#launchpad-meeting 2008-01-30
<warp10> Hi all
 * gmb -> drink before meeting
<edu710> hello
<cperrin88> hi
<edu710> i'm a beginner and i speak more french ;-)
<cperrin88> Freanch ..... not realy my favourite language
<edu710> but you have a name for great chemist
<cperrin88> My step father is french
<edu710> i don't see more traffic is it normal
<cperrin88> No one is talking but you and me
<edu710> good  sorry for my english i have not a lot vocabulary
<cperrin88> My french is worse than your english
<edu710> here have 28 user
<edu710> i think the irc is animated more
<cperrin88> this channel starts at 17:00 UTC
<cperrin88> there is a meeting
<edu710> i have a idea ist the utc time or other
<edu710> have you participate an older meeting
<cperrin88> that's 18:00 french time
<cperrin88> nope
<edu710> yes its 17h35
<edu710> i have send a private discussion with math revell
<edu710> do you use lauchnpad i suppose
<cperrin88> Yes
<edu710> which version or dsitrib of ubuntu do you use
<cperrin88> Ubuntu 7.10
<mrevell> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:59. The chair is mrevell.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mrevell> [TOPIC] Welcome!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Welcome!
<mrevell> Hello! Welcome to the first Launchpad users meeting of 2008!
<mrevell> Who's here for the meeting? Say "me" if you are :)
<mrevell> me
<cperrin88> me
<mrevell> Okay, well, I know there are more of you out there. Don't be shy :) We'll get the meeting going.
<mrevell> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<mrevell> Here's what's on the agenda for today's meeting:
<mrevell> * Your issues with Launchpad: has something bugged you about Launchpad recently?
<mrevell> * User questions: from the agenda and then from anyone in the channel.
<mrevell> * Join the Launchpad beta team!
<mrevell> * Launchpad documentation team
<mrevell> * Next meeting
<mrevell> Want to add something for a future meeting? You can find the agenda at:
<mrevell> https://help.launchpad.net/UsersMeeting
<mrevell> [TOPIC] Your issues with Launchpad
<MootBot> New Topic:  Your issues with Launchpad
<mrevell> In this section, I'd like to hear from you if you've come across a problem, annoyance or other issue with Launchpad.
<mrevell> If it's simple, we should be able to either solve it or file a bug right now. Otherwise, I'll take it to the wider Launchpad team.
<mrevell> So, anyone have an issue they'd like to raise?
<edu710> i'm back
<edu710> hello
<mrevell> Hi edu710, welcome to the meeting
<RainCT> Hi
<mrevell> Hi RainCT
<edu710> i'm poor beginner frenchie and i'm not fluent in english sorry
<mrevell> Okay, it looks as though no one has an issue they'd like to raise. Don't forget, you can always find the Launchpad team in #launchpad here on Freenode.
<mrevell> edu710: Si vous preferez ecrir en francais, vous pouvez me contactez a feedback@launchpad.net
<mrevell> Okay, let's move on.
 * Rinchen raises hand
<mrevell> Hi Rinchen
<Rinchen> hi mrevell.
<edu710> super you have wrote  I'd like to hear from you if you've come across a problem, annoyance or other issue with Launchpad.
<edu710> and i have a uestion in direct
<mrevell> edu710: Yes. Please ask away
<edu710> sorry question
<edu710> why launchpad interface is not translated i'm very interessting by this feature
<mrevell> edu710: That's a good question, thanks for asking it.
<edu710> and i have another
<edu710> ;-)
<mrevell> edu710: As a team, we recognise the importance of making software available in different languages.
<mrevell> You've probably seen our Translations application.
<mrevell> Unfortunately, there is a limited number of people working on Launchpad right now and we've decided to focus our resources on creating new functionality
<edu710> i 'm interresting by the translation and i'm disapointed because some software don't use launchpad
<edu710> who solve this problem but i think we haven't solution c'est dommage(in french)
<edu710> which adress for "our translation application"
<mrevell> and although we do plan to eventually provided localised interfaces to Launchpad, we're focusing on getting the new features out there in English because so much free sofware work already happens in English.
<beatrix> me
<mrevell> hey beatrix, welcome tot he meeting.
<edu710> hi !
<mrevell> edu710: So, is your second question about how to encourage projects to use Launchpad Translations?
<edu710> yes indirectly
<mrevell> Another great question :) I think one way we can encourage our favourite projects to use Launchpad Translations is to show them the success that other projects have had.
<mrevell> One story that we often tell is that of Jokosher. Jokosher is an audio editor for Gnome. They put their translation templates on Launchpad but didn't tell anyone about it. Within a couple of weeks they already had translation efforts in a number of langauges.
<mrevell> Ubuntu is great example of how Launchpad can combine upstream translations.
<mrevell> [ACTION] mrevell to write Translations case studies
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mrevell to write Translations case studies
<mrevell> edu710: What barriers do you think there are to getting projects to use Launchpad Translations?
<edu710> i think launchpad is a very good application i've tested another application with .po and i prefer launchpad
<mrevell> That's good to hear :) Okay, any other questions before I take the question from the agenda?
<cperrin88> not from me
<edu710> the person (developper team and another) is good response ?
<mrevell> edu710: Sorry, I don't understand.
<edu710> i have some project but isn't in launchapad interface translation
<beatrix> I'm an  ubuntu translator and I find the launchpad very helpful
<mrevell> edu710: What projects are you thinking of?
<mrevell> beatrix: That's wonderful to hear! Is there anything you think we could be doing better?
<beatrix> I think that there aren't any problem to solve in launchpad
<edu710> je disais que les dÃ©veloppeurs Ã©tant libre de choisir leur interface de traduction, ils ne choisiront pas forcÃ©ment lauchpad sorry for french
<edu710> mais it's more quickly
<edu710> i have some probleme for time response
<mpt> edu710, do you mean you're waiting for the translation imports?
<edu710> yes bea it's my idea also
<edu710> i've not tested this feature mpt sorry i'm a beginner
<mrevell> edu710: Where have you had problems with response time? When you contact the Launchpad team? Or when you contact other projects who don't use Launchpad?
<mpt> edu710, if you're the developer of a project and you're having trouble setting it up for translations, we'll be interested to know what problems you're having
<beatrix> mrevell, the translation is very rapid and efficient
<edu710> sorry i'm not develloper i' m a tester and user of software
<mrevell> beatrix: Okay, no problem :) If you'd like to email in French, that is no problem.
<mrevell> Thanks beatrix.
<mrevell> Let's move on. Any other questions?
<beatrix> mrevell, I'm italian ^__-
<mrevell> beatrix: Ah, so you may know mdke.
<edu710> yes bea i'm french but in computer the language is english ;-)
<mrevell> Okay, I'll take the question from the agenda:
<mrevell> * Essential info to users just joining the launchpad system. Such as groups to plug into and people to talk to - tjgillies
<mrevell> It looks as though tjgillies isn't in the channel at the moment but I'll answer this now.
<mrevell> This is a great question and I've created a holding page on the Launchpad help wiki to store ideas on this:
<mrevell> https://help.launchpad.net/NewToLaunchpad
<edu710> for the timing i have a personal solution i translate one or two item and i save
<mpt> edu710, ah, timeout errors. We keep track of those and put effort into fixing them.
<mpt> I'm not sure if anyone's working on the timeout with the translation form at the moment
<mrevell> mpt: I think jtv has been working on it.
<mrevell> Here's a very quick answer to tjgillies' question, which we can improve on using the page above.
<mrevell> There are three main ways to talk to the Launchpad team: irc in #launchpad, the launchpad-users mailing list and the feedback@launchpad.net address.
