#ubuntu-mobile 2008-03-31
<dholbach> good morning
<fetter_oml> huhu :)
<dns53> hey
<fetter_oml> i have a question:
<fetter_oml> im going to buy the kohjinsha sa5,
<fetter_oml> which has an AMD geode LX800 prozessor.
<fetter_oml> but im reading everywhere that intel is supporting ubu-mobile and i dont know if there is also a support for amd-prozessors.
<fetter_oml> -and +so
<fetter_oml> (pls excuse my bad/worse english, my native language is german)
<dns53> no idea, i am not a developer, i believe the targets are i386 compatible but i do not know
<fetter_oml> ok
<fetter_oml> geode is a ordinar x86 i think
<dns53> there is no reason why you cannot run it on any computer, can you run a normal ubuntu on it?
<fetter_oml> i think so
<fetter_oml> i dont know exactly but i exspect
<dns53> well from what i can see ubuntu mobile is a port of the moblin desktop and related applications to a i386 compatible machine
<dns53> i can't get the image-creator to work at the moment with hardy, i want it to run on my eeepc
 * fetter_oml was thinking about getting the eee too
<fetter_oml> but in germany everyone wants one, and nobody gets one :(
<dns53> well in Australia we tend to be the last people to get anything, we cannot get the n810 yet here and have only got the n800
<fetter_oml> :/
<fetter_oml> in switzerland there is still none :/
<fetter_oml> possible because of the switzer keyboards, but ...
<Hobbsee> dns53: import?
 * fetter_oml has to import the kohjinsha too
<fetter_oml> but i have no idea how :?
<fetter_oml> i even dont know how to pay in us-$
<Hobbsee> credit cards do the conversion automatically
<fetter_oml> really?
<fetter_oml> but i dont have one ...
<fetter_oml> im thinking about a paypal account,
<Hobbsee> ours do.  direct debit cards also should
<fetter_oml> but in ct (some very good computer-magazine here) there stands nothing nice about them :/
<fetter_oml> (@ paypal)
<amin_inb> i want to connect my mobile (k800i) to internet from usb cabel
<amin_inb> i have adsl 
<amin_inb> is it possible to use my adsl on my phone ?
<GrueMaster> It may be possible, but I think that's outside of the scope of this group.  Please see the FAQ at the top of this room.
<bspencer>  ToddBrandt:  is the best way for an application to know that the screen size changed to listen to a gconf key?  Or is there a better mechanism, such as registering with a system deamon. ?
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: well xserver tells you that but I don't th9ink it has a callback
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: the best way would probably be the gconf route, since in moblin the only way to change the screen size is via the screen applet
<bspencer> ToddBrandt: how does the app know?
<ToddBrandt> there are XrandR calls to determine the resolution
<bspencer> thx
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: actually, wait, I just did a search and apparantly xrandr does generate screen change evevnts for capture
<bspencer> ok.
<bspencer> ToddBrandt: maybe we should add thta to the list of things to put in a sample app.
<ToddBrandt> http://www.xfree.org/current/Xrandr.3.html
<ToddBrandt> sure
<GrueMaster> while you are on the topic of screen changing, when will that be supported in Moblin/Ubuntu?  My images always respawn if I run xrandr -s 800x600.
<bspencer> GrueMaster: good Q.  It just needs debugging.
<bspencer> We had orientation change almost working...
<GrueMaster> It used to work (back in October).
<bspencer> GrueMaster: probably a small change.  Hildon updating or other graphics issue.  I haven't tried anything but rotating on a Q1.  
<GrueMaster> actually, nevermind.  The test moblin image I got on Friday seems to work (at least in this regard).  :)
<GrueMaster> I had gotten this image to test some other issues, and hadn't run my normal smoke test on it.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-01
<Deffy|iMac_> howdy
<Deffy|iMac_> does ubuntu-mobile work well with the eeePC?
<inuka> ping alek_desk 
<alek_desk> inuka: pong
<inuka> alek_desk: do you have access to the build server?
<inuka> alek_desk: libdrm and libva do not seem to building... just give error message debian directory not found
<alek_desk> inuka, no, only JohnV could fix this
<alek_desk> inuka, I guess you already created GASTON branch 
<alek_desk> HappyCamp
<alek_desk> HappyCamp_ubuntu
<alek_desk> sodarock_home
<alek_desk> sodarock_ubuntu
<inuka> alek_desk: yeah e-mailed JohnV and rusty. This happend once before when I first created the psb-kmd GASTON branch. JohnV did something to fix it...
<andy_lin> nls
<andy_lin> sorry .
<woodwizzle> Are there any available ubuntu mobile devices out yet?
<dholbach> good morning
<cgregan> lool: in reference to xephyr not being able to connect to ports. Does the chroot use a resolve.conf within the chroot?
<StevenK> cgregan: It may well
<cgregan> StevenK: Yep.....the resolve was set to a static domain and dns.
<StevenK> cgregan: Ahhh, probably from what it was built on.
<StevenK> cgregan: In which case, I'd suggest that merits a bug on MIC
<cgregan> stevenK: ok....the full runs no problem, but the crownbeach target cannot start x
<StevenK> Interesting
<lool> cgregan: Yes
<lool> cgregan: Networking is something you have to configure when creating a chroot; it's not bringing up and down interfaces but telling your system about hosts and DNS servers
<StevenK> lool: MIC copies the /etc/resolv.conf from the host
<cgregan> StevenK: This appears to be true. When creating on this machine there was not a problem, but importing uses the resolve the image was created on.
<lool> StevenK: Yeah, but it wont work when moving the chroot around, if your DNS changes, etc.
<StevenK> lool: Exactly. It also means information about the build environment is leaked.
<lool> Yeah, I mentionned this a long while ago about the hosts
<StevenK> hosts I fixed
<StevenK> /etc/resolv.conf is harder
<cgregan> StevenK: Here is the message spit out when the xserver fails in the crownbeach target:
<cgregan> Fatal server error:
<cgregan> could not open default font 'fixed'
<cgregan> waiting for X server to begin accepting connections 
<cgregan> giving up.
<cgregan> xinit:  Connection reset by peer (errno 104):  unable to connect to X server
<cgregan> xinit:  No such process (errno 3):  Server error.
<StevenK> Errr
 * davidm is back (gone 86:17:19)
<lool> cgregan: You seem to be missing fonts
<lool> cgregan: xfonts-base would provide the fixed font
<cgregan> lool: I'll try to apt-get it
<StevenK> It should be installed
<cgregan> StevenK: It was not. utils and encoding were also brought down
<StevenK> Interesting
<cgregan> StevenK: the crownbeach target looks to be corrupted or incomplete.
<lool> cgregan: What image is this?
<cgregan> StevenK: yesterday daily build of Menlow
<StevenK> full or core?
<StevenK> According to the 20080401 menlow-full logs, xfonts-base was installed
<lool> Will do a short test
<lool> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:53. The chair is lool.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:53.
<Deffy|iMac_> hi
<inuka_desk> ping amitk_ 
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-02
<Mr_Deffy> Hi
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> lool: hmm...I don't see wine enabled in p-a-s for lpia (http://cvs.debian.org/srcdep/Packages-arch-specific?rev=1.743&root=dak&view=markup) :)
<lool> \sh: Yes, it's not, that's what we're discussing
<lool> You wrote "I need to bribe lamont to add lpia arch to p-a-s?", but lpia is already in use in this file
<lool> Concerning adding wine for lpia, I asked Lamont implicitely by Cc:ing him, but feel free to ping him again
<\sh> lool: I meant to add to entry "%wine: i386 amd64" the lpia arch string :)
<\sh> lool: for us it's just adding some lpia specific arch identifiers to debian/control to let it build on our lpia buildds...so when lamont adds it this week, I can upload a new revision of wine to build it on lpia too 
<lool> \sh: Ok, cool
<mjg59> lool: Around?
<agoliveira> mjg59: Loic went to a doctor but he should return about 9pm UTC+2
<mjg59> agoliveira: Ah, ok. No problem.
<patm> Mega_Lin, ping
<Mega_Lin> patm: got it
<bspencer> lool, ping
<lool> bspencer: pong
<lool> bspencer: I'll be driving home, will be back in 45 mn
<bspencer> lool,  no prob.
<lool> bspencer: If you see rustyl, you can tell him about it too :)
<bspencer> I'll update the hildon-theme-mobile-basic tarball today.  fyi.
