#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-08
<_stink_> rick_h_: i lean toward the first, but i think that's only because i'm thinking of myself in the audience.
<_stink_> brousch is probably right.
<rick_h_> _stink_: well I submitted the first and told him if he didn't like he I could do the second and I'll see what the guy running it says
<jrwren> rick_h_: what is with teh pop8 pastebin?
<jrwren> oh... those are two talks... hrm... flip a coin, both look great.
<rick_h_> cool, thanks
<jrwren> if I had to pick, I'd pick the second one
<snap-l> Yeah, I'd say both would be good
<jrwren> becuase the first one, i actually don't agree with :)
<snap-l> jrwren: You're just not one to face facts. ;)
<jrwren> PEP8 is nice and all, but i think strict adherence to style is actually all that important
<jrwren> snap-l: that is right.
<rick_h_> jrwren: well, the overall talk goal is "readable is important" and going through reasons why
<snap-l> jrwren: I think pep8 is great for making things readable
<jrwren> i think it is a great starting point.
<rick_h_> demonstrating on code that's pep8/not, and going through some libraries/etc to compare which are more 'reader' friendly/why
<jrwren> ya know what... its python, of course it is great.
<jrwren> I just get pissed off at how stupid idiomatic C# is.
<rick_h_> yea, I mean it shows off python as very readble
<jrwren> idiomatic python, i've never had a problem with.
<rick_h_> and hopefully any language dev would walk away asking if their code is as readable as it can be maybe
<rick_h_> meh, I'm one of those style guidelines crazies, so it's a chance for me to rant :)
<snap-l> http://video.pbs.org/video/2022819754
<snap-l> Wow, I love these theaters in this video
<snap-l> Amazing plaves.
<rick_h_> bah, that video set my laptop fans a running
<snap-l> Sorry. :)
<snap-l> I'm watching it on my desktop, which is already running hot
<snap-l> CPU Temperature:   +49.0Â°C  (high = +65.0Â°C, crit = +95.0Â°C)
<snap-l> MB Temperature:    +61.0Â°C  (high = +45.0Â°C, crit = +95.0Â°C)
<rick_h_> http://1devdaydetroit.wordpress.com/
<rick_h_> sweet, curious to hear dianne speak
<rick_h_> never really heard her talk at anything
<snap-l> wow, they're quick.
<snap-l> Everyone ready to meet?
<jjesse> do we have to?
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/80/detail/
<greg-g> yo yo
<greg-g> Things are a tad crazy around here
<jjesse> i bet they are
<snap-l> greg-g: Everything OK out there?
<greg-g> you know, stressful packing/moving stuff
<greg-g> but otherwise ok
<snap-l> OK.
<snap-l> Glad it's just normal normal stuff. ;)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> so yeah, meeting? we got people here?
<snap-l> I believe so
<jjesse> some times
<jrwren> i'm here. not that i count
<greg-g> rick_h_: _stink_ jrwren widox Wolfger you here?
<snap-l> jrwren: You count.
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h_> yea, here
<rick_h_> for a few
<snap-l> jrwren: I think you're a turing machine too.
<greg-g> alright then, the agenda is up there
<greg-g> so, first one is OLF
<jrwren> yup. and my tape is toilet paper.
<snap-l> So, anything else on the agenda that needs covering?
<greg-g> reapproval
<greg-g> which is https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/784667
<snap-l> Adding that to the agenda at item 3
<greg-g> oh right, that is a private bug :/
<snap-l> Added
<snap-l> WTF?!?
<snap-l> Why did they make that a private bug? :)
<greg-g> so not everyone can see all the -1's :)
<greg-g> so, OLF first? partnering with Ohio?
<rick_h_> I've got the booth gear, don't let me forget
<greg-g> cool, so rick_h_ is going :)
<rick_h_> yea, if the open source booths are the same price lococast is going to try to get one
<greg-g> (the LD is taking forever to log me in...)
<greg-g> cool
<snap-l> Yeah, I was thinking that since we had a booth, we might want to partner withthe Ohio group
<greg-g> so, shall I/someone email the ohio team?
<rick_h_> sounds good
<greg-g> I figure just shooting an email to their mailing list
<snap-l> Yeah, that would be cool.
<snap-l> I can do that if you're busy, greg-g
<greg-g> snap-l: that'd be great!
<greg-g> I won't lie, I'm a tad overwhelmed tonight :/
<snap-l> No worries.
<greg-g> so, that's done, I think, nothing else to do until they respond
<greg-g> Global Jam: We're still ready to go at SRT, I believe, right jrwren ?
<greg-g> lets assume yes
<greg-g> times are whatever we decided in that email thread, noon-5 I *think*
<snap-l> Believe that was what we agreed
<greg-g> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1090/detail/
<greg-g> yep
<greg-g> so now, I should blog that on the planet, and we should do reminders 2 weeks before, 1 week before, and the day before on the mailing list
<snap-l> Planetary blogger. ;)
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> OK.
<greg-g> I think that's it? Oh, and of course with the 2 week prior one we spam all the other lists we know about
<greg-g> So, with the blog post that will have all the pertinent details so an email can be written
<greg-g> I'l hpefully get to the blog post by the end of this week
<greg-g> Ok, reapproval
<greg-g> agenda #3
<snap-l> Yes, reapproval
<greg-g> what we need to do:
<jrwren> yup.
<greg-g> 1) make sure our team reports are all A-OK
<jrwren> SRT, still ready to go.
<greg-g> jrwren: awesome, thanks
<greg-g> 2) once those ar egood, I'll ping that private bug report
<greg-g> then they'll add us to the agenda for the next month's meeting, which I htink we should shoot for the Sept one
<greg-g> which means getting the reports due by the end of the month
<snap-l> greg-g: What do we need to do to make sure the team reports are OK?
<greg-g> so, one thing I forgot that we can totally use for those team reports are the LocoCast :0
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> eh?
<greg-g> add them to our team reports as things members of the LoCo did as contributing to our livelihood, or something :)
<snap-l> OK, where are the reports located, for those of us who are too lazy to look. ;)
<greg-g> ah, right
<greg-g> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/TeamReports/
<snap-l> Wow, that needs some filling.
<greg-g> yeah :/
<snap-l> OK. We'll need some volunteers to help out
<snap-l> How far back should we go?
<snap-l> 2009? 2008?
<greg-g> meh, 2009 is fine with me
<snap-l> OK
<snap-l> If anyone gets bored in the net few weeks, fill out some reports. ;)
<snap-l> I'll try to get some filled out.
<greg-g> yeah, I'll add the videos from the MUG meeting that gib posted
<greg-g> other than that.... the lococasts?
<snap-l> Lococasts, jams
<snap-l> I can add the lococasts
<snap-l> and the jams
<greg-g> are you two ok with that, snap-l and rick_h_ ? using them for our things we did for the reapproval?
<greg-g> cool, thanks man
<jjesse> release party as well right?
<greg-g> yep yep
<jjesse> both west side and east side
<greg-g> most of those are already in the reports for the past year or so
<greg-g> word
<snap-l> if rick_h_ is OK with it, I'm quite OK with it
<greg-g> alright, let's put a goal date on that for August 20th
<greg-g> cool
<greg-g> alright, the sad agenda item
<greg-g> I'm leaving :(
<greg-g> on wednesday to be exact
<snap-l> greg-g: Hold up
<greg-g> oh, sorry
<snap-l> We need to get ourselves on the agenda for reapproval
<greg-g> right, should I just do that now assuming we're good to go?
<snap-l> greg-g: yeah, just so we have something to shoot for. :)
<greg-g> cool
<greg-g> they're 3rd Tuesday of every month
<greg-g> So, the next is Aug 16th
<greg-g> then Sept 20th
<greg-g> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<snap-l> When is our reapproval date?
<snap-l> Seemed they were really tetchy about getting on the agenda prior to that
<greg-g> sometime between now and the October meeting, inclusive
<snap-l> OK, Sept 20th should be good
<greg-g> they just don't want to have them all in october :)
<snap-l> I want to get this done and over
<greg-g> word
<greg-g> no more agenda items with "re-approval" in the subject
<snap-l> so we can fuck around for X years, and then race to the finish for the next reapproval
<snap-l> ;)
<jjesse> yay
<greg-g> snap-l: exactly!
<snap-l> So, the sad panda music
<greg-g> so yeah, I'm not leaving this channel, of course, but it'd be great if someone could take the metaphorical reigns of the team since I'll be thousands of miles away
 * greg-g looks at snap-l 
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> What all is required for a successor?
<greg-g> A) perseverance (or however you spell that)
<greg-g> B) ability to run IRC meetings
<greg-g> C) ability to email the mailing list/other mailings lists (aka: be a spammer)
<greg-g> D) reserve locations for jams/beering
<greg-g> E) perseverance
<greg-g> F) that's about it
<snap-l> Would membership help?
<greg-g> I mean, mostly, it is being the point person for the team. Especially with the LoCo Council
<snap-l> (also, is anyone else looking to do it?)
<greg-g> Ubuntu Membership is not required, in fact, it is big reason I got memberhsip
<greg-g> brousch: you here? are you interested in being the LoCo Team point person?
<greg-g> _stink_: ^^
<brousch> oh, hey, forgot the meeting
<brousch> i vote for snap-l
<snap-l> Hey brousch, glad you could join us. :)
<jjesse> me 2
<brousch> hah, set my phone to remind me, then forgot it in the car
<greg-g> well done :)
<_stink_> here
<greg-g> alright, shall we put it to a vote?
<greg-g> or can I just appoint someone, like I'm a king or something?
<snap-l> Heh
<jjesse> yes
<snap-l> I was just asking if anyone was interested.
<_stink_> appoint, then ask for objections
<greg-g> (there's no rules on this, just how it would be best for our team personally)
<greg-g> snap-l: please kneel
<brousch> um
<jrwren> benevolent dictator until you move
<snap-l> hah
 * _stink_ starts logging
<snap-l> If nobody else wants it, I'll gladly do it
<greg-g> I, Greg Grossmeier, see you as a worthy and beneficial heir to the thrown. Do you take the responsibility?
<snap-l> With pleasure
<_stink_> i might get emotional, this is an big moment for snap-l.
<snap-l> Now, as members of the new republic (did nobody see Episode III? )
<brousch> it is. i kind of wih i wasn't drunk right now
<greg-g> So be it. From this day forward, snap-l is the new benevolant dictator for the Ubuntu Michigan LoCo until he sees fit
<snap-l> Thank you, everyone.
<_stink_> HUZZAH
<brousch> woohoo!
 * jjesse bends his knee to grovel at his new supreme overlord
 * brousch runs off to install debian
<greg-g> oh right, snap-l you may rise now
<_stink_> hah
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> jjesse: Now time to expose yourself, Darth Obvious
<snap-l> ;)
<jjesse> insert evil laugh here
<greg-g> awesome
<greg-g> well, I feel better about the future of the team now
<Wolfger> oh crap...
<_stink_> greg-g: thanks for your leadership, dear sir
<Wolfger> I showed up for the meeting, went afk, and forgot all about it
<greg-g> Wolfger: do you object to your new leadership?
<jrwren> i dunno... snap-l's not been as tolerant of me as greg-g always was ;P
<greg-g> lol
<brousch> i would've voted for Wolfger, but he sent me bad pr0n
<Wolfger> rofl
<Wolfger> I most certainly did not
<jjesse> brousch was it the midget stuff he sent me or something else?
<greg-g> man, you west siders and your porn ;)
<Wolfger> I linked a perfectly clean comic
<Wolfger> on a site that hosts pics of naked women
<jjesse> greg-g only in private cause we are all dutch christian reforms
<snap-l> greg-g: Thank you so muc for getting the team back into fighting shape.
<Wolfger> but I swear, when I look at the page, I see nothing worse that a few naughty words
<greg-g> Wolfger: linky?
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm quite tolerant
<Wolfger> greg-g: http://www.whatthechrist.com/2011/07/24/the-four-stages-of-adulthood/
<brousch> Wolfger: strange, now it goes to the comic. earilier it forwarded to porn videos
<snap-l> greg-g: As my first act as loco leader, I shall now raise you to the rafters
<Wolfger> brousch: when I tried to hot link just the image, it redirected to the main site
<snap-l> er, I mean your clothes
<snap-l> Er, jersey.
<_stink_> hah
<Wolfger> heheh
<Wolfger> snap-l++
<greg-g> hah
<brousch> how do you retire a loco leader?
<_stink_> cement boots
<brousch> scrape the ubuntu sticker off of his laptop and enshrine it?
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> all possible
<snap-l> greg-g: Who do we contact about making this official?
<greg-g> well, I think I change it in LP, then I send an eamil to loco-contacts@lists.u.c (which you should now join)
<snap-l> blergh. ;)
<greg-g> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
<greg-g> very low traffic
<brousch> excellne,t snap-l will love loco spam
<brousch> damn, dragon's milk is some powerful stuff
<snap-l> What was the other loco list that I was on that seemed like it blew up into loco hell
<greg-g> brousch: mmmmmmmmm, dragons milk
<snap-l> I'm already subscribed.
<greg-g> hmmm
<greg-g> oh, ok
<snap-l> First order of business: Adding that list to my linked-in contacts. ;)
<greg-g> oh right, they sometimes talk crazy talk about standardizing loco team names or whatever, safely ignore that until you see an official end announcement :)
<greg-g> lolz
<greg-g> snap-l: you are now the owner of the LP team
<snap-l> OK< anything else that we need to cover?
<greg-g> don't think so
<jjesse> do we have spend more time talking about ubuntu in here now?
<greg-g> always
<jrwren> i like all our windows talk
<jrwren> and eclipse
<greg-g> alright, thanks everyone for a wonderful tenure and a quick/productive meeting
<snap-l> Thanks again, greg-g
<jjesse> thanks greg-g
<snap-l> and no matter what, you're still the lead of the team. ;)
<snap-l> And still a Michiganian
<greg-g> :)
<jjesse> oh that reminds me, last week i was driving down i-94 between battle creek and kalamazoo and some guy in an volkswagon beetle drove me with his car full of stuff like he was moving and he looked like greg-g
<snap-l> Just ask Elvin Jones. He spent just a little while here, and we consider him a Michiganian
<greg-g> hah, its the thing to do I guess
<snap-l> Anything else?
<snap-l> OK, Thanks everyone!
<greg-g> :)
 * greg-g goe sback to packing
<brousch> i have tears in my eyes
 * snap-l fiddles in the fridge for some beer and Ancient Aliens.
<snap-l> brousch: It's the beer talking
<brousch> the dog farted and greg-g is leaving. it is all too much
<snap-l> Gah, dog farts are the worst
<brousch> "Hello Ben Rousch,
<brousch> The membership status of Craig Maloney (craig-decafbad) in the team
<brousch> Ubuntu-Michigan (ubuntu-michigan) was changed by Greg Grossmeier
<brousch> (greg.grossmeier) from Approved to Administrator."
<snap-l> Had a guide dog lay a load at work one time. I had my headphones on, and suddently smelled something that smelled like a fart. Except it wasn't going away"
<snap-l> OK, bbl.
<jrwren> gross!
<_stink_> lawl
<jrwren> i hope the guided person stepped in it :)
<_stink_> speaking of which, i think my cat is farting right next to me.
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> It's a brand new day, with snap-l in charge.
<Wolfger> it's about time we broke free of greg-g's tyrannical iron-fisted rule.
 * greg-g flees to the caribbean islands to live in exile
<Wolfger> What? How is that fair? You go flee someplace unpleasant, like Alaska. ;-)
<Wolfger> Northern Alaska
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> sorry I missed the transition of power
<rick_h_> congrats on freeing yourself greg-g
<rick_h_> how much bribery of snap-l did it take?
<Wolfger> I hear beer was involved
<Wolfger> probably got him good and drunk, and snap-l woke up in a bathtub full of ice
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Now now now, there will be no fleeing my tyrrany.
<brousch> the price of my loyalty is an ubuntu-powered segway
<snap-l> it better have tassels and a bike-bell.
<brousch> you are providing it for me. you have my minimum specs
<snap-l> Oh, I thought it was your umbrage for me keeping you in the loco. ;)
<Wolfger> let the tithing commence
<Wolfger> snap-l would like to receive at least one O'Reilly "deal of the day" per week from you people.
<Wolfger> I'll collect them all so that he does not need to be bothered with keeping track of them.
<snap-l> har har
<greg-g> http://blog.grossmeier.net/2011/08/08/new-leader-of-the-michigan-loco/
<greg-g> so, as I type out these announcements, I realize that for people who slur their speech a little, the leader of the loco's first name will still sound the same
<rick_h_> heh
<Wolfger> that's one hell of a slur if "greg" sounds like "snap" :-D
<rick_h_> Wolfger: is still drunk from last night
<Wolfger> ah, I see
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> "Everyone in the LoCo likes Craig" <- I don't much care for Craig.
<greg-g> :P
<snap-l> Stack Overflow has a great discussion on decorators: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/739654/understanding-python-decorators/1594484#1594484
<_stink_> yeah, started from that, and found http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=240808
<_stink_> both helpful
<snap-l> _stink_: Cool. Did you see that on twitter?
<snap-l> Also, Kashi Maple / Brown Sugar oatmeal is like eating a hot bowl of nothing
<_stink_> naw, just google result.  i don't follow twitter... i'm a bad human being
<snap-l> _stink_: Nah, just saw it there, and wondered if that might have prompted the discussion
<_stink_> gotcha.  naw, working on an unapproved thing for work.
<_stink_> want to get it together then BOOM drop it on em
<greg-g> well done
<_stink_> but will probably never get finished, knowing how these things go :P
<snap-l> "WE've decided since we have a work-study student who knows FoxPro that we're going to scrap your entire project so that they get some experience"
<snap-l> "Please rewrite everything in FoxPro with this student that will only be here one semester"
<rick_h_> _stink_: just be careful going to decorator happy. It was a big drawback of turbogears and can make chasing bugs down right fun
<Wolfger> that's... odd. You can assign a function to a variable, delete the function and the variable still acts as the function? Neat obfuscatory trick there. :-)
<_stink_> rick_h_: noted, thanks.  i was mostly noticing that many of my views wanted to do the same thing - auth and check permissions.
<rick_h_> Wolfger: :)
<_stink_> rick_h_: unless there's a better way in pyramid to do that?
<rick_h_> one of the best things of JS/Python
<snap-l> Wolfger: Python is not immune to programmer stupidity.
<rick_h_> _stink_: no, doing some of the same. Just heads up.
<_stink_> coolio
<snap-l> It might make aiming the gun at your foot more difficult, but will gladly let you pull the trigger if you so choose.
<rick_h_> Wolfger: it's awesome to be able to pass around functions at times
<rick_h_> _stink_: some stuff I like doing with context managers though
<rick_h_> make sure to check those out
<rick_h_> they're a bit more explicit and can do some handy extras
<_stink_> gotcha, thanks
<snap-l> I think I finally understand decorators
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> I'll know for sure when I implement them myself. ;)
<snap-l> But it's much more simple than I realized.
<rick_h_> yea, honestly not a ton to it. But there's work in implementing them smartly to avoid too much extra work and allow for tracing your errors/etc easily
<rick_h_> like anything, another layer of abstraction adds another layer of complexity
<snap-l> Yeah, with great power comes great responsibility.
<snap-l> also, cheetoes.
<Wolfger> with great power comes cheetoes?
<snap-l> Yes, yes indeedy
<rick_h_> "sorry boss, I can't take any more power. My dr will get pissed if I show up with cheeto fingers again!"
<snap-l> And ubuntu-powered segways. :)
<Wolfger> Ooh. Decorators can be fun.
<Wolfger> we can have self-rewriting code
<rick_h_> wait until I show you python metapramming
<rick_h_> where classes create classes :)
<snap-l> At which point the universe decides to take a breather.
<rick_h_> http://bitshaq.com/2011/07/14/basic-intro-to-python-meta-programming/
<rick_h_> I used that once to create a enum class for a project at work
<rick_h_> took a while to get right, but made the code much nicer to work with
<rick_h_> OTA hd antenna arrives today. Let's see if I can convince the wife to cut the cord
<snap-l> Cool
<rick_h_> wishing i lived down south with the rest of you guys
<snap-l> Which antenna did you get?
<rick_h_> would probably be a bit easier
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002FU60GG
<brousch> ug, i gave up and just went with the $15/mo comcast ultrabasic package
<snap-l> Would like a report. I picked up another HD antenna for my Father In Law before deciding he needed cable
<snap-l> Or rather, we needed to get him cable so he'd shut up about the TV.
<rick_h_> will do, going to test it on the upstairs tv. Hopefully won't need to attic mount it, but willing to try
<rick_h_> trying to get my wife to log what she watches and convince her she doens't need it any more
<snap-l> Shouldn't nee dto do that
<rick_h_> if I can get her to cut it, then a second roku would pay for itself one month and buy a series of tv every so often from amazon for all I care
<snap-l> We eventually had to get a cheap antenna at the apartment because someone was feeding back noise into the apartment communal TV antenna
<rick_h_> ah, sucky
<rick_h_> yea, I mean they have big things to mount, but really hoping to avoid that
<snap-l> yeah, managed to knock everything out
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-ClearStream4-HDTV-Antenna/dp/B001BRXW74/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1312813574&sr=8-5
<rick_h_> might be the next step if the little one fails
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Outdoor-Dual-Drive-Amplified-FM50/dp/B00009UHYQ <- Just get an FM antenna. ;)
<snap-l> Oh, I see you already found something ungodly ugly. ;)
<snap-l> Then you can get one of these: http://www.amazon.com/ANTENNACRAFT-ROTATOR-AUTOMATIC-ANTENNA-TDP/dp/B001JT32LA
<snap-l> Good God, I'm surprised they still make these things, and that they're still that ugly.
<brousch> we used that when we were kids, living in between ravenna and sparta
<snap-l> Yeah, we had one at our old house
<snap-l> (turn) Whirrrrrr chuck chuck chuck chuck chuck chuck
<snap-l> And my parents would get upset if you turned it
<brousch> we made my little brother do it, and he was not allowed to stop touching it because then the picture would degrade
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> apparently all youngest children have the same experiences.
<rick_h_> heh, gotta love it. User: "So this feature means it'll do this right?" Me: "Well, yea...it's supposed to but no one's used it yet and I've not tried it in a while, so think it's ok"
<rick_h_> though in my defense there is a functional tests for it, but it's still spooky that no user has tried it in 2yrs
<rick_h_> I must have missed the antenna tv age or something.
<rick_h_> well, we also lived in appt and on base housing so we couldn't mount stuff like that
<snap-l> rick_h_: You didn't have rabbit ears?
<rick_h_> I honestly can't remember
<_stink_> first it was rabbit ears... then when we got our first cable box, it didn't have a remote
<rick_h_> earliest tv I can recall is sat morning cartoons and think we were on base with cable at that point
<_stink_> so i was the remote
<snap-l> There was a nook in the downstairs "family room" that had the TV. So I couldn't reach it. ;)
<greg-g> man, that feels good, I reassigned all of my pending tickets in Footprints (ugh) to the person taking over those duties
<snap-l> Footprints?
<snap-l> Is that something for work?
<greg-g> crappy crappy crappy ticketing system
<greg-g> some proprietary expensive system that is horrible to use but it runs on MS Server so of course we bought it
<snap-l> I have yet to see a work ticketing system that wasn't OSS that didn't suck
<snap-l> Save maybe for Atlassian, but I wasn't a consumer.
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> the only other option here is JIRA, but that is only an option if you are a tech group
<snap-l> Yea, JIRA is what I was thinking of
<greg-g> yeah
<snap-l> I can never remember what it's called, outside of just calling it "Atlassian"
<snap-l> since all of their products integrate together.
<greg-g> oh right, confluence for the wiki and all that
<jjesse_> footprints is owned by numera
<jjesse_> used to be track it
<greg-g> jjesse: yeah, I hate it, way too many clicks and page reloads to do anything quickly
<jjesse> or numera software bought track-it and is upgrading/migrating everyone over to Footprints instead of doing work on Track-It
<greg-g> and no email interface to the system (as a person on this end, it is email only for the people submitting tickets to us)
<greg-g> hah
<jjesse> yeah i've heard it sucks, never used it
<greg-g> be thankful
 * snap-l picked up the Tie Fighter Collector's CDROM from the Salvation Army this weekend for $1
<snap-l> Plays nicely
<_stink_> sqlalchemy just did something that surprised me.  in a pyramid view, i set object.some_field = some_value, when some_field isn't in the database and isn't mapped.  i expected sqlalchemy to raise an exception...
<_stink_> but it didn't - it just ignored it.
<_stink_> rick_h_: --^ is this normal?
<rick_h_> _stink_: yep
<rick_h_> talked about it at my talk
<rick_h_> if the video ever got up you could see
<_stink_> welllll i guess i should have been there. :)
<rick_h_> models aren't limited to just db fields
<_stink_> ahhh right
<_stink_> duh
<_stink_> so my instance will have a self.bad_field
<_stink_> cool.
<_stink_> and flush won't care.
<rick_h_> you can build whole classes
<rick_h_> right, sec, let me find that slide with the example
<rick_h_> https://raw.github.com/mitechie/sqlalchemy_pyohio2011/master/src/presentation.rst
<rick_h_> search for "username_min"
<_stink_> now i have to decide whether to report back to the user that he made a mistake.
<rick_h_> how did it get stuck on the class by the user?
<_stink_> the user sent a PUT to update.
<_stink_> implementing a REST service.
<rick_h_> ah, need to use setattr vs just looping/setting
<rick_h_> sorry, check with getattr
<_stink_> setattr raises if an attr isn't already defined?
<rick_h_> no, it doesn't sorry thinking of the fly too much
<_stink_> np
<_stink_> but i see what you mean, getattr
<rick_h_> you can do a for key, val in request.params.iteritems():
<rick_h_> if getattr(model, key):
<rick_h_> setattr(model, key, val)
<rick_h_> kind of thing
<_stink_> yeah, sweet.
<_stink_> perfect, thanks.
<rick_h_> and in the else: you can raise value error or something if you want
<rick_h_> sec, let me get you some goodies
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/__init__.py#L79
<rick_h_> check out the "fromdict" method
<rick_h_> what I do, is ignore things that aren't valid ("submit" and such)
<rick_h_> and just do rick = User.find(13)
<rick_h_> rick.from_dict(request.params)
<rick_h_> and boom, updated
<_stink_> my favorite thing about bookie: it is the reference "rick's way" implementation. :)
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> hah
<rick_h_> yea, I use this same thing at work as well, but I really like the "from_dict" for simple setting from posted values
<brousch> my friend adam has a giant python project he uses that way. you ask him how to do something and he links you to his similar code in COILS
<rick_h_> so I stick that from_dict onto Base
<rick_h_> and I can use it on any declarative model after that
<_stink_> cool, so you don't warn the caller if unmapped stuff is set.  but no reason i couldn't raise something instead.
<rick_h_> I don't set unknown stuff
<rick_h_> I only set things if the field is part of the model
<rick_h_> else I just ignore it
<_stink_> oh
<_stink_>  i see
<_stink_> for col in self.__table__.columns:
<_stink_> ja
<rick_h_> so if you try to add something via mucking with POST I never use it
<rick_h_> yea, safer that way
<_stink_> rock on, thanks.
<rick_h_> http://eclecti.cc/computergraphics/snow-globe-part-one-cheap-diy-spherical-projection for you maker types
<rick_h_> even some pygame for snap-l
<Wolfger> Very cool, aside from the price tag
<rick_h_> bah, all you need is a 3d printer, pico projector, some math skill, easy peasy
<Wolfger> sure, I'll just whip the 3d printer and pico projector out of my attic....
<jrwren> are you serious about the foxpro? snap-l ?
<jrwren> greg-g: last time I checked Footprints was written in Perl ;)
<greg-g> jrwren: oh? well, what I was told by the people who run it is that the reason we use it is because it runs on IIS
<jrwren> terrible.
<jrwren> i'm sure it does run on IIS
<jrwren> but its perl.
<jrwren> when i managed it at OU it was perl cgi.
<jrwren> not even fastcgi
<jrwren> and they did this weird thing where they bundled all the perl together
<jrwren> so it didn't really load modules.
<jrwren> or maybe it did.
<jrwren> but i remember some weird stuff
<greg-g> oh, I bet it was weird
<greg-g> this thing seems so wrong on so many levels
<snap-l> sigh
<rick_h_> hmm, no devin :(
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm just giving you a taste into academic thought. ;)
<snap-l> (was re: foxpro)
<rick_h_> anyone play with a usb tv tuner on linux?
<greg-g> nope
<snap-l> Not I
<rick_h_> meh, I'll try to be patient and see if devin comes to CHC then
<rick_h_> so hard...instant gratifiction...ugh
<snap-l> you may need to wait a week
<snap-l> he's coming back on Wednesday
<rick_h_> bah, sucky
<rick_h_> this won't do
<ptenhoopen__> $123.49 for that snow globe project --> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002AKKF12/ref=pe_164800_20723960_pe_epc_d8
<snap-l> you know what would really be cool would be a planetarium with this
<_stink_> snap-l++
<_stink_> i've had a super cheap and open source planetarium projector in mind for a couple of years now
<_stink_> first thing i thought of too
<greg-g> yeah, use Stellarium as the imagery backend
<_stink_> o/
<brousch> make it so
<_stink_> k hang on
<Wolfger> I was thinking it would be an awesome display for Eve Online :-)
<Wolfger> $123 is cheap(er). The web page said you could build it for $200.
<brousch> ptenhoopen__ has seedy underworld contacts that get him items at a "discount"
<ebarch> rick_h_: I've done a bit with capture devices, mainly for capturing motion events from webcams...what are you trying to do?
<greg-g> ptenhoopen__: / Wolfger apparently that one only works with handheld devices (because of the input type) and you need another cable (not included) for it to work with a laptop/desktop. Apparently that cable can be expensive for some reason.
<rick_h_> ebarch: just want to test my hd antenna
<rick_h_> easier to hook to the laptop, go around the house, try to find the right angle, etc
<ebarch> rick_h_: gotcha...don't know much about actually tuning channels...do you know if your card is supported out of the box?
<rick_h_> ebarch: hadn't bought a card yet, that's what I wanted to check before I paid any $$
<ebarch> rick_h_: the mythtv page has a pretty good overview of what has the best compatibility: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Digital_Tuner_Cards
<ptenhoopen__> greg-g:  OK, sorry to pass along misinfo.
<greg-g> ptenhoopen__: hah! of course not! I got a bee in my bonet to look at the 1 star reviews and that is what people were complaining about
<snap-l> I've found that looking up tuner cards is like a rathole
<rick_h_> heh
<snap-l> because once they get supported, the whole lineup changes
<ebarch> yeah, unfortunately I haven't had a whole lot of luck...or I'll get a card working on ubuntu and the next release will refuse to play nice with it
<rick_h_> damn, I hate it when I do cool things that the boss doesn't think is cool
<snap-l> rick_h_: Such as?
<rick_h_> snap-l: I built a controller in pylons to run any commands in your fabfile via a web request
<rick_h_> he's trying to build a 'master' fab file to go through a bunch of hosts and check their git checkout verions/etc
<rick_h_> so I thought if the apps had a fabfile api exposed he coudl just do http requests
<rick_h_> but doesn't like that
<gamerchick02> i got the email about the change in leadership.
<gamerchick02> very cool
<gamerchick02> congrats snap-l.
<gamerchick02> sorry i wasn't at the meeting last night.
<snap-l> gamerchick02: Thanks!
<gamerchick02> :) You're welcome.
<gamerchick02> ok. i have a question. what twitter/statusnet apps does everyone in here use? I'm using gwibber, but til it gets updated to the next version (probably in oneric) it's going to be slow and it loves to eat my CPU. what has everyone tried?
<gamerchick02> i love Pino but it hasn't been updated since the Oathpocalypse.
<gamerchick02> Qwit is kinda hinky for me... doesn't seem to do what i need.
<Blazeix> Oauthpocalypse... I love that.
<gamerchick02> hehe
<gamerchick02> when twitter forced oauth. and that's fine, but... yeah
<gamerchick02> and typing into mustard on my phone is fine, but i can't type as fast on the software keyboard as i can on my laptop.
<gamerchick02> fine for the couch, actually.
<snap-l> I still use gwibber
<snap-l> but I only use twitter / statusnet
<snap-l> I think Oneiric's gwibber will not be so piggy
<snap-l> but I'll believe it when I see it
<gamerchick02> i have facebook hooked in there
<gamerchick02> could that be causing issues?
<gamerchick02> i'm not getting messages from FB (the threading and timestamping is all wrong on it and it drives me batty)
<gamerchick02> i hope oneric's gwibber won't be so piggy
<gamerchick02> ALSO, how can i stop gmail from alerting me of new email on my phone?
 * gamerchick02 is a newb android user
<greg-g> gamerchick02: probably a setting on that last one?
<Blazeix> gamerchick02: yeah, just a setting for android: Menu -> More -> Settigs -> [your account] -> Email Notifications
<gamerchick02> i'm using the gmail app
<gamerchick02> well
<gamerchick02> i might go and use the mail app if i can control things better
<Blazeix> that was for the gmail app.
<Blazeix> at least, the default android gmail app, you might have something different if you have one of the non-standard android OSs.
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> i have stock android from Vergin Mobile
<gamerchick02> thanks, i went back to the standard email program; seems to work better than gmails? anyway.
<gamerchick02> i seem to have it set up twice?
<gamerchick02> good god, i thought i was a geek.
<Blazeix> so do you have not have that setting in the gmail app?
<Blazeix> or are you changing apps for another reason?
<gamerchick02> there's a default "email" app on my phone, which is what i thought i set up originally
<gamerchick02> i also found a "gmail" app on my phone which i set up as well.
<gamerchick02> i do have that setting in the gmail app
<Blazeix> ok. I use the 'gmail' app for my gmail account, and the 'email' account for work email accounts.
