#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-25
<jrmy> food coma?
<jrmy> as in eating?
<jrmy> never heard that before
<jjesse> you ate a bunch and are now so tired you don't want to do anything but sleep
<jrmy> i'd love to be able to have one of those.. no wonder ive never heard of it xD
<snap-l> Finally home
<snap-l> ugh, tired
<jjesse> sounds like a busy day
<snap-l> was up @ 7am
<snap-l> just now getting back from parents
<jjesse> wow
<rick_h__> snap-l: welcome back to the world
<snap-l> rick_h__: It's good to be back
<wolfger> morning
<rick_h__> party part
<rick_h__> http://blogs.gnome.org/xclaesse/2011/04/25/one-week-with-gnome3/
<rick_h__> interesting read of the morning
<brousch> i put a different interesting rad up on the twitter
<rick_h__> yea, nice read
<rick_h__> love how netflix does that
<brousch> it is pretty awesome to be so confident in your architecture that you intentionally kill it at random
<rick_h__> yea, but they had much fewer issues than the rest with the AWS outage
<brousch> i cross my fingers and sacrafice a bottle of rum and chicken to jobu when i go on vacation
<brousch> they so few problems because they build failure correction into evetything. it is amazing
<brousch> heh, ctrl-del to delete a file in nautilus? they took that from osx where you use cmd-del
<rick_h__> yea, that one was one I stopped on for a minute
<rick_h__> I was thinking he meant like shift-delete to skip the bin
<rick_h__> but then realized no...to really just delete to trash del doesn't work :(
<brousch> it doesn't annoy me any more than windows' "are you sure you want to delete this?"
<rick_h__> well I think the point of discoverability is valid
<rick_h__> and at least delete still deletes, just asks you some questions first :)
<brousch> it's valid. i had to google how to delete in osx
<tjagoda> Poor Playbook
<tjagoda> It is such an awesome tablet
<rick_h__> lol
<tjagoda> being covered by such an Apple zealous body of journalists
<rick_h__> it takes a good eye to really appreciate
<tjagoda> Seriously, thing is awesome
<tjagoda> interface and OS are rock solid
<tjagoda> And any journalist asshat whom expects something to have 300,000 applications on launch day is a tard
<rick_h__> come on, even BB admits it's not 'solid as a rock' as it's getting changes all the time post-release
<tjagoda> I think we have different defintions of solid
<tjagoda> When I say solid I'm referring to the actual function of the OS
<rick_h__> which they're adding to/changing since it's not solid yet
<tjagoda> which I have not yet experienced a bug in, with the exception of one or two web pages which do a peer reset
<rick_h__> a good base maybe? (hard to say that without a non BB email client..but ok)
<tjagoda> Most of their changes seem to be based on feedback
<tjagoda> Which I see as a good thing
<tjagoda> People complained about the hard powerbutton being hard to get at (which it isnt after it's been broken in by being pushed a few times)
<tjagoda> So an update pushed out a soft power button
<tjagoda> Stuff like that
<tjagoda> From a threat-management standpoint, bridge-only email is kind of a feature - but only if your workforce is blackberry equipped
<tjagoda> When bridged, the tablet never gets physical copies of the mail anywhere on the device
<rick_h__> right, and only if they get all of their email on their BB...so it's a corp device then, not a personal one
<tjagoda> so you're not adding another mobile device for your workers to loose and compromise
<rick_h__> right, which means if I forget, dont' feel like tethering (battery anyone) etc it sucks
<tjagoda> Well yes, but I did start off by framing this entire thing from a corporate perspective
<tjagoda> And the bluetooth tethering hasn't very adversly affected my battery life
<rick_h__> right, but you're knocking journalists who are not on BB companies that frame it as "I'd not give up my iPad2 for this crap"
<tjagoda> I just shut it off when I don't want to look at mail, as the contorls to do so from the tablet are quick adn easy
<rick_h__> any wireless radio adversly affects battery unless you've found magic radio wave generation
<tjagoda> /adversely/ affects
<rick_h__> bah, whatever. Not going there this morning. Enjoy your new business toy
<tjagoda> I don't suddenly have to charge my phone halfway through the day now that I turn bluetooth on
<tjagoda> Thing is pretty cool
<tjagoda> Will be even more cool as they continue to push out updates
<tjagoda> I was surprised by how well it sold on launch day despite the shit storm of press it got, to be honest
<jrwren> BB gave away PB to anyone who wrote apps. Even stupid apps. I know 2 guys that have 'em.
<tjagoda> A lot of stuff is supposed to start filling in in early May from what I've read on froums
<snap-l> tjagoda: Really hope they don't get Palm disease, where the apps are easy to write, and impossible to distribute unless you're a company.
<tjagoda> I have actually seen a lot of stuff from one-man devs
<tjagoda> which refer to themselves by name and not my LLC
<tjagoda> so that is encouraging
<tjagoda> not by*
<brousch> i would think these security-obessed corporate fascists would not want apps from long-haired hippie devs
<jrwren> I'm just not sure the business market is big enough for them to thrive.
<snap-l> Went to staples a few days after Playbook launch. Saw that they were selling it, but also saw an empty double-sided sticky post where a Playbook should have been
<tjagoda> I pre-ordered mine from best buy online
<jrwren> but it might be a huge success in the non business market that is BB obsessed.
<tjagoda> The in-store displays are lacking, indicating that RIM really might not entirely care about the consumer market
<snap-l> I just hope that like the iPhone market filled the void of fart and flashlight apps, the Playbook can fill the void of eMail apps.
<tjagoda> Amazon had low-stock of the playbook yesterday
<tjagoda> Which encourages me as to its pace of sales
<snap-l> tjagoda: Artificial scarcity
<snap-l> common tactic in retail
<tjagoda> If it works for nintendo, it works for RIM!
<snap-l> ship low numbers, then say that it's sold out
<snap-l> gets journalists to write the obligatory "blah blah has sold out"
<snap-l> and folks then take notice.
<snap-l> Which is why I don't pay any attention to items that are based off of units shipped (Billboard) or blah blah sold out first week of release
<tjagoda> I wish RIM would report sales sooner than their quarterly earnings
<tjagoda> I'd like to see how the pace did after the first day pre-order impact
<snap-l> tjagoda: Why? They like their stock to go up
<snap-l> reporting those numbers before quarterly earnings will do bad things for a stock
<tjagoda> I'd assume it would be going down, from the shitstorm of negative press though?
<snap-l> You leak it out gradually
<tjagoda> Then again
<tjagoda> there is always room for more down
<tjagoda> They really need a better playbook spokesman though
<tjagoda> the Co-CEO thing just doesn't do it justice
<tjagoda> Lazaridis especially
<brousch> some sexy and business-oriented
<brousch> like donald trump
<tjagoda> They have J-Lo
<brousch> i nomnate donald trump as the spokesman for the playbook
<tjagoda> That would be epic
<snap-l> If Trump == Sexy, then I'll decidedly be unsexy
<tjagoda> I'd buy two more just because I could
<brousch> snap-l: you're sexier than trump!
<snap-l> tjagoda: Then sales would jump 100%
<tjagoda> rofl =P
<tjagoda> It's very good at media consumption
<brousch> you can't have trump without the wig, just like you can't have a playbook without the bb
<tjagoda> podcast library it comes with is pretty big
<tjagoda> And it's music store is non-DRM and native MP3
<tjagoda> no proprietary apple format that the iPod uses
<tjagoda> Can you access the iPad as a network share?
<snap-l> the problem with the playbook is iy just feels... desperate
<tjagoda> Not after you've sat down using it for a few days it doesn't
<tjagoda> Feels powerful then
<tjagoda> Interface is really well done honestly
<tjagoda> blackberry fan or not
<tjagoda> there is no denying that
<tjagoda> They did not screw up the use-the-bezel-to-navigate thing
<snap-l> tjagoda: I mean they screwed up the marketing message
<tjagoda> I do not disagree with you there
<tjagoda> Co-CEO's did a pretty bad job of trying to clear it up
<snap-l> If this had come out around the time of the iPad, and before the glut of Android tablets, this would be remarkable
<snap-l> unfortunately, it's got Windows Phone 7 disease.
<snap-l> "me too"
<snap-l> "we're still relevant"
<tjagoda> WinMo was relevant ever?
<tjagoda> =(
<brousch> indeed, back when bb was
<tjagoda> brousch: pish
<tjagoda> WinMo was never up in corporate grace like BB
<brousch> i personally used more winmo devices than bb. 1-0
<tjagoda> I used one winMo phone and regreted it's purchase for the entierty I owned it
<brousch> mine wasn't a phone. i guess it was a pda
<brousch> but it had bluetooth and a bluetooth modem and vnc so i could do stuff remotely, back in 2000
<tjagoda> http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2010/03/10/windows-mobile-market-share-drops-like-a-rock/
<brousch> maybe 2001
<tjagoda> That chart is clearly pre-androidapalooza
<snap-l> Regardless of the tablet's strengths, they've branded this (intentionally or not) as the tablet device for Blackberry users
<snap-l> That's an awful way to marginalize yor customers
<tjagoda> There are still 50 million of them
<tjagoda> So I guess its not a bad segment to target
<tjagoda> but I still wish they wouldn't have'
<tjagoda> If not just to get the blackberry name out infront of people again
<snap-l> tjagoda: You have underdog's disease.
<snap-l> I get it a lot
<snap-l> Where you want whatever product to succeed despite reality. :)
<tjagoda> It worked with AMD
<tjagoda> =(
<snap-l> Which is why I was rooting for the 3DO, Palm, Linux... :)
<tjagoda> And its good day 1 launch sales only serve to enable me =(
<snap-l> I wonder how many of those are non-journalist purchases.
<snap-l> I suspect a healthy number of those were journalist / blogger sales, along with "will it blend". ;)
<tjagoda> Now you're just trying to troll =P
<snap-l> and folks who have been waiting for Blackberry's answer to Android
<tjagoda> My parents played with my Playbook for a bit
<tjagoda> And then promptly went out and bought one for themselves
<tjagoda> So I say the device has the potential to still not suck
<rick_h__> because they have corporate BB phones?
<rick_h__> or because they don't use email or calendaring?
<rick_h__> :P
<snap-l> rick_h__: ++
<rick_h__> man, you tgalk out of both sides it's driving me nuts
<snap-l> (couldn't type that out quickly enough)
<rick_h__> "it's not for consumers, give it a break!" ... "Oh, it so cool anyone should want one and my parents got one"
<tjagoda> They have no interest in pairing it with their BB devices
<snap-l> tjagoda: They actually own BBs?
<rick_h__> how big a check do they send you?
<tjagoda> My dad does, my mom does not
<rick_h__> tjagoda: issued, he needs to keep them secure you know, all those important grandkid texts
<tjagoda> My dad is the operations manager
<snap-l> Do they give them out free after purchasing ten Tim Hortons coffees?
<tjagoda> I WISH THEY DID
<tjagoda> Could have saved a ton
<tjagoda> =P
<snap-l> [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][BB]
<snap-l> tjagoda: Operations manager at the company that you're working at?
<tjagoda> Yeah, when I started here as an intern he was my boss
<tjagoda> I now work for his boss
<snap-l> tjagoda: So he's got incentive to stick with BB
<tjagoda> I wouldn't say that had an impact on his tablet decision
<snap-l> and if I had a BB, I might consider the Playbook
<snap-l> tjagoda: Bull
<tjagoda> He doesn't have an interest in pairing his phone to it
<tjagoda> Liked the size of it more than anything
<snap-l> Did he compare it with anything else?
<tjagoda> He looked at the tablet's best buy stocks
<tjagoda> so that's iPad for sure
<tjagoda> do they stock the android stuff?
<snap-l> Oh, so the Xoom, Dell's patetique
<snap-l> and the Samsung Galaxy
<snap-l> if he's cheap like I am, he'd have bought the playbook
<snap-l> I don't think they make you buy a plan, do they?
<tjagoda> No, it's wifi
<tjagoda> all carrier neutral at this point
<rick_h__> you mean it just tethers with BB and ATT won't let you so hope you're on Verizon if you want network access that's not wifi?
<snap-l> Well, not really
<snap-l> I don't think any of the other tablets they sell at BB come without a contract
<tjagoda> I mean some people don't have an interest in using it as a 3G device
<snap-l> at least they don't make it obvious
<tjagoda> And are perfectly content using it on Wifi
<snap-l> I'm perfectly content in running stuff on wifi, but I think the BB is the nly tablet advertised as such
<snap-l> so no wonder they bought it
<tjagoda> Just like my parents don't care about calendars and native mail
<tjagoda> because they use webmail anyway
<snap-l> Apparently they don't care about Angry Birds either. ;)
<tjagoda> Nah, not into the games
<snap-l> If you'd shown them that, they would have bought Android.
<tjagoda> It does have a few neat games of its own though
<snap-l> It's not a game, it's crystal meth
<tjagoda> Nothing so big as Angry Birds
<snap-l> tjagoda: Solitaire?
<brousch> corporate strategy and espionage games?
<tjagoda> It's got some neat sketch games
<tjagoda> Puzzel like sketch game where you try to get the marble/ball to an endpoint
<tjagoda> Kind of addicting
<tjagoda> Actually does have solitare
<snap-l> "Let's go Org-chart", the exciting game where you reorgainze the departments
<tjagoda> Need for Speed ships on the tablet
<brousch> but all the cars are replaced with corporate fleet vehicles?
<tjagoda> If they are, then we have the wrong corporate fleet
<brousch> ford escort vs natural gas honda civic!
<snap-l> brousch: You've selected Escort with the wobbly brakes
<tjagoda> rofl
<snap-l> Racing a rental car fleet.
<tjagoda> It's fun
<tjagoda> you steer by tilting the tablet
<snap-l> "You've been upgraded to: Economy"
<tjagoda> its obvious they polished it highly because they new it would be the default ship game
<jcastro> nixternal: hmm, persia responded again
<jcastro> ninkendo: weird, he's still in the company directory
<snap-l> "Hit T to enable the toll-booth receiver"
<tjagoda> I'm surprised by how little pairing my BB affects my battery though
<tjagoda> I did expect that it would drain the device quic
<tjagoda> quick
<jrmy> morning
<tjagoda> Hallo
<jrmy> actually had a full breakfast today
<jrmy> should be plenty when i want to walk to my friends house to pick up my $10
<jrmy> sheesh.. you guys really dont talk
<tjagoda> Hah
<tjagoda> you missed it when I incited rick's rage earlier by loving BB
<tjagoda> =P
<jrmy> BB? as in a bb gun?
<wolfger> Rant, rick_h__, rant!
<tjagoda> BB as in Blackberry
<rick_h__> wolfger: no, I don't have the arm strength to hold up the faboi mirror to fanboi's in denial this monday
<jrmy> but nah.. i wouldnt be up right now if i didnt want to buy the subway deal they have right now
<tjagoda> BS, it's just rage because I don't make out with Android =P
<snap-l> tjagoda: Right, because your tongue is far down BB's throat. ;)
<tjagoda> Never French your corporate overlords.
<jrmy> phones..
<jrmy> any of you have the bacon egg whatever it is at subway before?
<tjagoda> You seem entirely to obsessed with this subway deal
<jrmy> im probably the only one on this channel just uses the channel.. sigh* why do i have to have such a slow computer
<jrmy> that would be a misunderstanding
<jrmy> im just trying to get someoen to talk to me
<jrmy> that*
<jrmy> i hope i can get more ram soon.. i hate how slow it is with only 256
<tjagoda> Most of us work/IRC at the same time
<tjagoda> So we're slow in the response
<jrmy> yeah so im probably the only one without a job
<jrmy> ironically this is what i do when im bored and have nothing else to do
 * jrmy shakes his head
<jrmy> lol i should mess my computer up to give me something to do for a few hours
<tjagoda> This procedure is not recommended.
<jrmy> eh..
<jrmy> i get to ask questions, google things and learn something in the process.. cant be that bad
<_stink_> even better - learn to write code
<jrmy> yeah if i actually take time to learn a language
<jrmy> i gave up on python
<tjagoda> Would probably be time better spent than what you're doing now. ;)
<brousch> start with static web pages if python gives you problems
<brousch> html, css, javascript
<jrmy> probably.. but i also prefer sleeping at night, lol
<tjagoda> You are unemployed
<tjagoda> Adopt the coder/hacker sleep cycle
<tjagoda> =P
<brousch> also things like pictures and vector images
<tjagoda> I have no idea what that means brousch
<tjagoda> How do you learn pictures?
<tjagoda> =(
<jrmy> lol
<brousch> photoshop/gimp
<brousch> image manipulation
<jrmy> right
<tjagoda> ahh
<brousch> inkscape and gimp for the freedom lovers
<brousch> so make static web pages, sprinkle in javascript, learn more javascript, now you have some useful skills to build on
<jrmy> my real production would be from making electronic devices not internet based things
<jrmy> video games though i'd also maybe be interested in
<brousch> go play with flash then
<jrmy> which is why i chose python initially
<brousch> although you can make games entirely using html5
<brousch> i have no advice for making electronic devices
<jrmy> its just the programming that i'd want to learn first the rest can be learned elsewhere
<greg-g> jrmy: so, what is your plan for learning how to program? Do you need any book suggestions? They tend to be pretty good for these things. Also, have you checked out MIT OCW? This course is intro to programming, and it looks like it focuses on Python http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-fall-2008/ (you may find that people in this channel recommend python, as well
<_stink_> IME, you just have to pick something - anything! - and friggin write it.
<_stink_> anything.
<brousch> _stink_ ++
<_stink_> slog through it and learn on the fly.  if the end product sucks, leave it for a while, and try a new anything.
<brousch> you have to have a project in mind and then do it
<_stink_> eventually you'll do something useful for you.
<_stink_> then you make it better.
<brousch> reading books is more useful after you have some idea of how it works
<_stink_> fosho
<greg-g> word
<snap-l> Yeah, I'd say the only way that I learn is via immersion
<snap-l> Just start working on something in an environment that you know you can't break (ie: not production or mission critical)
<snap-l> and read up on what you discover
<snap-l> because you never know what you don't know until you don't know it. :)
<_stink_> and don't worry about writing the 'app' you think will make you money or something.  write ANYTHING
<snap-l> We've all been there, so we can give you pointers and guidance
<_stink_> you will probably throw it away or totally rewrite it in a year when you know much better.
<snap-l> Just don't be afraid, that's all
<jrmy> back.. sorry i didnt set away
<snap-l> heh
<jrmy> yeah, well the thing with python there was so much to learn.. even on the basic level.. and with the mentality of a child with school for instance i didnt find much reason in learning some of the things if i didnt know if it would help for making a game
<jrmy> seeing as with a language you can write just about anything
<jrmy> i wonder which version of python is recommended now
<brousch> 2.7
<brousch> so start writing the game, and when you can't figure out how to do something, look it up on google or in a book
<jrmy> hmm.. i was going to learn 2.6 when i started
<brousch> not a big difference
<jrmy> ffuu...
<brousch> just stay away from 3 for now
<_stink_> 2.6, 2.7, either one.
<jrmy> i think 2.6 is still on my system.. does 2.7 have enough libraries?
<jrmy> or if its called something else..
<brousch> just use 2.6 then
<brousch> it really doesn't matter at this point
<jrmy> been over half a year since i used this computer
<jrmy> oh yeah.. i remembered i figured out how to make an looping number
<jrmy> just keeps going up and up.. or down if i wanted
<jrmy> until you kill the program
<jrmy> it was rather amusing.. totally forgot how to make the loop though
<greg-g> good start, I remember writing the "Joe Sucks, Greg Rocks" and repeating that on the screen forever in BASIC back in elementary school
<greg-g> (Joe was the kid who sat next to me)
<jrmy> lol
<jrmy> i think i remember it being if x>0 print or something
<greg-g> luckily, finding out how to write "a loop" in python is just a google search away
<jrmy> i actually had to think for a long time
<jrmy> even after googling.. there really was nothing on loops
<jrmy> it was cool i figured it out though
<jrmy> even with very little do go on
<greg-g> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/controlflow.html#for-statements
<_stink_> greg-g: that is classic.
<greg-g> http://diveintopython.org/file_handling/for_loops.html
<jrmy> i think the only way how im really going to get into it.. is if i have info on how to make a specific thing.. not with instructions but to be taught all of the things i need to make that specific thing
<greg-g> "not with instructions but to be taught" what do you mean by that?
<jrmy> which could be alot.. but yeah, im pretty sure i'll move on to something else quite quickly if theres no spark of interest.. and interest continuing
<jrmy> as in im not told exactly how to make it step by step
<jrmy> instructions in other words
<jrmy> maybe i should write a bot for a channel or something
<wolfger> Sure. Something, anything. Pick a task, write a program to do it.
<wolfger> just don't write an annoying channel bot and bring it in here :-)
<jrmy> lol, of course.. i wouldnt do that (snickers)
<wolfger> Write one for #ubuntu that asks "Is Natty out yet?" every 5 minutes on launch day. Nobody will ever know it's a bot. :-)
<jrmy> nah im not that dumb. i liek talking on here.. getting banned would suck
<jrmy> lol, ok
<greg-g> now anyone can be a programmer! http://duiker101.tk/hackertyper/ (just start typing)
<rick_h__> greg-g: crap, but I wanted python
<tjagoda> rofl
<wolfger> I want to start writing LOLcode
<wolfger> I think it would be an awesome language to write a usable program in, just to say I did it. :-p
<ColonelPanic001> I keep meaning to get a physical copy of the LOLCAT Bible
<wolfger> ++
<wolfger> and go door-to-door with it
<jrmy> lol
<snap-l> http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/4959481-452/are-the-blackberry-playbook-and-lg-g-slate-ready-to-take-on-ipad2.html
<wolfger> "Good morning, miss. Have you received the word of the Ceiling Cat into your heart?"
