> i only saw the back of his head and a video camera
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> how arez you doingz todaysss
<MooDoo> good thanks :D
<knightwise> hey MooDoo !
<Mike_nl> morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: just because Ubuntu doesn't hate like fedora doesn't mean you have to put up banners :D Welcome back to the darkside </vader_heavy_breathing_and_coughs>
<davmor2> Morning all
<Mike_nl> I just installed the linux-image-3.2.0-76-generic update on 12.04LTS. After reboot, eth0 disappeared; I had to reboot and run 3.2.0-75. Does anybody know if this a known issue? I couldn't easily find anything about it.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thank A Mailman Day! :-D
<Myrtti> well I almost cursed Parcelforce to the deepest abyss of hell just half an hour ago
<JamesTait> Close enough. ;)
 * knightwise just got his package for today
<knightwise> Gear2 Smartwatch for the misses
<Myrtti> https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/16255500867/
 * davmor2 thanks mailman for his monthly reminder of the mailing list he is a member of â JamesTait does that count?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> davmor2, perfect!
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<knightwise> ok , whoever is working on the Chromixium distro is doing a fine job
<ali1234> is transmission still a default app in ubuntu desktop?
<popey> i think so.
<ali1234> ta
<popey> oh, i have a vm, lemme boot it
<ali1234> it's not hugely important
<popey> k
<ali1234> and i posted now anyway
<popey> heh
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdbusmenu/+bug/1270486/comments/8
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1270486 in libdbusmenu (Ubuntu) "indicator-application doesn't use the menu item's label if it has a stock icon" [High,Triaged]
<knightwise> ali1234: it is
<MooDoo> evening all
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka
<diddledan> evening
<mapps> hi all
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you get my reply earlier?
<daftykins> to curry, or not to curry - hrmm
 * DJones eats chips an curry
<daftykins> :O
<mapps> not curry
<mapps> heh
<popey> mmmmm chips with curry sauce
<popey> not had that for a while
<DJones> popey: Thats what I'm eating, plus fish + beans
<popey> :)
<DJones> From the chippy as well (Only because my other half has spent the ;ast 2 hours having her hair done) and I couldn't be bothered cooking
<daftykins> i couldn't even get a bag of oven chips in the supermarket today
<daftykins> bit of a poor show!
<DJones> Bag of potatoes, bottle of spray oil, bit of peeling, chopping & job done
<daftykins> bit too labour intensive for me blood ;)
<daftykins> *my
<daftykins> what is with my fingers of late 0o
<DJones> Peeling the potatoes would exercise the  fingers making the typing better
<DJones> :)
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> i'd have to buy a peeler! :D
<DJones> I use a sharp knife since I was allowed to use things sharper than plastic scissors
<DJones> Bought a new knife block the other week to replace a 10 year old one, its amazing how sharp the knives are
<zmoylan-pi> you could have just sharpened the old knives?
<DJones> Been doing that, eventually they've just given out
<DJones> Plus these are thinner blades, so naturally sharper to start with
<zmoylan-pi> and the internet will go slightly more nuts than it already was... http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/feb/04/doctor-who-in-lego-bbc-strikes-deal-with-toy-manufacturer
<ali1234> lego will license anything these days
<zmoylan-pi> not star trek...
<ali1234> well you can't have star trek and star wars
<ali1234> unless you are j.j. abrams
<zmoylan-pi> if they can have dr. who and star wars they can have star trek
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i expect we'll get lego jurassic park though
<zmoylan-pi> paramount is missing out on a lot of sales
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19bujoZiBNA oh, it alreafdy happened
<ali1234> anyone else remember when lego people all looked exactly the same except with different haircuts?
<DJones> Ross Ulricht found guilty, I'm not sure whether thats a surprise or not
<ali1234> DJones: it's not a surprise at all
<zmoylan-pi> i remember the 70s lego people with articulared arms and wrists
<ali1234> DJones: they busted him in a library connected to the server and irc chat
<DJones> I remember when if you wanted "people" in lego, you had to build one yourself
<zmoylan-pi> i remember the mouse trap i made in lego...
<DJones> ali1234: I think I just expected the trial to go on a lot longer and then to fall through due to dodgily obtained evidence
<ali1234> DJones: there was basically no defense case
<DJones> ali1234: Yeah, the evidence as presented was pretty overwhelming, I was just waiting for a twist
<DJones> Maybe a comment that he was actually working for the CIA but couldn''t say anything otherwise he'd be killed
<ali1234> if he was working for the CIA the FBI wouldn't have caught him
<DJones> Heh
<zmoylan-pi> unless the cia found someone better and wanted rid of him
<ali1234> anyway, that twist already happened: he tried to blame mark kareles
<ali1234> *karpeles
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: if that happened nobody would ever see him again
<zmoylan-pi> nah they'd keep him somewhere just in case.  prison would make him more cooperative
<ali1234> anyway, if you look at the evidence, he's completely incompetent
<mapps> good tv night tonight
<mapps> yay
<daftykins> i just watched a Horizon doc
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-05
<m0nkey_> wow, my FN box emailed me to say it has updates pending
<m0nkey_> huh.. "Feb  4 19:09:06 tardis kernel: pid 1758 (syslog-ng), uid 0: exited on signal 6 (core dumped)"
<daftykins> your what box?
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> wrong room
<m0nkey_> was meant for #freenas
<daftykins> :>
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> zmoylan-1i
<mapps> daftykins
<mapps> gelllooo
<mapps> hm
<MooDoo> morning all
<bashrc> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Weathermanâs Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: also, world Nutella day
<MartijnVdS> http://www.nutelladay.com/
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, also, Chocolate Fondue Day.
<JamesTait> https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/chocolate-fondue-day/
<bashrc_> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc_> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<markie-> HEY HEY!!!
<zmoylan-pi> the monkies?
<popey> zmoylan-pi: speak for yourself!
<zmoylan-pi> all those years of learning ventriloquism wasted... :-)
<NET||abuse> hey guys, i've just re-built my old n40L microserver, got 1TB system disk, and 4x WD 4TB red's  in the array, I was considering a zfs setup with freenas, but i realize i really dont know bsd, and i might be better served focusing on learning more about setting up a linux array the right way for now.
<NET||abuse> the N40L people always say dont use the "fake" raid on it's controller, put the drives in AHCI mode and setup mdadm, is this still the best way?
<NET||abuse> I've been thinking what state is btrfs in for doing software disk redundancy? or is the linux zfs port ready for home use?
<diplo> I used software raid on mine NET||abuse
<diplo> Don't use cheap raid cards, not worth it to be honest
<diplo> popey uses btrfs on his n40 still and works well
<popey> n36l :)
<bashrc_> I think zfs works on linux, but isn't GPL compatible so can't be baked directly into the kernel
<NET||abuse> i want 2 things, one, at least a single drive failure tollerence. and 2, if the 1TB system disk dies, i want to be able to drop a fresh install of linux/ubuntu whatever on a new system disk and be able to recover access to the 4 disks
<diplo> I'm debating about it myself when I can afford another 2 disks
<bigcalm> I'm happy with the madam raid1 array in my proliant. It's using ext4
<popey> NET||abuse: i use btrfs because i like that I can replace small disks with bigger ones later
<popey> and easily remove a disk from the array and replace it when it goes bad (I have spares)
<bigcalm> How does one find out what N## proliant microserver one is using without taking it apart?
<NET||abuse> popey: yeh, this is the thing about raid i was thinking of dealing with.
<bigcalm> Ah, cat /proc/cpuinfo
<bigcalm> N54L
<NET||abuse> that's one way.
<NET||abuse> was going to suggest take the S/N off the sticker on the back and google :(
<popey> I have 2x (4x2tB) arrays in mine
<popey> but it's all the way over ---> there
<NET||abuse> popey: you using the ext sata connector to a second array?
<popey> no, using a pci card
<NET||abuse> ahhh
<NET||abuse> and you're using btrfs?
<popey> onboard sata can't drive multiple drives by default
<popey> yes
<NET||abuse> cool
<NET||abuse> how is it for read/write performance vs an mdadm setup?
<NET||abuse> have you tested?
<popey> dunno, not done a direct comparison
<popey> I don't really care, it's for backups
<popey> and a data dump
<NET||abuse> read online a bit about people saying for zfs setups the cpu is a bottleneck constraining it to about 30/40 Mb/s
<popey> the N40L has a fairly weedy cpu
<NET||abuse> wondering if the same is true for mdadm or btrfs
<popey> i would imagine so
<popey> ask me at 12:00 when my backup kicks in
<popey> i have iostat running
<NET||abuse> seems likely, thought if i can stream a legitemately backedup blueray from it's drive to the samsung tv over ethernet without jitter, i'm happy
<popey> right now all the drives are idle
<bigcalm> popey: the N54L I have is running a minecraft serfver okay ;)
<popey> oh that should be fine
<popey> yeah, my n36L is a minecraft server for home too
<popey> kids dont play it much anymore
<NET||abuse> hahahha, nice!!
<bigcalm> popey: you should join my server that's full of mods :D
<NET||abuse> I think i heard you mention that on chris's show before
<bigcalm> popey: gives MC a new life
<popey> nice
<popey> i have all the disks spin down when idle
<popey> which is handy given it only backs up 4 times a day
<cocoa117> anyone know in ubunu 14.04 how to change user's password? the echo 'fdsfsdf' | passwd --stdin no longer work
<cocoa117> the passwd --stdin option is no longer avaiable
<NET||abuse> cocoa117: can't you just migrate to ssh keys? :)
<cocoa117> NET||abuse, need to use sudo, so i assume it need to enter password?
<bigcalm> Who fancies the beer train later this year?
<NET||abuse> nope
<NET||abuse> sudo doesn't require passwords if you set NOPASSWD in sthe sudo file
<popey> bigcalm: yes!
<popey> bigcalm: the guys at fosdem asked if we were doing it
<popey> we played CAH on the Eurostar
<popey> I nearly died
<popey> choked on a pina colada
<popey> #firstworldproblems
<bigcalm> Grand. I'll go and find out when Hayley will be free and then make a poll :D
<cocoa117> net||abuse, so in the visudo, i need to modify the %sudo all=(all:all) all to nopassword?
<bigcalm> popey: will you have exploding kittens by the time we're on the RAT?
<popey> it says July
<bigcalm> Okay, I'll aim for afterwards
<NET||abuse> cocoa117: yeh, the line woutl be   %sudo ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD
<NET||abuse> :ALL
<NET||abuse> damn,, sorry
<popey> danger will robinson! :)
<NET||abuse>    %sudo ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:ALL
<NET||abuse> it is pretty rough, but i would couple this with /etc/sshd/sshd_config   make the  PasswordAuthentication  no
<popey> NET||abuse: here we go, backup started :)
<NET||abuse> cool
<diplo> So.. do I go with RaspPI 2 or the Odroid-C1 anyone got any thoughts ?
<popey> i have ordered a pi2
<diplo> Long wait ?
<zmoylan-pi> pi2 if it's your first as the community is huge
<popey> right, so my box is now doing a rather io intensive command:- [05/Feb/2015:12:00:10] /bin/cp -al /backups/rsnapshot/hourly.0 /backups/rsnapshot/hourly.1
<popey> ordered a few days ago, it just shipped yesterday
<diplo> I've used a pi before, it's only for a media front end for my sons room
<diplo> Ah cool, saw sil say his was 3 weeks away
<popey> NET||abuse: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10071943/
<popey> wat!
<popey> so lots of iowait
<NET||abuse> yup,
<popey> sda-d are the btrfs volume
<NET||abuse> to be expected with cpu bound io
<popey> e is / on ssd
<popey> that process usually takes ~40 mins for me.
 * popey does a du to see how big that is
<cocoa117> is there a way to modify the /etc/sudoers file using sed? I tried to change its permission to 600 first then sed it, then change it back, it don't seems to work
<NET||abuse> nope, not really
<NET||abuse> visudo is made specifically for that purpose
<NET||abuse> but what you can do is drop files into /etc/sudoers.d/ and it'll interpret the .conf's inthat directory
<cocoa117> NET||abuse, i want to edit few server's /etc/sudoers file with script
<NET||abuse> hmm, i did it with puppet before, trying to remember what was required
<cocoa117> NET||abuse, don't have puppet yet, only using ssh and coreutil tool chain
<NET||abuse> yeh, but the method puppet used might indicate what other ways you can edit that file.
<popey> isnt there a multi-ssh thing you can use?
<diplo> You could use ansible with ssh as well
<NET||abuse> cluster-ssh
<cocoa117> popey, what's multi-ssh
<NET||abuse> just cssh
<popey> thats the one
<popey> cluster-ssh
<popey> lets you run the same command on multiple machines at once
<NET||abuse> it opens multiple ssh windows at once and you can type in all of them at once.
<NET||abuse> what i do sometimes if i have numbered servers, eg prodnginx01-15  i would do
<NET||abuse> cssh prodnginx{01,02,03,04,05,06...etc..}  and it'll open up however many windows and one control window for all of them
<NET||abuse> then as long as you keep the current directory the same on all the windows, you can control a fleet of machines from one command line.
<cocoa117> ennn, sounds cool, i have look that, many thanks
<davmor2> JamesTait: The weathermen should never be happy look at the weather they keep giving us,  all this grey yet no joyous snow the swines :)
<NET||abuse> popey: you running 14.04 or 14.10 ?
<NET||abuse> for that n40L ?
<NET||abuse> wondering if there's anything worth using 14.04 for or if i should just with latest.
<NET||abuse> want the best possible version of btrfs
<popey> 14.04
<NET||abuse> if that's what i'm going to use.
<bigcalm> LTS for servers!
<popey> you should use the later kernel imo
<popey> for btrfs
<popey> although mine is on 3.13.0-45-generic
<NET||abuse> yeh, thought that would be the best course of cation.
<popey> and seems okay
<popey> ask darkling in #btrfs - he knows which kernels have the best support
<markie-_> I have had a sex change recently, who wants to be the first to test out my new vagina?
<bigcalm> RAT date poll: http://doodle.com/4sdaaswwngu4n2bm
<bigcalm> I'll do a mailing like post later
<cocoa117> find a way to do command line changing user passwd, use chpasswd and give in the username:password as pair from stdin
<cocoa117> i got 30 servers!!!, thank god
<popey> NET||abuse: 1.2T    /backups/rsnapshot/hourly.0
<popey> 50 mins to do 1.2TB copy -al
<NET||abuse> is that 400 or 40MB/s
<MooDoo> ok time to play with glusterfs and ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> is it just me, or does that name sound strange
<MooDoo> which name?
<MartijnVdS> glusterfs
<MartijnVdS> has a "gollum"-y note to it somehow
<MooDoo> yeah sounds like clusterfu** maybe that's what kept happening as it was being developed lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: makes you wonder what happened during btrfs development 8-)
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: boll***** the root files system
<bigcalm> davmor2: czajkowski: http://doodle.com/4sdaaswwngu4n2bm
<bigcalm> popey: thanks :)
<popey> might delete and re-add
<popey> signed in with wrong google account
<bigcalm> popey: 4 is enough for a game of CAH?
<popey> fixed!
<bigcalm> Considering that I don't see which account you used, it makes no difference to me :)
<bigcalm> Starting to fill up
<bigcalm> And now a name I don't recognise
<long> !connect
<bigcalm> To what?
<shauno> well, in what has to be the oddest single day I've spent at work, I ended up trying to explain what I do all day to the french ambassador
<popey> did you explain using ferrero rocher?
<shauno> hm.  I wasn't aware I was meant to
<zmoylan-pi> he didn't have access to the ambassador
<bashrc> does he make exceedingly good cakes?
<shauno> isn't that rudyard kipling?
<zmoylan-pi> nah, he created the website junglebook
<shauno> I have no idea anymore :/  I just steal TV from the internet
<zmoylan-pi> if it's on the internet it's not stealing as you are not denying the original owner access to their property :-)
<shauno> nah, I don't pretend it's anything else.  but my cable box is a steaming heap, and if I get a new one, they want to replace it with an all-in-one router/tv/wifi/phone stb
<shauno> so I keep my terrible old box so I can have my own router/etc
<shauno> (the upc horizon stuff)
<awilkins> Ew, I thought they were going the other way
<awilkins> My ISP does TV box and router / hub separately
<awilkins> The firmware even has a "just be a frickin' modem" mode because it's so notoriously unstable
<awilkins> Hence mine is in "modem" mode and I have an internal router running OpenWRT
<MartijnVdS> Mine just say "Here's an ethernet connection. Do PPPoE on VLAN 6 and you're good to go"
<shauno> mine has modem passthrough thingie too, but they tried to hide it :(
<shauno> (they just commented it out of the webui. most modern browsers let you do that live-edit stuff so you can just uncomment it and submit)
<Myrtti> bigcalm: what was the photobooth app you used on the tablet?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: ug, one mo
<bigcalm> Myrtti: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.groundupworks.partyphotobooth&hl=en_GB
<Myrtti> bigcalm: thank you very, very much
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | IRC stats: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | next meeting TBA | http://doodle.com/4sdaaswwngu4n2bm Beer Train!
<zmoylan-pi> is there a stand app to put a thumb over every pic taken? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> *standard
<bigcalm> Myrtti: if you use that app, it would be good to provide a sign that says "once you've taken all 4 photos, press the button to finish". Otherwise people will just cancel photos taken by other people
<Myrtti> bigcalm: ta, will make a note
<bigcalm> We did a sign of 1. 2. 3. type instructions - nobody read them
<bigcalm> popey: did you read them?!
<popey> nope
<popey> I didnt use it
<zmoylan-pi> no one reads instructions...
<zmoylan-pi> until AFTER something goes wrong
<bigcalm> popey: shame on you
<bigcalm> czajkowski: please nudge Jon to take the beer poll too :)
<czajkowski> will do
<czajkowski> he's at work currently :)
<czajkowski> thyat whole work thing it'll never catch on
<bigcalm> I try to avoid it if I can
<czajkowski> where;s the lord gone
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://doodle.com/4sdaaswwngu4n2bm#table
<czajkowski> poke your other hald
<czajkowski> *half
<bigcalm> Mailing list mailed
<bigcalm> And tweeted
<bigcalm> People are using names that I don't know. Most confusing
<zmoylan-pi> it's the irc surreal names policy :-)
<Pendulum> bigcalm: I was about to be sad about it being a month later than I'll be in the UK, but then I remembered that I can't drink anyway
<bigcalm> Pendulum: *wah*
<bigcalm> Pendulum: there are non-alchy drinks as well :)
<bigcalm> Pendulum: I start organising the RAT each year in about Feb
<bigcalm> Make a note for next year ;)
<Pendulum> bigcalm: I still won't be in the UK in late August. It's going to be late July (and it's not negotiable since it's based on an outside date)
<Pendulum> next year, I'm not sure I'll make it over :(
<bigcalm> Though I'm not sure how wheel chair accessible the train is :S
<bigcalm> Pendulum: we will make it happen some day!
<bigcalm> Pendulum: interesting - http://www.watercressline.co.uk/article.php/53/accessibility
<Pendulum> bigcalm: If I figure out how to carry my walker while traveling, I'd be okay as long I have a seat once I'm on the train.
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Pendulum: last year czajkowski didn't drink a drop as she was driving Jon (crazy)
<bigcalm> So drink is not compulsory
<Pendulum> it's actually the figuring out how to bring my walker with me while traveling solo that's the hard part
<popey> the year before I didnt drink
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I promise not to be a back seat driver this year ;)
<zmoylan-pi> as someone who finds crutches/walking stick awkward on public transport i concur.  i couldn't imagine a walker...
<czajkowski> I dont mind not drinking tbh
<czajkowski> was hilarious with you lot
<bigcalm> \o/
<Pendulum> zmoylan-pi: I'm not thinking about that. I use a wheelchair & live in the US. It's the travel from the US to the UK where I'm not sure about bringing the walker
<Pendulum> if I'm ever in a position to potentially make it to the RAT I'll figure it out
<popey> got a new game to play too!
<bigcalm> popey: did you go for the adult pack?
<bigcalm> I might go and back it myself. I think my local social geek groups would have fun
<bigcalm> Do I want to spend $50 on a card game?
<bigcalm> ...
<bigcalm> christel: yay!
<bigcalm> Backed by 54031.1%
<davmor2> popey: if it is the lick your fingers and stick then in the socket game again, I'm telling everyone now that you cheat ;)
<bigcalm> popey: is TTMooney Travis that was on the train last year?
<popey> bigcalm: i did get the nsfw pack, yes
<bigcalm> Me too, I'm a sukka
<zmoylan-pi> if a game were sfw would it still be a game?
<bigcalm> At least the transaction won't be processed for another 2 weeks :)
<popey> We didn't playtest this at all is SFW and fun
<czajkowski> bigcalm: he's done it now
<bigcalm> czajkowski: who what eh?
<popey> filbert
<bigcalm> Ah, Jon, yes
<bigcalm> Is it wrong to be excited so soon?
<popey> haha, regular as clockwork, recruit emails from google
<popey> every 3 months
<bigcalm> Just in case you've changed your mind
<popey> well yes.
<zmoylan-pi> or prepared to sell your soul to santa
 * oracology waves at all
<diddledan> ello
<diddledan> I've got illness
<diddledan> :-(
<oracology> guys and gals, i hope this isn't an abuse of this channel, but did you see the absolutely heartbreaking news of the GPG developer going broke? :(
<diddledan> I think it's a severe case of manflu
<oracology> i just recovered from a real flu. i wish it were man flu. it was horrendous.
<diddledan> I hope it's not real flu
<oracology> can we as a community do something about it? even if individuals can't donate, it is surely worth spreading the word...poor Werner!
<diddledan> was he doing gpg fulltime?
<oracology> yes
<oracology> http://www.propublica.org/article/the-worlds-email-encryption-software-relies-on-one-guy-who-is-going-broke
<oracology> he was going to give up in 2013 but the news of snowden broke and he decided to stick with it.
<oracology> of course people may say he could've done better with marketing, gofundme type stuff, but still, for one person...this is just so sad. he needs a hand.
<oracology> anyway, just thought i'd share with you all!
<bashrc> I also read that article
<bashrc> I use gpg multiple times per day
<MooDoo> evening all
<MooDoo> If you're not using the ubuntu-uk mailing list and are interested in the Real Ale train this year, go vote for dates here - http://doodle.com/4sdaaswwngu4n2bm
<daftykins> wow i feel like you guys were talking about that only last week :)
<MooDoo> oh did i miss something lol
<daftykins> hrmm do i allow a NAS to auto update... tum-te-tum
<MooDoo> am I too late to the party :D
<daftykins> MooDoo: nah nah, just the rapid passage of time i think
<mapps> this film nightcrawler is cool!
<daftykins> someone just called it funny in another channel
<mapps> hm
<mapps> well iys enjoyable
<mapps> 8/10 on imdb
<mapps> 1hr57 is long imo but its worth it
<mapps> ate watching long films..most should cut the dross and be less
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> wait until they're at home, then use pause \o/
<mapps> ;]
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-06
<mapps> again pi taking ages
<mapps> installing mysql on ..stopping mysqld' just hanging
<daftykins> best get a Pi v2.0
<mapps> can access the web server but it's also taking ages http://parrots.zapto.org
<mapps> cant ssh in
<mapps> yea but the other pi i have is fine?
<mapps> cant find any suggestions
<mapps> argh
<daftykins> mem usage and logs
<mapp> hi all
<daftykins> mornin'
<mapp> had a guy tell me tonight apple is now windows
<mapp> as they use intel cpus
<mapp> and its all microsoft
<mapp> ...moron
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> plus that was like, 8 years ago?
<mapp> ja
<mapp> why do i have to work
<mapp> isnt fair
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> that's a bit of a 12 year old comment sir ;D
<mapp> ;]
<mapp> a girl wants to go out for a drink with me back in UK..but im not there anymore..and she has  2 kids ..should i avoid?
<daftykins> hell to the yes
<daftykins> probably another money borrower eh
<mapp> i would expect so
<mapp> and not even that
<mapp> even if i liked her..do i want 2 kids that aint mine?
<mapp> and her ex boyfriend around all the time?
<mapp> i say..no!
<mapp> but people say im rude and snobby?
<daftykins> lmao
<mapp> I'd be embarassed to go to anywhere with my family and say this is my partner with her 2 kids from 2 men
<daftykins> i would not get involved with a situation like that
<daftykins> but i'm against kids in general
<mapp> yea
<mapp> my dad lives in Knightsbridge..so no single mums;p council wont pay that rent..my uncle was in the MET
<mapp> all from stable families
<mapp> same mum/dad no step kids and that stuff
<mapp> it's all very foreign to me
<mapp> I grew up in a loving environment ...ideal family (in my opinin) a boy and a girl ..me and my sister and my parents
<daftykins> sounds good to me
<mapp> everytime i meet a girl with kids they have SO MANY STORIES
<mapp> 'my ex beat me'
<mapp> 'i was raped'
<mapp> etc
<mapp> and I'm left just thinking..what to do..do i ignore it and think ok theyre nice and think i can help them
<mapp> or the normal..and think they;d bring me a lot of hassle?
