#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-14
<Aquina> HELO
<Aquina> :-)
<ochosi> hi Aquina 
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<Aquina> 'lo charlie!
<charlie-tca> Hello, Aquina 
<Aquina> cu
<pleia2> is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing up to date?
<pleia2> thinking of getting some folks to do xubuntu testing for our global jam
<charlie-tca> pretty close
<charlie-tca> I will make sure then
<pleia2> thank you :)
<charlie-tca> no problem
<pleia2> livecd testing should be pretty easy for a jam event
<ochosi> nice! looking forward to the testing results
<charlie-tca> sure
<ochosi> pleia2: will you be testing daily-builds or a3?
<charlie-tca> daily-live, I hope
<pleia2> daily-live makes the most sense, this will be on apr 3rd
<charlie-tca> We have beta1 March 31
<ochosi> nice
<pleia2> ah yes, just looked at the release schedule
<charlie-tca> hoping to get valid images tomorrow, desktop cd's are broken for parted again
<pleia2> I'll ask you guys before I burn the disks and run off to my event :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: unfortunately i already know that i won't be able to make the meeting this week
<ochosi> (again)
<ochosi> i got really nice last-minute concert tickets :)
<ochosi> (concert was already sold-out)
<charlie-tca> Last chance for changes this week
<ochosi> yeah, btw, i fixed the icon theme with mr_pouit on the weekend
<ochosi> also applied a few last panel-fixes to greybird
<charlie-tca> Last install that worked, I only got one workspace on the finished installation
<charlie-tca> I get two on the live cd
<ochosi> hm, strange
<charlie-tca> But that might have been something broke too
<ochosi> most likely
<ochosi> other than that i think artwork is pretty final from my side
<ochosi> only thing i'm working on now with knome is the slideshow
<charlie-tca> Great! Thanks for all your help
<ochosi> but we'll finish it (hopefully) on wednesday
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> so i think then only gmusicbrowser has to be updated and we're in bugfix mode :)
<charlie-tca> I didn't bother with the single workspace thing, since I haven't been able to verify it
<charlie-tca> gmusicbrowser got the new icon on the live desktop today
<ochosi> hard to judge, my install was always only updated, maybe i'll do a clean install for the beta
<ochosi> ah good to know
<ochosi> so that worked
<ochosi> charlie-tca: ok, got to go now and won't be around much tomorrow
<ochosi> if last-minute issues come up ping me on wednesday (or in between, i always read the backlog)
<charlie-tca> there is an issue with the update
<charlie-tca> In file "/usr/share/menu/gmusicbrowser", at (or in the definition that ends at) line 7:
<charlie-tca> icon="gmusicbrowser.png"
<charlie-tca> when updating in natty
<ochosi> interesting
<ochosi> what version is that then?
<charlie-tca> That was yesterday's natty update
<charlie-tca> the rest is 
<charlie-tca> Unexpected end of line.
<charlie-tca> Skipping file because of errors...
<charlie-tca> copied from terminal at end of updates
<ochosi> have to find the changelog for 1.1.6-1
<ochosi> hm, this version doesn't contain any modifications by me
<ochosi> so no clue why it doesn't install
<ochosi> mr_pouit, micahg: could you check out what charlie just posted? ^
<charlie-tca> Did you run update manager yesterday?
<ochosi> hm, i'm testing/using my own spin of gmusicbrowser in natty to check whether what we'll hopefully get for natty soon works ok already
<ochosi> so i can't say
<charlie-tca> oh
<ochosi> but i'll definitely test this when i'm home
<charlie-tca> and I have the ppa enabled, too
<ochosi> oh :)
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> so what version is it you're using?
<charlie-tca> that might be the issue
<ochosi> probably
<charlie-tca> 1.1.6ppa11
<ochosi> hm, strange
<ochosi> i installed and tested that on maverick, no problems there
<ochosi> i'll check when i'm home
<ochosi> thanks for the heads up :)
<charlie-tca> but this is natty
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> Is it time to turn that ppa off?
<ochosi> micahg, mr_pouit: ok, forget my comment from before, i guess i'll have to take care of that
<ochosi> charlie-tca: well hopefully this week, the gmusicbrowser dev has merged most of my changes upstream, but he has to release a new version (1.1.7) that includes those changes
<ochosi> he told me he'll decide when to do the release today
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> i'll then coordinate the rest with mr_pouit and micahg 
 * micahg will take a look
<ochosi> hey micahg :)
<ochosi> micahg: well most likely the problem is somewhere in the menu-file or another file in debian/
<micahg> ochosi: k, will have to check later
<ochosi> micahg: i decided to remove the xpm icon from debian/ and replaced it with a png
<ochosi> micahg: supposedly it's not used anymore and it overrides the nicer png icons
<ochosi> anyhow, g2g now
<ochosi> see you later or on wednesday
<micahg> charlie-tca: yeah, that would be ochosi's version, not mine
<charlie-tca> Thanks for checking on it
 * micahg is reinstalling the archive version to be sure there are no install issues
<micahg> now that I figured out how to import into git, the next update should be smoother, I just hope it's all bug fix/UI stuff :)
<charlie-tca> I guess I better turn the ppa off now, so I don't pick up bugs that way any more
<micahg> charlie-tca: eh, you might want to wait until 1.1.7 is in the archive unless you don't mind a degraded experience
<charlie-tca> I mind
<micahg> :)
<charlie-tca> I hate going backwards, it really is unpleasant 
<micahg> charlie-tca: do you know anything about exo-mount being missing?
<charlie-tca> um, there was something about it in Xfce4.8
<mr_pouit> micahg: dropped in 4.8
<charlie-tca> I can't quite remember what it broke
<mr_pouit> it should only be used by thunar-vfs for legacy purposes
<micahg> mr_pouit: hmm,was libexo-3 supposed to be purged on upgrade?
<micahg> mr_pouit: hmm,was libexo-0.3-1 supposed to be purged on upgrade?
<mr_pouit> yeah, I've more or less ported everything
<micahg> yeah, xfce4-volstatus-icon seems the be the only binary depending on it
<mr_pouit> yep, I asked from rm after feature freeze
<micahg> \o/ hal goes with it :)
<mr_pouit> s/from/for/
<micahg> should be fine, it break s stuff if it's left
<micahg> mr_pouit: archive rm?
<mr_pouit> yes
<micahg> you can do that up to final freeze AFAIk
<mr_pouit> Bug #724614
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 724614 in xfce4-volstatus-icon (Ubuntu) "[natty] Please remove xfce4-volstatus-icon from the archive" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724614
<micahg> even past final freeze for a leaf package that shouldn't be released
<mr_pouit> they should remove it eventually if they want to clean nbs before releasing ;-)
<micahg> places plugin still doesn't work
<micahg> mount and open gives me an exo-mount error
<mr_pouit> yep, unfortunately it will be half-brokenâ¦
<mr_pouit> you can open dirs but no mount/umount anything
 * micahg still has thunar-vfs installed
<micahg> time to clean house :)
<micahg> :(
 * micahg can't use places
<micahg> mr_pouit: is there a sane alternative to places?
 * micahg has to keep unplugging/replugging to mount
<charlie-tca> a launcher for thunar, that opens to ~/   ?
<mr_pouit> micahg: we replaced it by directory-menu (another plugin) in the default install
<micahg> I use it more for mount/unmount
<micahg> mr_pouit: ah, thanks, will add that
<mr_pouit> but directory-mount doesn't do miount/unmount
<charlie-tca> Once thunar is open, it can be used for mount/umount, can't it?
<charlie-tca> Not quite the same, but close, at least
<mr_pouit> micahg: you might want to try the patches attached at http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6663
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 6663 in General "Port to Gio & Udev" [Enhancement,New]
<mr_pouit> II only noticed them two or three days ago
<mr_pouit> and they are a bit too big to introduce them right now (well, at least if they were blessed by upstream I'd be more enthusiastic)
 * micahg still needs hal for the governor plugin
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-15
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<micahg> now my governor doesn't work, I think I purged too much :(
<Aquina> cu
<ochosi> micahg: hey
<ochosi> micahg: the next release for gmusicbrowser might take a bit too long now (i still haven't got a specific date) and i don't wanna push the dev too much
<ochosi> micahg: would it be ok for you to pull from git?
<ochosi> micahg: if the release then happens in due time it'll be easy to update it i guess
<ochosi> micahg: k, g2g now, i'll be back tomorrow, but i'll read the backlog, so just ping me your answer :)
<micahg> ochosi: I'd only want to take a git snapshot if it's stable
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-16
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, the git-snapshot is stable, that's what i've been packaging/using/testing for my ppa over the last weeks and months
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<ochosi> micahg: the thing with what happened since 1.1.6 is that it's bugfix and ui-improvements
<micahg> ochosi: right, is there a specific version I should pull until?
<ochosi> micahg: no real features were added apart from soundmenu-support
<ochosi> and soundmenu support is really important for natty
<ochosi> it's almost a bugfix imo ;)
<micahg> ochosi: the sound menu integration won't break Debian, right?
<ochosi> micahg: no, it's a plugin
<ochosi> micahg: do you want to build again for debian as well?
<micahg> ochosi: yeah, I'd like to maintain this in Debian if we can
<ochosi> hm okay
<ochosi> micahg: well i thought that the easiest thing might be to just use my patched version for ubuntu
<ochosi> because it's so easy (you can just pull it from my ppa)
<ochosi> and then build 1.1.7 for debian when it's ready
<ochosi> and supersede ubuntu's middle-version or something
<charlie-tca> still getting that icon error from the ppa
<ochosi> charlie-tca: did you try to reinstall or reload the sources?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: and hi btw :)
<charlie-tca> yes
<ochosi> very strange, i can't reproduce that problem (yet)
<charlie-tca> I reload sources couple times a day
<ochosi> usually the buildbot would complain with an issue like this 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i'll take an in-depth look at your issue today
<ochosi> charlie-tca: could you please repost the whole output?
<charlie-tca> please do. I would not want to pull from a ppa for the users to use it, just to have them getting errors
<ochosi> sure
<charlie-tca> Processing triggers for menu ...
<charlie-tca> In file "/usr/share/menu/gmusicbrowser", at (or in the definition that ends at) line 7:
<charlie-tca> icon="gmusicbrowser.png"
<charlie-tca>                        ^
<charlie-tca> Unexpected end of line.
<charlie-tca> Skipping file because of errors...
<charlie-tca> Is that the .desktop file or a different menu file?
<ochosi> guess that's the desktop-file, i'll quickly see whether changing that fixes the issue
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i'm uploading the supposed fix now to a different ppa, i'll send you a link for testing as soon as it's built
<charlie-tca> okay
<mr_pouit>  "/usr/share/menu/gmusicbrowser"
<mr_pouit> that's not a desktop file
<mr_pouit> that's a debian menu file
<mr_pouit> (\o)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: heyo
<ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah, it's in debian/gmusicbrowser.menu
<ochosi> but i still don't quite get the error
<mr_pouit> ochosi: there's an empty line, try to remove it
<mr_pouit> or either add a \ at the end
<ochosi> yep that's what i did and hoped that it'd fix the issue
<ochosi> strange thing is that in maverick there's no problem
<charlie-tca> heh, I test because I have the ability to make things break good
<ochosi> charlie-tca: https://launchpad.net/~simon-steinbeiss/+archive/gmb-git
<charlie-tca> put it where?
<ochosi> add that ppa instead of the shimmer-ppa
<ochosi> and then update the package
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> charlie-tca: and then let me know whether it works :)
<charlie-tca> installing
<charlie-tca> same error
<charlie-tca> now got gmusicbrowser (1.1.6ppa12)
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I show a space in the file after line 5
<charlie-tca> command="/usr/bin/gmusicbrowser" \ 
<charlie-tca> and then a blank line
<charlie-tca> then the icon= line
<charlie-tca> should I delete the file and then install again?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: should I do a remove and reinstall, maybe? Could that be a leftover from the earlier file?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hm, you can try to purge and re-install, not sure it'll make a diff though...
<ochosi> i'll try to install that version in natty myself now
<charlie-tca> purged and reinstalled; made sure /usr/share/menu/gmusicbrowser went away
<charlie-tca> reinstalled but still show a blank line 6 in the file
<ochosi> and the install-error persisted?
<charlie-tca> I don't know yet, I am running updates again now
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> right, line 6 is empty :(
<ochosi> sry, i'll quickly fix that
<charlie-tca> removing the empty line fixes it here
<ochosi> yeah, i don't know how that ended up there
<ochosi> there was a day when commits crossed each other with another contributor, so maybe it wasn't even me, who knows
<ochosi> anyhow, i'll fix this now and build new packages for the shimmer-ppa as well
<charlie-tca> could be, but at least we got it now
<ochosi> thanks charlie-tca, good catch
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<ochosi> micahg: i'm talking to the gmusicbrowser dev again atm and he said: "in case 1.1.7 is not released in time for xubuntu, yes the best thing is to take the current git, it's the  most stable version
<ochosi> cherry-picking commits at this point would be stupid, it would result in an largely untested new version"
<ochosi> micahg_: hmm, you're connection seems to have dropped before, did you get what i sent you?
<ochosi> or: read what i said
<cody-somerville> ochosi, there are some risks/cons to taking git snapshot too; is there anything that can be done to help gmusicbrowser get the release out in time?
<ochosi> cody-somerville: i'm doing pretty much all i can to help the release. what risks/cons are there wrt using a git-snapshot?
<cody-somerville> ochosi, besides the technical things like might not get the normal QAing upstream would do for a release and that we'd have to create the snapshot and put it into tarball (there might be complicated/undocumented release procedures or something), appearing like version 1.1.7 but not actually being 1.1.7 can be confusing - especially for someone say for example in the gmusicbrowser IRC channel trying to provide support to someo
<cody-somerville> ne using the git snapshot shipped with Xubuntu, lol.
<ochosi> cody-somerville: well, as the dev said himself (there's only one) this is in fact the most tested version, since 1.1.6 it's been bugfix only, also: he knows that we'd do that so he can still give support
<ochosi> cody-somerville: in fact i'm hanging out there too (#gmusicbrowser) giving support, so i think that side should be ok
<ochosi> cody-somerville: also: it shouldn't appear as 1.1.7 but as 1.1.6git$date (or whatever)
<cody-somerville> ochosi, we've shipped unreleased code for xfce4 before and upstream xfce4 was not happy about it - users would report bugs already fixed or ask for help in #xfce for things already fixed or things that were later changed.
 * cody-somerville nods.
<ochosi> yeah, sure, it *can* be annyoing for upstream, but in this case he's completely with us
<ochosi> and i told him before that if gmb would be the default player in xubuntu people might start rants in his chan, so i guess he's in the picture ;)
 * cody-somerville grins.
<ochosi> btw, i've been maintaining a fork of that player myself for at least a year now, it's really rock-solid
<ochosi> quentin (the dev) has a debian mentality wrt release-policy
<ochosi> and since ubuntu is based on debian's "unstable" i guess we can use gmusicbrowser "unstable"
<ochosi> (hopefully including a few of the UI improvements i made over the years)
<ochosi> cody-somerville: guess that was all a bit verbose now, but i really thought a lot about all this beforehands ;)
<cody-somerville> ochosi, much appreciated then :)
<ochosi> cody-somerville: alrighty :)
<mr_pouit> When unreleased xfce code was shipped in xubuntu, upstream wasn't asked nor notified
<mr_pouit> so that's a bit different here
<cody-somerville> Absolutely.
<micahg> ochosi, we aim to provide stable versions (unstable just means less testing)
<micahg> ochosi, so, I should pull the latest git snapshot or do you have a specific revision that I should pull up to
<micahg> mr_pouit, are you ok with me uploading a snapshot straight to Ubuntu?
 * micahg doesn't think Debian multimedia will go for it
 * micahg will ask them first though
<mr_pouit> micahg: yep, no problem
<charlie-tca> We need a pretty solid release this cycle. I hear a lot of unhappiness with unity, and just as much about gnome3
 * micahg just replaced pidgin with Empathy(AIM+xmpp) and Xchat (IRC) due to freenode failing with E_TOOMANYCHANNELS, even with 2 apps now, I have a smaller memory footprint
 * micahg wishes pidgin could be fixed
<charlie-tca> isn't empathy a pidgin fork?
<micahg> well, they're using the telepathy libs from fd.o
 * micahg just needs gwibber now for identi,ca and then it'll be all right :)
<micahg> empathy sucks for most stuff, for those services I just need to be logged in case someone pings me
<charlie-tca> I use the browser for identi.ca
<ochosi> sry, was afk
<ochosi> micahg: i don't think it's worth it to package the git-version for debian, debian can wait for 1.1.7
<ochosi> micahg: we can always supersede the snapshot that we'll get for ubuntu now with 1.1.7
<micahg> ochosi, when do you estimate 1.1.7 happening?
 * micahg joins gmusicbrowser
<ochosi> micahg: i talked to squentin (quentin sculo) a couple of times lately, he's not sure... :/ that's why i talked about the git-snapshot today
<ochosi> micahg: so that we at least have *something* for xubuntu
<ochosi> micahg: a more stable version than 1.1.6 at least
<micahg> ochosi, if we're talking 2 weeks, then I agree with you, if it's 2 months, I'd rather have a broader testing base and include Debian
 * charlie-tca likes things that work for the final release :-)
<ochosi> micahg: he was considering releasing it last week, so it's around the corner
<ochosi> micahg: but each day makes it a bit more difficult to get the ack from ubuntu as mr_pouit told me, so i guess i was getting nervous
<micahg> ochosi, well, depending on what's changed, we might not need an ACK, I'll have to look through the changelog later tonight
<ochosi> micahg: ok :) as i said, it's only bugfix and ui-fixes/improvements (apart from the mpris2 plugin)
<micahg> yeah, mpris2 will need an ACK if it's new, you can file the request if you like, once we get the ACK, I'll package it
<ochosi> it's part of the core as a plugin, so it would make things easier for you to get the ack first
<ochosi> hm, never filed a request for ack before, how does it work?
<micahg> ochosi, so, file a bug against gmusicbrowser requesting an update, explain why the snapshot is stable and what the new features are that need to be ACKd, I'm already subscribed to gmusicbrowsr bugs, then subscribe ubuntu-release to the bug
<micahg> ochosi, inlcude the piece of the upstream changelog if it exists as well that's newer and a link to the upstream repo
<ochosi> i'm not part of the bugsquad, so i can't assign bugs to anyone
<micahg> ochosi, I didn't say assign :)
<ochosi> oh, ok :)
<ochosi> micahg: so i can subscribe other people but not assign then :)
<micahg> ochosi, right
<ochosi> i assumed i could either do both or neither
<ochosi> and a separate request for mpris?
<ochosi> or can that go in the same bugreport?
<mr_pouit> mpris2.pm is already in 1.1.6 afaik
<ochosi> ah ok, wasn't sure anymore
<ochosi> then this makes things a lot easier
<micahg> oh, hmm, I remember ochosi saying 1.1.6 didn't have it
<micahg> ochosi, one request, mention all the new features
<ochosi> let me check again
<micahg> or rather my 1.1.6 doesn't ;)
<micahg> I think I said it after I checked the current verion
<micahg> version
<ochosi> no, 1.1.6 doesn't have it
<ochosi> mpris2 was released 24th of feb while 1.1.6 is from last year
<micahg> mr_pouit, BTW, I still had the gmusicbrowser launcher even if I removed gmusicbrowser from the system
<ochosi> micahg: you mean in the panel or in the soundmenu?
<micahg> ochosi, panel
<mr_pouit> ah, indeed, I've download the plugin manually
<mr_pouit> micahg: yep, because the panel does a copy of the desktop file and put it in ~/.config/xfcfe4/panel/launcher-XXXX
<mr_pouit> *xfce4
<ochosi> micahg: ok, i'll do the request later tonight after i talked with squentin again
<ochosi> k, bbl
<ochosi> charlie-tca: the shimmer-ppa is updated and hopefully that version works now as expected
<ochosi> charlie-tca: if you could give it a try that would be great
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> it has the same version number as the one from the other ppa i gave you today
<ochosi> so you might have to remove it before you re-install it
<charlie-tca> installing
<charlie-tca> ochosi: fixed! Yay!
<ochosi> charlie-tca: :)
<ochosi> yes, that's what i needed to hear tonight
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<ochosi> micahg: you might have read it in #gmusicbrowser today anyway, but squentin said he'll release 1.1.7 tomorrow night
<ochosi> it's all good news today it seems
<micahg> ochosi, great, but you might as well file the paperwork anyways :)
<ochosi> micahg: yes, but i only want to do it once :)
<ochosi> micahg: or do you think i should file it even though 1.1.7 hasn't been released yet?
<micahg> well, maybe we should wait so I can just request the sync with the FFe
<ochosi> FFe?
<ochosi> micahg: one more thing: i really need to apply a few UI-only patches to gmusicbrowser for xubuntu, can you help me with that?
<micahg> ochosi, Feature freeze exception
<micahg> ochosi, why can't they be merged upstream?
<ochosi> micahg: too little time
<ochosi> micahg: *most* of my changes are upstream now, but the review process really takes some time
<ochosi> micahg: it's mostly not about whether it works or is a clean implementation but about what layouts to include etc.
<micahg> ochosi, are they Ubuntu specific?
<ochosi> micahg: what do you mean?
<ochosi> micahg: the UI changes would affect every distro using that version
<micahg> ochosi, could they go in Debian and are they submittted in a bugtracker upstream?
<ochosi> micahg: there is no bugtracker upstream
<ochosi> micahg: they could go in debian, but i would want to discuss that first with upstream
<ochosi> micahg: and that would bring us back to square1 about the inclusion of my patches upstream
<micahg> heh
<ochosi> would you mind me showing you the difference between the non-patched version and the patched version?
<ochosi> maybe you can then understand what this is about
<micahg> ochosi, no, but I'm about to run out again
<ochosi> ok, just one sec
<ochosi> micahg: approx current default layout in gmb: http://gmusicbrowser.org/screenshots/QueueLibraryContext.png
<ochosi> micahg: my layout: http://imagebin.org/143448
<ochosi> feel free also to compare the icons and other stuff
<micahg> I'm confused, the first one is what 1.1.7 will look like?
<ochosi> no, well...
<ochosi> UI-wise gmusicbrowser hasn't changed much since ages
<ochosi> at least not the default
<ochosi> that's why it has never been adopted by any distro as default player
<ochosi> that's why i worked so hard in my fork to improve the UI, because the underlying functions and framework are unique
<ochosi> i did a few layouts, the "desktop"-version you see in the screener, a netbook-layout, a party-mode and a traytip (in case someone uses the trayicon in natty)
<ochosi> micahg: have you ever tried gmusicbrowser
<ochosi> ?
<micahg> I launched it to make sure it runs before committed to the VCS for Debian
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> ok, please give the original 1.1.6 version a quick spin and then try the version from my ppa: https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ppa
<ochosi> the changes are trivial on the code-level but the looks and usability are a lot better (imho)
<ochosi> when deciding about gmb becoming the default player using the layout of the fork was an essential point
<ochosi> micahg: ok, g2g now, good night and talk to you in friday (will be off tomorrow the whole day)
<ochosi> micahg: let's keep our fingers crossed that everything will work out in time...
<micahg> ochosi, ok, we can get this sorted out over the weekend if you're available
<ochosi> micahg: hopefully, i have a few friends visiting, so we'll see
<micahg> ok, monday's fine, beta freeze is next thursday, so we need to get it in before then
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-17
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: can I pm you?
<mr_pouit> \o
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: yep
<charlie-tca> knome: got a minute for a pm?
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 20 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<knome> charlie-tca, now i do
<charlie-tca> I feel real bad about the wallpapers. But I really like what we got too!
<charlie-tca> knome: congratulations! Your wallpaper is really very good
<knome> thanks
<knome> sorry, right now i'm busy again with commercial work ://
<knome> (damn last-minute changes/failures)
<charlie-tca> and thank you for keeping the same image for today, too. 
<knome> no problem
<charlie-tca> I know that was difficult to do
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-18
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> ochosi, mr_pouit : i386 desktop installation worked, but I only got one workspace in the VBox install. I have two workspaces in the live cd.
<ochosi> hey charlie
<charlie-tca> Hello
<charlie-tca> I would like at least two workspaces in our finished installations, please.
<ochosi> no clue about that tbh, any ideas mr_pouit ?
<mr_pouit> no idea either, I need to check that
<mr_pouit> it seems to be a bit messy, as I had to list 4 workspaces in the config even if only two are used
<ochosi> i assume it must be a bug, at least i don't remember a conscious decision against multiple worksapces
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> right
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: if it's reproducible, please file a bug, otherwise I'm going to forget
<charlie-tca> okay, installing 64bit now, will file when it finishes
<charlie-tca> <skaet> User Interface Freeze and Beta Freeze is March 24th (at 2300 UTC )
<ochosi> mhm, it's in my diary
<ochosi> btw, charlie-tca and mr_pouit, i wanted to show you a rather subtle thunar-theming idea and wanted to ask you what you think of it
<charlie-tca> You have a link?
<ochosi> yes, one second, my natty install is upgrading atm...
<charlie-tca> ouch
<charlie-tca> Xorg is awaiting all it's packages again
<ochosi> ok, here's the screenshot: http://imagebin.org/143689
<ochosi> (it's thunar 1.0.* but it will work/look the same way in thunar 1.1.*)
<charlie-tca> I like that color shading, but what will happen in detailed view with the shaded lines?
<ochosi> they won't be affected
<charlie-tca> I have every other line a darker gray, so everything shows up easily
<ochosi> i only colored the bg of the shortcuts and the tree-sidepane
<ochosi> so it's independent of the rest of thunar
<charlie-tca> I like it. It drives me nuts to have that pane white
<ochosi> ok, so shall i push it to greybird then?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ??
<charlie-tca> My thought is "Yes", let's do it
<charlie-tca> Unless mr_pouit knows a reason not too, go for it
<ochosi> good, since it's a kinda last-minute change i wanted to be sure, i can wait for mr_pouit 
<ochosi> i already have the code ready, i only have to push "commit && push"
<ochosi> i just realized that the order of elements has changed in the new thunar
<ochosi> in maverick it's home, trash, desktop, root
<ochosi> in natty it's home, desktop, trash, root
<charlie-tca> minor detail
<mr_pouit> yeah, you can do it
<ochosi> ok, nice
<charlie-tca> this just gets better and better, huh?
<ochosi> sure :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i spent/spend a lot of time on fine-tuning greybird, i would be disappointed if it wouldn't get better and better ;)
<charlie-tca> Your efforts are greatly appreciated! It looks really good!
<charlie-tca> wOw! 64bit desktop is installing today
<ochosi> that's good news
<mr_pouit> ochosi: I'm going to do an upload of xubuntu-artwork to include knome's wp, so pleae send me a mail if you want me to get the latest greybird rev from git :p
<mr_pouit> *please
<ochosi> mr_pouit: is it ok if i update greybird _now_ or would i still have to send you an email?
<mr_pouit> I'll only work on it when I'm back home
<mr_pouit> so maybe I will forget :p
<mr_pouit> but it should be fine
<ochosi> ok, i'll drop you a few friendly lines then ;)
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2011/03/18/xubuntu-natty-default-wallpaper/
<charlie-tca> 64bit desktop installed, it has two workspaces!
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I will do a hardware install to verify i386 workspaces, then file a bug
<micahg> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<ochosi> micahg: how long do you think it'll take for 1.1.7 to get into natty?
<micahg> ochosi,well, since you have other patches for me, probably sooner
<micahg> Monday/Tuesday Hopefully, can you point me to the patches
<ochosi> how would you like them to be delivered?
<micahg> well, a patch in can throw in debian/patches would be good, or are they all in your PPA build?
<ochosi> they are all in my ppa
<ochosi> i have never worked with real patches
<ochosi> there shouldn't be much to do in fact, add one file and then change a few other lines, that's all
<micahg> ochosi, if you start with a clean source format 3 package, then add you fixes individually and rename, you'll get DEP-3 headers + Patches, see DEP3: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<ochosi> micahg: ok, i'll have a look into that later
<micahg> ochosi, so basically, with source format 3, debuild -S will take any changes made directly to the source and make a quilt patch out of it 
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> that sounds easy enough
<micahg> ochosi, it will also give you sample DEP-3 headers which you can edit to be appropriate
<ochosi> have to read up on a bit of the debian packaging stuff yet, i only dealt with the basics up to now (and i don't even know what format3 is yet)
<micahg> ochosi, http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/DebSrc3.0
<micahg> ochosi, the distro version is 3.0 (quilt)
<ochosi> so all i have to do is create the debian/source/format file?
<ochosi> and then it'll be format 3
<micahg> ochosi, yep
<ochosi> micahg: and the 1.1.7 packages you'll build for debian/ubuntu will be format 3?
<micahg> ochosi, yep
<ochosi> micahg: ok, so it'd be best to download your 1.1.7 source-package and then change whatever i wanna change in it and then debuild -S ?
<micahg> ochosi, you should be able to pull the 1.1.6 version, run uscan and then the appropriate uupdate command and make your changes to that, I hope to not need any new patches in Debian
<ochosi> yeah, the patches would only be for ubuntu
<ochosi> micahg: so you think i shouldn't wait for 1.1.7?
<micahg> ochosi, packaging diffs shouldn't matter, right, you're just changing the upstream source?
<micahg> 1.1.7 upstream is released, uscan should pull it
<ochosi> micahg: yes, i only change a few lines of upstream and add a file
<ochosi> micahg: ok, i'll try uscan then (never used it before)
<drc> making the news:  http://www.webupd8.org/2011/03/xubuntu-1104-default-wallpaper.html
<drc> opps...meant the main x channel...sorry
<Sysi> topic at #xubuntu mentions #ubuntu-irc-hwlpers but that channel doesn't exist anymore, was considered useless
<charlie-tca> Thanks, fixed it
<PsynoKhi0> hi
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-12
<ochosi> any opinions on this lightdm proposal? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03122012-022300pm.php
<Aquina> ochosi I think it looks quite cleaned up.
<ochosi> Aquina: thanks, it's mostly a recoloring of the existing greeter. unfortunately the plans for something more exciting failed
<Aquina> :-]
<Aquina> I like it that way. Since hardy I use a similar gdm theme (bit darker) on one of my machines.
<ochosi> good to hear you like it
<ochosi> i guess the accessibility-icon has to be exchanged for a more accessible icon :}
<Aquina> cu
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-13
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: opinion on PAE on xubuntu?
<knome> and are we using it or not... :P
 * micahg is for following the Ubuntu defaults in this case
<knome> madnick, ?
<mr_pouit> knome: yes, we're using it by default on i386 images (prcise)
<mr_pouit> +e
<knome> mr_pouit, but not amd64? reason being?
<knome> mr_pouit, amd64 doesn't need that?
<soren> knome: pae? No.
<micahg> mr_pouit: sorry, got distracted with lightdm and bluean again, I won't be able to get to it until tomorrow night
<micahg> *blueman
<ScottL> hi jono, how are you>
<jono> hey ScottL
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-14
<jono> good thanks, you?
<ScottL> doing well, getting kids dinner then i'm working on some studio stuff
<astraljava> ochosi: If you have a little time sometime soon, please have a look at bug #952462, Colin mentions Xfce session handling in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/952462/comments/4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 952462 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubuntustudio 12.04 installer has unreadable text" [Medium,Confirmed]
<mr_pouit> astraljava: you need to do like mythbuntu-live-autostart/xubuntu-live-settings
<mr_pouit> micahg: thanks, I hope it'll be ok for the next beta.
<astraljava> mr_pouit: Thanks, I also learnt this from a later comment on the bug. I'll look into this tonight, hopefully.
<astraljava> Anyone in here using thunderbird as an email app and keeping Indicator plugin in use as well? I find the indicator fails to keep syncronized with the unread mail information from t-bird, thus erratically showing the envelope as blue even when all mail has been marked as read.
<micahg> mr_pouit: yeah, next beta should be doable
<ochosi> astraljava: i guess lionel's reply is what you want/ed :)
<astraljava> ochosi: Sure is, thanks. :)
 * knome fires up the desktop pc and we're good to go
<Unit193> @ping
<meetingology> pong
<Unit193> Ready, just not identified.
<knome> okay, so who's here for the meeting?
<Unit193> I am.
<pleia2> \o
<mr_pouit> o hai
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 14 19:04:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> #topic Team Updates
<knome> #subtopic Package and Development
<knome> meetingology, 
<knome> errrh
<knome> mr_pouit, 
<mr_pouit> nothing much apart from bugfixes: xfdesktop4, xfce4-cellmodem-plugin, shimmer-themes, xfce4-settings and xfce4-xkb-plugin
<knome> mr_pouit, can you repost with #info? thanks :P
<mr_pouit> micahg working on lightdm-gtk-greeter and blueman, should hopefully be ok for beta 2
<mr_pouit> I hate you :p
<knome> it's mutual
<knome> i hate myself too
<mr_pouit> #info nothing much apart from bugfixes: xfdesktop4, xfce4-cellmodem-plugin, shimmer-themes, xfce4-settings and xfce4-xkb-plugin
<mr_pouit> #info micahg working on lightdm-gtk-greeter and blueman, should hopefully be ok for beta 2
<mr_pouit> voila :)
<knome> thanks
<knome> anything else?
<knome> #info PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386
<mr_pouit> yeah, that too
<knome> err!!!
<knome> #info NON-PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386
 * knome 's brain is a bit numb
<knome> #subtopic Bugs, Testing, Docs
<micahg> how many users do we expect to need that?
<knome> micahg, no idea, but it's easier to install PAE
<Unit193> You should be able to go from a mini and install xubuntu-desktop.
<knome> Unit193, yes... but in that case, we're offering alternate too
<knome> Unit193, so those who need alternate, could go via mini too
<knome> there's an item for this on other business, we can continue this later in the meeting :)
<knome> anything on bugs, testing, docs?
<pleia2> ah, yes
<pleia2> #info I'm in the process of improving the testing docs, hopefully a blog post too so we can have more testers for beta2
<pleia2> .
<knome> something else?
<pleia2> that's all from me
<knome> ok...
<knome> #subtopic Marketing, Art, Web
<knome> i suppose there's not yet anything new from the marketing stuff?
<pleia2> #info Submitted web form request to confirm we can make Xubuntu products, no response
<pleia2> it's been over 2 weeks now
<pleia2> so nothing new :(
<knome> :/
<knome> yeah, let's hope we get forward before precise release
<pleia2> I'll try again, maybe it just got lost
<knome> btw, if we change our logo, we need new stickers
<knome> or at least new sticker sources :)
<knome> #subtopic General updates
<knome> anything else?
<pleia2> I think that's it
<knome> me too, it should be quiet after all the freezes...
<knome> #topic Other Business
<knome> #subtopic Seeding GThumb
<knome> okay, so now that ristretto is working again, do we feel like we still should seed gthumb?
<mr_pouit> yeah, for importing photos from cameras?
<knome> but most of the cameras work as uh, filesystems
<knome> there was a term for this
<mr_pouit> mass storage?
<knome> that
<knome> so does most of the cameras support that or not?
<mr_pouit> I think we still need gthumb for other cameras that use ptp
<mr_pouit> (but I'm not really into that sort of things, so I can be wrong ;-)
<knome> okay, it's not too large, is it?
<knome> and btw, what's the current iso size status?
<mr_pouit> we're not oversized anyway
<mr_pouit> amd64: 694M, i386: 679M
<mr_pouit> (today)
<knome> mmh, so not too tight
<knome> (thinking about P+1 too)
<knome> so let's still seed gthumb
<knome> or does somebody disagree?
<knome> no? okay...
<knome> #subtopic New logo
<knome> so, there's a proposal for a new logo
<knome> reasoning is:
<knome> it's easier to drop in to various places graphically
<knome> it works better on small sizes
<knome> it's brighter and more saturated
<knome> and it looks good too.
<knome> comparisons can be found at: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/
<knome> comments?
<pleia2> it's good :)
<knome> yes, i personally prefer the closed shape very much
<knome> is anybody disagreeing? i wanted to bring this to the meeting to raise discussion and to hear if somebody disagrees
 * knome just confirmed with skaet that we are okay to do the logo changes after UIFe
<mr_pouit> so no exception needed?
<knome> mr_pouit, i'm checking with skaet
<knome> #action knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere
<meetingology> ACTION: knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere
 * micahg prefers the old logo
<micahg> the new one makes it hard to tell what it is
<knome> mmh. i wonder if that's true for those too who doesn't already know the xfce logo
<mr_pouit> (I like it on the plymouth theme)
<knome> mr_pouit, "probably best to submit a UIFe"
<knome> mr_pouit, if you need help with that, just ask me
<knome> mr_pouit, or, if you want me to do that :P
<micahg> and the whiskers look like a bunny is hiding in the background
<knome> mr_pouit, the new or old?
<knome> micahg, in the old logo, the whiskers are barely visible
<micahg> right :)
<knome> except in BIG sizes
<mr_pouit> knome: the new one (and yes, please file the UIFe please :P)
<knome> but that's not really a problem with the new logo either... there *is* a gap :)
<knome> mr_pouit, yeah, skaet ACK'd, now just need to send email to docs team
<knome> mr_pouit, okay, we need to upload *this week* :)
<micahg> knome: I think the gap makes it look funny
<knome> micahg, yeah, but the gap existed on the old logo too
<micahg> doesn't look like it
<knome> huh?
<knome> in http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/logo_comparison.png ? :)
<micahg> oh, yeah, on that one you can see it 
<knome> yeah, it's a small one on both, but there is one on both
<micahg> was looking at the website logo
<knome> ah :)
<knome> yeah, the website logo is actually the reason why we decided to change
<knome> micahg, so, do you still think there new logo is weird?
<micahg> yes
<knome> i mean, there's some drawbacks on both ones..
<micahg> but I've been using Xubuntu for 4 years and am very familiar with the old look
<knome> is it about the whiskers, or the mousehead-shape?
<micahg> both
<knome> mmh
<knome> any suggestions how could we make it less weird?
<knome> for the mousehead, i don't think there's much to do except small changes to the shape, since the idea is to have a closed-shape logo
<micahg> thinner whiskers, add back legs?
<knome> would make the shape inside the circle smaller
<knome> also, i suppose it would look weird to have legs but almost no body at all :)
<knome> anyhow, do we think we're ready to vote?
<knome> small changes are doable before uploading, i'll be working on this tomorrow anyway
 * micahg seems to be alone in this view though
<Unit193> micahg: I wasn't fond of it either.
<knome> i could look about making the gap for whiskers bigger
<knome> Unit193, and this is exactly why i asked you to say this earlier
<micahg> I don't think the gap should be bigger, rather the whiskers thinned out
<knome> mmh.
<knome> i can look what i can do without making them disappear again on small sizes :)
<knome> or, then we could just have two versions, but that's in a way suboptimal
<knome> Unit193, do you want to express what *you* think is not right with the new logo?
<Unit193> Not really, that's why I held my fingers, so to say.
<knome> micahg, are you completely dissatisfied with the new look?
<micahg> knome: idk, I'd probably get used to it over time, I just prefer something closer to the old one
<knome> micahg, yeah. it's not that i don't like the old one, it's just a near-nightmare graphically to drop in to various places :)
<micahg> knome: can we go the other way and pull the full mouse in?
<knome> micahg, that makes it completely unrexognisable on small sizes
<knome> micahg, which is why we didn't do that at 10.04, when we changed the logo the last time
<micahg> what does upstream do about this?
<knome> i suppose xfce uses the X from the logo
<knome> and mouse only on bigger sizes
<knome> micahg, do you think the whiskers are too fat in the website comparison already?
<micahg> yes
<knome> what about plymouth?
<knome> imo they are quite right there...
<knome> but maybe that's because it's inverted :)
<knome> the actual sizes are pretty much the smae
<knome> #action knome to look the whisker-size
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to look the whisker-size
<pleia2> that's my favorite action item ever
<knome> hehe
<knome> if there is nothing new to add to the discussion, let's vote yay/nay
<knome> #vote New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1)
<meetingology> Please vote on: New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<knome> mr_pouit, micahg, Unit193 
<micahg> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from micahg
<Unit193> -0
<knome> Unit193, i suppose -0 isn't +0 :D
<knome> but mmh...
<Unit193> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Unit193
<Unit193> Meany...
<knome> mr_pouit, you still lurking around or should we proceed?
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1)
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> not exactly overwhelming support :) maybe a discussion for the list?
<knome> pleia2, we need to push the changes this week, according to skaet, who's now on the chan
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> mr_pouit said earlier that he likes the new logo on plymouth
<pleia2> ok
<knome> also, ochosi would have given +1, if he was attending
<pleia2> good enough
<knome> (that's said at #shimmer though, but it's recorded)
<knome> what ochosi also said is probably true; if we're changing the logo, we probably should do that with 12.04
<knome> and i have to agree with that. pushing a new logo for LTS+1 is quite bland :)
<knome> #info knome promises to work on any suggestions to make the new logo better tomorrow
<knome> #subtopic PAE kernel
<knome> okay, so non-PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386
<knome> was there some discussion people wanted to have about this?
<knome> apparently not anymore... :)
 * micahg wonders if Windows 8 supports non-PAE
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> ouch
<knome> heh
<knome> well
<knome> ubuntu desktop doesn't
<knome> and i agree it makes sense to have a derivative that does
<micahg> well, no ubuntu-desktop supports it, just not in the installer :)
<knome> mmh, right
<knome> but yeah, how do you install the system if the installer is PAE-only
<micahg> as do we
<micahg> install 11.10 or a netboot install
<knome> yeah, but let's say 13.04 is out
<knome> you don't want to install 11.10
<knome> or even when 12.10 is out
<knome> it doesn't make much sense
<micahg> 13.04 probably will not have a non-PAE kernell, 12.10 might not either
<knome> having non-PAE kernel doesn't do any harm, right?
<micahg> knome: you install 11.10 and upgrade to 12.04
<knome> i mean, you can always switch to PAE kernel after installation
<micahg> 12.04 will probably be end of the line for non-PAE kernels
<knome> that's a smaller bad than having to install+upgrade
<knome> yeah, but otoh, 12.04 is LTS, so it makes sense to support non-PAE there
<knome> if 12.10 is PAE-only, then it is, and we have to live with it
<pleia2> it would be nice to have the same support as regular ubuntu in this regard
<pleia2> so keep non-pae with lts, then drop it after
<micahg> knome: well, if the installer work happens anyways and it won't break anything, I wouldn't mind shipping the non-PAE kernel
<micahg> pleia2: the Ubuntu ISOs for 12.04 will ship the PAE kernel for i386
<knome> micahg, we've filed a bug today and cjwatson is the assignee, and will work it out
<pleia2> micahg: oh, oops
<pleia2> maybe we should too :\
<micahg> so, if it's not too much work and won't break anything, I don't mind either way
<knome> pleia2, except in that case, those users with processors that do not support PAE will need to install 11.0 and upgrade to 12.04
<micahg> knome: which is either a 10+ year old desktop or a 5+ year old laptop/netbook
<knome> if it's too much work or breaks things, i'm sure we'll hear about this and can rethink
<pleia2> knome: as I understand it, the number of users this impacts is on the low side (and it's not like we'll have a fleet of people installing xubuntu servers)
<micahg> pleia2: right, that's why I'm ambivalent about the whole thing
<knome> micahg, yes, but we say on our website that xubuntu works on older hardware too
<knome> pleia2, the number of users who need alternate is on the low side too
<micahg> knome: it will work :), just depends what you define as old, you can't run Xubuntu on a P1
<pleia2> my p3 laptop won't run pae, but my p3 laptop also kernel panics when I look at it wrong
<knome> micahg, but you do agree with me that we can use non-PAE if it just works? :)
<knome> mr_pouit +1'd non-PAE
<knome> he's going to love me for highlighting him so many times...
<micahg> knome: yes, as those installinig 32 bit xubuntu vs 64 bit will probably have less than 3GB RAM
<knome> okay, good
<knome> #info cjwatson will look at using non-PAE kernel with xubuntu precise i386, knome to follow-up with him if problems arises
<knome> so, now the old action items
<knome> #action pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in 
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in
<knome> carried on
<knome> #action knome to design flyers
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to design flyers
<knome> carried on
<knome> wallpaper is finalized
<knome> madnick provided code
<knome> shortcuts are in
<knome> wallpaper is in the repo
<knome> xfce package revs ok
<knome> #action pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs 
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs
<knome> #action pleia2 to gather content for flyers 
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to gather content for flyers
<knome> and wikipage is set
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 14 20:22:38 2012 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-03-14-19.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-03-14-19.04.html
<knome> thanks everybody for attending
 * knome needs to lay on the sofa for a while
<knome> i'll update the minutes after that
<pleia2> thanks knome :)
<Unit193> Great, thanks knome.
<mr_pouit> (yeah, sorry, that was dinner time, a bit complicated to skip :P)
<Unit193> Why would you?
<mr_pouit> to vote during the meeting ;D
 * mr_pouit hides
<knome> minutes are up
<knome> bbl
<pleia2> tweeted
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-15
<robin_> Hi! Brand newbie to Linux, just arrived here, trying X-Chat for the first time. And bravely - or foolishly - testing Xubu 12.04 today!
<robin_> is anyone here this evening?
<pleia2> welcome robin_ :) thanks for testing!
<pleia2> I ran some iso tests for installs on Sunday
<robin_> I'm not sure I'll be much good as a tester, but I'd love to help! My Xubu has sent four "crash reports" in, so I hope that helps in some way
<robin_> The installer balked on the first attempt, but went ahead on the second... updates failed this morning because my "/temp" folder was too full...
<pleia2> a "good tester" is someone who uses it and reports bugs when they happen, so it sounds like you're well on your way :)
<robin_> didn't know how to empty it, but opened it as root and deleted abuncha stuff to make room for the updates. 
<robin_> Oh, so the "automatic report" thingy is actually sending a bug report?
<robin_> updates worked after that... is that a bug?
<pleia2> I think so
<pleia2> not sure if that's a bug, when you installed did you set up the partitions yourself, or just let it put everything together?
<robin_> I inherited an old Dell with Xubu Lucid on it. The new installer offered an "upgrade," so I assume it left the existing partitions intact
<pleia2> packages should end up in /var/cache/apt/archive/ and if /var fills up then you do end up having problems
<pleia2> err archives/
<pleia2> so that's probably what happened
<robin_> "/" is 20 gb, "/swap" is 1 gig (twice my RAM), and "/home" has the rest of the drive.  Um, at least it WAS set up that way when it had Lucid
<pleia2> so in that case /var would be in /, I could see that filling up
<robin_> Okay, so when I emptied the trash and deleted all that stuff from /temp, did that really fix it or should I keep looking?
<pleia2> robin_: if you go to System > System Monitor
<pleia2> you can click on the "File Systems" tab and see how much space you have
<pleia2> if "/" is a high percentage, you may run into problems in the future again
<robin_> Um, I don't have a System icon... is it in the right-click menu?
<pleia2> yeah, in the right click menu
<pleia2> sorry
<robin_> nope. LOL how do I find System Monitor from the right-click menu? Got abuncha leftover settings from the previous owner (set up on Xubu Lucid)
<pleia2> do you have a "System" section of the right click menu?
<pleia2> oh right, by default it's Right Click and then maybe Applications
<robin_> scrolling all the way thru all the options, don't see system monitor among the choices
 * pleia2 checks her other system
<pleia2> yes, that's it
<pleia2> right click, Applications > System > System Monitor
<pleia2> (Applications should be at the bottom of the menu)
<robin_> Right Click > Applications > System > synaptic, gigalo, other stuff listed, no system monitor
<pleia2> huh, maybe it's something I installed somewhere along the way
<pleia2> how about this, open a terminal and type: df -h
<robin_> lol, I should open synaptic and look for "system monitor" then?
<pleia2> nah, I was actually just suggesting to use that because it would be easier
<pleia2> not easier if it's not installed!
<robin_> robin@robin-Dell-DE051:~$ df -h
<robin_> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<robin_> /dev/sda2        19G   18G  8.0K 100% /
<robin_> udev            240M  4.0K  240M   1% /dev
<robin_> tmpfs            99M  772K   99M   1% /run
<robin_> none            5.0M     0  5.0M   0% /run/lock
<robin_> none            247M   80K  247M   1% /run/shm
<robin_> /dev/sda3        54G  1.8G   50G   4% /home
<robin_> robin@robin-Dell-DE051:~$ 
<pleia2> there's your trouble :(
<pleia2> is completely full
<pleia2> err /
<robin_> omygoodness....
<robin_> that's alot of stuff! what'll I do?
<pleia2> you can look around your system and see if there are applications you don't want and uninstall them
<pleia2> also do: sudo apt-get clean
<pleia2> that will remove old packages that you downloaded (they are already installed, the package files are just hanging around)
<robin_> AFTER I remove stuff I don't use, right?
<pleia2> clean usually frees up a little space
<pleia2> you can do it first, it doesn't uninstall anything
<robin_> okay, here goes
<robin_> robin@robin-Dell-DE051:~$ sudo apt-get clean
<robin_> [sudo] password for robin: 
<robin_> robin@robin-Dell-DE051:~$ 
<pleia2> now do df -h again
<robin_> did it do anything? (I entered my password)
<pleia2> see if it's still 100, or if Avail has changed anything
<pleia2> yes, if it is quiet then it did it's job without err :)
<robin_> robin@robin-Dell-DE051:~$ df -h
<robin_> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<robin_> /dev/sda2        19G   18G  160M 100% /
<robin_> udev            240M  4.0K  240M   1% /dev
<robin_> tmpfs            99M  772K   99M   1% /run
<robin_> none            5.0M     0  5.0M   0% /run/lock
<robin_> none            247M   80K  247M   1% /run/shm
<robin_> /dev/sda3        54G  1.8G   50G   4% /home
<robin_> robin@robin-Dell-DE051:~$ 
<pleia2> there, you went from 8.0K to 160M available
<pleia2> which is a little space :)
<robin_> gained a few there, lol
<robin_> Got an 80-gb drive is all, too little for Xubu?
<pleia2> my / is 12G which is on the small side
<pleia2> you probably have a lot of applications installed, which is fine, but you may want a larger / partition if you want that
<pleia2> your home directory has 54 gigs, and you're only use 2 of them
<pleia2> so I'd resize home, and give some of that space to /
<pleia2> (this can be done from a livecd just gparted)
<pleia2> s/just/using
<robin_> so i should change my partition scheme, make more room for Xubu then
<pleia2> yeah
<robin_> If I boot from the LiveCD, doesn't it make me reinstall Xubu from scratch again?
<pleia2> you don't need to run the installer at all, you can just use the LiveCD to run the gparted application
<robin_> Or do I "run" the LiveCD from an already-running Xubu session?
<pleia2> I haven't actually done this with the graphical tools, looking up docs now
<pleia2> but you would reboot your computer, and boot with the LiveCD in to "Try Xubuntu"
<robin_> so I don't BOOT from the LiveCD, I just run it from say, the file manager. Is that correct?
<robin_> sorry, lag
<pleia2> oh wait, this is harder than I thought
<pleia2> I forgot that I use LVM, so all this is easy
<robin_> lol it's great that you're helping me!
<robin_> a newbie has no business testing anywayz, lol
<pleia2> oh no, we need newbies testing!
<robin_> OH! Wow, really!?!?
<pleia2> instead of doing all this, I'd just uninstall applications you don't use and try to get by with the existing partitions
<pleia2> if you ever want to back up your data and reinstall, I'd put everything into one partition (rather than having a separate /home)
<robin_> omygosh... i was thinking of throwing LibreOffice on
<robin_> for school I need more than just the Abiword and Gnumeric
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> you say this came with lucid?
<robin_> yes ma'am or sir
<pleia2> 20G was more back in the lucid days :) but that's 4 years ago now
<robin_> it's really old... a hand-me-down
<pleia2> (and ma'am, thank you :))
<robin_> how much space is good for Xubu in "/" partition now?
<pleia2> on my newly installed laptop I gave the whole disk except for swap to /
<pleia2> no /home partition at all
<pleia2> so I don't need to worry about one partition having more space than another and wasting it
<robin_> doesn't that prevent me from saving stuff when the next version comes out?
<pleia2> reinstalls (rather than upgrading) with the CD is the main reason for a separate /home that I hear people use
<pleia2> but I just upgrade
<pleia2> no CD, when the box pops up to tell me a new version is out, I upgrade :)
<robin_> Might just give Xubu the whole drive... how much swap should I set aside? It's an old dinosaur, 512 of RAM
<pleia2> 1G is good
<robin_> okay, if I reinstall I'll lose abunch stuff tho, right? Unless I back up? Or can I use G-parted to just give Xubu all but 1 gig of swap?
<robin_> not very clear was I... If I resize the existing partitions with the LiveCD, will I lose data?
<pleia2> yeah, a reinstall would wipe your whole system
<pleia2> it's tricky to resize partitions
<robin_> eewwww... too geeky for me, lol
<pleia2> hehe
<robin_> so much of what I've read in the forums suggests a separate /data partition or a separate /home one
<pleia2> yeah, and you can reinstall with a separate /home, but since you're only using 2G of the 54G, maybe a smaller /home :)
<pleia2> do you have a /data ?
<robin_> Is it possible to resize without reinstalling?
<robin_> Nope... I have "/", "swap" and "/"
<pleia2> yeah, it's posible
<robin_> too geeky for a newbie?
<pleia2> not a /data partition, but a /data directory (where do you put your music and stuff?)
<robin_> um, it's in "Robin / Music
<pleia2> ah ok, so probably in your home directory
<pleia2> I actually need to run out
<robin_> Thanks for being so nice!!
<robin_> I'll expand my geek skillz, lol
<pleia2> you're welcome
<robin_> G'night, then, I'll try it tomorrow after school. Thanks!!
<knome> madnick, now it's not too late :P
<knome> micahg, hey?
<knome> micahg, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/logo_bigsizes.png
<knome> micahg, better?
<ochosi> hi leo-unglaub 
<leo-unglaub> good morning
<ochosi> morning? i thought you're in my timezone :}
<leo-unglaub> yes i am...but i just wake up an thought: shit, i am to late for work..
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> actually there's something i wanted to ask you
<leo-unglaub> sure. go ahead
<knome> madnick, ?
<micahg> knome: âfile not found
<knome> micahg, ah, sorry
<knome> micahg, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/logo-lightbg-large.png
<knome> that would be it
<micahg> whiskers are better ;)
<knome> okay good
<knome> now do you think there is anything i can make the head look more like a mousehead?
<leo-unglaub> hmm, i have a little problem with some applications like thunderbird, chrome and some others
<leo-unglaub> the little arrow in the right bottom corner is mission
<knome> mission? :)
<leo-unglaub> MISSING
<leo-unglaub> so it's sometimes very hard to resize the windows
<leo-unglaub> damn caps lock ..
<knome> leo-unglaub, alt+rightclick+drag...
<knome> ochosi, we *REALLY* need that article
<leo-unglaub> wow, great !
<leo-unglaub> thanks!
 * knome tweeted that
<knome> micahg, ?any suggestions?
<knome> -?
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i know. it kinda sucks that ubuntu dropped the gtk2 patch for resize-grips
<knome> any way to revert for xubuntu?
<ochosi> not really
<ochosi> it's in gtk2 itself
<ochosi> as long as we're not the ones maintaining it...
<ochosi> also: it created problems with quite a few apps (ooffice etc)
<leo-unglaub> every java based tool if i remember it right
<leo-unglaub> hmm, maybe you can help me with that to: on gnome2 i had a tool witch allowed me to draw on my screen with my pointer...
<leo-unglaub> but i don't remember the name, is there something in xfce similar tot that?
<ochosi> hm, not that i know of
<ochosi> there was only that (slightly useless) plugin for compiz with which you could draw fire
<ochosi> but what do you really want to do/achieve?
<leo-unglaub> i give speeches / key nodes very often
<leo-unglaub> and if you show simething on the beamer it's very usefull
<leo-unglaub> if you can mark parts of a website or something if someone has questions
<ochosi> hm, right
<knome> madnick, ?
<knome> pleia2, hullo!
<pleia2> hey knome 
<knome> pleia2, do you know off your head how to block all traffic from a subdomain ?
<knome> i tried to use dd-wrt for this, but it failed
<pleia2> in iptables?
<knome> whatever works for me
<knome> except the obvious adblock :PP
<knome> must be at least computer-wide
<pleia2> what's the context? a subdomain going to a webserver? or your desktop ..or?
<knome> it's a subdomain for a website, yeah
<knome> i'll PM
<micahg> knome: apache rewrite based on referral header not working?
<knome> micahg, i don't own the website
<micahg> knome: you don't own the from or the to?
<knome> to
<knome> i have full access to the clients, but no access to the server
<knome> well, except read access, otherwise i wouldn't be blocking, right? :P
<leo-unglaub> so, i am on my way home...
<leo-unglaub> see you later
<knome> see you
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: i was looking into the parole things
<leo-unglaub> but i don't find the repos, http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/parole don't contain the right link
<micahg> I thought parole was hosted on launchpad
<leo-unglaub> accorsing to the site http://git.xfce.org/git/apps/parole
<micahg> leo-unglaub: http://git.xfce.org/apps/parole
<leo-unglaub> thanks
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: maybe it's better if you do a mockup
<leo-unglaub> because otherwize we have to re-do the work to often :)
<knome> huho, running a syndaemon command killed my mouse - left click didn't work... :P
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: ok, i'll do that straight away
<leo-unglaub> thats nice, because some of the things there are in the current source code
<leo-unglaub> so i don't get mixed up
<ochosi> sure, give me ~10min
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: http://imagebin.org/203679
<leo-unglaub> oh, what interesting show in there...never head of hear *giggle*
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i thought you might like that
<knome> pleia2, pingping!!
<knome> pleia2, see #xubuntu
<leo-unglaub> BAZINGA
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: actually, this should be about it: http://imagebin.org/203682
<ochosi> (reworked it again and made it simpler, i don't think the two lines are even necessary
<ochosi> )
<ochosi> i'll watch that episode now if you don't mind, so i'll be back in about 25
<leo-unglaub> okay
<leo-unglaub> have fun
<ochosi> re
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: feel free to ping me anytime anything is unclear or you want feedback/testing
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: yes, i am running the build right now
<ochosi> cool
<leo-unglaub> damn
<ochosi> "damn" as in: damn parole looks far better now?
<leo-unglaub> upgrading to 12.04 was an error...
<ochosi> yeah, too early
<leo-unglaub> this version is still sooo buggggy
<ochosi> i dunno how an LTS can still be so buggy at beta status
<leo-unglaub> not even in debian experimental are soo much buggs
<leo-unglaub> and if you keep in mind that 12.04 is based in a currently stable release
<ochosi> yeah, canonical has really started stirring things up lately
<leo-unglaub> they just upgraded some packages...
<leo-unglaub> yes, sience they try to be like apple, they just build shit
<leo-unglaub> i mean..look an unity
<leo-unglaub> or the global menu
<leo-unglaub> hiding the user menÃ¼....so the user has to move the mouse over the complete monitor jsut to see the menu...
<ochosi> heh, you're in the right channel not to get flamed for that :)
<leo-unglaub> i still don't get how hat this idea
<ochosi> yeah...
<leo-unglaub> i have 3 time 26 zoll monitors...so imagen how much km i did every day
<micahg> Debian has 500+ developers, Ubuntu has much fewer
<leo-unglaub> the funny thing is, i was in an irc question hour with the ubuntu founder once..
<leo-unglaub> i asked the same question
<micahg> also, Debian has dedicated package maintainers, Ubuntu does not
<leo-unglaub> and suddenly i got kicked *g*
<leo-unglaub> micahg: gut ubuntu ist based on debian to 70% 
<leo-unglaub> gut = but
<micahg> leo-unglaub: yes, but the 25% difference can potentially break the other 75% (toolchain and such)
<leo-unglaub> yes
<leo-unglaub> but no one can explain me how they manage to get the distro after every release so unstable in a couple of days..
<micahg> new toolchain lands immediately :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-16
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: so is it really just re-ordering stuff in glade or is it more complicated?
<leo-unglaub> 90 % re-ordering
<leo-unglaub> why?
<ochosi> just curious
<leo-unglaub> do you know glade?
<ochosi> no
<leo-unglaub> glade himself is simple
<ochosi> i mean it's xml or something alike, so it's rather readable
<leo-unglaub> drag and drop the elements you need into it
<ochosi> i've only worked with gtk in perl
<ochosi> right, so there's an editor for that?
<leo-unglaub> yes
<leo-unglaub> called glade
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> i'll quickly install it to see what it's about
<leo-unglaub> yes, simply install glade and glade-xfce for some specials
<leo-unglaub> and you need glade-gtk2 to, because the ui files are very old
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: hmm, actually the d'n'd doesn't work very well
<leo-unglaub> *g*
<leo-unglaub> yes, thats glade 
<ochosi> it looks ugly and it feels dirty to do an interface that way
<ochosi> i think i'd rather write the xml by hand
<leo-unglaub> every time i hear someone say: "doesn't work very well" i know you are talking about glade or javascript *g*
<ochosi> hehe
<leo-unglaub> believe me, in huge projects you start to love glade
<leo-unglaub> in hannasql for example i have more thant 60 ui files
<leo-unglaub> but they are not created with glade 
<ochosi> yeah, but this is just a simple media player...
<ochosi> i'm sure there are sensible applications for glade, i guess otherwise no-one would have gone through the trouble of writing an "interface to create interfaces"
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: i think i'll slowly but surely hit the bed
<knome> ochosi, don't hit hard or you'll hurt yourself
<Unit193> What'd the bed do to you even?
 * knome can only think of good things about ochosi's bed
<knome> errrm ;)
<ochosi> pff, that came out wrong (i hope)
<ochosi> :)
<knome> hehe, that came out wrong intentionally :P
<ochosi> anyway, would be cool if you could quickly test the workaround in #3 of this bugreport: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-volumed/+bug/883485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883485 in xfce4-volumed "Pulse Audio don't get unmuted when XF86AudioMute is used" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<ochosi> it's such an annoying bug that we should really get that fixed for precise
<knome> me? well i'm going to bed soon too
<ochosi> or at least worked around
<ochosi> it's pretty simple, just execute a command in term and restart your session
<ochosi> then try to mute/unmute
<ochosi> (maybe reboot if session doesn't do it)
<knome> i can't! i'm playing minesweeper!
<ochosi> awwwh :)
<knome> i can test it tomorrow
<knome> just remind me
<ochosi> hmm, ok :/
<ochosi> i'm off now, see you!
<knome> see ya!
<astraljava> Just to annoy knome further, seems my target of infatuation is on her way to another victory again... *smirk*
<astraljava> *gah* Spoke too soon. *sigh*
<leo-unglaub> good morning
<astraljava> o/
<ochosi> hey leo-unglaub 
<leo-unglaub> hi
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: i failed last night
<leo-unglaub> i was not able to finish the compiling
<leo-unglaub> i have a dep problem
<leo-unglaub> and no idea why
<leo-unglaub> all needet packages are installed
<leo-unglaub> but still broken
<ochosi> hm, what does the compiler say?
<leo-unglaub> missing the gstreamer packages
<leo-unglaub> but they are isntalled
<ochosi> the -dev packages as well?
<leo-unglaub> ....
<ochosi> huhu
<leo-unglaub> yes
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> ok :)
<leo-unglaub> of course
<ochosi> for a second i thought...
<leo-unglaub> hehe
<ochosi> so the gstreamer stuff isn't found?
<leo-unglaub> i did an error like this once...but this is 6 years ago *g*
<ochosi> maybe you need some parameters for configure?
<leo-unglaub> it's installed in the default pathes, but i also tryed given the path 
<ochosi> ok, i'll quickly try to compile from git
<ochosi> autogen.sh finished without errors
<mr_pouit> (or sudo apt-get install build-dep parole might help too)
<ochosi> (and i don't have any gstreamer*-dev stuff installed)
<ochosi> yup, good point
<mr_pouit> apt-get build-dep parole, sorry
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: if you send me your changes i can quickly compile them in :)
<leo-unglaub> ...
<leo-unglaub> are you in 12.04?
<leo-unglaub> because i was
<ochosi> nope, 11.10
<leo-unglaub> hmm, maybe thatsw the reason
<leo-unglaub> i can send you the changes when i come home
<leo-unglaub> currently i am in the offic
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: sure sure, anytime
<Unit193> But ah well.
<Unit193> No 32bit today, alright.
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: still @office?
<leo-unglaub> take a guess :)
<ochosi> oh lord :)
<leo-unglaub> you can come an visit if you want :)
<ochosi> nah, i'm going to a party at a friends' house ;)
<ochosi> s/house/flat
<leo-unglaub> sounds boring
<ochosi> :)
<knome> party sounds boring but a visit to office not? huhuh
<knome> well i must confess, i prefer offices too...
<pleia2> me too
<Unit193> If you define party.....
<patrick_> the xfce user switcher apparantly isn't working on 12.04: The name org.gnome.DisplayManager was not provided by any .service files
<patrick_> Had this something to do with the switch to LightDM or is it something else?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-17
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: ping-pong
<leo-unglaub> yes?
<leo-unglaub> didn't you wan't to go to a party?
<ochosi> well i just returned
<leo-unglaub> oh, okay
<leo-unglaub> back from the party directly into the irc
<ochosi> i thought 4am is a pretty ok time to return
<ochosi> you're also here :)
<leo-unglaub> you must be a real nerd
<ochosi> ty
<leo-unglaub> don't worry, i am the bigger nerd... i am still in the office
<ochosi> woot
<ochosi> you must be kiddin
<leo-unglaub> 4 in the morning is normal for me
<ochosi> seriously?
<leo-unglaub> yes
<ochosi> well, i'm speechless
<leo-unglaub> there is nothing else to do for me on a friday evening 
<ochosi> (but less surprised now that you said "morning" around 4pm)
<ochosi> why's that?
<leo-unglaub> friday night is just crap on tv
<ochosi> right, but there are things other than tv
<leo-unglaub> and playing battlefield gets boring after 350 hours ingame
<leo-unglaub> and not to forgett, i don't like vienna
<ochosi> haven't played games since diablo2
<leo-unglaub> crap city
<ochosi> ah, why's that?
<leo-unglaub> so much stupid people, dirty, noisy...
<ochosi> a-ha, so what's your favorite city?
<leo-unglaub> none
<ochosi> ("so many" stupid people btw ;) )
<leo-unglaub> i don't like citys in general
<ochosi> but if you follow your current working hours you could work remotely, no?
<leo-unglaub> yeah yeah, go ahead....mark the little boy with the bad spelling skills
<leo-unglaub> no
<leo-unglaub> i mean the most work is on my laptop an on the servers, but normaly i work not from home
<ochosi> do you work with others in a team?
<leo-unglaub> yes, i am the technical director in the company
<ochosi> hm, i see
<ochosi> but at this time of the day i'd assume there aren't too many people to direct, no?
<leo-unglaub> i am alone in the office..
<ochosi> hmkay, i guess that's why i expected you'd work remotely
<ochosi> (or at least: be able to..)
<leo-unglaub> nooo, i like sitting alone i nthe office
<leo-unglaub> so i work if they are gone
<leo-unglaub> i hate people in real live
<leo-unglaub> i like to chat in irc or so, but i hate having them around me
<leo-unglaub> so i am happy if i can work at night
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> why's that then?
<ochosi> (not surprised anymore that you dislike cities)
<leo-unglaub> *g*
<leo-unglaub> i don't know why i don't like people..
<leo-unglaub> if you spend so much time like me alone in a server room or alone at home, you get used to the silence
<ochosi> the silence of servers running? :)
<leo-unglaub> yeah
<ochosi> maybe you just need to meet a human that makes the sound of a server
<leo-unglaub> you get me
<ochosi> (when idle)
<leo-unglaub> no, i don't know...people i know just talk to me if they need something fixed
<leo-unglaub> and after 6 years i hate saying the following line: "have you tryed turning it of and on again?"
<ochosi> lol
<leo-unglaub> thats what i say every time my phone rings...
<leo-unglaub> *g*
<ochosi> well in that case let me step down from that line. (and forget about parole etc. :)
<leo-unglaub> ?
<leo-unglaub> no, that is different
<ochosi> i don't just wanna contact someone if i wanna get something fixde
<ochosi> fixed
<ochosi> especially if that's always the case for that someone
<leo-unglaub> why not?
<ochosi> because i assume i'm not the only social being in the universe with feelings
<leo-unglaub> i think thats the best part of open source software. you can be streat with people. no worrying about money or projects. just tell them to fix something and they do it
<leo-unglaub> besides...you are not a real live guy for me, you are just irc
<ochosi> i think that's a misconception
<ochosi> if you tell people to fix something in opensource, their reaction depends heavily on the kind of project
<ochosi> take claws-mail for example, if they don't wanna fix it (e.g. if they're not interested in your use-case) they simply don't
<ochosi> another example: xfce. they don't have enough manpower to fix anything you might suggest
<ochosi> another example: gnome. they don't seem to listen to anyone else but themselves
<leo-unglaub> hmmm, maybe...i spend nearly 6 to 8 hours every day fixing errors or improve my open source php projects (sadly i am a better php+mysql guy than c/c++) but i think it works...
<ochosi> if it's really _just irc_ to you, then i'm not sure i understand your engagement here (or: your motivation to contribute). not that that matters though :) the important thing is that people contribute, not my understanding of it
<leo-unglaub> of yourse manpower is a problem but i like that people can send me ideas and i implement them
<ochosi> sure
<leo-unglaub> my motivation?
<ochosi> if you're on the dev-side, then that's your choice
<leo-unglaub> my motivation is simple: i am a php guy...and i hate that. PHP is a language for suckers...i want to lean the real c++ language and so i teached it myself and now i want to help (in my limited ressources) to make linux better so no one can say anymore: mac or windows is better
<leo-unglaub> i am just bored all day long, so i look for open source projects to build and learn
<ochosi> that's good motivation i guess
<ochosi> oh darn, i feel really tired
<ochosi> have a good night
<ochosi> ttyl
<leo-unglaub> i will
<leo-unglaub> cu
<mr_pouit> precise/i386 daily builds broken for now (there're missing)
<Unit193> I noticed yesterday, but didn't yet today.
<mr_pouit> knome: I need a new logo for usr/share/pixmaps/{xubuntu-logo-menu.png,xubuntu-logo.png,xubuntu-logo.svg}. Thanks :P
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: so, my build script is fixed
<leo-unglaub> running now
<leo-unglaub> i am currently on my way home
<leo-unglaub> see you later
<pleia2> I had hoped to have the testing docs updated by now, but day job got in the way all week :( will work on it this weekend so I can get something out by Monday or so
<pleia2> Tuesday night I'm leaving for an 8 day trip, will only have hotel wifi (yuck)
<knome> mr_pouit, will provide you those in the next 3 hours
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: hey
<ochosi> nice to hear!
<knome> mr_pouit, ?
<knome> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> heya knome 
<knome> ochosi, did you see mr_pouit's request for the logo files
<knome> in /usr/share/pixmaps
<knome> are those used for the menu exclusively?
<ochosi> to be honest i've lost track of what logo-icons are used where :)
<knome> hmmh
<knome> well, one of them says -menu
<knome> but they are big, like 128x128
<knome> but they are still just the icons
<ochosi> hm, i think we should try to find out which logos are used for what, then we could optimize the sizing
<ochosi> but currently i'm busy with other stuff
<ochosi> so i'm not sure i wanna take over this task :)
<knome> mmh
<knome> it's not too bad if the small size logo is there and it's used on bigger sizes too
<knome> it's worse the other way
<ochosi> yup
<knome> okay, i will provide those files for mr_pouit 
<knome> mr_pouit, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/pixmaps/
<knome> mr_pouit, with love, from me to you
<knome> mr_pouit, (and they're optimized too!)
<ochosi> night!
<knome> nighty :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-18
<leo-unglaub> so, i am on my way home
<leo-unglaub> have a nice day
<pleia2> knome: so I'm confused, we have iso tracking which is one test thing, and then these: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short and /Long
<pleia2> these seem to me to be different things, but the docs seem to imply that all results should be added to the iso tracker
<pleia2> and do we need https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Testers anymore?
<knome> pleia2, i don't know. that doesn't look very current, but if it was, this could be something that could be used as the machine URL.
<knome> pleia2, i suppose you should do the tests that are linked from the tracker, but i'd ask charlie and/or stgraber or the folks behind the tracker
<knome> mr_pouit, can you ping me when you have uploaded the new logos and the new icon package/any changes needed to change the app menu icon. thanks!
<knome> mr_pouit, also, where are we at on changing the lightdm logo?
<pleia2> knome: ok, I'll email charlie (I was thinking I'd do that anyway, but figured I'd ask you first :)
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> :)
<knome> np
<madnick> knome: http://79.99.1.99/~madnick/xubuntu-logo.script
<knome> madnick, mm-hmm! we've made some slight changes to the branch (mostly file renames), could you create a diff or sth and incorporate those changes to a file too? :)
<madnick> on launchpad?
<knome> yeah
<madnick> i will look into it
<knome> ok, thanks
<madnick> I don't think I can push anything up there tho
<madnick> To the orignal branch
<knome> yeah, but i can, but it would be easier if i didn't need to do the diff ;)
<madnick> oh okay
<knome> besides, we will need a UIFe >__<
<mr_pouit> knome: uploaded
<knome> madnick, ta
<knome> mr_pouit, ^
<knome> mr_pouit, ?
<mr_pouit> knome: ?
<knome> mr_pouit, can you confirm the description is #955396 is accurate now
<mr_pouit> plymouth + appmenu should be ok
<mr_pouit> website + uboquity i don't know
<mr_pouit> lightdm isn't done
<knome> ubiquity is fine, i can confirm that
<knome> website needs actions from IS, but that's not under UIFe anyway
<knome> and yeah, i know about lightdm
<knome> but it's not critical, since we don't have the old logo there either :)
<pleia2> yay, charlie got back to me \o/
<pleia2> confirmed: iso and /Long /Short tests are two different, important things
<pleia2> confirmed: we should ask people to use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Testers per our StrategyDocument
<GridCube> talking about tests, i havent done any in like 2 months D:
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: hey!
<GridCube> could not read control file from URL http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/precise-alternate-i386.iso.zsync
<GridCube> D:
<pleia2> looks like only the 64-bit alts got made
<pleia2> and 64-bit desktop
<pleia2> 32-bit are dated the 15th
<pleia2> GridCube: can you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Testers with info for yourself?
<GridCube> pleia2, what is SRU/Backport?
<GridCube> i will put it "no" to it because i dont know what it is
<pleia2> I don't know :(
<pleia2> thank you
<ochosi> who's maintaining the "unofficial google+ xubuntu fan page"?
<GridCube> if its unofficial... i don't think no one here knows XD
<ochosi> why not?
<pleia2> yeah, I don't know
<pleia2> I just do twitter
<ochosi> it obviously contains "leaked" information from this channel (e.g. the new wallpaper proposal on knome's server)
<ochosi> or maybe that was also mentioned in a meeting
<GridCube> oh!!! 666 persons are part of the fan page
<GridCube> D:
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i'll raise that by one to make it less evil
<ochosi> :)
<GridCube> me too
<pleia2> lol
<knome> GridCube, pleia2: SRU/Backports are updates that are made for old releases, like 10.04.2
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> never did that
<GridCube> so no its ok
<knome> i don't do google+, so how would i know what's on?
<GridCube> knome, :D I LOVE THE BOAT
<pleia2> I wish it was easier to see who runs a page (like facebook has "admins" listed)
<pleia2> or at least contact them
<ochosi> yeah, the "about" page is not very informative
<knome> pleia2, you are on G+ ?
<pleia2> knome: yeah
<pleia2> you should be able to see this page even w/o g+ https://plus.google.com/112064450121097287690/posts
<knome> pleia2, ok, could you nicely ask to be made an admin of that group?
<pleia2> then they could call themselves Official! :)
<pleia2> there isn't a "contact me" button
<ochosi> meh, i still can't figure out why qt apps don't use the gtk theme by default in oneiric. no clue how we should fix that for precise (this also didn't work for me: http://www.webupd8.org/2012/01/get-better-looking-qt-applications-in.html )
<GridCube> you can leave a message
<pleia2> I could comment on a post, but that seems annoying
<pleia2> GridCube: hm, write a post shared only with them?
<knome> pleia2, mmh. i also don't want to have anything posted under the xubuntu name
<knome> like the robot ice hockey player down the page
<ochosi> brb
<knome> that's simply misusing the name for publicity, even if it was good-willed
<pleia2> it's actually a pretty good feed, so I'd love to collaborate
<knome> yeah, it looks good, but if it's official, it has to be kept xubuntu-only
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> or at least somewhat related posts.. that's just general nonsense ;)
<GridCube> pleia2, i have no idea, O_o
<GridCube> you can only answer a post
<pleia2> knome: hmm, maybe it brought you to the wrong page, it's all on topic when I look at it
<knome> https://plus.google.com/112064450121097287690/posts
<knome> oh right
<knome> the robot uses xubuntu 11.10
<knome> >__<
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> right
<knome> looks like your blog is either aggregated or manually linked to, but mine isn't
<knome> though i haven't blogged in a while...
<pleia2> I'm prettier
<knome> hrhm
<pleia2> I see a link to your blog though
<knome> can't disagree on that
<knome> right
<knome> k
<knome> anyway, try to get hold of the people running that
<astraljava> Yeah, even though I haven't seen you, I've seen knome...
<astraljava> *grin*
<pleia2> will do
<knome> the about-page could definitely get some love ;)
<knome> i suppose the next question is: has somebody created xubuntu on facebook, and who's administrating that?
<pleia2> someone has the username xubuntu
<ochosi> i mean so far nothing bad has come from that google+ page, but i wouldn't mind having that person joining the team or something and doing it officially
<pleia2> ochosi: yeah
<knome> it would make the most sense if pleia2, our marketing lead, was an admin of that page
<GridCube> knome, there are at least 8 xubuntu pages, just in spanish
<pleia2> there is a facebook page, no idea who is admin
<pleia2> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Xubuntu/106181872745864
<ochosi> yeah, but it might be easier to integrate the page rather than contacting someone and saying: we want to control your site
<knome> pleia2, didn't i just hear you saying "fb is easier" ?:)
<GridCube> http://www.facebook.com/groups/2205096275/
<pleia2> knome: haha, I thought it had an admins thing! maybe I dreamt it in my hope to hate facebook less
<knome> :)=
<pleia2> this page confuses me, it doesn't have updates and stuff
<knome> should i ask IS to update the website now with the new logo?
<knome> the logo is all over precise now
<ochosi> yeah, why not, but then we have to blog as well
<GridCube> whats the difference with the old logo?
<knome> the article is pretty much ready
<pleia2> yeah
<ochosi> k
<pleia2> let's do it
<knome> GridCube, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/oldexports/logo_comparison.png
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> D:
<knome> (except that's an old export, there is a slight bug that's fixed)
<GridCube> gods
<ochosi> do any of you have a real (as in: not vm) install of precise?
<GridCube> youre jocking right?
<knome> GridCube, no.
<GridCube> D:
<knome> ochosi, wife's laptop...
<pleia2> ochosi: of Ubuntu, but I could install xubuntu-desktop, or reinstall to test the iso for fun
<ochosi> what i'm trying to find out is how to solve the sound-setting mess
<ochosi> specifically the mute/unmute multimedia button not working
<ochosi> and whether xfce4-mixer works in any testcase
<knome> mmh
<ochosi> cause if not we should stop installing it by default and replace it with pavucontrol
<ochosi> would be best to achieve that for precise already
<pleia2> I'll grab today's iso and give it a spin in a little bit
<pleia2> and do we know what broke/when the 32 bit isos will be back? :)
<ochosi> thanks pleia2 
<ochosi> i'll try to get around to do a real-install myself as well. i think more than one person testing this might make sense
 * pleia2 goes to make breakfast
<ochosi> bon appetit
<knome> you, bon appetit
<ochosi> are there any news on the text-mode of plymouth from madnick?
<knome> yeah, he posted the code for that today, though it used the old code as basis, so i asked him to do a merge
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> the new plymouth logo looks slick btw: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03182012-065432pm.php
<ochosi> well done, knome !
<knome> \o/
<knome> yeah, that's great
<GridCube> for the record, i really do not like the new logo.
<knome> logged.
<knome> for the record, there's an another proposition for a logo for Q: http://imagebin.org/204078 (by GridCube) :))
<GridCube> XD
<knome> looks really good, though i'm not sure how it would work on small sizes, i suppose most of the details would not work
<ochosi> lol
<pleia2> should our desktop iso give an option to just install or boot right into live?
<knome> pleia2, yeah, with maybe-ubiquity
<pleia2> er, yeah which?
<knome> maybe-ubiquity!! :P
<knome> that's the name
<knome> it's the graphical installer/selecting screen
<pleia2> I meant which were you saying yeah to :)
<pleia2> should give an option?
<knome> yes, should give an option
<knome> http://s.techairlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Ubuntu-Install-Welcome.jpg
<knome> like that
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I remember the VM tests I was doing did that, maybe it's the way I'm booting the iso from my USB stick that is the problem
<knome> mm
<knome> don't know
 * pleia2 loads up in VM too
<pleia2> is there a recommended way to boot the iso from a USB stick?
<knome> i suppose to use the usb stick creator, but i'm unaware if there's any difference to a "manual" method
<pleia2> I just put the iso on a stick and used grub2 (grub2 is install ed on the usb stick)
<pleia2> hm, yeah, a VM install works correctly
<GridCube> pleia2, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/924931
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924931 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "xubuntu precise pangolin alpha2 problems" [High,Confirmed]
<pleia2> GridCube: I'm not getting the option
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> D:
<pleia2> it is booting directly into live
<GridCube> even if you press a key on the first seconds? 
<pleia2> what key?
<pleia2> it just puts text stuff on my screen until it starts xorg
<GridCube> any key
<GridCube> mmm
<pleia2> do you use usb sticks for testing?