<jrmy> lol
<jrmy> i'd have to laugh hard if someone actually walked up to my door and did that
<tjagoda> I don't buy all those people saying you cant have a tablet without a 10 inch screen
<tjagoda> I don't /want/ a 10-inch
<jrmy> i prefer a "handheld"
<tjagoda> The 7 inch is just right for me to be able to type with thumbs in portrait mode
<jrmy> the ipad is too big
<tjagoda> Yet big enough to make me not feel crimped for screen space
<jrmy> i can agree that 7 inches is plenty
<jrmy> ..dirty jokes... sheesh
<jrmy> lol
 * jrmy shakes his head
<wolfger> I love the way that article basically says "these tablets suck because they aren't iPads" without actually mentioning any way in which the iPad is superior.
<jrmy> ok.. im not goign to go on with making dirty jokes..
<jrmy> hard to hold back...
<tjagoda> wolfger: I have seen that theme in almost all of the tablet review I've read so far
<tjagoda> Apple coats the devices in cocaine
<brousch> no, it's more relaxing than cocaine
<wolfger> LSD
<brousch> it makes you feel good without exploding your heart
<wolfger> absorbed through the skin, and they don't even realize they're tripping
<jrmy> lol
<jrmy> you guys...
<brousch> pulverized marijuana?
<wolfger> brousch: that's not mind-altering enough to explain people's opinions
<wolfger> or so I've heard
<greg-g> wolfger++
<brousch> shut up, man. i can quit whenever i want to
<jrmy> lol
 * wolfger wonders if brousch is referring to his addiction to the iPad, or ???
<brousch> apple products
<brousch> though really i just use the laptops
<wolfger> and here I thought snap-l was the fanboy...
<brousch> i like to deflect the apple-love to him so i suffer less
<tjagoda> I remember when jcastro was willing to kill people for switching Mac
<tjagoda> Those were the days
<jcastro> was?
<tjagoda> Well
<tjagoda> He at least threatens less publicly
<tjagoda> =P
<tjagoda> I need to find a job at canonical
<tjagoda> Before I get promoted in charge of our sales office's IT
<tjagoda> DO NOT WANT 40 more users
<tjagoda> specifically becasue they're salesmen
<brousch> my pants are tight http://www.androidcentral.com/asus-eeepad-transformer-review
<tjagoda> There is no way that isn't fragile
<brousch> i have a soft spot for eeepc. i still like my 901
<tjagoda> Want to buy a system76 netbook?
<tjagoda> It's still new
<tjagoda> I don't need it now that I have the tablet
<jrmy> should i hope i dont get the same interests as you guys in certain electronics?
<jrmy> as for now i find the phones boring
<brousch> smartphones are boring?
<tjagoda> I am an IT guy
<jrmy> and other related
<tjagoda> I find no technology boring
<jrmy> smartphones are meh to me
<brousch> they are the future
<jrmy> i'd rather own a ds
<brousch> if they bore you, you are in the wrong field
<tjagoda> Amen
<tjagoda> Or you're really young
<brousch> like 10 years old
<jrmy> an iphone i suppose is neat
<jrmy> but even then just to play games doesnt seem to be enough
<wolfger> brousch: I did not know that you were Captain Tightpants...
<tjagoda> If you buy a phone just to play games
<jrmy> when its predocessors aka the handheld game systems are much better
<tjagoda> or evaluate your phone purchase as such
<tjagoda> you are doing it wrong
<brousch> you've got the whole damn internet, all the information in the world, in your pocket available at all times from anywhere.
<jrmy> well what else is there besides its actual use, talking?
<brousch> talking is for old people
<brousch> it is a computer in your pants
<jrmy> oh wow i can surf the internet on my phone.. big deal
<tjagoda> ..why do you use Linux?
<jrmy> its not a laptop.. so i dont care
<brousch> my phone has a keyboard, wifi, and applications. it's a tiny laptop
<tjagoda> Because I get the feeling that your only interest in electronics is gaming
<tjagoda> and Linux is not conducive to gaming
<jrmy> yet to figure it out.. but currently because i have no other choice in an os
<tjagoda> Ah
<tjagoda> That would explain a bit then
<jrmy> linux is free
<jrmy> i do liek the idea of a mobile computer but a phone is not enough for me
<brousch> the phone is just to keep the old people happy. i talk like 15 minutes/mo
<jrmy> besides im annoyed when i have to use a keyboard that is too small for my fingers
<brousch> try one of the alternative soft keyboards
<tjagoda> I have using my phone as a phone
<tjagoda> hate*
<tjagoda> Talking is so last century.
<jrmy> also i cant use it to record music
<jrmy> so once more not as useful to me
<jrmy> and im not using spelled backwards scam
<jrmy> lol
<brousch> i record videos and sound with my phone
<jrmy> hows quality?
<brousch> good enough for me
<jrmy> can you get at least 41khz?
<jrmy> sound wise
<brousch> i have no idea
<tjagoda> Your phone is not a laptop
<tjagoda> it isn't meant to replace a laptop
<tjagoda> its meant to supplement a laptop
<tjagoda> your technological viewpoint is incorrect
<tjagoda> =P
<rick_h__> then what's a tablet :P
<jrmy> supplement eh?
<tjagoda> A tablet gets closer to laptop replacement, but I personally still see it as a supplement
<jrmy> whats the point when my laptop's battery can last just as long as my phone?
<jrmy> well netbook in this case
<tjagoda> I don't have to wait 5 minutes and require a table to use my phone
<jrmy> seeing as a smaller netbook may be the choice
<wolfger> a tablet is an oversized smartphone
<wolfger> or a netbook without a keyboard, depending on your point of view
<krondor> phone/tablet w/ microhdmi dock support + bluetooth keyboard / mouse + vnc/rdp or vdi == no laptop needed. microhdmi not even needed in the larger screen real estate of a tablet I guess..
<jrmy> do suppose some laptops take 5mins to start up.. rather a long time imo
<wolfger> I put netbooks, the current generation of tablets, and smart phones all into one category
<wolfger> laptops and desktops (i.e. "real computers") into another
<jrmy> well wehat do you guys use netbooks/phones/tablets for?
<tjagoda> My tablet replaces the place my netbook had in my technology lineup
<jrmy> what*
<tjagoda> I use my tablet for when I want to be mobile but still able to browse easily
<tjagoda> My phone is always with me, and does 90% of my emailing and tweeting
<jrmy> specifically speaking
<tjagoda> and occasional surfing when I need to look something up
<tjagoda> Laptop is used when I need to seriously work somewhere mobile, and know I'll need the keyboard/mouse interface
<tjagoda> Desktop is only used for gaming
<jrmy> am i shunned for liking to use an old schhol book called a dictionary?
<wolfger> yes
<tjagoda> I have a dictionary in my phone
<tjagoda> along with the entire internet
<jrmy> ah.. but you guys forget the fun in using a dictionary
<tjagoda> paper is SO LAST CENTURY
<wolfger> paper versions of dictionaries get outdated too quickly, and/or are not complete enough
<jrmy> you even learn more words when you look for your word
<jrmy> guess im oldschool irnoically
<brousch> i like to use a thesaurus instead of a dictionary. then i learn new words as i look for my word, and can quickly find a better word
<tjagoda> Yeah, if I need more words I use a thesaurus
<tjagoda> which is, you know, what it's meant for..
<wolfger> When I was growing up, my family had an unabridged dictionary. That sucker was HUGE.
<brousch> http://thesaurus.com/
<wolfger> and the language has grown.
<tjagoda> I challenge you to carry around the OED
<tjagoda> =P
<wolfger> but the dictionaries you buy at the local bookstore are smaller than some novels
<wolfger> I use a page-a-day calendar to teach me words I didn't already know :-)
<wolfger> speaking of which, I need to find that when I get home. It's gone missing :-(
<jrmy> oh and on the note of why i use linux i kinda liek the look and feel kinda a change of pace
<tjagoda> Don't you lie
<tjagoda> You'd be on windows if you had a copy
<tjagoda> =P
<wolfger> LOL
<wolfger> tjagoda: windows fanboy
<tjagoda> So much irony there
<jrmy> i also enjoy using a shell
<tjagoda> Says this chair of an Open Source convention
<jrmy> well seeing as games are the only reason i use windows and i cant afford new games theres not much reason to use windows
<wolfger> Why I prefer Linux: Stability, cost, availability of kick-ass apps, and control over my own computer. Why I prefer Windows: games.
<jrmy> steam will eventually have more games for linux.. well last i knew
<jrmy> unless that was just mac..
<jrmy> hell, i dont remember now
<tjagoda> Yeah
<tjagoda> You're not on Ubuntu for stability
<tjagoda> =P
<tjagoda> Steam is not available on linux
<jrmy> ok
<jrmy> then yeah mac
<tjagoda> jcastro!
<tjagoda> Kill!
<wolfger> tjagoda: au contraire. I am definitely on Ubuntu for stability (versus previous versions of Windows).
<jrmy> and currently the only computer games i play are from valvesoft and maybe some bethseda games
<jrmy> other then that there is minecraft and cube
<wolfger> I only play Eve, and one of these days I will take enough time away from playing it to actually get it running under WINE
<jrmy> which are both playable on linux
<jrmy> i prefer console for other games
<jrmy> , emulator or a good old handheld
<jrmy> so why not use linux?
<jrmy> i hate how microsoft runs things
<jrmy> never liked IE after i found out about firefox
<jrmy> again*
<jrmy> infact theres some other linux programs i use
<jrmy> free fits me much better about now
<tjagoda> woflger: are you on 11.04?
<tjagoda> You're not on 11.04 for stability
<tjagoda> =P
<jrmy> 11.04 now? yeah been awhile
<tjagoda> I get the random crash back to login every now and again
<jrmy> i'd liek to use maverick but it doesnt load my vidoe controller correctly
<jrmy> or at least it didnt after the first stable release
<jrmy> but my machine is old enough.. why upgrade anymore
<tjagoda> That sentence makes my brain explode
<tjagoda> I hope I am misunderstanding it
<jrmy> and idkquote
<jrmy> -and idk*
<jrmy> which sentence?
<tjagoda> Lunch nao
<wolfger> tjagoda: I'm on 11.04 for some hope of a working wifi driver :-p
<tjagoda> lol
<snap-l> I want to uderstand which web page out there is telling people to use nusoap for PHP
<snap-l> so I can ask for someone to take it down
<rick_h__> hah
<snap-l> so now I'm going to attempt to put together a PHP example
<snap-l> wish me luck
<snap-l> Ah, nice: PHP native class for handling SOAP calls can't do WS-Security
<snap-l> http://stronger.epsi.pl/2009/06/24/php-soap-wsse/
<jrwren> I've got an ASRock P45X3 Deluxe mobo and an MiniATX case that I don't want, both never used. Mobo does not fit into this case. anyone want?
<tjagoda> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/psn-update-sony-isnt-sure-your-credit-card-data-is-safe.ars
<tjagoda> Sony fails
<wolfger> as usual
<brousch> snap-l: have your php example call out to a python command
<snap-l> brousch: Heh
<waldo323> jrwren, is there cpu or ram with the mobo?
<snap-l> and I punted, and just posted the python code, and a link to the PHP wsse auth example.
<brousch> good plan. go down that road and you'd be posting examples in smalltalk and VB.NET soon
<rick_h__> snap-l: boooo :P
<rick_h__> come on, surely you can whip up a command line friendly version that's php 5.0, 5.1, and 5.3 compat
<snap-l> rick_h__: I only target PHP6
<rick_h__> doh
<snap-l> since that's what the bookstore said was the new hotness
<snap-l> I'm a little disappointed (note: not surprised) that PHP Soap doesn't support WSSE auth
<snap-l> Now that JoDee has a smartphone with Google Calendar, she's adminishing me for not putting things on the calendar
<rick_h__> lol
<snap-l> wheras before she barely used it
<rick_h__> we do that all the time
<rick_h__> "I have a ladies night coming up" "Is it on the calendar? I don't recall seeing that!"
<rick_h__> or the reverse "I'm off to ladies night, make sure michael gets his meds"
 * rick_h__ checking calendar now that it's too late
<snap-l> rick_h__: Yeah, well before I was the anal one
<snap-l> now that she's using her phone, she's becoming just as anal.
<rick_h__> <3 google calendar
<rick_h__> especially on the phone
<rick_h__> I'll schedule my next dentist appt because I just put it on there and it's done
<rick_h__> krondor: good timing, as I sit here trying to get the latest Cyanogen on my phone
<krondor> rick_h__:  lol, yeah it was kind of rapid.  I was actually not expecting anyone to want to meet till post penguicon.
<rick_h__> strike while the iron's hot
<wolfger> that's the motto of the steelworkers union...
<jrwren> waldo323: no cpu or ram with mobo
<snap-l> Best review of Fluxx ever: I hate this game. I've actually played a game with a drunk who was ABSENT FROM THE ROOM for most of the game - and he still won. It's that frakin' random.
<wolfger> Heh
<wolfger> gotta love it
<snap-l> Wow: http://blogs.perl.org/users/fibo/2011/04/every-perl-module-needs-a-test-file.html#comment-22597
<snap-l> God, Verizon gives you a separate sheet to understanding your bill
<snap-l> "In this section, a mommy phone carrier and a daddy data plan love each other very much"
<rick_h__> lol, awesome
<rick_h__> snap-l: I love that comment: Starting your post with "I eat paste..." doesn't really help.
<snap-l> This is the context: http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2011/04/civility-starts-with-me.html
<snap-l> Apparently there's cantankerous dicks in the Perl community
<snap-l> who knew?
<snap-l> I'm a bad boy
<snap-l> Gib asked if the board meeting was still on, and Jim McQuillan said yeah, didn't you get the meeting notice? I replied "Yeah, I got it. Maybe Juno ate it. ;)"
<rick_h__> oooh
<rick_h__> burn
<snap-l> Well, seriously though, it's 2011, and the world has moved away from dial-up e-mail
<rick_h__> http://www.comicsanscriminal.com/
<snap-l> rick_h__: Nice.
<snap-l> jcastro: I think I see what your problem is with identi.ca
<snap-l> a) You have auto-subscribe turned on
<snap-l> b) You're subscribed to fabsh
<snap-l> c) You're in the ubuntu group.
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> if you think that's the only thing wrong with identi.ca
<snap-l> Too many spammers join the ubuntu group
<jcastro> are people still even on there?
<jcastro> I haven't been on there like in 2 years
<snap-l> "I just got a tasty sandwich from the fridge !debian !ubuntu !perl"
<snap-l> jcastro: There's still people on identi.ca
<snap-l> interesting people at times.
<greg-g> jcastro: lots of good people, actually :/
<jcastro> who is on there that I can't get on twitter?
<jcastro> oh, brad kuhn.
<jcastro> right.
<greg-g> mike linksvayer only sometimes posts to twitter
<greg-g> chris webber (great CC guy)
<greg-g> lmorchard has conversations with people on identi.ca but not twitter
<greg-g> that's just the last 7 minutes or so of my stream
<greg-g> clarification, sometimes lmorchard has conversations on identi.ca instead of twitter
<greg-g> depending on where the reply comes from, of course
<greg-g> my buddy Pete from Minneapolis ;)
<jrwren> pythonista gurus, any pointers on parsing a JSON style date. this one is from facebook
<rick_h__> dateutils
<rick_h__> if you can't just do strptime
<rick_h__> for a given known format
<jrwren> 2011-04-21T20:17:10+0000
<jrwren> datetime.strptime(status['created_time'], '%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%S%z')  but the %z seems to not work.
<jrwren> looking for dateutils.
<rick_h__> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-dateutil/1.5
<rick_h__> it's the great auto date parser of python land
<jrwren> ty
<jrwren> http://wiki.python.org/moin/WorkingWithTime  even says "there is no known workaround"
<rick_h__> right, but that mentions datetime in 2.3
<rick_h__> sounds out of date to me
<rick_h__> if you know it's ISO 8601: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/isodate/0.4.0 ?
<rick_h__> no release for a while on that one though
<rick_h__> I guess the hard way would just be to regex off the timezone off the end and parse the datetime + timedelta(xxxhours)
<jrwren> i think django might ship with dateutil, so it should be just a matter of importing
<rick_h__> yea, if it does it then cool. It's really common
<rick_h__> but is separate
<rick_h__> jrwren:  https://github.com/toastdriven/django-tastypie/issues/118
<rick_h__> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pytz/2011e not sure if that does it
<snap-l> chromatic also uses identi.ca
<jrwren> ty
<smoser> i thought rick_h__ was anti django. suprosed to see links from him with those dirty letters in them.
<jrwren> I think rick_h__ is just strongly pro-other solutions, whcih I am too, but some people use django
<snap-l> not to put words in rick_h__'s mouth, but I think his big problem is people using things without being too critical of why they're using it
<snap-l> if Django fits your needs to a T, then by all means use it
<snap-l> but Django is very tightly coupled, so if you want to remove pieces, it becomes problematic, and the whole reason to use quickly deteriorates.
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/braid-soundtrack/
<snap-l> Man, I knew I'd heard the music from Braid elsewhere.
<rick_h__> jrwren: snap-l my problem with django is that people go nuts like it's the best thing when it fails to be the best in any category of the stack
<rick_h__> orm, tempaltes, route dispatch, testing, wsgi-friendliness, it's not the best at anything
<rick_h__> but because it tells people "do it this way, don't think too much and you'll be happy" people go gaga over it
<rick_h__> basically :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-26
<Blazeix> awesome: https://github.com/blog/843-the-merge-button
<jrwren> github is awesome.
<nixternal> someone tell me how 'canonical shutting down sounder' blog comments quickly switch to unity and shell? is it because they were quickly shot down for bullshit?
<nixternal> fuck, i hate that. my byobu doesn't update quick enough so when i think i am in another channel, i am elsewhere. at least it was in this channel and not android or some shit where they boot you for farting
<rick_h__> hah
<rick_h__> nixternal: quit farting
<nixternal> i can't
<jjesse> nixternal i see you are your usual charming self
<nixternal> like always
<snap-l> nixternal: Well, you have a point
<snap-l> i think folks just gonna hate
<brousch> we used unity to play the slideshow at last night's grwebdev meeting
<brousch> it worked flawlessly
<brousch> a presenter used lmde and it worked, but not as well. problems with detecting projector resolution
<rick_h__> brousch: awesome
<greg-g> g'morn
<brousch> b'morn
<tjagoda> Sony to launch Android tablets?
<tjagoda> How many different Android tablets does the market need?
<tjagoda> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13192354
<brousch> 20:1 to swamp the ipads
<brousch> every company that makes laptops needs a 7" and 10" android tablet
<brousch> heh, and this morning from the lmde user: Becoming progressively unimpressed with Mint Debian. Regular update killed X, command line networking tools don't work. http://hootsuite.com/dashboard# http://hootsuite.com/dashboard#
<tjagoda> lol
<snap-l> I <3 Meetings at 9am
<snap-l> especially meetings that appear to have grave importance.
<snap-l> I fully expect Sony to adopt an Android gaming platform under the Playstation brand
<snap-l> I think they already have a portable with Android, but I may be mistaken
<snap-l> Also <3 Live Meeting. (blergh)
<tjagoda> Who games on sony products?
<tjagoda> Didn't even know the playstation still existed. =P
<tjagoda> http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/26/nielsen-consumer-desire-for-android-grows-unlike-ios-and-blackberry/
<tjagoda> Article makes me cry on the inside
<tjagoda> Oh well
<tjagoda> At least BB is still growing
<tjagoda> And beating WinMo
<tjagoda> NOT YET UNDERDOG! WOO
<brousch> palm is the underdog. bb is the underplatypus. winmo is the underdungbeetle
<tjagoda> http://www.pcworld.com/article/226245/developers_frustration_with_android_growing_survey_finds.html
<tjagoda> Just you wait until Android catches RIM disease
<tjagoda> Overconfidence will be your undoing! =P
<brousch> i was talking to guys from probably the best dev shop in GR last night. they develop using pretty much any technology, and BB is their most hated platform
<tjagoda> "Developers annoyed by device fragmentation"
<tjagoda> Unquestionably, the BB dev process is massively stupid
<brousch> apparently you use java 1.3 to dev for bb
<tjagoda> Even I can't defend that
<tjagoda> =P
<tjagoda> With the Playbook they're at least trying to fix it though
<tjagoda> opening up more languages and etc
<brousch> you can use java 1.4 features on playbook?
<tjagoda> I expect it to be at least less painful with QNX
<tjagoda> Duno about Java 1.4 specifically
<tjagoda> I will look
<tjagoda> Uh
<tjagoda> This forum thread from 2007 had people saying they're using JDK1.4 for blackberry dev
<brousch> but you can't use a lot of the features introduced in 1.4
<tjagoda> "The general rule is this: always use a JDE version equal to or less than  the OS version you're targeting. For example, if you're targeting OS  4.3 you can use JDE 4.0, 4.1, 4.2 or 4.3 to develop your application,  but not 4.5, 4.7 or 5.0."
<tjagoda> Woops
<tjagoda> wrong copy past
<tjagoda> JDK is further down
<tjagoda>  /snags
<brousch> http://spin.atomicobject.com/2010/11/22/the-cost-of-building-blackberry-apps
<tjagoda> I think QNX phones are supposed to start hitting the market in 2012
<tjagoda> And that's when the entire blackberry line will have moved from Blackberry OS to QNX
<brousch> one of the big hang-ups people have about android dev is that they have to use java. bb forces you to use an ancient java and dev on windows. it's like 10x worse!
<brousch> no one wants that pain
<brousch> maybe it'll get better
<tjagoda> QNX is (supposedly) supposed to increase your options for dev work, and not force you to use Java
<tjagoda> Yeah
<snap-l> RIM Disease? Is that the disease where you spend time, energy, and money developing for a platform where most folks only download the Google apps and use the built-in crap?
<tjagoda> Adobe SDK (AIR)
<tjagoda> And WebWorks SDK
<snap-l> Wow, so the entire world of twitter apps is now available to the Playbook
<snap-l> well played.
