#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-03-28
<dragon> considering this bug, I'm glad that I made the switch to Ubuntu years ago.
<dragon> It would be painful to boot into a different OS to watch a youtube video, e.g.
<pleia2> meeting in 10 minutes :)
<pleia2> (this weekend went by too quick!)
<philipballew> they always do that! it feels like they've been stolen...
<DarkwingDuck> yeesh, how long does it take to clone a 200Gig HD using dd?
<pleia2> long time
<DarkwingDuck> No kidding... we are going on 5 hours
<philipballew> i had a question to awing by you guys here. if ive been posting a question on the forms and the people there dont know, wheres another place to ask?
<philipballew> *ask
<DarkwingDuck> What are you looking for?
<DarkwingDuck> Normally, I look for an answer on google...
<iheartubuntu> whats dd?
<iheartubuntu> i just fini transferring 1TB of data from several drives now all on one
<DarkwingDuck> iheartubuntu: http://serverfault.com/questions/4906/using-dd-for-disk-cloning
<philipballew> i need to ssh to my desktop thats on the same network here but it appears its on a different subnet and i doesnt wanna connect
<pleia2> philipballew: well you can always ask here, or #ubuntu or #ubuntu-beginners
<DarkwingDuck> You should be able to as long as your whitelisted via network IP
<DarkwingDuck> But, iirc you have to set the whitelist
<DarkwingDuck> because everything is blacklisted as default
<philipballew> that makes sence. ill do the irc ubuntu or beginers because theres probably more people there
<iheartubuntu> so dd is copying from oen drive to another?
<philipballew> thanks!
<DarkwingDuck> But, but it copies EVERYTHING
<DarkwingDuck> philipballew: No problem.
<iheartubuntu> unfortunately, im not ready for my report yet on games night :(
<iheartubuntu> will have to be next meeting
<DarkwingDuck> and I'm in crunch mode so everything has gotten ignored 'cept docs
<iheartubuntu> if its copying doesnt it depend then on the computer itself? the USBs and/or the connections?
<DarkwingDuck> Not if you are running the command form a LiveCD
<DarkwingDuck> Then the firesystems are not actually being used.
<pleia2> ok, meeting time!
<iheartubuntu> my 2.0 USB is really fast compared to 1.0, but my dads new computer he bought today has 3.0 and WOW
<pleia2> this shouldn't take long, we have a short agenda
<DarkwingDuck> firesystems/silesystems
 * DarkwingDuck gets his popcorn
<pleia2> ==== START ====
<iheartubuntu> :)
<pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/11March27
<philipballew> quite the big agenda!
<pleia2> TOPIC: Ubuntu Global Jam Parties
<pleia2> so the Global Jam is next weekend, Apr 1-3
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<pleia2> our wiki page for it is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/NattyGlobalJam
<pleia2> as you can see we have 2 events planned, one in Walnut Creek on Friday and another in Berkeley on Sunday
<pleia2> more are welcome :)
<DarkwingDuck> These on the loco directory yet?
<dragon> o/
<pleia2> yes, the links are on the wiki
<DarkwingDuck> are they all inclusive or, are they topical jams?
 * eps giggles
<pleia2> the one in Walnut Creek is all inclusive, jono's email about it is here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-March/001640.html
<dragon> o.O
<DarkwingDuck> Roger
<dragon> We have a meeting, right?
<pleia2> for the Berkeley one I put on the wiki: Focus: Testing and Bugs
<DarkwingDuck> We are in the meeting now dragon
<pleia2> dragon: this is the meeting :)
<aaditya> Oh, no wonder.
<iheartubuntu> :)
<aaditya> I see no messages on my pidgin.
<DarkwingDuck> ?
<pleia2> but even at the Berkeley one we can do other stuff too
<pleia2> DarkwingDuck: were you going to do a virtual doc jam?
<DarkwingDuck> I'm still thinking about setting one up online but, it all depends how much crunch work I have.
 * pleia2 nods
<DarkwingDuck> But yes. I'll post date and time on the ML
<pleia2> cool, thanks :)
<DarkwingDuck> One of my doc gurus got his lappy stolen
<DarkwingDuck> So crunch time +1
<pleia2> oh, and I mailed the list about it this morning, but in case you're interested in running one but are not sure how, there is an event in #ubuntu-classroom tomorrow geared toward getting everyone ready: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJamBootcamp
<pleia2> yeah, poor nixternal :(
<DarkwingDuck> Yeah... I called him last night... still no luch
<DarkwingDuck> *luck
<pleia2> ok, any thing else about the Jams?
<DarkwingDuck> Lets get good quality work out there...
<DarkwingDuck> These Jams help us Devs more then people know.
<DarkwingDuck> ESP Unity
<DarkwingDuck> Unity needs some major TLC
 * DarkwingDuck gets off his soapbox
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> TOPIC: Announcements, other things
<pleia2> anyone have any bright ideas? comments? rants?
<DarkwingDuck> Unity needs testors and bug reporting
<DarkwingDuck> :P
<philipballew> whats the best way to do that?
<philipballew> do i need to actually install 11.04 or can i report bugs from my vbox machine just fine?
<DarkwingDuck> Download and install a daily live CD http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<pleia2> only if vbox supports accelerated graphics for your card
<DarkwingDuck> vbox will not give you the Unity 3D
<philipballew> hum. i can partition this week then
<pleia2> there is an experimental thing to enable 3d in vbox, but it hardly works for anyone :\
<pleia2> this is one of the many reasons they need more testers, it's harder to do testing because you pretty much have to do it on actual hardware
<DarkwingDuck> Here are the list of bugs
<DarkwingDuck> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity
<eps> DarkwingDuck: I was expecting we'd be working from Beta 1
<pleia2> the beta 1 or the daily build
<pleia2> (beta1 comes out on the 31st)
<DarkwingDuck> Here are the list of new bugs. https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New
<DarkwingDuck> Replicate and confirm the bugs is a good start.
<philipballew> gotta build that karma somehow
<DarkwingDuck> This is a simple way to help with Unity
 * eps would really like to see how viable Natty is on machines with older, less-capable video hardware
<philipballew> unity is gonna be interesting. should see what happens
<DarkwingDuck> :)
<pleia2> ok, anything else?
<pleia2> eps: if Unity doesn't work for some reason it falls back to regular gnome (it did this flawlessly on my VM), so I wouldn't worry too much
<pleia2> alright, I think we can wrap this up then :)
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<pleia2> ==== END ====
<DarkwingDuck> :D
<philipballew>   :)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Webpage: http://ubuntu-california.org  (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, April 10th, 7:00pm PDT | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<iheartubuntu> does anyone here have any experience with LinuxCNC?
<iheartubuntu> http://www.linuxcnc.org/
<pleia2> I'll be in puerto rico during our next meeting
<akk> puerto rico! sounds fun
<pleia2> yeah, my boyfriend is going for work so I'm tagging along
<pleia2> (resort hotel paid for by work? don't mind if I do!)
<akk> \o/
<iheartubuntu> NICE!
<pleia2> networking conferences in tropical places are nice :)
 * iheartubuntu lived in BVIs for a year
<iheartubuntu> any plans to go to Tortola pleia2?
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: no plans aside from pools and pina coladas
<pleia2> we're staying in san juan
<iheartubuntu> nice
<eps> Say hola to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PuertoRicoTeam
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> I'm actually going to try very hard to take a proper Ubuntu-less vacation
<pleia2> (I'll have email so I'll probably fail - but I will try!)
<iheartubuntu> for me i go to bed and wake up in what seems like 1 minute of sleep
<iheartubuntu> like i didnt even sleep!
<iheartubuntu> but i did!
<iheartubuntu> so is the life
<iheartubuntu> i could use a vaca
<akk> You want a cow?
<akk> :)
<iheartubuntu> -tion
<iheartubuntu> :)
<iheartubuntu> my dad just bought a Gateway slimline computer today. i3 with 1TB starage. not bad for $500
<iheartubuntu> 4GB mem
<iheartubuntu> I tried to go into windows and it took more time for the "first time turning on" section than it did to install ubuntu
<iheartubuntu> so i tried to burn a system restore disc in win7 in case ubuntu gave me a prob. win7 failed at burning a disc!
<iheartubuntu> so i said piss on it, and wiped win7 off and installed ubuntu 10.10
<iheartubuntu> my dad is super happy!
<akk> yay
<iheartubuntu> i has 10.04 on his old single core P4 with 1GB ram system and it finally failed. but not bad for 11 yr old computer
<grantbow-a> Sorry for missing the meeting, delayed without a computer. Ttys
<eps> iheartubuntu: I hope they let you order recovery discs somehow
<pleia2> grantbow-a: no worries, not much on the agenda anyway :)
<iheartubuntu> ive got a free ubuntu recovery disc :)
<iheartubuntu> no win7 for us
<grantbow-a> K, thanks
<iheartubuntu> my sis had a prob with newegg a few years ago
<eps> Sometimes you "need" one ... to upgrade firmware, get warranty support, etc.
<grantbow-a> This android phone isn't ideal for IRC. Cya.
<iheartubuntu> how would i do a firmware upgrade on an ubuntu system anyways?
<iheartubuntu> if they only offer EXE
<eps> Boot from flash media?
<akk> Sometimes you can make a bootable DOS or Freedos disk.
<akk> That won't work for all firmware upgrades, though.
<iheartubuntu> ohh interesting. ive always wondered that
<iheartubuntu> but then, i cant recall the last time i ever needed to do a firmware upgrade
<akk> We just had to on our router -- there was an SSL bug, and fixing it required running a windows-or-mac program. :(
<iheartubuntu> that bytes
<eps> Confused: Gateway is Acer now? http://secure.tx.acer.com/RCDB/Main.aspx?brand=gateway
<iheartubuntu> i heard gateway was either going to fold or get bought out
<iheartubuntu> i like gateway more than acer
<iheartubuntu> some of the acer boxes look so cheap
<pleia2> I liked the cow boxes
<iheartubuntu> i have two cows
<iheartubuntu> 32 bit at work, 64 at home right here
<akk> I saw a nice gateway netbook in a store a few weeks ago.
<akk> Don't think I'd seen them in stores before.
<akk> but yeah, I liked the cows too
<philipballew> gateway used to have their own stores. they made the computer store what it is
<eps> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway,_Inc.
<iheartubuntu> i used to have a gateway store near me in monrovia
<jhanafrog> what's going on peeps
<jhanafrog> i hear good things about gateways and linux
<eps> Speaking of cows, Ben & Jerry's Free Cone Day is April 12 this year.
<philipballew> i have a emachine
<philipballew> its owned by gateway
<philipballew> best desktop ive owned
<iheartubuntu> emachine?
<jhanafrog> whoa serious philipballew?  i didn't know emachines were that great
<jhanafrog> when they first came out, like a million years ago, they were like the "thrift" model
<philipballew> it may be not that powerful but the thing had been through hell and come out alive. many times. it has never had a problem and its been 7  years. ubuntu runs perfect on it
<jhanafrog> or thrift "brand"
<jhanafrog> maybe your model is a higher end one though, and more recent
<philipballew> its after gateway bought them that they got better
<akk> When they were young and the thrift brand, they were sometimes quite good (though variable).
<philipballew> it is basic but just robust
<akk> We had a couple of emachines that were way better than, say, Dells or Gateways of the time.
<akk> They used standard parts so they were repairable.
<philipballew> thats one thing i like
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/Current edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/MeetingChecklist edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/11April24 edited
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/11March27 edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Menu edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings edited
<DarkwingDuck> Whoot! darkwingduck@StCanard:~$ sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdc
<DarkwingDuck> 390721968+0 records in
<DarkwingDuck> 390721968+0 records out
<DarkwingDuck> 200049647616 bytes (200 GB) copied, 32814 s, 6.1 MB/s
<jhanafrog> haha that's cool DarkwingDuck
<DarkwingDuck> Now I'm going to boot to it with my netbook and see how it really worked.
<DarkwingDuck> If it does I'll be blogging tonight.
<jhanafrog> your netbook has a 200GB drive in it?
<jhanafrog> or is it an external drive?
<DarkwingDuck> No,
<DarkwingDuck>  /dev/sdc was a portable drive
<jhanafrog> 1
<jhanafrog> ok
<jhanafrog> is there a way to include a password to a remote system in scp for automation in a script?
<nhaines> jhanafrog: don't do that.  Use an RSA key instead.
<jhanafrog> no thanks
<nhaines> Suit yourself.
<jhanafrog> i just need something simple right now
<pleia2> reminder, anyone interested in doing global jam sessions #ubuntu-classroom (and #ubuntu-classroom-chat for questions) is doing the global jam bootcamp today with a bunch of people presenting on jam stuff
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJamBootcamp
<pleia2> started at 9
<kdub_> whats globaljam
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/NattyGlobalJam
<Guest460372> hehe
<Guest460372> weeee
<Guest460372> i need to try natty in a vm
<Guest460372> hey iheartubuntu
<Guest460372> do you like my new nick?  i used python to generate the number randomly
 * Guest460372 eats a piece of seaweed
<iheartubuntu> i love the name
<iheartubuntu> its very becoming
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-03-29
<kdub_> http://gnome3.org/ is coming down the pipes soon
<nhaines> And so it has.
<iheartubuntu> gnome3 looks nice. i wonder how it will work in real life though.
<kdub_> i'm gonna try it out today
<nhaines> I would try it if there were any way to run it from a Live CD.
 * iheartubuntu still does not understand why university blocks IRC
<kevin37353088484> random.randrange(1,100000000000,1) :P
<iheartubuntu> HOLY COW.... someone else is using Ubuntu here at the university! Their name popped up in Empathy as "users nearby"
<pleia2> hehe
<iheartubuntu> no!!! the girl is using a mac
<iheartubuntu> dang
<iheartubuntu> if they can see me then my name is iheartubuntu ")
<iheartubuntu> thats too bad. would have been fun to connect with someone else using ubuntu.
<akk> What does "users nearby" show? Maybe just people using any chat protocol?
<iheartubuntu> this i dont know
<iheartubuntu> well, at work it does not show say, my wife using icq, or my sis using yahoo
<iheartubuntu> but in empathy there is a "people nearby" that picks up anyone on the local network i guess
<akk> Of course I also wonder what "nearby" means in the internet age ... same subnet?
<iheartubuntu> i guess they have to have their chat client running too
<iheartubuntu> so maybe ichat in a mac works similar to empathy
<iheartubuntu> has anyone played Penumbra on ubuntu? i got it with the humble indie bundle, but never been able to run it (resolution probs)
<iheartubuntu> "henry" is also a mac user... although it wont let me communicate with him
<iheartubuntu> so two people now... both mac users
<kevin37353088484> oh hey, iheartubuntu i lost that link to the comic creating program.  do you still have it.
<kevin37353088484> i drew a maverick meerkat from that sticker i got at SCaLE for my niece today
<iheartubuntu> uno momento
<kevin37353088484> it turned out not so bad
<iheartubuntu> what
<kevin37353088484> the drawing
<akk> A GSOC student applied today to GIMP to fix the comic-book filter. That would be a fun project, if it gets approved.
<kevin37353088484> i'm not sure what a comic book filter is
<akk> Turn a photo into something that looks like a comic.
<akk> Except it doesn't -- it works very poorly, right now.
<kevin37353088484> ah, i see
<kevin37353088484> speaking of comics, i was at UCLA the other day and they had Marvel vs. Capcom there, and i was wondering why they didn't make cartoons with the art they used in that game
<iheartubuntu> akk , there is a plugin in gimp or is it already in gimp?
<akk> already there
 * iheartubuntu waiting desperately to get home so i can brew some espresso
<iheartubuntu> any clue why a university would block irc??
<iheartubuntu> they arent blocking some chat clients like yahoo messenger, icq, gmail chat, etc. i wonder why they block irc
<pleia2> a lot of them do, there are lots of irc channels for doing questionable things like sharing illegal files, etc
<pleia2> freenode is exceptional in its usefulness :)
<pleia2> people used to host filesharing bots, and run their own (xdcc was the most popular)
<pleia2> they took up loooots of bandwidth over dcc, so schools shut of all access
<iheartubuntu> ohh i see. DANG
<iheartubuntu> doing irc via webchat isnt very fun or easy
<iheartubuntu_> Italy gave you the boot!
<kevin37353088484> was it Sarcozzi?
<kevin37353088484> i think that's his name
<kevin37353088484> "The Heel of Italy"
<kevin37353088484> wrong country
<kevin37353088484> Berlusconi
<kevin37353088484> i and i
<kevin37353088484> coincidence?
<iheartubuntu_> dang, 30 minute warning at library here
<iheartubuntu_> so i hung out friday night with 6 women... my wife and five IRS auditors. Let me tell you stories :)
<kevin37353088484> i should go to good will when i'm in LA, see if they have any long ethernet cables.  they sell them for like $1
<kevin37353088484> no vga cables though
<iheartubuntu_> i'm melting! i'm melting!
 * iheartubuntu is installing gnome3 in VB
<iheartubuntu> ohhh wow, its pretty nice!
<iheartubuntu> i feel like im on a star trek computer
<iheartubuntu> burning to disc. will try it out as a live cd. doesnt render well in virtualbox
<kdub_> ghost kdub
<kdub_> whoops, at least i didnt put the pw out :)
<DarkwingDuck> :)
<kdub> DarkwingDuck: we're thinknig the next ubuntu hour SD will be 4/19, if you can make ti
<kdub> i'm gonna print up my flier, put it up around UCSD/USD and see who we can get to come out
<iheartubuntu> that reminds me, i need to whip up a flyer to put around Cal State LA and maybe around CalTech about Ubuntu Hour
<DarkwingDuck> kdub: awesome.
<DarkwingDuck> kdub: advertise it as a Ubuntu Hour and Install party
<iheartubuntu> one hour seems like not enough :)
 * iheartubuntu considers starting an Ubuntu Marathon :) j/k
<nhaines> Please do not do install parties running for less than 5 hours.
<pleia2> yeah, it's easy to think you can get an install done in an hour but it never works out like that
<iheartubuntu> I tried to run a daily build of Natty LiveCD last night and it would get going
<pleia2> you end up getting kicked out of your venue with a half installed machine left in a horrible state
<pleia2> kicked out == they close, etc
<pleia2> we had 5 hours planned for our last installfest and we were there for 6 debugging a RAM issue
<kdub> I don't know if I want to be there for 5 hours :)
<pleia2> people tend to come to installfests because they tried and had problems, so they want help and it takes a while to debug
<iheartubuntu> GNOME3 is very interesting. It seems very basic, yet powerful.
<kdub> i tried it out too, i like gnome3
 * kdub has always been a graphics type person
<iheartubuntu> I have my dads old desktop here with a "low memory" problem.
<iheartubuntu> im thinking to redo the bios maybe to fix the prob
<iheartubuntu> its an ubunut system that takes like 10 reboots to ever boot into ubuntu
<iheartubuntu> i never had a prob on that computer until recently upgrading from 10.04 to 10.10
<iheartubuntu> maybe there is a grub setting that got changed
<kdub> DarkwingDuck: i think i'm gonna distribute the fliers and location for april at SDSU, as its a strong engineering school...
<DarkwingDuck> Aye, where are we going to hold it?
<kdub> i'm thinking at the starbucks at La Jolla Shopping Center, its walking distance from the campus
<kdub> I haven't seen that particular location yet though, will swing by it on the way back from work today to check it out
<DarkwingDuck> Okay
<kdub> if its a good location, i'll make the announcement, print the fliers, etc today
<pleia2> fwiw I offer to give tips about issues with ubuntu at every ubuntu hour, you don't need to call it an installfest to give 15 minutes of help :)
<pleia2> so people bring laptops and things with weird problems and we can try to debug
<pleia2> also, why is it only tuesday? :(
<DarkwingDuck> Okay kdub.
<kdub> i've also been keeping my antennae up for the other hackers groups around here
<kdub> found 12-15 who meet once a month out by the 15/52
<kdub> in addition to kplug
<DarkwingDuck> I think there are a couple of hackerspaces here in SD
<kdub> there's one i know of, relatively new (november). still havent made it out there, but i think they have a warehouse. clairemont area if i remember
<DarkwingDuck> kdub: there are two listed here... http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/List_of_People
<kdub> nucleon has a physical space though, the other group is more of a coffeehouse coders group
 * kdub always associates hackerspaces with physical hardware hacks
<iheartubuntu> how about... kevin8675309
<kevin50047419529> i'm using random.randrange(1,100000000000,1) to generate the number
<kevin50047419529> in python
<kevin50047419529> hey do you have experience with ecommerce iheartubuntu?
<jledbetter> kevin50047419529, We share a lot of channels.
<iheartubuntu> what sort of ecommerce?
<kevin50047419529> jledbetter: 3
<akk> If you'd drop about 4 zeroes from that, it would disturb the xchat separator line a lot less.
<jledbetter> Seems like more.
 * kevin50047419529 laughs
<kevin50047419529> big numbers are fun though :(
 * akk wants an xchat setting to say "automatically adjust the separator line but not for any nick longer than 12 chars"
<jledbetter> +1 akk
<kevin50047419529> iheartubuntu: like, you click a link it says "give me 5 cents for that"
<kevin50047419529> i'll get on that akk
<iheartubuntu> quite an interesting link for me... my music biz back in '95 used the thawte security protection (thawte was founded by shuttleworth). i used it because my GF at the time had connections to shuttleworth. small world! she bought me the domains and the thawte service (which i couldnt afford!)
<kevin50047419529> jledbetter: it is transparent that you don't really like me
<kevin50047419529> to be blunt
<kevin50047419529> you must think i'm an ignoramus, i can assure you i am trying
<jledbetter> kevin50047419529, Untrue. You are sometimes very random and confusing.
<iheartubuntu> back then in 95 my whole shopping cart system was set up for me. nowadays i use websites like payloadz or e-junkie for shopping carts
<kevin4942941> jledbetter: untrue, it all makes perfect sense to me
<jledbetter> kevin4942941, Perhaps I am alone in feeling that it is disruptive at times.
<kevin4942941> iheartubuntu: what about paypal?
<kevin4942941> jledbetter: i doubt you are
<pleia2> no, she's not
<kevin4942941> maybe i'll get voted off the island
<iheartubuntu> paypal works fine if you have an item to send. they dont handle digital downloads... say of a a ZIP file, a PDF book, a DEB file for sale, etc
<kevin4942941> well, my cat loves me :|
<kevin4942941> ah, interesting iheartubuntu, thanks
<kevin4942941> so does my neighbor's dog
<kevin4942941> payloadz or e-junkie i'll keep that in mind
<pleia2> kevin4942941: disruptive and random doesn't mean "don't like you"
<iheartubuntu> there is no island kevin8675309
<akk> right, +1 pleia2
<akk> and jledbetter
<iheartubuntu> we are all on the same boat :)
<jledbetter> +1 pleia2
 * kevin4942941 blinks
 * kdub buys boatload of sparkfun 
<pleia2> kdub++
<kevin4942941> allspark
<kevin4942941> connections
<kevin4942941> aren't random
<kevin4942941> they are quite frequently "weird"...