<mapp> and i think really its the 2nd?
<daftykins> deffo
<daftykins> i'm sure there are some hard done by, but there are plenty of fish in the sea
<mapp> my dad always says 'you never know what happened the guy might've walked out on them'
<mapp> and while thats true
<mapp> like..the dad will somehow be in the scene ..they aren;t my kids
<mapp> and these people are always known to the police and social services (something i'd rather not be)
<daftykins> i don't even think i can be bothered to learn someone news story if they don't even have kids :)
<daftykins> sadly got given the heave-ho by a childhood sweetheart of 15 years recently
<mapp> what do you mean learn someone news story?
<daftykins> as in meeting someone new
<daftykins> not sure i cba with that a lot of the time :D
<mapp> aha
<daftykins> mapp: check out my nasty shingles ;D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qyenw4qtihkmlk9/shingles6.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> nearly cleared up now 0o
<daftykins> mornin'
<mapp> morning
<mapp> will do in sec daftykins
<knightwise> morning peeps
<daftykins> o/
<mapp> morning Knightmare
<mapp> knightwise
<mapp> :)
<knightwise> how are you guys doing today :)
<mapp> not bad..sleep for me in an hr or so:D
<mapp> 726am for me
<mapp> in euro time:)
<daftykins> not bad ty sir
<knightwise>  same here
<knightwise> mapp: Where you at?
<mapp> I'm in Gibraltar mate
<knightwise> Belgium :)
<knightwise> There , episode with fossdem interviews all done and uploaded
<knightwise> next up  : Record a new HPR episode
<mapp> knightwise are you english?
<knightwise> Nope :) I'm as Belgian as they come .. why ?
<mapp> aha
<mapp> just wondered
<mapp> well
<mapp> ypou're in a -uk chan:P
<mapp> so i assumed maybe english heh
<mapp> ive been to Belgium many years ago
<mapp> also been to Holland..mention as you both speak the dutch:D
<knightwise> I have more English/us/uk friends on line then belgian ones. I do an english - speaking podcast , read english books etc
<mapp> aha
<knightwise> I speak dutch, french, german and english
<mapp> nice
<mapp> french sucks:D
<balor> It's not specifically mentioned in the article, but this is the kind of thing that Ubuntu helps happen in Eastbourne http://bit.ly/1Km9zzz We coudn't do it without open-source.
<bashrc> morning
<awilkins> Hello
<bashrc> on the article, my experience from the last few years is that there isn't necessarily an IT skills shortage, but there is a problem with IT recruitment practices
<bashrc> i.e. recruiters having unrealistic expectations, strange HR pre-screening, etc
<balor> bashrc, I agree, and more.
<balor> bashrc, companies need to understand that a good Java programmer can be a decent .Net programmer if you give them a month (and vice-versa).
<knightwise> has any of you ever tried using Mutt with multiple Gmail accounts ?
<bashrc> I use mutt, but not with gmail
<knightwise> hmm.. its tricky to get multiple accounts working
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Doodle Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> it's a friday, that's good enough for most
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, it's also Working Naked Day.
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, have you looked at your co workers lately? :-)
<JamesTait> Not in person since December... but on hangouts, weekly at least. ;)
<JamesTait> Seeing those in the southern hemisphere wearing tshirts and strappy tops while my teeth are chattering - not sure that has quite the morale-boosting qualities intended. :-P
<Seeker`> JamesTait: yeah, but when they've got their dull overcast winter weather, they'll get to see your dull overcast summer weather! Think how jealous you'll be!
<Seeker`> *they'll be!
 * JamesTait chuckles at Seeker`
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<bashrc> a bit of fun: https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term
<NET||abuse> mornin all.
<NET||abuse> just finished the hardware reconfiguration of the microserver, have the 16TB's of storage ready to configure, thinking of using btrfs, but not sure
<NET||abuse> popey: did you flash your n40L 's bios to get higher speeds on the optical bay sata interface?
<popey> no
<popey> but I know people who have
<NET||abuse> yeh, was debating if i need to, but, i have a 1TB wd green as my system disk (it's a bit big but it's what i had :)  )
<popey> MORNING! (btw)
<NET||abuse> i'm not sure if i need the performance on that disk,
<popey> i have sata as my system disk, attached to internal ssd
<popey> er, sata
<NET||abuse> so reverse that last sentence? You have ssd as system disk? attached to internal sata?
<popey> yes
<NET||abuse> yeh, well, that interface will be running at a pretty slow ide speed rather than full ahci mode?
<NET||abuse> so if you were looking for read performance from the ssd, not sure you're getting any
<NET||abuse> but yeh, it's the system disk, so not sure we need any real high performance there.
<NET||abuse> i'll leave it
<NET||abuse> might lengthen boot time a bit, but how often do you do that.
<popey> i try not to boot it too often
<diddledan> morning
<knightwise> yoyo
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31164451
<diddledan> gchq was breaking the law. who knew?
<diddledan> the guardian has more info: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/06/gchq-mass-internet-surveillance-unlawful-court-nsa
<knightwise> oH realy ?
<knightwise> its not like the havent been doing it ever since WW1
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> I saw a good youtube video on the history of the nsa a week or so ago. explained that it was set up essentially to retain the powers that were provided during wartime under censorship law
<diddledan> my youtube history suggests it's this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh9txt1TGt8
<DJones> Heh, poundland buying 99p stores, wonder if they'll get the 1p change
<diddledan> DJones, that's worrying - it means that everything in the 99p stores will go up by 1%
<DJones> Could well do
<moreati> diddledan: they'll add a special offer, buy 99 get 1 free
<NET||abuse> ok, i'm thinking of using the native btrfs raid setup for my 4 disk array, but the internet says btrfs raid5 support is experimental
<NET||abuse> is there any major reason to use mdadm to raid under btrfs ? and just do a stripe then on top of the mdadm volume?
<diddledan> btrfs stripe on-top of an mdadm won't do anything unless you have multiple mdadm volumes
<diddledan> mdraid**
<diddledan> stripe requires at least two block devices
<diddledan> you should either use mdraid OR btrfs-native raid NOT both
<NET||abuse> ahh ,well, what i mean is, mdraid 5 on 4 disks, and then btrfs, well if i have raid then why use btrfs?
<diddledan> btrfs adds more than just raid
<NET||abuse> would you bother with mdraid? Or just use native btrfs-raid setup?
<NET||abuse> this i sjust for my home server, so its' partly just an effort to experiment.
<NET||abuse> but also if i do a setup, i dont know when i'll be able to take the content offthe array again.
<mapp> arghhhh still cant make this pi any quicker
<zmoylan-pi> attach rockets...
<diddledan> mapp, are you sure it can do so?
<mapp> ;]
<diddledan> you could try liquid nitrogen and extreme overclocking it
<diddledan> but as with most processors there is a limit to how fast it can go. I've yet to see a computer with unlimited procesing capability
<diddledan> I suppose the question is "why do you want it to go quicker?"
<zmoylan-pi> someone got a z80 up to ludicrous speeds using frozen vodka as heat sink
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> methinks liquid nitrogen would do a better job :-p
<zmoylan-pi> not as easy to get hands on
<diddledan> I'm not sure you're supposed to put your hand in it
<shauno> eh, sounds about right to me.  vodka coolant = potato engineering
<zmoylan-pi> potatos powering it, potatos cooling it
<diddledan> shauno, you're irish
<shauno> -_-
<daftykins> lol
<diddledan> so the oo! buntu! phone has been announced
<diddledan> http://go.bwlh.at/1ujTarg
<daftykins> just wait for the swathes of great unwashed descending upon #ubuntu - only to find that it's off topic in there.
<daftykins> and allegedly nobody in #ubuntu-phone replies
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> er #ubuntu-touch i mean
<diddledan> then they'll end up here
<diddledan> speaking broken engrish expecting native-language support :-p
<diddledan> ok, willcooke, if you insist
 * diddledan does his hobbies
<diddledan> in related musing, how about them current affairs, eh?
<daftykins> that's ok, they only go for popey ;)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> oh, like how 'bout that $sports_team?
<zmoylan-pi> in further news there will be weather
<diddledan> yeah, that sports team are awesome. I quite like the sports person
<diddledan> lead*
<daftykins> so blustery here :(
<daftykins> howling winds
<diddledan> daftykins, you've got weather?
<daftykins> i have!
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> nice
<daftykins> in spades, sir
<diddledan> I like weather
<diddledan> weather is fun
<diddledan> unless you're outside
<shauno> the weather here is entirely average.  it's not cold, it's not warm.  not windy, not still.  somewhere between light grey and dark grey.
<daftykins> no truer word was on this day spoken
<daftykins> oh hey guys how about this for a technological achievement
<daftykins> my home insurance company is 2 doors up from me
<shauno> with gaps I hope?
<zmoylan-pi> i'm in dublin, we have rain, wind, sun, hail, sleet, fog today and then the weather station blew up
<daftykins> amusingly their policy renewal letter goes from town to the centre of the island where the post office HQ is, to come back out to me right beside
<shauno> eg, if you burn down, they don't?
<daftykins> aaaand i just paid my bill online ;D
<daftykins> shauno: mmm, my neighbour would get it, but i think they'd survive yeah
<shauno> :)
<shauno> I'd probably do it online too.  better record-keeping.  plus I don't need pants online.
<diddledan> you mean there's the possibility of IRL interaction?!
<diddledan> that's scary
<daftykins> i was totally going to go in, but then i saw that i needed to shave and it was already half 4
<diddledan> daftykins, shaving takes over an hour?
<daftykins> there was more besides :)
<diddledan> you must be seriously hairly
<diddledan> --l
<daftykins> haha nah, i'm very under developed in the facial hair department
<zmoylan-pi> he's 1/4 hungarian?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, like granville?
<daftykins> gr-gr-gr-granville
<zmoylan-pi> twas a line in scrubs
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granville_%28Open_All_Hours%29
<diddledan> :-D
<shauno> does any of this make sense to anyone else?
<daftykins> i'm kinda smiling and nodding right now
<daftykins> gah, 5pm - death of the many retail options that surround me
<daftykins> i think i've run out of cereal :P
<shauno> well, good news, it's not breakfast time :)
<daftykins> bad news, on my schedule it is :(
<zmoylan-pi> unless you work night shift
<diddledan> eh? "islamic state claim us female hostage killed in a coalition air strike in syria"
<diddledan> surely they'd rather take the credit themselves, no?
<zmoylan-pi> people would want to see gruesome video...
<diddledan> like "we killed her, but we're gonna blame you"
 * daftykins always does
<daftykins> i've always had such a morbid curiosity
<diddledan> I avoid them
<daftykins> i don't think seeing things on screen is anything like the reality though
<shauno> it probably works in their favour to discredit coalition actions
<diddledan> I don't mind it in movies but when I know it's actual harm I have issues
<diddledan> although, technically I have "issues" anyway
<daftykins> really?!
<shauno> quelle surprise!
 * daftykins gives shauno's translator a spot of percussive maintenance
<diddledan> why can I not read french without using a french accent?
<zmoylan-pi> there are famous pictures from vietnam with a prisoner been shot or a monk self immolating that are readily available. on the one hand it's someone dying but censorship doesn't seem right either
<diddledan> oh, I agree censorship is bad
<diddledan> it's up to the individual as to whether they want to see it or not
<zmoylan-pi> but do you want a 10yo clicking on a link to that?
<shauno> I think there's a huge leap from that, to snuff propoganda
<diddledan> or the individual's parents if under age
<diddledan> is snuff a real thing then? I always figured it was invented
<zmoylan-pi> it was the moral crusade of the 80s when vcrs became common
<daftykins> does seem a bit weird
<diddledan> like "wanna sex me? I'm gonna kill you, is that ok?"
<zmoylan-pi> i don't remember any convictions from that time. reckon they would have been huge if they did happen
<shauno> I just mean there's quite some difference between documentary evidence, and propoganda.  the idea that there's an audience waiting for their next "PR stunt" is quite disgusting
<diddledan> indeed
<zmoylan-pi> jackass did well for a few seasons...
<diddledan> jackass is still going, no? wasn't "bad grandpa" one of theirs
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> silly won't die
<diddledan> it completely didn't appeal to me
<diddledan> bashrc, damn that peer
<diddledan> bashrc, damn that peer
<diddledan> too quick :-p
<diddledan> why do peers insist on reseting connections so often?
<daftykins> one day we'll get that guy
<daftykins>  /whois peer
<diddledan> non existant
<diddledan> nickserv sais they were last seen 38 weeks ago
<diddledan> says*
<diddledan> although their alter-ego is online now
<diddledan> spb
<diddledan> that's their username
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> /nickserv info peer
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> it would be quite amusing to be 'peer' just to see how much abuse you get in a given week
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> especially if you hang-out in the freenode channel
<shauno> that's like saying it'd be fun to be kevin costner :/
<diddledan> shauno, wow, that's harsh, man, harsh
<zmoylan-pi> and you'd never be allowed buy a hamster...
 * daftykins doesn't get it
<zmoylan-pi> don't look it up
<daftykins> is there a connection between hamsters and kevin costner?
<zmoylan-pi> an internet urban legend.  completely untrue
<daftykins> so shall us four get a table at the next ubuntu event and demonstrate our amazingly on-topic values? :D
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> I vote we bring-along a rent-a-hamster
<zmoylan-pi> look for the table discussing who's the best star trek captain... :-)
<diddledan> oh god
<diddledan> that's so obviously Jonathan Archer
<zmoylan-pi> the best klingon captain just to be niche
<daftykins> oof
<diddledan> and T'Pol the best first officer
<zmoylan-pi> only because of the decontamination scences
<diddledan> heck yeah
<daftykins> i'm still working on TOS with a friend, we're half way into what he calls 'the turd season' atm
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> don't forget star trek animated after that.  voices of original tos crew
<diddledan> next gen kinda lost me with the whole Q stuff
<diddledan> if not for Q the series woulda been fine
<zmoylan-pi> i loved q.  q was special. he toyed with humans for his own amusment but did ultimately help us
<diddledan> I enjoyed his part but I didn't think it really fitted with the rest of the storyline
<zmoylan-pi> just tng has dated
<shauno> I did like Q.  he was basically the universe's bofh.
<zmoylan-pi> the whole we can talk out all our problems picard
<zmoylan-pi> here deal with a god
<diddledan> janeway did away with that by shooting everything
<zmoylan-pi> janeway did show the borg not to mess with humans
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> I liked the borg-vs-voyager story
<daftykins> Q brought along the seemingly endless court scenes, omw i could've done without those
<zmoylan-pi> seven was fun.  trying to be human and never quite fitting in
<shauno> eh, they weren't as bad as "holodeck episodes"
<zmoylan-pi> but that made a lot more sense in the last episode of the tng
<daftykins> shauno: how to write a holodeck episode: 1) safety protocols are off 2) go nuts!
<zmoylan-pi> humans are always been judged by the q.  ie. keeping you on your toes
<shauno> I just skipped most of them :/  especially when Voyager went to Mayo ..
<diddledan> black-and-white holodeck ftw
<zmoylan-pi> professor moriarity on the holodeck creating a ship in the bottle was good
<diddledan> lol. modern download speeds scare me - I would hate to have MartijnVdS' connection
<diddledan> 500ish KByte per second ftw
 * daftykins sees diddledan screeching at progress bars
 * zmoylan-pi remembers 300baud modems...
<daftykins> "what's that sound?" - "just dan downloading again"
<diddledan> daftykins, I need to recreate the modem noise
<shauno> "everybody look what's going down"
<daftykins> shauno: Voyager? Mayo?
<shauno> you gave up before that?
<daftykins> didn't realise they had a condiment surplus episode
<daftykins> i've actually not done a marathon of Voyager
<zmoylan-pi> booooooo boooooooop, boooooooooooooooooooo booooop, boooblelelelelelelelele /favourite zx spectrum game...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, that's dialup, too
<zmoylan-pi> very different sound.
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> dial up is eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, eeeeeeeee,eeeeeee, eeeeeeeeeeeeepppppp
<zmoylan-pi> i often had to listen to the connections to work out why they weren't talking to each other... :-)
<daftykins> no that's Celine Dion
<diddledan> dear god man
<diddledan> that's evil
<diddledan> daftykins, zmoylan-pi had to listen to celine dion to work out why they weren't talking to each other?!
<daftykins> horrible, horrible job :(
 * diddledan puts titanic theme on spotify
<shauno> kinda obligatory at this point, http://www.windytan.com/2012/11/the-sound-of-dialup-pictured.html
<zmoylan-pi> it was either that or install windows 95 from floppies
<shauno> heh, I've done that!  but only once
<shauno> (and it's not as bad as it sounds.  it's a lot less disks than you'd expect)
<diddledan> shauno, I wonder if that phone number still exists?
<zmoylan-pi> i did it twice.  and then i made it my lifes mission to learn how to install a cd rom on every computer known to humankind
<diddledan> CDROMs running of the soundcard were evil
<diddledan> off*
<diddledan> luckily I missed those mostly
<daftykins> from what i understand this still happens on xDSL right, we just don't hear it since the tech uses inaudible tones typically?
<zmoylan-pi> running them off weird propietary parallel ports wasn't fun either but if that was the only way to not have to swap floppies...
<daftykins> the 25 floppies we had for some early office version were pretty painful
<diddledan> and. soundcards pre Plug-n-Play with jumper switches to select IRQs
<daftykins> one in the set required you to partially hold the eject button as it read, that was the only way it worked 0o
 * daftykins bows to the APIC
<diddledan> Asia Pacific Internet Coalition ftw
<zmoylan-pi> my 486 had extra serial cards, parallel, modem, scanner, network AND soundcard inside it.  when you unscrewed the lid it would pop off. my boss looked inside once when in a hurry and just said 'i'll let zmoylan-pi do it monday'
<diddledan> I like how he used your handle :-p
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> </troll>
<daftykins> yeah that would've been an odd interview
<zmoylan-pi> the trick was to share the dma of the devices that you would never use at the same time.  soundcard and parallel and scanner
<shauno> who in their right mind would use an internal modem?!
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> and do a cold boot after using one of them
<daftykins> i loved my little Lasat Safire
<diddledan> internal modems are mostly winmodems IIRC?
<zmoylan-pi> they were ast pcs. they used the worst uart chip known to human kind which made speeds over 19200 impossible
<zmoylan-pi> they were internal usr sportster modems.  really solid modems
<daftykins> http://cache.osta.ee/iv2/auctions/1_1_19653645.jpg
<daftykins> i had the model on the right, but 56k
<diddledan> I've still got a zoom 56k modem somewhere in here
<zmoylan-pi> oooh, had a zoom.  good modem but not as good as the usr's
<shauno> I honestly can't remember what I had.  I just asked for the cheapest modem they had that used a serial cable
<daftykins> for months on our Pentium 1 'dan' PC, we only had the 9 pin serial cable so we had to pick between modem or mouse
<daftykins> eventually the old man brought home a 25 to 9 pin converter
<shauno> that'd be terrible.  no null-modem Doom games?!
<daftykins> well, said adapter enabled that too :>
<zmoylan-pi> we had pcs connected via novell network for doom
<shauno> well aren't you fancy (/old)
<zmoylan-pi> used to play in the office 3 against me.  i still won
<diddledan> I played doom on a 10Mbit/s ethernet hub
<daftykins> ;]
<diddledan> (cat5!)
<daftykins> :o
<zmoylan-pi> we were on coax
<daftykins> fancy pants
<daftykins> yeah i had coax at home too :(
<daftykins> with the Arnie terminators
<zmoylan-pi> coax gave us little grief.  we were just careful i guess
<daftykins> i think i was just too young to understand networking at the time
<diddledan> both coax and hub would have suffered the same issue with collision
<daftykins> i don't even know what would've provided the IP addressing, i don't recall ever entering any for the first couple of years
<diddledan> my hub had a little led to show collisions
<diddledan> it flashed a LOT
<daftykins> i remember those yeah :D
<zmoylan-pi> though my favourite 'networked' game was f29 retaliator.  connect 2 pcs with laplink cable for 2 players to play against each other
<shauno> we used to play a combat sim too.  it was f-something, but I think Raptor?
<zmoylan-pi> i used to humilate my bosses on that game. shooting them down with missiles that wouldn't lock onto their aircraft.
<daftykins> f-22?
<zmoylan-pi> f29 retaliator is the one
<daftykins> why no lock on?
<shauno> yup, 22 it is, http://www.mobygames.com/game/f-22-raptor
<daftykins> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> then his on board computer would warn him.  whereas a really slow air to ground missile would barely crawl towards them before blowing them out of the sky.  much more difficult.  much more fun
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwJmlWdmP2M f29
<shauno> that was quite fun for multiplayer.  mostly because we played at a friends house, with the PCs in two different rooms.  so you'd be hurling expletives at each other across the house
<shauno> had a stealth bomber one on the amiga too, but that didn't age well, at all
<shauno> in unrelated news, my Pi still hasn't arrived :(  I was really hoping it'd make it before the weekend
<daftykins> v2?
<zmoylan-pi> it's out there, lonely and os-less
<shauno> yeah
<diddledan> mine came today
<shauno> it seems post to ireland still involves 7 weeks at sea
<diddledan> shauno, it must be coming from britain, then?
<shauno> I hope so
<daftykins> the Ireland post ship must be captain'd by that no legs guy from Blackadder
<daftykins> "ye have a woman's purse!"
<daftykins> +m'lord
<zmoylan-pi> 5 working days gets from most of uk mainland to dublin or vice versa
<zmoylan-pi> if you live outside the pale however...
<shauno> yeah.  I don't hate myself to live in dublin.  I'm off in the wilds somewhere
<diddledan> don't forget shauno 's address doesn't exist
<daftykins> ^
<diddledan> or was that your place of work?
<zmoylan-pi> well places in ireland don't need an address. it's more of a challenge for the postmen that way
<shauno> it exists sometimes :)  that one that was addressed to Cork got here
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> well it would
<shauno> it's just not in whatever database Tesco use :/
<zmoylan-pi> ah well sassenachs like tescos wouldn't understand
<diddledan> who was it mentioned gpg earlier? http://go.bwlh.at/1ukaQmM
<diddledan> that's a bad link
<diddledan> linux.com is evil aggregator
<diddledan> try this one: http://go.bwlh.at/1ukb8di
<shauno> I still think that's all a bit weird
<daftykins> yay for a result \o/
<diddledan> I guess the guy can go on holiday now?
<diddledan> maybe buy a new car?
<diddledan> and some nice jewellery
<daftykins> don't be silly, nobody misappropriates funds!
<diddledan> really?
<diddledan> how does italy be italy then?
<zmoylan-pi> he's german, he'd turn him self in afterwards if he did
<shauno> they can't help it, proximity to Greece
 * daftykins shivers
<diddledan> http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/thehod007/StarTrek.gif
<diddledan> funny
<daftykins> they really should've gone with matte screens
<shauno> I like glossy screens :(
<daftykins> just joking at how it's used to show the actor :D
<shauno> exactly.  how else would I know when it's time to shave?
<diddledan> shauno, it's never that time
<shauno> oh it is.  I don't grow man-beards.  I grow teenager-beards.  plural.  3 disconnected teenager-beards.
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> pics!
<shauno> lolno
<daftykins> don't make me link you to more shingles snaps...
<daftykins> i'll do it!
<shauno> I know you will.  But I'm under no obligation to click :)
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> yeah, he'll label it as something you do want to click tho
<diddledan> i.e. not shingles-omg-evil.jpg
<diddledan> more like l00k-bewbies.jpg
<diddledan> speaking of which, why do ebay spammers think that putting "l00k" on their listing will make you click on it?
<shauno> newb.  its l@@k!
<diddledan> yeah, that too
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> I suppose they use @ because that makes it look like eyes
<diddledan> bashrc, quit quitting!
<daftykins> these dialup impressionists are rather tiresome
<diddledan> I just don't get why people don't leave their connection on 24/7
<bashrc> heh
<diddledan> bouncers or irssi-proxy-like things are great
<bashrc> I think the internet connection at work was dodgy
<shauno> reminds me, o2 broke my dongle :(  no internets at work :(
<diddledan> I hate breaking my dongle - it's painful
<daftykins> shauno: O2 broke it? 0o
<daftykins> diddledan: don't worry, you don't use it :)
<diddledan> true
<shauno> yeah.  they changed my contract, and now it won't connect.  I called them, and they told me to go get a new sim card
<shauno> just a bit grrr.  if they'd told me they were going to break my internets, I would have told them to leave it alone
<daftykins> how rude
<daftykins> ugh this wind is making my uninsulated roofspace bedroom super cold
<daftykins> -1 deg C windchill!
<shauno> alas poor Chris, I barely knew you
<diddledan> wtf?
<daftykins> ZOMBIE!