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> i do vbox tests
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> ochosi: I have a metal install of xubuntu 12.04 now, just let me know what you need tested
<pleia2> charlie-tca says he uses UNetbootin
<knome> i'm wondering why he doesn't hang out at #xubuntu-devel 
<pleia2> I don't think he's been on irc at all lately
<pleia2> I'm talking via email :)
<knome> aham
<ochosi> pleia2: cool. well the thing concerns multimedia buttons for one
<ochosi> pleia2: mute works, but unmute usually doesn't
<pleia2> ochosi: ah ok, I'll have a look
<ochosi> pleia2: then please add xfce4-mixer to the panel and see whether volume-changes are reflected in the notification-bubble
<pleia2> ok
<ochosi> if unmute really doesn't work, please test this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-volumed/+bug/883485/comments/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883485 in xfce4-volumed "Pulse Audio don't get unmuted when XF86AudioMute is used" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<ochosi> sry pleia2, g2g to sleep now
<ochosi> maybe we can talk tomorrow
<pleia2> doh, my laptop doesn't have a mute key
<pleia2> it does have a key to turn off the touchpad and click mouse, cool
<pleia2> it works too
<pleia2> and is scary when you don't know what it is and hit it accidentally :D
<pleia2> "oh no, mouse no worky!"
<pleia2> xfce4-mixer sound change in Master does make the notification bubble happen
<pleia2> I can test the mute/unmute thing on a liveusb on my netbook
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-11
<haydenbbickerton> It said that I don't have permission to attach a file to that page, so I guess I'll just email it.
<pleia2> haydenbbickerton: are you logged in? sometimes you need to refresh the page too (it caches in browsers)
<haydenbbickerton> Yeah, I am, and I refreshed it. I just click on the attachments tab right? That's where I'm supposed to be?
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> might be that new signups can't upload due to anti-spam measures, it's fine to email
<ochosi> micahg: i'm not sure why it wasn't added before, but we wanted to include gtk-theme-config in R, do you still think it's possible to get it? (the package is in the shimmer ppa: https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ppa )
<knome> micahg, ^ and i ack that (gtk-theme-preferences)
<pleia2> oh gosh, we need to test b1 images
<pleia2> knome: can you review http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/jZSPPjyJ9K
<pleia2> (and anyone else interested in testing)
<micahg> knome: can you ack the participation on the release ML please for xubuntu on beta 1?
<Noskcaj> i'm testing the amd 64 iso now
<Noskcaj> is the iso tracker meant to still only say it's a daily?
<skellat> Officially the beta 1 drops Thursday so it is still dailies until then
<Noskcaj> ok
<micahg> well, it'll be respun if needed
<pleia2> Noskcaj: can you send a quick email to the devel list asking for people to test with a link to the tracker?
<Noskcaj> pleia2, ok.
<pleia2> (and invitation to reply or join here if there are questions)
<knome> micahg, i've done it to stgraber. might have not gone to -devel
<knome> err, -release
<knome> let me double-check
<Noskcaj> pleia2, sent, but i probably left something out
<pleia2> Noskcaj: we'll improve as we go along, having *something* out there right now is the most important thing :)
<knome> sent to -release, but i had acked before to stephane privately (accidentally)
<Noskcaj> yeah. should i forward it to ubuntu-quality and lubuntu-qa?
<pleia2> Noskcaj: I'd ask them, I'm just concerned about xubuntu testing ;)
<Noskcaj> ok
<pleia2> (I know lubuntu has a specific testing team that may be handling announcements and things, and philw did send a note to the QA list)
<Noskcaj> i forgot, he did. mostly a rant email though ;)
 * pleia2 grins
<pleia2> I frequently get tripped up on his sense of humor too
<knome> i'm on the pad.
<Noskcaj> :), has he spammed you with pig pictures?
<pleia2> ty knome 
<pleia2> I was pretty much useless last week, on account of the motivation drain ;)
<pleia2> but I'm better now
<pleia2> Noskcaj: heh, no, thankfully :)
<knome> how does it look now?
<knome> pretty much lilac, but..
<Noskcaj> looks good knome 
<pleia2> I haven't done testing in a while, where are the manual test cases?
<knome> iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<Noskcaj> pleia2, iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<pleia2> post install?
<knome> pleia2, they are there as well.
<pleia2> I guess I thought we had per-application ones 
<knome> pleia2, we haven't moved all of the new testcases there yet
<Noskcaj> nope, all joined to one
<pleia2> and we don't seem to have a 32-bit image up right now?
<pleia2> oh, it was hidden
<pleia2> these checkboxes don't work as expected :)
<knome> heh
<Noskcaj> pleia2, should we get some xubuntu autopilot tests made? that is what you're looking for
<pleia2> knome: just had a call with sticker ppl, but I have a meeting to run to, I'll give you updates in a bit
<knome> pleia2, sure
<zequence> knome: Am I going crazy? The side 
<zequence> ..panel is not grey anymore http://ubuntustudio.org/
<zequence> I was just looking at theme source
<zequence> added it to the staging site http://www.ubuntustudio.mousike.me/
<knome> it's for me
<zequence> Well, yes. It's me who arranged that :)
<knome> no, it's grey in us.org.
<zequence> Not for me. 
<knome> that's weird
<zequence> And I didn't see any changes to the source, so that's why I was starting to wonder
<knome> did you change browser?
<knome> did you try a hard reload?
<zequence> F5?
<knome> ctrl+shift+R in firefox
<zequence> Still white
<knome> really weird.
<knome> you seem to lack an image
<knome> https://ubuntustudio.org/wp-content/themes/ubuntustudio-wp/ubuntustudio-wp/img/page-bg.png
<knome> hard refresh that one
<knome> then hard refresh the page
<zequence> No change, but ok, so it's just in my browser then
<zequence> Another browser shows the same thing
<knome> hmm.
<knome> the sidebar background is done by a background image
<zequence> Well, I was just wondering. no big deal
<knome> sure
<pleia2> knome: so I'm thinking we wait until the xubuntu beta1 images show up, and then blog?
<pleia2> I can cp to wordpress
<knome> that sounds good
<knome> are we ready enough to go to WP?
<pleia2> I think so
<knome> fine
<knome> then we probably should go ahead
 * knome needs to leave home in 9 hours, and needs to sleep in between
<knome> meh.
<knome> this is not going to end well
<knome> hope this server lags less.
 * pleia2 waits for b1 builds
 * pleia2 whistles
<knome> :)
<knome> did you cp the article already?
<pleia2> nope
<knome> are you going to?
<knome> :]
<pleia2> after work (~1 hr)
<knome> aha
<knome> i might as well do it now.
<pleia2> k
<knome> if you don't mind ;)
<pleia2> go for it
<knome> raring beta 1 just appeared in iso.qa.
 * ochosi wonders whether we could change the grub entry to say "Xubuntu" instead of "Ubuntu"
<knome> pleia2, how does that look: http://xubuntu.org/?p=1640&preview=true
<knome> ochosi, i'm wondering if we *can*
<GridCube> mail in the ml has broken links
<GridCube> the specially marked one https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153667
<ubottu> Error: launchpad bug 1153667 not found
<pleia2> it wasn't broken when it was sent to the list, deleted or merged I guess?
<pleia2> I don't know how that all works
<GridCube> dunno
<knome> black magic!
<pleia2> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds
<pleia2> w00t
 * pleia2 reviews blog post
<knome> pleia2, 01:19  knome: raring beta 1 just appeared in iso.qa.
<knome> ...
<pleia2> I don't read knome's words
<knome> right
<pleia2> <3
<pleia2> perfect blog post
<pleia2> shall I send an update to the list with a link to the beta1 images?
<knome> why not
<pleia2> knome: want to publish blog post? I'll include that link in the email too
<knome> pleia2, i can
<pleia2> doooo eeet
<knome> can we make the title less boo?
<pleia2> let's see..
<pleia2> Want to help out Xubuntu? Test Raring!
<pleia2> (don't need to restrict to beta1 in title, we can reuse this)
<knome> yeah
<knome> ok, updated and published
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/want-to-help-out-xubuntu-test-raring/
<pleia2> :D
<knome> woot?
<pleia2> yes
<pleia2> I put it on the G+
<knome> i tweeted it
<knome> should we both reblog?
<jjfrv8> Looks like I won't get to test tonight. Download says will take 3+ hours!
<knome> jjfrv8, once you get a hold of any iso, a zsync will make it faster (if the images change)
<jjfrv8> I know but I've got to get the first one complete, no?
<knome> yes
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-12
<pleia2> so, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds/39546/testcases/1303/results could use some detail I think?
<pleia2> "Use and execute the default applications found for the desktop enviroment being run"
<pleia2> that's a bit vague :)
<pleia2> and "Test-case Live Session Persistence" is an interesting part of the test case
<knome> we should get the new application tests to the tracker asap
<knome> i promise i'll look into that tomorrow.
<pleia2> thank you
<pleia2> "Test-case Live Session Persistence" makes the test considerably more involved and I am losing interest in doing this test :\
<pleia2> thought I could just load up livecd, clicky click, ok done!
<knome> lol
<knome> imo the persistence test should be a separate one
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> I loved giving this livecd test to folks at events I was doing since it wouldn't touch their harddrive and was easy
<pleia2> I found a bug in our tour!
<knome> good!
<pleia2> gnumeric :)
<knome> it's a bug for what, 1.5 months?
<pleia2> where does the xubuntu ubiquity slideshow live on launchpad?
<pleia2> si
<Len-nb> lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<pleia2> uses the same as ubuntu?
<pleia2> ah, I see, thanks
<Len-nb> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html
<Len-nb> Ya I just updated Studio's
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> thanks :)
<knome> pleia2, do you need changes on that?
<knome> pleia2, i have push rights
<pleia2> I want to write my bug first!
 * knome laughs the evil, manical laugh
<pleia2> :)
<Len-nb> knome, push our merge :)
<pleia2> I actually don't know how I want to words to go really and now my system is all dne installing so I lost the page, aaahh
<knome> Len-nb, if you remind me tomorrow or send me a mail about that (pasi@shimmerproject.org), i'll look at that tomorrow.
 * pleia2 combs through bzr
<Len-nb> I think it has one review does it need more
<pleia2> it's sleepytime for knome I think
<knome> Len-nb, i don't think so. but yeah, it's late
<Len-nb> I forget sometimes
<Len-nb> I am -700
<knome> no problem :)
<Len-nb> half past midnight there?
<knome> 2:40am
<Len-nb> Ouch
<knome> that's okay. i went to bed 6am last night
<pleia2> oh dear :)
<knome> \o/
<knome> and yeah, i'm meeting a client 10am today
<pleia2> ooh, I like the circle progress thingy
<Len-nb> Better than dots for sure
<pleia2> wasn't it just a bar going back and forth?
<knome> yes
<Len-nb> Not sure, I could look at my wifes netbook though
<pleia2> didn't catch 1093015 on my 64-bit test, but ah yeah there it is
 * pleia2 will look for on 32-bit
<Len-nb> catfish is still not fixed/released
<Len-nb> I am updating my xubuntu ISO now. If I have time after I do the studio test, I will do xubuntu as well. (32bit)
<pleia2> thank you!
<Len-nb> The version of firefox on the ISO should come with a link to the test cases
<Len-nb> Feature request :)
<pleia2> that would be neat
<knome> heh
<pleia2> hrm, 'incomplete language support' error
<pleia2> when booting up after install
<pleia2> where to file?
<ochosi> i think that has been there for ages
<ochosi> at least if you open the gnome-language-settings/dialog
<pleia2> it was a notification on boot first time, I don't remember it :\
<pleia2> oops, I was supposed to meet up with real life people
 * pleia2 goes to do that
<knome> heh
<knome> hf! :)
<knome> bluesabre, hello :)
<knome> and good night everybody, i'm off
<knome> see you tomorrow!
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> seeya knome
<knome> wut? :P
<knome> my ctrl is not working!
<knome> great.
<knome> or then i'm not an a screen
<knome> boo.
<knome> humm.
<knome> weird.
<knome> yay finnish freenode server
<knome> must've been some weird error in xfce4-terminal
<knome> now ctrl works again.
<knome> and now, night -->
<len_live> Running xubuntu 13.04 from todays spin.
<len_live> There seem to be a lot of things traditionally found in the System submenu that show up in the settings manager
<len_live> Is this on purpose?
<len_live> Some of these things I could argue either way, I think. Others just seem wrong.
<len_live> Software installation doesn't seem to me to belong.
<len_live> The few things left in system seem they would be better in accessories.... aside from SW centre which is a duplicate anyway.
<len_live> The result of over zealous category tags I guess. Needs to be addressed one app at a time.
 * len_live can't do install entire disk, he is glade someone else did
<pleia2> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<pleia2> D:
<micahg> what?
<pleia2> usb-creator-gtk exploded
<pleia2> going to try again, erasing usb stick first
<pleia2> bah, happened again, but it seems to have actually done everything..
 * pleia2 skips off to plug it into laptop
<micahg> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTMyNDg
<pleia2> :\
<micahg> well, we can hope for 4.12 for the LTS I guess
 * pleia2 nods
 * micahg would certainly prefer a GTK3 only version, but that seems a pipe dream at this point, maybe for 16.04
<pleia2> well, it seems to be installing from this usb stick
<pleia2> maybe usb-creator-gtk is supposed to end with a segfault :D
<micahg> um, no, that's still be a bug
<pleia2> yeah, in 12.10
<micahg> and so was that sentence...
<pleia2> or in the image?
<pleia2> it's late
<micahg> usb-creator, no app should end in segfault
<pleia2> yeah
<micahg> now, whether or not it's a priority to fix depends on how much of an edge case + how hard it is to track down
<micahg> maybe save the image somewhere where it can be downloaded since it seems to trigger the test case
<pleia2> hahaha, google search for usb-creator-gtk recommends "usb-creator-gtk download" and "usb-creator-gtk segfault"
<micahg> or, save it in case it's needed at least
 * pleia2 nods
<micahg> heh, quality software at work :)
 * micahg goes to sleep
<pleia2> good night
<pleia2> ooh, boot time is snappy again
<pleia2> doh, can't install google-chrome on 13.04
<pleia2>  google-chrome-stable depends on libgconf2-4 (>= 2.27.0); however:
<pleia2>   Package libgconf2-4 is not installed.
<pleia2>  google-chrome-stable depends on libnss3-1d (>= 3.12.3); however:
<pleia2>   Package libnss3-1d is not installed.
<Noskcaj> therefore, sudo apt-get install those things
<knome> morning
<pleia2> Noskcaj: they are virtual, can't ;)
<pleia2> (I do actually do systems administration for a livint)
<pleia2> living too
<knome> heh :)
<pleia2> they don't really exist in raring, having dependency fun now
<knome> good luck!
<pleia2> heh, libgconf-2-4 exists
<pleia2> and libnss3
<knome> :)
<knome> well if you're going to build a stable, you'll need a lot of building material ;d
<pleia2> :P
<knome> yeah i know, the bad jokes...
<pleia2> of course libgconf-2-4 is installed (as is libnss3)
 * pleia2 gives no cookies to chrome
<pleia2> heh, chromium in the repos is just as broken
<pleia2> oh, it decided to work now?
<pleia2> after midnight, must have fed the gremlins
<pleia2> I suspect I may have broken things by removing conflicting packages \o/
<knome> :)
<knome> well done
<knome> now report what you removed
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> libnss3!
<pleia2> was conflicting with libnss3-1d
<pleia2> who needs that
<knome> umm
<knome> :)
<knome> "The proposal is to reduce the support for interim releases to 7 months, thereby providing constant support for those who stay on the latest interim release, or any supported LTS releases."
<knome> that's probably what you wanted to read/hear
<pleia2> oh, maybe I should read it :)
<knome> it's the best article from mark in a long time
<pleia2> yay Mark \o/
<knome> it's something completely different from the reply to harald :/
<pleia2> well, I'll reserve my excitement for when things settle
<knome> sure, it's still not the final word
<pleia2> I like the new update icon
<pleia2> ooh, I also like our website links in the menu :)
<pleia2> except they have no preferred application associated with them
<knome> goodgood
<knome> pleia2, they're exo-links
<pleia2> I don't know what that means!
<knome> they should open in the default web browser
<pleia2> they don't
<knome> the launchers on the bottom panel are exo-links as well
<pleia2> i did change default to chrome though, maybe they did before
<knome> do they work?
<knome> (especially the "internet browser" icon)
<pleia2> internet browser opens firefox
<knome> ok... weird
<pleia2> no wait
<knome> heh :)
<pleia2> "web browser"
<pleia2> yeah, that opens firefox
<knome> hmmh.
<knome> maybe that's not perfect yet.
<knome> 'exo-open --launch WebBrowser' ?
<pleia2> that seems to work ok
<knome> ok
<knome> micahg! ^
<knome> i'm running now
<knome> good night and see you later :)
<pleia2> have a nice day
<knome> thanks, will try to
<pleia2> oh sure, now it opens in firefox
<knome> heh :)
<pleia2> maybe because I set a default at one point now
<knome> -->
<knome> yeah.
<pleia2> ok bye
<pleia2> ah, so it turns out when I tell chrome "yes, I want you to become my default browser!" it actually unsets my default browser and then I have none
<pleia2> all is well now :)
<pleia2> (except the part where I am still awake)
<astraljava> pleia2: I never seemed to get it working (combo with FF and Chrome).
<astraljava> Every time I started the other browser, it was a mess again.
<knome> pleia2, heh, good
<knome> astraljava, in my experience at least FF stops whining if you tell it not to check if it's the default browser
<knome> but mimetype associations generally never worked well on linux
<knome> and that's a shame :/
<knome> don't know if it's in the scope of xubuntu, but that definitely needed fixing.
<knome> or a UI
<astraljava> knome: That might be, it's been a while since I've used anything other than Chrome.
<lderan> Hello all 
<bluesabre> knome, looks like my xubuntu-doc membership is about to expire
<knome> bluesabre, can you renew it yourself?
<knome> lderan, hello
<bluesabre> "To prevent this membership from expiring, you should contact the team's administrator, Pasi Lallinaho (knome). <https://launchpad.net/~knome>"
<knome> aha
<knome> bluesabre, can you check if you can renew yourself now?
<bluesabre> knome, not sure where to go to renew
<knome> hmm
<bluesabre> eventually this year I will get a new laptop, then this will hide in the corner as an always on shell/media center
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+expiringmembership/xubuntu-doc ?
<knome> wait
<knome> replace bluesabre with your lp nick :P
<bluesabre> sweet
<bluesabre> thanks knome
<knome> np
<knome> the email you got now should have a link to that in the future
<knome> i think there was some idea behind making it "you can't renew it yourself"
<knome> probably to get the reeeeally old "contributors" either tell ask us that they still contribute or get to kick them out :P
<knome> -asl
<knome> *ask
<knome> my typing doesn't work today
<lderan> hi knome
<knome> hey lderan 
<lderan> new user of xubuntu and thought to see if i could lend any help with any dev work
<knome> lderan, great! did you already look at http://xubuntu.org/contribute/ and seen something that would be interesting for you and fit your skills?
<lderan> having a look over it as i type
<knome> we have recently updated it, so it should be pretty accurate
<knome> just let us know and we'll help you to get started :)
<lderan> awesome thanks :D
<knome> np
<lderan> i can help with bug fixes and writing new software / documentation
<knome> lderan, you'll want to chat with bluesabre, micahg and mr_pouit about bugs/software
<knome> lderan, and me about documentation... though atm i'm a bit busy
<knome> (pleia2 can help with docs too, but she's probably asleep)
<ochosi> lderan: how would you describe your skillset or what experience do you have?
<ochosi> (not vetting, just wondering ;))
<lderan> i have some c, c++ experience from what i've gathered from uni and personal learnings, the bulk of my experience is in php.
<ochosi> sounds nice
<ochosi> most of our stuff is in c+gtk
<lderan> shall look into that after work
<ochosi> best way to dive into code imo is to find a bug or something small that annoys you :)
<ochosi> read the relevant code, try to patch it and see whether you can scratch your itch
<lderan> sounds good to me :P
<scottbomb> Is there not a daily build for 3/12/13?
<scottbomb> Looking for Xubuntu Desktop i386 20130312.x
<knome> we are in the beta freeze
<scottbomb> ok cool thanks
<knome> np
<pleia2> knome: can you renew me in xubuntu-doc? expiring soon
 * pleia2 reads backlog and renewself
<Unit193> Just a note that not much progress has been made for libdvdcss-installer or libdvdcss-pkg, still stuck in ITP.  (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=687624)
<ubottu> Debian bug 687624 in wnpp "ITP: libdvdcss-pkg -- automated installer for libdvdcss" [Wishlist,Open]
<scottbomb> One thing I've noticed is that at end of the installation the installer tells me that it's done and time to reboot but it doesn't say when to remove the installation media. Out of curiosity, I unplugged the USB thumb drive I was using and it caused a kernel panic. Should I file a bug against ubiquity ?
<bluesabre_> I think only the live cd/dvds ask to remove the media, but I might be wrong
<pleia2> yeah, I think it should just reboot when it's done with things w/o asking any questions
<xnox> scottbomb: you riped out the installer out of the live system. you should have clicked reboot, and it would have later displayed message when to remove the usb stick.
<scottbomb> I've been testing the daily ISO for the past few days and it never prompted me to remove the stick. I've just done it after the computer restarted and before the BIOS message. Kind of a haphazard way of doing things but that's what I've been doing up until today when I figured I should bring it up.
<xnox> it does on ubuntu.... one gets purple screen (plymouth) ubuntu logo and a message: Please remove installation media.
<bluesabre_> I think that is only on the live cd, and possibly live media created by unetbootin/usb-creator
<bluesabre_> live usb in general doesn't prompt to be removed
<knome> pleia2, good good
<pleia2> knome: since we all know 13.04 is happening, I suppose we should do something about docs :)
<pleia2> maybe not work on translations stuff yet (that's still up in the air when it comes to rolling and whatnot)
<pleia2> I'm thinking we just have volunteers read the docs and submit bugs (and patches if they're comfortable with that)
<knome> mm.
<knome> submitting bugs sounds like a lot of overhead bureaucracy
<knome> but fine.
<pleia2> how else would you have them report?
<knome> merge requests.
<knome> that would also make people want to fix more things at once, not file a bug for every single type
<pleia2> that's the "if they're comfortable with that" part
<knome> *typo
<pleia2> I suspect most aren't
<knome> well, to be honest
<knome> pulling the bzr branch and pushing to private repo is really easy
<knome> i can even write instructions to that
<pleia2> sorry, I did mean patches in the form of MPs :)
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> it's bzr plus writing it in the doc format
<knome> and you don't really need to know anything about coding to change the documentation code
<pleia2> tends to make people go cross-eyed
<knome> yeah, but most of that is set
<knome> they can test-build the documentation to read it as html
<knome> there are scripts for that
<pleia2> ok, so maybe we write up something on how to use bzr as a doc person, but if all else fails they can submit a bug ;)
<knome> tbh, people should just step up. we can't do all the work.
<knome> learning how to pull/push bzr is the least they can do
<pleia2> they won't
<pleia2> it's intimidating
<knome> it's different for completely random people who find a bug in the docs and then disappear
<knome> learning bzr?
<pleia2> pushing a merge proposal
<pleia2> worries about doing it right, whether their change will matter
<knome> yes, i agree that's a bit more intimidating
<knome> and we should make sure that's as smooth as possible
<knome> (and actually review them as they show up to clear the doubts)
<knome> which is completely fine, because you only need to approve
<knome> i'm not saying i won't take bug reports
<knome> i just don't want to, and i don't think it's at all unfair to ask other people to do the bit to get a merge request for me/you
<pleia2> ok
<knome> but yes, i do think we need to document it well because people won't do it if we tell them to "get the branch and send us merge requests if you find bugs"
<knome> i wouldn't
<pleia2> me neither :)
<knome> i'll look at the US slideshow merge request today and try to document that to us
<knome> ultimately, this way we'll have something to strive/target for for the contributors
<pleia2> :)
<knome> (first they need to do merge requests, once they are doing well with that, they can start approving them)
<knome> and i think that's also the way to make xubuntu's future look brighter, to get more contributors that are committed
<knome> (no pun intended with "committed")
<pleia2> :)
<knome> bluesabre_?
<bluesabre_> whoa
<bluesabre_> thats a lot to read
<bluesabre_> one sec
<pleia2> lol
<knome> no!
<knome> which of these are appropriate? http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/249/builds/27871/testcases
<bluesabre_> I guess at this point, only parole
<bluesabre_> catfish hasn't been updated yet (unless I missed that)
<knome> ok, i'll push that to production then
<bluesabre_> I think we should allow bugs to be reported against xubuntu-doc.  Requiring people to pull/push and merge will keep beginners away
<bluesabre_> like pleia2 said, its intimidating
<knome> bluesabre_, does bug filing go with normal procedures for parole or do you need something else?
<knome> we don't have people in the docs team who weren't around last cycle.
<knome> it's time to step up, really
<bluesabre_> normal bug filing (ala launchpad) should be acceptable
<knome> (and as i said, bugs are fine if they *really* can't do merge requests)
<bluesabre_> makes it easier: ubuntu-bug parole
<bluesabre_> it would probably be fine for merge requests and stuff if we have an awesome "contributing to documentation" documentation
<bluesabre_> but somebody will have to merge request that too ;)
<knome> i can create a brief one
<bluesabre_> I don't think it would be bad to start there then
<bluesabre_> and we can all review and revise it to make it easy
<bluesabre_> then do a call for documentation :)
<skellat> Where's the branch to pull from so I can later potentially make a merge request?
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<skellat> We're still working in the Quantal series?  There's no separate Raring series?
<pleia2> looks like it hasn't been created yet ;)
<pleia2> we do want to work on raring though
<pleia2> so sounds like first step is making a raring series
<skellat> Launchpad is saying the Quantal branch was carried over into Raring and imported as the docs package already
<pleia2> neat
<pleia2> knome: ^^ ?
<knome> weird that it doesn't show up in the project though.
<knome> i'd ask #ubuntu-docs
<knome> Len-nb, US slideshow approved and merged
<bluesabre_> that's just the package
<bluesabre_> the quantal xubuntu-docs.deb is in raring since we haven't released a new one
<bluesabre_> right?
<knome> probably
<knome> i think we need ubuntu docs team to create the new series
<knome> somebody else want to work on that or will i?
<bluesabre_> can't, still at work
<knome> pleia2, did you ask about it already?
<pleia2> no, in meeting
<knome> ok
<Len-nb> knome Thank you.
<knome> np
<dhrasmus> hello!
<knome> hullo
<dhrasmus> i dropped by to tell you all that you rock, and that Xubuntu 12.04.2 was able to make use of some hardware that lots of other Linuxes failed on
<knome> thanks. enjoy!
<dhrasmus> I'd also like to report a few hiccups with the installer. Could somebody direct me to the best place to do that?
<knome> which version?
<knome> and are the bugs about the *installer* or the *installation* ?
<dhrasmus> 12.04.2 
<dhrasmus> I did a text writeup here: https://plus.google.com/110626487457815460245/posts/j5dwGBGp3cA
<dhrasmus> I'm still a little intimidated by Launchpad and don't quite get how that all works :-/
<dhrasmus> Eg, if I report a bug on the Xubuntu 12.04.2 LTS installer, will that get shared with Ubuntu and its other derivatives too?
<knome> those look like bugs in the ubiquity installer
<knome> in this case they are shared problems, yes
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity
<knome> see if the bugs exist in that list
<dhrasmus> I'll do that, thanks!
<knome> thank you :)
<dhrasmus> yup :)
<micahg> bluesabre_: I think catfish will have to wait until after beta 1, sorry
<micahg> at least we got parole in there
<knome> micahg, bluesabre_: just ping me when other testcases are fine to be pushed to production
 * skellat is glad he finished his training for the May 7th Primary/Special Election he may or may not be working as a substitute precinct election official
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-13
<Len-nb> How come no USB-ISO installer?
<skellat> Len-nb: In general, the ISOs created as of late are "hybrid ISO" format things that can not only be burnt to disc but also simply written to a USB key using dd
<bluesabre> any idea what package to report against if I can't resume from standby correctly?
<astraljava> bluesabre: Using any proprietary drivers? If not, then linux.
<bluesabre> thanks astraljava
<astraljava> If yes, then ask on #ubuntu-bugs, I'm not sure what's the latest protocol. :)
<xnox> bluesabre: on failed resume, you should get a whopsie dialog offering to submit a bug, it has special hooks for suspend/resume bugs.
<bluesabre> I don't seem to be getting one.  I think the resume is working, but the display never comes to life.. so its hard to tell.
<bluesabre> hey micahg, sorry to keep bugging you, but any updates on catfish in raring?
<knome> bluesabre, i thought we're going to wait until after beta 1 with that (which makes sense)
<bluesabre> ok, cool.  Thanks knome
<knome> np
<Unit193> bluesabre_1: For what it's worth, I get/got those as well.  It's working right now, but doesn't always.  (Just resumed a couple minutes ago.)
<bluesabre_1> Unit193, on 13.04 or elsewhere?
<Unit193> 12.10 right now.
<bluesabre_1> This is a new problem for me as of 13.04
<bluesabre_1> brb, gotta reboot
<Guest83869> DL'd both the 32 and 64 dit RR iso from http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds/39546/downloads and installed on USB stick.  Both the 32 and 64 bit version show ~65% CPU usage (task manager and htop) at idle.  Seems a bit high to me.  Is this a known issue or do I need to file it?
<ochosi> Guest83869: and the 65% cpu usage is due to what..?
<knome> what's your cpu power and what's taking the cpu time?
<Guest83869> Well, for complete accuracy the 32 bit was DL'd from http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds/39546/downloads :)
<Guest83869> ochosi, nothinh (except either TM or htop) is running, check imediately after logon
<Guest83869> knome: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo T5850 (2 x 2.16GHz, 667Mhz FSB, 2MB L2 Shared Cache, 32-bit/64-bit)
<ochosi> Guest83869: there must be a process at the top of the list in htop, it's rather implausible (to me) that it just says "65% usage"
<Guest83869> yeah, loooking now
<ochosi> k
<Guest83869> /sbin/wpa_supplicant
<ochosi> right, so a wireless driver issue possibly
<Guest83869> looks like, but my wireless is hard switched off
<Guest83869> doesn't happen is 12.04/10 or earlier versions of 13.04 daily
<knome> Guest83869, i'd ask about it in #ubuntu+1
<Guest83869> ok, thanks
<knome> np
<pleia2> ochosi: should we do a broader call for background art submissions (not sure where you've asked so far, but I've seen the wiki updates :))
<pleia2> and did we decide to add any beyond a single default? or have a xubuntu-backgrounds package people can install after
<pleia2> ?
<pleia2> then again, with FF I guess this is all hard at this point
<micahg> well, it's easy enough to add a new binary package if it doesn't affect other ones
<pleia2> ah, ok
<micahg> still needs, FFe, but can get it approved (worst case, we can throw it in -backports)
<pleia2> I suppose we should have a meeting, I don't know what anyone is doing :)
 * pleia2 nods
<Len-nb> knome, re, wireless drivers. I have had higher (not 65%) workloads with things shut off than while working. It seems that once started, if it is shut off it goes into constant scan mode or more frequent anyway.
<Len-nb> I noticed it in regards to xruns as I got an xrun/min with wireless running. With wireless turned off the xruns went up to once every 5 sec. unloading the kernel module made them all go away.
<Len-nb> Not a bug (well maybe hardware) but for your info.
<SkippersBoss> evening
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-14
<knome> we need a few tests...
<knome> pleia2, and we need a beta 1 announcement
<knome> we also need to update the slideshow in a week
<knome> fixed the bugs filed in slideshow, it should be all fine now
<knome> pleia2, sorry for bombing your inbox again :P
<knome> should we add gnumeric and gimp launchers back to the popup panel?
<knome> bluesabre, which iso did you download? i386 or amd64?
<bluesabre> i386
<knome> ok, i'll do amd64 then
<knome> meh, the "file type associations" test is boring, there's no files installed by default in your home
<knome> screensaver testing is boring too :)
<bluesabre> knome, upgrade tests?  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds/39547/testcases
<knome> bluesabre, hideously, they are not in the "xubuntu" product
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds/39522/testcases
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> thats why nobody does them ;)
<knome> yes.
<knome> i'll talk with balloons.
<bluesabre> won't be able to do the update-manager test
<bluesabre> no network at the office
<knome> aha
<knome> what kind of office is that?
<knome> even one test is good though.
<knomester> hello!
<knome> desktop test passes!
<bluesabre> cool
<knome> now meh, the upgrade tests
<bluesabre> gotta go
<bluesabre> bbl
<knome> hf
<knome> getting the i386 first, it seems
<knome> i'll run the update-manager test for that 
<knome> i have a cool idea.
<knome> let's create a small ISO with "sample content" that people can use to test stuff.
<knome> or let's add some to the xubuntu iso, alternatively
<knome> how can i run an upgrade test from Q to R if i can't get Q installing?
 * smartboyhw waves
<knome> hello.
<GridCube> hi
<smartboyhw> GridCube, /me waves
<GridCube> wusup
<GridCube> knome, for the wallpaper issue, we have the deviantART group we are not using at all
<knome> GridCube, i know. but that's not the scope of this wallpaper-gathering anyway
<GridCube> ok :) just saying
<knome> yes, we should get the deviantart group fixed asap too
<knome> i think one of the important things is to decide/see where it falls, eg. what's the purpose
<knome> because it's clearly not a communication method, it's not something the team should use when working with new artwork
<knome> we also don't want to fix any submission to deviantart or flickr any more, they should be on the wiki or the mailing list for archiving purposes
<GridCube> i see, but deviantART community is huge, and it would gather a rather nice amount of people if we offered them some incentive, like, make a nice wallpaper, it could be featured on an operative system release with your name in it, winkwink
<knome> yes, but we don't want to promise that
<knome> and what's the benefit of having a "nice amount of people" who only want their wallpaper included on the distro?
<knome> that's the easiest job/task, i'd rather get *one* new contributor that could help with the heavy lifting
<knome> having to pick a wallpaper from many and again many submissions only make our workload bigger
<knome> and as other distros' "contests" have shown us, somebody from the team needs to make the pick unless you want to tell your community that you're not picking the wallpapers they voted the most
<GridCube> knome, thats just an example
<knome> please point me to a better example, where our workload doesn't dramatically rise?
<GridCube> knome, yes i understand, it has its issues, but its just there
<knome> but being just there is not providing incentive.
<pleia2> oh good, knome is back
<GridCube> true, but we arent doing anything else tho, being just there is worthless
<knome> i am.
<knome> GridCube, yes, i understand and agree.
<bluesabre_> I think it has its purpose, maybe not for aggregating potential distro includes, but rather a place for people that want to make their work more easily available for other xubuntu lovers
<knome> bluesabre_, this is again just an example, but when you say that, i think "xfce-look.org" and then i think "omg"
<GridCube> mmhm yes, like showing your desktop, sharing modification, explaining how to get them
<bluesabre_> lol
<bluesabre_> xfce-look is a bit outrageous
<knome> i don't think it's realistic that we would moderate everything on the group, but we can try to steer the direction
<knome> i would definitely back up the idea of "share your xubuntu screenshots here"
<knome> but even that can create some "i must puke" -reactions, tbh...
<bluesabre_> lol
<GridCube> its not that complex. we set rules as what is an acceptable submission, we say for example, when you upload a desktop screenshot you need to explain what you did, what theme you are using, wich icons, what font, details
<knome> bluesabre_, can you elaborate what you meant with "work" to be shared/made available?
<GridCube> if its ugly people will just past it, if it nice it will stand out
<bluesabre_> quality wps, themes, and screenshots of their desktop config
<GridCube> exactly
<bluesabre_> it doesn't have to be crap
<GridCube> dual monitor wallpapers
<knome> the point is that if there's going to be more ugly than nice, it's soon going to be a junkyard.
<knome> bluesabre_, no, but we can't moderate everything
<bluesabre_> true
<knome> or even if we technically could... we can't.
<bluesabre_> but we don't have to, it would be a completely community resource
<knome> that's not realistic, and otoh i don't want to make any statements that people could interpret as "the xubuntu team thinks i'm/my setup is not worthy"
<bluesabre_> we can have light moderation of course, but it can be steered in the right direction
<knome> yeah.
<knome> i'm wondering how we can steer that
<bluesabre_> its really no different than our facebook and google+ communities
<GridCube> knome, true, but you make rules, if people dont follow them then they are not showcased, if it turns into a junkyard then we are doing something wrong whit our time
<GridCube> i dont think it will because i think xubuntu can be made beautiful.
<bluesabre_> I think knome's concern is the "our time" part, we don't really need another resource sink
<GridCube> and people with time and interest in subminting will show that
<knome> GridCube, my point is that if it's start turning into a junkyard, people are just posting junk, and there's nothing we *should* do about that, because we shouldn't use our time in that
<GridCube> oh, right, but i think we do, because desktops are in fight right now, and we should show ours its a very good option
<knome> GridCube, i understand that xubuntu can be made beuatiful, but some people like "pink unicorn with hentai characters" wallpaper with "bubblybobbly-yellow-red" theme
<GridCube> true
<GridCube> and some other people does too, so they will like that user submition
<knome> GridCube, for starters, i personally don't think there is any DE "war" (or at least i don't like to think it's a competition anyway)
<knome> GridCube, the other point is that since we can't moderate the feed, it might or might not turn into a good showcase for our product
<GridCube> we can moderate
<knome> yes, technically, but again the point is that we shouldn't waste our time in that
<knome> rather than doing that, i'd close the dA group and let the artowork team create one awesome wallpaper per cycle and post that everywhere
<GridCube> and again, my point is that its not a waste of time. But we should leave this for other moment
<knome> ...which is kind of what we're doing now
<GridCube> knome, but we should integrate more of the users, make them care
<knome> i understand your point of view completely, but from my point of view, i'd rather steer *your* time and other resources in something else than moderating any social network group
<knome> something that we *know* will benefit xubuntu
<GridCube> like?
<knome> like anything on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-flavor-xubuntu.html
<knome> like doing team reports weekly.
<pleia2> fwiw, we can't actually tie something that has "pink unicorn with hentai characters" to xubuntu, this would have to live very much outside the ubuntu-sphere
<GridCube> and how can any of those be made by non-xubuntu developers?
<knome> s/hentai/anime/, that would make it guidelines-compliant :P
<GridCube> not saying that we shouldn't do that
<pleia2> knome: perhaps, but there is some pretty offensive anime too
<GridCube> ah, nevermind, you are right
<GridCube> if you and the rest are not willing to expend time on this there is no reason for me to do so
<pleia2> I have to keep a pretty close eye on the facebook page to make sure people don't post awful screensots :(
<knome> GridCube, well, you *are* a member of xubuntu-team, and if you work on something that needs more permissions and prove to do it well, we'll *get* you the permissions
<knome> pleia2, i thought that was all simply called hentai :P
<pleia2> knome: plenty that can happen without crossing that line that I really don't want to be exposed to :)
<knome> GridCube, no, the point is we should make it clear to ourself what the purpose is
<knome> pleia2, yeah, i agree. anime etc. falls to the same category than fantasy/scifi for me... and you know what that means :P
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> it's hard to moderate an image community
<knome> yes, and we don't want to waste the time in that
<bluesabre_> knome definitely googled that to figure out the difference
<pleia2> lol
<knome> bluesabre_, hah. :)
<pleia2> "what is that in your browser history?" "I was doing research for xubuntu!" "NO MORE XUBUNTU FOR YOU"
<knome> well there's the private browsing mode
<pleia2> lol
<knome> for umm... present shopping
 * knome whistles
<bluesabre_> :D
<knome> GridCube, i don't know dA technically... but theoretically, could we moderate the group in a way that *nothing* gets through unless we approve it?
<knome> that with some volunteers from the dA community (who have proved to be fine) might be a solution
<knome> because i just kind of understood what pleia2 said too, there's something we definitely don't want to get published under any circumstances
<bluesabre_> knome, I'm surprised I didn't get a blueprint assigned to me this cycle, with the exception of get mentored, which I have so far failed at :)
<knome> bluesabre_, you probably should have been more active with it then
<knome> ;)=
<bluesabre_> but everybody wants a pretty media player!
<knome> the point is, i can't force anybody take any blueprints/work items
<bluesabre_> x.x
<knome> there are a lot which are assigned the to various xubuntu teams
<GridCube> knome, yes, you can even make so you need the vote of 2 or more people to let something reach the group gallery
<bluesabre_> true
<knome> GridCube, i don't think even that goes. it would need to get through specific moderators
<knome> the problem is we don't know at all how much submissions we're going to get
<GridCube> you can get suggestions or submisions, they are different
<GridCube> suggestions will make it so the group points to the user that created the content, submissions will showcase them inside the group
<GridCube> you can have "favourites" too, that has its own gallery
<GridCube> as said, there is a lot of ways to moderate and to "detach" from the content
<knome> can you moderate suggestions as well?
<GridCube> you can make that people can only suggest from certain sections, i think, like they submit a wallpaper to the wallpaper section and suggest it, but if they subbmit it to the photography/erotic/pinups then no
<knome> that would work too
<knome> though people can still post to "wrong" section
<GridCube> yes
<knome> don't know how quickly they'll be taken down
<GridCube> but thats handled by deviantART administration, it depends on the amount of reports
<knome> aha
<GridCube> yeah, well life ain't perfect
<knome> the problem is that the moderation in dA goes clearly in different order than in FOSS
<knome> in FOSS, you prove yourself trusted first, then you'll get access
<knome> in dA, you can push things right away, and then you *might* get the "untrusted" status
<knome> or, in other words, "lose your access"
<knome> anyway, i don't want to make anybody waste their time doing dA moderation, not because i don't think the dA group is worthy or can be useful but just because i think there are better things to do too
<Unit193> Like moderate the -users list?
<knome> well tbh even that is a waste of time...
<pleia2> that's why we don't moderate every post of the users list
<pleia2> but you would have to in an image community
<knome> but at least the list has a purpose and is potentially helpful for a significant proportion of our users
<GridCube> true
<GridCube> as said, if not enough energy and interest is put toward this then it makes no sense for me to do so
<GridCube> i can't be doing this alone
<knome> i'm not against it fundamentally. it
<GridCube> i understand
<knome> i just don't want us to use too much resources into it
<GridCube> im not blaming you or anything, i completely understand
<GridCube> i think it would be nice, thats all
<knome> since i don't know dA technically or it's social circles, it's really hard for me to evaluate how big chances there are that the group fails
<knome> i'd wait for input from ochosi to the discussion we just had, then see where we are at
<lderan> quick query is the bug list for xubuntu here https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team or here https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev or is it both?
<mr_pouit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<lderan> ah awesome thanks
<ochosi> hey mr_pouit 
 * astraljava got good news today at work; the head honcho was visiting, and we discussed the future strategies. As we're moving more towards appstore-installable products, I naturally asked whether they had plans for bringing it into USC. He was not really aware of Ubuntu's momentum. Cut the story short, I might get part-time promotion to core dev crew within the linux scope.
<ochosi> awesome! congrats astraljava 
<astraljava> Too early for any of that, but thanks. Definitely made me contemplate the job in a little bit more positive light.
<astraljava> I'll try to dig up some numbers to show some estimates why it could be beneficial to put some effort in that area.
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/raring-beta1/ \o/
<astraljava> Uh oh, dang. Totally forgot about beta.
<astraljava> And I'm on mobile broadband for the weekend. :-/
<lderan> hopefully congrats astraljava \o/
 * micahg hopes we get good feedback from beta 1
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<ochosi> is there still time for gtk-theme-config?
<micahg> if it's needed, sure
<micahg> ochosi: please file the FFe paperwork per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<micahg> and feel free to subscribe me
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> well, 'needed'
<micahg> I say needed since any new source at this point requires release team approval
<ochosi> it's a small script with UI that let's you change your gtk-theme's colors
<ochosi> that's handy, but not critical
<ochosi> good for accessability though
<micahg> if it's something we're targeting for 13.04, go ahead and file the FFe
<ochosi> yeah, will do
<ochosi> micahg: see bug #1155335
<ubottu> bug 1155335 in Ubuntu "FFe: Include gtk-theme-config in Raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155335
<ochosi> (hope this is fine)
 * micahg subscribed -release and himself
<micahg> ochosi: thanks
<ochosi> hm, i thoughht i subscribed you...
<ochosi> on the ipad this was not a very easy task :)
<ochosi> micahg: well thank you!
<micahg> hrm ,maybe you did
<micahg> yes, you did
<micahg> I didn't notice
<ochosi> k :)
<knome> yay, release
<knome> heh, looks like somebody typoed the blog article title :D
<pleia2> oops, many ns
<knome> i'm sure it was me
<knome> i just fixed it in x.org
<knome> probably no reason to fix on twitter or other social media outlets
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> astraljava, shiny!
<knome> ochosi, you still around?
<Unit193> knome: He isn't.
<knome> ah, so he said
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-15
<bluesabre_> hey micahg, is catfish 0.6 still possible for raring?
<knome> bluesabre_, anything is possible with FFe
<abderraouf> hi
<GridCube> !hi | abderraouf 
<abderraouf> xubuntu for who new on gnu linux , true? and not just for english speakers
<holstein> abderraouf: are you askig if xubuntu is for new users? new to linux? xubuntu is not necessarily catering to new users, but its simple and clean by design and appropriate
<abderraouf> xfce4-xkb-plugin , that what's need!
<abderraouf> you mush add that package by default :)
<abderraouf> i love xubuntu ^_^
<GridCube> :D
<abderraouf> and they ara a bug on "xfce4-xkb-plugin"
<abderraouf> when restart the pc the settings back to default :(
<holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-xkb-plugin/+bug/944468
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 944468 in xfce4-xkb-plugin (Ubuntu) "keyboard layouts plugin forgets all settings at random times" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<abderraouf> so am will find that bug on 13.04?
<holstein> abderraouf: 13.04 is #ubuntu+1 ..i would just load it up live and check
<holstein> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1418047.html is relevant
<abderraouf> But you solved the problem or not?
<abderraouf> :d
<holstein> abderraouf: im not sure if any volunteers are looking into that package right now..
<holstein> abderraouf: i would mark yourself on that bug report i linked, and read it and add to it.. consider going upstream.. and try a few of the work arounds mentioned in the links i gave
<holstein> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/
<abderraouf> i solved the problem :)
<abderraouf> but new to xubuntu don't know this problem
<holstein> abderraouf: you put your "fix" in that bug report?
<abderraouf> no
<holstein> abderraouf: are you going to?
<abderraouf> maybe , my English bad
<abderraouf> the problem on /etc/default/keyboard
<abderraouf> on XKBOPTIONS=""
<holstein> abderraouf: start or find a bug report upstream, or add it do the lp bug
<abderraouf> look: http://cipricuslinux.blogspot.com/2012/03/keyboard-layouts-settings.html
<holstein> abderraouf: thats the best way to get it to trickle in, and get it tested
<abderraouf> i add a comment
<bluesabre_> dbus-daemon is running at 100% cpu
<bluesabre_> any idea how to debug that?
<Maccer> I have a proposal, instead of xubuntu being an xfce distribution... it should be a pure xlib-app distribution running twm, muahahaha!
<Noskcaj> Maccer, oookkkkkkkkaaaayyyyy?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-16
<salepetronije> I have a system upgrade from 12.04, through 12.10, to 13.04. On xubuntu xfce session notifications not working, displays notifications from the ubuntu session. I have multiple sessions. Is this a bug, conflict, or a custom setting on xubuntu 13.04?
<abderraouf> hi all
<abderraouf> how i canchange xfce4-xkb-plugin label? for example: fr to en, and ara to ar
<abderraouf_> how i canchange xfce4-xkb-plugin label? for example: fr to en, and ara to ar
<knome> what's our opinion on synaptic?
<knome> since it seems to be supported, i have personally no problems putting it back
<knome> otoh, i don't see we *need* to do that either.
<Unit193> I'd be more in favor of that than USC, but that's just me.  I think having something that half supports offline package installation would be a very good thing.  If we do use something else, may want to change !offline
<Unit193> But, it is me after all.
<knome> i don't think we're talking about a replacement.
<knome> unless we change the xubuntu mission statement
<knome> which we most probably aren't going to do
<Len-nb> synaptic allows seeing deps and at least tells you the list of other packages it will install
<Len-nb> USC doesn't seem to do that
<Len-nb> I don't know how much that matters to the average user though.
<knome> probably not too much
<Unit193> Synaptic seems to be a little bit of a middle ground, I would have thought it would fall under the "if you want it, install it" but I've seen several in #xubuntu that seem to think it's gone...
<Len-nb> Personally it is one of my "install first" apps.
<knome> i used to use it much more, but apt-get has replaced synaptic for me in most of the cases
<Unit193> Indeed, I have it installed, but almost never use it.
<knome> that's one of the reasons i'm not too eager to reseed it
<knome> if we're not really using it, why would others?
<Unit193> It's a middle ground.
<Len-nb> My use case is different than average. I often do not know the name of the app I am looking for. most users would use USC for that, but because I am looking to see if I want to seed it, I want to know all the crap it drags in. leave it out probably makes sense.
<Unit193> Len-nb: If I don't know the name, I search as well...  apt-cache search audio editor  (with grep too.)
 * Len-nb likes gui sometimes...
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: can you look at getting this medium/major bugfix to R? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9730
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9730 in General "xfce4-appfinder crashes with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<knome> Noskcaj, hey! you seem to have the double-join problem...
<knome> 21:16 Â» Noskcaj [~jackson@CPE-121-217-101-43.lnse2.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #xubuntu-devel
<knome> 21:16 Â» Noskcaj [~jackson@CPE-121-217-101-43.lnse2.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host]
<knome> 21:16 Â» Noskcaj [~jackson@unaffiliated/noskcaj] has joined #xubuntu-devel
<knome> Noskcaj, set your nickserv password as the "server password", and you should be fine
<Noskcaj> knome, ok. 
<knome> less joinflood to the channels too :)
<knome> (thanks!)
<skellat> knome: Unit193 pinged me elsewhere about having an offline installation tool and I noted that apt-offline and apt-offline-gui are under active development while having the added bonus over Synaptic that they also update repos besides allowing for package downloads
<knome> skellat, we haven't got too much questions about offline installation, so i'm not sure how useful those would be for our users
<skellat> I'm probably one of the few who needs to use it but that's due to Time Warner Cable having craptastic infrastructure locally.  Both are relatively small things to sneak in.
<knome> sure.
<Unit193> knome: Recently there was another, but I'm not a main pusher behind this.
<Unit193> !offline | is all but useless.
<ubottu> is all but useless.: If you need to download Ubuntu packages using another machine or OS, check the desired packages in Synaptic and select File > Generate package download script. Alternatively, try http://ubottu.com/ljl/apt/ - See also !APTonCD
<knome> how's aptoncd?
<Unit193> Large.
<knome> hmm.
<skellat> apt-offline and apt-offline-gui are safer and more recently maintained.  APTonCD is great for copying already downloaded package pools between machines.
<knome> i think it might make sense to seen apt-offline and *-gui if we had some documentation for those
<knome> if we don't they can prove to be as useless as nothing
<knome> fortunately writing docs isn't impossible
<skellat> What sort of documents are needed in this case?
<knome> i'd imagine a subpage on the offline documentation would be a viable option
<Unit193> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGet/Offline is pretty sparse.
<knome> yeah.
<knome> and "apt-offline" points to http://offline.debian.net/ which gives me a 404.
<skellat> Should be: http://apt-offline.alioth.debian.org/
<knome> fixed.
<skellat> Between the two, Synaptic doesn't have a way to update repos from an offline state.  apt-offline does.
<skellat> I need to document this somewhere.
<knome> though i don't there is a fair comparison between apt-offline/synaptic
<knome> essentially they are tools for different tasks
<abderraouf> how i can change xfce4-xkb-plugin label? for example: fr to en, and ara to ar
<shiki-> question guys: what's this offline discussion about?
<shiki-> *is
<shiki-> guess I'm too late for the party
<pleia2> shiki-: a tool that allows you to install packages without being online (you download them when you are online prior to installing)
<pleia2> came up because people want an alternative to the ubuntu software center, and the tools suggested have the benefit of also supporting offline sutff
<pleia2> stuff
<shiki-> oh
<knome> skellat, per our strategy document, i'll approve you to the team once you've contributed to docs
<knome> pleia2, hullo
<pleia2> hi knome <3
<knome> pleia2, you have time/motivation to work on [thing]?
<knome> pleia2 <3
<pleia2> maybe tomorrow or tonight, right now getting ready to go out for some st paddy's day fun (beer!)
<knome> heh, ok :)
<knome> what is "tonight" ?
<pleia2> oh, it's almost 2pm now
<pleia2> so 6 hours or so from now prolly
<knome> ugh. that doesn't work :D
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> I'm around for a few minutes now
<knome> did you have a quick update re: case badges ?
<knome> + where do we want to work on the flyer text?
<knome> i'm not sure if i should switch to scribus at this point.
<knome> that would allow much much easier text flowing
<knome> and consistent styles
 * knome sighs at ubuntu doc team irc presence
<pleia2> oh yes, case badges, can you send me a .svg of the image (or tell me the filename if you did and I lost it)
<pleia2> I am sure it's around somewhere...
<pleia2> and what font did we use? ubuntu?
<knome> what's their response?
<knome> yeah, it's the ubuntu font. i can convert to paths
<pleia2> I'm going to work with them to try and re-create it all vectorized, they wanted an illustrator vector image :(
<knome> (i can't remember if i did or not)
<knome> lawl
<knome> well
<knome> let's say so:
<knome> i can do it...
<knome> but that's not viable for our uesrs
<knome> *users
<knome> s/do it/get it done/
<pleia2> yeah, we can provide both formats to users I think though?
<knome> not sure.
<knome> probably depends on what "traces" illustrator leaves in the file
<pleia2> ah
<knome> the other option is to switch vendor.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> not that I know of any who work with svg :\
<knome> would they accept pdf?
<pleia2> they want vector, non-vector is what caused pixel problems
<pleia2> pdf is non-vector
<knome> no
<pleia2> oh
<knome> well,
<knome> at least text is non-vector..
<knome> err
<knome> vector
<knome> not sure about pure graphics
<knome> but the point is, they failed with the font
<knome> not the outline
<knome> iirc
<knome> i'd need to check that, but i don't know where my badges are
<knome> oh,
<knome> i'm remembering it all wrong
<knome> heh
<pleia2> it was all pixelated :)
<knome> yeah.
<knome> there *was* no outline... :)
<pleia2> they have no problem doing the font though, I'll send them the link to the ubuntu font
<knome> that doesn't fix it though
<pleia2> well, it doesn't fix the image :)
<knome> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Document_Format#Vector_graphics
<knome> that's what i was thinking about
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> that might work
<knome> because i can't be that lousy in my job
<pleia2> :)
<knome> the problem is that if their first reply is "give us an illustrator file" they might not be the nicest people to work with debugging possible problems with pdf
<pleia2> I think we can send an .svg over too ;) if they want to fiddle with inkscape (which is cross platform!)
<pleia2> they've been responsive, it was a phone call that got me this info
<pleia2> and seemed wiling to work when I said we didn't use illustrator
<knome> the problem most probably isn't that they didn't know inkscape or svg
<pleia2> aaannd they'll do a mock-up, so i don't need to spend $100 and learn they aren't so great again
<knome> their printer probably just doesn't support the svg-workflow
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> (and i imagine it doesn't)
<pleia2> they were willing to fiddle with files to probably make an illustrator file to feed their machine
<knome> mhm.
<knome> can you link me to their website or sth if the had some technical specs (PM works if you don't want in channel)
<knome> the weird thing is that printers usually support pdf, as long as it's correctly exported
<knome> or they support it even if it isn't but then they don't guarantee expected results
<pleia2> namethatcomputer.com
<knome> (and as i've said before, they usually want "fonts as paths", eg. no attached fonts)
<pleia2> it's all really done by email and phone, not so much clicky on website for things
<shiki-> (back to the offline thing: Back in the days (years ago) I had to download tons of dependencies and stuff just to get a basic package working. So the idea sure is great, but nowadays even my microwave comes with 3G ... so I'm not sure if it's worth the effort, if it requires extra work.)
<knome> pleia2, yeah, i hate companies who won't tell their tech specs in advance
<knome> pleia2, i skip those when working commercially if i can
<pleia2> heh
<pleia2> well they've been very helpful, and aside from pixel issue the stickers are really great
<pleia2> they stay stuck, don't peel or fade
<knome> shiki-, internet connectivity isn't always that great
<knome> shiki-, even if your device had 3G :)
<shiki-> well I always gone Windows every time I had to work with such limited connectivity places.... :/ It was just... more simple and easier.
<knome> shiki-, this isn't about hardware support :)
<shiki-> yeah I know. Place A got connection, and you want to install B where there is no connection.
<shiki-> You can grab all the deps and the main package on A and get them to B ...and install them. (I guess?)
<knome> shiki-, yes, that's what you need a tool for
<knome> you can do it manually but that's not what average users will do
<knome> unless they really need to, and then it's usually getting some network thing working, and they only need to repeat it for a small amount of packages
<knome> pleia2, what was our badge size again?
<pleia2> ah look at that, i do have the svg
<knome> lol, yeah
<pleia2> I don't know exact, I could measure one ;)
<knome> i might have an idea why they suck.
<knome> the "default" size for the svg is 60x71
<knome> which is *small*
<pleia2> they ended up using a png version of it
<knome> aha...
<pleia2> which was huuge
<knome> ok
<pleia2> so they shrunk it, and..chaos
<knome> hah
<pleia2> it went "here are the svgs" "do you have a jpg?" "jpg sucks, here's a png"
<knome> seriously, they should've done a test :/
<pleia2> yeah, they will this time
<knome> jpg might've worked better though...
<pleia2> yeah, perhaps
<knome> http://www.computercasebadges.com/customised_badges.html
<knome> 17Ã20 would be 0,91$ per badge if you order 50
<pleia2> after all the pain we went through getting good ubuntu badges several years ago (first ones rubbed off, next ones had a coating that didn't rub off, but would peel off) I'm not thrilled about the idea of starting from scratch
<pleia2> we know these stickers are good, just need to work on the design :)
<knome> err
<knome> ;)
<knome> not the design...
<pleia2> well right, the execution of the design
<knome> hehe
<knome> careful there.
<Unit193> Site seems to be lacking.
<knome> yeah
<skellat> knome: Understood about the Docs bit.  Merge proposal made and pending.  Reviewer requested was pleia2.
<pleia2> skellat: saw and thank you, I'll try to get to it this weekend (quick glance looks good, I need to learn more about docs)
<knome> skellat, we should get the raring branch up asap (i've asked about it a few times, that's the reason for my frustration for ubuntu doc team presence)
<knome> skellat, but once that's done, i can review too
<knome> pleia2, just tell me what you need to learn and i can try to teach.
<pleia2> heh, jbicha has a massive From: pleia2 email in his inbox
<skellat> knome: That's why, if this works like my PPA does, the bump I did to the debian control file in the merge *may* take care of it
<knome> pleia2, want to add that raring branch thingy to it? :P
<knome> skellat, aha.. :)
<pleia2> knome: my email was a larger "at the CC meeting you said desktop docs were critically endangered, teach me all the things, incl flavors details, so we can find people to care for things"
<knome> pleia2, :)
<pleia2> so my hope is that by getting an overview of all this, I'll also start understanding how *we* do our things too ;)
<knome> i'm on top on how we're doing thing *right now*
<pleia2> and hopefully get one of us added to ubuntu-doc so we can push this stuff along, waiting for jbicha to approve a branch is not scalable :)
<knome> the ubuntu doc team proposed some changes...
<knome> that might take a while
<pleia2> indeed
<pleia2> but I have to start somewhere :)
<pleia2> I've been trying for years
<knome> lol
<knome> yeah
<skellat> Ubuntu & Flavors: It Isn't A One Man Band
<pleia2> ok, time for me to go out now
<skellat> pleia2: Have fun
<knome> pleia2, see you :)
<skellat> knome: I gotta get back to the kitchen to tend to my baking for dinner.  I tacked you on as an additional reviewer to the merge proposal.
 * skellat disappears to undertake culinary actions
<knome> skellat, thanks, i'll look at it asp
<knome> *asap
<knome> skellat, bon appetit :)
<Unit193> knome: We're going for en_GB with the docs?
<knome> Unit193, hmm?
<Unit193> As far as spelling, there's always the American way, and the $everyone_else way. :P
 * knome lol's at pstoedit's ai conversion of the badge
<knome> Unit193, if the standard for the source (lang) is en_US, we should do that then.
<Unit193> Hrm, should I bother chaning a couple from GB to US?  I could also s/leafpad/mousepad/
<knome> Unit193, sure.
<knome> pleia2, i believe this is the best .ai export i can get with purely open source software, and i already feel the same as i was cheating death: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_casebadge/freesoftware_aiexp.png
<knome> pleia2, i'll need to check with a colleague how that looks in actual illustrator, and if it appears in vector anyway
<Unit193> knome: If you don't mind taking a look?  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/revision/17  Also had the patch http://pastebin.com/Jhsu1NLT but reverted first as this is a language clean-up.
<knome> awgh, LP diff fail
<Unit193> Some of the modifications may change depending on where you're from, I also consulted aspell. :P
<knome> lol, i see i've been working on the docs
<knome> lots of missing c-letters
<knome> i should really switch to the new kb waiting in the closet, shouldn't i?
<Unit193> And hange your password often!
<knome> yes.
<knome> the diff looks fine
<knome> i'll try to get the raring branch issue sorted first, then see what we need to do with this
<Unit193> `cat /etc/resolv.conf` doesn't help you on a default install, don't know what config file does.  There is a dnsmasq config file, but it's empty for me.
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/xubuntu-docs that's a little different, I'm sure.
<knome> i think that's just the ubuntu package
<knome> we'd like to work on the "upstream" project though.
<knome> i think.
<Unit193> Yep.
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs Something that'd be listed here.
<knome> heh, hmm, that isn't current either
<knome> i was thinking https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/
<knome> actually no, they are similar
<knome> your link just doesn't show the series'
<knome> installing ubuntu natty
<Unit193> Actually, my second diff should also say "If there is no DNS entries listed..." rather than "nameserver" (which should be nameservers)
<knome> don't ask why.
<Unit193> I sure won't...
<Unit193> Went EOL already.
<knome> yeah
<knome> re: dns stuff, i don't know
<knome> if that doesn't seem to be appropriate or useful, we should remove that section
<knome> hmm, i selected i don't want to install updates when installing, because the installer told me i have no network
<knome> it's downloading language packs though
<knome> awesome
<knome> will it download the jonoface-app for unity as well?
<Unit193> nm-tool lists DNS.
<knome> yeah
<knome> updates on natty done
<knome> ;)
<mr_pouit> knome: done, although this is major only because apport pops up unnecessarily (we don't care when xfce4-appfinder crashes on logout, no data is lost)
<knome> mr_pouit, right, thanks anyway
<knome> :)
<mr_pouit> I also fixed xubuntu-default-settings with s/leafpad/mousepad/ in some files :P
<knome> niiiiice
<mr_pouit> super+e (default shortcut) was still launching leafpad (not installed)
<mr_pouit> maybe it's worth adding a test case, or similar?
<knome> meh
<knome> that's a lot of work
<knome> if it works for people before b2, it's fine.
<mr_pouit> ochosi: updated xubuntu-artwork with your latest bugfixes, thanks.
<knome> mr_pouit, i'll send you a wallpaper before UIF
<knome> mr_pouit, can you fix the filenames this time?
<Unit193> (updated: http://pastebin.com/zXRJ4Bk3 )
<mr_pouit> I could fix it, we'll see :P (that'll require another upload of xubuntu-default-settings)
<mr_pouit> knome: ^
<knome> mr_pouit, yup, you could ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-17
<micahg> knome: do we have a matching UBuntu bug
<knome> micahg, there is one, but i think mr_pouit already took care of it
<knome> lp 1058814
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016671 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1058814 xfce4-appfinder crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016671
<micahg> ok
<knome> thanks anyway :)
<knome> pleia2, heh, the 5am sprint wasn't too far away after all ;) going to bed now though... ->
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i'll do a new release for greybird and all the other relevant themes before UIF, maybe we can do one last upload/update then. thanks a bunch!
<pleia2> hah
<pleia2> I didn't come back on time anyway ;)
<pleia2> we should ship with vim
<pleia2> (not really, probably doesn't work with strategy document blah blah :))
 * micahg likes vim
 * Unit193 never figured out how to get it to not mangle tabs.
<kupfer> hi, I installed Raring Beta 1 this afternoon, followed by a bunch of updates.
<kupfer> After that, there was one more update, but it was a bit odd.
<kupfer> It was for the xubuntu-default-settings package, but the Software Updater listed it as "Help".
<kupfer> Seems like a bug, but I'm not sure how to report it.  Any suggestions?
<micahg> you have a screenshot?
<kupfer> no, sorry.
<micahg> hrm
<micahg> I'm not on raring yet, if someone else has seen it, maybe we can report it against update-manager
<kupfer> okay.  I'll keep me eyes open for other instances of mislabeling, and I'll get a screenshot if I see one.  thanks.
<kupfer> s/me/my/
<knome> pleia2, hullo
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-10
<Unit193> "yes, the i386 retracer crashed, I restarted it yesterday"
<brainwash> ali1234: any idea what might be broken here? bug 1280641
<ubottu> bug 1280641 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar not saving sidebar "places" bookmarks after exit" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1280641
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: I can confirm that your patch for bug 1185396 works
<ubottu> bug 1185396 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashed with SIGSEGV in gst_user_profiles_get_for_user()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185396
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/1185396/comments/16
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1185396 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashed with SIGSEGV in gst_user_profiles_get_for_user()" [High,Triaged]
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: thanks for testing, but I think that it could be fixed differently, in a clean way (approved by memory logs)
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: tbh I didn't saw the code for your fix. I'm a bit overwhelmed with work 
<slickymasterWork> I just add the PPA and tested it :P
<brainwash> my other MP for gnome-system-tools got rejected, because I should report the patch upstream
<brainwash> bug 586080
<ubottu> bug 586080 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "[users-admin] "Properties" in users context menu has no effect" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/586080
<slickymasterWork> hmm, well, at least that shows that the package is not completely abandoned upstream
<brainwash> it is actually
<brainwash> upstream means debian in this case
<slickymasterWork> Yeah, I was referring to debian
<slickymasterWork> are you going to report this patch upstream?
<slickymasterWork> aor are you going to fiddle it a bit more
<slickymasterWork> s/aor/or
<brainwash> was hoping that one of the ubuntu guys would do it, some of them create package for ubuntu and debian
<brainwash> or simply just apply it for ubuntu only, it's dead software anyway
<slickymasterWork> well, you're right, about being dead ;)~
<knome> well, hoping for others to do things often doesn't help
<knome> why not do it yourself?
<brainwash> I was hoping that we could have switched to mate-system-tools
<knome> don't think switching to otherDE-system-tools is cool
<brainwash> I was not aware that I have to do it
<knome> brainwash, don't think you "have to", but it doesn't hurt to do that, right? :)
<brainwash> I fixed the bug in ubuntu
<knome> there was that guy writing a new DE-agnostic user tool
<knome> *user management tool
<knome> that looks the most promising
<brainwash> but mate-system-tools is a simple fork which still gets some love
<brainwash> it works with Xfce
<knome> i don't doubt that
<knome> why wouldn't it? it's for user management
<knome> but anyway, using mate-system-tools doesn't sound at all better than using gnome-system-tools
<brainwash> one could think, that it builds around the MATE DE
<knome> and if there is an alternative for those, why not?
<brainwash> like the new gnome3 user management tool does
<brainwash> right, so we need something new for 14.10 :)
<knome> possibly
<slickymasterWork> hey knome, good morning
<knome> bbl, phone
<slickymasterWork> I was away this weekend and was trying to know if the screenshots serve your purpose? 
<knome> yep
<knome> haven't been able to do anything with those yet
<knome> could do next
<knome> and will
<knome> slickymasterWork, done, refresh font page and you'll see your shots there
<knome> (some)
<slickymasterWork> ok, if you need anything else, just ping me
<knome> the next time we need to worry about those is some time before trusty release
<slickymasterWork> oh, btw, don't forget also the three -docs MP's
<knome> i know...
<slickymasterWork> yeah, sorry for being such a pain in the neck :P
<knome> nah
<knome> life is that ;P
<knome> and "real" work
<knome> keeps me doing xubuntu stuff
<slickymasterWork> again, when you're right... you're right
<brainwash> the screenshots contain the word "Sex" (date)
<brainwash> :-)
<brainwash> really sexy screenshots
<slickymasterWork> lol, that's the portuguese abbreviation for friday, brainwash  
<slickymasterWork> in portuguese Sexta (friday) gets to be Sex (Fri) you dirty mind ;)
<brainwash> oh, so it's not a subliminal message :P
<slickymasterWork> who's to know, now :)
<slickymasterWork> lunch time ->
<ali1234> brainwash: i don't understand where to get that version. it isn't in the repositories
<brainwash> ali1234: it's Thunar 1.6.3-1ubuntu3
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar
<ali1234> yeah that is definitely broken
<ali1234> oh, i know what it is, probably
<ali1234> i can't actually reproduce it
<ali1234> it's like the patch isn't applied at all
<brainwash> I can't reproduce it either
<ali1234> but the bookmarks aren't saved under gtk-3.0
<brainwash> what keeps both bookmark files in sync? nothing, right?
<ali1234> nothing
<ali1234> ~/.gtk-bookmarks should be read only
<ali1234> there is literally no way for the code to ever write to it when correctly patched
<ali1234> yet it is writing to it
<ali1234> my installed thunar does not even contain the string "bookmarks"
<ali1234> which means it hasn't had this patch applied to it
<brainwash> o.o
<ali1234> Installed: 1.6.3-1ubuntu3
<brainwash> so the package has not been properly built?
<ali1234> it certainly looks that way
<ali1234> does it even work at all for you?
<ali1234> for me it behaves 100% like the old version
<ali1234> the package will not buidl locally:
<ali1234> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: no dependency information found for /usr/local/lib/libxfce4ui-1.so.0 (used by debian/thunar/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/panel/plugins/libthunar-tpa.so)
<ali1234> dh_shlibdeps: dpkg-shlibdeps -Tdebian/libthunarx-2-0.substvars -dRecommends debian/thunar/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/panel/plugins/libthunar-tpa.so -dDepends debian/libthunarx-2-0/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libthunarx-2.so.0.0.0 debian/libthunarx-2-0/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/thunarx-2/thunar-sbr.so debian/libthunarx-2-0/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/thunarx-2/thunar-apr.so debian/libthunarx-2-0/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/thunarx-2/thunar-wallpaper-plugi
<brainwash> new bookmarks do get saved here
<ali1234> yes but where do they get saved?
<brainwash> gtk3
<brainwash> don't have the gtk2 file
<ali1234> try deleting both bookmarks files
<brainwash> did that, then I added a new bookmark and it got saved in the gtk3 location
<ali1234> ok, try deleting ~/.config/gtk-3.0 directory completely
<brainwash> now it stopped working
<ali1234> yeah i thought so
<brainwash> the folder does not get recreated
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> so it just needs to create the directory
<ali1234> i will fix this and upload a new patch to bugzilla
<ali1234> (which is currently broken)
<brainwash> thanks :)
<ochosi> ali1234: even if window-resizing could only solved within the compositor, that'd be nice actually
<elfy> mp3 player working in thunar after upgrade of mount - so that's usb's working for me in thunar \o/
<brainwash> anyone testing light-locker-settings?
<brainwash> looks like it does not work 100% properly yet
<brainwash> so we need some test results
<brainwash> :)
<schproodle> brainwash, I did a test. Is there an update?
<brainwash> no, should be still the initial release of light-locker-settings
<brainwash> it works fine for you?
<schproodle> brainwash, odd. one still neesds to purge xscreensaver
<brainwash> maybe some meta package still depends on it
<schproodle> It passed the test:http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases/1630/results
<schproodle> I have since tested the settings and function several times.  All on a vm.
<schproodle> brainwash, oops: this one: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases/1633/results
<brainwash> but that's only the test case for light-locker (the actual screen locker)
<brainwash> ah
<elfy> brainwash - are you wkrekik or texadactyl on Launchpad?
<brainwash> no
<schproodle> elfy, appears that they are both from the testing
<brainwash> <- https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch
<elfy> brainwash> so we need some test results
<elfy> off you go then ;)
<elfy> that'll be one more when you do it 
<brainwash> just installed -settings to give it a go... and noticed some oddities
<brainwash> but I'm glad that we already got a test case for -settings :)
<elfy> yep
<elfy> menulibre is the only one without one now
<elfy> and there's only 2 mails to the -dev and -testers left on my list now
<schproodle> elfy, I have a screen shot of the two-instances-of-lightdm-gtk-greeter in the taskbar.  Wanna see it?
<elfy> I guess so
<schproodle> or, I guess I could try ubuntu-bug lightdm-gtk-greeter.
<schproodle> How would I show the screenshot to you -- if you have the time or you could see it later.
<elfy> report it then - you can add screenshot as attachment
<schproodle> ok
<elfy> unless there is one - ochosi had it I thought 
<schproodle> brainwash, I did the testcase for light-locker-setting again.  Seems fine here on vbox 4.3.8 64bit
<elfy> might even have been fixed - just not seen it come through yet - in which case a bug report is pointless
<brainwash> schproodle: thanks for testing again
<brainwash> a screenshot is nice to have, but only log files will help in this case
<elfy> schproodle: you can put the screenshot online for me to look at ;)
<elfy> other than seeing what it looks like - I'm not bothered tbh
<schproodle> OK, don't know how :(
<Unit193> I'll do it.
<elfy> schproodle: imagebin I use http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add
<Unit193> picpaste, imagebin, imgur, etc.
<brainwash> ..or even launchpad :)
<Unit193> (I have it from PPA, no bug report.)
<Unit193> brainwash: It finally retraced the bug from Sat. :P
<brainwash> what bug?
<schproodle> http://imagebin.org/298340
<ali1234> brainwash: ok, gtk does g_file_make_directory_with_parents() to make the bookmarks folder.... thunar needs to do it too when saving
<elfy> schproodle: never seen it - never even seen one there, let alone 2 
<Unit193> brainwash: xorg, crashes on the trusty kernels.
<Unit193> schproodle: From repo or ppa?
<ali1234> schproodle: what is that dark bar?
<brainwash> ali1234: ok, should be easily fixable then
<schproodle> maybe I need a fresh Rx for my spectacles eh :)
<ali1234> schproodle: also what does ps waxf say?
<ali1234> the only way i can imagine this happening is if lightdm-gtk-greeter got zombified... twice
<elfy> image size is creeping up then - 945Mb
<Unit193> Yeah. :/
<schproodle> see wickz
<schproodle> ali1234, don't know what the dark bar means eh
<wickz> jack@jack-VirtualBox:~$ ps waxf | grep greet
<wickz>  3283 pts/0    S+     0:00                  \_ grep --color=auto greet
<wickz>  1939 ?        Sl     0:01 /usr/sbin/lightdm-gtk-greeter
<wickz>  2775 ?        Sl     0:00 /usr/sbin/lightdm-gtk-greeter
<ali1234> i need to see the whole thing
<elfy> knome: new slideshow - where to report issues with it?
<elfy> schproodle: please use a pastebin
<schproodle> ali1234, where do I put that -- gotta a url for pastebin or somesuch
<Unit193> schproodle: ps waxf | pastebinit
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069422/
<schproodle> wickz is on the vm with the issue
<schproodle> ali1234, ^^
<schproodle> ali1234, anything else I might do.  How about ubuntu-bug.  This happens intermittently here.
<ali1234> yes, i don't know what yet though
<ali1234> please don't reboot the vm
<ali1234> from the pastebin i can see that both the greeters are zombies
<schproodle> ali1234, I will keep it up if you want.  Please advise as you please.
<ali1234> please pastebin /var/log/lightdm/*
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069490/
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069491/
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069492/
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069493/
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069494/
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069495/
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069496/
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069497/
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069498/
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069499/
<schproodle> ali1234, ^^ wickz 
<brainwash> and "apt-cache policy lightdm-gtk-greeter"?
<wickz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069515/
<schproodle> brainwash, ^^ wickz 
<elfy> schproodle: they'll know who wickz is :)
<schproodle> okeeleedokeelee, duh
<ali1234> this might be related http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069492/
<brainwash> strange
<ali1234> that would make sense actually
<ali1234> those might not be gtk-greeter processes
<ali1234> does it run the indicators by forking?
<wickz> yeah schproodle is kinda weird
<ali1234> i bet it does
<ali1234> yeah... so this is my theory
<ali1234> the indicator watchers bug causes the indicators to respawn "too fast"
<ali1234> so it something turns them into zombies
<schproodle> ali1234, might this be vbox vm related?
<ali1234> or the indicator is waiting for them to exit
<ali1234> schproodle: no
<ali1234> the problem here is that the process is turning to zombie instead of exiting clean
<schproodle> intermittently
<ali1234> yeah, it's a race condition
<ali1234> if you look on the pswaxf there are more zombie processes
<ali1234> lots of init --user --startup-event indicator-services-start
<ali1234> so this is almost certainly related
<ali1234> so, revised theory: gtk-greeter runs init to send the startup-event
<ali1234> init goes zombie and that causes greeter to go zombie
<ali1234> they both get reparented
<ali1234> init still has indicator-sound-service as a child
<ali1234> i know how to "fix" this
<ali1234> it's a bug we've been waiting for unity to fix for months
<ali1234> however, there might be secondary bug here
<ali1234> ochosi: thoughts?
<ali1234> if you run "top" on the vm, does it say you have zombies?
<schproodle> ali1234, '0 zombie'
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> no convinced :)
<ali1234> those processes may not technically be zombie but they sure act like they are
<ali1234> it is probably part of the "spawning too fast" protection to make it go into a "dormant" state similar to zombie but not quite the same
<schproodle> ali1234, if one right-clicks the taskbar entry, it says the program or window is not responding etc
<ali1234> yes, because it's walking-dead :)
<Unit193> I was able to right click > close.
<ali1234> how easy can you guys reproduce this?
<schproodle> scary and sordid, all that parenting eh
<ali1234> try to reproduce after applying the no watchers workaround
<ali1234> i bet you can't...
<schproodle> intermittent here for about the last week
<ali1234> put INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=1 in /etc/environment on a line on it's own and then reboot
<schproodle> ok...
<schproodle> ali1234, skip ubuntu-but, right?
<schproodle> ^but^bug
<schproodle> ready to reboot...
<ali1234> well, you could open a bug, bug we've got all the logs now
<schproodle> reboot then?
<ali1234> sure
<schproodle> up -- no taskbar lightdm* stuff
<schproodle> what next?
<ali1234> well, wait and see if it happens again
<schproodle> that /etc/environment line is on a vm system that I am upgrading from the iso option, so, it should remain there.
<ali1234> hmm... probably it will ask if you want to keep the changes
<schproodle> Ok, I have no idea what it does.  If it happens again, I will report here.
<Unit193> It'll ask for sure, but don't see it owned by any package.
<ali1234> ochosi: how are you shutting down the indicators when exiting the greeter?
<schproodle> Unit193, It might ask if I was upgrading with apt-get.  What is the difference from the iso upgrade option campared to apt-get upgrade or dist-upgrade.
<ali1234> good question actually...
<brainwash> ali1234: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L2800
<ali1234> hmm... ok that seems wrong
<ali1234> they are launched by sending an upstart event
<ali1234> upstart is going to try to keep them alive until it gets the shutdown signal i assume
<brainwash> already mentioned this
<ali1234> so then gtk-greeter does waitpid
<ali1234> that will never return
<ali1234> or it will but by then there will be a new one
<brainwash> but... unity-greeter does the same
<ali1234> so that's keeping everything around
<ali1234> well, maybe unity-greeter has the same bug, who knows?
<brainwash> i cannot reproduce it
<ali1234> maybe unity-greeter sets the hint to not show on the panel?
<ali1234> this is certainly related to the upstart managed indicators though
<brainwash> yeah, like you've said: race condition
<elfy> Unit193: you got a clue as to where to push a slide for our ubiquity slideshow?
<elfy> or of course anyone else that sees ... 
<Unit193> elfy: lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<elfy> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/slide1/+merge/210291
<elfy> thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Sure.
<schproodle> ali1234, looking at the image of the lightdm double entry, I noticed that the icons on the desktop are missing.
<ali1234> probably an unrelated bug
<knome> elfy, will look at that later
<knome> i will try to take some time for tomorrow to go through all the pending merge proposals
<elfy> :)
<elfy> knome: I don't even know if there are others doing the same thing tbh - I just noticed it a short while ago
<knome> elfy, not for that slide, no
<knome> elfy, we did land the new slides for b1 for the reason of getting feedback
<knome> so thanks ;)
<elfy> :)
<schproodle> ali1234, reproduced lightdm-gtk-greeter -- this time with the /etc/environment line 
<schproodle> ali1234, desktop icons are also missing
<ali1234> hmm... ok, thanks
<schproodle> what next if anything?
<brainwash> ubuntu-bug
<brainwash> regarding the missing desktop icons, can you right-click the desktop to trigger the context menu?
<schproodle> well, when I clicked on the desktop the icons appeared!
<ali1234> that is probably the background of lightdm-gtk-greeter obscuring the desktop
<schproodle> I left clicked inadvertently
<schproodle> right click doe not work
<brainwash> that's not normal
<brainwash> does running "xfdesktop --reload" restore the desktop functionality?
<schproodle> ubuntu-bug lightdm-gtk-greeter then?
<brainwash> yes
<schproodle> will do ...reload
<schproodle> do the reload before bug?
<brainwash> yeah
<schproodle> ok, have not done this before -- advice welcome
<Unit193> ali1234: I'd say so as well, when I closed the window the desktop came up.
<brainwash> so, did the reload change anything?
<Unit193> (IIRC)
<wickz> still doing bug...
<ali1234> wickz: attach all the logs please
<wickz> reload did not correct right-click dysfuntion
<ali1234> hmm
<wickz> ali1234, what logs...appport had completed and browser is open 'report a bug'
<ali1234> finish bug report first
<wickz> OK
<ali1234> hmm i actally have one of these zombies on my machine
<wickz> gotta nice concise summary for me?