<iheartubuntu> like my connection to anna chapman for example
<iheartubuntu> j/k
<iheartubuntu> :)
<iheartubuntu> i'll be visited by the cia tomorrow
<kevin4942941> any relation to the IRS?
<iheartubuntu> yes
<iheartubuntu> Internets Running Slow
<kevin4942941> no, brain is
<kevin4942941> for a 2nd i'm thinking "does he really know anna chapman"
<kevin4942941> what a maroon
<iheartubuntu> haha
 * iheartubuntu laughs hysterically under his breath while kevin isnt looking
<iheartubuntu> actually...
<kevin4942941> does anna chapman work for the iRS?
<iheartubuntu> actually my wife has to field all the anna chapman questions ever since that happened.
<kevin4942941> who is anna chapman dating, anyway?
<kevin4942941> not that i follow celebrity gossip
<iheartubuntu> I think she works for FSB actually, the russian cia now
<kevin4942941> i wonder who her male counterpart is
<kevin4942941> what?  that's weird
<kevin4942941> so like Putin is her boyfriend?
<iheartubuntu> i tihnk she worked for them all along, its just out in the open now
<iheartubuntu> i wonder how russia is going to transition to ubuntu coming soon.. what is it 2012? or 2014?
<iheartubuntu> thats a big task
<iheartubuntu> most russians in russia i know have never even seen ubuntu
<kevin4942941> it's easy to learn imho
<kevin4942941> but it does have some limitations
<iheartubuntu> even the SysAdmins there dont use ubuntu. everything is WinXP stuff
<iheartubuntu> and everything is pi-rat-ed there
<iheartubuntu> i mean everything
<kevin4942941> "everything"?  that sounds crazy
<iheartubuntu> i bought the entire Beatles collection for $1
 * iheartubuntu thinks it was legal there tho
<kevin4942941> i've used russian websites to buy music
<kevin4942941> i thought it was legal
<kevin4942941> and yeah, it was that inexpensive
<iheartubuntu> so for russia to switch to ubuntu is going to be HUGE
<iheartubuntu> and i think it will help the country too
<kdub> i think they're just switching to linux b/c they don't trust american microsoft
 * kdub doesn't either :)
<iheartubuntu> russia is changing and the old mindset of copying things will dissappear eventually if OS and software is free
<iheartubuntu> tons of great programmers there too
<kevin4942941> more competition
<kdub> at the highest levels of the descision though, i'm sure there was concern about MS/CIA backdoors
<kevin4942941> i just read a tweet from _capitalism_ about how there are 800 chinese that can do my job for me
<iheartubuntu> tons of russian games for WinXP ive seen there that ive never seen here... so once russia switches to open source i bet we'll have an influx of new free software and games. games!
<kevin4942941> i'm not sure why every country doesn't have their own linux o.s.
<kdub> iheartubuntu: thats true, should be good!
<kevin4942941> well, every industrialized country
<iheartubuntu> arent the facebook and google founders russian?
<iheartubuntu> dont know if they were born there tho.
<iheartubuntu> but everyone i met there is like 10x smarter than myself.
<iheartubuntu> not uhhhhh saying im not smart or anything :)
<kevin4942941> Zuckerberg is russian?
<iheartubuntu> i dont know
<kevin4942941> Serge Brin and Larry Page?
<kevin4942941> Serge Brin may be a russian name
<kdub> sergei is russian born
<kevin4942941> dang, and he went to Stanford
<kdub> larry was michigan born like me :D
<kdub> and U-Michigan
<kevin4942941> all right kdub, you went to U-Michigan like Larry Page, you can be captain for a day
<iheartubuntu> so i think that will be pretty good once russia makes the move.
<kevin4942941> o captain my captain
<kdub> sweet, captain of the boat!
<kevin4942941> i'll need a cutlass captain, there may be a mutiny
<kevin4942941> might i propose a first mate, me.
<iheartubuntu> im trying to get my 20 yo inlaw to switch to ubuntu. he is stuck on winxp and he wont move because he is a gamer. and no incentive for him to switch with games costing a buck
<kevin4942941> captain, heavy is the head that wears the crown...or...captain hat as it were
<kevin4942941> yeah i looked up u michigan stats, their graduation rates were on par with UCLA and Cal Tech
<kevin4942941> i should've took my education more seriously in high school, but i really didn't like high school much.
<kevin4942941> i didn't start enjoying college really until recently
<kevin4942941> yeah, you can't really be lazy and use ubuntu
<akk> Gaming is probably one use case where Linux isn't quite ready yet.
<kevin4942941> it's too bad, since it's the recruitment tool
<akk> Telling people to stop playing the games they like and play different games isn't a convincing argument.
<kevin4942941> i was thinking of pressed cd's had a graphic of a meerkat, lynx, narwhal, etc. it might be possible to get more young people interested
<kevin4942941> or even to play their games in wine
<kevin4942941> i mean, i know there is a performance hit
<kevin4942941> it may not matter on some systems though
<kevin4942941> just use more power
<kdub> akk: linux is as ready as any other system for games, in terms of capability
<kdub> investment from publishers, not so much
<akk> kdub: I'm not a 3D programmer, but what I hear is that the 3D APIs are awful and it's hard to make them work reliably.
<kdub> you probably heard that from the direct 3d crowd, who is stubborn about using anything opengl
<akk> kdub: Someone from Mozilla, I think it was, had an article recently about how web 3d didn't work right on linux except on certain nvidia cards.
 * kdub writes graphics cards for a living :( 
<kevin4942941> o captain my captain
<kdub> X is something of a mess, wayland is pretty cool
<kevin4942941> i wonder what 3d api WoW uses
<kevin4942941> i doubt direct 3d since there is a mac version
<akk> darn, I can't find the article. It was just a week or two ago.
<kevin4942941> i wonder why the mac version wouldn't work on linux...
<kevin4942941> it would have to be compiled :|
<kevin4942941> i think...
<kdub> there's all sorts of architectural things that might have to change between mac & linux that would make it tough
<akk> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/216874/firefox_4_beta_9_gives_short_shrift_to_linux_users.html
<akk> "We tried enabling OpenGL on Linux, and discovered that most Linux drivers are so disastrously buggy (think âcrash the X server at the drop of a hat, and paint incorrectly the rest of the time' buggy) that we had to disable it for now,"
<kevin4942941> ah, right the Mac doesn't use the linux kernel
<akk> and that was from Boris Zbarsky, who has been a huge and untiring linux advocate at mozilla for about a decade
<kevin4942941> what was i thinking
 * kevin4942941 walks the plank
<akk> When Boris says something like that, I pay attention.
<kdub> i don't think thats a fair article
<kevin4942941> the funny thing is, i tend to think in terms of 2d games lately.  i mean warcraft 2 is 2d, it is still a fun game to play for me
<kevin4942941> starcraft also
<akk> kdub: What's wrong with it?
<kdub> i guess my anecdotal experience conflicts with his, so i don't like it
<akk> I know I've had huge problems getting google earth to work under Linux, but that could just mean that google hasn't bothered to make it work.
<kdub> the big headache is how drivers are split up
<akk> What graphics cards do you use/develop for, kdub?
<akk> I know I've had trouble with several older ATIs and several Intel graphics chips (the newest Intels seem better).
<kevin4942941> i wonder if it's because there are so many video cards and not enough developers writing open source drivers for them
<kevin4942941> i mean, i know drivers are often used for hardware that haven't been specifically written for it
<kevin4942941> like my intel g960/965, it uses the i915 driver, which may not be optimal
<kdub> akk: mobile ones, not the usual suspects
<kevin4942941> i guess it could have some kind of "unified driver architecture" and i wonder if that implies that the drivers for all architectures are included in a single "package"
<kevin4942941> kdub: who makes mobile graphics chips?
<kevin4942941> hmm, i thought the ati cards were working well with open source drivers
<kevin4942941> looks like toshiba, nvidia...perhaps ati
<kevin4942941> arm
<iheartubuntu> does anyone know where the MBR is stored? on the hard drive or ram or ??
<akk> It's the first part of the disk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record
<iheartubuntu> so formatting should wipe it
<iheartubuntu> im getting some low memory errors and i think its from some info on the mbr, i was just going to format the HD and reinstall ubuntu
<akk> Installing will overwrite the mbr if you tell the installer to install grub2 to the mbr.
<akk> Partitioning in the installer won't.
<iheartubuntu> i cant even get into this drive right now using an ubuntu disc. im using parted magic on ultimate rescue disc... after backing up the data i was going to format the hard drive from parted magic and then reboot and try to install ubuntu with a fresh drive
<iheartubuntu> for some reason im unable to boot a ubuntu livecd
<iheartubuntu> but can use the rescue disc
<kevin4942941> that is kind of strange
<kevin4942941> i've never used a rescue disc
<kevin4942941> well, i used a rescue disc awhile back to change a windows passwd i forgot
<kevin4942941> that was back when i was using windows though
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: formatting does not touch the MBR at all.
<iheartubuntu> how do i touch the mrb then
<iheartubuntu> i wonder why the ubuntu disc hangs, but a rescue disc (linux) boots into it fine
<iheartubuntu> im going to try a 10.04 disc instead of 10.10
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: use a partitioning tool like Disk Utility (palimpset) or GNOME Partition Editor.
<kevin4942941> iheartubuntu: different kernel versions?
<nhaines> The MBR has absolutely nothing to do with memory.  Is there a specific reason you suspect the MBR?
<kevin4942941> i thought you were using gparted iheartubuntu
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: to me that literally sounds like someone saying "I'm getting bad reception on my TV.  I think it's from some info in the TV Guide listings."
<nhaines> Except maybe it's bad radio reception because of the TV Guide listings.  That sounds like a better analogy.
 * akk agrees with nhaines
<iheartubuntu> i was getting a low memory error
<akk> And why do you think that points to an mbr problem?
<kevin4942941> to me, i think the analogy is uncalled for.
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: sounds like you don't have enough memory then.  How much RAM is in the system?
<iheartubuntu> someplace on the internets i read about changing something in the boot record
<iheartubuntu> 1GB maxed out
<akk> It might be a bad RAM chip -- when I see memory errors I usually try running memtest first.
<iheartubuntu> this computer ran fine with 10.04
<nhaines> The MBR just defines the way the disk is partitioned.
<iheartubuntu> after upgrade to 10.10 i was getting low mem error
<iheartubuntu> "memory corruption detected in low memory"
<nhaines> That's not an out-of-memory error, that's a memory corruption error.
<nhaines> Run memtest to see if it can narrow it down to a specific DIMM, then toss that DIMM and replace the memory in the computer.
<iheartubuntu> but strangely i didnt have the error before the upgrade
<nhaines> Where does the MBR come in?
<kevin4942941> hopefully it's not a bug in 10.10 the caused the memory problem
<iheartubuntu> nhaines... i have no idea
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: coincidence is not causation.  :)
<iheartubuntu> something i read
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: I'd love a link to that page or article.
<kevin4942941> i'm just paranoid after my battery, and i heard there's a bug that is borking ssds in #ubuntu-beginners and #ubuntu-nz
<iheartubuntu> cannot find a page. i had so many open last night. there was a bug or two filed about this, but i dont think it was version specific
<kevin4942941> is it a system76 system iheartubuntu?
<iheartubuntu> no, an old sony viao
<kevin4942941> i am wondering because i am thinking hardware that doesn't have linux in mind should be avoided like the plague if at all possible
<kevin4942941> i had a vaio at an old job.  nice little 14" notebook
<iheartubuntu> my dad just bought a brand new slimline gateway for $500 on the weekend. it is AWESOME with ubuntu
<akk> I've had several nice vaios.
<iheartubuntu> this viao is pretty old :) like 2002
<akk> Only buying from linux-friendly companies is great in principle, but they're all so small that you don't get much selection.
<iheartubuntu> a P4 2.40ghtz
<akk> If they don't have what you're looking for, you have to look elsewhere.
<kevin4942941> gateway is weird, i don't know why i've heard such good things about them
<iheartubuntu> after i stopped building my own computers ive bought only gateway. never a prob.
<kevin4942941> i wonder, why they would any better, perhaps kernel hackers buy gateways
<iheartubuntu> all my gateways with ubuntu work great
<iheartubuntu> 2 old laptops and 2 newer desktops
<kevin4942941> when i bought my toshiba i assumed linux worked awesome on everything
<nhaines> No hardware is really made with Linux in mind.  As long as it's standards compliant it should be fine.
<kevin4942941> i would have spent a little more for hardware that is more compatible
<akk> Zeareason is made with linux in mind ... at least for some models, Cathy went to Taiwan and had machines explicitly speced.
<akk> (specced? specked?)
<kevin4942941> i wonder why you believe this nhaines
<kevin4942941> specced i guess
<nhaines> kevin4942941: because it's true.
<kevin4942941> weird
<kevin4942941> specification doesn't have a k
<akk> It doesn't have two cs either, though. :)
<kevin4942941> akk just pointed out an example where it is not
<nhaines> akk: I think it's more likely she went and had hardware built with specific chipsets in mind.
<kevin4942941> i know, i was going to say speced, or perhaps spec'ed
<nhaines> kevin4942941: I don't think she did.
<akk> no apostrophes for plurals, ick
<akk> nhaines: What's the difference between specing a chipset and specing other hardware in the machine?
<kevin4942941> yeah, that's why i went with specced
<akk> Seems like what matters is that the machine is designed (parts chosen) with linux compatibility in mind.
<nhaines> akk: nothing, really, and that's why I don't think there's a significant difference.
<kevin4942941> iow, it isn't true that some hardware isn't built with linux in mind
<nhaines> akk: the value add is that Kathy did the work for you.  Which is way awesome and totally worth it.  :)
<kevin4942941> i wouldn't be surprised if hardware specs aren't collaborated with software developers in the linux community
<kevin4942941> sony could simply be working closer with microsoft than with linux developers, i suspect that's what happened with my toshiba
<kevin4942941> and considering the latest windows ads...
<kevin4942941> i'm lucky it works as good as it does
<akk> Sony is pretty evil. I love my Vaios but I don't like the company much.
<akk> They're even more MS-centric than most companies, and also make repair and parts difficult.
<nhaines> The only hardware I know that was built with Linux in mind was the HDTV 5000 card I bought.
<iheartubuntu> so for some STRANGE reason, 10.04 finally booted into the live disc after sitting for 20 minutes
<iheartubuntu> im attempting to install it now. but i wonder if there is an underlying memory problem
<akk> nhaines: "built" meaning chips designed from the silicon level, not just assembling components into a consumer product?
<kevin4942941> i would do a memtest from the livecd
<iheartubuntu> i did a mem test sunday for about 45 minutes and had no errors
<nhaines> akk: in this case, more like "we specced it out and wrote Free Linux drivers, but couldn't be bothered to write Windows ones."
<kevin4942941> the corrupt memory error would freak me out enough to run one iheartubuntu
<iheartubuntu> i was also getting the same error with 500mb ram installed (two different chips)
<kevin4942941> but you're probably more of a risk taker than i am
<akk> Ah, built meaning the company that built the silicon also wrote drivers. Gotcha.
<akk> Intel writes drivers for some of their hardware (though sadly, the linux drivers are usually inferior to the windows ones).
<kevin4942941> as more tech is outsource to india and china, perhaps that will change
<akk> I've been buying machines with Intel hardware lately for that reason, hoping they'll run linux better (and they do, but not entirely without glitches).
<kevin4942941> i would think AMD would run better
<nhaines> Here's another example.  None of Western Digital's hard drives are supported by the company in Linux.
<kevin4942941> i mean, they right drivers for the ati cards
<nhaines> But they're ATA-compliant and run beautifully.
<akk> It would be great if all hardware followed specs as well as hard drives.
<akk> Can you imagine, a generic video card driver where you could take any video card and everything would just work?
<kevin4942941> well, that's probably not really "support".  that probably just means people can't call you guys for software support
<iheartubuntu> so doing some more google searches on my low mem error... sounds like i could have edited the boot options to increase memory error setting
<nhaines> This is where, for the permanent Google record, I state that I work for Western Digital, however the opinions expressed on this topic are my own and do not reflect the opinions of Western Digital.
<akk> Or a wi-fi card standard that every wi-fi chipset followed? <wistful sigh>
<iheartubuntu> i'll do that if i still have install probs
<nhaines> akk: that's called VESA.  ;)
<kdub> akk: thats somewhat of a gross oversimplification of graphics stacks
<kevin4942941> i wonder about the fujitsu drive that used to be in this system
<kevin4942941> it was a little flaky
<nhaines> kevin4942941: we'll help make sure your drive is physically installed and jumpered correctly and that's it.
<akk> nhaines: uh, yeah :)
<kevin4942941> iheartubuntu: it's a corrupt memory error, now low memory...though i guess i can see your point.  "this segment of memory is corrupt, therefore you have less memory now"
<kevin4942941> perhaps that's what youre thinking
<kevin4942941> dang...i can't type
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: "low memory" means the first 640K built into the motherboard.
<kevin4942941> the fingers have a mind of their own
<akk> iheartubuntu told us the error message, "memory corruption detected in low memory"
<akk> The "low" doesn't mean "out of memory", it means "low memory addresses"
<iheartubuntu> ok i found this at the bottom of the bug... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/324894/
<kevin4942941> i didn't read that.  i just thought it was "memory corruption detected"
<kevin4942941> empathy doesn't have logs :(
<iheartubuntu> empathy has logs
<kevin4942941> let me search for them
<iheartubuntu> under view
<iheartubuntu> prievious conversations
<iheartubuntu> it even has search
<iheartubuntu> so if you said "dick tracy" 17 days ago it will find it
<kevin4942941> dang i was hoping i could use grep :|
<kevin4942941> cool, thanks iheartubuntu i was looking for a log file in ~/
<kevin4942941> it is kind of nice to have more expressive emoticons too
<iheartubuntu> i am getting more into just using what ubuntu offers. empathy instead of pidgin. ubuntuone instead of dropbox, etc
<kevin4942941> hmmm, so wayland isn't going to be supported by nvidia, that narrows hardware down
<iheartubuntu> empathy matches gwibber too IMO and they all work well with the indicator too
<kevin4942941> i wonder if the future is just going to be integrated hardware companies like apple, and microsoft to an extent
<kevin4942941> considering they have their xbox, why they don't just sell pc's...
<kevin4942941> hmmm, maybe they just have a deal with toshiba, and perhaps sony
<kevin4942941> yeah, i don't like gwibber
<kdub> wayland wont have to "be supported" by nvidia, nvidia already supports DRI
<akk> I was going to ask whether that was any different from nvidia's past support of X.
<kevin4942941> oh gods...that makes no sense kdub
<kevin4942941> i'll look up DRI
<akk> kdub: DRI is standard enough that wayland won't need separate drivers for different cards?
<nhaines> kevin4942941: you don't think what kdub said makes any sense but you don't know what DRI is?
<kdub> krh thought about what the driver developers would do, and i'm pretty sure DRI is the only requisite for wayland
<kevin4942941> nbaines:  i don't see what the problem is, aside from own ignorance, which i already acknowledged
<kdub> its an exciting time for graphics
<iheartubuntu> i like gwibber. hotot is pretty nice too
<kevin4942941> but if you're just doing it to stroke your own ego nhaines...then *pat* *pat* *pat*
<kevin4942941> gwibber wasn't getting feeds in, so i just use twitter in a pinned tab
<kevin4942941> DRI = dopamine reuptake inhibitor
<kevin4942941> :P
<kevin4942941> i use DRI for my depression
<nhaines> kevin4942941: yes, my confusion at your statement (paraphrased "I claim kdub's assertion is logically deficient, by the way I don't know what he said") is to stroke my ego.
<nhaines> Good call.  That makes even more sense.
<kevin4942941> nbaines (sic):  you don't understand my reference point.  you are thinking i am saying his words were logically deficient absolutely, i never made such a claim, that is your interpretation of it.  for clarification, it was supposed to be taken as "it doesn't make sense to me" which isn't a stain on kdub's character, but my own.  but thank you for trying to make me feel like a bigger ass than i already am.
<kevin4942941> and as sarcasm oftentimes doesn't come across text, i am not really thankful.
<nhaines> kevin4942941: I'm generally content if people feel like as much of an ass as they actually are.
<kevin4942941> now i'm going to do some tai chi, for some reason i'm feeling bad vibes dude
<nhaines> Although I don't usually consider it my job to catalyze that.
<nhaines> On a mostly unrelated note, I could really use some chai tea.
<kevin4942941> and yet you do it so well
<kevin4942941> you probably don't consider it your job, because you aren't getting paid for it
<nhaines> kevin4942941: you'd probably find that you'd get less "bad vibes" by not reading malice into things said in IRC.
<pleia2> +1
<kevin4942941> nhaines:  you should take your own advice
<nhaines> kevin4942941: I always do.
<nhaines> kevin4942941: on the other hand, I do get annoyed when people assume the worst and then attack me for it.  I usually don't have a lot of time for that.
<kevin4942941> nhaines:  so you say
<nhaines> kevin4942941: I was surprised at what you said and asked you to clarify, and you said I made you feel like a bigger ass than you usually do.
<kevin4942941> there was no attack on my part, just defense
<pleia2> kevin4942941: some tai chi sounds like a good idea :)
<akk> kevin4942941: "stroke your own ego" wasn't an attack?
<akk> Came across as one.
<kevin4942941> i suppose i should just let him say what he wants
<nhaines> kevin4942941: I actually was just hoping for some kind of clarification.  I'm sorry if it came across as an attack.
<kevin4942941> i consider kdub a friend nhaines, so you saying i am criticizing his logic i didn't take too kindly to
<kevin4942941> especially since it was false
<nhaines> kevin4942941: it was a question, not an assertion.
<akk> From a third party view, it looked like there was some attacking/insulting on both sides.
 * nhaines doesn't let his friends get away with bad logic.
<kdub> its all good everyone :)
 * iheartubuntu whips out his violin. dont shoot me since ive never played one.
<akk> Maybe we should all make up and try to clear up the tech misunderstanding. :)
<erichammond> I'd like to welcome everybody to the Ubuntu community :) http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
 * kevin4942941 tries to treat his friends with kindness
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: the round part goes under your chin.  :)
<iheartubuntu> ohh thats how you do it. i had it on my foot like a hillbilly
<kevin4942941> i played violin, not well mind you
<iheartubuntu> ardour is the next violin
 * akk has a sony laptop named vaiolin, does that count?
<kevin4942941> no kidding, iheartubuntu
<iheartubuntu> truce everyone
<iheartubuntu> its 5pm someplace
<iheartubuntu> (isnt that a song?)
 * kevin4942941 has no clue
<kevin4942941> do you want the truth or the marketing propaganda?
<kevin4942941> :D
<kevin4942941> truth is, i frequently have no clue.  the upsell is, i make *millions* of Julian fries!
<kdub> back to wayland though :) (hopefully not digging anything back up)
<kevin4942941> i couldn't really find anything on DRI
<kevin4942941> oh yeah, would you buy an nvidia card?  or recommend an nvidia card to a friend for wayland?