<diddledan> owner died?!
<daftykins> bit extreme isn't it
<diddledan> I like how there's a number for such an instance
<daftykins> i wonder what 129 and 131 are
<diddledan> 131 is armageddon?
<shauno> 131 is E_NONEXTKIN
<shauno> I swear these updates are getting bigger.  1.3GB for a point release?
<diddledan> what you updating?
<shauno> osx, again
<diddledan> 10.10.2?
<shauno> 10.10.3.  yay.
<diddledan> aah 3
<diddledan> I only got that today under non-disclosure?
<diddledan> i.e. I'm not allowed to tell you what's in it - I don't think it prevents me telling you that I got it
<shauno> sure you are :)
<shauno> you don't actually read the agreements, do you :)
<diddledan> lol, well, no I don't
<diddledan> which begs the question as to how legally binding they are if I haven't read it
<shauno> Information that otherwise would be deemed Confidential Information but (a) is generally and legitimately available to the public through no fault or breach of yours [b,c,d,e] will not be considered Confidential Information under this Agreement
<shauno> once it's on teh internuts, it's no longer your problem :)
<diddledan> hmm, so if I let slip in an anonymous post then I can attribute a non-anonymous post?
<shauno> luckily there's enough sites salivating over apple's every nose twitch, I've never had to consider that
<shauno> hm, I may have to purchase fire tonight
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> how does one purchase fire?
<shauno> in the shop :)
<diddledan> really? http://www.macrumors.com/2015/02/06/oral-b-pro-smart-toothbrush-review/
<zmoylan-pi> it's the absolute tooth
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, I think that comment received a brush-off
<shauno> lol what the
<shauno> they seem to be missing the most important feature.  cranky the music up because I can't hear it when the damned thing is vibrating my skull
<diddledan> http://www.macrumors.com/2015/01/28/marissa-mayer-safari-yahoo/ <-- I thought yahoo was just a front-end to bing
<ali1234> they keep switching
<shauno> I'm pretty sure they can boil that down to "yahoo would love it if anyone still used it"
<shauno> they're one of those companies, like AOL, where you just have to stare at them, and wonder how on earth they still exist
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yahoo are propped-up entirely by flickr
<diddledan> and even that leg is a bit wonky these days
<shauno> it is.  especially now that they break your account if you don't login enough
<diddledan> oh?
<diddledan> I've not logged-in in years so I wonder what they've done to me
<shauno> I think it's 6 months, they'll expire your account for inactivity
<diddledan> do they delete your photos?
<shauno> I don't believe so
<shauno> I was reading about someone who was annoyed because he couldn't login to download his own
<shauno> so I assume
<shauno> (lots of assume here, flickr is my only exposure to yahoo.  because it's 2015)
<diddledan> I still can't get kodi into my head instead of xbmc
<shauno> then symlink it and move on with life :)
<diddledan> unfortunately my brain doesn't support symlinks
<diddledan> it's got an old-school filesystem
<shauno> I believe there's a fix for that
<shauno> it probably involves a fine thread, and railroad ties
<m0nkey_> Today is one of them days I'm so happy I'm not putting up with the family drama back in England.
<mapp> the americans is a pretty good series
<mapp> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-07
<mapp> hi all
<mapp> daftykins the pi2 being able to run win10 is cool
<daftykins> it probably won't be the win10 you expect
<mapp> hm
<daftykins> think i read something about the idea it'll be like Windows RT
<mapp> ah
<mapp> whats the RT stand for..not realtime;D
<mapp> pi2 can run ubuntu too?
<daftykins> no idea. just doesn't run standard apps i think
<daftykins> it'll be a compatible ARM version this time yeah
<daftykins> #ubuntu-arm
<mapp> which is albeit same as normal ubuntu no?>
<mapp> just diff arch?
<daftykins> yeah, ARM
<daftykins> first Pi was based on a broadcom SoC that was v6 API based i think, so it was no-go - whereas the 2 is v7 based
<mapp> be cool running ubuntu on a pi
<mapp> you gonna try it?
<daftykins> i don't own one
<daftykins> i can spin up any little machines i want as VMs atop my file server :)
<daftykins> that already runs 24x7
<mapp> i jist think its neat considering how small the pi is
<mapp> :D
<daftykins> and how reliable... oh wait
<daftykins> :)
<mapp> pffft
<daftykins> hahaha
<mapp> only 1 of them..others always good
<mapp> nd even the one that acts strange..my openVPN server runs stable
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<mapp> hi;]
<penguin42>  [ho
<zmoylan-pi> diddly oh
<popey> evening
 * zmoylan-pi peeks outsides and confirms it is indeed evening...
<shauno> hm.  it's dark and grey here.  which really only tells me it's not july yet
<zmoylan-pi> you live in ireland... it can be dark and grey at any time. :-)
<MooDoo> evening all
<brobostigon> evening MooDoo
<daftykins> http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/05/russian-stop-a-douchebag-movement-video/
<daftykins> wow, can't get much of a break as a pedestrian over there
<zmoylan-pi> 50,000 dashcams can't be wrong
<daftykins> that's almost the population of Guernsey
<zmoylan-pi> sheep or humans?
<daftykins> i don't think we're all that big for sheep, cows we're famous for :)
<daftykins> heard of the Guernsey Gold?
<shauno> I honestly have no mental picture how big most the channel islands are.  I guess I just picture french-er versions of the isle of wight
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> IoW is pretty big compared to us, i think it's around 3x the size of my island
<daftykins> 26 square miles i think for mine 0o
<shauno> (that said I do love the isle of wight.  although I'm pro-tunnel, so most the caulkheads would want to hang me)
<zmoylan-pi> cows are quite popular on aran islands in ireland.  after a year starving on near barren rock you bring them to mainland and they eat themselves stupid
<daftykins> what's pro tunnel?
<zmoylan-pi> they want to link island to mainland via tunnel?
<shauno> some do, some don't
<daftykins> in a local news program from the BBC i caught the other day, Jersey is claiming a tourism drop of 60% i think they said
<shauno> I think it'd be a fantastic idea, because people can actually go get jobs on the mainland instead of all leaving once they leave school
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> that's the biggest problem about the islands really
<shauno> but some of the more insular folk really distrust the mainland
<daftykins> e.g. here the government subsidises students going to Uni, then they leave!
<daftykins> the UK gov is always trying to interfere with us, that's for sure
<shauno> from what I"ve read, it seems to be old people genuinely believing that there's no drugs on the island, and dealers haven't figure out how the ferry works
<daftykins> lol
<zmoylan-pi> what they don't grow grass on the island?
<shauno> I actually knew an old lady in newport that grew weed in the greenhouse.  but had no idea what it was
<shauno> apparently the whole thing ended up with dead rabbits
<daftykins> O_O
<zmoylan-pi> dead happy rabbits...
<daftykins> first rabbits in space
<shauno> the details seem to vary from one family member to the next.  some suspect uncle rod was growing them there, others don't believe it ..
<zmoylan-pi> and cats, foxes and dogs with serious munchies
<MooDoo> lots of people don't realise what they are growing lol
<daftykins> preliminary synthetic benchmark data, testing DirectX 12's new optimisations for reducing CPU bottlenecks in graphics with Windows 10 and nvidia / AMD graphics cards: http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph8962/71450.png
<daftykins> a GTX 980 improves from 26fps under DirectX 11, versus 67fps with 12
 * hamitron just now needs the GTX 980
 * MartijnVdS has a R9 290
<moreati> gawd bless get_iplayer
<popey> yes indeedy!
<directhex> mono for ARM is a real thing now. packages for debian/ubuntu arm!
<popey> Sweet!
<shauno> hm.  maybe one day unity?  KSP on the pi ;)
<daftykins> it stopped working for me the other day 0o
<daftykins> couldn't even fetch a program list with the latest build
<daftykins> would someone mind testing the speed they can pull from my home hosting, briefly?
<daftykins> i shall PM a link if anyone is willing :)
<moreati> daftykins: sure
<daftykins> thanks!
<daftykins> seems our pals across the pond are getting 10% my potential today 0o
<directhex> shauno: that's Complicated(tm)
<shauno> ;)
<shauno> I was mostly kidding anyway, KSP brings my laptop to its knees, so the pi .. may need a few more revisions
<shauno> I just realised I accidentally bought decaf coffee
<daftykins> ooh-err
<zmoylan-pi> you'll need to brew it all at once and distill it to remove the water till you can get 1 cup with enough belt to keep you going :-)
<shauno> I think maybe I'll just be really antisocial and grind some beans instead
<shauno> and use this stuff to poison someone at work
<penguin42> shauno: Give it to your colleagues just before a meeting that you need to win, erm you know....
<shauno> I don't get invited to meetings anymore :(
<penguin42> hehe you also point out the really obvious dumb things everyone else is saying?
<shauno> I have a small issue with bluntness
<penguin42> nod
<shauno> and our product manager keeps trying to "blind us with technobabble", but lacks the babble
<penguin42> shauno: It's when you can identify specific dilberts for each meeting that you know you're in trouble
<shauno> plus I used to work alongside him on another project, so I treat him a lot more 'familiar' than his position expects
<shauno> it's all just a really bad combination, really
<shauno> so we have some odd truce going on, where I join in his bi-weekly calls with india, in return for staying out of the rest of his meetings
<penguin42> haha
<shauno> the sad thing is I think I'm meant to be trying to ally with him
<shauno> because I want redundancy, and I think his ship is sinking
<shauno> it's all weird :)
<daftykins> shauno: erk, as in you're not allowed to provide input, but you're allowed to help him translate the foreign meetings?
<shauno> no no no.  I want to prevent him translating such meetings
<shauno> having him translate nerd->manager->nerd is incredibly frustrating, because he has absolutely no idea what's he's talking about
<shauno> eg, I found out our last 5 "security updates" were actually 5 failed attempts at the same update
<daftykins> >_<
<shauno> small details that are completely missed when they've been translated to waffle and back
<daftykins> :D
 * penguin42 wonders if shauno works for a tla
<daftykins> "the website is down" -> "the customer facing portion of the product has suffered a misalignment"
<daftykins> sorry, i tried my best from thinking for 20 seconds but i just can't speak management
<shauno> that would actually be an improvement
<shauno> this is something I've been begging for.  at the moment our system is completely monolithic
<shauno> if one portion has an issue, the whole thing falls over
<daftykins> :(
<shauno> but yeah.  coughing loudly whenever he's completely wrong seems to be my main role lately.  it's not cool
<shauno> but it does get me out of almost all meetings :)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-08
<shauno> heh, the gay marriage referendum in slovakia failed spectacularly.  21% turnout.
<daftykins> o0
<shauno> it's a weird one.  it's already banned, but they're trying to "ban it harder"
<shauno> but they require >50% turnout for any referendum to be valid, so "meh" almost always wins
<daftykins> oh wow, i was thinking it was support of gay marriage being voted for
<shauno> way off, sadly.  today was optimstic in the sense of "not taking a step backwards"
<shauno> currently it's banned by an act of parliament, so the ban can be repealed with "just" an act of parliament
<shauno> today they tried to banned it "further" by referendum, so it'd require another referendum to repeal
<shauno> luckily it seems ~80% of people think that's just as silly as it sounds
<shauno> (or just don't care.  with this minimum turnout jazz, "don't care" is quite powerful)
<daftykins> seems really odd to ban others the same misery as hetero couples :)
<shauno> heh
<shauno> I just don't think it's kosher to enforce your religious views on anyone else.  otherwise, I'm quite capable of inventing my own religion.  and I can guarantee some pretty whacky views.
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> but I think it's mostly an important vote for them because it's finally shown that the very vocal 'religous right' aren't quite as big as their volume implies
<daftykins> that's true
<ali1234> what was the vote each way?
<shauno> hugely 'yes', 94.5%
<shauno> it seems to hang more on the turnout than anything else.  if you want the status quo, you don't show up
<shauno> eg, no-one campains for 'vote no'.  they actually tell you to just ignore it
<shauno> (I mean, if 30% vote yes, 20% vote no, and 50% don't show up, they've hit quorum because 50% showed up, so 'yes' win.  if 30% vote yes and 70% ignore it, the status quo wins)
<shauno> so showing up and voting no makes it easier for yes to win  lol
<shauno> but it is an incredibly apathetic system.  I believing entering the EU is the only referendum that ever hit quorum
<penguin42> was that so that they could elect a whole bunch of people that meant they could do a load of things without asking for referendums again?
<shauno> their system's kinda the opposite of the irish system.  they can ask for a referendum on pretty much anything, as long as they can get 350,000 signatures on a petition
<penguin42> from what size population?
<shauno> we get them only when they really have to - anything that changes the constitution requires one
<shauno> a bit over 5 million I think
<penguin42> 350k out of 5m is quite a high chunk
<shauno> yeah.  it seems quite realistic though.  if you can't get <10% of the population to ask for it, you've little chance of getting >50% to vote for it
<penguin42> yeh
<shauno> I just think it's interesting watching a completely different system at work
<shauno> kinda like watching US elections.  staring at them thinking "what on earth are you doing" is more interesting than the actual result
<shauno> so watching political campaigns built around "ignore it and it'll go away" gives me the same puzzled stare
<shauno> "don't vote for me!" is quite a mind-bending concept
<daftykins> oh that's too amusing not to share, installing my windows 10 VM's latest updates has broken the mouse :D
<penguin42> meh overrated - you've got a touchscreen....
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> nah only 8 was foolishly designed for that
<daftykins> it's probably just vmware, mind you
<daftykins> waddaya know, a reboot fixed it! :D
<mapp> hey all
<daftykins> hey
<daftykins> i don't think we're in any danger, but don't let it ever be said that i'm intelligent
<daftykins> i swear the bed sheet i just put on my duvet was from some other universe
<daftykins> 4D perhaps
<daftykins> it was probably what killed Escher
<mapp> heh
<mapp> :)
<mapp> debating what tv to watch;D
<mapp> Allegiance it is
<mapp> sounded ok and seems ok so far
<directhex> moop
<directhex> isn't it like crazy late in .uk ?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> 4am
<mapp> im in gib;p so EVEN later
<mapp> +1
<mapp> 402am in uk
<mapp> where are you directhex
<directhex> boston
<mapp> oh
<mapp> holiday?
<directhex> work
<directhex> flying back tomorrow. maybe
<mapp> where u fly to? long flight?
<mapp> ve only flown to europe:)
<daftykins> bawston
<daftykins> i've been there!
<daftykins> i went on a tour
<mapp> nice
<directhex> i think i'm going to sleep now. that seems wise.
<daftykins> :)
<mapp> im gonna watch an ep of mysteries of laura
<mapp> early for u isnt it daftykins
<mapp> :)
<daftykins> i'm trying to maximise the last of my 20s
<daftykins> by... sitting on IRC at almost 5am ;_;
<mapp> :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
<MartijnVdS> hey popey
<SuperEngineer> now that Open Reach has [at last] kindly deemed to repair tha damage to line out they caused... guess I'd better say "hi" as well ;)
<popey> haha http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=99042
<popey> you can make a rpi2 reboot by taking a photo of it :)
<MartijnVdS> oops
<zmoylan-pi> not a week for it to be in the limelight :-)
<moreati> at least you can apply a patch to fix the problem
<andyc> Hi.  In ubuntu is there some mechanism to trigger a backup when I plug in the ethernet to my laptop on my home network.  I suspect this will require me to write some scripts but I'd like to avoid that if there is a way to do this already.
<SuperEngineer> Just treated the firm's PDA with the full respect it deserves: cleaned the screen... with a [soft] *scourer*.
<SuperEngineer> Oh it felt so, so good!  :D
<popey> andyc: i kinda do that
<popey> andyc: but I just have a cron job on my server at home which rsyncs from my laptop. If the laptop isn't there it fails.
<andyc> popey, That's not a bad solution.  I've just read I can put some bash in /etc/network/if-up.d/ so I might have a play with that first
<andyc> cheers
<popey> good idea
<penguin42> this stuff about the Raspberry Pi2 being sensitive to bright light is funny
<popey> yeah
<prefix> hey guys :)
<prefix> Anyone own here a BT account ?
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<penguin42> hey
<MooDoo> how are you penguin42 ?
<MooDoo> davmor2: kvm/ubuntu working fine so far, not tried glusterfs yet
<penguin42> MooDoo: Good good
<MooDoo> excellent
<diddledan> morning
<shauno> kinda
<penguin42> MooDoo: What are you trying to do with kvm ?
<diddledan> better
<zmoylan-pi> a battered sausage and chips...
<shauno> ali1234: random, just noticed you on the front page @ hackernews
<shauno> (rpi/teletext; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9017719 )
<ali1234> what's hackernews?
<zmoylan-pi> https://news.ycombinator.com/
<ali1234> it looks like reddit if reddit had no users?
<penguin42> ali1234: Very nice :-)
<shauno> I wouldn't say no users, just a slightly different audience
<ali1234> i could use some help with reverse engineering the display controller registers actually
<ali1234> also demo makes modern tvs crash apparently
<penguin42> ali1234: File under security bugs on modern tvs :-)
<SuperEngineer> que?
<diddledan> queueueue?
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<diddledan> us brits love our queues :-p
<SuperEngineer> we also like to sub "us" for "we" sometimes :D
<diddledan> that us do
<SuperEngineer> you win!
<diddledan> us likes to mix plural with singular, too.
<SuperEngineer> [sorry about the "you win" - cursor on wrong app!
<diddledan> yeah right
 * SuperEngineer sits here sniggering  - sorry, us SuperEngineers sit here sniggering
<popey> ahayzen: have you had terrible opengl performance since updating your kernel?>
<popey> I upgraded to vivid and my machine freezes all the time in games
<ahayzen> popey, ewww, 3.19 on utopic has been fine for me so far, which games are you playing?
<popey> openspades under wine
<popey> I'm on 3.18
<popey> vivid
<ahayzen> wine :P
<popey> worked fine in utopic :(
<ahayzen> try 3.19 aha
<popey> hm
<popey> can't, then the sdk is busted
<ahayzen> isn't that supposed to be released soon anyway?
<popey> what? 3.19?
<ahayzen> yeah
<popey> dunno.
<ahayzen> popey, according the phoronix http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-3.19-Kernel-Features "If all goes according to plan the Linux 3.19 kernel will be released by the end of today. "
<ahayzen> popey, so assume vivid will be jumping soon? maybe that'll fix it but i haven't noticed any opengl issues thus far
<popey> hmmm
<popey> my laptop crawls
<popey> i should benchmark it with pts
<popey> :)
<popey> then boot back to older utopic kernel to see if it's any better
<ahayzen> yeah
 * popey installs
<ahayzen> popey, top gear bbl o/
<popey> \o/
<shauno> diddledan: ping!
<shauno> diddledan: 23:10  http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/#.VNfJJiDF8eZ
<MooDoo> evening all
<daftykins> evening o/
<MooDoo> hows it going daftykins ?
<daftykins> mmm not too bad ta, stocked up on some beers for the night, vacuumed the house some more... now settling in :)
<daftykins> and yourself?
<MooDoo> brill thanks, just had a total ubuntu server geek out lol
<daftykins> ooh how so?
<daftykins> set one up?
<MooDoo> 2 identical ubuntu servers, KVM running 5 vms, syncing the disks to a second server using glusterfs :D
<MooDoo> redundancy :D
<daftykins> :o
<MooDoo> yeah i'm sad on a sunday night lol
<daftykins> are all the same VMs able to fire up on the backup automatically?
<MooDoo> that's the next project, I have a spare server, that i'll setup as a storage device so I can look into auto failover :D
<MooDoo> I'm getting there
<MooDoo> slight overkill for a home setup hee hee
<daftykins> the fun stuff often is :)
<MooDoo> :)
<daftykins> i need to get around to upgrading these 10.04.4 VMs i run, soon - before the April chop
<MooDoo> slightly quicker to setup than on centos.
<daftykins> one just runs irssi, the other is a little web server
<MooDoo> I'm using latest LTS, always stick with LTS versions
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> pretty scary i've been on these for 5 years
<daftykins> running the -72 kernel now, oy vey that's a lot of updates
<shauno> (5 mins 'till that Falcon launch)
<shauno> ... or not.
<daftykins> but it's not the Millennium?
<shauno> I just wanna see them try to land it again.  but it's aborted today
<MooDoo> again?   sigh
<daftykins> d'aww
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-08
<knightwise> morning peeps
<zmoylan-pi> be careful out there. it's a monday...
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning MooDoo
<knightwise> LIstening to the Mr Robot soundtrack on Youtube
<knightwise> quite good actually :)
<MooDoo> yeah i've been listening to an ESA playlist on spotify, rather good
<knightwise> ESA  ?
<zmoylan-pi> different european accents saying 10... 9... 8... :-)
<diplo> Moaning all
 * zmoylan-pi waits for porridge to stop spinning in microwave...
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> mornng davmor2 :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: how am ya me owld mucka?
<popey> Morning
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah good thanks :) smiling after the superbowl :)
<davmor2> You lost again
<MooDoo> nope won this time
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Chinese New Year! ð
<zmoylan-pi> saw chinese lanterns for sale over the weekend.  at least the weather at the moment will prevent their use...
<MooDoo> good any one that uses them needs a kicking
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<awilkins> Yo popey, why did you prefer irssi to Hexchat?
<awilkins> (as someone who's used both and currently uses Hexchat)
<MooDoo> awilkins: I use irssi as i'm in a ssh session to my server at home :D
<awilkins> MooDoo, Heh, yeah, I used to run irssi in a session on my router but it made my router less stable
<zmoylan-pi> i connect via ssh to rasp pi running irssi sharing screen with newsbeuter in tmux
<awilkins> I don't mind irssi at all but I'm not sure what positive advantages it offers over a GUI client besides the session persistence
<zmoylan-pi> i <3 tmux
 * awilkins <3 byobu
<awilkins> (which is just a wrapper on tmux)
<zmoylan-pi> i could run a gui irc client on the pi and remote desktop to it... but irssi does it just as well for me
<zmoylan-pi> i might retry that when i finally get my rasp pi 2 going to replace the earlier rasp pi b
<awilkins> I love the Pi2
<awilkins> Pi2 in a FLIRC case is a gorgeous little server
<zmoylan-pi> but there's a little part of me reluctant to replace the rasp pi b as it just keeps doing it's job on a 4gb card since i got it
<awilkins> Pi2 is noticably snappier for the more CPu hungry stuff
<awilkins> Like running Ruby-on-Rails websites
<awilkins> (and installing Ruby in the first place, rbenv is hands down the best way to install Ruby stuff I know of but it involves compiling things a lot)
<zmoylan-pi> i do intend at some point intend to imbed a small screen, rasp pi and battery in keyboard and use it as console apps only (distraction free) laptop
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksJ6QP8BYn0 cheeky one for the Chinese newyear now you are back here :)
<diddledan> davmor2: have you _ever_ failed to know the perfect tune?
<davmor2> diddledan: not really failed bastardised and cheated maybe :) You know like using Jasper Carrott for Carrot Cake day :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> sometimes the cheated ones are more fun tho :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: indeed, I mean todays is a bit of a cheat but I could of gone with, Eye of the tiger, rabbit, who let the dogs out, puff the magic dragon.... and covered the whole zodiac :)
 * davmor2 goes away to look up the rest
<davmor2> anaconda (Nicki minaj), the ox (the who), dark horse (Katy Perry), rooster (alice in chains), Tell me while I don't like mondays (Boomtown rats, was the first thing that jumped to mind), pigs (pink floyd), and finally Paddy McGinty's goat (val dunican? pretty sure that is spelt wrong):D
<davmor2> diddledan: ^ there you go every chinese new year covered :)
<diddledan> https://boingboing.net/2016/02/07/usborne-releases-free-pdfs-of.html
<awilkins> I loved those books
<awilkins> Always had one or more of them checked out of the library
 * zmoylan-pi has just installed qb64 on linux this morning.  might be time to try those old basic manuals again... :-)
<diddledan> qb64?
<zmoylan-pi> quick basic for 64bit systems... http://www.qb64.net/
<zmoylan-pi> will have to hunt out gorrila.bas and nibbles.bas to give them a spin... :-)
<diddledan> is it the original quickbasic source that's been updated and recompiled or a clean-room implementation of the quickbasic syntax?
<zmoylan-pi> clean-room...
<diddledan> oh, hang on, I have those here somewhere
<diddledan> will have to fish through many disks but I know I've got them
 * zmoylan-pi pictures crying diddledan with 5.25" floppy with dos 5 install files... :-P
<diddledan> DOS3!
<diddledan> 3.22
<zmoylan-pi> dos3 had gwbasic
<zmoylan-pi> gorilla and nibbles came with dos 5 iirc
<diddledan> that may be true but I know I have copies
<zmoylan-pi> i was asked initially to write code in gw basic so i remember these little things... ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> thankfully we quickly dumped that idea and went with qbasic or qbx 4.5 to be exact
<zmoylan-pi> my bosses were coming from cpm environment and i was still using speccy at home so we had a lot to learn... :-)
<m0nkey_> any regex gurus here?