<Blazeix> the 'email' app for work emails, that is
<gamerchick02> ah
<Blazeix> it looks like both apps have that available as a setting, though
<gamerchick02> there i think i have it fixed
<gamerchick02> i shut off all sound from email notifications
<gamerchick02> just the little mail thing in the notification bar which is what i want
<gamerchick02> i feel so silly asking for help when it's right there
<gamerchick02> the manual isn't much help
<rick_h_> _stink_: http://python.mirocommunity.org/video/4392/pyohio-2011-sqlalchemy-tutoria
<rick_h_> man I talk too fast to do subtitles in any easy way
<rick_h_> and use horrible broken english lol
<brousch> you should read from a script like me!
<rick_h_> man, yea your subtitles must be easy!
<jrwren> gamerchick02: maybe newer gwibber is in backports? or maybe we could backport it ourselves?
<gamerchick02> i don't know. i'm thinking of switching to something else (turpial? i don't know) til Oneric hits
<brousch> subtitles?
<rick_h_> yea, you're supposed to go in and subtitle your talk
<gamerchick02> bbiab
<rick_h_> there's a drop down on the video when you watch it on mirocommunity
<brousch> sheat
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-09
<greg-g> man, resizing a 2 tb disk takes a while
<rick_h_> heh, just a few eh
<greg-g> it's still all blinky lights but it's been going for over an hour :(
<greg-g> I need a beer, thank god someone brought some Corona to our BBQ. Light, easy drinking, not strong enough to get drunk.
<snap-l> big drives are slow to format
<jrwren> not SSD
<snap-l> ssd can be slow to
<snap-l> o
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> true. my macbook air is surprisingly slow at du -kxa / | sort -nr | less
<greg-g> g'morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> indeed
<brousch> how is our king today?
<snap-l> was sitting on the throne most of the evening last night
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> http://pkaudio.blogspot.com/2011/08/more-bliss-all-keyboard-control-in-os-x.html heh
<rick_h_> can I get a "you're doing it wrong..." :)
<snap-l> Hey, if C-X C-S is speed for him, I'm not one to argue.
<snap-l> I mean, when automobiles were first coming on the market, people were worried that if you went over 60MPH, it might take your breath away
<snap-l> then again, riding in a Model T with no roll-cage overhead might very well qualify.
<snap-l> Open Metalcast Episode 27: One More Time: http://ur1.ca/4vqnp
<brousch> but i just downloaded the new morbid angel
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo9v_GIuDBk
<snap-l> "Hi all at decafbad.net. What you thinking about chicken recipes?" <- Spam comment.
<Wolfger> ???
<Wolfger> that's just bizarre
<snap-l> So, how is everyone this fine morning?
<jjesse> ready to be home
<jjesse> 3 weeks in a row is a bit rough
<snap-l> Ugh, sorry to hear that
<jjesse> there isn't much to do in bristol ct
<Wolfger> nonsense. You have an internet connection. Therefore, there's plenty to do there. :-D
<jjesse> haha
<jjesse> but sometimes you just need to get out of the hotel
<Wolfger> Yeah. Those times are called "going to work". At least, that's how my business trips go.
<jjesse> i agree
<Wolfger> always seems like if I go out for dinner on a business trip, my entire life consists of "work, dinner, sleep, repeat"
<jjesse> yup that's how its been for 3 weeks
<jjesse> sometimes its work, run, dinner, bookstore
<jjesse> but those are a 20 mile drive from hotel
<snap-l> Anyone looking for someone like me for work? Let me know.
<greg-g> snap-l: !!
<greg-g> ?
<snap-l> Customer has made it somewhat clear they're looking to bring what I do in-house, so unless ALU comes up with something else for me, I'll be back on unemployment.
<greg-g> ugh!
<snap-l> and frankly, I don't put a whole lot of faith in them.
<brousch> oh man, that sucks
<jjesse> bummer
<snap-l> No worries
<snap-l> Been there before, getting used to it
<brousch> snap-l: what exactly do you do?
<ptenhoopen> snap-l:  What is ALU?
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/files/resume.pdf
<snap-l> ptenhoopen: Alcatel-Lucent
<snap-l> What do I do? Not what I'm doing. :)
<snap-l> What do I want to do? Not what I'm doing. :)
<brousch> yeah, want to do is a better question
<snap-l> I want to write Python, preferably design my own games
<snap-l> and get paid scads of cash to do it
<snap-l> Unfortunately, that's delusional at this point.
<brousch> jjesse is always looking for people ;) windows and symantec!
<jjesse> yes i am
<snap-l> And I'd like to never see Windows ever again
<brousch> well games is a long shot
<snap-l> And Symentec, no offense, can die in a fire.
<jjesse> understand
<Wolfger> Chrysler's hiring... not sure if it's anything Python/Perl-ish, but you might actually get a direct position at this point in time
<snap-l> Wolfger: *sigh*
<Wolfger> :-)
<greg-g> snap-l: update your hobbies section to say "Leader of a 200+ member Ubuntu Community Team" :)
<Wolfger> greg-g++
<ColonelPanic001> "I am quite popular in the death metal podcasting community"
<ColonelPanic001> be sure to write it with a pompus sounding accent
<Wolfger> ColonelPanic001--
<ColonelPanic001> >:-|
<ColonelPanic001> Return my karma immediately.
<snap-l> Anywho, I'm going to heh
<ptenhoopen> snap-l: I'd rather be making games too!
<brousch> really. canonical has open positions
<snap-l> bah, start and stop thoughts
<_stink_> jjesse: you visit ESPN?
<snap-l> We have a few meetings today to discuss, but I'm not waiting.
<snap-l> Damn Open Source, making me want to not sell all of my crappy code.
<snap-l> I could write a wrapper to grep and sell it for $29.95 shareware. ;)
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> the plotter tech said i should market my pdf->tif conversion script. it's 100 lines of python using imagemagic
<jrwren> wtf... askubuntufeed on twitter, lol
<snap-l> jrwren: Seriously? Talk about a crap feed
<jrwren> yar
<gamerchick02> snap-l, it's a good idea to put in there something about the LoCo
<jrwren> someday, i'll write my own twitter client that lets me /ignore in my searches :)
<jrwren> snap-l: you are against selling software?
<snap-l> No, I'm against charging for stupid software.
<jrwren> agreed
<jrwren> ya'll ever heard of code for america?
<jrwren> "The non-profit, which was inspired by Teach For America, develops open-source software to help solve community problems -- like letting parents and students use GPS data to check school bus schedules. "
<jrwren> soudns cool
<brousch> we have something called givecamp where devs code for local nonprofits
<jrwren> yes, I did one of those.
<jrwren> I'm not a fan.
<jrwren> in fact, i know the guys who run your givecamp ;)
<brousch> most of them are .net, so i don't know them well
<jrwren> that is why I don't like the givecamps.
<jrwren> too .net centric and develop centric, instead of "best solution for teh charity"
<brousch> my biggest problem is that you're dropping 2 days of coding at their feet, then going away
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, I know a couple people who work for CfA right now, actually
<jrwren> oh awesome!
<rick_h_> I always wanted to try to do a givecamp thing, but yea, it seems a bit strange
<rick_h_> wonder if a mentor give camp would work better
<rick_h_> bring your tech lackey in and let's teach/code something to help maybe
<brousch> hah
<snap-l> Or something where you start the project, and then put it up on github and continue hacking on it
<snap-l> or somewhere public
<brousch> supporting the charity is the issue
<brousch> they have a problem at 10pm on a weekday, who do they call?
<jrwren> many people have done that.
<jrwren> i know a couple guys were hacking on it months after the give camp.
<jrwren> i read the FAQ for the upcoming ann Arbor give camp, and it really turned me off.
<jrwren> so I"m not going.
<jrwren> http://annarborgivecamp.org/Home/FAQs/Developers
<brousch> i'd almost rather do it outside of the givecamp
<jrwren> "Can we form our own teams?"  ..."each team must have at least 1 Developer, 1 DBA and 1 Designer"  really!  A DBA!!!
<jrwren> "The DBA will be responsible for the tables, stored procedures and the data access layer"
<jrwren> WTF?!?!?
<jrwren> Q: "What about Content Management?"
<jrwren> A: "We will be looking for sponsorship from CMS companies to provide us with licenses to their products"
<brousch> yipee!
<jrwren> WTF?!?! its like they haven't heard of any of the most popular CMS in the world????
<jrwren> and teh sad part is, the 1 givecamp that I did go to... MOST of the charities had nothing or static web adn would have benefited from just moving to drupal or joomla
<brousch> wordpress
<jrwren> EXACTLY!
<jrwren> oh yeah... this is a gem.
<jrwren> Q: "What technologies can I use?"
<jrwren> A: "You can only use technology that has been released."
<brousch> and dreamhost provides free hosting for charities
<jrwren> I don't even know waht that means in term of open source.
<jrwren> if a gem is on github, its "released"
<brousch> unreleased technology?
<jrwren> *sigh*
<brousch> yeah, i know one of gr organizers and i feel kind of bad for not signing up, but i'm not comfortable with a couple of apsects
<greg-g> ugh, that is a horrible FAQ
<snap-l> Sounds like someone putting their corporate culture on OSS development.
<greg-g> exactly
<rick_h_> I read released to just me you can't build something on the dev version of rails
<jrwren> brousch: ditto me and Ann Arbor.
<jrwren> greg-g: snap-l: it IS MSFT putting their take on "give camp"
<jrwren> its an MSFT adgenda
<snap-l> Typical. ;)
<jrwren> it didn't start taht way.
<jrwren> but MSFT kind of got involved and took over.
<jrwren> what surprises me is that I know and like almost all of these people : http://annarborgivecamp.org/Home/About
<jrwren> I'm actually surprised that they wrote that crap
<Wolfger> well, start up loco-camp :-)
<rick_h_> I meaheh
<rick_h_> oops, I mean heh
<rick_h_> is it quitting time yet?
<Wolfger> sadly, no
<jrwren> what are teh 3 fundamental function formats?  map, reduce, ???
<snap-l> reuse
<snap-l> repeat
<brousch> rinse
<snap-l> simmer
<Blazeix> maybe something .Where or .filter ?
<brousch> the new morbid angel sounds more like pantera than morbid angel
<jrwren> filter!
<jrwren> ty!
<jrwren> filter, map reduce.  DUH
<jrwren> i was just hoping it was one that I needed to solve this problem... it wasn't :(
<Blazeix> hah
<jrwren> it was actually map, I just didn't see it at first :)
<Wolfger> "[this] Monitor will facilitate your computer screen needs with its 16:9 aspect ratio, thus allowing you to surf the Web with ease" ... wtf?
<Wolfger> since when is 16:9 aspect ratio helpful for browsing the web?
<Wolfger> 9:16 would be better
<Blazeix> I block all visitors to my websites that don't have a 16:9 ratio
<Wolfger> on most sites
<Blazeix> makes the fonts look funny, otherwise.
<Wolfger> Blazeix: something is wrong with your fonts^h^h^h^h^h^h^h
<Blazeix> well if they just used a modern, standards-compliant monitor, they wouldn't put me through this.
<brousch> Wolfger: obviously they are targeting the ignorant hordes who ask things like "can i surf the web with this monitor?"
<Wolfger> did you just refer to 16:9 as modern? Get with the times... your website needs to look good on people's phones. :-)
<Blazeix> I'm not sure this whole mobile thing is going to take off.
<Wolfger> but getting down to the question I ultimately had before market-speak made me all ranty...
<Wolfger> this is an LED monitor. Anybody used one, and/or have opinions about LED vs LCD?
<brousch> LED makes the web look crisper
<brousch> more crisp?
<_stink_> more crisper
<Wolfger> :-p
<brousch> more crisper sounds like a vegan model refridgerator
<Wolfger> lol
<rick_h_> led is nice, lighter usually more even backlight
<rick_h_> ips is what you want though. I'm done with non-ips panels
<snap-l> ips?
<rick_h_> http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ah, yes.
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_i_0?rh=k%3Aips+monitor%2Ci%3Aelectronics&keywords=ips+monitor&ie=UTF8&qid=1312913122#/ref=sr_st?keywords=ips+monitor&qid=1312913130&rh=k%3Aips+monitor%2Cn%3A172282&sort=pmrank
<rick_h_> is what you want to check
<snap-l> When I get some mad money again, I think I need to update this monitor. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, I want to replace the two dells. I got the cheap ones so I could get a matched pair and not happy with them :(
<brousch> you didn't do 40 hours of research and field tests?
<rick_h_> I've realized I'm a bit out of the norm
<brousch> a bit?
<rick_h_> I work in so much text based with small fonts and such that I'm pickier than my windows/gui brethren
<snap-l> Well, you're also doing graphical design
<rick_h_> heh :)
<rick_h_> yea, when I get going layouts/etc I can get into light design stuff like that
<brousch> norm                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      rick_h_
<snap-l> and having a monitor that changes color temperature based on whether you slouch or raise your head is not ideal
<brousch> geez, that didn't work
<rick_h_> but with the triple monitors I can't get them all that the perfect viewing angle so something with a wider viewing angle is needed
<rick_h_> brousch: lol
<rick_h_> yea, with the 22" I stick in portrait mode you can see it shift as you look up/down it
<brousch> ok, in a webapp i need to do a bunch of stuff to an uploaded image. what's the easiest way to do that without making the webapp wait for the process to finish?
<rick_h_> ajax upload with html5 file upload api
<brousch> the upload isn't the problem, the processing is
<rick_h_> oh, queue and process background
<rick_h_> cron/queue watching workers, etc
 * brousch faceplants cron, of course
<rick_h_> easiest is to just stick the thing in the db and have cron come behind it and processes the work
<brousch> yes, that would be easy
<brousch> i already have the db set up to easily mark whether it's processed or not
<brousch> and a 1 or 2 minute delay doesn't matter
<brousch> i love it
 * brousch grabs rick_h_'s big, bald head and kisses it
 * rick_h_ runs
<snap-l> Could use rabbitMQ as well if it's a true queue
<snap-l> or Zero or whatever is the current hotness
<brousch> yeah, that's overkill
<brousch> i was looking for something simpler
<brousch> i can just select from the db and then run the process on each image
<brousch> or even select one and wait for the next cron run for the next one
<snap-l> brousch: I'd recommend a processing state
<brousch> i have is_initialized=False when the record is created
<snap-l> that way if you decide to expand this out further (multiple workers), you'll at least know who is working on what.
<brousch> then the process script can set it to True
<brousch> hm, good idea
<snap-l> If you really want to get fancy, put the machine name / process ID in there
<snap-l> that way, if it craps out, you can at least re-process
<brousch> if the process took over a minute it could run into trouble
<snap-l> have some form of clean-up script look for stragglers.
<brousch> like if someone uploaded a gigabit image
<snap-l> or the power went out
<brousch> the cloud never goes down!
<jjesse> hahhaaha didn't amazon have another problem yesterday
<brousch> :-D
<Blazeix> yeah, but it was europe, so it didn't count
<brousch> thanks, snap-l
<brousch> want me to kiss your head too?
<rick_h_> Blazeix: heh, you mean US-EAST-1?
<Blazeix> oh, that too?
<rick_h_> yea
<Blazeix> well, it's the east coast, so it doesn't count.
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, snap-l is right. Start a status class now that processes from one state to the next
<rick_h_> always end up adding new states to crap
<brousch> i'll make it a string for now
<rick_h_> sorry, yea I mean it's always a string in the db
<rick_h_> I just do class stuff so I can say
<rick_h_> if image.status == Status.NEW: ...work goes here
<rick_h_> vs crapping string comapres that you can typo like:
<rick_h_> if image.status == 'New', I mean 'new' I mean 'NEW'
<rick_h_> crap, who put 'newe' in there!
<brousch> hm
<brousch> so status would be an enum or something?
<rick_h_> yea, basically
<brousch> or a table with a list of statuses ?
<rick_h_> so that depends. I've done it both ways
<brousch> which way works best with sqlalchemy?
<rick_h_> the db way is a bit easier
<rick_h_> to do it in code you have to do some metaclass stuff to get the code to work right
<brousch> ug
<rick_h_> http://techspot.zzzeek.org/2011/01/14/the-enum-recipe/
<rick_h_> mike did a great post on this though
<Blazeix> oh, wow, that's pretty cool
<Blazeix> I've always preferred the DB way, and that makes it really nice.
<rick_h_> yea, I've not implemented that total method yet
<rick_h_> but on my list at some point to try out. Seems like a good db-way recipe
<snap-l> Our DBAs also got grumpy when we proposed a character-based primary key.
<snap-l> Thank God we had one DBA on our team. ;)
<Blazeix> I'm guilty of getting grumpy about that too.
<Blazeix> sometimes it's necessary for performance, but in general I love my foreign keys
<rick_h_> https://gist.github.com/1134869
<rick_h_> that's what I ended up doing to not have to store it in the db
<rick_h_> made it easy to add new ones/etc without migrations
<rick_h_> but more involved
<rick_h_> turned more into "Dammit, I know I can get this to work!"
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I can see why you'd want to do that
<snap-l> still, I'm in the foreign key camp. Keeping as much info in the database as possible is A+
<snap-l> (or am I misreading something)
<rick_h_> started out with dictionary, then a namedtuple, then this
<rick_h_> no, you're right, a seperate table and forign key is one way to go
<snap-l> All I know is there were some tables that I inherited at Chrysler that I wish had a foreign key constraint that if the data wasn't normalized, it would have shot 220V into their chair.
<snap-l> Y,N,.,.,.,Yes,No, but they should, , ,
<snap-l> it was much worse than what I can remember
<snap-l> And of course, going back to the customer was futile.
<snap-l> "it's in the database". :-p
<Blazeix> yeah, I had an internship at Rockwell Collins, and we had NULL, null, Null, 'N/A' and ''.
<Blazeix> and a couple others. Imported from Excel, of course.
<snap-l> Blazeix: and in a Varchar field, no douby.
<Blazeix> yup
<snap-l> Likely along with another varchar field containing money amounts.
<Blazeix> guid primary keys in varchar fields too
<snap-l> $100.00, $100000.00, 1100.00, 1e+48
<snap-l> Blazeix: Oh, that's awesome.
<Blazeix> yeah, didn't return there after that internship...
<snap-l> "So, when you come back here to work on this system" (sickly look)
<snap-l> "Yeah, sure... I'll be back to work on this. Also, my family and I are moving. To Siberia. Outside of cell-phone range."
<Blazeix> the company was actually pretty cool, you can move around internally and do a bunch of different things.
<Blazeix> but there were just too many WTFs, like company wide IE6 mandates, etc
<rick_h_> gotta love those
<snap-l> Oh, you must be talking about the auto industry
<snap-l> Where we wonder if cars really are built by magic.
<brousch> ok, i ended up creating some constants for the statuses and then in my db creation script i import them and insert them into the table
<brousch> i like it
<rick_h_> cool
<brousch> it feels pythonic because i have to scrape the models.py for the right constants
<brousch> very meta
<brousch> it's in the models.py right now, but i could move the constants to config
<brousch> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/381/
<snap-l> brousch: Not sure I'd agree with using 99 for bad
<brousch> 69 for naughty?
<brousch> it's int, so i guess -1 would make sense
<snap-l> -1, or something other than 99
<snap-l> If you want to get IBM, declare ranges. ;)
<brousch> that was damn easy to change
<snap-l> There's a bunny outside my window while I have Gustav Holst's MARS: THE BRINGER OF WAR playing.
<snap-l> he's looking quite content
<rick_h_> look at those pretty declarative models
<rick_h_> wait, String?! gah!!!!!
<rick_h_> and pretty_dt?
<rick_h_> isn't that template work?
<brousch> i'd rather do it once and store it
<rick_h_> boooooooooooooo :P
<brousch> it doesn't change, so why redo it every time?
<rick_h_> it's display logic
<rick_h_> you've never had someone come and go "oh no, we want those dates displayed as YYYY/MM not mm/YYYY
<brousch> well the format is defined in the config, so you can set it to whatever you want
<rick_h_> right, but not after the fact
<rick_h_> you'll get incompatible strings in there
<rick_h_> it's a developer cardinal sin
<brousch> heh
<brousch> you can always go back and reset them based on the timestamp :P
<rick_h_> tis, true, but then I can say you're storing extra data in the database you don't need
<rick_h_> that's resource wastage :P
<rick_h_> all cool, just an FYI
<rick_h_> also would check out unicode columns vs string
<rick_h_> helpful when you get to that stuff
<_stink_> misread that as 'unicorn'.
<rick_h_> unicorn columns rock. They read the clients mind and translate unicode on the fly
<snap-l> Honestly, if you have a date type, just use that. :)
<_stink_> :)
<snap-l> And if you're using Sybase / MS SQL Server, and are storing dollar amounts, use the money type
<snap-l> can't stand it when people use float for money.
<snap-l> only because I have in the past, and now know better. ;)
<brousch> db.Unicode instead of db.String ?
<brousch> i made the change. nothing asploded
<brousch> so you think i should have the template the timestamp and have it make the pretty datetime?
<ptenhoopen> So, store just a date in the db and format it in the template?
<ptenhoopen> date/time I mean
<ptenhoopen> Makes sense
<rick_h_> yes, just about always do formatting and stuff like that in the template
<rick_h_> you can set a config setting or something that's global and use that to change/update
<brousch> ok, that was pretty easy to fix
<brousch> i think it reduced my loc by 1
<snap-l> Man, there's not enough classical on Magnatune
<brousch> thanks
<Blazeix> rick_h_: mug.org/events/ has been updated, thanks
<snap-l> Thanks, Blazeix
<snap-l> picking up in #mug
<snap-l> #mugorg, rather
<rick_h_> Blazeix: cool, just more hacking time for me :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Sheesh
<rick_h_> sheesh?
<rick_h_> I'm going to toss that camera if it keeps making noises
<rick_h_> crap people, turn your garbage off
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<snap-l> Or at least put it on vibrate
<brousch> cameras, garbage, and vibrators?
<brousch> what kind of movie are you guys making?
<snap-l> brousch: Just another evening in West MI, eh?
<Blazeix> I'm kind of interested to see the results of tonights video
<Blazeix> it will be like a roller coaster
<Blazeix> you're just happily watching and then "whoa! camera falls of the table!"
<snap-l> I'm sure there are sex tapes with better cinematography.
<waldo323> with batteries that stay in the devices better?
<snap-l> so many wrong ways to go with that. ;)
<waldo323> ouch bright light
<waldo323> instant headache
<snap-l> Seriously? Seriously?
<waldo323> :-\
<snap-l> greg-g: DIsk-Utility on Mac is very good at making Mac partitions
<snap-l> and not much else.
<Blazeix> well, the camera has fallen over 4 times so far...
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-10
<brousch> you can get ext3 and ntfs for osx
<brousch> it'll also do fat
<Blazeix> rick_h_: this is the file/blob api I was talking about: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/file/xhr2/
<Blazeix> not sure if it will do what you need, it really seems like html5 manifest is the way to go
<rick_h_> Blazeix: ok cool, will check that out then
<rick_h_> yea, the file api stuff looks like it's upload/local access only
<rick_h_> not store down
<rick_h_> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/file/dndfiles/
<Blazeix> rick_h_: if you scroll down to the 'practical examples' there might be more useful stuff
<Blazeix> like using http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/file/filesystem/
<rick_h_> oh hmm, the use cases have download items in there
<rick_h_> oh nice, that has file writing, directories, very cool
<Blazeix> yeah, I think if you really wanted to, you could recreate the manifest functionality :P
<rick_h_> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-html5/browse_thread/thread/9be7a2dc04d9af67
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> ok, will check out the manifest then
<rick_h_> I guess I did say it was chrome only
<rick_h_> so not like I have to make it compatible, and often the issues are mobile specific
<rick_h_> just hear enough people complain and you block out certain ideas
<rick_h_> wonder if I can still use that quota api stuff with manifest
<snap-l> I love that by putting up three videos on the internet about Scribus, I'm somehow a Scribus guru
<Blazeix> I'd say that qualifies, actually.
<snap-l> I've got a guy in Windows who is asking me about fonts.
<brousch> http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/pillars-python-six-python-web-frameworks-compared-169442
<brousch> Web2py FTW!
<snap-l> And this is why I think Infoworld is stupid
<brousch> wtf is cubicweb?
<snap-l> MAke a controversial article with half-truths, and just watch the clicks pour in
<brousch> damn, i'm feeding the corporate troll?
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> Think about it; what purpose would having the comparison chart on the front page serve? Aren't those usually at the end of the article?
<snap-l> But, put it at the front of the article:
<brousch> the article has no substance
<snap-l> "Web2py got a 9 for capability, but Pyramid got an 8. WTF?"
<brousch> and zope got 9!
<snap-l> Web2py got a 9 for ease of installation, but Pyramid for an 8. WTF?"
<brousch> that's probably correct
<snap-l> so you're compelled to click to find out why.
<snap-l> The Web2py framework is an abstraction paradise. Databases hide behind a Database Abstraction Layer (DAL). Web2py's rendering system will try to find a view that -- depending on context -- displays an object in HTML, XML, JSON, or any of the half-dozen protocols the framework supports. Intelligently crafted by a professor of computer science, Web2py's template system actually lets you use Python as an HTML-embeddable scripting language. Fa
<snap-l> Pyramid is also minimalist Web framework, not so much in its capability as its philosophy. It makes no assertion concerning the back-end database you should use, nor does it foist a particular template system on the developer. (Currently, Pyramid supports two, though Pyramid itself tries to remain agnostic regarding the choice.) If Pyramid has any blemishes, it is the quirky terminology with which its documentation describes the framework.
<snap-l> This article makes no justification for any of their assertions.
<snap-l> it's crap
<brousch> yeah, no msubstance
<snap-l> Where did you see this?
<Wolfger> morning
<brousch> #pocoo, the Flask channel
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/jegm3/pillars_of_python_six_python_web_frameworks/
<snap-l> Vote that sucker down, and vote my comment up. ;)
<snap-l> (please)
<brousch> all i have is a troll reddit account
<brousch> there, i registered just for you
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<Wolfger> voted snap-l down and the article up
<Wolfger> oh wait, I mean, the other way around :-)
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<rick_h_> this is what I wake up to?
<rick_h_> *sigh*
<brousch> just getting you fired up for the day ahead
<rick_h_> https://github.com/Pylons/pyramid_debugtoolbar/commit/3ff51ce8f51d025a68f94c2961c5740cbc3d3167
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> rick_h_: Isn't it great how our assumptions are challenged on a daily basis. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, once I saw that zope had a easier to dev for than pyramid I stopped reading
<snap-l> (was re: pyramid dependencies)
<rick_h_> I just love that commit message
<snap-l> Very straightforward.
<rick_h_> http://xkcd.com/936/ exactly! I've been trying to convince my wife of this for years!
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> Every administrator out there that has ever put a password policy in place needs to see ths
<snap-l> What grinds me is that we're following standards that were put into place when passwords were saved as clear text in character-limited fields
<snap-l> and frankly, that's no longer true, nor the case, nor advisable, nor sane
<rick_h_> and the hash of that long sentence is just the same db store size as 12345
<snap-l> precisely.
<snap-l> http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1577.html
<_stink_> joined late, is there a link that started the password discussion?
<snap-l> http://xkcd.com/936/
<_stink_> oh, hah, xkcd. :)
<rick_h_> boom! https://read.amazon.com/
<snap-l> twitch
<rick_h_> oh man this is awesome
<rick_h_> pin and downloads for offline reading
<snap-l> At least it would give me a chance to read the kindle-only ebooks that are so prevalent
<rick_h_> change font sizes, spacing like a kindle
<brousch> oh awesome, now my chromebook is a kindle
<snap-l> After much attempts to reach you on phone, I deemed it necessary and urgent to contact you via your e-mail address and to notify you finally about your outstanding compensation payment.
<snap-l> During our last annual calculation of your banking activities we have realized that you are eligible to receive a compensation payment of $800,000.00 USD.
<snap-l> Wow, who knew all that direct deposit, debit card usage, and trips to the ATM would pay off so handsomely.
<snap-l> Please take note that you will pay a shipping/handling fee of $150 USD to UPS.
<rick_h_> crap, can't find a search option tough
<rick_h_> I've been dying to be able to load/search my books from the browser
<brousch> snap-l: be careful. some of those are scams
<snap-l> brousch: some?
<brousch> :-D
<snap-l> $150 fee to UPS. Are they shipping my $800K inside an elephant?
<snap-l> And do they not trust the power of wire transfer?
<brousch> it will come to as rolls of pennies
<snap-l> Half-tempted to say that I'll western-union the $150, if he would send me $25 to cover it via paypal
<snap-l> "Nuts, the nearest WEstern Union from me is over 300 miiles away, and I have no money for gas. Wouldyou front me an additional $25 to cover the trip?"
<snap-l> etc., ad nauseum.
<Wolfger> "I don't have paypal. If you sent me $5 to cover the postage and envelope, I'll mail it to you."
<snap-l> I don't want to give out my address.
<Wolfger> then how will UPS deliver the $800k?
<snap-l> Wolfger: You're not a good scam artist. ;)
<Wolfger> darn
<Wolfger> there goes my career planning
<snap-l> Perhaps you can have a much more fulfilled career in agriculture?
<Wolfger> rick_h_: that xkcd ignores the existence of dictionary attacks... (though I'm not sure if that applies so well when the length of the password is unknown)
<snap-l> Wolfger: Actually, it does
<snap-l> You've just increased the rainbow table size significantly.
<Wolfger> and dammit... now that my chromebook is a defacto Kindle, I may just have to start using both my chromebook and Kindle
<Wolfger> :-p
<Wolfger> defeat dictionary attacks by using a different language.... "orrectcay orsehay atterybay aplestay" :-)
 * Wolfger - promoting better passwords and pig latin, all at once.
<Wolfger> also, the extra letters increase security versus brute force
<rick_h_> I've been doing this forever on my ssh keys
<rick_h_> you want to try to brute force it go ahead
<rick_h_> one of the words in the phrase is from a book and you won't find it in any dictionary
<Wolfger> well there you go. Another way around dictionary attacks :-)
<Wolfger> what's the word? ;-)
<rick_h_> toolernator :P
<nullspace> bah you can brute force that
<rick_h_> nullspace: the point is that it's one word in a sentence/phrase
<Wolfger> now if we could just get all sites, OS's, and corp security rules to stop enforcing silly password rules....
<Wolfger> what really irks me is when a site restricts your password to "no more than 8 characters". How does that help anybody?
<nullspace> Wolfger: well they need to start by making it hard to steal hashes
<nullspace> and tell users to no reuse their passwords
<Wolfger> which isn't going to happen
<Wolfger> sensible password policies would enable people to use different passwords in different places, and actually remember them
<Wolfger> until that happens, we're living in a single-point-of-failure world
<Wolfger> we need to make it so that a single hack doesn't expose your entire online existence
<nullspace> bloodsample logins, your DNA sequence is read and salted with your cholesterol level which is stored as an SHA256 hash
<Wolfger> no good, again. Somebody cracks that, they have your password to everything.
<Wolfger> and if your cholesterol level changes, you're in trouble :-p
<Wolfger> something like isthayiswayymayaskwayubuntuwayasswordpay is easy to remember, hard to crack, and unique to one site.
<jrwren> i missed broot farce discussion?
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> cholesterol lvel changes too much.
<jrwren> and dna is too easy to steal
<Wolfger> indeed
<Wolfger> if they get a blood sample, they have your password :-)
<snap-l> Yeah, we need something that isn't likely to change
<snap-l> and isn't likely to get removed from your body without you noticing and or caring
<snap-l> That's why I advocate spinal tap passwords
<jrwren> i think pass phrases are more powerful than bio id.
<jrwren> bio can be fooled. cut off a finger, cut out an eye.
<jrwren> but a passphrase is secure in my brain
<Wolfger> torture!
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> pass phrases are far better than bio for one simple reason: You can change them when they are compromised, and they will not change without the consent of somebody who has access already (as opposed to, say, cholesterol level)
<Wolfger> also, bio id is bad when the hardware malfunctions and you are denied access because it can't scan whatever body part is required.
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> all that said.... I love my fingerprint reader login.
<jrwren> swipe my finger and I don't have to type my long passphrase
<snap-l> Wondering how long it'll be before they have dickID
<Wolfger> which finger do I need to remove? ;-)
<Wolfger> snap-l: I think you'll find a finger reader will work on that appendage as well
<jrwren> yup... that part Is a little scary.
<jrwren> especially with my ssh agent running
<jrwren> and and for a while there I had passwordless sudo setup :)
<brousch> ug. i've already modified an old data export script in java and an autocad drawing macro in VB
<brousch> i need my python
<Wolfger> I'm sure there's a joke there, but I'm not going to touch it...
<snap-l> Wolfger: Go on, touch brousch's python
<brousch> it won't hurt you
<ptenhoopen> Creepy
<snap-l> Can we have fall now?
<snap-l> Seriously loving the breeze over here
<snap-l> Also listening to Mahler's 9th. :)
<snap-l> Symphony No. 9 in D Major; III. Rondo-Burleske: Allegro assai. Sehr trotzig
<rick_h_> yea, open windows during work ftw!
<Wolfger> I wish I could open these windows...
<Wolfger> it's gorgeous outside. I hope the weather stay just like this for the rest of August.
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrkAuwaoFGg&feature=player_embedded
<snap-l> Office 365 Man: https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/office365.jpg?w=f977e754
<rick_h_> Error (403)
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/19ZX/
<snap-l> Also, Ubuntu One is a POS.
<brousch> i tried ubuntuone and ran into many syncing problems
<brousch> dropbox is still the best
<snap-l> JoDee has threatened to make me tea
<rick_h_> that bad?
<rick_h_> can she make me some?
<snap-l> of course, it's not a threat when I wouldn't mind having tea, now is it?
<rick_h_> but right now you're anti-tea allergies are going full force?