<brousch> air is very useful for making twitter clients
<snap-l> brousch: And it's also good for twitter clients
<tjagoda> WebWorks is targeted for dev's who want to integrate existing web applications
<snap-l> I think there's a few twitter clients made using air
<snap-l> My go-to playform for making twitter clients would certainly be AIR
<tjagoda> And you can dev on Windows/Mac in both of those new options
<tjagoda> Linux too in AIR
<tjagoda> So the process is like 6% less painful =P
<snap-l> Where you can make stunning twitter clients.
<tjagoda> They actually make the playbook simulator for linux
<tjagoda> which is cool
<snap-l> To you can twitter while you twitter
<snap-l> s/To/So/
<tjagoda> "RIM will add full tooling support for native C/C++ development for the  BlackBerry PlayBook tablet over the coming months.  Weâre highly  confident about this.  The QNX team RIM acquired to develop our  BlackBerry Tablet OS has won awards for its Eclipse-based native  Integrated Development Environment (âIDEâ)."
<tjagoda> Native C ftw
<tjagoda> They also bought tinyHippos
<tjagoda> And the only thing tinyHippos does is cross platform emulation
<brousch> definitely. everyone wants buffer overflow vulnerabilities on their mobile device
<_stink_> "Weâre highly  confident about this." <-- this is always a bad sign.
<tjagoda> lol
<snap-l> _stink_: ++
<snap-l> Which means they've contracted / outsourced it
<snap-l> or they're not sure the mergers are going to be fruitful
<tjagoda> Hey
<tjagoda> At least they're finally giving it CPR
<tjagoda> Whether or not they know how to perform CPR is yet to be seen
<snap-l> Yeah, about the same time that it was either them or God.
<snap-l> The platform has been moribund for a while
<snap-l> it'll take some time for them to learn to adjust to a world without tweed jackets.
<tjagoda> Data over the nextel network is SOOOO SLOOOW
<brousch> does nextel still exist?
<brousch> i thought sprint bought them and gutted it
<jjesse> jcastro that try ubuntu online w/ EC2 link doesn't work in IE 9 on the blog that was shared in google reader, the link flashes when i try to click on it
<jjesse> jcastro however it works in chrome
<brousch> ie9 is not a real web brwoser
<jjesse> ie9 runs faster and consumes less resources for me than chrome does
<jjesse> chrome is almost double the amount of memory than ie9
<waldo323> does ie 9 load everything?
<jjesse> for the same pages
<tjagoda> brousch: Sprint sells a "nextel" phone
<jjesse> waldo323 what do you mean?
<tjagoda> nextel network was incompatible with sprint's network
<brousch> that's because it lacks features
<brousch> i bet ie6 runs even faster
<waldo323> 2 fold, do things render correctly?  does it not load somethings
<snap-l> I think it does lazy loading like Chrome
<jjesse> every page besdies the try ubuntu one loads for me
<snap-l> so it'll load something once it's visible
<jjesse> that i've vistied
<snap-l> though knowing Microsoft, it probably is a little too lazy. ;)
<waldo323> so is chrome semi-hyper?
<snap-l> All in the name of science
<snap-l> and speed
<tjagoda> brousch: it's so so painfully slow
<tjagoda> Like the dialup of mobile networks
<tjagoda> Look me half the day to download the 90MB Bberry OS update from sprint
<tjagoda> erh
<tjagoda> from nextel*
<tjagoda> Works well for voice though
<tjagoda> When sprint didn't work we'd move them to the nextel towers
<smoser> hey ubuntu-us-mi peoples.
<smoser> i'd be interested in anyone taking a look at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1739635
<smoser> and telling me how it goes for you
<snap-l> clicking
<snap-l> spinning and loading
<snap-l> There we go
<snap-l> And nothing.
<snap-l> requires Java to runi
<snap-l> Unfortunately, it appears iced tea isn't up to the challenge?
<_stink_> smoser: got the logo,  the flashing dots.... then timed out
<snap-l> I have to download the NX plugin to get it to work
<snap-l> This is not particularly good marketing
<snap-l> accidentally hit cancel, and now I'm toast.
<_stink_> smoser: refresh -> timeout again.
<smoser> you hit cancel on the nxapplet?
<smoser> and a reload is timing out?
<snap-l> I hit "no" to give it permission by mistake.
<snap-l> And now a connection error
<smoser> connection error ?
<snap-l> all the while, a little timer is frustratingly counting down
<snap-l> yeah, from NXApplet
<smoser> hm..
<snap-l> The permissions are maddening
<snap-l> third try
<smoser> permissions?
<snap-l> Java asks for permissions to run these apps if you don't have them already.
<smoser> yeah
<snap-l> trust this, run that
<smoser> that does suck
<smoser> but there is nothing i can really do about that.
<snap-l> and I'm still getting a connection error
<smoser> well, we thought of 2 things
<snap-l> 5 minutes in, and I'm still not running shit
<smoser> a.) use the other gaping hole -- flash (but there exists a java applet)
<_stink_> smoser: i tried again from the original link, got a java permission popup, said yes, and now i'm just getting a gray box with the timer
<jjesse> i've given java permsisions but nothing started
<smoser> b.) release and browser exploit and then exploit it.
<smoser> _stink_, reload the page
<smoser> that is a java error i think
<smoser> also just switching tabs back and forht seems to kick it sometimes.
<smoser> jjesse, what do you see?
<_stink_> smoser: tab switching didn't help, reloading page times out.
<brousch> they should just create the server and let people install nxclient themselves. then send an email with login info
<jjesse> smoser countdown screen
<snap-l> "There's no session file available on the server"
<smoser> snap-l, hm...
<snap-l> (hit logout, and tried to retry again"
<jjesse> can't session timed out and all i can do is leave feedback
<_stink_> smoser: refresh page again, now back to counter with gray box.
<snap-l> Yeah, and I'm leaving feedback.
<_stink_> about to try an XP VM.
<brousch> not much luck on osx
<brousch> the timer and counting down and it says connecting to <ip address>
<smoser> snap-l, :) thank you
<snap-l> Oh lovely... if you don't use the time, it's still counting down
<snap-l> smoser: If you have any authority, pull this campaign
<snap-l> it's not working
<snap-l> Oh, hey... it showed up under Windows
<jjesse> what version of windows
<_stink_> heh, i like when i got on with the XP VM, it continued the counter when i left off the not working linux attempt.
<snap-l> XP
<snap-l> _stink_: Yeah
<_stink_> smoser: ok, on XP, i just get a black box with the counter.
<jjesse> tried windows 7 w/ chrome, windows  7 w/ firefox and windows 7 w/ ie9 and could get anythign to load
<jjesse> and now i'm out of time
<_stink_> i'm waiting to see what happens when time runs out.
<_stink_> i hope there's an explostion
<_stink_> explosion
<smoser> thanks for your help. i will come back to you guys when its going  a bit better and clear your "already used" marker.
<brousch> whoa, i'm in
<brousch> i had to close the tab and reopen it
<snap-l> Although I have a video playing via nomachine. :)
<snap-l> Yeah, under Ubuntu it's a no-go
<snap-l> under Windows, it's working
<snap-l> Go figure
<_stink_> or Mario falling down to the bottom of the screen.
<brousch> but i am probably one of the few people that actually had nxclient installed already
<snap-l> Probably a problem of the iced tea plugin
<brousch> now to use it to download massive amounts of pirated materials!
<snap-l> Oh, the notification of "Good Bye" is a nice touch
<snap-l> Except it doesn't appear to be logging me off. :)
<brousch> hm, i don't remember the icons twitching around before
<snap-l> Oh, there it goes.
<_stink_> heh, on this reload, the CSS didn't come down.  so i have an unstyled page with a black box and a morbid looking timer.
<_stink_> 20 SECONDS LEFT
<brousch> oh man, i got kicked off with 2 minutes left
<brousch> was downloading an ISO at 12MB/s
<snap-l> brousch: Heh. :)
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> Interesting to see what people do with 15 minutes of compute, and a fast pipe
<brousch> i was downloading ubuntu of course!
<_stink_> that's pretty meta.
<_stink_> install virtualbox, download ubuntu ISO, install it, start VM, open browser, get ubuntu natty trial
<smoser> brousch, i dont knwo tha tit knows whether or not you've got the client installed
<smoser> i think it downlads anyway.
<brousch> i use nomachine as my vps to work. one time nxclient was breaking under linux, so i did: ubuntu, vmware player with winxp, nxclient to my work ubuntu, vnc from that machine to win2003sbs server, restart ubuntu VM in vmware server
<smoser> snap-l, it does work under ubuntu... i'ave tried both under lucid and natty. but the grey box is an issue. i think its due to slow page loads.
<_stink_> smoser: please let us know if we can do anything to get more debugging info.
<_stink_> brousch: that's awesome.
<brousch> it ran fine once i connected, but took about 5 minutes to connect. i think the issue is you need to reload the page/tab/browser? after downloading the nx stuff
<_stink_> yeah, i saw a difference on reload the first time too.
<snap-l> smoser: Were you using the Sun plugin or the iced tea plugin?
<smoser> iced tea
<snap-l> Strange
<smoser> if you get the grey box, i think that brousch is correc.t
<smoser> its an ordering thing... porbably really a bug in the nx client, but shown due to how slow page loads are happening
<snap-l> I couldn't even get connected under Linux
<snap-l> Might have been because of the cancellation that I did before
<brousch> brousch is correct? oh yeah, f34r my new giant head!
<wolfger> brousch is correct? How did we let that happen?
<snap-l> heh. :)
<snap-l> I <3 Meetings
<snap-l> Got another one starting in a half-hour
<snap-l> That'll be three.
<rick_h__> hmm, sure it's not meeting monday?
<rick_h__> snap-l: recording tonight?
<rick_h__> at least trying to
<snap-l> rick_h__: I've got MUG Board meeting tonight
<rick_h__> doh, nvm then
<snap-l> might be able to eek something out afterwards
<jrwren> rick_h__: your feelings on this? https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=247535
<rick_h__> meh, that's ok. figured I'd check
<snap-l> but it'll be after 9pm
<jrwren> ctrl-tab for vim tabnext
<snap-l> rick_h__: yeah, this week isn't terribly good for evenings. :)
<rick_h__> jrwren: sucky that the term eats it I guess
<rick_h__> oh, you mean opinion on the shortcut itself?
<rick_h__> tabs aren't useful is my feelings on that
<rick_h__> I was a moron when I said I couldn't use vim until it got tabs
<snap-l> http://mailman.salmar.com/pipermail/wftl-lug/2011-April/122027.html <- you'll lvoe this, rick_h__
<snap-l> (follow the thread)
<rick_h__> .:P
<rick_h__> :P that is
<rick_h__> wait, I never got to check with Blazeix on my toll bait I setup for him
<rick_h__> he's probably off doing useful stuff, that silly guy
<rick_h__> snap-l: but thanks for making sure django wasn't left as the only thing there +1
<snap-l> rick_h__: Yeah, I thought you might like that
<snap-l> I love that I put in a bunch of suggestions, and the only thing he responded to was the question about what he's programmed in, and what he hopes to do
<rick_h__> yea, I've never seen one of those threads go well
<rick_h__> I've just stopped replying any more
<rick_h__> if you don't already know what you want to do, you're not going to find something someone else tells you
<snap-l> rick_h__: That's pessimistic
<rick_h__> people learn because they want to, not because someon on the list said XX was fun.
<rick_h__> ime that is
<rick_h__> no, I mean if the guy wanted to learn python there'd be a desire/need already there
<snap-l> Yeah, I hear you. :)
<rick_h__> I want to do XXX, oh, I can use python for that
<snap-l> It's the job shifter.
<snap-l> "Oh, xx looks interesting. I wonder what resources are out there."
<rick_h__> maybe I should say more "you're not going to stick through xx until the end if I give it to you vs if you come to me wanting to do xx"
<snap-l> "I know, I'll ask a random list for what might be out there"
<snap-l> Maybe that's a trait of Java developers
<snap-l> "I want to use Java. What the hell am I thinking?"
<snap-l> http://www.theonion.com/video/today-now-interviews-the-5yearold-screenwriter-of,20188/
<jrwren> rick_h__: agreed. windows rock, tabs less so. I'd really like some unified "next window or tab" because I do kind of use both.
<rick_h__> jrwren: ah, between tiling, splits/windows, and buffer switching I've not opened a tab in a couple of years
<tjagoda> rick_h and window managament: How the other 3% live
<tjagoda> =P
<rick_h__> 3%? thought it was more 0.3%
<jrwren> maybe I should learn how to have an open buffer without having it displayed in a window :)
<_stink_> yeah, how is that done?
<_stink_> i think i used to know.
<rick_h__> :tab<tab> to complete options?
<rick_h__> probably :tabnew?
<rick_h__> oh, sorry, missed jrwren in there
<rick_h__> not have it displayed? You just open files as you need them
<rick_h__> when you move a window from one file to another it's in the bufferlist
<rick_h__> why open a file up if you don't want it in the window?
<snap-l> rick_h__: To make sure nobody else gets the lock, of course.
<snap-l> When you're making those on-the-production server changes. ;)
<rick_h__> ah, got it
<rick_h__> heh, that's too much thought
<rick_h__> I'll just force edit anyway
<snap-l> and you call yourself a web developer. Sheesh
<snap-l> You must be doing that waterfall developmet where you actually check in code and promote
<snap-l> We're agile. We edit it right on the server
<tjagoda> I think the nextel data is actually moving slower than 32kbps
<tjagoda> Old school dialup baby
<snap-l> tjagoda: Maybe they're using the backup USR Sportster method of data transfer
<rick_h__> nextel? you downgrade from BB to nextel now?
<tjagoda> This is a nextel BB
<tjagoda> You can still buy nextel devices from sprint
<tjagoda> My BB is a sprint BB
<rick_h__> lol, boy tjagoda can sure pick the winners
<tjagoda> the BB i'm working on is not mine
<rick_h__> :)
<rick_h__> I thought they had phased out the nextel stuff and stolen their spectrum
<tjagoda> Hey, asshat, here's the reasoning which I had no part in picking =P
<tjagoda> They move people to nextel phones when sprint service doesn't work
<rick_h__> woo! I'm victorius today. I've earned the a**hat crown
<snap-l> tjagoda: West side of Michigan?
<rick_h__> sorry, I'm very stabby today.
<tjagoda> nextel towers were incompatible with the sprint network, so they're all still there
<tjagoda> just doing their own thing
<rick_h__> just be glad you weren't my coworker asking in a meeting if we had any "collective knowledge using the redmine ticket system?"
<snap-l> Seemed there was more nextel coverage on the west side.
<snap-l> collective knowledge?
<snap-l> What's to know?
<tjagoda> snap-l: nope, here in the east
<rick_h__> yea, my answer was...in song of course "You put the ticket in, you close the ticket out, you put the ticket in and you shake your code about..."
<snap-l> tjagoda: That's odd. Didn't think there was enough Nextel penetration out this way
<rick_h__> stabby
<snap-l> rick_h__: Maybe you can all sit around a campfire on some offsite retreat singing Kum-By-Yah, and close tickets together.
<tjagoda> The nextel always has service
<tjagoda> everywhere
<rick_h__> yea, so do pagers
<snap-l> tjagoda: Just slow access. I see.
<rick_h__> not sure I'd want to run my phone over that network either :P
<snap-l> rick_h__: You're getting a timeout. ;)
 * rick_h__ looks at the wife's pager she has to carry around
<tjagoda> The uber-low frequency spectrum nextel had was amazing
<tjagoda> great at making it through walls and basements because of the huge wavelength
<snap-l> The two-way radio was pretty snazzy as well
<snap-l> although I grew to HATE that sound
<tjagoda> Chirpchirp
<snap-l> bdweeeep. "HELLO"
<tjagoda> And then when the person doesn't pick up, the three of for "UH, YOU THERE"
<tjagoda> which would follow
<snap-l> tjagoda: Exactly.
<snap-l> Might as well have had a CB radio
<snap-l> "BREAKER BREAKER, THIS HERE'S THE DUCK, AND I'M ABOUT TO GO A-HUNTIN' BEAR"
<tjagoda> According to my bill sprint still supports the DirectConnect NEXTEL protocol
<snap-l> (Yes, way too many plays of 'Convoy' in my youth.
<tjagoda> lol
<snap-l> "Gonna move this truckin' convoy 'cross the USA. CONVOOOOOOY"
<snap-l> Oh man
<snap-l> Love this ultimatum
<snap-l> "We will not take over code that isn't 100%"
<snap-l> Name me one piece of code that is 100% that isn't 1 line of BASIC
<rick_h__> umm, 100% what?
<rick_h__> implemented, unit tested, crap?
<snap-l> I belive they want 100% defect free.
<rick_h__> ah...
<rick_h__> lolololololololol
<snap-l> *sigh*
<rick_h__> dbl *sigh*
<rick_h__> is it ok to block co-workers on coorperate IM?
<tjagoda> No
<tjagoda> =p
<jrwren> anyone run their home servers on LVM
<snap-l> jrwren: Only in a VM, where it doesn't really matter anyway
<snap-l> Played with the software raid once, just to see if I could break it. I did. :)
<jrwren> how about non home servers?
<jrwren> i'd like a bit more flexibility in my storage, and maybe some optional redundancy, but I don't really want LVM on MDraid
<jrwren> after reading a serverfault Q and A I think I'll start adding all new disks to LVM  and migrate there over the next few years.
<jrwren> my home server has been around for 5+ yrs now and I just keep swapping disks in and out.
<jrwren> http://serverfault.com/questions/13192/file-server-storage-configuration-raid-vs-lvm-vs-zfs-something-else
<snap-l> jrwren: Do you know how LVM handles removing a drove from the volume?
<snap-l> I'm not sure how it handles that
<jrwren> it does
<snap-l> s/drove/drive/
<jrwren> pvmove /dev/sda1 /dev/sdb1
<jrwren> e.g.
<snap-l> Interesting.
<rick_h__> sweet, snap-l all community mgr on CHC
<krondor> jrwren I use lvm on all my servers
<krondor> works well with very little overhead.  lvm on top of md on my home machine works too but w/ raid 5 and such you need to do some work on the chunk size and stride width to get good performance or there's tons of overhead.
<snap-l> rick_h__: Heh. :)
<tjagoda> http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/04/were-sorry-but-seti-cant-take-your-call-right-now.ars
<tjagoda> oh no
<tjagoda> How are we supposed to find nothing if we cant analyze the data????!!!!
<snap-l> jcastro: Um, whoops.
<snap-l> re: line falling down
<jjesse> we are under a tornado watch till 10pm
<snap-l> Same here
<snap-l> I think most of southern Michigan is under the watch
<jjesse> nice
<snap-l> Um, southern and mid-michigan. ;)
<greg-g> whoa, I didn't believe it until I looked at the regional radar, that is a mean looking line of storms
<jjesse> looks like its moving fast
<brousch> damnit. i live in the gap http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Screen%20shot%202011-04-26%20at%204.26.44%20PM.png
<brousch> i always knew jjesse was a dirty polluter what with all his jogging and running http://dvice.com/archives/2011/04/driving-hybrid.php
<jjesse> thats how i roll
<jjesse> brousch that sucks
<brousch> quit breathing so much!
<rick_h__> wow, glad I'm not a sony ps3 owner right now
<rick_h__> and I was pissed at my bank/etc for that mailing list company breach
<snap-l> rick_h__: New developments outside of "well, we don't know if we exposed your credit card info or not?"
<rick_h__> yea
<rick_h__> sec, let me find the link
<rick_h__> http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/26/update-on-playstation-network-and-qriocity/
<jcastro> heh
<snap-l> I think their response can be summarized thusly: "oh fuck".
<rick_h__> yea, "here's every link we can give you to help CYA over the data that got out. They basically rooted us and said bend over"
<snap-l> That's not a notification letter, that's their lawyers battoning down the hatches.
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> and they're even worse
<jcastro> they could have just said "we don't know, you might be screwed"
<snap-l> because the class action is coming
<jcastro> but instead they hand wavied people
<jcastro> they should have said "not sure, call your bank and redo your shit"
<jcastro> but instead they had to be sony, and wait like 4 days
<rick_h__> that's the big thing right?
<jcastro> now, you're just as screwed as before but you've lost 4 or whatever days
<rick_h__> they've kept quiet for days with all that data out there
<snap-l> jcastro: Well, information is better than rumor
<snap-l> what was compromised, what information did they have access to, what needs cleaning
<jcastro> snap-l: right, but they didn't do any of that
<snap-l> I have a feeling there's another story to this
<jcastro> it was typical corporate "now now, let's not get too hasty, we're just rebuilding the network to be more reliable and maybe we had a problem."
<snap-l> ie: who actually has access to that data outside of sony
<jcastro> "OMFG WE WERE OWNED ALL ALONG."
<snap-l> and I'm willing to wager that someone outsourced their administration
<rick_h__> yea, the minute they brought in an outside security firm they knew they were hosed
<rick_h__> you don't just hire/bring them in without having looked it over first
<jcastro> rick_h__: yup
<rick_h__> they don't sign that check until they know it's going to be worth it
<snap-l> rick_h__: I think they might not have had any choice
<snap-l> This sounds like someone cut the sysadmins until there was nothing left.
<snap-l> and, surprise surprise, they got pwned.
<jcastro> the sad part is people are going to dogpile sony
<jcastro> when we know that our banks
<rick_h__> this souds like someone got owned and it took 4 days to get the wording in the email from the laywers right
<jcastro> .gov
<jcastro> and everything important is just as screwed
<rick_h__> cool though, most of the headlines are "CC may have been stolen" in the titles
<snap-l> Well, the problem is it's ecommerce. Any time you have money flowing in, you're a more ripe target, and have much more to lose when you're hacked.
<snap-l> er, cracked.
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> but it's the same with meatspace
<jcastro> someone 100 years ago said
<jcastro> "that's the problem with commerce, some guy can walk in with a gun into a bank ...."