<Myrtti> fortunately I can nowadays quite happily say I'm not one since I've forgotten the little I knew quite well.
<m0nkey_> heh, this is kinda perl/regex
<m0nkey_> So, I've got a statement:   my $site = ($line =~ /\s+NOT processed/i)
<m0nkey_> What I'm trying to do is grab that \s and put it in a variable
<m0nkey_> Thing is, I got text just before it.. like this: 22 - YUL NOT processed
<m0nkey_> I want to grab just the 'YUL' part
<m0nkey_> But at the same time, look for the not processed
<diddledan> m0nkey_: $line =~ /([^\s])+\s+NOT Processed/i; $YUL = $1
<m0nkey_> danke
<m0nkey_> that appears to work
<diddledan> err, not quite right - the ) and + are backwards
<diddledan> ([^\s]+)
<m0nkey_> I spotted that :)
<diplo> Hey all, I know this is a linux channel but.... anyone know if a MAC would use ssl libraries on the system for email clients or built in?
<diddledan> diplo: how do you mean?
<diddledan> diplo: OS X comes with SSL built int
<diddledan> in*
<diddledan> diplo: but nothing is stopping random developers from shipping their own libraries
<diplo> In the case of say iMail ? won't connect to a server but say Thunderbird would
<popey> Well, TBird almost certainly ships own libs
<m0nkey_> BOOYAH!
<m0nkey_> thanks diddledan, code works perfectly now
<diddledan> yeah thunderbird will use NSS probably
<diplo> Would the clients use iMail specifically system ssl
<diplo> Ah ok I thought the same popey, was just googling about NSS but wanted to see if anyone knew about the MAC side
<m0nkey_> So, my print statement output: found an unprocessed item for YUL
<m0nkey_> I can now feed that into a snmp trap
<diplo> Running an old email server, customer doesn't want to upgrade... all works apart from iMail
<diplo> Or Mail :)
<diddledan> diplo: probably using insecure cuphers then
<diddledan> ciphers
<diddledan> SSL3 is dead now
<diddledan> long live TLS1
<diddledan> or better TLS1.2
<diplo> yeah but it works sporadically which is the thing that keeps fluming us, should work or not
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: want copies of these DOS5 disks? :-p
<diddledan> I couldn't find the .bas files elsewhere so I've imaged the DOS5 install disks
<popey> 0 7 * * * is 7am crontab isn't it?
 * popey thinks he is going mad
<diddledan> popey: I think so, yes
<diddledan> m h d m dow I think
<popey> wonder why mine starts at 15:00 then
<diddledan> odd
<popey> hmm, i was in LA a few weeks back which is 7am at 15pm here
<m0nkey_> diddledan, I'm going to put you on speed dial for regex now
<zmoylan-pi> 15pm... :-)
<popey> Oh jeez
<popey> I typed that and thought "wonder who will pick up on that"
<popey> well done!
<popey> :)
<zmoylan-pi> worked with a lot of security companies, i've seen every mismatch of 12-24 hour clocks known to mammal kind
<Seeker`> popey: 'going' mad? :P
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: may I pm you a link?
<zmoylan-pi> sure
<diddledan> there ya go :-p
<diddledan> 9KB for GORILLAS.BAS. and people moan about tomb raider being big!
<diddledan> of course that's when compressed - it'll eat a whole 29KB of your HDD space!
<zmoylan-pi> for effciency i always remember frontier elite ii which put a quarter of the galaxy on 1 720k floppy with loads of space for save games
<zmoylan-pi> hehe, nibbles runs too fast to play
<diddledan> lol
<popey> i used to write stuff in qbasic
<popey> was fun
<zmoylan-pi> but it does compile and run, qb64 has no interpreter
<popey> until i found pascal
<zmoylan-pi> which is a pretty great indicator of compatability with qbasic
<zmoylan-pi> http://imgur.com/qYVuDM0 screenshot of nibbles.bas
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> so if you need to run some old qbasic code then give qb64 a peek, might need modification for timing loops mind :-)
<diddledan> gorillas.bas seems not to like DEF FnRan (x) = INT(RND(1) * x) + 1
<diddledan> (line 105)
<zmoylan-pi> just got that far myself... :-(
<diddledan> it's the FnRan(x) bit I think
<diddledan> the line below which also uses DEF seems to be ok
<zmoylan-pi> yeah that seems odd, the num lock code can be eliminated i suspect...
<zmoylan-pi> looking at the help file to see def atm
<diddledan> aah "DEF FNname [(parameterList)] = expression" is listed in the currently not supported
<zmoylan-pi> trying to remember the keyboard shortcuts for .hlp files in qbasic... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> bummer
<zmoylan-pi> could rewrite that function if i had the time i suppose... but you couldn't distribute it of course...
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> ref for the unsupported: http://www.qb64.net/wiki/index.php/DEF_FN
<diddledan> and everything unsupported: http://www.qb64.net/wiki/index.php/Keywords_currently_not_supported_by_QB64
<zmoylan-pi> we avoided a lot of functions in qb as none of the other basics we used had them and occasionly we needed to run code in other basic variants... made for fun coding..
<diddledan> eep
<zmoylan-pi> open and environ are the 2 that would hinder most...
<zmoylan-pi> could get around environ using the old shell to screen and read the environment variable from the screen like i used to have to on some basics
<zmoylan-pi> but the open restrictions would prevent a few programmes working
<zmoylan-pi> opening lpt and writing directly to laser printer was always fun... :-)
 * pwaring opens issue 24 and is surprised that the 'what scripting language is right?' article is not a single word
<pwaring> PERL
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> issue 24 of...
<pwaring> oh blast
<pwaring> wrong window
<popey> linux voice I would imagine :)
<zmoylan-pi> perl 4 or 5?
<pwaring> Linux Voice :)
<pwaring> There's too much crossover between channel membership
<popey> just put my copy on the shelf of unopened magazines
<zmoylan-pi> would have to be 2 words...
<pwaring> zmoylan-pi: I notice Perl 6 wasn't an option :)
<zmoylan-pi> that's due next month i believe... :-P
<diddledan> perl6 is NEVER an option :-p
<zmoylan-pi> i've played with perl and written a few scripts in it.  it's nice and most reminds me of basic of all the 'modern' scripting languages but it irks me more than it should
<zmoylan-pi> python is better behaved but leaves me... unhappy...
<diddledan> vb.net :-p
 * zmoylan-pi winces at mention of the dot net abomination
<diddledan> c# isn't that bad
<zmoylan-pi> and i'll never know cause i'll never touch the filthy microsoft product... :-)
<zmoylan-pi>  /jackson
<pwaring> C# works on Linux
<pwaring> Quite well actually
<zmoylan-pi> it's still microsoft and i do not trust ms
 * pwaring considered it for a project, but Java has support for XML->PDF
<diddledan> run mono then :-p
<pwaring> I think parts of .NET are now open source
<directhex> correct.
<diddledan> yes .net core as they're calling it
<pwaring> https://github.com/microsoft
<diddledan> also asp.net core
<pwaring> loads of stuff there
<zmoylan-pi> the number of times i worked on code and came to a limitation of the language that was a bug in ms's implementation...
<directhex> see https://github.com/Microsoft/referencesource for the .net 4.6.1 source
<directhex> class library, anyway. not their JITter
<directhex> their new JITter is open source
<pwaring> I doubt MS are any better or worse than Oracle
<zmoylan-pi> i see c# on linux as a trojan horse by ms
<zmoylan-pi>  /paranoia
<pwaring> Better not run the kernel either then
<pwaring> Since MS have contributed patches
<zmoylan-pi> i know...
<zmoylan-pi> come on hurd... :-)
<directhex> if i could be bothered, i'd drag out my decade-old blog posts on this topic
<pwaring> directhex: You work for Xamarin, correct?
<pwaring> i.e. the 'Mono people'
<pwaring> Unless there is another directhex with equally well-versed knowledge of .NET :-)
<directhex> yes, for about 18 months
<zmoylan-pi> it's the mono apocalypse people!! ::pumps nerf shotgun:: :-P
<directhex> here we go, found my angry 2009 blog posts
<directhex> i was very angry a while ago with the whole mono conspiracy thing
<directhex> wasn't healthy. ended up in therapy.
<diddledan> eep
<directhex> not exaggerating
<directhex> for posterity, http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/124 and http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/271 are most relevant
<bashrc> I initially liked mono, but then the people who made it went in a totally proprietary direction and I lost confidence
<directhex> mmm
<zmoylan-pi> it does seem to be a thing with some projects, get it close to perfect and then go in random direction and give user base coniptions
<directhex> mono's image problem for desktop linux was insurmountable
<directhex> on linux these days it's mostly relevant for games
<bashrc> this is like 5+ years ago. I was at the tail end of a years long effort to extricate myself from the Windows sludge
<bashrc> I remember the main guy wrote a blog post about how much he disliked linux, and at that point the game was over. I started using other languages
<bashrc> I've also encountered xamarin more recently, and they were indeed doing completely proprietary stuff on proprietary OS's only
<bashrc> the mono/monodevelop system itself was ok, but it was on a bandwagon going in the opposite direction from mine
<diddledan> the problem for xamarin is how to monetise the implementation, and it makes sense to me to be targetting platforms that are difficult to use gpl software on by selling licenses to mono which allow their use on those platforms.
<diddledan> it's the age-old "how do I make money giving stuff away for free?"
<popey> \o/ Myrtti
<diddledan> ello daftykins
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> i just made a panoramic snap of my trip to Spain - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ls5se22f3nquctt/panoramic.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> hmm, that picture is very wide
<daftykins> :D
<Myrtti> popey: \o/ ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> what is this? a stick up? \o/
<Myrtti> something to that tune
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> silly Skype makes it into a dancing fellow
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> Microsoft have been riddling that program with bugs :)
<zmoylan-pi> it's the ms way
<diddledan> https://blog.adafruit.com/2016/02/08/the-open-source-furby-project/
<zmoylan-pi> look for code submitted from gchq uploading conversations... :-P
<Myrtti> oh. I suppose a hairy handbag wouldn't suffice
<Myrtti> I still haven't finished making it :-(
<daftykins> hairy!?
<m0nkey_> I'm not sure what's more scary, an actual Furby or an open Furby.
<Myrtti> daftykins: knitted and washing machine felted woollen handbag, LED lit from both inside and out.
<Myrtti> I've got all the kit bought but I just can't be arsed to start coding and sewing the circuits
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> a friend is visiting next weekend with a huge quilt she made me, be neat to see in person - it was hours of work!
<Myrtti> yeah, I realised my black handbag was a bit broken so I wanted a new one, but one thing they all have in common is a black liner that's darker than the place where J. Savile is spending his time atm, so lighter liner and LED's to combat that, so I can find my keys and lipbalm with a bit more ease
<zmoylan-pi> does it still count as a handbeg if the owner doesn't spend half an hour rooting for something she's sure is in it? :-)
<m0nkey_> I prefer the simple, put it in your pocket or wallet approach.
<bashrc> the handbag of doom
<zmoylan-pi> i carry a tonne of bit and bots in my back pack. i put all those in transparent fishing tackle box so i can see it before opening box
<daftykins> i seem to recall justifying some many-pocket'd trousers by dating a girl who would have me carry all her things
<m0nkey_> heh, in my laptop bag, i can never find anything.
<m0nkey_> Ugh, I'm not looking forward to this weekend. Low of -24C
<m0nkey_> Then followed by 2C and 20cm snow
<daftykins> wow!
<m0nkey_> Winter is screwed up this year. We see 20C difference in less than 24 hours
<m0nkey_> More damn shovelling the car out
<Myrtti> m0nkey_: but where would I put my purse, umbrella, passport, lipbalm, 22000mAh extra battery, keys, sunglasses and pills box?
<Myrtti> I can't fit that into my pockets, women's trouser pockets are always so tiny and phones just get bigger and bigger :-(
<m0nkey_> Wallet, keys, coat :)
<m0nkey_> Get bigger pockets
<zmoylan-pi> toolbox, a bit blurry, sorry... http://imgur.com/MoKbvKG
<diddledan> spectacles, *sticles, wallet and watch.
<m0nkey_> lol.
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqXZ9YoRD50
<zmoylan-pi> that's the reminder for blessing yourself...
<m0nkey_> Dawn French, Vicar of Dibley.
<diddledan> nope, nuns on the run
<zmoylan-pi> dave allen did it before that i think...
<m0nkey_> Heh, I think several have done it
<daftykins> i wouldn't think you want to be rocking around with a passport everywhere you go :>
<diddledan> unless you're a brit in france in which case you need to carry your passport because you don't have a national id card
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZTp1coqajQ
<daftykins> things have gotten so rough up there in England you have to have ID in case you get stopped at random now, is it? :)
<diddledan> I've lost my mo jo
<diddledan> "go outside and get me some serbert"
<diddledan> sherbert*
<Myrtti> daftykins: until recently I had no other means of proving my identity when shopping with credit/debit card, and in Finland they request to see an ID quite often for bigger purchases
<daftykins> ah right
<Myrtti> or when buying booze
<m0nkey_> If you want to say "She has a hot arse" in french, just say the letters L H O O Q
<zmoylan-pi> in ireland you can get special id from gardai (police) that covers buying booze
<Myrtti> still, at ripe age of 35 because I'm such a youngling looking dame
<diddledan> bad quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhuOIbg-hM0
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: sure, you can get that in Finland too. But I travelled a lot so I saved my pennies by just having a passport in my handbag
<m0nkey_> I'm going to have to watch Austin Powers again
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think they charge for it... passport costs a few shekels though
<diddledan> m0nkey_: good idea
<diddledan> m0nkey_: TO THE COUCH POTATO!
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: 55â¬ in Finland, passport (when applied and fetched in Finland 65â¬)
<m0nkey_> It's a hard life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jZiKFLL6MI
<m0nkey_> Right, back to work. I got a change request to do.
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QdPW8JrYzQ
<m0nkey_> heh, that was awesome
<daftykins> i feel this guy is a bit late to the party on this concept
<daftykins> diddledan: i smell another wonky disk
<diddledan> oh dear
<foobarry> has anybody ever had new batteries that didn't work?
<foobarry> i also opened another pack. didn't work either in the thing i tried
<foobarry> looking for something else to try them in
<foobarry> durloack
<foobarry> duralock
<foobarry> https://forums.logitech.com/t5/Mice-and-Pointing-Devices/Why-don-t-the-wireless-mice-M187-work-on-Duracel-AAA-batteries/td-p/1371088
<foobarry> hmm
<popey> nope
<popey> never had that
<daftykins> weird! i have plenty of rechargables these days from 7dayshop.com which used to be a local company
<daftykins> or rather, used to hold stock locally
<daftykins> odd reply there seems to be claiming a terminal doesn't make contact?
<brobostigon> ch5, new x-files, :)
<diddledan> daftykins: with LEDs?
<diddledan> "the positive led doesn't touch the mouses led" (paraphrase)
<diddledan> I'm curio what a positive LED is
<foobarry> typo , i think he means terminal
<foobarry> the device is in my sons room but i tried 9 of the new batteries
<foobarry> new ones have a green ring around -ve
<foobarry> mn2400
<foobarry> same model number is the ones that work, but still different style
<daftykins> willing to bet it's continuity
<diddledan> wonder if my break is chilly yet
<diddledan> bread*
<diddledan> been in oven
 * diddledan wanders off to find out
<foobarry> tried on a led lamp, they work
<foobarry> must have changed the shape slightly
<diddledan> https://motherboard.vice.com/read/hacker-publishes-personal-info-of-20000-fbi-agents <-- apparently the hacker wants to remain anonymous. who'dathunkit
<foobarry> also had some exp2018 duracell batteries leak in a torch
<foobarry> poor show
<MooDoo> evening all
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-09
<diddledan> doobleydo
<mapps> hi all;]
<Myrtti> time of day
<zmoylan-pi> $timeAppropriateWearinessOfSpirit
<Myrtti> dweaver: any hope for you fixing your client soon?
<zmoylan-pi> it'a nor irc if someone isn't bumping in and out... :-)
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning toasters !
<zmoylan-pi> mmmm, toast...
<Myrtti> I've become a butter snob and nothing but the Welsh butter from Tesco is good enough for me nowadays
<MooDoo> :)
<zmoylan-pi> welsh butter... now that i think of it i don't think i've ever seen butter from another country in irish supermarkets...
<Myrtti> there's scottish and english and god all sorts too
<zmoylan-pi> but leave space for pancake tuesday...
<Myrtti> Finland has two shrove days, so we had our pancakes already on Sunday
<zmoylan-pi> interesting... any reason for two?
<Myrtti> today could be a cream bun and pea-and-ham-soup day but I don't want pea soup
<zmoylan-pi> ham it is... :-P
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: I assume it's because of the last Sunday before lent or something
<Myrtti> I'd kill for an almond-paste and cream filled bun
<Myrtti> can't be arsed to make any myself so meh
<Myrtti> I'll just suffer in silence
<zmoylan-pi> maim for a wagon wheel filled with jam? :-)
<popey> Good morning ratfans.
<MooDoo> yeeeeeeeeeeeeh!
<MooDoo> or perhaps that should of been "ello roland"
 * zmoylan-pi releases box of kittens to take out rat in cutest way possible...
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: did you get the reference?
<zmoylan-pi> the 80s had some weird presenters... metal mickey...
 * zmoylan-pi wonders where big ted and little ted are now...
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yes in comparison with the 90's with Mr Blobby and Zig and Zag
<zmoylan-pi> well... we had zig and zag in 80s...
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> i loved metal mickey
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: well 87 I guess but most prevalent in the 90's
<zmoylan-pi> who kinda ruined their kids show by throwing a puppet from 70s called bosco around chanting 'bosco is a boll@x' when they didn't know camera was live...
<davmor2> I have this stuck in my head today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1voj6H8CHY
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Pancake Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> pancake tuesday \o/
<zmoylan-pi> when all the good catholics in ireland can be persecuted by evil people continuing their vices around them :-) :: me stocks up on chocolate ::
<popey> I got up nice and early and made pancakes for breakfast for the family
<popey> Stupidly didn't make enough for me
<zmoylan-pi> did you get at least 1 pancake stuck to the ceiling?
<popey> JamesTait: what is that unicode char?
<popey> U+1F64C ?
<popey> I doubt anyone but you has that in their font :)
<JamesTait> popey, I know at least three other people who do. ð
<JamesTait> It's a person holding their hands up in celebration.
<JamesTait> Or because they're about to be tazered.  Not sure which.
<JamesTait> I prefer the first.
<JamesTait> popey, fonts-symbola or ttf-ancient-fonts-symbola seem to be the packages to install.
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ apt-cache search fonts-symbola ttf-ancient-fonts-symbola
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$
<popey> not on our flagship LTS release :)
<JamesTait> Well, only a couple more months and our flagship LTS release will get with the times. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: 3 songs to sum up today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teaft0Kg-Ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnHyB9KzQvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UIB9Y4OFPs
<davmor2> you must understand I wasn't prepped for this day at all and went out of my way to find songs on pancakes that were fun and amazing I can't believe how fast his mouth goes popey this guy makes jcastro speed seem slow ;)
<MooDoo> https://play.spotify.com/user/europeanspaceagency play the tim Peake play list :)
<JamesTait> Not bad, davmor2. ð
<JamesTait> I'll try and pick something more challenging tomorrow.
<zmoylan-pi> ash wednesday...
<MooDoo> oh i do like the i3 window manager :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: ashes to ashes david bowie done next
<zmoylan-pi> i keep meaning to give that a go. i like the idea of a tiling window manager, every window in it's place...
<davmor2> MooDoo: why?
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'm a simple man simple requirements, guis suck :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: byobu
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes you keep telling me that :)_
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's cause it rocks :)
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: the status bar at the bottom of the byobu screen alone is worth it's wait in gold
<MooDoo> I'm happy with i3 at the moment, just getting it how I like it
<davmor2> MooDoo: http://byobu.co/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> davmor2: yea I've watched the video
<davmor2> MooDoo: mutlitasking at it's best :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah it looks good and I'll probably give it a try, just like i3 at the moment
<Myrtti> https://www.skrolli.fi/2016/02/sample-of-the-international-edition/
<awilkins> May as I ask if this aligns with other people's experience - ecryptfs is a really slow FS to host VM images on?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: very much so
<awilkins> Darn
<MartijnVdS> luks + lvm seems way faster somehow
<awilkins> Plus it's also very annoying in terms of filename sizes
<awilkins> It doesn't like filenames more than 144 chars
<MartijnVdS> really? never ran into that
<MartijnVdS> is that total or per component
<awilkins> Our sales team named some files with very long names and Syncthing had a mental because it couldn't write them
<awilkins> Per component
<davmor2> awilkins: the encryption decryption happens with each transaction on ecryptfs with luks+lvm it is unlocked to use it and then locked again on shutdown as I understand it
<awilkins> Doing an apt-get dist-upgrade on a fresh VM I just installed and it's PAINFUl
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: for LUKS every disk write/read is also encrypted/decrypted.. has to be
 * awilkins wonders if he can un-ecryptfs his home folder easily
<awilkins> Or maybe if I store my VMs outside my home folder it will be better
<popey> awilkins: also +1 on ecryptfs slowness with VMs
<MartijnVdS> but then your VMs will be unencrypted
<popey> I moved all my VMs to a folder off root
<MartijnVdS> On my new laptop, I just use LUKS.. but I can't be bothered to reinstall this one
<awilkins> Just reinstalled this desktop *sigh*
<popey> you can migrate
<popey> from ecryptfs to not
<popey> basically copy all the files out of the ecryptfs folder, move things about, remount, etc
<awilkins> Yeah, there's an Askubuntu article I'm reading now
<awilkins> It's now spent about 20 minutes unpacking a kernel update in this VM image
<awilkins> I'm guessing it's doing something monumentally awful like copying the whole file every time it syncs
 * awilkins murders VM
<MooDoo> dweaver: having a few connection issues?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: ah that's the difference luks encrypts when the disk is idle, ecryptfs happens on write make luks more efficient, ecryptfs's big advantage though is that you can have multiple passwords per user
<diddledan> mornin
<diddledan> wait, it's pancake day?!
<MooDoo> yup shrove tuesday
<zmoylan-pi> when all around the linux channels various recipes for pancakes are fought over... :-)
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: vi pancakes! no emacs pancakes!
<zmoylan-pi> emacs pancakes require too many resources...
<mapps> hello
<mapps> where can i get pancakes
<mapps> dont wanna make myself
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> think i got sunburnt in seville at the football;/
<popey> co-op
 * popey looks at dweaver 
 * diddledan looks at popey looking at dweaver
<diddledan> bouncy connections ftw?
<mapps> no co-op here
<mapps> in gibraltar
<mapps> maybe morrisons sell them at the cafe?
<mapps> hm
<diddledan> ooh, I've got a WordPress "Core Contributor" badge now! https://profiles.wordpress.org/diddledan
<czajkowski> aloha
<diddledan> o/
<mapps> whos used miracast?
<mapps> hm misconduct was boring
<MartijnVdS> mapps: I've never figured out how it's supposed to work
<mapps> i read it as basically wireless hdmi
<mapps> from android tablet/phone to a miracast tv or device using wifi direct?
<mapps> some manufacturers name it differently and also read lots of devices dont work with others like thy should
<MartijnVdS> yeah I've only used Chromecast and that works fine
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: you mirror your PC screen via chromecast ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: we do presentations at work using them
<MartijnVdS> well using one xD
 * davmor2 can't wait for the dev to finish working on athercast for Ubuntu :)
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: Using google presenter ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: just casting anything really
<MartijnVdS> from the browser, or the whole screen
<MooDoo> no dweaver you're drunk stop it :)
<MartijnVdS> maybe that's what the 'd' stands for
<zmoylan-pi> we could order something from acme to stop him...
<MartijnVdS> an ACME banhammer?
<zmoylan-pi> free delivery...
<m0nkey_> Myrtti brings the banhammer :)
<Myrtti> I tried it in the morning and thought it was sorted so removed it
<Myrtti> alas it wasn't
<m0nkey_> If only we could get the same response in #freenas. People's connections are _always_ cycling
<popey> is that because people irc from their freenas boxes ã
<MartijnVdS> subtle freebsd bashing :P
<MooDoo> :)
<m0nkey_> Both Linux and BSD people are awesome. I don't bash either of them. Unless they're missing a .bashrc file.
<MartijnVdS> *goes to find a zsh user*
<m0nkey_> Heh, I typically use csh on bsd.