<edu710> i have falling the report but
<mrevell> You can also file a support request in Launchpad's Answers applications. More details are at:
<mrevell> https://help.launchpad.net/Feedback
<mpt> edu710, you can subscribe to bug 186900 if you want to be notified of our progress in fixing that problem.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 186900 in rosetta "timeouts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186900
<mrevell> If you need help in #launchpad and it looks like no one is around, good people to ping are me (mrevell), matsubara, mpt and Rinchen. We can help you find the right people to talk to or often help you directly ourselves.
<edu710> thanks mpt
<mrevell> Each Thursday the Launchpad team meeting is at 14.00 UTC here in #launchpad-meeting. Everyone is welcome to attend.
<mrevell> The Launchpad beta testers team I'll mention later.
<mrevell> Okay, before we move on with the meeting: any other questions?
<mrevell> 5
<mrevell> 4
<mrevell> 3
<edu710> not for me thanks for your responses and all
<mrevell> 2
<PaulSmits> ya
<mrevell> 1
<mrevell> PaulSmits: Hi
<mrevell> PaulSmits: Ask away :)
<PaulSmits> it's hard for new translators to find out how to start translating
<PaulSmits> because of the limitations
<PaulSmits> srry g2g
<mrevell> PaulSmits: Do you mean that Ubuntu translators need to be part of a translation team?
<PaulSmits> yes
<PaulSmits> it's not easy to find out how to get in the team
<mrevell> Sorry you have to go, this is something I think we can fix by improving interface text and our help text. Thanks for raising the issue. Mpt - any thoughts on that?
<mpt> This is bug 3 and bug 7
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 3 in rosetta "Custom information for each translation team" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 7 in rosetta "Need help for novice translators" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/7
<mrevell> thanks mpt
<mpt> Perhaps we need project-specific Translations guidelines, like the project-specific bug-reporting guidelines that we just introduced this month.
<mrevell> mpt: that sounds like a superb idea.
<mrevell> PaulSmits: If you subscribe to those bugs you'll be able to see the progress we make on this issue.
<mrevell> mpt: Would translator guidelines be pretty simple to implement, do you think?
<mpt> yes
<mpt> It would involve a change to the database, but not a complicated one
<mrevell> thanks mpt
<mrevell> thanks PaulSmits for your question!
<mrevell> Okay, any other questions before we move on?
<mrevell> 5
<mrevell> 4
<mrevell> 3
<mrevell> 2
<mrevell> 1
<mrevell> Right, thanks for your questions!
<mrevell> [TOPIC] Beta team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta team
<mrevell> We'd love to have you in the Launchpad beta testers team!
<mrevell> If you join, you'll get the first look at some of Launchpad's new features and you'll also make a massively valuable contribution to the future of Launchpad.
<mrevell> Find out more at:
<mrevell> https://help.launchpad.net/JoiningLaunchpadBetaTesters
<mrevell> When we're testing a new feature, we'll use this section of the meeting to give beta testers a chance to discuss what they've been testing and to give feedback.
<mrevell> If you've got any questions about the beta team, I'll be happy to answer.
<mrevell> [TOPIC] Documentation team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Documentation team
<mrevell> This is a quick one: in the next few days, I'll be launching the Launchpad Documentation team! Stay tuned to the launchpad-users mailing list for more info!
<mrevell> In the mean time, if you'd like to join the team, take a look at:
<mrevell> https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-doc
<mrevell> [TOPIC] Next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
<edu710> i'm (almost) lost in lauchnpad i read this links
<mrevell> February's Launchpad users meeting will be held on 20th February at 09.00 UTC. The agenda will be open for business after this meeting at:
<mrevell> https://help.launchpad.net/UsersMeeting
<mrevell> edu710: Perhaps you can help us to improve the user interface and the help documentation. As you're new to Launchpad, you have a fresh view of what we can do to make it easier to use.
<mrevell> Thank you everyone for coming to this meeting and for your contributions! Don't forget you can speak to use in #launchpad any time. Hope to see you at the next Launchpad users meeting - bring a friend :)
<edu710> i have joind the team doc i wait a approvement
<mrevell> edu710: Great!
<mrevell> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:38.
#launchpad-meeting 2008-01-31
 * gmb runs to get a drink
<kiko> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:59. The chair is kiko.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kiko> hello engineers of the third millenium
<kiko> welcome to another fantastic weekly meeting
<danilos> kiko: thank you
<kiko> hosted by your perpetually unstable chairman
<kiko> kiko o cruel
<intellectronica> me
<kiko> (that means kiko the humble in portuguese)
<kiko> where's my agenda
 * kiko shows raw text
<kiko> this is a RAW agenda
 * Hobbsee fears
 * Hobbsee covers eyes
<kiko> so who is here this bright morning
<mpt> me
<gmb> me
<kiko> me
<carlos> me
<matsubara> me
<adeuring> me
<intellectronica> me
<danilos> me
<sinzu1> me
<mrevell> me
<mthaddon> me
<bac> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<cprov> me
<salgado_> me
<Hobbsee> not me
<bigjools> me
<jtv> me
<allenap> me
<Iulian> me
<BjornT> me
<schwuk> me
<SteveA> me
<barry> me
<kiko> keep em coming
<flacoste> me
<vednis> me
<kiko> where's this new chap, maris
<kiko> ah there you ae
 * flacoste welcomes vednis
<statik> me
<kiko> are too
<kiko> SteveA, we have no stew.
<kiko> but now we do!
<stub> me
<Fujitsu> That was nice timing.
<stub> Slow clock sorry
<kiko> very good
<leonardr> me
<kiko> hello sprinters
<kiko> thanks for making it
<kiko> this meeting is not the same without sprinters
<kiko> so
<kiko> [TOPIC] agenda!
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda!
<kiko>  * Roll call
<kiko>  * Agenda
<kiko>  * Next meeting
<kiko>  * Actions from last meeting
<kiko>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<kiko>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<kiko>  * Bug tags
<kiko>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
<kiko>  * DBA report (stub)
<kiko>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<kiko>  * New packages required (salgado)
<kiko>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
 * kiko doesn't fuck up the paste! 10 points
<statik> hurrah!
<kiko> that knocks off two topics in one go
<mrevell> heh :)
<bigjools> kiko, your language is terrible today :)
<kiko> [TOPIC] behold a pale horse!! next meeting time
<MootBot> New Topic:  behold a pale horse!! next meeting time
<kiko> very good
<kiko> so Rinchen the Ill has been attempting to conspire to change the meeting time
<kiko> the proposed meeting time is 18:00 UTC
<kiko> this is in order to allow Tim Penhey the Kiwi to participate
<kiko> primarily
<kiko> I think it's really important that all team leads be here
<SteveA> and His Team of Antipodians
<SteveA> hi abentley
<SteveA> does aaron know about this meeting?
<kiko> I believe Rinchen has contacted most people more seriously affected by this change
<stub> Not me
<kiko> SteveA, that's probably a question for his manager and super-manager <wink>
<SteveA> stub: you commented in the last meeting
 * kiko hands edwinGrub some internet
<mpt> All our managers are super-managers
<kiko> is anyone surprised or taken aback by 18:00 UTC as the new meeting time, apart from stub?
 * SteveA basks in the flattery
<kiko> speak now or hold your peace until next thursday
<SteveA> jamesh is not here
<bigjools> I did not know about it
<danilos> I'd prefer to have it earlier once we hit summer time again
<danilos> until then, I am completely fine with it
<kiko> sure, we can consider changing it again in the future
<kiko> very well
<intellectronica> i'd prefer to have it earlier, since i have a class on thursday evenings
<intellectronica> that's not as serious as the kiwis' needs, though
<kiko> yeah, to me it's a big deal that tim can't come
<Hobbsee> 3am meetings are fun!