<rick_h__> yea, except now they get XXmillion in one hit
<rick_h__> vs the number of people you can hit in a space irl
<snap-l> Yeah, the old saying "why rob banks? That's where the money is"
<snap-l> Except now we have virtual merchants all over the globe
<jcastro> and of course, .gov will overcompensate, which means it will now take 40 steps to buy stuff on amazon
<snap-l> and beancounters making sure they don't have enough folks to make stuff work
<jcastro> or buy portal
<snap-l> jcastro: It's not a .gov issue
<jcastro> it will be
<snap-l> remember when you could use a CC without the CCV?
<jcastro> after this
<jcastro> they'll just do a SoX equivalent for online stores
<snap-l> That was implemented by the banks
<jcastro> and blam, higher prices.
<snap-l> jcastro: I doubt it. Amazon will bitch
<snap-l> and Amazon pretty much drives the ecommerce conversation
<snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/72041132 <- Heh
<rick_h__> I'm a sony hater so I'll just take my "hah! hah!" and go home
<snap-l> I'm no fan of Sony's business practices, but I can feel for their admins
<rick_h__> snap-l: meh, anyone think that would fix things? really?
<jcastro> rick_h__: yeah Sony sucks.
<jcastro> and see, bear's already started it.
<jcastro> here comes SoX part 2.
<jcastro> watch.
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/notice/72041638
<snap-l> jcastro: I can't see Congress doing stuff about this
<snap-l> They're too busy posturing over who will look good in the budget debates.
<jcastro> "As of January 27, 2011, there are over 69 million registered PlayStation Network accounts worldwide."
<jcastro> sure there will
<snap-l> Well, I hope they don't, or eCommerce will grind to a halt.
<rick_h__> ouch, 69million records of info
<rick_h__> that's one pretty db
<snap-l> greg-g: http://eclipsephase.com/new-art-core-book-reprint
<snap-l> They're making the whole book CC licensed, instead of CC with some exceptions on artwork
<greg-g> snap-l: awesome!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-27
<jjesse> wow marble size hail
<greg-g> jjesse: right now for you?
<jjesse> earlier
<jjesse> tornado warning just cleared
<_stink_> dang
<greg-g> wow
<jjesse> looks like another storm comming
<jjesse> eating dinner in the basement :)
<greg-g> fun fun
<jjesse> http://picplz.com/user/jjesse/pic/63ttp/
<jjesse> http://picplz.com/user/jjesse/pic/63ttb/
<snap-l> Good evening
<jjesse> yes it is
<snap-l> Installing Natty onto a USB stick proper instead of using it as an install disc
<snap-l> We'll see how this works
<jjesse> good luck?
<snap-l> Wondering if it'll wear out the key sooner
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> OK, that scrollbar in Unity is annoying as fuck
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> man, this channel does not make me want to try unity.
<snap-l> There's some good things, and some "did you really think this shit through" decisions
<snap-l> like modal dialogs. I don't think anyone thought that throug
<snap-l> h
<snap-l> Whomever made some of the more overriding user interface decisions is a perverse person
<snap-l> There's things that just don't make any damn sense
<snap-l> Anyone having trouble with gwibber under Natty?
<wolfger> Nope. A simple "sudo apt-get install choqok" fixed it. :-)
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> what is this gwibber thing?
<brousch> i can't read choqok without grinning like a schoolboy
<wolfger> can you be more specific about your trouble? I opened a ticket at one point for not being able to sign up to identica until after I signed up to twitter
<wolfger> otherwise, it worked as well as Gwibber ever did.
<rick_h__> I think it's just called "desktopcouch fail!"
<rick_h__> and today is lose faith in humanity day, it has so been declared
<rick_h__> widox: _stink_ snap-l n0p jcastro 7pm edition of CHC tonight
<wolfger> damn. I didn't know i was supposed to hold onto it until today
<rick_h__> sorry, n0p is probably off to AA CHC now, need to take him off the list
<snap-l> I wolfger Blergh
<widox> rick_h__: w00t, planning on it
<snap-l> Wow, I think I need more coffee
<snap-l> rick_h__: PLanning on being there
<snap-l> Jim MacQuillan might be there as well
<rick_h__> awesome
<snap-l> Blazeix: CHC tonight! 7pm edition
<rick_h__> oops, knew I was going to miss someone
<snap-l> I think the install that I did horked the USB key
<snap-l> couldn't keep up with the write traffic
<rick_h__> http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/27/apple-finally-responds-to-location-data-tracking-kerfuffle/
<snap-l> and once it got an error, bam
 * wolfger wonders what langauge snap-l was speaking there...
<rick_h__> yea, it's where you find out there are differences in USB sticks
<snap-l> I'm installing to a SD card now
<snap-l> We'll see if that works any better.
<brousch> ahcrap. i forgot to post the west mi natty party
<snap-l> brousch: Too late. You're coming to PEnguicon now
<rick_h__> snap-l: yea, I need the details of what time I need there
<rick_h__> so I can get the baby sitter here on time
<rick_h__> officially 7pm, should I be heading down early?
<snap-l> Head down a little early
<snap-l> enough to get through registration and all
<brousch> now i've got parents coming up on friday and a funeral on saturday. i couldn't make pcon even if it wasn't too scary
<snap-l> brousch: Bring parents
<snap-l> That's when you find out all sorts of interesting about them. ;)
<snap-l> "I have one just like that at home"
<wolfger> I don't think brousch could handle knowing that his parents are furries XD
<snap-l> wolfger: I don't think any of us could
<wolfger> wusses, the lot of you
<snap-l> and if you can, THAT'S GREAT. Please keep it to yourself. :)
<tjagoda> If I send this song along with my request for a firewall which can understand IPv6, nobody can refuse me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y36fG2Oba0
 * wolfger keeps it to himself, at snap-l's request
 * snap-l makes a quick mental note not to give wolfger my parent's phone number.
<rick_h__> krondor: CHC long 7pm edition tonight fyi
<brousch> wtf. the venue form for the loco meeting wants the latitude and longitude of the location
<tjagoda> Do you not navigate via sextent?
<tjagoda> =P
<krondor> rick_h__:  might be doable, Emily kept me away from the android meetup till late (9 pm) because she got stuck in the OR so I have some guilt to leverage
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, that form is a little wonky
<snap-l> And the meeting form that requires your meeting in UTC traps me up a lot
<brousch> it asked for the time zone of the meeting
<rick_h__> krondor: cool, well uncool, but also cool
<_stink_> wow, the leading story on both Marketplace Money *and* the BBC World News Hour on NPR this morning was the Sony data breach
<rick_h__> thank goodness
<rick_h__> I was pissed at the TNT podcast, they really dropped the ball on it
<tjagoda> Does anybody else consider Sony an evil corporation, or is that just me?
<rick_h__> I've always thought they were stupid, not sure on evikl
<rick_h__> memorystick seems stupid vs evil
<rick_h__> however, just about any large corporation gets evil points, so I guess
<brousch> sony is on my evil list. has been since the rootkit thing
<rick_h__> yea, that was a big stupid evil
<tjagoda> They're also massively proprietary
<krondor> sony == evil to me.  ps3 linux retraction, hardware issues and proprietary for proprietary's sake formats, the death of sega (not that sega didn't help them at it)
<rick_h__> I do feel bad for those sysadmins "You're going to be responsible for a system with 70million people worth of personal info"
<jjesse> isn't the bigger proble mthe information was stored in a way that could be taken out?  shouldn't they have encrypted it somehow?
<krondor> sucks when execs at your company stirs the ire of hacker groups and then you're left to pick up the fallout.
<rick_h__> yea, I wish there were more tech details
<rick_h__> I mean, the gawker thing was just morons
<rick_h__> but there's due diligence and things that go beyond that
<rick_h__> encrypting every bit of data you possess isn't going to be something people do
<krondor> I can see the PSN designers saying; "Â IÂ alwaysÂ do that. IÂ alwaysÂ mess upÂ someÂ mundaneÂ detail."
<krondor> Mr. Bolton that is not a trivial detail
<rick_h__> heh
<rick_h__> that's what I go thinking, I don't think I could be in a job with that much data/responsibility
<rick_h__> I'd never be able to say it was hacker-proof
<wolfger> rick_h__: and let's not forget, there's no reason to encrypt your data unless you have something to hide.... terrorist!
<rick_h__> I'm wondering though if they'll start resetting passwords on other sites like they did the gawker hack
<jjesse> wolfger wasn't that what the dude from google said?
<rick_h__> I mean, 70million?
<rick_h__> but I guess the db isn't public yet so they won't can't
<rick_h__> just feels like there was more activity on the gawker case but this is so much larger with so much more data yet taken more lightly
<wolfger> jjesse: I have no idea who said it, but it's been said, and probably by many people.
<rick_h__> yea, not sure any one person can take credit for that, think it goes back just a few centuries or so
<tjagoda> Feel sorry for all those PS3 fans though
<tjagoda> Little Jimmy and his stolen identity
<rick_h__> snap-l: http://www.mediabistro.com/ebooknewser/i-hope-you-dont-have-a-borders-rewards-card_b9719
<rick_h__> did I mention today is "lose all faith in humanity" day?
<dvader> rick_h__: I find your lack of faith disturbing
<tjagoda> I find his lack of faith justified
<tjagoda> =(
<snap-l> rick_h__: Damn, you mean I didn't earn all of those free drinks? :)
<tjagoda> I miss Linux right now
<tjagoda> where error logs actually record errors instead of cryptic binaries
<wolfger> heheheh
 * tjagoda is downloading windows SDK to open a .dmp
<tjagoda> why do they even call it an error log in windows?
<tjagoda> More like a log of files which may or may not have been generated by errors
<tjagoda> =P
<wolfger> OMG. Minecraft releasing source code? This is horrible.
<tjagoda> ..why?
<wolfger> volunteer work on serious linux stuff is going to plummet :-p
<jjesse> shouldn't that be good then?
<tjagoda> xD
<wolfger> I do not understand the obsession people have with Minecraft, but I understand the obsession exists
<jjesse> next up an announcement from all distros that they will now be pushing release dates back
<tjagoda> I don't want to try it
<tjagoda> I'm addicted to enough media/games as it is
<wolfger> I think I will make it one of my Penguicon goals to get Eve running under WINE, so I can quit using Win7 (as soon as they fix my wifi issue)
<wolfger> which I've been thinking is a driver problem, since I have to rmmod and modprobe to recover, but somebody now says is actually a network-manager issue???
<tjagoda> I'm making it one of my Penguicon goals to spend as much time in the computer lounge/not working as is possible
<wolfger> but if it's an NM issue, I would expect it to impact all wifi, not just a particular model of Realtek
<wolfger> what was rick_h__ saying about faith? :-p
<tjagoda> lol
<snap-l> I don't remember what rick_h__ said about faith, but I know what George said about faith
<snap-l> "I gotta have faith"
<snap-l> "I gotta have faith"
<snap-l> "I gotta have faith-a a faith-afaithafaith."
<greg-g> snap-l: https://identi.ca/conversation/69754862 just fyi
<brousch> snap-l: I prefer Limp Bizkit's version
<greg-g> and dang fred durst for being in my head now
<greg-g> 3 dollar bill, ya'll!
<snap-l> greg-g: Awesome
<snap-l> I was hoping for some more moderation
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, because I checked today, another dubious account joined, flagged and blocked
<snap-l> greg-g: Thanks for staying on top of that
<greg-g> but I would much rather admin it like I do mailman mailing lists
<snap-l> I thought that we could get by with just flagging the accounts, but they don't seem to go anywhere
<greg-g> snap-l: it took me about 30 minutes of flagging/blocking constantly last night. I was luckily in the mood for mostly brain dead work before bed
 * greg-g nods
 * snap-l reinstalled natty on a SD card. Seems to be working better
<snap-l> also, program note: none of the laptops that I own (save for the Netbook) can boot from a SD card.
<snap-l> So I have this USB dongle hanging off of the machine
<snap-l> unfortunately, it's also the largest card that I own (8GB)
<greg-g> huh
 * snap-l is going to use some of his internet money and pick up some more 8GB cards. ;)
<greg-g> bitcoin?
<snap-l> possibly even a 16GB if they're not crazy
<snap-l> greg-g: Um, not exactly
<greg-g> you said internet money
<snap-l> That's me, pretending to be a pimp.
<brousch> envy me. i will be using python and COM to extract data from autodesk inventor
<snap-l> brousch: I don't envy you.
<brousch> better than VBA
<snap-l> Well, yes
<snap-l> But that's like saying that you're ruling because you got bit by a 3 year old instead of stung by a scorpion
<snap-l> IN which case, yeah, you're ballin'
<brousch> I'm callin in the big guns before i get into this one too much, michipug
<snap-l> ?
<brousch> tips on using python and com
<rick_h__> brousch: don't
<rick_h__> email away your resume
<brousch> bah, come on
<snap-l> COM, seriously?
<brousch> i have a book about the windows extensions, but it's like 10 years old
<brousch> snap-l: that's what they give me
<snap-l> Right, COM isn't used anymore
<brousch> i thought they had a .net api for it, but nope
<snap-l> Wow, way to keep up with the times, Autodesk
<brousch> 5 DVDs to install the program and they can't include a .net api
<snap-l> Do they still make you keep the boxes for all of the software?
<brousch> yes
<snap-l> Man, they're idiots.
<rick_h__> man, if I have to explain how cookies work one more time I'm going to explode
<rick_h__> "it's not that hard...no really...it's not"
<wolfger> You put the dough in the oven, let them bake, when they come out let them cool, then eat them.
<brousch> i was gonna say just eat the dough, but i guess at that point it's not technically c ookie
<Blazeix> Cookies are a super-secure medium that is unhackable. You can store all sorts of information in them and not worry at all.
<brousch> thanks Blazeix!
 * brousch starts moving his password storage to cookies
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: http://illruminations.com/2011/04/27/ubuntu-and-amateur-radio-for-ubuntu-open-week/
<ColonelPanic001> this is awesome, thanks
<greg-g> just doing my job
<ColonelPanic001> I would like a job posting links in IRC, plz. I seem to be volunteering >_>
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: i believe that job title is "community manager"
<ColonelPanic001> crap
<ColonelPanic001> I want "IRC Chatter"
<brousch> you have to post to twitter and facebook too
<ColonelPanic001> What? This is crap. I'd like to see my representative in the IRC Chatter's Union
 * greg-g dones another hat
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: hello, how may I help you?
 * ColonelPanic001 cues Rod Serling
<ColonelPanic001> "The Colonel doesn't realize that he's just taken a job... in the Twilight Zone"
<ColonelPanic001> "A place where greg-g is every job description in the company"
<ColonelPanic001> 1600 UTC is what, 1200 here? I can never remember if we're -4UTC or -5
<rick_h__> http://everytimezone.com/
<ColonelPanic001> 4
<rick_h__> topic that greg-g :P
<ColonelPanic001> that is a handy website.
* greg-g changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-mi to: Michigan LoCo | Wiki: http://ur1.ca/33fhq | LP: http://ur1.ca/33fhw | MailingList: http://ur1.ca/33fhy | Check out MUG: http://www.mug.org and CHC: http://ur1.ca/33fin | Michigan Repository Mirror at OU: http://ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu/ | This channel is now logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | What time are we? http://everytimezone.com/
* greg-g changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-mi to: Michigan LoCo | All About Us: http://ur1.ca/413j6 | Check out MUG: http://www.mug.org and CHC: http://ur1.ca/33fin | Michigan Repository Mirror at OU: http://ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu/ | This channel is now logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | What time are we? http://everytimezone.com/
<greg-g> ok, that should be good
<greg-g> rick_h__: done
 * greg-g takes off his channel op hat and puts the Union Representative hat back on
<snap-l> I just compared my Java development skills to tapdancing on broken glass skills in an e-mail
<snap-l> ie( a bloody mess)
<greg-g> barefoot tapdancing?
<snap-l> bah, yes.
<snap-l> Also love how I'm the family paypal account
<snap-l> bro-in-law isn't terribly computer literate, so he calls me up to order dirt-bike parts
<snap-l> of course, they get shipped to the house
<snap-l> So we're shipping and receving. ;)
<brousch> geez
<snap-l> 's OK
<snap-l> he's the family mechanic
<snap-l> Also loved the expression on the mailman's face when he brought up the frame that my bro-in-law bought
<snap-l> considering the place that shipped it didn't box it up
<rick_h__> greg-g: lol, just kidding
<greg-g> rick_h__: :)
<rick_h__> http://www.androidcentral.com/official-google-docs-android-app-here
<rick_h__> android users, hotness ^^
<snap-l> rick_h__: Oh that's awesome.
<wolfger> F. T. W!
<wolfger> Now I will uninstall the crap Samsung/AT&T loaded on my phone
<brousch> rick_h__: you are making my pants tight
<rick_h__> I tend to do that, can't help it...sorry :/
<rick_h__> http://blog.delicious.com/
<rick_h__> and I don't care any more yay!
<wolfger> rick_h__: you are the source of all hotness
<brousch> greg-g: thanks for the RT
<brousch> rick_h__: even if delicious survives, it's always good to have an open source alternative to a proprietary platform
<greg-g> brousch: np! (I'm also trying to use the !UbuntuMI/!MichiganLoCo/!UbuntuMichigan identi.ca group more)
<greg-g> rick_h__: huh (re: delicious) that's interesting
<greg-g> rick_h__: but, as brousch said, I'm still on the bookie bandwagon ;)
<brousch> i can't use it with hootsuite, so i pretty much ignore identica
<greg-g> brousch: then I'll be sure to retweet/dent your stuff there
<brousch> heh
<brousch> what's the official twitter hashtag for us?
<brousch> #UbuntuMichigan?
<greg-g> "official"?
<greg-g> well, the LoCo Directory searches for "ubuntumi" but I think only for identi.ca (file a feature request!)
<brousch> i'll use #ubuntumi then
<greg-g> rick_h__: we need a bookie twitter account
<greg-g> looks like @bookie is parked ("protected" user with no tweets or contacts)
<wolfger> brousch: I stopped ignoring Identica, only to find that most other people had started ignoring Identica while i was busy ignoring it. So now I mostly ignore it again.
<greg-g> I don't know what to make of this: https://twitter.com/#!/t_ca/status/63290937492770816
<rick_h__> cool greg-g I guess
<rick_h__> greg-g:  http://twitter.com/#!/BookieBmarks
<rick_h__> I'll put something up later on
<rick_h__> crazy, bookie, bmark, and bmarkus all taken
<wolfger> crazy was taken?
<rick_h__> yea, who'd a thunk it
<wolfger> or did you mean s/,/:/   :-D
<rick_h__> crap, can't get tweetdeck to do multiple accounts
<wolfger> bookie is probably taken by a gambler of some sort?
<wolfger> Really? I've never had a problem with multiple accounts on Tweetdeck before.
<brousch> rick_h__: hootsuite ftw
<rick_h__> oh, yea I got it
<rick_h__> had to log out of the main account ont he website
<rick_h__> hah! from the FAQ: Is AVOS going to build a Delicious extension that is compatible with Firefox 4.0?
<rick_h__> boom, we've already got one of those thanks to _stink_!
<brousch> how about an ie extension? get jrwren on that
<rick_h__> hah, wife asked me for that and I told her it would never happen
<rick_h__> because at work they only have IE6...
<Blazeix> hm, would it be possible to build a bookmarklet? That way it would work in all browsers.
<Blazeix> assuming IE supports bookmarklets, which may be a large assumption.
<rick_h__> yea, I think it's possible but I've not done it since I never have a bookmark folder/view open to use it
<rick_h__> I looked into that at the start until I found the Chrome extension to hack
<rick_h__> and you kind of need the webui view for that
<rick_h__> or a build a bookmarklet ui so that it gets your api key embedded
<Blazeix> right, it'd have to be one of those things that's generated by your bookie instance
<rick_h__> yea
<brousch> snap-l: don't you use Gallery? http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Productivity-Sauce/Manage-Your-Photo-Gallery-from-Android-Using-ReGalAndroid
<snap-l> I used to use Gallery
<snap-l> It's a pain in the ass, though
<rick_h__> +1
<rick_h__> think wordpress is a pita...ugh
<snap-l> Apparently today is windy day.
<rick_h__> only today? been windy a lot lately
<snap-l> Well, it's really windy. :)
<snap-l> Ugh... spent some $$ on getting a sensor and a shield for the Arduino (The Phidget Electronic Brick interface)
<snap-l> only to find that the cable isn't the right type (Sharp uses a different 3 pin cable)
<snap-l> On the plus side, I found a place that still has the Electronic Brick explorer kits, so I just ordered one of those.
<snap-l> Oh that's brilliant.
<snap-l> Try this with Compiz: Open Expose mode
<snap-l> click on the background (no windows)
<snap-l> everything disappears.
<snap-l> IT's rather disconcerting and cool at the same time.
<brousch> jcastro: I'm going to make a printed hand-out of your Unity Keyboard Shortcuts and Mouse Tricks for my demo tomorrow, unless you have one already prepared
<jcastro> I do not
<jcastro> someone made wallpapers
<jcastro> brousch: there's a print thing
<jcastro> one sec
<jcastro> brousch: http://www.stackprinter.com/
<jcastro> select ask ubuntu
<jcastro> and the question is 28086
<jcastro> that will gen a nice printable format for you
<greg-g> whoa, neat
<brousch> ok, thanks
<brousch> damnit, does chrome not have "print selection"?
<snap-l> nice!
<snap-l> I don't htink so
<brousch> barbaric
<snap-l> Of course that also fits into the "never tried it, nor needed it" category.
<rick_h__> printing? why would we do that?
<Blazeix> brousch: my version of chrome seems to have it
<Blazeix> select something -> print -> selection
<Blazeix> oh, that might tie into window chrome, which I'm on right now.