 * DJones plays with a new Galaxy Tab S2
 * awilkins is free of ecryptfs
<awilkins> Night and day
<m0nkey_> heh
<awilkins> I'm sure it's fine for office users, but DAYM
<awilkins> Not so good for tech people
<m0nkey_> VeraCrypt containers FTW for sensitive data
<m0nkey_> back to work for me
<m0nkey_> cya for now
<mapps> hmm so tired lying down watching tv..always makes me tired
<diddledan> x-files episode 3 was nuts
<diddledan> complete craycray
<zmoylan-pi> shhhhh was gonna watch that tonight
<diddledan> there's another tonight at 1am in america
<diddledan> it's daftytime!
<diddledan> ello daftykins
<daftykins> \o
<diddledan> o/
<daftykins> ooh this is creepy but impressive - https://i.imgur.com/kuxvSB5.jpg
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> that's freaky
<diddledan> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/09/microsoft_sql_server_2014_bug/
<davmor2> diddledan: did you like my selection for pancake day :D
<daftykins> https://imgur.com/gallery/4jmu3p2
<diddledan> apparently sublime is still alive: http://thenextweb.com/apps/2016/02/09/sublime-text-is-being-developed-again-after-a-year-dormant/
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-10
<daftykins> wow at this on Dell's outlet - https://www.dropbox.com/s/uhbydqgj8tp7657/dell.JPG?dl=0
<ali1234> what is î¸ ?
<daftykins> i'm seeing a square box, so probably UTF fail in my case
<ali1234> yes i know that but what actually is the symbol?
<ali1234> and where does it come from?
<ali1234> and specifically why does my terminal keep printing it?
<daftykins> pass
<daftykins> locale issues?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's something to do with unicode
<ali1234> xfce4-terminal does not print it, but terminator does
<ali1234> hmm actually it does, depending on the font
<ali1234> but weirdly xterm with the same font doesn't
<ali1234> this is so weird
<ali1234> one day i'll find a piece of software that works properly. one day.
<ali1234> i should just use vte directly instead of relying on terminals
<diddledan> ali1234: it might not be a real unicode but garbage spewed from a malfunction?
<ali1234> it isn't
<ali1234> it's definitely 100% correct unicode
<ali1234> the issue is that different terminals display it differently
<ali1234> even though they all use libvte internally
<ali1234> wait a minute
<ali1234> i think i know what the problem is here
<ali1234> the glyph in question is an empty space
<ali1234> perhaps the PCF font omits this character entirely
<ali1234> so it gets substituted from another one
<ali1234> no, it definitely contains the glyph
<diddledan> if you see it as a square that is the usual sign that a character is being substituted due to the code not matching a valid character in the font
<ali1234> i don't see it as a square
<ali1234> i should see an empty space
<diddledan> that's how I see it
<ali1234> instead, i see a weird character
<ali1234> see http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/261136/libvte-unicode-font-handling
<diddledan> how are you echoing the character?
<ali1234> with cat
<ali1234> the file i am catting is also linked on that question
<ali1234> if you think i can add any more useful information, please let me know :)
<ali1234> both fonts are linked too
<ali1234> turns out VTE is being consistent at least, i was confused
<ali1234> seems this is actually a quirk of gtk
<ali1234> argh
<ali1234> hmm i think i know what is happening
<ali1234> when i select PCF font in VTE, it replaces *all* the characters with scalable ones
<ali1234> every single one
<ali1234> that's why they don't render properly
<ali1234> for some reason it substitutes ee20 from a different font, while all the others come from the ttf version of my font
<ali1234> hmm no that can't be it either
<ali1234> so here's a fun thing to try at home
<ali1234> try to write a command line program that runs itself inside a new urxvt or xterm window
<ali1234> and also accepts input on a pipe
<ali1234> and also exits cleanly at the end
<ali1234> and also redirects it's output into less, inside the xterm
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> 'ning
<knightwise>  hey guys
<knightwise> how you buddiez doin ?
<Myrtti> could've slept better...
<MooDoo> morning
<foobarry> anyone got "the throat"?
<foobarry> sore throat for 5 days
<SuperMatt> not yet, but my girlfriend does
<foobarry> ah , you will
<SuperMatt> wonderful
<SuperMatt> I was looking forward to some time off
<MooDoo> son has it but not me
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Plimsoll Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
 * zmoylan-pi listens to the squeak squeak of people walking past in sneakers...
<JamesTait> ð  MooDoo, zmoylan-pi
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51qeNPOuIIQ
<zmoylan-pi> and 01f44b to you too... what ever character that is...
<MooDoo> all I see is a square
<JamesTait> https://codepoints.net/U+1F44b
<zmoylan-pi> another joy of irrsi is that it gets rid of the emojii and unicode silliness... :-)
 * JamesTait is using irssi.
<JamesTait> Joyfully.
<MooDoo> I'm using irssi as well
<zmoylan-pi> mine is running on rasp pi... might need a reboot...
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: all hail irssi
<knightwise> on the pi
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm, that web page on linux mint isn't showing the unicode either... i'm in too minds as to should i try and fix that...
<knightwise> running it , so am i
<Myrtti> U+2665 and U+221E are my favourite
<zmoylan-pi> and i'll never know as none of my systems seem to be able to display them... :-)
<Myrtti> â¥
<JamesTait> Myrtti, I have â â¥ for you. âº
<Myrtti> awww
<davmor2> Myrtti: watch him he is after something
<Myrtti> sorry but I'm spoken for http://www.hkjewellery.co.uk/ring-11586-1-miia-s-bespoke-binary-inspired-palladium-wedding-ring
<zmoylan-pi> pfttt, isn't <3 good enough anymore :-P
 * knightwise thinks that everything you do on a computer is way cooler when you listen to the "dark knight" soundtrack while doing it
<zmoylan-pi> i listen to banjo... or bagpipes... :-) drowns out everything else...
<JamesTait> Myrtti, they are very nice rings.
<Myrtti> they are, even when both my engagement and his wedding one got a bit worse when we had them resized. But that's life
<arsenip>  h
<mapps> hi all
<davmor2> hello
<foobarry> copter just landed outside
<Myrtti> FYI removed some old looking purely IP based bans.
<Myrtti> popey: ^
<popey> okeydoke
<popey> thanks
<Myrtti> there's still a good amount left but not in amounts that it would be an issue, leaving even those old ones probably wouldn't have been but it's more likely that the people have moved on with dynamic addresses
<zmoylan-pi>  black helicopters... everyone panic... \o/
<foobarry> red one
<foobarry> think it means someone is hurt :(
<zmoylan-pi> ah :-(
<davmor2> foobarry: no that means that someone is very hurt
<foobarry> yeah :(
<foobarry> they didn't bring him back to the heli
<foobarry> not sure if that is good or bad
<zmoylan-pi> could just be they needed some equipment from the heli fast
<mapps> hm what film to watch crimson peak or the lobster
<mapps> the lobster sounds interesting
<mapps> In a dystopian near future, single people, according to the laws of The City, are taken to The Hotel, where they are obliged to find a romantic partner in forty-five days or are transformed into beasts and sent off into The Woods.
<bashrc> that must be a one star
<popey> You should watch http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ad38087bac/donald-trump-art-of-the-deal-movie
<NET||abuse> hey guys. anyone know how to get vmware horizon installed? I need to access a vmware VDI windows desktop
<NET||abuse> all these bloody companies only offer windows or mac apps..
<m0nkey_> NET||abuse, they have a linux client for Horizon. https://my.vmware.com/web/vmware/info?slug=desktop_end_user_computing/vmware_horizon_clients/3_0
<NET||abuse> yeh, i downloaded that and it gave me error saying magic number does not match,,,, maybe that's a corrupt download,i'll try it again.
<m0nkey_> Have you read the system requirements?
<m0nkey_> Are you installing on a 64-bit 14.04 client?
<m0nkey_> If so, it wont work, 64-bit only available for 12.04
<NET||abuse> m0nkey_: good pont, i had missed that.
<NET||abuse> hmm, tried the 32 bit installer, but it fails to run the installer with an error   User interface initialization failed.  Exiting.  Check the log for details.
<m0nkey_> NET||abuse, are you on a 32 or 64 bit machine?
<NET||abuse> m0nkey_: sorry, was afk, i'm on a 64 bit 15.10
<m0nkey_> NET||abuse, document said 14.04 32-bit only, 12.04 has 64-bit support
<m0nkey_> So you need to be on either of them for it to work on Ubuntu
<m0nkey_> The documentation was very clear about it
<Azelphur> Woo, just got my first freelance contract after quitting my job. \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-11
<m0nkey_> Congrats Azelphur
<Azelphur> ty :)
<Azelphur> doing django/python dev \o/
<m0nkey_> Ah ha! I'm putting you on speed dial for that :)
<Azelphur> Hehe, I'm your guy for that ;)
<m0nkey_> Just like I put diddledan on speed dial for regex
<Azelphur> Still working on building myself a nice portfolio for myself, but http://ssh.azelphur.com:8050/ is a WIP project :)
<m0nkey_> cool
<m0nkey_> lol: You're seeing this error because you have DEBUG = True in your Django settings file.
<Azelphur> what's you break :o
<m0nkey_> The logo, points to index2.html, get a 404
<Azelphur> hahaha, you always forget the obvious huh ;)
<m0nkey_> Maybe you can help the #freenas guys with their GUI, that's done in Django
<m0nkey_> And they can't do gui's very well.. lol
<m0nkey_> I take it you play TF2? :)
<Azelphur> Hehe yea freenas is cool, sadly I don't use it at home
<Azelphur> and I do indeed :)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<andrewebdev> o/
<Myrtti> mnÃ¶Ã¶.
<MooDoo> :)
<diplo> What do you guys recommend on the Pi2 as a desktop? Bought a spare MicroSD for one of my kids to play
<foobarry> risc OS?
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> diplo: lxde/xfce variety of your favourite distro that will install on it
<diplo> Yeah I was gussing that, think that's what raspbian ships with.. I believe martin wimpress has got Mate running on it to
<diplo> Just wondered if anyone else had tried anything
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Get Out Your Guitar Day! ð
<foobarry> mehhhhh bootstrap
<davmor2> JamesTait: you argue with me over this one I will hunt you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLV4_xaYynY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9irsg1vBmq0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_lyXfQgIV0
<JamesTait> davmor2, no arguments from me there!
<davmor2> JamesTait: I could add a bit of slash and santana and a bit of chuck berry and clapton, but I think those 2 are my favourite by far :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> woohoo qualsys ssl checker - a+ baby lol
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0gED3rn2Tc
<sebsebseb> popey: ping
<popey> sebsebseb: hello
<sebsebseb> popey: morning, I been wondering about something, maybe you know the answer to :)
<zmoylan-pi> it takes everyone 3 attempts to plug in usb :-P
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: not with usbc
<sebsebseb> popey: that upcoming tablet, saw the speeches at FOSDEM about it to :), but I get the impression it may only really the convergence work with a blue tooth mouse and keyboard,  not a USB one?
<zmoylan-pi> then you're not drunk enough
<sebsebseb> popey: seems all teh articles say blue tooth as well,  except the register one where it did say usb, that I have read
<moreati> davmor2: USB-C takes 4 attempts. 3 with the cable you have, and the 4th after a trip to Maplin for a new cable
<sebsebseb> popey: will it work with USB as well, any idea?  and  even USB but without a O2G device :)?
<sebsebseb> wonders what the others are talking about, I see something USB there to, heh
 * sebsebseb /me that one even :d
<moreati> I'm struggling to connect to EFNet IRC. Anyone here using it? Which server are you connected to?
<popey> I have plugged USB keyboards and mice into Ubuntu touch devices
<sebsebseb> popey: yes it worked on the Meizu via the OTG device :),  but I am not sure if it will work with the BQ M10
<sebsebseb> have you been able to play around with one of those yet running UBuntu by the way ?
<popey> I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to use a USB OTG cable with the upcoming devices
<popey> device
<popey> :)
 * sebsebseb plans to buy it next month, but even though cheap, wasn't so keen on buying a blue tooth mouse  and keyboard as well specifically
<zmoylan-pi> bt keyboards are really cheap now
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: yeah, but I also got a load of old USB keyboards lying around and mouses to :d
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen them for <â¬20
<sebsebseb> so it's like why buy a blue tooth keyboard and mouse when not that needed, when can use old usb ones :d
<sebsebseb> with the phones/ tablet
<popey> because it's more cables
<popey> and less easy to charge and use OTG devices at the same time
<zmoylan-pi> mind the sub 20 note keyboard made the zx spectrum keyboard look professional
<popey> using BT kb/mouse means your device can be on charge while you're typing
<sebsebseb> ah right yeah that's true I supouse, O2G takes over the charger
<zmoylan-pi> no cables to tug tablet off table accidently to floor
<sebsebseb> uses the battery
<sebsebseb> can't realy charge with a o2g device connected
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: yeah cables can be annoying like that at times sure
<sebsebseb> actually that's a good point,  can have the tablet over ther some where, and keyboard there, no cables connected  to possibly make it to go on floor
<popey> You can get a hub which will charge and let you use a kb/mouse over usb too
 * sebsebseb woudn't want to be dropping Ubuntu tablet onto hard lamented floor, like has done with Ipad a few times, resulting in proper damage in the end, well actaully that was a titled  floor to finnish things off, when changing rooms! and dogs distracting
<Myrtti> Finnish?!?!
<Myrtti> oh.
<sebsebseb> yeah there probably is a o2g hub for charging to
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: ha ha do you have that word on auto high light or something :d ?
<Myrtti> no.
<zmoylan-pi> when you properly want to 'take care' of things you finnish them... :-P
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: do you?  uhmm Jolla !
<Myrtti> hammer it with a Nokia 3310
 * sebsebseb thinks he won't get that Jolla tablet after all, but instead a re fund eventually!
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a nokia 3310 for sale recently.  was tempted. could always use a new hammer...
<sebsebseb> some people were really annoyed at the Jolla situation going by comments in blog
<sebsebseb> etc
<sebsebseb> some people they got cheated, but no one got cheated out  of there money really
<czajkowski> Aloha
<sebsebseb> some people feel like above
<sebsebseb> czajkowski: hi
<zmoylan-pi> so did czajkowski find her car?
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: I did indeed
<sebsebseb> czajkowski: uh what happended to your car?
<czajkowski> remembered which spot to get off the bus on and then kinda worked my way back to the car
<czajkowski> sebsebseb: nothing, I just landed back at Gatwick
<popey> well, technically they did get cheated
<czajkowski> wasnt sure of which bay I parked in
<popey> They backed a crowdfunder and were promised a tablet
<popey> the money was used for other things
<popey> and the tablets show up on chinese websites.
<popey> I'd be pretty annoyed too
<sebsebseb> popey: well the sailfish 2.0 update was part of the deal really
<sebsebseb> popey: it was a tablet with a software update
<sebsebseb> meant to be
<popey> a tablet
<popey> which they didn't get.
<popey> mind you, some got refunds, so that's okay I guess.
<sebsebseb> popey: the chinese tablet was a copy one I read something about that
<sebsebseb> popey: something similar not Jolla
<popey> nope
<sebsebseb> popey: I haven't got anything yet,  waiting still to see what happens there!
<popey> Some were the actual tablets that had been produced in the same factory.
<sebsebseb> popey: no email even to say if I am going to get re funded or  get the tablet maybe
<popey> yeah, you have to apply for it
<popey> it's been all over the campaign and jolla blog
<sebsebseb> popey: uh  did I miss something? even though I read loads of comments from disapoinated people etc?
<sebsebseb> I thought I read that Jolla was going to email out something before
<popey> https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-closure/
<popey> hm, it does say you'll get an email
<popey> that was only a couple of weeks ago
<sebsebseb> Firefox doesn't offically support phones anymore,  unofficaly can still get it on phones though.  Jolla has had tablet issues etc.  It pretty much just leaves Ubuntu now as the alternative.  Tizen is there kind of  of to, but not properly
<zmoylan-pi> blackberry still exist but seem to be moving 100% android
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: yep I saw that to
<sebsebseb> latest phone was Anddroid with Blackberry changes
<zmoylan-pi> nokia bought alcatel so it remains to be seen what they do when they come back into the market
<sebsebseb> Remix OS is nice for exampel, but that's based on Android, so not including that  kind of stuff as well, it basically leaves Ubuntu as the alternative now
<sebsebseb> the alternative to Android or iOS that is
<sebsebseb> or Windows Phone even
<zmoylan-pi> opera looks like it's going to be sold to the chinese so that will shake up the dumbphone market which is still huge
<zmoylan-pi> windows phone remains dead on arrival
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: Opera is based on webkit or whatever,  they  got rid of there own rendering engine
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: I guess not much point really in Opera anymore, except for loads of features that other browserse won't have here and there
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: and if people don't mind running a closed source browser.  I meant features as in graphical ones
<sebsebseb> still better peeople running OPera than IE or Edge though
<zmoylan-pi> opera is default browser on a lot of dumbphones and allows them to web, email, rss so it is kinda big if that goes away or is disrupted
<sebsebseb> Opera runs webkit so that's good :)
<zmoylan-pi> not on dumbphones it doesn't
<sebsebseb> altough  even IE and Edge are better these days when it comes to web standards much better, than about 10 years ago anyway
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: oh?
<sebsebseb> czajkowski: where you been, back in Ireland or something?
<zmoylan-pi> it's a microbrowser serving compressed rendered pages from opera
<sebsebseb> hmm this is interesting
<sebsebseb> so I am actsaully using Ubuntu 15.10 right now, since my computer isn't quite set up yet since... UEFI stuff, other life stuff etc
<sebsebseb> anyway so I just clicked on the link from popey  in konversation and it opended up  in
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu Web Browser ???????
<czajkowski> sebsebseb: nope over in Stockholm at jfokus
<popey> Yeah, I was a bit sad about FirefoxOS not being developed further for phones.
<sebsebseb> what's Ubuntu Web Brower,  that seems odd,
<sebsebseb> czajkowski: what's jfokus ?
<sebsebseb> czajkowski: also nice your in Sweden :)  I am half Swedish so, yes I speak it :)
<sebsebseb> well were over
<sebsebseb> popey: why's that?
<popey> Competition is good
<sebsebseb> in general yeah
<popey> Also, I have a FFOS phone which is now a brick
<sebsebseb> ,but could work out for Canonica's advantage that a bit realy
<sebsebseb> since as I put earlier,  it pretty much just leaves Ubuntu now, and Tizen sort of
<sebsebseb> popey: I read that some more updates would happen I think actsaully untll next year
<popey> I wouldn't hold my breath for FFOS updates
<sebsebseb> popey: I was a bit like uh, why are you showing FIrefox phones at FOSDEM at the Mozilla stand after that news?  they were like well can still get Firefox OS on phones  it's just offically Mozilla won't sell them anymore
<sebsebseb> Tizen stuff was interesting :)
<sebsebseb> popey: did you go there?  turns out Mark did and I actsaully ended up  meeting him :)
<popey> No
<sebsebseb> popey: I assume you have met him quite a few times, but now I have as well :).  who keeps on answering quite a few of the questions  for one of those Ubuntu talks at the back,  they sond knowledable thinking, oh it's Mark!  so seems someone else had done it to, but took the oppertunitty to briefuly chat to him after that,  and shook hands with him as well.
<sebsebseb> popey: how was SCALE that's a point?
<popey> great
<popey> want to go again
<sebsebseb> what did you do there?
<sebsebseb> and  much bigger than FOSDEM I guess
<popey> no, not bigger
<popey> different style of conf though
<sebsebseb> what kind of style?
<popey> I think there were about 3600 people there
<sebsebseb> more business llike?
<popey> no, just not quite as developer focussed
<popey> much bigger expo area
<sebsebseb> what  talks did you get to there than
<sebsebseb> stands even etc
<sebsebseb> ?
<popey> There were quite a few stands. We had one of course, gnome, kde, elementary, kodi, facebook
<popey> lots :)
<sebsebseb> facebook had one oh?
<popey> yeah
<sebsebseb> what's that got to do with Linux not much I Guess, except for the server running it
<sebsebseb> and they open sourceed someting I think
<popey> They had loads of hardware
<popey> OpenCompute stuff. Was very interesting and cool
<sebsebseb> What's OpenCompute?
<popey> https://emccode.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/facebook-open-hardware.jpg
<sebsebseb> oh ok
<sebsebseb> popey: uh that link to, can you tell me what Ubuntu Web Browser is?  I thought they would just up in FIrefox from Konversation, but nopep
<popey> It's the browser we use on the phone
<popey> also works on the desktop
<sebsebseb> popey: oh but why would my links here on the lap top be loading up in it from Konversation?
<sebsebseb> and diddnt know there was that in here to
<popey> no idea, I'm sure you can set default browser somehow
<sebsebseb> popey: so Ubuntu web browser is bundled into 15.10 by default?
<sebsebseb> yeah I guess its just set up to use the wrong one from konversation
<popey> not sure, I'm on 14.04
<brobostigon> packages.ubuntu.com to the rescue.
<sebsebseb> popey: uh how come you use 14.04 ?
<popey> I like stability
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah 15.04 and 15.10 did both seem like mostly updating for the sake of updateing releases
<sebsebseb> releasees because there is meant to be a release
<foobarry> whats the best thing to check my <div>s in a page are matched up?
<foobarry> vim doesn't do it
<awilkins> Tidy?
<zmoylan-pi> and intern with ocd? :-P
<sebsebseb> popey: plus  both have been a bit buggy here and there it seems.  an issue with Kubuntu and  system error message or whatever
<awilkins> foobarry, Are you aiming for proper XHTML?
<foobarry> i have a gnarly page with loads of divs
 * sebsebseb should  actaully bother and re set up this computer, and more properly next time round!  but haven't yet.  re install Windows 8.1 upgrade it back to 10.  put on Linux distros after that and :)
<foobarry> tabulation may not be exactly correct
<sebsebseb> end up with a nice multi boot :)
<awilkins> sebsebseb, You can install 10 straihgt
<sebsebseb> awilkins: well I
<foobarry> so i want to check the parent div to an /dov
<foobarry> a /div
<awilkins> sebsebseb, If you have a Win7 or Win8 key it will accept it as valid
<sebsebseb> awilkins: lap top came pre installed with Windows 8.1
<sebsebseb> awilkins: I upgraded it to 10
<awilkins> sebsebseb, I think it may have written your validation key to the BIOS then
<awilkins> You should be able to install it fresh
<sebsebseb> awilkins: I did something a bit silly for Windows,  used a program from net that may not have been the offical one it turns out.  maybe got malware in my install I don't knjow.  so to be safe I want to do a proper clean install.  yes could have mad using the recovery partion possibly, but no want to do a full re instal a proper one.  so  actasully I bought a HP re recovery USB for that purpouse
<sebsebseb> awilkins: and a two years subscriptoin to Macafee so I would get it quicker
<sebsebseb> for a little more
<sebsebseb> yes Macafee sucks I know
<foobarry> awilkins: tidy looks handy, ta
<sebsebseb> awilkins: but not used it yet, since other things! I am just not as interested anymore in genreal in installing OS's
<sebsebseb> setting up a computer etc
<sebsebseb> as well so
<sebsebseb> awilkins: apparantly I can re install from 8.1 as many times as I want that USB, and should be able to always be able to upgrade it up to 10 as well
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00YFI1EBC
<sebsebseb> but when I do that properly, that Windows install is the one that is meant to stay on the lap top untill the hardware breaks etc
<popey> seen elsewhere
<popey> amazing
<sebsebseb> awilkins: then Linux distro fun time :).  multi booting,  especially now that I know how to actsaully get Grub 2 loading up on here first as well :),  I had missed the UEFI bios opton before since it was a bit hidden away etc
<sebsebseb> popey: you mean the price is amazing?
<sebsebseb> popey: for 128GB?
<popey> and the size
<popey> hmm, irssi is sometimes not scrolling for me
<popey> if I bodge the text size with CTRL+ and CTRL- it updates
<sebsebseb> popey: there was a offer to get a 128GB  Flash drive with uh forgot name now,  office suite based on Open Office sophos or something.  but  I didn't really have cash then.  plus I had got it given free to me eyars ago I think,  or an upgrade was a 32GB flash drive
<popey> but it sits there with -more- in the status bar but wont autoscroll
<sebsebseb> I have been thinking at times for quite a while now though, to maybe buy a 128GB at some stage
<popey> The 128GB would be handy in my laptop, i dont use the USB 3 port much
<popey> nice to have an extra 128GB storage
<sebsebseb> oh actually for sotrage yeah indeed
<sebsebseb> same I don't use USB ports much in lap top
<sebsebseb> I do have two external hard disks, but that's more for storage etc proper storage or will be, and those are still bigger
<popey> https://github.com/mjholtkamp/irssi-trackbar/issues/5
<popey> gah
<sebsebseb> order today get tommorow apaprantly free delivery in uk
<sebsebseb> well I hope so then, gbecause I don't have Amazon prime
<sebsebseb> popey: heh it's nice suddenly I got money again, that I can  spend a bit on tings like 128GB USB drives if I want to :)
<sebsebseb> awilkins: yes that's what HP said,  that the key is in hardwARE OR WHATEVER
<sebsebseb> awilkins: they woudn't just send me one for Windows 10,  nope it's the what came on lap top stuff
<sebsebseb> popey: I need to update my Mum's lap top really.  there's certain stuff on it to really that should go on some kind of external media.  128GB USB would be useful for that partly
<sebsebseb> and my own lap top for back up. would be useful
<popey> reminds me, need to replace my mums computer
<popey> getting a bit old now
<sebsebseb> replace why?