<ali1234> anything you like. i'll edit it when i figure out what is going on
<ali1234> "lightdm-gtk-greeter doesn't exit cleanly when logging in"
<wickz> ali1234, ok
<ali1234> although i don't have any greeter processes
<ali1234> wickz: also please link to the bug here
<schproodle> ali1234, what about the logs?
<schproodle> ali1234, bug #1290575
<ubottu> bug 1290575 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "lightdm-gtk-greeter does not exit cleanly when logging in" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290575
<ali1234> thanks. i'll fill in the rest
<schproodle> ali1234, logs or anything else from me, please advise.
<ali1234> not sure really
<ali1234> you could try to attach gdb to the dead greeter process and then get a backtrace
<ali1234> i get it's on waitpid()
<ali1234> *bet
<wickz> I put the logs ^^ in a comment: pastebin /var/log/lightdm
<wickz> I put the logs ^^ in a comment: pastebin /var/log/lightdm/*
<wickz> don't know about gdb debugger eh for a backtrace, please advise
<ali1234> run pidof lightdm-gtk-greeter
<ali1234> then run gdb -p <the first number>
<ali1234> then press ctrl-c
<ali1234> then type bt
<wickz> no stack
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> so it really exited
<ali1234> it's not waiting
<ali1234> weird
<ali1234> i'll need to make a vm and try to reproduce i suppose
<wickz> someone has left a comment on the bug report
<wickz> It appears that lightdm-gtk-greeter is waiting for init (upstart) to exit. upstart is in turn waiting on the indicator services to exit. From the log:
<ali1234> that was me
<wickz> ali1234, anything else from me at this time?
<ali1234> i don't think so
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/1289852 nice.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1289852 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in miCreateScreenResources()" [Undecided,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-11
<Unit193> ochosi: http://paste.openstack.org/show/f7S8clgYUjwHPrancERu That doesn't look right at all.
<Noskcaj> micahg, thanks for the sponsoring
<micahg> Noskcaj: sure, I'll try to get to more tomorrow (I know I have some merges to look at as well0
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> Just please look a bit more favorably on this month's MOTU application
<Noskcaj> I'd wait longer to re-apply, but daylight savings running out means i can't apply till the end of the year if not this month
<Unit193> forestpiskie: Uhh, I should have a result in http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/57248/testcases/1310/results but it's not there...
<Noskcaj> bug 1290691
<ubottu> bug 1290691 in gthumb (Ubuntu) "gThumb has no window decorations" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290691
<Unit193> bluesabre: Know what http://paste.openstack.org/show/2X4hkEWDZcpvJywTCRgD/ means?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, i'm going to guess it's from icu52, not much else i can think of
<Noskcaj> or is the error in saucy too?
<Unit193> Noskcaj: I don't see why downgrading python-datetimeparser (whatever, close enough) would help there then.
<Noskcaj> um...
<Unit193> I'm more wondering if something in the python module is wrong, or if gcalcli uses a deprecated function or something and it was finally removed.
<Unit193> (Had the second before.)
<Unit193> Or, if the module pulled a gnome and just dropped something.
<Noskcaj> well i'll have to update datetime in debian now
<Noskcaj> "Bumped version to 1.0.0 to reflect the major refactoring"
<Noskcaj> from upstream changelog
<forestpiskie> Unit193: you told me you were doing lts upgrades
<Noskcaj> But pyicu and datetime have unpackaged new versions, so maybe trying with those could be a start
<Noskcaj> 1.6 and 1.2 respectively
<Noskcaj> and the pyicu changelog includes "added support for ICU 52.1"
<Noskcaj> which is what ubuntu has
 * Noskcaj nominates Unit193 to investigate further and file various FFes as punishment for finding a bug
<Noskcaj> now i need to stop being useless and get some dinner
<Unit193> forestpiskie: ...No, I don't have any LTS compys.
<elfy> mmm
<Unit193> Noskcaj: If it's not working now, then it's broken and a bug.
<elfy> I'll osrt it out at some point then
<Unit193> elfy: Cool, I was going back to edit and mark it as failed, so can you ping me when you do?
<elfy> there you go :)
<Noskcaj> Unit193, The pyicu changelog also mentions now supporting python2.7 and 3.3, so i'll prepare an upload.
<Noskcaj> but i need to go to cadets now
<Unit193> Well holding the old one now, may check half way through unicorn. :P
<Unit193> elfy: Thing is, I didn't see it anywhere. :/
<elfy> you're going to have to be a little bit more specific here ;)
<elfy> the unicorn is camouflaged
<Unit193> Right, changed to failed (decided it was technically failed and actually had a bug too.)
<elfy> so you could see it - you were just mystified by the camouflage for a while then :p
<Unit193> Eh?
<elfy> Unit193: what did you mean by I didn't see it anywhere?
<elfy> it was there all the time just struck through - all the deleted results are there
<elfy> or is it because I'm an admin for the trackers
<Unit193> Admin.
<elfy> ok - I guess that makes sense :)
<elfy> Unit193: calendar is still wrong - you went the wrong way ... should be 19:00 not 17:00
<ochosi> Unit193: what about the light-locker desktop-file doesn't look right exactly?
<Unit193> That last line.
<Unit193> Exec=NoDisplay=true
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> that's weird
<Unit193> (Also don't need to copy the entire file, just what's different.)
<ochosi> don't know where that's from, upstream it looks like this: https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/blob/master/src/light-locker.desktop.in.in
<Unit193> This renders the entire thing moot, right?  I don't see why that'd stop it from running.
<Unit193> ochosi: -settings?
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> :)
 * ochosi hasn't had his morning coffee yet
<Unit193> Coffee. \o/
<ochosi> Unit193: so, until i get my coffee, where is this desktop file from again?
<Unit193> ~/.config/autostart/ IIRC.
<ochosi> ah ok, now i get the context
<ochosi> this is the light-locker desktop file as created by -settings
<ochosi> why didn't you just say so
<ochosi> this is when light-locker is set to disabled?
<ochosi> (i presume there's a \n missing somewhere in the code :))
<bluesabre> Unit193: my guess is the same as yours, different api
<Unit193> ochosi: That's what I thought.  Well, figured maybe you'd know, or something.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looks more like datetime icu mismatch.
<ochosi> whoa, early morning to you, bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> don't remind me >.<
<ochosi> bluesabre: have you seen the nasty new greeter-bug yet? it's really the one i was describing earlier :/
<bluesabre> oh no
<bluesabre> link?
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1290575
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1290575 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "lightdm-gtk-greeter does not exit cleanly when logging in" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> bluesabre: actually i just read some backlog between ali and xno on #ubuntu-devel and it seems this is not (only) our fault
<ochosi> wondering though why the same thing works for unity-greeter but doesnt for us
<bluesabre> that doesn't sound fun
<bluesabre> but maybe somebody will create a patch quickly
<bluesabre> menulibre 2.0.3: https://launchpad.net/menulibre/2.0/2.0.3
<bluesabre> suppose its time to poke Noskcaj for some uploads since I've not been able to be around much lately
<bluesabre> good news is that I've been looking for a reason to do a new greeter release, that seems like a pretty valid one
<ochosi> yeah, i've also not been around too much
<ochosi> will try to finish some theme stuff today and get releases ready
<bluesabre> ok, emailed jackson
<bluesabre> (possibly) bbl today
<bluesabre> have fun folks :)
<ochosi> righty, seeya bluesabre :)
<ochosi> Unit193: mind to report a bug about l-l-settings?
<starrats> good morning and hope good news for me, I was able to get thru update/upgrade/dist-upgrade without an error message.
<starrats> need to restart bbl
<starrats> exit
<starrats> even made it thru restart without the cursor 'freezing/locking up' on me, I can only hope my bug reports were fixed, even the 'usb-modeswitch-data' wasn't an error message on terminal, 
<brainwash> starrats: that's really good news
<brainwash> was/is the freezing cursor problem a random one?
<brainwash> maybe you are just lucky today :)
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/+bug/1290803
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1290803 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "blanck Properties window" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> that's odd - I can see the same behaviour here
<brainwash> bug :(
<elfy> yea
<elfy> I can tell :p
<brainwash> never noticed it
<brainwash> please run "xfce4-panel -q; xfce4-panel"
<brainwash> and try to reproduce the problem
<brainwash> any terminal output could be helpful
<elfy> I guess I'd need to actually get the damn thing back before trying that 
<elfy> not doing that now - only got 10 minutes lunch left
<elfy> I'll try and remember to do it later
<brainwash> ok, but what do you mean with back?
<elfy> so I can read it :p
<elfy> anyway - not now ... 
<brainwash> k
<brainwash> I'll try to trigger the faulty behavior later
<elfy> ok - well try and explain what you mean by terminal output and I'll see the ping when I get back
<brainwash> elfy: if you start the panel from the terminal and do the steps to reproduce the issue, it will print some (more or less) helpful debug messages :)
<schproodle> brainwash, FWIW 13.10 also has a blank properties panel 
<schproodle> brainwash, 14.04 indicator properties seems to work here
<brainwash> strange, the launchpad report targets the 14.04 package
<brainwash> so it works fine after closing the window once?
<brainwash> maybe you have to close and reopen it twice
<wickz> Description:	Ubuntu Trusty Tahr (development branch)
<wickz> Release:	14.04
<wickz> xfce4-indicator-plugin:
<wickz>   Installed: 2.3.0-0ubuntu1
<wickz>   Candidate: 2.3.0-0ubuntu1
<wickz>   Version table:
<wickz>  *** 2.3.0-0ubuntu1 0
<wickz>         500 http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty/universe amd64 Packages
<wickz>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<brainwash> ok, please add a comment to the bug report
<brainwash> bug 1290803
<ubottu> bug 1290803 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "blanck Properties window" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290803
<brainwash> and say that you cannot reproduce it in 14.04
<wickz> brainwash, me to comment?
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> adding (helpful) comments is a great way to get the problem fixed faster
<brainwash> not everyone reads this irc channel :P
<wickz> ok, how's that look?
<wickz> 1290803 
<wickz> bug #1290803 
<ubottu> bug 1290803 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "blanck Properties window" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290803
<starrats> brainwash:  sorry I missed your earlier comments but thank you and the frozen/locked cursor issue could be random, not sure at the moment, afraid to restart for the hell of it and get frozen out again, lol
<ali1234> tumblerd stopped generating thumbnails again
<ali1234> stopped on 27th feb
<elfy> brainwash: all I got in terminal was http://pastebin.com/4Y3piRx0
<elfy> when I got back short while ago - I had no panel at all
<brainwash> restart it then
<brainwash> and add the wrapper error message to the report
<elfy> what report?
<elfy> oh nvm
<elfy> no need to add it - ochosi did 
<brainwash> oh
<brainwash> he also fixed the typo :)
<brainwash> ali1234: did you check the folder permissions?
<brainwash> ~/.thumbnails
<ali1234> yes
<brainwash> :/
<brainwash> works fine here (test system)
<ali1234> i deleted the thumbnails and now it works again
<brainwash> even for videos
<ali1234> same as before
<brainwash> bug 1290575 is caused by gtk-greeter
<ubottu> bug 1290575 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "lightdm-gtk-greeter does not exit cleanly when logging in" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290575
<brainwash> I didn't notice this after the missing gtk_main_quit() call has been added, because I've replaced signal() with sigaction() + different handler function in my local branch
<ochosi> brainwash: oh, fun. so you've tested this and it resolves the issue? (somewhat makes sense anyhow...)
<ochosi> ali1234: so with compositing, couldn't the shadow-area be used for resizing?
<ali1234> they could be yes
<ali1234> but it will be a big change to the code
<ali1234> the shadows aren't X11 windows
<ali1234> they are just compositor surfaces
<ali1234> so they can't get input
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> so they'd have to be drawn in a different manner? (i'm guessing cairo?)
<ali1234> yes
<ochosi> i was wondering about this before, but would the shadow have to be a separate window then?
<ali1234> everything is a separate window
<ali1234> the decoration frame is 10 windows
<ali1234> that doesn't include the actual client window
<ochosi> Noskcaj: hey, can you take a look at what went wrong with xubuntu-artwork 14.04.0? somehow some folders of the icon-theme are missing in the package (they're in trunk though)
<ochosi> oh wow
<Noskcaj> ?
<ochosi> i thought those were all packed into neat boxes
<ali1234> they are, each box is a window
<ochosi> Noskcaj: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1290390
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll have a look
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1290390 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Folders missing in elementary-xfce icon theme" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> ali1234: right, so i guess that should/could be discussed with nick before even commencing work on it
<ochosi> and after all, there are still quite a few xfwm4 patches that haven't been merged
<ochosi> i mostly started thinking about this again after reading that ubuntu disabled window-borders in 14.04
<ali1234> lol
<ochosi> Noskcaj: would be nice if we could do one more upload before UIF and fix that packaging glitch in the same go
<Noskcaj> ok
<ali1234> Noskcaj: the thunar bookmarks patch needs a fix too... i haven't coded it yet though
<Noskcaj> ali1234, ok. Just link me to anything as soon as it's became my job.
<Noskcaj> I think we might need to revert gthumb to 3.2.6 for release
<ochosi> why that?
<ali1234> i thought we used tumbler?
<ochosi> (not that it's all-too-important as we don't seed it by default)
<ali1234> thumbnails broke again for me
<ochosi> ali1234: you mean ristretto=
<ochosi> maybe?
<ali1234> ristretto is the viewer isn't it?
<ochosi> tumbler is only for thumbnails
<ochosi> yeah
<ali1234> i thought gthumb was gnome-thumbnailer...
<ochosi> ah, no, it isnt
<ochosi> it's an image-collection viewer
<ali1234> oh, i see
<ali1234> poor naming choice... :)
<ochosi> which uses headerbars now by default
<ali1234> oh, that one...
<ochosi> which was one reason why we yanked it out of the default seed for 14.04
<ali1234> what's wrong with ristretto?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Those folders are missing from the actual tarball.
<ochosi> ali1234: nothing, which is why we're using it. before both were seeded (i think gthumb was originally installed because thunar didn't handle digital cameras well, i.e. before the port to gio)
<ochosi> gio/gvfs
<ochosi> Noskcaj: yes, i saw that
<ali1234> ah, i see
<Noskcaj> ochosi, lol@gthum's reason. It doesn
<Noskcaj> 't even use cameras anymore
<ali1234> that thunar crash seems to be the biggest crasher on the error tracker now btw
<ochosi> yeah, our default app set hasn't received too many updates/reviews
<ali1234> for core components anyway
<ochosi> yeah, it's a rather frequently occuring (and annoying) bug
<ali1234> i still can't reproduce it
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> can you give me that commandline again so i can start thunar like that every time now
<ochosi> maybe i can get you some output
<ochosi> or have you already gotten some debug stuff from someone else?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Is there anything else to sync from the artwork git before i attach this to a bug?
<ochosi> yeah, i'll quickly pull in another update from github, one sec..
<Noskcaj> ok. Do you want to make the  changelog entry or do you need me to?
<ochosi> depends, do you want to add the packaging fix as well?
<ochosi> for me the changelog only says "update icons" :)
<ochosi> the complete changelog is only on github for the icons anyway, and there changelog=commitlog
<ochosi> ok, just pushed rev260
<Noskcaj> i mean d/changelog, and maybe just add "Repack tarball. LP: XXXXXX"
<ochosi> ok, one sec
<Noskcaj> ty
<ochosi> ok, please check rev261
<brainwash> ochosi: yes, my local branch and unity-greeter don't call exit()
<ochosi> brainwash: ok, i'll push this as a patch then. thanks
<ochosi> wonder whether the return false; is important
<brainwash> void?
<ochosi> brainwash: that's exactly what i'm wondering about :)
<ochosi> should it be void
<brainwash> I guess so
<ali1234> the gtk_main_exit() patch?
<ali1234> i would have thought that function was synchronous
<ali1234> but maybe not
<brainwash> test it
<starrats> brainwash:  I got an answer back from the ubuntu-bug people and they said my problems were not a ubuntu bug report and I should have sent it to launchpad.
<starrats> but I didn't have any problems as I mentioned earlier in the day, other than I have not restarted my laptop yet
<starrats> other than to comp;lete the update/upgrade/dist-upgrade
<ali1234> test it how?
<Noskcaj> catfish, menulibre, and mugshot are all upload ready in debian now
<starrats> brainwash:  just did a restart and all went fine but will have to do more of them before I know that all is good
<brainwash> starrats: thanks for testing everything :)
<starrats> you are welcome brainwash
<starrats> and that includes my daily update/upgrade/dist-upgrade in the morning
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi, fine?
<ochosi> yup, and you?
<ochosi> just prepared another upload for the icon-theme today with Noskcaj, also to fix that bug you reported (thanks for catching that btw)
<sergio-br2> fine thk
<sergio-br2> it's a thing that made i think... how can it possible to do the package, missing some folders from git?
<ochosi> no idea, you gotta ask Noskcaj :)
<ochosi> but he fixed it i hope
<sergio-br2> is there any hope to update from git again? before beta 2 or rc?
<ochosi> depends on what we update
<ochosi> the main problem is UI freeze
<ochosi> what would you like to update?
<sergio-br2> i think it is possible to complete the apps
<sergio-br2> maybe
<sergio-br2> and categories too. So if anyone change de sizes, it will not get ugly
<ochosi> i think we might be able to sell those as bugfix
<ochosi> just need to report a bug that they're displayed fuzzy
<ochosi> but apps are a lot of work in all sizes
<sergio-br2> ahh, i saw a problem today: xfce4-notes-plugin has icons in all apps folders, but it seems xfce is not using them. Whisker menu and desktop shorcuts get the old icon, without the pencil
<ochosi> aha
<ochosi> lemme take a quick look
<sergio-br2> so, even if i resize in whisker to 128 px, it still uses the old
<ochosi> yeah, that is odd
<ochosi> the icon-name is correct though
<ochosi> (in the desktop file)
<sergio-br2> yeah
<sergio-br2> i forgot where there is other icon like it, the older...
<knome> ochosi, dashitis again? icon-name, really?
<ochosi> knome: what's the problem with a bit of dash-itis, really?
<knome> :P
<knome> "a bit"
 * knome goes looking at open merge proposals
<brainwash> is the xflock4 part of bug 1291019 an issue?
<ubottu> bug 1291019 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "xflock4 still uses xscreensaver by default" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291019
<brainwash> currently xflock4 prefers calling xscreensaver over light-locker, if both locker programs are installed
<ochosi> well the upgrade from 13.10 or 12.04 should definitely remove xscreensaver
<ochosi> so it shouldn't be a problem
<ochosi> if the upgrade path can't be fixed i guess xflock should call light-locker first
<brainwash> but calling -command also starts light-locker
<brainwash> mmh, bug 1286954
<ubottu> bug 1286954 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Please refresh xubuntu-meta for trusty" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286954
<brainwash> but xscreensaver is still present on the daily image
<bluesabre> weird
<bluesabre> is there anything else that depends on it?
<brainwash> what about recommendations?
<brainwash> do they get pulled in too?
<Unit193> xfce4-session?
<brainwash> maybe
<Unit193> Yep.
<brainwash> bluesabre: we ship gstreamer0.10-tools, should we also add the 1.0 version for mugshot webcam support?
<bluesabre> brainwash: it may be listed as a depends in the new mugshot upload
<bluesabre> I'll double-check
<brainwash> oh, I didn't check yet
<bluesabre> Unit193: so, patch time for xfce4-session
<bluesabre> brainwash: the new mugshot hasn't been synced yet
<Unit193> bluesabre: Could just lower it to Suggests.
<brainwash> ok
<bluesabre> it may not have hit debian exp yet
<bluesabre> Unit193: which ones get pulled by default with the iso?
<Unit193> Dep, rec.
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> its already in suggests
<bluesabre> brainwash: so removing exit() from the greeter resolves the issue?
<brainwash> yes
<bluesabre> great
<bluesabre> I'll try to get a new release out tonight
<brainwash> my local greeter branch is a bit different, so I did not notice this issue :/
<ochosi> well at least it supposedly fixes the issue
<ochosi> there hasn't been too much testing yet
<ochosi> but it's certainly worth a shot
<knome> anybody has anything i've promised to look at but haven't?
<knome> i've merged the docs MP's and the slideshow MP
<bluesabre> knome: nice :)
<bluesabre> er... knice
<knome> hah
<knome> ochosi, did you have a clear image of which GTK3 indicators you wanted to seed/use by default?
<Unit193> knome: Already added them. :/
<knome> Unit193, oki, then we're good.
<ochosi> yup, -power, -messages, -sound, -application
<knome> ochosi, anything else to mention, or would that be okay for documentation on the blueprint whiteboard?
<ochosi> i think it's oi
<ochosi> ok
<knome> bluesabre, you still targeting for packageset uploader rights this cycle?
<ochosi> or what would you have in mind?
<knome> just document what we are doing.
<bluesabre> knome: this cycle is getting away from me quickly. I will make an attempt to get some progress on that soon
<bluesabre> but pre-14.04 seems unlikely
<knome> okay
<knome> if you don't mind, i'll postpone that item then
<knome> if it seems to progress a lot, feel free to change it back to something more appropriate.
<bluesabre> sure thing
<bluesabre> thanks knome
<knome> ochosi, did we seed the community wallpapers already?
<ochosi> yup
<knome> marking as done
<ochosi> at least i'm pretty sure they got pulled in yesterday
<knome> okay
<knome> note: seed vs. upload :)
<knome> anything else than the wallpaper we need to be worrying about for UIF?
<ochosi> well, they were uploaded ages ago
<knome> sure sure
<bluesabre> yeah, but are they listed in the xubuntu.trusty seed?
<ochosi> well you know the -themes status quo
<ochosi> other than that, i dunno
<knome> pleia2, wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/SocialMedia
<knome> pleia2, is that stuff done on your part?
<pleia2> knome: still chatting with the lubuntu guy over email
<knome> pleia2, okay
<knome> pleia2, since you popped up, do you have 5-15 mins?
<pleia2> no, I r teh busy
<knome> boo
<knome> well, just to point out what i wanted to get done:
<knome>  [xubuntu-team] Extend website with "recommended system resources" -specs: INPROGRESS
<knome> it's a semi-easy task
<knome> except maybe discussing the actual recommendations, but other than that
<knome> and i think it would be nice to get it up as a separate page so it could be shown on the frontpage
<knome> also:
<knome>  [lyz] Finish flyer development: INPROGRESS
<knome> what do you consider that includes at this point?
<pleia2> we tried to get people to help with system requirements, but it turned into a mess
<pleia2> and I'll have a look at the flyer google doc soon, it's on my list
<knome> sys.req: you should look at xubuntu.org drafted pages. there you see what i've been planning. whether the numbers were final or not, we should get that page up and remove the stuff from the download page
<pleia2> ok
<knome> flyer: i acknowledge that there are some "open" issues in the flyer content, but is there something *else* than the content and getting it squeezed in the template (and then creating a US letter sized too) that you think that work item includes?
<knome> or maybe i should'be said "open" "issues
<knome> "
<pleia2> unable to parse
<knome> haha
<knome> okay:
<knome> do we need to do something else than
<knome> 1) finish the content
<knome> 2) squeeze the content into A4 and US letter size PDF's?
<pleia2> single sided?
<pleia2> or does 2) just mean reformat existing proposal for both sizes?
<knome> i would consider the other (single-sided, 4/page) formats as a stage 2 thing, which looks like it'll happen after T
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> well the proposal is for the three-fold version
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> so no, that's it
<knome> okat
<knome> *okay.
<pleia2> and content is mostly good, just a little nitpicking, should be done soon
<knome> yep..
<pleia2> I'll try to do it on the train if gdocs cooperates
<knome> wise words, nitpicking
<pleia2> haha
<knome> bluesabre, please assign bug 1284720 for yourself
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1284720 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284720). The error has been logged
<bluesabre> good job ubottu!
<knome> launchpad is slow too.
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre, brainwash, ali1234, Noskcaj... please assign any of the bugs in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs to yourself if you are going to work on them
<brainwash> change to "in progress" required too?
<knome> brainwash, any bug status that's appropriate
<brainwash> ok
<knome> just want the assignees set to be able to track who did what on the work items tracker
<knome> currently they are almost all assigned to xubuntu-team
<knome> which is obviously wrong...
<knome> but the best we can do for now
<knome> this also let's us track how many bugs need assignees
<ali1234> on of the bugs is a duplicate
<ali1234> bug 1273687 should be bug 1203296
<ubottu> bug 1203296 in thunar (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1273687 thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203296
<ubottu> bug 1203296 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203296
<knome> fixed.
<knome> no assignee, aww
<knome> ;)
<ali1234> just assigned myself
<knome> thanks :)
 * knome is happy
<ali1234> the bookmarks one too
<knome> waiting for the status site to update itself
<knome> should see a better view of the actual process
<knome> err, prgoress
<knome> progress
<ali1234> i have no idea how to fix the g_slice bug
<knome> i see to be failing at typing today :)
<ali1234> other than auditing every line of code
<knome> *seem...
<ali1234> i know how to fix the bookmarks though. just need to create the directory before creating the file inside it
<knome> yep
<knome> that's good
<knome> fortunately we still have time
<brainwash> ali1234: thunar segfault already reported upstream?
<ali1234> yes, a couple of times
<knome> jjfrv8, what's the status of the menulibre docs stuff?
<brainwash> ali1234: a fix would be awesome, so we can stop the flood of lp reports :)
<brainwash> speaking of flood.. the original report points to a torrent directory
<brainwash> + dvdrip file
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-12
<ochosi> knome: we should discuss the light-locker default settings i think
<ochosi> currently the timeout for the screensaver is 10mins, and after that, light-locker locks
<ochosi> that might be considered too short or inconvenient
<brainwash> should locking be enabled by default?
<brainwash> does xscreensaver automatically lock with default settings?
<knome> ochosi, i think something like 15-20min is sane
<knome> ochosi, i guess locking is turned on when you have fullscreen stuff open?
<knome> ochosi, also, is there an easy way to temporarily turn that off? (or just l-l-s)
<ochosi> just l-l-s i guess
<ochosi> not sure the screensaving-inhibition works currently with parole
<ochosi> haven't tested tbh
<knome> bluesabre, 
<bluesabre> knome,
<bluesabre> ochosi: it should work
<ochosi> yeah, haven't tested :)
<ochosi> but i'll test now
<jjfrv8> knome, I was going to mark menulibre done. bluesabre did the upstream docs and I added the paragraph to settings-preferences
<ochosi> bluesabre: didn't work right now
<jjfrv8> knome, unless you were thinking we needed more
<knome> jjfrv8, ok, cool. feel free to mark it done, just checking if there's something you think needs more work
<jjfrv8> I didn't think so
<bluesabre> ochosi: huh
<bluesabre> well, thats odd
<ochosi> in case that's any consolation, even vlc fails at that
<bluesabre> and you were playing a video, right?
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> laaaaame
<bluesabre> I'll experiment with it
<ochosi> heh, yeah, i totally second that ("laaaame")
<jjfrv8> knome, I pulled the latest version of docs and when I run 'make' I get a bunch of errors: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7076726/
<jjfrv8> any significance to that?
<Unit193> Well.
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Precise?
<jjfrv8> affirmative
<Unit193> basename --help 2>&1 | pastebinit
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/JZCkRK72KUyYG7GOkZmN <--- That's standard.
<Unit193> 8.17 (2012-05-10) required.
<Unit193> !info coreutils precise
<ubottu> coreutils (source: coreutils): GNU core utilities. In component main, is required. Version 8.13-3ubuntu3.2 (precise), package size 2130 kB, installed size 5464 kB
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Err, same ones?
<jjfrv8> looks like it
<Unit193> pwd ?  And where are you running make?
<slickymaster> Unit193: this is the error I get building th docs.I'm getting a permission error when it attempts to run the translate script -> Unit193 http://pastebin.com/Vx1aV7km
<knome> !team | note that we have a meeting exceptionally *tomorrow*, on wednesday, at 19utc
<ubottu> note that we have a meeting exceptionally *tomorrow*, on wednesday, at 19utc: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<Unit193> slickymaster: Looks like it's not set executable.
<slickymaster> most probably I won't be able to make knome. I have to go up north to fix a server
<Unit193> Oh wait.
<knome> slickymaster, no problem. just pinging that you don't just "forget"
<slickymaster> I'll get the backlogs by the time I get home
<knome> yep
<Unit193> slickymaster: Pulled from head and it's working here.   bzr status  ?
<knome> doesn't look like we have anything too important
<knome> UIF on thursday, so last check-up
<jjfrv8> Unit193, it says desktop-guide/po/LINGUAS is modified
<Unit193> That's fine.
<jjfrv8> bzr status, that is
<Unit193> `make` should work if you have that file.
<Unit193> Ah, nope.  I see it.
<slickymaster> Unit193: also pulled from head. bzr status -> http://pastebin.com/td7e4WRP
<Unit193> knome: So yes, can't exactly build properly on precise.
<Unit193> slickymaster: bzr revert scripts/ debian/
<knome> Unit193, you mean, can't precisely build on precise?
<Unit193> knome: Exactly!  Added the dep in debian/control: coreutils (>= 8.20-3ubuntu1)
<Unit193> (17 is required, but jumps from 13 -> 20)
<slickymaster> bah Unit193, already had rm -r xubuntu-docs/
<ochosi> sergio-br2: i think as long as we don't add new icons, but only new sizes of existing icons, it's no problem to update the theme even after UIF
<ochosi> sergio-br2: so if you wanna work on that, go ahead!
<Unit193> slickymaster: It's showing chmods on the scripts  ls -lh scripts/  to see what I mean.
<sergio-br2> ok, thanks
<slickymaster> going to pull knome's revision 139
<Unit193> jjfrv8: So yes, back to too old version of basename, you can either ignore those errors or pull the one from saucy (should cause no issues.)
<jjfrv8> ok, I was going to ask if I could ignore. It doesn't interfere with what I want to see but I wanted to make sure I wouldn't corrupt things when I pushed.
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Translations won't work.
<Unit193> Speaking of which, fi and pt have validation errors. :)
<Unit193> settings-preferences.xml:294: element guimenuitem: validity error : Element guiicon is not declared in guimenuitem list of po
<Unit193> ssible children
<Unit193> 7 in each.
<knome> hr hr.
<knome> i noticed that
<knome> but thought i'd push anyway
<knome> and wonder about that later.
<knome> lderan, you might want to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology#Meeting_minutes with #done
<Unit193> slickymaster: Got yours fixed?
<slickymaster> going to check U
<slickymaster> going to check Unit193 
<Unit193> (FWIW: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/NEWS#n562 )
<Unit193> .16
<Unit193> knome: It builds in a clean saucy chroot.
<knome> aha.
<knome> why would i need one?
<Unit193> (It means it's not just my system it works on, just broken in precise)
<knome> :P
<knome> yep, understood that
<knome> not worried about it
<knome> we aren't porting that to precise :P
<Unit193> Exactly.
<knome> anyway, i'm off for now
<knome> will be back later
<knome> have fun!
<Unit193> Thus, I'd think his best bet is to ignore or get the saucy coreutils.
<Unit193> OK, adios.
<knome> yep.
<knome> or run it in a vbox.
<knome> ->
<Unit193> s/vbox/chroot/
<jjfrv8> can I just ignore, pretty please?
<Unit193> jjfrv8: It should be alright to ignore, yeah.  Just don't break translations. :P
<jjfrv8> well, if there's a danger of that, then I'd better get it from saucy
<Unit193> knome: In case I didn't say, thanks for the merges.
<Unit193> I think you should be safe, yeah.
<slickymaster> Unit193: are you referring to this paragraph -> xfwm themes - control how your window borders look. To change your xfwm theme, go to <application><menuchoice><placeholder-1/><guimenuitem>Settings Manager</guimenuitem><guimenuitem>Window Manager</guimenuitem></menuchoice></application>. In the <guilabel>Style</guilabel> tab, select a new theme to change the window borders appearance.
<Unit193> If that's one of the lines breaking it. :P
<slickymaster> that one is settings-preferences.xml:94
<slickymaster> but in that paragraph there's no 'Element guiicon'
<slickymaster> I'm confused :P
<Unit193> slickymaster: No, look at the po file.
<slickymaster> Unit193: I haven't found settings-preferences.xml:294 in po file, also
<slickymaster> wait, I'm looking at the wrong version of the docs
<slickymaster> Unit193: are you sure it's settings-preferences.xml:294 ?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/tLdVNGxSWvkwH4neLpvx
<Unit193> slickymaster: It's in the po, not the actual xml file.
<slickymaster> I've just downloaded the po file from LP and settings-preferences.xml: ends at 138
<slickymaster> Unit193: yes, and I've been referring to the po all the time
<slickymaster> thing is I'm not getting any line settings-preferences.xml:294 in the po file
<Unit193> slickymaster: Right, it merges into an xml file, so it's not going to be exactly there, unless you merge it in too.
<slickymaster> besides that soltution, can you think of anything else to catch those errors?
<slickymaster> s/soltution/solution
<Unit193> Normally grep, but I don't see it.
<slickymaster> bah, I'll leave it for tomorrow
<slickymaster> Unit193: I'm off, I'll have a early morning and a lot of miles to drive
<slickymaster> cy tomorrow
<Unit193> Alrighty, g'night.
<jjfrv8> night, slickymaster 
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Anything else I can help you with?
<Unit193> s/else //
<jjfrv8> Unit193, don't think so. thanks for what you've done.
<Unit193> Breaking your build? :)
<jjfrv8> :)
<jjfrv8> I think I'll just avoid running make on the real copy of my changes before I push
<Unit193> Remember: bzr status/diff is your friend, make shouldn't be a problem.
<jjfrv8> ok. I'm off too. I'll see what other damage I can do tomorrow.
<Unit193> Heh, saaame to the breakage.  Working on breaking more of it now. :P
<elfy> ty knome 
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> how's it going?
<elfy> could be worse :)
<elfy> sun's out at least \o/
<elfy> bluesabre: just exactly what do you want people to test in menulibre
<ochosi> hehe, same here
<elfy> and if you say everything - look for it during the Unreal Unicorn cycle ... 
<elfy> ochosi: nice to see things merging 
<ochosi> yeah, actually our progress-graph would look really clean and nice if it weren't for the linked bugreports
<elfy> I'm a bit concerned with this keyboard EN issue though - as far as I can see anyone in the UK will install and have a buggared keyboard layout
<elfy> ochosi: lol - looks ok on the qa blueprint :p
<elfy> bug 1284635
<ubottu> bug 1284635 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284635
<ochosi> right, but i already mentioned that what you see in the greeter is only the locale, not the keyboard layout
<ochosi> those two are theoretically completely independant
<elfy> yea - I'm not concerned about that - but about the fact that it's wrong :)
<elfy> I'm not saying it's something we can fix 
<elfy> or should
<ochosi> did you set it to en_US in ubiquity?
<ochosi> (i mean: when installing)
<elfy> no
<ochosi> so you set the keyboard layout to UK when installing
<ochosi> and it was ok in the running session, but not in the greeter?
<elfy> lol
<elfy> no - it's fine in the greeter 
<elfy> say you set password to test# - works in greeter, login and sudo something and the keyboard will be doing test/ instead
<elfy> pretty sure that ali1234 and lderan confirmed it 
<elfy> so you have to go to settings - where layout is set to US and change it - pita
<ochosi> yeah, that blows
<ochosi> so it really is filed against the correct package
<lderan> yup confirmed it
<elfy> ochosi: I don't know if it's the right package 
<ochosi> well, at least it isn't the greeter, which was what concerned me most
<elfy> bdmurray didn't change it - I'd guess he'd know
<ochosi> because that'd mean we'd have to fix it
<elfy> yea :)
<elfy> if nothing else we'll need to make sure it's on the known issues list 
<elfy> when I get the time I'll check lubuntu and kubuntu as well for it
<ochosi> yeah, that'd be good
 * elfy suspects it will be fine in kubuntu and possibly not in lubuntu
<elfy> bbl
<ochosi> sounds plausible to me
<andrzejr_> I've noticed some problems with Japanese keyboard on 13.10+gtk3 indicator plugin - the keyboard does not do anything when I switch the language.
<andrzejr_> but ibus keyboard switcher (in systray) seems to work fine.
<ochosi> andrzejr_: what method of kb-layout switching does not work? indicator-keyboard?
<ochosi> elfy: you could try whether installing indicator-keyboard fixes things for you. if so, we can consider either 1) installing that to make sure things work for everyone by default or 2) at least recommending that as a simple solution in our "known issues" section
<ali1234> hmmmmmm..... google aura anyone?
<brainwash> 35
<brainwash> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTYyNzM
<brainwash> "...it's running great on Xubuntu 14.04 LTS with the major exception being the HiDPI support."
<brainwash> more and more people will complain about the missing HiDPI support, can we address this somehow?
<ali1234> what is HIDPI support?
<ochosi> support for displays with high resolution
<ochosi> like the macbook pro retina
<ali1234> yes and what does it mean?
<ochosi> which is 13'' but has very high resolution
<ochosi> so the elements on the screen seem very tiny
<ochosi> unless you bump stuff like DPI, which can lead to fuglyness
<brainwash> yeah, some next-gen apple technology
<brainwash> :D
<ali1234> so what are we supposed to do about it?
<ochosi> brainwash: i don't think we have a good way of addressing that now, the main issue being gtk2's lack of support for it
<ochosi> usually gtk would take care of it somehow
<ochosi> or that's what gtk3 should do
<ali1234> gtk3 is somewhat worse at handling different DPI than gtk2
<ochosi> we can only make sure the "shell" (i.e. panels etc) scale appropriately when manipulating a single variable
<ochosi> would be best to just look at what ubuntu did for unity to support that
<brainwash> right, I'm just a bit concerned that more people will avoid Xfce and use something else instead
<ochosi> (part of it was the indicator-change to support icon-names, because they also scale it up by a factor of 2 i think)
<ochosi> yeah, but HiDPI is still a bit of a corner case (right, bluesabre ? :))
<brainwash> 14.04 is LTS :P
<ali1234> fonts in gtk2 scale correctly with dpi, unless you set override dpi
<ochosi> yeah, but it's not just fonts
<ochosi> e.g. xfwm4's window controls would also have to scale
<ali1234> right. nothing else scales at all, anywhere
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> I was able to reproduce the indicator plugin blank window problem, if you continue using the "close" button, it will work fine until you use "X" to close the window
<ali1234> and in gtk3 the fonts don't even follow dpi
<ochosi> possibly a problem of different ways of setting dpi and xfce4-settings not accounting for it?
<wickz> brainwash, reproduces here as you said
<brainwash> wickz: 14.04 right?
<wickz> brainwash, yes
<brainwash> want to add another comment to the report?
<wickz> brainwash, I thought I had tried that several time but now it won't  give me back anything but a blank window
<brainwash> yeah, something is odd here, should be fixable now that we know how to trigger the faulty behavior
<brainwash> can you try something else please? create an empty file on the desktop and then cut&paste it into some folder (thunar)
<wickz> brainwash, will do...
<wickz> just pasted your entry above into the comment
<brainwash> thanks
<brainwash> so the file will stay visible on the desktop after the cut&paste event -> visual glitch
<wickz> yes, it does
<brainwash> you can even continue to perform file operation (context menu)
<brainwash> like deleting the file
<wickz> delete the file from thunar?
<brainwash> via the glitched icon on the desktop
<brainwash> no, desktop
<brainwash> and it will disappear from thunar
<wickz> yes, as you say
<brainwash> thanks for confirming
<wickz> glitched icon remaiins on desktop
<wickz> When I trash the glitced icon: Error trashing file No such file or directory
<brainwash> Unit193: so xfce4-session should have the line "Recommends: xscreensaver | light-locker"?
<brainwash> light-locker is already present in the seed, so it won't pull xscreensaver then, right?
<brainwash> bug 1291019
<ubottu> bug 1291019 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "xflock4 still uses xscreensaver by default" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291019
<bluesabre> elfy: I dunno, the simple things?
<bluesabre> add a launcher
<bluesabre> add a directory, add a launcher to that directory; do they show up?
<bluesabre> click "hide from menus", is that launcher now missing?
<bluesabre> click it again, do you see it again?
<bluesabre> :)
<starrats> good morning everyone.  I still had a little trouble logging on with the latest kernel, went to the earlier one to get on and decided to try the new one and got on finally, I did mt usual updat/dist-upgrade, skipped upgrade but i'm back on the latest kernel and so far all is working fine.  This is just an FYI for brainwash but others might wan t to know, just trying to be helpful.
<starrats> sorry for the spelling and space bar things
<bluesabre> ochosi, lderan, knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1291324
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1291324 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] light-locker-settings 1.0.1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome: I've pinged the folks over at #ubuntu-devel as well
<knome> ok
<brainwash> bluesabre: any idea how to resolve the light-locker-settings - power-manager conflict? both set the screen suspend timings and are not in sync
<brainwash> maybe detect if xfpm is running (and handling dpms)
<brainwash> and if yes, show some informative message
<brainwash> bug 1290737
<ubottu> bug 1290737 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Switch off (dpms) time maybe overwritten by xfce power manager" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290737
<brainwash> xfpm saves the timings for bat and a/c, so it may override the settings even after session start -> delaying light-locker would not help in this case
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome, lderan: pitti uploaded it
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> nice
<lderan> \o/
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> that was quick, thanks bluesabre 
<ochosi> brainwash: frankly, xfpm
<ochosi> brainwash: frankly, xfpm's timeout settings dont do anything here
<ochosi> if they did influence the X11 screensaver we wouldn't have had to include those settings in light-locker-settings
<brainwash> dpms settings
<ochosi> yeah, those were included so it wouldn't be too weird, setting one setting here and another there
<ochosi> anyway, now that you reported a bug about it, we could theoretically put it in as bugfix
<brainwash> it's not my report :)
<brainwash> so an informative message would be OK?
<brainwash> check for xfpm, show message
<brainwash> a message that tells the user to use the xfpm settings dialog
<ochosi> nah, that's annoying
<brainwash> if he want to change the dpms settings
<ochosi> yeah, if you want the more sophisticated distinction that xfpm makes (on ac,batt) you have to use that and simply set the light-locker-settings thing to never
<ochosi> it should be overridden anyway
<ochosi> because it's only set and session-start
<brainwash> we know that, but the average xubuntu does not
<ochosi> well those that see the conflict (who knows how many) will hopefully make sense of it
<ochosi> not sure what else to say, mapping 4 settings to 1 doesnt make sense either
<ochosi> ideally xfpm will handle all of this again
<brainwash> ok, can you please add some comment to the report to clarify the situation
<brainwash> I assume that it is a "low" priority bug then
<ochosi> light-locker-settings is not bound to stay in its current form...
<ochosi> yeah, already wrote one, havent hit save yet :)
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I don't really know my way around github. do you have a link you could point me to so I could get the svgs for the new whiskermenu icons?
<ochosi> jjfrv8: which ones do you need?
<ochosi> and do you need them in svg, png
<ochosi> the lock and log-out icons?
<knome> ochosi, 16x16 png
<knome> lock, logout, yeah
<jjfrv8> ochosi, ^^
<ochosi> jjfrv8: ok, coming up...
<ochosi> note that the 16px icon is slightly different from the 24px icon used in whiskermenu
<ochosi> (the logout-icon)
<jjfrv8> will it look enough the same that ppl won't know the diff when we show it in the docs?
<knome> ochosi, as long as it is "the same icon", it's okay
<knome> different sizes vary anyway, nothing we can do about that
<ochosi> lock icon: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/trusty/download/head:/locked.png-20130125111841-yl4a77lk07r0je0d-7644/locked.png
<ochosi> knome: the 16px variant hasn't been added to the darker variant yet
<ochosi> in elementary-xfce it has a light grey background (the logout icon), in the -darker variant a dark grey background
<ochosi> it's the same icon though
<ochosi> if you give me until tomorrow, i can do the 16px version of the -darker version too
<ochosi> or maybe later tonight
<knome> that would be cool
<ochosi> sure, no problem
<knome> yeah, np, tomorrow works
<ochosi> who do i ping? you or jjfrv8?
<knome> either works for me
<jjfrv8> thanks, ochosi 
<ochosi> as you wish/prefer
<ochosi> the lock icon is the same btw, so you can already use that one
<knome> i have no preference except "ping soembody" :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i'll probably just ping you both then ;)
<knome> works
<knome> re: lock icon, easier to drop them in at the same time
<jjfrv8> knome, should have another MP for you shortly. updated links to xfce docs for ristretto and parole and some other minor changes to guide-default-apps
<ochosi> ok, well anyway, you h62;9;cave the
<ochosi> 
<ochosi> crap, whatever happened to my ssh connection
<ochosi> it's somehow garbled
<knome> jjfrv8, yeah, cool
<knome> jjfrv8, i merged all the pending stuff yesterday, as you probably noticed
<ochosi> anyway, you have the link now to lock
<jjfrv8> yup, thanks
<ochosi> nice, all xubuntu-related packages in the sponsors queue were uploaded today 
<ochosi> (there were 5)
<ochosi> knome: just pushed the 16px version to -darker/actions/16/system-log-out.svg on github, can you do the honours of converting it to png for the docs yourself?
<elfy> ochosi: I'll check that indicator-keyboard thing
<ochosi> i'll wait a bit longer until i refresh xubuntu-artwork with that
<ochosi> thanks elfy 
<elfy> though ... 
<elfy> how do I put in the password when the keyboard's not set up properly ;)
<ochosi> you'll figure it out ;)
<elfy> ochosi: so ... 
<elfy> it fails in Lubuntu too 
<ochosi> add them to the affects-list
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<knome> ochosi, i can
<ochosi> ty
<micahg> hi ochosi
 * micahg is disappearing in a little bit
<micahg> I still need to look at your stuff
<elfy> ochosi: frankly I'm not sure I can be bothered - I'm more likely to believe that it'll end up being exactly the same on April 18th
<elfy> installing kubuntu now
<elfy> then that'll be all the official flavours
<elfy> the bug got marked as incomplete way back - added information he wanted 
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, those -default-settings merges would be nice!
<ochosi> elfy: right, i'm not saying i can fix that bug for you, but i'd like to see whether we can at least offer a workaround
<ochosi> if the keyboard indicator helps (it can also be added/shown in the greeter if necessary), we can add it
<jjfrv8> back later for the meeting
<knome> ochosi, jjfrv8: icons updated in docs
<slickymasterWork> knome: the po files grow fat in the last two hours :P
<slickymasterWork> Finnish untranslated -> 160; Portuguese unstranslated -> 108 (still ahead :P)
<knome> slickymasterWork, i know, but LP hasn't imported my .po file
<knome> slickymasterWork, i don't translate via rosetta, i edit the .po file directly and then push
<slickymasterWork> I think I'll start to use that method, also
<knome> slickymasterWork, it's a bit easier to translate like that, yeah
<knome> slickymasterWork, poedit is a good editor and has sane shortcut keys, so unless you have to check something (like the exact translated string) you can advance pretty fast
<slickymasterWork> knome: just a question though. working directly in the .po file, do we have to break the translated strings to match the original, or can it be a continuous string and afterwards LP will deal with it and correctly format it? 
<knome> slickymasterWork, poedit will show it as one string, "breaking" in the files is automatical
<knome> ochosi, so who can approve me to the whisker menu finnish translators group?
<slickymasterWork> ok knome, thanks
<slickymasterWork> Whisker portuguese translation is absolutely lousy
<ochosi> knome, slickymasterWork: https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/
<slickymasterWork> thanks ochosi 
<slickymasterWork> gotta run now, work meeting :P
<slickymasterWork> ->
<elfy> ochosi: so now I've installed all the official flavours the 2 not affected are ubuntu and kubuntu 
<ochosi> right but have you tested the keyboard-indicator at all?
<knome> ochosi, i didn't ask that... :P
<ochosi> knome: i guess you can leave a message there in transifex and whoever is admin can approve you
<elfy> ochosi: not yet - only just got in from work - kubuntu was installing while I was out ;)
<ochosi> elfy: ah, hehe
<ochosi> so how did you like the other flavors?
<ochosi> anything that did strike you?
<elfy> other than being able to use the password :p
<elfy> I've not looked at all today - all I was doing was checking this kbd issue
<elfy> but ... I like kubuntu as much as I always did, and ubuntu is still unity ... and lubuntu I've never liked ... 
<ochosi> huhu
<elfy> for names - read DE
<elfy> just installed a new xubuntu - installing indicator 
<elfy> ochosi: nothing that indicator-keyboard does to help, the keyboard plugin does the job 
<ochosi> keyboard-plugin?
<ochosi> you mean the xfce keyboard plugin?
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> strange that the indicator doesn't work/help
<knome> ochosi, yeah, too slow, i was already accepted
<knome> ochosi, and already translated the rest of the strings
<elfy> ochosi: all it does is indicate what keyboard layout is in use
<ochosi> elfy: so you can't use it to switch to another layout?
<elfy> taking no notice of what the xfce plugin is set to
<elfy> ochosi: seemingly not
<ochosi> you could try to restart your session just to be sure
<elfy> I wish I'd taken more notice of when it went wrong - we might be able to track it down
<ochosi> in case you haven't done that yet
<elfy> yep
<elfy> actually I logged out after I installed it 
<ochosi> ok
<elfy> rebooting it
<elfy> nothing different
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> ok, well it was worth a shot
<ochosi> maybe the keyboard indicator only works with gnome-settings-daemon
<knome> anybody else willing to chair the meeting today?
<ochosi> gotta run to the store now, but i think i'll be back in time for the meeting
<ochosi> if so, i can
<knome> ochosi, ok, thanks
<ochosi> bbiab
<knome> bluesabre, any reason bug 1281536 isn't "released" ?
<ubottu> bug 1281536 in light-locker-settings "[needs-packaging] light-locker-settings" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1281536
<knome> Unit193, have you had any new ideas how to attribute translators since the last time i asked you that?
<knome> jjfrv8, slickymaster: can you think of anything major that will land into the docs between now and release?
<knome> jjfrv8, slickymaster: or in other words, are we pretty much good to start calling for translators now?
<elfy> ochosi: I remember when it happened ... at the same time as ibus turning up in notification area
<elfy> installing gnome-settings-daemon makes no difference
<elfy> hope to be back in time for meeting
<knome> i'm off for a while as well
<ochosi> arr, sry, i'll be a little late again for the meeting (~20min), will try to come back asap
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 12 18:59:53 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> who's here for the meeting?
<elfy> just 
<jjfrv8-work> o/
<knome> #topic Open action items
<knome> #action ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues 
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues
<knome> anything new up with this?
<ali1234> it's fixed upstream, not sure if it landed in trusty yet
<knome> okay
<knome> #info Issues fixed upstream, landed or landing in Trusty soon
<knome> #action lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basic Xubuntu tests 
<meetingology> ACTION: lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basic Xubuntu tests
<ali1234> if there's any indicator bugs, assign them to me (if you can)
<knome> #nick michag
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<knome> hmm
<ali1234> or just send me the link
<knome> #action lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basic Xubuntu tests 
<meetingology> ACTION: lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basic Xubuntu tests
<knome> #nick micahg
<knome> #info if anybody notices any bugs with indicators, point ali1234 to them
<knome> #action micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches 
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches
<knome> #action Noskcaj to be in touch with elfy on xkb-plugin testing 
<meetingology> ACTION: Noskcaj to be in touch with elfy on xkb-plugin testing
<knome> elfy?
<elfy> not heard anything 
<knome> okay
<knome> #action pleia2 starts working on getting the Processes wikipage updated and cleaned 
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 starts working on getting the Processes wikipage updated and cleaned
<knome> pleia2?
<knome> #action knome to work on the desktop of the week -stuff 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to work on the desktop of the week -stuff
<knome> carrying
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> please use #info, #action AND the new one, #done as appropriate
<knome> #done knome merged documentation and slideshow stuff
<knome> #done knome fixed docs translation validation issues
<elfy> #info elfy not much to report in qa - only planned calls for testing left are beta and rc
<jjfrv8-work> I don't have any, knome did it all :)
<knome> #done knome pushed a new start page for docs
<elfy> #info xubuntu-qa to get menulibre testcase up within the next week 
<knome> cool
<knome> finally ;)
<elfy> mmm
<lderan> :P
<knome> i mean, with all the hurdles in many many teams
<knome> anything else?
<elfy> not from me
<lderan> nope
<Noskcaj> just a few updates, not really worth a #info
<knome> hmm right,
<elfy> lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basic Xubuntu tests - what's going on with that?
<knome> #done knome and pleia2 worked on the flyer, almost ready
<knome> also Noskcaj, ACTION: Noskcaj to be in touch with elfy on xkb-plugin testing 
<lderan> elfy, for the autopilot tests
<elfy> yep
<knome> he was asking "what's the progress" :P
<elfy> lol - yea :)
<lderan> ah, need to start doing it :(
<knome> oki, np
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info UI freeze is tomorrow
<GridCube> o/
<knome> #info We will most probably need at least one UIFe for the new wallpaper and possibly other artwork packages unless we can get them uploaded/sponsored today/tomorrow
<knome> #info Documentation String Freeze is on March 20th
<elfy> what about changes to default whiskerment items?
<knome> elfy, probably those too, but i'd imagine they are in the pending uploads
<knome> jjfrv8, slickymaster: i asked you before, but i ask you again:
<elfy> so we decided what they'd be?
<knome> is there something more or less major that needs to be landed before call for translators?
<knome> elfy, "everything that's in the slideshow" :)
<knome> elfy, as mentioned last week, or so
<elfy> oh yea
<knome> we think it's fair to do that, because we're advertising that stuff
<elfy> sorry - ignore me
<knome> heh, np
<knome> good to have any doubts cleared ;)
<jjfrv8-work> knome, not major, afaik, but there will still be minor updates to later chapters
<jjfrv8-work> should be done before 20th
<knome> jjfrv8-work, can you give me an oversight on the scale/subject of those?
<jjfrv8-work> before the end of the day?
<knome> i was thinking, like, now
<knome> if you had something specific in mind that we need to do
<jjfrv8-work> sorry not even able to look at work
<knome> if not, then it's probably not major enough to be worried about
<knome> the quicker we have the docs stuff ready, the better for us
<jjfrv8-work> I've been through the rest of the chapters and didn't see anything stand out
<pleia2> sorry, was pulled into a meeting, here now
<knome> yep, that's good
<knome> so basically, we will get a new docs upload on march 20
<knome> and then we can just call for translators
<knome> but practically we can tell translators to start translating now, if we're only going to do minor changes
<knome> and give translators one more week to work
<knome> i've even updated the translation template today, and it's already visible in launchpad
<knome> so everything that was proposed before yesterday is now translatable
<pleia2> hooray
<Unit193> I have one more proposal, but it's more backend.
<knome> yeah, that's not something to worry about for the translators
<knome> actually, there's more of the docs stuff i want to go through, but let's move on, and then get back to that shortly
<knome> #topic Agenda
<knome> #subtopic Start the discussion on the technical review for the Strategy Document 
<knome> i'm dropping this from the agenda since this is postponed in our blueprints; we should add it back when we are actually ready to talk about it
<knome> #subtopic 12.04 > 14.04 upgrades, removing xscreensaver 
<knome> who added this?
<elfy> ochosi
<knome> what's the thing to discuss
<knome> aha...
<knome> ochosi, you around?
<Noskcaj> That it needs to be removed while upgrading
<Noskcaj> i'm guessing
<GridCube> he said he be back >20 mins on the meeting knome 
<elfy> yep - that - I'm pretty sure
<knome> yes... but wouldn't that just be a work item
<knome> i'm wondering if ochosi added it, if there was something else to discuss
<knome> GridCube, yeah, noticed that
<elfy> knome: possibly
<knome> from my POV, the plan sounds good as long as it "works"
<GridCube> i guess it was added to discuss if using lightdm locker
<knome> 14.04 should use light-locker, yes
<knome> and not have xscreensaver
<GridCube> for me it should be removed
<GridCube> it adds problems to viewing videos and such
<knome> i could imagine the discussion was about the technical side
<elfy> though - I'd guess we'd need to do the same for 13.10 upgrade too
<knome> GridCube, again, please, rather file bugs about problems than switch to the "i'm not using it because it's broken and you'll never fix it" -mode
<knome> elfy, yep.
<knome> i'm carrying this, and encouraging any off-meeting discussion on it, if one can help the progress
<knome> #subtopic Documentation stuff
<GridCube> no, im not saying that, i just say that thats a reason im for the drop, there are plenty of bugs regarding the xscreensaver issue with video if you want me to search them, but that was not the point of my comment
<knome> GridCube, right, xscreensaver...
<knome> yeah, we adgree
<knome> *agree
<knome> that's why we want to use light-locker anyway
<knome> or, one of the reasons
<knome> so, docs stuff
<GridCube> :)
<knome>  [xubuntu-doc] Investigate how to attribute translators: INPROGRESS
<knome> anybody have a good idea?
<knome> the translation string that launchpad adds is a bit lame, and we're unable to theme it
<elfy> not even aware of it being a thing 
<knome> basically:
<knome> we want the translated docs to tell: X contributed to this translation
<ochosi> o/
<knome> hey ochosi 
<knome> ochosi, we can get back to stuff after the docs stuff
<knome> Unit193, pleia2: ideas?
<ochosi> knome: sure, i'll read the backlog meanwhile
<pleia2> unfortunately I'm really weak on translations stuff, I don't know best policies here
<knome> from my POV, it's more of a technical issue
<knome> i *want* to attribute the translators :)
<knome> i'm just thinking what's the best way
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> how are they tracked in lp?
<knome> LP creates a translation string in a .po
<knome> where the source string is "translator-credits" or so
<knome> and the translated string is a list of people and LP urls
<knome> ...which is not a list
<knome> but just names and urls after each other
<GridCube> can't we ask them to sign some kind of registry?
<pleia2> it scares me to look at it again, but I wonder if launchpadlib has a way to pull out the names
<ochosi> sounds like a job for a regexp?
<knome> Unit193, maybe we could semi-dirtily hack that off from the translation, and add them to a translated xml file
<GridCube> like "i translated x" and then we check if they did 
<knome> GridCube, no, LP is tracking that
<knome> the problem is not that we need to check if people actually translated stuff
<knome> the problem is that we need to show it in a sensible way somewhere
<knome> or, want
<knome> pleia2, as i said, they *are* in the .po fiels
<GridCube> yes, thats why i say, we ask them to say to us if they want their names, and if they do, they sign a registry
<pleia2> knome: so just grep? :)
<knome> GridCube, the problem that we have is still around. how to show the registry?
<knome> pleia2, something like that, but should be automatic and build-time
<GridCube> oh, maybe a news on our site?
<pleia2> a lot of translators just look at laucnhpad and do translations, I doubt they'd find our registry
<knome> pleia2, and should be able to push the names to a translated file after grepping :)
<GridCube> pleia2, true
<pleia2> knome: yeah
<knome> and news on the site... we can do that as well, but the point is we want to attribute people ON the documentation
<knome> the information is available
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> Unit193, want to look at that?
<GridCube> well i have to go :)
<Unit193> Eh.
 * GridCube pokes knome and ask him to remember the desktop of the week project
<knome> GridCube, done.
<GridCube> bye
<knome> Unit193, that's a yes?
<Unit193> I don't even see what you're talking about, so you'd likely be better.
<knome> Unit193, in a Makefile, strip a certain translation string off a translation, grep it and turn it into HTML markup, inject it into a translated file.
<knome> Unit193, i can help with that.
<knome> #action Unit193 and knome to look at attributing translators
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 and knome to look at attributing translators
<knome> :))
<knome>  [xubuntu-doc] Update the installer slideshow: INPROGRESS
<knome> can we schedule a sprint for this?
<Unit193> If it's with makefiles, that's up to you.
<knome> Unit193, well scripts in makefiles. probably nothing too weird...
<knome> ochosi, jjfrv8-work, slickymaster, pleia2: what time would work for you?
<knome> something on the weekend?
<pleia2> I'm traveling these next couple weekends
<jjfrv8-work> saturday, 13 to 20 or so
<knome> what about friday then?
<knome> or monday
<knome> tomorrow is a bit bad for me
<jjfrv8-work> friday's okay for me, monday not so much
<pleia2> I can try for friday
<knome> wouldn't want to push this after monday though
<knome> is 19UTC bad?
<pleia2> fine by me
<jjfrv8-work> me too
<knome> ochosi, slickymaster: ?
<ochosi> slideshow sprint
<knome> yep
<ochosi> hm, i'm away for the weekend...
<ochosi> taking a trip
<knome> starting from friday?
<ochosi> so no interwebs and no sprint
<ochosi> from saturday early on
<knome> aha
<knome> we're talking about friday 19utc
<ochosi> the current meeting-time is kinda meh for me because it's dinner/movie/going-out time
<ochosi> so it coincides with lots of things potentially
<ochosi> just saying
<knome> propose a time later or earlier :)
<pleia2> earlier is ok for me too
<knome> both work for me too.
<ochosi> could be that i'm around, but earlier would certainly be more likely to work for me
<knome> ochosi, hour or two earlier? or more?
<ochosi> so something like 16 or 17utc would work just fine
<pleia2> ok
<knome> 17utc works for pleia2, jjfrv8-work ?
<jjfrv8-work> good
<knome> slickymaster, hallÃ¶?
<knome> #info Slideshow sprint: Friday, March 14 @ 17UTC
<knome> ochosi, want to discuss the lts->lts upgrade?
<ochosi> i mostly put that there as a reminder
<knome> aha
<ochosi> i personally don't know how this would be implemented
<knome> okay
<ochosi> but there are a few things that should be removed on upgrades to trusty
<knome> maybe we can ask for some help in #ubuntu-devel or sth
<ochosi> one of them is xscreensaver, another is gtk2-indicators
<knome> would it be better as a work item?
<ochosi> both of those conflict with the stuff we ship in trusty
<ochosi> so i guess asking micahg would be step 1 for me
<ochosi> (frankly, i had hoped he'd read it there on the whiteboard)
<ochosi> if he doesn't know how we can do this, we need to ask around
<knome> yep
<ochosi> and sure, it can also be made a workitem
<ochosi> just didn't want to assign it to me ;)
<ochosi> (better assign it to someone with more technical knowledge)
<knome> not sure which blueprint is the best for that, but i'll get it up today
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<ochosi> there was also another question/thing i wanted to raise
<knome> aha
<ochosi> if there's still a minute
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
<knome> #subtopic ochosi's question
<ochosi> I saw we have a bugs blueprint now
<knome> yep
<ochosi> so i was wondering whether you wanna link *all* bugs that affect xubuntu trusty there
<ochosi> even e.g. bugs in gtk
<ochosi> (there is one i'm thinking of in particular, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710909)
<knome> no, only everything that we are committed to fix
<ubottu> Gnome bug 710909 in .General "Buttons are cut in some windows" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> i don't think any of us can or is going to fix that
<knome> or very critical bugs otherwise
<knome> anything we want to track
<ochosi> right, well it's just a visual nuisance
<ochosi> ppl will see it anyway, so we probably dont even need to track it :)
<ochosi> (and i'm personally tracking it for a while already)
<knome> sure
<knome> no hard policy
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> guess i wasn't around when you introduced that blueprint, so i wanted to make sure
<knome> they are just there to track the status on the work items tracker
<knome> added all bugs that were reported against xubuntu in the QA trackers after beta1
<ochosi> right, feel free to move along then
<knome> so that's where that list came from
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> basically the one elfy compiled
<knome> yeah, pretty much that
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<knome> so
<knome> let's get back to normal schedule
<knome> what do people think of making the meeting one hour earlier?
<pleia2> is fine
<knome> pleia2, is that worse for you?
<knome> oh, good
<pleia2> hooray for DST :)
<ochosi> for me it's a bit better
<jjfrv8-work> better here too
<Unit193> So we're putting it back at 2pm?
<elfy> that'd be a pain for me atm - but there's not much I need to be worrying about atm
<knome> 2pm what time :P
<knome> we're proposing 18UTC
<knome> just to try out if it works any better for people
<elfy> did it not get moved from there ?
<knome> it was there because DST :P
 * knome shrugs
<elfy> anyway - as I said - not much for me to be about for anyway 
<knome> ok
<knome> #info Next community meeting: Thursday, March 20 at 18UTC
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 12 19:53:30 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-03-12-18.59.moin.txt
<ochosi> thanks for chairing after all knome 
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<knome> np
<knome> lderan, bug!
<elfy> though I'll not be working next week so can make it lol
<knome> lderan, see the output, no #done itmes :)
<elfy> thanks knome 
<lderan> knome, interesting shall check
<pleia2> ok, added sprint and meeting to our calendar
 * pleia2 back2work
 * elfy was asleep - thought that sprint thing was something to do with translations ... 
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> elfy, lol
<knome> elfy, slideshow content
<knome> elfy, i didn't think you were "critical" attendee, but by all means, feel free to join us :)
<elfy> yea - see that now I'm awake 
<elfy> yep - if I can I will 
<elfy> talk of translations made elfy go zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
<Unit193> ^
<Unit193> http://goo.gl/FRPehU
<elfy> that's right - it's the same as the one already on the calendar :p
<elfy> [19:55] <pleia2> ok, added sprint and meeting to our calendar
<elfy> Unit193 was still zzzzzzz'ing after the translations ... 
<Unit193> Doh, I was paying attention. >_<
<elfy> :)
<elfy> lderan: is there a known issues with light-locker-settings? ImportError: No module named psutil
<lderan> shall check that now
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Not that it matters too much, but figured I'd work up http://paste.openstack.org/show/K6gWcqgQaL9REKQv0rdY for you, will propose in the next merge.  It doesn't entirely remove the use of -s, but if you have the LINGUAS file it does.
<ali1234> Noskcaj: i've refreshed the thunar bookmarks patch
<ali1234> (and hopefully fix the directory creation)
<Noskcaj> ali1234, Are you going to package it or do you want me to?
<ali1234> i would prefer if you do it tbh
<Noskcaj> ok
<ali1234> i don't understand how that packaging stuff works
<ali1234> i always mess up the changelog or the version number
<Noskcaj> branching thunar now
<ali1234> xfce4-places-plugin also needs a patch to handle the new bookmarks
<Noskcaj> Can i have a link to the patch please?
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10626
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10626 in General "Use the new Gtk3 bookmarks location." [Normal,New]
<Noskcaj> thanks
<Noskcaj> And for thunar?
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10627
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10627 in general "Use the new Gtk3 bookmarks location" [Normal,New]
<lderan> elfy, its not on the bug list. ochosi & bluesabre ^^ looks like psutil isn't installed by default.
<elfy> that worked
<elfy> knome ochosi - small point - I agree that default apps should be those we show in slides - but not settings - there's a button for that already
<lderan> knome, found the issue and have a mp up for it now :)
<Noskcaj> ali1234, all done
<ochosi> lderan: i guess bluesabre forgot to update the packaging
<knome> Unit193, gettext -d xubuntu-docs -s 'translator-credits'
<knome> Unit193, though you need to have xubuntu-docs.mo in /usr/share/locale/LANG/
<knome> and the LANGUAGE env var must be set to LANG
<knome> can overwrite the "TEXTDOMAINDIR", but is hacky
<knome> and you'd need to change the LANG anyway, so more hacky.
<knome> and you'd need to create .mo fiels, so even more hacky
<lderan> ochosi, do not know where to add it, having a look now
<ochosi> lderan: my guess would be debian/control
<ochosi> but i have no clue, i always leave packaging to other ppl :)
<lderan> now launchpad dies
<Unit193> knome: Did you test that?
<knome> test what? that command?
<knome> yeah.
<knome> but you need to have those prerequisites.
<knome> which is a bit overkill
<knome> convert the whole translation category to a machine readable format and change an env var for each translation? nah...
<Unit193> Why?  (not real) for lang in language;do mkdir lang/LC_MESSAGES && msgfmt -o $lang/LC_MESSAGES/xubuntu-docs.mo  then parse them, and delete them.
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> Prefer my hackage with grep? :P
<knome> grepping could be prettier.
<Unit193> More hacky.
<knome> but faster.
<Unit193> (msgfmt is fast.)
<knome> what feels most hacky is modifying the LANG var.
<Unit193> You don't need to export it.
<Unit193> grep translator-credits -A16 es.po | grep launchpad | sed -e 's/"  //' -e 's/ https.*//'   :P
<knome> msggrep --msgid -F -e 'translator-credits' fi.po
<Unit193> real    0m1.558s
<Unit193> Ahh, riiight. msggrep. >_<
<knome> but that outputs a full po file.
<Unit193> Anyway, that time output is to compile and get the information for all the languages.
<Unit193> (On the slowest computer, P4.)
<knome> yeah, but does it involve changing the LANG var?
<Unit193> Changing?  Nope, just runs that command with the lang var.  LANGUAGE=fi cat --help;cat --help
<knome> ah, right.
<knome> but meh.
<knome> how's msggrep compared?
<knome> msgexec is supposed to edit MSGEXEC_MSGID, so should be able to do with msggrep piped to that, but it doesn't affect the variable.
<knome> which sucks
<Unit193> msggrep: 0m0.947s, msgfmt: 0m0.734s
<knome> bah.
<Unit193> Like it matters? :P
<Unit193> At this point, it's less than what it takes to format one doc, so I don't care about speed.
<knome> i'm fine with either way tbh
<knome> just trying to find out the "right" way, if you know what i mean
<knome> but yeah...
<knome> now that we have sorted out how we get the string out of the .po, let's discuss what we want to do with it
<knome> and how...
<knome> we want to edit the ln-id....html file.
<knome> sounds fun? :)
<knome> wondering if there is a way to leave a html comment with docbook
<Unit193> knome: Just make sure to grep -v Pasi. :----------D
<Unit193> Also, you need to learn oc, that's the only one you're not in. :P
<Unit193> Again, if you do it with a makefile, I'm out. :P
<knome> how else?
<knome> but seriously...
<knome> doing it with a makefile is pretty much the same as doing it with a script.
<Unit193> Not in my experience.  I can create a bash script and hand it off to be turned into a makefile, or just give the logic needed, but makefiles don't make sense to me.
<Unit193> knome: Which method are we going for?
<Unit193> grep or fmt?
<knome> i guess either works.
<knome> grep seems a bit more clean to me, but i don't know
<knome> we can always tweak it later
<Unit193> Heh, other seemed cleaner. :P
<Unit193> I could make it for both, but..
<Unit193> Biggest problem, is where to put them and how, though.
<knome> the grepped data?
<ochosi> crap, some dialogs in gtk3.10 look awful.. http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-03-12-232831.php
<knome> heh
<Unit193> knome: Looking to keep the LP link?
<knome> i'm thinking do the same as in the other lists
<knome> strip name then put the LP *ID* on parenthesis
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/42GVWEmqZ9RjbHq8AgP8
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i was thinking we should do the attributing per-language.
<Unit193> Sure, makes sense, but that is one language. :D
<knome> uhu
<knome> okay...
<Unit193> It's why I picked es, because it has the best example.
<brainwash> iso image size: 949M
<brainwash> wow
<ochosi> that's pretty much expected, what's wow about it?
<brainwash> I did not expect that
<brainwash> but we do include many packages
<brainwash> and we can reduce the size by dropping xscreensaver :)
<knome> Unit193, for this, and the other
<knome> would it help to merge stuff i was able to drop a html comment in a file where you needed to drop stuff?
<knome> and could we avoid having to have multiple files per thing then
<knome> because i just found out how to leave comments.
<Unit193> Hmm?
<Unit193> ochosi: Normal size is within 800, 900+ is kind of big.
<knome> Unit193, i can make xsltproc output html comments which you could then regex-replace
<Unit193> Is that the best way we can do? :/
<knome> the other option is to replace the translator-credits -string with a new, docbook markup one
<knome> and let xsltproc then create the html from that
<knome> either way, we need to do some replacing.
<knome> but that obviously doesn't apply for the language listing.
<knome> or, well, it could
<knome> in some funky way.
<ochosi> Unit193: dunno, i just expect something <1gb :)
<ochosi> think i might've finally found a viable workaround for the cut buttons bug
<brainwash> this really seems to bother you
<ochosi> yeah, it does
<ochosi> but i think i've fixed it now
<ochosi> (i hope9
<ochosi> )
<ochosi> it's not like things never bother me
<brainwash> :P
<brainwash> so the greeter runs fine now?
<brainwash> well, exits fine I mean
<ochosi> i dunno, i haven't had time to look at that at all
<brainwash> and the seamless transition?
<brainwash> should be enabled if your system is up-to-date
<ochosi> yeah, i have autologin on though
<ochosi> and i use an external monitor, so i rarely see i
<ochosi> t
<brainwash> oh :/
<brainwash> any idea why we even ship ibus?
<Unit193> I purge it. :P
<ochosi> no, actually i have been wondering about that myself
<ochosi> it's a bit annoying and uncalled for, having it sit there in the systray by default
<brainwash> and it behaves strange sometimes
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/VbqkpoXnQlgAH1DJfZIF <<< purgelist
<ochosi> yeah, i've been wondering whether it's part of elfy's keyboard-layout headache
<brainwash> it should be optional in my opinion, so disabled by default
<ochosi> you could do a merge-request for xubuntu-default-settings with that
<ochosi> so at least the trayicon is hidden by default
<brainwash> maybe, but I'm not sure about the pros and cons
<brainwash> there are people out in the world who benefit from ibus
<brainwash> well, I hope
<brainwash> Unit193: gnome-bluetooth?
<brainwash> and what is the deal with gnome-themes-standard?
<brainwash> do we need that?
<Unit193> Not installed, only thing that is close to that name: libgnome-bluetooth11
<Unit193> Also, purgelist will change from computer to computer, I can pull my other one later.
<brainwash> gnome-bluetooth 3.8.2.1-0ubuntu4
<brainwash> daily iso
<brainwash> it does not get installed?
<ochosi> i think we need gnome-themes-standard for a11y
<ochosi> it contains the contrasty themes
<slickymaster> knome: regarding your question, I don't see anything major raising between now and doc freeze, besides your revamp of the start page
<Unit193> brainwash: Maybe I misunderstood, why were you pinging me with it?
<slickymaster> so, IMO I think a call for translators is something to be thinking about
<Unit193> brainwash: Also, the size should drop (as I've been told) because we'll lose py3.3, just keeping 3.4.
<brainwash> Unit193: saw the package on the iso package list and not on your purge list
<knome> slickymaster, that's landed already though
<Unit193> OK, right.  Yes, it wasn't installed so I didn't purge it.  Double checked and isn't installed now.  In do-release-upgrade, it gives you a list of what it's doing, I keep that list and review while it's updating (but, could have missed it.)
<brainwash> ah ok
<slickymaster> answering as I go through the logs
<Unit193> brainwash: Thanks, any other thoughts?
<brainwash> Unit193: maybe some unneeded fonts
<slickymaster> so knome, regarding translator credits we are definitely going with the Makefile solution, right>?
<slickymaster> knome: as for the installer slideshow sprint, for me, monday would be the best solution
<slickymaster> hmm I see now that it's scheduled for friday at 17:00 UTC. No problem, I'll moce some things around to be able to make it
<knome> slickymaster, thanks
<knome> slickymaster, re: translator credits: yeah, we want them to be built always when the package is built
<knome> to keep them current
<jjfrv8> knome, I've been through all the remaining chapters. seven of them need the settings manager entity change...
<jjfrv8> two chapters need to have refs to screensaver removed...
<knome> okay
<knome> that sounds fair
<knome> but nothing too major in the way i was thinking
<jjfrv8> doesn't look like it
<knome> but let's get it done ASAP so people do not need to translate sections that we will then delete
<jjfrv8> I can knock some of them out tonight
<knome> nice
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: if you cab't manage to do them all, ping me here and tomorrow I'll do the remaining ones
<slickymaster> s/cab't/can't
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, will do
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1289563
<ubottu> bug 1289563 in light-locker-settings "no config options for light-locker" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1289563
<brainwash> but shouldn't light-locker recommend -settings?
<brainwash> or suggest
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-13
<brainwash> because people might install light-locker on non xubuntu systems
<brainwash> I would like to revert the "invalid" status, just not sure what your thoughts are
<ochosi> personally i'm not sure whether people really *need* the UI
<ochosi> the settings are actually quite simple
<ochosi> and anyway, that would be up to the ubuntu packagers who maintain light-locker
<brainwash> so it's "whishlist"
<ochosi> i don't see any trouble in adding it as a recommend
<ochosi> so if you want, re-assign it to light-locker as wishlist and comment on why you do it
<brainwash> because of the initial bug description :D
<brainwash> ochosi: can you please remove light-locker-settings from the Affects list
<brainwash> bluesabre: do you consider to fix bug 1280607 for trusty?
<ubottu> bug 1280607 in Catfish "Case insensitive search for non english file names doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1280607
<brainwash> or are there some drawbacks when you switch to python3?
<bluesabre> brainwash: a lack of python3-zeitgeist
<bluesabre> but thats not a necessary item
<bluesabre> so I am going to discuss that with Noskcaj
<brainwash> no one likes zeitgeist anyway :)
<brainwash> but maybe the problem could be fixed in python2
<bluesabre> maybe, just need some investigation
<brainwash> yeah, worth a try
<bluesabre> lderan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1291699
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1291699 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Please add python-psutil to Depends for light-locker-settings" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jjfrv8> knome, pushed the MP with screensaver removed from chapters 11 & 12. That latest MP includes the changes in my earlier one...
<jjfrv8> so if they look good, I guess you only have to merge the latter one.
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, I think all that's left to do is fix the settings manager references in the following chapters:
<jjfrv8> 2, 7, 8, 9 & 13
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, chapter 7 has an 'ndisgtk' entity for which I haven't yet created the 'wm-' counterpart.
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, so if you get around to doing that chapter, you will have to create that entity.
<jjfrv8> knome, all those ^^ changes should only be adding icons and shouldn't affect translations - unless I've overlooked something.
<knome> i'll do a test build
<knome> the entities file messed up some of the translations earlier, but that's now fixed
<Unit193> jjfrv8: See my ping?
<knome> was something easy to overlook, inheriting in multiple levels
<jjfrv8> Unit193, yes, thanks for the offer. I haven't been running makes on the final versions before I push, though.
<Unit193> jjfrv8: That'll be in the next proposal anyway, so some testing there might be good.
<jjfrv8> ok, will check it out.
<micahg> hrm, sorry I miseed the meeting
<bluesabre> hey micahg, are you terribly busy?
<bluesabre> I've created the package for shimmer-themes-1.7.1
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1291739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1291739 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] shimmer-themes-1.7.1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> I don't suppose you could upload it?
<micahg> I think I have to reproduce that one to upload since it needs the orig tarballs
<micahg> hrm, that's an interesting branch
<micahg> bluesabre: is there somewhere I can verify the tarballs?
<Unit193> bluesabre: I just attached everything to the bug with those type of things.  Sometimes they'll work if you can  uscan  the orig.
<bluesabre> micahg: what do you mean?
<bluesabre> this package has always been complicated, I had to do the same with shimmer-themes-1.6.2
<micahg> bluesabre: are the tarballs tagged somewhere like git?
<Unit193> Oooh, there was a way to work with multi-origs, if I could just remember how...
<bluesabre> oh yes, https://github.com/shimmerproject
<bluesabre> each tarball is based on the latest download
<bluesabre> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases
<micahg> ok, great
<bluesabre> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Albatross/releases
<bluesabre> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Bluebird/releases
<bluesabre> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Numix/releases
<bluesabre> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Orion/releases
<bluesabre> the wallpapers one is carried from 1.7.0
<Unit193> create-empty-orig, that's the one.
<bluesabre> yeah, that's what we've got there
<bluesabre> and from the last time I had to do this, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1227402
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1227402 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Please update shimmer-themes to 1.6.2" [Undecided,Fix released]
<bluesabre> I'll work at getting developer/upload rights before 14.10 :)
<micahg> well, to prevent issues of mismatched tarballs, I have to verify the signatures against the originals
<micahg> s/signatures/hashes/
<bluesabre> makes sense
<micahg> actually, let me do this in the morning, I need to be up early anyways
<Unit193> Good rest, micahg.
<bluesabre> thanks micahg, have a good night
<Mirv> once again it's my patch pilot turn and there'a bunch of Xubuntu stuff here :)
<Unit193> I didn't do it this time!
<Unit193> \o.
<Unit193> Mirv: Anything I can assist with, sir?
<Mirv> at the rate pitti is doing what I believed to be preparing, no :)
<Mirv> Unit193: maybe tell if you've checked throuh lp:~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-artwork/shimmer-themes-1.7.1 ? I'll be building and smoke-testing it, but I'm unfamiliar with it otherwise
<Mirv> thunar and xfce4-places-plugin seem clear enough, I'll try to test the claimed fix somehow too
<Unit193> Mirv: I am not, but could glance at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/03/13/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t02:43 for a little background.
<Unit193> Wow, that's an amazingly small queue.
<Mirv> Unit193: thanks for the background link, that should be enough
<Unit193> Great!  (Mica may not have time, he's been under time constraints at work all this cycle.)
<Mirv> ok, the tarballs match bit for bit the git upstream sources, check.
 * Unit193 slips something else in. :P
<elfy> ochosi: I posted in the testing forum re the keyboard thing - try and get more eyes on it
<Unit193> elfy: See the short note about ibus and your issue?
<elfy> yea fleetingly
<elfy> which is great - but if it is ibus causing it - then that needs fixing 
<Unit193> Good to find out first, though.
<elfy> no idea how we could do that
<brainwash> elfy: purge it
<elfy> yes - but ... 
<elfy> will the damage have already been caused
<elfy> and you could purge the world and still be left with US layout
<elfy> conspiracy theorists ... 
<brainwash> well, it's ibus.. you know, ipad, itunes,... 
<brainwash> so it has to be bad :D
<elfy> didn't think of that iHype side to it :p
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<elfy> purging ihype works 
<elfy> I should have guessed at this poor attempt at world domination
<elfy> not sure how to change what package the bug should be against
<brainwash> ibus?
<elfy> too early 
<elfy> what I meant was - I can't change the package that the bug is filed against :p
<brainwash> which package is it?
<elfy> at the moment console-setup
<brainwash> mmh, isn't that used primary for the console..
<elfy> couldn't tell you - I asked people at the time - best guess was that
<brainwash> does your keyboard layout problem also affect the login greeter?