<kiko> intellectronica, chat with me about it after the meeting, maybe we can arrange something
<kiko> [AGREED] 18:00 UTC next thursday, next meeting
<MootBot> AGREED received:  18:00 UTC next thursday, next meeting
<kiko> thanks MootBot the Redundant
<danilos> kiko: I assume this is set for the future meetings as well?
<gmb> kiko: Someone should update the team calendar. Want me to take care of that?
<danilos> (until discussed and changed again)
<stub> If we are changing the time, we could consider changing the day too (although Thursday is now a good day for me)
<kiko> gmb, thanks!
<kiko> [ACTION] gmb to update the team calendar and the meeting agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  gmb to update the team calendar and the meeting agenda
<kiko> <wink>
<kiko> danilos, yes, that's correct.
<gmb> Boys and their toys...
<kiko> but we can change it again
<kiko> that's the beauty of decisions
<kiko> [TOPIC] Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from last meeting
<kiko> so the actions were:
<kiko>  * kiko to add the lp-dependencies question to the MeetingAgenda template
<kiko> I did that, but somebody killed it?
 * kiko curses
<kiko> oh, sorry, I did
<kiko>  * New packages required (salgado)
<kiko> 10 points for doing it, then -10 points for not noticing
<kiko> Rinchen and kiko have inflicted the 18:00 time on us, so done too
<kiko> SteveA and stub: staging sorted, I believe?
<kiko> and mrevell and mpt?
<kiko> * Rinchen and kiko to figure out how to manage lp-bzr's absence from the meeting; consider rotation or time-shift
<kiko>  * SteveA and stub to discuss options for staging DB and report back
<kiko>  * mrevell and mpt to discuss https://launchpad.net/bugs/185486
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 185486 in launchpad "Merge account option should be on profile page" [Undecided,New]
 * kiko discovers how to paste in X
<mpt> We discussed it briefly
<mpt> I don't remember the conclusion
<mrevell> mpt: We concluded, I believe, that you'd look at a better way of handling it.
<SteveA> we're putting staging on carbon
<mpt> ah yes
<kiko> GOOD
<mthaddon> yup
<mpt> I will need to solve it while rejigging the person page
<stub> kiko: staging only sorted in the short term, although that might depend on the langpack db
<mrevell> mpt: as part of the Actions menu changes, I think.
<kiko> the short term is what I'm after
<kiko> thanks stub
 * mpt assigns it to self
<kiko> thanks SteveA
<kiko> SteveA, mthaddon says there's an ETA of ~ 1.5 weeks on that
<kiko> confirmed?
<mthaddon> kiko, confirmed
<kiko> [AGREED] staging to carbon (and in 1.5 weeks or so)
<MootBot> AGREED received:  staging to carbon (and in 1.5 weeks or so)
<mthaddon> or sooner, I hope :)
<kiko> mpt, anything more to add to the subject?
<danilos> stub: what's going on with langpack db on carbon (if anything)?
 * kiko clicks tongue
<stub> danilos: I don't know
<kiko> [TOPIC]  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Oops report (Matsubara)
<kiko> do it mats
<matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 187389, 157606, 185706, 44834
<ubotu> Bug 187389 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/187389 is private
<matsubara> Yesterday I asked flacoste to take a look at bug 187389. It might interest
<matsubara> people in the SC team as well.
<ubotu> Bug 187389 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/187389 is private
<matsubara> I found out about it while trying to reproduce bug 157606. Someone from the Bugs team would like to take that one?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157606 in malone "IntegrityError with unknown milestone when changing bug's project" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157606
<mpt> kiko, I just assigned the bug to myself.
<mpt> for 1.2.4.
<kiko> mpt, thanks.
<matsubara> sinzu1: you ok with targetting bug 185706 to 1.2.2?
<kiko> matsubara, ah, because of the tickcount thing
 * sinzu1 thinks
<kiko> does that bug really need to be private?
<matsubara> stub, I've added 3 more OOPSes to 44834. Please follow up in the report if that sheds any light there.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 185706 in launchpad "OOPS in +editemails form if email address field is empty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185706
<sinzu1> matsubara: I'll commit to 1.2.2
<flacoste> hmm, we keep getting problems with the +editemails form
<matsubara> thanks sinzu1
<kiko> sinzu1, flacoste: what's up with that?
<flacoste> kiko: we'll look it up
<kiko> flaky validator is what this one looks like
<kiko> very well
<sinzu1> kiko: bad validation
<kiko> [AGREED} sinzui agrees to https://launchpad.net/bugs/185706 for 1.2.2
<MootBot> AGREED received: [AGREED} sinzui agrees to https://launchpad.net/bugs/185706 for 1.2.2
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 185706 in launchpad "OOPS in +editemails form if email address field is empty" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<matsubara> someone from Bugs?
<kiko> oh you don't need the angles, hmm
<BjornT> matsubara: you can assign bug 157606 to me
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157606 in malone "IntegrityError with unknown milestone when changing bug's project" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157606
<matsubara> Thanks BjornT
<kiko> flacoste, what's the decision on 187389?
<kiko> AGREED <BjornT> matsubara: you can assign bug 157606 to me
<kiko> hmm
<kiko> [AGREED <BjornT> matsubara: you can assign bug 157606 to me
<flacoste> flacoste: we'll also look that one up
<kiko> [AGREED] <BjornT> matsubara: you can assign bug 157606 to me
<MootBot> AGREED received:  <BjornT> matsubara: you can assign bug 157606 to me
<flacoste> kiko: ^^^
<kiko> weird.
<kiko> thanks flacoste
<matsubara> got it alredy
<matsubara> already, even
<kiko> [AGREED] <kiko> flacoste, to take 187389 for 1.2.2 too
<MootBot> AGREED received:  <kiko> flacoste, to take 187389 for 1.2.2 too
<kiko> matsubara, what else? I thought I saw some weird OOPSes in yesterday's report.
<stub> Bug 44834
<ubotu> Bug 44834 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/44834 is private
<matsubara> kiko: which one?
<kiko> matsubara, can't look them up now though
<matsubara> I asked stub to take a look in the weird ones from yesterday's
<matsubara> I don't know if it's the same, but it's a SQLObjectNotFound error
<kiko> right
<kiko> very good
<kiko> [TOPIC]  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<matsubara> jtv also took a look since the same bug hit on TrannslationMessage
<kiko> yeah, I saw that
<kiko> something about doesn't exist in the database, right?
<matsubara> no critical bugs from Rinchen
<kiko> great
<matsubara> yes kiko
<kiko> [TOPIC] * Bug tags
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Bug tags
<stub> matsubara: Not sure if I'm best for that - looking like an SQLObject issue, possibly caching.
<kiko> no tags proposed
<kiko> so it's getting to that time
<kiko> where tom tells all
<matsubara> stub: who'd be the best person to look at it? jamesh perhaps?
<kiko>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
<mthaddon> In the process of migrating the staging DB to carbon, demo to jubany and the langpack DB to asuka
<mthaddon> IS is working on the timing of testing for new production DB - I'll update everyone as soon as I know the details
<mthaddon> Did anyone have a chance to look at the backtrace I posted to the list?
<mthaddon> That's it from me unless there are any questions
<SteveA> stub: which bug is that?
<salgado> mthaddon, from which appserver is that BT?
<kiko> mthaddon, remind us about the backtrace.