<popey> old/slow
<sebsebseb> popey: My Mum's is getting a bit old for sure now to, but as long as there's still 32bit Linux should be ok for quite a few years to come it seems
<popey> not if you use chrome / chromium
<sebsebseb> it's from like 2003 or 2005 or somethng llike that
<popey> no more 32-bit builds for you
<sebsebseb> yep I have read that
<sebsebseb> ,but she usees Firefox so :)
<popey> which my mum uses
<sebsebseb> I never like Chrome/Chrmium that much
<sebsebseb> and it was Firefox that changed the brower market, made IE go more standards compliant etc
<sebsebseb> popey: so you think that 128GB USB on amazon is the like best deal for that at the moment?
<popey> no idea
<sebsebseb> sounded like it earlier :)
<popey> I just pasted a link from another channel
<popey> it looked like a good price, but I haven't looked around
<sebsebseb> popey: I just found a cheaper one in red, but then it's kind of like what make is that really:  http://www.mymemory.co.uk/USB-Flash-Drives/MyMemory/MyMemory-128GB-USB-3.0-Flash-Drive---Red
<popey> I was more interested in one that was slimline
<popey> could stay in the laptop and wouldn't get knocked out
<sebsebseb> popey: what is slimline?
 * awilkins has HMRC confirm that he doesn't owe them ten grand 
<awilkins>  \O/
<zmoylan-pi> it's 20,000... :-P
<awilkins> Happily not
<awilkins> Something about how their systems process payments is broke
<sebsebseb> awilkins: why did they think you owe them such a large sum?
<pwaring> HMRC sometimes get data late
<awilkins> Somehow their computer was convinced that they'd actually given me a Â£4,000 refund instead of paying them Â£6,000 over three months
<pwaring> e.g. they thought I owed them Â£2k a few years ago because they hadn't received confirmation that my loan had been paid of
<popey> sebsebseb: small
<awilkins> I usually go to Scan for most of my needs... flash included
<awilkins> 128GB in a port-sized device : https://www.scan.co.uk/products/128gb-samsung-fit-pendrive-usb-30-ultra-slim-compact-design-read-130mb-s-write-45mb-s
<popey> refuse to buy from scan
<popey> its amazing they can fit stuff inside a usb stick
<awilkins> Have Scan done the dirty on you in the past?
<awilkins> There are advantages to living within driving distance and knowing the owner...
<popey> They sold stolen hard drive to a friend.
<popey> It broke, he contacted manufacturer who said "No warranty for you! That drive fell off a lorry"
<awilkins> That sucks.
<awilkins> To be fair, having worked there, I can believe it.
<awilkins> (over 15 years ago now I think)
<popey> heh
<sebsebseb> popey: why don't you like scan?
<sebsebseb> awilkins: yeah you kind of wonder with some of these compajies who are htey etc, but my memory for example is probably ok
<sebsebseb> Amazon is ok usaully for stuff, but that's giving money to a massive company who uh
<popey> look up
<sebsebseb> heh I am not so sure about this my memory now
<sebsebseb> where's your about company page?
<sebsebseb> and I get linked to trust pillot
<sebsebseb> heh
<mapps> ugh
<mapps> 3hrs of blackjack yesterday how un exciting
<DJones> MooDoo: Do you still work for heart internet?
<MooDoo> DJones: no thank fully
<MooDoo> DJones: they are having issues at the moment
<DJones> Yeah, that was made ask, just saw it on the register
<MooDoo> DJones: looks like a power cut, problem is when a whole DC goes down, it's not just a simple task to put everything back on, as you're probably more than aware
<DJones> I can believe that, would think there's so many fall back settings/tests that have to be done that it'll take ages
<MooDoo> definately, sql corruptions, kvms not coming back on line blimey i bet the list is endless, i've not been there nearly 2 years
<davmor2> MooDoo: just long enough for them to of forgotten you and the trojan you put in to overload their power grid right ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yea that's the one lol
<MooDoo> if date > 100216 then overload power; else reboot.
<davmor2> MooDoo: fool you missed if date > 100216 then overload power; rm -rf /mount/backup/*; else reboot
<MooDoo> bugger, no wonder i'm getting the wrong tweets
<davmor2> MooDoo: logged into the wrong account by any chance?
<MooDoo> davmor2: at one stage i did briefly think it was me, just paid for a domain and click accepts then it all went tits up
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh so the full script was  if date > 100216 and login == MooDoo then rm -rf /media/backup/*; overload power; else reboot
<davmor2> man you are more evil than I thought ;)
<MooDoo> ha ha ha ha ha :)
<popey> http://www.factmag.com/2016/02/11/soundcloud-financial-report-44m-losses/
<popey> oops
<mapps> great
<mapps> as expected my eyesight has got worse
<mapps> getting older sucks:)
<zmoylan-pi> look on the bright side as you decline you'll forget what good eyesight was like
<mapps> heh
<mapps> i only went as i broke my glasses..hadnt had an eye test for 4/5yrs
<diddledan> you know the keyboard shortcuts screen that shows when you first install ubuntu? well why does it have an X icon in the top-left suggesting you can click to close the screen when it doesnât do anything?
<popey> known bug
<popey> bug 1313597
<lubotu3`> bug 1313597 in Unity 7.2 "Shortcut overlay cannot be closed by clicking the close button in 14.04" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313597
<diddledan> that says itâs fixed
<diddledan> it lies
<diddledan> this is a brand-new install of 15.10 and itâs still not working
<diddledan> yet it says fix released which suggests to me that thereâs a fix which has been release
 * diddledan goes to find a soap box to stand on and moan :-p
<popey> you probably wont see it because you installed from an iso that didn't have the fix
<popey> only a new user would see it on an up to date install
<diddledan> the iso I downloaded at 17:20 today before installing at 17:30 and then complaining at 17:40
<diddledan> and.. considering the fix was supposedly released in 2014 then I would expect both 15.04 and 15.10 (but at a minimum 15.10) to have the fix
<diddledan> (times may be fudged for effect)
<diddledan> the point being that I downloaded the iso brand-new today and installed a brand-new system today
<popey> the fix was released in may 2015
<popey> so should have been in 15.10, but not 15.04
<diddledan> doesnât seem to have made it to the 15.10 iso currently available :-(
<diddledan> hopefully 16.04 will get it as thatâs an LTS so we want it to be as correct as possible out of the gate
<popey> yeah
<popey> feel free to leave a comment on the bug
<diddledan> evening, daftykins
<daftykins> hiya, how goes it?
<diddledan> good good
<mapps> hi;]
<daftykins> hello chap, how do?
<mapps> 1hr left of the lobster and man its weird
<mapps> im good , yourself?
<daftykins> yeah not bad ta! itching to keep busy but i'm at the mercy of much delayed deliveries right now
<daftykins> downsides to island life :)
<mapps> whatcha waiting for
<daftykins> i found a brilliant intel i5 haswell (4th generation) desktop from Dell's outlet for Â£211 delivered
<mapps> nice
<daftykins> an extra Â£60 will double the RAM to 8GB and add a 240GB SSD :)
<diddledan> my macbook proâs internal batter is swollen
<diddledan> battery**
<diddledan> according to the internets it could cost me 170Â£ to get apple to replace :-(
<daftykins> mmhmm, i wouldn't recommend cheap ones though, a mate had one that only lasted 10 charges
<diddledan> ouch
<daftykins> i take it you've removed it if it's possible - and/or aren't using the machine it's in anymore?
<diddledan> itâs internal so much more difficult to replace yourself than the old style removable cartridge
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> you're not using it right? they're a danger in that state
<diddledan> yeah, I've shut down now and disconnected from the mains
<diddledan> :-(
<daftykins> i'd put it in a fireproof spot too :/
<daftykins> i'd probably want to get to a store ASAP were it me
<daftykins> hmm this makes me rethink the idea of sealed battery machines
<diddledan> yeah it would be nice if I could replace it with an off-the-shelf (but official) replacement
<diddledan> I guess I need to get a genius to look at it
<diddledan> they need pre-booked appointments tho :-(
<daftykins> yeah :/
<m0nkey_> diddledan, for batteries, i think you can walk straight into the store
<diddledan> really?
<diddledan> it's a complex job to replace them
<daftykins> can't be, i've had a few generations apart
<daftykins> is it an MBP with the single alu plate underneath with a bunch of screws?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> early 2013
<diddledan> 10,2
<daftykins> hmm a clients mid 2010 was a few screws then couple more on the battery and job done
<diddledan> these battery packs (6 of them) are glued-in
<daftykins> if i were you i'd call up the support line, UK if it's 24hr or US if not - then ask if they do them in-house
<daftykins> then you'll know whether you need an appointment or not :D
<daftykins> meh, only enough adhesive to hold i'm sure
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-12
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> thank crunchie it's friday
<MooDoo> yes definately and I should get to finish at 1:45 today :)
<zmoylan-pi> half day for MooDoo \o/
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: if it was half day i'd be finishing at 10am lol
<mapps> mornimg
<MooDoo> :)
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> howdy SuperMatt how are you this fine day?
<knightwise> hey SuperMatt , MooDoo
<mapps> 16c here yay
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise are you well?
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , yep , i'm ok'ish
<knightwise> counting down the days on this shitty project :)
<mapps> what project
<knightwise>  main project i'm working on at the client.
<mapps> bit vague;p doesnt even say what language heh
<foobarry> anyone have a redhat access acount that they could use to tell me what a page says on their site please?
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<MooDoo> foobarry: what's the url?
<foobarry> MooDoo: https://access.redhat.com/solutions/697913
<foobarry> i suspect they will say update your vmlinuz and initrd.img but i've done that
<MooDoo> foobarry: http://pastebin.com/9ZiL6CCd
<foobarry> muchos gracias MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> So Jamestait is off but told me today is evolution day I think this is fitting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cad2JYi4F0I
<davmor2> Appologies Darwin Day not Evolution but same thing really :)
<popey> http://www.thinkworldshop.com.cn/pm/51077.html?twsrm2
<popey> i think i want that
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy are you?
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> yeah good thanks :)
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> :)
<Laney> so
<MooDoo> so?
<Laney> if I put a couple of house plants on a windowsill which is above a radiator
<Laney> is that bad
<Laney> for their life prospects
<Myrtti> my Kalanchoes are doing great on the windowsill
<Myrtti> they're practically a weed now, they grow so fast and much
<Myrtti> I need to snip branches off and pot them
<Myrtti> then I can just give the excess to friends
<Laney> meh
<Laney> it's a spider plant
<Laney> it's a hardy wee beastie
<davmor2> Damn you can't hear this song and not think I lose https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_JF8oSxXtM
 * Laney would like the delivery to turn up already so that he can put the radio on without fear of missing it
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of trap at the door...
<Laney> that is a good plan
 * zmoylan-pi hands Laney a 10foot sq cargo net and rope...
 * Laney puts a bacon sarnie on the step
<Laney> probably end up catching one of the local cats instead
<zmoylan-pi> don't forget a copy of guns and ammo if it's royal mail...
<m0nkey_> Morning morning
<davmor2> Laney: did it turn up yet?
<Laney> yep!
<zmoylan-pi> huzzah \o/
<davmor2> \o/ music for the masses
<mapps> empires retty good, the series
<diddledan> dum ditty dum
<zmoylan-pi> dit dit dit dah dah dah
<davmor2> diddledan: were you going for this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1AnTi1X2QM
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> nice
<diddledan> I'm betting back in the 60s the theme was really impressive for a scifi (it still is but that's besides the point :-p)
<diddledan> it really says to you "this is the future!"
<davmor2> indeed
<diddledan> I think the exposure that hit me the most to say "computers can generate cool music" was playing tyrian2000
<diddledan> as in the exposure that I could associate as computer-generated music
<davmor2> diddledan: the one thing that I didn't get until the "Here Come The Drums" episode is that the theme is based on a double heartbeat :)
<diddledan> me either
<zmoylan-pi> gets out the 60s computer music... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjxNnqTcHhg
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: gotta love a good dose of popcorn
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi, diddledan: this was the ultimate in computer music ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV06M-Gqxgg
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXa9tXcMhXQ
<zmoylan-pi> nah this, used this in 80s to beat all my speccy games... but was made with out synthesizer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_I2ch8_TXc
<diddledan> this looks sppooky: https://youtu.be/zpIbO6HEwr8
<zleap> i was watching something the other day and the OS they hard on their computer looked like ubuntu :)
<popey> oh, i saw the trailer for that at the cinema
<popey> yes, looks spooky
<brobostigon> i was saying to my partner the other day, the last time i saw something good in the cinema was over a decade ago.
<brobostigon> even if she did convince me to go see shades of grey. :(
<popey> blimey
<popey> i see tons thanks to having kids
<brobostigon> being any good films is the question. quality not quantity.
<popey> sure
<popey> I don't watch many crap films
<brobostigon> the last crap film i saw i just mentioned.
<brobostigon> i said, the last good film i saw was ST:FC. unfortunatly.
<brobostigon> is that ok me callering her my partner, when we are only engaged but not married?
<brobostigon> calling*
<StevenR> hrm.
<StevenR>  unable to create `/usr/src/linux-headers-3.13.0-77-generic/include/config/netlabel.h.dpkg-new' (while processing `./usr/src/linux-headers-3.13.0-77-generic/include/config/netlabel.h'): No space left on device
<StevenR> except that there is. lots
<StevenR> /dev/mapper/vgssd-vgroot   26G   20G  4.6G  81% /
<moreati> A cheeky request: could a kind soul with an LWN subscribtion share a subscriber link to https://lwn.net/Articles/674653/ ? PM is fine if you'd prefer to not share broadcast it in a logged channel
<moreati> I'm interested in the CloudABI part
<MooDoo> evening all
<brobostigon> evening MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> I love terminal based mp3 players :)
<diddledan> brobostigon: partner usually just means "significant other" without the requirement for legal-binding
<diddledan> brobostigon: so boyfriend/girlfriend counts as partner as does husband/wife
<MooDoo> partner is fine imo, fiance is also ok....other half, bit of fluff lol
<MooDoo> it comes to something when you're eating jelly beans at 11:30 [almost] waiting for ubuntu gnome to download
<brobostigon> diddledan: ah, thank you.
<diddledan> been working on some polymer+webcomponents today: http://syndol-better-place-demo.bang-on.net/
<brobostigon> it can just be difficult sometimes, peoples interpretations.
<brobostigon> i wouldnt have called my gf my significant other before we got engaged though.
<m6lpi> StevenR: inodes perhaps?
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-13
<nucc1> there's no #offtopic for this channel, so i guess it's ok to fire away.
<nucc1> im wondering, do i just send an angry letter to Amazon for not giving me notice in advance before billing my card for the Prime Membership renewal?
<nucc1> i thought this was supposed to be against the law or something
<nucc1> i only found out about the bill on my credit card statement.
<foobarry> by letter you mean email right?
<foobarry> you probably agreed in the small print when you seigned up for the trial
<foobarry> just email them and ask for the refund and cancellation
<nucc1> foobarry: yea, i mean email. i don't want to cancel the service, to be honest, just that the unexpected bill screwed up my plans.
<nucc1> and i would like them to change
<nucc1> btw, it wasn't a free trial that got extended, it was the second year renewal
<nucc1> need to shutdown and disconnect my chassis fan :p. i think it's time to invest in a fanless build :/
<foobarry> people getting excited about maru project
<foobarry> didnt realise my phone has no hdmi capability when i bought it :(
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<gebbione> hi folks, X sometimes restarts on its own
<gebbione> i assume some processes like tracker miner etc are eating too much ram
<gebbione> but how can i know for sure
<gebbione> is there a log to see why the session restarted? everytime i loose all i am doing
<brobostigon>  /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
<gebbione> cant see anything meaningful there :/
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> blimey, afternoon i should say :)
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> just completed donkey kong returns on the wii
<foobarry> now i can get on with the rest of my life
<mapps> hm
<agoodm> set4440
<mapps> ?
<mapps> wassat
<penguin42> hmm, is there anything to be careful of when buying an 14-b22 converter?
<directhex> does anyone want to buy a powerline kit from me?
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-14
<mapps> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> how to get away with murder is good;D
<diddledan> making fun of your malware (a defcon presentation): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeG4KBWB-EY
<popey> that looks like fun
 * popey watches that in bed I think
<popey> o/
<diddledan> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-06
<SuperMatt> Finally writing some useful go code :D
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Chopsticks Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> playing the piano chopsticks or making a mess at dinner chopsticks?
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3m7BZ5tzeg got you covered
<davmor2> JamesTait: or better still https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yu62StlsMY
<diplo> Anyone here use check_esx_hardware.py check for nagios ?
<diplo> Have an issue where we had some bad memory, replaced it.. vSphere is saying its happy now but the memory alert ( although slightly different ) is on
<diplo> with the script, I'm thinking it's a log issue and needs restarting/clearing but can't find out for sure, thought I'd ask here before delving deeper
<SuperMatt> very quiet today
<davmor2> BOO!
<SuperMatt> ARGH!
<Azelphur> I'm happy with myself, snagged a 2200VA APC Smart UPS for Â£60 :D
<foobarry_> 9gag.com/gag/aWmZoD3
<foobarry_> mmm glue cereal
<popey> that is the first time I have ever seen anyone post a 9gag url on irc I think
<foobarry_> you're welcome
<TwistedLucidity> It's like adverts are lies or something....
<foobarry_> risky click
<viper_> hey guys
<popey> ffs. gnome terminal, double click a url and it only hilights the //foo/bar/baz, without the protocol on the front
<popey> the first for this is a field which has been removed from gnome-terminal
<viper_> i had mouse trouble that had similar symtoms
<Azelphur> popey: I think you can right click and copy / open link though?
<diddledan_> yeah, I right-click
<diddledan_> I missed the 9gag url :-o
 * Azelphur is currently a KDE heathen
 * diddledan_ writes a sternly worded letter to Azelphur 
<Azelphur> hehe
<foobarry_> where were you diddledan_ when teh 9gag was posted
<foobarry_> popey already had a tshirt made
<diddledan_> I wasn't online - just reinstalled my system
<foobarry_> chose the worst time
<popey> Azelphur: yeah, right click is horrid though
<davmor2> popey: stop being a wuss and just type it in :P
 * diddledan_ types it in. quite hard.
<zmoylan-pi> or screenshot the terminal, feed it through ocr and then select the text via cursor keys in a text editor like nature intended... :-P
<ali1234> or just use a good terminal emulator
<diddledan_> macos has a commandline prog to pipe text into which then gets put into your clipboard
<ali1234> X11 also has this
<diddledan_> might be called pbcopy?
<ali1234> but i cant remember what it is called
<zmoylan-pi> but then choosing a terminal emulator becomes like choosing a text editor... a life long task...
<diddledan_> no idea about the x11 one
<diddledan_> and of course the x11 one won't work once we're mirified or waylanded
<ali1234> xclip, and yes
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: i'll save you the time. just use terminator
<ali1234> although given that it uses libvte it should act the same way
<diddledan_> I like terminating termites, they're extermites
<diddledan_> ... I'll get my coat
<ali1234> oh, it's because terminator still uses gtk2
<diddledan_> \o/ for old
<ali1234> \o/ for things that actually work properly
<diddledan_> new shiny is new shiny
<ali1234> http://webcomicname.com/image/152958755984
<diddledan_> this one is annoying me: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-color-manager/+bug/1655536
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1655536 in gnome-color-manager (Ubuntu) "gcm-calibrate crashes ("double free or corruption") partway through calibration" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<daftykins> one of the kittens fell in behind the fireplace and got stuck XD she gave us a right scare
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vybexjg54vem60k/AACmwBebzl7JN48EV5HLj9aBa?dl=0
<daftykins> i managed to dangle a long scarf down into the back and she climbed to safety... *phew*
<diddledan_> MS just dropped the prices on some VM instances on the Azure thingy. 1.75GB RAM with 1CPU and 40GB HDD now costs Â£12.75/mo
<daftykins> that's pretty steep for a month o0
<diddledan_> I like the kittybed of polystyrene
<diddledan_> so cute: https://photos-4.dropbox.com/t/2/AADThI9ys8x87x4B0dV5H2L6YD3kXOxUqlEW-KEX9XLvvg/12/54276969/jpeg/32x32/3/1486425600/0/2/8.jpg/EOyr9SkYi1ggBygH/VjjZrwtpW7-Ybxw9rvQVoZr66rjPgIK9koUjH-WKWIU?dl=0&size=1280x960&size_mode=3
<diddledan_> poking their lil tongue out and everything :-)
 * diddledan_ gushes
<daftykins> ikr, i saw the tongue and thought ermageeeeerd camera!
<zmoylan-pi> if those cats don't have names that start with the letter M :-)
<daftykins> Polly and Daisy!
<zmoylan-pi> Molly and Maisy... :-P
<daftykins> what's the 'M' significance? :)
<zmoylan-pi> the m's in the fur on their foreheads
<daftykins> hahaha never even spotted that!
<zmoylan-pi> you hang out on irc in a linux channel and you don't spot tiny odd patterns... :-P
<daftykins> just every user and every way they try to use computers!
<reinoso> thanks to every one who helped me on the 30th of January with my lubuntu installation problem
<reinoso> especially zmoylan-pi
<reinoso> it has taken me a few attempts and hours to put the instructions of the link you put here in place, but now it finally seems to be working :)
<reinoso> so, thank you so much
<daftykins> crikey, write it down :P
<reinoso> ?
<daftykins> the instructions... sometimes sites go down, so keep a backup copy
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-07
<davmor2> Morning
<SuperMatt> g'day
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Wave All Your Fingers At Your Neighbours Day! ð ð
<SuperMatt> All of them? I don't know if they deserve all of them
<zmoylan-pi> some of them deserve only 1... :-P
<SuperMatt> sometimes two, but from different hands
<foobarry_> apparently i got pwned in the justdate.com breach
<foobarry_> it wasn't me guv!
<foobarry_> "its highlt unlikely the data was sourced from justdate.com"
<zmoylan-pi> this is your alibi and you're sticking to it... :-p
<davmor2> JamesTait: Wave your hands in the air like you don't care https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZjAantupsA
<daftykins> i like the piece on Kings College London that says they paid a 'reputation' company Â£1,000 to essentially phone up The Register and ask them to take down news pieces on their IT snafus
<davmor2> daftykins: but they are a college they could just get the students to do it for free ;)
<foobarry_> daftykins: got a link pls?
<daftykins> no
<foobarry_> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/07/kcl_reputation_management/
<diddledan_> https://twitter.com/isoiphone/status/829024728555872256
<luna__> Moms new computer is done: https://i.imgur.com/ExtwknV.jpg :)
<daftykins> obviously not a demanding user...
<luna__> daftykins: hehe i won it for free :P
<luna__> and she wants a computer
<SuperEngineer> Anyone know how to install the snap version of Corebird?
<ali1234> "snap install corebird" probably
<SuperEngineer> error: cannot install "corebird": snap not found
<daftykins> find the right one? :)
<ali1234> okay so you have to sideload it
<SuperEngineer> [that's why I asked. I'm confused]
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: sideload?
<ali1234> diddledan must know since he appears to have made the snap
<daftykins> ah well that answers a lot ;)
<ali1234> yeah. snap works from a repository/app store type of thing
<ali1234> oh hang on
<ali1234> try "snap install corebird-diddledan"
<SuperEngineer> trying that now
 * SuperEngineer crosses fingies
<ali1234> when people package stuff in snap but they are not the upstream, there's a policy of appending their name to it
 * diddledan_ pricks his ears up
<ali1234> also, "snap find corebird"
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: it's downloading!  ...& diddledan can put down ears ;-)
<SuperEngineer> thanks
<SuperEngineer> "corebird-diddledan 1.4.2 from 'diddledan' installed"   :-)
<diddledan_> SuperEngineer, there is a bug that some people are hitting where it can't launch links/urls so you need to right-click+select-copy and do it manually if you hit it - you might be able to work around it if you install via apt the package snapd-xdg-open
<ali1234> snap is great when it works
<diddledan_> personally it works for me
<ali1234> both from developer and user perspective
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: advice taken
<ali1234> snapd-xdg-open sound slike something that should be installed by default
<ali1234> at least on a desktop system
<daftykins> !info snapd-xdg-open xenial
<lubotu3> snapd-xdg-open (source: snapd-xdg-open): Opens URLs via D-Bus. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.0~16.04 (xenial), package size 4 kB, installed size 25 kB
<daftykins> optional
<diddledan_> yeah, it really needs to be required
<daftykins> luna__: horrific desk btw :P
<luna__> daftykins: :(
<ali1234> what impresses me most about snap is how many different types of source code it knows how to compile
<ali1234> snapcraft that is
<ali1234> creating a working snapcraft.yaml is often easier than building things from source manually
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: any clues on what name to append to "snap run"... nothing I'm trying is working
<ali1234> you dont run snaps with snap run
<ali1234> it should just be in the path
<SuperEngineer> ooops
<diddledan_> /snap/bin/corebird-diddledan.corebird
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> did you ship two executables?