<lool> I'd like to chat to both of you tonight if possible
<bspencer> (that's all)
<lool> bspencer: Oh perfect thanks
<bspencer> I didn't know the process was manual :P
<lool> Perhaps it shouldn't be ;)
 * lool &
<bspencer> is & you crossing your fingers?
<lool> bspencer: It means I'm backgrounding myself ;)
<mjg59> lool: Got a minute?
<lool> mjg59: Sure
<lool> mjg59: Sorry, didn't notice the ping fast enough; let me know if you want me to give you a phone call or something
<mjg59> lool: I've been chatting to Chris - for qemu, we could do with images that use cirrus as the default X driver
<lool> mjg59: Sure, why cirrus instead of vmware?
<lool> Oh wait, qemu, nm
<lool> I thought Chris was running vmware
<lool> mjg59: On my side, I worked on ubuntu-vm-builder porting to lpia, but it requires rebasing on a rewritten branch
<lool> And it wasn't capable of bootstrapping 32-bits vms under amd64, but I guess I could implement this as well
<mjg59> lool: Yeah, I was confused by that. But they're looking at qemu right now.
<mjg59> lool: As far as I can tell, it should just be making sure the package is there and then including something other than ume-config-samsung-q1
<lool> Yup
<rje4242> question: I see a maemo branch - does this mean that Ubuntu mobile works on the n800 now?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-03
<GrueMaster> davidm: ping
<StevenK> GrueMaster: There's no point pinging him, he disconnected 5 minutes ago
<GrueMaster> Yea, I just noticed that.
<GrueMaster> davidm :  question re: beta3
<davidm> GrueMaster, yes?
<bspencer> lool,  when is our meeting supposed to be wrt moblin applets?
<GrueMaster> video drivers are at build 0007.  Didn't you guys get newer drivers?
<davidm> Not in time for the beta, we locked better then a week ago
<GrueMaster> Oh.
<GrueMaster> I just got the beta today.
<GrueMaster> Didn't know it was a week old.
<GrueMaster> ok
<davidm> We locked the build for the WiMAX stuff but finally built because WiMAX did not make it.  
<davidm> WiMAX was a pain, but they got it finally and now we have to remove it....
<dholbach> good morning
<lool> Hmm yesterday, the battery applet would segfault for me when I clicked on it, but now it wont at full charge
<kennyyu> hi there, i wonder if i can get the firefox source code (for UME) because of my academic research purpose? is it available now?
<dns53>  apt-get source packagename?
<kennyyu> dns53: thanks... hmm, I just wonder why I cannot download the code from there --> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-browser   :-(
<dns53> the package is actually midbrowser https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-browser for the launcpad entry, git seems to be http://www.moblin.org/repos/projects/mobile-browser.git/ 
<Roj> hi
<dns53> hi
<Roj> i have a Asus r2h and want to get involved with the ubuntu mobile testing
<Roj> have i found the right community?
<dns53> well this channel is quiet, i'm here trying to get it installed on my eeepc
<Roj> ah ok, have you tried gOS rocket?
<Roj> or Linpus?
<dns53> not yet,i have a xubuntu with hardy
<Roj> both kind of work but the ubuntu mobile release looks interesting to me
<kennyyu> dns53: i see. I'll have a look! :)
<lool> meeting is in one hour right?
<Don_Johnson> I think David left it on UTS, and did not do any daylight saving time adjustments, so you are probably right
<kyleN> lool, that's my guess
<lool> Don_Johnson: That's my understanding as well; I added an item to move it one hour earlier to the agenda
<Don_Johnson> Good, I have a regulary conflict in 1 hour, so I won't be able to make it at that time.
<bspencer> lool, dumb Q.  Our weekly ume meeting is at 10amPDT now -- not 9am right?  :)
<bspencer> lool, also, are we meeting tomorrow IRC 9am PDT?
<davidm> I've had the meeting pegged to 17:00 UTC and not floating.  We can adjust the meeting to 16:00 UTC in this meeting.
<bspencer> lool, or I think I was to get a bridge.
<bspencer> davidm, right.  Old habit I was rushing to get here by 9am.
<davidm> Well there is a aganda item to move it to now so we can talk about it.  It hits at a bad time for those in Europe now.
<davidm> And I love google since it moved the meeting to now for me :-/ but I'm fixing that.
<lool> bspencer: You were to get a bridge for friday, right?
<davidm> Almost time for the meeting.
<mawhalen> Rusty
<mawhalen> feeling better?
<davidm> We are missing mootbot so I'll just post logs later
<davidm> it's off line at the moment.  So lets bring the meeting to order
<lool> Pff Mootbot is not very reliable
<rustyl_> mawhalen, not really
<lool> rustyl_: Ah you were sick as well
<mawhalen> FYI - John (happycamp) is out of the office today
<rustyl_> lool, yea, this sucks
<davidm> First action from 27 March then
<davidm> #startmeeting
<davidm> #startmeeting
<davidm> I think mootbot will join us soon
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:02. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<MootBot> davidm, There is already a meeting in progress.
<davidm> OK mootbot is here so 
* davidm changed the topic of #ubuntu-mobile to: kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME
<davidm> #topic kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME
<kyleN> I have not investigated hildon-help yet. Yes, it needs to be done, but with current daily priorities it won't be done immediately. Therefore, I'd like to remove it from the carried action items for now.   
<lool> davidm: #topic, not /topic :)
<davidm> lool, yea I blew it
<davidm> kyleN, OK done.
<kyleN> thx
<mabbas> #topic
<davidm> #topic lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week
<lool> So, smagoun is the only one around I fear
<smagoun> lool: no progress on this one
<lool> agoliveira tried updating sapwood, but he didn't manage to pull history
<smagoun> I don't think bfiller has had a chance to get to his part either
* davidm changed the topic of #ubuntu-mobile to: This channel is for conversations around the Ubuntu UME development version
<lool> I think I'll start picking updates from other people to get stuff in hardy in the coming weeks
<lool> I wish people with assigned updates could do one to see how it goes with bzr vcs-import and all
<lool> So davidm, please carry on
<davidm> [topic] lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week 
<davidm> lool, will do, 
<davidm> I just replayed the topic to get it into mootbot
<davidm> [topic] lool to document tips for Hildon 2.0 updates on Hildon 2.0 wiki page
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to document tips for Hildon 2.0 updates on Hildon 2.0 wiki page 
<lool> See bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Hildon2.0
<lool> It's a bit raw, but it's what I did :)
<lool> I'm happy to clarify with anybody who needs help
<davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Hildon2.0
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Hildon2.0 
<davidm> lool, carry on?
<lool> No, it's done; you can move on to next topic
<davidm> [topic] lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch 
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch  
<lool> I've wikified my notes and sent them to rustyl_; as they were longer than I thought, I think it's best to get some feedback from rustyl_ and then moving to the wiki
<lool> rustyl_ only got them yesterday though, so I suppose we could make that an action for me for next week
<davidm> OK
<lool> This is just a one shot procedure, not very interesting to keep on the wiki forever, but we'll remove the page later on
<davidm> [action] lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted] [cted scheduled for Friday the 28th][cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted] [cted scheduled for Friday the 28th][cted] 
<lool> [action] (lool) add doc on moving to tarball releases for moblin modules to wiki
<lool> Hmm ok
<davidm> [action] (lool) add doc on moving to tarball releases for moblin modules to wiki
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (lool) add doc on moving to tarball releases for moblin modules to wiki 
<lool> Well the doc is ready, but I'll move it to the wiki next week
<lool> right
<davidm> I'll clean later NP
<lool> thanks
<lool> You can skip the next topic, it's the same
<davidm> agree
<davidm> next two actually
<davidm> [topic] bspencer to list i18n status for Moblin project 
<MootBot> New Topic:  bspencer to list i18n status for Moblin project  
<lool> davidm: Well i'd like to keep the action on rustyl_, even if he had no chance to do it this week :)
<lool> rustyl_: (if you don't mind)
<davidm> I'll make it so
<lool> bspencer: 19:13 < davidm> [topic] bspencer to list i18n status for Moblin project 
<lool> bspencer: You come just on time :)
<davidm> [action] #
<davidm> rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week and the week before that...][cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  # 
<bspencer> lool: oy, not completed
<davidm> [action] rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week and the week before that...][cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week and the week before that...][cted] 
<bspencer> lool: I can list what I know here, but I think you wanted an email
<kyleN> here comes my standard remard: ;) we need all apps i8nized, and soonish
<kyleN> remark
<mawhalen> bspencer: what is holding it up?