<stub> Jubany should not be running demo
<kiko> ah, the crash
<kiko> core
<kiko> whatever
<mthaddon> salgado, it's from gandwana - not sure if it was lpnet3 or 4
<stub> Jubany is the production db and shouldn't be running anything else
<matsubara> SteveA: bug 44834
<ubotu> Bug 44834 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/44834 is private
<kiko> agreed with stub
<SteveA> I think jubany can run demo
<mthaddon> kiko, https://pastebin.canonical.com/2139/
<SteveA> I'm interested in a rationale for why it shouldn't
<kiko> matsubara, for bug 44834 to be properly debugged we'd need access to the DB logs.
<stub> it can, but it shouldn't. Sysadmin 101 stuff.
<ubotu> Bug 44834 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/44834 is private
<SteveA> I'm still not hearing a rationale
<danilos> mthaddon: what are the reasons to move langpack to asuka? jtv, have you been involved in these discussions?
<carlos> danilos: see the mailing list
<danilos> carlos: ok, thanks
<mthaddon> stub, my understanding is it's not a perfect solution, but better than having staging updates on carbon affect demo
<carlos> danilos: they need some disk space in carbon
<mthaddon> danilos, because we want to migrate staging DB to carbon, but we don't have enough disk space for that and langpack as well
<danilos> carlos: ok, but do we need langpack db if we can't use it for performance testing?
<kiko> carlos, danilos, jtv: asuka isn't a speed demon
<danilos> kiko: exactly my point
<kiko> oh that was unfortunate
<kiko> [TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)
<carlos> kiko: ;-)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (stub)
<matsubara> maybe he was writing it
<Hobbsee> kiko: op abuse, no?  :)
<kiko> yeah but I can't kick myself as host now
<kiko> grumble
 * Hobbsee can, if you like...
<stub> Because that is the most critical system we have. You just don't stick other stuff on there. If anyone things 'launchpad is slow today', we have to shut demo down to remove that variable.
<carlos> danilos: good point... although right now we worry more about being able to debug problems than performance. Anyway, jtv is going to discuss alternatives with Steve and kiko outside this meeting
<danilos> carlos: ok, just making sure we're on top of it
<jtv> carlos: right.  The big problem is that staging is too slow.
<stub> I can put more rationale together after the meeting.
<kiko> very well
<kiko> * DBA report (stub)
<kiko> anything of note and concern stub?
<stub> But I am strongly opposed to putting any unnecessary services on jubany and I'm fairly sure the IS group would back me on that.
<SteveA> I'd prefer we measure the effect of demo, and base a decision on measurement rather than just "nothing should run there"
<stub> SteveA: It is a production system. If we want to experiment on it, then you have been feeding people the wrong message the last year.
<stub> I've got most of a spec splitting Person into Person and Account, which is the first part of creating a high availability authentication service for things that need it, such as Landscape.
<stub> I'm unsure of the status of the new database hardware evaluation.
<stub> Nothing else to report at the moment.
<kiko> thanks stub
<kiko> great news on person versus account
<kiko> I will be your #1 fan when that's done
<kiko> btw, thanks also for helping me prepare the query
<kiko> for the SUBOPTIMAL distro upstream bugs report
<kiko> anyone else have anything to thank stub specially for?
<kiko> very well
<SteveA> the thing I don't get is that demo is meant to run exactly the same code as lpnet, just with a different database, for a small set of users evaluating it
<SteveA> demo is not for doing anything experimental on.
<SteveA> if we're doing experiments on 'demo', they need to stop
<stub> SteveA: It is taking resources on our bottleneck.
<kiko> SteveA, I think it's more the fact that there is load interaction from running two instances
<SteveA> stub: the APIs guys should read through your spec on splitting account and person
<stub> Even if the load is fine for the first day or week or month even, it an screw up at any time.
<SteveA> stub: please send leonardr a copy
<leonardr> yes please
<stub> I'll put the wiki link on the mailing list when I've filled in some remaining sections.
<kiko> how many of edwinGru do we need today?
<kiko> [TOPIC]  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<kiko> joey's sick
<kiko> so am I but I don't get any better so I'll handle this topic
<kiko> who has RT requests
 * EdwinGru develops the secret to cloning
<kiko> and wants them addressed
<mrevell> kiko: I have request 29852, which is about mail to launchpad-feedback bouncing
<kiko> bigjools, did we get the package you wanted backported?
<kiko> mrevell, so I don't get that. I have seen mail getting through there regularly
<kiko> wasn't that a one-off fluke?
<bigjools> kiko: lamont installed his first version in mawson and it worked very well when I tested it
<mrevell> As of yesterday, I was still seeing some mail bounces and it'd be nice if the IS guys could take a look.
<mrevell> kiko: some mail is getting through
<kiko> bigjools, that's great news! lamont is the man
<mrevell> kiko: but it appears other mail is bouncing.
<bigjools> he sure is
<kiko> mrevell, how does it bounce? can I see a bounce message?
<kiko> bigjools, communicate to him my thanks ** 2
<bigjools> will do
<mrevell> kiko: Sure, just a sec. It's complainging of a timeout
<kiko> he also helped me figure out my postfix mess
<kiko> okay
<kiko> any other RTs?
<kiko> [TOPIC]  * New packages required (salgado)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * New packages required (salgado)
<mrevell> kiko: https://pastebin.canonical.com/2168/
<salgado> if any of the branches you're working on right now depends on any library which is not part of the launchpad-dependencies package, come talk to me ASAP.
<kiko> anybody have library requests?
<kiko> 5
<kiko> 4
<kiko> 3
<kiko> 0
<kiko> very good!
<kiko> that didn't even hurt
<kiko> [TOPIC] * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<mrevell> hi
<kiko> hi
<mrevell>  I've got a couple this week.
<kiko> eww
<mrevell> :)
<mrevell> The main issue I've seen reported this week has been translation timeouts, although I've seen that jtv has responded to reports on launchpad-users.
<mrevell> jtv: is there a particular answer that you'd recommend for members of the Launchpad team to say if they're asked in #launchpad or other venues about translations timeouts?
<jtv> There was a spike last weekend.
<kiko> jtv, spike in use too? what do the server logs say?
<danilos> jtv: language pack generation?
<jtv> I have some recommendations that I repeat as necessary.
<kiko> yeah, not very comforting ones though
<jtv> danilos: possible
<kiko> so
<kiko> question for you
<kiko> carlos once upon a time wrote an AJAX suggestion fetcher
<kiko> what do we think of going back to that?
<jtv> kiko: Yes, we do think of that.
<jtv> kiko: sinzui has promised to look at that in later cycles.
<kiko> why sinzu1?
<carlos> kiko, jtv: I think we could try to profile current code again (it changed a lot with the new DB refactoring) before going for AJAX
<danilos> kiko: I think we can instead hardcode only the handful of messages (like "File", "Open") which cause the problem
<danilos> kiko: because we have thousands of rows for those
<kiko> danilos, hmmm, that's an interesting thought
<kiko> hardcode where?
<kiko> a special table?
<danilos> kiko: yeah, possibly
<SteveA> hardcode or cache
<kiko> interesting
<sinzu1> kiko: I was asked. I have some experience with that kind of problem. I have not hacked on it (I have some high priorities at this time)
<kiko> INTERESTING IDEA!!!
<danilos> kiko: these are only *external* suggestions, so it's not important to be 100% correct
<kiko> danilos, +10 for a great new interesting idea
<danilos> SteveA: hard code which ones we decide to cache
<kiko> I had not considered it before
<kiko> so two more topics before the bell strikes
<kiko> [TOPIC]  * Future of the "ui" bug tag (mpt)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Future of the "ui" bug tag (mpt)
<mpt> <https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs> says that the "ui" tag is for "A bug that suggests the user interface is confusing or otherwise difficult to use"
<SteveA> flacoste: can we talk over https://devpad.canonical.com/~matsubara/oops.cgi/2008-01-30/B1498 in a bit?