<diddledan_> no
<ali1234> normally the snap name only gets prepended if you do
<ali1234> or did they change it?
<diddledan_> the executable is only called the name of the snap when it is defined to be the same - I called it corebird so it differs from corebird-diddledan
<ali1234> ah, i see
<diddledan_> I think that's the case, anywho
<ali1234> i feel like the "append developer name to snap name" thing is creating a bit of a mess. there should be a better way to handle it
<luna__> pimped the box with stuff for mom: https://i.imgur.com/MhY83YP.jpg :D
<daftykins> with three conflicting stickers, neat
<daftykins> now nobody will know what's inside!
<luna__> daftykins: its actully both SUSE and Ubuntu stuff
<luna__> :D
<SuperEngineer> so I try /snap/bin/corebird-diddledan.corebird [corebird loads ok], I hit "request PIN" and get a horrible error msg instead
 * daftykins resets diddledan_'s ears
<diddledan_> yeah. it should give you an url in that case
<SuperEngineer> GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied: An AppArmor policy prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient; type="method_call", sender=":1.185" (uid=1000 pid=9190 comm="/snap/corebird-diddledan/16/usr/bin/corebird ") interface="org.gtk.GLib.PACRunner" member="Lookup" error name="(unset)" requested_reply="0" destination=":1.106" (uid=1000 pid=4443 comm="/usr/lib/glib-networking/glib
<SuperEngineer> -pacrunner ")
<SuperEngineer> [apologies, should have paste binned that]
<daftykins> yes :P
<SuperEngineer> just tried logging out & back in... no difference.
<SuperEngineer> corebird snap now removed
<SuperEngineer> corebird app now reinstalled :-(
<SuperEngineer> maybe I'll try the snap some other day
<SuperEngineer> but thanks for the help folks
<diddledan_> try rebooting
<diddledan_> if snapd hasn't been updated or xdg-open was installed it might require snapd to be restarted
<diddledan_> make sure your snapd is up-to-date and snapd-xdg-open is installed, reboot, and try again
<diddledan_> now I need to figure-out what I've done to cause a package to be pinned so that I can replicate it - there doesn't appear to be any preferences file in /etc/apt and no files in /etc/apt/preferences.d
<SuperEngineer>  snapd-xdg-open definitely installed [checked via synaptic]
<diddledan_> make sure you've done an apt upgrade
<diddledan_> after apt update, obv
<SuperEngineer> will do [both!]
<SuperEngineer> both done... all results 0
<SuperEngineer> [now running the snap install again]
<diddledan_> did you reboot?
<SuperEngineer> corebird-diddledan 1.4.2 from 'diddledan' installed
<SuperEngineer> now rebooting
<diddledan_> I think you needed to reboot before installing corebird
<diddledan_> might be wrong
<SuperEngineer> precaution re-rebooting now ;-) though checked snapd-xdg-open definitely installed etc
<diddledan_> corebird should be in the dash when you're rebooted so you don't need to use the commandline
<SuperEngineer> oooo... 2 corebirds now in dash [1 from app & 1 from snap I assume]
<diddledan_> I haven't tried running both at the same time
<diddledan_> that's likely to cause problems
<SuperEngineer> I'll remove the app centre one again and reboot again to get a clean start... though I thought the idea with snaps was that you could actually have both!#
<ali1234> you can have them both installed, but only one can be activated
<SuperEngineer> the idea of having both has been "advertised" in so many podcast interviews
<ali1234> only one version of each snap, that is
<ali1234> if the snaps have different names then you can install them both
<SuperEngineer> app = corebird, snap = corebird-diddledan
<SuperEngineer> is that not different enough?
<ali1234> what do you mean by app?
<diddledan_> corebird, being a gnomey app uses dbus to ensure only one instance of itself is running - hence problems when you have two instances of itself running
 * SuperEngineer checks in /snap for name in there
<ali1234> yeah that's not a snap limitation though
<diddledan_> I didn't say it was
<diddledan_> I said running two copies was gonna cause problems
<SuperEngineer> He said running two copies was gonna cause problem... which is why I was about to the app :-D
<SuperEngineer> to remove
<SuperEngineer> Update: basically same result [corebird starts but errors when IN requested].  I will try again tommorrow with another removal of app, reboot, bleacbir, reboot again, snap instal etc. [been a long day and eyes are getting very heavy noe]
<SuperEngineer> ^now
<daftykins> Linux folk don't reboot!
<SuperEngineer> what was interesting [whilst I had both app & snap installed] was that ubuntu s/w claimed only corebird-diddledan was installed & when removed it corrected itself to say dore app only installed
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: but they do need zzzzzzzzzzzzz
<SuperEngineer> [& if they don't reboot, can someone sort that out with snaps]
<SuperEngineer> [p.s. other snaps installed didn't need reboot... and they run with a simple "snap run snapname"]
<SuperEngineer> see you all later... pillow time :-)
<daftykins> \o
<popey> diddledan: i just installed corebird, run it, and it asks me for a pin
<popey> diddledan: wat
<zmoylan-pi> your atm pin will do... :-P
<daftykins> :D
<popey> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-08
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<CoderEurope> OTA15 Released ! https://redd.it/5srbvq        |          https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes/OTA-15
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Kite Flying Day! ð
<SuperMatt> Feels like a strange time of year for kite flying
<SuperMatt> Not particularly windy, just cold
<PercySnr> I don't know, a massive advertising hording blow off the side of the building yesterday.
<PercySnr> *blew
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-g8YYPKVo has to be this
<SuperMatt> Maybe it's just not windy where I am
<JamesTait> Not especially windy here now, just very dull and grey.
<JamesTait> It was lovely yesterday. Bright and sunny. Proper spring day.
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's not spring
<JamesTait> davmor2, I'm aware of that.  I think maybe the day got lost.
<davmor2> JamesTait: hahaha
<JamesTait> But as SuperMatt says, the evening wasn't so good.  As soon as the sun started to set, the temperature dropped and the clouds started rolling over.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I want https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AC41dglnM
<davmor2> I love a good storm
<davmor2> JamesTait: I was really excited by the thought of Thunder Snow my two favourite weather type in one sitting
<JamesTait> ð ð©
<popey> looks like a man with his arms in the air as a fart comes out
<davmor2> popey: you've been missed dude
<popey> \o/
<andylockran> howdy
<SuperMatt> https://arstechnica.co.uk/business/2017/02/rackspace-layoffs-370-us-staff-job-cuts-worldwide/
<popey> erk
<popey> you okay?
<diplo> He's already left afaik popey :)
<popey> oh
<SuperMatt> yeah, I got out of there over a year ago now
<SuperMatt> and now I'm really glad I did
<SuperMatt> I went in thinking it might be a job for life
<zmoylan-pi> still not a good sign when you see jobs going in i.t. industry which is supposedly the industry driving the economy... 500 jobs in hp in ireland gone today as well as they close plant making printers
<SuperMatt> Problem was offering managed cloud. Mom and Pop businesses who couldn't afford their own sys-ad, let alone bare metal, would sign up for the cheapest managed cloud offering they could.
<SuperMatt> When you factored in the number of tickets they were raising, time taken to completion, etc, compared with the enterprises, we were pretty much paying the client to run their business with us
<TwistedLucidity> Does PulseAudio do some kind of automatic volume levelling?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> j
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-09
<daftykins> thar we go more places are reporting intel shipping bad Atom C2000s and keeping it quiet, now
<zmoylan-pi> whoopsie
<kn1ghtw0rk> morning peeps
<SuperMatt> g'day
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry_> http://askubuntu.com/questions/761180/wifi-doesnt-work-after-suspend-after-16-04-upgrade seems to affect quite a few ppl
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Safer Internet Day! ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning
<popey> foobarry_: yeah
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjPau5QYtYs safest song on the planet :)
<diplo> Anyone here an ansible user ?
<diplo> Trying to svn+ssh on a new install, want to use a priv key fron my machine ( already put pub on svn server )
<diplo> Trying to svn+ssh on a new install, want to use a priv key fron my machine ( already put pub on svn server )
<diplo> oops focus on wrong screen :P
<diplo> Fixed it (need to except the key manually, need to work around that now! ) and also help is you type /var/www and not /var/wwww
<diddledan> popey: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4M_0_UUYAE_LNe.jpg:large
<popey> diddledan: haha, love that
<diddledan> lol, I didn't mean to target that to you, was meant as a general for everyone :-p
<diddledan> oops @ tabfail
<daftykins> eat both!
<daftykins> yay my mums boot-looping LG G4 is going back under a 2 year warranty
<diddledan> daftykins: what does bear taste like?
<daftykins> it's the CPU cores desoldering apparently
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I've got an intel ATOM cpu which is gonna have to go back when asrock acknowledge the problem (it's a flaw in the atom that causes complete failure after 18 or so months of use)
<diddledan> ref: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/06/cisco_intel_decline_to_link_product_warning_to_faulty_chip/
<daftykins> ja, whats yours in?
<diddledan> on an asrock mobo
<diddledan> self-build nas
<daftykins> SFF PC though or wha?
<daftykins> oic
<diddledan> this jobbie: http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2750D4I
<daftykins> funky
<ali1234> 18 months? that's terrible. loads of people will just think it died without knowing why
<diddledan> yeah
<daftykins> well it's in the docs now
<ali1234> hey popey, i just found out about your "double click URl in gnome-terminal" problem
<ali1234> xfce4-terminal and terminator have a setting for double click chars, it looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/n9cvqqc.png
<ali1234> they both include ":" so it matches the whole URL
<ali1234> gnome-terminal either removed this setting or never had it, and they don't include ":" in their defaults
<ali1234> but looks like you can change it directly in the dconf: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/290544/double-click-selection-in-gnome-terminal
<Laney> or right click and copy url
<davmor2> or right click and open url :)
<Laney> depends what you want to do
<davmor2> Laney: indeed
<marshmn> I don't know much about "WiFi Direct"; but I have a printer that supports it; what I'd like to know is, if I have a laptop connected to regular WiFi - and then I want to print from the printer using WiFi Direct, does that mean I'll have to drop my regular WiFi connection in order to do that?
 * Laney copies davmor2 to the clipboard
<marshmn> I'm assuming that it works by the printer having it's on WiFi AP in it basically?
<marshmn> perhaps if I plug a USB WiFi dongle into the laptop then I can have two WiFi connections - one to the regular WiFi and one to the WiFi Direct printer?
<daftykins> marshmn: yes you have to hop network
<marshmn> ok
<davmor2> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<daftykins> but if the printer has this feature, can it not just go *on* your wifi network?
<daftykins> because that'd be more common...
<marshmn> daftykins: yes, that's possible - I'm just trying to understand the options right now; it's a mobile printer so there is the additional hassle of having to get that added to the WiFi network at the venue (as well as laptop etc.)
<marshmn> but it's certainly an option
<daftykins> if you did employ a USB wifi dongle, you could use the packages that let you run one as an access point - then have the printer configured to join that
<marshmn> yeah, was also thinking that
<daftykins> then instead of you hopping to the printer, the printer joins you (when the device is plugged in)
<marshmn> yeah
<marshmn> I think I might go that way
<daftykins> though i'd sooner put a cable in
<marshmn> which is another option :)
<diddledan> I always shove my dongle in ports
<marshmn> you should ask permission first
<daftykins> ^ and at least buy dinner
<diddledan> when is pulseaudio getting put into systemd? *duck*
<diddledan> I just heard tar is getting put in now (ref: bsdnow)
<diddledan> it's gonna be called tard
<davmor2> diddledan: man we just need and is command and we can time travel
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> also is wayland getting put in systemd yet?
<diddledan> giant lizards are invading: https://twitter.com/spookperson/status/829777392038182913
<popey> ali1234: yeah, they removed it :(
<popey> silly rabbits
<davmor2> diddledan: that's not a lizard that's just a really bad rendition of snakes on a plane where the sfx guy need to scale down the snake
<popey> ali1234: that worked, magic, thank you :)
<ali1234> popey: i just mentioned it to some xfce terminal devs cos they were discussing https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=854585
<lubotu3> Debian bug 854585 in evilvte "evilvte: Allows executing (unexpected) commands via mouse-clicks" [Important,Open]
<ali1234> apparently it does not affect xfce4-terminal as they used the url regex from gnome-terminal
<ali1234> and they told me about the double click chars thing
<ali1234> funny bug though... arbitrary code execution by clicking on a url
<popey> oops
<ali1234> and that's why you don't right click -> open i suppose
<diddledan> did ubuntubsd die? https://www.ubuntubsd.org/
<daftykins> check the channel?
 * diddledan looks-out over the solent
<diddledan> there's a lot of seafog
 * daftykins waves a flag on the northern tip of the island
<diddledan> aren't you supposed to flash a torch in a special pattern?
<daftykins> well that proved to be too distracting to the series of opera singers which stand on the coastline singing out to provide our off-island data links
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> I thought they were for when it's foggy
<daftykins> they're the upgrade to the fires, yip
<daftykins> the torch batteries were proving prohibitively expensive
<zmoylan-pi> pfft, in ireland in 70s we tried nuclear batteries for our lighthouses... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> good enough for space probes, good enough for remote unoccupied wastelands
<diddledan> green light
<diddledan> why is green assumed for radiation/toxic stuff
<diddledan> ?
<zmoylan-pi> maybe because of radium watch dials which glowed green?
<zmoylan-pi> and killed a few people who used to paint watch dials.  now if you bring in ancient watches from that time they can be treated as toxic waste
<daftykins> D:
<diddledan> I had a toy car with that in the windows to make it glow
<diddledan> least I assume it was the same stuff
<zmoylan-pi> i think by the time they stopped using it in 70s they used a lot lot less
<zmoylan-pi> now lick your lead paint and shush... :-P
<daftykins> diddledan: come help me remove this funny dust insulation stuff...
<daftykins> it smells funny
<diddledan> speaking of which, my flat is gonna have an asbestos survey in the foreseeable
<zmoylan-pi> and we lose 1000s every year from radon gas now that we build insulated homes with no draughts to flush the gas
<daftykins> but i like playing draughts
 * zmoylan-pi lived in house with such draughts in winter that i made a kite out of a postage stamp and flew it indoors for amusement...
<zmoylan-pi> the long winter nights really flew when you had a postage stamp kite... :-P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> they were simpler times
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> it was also at the time building model gliders out of wood veneer and greaseproof paper
<diddledan> I'm guessing you didn't have electricity even
<daftykins> with that supply he could've had an indoor wind farm!
<diddledan> I had one of those
<diddledan> I never built it
<zmoylan-pi> well one of my gliders was powered by a rubber band motor i built into a bic pen tube using an icecream wooden spoon as a propeller...
<daftykins> action shot of zmoylan-pi https://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-photo-old-man-in-aviator-goggles-200487461.jpg
<diddledan> isn't that one of the chuckle brothers?
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> radium does glow green. but modern glow-in-the-dark stuff is not (as) radioactive
<ali1234> it doesn't work the same way... if you ever noticed that glow-in-the-dark items have to be "charged up" by putting them in light, that is why
<ali1234> radium doesn't need that
<diddledan> popey: what happened to popey.com?
 * diddledan just spotted your keybase id shows it as unreachable - tried accessing myself and you're offline :-(
<diddledan> ali1234: aah
<ali1234> some glow-in-the-dark stuff does still use radioactivity, but it uses tritium instead of radium
<ali1234> and its pretty rare
<ali1234> in fact radium doesn't glow green at all
<ali1234> it's the phosphors that do that
<ali1234> when bombarded with radiation
<ali1234> so radioactive waste glowing green is a 100% myth :)
<zmoylan-pi> some articles describe a lot of different colours from a lot of different materials
<ali1234> yes, phosphors dont have to be green
<ali1234> but they are usually the brightest
<ali1234> CRTs have red green and blue phosphors in them :)
 * zmoylan-pi puts duct tape over the glowing blue radiation as it's so bloody annoying... :-P
<ali1234> also high power LED lights work by having a blue LED illuminating phosphors which then re-emit the energy as white light
<ali1234> because blue LEDs are the brightest
<ali1234> this is also why LED lights glow for a bit after you turn them off
<ali1234> the phosphors are still "charged"
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/wesgeorge/status/829822138039336960
<daftykins> yay at the telco support guy sorting out the certificate to restore functionality
<daftykins> he also said kudos for using Linux, but i tricked him!
<zmoylan-pi> in daftykins pc's linux uses you... :-P
<daftykins> i do have servers and VMs :P
<zmoylan-pi> did you say shiboleet? http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/806:_Tech_Support
<daftykins> >:D
<daftykins> i just put in a few comments to ensure i wouldn't get the usual browser cache clearing rubbish response
<daftykins> diddledan: also, a much delayed "To me, to you" is in order
<zmoylan-pi> i put episodes of star trek on in the background.  it really gets their attention focused... :-)
<diddledan> I sleep to the sounds of a warp reactor
<daftykins> easy, B'elanna
<diddledan> she was soo gorgeous
<diddledan> those forehead ridges were to die for
<daftykins> pff i thought you were going to say you saw the one where she's human
<zmoylan-pi> i never really liked b'elanna.  she wasn't klingony enough to my mind
<diddledan> while I love Jeri Ryan, I don't really get the love for the 7of9 character
<diddledan> her story was interesting, however
<daftykins> i'm on a watch through on season 2 right now, so she's not turned up
<zmoylan-pi> she was a human who'd missed out on childhood and was trying to work out how to be a human
<daftykins> Janeway should have made her serve tea on the bridge
<diddledan> she can sang!
<daftykins> did you guys see the 2016 film 'Arrival' ? that was neat
<diddledan> oh me darlin', oh me darlin'
<diddledan> not yet
<diddledan> really wanna see it though
<zmoylan-pi> i recently watched enterprise again for first time in years.  made it all the way through.  it has finally grown on me... or there's not enough good sci fi on elsewhere...
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> i have some but never tried
<zmoylan-pi> though they did wayyyyy to much t'pol in the decontamination room
<daftykins> but she was very, very contaminated
<diddledan> I really wanna watch season 2 of the expanse. it's started in the US in the past couple of weeks, I think?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> i'm not sure i even finished s1 properly, but yeah it showed some promise
<zmoylan-pi> i tried the first episode of the expanse and while it impressed me it didn't make me watch the rest of the season
<zmoylan-pi> i'll probably go back to it when i can binge watch
<diddledan> they actually use real physical space flight
<daftykins> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/09/mac_malware_rash/ :D
<zmoylan-pi> that impressed me in first episode of the bird flying in zero g
<diddledan> none of this "go. stop. now come around the back like a fighterjet"
<diddledan> damn, daftykins, now I need to go wash my mac in soapy water!
<zmoylan-pi> i learned all my space fighting skills in elite... leave engine at 50% and constantly changing direction threw off the enemies aim a lot allowing you to plug them :-P
<diddledan> https://www.countable.us/articles/237-preliminary-impeachment-inquiry-filed-president-trump
<daftykins> ooh my
<diddledan> it's getting crazy over there
<ali1234> the best tactic in eleite: stop as soon as pirates are on your scanner and snipe them. you have far better range than they do
<zmoylan-pi> it will go nowhere with the republican majority
<diddledan> also the 9th circuit just ruled that the arab-nation/muslim ban must remain blocked
<zmoylan-pi> but but... it's not as chaotic and fighty as my method ali1234!! :-)
<daftykins> huh? block the ban? :P
<ali1234> you can also avoid them entirely by not flying to the planet in a straight line
<diddledan> daftykins: ban^2
<diddledan> ban the ban!
<zmoylan-pi> so if they block the block that blocked the ban does achmed get welcomed in customs? :-/
<daftykins> hit it square in the ban!
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> that sounds nasty
<zmoylan-pi> english can be such an inpercise language at times...
<diddledan> I'll have you know my thingy is perfectly fine!
<zmoylan-pi> it's his doohickey that's wonky
<daftykins> a good workman doesn't blame his tools, zmoylan-pi!
<zmoylan-pi> well you use windows so what would be the point... :-P
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> that's a good one
<daftykins> :P
<ali1234> as for trump. republicans would be quite happy to see him gone and have pence instead. they are just waiting for the public to turn first.
<zmoylan-pi> i dunno, there's a large mad section of trump supporters who'd gut the republicans if they tried that
<ali1234> no, that group is not as large as everyone thinks. they are just super loud
<zmoylan-pi> and republicans fear loud
<ali1234> not really. trump is pretty much guaranteed to mess up seriously at some point
<ali1234> he will lose widespread support at that point
<zmoylan-pi> considering what he's done so far and hasn't had much republicans standing up to him, i'm not so sure
<ali1234> the hardcore will still love him, but they are a tiny group, like the tea party was
<ali1234> republicans won't stand up to him until *after* he messes up
<ali1234> he is doing bad stuff, but so far there has been no real bad results from it
<ali1234> when it happens, it will be over something that's not part of his rhetoric and completely unexpected
<zmoylan-pi> his tweeting about melanias business dealings may be one of the straws
<ali1234> yeah, but not the final one. it will be used against him when the time comes though
<diddledan> and in the shenanigans news department we have: https://www.tripwire.com/state-of-security/featured/french-man-sues-uber-after-privacy-bug-led-wife-to-suspect-adultery/
<zmoylan-pi> his not been in the situation room for the raid in yemen will be another
<ali1234> they're building a case against him for sure
<ali1234> but they need a slam dunk to convince the population, not just a load of "minor" things
<ali1234> once they have that he'll be gone so fast it makes the last two weeks look pedestrian
<zmoylan-pi> they that live by the cloud find their data is used to hurt them later... not as catchy as die by the cloud but what the hey...
<zmoylan-pi> it won't be fasst. it will take 2 years or so once the snowball starts rolling of legal shenanigans
<daftykins> find their shirts are wrinkled by the cloud...? :)
<zmoylan-pi> but i mentioned placing a bet in bookies of trump not lasting the 4 years and someone in another channel had already checked and the odds been offered were not good
<ali1234> bookies never offer good odds :)
<zmoylan-pi> there were even allowing for that not good
<ali1234> not surprising. might be worth making the opposite bet. at least then you have something to look forward to either wway
<diddledan> "and God said unto Moses 'Come Forth', but he came fifth, and got his money back"
 * zmoylan-pi leaves this irish bit of graffiti here... http://www.newstalk.com/content/000/images/000011/11586_60_news_hub_multi_630x0.jpg
<daftykins> ;]
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> WordPress arbitrary post creation exploit gets a new twist: https://blog.sucuri.net/2017/02/rce-attempts-against-the-latest-wordpress-rest-api-vulnerability.html
<diddledan> the T-man has replied! https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/829836231802515457
<diddledan> presumably that's about the 9th circuit decision
<daftykins> i wanted it to read 'at steak'
<diddledan> that would have been gold
<zmoylan-pi> well it will the papers busy...
<diddledan> will it now?!
<diddledan> I've often willed the papers busy
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-10
<diddledan> I hereby will the papers busy!
<zmoylan-pi> i hate when i a word :-P
<diddledan> I can understand a letter here and there, but whole words?!
<daftykins> it's ok, i imagine Jerry the mouse filling in the missing stuff
<diddledan> are you sure the aliens aren't messing with your brian?
<diddledan> yes, I spelled Brian correctly!
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's lack of sleep.  4.5 hours a day is too little. that's what trump and thatcher claimed to get by on...
<diddledan> lol @ https://twitter.com/nvining/status/829843820506275840
<zmoylan-pi> wow... a keyboard just for emacs... :-P http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/26964622093_4b4a8d73f6_b.jpg
<diddledan> nice
<diddledan> is that out of the space shuttle?
<diddledan> no, looks like apollo
<zmoylan-pi> a flickr group that has a few thousand panels... http://boingboing.net/2017/02/09/a-flickr-group-devoted-to-the.html
<diddledan> I still say it's apollo
<daftykins> but Apollo died!
<daftykins> poor Dick Hatch
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> so sad
<diddledan> really glad they gave him a job in the newer BSG
<daftykins> yeah quite amusing that
<zmoylan-pi> i really liked 70s bsg, our summer project got the pilot shown on big screen at local hall
<daftykins> let me just...
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/AfciYwH.jpg
<diddledan> wat.
<daftykins> is that not gold?
<daftykins> or perhaps - http://i.imgur.com/OwNbtj3.png
<ali1234> diddledan: not familiar with that song?