<snap-l> Nah, it's just not fall
<snap-l> usually summer is iced tea, not hot tea
<Blazeix> rick_h_: are you going to be at CHC tonight?
<Blazeix> if so, I may pick your brain on message queueing technology
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yep
<Blazeix> cool
<Wolfger> Mmmmm... MQ....
<jrwren> arg... i hate that ssh-keygen has no -h or --help
<Blazeix> it does have a decent manpage
<Blazeix> but it is annoying that it leaps right into key generation when you run it
<Wolfger> when I see something like this, I have an urge to carry it onto an airplane. http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/e9be/
<Blazeix> that's an urge that will most likely do you a disservice in the future.
<Wolfger> You say that now
<Wolfger> wait until you and I are on the same flight as a terrorist, and I dispatch him with my ceramic knife. Then you'll be thankful that I felt like proving airport security was a sham
<jrwren> hell yeah.
<jrwren> but my fists, fingers and a ball point pen can be just as harmful.
<jrwren> so i figure when it comes down to it, i'll ink stab a terrorist plane hijacker.
<jrwren> but wait... its been 10 yrs since the last successful US plane hijacking.
<Wolfger> funny how that happens
<jrwren> patriot act is working ;)
<Wolfger> that's one opinion
<Wolfger> old skyjacking protocol: stay calm, the pilot will get you on the ground, and the authorities will deal with the skyjacker
<Wolfger> post-9/11 skyjacking protocol: Kill them. Kill them now.
<snap-l> I think country music should be illegal for corporate presentations
<Blazeix> if they use country, does that open the floodgates? Could you use metal during your presentations?
<snap-l> Somehow I doubt that
<snap-l> though I'd really love to. ;)
<TeamXlink> I thought our post  9/11 policy was make airport security unconstitutional, shoot every guy that looks like osama, go back too war again because osama isn't dead, imprision random foriengers without reason for years, and hmmmmm
<jrwren> and hold music.
<jrwren> hold music should be MUZAK only.
<snap-l> Hold music should include Chick Corea's entire back-catalogue, along with Weather Report.
<snap-l> Fuck me
<snap-l> now it's Sheryl Crow, mangling Kevin Gilbert's music
<Blazeix> is this just pre-presentation music, or is it actually part of the presentation?
<TeamXlink> When are the DMR laws going too be fixed?
<snap-l> pre-presentation
<TeamXlink> Thanks good too know.
 * TeamXlink 
 * TeamXlink trololololols
<Blazeix> I wouldn't be surprised if the music was just a fellow employee's cruel joke
<jrwren> anyone know of a non-shell command that will echo the return status of a program you run?
<jrwren> like a wrapper that prints $? after running a command.
<snap-l> echo $?
<snap-l> Theres a startling similarity between quarterly earnings calls and coach-game postmortems
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> "get back out there and fight!"
<snap-l> We need to get out there, and move the ball bettern than the other team
<snap-l> I wonder how many football teams are told "you need to do more with less". ;)
<snap-l> Deliver your touchdowns on time and within budget
<TeamXlink> Q: Has anyone ever heard anyhing regarding ADHD and fast paced videogames being related or linked in such a way, or even mentioned in the same sentence without the words are not linked in between?
<snap-l> no
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-11
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/Q1iMkKGtzsGcQ2mqEjRo/
<rick_h_> followed up by: (in short: I need a better general purpose mechanism for handling dynamic domain dependencies like this, without the code itself become organized the same way.  Hmm..)
<rick_h_> me: composition > inheritance, expecially when you get into python and can do things like mixins to get most of inheritence without direct inheritene
<rick_h_> http://www.nongnu.org/autocutsel/
<widox> http://parcellite.sourceforge.net/
<rick_h_> morning party people
<Wolfger> morning. party.
<Wolfger> pure happiness: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1108/leading-off-0808/content.16.html
<Wolfger> Woot. A bug filed in December 2007 and closed in February 2009 due to lack of response to the inevitable "does this bug affect latest version?" was finally fixed upstream in August 2011.
<Wolfger> Huzzah for open source :-p
<brousch> maybe you should've fixed it yourself
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> I don't even know wtf "shaketracker" is, much less have the ability/interest to fix it. But thank you for demonstrating that wonderful FOSS attitude towards bugs.
<brousch> my pleasure
<rick_h_> grrr, not starting out well today.
<rick_h_> after one full meeting, a 1->1 meeting, and gobs of email the damn excel sheet isn't right
<rick_h_> so finally broke down and fixed the whole damn thing
<rick_h_> yay for having to hack/fix excel
<Wolfger> \o/
<brousch> rick_h_: so did the experience convince you to ditch python and go all VBA?
<rick_h_> brousch: I'm not suicidal yet
<snap-l> shaketracker is a MOD making program, iirc
<snap-l> note the operative word, rick_h_, "yet". ;)
<Wolfger> If I took my laptop outside, sat on the ground, and worked the rest of the day out there, would anybody notice? Would anybody care?
<snap-l> I wouldn't concern myself with such matters
<snap-l> in other words, find out. ;)
<snap-l> are you at CTC?
<Wolfger> well of course *you* wouldn't. You're used to being unemployed. XD
<Wolfger> no, I'm at the plant
<snap-l> Wolfger: Too soon. ;)
<Wolfger> sorry
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> at ctc I could just take a "working lunch" out on the patio and stay there forever
<Wolfger> and I wouldn't even have to sit on the ground
<rick_h_> man I hate IE...it won't even run my JS unit tests. Just times out and hangs yay for being too damn slow. Though this is IE8 I suppose
<Wolfger> One thing O'Reilly deal of the day does for me... reminds me how many things are out there that I haven't got a clue about.
<snap-l> Wolfger: What's the DoD today?
<Wolfger> snap-l: Practical JIRA Plugins
<snap-l> JIRA is a ticketing system from Atlassian
<snap-l> it's written in Java
<snap-l> and I only know that because our engineers at Geeknet used it
<jrwren> if anyone is interested in PHP adn sysadmin job in Saline: http://www.quantumsignal.com/about_qs/career/
<snap-l> Are we all pretty much burned out on PHP now?
<snap-l> I mean, besides using Wordpress and Drupal. ;)
<brousch> who uses drupal?
<snap-l> A few people use Drupal
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/08/11/pyohio-so-much-awesome-in-so-little-time/
<snap-l> Apparently I'm a blogging machine today.
<snap-l> (or a blabbermouth. ;) )
<brousch> where'd you go to dinner?
<snap-l> Sage
<snap-l> An American Bistro. ;)
<snap-l> It was the result of looking on Google Places for somewhere to eat
<snap-l> and we walked there. ;)
<snap-l> The theme of the weekend was walking. ;)
<brousch> i ate at the alumni club puf last year
<brousch> it wasn't bad
<brousch> pub
<snap-l> Oh yeah?
<snap-l> Cool
<brousch> right near the end of whatever street the blackwell is on
<rick_h_> can anyone hit http://build.bmark.us ?
<_stink_> spinning here
<rick_h_> booo, ok home desktop must have gone off or something then. Thanks
<rick_h_> was trying to sneak fix that pgsql test failure at work, but now I can't see it pass
<snap-l> Yeah, it's not responding
<_stink_> :/
<rick_h_> oh well
<snap-l> Not sure why, but banshee tends to hang when I close it and doesn't come back
<snap-l> I'll notice my display gets sluggish, and note that Banshee is taking up 100% without actually running
<rick_h_> http://blog.eset.com/2011/05/17/obfuscated-javascript-oh-what-a-tangled-web
<rick_h_> Blazeix widox ^
<snap-l> I'm firmly in the camp that if you obfuscate because you think someone will steal your code, you're fucking stupid.
<snap-l> and if you're obfuscating because of some perceived speed-up, you'd better have benchmarks to back it up, or you're stupid
<rick_h_> yea, but getting blocked as malicious/virus because you pack js/
<rick_h_> not something I'd thought about running into
<snap-l> I hated that shit when it first reared it's ugly head in the Java world.
<rick_h_> jquery, google js library, all the .min files are packed
<rick_h_> just following the example of smarter people for some
<snap-l> That makes sense, though because they're running a CDN with thousands upon thousands of requests
<snap-l> every little bit helps
<rick_h_> right, but I can see someone new just following the lead
<snap-l> but if you're running a site that has a handful of requests per second, it's not going to help much
<rick_h_> without knowing why "it makes it faster"
<snap-l> again, stupid. ;)
<rick_h_> then again pagespeed apache module does that kind of stuff
<rick_h_> caches compressed/packed versions of your js file
<rick_h_> anyway, interesting
<snap-l> It's the same problem over and over again
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> delivering content to clients depends on trust, and it's unfortunately very easy to fake certain levels of trust
<snap-l> if something goes rogue on your system, cleartext or not, you're screwed. ;)
<snap-l> and obfuscation is yet again another arrow in the quver of malware.
<snap-l> I rue the day when someone hacks jquery and uploads some rogue, compressed .js
<snap-l>  Can anyone parse what the hell this is trying to say? http://paste.mitechie.com/show/06BzCZkyfBPnputd0Bhe/
<snap-l> Gee, I'll fill out Refund_Form.exe right away
<Wolfger> snap-l: Python is a replacement for FORTRAN?
<Wolfger> snap-l: also, let me fix something for you.... s/turned into a diaspora/turned into joindiaspora.com/  :-D
<snap-l> Wolfger: har har
<snap-l> Wolfger: Python has awesome numerical libraries
<snap-l> scipy and numpy are reason enough to ditch FORTRAN if you are still using it. ;)
<Wolfger> Craig Maloney, blogging machine.
<snap-l> yeah, I'm a blabbermouth today.
<rick_h_> hey, am I back?
<rick_h_> yay!
<snap-l> quiveray
<snap-l> Fuckin' hell.
<rick_h_> uh what?
<snap-l> NEver mind
<Wolfger> I think I see a pattern here...
<Wolfger> Programmers StackExchange has a lot of "questions" closed for basically being lame
<Wolfger> They also have a lot of "questions" migrated from Stack Overflow
<Wolfger> StackOverflow only has quality questions
<Wolfger> Programmers == StackOverflow's recycle bin
<snap-l> Wolfger: Gee, you figure? :)
<nullspace> not sure why most questions can't be answered by jfgi
<nullspace> and then testing out some guess until it works
<nullspace> then again it's better than expert exchange
<Wolfger> snap-l: Yeah, I know, I'm slow in that realization
<Wolfger> I was hypnotized by the trollishness of Programmers
<Wolfger> I mean, some of that stuff is genuinely funny (though not intended as such)
<nullspace> Wolfger: it can't be as funny as the using regex to parse html
<Wolfger> nullspace: hey now
<Wolfger> my single-purpose perl scripts work just fine
<snap-l> I think most questions over at programmers.se can be answered thusly:
<snap-l> "Stop procrastinating, put your big-boy pants on, and get back to work"
<Wolfger> <headdesk> Chrysler tows (*sic*) the line. </headdesk> http://blog.chryslerllc.com/entry/1503/chrysler_group_working_with_suppliers_to_tow_the_line_on_vehicle_pricing
<snap-l> Hurry Journaleasm
<Wolfger> I am so embarrassed to work for a company who can't hire a PR guy who knows English idioms
<Wolfger> my comment will probably be moderated out of existence.
<snap-l> headline was corrected, but the link remains the same.
<snap-l> I also love that none of the images are displayable.
<snap-l> http://blog.chryslerllc.com/entry/1503/images/images/masthead_chrysler_logo.gif
<snap-l> who do they pay for PR, because they need to get their shit together.
<snap-l> http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?id=1503&p=entry Apparently this is the URL now.
<nullspace> snap-l: well now we know how they are paying for higher productions costs, PR and marketing is taking a hit
<krondor> nullspace:  marketing took a huge hit, Chrysler dropped BBDO after like a 75 year relationship for marketing.  I think it's in house now.
<krondor> we hired about half of BBDOs fall out IT workers from MI.  I think Chrysler marketing did do a good job with the super bowl though really...
<jrwren> very good job
<snap-l> Yeah, the superbowl marketing was genius
<snap-l> I think their marketing is over in italy, now.
<snap-l> And this is why copyright needs standardization: All Naxos Historical, Naxos Classical Archives, Naxos Jazz, Folk and Rock Legends and Naxos Nostalgia titles are not available in the United States and some titles may not be available in Australia and Singapore because these countries have copyright laws that provide or may provide for terms of protection for sound recordings that differ from the rest of the world.
<snap-l> All because copyrighted works before 1972 are uncertain of their status
<_stink_> don't worry, the RIAA is working on that for you
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<snap-l> pretty soon I won't be able to listen to music at all without a writ promising that I won't hear it
<jrwren> of coruse you will... you will just be violating someones (C) right.
<jrwren> its OK.
<jrwren> the first step is acknowledging that that they shouldn't have those rights.
<snap-l> "Your associated account on Role-playing Games has passed 200 reputation: +100 reputation"
<snap-l> I feel... um...
<snap-l> <- nerd
<snap-l> Man, having someone accept your answer is like a reputation goldmine.
<brousch> dork
<_stink_> dweeb
<brousch> good one
<_stink_> highfive
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-12
<Blazeix> I know I'm late to the javascript minification article party, but is there any instance of an AV vendor flagging JS because it's minified?
<Blazeix> "As with compression in other contexts, compressing the same object twice or more does not make sense"
<Blazeix> that seems to point to the author not understanding js minification at all
<rick_h_> yea, part was him misunderstanding
<rick_h_> but sounds like not minification, but packing would get it flagged
<Blazeix> ok, I'd agree with obfuscators being stupid
<Blazeix> but I imagine there aren't very many people that obfuscate/pack in order to reduce filesize.
<rick_h_> well, closure compiler, yui compressor, etc
<rick_h_> if you crank the settings up on there I wonder if they'd count/hit this
<rick_h_> I mean, I've never run into it, but crazy to think that a user somewhere with some AV might block my site's JS because it's been cranked through yui compressor at full titlt
<rick_h_> tilt*
<Blazeix> hm, I'd consider closure compiler and yui compressor to be in the same basic family as jsmin - minifiers
<Blazeix> though I suppose the distinction can be blurred
<Blazeix> I guess I'll keep doing it until I hear about a problem with it; I imagine it'd be fairly big news.
<rick_h_> yea, same here
<rick_h_> it was more of a *hmm, hadn't thought of that* vs *OMG stop what you're doing!*
<Blazeix> my little brother is installing natty - we'll see how this goes
<Blazeix> are there any tricks to help him configure it? I remember it being fairly unconfigurable.
<jrwren> snap-l: Keith Jarrett - Sun Bear Concerts
<snap-l> Blazeix: There's a few out there.
<snap-l> http://askubuntu.com/questions/29553/how-can-i-configure-unity
<snap-l> jrwren: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Jarrett#Idiosyncrasies
<snap-l> I've tried listening to his music, but man, that hurrrrr really doesn't work for me
<jrwren> haha.
<jrwren> i sometimes like it.
<jrwren> like one of his live at the bluenote sessions is great.
<jrwren> oh man... he sounds nutty.
<jrwren> but he is still an amazing musician
<snap-l> Yeah, he's a complete nutter.
<rick_h_> TGIF!!!!!
<Wolfger> it's Friday?
<Wolfger> woot
<rick_h_> better be or I'm going to have a fit
<brousch> hm, the shop has been cut back to 32 hour weeks. might be time to dust off the old resume again
<brousch> there are actually a lot of jobs in GR, but essentially none of them are python
<rick_h_> GR always seems a .net shop to me for some reason
<rick_h_> are you hourly though?
<rick_h_> I'd assumed you'd be salary
<brousch> i am
<brousch> we're still under a 10% salary reduction started in 2008
<rick_h_> oh, ouch
<brousch> still down 2 office people from layoffs at that time
<brousch> GR is .net and ruby
<brousch> then java
<brousch> places like mutually human and atomic object are booming, busy, and hiring, but they're ruby
<snap-l> brousch: That sucks
<snap-l> re the hour reduction / salary cuts
<ptenhoopen> brousch:  Sorry to hear about the cutbacks.  We were hit hard the last few years.
<brousch> well the initial cutbacks are what got me out of the basement to socialize, so it's not all bad
<Wolfger> you used to work in the basement?
<Wolfger> did you get your red Swingline back, too? ;-)
<brousch> i actually do have a red swingline, though it's dark red, not bright red
<brousch> nice stapler
<snap-l> I have a red swingline on my desk
<snap-l> has a "Java Powered" sticker on it
<Wolfger> you have to pour coffee on your stapler?
<Wolfger> I mean, that's silly... but it makes more sense than you using Java intentionally. ;-)
<snap-l> one sec, and I will share all
<snap-l> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/IMG_0410.JPG
<snap-l> Wolfger: Is dropbox blocked?
<Wolfger> speaking of Java Powered.... O'R's DotD :-)
<Wolfger> snap-l: Dropbox is not blocked \o/
<Wolfger> Ah, yes... now I remember why I pretty much stopped reading Slashdot: http://science.slashdot.org/story/11/08/12/0359230/Researchers-Make-Graphene-From-Girl-Scout-Cookies
<Wolfger> But the poll is made for rick_h_ I think ;-) http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl
<rick_h_> http://uploads.mitechie.com/lines_of_code.png
<rick_h_> according to gitstats run on bookie which I was hacking on last night
<rick_h_> oh, but I guess that should include work code as well...hmmm
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> so... the bottom option, as I suspected
<rick_h_> naw, I think it's a bit crazy to have 1000s of lines of code in a 24 time period
<rick_h_> though I do have a test for the new code in bookie last night and that counts as more LoC I'm sure
<rick_h_> if you count lines of docs I might hit the "at least 500 less than 1000" I'd bet
<Wolfger> I still can't believe anybody uses LoC as a metric
<rick_h_> yea, exactly
<Wolfger> kinda rewards inefficient people for being inefficient
<Wolfger> "oh, I won't create a reusable object, I'll c&p this code 10 times. Wow am I ever productive!"
<jrwren> what is wrong with that?
<rick_h_> I mean, any good dev knows using keyboard shortcuts is the greatest of ideals to hold to
<rick_h_> ctrl-c, ctrl-v
<Wolfger> what is wrong with c&p, or what is wrong with considering c&p more productive based on some arbitrary metric?
<jrwren> both
<jrwren> but i can't keep trolling.
<jrwren> :)
<Wolfger> :-)
<jrwren> cuz you said metric
<rick_h_> I tried to help jrwren :P
<Wolfger> Hey, I use c&p a lot
<Wolfger> but I'm not a very good coder
<rick_h_> lol http://chris-lamb.co.uk/2011/08/12/careful-what-you-wish-for/
<rick_h_> that's awesome on a ton of levels, man
<Wolfger> :-p
<Wolfger> that bass-ackwards
<Wolfger> instead of combining the best parts of both systems, they're taking the worst
<Wolfger> "Here! It's apt, but it's slow!"
<Wolfger> sorry. I'm humor deficient this morning.
 * Wolfger goes to drink more coffee
<snap-l> Wolfger: Would you prefer to read that on reddit? "HEy guys, I was browsing the net for porn when I saw that scientists had made graphene from girl scout cookies. I abouot dropped my penis."
<jrwren> rick_h_: ZOPMG LOL!!!
<jrwren> if I had liquid in my mouth I'd ahve spit .
<jrwren> apt-gentoo LOLZ
<rick_h_> jrwren: ok glad someone else appreciates it as much as I do
<rick_h_> I was worried for a minute
<jrwren> i esp love the "slowly scroleld"
<snap-l> Oh that is awesome.
<jrwren> hahahaha
<snap-l> I must have it
<jrwren> i'm tempted by it too snap-l
<jrwren> are you going to install it?
<jrwren> this is the funniest thing since funrolloops
<jrwren> i'm looking at you jcastro
<rick_h_> you know, a designer did say that you need to make it appear that the ssystem "did work" even if it takes ms to do an operation
<Wolfger> rick_h_: no need to worry. It was amusing. I just had a cup of grumpy this morning.
<snap-l> Well, apparently the latest version of Google Chrome from the beta channel has problems
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<snap-l> My sync foo isn't working
<rick_h_> hmm, latest changes went all encrypted with all sync data
<jrwren> sync my cookies too damnit!
<jrwren> FF sync win
<Wolfger> I'm thinking apt-gentoo has a future in Hollywood....
<rick_h_> jrwren: sync my extension too! FF sync fail
<jrwren> true
<Wolfger> "we want to show him updating his computer. That's what it really looks like? Can you do something to slow it down and make it more verbose?"
<snap-l> Make it green screen
<Wolfger> snap-l: I think Hollywood finally learned a few years ago that monitors aren't green anymore
<ptenhoopen> Cool shirt - http://www.teefury.com
<Wolfger> Yeah. I like some of the side art more, though.
<nullspace> Wolfger: I love grumpy-Os it's my favorite
<brousch> ug, feeling old. i've moved into the 35-49 age bracket in a survey
<_stink_> take a salt tablet
<snap-l> brousch: Now your opinion no longer matters
<brousch> i'm practically lumped in with my parents now
<snap-l> 18-34 <- taste makers
<snap-l> 35-49 <- Some taste
<snap-l> 49-65 <- Loosing taste
<snap-l> 65+ <- Needs salt.
<jrwren> brousch: you are old
<Wolfger> snap-l: you are too old to believe that
<Wolfger> he is just entering the age bracket at which lawmakers start caring about his opinion
<Wolfger> In fact, your entire age bracket scenario is opposite :-)
<snap-l> Wolfger: Bullshit. ;)
<snap-l> You're assuming they care at all about our opinion
<Wolfger> touche
<nullspace> hey if you get voted in to office for being a rampant douche` can you really expect them once in office to not be a rampant douche`
<rick_h_> dammit, finally get to go see a movie and nothing good out
<rick_h_> damn you hollywood!
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh c'mon, there's plenty of movies out.
<snap-l> Like, um...
<rick_h_> the smurfs! how did I miss the smurfs!
<snap-l> Of course! The sequel to Avatar
<rick_h_> "on the other side of the universe...in a small small place...
<Wolfger> snap-l--
<snap-l> Well, this is cool. Firefox is crashing
<snap-l> and I can't start it back up
<snap-l> Apparently today is the day of weird crashes
<snap-l> on the plus side, my car is fixed.
<snap-l> so, woo hoo!
<snap-l> if we're really lucky, the check from progressive will be in the mailbox today.
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/12/friday-time-waster-play-dos-games-in-your-chrome-browser/
<Wolfger> awesome
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-dqtfmIs2I
<snap-l> Picked up the car. Woo hoo!
<Wolfger> \o/
<rick_h_> snap-l: a man with wheels yay
<snap-l> Yeah, it's used-car clean too
<rick_h_> yea, I love when I take my car in for big work, always do a light detail on it for me :)
<snap-l> they didn't clean the cupholders, though
<snap-l> and they managed to lose the plastic cover that hangs out on the engine
<snap-l> no big deal, but will take it back over there to get it replaced.
<Wolfger> I think somebody posted this Programmers question to Slashdot by mistake... http://ask.slashdot.org/story/11/08/12/1433239/Ask-Slashdot-Am-I-Too-Old-To-Learn-New-Programming-Languages
<snap-l> *sigh*
<snap-l> If you have to ask...
<rick_h_> heh, if you want to watch my boy get stabbed at the dr watch the news monday night
<snap-l> Oh joy
<snap-l> Which station?
<rick_h_> wdiv?
<rick_h_> not sure what local that is
<rick_h_> but that video of her and getting Michael his immunizations is going to air during the 11pm news there I guess
<snap-l> Also, set cursorline is awesome.
<snap-l> Not sure I'd' have it as default, but it does come in handy.
<rick_h_> be aware it's a big cause of laggyness
<rick_h_> I used to use it all the time, but it's a perf hit
<snap-l> Yeah, but it's good for what I need it for
<rick_h_> cool just an fyi
<snap-l> which is editing a list of items for my GTD.
<rick_h_> there's lots of people on the list and such crying that ruby code highlight is slow, or other things
<rick_h_> usually turns out to be cursorline
<snap-l> Yeah, if you're on a slow connection, any line-draw is going to be a drag.
<rick_h_> it doesn't redraw the line though, vim works by whole screen
<rick_h_> something like that, I read about it when I was having issues with it
<snap-l> if they're using curses, it'll be a pain regardless.
<rick_h_> yea, anyway, big drag, but pretty and cool
<snap-l> curses tries to be efficient, but slow connections are still slow.
<rick_h_> http://www.vendorclientvideo.com/ is kind of funny
<rick_h_> Wolfger: should show that to his chrysler bosses :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: That video is awesome.
<jjesse> that made me laugh
<jjesse> its soooo true
<krondor> funny but a bit one sided, we need clientvendorvideo.com I think.  Show the cook buying that steak from outback and reselling it after adding some oregano.  Charging maintenance on the meal too...
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-13
<TeamXlink> grrrrrr
<TeamXlink> When the basement door is left open, and the dogs come down here, and find an animal, like a bat or a rat/mouse I wish they would at least eat it fully like they do with the stuff they find in the yard.
<TeamXlink> Instead of leaving it next too my dedicated, and then me finding it with my hand when trying to plug in a cord.
<_stink_> yum.
<snap-l> evening
<jjesse> yes it is
<rick_h_> finally, harry potter is done and over
<rick_h_> seen my second movie this year, and never have to go to one of those again
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> you get dragged to them?
<TeamXlink> [02:17:55] <TeamXlink> Whats the difference from pirating a game from the internet
<TeamXlink> [02:18:02] <TeamXlink> And stealing it from the store?
<TeamXlink> [02:18:08] <TeamXlink> If you get caught pirating
<TeamXlink> [02:18:19] <TeamXlink> Its like $5000 and 10 years or something
<TeamXlink> [02:18:33] <TeamXlink> If you get caught stealing, its a misdeanmenor on first offense I htink.
<TeamXlink> Thoughts?
<TeamXlink> Opinions?
<brousch> remember when we talked about the ultralocal weather rain prediction app? i could really use that today
<TeamXlink> Q:
<TeamXlink> How far could you get based on the argument, by signing a document that is mandatory for attending a *public school*, you are signing your constitiutonsl freedoms away?
<snap-l> Good afternoon
<TeamXlink> Assuming the student is 18, (Or else rights are really vague)
<snap-l> TeamXlink: Are you looking to go into law?
<TeamXlink> No, my grades don't allow it.
<snap-l> Because those are some pretty lawyerly questions. ;)
<TeamXlink> But legalities, interest me very much.
<snap-l> So, keep trying
<TeamXlink> What do you mean?
<snap-l> You know the old addage: what do you call a medical student that graduates at the bottom of his / her class?
<snap-l> A: Doctor.
<TeamXlink> hmmmm
<TeamXlink> Yes, true.
<TeamXlink> My gpa is like 2.2, I think and I'm going too be a junior.
<TeamXlink> It might be lower actually
<TeamXlink> That was before last tri last year.
<TeamXlink> I was just looking over the school hand book from last school year, too actually look more into what they were allowed too do.
<TeamXlink> And what we weren't allowed too do.
<TeamXlink> It will however be very different with this years stuff I expect.
<TeamXlink> snap-I, another thing abut being a lawyer, where your degree is from matters a lot from what I've heard.
 * TeamXlink is planning on going into GRCC unless a scholarship arrises.
<snap-l> Are you in high school or college?
<TeamXlink> High school
<snap-l> high school GPA doesn't mean diddly squit
<TeamXlink> I thought it did?
<TeamXlink> When applying for college?
<snap-l> Just get your grades up in CC, and university, and get your bachelors
<snap-l> little secret: high scholl GPA means shit
<TeamXlink> Oh.
<TeamXlink> :D
<snap-l> It's just a nice little even cut-off for admissions
<TeamXlink> snap-I has just opened the doors of possibility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<snap-l> Most community colleges will take whatever comes throught he door
<snap-l> so don't be too hard on yourself
<snap-l> just apply yourself as best you can
<TeamXlink> :D
<snap-l> study, and learn the process of learning
 * TeamXlink might now go into Computer Science *and* legalstuff/politician.
 * TeamXlink can't be a politician actually, he lacks good leadership capabilites.
<snap-l> TeamXlink: Bullshit
<TeamXlink> What do you mean?
<snap-l> I mean bullshit.
<TeamXlink> In regards too what?
<snap-l> Not every "great leader" starts out as a great leader
<snap-l> it takes experience
<TeamXlink> hmmmmm
<TeamXlink> Yes that is true.
 * TeamXlink supports too many currently illegal things though as well.
<snap-l> Would you quit worrying and just do it? :)
<TeamXlink> lol
<TeamXlink> snap-l, I'll try.
<snap-l> do
<snap-l> or do not
<snap-l> there is no try
<snap-l> (Yes, I'm bustin' out the Yoda)
<TeamXlink> snap-l
<TeamXlink> But
<TeamXlink> Really, how far do you think:
<TeamXlink> How far could you get based on the argument, by signing a document that is mandatory for attending a *public school*, you are signing your constitiutonsl freedoms away?
<TeamXlink> Assuming the student is 18, (Or else rights are really vague)
<snap-l> TeamXlink: I have no clue
<snap-l> I'm not familiar with constitutional law
<snap-l> since it's a public institution, my feeling is that you still have the freedoms afforded by the constitution
<TeamXlink> Thats what I thought.
<snap-l> That said, I'm concerned by what I've seen lately with students being treated essentially as wards of the state.
<TeamXlink> snap-l, what do you mean?
<snap-l> I've seen stories where students have gotten in trouble for stuff they've posted on Facebook and other extracurricular activities.
<snap-l> and I think that's crap
<TeamXlink> Yeah, lol
<TeamXlink> I found this itneresting:
<TeamXlink> Its in the Internet and Computer use policy
<TeamXlink> As of last years
<TeamXlink> This years it might and will be different I think.
<TeamXlink> But this is what it says:
<TeamXlink> KPS may seearch and seize its resources at any time for any reason whatsoever.
<TeamXlink> It may conduct on-site, or remote, physical and electronic searches and audits of computers, softwares, electronics/digital or printed files, Internet accounts, storage systems and computer media.
<snap-l> Is this for a school-provided computer?
<TeamXlink> KPS reserves the right too monitor resource use and Internet access, to establish and use electronic footprint capabilities, and to do so with or without the user's prior knowledge or consent.
<TeamXlink> ./end typing
<TeamXlink> snap-l no its for their network
<TeamXlink> But this part:
<TeamXlink> It may conduct on-site, or remote, physical and electronic searches and audits of computers, softwares, electronics/digital or printed files, Internet accounts, storage systems and computer media.
<TeamXlink> So like there essentially key logging too me.
<TeamXlink> Because of this:
<TeamXlink> Internet accounts,
<TeamXlink> It may conduct on-site, or remote, physical and electronic searches and audits
<TeamXlink> It seems too give them the right too access account I login to when connected too their network.
<TeamXlink> *to access any account
<snap-l> Are you connecting to their network with your computer?
<TeamXlink> Yeah at times.
<TeamXlink> But mostly theirs
<TeamXlink> But this is in their internet and computer use policy
<snap-l> you should know as a budding lawyer that no agreement is 100% binding unless tested in court
<snap-l> so, check for precident.
<snap-l> where has this been tried in court, and how much has withstood the scrutiny of a judge.
<snap-l> the opinion of some computer jocks means diddly-squit.
<TeamXlink> snap-l I am far from a budding lawyer, lol!
<TeamXlink> I'm way below that
<TeamXlink> More of some kid
<TeamXlink> Who is itnerested in legal things and such
<snap-l> TeamXlink: don't sell yourself short.
<snap-l> if it's something you're interested in, pursue it.
<TeamXlink> hmmmm
<TeamXlink> Alright, lol
 * TeamXlink is going too check precident
<TeamXlink> Because without it it has no legal value!
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Rosa
<snap-l> TeamXlink: precisely.
 * snap-l hopes that #! works well as a squeezebox slave
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-14
<rick_h_> boom, there goes power
<rick_h_> thank you battery backup!
<rick_h_> and laptops with extended battery power
<rick_h_droid> Crap, and no power sucks
<jrwren> TeamXlink: you (or students) do not have any first ammendment rights when using someone else's network. youd 'lose the argument in court VERY quickly
<TeamXlink> Oh.
<TeamXlink> Wait, what argument?
<TeamXlink> The comments about the internet usage policy and what not
<TeamXlink> Weren't related too the questions:
<TeamXlink> [16:50:18] <TeamXlink> How far could you get based on the argument, by signing a document that is mandatory for attending a *public school*, you are signing your constitiutonsl freedoms away?
<TeamXlink> [16:50:24] <TeamXlink> Assuming the student is 18, (Or else rights are really vague)
<TeamXlink> [16:52:39] <snap-l> TeamXlink: I have no clue
<jrwren> oh, what are you signing then?
<TeamXlink> Oh, hmmmm
<TeamXlink> hold on
<TeamXlink> Let me browse my logs again.
<TeamXlink> I can't find the part of the log where I was talking about the internet usage policy.
<TeamXlink> I think it might have been not saved when I unplugged my pc.
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Off to do the grocery shopping.
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: ping
<devinheitmueller> hello
<devinheitmueller> rick_h_: pong
<rick_h_> hey, need a favor, I picked up an HD antenna, but I need to help find a good place for it in the house
<rick_h_> I'm thinking of getting a usb tv tuner for the laptop
<rick_h_> and I can test it up stairs/down, etc
<rick_h_> suggestions for one that should work ok?
<devinheitmueller> You interested in digital or analog support?
<rick_h_> running arch linux on 3.0
<rick_h_> I want to test if I can get ota HD for the tv
<rick_h_> so digital
<devinheitmueller> The HVR-950q is pretty good for that.
<devinheitmueller> ... and it's well supported in 3.0
<devinheitmueller> I don't know about Arch, but Ubuntu ships with the firmware.
<rick_h_> ok cool
<devinheitmueller> (if not, you can download it from kernellabs)
<rick_h_> and any boostrapping of the software side I'll need to scan/test channels?