<kiko> so it does mpt
<mpt> but <https://launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+bugs?field.tag=ui> shows that it's been used for many bugs that happen to involve the UI at all
<flacoste> SteveA: sure, after our call maybe
<mpt> regardless of whether it's confusing or difficult
<kiko> mpt, okay
<kiko> mpt, why don't we have a confusing tag or something?
<mpt> So, we either need to reinforce the current meaning, change the meaning, or retire the tag
<SteveA> change the meaning
<SteveA> what kiko suggests
<SteveA> ui is for ui
<SteveA> confusing is for confusing
<kiko> I'd change the meaning to mean "ui-affecting" which is a useful thing
<mpt> I don't think a "ui-affecting" tag would be that useful, because it would apply to ~1/3 of all Launchpad bugs
<kiko> that's okay though
<mpt> and because I can't think of a use case for it
<mpt> Why would anyone search for bugs that did or didn't include that tag?
<kiko> there are interesting intersections
<kiko> soyuz and ui
<kiko> mpt, at any rate, you need a confusing tag, that's established
<kiko> we can retire ui separately
<mpt> ok
<kiko> or even later if you feel it's useless
<kiko> anyone have a comment on "confusing" as a bug tag?
<kiko> or do we want to hold this until the next meeting?
<kiko> SteveA, mpt?
<mpt> Perhaps I could think about it some more and make a proposal in the Bug Tags section next week
<kiko> mpt, very well
 * mpt ponders a justplainwrong tag
<kiko> last topic of the day
<kiko>  * What should we do about pillar +portlet-details (kiko)
<salgado> is it the bug report that is confusing?
<salgado> or the UI?
<kiko> [TOPIC at that * What should we do about pillar +portlet-details
<kiko> -10
<kiko> [TOPIC] * What should we do about pillar +portlet-details
<MootBot> New Topic:  * What should we do about pillar +portlet-details
<Hobbsee> mpt: *grin*
<Hobbsee> mpt: that would require being able to file tags on people.
<mpt> salgado, good point
<kiko> so intellectronica mpt and I have been engaged in a war around the +portlet-details portlet on pillars
<jtv> salgado: needs-info?
<mpt> I have?
<intellectronica> war?
<kiko> I have the feeling that +portlet-details has been a standard name for now
<kiko> and we expect most if not all content objects to have one
<kiko> do others share this view?
<intellectronica> i have a slight objection
<intellectronica> similar to mpt's, i guess
<kiko> so nobody cares about the fact that there is  a portlet-details for a bug, for instance, but not for product?
<kiko> yes intellectronica?
<mpt> kiko, that's a means assuming an end
<intellectronica> when the details portlet is not placed on the left hand column, i think it should have a different name
<mpt> What's your use case for everything having a portlet-details?
<intellectronica> i wasted a few good hours exactly because this is confusing
<kiko> I don't disagree intellectronica
<kiko> but that points to me to a separate problem
<kiko> a) does the actual code of the portlet need to be different?
<kiko> b) if it does, then shouldn't we have two separate files instead?
<kiko> mpt, adding portlet filler, mostly. but it's a de facto standard and if you want to change it you talk about it first
<mpt> kiko, we did, in 2006.
<kiko> are you being cheeky?
<mpt> Not at all.
<mpt> It was part of the Launchpad 1.0 design discussions.
<kiko> what did we agree to then? I am an old man and my memory is withered
<mpt> That for standard-ish metadata for projects, project groups, and distributions, we'd show it as a table on the Overview page, instead of as a portlet.
<kiko> mpt, that's not what I'm discussing
<kiko> what I'm discussing is the renaming of the portlet.
<kiko> you could have a) copied it or b) made it reusable as a table without renaming it
<mpt> I could have just embedded it into the Overview page and deleted the portlet entirely
<mpt> and then we wouldn't even be having this discussion
<kiko> okay I won't discuss this further, but where I see smoke..
<mpt> but I was in a hurry at the time, so I did it the quick way
<mpt> for which I am now truly sorry :-)
<kiko> last topic
<kiko> [TOPIC]  * Blockers
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Blockers
<flacoste> Foundations: not blocked
<jtv> Translations: need more kiko-time!
<BjornT> Bugs: not blocked
<matsubara> Releases Team: not blocked
<statik> lpcomm: not blocked
<adeuring> hwdb: not blocked
<bigjools> Soyuz: not blocked
<kiko> very well
<kiko> I think that's all, once more
<kiko> luckily for us
<kiko> and for the lunch downstairs too
<kiko> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:54.
<kiko> thanks for coming
<mrevell> Thanks all, thanks kiko
<statik> kiko: thanks for hosting, and for not kicking me
<kiko> as you can see, when I chair, we overrun!
<kiko> somebody should put up a vote to reinstate SteveA the Punctual
<flacoste> i thought SteveA was boycoittinf because of the channel change?
<kiko> flacoste, he's your manager, you talk to him!!
#launchpad-meeting 2009-01-28
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> mootbot!
<barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu meeting.  who's here today?
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<bac> me
<adeuring> me
<mars> me
<gmb> me
<rockstar> me
<barry> allenap: BjornT cprov gary_poster ping
<allenap> me
<gary_poster> me
<barry> intellectronica: ping?
<barry> salgado: ping
<salgado> me
<intellectronica> barry: i did apologise, no?
<barry> intellectronica: you did.  sorry.  i mssed that
<barry> intellectronica: thanks
<barry> well, i think it's a light day today so let's get to it
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> == Agenda ==
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry> i'm going to jump around a bit...
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry>  * barry to look into techniques for eliminating back-patching of schema types (avoiding circular imports)
<barry> i actually did look into this and tried a few things, but they all failed
<barry> i may do a very simple syntactic sugar branch for this but i might just drop this item
<barry> ping me if you're interested in the gory details :)
<barry>  * barry to add `pretty()` functions to reviewers docs
<barry> not done
<barry>  * flacoste to work on API reviewer cheat sheet
<mars> he's at the team leads sprint
<barry> i think flacoste probably didn't do this, and he's at tl sprint, so we'll just leave it
 * barry should type faster than mars
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<barry> do you guys have anything not on the agenda?
<bac> barry: abentley had a proposed item
<rockstar> Yea, but I can't seem to find him.
<barry>  * Should new classes be forbidden to use SQLObject compatibility layer, abentley
<barry> bac: thanks
<barry> looks like abentley is away on #launchpad-code
<rockstar> I think the answer is "Yes"
<barry> rockstar: i agree
<barry> bac: didn't you ping me yesterday about this?
<bac> abentley wrote a new db class that i reviewed yesterday.  it was not using storm so i requested he modify it to use storm, as it is my understanding that new db work use the storm api.
<rockstar> We should deprecate the SQLObject compatibility layer altogether, and convert the old classes to Storm.
<bac> he objected on the grounds the storm api is not as nice as the compatibility layer.
<bac> i did not approve his branch pending the discussion he wanted to have here.
 * barry thinks it's nicer :)
<barry> rockstar: +1
<bac> rockstar: that was my position
<rockstar> bac, this is true, but Storm is a Canonical project, so we should be dogfooding and making bug reports, etc.
<mars> barry, storm is nicer? or the compatibility layer?
<bac> rockstar: i totally agree.  it's unfortunate that aaron is not here to state his case.