<elfy> no
<elfy> so - how to change the package? or is it because I'm not in some lp group that I can't
<brainwash> or simply add ibus to the list
<elfy> which I don't know how to do
<brainwash> first time lp user? :D
<elfy> you know what - sod it
<elfy> bbl
<brainwash> can you please link the report, so I can read it
<ochosi> brainwash_: it's this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/console-setup/+bug/1284635
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1284635 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Incomplete]
<ochosi> yay, we really got a lot of stuff sponsored, we seem to be doing ok for UIF
<bluesabre> yup, it's been moving pretty smoothly here lately :)
<bluesabre> micahg, looks like you're off the hook :)
<brainwash_> oh snap, greeter screen remained visible for some additional seconds after login.. now I got 2 window entries in my windowlist
<brainwash_> ^ ochosi
<bluesabre> brainwash_, I think the release I am working on should fix that, no?
<brainwash_> well, I thought that it was caused by the indicator stack not exiting properly
<brainwash_> checking logs now, noticed that lightdm runs this command: lightdm-unity8-session startxfce4
<bluesabre> oh, that might be a fancy new regression
<brainwash_> and unity-compositor is running too
<brainwash_> o.o
<brainwash_> I don't recall switching to mir/xmir
<brainwash_> so it's xmir, on top of that the indicator stuff did not terminate properly
<brainwash_> what a mess
<brainwash_> bluesabre: so we maybe need to re-assign bug 1290575
<ubottu> bug 1290575 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "lightdm-gtk-greeter does not exit cleanly when logging in" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290575
<bluesabre> d'awwww I just marked it as fixed
<brainwash_> rebooted my system and now everything looks fine
<brainwash_> partially fixed :)
<brainwash_> the greeter is not the main target now (hopefully)
<bluesabre> gppd
<bluesabre> good
<ochosi> haha, fun
<brainwash_> no way.. I did not even notice that xmir is now activated on my system
<brainwash_> but it may be unrelated and there is something wrong in lightdm itself
<brainwash_> ochosi: do you have xmir activated?
<ochosi> nope, i can't imagine
<brainwash_> because you've also confirmed this problem with the 2 empty windows
<ochosi> yeah, but i don't have xmir installed
<ochosi> so how would i have it activated
<ochosi> but yeah, it does seem like a lightdm regression
<brainwash_> nice
<brainwash_> finding the culprit is not that easy in this case :)
<ochosi> anyhoo, please report your findings on the bugreport and then let's ask robert about it
<knome> forestpiskie, commented on bug 1277154
<ubottu> bug 1277154 in xfce4-notes-plugin (Ubuntu) "Ctrl+W does not ask for confirmation on note delete" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277154
<brainwash_> maybe we could drop bug 1271883 from the blueprint list
<ubottu> bug 1271883 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Workspace Settings number keys do not work" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271883
<knome> bug 1271979 too
<ubottu> bug 1271979 in xfce4-sensors-plugin (Ubuntu) "Wrong color in xfce4-sensors panel bar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271979
<brainwash_> yeah, that's minor stuff and upstream needs to decide
<knome> bug 1271883 would be nice to get fixed though
<ubottu> bug 1271883 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Workspace Settings number keys do not work" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271883
<knome> it's minor too, but it's still... annoying
<brainwash_> it has been always like this
<knome> does it mean it's not a bug?
<brainwash_> I think it's not editable to prevent the user to add like 100 workspaces at once and crash the whole thing
<knome> maybe it should be a different kind of widget then
<brainwash_> I don't expect any change
<knome> i don't expect either, but it's not an invalid bug either
<brainwash_> no, more like "wishlist" :)
<brainwash_> the context menu of xfdesktop also only allows the user to add/remove workspaces one by one
<brainwash_> that's fine for 99.9% of all users
<knome> that's not the point
<brainwash_> I know
<knome> the point is that if there is a widget that normally allows inserting numbers, people would expect it to allow it now
<brainwash_> I mean that no one will complain about this bug
<knome> and if it doesn't...
<brainwash_> it's not a deal breaker
<knome> no
<brainwash_> Unit193: xmir is now enabled by default here, lightdm does not seems to respect the 10-unity-blabla.conf file
<brainwash_> I've installed it manually ofc
<brainwash_> and disabled it via the conf file long time ago
<Unit193> #type=unity no longer works?  Hah, either bug or #ubuntu-mir
<Mirv> I noticed there was recently an update to move the unity conf file to a location from where it actually gets removed when the package gets removed
<Mirv> right, this one https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/trusty-changes/2014-March/011557.html
<wickz> after install autoresize the system won't restart.  Vm seems to freeze.  Happens intermittently on i386 test.
<Unit193> brainwash_: ^
<Unit193> Needs a better disable method, that way moving the file wouldn't matter. :/  (not that it'll likely happen again, but every upgrade in theory will override if it's not marked as a conffile.)
<slickymasterWork> hey Unit193 
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Howdy.
<Unit193> Mirv: Thanks for linking.
<brainwash_> ah, thanks
<Unit193> (I only checked the mir package, not that one. >_>)
<Unit193> Uhh, it's not marked as a conffile, I'd purge it.
<Unit193> Mirv: Because it's in /usr/share, and not otherwise marked as a conffile, that means any changes to it are ignored as the file is "reset" with any updates, right?  Or, is that any updates where the file is different?
<Unit193> (sorry for bugging.)
<knome> anybody who can explain thoroughly what you need to do in order to be able to translate our docs?
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404DocCallTranslators
<Mirv> Unit193: your understanding is as good as mine, the conffiles always require some pondering :) maybe that particular conf file is thought to always remain constant
<Unit193> It's in the instructions for how to disable it, but perhaps.
<Unit193> Thanks.
<brainwash_> knome: bug 1260341 is a high priority one, is this really appropriate?
<ubottu> bug 1260341 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Tapping lower-right corner of touchpad causes a right-click" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260341
<brainwash_> we can fix it easily in ubuntu, not sure what upstream thinks about it and how long it will take to get it approved
<brainwash_> and it's not a regression or something like that
<Unit193> Hmmm, got  xfdesktop crashed with SIGSEGV in xfce_desktop_refresh()  on login last night.
<brainwash_> Unit193: create a report
<Unit193> Could, but can't report to LP, PPA'd.
<brainwash_> update your ppa
<brainwash_> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=6583a1a632779e72ba6ecfa32a10f30980081876
<Unit193> Dowh.
<elfy> knome: yes - saw that
<Mirv> ok, thanks folks, see you again probably during my next patch pilot or so ;)
<Unit193> :)
<Unit193> Plan is to stick with .10 appfinder, right?
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-appfinder/commit/?id=8ef194e8fbf1652b27cf26c0a519c9be08631964 needless to say, this interests me.
<Unit193> Debugging. \o/
<Unit193> brainwash_: Have a beginners guide to debugging, or anything else written on the subject.
<schproodle>  bug 1260341
<ubottu> bug 1260341 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Tapping lower-right corner of touchpad causes a right-click" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260341
<schproodle> testing ristretto: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases/1600/results
<schproodle> several problems:  do I file a bug for the testcase or for ristretto?
<GridCube> did you had a problem with the testcase? 
<schproodle> well what fo you mean by "testcase".  The instructions seem OK but there were many progblems with ristretto according to the instructions
<schproodle> I am here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
<GridCube> then the bug should be on ristretto
<schproodle> looks like the place to list problems
<GridCube> if you find a typo on the testcase, or it makes a reference to something that you can't find, or makes no sense, then thats a testcase bug, if you find a bug in the program the testcase asked you to test, then the bug is in the program and should be reported accordingly
<GridCube> :)
<slickymasterWork> schproodle: what GridCube was asking you is if you think the issue concerns the testcas per si or oth the problem is specific to ristretto
<schproodle> both, probably 
<schproodle> Bug 1292025
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1292025 could not be found
<GridCube> exactly, if the testcase says "click on the + icon" but the plus icon is not there, then the bug can be in either, now if the + icon is there and the program fails, then the bug is on the program
<schproodle> oh, status new
<GridCube> schproodle, you have to give it a time to process
<schproodle> yeah
<schproodle> gotta do both then eh
<schproodle> I will try to sort that.
<schproodle> OK 'Ubuntu Manual Tests" bug AND ristretto bug with ubuntu-bug
<schproodle> that it?
<GridCube> i would guess, remember to add those numbers to your report on the tracker
<schproodle> OK will do.  Thanks :)
<schproodle> Bug #1292073
<ubottu> bug 1292073 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "mouse wheel does not zoom image rather it goes back and forth through image list" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292073
<schproodle> Bug #1292073
<ubottu> bug 1292073 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "ristretto: mouse wheel does not zoom image rather it goes back and forth through image list" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292073
<slickymasterWork> schproodle: updated https://bugs.launchpad.net/ristretto/+bug/1292073
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1292073 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "ristretto: mouse wheel does NOT zoom image rather it goes back and forth through image list" [Undecided,In progress]
<slickymasterWork> elfy: ^^^
<elfy> slickymasterWork: see pm windows
<knome> windows 8 prime minister edition?
<elfy> brainwash_: I see you're aware of which bug I was talking about
<brainwash_> yes
<brainwash_> so lets blame ibus?
<schproodle> Bug 1292070
<ubottu> bug 1292070 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Ristretto online documentation does NOT start browser and display help" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292070
<schproodle> where does this report belong as it is not a testcase problem per se
<schproodle> seems to involve several systems let alone ristretto 
<elfy> brainwash_: seems to be the case 
<elfy> purging ibus - then keyboard layout works fine without an mucking about with keyboard settings
<brainwash_> bug 1291587 seems to be a similar case
<ubottu> bug 1291587 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Cant change keyboard layout in live mode xubuntu 14.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291587
<brainwash_> ibus acting weird
<elfy> yea I saw that one this morning - japanese one?
<brainwash_> no
<elfy> ok - sure I saw it - also saw a similar one but japanese
<slickymasterWork> elfy: I'll have a MP for you to review, about what we were talking, by tomorrow
<elfy> it'll be the weekend
<slickymasterWork> thank god ;)
<slickymasterWork> bbl ->
<elfy> brainwash_: mmm - I'll boot todays daily and see if that's occuring - it definitely wasn't previously occuring
<elfy> and I still have no idea how to change affected package in a bug
<elfy> ;)
<elfy> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/169356804/Screenshot%20-%2003132014%20-%2001%3A49%3A24%20PM.png
<elfy> when I was fiddling about yesterday with that - I never actually saw the GB option - just the US one
<brainwash_> so GB could not be added via "Add"?
<elfy> not seeing that here
<brainwash_> what about other variants of "en"?
<elfy> brainwash_: no - you can add it fine via keyboard settings - and it works
<elfy> but doesn't show in that ibus notification 
<brainwash_> so we need to discuss the pros and cons of ibus in xubuntu
<brainwash_> and why it is enabled by default
<elfy> I've just added GB and Belgian - neither show - looks like it's trying to 
<brainwash_> run "ibus-setup"
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/299150
<elfy> see above the US - looks like an odd area of white above a seperator 
<brainwash_> but the settings dialog is from Xfce, the tray icon from ibus
<brainwash_> both are not in sync
<brainwash_> so please run "ibus-setup"
<elfy> and do what?
<brainwash_> try to add another kb layout
<elfy> ok that works
<elfy> but that's a side issue in my opinion - my issue is that I install xubuntu or the other 2 - and the system then completely ignores what I've set it to
<elfy> I don't care what ibus says - I want my installed system to be how I installed it - as would anyone else :)
<brainwash_> because ibus knows better and ignores the user
<brainwash_> :)
<elfy> this has got indicator-sound-gtk2 for saucy written all over it :(
<elfy> so how do you change the package affecting a bug then?
<brainwash_> so it needs be discussed in the next meeting
<brainwash_> you click on the little arrow next to the package name
<brainwash_> now you can edit the package name
<elfy> I guess so - not sure what other languages it affects
<elfy> I can't click on arrows - only the text
<brainwash_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/1284635/+editstatus
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1284635 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Confirmed]
<elfy> yea - can see that 
<brainwash_> so the arrow is filtered in your browser?
<elfy> filtered?
<brainwash_> well, triangle pointing east
<brainwash_> it's missing in your browser, or?
<elfy> no triangle - I see for instance ibus>>Bugs>>blah
<elfy> hover over the >> and nothing :) hover over ibus or Bugs and it's selectable
<brainwash_> =S
<brainwash_> no clue
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/299153 http://imagebin.org/299154
<elfy> :)
<brainwash_> not there
<brainwash_> the yellow line
<elfy> oooh 
<brainwash_> :D
<elfy> I see that now lol
<brainwash_> the little triangle
<elfy> yep - ok got it :)
<brainwash_> but I already changed it some minutes ago :P
<elfy> yea I saw that :)
<elfy> added it to the agenda 
<elfy> brainwash_: what I'm unsure of is whether we had ibus and everything was fine and then we got it in notification area 
<elfy> all I know is I remember it going wrong when it showed up :)
<knome> brainwash_, you at all familiar with ristretto?
<knome> bug 1270894 sounds like just a redraw in the sidebar might be good
<ubottu> bug 1270894 in ristretto (Ubuntu) "Sorting by date or name not working properly in thumbnail bar" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270894
<knome> the bug is nasty because when you scroll after changing the sort more (== advance to next image), the next image is shown correctly in the main area, but the sidebar has a wrong image highlighted
<ochosi> sergio-br2: hey!
<sergio-br2> hey! hello
<ochosi> saw you're working on some stuff again :)
<sergio-br2> yeah
<sergio-br2> a little :)
<ochosi> the file-roller icon is really not a prime concern of mine
<ochosi> but i think it's just too much work if the icon is going to be more or less the same
<ochosi> i talked to jimmac today about how they're maintaining the gnome-icon-theme
<ochosi> it's a really interesting system
<ochosi> they have all icons from one app in one file
<ochosi> and then a script cuts them apart and puts them in the right place
<ochosi> i think it'd be pretty neat, cause you always see the sizes next to each other
<ochosi> only problem is migrating there
<sergio-br2> is it possible do this with svg? or it's other type of file?
<ochosi> it's all svg
<ochosi> but i have to look into it a bit more before i can tell whether we can do it
<sergio-br2> inside a tar or like that?
<sergio-br2> ah, ok
<sergio-br2> interesting
<ochosi> it's one svg per icon-type
<ochosi> e.g. one svg for all sizes of web-browser.svg
<ochosi> and then the script chops them apart and puts them into the correct place as png
<sergio-br2> are they in github?
<ochosi> yeah
<sergio-br2> found it
<ochosi> also need to clone it
<ochosi> haven't had time yet
<bluesabre> brainwash_, Unit193: is there an existing bug for xscreensaver still being installed in trusty?
<brainwash> bluesabre: bug 1291019
<ubottu> bug 1291019 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "xflock4 still uses xscreensaver by default" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291019
<brainwash> 2 issues, 1 report
<bluesabre> fair enough
<bluesabre> suppose I can try to fix both at once
<sergio-br2> dowloaded it, very interesting ochosi
<ochosi> sergio-br2: yeah, i think it'd make maintenance a lot easier
<ochosi> but we have to see whether we can get a hold of the migration script
<ochosi> cause converting elementary-xfce to this format by hand would take ages...
<bluesabre> time to make light-locker #1 :)
<Unit193> Eh. :/
<ochosi> yeah
<brainwash> bluesabre: but calling light-locker-command also launches it, so I'm not sure if we should change the order
<Unit193> ^
<bluesabre> going to change it to light-locker-command, xscreensaver, gnome-screensaver
<bluesabre> that should make it work more as expected, even with alternative environments
<Unit193> bluesabre: See above, please.
<brainwash> sergio-br2: I've uploaded a patched version of xfce4-settings to https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
<bluesabre> brainwash: what do you mean by that?
<brainwash> sergio-br2: it "should" fix bug 1260341
<ubottu> bug 1260341 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Tapping lower-right corner of touchpad causes a right-click" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260341
<sergio-br2> great
<sergio-br2> need help to test?
<brainwash> sergio-br2: please test, you might need to toggle tap to click once, so the new settings take effect
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> is it in repo?
<brainwash> in my PPA
<brainwash> bluesabre: I meant that if you run light-locker-command, it will start the light-locker process and use it to lock the screen
<ochosi> does xscreensaver do the same?
<bluesabre> ok... is that somehow a problem?
<ochosi> (i personally think it's desirable that it starts the process btw)
<brainwash> not sure, if it's a serious problem
<Unit193> xscreensaver-command -lock
<Unit193> xscreensaver-command: no screensaver is running on display :0.0
<Unit193> So, xscreensaver first.
<brainwash> xubuntu user A prefers xscreensaver and enabled the autostart launcher, but xflock4 will call light-locker
<Unit193> brainwash: Thanks for pointing this out, I was unaware ll did this.
<bluesabre> so, clicking the "lock screen" button should do nothing if the daemon is, for some reason, not running?
<bluesabre> I prefer gnome and light-locker's aggressive, "if somebody tells me to lock, I am going to do it"
<ochosi> yeah, i mean if ppl really wanna stick to xscreensaver they should uninstall light-locker anyway
<ochosi> it's either: break light-locker if xscreensaver is installed as well
<ochosi> or: break xscreensaver if light-locker is installed as well
<Unit193> bluesabre: Perhaps, but then xscreensaver should be tried first, or else you may easily get stuck with light-locker (which was disabled), and xscreensaver running, and double locking.
<ochosi> depending on whatever you put first in xflock
<Unit193> Not precisely, if xscreensaver isn't running, it'll move on to light-locker.
<brainwash> exactly
<brainwash> the user can disable xscreensaver easily
<brainwash> startup apps
<ochosi> brainwash: the same is true for light-locker
<Unit193> Whereas lightlocker will just launch, later after unlocking and walking away, the computer now will lock twice.
<Unit193> ochosi: Clearly not.
<ochosi> Unit193: there's a simple settings dialog for it, i don't know what else you'd want
<ochosi> the same is true for xscreensaver
<brainwash> light-locker-command -l launches light-locker
<ochosi> in that sense they're on par
<Unit193> ochosi: But if I disable it there, it won't disable then.
<ochosi> who would have both installed? mostly upgraders i'd say
<Unit193> killall light-locker;killall xscreensaver; light-locker-command -l && xscreensaver-command -l
<sergio-br2> brainwash, even without your ppa, it now works. I'll try after, without virtualbox
<brainwash> sergio-br2: ok, I'll wait for your test results then
<Unit193> brainwash: hoho!  It's not quite as terrible as it sounds, light-locker-command -l doesn't seem to launch light-locker, just lock.
<bluesabre> "lock"
<ochosi> oh great, so brainwash has been bullshitting us again ;)
<knome> oops.
<bluesabre> goes to vt8, with session unprotected if light-locker is not running
<Unit193> ochosi: No, he's still right, but just not terrible.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Right.
<bluesabre> ugh
<Unit193> :D
<brainwash> this whole screen locking discussion :D
<Unit193> Indeed.
<bluesabre> ochosi: can you and cavalier try to detect if light-locker is running, and not kick to vt8 if it is not?
<bluesabre> then return error exit(1)
<Unit193> bluesabre, brainwash, ochosi: Therefore, found a security bug before release, I'd call it a plus!
<bluesabre> :)
 * bluesabre will see if its easy to add
<brainwash> Unit193: security bug? the lubuntu guys don't agree
<Unit193> brainwash: Err, not sure if that's right, the actual dev did switch back to xscreensaver. :P
<Unit193> (Saucy.)
<brainwash> impressive
<brainwash> Unit193: had to deal with xmir earlier today and it did not work properly with light-locker
<sergio-br2> ochosi, the git repo from gnome-icon has the png too, did you see?
<Unit193> Meh.  One thing though, must have gotten better since it took you a bit to notice.  Not that it matters in the least, but updated the xmir isos since .6 is out. :P
<Unit193> brainwash: Did you see my chat with Mirv?
<brainwash> about the conf file?
<Unit193> And it being reverted on upgrade, yeah.
<brainwash> xmir does indeed work better now, but I've noticed some strange screen flickering too
<brainwash> so I was like "go away xmir!"
<Unit193> Oooooh!  Can you try something for me with that? :D
<brainwash> you are looking for test results?
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> http://sigma.unit193.net/configs/conkyrc_xmir
<brainwash> you want me to test the shell command?
<Unit193> Well, more the conky output, should be quite clear.
<brainwash> it will take some time until I can give you some feedback
<brainwash> test system is currently being abused for "linux" gaming
<Unit193> Hah, nice.  (Also, the idea is displaying red and text for no mir, green and text for xmir.)
<brainwash> I like the idea
<ochosi> bluesabre: will have to check how or gnome-screensaver handled this
<bluesabre> gnome-screensaver launches itself
<ochosi> yeah, but *how* ;)
<ochosi> i didn't consciously bump that part out
<bluesabre> good question
<bluesabre> the lazy solution, use a singleton
<bluesabre> thats probably how they do it :)
<ochosi> a singleton?
<bluesabre> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singleton_pattern
<ochosi> oh meh, lotsa reading
 * ochosi goes back to snacking
<Unit193> Snack, food, good plan.
 * Unit193 ->
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> ugh, attempting to do this without boost looks like a beast
<ochosi> i don't seem to understand what you're saying well tonight :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> short version, I'd much rather do this in python
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> haha
<brainwash> Unit193: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/xmir.php
<brainwash> and red when it's not running
<ochosi> so where do you have this label?
<Unit193> Just how it should be. :D
<brainwash> ochosi: on the desktop
<ochosi> is it that hard to tell initially whether XMir is running?
<ochosi> (it lead to such disturbing behavior here last time i tried that i'm sure i'd notice)
<brainwash> notice visually?
<ochosi> two cursors, laaaaags, this sort of stuff
<brainwash> not anymore
<ochosi> also with nvidia propr drivers?
<brainwash> but there is some screen flickering
<brainwash> only KMS drivers are supported
<ochosi> hmyeah, nouveau doesn't work well for me
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-14
<Unit193> fglrx is the only thing I find usable on the netbook (which doesn't work with 3.13 kernels...)
<brainwash> nouveau is/was also known to cause problems with gtk-greeter
<ochosi> yeah, but we fixed them to a degree where they don't pose a security threat anymore
<ochosi> not much more we can do
<brainwash> should be fine then
<ochosi> yeah, to the worst ppl will see a garbled background i think
<ochosi> wasn't able to reproduce that though
<ochosi> it worked for me after our last fix
<brainwash> I've encountered the "2 empty windows" issue today and also the temporary garbled background
<slickymaster> forestpiskie: at your disposal for review <-- https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/ubuntu-manual-tests/+merge/210940
<jjfrv8> hey, slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hey jjfrv8 
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: you end up doing all the work yestrday
<slickymaster> s/yestrday/yesterday
<jjfrv8> not yesterday. did you see my notes when I finished last night?
<slickymaster> no. did you leave them here?
<slickymaster> yeah and you're right, it wasn't yesterday
<jjfrv8> yup. I only managed to finish chapters 11 & 12 last night (yesterday morning, your time)
<slickymaster> silly slickymaster
<jjfrv8> but just now I finished the rest of the chapters
<jjfrv8> haven't pushed them yet though
<slickymaster> hmm going to take a look at the backlog
<slickymaster> so everything it's pretty much done
<slickymaster> great effort jjfrv8, thanks for that
<jjfrv8> chs. 11 & 12 were the two that had to have refs to xscreensaver removed. all of the other just had to have settings manager entities updated.
<slickymaster> yes
<jjfrv8> so yeah, if knome approves, we should be pretty much done
<slickymaster> I'm assuming that the reference to gThumb is also already removed, right?
<jjfrv8> affirmative, knome had done that a while ago
<slickymaster> ok, we're in a good spot waiting relaxed for dosc-freeze
<slickymaster> *doc-freeze
<jjfrv8> think so 
<slickymaster> and it's been a rewarding cycle, documentation wise
<slickymaster> at least a productive one
<jjfrv8> agree
<jjfrv8> I'm going to go back through all the pages just to see if I overlooked anything or introduced any typos. Any other sets of eyes would also be beneficial.
<knome> jjfrv8, run a test build locally to see if there is any validation errors
<knome> unless you are on precise... :)
<jjfrv8> afraid so
<knome> i'll run that anyway with the merge proposal before merging
<jjfrv8>  and I never pulled the version of coreutils from saucy
<slickymaster> I was doing that :P
<slickymaster> hey knome 
<ochosi> micahg: reminder about xubuntu-default-settings merge-requests
<slickymaster> btw knome what ever happened to your start page revision
<knome> slickymaster, it's in main.
<slickymaster> it seems to be in same kind of oblivion
<knome> eg. lp:xubuntu-docs
<slickymaster> oh
<slickymaster> I want to pull it
<knome> i got to go to bed.
<knome> see you tomorrow :)
<micahg> ochosi: yep, will try to take a look tonight
<jjfrv8> night, knome 
<slickymaster> nighty knome 
<slickymaster> to for me to go
<slickymaster> cy guys tomorrow
<jjfrv8> night, slickymaster 
<ochosi> micahg: thanks
<slickymasterWork> knome: you around?
<slickymasterWork> knome: regarding your rewriting of the start page of the -docs, I have two suggestions:
<slickymasterWork> knome: 1) Reword <p>The <a href="file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/index.html">Official Documentation</a> provides documentation to the most common issues with Xubuntu.</p> to <p>The <a href="file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/index.html">Official Documentation</a> not only provides documentation to the most common issues with Xubuntu, but also helpful tips, tricks, and configuration suggestions.</p>
<slickymasterWork> knome: 2) Reword <p>When you are seeking for help, please note that most of the general Ubuntu help also applies to Xubuntu.</p> to <p>When seeking for help, please note that most of the general Ubuntu help also applies to Xubuntu.</p>
<knome> slickymasterWork, i don't like the "not only" -structure on the first sentence, but it would be okay to add that information as another sentence or so
<knome> slickymasterWork, otherwise, sounds good
<slickymasterWork> knome: the idea would be to give a broader connotation, regarding the "not only"
<knome> sure.
<slickymasterWork> to the -docs, that is
<knome> could be "...issues with Xubuntu. It also provides helpful..."
<slickymasterWork> yes
<slickymasterWork> knome: we're still maintaining the ubiquity sprint later on, right?
<knome> yep
<knome> we can talk about other issues as well though
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll leave you wit those suggestions to the start page in the meanwhile :P
<slickymasterWork> s/wit/with
<knome> sure
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1291914
<ubottu> bug 1291914 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Whisker menu "hides" About Xfce and Contribute to Xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291914
<brainwash> any thoughts?
<knome> that's not actually a bug
<knome> we were going to drop those anyway
<brainwash> ok
<knome> but i guess we should drop the .desktop files
<brainwash> no alternative solution to still promote "contribute to xubuntu"?
<brainwash> to make user aware of it
<brainwash> the user
<knome> brainwash, it's mentioned on the new documentation startpage
<brainwash> ok, that's fine then
<knome> indeed
<slickymasterWork> knome: don't know if you saw it already, but yesterday I added something to http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404DocCallTranslators
<knome> i didn't
<knome> oh, right
<knome> too close to the color :P
<knome> i think the instructions we link to is a bit "ugh"
<knome> i mean,
<knome> it's not really *that* important for our docs
<knome> (all of it)
<knome> of course it's nice to have guidelines and have contributors follow them
<knome> but it's a mostly separate entity
<knome> (the docs)
<knome> and as long as it's coherent with itself...
<knome> but i don't know, it's a good question to discuss
<knome> because i do think there might be some balancing with that
<knome> too much guidelines -> really hard to get started
<knome> too little guidelines -> bad translations
<slickymasterWork> I see what you mean
<knome> i guess we should do another call in the local teams
<slickymasterWork> it's a trick balance
<slickymasterWork> *trciky
<knome> we could look which languages we ship by default
<knome> then ask at least *those* language teams to think about translating the docs
<knome> to take a first step towards more translations
<slickymasterWork> presently, we're just shipping 3 languages 
<knome> i meant langpacks
<slickymasterWork> yes, I saw that after typing it
<slickymasterWork> my bad
<knome> iirc/aiui, we're shipping around 10 maybe
<slickymasterWork> honestly, don't know
<knome> i guess one of the criteria for including a langpack could be "has fully translated documentation"
<slickymasterWork> as we're speaking about translations, what about the slideshow?
<knome> i mean, now that we have a 100% finnish translation, it's kind of odd that we don't ship the finnish *langpack*
<knome> the slideshow is translatable
<knome> always been
<knome> and yeah, we probably should note that one can do translations for that as well
<slickymasterWork> cough cough and portuguese -> 100% cough
<knome> yep.
<slickymasterWork> I tried to translated and couldn't
<knome> really?
<slickymasterWork> we spoke about that already
<slickymasterWork> some months ago
<knome> did we?
<slickymasterWork> I'm almost sure of that
<knome> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu/pt/+translate
<slickymasterWork> knome: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
 * slickymasterWork damns knome for always having the right solution
<slickymasterWork> ;)
<knome> :)
<knome> so yeah, you need to translate the ubuntu package
<knome> but since we have a sprint today, i would hold
<knome> we're prone to change strings
<slickymasterWork> I'm going to make at least one change
<slickymasterWork> :P
<knome> haha
<slickymasterWork> suggestion, that is
<knome> well, feel free to translate it all
<knome> but be prepared to retranslate ;)
<slickymasterWork> no rushes, that's something I can make in an hour, so I'll wait
<slickymasterWork> we still have some days before doc-freeze
<knome> yep
<knome> oh btw,
<knome> there are also .po's in the branch
<knome> if you want to translate locally
<slickymasterWork> I'll use the .po file
<slickymasterWork> you were right, doing it locally is way faster
<knome> yep.
<knome> off to go shopping with wife
<knome> bbl
<elfy> knome slickymasterWork "When you are seeking for help" ... When you are looking for help OR When you are seeking help 
<elfy> slickymasterWork: thanks - merged and synced - you had a bunch of bugs attached to it for some reason 
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy
<slickymasterWork> those bugs are attached, even though they're 'Fix Released' status, because I'm using the same branch to all the MP's
<slickymasterWork> thanks elfy 
<ochosi> folks, i've started a post about locking in 14.04, feel free to read through and suggest improvements: http://xubuntu.org/?p=2255&preview=true
<ochosi> i wanna publish it sometime close to the release of 14.04, so there's still plenty of time to polish it
<ochosi> but these are the outlines of what i'd like to have
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: I forgot how we login into the site :P
<slickymasterWork> thnaks
<ochosi> np
<slickymasterWork> s/thnaks/thanks
<ochosi> Unit193: i set it up as a separate project, also to avoid license ambiguities: https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-community-artwork
<knome> i'm here, and we can pretty much start when everybody else is about
<knome> jjfrv8, ochosi, pleia2, slickymasterWork 
<pleia2> o/
<knome> oi
<pleia2> I forgot the instructions for getting and running the dev slideshow again :)
<knome> heh
<knome> bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> cd ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<pleia2> ty
<knome> np
<knome> as long as you have the right dependencies, the easiest thing to test-run :D
<jjfrv8> o/
<knome> hey jjfrv8 
<jjfrv8> hey
<jjfrv8> going through the slideshow now to refresh my memory
<knome> yep, good
<pleia2> favourites
<pleia2> tsk, we use en_US by default
<knome> :P
<knome> file?
<pleia2> bug?
<knome> no, which file
<pleia2> Keep track of your applications
<pleia2> we can put a picture of my cat in the mugshow file right?
<pleia2> mugshot
<knome> lol, let's discuss that
<knome> i have something done behind the curtains
<knome> ooh ooh! 
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> inconsistent bolding of application names on Ready to go!
<knome> not inconsistent
<knome> just not a straightforward logic
<pleia2> looks inconsistent :)
<knome> if description bold app name else normal
<pleia2> shouldn't it be abiword then?
<pleia2> not Abiword
<knome> huh, no
<knome> why?
<ochosi> o/
 * pleia2 shrugs
<pleia2> see, I don't understand even once it's explained to me :)
<knome> pleia2, bolding is different than case?
<jjfrv8> it's actually spelled AbiWord on the menu and in the docs
<knome> slickymasterWork, slickymaster: ping ping!
<pleia2> knome: my point is that it looks goofy, and we won't be sitting next to users explaining the rationale
<ochosi> knome: frankly, i'd go for all bold or none, the logic may be sound, but for the last slide it doesn't look nice and users prolly wont get it
<ochosi> pleia2: +1
<ochosi> :)
<pleia2> Help & Support
<knome> well,
<pleia2> "Find it by clicking on Help on the main menu."
<knome> <b>Firefox</b>, web browser?
<pleia2> should we tell people "Search" in the main menu?
<ochosi> yeah, why not
<knome> #startmeeting Docs sprint
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Mar 14 17:00:20 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> #topic Ubiquity slideshow
<knome> i want to go through three steps:
<pleia2> oh, I thought we were already doing this :)
<knome> 1) check if we have all the *slides* we want, or we want to extend
<knome> 2) check if the artwork is suitable, the layouts work etc.
<knome> 3) review the content on the current slides thoroughly (which we were already doing)
<knome> #subtopic Review slides
<knome> so... feedback?
<knome> do we want a slide on desktop (theme) customizing?
 * ochosi pulls the last rev
<pleia2> I think the panel one is sufficient
<pleia2> customizing is too complicated for a slide
<ochosi> i think knome was thinking "colorizing"
<ochosi> which is mostly what "gtk-theme-config" does
<knome> what about highlighting the possibility to do that, and then pointing to the docs?
<ochosi> (despite itsname)
<knome> gtk-theme-config and the other appearance settings, yeah
<knome> 18:48  knome: bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> 18:48  knome: cd ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> 18:48  knome: ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<knome> ochosi, ^
<ochosi> ty
 * ochosi just came home, so still a bit lagging behind
<jjfrv8> right now there's some overlap between Keep track... and Make the desktop... maybe move all the menu stuff to one slide and do desktop theme on the other?
<knome> just pushed rev601
<knome> jjfrv8, sounds good to me
<knome> others agree?
<ochosi> (still branching...)
<slickymasterWork> knome: pong
<knome> slickymasterWork, you just stepped into a sprint ;)
<knome> pleia2, what do you think?
<slickymasterWork> sorry, had two juggle a few issues in between
<slickymasterWork> s/two/to
<pleia2> I liked having them separate, they felt like different things to me
<knome> the other argument for merging is that then the "make the..." could have some cool color artwork.
<knome> and the "keep track..." could lose the biiiiig menu shot.
<pleia2> this menu is new this release, I like having it
<knome> though the shot is not current
<pleia2> maybe drop it next release, but I don't want it to be a surprise to people when they load up their desktop (still might be, but we try)
<knome> so we should take a new shot
<pleia2> yeah
<slickymasterWork> regarding the xubuntu desktop slide (the 2nd one), don't you think it's a bit heavy
<slickymasterWork> ?
<knome> so, are you still against putting the menulibre stuff there?
<knome> slickymasterWork, we could try to add more padding
<slickymasterWork> couldn't some of the text be cutted?
<slickymasterWork> I mean truncated 
<slickymasterWork> that all explanation about the top panel is in the docs anyway and IMO it seems that it's a bit too much in that slide
<slickymasterWork> and doesn't actually works either informatively or aesthetically 
<knome> not sure
<knome> again, what do others thing?
<knome> *think
<jjfrv8> I kind of agree with slickymasterWork but I don't think it's terrible as is
 * ochosi is still branching..
<jjfrv8> might just need some dressing up, like with bullets or something
<slickymasterWork> well I wouldn't adjectivate it as terrible, but somehow it doesn't seem to fit with the other slides
 * slickymasterWork is also still branching rev601
<jjfrv8> adjectivate :)
<slickymasterWork> jjfrv8: bad choice of word or bad english altogether?
<jjfrv8> neither, I liked it
<ochosi> what's the difference between adjectivate and adjectify?
<pleia2> I think they're both made up words
<pleia2> :)
<ochosi> ;>
<knome> pleia2, that's not a difference, that's a similarity
<slickymasterWork> pleia2: do you disapprove the wording in the wiskher slide?
<knome> pushed rev602
<knome> pull and check the desktop slide :)
<slickymasterWork> or am I getting you wrong?
 * slickymasterWork hasn't yet finished branching rev601 :P
 * slickymasterWork is at work with a lousy bandwith
<knome> heh
<ochosi> same here :(
<slickymasterWork> Ctrl+C and staring all over again :P
<slickymasterWork> s/staring/starting
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: haha, same here
<knome> boo :)
<knome> you should have done this in advance...
 * slickymasterWork and ochosi will have their revenge knome 
<knome> while we are at it, is there any other slides that we'd like to add in addition to the customization slide?
<knome> pleia2, the same argument goes for gtk-theme-config than the menu: it's new for this cycle
<pleia2> yeah, but less obvious
<knome> and probably the poster child of the customizability we always tell xubuntu is full of
<jjfrv8> knome, I'm still getting 601
<knome> it would be nice to tell the users "here's a cool thing you can do after installing"
<knome> jjfrv8, finish it, updating to the latest rev shouldn't take too long from that
<slickymasterWork> we'll have to draw a line somewhere
<jjfrv8> ? I pulled from scratch
<slickymasterWork> I mean this cycle is full of new stuff and it can't all be ported into the slideshow
<knome> jjfrv8, 'bzr pull' gets the latest revisions, no need to branch every time
<jjfrv8> oh
<elfy> slickymasterWork: I unlinked them ... 
<knome> slickymasterWork, no, but i really think we *should* include the desktop looks customizability
<knome> i always thought we'd add a slide for that
<slickymasterWork> agree with you on that knome 
<slickymasterWork> unlinked what elfy ?
<knome> so i'm not proposing to add everything that's new
<knome> just the highlights and cool things
<elfy> slickymasterWork: bugs that were nothing to do with the MP
<jjfrv8> "no revisions or tags to pull"
<knome> jjfrv8, hmm..
<knome> oops
<knome> i only committed
<knome> pushing now.
<knome> sorry
<slickymasterWork> pleia2: in the beginning of the sprint you said something about the favorites. where you referring to the wisker slide?
<knome> done
<slickymasterWork> oh, thanks for that elfy 
<knome> slickymasterWork, just favorites vs. favourites
<ochosi> weee finished
<slickymasterWork> oh, ok
<knome> ochosi, now pull again to get 602
<knome> should be quick
<knome> ...relatively
<ochosi> yup done
<slickymasterWork> pulling
<ochosi> ok, so what were we talking about? :D
<knome> desktop slide
<jjfrv8> knome, good idea with the alignment
<pleia2> slickymasterWork: oh sorry, I was wondering what you were asking about, yeah what knome said :)
<knome> i also tweaked the texts a bit
<knome> so are shorter now
 * slickymasterWork is now watching rev602
<knome> jjfrv8, i think you might have 601 if you have right-aligned text :)
<jjfrv8> no, it's 602.
<knome> ok, good
<knome> does it have right-aligned text? :)
<jjfrv8> no, left-aligned
<knome> ok good
<knome> the main thing is that it should have three columns
<jjfrv8> I meant how the text lined up with the parts of the panel being described
<knome> yep
<knome> we might want to change the last paragraph now
<knome> "Finally, ..." is a weird start now
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether the three areas should have a slight separator in between
<knome> "If you don't like this panel layout for a reason or another, ...."
<ochosi> but maybe it's over the top
<ochosi> yeah, s/Finally//
<ochosi> i like the panel slide generally
<slickymasterWork> knome: I know you wanted to change this slide layout, but I do you really think that three different tones of blue work?
 * knome shrugs
<knome> ochosi?
<ochosi> it might be a little over the top, as it's the most common layout ever, but the idea makes sense to me as we changed the layout
<slickymasterWork> right now it would be my only objection
<ochosi> there will be the wallpaper in between
<ochosi> below the three sections of text
<ochosi> right knome?
<knome> well,
<knome> in a way or other, that was the idea
<knome> but i'm not sure how doable it is with this small space
<ochosi> depends on your wallpaper ;)
<slickymasterWork> the left alignment of the text is a good improvement IMO  
<slickymasterWork> makes the slide somewhat more 'open'
<knome> pushed rev603
<slickymasterWork> you're killing me knome :P
<knome> :P
<knome> slickymasterWork, use 'bzr pull'
<slickymasterWork> that's what I've been doing
<knome> heh
<ochosi> mhm, not bad
<ochosi> btw, i think the contrast between the xubuntu-logo and the bg color is a little low on the first slide
<knome> ochosi, yep, noted that
<slickymasterWork> sorry for this guys, but definitely I don't like those three blue stripes
<knome> slickymasterWork, propose something?
<ochosi> the blue at the bottom is different from the one above, right?
<knome> no
<slickymasterWork> I would go for just two tones of blue
<ochosi> ah, ok, that was a optical illusion then
<knome> ochosi, the bg is a gradient
<knome> and the whiter part is just overlay on that part
<slickymasterWork> that third tone only appears in that slide, and some how it feels awkward
<ochosi> knome: yup, that explains it
<slickymasterWork> knome: has a decision been made about the image to add to the 'Make the desktop your own' slide?
<knome> no
<knome> feel free to discuss that as i work on an updated desktop slide looks
<slickymasterWork> but it's going to have one?
<ochosi> i guess something like this, but less ugly, could work :) http://cdn.xfce.org/frontpage/slider-xfwm4.jpg
<slickymasterWork> I know that you're not a big fan on having to much images on the all slideshow, but that leaves that slide with a huge blank space, almost half of it
<ochosi> e.g. a pink version of greybird
<knome> ochosi, well, only if we add the color stuff to that slide :)
<slickymasterWork> I'm sure pleia2 would agree with that pink version ;)
<ochosi> yeah, well it would be very illustrative ;)
<knome> i'm all for that
<pleia2> and anti-aliased fonts
<knome> does somebody want to draft the text for that?
<ochosi> me too
<slickymasterWork> knome: the text for what?
<knome> for the color part
<knome> and also,
<knome> please discuss if we can get rid of the icons
<knome> and/or move the menu text to the previous slide
<knome> because we will need more space
<jjfrv8> I don't know, I might be having second thoughts about moving the menulibre text to the previous slide
<jjfrv8> maybe leave it on that slide and add another slide for the desktop theme thing
<knome> that works as well from my POV
<knome> i just pushed rev604
<knome> check the desktop slide :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, you'll like it more
<slickymasterWork> I'm inclined to jjfrv8's opinion tbh
 * slickymasterWork is still pulling it :P
<jjfrv8> ooh, yeah
 * slickymasterWork congratulates knome 
<knome> ok, so if we add another slide
<knome> can we name *that* "Make the desktop your own"
<jjfrv8> yup
<slickymasterWork> yes, it's complete coherent with the rest of the slides
<knome> and the current one something like "Your computer, your data"
<knome> (not that, but you get the idea)
<jjfrv8> something like that, yeah
 * slickymasterWork agrees
<ochosi> mm, also like it
<knome> pushed rev605
<slickymasterWork> what abot "Put your personal label in your computer"?
<slickymasterWork> s/abot7about
<knome> slickymasterWork, sounds like a long title :)
<knome> and might be a problem with translations
<slickymasterWork> ok
<knome> ochosi, want to draft the text for the theme customizing slide?
<knome> who wants to take a new screenshot of the whiskermenu?
<slickymasterWork> I can do it
<knome> ochosi, just to make sure, when do the final settings land for whiskermenu, or did they land already?
<slickymasterWork> with the default favorites?
<knome> ok, so any ideas what to put in the "personalize" slide?
<knome> as an image, that is
<knome> slickymasterWork, yep, all defaults
<jjfrv8> don't we want one of mugshot at least?
<slickymasterWork> that's was what I was going to ask?
<Unit193> ochosi: Ah, good plan.
<knome> ok, then take a shot of Mugshot with some fake, generic data maybe?
<knome> i would think that's enough for the slide
<slickymasterWork> knome: check your email
<jjfrv8> I had one once when there were some default images for mugshot. whatever happened to them?
<knome> slickymasterWork, so no favorites?
<slickymasterWork> did I take the wrong one :P
<slickymasterWork> my bad
<knome> hehe
<slickymasterWork> give a sec
<knome> also, wondering about slickymaster
<knome> maybe use "Xubuntu User" :P
<knome> (yeah i know that involves creating a new user)
<slickymasterWork> I'm doin' it
<knome> thanks
<ochosi> sry, was afk
<elfy> so - how's it going - anything I can do to help?
<brainwash> luckily creating a new user via users-admin won't result in a segfault anymore :D
<ochosi> whiskermenu settings will land when micahg merges them
<knome> are we now happy with the slides we have?
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: :) 
<knome> or do we want to add new ones?
<elfy> ochosi: I had a quick look at the draft - you want me to look at the wording?
<slickymasterWork> I haven't had a chance to see your last rev knome 
<slickymasterWork> :P
<ochosi> elfy: why not, also, if you think that some aspect is missing, feel free to point it out
<elfy> okeydoke
<knome> slickymasterWork, basically just added a new empty slide for "customize"
<slickymasterWork> and changed the tittle of the previously "Make the desktop your own" slide
<knome> yep
<slickymasterWork> are we gooing with the personalize...?
<knome> that's a different question
<knome> what i'm asking now if we are happy with the slides composition
<knome> or if we want more/less slides
<slickymasterWork> I'm happy
<ochosi> knome: i guess the text will depend on what exactly we put on the "make the desktop..." slide
<knome> ochosi, you mean the "personalize" ?
<knome> the current slides stay as they are
<elfy> it's personalise ... ;)
<knome> the new slide is anything you want to mention
<knome> elfy, not in en_US
<elfy> :p
<knome> so, eh, i'll expect everybody is happy with the slides
<ochosi> knome: elfy is having trouble with his keyboard-layout, you know ;D
<knome> #subtopic Review artwork
<knome> are we okay with the first slide?
<knome> artwork-wise, remember
<knome> or do we want a new image?
<slickymasterWork> it's good for me
<knome> pleia2, are you sleeping?
<ochosi> apart from the contrast issue on the logo, yep
<pleia2> knome: working
<knome> ok, desktop slide
<jjfrv8> +1
<ochosi> +1
<knome> the panel has a dragger
<knome> or whatever that is called
<knome> do we have it in the final release?
<ochosi> dragger?
<knome> from which you can move the panel
<knome> or then it's just a visible separator
<knome> handle...
<knome> right to the logo
<ochosi> it's just the handle from the windowlist
<jjfrv8> Don't think it's unlocked by default
<slickymasterWork> +1
<ochosi> we'll have that by default
<knome> okay
<slickymasterWork> knome: sent
<knome> so the image is okay?
<knome> slickymasterWork, thanks
<knome> or do we want another open app
<knome> that doesn't have focus
<knome> might get a bit cluttered
<ochosi> yeah
<jjfrv8> that might go better with the middle part text thing
<ochosi> i think at that width it's ok
<jjfrv8> but it's okay as is
<knome> ok, let's keepit
<knome> whiskermenu slide
<knome> slickymasterWork just sent me a new shot
<knome> so that's good
<knome> personalize
<knome> so, a mugshot shot?
<slickymasterWork> I was doing that
<knome> good, so it's in order
<knome> do we wish to keep the icons?
<knome> and, is menulibre "Main menu" ?
<jjfrv8> if we do, I think we should show the path
<knome> or something else
<jjfrv8> "Menu Editor"
<ochosi> it's "Menu Editor"
<ochosi> "Main Menu" == alacarte
<knome> ok
<knome> good to get that sorted out then ;)
<knome> so we ok to drop the paths back?
<jjfrv8> +1
<slickymasterWork> knome: in the mugshot screenshot, do you want the data fields filled?
<ochosi> "drop paths back"?
<knome> ochosi, we used to have full app paths
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi>  i know
<knome> ochosi, now we don't, we only have the app icon and app name
<ochosi> yup, that's ok i think
<knome> slickymasterWork, yeah, use firstname Xubuntu lastname User 
<knome> no need to fill everything
<knome> it can be a "work in progress"
<knome> ok, so the new "Make the desktop your own"
<ochosi> so "drop back" = "drop"?
<knome> ochosi, "drop back" = "drop back in place"
<slickymasterWork> any images in the Image button?
<jjfrv8> ochosi, did mugshot lose the "Select from stock" option for the image?
<ochosi> knome: so you wanna re-add the paths?
<knome> slickymasterWork, better to leave without
<knome> ochosi, i'm asking if we should do that for that slide, yeah
<ochosi> jjfrv8: no, still has it here
<ochosi> knome: ah, yeah, maybe
<knome> the other option is:
<ochosi> knome: cause they're not in the toplevel menu
<knome> add a new paragraph that says "You can find both of these tools in the Settings Manager"
<knome> or sth
<knome> but i think i'd rather keep the icons
<knome> another option is
<knome> add mugshot to favorites
<knome> so any new user is given the possibility to fill in the details ASAP
<ochosi> nope
<knome> haha
<knome> okay
<knome> i'll just add the paths back
<ochosi> the thing is that stuff from the settings-manager can't be shown in whisker easily
<knome> right
<ochosi> same is true for the appmenu
<ochosi> and appfinder
<slickymasterWork> sent knome 
<knome> slickymasterWork, thanks
<knome> ok, the "MAKE THE DESKTOP..." slide
<ochosi> i talked to gottcode about adding that to whiskermenu though
<knome> who wants to take care of the slide text, shot?
<knome> ochosi, could you take care of the shot?
<ochosi> so it might be possible in the near future, most likely not in 14.04 though
<ochosi> knome: yeah, what should that one show?
<knome> ochosi, also, would you draft the text if i asked nicely?
<knome> well, depends on the text.. :>
<knome> i guess mention the ability to change theme colors
<ochosi> yeah, possibly not tonight, but generally speaking, okayish
<knome> and generally speak about things found in the settings manager
<knome> regarding customizing looks
<ochosi> that sounds like a lot
<knome> it's kind of your 15 minutes in the fame :P
<knome> so you can select what to talk about
<knome> what are the looks-customizability highlights for xubuntu (14.04) ?
<knome> write about that.
<knome> then take a screenshot that goes with that content
<knome> pink greybird sounds good to me
<knome> (pink resonates well with the blue)
<slickymasterWork> we'er making pleia2's day
<slickymasterWork> *we're
<knome> next!
<knome> "Ready to go!" -slide
<knome> artwork-wise, we happy?
<knome> bolding looks more logical now
<ochosi> hmkay, will try
<knome> ochosi, feel free to ask for help if you need some
<ochosi> the pink is actually a lot more subtle than you'd think
<knome> ochosi, yep.
<knome> ochosi, make it fuchsia ;)
<jjfrv8> not artwork, but I don't like the "for your pleasure" phrase. But I can't think of an alternative that's succinct.
<slickymasterWork> without saying that it could be changed, nevertheless it's the poor parent of them all, in visual terms
<knome> jjfrv8, let's talk about content nitpicking after the artwork review ;)
<jjfrv8> k
<knome> slickymasterWork, yeah, but it's ought to be a boring slide ;)
<ochosi> knome: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-03-14-193547.php
<ochosi> what's the hex-value of fuchsia?
<slickymasterWork> can't the font in the icons descriptions be bigger? (but not too big)
<knome> ochosi, #ff00ff
<slickymasterWork> knome: ^^
<slickymasterWork> what I asked
<ochosi> OUCH
<knome> ochosi, you said pink is too subtle!
<slickymasterWork> someone dial 991 for ochosi 
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-03-14-193753.php
<ochosi> it's not the pink, it's the change in selected-bg-color that is subtle
<knome> those shots look good.
<ochosi> yeah, i think those two could work
<knome> definitely
<ochosi> not sure i can highlight more than one app/option to customize in the screenshots
<knome> nah, that's fine IMO
<knome> slickymasterWork, checkout rev607
<knome> others, same
<knome> app icon text is not slightly bigger
<jjfrv8> brb
<slickymasterWork> while pulling it, what you guys think of "Your imprint in your computer" instead of "Personalize your computer"?
<ochosi> "imprint" sounds a bit cumbersome
<slickymasterWork> yes, knome. It's better
<slickymasterWork> it's not so monotonous
<knome> ok, so happy with the artwork on that slide now?
<ochosi> darn, i gotta go... :/
<slickymasterWork> I am
<knome> ochosi, can you spare 5mins?
<knome> "Help & Support" slide
<knome> do we want any artwork there?
<ochosi> yeah, it's a bit too much text maybe
<knome> proposals?
<slickymasterWork> agree
<ochosi> adding a single icon to the "live support" bubble could be enough
<knome> not the "new thing"
<knome> okay
<knome> so a blue question bubble?
<knome> or something else
<knome> a speech bubble?
<ochosi> either something that reflects "live" or just use the help (?) icon from the icon theme
<knome> ochosi, propose me something before monday
<slickymasterWork> I would go for the help icon theme
<ochosi> hm, not sure, alredady two huge bubbles on the next slide
<knome> ochosi, well that's the next question...
<knome> "Thanks" slide
<knome> want to change the art?
<slickymasterWork> I think that's a good one
<ochosi> yeah, i'm not a huge fan
<slickymasterWork> wouldn't touch it
<knome> it's getting a bit old.
<slickymasterWork> I like it
<ochosi> but my problem is i'm away until monday
<knome> ochosi, oh right.
<knome> well on monday then
<ochosi> so i cant really get anything done until then
<knome> or latest tuesday
<knome> we need to get this in before thu
<knome> and since we don't have uploaders in the team, i can't expect others to upload at the last minute :)
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> maybe we should look at that on monday with ochosi
<ochosi> well i'll try to take care of my slide
<knome> i'll try to come up with something during the weekend
<ochosi> add the help-icon meanwhile to the pen-ultimate slide
<knome> so to say, try to have a proposal we can agree on
<ochosi> so we have it there as fallback
<ochosi> hah
<ochosi> fun thing to say
<ochosi> anyhoo, seeya
<knome> well yeah...
<knome> see you and have fun! :)
<ochosi> will do :)
<ochosi> u2
<slickymasterWork> cy ochosi 
<knome> ok, so the artwork is coming along
<knome> #subtopic Content review
<slickymasterWork> knome: 'Personalize your computer' -> 'Sign your computer'
<knome> sounds like signing up :/
<knome> or signing off
<slickymasterWork> meh
<knome> shall we do a quick review
<knome> 1) Welcome to Xubuntu
<knome> to me, that slide is a bit dry
<knome> and has some wonky text
<knome> "the desktop will look much the same"
<knome> -much ?
<knome> at least...
<knome> or something
<knome> do anybody else find that slide dry?
<knome> it's our first impression!
<slickymasterWork> yeah, that much doesn't make any sense
<knome> i think the sharing part would be best on the last slide
<knome> and said in a different way
<knome> the "if you are" -text could be in a bubble
<knome> and bottom -aligned
<knome> slickymasterWork, want to talk with me about the welcome slide either sat or sun?
<knome> to not waste too much time now
<slickymasterWork> sun
<jjfrv8> back
<slickymasterWork> I'm not sure how my sat is going to be
<knome> sun works
<knome> ok, the desktop slide
<knome> anything we want to change?
<jjfrv8> nah
<slickymasterWork> yes
<slickymasterWork> :P
<knome> (i'm consdering all merge proposals done before Tue, so no need to know exactly now)
<knome> if there is a slight change, just propose it
<slickymasterWork> "... single, multipurpose panel..." -> "... single, multipurpose, panel..."
<knome> if we want to do a big overhaul, then say now ;)
<knome> yeah yeah, do a MP ;)
<knome> "keep track" -slide
<knome> any need to edit the text?
<slickymasterWork> just put multiproposal between comas
<knome> ok ok :P
<slickymasterWork> *multipurpose
<knome> done
<knome> will push that later
<knome> but "keep track"
<knome> anything we want to change?
<slickymasterWork> nopes
<knome> pleia2, as you were interested in this
<slickymasterWork> I like it now (finally)
<knome> do we want to note this is a new feature in 14.04 and that one can revert to the old one?
<slickymasterWork> I wouldn't
<knome> the text looks good to me :)
<jjfrv8> that might be a can of worms, the revert part
<knome> heh
<knome> okay
<knome> let's keep ot
<knome> *it
<knome> "personalize"
<jjfrv8> yeah, text looks okay
<knome> do we want to change the text?
<knome> (apart from david wanting to change the title)
<slickymasterWork> I think we can came up with a better tittle
<knome> yep
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> that's okay for a merge proposal
<jjfrv8> well we say "image of your choice" but screenshot won't have a custom image?
<knome> jjfrv8, no, but it'll show the spot where you can change that ;)
<knome> the documentation goes through that more closely anyway
<slickymasterWork> and that way everyone will know that it's up to them to came up with the image
<jjfrv8> hmm
<knome> jjfrv8, the problem with the custom image is "what to show"
<knome> tbh, the default stock images are ugly...
 * slickymasterWork is now breaking some rules about not smoking at work
<knome> D:
<knome> omg
<jjfrv8> okay, not a biggie
<slickymasterWork> the all text is goof in that slide. jjfrv8 has done a good work on it
<knome> :)
<slickymasterWork> s/goof/good
<knome> hehe
<knome> goofy text, right...
<jjfrv8> :)
<knome> "ready to go"
<jjfrv8> "for your pleasure" -1
<knome> "for your pleasure" -replacement is ok with MP, unless you have an idea now
<knome> in which case i can drop it right in
<slickymasterWork> -1 also
<jjfrv8> nah, still pondering
<knome> yeah, no pleasure using those apps
<knome> i guess that slide is okay
<slickymasterWork> for your convenience 
<slickymasterWork> ?
<knome> yeah
<knome> sounds good
<jjfrv8> !
<knome> jjfrv8, you fine with that?
<jjfrv8> that'll work!
<knome> yep
<knome> will push with next commit
<knome> anything else in that slide?
<jjfrv8> nope
<knome> ok,
<knome> "help" slide
<slickymasterWork> that's a doomed slide :P
<knome> anything in the content for that?
<knome> slickymasterWork, the help one? :P
<slickymasterWork> not the help one
<knome> lol
<knome> slickymasterWork, what do you think is so doomed in the apps one
<slickymasterWork> it's monotonous and lacks some kind of an outstanding spark 
<knome> lol
<knome> be in touch with me if you figure out what that is
<knome> so... the help slide :P
<slickymasterWork> but I agree that there's little to work with
<knome> text okay in that?
<jjfrv8> +1
<slickymasterWork> yes, I think the text is good
<knome> nice.
<knome> what about the thanks slide?
<slickymasterWork> I like the artwork on that one, being old an all
<jjfrv8> I'm good with the slide
<knome> if not else, we need to rethink the contrast
<knome> but i'll think about that
<slickymasterWork> but we're porting the share part from the first one into this one
<knome> yeah
<knome> nothing in *this* needs a change though, so that's fine
<slickymasterWork> agree
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Mar 14 19:08:03 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-03-14-17.00.moin.txt
<knome> huhu
<knome> that was two hours
<knome> plus some. :)
<slickymasterWork> and it's past your dinner time, isn't it
<jjfrv8> time flies
<knome> that happens ;)
<slickymasterWork> so knome do you want to fix an hour for sunday?
<knome> anything works
<knome> it doesn't sound like it's a big task
<knome> and i should be around
<slickymasterWork> I'll be home from 17:00 UTC ->
<knome> (wife is at work, so i'm doomed to be online) :P
<knome> oki
<knome> that sounds good
<slickymasterWork> I still want to catch some waves
<knome> yep, you should
<slickymasterWork> I'll probably be here after dinner, today
<knome> yeah, that might work as well
<knome> i need to run now, but will be back later
<knome> see you! :)
<slickymasterWork> cy knome 
<jjfrv8> thanks, knome. Let me know about the docs MP
<slickymasterWork> jjfrv8: see today's morning backlog. I've proposed a couple of tweaks to knome's start page of the -docs
<jjfrv8> k, saw it but hadn't had a chance to really look at it.
<slickymasterWork> ok, have to go now, will be back later on
<slickymasterWork> cy
<jjfrv8> me too, bye.
<brainwash> ali1234: what do you think.. could xfwm4 only check if a window is resizable (already implemented) and if yes, show the maximize button? basically ignore _NET_WM_ACTION_MAXIMIZE_{HORZ,VERT}
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> all the infrastructure for it is already there
<ali1234> there is a bug report for it too
<brainwash> want to get rid of bug 1177116 :)
<ubottu> bug 1177116 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Xfwm4's 'dialog' window has an unused maximise-button" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177116
<ali1234> feature request*
<ali1234> have a look in frame.c
<ali1234> there is a big function that decides which buttons to draw
<ali1234> just tweak the logic there
<brainwash> yeah, check client.h
<ali1234> it should be easy
<ali1234> but i think there was resistance to fixing it for some reason
<brainwash> why?
<ali1234> i can't remember
<ali1234> i think because some windows ask for no maximize button even though you can actually maximize them
<ali1234> and someone somewhere likes to maximize those windows
<brainwash> right, we need some test cases
<brainwash> the modern wms (or DEs) seem to hide it
<ali1234> gnome doesn't have any maximize buttons at all
<brainwash> openbox is behaves like xfwm4
<brainwash> oh
<brainwash> -is
<ali1234> xfwm has bigger problems anyway
<brainwash> maybe should look at it from another perspective, why do the dialog type windows set the maximize hints?
<ali1234> no idea. you'd have to look through the support libraries
<brainwash> if they also cannot be resized
<ali1234> like libxfce4ui
<ali1234> there's a lot of bugs in those
<brainwash> so it's xfce specific?
<brainwash> should be X
<ali1234> probably not
<ali1234> but so much code gets copy pasted, who knows where it came from?
<brainwash> mmh
<brainwash> maybe mark the report as "wishlist" then?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it doesn't really cause a problem
<brainwash> no, but there is something not working properly under the hood
<ali1234> well, as i said, take a look at frame.c...
<ali1234> the function is crazy
<ali1234> i don't think this is worth trying to fix this late in the cycle
<ali1234> that code is very fragile
<brainwash> I thought of adjusting http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/tree/src/client.h#n216
<brainwash> and if we can fix it, it will go upstream eventually
<ali1234> oh no... noo.... no don't touch those macros
<ali1234> just..... don't
<brainwash> :/
<brainwash> u can't touch this
<ali1234> that doesn't control whether or not the button is drawn anyway
<ali1234> or maybe it does
<brainwash> it's only a check
<brainwash> ofc it does
<ali1234> got a test case then?
<ali1234> what kind of window has a maximize button but can't be maximized?
<brainwash> about dialogs
<brainwash> most of them
<brainwash> and the (x)ubuntu installer :D
<ali1234> but they have no minimize
<brainwash> true
<ali1234> they have a resize border too, even though you can't resize them
<ali1234> so that's the problem
<ali1234> XFWM_FLAG_HAS_RESIZE | XFWM_FLAG_IS_RESIZABLE <- why are there two flags?
<brainwash> no clue
<brainwash> so the dialog windows don't set _NET_WM_ACTION_MINIMIZE
<ali1234> i bet that's related
<brainwash> but they do set _NET_WM_ACTION_MAXIMIZE_{HORZ,VERT}
<ali1234> well, you need to pick through the code and find out how the WM hints map to xfwm flags
<ali1234> it's not always logical... at all
<brainwash> it's an interesting problem
<ali1234> so xfwm actually appears to set those atoms
<brainwash> and we don't even have an upstream report yet
<ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/tree/src/netwm.c#n1170
<ali1234> this stuff is completely nuts
<brainwash> yes, but after the actual check, or?
<ali1234> it's years upon years of hacks
<ali1234> xfwm is setting wm hints so that the next window manager that comes along knows how to deal with the windows left behind
<ali1234> like if you do --replace
<ali1234> so you can't really infer anything from that
<ali1234> this is why people want to replace X11
<brainwash> oh
<ali1234> unfortunately the new thing isn't any better
<brainwash> ok, maybe I'll do some more research, but I've suddenly lost some of my motivation to properly fix this
<ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/tree/src/client.c#n935 is probably your culprit
<ali1234> compare that with latest metacity version, they've probably fixed it since it got copy pasted
<ali1234> ugh... why the pointless negation?
<ali1234> that's not not confusing at all
<brainwash> right, was thinking the same, we need to check what other wms do
<ali1234> that is where HAS_RESIZE comes from
<ali1234> but what about RESIZABLE?
<ali1234> ah... so if a window is below a certain size, it is always "RESIZABLE"
<ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/tree/src/client.c#n1147
<ali1234> but why?
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> looking at the same line
<brainwash> this code is trying to brainwash me
<ali1234> so, xfwm never looks at the value of NET_WM_ACTION_MAXIMIZE_HORZ, it only ever sets it
<ali1234> if CLIENT_CAN_MAXIMIZE_WINDOW (c)
<ali1234> this is where git blame is handy
<ali1234> yeah... this code is from 2004
<brainwash> so it's try & error
<brainwash> until it works like you want it
<ali1234> well more like you fix this and break some other obscure thing
<ali1234> and nobody notices for another 10 years
<ali1234> which is also why it is the way it is
<brainwash> but it can be fixed
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> or maybe not
<ali1234> the EWMH has a lot of corner cases
<ochosi> reminds of a talk by keith p about a thing they broke in X11 and nobody noticed for 5+yrs :)
<ochosi> i remember looking into the very problem you're talking about a longer while ago
<ochosi> frankly, it didn't seem important enough anymore after a few hours of effort
<ali1234> best thing to do: go through the code and find the test that actually prevents the window from being resized
<ali1234> then use that test to decide whether to show the btton, instead of the test it uses now
<ali1234> that should be at least consistent
<ochosi> guys, with the changes coming to gtk3 dialogs, this little maximize button looks like a poor orphan :}
<ali1234> why?
<ochosi> 1) button-labels are suddenly baseline-aligned, so they look totally unbalanced if you use ButtonImages=1
<ochosi> 2) buttons in gtkdialogs don't have any padding between them anymore
<ali1234> what does that have to do with the window borders?
<ochosi> i thought we were talking about the maximize button in gtkdialogs?
<ali1234> no, we are talking about the maximize button in the window decorations
<ali1234> which aren't even drawn with gtk
<ochosi> yeah, i know, but that is just a minor visual nuisance
<ochosi> there's no technical connection, obviously there's no connection between xfwm4 and gtk3
<ochosi> my point was that this problem of the maximize button is much less grave then the visual inconsistencies that will hit us with gtk3.12
<ochosi> in e.g. gtkdialogs
<ali1234> yes
<brainwash> the visual aspect does not bother me, only the logic behind it
<ochosi> yeah, but as ali1234 said, i don't think there's so much logic, lots of it is "tradition"
<brainwash> why show a maximize button, if you cannot maximize the button
<brainwash> the window, woops
<ali1234> well, have a go at fixing it then
<ali1234> worst that will happen is you have to restart xfwm :)
<ochosi> huhu
<ali1234> but this EWMH stuff will make you crazy
<brainwash> sure, still better than dealing with random thunar segfaults xD
<ochosi> so anyway, i'm totally supporting getting this fixed, but i'm just saying we may have bigger fish to fry
<ali1234> tip: src/xfwm4 --replace ; xfwm4
<ali1234> then if it's borken, just press ctrl-c
<ochosi> +1
<ali1234> ochosi: what is the plan for stock icons etc in dialogs?
<ali1234> gtk3 complains about them endlessly
<ochosi> stock items are gone
<ochosi> they have been deprecated
<ochosi> as have been GActions (if i'm not mistaken)
<knome> ochosi, hai
<ochosi> which is why we have lots and lots of build-warnings in parole suddenly
<ali1234> yeah, so what are we going to replace them with?
<ochosi> nothing i guess
<ochosi> gtkimagemenuitems are next i think
<knome> ochosi, do you approve this direction? http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/trusty_slideshow/slide_whisker.png
<ali1234> nothing?
<ochosi> ali1234: app developers have to implement their stuff without stock, all by themselves
<ochosi> so we can hope they're good at copy-pasting or we'll end up with lots of inconsistency
<ali1234> so what are we going to do with lixfce4ui?
<ochosi> knome: 1) hide the "switch user" please, that'll be hidden in the release too (doesn't make sense anymore)
<knome> oh boo
<knome> i was talking about the cut-work
<ali1234> knome: can you resize it so that the categories on right fill up the space nicely?
<ochosi> knome: the categories should be 16px (i.e. smallest)
<ochosi> then you also get more of them
<ochosi> other than that, i think it's cool
<ochosi> better than before definitely
<knome> maybe we should get a new screenshot then ;)
<ochosi> i'd make the cut more obvious though
<ochosi> maybe a zig-zag line?
<ochosi> like this it looks a bit broken at first
<ali1234> hmm... why have the cut at all?
<ochosi> ali1234: not sure how we can deal with libxfce4ui and gtk3 > 3.10
<ali1234> well, we just need to replace the stock icons with something not-stock
<ochosi> ali1234: there's the upside of waiting so we don't have to "follow" gtk3 development, but then again it means not having *any* influence on the direction gtk3 is taking
<knome> micahg, ping!
<ali1234> afaik all the icons still exist, they just have different names
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> the icons still have standard names
<knome> ochosi, i'll try to get the new defaults in so we can get a new screenshot by the beginning of next week.
<ochosi> and you can use the standard labels
<ochosi> knome: thanks!
<ali1234> the gtk doc has a list of "replace this with that" but it doesn't cover all cases
<ali1234> would be nice if we had something similar for xfce
<ali1234> hint hint
<ochosi> ali1234: basically they said that stock items also created a translation problem etc...
<ochosi> yeah, i think we should really start to port xfce to gtk3
<ochosi> 1) release 4.12, and then immediately start porting
<ochosi> but with all the stuff they're deprecating it's a bit annoying already to choose a minimum version to rely on..
<ali1234> for stuff like gtkimagemenu we can just create xfceimagemenu
<ochosi> using gtk3.6 is totally a bad idea meanwhile
<ochosi> yeah, we can, but it'll look totally inconsistent
<ali1234> images and menuitems still exist
<ochosi> only xfce apps will have imagemenuitems then
<ali1234> and containers
<ochosi> anyway, i'm a bit concerned about all the mess gtk3 brings along
<ochosi> i mean visually
<ali1234> well i wouldn't suggest using it in all applications
<ochosi> tons of inconsistency
<ali1234> only stuff like the panel menu
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> true that
<ali1234> that will also fix the bug where you can't turn off icons in menus in apps and still have them in the panel menu
<ochosi> yup, that could be a good way to go
<ochosi> i think it would be interesting to start porting thunar
<ochosi> iirc nick has started that before
<ali1234> gtk3 apps will look inconsistent anyway due to headerbars
<ochosi> yeah, the whole gnome-design thingy
<ochosi> so it'd be interesting to pick that up and see whether the exo-iconview can be dropped entirely
<ochosi> (maybe exo can go away entirely)
<ali1234> thunar is huge...
<ochosi> i know, but it's also a good "benchmark"
<ali1234> i would rather get the core stuff done first... panel, xfwm, xfdesktop
<ali1234> xfsettings should be trivial
<ochosi> for the panel there was also a branch
<ali1234> but not the config panels
<ochosi> exactly
<ochosi> the config-panels involve all components :)
<ali1234> but those are all libxfce4ui
<ochosi> well i dunno, isn't xfwm4 also huge and annoying to port?
<ali1234> hmm... not really, because it doesn't use much gtk
<ali1234> it's more gdk/cairo/xlib
<ali1234> also it's nowhere near as much code as thunar, which is just massive
<ali1234> thunar is probably more code than panel, xfwm, xfdesktop combined
<ochosi> yeah, but the cairo-related stuff would have to be updated a lot i guess
<ali1234> the cairo stuff is really simple blitting ops though
<ochosi> for xfwm4 i see the least benefit of gtk3 actually
<ali1234> yeah
<ochosi> apart from apps being able to request "dark variants"
<ochosi> there's really nothing much there
<ochosi> apps at least get stuff like the nice scrolling effect of gtk3
<ali1234> i don't really care about apps
<ochosi> not sure what it's called, maybe "kinetic"
<ali1234> i don't even use that many of them
<sergio-br2> hey brainwash
<sergio-br2> fine?
<sergio-br2> i'm not having anymore this rigth tapping issue
<ali1234> i think mousepad is the only one i use
<sergio-br2> but i didn't install your ppa
<ali1234> and thunar
<ochosi> hm, mousepad should be far less code and hence much easier to port
<ochosi> and also less problematic, as it's not core
<ochosi> that's the one good thing about xfce, it's not really much of a problem to port stuff step-by-step
<ochosi> panel is a bit annoying with goodies and plugins being gtk2 when the panel goes gtk3
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<brainwash> we need more man power to port and test everything
<brainwash> sergio-br2: ok, maybe you should add a comment to the bug report then
<sergio-br2> xchat use different icon (that X default) in Alt + Tab and in the panel. Is it the expected behavior?
<sergio-br2> already comment
<brainwash> ok, thanks
<ochosi> sergio-br2: many apps are like that. they hardcode their icon (or even the icon-size), nothing we can do but submit bugreports to the apps
<sergio-br2> ahh, like synaptic...
<sergio-br2> but unity uses the same icon. Is it its feature?
<brainwash> we could tweak xfwm4 to use the bamf daemon :D
<ochosi> the alt-tab dialog of unity works differently
<ochosi> xfwm4's alt-tab dialog uses the icon set by the app
<knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/trusty_slideshow/slide_customize.png
<ochosi> unity uses bamf afaik
<Unit193> Eww, bamf. :/
<sergio-br2> maybe a wishlist?
<ochosi> which gets icons from the desktop-file
<ochosi> well, it's an annoying dependency
<brainwash> why annoying?
<ochosi> i don't see xfce-devs agreeing to adding that
<ochosi> because it might not be available in all distros
<brainwash> right, it's unlikely that we implement this
<ochosi> so it'd have to be optional to say the least
<ochosi> knome: yeah, that's pretty much like i imagined it
<ali1234> bamf is total rubbish
<ali1234> it never works right
<ali1234> it's worse than nothing at all, because at least nothing is consistent
<knome> ochosi, MENUICON Â» SETTINGSICON Â» APPICON Application, or, MENUICON Â» SETTINGSICON Settings Manager Â» APPICON Application
<ochosi> knome: as you wish i'd say. both options are totally fine imo
<ochosi> knome: have you pushed the "make the desktop" slide yet?
<ochosi> ali1234: dunno, bamf works well enough in docks like plank or docky
<ochosi> haven't really found it to be very buggy
<brainwash> or indicator-sound
<ali1234> i have never seen a sock that works properly
<ali1234> or a dock either
<ochosi> yeah, mine all have holes...
<ali1234> not even the apple one works right
<ochosi> guess i should cut my nails more often! :D
<ochosi> really?
<ochosi> that's surprising
<ali1234> yeah, really
<ochosi> what's not working
<ochosi> (i've never used osx for >30mins)
<ali1234> half of applications don't stack properly and you just get an icon for each window
<ali1234> same thing that happens in docky, unity etc
<ali1234> or it doesn't see the windows at all
<ochosi> but is that a problem in bamf or apps?
<ali1234> or completely different apps get groups for no reason (java)
<ali1234> it is a problem in the whole concept of docks
<ali1234> the display server only knows about windows
<ali1234> it does not know about apps
<ali1234> docks try to present a list of apps
<ali1234> task bars present a list of windows
<ali1234> that's why task bars are inherently superior to docks
<ali1234> this is another problem of X that wayland totally doesn't address btw
<ali1234> in wayland you'll be lucky if docky even works at all
<ali1234> wayland is great if you don't care about any of this stuff eg because you are making a phone or a set top box
<ali1234> because it's not forced on you in a half-assed X11 implementation... you can just ignore it
<ali1234> but if you need to handle it... you are on your own
<ali1234> and if you're making a third party dock like docky you are totally at the mercy of the compositor, for which there are no standards at all
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> yeah, doesn't sound nice
<ochosi> but otoh grouping is worth-while
<ochosi> the tasklist-plugin also allows for grouping
<ochosi> it works differently to docky though
<ochosi> also, grouping is less of a concern to me in alt-tab, it's more getting the right icon
<knome> ochosi, should have.
<knome> ochosi, how so?
<ochosi> knome: err, sry, missing context
<knome> :)
<knome> 00:36  ochosi: knome: have you pushed the "make the desktop" slide yet?
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> ok :)
<ochosi> too much log in between
<knome> i'll push a small bunch of fixes soonish
<ochosi> ok, i'll wait then with whatever i'd push
<knome> don't have to wait, i can merge
<ochosi> yeah, but that's ugly in bzr
<knome> why would you care if i do it? :)
<ochosi> it destroys the commitlog if the settings of the repo arent nice
<elfy> knome: I got wrapped up in a dead forum earlier - did the slideshow get 'finished' 
<knome> elfy, not finished, but it's pretty clear what to do with it now :)
<elfy> ok :)
<ochosi> knome: i'm on rev608, but i don't see the changes you pasted
<ochosi> i mean the screenshots
<knome> ochosi, ah,
<elfy> knome: worth grabbing it to look? 
<knome> no, didn't upload those yet
<knome> elfy, soonish
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> elfy: i'd wait a bit longer :)
<elfy> let me know - I'll have an unjaundiced eye 
<ochosi> ali1234: reliable grouping would be nice, but as i said i'd be mostly interested to improve the icon-situation, cause that's one of the more prominent/important things in xfwm4's alt-tab dialog
<elfy> which probably doesn't mean very much to you ... 
<ochosi> ali1234: the tasklist in the panel works much better, havent looked at the diffs yet, but the two are sometimes inconsistent (i.e. showing different icons)
<ochosi> knome: ping me when i can pull :)
<knome> ochosi, pushed 609
<knome> you about to push a some content for the customize slide?
<ochosi> not yet
<knome> aha, what then? :)
<ochosi> well, working on >1 thing atm
<knome> aha
<ochosi> i can ping you before i push
<knome> any ETA?
<knome> should i tell elfy to pull meanwhile
<knome> :)
 * elfy really needs sleep 
<knome> elfy, then go to bed :)
<knome> we don't *need* any review today
<elfy> waiting for canonical IS anyway :)
<knome> tomorrow, sunday or monday is fien
<knome> for what? :D
<elfy> to fix bits of the forum
<elfy> pulled rev 609
 * elfy starts commenting ... 
<elfy> slide 1 - I'd say 'any' in free of any fees is a bit superfluous
<knome> elfy, ah, right, we're going to refresh the first slide completely .P
<knome> so don't worry about that too much
<knome> forgot to mention that
<knome> there will also be another pretty much empty slide, dismiss that too for the moment
<elfy> slide 2 - I like the way the 3 sections are seperated, perhaps comment in the adding and removing panels that it's for extra panels - you can't remove panel 0
<elfy> yep ok :)
<elfy> slide 3 - the cut menu looks better like that
<elfy> not sure about saying you can reorder - I've not seen how to do that 
<knome> elfy, drag and drop.
<knome> or right click a favorite item, and order alphabetically
<elfy> I think also that Xubuntu User should say slickymaster :p
<elfy> aah yes- I remember now :p
<elfy> slide 3 - screenshot is cut in this - I assume in the real thing it's not 
<knome> hmm?
<knome> screenshot?
<elfy> the image of mugshot - truncated on right side
<knome> that's expected
<elfy> mmm - looks odd, especially given we've cut the menu one to fit in nicely 
<knome> aha
<elfy> if one is 'cut' to fit I would have expected to see them all like that - just an impression
<knome> the menu is "cut" because there was important stuff we wanted to show on the bottom
<elfy> even so 
<knome> in this shot... not really anything worth showing
<knome> yeah, i get it
<knome> ochosi, comment? ^
<elfy> just seems odd - visually to have one and not the other, just because 'we' are putting information across - users will just see the pic 
<elfy> I assume the slide you mean is 'empty' is the make the desktop your own one
<elfy> all I would say is maybe tone down the pink a bit at the moment :)
<knome> ochosi, comment? ^
<knome> and yep, the empty slide is the "make..."
<elfy> I hope that sounds constructive :)
<knome> sure
<elfy> if it doesn't I mean it too :p
<elfy> oh good
<knome> i guess it's a fair point to make
<knome> maybe we should ask pleia2 which kind of pink she prefers the most
<elfy> lol
<knome> because we've been trying to put all kind of pink things in xubuntu for two years and more
<elfy> I particularly like the #00000 shade of pink
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<pleia2> :P
<knome> and now that we are *ACTUALLY* doing it, should be something she likes
<knome> pleia2, hello! :)
<elfy> LOL
<pleia2> not too bright
<elfy> slide 6 - the what we install one - do we need to have USC in the system settings list - when we've mentioned it?
<elfy> pleia2: is that agreeing with me :p
<knome> elfy, *shrugh*
<elfy> :)
<knome> elfy, if we don't need that, then we probably shouldn't mention settings manager either
<elfy> I guess it would look a silly list with one thing in it 
<knome> yes, or that list deleted for good.
<elfy> yea - but then it would look unbalanced with 2 on one side and 1 on the other
<knome> hehe
<knome> well it's already "unbalanced"
<knome> i have thought of aligning the headers
<elfy> yea, but not as much ... 
<knome> and will probably look into that before the upload
<elfy> I'd rather have system & settinsg there than it look lopsided
<knome> yes, i don't think it's a bad thing to have it there
<elfy> ok slide 7 - The Official Docs, that covers... , is shipped - maybe some commas there
<elfy> yea agree I think with keeping them 
<elfy> on second thoughts :)
<knome> ultimately the goal is to be helpful for the user
<ochosi> we can go with a smoother pink
<ochosi> i don't mind that
<ochosi> pleia2: why don't you suggest your favorite shade of pink?
<elfy> so last slide - the "Thanks for taking the time with us" seems a bit odd or contrived to me 
<elfy> pleia2: just not fluorescent - because that would be worse :p
<elfy> ochosi: what do you think about the mugshot image being cut? 
<knome> afaik there are no monitors which produce fluorescent colors
<elfy> pleia2: will have one just for pink :)
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, it's not nice. i'd have preferred to have a screenshot of lots of possible user-avatars. unfortunately the ones we ship by default are so ugly that we don't want to show them
<elfy> ochosi: not quite what I mean - let me try and explain what I saw
<elfy> so I see the whisker menu image - which is cut - I understand that we've done that to fit in information - but 2 slides later there is one that isn't 'cut' to fit and it just jars my eyes
<knome> ochosi, he's referring to the right hand side being "hidden"
<ochosi> yeah sure, i understand
<elfy> I'd prefer to see that 'cut' to fit too - even for no other reason than to look like the other
<elfy> would look more like we'd thought of that 
<elfy> does that make sense?