<devinheitmueller> No, just need to install the firmware, and install whatever packages provides "scan"
<devinheitmueller> (typically /usr/bin/scan)
<rick_h_> ok
<devinheitmueller> This wiki article explains the process pretty well, although nothing there is specific to the 950q:  http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Talk:Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-950Q
<rick_h_> yea, I figured step 1 was working hardware and then most software should work regardless
<devinheitmueller> Correct.  Essentially all drivers implement a common interface which is used by applications such as Kaffeine, tvtime, and MythTV.
<devinheitmueller> On second thought, this article is probably a bit better:  http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Talk:OnAir_USB_HDTV_Creator
<rick_h_> awesome
<devinheitmueller> (use ^ article instead of the 950q article I referenced earlier)
<rick_h_> you back in town?
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, got back in Wednesday night (but too late for CHC)
<rick_h_> ah, cool. Well I'll bring the gear to CHC and if I get stuck I'll bug you :)
<rick_h_> thanks for the guidance on it
<devinheitmueller> no problem.
<devinheitmueller> Your "out of the box" experience should be pretty good as long as you have the firmware installed
<devinheitmueller> (if not, you will see an error along the lines of "xc5000-1.4 firmware not found" in the dmesg log.
<rick_h_> ivtv-utils is the only package that references hauppuage, so installed that just in case
<devinheitmueller> Most packages won't reference a specific vendor.
<rick_h_> k
<devinheitmueller> ivtv-utils though is a good package to have if you're going to do any work related to analog, since it contains the "v4l2-ctl" tool that lets you query the device.
<rick_h_> gotcha, cool
<devinheitmueller> You probably need a package along the lines of "dvb-utils" (or something named along those lines)
<rick_h_> libdvbpsi linuxtv-dvb-apps me-tv
<rick_h_> come up with a dvb search
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, probably linuxtv-dvb-apps you want.
<devinheitmueller> me-tv is a tv watching application, and libdvbpsi is a library.
<rick_h_> snap-l: ping
<snap-l> rick_h_: poing
<rick_h_> hey, so thinking of checkout out this caribou with the meeting room
<rick_h_> how was it?
<rick_h_> any kind of board/anything in there?
<snap-l> It was pretty nice.
<snap-l> There's a board, a TV, and a round table in there
<rick_h_> hmmm, cool.
<snap-l> Costs $25 in a gift card, which you can use for coffee, or anything in the store
<rick_h_> did you check if there was a meeting cost or anything with it?
<rick_h_> ah, ok cool
<snap-l> so, not free, but definitely amortizable.
<snap-l> rick_h_: You got power back, I'm assuming. :)
<rick_h_> yea, and gives me some thinking of the whole idea of something more meeting like sometimes
<rick_h_> heh yea
<rick_h_> around 3am
<rick_h_> so out for about 7:30-3am
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, not sure if it would work for CHC, but I'm keepingit in the back of my brain for jams, MUG-like meetings, etc.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ugh. Glad it's back though
<rick_h_> why not for CHC?
<snap-l> well, since we've been there for a while....
<snap-l> But yeah, if they're full, or something like that
<rick_h_> well, I was thinking if it worked out just might make the migration
<rick_h_> to have promised space, the ability to do some more 'class-like' things
<snap-l> Yeah, that might be neat.
<rick_h_> get my hands on a projector and would be pretty cool, start up something east side python meeting or something
<rick_h_> I've always thought of doing something like the web dev meeting or python group out here
<rick_h_> maybe I'll head down in a bit then and check it out. Work from there for a bit
<snap-l> lmk if you do. Wouldn't mind meeting up
<rick_h_> k, will check with the wife here in a sec.
<rick_h_> thanks for the heads up, got the gears going lol
<snap-l> np
<rick_h_> cool, ok going to pack up and head down
<rick_h_> snap-l: ^^ so if you're free meet you down there, if not I'll hang out and chat with them down there
<snap-l> Sure. Are you doing work there, or just bopping in / bopping out/
<snap-l> ?
<snap-l> rick_h_: ^^
<rick_h_> snap-l: going to hang out fora few
<rick_h_> taking some time for her to get the schedule straight and have time to kill until dinner
<rick_h_> snap-l _stink_ Blazeix waldo323_ widox devinheitmueller if CHC was moved to here would you stop coming? http://goo.gl/yCQqt
<devinheitmueller> rick_h_:  probably not.  It's only a couple miles further than I go anyway.
<devinheitmueller> (and I'm only here for another four weeks anyway)
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: cool, thanks
<rick_h_> won't be this week, butmight start week after, 24th or whatever
<rick_h_> they have a meeting room I can get I'm working on trying to get for a while out
<devinheitmueller> Nice.
<rick_h_> yea, think it's worththe slight extra distance
<snap-l> WEll there goes my thoughts of ever walking to CHC. ;)
<Blazeix> rick_h_: nope, I'd still go.
<rick_h_> Blazeix: awesome, thanks
<devinheitmueller> rick_h_: are you there now?
<snap-l> Yeah, we're here now
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: yea, checked it out today
<rick_h_> working on getting it reserved
<devinheitmueller> I need some coffee.  Will swing by for a few minutes.
<rick_h_> cool
<widox> rick_h_: um, I'd still go
<widox> its about a 5min diff for me
<rick_h_> widox: awesome
<widox> like how the street view is from dream cruise time
<rick_h_> oh yea? hah
<widox> tons of 9ld cards
<widox> how many people can you get in the room?
<rick_h_> widox: we could probably get up to 18ish if we did some org
<rick_h_> by default it's 10 I think
<rick_h_> there are two big tables put side v side
<rick_h_> plenty of power, a whiteboard with markers
<rick_h_> honestly, htinkig long term we might be able to do some python/webdev group meetings type material here
<rick_h_> there's room to get double digit people in fora talk
<rick_h_> but we'll see
<widox> sweet
<snap-l> Good afternoon.
<brousch1> geekers
<brousch1> i'm working with someone on a python project, his first. he rejected bitbucket because he didn't like the privacy policy, so i emailed the file back to him with my changes. he disregarded them all and made a bunch of changes
<brousch1> his major changes were to add comments, remove argparse in favor of self-parsed arguments, and add () in each if statement and print statement
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> awesome
<snap-l> brousch1: Why are you working with this person?
<brousch1> side project
<brousch1> he wanted to do the tricky part
<brousch1> interesting. i didn't think print() worked in python 2.5
<brousch1> he's a smart kid. i just need to slap him with the pep8 snake a little more
<rick_h_> brousch1: yea, print() has worked for a while
<rick_h_> just not mandatory like it is in 3.x
<rick_h_> and sucky with the whole bitbucket/etc crap
<TeamXlink> Does anyone know what time hungry howies or little ceasers closes on sunday?
<TeamXlink> Are they closed do you think?
<brousch1> Why would you want to eat greasy cardboard topped with vomit?
<rick_h_> I'd guess you'd have to call/look them up online
<brousch1> papa johns is the best chain pizza. get it extra sauce and well done
<brousch1> their online ordering r0x
<snap-l> prefer Jets, personlly
<TeamXlink> ./me prefers non chain pizza......................
<TeamXlink> ./me prefers pizza from GR Pizza or Cherery Valley Pizzeria.
<TeamXlink> ./me can't get that pizza anymore.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-05
<snap-l>  Hello there
<snap-l> Who all is here?
<rick_h> party
<rick_h> oh right, meeting eh?
<snap-l> Yeppers
<waldo323> hi
<waldo323> good evening
<snap-l> Good Evening
<snap-l> Anyone else on the line?
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/518/detail/
<snap-l> Agenda is here
<snap-l> Going to wait a few minutes, and then get started
<snap-l> OK, let's get started.
<snap-l> First up, welcome to the August 2013 meeting for the Ubuntu MI Loco
<snap-l> Glad you're all here. ;)
<snap-l> First order of business is Ohio Linuxfest
<snap-l> Who all is going?
<waldo323> part of me will be there in spirit
<rick_h> nope
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not going to be able to make it either
<snap-l> The only person I know who is going is jcastro
<snap-l> So perhaps our involvement will be less "official". :)
<snap-l> Anywho, it's on the radar and coming up in case someone can help out with things
<snap-l> but from the sound of it it's not going to be well attended by us.
<snap-l> Ah well
<snap-l> If someone wants to do something and organize it, there's still some time to get something together
<snap-l> so don't let that disuade you. :)
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> Anywho, moving on
<snap-l> Unfortunately it turns out just about everything overlaps this year
<snap-l> and much as maker Faire and PyOhio overlapped, so too does Ohio Linuxfest and Ubuntu Global Jam S-Cycle
<snap-l> I'm thinking because it overlaps OLF, we should do something online again
<snap-l> Ie: Participate when you can over the weekend
<snap-l> That way folks who go to OLF can still participate
<snap-l> and those who are busy with other things that weekend can also participate during the weekend.
<waldo323> what are the suggested ways to participate?
<snap-l> Glad you asked. :)
<snap-l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<waldo323> helpful you are
<snap-l> Mostly triage / fix bugs, Testing, Docuumentation, Translations, packaging, and Being Friendly.
<snap-l> Oh, wait, I mean improving Ubuntu Friendly
<snap-l> which is different than being normally friendly. :)
<snap-l> https://friendly.ubuntu.com/
<snap-l> I think it's determining what laptops and hardware are more friendly to Ubuntu than others
<waldo323> aah i was hoping that going around holding doors for people and giving them an ubuntu disc would work for that
<snap-l> That's under the Ubuntu Chivalry project
<waldo323> sign me up and send me discs :)
<snap-l> unfortunately it was replaced after the Ubuntu Middle Ages
<waldo323> or usb sticks
<snap-l> The Ubuntu Renaissance saw to that.
<waldo323> aww
<snap-l> Now we just paint Circles of Friends on sistine chapels. :)
<snap-l> Anywho, Global Jam, September. We'll have one more meeting to plan and such, but the gist is we'll meet online during the weekend
<snap-l> Any questions? Concerns? Alternate plans?
<waldo323> not at this time, at least not for the bug jam
<snap-l> OK, last but not least: Ubuntu Release Party
<snap-l> This should be celebrating the release of 13.10
<snap-l> woo woo
<snap-l> which I'm sure you've all been following closely.
<brousch> hah
<snap-l> Anywho, think about what you'd like to see at the release party
<snap-l> because frankly I'd like to see someone else plan it if possible. :)
<snap-l> But hey, there's another month or so to plan that
<snap-l> so just keep that in my backs of your minds.
<snap-l> Anything else on the release party?
<waldo323> should it be the weekend after, day of, weekend before, or should that be left up to who ever plans it?
<waldo323> i think washtinaw user group meets that night
<waldo323> *Washtenaw
<snap-l> If someone wants to run with the ball I'm happy to let them run
<snap-l> As long as the answer to "who is planning the release party" is "not me", I'm quite content.
<waldo323> how planned does it need to be?
<snap-l> Not particularly. Just find a spot for people to hang out in a place that is flexible for around 20 folks
<snap-l> I was surprised at how many folks we had for the one we had at the brewery
<snap-l> I think they were surprised as well
<waldo323> my initial thoughts are RO Brewery or Black Lotus Brewery but i'll have to see about my availability before I step up
<snap-l> That would be awesome. :)
<waldo323> is there a way to have a poll on our loco site?
<waldo323> or somewhere else so we can get an idea what date would be best for those who would attend?
<snap-l> I don't think so, but Google Docs has a poll
<snap-l> Anywho, I think that wraps this meeting
<snap-l> Thank you everyone for coming. :)
<waldo323> thank you for hosting
<jrwren> meeting scheduled during trueblood airings will not be attended :p
<Blazeix> i bet they'd reschedule if you raised it with HBO
<snap-l> jrwren: That's what laptops are for. :)
<snap-l> Show can't be all that interesting
<snap-l> Also, Good morning
<rick_h> morn
<rick_h> snap-l: 12.04? or 13.04?
<snap-l> 12.04
<snap-l> I have no interest in trying anything later at the moment
<snap-l> I think there must be some people on vacation because the network is amazingly fast at work.
<brousch1> Mailpile looks interesting http://www.mailpile.is/
<brousch1> I have wondered for a couple of years why there's no good Python webmail client
<jrwren> can anyone link me to some "internal juju" docs. Some thing which describes what juju is actually doing when I juju init and juju deploy. e.g. juju init creates machine zero. why? for what is it used. How is the charm deployed? push? userdata? userdata to do pull? when is charm install run?
<rick_h> jrwren: hmm, I'm not sure what docs go into that at that level. I can give you some answers but some I don't know
<rick_h> jrwren: the docs are being updated and in looking at them it's not at that level from what I can see.
<rick_h> http://blog.labix.org/2013/06/25/the-heart-of-juju is interesting, but again, not 'behind the scenes' as much
<brousch1> Read the code!
<jrwren> thanks rick_h
<jrwren> good point brousch1
<rick_h> jrwren: so node 0 is to run the juju api server which stores all the metadata and actually pushes deploys and such
<rick_h> jrwren: there's a mongodb server with an api service running. juju talks to it and commands go from there to things on the inside of the environment
<brousch1> I can see why people like their IDEs on windows. It's frickin annoying to use anything less
<snap-l> Yeah, you don't realize how spoiled you are under Linux / UNIX
<snap-l> It's like expecting all water to taste like it has iron in it
<rick_h> meh, right tool for the job. If it sucks as doing the job change the tool
<snap-l> rather, Windows folks are used to everything tasing like it has iron in it
<rick_h> not spoiled, just choosing good tools
<rick_h> don't try to tow a camper with a Mini
<snap-l> rick_h: Yes, but if you're only used to minis you will never think to tow a camper
<brousch1> You just tow very small campers
 * rick_h is making campgruond reservations so in the camper mindset
<snap-l> along the tiny british coastline
<rick_h> and <3 google maps for checking out campground spots via sat. to help pick good spots :)
<rick_h> this is awesome https://twitter.com/Earth_Pics/status/364354667829927936/photo/1
<snap-l> Yeah, I would love to know
<brousch1> The tip of the foolishness I need to deal with on Windows https://github.com/van-dam-iron-works/WinBootstrapPyEnv
<jrwren> rick_h: when you got 29mph were you pulling that camper?
<rick_h> jrwren: huh?
<snap-l> 29mpg
<rick_h> jrwren: ah no. empty
<rick_h> jrwren: with the camper was 15mpg
<jrwren> lol, mph. wow, I need more coffee for sure.
<snap-l> brousch1: Any particular reason you're installing distribute separately?
<rick_h> snap-l: pip requires distribute if you want to use it for packages in there.
<rick_h> snap-l: so you have to install it along for the ride before pip comes in so pip can work right
<snap-l> Isn't it part of setuptools .8?
<rick_h> I know they're merged, but guessing it's not the version he's using?
<jrwren> i don't see the big deal. I do almost that identical boostrap process on linux rather often. I don't use ubuntu everywehre :)
<snap-l> kk
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, when I did python3 setup I had to do those steps manually
<brousch1> I haven't moved to the new setuptools yet
<snap-l> brousch1: Ah, no worries then
<snap-l> newer versions of distribute will install setuptools anyway (.7 and onward)
<brousch1> So maybe I get it for free from the distribute bootstrap
<snap-l> likely. I pinned ours to 0.6.49 (the last stand-alone distribute) for a project.
<rick_h> if anyone has some spare time looking for some brave bookie testers. I've got a serious branch that actually uses celery now and is sweet. Auto loads content of pages on import, auto starts imports on submit, etc.
<rick_h> add a new bookmark via bookmarklet or manual and the page content is almost there before you can get back to hit the eyeball icon to look at it :)
<snap-l> I'm only looking for casual, non-commital, and light-hearted bookie branches. ;)
<rick_h> boooo, commitment issues
<brousch1> I have 0.6.49
<snap-l> Yeah, so you're using the stand-alone distribute
<brousch1> I should look into the new one. No point in going old right now
<rick_h> a little brousch1 <3 at the end http://therealkatie.net/blog/2013/aug/5/young-coders-pyohio/
<rick_h> :( https://twitter.com/gregferrell/status/364409864321110016
<snap-l> Nice.
<brousch1> rick_h: Woohoo on the kivy!
<jrwren> interesting: http://www.stylight.com/Numbers/pipes-and-filters-architectures-with-python-generators/  from a couple weeks ago pycoder weekly mail
<jrwren> i've never seen reduce used that way
<jrwren> in any language, or if I have, i've forgotten.
<greg-g> random thought: since the email spec says + addressing is acceptable (you know, me+bugs@domain.com is delivered to me@domain.com) shouldn't websites not allow multiple accounts that are just + addresses of the same root?
 * greg-g overhears people in coffee shop testing their webapp with test accounts that are u+alice@, u+bob@, etc
<snap-l> Not all services handle it that way
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, if anyone bothered to check
 * rick_h does a `bookie user list G +`
<snap-l> I think it's a convention, but you could theoretically have different accounts referenced by the +
<greg-g> snap-l: well, there supposed to
 * greg-g checks spec
<snap-l> But yeah, email is fun that way
<rick_h> greg-g: email = email.replace(/\+[^@]/, '')
<snap-l> rick_h: Don't you DARE do that. :)
<rick_h> :)
<greg-g> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5233
<greg-g> maybe a better one: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3598
<snap-l> Implementations SHOULD
<snap-l>    allow the separator character to be configurable so that they may be
<snap-l>    used with a variety of mail systems.
<rick_h> yea, a lot of web apps don't allow a + in the email
<rick_h> drives gmail users bonkers
<snap-l> I remember getting yelled at by SF users for that.
<rick_h> I've got 4 of them in bmark.us.
<jrwren> http://adambard.com/blog/Reducers-explained-through-Python/  cool
<snap-l> Well, not yelled ay per se... more "comic book guy"ed
<greg-g> hah
<jrwren> SHOULD v MUST
<rick_h> ah specs, where no one wants to be locked down to anything
<snap-l> And then we get yelled at for being pedantic. :)
<snap-l> or not being pedantic enough
<jrwren> did you know dovecot has a lucene plugin base on CLucene which indexes all mailboxes ?
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, but then you're doing searches against the back end
<jrwren> which might be good
<jrwren> i run dovecot on my laptop
<rick_h> I'm pretty happy with notmuch (xapaian and packaged) locally
<rick_h> jrwren: ah, I run dovecot on my server, but nothing locally
<greg-g> notmuch is good enough for me, but I know people are swearing by dovecot locally (instead of offlineimap)
 * rick_h didn't realize dovecot would be able to be a 'sync' layer to replace offileimap
<greg-g> yep
<jrwren> i just found it easier to setup.
<jrwren> and it works great.
<jrwren> I don't know if it syncs or not.
<jrwren> i just fetchmail from an unstable Exchange server.
<jrwren> so my stability improvement is HUGE
<rick_h> well call me curious I guess if it can replace offlineimap. offlineimap hangs on my server once in a while and I've got to kill it
<snap-l> Yeah, I use fetchmail and dovecot with a local maildir
<brousch1> OK, now my install script is much less embarrassing. Added support to automatically download and install Python, PyWin32, and the environment. Also Python3.3 https://github.com/van-dam-iron-works/WinBootstrapPyEnv
<brousch1> Do you think that python on windows bootstrap is appropriate for pypi?
<snap-l> Not sure, but wouldn't hurt to try
<rick_h> meh, there's a ton of sample packages from books up there
<rick_h> brousch1: if you want to pip install it then put it up there I say
<brousch1> It doesn't make sense as a pip install. It installs pip!
<rick_h> hah!
<rick_h> then no, I'd not put it up there
<rick_h> I'd put it on github
<rick_h> git clone helper && helper.run
<snap-l> Jesus, you'd think the Washington Post was the center of the universe on Twitter.
<rick_h> yea, kind of a big deal though. one of the big papers in the country.
<rick_h> though /me only has 2 references to it
<snap-l> Wonder if the folks from Geeknet will stick around there
<snap-l> I follow Jeff Jarvis
<brousch1> Having git installed on Windows does not seem like a good assumption, so my instructions have you download the project as a zip, unzip it, then run the appropriate .bat
<snap-l> and several other folks that feel this is a big deal.
<rick_h> snap-l: heh, well there's your first mistake :P
<snap-l> If you're a developer in 2013 and don't have git installed... well, I can't help you.
<brousch1> Come on now. It's useful for n00bs
<rick_h> develeper != noob
<rick_h> at least shouldn't :/
<snap-l> Cue the "disruption" articles
<rick_h> ugh
<rick_h> http://162.209.74.229:6543/ cool, running on rackspace server for free :)
<rick_h> time to make it go boom!
<rick_h> heh, and broken things
<greg-g> ok, who uses gnome shell here? and have you noticed the "you can't expand a column in nautilus bigger than the current window can take, ie: you can't expand the filename col very far until it stops, because the right most column has hit the edge of the window" bug?
<greg-g> I bet its a feature, but dammit
<snap-l> Just attached a HDMI cable to the monitor.
<snap-l> And figured out how to arrange things so it's at full resolution
<snap-l> Hurray for pointless but satisfying upgrades. :)
<snap-l> JoDee is pissed.
<snap-l> She ordered something from JoAnn Fabrics that arrived in Madison Heights on Saturday
<snap-l> They handed it off to the post office today
<snap-l> she hasn't seen it yet
<snap-l> Meanwhile I had a package that was supposed to arrive on Tuesday show up today.
<snap-l> (from Amazon)
<snap-l> Needless to say she'll be much more reluctant to buy anything from JoAnns online
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-06
<snap-l> Goodmorning
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> I have no scientific basis for this theory, but I think my computer video runs faster over HDMI
<snap-l> It just feels snappier today
<rick_h> vs vga?
<snap-l> dvi
<snap-l> I also attribute this to a phenominon I noticed whenever listening to remastered audio
<snap-l> I'd suddenly hear things, and think " wow, this remaster is really making things pop"
<snap-l> only to listen to the old version and realize it was there all along, I was just listening more carefully
<snap-l> phantom-awesome.
<snap-l> could be the card as well not having to do something or other
<snap-l> Again, nothing in reality to base this assertion
<snap-l> I <3 crashes related to video drivers.
<snap-l> Making me think twice about the AMD card.
<rick_h> how does one know that it's related to the video card?
<brousch> Intel or DIAF
<snap-l> One sees segfaults in chrome, X server, compiz, etc.
<snap-l> Intel can DIAF
<rick_h> heh, intel or bust on laptops
<rick_h> but I'm enjoying my 3 monitor hookup on my nvidia on the desktop
<snap-l> Yeah, Intel is great if you don't care about graphics
<rick_h> but care about battery life and crashing :P
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> I have a beta driver installed now
<snap-l> Price I pay for a newer card
<snap-l> Didn't have as much problem with the 5450, but it's a slow-mo-fo
<snap-l> 7750 is proving crashy
<rick_h> 660ti works no problems :)
<snap-l> But that said, I'm overall pretty pleased
<snap-l> Yeah, I'll bet. If I spent as much on my video card as I did on my past 3 computers I'd be happy too. ;)
<snap-l> Actually 660ti is not as expensive as I thought
<rick_h> you buy $70 computers
<rick_h> ?
<snap-l> Well, I did buy two RasPis
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h> oh now that's cheating and you know it
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I thought it was a more expensive card
<snap-l> damn model numbers
<rick_h> yea, I mean I didn't shoot the moon on graphics, just the rest of it
<rick_h> though it does appear to be 2x the ati one. Figured it'd be closer
<snap-l> http://www.microcenter.com/product/406092/HD7750-DCSL-1GD5_AMD_Radeon_HD_7750_DirectCU_Silent_1024MB_GDDR5_PCIe_30_x16_Video_Card
<snap-l> That's the one that I have
<rick_h> gotcha
<snap-l> Wanted something without a fan on it
<snap-l> Not like the rest of the computer is silent or anything, but for some reason I have this thumb-sucking idea that I needed a silent video card. :)
<brousch> Got a survey call from the "HP Mirosoft Team". I totally destroyed their scripted questions
<rick_h> at least it wasn't the HP Microsoft Oracle team :P
<brousch> I love questions about my datacenter. It's 2 dell server towers and a Synology NAS
<brousch> And my network infrastructure is a single 48 port 100mbps switch
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> My database infrastructure is Access97 and Postgres
<rick_h> gentlemen! start your linters! http://www.logilab.org/blogentry/163292
<snap-l> Interesting listening to a song about the 1990s gulf war twenty years later
<snap-l> (Hexx - Fire Mushrooms in case anyone is wondering)
<greg-g> snap-l: always interesting to hear those old songs saying things people didn't want to believe were true, and now we know they are
 * greg-g doesn't know that song
<greg-g> but in general
<jrwren> is that anything like listening ot songs about the 92 riots 21yrs later?
<jrwren> LA92!!!!
<greg-g> jrwren: nice
<brousch> Damn this celery queue on Windows is annoying to set up. I need celery which needs rabbitmq which needs erlang
<rick_h> celery works with redis, or a database even
<brousch> redis has some unsupported windows port
<rick_h> I just got through changing the bookie celery use from db to redis which is what I'm working on landing soon
<brousch> For database I'm stuck with sqlite or I have to install a real DB
<rick_h> right now, bmark.us uses postgresql for it
<rick_h> but it can use sqlite (single worker though :/) or mysql
<brousch> It seems like a lot of work for a queue
<rick_h> and the celery back end can be on a different machine
<rick_h> brousch: it can also use amazon's SQS, though there was a bug when I tried it a couple of years ago
<rick_h> shoot, there are redis as a service places
<brousch> I'm going for more compact, not more spread out
<rick_h> you can host it on linux somewhere else and talk to it from windows
<brousch> I want something I can install and run localhost
<rick_h> postgres has a nice windows install these days?
<rick_h> or keep having fun trying to get erlang/rabbitmq on windows
<rick_h> feels a bit "damn I can't get this hemi to fit into my go-kart" to me :P
<brousch> The instructions aren't bad, but it's a lot of stuff to keep track of between dev and prod
<jrwren> brousch: i hate to suggest mysql
<brousch> maybe i should put rabbit/redis on a linux vm
<jrwren> but it really is easy to run out of process, but still uninstalled on windows.
<Blazeix> i ran redis on windows a while back, seemed fairly painless
<brousch> Same amount of pain as rabbitmq on Windows, but less supported
<Blazeix> even had c# code talking to it
<Blazeix> oh, well i don't know about the support, but it was trivial to connect to it and start storing data
<Blazeix> this was for local development, and maybe ~20 concurrent users
<Blazeix> so not a seriously hammered app
<brousch> I won't have more than 20 users in this
<brousch> Actually I can only use 1 worker for this, so sqlite might be good enough
<greg-g> oh god: https://github.com/kennethreitz/autoenv
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, that came up at pyohio
<brousch> If it's not enough, I'll set up rabbit on linux
<greg-g> rick_h: in a "never ever ever do this" kind of way?
<rick_h> greg-g: as in some guy was "I love this autoenv thing, I just wish it would do XX" and Kenneth was there going "I've thought about that"
<rick_h> Followed by "...you wrote it?"
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h> gotta love conferences
<greg-g> :) yep
<brousch> That was funny
<rick_h> but yea, it's not my cup of tea
<brousch> Jace got all wide-eyed
<greg-g> I came across it via http://richardhartmann.de/blog/posts/2013/08/06-High_security/
<rick_h> I'm pretty much anti-magic
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> yea, I think Jace had a good time at the conference.
<rick_h> was fun to hang out with a first-timer
<brousch> He had a lot of good questions
<brousch> Using Django with Python3.3 in my newest application
<snap-l> any particular reason for this? :)
<brousch> Because I am awesome
<brousch> I need this to stick around for a few years without having to re-write it for PYthon3
<snap-l> Be careful what you wish for. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-07
<jrwren> python3.3 is a little faster than 2.7
<rick_h> yea, it's what they say. Which is nice because 3.0 was slloooooooow
<jrwren> brousch: use pypy!
<jrwren> :)
<rick_h> man, I should have done a wc on that email.
<rick_h> people, don't ask why things don't work with JS turned off...it's not a legit question any more
<jrwren> lol, i run  no script, I still don't ask those questions.
<rick_h> do you run noscript on all JS? The only legit use I can see is 3rd party JS
<jrwren> FF has 3rd party JS disabled by default now :)
<jrwren> i run noscript on all JS
<jrwren> then I enable site by site.
<jrwren> it doesn't take long to get a trusted profile of sites going
<greg-g> jrwren++
<jrwren> and if I don't trust a site, i don't enable JS
<jrwren> bonus: awesome ad blocker
<jrwren> i never get some unwanted flash movie advertisement
<jrwren> i never see the fortune.com ad, i just click enxt.
<jrwren> and I save bandwidth on all those pageloads. I never see the ads
<jrwren> noscript is a huge reason I still use firefox and am not chrome only
<snap-l> rick_h: ping
<snap-l> Bookmarked http://www.businessinsider.com/tech-ceos-favorite-productivity-hacks-2013-8?op=1
<snap-l> BReadability shows this: https://bmark.us/bmark/readable/885acc8f0d9299
<snap-l> There's some images missing
<snap-l> not a big deal, but wondering what happened. :)
<snap-l> I should probably make an issue for this and post into #bookie instead.
<snap-l> <- mea culpa
<snap-l> MOved this to #bookie
<rick_h> snap-l: so it's probably the logic around picking the body content. Notice that the ones with missing images are missing any <p> or <div>
<rick_h> they're bullet lists
<rick_h> more list content than 'wordy' content
<rick_h> snap-l: bug like that is more about breadability and can be added as a bug there to try to improve the scoring/parsing of this type of content.
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/breadability/issues?state=open
<snap-l> kk
<snap-l> Filed it there.
<rick_h> thanks
<rick_h> thanks for finding a page we parse better than readability on lol
<rick_h> I could spend a month just working on breadability
<snap-l> Maybe that could be a sprint at some point? :)
<rick_h> yea, I'm thinking of putting one together the 31st maybe
<rick_h> I'm thinking of the test coverage one, but if anyone's interested in how readable parsing works I'd be happy to go through that.
<snap-l> That one is more interesting for me, honestly.
<rick_h> I find it kind of interseting to see the scoring log info go by and try to figure out how it thinks
<snap-l> (The readability piece)
<snap-l> Testing is for chumps. :)
<rick_h> sudo pip install breadability && breadability -bd "http://www.businessinsider.com/tech-ceos-favorite-productivity-hacks-2013-8?op=1"
<snap-l> (actually, I'm getting the testing religion)
<snap-l> That's neat. :)
<snap-l> Now how to work this into my workflow
<snap-l> I may never need a bookmarking site again. ;)
<rick_h> yea, with that flag it logs out each decision, how many points a node got, why it was being removed, etc.
<rick_h> hah, instead ofa tmp file write it out as an email in your rss2inbox? Then have your bookmarks there as well
<rick_h> if you want to tinker with this stuff can run you through it at CHC tonight
<rick_h> it's a fun problem sometimes
<snap-l> Yeah, I might give it a look-see
<snap-l> Also: Packt is now part of the O'Reilly fold
<snap-l> 50% off Packt books
<snap-l> which makes them about reasonable
 * snap-l picked up the LMMS book that he was eyeballing
<rick_h> orly? packt bought by oreilly?
<brousch> So next year we need to turn Sunday morning at PyOhio into gaming time. Get some Munchkin going.
<snap-l> rick_h: I think they're just distributing the books
<snap-l> brousch: You're speaking my language. :)
<snap-l> I brought Martian Dice just in case
<snap-l> and much like the other games I brought to PyOhio, it went back home unplayed
<brousch> I think we'd need a dedicated time slot for it
<brousch> Sunday morning is obvious
<snap-l> Yeah, but that means I'd have to wake up. :)
<snap-l> And waking up is hard to do
<brousch> I'll bang on your door. I was up at 6AM
<snap-l> Well that was fun
<snap-l> Networkon the desktop machine just went *poof*
<snap-l> Having all sorts of hardware fun this morning
<snap-l> hoping it's not related to my video card
<rick_h> snap-l: hardware hates you man
<snap-l> or rather hoping it is, and not that my motherboard is deciding it too hates me
<snap-l> Yeah, this is becoming apparent.
<brousch> I hate hardware. I long for the day when I can own a disposable screen and keyboard and do it all in the cloud
<brousch> It is getting close
<jrwren> that is silly
<jrwren> that day is now.
<jrwren> the problem is the screen is the most expensive part.
<snap-l> brousch: And not that good
<jrwren> I could do all my work on a BBB, but I need a KB and screen.
<jrwren> and guess what??? the issue to which you responded will still happen. network will still drop on your cloud terminal.
<brousch> Then the day has not arrived yet
<snap-l> brousch: Then that day will never come
<snap-l> Best find your rake and start digging in the sand because that's a more achievable goal
<brousch> What is the goal of that?
<snap-l> There is no goal, just to find inner peace through repetition
<brousch> Chromebook is pretty close to my ideal
<brousch> But not everything is a webapp yet
<jrwren> you want to be subject to google eh?
<snap-l> Praise be to Google
<brousch> Indeed
<brousch> jrwren: The concept of the Chromebook is pretty close to my ideal :P
<ColonelPanic001> :(
<brousch> :-*
<jrwren> zomg: http://geert.vanderkelen.org/mysql-connector-python-1-1-0a/
<jrwren> the fact that prepared statements just got in is INSANE
<jrwren> I feel like this is 1996
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm not following why this is a big deal that they weren't implemented
<rick_h> because prepared statements or bust says all the things for long long time
<rick_h> it's like just now escaping data in templates by default
<snap-l> Does this person work directly for Oracle?
<snap-l> I'm getting the impression this wasn't a high priority item
<snap-l> Honestly haven't been following the MySQL end of things so any of this is news.
<rick_h> Blazeix: background on your chrome twitter post?
<Blazeix> rick_h: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6165708
<Blazeix> and resulting www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/07/google-chrome-password-security-flaw
<Blazeix> "One security manager at a publishing company said: "The fact you can view the passwords means they are stored in reversible form which means that the dark coders out there will be writing a Trojan to steal that password store as we speak."