<bspencer> ToddBrandt: is moblin-applets i18n?
<bspencer> mawhalen: nothing -- I just forgot to send the email
<lool> bspencer: I think kyleN asked for it
<kyleN> the packages should be set up for intltool so they generated tempaltes
<kyleN> and the code should be set up for gettext
<kyleN> darn fingers, misbehaving again ;)
<bspencer> kyleN: lool   is Hildon already for i18n per these requireemnts?
<lool> bspencer: Hmm Hildon is special
<bspencer> moblin media is, I know, except for a couple of bugs that may already have been fixed
<kyleN> bspencer: hildon is not. it is a more complex challenege. but this problem is known and being solved
<bspencer> lool:  is Firefox special too?
<lool> bspencer: Yes
<bspencer> mid browser is also i18n, per Firefox mechanism.
<lool> bspencer: But moblin-applets is a good standard example
<bspencer> I don't know about moblin-applets.
<lool> I reviewed it, and it seemed structured to do it
<lool> Can't tell whether all strings were marked as translatable or not
<bspencer> Home screen is the one I'm not sure about
<bspencer> The icons and names come from freedesktop.org calls now, but I haven't verified the i18n-ness
<kyleN> bspencer: can you please address the problem on both fronts: intltool AND code/gettext
<lool> bspencer: But you're not using message ids for strings in any other package than midbrowser at moblin.org, so it would be nice if you could make sure all other moblin.org projects are i18ned
<lool> Run them in French
<bspencer> lool: yes.  My action item.
<lool> kyleN, bspencer, davidm: do let's carry on action
<davidm> OK
<kyleN> ok
<lool> [action] bspencer to report on i18n of moblin.org modules [cted]
<davidm> [action] bspencer to report on i18n of moblin.org modules [cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to report on i18n of moblin.org modules [cted] 
<davidm> OK that is the end of old business
<davidm> Current items
<kyleN> although I wish the wording wasn't "report" but was "implement intltool in packages and gettext in code"
<bspencer> kyleN: did you document this somewhere?
<lool> kyleN: Well I think it's clear that they need to be i18ned, but we wont implement it during the meeting so we can only report on status ;)
 * bspencer recalls seeing something
<lool> bspencer: Two wiki pages are available on the topic
<lool> bspencer: As mentionned in last week's links
<bspencer> ok.  you can move on while I look.
<lool> http://people.ubuntu.com/~davidm/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20080327_1801.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~davidm/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20080327_1801.html 
<bspencer> lool: thx.
<lool> See the last two links
<davidm> [topic] (lool) propose to move meeting one hour earlier (it's summer \o/) 
<MootBot> New Topic:  (lool) propose to move meeting one hour earlier (it's summer \o/)  
<lool> So I'd like to move the meeting by one hour
<lool> I think this will fit everybody
<davidm> This works for me.
<bspencer> good for me
<lool> In fact most people were expecting the meeting earlier ;)
<cgregan> no conflict for me
<davidm> I know Don Johnson would like this as he can't attend now.
<lool> Let's do it!
<davidm> Intel side comments?
<mawhalen> I don't believe this is a problem, we used to have it an hour earlier
<mawhalen> I'll reschedule it for Intel side
<davidm> bspencer, mawhalen , thanks
<davidm> [action] davidm to move meeting to 1 hour earler and notify all 
<GrueMaster> For the most part, the people at Intel have adjusted to daylight savings time, so this would realign with that schedule.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm to move meeting to 1 hour earler and notify all  
<davidm> [action] mawhalen to reschedule on Intel side 
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mawhalen to reschedule on Intel side  
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: sorry for the delay, yes moblin-applets is i18n
<davidm> OK I think we are covered on that
<davidm> [topic] (tonyespy) ppm: git tree out-of-date + write access; licensing question... 
<MootBot> New Topic:  (tonyespy) ppm: git tree out-of-date + write access; licensing question...  
<tonyespy> OK
<tonyespy> There's been some recent interest in the ppm by our customer
<tonyespy> and yet, the public git tree is not up-to-date
<tonyespy> also, as there's been a request that canonical do some of the work...
<lool> tonyespy: (you used rsync?)
<tonyespy> i'd like to ask that we be granted write access to the tree
<lool> tonyespy: (some git trees at moblin.org are broken / out of date via http)
<tonyespy> lool:  i'll check
<mawhalen> mabbas: are you around?
<tonyespy> lool: i've been looking at the tree via the git web interface
<mawhalen> he was
<tonyespy> i've spoken with mabbas about this and he said that he'd update it this week...
<lool> I guess the gitweb is always up to date
<tonyespy> but i'd like to see this be a regular activity... not a once and a while thing
<tonyespy> ...especially if we're going to be contributing to the development
<mawhalen> Mohamed had joined last week and at the begin of this meeting - 
<mawhalen> tonyespy: hae you sync'd with Mohamed, I know he was going to contact you about a script
<mabbas> yes I am here
<tonyespy> mawhalen: yes, we've been exchanging emails
<tonyespy> mabbas: i brought up the topic that i'd like to see the public git tree for ppm be kept up to date
<tonyespy> mabbas: and we would also like write access
<mabbas> yes I will update by tomorrow
<tonyespy> mabbas: especially if we're going to be contributing work
<rustyl_> tonyespy, do you already have an account on moblin?
<tonyespy> mabbas: after that, can you make sure it's kept up to date on a regular basis
<tonyespy> rustyl_: not sure, but i'll check...
<mabbas> yes it usually is
<tonyespy> mabbas: the last tag was 0.7, the version in the ppa is 0.9
<lool> rustyl_: Don't think so
<rustyl_> tonyespy, lool, i don't see any type of *tony* or *eps*
<rustyl_> in /home on moblin
<tonyespy> rustyl_:  ok, i'll create one this afternoon
<rustyl_> mabbas, do have an issue with adding another developer with write access?
<mabbas> ok the gap here is small and maily to kick hardy build but I will make sure they are always update
<mabbas> not at all
<tonyespy> ok, i will create an account and then send details to mabbas
<mabbas> as long we discuss thing before commit and this will go both way of cource
<rustyl_> mawhalen, is HappyCamp_ubuntu HappyCamp on vacation still?
<mawhalen> rustyl_: yes - happycamp is on vacation this week.
<davidm> Are there any actions I need to track to next week here?
<tonyespy> davidm: no
<tonyespy> one more piece to the topic...
<davidm> tonyespy, OK good enough
<tonyespy> which may apply to more than just ppm
<davidm> tonyespy, you have the floor
<tonyespy> from my pov, ppm is in a way a replacement for gnome-power-manager ( ie. it does many of the same things )
<tonyespy> yet it's licensed under a dual-license ( mit & gpl )
<tonyespy> this prevents code from being pulled from pure gpl projects like gnome-power-mgr
<tonyespy> was this intentional?
<rustyl_> no, not intentional
<tonyespy> can it be fixed?
 * rustyl_ thinks
<lool> Is it important if we lose the MIT part of the license?
<tonyespy> there's suspicion (sic) that this might apply to other moblin projects as well...
<lool> If you merge GPL code, just update the relevant headers in the source files you copy, debian/copyright, and the result of the combination will be GPL
<lool> Just like GPM
<tonyespy> lool: but isn't that confusing if the top-level of the project includes the mit license?
<bspencer> I believe MIT was added to allow for the potential of someone to create a solution with proprietary bits.  But here it is biting us.
<rustyl_> i think tonyespy is correct... you can't add GPL licensed code from some other project into a code base that is dual licensed with MIT
<lool> Well in Debian/Ubuntu packages we very often have to deal with this; it's best if the toplevel licensing file is correctly indicating which files are MIT+GPL and which are only GPL
<rustyl_> if it's a new file, then yea, that's not a problem
<bspencer> lool: can you point us to an example?
<lool> rustyl_: It makes the code base a mixture of dual licensed + single licensed code which is effectively gpl
<rustyl_> the issue is an existing file
<lool> bspencer: Looking for one
<bspencer> tonyespy: do you already know that you are wanting to pull in gnome-power-mgr stuff?
<bspencer> or just guessing you might want to someday
<rustyl_> i.e. the user of PPM would not really have the right to use the specific file as MIT (and throw away the rights enforce from the other codebase)
<lool> bspencer: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/v/vlc/current/copyright
<tonyespy> bspencer: i'm guessing based on my code review
<lool> Example of a very complex copyright file listing in details copyright holders and licenses
<tonyespy> lool: the end result is still gpl though right???