<Blazeix> s/window/Windows/
<rick_h__> hmm, yea not here in my linux chrome
<rick_h__> and I'm on dev
<greg-g> on Fx4 in Ubuntu the option to select "selection" is in the print dialog
<rick_h__> right FF has it, but not chrome on linux it looks like
 * greg-g hugs Fx4
<rick_h__> me and FF need some time apart
<rick_h__> the frustration with working on the bookie extension has strained our relationship
<_stink_> heh
<rick_h__> _stink_: I did find a perfect way to help with the blanking issue though
<rick_h__> lots of alerts vs logs
<rick_h__> alerts stop and you can read the logs
<rick_h__> https://mozillalabs.com/prospector/2011/04/27/awesomebar-hd-find-what-you-want/
<rick_h__> speaking of FF, would love this
<rick_h__> one bar to rule them all is the only way to go
<brousch> blah, i'll make a doc out of the parts i need
<brousch> look good? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Ubuntu%2011.04%20Keyboard%20Shortcuts%20and%20Mouse%20Tricks.pdf
<_stink_> brousch: maybe under Window Management make each line consistently show Operation - way to do it.  like the 4th and 5th are switched
<_stink_> then bold the Operation so it's easy to find
<_stink_> just a thought
<snap-l> Also use more comic sans
<_stink_> yes
<brousch> i should download the ubuntu fonts
<Blazeix> for Alt+F1 there's a typo, should be "launches _an_ application"
<brousch> man, you guys are anal ;)
<Blazeix> how nitpicky should I get? Page 2, Super+S: "let's" should be "lets" :)
<snap-l> Blazeix: You've never used the 'and' application?
<snap-l> And is awesome
<Blazeix> I've used AndLinux :)
 * snap-l makes a note to name his next application "and"
<Blazeix> I hear And is almost as awesome as Ant, which snap-l loves
<snap-l> Blazeix: You bet your ass I love Ant
<brousch> have to these back upstream to jcastro so he can fix the source
<jcastro> just submit an edit to it
<snap-l> Blazeix: Best thing Java could have done; take the understandability of make and add XML
<snap-l> like adding reeses peanut butter cups to a hamburger
 * snap-l waits for someone ro tell him they add reeses peanut butter cups to a hamburger in the south
<brousch> jcastro: oh, yeah, forgot i have some powers
<jcastro> anyone can submit an edit
<brousch> done
<Blazeix> brousch and I made the same edits at the same time :)
<Blazeix> surprisingly, it managed to merge them both, I think.
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> there are tons of places you can submit edits
<jcastro> you get +2 for each one!
<brousch> how many - is it when i imply someone is an idgit?
<snap-l> brousch: Depends if anyone concurs. ;)
<brousch> If anyone else wants the odt, you can get it here http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Ubuntu_11.04_Keyboard_Shortcuts_and_Mouse_Tricks.odt
<brousch> added it to the thread. now i don't feel like a total leech
<snap-l> Delicious Agony is playing "Presto" by Rush (the song)
<snap-l> and while it's not my favorite Rush song, it's still pretty damn good
<snap-l> jcastro: ^
<fdvalero> one day left
<snap-l> Speaking of which, we need some folks to commit to the Natty panel. :)
<snap-l> Or I'll go drafting. :)
<fdvalero> you talking about gnome 3
<snap-l> Unity, Natty
<snap-l> Ubuntu 11.04
<snap-l> That sort of thing
<snap-l> fdvalero: Have you been using Ubuntu 11.04 yet?
<fdvalero> not, I'm using Lucid
<fdvalero> but I have gnome-shell, is same as gnome 3
<fdvalero> ok, go to college dude
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-28
<rick_h__> http://www.betanews.com/article/Apples-server-biz-relegated-to-prosumer-status-with-Xserves-end/1296513722
<_stink_> fun!  water in the basement.
<rick_h__> _stink_: ugh :(
<rick_h__> _stink_: sump not playing nice?
<brousch> another flooded basement?
<rick_h__> seems to be par for the rainy couse
<rick_h__> we better get some good may flowers out of this
<brousch> my wife was pissed. she came home last night and the hostas had been eaten been rabbits
<_stink_> rick_h__: we actually don't have a sump.  afaik most of the houses around here don't, or have had them filled in.  not sure why
<rick_h__> _stink_: ah, ok.
<_stink_> but it looks like the pipe out to the city sewer is partially blocked.
<_stink_> so the rain water couldn't join up and drain out.
<_stink_> so through the walls it came.
<brousch> lovely
<_stink_> and of course, we can't use the water till the line is snaked or whatever.
<brousch> stick ur arm down in there
<rick_h__> ah the joys of home ownership
<rick_h__> you know growing up my uncle told me to never buy a house
<rick_h__> and I just laughed
<rick_h__> but after owning one...hmmm...not sure if I agree more
<brousch> yeah, pita
<_stink_> yeah, we were just commisserating about that here.
<brousch> if i weren't married i would live in a tiny apartment
<brousch> no lawn to mow, no appliances to fix myself, just me and my computer
<brousch> and would get bored out of my mind after a week
<rick_h__> only thing is I'd miss the dog
<rick_h__> but yea, I remember my days of my two bedroom appt with my bedroom/office
<brousch> i'm so tired of our dogs
<snap-l> Yay, four inches of water under the house.
<brousch> snap-l: yikes!
<rick_h__> well, under the house is ok right?
<rick_h__> as long as it's not in the house
<snap-l> rick_h__: Yeah, I think this is par for this house
<snap-l> BUt this morning I heard running water under the house
<snap-l> so I went outside to dig it a little away from the grate where it was coming in like gangbusters.
<snap-l> Apparently Royal Oak has a problem with this. :)
<snap-l> Maybe because we don't have drainage ditches
<brousch> how do you have water under a house?
<brousch> is it on stilts?
<jrwren> brousch: wtf would I write an IE extension?   shame on you!
<rick_h__> jrwren: hah! come on, we're relying on you
<rick_h__> doesn't IE have extensions now?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> but i ain't writing one.
<rick_h__> boooo, non-team player
<jrwren> does this work pay?
<rick_h__> no, it's OSS
<rick_h__> it's "for fun"
<snap-l> brousch: There's a crawl space under the house
<jrwren> i can't think of anything fun about writing an IE extension
<snap-l> so it's not a proper basement
<rick_h__> jrwren: and that's why I told my wife there will never be a bookie extension for IE
<jrwren> what would an extension do that a bookmarklet wouldn't do?
<jrwren> I always hated delicious extension and much prefered the bookmarklet
<rick_h__> let's you edit, add tags, provides auto completion of tags as you type, tag hints, etc
<rick_h__> retrieves existing data if you've already bookmarked the current page
<jrwren> bookmarklet does all that for me.
<brousch> a bookie browser toolbar!
<rick_h__> ah crap
<snap-l> The Natty is released
<brousch> ie users can keep it right between their google toolbar and yahoo toolbar
<ColonelPanic001> rick_h__: I'd like to learn more Android dev stuff. Interested in a Bookie app?
<brousch> snap-l: i guess that explains why my dist-upgrade fell to modem speed
<snap-l> a-yep
<snap-l> The intertubes are plugged in Canonicalville
<rick_h__> ColonelPanic001: completely if you'd like
<rick_h__> I'd be more than happy to help with any API stuff you might need/etc
<ColonelPanic001> it's more interesting than "hello world" style book examples
<rick_h__> Yea, I always like learning with something more interesting
<rick_h__> and since bookie pulls/parses pages you can actually display the bookmark content as well
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: you thinking native android or something less java?
<rick_h__> we can add some api access for that and searches
<ColonelPanic001> native
<snap-l> You mean there's more to programming than Hello World?
<snap-l> Shit, I have a lot of catching up to do
<rick_h__> snap-l: only for those that are insane
<ColonelPanic001> for work, I do mobile dev with RhoMobile.
<brousch> "Rhodes is an open source Ruby-based framework to rapidly build native apps for all major smartphone operating systems"
<brousch> ewwwwwwwwwww
<ColonelPanic001> it's like stripped-down Rails (as far as this non-rails guy can see) that runs on a phone.
<snap-l> brousch: Would you rather write Java?
<brousch> appcelerator uses javascript
<rick_h__> Blazeix: doh, there was that X crash again
<brousch> phonegap too
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, phonegap was another one they considered
<ColonelPanic001> they did this and decided before I was hired in, though, so don't know what they were weighing as pros and cons
<jjesse> did 11.04 release yet?  i kinda lost track of the actual release date
<snap-l> Just in time for !penguicon, it's !openmetalcast Club Metal Episode 2. http://ur1.ca/41fl5 Jack into the mainframe and get this episode!
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<snap-l> jjesse: It's released.
<ColonelPanic001> I just got the notification in my update thinger
<jjesse> nice
<ColonelPanic001> I'll probably backup adn do it on Monday.
<ColonelPanic001> same on the desktop at home. It's a couple releases behind now, I think.
<jjesse> seemed to not have the same excitement at home
<jjesse> sorry
<jjesse> seemed not to have the same excitment as last release (saw more announcements)
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm still on LTS at home
<snap-l> jjesse: I think it was more heads-down this release
<snap-l> lot of moving parts
<snap-l> And frankly, not as much excitement over Unity
<snap-l> (or I should say positive excitement)
<snap-l> I'm seeing a lot of loud defections to other OSes this release
<jjesse> interseting
<snap-l> s/OSes/distros/
<jjesse> so whats the hot distro right now?
<snap-l> nfc
<snap-l> Think once Unity gets more mature Ubuntu will get the faithful back
<snap-l> Haven't used Gnome shell in a while
<snap-l> Problem is, no matter which distro you go to, you'll have to think
<snap-l> and that's one thing we've grown stale about. The environment just works
<ColonelPanic001> I'm on Kubuntu anyway. Don't care what the main distro does with Unity.
<brousch> yeah, you're used to an annoying ui and breakages every few months
<ColonelPanic001> never really broke for me. Maybe the gnome users aren't used to being able to change a setting.
<ColonelPanic001> I guess it can be annoying, having choices.
<brousch> distracting
<ColonelPanic001> I bet if you call up apple, you could get a one-button mouse, too
<brousch> no button mouse
<brousch> trackpad and taps
<ColonelPanic001> but then there's both the x and y axis. That's too much choice.
<greg-g> g'morning all
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<snap-l> Good morning, greg-g
<ColonelPanic001> none of my usual group is going to Penguicon but me.
<ColonelPanic001> Aw well. Free beer and cosplaying girls is all I need.
<brousch> just make sure they're really girls
<ColonelPanic001> If I check, might find out otherwise. Ignorance is bliss.
<greg-g> and as long as they're attractive, they're attractive, right?
<ColonelPanic001> ^
<greg-g> oo, updates for 10.10 today as well
<greg-g> don't worry, I'm not hitting that "Upgrade to 11.04" button quite yet ;)
<brousch> doit
<ColonelPanic001> Be brave
<ColonelPanic001> throw caution into the wind, and upgrade without backups
<Blazeix> rick_h__: that sucks. fyi https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=117668
<krondor> rich_h__:  how was chc, didn't get the approval from Em, something about penguicon time suck etc...
<snap-l> is flickr down?
<brousch> snap-l: broken for me
<snap-l> bah
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't used flickr in ages. I stopped taking pictures, I guess.
<ColonelPanic001> and yeah, spinning its wheels for me, too
<greg-g> it is working for me, I'm logged in, if that matters
<greg-g> I take that back, it worked to pull up my photostream, but not an individual photo page
<greg-g> http://www.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/ vs http://www.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/5587639244/in/photostream
<brousch> i'm kind of excited about the demo tonight. it's nice to have brand new features to show
<brousch> instead of a list of new versions of the same old programs
<brousch> http://clusterbleep.net/files/Ubuntu_11.04_Unity_Cheat_Sheet.odt
<brousch> i added in screen shots and labels of UI elements from another askubuntu thread
<brousch> very useful now
<rick_h__> Blazeix: cool, thanks for the link
<rick_h__> krondor: went went, had a good crowd and got some bookie hacking done
<rick_h__> http://rick.bmark.us/ updated the ui on my demo install with some better colors/icons
<rick_h__> greg-g: ^
<ColonelPanic001> looks nice
<brousch> purdy
<krondor> got my psn account compromise notice from sony today.  Fun times...
<snap-l> Yay for meetings
<snap-l> Also, my trash bags blew into the neighbors yard.
<rick_h__> krondor: yay, get all those passwords and CC numbers changed
<krondor> CC already is expired :) and password was unique for it.. what sucks though is the security questions and other bio info (address/name/what not).  Easy to reset passwords on other sites/open lines of credit/find out SS numbers when you know security questions + email address and such.
<rick_h__> yea, the security questions are a huge deal
<greg-g> yeah, that crap sucks :(
<rick_h__> almost wish the db came out so people would reset accounts based on the leaked emails like the gawker case
<rick_h__> obviously that's bad so not all the way hoping, but ugh
<ColonelPanic001> suddenly I'm glad I've never used PSN
<krondor> I'd say it's preferable full disclosure and leak of what is out then never seeing it... block out the passwords on the leak (but they'd never do that).  I do like seeing the stats on most used password and such
<brousch> passwords were stolen? not just hashes?
<ColonelPanic001> I *heard* they weren't even hashed.
<ColonelPanic001> heard, though.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Worse, it was also sent to the terminal unhashed
<snap-l> (from what I've heard)
<brousch> geez
<krondor> the email reads like unhashed; http://pastebin.com/Xx4hCGD3
<snap-l> Yeah, this is a major clusterfuck
<ColonelPanic001> I'd say something about stupid programmers, but they probably are as pissed as everyone else. Probably some retarded middle manager dictated it.
<snap-l> Also heard that developers had access to production systems, and vice versa
<ColonelPanic001> frak knows why
<snap-l> Major cock-up
<brousch> Qriocity? is that read as curio city or curiosity?
<ColonelPanic001> "major cock-up" should mean a good thing. When my cock is majorly up, it's not a bad thing.
<ColonelPanic001> well, not for me anyway
<brousch> depends on where you are when it happens
<ColonelPanic001> touche
<greg-g> eg: Penguicon?
<snap-l> depends on what area of Penguicon. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> depends on where you are when it happens
<greg-g> lol
<ColonelPanic001> see my earlier post about penguicon, for example ;)
<_stink_> or if you're dressed like Tronguy
<ColonelPanic001> or if that.
<ColonelPanic001> "Think about Cmdr. Adama... Think about Cmdr. Adama... OH GOD IT'S WORSE NOW"
<snap-l> Just set up my e-mail so it'll work with Mutt
<snap-l> couldn't sent e-mail from Mutt
<snap-l> OK, now that meeting is done, time to retrieve my trash bags.
<greg-g> snap-l: weee! mutt!
<ColonelPanic001> ...
<snap-l> Yay, got some games in the mail in trade for Civilization
<snap-l> Knightmare Chess 1/2, and The Stars Are Right
 * snap-l is feeling the love
<PainBank1> yo, when does reg desk at Penguicon open up at this weekend?
<snap-l> NFC
<PainBank1> WTF, GaFC
<PainBank1> :D
<snap-l> nfw
<PainBank1> haha
<greg-g> ruh roh, I think my full harddisk caused some problems with my maildir
<rick_h__> oops
<snap-l> oh, that sucks
<rick_h__> if I could figure out attachments I'd love to just run mutt on the server like I do irssi
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> same
<rick_h__> but that extra layer of getting attachments down to view is a pita
<greg-g> weird, offlineimap runs fine, no errors, but mutt isn't starting up
<greg-g> and ctrl-c isn't stopping it
<greg-g> harumph!
<greg-g> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/301/
<greg-g> I think I messed up when I restarted my laptop, started up my usual 4/5 mutt instances, and the disk was already full at that time
<greg-g> ruh roh! my ls in .mutt/ is hanging
<greg-g> and I was planning on being uber productive this afternoon! :(
<snap-l> Means something likely has it locked
<snap-l> reboot?
<rick_h__> hmmm, but it's an offlineimap sync right?
<rick_h__> I mean you can blow that away and not really lose anything right?
<greg-g> rick_h__: well, now I'm thinking offlineimap wasn't the issue, but instead mutt
<rick_h__> hmmm, interesting
<greg-g> snap-l: that is my next attempt....
<snap-l> Yeah, sounds like something isn't releasing a lock or something
<snap-l> or the filesystem got mounted read-only, possibly?
<rick_h__> if you've got several mutt running maybe some command went haywire?
<rick_h__> notmuch search or something?
<greg-g> reboot worked
<greg-g> sad I had to
<rick_h__> interesting
<rick_h__> rsync email /dev/sdb1
<snap-l> Working out the playlist for Open Metalcast 20 that I'm going to be putting together at Penguicon
<snap-l> Should be brutal
<snap-l> Funny thing is I'm listening to the playlist before putting it into the show
<snap-l> usually I do that after the show is put together. ;)
<greg-g> heh
<brousch> rick_h__: what about a dropbox-like program for syncing attachments from mutt? save attachment to dir, that dir syncs to your local machine
<greg-g> brousch: still a couple more steps then just pressing <enter> to open the file :/
<brousch> i suppose
<brousch> but then you're running a console-based mail client, so you must enjoy pushing keys
<greg-g> :P
<rick_h__> brousch: what I have thought of is to write a script with a config to a public http accessible dir
<rick_h__> and then generating a link to it that you could paste into a browser/click on
<rick_h__> but the big thing then is dealing with the fact that it's open and needs periodic cleanup
<greg-g> rick_h__: cronjob that deletes files every 20 minutes?
<rick_h__> and I don't know how to write scripts for mutt
<rick_h__> greg-g: yea
<brousch> i think dropbox would work better
<rick_h__> meh, how so?
<brousch> then it's private and easy to clean out
<rick_h__> you'd have to copy it off site, and then download it
<greg-g> rick_h__: they're just your run of the mill bash/whatever script that takes piped input and parses it, does something, returns
<rick_h__> double transfer
<rick_h__> brousch: and then you've got the reverse problem still, how do I add an attachment
<brousch> you want to run mutt on a server through screen right?
<rick_h__> brousch: right
<brousch> add attchment, just stick it in the synced folder
<brousch> then attach on the server
<rick_h__> ic
<rick_h__> maybe
<brousch> use a free 2GB acct and share it with your paid acct
<greg-g> actually, the dropbox method might not be a bad idea.... I have dropbox running my server... and that's where all my working documents live anyways..... at least for attaching, it isn't any different. For opening, it is an extra couple steps
<brousch> save it, twiddle thumbs, double-click it
<rick_h__> yea, I guess I've not setup on my server (actually not reset up on my laptop yet either)
<brousch> heck, that's how i view half of my attachments now
<rick_h__> yea, gotcha
<brousch> my god. autodesk inventor 2010 is 6 DVDs to install, and then there are 7 service packs totaling about 250MB for x86 and 500MB for amd64
<greg-g> rick_h__: though, a combo Dropbox/U1 and your script would be awesome. script takes the attachement, saves it to your attachment_tmp dir, asks Dropbox/U1 for the priate URL of that file, displays it in that buffer area for you (before you "hit any key to continue")
<greg-g> that way, you can either go to the URL or just navigate to the folder in your laptop's Dropbox/U1 folder
<binbrain> Pandora broke Pithos yesterday, fixed today, FTW
<greg-g> binbrain: nice!
<rick_h__> greg-g: yea
<rick_h__> that would be cool
<rick_h__> hah, bring your kids to work day has turned into a type-off
 * greg-g adds it to his someday list
<greg-g> lol
<rick_h__> 12 words a second for one kid, 22 for another, and I had to bust out the 91
<greg-g> I saw some facilties guys downstairs this morning with their daughters in tow, it was awesome
<rick_h__> wooo! I can crush 12yr olds!
<greg-g> rick_h__: you jerk
<rick_h__> now that my self estime is lifted for the day, maybe I'll try to get some work done
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h__> now they need a vim mode for that lol
<jrwren> heh, Jennifer Marsman just texted me asking if I was going to penguicon.
<rick_h__> man, I should be doing that "kids...this is vim..."
<rick_h__> get the pollution going
<jrwren> who are these kids?
<brousch> more python tiling wm candy for rick_h__ http://pytyle.com/wiki/Main_Page
<brousch> rick_h__: now try to best them at sms
<rick_h__> jrwren: co-workers kids
<rick_h__> hah, everyone wants some tiling
<binbrain> YATM taken yet? (yet another tiling manager)
<krondor> rick_h__:  did you end up getting CM7 on it...
<rick_h__> krondor: yea, I've had CM7, but GPS issues still
<rick_h__> some known problems with people that have been through some upgrades
<rick_h__> did some dd hacks that didn't work, next up is flashing the radio, but have to get the android dev tools to do that
<krondor> yeah I was going to say I'd go to a radio flash, radio is closely tied to GPS as they're the same chip
<brousch> i had issues when i was overclocking. i went back to stock speed and a few issues stopped
<rick_h__> yea, just getting nervous that everything I'm told to try has "this can brick your phone" tied to it
<rick_h__> yea, no overclocking, jst stock CM7
<krondor> rick_h__:  hmm see this; http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/topic/20259-no-gps-lock-using-cm70-stable-rom-on-htc-incredible/ looks like people have a range of success from new radios to uninstalling weatherbug (wtf?) to formatting their sd card (double wtf?)
<brousch> my big problem was camera flash and shutter out of sync
<rick_h__> krondor: yea, so no weatherbug
<rick_h__> and the sd card thing is that there's some metadata on the card that needs to be reset that this dd command is supposed to clear
<brousch> i run weatherbug, but it is a slow hog if you run it in the background instead of on demand
<rick_h__> and new radio is last on the list for me
<krondor> you'll have to let me know what it turns out being
<rick_h__> well if it's not the radio not sure what to do next
<rick_h__> getting time for a new phone... :)
<brousch> bah, i'm stilling using original android
<krondor> brousch
<krondor> g1?
<brousch> sorry, original droid
<krondor> sorry finger slipped hit enter by mistake.  Oh yeah my droid 1 died (digitizer fail), 3 dollars for the chip with some serious solder skills for surface mount or 80 dollars to replace at a cell repair shop on 9 mile.  I gave it to my bro in law and bought a captivate on craigslist.
<krondor> droid 1 was great though.  No locked nand, super overclockable, great loudspeaker and gps.