<Blazeix> scary that someone called a 'security manager' would say that
<rick_h> huh?! wtf did they think chrome was doing to auto enter your passwords into a site?
<Blazeix> exactly!
<Blazeix> the amount of stupidity being displayed is staggering. the chrome security lead is commenting in that hn thread, and I feel sorry for him
<rick_h> ugh
<greg-g> see! identi.ca is still the best social network
<greg-g> I posted to craigslist, twitter, and identi.ca asking for a ride to Tahoe on Friday
<greg-g> guess where i got a positive response
<greg-g> (a ride, that is)
<snap-l> greg-g: That's because people like you there. :)
<greg-g> awww, I take that as a compliment instead of an underhanded poke (that people don't like me other places) ;)
<snap-l> Well, it's both. :)
<snap-l> You're a celeb on identi.ca,
<snap-l> and on twitter there's a broader audience that can't necessarily help out
<snap-l> and Craigslist is where creepy hitchiker-devourers lurk
<rick_h> Blazeix: this is nuts. "As people have pointed out, you can inspect the password via web inspector etc. This is another, serious security flaw and one that I think the HTML WG ought to look into."
<rick_h> it's in the html!!!!! of course you can!!!
<Blazeix> yeah, i was raging hard
<Blazeix> can't imagine what the chrome guys are doing
<rick_h> "our users are stupid, remember when we were small and only tech-heads used us and filed useful bugs?"
<rick_h> lol " I just checked what rquick said (Firefox 22 on Mac is Firefox->Preferences->Security->Saved Passwords-> Show Passwords) and there's all my passwords. Yikes!"
<rick_h> "What Google has done is just bad practice. There is no legitimate reason for allowing all of a users' online passwords to be stored and retrieved in plain text."
<rick_h> it's the freaking browser FEATURE that you have to OPT IN to!!!
<greg-g> uh oh
 * greg-g decides not to catch up on scrollback
<Blazeix> i'm glad to have a rage-buddy like rick_h. i couldn't get anyone at work to rage with me. they would recognize the stupidity, but not rage :)
<rick_h> well, I mean...it's just *wrong* not even stupid
<rick_h> "There is no legitimate reason for allowing all of a users' online  passwords to be stored and retrieved in plain text.
<rick_h> "
<rick_h> that is just a lie
<rick_h> not stupid
<Blazeix> yeah, plus, it's not really stored in plain text. it's encrypted on disk
<rick_h> and this article is so much FUD that it's edited up to correct for its lies
<Blazeix> using OS-level encryption facilities. so if someone steals your harddrive, they don't have your password
<rick_h> "in 2010 firefox...oh right...still does the SAME THING"
<Blazeix> malware can steal it, but there's no protection against that
<Blazeix> short of not saving passwords
<rick_h> right, just don't use the feature
<snap-l> reminds me of the people who ut 15 locks on their front door, and then get wide-eyed when they realize every one of their windows is an entry-point
<snap-l> And if you just realized this, I'm so sorry.
<greg-g> "luckily" I live in a city where all accessible windows are gated up
<greg-g> :(
<snap-l> greg-g: Didn't you realize you lived in a gated community? :)
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h> Blazeix: my sprint t-shirts just arrived and they're strangely applicable! http://uploads.mitechie.com/2013-gui-sprint.jpg
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> I... don't ge tit
<greg-g> s/ t/t /
<rick_h> greg-g: the shirt?
<greg-g> ya
<rick_h> greg-g: so at the sprint one of the devs went talking about some project, and lack of test, but it was ok because it had a lot of users, and broken things were found pretty quick...and
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h> and basically I told him "sssh, I want to be friends..."
<rick_h> and another guy broke out the phrase on the t-shirt and it because the theme :)
<Blazeix> rick_h: haha, awesome!
<jrwren> FF lets you put a master passwrod on
<rick_h> jrwren: as an option
<jrwren> so that the password are encrypted on disk and you enter a password when you start FF
<jrwren> yes, chrome doesn't have that option.
<rick_h> jrwren: if the issue is "users are too stupid to realize wtf is going on"
<jrwren> so there is a sense that chrome does need a feature
<rick_h> it's no different
<jrwren> i can have a password on my chrome?
<rick_h> except when it starts and you unlock it, you still walk away with your passwords exposed
<rick_h> jrwren: yes, use lastpass
<rick_h> care about your passwords
<greg-g> redirecter!
<jrwren> holy shit, that is not even close to compariable. exiting this conversation.
<greg-g> jrwren wasn't defending anything ,just saying "hey, why can't I put a master password on my Chrome password manager, like both Fx and Lastpass do?"
<rick_h> greg-g: because, as the chrome guys point out, it's a false sense of security
<rick_h> greg-g: it doesnt' change the passwords on disk, it doesn't change the feature to view them in the browser, it doesn't change the ability for someone to grab your computer and look
<rick_h> "I've got my passwords protected...so long as I walk away from my computer, without FF open, and don't give them long enough to copy the encyrpted files off the disk..."
<greg-g> so, I guess ya'll don't know about the user studies that have been done about this
<rick_h> any other time...I'm just as fubar as every other browser that has the password saving feature
<greg-g> it isn't about 'encyrption omg nsa'
<greg-g> it's about "I don't want my mom to log into my facebook"
<rick_h> fine, then don't let your mom log into your computer or account
<rick_h> or don't save the password
<greg-g> a master password does that
<greg-g> they're going to move to just a pin-code type thing soon, too, I believe
<rick_h> www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/07/google-chrome-password-security-flaw is not about a pin code to prevent mom from your facebook account
<greg-g> again, don't bring it back to a flawed article that I'm not defending :)
<rick_h> ok, so this new topic without any baggage from earilier events. A master password is good for Johnny because he can lock his mom out of his facebook?
<greg-g> basically, but even that is too combersome for him (as the user studies showed), so users just leave it unsecure by default (chrome's default/only option), but given the user studies, Fx will provide a more simple way of saving/retrieving passwords using a pin
<rick_h> ok, so chrome should follow FF's lead of plans to make things safer for Jonny's facebook. Carry on FF
<Blazeix> jrwren: chrome's passwords are encrypted on disk
<Blazeix> i know that's your main point, but just fyi
<Blazeix> er, s/that's/that's not/
<jrwren> encrypted with what key?
<Blazeix> platform specific, on windows http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa380261(v=vs.85).aspx
<Blazeix> basically just prevents the case where someone steals your laptop
<jrwren> oh lovely! I alwyas liked that MSFT api
<greg-g> unless you don't have a password on your account and you just suspend, right?
<jrwren> even then they are encrypted on disk, IIRC
<jrwren> the ms api accounts for that
<greg-g> sure, but I could just open your laptop, open Chrome, and done
<jrwren> right
<greg-g> so, how many of you ever seen non techies set a userpassword on their laptops?
<greg-g> everyone I see has it autologin when they open their laptop lid
<rick_h> heh, I make my wife use one :)
<greg-g> rick_h: I haven't yet convinced carrie :/
<rick_h> but that's what I mean? If you don't care about the reste of your computer, why do you care about the chrome passwords?
<greg-g> especially since she has her gmail always logged in... ugh
<rick_h> there's nothing worse in there?
<Blazeix> if they can't be bothered to set a password on their laptop, won't they be too lazy set a master browser password?
<rick_h> greg-g: and what user, that auto logs in, will use a master passowrd on their browser?
<rick_h> I guess I'd love to see that stufy
<greg-g> just saying, the "encrypted on disk" thing isn't really all that much better
<rick_h> study
<greg-g> didn't say that, ya'll are putting words in my mouth
<greg-g> those are two different use cases
<rick_h> no, we're asking
<greg-g> 1) stupid users who don't use passwords, so "encrypted on disk" doesn't mean shit
<greg-g> 2) people who want to have security a little bit, please give them something
<greg-g> there's other ones as well, but those are the two easiest to understand
<brousch> I want effortless "it just works when it's me" and "it doesn't work when it's not me"
<brousch> make it so
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> isn't that the fingerprint reader idea? :)
<_stink_> have it ask for a depraved joke
<_stink_> that's the brousch test
<greg-g> hahaha
<Blazeix> for (1), they're hosed no matter what, there isn't a solution
<greg-g> Blazeix: yep, which was only the point I was making :)
<Blazeix> but "encrypted on disk" helps out those who have an account password
<Blazeix> which i guess you're arguing is a minority, except maybe in a business setting
<greg-g> right, so that's use case (3), which, I suppose, might be more common than 2 (masterpassword wanters) but no idea relatie to 1
<greg-g> yeah, business setting you'r eprobably right
<rick_h> hmm, so amazon sent me a box of things I never ordered
<rick_h> no receipt, box is in my name
<rick_h> hmm, not really a "So amazon sent you extra crap" box in the help here
<brousch> Someone in the amazon Warehouse loves you
<rick_h> geeze, over $500 worth of stuff :/
<greg-g> anything good?
<rick_h> only good thing is a JBL Charge
<rick_h> http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Portable-Wireless-Bluetooth-Speaker/dp/B00BNIO4H8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375901096&sr=8-1&keywords=jbl+charge
<rick_h> then three targus usb3 -> desktop workstation devices
<rick_h> http://www.amazon.com/Targus-Docking-Station-Ultrabooks-ACP70USZ/dp/B005YR1PV2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375901130&sr=8-2&keywords=targus+superspeed
<rick_h> amazon, I've love to give you back your stuff...but I can only do 'select returns from your orders' and since I didn't order it...can't submit it
<rick_h> ah, joy. To the help forums we go.
<jrwren> greg-g: where does carrie hang out? I'd like to steal her laptop :)
<greg-g> jrwren: it is currently in a cabin in Tahoe ;)
<brousch> Sounds like the plot of a short story
<snap-l> rick_h: Sheesh, they could have sent you better stuff
<snap-l> I mean the speaker is cool, but the desktop workstations are pretty meh
<brousch> Hitting fail in my python3.3 django project. No py3 for django-debug-toolbar and django-windows-tools
<brousch> I should see if Pyramid is any better
<snap-l> Yes, you should
<brousch> I have a lot bigger learning curve with it, though. I have to look up things like how to start a project
<brousch> Pyramid setup was nicer than I remembered. I also remember being overwhelmed by all of the files and dirs pcreate sets up, but now I see it's just stuff you end up manually creating in Django later
<brousch> For an unopinionated framework, Pyramid sure includes a lot of different templates
<brousch> Oh no! There's zope in my pip freeze!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-08
<snap-l> mathomastech: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9058804/BTa2e.jpg
<rick_h> bwuhahaha, <3 bookmarklet bookie users should be happy. Nearly instant content loading and fulltext indexing now
<jrwren> yay
<rick_h> updated the celery setup so things are instant queue'd worked on.
<rick_h> vs time based
<rick_h> also some admin friendly bits, import fixes, error notifications
<rick_h> sorry for the downtime :/
<Blazeix> i want my money back
<rick_h> heh, I'm out of checks :(
<rick_h> fixing bookie from the car in the closed caribou parking lot ftw!
<Blazeix> haha, nice
<rick_h> ahhhh, and nice new admin api end points for rerunning imports and indexing.
<rick_h> now let's hope I can get the new rackspace servers up before memory becomes a problem now that redis is running :/
<greg-g> is there a good reference explaining "you're doing it wrong"?
<greg-g> erm, forgot the first part of that :)
<greg-g> ugh, my bank does bad user agent string matching/blocking :(
<Blazeix> maybe http://foaas.com/
<greg-g> haha
<snap-l> Good morning
<jrwren> what is so good about it?
<jrwren> i guess it is good.
<jrwren> i'm watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9kobkqAicU
<jrwren> good morning to you.
<snap-l> Well, we're still here to talk about it
<snap-l> so that's good to hear.
<brousch> Going to a model rocket launch event Saturday
<brousch> In the middle of a wastewater treatment plant
 * snap-l just moved some more bookmarks to Bookie.
<snap-l> Now the only bookmarks I have are work-related, links to some personal sites, and bookie-stubs
<snap-l> ie: bookmark that says "news" that points to https://bmark.us/craig/recent/news?count=50&page=0
<snap-l> I think it's a service I can trust, especially the level of support I receive from someone who fires his laptop up in the Caribou parking lot. :)
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> and it's good because my branch is up for review finally!
<brousch> He seems kind of sketchy. I heard he doesn't even run a real desktop environment.
<rick_h> and that explains why my pebble just went nuts with new bookmarks :P
<brousch> You get an alert for each new bookmark?
<rick_h> brousch: yes, I use ifttt to turn the bookie rss feed into text messages to google voice
<snap-l> Oh that's no good. :)
<rick_h> brousch: makes me feel good as traffic pics up
<rick_h> used to get a couple a day, been a bit more lately
 * brousch redoubles his Django bookmarking
<snap-l> You should have it do a "yabba dabba do" for each bookmark, like Steve Gibson
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> yea, sometimes it's fun to play "name that bookmark-er"
<rick_h> but mainly it's just good to have a daily reminder that there's this thing out there that would like some attention
<snap-l> And a nice positive way to learn that
<rick_h> right
<snap-l> as opposed to nagios alerts
<rick_h> at some point I'll turn it off, but then I'll have to throw a party that there's too many bookmarks to not be annoyed by it
<brousch> rick_h: I started 2 projects with Pyramid to give it a try. It's easier than I remembered. I'm not sure if the docs improved or if my Django use has made things more obvious
<snap-l> Probably both
<snap-l> That and you're better looking now
<rick_h> yea, understand how a framework works better
<brousch> I had a similar experience with Python. I looked at it in about 2004, but via Zope and Plone. Then I did Java for a couple years and went back to Python and I saw how great it is
<brousch> Hm, I should go look at Zope and Plone again. They might be the most awesome things ever now
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> ouch, chromecast order updated from tomorrow until Oct 17-30th :/
<rick_h> #backorderfail
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> brousch: I wonder if that means when you head back to Java that'll make Java more awesome?
<snap-l> or is the inverse true. ;)
<brousch> Well I looked at Android, and it was not awesome
<snap-l> yeah, every time I look at Java I think of turd polishing
<snap-l> I hope soma.fm never gets rid of the defcon channel
<snap-l> Been loving the hell out if it
<snap-l> Blazeix: Would you pass this link along to mathomastech: http://i.imgur.com/qq9Ofpi.jpg
<snap-l> Current Wallpaper: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9058804/spy_vs_spy_3360x1050_wallpaper_Wallpaper_3360x1050_www.wallpaperbeautiful.com.jpg
<Blazeix> sent. that will be 5Â¢
<rick_h> man, postage prices have gone down
<brousch> That's email postage
<brousch> All email postage fees go directly to the NSA so they can help to protect your freedom
<brousch> snap-l: I'm not feeling the legendary Ting love. I ordered my phone 9 days ago, no tracking number has been sent, and an email to support yesterday has not been answered.
<snap-l> brousch: Patience
<snap-l> Blazeix: Thanks. I'll send it via Paypal
<snap-l> Oh, sorry, they took it all in service fees
<brousch> 8 days with no notice seemed pretty patient to me
<brousch> They took the money right away!
<snap-l> Which phone did you order?
<brousch> SIII
<snap-l> Hm
<brousch> Hm, maybe they didn't take the money yet
<jrwren> juju is agplv3??? WTF?!?!
<rick_h> most of our stuff is
<jrwren> i guess that is fine :)
<jrwren> my first reaction was insane freakout, but i'm over it. :)
<brousch> OH, now the phone is back order
<snap-l> brousch: Ugh
<snap-l> I think you need to contact them again. That's crap.
<brousch> I have
<brousch> Might as well wait for my Edge
<snap-l> Now now
<snap-l> It's worth the wait. Trust me
<snap-l> but yeah, they're not large enough to really have the shipping devices bit down yet
<brousch> I responded that the confirmation email should mention the back order instead of saying it will ship the next day
<greg-g> snap-l: totally agree re DEF CON somaFM station
<greg-g> "and whenever a fed said something that was bullshit they'd way the pendants like this, and those pendants were always waving"
<greg-g> snap-l: the DJ list is pretty impressive sounding, too http://somafm.com/events/aboutyourdj.html
<greg-g> snap-l: a bad sign though, that all of the urls for it are "event" eg that page and the playlist :/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-09
<greg-g> hah, jacob applebaum quote on the SomaFM DEFCON station
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, that makes me wonder if it's going away
<snap-l> Frankly it's better for me than Groove Salad, and that's saying a lot
<greg-g> word
<greg-g> snap-l: !!!!
<greg-g> We had a lot of fun broadcasting from the DEF CON conference last week in
<greg-g> Las Vegas. Our DEF CON channel is still running through the end of the
<greg-g> month, and may become a full-time channel on SomaFM.
<brousch1> snap-l: I just discovered Metalocalypse on Netflix
<jrwren> WAT
<brousch1> How the hell did I miss this?
<snap-l> brousch: I haven't actually seen the cartoon (I lknow)
<snap-l> but the music is pretty top notch
<snap-l> They actually got some death metal musicians to work on it, like Gene "the machine" Hoglan
<brousch> It is awesome
<brousch> I ordered all of the CDs
<snap-l> Love remote meetings
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> business above the waste, party below?
<snap-l> Um, yeah.
<rick_h> oh...well just guessing ...
<snap-l> thankfully I don't have to have the video camera at all. :)
<rick_h> :P
<rick_h> all party all the time!
<snap-l> Skype is awesome
<snap-l> OK, this is pretty awesome.
<snap-l> https://bmark.us/redirect/67638d88a155cf
<snap-l> Especially if you have a habit of reusing Amazon boxes for shipping
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> Blazeix: https://docs.google.com/a/mitechie.com/forms/d/17DguWRQgMdKtSjXYb8vJJKSY-WO92gHIsWd3FAfOhh0/viewform
<rick_h> Blazeix: file your JS bug issue from CHC
<rick_h> Blazeix: comes out of https://twitter.com/paul_irish/status/365855335023517696
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/av/uks-bloodstock-festival-is-streaming-free-all-weekend-long-king-diamond-lamb-of-god-slayer
<snap-l> I think it's Voivod up righ tnow
<snap-l> And now the stream is screwing up
<Blazeix> rick_h: cool, thanks
<greg-g> in other news: "oh world...." <frowny face>
<snap-l> What happened now?
<greg-g> oh, you know, the usual
<greg-g> lots of little things that in their own space seem huge but are really just the continuation of stupidness previously
<snap-l> NSA stuff?
<greg-g> I guess that was one of them
<snap-l> Chrome Passwords?
<greg-g> also, HarvardX
<greg-g> (HarvardX is their quasi MOOC thingy)
<snap-l> What's the problem with that?
<snap-l> Or is that the OMG EDUCATION IS VIRTUAL LET'S MAKE VIRTUAL KINDERGARTEN
<snap-l> Which was one of the more stupid things I've heard that sounded like an onion headline
<greg-g> they're "innovating" by going backwards to a model where they can sell (I'm guessing, wasn't explicit either way, but they did say they don't need to be "open" anymore) the smallest chunk of educational something that idiots are willing to pay for
<snap-l> http://www.edweek.org/dd/articles/2013/06/12/03kindergarten.h06.html
<greg-g> and by idiots, I mean other primary/secondary schools
<greg-g> oh good god
<snap-l> Honestly if I were a school I'd be shitting myself
<greg-g> so, guess what, kids need more than just "education" from schools
<greg-g> the things you can't get from a computer
 * greg-g rants
<snap-l> Yeah, I learned all sorts of things in my pre-school years
<snap-l> shame, individuality, group mentality
<snap-l> How to tie my shoes
<snap-l> Mexican Jumping Beans
<greg-g> ooo!
<greg-g> Mexican Jumping Beans!
<snap-l> I'm sure there were more, but those are the highlights. :)
<snap-l> Oh, that and Fonzie wasn't just a muppet
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Long story there.
<greg-g> hahahahahaha
<greg-g> also, wow, edweek splatters your browser with 19 cookies
<snap-l> This is surprising why?
<snap-l> Education is big business
<snap-l> there were 8 ads on that page
<greg-g> what ads?
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> At least that's what adblock said.
<greg-g> i'm using this now, which is awesome: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/self-destructing-cookies/
<greg-g> jrwren might like it
<greg-g> since he's a noscript user, too
<brousch> rick_h: You will be proud of me. I am chugging along very well with Pyramid and haven't asked you for help yet
<snap-l> Apparently there is a trend in restaurants to use this service called myguestaccount.com with loaylty cards
<snap-l> AKA: more shit to carry around in my wallet
<brousch> I haven't seen that
<snap-l> National Coney Island has one, and so does California Pizza Kitchen
<greg-g> <tinfoilhat>And guess who the product is in that relationship!</tinfoilhat>
<greg-g> (though, really, no tinfoil needed, 'tis true)
<snap-l> Just another in the long line of trying to track customer loyalty
<snap-l> greg-g: Oh I'm fully aware of this
<greg-g> s/loyalty/buying patterns they can sell to anyone and everyone willing to buy it/
<snap-l> And if you want to know that I eat like shit on Sundays, please feel free
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Anyone else get an email from feedspot.info to betatest their service?
<snap-l> Wondering if I signed up with them earlier
<snap-l> hmm.
<greg-g> snap-l: I got that, too
<greg-g> very badly formatted html, they had
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-10
<jrwren> i used to use a cookie manager.
<jrwren> i don't recall its name
<rick_h> ugh, note to self...your son uses pull ups at bed time. Do not remove them from the camper or you will have to leave and go to the store at 10pm at night
<snap-l> rick_h: Ugh indeed
<snap-l> I swear the only way we'll get true patent reform is if there are container ships of both Apple, Samsung, and HTC phones blockading the US shipping lanes because they can't enter the country
<jrwren> "alright boy, its time to man up. don't piss yourself in your sleep tonight. K?"
<snap-l> Good morning
<jrwren> good morning!
<snap-l> vim 7.4 was released
<jrwren> anything interesting in there?
<snap-l> Finally, after more than a thousand patches, there is a new version of Vim. This is mostly a bug-fix release. Also, many runtime files have been improved, syntax highlighting and indenting works better. To find out the details, do ":help version7.4" after installing it.
<snap-l> Not seeing a changelog or anything
<snap-l> "Project manager Needed! the job is reliable and nice pay...email us nw "
<snap-l> Sounds legit
 * derekv watches mdlug on google hangout
<derekv> they are talking about mug heh
 * derekv reads about implementing rule engines in haskel
<derekv> michael lucus discussing dnssec live https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/64f02c64d1cdaf07c6b72c31fa96524ef9aee43884 at mdlug
<derekv> my pgp is weak ... wounder if i even would be able to find the revocation for every key i have on the keyserver
<nezsez> anyone home?
<derekv> http://dnssec.vs.uni-due.de/ dns-sec enabled
<derekv> ok now whycome ipv6 no worky now
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-11
<snap-l> howdy
<jrwren> sup sup?
<snap-l> getting food
<rick_h> evening
<brousch> Frickin awesome day. We went to a model rockt launch event
<brousch> Some of them were frickin like missiles
<rick_h> awesome
<rick_h> I want to do those when the boy is older
<brousch> There were about 50 people, and probably 40 launches
<brousch> We launched ours 3 times
<rick_h> sweet
<brousch> Really friendly and inviting community there too
 * WARNING ***SYSTEM should not allow the use of this nick!***
<ERROR> *** SYSTEM CRITICAL ***
<snap-l> uh huh
<snap-l> Almost evening. :)
<rick_h> ugh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-04
<cmaloney> Yeah, we were mentioning this at CHC
<cmaloney> We'll get started in a few minutes
<cmaloney> so let's do a quick roll-call to see who all is here?
<cmaloney> Oooooookay.
<cmaloney> Well, not much has changed since last month
<cmaloney> other than we're closer to Ohio Linuxfest than we were last month.
<cmaloney> Still need to send a note to the Ohio group to coordinate if we're going to do OLF together
<cmaloney> Aside: Anyone going to OLF
<cmaloney> ?
<gamerchick02> i'm here
<gamerchick02> wasn't planning on it....
<gamerchick02> sorry. Poirot is on
<cmaloney> Well, I can't compete with the Belgian Detective
<gamerchick02> hah
<cmaloney> I guess we'll just leave it as "more details forthcoming" and "hope y'all have a great summer. :)
<cmaloney> I think ther'es  Global Jam in the works for September
<cmaloney> More info as it comes available.
<cmaloney> Other than that I've got nothing
<cmaloney> and unless someone has anything elase we'll call the meeting adjourned. :)
<cmaloney> Feel free to post anything that might be meeting-related here or on the mailing list. :)
<gamerchick02> ooo
<gamerchick02> i have nothing, sorry
<waf> anyone know of someone who'd be interested in part-time sysadmin (Amazon EC2, linux/windows) work? It'd basically be "emergency-only" work during the daytime (no night-time work) like restarting a service if it goes down.
<cmaloney> define "daytime" ;)
<waf> probably 10am to 8pm or so? though that's negotiable. my company (jetabroad) is in UTC+7, so anything that's "late night" for the US would be mid-day for UTC+7, so the US sysadmin wouldn't have to worry about it.
<waf> and vice versa, which is why we're looking for someone in the US :)
<rick_h__> party
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> brousch: You're the first video I've seen from PyOhio
<brousch> They sat in draft mode for almost a week
<cmaloney> Can you see the non-published videos?
<brousch> If you have the URL
<cmaloney> Ah
<brousch> Hm, still not announced on nextdayvideo's twitter
<brousch> Still not on pyvideo.org either
<brousch> Weird
<cmaloney> I found your kivy talk on Pyvideo
<brousch> Yeah, but it's not listed on recent videos and neither is PyOhio
<cmaloney> http://www.pyvideo.org/category/52/pyohio-2014
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/jdqKNs - pyvideo.org - PyOhio 2014
<brousch> And if they're not up now, it's gonna be a while since nextdayvideo is doing australia's pycon
<cmaloney> Yeah
<brousch> Heh, I'm all alone!
<nullspace> well it looks I'll have an extra ticket to derbycon this year
<cmaloney> nullspace: Cool
<cmaloney> Also: Welcome back. :)
<nullspace> good to be back
<ColonelPanic001> Damnit cmaloney I just looked at your profile on dgs for the first time, accidently clicked
<ColonelPanic001> saw your photo and laughed in a cube farm
<brousch> What's so funny?
<ColonelPanic001> http://www.dragongoserver.net/userpic/73785.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Xn5y4b - image/jpeg
<greg-g> it is a good photo
<ColonelPanic001> it is
<ColonelPanic001> I just didn't expect any photo, I misclicked meaning to read a message from him
<ColonelPanic001> instead, BAM
<brousch> I don't see the humor. Is there something in the background I'm missing?
<ColonelPanic001> mustache Craig
<greg-g> dense brousch is dense
<brousch> That is his normal face
<ColonelPanic001> or he just thinks cmaloney normally looks kinda funny and is desensitized
<ColonelPanic001> also cmaloney kicked my ass in this last go game
<ColonelPanic001> I do not like seeing all these books about how to play go on his goodreads list
<brousch> Hm, maybe I am ready for you now
<ColonelPanic001> >:-|
<cmaloney> Heh. :)
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: orly?
<cmaloney> I didn't think I did terribly well in that game.
<ColonelPanic001> you won, and really after I started losing the advantage, I thought it just went continuously downhill for me
<cmaloney> I have at least a few dead stones in there
<cmaloney> I'd consider d6 dead, as well as j9 and h9
<ColonelPanic001> or maybe I just think that because I lost - I'm still pretty new in terms of skill, maybe I'm not a great judge
<cmaloney> And the right corner was likely open season on me. ;)
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: I thought you were a master
<ColonelPanic001> I've been playing for years
<ColonelPanic001> but sometimes one game per year
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<cmaloney> yeah, this has been the largest number of games that I've played consecutively.
<ColonelPanic001> same
<ColonelPanic001> I'm glad we're both learning from the best
<Zimdale> Hello
<ColonelPanic001> Hi
<Zimdale> How goes it?
<ColonelPanic001> okay
<brousch> How goes what?
<Zimdale> it brousch
<Zimdale> it
<ColonelPanic001> don't you know about it, brousch?
<brousch> Sorry, I'm out of it
<Zimdale> *badumpish*
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: heh
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: We're learning from the best teacher out there: experience.
<cmaloney> I'm hoping to get JoDee to play Go, but she really doesn't care for abstract games.
<brousch> I'm playing a game against some random guy and doing pretty well
<brousch> cmaloney: Tell her it is stars vs dark matter
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, I don't think my wife would get into go at all
<ColonelPanic001> yes
<ColonelPanic001> or light side vs dark side of the force
<ColonelPanic001> winner throws little rocks at the loser
<cmaloney> Apparently Reversi put such a bad taste in her mouth that she has a hard time with anything that's even remotely close.
<cmaloney> I bought GIPF and she wouldn't even touch it
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<cmaloney> Though she did like DVONN and ZERTZ
<cmaloney> YINSH was a similar tale though: as soon as she saw reversible pieces she withdrew.
<brousch> cmaloney ColonelPanic001 Question: why would this guy pass now? http://www.dragongoserver.net/game.php?gid=918382
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/zWcd65 - DGS - Game #918382,46
<brousch> Is he giving up?
<ColonelPanic001> I guess so, weird
<ColonelPanic001> he shouldn't be passing, afaik
<ColonelPanic001> passing is basically "There is no move I can do to damage your position or improve mine"
<ColonelPanic001> and there's plenty to do
<ColonelPanic001> he even has you in double atari in the bottom middle of that big shape
<brousch> Yeah, it is not close to done
<brousch> I'll just beat on him some more
<ColonelPanic001> I would
<widox> wow, that's a fugly site
<brousch> widox: hehe
<cmaloney> I'm not experienced enough to know why he's passing.
<cmaloney> Though your positions on the right side of the board are pretty weak
<cmaloney> May want to ask what's up? Plead ignorance. :)
<brousch> Well the site matched us based on skill level, which is non-existent
<cmaloney> Yeah, I've never done anything re: the ranking
<cmaloney> I honestly have NFC what my ranking would be.
<ColonelPanic001> I had one on KGS back when I went on there
<ColonelPanic001> but that was a few years ago at least
<ColonelPanic001> widox: and yes, DGS is utter crap, except I can have some sort of mobile client
<brousch> It's not crap. It's pre-AJAX
<cmaloney> Thing is it works
<cmaloney> even though it looks like a pre-1999 site.
<jrwren> ajax was 1997
<jrwren> err, 1998, sorry.
<brousch> Yeah, but it doesn't count until Google uses it
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/2cl70r/anyone_want_a_game_review_3k_or_under_please/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Xmn4iX - Anyone want a game review? (3k or under please) : baduk
<cmaloney> If you guys want to have our games reviewed you have my permission. :)
<brousch> So when a player passes, is it proper etiquette to keep beating on them as long as I can?
<brousch> cmaloney has passed, but the game is very close
<brousch> Message from the passing guy: "No, I've already won - all Black groups are dead. But we can play it out if you prefer - I'll be passing as often as I can."
<brousch> I feel like I am about to take his huge snake, so it seems strange to me
<cmaloney> brousch: There is no contention on the left.
<cmaloney> The only thing that will happen is I'll slowly lose liberties.
<cmaloney> You've won. There is no need to continue. :)
<cmaloney> I am very tempted to take over this guy's Amazon account that is using my gmail address
<cmaloney> and order him something goofy with a gift message of "please change your email address"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-05
<cmaloney> Evening, btw.
<rick_h__> morning
<brousch> cmaloney: The guy in this other Go game is talking about eyes. I guess it's time to read a strategy guide
<brousch> Oh this is lovely http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/14/08/05/0344244/synolocker-0-day-ransomware-puts-nas-files-at-risk
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/fqzdA8 - Synolocker 0-Day Ransomware Puts NAS Files At Risk - Slashdot
<jrwren> your fault for running synology instead of building your own linux nas like a good linux user.
<jrwren> :p j/k
<brousch> Well I'm not fool enough to expose it to the Internet
<brousch> jrwren: Your comment is not a joke on many other Linux forums
<jrwren> I know. :(  Its one of the reasons that I'm not a proud community member.
<jrwren> I hear they function as pretty good routers too. The dual nic synologies that is.
<nullspace> I've seen tons of embedded device vulenablities
<jrwren> nullspace: me too. I usually see it in cheap crap routers or stuff which was never meant to be internet facing.
<jrwren> Synology has a good reputation and is considered to a higher grade than competetors. I rarely see such vulnerabilities in the higher rep stuff.
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, there's much more under the surface of a go game than meets the "eye"
<cmaloney> I'd recommend picking up "Beginning Go" as a good starting point
<cmaloney> The "So You Want To Play Go" series is good as well, but is pretty chatty and doesn't tend to go too far in depth at the beginner levels.
<jrwren> You might say it takes a minute to learn and a lifetime to master.
<cmaloney> If you wanted to be a cheezy commercial for a game, yes.
<nullspace> jrwren: way to quote the tag line for othelloe
<cmaloney> Which is anything but a game that takes a lifetime to master. :)
<cmaloney> brousch: Seriously, this game is fin. :)
<cmaloney> Those stones are dead dead dead
<cmaloney> All we're doing is taking territory from the final score.
<brousch> I guess there was less on the left than I thought
<cmaloney> Yeah, and the stones in the corner were dead
<cmaloney> That's what your other game is trying to teach you.
<brousch> Well my other game says half of the board is dead even though it's open space
<cmaloney> link?
<brousch> So the scoring has me confused again
<brousch> How did I get 30? 10 prisoners + 16 territories = 30?
<brousch> ah, I get 2*<your dead stones>?