<lool> If each source file says what it's licensed under (MIT+GPL for historic files and GPL for copied files), and the toplevel file summarizes, that's fine
<lool> tonyespy: Yes
<rustyl_> tonyespy, lool, we need to loop this back through our process for getting approval for open sourcing the code to see if we can make the code pure GPL
<lool> tonyespy: Naturally, if you copy GPL over, you make everything GPL
<lool> rustyl_: You don't need to really
<tonyespy> lool: so the question is whether or not that's ok w/intel
<lool> rustyl_: But the question is whether you're happy with this particular module moving from dual licensing to effectively GPL
<tonyespy> lgpl is another way to allow linking of proprietary code...
<lool> You can't make GPL code LGPL
<tonyespy> lool: right, sorry...
<tonyespy> anyways, i wanted to raise the issue...  not decided it here.
<rustyl_> tonyespy, let me narrow this down some... do you have a need to pull in GPL code on existing files, or will this always be new modules?
<tonyespy> rustyl_: right now i don't have a specific piece of code in mind.  i brought this up after doing a design/code review of ppm
<tonyespy> rustyl_: which does *a lot* of what gnome-power-manager already does....
<tonyespy> rustyl_: and there are certain improvements that have been suggested...
<tonyespy> rustyl_: which already exist elsewhere....
<rustyl_> I ask because the current licensing model doesn't really have an issue with new modues.  The issue is if you want to pull in pure GPL into the core infrastructure code
<tonyespy> rustyl_: i'm not sure it works that way...
<tonyespy> rustyl_: the problem's not with the existing code's license...
<tonyespy> rustyl_: it's with the license of the source code
<tonyespy> rustyl_: no pun intended
<tonyespy> rustyl_: should have read 'source of the code'
<robr-desk> tonyespy, can you be specific about what improvements are being requested?
<bspencer> tonyespy: maybe you could send some patches and we can make a decision as we see the need
<rustyl_> well... in order to get permission to change the license I need a clear, rock solid argument or else our process will rip me to pieces.  We should try to articulate / better under stand this in an off-line email
<bspencer> we're open to discuss a hange if it makes sense.
<rustyl_> maybe this can be captured in a bug report?
<tonyespy> bspencer, rustyl_, robr-desk: i've posted an analysis on the private intel/canonical wiki
<bspencer> tonyespy: start with some patches you want, then let's discuss again next week.
<rustyl_> and then let the discussion be documented in the bug?
<tonyespy> i can send a link to y'all via email if you'd like
<davidm> 10 minute warning
<rustyl_> ok, wiki will work
<tonyespy> sure... i've also added a bunch of bugs...
<tonyespy> rustyl_: just search for PPMAnalysis
<lool> on intel.wiki.c.c
<mabbas> by the way I dont have access to this wiki so I need access to read tony comments
<tonyespy> rustyl_: or take a look at the ppm buglist on launchpad
<davidm> mabbas, mawhalen can get you access
<mabbas> thanks
<tonyespy> that's it for me, unless anyone else has comments / questions
<rustyl_> tonyespy, BTW, about creating an account... go ahead and send me your username, email, and ssh public key, and I will create the account and give you write access while John is on vacation
<tonyespy> rustyl_: ok, thanks
<mawhalen> Yes - I can get them access
<davidm> OK
<davidm> I have no further items on the wiki page.
<davidm> any last minute items?
<davidm> OK going once................................
<davidm> OK going twice...............
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:55.
<lool> Thanks
<lool> rustyl_: Do you have a public document on moblin.org licensing guidance?
<lool> Like "this and that layer of this arch must be this license"
* davidm changed the topic of #ubuntu-mobile to: This channel is for conversations around the Ubuntu UME development version | Info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
<rustyl_> lool, no... each project has it's own license
<lool> rustyl_: Ok, and did you particularly care about ppm being 100% MIT+GPL?
<rustyl_> lool, i don't know
<bspencer> lool: ppm is part of another project:  lesswatts
<lool> Ohh right
<bspencer> so we share the licensing decision with them.
<lool> I understand why we were wondering
<lool> Okay, makes sense to me now
<rustyl_> lool, to answer that question I would need to revisit the original arguments for what license to use
<lool> Ok, understood
 * lool moves to confcall &
<bspencer> bfiller, davidm   who is your marketing guy?  John...
<davidm> Jon is
<bspencer> yeah.  last name?
<davidm> Jon Melamut
<bspencer> thx
<davidm> NP
<inuka_desk> ping GrueMaster
<GrueMaster> INUKA_DESK:PONG
<GrueMaster> inuka_desk: Pong
<GrueMaster> caps was on
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster: ok for a moment there I thought you were screaming :) for the CIP stuff... I have come across an issue 
<GrueMaster> Are you referring to the 7am meeting?
<inuka_desk> if I play a certain clip twice helix dubs server freezes, plus there are 6 instance of helix ... .yes 
<inuka_desk> the behavior is consistent for several driver builds of Beta9 so its definitely nothing to do with the build/image
<GrueMaster> Did you see my earlier email?  If you could, try to document what you have and post it to the shared drive.  You should have r/w permissions.
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster: is there anything special I should look at or try to copy over?
<GrueMaster> I'm currently testing the latest helix and the latest PSB on the latest Ubuntu snapshot (Beta3).  As soon as I get them all loaded, I'll run some tests and see if I see the same thing.
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster: ok I will send you  a link to the clip I used.
<GrueMaster> If you have a particular media clip that hangs, put it in the media folder.
<GrueMaster> That will work too.
<GrueMaster> Just use my internal email.  This IM client is on an external network running off my Linux laptop.
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster: ok
<GrueMaster> got it
<crevette> hey
<crevette> is there a way to test the mobile ubuntu on a normal x86 machine ?
<GrueMaster> There are a couple of ways.  One is to make a live-rw-usb image and boot it, the other is to use a virtual machine, like Virtualbox.
<GrueMaster> YOu will need to tweek the /etc/X11/xorg-crownbeach.conf file as it is hardcoded to a specific video chip.
<tonyespy> rustyl_: ping
<rustyl_> tonyespy, yeap
<tonyespy> rustyl_: how do i create an account on moblin?  all i can find is the dev mailing list?
<rustyl_> you can't do it via the web site
<tonyespy> ahhh...
<tonyespy> that explains much
<rustyl_> send me the user name you want, your email to associate with and public ssh key
<tonyespy> ok, will do.  thanks.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-04
 * davidm is away: I'm busy
 * Hobbsee takes finger off the trigger button.  echan.
<dholbach> good morning
<asac> lool: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt ... we need to make mobile-basic-flash use xul 1.9 now
<asac> lool: if you see bob ( i think he is the author, please tell him to talk to me :))
<lool> asac: Ok, I think there was some recent talk that this was more or less unmaintained upstream due to the use of flash
<asac> lool: he?
<lool> People didn't find the .as files and all to be much hackable
<lool> Or buildable or anything
<asac> its not used anymore?
<asac> thought the home screen used it
<asac> anyway, we should fix this either by removing it or by moving to xulrunner-1.9 (which should be simple)
<asac> (or demoting to universe)
<lool> http://www.moblin.org/pipermail/dev/2008-April/thread.html#1638
<lool> I think we can put the effort to move to -1.9
<asac> so it currently FTBFS?
<asac> lool: you create flash using swfmill for instance
<asac> i think ill talk to rustyl_ and bob directly
<lool> asac: I know there are some hacks like swfmill, but it's simply not something opensource minded people are interested to maintain
<asac> lool: so, is it used atm or not?
<lool> asac: ATM, mobile-basic-flash is included
<asac> yeah ok.
 * davidm is back (gone 13:44:35)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-05
<javahorn> how to test an application in device agnostic manner , i mean to test it on firmware so that it can be established that it will run on all the family of mobile phones of one type ,of one vendor ?
<eitreach> Howdy. I'm looking to use Ubuntu Mobile with my asus eee - where can I download the current version?
<Random> how does one specify applets to be loaded at desktop startup?
<eitreach> Random, how did you install and what did you install on?