<kevin4942941> my initial reaction is no, i mean, just based on them not "supporting" it officially, according to wikipedia
 * akk wonders what kind of graphics chips the wayland developers use
<kdub> X needs a lot of X-specific mechanisms to let applications run in an X environment with openGL
<akk> (developers plural? I think I read somewhere that it's just one person)
<kdub> its largely krh
<kdub> but intel is the recommended atm
<akk> Does it matter which intel? or will all of them work pretty comparably? (subject to limitations in capabilities, of course)
<kevin4942941> i'm wondering if i could find an apprenticeship somewhere.  it would be cool to be able to shadow one of these guys.
<kevin4942941> assuming they didn't find me annoying
<kdub> akk: i've been trying to get it running with my GMA965, should be able to work
<kevin4942941> it's a nice day out in so cal
<kdub> youtube keeps getting in the way though
<akk> kdub: Great -- my laptop's something near that, so hopefully it will work too.
<akk> youtube because of getting the adobe flash plugin to run?
<kdub> no, just watching videos and not doing work when I'm home :)
<kevin4942941> i have gm965/gl960
<akk> oh, haha
<kevin4942941> i wonder what you're watching on youtube that is so interesting
<kevin4942941> i can't even watch the daily show anymore :(
<kevin4942941> i'm tired of their grey goose commercials
<kdub> the cool thing about wayland though is that every application has really powerful and flexible access to what it renders
<kevin4942941> that's an issue of content, not youtubeness
<kevin4942941> oh yeah, i watched some noam chomsky stuff that was interesting on youtube
<akk> I'll miss xlib a little (I have quite a few xlib programs) but I'll cope, and rewrite, assuming it offers a simple drawing API.
<akk> I do fear the window manager situation, though, haven't seen anything written about that.
<kevin4942941> i'm wondering if wayland uses code from X, or if it's a complete rewrite
<kdub> its not a rewrite of X at all
<kdub> which, is whats so cool
<kevin4942941> so it stands alone
<kdub> right, and ubuntu version #1 will mostly still be X driven while everybody catches up
<kdub> sorry
<kevin4942941> or it's a standalone
<kevin4942941> that's just crazy to me
<kdub> well, with the plans ive seen for ubuntu, the first version will run wayland on the baremetal and still run an xserver as a wayland client
<akk> Wow, implementing X inside wayland?
<nhaines> As long as the integration is good, that should be an excellent way to transition.
<akk> I guess that's a good migration scheme, but it sounds like a lot of extra work.
<nhaines> akk: they said it like it wasn't a lot of extra work.  :)
<kevin4942941> have you looked at the source kdub?
<kdub> its not that much, at the end of the day, X needs is a buffer to render to and wayland provides that
<akk> I'd guess this is just the basic X protocol, and not all the elaborate details about modeswitching and GL windows and things.
<kevin4942941> gotta' go pick up the nephews
<akk> (I hope ... sure would be great to see all that stuff go away!)
<kdub> thats the plan
<nhaines> Unity with a maximized GNOME Terminal and byobu is my new definition of happiness.
<nhaines> If they get the new Ayatana-style scrollbars into natty that'd be even better.  Not in terms of UI freeze better, though.  :P
<pleia2> I haven't even looked at byobu, screen is so simple and "works fine" :)
 * crashsystems is loving 11.04
<akk> Only thing I don't like about screen is that it sometimes decides its size is 80x24
<akk> and then no act of god besides restarting will get it out of that mode
<akk> (I use it to talk to plug computers over a serial line, and their busybox vi causes this, so once you've edited anything, you're forever stuck at 24 lines)
<nhaines> pleia2: byobu makes screen a lot more useful when you're on a remote terminal.  Tells you the host and a lot of system stats.  :)
<pleia2> ah, interesting
<nhaines> pleia2: http://ubuntuone.com/p/k4g/
<kevin4942941> i wanted to apologize to the channel, that whole conflict could have been avoided had i chosen my words more carefully from the beginning.
<kevin4942941> i'll be more careful
<pleia2> thank you kevin4942941
<iheartubuntu> ... yah and that when i split my pants and had to walk around Tijuana with my underwear showing the whole day! hahaaa!
<iheartubuntu> ohhh
<iheartubuntu> whoops
<iheartubuntu> wrong chat box
 * iheartubuntu EMBARRASSED
<pleia2> hahahaha
<pleia2> iheartubuntu++
 * iheartubuntu has turned a dark shade of Ubuntu Eggplant
<iheartubuntu> wow. beer time.
<pleia2> isn't that the kind of thing that's supposed to happen in Tijuana?
<iheartubuntu> not by accident :)
<pleia2> hehe
<iheartubuntu> it was an old pair of pants
<iheartubuntu> i didnt notice my pants were COMPLETELY split down the center until i looked down while sitting at a bullfight.
<pleia2> nice one
<iheartubuntu> i topped wearing butt huggers from that day forward
<iheartubuntu> stopped
<iheartubuntu> never forget that one
<iheartubuntu> no photos thankfully
<pleia2> hehe
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: at a bullfight?  Just be glad you weren't wearing red boxers!
<pleia2> lol
<nhaines> I'm trying to think whether or not the new Ubuntu logo for the Unity launcher makes me think differently about the button.
<nhaines> Or feel differently, rather.
<nhaines> I guess it looks more button-like because of the proxmity to the window controls.
<iheartubuntu> i tried running 11.04 from a live disc last night and it had all sorts of errors when it booted up. not fun. shut it down and went to bed.
<iheartubuntu> nhaines - no but my face was red
<iheartubuntu> it was not a good day for a very shy 14 yo boy :)
<iheartubuntu> sure was breezy and i couldnt figure out why
<akk> They probably all thought you were demonstrating a new cutting-edge fashion
<akk> like Madonna
<iheartubuntu> "like a virgin" would have been a fitting song
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-03-30
<KB1JWQ> iheartubuntu: Yeah, I've had issues getting 11.04 to behave in an OpenVZ container, I've had to tweak the heck out of my build scripts thus far.
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: if  you're going to do something like that, may as well do it in a foreign country anyway.  :)
<iheartubuntu> :D
<kevin4942941> what happens in some other city than your own, stays in some other city than your own...unless you feel like talking about it
<nhaines> I like this one.  http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?currency=USD&products_id=828
<akk> ubuntu uses pantone colors? 8-|
<nhaines> akk: well, the branding guidelines and brandmarks do specify Pantone colors.
<kevin4942941> anybody want to try the game i programmed?
<kevin6567767> i'm not sure why i'm a guest on freenode but not on undernet
<kevin6567767> weird
<kevin6567767> idea!
<Guest460372> huh, i think it's fixed
<Guest460372> arg
<iheartubuntu> do the numbers signify anything?
<iheartubuntu> how to open a potato chip bag in the library very quietly? :)
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: just do it quickly :)
<iheartubuntu> yes, i would have to buy the bag made out of kevlar
<iheartubuntu> first photo of mercury from orbit http://www.space.com/11254-nasa-photos-mercury-orbit-messenger-spacecraft.html
<iheartubuntu> i wonder how long it took to send the image
<iheartubuntu> An interesting read on being "Happy or Right." http://mhall119.com/2011/03/happy-vs-right/
<iheartubuntu> akk, did you see: first photo of mercury from orbit http://www.space.com/11254-nasa-photos-mercury-orbit-messenger-spacecraft.html
<akk> I did! Very good resolution already!
<iheartubuntu> any idea how long it took to beam the images?
<akk> No, don't know (good question, though). I know spacecraft links are usually pretty slow -- might be an hour or several.
<akk> http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1103/17messenger/ has some good details
<akk> Several powerpc processors, data rates between 104kbps and 9.9bps (right, no k in there) depending on distance.
<akk> They're nearly at opposition (as close as they get) now, so data rate should be near the top of that range.
<kevin5949173> iheartubuntu: cool link on "happy vs right"
<akk> I'm with mhall on that.
<kevin5949173> oh, he had an opinion?
<akk> I thought the article was pretty clear on that. You didn't?
<kevin5949173> oh yeah, "if i'm wrong point it out if i'm factually or provably wrong"
<akk> "I came to the conclusion that Iâd rather be right than happy." That seems very clear.
<akk> I've known people who lived in fantasy worlds ... I wouldn't want to be them, and in the end they didn't end up happy because too many things clashed.
<kevin5949173> yeah, but then he says "if i'm wrong, tell me"
<kevin5949173> i think that threw me off...that is neither right or happy
<kevin5949173> it could be argued everyone lives in a fantasy world
<kevin5949173> death for example
<akk> "If I'm wrong, tell me" means if you're discussing something with him (not necessarily that topic) and he's wrong, he wants to be corrected
<kevin5949173> but i see your point...too much fantasy is bad...but fantasy keep it interesting
<akk> because he won't be happy staying wrong.
<akk> He wants to be shown the details that show he's wrong, if he is.
<kevin5949173> if he is capable of being happy, sure, i would agree
<kevin5949173> i mean, there are probably some terrible things one could be told, and upon hearing them, only a deluded fool would stay happy
<akk> Yes, it's true. There are occasionally things one is better off not knowing.
<kevin5949173> unless they would find out anyway, it may be better to know asap
<kevin5949173> but then it's like predestination...or is the future changeable
<kevin5949173> anyway, yeah, i agree with him
<akk> I'm not sure I necessarily need to be told every true-but-depressing fact in the world
<kevin5949173> i do, i want to see things as they are...maybe there's something that can be done
<akk> but if I'm spouting information that's provably wrong, I definitely want to be corrected (hopefully politely).
<akk> Two different issues.
<kevin5949173> they are interconnected
<kevin5949173> like everything
<akk> sure, but that doesn't mean the answer is necessarily the same for both.
<kevin5949173> i am not following you on the different issues, i thought you were talking about "something being done (hope)" and "seeing things as they are"
<akk> Probably time to drop this. We're way off topic, and I don't think I could be any clearer on my position anyway (and I thought mhall was very clear too).
<kevin5949173> hehe okay
<kevin5949173> why did you laugh, moron?
<kevin5949173> i don't know!  i just typed whatever!
 * kevin5949173 sings a lullaby
 * kdub does battle with graphics stack
<pleia2> slick666: hey!
<slick666> lol
<slick666> how goes it
<pleia2> good :) in town soon?
<slick666> well I'm in Cali right now but down in SoCal
<pleia2> cool
<slick666> I'll be in your nexk of the woods about a week from now
<slick666> I was hoping there would be a Global Jam event happening down here in LA but it doesn't look like there is anything going on
<slick666> you guys have plans up there in the bay area?
<pleia2> yeah, jono is doing one near his place on friday, jdeslip and I are hosting one in berkeley on sunday
<slick666> you planning on going to any?
<pleia2> just the one in berkeley, have to work on friday
<pleia2> we'll be doing xubuntu iso testing!
 * pleia2 picked up a couple usb sticks today
<slick666> nice
<slick666> cool, what did you get for USB drives?
<pleia2> just a couple 4G sticks to do live iso testing on netbooks
<slick666> nice
<slick666> your doing Xubuntu testing with them?
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> also, we're doing it at a pizzeria, yay pizza!
<slick666> lol, nice
<slick666> have you guys been looking at Lubuntu?
<pleia2> I haven't tried it yet
<slick666> its been a few months since I've looked
<slick666> it claims to be smaller that xubuntu after it's been de-ubuntu-ified
<pleia2> yeah, xubuntu these days tends to be almost as heavy as gnome out of the box
<pleia2> it's far more customizable though, so that's the major reason I use it
<slick666> I've been a big fan
<slick666> but I tend to lighten it up after I get it going
<pleia2> yeah, same
<pleia2> http://princessleia.com/images/MyImages/screen/xubuntu_desktop_03202011.jpg is my netbook
<pleia2> desktop is similar
<slick666> sweet
<pleia2> all deubuntuified ;)
<slick666> I've been trying the GLX dock
<pleia2> I've been quite happy with the panel
<slick666> nice
<slick666> I'll shoot you a e-mail when I get to town
<pleia2> sounds good :)
<slick666> good luck with the xubuntu testing
<pleia2> thanks!
<slick666> I'll let you know if I find anything in LA
<pleia2> hope you have a nice time in socal
<slick666> the weather is way better than KC so I call it a sucess :D
<slick666> later liz
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> later :)
<kevin5949173> hmmm, nothing in so cal, i'd do something, even if it was just at a local coffee shop, but that weekend isn't good for me.  friend's birthday, potential girlfriend
<kevin5949173> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9exdLBS6Y7A&feature=player_embedded video on the tipitaka
<kevin5949173> "mind more reliable than a book if used properly"
<slick666> yea I understand that
<slick666> I'll be hanging out in Santa Monica this weekend
<slick666> so maybe I'll shot this question to the mailing list
<kevin5949173> oh, dang it, sorry, that video was for another channel
<slick666> I was wondering how it related to the prevous conversation
<kevin5949173> again, my apologies
<kdub> i like squeeze's installer
<pleia2> kdub: gui or cli?
<pleia2> I haven't tried the gui one
<nhaines> Ooh, when did Debian get a graphical installer?
<pleia2> lenny
<pleia2> I don't know if they changed it at all for squeeze, I never used it for lenny either :)
<nhaines> :)
<kdub> pleia2: ncurses is the only real way :D
<kdub> i just liked the rocketship picture on the selection menu
<pleia2> I'm not really a fan, I have to give this installer to customers, it looks a bit cutesy :\
<pleia2> I mean, personally - woo cute! but professionally, not so much
<pleia2> although, the other day I was able to identify whether they had to right iso (they had a bunch of old burned isos around) by asking if there was a spaceship on the screen :)
<nhaines> :D
<iheartubuntu> For those that placed an Ubuntu Store order with me recently, I was just alerted that the package was delivered, so all items will go out tomorrow and Friday.
<nhaines> kdub: just read your announcement.  That's next month!
<nhaines> ;)
 * kdub is always anxious for the 1st so my budget rolls over and i can buy new things. wishful thinking
<nhaines> My budget theoretically works that way, too.  :)
<iheartubuntu> WOW - the Ubuntu Mouse is visually delicious :)
<gmendoza> good afternoon
<gmendoza> :-)
<kdub> iheartubuntu: i read that as "ubuntu moose"...
<iheartubuntu> what about Ubuntu Mousse
<iheartubuntu> WAIT... arent there moose in MI?
<kdub> the upper peninsula has them
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-03-31
<iheartubuntu> wow, 88*F here in socal
<pleia2> 72 here
<pleia2> it's really beautiful
<iheartubuntu> the snow on mt. baldy is going to melt QUICK
 * iheartubuntu needs beer -- badly!
<kevin5949173> mi abuela has a robot cat.  it purrs
<kevin5949173> literally
<kevin5949173> iheartubuntu: why?
<iheartubuntu> why?
<kevin5949173> yeah, why do you need beer
<iheartubuntu> why not should be the question :)
<kevin5949173> i used to have a flask
<kevin5949173> i didn't put beer in it
<kevin5949173> it didn't help with tasks / but it sure made me a lunatic
<iheartubuntu> ( (( really?? )) )
<kevin5949173> yes to the flask, no to the lunacy
<kevin5949173> rats, i should have told him "basically"
<DarkwingDuck> This feels strange
<sn9> ?
<akk> pleia2: LOL @ Panchromatic Villa
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> autocorrect is great
<akk> It could be one of those places that uses colored/flavored tortillas, plus red or green chile ... :)
<pleia2> lol
<iheartubuntu> my sister upgraded her iphone and now ubuntu wont connect to it. apparently ubuntu wants to do something provacative, because the error message states "Ubuntu wants to mount Denise but is unable to"
<sn9> iheartubuntu: there's a ppa that fixes that
<iheartubuntu> oh there is?
<sn9> yes
<akk> What's the issue? unsupported filesystem type?
<iheartubuntu> thanks, i will have to check for it
<iheartubuntu> got it working thanks sn9!
<sn9> yw
<nhaines> And thus the solution to the iPhone problem was lost forever.
<pleia2> nah, he blogged about it
<pleia2> it's on our planet :)
<nhaines> pleia2: good!  :)
<pleia2> for the sake of logs: http://www.iheartubuntu.com/2011/03/ubuntu-iphone-fix-for-upgrades-to-os-4x.html
<nhaines> The default set of launcher icons in Unity (now that we're nearly at beta) is *much* nicer than it used to be.  :)
 * pleia2 refreshes email for beta announcement
<pleia2> will unity run from a livecd?
<nhaines> Right now it's [Home, Firefox, Writer, Calc, Impress, Ubuntu Software Center, U1 Control Panel, Workplace switcher, file lens, application lens]
<nhaines> It will if you have a blessed ATI or Intel card... nvidia not so much.  But to my delight, it *does* run on my desktop computer's video card once it's installed and the proprietary driver is installed.  :)
 * pleia2 haz blessed ATI card
<pleia2> I'll have to give it a try
<nhaines> Now if they just fix the broken icon and squished panel during install it'll be unstoppable.
<pleia2> a fix for this would be nice too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/739812
<pleia2> for tablets
<pleia2> but tablet support has gotten increasingly better throughout the cycle
<nhaines> Hm, that's important.  :(
<pleia2> yeah
<jono> has anyone seen MarkDude around?
<pleia2> jono: not in a week, a few people have emailed and left voicemails, no reply yet AFAIK
<sn9> his at&t mailbox is full
<pleia2> he was pretty busy with life stuff last week, so I'm hoping he's just busy
<jono> pleia2, that's concerning
<sn9> very
<pleia2> I mentioned it to grantbow last night, he said he'd try to call him too
<sn9> grantbow doesn't live that far; he can go check
<sn9> unless someone wants to try poking his grandmother on facebook
<jono> just tried calling, no answer
<sn9> duh
<sn9> maybe his phone bought it
<sn9> it was always crapping out
<iheartubuntu> i have not seen markdude since shortly after scale
<iheartubuntu> he was in here a few times a week or two ago
<iheartubuntu> had a nice chat with him and havent seen him since
<iheartubuntu> yah he was busy with life
<jono> MarkDude just called me back - he is fine
<jono> pleia2, ^
<sn9> FINALLY
<pleia2> jono: thanks :)
<jono> :-)
<iheartubuntu> good good
<nhaines> Ugh, OMG!Ubuntu again.
<nhaines> "Oh hey!  The beta hasn't been released yet... but you can trash the mirrors now!"
<pleia2> ugh :(
<pleia2> nhaines: thanks for your reply on that bug (the initial concern was accessibility, I subbed for the tablet angle)
<nhaines> pleia2: it just seemed like such a strange thing for sabdfl to say.  :)
<pleia2> nhaines: the importance has bounced around a little, I suspect it came up in an internal meeting
<pleia2> (launi is a canonical employee)
<pleia2> he's also the one who got me involved with the PA LoCo, we were hanging out in philly one day in 2007 and I was like "hey, we should have an ubuntu team" and he said "one is starting, see!"
<pleia2> fun times, we've all moved away from PA now :\
<nhaines> haha  :)
<nhaines> Aww.
<iheartubuntu> hi markdude
<MarkDude> Hello iheartubuntu
<iheartubuntu> hows the gooseberry hangin
<MarkDude> Good deal- garden is doing ok also
<iheartubuntu> nice. im not doing a garden it looks like :(
<iheartubuntu> expanding the garage and will wipe out my raised beds
<iheartubuntu> will have to continue the garden after everything is done
<MarkDude> Half of the seeds I transplanted into the backyard were eaten overnight
<MarkDude> the other half were in the front yard- so they were safe
<MarkDude> for the moment
<iheartubuntu> Im starting to work on a flyer I will post in different places announcing the Pasadena Ubuntu Hour. Im considering putting a QR Code on the page since most students I see have smartphones nowadays. But not sure what data I should put in the QR Code.
<iheartubuntu> Maybe just the Ubuntu Hour wiki page?
<iheartubuntu> since that page had ALL the data? time, date, location, etc?
 * iheartubuntu is NOT getting a qr code tattoo
<akk> Go to the page for the specific UH, not the general "all ubuntu hours" page.
<akk> It should take people straight to a page that displays the time and location so they don't have to hunt.
<iheartubuntu> thats what im thinking too
 * iheartubuntu just hopes someone doesnt draw in an extra square within the qrcode :)
<MarkDude> Or change it
 * MarkDude thinks it would be way cool to create some QR codes the same size as the posters MS uses-
<MarkDude> maybe to Linux sites
<iheartubuntu> to ubuntu.com
<iheartubuntu> ive seen them stuck on light posts while waiting at a light
<akk> That's a cute way to get people to go to your (probably malware) site.
<iheartubuntu> for a good time call... and then put a qr code :) haha
 * MarkDude needs to make some updated codes for Partimus 
<iheartubuntu> will Natty make use of my nvidia drivers for unity or will i need to install those to get unity going
<nhaines> Which drivers are you referring to?
<iheartubuntu> nvidia drivers
<iheartubuntu> whatever the current ones are
<nhaines> There are two different drivers, neither of which are installed by default.
<iheartubuntu> will i get the unity desktop since they arent installed by default?
<nhaines> Currently, it appears (on my system, anyway) that the proprietary drivers (nv) support Unity and the experimental Free drivers (noveau) do not support Unity.
<nhaines> No, because Unity requires 3D support.
<iheartubuntu> (downloading 11.04 beta... 9 days to go)
<iheartubuntu> interesting.
<iheartubuntu> so if a computer has no 3D card it also wont have unity?
<nhaines> As Unity requires 3D support, that is correct.
<akk> For a while they were saying there was a non-3d mode -- but that it would be fairly different from the normal 3d mode.
<akk> When people were asking on ubuntu-dev* about testing unity in VMs.
<nhaines> akk: there is Unity 2D but that is a parallel project.  It's default in the ARM builds but not installed by default in the desktop builds.
<iheartubuntu> i think thats where i got confused. thanks. and i havent kept up on the news
<akk> Ubuntu's support for the graphics chip in my laptop (Intel 945 or thereabouts) is fairly crappy and I've never figured out why.
<akk> d has the same graphics in his netbook and ubuntu supports it, but maybe something got misconfigured in my install and there's no obvious way to test or fix it.
<akk> He can do tuxracer/google earth and I can't.
<iheartubuntu> akk - have you done a fresh install lately?
<iheartubuntu> my dad has a Dell Inspiron 1525n and did not do 3D a couple of years ago when he bought it. A recent fresh install of Ubuntu fixed that and my dad is doing SuperTuxKart and Speed Dreams no prob
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-04-01
<akk> iheartubuntu: No, haven't installed ubuntu in a long time, though I did a debian squeeze install a few weeks ago.
<akk> I usually upgrade in place.
<nhaines> akgraner: the current Ubuntu installer for natty is pretty.  :)
<aaditya> #defocus is a chaos today, thanks to the new policy.
<aaditya> http://blog.freenode.net/2011/04/important-service-announcement-regarding-defocus/
<m4gnus> good morning folks. anyone _here_ at the moment?