<cmaloney> 16 + 4 (dead stones) + 10
<cmaloney> yep
<brousch> It's in the other column, so that's not obvious
<cmaloney> Yeah, those are essentially prisoners
<brousch> Here's the other game http://www.dragongoserver.net/game.php?gid=918382
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/zWcd65 - DGS - Game #918382,59
<brousch> He tells me all of the black groups are dead, but is playing through it with me and giving comments
<cmaloney> The group on the left is dead
<brousch> Ah, you can see the comments
<cmaloney> You're depriving yourself of liberties with each move.
<cmaloney> No, that's what I'm seeing. :)
<cmaloney> All he needs to do is fill in F1, and you're fucked.
<cmaloney> or g1 if you play at f1
<cmaloney> It may take a little longer for the top group to get surrounded but there's little you can do to get out of that situation.
<brousch> If I get a8 and f3 first, it will destroy the whole thing
<cmaloney> Though I'm not sure the top ggroup is dead.
<cmaloney> You can't.
<brousch> I'm sure he will fill f3 when I get a8, but still possible
<cmaloney> All he needs is to fill in f3 and you're fucked.
<cmaloney> Yeah, and you can't play there otherwise.
<cmaloney> so he's correct. You're fucked.
<brousch> I need 0 handicap so when I win it will not feel weak
<cmaloney> Sure. Feel free to ignore that invite
<brousch> I disputed it
<cmaloney> Though there's no shame in handicap. :)
<brousch> It is not a true win with handicap
<cmaloney> Suit yourself. :)
<brousch> Have you begun reading the Go books yet?
<cmaloney> Yeah, I've been leafing through them
<cmaloney> Have also been schooled by GnuGo on occasion. :)
<brousch> GnuGo whoops me
<cmaloney> Yeah, you have to set the level pretty low
<cmaloney> It's not a perfect player (skilled players can whoop it pretty easily) but it is brutal to beginners
<cmaloney> brousch: http://shop.gogameguru.com/so-you-want-to-play-go-1/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/t700pJ - So You Want to Play Go?
<brousch> I finally see how all of my stones are doomed in that other game.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it takes a little bit of practice, but it'll become apparent.
<cmaloney> This is why there are a lot of .sgf imports in programs; to play out "what-if" scenarios.
<cmaloney> in chess it seemed a bit overkill, but in go it's crucial
<brousch> I can go about 4 moves in my head
<cmaloney> You're better than I. I look at the board anew each move.
<brousch> I do that too, but try to look at possibilities a few moves ahead. I don't usually succeed though
<brousch> And it's pretty useless early on
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h__> howdy
<widox> hey hey
<cmaloney> Hey rick_h__
<cmaloney> Or should we say "Guten Tag"?
<rick_h__> guten aben
<greg-g> hello from London
<cmaloney> greg-g: You too?
 * cmaloney is feeling the moss growing
<cmaloney> Also: Probably not the best day to be a Justin.tv subscriber.
<cmaloney> http://justin.tv/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/1ESDp - Goodbye from Justin.tv
<cmaloney> "The Justin.tv website, mobile apps, and APIs are no longer in service. Thank you sincerely for seven years of live video memories."
<cmaloney> AKA: Thanks for seven years of content that we could use to leverage our buyout
<greg-g> cmaloney: here for Wikimania
<jrwren> huh... sad that justin.tv shutdown.
<jrwren> they own twitch.tv, which is THRIVING to say the least.
<jrwren> seems like they could have spun justin.tv off
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-06
<cmaloney> Nobody wants that
<cmaloney> Apparently it's just a place for folks to do 24/7 copyright infringement
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> yessir
<cmaloney> That it is
<_jame_> indeed, it is...
<greg-g> afternoon
<cmaloney> greg-g: Showoff.
<jrwren> Good morning.
<ColonelPanic001> grumbe grumble firefox
<ColonelPanic001> always downloads pdfs now instead of using pdf.js
<ColonelPanic001> there's no way this could be my fault
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Bring the Noise (feat. Public Enemy) by Anthrax on Return of the Killer A's
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Ball of Confusion by Anthrax on Return of the Killer A's
<cmaloney> I <3 this cover
<jrwren> !np
<jrwren> .np
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Vandemar by Joachim Witt on Neil Gaiman - Where's Neil When You Need Him?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-07
<bbwsubbie> hello everyone
<brousch> cmaloney: I'm enjoying this Go game
<cmaloney> brousch: Cool. :)
<cmaloney> I'm finding more enjoyment in playing go than I have in playing chess.
<cmaloney> Chess to me feels like a solved problem, or at least a series of opening moves that play out better than others.
<cmaloney> Though JoDee and her sister are playing "chess" with friends.
<cmaloney> so I've heard stories about "horsie", "the castle", and "the diagonal thingie"
<brousch> I have not played much chess
<cmaloney> Friend from high schoool named his machines after famous chess players
<cmaloney> Alekhine, Kasparov
<cmaloney> he was better than I was so I didn't provide much challenge for him
<cmaloney> played against several chess computers.
<cmaloney> Of course there were the off-the-shelf cheap chess computers from Excalibur that played incredibly naive chess at the lower levels, and took a lifetime to make a move at the higher levels. :)
<jrwren> http://www.tickld.com/x/why-you-should-never-drunk-text-a-doctor-who-fa
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/kPEbiA - Why You Should Never Drunk Text A Doctor Who Fan. This Is Priceless
<cmaloney> That seems canned
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Sadly I think a lot of that equipment was still in use when I was there.
<cmaloney> was re: https://www.flickr.com/photos/waynestateuniversity/14664659259/in/photostream/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/08utq2 - Engineering students in laboratory, circa 1970s | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: didn't know you went to wayne
<cmaloney> I worked there at the CoE
<cmaloney> under Cliff Stallings
<ColonelPanic001> ah, neat
<ColonelPanic001> I've only been in the building twice. CS dept. was part of the college of liberal arts and sciences until after I graduated
<cmaloney> When were you a student there?
<ColonelPanic001> 2004-2008
<ColonelPanic001> hired in C&IT in 2011
<cmaloney> Ah, long after I was there.
<ColonelPanic001> worked here 2011 - death
 * cmaloney worked there from 1993ish to 1995.
<ColonelPanic001> know any of the Thompson brothers?
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Didn't know you died yet.
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: eventually, if my plans for immortallity don't work out
<cmaloney> I know of the Thompson Twins. ;)
<cmaloney> But yeah, that's ringing a bell
<cmaloney> got a photo?
<ColonelPanic001> I hope they do, though, because it'd be a huge waste of all this Blood of the Innocent
<ColonelPanic001> hm, hang on, trying to remember which works over there
<ColonelPanic001> I don't even know if he was there back then.
<ColonelPanic001> there's five of them working in the university, four of them currently in C&IT.
<ColonelPanic001> rob, david, michael, arg, who else?
<cmaloney> Ah, we didn't do much with C&IT
<ColonelPanic001> there's one that's been over there a while, but who knows back then
<ColonelPanic001> Ah, Brian, I think it is
<cmaloney> Brian Thompson? That name rings many a bell
<cmaloney> Dude was a fucking electronics wiz.
<ColonelPanic001> that may be him. I don't really know him personally
<ColonelPanic001> his brother, Rob, is my boss
<ColonelPanic001> David is more or less "lateral" from me in another group
<ColonelPanic001> same more or less for Michael
<ColonelPanic001> the three I know are all great guys though, pretty bright. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Brian was an "electronics wiz"
<cmaloney> Yeah, though I was witness to some funny stuff
<ColonelPanic001> (mildly) amusing story from Penguicon. One year I just had met a girl-i-know-in-high-school's boyfriend. I mentioned I worked at wsu (not even what division, etc). He says "Oh neat. Do you know Rob Thompson?"
<cmaloney> Like the time they hooked a hard drive to a variable power supply.
<ColonelPanic001> it was a little twilight-zone-ish
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<cmaloney> pro-tip: Chips can heat up enough to blow the top off of them.
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<cmaloney> Not to mention the electrical arcing
<ColonelPanic001> this does sound like a thompson
<cmaloney> God, fun times
<cmaloney> Student-rate employment but man that was a great job
<cmaloney> learned me a great UNIX there.
<rick_h__> party party
<rick_h__> one more day then HOLIDAY!
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Awesome!
<ColonelPanic001> holiday?
<rick_h__> bah, vacation, damn europeans messing with me
<ColonelPanic001> I suspected that translation
<cmaloney> hol-i-dayyyyyy
<ColonelPanic001> but thought maybe I missed something
<ColonelPanic001> I have a day off next week, but not for holiday stuff. Just doctory stuff. Not nearly as fun
<ColonelPanic001> saving up vacation time for November, when I'll be gone for weeks
<ColonelPanic001> and will probably start freaking out from lack of office
<cmaloney> I can honestly say there haven't been many times I freaked out due to lack of office
<ColonelPanic001> I get bored
<ColonelPanic001> just not used to it
<ColonelPanic001> my honeymoon was probably the first time since I was 16 I had more than a week off of work||school
<cmaloney> Try unemployment sometime.
<cmaloney> It's the weirdest thing. Suddenly the weekends don't mean quite so much.
<cmaloney> 'cept you get to hang out with your working friends.
<ColonelPanic001> I sorta tried once - when I was switching jobs, I tried to start a week after I'd leave the current one. They were pushy about starting sooner :\
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, I don't imagine it's fun
<cmaloney> Let's just say I watched way too much Jerry Springer
<cmaloney> religiously.
<ColonelPanic001> as long as that time went to good use, then
<cmaloney> Yep. Had all the time in the world to cure cancer and make the world a better place
<cmaloney> but said "fuck it" and watched the world burn
<ColonelPanic001> oh good, I have this lump, may as well ask you abo... oh
 * ColonelPanic001 zips up again then
<cmaloney> Have you always had it?
<ColonelPanic001> it's the weirdest thing - yes, and there's two of them
<cmaloney> Hairy?
<ColonelPanic001> my god, you *are* an expert
<cmaloney> I think you'll be fine. You're just an ass. :)
<ColonelPanic001> terminally
<cmaloney> Well, it was either that or a male.
<cmaloney> Depending on which way the moon goes.
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<brousch> I feel like I could get so many projects done if I was unemployed during the school year
<ColonelPanic001> I always think that, but then I have a week off and I don't do crap
<cmaloney> ++
<ColonelPanic001> "oh man if I had six months without work I'd do so much cool stuff and work on some open source stuff, etc"
<ColonelPanic001> never happens
<brousch> You just sit around and wank all day?
<ColonelPanic001> mostly
<cmaloney> Have to eat sometime
<ColonelPanic001> I mean, eventually
<rick_h__> evening
<brousch> Incorrect. It is 3:30pm in this channel
<rick_h__> :P
<rick_h__>  /time
<rick_h__> 19:31             Freenoderajaniemi.freenode.net Thursday August 7 2014 -- 19:31:18 +00:00
<rick_h__> hmm, seems 7:31pm to me
<rick_h__> in this channel :P
<brousch> No. This channel is for Michigan. You will abide by Michigan time here.
<rick_h__> but I asked the channel what time it was?
<brousch> I'm hooking electronic components to my RPi and controlling them with Python. This is fun and a different use of PYthon for me
<jrwren> brousch: YAY!
<brousch> Hm, maybe I can get this working as a tent security system for camping tomorrow
<brousch> I have a passive IR motion sensor that triggers a camera right now. Need to add a flash for night time
<greg-g> what's the word for unstated/ignored problems that... sacred cows, thanks
<brousch> Random thought: Why do they not offer child care in movie theaters?
<greg-g> brousch: million dollar idea there
<brousch> You watch a movie while your kid plays/watches some other movie. Give the parent a vibrating pager for emergencies (to discourage constant phone checking)
<brousch> I really don't see why this isn't a thing. Hardest part would be lining up correct number of sitters, but I think there would be plenty of full time licensed day care providers who would want to moonlight regularly.
<brousch> Require a reservation to use the service and you know how many sitters you need
<greg-g> Do you think people would do that instead of getting a sitter so they can also go out for a quick dinner before hand?
<greg-g> or whatever
<brousch> Yeah, often I just want to watch a movie and don't care about dinner
<brousch> Finding a sitter for 3 hours can be annoying
<greg-g> yeah
<brousch> And then you have to monitor your phone in case there's a problem
<greg-g> yeah
<brousch> I think you could do it for roughly the price of a movie ticket per kid
<jrwren> brousch: great idea!
<jrwren> I find night care in general to be lacking in teh world.
<jrwren> we have day care, why not night care?
<brousch> Apparently 2 theater chains out west were doing it a few years ago
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-08
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> (now). :)
<waf> score! http://notepadconf.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/dLH840 - NotepadConf
 * rick_h__ is afriad to click
<waf> anyone know if iOS has speech-to-text built into the OS? like android does
<waf> my 30 seconds of googling didn't turn up much. i see you can use it in siri, but not sure about $any_given_text_field
<brousch> waf: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/16/extensive-list-of-siris-dictation-commands-for-iphone-4s/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/kGTnj - Extensive List of Siri's Dictation Commands for iPhone 4S - Mac Rumors
<brousch> "The new speech-to-text service allows users to press a microphone on the keyboard in any application and then utilize Siri's speech recognition to enter text. "
<waf> prefct, thanks. not sure why my google-fu was failing
<waf> *perfect
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Yesterdays Assholes (are the Idols of Today) by riot agents
<greg-g> watching Terminator 2 in the hotel, why would he need a torque wrench?
<jrwren> lol.
<greg-g> (yes, that's the logical inconsistency I'm picking out right now)
<cmaloney> Man, I am never buying mp3 files online ever again
<greg-g> flac or gtfo
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Mother War by Decapitated on Nihility
<cmaloney> Just got the CD and it sounds so much better
<cmaloney> had the Amazon / 7 digital version for a while
<cmaloney> not sure which, but it doesn't matter
 * cmaloney is slowly re-buying his mp3s as CDs.
<cmaloney> Earache had a sale in their store so I've been pillaging that.
<greg-g> that's so legitmate of you :)
<cmaloney> I have no problem re-buying music
 * cmaloney also bought a shit-ton of Babylon 5 soundtrack albums recently.
<jrwren> How many do they have?
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's last track - Businessman (End "Power-Dressed for Success" Remix) by Snog on Your Favourite Electro-Folk-Swingers [8 Aug 2014, 19:18]
<cmaloney> http://christopherfranke.com/soloreleases.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/XvIqHV - Christopher Franke - Albums
<jrwren> I never switched to buying digital.
<jrwren> I always kept on with CD.
<cmaloney> There's 30 of them
<cmaloney> I have 9
<jrwren> I bought 1 thing digital once, just for the novelty of it when ITMS first launched.
<jrwren> '07 ?
<jrwren> how is that possible?
<cmaloney> ?
<jrwren> Babylon 5 was long done at that time.
<cmaloney> There's movies of Babylon 5 still released.
<greg-g> I bought an album from amazon and it was shit quality, like shit. Got a refund.
<jrwren> oh, I had no idea.
<cmaloney> The good thing about Amazon is the track pcicing
<cmaloney> pricing, even
<jrwren> aren't they 0.99$
<cmaloney> So soundscape albums that are one long track are .99
<cmaloney> Yeah
<greg-g> hah
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Golden-Bowls-Compassion-Karma-Moffett/dp/B000A1KE2S
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/X68CBW - Amazon.com: Golden Bowls of Compassion: Music
<cmaloney> Which is about all that album is worth IMHO
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Golden-Bowls-Karma-Moffett/dp/B0007A1FNO/ref=ntt_mus_ep_dpi_1
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-09
<jrwren> cmaloney: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/j-michael-straczynski-wants-to-reboot-babylon-5-as-a-big-budget-movie/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/jrSoZe - Babylon 5 reboot likely to become big-budget film | Ars Technica
<jrwren> cmaloney: how timely!
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, I saw that
<cmaloney> I'm not sure what to think about it
<tony_smlr> http://youtu.be/__Lui4Aq6wQ
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/D9aA3h - SMLR Live Episode 132 - YouTube
<tony-smlr> SMLR Live E132 (8/8/2014) - Video: http://youtu.be/__Lui4Aq6wQ - Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/D9aA3h - SMLR Live Episode 132 - YouTube
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/r4DLeN - application/ogg
<cmaloney> Good morning
<greg-g> afternoon :)
<cmaloney> showoff
<greg-g> I did my talk this morning, so the rest of the weekend is fun time ;)
<cmaloney> Coolness
<rick_h__> party
<greg-g> now in the group of nerds hacking in the venue at 9pm instead of out drinking
<rick_h__> oops, wrong answer greg-g
<greg-g> rick_h__: what, since I'm now a manager I can't hangout with the hackers at night anymore?
<rick_h__> you're supposed to be out socializing and team building :P
<greg-g> bah
<greg-g> ;)
<greg-g> this is team building
<rick_h__> just completed a sprint here and by the EOD brain is too shot for that stuff
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> I'm just giving you grief
<rick_h__> where are you at?
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> :P
<greg-g> London
<rick_h__> oh dude, get down by the river at night
<rick_h__> MUCH nicer than hacking in a hotel/conference room
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-10
<rick_h__> wheeee
<rick_h__> wifi at 100mph on a train through Germany
 * cmaloney finally created a RAID1 on his system
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/2cyk9l/the_curse_of_vim/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/CjcJGN - Too Many Requests
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<skellat> cmaloney: Are you busy?
<cmaloney> skellat: What's up?
<skellat> cmaloney: Gonna make it south to Ohio Linux Fest?  OLF organizers are getting insistent on us providing a speakers roster for an UbuCon if we still want one and anybody we've asked have begged off.
<cmaloney> I was just looking at their site and haven't seen anywhere to register. :)
<cmaloney> Re: Ubucon: when is it?
<skellat> cmaloney: UbuCon would be Friday, October 24th
<skellat> cmaloney: OLF whole event would be October 24-26
<skellat> cmaloney: I have a suspicion that Ubuntu Ohio is going to withdraw from presenting UbuCon as we've had quite a number of potential speakers turning us down
<brousch> ubucon?
<skellat> brousch: UbuCon is typically an *buntu-themed component to a Linux event that a LoCo often sponsors and puts on.  The Ohio LoCo is coming up empty trying to plan & schedule one for Ohio Linux Fest 2014 unless we manage to secure an entire roster of speakers in roughly one hour's time.
<brousch> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-03
<waldo323> Good evening
<gamerchick02> howdy
<waldo323> Is there a meeting tonight?
<gamerchick02> there's supposed to be but i think cmaloney is still on the road from pyOhio
<gamerchick02> ok no meeting for now. i think i'm gonna go analogue and read a book in bed. see everyone later
<jrwren> what book?
<cscheib> win 7
<cscheib> ugh, always do that.
<_stink_> haha, look at the radar
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Just got home
<cmaloney> jrwren: Thank you. :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, I just got home so there's no real meeting tonight.
<cmaloney> About the only thing that is on the radar is Ohio Linuxfest
<cmaloney> not sure who all is going to OLF
<cmaloney> Morning
<brousch> yes
<cmaloney> Heh
<cscheib> OLF would be cooler if it weren't for the O
<cmaloney> Ohio isn't so bad
<cmaloney> we just got back from PyOhio
<brousch> Michigan washes the Ohio off of us every year when we return
<brousch> I'm sorry, but if your name is James Bond, every talk you give should be spy-themed http://www.oreilly.com/pub/e/3484?imm_mid=0d5e80&cmp=em-na-webcast-info-webcast_20150803
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-04
<jrwren> cmaloney: you might like this: https://scalibq.wordpress.com/2015/08/02/8088-mph-the-final-version/
<SneakyPhil> hello
<brousch> yo
<SneakyPhil> does everyone here run ubuntu in prod or is this just an ubuntu fan channel?
<jrwren> SneakyPhil: by in prod, you mean server or cloudimg, right?
<jrwren> SneakyPhil: yes. for at least 3yrs that has been my thing.
<_stink_> hi SneakyPhil
<brousch> jrwren: You scared him away by being to awesome
<brousch> too
<jrwren> *shrug*
<SneakyPhil> cool, thanks jrwren
<SneakyPhil> we run Centos 6/7, Debian 7/8, and one Ubuntu server that needs to be migrated out
<SneakyPhil> for personal/work laptop use ubuntu is the way to go
<jrwren> SneakyPhil: for server, ubuntu cloudimg is the way to go :)
<SneakyPhil> cent 7 for our hosts and then ubuntu for the docker containers
<jrwren> darned shame if ya ask me. :)
<SneakyPhil> :P
<jrwren> hey, its better than no ubuntu.
<jrwren> I think I'd go back to windows if I had to use rhel or centos exclusively
 * SneakyPhil pats jrwren on the back
<SneakyPhil> it's not THAT bad
<SneakyPhil> this laptop runs 14.04
<SneakyPhil> dual monitors, audio, steam games, netflix
<SneakyPhil> mostly like apple, it just works
<jrwren> centos... its pretty bad.
<jrwren> curl linked to gnutls so cert auth doesn't work with common cert formats, wtf?!?
<jrwren> its the little things
<jrwren> and they add up
<jrwren> and I've no tollerance for it.
<spaceburrito> SneakyPhil: "mostly like apple" just without all of the nasty proprietary culture :)
<SneakyPhil> spaceburrito: :)
<SneakyPhil> haven't run into an issue with curl and gnutls yet
<jrwren> most folks don't use cert auth
<jrwren> it sok.
<jrwren> i know I'm insane.
<cscheib> http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2015/08/police_chase_ends_in_grosse_po.html
<cscheib> that's certainly the most exciting thing to happen in my neighborhood since Bashara
<spaceburrito> nothing exciting ever happens over here. Except that earthquake a while back
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-05
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> How goes?
<rick_h_> party party!
<rick_h_> a.k.a. everything is broken
<cmaloney> rick_h_: that sucks
<rick_h_> naw, it'll gte fixed
<rick_h_> get that is
<cmaloney> Yeah, but until then it sucks. :)
<rick_h_> how goes things down south?
<cmaloney> Doing well
<rick_h_> pyohio go off awesomely?
<cmaloney> just wrapping up things with $client
<brousch> PyOhio was excellent
<cmaloney> Last data load
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> on both accounts
<cmaloney> Yeah, PyOhio was really good
<cmaloney> Mike Pirnat asked how you were
<brousch> Watch the K Lars Lohn talk if nothing else
<cmaloney> as did Eric F. (not attempting to spell name correctly)
<rick_h_> yea, :( second year in a row missing
<cmaloney> Well, Mike P. missed last year so it's all good
<cmaloney> You're allowed one missed year. After that Eric starts hunting you down.
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> He talked to me about a PyMI conference within 5 minutes of my arrival
<cmaloney> brousch: I think he gave up with me
<rick_h_> hah!
<rick_h_> he never gives up
<cmaloney> Mentioned he needed a reason to come up to Michigan.
<cmaloney> a good reason
<rick_h_> beer not enough? wtf
<cmaloney> Apparently noyt
<cmaloney> they have our beer at Meijer
<cmaloney> who knew?
<brousch> They have Meijer?
<cmaloney> They do
<cmaloney> in Bowling Green at least
<cmaloney> I used their restroom
<brousch> Well shoot, what's left?
<cmaloney> National Coney
<brousch> Beaches!
<brousch> On a lake that doesn't catch fire and sprout toxic blooms
<cmaloney> Hah
<cmaloney> I do love that "National Coney Island" is only in southern Michigan
<brousch> PyMI will be held in Sleeping Bear Dunes.
<cmaloney> Southeast MI at that
<cmaloney> brousch: I wouldn't mind that one iota
<cmaloney> Haven't been there since I was a kid
<brousch> I have a vision of a family-friendly conference in West MI in summer. Bring your spouse and family. They can visit museums, beach, gardens, etc while you geek out at the conference. Wine and beer afterwards
<brousch> But it will never happen due to lack of time
<cmaloney> brousch: You're already organizing most of west MI
<brousch> Oh no, I only run the GRPUG now
<brousch> And CoNGA-WM, but that's really no work
<brousch> I do some parts of WMMakers too, but not a lot
<brousch> BarCampGR
<brousch> The biggest problem is it would have to be july/august for the beaches, and those months are full of conferences already
<cmaloney> yeah
<_stink_> brousch only runs one thing, plus three other things
<brousch> Yes, much lighter load than I used to have, which is good because my work situation changed to not allow me to do as much during the day
<brousch> We could think about doing it during ArtPrize, but it would have to be in Holland or farther away
<brousch> cmaloney: Are you still tight with your Alma Mater?
<cmaloney> brousch: Not particularly.
<brousch> OK,t hat's enough thinking about it for now
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> I heard the children's museum thing is open in detroit again
<brousch> http://www.mi-sci.org/
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's cool.
<_stink_> yeah i'm volunteering with them
<_stink_> it's a neat place
<_stink_> very lean staff
<brousch> We went there like 3 months before it closed
<_stink_> in terms of numbers.  i cannot speak to girth.
<brousch> I'm supposed to arrange a family trip to Tha D for the ford/zoo/science center this fall
<cmaloney> brousch: orly?
<jrwren> brousch: awesome! are your kids not in school?
<brousch> Yes. I promised we would go back to the ford since we couldn't see the village or many regular exhibits at makerfaire. And I said we'd visit the science center when it re-opened, and we're supposed to go to the zoo each year, but we didn't go last year
<brousch> jrwren: It would be a weekend, or two
<jrwren> brousch: cool, cool.
<SneakyPhil> good morning guys
<jrwren> good morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
 * cmaloney is listening to Herrschaft - Kimi Ga Yo
<cmaloney> jrwren: ^
<cmaloney> https://herrschaft.bandcamp.com/album/les-12-vertiges
<brousch> cmaloney: I found a good station on Google Music Radio: Grindcore's Death Trip Radio
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> where can i buy pay as you go mifi?
<rick_h_> good luck
<rick_h_> it's too $$ in the US
<rick_h_> tmobile might have one but not sure
<jrwren> ugh
<rick_h_> I tried it with verizon/att and it was waaaay $$$
<jrwren> yeah, i just looked. tmob has it, but its not cheap and pay as you go you have to buy the device which is ~$125
<jrwren> which is about $100 more than I wanted to spend total :)
<cscheib> jrwren: maybe going to A2 again tomorrow, if I don't have to go to Southfield instead
<jrwren> cscheib: awesome!  lunch?
<cscheib> yup
<cscheib> I'll text/IRC/whatever when I know wtf is happening
<jrwren> cool
<jrwren> jcastro, kdub either of you tentatively want to join?
<jrwren> n0p: ?
<jrwren> I wonder if there are any ohter AA area folks that I don't know about
<jcastro> maybe? I have to see what my car situation is
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: I am in AA, however I have meetings starting at 1PM on the northeast corner of town.
<cscheib> some tool mis-wired the SAS loop on a Data Domain, so my A2 plan is only tentative right now
<cscheib> may have to run and fix that.
<DrDaemonEye> cool.
<cscheib> didn't know n0p was idling on here, even
<cscheib> haven't seen him in years
<cmaloney> jrwren: I would recommend Ting but it's not good for out of the country
<cmaloney> https://ting.com/shop/sim
<cmaloney> They do allow tethering on phones that support it
<jrwren> DrDaemonEye: hey, I'm in the NE corner of town :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: $$$ becuase I have to buy the mifi
<cmaloney> jrwren: Right, but you could get an $80 phone
<cmaloney> and use that
<cmaloney> (3G though. $164 for a Mifi unit)
<kdub> jrwren, tentatively yes
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: oh really?  where abouts, may I ask?
<jrwren> DrDaemonEye: a short walk from Traverwood Library, or a longer walk from Plymouth Rd/Traverwood Rd intersection
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: nice.  I'm over at Green and Plymoth.
<jrwren> DrDaemonEye: cool!
<DrDaemonEye> yeah.  good area, but one heck of a commute for me... I live over on the west side
<jrwren> DrDaemonEye: ah yeah, that is a trek. its not far, but with traffic and no direct roads, UGH
<n0p> jrwren: cscheib: yeah, lmk if/where/when you guys are going
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: yeah... Once I get up onto Broadway and then over to Plymoth Rd, it gets better.
<jrwren> DrDaemonEye: sure. with huron under construction, the comute home must really suck.
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: It is actually not bad... I take broadway all the way down to miller, then over to Maple.
<DrDaemonEye> Actually, I cut through the waterhill neighborhood, as I am in North Waterhill.
<jrwren> DrDaemonEye: i was picking my daughter up from summer camps downtown at 5pm a few weeks ago and that part was terrible
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: That it is.  It is part of the reason I take the bus most of the time.
<jrwren> I don't know where that is.
<jrwren> ah, yeah, bus rules.
<DrDaemonEye> Waterhill neighborhood?
<jrwren> yeah.
<DrDaemonEye> It's up in the area of Newport, Miller, and M-14
<jrwren> oh, is it called htat because the reservoir is there?
<DrDaemonEye> Not sure
<DrDaemonEye> But, I am right next to the reservoir.
<jrwren> cool.
<jrwren> its nice up there.
<jrwren> when we were house shopping there was this awesome place for sale, but we couldn't quite afford it.
<DrDaemonEye> yeah... found two rooms in a house for $500/month, all utilities included
<jrwren> WOW! that is a crazy good deal for AA
<DrDaemonEye> yeah... got it through the UMHS Homeshare program
<jrwren> you work for UMHS?
<DrDaemonEye> I don't actually.
<cmaloney> lost cement truck is doing wonders from my UPS radar
<jrwren> cmaloney: hahahaha
<jcastro> rick_h_: I ordered the new Moto G
<cmaloney> jcastro: sweet
<rick_h_> jcastro: cool, I looked at that for my wife but even that one is 4.7" now
<rick_h_> wtf happened to 4" phones?
<brousch> puny
<jrwren> I think its worse in iphone land :(
<jcastro> rick_h_: yeah, normal phones are basically dead
<jcastro> it's all phablets now. :-/
<rick_h_> jcastro: :(
<rick_h_> jcastro: I really want to get the new motox but damn I don't want anything that big
<rick_h_> going to this one was :/
<rick_h_> my poor wife has nothing she likes. Even the sony mini one is like 4.5"?
<jcastro> I'm pretty much over phones
<jcastro> just going to spend the least I can from now on
<rick_h_> heh, I filled up 32gb on mine :/ I use it too much.
<rick_h_> though now that I have my n9 fixed I do use it a lot, but my phone is just always on me
<jrwren> i'm still hoping for iphone7 in a 4S or 5 form factor
<jrwren> and if I don't get that, well then eff it, I'll go 6+ :p
<cscheib> jrwren / n0p / jcastro : gotta go to southfield instead :-/
<cscheib> try again next week
<brousch> Can't you guys force a small ubuntu touch phone?
<jrwren> cscheib: bummer!
<jrwren> brousch: hahahahaha. NO!
<jrwren> brousch: and, the ubuntu phones are small. They are the 4" size IIRC
<brousch> Well what good is knowing all of these Canonical people if they have no power?!
<brousch> Firefox phones are small, and cheap
<jrwren> brousch: i sometimes ask myself, what good is working for Canonical if I have no power. :)
<brousch> Well there's always the money
<jrwren> brousch: bah, I can get that stuff anywhere :)
<rick_h_> we have some power, just not in the places most folks want us to :P
<dzho> seems to me in the handheld space, everyone has been swinging for the bleachers of phones, instead of trying to get some solid baseruns with non-cell tablets.
<dzho> if I could buy a just-turn-off-the-gps-and-rms-might-even-use-it free tablet that could be great.
<dzho> there are RFY wifi routes, so it would be off to the races for all the other work that would need to be done on these.
<dzho> s/routes/routers/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-06
<cmaloney> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/zip/5157295800.html
<cmaloney> greg-g: ^
<brousch> Oooh, free book from packt for volunteering at PyOhio
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> brousch: Nice! Which one did you pick?
<brousch> Nothing yet
<jrwren> lol @ my data usage: 0.25 of unlimited
<cmaloney> jrwren: Overall or for the month, or in the last 5 minutes? :)
<cmaloney> Need a time scale
<brousch> cmaloney: did you get your free o'reilly ebook?
<jrwren> haha, month.
<jrwren> all I have to do is change contract with ATT and I get personal hotspod.
<jrwren> I've been on the grandfathered unlimited data plan for like 4yrs, but I rarely use more than 300MB :)
<cmaloney> brousch: I did, and I didn't read it carefully.
<jrwren> but, If I'm going to switch plans, I might as well get a free phone while I do it.
<cmaloney> Thought it was Python and HDFS, but it's Python and HDF5
<cmaloney> jrwren: No doubt.
<brousch> HDF5?
<jrwren> hahah, cmaloney that is a great confusion.
<jrwren> HDFS v. HDF5  oh man, in my font its pretty bad to distinguish
<cmaloney> brousch: It's a hierarchical data format for science.
<cmaloney> So not all bad
<cmaloney> but not the hadoopy goodness I thought I was getting
<cmaloney> Mea culpa for not reading closer.
<brousch> I have a couple of old Flask projects i need to revisit. I think I'll get a Flask book
<kdub> jrwren, was there still lunch today?
<jrwren> kdub: cscheib canceled on us.
<jrwren> kdub: Want to still meet? we could do it closer to canton.
<jrwren> If only there were something awesome half way between us, but I think it is all fields and new subdivisions
<kdub> jrwren, probably best to reschedule, was trying to dance around a close-to-lunchtime dentist appt
<kdub> are you on the west side of the city?
<jrwren> kdub: nope. I'm on north easy side, so canton center is due east of me.
<jrwren> kdub: http://a.placebetween.us/?search=Coffee&address1=2226%20Placid%20Way%2C%20Ann%20Arbor%2C%20MI&address2=Canton%2C%20MI
<kdub> i'm on the border of canton/superior, so the eastern half of the city is easy to get to
<jrwren> oh, we are actually pretty close for a drive since there is rarely traffic on Plymouth and Ford
<cmaloney> I <3 it when my boss fixes something I was working on and forgets to let me know
<cmaloney> I think he worked on it last night, fixed it, and I just now figured out that he fixed it because I went to the original server to look at the config to see if I could reset to some sane baseline
<brousch> Hm, so I hadn't really looked at Flask in 2 years. It now has skeletons as complicated as Django
<mrgoodcat> thats the way these things go. django and rails didn't set out to become bloated messes, it just happened that way organically over time
<mrgoodcat> eventually something will come along and topple flask as the minimalist python web framework
<mrgoodcat> also good morning :)
<cmaloney> Until someone wants to incorporate SQLAlchemy with flask++
<brousch> there are smaller ones: bottle
<brousch> flask-sqlalchemy has been around as long as flask
<brousch> Actually Flask itself is not bloated, it's just that the "best practice" builds a project base from a bunch of small external projects to end up like django
<greg-g> cmaloney: "This posting has been deleted by its author."