<Random> i did apt-get install ubuntu-mobile, on a more-or-less normal computer
<Random> which, i realize its not quite supported
<Random> however, im using this stuff for my carputer, which has a touchscreen
<Random> so, the interface is ideal for usage with that
<Random> just all the other hardware is pretty much a normal PC
<eitreach> random I have very limited space on the eee.. Do you recall how big the install was?
<Random> *shrugs* didn't pay attention... i have an 80gb hard drive, so i really haven't paid attention to the space constraints
<eitreach> alright. Thanks anyhow. :) 
<Random> i *think* its one of the options you can select in one of the installers
<Random> i've seen that their goal is <= 500MB
<eitreach> I haven't been able to find an iso yet.. Just img-files, which I wouldn't know how to use, sadly. 
<Random> yeah, thats the maddening part... they're specifically targetting handheld phone devices, and not making it easy to use as just another ubuntu install
<eitreach> with the umpc-market booming, I hope that'll change soon. 
<Random> theres a way discussed on the wiki i believe to install into a chroot environment
<eitreach> hmm.. I could see that out. 
<Random> conceivably you could then tar that up and copy to your eee
<eitreach> I'm just a regular desktop-user, heh.. It sounds amazingly complicated, sadly. 
<Random> yeah, its all still very alpha IMHO
<eitreach> oh well.. s'pose I'll just use 7.10 on it. It works well anyhow.. just curious to see how it would work. It seems nice. 
<Random> screenshot: http://www.virtualroadside.com/blog/index.php/2008/04/05/ubuntu-mobile-screenshot-on-my-carputer/
<eitreach> sigh.. it looks so nice. Would work well on the small screen, I think. 
<Random> yes, sadly its not entirely functional :-p
<eitreach> that's why I changed from the Xandros-distro shipped with the eee. :p 
<eitreach> wrecked my system too many times apt-getting ordinary things. 
<Random> yeah.. of the icons shown on my desktop there... the only ones that actually do anything is the Web Browser, Terminal, Control Panel, and Galculator
<Random> lol
<Random> the other ones silently die
<Random> and i still cant figure out where the hell it decides which icons are displayed on the desktop
<eitreach> bah.. wish there were more funds to fund the funding. 
<eitreach> wonder if Android will be available for installs on umpcs as well.. it could start a pleasant new trend. 
<Random> indeed
<eitreach> not that I don't like regular Ubuntu.. I use it on my main desktop as well - I just like seeing new things. 
<Random> yeah... heres the chroot thing... it probably works in hardy too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
<eitreach> I'll try that out should I randomly hop into a manic state of mind. Thanks. :) 
<ricky_> hi everybody
<ricky_> a little question, anyone knows if this porting is possible on a Motorola a1000 ?
<solo> i have a 7'' touchscreen and am interested in running ubuntu mobile
<solo> where do i stat
<solo> start
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-06
<Ziroday> Hi, I am having some trouble with the Image Creator when I create a Fset
<Ziroday> You can see a pastebin of the error here http://pastebin.com/m18c25ef5
<rx5720> hi everyone...
<dns53> hi
<rx5720> is it possible to port ubuntu mobile or embedded to an ipaq rx5720
<dns53> well that is a different cpu architecture, ubuntu-mobile is for the intel ume platform but there is no reason why you could not port it
<dns53> ubuntu-mibile uses a 386 compatible cpu from what i can see
<rx5720> because i have many problems running opie on haret
<rx5720> it crashes every time
<dns53> well ubuntu-mobile is basically a port of the gnome-moblie/moblin platform which has links to the n800 and neo 1973 so it should be portable
<rx5720> has anyone ever tried to port it to a samsung s3c2442 processor?
<dns53> well i'm not a developer, i don't know
<slytherin> is anyone planning to package latest telepathy-stream-engine (0.5) ?
<krychek> hi, will ubuntu mobile be ported to arm architecture so i can run it on my fujitsu n560 pda? :|
<davmor2> krychek: reading the docs not at the moment.
<krychek> ? youre not reading the docs at the moment?
<davmor2> no
<davmor2> krychek: At the moment the docs say not.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
<krychek> yes ive read that.. i thought someone has same inside info here :)
<lool> No ARM port planned yet
<krychek> too bad :( most pdas have arm
<The_PHP_Jedi> :(
<The_PHP_Jedi> PDAs need a linux distro that's at least semi-actively developed, since Familiar Linux hasn't really been alive for a while, and it doesn't run quite well on most modern PDAs.
<The_PHP_Jedi> an ARM port of UME would be great. :)
<krychek> wont canonical invest some money to make some arm mobile ubuntu?
<krychek> i dont like windows mobile.. :/
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-30
<ethana2> I'm trying to use maximus from Jaunty repos
<ethana2> It's not removing window title bars when they're maximized
<ethana2> I avoided it before for this same reason, but I've changed the way I think about the 2d ui since that time
<ethana2> How do I remove windows' titlebars?
<ethana2> when maximized only I guess
<ethana2> many people have entered the room since I asked my question a couple hours ago, so I restate:
<ethana2> how do I get maximus to do away with windows' title bars when they are maximized?
<ethana2> (or all the time would be fine too)
<untoldone> hi -- i was wondering if anyone had gotten the egalax driver from eeti working on 8.10 mid
<untoldone> the TouchKit app/Draw test works fine -- but it doesnt seem to work on the desktop
<untoldone> ive noticed that both the evtouch and egalax drivers are loaded in the xorg.0.log but i don't any config related to evtouch in xorg.conf
<untoldone> sometimes the pointer jumps rapidly between the correct location and an incorrect location (both locations move as i move my finger across the screen)
<untoldone> i also tried to remove xserver-xorg-input-evtouch from startup -- and xorg still loads the evtouch drivers
<untoldone> can't uninstall xserver-xorg-input-evtouch because ubuntu-mid depends on it
<untoldone> on inspecting with xinput -- both devices exist -- "egalax" has values that seem correct while "EVTouch TouchScreen" seems to not ...
<untoldone> i guess the question here is -- what is causing evtouch to load?  There is nothing in xorg.config that does it.
<ethana2> looks like maximus now takes no command line arguments
<ethana2> blast
<ethana2> an argument to determine whether maximized apps got to keep their title bars would be good.
<ethana2> 'cause I've been frustrated by it both ways now
<untoldone> fixed my problem for those who were wondering -- i had assumed fdi files in /usr/share/hal/fdi were files that were not loaded by hal and had to be copied to /etc/hal/fdi in order to work ... turns out files from /usr/share/hal/fdi are loaded -- the pacakge xserver-xorg-input-evtouch placed a hal config file there for egalax touch screens
<untoldone> removing that file solved my problem
<ethana2> I wonder if I could find an old version of maximus
<ethana2> I should try the Intrepid version
<ethana2> I have found that it behaves like what I want if the session is started after the daemon is launched
<ethana2> ..unfortunately, even with windows' menu bars flush against the top edge of the screen
<ethana2> they don't work with Fitt's law
<ethana2> for some reason windows apps do though, in wine 
<ethana2> notably google earth 5 compiled with winelibs
<ethana2> that top pixel row is very important
<ethana2> must be clickable
<ethana2> http://i44.tinypic.com/s2sh7r.png
 * ethana2 out
<atari> hi
<atari> does UMPC use the normal i386 packages of ubuntu?
<NCommander> atari, yes, but UMPC is only available in Intrepid (its gone in Jaunty)
<atari> ahok
<atari> so i have to use UNR?
<NCommander> atari, are you currently using Intrepid or Jaunty?
<atari> currently i have intrepid (UNR apps installed). but i want to update to jaunty
<atari> i'll do a complete reinstall
 * NCommander is told Jaunty UNR is quite nice
<atari> yeah ;)
<atari> but is it using normal i386 packages?
<atari> i had problems with flashplayer etc... that's why i took a normal ubuntu
<NCommander> Both UMPC and UNR use normal i386 packages
<NCommander> MID uses lpia, but it is possible (with some pain) to get a MID that uses i386
<atari> ah
<atari> i had exactly that lpia problem...
<NCommander> (I fixed ubuntu-mid early in the cycle to work on i386, but the main issue is that our CD build system doesn't generate a ubuntu-mid-i386 image)
<NCommander> hrm
<NCommander> I thought the flashplugin on LPIA issue was resolved
 * NCommander pops open the partner repo
<NCommander> atari, its available for lpia
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/adobe-flashplugin
<NCommander> Its in the partner repo thouh
<atari> i dont want lpia ;)
<NCommander> *though
<NCommander> Ah, thats a completely seperate and valid issue ;-)
<NCommander> atari, so what do you specifically what?