<brousch> the fact that you would even consider replacing a single chip yourself tells me you must be a truly great geek
<krondor> or I'm dumb and a glutton for punishment.. I did run Gentoo until recently, for what it's worth.
<snap-l> I sit in quiet adminration
<snap-l> admiration, even
<rick_h__> man, I love pyramid, so much nicer than pylons
<binbrain> I think its arguably the cleanest best designed web framework in Python space
<rick_h__> getting to do the first stab at a pyramid app at work
<binbrain> are you bumping heads with ZTK much?
<rick_h__> things just fall into place nicely,
<rick_h__> nope, not at all
<rick_h__> still sticking with routes/alchemy
<binbrain> I think that's the way to go
<rick_h__> but working on trying to build some modular apps, so going to be having some fun with things
<rick_h__> want to be able to start with a base and add apps onto it with little code/config
<binbrain> unless you want ZODB, I'd say stick with routes
<rick_h__> yea, we're used to that
<binbrain> I really like the way Pyramid uses events
<binbrain> its taken from Zope, but cleaner to understand
<krondor> wow do I hate the font on the new status.net site (not sure how new or when it was changed, looks totally different though...)
<krondor> as far as I can tell c e a o are the same letter
<krondor> hmm, nevermind it seems like it's an issue with my font rendering in FF4 in windows.  looks fine in linux on ff4 and in windows in chrome
<snap-l> Neat.
<jcastro> anyone know whot he tech lead for penguicon is again?
<snap-l> Krunal
<jcastro> krondor: they scheduled an XBMC talk the same time as the ubuntu one
<TeamXlink> My Xbox still runs XBMC
<jcastro> ok
<jcastro> and I certainly won't be attending "Unity: Dividing Us All"
<jcastro> on Sunday too, wth.
<snap-l> Yeah, I didn't understand the point of that talk
<jcastro> ok so I have a record of me accepting XBMC and 11.04 panels
<jcastro> and he asked about lightning talks and I said "sure", but that's on saturday so that works out
<jcastro> I think I would have remembered "Do you want to get railed on by UNIX people?"
<jcastro> hah man, I bet it was rick
<jcastro> he probably got a bunch of tiling window manager guys together to set me up
<snap-l> Heh
 * jcastro eyes rick_h__ evily ....
<snap-l> I think he didn't realize that the 11.04 panel was what you thought you were agreeig to
<snap-l> Since that's only got my name attached to it
<greg-g> jcastro: whoa, what a crappy session title name :(
<snap-l> It's to stir up shit
<snap-l> Unity / Divide. Counterparts
<jcastro> well, the only mails I see are from you asking me
<jcastro> and I was like "ok, deal"
<jcastro> and krondor asked me to sit in for XBMC
<jcastro> the other one no one lmk about so I am in the clear
<snap-l> I guess we need to flip for jcastro
<jcastro> other than now I _have_ to show up because people will be making stuff up
<jcastro> snap-l: I'll go to the panel one
<jcastro> XBMC is neat but doesn't feed me
<snap-l> I was still willing to flip for it. ;)
<jcastro> nah it's cool, you arranged the party and the bug day and stuff, I'd have to be a real jerk to bail on you
<snap-l> ?
<snap-l> bug day?
<jcastro> the thing in AA
<snap-l> That was greg-g
<snap-l> And the party is only us trying to meet at the bar. :)
<snap-l> The real planning comes tomorrow if they kick us out. ;)
<krondor> jcastro: lol I saw you on that schedule for unity dividing us all and was thinking hmmmm
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-29
<rick_h__> what? there's a panel on unity dividing?
<jjesse> finally got 11.04 downloaded
<jjesse> now fresh install of my vms :)
<rick_h__> sweet
<jjesse> can't believe how long the web download was going to take
<jjesse> i think at one point it was 19 hours
<jjesse> on my fat work connection
<jjesse> and my torrent was under 1.5 hours
<rick_h__> heh, yea I'm guessing your pip isn't the limiting factor on this one
<jjesse> nope
<fdvalero> waht's new in Natty
<rick_h__> not much :P
<snap-l> rick_h__: Yeah, Unity is like a cell
<snap-l> and the panel was explaining mitosis
<rick_h__> snap-l: this is the one you were recruiting people for?
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> And I need bodies
<rick_h__> lol
<snap-l> warm bodies that are friendly
<snap-l> OK, time to do the dishes.
<snap-l> brb
<fdvalero> yeah
<brousch> Unitydemo and party went really well
<rick_h__> awesome, good to hear
<brousch> A lot of skeptical people were impressed
<rick_h__> yea, I think it'll be a big thing to get people to give things a fair shake
<rick_h__> and just ack that there's issues, it's an early release
<brousch> i'm glad i brought real hardware instead of a vm
<rick_h__> definitely
<brousch> ran really well
<jjesse> brousch great job :)
<greg-g> brousch: awesome!
<brousch> also one of the biggest wmlug meetings, 13 people i think
<jjesse> n ice
<greg-g> congrats, buddy
<brousch> i think i demoed for an hour and no one seemed to get bored
<greg-g> wow, that is impressive
<greg-g> ugh, early
<rick_h__> greg-g: heh, meeting
<rick_h__> ?
<rick_h__> that was supposed to say
<rick_h__> snap-l: http://www.blog.pythonlibrary.org/2011/04/28/wxpython-learning-to-use-fonts/
<rick_h__> some wx love for you on the planet today
<brousch> snap-l is a wxpython fan?
<rick_h__> he's been playing with some wx
<brousch> rick_h__: you going to try to present at pyohio again?
<rick_h__> brousch: yea, think I'm going to submit an SqlAlchemy session
<rick_h__> though thinking it would be cool to do a pyramid one, but not a big fan of framework talks since they devolve into 'how fast can you build a cheap wiki'
<brousch> heh
<brousch> a pyramid talk would be good. maybe goad ramm into one?
<rick_h__> http://aws.amazon.com/message/65648/
<rick_h__> interesting read
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
<greg-g> rick_h__: drove up to Lansing with some coworkers for a pre-unconference bootcamp we are leading
<greg-g> mine doesn't start until 1pm, but the other coworkers started at 9
<rick_h__> ah, party time
<_stink_> "pre-unconference bootcamp"
<_stink_> wow, quite a phrase
<rick_h__> drying out _stink_ ?
<ColonelPanic001> dry it out? He has a nice indoor pool. Shouldn't waste that.
<_stink_> rick_h__: yeah, got all the carpet and padding out last night after kid went to bed.  now it's sitting soaking in my garage
<_stink_> gotta bundle it up for the garbage
<rick_h__> ugh
<_stink_> but things seem reasonably dry otherwise
<_stink_> the line out to the city is snaked out, so no danger for a while.  just gotta decide if we'll put in the exterior access or not
<_stink_> so thankful it wasn't sewage water and was just outside rain water.
<_stink_> i don't want your poop in my basement.
<rick_h__> ah come on, it's roses
<greg-g> _stink_: ugh, glad things are getting better, though
<jjesse> does your homeowner's insurance cover this
<jjesse> when we had a backup homeowners paid for cleanup, and new carpet
<_stink_> jjesse: yeah, that's a really good point, someone mentioned that to my wife yesterday
<_stink_> i'll have to look
<jjesse> insurance company sent out one of those cleaning compaines to put antifungal, etc down and cleaned up the floor
<jjesse> which was nice
<_stink_> well damn
<rick_h__> yea, when we had a backup they would cover it, but it was less than out deductable so didn't bother
<rick_h__> but we saved the carpet, just had a drying company out that pulled it up adn setup fans under it
<rick_h__> wasn't a total loss/drownage
<_stink_> was there padding under that carpet?
<rick_h__> yea, but it was ok
<_stink_> ah, awesome
<rick_h__> well we had to cut some out
<_stink_> the padding the previous owner put down is quite the absorber.
<ColonelPanic001> why bother keeping the carpet just to repeat this later, though?
<rick_h__> well for us it was a failed sump, so we fixed the sump and were good to go again
<_stink_> it feels good on the feet?
<rick_h__> bah, I'm trying to rip the carpet out of this house bit by bit
<rick_h__> hardwood or bust!
<_stink_> hehe
<ColonelPanic001> I prefer hardwood to carpet often, too
<snap-l> Good morning
<ColonelPanic001> Hi.
<snap-l> rick_h__: thanks! Checking out this article
<wolfger> <#ubuntu> Is it out yet? </#ubuntu>
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<wolfger> Is anybody at Penguicon yet?
<ColonelPanic001> not yet. day job.
<greg-g> not yet, leading a bootcamp until 4: http://www.2011.greatlakesthatcamp.org/bootcamps/
<greg-g> ok, is it odd that a person with an HP laptop has an apple logo sticker on it?
<ColonelPanic001> religion is strong.
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> it is odd
<wolfger> not terribly odd, since every iPhone comes with one of those stickers
<brousch> call him on it
<ColonelPanic001> leave the guy alone, he was good enough to not use an apple laptop
<rick_h__> heh, company issued against his will?
<rick_h__> or just figured since he bought an iPod he needs to claim his colors in public to represent?
<ColonelPanic001> he musn't anger The Jobs
<rick_h__> I watched the latest south park with the apple slams and was disappointed :(
<ColonelPanic001> I didn't see it
<brousch> i didn't know SP was still on TV
<snap-l> I saw a guy at the last CHC with two Apple stickers on a decidedly non-Apple laptop
<brousch> report him to steve jobs
<rick_h__> heh _stink_ looks like you're in good company, from my woodworking forum: This forum has
<rick_h__> received a new topic since your last visit, "flooded basement questions".
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<ColonelPanic001> rick_h__: you do much woodowrking?
<rick_h__> before the kid
<rick_h__> wife hates that she can't park in the garage since it's all woodshop
<ColonelPanic001> ah. My dad used to do a lot of that. He actually made his and my mom's bed.
<rick_h__> but havne't been able to get out there to do it
<ColonelPanic001> hah, if we had had a garage, it'd probably be the same
<ColonelPanic001> that and woodcarving. Used to do that quite a bit
<ColonelPanic001> need to get pictures of some of his stuff sometime
<rick_h__> https://picasaweb.google.com/deuce868/Cutting_boards# https://picasaweb.google.com/deuce868/Entertainment_center#5395992025616163250
<rick_h__> though we have a nice lcd on top of it now vs that old tv
<ColonelPanic001> nice. I like it
<ColonelPanic001> now combine the two interests, and make a wood computer case.
<rick_h__> https://picasaweb.google.com/deuce868/Hall_table#5313766308596653474
<rick_h__> heh, seen a few
<ColonelPanic001> I've only seen a couple, but they were beautiful
<brousch> rick_h__: very nice! i think i saw some of your in-work pictures but not the finished product
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, that hall table is nice.
<rick_h__> well been a while since I got anything done, but yea
<rick_h__> I messed up the drawers on that table. Harder to get smooth drawers than it looks
<rick_h__> but the appearance is really good, was my first in-house project
<rick_h__> other stuff I built was just for the garage, cabinets/etc
<rick_h__> but yea, miss the woodworking some, but can't really do it a lot with the kid and bookie takes up time after he goes to bed
<rick_h__> oh well, it'll be more a retirement thing I guess :P
<ColonelPanic001> trying to think of what else my dad did. Kitchen cabniets, I think, were his
<brousch> nah, once your kid is old enough not to cut his hand off he can help you
<jjesse> like 2
<ColonelPanic001> my retirement is going to be full of drugs and alcohol. I figure I'll be old and near death anyway. May as well
<jjesse> give him a hammer
<rick_h__> heh, just need him old enough to play in the yard on his own
<ColonelPanic001> I am too far behind on openmetalcast.
 * ColonelPanic001 dons earphones
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: I'm giving out DVDs of all of the episodes to date at Penguicon. :)
<ColonelPanic001> f'ing awesome. Save one for me. ;)
<snap-l> Sure thing
<ColonelPanic001> still love this podcast idea
<ColonelPanic001> listening to ep. 14 now
<ColonelPanic001> the only thing that would be nice would be some way of knowing who's playing, while they're playing. Technology restriction, I guess.
<ColonelPanic001> jsut because sometimes I'll be listening, suddenly realize the band is awesome, but forget later (I'm usually working while listening)
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: i have the same issue. i always have to go to the blog post and try to sort out which one i liked
<ColonelPanic001> right
<ColonelPanic001> not much to do about it though, I guess.
<brousch> that's probably how snap-l makes money
<ColonelPanic001> that greedy little jerk
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Theres something in AAC that will show the album artwork at the same time
<snap-l> but that means having to use itunes. :)
<ColonelPanic001> but in what players, etc?
<ColonelPanic001> exactly
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<ColonelPanic001> screwwww that.
<ColonelPanic001> I use netvibes for RSS, I just play it right on the page
<brousch> snap-l: you could say the info after every song
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, he's doing that right now on the one I'm listening to, actually
<snap-l> Er, I mean Garage band or soemthing else.
<snap-l> brousch: Um, no. :)
<ColonelPanic001> I can live with going through a blog post, anyway
<brousch> is that some radio nono?
<snap-l> brousch: You'd never listen to it
<snap-l> There's no flow
<brousch> i'll give you artistic license on it ;)
<ColonelPanic001> Execute My Liberty is nice. A little on the "wtf is that gurgling" side, but good, for when I'm in the mood for it
<ColonelPanic001> I'm with snap-l. Interrupts flow.
<snap-l> Which is why I do the instrumetalcast and Club Metal episodes at the beginning and end of the show
<brousch> see, i don't notice flow
<snap-l> brousch: Exactly. ;)
<snap-l> It just happens
<brousch> but probably because i am constantly inturrupted and listen in 10 minute chunks
<snap-l> Listen to some of the first episodes. You'll understand what not having flow means.
<ColonelPanic001> grabbing this album
<snap-l> Good DJs make the music the center of attention
<snap-l> Although radio DJs are all about promotion
<ColonelPanic001> "Proctologue by Ass Burners from Blasting Poo Armageddon"
<snap-l> promote this product, that show, something else.
<ColonelPanic001> Must. Not. Laugh. At. Work.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Yeah, thank brousch for that one.
<ColonelPanic001> thanks, brousch
<brousch> my pleasure. the more assburnings i can spread the better
<snap-l> At least the playlist that I made for Penguicon doesn't have anything in a foreign language.
<snap-l> The last episode was a tongue-twister.
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/04/19/open-metalcast-episode-19-there-will-be-potassium/
<snap-l> Aliados by shaistrek from Revolucion y Metal (BY-SA), Dual God by Kaiowa from Subliminal Doctrine (BY-NC-SA) <- Both of those were hard to say
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<brousch> i enjoy listening to you try to pronounce spanish names
<ColonelPanic001> hehe
<snap-l> brousch: I think I get it most of the time
<snap-l> I had several years of Spanish
<snap-l> It's the french ones that throw me for a loop
<snap-l> I speak French like Peter Sellers
<ColonelPanic001> I mostly find it amusing when Craig is so cheerful sounding while announcing songs like "Consumed By Blood"
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: that cracks me up too
<ColonelPanic001> god, this Procotolouge song is horrible.
<ColonelPanic001> hilarious in parts though
<brousch> cheerful and mild-mannered
<ColonelPanic001> ep 14 was damn good, though. I went on Jamendo in the middle of working on something just to favorite that one album
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPyDY5aZyXs
<ColonelPanic001> I also approve of that theme song
<ColonelPanic001> the track you use is on an album I bought from Magnatune a couple years ago. It's sitting in my car right now.
<ColonelPanic001> This "Abduction Starfleet" is awsome. snap-l, you ever listen to any '...And Oceans'?
<ColonelPanic001> if you like this, might like them, too
<snap-l> Yeah, you menitoned that. I didn't get to it yet. :)
<snap-l> Utopia Banished. :)
<ColonelPanic001> that's it - I couldn't remember the name of the band, just the album
<snap-l> Night of the Black Wyvern?
<ColonelPanic001> aye
<ColonelPanic001> haha. News Corp. is trying to sell MySpace.
<ColonelPanic001> <axl rose>It's gonna diiiiieeeeee</axl rose>
<rick_h__> http://twitter.com/#!/jasonbock/status/63979817275637760
<rick_h__> awesome
<ColonelPanic001> an.. xml format.. for json?
<ColonelPanic001> don't we have that? Isn't it called.. xml?
<snap-l> rick_h__: That's definitely the fish bicycle we've been looking for
<snap-l> And next year, if I decide to do this Open Metalcast DVD thing, it'll be professionally done
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<snap-l> tired of fighting with Brasero / DVD Burner
<snap-l> though it'll likely be more than 4.7GB. ;)
<snap-l> It's 2.2GB now
<ColonelPanic001> computer set up to automatically mount a USB drive when detected, then copy over the archive, dismount, wait for next.
<snap-l> Right, is greg-g planning on bringing his pirate box?
<snap-l> Maybe I'll burn an extra for him, just in case.
<ColonelPanic001> I still like that "you get random files" idea from before.
<snap-l> Also going to burn a copy of the Natty ISOs, just in case someone can't get them
<snap-l> Anyone coming to the release party that hasn't RSVPed yet?
<rick_h__> me
<rick_h__> or did I rsvp? I don't recall
<rick_h__> well, I'll probably be there, still one last chance of fallout
<snap-l> I'm not seeing a RSVP
<rick_h__> k, I'll get the wet noodle
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/843/detail/
<ColonelPanic001> I'll RSVP too. I should be there by then
<rick_h__> greg-g: is coming out tonight?
<greg-g> *maybe*
<greg-g> with a hopefully tone in my voice
<rick_h__> hah
 * brousch decides to skip the coming out jokes
<snap-l> Thanks, everyone. :)
<greg-g> thanks for that message, snap-l
<Dekkard> do we have an upgrade server for Natty?
<snap-l> greg-g: np
<snap-l> Dekkard: Image?
<Dekkard> um nmot sure
<greg-g> see the topic for the Oakland university mirror, which is still fast
<Dekkard> k
<Dekkard>  i couldnt even do a Maverick upgrade yesterday net was so hammered
<snap-l> I'll add some maverick images as well. ;)
<Dekkard> thanks
<snap-l> Dekkard: Do you have a CD drive, and a USB key?
<snap-l> and are you coming to Penguicon?
<Dekkard> yerp
<snap-l> OK, I've got the maverick ISOs. I'll burn you a separate copy
<snap-l> and I'll put Natty ISOs on there as well
<Dekkard> ahhh.. not sure of penguicon
 * Dekkard isnt a IT professional like youse guys
<snap-l> Dekkard: You don't need to be an IT pro to come to penguicon
<snap-l> Not sure where you got that idea. ;)
<Dekkard> but I was going to wait a few days.. see if the upgrade from mav to natty was smooth
<snap-l> OK, well if you change your mind, I'll have the ISOs there, regardless.
<Dekkard> i been to a lug meeting at dragonmeade.. I was the only non pro there
<Dekkard> o_0 ---> chef
<Dekkard> anyway..lunch service bbl
<Dekkard> freekin $50 !!!
<snap-l> Dekkard: ?
<rick_h__> think he had some penguicon sticker shock
<jcastro> OMG LOL
<jcastro> snap-l: this was on reddit
<jcastro> http://i.imgur.com/zdIIa.png
<rick_h__> wtf, running ubuntu VM seemless on a Mac?
<binbrain> that's windows
<rick_h__> yea, gotcha
<binbrain> isn't it?
<rick_h__> yea, think it's the toolbar just dragged left
<jcastro> binbrain: they're saving that the unity launcher is like windows 7 and  that the top menu part is a mac
<snap-l> I think someone was making a statement via photoshop
<rick_h__> man, where's the BB fan with all this gloom and BB doom going on
<snap-l> Whassat?
<rick_h__> tjagoda or whatever his nick is
<rick_h__> shares are down almost 20%, BB doing a special earnings report pre-warning everyone it's all down
<brousch> i know, i was just about to post it and then realized he is probably passed out drunk at pcon already
<snap-l> No, I mean what's the doom and gloom?
<snap-l> Holy shit. That's major
<rick_h__> http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=blackberry
<snap-l> http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-04-28/rim-plunges-after-cutting-profit-forecast-on-blackberry-demand.html
<rick_h__> they had to come out before their earnings report and go "Umm, dudes...you're not going to like this, but we'll let you know tomorrow. Just promise not to be mad mkay"
<snap-l> RIM said BlackBerry shipments will be at the lower end of the range of 13.5 million to 14.5 million it projected last month, and the mix of devices will shift toward cheaper models.
<snap-l> Ouch
<snap-l> âAll things being equal we would love to have these products earlier and not be having this call,â said Jim Balsillie, co-chief executive officer in a conference call with investors. âBecause itâs such a big upgrade, it takes longer.â
<rick_h__> "guys, we can't just reinvent our business into a software service provider overnight...give us time"
<snap-l> That's the worst thing to fight when you're a consumer company: consumer apathy.
<rick_h__> http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20058471-245.html and http://techland.time.com/2011/04/28/baseball-disaster-yanks-leak-21000-ticket-holders-personal-info/
<rick_h__> that's it, I'm not signing up for anything anymore.
<rick_h__> good grief...and Kroger wonders why I won't sign up for their stupid rewards card crap
<snap-l> No kidding
<snap-l> Which is why we shop at Meijer
<rick_h__> "but it's free and you could save $2"
<rick_h__> screw it, I'll pay $2 and keep my personal info off your crap network kthx
<binbrain> looked up BB news on Google http://twitpic.com/4r2r8s
<binbrain> look closely
<snap-l> rick_h__: You should launch into a 10 minute dissertation on why their card isn't worth it in the checkout lane
<rick_h__> binbrain: lmao!
<binbrain> I know right
<rick_h__> oh crap, that's amazing
<snap-l> I'm sure the cashier and the people behind you in line would love it
<snap-l> rick_h__: Yeah, that picture is rude.
<snap-l> bbl
<ColonelPanic001> this work thing is dumb. want to go to Pcon, plz
<jrwren> i don't get it.
<jrwren> what am I missing?