<iheartubuntu> I'll be doing an at home Global Jam here in a few min and will install Unity on my comp. Hope the Walnut Creek Jam is a great turnout!
<crashsystems> anyone have good April 1st links?
<iheartubuntu> youtube is doing an old version of their site. (not much though)
<iheartubuntu> someone made a Google Classic postcard... http://goo.gl/rM4df
<iheartubuntu> not really april fools, but neat anyhow
<iheartubuntu> should print it out and mail it in :)
<pleia2> crashsystems: the thinkgeek ones are amusing
<crashsystems> Yeah, I saw that one
<crashsystems> of course, thinkgeek is _always_ amusing
<pleia2> http://www.google.com/intl/en/jobs/uslocations/mountain-view/autocompleter/index.html was pretty good too
<crashsystems> also, http://www.doublerainbowdaddy.com/
<pleia2> hah :)
<crashsystems> ugh, I want to kick irccloud
<pleia2> oh, hah, debian.org
<pleia2> I guess a bunch of them did it
<crashsystems> http://us.toshiba.com/spectacle
<pleia2> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=21-24+Millbank+London+SW1P+4QP++United+Kingdom&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Millbank+Tower,+21-24+Millbank,+London,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.492774,-0.12454&spn=0.005571,0.013937&z=17
 * MarkDude is at the Walnut Creek bug jam now
<pleia2> how's it going?
<pleia2> oh, just starting :)
 * MarkDude was here early - trying to get the internets set up- DAMN att
<pleia2> MarkDude: make sure someone takes pictures :)
<pleia2> we'll get them up on flickr
<iheartubuntu> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: oh yes, tweets handled!
 * MarkDude is posting a few pics now pleia2 
<pleia2> MarkDude: wanna send some to me for http://www.flickr.com/photos/ubuntu-us-ca ?
<pleia2> doh, I should fix the license on these
<pleia2> there
<iheartubuntu> was there a plan to get the ubucon videos online? i want to relive the action!
<MarkDude> I posted to FB
<MarkDude> https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=124099&id=148361495775
 * MarkDude can post later
<iheartubuntu> In-N-Out sticker on Jono's computer HAAAAA
<pleia2> hahaha, ubuntu coffee cups :)
<nhaines> I'm about to upgrade x.org, gdm, unity, software-center, apt-get, and upgrade-manager all at the same time.  What could possibly go wrong?
<iheartubuntu> nothing :) worked for me!
<iheartubuntu> (although not on this comp)
<iheartubuntu> id say thats a huge plus. i remember a few years back some beta updates i did crashed my system.
<nhaines> That's a risk at any time in beta.
<iheartubuntu> in my case, i have not had that happen for a long time, so +1 for Ubuntu!
<akk> Ubuntu really does very well with upgrades.
<akk> On another channel someone was getting all excited that SuSE was finally supporting upgrade-in-place
<akk> and sheesh, that's been reliable for ubuntu for, what, 5 years?
<nhaines> akk: that's what kept me off of Linux (and SuSE 9.2) back in 2003....
<akk> I remember it used to be a nightmare in Redhat, everybody always reinstalled instead of upgrading.
<nhaines> And it's also what helped me switch in 2006 is that Ubuntu had upgraded just fine for the past year and a half.
<pleia2> wow, I had no idea they didn't spport them until now
<nhaines> I appreciate that it is not an easy thing to do.  Although it's really fun to see the Ubiquity installer support upgrades now.  :)
<akk> Little stuff always breaks in upgrades, but not because of the upgrade, just because of software changes.
<akk> But no major things (knock silicon).
<nhaines> Grr, now Unity isn't raising windows or assigning focus.
<grantbow> pleia2: what's that bug # you were talking about? the unity soft keyboard.
<pleia2> grantbow: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/739812
<nhaines> Actually, it's not doing anything right now.  Hmm, maybe I need another reboot.
<grantbow> thanks
<grantbow> jono: thanks for looking at that bug. I agree with pleia2 there's an issue there.
<jono> grantbow, pleia2 I suspect this will be bumped to Ocelot - I agree with Mark that this does not inhibit the Ubuntu experience for a11y reasons, the classic mode still exists, but it will make Unity suck
<jono> so we can still deliver an a11y experience via the classic mode, but Unity will be less compatible
<jono> the a11y work bore great fruit, they just ran out of time
<iheartubuntu> Grooveshark has a 3D website for april 1st... http://listen.grooveshark.com/#/
<iheartubuntu> ThinkGeek has some crazy items for sale... http://www.thinkgeek.com/
<iheartubuntu> light saber popcicles :)
<iheartubuntu> "taste the force"
<iheartubuntu> angry birds pork rinds
<slick666> lol
<slick666> have u seen th bacon soap?
<iheartubuntu> youtubes 1911 viral videos... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNm8ZCJ7Fx8
<iheartubuntu> love the cat at the end licking the horn
<iheartubuntu> "LinkedIn has an elaborate and fun joke this year. Log into the site, then click on Contacts â Add Connections and choose âPeople You May Know.â Youâll find out that the list is far more interesting than usual, featuring such celebrities as Robin Hood and Albert Einstein!"
<broder> haha. on the subject of 4/1 pranks: http://blog.mezeske.com/?p=377
<broder> "cppsh, the bash-like shell specifically designed for those engineers who find themselves most comfortable at the reins of a C++ compiler"
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: no countdown banner submission this time?
<pleia2> they are still accepting, selecting on monday https://lists.canonical.com/archives/ubuntu-website/2011-April/001148.html
<iheartubuntu> pleia2 - i will do something tonite. hope i make it in. i think all these great designs are passing my skills by now :(
<iheartubuntu> there was a star trek looking one a week or two ago... now i dont see it.
<iheartubuntu> ohh by april 4th. i'll get at least two in :)
<pleia2> they are deciding on the morning of april 4th, UK time
<pleia2> so by the 3rd here really :)
<iheartubuntu> ohh OK thx
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-04-02
<pleia2> doh, the boyfriend is on call this weekend so he can't come to the global jam
<crashsystems> Anyone else having a problem in 11.04 where the Unity file search only finds files you've opened recently?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-04-03
 * pleia2 makes coasters
<pleia2> ugh
<pleia2> "wow, I discovered all these CDRs in boxes from storage! I don't need to buy more!"
<pleia2> turns out they're all 100 years old and dead :)
<akk> It's weird how unburned ones have a shelf life just like burned ones.
<akk> I guess that shouldn't be surprising when you think about it, but it surprised me somehow.
 * jdeslip is getting ready to Jam
<pleia2> :)
 * jdeslip made no preparations what so ever for the event.  - is ashamed
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> well, I have a few versions of burned cds for the daily builds
<pleia2> working on some usb sticks, but it's slow going
<jdeslip> I am just burning the beta now
<pleia2> I burned one ubuntu and one xubuntu beta
<jdeslip> Maybe I'll grab a Kubuntu in the spirit of DarkwingDuck
<DarkwingDuck> Whoot!
<pleia2> I put kubuntu on the usb sticks
<DarkwingDuck> :)
 * jdeslip whispers - even though kde is for losers ;)
<sn9> CD-R's from 1911?
<akk> No, just 2007 -- pleia2 didn't mention she was using binary.
<pleia2> sn9: I may have been exaggerating slightly
<sn9> i have much older CD-R blanks that burn just fine
<akk> CDR life is very variable. Some of them die in 2 years, some may last 10 or longer.
<akk> But once they get a few years old you're on borrowed time and shouldn't count on them.
 * pleia2 runs out to catch bart
<pleia2> arrived in berkeley :)
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/5586230896/
<pleia2> we haz yummy pizza
 * pleia2 waves to jyo1 
 * grantbow arrived in berkeley
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> 4 of us here now
<grantbow> bug 738330 is annoying - virtualbox x drivers haven't worked for Natty for a few weeks.
<grantbow> won't have to worry about x in oneiric ;-)
<sn9> 11.10 is called oneiric?
<crashsystems> the wiki should have a release name pronunciation guide
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> the second thing I did when I learned about oneiric was find a dictionary site that had an mp3 of the pronunciation
<pleia2> (the first was to look for an ocelot stuffed animal)
<nhaines> sn9: 11.10 is "oneiric ocelot".
<nhaines> pleia2: I don't pronounce oneiric the same way sabdfl does.  :)
<crashsystems> I refused to refer to 10.10 as Maverick. The 08 election season ruined that word for me, and calling a release an "unbranded cow" just sounded funny.
<sn9> meerkat
<nhaines> It's just a development codename.
<nhaines> "natty" has changed to "Ubuntu 10.04" since beta 1.
<nhaines> Let's just pretend I said 11.04 in the first place.  ;)
<pleia2> nhaines: I don't think I've heard him say it
<pleia2> if you don't have anything nice to say... #unity
<pleia2> :\
<pleia2> woo xubuntu \o/
 * crashsystems <3 unity
<jyo> grantbow: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-1-gnome/+bug/697095
<grantbow> wow
<pleia2> jyo: http://rww.name/articles/grub2iso.html
<nhaines> pleia2: in his announcement, he said it's pronounced "ahn-eer-ick".  But it's Greek, so it should be more like "ohn-eye-rick".
<sn9> why -eye-?
<nhaines> sn9: because it's Greek.
<pleia2> packing up here now
<sn9> greek, not german
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-03-26
 * pleia2 waves
<akk> hiya
<pleia2> at mother in law to be's, will take meeting from road but Darkwing will chair
<philipballew> Meeting time?
<pleia2> yep
<philipballew> nice!
<pleia2> Darkwing: should be along to chair
 * pleia2 on phone
<philipballew> if he's busy I can just paste the stuff and let the people talk as i was gonna do the post meeting stuff on the wiki
<philipballew> pleia2, need to go have more fun in Phili :)
<pleia2> we can start
<philipballew> sounds good to me
<philipballew> I have the agenda link
<philipballew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/12March25
<pleia2> thanks philipballew
<philipballew> no problem.
<philipballew> well if anyone wants to talk about UDS that is coming up soon we can discuss that. Who all is going and what we will be doing.
<philipballew> I will be going and Its gonna be a good time for us to you know see other ubuntu users.
<pleia2> trying to paste link :)
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Q/OtherEvents
<philipballew> when were in our "daily lives" finding another Ubuntu user is not always common, however here I will be and thats alwways a nice treat
<pleia2> there!
<philipballew> we need to have all places to visit accessible by transit I assume
<philipballew> well pleia2 I guess the meeting is about over. I can do the post meeting logs monday
<pleia2> yeah, we have a good list coning togethr
<pleia2> wait, release parties :)
<philipballew> oh thats right!
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/PreciseRelease
<pleia2> so far only san francisco
<philipballew> I assume that will stay. SD here is probably bot gonna happen as I will not be able to do anything
<pleia2> i need to add it to that page
<pleia2> anyone else from ubuntu hours want to do anything?
<philipballew> I just got 12 books from oriley for the sd ubuntu hour to pass out a couple each to people who come to the next meeting
<pleia2> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/1615/detail/ is sf details, thirsty bear as usual ;)
<pleia2> sweet
<eps> How about a *real* release party, at a place where you can get a seat, it isn't so noisy you can't hear yourself thing, there are power outlets, Wi-Fi, and better food choices?
<eps> s/thing/think
<pleia2> oh, grantbow and i will be doinf a presentation on 12.04 at balug next month
<philipballew> nice!
<pleia2> eps: you're welcome to plan one
<eps> I thought I already had ... but you tabled discussion at the last meeting, unilaterally dictated something different, and I still can't edit the Wiki.
<pleia2> eps: we arent restricted to one night or one venue
<eps> I still can't edit the Wiki.
<eps> Can we talk about UDS?
<pleia2> events go in loco.ubuntu.com now
<jyo> MarkDude: We should start figuring out who wants to baseball during UDS.
<pleia2> we just add the link to the wiki
<eps> OK, move https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Q/OtherEvents to loco.ubuntu.com.
<philipballew> jyo, I do!!!
<pleia2> if we want to do a panera release too someone needs to take a lead there, i dont have time beyond a simppe thirsty bear thing :(
<pleia2> eps: we can once its formalized
<eps> Can we discuss UDS now?
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UDS-Q
<eps> Yes, a page I can't edit.
<pleia2> is the ideas page
<pleia2> you can share ideas now
<philipballew> I assume your logged in eps ?
<pleia2> someone who can edit it will add them
<eps> philipballew: yes. It's the *only* think my ID doesn't work on.
<eps> San Francisco Tourism: can this start any earlier?
<pleia2> once ideas are finaluzed we create the loco.ubuntu event like i did for tourism and add it to the non-california uds page
<pleia2> eps: no, sessions dontvend until 6pm
<philipballew> what is the best way to make a decision for what event/s we should do?
<pleia2> we dont needvto decidevreallu, just find someone tovrun it
<eps> I'm asking for a reason ... rather than take BART into The City, I was going to suggest the ferry, which leaves at 6:55 p.m. http://www.eastbayferry.com/when/aopm.html
<philipballew> well it seems someone is setting up a bball game?
<jyo> MarkDude can get tickets or group tickets.
<jyo> but need to figure out number of people
<pleia2> eps: we can try, but people tend to like to change and freshen up after sessions, so it takes a whhile to gsther everyone
<pleia2> 6:55 isvprobably optimistic for getting everyone to a ferry
<philipballew> jyo, the Woman running uds details can probably tell you
<pleia2> jyo: a uds mailing list exists
<pleia2> last uds i had ppl email me for rsvp if tjey couldnt ise loco.ubuntu
<eps> The next one is 7:55. The earlier one makes for a better photo op.
<eps> I also don't know how late people want to stay up ... ideally you want them to be still functional the next morning.
<pleia2> jyo: unfortunately we had to estimate when we got invisivle exhibition ticoets, we were fortunate they were flexible
<pleia2> baseball ticketsbare more tricky
<philipballew> ubuntu night at the park!
<pleia2> people tend to stay out late, coffee is for funtionality :)
<eps> The As could be in Toronto for all we know
<pleia2> they are home that week
<jyo> Blue Jays and Tigers
<philipballew> both good teams to watch
<pleia2> my battery is dying, i'll read the logs after and update the wiki with more ideas
<philipballew> sounds good. someone can close the meeting soon.
<philipballew> unless anyone has anything else to say we can close it now?
<philipballew> end meeting
<MarkDude> Uh
<MarkDude> I was a day late and a dollar short here
<drklunk_> hello all
<jta_> hey...this group a couple years ago told me about a small open source conference it had a table at in the los angeles area....does anybody recall what conference that is?
<akk> SCALE
<akk> http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale10x
<jta_> frak, i just found it also...it was in january...shiesh...i missed it...thanks : )
<greg-g> "small" ?
<jta_> thanks....hey, I am the San Diego guy from a few years ago....if anybody has been here for that long...you might remember me if you have a photographic memory lol....anything happening in san diego for your group at all?
<akk> There are several regulars here from SD, but I always forget who's where.
<jta_> greg-g:  i am a media freelancer for conferences...most of mine attendance is in the 10s of thousands, lol...
<akk> I think there's a monthly SD ubuntu hour.
<jta_> ah...hmmm akk: thanks
<jta_> greg-g: so relative to me, sorry, yes, it's small....but very important...
<jta_> i was hoping to help out...give my services free...
<jta_> shucks...
<jta_> hmmm....i was the guy that was pushing ubuntu studio and blender down here in san diego if anybody remembers....i'm still doing it...but i have a renewed push since blender and other media/audio programs are getting very mature...like ardour...
<jta_> i don't know if anybody here now is into all that...
<jta_> i'll check out the wiki...
<jta_> thanks for letting me have a monologue on your channel ; )
<jta_> ok catch you guys later...thanks for the info, have a great day : )
<Darkwing> SD!
<Darkwing> dang he left
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-03-27
<icarus81> hey how is it going.
<philipballew> icarus81, good, yourself?
<icarus81> I am OK having some werid problem with flash though.
<icarus81> I am kinda over it now.
<philipballew> over with flash icarus81
<philipballew> yeah, me to?
<philipballew> unless I need to watch a youtube vid
<icarus81> you have the same problem?
<icarus81> I thought it was my setup or somthing.
<philipballew> icarus81, i dont know what your problem is
<jyo> Hooray http://browserquest.mozilla.org/ Hooray HTML5!
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-03-28
<Darkwing> thank god I have unlimited bandwidth on my webhosting server.
<Darkwing> 692115.72 GB in February. :D
<dragon> wut?
<dragon> How do you transfer that much?
<MarkDude> Hey dragon
<DonkeyHotei> through the interwebs is how
<dragon> hey MarkDude, how's it going!?
<MarkDude> your GF takes some great pics
<dragon> DonkeyHotei: Oh.
<MarkDude> Great
<dragon> MarkDude: :D
<MarkDude> hey sn9
 * MarkDude refuses to keep up with all your nicks :D
 * MarkDude has two
<MarkDude> well three if you count MarkDude'
 * MarkDude just had a pro review his pics
<Darkwing> dragon: Android ROM dev stuff.
<MarkDude> was kinda hrash
<MarkDude> harsh
<MarkDude> but honest
<DonkeyHotei> dragon is non-single? awesome!
<dragon> Darkwing: ah, that explains.
<dragon> DonkeyHotei: it's been over 6 months. Where have you been? :P
<MarkDude> the pro opinion is still: my vision is better than my skillz
<Darkwing> Yeah, I help dev and host the Bugless Beast ROMs
<DonkeyHotei> dragon: exile
<dragon> MarkDude: wow, that's awesome.
<dragon> DonkeyHotei: oh, I'm sorry.
<DonkeyHotei> dragon: coming back, though
<MarkDude> dragon, has a woman that looks like Issabella rossallini
<MarkDude> dragon, 's old lady is hot :D
<DonkeyHotei> why? he can do better than her
<MarkDude> Even my Grandma said so
 * MarkDude will fist fight over that
<MarkDude> :D
<MarkDude> Dude, that pic of Sam coming out of the crypt, was one of my best pics
<MarkDude> at least according to a friend that makes a living taking pics
<MarkDude> for Sports illustrated, and for MLB
<dragon> O.O
<MarkDude> He said she was *kind on the eyes
<MarkDude> and I placed her well
<MarkDude> COPE
<MarkDude> your old lady os hot
<dragon> Yes, she is.
<MarkDude> (for the record she is NOT old)
 * DonkeyHotei has come to be proud of being "single and not looking"
<MarkDude> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150685602083805&set=a.10150653867173805.413188.717333804&type=1&theater&notif_t=like
<MarkDude> And that pic of Cam
<MarkDude> those two
<MarkDude> Never was able to show any of Nixie tho :)
<MarkDude> Friend me if you are not already on FB
 * DonkeyHotei will never be on FB
<MarkDude> Cope Sn9
<MarkDude> You ok with your ex gf being in my Zombie comic book?
<DonkeyHotei> i cope by not being on FB
 * MarkDude has been wondering about the answer here
<DonkeyHotei> she is no more my ex gf than you are
<DonkeyHotei> generally, i don't like the idea of people who know me knowing each other
<DonkeyHotei> so, yes, it does bother me that you friended each other
<DonkeyHotei> she's right next to me atm, btw, but not looking at the screen
<MarkDude> Oh
<MarkDude> intersting
<MarkDude> awkaward
<DonkeyHotei> but at least dragon won't have to deal with her advances again (she really did have the hots for him)
<MarkDude> Nixie likes the idea of her being one of her *zombie horde*
<MarkDude> Well DonkeyHotei
<MarkDude> EVERYONE thinks dragon is hot
<MarkDude> pretty much all of us
<MarkDude> Looks and braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaains
<MarkDude> to make a zombie pun
<DonkeyHotei> i wouldn't know; i'm straight
<MarkDude> Same with me dude
<MarkDude> You are still what I would guess as hot
<MarkDude> at least gauging from my female friends reactions
<dragon> Wut? Who?
<DonkeyHotei> if you think i'm hot, it just proves you have no taste
 * dragon looks around.
<MarkDude> silence is the better part of valor
<MarkDude> or for Jonos sake valour
<MarkDude> Hell, my tastes are not in doubt, but still. most think you are a fine specimen
<MarkDude> :D
 * dragon bows.
<dragon> Thank you, sir.
<DonkeyHotei> MarkDude: idk where you get that info, but certainly not planet Earth
<MarkDude> *jealous*
<dragon> I'll go home now.
<dragon> before I go insane.
 * MarkDude just asked a random chick
<MarkDude> YEP
<MarkDude> dragon, meets the minimum
<MarkDude> and as she said
<MarkDude> "some would fall in love"
<DonkeyHotei> he meets far more than the minimum; i don't
<MarkDude> Starbucks is good for asking random questions
<MarkDude> Dude
<MarkDude> DonkeyHotei, you have style
<MarkDude> as MarkDude does
<dragon> yay, minimum!
<MarkDude> style counts for quite a bit
<DonkeyHotei> i don't go by style
<MarkDude> DonkeyHotei, cool
<MarkDude> we were talking about what WOMEN like
<MarkDude> unless we are talking ab out fallinf in love in the mirror
<DonkeyHotei> women tend to be very shallow creatures, unless you're talking about the smart kind, which are a rare commodity
<dragon> You just called them commodity?
<dragon> I can't believe this.
<DonkeyHotei> dragon: it's what MarkDude referred to as "style" you see
<MarkDude> Just asked a woman from India
<MarkDude> yep
<MarkDude> Well born here
<MarkDude> but Indian
<DonkeyHotei> being an asshole is one of my strengths, as MarkDude has said on multiple occasions
<MarkDude> She also said she prefers the facial hair dragon
<MarkDude> she did say it was personal preference
<MarkDude> well yes DonkeyHotei
<MarkDude> me too
<dragon> MarkDude: scruff is a plus I hear, but no one likes Santa!
<MarkDude> I have had women say my *gruffness* a plus
<DonkeyHotei> dragon: Mrs. Claus does, apparently
<MarkDude> Ok anyone else want a review?
<MarkDude> Darkwing, for example
<MarkDude> looks like a beatnik
<MarkDude> better he shaved :)
<dragon> MarkDude: that's a plus for sure.
<DonkeyHotei> in any case, opinions from anyone who has not met me hardly count, no matter how Indian they are
<MarkDude> Uh
<MarkDude> in your case it does
<MarkDude> DonkeyHotei,
<MarkDude> you have turned down jobs ------most would KILL for
<DonkeyHotei> i have not
<MarkDude> you turn down speaking opportunities
<DonkeyHotei> yes, that i do
<DonkeyHotei> but not jobs
<dragon> Nobody can turn Steve Jobs down.
<MarkDude> And speaking leads to...
<dragon> That'd be terrible.
<MarkDude> DonkeyHotei, has more skills than most of us
<DonkeyHotei> i turn down speaking opportunities because speaking works against my strengths
<MarkDude> including dragon
<DonkeyHotei> nah, dragon is pretty talented
<dragon> Not as much, DonkeyHotei!
<dragon> You haven't met my talentlessness yet.
<dragon> I have lots of it!