<atari> NCommander: i want a normal ubuntu with the UNR options/look with a i386 base 
<NCommander> Then just install the current UNR packages, they are i386 based
<atari> cool :)
<atari> i'll try it this evening ;)
<atari> what should i use as root? 4GB, 8GB or 16GB?
<atari> how can i enable virtual desktopss/screens on ubuntu netbook remix? (jaunty)
<atari> ah
<atari> got it :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-03-31
<xrothgarx> I just installed jaunty-mid-lpia.img on my HP tc1100 tablet this weekend. Just wanted to stop by and say great job so far
<xrothgarx> looking good so far. and wanted to ask if I am using the correct version. I know there is a umpc version too but it looks like mid is ment for touchscreens only (which I use my tablet without a keyboard)
<xrothgarx> anyone have any suggestions either way? I am still working on getting the touchscreen to actually work (need to add wacom-tools to xorg I think)
<xrothgarx> also cuious about the moblin project and how that might differ from ubuntu mid. Thanks for any answers you can provide.
<untoldone> is there a more appropriate location for discussion of the 9.04 mid image?  if not, has anyone had an issue with the image getting stuck with the gnome splash screen displayed?
<lool> untoldone: The GNOME splash screen??  You mean the boot splash or the gnome-session splash?
<untoldone> lool: yes, gnome-session-splash ... couldn't repro after a reboot though
<untoldone> that was off of the beta usb image
<lool> untoldone: It's surprizing, this splash is disabled by default in Ubuntu
<untoldone> not sure -- i haven't seen it before then on 8.10 or since -- but it was definitely there
<untoldone> its possible i was actually seeing my copy of 8.10 mid if the system didn't boot off of the usb drive ... but even in that case, it was still a relatively untouched copy of ubuntu mid
<untoldone> just installed the egalax touchscreen driver ... but beyond that, it was the base image
<lool> No idea
<asac> lool: how sad would you guys be when mobile-basic-flash cannot fulfill depends anymore?
<lool> asac: I think we replaced it entirely with kourou
<lool> asac: We should probably just drop it (tm)
<asac> lool: great. looking at rdepends still left for xulrunner 1.8 ;)
<rothgar> lool I had the same problem when I tried booting with the OEM options on
<rothgar> I never got past the gnome splash screen. I reinstalled without the OEM options and it worked for me
<lool> Interesting
<lool> plars: ^ Do you think you could try reproducing?
<lool> Presumably we don't start oem-config properly or something
<plars> rothgar: was that with mid or unr? and which build?
<plars> sorry, just got back from an appointment
<rothgar> mid, the img I have is jaunty-mid-lpia (not sure on the build)
<rothgar> I downloaded it this weekend though
<plars> rothgar: I tested the build from yesterday and didn't see that problem, unfortunately I don't have an actual MID to test it on, I can only test under kvm
<plars> rothgar: GrueMaster had some problems but it doesn't sound quite the same as yours, he was getting into the install and it was hanging at 95%
<rothgar> I actually am not running on a MID (it is a tablet computer) but I could try doing a re-install
<rothgar> plars: what software is the home/menu system using? I am looking to add/edit some of it to add/remove icons to certain groups
<plars> rothgar: hildon-desktop
<asac> lool: whats the support status of mobile in gutsy?
<lool> asac: Sorry what do you mean?
<asac> lool: not sure. wonder if gutsy was a fully supported MID release or not
<asac> mobile-basic-flash is in there ;)
<lool> I don't think anybody cares about mobile gutsy anymore; we focus on hardy mostly
<lool> for support
<sabdfl> hi folks
<sabdfl> i noticed the image currently has the notification-daemon rather than notify-osd
<sabdfl> is that a conscious decision?
<lool> sabdfl: the UNR one?
<sabdfl> yup
<lool> sabdfl: It conflicts with UNR using clutter
<sabdfl> oh bugger
<sabdfl> what a pity
<lool> sabdfl: We'll need DRI2, next cycle
<sabdfl> but i understand
<ogra> sabdfl, it could work if notify-osd would get a switch that enforces the mode used in metacity
<ogra> so it would run in non composite mode
<ogra> sabdfl, preferably a gconf key that could get set in ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings
<sabdfl> ogra: if I can get that added, is there time to swap it in?
<ogra> sabdfl, its a one line change in ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings to add a boolean key, so i guess yes
<sabdfl> ok, i'll ask on #dx. did you discuss this with macslow already?
<ogra> and indeed it needs to replace notification-daemon in the seed/metapackage
<ogra> no, i'm way to focused on ARM ... i didnt do much in the desktop area this release, feel free to point him at me if he needs help though
<ogra> i just mentioned it to you because it seems like an obvious fix ;)
<ogra> (help as in -> uploader)
<davidbarth> ogra, lool: unr and notify-osd?
<ogra> davidbarth, yes ?
<davidbarth> ogra: sabdfl mentioned that you were discussing integrating n-osd in unr, or not
<davidbarth> ogra: because of the gl / compositing issue
<ogra> davidbarth, UNR launcher uses clutter ... clutter breaks with other composite mechanisms like i.e. compiz or the way notify-osd works
<davidbarth> ogra: n-osd uses compositing when present, or has a fallback code to make notifications look "almost" as good without compositing
<ogra> but notify-osd can work fine in non-composite environments if it detects that no composite is available
<davidbarth> ogra: indeed
<ogra> so my idea was that you could add a gconf switch to enforce non composite mode
<ogra> then you could use it in UNR
<ogra> in plain mode
<ogra> and we could get rid of notification-daemon in UNR ;)
<davidbarth> ogra: currently n-osd detects that at run-time; what would the gconf key add?
<ogra> it would skip the detection and enforce non-composite
<davidbarth> ogra: to prevent n-osd from using compositing anyway, just because someone may want to run in trouble by running unr-launcher & compositing?
<ogra> UNR usually has composite, but thats occupied by clutter
<ogra> right
<ogra> UNR has a ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings package
<davidbarth> ogra: really? compositing turned on for unr? 
<ogra> that sets some gconf keys
<davidbarth> ogra: ah, but without a compositing wm, right?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> and the launcher is hogging the resource
<davidbarth> ogra: got it now; the gconf key is quite an easy fix
<ogra> in the ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings package we could set the gconf key 
<asac> maybe UNR sets a special DESKTOP_SESSION env ?
<ogra> just make it a boolean setting true/false, then its a one line change in ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings
<davidbarth> ogra: let me check
<ogra> asac, that would be a question for StevenK ... it could also get a check if the UNR launcher is running ... but that seems more complicated than just adding a gconf key
<asac> hmm.isnt the UNR launcher also in the repository? e.g. can users just install it?
<davidbarth> ogra: that's indeed an easy fix
<asac> if so i would think having a solution that works for that case would be better
<ogra> asac, indeed but we're past beta and the fix would be bigger
<ogra> UNR launcher could set the gconf key :)
<asac> ogra: what would be the real fix?
<asac> ogra: yeah ... UNR running ;)
<ogra> the real fix would be to make clutter work with other composite implementation ;)
<asac> well. 
<ogra> +s
<asac> you know that thats not what i asked for ;)
<ogra> its annoying that the launcher doesnt work with compiz
<ogra> users installing it from the archive run into that prob anyway
<davidbarth> ogra: i'd prefer a env. variable however, because there is no gconf infrastructure in this part of the code; plus there is some assumption with gconf that we would monitor the key, etc.
<ogra> davidbarth, well, then we need to talk to StevenK what he can do ... 
<davidbarth> ogra: it's more a "hack" than a real configuration key; it's to workaround a bug
<asac> yeah. env sounds better. using a special DESKTOP_SESSION env maybe
<ogra> he maintains UNR ... i dont want to poke in his stuff without knowing what i do
<asac> ogra: dont you have UNR running?
<ogra> asac, i have a ton of ARM HW around me nothing here has more than frambuffer support :)
<davidbarth> asac: or NOTIFY_OSD_MUST_NOT_USE_COMPOSITING
<davidbarth> asac: a big nasty name, to make sure we don't keep it ;)
<asac> yeah. i would think that DESKTOP_SESSION is different anyway. so we could just reuse that
<ogra> asac, dont *you* have a UNR around ? :)
<asac> ogra: its busted ;)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> lool, ^^^
<ogra> lool, do you know the value for DESKTOP_SESSION on UNR ?