<ochosi> to some extent
<ochosi> we've had this sort of "cutting" in slideshows before though
<ochosi> so it's nothing new really
<ochosi> brb
<knome> yeah, and to be more exact, we've had both cut and full windows
<elfy> knome: I'm trying to think of something to do with the Thanks wording on the last slide - might be tomorrow though :)
<elfy> maybe something more like "We'd love to hear about your experinces with Xubuntu. You can share the on the mailing list. In the meantime, thanks for taking the time to install Xubuntu with us."
<knome_> did i miss anything?
<elfy> knome: you missed me saying I was looking at rewording last slide perhaps and saying it would be tomorrow - but then posting it :)
<elfy> just after you came back
<elfy> so - nothing of import
<knome> your proposal sounds good
<knome> we thought to move the "share xubuntu" part from the first slide to this last slide
<elfy> yep - that makes sense to me 
<elfy> without the 'any' :)
<knome> mh
<elfy> so last comment from me of a 'change perhaps' nature 
<knome> probably rewritten in any case
<elfy> yea
<knome> i think the proposed text is better in ... nature :)
<knome> somehow it feels more human
<elfy> what I did ^^ ?
<knome> yep
<elfy> english from a rough old country english boy that'll be :)
<knome> bollocks, some softy old brit ;)
<elfy> Want to give something back? To find the ways that you can contribute to Xubuntu, visit the Get Involved section ... "
<elfy> no
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-15
<knome> and it's not impossible to do multiple, flying to germany isn't too expensive anyway
<knome> actually,
<ochosi> jjfrv8: the font also seems a bit off btw in your screenshot. is this droid sans 9 with 96dpi?
<jjfrv8> hmm, let me check
<ochosi> knome: yeah, true
<jjfrv8> good eye, ochosi 
<ochosi> micahg: meeeeerge ;)
<knome> a return bus trip to forssa (115km from helsinki) costs 46,10 euros...
<knome> so double that and you are in berlin and back!
<knome> but yeah, i'm off
<ochosi> jjfrv8: well that's what i'm not paid for to do here ;D
<ochosi> knome: night!
<knome> thanks everybody for the sprinting and stuff!
<knome> nighty!
<knome> ->
<elfy> cya knome 
<ochosi> night everyone!
<elfy> dkessel: - never noticed you in here as well :)
<jjfrv8> knome, one with a jagged cut line: http://imagebin.org/299415
<jjfrv8> knome, or a shortened one with no scroll bar: http://imagebin.org/299416
<elfy> knome: MP done and waiting
<dkessel_> elfy: you never noticed me here because I have never been here ;)
<elfy> ha ha ha
<knome> elfy, what do you think of something like "Xubuntu will always come without any fees; feel free to pass on your installation media to your friend and let them try Xubuntu as well!"
<AussieDownUnder> knome, that's pretty long
<elfy> I really don't like the any :)
<AussieDownUnder> "Xubuntu like a dirty hippy, forever free"
<knome> elfy, yeah, remove that and what do you like it then :P
<knome> AussieDownUnder, that's not helpful.
 * elfy is just looking to see what it actually looks like
<knome> and i would also move it below the other <p> with that wording
<AussieDownUnder> "xubuntu, forever free & shareable"
<AussieDownUnder> Yeah I lol sorry about that. And yeah don't take my advice ever. Except I think yours is way long.
<knome> we are not trying to come up with a motto
<AussieDownUnder> minus the I*
<AussieDownUnder> Oooooh. I guess I should ask what you's are doing then? If yous even want to tell me that is.
<elfy> knome: ok- how about "Xubuntu will always come without fees; feel free to pass on your installation media and let others try Xubuntu as well.
<AussieDownUnder> elfy, that's a winner
<knome> AussieDownUnder, working on the installer slideshow
<knome> elfy, yeah, that sounds good
<AussieDownUnder> knome, okay.
<elfy> you want me to do that and push?
<knome> elfy, and you think it's ok to drop it below the other paragraph?
<elfy> yea - I think that will look more logical
<knome> if you have it handy, sure; if not, i can merge it locally
<elfy> got it here 
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll look at other things meanwhile then
<elfy> knome: ok - so I am pushing with the changes and ordered 1 - we'd love, 2 - pass it on and 3 - help us
<knome> yep
<AussieDownUnder> sorry dudes & dudets didn'y realise I was in this devel channel. I'll quit out since what yous are doing looks extremely important.
<elfy> knome: pushed that
<knome> ta
<knome> so,
<knome> who did what
<elfy> I don't understand 
<knome> i'm updating the changelog
<elfy> oic - no idea lol
<knome> ok, pushed rev611
<knome> with changelog mentioning elfy as well ;)
<elfy> lol
<knome> hmm
<knome> looks like it's a bit tight
<knome> i'll make the column wider
<elfy> ok
<elfy> I did wonder
<knome> heh,
<knome> that artwork is fron natty ;)
<elfy> I still think that the mugshot image should be cut to fit - even in the light of a new day
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah
<knome> we'll discuss that with ochosi when he gets back
<elfy> yep
<elfy> d'oh
<elfy> meant to reword slightly ... 
<knome> huh?
<elfy> or at least talk about it 
<knome> what then? :)
<elfy> The different ways to contribute to the Xubuntu community
<elfy> rather than The different ways that you can contribute
<elfy> it's obvious that it's 'you' 
<knome> done
<elfy> *opinion*
<elfy> ok :)
 * elfy shall spend a bit of time looking at Simon's blog post this weekend too
<knome> nice
<elfy> and I just need to check figures for mine and give it a new look and that should be ready to roll shortly after release
<elfy> knome: one thing I keep meaning to mention - with the old website you could see slightly older blog posts - not so now
<knome> elfy, yep
<knome> elfy, we will have to think of that, and if we start to use the team calendar more actively, maybe showing new events from that too
<elfy> anything can be done to make them a bit more discoverable?
<elfy> yea
<knome> possible, will have to touch the ode most probably though
<knome> but will look at that once all release-critical, deadline-related stuff is done
<elfy> I guessed as much 
<knome> there is no website freeze ;)
<elfy> oh yea of course - totally agree :)
<elfy> was just mentioning it when I thought of it - because I will forget all about it till the next time :D
<knome> heh
<elfy> knome: slight error on slide 7 - currently says The different to contribute ... missing ways :)
<elfy> bbl
<knome> heh
<dkessel_> slide 5 says "left top" - shouldn't that rather be "top left"?
 * knome shrugs :)
<arrith> is there a task tracker for the xubuntu website? (i should probably google this, i'm assuming launchpad)
<knome> arrith, https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
<arrith> thanks :X
<arrith> is http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com automated or people submit reports?
<knome> people submit results
<arrith> ah ok. that makes sense. are there any automated test suites for the isos?
<arrith> http://qa.ubuntu.com/getting-involved/automated-tests/
<arrith> hm few google results on that
<knome> Unit193, linguas2 looks okay to me. is there something else we need to make the translations working?
<Unit193> Full translations?
<knome> well we almost have such. :P
<Unit193> knome: I'd say testing.
<brainwash> slickymaster: hey, should we turn bug 1289411 into a meta report? because there are also upstream patches for xfce4-settings and libxfce4ui which addresses the initial problem (messed up xfce_dialog_show_help function)
<ubottu> bug 1289411 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Help button of Desktop Settings UI doesn't open online help" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1289411
<Unit193> knome: Unbroke it now too.
<knome> :)
<knome> i should test it some day
<knome> like tomorrow
<knome> bluesabre, bug 1223808
<ubottu> bug 1223808 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmbrc misses line to activate albuminfo-plugin" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223808
<knome> bluesabre, did that ever get fixed?
<bluesabre> knome: I think there have been multiple uploads after that
<bluesabre> I can check today
<knome> ok, thanks
<Unit193> knome: One thing, you can only decide to make the English guide, but the startpage will always have translated links.
<Unit193> s/translated/translation/
<knome> bluesabre, bug 1291019 ?
<ubottu> bug 1291019 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "xflock4 still uses xscreensaver by default" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291019
<bluesabre> I'll fix that this weekend, we found a security hole, created a patch, and cavalier will do a new release this weekend
<knome> ok
<bluesabre> I'll fix that as I get the new release uploaded
<knome> just for the record, please don't attach bugs to the topic-... blueprint
<knome> they don't show up in the tracker
<knome> i'm moving those to -t-bugs and -t-features as appropriate
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> bug 1177116
<ubottu> bug 1177116 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Xfwm4's 'dialog' window has an unused maximise-button" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177116
<knome> are we doing something for that?
<knome> i guess not
<bluesabre> not sure, ali1234 is the only one that "gets" xfwm
<knome> ali1234, bug 1177116
<brainwash> we talked about it yesterday
<knome> aha
<knome> so... what's the status
<knome> are we trying to tackle that or not?
<brainwash> a fix seems to be unlikely
<brainwash> unless I try to resolve it :D
<knome> that doesn't imply if there is work to be done to try to fix it or not
<brainwash> so it's more of a "wishlist" thing
<knome> i understand the scope
<brainwash> no one has done anything until now, so no
<brainwash> we don't want to break anything at this point of the dev cycle
<knome> unlinking it then
<brainwash> should we add bug 1232804 to t-features?
<ubottu> bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Improve "login greeter -> desktop" transition in Xubuntu" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
<knome> i'm generally +1 for adding "fix released" bugs
<knome> because it's obvious that this progress was made for T
<knome> though could also be -t-bugs
 * knome shrugs
<knome> you decide
<brainwash> not really a bug
<brainwash> ok
<Unit193> brainwash: What didn't make it?
<brainwash> Unit193: what do you mean?
<Unit193> Nothing, nevermind.
<Unit193> Though, not sure I'm in favor of it in Xfwm, causes quirks on one computer here.
<brainwash> so you should create a lp report
<brainwash> otherwise we won't know which hardware/driver might cause problems
<Unit193> RV370/M22, but haven't tried it in Trusty yet.
<brainwash> please do
<Unit193> (Tried it on this hardware in Trusty, that is.)
<jjfrv8> knome, does it look like this: http://imagebin.org/299466 because I'm building it on precise, or is that the way you wanted it?
<knome> jjfrv8, hmm, no, that's not the way it's supposed to look
<knome> jjfrv8, i'll investigate on it
<slickymaster> hey guys
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hey elfy 
<slickymaster> brainwash: what's the actual procedure to turn a bug into a meta report?
<slickymaster> hey knome, the whisker shot is broken diagonally ;)
<knome> mamma mia
<knome> :P
<knome> i'm off to sauna, bbl
<slickymaster> you lucky one :P
<slickymaster> and privileged
<elfy> anyone got link to menulibre's docs 
<elfy> nvm - got it here lol
<slickymaster> here elfy http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=menulibre-docs
<elfy> ta
<elfy> slickymaster: if you get chance over the next few days menulibre is there now https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1256911/+merge/211181
<brainwash> Noskcaj: any idea regarding bug 1291606 ?
<ubottu> bug 1291606 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "Mousepad isn't localized in Dutch, although fully translated into Dutch on Launchpad" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291606
<brainwash> the mouse package has been updated for quite some time
<brainwash> dutch translation was added 2013-04-26
<brainwash> so add it and rebuild? or build from a new git snapshot, because only translations have been added/updated anyway
<brainwash> oh, should be "the mousepad package hasn't been updated for quite some time" :)
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Maybe check various bugtrackers for other reasons for a mousepad 0.3.1 to be released
<brainwash> there are none
<brainwash> valid reasons
<Noskcaj> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?component=General&list_id=16313&product=Mousepad&resolution=---
<brainwash> so we pick random patches and release a new version? :)
<brainwash> that sounds somewhat unlikely
<Unit193> Maintainer of mousepad on IRC?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, It's possible there will be a release for just translation updates, but some bugfixes would make a release more likely
<brainwash> sounds reasonable
<Unit193> xfce 10497 would be good.
<ubottu> xfce bug 10497 in General "Ctrl-click-drag freezes mousepad, using 100% of CPU" [Critical,Assigned] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10497
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/XHjVq0WVYaM5cee8LMN9/ backtrace for that bug.
<Unit193> Well, "backtrace"
<brainwash> why do you even ctrl-click-drag in the first place?
<Unit193> Because that's what the bug report said would lag it. :P
<brainwash> if it does not work, does it break any functionality?
<brainwash> we should tell the dutch guy, that he needs to fix some random mousepad bug, so that his translation will finally land in ubuntu :)
<Unit193> Hah, he really wants everything translated. :P
<andrzejr> ochosi, bugfix release of the indicator plugin
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=162fac0d77373c5c4195eea03dbaf8f02e924a1a - xfce 10749
<ubottu> xfce bug 10749 in General "blank Properties window" [Major,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10749
<brainwash> it can be marked as resolved then I guess
<brainwash> Noskcaj: do you know what's wrong here? https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/xfce-git/+build/5815847
<brainwash> wasn't able to build it successfully yet
<Noskcaj> What packaging changes have there been from what's in ubuntu?
<brainwash> I simply updated the changelog and copied the debian folder
<Unit193> brainwash: Yes.
<Unit193> brainwash: Also, recently PPA'd it for you, thanks for the hint.
<brainwash> ppa'd what?
<Unit193> xfdesktop.
<Noskcaj> the bottom of https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+recipe/xfdesktop-git should say 3.0 ,not 0.3
<Noskcaj> i don't know if that changes anything
<Unit193> Noskcaj: bzr builder 0.3 is right, this isn't Debian packaging.
<brainwash> the recipe format?
<Unit193> It's the dash.
<brainwash> maybe I should try to build it locally first
<Noskcaj> Unit193, oops
<brainwash> Noskcaj: did you check the build log?
<Noskcaj> Just that dh_auto_configure did nothing
<Unit193> brainwash: As I said, it's the dash, trusty no longer accepts those in native packages.
<brainwash> dash? which dash? =S
<Noskcaj> in the version number
<bluesabre> any translators around?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, en_AU :)
<bluesabre> works for me
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk
<bluesabre> rosetta was messed up, please update your translation and let's see if it sticks
<Unit193> bluesabre: I can do en_AU, s/o/ou/g -i :P
<bluesabre> haha
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> translation works fine
<Unit193> s/chips/crisps/ -e s/fries/chips/ :P
<bluesabre> good deal
<bluesabre> I'll see if launchpad correctly does the automatic upload later, and then I'll do a call for refreshed translations
<Noskcaj> Unit193, learn s/z/s and you have completed you en_au training
<Unit193> Thus, why I think it's pointless. :P
<Noskcaj> of course it's pointless. I do it for lulz and lp karma
<Unit193> Which is a near abusive reason to. :/
<brainwash> so where is the dash and how do I remove it?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-16
<ali1234> i'm looking at all the crash reports on thunar
<ali1234> they are all Thunar, not thunar
<ali1234> Thunar is a symlink to thunar
<ali1234> exo invokes it as Thunar
<ali1234> so does the session init, as Thunar --daemon
<ali1234> but here's the thing: if you don't invoke thunar with --daemon, it will not use an already running daemon
<Unit193> Noticed the daemon wasn't getting used. :/
<ali1234> if you launch thunar with exo it always uses the daemon
<ali1234> which means places plugin, or the menus
<ali1234> but whenever i have been debugging i always run it from the command line
<ali1234> hmm in fact if you run it without --daemon it will use an existing daemon
<ali1234> hmm this is confusing
<ali1234> a large number of the reports are --daemon but not all of them
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmm
<ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/tree/thunar/thunar-standard-view.c#n3898 something fishy is going on in this function
<ali1234> g_source_remove (standard_view->priv->thumbnail_source_id); causes a g_critical
<ali1234> "sometimes"
<ali1234> this is only called on that variable in one place though
<ali1234> oh, it's uninitialized i guess
<ali1234> hmm... nope
<ali1234> oh, i see it
<ali1234> fixed. there's no way that can be causing the crashes though
<elfy> knome: got menulibre testcase written - needs checking over etc https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1256911/+merge/211181
<bluesabre> greetings everyone
<bluesabre> translators, please see the updated template at https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter
<bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193, brainwash: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/lightdm/2014-March/000546.html
<bluesabre> hopefully Corsac will get that moved into debian in the next few days
<brainwash> ali1234: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar?field.searchtext=sigsegv
<brainwash> thunar tends to segfault a lot
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> not counting the private reports :/
<brainwash> bluesabre: hi
<bluesabre> hey brainwash
<brainwash> how do you automatically import from git(hub)?
<brainwash> into a bzr branch
<brainwash> daily shimmer-themes for example
<bluesabre> https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Imports
<bluesabre> use the "request one" link towards the bottom
<brainwash> ah, got it
<brainwash> thanks :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: I need to register a project, right?
<bluesabre> for what?
<brainwash> for the import
<bluesabre> which application?  most of them already have a project registered on lp
<brainwash> right, but I don't want to abuse the already registered projects sites
<brainwash> was thinking of +junk
<bluesabre> I don't think you can send it to +junk
<bluesabre> there is nothing wrong with doing a git->bzr sync
<bluesabre> if somebody else is not already doing it, there is no issue
<bluesabre> but if the project is already registered, there is a good chance it already exists
<bluesabre> including the import
<brainwash> currently I'm doing it locally and push it to a junk branch
<bluesabre> ah
<brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+junk/xfdesktop-git
<brainwash> works fine, but I need to run it on my side
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/xfdesktop/master
<brainwash> which isn't bad
<bluesabre> launchpad doesn't allow multiple git syncs from the same git tree
<bluesabre> but for recipes, you can use lp:xfdesktop as a base
<brainwash> ok, thanks for explaining this :)
<bluesabre> sure thing
<brainwash> bluesabre: bug 1287368
<ubottu> bug 1287368 in mugshot (Ubuntu) "mugshot crashed with IndexError in init_user_details(): string index out of range" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287368
<brainwash> mugshot 0.2.2-1 has been already released
<brainwash> lp number is wrong in the changelog
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> woops
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> marked it as fix released in ubuntu
<brainwash> ok :)
<bluesabre> I've sent the upload request for light-locker
<bluesabre> once that is done, I will update xflock
<bluesabre> I'll change the order to light-locker, xscreensaver, gnome-screensaver
<bluesabre> that way the new lock is available to upgrade users, and it can now be correctly disabled
<bluesabre> and there will be no double locking :)
<brainwash> hopefully it will resolve this whole screen locking madness once and for all :D
<bluesabre> *fingers crossed*
<bluesabre> I'm going to have breakfast and clean now, bbl
<brainwash> cya
<elfy> bluesabre: jfi - menulibre testcase done now - just waiting for someone other than me to apporve it
<bluesabre> oh yeah, I was going to have a look at that
<bluesabre> checking it out now
<elfy> ok - well if you approve it I can get it merged and synced to the tracker
<bluesabre> oh yeah, I am a test case admin
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> don't break it :|
<elfy> lol
<bluesabre> approved
<elfy> okey doke - you want to merge it or shall I do the whole shebang?
<bluesabre> go for it
<bluesabre> I've got a messy env right now, don't want to mess anything up :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> bah gedit keeps screwing things up :|
<bluesabre> gedit < mousepad
<elfy> I had it for some reason and keep forgetting to stop it being default ... 
<pleia2> finally wrote the february team report
<elfy> aaah 
<elfy> now I see what's wrong with it and why I get someone else to check them for me 
<elfy> bad bluesabre shouldn't have approved it :D
<bluesabre> ?
<bluesabre> what did I miss?
<elfy> all the <dl> and </dl>'s :p
<bluesabre> bah
<bluesabre> pleia2: how'd february go?
<pleia2> good good
<elfy> that's better lol 
<elfy> bluesabre: ok - all done - call to arms sent to the list :)
<elfy> thanks pleia2 :)
<elfy> \o/ no bugs left on qa blueprint :)
<bluesabre> woohoo!
<elfy> indeedy - only 2 work items too - and one of those is for the website team :p
<knome> elfy, will look at the menulibre test in 5-15mins
<knome> oh, bluesabre has approved already
<knome> and merged
<knome> ok, won't look at it then
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<knome> hf
<knome> bluesabre, why is translations restricted but not structured?
<knome> bluesabre, that is, lightdm gtk+ greeter
 * dkessel starts a VM to try elfy's new testcase
<dkessel> look what we have here... bug 1293151
<ubottu> bug 1293151 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "menulibre: hidden entry is still displayed in menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1293151
<dkessel> that testcase may already pay off, elfy =) ^
<elfy> dkessel: if the save button is available then it needs saving - did it hide once it was saved?
<elfy> I just tried again, build a launcher - visible, set hide to one, visible, save change, not visible
<dkessel> elfy: i just tried again.. one time it worked correctly. but now i again have it in a state where it does not change the hidden state in the menu...
<elfy> dkessel: definitely working here - I assume you're completely updated
<dkessel> elfy: yup
<dkessel> elfy: if you have teamviewer i can show you the problem live ;)
<elfy> mmm - no idea I'm afraid then, try running menulibre --verbose from a terminal see if anything odd shows 
<elfy> I believe you :)
<dkessel> ;)
<elfy> just can't confirm it here 
<dkessel> ok i'll try
<elfy> thanks
<dkessel> i guess this should not happen - added it to the bug: (menulibre:5099): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_tree_model_get_iter: assertion 'path->depth > 0' failed
<elfy> if you still get issues we'll get bluesabre to look
<elfy> I get that error
<elfy> still works though
<dkessel> mh
<elfy> dkessel should be aware that elfy does NOT do voodoo nor coding
<knome> hah
<knome> except the traditional voodoo
<elfy> :)
<dkessel> elfy: alright :) no voodoo here, too ;) but coding, yes...
<elfy> then I am sure that the team as a whole will be pleased to see you arrive on the shores of #xubuntu-devel :p
<knome> definitely!
<knome> (well, even without coding input)
 * elfy reminds knome to lock the door to the channel now 
<knome> yeah, it's already locked
<knome> no way out
<elfy> dkessel: and this on your LP page - " - finding ways to improve automatic testing"
<dkessel> uh-oh :o
<elfy> that would be awesome - we're floundering - lderan is the only looking at that for us :)
<elfy> double uh-oh :o
<elfy> :D
<dkessel> the .desktop file gets updates correctly... i guess this may be something in the menu then...
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/299610
<elfy> dkessel: that for me DOES not show in the menu
<dkessel> i got it. after logging out and logging in again it does show up correctly in the menu
<elfy> mmm - odd, shouldn't need that afaik
<dkessel> did i mention the live session?
<elfy> no :)
<elfy> let me boot vm
<elfy> I'll check in there
<elfy> we've had other odd things of late in a vm - try grabbing a window and dragging it to the next workspace
<elfy> that seems to fail in vm's 
<dkessel> not in mine
<elfy> ok - can confirm that issue in a vm 
<elfy> dkessel: so in a vm you can drag an application from one workspace to another?
<dkessel> elfy: yup. that works
<elfy> dkessel:  I'll make a note on the testcase 
<elfy> dkessel: ok - thanks for that - I've amended the testcase now 
<elfy> I'll mark the bug invalid 
<elfy> actually I won't - I'll ping bluesabre to decide :)
<dkessel> btw current xubuntu isos are very close to not fitting on my old 1 gb sd card anymore... do you know what causes the image to be that big?
<dkessel> i guess that's because of the "being based on ubuntu" fact? lubuntu manages to keep the size at 700 mb though...
<knome> dkessel, yeah, it became harder and harder and eventually impossible to fit a standard CD, after which we decided to set the target 1BG USB drive..
<knome> if it happens not to fit, inform us ASAP
<dkessel> knome: well... 27,4 MB to go ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah, we shouldn't go over...
<dkessel> i'm fine with the target size choice
<knome> ochosi, elfy: poked the locking article
<elfy> knome: pardon?
<elfy> oh nvm - worked it out lol
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-09
<knome> pleia2, is now tomorrow? :)
<pleia2> suppose so
<knome> want to chat about it?
<pleia2> sure
 * knome opens the mail
<pleia2> so prior to going with unixstickers, we tried a few t-shirt vendors
<pleia2> they were expensive or not so good or both
<knome> they are talking about embroiding
<knome> which means probably a smallish logo
<pleia2> yeah, and maybe less competitive
<pleia2> some people will like the unixstickers ones, some people might want embroidered
<knome> 24 euros
<knome> that was for a polo
<knome> 22 euros for a t-shirt
<knome> but they say free worldwide shipping...
<pleia2> offering polos would be nice
<pleia2> the site shows it to me in USD
<knome> actually looks like they have kubuntu stuff
<knome> but oh well
<andrzejr> Unit193, ochosi, I've released fixes for the pulseaudio plugin with gtk3.14. The plugin mostly works and does not crash but there are still some occasional glitches with popup/popdown and a possible memory leak. Let me know if you spot anything (or if you have patches) :-)
<andrzejr> gn
<knome> looking at one of the kubuntu t-shirts, the embroidery isn't "awesome"
<pleia2> knome: so I'm inclined to pass on regular t-shirts, but offering polos through them would be nice if we can confirm quality
<knome> the sweater looks a bit better..
<pleia2> the "sweater" looks cool too
<knome> heh
<knome> i was referring to the embroidery
<pleia2> ah :)
<knome> the icon part is a bit meh
<knome> if you look at the polo
<pleia2> I just think embroiding is a bit weird on a tshirt
<knome> i wonder how good our stuff would look
<pleia2> suppose there's only one way to find out
<knome> "Free shipping is a promotional offer. The normal price is 16 â¬."
<knome> what if we asked for a sample?
<pleia2> I think we should do that, with some flowery words about needing to confirm quality before we recommend it to our users (true)
<knome> yes
<knome> so, you want one more?
<pleia2> I can pay for my own this time
<knome> or in other words, do you wear sweaters or polos?
<pleia2> I do, and could use one of each
<knome> i think asking for a free sweater (45 euros) would be a bit much, but a free polo could go
<knome> i don't use polos, so...
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> maybe we can direct it at some other person too if you *really* don't want to have one shipped free to you :P
<pleia2> I just don't want to hog the goodies :)
<pleia2> plus it's probably cheaper for them to send it to someone in the eu
<knome> well, ask ochosi if he wants to evaluate a sample xubuntu polo
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> they send from hungary, and austria is relatively close
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> so should we draft a reply email together, or want to assign it to a single person?
<pleia2> I can just do it
<knome> wfm
<knome> you can mention i can provide logos and CC me
<pleia2> will do
<knome> (as always :)
<pleia2> have we been ccing the contacts list too?
<knome> i've done that when i've replied
<pleia2> shimmer email?
<knome> yes
<pleia2> kk
<knome> to keep the full discussion archived
<knome> it would be awkward to have only incoming stuff there...
<pleia2> indeed
<knome> status update: no reply from the guy in the local uni, will repoke him next week
<pleia2> no worries, want to space out these interviews anyway :)
<knome> yep
<knome> any twitter replies from our shoutout?
<knome> and should we social media the sticker thingy again?
<pleia2> nope, and yes we should
<pleia2> also need to announce the winner
<pleia2> for last one
<knome> yep
<knome> do we want to use the name or the nick?
<pleia2> I'll ask him
<knome> oki :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Other uploads to Debian exp: xfce4-panel, xfce4-session, xfce4-settings, xfce4-appfinder, xfce4, xfce4-power-manager (1.4.3-1), thunar, thunar-volman, xfdesktop4, xfwm4, light-locker (1.6.0-1), tumbler,
<Unit193> bluesabre: ....You're not even going to read this are you? :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: I read it...
<bluesabre> A lot of things weren't picked up by syncpackage yesterday
<bluesabre> Unit193: want to package verve-plugin and notes-plugin without libxfcegui?
<bluesabre> we'll drop the other unmaintained plugins and I'll rebuild the last the last ones, then everything should release from -proposed
<bluesabre> ochosi: icons and greybird ready?
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> the icons are ready-ish
<ochosi> i haven't figured out an odd issue with them (but that's mostly about xfpm-gtk3, so no 15.04 concern) and i haven't had time to script the conversion of symbolic icons
<bluesabre> Unit193: one the things I have stuck in proposed release, then I'll quickly sync the debian packages
<bluesabre> *once
<ochosi> lemme look whether there was anything else push-worthy in my local branch
<bluesabre> ok, no
<bluesabre> np
<ochosi> greybird is ready, no changes to the last release apart from that one commit that switches the sidebar away from symbolic icons
<bluesabre> probably won't get to push this morning
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> i'll push a new version for xubuntu-artwork today
<ochosi> then you'll only have to upload
<bluesabre> awesome, thanks ochosi
<ochosi> np
<brainvvash> Unit193, do you know if the thunar-shares-plugin can be packaged? bug 329873
<ubottu> bug 329873 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Thunar Shares Plugin " [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329873
<brainvvash> probably outdated and not possible to dependency issues
<slickymasterWork> krytarik, welcome aboard 
<krytarik> \o/
<ochosi> indeed, welcome! :)
<slickymasterWork> :)
<krytarik> Thanks. :)
<slickymasterWork> krytarik, do you a have a Trello account?
<krytarik> Nope, not yet.
<slickymasterWork> do you feel strongly against having one
<slickymasterWork> ?
<slickymasterWork> just so you can be a part of https://trello.com/b/5CxYcqO8/xubuntu-documentation
<krytarik> Not particularly, no - just another service signed up with though. :P
<knome> you can link it with a google account
<knome> or tbe, login with a google account
<slickymasterWork> exactly 
<krytarik> Ah, lovely.
<knome> what was the outcome of checking if we turn security updates on by default and if/how we need to enable it?
<knome> slickymasterWork, re, the same:
<knome> "Automatic updates are enabled by default in Xubuntu.  ..."
<knome> automatic updates or automatic security updates?
<slickymasterWork> security updates knome 
<slickymasterWork> and the the USC checks them accordingly to the specified interval
<knome> checks, but does it install them?
<slickymasterWork> I think they're downloaded in the background but the user is prompt for its installation 
<knome> ok, so i think we should make them installed automatically too
<knome> and rephrase that paragraph in the docs
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: ^
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I agree
<knome> slickymasterWork, updated string pushed
<knome> also changed unattended to automatic, because they aren't necessarily unattended
<slickymasterWork> ok knome
<knome> waiting for LP to pick up the new string so i can translate it and be at 100% with finnish
<slickymasterWork> :)
<knome> then next thing to touch is the slideshow
<knome> and/or the wallpaper
<slickymasterWork> slideshow first knome, pretty please
<knome> oh shoo
<knome> missing guilabel
<knome> in the string i just poked
 * knome facepalms
<knome> fixed and appended a <warning> about turning them off
<slickymasterWork> tss tsss,  silly knome 
<knome> hmm, an outburst in #xubuntu :P
<drc> Cannot boot today's daily into liveUSB.  2 different iso's (64b), 2 different sticks, tried both dd and unetbootin on both.  MD5 OK and checked disk integrety.  Starts out, blue background shows, rotating circle segment starts, runs a while, then enter screen goes black and all activity stops. :(
<elfy> drc: vm or hardware?
<drc> hardware
<elfy> wake up elfy ... 
<elfy> drc:  of course - hardly any point in saying USB otherwise 
<drc> :)
<drc> You're too busy dreaming about that new job :)
<elfy> I'll just sync and sort a stick out and try here
<slickymasterWork> I got no problems in Vm elfy, drc 
<elfy> drc: funnily enough - just a reply from one I did apply for would be a bonus 
<drc> I'm in the process of dl'ing 32bit, will try then when....
<slickymasterWork> that was 32 bit
<drc> ok, I won't
<elfy> drc: so it got through the first boot menu - then hung? 
<drc> yes
<drc> after a short while, not immediately
<elfy> ok ty
<drc> think I'll continue with 32 bit, just to see...
 * elfy grabs ubuntu image too - always good if that one fails - many more people get interested ... 
<drc> if ubuntu was going to fail, one would think someone would already be screaming.
<elfy> lets see then ... 
<elfy> mmm - so that's a bit on the fubar side again then
<elfy> no point in checking ubuntu's image - rebuilding with latest being from Friday
<slickymasterWork> did you tried on a Vm elfy? I've managed to succeed with it
<elfy> well ... 
<elfy> the way I see it - if vm fails but hardware works - shrug :)
<drc> ok, booting 32 bit
<slickymasterWork> don't you mean the other way around?
<elfy> slickymasterWork: no :)
<elfy> I shrug at vm fails, but not hardware ones 
 * slickymasterWork shrugs also
<elfy> \o/
<elfy> shrugging party :p
<slickymasterWork> VM is not failing though
<elfy> makes a change ... 
<elfy> :p
<slickymasterWork> that's why I brought it to your attention 
 * slickymasterWork wanders outside to have a smoke
<elfy> slickymasterWork: :)
 * elfy tries it in kvm
<drc> ss/sd...32 bit is the same no go.
<GridCube> translations done slickymasterWork 
<elfy> slickymasterWork: and it fails to start in kvm ... 
<drc> queue the systemd haters....3...2...1....GO!
<drc> has anyone tried the update process?
<ali1234> i was going to reinstall
<ali1234> i'm on 14.04 at the moment
<drc> don't :)
<ali1234> why not?
<drc> sorry. was jojing about the problems booting the daily iso.
<drc> s/jojing/joking/
<ali1234> is there actually a problem with systemd?
<drc> ali1234: unknown (to me) can't boot either the 32/64 bit LiveUSB
<drc> from today's daily
<slickymasterWork> thanks GridCube 
<GridCube> de nada
<slickymasterWork> :)
<slickymasterWork> drc I've run dist-upgrade without any issues
<elfy> ali1234: I'd not try with the image currently 
<elfy> well - not tried Install, just tried getting to the live desktop so far
<elfy> ok - brb
<ali1234> i was going to reinstall my main workstaion
<ali1234> but i guess i'll leave it a day or two
<ali1234> or i could try upgrading it
<ali1234> i'm on 14.04 though
<elfy> well lubuntu works 
<elfy> ali1234: I would 
<elfy> slickymasterWork: not getting it to work in vbox here from Try
<slickymasterWork> that's odd elfy, I made it
<elfy> Install option works 
<elfy> ali1234: ^^ 
<slickymasterWork> I used the 32-bit image elfy 
<elfy> slickymasterWork: ok - thanks
<slickymasterWork> np
<elfy> slickymasterWork: not here ... 
<slickymasterWork> yuo're using 20150309 image, right?
<elfy> yep
<slickymasterWork> ?!
<slickymasterWork> no idea of what it might be
<elfy> well - synced images, but synced to today
<slickymasterWork> I just download it
<drc> All my attempts were with freshly (today) dl'd iso's
<elfy> slickymasterWork: shouldn't make any difference tbh
<elfy> drc: thanks
<slickymasterWork> but you did managed to succeed with the 32-bit image, didn't you drc ?
<slickymasterWork> it shoulsn't elfy 
<drc> no
<slickymasterWork> * shouldn't
<drc> neither iso worked (here)
<slickymasterWork> let me double check my image date
<slickymasterWork> that's it, contrary to my believe my image is 20150308, not 20150309
<slickymasterWork> elfy, drc ^^^
 * drc tries real hard not to grin...and fails :)
<slickymasterWork> :P
<elfy> slickymasterWork: ok - I'd be willing to bet a flight to portugal it fails :p
 * slickymasterWork wouldn't mind to lose that bet
 * elfy in the meantime grabs studio image - I suspect that's going to bellyflop too
 * drc wonders if elfy has a wetsuit and board?
<slickymasterWork> grilled fish and good wine waits elfy 
<slickymasterWork> lol, the only sea he'd get would be from the balcony of the restaurant 
<elfy> ha ha 
<elfy> had a hankering for a roast all day long - I think the one I'm cooking is going to be too big
<elfy> even for me ... 
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> gluttony 
<elfy> works every time ... 
<elfy> well ... 
<elfy> Just Xubuntu seemingly 
<elky> that's what sandwiches are for
<elfy> I assume you refer to a glut of gluttony there :p
 * elfy wonders what we've done 
<drc> ah...now I know what went wrong...elfy dribbled the au juice from the roast onto the iso image.
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> what a waste
<elky> elfy: indeed. sandwiches are for putting leftovers in
<slickymasterWork> great knome, thanks for the notes
<slickymasterWork> on the translations that is
<krytarik> elfy: I just did a quick check on the current image manifests of us and a couple of other flavors - rest assured, more will swiftly follow. :P
<krytarik> elfy: Like, you could try Lubuntu and Mythbuntu right now.
<elfy> krytarik: hey :)
<krytarik> Well, hey too. :)
<elfy> so I've successfully booted in either hardware or vm - Lubuntu, Mate, Studio 
<elfy> not done Ubuntu - image from Friday only 
<elfy> not done Kubuntu
<krytarik> The latter two aren't updated yet.
<krytarik> And main Ubuntu neither.
<krytarik> Yep, that.
<krytarik> Kubuntu neither though.
<elfy> mmm - didn't check the dates
 * krytarik did
<elfy> kubuntu is today
<krytarik> Yeah, but earlier.
<elfy> mmm
<krytarik> Sure that Lubuntu doesn't fail the same as ours?
<elfy> krytarik: not when I tried it 
<krytarik> Might be hit or miss? :P
<elfy> might have been 08 given the time in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/lubuntu/vivid/
<krytarik> Yep, might have been.
<elfy> possibly balloons ping to me makes more sense now 
<elfy> [17:52] <balloons> elfy, yes the builds are failing
<elfy> [17:53] <balloons> ahh this is pitti's breakage ;-)
<elfy> [17:53] <balloons>  systemd-sysv : Conflicts: upstart but 1.13.2-0ubuntu9 is to be installed
<krytarik> Heh.
<elfy> and lubuntu boots 
<elfy> at least in vm
<pleia2> knome: did we figure out which european to send the polo to yet? ;)
<ochosi> i vaguely remember reading some backlog about that
<ochosi> pleia2: me me me? :)
<pleia2> ochosi: we were hoping you'd want one, shall I send you details?
<ochosi> please do
<ochosi> i presume it doesn't cost 50â¬?
<pleia2> free sample
<ochosi> oh sweet
<pleia2> you just have to confirm it's good quality to offer to our users
<ochosi> ok, just send me an email, i gotta run now
<ochosi> bbiab
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> ttyl
<Unit193> brainvvash_: 0.2.1 would be doable (unreleased, git) since it works with thunarx-2, current release requires -1 and thunarvfs.
<knome> pleia2, can you tell me what would be a great path (parent post) for all temporary pages we will set up on xubuntu.org
<knome> since i'm pretty sure you don't want to actually delete them, i thought it'd be nice to have them under one page..
<elfy> evening knome 
<knome> hello elfy
<nerdistmonk> I noticed the systemd switchover just came down the update pipes, should i go ahead and let it do the switch or should i wait for a day or so? (on 15.04 x64)
<elfy> works for me - been using systemd for long time
<knome> your question makes no sense; if you are running a development version, why would you wait to update?
<nerdistmonk> well i mean i am just using whatever installed from the beginning
<nerdistmonk> its on upstart, the update is asking to remove upstart and install systemd-sysv
<knome> if you want to wait for updates to make sure everything is stable, why are you using a development version?
<nerdistmonk> knome because this devel system is stable most of the time, been running it for months
<nerdistmonk> why am i being chided for asking a common sense question about a major system thats about to replaced entirely?
<Unit193> knome: Because sometimes it just plain makes sense with big changes like this...
<nerdistmonk> yes^
<Unit193> knome: Because, I've seen the topic of #ubuntu-devel say not to update a certain package before...
 * knome shrugs
<nerdistmonk> its one thing to have a video driver update or a kernel update its another to have the entire init system switch over.
<knome> it's a development version
<knome> it's prone to break
<nerdistmonk> yes so thats why i try with due diligence to avoid breaking it.
<Unit193> nerdistmonk: I've been using systemd for a long, long time now, so it works, except if you use nfs shares.
<Unit193> I've not been a part of switchoverday though.
<elfy> chromebooks appear to be a bit nasty currently
<nerdistmonk> well its not that i expect systemd to be broken, its more like making sure all the needed packages have made it down the pipe.
<Unit193> All except for nfs shares.
<nerdistmonk> i dont use NFS at the moment....(thats another question for another time :P )
<Unit193> Thus, you should be a-ok as elfy said. :D
<elfy> then I'd upgrade it 
<elfy> and if it doesn't boot - there's upstart in the advanced grub menu
<nerdistmonk> <<<my system doesn't like letting me to that menu :D
<elfy> then set it up so it does ;)
<nerdistmonk> meh if it breaks ill just throw rocks at the thing for a while then use a live usb to try and get it going again lol
<Unit193> /etc/default/grub.d/verbose.cfg has GRUB_ENABLE_SUBMENU=false GRUB_DISABLE_SUBMENU=y GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT=  for me. :P
<nerdistmonk> grub.d? i believe my files are in /etc/default/grub unless this systemd update moves stuff?
<nerdistmonk> letting it update now
<elfy> if it does - it's not moved them here
<nerdistmonk> oh goodie an nvidia update and systemd
<nerdistmonk> russian roulette with 2 bullets
<Unit193> nerdistmonk: No, my own package ships that, /etc/default/grub is fine. :P
<Unit193> nerdistmonk: Hah, have fun with that.
<nerdistmonk> <<uses devel + kernel devel repo + xorg edgers + pulseaudio devel....
<nerdistmonk> its like arch linux but without all the breaky-breaky-explody and elitism to match it. :P
<nerdistmonk> then again if you can get arch linux to do something useful for 6 whole months without a failure i guess you deserve to be elite.
<nerdistmonk> i normally never have any trouble out of it, but its still good to ask when a big huge switchover happens.
<nerdistmonk> wayland is going to be white knuckle...
<nerdistmonk> well moment of truth, either be back in 4 minutes or a couple of days :P
<nerdistmonk> must not be the complete switch yet since upstart is still alive and well.
<elfy> dist-upgrade 
<nerdistmonk> i did that
<nerdistmonk> systemd is installed, upstart is gone, but upstart-bin is still alive
<elfy> what's pid 1?
<nerdistmonk> pid 1: /sbin/init splash
<elfy> ps -p 1 -o comm=
<nerdistmonk> systemd, but why is upstart still around then? i figured it would just go poof, bah who cares at list my system didn't croak
<elfy> I think they need to keep upstart around atm
<Unit193> inxi -Ixxx
<nerdistmonk> the only package claiming to need upstart is xfce4-indicator plugin or something
<nerdistmonk> what does that command do?
<Unit193> upstart = /sbin/init being upstart.
<Unit193> Hrm, I see.  That shouldn't happen.
<Unit193> Well, it does need -bin, but..
<nerdistmonk> the system would let me remove it right now if i wanted (upstart-bin), but i think im going to pass on that idea.
<elfy> /sbin/init is systemd here
<nerdistmonk> im on systemd
<nerdistmonk> the command you had me run elfy says systemd
<elfy> or rather link to ... 
<elfy> nerdistmonk: yea - I'm sure you're ok 
<nerdistmonk> so do i yoink the last part of upstart out myself or leave it be?
<elfy> leave it be, it's not hurting anything :)
<nerdistmonk> well im on systemd now then...nice and um....sturdy i guess, its an init system, not sure what the fuss was all about.
<nerdistmonk> lol
<Unit193> Likely because you weren't involved with any of the changes in order for it to work, and it actually went well, and that you've not messed with the internals of it.
<nerdistmonk> well i referencing the end of the world debian users saying systemd was the end of the world or something, idk, as far as i understood it, upstart was basically diet systemd thats likely why i dont notice no big changes either. (no amount of money would have gotten me to use systemd the first week it ever existed though)
<nerdistmonk> in the end its a thingy-mabob that turns my services on and off, like the cactus in my bathroom we have little to say to each other each morning.  Thanks for answering my questions guys, i appreciate it.
<bluesabre> hey all
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> bluesabre, as far as i'm concerned, the documentation package is now ready to upload for the doc string freeze
<bluesabre> great
<knome> if you want another confirmation, poke slickymaster when he gets back
 * slickymaster is always around
<knome> except when he isn't
<slickymaster> but yeah bluesabre I'm ok with it also
<bluesabre> good to hear
<bluesabre> I'll be doing a bit of uploading tonight then :)
<knome> bluesabre, wallpaper is also coming soon ;)
<bluesabre> knome: as in non-UIF soon?
<knome> we had a wallpaper sprint with ochosi today
<knome> yes, no exceptions needed
<bluesabre> :o
<knome> tomorrow or wednesday
<bluesabre> I'll believe it when I see it ;)
<elfy> evening all 
<knome> lol
<knome> bluesabre, seeing it in the PM now? ;)
<slickymaster> nighty elfy 
<knome> slickymaster, he said evening... not night
<elfy> :)
 * elfy still has noisy kids being noisy atm - no sleep yet ... 
<elfy> ochosi: was there ever a resolution to rolled up windows and intellihide? 
<ochosi> elfy: that should be fixed for a while already
<elfy> oh
<ochosi> you should be able to test it in vivid
<elfy> ummm
<elfy> I have been off and on 
<elfy> still the same behaviour here 
<ochosi> a-ha
<knome> elfy is like a rolling window
<knome> *swoop* and he's gone
<elfy> that or one minute he's down 
<elfy> just the up and down are the wrong way around :D
<bluesabre> or now available on pirate bay
<ochosi> elfy: dunno, wfm
<elfy> ochosi: having a look in a vm 
<elfy> bluesabre: ha :)
<elfy> ochosi: oooh - so I tend to always check that when I'm here in hexchat
<elfy> where it doesn't work :D
<knome> we should set up a plan for the next LTS
<knome> to "leak" the xubuntu wallpaper
<knome> so it starts circling around
<elfy> going to have water is it? 
<ochosi> elfy: worked fine with thunar when i just tested it
<elfy> ochosi: as I said - now that I've tried it elsewhere - seems it's only hexchat it fails on here 
<ochosi> that's very strange
<elfy> yep
<elfy> would have been stranger perhaps if xchat failed as well - but it doesn't 
<elfy> I'll make mention of that - but not be at all bothered by that fact
<ochosi> wait, i thought you said it does?
<elfy> hexchat
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> hexchat
<ochosi> oh, xchat
<ochosi> meh
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> my eyes are obviously tired
<elfy> don't look at circles ... 
 * ochosi tries not to
<elfy> well it is night this time - cya tomorrow
<knome> nighty elfy 
<bluesabre> g'night elfy
<Unit193> G'night.
<slickymaster> evening elfy
<knome> slickymaster, lol, now he said night...
<slickymaster> yeaps
<ochosi> bluesabre: how is the 4.12 upload going btw?
<bluesabre> ochosi: working on rebuilds for everything I have upload rights for now
<ochosi> cool!
<knome> ochosi, on a more general level, did all components have releases?
<bluesabre> then gotta get somebody else to rebuild the others
<bluesabre> and drop libxfcegui4 and related
<ochosi> i guess we could ping infinity about this again since he seemed very helpful last time
<bluesabre> ochosi: thats the plan :)
<ochosi> also, i presume this one can be considered postponed?
<ochosi> [bluesabre] Update Catfish and Mugshot authentication to use PolicyKit: INPROGRESS
<ochosi> or are you going for FFe for those?
<bluesabre> probably should postpone those
<ochosi> k, can do if you want
<bluesabre> the changes are too big and likely to cause regressions this late in the game
<bluesabre> I'll do it
<bluesabre> my edit of shame
<ochosi> k
<bluesabre> :P
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> well, getting 4.12 in really covers that up nicely ;)
<ochosi> knome: sorry i had no time to chime in on that, how's the slideshow coming along?
<knome> will be ready for ui freeze
<knome> looking at that tomorrow/wed as well
<ochosi> anything you need review for now?
<knome> if you want, you can look at the proposed branches by slickymaster and elfy
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+activereviews
<knome> but i don't think there's anything ground-breaking that needs a review from XPL
<ochosi> k, perfect
<ochosi> just thought i'd quickly go through our blueprints
<knome> yep
<Unit193> bluesabre: Want me to help review delta?
<bluesabre> Unit193: sure, that'd be cool
<bluesabre> wow
<bluesabre> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=199
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 199 in General "libxfcegui4.so: undefined reference to `g_setenv'" [Blocker,Closed: fixed]
<bluesabre> the deprecated xfce_setenv was implemented way back when because g_setenv was introduced in gtk 2.4
<ali1234> anyone on 14.04 noticed that xdg-open has stopped working?
<ali1234> er sorry, xdg-open on html files and URL
<ali1234> it just opens on google
<ali1234> ubuntu-bug is doing the same thing so i can't even report it
<bluesabre> ali1234: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exo/+bug/1425972
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1425972 in exo (Ubuntu Utopic) "Firefox no longer supports -remote parameter" [Undecided,In progress]
<ali1234> i just remembered about that. thanks for the link anyway
<bluesabre> np
<ali1234> hmm bug looks big and complicated
<bluesabre> the xfce-4.12 and -staging ppas have a patched exo
<ali1234> well i'm using those
<bluesabre> or rather, updated exo
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> nvm then
 * bluesabre hides
<ali1234> or at least i was
<ali1234> this is definitely the bug though
<ali1234> maybe i need to reboot to get the updates or something?
<bluesabre> the updates should be instant I think
<ali1234> okay let me check what i've got
<ali1234> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging/ubuntu trusty main
<bluesabre> hm, never upload exo updates for trusty to that ppa
<bluesabre> I'll do that now
<ali1234> thanks :)
<ali1234> although i'm going to move to 15.04 soonish anyway
<bluesabre> well, this will make it easier to download the iso if somebody pastes it
<bluesabre> ;)
<ali1234> it's gonna get SRU'd eventually i assume?
<bluesabre> already in trusty-proposed
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-10
<knome> elfy, once you get back, ping me about your plans about social mediaizing exploratory testing
<Unit193> ali1234: New firefox should fix that, try upgrading?
<ali1234> i am fully up to date
<Unit193> 36.0.1+build2-0ubuntu0.14.04.1?
<knome> Unit193, new firefox too? are they reverting to use the parameter anyway?
<ali1234> yes
<Unit193>     - revert removal of the deprecated -remote command line option, as some
<Unit193>       older software (eg, Python 2.7's webbrowser module) still depends on it
<Unit193>       (LP: #1425972)
<knome> aha
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1425972 in exo (Ubuntu Utopic) "Firefox no longer supports -remote parameter" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425972
<knome> well that's the right way to go with that...
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> other than the packages I cannot upload, xfce-4.12 is in -proposed :)
<Unit193> Stiiiilll reviewing stuff...
<bluesabre> knome: do you want me to add your colorschemes to -artwork and x-d-s, any other changes expected there?
<bluesabre> along with that, do we want to set mousepad's colorscheme by default? (might be safer to keep it white)
<Unit193> Soo, what's this do?
<bluesabre> Unit193: http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/colorschemes/
<Unit193> Oh right, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.2.1 pushed, looks like it needs more testing and bug reports.
<bluesabre> nice to see that coming along so quickly
<bluesabre> want to kick it into -extras (or wherever we currently have it)?
<Unit193> Already have.
 * bluesabre needs to pay more attention
<bluesabre> knome: other question, how would you like these colorschemes licensed?
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://git.xfce.org/apps/orage/tree/configure.in.in?id=orage-4.10.0#n265
<bluesabre> Unit193: fun
<Unit193> No, it means it doesn't need gui4, which is good.  New verve doesn't either. \o/
<bluesabre> woot
<Unit193> xfce4-linelight-plugin and xfce4-messenger-plugin nobody cares about (heck, couldn't even find a homepage for one of them..)
<bluesabre> I think orage already doesn't depend on gui4
<bluesabre> maybe I'm wrong
<Unit193> xfce4-quicklauncher-plugin is a mess I believe.
<bluesabre> yeah
<Unit193> bluesabre: build-dep.
<bluesabre> silly orage
<bluesabre> notes is really the only important one
<Unit193> Isn't that a mess too?
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-notes-plugin/commit/configure.ac.in?id=d11fe51fae95b5b4963847be76ae4a07409a6076 wonder if that'd do it.
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-notes-plugin/commit/?id=d11fe51fae95b5b4963847be76ae4a07409a6076 actually.
<bluesabre> I'd say so
<bluesabre> its ready for a release, except it doesn't build with latest vala
<Unit193> So, "it's ready for release, just doesn't build"?  That doesn't sound ready. :D
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Does your gui4 package build with gcc5 then?
<bluesabre> Unit193: haven't tried
<bluesabre> is gcc5 landing in vivid?
<Unit193> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10087 so this?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10087 in General "build system needs to be updated for automake-1.13" [Normal,New]
<Unit193> bluesabre: No, but good to get things ready, as the mail said.
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I'll give it a shot
<Unit193> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20150202-gcc5-vivid.html#xubuntu
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2015-March/038714.html explains.
<bluesabre> ah, I see
<bluesabre> missed that mail
<bluesabre> I'm going to guess it probably wont fix that build failure
<bluesabre> but maybe!
 * bluesabre hopes
<Unit193> Several of the plugins have the setenv error.
<Unit193> See the other plugin releases?
<bluesabre> not yet
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, ever found out what that missing transmission icon was?
<ochosi> (just remembered now)
<dkessel> ochosi: is the next meeting on wednesday evening CEST?
<ochosi> dkessel: sorry, no, i still need to reschedule
<knome> bluesabre, pick a license that works best for you
<knome> bluesabre, i can live with either
<knome> bluesabre, and i guess the schemes in -art, defaults in x-d-s (talk with ochosi)
<ochosi> yup, +1 on that ^
<knome> ooh ooh, docs upload
<slickymasterWork> but not all the translated strings though
<bluesabre> knome: thanks, https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/vivid/revision/282
<bluesabre> ochosi: I think Laney said it should be fixed by the latest gtk upload, haven't checked yet
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> great
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi: xubuntu-dark as the default in terminal?
<knome> yup
<knome> practically the same as the current theme with some improvements
<knome> bluesabre, what about the default mousepad conf?
<bluesabre> knome: working on that now
<knome> ok
<bluesabre> do we want to have xubuntu-light as the default mousepad theme?
<knome> yeah i guess
<knome> it's easy enough to switch to the dark one
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> knome: for the default font
<bluesabre> DejaVu Sans Mono Book
<bluesabre> but thinking we should use font size 10 instead of 9 for the editor
<knome> weeell ;)
<knome> i use 8
<knome> go figure
<knome> i guess i'm fine with 10 even though it's a bit brutal
 * bluesabre can't squint that hard
<bluesabre> I'll get these settings in and you guys can tweak them throughout the day to find the perfect xubuntu defaults
<bluesabre> knome: word-wrap on|off?
<bluesabre> or just default?
<knome> default
<bluesabre> we can also choose to display toolbar, statusbar, anything like that
<knome> as long as you set the default color scheme to xubuntu light, i'm fine
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> do you know which bug is the search both directions bug?
<bluesabre> or, I can just look that up
<knome> i had no idea we had one :D
<knome> or i forgot..
<bluesabre> found it
<bluesabre> so yeah, if there are any other desired mousepad defaults, let me know, will have these pushed to bzr in a few
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, it should be linked to the bugs-blueprint
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/558
<bluesabre> ochosi: Use dconf-editor and see if there are any other things you want to add to that ^
<bluesabre> and elfy, Unit193, etc
<ochosi> maybe "show full name in titlebar" would be useful
<bluesabre> that's one I find handy
<ochosi> k, let's put that one in then
<bluesabre> will do
<bluesabre> gotta go get ready for work now
<ochosi> line numbers maybe
<ochosi> and then that's it
<ochosi> (if those aren't on by default anyway)
<ochosi> cool, so we can mark another bug fixed then
<Greylocks> Seeing a problem with xbuntu vivid, when I close the lid on my laptop and later reopen it I get the unlock screen fine but after authenticating all I get is a blank screen.  I then have to hard restart to get back into xbuntu. Anyone else seeing this? Is it a known issue?
<GridCube> ._. its happening again?
<GridCube> Bug 1303736
<ubottu> bug 1303736 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303736
<Greylocks> GridCube: looking at the bug now...
<Greylocks> Only difference is that I have mine set to lock the screen, not suspend, but otherwise yes this is the issue I am seeing
<Greylocks> I updated yesterday, perhaps if I update again I will get the fix? Or does it have to be installed manually?
<elfy> that fix landed a long time ago - this issue keeps coming back, possibly another more recent not fixed bug, but there's so many different permutations of it I have lost my way with them
<Greylocks> Updating now, if it still persists I'll add a comment to the bug.
<Greylocks> Or should I open a new one?
<elfy> Greylocks: I'm not sure tbh - I would edge towards report it - with as much specific information on what hardware it is
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - just so you know, image is still not getting to desktop after Try/Install dialogue 
<elfy> bbl
<Greylocks> elfy: okay, it will have to be this evening I have to leave for work soon so I'll do it tonight.
<drc> The daily image for today actually working?
<drc> Apparently not...64bit daily would not boot thru to LiveUSB desktop, same a syesterday.
<elfy> drc: as you have found out for yourself - no it's not :p
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<elfy> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> is that since the systemd switch?
<elfy> yep seemingly 
<elfy> refuses to get to the desktop
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> that
<ochosi> 's not very cool
<ochosi> is it reported already?
<elfy> nope
<elfy> nope
<ochosi> and does it affect anyone else?
<elfy> not as such re reported
<drc> OTOH, upgrading appears to go smoothly? (this is a question, not a statement)
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> well i'm using vivid for a while now and the upgrade didn't break anything
<elfy> ochosi: I checked 4 others yesterday not affecting them
<ochosi> my laptop still boots
<elfy> ochosi: yea same :)
<elfy> should we expect to see xfwm showing in ps aux 
<elfy> you can get to the installer at least 
<ochosi> is that a question?
<elfy> ochosi: if you've some idea what package to report against then I'll do that from cli 
<ochosi> i mean yeah, xfwm4 should show up
<ochosi> what happens exactly when you hit try&install?
<elfy> mmm well ps aux | grep xfwm4 just reports the tty string
<elfy> ochosi: currently the install option from try/install dialogue
<ochosi> wait, i'm confused
<elfy> ochosi: and it was more a rhetorical question 
<ochosi> could you start from the top and describe the problem/bug?
<elfy> ochosi: hang on - I'll summarise
<ochosi> ty :)
<elfy> ha ha 
<elfy> boot image - at the first menu ignore it
<elfy> get to our install/try dialogue
<ochosi> so that is the one *before* ubiquity?
<elfy> choose try - nothing appears, xfwm4 does NOT show up in ps aux
<elfy> choose install - installer starts - install proceeds
<elfy> exactly the same if you choose Try or Install from the first menu
<ochosi> so the live session doesn
<ochosi> t start?
<elfy> ack
<ochosi> humm
<elfy> I am humming now - how long for? :p
<ochosi> haha
<elfy> you da boss :p
<ochosi> maybe we should try with an image of another flavor first to see whether this is a more general problem
<ochosi> (i really hope it is)
<elfy> ochosi: I tried MAte, Lubuntu and Studio 
<ochosi> oh, and?
<ochosi> same same?
<elfy> expected Studio to bellyflop but it didn't 
<elfy> nope - unfortunately this is just us ... 
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> what have we done wrong now?? :'(
<ochosi> i presume you don't get any worthwhile debugging output?
<elfy> ochosi: ok - so installing from the Install option - *appears* to work
<ochosi> kinda weird that we're having the inverse problem of b1 now
<elfy> however xfwm4 isn't reported in ps aux in tty1 there either
<elfy> ochosi: yea :(
<ochosi> well the question is: is the X11 session starting and is *anything* running
<ochosi> have you looked into your /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
<elfy> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10575615/
<ochosi> weird, why is upstart still running there..?
<elfy> mmm good point
<ochosi> nothing xfce related is running
<ochosi> so obviously something went rather wrong there
<ochosi> lightdm seems okay
<elfy> yep checked it's log - looks normal enough
<elfy> systemd is running, analyze gives a figure
<ochosi> does the Xorg.0.log say anything interesting at all?
<elfy> failed to load module vboixvideo 
<elfy> booting image with /sbin/upstart doesn't work either
<elfy> brb - checking something here
<elfy> and upstart doesn't boot *this* either
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> not sure
<ochosi> i guess i'll have to try myself
<ochosi> tonight I'm already booked, I might try and take a look tomorrow
 * ochosi still silently hopes things will just resolve by themselves
<elfy> heh
<elfy> well I'm just reinstalling upstart and letting that get upgraded rather than me doing it manually 
<drc> They will...sooner or later we'll all be dead and no one will ever know we had this problem :)
<elfy> then I'm off to annoy -quality
<ochosi> thanks for the fatalistic contribution, drc :)
<drc> no more so than your comment about "fixing itself".
<elfy> ochosi: ok this machine's ok now in both
<elfy> still not able to boot live with upstart 
<elfy> I'll see what gives in -qa 
<elfy> and check again tomorrow I guess
<ochosi> thanks elfy 
<ochosi> gotta run
<elfy> yep - have a good one 
<ochosi> u2!
<elfy> bluesabre: has something been touched that could cause this ? ^^ http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/10/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t16:59 and on for 30 minutes or so 
<elfy> hi brainvvash :)
<drc> OK...dl'd B1 iso, installed, attempted to update (thru gui.  Got "Failed to remove essential system package" error, and stopped.
<drc> Interesting times indeed :)
<krytarik> elfy: So, just tried ISO Live session with Xubuntu, Lubuntu, and Kubuntu. In Xubuntu, starting both Xubuntu and Xfce via LightDM fails, black screen; but startxfce4 works. Lubuntu works completely, as you said too; and installing xfce4 and starting it works there too. In Kubuntu, I just get a black screen with flicker fest here, and plasmashell crashes unrecoverably - might be related to my rather old setup though.
<Unit193> krytarik: Still have it up?  I could check logs. :P
<krytarik> I did, nothing in there.
<krytarik> Umm, thinking about it, I didn't check LightDM's logs though. o\
<Unit193> How about ~/.cache/upstart/ too? :P
<krytarik> Nope, neither. :D
<krytarik> I'm not rebooting into that again now though. :P
<krytarik> Unit193: On another note, could you please check if my suggested changes to language names stuff of the docs work - particularly the Makefile?
<elfy> krytarik: I'll grab kubuntu and have a look
<elfy> thanks for checking that out 
<krytarik> Sure.
<elfy> kubuntu boots
<Unit193> Sure, link again?
<krytarik> Yep, sec.
<krytarik> â http://paste.openstack.org/show/dVk8SfguxHghogSNHMKj/
<krytarik> and:  http://paste.openstack.org/show/eJKIveD6iPKkplJVj0Xo/
<elfy> and Gnome 
<elfy> only one I've not been able to try it Ubuntu
<elfy> only one that doesn't work is ours
<krytarik> Meh, that surely sucks. :P
<elfy> yep for sure
<Unit193> krytarik: Only thing that I don't like, the name of the file. :P
<krytarik> Yeah, you didn't respond to my question there. ;P
<krytarik> But the location would be fine?
<Unit193> It's too close to the other one, IMO, but yeah location makes sense.
<krytarik> Well, I specifically adapted it to that one - how about LANGNAMES then?
<Unit193> Ummm.
<Unit193> Sooo.
<krytarik> lol
<Unit193> No, I found what the problem was very quickly, but it doesn't make sense.  Haven't found the why.
<knome> he's back!
<knome> i mean i am
<elfy> he's back
<elfy> I mean he is :p
<knome> hehe
<Unit193> elfy: Did you talk to someone about this?
<elfy> not yet - other than balloons
<elfy> not anyone infinity like 
<Unit193> So what I quickly found after booting, initctl was missing, but upstart-bin was installed.  Something just removed /sbin/initctl.  I don't know what still, or why, sooo...
<elfy> so ... ?
<elfy> so leave it for the day ? 
<elfy> should upstart-bin be removed? I've got that here 
<Unit193> So, drop to a tty: sudo apt-get --reinstall install upstart-bin && sudo service lightdm restart
<elfy> ok - so that would get the live session going
<elfy> if you ignore Try and Install - it all appears to work, you can install - the end (in vm) gets graphic corruption after it says reboot
<elfy> rebooting - blue wallpaper and nothing else 
<elfy> have a look in 10 minutes 
<elfy> ok - so that's cooking, I'll see what happens after it's installed
<elfy> Unit193: so without being completely positive - would this be likely from something we've done or ... ?
<elfy> wb drc 
<drc> elfy: Did you see my post earlier about trying to updates a fresh B1 install?
<drc> and thanks :)
<knome> bluesabre, hullo!
<elfy> drc: yea I did thanks, food interrupted proceedings then krytarik and Unit193 made me think about something else :p
<drc> No rest for the Wicked :)
<drc> Any one else confirm/deny the problem? (I have had problems that 1) were of my own making and 2) peculiar to my machine.)
<elfy> seemingly not 
<elfy> drc: I've got b1 downloaded - will check in a vm shortly 
<Unit193> elfy: I don't see how, quite frankly.
<elfy> Unit193: thanks - enough for me :)
<elfy> I just want to see what occurs with this install - then I'll see if I can wake anyone up in -release
<elfy> Unit193: ok so after reboot - have to --reinstall upstart-bin and restart lightdm again
<Unit193> Mhmm, because you only installed it on the overlay.
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> anyway - noted in -release now
<elfy> reboots properly second time 
<elfy> drc: trying b1 now
<elfy> but it is only a vm 
<drc> ...baited breath....
<elfy> Unit193: no idea even what to try and report this against 
<elfy> knome: how's the slideshow going now? 
<knome> elfy, i looked at the general artwork yesterday, most likely getting into the content today :
<knome> )
<elfy> :)
<elfy> still not sure about the poll on the slide 
<knome> you?
<elfy> me 
<knome> well
<knome> what about this
<knome> don't add it and consider introducing it for 15.10
<knome> we would still have time to act before the LTS
<elfy> well - the reason won't change even if we leave it till 200.10 
<knome> lol
<knome> then don't add it now or later :)
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> on the other hand I guess those that aren't new would be able to answer it :)
<knome> yeahh...
<elfy> so that would be more info than we have now ... 
<knome> but how many of them look at the slideshow
<knome> i installed xubuntu today and didn't look at it...
<knome> okay okay, i'm an exception :P
<elfy> and as you said - others caught by media'ing it 
<elfy> well I only look when I'm specifically asked to once a cycle ... 
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah
<knome> did i already wonder it out loud
<knome> "i wonder if we could add some js so people could vote directly from the slideshow"
<elfy> Unit193: and that's why I hate asking questions in -release ... 
<elfy> don't remember you wondering that aloud
<elfy> Unit193: thanks :p
<Unit193> elfy: Hah, nice.  And sre.
<elfy> :)
<knome> elfy, technically:
<knome> 1) check if we can connect to xubuntu.org
<knome> 2) if we can, add buttons
<knome> 3) when buttons are clicked, send a get request to xubuntu.org
<knome> 3b) on the server, catch the "request" eg. the vote
<knome> 4) hide buttons
<knome> so basically people without internet connection can't vote
<elfy> and the chances of that this cycle ? 0 on a 0-1 scale? :)
<knome> 0.001
<elfy> ok :)
<knome> the problem with that is that we'd need to make sure the server can take those requests
<knome> in a meaningful way, that is
<elfy> yea
<knome> on the slideshow side, it doesn't need much
<knome> we can even disregard 1/2
<knome> then if you can't connect, then your vote just isn't sent
<knome> on a content level, i'd probably keep that REALLY simple, like one or at max two question with at max 3 predefined answers
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> given all that I'd prefer to revert to plan a - link to it from slideshow, social mediaise it a few times during the cycle
<knome> yeah...
<knome> but you aren't sure about plan a either?
<elfy> only in as much as would be catch people then - but advertisment is free
<elfy> and I'm surer about plan a than plan b :D
<knome> heh
<knome> i'm not sure about plan a either
<knome> so maybe we should take 6 months thinking time
<knome> slickymaster, your opinion?
<elfy> knome: given that we really only want to do this once for a while, don't want to go off half-cock with it
<knome> yep
<elfy> knome: also - we going to stop the current one soon? 
<knome> probably so :)
<elfy> got a response today :p
<knome> heh
<knome> how many total?
<elfy> 357
<elfy> 5 since the 1st March
<knome> yeaaah, we should probably either close it or social media it once more
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> maybe do one more shout then close it in enough time for us to look at the data before we start 15.10
<elfy> perhaps
<knome> yep
<knome> something like that
<elfy> maybe shout nowish - close it beta week 
<elfy> ochosi: just so you are aware - fix uploaded by infinity 
<ochosi> elfy: sweet
<ochosi> just as i had hoped!
<ochosi> go infinity!
<elfy> we've had plenty of interaction in that channel this cycle, being polite and friendly works wonders :)
<ochosi> indeed
<elfy> drc: dist-upgrading it now
 * drc has turned blue from holding his breath from earlier :)
<ochosi> poor drc 
<elfy> bah
<ochosi> what's on your mind?
 * elfy forgot again ... 
<elfy> drc: did you upgrade or dist-upgrade to sort out systemd? 
<drc> I installed B1 then did a regular/normal initial update (thru the gui). So, no dist-upgrade
<elfy> ok - doing cli dist-upgrade currently
<elfy> drc: xorg crash mid upgrade atm only
<drc> Equal opportunity failure :)
<elfy> mmm so has it hung setting up libc6 or not ... 
<knome> elfy, i had that yesterday or sth in vbox on regular package updates
<knome> elfy, i killed the process, booted and ran dist-upgrade again - apparently finished nicely then
<elfy> knome: drc had installed b1 earlier - and it crashed upgrading
<knome> elfy, i can't remember what my installation media was, but probably pre-b1
<knome> s/probably/likely/
<elfy> nope - I managed to kill it completely :D
<knome> heh
<elfy> completing it via recovery mode
<elfy> drc: I assume you tried that 
<drc> Nope...When it wonked out (after 2 installs, multiple rebooting and upgrade attemps), I just stopped.
<bluesabre> hey all
<bluesabre> elfy: so infinity took care of the issue then?
<drc> I had to kill nothing...I got the error message in a dialogue box...cliked OK and eveything update related died on it's own.
<elfy> bluesabre: yep - panic averted again :)
<bluesabre> woot
<elfy> drc: maybe try that 
<elfy> I'll check tomorrow as soon as I can obv
<elfy> but ... 
<drc> can't, I wiped everything and replaced what I had when I decided to install the B1.
<elfy> drc yea, but rebooted before upgrading? in which case you'll be able to get grub and recovery? 
<elfy> bluesabre: I just get a bit jittery when I've grabbed images from everyone and it's just us not working :)
<ochosi> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> elfy: understandably :)
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<elfy> drc: there'd have been kernel upgrades as well in the mix 
<ochosi> brb
<drc> No, I installed, booted to the B1 on the hdd, tried updtaing when it stopped.  I then rebooted (which went fine) but all updating attempts resulted in the same problem.
<elfy> knome: re exploratory then ... 
<elfy> drc: oh - so quite broken then 
<elfy> knome: I thought that it got media'd when I mailed list tbh 
<drc> Well, no...everything that was there worked fine, just no updating.  I thought about cli, but decided to report it first...and then I need to actually use the computer so I replced what was there before B!
<elfy> might be worth a poke on that though - package reports are moribund for sure 
<elfy> drc aah ok :)
<drc> And updating did not crash, it reported and exited quite gracefully :)
<elfy> :)
<knome> elfy, i was asking because the work item for that was marked "TODO"
<drc> The channel log should have what the error message was (I don't really remember)
<elfy> drc: did it actually say what it had problems with though? 
<elfy> [18:21] <drc> OK...dl'd B1 iso, installed, attempted to update (thru gui.  Got "Failed to remove essential system package" error, and stopped.
<drc> yup.  I had a choice of OK and something else that took me back to the general setting wndow.
<elfy> knome: ok - so that could be DONE, unless I change the item to "do it a few times during cycle" then we could media it again and make it INPROGRESS :)
<knome> elfy, i'd keep all the "ongoing" stuff outside the work items
<knome> elfy, because they end up just looking like there's a lot to do
<elfy> drc: yep - what I mean is - it didn't say it failed on package x 
<drc> nope :(
<elfy> knome: right - but then that means that the majority of items aren't going to be on blueprint - or shouldn't be
<drc> I looked for something like that, but if it was anywhere, I couldn't find it.
<knome> elfy, incorrect :)
<elfy> task doesn't go from todo to done often :)
<knome> elfy, heh, the point isn't to make it look like we've done a lot
<elfy> drc: yea - maybe something that should be a bug - wishlist or ... 
<knome> elfy, but if the item is something that is done the first time at the beginning of the cycle, and the last time at the end
<elfy> knome: I realise that 
<knome> elfy, there is no way to accurately track it, and it being either "TODO" or "INPROGRESS" is meh
<elfy> but - that's all b/p's give you - for detail we should use trello ... 
<elfy> :p
<knome> heh
<drc> elfy: Maybe, but it also maybe just me/my machine.  I did md5/checked the media and installed twice, same outcome all the way around.
<knome> well i'm fine with any other than the one that i moved outside the work items ;)
<elfy> anyway ... yes that was done - but maybe we should do more than once 
<knome> elfy, well, two; being: Ongoing tasks:
<knome> * Social media campaigns for QA milestones
<knome> * Social media campaings for QA contest
<knome> elfy, things like: [xubuntu-qa] QA articles for xubuntu.org: TODO
<elfy> mmm
<knome> elfy, are ok, but should be split to different items when/if we know what exactly is to be done
<elfy> well that's not going to be happening this cycle for sure
<knome> then postpone it :)
<elfy> THERE - FIDDLED WITH B/P'S
<elfy> sigh
<elfy> I need to run through testcases to check they still agree after 4.12
<elfy> then we can do another exploratory mail and media blitz
<elfy> drc: so eventually I got to a desktop ... 
<drc> with the daily?
<elfy> no 
<elfy> b1 and upgrading it 
<elfy> daily I got to desktop and installed and booted in the end - good old Unit193 :)
<Unit193> \o/
<drc> what was the secret to the update?
<elfy> dpkg from recovery menu drc 
<drc> So, it still doesn't work as advertised, but there is a work around?
<elfy> oh there's something wrong 
<elfy> but I guess we need to iron out the systemd and other issues - I'll give it run when I know the live is good to see what happens then - but I'll do it on hardware 
<elfy> I've had oddities where you get a crash report during similar - if you say cancel it just finishes, saying report seems to stop it all dead
<drc> My problem is 1) with only 2gig RAM, a VM is right outl 2) I have only one box (the patop) and I detest dual booting so it's a "all or nothing" situation for me.
<elfy> yep - totally understand 
<elfy> last cycle with the ram and cpu I had I hated running vm's 
 * drc has been trying for a while to get the Youngest Daughter to "loan" me one of her 9 computers, but.... :)
<elfy> ... 
<elfy> kids 
 * Unit193 runs VMs on 2G...
<drc> I actually know that dual booting is not near as hard as it used to be, but old memories last :)
<drc> Unit193: A 2gig VM or VM on a 2gig machine?
<elfy> drc: if you're using linux only then dual boot really just works imo
<Unit193> drc: On a 2G machine.
<elfy> the ONLY thing I do at cycle start is install grub to partition - so old one runs main grub
<drc> elfy: I know, but....
 * drc wonder what dual booting a LILO and a GRUB distro(s) would be like?
<elfy> bouncy with maggots? 
<drc> I was thinking more slimy with slugs.
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/.1504w/xubuntu-vivid.png
<knome> ^ since it's going to be uploaded soon anyway...
<elfy> too blue man
<bluesabre> phoronix | xubuntu wallpaper leaked, same as old wallpaper
<elfy> nice one knome :D
<elfy> bluesabre: lol
<elfy> knome: time for a comment on that one?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice one.
<knome> elfy, as bluesabre how quickly he's pushing that :D
<knome> *ask
<knome> but sure, comments are always welcome
<elfy> the leak?
<knome> oh
<knome> haha
<knome> no comments
<elfy>  knome change the angle slightly
<knome> not taking that bait :)
<bluesabre> uploading in a bit
<elfy> knome: lol
<bluesabre> but knome has until thursday to fix it
<bluesabre> so pester him!
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> bluesabre: really?
<elfy> is that a task? 
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> we should add that to the -artwork blueprint
<bluesabre> "pick on knome until UIF"
<bluesabre> knome: anything else for 15.04 artwork? https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/vivid/revision/283
<knome> bluesabre, no, looks good to me
<bluesabre> cool, I'll add the last changes for mousepad and push both -artwork and x-d-s then
<elfy> bluesabre: change blue for greyshade?
<elfy> :p
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I was thinking more pink or teal myself
<knome> greysabre
<elfy> bad bad elfy
<elfy> bluesabre: cyan !!!
<knome> -ide?
<bluesabre> -ade
<elfy> knome: nope 
<elfy> too much i
<knome> i thought that would have been cyan enough :(
<Unit193> elfy: You may have mentioned another issue with the ISOs, anything I should take a look at?
<elfy> Unit193: I think all part of the same parcel atm
<elfy> possibly an upgrade issue if you pick the wring day
<knome> wring?
<elfy> ye
<elfy> a
<elfy> that's like the wrong day but much more specifi
<elfy> c
<Unit193> Speaking of which, I need to try a core upgrade, yey.
<elfy> knome: like yesterday or tomorrow
<elfy> Unit193: lets make yey  a nay
<knome> heh
<Unit193> \o/
<elfy> given the hoohah
<knome> end k c end a e?
<elfy> knome: could be ,,,, Friday perhaps
<knome> thet wey it's mukh aesiar to follow tha diskussion
<elfy> Unit193: wait till live works?
<knome> elfy, you want to bore him to death?
<elfy> do an arch each again?
<Unit193> Might be a good plan.
<elfy> knome: do be brief ... 
<Unit193> elfy: Oh, well you don't have to of course, I kind of did make the mess after all.
<elfy> silly oldu nit 193 
<elfy> knome: trying for Thursday
<knome> what?
<elfy> you asked 
<knome> heh
<elfy> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-11
<Unit193> bluesabre: Last commit?
<bluesabre> Unit193: in what way?
<Unit193> Confused me with an after the fact changelog bundled with an undocumented change. :P
<bluesabre> which one was undocumented?
<Unit193> path-in-title?
<bluesabre> suggested earlier
<bluesabre> 07:27	ochosi	maybe "show full name in titlebar" would be useful
<bluesabre> 07:28	bluesabre	that's one I find handy
<bluesabre> 07:28	ochosi	k, let's put that one in then
<bluesabre> 07:28	bluesabre	will do
<bluesabre> don't mind kicking it back out tomorrow if needed
<bluesabre> nice thing about doing things a bit before freeze :)
<knome> i think Unit193 meant undocumented technically
<knome> or?
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/debian/changelog
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> woops, forgot to add that to the list
<bluesabre> >.<
<knome> d'oh!
<bluesabre> had it in the commit message, forgot to add to d/changelog :(
<bluesabre> d'oh indeed!
<Unit193> Doesn't bzr have something like  git dch -a  ?
<bluesabre> not even sure what that does in git
<Unit193> Always watching youuuu...
<Unit193> Creates the changelog from commit messages.
<bluesabre> oh nice
 * Unit193 needs to get bluesabre hooked on gbp.
 * bluesabre doesn't do drugs
<bluesabre> :P
<Unit193> !info git-buildpackage
<ubottu> git-buildpackage (source: git-buildpackage): Suite to help with Debian packages in Git repositories. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.6.15 (utopic), package size 238 kB, installed size 2930 kB
<Unit193> !info bzr-builddeb
<ubottu> bzr-builddeb (source: bzr-builddeb): bzr plugin for Debian package management. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.8.9 (utopic), package size 131 kB, installed size 914 kB
<Unit193> !info hg-buildpackage
<ubottu> Package hg-buildpackage does not exist in utopic
<Unit193> Awwh, it's called something else.
<bluesabre> !info mercurial-buildpackage
<ubottu> mercurial-buildpackage (source: mercurial-buildpackage): Suite to maintain Debian packages in Mercurial repository. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.10 (utopic), package size 234 kB, installed size 633 kB
<Unit193> Never used that one.
<bluesabre> cool and good to know
<bluesabre> :)
 * bluesabre wonders if Logan would like to do some no-change rebuilds
<Unit193> All the Xubuntu repos I have created are in git-buildpackage releases in 'upstream', tars in 'pristine-tar', and packaging+upstream in master.
<bluesabre> high-quality award to Unit193
<Unit193> Not really?
<Logan> hi
<Unit193> Logan: Howdy.
<Logan> hi Unit
<Logan> bluesabre: maybe :P
<bluesabre> hey Logan! :)
<bluesabre> there's just three xfce packages that need a rebuild and sit just outside the packageset
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1424887/comments/12
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1424887 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce 4.12 for Vivid" [Undecided,Triaged]
<bluesabre> libxfce4util 4.12 introduces a soname bump to 7, so those are blocking xfce 4.12 from landing in vivid
<Logan> bluesabre: doing
<Unit193> I also have a packageset application page if you feel like scribbling. :P
<bluesabre> Logan: I appreciate it :)
<nerdistmonk> i just punt kicked pulseaudio into low earth orbit
<Logan> bluesabre: all rebuilt :)
<Logan> sorry about the delay, I was test building all of them :P
<Logan> and checking Craigslist
<nerdistmonk> i wonder how many years are left before the choice of alsa or pulse fades away.
<bluesabre> Logan: great, glad to hear :)
<bluesabre> thanks for your help
<Unit193> bluesabre: See #x?  catfish.desktop: Name[en_AU]=à¶à·à¶§à·à·à·à·à· à¶à·à¶±à·à· à·à·à·à·à¶¸
<Unit193> < Unit193> Name[si]=à¶à·à¶§à· à·à·à·à· à¶½à·à¶´à· à¶à·à¶±à· à·à·à·à·à¶¸  looks like it was just copied.
<bluesabre> so there is a difference in Australian English
<Unit193> I never knew!
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Good on you, for being able to read that!
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> it doesn't look like that on Launchpad translations
<bluesabre> how odd
<bluesabre> I'll take a closer look tomorrow
<Unit193> Ah, alright.  Was going to say #x may be of interest right now.
<bluesabre> wow
<bluesabre> good luck with that one
<bluesabre> its like the text cell isn't redrawing
<Unit193> Nope, not it.  I'm tagging out as ENOIDEA.
<bluesabre> maybe turn compositor off
<bluesabre> anyway, gotta go to bed
<bluesabre> be back tomorrow
<Unit193> G'night!