<DonkeyHotei> i have no python-fu, and you do
<MarkDude> and I dont know many times I have ever said someone has more skillz than dragon
<MarkDude> if ever
<MarkDude> Nope never
<dragon> did you just check your chatlogs in those 5 seconds?
<DonkeyHotei> MarkDude: maybe you simply don't know anyone who does
<MarkDude> We all have areas of no talent
<MarkDude> ALL of us
<DonkeyHotei> i have plenty such areas
<DonkeyHotei> so does dragon
<dragon> DonkeyHotei: how do you know that I know python? o.o
<MarkDude> sure.
<DonkeyHotei> so do you
<DonkeyHotei> dragon: you have a website
 * MarkDude still STANDS by DonkeyHotei being one of the most skilled folks in FOSS
<MarkDude> And CHOOSES not to go further
<MarkDude> You have limitations
<MarkDude> we ALL do
<MarkDude> Get over them
<MarkDude> and take a bad ass job
<DonkeyHotei> being skilled is not something to define a person
<MarkDude> No
<MarkDude> you are correct
<MarkDude> BUT
<MarkDude> How many of us have turned down high level speaking chances at Google?
<DonkeyHotei> not me
<JoseeAntonioR> Hello! May I ask where's the list of alternative accomodations? :)
<MarkDude> Most of us would kill for that
<MarkDude> Timeout
<MarkDude> JoseeAntonioR, for UDS?
<JoseeAntonioR> MarkDude: Yep
<MarkDude> Depends on your sense of adventure
<MarkDude> and if you are ok near weeed clubs
<gua> is the best channel for cryptsetup-related stuff #crypto?
<MarkDude> And gang memebers and such
<MarkDude> 1st----- avoid the Tenderloin in SF
<JoseeAntonioR> MarkDude: You had a list in the Wiki, I think
<MarkDude> be more  cautious the closer you are to Oaksterdam
<MarkDude> If you are the caoutious type that is
 * MarkDude strolls thru those areas
<MarkDude> if you are not cool with that
<MarkDude> it comes down to how close vs how cheap
<MarkDude> its math- sorts
<MarkDude> sorta
<DonkeyHotei> MarkDude: were http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L5y60Xnm00 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbEpAuJAow4 "turned down" then?
<JoseeAntonioR> MarkDude: Well, a combination of both, if possible. Do you have the wiki page so I can check it?
<MarkDude> Uh
 * MarkDude has not edited an Ubuntu wiki page in a while
<MarkDude> has knowledge of the local area tho
<JoseeAntonioR> MarkDude: I saw one a few days ago, but I forgot to bookmark it.
<MarkDude> If you drop off- email me at MarkDude@fedoraproject.org
<JoseeAntonioR> Great, thanks :)
 * MarkDude LOVES Ubuntu, and always wants to help
<MarkDude> BUT, there are more capable people than myself for answering questions
 * MarkDude would suggest plei a2  (without the space in her nick) or maybe jledb etter 
<JoseeAntonioR> Yep, but Lyz is on vacation, though :(
<DonkeyHotei> afk
<JoseeAntonioR> DonkeyHotei: That's her normal away metadata
<MarkDude> Well she is in Philly :)
<MarkDude> JoseeAntonioR, so you going to be here for just UDS- or for longer?
<MarkDude> That sorta matters
<MarkDude> or just get a place near UDS
<MarkDude> and then get one in SF
<JoseeAntonioR> MarkDude: For the UDS. I'm sponsored by Canonical, but I'm 15, and my dad isn't able to pay 105 per night in the Marriott (we agreed to pay 50/50 with Canonical) :/
 * MarkDude thinks it would be silly to not spend a few extra days here
<MarkDude> Ahhhh- ok
<MarkDude> Well see if you can get an extra day or two
<JoseeAntonioR> I'll spend only 2 more days :)
 * MarkDude went on a trip at your age
<MarkDude> and was able to get an extra day
<MarkDude> ok - 15- that kinda limits you - only a bit tho
<MarkDude> Low end places are not reallly on the list
<JoseeAntonioR> :)
<MarkDude> So near low end
<MarkDude> at worst
<JoseeAntonioR> I saw a wiki page, but I'm not able to find it anymore
<MarkDude> nhaines, ping
<MarkDude> Nathan is my go to guy on stuff like this
<MarkDude> He knows the wiki welll, as well as being a very nice guy
<JoseeAntonioR> yay :)
<MarkDude> maybe jbermudes
<JoseeAntonioR> Well, Nathan has been idle for two weeks :P
<MarkDude> or maybe grantbow ------ if his bot ever notifies him
<MarkDude> Well if no one else
 * MarkDude can help here
<JoseeAntonioR> Do you know any cheap hotel that is close?
 * MarkDude will have to check 
<MarkDude> and double check areas that are safe
<MarkDude> or kinda safe
<MarkDude> most are
<MarkDude> there are a few that are not tho
<JoseeAntonioR> Hmm, I see
<JoseeAntonioR> There were two hotels listed in that page
<JoseeAntonioR> But I can't find it!
<Faqtotum> ohai
<MarkDude> So
<MarkDude> Apparently the rest of Ubuntu
<MarkDude> is willing to let the *Fedora guy * flp in the wind.....
<MarkDude> flap
<MarkDude> or at least Cali channel
<Faqtotum> MarkDude: now then, what were you saying before i had to skedaddle?
<MarkDude> Uh you should have a high level job
<MarkDude> not like public wise
<MarkDude> bit more stuff devs would admire
<MarkDude> Devs admire you DonkeyHotei
<Faqtotum> not everything that should be is
<JoseeAntonioR> FOUND IT!
<MarkDude> Coool
<MarkDude> Sorry JoseeAntonioR
<JoseeAntonioR> No problem :)
<MarkDude> Wikis are horrible for hiding info
 * MarkDude looks forward to seeing you at UDS
<MarkDude> Where you from (if I can ask)
<MarkDude> ?
<Faqtotum> how much is UDS, btw?
<MarkDude> FREE
<MarkDude> duh
<MarkDude> Mark S is a generous benefactor
<Faqtotum> maybe i should register, then
<MarkDude> He helps pay for those that live far away
<MarkDude> YES
 * MarkDude for one would like to see you there Faqtotum 
<JoseeAntonioR> MarkDude: I'm from Peru, in South America :)
<Faqtotum> nothing to lose even if i end up not going
<MarkDude> as well as many others
<MarkDude> RIGHT on
<MarkDude> JoseeAntonioR, you ever talked to tatica?
<MarkDude> from .ve?
<JoseeAntonioR> Nope, ever
<MarkDude> She has had Ubuntu event
<MarkDude> as well as Flisol
<MarkDude> tatica.org
<JoseeAntonioR> I'll check, then :)
<MarkDude> Flsol would like you to attend ---- maybe next year
<MarkDude> South America is rather active, and has some good people in it
<JoseeAntonioR> Yep, I'm trying to revive my LoCo.
<JoseeAntonioR> We're having the FLISOL in about one month.
<gua> woah wait what, uds is in oakland
<Faqtotum> duh
<gua> i kept thinking it was in amsterdam
<JoseeAntonioR> gua: Yep, it is.
<gua> hp platinum sponsor. <3 hp
<Faqtotum> is it at the oakland convention center?
<JoseeAntonioR> Faqtotum: Nope, a few steps aside.
<gua> Please note that UDS takes place at City Center. Be sure to get the right one! Information on facilities, travel information and so on are available on the Marriott City Center website.
<gua> http://uds.ubuntu.com/event/
<gua> so it's really free?
<JoseeAntonioR> gua: Yep, it's free at all.
<MarkDude> No doubt gua
<MarkDude> it is FREE
<MarkDude> Mark S is a nice benefactor
<MarkDude> he does not just talk *junk*
<MarkDude> He backs it
<MarkDude> its ALL Ffree
<Faqtotum> backing junk is nice, yes
<JoseeAntonioR> And takes people from another cities/countries for FREE :D
<MarkDude> Sponsorship is ONLY needed fro travel
<MarkDude> Faqtotum, lets have this talk later - please
<MarkDude> Mark S is awesome
<Faqtotum> that would be BART for me
<MarkDude> we can argue details at some other time
<MarkDude> Dude is awesome
<Faqtotum> later is fine; you brought it up
<gua> ah that is nice
<pleia2> I followed up directly with Jose, but for reference: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Q/OtherAccommodation
 * pleia2 goes back to Philadelphiaing (go home tomorrow night)
<tatica> o0
<tatica> MarkDude, still need me?
<tatica> ok, going to sleep
<philipballew> Has anyone here ever used vistaprint? yay or nay?
<DonkeyHotei> yay
<DonkeyHotei> definite yay
<DonkeyHotei> despite the name
<philipballew> alright, im gonna order some stuff!
<erichammond> Vistaprint is reasonably good quality and can be reasonably good deal if you can find a discount code.
<erichammond> I may have also used myprinteasy.com at some point.
<philipballew> I would probably just google vistaprint promo code or something like that if you say there is some
<erichammond> philipballew: Yep, it can take a little work figuring out which codes work and which is best for your order, but it can save you a bundle.
<philipballew> i see they have 250 for 10 plus free shipping currently. I might try that.
<philipballew> Being on a budget is my specialty
<erichammond> That's a great deal, but there might be addon charges for colors, good card stock, etc.
<philipballew> thats a good point. I just have to mess with it and find something good sooner or later
<erichammond> You might also try the 50% off once you're done specifying the product.
 * philipballew didn't think of that
<erichammond> Then, after you make your first order, they'll probably send you a code to get a *really* good deal on your next order :-/
<philipballew> what a good excuse to buy more :)
<MarkDude> Yes tatica
<DonkeyHotei> she's not there
<DonkeyHotei> [Tue 2012-03-27 08:06:28 PM PDT] * tatica (~tatica@190.202.181.186) has left #ubuntu-us-ca ("Saliendo")
<erichammond> philipballew: extra charge for printing on the back of a business card and extra charge for color printing on the back of a business card, ...
<philipballew> I can just do front I guess erichammond all I need is phone number email and website (it might just be my twitter page)
<philipballew> aside from my name that is
<philipballew> i was gonna do my pgp key, but I want to avoid that "whats all those numbers on the bottom of your card" thing
<erichammond> philipballew: I did the pgp fingerprint in light gray and surrounded it with Ubuntu dots in an effort to make it seem like an odd design mark for the uninitiated.
<philipballew> good point. I guess it fills the white space.
<philipballew> because I have yet to memorize my pgp key, I should probably look that up.
<philipballew> hey everyone! my pgp key is 2048R/D8413759!
<erichammond> Low quality previews (cards look much better): http://tmp.anvilon.com/preview-front.jpg and http://tmp.anvilon.com/preview-back.jpg
<philipballew> did you use inkscape? thats what Im using?
<erichammond> yep
<philipballew> i had to install it as its the first time in a good year Its being used by me
<philipballew> I guess you could call me a inkscape noob
<erichammond> I destroy whatever I touch with inkscape even if you give me a pretty template to start with.  Those cards cost me blood and tears to design.
<erichammond> and I'm pretty sure I started with somebody else's example.
<philipballew> this is why I could never be a web designer
<philipballew> unless i could design the entire website with php
<philipballew> or a web language like that
<MarkDude> Yes tatica
<MarkDude> Yes tatica
<MarkDude> yes tatica
<MarkDude> Yes tatica
<DonkeyHotei> ?
<MarkDude> tatica you tease, where are you ? :)
<MarkDude> Ooops repeat on my part
<DonkeyHotei> this morning's update of adobe flash in the repo makes the colors all wrong in youtube videos
<greg-g> DonkeyHotei: which repo?
<DonkeyHotei> partners
<DonkeyHotei> anyway, appears to be affecting some videos and not others; codec issue?
<greg-g> oneiric/precise? which version of flash are you using?
<DonkeyHotei> oneiric
<DonkeyHotei> the partners repo has only one version at a time afaik
<greg-g> I ask because I have no update
<DonkeyHotei> apt-get update
<greg-g> DonkeyHotei: I understand how to use apt
<greg-g> can you use apt-cache policy and tell me what version you have
<greg-g> saying "this morning" doesn't always help
<DonkeyHotei> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
<DonkeyHotei> | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
<DonkeyHotei> |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
<DonkeyHotei> ||/ Name                                          Version                                         Description
<DonkeyHotei> +++-=============================================-===============================================-====================================================================================
<DonkeyHotei> ii  adobe-flashplugin                             11.2.202.228-0oneiric1                          Adobe Flash Player plugin version 11
<greg-g> so, that's just paste, which is why I suggested apt-cache policy :)
<greg-g> s/just/junk/
<DonkeyHotei> i did /exec -o dpkg -l adobe-flashplugin
<greg-g> apt-cache policy tells me wher eyou got it, too, which is nice, but, whatever :)
<DonkeyHotei>         500 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ oneiric/partner amd64 Packages
<greg-g> so yeah, it appears that I do not use the version from partner (it is available, but not installed) since I use flashplugin-intaller version 11.1.102.63ubuntu0.11.10.1
<greg-g> so yeah, a version behind what is in partner, apparently
<greg-g> flashplugin-installer is from multiverse
<greg-g> (just fyi)
<iheartubuntu> hi all. any tips on recovering a stolen smart phone?
<DonkeyHotei> if it's android, there's an app called Where's My Droid
<DonkeyHotei> you install it remotely
<iheartubuntu> my wifes iphone and she did not have that find iphone app on it
<iheartubuntu> im searching craigslist and ebay right now
<iheartubuntu> i liek the craigslist ads. they say things like "$50 with NO accessories. dont ask questions"
<iheartubuntu> gee, i wonder if its stolen
<DonkeyHotei> mostly
<iheartubuntu> ive narrowed the ads down to 2 out of 7 or 8 and now emailing those ads with fake email accounts trying to socially engineer (ok pry) info out of those sellers
<pleia2> philipballew: will you have a chance to do the post-meeting tasks this week?
<philipballew> yeah, I was going to do it tonight. I have class till 9 and was going to say sometime between 11 and 2am ish?
<pleia2> (it's fine if you don't, I just need to know whether it needs to go on my own todo list or not :))
<pleia2> oh sure, whenever
<pleia2> thanks!
<philipballew> if for some odd reason its not done tomorow, send me a heated threatening email or something, but I am planning on doing it
<pleia2> lol
<philipballew> yeah, its a pretty easy thing to do.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-03-29
<greg-g> DonkeyHotei: hey, sorry about the terseness of our convo yesterday. But, I thought you'd like to know that the update to flash now made it to the multiverse package I use (also, I might be a little delayed since I use the ANL mirror)
<DonkeyHotei> ok
<DonkeyHotei> granted, i have not restarted chrome since the flash update, only kill -9'ed the flash process
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> I'll restart Fx in a bit and report back. You were seeing it just on youtube?
<DonkeyHotei> yes
<DonkeyHotei> and only on some videos, and not others
<DonkeyHotei> though, i should try illwillpress
<DonkeyHotei> on that site, i used to see the same issue with gnash
<greg-g> hrmm
<greg-g> if you find one that does it repeatedly, paste the url here
<DonkeyHotei> the reason i looked at youtube in the first place was that there was a user in this channel, tatica, whose nick reminded me of something: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qhA2WBQB14
<DonkeyHotei> that one has weird colors, as do a couple of other copies of it on youtube, but there is one with correct colors
<DonkeyHotei> another one with bad colors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJxdL0pH9pw and the correct colors are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I0Hee533Iw
<greg-g> DonkeyHotei: The second one is playing via webm for me and it just seems a little lighter than the first (which is via flash)
<DonkeyHotei> the colors in the first two are inverted with the new flash, but not in the third
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-03-30
<Cuttlefish> What is a good program for someone who knows nothing about
<Cuttlefish> linux to get started in the direction of developing?
<gua> Cuttlefish: that depends a lot on your goals/preferences
<gua> what you want to build, what language(s), if you're okay reading books or tutorials, are you okay with taking a while to learn an editor or do you want to start learning a language right away
<gua> or do you know a language or languages and want to apply them specifically to linux development
<Cuttlefish> I took an intro Java class in college
<Cuttlefish> that's about it
<Cuttlefish> I would like to learn a language like c but I really would like a project
<Cuttlefish> to work towards that can help me learn
<Cuttlefish> I probably would like to deal with something in TCP/IP if that even makes sense in regards to developing linux
<gua> Cuttlefish: search the reddit subreddit /r/learnprogramming for learning c
<gua> one book on linuxish programming that people recommend is the unix programming environment
<gua> also you have to pick if you want to use an editor like vim or emacs or an IDE like eclipse
<Cuttlefish> I can't just nano it? lol
<gua> well yeah, but i'd actually recommend something like gedit over nano
<Cuttlefish> ok
<gua> gedit at least has syntax highlighting
<gua> my personal view is learning vim and emacs is good to do eventually. so the sooner you do it the better, but not everyone agrees with that.
<Cuttlefish> do you like vim or emacs more?
<gua> heh
<gua> Cuttlefish: i think you should do the intro tutorial for each and decide. they both have included tutorials.
<Cuttlefish> ok thanks
<gua> C-h t   (hold control and press h, then release both and press t) for emacs
<gua> vimtutor    (the command in a terminal) for vim
<gua> they are quite different from stuff like nano and eclipse and visual studio, so expect a learning curve
<Cuttlefish> Hey thanks for all the help
<pleia2> some additional eyeballs to review would be helpful :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Q/PublicTransit
<greg-g> pleia2: nice photo of the info booth (as in, nice job taking a photo of it, I would have forgot)
<pleia2> I actually did forget :) after getting off the plane my fiance goes "Didn't you want to check on Clipper cards while we were here?" :)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> even after that I would have forgot the photo part :)
<pleia2> we went up and spoke with the people at the booth to get details, and I love pictures
<greg-g> pitures++
<greg-g> also, great photos from Philly, especially the model train at the arboretum
<bkerensa> pleia2:  PublicTrans looks accurate
<pleia2> thanks bkerensa
<greg-g> yeah, my non-comment on actual useful content should indicate that I did not find anything wrong with it, pleia2
<pleia2> oh good, thanks greg-g
<pleia2> I've never taken AC Transit, so I might need to track down some Oaklandites
<DonkeyHotei> i've taken it
<DonkeyHotei> not really different from sf-muni
<greg-g> yeah, never done OAK stuff
<pleia2> their site says $.25 transfers, is that any transfers or after a time period?
<greg-g> do we care to talk about Caltrain? I mean, it isn't useful for UDS-specific stuff, only if they want to go to Mozilla's office/Google/etc
<DonkeyHotei> pleia2: i don't remember, and at this point i wouldn't care, because i have a clipper card
<pleia2> greg-g: I was debating that, I think I will end up adding it now that you've mentioned it
<greg-g> heh, ok
<bkerensa> I have to go to Mozilla when I am down for UDS but not the Mountain View Office :D
<greg-g> bkerensa: be thankful
<bkerensa> greg-g: I hear the new SF office is really swanky and volunteers have co-working space available on-demand :D
<greg-g> bkerensa: yeah, I haven't been there, but a few people I know have, and the view is awesome and everyone loves it :)
<pleia2> ooh, I am totally going to make "I'm a local" buttons for us to wear at UDS
 * philipballew wants one
<philipballew> Critical mass is tonight! Totally gonna rock!
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-03-31
<pleia2> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Rd3FPMPJPB0/T3ZKRm7RJBI/AAAAAAAAF2g/fTd4NAMBFu0/h301/Im_a_local_pin.png
<pleia2> ordered 15 of 'em :)
<pleia2> even better, they were having a button sale \o/
<philipballew> I still need to figure out how to get there. I could leave at 8 am from the train in norcal, but I dont do well in the morning.
<philipballew> my 8 hour bus ride for 5 dollers doesnt work on sunday...
<akk> Anyone from the SCALE booth remember what the password might have been on my ExoPC tablet?
<akk> Oh, NM, it has a passwordless guest.
<pleia2> I don't remember :(
<pleia2> ah :)
<akk> (I don't remember this "exo" account being there before the show)
<akk> oops, have to clear the table for dinner
<pleia2> philipballew: post meeting stuff? :)
<philipballew> pleia2, sure. link to the instructions again?
<pleia2> philipballew: it's on the /Meetings page
<pleia2> "MeetingChecklist"
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/MeetingChecklist
<philipballew_> pleia2, I or someone needs to change the topic here for the next meeting.
<philipballew_> I dont have ops to do that really...
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, April 8th, 7:00pm PDT | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com  |  We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<pleia2> philipballew: thanks! the forums links are broken though (it copied over ... directly, rather than the full links working), can you edit to fix those up when you have a chance?
<philipballew> i have a bit now. let see whats up
<pleia2> otherwise looks great
<philipballew> I should really use ubuntu forms more instead of spending hours swearing at my problems. looks like a really helpful place
<pleia2> it is, but don't use their search (it's not very good), use google and do: site:ubuntuforums.org blah blah my problem
<philipballew> I wonder what is better, that or askubuntu. I know all the buzz is around askubuntu these days, but more people might go to the forms as its been around longer
<philipballew> yeah, I know we all have our opinions
<pleia2> askubuntu is tiny compared to ubuntuforums.org
<pleia2> thousands of accounts compared to millions
 * philipballew wonders how long till they change to the new ubuntu design
<pleia2> soon, an upgrade to the forums has been in the works for 2 years now, including a new theme
<pleia2> there have been a lot of barriers because the software itself wasn't quite built to scale to 2 million users, and Mark has been insisting that it require openid support, which has to be wedged in and they lacked the developers for it
<pleia2> they finally have a test instance up with the new version, and one of the devs made a breakthrough last week openid-wise :)
<philipballew> nice! the community is really helping these days
<pleia2> ubuntuforums.org is an entirely community-run effort, except for hosting itself which canonical has donated
<pleia2> to be honest, much of this upgrade waiting has been waiting for canonical to do stuff :\
<philipballew> pleia2, sometimes it seems we wait on them a fair amount
<pleia2> yeah, but they've gotten better so I can't complain a whole lot
<philipballew> agreed. There very nice.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-04-01
<jyo> pleia2: Wait... xubuntu rebasing on Debian?
<pleia2> jyo: it's tomorrow in europe
<jyo> damn europeans and their time zone superiority.
<jyo> w
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-03-25
 * pleia2 waves
<pleia2> team meeting in 10 minutes or so
<pleia2> ok, meeting time!
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<darthrobot`> Meeting started Mon Mar 25 02:00:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> who all is here for the team meeting? :)
 * eps waves
<philballew> here
 * grantbow waves
<pleia2> we had an ubuntu hour in SF recently, and someone else called the debian hour, was fun :)
<pleia2> Rick Moen has been coming to the debian dinners lately
<philballew> who is that?
<pleia2> he's the king of all bay area linux things ;)
<pleia2> runs a bunch of the mailing lists, old school linux guy
<pleia2> he maintains http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ too
<darthrobot`> Title: [The BALE -- Bay Area Linux Events]
 * philballew thought pleia2 was king (or queen is she prefers) of bay area Linux.