<jrwren> oh, lol... now I see it.
<jrwren> whoa, logocast music sounds good
<rick_h__> openmetalcast?
<jrwren> err, lococast.
<rick_h__> oh, some intro music or something?
<jrwren> just the ep 15 intro music was really kickin
<rick_h__> gotcha
<Scott_firebeta> can anyone get to cdwg.com  downforeveryoneorjustme.com says it's up but I can't get to it or newegg.com
<Blazeix> works for me
<Scott_firebeta> thanks
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, that's Micronaut (Chris Randall's project)
<wolfger> OK, who's here now? :-p
<wolfger> s/here/at Penguicon/
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001 is on his way
<_stink_> i'm not in this year
<_stink_> i actually was pleasantly surprised after looking at the schedule
<_stink_> some ok looking stuff
<wolfger> hurry, ColonelPanic001. You're missing the KDE panel
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-04-30
<ColonelPanic001> I am at teh penguicon
<ColonelPanic001> so naturally, I go to the lobby, pull out the thinkpad, and browse reddit and IRC
<ColonelPanic001> maybe I shall meet other redditors. And void them.
<ColonelPanic001> or oogle girls in short skirts. Perhaps all of the aobve.
<ColonelPanic001> above, rather
<ColonelPanic001> god, they're chiming "let's go red wings"
<snap-l> I'm up in my room now
<snap-l> thinking I'll turn in a little early.
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: I didn't thin kyou were staying here. nice.
<ColonelPanic001> which floor?
<snap-l> 5
<snap-l> Yea, we stay every year.
<ColonelPanic001> hah, nice. Which room?
<snap-l> The one I'm in. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> heh. I was just going to lie and say I was next door, then try and get you to knock on the door
<snap-l> not gonna work. :)
<ColonelPanic001> went in my room for a short bit to rest my legs, but meh. Seemed dumb to just hang around alone in my hotel room at a con that early
<ColonelPanic001> it was worth a try
<snap-l> I'm too clever for your shenanigana
<ColonelPanic001> oh, you.
<snap-l> Anyone happen to know what the open jam is tomorrow at 10am?
<ColonelPanic001> it's like jelly, but.. I don't remember the difference
<ColonelPanic001> and they open it for you
<snap-l> heh
<ColonelPanic001> I have no idea
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not sure
<snap-l> It would be cool if it was, since I like to play drums
<ColonelPanic001> do it.
<ColonelPanic001> I briefly thought about bringing my guitar
<ColonelPanic001> then I remembered I can play about five chords.
<ColonelPanic001> (not well)
<snap-l> he
<snap-l> heh
<ColonelPanic001> "oh right, having a guitar doesn't mean I know a damn thing about it"
<snap-l>  Howdy howdy
<rick_h__> party, snap-l how'd the podcast thing go?
<ColonelPanic001> it was good
<ColonelPanic001> (I went)
<ColonelPanic001> pretty awesome to see one made
<snap-l> rick_h__: yeah, it was pretty good
<snap-l> Got some lococast love in there as well
<snap-l> Almost all of the ribbonx are gone
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: remind me later to ask you about finding music
<snap-l> all of the Cds are gone
<ColonelPanic001> at the time your talk was low on time, and I figured I'd just ask later
<snap-l> Sure thing
<ColonelPanic001> I'm familiar with Jamendo and Magnatune, mostly the former, but you go about wading through the shit to find decent stuff
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: yeah, that's an art. :)
<snap-l> We'll talk. :)
<ColonelPanic001> cool stuff, thanks
<rick_h__> snap-l: awesome, good to hear
<ebarch> snap-l: just saw the ubuntu presentation...really enjoyed it!
<PainBank> yo how goes sys admin session?
<PainBank> well anyone here?
<jjesse> nope
<ebarch> the devops session?
<PainBank> ya the devops i believe
<PainBank> yup, that is the one.
<fdvalero> ?
<ebarch> yeah, it was pretty good. i took off after it was over to check out the latex demo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-01
<snap-l> ebarch: Thank you. :)
<rick_h__> how goes the festivities?
<snap-l> 'twas good
<snap-l> Didn't go to many panels, but the ones that I was part of
<rick_h__> cool
<snap-l> Though we went to the first-half of the Smithee awards
<snap-l> bad movie clips with a voting component
<snap-l> Worst Monster, Worst Special Effect
<rick_h__> hah, nice
<snap-l> Yeah, a lot of fun
<snap-l> Talked with tjagoda
<rick_h__> uh oh, you guys get him some help?
<snap-l> Heh, nah
<snap-l> Just asked if he used the tablet to check on RIM's stock price
<snap-l> That was the worst I dished out. :)
<rick_h__> hah, good stuff
<rick_h__> hopefully he's not an owner of too much of that stuff
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Back
<rick_h__> party!
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm a bit tired. :)
<snap-l> Lots of goodies from the con, though
<snap-l> and some good info
<rick_h__> very cool
<snap-l> Now catching up on e-mmail
<rick_h__> man, my sql-fu is hitting a wall
<rick_h__> anyone have a clue for the opposite of in() where I want something more like all() or something?
<Blazeix> most DBs do have some sort of 'all' statement, but I've never used it.
<snap-l> I think you have to nest it perhaps?
<rick_h__> it's a mess, thought I almost had it but meh
<rick_h__> I found some page on relational divisino
<snap-l> select * from blah where id in (select id from blah)
<snap-l> or some shit like that
<rick_h__> yea, http://paste.mitechie.com/show/304/ works to get me the id of the one I want
<rick_h__> but trying to represent it without the subquery: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/305/
<rick_h__> that's not coming out right
<snap-l> I'm not sure how you can do it without the subquery.
<snap-l> pindboard?
<rick_h__> just happened to be an exmaple from the set that worked
<rick_h__> trying to get all bookmarks with all of the tags specified
<rick_h__> there's one with the tags hosting and pinboard
<rick_h__> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/306/ these two queries should be equiv?
<snap-l> believe so
<rick_h__> oh lol
<rick_h__> misread the typo there
<rick_h__> right, no d there
<rick_h__> oh crap I think I've got it
<rick_h__> bwuhahahahaha
<snap-l> rick_h__: What was the problem?
<rick_h__> just a matter of getting the query put together right
<rick_h__> was missing a join condition I thought it was going to do auto for me
<snap-l> Ah, that makes sense
<rick_h__> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/307/
<rick_h__> :)
<snap-l> nice!
<rick_h__> ugh things are getting messy, but at least now has tag filter bar, completion of tag names as you type, and ajax results
<snap-l> I'm sure it'll get cleaned up soon
<rick_h__> yea, working to get things ready for MUG
<snap-l> There were 64 people in the Natty Panel
<snap-l> 19 max in the Podcasting talk
<snap-l> Pretty happy about that.
<rick_h__> yea, sounds like it went pretty well
<TeamXlink> lol
<TeamXlink> http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1304287882105.jpg
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-23
<rick_h> awesome, congrats snap-l
<snap-l> Yeah, laptop is running nit now
<jrwren> yay!
<jrwren> yay for upgrades
<snap-l> Heh. :)
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> yessir
<snap-l> http://ur1.ca/92i9l <- New club metal
<rick_h> wow http://readable.bmark.us/view/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fstevensalzberg%2F2012%2F04%2F22%2Funiversity-of-florida-eliminates-computer-science-department-increases-athletic-budgets-hmm%2F
<rick_h> no CS at FL, kind of crazy to think of a big state school with no CS program
<jrwren> anyone ever use twitter-bootstrap with django? I'm too django nub to figure out an easy way without disecting twitter-bootstrap
<jrwren> rick_h: that is INSANE!
<rick_h> jrwren: guess I'd start checkout out: http://goo.gl/Q3X7I
<rick_h> https://github.com/earle/django-bootstrap seems most watched/etc
<jrwren> that isn't it.
<rick_h> bug ugh, this is why I hate django...wtf...
<jrwren> that is just django-forms integration
<rick_h> you can't just add your own JS/css tooling without framework hacks?
<jrwren> actually, i swear there are a couple links in that google result that were not there last night.
<jrwren> maybe I was just too tired to find the right links last night.
<rick_h> gotcha
<rick_h> I'd imagine it's got to be a solved problem by now
<rick_h> I know I've seen several django apps use it, but not sure how and not rembmering the ones I hit recently
<jrwren> a lot of it is my css/html is so weak, that i relaly need an idiots guide
<jrwren> or i'm doing it wrong or somehting.
<rick_h> well bootstrap makes it fun with needing the sass/less integration to use it
<jrwren> ah, i didn't even get taht far. maybe that is part of the problem.
<jrwren> i should just try out static boostrap and amek sure its looking right first and then try django with it.
<jrwren> thanks rick_h
<rick_h> wtf, they have a 'download with docs' but no docs online on the site?!
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, so a lot of the css stuff is generated via sass or less (think it includes both sets of files? maybe not)
<jrwren> for bootstrap? i just git clone it
<rick_h> ah, looks like only less
<rick_h> jrwren: http://lesscss.org/
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, I saw that lack of a CS program at FL
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, notice the git clone has no css directory
<snap-l> I'm glad the athletic department is still going t strong, though.
<rick_h> it's generated via the less directory
<snap-l> I wouldn't want them to have to suffer.
<rick_h> snap-l: well I always hate that argument. I mean big athletic depts like that actually more than pay for themselves and are revenue generators
<rick_h> you can't compare that vs a CS dept
<rick_h> imo
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, whatever. :)
<snap-l> I have a problem with colleges having revenue-generating sports teams too, but that argument won't get solved in 10 minutes. :)
<rick_h> heh yea, that'll get into a whole field of things
<snap-l> But that's OK. I'm sure they'll have plenty of jock alumni who will give them gigabucks of cash when they go pro
<snap-l> as opposed to some lowly startup that manages to get funded.
<snap-l> But hey, when colleges and universities go completely online, I'm sure the athletic department will have been a great choice to fund.
<brousch> jrwren: what are you looking for in django integration that you don't get from just twitter-bootstrap?
<brousch> Quantal Quetzal
<jrwren> brousch: being able to point a view at index in twitter-bootstrap. I think i don't have static things mapped properly
<brousch> jrwren: that is likely. static is kind of a pita the first few times you do it in django
<brousch> you do static differently in dev than in production
<brousch> and it has improved every release, so many google searches turn up old advice
<brousch> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/howto/static-files/
<brousch> that is the official static files howto, but i found it hard to understand
<brousch> basically you put your static files in a couple of places in your project during development. the default dev server looks in all these places. when you deploy, you "collect" the static files into one place, and then you can easily send that dir where you need it (separate static server, S3, etc)
<rick_h> brousch: <3 the new name. Quetzal is in my son's animal flash cards for Q
<brousch> i always think of quetzalquotl, the mayan feathered serpent god
<rick_h> never haerd of it
<brousch> read a book once in a while!
<rick_h> hey, I do...check out my goodreads :P
<brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl
<rick_h> oh no, my wikipedia hit for the month has arrived snap-l :)
<snap-l> rick_h: I hope you get stuck somewhere in the Clone Wars.
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> Anyone know of a good link I can peruse for handling two databases in sqlalchemy?
<rick_h> yea, ask John. I've got an app that does that for staples
<rick_h> snap-l: is this for web or just scripts?
<snap-l> scripts
<snap-l> SPecifically one that uses your manager pattern.
<rick_h> oh, then just dupe the things poiting to a diff engine
<rick_h> same models across the two databases?
<rick_h> or different models in eaach db?
<snap-l> yes and yes
<rick_h> ok, well same models will be a bit more intersting. Different is easy, you just end up boostrapping the two separately and have a session1 session2
<snap-l> it's essentially something that wasn't designed to use two databases.
<snap-l> But because it's the typical "Oh, is just another load", it makes it tricky.
<rick_h> if you want to share models...you'll have to wrap the models with a method that generates the correct base and returns it
<rick_h> http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-connect-to-multiple-databases-in-SQLAlchemy
<rick_h> is a little bit plain, but get the idea
<snap-l> I'm looking at it now
<rick_h> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8831568/sqlalchemy-declarative-model-with-multiple-database-sharding seems like a close to showing you the multiple base
<rick_h> now imagine wrapping that in a function where you give it an engine string and get back a hooked up model
<rick_h> so you could call it twice and have a ver1 and ver2 hooked to each db separately
<snap-l> Yeah, I think I have a plan of attack
<snap-l> or at least something to keep me busy. :)
<rick_h> let me know if you hit issues, I've done it before
<snap-l> going to make it ugly first, and then clean it up
<snap-l> (ugly as in copying the models/meta.py file, and changing where it points to)
<brousch> hm, i'm suppose to espouse how awesome ubuntu 12.04 is at the release party, but i haven't touched unity in 5 months
<brousch> i think i'll talk about all the good stuff going into the server version
<jrwren> that is all anyone cares about anyway.
<jrwren> no one in their right mind uses desktop linux. ;)
<brousch> i can find maybe 2 people in GR that are running Unity and like it
<brousch> so anyways, is there a good source of all the new stuff that's been going on?
<jrwren> what new stuff? just snag all the things from debian and release. done. nothing "new"
<jrwren> :)
<brousch> juju and charms come to mind
<brousch> default versions of software people care about (python, php)
<rick_h> default version of pgsql
<snap-l> echo 43617665617420456d70746f720a | xxd -r -p
<rick_h> yea, fun one
<jrwren> 737466750a <-- put that in your pipe and smoke it
<snap-l> jrwren: 6774666f0a
<snap-l> Hey, we're looking like rick_h's two-factor. :)
<rick_h> 543107
<rick_h> too many #'s :P
<snap-l> ;)
<jrwren> snap-l: :)
<rick_h> waldo323_: ping, you get your python issue solved?
<waldo323_> more or less.....i likely didn't do things the right way but it works
<rick_h> hey, that's what counts ;)
<waldo323_> right, though i may show you the code at chc and see what  should have been done differently
<waldo323_> its possible that parts of it will be worth using again for future years
<rick_h> cool, look forward to it
<rick_h> just wanted to make sure you got it going ok
<waldo323_> it saved Matt, who does the program book,  a ton of time
<waldo323_> thanks
<rick_h> awesome
<waldo323_> it also saved sarah a bunch of time
<brousch> snap-l: I was listening to podcast and one started with some cool music. I wondered which podcast it was. Of course it was lococast
<rick_h> the last lococast had some interesting music. It ran a whole range
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<snap-l> And thank Magnatune, as I think most of it came from therem.
<rick_h> man, anyone else find it just staggering that between FB buying off instagram and not 550M for MS patents...they've basically written 1.5B (as in billion) in checks the last week-ish?
<snap-l> rick_h: And they haven't hit IPO yet
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, tack that on too
<brousch> if you used it you'd now how awesome FB is
<brousch> it's worth all that money
<snap-l> They're looking to keep Yahoo from spoiling the party
<snap-l> And any other patent trolls
<snap-l> Frankly, it's disgusting
<snap-l> but I can't fault them for it, because they're screwed if they don't.
<rick_h> yea, but give them credit. "Give me all your lunch money kid!" "umm, no thanks, I've brought myself a nice 45cal and I'll keep my lunch money kthx"
<snap-l> Like being forced to an orgy because if you don't, someone will take your kids
<rick_h> that's ...an interesting way of putting it lol
<snap-l> This photo still cracks me up:
<snap-l> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zf1pi210r0akx9w/Kenny_G_Miles_Davis.jpg
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<snap-l> Gah, I wish I had that hour back
 * waldo323_ gives it back
<snap-l> had a record in a table that was named closely enough to trick my mind into thinking it was right
<snap-l> mp_id instead of (correctly) mpi_id
<jrwren> don't you hate that?
<jrwren> i do.
<snap-l> jrwren: Yes
<snap-l> Well, what's worse is I'm working with hacked "new code"
<snap-l> so I'm thinking it's something more serious
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/0iQ70qJZjcHGn2jaMJyY/
<snap-l> This tickles me
<snap-l> "ratings information for non-subscribing stations will no longer be part of any
<snap-l> publicly released ratings reports, making it tough for the general public to
<snap-l> know exactly where stations rank in markets where there are non-subscribing
<snap-l> stations."
<snap-l> I eagerly await the day when Arbitron is a footnote in tastemaking.
<brousch> presentation time. this should be good
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-24
<snap-l> My phone has shipped
<snap-l> My phone has shipped
<snap-l> shipped shipped shipped
<snap-l> shipped shipped shipped
<snap-l> My phone has shipped
<widox> snap-l: hm, are you getting a new phone?
<snap-l> Yep, via Ting.com
<snap-l> https://ting.com/devices/Samsung-Galaxy-SII-Epic-4G-Touch
<widox> huh, no extra charge for tethering?
<snap-l> nope
<jrwren> is that an attempt at being seussian?
<rick_h> snap-l: yay
<snap-l> jrwren: No, it's an attempt at being happy. :)
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> <3 fast Internet
<snap-l> using my linode instance and ftp to upload episodes that took on the order of 5 minutes each to upload to archive.org on the home bandwidth
<rick_h> fast net is indeed good
<rick_h> ah yea, big pipes of servers is definitely good
<snap-l> 24s for two files.
<rick_h> heh, almost prime'd a lawn mower lol
<snap-l> What exactly were you going to prime? :)
<snap-l> bah, 19+ more episodes to upload onto archive.org
<brousch> i love my electric mower
<rick_h> I want to get a new mower
<rick_h> and was checking it out, and sure enough amazon had the one I was going to get
<rick_h> and with prime I'd be using it this weekend, vs next week for lowes.com
<rick_h> but the support/warranty situation is a bit more of a mess with amazon so went with lowes anyway
<rick_h> but thuoght it was funny to 2-day ship a lawn mower
<snap-l> rick_h: Always a joy to see the UPS guy hauling heavy or awkward stuff
<snap-l> even better when your bro-in-law has you order him shocks and a frame for his dirt bike.
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> Fortunately he has his own ebay account so he only gets in trouble with his wife, and doesn't drag me into it. :)
<snap-l> not that JoDee or I mind, but was pretty funny
<jrwren> snap-l: how fast are you getting?
<snap-l> From linode to archive.org? ~4MB/s
<snap-l> little higher, little lower.
<jrwren> not bad.
<snap-l> Yeah, I was able to upload two months of episodes this morning
<snap-l> which were five ogg / mp3 pairs
<brousch> heroku's speed has spoiled me. dreamhost feels so slow now
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> "Heartbeat in a straight line"
<jrwren> speed to upload or speed to serve pages or both?
<brousch> jrwren: upload and access over ssh and time to bring up the wordpress admin
<snap-l> http://clientsfromhell.net/post/21663324365/client-the-server-has-crashed-me-oh-how-do
<jrwren> brousch: same here with bluehost.
<jrwren> brousch: 3 sec to display teh wp-admin login screen, and 10+ to actually get teh wp dashboard.
<jrwren> UNACCEPTABLE.
<jrwren> I need to migrate.
<rick_h> cli tools for app mgt ftw!
<brousch> my grpug website on heroku is so much nicer to use
<jrwren> rick_h: agreed.
<jrwren> i'm thinking i should just host in s3, and if I need services, use parse.com or something :)
<brousch> comes up fast, add/edit the meeting in the django admin, get out. i can add a meeting quicker than i can start a blog post on DH
<jrwren> octopress or some shit.
<snap-l> nginx. :)
 * jrwren eyes roll
<brousch> i'm thinking of moving to a python blog on heroku
<krondor> jrwren:  octopress has been great, IMO for me.  I don't need all the WP bells and widgets more or less though...
<krondor> bluehost has been increasingly sucky though.  i3Detroit's site was horrible there and my SO's charity site too.. dreamhost is nice.
<waldo323> is i3 on a2hosting now?
<krondor> waldo323:  hmm, I know the move was planned.  I think I fell off the thread to see if it happened.  I think I'll check now.
<krondor> nope still on bluehost looks like we're waiting till our prepaid year is up.
<waldo323> ah
<rick_h> the bad thing with heroku is the app startup time when running on the free dyno
<rick_h> unless you can keep enough traffic to keep it busy
<rick_h> that keeps annoying me with the readable app
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopimism
<greg-g> g'morning
<snap-l> greg-g: ^^
<rick_h> morning greg-g about ready for some lunch? :)
<brousch> rick_h: i haven't really noticed a slow startup time
<rick_h> brousch: what is your app?
<rick_h> plus I'm easily annoyed :P
<brousch> tiny django site
<snap-l> Ah, so it's slow anyway. ;)
<brousch> :P
<snap-l> greg-g: Loving that faculty members are starting to get the message that Elseveir isn't the only way to publish
<snap-l> I hope in five years time we'll be having the conversation about how libraries are able to put their academic journal subscription money to better uses
<rick_h> heh http://www.techvibes.com/blog/the-death-of-rim-an-infographic-2012-04-23
<snap-l> They have a bad case of Palm Disesase
<snap-l> First to innovate, last to adapt.
<snap-l> I hope RIM spins off into separate hardware / software companies so the comparison with Palm will be spot-on
<rick_h> isn't that most companies over time though?
<snap-l> and both can die horribly.
<rick_h> heh yea
<rick_h> though I do still miss my e71 with keyboard at times
<snap-l> rick_h: Not all companies have to go that route
<snap-l> The ones that rest on their laurels must die, though
<snap-l> And when your business is poorly copying your competition, you'll be in a world of pain
<rick_h> I don't know, most businesses start out with an idea, implement it, perfect it, and then the time for thatidea passes
<rick_h> just happens so fast these days
<krondor> rick_h++ and they're not happy at a size.  They always have to get bigger which means new products which means dilluting their focus
<rick_h> man, I feel like such a bad guy, but stealing like mad from readability.com stuff lol
<snap-l> insert pithy quote about creativity and stealing.