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I think i fixed that, because i couldn't read it. might be only vivid or upstream though
<slickymasterWork> elfy, if want me I can share you with some of the testcase reviewing and correcting, re: rec-check Xfce4.12
<slickymasterWork> s/if/if you
<slickymasterWork> the poll inclusion is/was 'elfy's pet' so if he's having second thoughts on it; I'd be ok in dropping it for now, and mature the idea during next cycle
<slickymasterWork> knome, elfy ^^^
<slickymasterWork> imo, the big question is, does the extra data we might obtain from with will make any substantial difference from the poll we're already running?
<slickymasterWork> s/with/it
<knome> slickymasterWork, yep
<knome> i'm going to be merging the stuff without it
<elfy> slickymasterWork: second poll is completely different that the first 
<knome> yeah, i agree that the first poll would have been better for the slideshow :)
 * elfy starts winding back time 
<knome> lol
<elfy> :)
<knome> slowly with a crank
<elfy> yep - need to catch that moment 
<elfy> bluesabre ochosi and anyone else interested - image boots and installs 
<ochosi> \o/
<dkessel> yay \o/
<knome> nice!
<slickymasterWork> ok knome, but don't forget to check the paths in the slides as I haven't touched that
<slickymasterWork> elfy, did you saw my ping on the rec-check Xfce4.12?
<knome> slickymasterWork, sure sure
<knome> slickymasterWork, again, when have i let you down? :P
<slickymasterWork> never happened and I'm pretty sure it won't ever happen 
<slickymasterWork> just as reminder is all
<knome> ;)
<slickymasterWork> btw knome, as soon as you merge the slideshow, I'll be mailing the ML with a specific translation call for it
<knome> ok
<ochosi> jjfrv8: good news, finally finished the 4.10 docs and copied over the settings stuff you've worked on. thanks again for that!!
<drc> OK, haven't looked yet, but is the daily iso working today? Or upgrading from the B1?
<slickymasterWork> drc -> [13:44] <elfy> bluesabre ochosi and anyone else interested - image boots and installs
<slickymasterWork> I think it was infinity who fixed the issue
<drc> ah, thanks...I looked at the log, but must have just overlooked that (the color scheme on the web-log makes it hard to read sometimes).
<drc> I don;t recognize the nick, I'm assuming s/he's a ubuntu guy?
<slickymasterWork> yes drc -> https://launchpad.net/~adconrad
<drc> Just for my own edification, what was the problem (a one line answer is fine :)
<slickymasterWork> no clue drc
<slickymasterWork> maybe elfy can enlighten you on that
<krytarik> drc:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/10/%23ubuntu-release.html#t20:45
<drc> thatnks krytarik (that post was in a really hard-to-read-light-blue, so my eyes must have just skipped over it).
<drc> OK, today's daily does boot, install...nvidia install work...so far all is well.
<drc> Has anyone tested the staging ppa with the 15.04/systemd daily?
<elfy> drc: I've been running staging and systemd for a long time
<drc> elfy: Yeah, but after the problems with the iso/update, I was wondering if anyone tested the <new> iso install and the ppa?
 * drc is such a trusting soul :)
<elfy> I'd doubt that - can't see why the iso would be different than a running system with -staging
<drc> ok, I'm game, now to find that URL that tell me how into install it.
<elfy> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
<drc> Yeah, found it, thanks.
<ochosi> knome: how's the slideshow coming along? (and why are you discussing that in -ot instead of here?)
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> ochosi, working on it
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> how's the 4.12 business going? i saw all the necessary stuff got rebuilt..?
<bluesabre> ochosi: got a few more things to rebuild I think, infinity is going to rebuild what I miss
<bluesabre> should be 100% by tomorrow
<ochosi> awesome
<bluesabre> going to resume uploading in a bit
<bluesabre> being lazy and watching fullmetal alchemist
<drc> brotherhood or original?
<bluesabre> brotherhood
<jjfrv8> ochosi, ack on the docs copy. Thanks. Are there any others that need to be created or older versions ready for updates?
<ochosi> jjfrv8: oh, there's lots and lots to do
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-12
<nerdistmonk> worked up the nerve and yanked upstart-bin
<nerdistmonk> no ill effects from what i can see.
<Unit193> nerdistmonk: Except, you lost upstart user sessions and your indicators no longer work...
<nerdistmonk> i dont use XFCE indicator
<nerdistmonk> its already gone on my system
<nerdistmonk> Your going to have to refresh me on what upstart user sessions do, i don't consciously use them unless its one of those important background tasks.
<Unit193> xfce4-session used them.
<nerdistmonk> oh i see that thingy in "sessions and startup" that i always turn off.
<nerdistmonk> :P
<Unit193> Not likely, but anyway...
<nerdistmonk> yeah sessions i just looked xfce-session is the thing that saves every program/window you had open during logout.
<knome> Unit193, ping
<Unit193> knome: No!
<Unit193> :P
<knome> for what?
<Unit193> knome: Whatchaneed?
<knome> a pair of eyes
<Unit193> Mmmm, mine aren't great, only slightly better than elfy's.
<knome> that's fine
<knome> ok, ready soon
<knome> Unit193, https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1504
<knome> Unit193, so, does it look sane at all?
<bluesabre> Unit193? sane? hmm
<Unit193> The diffs look sane, though I do not like the indenting of http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1504/revision/669
<Unit193> bluesabre may have a point.
<Unit193> (I'm sure the rest of them are like that though. so. :P )
<knome> heh
<knome> pushing to main branch then
<knome> bluesabre, you like the monkey?
<knome> bluesabre, let me flesh out the memory
<knome> bluesabre, didn't somebody tell you they won't give you the upload perms for the slideshow, and that somebody who has the perms will do it on request?
<bluesabre> knome: yeah, I think that was the case
<knome> so do you want to poke people with that now or...? :)
<knome> was there a way to check who has upload permissions for a specific package?
<Unit193> ubuntu-core-dev, kubuntu-dev, ubuntu-desktop  people in those teams.
<bluesabre> ^
<knome> bluesabre, so you want to poke people about that?
<bluesabre> knome: I'll mention it to infinity
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> he was going to rebuild some stuff for me tonight/tomorrow
<knome> please also mention to update the translation templates
<bluesabre> so that goes along with it
<knome> and thanks
<bluesabre> oh... is that not part of it?
<knome> bluesabre, i didn't do it
<knome> i can look into doing it
<knome> but i've never done it :)
<knome> (i think)
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> oh
<knome> make pot
<Unit193> ok
<knome> ;)
<knome> guess that was too easy.
<knome> bluesabre, now the branch has the translation templates up-to-date too
<bluesabre> lol
<Unit193> So what's Xfce's plan with Xfwm4 and -DMONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP?
<elfy> Unit193: ftr - my eyes are fine - it's everyone else :p
<Unit193> Ahh.
<elfy> obvious really 
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-notifyd/0.2.4-3ubuntu1 ones like that you want to use build1, as autosync will then run on that package.
<Unit193> xfce4-dict, ah you already know this.  Nevermind then.
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'm learning as I go :)
<brainvvash> bluesabre, trusty users who upgraded to xfce 4.12 via ppa encounter the qt theming problem
<knome> well, aren't we telling them they use the PPA at their own risk?
<brainvvash> how is that possible?
<bluesabre> brainvvash: no idea
<bluesabre> obviously something used to tell qt what to do
<bluesabre> and now it doesn't
<brainvvash> it looks like that
<brainvvash> xfce4-settings?
<bluesabre> what they can do is install and set qt-config
<bluesabre> or not use a ppa
<knome> qt4-qtconfig
<bluesabre> probably something in xfsettingsd
<brainvvash> the question is, did Xfce change anything to trigger the theming issue? It always looked like qt was the culprit
<bluesabre> it probably did at some point
<bluesabre> good luck finding the commit in the last 3 years of development
<bluesabre> then again, I'm not sure if should be up to xfce to set the qt theme
<bluesabre> mate also has the same problem
<brainvvash> indeed
<brainvvash> trusty has xfce4-settings 4.11.2, utopic 4.11.3
<brainvvash> we noticed this issue in utopic, and x-d-s installs the skel qt config file
<bluesabre> right
<brainvvash> I'll check if other distros are affected too
<bluesabre> ok
<brainvvash> could be ubuntu specicifc
<brainvvash> specific
<bluesabre> knome: you may want to ping #ubuntu-devel folks if you don'
<bluesabre> t see a slideshow upload in the next hour or so
<bluesabre> infinity finished uploading the rest of xfce a few moments ago
<bluesabre> so that may very well land in vivid-release today
<knome> mhm
<bluesabre> I'm looking forward to getting to bug fixes once all these uploads are finally done :)
<knome> heh
<knome> i'm looking forward to the status tracker looking much better after all the uploads are done
<brainvvash> bluesabre, bug 1305294
<ubottu> bug 1305294 in upstart (Ubuntu) "QT uses incorrect theme when GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID is unset" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1305294
<brainvvash> setting this env var allows qt to determine the correct theme style, tested with "GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID=123 clementine"
<brainvvash> unity has GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID=this-is-deprecated
<brainvvash> bluesabre, there is also QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE=gtk
<brainvvash> could be used instead of putting the conf file into the skel directory
<brainvvash> actually, this one does not work 
<nerdistmonk> man that was a fast kernel update lol
<elfy> thanks nerdistmonk - I thought for a moment that I was dreaming yesterdays :)
<nerdistmonk> yeah, same here, i swore i just got a new version of 3.19 just last night
<elfy> yea - you did 
<nerdistmonk> oh well, i like new and shiny lol
<nerdistmonk> at least wine finally got updated
<elfy> wouldn't have a clue about that
<nerdistmonk> it hadn't been updated in 7 weeks (unrelated to this room obviously)
<elfy> never used wine
<nerdistmonk> i use it all the time, its a cornerstone for me.
<elfy> well - not for years
<nerdistmonk> Couldn't play simcity 4 without it, couldn't play alot of stuff without it.
<nerdistmonk> reboot time for nerdy
<drc> what is "oneconf-query"? I keep getting (ad odd times) this error.
<drc> again :(
<drc> To hell with it...now I have to have an UbuntuOne account to auto-report a bug?  I'm done with Canonical.  Sorry guys, I really like Xubuntu and the community (a lot), but am tired of the crap one has to put up from "higher".
<ochosi> !team | progress for V is looking great â good job, everyone! http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-flavor-xubuntu.html
<Unit193> Noskcaj: I know Corsac had some objection to the latest screenshooter, but what about taskmanager 1.1.0?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I've not heard anything. Do you want me to check or can you?
<Unit193> Well, just generally wondering if he had an objection, or if it was likely just missed.  I think it may have gone GTK3.
<bluesabre> Unit193: the latest taskmanager can be built with gtk2 or 3
<knome> bluesabre, yai, Riddell's going to handle the slideshow upload if you didn't pick that up yet :)
<bluesabre> knome: great
<bluesabre> I saw that all the packages finally landed today as well
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hmm.  So I'll just go with 'missed'
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> 'missed' indeed
<bluesabre> but thankfully not myst
<bluesabre> those games suck
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> ha
<elfy> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey elfy, how goes?
<elfy> ok thanks - you? 
<bluesabre> good
<bluesabre> just got home, and getting ready to eat dinner
<elfy> \o/ 
<knome> what are you having then? :P
<bluesabre> noodle bowl and a chicken patty
<knome> mhm
<elfy> I'm assuming it's not cat-pawed chicken 
<knome> surely yummy
<knome> elfy, who knows... ;)
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> the box says chicken
<bluesabre> and thats all I know
<knome> well if it is, it's possible that they are eating chicken-pawed cat tomorrow..
<bluesabre> ;)
<elfy> bluesabre: if you want some cat-pawed I've got some you can have ... 
<knome> bluesabre, oh noes, take away?
<knome> well anyway i'm happy that..
<knome> ...we have this important development discussion logged
<nerdistmonk> woah big pile-o-updates
<nerdistmonk> lol
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> very important
<bluesabre> bbiab
<elfy> hah
<knome> development of bluesabre's tummy :d
<bluesabre> yessir
<bluesabre> yum
<nerdistmonk> hmm it wants to remove nouveau during this update
<nerdistmonk> oh well i dont use it anyways, no guts no glory and all that jazz.
<elfy> dist-upgrade only wants to remove xserver-xorg-video-modesetting here
<nerdistmonk> over here it wants to gank the following xorg drivers: modesetting, intel, nouveau and 'all'
<nerdistmonk> its hard telling, just going to ignore it
<nerdistmonk> its likely a difference in repos because i use xorg edgers
<elfy> reinstalled all of those here
<elfy> aah right
<elfy> I'll remember that when sudoku doesn't work ... 
<nerdistmonk> i use the binary nvidia driver so its not a huge painful loss
<nerdistmonk> i quit using nouveau because it liked to crash the OS while gaming.
<nerdistmonk> made me think i was using mac os 9 while trying to play Xonotic lol, sysrq-reisub is your friend.
<Unit193> elfy: Same, -modsetting.
<nerdistmonk> xorg edgers may likely be causing the 3 extra drivers to popup on mine since its also giving me a new binary driver right now too.
<elfy> Unit193: good - not going nuts then :)
<nerdistmonk> exciting isn't it?
<nerdistmonk> you just never know what color undies apt-get is going to fetch for you each morning. :D
<nerdistmonk> 346.47 of the nvidia binary driver, oh goodie, i likely gained 2fps in a game i do not own yet. :D
<nerdistmonk> You know what i wished worked in xubuntu? The CPU Freq applet in xfce
<nerdistmonk> I had to just give in and write myself a script to change the cpu governors for me, because the cpu-freq applet isn't able to because it needs root privileges to do so.
<nerdistmonk> hmmm i see why nouveau got yoinked
<nerdistmonk> depends on xorg-video-abi or something like that.
<nerdistmonk> and theres no package by that name in my repos currently.
<nerdistmonk> *shrugs* meh it will fix itself eventually.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-13
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke
<Unit193> bluesabre: Howdy.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<bluesabre> so, reviewing https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xfce.html
<bluesabre> for the dh-autoreconf items, the delta is that we use atuoreconf?
<Unit193> Yes.
<bluesabre> ok
<Unit193> Center is the delta, right column is summery or whatnot.
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> so for garcon, I check the debian version of autotools, or is there another way to determine that?
<Unit193> Just on some of them, we do technically have a delta, but because Debian handles it in a different way it's alright.
<Unit193> Well, see what lintian says? :P
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Mousepad is UNRELEASED right now, so it'll wait for Wombat.
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> gtk engines will wait as well, UIF being today and all
<bluesabre> which lintian flags would alert me in this case for garcon? multiarch, or does this seem ok? http://paste.ubuntu.com/10588614/
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hit the changes file for checking the source and binary builds.  And no, outdated-autotools-helper-file would be it. :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks
<Unit193> Sure thing, cap'n.
<bluesabre> I like specific error messages like that :)
<bluesabre> source looks good for garcon
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Meh, well that one is for config.{sub,guess} and autotools-dev, but same concept.
<bluesabre> the rest are merges, will work on those later tonight/tomorrow
<bluesabre> thanks for the continued help Unit193 :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Any time!  Glad to be of service.
<bluesabre> need anything from me to get you moving along with packageset?
<Unit193> I'm pretty sure I need more actual sponsor sigs, but I can look for a date to sign up anyway.
<Unit193> Hrm, I had a problem entering the unlock password on plymouth-logo.
<bluesabre> tahts scary
<Unit193> Reset to see if it was vbox or something messed up, it used the text theme and worked fine.
<Unit193> Hah, someone goofed!  ca-certs is newer in utopic than vivid. :D
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Yeah, plymouth-theme-xubuntu-logo won't take my password.
<Unit193> Can someone else confirm?  Maybe on hardware?
<rww> Unit193: I had issues with Kubuntu doing that the other day, didn't take the time to track it down yet
<Unit193> rww: Ah, fun.  What happened when you tried?
<rww> Unit193: when I typed things nothing changed on the screen, and it didn't take my password at all
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/vivid/revision/278 had to update it for fsck and systemd.
<Unit193> cyphermox: So tried dracut with encrypted LVM and it worked, granted not as smooth as initramfs-tools, but considering it's an unsupported option it does pretty well.  Know you weren't really interested, but said I'd report back with that. :P
<slickymasterWork> knome, the installer-slideshow got uploaded
<slickymasterWork> the pot files are available -> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu
<knome> slickymasterWork, i know, didn't i mention it on this channel :P
<slickymasterWork> bad knome :P
<knome> well i did
<knome> 23:42  knome: bluesabre, yai, Riddell's going to handle the slideshow upload if  you didn't pick that up yet :)
<slickymasterWork> you know I can't see the backlof of -off over here
<knome> that's over 12 hours ago
<knome> in this channel, not offtopic :P
<slickymasterWork> I knew it was ridell and not infinity who would do it
<slickymasterWork> anyway setting up the call for the ML
<knome> yep
<knome> please mention not to translate apps...
<knome> eh
<knome> tags
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> knome, http://pastebin.com/fbJdat9U
<slickymasterWork> is it too much?
<knome> "a huge contribution" sounds a bit like you're telling lies
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll drop the adjective 
<knome> i would probably leave the [2] footnote off, just paste the url to the next line
<slickymasterWork> what about the rest of it
<knome> ready to be translated:
<knome>    URL
<knome> otherwise, it looks good
<slickymasterWork> translated at 
<knome> well
<slickymasterWork> isn't that way better?
<knome> if you want me to nit-pick
<knome> nobody knows what ubiquity slideshow is
<knome> mention "the installer slideshow"
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> you can even mention "..that greets the user the first time after they've started installing xubuntu"
<knome> or sth
<slickymasterWork> oki
<knome> 21 languages 100% translated
<slickymasterWork> pt isn't...
<slickymasterWork> ... yet
<knome> it is
<knome> oh
<knome> i'm looking at utopic
<knome> WAT
<knome> WHY
<slickymasterWork> last version of that paragraph knome :That time as finally arrived and I'm pleased to say that the Xubuntu installer slideshow, the package responsible for greeting the user when they start installing Xubuntu has been uploaded and ready to be translated at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu"
<knome> then only one is :D
<knome> that's ginnish...
<knome> yep
<knome> sounds nice
<slickymasterWork> what's ginnish?
<knome> that's finnish after a few gins
<slickymasterWork> and I do mean the significance of the word
<slickymasterWork> ahahaha
<slickymasterWork> send knome 
<knome> ok ;)
<slickymasterWork> care to tweet if you please?
<knome> yep
<knome> did you send to -users too?
<slickymasterWork> pleia2, can you g+ and facebook it, pleae ^^^
<slickymasterWork> no, just to -devel
<slickymasterWork> want me to send to -users to?
 * knome shrugs
 * slickymasterWork thinks is not on that mailing list
<knome> otoh, this is a small thing that's relatively quickly translated by current people who are translating
<knome> and otoh, it would be a good way to start contributing
<slickymasterWork> yeah, just a few strings
<knome> but then otoh, it's also a bad place to make stupid translations and mistakes
<slickymasterWork> right
<slickymasterWork> don't attempt the devil knome 
<knome> i guess finally, we *are* social mediaizing it too, so..
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm starting to wonder whether we should aim for (partial?) xfce compiled with gtk3 until the next LTS
<ochosi> or just stick to 4.12
<ochosi> somehow the idea of again going with a mix feels a bit meh
<ochosi> then again, the power manager is already fairly stable (although no new features have been added since the port, so we prolly don't lose much by sticking to 1.4.x, apart from symbolic icons)
<bluesabre> I'd say stable core, and updated goodies
<ochosi> yeah, xfpm is core though, so a good example :)
<bluesabre> xfpm is the peanut butter to our light-locker jelly
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> so a goodie then? :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> we'll probably change our mind as we go and port things
<bluesabre> "just look at the shiny new settings manager, xubuntu needs that"
<bluesabre> "oh wow, xfwm4 can do that now!? upload!"
<ochosi> yeah, possible
<bluesabre> somebody should take the terminal port, its a window with vte, it'd probably be super easy
<ochosi> there already is a patch in bz that does the gtk3 part i think
<ochosi> not the vte3 part yet though
<ochosi> feel free to take a peek at that
<ochosi> note though that term hasn't had a 4.12 release yet (lazy nick)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> but still, porting in a branch should be fine
<ochosi> term actually has quite a big source, considering it's "just a terminal"
<bluesabre> that's what happens with C
<ochosi> well, that and when you start adding features like the dropdown mode
<ochosi> fwiw, notifyd should also be fairly easy to port as it's already drawing everything with cairo
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> gtk3 transitions could make that one nice
<bluesabre> or annoying, hm
<bluesabre> don't let me do that one
<knome> lol
<elfy> morning peeps
<knome> hello eep
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure there's be gtk3 transitions tbh, but support for symbolic icons would be nice
<ochosi> or: not sure what gtk3 transitions you had in mind, i think notifyd just draws the whole notification window with cario, so very little toolkit interaction there
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> bbl
<bluesabre> ochosi: symbolic icons would be really nice
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<slickymasterWork> it's true indeed, the shoemaker's son always goes barefoot
<slickymasterWork> just noticed that lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings is still untranslated into pt
<slickymasterWork> :P
<slickymasterWork> 171 strings :
<cyphermox> Unit193: cool, good to know
<ganglere> Any reason a 14.04 install would boot straight into memtest after a dist-upgrade?
<nerdistmonk> well looks like microsoft sent another batch of bad chow to windows users
<nerdistmonk> an update causing reboot loops
<nerdistmonk> outch
<nerdistmonk> glad im on a nice stable development build of xubuntu.
<nerdistmonk> :D
<nerdistmonk> So how long should i keep these handful of systemd transistional compatibility libraries?
<nerdistmonk> libsystemd-daemon0, libsystemd-journal0, libsystemd-login0, all 3 say depreciated next to them.
<brainvvash> nerdistmonk, remove them
<nerdistmonk> ah ok then.
<brainvvash> apt-get autoremove  might do the job
<nerdistmonk> autoremove didn't show them, i just used synaptics to do a complete removal, nothing seemed to depend on them. so yeah.
<flexiondotorg_> Hello. How goes things in the Xubuntu world? 
<ochosi> good good
<flexiondotorg_> :)
<ochosi> 4.12 got released and it's in vivid now
<ochosi> how're things over @mate?
<flexiondotorg_> Woooohoooo! Go Xubuntu :D
<ochosi> yeah, go Unit193, Noskcaj and bluesabre :)
<flexiondotorg_> Yep, all good with Ubuntu MATE. Got a few sync requests that need actioning and a couple more I will file at the weekend.
<flexiondotorg_> But, then.....
<flexiondotorg_> I'm cruising to final baby ;)
<ochosi> great
<ochosi> congrats
<ochosi> our status is also pretty good: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-flavor-xubuntu.html
 * flexiondotorg_ is looking at ^^^^^^
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, I will have to find out how to use blueprints. Looks useful.
<flexiondotorg_> I'm using Trello at the moment because when unofficial, I had to have something.
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> we also tested trello
<ochosi> but then went back to blueprints
<ochosi> cause bugreport integration etc
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, Interesting. Why back to blueprints?
<elfy> integration with LP for the main part
<elfy> but we still use trello - just not team wide
<slickymasterWork> \o/ settings-dialog for lightdm-gtk-greeter fully translated
<slickymasterWork> ochosi, any idea on who might have the permissions to kick it in? ^^
<slickymasterWork> is sitting now in the import queue https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/trunk/+imports
<slickymasterWork> or knome ^^
<slickymasterWork> or bluesabre even ^^
<ochosi> sry, i've never handled translations on lp
<slickymasterWork> lol ochosi, you're the project driver
<ochosi> yeah, that's probably not a good idea then :)
<slickymasterWork> ahaha
<slickymasterWork> I think bluesabre might have a clue though
 * ochosi hopes so
<slickymasterWork> :)
<dkessel> slickymasterWork: when translating the information about mugshot in the ubiquity slideshow, i guess i better take the name that is displayed in the settings manager?
<slickymasterWork> yes dkessel, for consistency sake
<dkessel> okidokey
<slickymasterWork> :) danka
<dkessel> slickymasterWork: "to install Xubuntu _with us_" sounds strange to me... :p
<dkessel> we aren't really there when they install
<slickymasterWork> that's just a colloquial expression, a friendly one 
<slickymasterWork> sort of making the user feel part of a all 
<dkessel> hmm and in the part about local support channels, the translator could just pick the right ones for the translated language :)
<dkessel> instead of pointing them to an english list
<slickymasterWork> that's something already in out TODO list for next cycle dkessel :)
<slickymasterWork> s/out/our
<dkessel> slickymasterWork: ok :) another question: is the link which opens the desktop guide in the menu really called "official documentation" in english?
<slickymasterWork> Yes in the opening page it is
<slickymasterWork> if you click the Help button from whisker you can verify that 
<dkessel> but the user won't find it that way, but nvm :) i guess this gets the symbol of "help" in the slideshow?
<slickymasterWork> I don't quite recall it now, but you can always branch ubiquity.installer-slideshow and cd into int and then test run it
<slickymasterWork> dkessel: bzr branch lp:ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<slickymasterWork> then cd ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<slickymasterWork> and once there ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<dkessel> i guess i'll have to do an iso test the other day ;) do these get imported daily?
<slickymasterWork> these what? the translations?
<dkessel> slickymasterWork: yup
<dkessel> thanks for helping out a bit with the slideshow translations ochosi :)
<slickymasterWork> I think they aren't, at least the branch isn't set up to do it automatically
<ochosi> dkessel: lol yeah, 1 string, yay! :)
<slickymasterWork> and that's another thing we will try to approach/change for next cycle
<slickymasterWork> \o/
<ochosi> dkessel: i did that one string and then noticed you were on it, so i stopped again ;)
<slickymasterWork> lol a chef and his sous-chef
<ochosi> well, i really didn't want to mess with dkessel's work here ;)
<ochosi> so i went back to hacking on xfpm
<slickymasterWork> still with it ochosi?
<ochosi> yeah, working on it
<ochosi> it's looking pretty good though
<dkessel> ochosi: how would you translate "live, online support"? i struggled with this in the docs, too... "xxx, yyy UnterstÃ¼tzung"....
<ochosi> yeah, both those words are fine in german imo
<ochosi> pretty much part of german by now
<dkessel> i guess that works. just don't let the general german translation team see that ;)
<krytarik> "Support" too, for that matter.
<krytarik> The other one seems just weird by now imo.
<slickymasterWork> ochosi, btw our last meeting didn't actually happened, did it?
<ochosi> yeah, still need to fix that by setting a new one
<ochosi> wanted to wait for bluesabre and elfy to be around to set a date/time that works for them too
<slickymasterWork> ok, just checking
<dkessel> german is done :)
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> way to go dkessel 
<slickymasterWork> great dkessel 
<slickymasterWork> thanks for that
<dkessel> i should really do some work on the translated application names and stuff during the next releases... some are really strange,
<dkessel> and it bugs me that some names in the settings manager are still untranslated
<slickymasterWork> you'll have to recur to transifex on some dkessel 
<dkessel> yup
<dkessel> and then there is this orage developer who seems to have problems building a version with translation updates :p
<slickymasterWork> haha
<brainvvash> thunar crashed out of nowhere
<brainvvash> slickymaster, can you mark bug 1371961 as public please?
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1371961 could not be found
<dkessel> meh, the byobu launcher is broken in vivid. xfce-terminal start, complains it cannot start the child process, then hangs
<dkessel> the launcher runs "env TERM=xterm-256color byobu". run from another xfce-terminal instance, this works.
<dkessel> ochosi: ^ what do you think... file against xfce-terminal, or against the panel from which is start the launcher?
<dkessel> my guess is terminal, as launching from whisker causes the same result
<brainvvash> dkessel, probably already fixed upstream -> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/commit/?id=b4200c9bab9f60e61a100dd12d841c2588b360d8
<dkessel> brainvvash: that sounds like it
<bluesabre> hello all
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hello, updating xfce.html.
<elfy> evening bluesabre Unit193 
<bluesabre> hey Unit193, elfy
<Unit193> Howdy, elfy.
<elfy> how's Friday - warming up for either of you? 
<Unit193> Sadly, yes.
<bluesabre> a bit colder and rainy today
<bluesabre> but overall, not bad
<elfy> yea - we get that snow here bluesabre - warmed up and rain :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, right.  Updated.  Also turns out Adam didn't quite bump 'xfce4' correctly, but it's a minor thing so no matter. :P
<Unit193> ...Or I was reading a diff at 5 am, glossed over, and read it backwards.
<elfy> Unit193 knome - so what's this new testcase actually for? is it needed on the tracker? 
<knome> elfy, i don't know, but it's in the tracker...
<knome> elfy, it's the core testing we wanted to track at some point
<knome> iirc...
<elfy> knome: I thought similar
<elfy> Unit193: ? 
<elfy> :P
<elfy> not sure if we can add that to the 'not changing from cycle day 1' test we've got for -core
<Unit193> Uhh, I was supposed to write a testcase for the thing merged into the Ubuntu upgrader, so I did.
<elfy> it might have to join dailies
<Unit193> Erm..
<knome> elfy, why couldn't we?
<knome> i mean, technically...
<elfy> yea, but if we're putting more effort time into -core then shouldn't we just add that to dailes now - we can make them optionals
<knome> adding to the suite isn't a problemo...
<elfy> knome: afaik - -core was a singular thing, this new one would have to be the same
<Unit193> I'd still like to leave core as the redheaded step child.
<elfy> just seems a bit silly 
<knome> elfy, i don't think so
 * knome checks
<elfy> Unit193: because?
<Unit193> Because Xubuntu (desktop) should be our main focus, and we shouldn't try to split that focus too much.
<knome> elfy, surely we can add to the same test suite
<knome> or is it product
<knome> yes, product
<elfy> knome: product I thought - we couldn't do it at the time, Nick had to set it up
<knome> i can do that
<knome> i have admin perms
<elfy> then so should I - if I can't set up Xubuntu tests that's just ridiculous
<knome> no reason why it couldn't be in the same testsuite as well
<knome> i added it to the same test suite now
<elfy> mmm
<knome> and it'll limp along with the one-build-per-cycle
<elfy> knew it 
<knome> knew what? :D
<elfy> that we'd end up with core-upgrade looking more important
<knome> oh
<knome> heh
<knome> i'll change that...
<Unit193> bluesabre: places-plugin, screenshooter, whisker, and weather all just hit exp.
<elfy> weighting reallly needs to be sorted
<knome> elfy, isn't it good now?
<knome> :P
<elfy> yep
<knome> btw, should we change minimal -> core
<elfy> why packages won't work like that ... 
<knome> it probably does
<knome> ;)
<knome> let's fix this and then move to packages.
<elfy> knome: no - it doesn't - hence the bug report for it 
<knome> "Xubuntu Core Install" and "Xubuntu Core Upgrade" ?
<elfy> yep
<knome> just a second while i update production and branch
<knome> done
<elfy> knome: quick question once you've done that 
<knome> yes?
<elfy> something different
<elfy> ish
<knome> where?
<knome> :)
<knome> what?
<elfy> ochosi and I talked a while back re this - I added to blueprint and postponed - but if it's not feasible I'll not do anything next cycle 
<elfy> knome: give me time ;)
<knome> sure..
<knome> (this is IRC, you can talk over me... :P)
<elfy> so - we have LP and tracker, is it possible to grab tracker results and then have a x.org page that updates from that - without someone doing anything to update it? 
<knome> mmh...
<knome> well, the tracker has an API
<elfy> knome: yea - but if you don't know to wait - you'll start talking about the Singalese translation that's only at 1%
<elfy> with slickymaster 
<elfy> :D
<knome> ;)=
<elfy> knome: bear in mind this has to be something that just updates - not something one of us has to do something to 
<knome> yes
<knome> what exactly do you want to pull from there?
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks
<elfy> not sure yet - not completely sure how http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/testers grabs it's information 
<elfy> because it IS infact wrong :)
<bluesabre> and yeah, ubuntu has xfce 4.10 with 4.12 components, experimental has xfce-4.12 with libxfce4util6
<knome> elfy, the API doesn't include tester information
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Of course, just doing my civic duty.
<bluesabre> good sir
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> elfy, but i think dkessel is working on the tracker, so...
<knome> well, it's possible that you could pull that info off
<knome> but that wouldn't be very efficient
<knome> would be much better if the tracker itself could show you the numbers you need :)
<elfy> knome: yea
<elfy> I do not trust it - certainly not enough to say - stickers to this one please pleia2 
<knome> mhm, well, same with manually building data - we have to base our results on the tracker data :)
<elfy> knome: yea - I base it on a physical count of reports 
<elfy> which is a pita when I have to do 4 months ... 
<knome> yes
<elfy> that's not going to happen again though obv - as I just need to do March and April now
<knome> i'd investigate the tracker/dkessel direction before doing anything else
<elfy> but as it is what it is personally I think it's QA Lead responsibility 
<elfy> ok, perhaps I'll talk with dkessel first about what I 'need'
<knome> yep, and feel free to ping/CC me :)
<elfy> even if I can do it with a script I guess
<knome> can talk about the technical implementations we want with him
<elfy> knome: ack - mostly it was talking to you whether there was an 'easy' way 
<knome> mhm
<elfy> seemingly not - so :)
<knome> well the easy way is to add the feature to the tracker
<knome> not only for us...
<elfy> the feature is there - doesn't appear to be accurate 
<knome> it is more or less trivial to implement that as long as you know the QA codebase
<knome> then file a bug that it isn't accurate :)
<elfy> I know why some is like it is 
<elfy> we start b1
<elfy> 30 people test images
<elfy> image rebuild
<elfy> 0 people have tested b1 - they end up as 'dailies' 
<elfy> as far as we're concerned - those people DID test b1 
<knome> mhm...
<knome> tjat
<knome> ...
<knome> that's a good question
<elfy> yep
<knome> i wonder if the "was something" status is tracked
<knome> apparently not
<elfy> there could be sfa up with our image - rebuilt as a global thing
<elfy> it's the human side of *us* smoketesting a few images and marking ready for release 
<knome> yep
<elfy> just that currently it's difference between me saying 'foo gets sticker' or we send them to bar instead
<knome> yep
<elfy> that said - I do keep records here of what's being tested, what's hardware, etc 
<knome> right:)
<elfy> so - can do that monthly *shrug*
<knome> hah
<elfy> I know who's reporting things generally 
<elfy> but would be nice to not have to coutn them I guess :D
<knome> agreed
<elfy> I'll talk to dkessel - during the rest of cycle
<knome> yep
<knome> so what's the packages weight bug?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Were you intending to file a bug for whisker about adding a --switch-cmd or merging your patch upstream?
<elfy> knome: look at http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/testcases
<knome> ok
<elfy> I would want to have testuite a/b/.c/d above optional stuff 
<knome> aha
<elfy> ... looking for the bug
<knome> elfy, so yeah, that's different
<knome> i guess
<elfy> bug 1317231
<ubottu> bug 1317231 in Ubuntu QA Website "Unable to set order of testsuites in product on package tracker" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317231
<knome> elfy, yep; testcases can have order, testsuites not
<elfy> yea - fail 
<knome> that's ok :)
<elfy> no - it's not lol
<knome> let's just make dkessel fix it ;)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> poor old dkessel - see's pings, see's knome and elfy talking - facepalming for a gold medal ensues
<knome> surely;)
<knome> gah
 * knome is cleaning up files
<elfy> makes sense to me - I might want to list internet tests before games for instance
<knome> hehe, yes
<knome> the obvious workaround is to prepend every test suite with a number
<knome> 1 Test suite for Internet
<knome> or whatever
<bluesabre> Unit193: hm?
<elfy> yea - but it's not that number knome - it's the number the testsuite gets
<knome> oh
<knome> then fail :D
<elfy> yep :)
<bluesabre> ah, gdmflexiserver
<bluesabre> I think I tried to upstream that to debian, :\
<elfy> bet you had more luck than me - Unit193 pointed me at quilt for something
<elfy> that was hilarious ... 
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> quilt's not too bad
<bluesabre> just gotta get it set up right the .quiltrc
<elfy> right - I just some bizarre message about something being under the quilt
<elfy> gave up lol
<bluesabre> lol
<elfy> I can cope with the ridiculous spelling of relevant in zsync ;)
<elfy> really - people should just check stuff before feeding it to the world :D
<slickymaster> elfy, can I be lazy and not read the backlog to ask you what is the meaning of "with slickymaster"?
<elfy> yep - you can 
<slickymaster> and... ?
<elfy> I wanted knome to listen to me - so while I was sorting out that - you got included - you can ignore it :)
<elfy> as long as you're not worried about Singalese only being at 1% :D
<slickymaster> :)
<elfy> I actually meant Sindarin - but it's too late now ;)
 * slickymaster doesn't even know which country speak that idiom 
<slickymaster> shame on slickymaster 
<elfy> I'm really pleased - it's not a real one afaik :D
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> bluesabre, did you saw my almost ping to you?
<slickymaster> elfy, now I'm curious and I'll have to read the backlog :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hah, know on what grounds?  And if that got rejected, what do you think the chances are http://paste.openstack.org/show/Grg85pTS8C5fl0uPMVUU/ would too? :P
<bluesabre> slickymaster: yeah, not quite sure how that project has its translations set up... going to poke it tonight
 * slickymaster bows to bluesabre 
<bluesabre> Unit193: it might have been one of those things Corsac ignored or forgot :)
<slickymaster> brainwash and brainvvash, done
<slickymaster> knome, do you have any idea on how lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings has its translations set?
<knome> why would i?
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> because fi one manages to be 100% complete knome, and you use to make use of poedit, not Rosetta knome :P
<slickymaster> btw pleia2, did you get disclose in our media channels https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-March/010666.html
<slickymaster> ?
<pleia2> slickymaster: no, sorry, on it now
<knome> slickymaster, i translated the missing few strings via LP
<knome> pleia2, i tweeted
<slickymaster> thanks pleia2 :)
<pleia2> knome: thanks
<slickymaster> knome, saw my answer to why would you>?
<knome> slickymaster, what?
<knome> you lost me...
<elfy> pleia2: prior warning of a package test push after 4.12
<slickymaster> because fi one manages to be 100% complete knome, and you use to make use of poedit, not Rosetta knome :P
<elfy> pleia2: I'll mkae sure to send to -testers though
<knome> slickymaster, yes, but i used rosetta this time
<slickymaster> on the lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings translations
<knome> slickymaster, it's possible i did the earlier ones via LP too
<slickymaster> bahhhh knome
<knome> :)
<slickymaster> now you let me down
<knome> haha
<knome> i can try to look at it in a minute
 * slickymaster thinks he'll have to copy paste his poedit file into LP during the weekend :P
<knome> https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/trunk/+pots/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/pt/+upload ?
<knome> slickymaster, ^
<knome> if you did that, as it looks like, then somebody needs to approve that
<knome> i can't
<knome> but i'm relatively positive bluesabre can
<pleia2> ok, all social mediaed
<slickymaster> I did knome, and my file is sitting in the import queue -> https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/trunk/+imports
<slickymaster> thing is I don't have the permissions to set it as imported
<slickymaster> thanks for that pleia2 
<pleia2> elfy: brain explode, I'll read+process when it goes to testers :)
<knome> slickymaster, likely because you aren't a member of the owner/driver
<pleia2> also need to make a note to tell people about stickers again on monday for March fun times
<slickymaster> exactly, ochosi os
<pleia2> it's March now, right?
<knome> pleia2, yes... for 14 days
<elfy> pleia2: yep
<slickymaster> but is in the dark regarding that knome 
<slickymaster> ochosi, I mean
<knome> slickymaster, i'm sure the owner can approve as well.
<knome> slickymaster, the owner is a team where for example bluesabre belongs
<slickymaster> that's what I'm telling you knome, the project driver is ochosi 
<knome> yes...
<knome> so can't bluesabre approve it?
<slickymaster> bluesabre doesn't know, ochosi doesn't knome 
<bluesabre> I can approve it
<slickymaster> lol know
<bluesabre> but is the filename wrong?
<bluesabre> or was that generated by lp?
<slickymaster> no, bluesabre 
<slickymaster> why you ask that?
<knome> bluesabre, probably generated by LP
<bluesabre> usually its just pt.po
<bluesabre> I'll approve it
<bluesabre> we'll see what lp does then
<knome> bluesabre, i would imagine there is only one translation template, and as long as you select the right language, you're fine.
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/td0GTDc.png
<slickymaster> that's the one bluesabre 
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> marked approved, it should probably sync sometime soon
<slickymaster> lol, is it me or all this seemed a conversation of madmen
<slickymaster> thanks bluesabre 
<bluesabre> we're all madmen
<bluesabre> (and women)
<slickymaster> great, it's imported now bluesabre 
<bluesabre> sweet
<slickymaster> thanks
<bluesabre> np
<knome> bluesabre, not mad men?
<bluesabre> that's ochosi
<knome> only him? :(
<bluesabre> :P
<bluesabre> knome: you seem pretty sane most of the time
<bluesabre> except on -offtopic
<knome> bluesabre, you didn't get the reference?
<knome> bluesabre, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0804503/
 * bluesabre doesn't get references
<slickymaster> lame  knome 
<slickymaster> not the TV show
<bluesabre> haven't seen that
<knome> slickymaster, lame? it's a great tv show
<slickymaster> I said, not the TV show
<slickymaster> the obvious reference
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-14
<dkessel> Uh, so many pings
<dkessel> elfy: what do you think is wrong about the tracker numbers?
<knome> dkessel, if you can't order the testsuites to the order you want (but it's specified by the ID, eg. order of input), you might end up having low-priority testsuites showing higher
<knome> dkessel, even alphabetical sort would be better...
<knome> but of course, if you implement something, please implement the weight like with testcases
<dkessel> knome: ok so i checked - the testsuites look alphabetically sorted already on http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/testcases , and also on my development VM
<dkessel> but i agree, ordering with a weight might be better
<knome> i haven't checked if that's the case; but are you sure they aren't just created in alphabetical order?
<dkessel> i just created some testsuites in non-alphabetical order ("w" before "a"), and "a" got sorted before "w"
<knome> ok
<knome> how hard do you think it would be to implement the weight sorting though?
<knome> i mean it's at most one more DB column
<knome> also the other question
<knome> when you test beta1, but that image is then rebuilt, it's considered a "daily" test after that
<knome> eg. the beta1 tracking status is lost
<knome> i wonder if it would be possible to keep that, to get full results for milestones
<dkessel> i think it wouldn't be hard to implement the sorting. (saying that without looking at the code, though)
<brainvvash> slickymaster, thanks
<knome> dkessel, yeah, i guessed so
<dkessel> knome: ^ - and: i don't know how the builds get added to the tracker. i guess there may be some integration with some build system going on?
<knome> dkessel, potentially, but i'm not sure if it's unrelated
<knome> dkessel, the only thing that matters is that if a specific build was added for beta1, tests conducted agaisnt it should be always be counted towards beta1 tests
<knome> dkessel, not daily tests if there happens to be a newer build; which is what currently happens
<knome> dkessel, to put it otherwise: in the tester statistics, only the last milestone build counts towards the tests made for the milestone
<knome> bluesabre, wasn't bug 1390933 fixed?
<ubottu> bug 1390933 in mousepad "Find and Replace Search Direction defaults to down" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1390933
<knome> Unit193, ping me when you're around
<dkessel> knome: well - i would have to look at the database and at the way the statistics get calculated to say anything useful about that :)
<knome> yep
<knome> bbl
<dkessel> Now this is great. First quasselclient worked, but now it just decides to Hang upon Start, without showing any window
<dkessel> OK so that seems to be caused by the not working tray icon
<dkessel> is xubuntu also affected by this quassel bug because we also use the indicator framework? http://bugs.quassel.info/issues/1269
<dkessel> it seems so, because i don't get a tray icon...
 * Unit193 checks if he's round, looks more square.
<Unit193> knome: Jello.
<knome> Unit193, what's your opinion on the current "seeds & composition" section on the strategy document? would you be willing to work on a work draft with me on it?
<Unit193> We're going to have a difference in opinion there, I think, but yeah that needs to be updated or followed correctly. :P
<knome> well i don't expect everybody else to agree either...
<Unit193> New orage in Debian, biggest change: 01_support-filename-desktop added, update Exec line to support passing filenames, since we announce support for the calendar mimetype.
<krytarik> slickymaster, Unit193: I've drawn up 'website' and 'startpage-website' targets for the main Makefile of the docs:  http://paste.openstack.org/show/cLVUZb3GFqLIZ2Z3MHdI/ -- And, lacking a better solution right now, my version of the docs is currently available here:  http://www.cellrabta.pk/xubuntu/docs/
<Unit193> knome: So what's up?
<Unit193> krytarik: Any reason for REVNO?
<krytarik> Unit193: It's only included if you specify it.
<Unit193> Yes...
<knome> Unit193, well that was up...
<knome> Unit193, do you want to start working or it or rather pass?
<Unit193> knome: I can try to do my best.
<knome> Unit193, i'll be in touch with you shortly then
<Unit193> krytarik: I have no objections of course, means I can trim down my own script.
<krytarik> Unit193: Well, I specifically got that from the version you're hosting yourself. ;P
<Unit193> Right, but that's a "daily build" :P
<Unit193> And, I meant over all.
<krytarik> Yep, nothing wrong with that.
<krytarik> Unit193: Ah, now I got what you mean there. :P
<bluesabre> knome: yeah, not sure why it didn't close itself, http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/x/xubuntu-default-settings/xubuntu-default-settings_15.04.4/changelog
<bluesabre> gotta run again, back later :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, When you're back, can we sync the gtk engines from debian/exp?
<Unit193> Pretty sure he doesn't have access.
<Noskcaj> oh
<Unit193> We could just have Noskcaj sneak http://paste.openstack.org/show/Grg85pTS8C5fl0uPMVUU/ on next package upload! :P
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Have you asked corsac about it?
<Unit193> Of course not, it doesn't benefit him nor Debian so I don't see him liking it. :P
<Unit193> Meh, source package likely wouldn't be accepted in Launchpad, because while the binary is newer the source wouldn't be, I believe.  Lovely.
<Unit193> Some of the other delta could be --derivs-from Ubuntu, but again wouldn't likely be accepted upstream.
<_matte88> hi everyone!
<Unit193> _matte88: Hello again.
<_matte88> hi Unit193! Do you remember of me?
<Unit193> You may have been here before, but you asked a question about how to help the Kubuntu team in #kubuntu, and I pointed you to their development channel.  Though not sure you got the message.
<_matte88> oh ok! Because I posted on this channel long time ago asking the same thing about xubuntu :)
<_matte88> but no, I didn't get your msg
<Unit193> As far as programming for Xubuntu, we create a few python programs, but for the most part we use Xfce so if you'd really like to help is in terms of programming, helping our upstream would go a long way.
<_matte88> that's fine for me
<Unit193> sidi: You alive?
<sidi> Unit193, yeah
<sidi> about to shower n go, 1h late for party
<Unit193> Hah, oh well.  I'm pointing _matte88 to upstream Xfce, figured you could give him some heads-up.
<ochosi> _matte88: any concrete idea what you would like to contribute to?
<sidi> oh right :-)
<ochosi> (if not, looking into bugreports and trying to fix some easy ones is usually the best starting point)
<sidi> if new to coding / FOSS, there's https://wiki.xfce.org/contribute/easybugs for sharpening one's teeth. Else ochosi will know what's valuable / urgent right now
<_matte88> actually no, but I guess that starting to fix some bugs would be a good way to understand how you guys work
<_matte88> I agree
<sidi> sure thing _matte88 
<sidi> feel free to hang out in #xfce-dev too
<sidi> wrt. easybugs, we have someone actively working on the screenshooter UI, so only the bugs listed on the top need attention
<_matte88> you mean like "Missing trailing ";" in mimelist of desktop-file"?
<_matte88> (I'll be back in a moment, just rebooting)
<ochosi> sidi: you should probably just mention that on the page instead of mentioning it here to everyone ;)
<Unit193> Miiiight help to make #xfce-dev not +s :P
<_matte88> here i am
<Unit193> knome: So, not today then?
<knome> oh
<knome> well i can do that in some minutes
<knome> need to go through this dir first...
<knome> Unit193, hallo? PM?
<Unit193> I was doing stuff, of course.
<knome> can't be!
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-15
<Unit193> Eww, mousepad's buttons. :(
<Unit193> Maaaaybe GTK2 would be better...
<krytarik> Unit193: This is what I ended up with in the morning reg. the translators stuff of the docs, btw:  http://paste.openstack.org/show/7DMCx9TqQH8VKM0HLyTs/
<Unit193> krytarik: You reversed them.
<krytarik> Well, the logic was rather messed up before too. :P
<krytarik> There you go, fixed the ordering :P - http://paste.openstack.org/show/whAnJDzdZgFA0asVL9Q0/
<krytarik> Nope...
<Unit193> Was going to say.
<krytarik> So there, finally I hope! :P - http://paste.openstack.org/show/edIGAH6VAeUZeqx10mRc/
<krytarik> So yay for checking pastes before linking to them, I guess - sorry about that. :P
<Unit193> If you're going to fix the style, fix it in the other script(s) too.  I used the same style as was already there.
<Unit193> Oh right, perhaps I should say the new thunar-dropbox-plugin is in exp.
<krytarik> Not that the script part of the diff is particularly usefull either. :D
<krytarik> * useful
<krytarik> Lovely.
<krytarik> And nope, only if I'm already at that anyway, I guess. :)
<krytarik> And since I've basically changed almost every line there anyway, I thought I might as well fix the styling there.
<krytarik> Or rather, adapt it to my taste.
<krytarik> Here is the rest of my current, unmerged changes, btw:  http://paste.progval.net/show/mT3WT8kN4OIbncHQCHFu/
<krytarik> (And no, I didn't figure a way to streamline the l10n stuff eventually.)
<Unit193> That's...long.
<Unit193> What about the part that removes the silly 'the section called'?
<krytarik> That's it.
<krytarik> Unit193: And yep, had to use the alternate pastebin. :P
<Unit193> mhmm, too long.
<Unit193> So, "Disable tooltips on links"?  Nice.
<krytarik> Yep.
<krytarik> For that matter, this is what I've written into my notes file for that: "Normalize appearance of cross references both throughout the various languages, and towards other links."
<krytarik> knome: The change on the translators stuff would mean that it also shouldn't fail on building the package anymore.
<krytarik> slickymaster, knome: Would it make sense to you to just let it build the startpage for the installed version in the document root too? I think it would.
<knome> i guess i don't have a strong opinion, as long as it works
<krytarik> Unit193: There you go - lovely :D - http://www.cellrabta.pk/xubuntu/docs/unmerged-changes.html
<krytarik> Also, slickymaster, knome: ^
<krytarik> knome: So, the other credits in the docs are meant to refer to LP stuff as well, no?
<krytarik> Like, user name, specifically.
<krytarik> Because quite a bit of those have either changed, or weren't correct in the first place.
<krytarik> Also, shouldn't those be sorted alphabethically too?
<krytarik> * alphabetically
<krytarik> slickymaster: ^ as well, when you come back.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-14
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yeah I use  gpg-agent --daemon --write-env-file "${HOME}/.gnupg/gpg-agent-info"  somewhere else.
<knome> bluesabre, flocculant: ?
<knome> kryten, you still around?
<kryten> Yes.
<knome> you running xenial?
<kryten> Nope.
<knome> bah
<knome> bluesabre, when you set --> APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "!"; <-- in /etc/apt-/apt.conf.d/20auto-ugprades, the "When there are security updates" dropdown box gets grayed out in Software & Updates -> tab Updates
<knome> bluesabre, the stupid thing here is that it doesn't show any value there, so the user can't confirm they are installed daily unless they know to look in the aforementioned file
<knome> ahhh, bug 1018367
<ubottu> bug 1018367 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "Unable to remove unattended-upgrades" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018367
<knome> not old or anything
<knome> ohh, a very good comment there "Is there a massively effective corporate (MS?) sabotage unit working inseide the core of linux community?"
<knome> and yes, there it is, reported by flocculant in bug 1554099
<ubottu> bug 1554099 in software-properties (Ubuntu Xenial) "Changing what action for security updates unusable" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1554099
<knome> :D
<knome> slickymaster, do we want to keep https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation ?
<flocculant> knome: am now - and I see you found stuff
<knome> yep
<knome> that was it
<flocculant> :)
<dkessel> wow, i would have thought the tons of package installation errors on an upgrade to be gone at this time in the cycle.... :/
<flocculant> dkessel: nope
<flocculant> when it's not broken I'll mail the list about testing it again :)
<dkessel> ok, reverting that VM then....
<flocculant> anyone trying to upgrade 14.04 to 16.04 is in for a bumpy ride :p
<flocculant> last I checked 15.10 to 16.04 worked
<dkessel> well i just tried 15.10 to 16.04 ;)
<flocculant> dkessel: it failed? 
<flocculant> 2 weeks ago 15.10 to 16.04 was working
<dkessel> flocculant: yeah, i got all those systemd, init, xubuntu-desktop, etc. installation errors
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> davmor2: were you getting upgrade fails on 15.10 to xenial ?
<davmor2> didn't get that far but I would imagine it would hit a similar issue
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> 2 weeks ago it was working - today not it seems 
<flocculant> at least a vanilla vm install did
<davmor2> flocculant: yeah but that was the same with 14.04 it was working a week or two before feature freeze and then died horribly afterward
<flocculant> davmor2: I've not got 14.04 to upgrade ever
<flocculant> though it's not something we test really regularly
<davmor2> indeed
<flocculant> well - that's a stupid comment ... can only do it once every 2 years anyway lol 
<davmor2> :D
<flocculant> dkessel: can you get at logs? 
<flocculant> if not I'll do something - would at least like to know where it fails and if it is the same
<davmor2> flocculant: and between 10.06 and 12.04 and 14.04 there weren't as many lib changes and abi breaks as there are from 14.04 to 16.04 either
<flocculant> yea
<davmor2> gcc, bluez, amd gfx stack, nm when that lands and the list goes on
<flocculant> he he he 
<dkessel> flocculant: logs are gone... just rolled back the vm
<xubuntu84w> i need to make a bootable .iso of my usb drive live session. dd worked fine in ubuntu, but not in xubuntu.  how can i do this?
<flocculant> the price of progress - grey hair or if really unlucky bald head 
<flocculant> xubuntu84w: #xubuntu is the support channel
<xubuntu84w> bbut it's for rolling a distribution
<flocculant> but if it doesn't work in xubuntu then I'd wonder what was going on as that deep - they are the same thing
<xubuntu84w> i'm booting into a live session, making changes for my company, then turning that session into an .iso to be used again
<flocculant> remastersys type thing - suppport is best for that 
<xubuntu84w> it isn't recognized as an .iso like when the dd command is done in ubuntu, but recognizes it as a raw dd image
<xubuntu84w> okay
<flocculant> and to be honest #ubuntu has more eyes if it's slow in #ubuntu
<knome> flocculant, asking you again about the testing pages on the wiki - what do you want to do with them - should i just move them to the new wiki?
<flocculant> knome: hardware profile is dead, team hardware never really got much traction or use
<knome> flocculant, team hardware might be useful if it was linked in a sane way to the iso tracker...
<knome> flocculant, that said, i think it should probably come from your LP account, which is out of our reach
<flocculant> meant to discuss this the other day when I was editless on the wiki :p
<knome> heh
<flocculant> knome: the hardware option on the tracker is gone now
<knome> i know
<knome> so just delete the hardware page?
<knome> or would it be useful to track this in some other way?
<flocculant> well that or just move the used one to where we're moving
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll move it and we can then see what we want to do with it
<knome> i think there are some good bits there, like GPU stuff
<flocculant> no no
<knome> no?
<knome> :D
<flocculant> I meant just leave the 3 at wiki.u.c/xubuntu/testing
<knome> oh...
<flocculant> only have the release note on at the xubuntu wiki 
<knome> i think that's actually the only one we want in the ubuntu wiki
<knome> ...considering we will be releasing the release notes there
<flocculant> why? 
<knome> that's mostly because the markup is different
<flocculant> why aren't we moving that to ours? 
<flocculant> oh mmm
<knome> not sure if the release team would be okay with that
<knome> or to be more exact, if they would just have them in one place
<flocculant> they aren't in one place :p
<knome> if they don't mind, then i'm fine with moving it
<knome> well, yeah...
<knome> that's why i said "rather"
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu
<knome> right
<knome> though they do have that page that links to another page
<knome> so the main release notes page links to wiki.ubuntu.com
<knome> the question is, can kubuntu, and could we, link directly to $something_else
<knome> and the other thing we've discussed before is if we need separate announcement/notes
<knome> clearly kubuntu doesn't do that (any more)
<knome> and then also,
<flocculant> well
<knome> one thing just occurred to me, there's the added benefit to staying in the ubuntu wiki that we can include the common stuff
<flocculant> if I was me looking in on the 2 of our things - the website 'ooh pretty' post would leave me cold - more inclined to want things like changes than that
<knome> well yeah
<knome> i do think that there's a place for both
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> and they serve a different purpose (which are both okay)
<knome> just bringing that up
<flocculant> wiki for the detail, website for the sell 
<knome> yes
<flocculant> and good point on includes
<knome> or from other POV, wiki for the technical stuff, website for the non-technical
<flocculant> yea that's my thinking
<knome> yep
<flocculant> thinking of includes though - then do we want to move the meeting stuff? 
<knome> yes, since we're only including the meeting minutes
<knome> which should be moving too
<flocculant> so we can include internal - external is a problem? 
<knome> yes
<flocculant> ok
<knome> or at least totally not so clean and dependable on
<flocculant> then we have to leave release notes on wiki.u.c imo
<knome> yes, that was what i was thinking
<flocculant> or it'd be some bizarre mishmash of what kubuntu did and the includes 
<flocculant> which is meh
<knome> yeah, let's not mix two wikis together
<flocculant> nope
<dkessel> +1 on not mixing two wikis (without reading the discussion :p )
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> nice curry aroma here
<knome> flocculant, anyway, about the other testing pages...
<knome> flocculant, i would probably just remove the hw pages if those aren't actively used
<knome> flocculant, that said, if we figure out an active use for them, we likely want to move them to the new wiki because that's so much faster and we can control the stuff ourself
<flocculant> one is definitely pointless the other doesn't even have the QA lead on it 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> ok
<knome> we can point those pages to the contributor docs
<knome> so people who access them aren't left in the cold
<flocculant> move https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TeamHardware to us
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> kill the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/HardwareProfile 
<knome> ok
<knome> flocculant, would http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-team.html be a fair target for the redirect?
<knome> anyway, dinner time
<knome> bbiab
<flocculant> not sure what you mean - ping me later
<knome> flocculant, i mean that when i "delete" the page, i could instead just point it to some other location
<knome> that would have somewhat relevant information
<knome> if somebody ends up to that page
<flocculant> can you not redirect to our wiki copy? 
<flocculant> rather than docs
<knome> flocculant, for the "kill"?
<flocculant> oh sorry - thought you meant the other :D
<knome> no, that i will of course redirect to the new page
<flocculant> hang on - I think it's a copy of something else :p
<knome> haha
<knome> ok
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware
<flocculant> redirect to there :)
<knome> i will
<flocculant> you can see where I've been on that page pretty easily :)
<knome> heh
<flocculant> what our qa docs don't have is anything about ordinary testers really
<knome> :)
<flocculant> the qa team page is really really qa team 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> might get one done soonish - so it can all be up to date by release time
<knome> :)
<flocculant> I have another thing to add to the team page responsibility wise
<knome> remember we can update the website docs whenever we want
<flocculant> I didn't know that :)
<flocculant> I think I'll do that 'really' soon
<flocculant> then include link to that moved page
<knome> docs. is now on the dev server
<knome> so if you need anything changed there, you can ping me, pleia2 or ubottu 
<knome> Unit193 rather
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ok - well I'll get this all done - then it can be updated, cos chapter 3 current is really chapter 6 ;)
<knome> yep
<knome> let's coordinate that then
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> I'll make a start today on that
<knome> :)
<flocculant> I'll even add it as a task so I can look good :p
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> knome: mmm - so much of what I'll put in this tester page will link to places that exist in http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/common-reference.html#qa-team-links
<flocculant> so that will then end up with next to nothing in it 
<flocculant> that's not referenced somewhere else - any need to keep that #qa-links do you think seperately? 
<knome> so let's see..
<flocculant> knome: do you mean wait and see? 
<flocculant> wfm if so :)
<knome> for you, yes
<knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa/teamhardware
<knome> adding the redirect next
<flocculant> thanks
<knome> and done
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> just thought of a relevant point here
<knome> which is?
<flocculant> if I say to people - hey there is this list which we use to point specific people at testing things - they can't edit it ... 
<flocculant> well
<knome> true, but they can't edit in the ubuntu wiki either if they aren't on the right teams
<flocculant> not as simply as people can wiki.u.c
<knome> and the page is (at least so far) team hardware
<flocculant> knome: yea - only really because way back it was a 'oh crud really need to get *this* tested on *that* - who in team can we pester
<knome> yep
<flocculant> but to be really useful it would be nice to tie active testers there
<knome> practically i don't see this as a big problem - those who we can depend on situations where we need exact testing are limited in quantity
<flocculant> I guess asking to edit that would lose the not active people 
<flocculant> yea - same point :)
<knome> well, just tell them to be in touch with ~xubuntu-website and we'll create accounts for them
<flocculant> and will have read the dev docs - so not *just* drive by testers 
<knome> yep
<knome> we'll have to consider the registration
<knome> but yeah
<knome> so far point people to -web
<flocculant> for the moment - not a major issue thinking more :D
<flocculant> anyway - thanks for doing that - means I have the link :p
<knome> yep, no
<knome> *np
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> dinner time now 
<flocculant> biab
<knome> bon appetit
<knome> flocculant, for when you get back...
<knome> flocculant, since https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/ is practically orphan now, do you want it to be redirected to the website page it has a link to right now, or to the contributor docs?
<knome> flocculant, or the new wiki landing page (which is quite quiet so far)
<flocculant> knome: I just need to be able to get at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/ReleaseNoteBase
<knome> flocculant, i'll likely move it to Toolbox, but i'll poke you again then
<flocculant> when I say dinner time - I mean in and out while I'm doing it
<flocculant> ok
<knome> and removing that page doesn't stop you from getting there anyway
<knome> it's just a page without a parent
<flocculant> yea ofc - just making it plain I need it :D 
<knome> well, a page with a parent that has a redirect...
<knome> ack
<knome> so where to point that?
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/ > contributor docs please :)
<knome> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-team.html this one?
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> it'll be qa-tester when it's there 
<knome> ah, ok
<knome> i'll just point it there already...
<knome> :P
<flocculant> which will be chapter*1* of the qa stuff
<knome> and done
<flocculant> so testers - iso's - bugs - team 
<flocculant> is the order 
<knome> it's -tester now
<knome> should it be +s?
<flocculant> cool - ty :)
<flocculant> the file is tester
<knome> goodie
<flocculant> but can be +s :)
<knome> it's tester now! :P
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> or testerooney :D
<knome> nooo
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> neither testerole
<knome> see what i did there
<knome> tester(r)ooney
<knome> tester(c)ole
<flocculant>  :)
<knome> bluesabre, interesting discussion on -release
<flocculant> davmor2 dkessel - upgraded 15.10 to 16.04 without apparent issue here jfi
<davmor2> flocculant: nice I'll do a run after I still think it is gcc that is biting us which would make sense as 14.04.4 is the much older version that is incompatible with the one in 15.10/16.04 but we'll see
<flocculant> yep - just thought I would let you know :)
<davmor2> flocculant: thanks
<pavlushka> flocculant, you there?
<flocculant> ish
<pavlushka> busy?
<flocculant> always - but often got time to talk to people as well :)
<pavlushka> lol, if you please tell me a little in details about the email you sent to the mailing list about package tracker.
<flocculant> pavlushka: have you been to the package tracker? 
<pavlushka> ya
<flocculant> ok - so it is split into sections
<pavlushka> yes
<pavlushka> I can see that
<flocculant> the top section - all of those 7 have bugs listed against them
<pavlushka> different category, different priority.
<pavlushka> yes
<flocculant> basically test those applications - see if you can confirm the bug(s)
<pavlushka> got it.
<pavlushka> and?
<flocculant> it's been a while since I called for package testing - there have been lots of updates since then
<pavlushka> good.
<flocculant> then report on the tracker - if you see the same bug - use the number listed
<flocculant> for example
<flocculant> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/350/builds/105268/testcases/1559/results
<flocculant> right at the bottom - all the bugs people have seen
<flocculant> those need confirming again 
<flocculant> you can 'me too' a bug - but most importantly - report on the tracker 
<pavlushka> on it
<flocculant> that is where I look
<pavlushka> ok.
<pavlushka> thanks
<pavlushka> I might ask you if I had any confusions later about it.
<flocculant> yea that's fine :)
<pavlushka> that's great for me, :)
<flocculant> :)
<pavlushka> night.
<flocculant> I'm about for 
<flocculant> sigh
<flocculant> I'm about for ~2 or 3 hours
<flocculant> knome: well that was hard work with me and bazaar for a minute there ... try and remember bzr add next time ...
<flocculant> anyway - done that now - index is right too
<knome> hahah :)
<flocculant> knome: I assume that docs update will grab the newest dvd/encryption stuff too? 
<knome> yep
<knome> well
<knome> no
<flocculant> ok ... 
<knome> because the 16.04 user docs aren't up already
<flocculant> oh right
<flocculant> but they are on the iso? 
<knome> don't know if bluesabre and slickymaster coordinated a docs upload already
<knome> yeah, three days ago
<knome> well i did know
<knome> just didn't remember...
<knome> and no, the dvd stuff isn't in yet
<knome> that was merged after the upload
<knome> bluesabre, doc string freeze is this thursday, let's do another -docs upload on wednesday
<knome> flocculant, there ^
<kryten> knome: That doesn't matter for that though.
<flocculant> kryten: what doesn't matter? 
<knome> kryten, string changes aren't subject to string freeze? o.O
<flocculant> knome: ack all that
<kryten> Upload.
<knome> kryten, i acknowledge they are "bug fixes", but otoh, the freeze is there also for translations
<flocculant> k
<knome> kryten, technically, it doesn't block translators from doing their thing, but socially, i think it's good to do the upload before the freeze
<knome> we don't like others breaking freezes, and we shouldn't do that ourself, even if it only concerned us
<flocculant> so the end result of that is 'Wednesday' I think :)
<knome> yes
<flocculant> :)
<kryten> knome: I agree that it's nice to do an upload when the final translation period begins, but wouldn't it make more sense to do that *after* the freeze then? :P
<knome> well, the process is that you do it before freeze because after that everything is frozen...
<knome> that's just how it goes
<kryten> The strings are frozen.
<knome> nope
<knome> well, for us, practically, yes
<knome> but we can change them before thursday as much as we want
<knome> i guess this is minutiae related to the freeze process and customs
<flocculant> oh good
<knome> all freezes work in the "upload before freeze" way
<knome> if you want to land a feature, you will need to land it before the freeze
<knome> not upload it after the freeze
<knome> kryten, then there's of course the other freeze for translations
<flocculant> going to change all the the's to teh's and see if kryten notices 
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> knome: Right, but IMO that's a bit different, feature freeze that is.  String freeze is so translators don't have to hit a moving target.
<knome> Unit193, ack, but as i said, i don't think the question is technical but social
<knome> the fact that something is available and translatable somewhere is different than uploaded in the distro
<Unit193> Sure, but that's to address the latter arguments.
<knome> again practically not, but socially it means much that we put our work out and let everybody know what we're going with
<knome> i understand your point and don't really even disagree
<knome> but if we have upload permissions for the package and are not so limited in time that we really just can't get it in, it's good for all preparation to just do it
<ochosi> bluesabre: obviously! it's the gtk3 port that goes along with xfce 4.14 ;)
<knome> flocculant, Unit193, kryten: we should take it here though
<knome> but a target for .1, what about that?
<Unit193> flocculant: Right, and at this point can't really fine tune it anyway.
<flocculant> Unit193: ack
<flocculant> knome: *shrug* 
<knome> freeze periods are shorter for .1, so a lot of time to tune it too
<knome> or it can be any other time we want to push it out, between main release and .1 too
<flocculant> let's wait and see what happens this week
<knome> sure
<knome> again just laying out potential options we might have to consider
<knome> so it's not "all lost" even we don't make main release day
<flocculant> yea ofc
 * knome wants things to happen more than find guilty people ;)
<flocculant> myth didn't make release day with their 14.04 
<knome> yep
<knome> that's been done before
<knome> and this isn't ever our main image
<flocculant> yea - same - couldn't care what *happened* 
<flocculant> just not going to say yea ok if I'm not happy is all :)
<Unit193> Little time to fine tune so that's not really great from my/dev standpoint, and of course I'll defer to flocculant anyway.
<flocculant> .1 would be August ish? 
<knome> julyish
<knome> .2 februaryish
<knome> at least if the schedule is sameish to 14.04.xish
<Unit193> Point releases are created differently, sooo.  Will have to diff the manifest.
<knome> Unit193, technical issue, that's overcomableish
<flocculant> right so - given b2 is next week and release is only 6 weeks - not going to be fun
<knome> :P
<knome> yes, that's why i brought up .1 already, even if we got base for b2
<flocculant> if it makes it easier from the dev side (assuming assumptions) to do it for April - then we can but try
<flocculant> it depends on what response we get
<flocculant> I'd be much less happy +1ing core with 2 or 3 reports than I would the main images
<knome> yes
<Unit193> flocculant: Know of "anything wrong" with the current installer?
<knome> there's still a lot of variables, so releasing base with the main images in april totally isn't impossible either
<flocculant> but if we managed to get it right pre RC - that's 2 weeks to hack at testing it
<flocculant> Unit193: the normal image one - or the debian one ? 
<Unit193> ubiquity.
<flocculant> nothing major that I know of
<flocculant> vbox things - but I ignore those anyway
<flocculant> swap issues for some
<flocculant> encryption oddities 
<flocculant> but some of these are drive-by's - no idea who they are, no idea of the veracity of the claims
<flocculant> some random guy called bluesomething had the swap issue 
<flocculant> :p
<Unit193> blueninja, weird fella.
<flocculant> for sure
<flocculant> so - basically at this point - our main images from ubiquity are in good shape
<flocculant> I can get 15.10 to upgrade
<flocculant> no-one can get 14.04 to upgrade
<flocculant> not looked at core for months so no real idea tbh
<Unit193> Sorry for not giving details, but all I got is "attempted to install, but the installer crashed twice. It is a dual boot with Windows XP, with a custom /boot en / partition. Oh, and I installed from flash drive, vreated using Unetbootin 613."
<flocculant> is more or less where we stand currently
<Unit193> flocculant: Nono, that's fine.  Slicky has been really handy there.
<flocculant> yep I know :)
<flocculant> I do notice that stuff going on 
<flocculant> Unit193: ^^ that from the mail you got? 
<flocculant> to be frank - are we still install xubuntu-minimal or whatever the task is in tasksel from the mini.iso? 
<Unit193> flocculant: Yeah, rebuilding the iso then going to respond trying to get some deailts/logs.  Just figured I'd poke you first and see if you knew of a global issue.
<flocculant> nope 
<flocculant> but doesn't it use d-i not ubiquity? 
<Unit193> My images.
<flocculant> oh right - so ubiquity then
<flocculant> I kind of ignored it waiting for the image to be built like the rest :)
<flocculant> Unit193: where are they? I can run them tomorrow here on hardware 
<Unit193> flocculant: You really don't need to, my problem.  But, https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/pending/
<flocculant> not a problem running them to see where it stands :)
<Unit193> New isos up any minute, when amd64 finishes.
<flocculant> ok
<Unit193> Well, thanks then.
<flocculant> np :)
<Unit193> I presume you don't need a CC?
<flocculant> what's that?
<Unit193> Sending a reply now anyway, could carbon copy you.
<flocculant> oh right - nah
<flocculant> if there's something I need to know I'm sure you'll tell me :)
<flocculant> anyway - going to crash now, I'll zsync them both tomorrow and have a look see what gives :)
<Unit193> G'night.
<bluesabre> knome: I see some conversation re base and snappy, that?
<knome> bluesabre, -docs upload before thursday?
<knome> bluesabre, need to land a few things before that though
<bluesabre> knome: yes, saw that ping here, will upload wednesday
<knome> ta
<ochosi> humm, i'm still reviewing the delta between the mimetype folders
<ochosi> even just reviewing that is a fair amount of work
<knome> :)
<ochosi> also not sure what sizes to care about the most
<ochosi> but i guess 48px
<ochosi> think i'll merge and do some cleanups later...
<bluesabre> ochosi: keep me posted
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-15
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, merged and fixed some things
<bluesabre> oh hey ochosi
<ochosi> now i gotta get some rest though :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: so, should I wait until tomorrow before packaging that?
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure i'll get to more updates very soon
<ochosi> the rest of the week is rather busy
<knome> ochosi, could you try to get to the media manager *at latest* next week?
<knome> ochosi, i'm planning to publish it in week 13, which is the week next to next week
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll wait until tomorrow to be safe
<bluesabre> knome: wp contest ready?
<knome> bluesabre, hur dur
<knome> trying to get some time tomorrow to do that...
<knome> ochosi, anything specific on the icons that you think need more attention btw?
<bluesabre> knome: :D
<ochosi> knome: i guess more symlink checking and looking into the bigger discreptancies
<ochosi> it's not too bad
<ochosi> i guess now the best way is just using/testing it
<knome> right
<ochosi> and then we can fix the ones that hurt the most
<ochosi> but yeah, as i said, shouldn't be bad at all
<ochosi> (awesome, i already receive bugreports for greybird not working with gtk3.19)
<knome> (:
<ochosi> knome: i'll try, can't promise though
<ochosi> now i need some sleep
<ochosi> night everyone!
<knome> sigh :P
<knome> nighty
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<bluesabre> knome: if you want to be extra nudgey tomorrow, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1555046 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1555046 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Please upload shimmer-themes-2.1.2-0ubuntu1 to xenial" [Low,Confirmed]
<knome> mhm
<bluesabre> knome: so, this is more of a wontfix, what should I mark it? [xubuntu-dev] Remove xfce4-volumed from the seed: TODO
<knome> drop it
<knome> unless you want to change it to something that is more like investigating the options
<bluesabre> dropping
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> time to go to bed
<knome> have a nice evening and ttyl
<bluesabre> nighty knome
<flocculant> Unit193: don't know if you expect the zsyncs to work - but they don't :)
<Unit193> Eh?
<Unit193> zsync http://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/pending/xubuntu-16.04-core-amd64.iso.zsync  ?
<flocculant> yup both failed here
<flocculant> could not read control file from URL https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/pending/xubuntu-16.04-core-i386.iso.zsync
<flocculant> anyway - that's not too much of an issue
<flocculant> the installer crashed (64bit) - says it's going to do it's thing to report it - doesn't 
<flocculant> there was a window with some python fail lines in it - which appeared to all be ubiquity things - too early in the morning to do more than 'meh' and reboot :)
<flocculant> didn't run apport properly
<Unit193> flocculant: OK, thanks for checking.  And yeah that's expected with https, zsync doesn't know how to do https.
<flocculant> aah cool
<flocculant> Unit193: when I'm back later and awake I'll have another go and see what information I can grab 
<flocculant> Unit193: colour me stupid ... but why doesn't your image have ubiquity? 
<flocculant> knome: did you push the slideshow change? re ready to go list that is
<flocculant> and we just need that dealt with to update it? 
<flocculant> bluesabre: so I noticed this ... livesession > breeze icons, once installed > elementary 
<flocculant> lying
<flocculant> installed > galaxy
<flocculant> listed in Options as the Automatic choice
<flocculant> updated bug 1548647 
<ubottu> bug 1548647 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice uses breeze style" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1548647
<flocculant> Unit193: couldn't do much in the livesession - have sent you logs from after the installer crashed
<flocculant> tried 32 bit on the offchance - note tried :)
<Unit193> flocculant: Bah, OK.  Thanks.
<Unit193> printing-scanning.xml:157: element xref: validity error : Syntax of value for attribute linkend of xref is not valid
<Unit193> printing-scanning.xml:157: element xref: validity error : IDREF attribute linkend references an unknown ID "ImpressÃ£o em rede"
<Unit193> Document pt/index.xml does not validate
<knome> flocculant, yes, i pushed the change so it looks as it should now
<knome> flocculant, and we just need an upload to get it right
<kryten> Unit193: Thanks.  slickymaster: Such a fail there, LOL - https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/xenial/+pots/user-docs/pt/86/+translate
<flocculant> knome: okey doke - thought that was the case - just checking :)
<knome> yep, np
<flocculant> well - that and booting the image prompted me to try and remember and failing :D
<flocculant> Unit193: yep - not sure what's going on there - obviously apport doesn't fire 
<Unit193> flocculant: Crashes on startup?
<Unit193> Looks like locale problem, which is why I wouldn't see it.
<flocculant> Unit193: from memory it copies files - then as soon as the next bit starts - crash
<flocculant> Unit193: ok - so if I set to US it would run? 
<flocculant> happy to test that
<Unit193> Seeing if I can get it to do it.
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> shout if you want me to try anything - only takes a few minutes
<Unit193> Well, while this is running, if you have an ISO of the desktop handy and could boot into live and run  locale -a  that'd likely be handy, but only if you can do so without trouble.
<flocculant> enough in a vm?
<Unit193> Yes.
<flocculant> k
<Unit193> And  cat /etc/default/locale ?
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/R31V6L7.png
<Unit193> Right, that's what I saw.  Figuring that's not the same on the desktop images.
<flocculant> 2 secs
<flocculant> excuse font size on the desktop image - small to get it all in http://i.imgur.com/Zc3F6Z6.png
<knome> readable..
<Unit193> That is awesome http://u193.ga/c/qd2i
<flocculant> After the problem report has been sent, please fill out the form in the automatically opened web browser is good - no browser, nothing opened :p
<flocculant> oh - in a vm I get the ubi-language failed dooby 
<Unit193> I don't think that's really important, was a bit surprised /etc/default/locale had en_US on desktop though, would have expected either more generic or en_GB.
<flocculant> Unit193: the normal live stuff always defaults to US for some reason
<flocculant> always has iirc
<Unit193> Installed firefox, re-running.
<Unit193> Well this is going well..
<bluesabre> flocculant: probably related to the changes that were pushed for fontconfig and pending for pango
<bluesabre> or maybe not
<bluesabre> folks just commenting on bugs to comment, it seems
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, so no more icon changes from my side
<ochosi> already pushed the delta upstream, where it was warmly received :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: great!
<bluesabre> ochosi: if you want to update lp:xubuntu-artwork as well, I'll def. package it tonight
<bluesabre> (I'll have to file the UIFe for it as well, but that's no biggie)
<ochosi> bluesabre: already on it
<bluesabre> ochosi: you da man
<knome> ...huh
<bluesabre> hey knome
<bluesabre> having fun?
<knome> watching football
<ochosi> knome: lucky you, i don't receive a channel that shows one of the CL games...
<bluesabre> woo
<ochosi> bluesabre: committed pushed and done
<knome> atletico madrid - psv einhoven
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks
<ochosi> well, thank you!
<knome> 2nd leg, 0-0 aggregate, now on penalties
<ochosi> ok, gotta get some sleep
<ochosi> night everyone
<slickymaster> I see no need in keeping it, knome 
<slickymaster> since we already have the contributor docs with all the info
<slickymaster> and the w.x.o
<knome> keeping what?
<knome> :P
<slickymaster> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation
<slickymaster> sorry
<knome> it's moved already though
<slickymaster> yeah, I know
<slickymaster> but I thought you'd like my feedback in the channel
<knome> if you want, you can drop the page
<slickymaster> bureaucracy
<slickymaster> will do it later
<knome> but then please redirect the w.u.c page to some other location
<slickymaster> want to review flocculant's MP, firts
<slickymaster> * first
<bluesabre> knome, slickymaster, going to make a UIFe bug for the new mime icons when I get back home. Should just need a single ack
<knome> yes
<knome> bluesabre, docs is fine with that.
<knome> xubuntu and ubuntu, if it matters.
<slickymaster> go ahead bluesabre 
<bluesabre> Probably needs to be on the bug, or maybe not
<knome> tell me when the bugis done
<bluesabre> Or I can just upload and ask questions later
<slickymaster> that won't be a problem bluesabre, ;)
<bluesabre> knome, will do. Out for dinner now, bbabl
<knome> bon appetit
<slickymaster> enjoy bluesabre 
<bluesabre> back
<Unit193> Front.
<bluesabre> Side
<bluesabre> knome, slickymaster: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1557803
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1557803 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Include refreshed mime icons from upstream" [Undecided,New]
<knome> done
<slickymaster> thanks bluesabre, knome 
<bluesabre> knome: danke
<knome> bitte
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-16
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome: thanks for the UIFe!
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: morning - didn't expect to see you this early - do you want to get call to 'users' ready to roll for the final beta next week for us
<flocculant> they'll need some basic info - perhaps point to the http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-tester.html page (not there yet but it will be)
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, Morning, aye left the pc running at work with hechat running, couldnt be bothered to turn it off... :-)
<akxwi-dave> Yep, will gladly do the all to Users.. what sort of size do you want for it
<xubuntu74d>  hello, i have discovered a bug in Xubuntu 16.04 beta 1, but it's a bug with a package, and only happens when I use btrfs, and I don't know how to report it
<xubuntu74d> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/intel-microcode/+bug/1557989
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1557989 in intel-microcode (Ubuntu) "having btrfs installed as the fs is causing a crash when trying to install the intel-microcode package" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> ochosi, flocculant: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/2.1.2-0ubuntu1
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice!
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :)
<flocculant> also see we have shimmer themeseses back \o/
<ochosi> wooot!
<ochosi> rly?
<flocculant> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/03/16/%23ubuntu-motu.html#t11:03
<flocculant> ochosi: ^^ and also I'd stand in the room cheering bluesabre on for DMB :)
<ochosi> flocculant: indeed :)
<ali1234> http://i.imgur.com/ivE7I89.png - why is there a question mark?