<pleia2> I am really a newbie here
<eps> Are you going to be around for a regularly-scheduled S.F. Ubuntu Hour?
<eps> (in April)
<pleia2> yep
<philballew> I will be at your may one probably if I am up there. June will not be as I will be south the border.
<pleia2> and in May
<grantbow> Ubuntu Hour in March was fun :-)
<pleia2> no, not in may
<philballew> If you need someone to run that one, I might be able to cover that
<pleia2> I don't "own" it, so anyone is welcome to organize and call it if they're around :)
<grantbow> It's just a matter of showing up and being friendly.
<grantbow> we should do one every day in SF, lol
<grantbow> "we" ;-)
<philballew> Where two ubuntu users are gathered, an Ubuntu hour is there.
<eps> pleia2: April 10 S.F. Ubuntu Hour + B.A.D.?
<pleia2> eps: that's the plan
<eps> pleia: please post to ML and add to LoCo directory when finalized
<pleia2> always do :)
<grantbow> wow
<pleia2> anyone else have anything upcoming or ideas they wish to talk about?
<eps> Release Party for 13.04? -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/RaringRelease
<darthrobot`> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/RaringRelease - Ubuntu Wiki]
<philballew> eps, pleia2 is a busy person, she doesnt always have the time for those things.
<pleia2> philballew: I always do them :(
<pleia2> I won't be around for the release, so if someone wants to do the SF one, please do :)
<philballew> pleia2, yes,and thank you for doing all you are able to.
 * philballew has to go
<eps> Raring's Final Beta is due April 4; grantbow has an Ubuntu Hour in Berkeley on April 6 (might be an opportunity to distribute copies for testing?).
<grantbow> philballew: wow
<grantbow> eps: are you making said copies?
<eps> The Release is due April 25. BerkeleyLUG meets on the 28th, so we might want to do something in conjunction with that.
<eps> grantbow: Maybe. We also have SF-LUG on April 7, so it makes sense.
<grantbow> eps: if you are volunteering, great. If not please stop volunteering others to do work you think might "make sense"
<pleia2> it's ok to toss ideas out there
<pleia2> (but yeah, if they don't pan out, best way to make sure they do is to volunteer :))
<eps> grantbow: The release is a month away. If we don't start talking about it now, it's NEVER going to happen. This group is not adept at doing anything last-minute.
<eps> I'm not volunteering people; this is a call for volunteers. If I mention someone by name, they've already been contacted.
<eps> O
 * grantbow shrugs
<eps> grantbow: you're not obligated to do anything.
<pleia2> eps: perhaps you can drum up some support by posting some thoughts to the mailing list?
<pleia2> I fly to philly for my wedding on the 23rd, so I won't be around for a while
<pleia2> (eeeek that's a month away!)
<eps> If Ubuntu adopts rolling releases, there may not be any Release Parties after this one.
<pleia2> they voted not to
<pleia2> they just cut the support time for non-lts 6 month releases to 9 months instead of 18
<eps> I was under the impression the idea wasn't dead ... it's just going to be tweaked and reintroduced.
<pleia2> and they'll have a "development" branch that people can subscribe to, that won't have releases, always development
<eps> Next month features a trio of EOLs.
<grantbow> makes sense - blog posts on that and related stuff at http://princessleia.com/journal/
<darthrobot`> Title: [pleia2's blog]
<eps> Perhaps we should be planning a wake?
<pleia2> well, the tech board announcement is here: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/03/19/changes-in-ubuntu-releases-decided-by-the-ubuntu-technical-board/
<darthrobot`> Title: [Changes in Ubuntu releases decided by the Ubuntu Technical Board]
<pleia2> (my blog doesn't really talk about that directly :))
<grantbow> ah, my mistake
<grantbow> your blog is very informative though :-)
<pleia2> thanks!
<pleia2> ok, so release is a month away, some EOLs - 8.04 (hardy) server, 10.04 (lucid) deskop and 11.10
<pleia2> (oneiric)
<pleia2> anyone else have anything?
<pleia2> alright, thanks everyone :)
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<darthrobot`> Meeting ended Mon Mar 25 02:31:22 2013 UTC.
<darthrobot`> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2013/ubuntu-us-ca.2013-03-25-02.00.moin.txt
<grantbow> thanks for chairing pleia2
<MarkDude> jono can you see the link invite? https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/cia534tt9ugov5ukuptgcs81jkg
<darthrobot`> [R: plus.google.com] Title: [Google+]
<MarkDude> The settings appear to be private, only invitees can see it. It should be open, and its a community setting I need to change
<jono> MarkDude hey
<jono> sorry, won't be able to make it - we are away at the weekend
<jono> thanks for the invite though
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-03-26
<pleia2> philipballew: did we get any hats in the scale conference pack?
<philipballew> pleia2, no we did not :(
<pleia2> bkerensa: ^^
<pleia2> so it looks like they changed up the packs recently, no more hats :(
<philipballew> 4 shirts, some buttons, and some stickers iirc.
<pleia2> I was all "oh yeah, they're still there" /lies
<philipballew> pleia2, whats up with our old banner from before we got the approved one?
<pleia2> philipballew: it's in my closet
<pleia2> I picked it up from mpaoli a couple weeks ago
<pleia2> (he brought it to the last sf ubuntu hour)
<philipballew> pleia2, I see! probably good we have a banner in both parts of the state just in case someone needs one in a hurry.
<pleia2> philipballew: yeah, I'm actually checking with canonical to see if we can buy a second one from them
<pleia2> would probably end up cheaper than me shipping it all over the place all the time :\
<philipballew> pleia2, how much would that costs us?
<pleia2> it's like $10-15 each time
<pleia2> not sure, they're looking into it for me
<philipballew> pleia2, I saw the shipping label when you shipped it to ib.
<pleia2> I think that was the cheapest one since it wasn't a rush :)
<pleia2> still like $8-something I think?
<philipballew> something like that yeah.
<pleia2> to be honest the old banner is really too old to be used
<pleia2> unless we're trying to be funny :)
<pleia2> retro ubuntu booth!
<philipballew> pleia2, If you ever need to get rid of it, let me know and ill use it for the san diego stuff. But I am sure we can find some use maybe?
<pleia2> yeah
<philipballew> Maybe a dance mat?
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> we've used it as a 2nd banner for some booths
<pleia2> like solano stroll
<philipballew> I or someone could use it for a google hangout background maybe.
<pleia2> it was on the outside: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6138397951/in/set-72157627650086116
<darthrobot`> Title: [IMG_1699 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
<pleia2> inside was new one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6138397205/in/set-72157627650086116/
<darthrobot`> Title: [IMG_1696 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
<pleia2> "hide my messy office!"
<philipballew> your office looks nice!
<pleia2> yeah, my favorite part about my office is the mac in the background
<pleia2> http://princessleia.com/images/journalpics/032013/leadership_hangout_0319.jpg
<darthrobot`> Content type: [image/jpeg] Size: [184782]
<philipballew> Way to be a hipster with your mac pleia2
<philipballew> :)
<pleia2> I actually did clean up that filing cabinet after that hangout :)
<pleia2> still has a mac on it though
<pleia2> (sadly, nothing else to sync my fitbit with)
<philipballew> Read something from Leigh about that last week or so.
<philipballew> They look interesting.
<pleia2> it's silly, but it works for me
<pleia2> 1.43 miles traveled today
<pleia2> I haven't left my condo
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> that's a lot of wandering around home!
<philipballew> You usually work outside right pleia2 ?
<pleia2> I try for 2-3 hours on days when it's warm enough
<pleia2> not today, too cold, not sunny
<philipballew> pleia2, oh nice, gotta get that wedding tan because sf is a great place to tan?
<pleia2> my tan situation is a mess :) my maid of honor is going to freak
<pleia2> I have a wicked farmer's tan!
<pleia2> so smart for my sleeveless dress
<philipballew> s/wicked/hella
<pleia2> hella wicked
<pleia2> there, maine and california :)
<philipballew> do you like your dress though?
<pleia2> love it
 * pleia2 princess
<pleia2> :)
<philipballew> thats cool. So where are you going after the wedding?
<pleia2> mexico!
<philipballew> Hey! Thats hella cool. What part?
<pleia2> yucatan peninsula, doing the resort thing for a week, then exploring some mayan ruins for a week
<philipballew> oh nice, that sounds good. I am gonna fly down there in June for a month. (think I said that to you earlier). I'm sure your gonna be really excited to take a break from life on the Honeymoon.
<pleia2> yeah, we talked about your trip :)
<pleia2> very excited, it's been a long.. year
<philipballew> For sure, You gonna ply there from Philly?
<pleia2> yep
 * philipballew remembers where pleia2 is getting married.
<pleia2> gold star!
<philipballew> If only.You seem to have been tired a lot lately. Hope you can get away from the Internet/work and stuff.
<pleia2> yeah, I have :\
<pleia2> new job + wedding planning + ubuntu dramaz
<philipballew> Ubuntu is back on track though, and your wedding is gonna be great!
<pleia2> that's what I'm saying :)
<philipballew> at least you get to travel with your job!
<pleia2> yeah, I love my job
<philipballew> I assume your gonna live tweet your wedding?
<pleia2> haha, doubtful
<philipballew> lol, I have a lot of friends here who have live streamed their wedding so school friends to poor to fly there can see. I did it once, but it was kinda weird.
<pleia2> going pretty traditional with the wedding stuff
<pleia2> we'll have a videographer though, so if it's not horrible and/or boring it may be shareable
<philipballew> Traditional weddings are nice because they can be "low key"
<pleia2> yeah, no surprises :)
<philipballew> I have a good friend getting married in Pennsylvania in May as well. Pittsburgh though, so not anything like Philly. Hope you have a nice time!
<pleia2> thanks!
<bkerensa> epic fail
<bkerensa> im awake for no reason :(
 * bkerensa blames UTC
<philipballew> bkerensa, Sleep is overrated
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-03-27
<raevol> openmw 0.22.0: http://i.imgur.com/tdpSwO4.jpg
<darthrobot`> Content type: [image/jpeg] Size: [466328]
<MarkDude> philipballew: ping
<philipballew> MarkDude, hello there
<MarkDude> I have some Pi pics, was gonna post them on G+
 * MarkDude created pb tag for you, decided I was not in need of tagging peanut butter in shorthand
<raevol> philipballew: check out that swagger
<raevol> in that screenshot
<philipballew> raevol, what screenshot we talkin bout?
<raevol> philipballew: http://i.imgur.com/tdpSwO4.jpg
<darthrobot`> Content type: [image/jpeg] Size: [466328]
<philipballew> You look nice today raevol
<raevol> just out for a stroll in my steel armor by vivec
<philipballew> I could never get the hang of video games
<philipballew> MarkDude, I like peanut butter
<philipballew> if anyone wants to but me peanut butter. I wont stop the, just sayin...
<raevol> philipballew: probably too many gui elements i am guessing
<raevol> you'd probably like nethack
<raevol> or dwarf fortress
<philipballew> raevol, I used to own a gamecube. I was the worst player ever!!!
<raevol> not enough keys on the controller
<philipballew> I use ubuntu, I dont need to game!
<MarkDude> swagger indeed
<MarkDude> And you just reminded me of I like turtles kid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y
<darthrobot`> Title: [Zombie Kid Likes Turtles - YouTube]
 * MarkDude like peanut butter also
<philipballew> is that you MarkDude ?
<MarkDude> Should have been - but nope
<MarkDude> Will you be on for a bit?
 * MarkDude needs to reboot to warth of KDE
<MarkDude> warmth rather
<MarkDude> Yay
<MarkDude> And I imported logs
<MarkDude> Uploading
<MarkDude> Pic of pb that is
<philipballew> MarkDude, how hard is it to get a fedora ambassidor from down here to go help at oscon with you?
<philipballew> he needs sponsorship.
<MarkDude> Um, that would be better to aaask in say a non non-Ubuntu channe;
<MarkDude> maybe offtopic
<MarkDude> Or maybe #bamf even
 * MarkDude is gonna have a Fedora cloak soon, so I want to be a well behaved guest. Promoting Pi events is fine. Its all about FOSS
<MarkDude> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/105095769731159704550/albums/5859866335452004977/5859866408534362450
<darthrobot`> [R: plus.google.com] Title: [Raspberry Pi, food, friends, fun - Google+]
<philipballew> Hey people of San Fransico, would any one of you let me crash on your couch so I can make an 8am flight to Texas Linux Fest on may 28th?
<philipballew> I have cookies!
 * MarkDude is too far away to be useful for SF
<philipballew> MarkDude, your like 40 minutes right?
<MarkDude> Driving there is more like an hour+
<MarkDude> Its not downtown SF, its like South SF
<philipballew> I see. Must take a while if you need to get to the airport then
<MarkDude> Yes
<MarkDude> Pi party here next Sat- you gonna be around?
<philipballew> MarkDude, nope. Currently at school in San Diego.
<philipballew> however there is a ubuntu meetup here tomorrow. You should come!
<philipballew> drive 20 hours total. Totally worth it
 * philipballew should not be taken seriously sometimes
<philipballew> MarkDude, will Jim Whitehurst  be there?
<MarkDude> Most likely not
<philipballew> MarkDude, If Jim Whitehurst  is not there, then I don't think I can make it.
<MarkDude> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/105095769731159704550/albums/5557525525533286017/5562271994879571762
<darthrobot`> [R: plus.google.com] Title: [Satire - Google+]
<MarkDude> The dude on the right will be there
<MarkDude> Maybe bring his lightsaber
<MarkDude> Awesome pic of the Princess in that album also :)
<akk> haha -- have to say, pleia2 looks better with her normal hairstyle, her nick notwithstanding
<akk> great pic though
 * MarkDude should redo his blog
<pleia2> I will never get over larry as yoda
<pleia2> it always makes me laugh
<MarkDude> That was from a FOSS Wars parody- and those are folks that I feel have been an inspiration
<akk> They're all funny!
<MarkDude> Karsten also. Quite a few people thought I just took a regular pic of him and put it in
<MarkDude> akk- you free Sat?
<MarkDude> Pi party
 * MarkDude is using both FB and G+ for events. 
<akk> I saw (though the last msg I got said it was cancelled). Probably can't make it, though.
<MarkDude> Some folks said FB was not grownup enough
<akk> A few more months and this should be over and I should be back to being a full-time bay area resident.
<MarkDude> Hmmmm, events on G+ do odd things
 * MarkDude plans on using DVLUG  ML primarily for Pi events
<akk> I filter FB and G+ notices to the same folder, didn't notice there were two different places so I can't say which one told me it was cancelled.
<MarkDude> Unless grantbow threatens to beat me up again
 * MarkDude kids- G has never threatened me
<akk> I definitely am interested in Pi events, in a few months.
<MarkDude> Sure.
<MarkDude> The plan is to grow it to other ARM eventually
<MarkDude> The movie the Graduate? The futurre is in ARM
<MarkDude> Aand plastics
<MarkDude> akk, the main thing is trying to figure what Distro works best for usecase
<MarkDude> Fedora makes a great server, and might be better if SELinux works for ARM
<MarkDude> Media tho- XBMC is the leader.
<MarkDude> Sexycatsinhats has a decent raspbian server going
<akk> I've only used raspbian and the adafruit variant of it.
<akk> (doesn't seem to be much difference between the two)
<MarkDude> XBMC and a wireless numpad = media center
<akk> But it doesn't work well for media at all -- movie playing stutters badly.
<MarkDude> Codec depending
<pleia2> I don't think I'd want to use a distro that releases every 6 months on a pi, even doing standard day to day upgrades is intensive :)
<pleia2> (I'm using regular rasbian)
<pleia2> raspbian too
 * MarkDude has read that forcing 720 is the way to go
<MarkDude> As well as forcing sound hdmi
<akk> I was kind of surprised how badly it did on video considering how packed it is with video connectors.
<pleia2> mine also just runs an irc client
 * pleia2 points to R2Pi2 
<akk> (I wish they'd exposed more GPIO/serial stuff and worried less about video outputs)
<MarkDude> Those pieces added to even Raspbian install and used to fire up media player- works nice
<MarkDude> Yes akk, GPIO was sumthin' that made me think of you
 * MarkDude has background in electronics, and wants to solder some stuff
<akk> I was following it from the beginning because of the GPIO, but I've been a bit disappointed in it for robotics.
<akk> You can do stuff, but you have to bend over backwards and use a lot of add-on hardware.
 * MarkDude came to conclusion Pi+ Arduino= robotic fun
<MarkDude> Also some ADa stuff too
<akk> Yeah, using it with an arduino makes things easy. But that's a bit bulky (unless you use a tiny arduino variant).
<akk> Also using 3.3v and being so picky about input voltage means you have to use level converters and be super careful.
<MarkDude> snes is sumthin' that looks fun also
<MarkDude> lol- the voltages seem odd for some purposes
<MarkDude> Hmm, adapter to make your wifi work-
<MarkDude> to keep it from emitting *magic smoke*
<akk> snes? wikipedia says that's super nintendo?
<MarkDude> Yep
<MarkDude> Retro gaming
<MarkDude> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BAMF/Pi
<darthrobot`> Title: [BAMF/Pi - FedoraProject]
 * MarkDude is taking a *greater good of FOSS* stance on the Pi here.
 * MarkDude would be being silly to push for Fedora to be used in ALL cases of course XD
<MarkDude> Raspbian based is 90% with some small installs of Puppy and others
<MarkDude> You able to do a G+ hangout at some point akk?
<MarkDude> Even tho you being involved is a few months away, it would be nice to have you help *steer* some
<MarkDude> Input from folks is needed :)
<akk> I'm not sure -- a friend tried to include me in some hangouts but google never sent me the invite.
<MarkDude> We can sort out details, rumor has it your sorta smart
<akk> I don't have a camera here, but do have one at home.
<MarkDude> and that using your like that bugged you :D
<akk> I tried their test hangout thing and it made my camera make awful squealing noises, but a real hangout might work.
<pleia2> the hangouts have links, so if you have some other way to contact someone (like IRC :)) you can just give them the link to join
<MarkDude> you are
<pleia2> I find the invites to be really unreliable
<akk> (wish they had a way to do them other than a binary plug-in)
<MarkDude> Agreed
<akk> pleia2: Yeah, I asked her that and she couldn't seem to find a link to send me.
<MarkDude> the other idea is to have folks submit an idea or goal, and have another be a proxy
<pleia2> we pretty much exclusively use the links for CC hangouts
<MarkDude> Good idea on streamlining links. FB does events a bit better, altho folks say not grownup enough
 * MarkDude needs to go do menial tasks ....
<bkerensa> woah bat signal
<philballew> kdub, so will you be there tomorrow?
<kdub> philballew, trying to swing it, cant confirm yet though
<raevol> i'll meeeesss you kdub, i can't make it
<raevol> i wanted to harass you about Mir
<raevol> but now i can't D:
<kdub> hah, i hope i can make it
<kdub> i have fun demos to show!
<raevol> q_q
<philballew> kdub, Alright, hope to see you there!
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-03-29
<philipballew> kdub, makin your way down?
<philipballew> SD Ubuntu hour is goin good
<philipballew> 6 people including myself
<akk> Hi everybody in SD!
<philipballew> hello akk!
<MarkDude> Hmmm BAMF account was erased apparently on G+
<philipballew> Any cool San Fransico people wanna let me sleep on their floor/couch on Monday may 27th so I can catch as early flight to texas linux fest?
<pleia2> probably
<raevol> philipballew: how was the ubuntu hour
<philipballew> pleia2, yeah, probably someone
<raevol> philipballew snubs me because i had to miss the ubuntu hour :(
<raevol> i'm sorry philipballew i am sorry!
<philipballew> raevol, had 5 new people. Went really well
<raevol> wow that's like more than double?
<raevol> ubuntu is hot in san diego
<philipballew> Ubuntu is getting pretty hip
<philipballew> Might outgrow the venue sooner or later
<raevol> hehehe
<philballew> pleia2, did you do post meeting, or would you like me to tackle that?
<pleia2> philballew: if you have time, it'd be great if you could take care of it :)
<philballew> pleia2, alright!
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-03-30
<MarkDude> philballew: can you see this invite? https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/109348143786864357004
<darthrobot`> [R: plus.google.com] Title: [BAMF - Google+]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-03-24
<pleia2> meeting in 10 minutes
<ianorlin> yay
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Mar 24 02:00:42 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> ok, who all is here for the meeting?
<ianorlin> o/
<pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/14March23
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/14March23 - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> ianorlin: guess it's just you and me!
<ianorlin> ok
<pleia2> maybe others will trickle in :)
<pleia2> #topic 14.04 Release planning
<pleia2> so at the last meeting I said I'd email some folks about possible venues for our release party
<pleia2> in SF
<pleia2> I contacted bkerensa to see about Mozilla's SF office, but haven't heard back yet
<pleia2> jyo put me in touch with some folks from AdRoll over on mission between 5th and 6th who have forwarded the request to their events department
<ianorlin> I don't know anything about places in SF
<nhaines> Hello everyone. :)
<pleia2> indeed, socal should also look into some venues if you wish to do one :)
<pleia2> that's all the updates from me really, if these two don't pan out I can chat with wikimedia or a few others
<pleia2> I should probably send a mail to the list to encourage other areas to get things going planning-wise in case they don't read meeting logs
 * ianorlin needs to get added to mailing list
<pleia2> ianorlin: can sign up here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca
<darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu-us-ca Info Page]
<pleia2> anyone else have any comments re: release parties at this time?
<pleia2> less than a month away :)
<ianorlin> sounds like a good idea but would get nervous on phone
<nhaines> pleia2: installfest in May?  :)
<pleia2> I don't know a whole lot about the phone to be honest
<pleia2> nhaines: should do!
<ianorlin> no I meant making phone calls sorry
<nhaines> OCLUG is having a installfest on May 24th.  We'll need CDs and a conference pack if possible.
<nhaines> This time they have the support of quite a few department heads so there should be a good turnout.
<nhaines> They've agreed to promote Ubuntu, although we'll install anything someone explicitly asks for.
<rww> oh, meeting
<pleia2> nhaines: can you browse over to https://forms.canonical.com/locopack/ and email me the answers to questions?
<rww> o/
<darthrobot> Title: [Local Community (LoCo) conference pack request]
<pleia2> nhaines: I can put in the request
<pleia2> re: conference pack
<nhaines> And I'll be giving a presentation.  Probably I'll make the slides available online shortly after 14.04 launch.
<pleia2> cool
<nhaines> And yes, I'll be happy to get those answers to you, thanks.  :)
<pleia2> ianorlin: I never make phone calls, all email :) icky phones
<nhaines> Hopefully the slides will be useful to anyone in California (or the world!) who wants to give a similar presentation.  :)
<rww> (or Ubuntu Mars)
<pleia2> nhaines: 14.04 release-specific?
<nhaines> That's about it.  We'll have an Android tablet giveaway and the date isn't announced to the LUG yet.  Should be good fun and anyone near Cal State Fullerton is welcome to pitch in.
<nhaines> pleia2: yup.