 * barry likes storm
<rockstar> I can't tell you how happy I am that the LP team is dogfooding reviews.  It's allowed us to make all sorts of changes.
<gmb> +1 for Storm from me.
<bac> FTR i am +1 on requiring new work be storm api
<rockstar> +1 as well.  I think there's real value in dogfooding.
<barry> i wish abentley was here too
<adeuring> +1 too
<barry> [VOTE] +1 to require all new classes to use the storm api
<MootBot> Please vote on:  +1 to require all new classes to use the storm api.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting
<barry> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from barry. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<adeuring> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from adeuring. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<rockstar> 1
<gmb> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from gmb. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bac> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bac. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<allenap> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from allenap. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<gary_poster> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from gary_poster. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<salgado> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from salgado. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<barry> going once...
<barry> going twice...
<barry> sold!
<bac> barry, i'll take an action item to update wiki to reflect the policy.  should it go in PSG?
<barry> unanimous!  i'll post this to the ml and we can take objections there
<barry> [ACTION] barry to post storm requirement to ml
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to post storm requirement to ml
<barry> abentley: hi!  (almost) just in time :)
<abentley> me
<abentley> Sorry I'm late.  Real Life stuff...
<barry> abentley: we were just discussing your agenda item.  you have some 'splainin' to do :)
<barry> abentley: no worries
<abentley> Okay.
<abentley> Personally, I find the SQLObject compatibility shim a better API than the native Storm API.
<abentley> So I'd like to keep using it.
<abentley> But I've been told that official policy dictates that we use native Storm foo for new classes.
<abentley> So I wanted to bring it up for discussion.
<barry> abentley: what is it about the compatibility layer that you like better?
<abentley> barry: It doesn't require obtaining stores, it comes with get methods built-in, it comes with constructors built-in.
<barry> abentley: there's unanimous consensus (here, at least) that we should be dogfooding and improving storm, using it for all new classes
<mars> barry, I think abentley is arguing that the SQLObject API *is* an improvement on top of Storm
<allenap> Obtaining a store explicitly is a good pattern imho, because we must sometimes decide between master and slave.
<barry> mars: except that it's a horrible hack and i don't think it's even sqlobject-y any more
<abentley> allenap: Perhaps, but it's the wrong place to make that decision.
<mars> barry, ah
<abentley> allenap: You'd basically have to pass stores down a long call chain.
<barry> in the common case, it's one extra line
 * al-maisan apologizes for being late
<barry> store = Store.of(self)
<barry> okay, two.  you have to import Store
<allenap> abentley: What barry said.
<rockstar> barry, but what about choosing between master and slave?
<gmb> rockstar: It's still a one liner (imports notwithstanding). Slightly more complex
<barry> rockstar: i recall a discussion of this months ago.  the outcome (iirc) is that you almost never really have to decide
<EdwinGrubbs> rockstar: you normally let it automatically choose between master and slave based on whether it is a GET or POST request.
<abentley> You need to choose between master and slave at the call site, not in the implementation of a getter.
<barry> rockstar: and Store.of() will almost always DTRT
<rockstar> EdwinGrubbs, so it will figure out the Store automatically?
<abentley> barry: RIGHT!  We are writing an extra line to no purpose at all.
<abentley> I think there are at least two import lines, maybe three, also.
<barry> abentley: well, you can also write it like: Store.of(self).find(...)
<abentley> barry: Not in a classmethod or static method.
<barry> abentley: sure, but those aren't the common case
<abentley> Which is where you'd put a getter.
<abentley> Those are the common case if you're writing a getter.
<EdwinGrubbs> rockstar: yes, if you have made a write (POST) in the last few minutes, it will use the master. You only need to choose the master manually, when you can't tell from the browser session that the user needs very up-to-date info. For example, registering a new user or logging in.
<barry> abentley: really?  aren't getters usually instance methods?
<gmb> barry: They're instance methods for FooSet classes
<barry> gmb: right
<gmb> But we want to get rid of unnecessary *Sets, IIRC.
<barry> gmb: oh i see, you don't have a db object at that point.  yeah
<abentley> gmb: I don't use FooSets.  Classes are perfectly good utilities.
<gmb> abentley: ... which is why we want to get rid of unnecessary *Sets.
<abentley> Instead of class= you do component= and you're laughing.
<abentley> barry: I haven't been allocated time to improve the Storm API, and I'm not sure what kinds of changes are welcome.
<abentley> barry: It seems like the lack of constructors was a design choice, since all other ORMs do them.
<abentley> barry: So I don't think I'd be able to make Storm work as conveniently as the compatibility shim.
<barry> abentley: this all comes down to basic dogfooding rule #1.  same as for bzr, merge proposals, lazr.config, and on-and-on
<mars> we have dogfooding rules?
 * barry recalls a rather lengthy ml discussion about dogfooding recently :)
<mars> ok, I'll look it up
<barry> mars: well, it's related to merge proposals and their emails
<mars> barry, ok, so what's rule #1 then?
<abentley> barry: You'll note that in that discussion I didn't say "we must not use ML", I said we should work toward not needed to use MLs.
<barry> mars: i'm making it up as i go, but "we should dogfood our own technology and improve it"
<barry> even if that means sending a message to gustavo and/or the storm list with suggestions
<barry> iow, it would be great for abentley to send an email explaining where he finds the native api to be less ideal so we can at least start a dialog about if/how to improve it
<barry> abentley: i'm not saying your complaints about storm are without merit, just saying we should improve storm instead of punting
<barry> that's just my opinion though so if there's disagreement about that, please speak up!
<allenap> barry: +1 on not punting.
<abentley> barry: How about we not punt and change the shim into an explicit storm-for-launchpad library?
<mars> abentley, you should look up the "Five Whys" from lean.  It's a quality practice.  I think you've asked why #1, but that leaves maybe four more :)
<barry> abentley: the goal should be to eventually get that merged into storm.  unless there's compelling reasons to maintain our own shim i think the entire storm community should benefit from our experience
<abentley> barry: Sounds good to me.
<abentley> We can call it "mildstorm"
<mars> "turbulence"
<bac> i prefer squall
<mars> blizzard
 * barry looks out the window and suggests "blizzard"
<barry> mars: damn you again! :)
<abentley> barry: I hear ya.
<bac> just not "nor'easter" -- god i hate that
<barry> sounds good.  abentley, start with an email to the ml.  let's get the specific issues on the table.  please cc gustavo
<abentley> Okay.
<barry> thanks
<bac> abentley: a side-by-side comparison of the class your new class from yesterday may be a good example
<abentley> I take it not using the shim *really is* official policy?
<bac> doh, not writing english today
<barry> [ACTION] abentley to email ml and gustavo with suggestions for improving storm
<MootBot> ACTION received:  abentley to email ml and gustavo with suggestions for improving storm
<barry> abentley: for new classes, we really don't want to use the shim
<abentley> bac: I'll update my branch accordingly.
<barry> thanks.  good discussion.  anything else on this or any other non-agenda topic?
<bac> abentley: thanks.  and thanks for bringing the discussion here.  it was very useful.
<abentley> bac: Cool.
<barry> ok, one last thing before we break
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Mentoring update
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Mentoring update
<barry> any update from mentors or mentats?
<barry> no news is good news!
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:42.
<barry> thanks everyone!
<gary_poster> bye
<bac> thanks barry
<abentley> thanks, barry
#launchpad-meeting 2009-01-29
 * Ursinha looks
 * Ursinha hugs MootBot 
<Ursinha> you're here!