<asac> i wanted to help mvo but somehow my install didnt survive the reboot ;)
<ogra> there must be someone in this channel running UNR
<ogra> who can quickly type: env |grep ^DESKTOP 
<asac> so seems the env variables became less meaningless ;)
<asac> seems they are just GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID=this-is-deprecated
<asac> and 
<asac> DESKTOP_SESSION=whateveryoursessionname is
<asac> e.g. for fta on UNR it is "DESKTOP_SESSION=default"
<asac> fta: do you run the UNR launcher or plain gnome?
<ogra> thats the one we use on the normal gnome desktop as well
<fta> asac, UNR launcher
<asac> bad luck ;)
 * ogra suspects DESKTOP_SESSION comes from Xsession
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/141637/
<asac> thats  how xdg detects the DE
<asac> seems there is no standard at all
<ogra> Xsession is the quasi standard
<ogra> i dont see anything apart from gconf settings and a bunch of .desktop files in ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings
<ogra> doesnt look like its easily able to set an env var
<ogra> davidbarth, http://paste.ubuntu.com/141642/ if StevenK could add such a file to ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings and notify-osd could react on the env var, thats ugly but could work
<ogra> (alternatively the launcher could install /etc/X11/Xsession.d/85no-composite-for-osd, that would actually fix asac's complaint about users running UNR launcher on normal ubuntu)
<ogra> ... or the launcher could even export it directly on startup
<davidbarth> ogra: ;) no cookies for n-osd
<ogra> well
<davidbarth> ogra: are there other apps that would require the same treatment?
<davidbarth> ogra: ie, prevent them to use compositing, even if it is active?
<ogra> compiz ... but thats not installed 
<ogra> there are surely many apps in the archive that you could install though
<ogra> the thing was that sabdfl asked why notification-daemon is used in UNR instead of n-osd
<ogra> the gconf key was a simple suggestion to work around that 
<ogra> but i guess we can as well go with notification-daemon
<ogra> it just not as consistent as it could be
<ogra> anyway ...
 * ogra calls it a day, 12h are enough
<lool> davidbarth: Session env > not anything useful;
<lool> GDMSESSION=default.desktop
<lool> What about testing for maximus?
<davidbarth> lool: i think the big nasty env. variable is the way to go
<davidbarth> lool: it's really a temporary workaround; it's not meant to stay
<davidbarth> lool: if we try to integrate it nicely, then people may want to rely on it, where they should not; they should really fix GL + compositing
<davidbarth> ogra, lool: i've just pushed a fix for the env. var workaround we just discussed
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-01
<sotec_prod> Has anyone successfully installed ubuntu mobile on a WinMo device with an OMP processor? (samsung blackjack 2)
<davmor2> Guys is xournal a touch screen app?
<davmor2> ogra: hello
<davmor2> Is it too late to get an app removed from UNR?
<ogra> what would you want to remove ?
<davmor2> ogra: xournal it's a good app if you have a touch screen but most netbooks don't
<ogra> true 
<ogra> no idea why its included in UNR
<davmor2> ogra: It's 2 or 3 across from gedit.  At first I thought it was a dupe in apps but if you try and us it with out a touch screen it's like playing mission control
<davmor2> it just fires line to where the cursor is :)
<ogra> heh ... i'd file a bug 
<davmor2> have done
<ogra> either for the removal or for a fix
<davmor2> Bug 352961
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352961 in mobile-meta "Jaunty: Netbook Remix has xournal which doesn't seem to function correctly on netbooks" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352961
<davmor2> ogra: I also added maybe having the inclusion of a UNR-Touch meta-package to include common touch apps and settings for if the touch screen become common place :)
<ogra> good idea, we should make a spec out of that
<davmor2> ogra: knock yourself out you know more about what half decent apps and settings are out there :) 
<ogra> not true foir jaunty UNR ... i'm mainly doing ARM enablement this cycle, StevenK is the guy caring for UNR in januty
<StevenK> xournal has been killed from the meta package
<ogra> StevenK, oh, you are here 
<ogra> StevenK, did you see the notify-osd discussion with sabdfl and davidbarth above ?
<StevenK> I thought lool did that upload?
 * ogra didnt see any uploads yet
<ogra> as i understand there is a "fix" in n-osd bzr thats not been uploaded yet, which adds support for an env var that enforces non-composite mode
<StevenK> I thought u-n-r-d-s 0.5.0 was uploaded?
<ogra> if thats uploaded we need to set that var somewhere and replace notification-daemon with n-osd
<ogra> u-n-r-d-s 0.5.0 doesnt change anything wrt notifications
<ogra> sabdfl wants the new notification system in UNR
<StevenK> Yeah, I see that.
<davmor2> StevenK: Cool :)
<atari> i have the problem that my system seems to hang for 1-2s if i open a new page in firefox (as example). is it a known problem?
<StevenK> ogra: I have the changes locally, I don't see the notify-osd changes in LP yet
<ogra> StevenK, <davidbarth> ogra, lool: i've just pushed a fix for the env. var workaround we just discussed
<ogra> thats been 20:33 UTC yesterday
<StevenK> Where LP == the archive
<ogra> yeah, i think nobody uploaded it yet
<ogra> i dont even know the var name, else you could add something already 
<ogra> i would propose (even though its very ugly) to add an Xsession.d script to the launcher that exports it
<ogra> i.e. /etc/X11/Xsession.d/85no-composite-for-osd with:
<ogra> #!/bin/sh
<ogra> NOTIFY_OSD_MUST_NOT_USE_COMPOSITING=True
<ogra> export NOTIFY_OSD_MUST_NOT_USE_COMPOSITING
<ogra> thats what we discussed yesterday (or hack up the launcher itself to export it from C )
<ogra> (the latter might produce races though if n-osd starts before the launcher)
<playya> ogra, maybe you should look into the XDG dokumentation if there's a flag for composite
<playya> or HAL
<playya> ehh some dbus method of your choice :)
<ogra> playya, well, not my business actually, i think the dx team has already implementd something in notify-osd
<playya> ok
<ogra> beyond that composite is there and will be detected ... which is the exact problem
<playya> because of notify-osd i won't upgrad to jaunty
<ogra> really ?
 * ogra likes notify-osd
<ogra> i dont like the stuff that has changed around the notification stuff
<ogra> buut the notification system itself is pretty cool
<playya> i use E really often ( if its not crashing) and it doesn't support n-osd
<playya> only libnotify
<ogra> well, you can remove n-osd and use libnotify
<playya> but all programs use n-osd
<ogra> that doesnt mean they are not able to use notification-daemon anymore
<playya> i thought nosd replaces libn completely
<ogra> if its installed, yes
<playya> ot: can i set blink for the normal backgroundcolor in grub?
<playya> brb. testing
<playya> ok. doesn't work
<ogra> file a bug :)
<ogra> UNR still uses notification-daemon all over the place ... nobody complained during the beta testing
<playya> nobody uses enlightenment ;)
<ogra> well, does that matter ?
<ogra> notification-daemon should simply work, else its an E bug
<playya> i don't have a jaunty install because of missind disk space and my second hdd has zfs as a first partition -> jaunty can't create a partition
<lool> davidm: mdz@canonical-cloaked-58A6C14A.range86-143.btcentralplus.com (canonical)       
<lool> Ups
<lool> davidm, StevenK: 353263
<lool> I think it wont make it
<lool> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/intel-hands-over-the-keys-to-its-linux-operating-system/
<ian_brasil> if i were to advice someone just starting out with development of ubuntu mobile i would advise them to download the latest image and to run it in QEMU or KVM
<ian_brasil> is there some preferred graphical way..like using Virtual Box or Virtual Machine Manager?
<lool> ian_brasil: I think virtualbox is a bit harder to convert the image, but then you can easily boot either disk
<lool> ian_brasil: With kvm or qemu it's hard to switch boot disk, so hard to install from that .img; but we have a trick for that as well.
 * lool bed &
<ian_brasil> lool: that which you posted to the mailing list a while back right
<methods> the arm-ubuntu notebooks should be coming out now that it's april right ?
<methods> how do i get mid ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-02
<bittin_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090402 
<ogra> bittin_, ?
<bittin_> cya there =)
<ogra> :)
<playya_> doko, do you want to build gobject-introspection for intrepid?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-03
<chomchom> hello hello
<chomchom> Has anyone any experience with synching data on a mobile phone?