<pleia2> nhaines: cool, I'd love to get an early preview, hope to give a talk around here too
<nhaines> I've been using the slides since the 8.04 LTS specific talk I gave at North Orange County Computer Club, so it's time to do a major revamp instead of revisions.
<nhaines> pleia2: I'd love any feedback.  I'll get you something early next month.  :)
<pleia2> perfect :)
<rww> things are slightly different since 8.04 :P
<nhaines> rww: it's been updated but I want to make something fancier.
<nhaines> rww: read: orange.  :P
<rww> with dots!
<nhaines> Dots are forthcoming.  :)
<nhaines> That's all I have on release parties right now.
<pleia2> thanks nhaines
<rww> i've got nothing. was going to look at survey thing today but ended up Ingressing and getting a sunburn instead
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> spring++
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
<pleia2> any other topics anyone wishes to bring up?
<nhaines> Oh, who has the banner down here?
<nhaines> I might want to borrow it.  :)
 * ianorlin doesn't have a banner
<pleia2> I think philip has it
<nhaines> Okay.  I'll ping him later.
<rww> the one that was at SCaLE? i'd guess philip too
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> ok, guess we can wrap it up then
<pleia2> thanks ianorlin, nhaines and rww :)
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Mar 24 02:23:05 2014 UTC.
<darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2014/ubuntu-us-ca.2014-03-24-02.00.moin.txt
<nhaines> pleia2: a pleasure.  :)
<bkerensa> pleia2: I will check with SF office on Monday and see if we can secure the space for the release party just need to have a staff chaperone since we have a number of Ubuntu users at that office it might be doable :)
<pleia2> confirmed our release party at AdRoll \o/
<pleia2> it's at 972 Mission St
<pleia2> bkerensa: I sent you an email, perhaps they'd be up for hosting a weekend installfest instead?
<nhaines> yay!
<bkerensa> pleia2: Ahh yeah they were just getting a host for the release party
<bkerensa> but ok yeah the installfest would probably work too
<bkerensa> and maybe I can have Mozilla fly me down
<pleia2> bkerensa: sorry, didn't hear back from you so I started looking elsewhere
<bkerensa> pleia2:  sorry yeah all @ubuntu.com email gets filtered to a label I only check monthly
<bkerensa> :)
 * pleia2 makes note to send from other address ;)
<raevol> wow
<raevol> the amount of rabble rousing and chest beating going on about mir is amazing
<raevol> i guess i shouldn't be surprised, it's about par for a geek issue, but still...
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-03-25
<arrith> woo! lts party!
<nhaines> Yay, party!
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-03-26
<rww> nhaines: AtomicSpark (IRC nick, active now) wants details about that installfest thing and is thinking of (read: I told him to) volunteering. You should PM him :D
<rww> oh, he joined right as I said that
<nhaines> yay
<nhaines> AtomicSpark: so basically OCLUG is having an installfest on May 24th.  And we need installers. :)
<nhaines> For the installfest, we're only promoting Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.  Anyone who comes in and asks for something else will get it, but otherwise they get Ubuntu.
<AtomicSpark> nhaines: I am on the wiki/website currently. Where is this located?
<nhaines> AtomicSpark: nowhere, although I do need to get it up on the wiki.
<nhaines> AtomicSpark: this is going to be updated soon: http://www.oclug.org/installfest.html
<darthrobot> Title: [OCLUG Installfest]
<AtomicSpark> nhaines: What happens if, I don't have a portable pc anymore and just an android tablet? :p
<nhaines> AtomicSpark: then you have to come and help.  :P
<toddc> nhaines: use drive droid to install LINUX from a tablet
<toddc> ERR AtomicSpark  sorry
<arrith> pleia2: ping. sorry i haven't followed super closely about bkerensa goings-on; is there an installfest? or there might be one? (for LTS 14.04 release party celebration nacho slam extravaganza)
<arrith> presented by pepsi(r)
<philipballew> ohh action in the channel!
<arrith> approaching cage-match-level actionnn
<arrith> philipballew: are you going to the 14.04 sf parttyy?!
<rww> arrith: last I heard it was in SF but not at Mozilla because we got a sponsor elsewhere before we heard back from Moz, but not 100%
<rww> s/$/on whether that's correct
<nhaines> AtomicSpark: anyway, installfests are pretty simple, but we definitely need a few more people.  If you've never done one before, I can show you the ropes.
<arrith> "confirmed our release party at AdRoll "  was said earlier
<nhaines> And we have an OCLUG meeting in April, so you can come in and see the location if you'd like.
<arrith> not sure if it's too late to move from there to mozilla, or vice versa
<nhaines> I'm planning to give a short presentation next month.
<arrith> wonder if bkerensa works at moz
<philipballew> arrith, Sure, if I had the money for a plane ticket.
<arrith> philipballew: you're not in us-ca?
<philipballew> arrith, Yes I am.
<nhaines> arrith: California is the size of a small country.
<philipballew> nhaines, +1
<arrith> well the installfest isn't for a few days. :P
<arrith> also $1 bus
<philipballew> arrith, California is not just the bay, despite what they all claim there.
<philipballew> arrith, No.
<arrith> No.
<philipballew> There is no one dollar bus to sf from there I live.
<arrith> oh
<rww> We don't claim it's all just the bay, that would break our complaining about y'all stealing our water.
<philipballew> You get all your power from dams towards Nevada to.
<philipballew> arrith, Where do you live?
<arrith> philipballew: east bay, walnut creek area
<philipballew> arrith, Oh cool. I was just in Fairfield last week.
<arrith> ah nice. i'm actually super geographically challenged to the point that i have to google map all these cities on job postings to see if i'm actually okay with their commute
<arrith> philipballew: what's tying you to not-the-bay?
<philipballew> arrith, My friends, and school, and life.
<arrith> philipballew: ah, so not much then :P
<arrith> dang well
<philipballew> arrith, I actually really like where I live.
<arrith> hope you have an LTS party there. for the holiday spirit
<arrith> that's good
 * rww ponders recruiting for Ingress
<philipballew> arrith, Planning on it actually. Probably more low key then yours up there, but were a more low key people down here.
<philipballew> arrith, where you you from?
<arrith> born n raised east bay. sometimes worry that not going too far from where you were born is a bad sign, but i love me some SV/SF
<philipballew> Nice. I was born and raised in Auburn.
<arrith> ah wow, definitely norcal
<arrith> rww: if you mean the mobile game, i take it that's not really a paid position :P
<philipballew> Above the fog, below the snow.
<philipballew> arrith, Often I have to just tell people I am from Sac though.
<arrith> yeah i stick to east bay, not many people know the smaller cities/towns
<philipballew> arrith, for sure.
<philipballew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtAZ8jXYL-w
<darthrobot> Title: [Middle Of The Road - Sacramento [HQ stereo] - YouTube]
<rww> arrith: true, but it's fun!
<rww> especially if you're Resistance :>
<arrith> haha
<philipballew> Auburn is fun if you like weed, or dirt bikes.
<philipballew> Were the Reddest county in the state also.
<rww> anyways, back to LoCo stuff...
<arrith> haha wow
<arrith> uhm
<rww> AtomicSpark: go to installfest thing!
<arrith> installfests could use a pxe server potentially. not sure if that's been done
<rww> arrith: go to release party thing!
<rww> yay, I am good at my leading thing
<arrith> hail the leader
<philipballew> arrith, If you come to my release party, I'll give you a dollar.
<philipballew> maybe two!
 * AtomicSpark strokes unix beard
<rww> philipballew: you're having a release party?
<philipballew> rww, Yes.
<rww> philipballew: where?
<arrith> philipballew: commuting for not-lots-of-money is tough for me
<philipballew> either starbucks or INO rww
<philipballew> probably ino.
<rww> philipballew: I meant city, but okays :P
<philipballew> rww, SD
<arrith> i guess usb sticks are easier than router plus lots of ethernet cables
<AtomicSpark> arrith: Yes.
<arrith> and more people need to use stuff like 'plop' (boot cd thing that lets you then boot to usb on computers that don't boot to usb in the bios. but i guess it's closed src :( )
<AtomicSpark> Also configuring a thing.
<philipballew> I got some buddies from tj coming up to help out rww so it should be good.
<arrith> AtomicSpark: yeah i guess it doesn't take that much longer to write an iso to a usb stick than pxe stuff
<AtomicSpark> arrith: tbh, I'd just use a CD, works for everything.
<arrith> AtomicSpark: ah yeah. i actually wonder what people use the most these days
<arrith> would be awesome if canonical shipped out pressed stuff
<rww> philipballew: can you throw details at the mailing list this week so people can plan for it?
<arrith> score me some five-finger-discounted^Wfree swag
<AtomicSpark> arrith: I still use CDs.
<AtomicSpark> Though, didn't Ubuntu go DVD only?
<philipballew> rww, I can set up an event, but I am gonna wait till two weeks from release to start tlking about it. People will forget.
<rww> arrith: they do ship pressed stuff, we had some for Southern California Linux Expo :)
<philipballew> maybe even a week.
<arrith> rww: LTS only i thought?
<philipballew> I only install Ubuntu via luetooth these days.
<rww> philipballew: mention it now /and/ we'll be sending out an email with details for all three events week before/of
<philipballew> bluetooth
<nhaines> AtomicSpark: they're DVDs, which, by the way, we will have shipped out by Canonical.
<nhaines> Which is a thing that they do.
<arrith> AtomicSpark: oh yeah, i'm doing DVD only i guess. hm, actually i don't know how many computers that show up to installfests have CD drives or not
<rww> arrith: correct
<rww> philipballew: that way everyone's on the same page without reading through IRC, which most don't :)
<philipballew> rww, I can make an event on the loco portal thursday night.
<arrith> rww: think they'll have 14.04 pressed discs for the installfest?
<philipballew> Maybe Wednesday night, but I have to run to Mexico for the night so we will see how long till  get back.
<AtomicSpark> Remind me, does the Ubuntu installer have an option to use up-to-date packages during install? Would make pressed dvds have a longer shelf life.
<rww> AtomicSpark: yes
<AtomicSpark> I get paraoid about those minor releases.
<philipballew> AtomicSpark, iirc, you can install updates when installing from cd
<rww> arrith: ship time for pressed CDs is two weeks after release ( http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2014/03/13/14-04-dvdscds-pre-orders-now-open-for-verified-loco-teams/ )
<darthrobot> Title: [Loco Council | 14.04 DVDs/CDs: Pre-Orders now open for verified LoCo Teams!]
 * arrith falls to knees and shouts to the sky
<jose> or what it takes to produce+ship, 2 weeks is just an estimate :)
<rww> yep
<rww> "not in time for installfest" was the main takeaway there
<arrith> wow 150 and 25, that's not bad
<philipballew> Fedora does flash drives
<jose> oh :(
<rww> nice
<rww> wish we could, but money...
<jose> when's the installfest?
<jose> and customs ;)
<rww> indeedy
<arrith> hm
<arrith> probably a way to get bulk inexpensive usb stuff. they have those paper ones even
<rww> jose: don't think the LUG that's doing it made the date public yet, they're still sorting things out
<philipballew> rww, Do I need to tell you or lyz I need cd's or is it assumed?
<philipballew> what lug are we talking about?
<jose> philipballew: a guy in SD asked me for DVDs via the loco-council ML and he said he was going to get to you
<rww> philipballew: dunno, ask Lyz, she's been sorting out CD stuff I think
<rww> philipballew: OCLUG. Might want to read meeting log when you get a chance :)
<nhaines> Retail DVDs are cents a unit.  Bulk USB keys are dollars per unit.
<philipballew> jose, someone emailed me looking for ubuntu events in sd.
<jose> hmm
<philipballew> I am emailing him back this week.
<AtomicSpark> Unless you're in Australia.
<nhaines> jose: we pushed the date back a month at your suggestion.  :P
<jose> nhaines: you better announce the date in the channel, then?
<jose> :P
<philipballew> AtomicSpark, Not sure we can trust Australasia, their toilets flush the wrong way.
<jose> philipballew: no, YOUR toilets flush the wrong way
<rww> i don't even know what way my toilet flushes :(
<nhaines> jose: I did, during the last meeting.  But it's going on the wiki soon.  The LUG hasn't announced the date yet.  :P
<arrith> that can only be settled with thermonuclear war
<philipballew> I have a friend who went to Kenya and they flush down with no swirl when you are right on the equator.
<philipballew> arrith, si.
<AtomicSpark> philipballew: Thats because of design flaw, not gravity.
<AtomicSpark> rww: clockwise.
<philipballew> AtomicSpark, clocks are overrated. I prefer the sun.
<jose> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Murphy%27s_law_application_for_antigravitatory_cats
<darthrobot> Title: [Murphy's law application for antigravitatory cats - Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia]
<philipballew> AtomicSpark, Wanna go to the down under with me?
<philipballew> Lets go right now!
<arrith> australian food is probably pretty good
<philipballew> I actually wanna go to Perth. I let this dude I met on the internet sleep on my loor for a week who lives there.
<arrith> they should have more australian restaurants. there are brazillian places around the bay area but not australian, that i've seen
<arrith> philipballew: oh nice, quid pro quo
<philipballew> I met a guy who said he would let me crash on his cargo ship for free if I work a little bit, and work a little bit for food.
<philipballew> and he said after a month I would end up in Australasia.
<nhaines> That sounds like the way cargo ships work.
<philipballew> nhaines, Living within walking distance from a shipping harbor/port has its advantages.
<philipballew> arrith, Does the city have austrillian food?
<rww> what is australian food
<arrith> philipballew: i'm not sure. haven't looked. taht sounds good though
<rww> kangaroo?
<nhaines> rww: crisps and boiled meats.
 * philipballew just had a California burrito.
<philipballew> ^ jose
<jose> philipballew: I hate hate hate you
<jose> I've been wanting a burrito since I left the US :(
<philipballew> jose, so I should avoid tweeting about all the tacos I eat tomorrow in Tijuana?
<nhaines> jose: you can always make one. :)
<philipballew> jose, o, y mucho cervesa.
<jose> philipballew: tacos are fine, burritos aren't
<philipballew> burritos are bomb
<jose> nhaines: still don't know how to make those awesome ones I had in SD
<arrith> rww: mayybe
<jose> philipballew: beer, well, I'm <18 fyi
<arrith> you can import stuff
<philipballew> jose, TIL Peru has a drinking age
<arrith> this like one famous halal cart thing in NY i went to once is so good i keep thinking of paying some courier to pack one in ice and ship it to me. it'd be like $50 though and i can't justify that price
<arrith> peru the land of the lawless has no laws!
<nhaines> jose: tortilla, refried beans, maybe some rice, shredded cheese, guacamole.... meat-based protein as desired....  It's probably a pretty simple formula.  :)
<arrith> chipotles are opening up everywhere now. probably will be one nearby soon
<arrith> order from their site and send an intern to get it
<philipballew> nhaines, Carne asada, queso, salsa, french fries.
<nhaines> I would totally get the DÃ¶ner Kebab place in Germany to throw one in a styrofoam container with dry ice and fly it over here.
<arrith> don't let the intern get anything for themselves. they have to learn discipline
<arrith> nhaines: $50!
<jose> arrith: we do have a law that allows us to have up to 20 llamas in our backyard
<philipballew> nhaines, I was in Germany last month and had a really good one of those.
<nhaines> arrith: deal if I can buy it with bitcoin!
<philipballew> they were the shit
<arrith> nhaines: not when btc goes x50 in value
<philipballew> Im gonna visit a bitcoin atm this weekend in my area.
<nhaines> arrith: I'm only buying it now though.
<arrith> Recent incidents have brought the currency under new regulatory scrutiny, such as the failure of Mt. Gox, a Tokyo-based exchange that filed for bankruptcy after losing an estimated $650 million worth of customer bitcoins.
<arrith> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/25/us-bitcoin-irs-idUSBREA2O1LR20140325
<darthrobot> Title: [Bitcoins are property, not currency, IRS says regarding taxes| Reuters]
<philipballew> can I print out my bitcoins?
<nhaines> philipballew: yes.
<arrith> verifying that they're legit is another thing though
<arrith> localbitcoins has a whole deal using text messages to confirm transfer of btc
<arrith> not sure if it actually escrows
<nhaines> arrith: it can escrow, yes.
<philipballew> nhaines, interessant
<jose> #!/usr/bin/python; print("out my bitcoins")
<arrith> #!/usr/bin/env python
<philipballew> "Siri print me some money"
<nhaines> I'm really happy that I agreed to update the OCLUG installfest page with the installfest date but it doesn't actually have one.
<nhaines> It's like free work.
<pleia2> arrith: we won't be doing an installfest at the party, the party will just be a gathering to learn about the new release and eat pizza for a couple hours, an installfest requires a lot more time and volunteers
<pleia2> I won't do an installfest for less than 5 hours these days, there are always installation issues and we get stuck staying forever, not something for a thursday night :)
<pleia2> as for DVD shipping, we'll do the same as we've done in the past, when they arrive I'll email the list and ask which regions need them, ie: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2012-October/002054.html
<darthrobot> Title: [[Ubuntu-US-CA] Fwd: DVDs For LoCo Teams]
<bkerensa> arrith: I do not
<bkerensa> pleia2: so let me know if you have any issues William will be able to help get you guys setup
<bkerensa> we have beverages and some snacks on site
<bkerensa> depending on when it is we could probably order pizzas too
<pleia2> yeah, I'll let you know if adroll doesn't work out :)
<bkerensa> for the installfest
<pleia2> oh good
<pleia2> I need to convince someone to run it, I'm way too overbooked
<bkerensa> I know that feeling
<pleia2> I can attend, but coordinating another event.. :\
<bkerensa> how do you reverse the overbooked feeling?
<bkerensa> :D
<pleia2> learn how to say "no" :)
<pleia2> let me know how that goes
<pleia2> hehe
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-03-27
<pleia2> anyone remember the name of that tool that would calculate how much free software was being used on your system?
 * ianorlin doesn't
<pleia2> aha, vrms
<ianorlin> oh I heard about that
<pleia2> :)
 * ianorlin just installed it but it did not notice a proprietary braodcom driver
<pleia2> didn't notice chrome either
<pleia2> or hipchat, I think it only checks a few repos
<ianorlin> ah
<arrith> hm to be comprehensive it could check binaries in PATH and report 'known free', 'known nonfree', and 'unknown status'
<ianorlin> yeah
<arrith> might even have to include library paths, then would need awareness of the packaging directory layout of python/ruby/perl/etc
<nhaines> I am very happy because I found out why Django was incredibly broken on my shared hosting.  It was because I had Django 0.96 hiding along with a PYTHONPATH variable.  This has been remedied.
<nhaines> I am also happy because I just discovered why Django wasn't running, so I actually beat ASO support to a fix.  This is remarkable because the support team are ninjas.
<nhaines> Of course, I'm getting Python import errors again, so it's back to throwing keyboards.
<arrith> haha
<arrith> progress!
<nhaines> And now it works.  :D
<arrith> woo
<arrith> i realized the pythin script i wrote only did half of what i wanted/needed
<arrith> and just learned about "enumerate"
<nhaines> arrith: just wait until you learn about list comprehensions.  :)
<nhaines> It is tea time.
<arrith> nhaines: oh somehow i already stumbled on that
<arrith> that stuff is cool
<arrith> not sure how to use it beyond the simple like   [i for i in thing]    or     [num**2 for num in thing]
<nhaines> arrith: it's a start.  :)
<AlienFreak> LOL.  virtual Richard M. Stallman  that's awesome.
<AlienFreak> ie. vrms
<rww> it doesn't actually agree with him, though :s
<AlienFreak> well.. stallman barely agrees with himself...
<AlienFreak> I think if it was accurate it'd probably mark 90% of my system as non-free software
<arrith> eh, AlienFreak i'd challenge you to find a contradiction in what RMS has says
<arrith> does get kind of tricky in some minutiae, say like selling proprietary licenses, or LGPL, but it's all pretty consistent
<AlienFreak> he's a unique character... I would simply argue that most people's definitions of free software doesn't match his
<AlienFreak> either ways.. it's too late and i'm too sleepy to argue RMS freedom rules
<arrith> AlienFreak: haha, well when you're not, i'm all for checking my own consistency
<arrith> but yeah, he does use different definitions for some words and tries to get others to use them. that might not be the best use of his time
 * AlienFreak nods. 
<AlienFreak> gnu/linux particularly
<AlienFreak> don't get me wrong.. I appreciate his prescence.  He defines the extreme left view of the free/proprietary debate
<AlienFreak> I just think there's room to use F/OSS without going all the way to the extreme left.  Last time I met him, he was arguing that java was evil.  (unrelated to the memory usage pattern on the machine )
<AlienFreak> in a room full of CS students whose curriculum is 70% java
<arrith> AlienFreak: actually now it's gnu+linux
<arrith> and no one knows that except for people that follow the latest on RMS heh
<rww> i thought it was GNU/systemd+linux
<AlienFreak> is it?
<nhaines> RMS is probably the most consistent person I've ever met.
<arrith> AlienFreak: well he says "gnu plus linux, or gnu slash linux"
<AlienFreak> didn't he finish his kernel now.  Does he call his os gnu + hurd?
<arrith> rww: soon to be, thanks to those traitors in the debian high council :(
 * rww rolls eyes
<arrith> AlienFreak: he goes out in the jungle for years with only a mips machine and the emacs src, and makes progress on hurd
<arrith> rww: debian was the chosen one! *rest of star wars quote*
<rww> and it chose well :3
<arrith> no one left to save us now
<nhaines> The transistion to systemd is a real shame, but hardly the end of the world.  If they work well with others, anyway.
<arrith> rww: pssh people had fedora, they had arch
<arrith> leave me my debian. even pass that "no encouraging one init system" thing, that was decent
<arrith> nhaines: that so hasn't happened yet. nor are there really hints that it will
<rww> arrith: you are aware that non-Ubuntu-created init daemons are *normally* used by more than one distro, yes?
<rww> arrith: and systemd is better in a technical sense than sysvinit, and I tend to find that the anti-systemd ranters are rather less personable than Lennart
<arrith> rww: i'm not necessarily advocating for upstart
<arrith> that gentoo one didn't seem that bad. personally i'm just for having something *besides* systemd, so people can take it all more piecemeal
<rww> Is your expectation that every other init system in the Debian archives will magically stop working now that systemd is going to be default?
<arrith> have it as some spec of different tools that perform different functions. you get the bonus of the *bsds possibly being able to make use of it
<arrith> rww: welll... bitrot is a thing
<arrith> if they only test systemd
<rww> arrith: they didn't only test sysvinit when it was default. systemd worked quite happily on Debian back then too.
<rww> arrith: and if people care about the other init systems, they will presumably continue this tradition
<rww> if nobody cares enough to do the work, it's not really fair to expect it to be done *shrug*
<arrith> rww: but that's the point of why defaults are so important. chances are if something is going to be written/maintained, it will be with various expectations. now the expectation is all the systemd junk will be there.
<nhaines> This is only really a problem for daemon package maintainers, though.