<DrDaemonEye> morning everyone
<cmaloney> greg-g: Drat. likely taken
<cmaloney> could've been your very own non-working Atari 800
<greg-g> hah
<jrwren> brousch: flask blueprints?
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: you really think django is a bloated mess?
<jrwren> brousch: that isn't a best practice, that is someone else's practice that they claim is best. Claims are a lie.
<mrgoodcat> i don't particularly think django is a bloated mess, but some people do
<mrgoodcat> and it is certainly trending that way
<jrwren> I've never thought it bloated, but I did htink it was messy back in the 1.4 days
<jrwren> but they've cleaned up so much, I think it is very nice now.
<mrgoodcat> the code is nice, but its just big
<mrgoodcat> it tries to be everything to everybody
<mrgoodcat> its nice to use
<mrgoodcat> but so is rails
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<cmaloney> _/(..)\_
<mrgoodcat> pushups?
<jrwren> I don't think it does try to be everything to everybody, but wtf do I know?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-07
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> (unrelated: my script to log into work is called "morning")
<jrwren> cmaloney: ha!
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/3139/
<cmaloney> Apparently it's this weekend
<cscheib> lulz: 7 people from 8 LoCos and 6 countries are participating in this event!
<cmaloney> There are more events in Russia than in the USA
<cscheib> methinks that event didn't have a strong planner
<cscheib> one can always just blame things on jcastro
<cscheib> I still blame Unity on him
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> unity is awesome I don't know what you're talking about
<cmaloney> I <3 Unity
<jrwren> What is unit?
<jrwren> err, unity?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Are you using Ubuntu?
<jrwren> I don't even know what ubuntu desktop I run. xubuntu or lubuntu, but I'm never sure which. :)
<cmaloney> *rolls eyes*
<jrwren> cmaloney: I'm typing to you from irssi running on ubuntu.
<jrwren> cmaloney: connected to it from iterm on macosx :)
<jrwren> oh man, its global bug jam this weekend?!?
<jrwren> well, lets say I did my contribution by packaging up golang 1.5 rc1 to ppa last night :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: apparently
<cmaloney> I'm doing my part by saying "apparently it's [global jam] this weekend
<jrwren> I found this recently: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts/Fix/Lists%20of%20bugs
<jrwren> should be fun as a starting point.
<cmaloney> Look at those trending lines. :)
<jcastro> I didn't even know it was a jam this weekend?
<greg-g> jcastro: man, you canonical employees are sooo disconnected from the community! don't even know it's a jam this weekend?!?!?!
<cmaloney> jcastro: I only found out because Michael Hall posted on G+
<greg-g> :P
<greg-g> g'morning :)
<cmaloney> greg-g's todo list: [x] Wake up [x] slag Ubuntu community [ ] get coffee
<cmaloney> ;)
<jcastro> greg-g: we apparently aren't the only ones who don't know either if only like 7 people showed up
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> greg-g: its because we don't work on Ubuntu :(
<jcastro> fundamentally working on ubuntu is just boring/finished for me.
<jcastro> so many more problems to solve on top of the platform
<jcastro> which are more interesting, aka. giving people kubernetes or a libswarm cluster, etc.
<greg-g> (look at what my jest did! it made a serious-ish conversation! #winning)
<jcastro> lol
<jcastro> I always answer any question people have
<greg-g> lol
<greg-g> jcastro: what color undies today?
<cmaloney> I didn't even know I needed a kubernetes until jcastro told me I needed one
<jcastro> dark grey, next
<jcastro> cmaloney: I didn't say you needed kubernetes!
<jrwren> greg-g: you shouldn't ask that. Have you seen @aphyr's twitter feed?
<greg-g> uhhh,no?
<jrwren> cmaloney: you don't need a kubernetes.
<jrwren> greg-g: depending on work envirnonment you may not want to.
<greg-g> this ain't work for me :)
<cmaloney> So basically Ubuntu Desktop is unmaintained then? ;)
<jcastro> it's about the same level as unmaintained as every other desktop
<jcastro> https://i.imgur.com/C2g72iE.png
<jcastro> this is what windows 10's control panels look like
<jcastro> yes, panels, plural
<jcastro> they have 2
<jcastro> apparently made by two totally different companies.
<cmaloney> Took a design cue from Blackberry / Lotus Notes
<jcastro> I was thinking more like GTK in 2002
<cmaloney> Same thing
<cscheib> windows has had 2 control panels for a really long time anyway
<cscheib> there's the stupid task view
<cscheib> or the icon view
<jcastro> well, it's been like 15 years though
<jcastro> they're a multi-billion dollar company
<jcastro> we have an excuse, a handful of a few engineers and some part time volunteers
<cmaloney> Microsoft has never been too keen on folks mucking with their control settings anyway
<jcastro> yeah but that's not the point
<jcastro> have one or the other
<cmaloney> That's partly why they're so confusingly laid out : They don't expect you tofind then
<cmaloney> them
<jcastro> oh I never go looking for them, I just search
<jcastro> hmm, apparently MS has ~6000 people working on windows
<cscheib> yea, search fixes most of my problems
<jcastro> I don't think I've browsed a menu in like 3 years
<jcastro> on any OS
<jcastro> though, I think people are kind of overblowing the windows 10 thing
<jcastro> "omg it has a keylogger"
<jcastro> of course it does dude, how do you think predictive text correction works
<cscheib> they always go all nutty about everything
<cscheib> gotta have something to bitch about
<jcastro> there was a guy on a debian list complaining that his web browser made remote connections to remote servers
<jcastro> it's like, you know that's the definition of what a browser does
<cscheib> "here's TCPDUMP output with my username and password in it, because I didn't use SSL"
<cscheib> jcastro: well, I mean, you can browse your filesystem with it, but it's not particularly effective at that
<jcastro> speaking of worthless tech
<jcastro> I got some amazon dash buttons
<jcastro> they're so awesome, it literally is worthless
<jcastro> you push a button and it orders garbage bags from amazon
<cmaloney> jcastro: /me makes it his life's mission to teach your dogs to push those buttons
<jcastro> they're actually kind of neat, they are DDoS proof
<jcastro> so it only orders on item, and you can't order another one until the one you asked for is delivered
<jcastro> so like you can't just push my button 50 times and cost me money
<cmaloney> Hah, nice.
 * cmaloney is listening to Procol Harum - Conquistador
<cmaloney> <3
<jcastro> I want to hack them to do other IoT-like things though
<jcastro> turn on/off lights, etc.
<cscheib> "the Tide button is rave mode for the basement"
<cmaloney> hah
<jcastro> if I could tie it to that company in AA that delivers beer
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> you know that would be awesome
<cmaloney> I'd settle for the fridge coming to me
<cscheib> I'm sure Uber will add alcohol delvery eventually
<cscheib> they're already starting on restaurant delivery
<jcastro> we have lyft locally here too
<jcastro> it's nice
<cmaloney> http://meercatsthatlooklikebruceschnier.tumblr.com/
<cscheib> that's great
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-08
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-09
<cscheib> jcastro, jrwren either of you around?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-08
<cmaloney> We'll get started soon
<cmaloney> Anyone here?
<gamerchick02_> i am but i'm watching Lewis
<cmaloney> Lewis?
<gamerchick02_> Inspector Lewis on Masterpiece Mystery
<gamerchick02_> its the final season
<cmaloney> Ah
<gamerchick02_> or series
<gamerchick02_> i'm a HUGE Kevin Whately fan and a HUGE Robbie/Laura shipper.
<gamerchick02_> ahem
<cmaloney> Watching the THelonious Monk documentary
<cmaloney> https://www.amazon.com/Thelonious-Monk-Straight-No-Chaser/dp/B000053VC9
<gamerchick02_> nice!
<jrwren> totally distracted by olympics
<gamerchick02_> that's ok i'm distracted by Lewis
<cscheib> cmaloney: interesting.  that wasn't the case 6 months ago when I looked
<cscheib> but that may have been the AT&T MVNOs
<Scary_Guy> I was distracted by sleep, not that I'd really have anything to say anyway
<Scary_Guy> jrwren, would something like http://openbts.org work?
<Scary_Guy> just set up your own personal tower, fuck'em
<Scary_Guy> also if you plan on traveling I'd look into a dual-sim phone
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> hi
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> morning pt 2
<_stink_> heh
<Scary_Guy> I haven't really thought about it, we have an afternoon, why no forenoon or preenoon?
<cmaloney> Because we probably did away with those terms
<cmaloney> Much in the same way we dealth with half-pennies
<Scary_Guy> well afternoon seems just as valid.  also pennies seem just as useless now, let's get rid of those too
<cmaloney> And furlongs
<cmaloney> Death to furlongs
<Scary_Guy> death to the imperial system in general
<Scary_Guy> also every other date format than YYYY-MM-DD, and 12 hour time
<cmaloney> ++
<Scary_Guy> and the Gregorian calander
<Scary_Guy> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fixed_Calendar
<jrwren> all time should be based on seconds since unix epoch
<Scary_Guy> no, screw that, and year zero too.  all time should be based on the human era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_calendar
<jrwren> unix epoch is the start of the human era that matters. :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: Totes
<cmaloney> That calendar reminds me of that naff idea that Swatch had for Internet beats
<cmaloney> 634 beats
<cmaloney> https://www.swatch.com/en_us/internet-time/
<Scary_Guy> was just reading the wiki on it
<Scary_Guy> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_time is a thing too
<Scary_Guy> although I kind of like the idea of being able to use an 8 hour or 6 hour clock as well.
<Scary_Guy> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37005226
<cmaloney> That's old news, sadly
<cmaloney> Although yay, it affects my handset.
<Scary_Guy> mine too
<Scary_Guy> also funny the blackphone 1 and 2 are on there
<Scary_Guy> I need to just break down and get a Nexus
<Scary_Guy> Then I can run this: https://copperhead.co/android/
<jrwren> then you can get rooted in that quadrooter thing.
<Scary_Guy> wat?
<jrwren> i was j/k.
<jrwren> the quadrooter thing came from defcon this weekend. qualcomm drivers are super vulnerable.
<jrwren> nexus uses qualcomm chip, so its vulnerable.
<Scary_Guy> goddamnit
<jrwren> http://thehackernews.com/2016/08/hack-android-phone.html
<Scary_Guy> oh, that was in the link I posted
<jrwren> yeah, lol
<Scary_Guy> what I get for skimming it
<Scary_Guy> but I could still get an OG Nexus 5, I don't see that listed
<jrwren> copperhead os looks like what apple ios does by default.
 * jrwren ducks
<Scary_Guy> but iOS isn't open source
<cmaloney> jrwren: DOn't make me shun you. ;)
<jrwren> I already ducked all these comments :]
 * cmaloney directs the heat of a thousand shuns at jrwren
<Scary_Guy> If I wanted an apple like device I'd at least get one with style https://www.turingphone.com/
<Scary_Guy> (if it ever actually releases that is)
<jrwren> i'm all locked into apple ecosystem now. i wish it were all open source, but its not, and its too convenient for me to care :[
<rick_h_> for me is wasn't the open source, but my inability to use a better device with my other stuff
<rick_h_> "this roku is awesome...oh wait I can't get at any of my apple purchases, or get my roku purchaes on my apple..."
<jrwren> i don't purchase media other than CDs, so that hasn't been an issue for me ;]
<jrwren> not trying to suggest your case isn't valid. I'm highlightning how diff our experiences are ;]
<rick_h_> custom built customer
<rick_h_> yea, understand
<rick_h_> but you've never wanted to bring anything non-apple into your tech mix and been frustrated?
<Scary_Guy> I have a great story, so I took photos on an old boss's iPhone to sell crap on craigslist.  then I try to transfer them to a PC
<jrwren> hrm, yes now that you mention it.
<jrwren> I hate that airplay is closed.
<jrwren> the first airplay video was wide open protocol. TRIVIAL to implement
<Scary_Guy> he said I needed to use some program called "ifunbox" to transfer them
<Scary_Guy> I need nothing with an android
<jrwren> then the airplay mirror came out with new protocol and it all went closed.
<jrwren> yes, it angers me greatly.
<jrwren> android and chrome are just as bad in this regarud.
<Scary_Guy> that's why I use firefox
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: that is not true at all. an iphone's camera shows up as any USB camera to a windows PC.
<jrwren> what does firefox do?
<Scary_Guy> well I don't know why his system didn't see it then
<Scary_Guy> this was years ago
<Scary_Guy> firefox isn't chrome, that's all it needs to do
<jrwren> ah, yes, firefox is my favorite browser too. ;]
<Scary_Guy> to me, apple is like TPM gone wrong.  It locks the user down instead of everyone else
<jrwren> its true.
<jrwren> the flip side to that is also true IMO. As long as you play in the confines, the experience is very good.
<Scary_Guy> what is worse is that the users are so smug about it.  they aren't selling a device, they're selling a status symbol
<jrwren> ha! that is sad but true.
<jrwren> for me, its just a tool which works well.
<Scary_Guy> can't sideload apps, can't get root, can't load your own OS.  I mean some android devices suffer from those issues as well
<Scary_Guy> well, many
<Scary_Guy> if that's all you need it for then great
<Scary_Guy> but I also don't see the point in paying $700 for a device that shatters on impact with a feather either
<jrwren> that has not been my experience.
<Scary_Guy> worked in a phone store, most of the screens that needed repair were iPhone
<jrwren> what models?
<jrwren> i've never broke an iphone and I mostly did not use a case.
<Scary_Guy> I don't know, I never touched them, but some people are more careful than others
<jrwren> 3gs and 4s were solid. SE seems solid
<jrwren> i could see 6 being fragile
<jrwren> I did put a nice gauge in my SE recently.
<Scary_Guy> the first 6+'s bent, that was funny
<Scary_Guy> also was it the 5 which had both front and back glass?  yeah that was great
<Scary_Guy> anyway boss knew I loved android and hated apple, so he worked on those and I just focused on android
<jrwren> 4 and 4s did too.
<jrwren> i have a 4 with cracked back glass.
<Scary_Guy> I did jailbreak a couple iphones, and loaded pineapple on a 3
<jrwren> one of the things that bum me out with all these old iphones is... there is nothing 3rd party you can do with them.
<jrwren> its a damn shame you can't repurpose an old iphone 4 for something.
<Scary_Guy> sorry, not pineapple, iDroid
<Scary_Guy> http://lifehacker.com/5693309/how-to-install-android-on-an-iphone-in-six-easy-steps
<jrwren> i'm pretty sure that does not work anymore.
<Scary_Guy> no, it doesn't
<Scary_Guy> but at the time I thought it was funny
<Scary_Guy> also your device is older so it MIGHT work on it
<Scary_Guy> otherwise it makes a neat wifi camera
<jrwren> if you keep up with OS updates, those often include firmware patches which prevent the jailbreak.
<jrwren> yup, was trying to find decent wifi camera software, none found.
<Scary_Guy> wow, that sucks
<jrwren> its ok. i can write my own.
<Scary_Guy> but can you then sideload it on there? :P
<jrwren> yes.
<Scary_Guy> well at least that's something then
<jrwren> dev cert is good for a while.
<jrwren> at least you can make a dev cert without being a $99/yr member now.
<Scary_Guy> oh good, I was worried about that too
<jrwren> yeah, they changed that last year. A very welcome change.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-09
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> btw: MUG meeting tonight
<_stink_> yo
 * greg-g yawns a mighty yawn
<cmaloney> btw: the latest Pepper & Carrot is based on some stories that I wrote. :)
<cmaloney> http://www.peppercarrot.com/en/article379/episode-18-the-encounter
<cmaloney> <3
<_stink_> nice!
<cmaloney> tx
<greg-g> cmaloney: neato!
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/events/cgvbtpcr13upkhmuqm7q25gikbo  <- clustering systems
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-10
<cmaloney> Afternoon and all that fun.
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<greg-g> meh
<cmaloney> That good?
<greg-g> ish :P
<mrgoodcat> set -g mouse on
<mrgoodcat> fuck
<cmaloney> ;)
<_stink_> that second line isn't a command
<greg-g> _stink_: not in *your* .bashrc
<_stink_> hah, good point
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> alias fuck="sudo !!"
<waldo323> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-11
<cmaloney> Evening
<greg-g> fuck
<greg-g> just got done dealing with 2 simultaneous outages/incidents
<greg-g> new images uploaded were getting stupid black lines across them, and then our CI infra fell over
 * greg-g signs off
<greg-g> adios
<cmaloney> :(
<cmaloney> Hope tomorrow is better
<cmaloney> (also: WTF is with the black lines?)
<greg-g> gorey details: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T142638
<cmaloney> brb
<cmaloney> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/p/greg/ <- that is a handsome beard there.
<greg-g> cmaloney: why thank you, sadly I cut it off recently (I trimmed it down to 10mm on Sunday, it was trimmed to 20mm a month ago from the gloriousness it was)
<greg-g> still have a beard, I don't think I'll be clean shaven again in my life (unless something weird happens in my head)
<cmaloney> heh
<shakes808> morning all
<shakes808> wondering if there is anywhere you can point me to get a basic understanding of linux sys admin roles
<rick_h_> shakes808: what kinds of roles?
<jcastro> jorgeops!
<shakes808> rick_h_: just a general understanding of what you need to know to be a linux sys admin.  what should one know inside and out and what are the common issues one would come across and need to troubleshoot
<rick_h_> shakes808: so there was a really good book I loved back in the day
<jcastro> that's a really open ended question
<rick_h_> oreilly system administration
<jcastro> that's like "how do I scientist?"
<shakes808> rick_h_: I am going to be starting up my server again and want to get back into admin my own stuff.
<shakes808> jcastro: I know, sorry for the endless possibilities that this could lead down
<jcastro> http://devops.com/2015/02/11/five-great-books-on-devops/
<jcastro> more higher level
<cmaloney> Yeah, this is a sort of "Teach me UNIX" question
<shakes808> jcastro: thank you for that
<cmaloney> if you're doing just basic home-server admin then you'll want to lay out what it is that you're looking to accomplish and go from therem
<jcastro> I try to do my home server like I would a work server
<shakes808> cmaloney: that is what i was trying to do 5 years ago, when i started working with you.  i want to get back into linux things
<jcastro> not that I do ops professionally anymore, but I try to understand the new way of doing things
<cmaloney> jcastro: Same, though I'm not using Ansible on it. :)
<cmaloney> shakes808: The best way I've found is to use Linux 24/7
<cmaloney> as your primary desktop
<shakes808> I have a general concept of all the things i want to do for my home server.
<cmaloney> anything less and you'll be tempted to not do it.
<cmaloney> shakes808: Such as?
<shakes808> cmaloney: i was doing that until that laptop died.  i have another one that I am going to convert. just need to make time
<shakes808> i want it to be a file || network share, media, repository...
<shakes808> potentially run an email server
<cmaloney> Which protocols? CIFS? NFS? UPNP?
<jcastro> I would just skip email
<jcastro> I mean, it's how I learned, but it's also 2016
<shakes808> that is something that i would need to hash out with someone that knows this stuff to make those deeper decisions
<jcastro> learn something more applicable
<shakes808> jcastro: why skip the email server portion?
<cmaloney> jcastro: Don't be dissing email. ;)
<cmaloney> Because jcastro has no compunction over letting gmail be his end-all-be-all
<jcastro> because there are more important things to learn than managing email servers
<jcastro> unless you specifically want to become an email engineer or something heh
<cmaloney> It's still important, but I wouldn't get too down the rabbit-hole of spam prevention
<jcastro> learn hadoop, or mesos, or kubernetes, or something that is in demand
<cmaloney> a few remote blacklists and some SPF filtering and you're fine.
<shakes808> i just want to know how all that works.  i figure i would start with the file || network share.  that would seem to be the biggest and most useful to know
<cmaloney> Hadoop is dead. ;)
<cmaloney> shakes808: Start from what you need first
<jcastro> right, people always need file shares, that's a good one
<cmaloney> Otherwise it's work
<shakes808> gotcha
<cmaloney> So if you need centralized file storage start with that
<cmaloney> get that working
<cmaloney> and then figure out the next bit that you need
<cmaloney> You'll be more motivated for things you need / want than things you think you want
<shakes808> sounds about what I was going to do.
<cmaloney> And while Hadoop / Kubernetes / Mesos are cool you're probably not going to start one of those up on a whim. ;)
<cmaloney> At least not Hadoop
<shakes808> I don't even know what that is :|
<cmaloney> http://hadoop.apache.org/
<cmaloney> It's a distributed database for large sets of data
<shakes808> cmaloney: i am on that site already :)
<shakes808> thank you
<cmaloney> np
<cmaloney> Again, not something that you'll accidentally set up. ;)
<shakes808> Thank you all for your input.  When I start working on my server again, I will probably be in here quite a bit
<cmaloney> No worries. At the very least have fun with it
<shakes808> that is the idea ;)
<shakes808> what would be the best way to set up the server so that windows machines can talk to it?  My wife isn't going to switch too linux :|
<cmaloney> Youll need to set it up as a samba server
<cmaloney> and that's about as helpful as I can be. :)
<shakes808> sounds good :)
<shakes808> thank you
<cmaloney> np
<jrwren> *gasp* i just glanced and saw jcastro suggesting learning hadoop or mesos?  WTF?!
 * jrwren throws up.
<shakes808> ... did webchat go down for anyone else?
<jrwren> jcastro: said skip email becuase he gave up and sold his email to google. :p
<jrwren> even hilary clinton had her own email server.
<shakes808> jrwren: HAHAHA
<shakes808> I will sign up for that email server ;)
<jrwren> shakes808: ignore hadoop unless you are doing big data (as in more than you are willing to buy RAM) and since you said home server, you probably don't need hadoop.
<jrwren> shakes808: check out reddit r/selfhosted
<shakes808> jrwren: will look into that
<shakes808> thank you
<jrwren> shakes808: we don't have any good answers, i think, because technology for technologies sake isn't a good solution. If you have a real problem to solve, you'll get good solutions. You fileserver one is a good problem with lots of possible good solutions.
<Scary_Guy> I'll check it out, in return have you seen reddit.com/r/datahoarding ?
<jrwren> i've had a linux home server of some form for over 20 yrs now. This makes me feel old.
<jrwren> i've not seen r/datahoarding
<Scary_Guy> https://www.reddit.com/r/datahoarder screwed up the name anyway
<Scary_Guy> it's even in the related subs on the sidebar, neat
<jrwren> oh, thanks.
<jrwren> so, datahoarders is more about how to store your hoards of data? I really should follow this, but I feel like I've already got a working system for storing mine.
<Scary_Guy> I enjoy it, better than having a series of drives just laying about.  I really need a better way to organize it all though
<Scary_Guy> I just saw Seagate made a 60TB SSD.  Not RTM yet but hopefully one day
<cmaloney> That's a scary amount of data to just go "poof"
<jrwren> you've heard of LVM?
<Scary_Guy> With 12 drives you've got 1PB
<cmaloney> I've heard of it. What does that have to do with 60TB SSD go boom?
<jrwren> ya know what, THAT amount of storage for home is in a whole different world than me.
<cmaloney> That would be awesome for backups. Write once, never overwrite. ;)
<jrwren> i'm fine with my 6-8, 4-8TB drives each bought with lowest $/GB at the time.
<Scary_Guy> remember this classic?  https://i.imgur.com/vxw7t7q.jpg
<jrwren> no, althought that looks like a 45 drives predecessor
<cmaloney> First I'm seeing it
<cmaloney> Wonder if that was a RAID. ;)
<Scary_Guy> http://stefansinclair.name/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/GigabyteComparison_20yago_small_thumb.jpg going back even further
<Scary_Guy> hell, I remember the warm fuzzies I got moving from 40MB in the Compudyne to a 512MB in the Packard Bell.  I will never not miss that
<jrwren> me too, but mine was 100MB NEC to WD 540MB.
<shakes808> off-topic -> Claypool and Lennon at the Majestic tonight if anyone is interested :)
<Scary_Guy> I've got a gathering to go to tonight at 7 in Wayne
<Scary_Guy> sounds awesome though
<shakes808> yeah, i have my date night with the wife.  she isn't into the odd music like i am :|  wish i could go.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-12
<cmaloney> Evening
<jrwren> anyone ever setup their own rtmp server?
<cmaloney> Not familiar with that
<jrwren> i finally got it going.
<jrwren> i didn't realize how endpoint + streamkey works.
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morning
 * rick_h_ can't wait to get his truck back today
<rick_h_> I don't know how folks get by with 1 car
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Heh, I can imagine that is annoying as fuck
<cmaloney> esp since you don't like that car
<cmaloney> btw: Does anyone have a VW Jetta Wagon?
<cmaloney> Managed to mess up an order and ordered the wrong driver's side wiper replacement
<cmaloney> It's off by a millimeter
<cmaloney> or two
<jrwren> rick_h_: i'm TRYING to sell a car so we can be a 1 car family ;]
<jrwren> rick_h_: but I'm also a short walk to a bus stop and zipcar/maven
<cmaloney> You can get away with that in Ann Arbor, the city of tomorrow
<jrwren> cmaloney: bwahahaha
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, maybe I guess
<rick_h_> jrwren: but isn't harder with the kid chucking them around?
<cmaloney> Welcome to Ann Arbor, the city of tomorrow, where everything floats to your kid on-demand
<jrwren> rick_h_: wife not working makes it a lot easier, I think
<cmaloney> Yeah, we survived with one car when I was working from home / unemployed / working from home
<cmaloney> It wasn't until $currentjob that I needed another car
<greg-g> we're still one car (still that '02 Subaru). The '83 G30 RV doesn't count :P
<cmaloney> Heh
<shakes808> hello my ubuntu peoples, had a question that I wanted to clarify.  I just read that ubuntu is built off of a debian test release, is this true?
<shakes808> This is what I seen: "Ubuntu LTS is from Testing. Other Ubuntu releases are from Unstable."
<rick_h_> shakes808: well it's sync'd across and such
<rick_h_> shakes808: but it's the start yes
<greg-g> debian testing at the time of the start of the new Ubuntu release (iow: right after latest release, iow: in May and November, after the releases in April and October), which is what turns into the next stable Debian release every couple years, is what is pulled into the start of the next Ubuntu release
<greg-g> lots of subordinate clauses in there, sorry
<shakes808> rick_h_: gotcha
<shakes808> greg-g: haha, i followed that ;)
<shakes808> rick_h_ and greg-g : thank you
<shakes808> I am trying to figure out if I should go Debian or Ubuntu server
<shakes808> Sounds like Ubuntu Server LTS and Debian are going to be similar
<greg-g> depends if you want any of the special Ubuntu-juice
<shakes808> that is a better understanding and explanation for LTS than I thought it was before
<greg-g> We (Wikimedia Foundation) switched from Ubuntu Trusty to Debian Jessie, fwiw (but we also have a fair number of DDs on staff)
<shakes808> greg-g: If I am doing server, it is going too command line, so what extra "juice" would Ubuntu offer that Debian doesn't?
<greg-g> juju, snap, etc
<greg-g> snappy, whatever that thing is :)
<shakes808> --> OFF TOPIC <-- Deftones tonight at Freedom Hill
<greg-g> I saw some friends indicating they're going to the Rob Zombie + KoRn "Return of the dreadlocks" shows... middleschool and highschool revisited :)
<shakes808> greg-g: I am going to be part of that middle school and high school revisited :)
<shakes808> Both put on a great show.  I was at the Manson / Slipknot concert a week or so ago]
<shakes808> Manson wasn't at his best, but Slipknot was on point like usual
<jrwren> shakes808: you should use ubuntu-server.
<shakes808> and Korn's guitarist is rumored to have came back
<jrwren> shakes808: because this is #ubuntu-us-mi ;]
<shakes808> jrwren: haha, right
<jrwren> shakes808: i like debian, do not get me wrong, but ubuntu is just so much better.
<greg-g> "better"
<greg-g> :P
<jrwren> greg-g: yes, its subjective.
<jrwren> shakes808: things like apt-add-repository OOTB.
<jrwren> shakes808: IMO ubuntu releases have better docs. The Ubuntu Server Guide for example.
<greg-g> shakes808: I saw a Manson + Rob Zombie concert while in undergrad, actually, and boy are their musicians awesome. To be with them you have to be top of the line.
<jrwren> its been a while since I used debian, but last time I did I was surprised by how much was missing compared to ubuntu. It felt like someone stripped features.
<greg-g> jrwren: it's the opposite, someone failed to upstream/share their additions </end decade old rant>
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> (yes, I </ and used "end" like a newb)
<shakes808> jrwren: alright, will go ubuntu; will be ubuntu all around.  repurposing another old laptop with ubuntu as well
<greg-g> shakes808: that's the other thing to consider, yeah, consolidating on one platform for all your machines
<shakes808> greg-g: right?! can't go wrong seeing them.  Also, NiN.  His road musicians are on point!
<greg-g> cognitive overhead of multiple platforms isn't worth it
<jrwren> if you run apt-cacher you will reap the benefits even more.
<shakes808> greg-g: kind of what I was thinking, but then again, it should be OS agnostic when using a server.  My Windows machine should be able to talk to it and send and retrieve files just as well as Debian / Ubuntu
<greg-g> jrwren: that too
<jrwren> greg-g: believe me i understand about upstreaming... i experience it all the time wiht juju :p
<greg-g> shakes808: cognitive overhead wrt maintenance, is what I mean. Same upgrade schedule, same version of packages so you know they won't be incompatible, etc
<jrwren> right... you don't have to remember mundane shit like, debian's apache2 pkg has http2 support, but ubuntu's does not.
<greg-g> word
<jrwren> pardon my curse.
<greg-g> asshole
 * greg-g is in a weird Friday mood after a crazy week
<greg-g> outages related to things my team 'owns' this week:
<greg-g> 	* CI: 2016-08-07 - wikitech:Incident_documentation/20160807-CI
<greg-g> 	* MW: 2016-08-09 - wikitech:Incident_documentation/20160809-MediaWiki
<greg-g> 	* CI: 2016-08-10 - TBC
<greg-g> 	* MW: 2016-08-10 - wikitech:Incident_documentation/20160810-MediaWiki
<_stink_> yuck
<cmaloney> Rob Zombie took a page from Alice Cooper in surrounding himself with amazing musicians
<cmaloney> and Alice Cooper learned that from Zappa afaict
 * greg-g puts on some Porcupine Tree and gets to work
<shakes808> greg-g: haven't heard from them in a long time
 * shakes808 switches from RATM to Porcupine Tree
 * greg-g is listening to The Incident album
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4OqtyoDAto
<cmaloney> https://meanmessiah.bandcamp.com/album/let-us-pray-ep <- up next
<shakes808> cmaloney: haha, i was listening to dethklok all morning then changed it to RATM and some 90s stuffs
<Scary_Guy> needs more Children of Bodom
<shakes808> cmaloney: my co-workers said that Dethklok was heavy so turned on  RATM and they said that it was better but not by much  :)
<shakes808> Scary_Guy: CoB is amazing live! have you seen them?
<cmaloney> Dethklok heavy?
<cmaloney> Challenge accepted.
<shakes808> haha
<Scary_Guy> not live :(
<shakes808> they are good.  seen them 2x at Harpos.  I think Trivvium opened both times
<shakes808> I want to see Opeth
<Scary_Guy> although my favorite band...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DF60OqiW34
<shakes808> Oct 7th :) at the State Theater
<shakes808> Scary_Guy: never heard of this band
<Scary_Guy> try not to kill yourself in anguish :)
<shakes808> HAHA
<greg-g> Funeral Doom Metal, heh, yep
<greg-g> I love the genre names of doom/death metal
<greg-g> subgenre*
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlKzlfqmzpQ
<cmaloney> yeah, they're pretty out there.
<cmaloney> (the genres)
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: You've heard of my podcast - Open Metalcast, right?
<shakes808> Scary_Guy: HAHAHA
<Scary_Guy> nope
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/
<cmaloney> Creative Commons Licensed Metal Music
<cmaloney> aka shit Craig likes.
<Scary_Guy> oh yeah, I thoguht it was about actual metal casting though :p
<cmaloney> naturally.
<cmaloney> I get orders all the time. ;)
<Scary_Guy> I'm mostly into industrial music myself
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/?s=club+metal&submit=Search
<Scary_Guy> actually DJ'ing tomorrow at City Club
<cmaloney> I have to get another Club Metal out there.
<cmaloney> it's been over a year. :(
<cmaloney> Mostly finished but I have to get the voices back onto my machine. :(
<cmaloney> But yeah, check it out, give it a spin. Money back if not satisfied. ;)
<Scary_Guy> if I ever get to it.  always a lot on my plate
<Scary_Guy> bookmarked though and I fully intend to
<cmaloney> Add it to your podcatcher of choice.
<cmaloney> tx
<greg-g> +1 to OMC
<cmaloney> <3
<Scary_Guy> I also have a bunch of other friends with shows.  WXOU's Hard-Wired and nachtlich.com
<Scary_Guy> was also a part of the Detroit Electronic Coalition for a minute
<Scary_Guy> (nachtlich is horribly out of date though)
<shakes808> Scary_Guy: you dj at City?  I haven't been there since high school haha.  what is the scene like there?