<ochosi> ali1234: i guess the orage devs were uncertain of the quality of their product ;)
<ali1234> that is certainly the impression it gives. and yes, it is in the upstream source
<ali1234> i'll report it on bugzilla.xfce.org
<ali1234> ochosi: the panel switch UI looks really nice btw
<ali1234> suggestion: the Gnome 2 configuration should include a Settings menu like mine :)
<akxwi-dave> Is the "Incompltete Language support" window on today's ISO supposed to be there as a feature?
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: not that I know of - in the live session? 
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, no after install..
<flocculant> ok - that's at least better than I imagined :p
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> I've only seen that if I couldn't be assed to wait for the installer to grab bits and told it skip 
<akxwi-dave> right time for home.. bbl
<pavlushka> addressing an issue, the initrd.img of 16.04 is almost double in size than 14.04 usual initrd.img, so it takes longer to load, atleast in my case.
<flocculant> yes
<flocculant> but usual isn't right
<pavlushka> but its a bit unresting.
<pavlushka> ok.
<flocculant> the usual size in 16.04 is about what it is
<pavlushka> 36.1 MB
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> not an issue 
<flocculant> that's what it is
<pavlushka> Its taking longer to load than 14.04
<flocculant> not here
<pavlushka> may that's in my case with a marginal pc.
<flocculant> anyway - that might be an issue for *you* 
<pavlushka> i am facing the difference, due to my configuration then.
<flocculant> yea - entirely possible - not an issue for *us* as a team - and the kernel is certainly nothing to do with us - we use what Ubuntu does :)
<pavlushka> yeah, got it, no one cares about the poor.
<flocculant> try lubuntu then
<pavlushka> you'll tell me to use lubuntu now, i know it.
<pavlushka> and you did
<flocculant> not that it'll make much difference to the kernel afaik
<flocculant> not sure if they do anything different kernel wise
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: can't confirm the language support
<Nairwolf> hi guys, I've spent some days away from a computer. I'm reading my e-mails, and I've seen flocculant talks about package. I will start tests tomorrow. what's new ? 
<knome> nothing specific right now, it's just time to test the packages
<Nairwolf> ok, and what's new if the wallpaper contest ? 
<knome> "if" ?
<Nairwolf> oh, sorry, "with". Is it officialy launched ? 
<knome> not yet
<knome> we'll announce it on the mailing list, website and much more; you can't miss it
<Nairwolf> ok, nice ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant, ochosi: :D
<bluesabre> rare instance where I was productive
 * Unit193 steals the credit.
 * bluesabre gives the credit away
<bluesabre> knome, slickymaster: ready for that -docs upload?
<knome> yes i think so
 * bluesabre packages xubuntu-docs
<Unit193> PDF builds work?
<knome> should.
<bluesabre> looks like slickymaster added some changelogs to the previous package release
<bluesabre> I'll fix and provide a branch to merge
<bluesabre> ok, slickymaster merged some changes that flocculant pushed
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> ali1234: good to hear :) well feel free to submit a pull request about the gnome2 setup, we're totally open to improvements/suggestions there
<knome> o hai ochosi 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> evening all
<ochosi> just checking in and checking out
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> nothing to see here (I think)
<knome> lol
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, nice and extremely simple patch for xfce4-panel to support the primary monitor setting: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9338
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9338 in Panel "Support for RandR's "primary monitor"" [Enhancement,New]
<ochosi> i've tested it, if you feel you have the energy for another FFe i'd say go for that 
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool
<ochosi> (since i don't expect another 4.12 panel release anytime soon)
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> stick around for a quick sec
 * bluesabre digs through logs
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://paste.ubuntu.com/15379748/ is what remains of the xfpm patch when tweaked for 1.4.4
<bluesabre> look reasonable?
<ochosi> yeah, looks reasonable
<ochosi> doing a test with it wouldn't hurt
<ochosi> but it's likely better than what we have now with 1.4.4 (which is a fairly big leak)
<knome> test? did you mean to ping flocculant 
<ochosi> well basically just install a patched version and leave your computer (with the xfpm panel plugin in your panel) and look whether it leaks
<ochosi> with leaving it on i'm thinking about a day or so
<ochosi> just not rebooting should be enough
<ochosi> although i think you might need a laptop, otherwise the leak is not as obvious/aggressive (iirc the state changes in the battery keep updating the icon and that - and a little more - is leaked)
<bluesabre> knome: uploaded, merge at https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/xubuntu-docs/16.04.1/+merge/289311
<bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty, I'll apply it and drop it in -staging for now for folks to be able to test
<knome> bluesabre, yeah
<ochosi> perfect, thanks bluesabre 
<ochosi> night everyone!
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<knome> nighty simon
<knome> bluesabre, merged
<bluesabre> knome: thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-17
<bluesabre> ochosi, flocculant: pushed a new xfce4-panel to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging and a new xfce4-power-manager to https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/experimental (since the one in -staging is a higher version number)
<bluesabre> xfce4-panel change: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9338
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9338 in Panel "Support for RandR's "primary monitor"" [Enhancement,New]
<bluesabre> xfce4-power-manager change: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/commit/?id=6eaf8f868ed9ed8018385e16a92eaacef3c32a9d (ish)
<bluesabre> that's probably all I've got for tonight, tomorrow I'll work on appstream
<bluesabre> knome, slickymaster, flocculant: oh, and a new xubuntu-docs http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/commit/?id=6eaf8f868ed9ed8018385e16a92eaacef3c32a9d
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/16.04.1
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> ochosi: I'll add xfpm - but not sure it's worth it if desktop 
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> having trouble getting the one from /experimental 
<flocculant> knome: will we have the updated docs online soon? couldn't care about the user ones - but really would like cont ones there - will be including users in the final beta test call 
<ochosi> bluesabre: copied the package for wily so i can more easily test it ;)
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, re the Language thing, re-did the install.. didn't pop up second time... i'll put it down to a blip, but will keep an eye out in case it happena again.
<knome> flocculant, i'll take care of that today
<knome> kryten, uh oh, you might have been right with the relative paths
<kryten> lol
<knome> but tell me
<knome> why did the original stuff work for me then?
<knome> err, not work
<kryten> I take this as a rethoric question. :P
<knome> i don't :X
<knome> seriously, WOOT
<kryten> :D
 * knome cries a bit
 * knome facepalms
<knome> bluesabre....?
<knome> :P
<knome> anyway, making sure the updated contributor docs are up next
<bluesabre> knome: ?
<bluesabre> knome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmnN3eVMWgA
<knome> bluesabre, can you do one more docs upload at some point
<knome> no string changes, only "bugfixes"
<bluesabre> knome: any time
<knome> sure, i'll poke you after i've fixed a few more crappy things
<bluesabre> k
<knome> flocculant, new contributor docs are up
<knome> bluesabre, ok, everything is prepared in the branch, including the changelog :)
<bluesabre> knome: ok, I can quickly package and upload that if you're ready
<knome> yes
<bluesabre> knome: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/16.04.2
<bluesabre> be sure to change UNRELEASED to xenial in the branch
<bluesabre> heading out, bbl
<knome> i will, cheers!
<flocculant> hi 
<flocculant> cya bluesabre 
<knome> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> thanks knome :)
<flocculant> early break - sneaking 2 in today :p
<knome> heh :)
<knome> if there's anything fishy in the contributor docs, poke me
<knome> they should be fine though
<flocculant> ack
<knome> lunch, bbl
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: re 'users' call - not sure what you meant by size - if you mean content - pointing to http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-tester.html should do enough to get them ready
<flocculant> as soon as the images are ready I'll follow up with call to everywhere :)
<flocculant> went well then ... 
<knome> kryten, please explain to me why it doesn't work now with the ../../
<knome> thing is, the package builds with ../
<knome> but not with make
<knome> at least here...
<knome> er, i eman
<knome> why it doesn't work with "../" in the build
<kryten> Hah, ok.
<knome> it works locally with that
<knome> but in the build, it seems to require ../../
<knome> should we just introduce some symlinks?
<kryten> Nah, that'd be hacky.
<knome> i'll let you fix it then
<knome> [:
<kryten> :D
<knome> i know it's hacky, but i don't have any other solution right now
<kryten> Well, then just do it like that for now.
<knome> sigh
<knome> why not fix it right away?
<kryten> I mean, in light that we're currently a bit under time pressure there.
<knome> it's a bugfix, can land at any time
<knome> and a FTBFS fix too
<kryten> But we'd rather like to have the current docs included in the Final Beta image, no?
<knome> sure, but would your evaluation be that it'd take longer than until monday to figure out the fix?
<kryten> And right now I'd not even know where to start looking - plus, *you* are supposed to be the DocBook expert.
<knome> this has nothing to do with docbook
<knome> fop needs the font metric files to be able to build the PDF; they are simply referred to in the XSL file
<knome> it's not a docbook-internal thing
<kryten> Also, I'm kind of on the run right now. :P
<kryten> But I'll have a look later then.
<knome> thanks
<knome> i can try to help debug it, if you need
<knome> but i'm out of ideas right now
<knome> because ../ works locally, not in the build
<knome> the opposite with ../../
<kryten> :D
<knome> ...yeah
<knome> the only easy way to fix that which i can think of is a symlink
<kryten> Of course, since it worked before, it'd seem like that's a regression in fop.
<knome> maybe
<knome> maybe it had some path searching magic
<knome> though that'd mean our docs were always flawed
<kryten> 'fop -q -c ../libs-common/xubuntu-docbook-pdf-fonts.xml ...', and '<font metrics-url="../libs-common/fonts/fontmetric-notosans-regular.xml"' - so...
<knome> but how is the build different than make?
<kryten> Different environment variables.
<knome> right.
<knome> but which one would affect this?
<knome> anyway, booting the desktop machine up to fix the last issues with the wallpaper contest site, then can look at this too
<sidi> Xub packagers, please have a look at #xfce-dev. I suspect either you guys or Corsac made a mistake when packaging libxfce4util
<sidi> so, interestingly. debian/patches/ubuntu.series is missed by quilt
<sidi> resulting in local changes when attempting to build the package on my Xubuntu machine
<sidi> porting the ubuntu.series content to series allowed me to make quilt push everything and to build the package
<kryten> knome: There is a least bad hacky solution for that as well - add creation and removal of the needed symlinks to the 'pdf-create.sh' script - keeps it limited to the PDF creation.
<flocculant> knome: looked at contest - sent you mail - now I thought it would be better to send to all - can if you want
<flocculant> davmor2: following a very very tentative \o/ at the recent upgrade to apt and stuff which fixed one bit - I am now failing at udisks2 - should I report that? vaguely ... or should I just wait for someone more intimately involved - like someone called davmor2 who works for Canonical to say 'hey flocculant - could you see what goes on for you upgrading now?' 
<flocculant> would this perhaps be better in -release or something ? 
<davmor2> Hey dude so today I'm busy with silos for phone, However there is a jolly nice man call cyphermox who is starting to concentrate on the upgrade issues currently so you might want to ask him if he would like a fresh report or to keep working on it himself
<flocculant> hi davmor2 :)
<flocculant> he'll see the ping so I won't repeat it - he know's where I am :p
<knome> kryten, i thought about that too..
<knome> flocculant, yeah, sure, feel free to send to everybody :)
<flocculant> knome: ack
<flocculant> done - you'll get another - sorry
<knome> np
<knome> and replied back
<flocculant> and replied
<flocculant> ignoring ochosi's mail failures ... Mail quota exceeded.
<Unit193> sidi: WFM.
<davmor2> flocculant: man you are too easy I'd keep pinging cyphermox till he breaks down and replies ;)
<knome> davmor2, it's a different strategy
<knome> play like you're not interested in pinging and seeking for him
<knome> when he lands one line to the channel, attack him like a hyena
<davmor2> hahaha
<pjotter> Hi everyone. A question: I have installed pulseaudio in debian 8.3 xfce. But for some reason, some settings that pavucontrol sets are not remembered. Since Xubuntu is kind of like Debian + xfce4 and also has a working paulsaudios sytem+pavucontrol, maybe someone here knows what is going wrong?
<knome> pjotter, since my bank account is kind of like yours, maybe you can transfer some of the money to mine?
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> davmor2: see my plan is to THIS IS NO GOOD FOR UPGRADING FROM 14.04 all over our release stuff and let it hit the fridge next week :p
<flocculant> *then* talk to cyphermox :)
<pjotter> Hi knome. Sure I've got a negative fortune atm ;)
<cyphermox> I'm trying to debug that crasher on upgrade
<pjotter> But seriously why is pavucontrol working in Xubuntu but not when I install it on Debian?
<cyphermox> it looks very much like it's "just" compiz that is way way way broken
<cyphermox> so for now trying to just upgrade compiz, next I'll rip compiz out and upgrade without
<flocculant> cyphermox: mmm - but should that affect us in here ? 
<knome> pjotter, no idea tbh...
<cyphermox> flocculant: xubuntu probably still load compositing in many cases?
<cyphermox> tbh, I don't know
<flocculant> anyway - if you want something other than ubuntu to be tested feel free to ping me :)
<pjotter> knome: Np... it's a long shot I know.
<flocculant> cyphermox: yea but not compiz 
<knome> pjotter, maybe it doesn't have all required pulseaudio things
<cyphermox> flocculant: if you want to spin up a 14.04.4 and use update-manager -d to upgrade to xenial, that's useful
<cyphermox> it would be my next step
<cyphermox> but then I also need to do this with servers too
<knome> he doesn't want, trust
<flocculant> cyphermox: well I update-manager -d -c as per the testcase earlier 
<knome> me
<knome> but he will...
<flocculant> cyphermox: and it hung 
<pjotter> Well, I installed all the pulseaudio things, I could think of. But just pulseaudio and pavucontrol should do the trick, I thought.
<cyphermox> flocculant: hung how?
<cyphermox> hung as in the whole desktop crashes?
<flocculant> cyphermox: hang on - I grabbed a screenshot of where
<flocculant> cyphermox: yea - dead as the proverbial
<knome> hung like a young lamb at the butchers
<pjotter> It's not that it doesn't completely. For the most part, it works. But It doesn't per-application soundcard settings.
<cyphermox> well, graphics not changing is very different from the screen going all blank (when it's not stuck behind a screensaver, anyway)
<flocculant> cyphermox: http://postimg.org/image/jff7qtz91/ - was in vbox jfyi 
<ali1234> did the mouse pointer still move?
<flocculant> it had been on udisk2 for ~ 30 minutes or so 
<flocculant> ali1234: nope
<ali1234> that's really bad then
<flocculant> nor keyboard working
<ali1234> mouse pointer is separate from compositing in xfwm
<davmor2> cyphermox: I have a feeling it is deeper than just compiz I'm wondering if it is xstack disappears during upgrade and compiz just dies a million deaths
<cyphermox> possible, I just haven't made it there yet
<cyphermox> davmor2: I'll get to upgrade servers very soon
<davmor2> flocculant: man that's cute you still use vbox ;)
<flocculant> cyphermox: anyway - that's where I got to - happy to do whatever you want
<cyphermox> davmor2: I'm thinking, upgrade a server with no X installed, see if that explodes (it probably doesn't), then upgrade a server on which X has been installed with a very minimal desktop, just enough to run update-manager, and see if that explodes
<flocculant> davmor2: I got fed up with kvm root owning the images 
<cyphermox> if the second fails, it means it's X
<flocculant> davmor2: generally I tend to ignore any fails I get with vb and iso's :p
<cyphermox> if not, it means it's in some X libs that only do things in some cases (eg. compositing) or something above X
<davmor2> cyphermox: sounds like a game plan
<cyphermox> it's as scientific as I can think of right now ;)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<cyphermox> menus are for restaurants, anyway
<flocculant> mmmm
<flocculant> food
<davmor2> flocculant: yeah vbox died on me one time when I needed it so I switch to kvm + uefi + secureboot + hardware specifics + you get the idea :)
<Unit193> cyphermox: Are you the ubiquity guy now, btw?
<flocculant> Unit193: I think he has been for some time :)
<flocculant> davmor2: I actually only use it to smoketest images and installation 
<flocculant> I upgrade to 'dev' just after release and run that for us 
<flocculant> I think I've managed 5 days of using a released version in the last few years
<cyphermox> Unit193: yes
<davmor2> flocculant: one nice thing for me is I have a cron job that pulls the images daily, and with kvm I can use gvfs to connect to the isos on the server and boot it from there save the hassle of transfers :)
<Unit193> cyphermox: Not sure what, but keeps crashing near the end of the install process, not sure what's changed or why it doesn't happen on desktop images: https://bitbucket.org/snippets/unit193/ERyrq
<cyphermox> wow cool
<cyphermox> you got that for en?
<Unit193> en_US in my case, yeah.
<ochosi> flocculant: my mail quota is exceeded?
<ochosi> you mean @ebt.at?
<ochosi> (crap, i should really remove that email address from right about everywhere..)
<flocculant> ochosi: yea was ebt
<ochosi> :/
<flocculant> blame knome ... 
<ochosi> use any other addr pls
<flocculant> I didn't do anymore than reply all :)
<flocculant> ochosi: did you get the Wallpaper Contest site testing, part 2 at all? 
<ochosi> nope
<flocculant> I'll forward it then :)
<ochosi> ty
<flocculant> ochosi: xfce.org ok? 
<ochosi> sure
<flocculant> ochosi: done - included replies so far ( from me ;) )
<flocculant> davmor2: I'm generally only interested in *our* ones - so a zsync alias grabs them and removes the .old
<flocculant> anything else I get when needed
<knome> ochosi, that's the main email for your LP apparently,
<knome> ochosi, it was the registered email on the contest site
<ochosi> knome: k, not anymore
<knome> ochosi, good :P
<ochosi> why is the xubuntu bugs team subscribed to issues against "convertall"?
 * knome shrugs
<knome> maybe somebody tries to convert us to something
<ochosi> seems like it
<flocculant> maybe Jackson did it
<flocculant> no need to be subscribed to abiword or gnumeric next year eventually too I guess
<flocculant> ochosi: you likely to be about for friday's meeting? 
<ochosi> yup, let's drop abiword and gnumeric then
<ochosi> flocculant: it's not very likely unfortunately cause we have friends (with baby) over for an evening together
<flocculant> ochosi: okey doke - just checking :)
<flocculant> would hate to #endmeeting just as you showed up 
 * knome thinks it would be teh funnee
<flocculant> ochosi: I guess xubuntu bug admin has to unsubscribe us - that's you :p
<flocculant> knome: lol 
<flocculant> given that Noskcaj has just responded to that convertall thing - I suspect he subscribed us when subscribing himself 
<knome> hah :)
<ochosi> ok, removed us from convertall
<ochosi> thanks for the hint flocculant ;)
<ochosi> btw, if there's anything you wanna discuss ahead of tomorrows meeting lemme know
<flocculant> :p
<ochosi> shall i remove us from abiword and gnumeric too?
<flocculant> don't think so
<flocculant> bah
<ochosi> i mean it's not like we're really going to fix anything there
<flocculant> that was re meeting
<flocculant> ochosi: no - but perhaps we should stay subscribed till we EOL trusty
<ochosi> and 14.04 will soon be superseded (even if not EOL) by 16.04
<flocculant> though that is another year I guess
<ochosi> alrighty, i guess i can set up an email filter for myself ;)
<knome> ochosi, you sure you don't need a secretary for that?
<ochosi> knome: why, can you recommend a reliable and affordable one?
<knome> yes to former, no to latter
<flocculant> ochosi: actually about the meeting - only thing is perhaps your thoughts on core
<flocculant> knome and others and I were discussing the other night - perhaps leaving to release on .1 rather than in a few weeks
<ochosi> sorry to ask, but what's the status on that?
<knome> no official ISOs yet
<flocculant> ochosi: no change at the moment
<flocculant> to the status of it
<flocculant> uninstallable currently as it stands 
<flocculant> infinity was hoping to get it done before final beta
<ochosi> ok, so the naming problem is resolved?
<flocculant> yea
<ochosi> plus, any other outstanding blockers?
<ochosi> (other than not being installable yet)
<ochosi> well taht's good to hear
<flocculant> ochosi: not that we're aware of 
<ochosi> so it's only about infinity finding some time to merge..?
<flocculant> ochosi: currently with my QA hat on - I am right on the edge now 
<ochosi> wbat
<ochosi> what edge is that?
<flocculant> the one seperating perhaps we can get this tested and in for April from there's no way I'm even trying now :)
<flocculant> with the desktop stuff - unless something went terribly terribly wrong - I'd be happy to mark it with 1 test
<ochosi> mhm
<flocculant> not doing that with something this new 
<ochosi> yeah, but is it really that new? i mean apart from a shorter seed i don't see major differences
<ochosi> Unit193: correct me if i'm wrong
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> I can install the desktop :p
<flocculant> and it *does* get tested by more than just a couple of people 
<flocculant> I've said all along that if it got too close then I'd not be happy 
<ochosi> :)
<flocculant> so don't be surprised that I'm not at week 21 of 26 :p 
<ochosi> sure sure
<flocculant> :D
<bluesabre> evening all
<flocculant> evening bluesabre :)
<knome> 'lo
<bluesabre> 'ey 'ome
<flocculant> oic
<bluesabre> orly?
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> night peeps
<bluesabre> nighty flocculant
<ochosi> night y'all
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-18
<flocculant> there was an update to apt yesterday(ish) ... includes * methods/gpgv: Reject weak digest algorithms 
<flocculant> that'll be any ppa that I've got :p http://paste.ubuntu.com/15413340/
<dkessel> flocculant: i think the mail about the change said it would first only issue warnings for weak algorithms, and later (june?july?) issue errors...
<dkessel> it should still work
<dkessel> i guess that need re-signing of all launchpad ppas then =)
<flocculant> yea still does - or I assume so 
<flocculant> dkessel: I guess so - I wonder how many ppa's there are lol
<dkessel> flocculant: only 23k :D https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> I bet 22k are dead :p
<Unit193> Yeah just warnings so far.  And, LP 1331914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1331914 in Launchpad itself "Allow users to re-generate a PPA signing key" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1331914
<Unit193> flocculant: BTW, .8 will make that warning much more clear.
<cyphermox> flocculant: seems like xubuntu upgrades to 16.04 just fine
<cyphermox> well, just fine being, it doesn't crash like what davmor2 noticed; on xubuntu, running in qemu/libvirt
<flocculant> cyphermox: crashes in vbox
<flocculant> unless there have been updates since this time yesterday
<flocculant> cyphermox: also depends what you mean - 15.10 upgrades ok 
<cyphermox> right, but vbox is special
<flocculant> cyphermox: or qemu is ;)
<cyphermox> I'm skipping it for now, because once we know upgrades in general work, then fixing some quirks of the virtualizer is easier-ish
<flocculant> I can try a hardware one over the weekend 
<cyphermox> well, hardware seemed to behave the same as qemu
<flocculant> got a trusty that I have only used once since 14.10 started development :p
<flocculant> unless it was a vanilla .4 install
<flocculant> cyphermox: I'll let you know how it goes
<flocculant> looks like it's .3 
<flocculant> cyphermox: before I do that - did it actually upgrade? 
<cyphermox> the what?
<flocculant> the 14.04 
<cyphermox> well, to me things look like they're upgrading
<cyphermox> I'm still waiting for my test to finish with screensaver disabled
<flocculant> oh ok - I assumed it was done and dusted not in progress :)
<flocculant> !team | meeting in 5 minutes ish ... 
<ubottu> meeting in 5 minutes ish ...: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Mar 18 18:01:21 2016 UTC.  The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<flocculant> who's here for the meeting then? 
<kryten> o/
<flocculant> hi kryten :)
<kryten> Hi. :)
<knome> kind of
<flocculant> ok ... 
<knome> eg. will be reading, but replies can be slow
<flocculant> right 
<slickymasterWork> knome, pleia2, can you please spread https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-March/011082.html in our media channels
<slickymasterWork> and afternoon all
<flocculant> hi slickymasterWork 
<flocculant> so some are here - I'll crack on then
<flocculant> #topic Open Action Items
<flocculant> hard to find them 
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> seems there are just me kryten and knome reading and replying slowly
<kryten> :D
<knome> yes
<flocculant> this'll be quick then :)
<Nairwolf> hi, I'm here for the meeting
<flocculant> #subtopic Wallpaper Contest
<flocculant> further to the e-mail to the dev list - testing has been going on, we should (afaik) be ramping that up next week
<flocculant> #subtopic Slideshow
<flocculant> that got worked on - the new slideshow is there on images
<flocculant> #subtopic Gnome software
<flocculant> that's been agreed - the image includes gnome software now instead of usc
<Nairwolf> oh that's great
<flocculant> #topic Updates and Announcements
<Nairwolf> Do we nee specific tests on Gnome Software ? 
<knome> slickymaster, tweeted
<flocculant> #subtopic Change to Strategy Document
<knome> flocculant, yep, planning on mon/tue announcement for contest
<knome> seems like the vote went through, i'll merge today
<flocculant> this had 4 positive votes in the last meeting - took that to mailing list - 3 more postive votes - passed 
<flocculant> #topic Discussions
<flocculant> so of the 3 of us who are here from team - do we have time to work through them or not? 
<flocculant> that's for kryten and knome to reply to :p
<knome> which ones?
<knome> i have time, but still slow to reply..
<flocculant> the 3 live ones - pdf/beta and core
<flocculant> not sure we can deal with core
<flocculant> #subtopic Final Beta
<flocculant> easy one :p
<flocculant> We'll be calling for testing for this early next week
<knome> base stuff *should* be merged for final beta, but we'll see..
<flocculant> as is the norm - now we've reached Final Beta we'll be including 'users' for that
<knome> ack
<flocculant> I'll be looking at where we are for upgrades - seems that the fails could be vbox related - unsurprisingly ... 
<flocculant> #subtopic Core/Base image
<flocculant> <knome> base stuff *should* be merged for final beta, but we'll see..
<flocculant> QA's position is that this is really close to the wire
<knome> yep
<knome> as discussed, we can release desktop normally and then postpone base until .1
<flocculant> there was discussion amongst people about moving this back perhaps to 16.04.1
<knome> if we want, that is
<knome> heh :)
<flocculant> yea
<Robin___> Hello everybody :)
<flocculant> not much we can really do here till there's something happened :)
<flocculant> hi Robin___ :)
<Nairwolf> flocculant, you can count on me if you need tests
<flocculant> and a belated hi Nairwolf too :)
<Robin___> A few months ago I applied to help with the translation of Xfce to Esperanto, but since then I have never received any message in return... Can somebody here please help me?
<flocculant> #subtopic PDF's in Documentation 
<flocculant> Robin___: we're in the middle of a meeting - can you wait a while please :)
<Robin___> Okay, I will come back in a few hours :)
<flocculant> so currently pdf's fail to build with the docs
<knome> Robin___, 15 mins is fine
<knome> re: PDFs, we're looking to that with krytarik
<flocculant> yep 
<knome> it's a "simple" file not found error
<flocculant> knome: ack
<knome> not sure why option #1 works locally and not with build, and option #2 the opposite
<flocculant> :)
<knome> the easy but hacky way is some symlinks
<flocculant> kryten: anything to add ? 
<kryten> Nope.
<flocculant> ok - I've nothing to add to it
<flocculant> thanks to all concerned in getting where we have with the updates though :)
<flocculant> knome: nothing to add more to that I assume
<knome> no
<flocculant> #topic Any other business
<flocculant> anyone got anything? 
<Nairwolf> Maybe I've missed when you talked about the wallpaper contest, but we should launch it as soon as possible
<flocculant> you missed it :)
<flocculant> early next week 
<Nairwolf> ok ;)
<Nairwolf> fine
<flocculant> ok - I'll wrap this up then
<flocculant> #topic Schedule next meeting
<flocculant> bluesabre to set up the next meeting
<flocculant> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Mar 18 18:21:49 2016 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-03-18-18.01.moin.txt
<flocculant> and may $deity have mercy on his soul :p
<Robin___> I see the meeting has ended... So, let me reask my question. Can somebody here please help me to become an Esperanto translator for Xfce?
<flocculant> logs are up
<knome> Robin___, xfce specifically or xubuntu generally?
<Robin___> I am currently using Xubuntu 15.10 in Esperanto and lots of the current strings are still in English
<flocculant> left pdf's and core on it for next time
<Robin___> I am already a translator for Ubuntu specifically, but I would also like to help with Xfce, which is part of Xubuntu
<Robin___> But Xfce is not managed on Launchpad, but on Transifex
<flocculant> bluesabre: I forwarded a mail to our list with talk of qt4 on it 
<knome> Robin___, looking at it, you could join #xfce-dev if i happen to get a hold of somebody who's managing the xfce team(s) on transifex
<Robin___> Okay, let me resend my question there, thank you knome :)
<Nairwolf> flocculant, I'm reading your email about qt4, I don't understand everything. Why it's bad to have qt4 ? 
<knome> Nairwolf, xubuntu uses the gtk toolkit, so we don't want qt on our images
<Nairwolf> ok, that makes sense, and can we delete easily qt dependencies on your images ? 
<flocculant> knome: ty
<knome> Nairwolf, we aren't affected by the original mail in question, that's what flocculant is implying on his message
<flocculant> Nairwolf: this is why I forwarded it to us "We could make qt4 recommends them, but then they would be pulled in on other desktops environment where they are not needed ... how would other flavors feel about that?"
<flocculant> brb
<Nairwolf> okay, so flocculant, you have answered them that we are not agree with that ?
<Nairwolf> also, don't you think it would be great to have a specific testcase for gnome software ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: I've not answered anyone - not my place - someone from our devs will see it 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: re g-s, I would expect that ubuntu will test it
<flocculant> we never tested usc either
<Nairwolf> ok, so it's not our job to test g-s, okay
<Nairwolf> most of guy who works on xubuntu are in the Xubuntu Team, right ? 
<knome> the xubuntu team or one of the subteams usually
<Nairwolf> ok
<Nairwolf> thank you knom
<Nairwolf> hi guys, have you already seen this bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-basicfilesystems/+bug/990744dd
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990744 in partman-basicfilesystems (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu installer says: The creation of swap space in partition failed" [High,Triaged]
<flocculant> yes
<flocculant> sometimes it gets seen
<Nairwolf> ok, it's a really annoying bug...
<flocculant> apparently so - you asked the same thing a while back :)
<Nairwolf> yes, it's true... Because I suspect this bug could occur if you have a windows machine, and you want to install xubuntu with the option "erase disk and install"... 
<Nairwolf> maybe I'm wrong and it's specific with linux distribution because it seems related to swap partition.
<knome> Nairwolf, what are you exactly after with this discussion?
<knome> the bug is filed, we are aware of it and it's triaged and marked with high priority
<Nairwolf> I'm not sure how to have a nice workaround when I have this bug, and I would like to know how you deal with that. What I'm doing to fix it is "boot on the live session, use gparted to remove all installed partition, check "swapoff" for swap partition". When I've removed everything of my machine, it seems to work
<Nairwolf> today, it was the case, but few days ago, I couldn't install the daily image because of this bug, and I didn't find a workaround
<knome> then the result for the ISO tests should be failed with this bug in the critical field
<flocculant> Nairwolf: what you shouldn't expect is for *us* to fix this 
<flocculant> I've never hit it - ever 
<flocculant> I know 2 people who have - you and bluesabre :)
<knome> ok, the strategy document is pushed to the y-series branch for the docs
<knome> +changes
<Nairwolf> oh, I don't expect you fix that, I just wanted to know if you have this bug, how you deal with that
<Nairwolf> but it's okay, I think I have found a workaround tonight
<knome> as i tried to explain... you don't need to deal with that
<knome> if you can't finish the test with the instructions on the tracker, then the test fails
<knome> and you don't need to find a workaround to fix it
<knome> that's the whole point of having the option to fail a test
<flocculant> knome: will the changes not be in the xenial docs? 
<knome> flocculant, we'll have to discuss that
<knome> the string freeze is gone, so it'd technically need an exception
<knome> which is not a problem per se
<Nairwolf> knome, sorry, I think I don't speak correctly. When I have this bug, and I can't install xubuntu, yes, I write that the test is failed. 
<Nairwolf> I wanted to find a workaround for myself, in order to continue to test
<Nairwolf> If I can't install xubuntu, I can't test, you understand ? 
<flocculant> knome: that point wasn't made clear in any of the discussion about the change
<knome> Nairwolf, but you shouldn't continue to test.
<knome> flocculant, nope... but realistically speaking, the exception is not a problem
<flocculant> knome: and it seems rather silly to change something half way through the LTS cycle - then not have it on the LTS docs ;)
<knome> flocculant, agree
<flocculant> kind of not the point here :)
<knome> flocculant, but i'm not sure if i agree about translating the XSD to begin with completely
<flocculant> ? 
<flocculant> now you've completely confused me :)
<knome> flocculant, and i'm not completely sure if it's the best idea to maintain the contributor docs in the same branch as the user docs, because the other is release-specific, the other isn't
<knome> this is kind of siderailing...
<flocculant> ha ha ha
<knome> ...but it's all related to this situation we have now
<flocculant> yea - I can see that as an issue
<Nairwolf> knome: the test is failed if I'm trying to install xubuntu with an image already installed "erase and install option", if my computer is completely empty, the installation works
<knome> flocculant, but splitting them would also mean maintaining the assets in two places and having to update them twice...
<flocculant> yea 
<Nairwolf> for example, tonight, I have encountered this bug, after removing everything I can install xubuntu, and it seems to work, now. 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: dude - the test failed 
<flocculant> you failed it - report it
<knome> Nairwolf, i guess i get what you are saying now
<Nairwolf> I've done it : http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/351/builds/114894/testcases/1300/results
<Nairwolf> oh, great knome
<knome> Nairwolf, but i don't know why you are talking about a workaround; it's just setting a different target environment
<flocculant> Nairwolf: please write down EXACTLY the situation this fails for you on - partition setups etc - pastebin it and I'll see if I can confirm
<Nairwolf> ok, I will try to do that
<knome> flocculant, what he means is that if he installs xubuntu, then he needs to clean up the system to be able to run *another* ISO test
<flocculant> knome: well - I do that perhaps 5 times a week ... 
<knome> flocculant, eg. the problem is in what happens between two tests
<Nairwolf> that's right knome. Sorry, sometimes my english sucks, and I can't express myself correctly...
<knome> flocculant, ack
<flocculant> Nairwolf: that's ok - we get there in the end
<flocculant> knome: so are you saying that if we have doc(s) as they are - we need to muck about with the LTS one anytime the contr stuff changes ?
<Nairwolf> I wanted to ask you other things, I've seen mousepad bugs, I think that one bug is a duplicate but I'm afraid to be wrong, can you help me to confirm ? 
<Nairwolf> I believe that this bug ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mousepad/+bug/1537337 ) is a duplicate of this bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mousepad/+bug/1508192)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1537337 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "Syntax highlighting no more working in 4.0 mousepad version" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1508192 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "Mousepad search highlights hard to see" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Nairwolf> what do you think ? 
<flocculant> never be afraif 
<Nairwolf> flocculant: so I mark it as duplicate and I hope that someone will verify that ? 
<knome> flocculant, actually no... what i'm saying that if changes happen in the contributor docs when the docs freeze is in effect, we're in a weird situation
<flocculant> mmk
<knome> flocculant, and obviously since contributor docs are not release-specific, it is kind of weird to track them in a release-specific environment
<flocculant> so that weird situation is going to occur often for the lts version I guess
<knome> flocculant, instead, they should just have one branch
<flocculant> yea - I totally get that
<flocculant> right
<knome> (ideally, from the technical POV)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: they don't look to be the same thing 
<flocculant> my one is specifically about the colour of highlights for some poor old thing with old eyes - just like me :)
<knome> but then that means we would have the assets (eg. the docbook stylesheets, css stylesheets, PDF creation scripts, translation scripts, etc - you get the idea) in two different branches - and if we wanted to change them, we'd need to do the changes in two different branches
<flocculant> ok
<knome> that was the main reason to not split it up originally
<Nairwolf> oh, i'm stupid, yes it's not the same thing at all !
<flocculant> knome: so how often would they be likely to change? 
<flocculant> the assets that is
<knome> flocculant, unfortunately i think at least once a cycle
<knome> ideally, once in 2 years
<knome> or sth
<flocculant> right
<knome> i mean now that we have most of the docbook-related stuff laid out, it should be less
<knome> but if (and as) we want to keep the doucmentation consistent with the website visual look, we'll need to land some changes whenever we change the website
<knome> it's not 1:1, but there are things we want to keep fresh
<knome> s/we/i/
<flocculant> obviously the contr stuff is likely to change more regularly - if for no other reason than we're putting stuff there
<knome> yes
<knome> but the content isn't the issue
<knome> ...in a way at least
<knome> let's talk hypothetically:
<flocculant> let's put the kettle on then ... 
<knome> after 16.04 is released, we need a major change in the contributor docs - in this situation, let's imagine in the strategy document or something else very static
<knome> so we change the stuff and it gets uploaded in 16.10
<knome> should the 16.04 branch get the update too?
<knome> it's still not EOL by far
<flocculant> yes should get the update 
<slickymaster> I'd say yes
<knome> but hypothetically, the contributor documentation there could be awkwardly wrong
<flocculant> the SD isn't different from one cycle to the rest or shouldn't be
<flocculant> and wasn't when it was living elsewhere
<knome> yes
<flocculant> the contr should be a moving thing too
<knome> that's one of the issues we have...
<flocculant> only the user docs should be static 
<flocculant> ever
<flocculant> imho :)
<knome> but note
<knome> the issue is always there if we package the contributor docs at all
<knome> because even if it was a different branch or just different package from the same source, we'd still need updates for the package(s)
<knome> so one way to work around this is
<knome> first, keep maintaining the source in the same branch so we can peruse the shared assets
<knome> but not build it for the package
<knome> so technically, only make it available online
<knome> s/technically/practically/
<knome> the "outdated" contributor docs will still be available in the SOURCE package
<knome> but hey...
<knome> we can at least leave a README or sth to notice people who poke the source
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> this is even pretty easy to change even at this point
<knome> we simply tell the Makefile not to build the contributor docs
<knome> (and change the startpage a bit)
<flocculant> so why is it hard to maintain the same assets in two places? 
<knome> it's not hard, it's stupid
<flocculant> ignoring the someone haas to do it twice
<flocculant> then perhaps it was stupid of us to do what we have :)
<knome> maybe
<knome> but it was the less stupid option imo
<Nairwolf> gnome-software doesn't work at all on the daily ! 
<flocculant> the SD and contr stuff was surely always going to have to be current *now*
<knome> yes
<knome> the option i proposed above is 99.99% the exact same stuff we have done now
<flocculant> so 
<knome> and we would have done all the same things to reach that target if we were going to do it to begin with
<flocculant> online is always correct - stuff served in the image gets a readme to say 'this was correct when released' ? 
<knome> no
<knome> online is always correct
<knome> offline there is a link to online
<flocculant> ok
<knome> in the source package (apt-get source xubuntu-docs) is a note that the contributor docs aren't backwards-maintained
<flocculant> that works for me 
<flocculant> yep
<knome> at the point you pull a source package, you need to know a bit or two anyway
<Nairwolf> flocculant: I know you're busy, answer me when you've finished your discussion with knome. What would be the best cli tools to share you my partition setups. I was thinking to use "parted". 
<knome> flocculant, i'd like to hear input from Unit193, kryten and bluesabre about this though
<flocculant> knome: we're *just* talking about the SD and contr being linked - just to be sure :)
<flocculant> ofc
<knome> flocculant, yes, just the contributor docs
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> flocculant, user docs will continue to live as they are now
<flocculant> yea - SD is part of contr ... 
<knome> flocculant, because they are release-specific (and need to beQ)
<knome> yes
<knome> s/Q/!/
<knome> sigh at typing
<flocculant> yep user docs = release version always ofc
<flocculant> Nairwolf: that or fdisk -l - don't care really as long as I can see what you've got :)
<knome> also this kind of makes more sense for the online docs anyway...
<knome> because currently, i think we're building the contributor docs for each release
<knome> and then once more for the actual /contributors/ subdir
<flocculant> mmm
<Nairwolf> ok, I'm sending you that flocculant
<flocculant> knome: I'd guess the contr stuff should be built when it's needed for them to be up to date
<knome> yep
<knome> exactly
<flocculant> which could in a bad month be often :p
<knome> sure, but if it's a bad month and there is somebody to write the changes, then there is somebody to update the online version
<knome> so it's not a huge issue
<flocculant> yea
<knome> i'll write a mail
<flocculant> knome: ok - I was about to suggest that 
<flocculant> you do that 
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> Nairwolf: g-s in the daily - just installed and removed alarm clock ...
<Nairwolf> I couldn't install anything....
<Nairwolf> I'm trying to encounter the swap bug again
<flocculant> why not don't - and see if someone can confirm it :)
<Nairwolf> I'm trying flocculant
<Nairwolf> oh, ubiquity has freezed...
<flocculant> Nairwolf: how are you testing this? 
<Nairwolf> I'm testing the swap bug. This is my actual setup (https://paste.ubuntu.com/15418492/). I'm trying to use the daily image and install xubuntu by choosing "Erase Ubuntu Xenial Xerus and reinstall"
<Nairwolf> if I meet the bug again, I will give you everything you need
<flocculant> this is hardware not virtual then :)
<Nairwolf> yes, it's hardware, I'm testing with my second computer
<Unit193> flexiondotorg: Check PMs.
<Nairwolf> I believe it's better to test with real hardware
<flocculant> Nairwolf: most of the cycle it's not going to make huge difference apart from outliers 
<Nairwolf> indeed, but maybe this is an outlier
<cosimo_> Hi guys. As a new member in the mailing list, and after receiving the latest e-mail from David Pires, which asks for a last call and a last effort for translators, I just want to point out that I'm waiting for approval for about a week now, and still I got no answer. 
<slickymaster> hey cosimo_
<flocculant> cosimo_: I believe that the 'approval' is from elsewhere 
<flocculant> hey slickymaster - just in time :)
<cosimo_> This is totally wrong. After all the help Xubuntu needs, I am still out here awaiting my turn to spend my time helping the team!
<slickymaster> you're waiting approval for what, exactly?
<cosimo_> hi slickymaster ;)
<cosimo_> for entering the Catalan translation team
<Unit193> slickymaster: The translators team we have no control over is my guess. :/
<slickymaster> yes Unit193 
<knome> o hai Unit193 
<cosimo_> as many strings are still missing in the latest daily builds of Xubuntu 16.04 32/64
<slickymaster> cosimo_, that's up to them to approve
<cosimo_> I know, but I just want to share with you guys, that is a shame. 
<knome> this translation madness seriously needs resolved
<cosimo_> Many strings are missing, many Catalan users will be disappointed, here I am wanting to help, and time runs for nothing
<slickymaster> well knome, it's LoCo
<slickymaster> can't you keep poking them, cosimo_ 
<slickymaster> ?
<cosimo_> I sent an e-mail to the LoCo (Catalan) mailing list, but nothing goes thru if isn't approved first, 
<cosimo_> applied for the membership (which is still awaiting approval)
<cosimo_> looks like the LoCo is very quiet, 
<flocculant> loco controls translations? 
<cosimo_> but users, will have a final ISO of Xubuntu with soooo many missing strings
<cosimo_> honestly I don't know who controls translations (I'm new here guys)
<flocculant> yea - was a general question :)
<flocculant> slickymaster: is that right? 
<cosimo_> but I wanted to share it here, just to let you know that with this organization, there is no way to make a good product. 
<knome> cosimo_, we're aware of the issue
<Nairwolf> flocculant: I've encountered the bug again. I'm sending you steps to reproduce. I will leave the chan soon, we should talk about it later. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15418664/
<flocculant> Nairwolf: ok - I'll be about off and on during the weekend
<cosimo_> that's good to know knome. So, if anyone, ever knows a way to help me, to help ;) I'll be waiting 
<cosimo_> slickymaster: I would love to answer your mail!
<Nairwolf> okay flocculant, do you have my email adress ? You can contact me by mail if you need more information. 
<Nairwolf> Maybe I wrong, but I have doubt you can reproduce this error with a VM, as it seems to be hardware related. 
<knome> cosimo_, i might be able to get you in the team, but possibly not until monday..
<slickymaster> yeah, I know cosimo_, unfortunately there's nothing we can do, also
<cosimo_> that would be good anyway :)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: could be hardware issue - in which case no I don't have a 500Gb drive I can repurpose :)
<knome> slickymaster, dpm is an administrator on the team, so we might be lucky... but he isn't online right now
<cosimo_> I'll keep waiting, you have my e-mail in the mailing list. Thank you again and greetings from Barcelona.
<slickymaster> was just checking that knome 
<flocculant> knome: I've never taken much notice of this stuff - but is the sticking point the LoCo ?
<slickymaster> the propsed members list is huge 
<slickymaster> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ca/+members#active
<cosimo_> see?
<knome> the problem is the same with most translation teams
<slickymaster> yes
<Nairwolf> flocculant: okay, I'm not sure being able to help more to fix this bug. 
<cosimo_> shouldn't this be a little more "controlled" ?
<flocculant> people on that list from 10 years ago ...
<cosimo_> this looks like a group of friends, taking all the power for themselves. 
<flocculant> you'd think there would be a main translator team 
<knome> flocculant, i was thinking the same thing, and i will totally make that happen
<slickymaster> cosimo_, please contact David Planella (http://davidplanella.org/contact/) is admin in the Ubuntu Catalan Translators
<knome> cosimo_, it's just people who have been active in 2008 when they joined, but then went away
<cosimo_> good stickymaster, I'll do it right now.
<flocculant> maybe should involve the CC
<knome> flocculant, we have a meeting coming up about the future of the docs team, i'll bring this up there
<slickymaster> good point flocculant 
<flocculant> knome: was my next suggestion :)
<slickymaster> btw knome, according to http://doodle.com/poll/dqsryhnkfwgantb2, that was suposed to be today
<Unit193> knome: Howdy.
<knome> slickymaster, that was one of the options.
<knome> slickymaster, i believe it will actually be on 24th
<slickymaster> ok
<flocculant> all this talk from everywhere about making things easier for people to contribute - not coming across as the norm here :p
<slickymaster> right you are,flocculant... right you are
<cosimo_> making thigs easier for people to contribute in the slightest way, will only make things better for everyone. I am still surprised how hard it is to get involved. 
<flocculant> cosimo_: well you can at least see that we try and make it easy :D
<knome> translations are one of the most problematic area for sure 
<Unit193> Quite.
<cosimo_>  absolutely flocculant! I must say that in this IRC everyone has been extremely helpful. 
<flocculant> cosimo_: you will soon come to realise I just pretend :D
<Unit193> cosimo_: Except me, always have to have one crankypants!
<Nairwolf> ;)
<cosimo_> flocculant:  so you will too ;)
<cosimo_> Unit193: crakncky Unit193, :-S 
<cosimo_> good night everyone.
<slickymaster> good night cosimo_ 
<flocculant> night cosimo_ 
<slickymaster> and please don't give up
<flocculant> zebedee is calling
<flocculant> cya all next time :)
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<slickymaster> cu maÃ±ana flocculant 
<knome> ok, email sent about the docs stuff
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-19
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howja.
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<knome> waiting for your comments on the docs mail :)
<bluesabre> replied
<knome> \o/
<knome> also, another question
<knome> would it be sensible to package just the user docs?
<knome> i mean, leave the contributor docs out of the source too?
<knome> because we don't really need it there, we just want to use the same assets
<bluesabre> doesn't make sense to duplicate assets across two branches, that creates extra overhead and leads to mismatched assets down the line.
<knome> yes
<knome> but can we leave out the contributor docs out of the (source) pkg for good even if they are in the same branch?
<knome> because that would be even better
<knome> if it's a lot of work though, it might not be worth it to rip it off
<knome> because when i wrote the mail i was just thinking "let's just not build the contributor docs"
<knome> compared to "let's not have the contributor docs in the package at all"
<bluesabre> it'd be some work - we'd have to make some changes to the makefile to create a new distributable source package (like `make distcheck`)
<bluesabre> so it'd be like building a release for xfce software like parole, etc
<knome> would that be one-off work though?
<bluesabre> yes, should be a single time thing
<knome> right, then that might be something we might want to pursue
<knome> (no pressure..)
<bluesabre> then future releases would be: 1) update version numbers in configure 2) make distchec 3) create package from generated source tarball
<knome> how do you see this
<knome> would it be better to do what you just described, or would it be just fine having some extra stuff (that's potentially outdated) in the source package?
<bluesabre> i think its fine to have extra stuff in the source package
<bluesabre> libreoffice, for example, has extra themes in its source package that may or may not be built based on if you're in debian or ubuntu
<knome> yeah, but the point is that they might be valuable for some people
<knome> and themes do not get "outdated" in the same way as documentation does
<knome> i don't know if you read the whole discussion we had before already (probably not), but we also discussed about having to do SRU-like updates for the docs package for the contributor stuff
<bluesabre> yeah, but if we're not building them and have direct links indicating the the up-to-date docs are online...
<knome> to make sure anybody running, say, 16.04 doesn't have the correct contributor stuff...
<knome> s/correct/incorrect/
<bluesabre> i think it makes perfect sense to update the docs for SRU
<knome> user docs, yes
<knome> but contributor docs?
<knome> it kind of feels a bit moot
<knome> the contributor docs are *never* release-specific
<bluesabre> unless they're in the `trusty`, `xenial` branches, right?
<knome> nope.
<knome> not even then
<knome> they are only in those branches because they have to be
<bluesabre> I think I might be confused then
<bluesabre> what do we mean by user/contributor docs?
<knome> user is the usual documentation
<knome> contributor is the stuff that has the strategy document etc.
<knome> user --> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1510/C/index.html
<bluesabre> if you're going to contribute, you'll have to connect to the internet, unless we accept flash drives in the mail, right? :D
<knome> contributor --> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/
<knome> ...how are you going to contribute to xubuntu without a internet connection anyway?
<bluesabre> right
<knome> send a pigeon with a 10-page diff?
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> works for xfce, no commits in that time
<knome> /o\
 * bluesabre burns himself
<knome> anyway, too borderline that this would ever happen
<knome> i thought about that too
<knome> for about 2 milliseconds
<bluesabre> contributor docs can be stagnant in a release, as long as there is a clear indication that the latest are at x
<knome> but we don't want to build them
<knome> so it would mean they are only in the source package
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> so we have a landing page in the user docs
<knome> so the question is if we want to make sure they aren't even in the source
<knome> yes, http://docs.xubuntu.org/1510/
<knome> for 16.04, it actually links to the contributor docs that are built
<knome> ...for now
<bluesabre> I don't think its that big of a deal if they're in the source
<knome> yes
<knome> if you had read my mail... ;)
<bluesabre> pretty sure i did
<knome> " - Since the contributor documentation would still be available in the source package, make sure the source has a note pointing to the newest branch in case somebody wants to build the contributor documentation (I can take this item too)"
<knome> along with " - While keeping both documentation sources in the same branch, drop contributor documentation from the default build target, thus, not shipping it with the built documentation on the ISO"
<bluesabre> who is grabbing the source package to look at docs though?
<knome> i don't know.
<bluesabre> and especially without internet
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> so i guess the only question left is
<knome> is it naughty to essentially change the source package
<knome> with for example a translation update
<knome> meaning, change more than just the translations in the source package
<knome> eg. if/when we have an update for the contributor docs after the docs freeze, then we do the translation update upload
<knome> or are source packages not subject to freezes (when they don't affect the packages itself)
<bluesabre> shouldn't matter then, the docs package that is being created only has translation differences, even if the other source has changed
<knome> "other source"?
<knome> it's still the doc package source
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> bad words
<bluesabre> distracted by cat getting in face and being annoying
<knome> haha
<bluesabre> the other parts of the source (that are not in fact packaged)
<knome> yeah
<knome> if that's not a problem, then ok
<bluesabre> I'd argue if anybody raised questions about it
<knome> ...otoh, if the alternative is to take a one-time task and get the contributor docs out of the package...
 * knome shrugs
<knome> ultimately, i don't care how it's technically dealt with
<knome> as long as it's sensible for all parties involved with it
<bluesabre> I *might* get fancy with a makefile that could accomplish that
<bluesabre> but its a pretty low priority
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> I'd rather just argue with folks
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> i would think the next high priority thing is revert the startpage change
<knome> ok, bedtime
<knome> ttyl
<dkessel> knome: +1 on the contributor Docs change idea
<flocculant> knome: lots of words ... do any mean I need to think again? 
<HaloSponge> Morning flocculant
<flocculant> hi HaloSponge 
<HaloSponge> flocculant: Are you stil 'packaging' for 16.04, like Kubuntu is doing at the moment ?
<flocculant> HaloSponge: afaik other than any bug fixes landing - we'll not be adding anything now
<flocculant> or shouldn't be 
<HaloSponge> ok ... What's on the agenda for Xubuntu over the next few weeks, then ?
<flocculant> wallpaper competition
<flocculant> testing
<flocculant> bit late to be adding things now
<HaloSponge> I'll do some testing for you .
<flocculant> \o/
 * HaloSponge makes a promise :)
<flocculant> HaloSponge: do you read the dev mailing list? 
<flocculant> if you do - that's where I call for anything ;)
<HaloSponge> Xubuntu seems to have come a_long way :)
<flocculant> it has :)
<flocculant> I remember looking way way back and wandering off
<HaloSponge> I concur.#
<HaloSponge> I remember the screensaver was a pet peev, of mine. Kept coming on after I'd changed the settings to 'blank' the screen ... with no way around it.
<HaloSponge> i.e. I wanted screensaver to go away.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> well I never had issues like that 
 * HaloSponge is very clever .
<HaloSponge> He's done csomething for the first time.
<HaloSponge> I pasted this link....
<HaloSponge> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs
<HaloSponge> into here.
<HaloSponge> https://www.bountysource.com/search?query=https:%2F%2Flaunchpad.net%2F~xubuntu-bugs
<HaloSponge> But I think I have crashed bountysource, though.
<flocculant> oops
<HaloSponge> Does Xubuntu accept bounties ?
<flocculant> there has been talk about it - but as I never do code I tend to not take much notice 
 * HaloSponge is really Bobba |Fetts Uncle :)
<flocculant> well nice to talk to you - I'm off out for a bit now
<HaloSponge> flocculant: I need a cigarette. Can you think of something interesting to say in the next 4 minutes so I come back to a problem-to-solve or something ? Cheers.
<flocculant> HaloSponge: fix community involvement in testing for us
<flocculant> I'll be back in a couple of hours and will be interested to see what you come up with :)
<HaloSponge> Fair enough. It was a good smoke .. plenty of boats in the bay ... had a chat with a bird or two. Say alot is happening in Spain at the moment. But you can never trust a chaffinch.
<HaloSponge> I'm off .. c u later.
<bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2016-March/001176.html
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea - saw it - wish I could vote for you :)
<flocculant> good luck old chap ;)
<dkessel> what the hell is a debian ".menu" file and does having it in a debian package somehow automatically cause a .desktop file to be created out of it? meh...
<dkessel> trying to understand what the patch for a package would be, to help with the appstream data stuff...
<dkessel> mh nevermind, i might not need to understand that in order to help :p
<HaloSponge> back again .. good racketball session at the club house this 'mornin
<kryten> dkessel: Basically though, both of those are independent.
<bluesabre> dkessel: to answer your first question, https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu.html/ch3.html
<flocculant> wb HaloSponge :)
<HaloSponge> hi there.
 * flocculant has a go with 14.04>16.04 in kvm today 
 * bluesabre wishes flocculant the best
<flocculant> :)
<kryten> GridCube: Ftm, he has asked the same in #ubuntu.
<GridCube> que?
<GridCube> oh, the search scope?
<kryten> "< peterkotan> k1l: yeah i dont really know what to use for" :3
<GridCube> kryten: P: this is -devel
<kryten> And nope. :D
<kryten> Crap. :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: so that failed then ... 
<flocculant> terminal window says it's doing something with /etc/gnome/defaults.list - above that some other thing
<flocculant> funnily enough - all the fails I've seen have faltered at that defaults.list - but above something different - udisks/module-init-tools/libutempter0 - all show defaults.list in the terminal window of the upgrader 
<flocculant> trying with an updated 14.04.1 rather than .4 - cypher mox said he'd got one to upgrade yesterday
<kryten> knome: Btw, I've stopped looking into fixing the PDF build fails properly after suggesting the least bad hacky solution. :P
<kryten> ...Or pointing out, rather.
<bluesabre> sounds to me like the best solution would be find an alternative to fop or stop building PDFs
<flocculant> \o/ 
<flocculant> another thing to apparently hang on
<flocculant> even though the terminal says /etc/gnome/defaults.list ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: jfi - got all the upgrades to eventually get there. Took a fail report on the tracker for me to wake up and dpkg --configure -a
<flocculant> obviously still fail - but at least we can get to a working xenial from trusty
<HaloSponge> Hello peeps ! How's it hanging ?
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1557349
<ubottu> bug 1557349 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole does not hold the media frame when paused in fullscreen mode" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1557349
<pavlushka> if anyone faced the bug #1556531?
<ubottu> bug 1556531 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Login screen needs a click to get alive, otherwise remains black." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1556531
<pavlushka> and is it a crime not to call sudo being root? bug #1556542
<ubottu> bug 1556542 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal flickers while calling any program as root not using sudo." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1556542
<pavlushka> and also I cant set my external display as primary, bug #1556438
<ubottu> bug 1556438 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't set my external display as primary" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1556438
<kryten> pavlushka: Well, if you're already root, no need to call sudo, of course.  But how do you become that in the first place then?  (I'd suggest "sudo -i".)
<pavlushka> set root passwd, then login as root.
<kryten> Eww.
<kryten> !root
<ubottu> Do not try to guess the root password, that is impossible. Instead, realise the truth... there is no root password. Then you will see that it is 'sudo' that grants you access and not the root password. Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh right.  And didn't say last night, but good luck you crazy man.
<knome> flocculant, the mail basically summarises what we discussed and proposes the same thing i said then, so no
<flocculant> knome: ack - was more all the words in channel - not the mail :)
<knome> aha
<ochosi> knome: i presume you've considered adding a link to the devel ML in the dev.x.o header, right?
<knome> ochosi, yes.
<knome> ochosi, have you considered looking at the media manager article?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-20
<pavlushka> why dont the first choice in grub "Ubuntu" has the echo lines??
<pavlushka> dont >> not
<pavlushka> or may be dont
<dkessel> what a nice xerus in the slideshow =)
<knome> :)
<dkessel> is there a menu item for gnome software on a fresh xerus install?
<dkessel> ("do i need to boot up a vm to find the correct translation of the app for the slideshow"?)
<knome> should be...
<dkessel> on my upgraded normal system it still isn't - that's why i am asking
<dkessel> ok i'll fetch the iso and check
<dkessel> also: meow? lol
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> gs should certainly be there on a live session
<dkessel> right. done with german :p
<flocculant> don't doubt it - silly language :p
<flocculant> what you going to use instead :D
<dkessel> haha
<dkessel> i'll wait for the guy who wanted to do the esperanto translation to finish
<flocculant> good luck - afaik they're waiting for loco of some sort - like the cosimo guy and Catalan
<bluesabre> morning all
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> looks like I got a few bug reports yesterday
<flocculant> yea sorry about that
<bluesabre> flocculant must have promised folks some drinks in exchange for testing
<flocculant> testers - who'd have thought it ;)
<flocculant> hopefully those showing up late for the party will hang around for a few cycles :)
<bluesabre> yes
<flocculant> bluesabre: I've been thinking ... 
<flocculant> which is rather dangerous ofc
<flocculant> we should include 'regressions' as part of future testcases
<bluesabre> yes, makes sense to me
<flocculant> if we don't do what we did between 14.04 and 16.04 and tail off package testing
<flocculant> not something we've done previously - but hey-ho
<flocculant> for instance we'd likely have seen the black when paused in parole before a couple of days ago 
<bluesabre> yep
<bluesabre> that's probably related to not using clutter anymore
<bluesabre> and I think I have a fix
<bluesabre> just gotta dig through some really old commits
<flocculant> ok - I did assume that was probably the case
<flocculant> not that you might have a fix and was going to dig through old commits :p
<flocculant> I did at least try the other xv to see if that was different - didn't expect so, and was right 
<bluesabre> the fix being in http://git.xfce.org/apps/parole/commit/?id=50a8a20a7bcdcc9656ecd9c51ea769938bba7378
<bluesabre> I removed gtk_widget_set_double_buffered (GTK_WIDGET (clutter), FALSE);
<bluesabre> since it was deprecated
<bluesabre> but everything else is deprecated anyway, so might as well add it back to improve non-clutter support
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> this line
<bluesabre> gtk_widget_set_double_buffered (GTK_WIDGET (gst), FALSE);
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I'll go ahead and add that back in, and perhaps the parole daily package will be fixed
<flocculant> okey doke - I'll wait for it and see 
<bluesabre> build now pending in lp, so you'll probably see a new package version in ~30 minutes in https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<bluesabre> or the build will fail, which will be more fun ;)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> clutter keeps being a pain 
<flocculant> seemingly :p
<bluesabre> yupppp
<bluesabre> it gives us a lot of improvements when it works
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> not the first time we've set it to xv though ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: so, translation deadline is April 7... do you think we should still try to do translated Create Document templates at this point, or when do you think the realistic cutoff time for that would be?
<bluesabre> indeed
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm pretty laid back about that - not going to take much to check that - so I would say others are the ones to ask - slickymaster etc
<flocculant> it'd be nice - it'd be nice to get more than just txt in there if we can
<flocculant> we sort of stopped thinking about that it seems :)
<bluesabre> most things come back to needing somebody to develop them :)
<bluesabre> I'll see if I can get something realistic together for that this week
<flocculant> yea ofc 
<flocculant> I'm not complaining :)
<flocculant> and not *important* in the scheme of things at all
<bluesabre> putting together my "get crap done before release" calendar
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> I know I can do both the templates and having Templates called something other than that locally
<bluesabre> basically, I need to look at ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs to figure out where to drop the templates
<bluesabre> what templates are we interested in? ODT, ODS... something else?
<flocculant> I think those 2 plus existing 
<flocculant> bluesabre: yup - confirm that works :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: parole?
<flocculant> yea - sorry :)
<bluesabre> great, thanks!
<flocculant> commented on bug 1557349
<bluesabre> the window should also resize nicely with playing video
<ubottu> bug 1557349 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole does not hold the media frame when paused in fullscreen mode" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1557349
<bluesabre> I'll package that up tonight
<bluesabre> have you had a chance to look at xfce4-power-manager and xfce4-panel with their ppa patches?
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep - resizes fine - pauses properly in windowed and fullsized
<bluesabre> I'm going to be out most of today, but going to try to do a bunch of packaging tonight
<flocculant> okey doke
<flocculant> I'll see what gives tomorrow morning then :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> thanks
<flocculant> yw
<flocculant> thank you :)
<knome> bluesabre, maybe we should try to coordinate the docs stuff today then as well..
<bluesabre> knome: ready to upload once I have a branch that's ready to go
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> knome: (unless you're talking about the split source package, in which case I'll still be out all day today)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-13
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, that looks like something that we should include upstream. maybe bluesabre can rebase it on top of master and i'll push it (i have my hands full currently)
<Unit193> ochosi: I looked back through them because Debian Xfce has turned hard away from xscreensaver and towards LL.  We should try to get the others fixed too.
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah makes sense. as i said, i hope bluesabre can rebase it soon so i can merge/push it (should be fairly easy)
<Unit193> Sure, sure.  Just gave more information, not pushing harder. :)
<Unit193> I can't remember outside of whisker and the panel, I already got -session on both sides.
<knome> pleia2, also re: the form... not sure if we want to use recaptcha, we might be better off with a custom solution
<knome> like "what is the codename for xubuntu xx.xx"
<knome> it's very easy to figure out for a human, but harder for a computer
<pleia2> yeah, I don't have a preference really just don't like spam ;)
<knome> me neither
<knome> we might want/need to start with a subdomain... and re: that and on people getting mad since they are not answered, the subdomain could be something like suggestions.xubuntu.org
<knome> or could be questions.xubuntu.org, somehow that feels like not so swift either (it's not answers.xubuntu.org!)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-14
<amerigena> Does Xfce have published human interface guidelines, like KDE?
<knome> amerigena, #xfce-dev is a better place to discuss that, but there is some work done: https://wiki.xfce.org/dev/hig/general and i believe there will be more discussion/writing in the near future as things progress towards gtk3
<amerigena> OK knome
<amerigena> Thank you
<knome> np
<flocculant> bluesabre: changed tag on 1512120 to verification-done-xenial and -yakkety so it's obvious both were checked - what do we do now? given it was 11 days ago now that sil accepted into -proposed
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [cont1704] r629 Changes as per review (by Kev Bowring)
<esdwdftty> Hello. Who knows? Using Fuse for exFAT will work alignment or only read and write? exFAT alignment.
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> lp 1512120
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1512120 in thunar (Ubuntu Yakkety) "[SRU] thunar crashes on file renaming" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512120
<bluesabre> (laziness) :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: didn't do that - thought you might know which sru bug it was :D
<flocculant> and evening to you too :)
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<bluesabre> Oh I knew
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> But getting a link is not easier
<bluesabre> ;)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<bluesabre> flocculant, sent a poke
<flocculant> bluesabre: cheers :)
<bluesabre> Need to send a request out for translations
<flocculant> bluesabre: you seen xfce 13364 ? 
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13364 in general "After moving files, a Ghost file sometimes remains in Detail View" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13364
<flocculant> translations for zesty? 
<flocculant> don't know how to get information for that bug given that it doesn't actually crash or anything 
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> also - can't change the bug title cos it's not detail view - just any view you happen to try :)
<bluesabre> flocculant, how would you like the title to be labeled, I seem to have edit powers
<bluesabre> in fact, I seem to have a lot more powers on there than I used to
<bluesabre> I wonder if ochosi upgraded me to admin so I would stop avoiding bugs
<flocculant> ha ha 
<Unit193> Didn't seem to work...
<bluesabre> indeed
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> I'm a stubborn one
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, xfdashy went ignored on -permissions.
<bluesabre> I see a lot of things going ignored on there
<flocculant> bluesabre: and ummm don't know :p surprise me :) but it doesn't seem to reload in any view at all - even if it's a view of the sea 
<bluesabre> I'm wondering whats happened to canonical's email servers... :)
<Unit193> They turned 'em off.
<bluesabre> ochosi needs to make them xfce bz admins
<bluesabre> flocculant, you can watch this all day to feel better http://imgur.com/a/oMDRx
<flocculant> bluesabre: ha ha ha 
<flocculant> bluesabre: bu are you moving them manually? 
<bluesabre> who knows
<flocculant> eg cut and paste? 
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> touch test.txt; rm test.txt;
<bluesabre> create the illusion of functionality
<flocculant> cos obviously I couldn't be bothered to chase around the interweb pipes with my little hard hat on finding bits to cut and paste - so used zsync instead :D
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> anyway all that aside the best bit of that bug is ...
<flocculant> it doesn't crash :p
<flocculant> very Mr Benn's shop-keeper
<bluesabre> yay for not crashing
<bluesabre> and being able to do basic file management
<flocculant> :)
 * flocculant bids adieu ...
<bluesabre> nighty flocculant 
<bluesabre> dinner time here, bbl
<knome> hmm, food
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> what do you need exactly?
<ochosi> even moar admin powars? :
<ochosi> )
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> hiya
<bluesabre> xfce4-notifyd bugfix release this week maybe? :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh right
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-15
<ochosi> anything else? :)
<bluesabre> ochosi, don't think so, currently
<bluesabre> unless you want to add some translations for sgt-launcher
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/sgt-launcher
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks for the ping - glad to see the back of that issue finally :)
<knome> bluesabre, Games;Puzzles;  <-- surely shouldn't be translated?
<bluesabre> knome, correct
<knome> why is it a translatable string then :P
<bluesabre> Good question
<bluesabre> oh maybe
<bluesabre> knome, that one should be, yes
<bluesabre> that's the Keywords key
<knome> right...
<knome> "SGT Puzzles Collection is a simple-to-use launcher for Simon Tatham's Portable Puzzle Collection." doesn't make sense btw
<knome> but i'll translate it anyway
<knome> :P
 * bluesabre shrugs
<slickymasterWork> which reminds me that I have to find the time to start translating also
<knome> bluesabre, "Playing a short game of Galaxies" is a description for an image?
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> for translation purposes, is the game in progress in the screenshot?
<knome> well, it's now translated as i it
<knome> it is*
<knome> i guess even an unstarted game can be called in progress too :P
<knome> and translated
<bluesabre> knome, doesn't seem to matter, captions are not displayed in gnome-software, but it is http://i.imgur.com/dSlbzEg.png
<knome> good
<slickymasterWork> we have to be broad in our definition of 'in progress', knome 
<knome> finnish is a weird language...
<knome> it's really hard to be ambiguous
<knome> or at least the text then feels weird
<flocculant> davmor2: update manager - 1 line with aptdaemon from -proposed - commented on the bug the other day, which will be as much as I'll do as I never really use it ;)
<davmor2> flocculant: know that feeling I've been forcing myself by setting daily update checks
<flocculant> davmor2: well I use synaptic anyway as I update then have a butchers in -proposed 
<davmor2> flocculant: :)
<flocculant> much like gnome-software I check it once a cycle then purge it :D
<flocculant> davmor2: would have said in -desktop but don't much want a discussion about it :)
<davmor2> flocculant: I know the feeling :)
<flocculant> at least you get paid in more than ethercookies :D
<knome> pleia2, so i got my package from the mail and can confirm i got a piquÃ© polo shirt too
<pleia2> dev server needs a new kernel, so I'm going to reboot it in 5 minutes unless there are any objections
<knome> go ahead
<pleia2> k :)
<Unit193> Oh noooo!  End of the worldsirens.webm!
<Unit193> EndOfTheWorldSirens.webm*
<pleia2> rebooting
<pleia2> and now in the shiny new kernel :) go about your day
<knome> pleia2's in the new kernel?
 * knome goes look at the kernel
<knome> must be a mini-pleia2
<bluesabre> evening all
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-16
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfwm4 4.12.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-12-4-released-tp49004.html (by Olivier Fourdan)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfwm4 4.13.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-13-0-released-tp49005.html (by Olivier Fourdan)
<bluesabre> so.... zesty slideshow?
<flocculant> bit citrusy I expect
<knome> bluesabre, yeah...
<knome> slickymaster, ping
<LordVader> I wish to contribute to the development, is there a vacancy for this?
<flocculant> LordVader: not so much whether there are vacancies - more what can you do? what do you want to get involved with? 
<LordVader> I am Programmer and Security Analyst, lately I have been trying to inform me on how to contribute with open source projects. What would they have?
<flocculant> have you seen http://xubuntu.org/contribute/ ?
<LordVader> What language do you work the most on Xubuntu?
<flocculant> LordVader: I should know this ... mostly by remembering what people say ... 
<flocculant> others will be about in the next hour-ish 
<LordVader> Ok
<flocculant> knome slickymaster I started looking at the slideshow a while back - http://pad.ubuntu.com/xub1704slides is from my notes
<flocculant> that said no idea if we want to do anymore - nothing on any blueprints ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant, C and Python for the apps, and our web team of course
<Unit193> bluesabre: Think we could slip the new xfwm in as a bugfix release, or too late?
<bluesabre> Unit193, I'm cool as long as we get some testing on it
<ochosi> evening folks
<ochosi> i've been using xfwm4 master for a while, that one is dandy (and it has a few commits less than 4.12.x)
<nairwolf> hi everyone ;) 
<nairwolf> I don't remember when there is beta available, do you prefer to test to boot with the beta image or with the Zesty daily ? 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-17
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - maybe one day I'll remember that :)
<slickymasterWork> knome, pong
<knome> slickymasterWork, oi.
<knome> slickymasterWork, the installer slideshow :P
<akxwi-dave>  nairwolf ,  beta 2 is due next week(thursday i think). but testing with daily zesty is also helpful
<slickymasterWork> yeaps, knome 
<slickymasterWork> thought it would be that
<slickymasterWork> do you want to have a sprint on it, this weekend
<slickymasterWork> ?
<knome> yeah, wfm
<slickymasterWork> tbh, there aren't many things requiring change
<slickymasterWork> we don't have anything shinny new to present
<knome> nope
<slickymasterWork> did you see flocculant's pad regarding it?
<slickymasterWork> I must say I agree with his edits
<nairwolf> okay, thank you akxwi-dave 
<akxwi-dave> pleasure
<karqat> is this the channel for xubuntu contributors?
<flocculant> karqat: yes ;)
<flocculant> I wasn't making it up :D
<karqat> hehe
<karqat> I am a 3 year developer who wants to branch into systems development, and I'm not really sure where to start or how to get involved
<flocculant> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<karqat> does this community have any sort of mentorship baked into becoming a contributor?
<knome> there's no formal program, but people will help you out if you are active and communicate/ask
<flocculant> not a developer so not really able to answer, but I would guess people would help 
<knome> we are very active on IRC, so this channel is probably the best way to get to know people, but we also have that development mailing list where we do write to...
<ochosi> karqat: hi! what would you be interested to work on?
<karqat> honestly I'm still reading through some of the docs and the website
<karqat> I don't really know what I'm interested in working on, or really how to begin working on it. I don't have a spare machine to fry if I were to make a catastrophic mistake... so I'm not sure how to go about getting started even
<karqat> the closest I've ever gotten to system work is my raspi
<knome> so what would you be willing to work on?
<knome> developing code?
<knome> testing?
<karqat> yes
<knome> s/willing/interested/
<knome> yes to which one? :)
<karqat> i'm interested in all those things. testing, automation, build stuff, code, bug fixes
<karqat> I want to know 
<karqat> I want to learn
<knome> so regarding development as in code stuff, is there a specific bug that... bugs you?
<karqat> nope
<knome> if yes, then that sounds like a good place to start
<karqat> I use xubuntu
<knome> xubuntu has bugs too ;)
<flocculant> :)
<karqat> sure, but I'm not here for any particular motivation aside from I want to learn systems development
<karqat> so I guess, I don't know what's needed or how to help
<karqat> i hadn't given much thought to "what do I want to do specificaly"
<knome> okay
<knome> then some testing might be a good way to start getting to know the system
<karqat> sweet :)
<karqat> I'm assuming the backlog is on git?
<knome> you don't have to run a development version in order to test btw (even if that's more helpful), you can participate at a level that's comfortable at you
<knome> backlog? of this channel?
<knome> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too. Meetingology logs at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/
<knome> you'll want to be in touch with akxwi-dave or flocculant on testing
<flocculant> karqat: if that's the case - you saw the contributor docs? most of everything is there for testing
<karqat> knome: nah not for the channel, but for what needs doing
<flocculant> but
<flocculant> if you're interested in automating some testing - that would be awesome
<karqat> sure
<knome> karqat, our development tracker - which has been a bit quiet this cycle - can be found at http://dev.xubuntu.org/
<karqat> http://dev.xubuntu.org/ what needs tested?
<flocculant> karqat: now? 
<knome> nope, for that specifically you'll need to look at the iso tracker - but flocculant will tell you...
<flocculant> oic :)
<flocculant> karqat: did you see this http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa ?
<karqat> hadn't found that yet
<flocculant> that gives you overview of the main avenues - more detail starting at http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa.html
<karqat> thanks, I'll read through these
<flocculant> karqat: ok - not about for much more today - what timezone are you? ping me (or akxwi-dave) questions in channel - idle here too if you can if not you can ping us 
<karqat> I'm in mountain time zone
<flocculant> right ... 
<flocculant> somewhere in usa? 
<karqat> yes
<flocculant> karqat: so you're 6 hours behind both me and akxwi-dave - just so you know 
<karqat> alright. I'll try to be on in the morning then
<flocculant> karqat: generally I am online 0700 to 0800 ish (currently local time is utc)
<karqat> cool
<karqat> looking forward to getting cracking
<flocculant> karqat: next week we will be testing the final beta for 17.04 so now's a good time to be starting (from my pov) 
<flocculant> should get frozen some time Tuesday for releae on Thursday
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: you going to have any time for release note?
<Unit193> ochosi: Do you have xfwm commit access?  http://paste.openstack.org/show/YjpXNMCJrksXJGWvtbWr/
<ochosi> Unit193: i guess i do, but i'd rather if you sent that patch directly to ofourdan, he's been around lately
<Unit193> But you're less scary. :3
<Unit193> flocculant: xfwm4 in xubuntu-staging.
<ochosi> :)
<Unit193> Also I figured you'd dislike commits from pastebins less than he would. :P
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah possible
<ochosi> if he doesn't push it i can though
<Unit193> I'm not worried, I saw the note, cloned, fixed, pasted.  Byond that I don't care, not even if  "Duffy McDoogleface <duffy@xfce.org>" is the author of the patch. :D
<flocculant> Unit193: just not yet - be there in morning I guess
<bluesabre> evening all
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<bluesabre> anything I need to know currently?
<flocculant> that time of the year when time means I'm still here when you turn up :p
<Unit193> I pushed the point release of xfwm to xubuntu-staging, though the internet may have eaten it.
<bluesabre> om nom
<flocculant> only some random version of parole there atm
<bluesabre> thanks for the Unit193 
<Unit193> Sure.
<flocculant> bluesabre: who are we thanking - MotherUnit193 ?
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I apparently tab completed and thought it looked right
<flocculant> :D
<Unit193> flocculant: Yeah but implicitly you'd be thanking her for the rest of me too. :P
<Unit193> Do I put 4.13.0 in xfce4-gtk3? :P
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> Go for it
<bluesabre> I don't work tomorrow, have a whole weekend of time to fix the panic
<Unit193> Nice part is we'll be able to sync that from experimental soon.
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> (-DMONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP is the default.)
<bluesabre> oh, thats nice
<Unit193> ...I think it ate my upload.
<Unit193> ochosi: -notifyd?
<Unit193> bluesabre: We might want to at least PPA some backported commits for that, so we can say some testing in case asked.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/4.12.4-0ubuntu1 Oops! :D
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-18
<tracker007> olÃ¡
<tracker007> sou novo no linux
<tracker007> como atualizo por terminal o xubuntu?
<ochosi> first of all, this is a development channel
<ochosi> secondly, we only speak english here
<tracker007> tank
<knome> helicopter
<knome> (hello all)
<akxwi-dave> hi pasi
<knome> heya dave
<akxwi-dave> u ok?
<knome> yep
<knome> and everything ok there as well?
<akxwi-dave> yup not bad
<knome> good good
<flocculant> evening
<knome> hello other brit
<flocculant> hi Finn :p
<knome> o/
<flocculant> knome: with final beta next week - not even going to bother fighting x.org login for a pretty announcement - so if we want one - someone else will have to do it
<knome> can do that, just work on the material $somewhere and point me to it
<flocculant> well release note will be http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes updated
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> greetings from the after sauna state
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-19
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hiiiiiiii.
<bluesabre> Unit193, Heyyyyyyy.
<Unit193> What's happenin'?
<bluesabre> Unit193, nada
<bluesabre> Wanting to be productive... but not managing to make myself productive
<Unit193> :(
<Unit193> There, there.
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> flocculant: i think it's fairly ok to use the panel from git master now, i think i have some overview on the remaining (known) issues and they're not really grave
<ochosi> so i think you can get back to the bugreporting ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-12
<bluesabre> flocculant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1755033 might be related
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1755033 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu daily 20180311 black screen for 5 min on ASUS Eee901" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> xfce4-settings 4.12.2-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<flocculant> bluesabre: could be 
<flocculant> bluesabre: did you see that bluez service issue on the live session xsession-errors too ?
<flocculant> bluesabre: can't see similar in looby lou's xsession-errors
<donofrio> anyone know how to resolve this https://apaste.info/Akyj
<Unit193> donofrio: Not offhand, no.  Can't say I've ever run into it.  You may wish to ask #ubuntu or #ubuntu+1 though.
<donofrio> I am....it looks like this "anyone know how I can get add-repo working I keep getting this gpg message - https://apaste.info/yb2I"
<Unit193> While important to fix, I think I'd just recv the key, export ascii armored, drop that in in the trust db, and move on.
<donofrio> hu?
<Unit193> Basically, gpg --recv-keys 07D44A5424C7C12A4BAB1E80EB563F93142986CE && gpg --armor --export 07D44A5424C7C12A4BAB1E80EB563F93142986CE > newkey.asc && sudo cp newkey.asc /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/xubuntu-dev.asc
<donofrio> Unit193, tried but no furthor - https://apaste.info/7k03
<donofrio> eek now my updates won't update - https://apaste.info/4
<donofrio> wyb
<donofrio> https://apaste.info/4Wyd
<flocculant> ummm - wrong paste I guess
<flocculant> donofrio: not that I'd be able to help - but is on your installed in windows thing?
<Unit193> donofrio: You'll have to kill dirmngr first in that case, it's trying to use root's.
<donofrio> 4Wyb not d
<Unit193> Just remove that key and updates will work again.
<donofrio> ohok
<donofrio> still ipc call failed even when hup'ed from root and started by donofrio
<Unit193> I think your dirmngr is messed up. :P
<donofrio> howto fix?
<donofrio> flocculant, yes http://www.tinyurl.com/donofrio1804
<donofrio> trying to get xfwm4.13
<donofrio> does remove-apt-reposity exits or what file to edit to get updates working again?
<Unit193> donofrio: rm /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/xubuntu-dev.asc
<donofrio> no asc file found only ubuntu-keyrimg-2013-archive.gpg and ubuntu-keyring-2012-cdimage.gpg
<donofrio> keyring-2012 I meant
<donofrio> its late for me sorry for mistypin
<donofrio> Unit193, still not working ;( https://apaste.info/kKn0 
<Unit193> Yes, you said the key had broken it, that can happen when it's malformed.  It was not to solve the missing key issue.
<Unit193> You're going to have to fix dirmngr or some other way get the key.
<donofrio> Unit193, I guess first on my list is get updates "updating again" then I'll whack at dirmngr this afternoon
<donofrio> but how do I repair my system so updates flow again
<Unit193> donofrio: apt-get update is complaining, you can ignore that.  But, remove the sources file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<donofrio> expermental is not in sources
<Unit193> The specific one*
<donofrio> i see now
<donofrio> .d my bad
<donofrio> I have my own python now - neat - updaing and I see python3-louis (spelling wrong I'm lewis lol)
<donofrio> thank you for helping me 2nite/this  morning off to get three hours sleep before work....