<chomchom> I'm not synching regular email or calendar style PIM data
<chomchom> but I don't imagine it will be much different
<chomchom> Going by intuition our approach would be to just add new entries to a separate table in the apps SQLite DB
<chomchom> Then upon establishing a connection you would consolidate those entries to the servers DB tables with a little consolidation business logic
<chomchom> We don't want to go too far too fast and go the whole hog with a synch server solution, I'm just looking to spike a homemade version to understand the mechanics
<chomchom> Any advice would be appreciated.
<Nafallo> hi :-)
<Nafallo> I wonder why in UNR I have Evolution and Pidgin as favorites I can't delete :-)
<Nafallo> considering I haven't even got them installed... :-)
<Nafallo> also, the meta package seems to depend on a cupsys dummy package :-)
<Nafallo> ubuntu-netbook-remix depends on cupsys-driver-gutenprint, which seem to be cups-driver-gutenprint now :-)
<Nafallo> anyone around? njpatel ? :-)
<njpatel> what's up?
<Nafallo> njpatel: about 20 minutes ago I asked a couple of questions :-)
<Nafallo> njpatel: (and I'm asking you since I kind of remember you owning this project a bit)
<Nafallo> aha. seems to be in the ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings
<Nafallo> njpatel: want a wishlist bug about "Remove" setting the a local homedir "Hidden" flag for those .desktop files shipped in that package? :-)
<Nafallo> s/\ a\ /\ /
<njpatel> Nafallo: I think that's a bug in netbook-launcher (can't remove shortcuts). Could you file a bug in https://launchpad.net/netbook-remix-launcher , and I'll get to it either today or first thing monday
<njpatel> Nafallo: it should already do that, it's a regression
<Nafallo> \o/
<Nafallo> njpatel: thanks :-). and the cupsys/cups thing in the meta-package? :-)
<njpatel> probably, need to talk to lool or StevenK about that
 * njpatel is just UI monkey :)
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> Bug #258397 seems fixed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258397 in netbook-remix-launcher "Remove favorite is not functioning as expected" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258397
 * Nafallo files a new one since he couldn't find a bug about the remove favourites in ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings
<njpatel> Nafallo: that isn't it, a new one would be better :)
<Nafallo> njpatel: yes. that one looks fixed though. I can't see that option on the right hand side menu anymore? :-)
<Nafallo> (should be closed! \o/)
<njpatel> Nafallo: good point :)
<Nafallo> hrm. I don't have my normal bug priviegies, so can't set milestone etc... ;-)
<Nafallo> Bug #354533
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/354533/+text)
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-04
<carmelo42> hello everybody
<carmelo42> I have a question
<carmelo42> I have an Aigo MID but it's an SFR version french mobile operator
<carmelo42> the device can boot on every CD via an usb cd reader
<carmelo42> but it can't boot on usb key ...
<carmelo42> it's an SFR operator limitation
<carmelo42> so .. I want to burn the ubuntu mid .img file on a cd ... but I don't know how ...
<carmelo42> have you any idea ?
<ian_brasil> in virtual box it is possible to set a shared folder between guest and host ..is this possible with kvm?
<lool> carmelo42: Hey
<carmelo42> hey
<lool> carmelo42: I had the same issue
<carmelo42> have you found something ?
<lool> carmelo42: I think the BIOS checks for a particular magic
<lool> carmelo42: What you can do is use the recovery USB key as a base, and then replace the files on that image
<carmelo42> ok
<lool> carmelo42: Start by making a copy of the USB key (with dd for instance)
<carmelo42> i have done this
<lool> Write it to a new key
<carmelo42> ok
<lool> Then replace syslinux.cfg, vmlinuz and the like with what's in the ubuntu .img
<lool> Don't touch ldlinux.sys
<lool> That should hopefully work
<carmelo42> ok thanks you i will try that
<lool> I've personally successfully changed syslinux.cfg, so I think it's possible to do this
<carmelo42> you have the same MID ?
<lool> Yes, I bought it a couple of weeks ago, but didn't have time to finish the reverse engineering of the BIOS checks
<lool> I think it's in ldlinux.sys, but it could be in the vfat
<carmelo42> ok
<lool> I already checked whether it was just the syslinux version, but it's not
<carmelo42> are you french ?
<lool> I am
<carmelo42> moi aussi :)
<carmelo42> Ã§a sera plus simple :)
<lool> But we're on an English chan ;)
<carmelo42> ok sorry ;)
<lool> I actually had an English version of the Aigo MID, but it was stolen
<lool> carmelo42: Happy to hear if the suggestions work for you, either here or on the mailing list
<ian_brasil> maybe kvm cannot do shared folders and you need to set up a bridge and use scp to move files onto the guest
<lool> ian_brasil: I think so
<ian_brasil> Virtual Box has shared folders and it is cool
<ian_brasil> and it raises the bar a lot for new developers to ubuntu mobile in that you need to set up a bridge in order to develop
<ian_brasil> i will explain Virtual Box, KVM and setting up from scratch in the book
<rzr> qemu/kvm has -smb option
<ian_brasil> just tried to install mid in a virtual machine and i got an language error code 141..is this known about? 
<ian_brasil> this is on the beta lpia mid
<ian_brasil> rzr: this is windows only though right..or you need samba
<rzr> or any plateform that support smb protocol
<ian_brasil> it is easier to just use scp i think
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-05
<rzr> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=2
<atari> my "task bar" isnt starting anymore. which app is responsible for that?
<atari> is it known that the acer aspire one suspend/hibernate isnt working with the latest ubuntu kernel?
<ian_brasil> atari: yes #347916 
 * ian_brasil look for the bugbot
<atari> ian_brasil: you're sure about the number?
<ian_brasil> atari: no :)..it was something like this though..and bugbot seems to have gone walkies at the moment
<ian_brasil> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/348012
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348012 in linux "Acer Aspire One doesn't wake up when lid opens" [Medium,Triaged]
 * ian_brasil smacks ubottu around the head
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-04-05
<vgrade> hi guys, anyone hacking the joggler here?
<persia> joggler?
<vgrade> http://shop.o2.co.uk/joggler - 7inch - atom - touchscreen - efi based device
<persia> permission denied here.  Have you a model number?
<vgrade> http://www.slashgear.com/o2-joggler-home-media-tablet-price-slashed-0180022/
<persia> Nifty!  Does it run Ubuntu cleanly?
<vgrade> it runs Ubuntu Netbook Remix but this does not utilise the touchscreen
<vgrade> it runs the 2.6.24-19-lpia kernel
<persia> Do you know which touchscreen it has?
<vgrade> ive just downloaded mccaslin usb image, this seems to use the same kernel so this may me possible  
<persia> "lpia" is just hype.  It ought do fine with any i386 image.
<persia> The bits that I think might need work are 1) the installer (I'm unsure if the flavour of EFI on that hardware is handled right, or how the device boots), and the drivers (e.g. touchscreen, audio, etc.)
<vgrade> we have efi and an elilo bootmanager working
<persia> with d-i?
<vgrade> going to try to disct the mccaslin image to extract the filesystems , add in the ko's we need
<vgrade> d-i?
<persia> debian-installer
<persia> No reason to dissect the entire image.  You should be able to just get that from the kernel packages.
 * persia hunts up a link
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-lpia has 2.6.28 and 2.6.27
<vgrade> thanks i'll have a look
<vgrade> what are you targeting here
<persia> Hrm, seems that the 8.06 release expired it's 18-month support, and the archive is missing (or I just can't find it).
<persia> We're generally focused on ways to improve support for the current development release of Ubuntu for mobile devices.
<persia> So the kernel is 2.6.32 (because that's what is in lucid).
<persia> Prior work has been stuff like Ubuntu MID, Ubuntu UMPC, and Ubuntu Netbook (now passed to the Desktop team, and more mainstream).
<persia> This cycle there's been some light work on LXDE and Qt/Plasma but nothing that was solid enough to publish.
<persia> I know that both LXDE and Qt/plasma for mobile are planned for next cycle, and I hear rumours of a couple more things people may introduce at UDS.
<vgrade> Touch devices will be the NBT so we need support in the GUI's, 
<persia> NBT?
<vgrade> net big thing
<vgrade> next big thing
<persia> The trick is finding stuff that works for both point-size-pointers and finger-size-pointers.
<persia> There's a lot of patches out there that work for one or the other, but only work for one way, unfortunately.
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-04-06
<davidm> StevenK, you about?