<mrevell> :)
<Ursinha> #startmeeting
<Ursinha> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting.  For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<Ursinha> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is Ursinha.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<Ursinha> hi MootBot
<Ursinha> me
<herb> me
<bac> me
<intellectronica> me
<gary_poster> me
<Ursinha> rockstar, ping
<cprov> me
<Ursinha> henninge is mia
<rockstar> me (barely)
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> well, no issues for translations, so no much of a problem
<Ursinha> alright
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Agenda
<Ursinha>  * Actions from last meeting
<Ursinha>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs-
<Ursinha>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<Ursinha>  * DBA report (DBA contact)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<Ursinha>  1) matsubara to remove the next meeting from the agenda and add a note to the MeetingAgenda page that it should be added again when we need to change the time
<Ursinha>  2) TL (sinzui, flacoste, bigjools) to send people to cover for them due the TL meeting next week (26th to 30th Jan)
<Ursinha>  3) matsubara to file bugs for OOPS-1116EC265 (bug 320293), OOPS-1113EB6 (bug 276144)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320293 in launchpad-bazaar "OOPS traversing to branch on person page" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320293
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276144 in launchpad-bazaar "OOPS when trying to delete stacked-on branches." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276144
<Ursinha> 1 - I did that. From now on to discuss meeting time changes just add it to the list of meeting topics, on MeetingAgenda page
<Ursinha> 2 - okay as well
<Ursinha> next!
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<Ursinha> three oopses and one bug
<Ursinha> the oopses
<Ursinha> MissingMergeDirective: OOPS-1125CEMAIL1
<Ursinha> this is yours rockstar?
 * Ursinha kicks ubottu 
<rockstar> Ursinha, I can look at it
<Ursinha> rockstar, thanks
<Ursinha> bac, to registry: OOPS-1125A165, OOPS-1125A1096 - this second one is the same in the email sinzui sent to barry
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1125A165
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1125A1096
<henninge> me!
<Ursinha> hi henninge!
<henninge> Ursinha: hi! :)
<bac> Ursinha: barry is working on the second one
<henninge> sorry for the delay ...
<Ursinha> bac, do you know if there's an open bug for that?
<Ursinha> intellectronica, bug 279561, that's affecting people more frequently lately
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279561 in malone "No url for <Message at ...> when trying to access bug messages through the API" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279561
 * intellectronica shoegazing
<bac> Ursinha: i don't.  i'll check with barry when he returns from afk
<intellectronica> sorry, it's still a mystery
<intellectronica> i'll go back to working on it now
<Ursinha> intellectronica, do you have time to deal with that? it's causing a lot of oopses and annoying people
<Ursinha> bac, thanks
<intellectronica> Ursinha: i do now
<Ursinha> [action] bac to check with barry if there's an open bug for  OOPS-1125A1096, if not, Ursinha to file one
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1125A1096
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bac to check with barry if there's an open bug for  OOPS-1125A1096, if not, Ursinha to file one
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1125A1096
<Ursinha> bac, about the other one, do you have any clues?
<Ursinha> intellectronica, thanks
<Ursinha> [action] intellectronica to work on bug 279561
<MootBot> ACTION received:  intellectronica to work on bug 279561
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279561 in malone "No url for <Message at ...> when trying to access bug messages through the API" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279561
<Ursinha> [action] rockstar to check OOPS-1125CEMAIL1
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rockstar to check OOPS-1125CEMAIL1
<Ursinha> any other issues you may want to point?
<bac> Ursinha: no clue ATM.  will check it out
<Ursinha> thanks bac
<Ursinha> I appreciate that
<Ursinha> [action] bac to take a look at OOPS-1125A165
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bac to take a look at OOPS-1125A165
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1125A165
<Ursinha> well, moving on
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1125A165
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<herb> * 2008-01-28 - Yesterday - We rolled out 2.2.1. Total downtime was approximately 35 minutes.
<herb> * Even after the rollout, we continue to have problems as a result of bug #156453 and bug #118625. I cannont emphasize enough how much of a pain point this is becoming for the LOSAs. More than a quarter of the incidents that we've had to deal with in the last year have been related to these two bugs.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156453 in loggerhead "production loggerhead branch leaks memory" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 118625 in launchpad-bazaar "codebrowse sometimes hangs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118625
<herb> * We had a couple of incidents in the last week relating to bug #260171.
<ubottu> Bug 260171 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/260171 is private
<herb> * Do we expect to roll out any additional patches this week? If so, when?
<Ursinha> herb, I think at least one, I'll talk to kiko and confirm that to you
<herb> ok
<herb> Ursinha: do you suspect it will be rolled out today or tomorrow?
<henninge> Ursinha: He approved one of mine, too.
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to check with kiko if any other rollouts will happen this week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ursinha to check with kiko if any other rollouts will happen this week
<herb> I can wait, I was just curious if you have a best guess.
<Ursinha> herb, guess tomorrow, but it depends on if we're having more issues to be fixed
<herb> ok
<herb> thanks
<Ursinha> henninge, cool
<Ursinha> thanks herb
<Ursinha> I took note of the "pain to the LOSAs" about that two bugs
<herb> Ursinha: thanks. much appreciated
<Ursinha> well, next
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * DBA report (DBA contact)
<Ursinha> stub sent one email about it:
<Ursinha> Looks like the upgrade went smoothly and nothing exciting is happening. Yay.
<Ursinha> Although neither db server is particularly heavily loaded on average, we do see spikes sometimes. Also, the slave is still more loaded than production. As I don't expect us to get a second slave in the near future, I'm thinking we need to look into some better load balancing to move some of the slave load back to the master.
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (DBA contact)
<Ursinha> Config changes on one or two of the appserver instances to use the master as the slave would work in the short term. Long term I think we could be better with a load balancer like pgbouncer or pgpool (1 or 2).
<Ursinha> that's all from stub
<Ursinha> anything else?
<Ursinha> anybody wants to point or discuss something?
<Ursinha> 5
<Ursinha> 4
<Ursinha> 3
<Ursinha> 2
<Ursinha> 1
<Ursinha> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
<Ursinha> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:17.
<Ursinha> the fastest eva
<gary_poster> Thanks Ursinha :-)
<Ursinha> thank you all
<Ursinha> gary_poster, :)
<cprov> Ursinha: thanks!
#launchpad-meeting 2010-02-01
<rockstar> Hello
#launchpad-meeting 2010-02-03
<gmb> me
 * gmb jumps the gun
#launchpad-meeting 2010-02-04
<matsubara> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is matsubara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<matsubara> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<matsubara> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
<Ursinha> me!
<allenap> me
<henninge> me
<al-maisan> me
<matsubara> Chex, rockstar: hi
<matsubara> bac, can you stand in for sinzui?