<diddledan> I don't recognise it
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYxAiK6VnXw
<diddledan> yeah that's not my scene at all
<diddledan> that style of music always sounds to me like men boasting about how hard they beat-up women in their lives and shoot other men for beating up those same women
<ali1234> #notallrapmusic
<zmoylan-pi> #butasignificantpercentage
<ali1234> #sturgeonslaw
<zmoylan-pi> #true
<zmoylan-pi> considering the control panel from earlier i did like this song when i first heard it a few months ago... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIo6qwJarI
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Taiosa> da1
<foobarry> choosing something for my wife that will involve calvin and hobbes
<foobarry> whats the best pic that u can think of?
<foobarry> there's the log one, and falling out of the cart one.
<zmoylan-pi> so many great pics...
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/calvin-and-hobbes/images/1395524/title/calvin-hobbes-hugging-wallpaper
<foobarry> i put that on a mug
<foobarry> she loves it
<foobarry> i was gonna get a mini canvas
<foobarry> evoking summer days , happy tiems
<foobarry> there's also the han and chewie versions
<foobarry> and gandalf and frodo
<diplo> Any of you guys use gitlab ?
<foobarry> sturggling to find a high res version of https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/8b/65/81/8b6581dfdbd2c2381e0026e1ae2ae5a3.jpg
<diddledan> diplo: do you mean self-hosted gitlab or the gitlab.com service? (although I have repos in both)
<diplo> Self hosted
<diplo> Wondering if it's worth giving it a go diddledan
<diddledan> if you want full ownership of the data then I'd say definitely yees
<diddledan> it's quite a well-rounded product
<diplo> Well we use SVN as a business, myself and a colleague use git for some of stuff we do that doesn't have interaction from the other members, thinking if it's worth setting up and then show them it
<diplo> Any issues with updates and stuff seeing that's ruby
<diplo> Well it appears to be ruby from the tutorial i read
<diddledan> the deb is fully self-contained I believe
<diplo> Ah the tutorial I read was to install it manually, deb makes it even easier, will set up an LXC and have a tinker then
<diplo> cheers
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> LXC/LXD is pretty awesome
<diplo> I use it all the time now, lxd not much yet
<diddledan> I'm not entirely sure how lxd affects things, because you still launch stuff with the lxc commandline o_O
<davmor2> diplo: lxd just makes lxc easier
<diplo> So I've heard, yeah slightly different commands diddledan
<diplo> lxc-start -n lxc-ls -f lxc-stop is about all I need :)
<diddledan> I made a joke: https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt-console-bash-on-ubuntu-on-windo/suggestions/18019348-lxc-cgroups-support
<diddledan> "one time. at band camp."
<Laney> lxd is like "oh shit, lxc was actually a bit clunky"
<diddledan> Laney: family friendly :-p
<Laney> you're right, it is
 * diddledan bleeps Laney
<davmor2> diddledan: how do you know Laney is family friendly
<Laney> lxc image list ubuntu:
<Laney> win
<Laney> the only weird thing is that they're trying to pronounce it "lexdee" so that it sounds like "sexy"
<Laney> weirdos
<davmor2> Laney: rather than lxd that sound like lsd
<diddledan> I say it as "el ex dee"
<Laney> indeed, everyone does
<Laney> that makes it more funny
<diddledan> "police suggested the officer's baton slipped up the man's bum by accident" : https://twitter.com/ClipperChip/status/830096784454193153 seriously?! (not very nice subject matter, so treat with caution)
<diddledan> nice: https://twitter.com/CRASH__N__BURN
<davmor2> diddledan: is that the entire script in tweets
<diddledan> I'm not sure if it's the _whole_ script but it is some of it
<davmor2> diddledan: that is funny though
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> hi
<daftykins> heh a place a client works wants to use this nasty blackberry app - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.good.android.gfe&hl=en
<diddledan> supports nuggit
<diddledan> looks evil
<diddledan> I really don't like these MDM things
<daftykins> no
<daftykins> their alternative is a key for the android RSA app and then citrix
<daftykins> so, eww
<daftykins> seems they got paranoid about their OWA setup
<diddledan> how old-school video digitisers worked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vpKsteIzJs
<daftykins> Future publishing stored all passwords in plaintext
<daftykins> database compromised, whoops
<ali1234> they are still going?
<zmoylan-pi> see if they had of put it in ebcdic it would be completely unpenetrable... :-P
<diddledan> really cold tonight
<daftykins> yarr
<diddledan> I've had to put a jumpie on
<daftykins> think it's down to 0 down here
<diddledan> I donno if it still is but there was snow falling a couple hours ago
<daftykins> :O we don't get that ;x
<zmoylan-pi> snow forecast here too earlier in the week but it didn't happen.
<zmoylan-pi> very rare for it to make it as far as were i am
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-11
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<penguin42> ho
<SebthreeBQM10HD> h
<SebthreeBQM10HD> h
<MooDoo> evening all
<penguin42> Hey MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<SuperEngineer> weeeee!....stubborn sound fault resolved!
<SuperEngineer> I had lost 1 channel of my externally powered stereo speakers...
<penguin42> plug it in?
<SuperEngineer> nope!
<SuperEngineer> I ruled out software problem after findind same problem booting to ubuntu, ibuntu mate, solus and elementary [yes, I now have a quad boot sytem]..
<SuperEngineer> I tried headphones in the pc socket and both chaneels worked.  Noe pc and s/w both ruled out...
<SuperEngineer> tonight I decided it was a speakere prob and was about to swap the failed set with usb + 3.5mm set from redundant "quarentine pc"...
<SuperEngineer> on physically removing primary of the externally powered speaker set something rather obvious was proved to be cause...
<SuperEngineer> the 2 core stereo cable connecting the 2 speakers came out with primary speaker, nothing attached..
<SuperEngineer> the rodent tooth marks in the cable were pretty obvious, problem resolved.  Not hardware, not software, but a RIF [rodent involed fault!]
<penguin42> ah
<SuperEngineer> ...expect to see links to pics of dead rodent on this channel if the sod ever tries it again!
<SuperEngineer> Moral of this episode:  don't always blame s/w as cause of fault... check ya hardware thotoughly
<SuperEngineer> ...and keep a baseball bat to hand [just in case]
<daftykins> little bit concerned how long the above went on :P
<penguin42> well, it's obvious the rodent has just taken out SuperEngineer's net connection....
<daftykins> :D knew he'd gone
<zmoylan-pi> he'll need to have insane reflexes to splat a rodent with a bat
<penguin42> bat hit rat sat on hat?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-12
<foli_> hi
<penguin42> hey
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> grr. everywhere I look for a WordPress dev env that uses Docker I get pushback in the form of: 1) the project says "supporting Docker would be too difficult because we'd need to organise yet another VM type" or 2) further to 1, the project insists on running their own Docker VM built their way rather than using the proper Docker environment
<diddledan> e.g. on Linux they'd insist on spinning up a virtualbox VM to run Docker rather than.. you know.. just running Docker on the system as is
<diddledan> and on Windows, anyone running Docker would want to use the official "Native Docker" which runs via Hyper-V using officially sanctioned methods, but these other projects insist on using their VBox VM which obviously won't work because Hyper-V is active.
<diddledan> and on MacOS, they insist on the same as Windows meaning you get VM proliferation draining your RAMs because you've got the official Native Docker running AND a VBox VM doing exactly the same thing but only for this third-party project
<diddledan> </rant>
<ali1234> is it just me or does this cat look like popey: http://www.gopetsamerica.com/cats/cute-cats/thai-cat3.jpg
<penguin42> ali1234: His sideburns aren't that grey
<diddledan> is that cat sat on a pair of lady's boomboombs?
<diddledan> in statue-form obv
<diddledan> ali1234: as to whether it looks like popey, I'm assuming you're referring to his vacant gaze staring off into the distance while someone tries to talk to him? in which case, no, not like popey at all :-p
<ali1234> i don't know why it looks like popey to me, but it does
<ali1234> seriously tho, can anyone else see it?
<popey> ali1234: wat
 * diddledan strokes popey's fur
 * zmoylan-pi arranges for coupon for popey for full body wax...
<daftykins> have i seen one of you guys say before that you can set PA on a default ubuntu desktop install to output to both analog outputs and HDMI on a graphics card at the same time?
<daftykins> got someone in #kodi asking but since i don't run desktop...
<daftykins> yep seems a 'paprefs' thing
<daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38918010 - this is fine
<brobostigon> http://www.allrolledup.co.uk/catalog/product.html?fold=StarfleetOps&file=starfleet-operations hint hint, yes please, :)
<daftykins> http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/15058898.Dad_keeps_his_cool_again_as_he_delivers_daughter_in_the_back_of_a_taxi/
<daftykins> this is a mate of mine :>
<diddledan> daftykins: I prefer the usual postal service
<diddledan> using taxis as a delivery medium is just plain expensive
<daftykins> diddledan: that's one delivery i'd return to sender
<daftykins> pesky Storks
<diddledan> speaking of which, that movie is available for purchase now
<diddledan> https://play.google.com/store/movies/details?id=towjkmEN2Gs
<diddledan> ^ there ya go
<diddledan> oh I forgot you're not allowed to use that
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> bloomin international companies not being international enough
<daftykins> i told you what happened with xbox live didn't i?
<diddledan> probably. I have forgotten though
<daftykins> at the time when i had both the 360 and the xbone, i had the cunning idea of moving my account's location country to 'Guernsey' the day i saw it was there, to hopefully get tax free prices on the store
<daftykins> instead i got "xbox live is not available where you are" and support said "sorry you have to wait 2 months for us to change this back"
<diddledan> ah. grr
<diddledan> that's nucking futs
<daftykins> xbox one kept working fine during that time, but lawl :D
<diddledan> they coulda warned you before accepting the change though
<diddledan> like "you what mate? you ain't gonna get nuffink if you move there!"
<daftykins> indeedy
<daftykins> i have to get quotes for a hotel for me and a hotel for the cat soon!
<diddledan> lucky cat
<daftykins> yipyip
<daftykins> http://dukeofnormandie.com/rooms/mini-rooms/ one of these might do
<diddledan> wow. all that for one cat?!
<daftykins> haha
<zmoylan-pi> well the eu is looking at doing away with geoblocks... not sure how that will sit with various multitudes of copyright shenanigans
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<zmoylan-pi> spent yesterday reinstalling xubuntu on laptop that went wonky
<zleap> how did that go
<SuperMatt> morning all
<SuperMatt> The weekend should have been longer
<SuperMatt> I blame Canada
<zmoylan-pi> mostly done, but now at the 90 90 part, the last 10% of thetask taking the other 90% of the time... :-)
<diplo> exit
<diplo> Ooops :D
<popey> foobarry: are you a backer of retro man cave? May have just seen your name scroll by
<SuperMatt> The new community theme is aces
<diddledan> so I think I just slept 24 hourws
<diddledan> damn flexiondotorg and popey screwing my body clock :-p
<diddledan> love you guys! <3
<daftykins> :D
<popey> diddledan: yay!
<popey> I managed to stay awake all day but I am flagging a bit now!
<diddledan> :-)
<popey> Early night and I'll be reset by tomorrow ... maybe
<diddledan> haha, don't believe it :-p
<daftykins> prepare the coffee :D
<diddledan> anyone want a dollar bill? I got a few in my wallett :-p
<diddledan> I really need real money, but no, I have stupid cabbage-money
 * daftykins raises an eyebrow whilst glancing at the Guernsey Â£1 note
<zmoylan-pi> accepted anywhere locals burn strangers in giant wickermen... :-P
 * daftykins whistles
<daftykins> and sometimes, not even there!
<diddledan> in some of those places they use it as a reason to burn people on giant wickermen
<dave_> #amiga
<daftykins> "/join #amiga"
<dave_> yep just realised that one, sorry!
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure there are a few ex amiga users here :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-06
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> morning all
<SuperMatt> LOOOVE that communitheme
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/playthroughline/status/960895728498413568
<zmoylan-pi> if trump were on far right of that boat it would be underwater...
<diddledan> "Writing NES Games! With Assembly!!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXbMCKMJXXQ
<m0nkey_> Falcon Heavy launch in 10mins.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbSwFU6tY1c
<zmoylan-pi> watching it...
<zmoylan-pi> those 2 landing side by side...
<m0nkey_> That was a thing of beauty
 * brobostigon agrees.
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't look good for the core landibng on the barge though
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: the live feed is just showing a spacex animation.
<zmoylan-pi> https://twitter.com/cnni/status/960982163352104961
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B_tWbjFIGI&t=2307
<m0nkey_> Live view of starman.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBr2kKAHN6M
<daftykins> haha :)
<daftykins> "what's that in the rearview mirror?" - "oh nothing important, just Earth"
<diddledan> maleware? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/9VusjDEE/
<diddledan> bah @ speelign
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> what do they mean by single port access o0
<daftykins> the cascade interface is puzzling too
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-07
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning krikkets
<SuperMatt> morning lizard people
<czajkowski> aloha
<SuperMatt> watching the falcon heavy rockets landing back down again just took my breath away
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> excitrng times ahead in spacetravel,  if we put 1/2 the money in to that,  than we do defence we could colonize the moon, mars and beyond
<zleap> quick question what exactly is ubuntu core snappy
<zleap> just readitis cloud based,  is it a container system so snaps are self contaned applicatons with all the dependancies needed
<zleap> ok it is a cloud based container system
<arsenip_> woo summer!
<SuperMatt> wut?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-08
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> ullo
<andylockran> hey guys and gals.
<andylockran> Can anyone throw me a one-liner that will let me know which process is deleting my syslog ?
<andylockran> Something on a system image is deleting syslog randomly (my /var/log/syslog) file and it's annoying beyond belief
<brobostigon> andylockran: i thought logrotate does the job of rotaitng log files?
<brobostigon> rotating*
<andylockran> yeah, ditto
<andylockran> logrotate is set to run weekly, this file is disappearing throughout the day
<andylockran> could also be aide
<andylockran> I'm having to use hardened images by our organisation.
<brobostigon> ah i see.
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-09
<diddledan> I'm thinking about startrek discovery... it strikes me that everything hinges on Tilly - she's the heart and soul of the crew
<daftykins> never did watch more than ~the first two, just letting it play out now
<diddledan> you gonna wait for the season to fininsh airing and then binge it?
<daftykins> maybe, my latest stance seems to be to obtain, then never get around to
<diddledan> I hear that
<daftykins> for example this 'evening' i lost a few hours to watching a video on how to improve the video output quality from a PS2, identified my RGB SCART cable is rubbish because it has 220uF caps on the relevant wires plus doorbell wire
<daftykins> also discovered it no longer played CD games but DVD were fine, researched that, then discovered it's actually just the spindle not gripping the disc properly :>
<daftykins> oh and then ran a few games in an emulator on PC instead, that runs impressively well!
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> g'night \o
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning 'buntu
<brobostigon> morning
<zleap> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<foobarry> my soldering iron doesn't melt solder :|
<brobostigon> oh dear, :(
<zmoylan-pi> maybe the solder is too cold due to the weather? :-)
<SuperMatt> Time for another trip to maplin
<zmoylan-pi> this time, research what you want before you go, write down the item number and bring exactly that amount of money... will save you a few bob... :-)
<foobarry> my iron is 25w..not sure if broken or just weedy
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-10
<Guest9645> Arthur Rosene III
<Guest9645> 1 second ago
<Guest9645> if MUFON exists all dies.  they are calculating..  they believe it.  tell Chile and Spain.  and USA / WWE and anyone that moves product all night long.  if you don't know what it is your MUFON.  first test last 35 years.   we live forever is me.  that invented rite 90 exorcism me.  we go beyond soforth and forever, even no bullshit.
<Guest9645> Arthur Rosene III
<Guest9645> 1 second ago
<Guest9645> because a welter is above heisman, lampshades happen.  the devil wen't down to georgia is wills to be, all validated holy working exoricsts and priests, and popes, and jesus, god, mary, holy spirit, NO ONE WOULD BE ALIVE WITHOUT ME.  EVEN REGENESIS.   the  next each one is that one ?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> moonin
<zmoylan-pi> moanin
<daftykins> hrmm got someone in #kodi running 17.10 against a 4.15 mainline kernel on a coffeelake intel i3 (8th generation) that gets no HEVC decode support, anyone know if trying a mesa PPA would help, or is that the wrong area?
<penguin42> is HEVC in mesa or is it something completely separate?
<daftykins> hrmm looks like it's more down to libva as it goes, since intel systems use VAAPI under Kodi
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-11
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> plans for today? i'm going to mosey into maplins and see if they have any pi zeros in stock here in dublin as their web site is a bit broken and won't tell me
<brobostigon> maybe a walk into town for a beer or two this afternoon.
<diddledan> allo allo
<penguin42> ow are the?
<diddledan> tip top ta
<bertyblue> !s 1080p
<daftykins> mmhmm
<penguin42> right
<zmoylan-pi> left
 * penguin42 has finally found the source of the nasty hot plastic smell in here; a melting fuse holder on a 13A plug
<daftykins> ooh-err
<penguin42> daftykins: https://photos.app.goo.gl/uNWTSFAd91nX1n6J2
<daftykins> i had a slight burning from getting the new sockets done in my bedroom - and firing up my amp at last, i think it's just the casing heating up the dust on it :D
<penguin42> it's been smelling for a week or so; I initially thought it was a CFL on it's way out
<zmoylan-pi> were you testing https://markthomaselectricaldotcom1.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/fuse-categories.jpg ? :-)
<daftykins> ah one of those full inserts, nasty!
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: haha no, this had what was apparently a real fuse in it - 5A
<daftykins> 16 amps will go crazy for the taste of dairylea
<zmoylan-pi> hmmmm cheesy...
<zmoylan-pi> the geek olympics have started i see https://imgur.com/gallery/rBVCXYM
<penguin42> haha
<diddledan> the question has to be asked, who took a roomba onto a warship?
<zmoylan-pi> someone who wanted it spick and span?
<diddledan> double vibrators! https://www.ebuyer.com/801559-xenta-wired-pc-double-vibration-gamepad-xen-gp-w
<diddledan> now that's a sexy evening right there!
<zmoylan-pi> i thought sony had the patents on vibrating game pads. less sexy when therit lawyers descend...
<daftykins> that'd surprise me, that would mean all phone makers and gampad makers would be paying them o0
<zmoylan-pi> ah ha, spanked in 2012... https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=b7563cde-f084-4b6c-9e0b-0ebcb3d31051
<daftykins> hmm i'm finding that very tough reading
<diddledan> I expect apple have a patent on their vibrators
<daftykins> oh yeah but even when late to the party, Apple 'invent' all the things ;)
<zmoylan-pi> apple been apple they probably have a morality clause in their eula....
<zmoylan-pi> and remember kids, read the manual... http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-43023430
<diddledan> LGR reviews Bonzi Buddy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L958sMz1kWs
<daftykins> hadn't gotten around to that one yet
<diddledan> launchpad bots are spooky: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1748678
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1748678 in linux (Ubuntu) "Intel graphics timeout, possibly caused wifi network to fail" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<diddledan> the ubuntu kernel bot came along and magically knew it was a valid bug
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-03
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> double high-five cross land-mass
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> gotta head back to the suspicious biz shortly, to scope things out a bit more
<daftykins> manager's trying to get me to fiddle about with small tasks on the sly from their usual IT firm, whilst in the bigger picture their entire office setup needs an overhaul :) every single system they use is going EOL in October
<daftykins> Server OS, mail server, desktop OSs are mostly Windows 7, office suite... classic
<zxmoypi> stride in with confidence with a boxset and site licence for os/2 :-)
<brobostigon> :D
<zxmoypi> new version came out in last year or so. can you imagine the saddo who writes viruses or malware for os/2 :-P
<brobostigon> similarly, who would write a virus for haiku, :)
<daftykins> xD
<zxmoypi> would a virus for haiku have to be a haiku? :-P
<brobostigon> haha
<zxmoypi> your files are needed / now they are gone forever / be secure noobie :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-04
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<m0nkey_> (â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
<diddledan> what did you break?
<Chunkyz> He followed through.
<MattJ> Hmm, randomly came back from FOSDEM with 3 Haiku install CDs, and I don't even have a CD drive
<daftykins> :D
<Chunkyz> Ha
<Chunkyz> Was they free?
<MattJ> Yeah, they were giving them out and got left at our stand :)
<Chunkyz> Offer them on Facebook or something, someone will want them.
<MattJ> I'm not on Facebook, can I offer them here? :)
<MattJ> Maybe I can offer them to my nearest LUG
<MattJ> and transform them into a HUG
<daftykins> get a shirt printed with 'mobile HUG' written on it
<Chunkyz> 2020 and you're not on Facebook?!???
<Chunkyz> daftykins: love you.
<MattJ> 2020 and you're still on Facebook?
<Chunkyz> Hap0
<Chunkyz> Ha*
<Chunkyz> Tbf, Facebook sucks.
<daftykins> Chunkyz: you have a short fuse and always get upset when others point out you don't understand a topic, please don't turn it into arguments all the time... it's going to happen too often
<Chunkyz> I should probably delete my Facebook but I'm lazy.
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-05
<m0nkey_> â³ââ³ ã( ã-ãã)
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o/
<ujjain> I've applied to 30 jobs in the last week, 8 of which have sent me a coding test. Unfortunately I'm unable to do 8 coding tests for all companies before a first stage interview. Please review my CV again and if you like it, we can schedule an interview via https://calendly.com/blabla. Obviously, I am willing to do your test after passing a first stage interview.
<ujjain> Is this correct English and is it weird to send this?
<MattJ> Yes, looks good to me on both counts
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-06
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<Chunkyz> I mean afternoon
<Chunkyz> Yes!
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-07
<brobostigon> morning
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<daftykins> i've spotted quite the deal on a local classifieds site, a super fancy Q Acoustics 5.1 speaker set with stands etc for the fronts worth a grand, for Â£400 :O
<Chunkyz> Hi
<m0nkey_> (â¯âµâ¡â²)â¯ï¸µâ»ââ»
<zxmoypi> =^..^=
<Chunkyz> *\0/*
 * daftykins chuckles at the emergency call he just got 
<daftykins> that new biz i've been exploring the setup of, they lost their server and their current firm said "you're not on contract so you'll have to wait"
<daftykins> i went up there, their server VM had mysteriously lost its' NIC...
<zxmoypi> how do you lose a server. you leave it on the roof of your car with your starbucks coffee? :-P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> better part is on bringing it back, it's now warning that in 8 days the free license of VMware ESXi will expire, then there'll be no more starting VMs
<zxmoypi> or is it like the novel server that was walled off for years and kept working but not novell and only lasted a few weeks...
 * m0nkey_ starts a petition to bring back Novell NetWare
<m0nkey_> Bindary tree baby, yeah!
<zxmoypi> didn't every one like typing in pages and pages of dodgy sectors of hard drives before novell would touch them :-)
<zxmoypi> that 200mb drive was a bargin. only 7 pages of dodgy sectors :-)
<daftykins> one per line, or a big grid of values?
<zxmoypi> i remember pages with 3-5 columns of numbers on them
<zxmoypi> 50 per column-ish. my boss saved a few pennies by finding the worst cheapest drives :-)
<zxmoypi> till we started having him type them in and then suddenly half a page... :-)
<daftykins> i've just determined this client is on a 2012 system BIOS for their server which came out in 2012, 10 releases have been made since
<daftykins> er, oops repetition on the 2012
<daftykins> OS was EOL September 2018, VM's OS is EOL this October...
<zxmoypi> freedos \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-08
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o/
<penguin42> west coast mainline Manc-London services saying they're only running hourly tomorrow and taking 4h due to the expected winds
<daftykins> some kinda storm coming?
<penguin42> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51425482
<daftykins> ooh, thank ye
<penguin42> it's supposedly going to hit about 58MPH winds and a 99% chance of rain somewhere around 11am tomorrow
<penguin42> (average not gust)
<zxmoypi> they upgraded all ireland to status orange from yellow and it was a bit of hard work coming home in very strong wind
<daftykins> are you sure sir, it does mean changing the lightbulb?
<zxmoypi> and rain in 58mph wind is technically sand blasting :-)
<zxmoypi> bbc won't be making comedy that good when there's no licence fee :-(
<penguin42> zxmoypi: Well yes, we would appreciate if you'd take all our shit weather before it reaches us
<daftykins> is there talk of the fee being abolished?!
<zxmoypi> they're decriminalising not paying the licence fee
<zxmoypi> allegedly
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-09
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<daftykins> certainly blustery here, forecast says 60mph
<penguin42> we had a really heavy blust for about 5minutes at 11am - then it's calmed down
 * zxmoypi listens to wind outside.... sounds calm enough for daily walk now
<penguin42> yeh it's been OK for a lot of the day - but then about 30 mins ago we had a few lightning flashes and a MASSIVE downpour for a few mins
<penguin42> the guy and his dog who were walking in the nearby park were somewhat drowned
<zxmoypi> ireland was status orange weather till midday. rain so heavy and loud in the wind i could barely listen to election results on radio