<Unit193> Heh, nearly 4 am for me too. :)
<Unit193> ochosi: xfpm plugin with no battery just says 'computer'
<Unit193> (In bold)
<ochosi> Unit193: yup, that's known. what else would you let it say?
<ochosi> at least in the tooltip, that's what it should say
<Unit193> Not bold, 'no battery'?
<knome> ochosi, mmk. i'll see if i have time
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r547 lightdm-gtk-greeter: Simplify theming... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r548 Include Gtk3 window decoration icons in Greybird (Fixes #170... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<ochosi> knome: shouldn't be too hard, maybe creating something in svg first and then tweaking the png would be sufficient (maybe even without much tweaking)
<knome> yep
<Used2BTracker5> A beginners question again if I may: I'm testing Xubuntu 18.04. I have found I can report bugs/observations here, at launchpad, or by way of xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com. What's your preferred way/place to report bugs? Launchpad? xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com? Here?  
<ochosi> the most persistent way is certainly bugreports (my personal opinion)
<ochosi> mailinglists are really not the right medium
<ochosi> if you think immediate feedback is possible and necessary, irc is ok too
<ochosi> depends on whether you're already in a discussion with someone here, then it's easy to mention stuff
<Used2BTracker5> BUgreports being launchpad then?
<ochosi> Used2BTracker5: depends, if you know something is an upstream issue you can report it on bugs.xfce.org
<ochosi> if it's not xfce related maybe launchpad is still the right choice
<ochosi> linking it to our bugs blueprint may also be helpful
<Used2BTracker5> ochosi, thanks for the answers. I don't think I am able (yet) to decide if something is an upstream issue, or not. I didn't know about bugs.xfce.org; I'll have a look over there.
<ochosi> what kind of issues have you identified so far?
<Used2BTracker5> mate-calc crash; sgt puzzles not translated; "weird" messages when starting update-manager from cli; menulibre invalid desktop files
<ochosi> right, none of those are upstream xfce issues
<Used2BTracker5> I have reported these on launchpad
<ochosi> menulibre is maintained by bluesabre 
<ochosi> mate-calc would probably go to the mate team directly
<ochosi> sgt puzzles i'm not sure about
<Used2BTracker5> SGT Puzzles
<Used2BTracker5> Â© 2016-2017 Sean Davis
<Unit193> Used2BTracker5: One normally wouldn't report bugs in here, but sometimes can be useful to talk or ask about something before filing the bug.
<Used2BTracker5> ochosi, you say "mate-calc would probably go to the mate team directly": you mean: when I reported it on launchpad the bugreport went automatically to the dev-team
<ochosi> yeah, that sounds likely
<ochosi> at least the ubuntu mate team
<ochosi> not sure where mate tracks issues, probably github or something
<Unit193> Github.
<ochosi> but anyway, crashes with an application can also be distro specific
<ochosi> so it's definitely not wrong to start reporting something on LP
<Used2BTracker5> So, trying to help to test Xubuntu 18.04, I need to know where teams/people track their issues, and I have to be able to sort of understand about upstream?
<ochosi> to some extent you'll learn that naturally
<ochosi> step by step
<Used2BTracker5> What's the best way to find out where to report issues for a specific programme?
<Used2BTracker5> I don't want to bother you guys too much, but I also don't want to report issues at the wrong place. No point in reporting issues that will never be picked up by the right team.
<ochosi> you can always check where the upstream source is maintained, the bugtracker is usually not far from there ;)
<Used2BTracker5> ochosi, "linking it to our bugs blueprint": how/where do I do that?
<ochosi> this is our roadmap for bionic: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-b-roadmap
<ochosi> you can see all blueprints in the dependency tree section
<ochosi> that includes the xubuntu-b-bugs blueprint
<ochosi> if you go to that blueprint, you can use the "Link a bug report" button to connect LP bugreports
<Unit193> I'll note that if you use `ubuntu-bug`, it attaches a lot of debug info (including crash reports at times.) and files on LP.
<Used2BTracker5> ochosi, thanks! I have added that link to my favorites
<Used2BTracker5> I'll head over there now. Thanks again. Testing what I thought to be one entity "Xubuntu", proves to be a whole different can full of worms :-) I'm not English so this may not make sense to you... still
<willem> I used to be "Used2BTracker5", and I just managed to change my nick to "willem" and claim that as mine, which is nice because, well, it's my name :-)  Thanks krytarik. 
<krytarik> You are welcome. :)
<willem> (Irc is a overwhelming experience; I'll have a cup of tea and a lie down for now...)
<flocculant> willem: hi :) I see that ochosi and Unit193 have explained bugs a bit to you - cool
<Unit193> All ochosi, not me.
<flocculant> :)
<willem> yes, I've been bugging them about bugs, and they've been patient and understanding. :-)
<willem> Long way to go yet.
<willem> For me, that is
<willem> hanks
<willem> Thanks
<flocculant> willem: slow but sure is the way :)
<Unit193> ochosi: To be clear btw, you told me to look, I finally updated the netbook to Bionic thus got the new xfpm, that's something that stood out.  If it's not of interest to you, well...Then there's that. :P
<willem> I'll be off for now, dreaming of bugs and places where not to report them. :-)
<flocculant> night willem 
<ochosi> Unit193: sry, but what stood out?
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> the "Computer" tooltip
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-13
<Unit193> bluesabre: We should seed symbola.
<Unit193> ð¦ðº (
<bluesabre> Unit193: add it to the seed :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: re your comment on how long will my desktop take bug, if that addition actually happened around that time then that kinda fits with how long I've been seeing this problem
<flocculant> can we get that module taken out of our seed?
<ali1234> i think understanding why the delay stops happening after first login is the key to understanding the root cause
<flocculant> ali1234: I agree of course
<flocculant> but I'm also really not wanting to have to do an SRU stright after release again ;)
<ali1234> fair enough
<flocculant> I'd rather people needing something went and got it :D
<flocculant> anyway - up to bluesabre :p
<flocculant> ali1234: thanks for looking at it when you did btw
<bluesabre> flocculant: if it is due to that module, might want to notify -desktop... it's required for any bluetooth audio devices to work
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-14
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r666 * Fix invalid desktop files (LP: #1754888)... (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> OK...
<bluesabre> hi Unit193 
<Unit193> >_>
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> So, symbola?
<Unit193> Yeah, I think it'd be good.
<bluesabre> cool, want to add it to the seed?
<Unit193> Huh, none of the fonts are in core, all are desktop...
<Unit193> Honestly I would have thought noto and symbola would be in core.  Well, symbola *was*..
<bluesabre> Also feel free to move those to core :)
<bluesabre> Fix all the things! :D
<Unit193> I wondered why you put numlockx there after fixing the issue where it was missing. :P
<bluesabre> Also feel free to move that if it doesn't suit the mission of core
<Unit193> 'core' isn't just my baby.  fonts-opensymbol, "This font contains symbols (like fonts as Wingdings(tm)), bullets (needed for bullets in LibreOffice) and non-latin character"  Hmm, think that's fitting too? :3
<bluesabre> I understand, but you have a better idea of what fits there
<Unit193> I think you're right on this, just struck me as odd initially.
<Unit193> (notois in core from elsewhere, so yes moving the fonts over.)
<Unit193> bluesabre: All done!
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks!
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r667 Fix the copy-paste error (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r668 xdg-xubuntu-templates: Fix FileNotFound error (LP: #1694471)... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r669 xdg-xubuntu-templates: Fix UnicodeDecode error (LP: #1668191... (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Reasonably productive night
<bluesabre> nighty all
<flocculant> bluesabre: I don't have bluetooth anything on pc ;) as far as -desktop goes might be better for someone they'd listen to to do it ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: did a quick check - see at least 1 24s timeout for this on ubuntu livesession - will do some more looking when I'm back
<ochosi> bluesabre: noice, lotsa fixes
<tracker1> Hey People, Just wanted to leave a Note here - I read your call to join in Testing (from March 4th) - I'll try to find time to join in the next weeks. I'm also glad to see the beta has been tested at least a few times already.   In Short: thanks for your work and you have been heard ;)
<knome> tracker1, nice to hear, thanks for the interest and hope you'll have time to help us :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, i updated my slideshow branch, check it out when you have time
<slickymasterWork> Thanks knome, I'll check it out later at home
<willem> Can I have some advice again please? I updated 18.04 to the latest daily by starting software-manager from cli to check if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1754986 still exists. Whilst in the update-manager I clicked on one of the links which referred me to the bug that was being repaired by the update; firefox did not start immediately; then it did. In cli I then had a load of messages: http://i.imgur.c
<willem> om/SsP7UGg.png
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1754986 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager: WARNING:root:can not import unity GI Namespace Dbusmenu not available" [Undecided,New]
<willem> Is this an update-manager problem, a firefox problem, or ? 
<willem> http://i.imgur.com/SsP7UGg.png
<flocculant> willem: hi - re the update mangler bug - does it not show up in the panel? It should do - it certainly does here (even if I ignore it). Assuming that it does show up - does it then work from there?
<flocculant> That's where it should work from at least.
<flocculant> If you want to do cli, then better to use apt or apt-get 
<willem> flocculant, hi. Thanks for your quick reply. "does it not show up in the panel"... sorry about being daft, but what "it" do you mean, and which panel? Just to be clear: the updates do get installed, despite the messages.
<flocculant> your desktop panel - you should see an icon there for update mangler
<flocculant> just grabbing a pic
<flocculant> https://i.imgur.com/ERb761E.png
<flocculant> the orange thing is update mangler
<flocculant> the issue you see is likely because it's looking for root stuff which gets started when it runs normally - I think ;)
<willem> ah, thatÅ what you mean. No I haven't noticed that it's there. But I don't really pay attention to that I'm afraid.
<willem> I'll take better note from now on and test what happens then
<flocculant> willem - cheers :)
<flocculant> and many thanks for staying around for longer than a day \o/
<knome> yes, that's useful
<knome> (hello all)
<willem> Well, I'm really trying to dig in this time. 
<flocculant> knome: indeed it is 
<flocculant> willem: it's completely appreciated by I would expect the whole team - certainly by me :D
<willem> My fear is that you guys are getting tired of me :-( 
<willem> I have not yet decided what is more daunting to me: to know where "your" part of Xubuntu starts, where upstream starts, what are XUbuntu-software packages and what are packages from elsewhere, OR how to find out where to enter my bug reports: launchpad, bugzilla, xfce,org, 
<willem> and what have you
<flocculant> I'd not worry about us getting tired of you at all - akxwi-dave will tell you that once he's been around for a shortish while I dragged him into the https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-qa team :p
<flocculant> willem: you might want to join https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers - sometimes I contact people there 
<flocculant> willem: if something in Xubuntu is called xfce-something then lp and upstream 
<flocculant> some things are not upstream - but kind of in house by bluesabre 
<flocculant> if you go to bugzilla - and can't find the thing you want to report - it's likely not upstream xfce
<flocculant> bluesabre ali1234 - ubuntu dbus-daemon[949]: [system] Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms) - so I can see the same issue on Ubuntu, but just apparently the once
<willem> sorry, I've been disconnected... I've experienced two unexplained "log outs" just now... 
<slickymasterWork> willem, I for one certainly second flocculant feelings of appreciation regarding your perseverance in staying with us 
<willem> thanks for saying that. much appreciated!
<flocculant> :)
<willem> So, just to perservere ;-) where do you advice should I report http://i.imgur.c? firefox, update-manager, or?
<flocculant> willem: need the whole imgur url ;)
<willem> I thought you all were so clever that I could provide just half the url... :-) http://i.imgur.com/SsP7UGg.png
<flocculant> willem: I'd leave that for the moment 
<flocculant> eg not report it
<willem> right. I won't. Is there are short way to explain why?
<flocculant> is this from running update-manager in a terminal?
<willem> it's when I started update-manager from terminal, but then, in the update-manager clicking on one the links that directed me to more information about the update of a particular package
<flocculant> if so I 'think' it's complaining that root isn't able to create something - you don't want root to do that anyway
<flocculant> aah right - tied up I suspect
<flocculant> update-manager isn't a cli tool - it's a gui one - run it from panel
<willem> right, I will from now on. Thanks for explaining.
<flocculant> no problem - I'm probably simplifying things there too - I'm not completely sure 
<flocculant> biab - not been home long
<willem> last question for tonight... normally I would you apt... if I do: should I do sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade OR sudo apt dist-upgrade? (people over at OSMC insist one should use dist-upgrade)
<willem> flocculant, thanks for help; bye
<flocculant> still here
<flocculant> apt update and upgrade
<flocculant> full-upgrade if it's not upgrading something
<flocculant> dist-upgrade is for apt-get
<willem> I see. thanks!
<flocculant> np
<willem> I have to dash now, as well. 
<willem> bye
<flocculant> night :)
<ali1234> flocculant: ubuntu-desktop does not use blueman tho afaik
<ali1234> bluez fails to start cos there is no hardware i think
<ali1234> but then it is blueman causing the timeout
<flocculant> yea - that's why I wondered - jibel has been looking for a slow boot issue in live session - so that's useful 
<flocculant> and tbh if we can get them interested enough and we benefit I'm sure Sean will be more than happy :)
<flocculant> also - if they've added this module and it's knackered us - they should be helpful - at least that's how I understand the ' we won't break flavours' thing 
<flocculant> anyway - biab - really must eat
<ali1234> if they dont use blueman at all i don't see why ubuntu-desktop would have added that module
<ali1234> blame debian?
<flocculant> no idea I'm afraid
<flocculant> I didn't even know about the module till sean posted it in the bug
<bluesabre> evening all
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey flocculant!
<bluesabre> late night for you
<flocculant> bluesabre: it's only 10pm here :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: that'd be a late night for me
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> was just thinking bed though lol
<flocculant> didja see ^^ and in #u-dev ?
<bluesabre> flocculant: I did
<bluesabre> Hopefully they just fix it and that's done
<flocculant> yea - might be worth someone other than me saying something to them though
<flocculant> I'm just glad that finally it's clear I've not been whining about nothing for months :D
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> I guess I might have noticed sooner if I hadn't ditched blueman locally ages ago 
<bluesabre> I should ditch the bluetooth card from my laptop so I'm more bothered by it
<flocculant> lol
<flocculant> at least we know what's up now 
<flocculant> anyway - will likely miss willcooke tomorrow - doubt he's out of bed when I leave for work ;)
<bluesabre> So we *should* be able to get it fixed in the next month
<flocculant> yea - got to hope so :)
<flocculant> everytime LTS ... 
<Unit193> Yeah, and since it's getting closer to release there seems to be issues cropping up.
<flocculant> Unit193: hi - and yea 
<Unit193> You know me, always lurking in the shadows.
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> :D
<Unit193> Xorg or something seems to randomly be freaking out, which is new and fun.  And it seems printing isn't working out right now.
<flocculant> fine here afaik
<Unit193> Well, for that computer is new and fun.  I've been having only one good suspend for another, then have to hard reboot.  Also xorg crashes and dumps me back to lightdm if I do somethign wrong (like opening thunar, sometimes that does it.  Restarting xfdesktop, etc.)
<flocculant> I can certainly give suspend a go for a few boots
<Unit193> Nah it's fine, I only see it one 'Omega' and that's been happening for quite some time.
<flocculant> which I'll do the first time now - as bluesabre mentioned the time - I'm now tired :p
<flocculant> night peeps
<Unit193> G'night.
<flocculant> I'll still see if it works for me
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-15
<bluesabre> flocculant, ochosi: a couple questions about defaults... 1) Do we want notifications to fade out? This was the behavior prior to 0.4.0 I think, and 2) Do we want to add the notifyd plugin to the panel? It seems like a nice addition to me and fits in nicely to the left of indicator-messages
<bluesabre> (also welcome feedback from everybody else)
<flocculant> bluesabre: first off from my perspective I'd say no to both - all turned off here :p
<Unit193> I thought they did fade out by default, but yeah added the plugin and didn't see too much of a benefit. :3
<flocculant> from not my perspective 1 - not sure what you mean - when I test it for ochosi I thought it faded out 
<flocculant> 2 - the plugin isn't too obtrusive and I don't see having it there would be an immediate fail
<flocculant> Unit193: ha ha 
<flocculant> I can imagine if you had them on - the plugin allows you to dnd pretty quickly
<Unit193> For the only thing that matters, my irssi notifications don't fire if ~/.dnd exists.
<flocculant> Unit193: suspend screwed up a terminal I had running irssi, was dead, logging out and it was still dead - had to reboot
<flocculant> aah it moves off stage right - doesn't fade
<Unit193> 0_o
<flocculant> apparently I have electron installed ... https://i.imgur.com/sVA1FaM.png
<flocculant> pretty sure I don't - but I do have something built with it (if that's what I read right)
<willem> good moring all
<willem> morning 
<Unit193> Heya, willem.
<willem> flocculant, as to an update-manager icon appearing in my panel: today I fired up my laptop around 9 o'clock. So far -it's now almost 10- there's no icon to be seen.
<willem> (I'm refering to an earlier exchange about update-manager)
<willem> I ran sudo apt update in the terminal, and it tells me that there are 23 upgradable packages. There is still no update-manager in the panel however.
<willem> Should I report this as an issue do you think?
<bluesabre> flocculant, Unit193, yeah, it used to fade by default, but the default changed recently to just disappear
<bluesabre> Unit193: that .dnd thing... that sounds like how it should work?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Irssi/application specific, thus personally have no need for notifyd's version which is what the plugin provides access to.
<bluesabre> Unit193: ah, gotcha
<bluesabre> but similarly, you wouldn't be bothered by its inclusion
<Unit193> Yeah, only insofar if I have to re-install, something to remove, but that's not hard so not a big deal. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: there's a lot of Electron apps now, so very possible you may have used one at some point
<bluesabre> I actually need a file a bug about those, fonts are rendering horribly bad in them in bionic
<Unit193> bluesabre: So, happy with Bionic?  With the LTS status?
<ali1234> https://i.imgur.com/iCOm6os.png missing icons
<bluesabre> ali1234: in humanity?
<ali1234> in ubuntu-mono-light and elementary-xfce
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, I think we're in a pretty good position. Everything is rock solid and we only have a few minor issues here and there
<ali1234> and yeah humanity too
<bluesabre> elementary-xfce looks good over here
<ali1234> i installed with the daily image downloaded about 2 hours ago
<bluesabre> huh
<bluesabre> the orange home folder you have there is not elementary-xfce
<ali1234> corrent, it is ubuntu-mono-light
<ali1234> the icons are missing regardless of what icon set i choose
<bluesabre> will take a look tonight
<ali1234> hmm, wait, it does have an icon in elementary-xfce
<ali1234> it's just that it's an amorphous grey blob so i could not see it :(
<ali1234> also what is this: https://i.imgur.com/iCyTLXr.png
<willem> I think I may be seeing the same thing: http://i.imgur.com/xhsjUAV.png; below the bluetooth icon, the mouse and touch pad entry seems to be missing the icon. 
<ali1234> yeah, cos you've changed icon theme as well
<ali1234> oh hre's something: the gnome icon theme is not missing the icon
<ali1234> i bet gnome renamed the icon and then nobody fixed all the old themes
<willem> I just changed the icon theme to adwaita. Now more icons are missing it seems: http://i.imgur.com/p9hLM9a.png
<ali1234> me too. adwaita seems to have almost no icons at all
<ali1234> although perhaps that is to be expected
<ali1234> i'm not sure why it is even listed and even the preview has a missing icon
<ali1234> ah you need adwaita-icon-theme-full to get the full theme
<willem> Unit193, as to being happy with Bionic: I've been using it as my everyday install for some 5 days now. Not found any reason to reboot 16.04 so far.
<willem> So it's doing well
<willem> :-)
<ali1234> hmm yep, most icon themes do have those icons
<ali1234> faenza, human, breath all have them
<ali1234> i guess ubuntu-mono is just unmaintained now
<Unit193> Oh nice, can't get the dropbox indicator to show up.
<Unit193> willem: Yep, been using it for quite some time myself.
<willem> Unit193, my dropbox icon in 18.04 is working (unlike in 16.04). It does however not show any menu if i click/tap on it. It does show atatus messages when I hover over it.
<ali1234> hmm installing adwaita-icon-theme-full fixes ubuntu-mono-light as well
<ali1234> i dont think i will ever understand how icon themes work :(
<Unit193> willem: I can get either to work in Artful, though it seems only if I use indicator-application, hmm.
<Unit193> willem: I usually force it into tray icon mode, but was looking to see if I could get indicators working.
<ali1234> ah i see
<ali1234> Inherits=Humanity,Adwaita,hicolor <- that's the problem
<Unit193> OK, so yes I can confirm on Bionic too.
<willem> have to leave for now; thanks
<ochosi> bluesabre: i would set it to fade out by default. not sure if you also want to enable slide out. i would also add the plugin for easy access to DND
<ochosi> ali1234: if you find missing icons in elementary-xfce let me know! and yeah, humanity is in terrible shape
<ochosi> just don't use it
<ali1234> i'm not trying to use humanity but ubuntu-mono-light
<ali1234> but it is also messed up for some reason
<ali1234> but installing adwaita-icon-theme-full fixes it for some reason
<ali1234> i'm now writing a tool to tell me why
<ali1234> can you tell me the name of those icons?
<ali1234> okay the icon in question is preferences-desktop-peripherals
<ali1234> this icon only exists inside the 'gnome' icon theme
<ali1234> this code snippet find the icon even though the gnome theme is selected and the selected theme does not inherit from it http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/f9HmqWSkC6/ 
<ali1234> it works on both 16.04 and 18.04 so i don't understand why it isn't drawing the icon on 18.04
<ali1234> araraghgrhaghrgha
<ali1234> this is the worst thing ever
<ali1234> the icon exists
<ali1234> somebody changed it to a copy of the missing icon icon
<ali1234> nope, that's not right either
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-terminal 0.8.7.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-terminal-0-8-7-2-released-tp50792.html (by Igor Zakharov)
<willem> hi guys. I think I am seeing some weird behaviour when the laptop battery is almost empty. Please see the picture here http://i.imgur.com/x2vCDj3.png 
<willem> This screen appeared all of a sudden, and the white squares moves when I move the mouse/touchpad
<willem> It happened twice
<willem> Not sure how to investigate this. Any suggestions?
<GridCube> willem: I have the suspicion that's a hardware issue
<willem> It think it happens when the battery is very low, and the laptop wants to shut down, and ask me to save my work before the complete shutdown. When I press the on/off button, the Xubuntu-windoing down windows shows up and the laptop turns off
<willem> This has not happened before. Is there any log I can have a look at to find out more? Or should I ask that somewhere else?
<willem> I found a log message which may be related and posted on launchpad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1550779
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1550779 in linux (Ubuntu) "[i915]] *ERROR* CPU pipe A FIFO underrun - Xorg glitches" [Medium,Incomplete]
<flocculant> willem: what do you have in update tab of software and updates - just screen shot it for me 
<flocculant> bluesabre: it was early - yea I have electron app - iirc etcher is electron - not sure why notify just calls things electron?
<willem> flocculant, I hope you mean this: http://i.imgur.com/wksmBeI.png
<willem> The option I meant is in this tab: http://i.imgur.com/EdLwRUO.png
<flocculant> yea - last one - don't turn that on 
<flocculant> yea - last one - don't turn that on 
<flocculant> I'll repeat that :p
<willem> Thank you
<willem> thank you
<willem> I wont
<willem> I really won't
<willem> :-)
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> ok - so first screenie - set them to same as mine and see what happens tomorrow
<flocculant> tbh I'm not overly concerned about update-mangler - that's a Canonical thing - they get paid to sort their stuff out :D
<willem> flocculant, Is there a way for me to know what yours looks like? :-)
<flocculant> oops - wonder where I posted that then 
<flocculant> https://i.imgur.com/9K2gnwG.png
<flocculant> or I thought I was going to - then didn't 
<willem> well, my update tab looks the same;now, except for the security updates; there I have Download immediately and install... Is that alright?
<willem> Remember though: I have not seen an update icon in system tray yet
<flocculant> yep - leave the security one how you have it
<flocculant> and yes - trying to trigger it for you by telling it to display immediately
<flocculant> how the tool works is that 2 times per day shortly after and admin logs in (you) it checks and should display
<willem> well, I have not seen that display yet.
<willem> still: food calls
<willem> I was looking at https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes; I noticed that the link in "xubuntu-desktop (changelog)" doesn't work.
<willem> same: xubuntu-wallpapers (changelog)
<flocculant> willem: thanks :)
<krytarik> willem: Regarding update-manager not showing up even though you get packages to upgrade using APT directly, there is this too which might play a role here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhasedUpdates
<dc_coder_84> I am testing Xubuntu 18.04 64 Bit on real hardware and have found some weird things. When I execute
<dc_coder_84> xfce4-terminal --hold --command "echo hello"
<dc_coder_84> I everytime get a popup with this message: "Child process exited normal with status zero". Should I open a bug report for it?
<willem> krytarik, thanks. That may well be the reason. I'll have a better look over there shortly.
<ali1234> ochosi: getting deeper into this missing icon thing. Gtk+3 has added hardcoded look ups against Adwaita and gnome icon themes in addition to hicolor and whatever your theme inherits
<ali1234> Gtk+2 never did this, so i don't understand how garcon could ever find the missing icons at all, since they'ev only ever existing in the gnome theme on my system
<ali1234> hmm https://github.com/GNOME/gtk/commit/a093cd2a22173369424878eb6d8c38124e7aa1f9
<ali1234> got it! setting that setting to "gnome" fixes everything
<ali1234> just need to figure out why that is not required on 16.04 now
<ali1234> flocculant: here's all the bugs i found in the beta so far: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/JfKCv3P6bw/
<bluesabre> flocculant: etcher works well :)
<ali1234> etcher is electron... didn't someone say they are busted on 18.04?
<bluesabre> ali1234: they work, but fonts seem to be poorly rendered in 18.04
<bluesabre> especially noticeable in atom and visual studio code
<ali1234> bluesabre: do you have any suggestions where i could look for this fallback icon theme setting?
<ali1234> like where do the default settings live?
<bluesabre> ali1234: I don't know... but I gtk lets you set whether to use fallback icons in case of a failed load
<ali1234> it does but the problem is i didnt tell it to but under 16.04 it did anyway
<ali1234> but now under 18.04 it does not
<ali1234> as far as i can tell no settings changed
<ali1234> and neither did the source code
<ali1234> nor any of the icon themes
<bluesabre> :D
<ali1234> so... i have no idea
<bluesabre> no idea
<ali1234> what do you think about just setting the setting in the xfconf defaults?
<ali1234> it fixes the problem and it's just one key that doesn't appear to affect anything else
<bluesabre> What's the setting?
<ali1234> xsettings\Net\FallbackIconTheme = "gnome"
<bluesabre> Seems like a reasonable inclusion
<ali1234> there's a bug report... in the pastebin i linked above... number 4
<ali1234> i don't like fixing things without understand why they fix it :(
<bluesabre> thanks ali1234 
<ali1234> i will keep searching for the answer and update the bug
<bluesabre> Cool
<bluesabre> Let me know if you find anything, otherwise I'll just add it to our defaults
<ali1234> hmm... i reproduced it on 16.04 and now i don't understand why
<ali1234> i found a bunch of other keys that specify an icon theme but the xsettings one really seems to be the only one that does anything
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-16
<donofrio__> how do I rollback packages (or at least be able to track down what is causing terminal's to "crash" - http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/DYDHHSHTW9/
<donofrio__> that was from tail -n25 /var/log/apt/history.log | pastebinit
<donofrio__> something is killing my processes.....I'll have pianobar up on a terminal then try to type something and it crashes and apport comes up saying something crashed
<flocculant> ali1234: ta - will look later
<flocculant> knome: re wallpaper things - if I'd downloaded one of them to see what it looked like - would that file be the 'real' resolution? eg if it downloaded as 1024x640 is that what someone sent in?
<flocculant> cos if that's the case - and we want 2560x1600 - how do we know which of the images to vote on are even the right size and actually to spec?
<flocculant> to sum it up - looks fine on the webpage - looks less fine on the desktop ;
<flocculant> )
<knome> flocculant, vote as if you had a large enough version of the image
<knome> if one with insufficient resolution looks like it's winning, we'll ask the submitter for a bigger version
<knome> and as implied: what you get is what they sent, it's not resized
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<willem> flocculant, we changed the settings in my update-manager, remember? Just now a list of updates was shown with the quetion would I like to install them.
<willem> So, that's working as it should, then.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-17
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging I have no idea what I'm doing
<Unit193> bluesabre: OK, so how can I assist?
<bluesabre> Is there a primer for git-dpm somewhere?
<bluesabre> I cloned the menulibre git packaging repo
<bluesabre> and then ran "git-dpm import-new-upstream --ptc --rebase-patched ../../../Code/release/menulibre/dist/menulibre_2.2.0.orig.tar.gz"
<bluesabre> and nothing happened
<bluesabre> and I'm confused
<Unit193> Well it linked to https://wiki.debian.org/PackagingWithGit/GitDpm
<Unit193> I've never used dpm specifically, just gbp or gbp/pq.
<bluesabre> Somehow missed that
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> gbp import-dsc/import-orig look handy
<flocculant> bluesabre - what is our plan if we get no movement on the bluetooth thing before release?
<flocculant> ochosi: bug 1756187
<ubottu> bug 1756187 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Some icon themes have missing icons due to missing fallback setting." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756187
<flocculant> ali1234 sees that issue - I can't confirm it, but I've got the team and shimmer ppa - I assume something in them fixes the issue?
<flocculant> ali1234: confirmed the ristretto and icon cache bug 
<flocculant> added all 3 to bluesabre's omg list
<ali1234> you wont see missing icons unless you are using a different icon theme
<ali1234> you also wont see it if you have adwaita-icon-theme-full installed as that provides them
<flocculant> ali1234: re the installer - using Install option doesn't show the welcome page as you said - not sure if that's expected - nor how long it's not been there - maybe report it against ubiquity
<ali1234> unless you use an icon theme that doesn't inherit adwaita
<flocculant> ali1234: don't have adwaita-icon-theme-full
<flocculant> and I'd obviously set icons to what you said in the bug
<flocculant> however - I do appear to have another icon missing from my panel now
<ali1234> try running this script http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/fqHNcfJ39S/
<ali1234> it will tell you what is providing the icon
<flocculant> hang on
<ali1234> but it uses gtk3 so it has the gnome theme hard coded
<ali1234> also icons can sometimes be cached in weird ways
<flocculant> ok - confirmed that bug too now
<bluesabre> flocculant: not sure quite yet... we'll just have to get some movement
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> we'll try blacklisting the plugin, fixing the bug ourselves, or swapping to gnome-bluetooth somehow
<flocculant> bluesabre: ha ha - might be easier for you to get movement than me - being a bit of a whippersnapper :D
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: your kids can carry you
<bluesabre> put them to work :D
<flocculant> lol
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r670 * etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xsett... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r671 UNRELEASED (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> flocculant: added the notification to the panel in -settings, should show on next upload/iso
<bluesabre> * notification plugin
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack
<bluesabre> uploaded, so that will land later today
<bluesabre> also includes several fixes for willem and ali1234 :)
<flocculant> :)
<willem> willem says thanks
<willem> :-)
<willem> I take it's the menulibre issue (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1754888)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1754888 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Menulibre: invalid desktop files detected!" [Undecided,New]
<willem> I'll test when it's installed
<bluesabre> willem: yeah, this upload resolves most of those, and the menulibre upload sometime soon will take care of vim
<bluesabre> (pending debian sponsor, upload, and sync)
<willem> Doesn't matter if it takes some time: I should be practising piano, not playing around with my computer, really.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r672 * etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/panel/default.xml:... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r673 Release 18.04.4 (by Sean Davis)
<flocculant> bluesabre: parole and play button not working issue? had any thoughts on that?
<flocculant> apart from the obvious one ;)
<willem> Just a quick question if I may: In a VM I'm testing installing bionic over an existing install. When I do, I get the question if I want to upgrade Bionic Beaver to Xubuntu 18.04 LTS.
<willem> Is that expected?
<flocculant> it is indeed
<bluesabre> flocculant: first thought... maybe parole is trying to protect us from an overabundance of media consumption
<bluesabre> second thought... just need to sit down and fix that bug :)
<flocculant> that's not my obvious one :D
<willem> flocculant, thanks, will proceed
<flocculant> bluesabre: need anything from me? or do you see it too?
<flocculant> willem: yw 
<bluesabre> flocculant: want to add it to the bug bp?
<flocculant> oh
<flocculant> I thought I had lol
<flocculant> yep - will do 
<bluesabre> thx
<bluesabre> I'll let you know if I need more details
<bluesabre> cleaning up the apartment a bit, and then might be out for a few hours
<flocculant> done 
<flocculant> oh good boy :D
 * flocculant did that earlier 
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<flocculant> np - have fun ;)
<willem> off to elsewhere for the rest of the day 
<willem> just noticed I've got 2 network icons in the top panel. http://i.imgur.com/HWSkMOx.png
<willem> I haven't seen that before. Can it be related to the latest update, do you think?
<willem> Both icons are behaving normally
<willem> if you click on them, I mean
<ali1234> looks like one indicator and one systray
<ochosi> or sn-plugin and indicator-plugin are misconfigured maybe?
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2018-March/017946.html
<ali1234> flocculant: more bugs: bug 1756608
<ubottu> bug 1756608 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Applications Menu plugin clips panel icon." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756608
<ali1234> bug 1756612
<ubottu> bug 1756612 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Launch and Directory Menu items icons are too small" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756612
<ali1234> bug 1756614
<ubottu> bug 1756614 in xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin (Ubuntu) "Status Notifier draws some icons at the wrong size" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756614
<ali1234> also i notice that we now have three different indicator/notifier areas and indicators seem to be able to show up in any of them at random
<ochosi> ali1234: hmm, that last part is a little troubling. i thought in indicator-plugin you can blacklist indicator-application so "normal" app indicators would never show up there..?
<ochosi> at least indicator-plugin and sn-plugin shouldn't conflict (in theory..?)
<ochosi> the trayicon part is a bit problematic, not even sure if we can prevent that (other than dropping it by default)
<ali1234> that probably explains why half of indicators dont work with it
<ali1234> i would like to disable sn-plugin and use indicator-application to display appindicators, because it renders them properly and sn-plugin doesn't
<ochosi> sn-plugin *only* handles app indicators
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it had one job...
<ochosi> and doesn't handle anything else, for the rest that would have to be xfce4-indicator-plugin
<ali1234> right, i want to use that
<ochosi> and the whole icon problem:
<ochosi> indicators in ubuntu-land don't support symbolic icons
<ochosi> they never cared enough
<ochosi> which would solve the monochrome issues you're seeing nicely
<ali1234> it works correctly in xfce4-indicator-plugin
<ochosi> i'd say "correctly"
<ali1234> and it also works correctly when sn-plugin is disabled and the indicator gets drawn in the systray instead
<ali1234> correctly as in it doesn't look awful :(
<ochosi> cause currently it's a very heuristic approach that icon themes have to take
<ochosi> certain icons have colorful and monochrome variants
<ochosi> and depending on the size of the icon you get either monochrome or colorful
<ali1234> i assume that is why both indicator-plugin and sn-plugin have that "symbolic" checkbox
<ali1234> but that doesn't actually do anything at all in either
<ochosi> and i think ubuntu's indicators were at some point fixed to 22px (if they aren't still) for that reason
<ali1234> yeah... ignore the size stuff
<ali1234> i was wrong about that
<ochosi> i think with the symbolic checkbox (which is only in sn-plugin, right?) it tries to just append a "-symbolic" at the end of the icon name
<ali1234> no, it is in both
<ochosi> and if the icon exists in the theme, it *will* be drawn symbolically
<ali1234> okay but the problem is it always uses the light version
<ochosi> i think i may not have the latest version
<ochosi> then the context for the icon is wrong and it gets the panel's bg color incorrectly
<ochosi> context == gtkstylecontext
<ochosi> ninetls: ^ 
<ali1234> i dont know what that means...
<ochosi> no worries
<ochosi> but it could be the source of the problem
<ali1234> also why does notification area have this option "draw frame"?
<ali1234> and why is it switched on by default?
<ochosi> is it?
<ochosi> it should be disabled
<ochosi> it's a legacy option
<ochosi> has always been there
<ali1234> i'l check again next time i reinstall and bug report it
<ali1234> ochosi: also by default sn-plugin is not on the panel, which means all appindicators end up in the tray, which has the frame, is that intentional?
<ali1234> i didn't even know it was possible for appindicators to go in the systray... and while debugging things i've somehow broken it and they won't go in there any more if i remove sn-plugin
<ali1234> oh wait a minute
<ali1234> i'm not using the default panel layout...
<ali1234> ignore all that
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> no worries
<ali1234> okay made new account...
<ali1234> aaaaah
<ali1234> the frame is off by default
<ochosi> ok, would have been quite a surprise to me had it been otherwise
<ochosi> but i presume the icon color issue remains
<ochosi> guess i'll have to debug that soonish
<ochosi> btw, the only icon theme relevant for our testing will be elementary-xfce
<ochosi> humanity and i guess ubuntu-mono are in terrible shape
<ali1234> well, i don't test things i don't use
<ali1234> hmm... the default session has two clocks now
<ali1234> but that might be something i installed
<ochosi> sounds a bit like datetime indicator?
<ochosi> or datetime plugin and clock plugin in the panel
<ochosi> anyway, i'll try to take a look at a clean bionic session soonish
<ochosi> (i.e. before UIF ;))
<ali1234> yes, it is
<ali1234> it's cos i installed all the indiactors
<ali1234> i have two batteries as well
<ochosi> mhm
<ali1234> also blueman is in indicator-plugin now
<ali1234> in my other session it's in sn-plugin and wont go into indicator-
<ali1234> and prior to that it was in the systray
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-18
<bluesabre> ali1234: yeah, if you have indicator-application, the indicator plugin is going to randomly steal or duplicate some app indicators
<ali1234> cpufreq isn't showing up anywhere now
<bluesabre> shows up in status notifier for me
<ali1234> it did in my old session but not in my new one
<ali1234> let me try restarting...
<ali1234> doesn't work in the old session either now
<ali1234> oh wait there it is
<ali1234> it might be because the new user isn't in the right groups
<Unit193> bluesabre: But that doesn't explain why dropbox shows up fine in indi but not sn-plug!
<ali1234> it probably isn't an appindicator
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think dropbox used one of the older libind* libraries
<ali1234> like indicator-messages
<Unit193> bluesabre: Considering no other libs were changed?  I'd presume not.
<bluesabre> Unit193: I can't explain it either way :D
<ali1234> does dropbox show a text label next to the icon?
<Unit193> It is indeed an appindicator.  And no, only hover.
<ali1234> i just copied over one of my custom appindicators and it doesnt show up at all
<ali1234> hmm i added another sn-plugin and it shows up
<ali1234> but with the wrong icon and no text label
<ali1234> huh... that wrong icon is probably a bug in my code
<Unit193> bluesabre: You ever figure menulibre stuff out?
<Unit193> ali1234: I had the same thing, actually.  https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debian-edu/pkg-team/veracrypt.git/commit/?id=c5c017eb4aea859694c765a3255222c6920b64f1
<ali1234> weird, my bug is the opposite
<ali1234> the icon name is correct in the _new call but sn-plugin ignores that and always displays the attention_icon instead, which indicator-application ignores
<ali1234> i had a completely wrong icon set in that, but i've never seen it before
<bluesabre> Unit193: I did, just waiting for one of the debian-python sponsors to upload
<Unit193> bluesabre: If you wanted to screw around with db, just add 'XFCE' in with Budgie in about http://paste.openstack.org/show/701591/
<Unit193> Ah nice.
<ali1234> Unit193: this may be the dropbox problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin/+bug/1756627
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756627 in xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin (Ubuntu) "status notifier can't see appindicators which are started after it" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> Huh, I start things after all the time.  I guess I could try that.
<ali1234> for me it does not work
<ali1234> like, at all
<ali1234> i'll retest this on a fresh install tomorrow
<ali1234> i've tested with the example code, indicator-cpufreq, and classicmenu-indicator
<ali1234> none of them appear until theplugin is restarted
<ali1234> note that two of those start on startup - in that case they will show up
<ali1234> but immediately after installing them, they won't
<ali1234> not even if you run them manually
<Unit193> Huh, those aren't xfce4-indicator-plugin ones?  Weird.
<ali1234> no, they are all appindicators
<ali1234> but indicator-plugin might steal them if you have the other appindicator stuff installed
<ali1234> but not in this case, they don't show up there either
<ali1234> i have to wonder why we are replacing the perfectly working indicator-plugin with sn-plugin which appears to be completely broken along with not supporting the full feature set
<Unit193> DB is the only thing I've had issues with, otherwise it's less finicky for me than -application.  Killing sn-plug (it autorespawns) didn't bring DB up.
<ali1234> the wrong light/dark variant thing is a bug in indicator-cpufreq
<ali1234> it sets a bogus icon theme path, which causes the fallback icons to be used instead of the correct ones
<ali1234> not convinced that behaviour is correct either tbh
<donofrio> so can I use the devel repo's for normal ubuntu 18.04?
<flocculant> ochosi ali1234 - frame is off by default
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, ali was using a non-default session/panel config
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - didn't manage to read it well at stupid o'clock then :p
<flocculant> anyway - added bugs to bp
<ali1234> flocculant: i can't report the bugs against ubiquity because i dont have ubiquity installed
<tracker8> hello
<tracker8> all idots dead
<tracker8> bye 
<willem> morning all
<willem> In my panel there are two network icons at times. I'd like to investigate. Any pointers where to start?
<ali1234> check which plugins own each icon
<ali1234> since there is currently three plugins that can put icons in the panel
<ali1234> and for some reason icons can end up in any of them depending on what you have installed
<ali1234> those three plugins are called "notification area", "indicator plugin" and "status notifier plugin"
<willem> ali1234, thanks! I'll try and get going with this. I'm a newby, so it'll take some effort. 
<ali1234> flocculant: ubiquity bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1756650
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756650 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu installer slideshow has no welcome page." [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1756651
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756651 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: "remove media" message is not dislayed after installation" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> also put them on the iso tracker
<flocculant> ali1234: re the remove media bug - is that hardware or vm?
<flocculant> and the welcome page issue - not sure what you're expecting to see - I slight difference when choosing between Try or Install 
<ali1234> flocculant: hardware
<ali1234> and with the welcome page i expect to see the name and version of the software i am installing at a bare minimum
<ali1234> and a message saying "select language"
<willem> ali1234, flocculant I thought I'd try and reproduce the "no welcome" issue with the daily in a VM. 
<flocculant> ali1234: just checking here - but you mean the ubiquity slideshow and not our one once installation's started?
<willem> In this case I did not get the graphical install screen, but the "old" version with a simple "dos" screen
<ali1234> flocculant: i mean this page: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/361087303/IMG_20180318_084240.jpg
<ali1234> it's literally the first thing you see when you boot directly to the installer
<flocculant> ali1234: ack
<ali1234> or the first thing you see if you click the "install" icon on the live desktop
<ali1234> that big empty space with nothing in it
<ali1234> it should say something
<flocculant> ali1234: just let me boot live
<ali1234> like "you are about to install xubuntu 18.04. select the language for installer and click continue. or click here for the release notes"
<flocculant> it definitely says release note - assuming network capability - just booting vm with no network
<ali1234> what does?
<ali1234> you mean live desktop mode?
<willem> ali1234, I restarted the VM and now I'm in the graphical installer. It's telling me that I'm about to try or install Xubuntu.
<flocculant> from the try/install dialogue - try gets desktop, install from there gets a language selector with quit/back/continue - no release note link > no network on vm
<flocculant> with network same as that plus release note
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> that's not enough
<ali1234> it's not nearly enough
<flocculant> but nothing about what you're installing - and it's the same for a long time
<ali1234> i haven't installed ubuntu since 16.04
<flocculant> 16.04.4 doesn't show it
<flocculant> not got 16.04.0 atm - but will grab it shortly and see what that does
<ali1234> actually i might not have installed it since 14.04. i think i upgraded
<flocculant> the try/install dialogue tells you you're installing Xubuntu
<ali1234> i dont see that
<ali1234> i am using a UEFI laptop
<ali1234> it displays a grub menu with tiny writing
<flocculant> aah
<ali1234> so the first thing you actually see is that empty dialog
<flocculant> you don't see this even on uefi? https://i.imgur.com/eiAPgzm.png
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> hang on i'll do a screenshot of what you see instead
<flocculant> ali1234: I know what the uefi grub screen looks like - I hit that accidentally now and again
<flocculant> brb - booting usb
<ali1234> okay
<ali1234> well, the try/install screen is exactly what i mean
<ali1234> it has that short piece of text at the bottom that explains what the installer is
<flocculant> uefi didn't want to boot 
<flocculant> did you get screenshot?
<ali1234> https://photos.app.goo.gl/M5oEm4n5fcMpy5vX2
<ali1234> if you select the second option on that menu, the other screenshot is the very first interactive dialog you will see
<ali1234> the first one drops you directly at the live desktop
<flocculant> ok - so from install from grub you see the lp image you gave - did the laptop have network at that point?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> wireless config is later in the installer
<flocculant> ok - so that's why the release note bit is missing from that screen
<ali1234> okay
<ali1234> it should still say what version of ubuntu it is going to install
<flocculant> but as for the dearth of information - it's been as sparse as that for a fair while
<flocculant> just grabbing the 16.04.0 to see what that's like
<ali1234> the same afaict
<flocculant> that will be the same for any flavour
<flocculant> you do get at least the flavour name on non-uefi on the try/install dialogue
<ali1234> yes
<flocculant> I don't disagree with you here btw ;)
<ali1234> here's a really old installer https://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_new_1/ubuntu-install-begin-install.jpg
<flocculant> ack - yea not looked like that for a long time
<ali1234> here's 16.04 http://pinet.org.uk/assets/images/image3.jpeg
<flocculant> 16.04 for non-uefi gets the try/install dialogue - install goes straight to the preparing page, installl from desktop and I see the welcome page - dearth type one
<flocculant> trying to do a uefi vm and I get an issue
<flocculant> for this we're in the lap of Canonical - pretty sure that this would be the same for anyone
<ali1234> sure
<flocculant> not sure whether it'll get looked at this side of release either
<flocculant> so re the remove media issue - I did a hardware test at beta and I saw it, later today I'll have another go and see what happens
<flocculant> I know on vm's it can be an issue
<flocculant> back a bit later 
<flocculant> bluesabre: am I going nuttier? I swear I read something by you about x-pulse plugin allowing greater than 100% volume?
<bluesabre> flocculant: only when using the slider in the menu
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - was thrown there :) mouse scolls down from +100% but won't go past it 
<ochosi> bluesabre, flocculant actually i've been pondering on how to reflect that in notifyd...
<ochosi> currently it just goes to 100
<bluesabre> ochosi: there's a patch available for pa-plug to allow the 100+% with keyboard keys
<bluesabre> but I think I want to tweak it further so holding it down goes only to 100%, then you have to let go and do it again to go beyond
<flocculant> ochosi: right - that'd be nice - not sure how it would work though 
<flocculant> bluesabre: and while that patch would be good - the tweak would be useful, having had a system in the past where it just went on and on 
<willem> Still testing 18.04: Is this something I should report somewhere? http://i.imgur.com/p44nbl3.png
<willem> Update-manager and "software" can't seem to agree whether or not there are any updates.
<flocculant> probably related to the fact that software never sees everything in the repository - tbh given things I've reported against gnome software have been ignored I'd not waste my time
<flocculant> I wish we didn't even seed the thing
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: do you plan updating panel for 16.04? i suppose not because 18.04 is so close and there isn't an awful long time for 16.04 EOL, but... you might want to tell the person on -devel mailing list
<flocculant> 13 months is more than a third of the time it's supported for ;)
<knome> sure
<knome> i don't think a redraw bug is critical though
<knome> it can be annoying but...
<flocculant> no - wasn't saying that - just that I don't totally agree with 'awful mong time' :p
<flocculant> sigh
<knome> haha
<knome> a year passes like nothing nowadays :/
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> yea - I find that for sure
<flocculant> right - bbl
<knome> not important enough to get all of you pinged, but team: i just updated the voting GUI with an additional link to the original sized image so you can easily preview and download that for evaluation purposes
<knome> (other than that, continue voting)
<willem> flocculant, thanks. I'll leave it as it is then.
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i was more wondering how to catch exactly those cases in notifyd and also how to visualize it
<ochosi> without breaking all themes
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.12.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-12-3-released-tp50837.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<knome> oh yes, that sean davis-6 guy
<bluesabre> strange guy
<bluesabre> works too much
<knome> all bugs aren't fixed yet
<knome> so clearly too little :P
<bluesabre> :D
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.13.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-13-2-released-tp50839.html (by Sean Davis-6)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-11
<brainwash> bluesabre: this leftover is something which I notice every time when booting the live iso
<brainwash> bluesabre: bug 1795216
<ubottu> bug 1795216 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Hide empty panel in Xubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1795216
<brainwash> I don't know if I have pinged Unit193 about this (other than subscribing him to the report)
<brainwash> ochosi: why this? https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/terminal/terminalrc?id=7ef9ec768a3d4750c0d0b059ec116a39b790d7aa
<brainwash> I am about to open a report to change it back to 10
<brainwash> 9 makes the font look rather small, especially when you compare it to the overall desktop (apps, menus, etc.)
<brainwash> this is another thing which I notice every single time, but did not bother to mention or report yet
<brainwash> bug 1819466
<ubottu> bug 1819466 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Increase Terminal font size" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1819466
<Unit193> SwissBot: rss show xfce4-announce 3
<SwissBot> lemme fetch it...
<SwissBot> using old data
<SwissBot> Channel : Nabble - Xfce - Announce
<SwissBot> 2019/02/28 10:00 :: ANNOUNCE: gigolo 0.4.91 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-gigolo-0-4-91-released-tp52681.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
<SwissBot> 2019/02/26 17:34 :: ANNOUNCE: xfmpc 0.2.90 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfmpc-0-2-90-released-tp52676.html (by Andre Miranda)
<SwissBot> 2019/02/24 10:51 :: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-calculator-plugin 0.7.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-calculator-plugin-0-7-0-released-tp52658.html (by Andre Miranda)
<Unit193> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2019-March/036317.html - https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2019-March/036318.html
<ochosi> brainwash: afaict the default font size is also 9
<ochosi> oh, sry, it's 10 https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xsettings.xml?id=7ef9ec768a3d4750c0d0b059ec116a39b790d7aa#n19
<Unit193> If it won't anger QA, I can push the new screenshooter.
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> screenshooter ftw
<brainwash> ochosi: that's a +1 for terminal font size increase too then?
<ochosi> i personally have the system font at 9 too, so...
<ochosi> let's say it's a +1 for consistenc
<ochosi> y
<ochosi> not necessarily a +1 for size 9 ;)
<brainwash> ohh
<ochosi> i personally feel this type of decision should be taken by a teamvote with a quorum, not a single person
<ochosi> unfortunately we haven't had team meetings in a whil
<ochosi> e
<ochosi> (i hope i'm not the one to blame regarding the lack of scheduling one)
<brainwash> the teamvote would be needed for a global change
<brainwash> this is for consistency mainly
<ochosi> yeah, but i would put up the size 9 for a vote too
<ochosi> so three options
<ochosi> 1) size 10 everywhere
<ochosi> 2) size 9 everywhere
<ochosi> 3) leave as is
<brainwash> 3 is a strange one :D
<brainwash> I haven't tested 2) yet
<ochosi> well 3 is for the conservatives and for the "don't care" electorate ;)
<Unit193> I mean, I'm  the torch holder for cranky and I'd say 1 or 2 as well.
<brainwash> Unit193: any comment on the ubiquity panel bug?
<brainwash> it's a change mainly for aesthetics 
<brainwash> unless an empty top panel adds extra beauty
<Unit193> Not really, ochosi is the aesthetics guy.
<ochosi> :>
<ochosi> if we don't do anything with that panel i'd let it go i guess
<ochosi> sucks a little that without indicator sound you cannot easily connect to wifi anymore in the ubiquity-only sessio
<ochosi> n
<ochosi> then again, i highly doubt the value of that session anyway...
<Unit193> -application
<brainwash> it allows the user to connect to wifi and install updates during the installation... or?
<brainwash> maybe ubiquity window offers that too, dunno
<brainwash> no one complained about it being gone though
<Unit193> bluesabre: Right, so xfdesktop4, think we can slip it in?
<Unit193> ochosi: [ubuntu/disco] xfce4-screenshooter 1.9.4-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)
<ochosi> \o/
<ochosi> xfdesktop would be nice too
<brainwash> why is xfwm4 4.13 still missing?
<Unit193> It's not missing?
<brainwash> it's only in debian experimental
<brainwash> but what is holding it back?
<ochosi> there are some open issues in xfwm4 that are holding xfce 4.14. as a whole back
<ochosi> so if it isn't alpha-ready according to the maintainer, i wouldn't wanna ship it
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-12
<bluesabre> Unit193, yeah, xfdesktop sounds good to me
<Unit193>    * New upstream development release.
<Unit193>      - Drop patch applied upstream
<Unit193> Seems pretty minimal, there's other changes I'd like to do but those will have to be done in Debian.
<Unit193> knome: I think we can disable the 'tracker' embed, they usually show up for a minute or two, never say anything, then quit.  I don't think it is useful.
<knome> Unit193, yeah, i guess so if the team doesn't find it useful
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, not going to push xfce4-volumed anywere since if the upstream 'xfce4-volumed' gets revived with the port someone was planning, the versioning will be all screwed up. :3
<Spass> small suggestion regarding the empty panel in ubiquity, what about adding a text there with the release name? so "Xubuntu 19.04 Disco Dingo" text aligned to the left side. And, if possible, a clock aligned to the right.
<Spass> if it's not possible or is problematic, then hiding it completely is a good choice in my opinion
<Spass> btw, I'm installing disco now, time to start testing ;) and I see that there's something wrong with the installer (translation issue)
<Spass> on first screen I choose my language (Polish), click next to install, then on second screen the keyboard layouts are not displayed in Polish (not sure what's the language used)
<Spass> back to my Ubiquity panel suggestion, for example something like this would look nice IMHO - https://i.ibb.co/WxZpV9g/top-panel-ubiquity.png
<ochosi> Spass: your suggestion looks nice, however afaik the ubiquity panel is not that easily customizable
<ochosi> it may be easier to write a standalone panel for that session (after all, a panel is only another toplevel window...)
<Spass> that's a shame, well in that case hiding it is probably a good solution for now
<ochosi> in theory we could also use xfce panel in the ubiquity only session
<ochosi> mostly a question of "do we want to spend RAM on that" in the installer session
<ochosi> iirc we also have xfdesktop drawing the background, which is also overkill...
<Unit193> feh, I thought.
<ochosi> i thought we even had an almost full right-click desktop menu in the ubiquity session at some point
<ochosi> (i may be mistaken)
<Unit193> At one point I believe we did, you could force it to load a full desktop. :D
<ochosi> which lead the whole ubiquity-only session ad absurdum
<Spass> ok, I see some bugs in disco that were present in cosmic also, will report them in the near future
<Spass> but probably #xfce-dev and Bugzilla will be a better place for that
<Unit193> ochosi: Speaking of, have you tried the xfconf gsettings backend? :3
<ochosi> nope, not at all yet
<ochosi> currently trying to get colord frontend support over the finishing line
<Unit193> Dang, OK.
<ochosi> Unit193: have you tested it already?
<Unit193> Not an extended amount, not yet.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-13
<Unit193> Right, so tried the nice importer script, but xfconf balks at gsettings commands giving these errors https://paste.unit193.net/?66346b3acc074b94#KmdZpooBcCh5Wz2gBreUwgJ0fADUSfBtw4kFfH2eHO0=
<bluesabre> Unit193, suppose we can file a bug report to xfconf and see if we can improve it there
<bluesabre> ochosi, we use feh these days in ubiquity since it's basically fail-proof
<Unit193> So yeah, config migration script is a bust. :/
<bluesabre> :(
<Unit193> cyphermox: I don't suppose you're still the ubiquity guy?
<cyphermox> Unit193: I can still do ubiquity stuff, what's up?
<knome> bluesabre, i have a wallpaper draft that i can likely make "final" today, are you around at some time before UI freeze to do the upload?
<knome> bluesabre, bbabl, you have a PM
<Unit193> cyphermox: Was just wondering about https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/364282 before time runs out.
<cyphermox> Unit193: thanks for reminding me
<cyphermox> nice!
<cyphermox> xnox will be happy
<Unit193> Thanks!
<knome> Unit193, hullooo!
<Unit193> Howdy, knome.
<knome> (:
<Spass> hi, I strongly suggest including "fonts-noto-color-emoji" by default, IMHO a modern distro should have that included, even if many won't use it, it's nice to be able to see what others send (monochrome icons are really small and mostly unreadable)
<knome> Spass, we had a discussion about this and iirc, most of the team thought color emojis were meh ;)
<Spass> before - https://ibb.co/St0FhLt and after - https://ibb.co/2czvb2r
<Spass> oh ok, thanks knome, too bad
<cyphermox> since I'm here, might as well ask
<cyphermox> or not, it's not really relevant
<knome> cyphermox, we don't care, go ahead :P
<cyphermox> well, it's a policy question really
<cyphermox> do you care much if other flavours can also upload xfce* packages and the like
<knome> my answer isn't an official statement, but i guess it would depend which flavors and if we they communicated about it with us
<cyphermox> or say, if I shuffle the packagesets "a lot" and in the process remove some upload rights you might "care" about -- the packages would remain in universe and everything all the same, just that one might need to be explicitly MOTU to upload them
<cyphermox> knome: I'm talking about status quo here: currently flavours that include xfce as a DM do get to upload it if they have uploaders for their packageset
<knome> are there others than studio?
<knome> (and xubuntu, ofc)
<cyphermox> doesn't look to be the case
<cyphermox> oh, you guys do your own uploader vetting for xubuntu, correct?
<Unit193> cyphermox: Our lead dev isn't MOTU, only Xubuntu packageset (and he's more fitting for upload than I am, he does work upstream as well.)
<knome> socially yes, but we do not have delegation to grant upload rights afaik.
<cyphermox> ok
<Unit193> We don't, still have to go to the DMB.
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> I would expect it would be just a formality though; where people can naturally "graduate" from packageset to MOTU easily
<cyphermox> right now I'm just thinking; so I can prepare for making changes (which I think we shouldn't do until post-release anyway)
<knome> Unit193, did bluesabre apply for MOTU already?
<Unit193> knome: Not that I know of, just looked and he has an old application (last edited 2015) but that's it.
<knome> right... i wonder how many uploads he had done at that point then, and if he applied
<knome> because i would also think it would be a formality to jump from packageset uploader to MOTU, but i don't know what the reality is
<knome> at this point i definitely think there should be no stopper for bluesabre to be approved as a MOTU if he only applied
<Unit193> Still have to find a meeting at a time you can attend, get sponsors to endorse, etc.
<knome> indeed. these kinds of "just a formality" things tend to get tedious because of silly things like this.
<knome> cyphermox, ^ a note to you too in case you happen to be involved with these processes...
<cyphermox> I am
<cyphermox> we want to make it easier
<cyphermox> indeed bluesabre has only xubuntu packageset
<knome> sure, we were pondering whether the application for MOTU was prepared but never submitted. my memory doesn't serve back to 2015...
<Unit193> We need to keep an eye on https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14972 I think.
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14972 in General "met.no sunrise API needs to be updated another time." [Normal,New]
 * Unit193 tempted to steal the patch as-is.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-14
<bluesabre> Unit193, knome, cyphermox; yeah, never applied for MOTU, should do that soon. I don't mind if others are able to upload xfce packages, but it would be very inconvenient if I became unable to :)
<bluesabre> Spass[m], honestly, I am somewhat considering the color emojis now, since the non-color ones just look so bad (and since we've got a lot more gtk3 now). We'll likely revisit it with the next cycle (e)
<bluesabre> knome, I won't be around tonight, so I'll likely miss the upload window. Unit193 might be able to do the honors though.
<knome> ok, i'll just file a UIFe bug if we don't make it
<Unit193> "Oh lets make Unit193 do it!  He doesn't have a life!" :D
<knome> not a big deal..
<knome> hah.
<knome> yeah, that's it
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Also yes that's true I should be available.
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> I also normally don't have a life, but the last 3 months have been weird
<bluesabre> ochosi, care to tag a new elementary-xfce release?
<Unit193> We're going to have to 0ubuntu1 that.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, aforementioned weather panel thingymajig bug?
<bluesabre> Unit193, yeah, looks like I'm on the hook for reviewing that patch and merging it in, so should have a patch/release this weekend
<bluesabre> Unit193, also happy for the next screensaver release, which should also happen this weekend (0.1.4) https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-screensaver/tree/NEWS
<Unit193> I might be stuck doing a FFe type thing for Debian on that. :/
<bluesabre> oh boy
<Unit193> bluesabre: So when the screen sleeps, it locks even though I have set it to not lock.
<bluesabre> Unit193, that sounds wrong
<bluesabre> :\
<bluesabre> Unit193, 0.1.3 or git master?
<bluesabre> (I wouldn't expect it to be fixed in git if it was in the last release, but I would expect breakage since the last release)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Well, "lock screen" is enabled, but "lock screen with screensaver" isn't.  Perhaps I misunderstood something?
<Unit193> This is the release.
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> Yeah, "lock screen" without "lock screen with screensaver" just enables locking on-demand
<bluesabre> so, interesting bug
<bluesabre> Will take a look this weekend
<Unit193> Which is what I presumed.  Is there an option to lock or not on suspend/resume (or is that session stuff, I don't remember)?
<Unit193> Added support for locking on suspend  Ah. :D
<bluesabre> Unit193, that preference exists in the power manager
<Unit193> Gotcha, makes sense.
<bluesabre> good reminder to check that code... I'm betting it ignores the power manager preference now
<bluesabre> anyway, gotta run, bb... tomorrow
<Unit193> Have fun!
<Spass> knome, any sneak peak of the new wallpaper? I'm always interested in those :)
<knome> Spass, $later ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-15
<ochosi> isn't it UIF today?
<ochosi> fwiw, we still have a slight issue in our plymouth fsck progressbar - i recently noticed it's blue and doesn't work on all background (e.g. purple)
<ochosi> s/background/backgrounds/
<ochosi> not sure i'll have time to fix that today
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you have time to upload elementary-xfce and greybird and if it helps, i can do quick releases of both (not even sure right now if there's a big delta)
<bluesabre> ochosi, freeze window closed yesterday, so everything will need UIFe's :) Feel free to do some releases though and we'll get them in
<ochosi> ah, ok, at least we're not in a hurry then :D
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi, the plymouth thing might not be an issue... the wp drafts I've seen are dark-colored
<ochosi> yeah, not for this release
<ochosi> but for the future i'd prefer to fix it
<bluesabre> definitely
<ochosi> are we already shipping/using xfce4-screensaver in the upcoming release?
<ochosi> (sorry, i'm a little off track lately)
<bluesabre> ochosi, not for this release, lots of things threw me off development in the last few months
<bluesabre> planning to for the start of e though
<bluesabre> I think... studio might be considering it for disco though
<ochosi> oh ok, wow
<ochosi> well anyway, will be a good switch i think
<ochosi> i don't have time to invest into light-locker anymor
<ochosi> e
<ochosi> and some of the inherent problems cannot be solved from within light-locker anyway...
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> got a new performance release coming in a few days, https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-screensaver/tree/NEWS
<bluesabre> been suspending my laptop in various configurations a lot the last few days for some extended testing :D
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> kewl
<ochosi> i've also finalized the colord frontend integration btw
<ochosi> so i'll merge that in a few days i think
<ochosi> did some final code review, indentation fixes etc
<ochosi> but it should be good to go
<ochosi> only nuisance is that xiccd is not as stable as i would wish
<ochosi> so at some point i guess i need to do the server side of colord...
<bluesabre> ochosi, but I think the current implementation is good for now :)
<bluesabre> once that's merged, I'll run it through coverity scan for a spot check
<ochosi> good idea
<franksmcb> I know the test case results were clearned from the iso tracker.  Are y'all looking for more runs of the test cases at this time?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-16
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Add 19.04 desktop wallpaper, ready for the UIFe process. @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=b2896fad311c2279905712be5d2614b89912af21 (by Pasi Lallinaho)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Revert "Add 19.04 desktop wallpaper, ready for the UIFe process." @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=f0ee363a10533a5e37fd40905bbb62781aca5c50 (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<knome> Unit193: do we need to registed launchpad "series" now that we're using git and you can't bind git branches to series?
<knome> uife bug #1820388 (pending plymouth wallpaper update, so don't sub others yet)
<ubottu> bug 1820388 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) " [UIFe] New wallpaper for Xubuntu 19.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820388
<bluesabre> knome, yeah, the lp series don't do anything for us now, so we just use the branches instead
<knome> good to know
<knome> do they even do anything for the history, eg. should we just delete them all to avoid confusion if they are hollow?
<bluesabre> That... I don't know
<knome> because they do not link to any branches obviously
<knome> https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/cosmic
<knome> this doesn't look like anything that's useful for anybody
<bluesabre> Yeah, that looks useless
<knome> neither does this, and is just a boring/confusing/useless/outdated list: https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+series
<bluesabre> fair point
<knome> and i don't think we use the series for anything internally either; there are no milestones or blueprints
<knome> (and once i get my act together and finish the development tracker code, we don't have to do blueprints on launchpad for anything)
<knome> so i will go ahead and delete these all for -artwork to begin
<bluesabre> Sounds good to me
<knome> son woke up, so now i can go work on my desktop; brb
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> aaahhh... there are some old bzr branches for the old series
<knome> so those should be kept
<knome> ...i guess
<knome> "View Bazaar branches" show this: https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+branches
<knome> doesn't show any old series branches
<knome> ..but they exist, like here: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/zesty/files
<knome> ...what? :P
<knome> oh, any active status
<knome> right.
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> bluesabre, Unit193: to both of you, how do you feel about keeping old stuff in bzr branches? do we let them just be, or do we want to migrate them as git branches?
<bluesabre> knome, I think it makes sense to migrate them to git so everything is in one place
<knome> yeah, me too
<knome> and that way we can remove the series for good
<knome> tbh, we can remove those series now
<knome> the bzr branches do not need the series to exist...
<knome> uhh...
<bluesabre> https://wiki.bluesabre.org/development/git-migrations
<knome> can of worms.
<knome> https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/+packages
<knome> we need to unlink these first
<bluesabre> hoo boy
<knome> yeah
<knome> i guess i'll just mark all of the series obsolete
<bluesabre> I've actually gotta step out for a bit, but I'll bbabl
<knome> yeah, i think i'll be gone then
<knome> hf
<bluesabre> seeya knome, have a fun day
<knome> ta
<knome> bluesabre, your tutorial misses the requirement to have bzr-fastimport installed
<bluesabre> dang
<knome> np. :)
<knome> also misses explanation on importing from different location (eg. bzr and git branches live in different dirs, but i assume you just change the "." part in the fast-export command
<knome> also doesn't mention if the git branch needs to exist before importing
<bluesabre> I think `--git-branch=0.1` does that
<knome> yep
<knome> and oh, yes i understand the "different dirs" problem now
<knome> :P
<knome> basically just do >file instead of piping to git-import, then run git-import with the file
<knome> let's see if i blow up something :)
<knome> bluesabre, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rf8TZMBR5f/
<knome> where xubuntu-artwork is the dir for the git repository
<knome> also need to remember to cd ..
<knome> bluesabre, updated https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gN33H9K6XT/
<knome> also git fast-import didn't work with a file parameter, needs piping
<knome> heeeey :D https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/+git/xubuntu-artwork/+ref/karmic
<knome> doing another automated test.
<knome> fun! https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/+git/xubuntu-artwork/+ref/jaunty
<knome> bluesabre, another thing, i'm not sure the last command (--tags) is needed, i keep getting a message telling the tags are rejected since they already exists -- even the tags that come from the new branch!
<knome> i should be able to migrate all branches from bzr to git before i leave and when i get back i will look at deleting those bzr branches and stuff
<knome> ok, all xubuntu-artwork branches are in git now.
<knome> bbl.
<knome> have a nice saturday!
<knome> nuked the series for -artwork, branches are still intact
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Transition xubuntu-artwork for elementary-xfce-icon-theme package @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=8788b9a5f97a49ebbfdc56917d8764d5cbf412d0 (by Sean Davis)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-17
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: as we already ship xfdesktop 4.13.3 this patch would be quite important to include: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=2d9a081c0ff88cb2c2061beb345d1eb8ec3c070b
<ochosi> unfortunately otherwise the icon positioning will be messed up for people who use custom placement
<ochosi> mea culpa
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-09
<jphilips> knome: was thinking to do a post on social media for those with website development skills. would they just need wordpress skills?
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
<jphilips> Is the text on the slides not translatable, or has it just not been translated into japanese - https://i1.wp.com/jikantoki.gozaru.jp/bin/blog/xubuntu/ubiquity7.png
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-10
<jphilips> are all aware that adwaita icons seems to be broken - https://discourse.bigdaddylinux.com/uploads/default/original/1X/796e73015e3ad8fdacf99d82750f8bf6b3a2d390.png
<jphilips> they are symbol icons
<jphilips> i switched to adwaita style and icons and thunar looks bad
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/pwg27In.png
<jphilips> no icons for the home child folders
<brainwash> since when?
<brainwash> looks normal here
<brainwash> last update of the adwaita icons package was 2019-10-18
<jphilips> the first pic was from 19.10 by the BDLL team and the second pic was from 20.04 from me
<brainwash> I have 20.04 too
<JackFrost> What icons packages?  There's extended ones I believe.
<brainwash> you mean -full?
<JackFrost> Binary: adwaita-icon-theme, adwaita-icon-theme-full  sure, so it seems.  I don't care about Adwaita, soo.
<jphilips> ochosi: are you aware of this ^^^
<jphilips> so -full isnt installed by default
<jphilips> -full is 7mb to download and 23mb installed
<jphilips> we would need to either also bundle -full or remove the non-full as having something broken by default its good UX
<JackFrost> bluesabre: So.  Maybe we should do a meeting before release time.
<jphilips> JackFrost: yes definitely. i got things on the agenda :D
<jphilips> brainwash: so about the adwaita issue, dont know where to file the bug, as its not a bug in the package, but a bug with xubuntu, so do you know where on launchpad to file this
<JackFrost> But it's not one we can really fix, things depend on adwaita-icon-theme so we can't blacklist it.
<JackFrost> ...Pretty sure the icon selector thing mentions that the icon theme is incomplete.
<jphilips> JackFrost: nope doesn't mention it. so you're saying that we cant remove it from being bundled and if so, then we should also bundle -full
<JackFrost> I highly disagree with that, we don't use it by default and have no use for it.
<jphilips> can the broken one be removed?
<jphilips> sorry, you already answered that :D
<JackFrost> You can see what all it'd affect with `apt -s remove adwaita-icon-theme` though.
<jphilips> pretty much takes down the entire xubuntu and xfce stack
<jphilips> main dependant is likely libgtk-3-0
<brainwash> jphilips: xubuntu-meta
<jphilips> search on launchpad is bad. had to use google to find the page
<jphilips> okay submitted - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1866814
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1866814 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Adwaita icon theme is broken" [Undecided,New]
<jphilips> are all the panel profiles distributed with xubuntu from upstream?
<brainwash> jphilips: https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-panel-profiles/tree/data/layouts
<jphilips> so they are all upstream
<jphilips> would xubuntu want to carry any new ones downstream, as i'm working on one to resemble windows 7
<jphilips> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-March/011869.html
<brainwash> and the reasoning is?
<brainwash> you can just forward them upstream
<brainwash> the goal should be to reduce workload
<jphilips> initially assumed the xubuntu themes would have been carried downstream, as they are xubuntu specific, but see thats not the case
<jphilips> doubt the mac os panel layout could be done downstream as it would also need activation of plank
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add neutron-ovn-metadata-agent to supported-misc-servers @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=767bc794b6c122b840ede895f3f267bfcad4f123 (by James Page)
<jphilips> does xubuntu participate in gsoc?
<brainwash> jphilips: wouldn't make much sense I'd think
<brainwash> but for Xfce it could
<jphilips> sorry wrong channel :D
<jphilips> but yes does xfce participate
<brainwash> no
<jphilips> might be a good idea way to bring in some new blood
<jphilips> as long as there are mentors to assist them
<jphilips> guess its to late for this year as they announced the orgs last month
<JackFrost> I'm not sure the Xfce devs have the available time to properly mentor someone.
<JackFrost> Of course I could be wrong.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-11
<knome> jphilips, we're running wordpress, so yes, that's kind of a minimum requirement if you want to work with the internals... though we have many different codebases still
<knome> jphilips, for what exactly are you shouting out in social media?
<JackFrost> That thing that's supposed to track things!
<knome> it can still do that, but it needs manual setup
<knome> that's definitely non-wordpress php code
<jphilips> knome: for potential contributors to join the team for the website
<jphilips> knome: reminder to add 'the in the press' stuff i added to the document. added a few for 20.04 as well.
<jphilips> here's the link again https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qenHqnop4DWne2DsX5nPgaN7xdJLzL6etb0gfBGL6fk/edit#heading=h.pwohkmbiulx1
<knome> jphilips, ...to work on what? :)
<jphilips> whatever the team needs. maybe a redesign
<knome> i'm currently working on porting the design (not 1:1) to support gutenberg, which will allow for more flexibility in terms of page design
<knome> so that's not really required atm
<jphilips> so you dont need any help with the website presently?
<knome> the team will eventually likely need a website lead, but to become a team leader, you will have to make sustained contributions to the project first
<knome> the leadership positions are not filled in a whim, just because there isn't anybody to run a team
<knome> i understand some contributors might be turned off by this, but the reasoning behind this is to keep a certain level of stability
<knome> if we asked people to do, say, a redesign for us, i'm sure many people would say "yes, i will do it!"
<knome> of which many would do some plans but not follow them through and expect the team to take maintain responsibility
<knome> i mean, the team to execute their plans
<knome> or simply disappear
<knome> some more might follow through with the redesign, but not do it completely, leaving the team again with unfinished work and/or maintaining burden
<jphilips> well in order for someone to eventually become a team lead, we have to get them to start doing sustained contributions
<jphilips> for that we have to tell people that they can do some work with the team
<knome> yes,
<knome> but a website redesign isn't a realistic first task
<knome> it's a lot of work and again, we don't only want somebody to do the redesign and leave the team with it, we'd highly prefer if we knew the person would be there to maintain stuff
<jphilips> okay, was just giving the website design as a potential idea, i'll leave it to you to delegate the tasks when they arrive :D
<jphilips> would any of those task require a knowledge of wordpress
<knome> a good starting point for somebody who would like to be involved with the website, ultimately including a potential redesign, would be to start with tinkering with the content
<knome> and do small updates on the layouts, looks
<knome> this will be easier after the gutenberg rewrite
<knome> knowledge in wordpress is highly recommended, but not a hard requirement
<knome> knowledge with the wordpress internals (php level) would be even greater, but not a hard requirement either
<knome> anyway, i have a work-related meeting, bbabl
<jphilips> knome: i'm ready to start tinkering with the content to add in the changes we agreed upon in the various contribution pages
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.4.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-4-3-released-tp57722.html (by Graeme Gott)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-12
<jphilips> shouldnt application menu have the same icon as the whisker menu, as i see application menu with an 'X' icon
<brainwash> jphilips: whisker menu has its own icon
<brainwash> https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/tree/icons
<jphilips> brainwash: all the panel profiles use the same icon for the menu whether its whisker or not
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/vOaHF53.png
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/4SoXXEE.png
<brainwash> the blue one is the xubuntu icon
<brainwash> light blue version is whisker menu one
<brainwash> Xfce default is the X I think
<jphilips> any ideas why X is appearing in xubuntu. would this be an icon theme issue?
<brainwash> it can appear if you add the application menu to the menu
<brainwash> manually
<brainwash> ehm.. to the panel
<brainwash> if the app menu is added via a panel profile, then it will use the icon which was set in the stored settings file
<jphilips> brainwash: so no way to set it system wide so it works always
<brainwash> jphilips: probably no
<jphilips> working on the xubuntu welcome app at https://github.com/philipzae/xubuntu-hello/
<jphilips> its mainly finished accept for 3 html files which have to be changed to xubuntu specific info
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-13
<jphilips> knome: reminder that i'm willing to help out
<bluesabre> jphilips: I think distributor-logo is the X icon if you install the icon theme from git
<jphilips> bluesabre: i have the git icon theme installed and X is still showing
<bluesabre> Right, if you install from our package, we actually install the xubuntu-specific one over distributor-logo
<bluesabre> distributor branding :)
<jphilips> oh okay i get it now. ;D
<jphilips> running yesterday's daily image and noticed that elementary xfce icons are at the bottom of the icons tab
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/1xl37kf.png
<jphilips> ochosi: ^^^
<JackFrost> bluesabre: When would you be available for a meeting?  IIRC you said you were pretty busy this week.
<jphilips> was checking whisker menu on the live cd and see 'Log Out' is an entry in it. is this supposed to be there?
<bluesabre> JackFrost: I'm starting to free up. Get something on the calendar that's not tomorrow and I'll make it work
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-14
<JackFrost> bluesabre: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/03/msg00002.html Debian freeze policy updates, for whatever it's worth.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: gigolo 0.5.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-gigolo-0-5-1-released-tp57787.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
<brainwash> bug 1867423
<ubottu> bug 1867423 in glibc (Ubuntu) "Update to glibc 2.31-0ubuntu5 breaks system" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867423
<brainwash> today's update
<jphilips> that is a bad one
<brainwash> if you want a working system, don't update today :)
<jphilips> was trying out kubuntu in VM and the one from yesterday didnt show the desktop wallpaper, so i was thinking that someone funny was going on
<jphilips> any idea why 'user and groups' wouldnt be an entry in settings manager
<brainwash> not installed?
<jphilips> my mistake, i just didnt see it. lol
<jphilips> was thinking to propose we use a different image viewer, but wonder how ingrained we are with using the xfce app if there is one
<Unit193> Nice, thanks for the hint.
<jphilips> anyone here know someone from the kubuntu team?
<Unit193> RikMills is from Kubuntu.
<Unit193> Just uploaded xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin_0.2.2-1_source.changes to Debian.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-15
<jphilips> shouldn't the installer's first page show an xubuntu logo rather than ubuntu - https://i.imgur.com/zWjCCxb.png
<jphilips> file it - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1867515
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1867515 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[xubuntu] logo doesnt appear on first page" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> Unit193: please update both Xfce components in https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/experimental
<jphilips> any thoughts on how i can fix this - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/1834269
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1834269 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "'Official documentation online' link not linking to latest docs" [Medium,Triaged]
<brainwash> jphilips: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/view/head:/slideshows/xubuntu/slides/02_support.html
<brainwash> knome can help with that
<jphilips> see its not a git repo
<jphilips> the slide with the irc link also needs to be updated
<jphilips> reported both of these before the 19.10 release
<jphilips> both are easy fixes
<jphilips> if it was possible to push to it or submit a patch
<joe-zinck> Hi, I'm building custom iso from dailybuilds (xubuntu) and only recently update-initramfs has stopped working in chroot env. After install, the initramfs builds, but this is an issue that causes rebranding issues for derivative compliance. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 
<Joe-Zinc> Hi, I'm building custom iso from dailybuilds (xubuntu) and only recently update-initramfs has stopped working in chroot env. After install, the initramfs builds, but this is an issue that causes rebranding issues for derivative compliance. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
<joe-zinck> Considering I haven't paid a dime, this is the level of help that I should expect. Since I've already been fixing up this beautiful bundle of spaghetti, I'll just carry on- I have, in fact, found and resolved two other issues which upstream should like, but lets not bother.
<bluesabre> !team | Better late than never, the wallpaper contest is now closed. Get in there and vote. :)
<ubottu> Better late than never, the wallpaper contest is now closed. Get in there and vote. :): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> 1. Login to https://contest.xubuntu.org/ with your xubuntu-team credentials.
<bluesabre> 2. Click on Contests in the sidebar
<bluesabre> 3. Hover the 20.04 contest
<bluesabre> 4. Click Vote
<brainwash> the winner is... https://contest.xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Just-Blue.png
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> That was me making sure the submission form still worked
<brainwash> you raised the bar pretty high with your submission :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: do i get a vote?
<bluesabre> jphilips: you're not yet a member of https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/+members
<bluesabre> Requirements: https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributor/C/xsd.html#xsd-community-team
<bluesabre> Though admittedly, the current xubuntu-team needs to be cleaned up according to the 6-month contribution cycle
<bluesabre> Since you've started to revitalize our social media presence, I'd imagine the easiest path in would be marketing
<Unit193> brainwash: I don't think panel is in Debian exp yet.
<brainwash> Unit193: true
<jphilips> brainwash: are you not a member?
<brainwash> jphilips: no
<jphilips> because you dont want to be?
<brainwash> exactly
<jphilips> but you contribute anyway :D
<brainwash> anyway?
<jphilips> bluesabre: well i dont see a means for me to apply to be a member, so i'll wait for one of the team to nominate me to be a member
<brainwash> sounds weird
<jphilips> okay nonetheless
<bluesabre> jphilips: you can apply by emailing the xubuntu-devel mailing list, or by being nominated. I suggest going ahead and emailing that list with an introduction of yourself and your intent to become a member... to fill in the other members and the community :)
<Unit193> With regards to your last email, after feature freeze really isn't the best time to be making seed changes.
<krytarik> bluesabre, knome: Ugh, this time, clicking on the vote buttons (plus and minus) doesn't seem to do anything. :/
<krytarik> Well, once you reload the voting page, it indicates something has been chosen, but it would seem you can't downvote.
<krytarik> That is to say, once you upvote an image, reloading the page makes the buttons gray, with the plus button being dark.  Then you can undo the selection by clicking the minus button, after which both are colored again.  And if you downvote an image you haven't touched before, similarly it doesn't change the state and the buttons remain colored.