<rww> arrith: feel free to help with the efforts to provide comparable services to e.g. logind. I believe slangasek would be the person to chat with about that.
<arrith> it's fine to require it, like gnome has been. but a slow, pernicious decay of packages depending on systemd in one way or another
<arrith> rww: it takes way more than one person. almost the resources of... a distro
<rww> and if people care enough to do the work, they will presumably do it
<arrith> people can boycott gnome, you can't boycott the debian repos on debian
<arrith> rww: well i would have hoped people would care enough to keep sane defaults
<rww> shockingly, people disagree with you on what is a sane default
<arrith> that is one thing i'm curious about, polls of debian user preferences. i remember some poll but i forget if they were debian members or devs
<arrith> rww: everyone makes mistakes
<arrith> learning from them is what's important
<rww> personally I think that sticking with a mess of bash scripts for initialization when there's a superior option out there that makes use of Linux features (just like FreeBSD's init daemon makes use of its, OS X ditto) is not really sane
<nhaines> Debian user preferences are worthless.
<nhaines> It's Debian developer preferences that matter.  (They're the ones doing the work.)
<rww> systemd works nicely, the cgroup setup is nice, journalctl has some really useful features, and in general dismissing it all as "junk" and complaining that other people aren't doing the work you want them to do is a bit naff
<arrith> rww: my main concerns are simply not being modularized and not being platform agnostic. i suppose both could be fixed in time, but people seem to want to undo the faults of systemd rather than try to do a cleaner implementation.
<arrith> just seems like a less than ideal way to go about it all
<rww> arrith: "modularized" means what, specifically? And I'm perfectly fine with Linux being like every other sane OS and actually using the features its kernel provides to make sysadmins lives easier.
<arrith> rww: actual separate projects. creating a spec then implementing it rather than effectively being another linux-kernel-level (in size and scope) "do everything".
<arrith> rww: sure, i'm all for making things easier. but there is something to be said for the usefulness of efforts like kFreeBSD and how systemd really makes them impossible.
<arrith> systemd dependence*
<nhaines> What's useful about kFreeBSD?
<rww> There's something to be said for not holding back a Linux distribution because a FreeBSD based offshoot of it that's used by like 10 people would have to make sure its alternate init system still works.
<arrith> nhaines: lack of a monoculture, alternate features, alternate architecture, alternate performance characteristics, etc etc
<arrith> rww: consider kFreeBSD 10% of my concern, to be clear
<nhaines> That sounds way too vague to be actionable.
<arrith> but still notable
<arrith> nhaines: the debian project thought it worthwhile enough to give it, i forget their term, but almost up to an official release. just marked 'beta' or something.
<nhaines> I'm not certain Linux can be described as a "monoculture".
<arrith> nhaines: 0days on the kernel are a thing
<rww> The most ridiculous part of the whole systemd-in-debian thing for me is all the energy going into complaining about logind (which is generally the concern for some reason) depending on systemd and all the lack of energy going into writing an alternative to logind that implements its interface.
<arrith> rww: well i have heard that various parts of systemd can be disabled, i'm really not sure what percentage of all of systemd is going to be enabled by default
<rww> so you end up with situations like Ubuntu using an old version of logind from pre-cgroup, and you have to wonder why it is that apparently everyone competent to write a seat manager is only working on systemd
<rww> arrith: logind requires systemd. systemd requires journald. that's about it in terms of hard requirements
<arrith> if it's just logind, that's a lot easier to reimplement than all of systemd, but i doubt it will be
<rww> arrith: GNOME doesn't depend on any of the above, but functions better with logind (apparently, I don't use it so...)
<rww> so go re-implement what logind does with some other non-systemd method, and you're all set
<arrith> just for the record, and i don't mean to equate them at all, but leonart pottering tends to be a bit heavy handed in his software planning. effectively the reverse of modularization and following a spec. i'll say i'm not intimately familiar with the specifics of systemd internals but i'm wary
<nhaines> rww: but logind steals your software independence.
<arrith> rww: is that all debian has approved of in terms of systemd use?
<arrith> since yeah, the compilation flags for systemd will actually dictate a lot of systemd's effect
<rww> arrith: as I understand it, Debian is going to use systemd as the default init daemon, logind on environments that use it, and I'd expect journald piped to rsyslog but I haven't seen much on that bit yet
<arrith> hmm
<rww> plus systemd-udev, of course
<arrith> if it's really just init, and they clean other parts up before they use them, or don't use them at all, i would be okay with that
<arrith> hrm
<rww> what "other parts" are you referring to?
<arrith> well that binary log format i'd love to avoid is one thing
<arrith> no reason a json or something couldn't do all it can
<rww> the one that journald uses by default, which you can trivially switch off and have stuff go to rsyslog like usual
<rww> including on Fedora and Arch and what have you
<arrith> rww: the defaults for that do matter, imo
<arrith> yeah actually, i wonder what arch and fedora have for either. i'm guessing they leave it on.
<rww> and they're a matter of opinion, and Debian's processes disagree with yours, so...
<arrith> fedora at least for sure
<rww> as far as I know they use the default journald setup
<arrith> well, the council at least. might not necessarily reflect usrs
<rww> it's a tech committee, and Debian users are free to become developers so that their opinion actually matters. that's how things work in Debian.
<nhaines> rww: +1
<arrith> rww: well it would be quite something of say 80% of debian users were against systemd say
<arrith> that would really not be serving the community
<rww> if 80% of Debian users were against systemd and there weren't enough Debian Developers against it to pass a general resolution (majority) against it, that would be quite something
<nhaines> The Debian community is the developers.
<rww> they're not there to serve the community, they're there to make a good distro
<arrith> heh they can have a great distro, that nobody uses. i'm looking at nixos
<rww> okay, have fun with that. I don't expect 80% of Debian users will follow you.
<arrith> rww: you haven't seen polls?
<arrith> i swear there was one
<rww> a self-selected internet poll on a subject with a bunch of arguing is rather unlikely to be statistically significant
<rww> but, we'll see. If Debian drops 80% of its user count with jessie, I'll come back and tip my hat to you.
<arrith> iirc was on some debian mailing list and was kind of official-ish
<arrith> haha
<rww> hell, ditto if it drops 10%
<arrith> well for all i know the poll was pro systemd
<arrith> eh
<rww> and again, if systemd is such a huge problem, why is there no General Resolution overriding the tech committee?
<arrith> well ofc that won't happen, you'll just see sysvinit numbers in popcon stay high
<rww> the tech-ctte result specifically allowed for a majority vote GR to override them, but nobody's even proposed one
<arrith> rww: it might be that they just want to use 'the good parts' and either slowly add the rest, or ideally make them better before they add them
<arrith> i thought ian tried?
<arrith> http://ostatic.com/blog/debian-developers-get-user-input-on-systemd
<rww> no, he seconded a GR from someone else that kept systemd as the default and said that package maintainers need to make sure their packages work on all Debian-packaged init systems or some unworkable nonsense like that
<arrith> http://people.debian.org/~stapelberg//2013/05/27/systemd-survey-results.html
<darthrobot> Title: [Michael Stapelbergs Debian blog]
<arrith> eh
<arrith> that's unfortunate if that was the case. just keeping legacy support and being open to systemd alternatives would have been good for me.
<rww> so 15% plus 14% undecided
<arrith> Top concerns
<arrith> complexity is top, second is not portable to non-linux systems
<rww> arrith: they are open to systemd alternatives. upstart is in the archive. go file bugs and write patches for your packages that don't support it
<rww> ditto sysvinit
<rww> not ditto openrc, but that would be nice to see
<rww> arrith: I thought we were talking about people who didn't like systemd, not people who had concerns about it?
<arrith> rww: i meant "open" there as in taking future investigations into if people are liking systemd, and if something else came out that would be more suitable. right now its "hope everyone likes systemd"
<arrith> rww: there's a difference?
<rww> erm, yes?
<arrith> i'm sure if systemd changed drastically i would love it
<rww> or are you of the opinion that things you like can have no issues?
<arrith> so i'd say my dislike is all concerns
<arrith> heh, i prefer them to have as few as possible
<rww> and I expect that Debian Developers tend to have fewer concerns about systemd than about sysvinit
<arrith> i would be curious what, if anything, is brought up about systemd during the next board election
<arrith> since that might be, or not
<rww> If you're referring to a tech-ctte election, they're not elected. If you're referring to Debian Project Leader, go ask about it on debian-vote@, since the nomination period started already.
<rww> (per Debian Constitution 6.2, new tech-ctte members are generally recommended by existing ones to the DPL who then decides whether or not to approve them, which is similar to all the other stuff DPL delegates in Debian)
<rww> anyways, it's bedtime for me, I have to be up for work in 6h
<nhaines> rww: yay work!
<arrith> had to put away dishes
<arrith> aww
<arrith> that is interesting, i really should look into that. i heard of the DPL elections, and i guess i assumed the CTTE were also
<arrith> one thing i thought of is overall linus and his lieutenants have done a fine job stewarding linux, and a (if not the most) critical part of linux distros
<arrith> the systemd team, and systemd, is all very new. it hasn't exactly proven itself anywhere besides just being the only thing that supports various kernel features
<arrith> then you have redhat taking gnome in some odd directions, then they promote systemd as this "let systemd solve everything for you"
<arrith> as some somewhat-ignorant user it feels forced and is quite off-putting.
<arrith> heh coincidentally brought into debian by an unelected board :P
<arrith> i do wonder how much of the existing board a new DPL could dissolve, if the DPL really wanted to
<nhaines> https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution
<darthrobot> Title: [Debian Constitution]
<arrith> might have to drop some DoI
<arrith> When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the Debian Constitution
<nhaines> Debian Constitution 6.2.5, I'm going to say no.
<arrith> wow
<arrith> that is some supreme court stuff
<arrith> 4.1.4 about overriding
<nhaines> Yes, that is because the developers are the ones doing the actual work.
<arrith> well i mean more, unelected
<arrith> devs, those doing the actual work, might want to be able to participate in the selection of the technical committee
<nhaines> They do in that they elect the Debian Project Leader.
<arrith> hm yeah that is interesting though, i wonder why they're not directly elected. there must be some reasoning behind that.
<nhaines> Sounds like a huge, unnecessary time sink.
<arrith> well could do some kind of hybrid system. unelected except say once a year. refreshing period.
<arrith> also, only unnecessary until it isn't
<arrith> the systemd fiasco clearly shows they've gone mad with power and are unfit to lead </partial s>
<nhaines> If anyone really believed that, they could hold a General Resolution.
<arrith> who is silencing them is the question!
<arrith> how deep does this go
<nhaines> The only thing I care about is that Ubuntu doesn't break on phones and tablets.
<arrith> oh i really don't think it will. ubuntu phone is the top priority atm
<arrith> besides i guess ubuntu server
<arrith> i actually wonder what distros are actively rejecting systemd, and might be sources for usable alternatives at one point
<arrith> possibly gentoo? i know they like that openrc a lot, but i wonder if they're refusing to 'package' systemd
<arrith> i doubt they're refusing to 'package' gnome3
<nhaines> Ubuntu's main priority is cloud infrastructure.  :)
<arrith> openstack or that landscape?
<nhaines> Openstack and Juju.
<arrith> ohh
<arrith> juju is really going to have to pull off some magick to take on this docker craze
<arrith> juju was doing pretyy well, but was hardly known outside of people directly inside ubuntu or following it very closely, then docker exploded
<raevol> almost... there...
<rww> arrith: both GNOME 3 and systemd work fine on Gentoo. I've personally used systemd on it, have not tried GNOME 3 on it.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-03-28
<raevol> happy Friday!
<pleia2> happy friday
<raevol> pleia2: how was your no todolist day
<pleia2> unproductive!
<pleia2> but it was just an evening, and lovely :)
<sudormrf> ello
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-03-29
<arrith> rww: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon/#features
<darthrobot> Title: [ThinkPad X1 Carbon Business Ultrabook | Lenovo (US)]
<arrith> behold the touch function buttons, and despair
<arrith> i probably misspoke earlier, chances are there will still be thinkpads in the T series (or at least W series) with sane(r) keyboards for a while
<rww> oh, I thought you meant on the actual LCD screen
<rww> but yeah, that's pretty awful
<arrith> oh, that would be funny
<arrith> but they tend to trial stuff with that x1 line
<rww> I was working on a Lenovo today with no Pause/Break key. Makes getting to the System window on Windows rather more annoying.
<arrith> like there's that t4x0s and another t4xx<letter>
<arrith> ah wow
<arrith> at least on this hp thati  have, chiclet, but you can fn your way to all the normal keys
<arrith> i use an ext kb whenever i can though
<rww> it's odd, because the Lenovo I have at home has a perfectly sane keyboard (except chicklet, but I don't care about that)
<rww> but yeah, glad we're going with HP for new stuff at work
<arrith> that is odd
<rww> idk, maybe they have different designers for different models, and some of them are very very stoned
<arrith> hm, well, just all the cool kids go either macbook pro or x1 carbon these days. i dislike both. but a retina macbook air might be ok, i really need to build a desktop workstation first though actually
<arrith> haha
<arrith> post ibm ties things got /weird/ in the lenovo labs
 * ianorlin felt earthquake last night
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-03-23
<ianorlin> meeting?
<elky> i guess
<DonkeyHotei> i believe the trigger is #startmeeting
<elky> it is, yes
<elky> #startmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Mar 23 02:05:44 2015 UTC.  The chair is elky. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<elky> #chair ianorlin elky nhaines
<darthrobot> Current chairs: elky ianorlin nhaines
<pleia2> o/
<elky> the agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/15March22
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/15March22 - Ubuntu Wiki]
<elky> which is empty
<lrcaballero> 0/
<elky> so i guess we got straight to any other business?
<ianorlin> #topic any other business
<pleia2> according to the release schedule https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule April 23rd is the release date for Vivid
<darthrobot> Title: [VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> unfortunately I can't make the time right now to do anything for the bay area :\
<pleia2> so if anyone else is interested in stepping up, please do
<elky> last one was basically just crunched in to a monthly ubuntu hour wasn't it?
<ianorlin> nhianes maybe try something for LA ara
<pleia2> I'll likely also be canceling the Ubuntu Hour on April 8th because I'm getting back from a trip right before then, so if someone else wants to run it, that'd be great, I'll also reach out to Michael Paoli, who has subbed in the past
<pleia2> re: San Francisco
<lrcaballero> I will get a hold of Phil here in San Diego and see if do something at Starbucks...
<lrcaballero> for the release that is....
<pleia2> elky: there was a proper release party at Mozilla last cycle, but I wasn't around and it wasn't very well promoted :\
<pleia2> lrcaballero: great :)
<elky> pleia2: ah. actually i do recall that yes
<pleia2> and there was also supposed to be a presented, but they pulled out last minute
<pleia2> all kind of a mess really
<pleia2> s/presented/presenter
<pleia2> I don't remember the details about that
<pleia2> anyway, it would be lovely to have a more successful one :)
<pleia2> I think that's all I've got
<elky> did you go to the eps memorial thing or were you out of town?
<pleia2> I did, DonkeyHotei was also there
<pleia2> it was very nice, good pizza, good company :)
<DonkeyHotei> i just wish i hadn't been sick
<ianorlin> I don't think anyone likes being sick
<DonkeyHotei> hopefully no one caught it
 * pleia2 feels good
<pleia2> so... anything else?
<elky> not from me
<elky> looks like nhaines couldn't break away from his lucrative babysitting gig
<lrcaballero> Thank you guys....I will see you next time :-D
<lrcaballero> Good Night!
<elky> thanks for coming along
<pleia2> night all
<elky> DonkeyHotei: ianorlin: nothing from either of you i assume?
<DonkeyHotei> well, we could discuss meeting cancellation procedures, but that's best put on the next agenda
<elky> indeed
<elky> ok well i guess i'll close out
<elky> #endmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Mar 23 02:25:18 2015 UTC.
<darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2015/ubuntu-us-ca.2015-03-23-02.05.moin.txt
<nhaines> elky: thanks for running the meeting tonight (and thanks for volunteering to help out if she couldn't make it, pleia2!).  I saw that the meeting log came in handy to someone interested in the Ubuntu Hour, so I'm glad it did go through.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-03-25
<ianorlin> nhaines are you around?
<nhaines> ianorlin: a bit in and out at the moment.
<ianorlin> ah ok no time for iso test even just a live session cause I know you have amd apu  wonder how bad the problem is and if there are any good amd ones as final beta is tommorow as I only have intel at the moment as my mom lost her powercord to the only amd one I have
<nhaines> What kind of problem?
<ianorlin> some are not even having the installer booting which is really not good
<nhaines> Some what?
<ianorlin> of the installers with ubiquity for lubuntu
<nhaines> Okay.  I can only do live media tests.  If you can get me an ISO link and a description of what needs testing, I can probably do it before 5.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-03-26
<ianorlin> any obvious typos in this?
<ianorlin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/Beta2/Lubuntu
<darthrobot> Title: [VividVervet/Beta2/Lubuntu - Ubuntu Wiki]
<nhaines> ianorlin: "Instr uctions for burning the image to a DVD..." has a line break in the middle of "Instructions".
<ianorlin> nhaines: thanks
<nhaines> You're welcome.  A quick skim through in LibreOffice didn't unveil any others.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2016-03-29
<nhandler> pleia2: Looks like we can't do Yelp on the day you wanted :(
<pleia2> nhandler: can we push it 2 weeks out?
<nhandler> pleia2: To May 5?
<pleia2> nhandler: yeah
<nhandler> pleia2: Let me ask
<pleia2> I have a seder on the 21st, then I'm at the openstack summit the whole week after, may 3, 4 or 5th will do, whatever is available
<pleia2> maybe avoid cinco de mayo, come to think of it :)
<pleia2> 3rd or 4th?
<nhandler> No go :( And it looks like I somehow lost access to our internal calendar of events.
<pleia2> doh
<pleia2> what days are available in may?
<nhandler> If we can't make Yelp work, what about trying Github?
<nhandler> pleia2: Trying to figure that out
<pleia2> could also chat with Gandi
<pleia2> they hosted a QA event last year and they're over on 2nd
<pleia2> oh, my gandi contact went away
<pleia2> I'll email jono
#ubuntu-us-ca 2016-03-30
<nhandler> pleia2: Got the calendar stuff sorted out. Looks like we would probably want to do May 9th or 10th if we want to do it at Yelp
<pleia2> nhandler: ok, we'll see what we hear from github and decide from there, thanks for looking into it :)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2016-04-03
<pleia2> I have family in town this weekend, so we might be at dinner during meeting time
<nhaines> I just found out I have to get a friend from the airport, and if I leave now I won't be back until 10 or 11. :/
#ubuntu-us-ca 2017-03-30
<nhaines> How is it already Wednesday evening?
<nhaines> philipballew: could you update the LoCo Meetup page so it doesn't have a 3.5 MB background image, please?
<philipballew> nhaines, totally. doing so now
#ubuntu-us-ca 2018-03-26
<nhaines> A meeting is coming!
<nhaines> Meeting coming up in 3 minutes.  :)
<nhaines> #startmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Mar 26 02:00:31 2018 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<nhaines> Welcome to the March 25th meeting for Ubuntu California!
<nhaines> Tonight's agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/18March25
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/18March25 - Ubuntu Wiki]
<nhaines> #topic Upcoming events
<nhaines> I don't know of anything coming up in California in the next month.
<nhaines> UbuCon Europe in XixÃ³n, Spain is at the end of April, and many of those talks will be recorded.  I'll be speaking there.
<nhaines> Ubuntu 18.04 will be released on April 26th, two days before UbuCon.
<nhaines> So it is time to start thinking about release parties.
<nhaines> #topic Announcements
<nhaines> Does anyone have any announcements for the LoCo?
<nhaines> Okay, moving on to our agenda items tonight.
<nhaines> #topic UbuCon at SCALE and SCALE 16X postmortem
<nhaines> We had a very successful UbuCon this year, and that was almost entirely thanks to our speakers, who took the time to prepare interesting and insightful topics to present.  Big thanks to pleia2 and nhandler who are in the channel for their hard work.
<nhaines> Our most popular talks had about 128 audience members, which is significant considering how late everything finally came together.
<nhaines> The booth was also a success, and this is thanks to volunteers like George Mulak, lynorian, and Ian Santopietro.
<nhaines> Richard and I had some significant hurdles this year.  Since our contact left Canonical last year, communication has been slow.
<nhaines> Despite a very strong initial burst of activity, Canonical does not appear to have a dedicated community team anymore, and my contacts were almost certainly a little overworked.
<nhaines> This led to massive delays in getting information about logistics for UbuCon or the expo booth.
<nhaines> In the end, Canonical did not sponsor UbuCon or SCALE this year, and funds from the community fund were only made available after I emailed Mark Shuttleworth 8 days before the event.
<nhaines> In turn, SCALE delayed confirming how much space we would have, which delayed our call for papers and we were told several times that none of our speakers had submitted talks when it later turned out that all but one had submitted (and we knew about that one).
<nhaines> Richard and I had discussed sponsorship issues last year, but we relied on assurances that commitments were immediately forthcoming this year, which resulted in us not adapting to the situation in time.
<nhaines> We plan to assume that Canonical will not be sponsoring or assisting for UbuCon at SCALE 17x and carrying out our contingency plans from the beginning, which we think will allow us to be prepared before or at the same time SCALE makes their announcements.
<nhaines> The booth went very well despite half the space from last year, and we had a lot of interested visitors.
<nhaines> Most were interested in the Unity to GNOME Shell transition, and everyone seemed pleased or relieved that there were some major similarities in Ubuntu's default GNOME session.
<nhaines> I also did an interview with the Ask Noah Show where I talked a little about that transition.  http://podcast.asknoahshow.com/53
<darthrobot> Title: [Ask Noah Show Episode 53: Live from SCaLE 16x]
<nhaines> I suspect that next year we'll be able to give a longer lead time for booth volunteers, as we have in the past.  So I'm looking forward to a smoother booth schedule next year.
<nhaines> SCALE attendance appeared to be down, but they reported that their numbers were higher than last year, so I suspect the difference was more closely related to the busy times.
<nhaines> Once again I'd like to thank Richard Gaskin for helping to organize the UbuCon conference and all of our speakers and booth volunteers for making a very successful event.  :)
<nhaines> #topic Discuss changing time of bi-weekly IRC meetings
<nhaines> There was a proposal on the mailing list about changing the meeting time.
<nhaines> If a different meeting time will increase attendance and participation, I'd be happy to move the meetings.  But I'd like to see more discussion about it on the mailing list first.
<nhaines> Since no one is present, I'll immediately move the topic back to the list.
<nhaines> #topic Other business
<nhaines> Is there anything else before we wrap the meeting up?
<lynorian> oops now I show up
<nhaines> lynorian: good to see you.  :)
<nhaines> Okay, our next meeting is scheduled for April 8th.  Hope to see everyone there!
<nhaines> #endmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Mar 26 02:30:40 2018 UTC.
<darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2018/ubuntu-us-ca.2018-03-26-02.00.moin.txt
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