<Scary_Guy> slow, things died off when it started sucking
<shakes808> that sucks
<Scary_Guy> then the owner fired everyone and we're trying to rebuild the crowd
<shakes808> I wanted to bring my wife there, she is not into that scene at all but she likes to people watch.  What better place to be out of place and watch them when they watch her haha. Only reason she comes with me to Slayer and my metal shows haha
<Scary_Guy> lots of apathy from the old staff.  wouldn't fix anything and treated the crowd like shit if they weren't regulars
<shakes808> that sucks
<Scary_Guy> sucked*  much better now
<shakes808> good.  might have to take her there :)
<Scary_Guy> fixed the stairs, put in a new soundsystem, painted shit
<Scary_Guy> go tomorrow if you can
<shakes808> What time are you DJ'n?
<jrwren> why did the owner fire everyone?
<Scary_Guy> they weren't doing their jobs, best reason there is IMO
<shakes808> haha
<shakes808> Scary_Guy: what is the address again?  Like I said, it has been over a decade since I've been there
<Scary_Guy> 400 Bagley Ave
<Scary_Guy> cross street is Cass
<shakes808> yeah, the basement of the hotel, correct?
<jrwren> that is labrynth
<Scary_Guy> yeah, no, other side upstairs
<Scary_Guy> labyrinth is long dead :(
<shakes808> will have to see if we can make it out there
<Scary_Guy> I'll be DJ'ing up front with my friend Mike
<shakes808> what is your DJ name?>?
<Scary_Guy> Scary guy
<shakes808> haha, easy enough ;)
<cmaloney> kiss
<Scary_Guy> no u
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUlRe9OTjzY
<shakes808> Scary_Guy: that's pretty cool
<Scary_Guy> anyway bbl, much to do!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-13
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> yo
<cmaloney> Just cleaned out gutters. Woo woo
<_stink_> you beat the rain, nice job
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-14
<cmaloney> Sory of. :)
<cmaloney> It was coming in the basement last night so I was incentivised. :)
<_stink_> :/
<_stink_> just a one story roofline?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<_stink_> ours is two stories... i am 'not permitted' to get up there with an extension ladder
<cmaloney> heh
<shakes808> evening all.
<shakes808> can anyone help me with getting my wireless working with 16.04?   Just installed it on a laptop and wireless isn't working.  It shows up in my list but it says disconnected.  I see a list of the wireless connections that i can connect to, but not either of mine. ( 2Ghz and 5Ghz)
<jrwren> linux is for servers. ;]
<_stink_> boooo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-07
<cmaloney> greets and salutations
<rick_h> afternoon
<greg-g> morning
<cmaloney> How goes the battles?
<rick_h> wheee
<rick_h> first PT appointment today and walking around w/o a crutch so yay!
<rick_h> of course...10 days until they cut it up and I'm back on crutches 24/7 ...
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> i definitely overdid it on Saturday. Sunday was painful.
<rick_h> that's why weekends are two days :)
<jrwren> lol, true!
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-08
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<jrwren> Good morning.
<_stink__> yo
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h> oh boy
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> always
<notlikethesoup> morning
<cmaloney> Did someone fire up a Bookie Instance?
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25270845/
<_stink__> mine is still chugging along, but nothing new
<rick_h> cmaloney: what's that from?
<cmaloney> That's from my logs on my website
<cmaloney> But it also hosts lococast.net, omc, decafbad.net
<cmaloney> I'd have to go deeper in to the logs to see which site it triggered.
<rick_h> yea, was curious what the /archive urls were there
<rick_h> cool
<cmaloney> lococast.net
<brousch> Probably someone from pyohio
<cmaloney> Possibly?
<brousch> I just created a new droplet on DO and make was not installed (but git was)
<greg-g> ohai from Montreal
<_stink__> is that french?
<greg-g> that's the primary language around here, yeah
<greg-g> so I'm lost :)
<gamerchick02> g'day from Auburn Hills. :)
<greg-g> I flew over ya'll on the way here :)
<_stink__> i did sense something...
<_stink__> a beard from long ago
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3fpGdU_lk8
<gamerchick02> HAH
<gamerchick02> that's what that was!!
<cmaloney> ?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-09
<gamerchick02> i was trying to be funny. didn't work. whoops
<greg-g> delayed humor is hard
<greg-g> async humor, I guess
<jrwren> bonsoir greg-g
<greg-g> my neighbor in petaluma, who spent a year or something in France in high school made fun of the french speaking canadians and their "american french" accent :)
<gamerchick02> delayed humor is hard. i need to update. then i'm going to bed. see ya'll tomorrow night!
<jrwren> i imagine the difference between canadian french adn french french is not like the diff between NE USA english and London english, but more like the difference between Louisiana English and northrn england english.   :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: French Canada gets no love
<Scary_Guy> because French Canadians loves no one
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> Morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> i think i am about to embark on my first kivy project this evening
<rick_h> sounds like a party
<rick_h> wasn't brousch all into kivy for a bit?
<brousch> I was a core developer for a few years
<rick_h> there you go
<brousch> Lack of accessibility is really why I stopped. With Kivy, you don't get any of the platforms' built-in accessibility features
<brousch> So it's OK for specialty apps and games, but not good for more serious apps
<_stink__> mrgoodcat: i just started one also
<mrgoodcat> mine is going to be a pi monitored keggerator
<mrgoodcat> :)
<rick_h> hah, awesome
<jrwren> native apps all the way.
<jrwren> I made a little native app and showed it to a buddy and of course he had to show me his app. Mine started about 5X faster than his react native app.
<jrwren> non-native app frameworks are a joke. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should do something.
<rick_h> I think if it speeds up the dev time of a keggerator then by all means
<greg-g> yeah, I'm not sure a keggerator app needs the best app store reviews ;)
<rick_h> not going to argue for main apps, if you're going after users in an ecosystem you have to buy into the ecosystem beliefs
<brousch> mrgoodcat: I did a demo of kivy on rpi a few times
<brousch> How are you installing it?
<brousch> I liked http://kivypie.mitako.eu/
<jrwren> oh yeah, for rpi stuff and personal stuff, use what works.
<cmaloney-exile> hola
<jrwren> I was just astounded in this case because the startup time was noticable. Like, to the point that I'd think twice about launching the app because the startup time was slow.
<rick_h> cmaloney-exile: exile?
<cmaloney-exile> Yeah, can't ssh into my remote machine
<rick_h> cmaloney-exile: oic, doh
<cmaloney-exile> I'm at Mid Michigan for an interview for JoDee
<cmaloney-exile> hanging out in their library
<brousch> cmaloney: Let JoDee know that we went to the Veen Observatory last night as part of George's Space Camp. His mind was blown at least 3 times.
<cmaloney-exile> That's awesome!
<cmaloney-exile> Let me guess: Saturn's rings
<cmaloney-exile> Jupiter's red spot
<cmaloney-exile> and the moon
<brousch> close
<cmaloney-exile> moons of jupiter?
<brousch> Saturn's rings and titan, Jupiter and 4 moons (couldn't quite make out the red spot), and a ring nebula
<cmaloney-exile> Oh wow
<brousch> Then ISS flyover
<cmaloney-exile> <3
<greg-g> niiiice
<cmaloney-exile> Will let her know
<brousch> They even let him rotate the dome
<cmaloney-exile> That's awesome!
<mrgoodcat> brousch: we aren't actually sure how it will work yet
<mrgoodcat> we just got the hardware in yesterday
<mrgoodcat> so we're in the playing/planning phase right now
<mrgoodcat> out of curiosity, what sorts of problems made you switch away from kivy and what did you switch to?
<brousch> Accessibility was really the big one. I watched too many talks about how hard it is for disabled people to use inaccessible apps.
<mrgoodcat> also jrwren is there a native app framework you'd recommend? i've played with qt a bit but tbh i haven't done much ui work
<mrgoodcat> what about kivy made accessibility hard?
<brousch> For mobile, I would go native for that platform. For a kegerrator used by you, kivy is great
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: there is only ios and its cocoatouch there. :p
<jrwren> QT is pretty terrible at accessibility too, from what I've heard. Maybe fine on win/mac, but terrible on linux
<mrgoodcat> does kivy not work with screen readers or something?
<brousch> If it does, it just by chance
<jrwren> isn't kivy a layer on something else too?  SDL or something?
<mrgoodcat> its a layer on top of many other things
<mrgoodcat> it supposedly chooses the best thing depending on your environment
<mrgoodcat> so you can launch it without x and it will write directly to the framebuffer if need be
<mrgoodcat> if i understand correctly
<mrgoodcat> which i likely don't :)
<mrgoodcat> SDL is listed as a provider. along with pygame, pil, gstreamer, gles, glew, etc...
<jrwren> oh, its opengl.
<jrwren> that is why no accessibility
<mrgoodcat> on startup my hello world app claims to be using sdl2 for Text and Window objects, and img_tex, img_imageio, img_dds, img_sdl2, img_gif (img_pil, img_ffpyplayer ignored) for Image objects
<jrwren> GLES2 does run everywhere, so it makes for a nice abstraction layer.
<mrgoodcat> [INFO   ] [GL          ] Using the "OpenGL ES 2" graphics system
<brousch> Yeah, it runs everywhere, but the widgets are all custom components
<notlikethesoup> hi mrgoodcat
<mrgoodcat> hi
<brousch> for cmaloney https://zachholman.com/posts/javacript-haters
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-10
<greg-g> what blogging software do all the cool kids use these days?
<cmaloney> Pelican is what I use
<cmaloney> (http://decafbad.net)
<cmaloney> it imported my Wordpress instance the best and has markdown support
<greg-g> cmaloney: looks nice
<greg-g> ooo, AGPL too :)
<greg-g> I think I'll mess with this later...
<greg-g> now it's bed time
<greg-g> g'night
<greg-g> !
<cmaloney> G'knight!
<jrwren> greg-g: medium :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: Why do you hate RSS?
<greg-g> jrwren: I knew you were going to reply with that ;)
<jrwren> medium doesn't rss?  well ain't that something.
<jrwren> GOOG told me to hate RSS, so I hate RSS.
<jrwren> I am merely a product of the companies for which I consume.
<greg-g> you are the product, indeed :)
 * greg-g goes down to breakfast before day 2 of hackathon
<jrwren> i liked the "for which I consume" bit. I live to service companies, not they live to service me.
<greg-g> that's an odd perspective given how even pure capitalism is supposed to work
<greg-g> you like the fuedal system better? ;)
 * greg-g really goes
<jrwren> lmao @ pure capitalism.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I think Medium does RSS but they really make it difficult to find it
<cmaloney> that and they hide their posts
<cmaloney> It makes LiveJoural seem positively open
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: i think a lot of the cool kids are using ghost
<mrgoodcat> medium has a dickbar now
<greg-g> a what bar?
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: I looked at ghost last night... all of the marketing speak and financial data on their website turned me off
<greg-g> see, I'm the opposite of jrwren ;)
<cmaloney> I want my blog to federate 15 ways from sunday
<cmaloney> I want people to do surprise things with my content
<jrwren> greg-g: you are the opposite of my sarcastic persona.
<jrwren> greg-g: IRL any static generator will do. I'm hosting in google cloud storage for free.  YAY!
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> Also good: geocities, Angelfire, and Tripod
<cmaloney> jrwren: Friendster
<jrwren> whoa!
<jrwren> wasn't that more of a social network than a blog host though? like orkut?
<cmaloney> Yeah, it was one of the first ones
<cmaloney> But iirc Geocities wasn' a blog as much as just web hosting
<jrwren> right. you could put anything htere. i wonder if you could put rss, or it if only allowed html/css/js
<greg-g> oh man, orkut
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: a dickbar is a persistent bar that takes up part of your screen and you can't make it go away
<mrgoodcat> mostly on mobile
<mrgoodcat> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCInjeEVoAAKuDO.jpg
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: i'm hosting in netlify for free. YAY!
<mrgoodcat> also using a static site generator
<jrwren> netlify?
<mrgoodcat> yea its a cdn that specializes in hosting sites using static site generators
<jrwren> wow, I need more coffee. i'm reading that as net li-fee
<jrwren> looks cool.
<mrgoodcat> push to github, automatically built and deployed
<mrgoodcat> and the free tier even uses LE to generate a free ssl cert
<jrwren> github.io is good too!
<mrgoodcat> yes it is
<mrgoodcat> github.io doesn't support ssl though, which seems sort of silly to me
<mrgoodcat> basically every major browser has supported SNI for like 5+ years some even as much as 10
<mrgoodcat> and iirc, server load difference is negligible on modern hardware
<jrwren> great point.
<jrwren> i mean, they do for the *.github.io domains, but not for custom domains
<jrwren> I don't think S3, azure storage or GCP storage do ssl for custom domain either.
<mrgoodcat> netlify does :)
<jrwren> that is cool, and cool that they do it easily and directly.
<jrwren> s3/azure/gcp all make you work aroudn it somehow. cloudfront, ???, ???
<mrgoodcat> cloudfront is a nightmare for personal use
<mrgoodcat> it is an enterprise first tool
<mrgoodcat> i have to use it at work
<mrgoodcat> configuration is incredibly granular, but there is no simple "click here and enable" option
<mrgoodcat> and you have to upload your own certs and all that garbage unless you use their $$$$ cert generation tool
<brousch> Limelight has ssl
<brousch> We're focused on business though, not personal
<mrgoodcat> is limelight where you work?
<mrgoodcat> i'm not sure why but i was under the impression you worked for a school system...
<brousch> I work for limelight
<cmaloney> living in the limelight...
<cmaloney> dammit jcastro for not being here to get the earworm.
<_stink__> don't worry, i got it
<_stink__> so there's one
<cmaloney> thank you
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-11
<greg-g> cmaloney: just to double check my thinking: for your pelican blog you have, which bits in git? just the content dir? or the whole pelican dir but excluding a bunch of stuff?
<greg-g> did people see this? Next total solar eclipse in the US is in 7 years, really close to michigan: https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/map/2024-april-8#
<greg-g> totality that is, A2 will get 98% coverage
<greg-g> I think I need to plan a trip to Carrie's parents (in Chelsea) then drive down to Oberlin or something for the 4 minutes of totality
<greg-g> we should all meet up :)
<greg-g> what are YOU doing in 7 years? :P
<_stink__> probably just dicking around on irc
<greg-g> _stink__++
<jrwren> greg-g: planning on similar if the world still exists in 2024. See you there.
<greg-g> jrwren: word
<brousch> jrwren: You did pretty well against your bees http://woodtv.com/2017/08/10/man-hospitalized-after-accidentally-setting-self-on-fire/
<jrwren> lol, that idiot tried to kill a nest using fire. that is just foolish.
<cmaloney> greg-g: We've already consoled ourselves with the next totality being in 7 years
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> re: Pelican: I have it all in git, but I publish bia rsync
<cmaloney> s/bia/via/
<greg-g> cmaloney: the whole venv?
<cmaloney> no, I have the venv in a separate dir
<cmaloney> but that's how my home setup is
<greg-g> can you give me an example?
 * greg-g is inexperienced with real use of venvs
<greg-g> (tell me if now isn't a good time, i can wait for delayed responses ;) )
<cmaloney> Nah, it's alright
<cmaloney> JoDee was just offered a full-time position at Mid Michigan Community College and we finished running hte numbers. She's not taking it.
<cmaloney> so it's a little emotional over here
<greg-g> Yay & :(
<greg-g> totally, do your thing
<greg-g> I'm happy she was offered the position though!
<cmaloney> Yeah, they really want her, but I don't think she could grow the program the way they want
<greg-g> :/
<cmaloney> Oh totally. She's a God-Damn professional
<cmaloney> but it's a small pond (mostly made up of locals and kids who majored in alcohol)
<cmaloney> who flunked out of CMU
<greg-g> got it
<jrwren> bummer.
<cmaloney> and that's not a way to grow an astronomy program
<cmaloney> we ran the numbers and she'd have to pull more students from CMU
<cmaloney> anywho, I have pelican in a directory
<cmaloney> and I use a script called mkvirtualenv that keeps the venv in ~/.virtualenvs
<cmaloney> but you could put the venv wherever you want
<cmaloney> I prefer to keep venvs out of git repos though
<cmaloney> because #1: Python venvs don't work across machines without effort, and b) git isn't great for binaries.
<greg-g> yeah, that's what I was imagining (to keep it out) so I was just curious how to separate appropriately
<cmaloney> So that's two strikes against putting the venv in git
<cmaloney> one way would be to use .gitignore to ignore the venv directory
<cmaloney> another would be to put the venev in .. from the pelican install
<cmaloney> so it could be pelican_ve/pelican
<greg-g> gotcha
<greg-g> that last part makes more sense to me
<cmaloney> where the binaries are in pelican_ve and the content is in pelican
<cmaloney> that last part was how we deployed at Morpace
<greg-g> cool
<cmaloney> The only downside is you have to be careful if you decide to rebuild the ve
<cmaloney> rm -rf ve directory is not going to end well. :)
<cmaloney> and if you decide to script this using Ansible it can make things a little difficult
<greg-g> right right
<greg-g> I was starting down the path of puppetizing it, but, I stopped :)
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> The only link you need between the ve directory and pelican is the environment activation
<cmaloney> so it can live anywhere
<cmaloney> Pelican uses a makefile for making content
<cmaloney> so you can tell it where the Python EXE is by modifying the Makefile
<greg-g> cmaloney: taha, this is helping so much man, thanks
<cmaloney> np. Glad I can give some insight
<cmaloney> I use this for three of my sites (decafbad.net, cinciclassic.org, and physastro.com)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-12
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> thought of cmaloney https://youtu.be/KeBZD9mUgLI?t=109 :)
<cmaloney> rick_h: Whatever makes the team happy. :)
<cmaloney> Go Team!
<cmaloney> (I will say if I were to pick a sport to obsess over it would be hockey, though)
<cmaloney> partly because I've played floor hockey, partly because I've seen really good hockey games...
<cmaloney> ... and partly because JoDee gets REALLY angry at the TV when hockey is on
<cmaloney> (that's her French-Canadian grandpa's doing)
<goat-g> yay, my offlineimap run finally finished! no more using the gmail interface for my work account (personal account was seeded with an old backup)
<cmaloney> nice
<goat-g> (also, sorry, the joke at Wikimania this year is goats instead of cats (as the new goto meme), so there's a bit of a goat takeover)
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-13
<cmaloney> jrwren: Happy Birthday!
<cmaloney> Also: I see 40 isn't preventing you from making bad life's choices. Zima?
<goat-g> Zima?!
<cmaloney> goat-g: https://cormorant.bandcamp.com/album/diaspora
<cmaloney> They're from Petaluma so please ask them to adopt a CC-license. :)
<cmaloney> "Cormorant are 100% independent, so all proceeds from this webstore go directly back into funding the band and its music. Thank you! "
<goat-g> nice
<cmaloney> jrwren: Happy Birthday (according to Google, and I hope is related to your postings on Twitter)
<jrwren> Yes, today is my birthday. Thanks cmaloney
<cmaloney> yw
<rick_h> happy b-day jrwren, hope the "big 4-0" treats you well
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-08
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> yo
<cmaloney> Howdy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-09
<jrwren_> zee wee gaga
<rick_h_> zip dee
<jrwren_> is it friday yet?
 * rick_h_ crosses fingers
<cmaloney> Howdy
<widox> morning
<_stink_> yo
<greg-g> zip da de do da, zip da de day
<jrwren_> my oh my
<_stink_> (so many options here)
<Scary_Guy> hi
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7mhXduBwVw
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-10
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> How's the day?
<rick_h_> tgif?
<jrwren> huge tgif here.
<jrwren> longest week in a long time.
<notlikethesoup> yeah this week dragged hard
<cmaloney> Sorry to hear that
<_stink_> like the proverbial itchy cat backside eh
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> if anyone is interested my company is hosting a dev conference at ford field this october https://devone.us
<mrgoodcat> discount code dynatrace-friend for $20 tickets
<cmaloney> nice
<jrwren> you work for QL? Do you know Mike Eaton? Have I asked you already? Did we have this conversation already?
<jrwren> :)
<mrgoodcat> no i work at dynatrace
<mrgoodcat> no
<mrgoodcat> and no i dont think so
<mrgoodcat> :)
<mrgoodcat> speaker list on the site isn't complete. there is also a woman from accenture that is going to talk about accessibility, and we're in talks with aws to get a speaker from them
<notlikethesoup> hi mrgoodcat
<notlikethesoup> ;)
<mrgoodcat> hi
<havenstance> anyone in here that could explain to me in laymans terms how I'd go about building a service out of a script that doesn't kill itself after it's loaded?
<havenstance> Ubuntu 16.04 Server
<havenstance> and im just trying to make psensor-server run as a service when I added the service it would launch the program but then shut off immediately
<havenstance> I got the service working, script fail on my part
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-11
<cmaloney> evening
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<Scary_Guy> Activity?  On a Saturday?
<Scary_Guy> also,  hi
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, it can happen
<havenstance> good afternoon
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-12
 * havenstance beats face off wall
<havenstance> why does Activating Windows have to be such a nightmare?? I'm so used to just installing Ubuntu and running a few commands and it being good lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-05
<Scary_Guy> Late to the party, but I did spend all weekend at City Club.
<Scary_Guy> Well, every night at least, except tonight.
<cmaloney> sheee
<cmaloney> wheeee
<rick_h> party
<cmaloney> wheeee!!!!
<jrwren> ah, to be 20yo again. I did a lot of all weekend at city club when I was young
<rick_h> jrwren:  lol
<wolfger> Is City Club still around?
<jrwren> yes, a shadow of what it once was.
<cmaloney> Did they forget to pay the light bill?
<cmaloney> (something something shadow)
<jrwren> it was always pretty dark
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: you ever use ergo grips on your mtb?
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  ergon?
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  yea, I tried a bunch. I've ended up going revgrips
<mrgoodcat> i didn't mean ergon specifically, but ergonomic in general
<mrgoodcat> although the pair i'm looking at is ergon
<mrgoodcat> i'm having some issues with numbness in my right pinky, so i'm looking into what i can do to help that. also switching up my kb at work
<rick_h> yea, the ge1 are really popular
<mrgoodcat> ge1 is what i'm looking at
<rick_h> I might have a set in the garage, have to check
<mrgoodcat> why did you switch?
<rick_h> the ergon were better than the ones I had before but I found I still had some wrist issues
<rick_h> at that point it was like my 4th grip and I went all in on revgrips and haven't looked back
<mrgoodcat> interesting the revgrips aren't shaped. "suspension" grips...
<mrgoodcat> i've never seen anything like that
<rick_h> but folks really have a big preference, small/firm, bigger, softer, etc
<rick_h> sucks to just have to try and see what you like/works for you
<mrgoodcat> wew i thought ergon was expensive
<rick_h> yea, it's why it was put off a bit. Hard to test drive them
<mrgoodcat> this looks like a very interesting idea
<rick_h> anyway, feel free to swing by sometime and try out the ergon and see how the revgrips feel
<mrgoodcat> where is "swing by"? i assume since you do royal oak chc it must be decently close?
<rick_h> meh, exit 89 off I75
<mrgoodcat> clarkston iirc?
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> go ride pontiac lake sometime :)
<mrgoodcat> PL is great this year
<mrgoodcat> the cycletherapy folks have been putting in a ton of trail days
<rick_h> nice
<mrgoodcat> well i might have to drop by and at least feel those revgrips if i'm in that area sometime. my lbs is an ergon dealer so thats a little easier for me haha
 * cmaloney mumbles a joke about dropping by to give a drip a squeeze.
 * mrgoodcat chuckles quietly
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: do i remember correctly that at one point you were selling a santa cruz? if so did it ever sell?
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  I was looking into it. Never did sell it. My wife rides it now.
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  she's looking at getting a full squish this fall when the deals kick in hopefully
<mrgoodcat> so am i actually
<rick_h> nice
<mrgoodcat> i have a trek stache right now which i love, but its still a hardtail despite the oversize tires
<rick_h> yea, she's been renting a bike at places we go while I ride mine and she's sold on the idea of a bike to do it all
<mrgoodcat> how squishy is she going? i'm looking in the 130 range probably
<rick_h> yea, probably the same. Mine is 130 rear with overforked 150 front and we just got back from Blue Mountain bike park in Ontario
<rick_h> that 130 I've had from North Carolina, black mountain trail, to oregon alpine trail, and down to south africa and it's gotten me up and down it all
<mrgoodcat> i've been renting DH bikes at the parks. I'm not going to get anything that travels that far though
<rick_h> oh yea, for sure. my next bike might be in the 140-145 range but part of that is my size/heft and I want to go coil in the rear
<mrgoodcat> too hard to get uphill for anything over 140
<rick_h> maybe 130-140 if I go 29er
<mrgoodcat> why coil?
<rick_h> Yea, definitely pay a price.
<rick_h> so with my size coil provides a better starting point. I don't have to jack air pressure up so hard
<rick_h> I have to run my dpx2 around 230+ psi
<rick_h> which is just too far outside the normal range. It can be a bit too much of a rock on smaller stuff
<rick_h> coil you can adapt the spring and get to a good starting point. I put a coil up front and love it
<mrgoodcat> only coil i've ridden is DH bikes in CO
<rick_h> but if I did a coil in the rear I'd have to go the mrp progressive coil and the 2" of actual travel just isn't much for it to work with in the shock
<mrgoodcat> a giant something-or-other with a coil last year
<rick_h> Yea, giant bikes aren't great though. My wife's now rented 3 and she'd rather ride mine all day long
<mrgoodcat> i just ordered an mrp ramp control cart for my fork
<rick_h> it's a nice setup
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-06
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h> prty
<rick_h> party
<cmaloney> prty too
<_stink_> i'll name my new startup "prty"
<_stink_> prty.ai
<_stink_> do you think i'll get some funding then
<cmaloney> In 2008
<_stink_> the tld makes it modern
<cmaloney> Ah, right
<cmaloney> and it's .ai
<cmaloney> Yeah, you'll probably get series A for it
<_stink_> can't miss!  send your money my way.
<cmaloney> The one thing your parties are missing is AI
<cmaloney> "Alexa, drop the bass!"
<_stink_> psh it just watches the dance floor for people leaving
<_stink_> or less energetic dancing
<_stink_> it'll even stereotype the dancers and make assumptions about the kind of music they like
<cmaloney> Series B!
<_stink_> i'm running a lean organization here, so i'll go ahead and spend all that money on trip to the mediterranean
<cmaloney> research!
<cmaloney> I'm sure you'll have to go to a lot of parties to do that kind of research
<_stink_> yeah i18n research
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-10
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-05
<jrwren> wow... https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/i3xbjb/rant_sorta_physically_moved_a_server_today/
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> that's awesome and horrifying
<cmaloney> https://jitsi.decafbad.net/CoffeeHouseCodersRoyalOak
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-06
<Scary_Guy> I saw the 0 downtime server on HN, was a good read.  I liked the comment about the frozen server with a stuck fan that the guy greased with mayo from his sandwich he got along the way to fix it.
<Scary_Guy> Also this is the part where I complain about not using old.reddit.com for the link.  I do have a plugin to redirect such links though so not a huge deal.
<jrwren> lul
<rick_h> jrwren:  that post misses the delaying of updates, the fact that we had broken apt updates to grub for a day last week that rendered systems unbootable, anyway, pick your poison. It all breaks eventually heh
<cmaloney> I thought that how Canonical handled the grub2 breakage was quite good
<cmaloney> I'm also grateful that I wasn't bit by it
<jrwren> which post?
<rick_h> sorry, the snap refresh one
 * rick_h doesn't look at irc as much as he should since work moved to mattermost
<jrwren> from weeks ago?
<rick_h> oh, was it weeks? It's like 10 lines up in the history lol
<jrwren> oh, July 31, so just 1 week
<rick_h> it says -- Wed, 05 Aug 2020 (Fri, 31 Jul 2020) --
<rick_h> so guess I thought it was yesterday but maybe it was before that
<jrwren> It was Friday.
<rick_h> weechat date confusion fail
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> It would be cool if there was an update setting that ignored security issues of local priv escalation.
<cmaloney> Mattermost fail. :)
<jrwren> if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I dno't need any updates except remote compromise.
<jrwren> but... *shrug*
<jrwren> use of containers basically mitigates all of this.
<cmaloney> I think the main reason I'm not a fan of snaps is it's a developer deciding what's important to me
<jrwren> the issue gets pushed to whatever runs the OS that runs the containers :)
<rick_h> ? that's basically what snaps are
<cmaloney> rather than me deciding what is important to me
<jrwren> WAT?
<rick_h> snaps are basically containers with isolation of the workload, libs, etc. I guess if we're not talking about --classic (e.g. dangerous) snaps
<jrwren> cmaloney: I mean... the devs who push to a PPA are deciding what is important to you too.
<rick_h> right, there's always someone else in control
<cmaloney> jrwren: True, but I can also pin a version if I want
<cmaloney> I get final say on this
<jrwren> cmaloney: you can also build yourself if you want to, and checkout the source and build previous versoins... can't do that with snap
<cmaloney> You're making my point for me. :)
<rick_h> bah, can't find popey's post
<rick_h> why can't you build your own snap and sideload?
<jrwren> cmaloney: your are welcome
<cmaloney> how do I build Chrome?
<cmaloney> or Scribus?
<cmaloney> (Scribus is a bad example)
<cmaloney> Skype?
<jrwren> oh, snap has a lot of the technical ability, but in practice with teh way teh store is setup... the answer is far too often "can't"
<jrwren> or the trade-off isn't worth it
<cmaloney> I'm sure there's a version of tootstream out there when Canonical had the big push to snap all the things
<cmaloney> and it hasn't been maintained in two years
<cmaloney> but it'll be offered to someone at some point
<jrwren> if it works for some people and increases their productivity, then good.
<jrwren> I only know it is not for me.
<jrwren> It is kinda like cocaine or amphetemines.
<jrwren> is sideloaded snaps how all the openstack snaps are being used?
<jrwren> or is juju openstack not snap by default yet?
<jrwren> or juju k8s?
<cmaloney> I mean, I think snaps are a good idea, but the implementation rubs me the wrong way
<jrwren> well, which part is a good idea?
<jrwren> I'm not convinced, because IMO they do nothing that couldn't also be done with debs.
<cmaloney> containerized runtime for certain applications
<cmaloney> and yes
<cmaloney> I'm happier with PPAs than snaps by a country mile
<jrwren> oh... are snaps actually run in namespaces now? because "container" could mean just a chroot, like snap, or it could be namespaced
<cmaloney> I thought snaps were akin to LXC with privileges
<cmaloney> but me being confused is more likely
<jrwren> with systemd's support for containers, its almost trivial to containerize an app in one way or nother.
<jrwren> i've not followed snaps for a few yrs. maybe they are now. but previously i dno't think they were namespaced, just chrooted
<cmaloney> honestly appimage also seems like the way to go for hoary applications
<cmaloney> kinda like Apple's applications
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> debs already had/has that in a large part with chrome deb as an example
<jrwren> its own TLS, its own SQLite
<jrwren> complete exception to the Debian philosophy, and that is OK IMO.
<jrwren> you have to draw the line on what is your platform.
<jrwren> for me, for many years that line has been linux+glibc, anything outside of that I've always considered part of my app, I have to be VERY aware of those dependencies.
<jrwren> the mixing of those deps is always what a distro has solved.
<jrwren> we are learning or have learned varying ways to solve it, but haven't gone the full macos - ship your own - the platform deps are much smaller, just yet.
<cmaloney> I've not looked at Chrome's .deb, so that is interesting
<jrwren> oh yeah, take a look.
<jrwren> their own.... LOTS of things.
<cmaloney> Makes sense
<jrwren> many of the libs statically linked, separate from the system shipped versions of the same thing.
<jrwren> This is a large part of why I dislike snap so much. It is based on a lie that it is too difficult to package this and that, and other debs are the example. It is too difficult if you go full debian-standard no duplicate libraries, but if you ignore that and ship your own dep libs, it is far less difficult.
<cmaloney> it feels like an end-run around Docker
<cmaloney> without any of the "advantages" of Docker
<cmaloney> Honestly I'm taking the "wait until it passes" approach
<jrwren> same. no reason to adopt unless there are clear benefits.
<cmaloney> I think LXC is brilliant. Snaps? Less so.
<jrwren> lxc was brilliant until it became snap only. :p
<cmaloney> eh?
<jrwren> the best version of docker is podman.
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> Oh, right. I'm still living in the past so lxc is not snaps for me. :)
<jrwren> apt  install lxc just installs the snap.
<cmaloney> Yeah, screw that
<cmaloney> I'll go with Vagrant then
<cmaloney> for me LXC occupies the same space as Vagrant
<cmaloney> and if LXC becomes less fun to use then Vagrant then LXC loses.
<jrwren> ugh, so heavy weight.
<jrwren> what is that hashi deploy tool. I hear they target some varying container solutions now.
<cmaloney> not sure
<cmaloney> and yeah, VirtualBox is a bit heavy. That's why I ported one of my processes to lxc
<jrwren> i need vim help! how to replace characters in a subs?
<jrwren> s/ ../prefix\1suffix/  what should \1 be there?
<cmaloney> what are you looking to do?
<jrwren> bah, I guess I can do it with multiple s/ commands.
<jrwren> i wanted to take teh `2d 2d 2d 00 0a` style output from hexdump and... why didn't i just use sed???
<jrwren> hrm... i'm not sure how to do it with sed either. lol.
<jrwren> doesn't matter, I used vim and a few s/ commands.
<jrwren> oh... i wanted to take `2d 2d 2d 00 0a` style output from hexdump and turn it into a Go byte literal, so add 0x prefix and , suffix. => `0x2d, 0x2d, 0x2d, 0x00, 0x0a`
<cmaloney> Ah, neat
<cmaloney> yeah, I'm not sure how to do that without programming something
<jrwren> your reply now 30min later made me try again...
<jrwren> i didn't escape the () to create a backref, cuz vim.
<jrwren> :s/ \(..\)/0x\1,/g  works
<cmaloney> <3
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-07
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngcMaKysprM
<cmaloney> ahoy