<Chex> matsubara: hello
<bac> matsubara:  gladly
<bac> me
<Ursinha> :)
<matsubara> thanks bac
<jtv> me
<Ursinha> oh, a special guest :P
<matsubara> I'm standing in for gary
<matsubara> hi jtv
<jtv> hi
<matsubara> we have 3/4 of the translations team around
<matsubara> pretty cool
<jtv> with all the oopses going on, we thought we'd look in just in case
 * Ursinha hi-fives henninge and jtv 
 * jtv hi-fives back
<matsubara> ok, let's get this started
<Ursinha> yay
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
 * henninge ducks
<matsubara>  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<matsubara>  * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<matsubara>  * DBA report (stub)
<matsubara>  * Proposed items
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara> * add brian to the list of attendees in the MeetingAgenda page
<matsubara>     * done
<matsubara> * allenap to dig the master bug of OOPS-1474EA771
<matsubara>     * done. it's #508302
<matsubara> * rockstar to take a look in OOPS-1480CMP1
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1474EA771
<matsubara> * matsubara to email Tim about https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1488EA174
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1480CMP1
<matsubara> * matsubara to talk to leonard about https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1488EA884
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1488EA174
<matsubara> * matsubara to talk to salgado about More non-informational disconnectionerrors https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1489J147
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1488EA884
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1489J147
<matsubara> * matsubara to talk to stub or gary about InternalError after ther rollout https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1489C1094
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1489C1094
<matsubara>     * https://launchpad.net/bugs/514267
<Ursinha> oh dear
<matsubara> * matsubara to fix bug link on OOPS-1474EA771 to point to bug 508302
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 514267 in launchpad-foundations "InternalError on clusters under busy load" [Critical,Triaged]
<matsubara>     * done
<matsubara> * sinzui to investigate failure on send-person-notifications and reply to the list with his findings
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 508302 in malone "NotImplementedError OOPS when reporting a bug" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/508302
<matsubara>     * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/514149
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1474EA771
<matsubara> * rockstar to raise the importance of ensuring sufficient monitoring of this part (i.e. branch updates emails failing to be delivered) of code-hosting by thumper
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 514149 in launchpad-registry "send-person-notifications.py is broken" [High,Fix released]
<matsubara> * Gary talk about "too many different kinds of moving parts" in our architecture. If we have fewer moving parts then we can institute more uniform nagios-like-checks.
<matsubara> * matsubara to update oops-tools to know about the new lp appserver
<matsubara>     * done.
<matsubara> hmm ok, rockstar is not around
<matsubara> I haven't talked to leonard nor emailed team about those oopses
<matsubara> [action] * matsubara to email Tim about https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1488EA174 and * matsubara to talk to leonard about https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1488EA884
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1488EA174
<MootBot> ACTION received:  * matsubara to email Tim about https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1488EA174 and * matsubara to talk to leonard about https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1488EA884
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1488EA884
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1488EA174
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1488EA884
<matsubara> [action] * rockstar to take a look in OOPS-1480CMP1
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1480CMP1
<MootBot> ACTION received:  * rockstar to take a look in OOPS-1480CMP1
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1480CMP1
<matsubara> I guess that's it
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<Ursinha> okay, so
<Ursinha> the alarming bug is bug 514267
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 514267 in launchpad-foundations "InternalError on clusters under busy load" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/514267
<Ursinha> apparently it's the reason of about 6k InternalError oopses only today in lpnet
<matsubara> stub is on it, discussion ongoing in the internal channel
<Ursinha> matsubara: okay, notes in that bug are welcome :)
<Ursinha> matsubara: thanks
<matsubara> feel free to add them Ursinha
<Ursinha> matsubara: I don't know what's being discussed :)
<Ursinha> anyway, I guess this is most critical thing
<Ursinha> we have six critical bugs, two in progress
<matsubara> no other oopses worth mentioning?
<Ursinha> matsubara: not that already have bugs/are being worked on, afaik
<matsubara> ok
<Ursinha> matsubara: bug 511567 is triaged and marked to 10.01
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 511567 in launchpad-foundations "Can't remove authorised oauth tokens" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511567
<Ursinha> is that really critical?
<matsubara> 10.01 should be closed by now, so I guess it should be 10.02
<Ursinha> matsubara: right, but is that really critical?
<matsubara> don't know I asked in the bug report to Curtis who set it as critical
<Ursinha> bug 514461 is code, in progress, have to check with rockstar how's that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 514461 in launchpad-code "scan_branches.py screams and no one is listening" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/514461
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to talk to rockstar about bug 514461
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to talk to mwhudson about bug 513412
<ubottu> Bug 513412 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/513412 is private
<Ursinha> and, finally, bug 515473 is assigned to curtis and in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 515473 in soyuz "ppa description contains smal links" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/515473
<Ursinha> bac: do you know the progress on that one?
<bac> i do not
<Ursinha> bac: can you ask him, if possible, please? :)
<bac> looking into it
<Ursinha> bac: thanks
<Ursinha> bug 508025 is only waiting for a test commit so it can be closed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 508025 in lpbuildbot "Need production-devel builder" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/508025
<Ursinha> end of critical bugs
<Ursinha> now for something completely different
<Ursinha> script process-pending-packagediffs has been failing lately, is that soyuz? al-maisan?
<al-maisan> al-maisan: I have a branch that fixes these failure
<al-maisan> it has been reviewed and I am revising it in accordance with the review comments
<Ursinha> that's great al-maisan, I'll reply in the failure mail
<Ursinha> al-maisan: thanks for the info
<Ursinha> matsubara: you can move on
<al-maisan> you are welcome
<matsubara> thanks Ursinha
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<rockstar> me
<Ursinha> rockstar: good morning :)
<Chex> hi everyone
<rockstar> Ursinha, :)
<Chex> here is the LOSA report for this week:
<Chex> - LP Outage Today @1400UTC: LP is back running again after a outage; there was an issue with the new
<Chex>         DB replication lag check not working properly. We are working to see why this happened and
<Chex>         resolve.
<Chex> - LP incidents of note:
<Chex>         ; LP Cherry-picks: rolled out 8940 to Lpnet on 29-Jan
<Chex> Does anyone have any comments or questions?
<matsubara> thanks Chex
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (stub)
<matsubara> I'll ask stub to send the report to the list
<matsubara> [action] matsubara to ask stub to send the dba report to the list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to ask stub to send the dba report to the list
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Proposed items
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Proposed items
<matsubara> no proposed items
<matsubara> ok, since we have some time
<matsubara> * rockstar to take a look in OOPS-1480CMP1
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1480CMP1
<matsubara> rockstar, that one is in the actions from last meeting topic for quite some week now
<matsubara> did you have time to look into that?
<rockstar> matsubara, I'll take a look.
<Ursinha> thanks rockstar
<matsubara> rockstar, I thought you were looking and would report back here...
<matsubara> shall I close the meeting then?
<rockstar> matsubara, that's the first I've seen that oops.  I'm not sure how I missed it from other meetings.
<matsubara> by missing the meeting? :-)
<matsubara> rockstar, anyway, thanks for looking into that. if it helps I'll file a place holder bug and you can fill in the details once you know more about it
<matsubara> thanks everyone
<rockstar> matsubara, sure.
<Ursinha> thanks matsubara
<matsubara> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See https://dev.launchpad.net/MeetingAgenda for the logs.
<matsubara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:30.
<bac> Ursinha:  sinzui reports bug 515473 has been reviewed and will be on ec2 for landing shortly
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 515473 in soyuz "ppa description contains spam links" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/515473
<Ursinha> thanks a lot bac
<Ursinha> bac: do you know which branch fixes that bug? it's not linked
 * bac looks
<matsubara> rockstar, filed https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/517126
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 517126 in launchpad-code "BzrCheckError raised creating a merge proposal" [Undecided,New]
<bac> i have linked it to the bug now, ursinha
<Ursinha> thaaanks bac :)
<Ursinha> rockstar: are you working on bug 514461?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 514461 in launchpad-code "scan_branches.py screams and no one is listening" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/514461
<rockstar> Ursinha, yes, I have been trying to get it landed for a week.  If it got into production-stable, then I'm going to have it CP'd today.
<Ursinha> rockstar: cool! can you tell the world about it in the bug by adding a comment? :)
<rockstar> Ursinha, sure.
<Ursinha> rockstar: thanks
#launchpad-meeting 2010-02-05
<mrevell> noodles775, ping
<noodles775> Hi mrevell
<mrevell> oh, noodles775, sorry, wrong channel
<noodles775> Secret meeting time? ;)
<mrevell> :)