<rick_h> heh
<snap-l> http://store.professorkliq.com/album/curriculum-vitae-2
<rick_h> little prettier, need to get the title/etc at the start. http://goo.gl/YzNgI
<rick_h> let me know if the background is distracting at all
<snap-l> I like the BG
<snap-l> looks like my twitter background
<rick_h> nice css hacky stuff
<snap-l> purdy
<greg-g> rick_h: I don't get the background (just black) on Fx 13.0a2 (verified the diff with chromium)
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, I've got to find the FF equiv
<greg-g> heh, css hack stuff that only works in Chrome/Chromium? say it ain't so!
<greg-g> ;)
<rick_h> it's new enough CSS3 stuff it needs the prefix
<greg-g> ah
<rick_h> I *think* it'll work just FF, but haven't added the -mozilla ones
 * greg-g doesn't know much about that stuff, honestly
<greg-g> ahhh
<rick_h> basically as a developer I get to repeat the same 6 lines
<rick_h> -mozilla-background...
<greg-g> that sounds, great
<rick_h> -webkit-background...
<rick_h> -o-background...
<rick_h> yea <3 web standards :/
<Blazeix> i think it's -moz-
<greg-g> well, that's what you get for using a standard before it is release! ;) (or something)
<rick_h> Blazeix: doh, right
<rick_h> greg-g: but but it's pretty!
<rick_h> and no images so I don't need to wish for a mac to do graphics again
<greg-g> bah, just get a wacom and you'll be fine, in fact: http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2012/04/13/gimp-2-7-for-photoshop-expatriates/
<rick_h> I don't get photoshop either, for me it was always illustrator
<rick_h> I could use that a lot, but I've never 'gotten' inkscape
<greg-g> ahh, well, I think she'll do an Inkscape one as well
<greg-g> ah
<rick_h> yea, I think it's my old school engineering/drafting background
<rick_h> I think like a drafter not artist
<jrwren> rush at the palace sept 18th
<rick_h> greg-g: sorry, you can't have the pretty background. Brings FF to it's kneeds
<rick_h> knees
<rick_h> won't scroll for nothing, wow does it hate that effect
<greg-g> wha!
<rick_h> try this: http://lea.verou.me/css3patterns/#carbon
<rick_h> now change the backgroud-size
<rick_h> and for me it barely lets me type in there
<rick_h> it's all herky jerky
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, though I'll need to wait to get home to get tix
<brousch> rick_h: why not just use a tiny image and tile it?
<brousch> and inkscape r0x
<rick_h> brousch: because it involves another http request, me with an image editor, etc
<Blazeix> i wonder at what point a data uri'd image becomes more efficient than supporting all the vendor prefixes.
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, that's very true
<brousch> oh wow, that is some crazy linear gradient there
<snap-l> rick_h: Here's your tile: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/bookie_tile.png
<snap-l> You're welcome.
<rick_h> man, can't find a linux client for the GDrive
<rick_h> :( "PC and Mac"
<rick_h> guess I keep giving my $$ to dropbox
<brousch> oh great. it's another picasa/sketchup?
<rick_h> crazy how docs is just renamed drive
<rick_h> snap-l: heh, not sure that's the tile I want to go for :P
<snap-l> rick_h: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/bookie.html
<rick_h> heh yea
<snap-l> hang on
<snap-l> rick_h: OK, reload it. :)
<snap-l> I found that on the internet, so it must be PD.
 * rick_h is scared
<rick_h> hah
<greg-g> snap-l: its in public, so its public domain, right?!
<rick_h> yea, no linux client boooo. Doing the whole sdk thing like dropbox
<snap-l> I think we lost something when we moved away from large image tiled backgrounds
<snap-l> greg-g: But of course.
<greg-g> snap-l: whew
<brousch> "You can install Drive on your Mac or PC and can download the http://goo.gl/yqx1r to your Android phone or tablet. Weâre also working hard on a Drive app for your iOS devices."
<brousch> wow. not even a mention of linux
<snap-l> OK, last one
<snap-l> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/bookie.html
<brousch> nice. 100GB for $5/mo. I pay like $40 for that on dropbox
<snap-l> No linux clinet = no deal
<snap-l> I already get dead-end products for free with Ubuntu One
<brousch> im still jrwrenning it
<brousch> snap-l: did you see the openphoto thing i posted yesterday? that seems right up your freetarded alley
<greg-g> brousch: if it didn't depend on Dropbox, it'd be great
<greg-g> or S3, I think
<greg-g> if I could just use my own dang server space
<brousch> right
<brousch> it says "or in your garage"
<snap-l> brousch: Nah, I use Picasa because SHotwell has a plugin for it. :)
<brousch> http://theopenphotoproject.org/overview
<greg-g> brousch: I admit, I may be working under facts from when it first came out and I was excited, joined the irc channel, installed, etc, but then got frustrated :)
<snap-l> "If you're a nerd who has your own server or hosting account then we've got you hooked up"
<snap-l> curl https://raw.github.com/openphoto/frontend/master/documentation/guides/InstallationUbuntuApache.sh | /bin/bash
<snap-l> fuck me in the neck
<brousch> greg-g is definitely a nerd
<jrwren> i'm a verb?
<brousch> snap-l: with what?
<greg-g> snap-l: that's just the view, though, not the backend (as it says in the download url)
<snap-l> Github is not package management
<greg-g> and yah, annoying
<brousch> jrwren: you are my verb for using osx while hanging out in #ubuntu-us-mi
<jrwren> ah.
<jrwren> you realize that is a recent development? I've only been doing that for 5 months.
<brousch> doesn't matter. i will make it stick. just like snap-l's apple fanboyism
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, because all of my macs are power PC or 68040-based.
<brousch> see. only a fanboy would keep old crap like that around
<snap-l> I guess I'm a commodore fanboy too
<snap-l> and an Atari fanboy
<snap-l> and an AT&T 3B2 fanboy
<greg-g> brousch: is persistent
<brousch> i'm google driving
<brousch> looks just like dropbox
<jrwren> do you have a Vic20?
<brousch> oh, d00d. i have 25GB of space because i upgraded my picasaweb storage
<snap-l> jrwren: I do not
<snap-l> nor do I have a C64
<jrwren> you need one.
<jrwren> O_O
<rick_h> yea, that's my interest in GDrive, I can stop paying both google for storage and dropbox for storage...and one day I'm sure I'll end up paying U1
<jrwren> Atari800XL?
<snap-l> jrwren: There was only one good game for the Vic20, and that was Omega race
<snap-l> jrwren: Of course. :)
<jrwren> i don't care about games.
<jrwren> i rarely played any games on these machines.
<snap-l> 400, 800, 1200XL, 800XL, XEGS
<jrwren> wow, nice atari collection
<snap-l> ty
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/The-Best-Of-Meco/dp/B000W1AO9E/ref=ntt_mus_ep_dpi_4
<brousch> ahahahah. i am paying $20/yr for 20GB of google storage. grandfathered in http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Screen%20Shot%202012-04-24%20at%201.17.28%20PM.png
<jrwren> i like how that is a dropbox url.
<brousch> yeah, i don't see sharing on gdrive
<jrwren> i've got 25G on skydrive
<jrwren> but i don't use it.
<jrwren> and I don't use my dropbox really, either.
<jrwren> never installed it on this machine.
<jrwren> i guess I don't find it useful
<brousch> i had all of my backups in dropbox, but now i use crashplan
<brousch> so i am only using about 15GB now
<jrwren> "backups" for me means rsyncing family photos/video to bluehost.
<jrwren> anything else, I don't care about.
<jrwren> although I'll probably change that backup to s3 soon
<rick_h> +1 on the s3 stuff
<rick_h> I am curious on the gdrive search stuff though
<brousch> crashplan is cheap. $5/mo for unlimited storage
<rick_h> if that works well might be cool
<jrwren> how do i send them my stuff?
<jrwren> do I have to run a shitty backup client?
<brousch> yes
<brousch> though i haven't had any issues with it
<jrwren> because rhinoback makes me install a virus spyware infested thing called JVM to use it.
<jrwren> i refuse.
 * brousch squints at jrwren
<snap-l> brousch: He has a point
<snap-l> OSX JVM is not secure
<snap-l> and Apple is pretty much saying they're done with it
<snap-l> iirc, their latest security fix is essentially "uninstall"
<snap-l> (at least on anything pre-10.6)
<snap-l> And lion doesn't ship with a JVM anymore
<jrwren> and Win32 prompts for me to install the ask.com toolbar <-- spyware
<jrwren> and EVERY upgrade of the JVM asks me again.
<jrwren> so sure, jvm isn't so bad on linux, but that is the only place it isn't so bad.
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm no fan of Java. The sooner the JVM gets off of client machines and into a headless server room, the happier I'll be
<brousch> Google Drive Feedback Form - beg for linux https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dG45cFM2TGRHUjhTRzkzay12eEtuWFE6MA#gid=0
<snap-l> fuck it
<snap-l> I'm sure they have a good reason for not supporting us winy linux users
<brousch> in the neck?
<snap-l> I'm tired of begging
<rick_h> yea, a bit easier this time since we do have options
<snap-l> I'm not taking up the cross of the OS/2 users
<jcastro> shrug
<jcastro> it just means Dropbox gets my money
<jrwren>  *nod*
<rick_h> yea, though I should give U1 another go
<jrwren> but wait, shouldn't you be all U1
<rick_h> jcastro: have you used it much? Perf any better?
<rick_h> jrwren: not if I'm paying for the privelege :P
<jcastro> rick_h: people keep telling me to try it
<jcastro> but I'm not going to go reinstall it on all my PCs and stuff
<jcastro> too lazy
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, actually looking I htink it'd be cheaper than my dropbox
<jcastro> maybe next reinstall?
<jrwren> you don't get U1 for free?
<jcastro> yeah, I already pay them for gmail/picasa
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, same here, another round of 30gb of upload :/
<jcastro> I want to consolidate more than anything
<rick_h> jrwren: no
 * jrwren works for a highly profitable employer 
<jrwren> does canonical publish a balance sheet? cash flow sheet? :)
<jcastro> http://support.google.com/drive/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=39567&p=butter_old_storage
<jcastro> nice, I got grandfathered in!
<jrwren> "Your Google Drive is not ready yet"
<rick_h> bah, I've got that under my old deuce868@gmail account
<rick_h> bah, ubuntuone install fail
<brousch> rick_h: will u1 work with awesome?
<rick_h> brousch: I thought I had it working at one time
<rick_h> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Headless
<rick_h> I'll have to play with that later I guess
<snap-l> http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2012/04/galaxy-nexus-now-on-sale-in-google-play.html
<snap-l> I have Dropbox on my Nook Tablet
<snap-l> haven't even set up U1 for the work machine. it's all Dropbox here.
<brousch> yeah, dropbox everywhere is really nice. and the LAN sync is unbeatable if you reinstall your OS
 * krondor reads scrollback... glares at his work assigned mac mini which kernel panicked two hours ago.
<jrwren> lol @ google owns everything you put on your gdrive :)
<snap-l> brousch: Ahem: http://status.net/2012/04/24/identi-ca-support-in-hootsuite
<brousch> ah, damnit
<snap-l> I'll expect you to be fully on identi.ca by morning
<brousch> i think it only has read support
<brousch> i can read things, but can't find a way to send
<brousch> ah, it uses a different post message box. that is silly
<rick_h> ok, dressed up a little bit http://goo.gl/0IStS
<brousch> snap-l: i put identi'ca on my front feed. i should see it and contribute
<brousch> some geeker already started following me
<greg-g> front feed?
<brousch> in hootsuite
<brousch> you create tabs and add feeds to the tabs
<brousch> i have one in the front that i read most often
<greg-g> ah
<greg-g> snap-l: wow, Humanist EP has some unfortunate vocals on the Liberate song (second)
<nixternal> greg-g: your damn idea of lvm & cloud storage got me thinking and wasting time damnit
<greg-g> nixternal: YES!
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> it wasn't my idea, it was someone else in my twitter stream a couple weeks ago saying they thought some new startup would be that service for you (manage your free cloud storage)
<nixternal> scratch the lvm for the time being, and use iscsi or webdav to connect to a main cloud app that will collect all of your other cloud storage services
<greg-g> but, since it was twitter, I don't remember who, so the idea is now mine, muhahahaha
<greg-g> nixternal: yeah, I mean kind of like lvm, not using lvm
<nixternal> then you can either do like raid0 or raid1 with them
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> an owncloud plugin that lets you navigate/access your cloud drives!
<greg-g> so you have mydowmain.net/owncloud/dropbox/whatever
<nixternal> then using something like the reed solomon algorithm, you can split data & put it back together, kind of like a cloud based tahoelafs
<greg-g> ooooo
<greg-g> alright, when will I see code?
<greg-g> :)
<nixternal> so if you have like 5 different cloud storage services, you write locally to a folder mapped to the total cloud app and it can split your data up. so if say ubuntuone drops off the face of the earth, your data is still out there for you to get
<nixternal> i have code here, though in java, that does a lot of that already. when i helped write it, it was gpl, but it no longer is upstream. i don't know how much trouble i have here in my hands
<greg-g> hrmmm
<greg-g> ugly sounding
<greg-g> was it ever published somewhere you can find on archive.org as proof of gpl?
<nixternal> nice thing is, tahoelafs has a very similar implementation & it is free in every sense of the word
<greg-g> yep, good ole zooko
<nixternal> cleversafe.org
<greg-g> oh right, forgot about them
<jrwren> rick_h: readable should use a serif font for readability.
<nixternal> http://web.archive.org/web/20081202183759/http://www.cleversafe.org/downloads/licensing
<jrwren> i don't know of any of these that expose their service as a block store, and even if they did, LVM over it would be so insanely slow, I don't think you would want this cloud thing of which you speak.
<greg-g> nixternal: cool, then if your code is pre or up to that point, you have pretty good evidence what you have is gpl v2
<greg-g> bah, I just used lvm as a way of describing what it does, tying in multiple "drives" into one logical place to put things. No slower/faster than the normal cloud things (which, really, are as fast as your local disk, just syncing takes a while ;) )
<greg-g> basically, get api keys from all services, give them to a central app that sees them all, access just that one central app
<nixternal> jrwren: you would expose a block store, that would then do all of the work just storing small bits of data on the cloud drives
<nixternal> i mean, dropbox does this already with your data, so it would be quite redundant, but good if you had your data spread out over say 4 or 5 services. that way there if 1 went down, say dropbox, you don't lose all of your data
<greg-g> (not that you really lose it, since it is local also, but yeah)
<greg-g> unless it tried to sync, saw nothing on dropbox's end, and deleted it all locally, that'd be hilarious
<nixternal> hrmm, didn't know a company could remove a person from their patents, but it seems they can. i can't find my name on any of them anymore :)
<greg-g> wow
<nixternal> i see they removed a few people actually from it.
<greg-g> didn't think you could remove the inventors, weird
<nixternal> well, co-inventors/developers probably
<greg-g> either way, seems odd to go through the trouble of dealing with the USPTO to do that kind of thing
<nixternal> not when you have one of them on your board :D
<greg-g> wow
<nixternal> ahh, found them.
<nixternal> there is so much 'you scratch my back, i'll scratch yours' going on it isn't even funny
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, they're pretty political
<nixternal> my dad, who has some crazy electronics patents for HD studio camera stuff spent years getting the stuff done. sony came along and took a few of them before he got them finalized and had them patented in a weeks time it seemed like
<nixternal> that is why he is anti-patent now
<greg-g> snap-l: I meant the tone, actually :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Ah
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I think the first song is the only really listenable song on that album
<snap-l> and it's damn catchy.
<rick_h> jrwren: but I looked into it, sans is more readable on screens, serif on print/e-ink
<rick_h> I did start out with serif though
<jrwren> i prefer serif, even on screen.
<jrwren> for prose
<snap-l> I prefer semisanserif
<greg-g> mono!
<snap-l> Only for code and IRC.
 * greg-g kids
<jrwren> why didn't non-mono irc every catch on?
<jrwren> is it just so ASCII art comes through?
<jrwren> or is it really just called instant message?
<jrwren> or campfile?
<greg-g> jrwren: ascii art I believe :)
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, I've been going back and forth so I went looking for research
<rick_h> jrwren: I think ideally it'll be a setting kind of thing perhaps, but we'll see. I'm trying out this sans for a bit
<greg-g> sans a setting?
<greg-g> badum ching!
<rick_h> greg-g: is sooo funny :P
<rick_h> locodir-user ?
<locodir-user_> my connection is messing up
<locodir-user_> sorry, been using ubuntu for a while, but still quite a bit of a noob
<greg-g> hello there!
<locodir-user_> hello
<greg-g> rick_h: someone who is connecting via the loco.ubuntu.com web interface
<locodir-user_> correct. was just looking for a better irc application for ubuntu
<rick_h> greg-g: ah, ok sorry
<rick_h> figured it was some sort of bot
<greg-g> locodir-user_: pidgin not working well for you?
<rick_h> locodir-user_: which have you tried/
<rick_h> ?
<greg-g> or empathy, whatever the default is
<locodir-user_> i have not tried any
<greg-g> ahh
<rick_h> ah ok
<locodir-user_> empathy is the default
<rick_h> well pidgin and xchat are two popular ones
<locodir-user_> i'll check out pidgin, i suppose
<greg-g> I would try that, see how you like it. other than that, yeah, what rick_h said, either pidgin (a lot like empathy) or XChat which is a more traditional irc client
<locodir-user_> alright, cool
<locodir-user_> i'll be back under another name once it's installed
<locodir-user_> :)
<greg-g> :)
<theflakeman> sweet. pidgin is pretty nice
<rick_h> theflakeman: congrats
<theflakeman> thank you, sir
<theflakeman> i'm from Bay City, Michigan, by the way
<greg-g> welcome to the Michigan LoCo IRC channel
<greg-g> any compliments, send 'em my way. Any complaints, talk to snap-l.
<theflakeman> haha, sounds good
 * greg-g is actually in SF, CA now
<greg-g> though I used to live in Ann Arbor
<theflakeman> that's cool. I have a few friends from Yspilante.
<theflakeman> just got them to start using ubuntu as well
<JonEdney> I'm trying to convince my Wife to go Ubuntu.
<theflakeman> i find that people complain until i actually install it
<JonEdney> I told her I would advertise to all Downriver!
<theflakeman> haha
<greg-g> very cool
<rick_h> JonEdney: good luck, my wife actually prefers it now, but work gave her a windows machine she has to use for some things
<rick_h> the new EMR system is web based so we're hoping she can use Ubuntu with it
<JonEdney> Yeah, I run a dual boot because work requires a chat client Ubuntu dont support, sucks but hey, i have fun with ubuntu the rest of my PC time.
<greg-g> the only thing you can't do is a chat thing? that sounds crazy, unless it is that Office Messenger thingy
<greg-g> crazy in that, man, it must be some crazy chat program
<theflakeman> i think the only reason my one friend still dual boots is so that he can play MTGO
<theflakeman> i tried installing it with wine, but it wouldn't take
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-25
<snap-l> Howdy
<snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/ <- Visit this with Chrome
<snap-l> Seriously, this is horseshit.
<greg-g> snap-l: or iceweasel
<snap-l> Even fucking Firefox isn't supported.
<greg-g> a little late for a april fools joke
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<greg-g> "We're working on getting the new Jamendo up and running! We know some of you are having problems connecting, but it will be ready SOON!"
<greg-g> 10 hours ago via twitter
<snap-l> http://jamendo.com/en
<snap-l> Wow, this is dreadful
<snap-l> They've just made finding stuff on their site 10x worse for me
<snap-l> I hope it's partly some growing pains
<snap-l> because if this is the final product, I'm going to be getting most of my music via bandcamp from now on
<greg-g> also, apparently they removed search by license, according to mlinksva
<snap-l> Well, their search is for shit right now
<snap-l> But that wouldn't surprise me
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/04/windows-8-on-the-desktopan-awkward-hybrid.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
<snap-l> Next time I feel the need to bitch about Unity, someone please bring up this article to show how bad it could have been
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> greg-g: You can still search by license on Jamendo
<snap-l> just happens that the search doesn't work. ;)
<snap-l> at least it doesn't work if you use "Latest Releases"
<snap-l> I thnk I figured it out.
<snap-l> well, maybe not
<rick_h> oooh, I might have to do an emergency laundry load pre-CHC today
<rick_h> from march 20th to april 25th, long turn around time
<rick_h> old school '4-6wks' kind of thing
<brousch> 4-6 weeks to get your laundry done?
<rick_h> hjkl shirt from teespring
<rick_h> forgot I ordered it actually until I saw http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/srk1q/ama_request_someone_who_has_been_delivered_their/
<brousch> you can wear it without washing it first
<rick_h> no, can't wear new clothes without a washing, nope nope nope
<brousch> i do it all th time
<brousch> grrrr. osx lion's workspaces are driving me nuts
<brousch> they randomly re-order themsels
<brousch> even gnome3 is more consistent
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> rick_h: Um, is it shipping today?
<rick_h> no, usps today
<snap-l> You sure?
<rick_h> which means I know what I'm sporting during my talk this weekend! bwuhahaha
<rick_h> snap-l: USPS tracking says yesterday it was at clarkston Post Office
<rick_h> so assuming they can get it on the delivery truck in one day
<snap-l> This is the post office we're talking about. :)
<jrwren> it is clarkston we are talking about
<rick_h> :P
<widox> rick_h: oooo, I've been waiting for mine
<widox> longest online order, ever
<rick_h> yea, no kidding right?
<rick_h> I thuoght I was ordering originally but guess it was just the "pre-order" phase until they reached the numbers required for a printing
<jrwren> wtf are you talking about?
<jrwren> surely not raspberry pi
<rick_h> jrwren: no, hjkl shirts
<rick_h> see http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/srk1q/ama_request_someone_who_has_been_delivered_their/
<jrwren> lol
<rick_h> hmm, there are some cool designs there on teespring, but I can't find a good way to browse ongoing campains
<rick_h> sucky
<brousch> i was hoping to wait a week, but i'm biting the bullet tonight. putting a new HD in the dell. too many annoyances on osx and too many upcoming linux demos i need to do
<rick_h> yea, either do it later or after
<jrwren> do you at least have an apple KB with your mac?
<brousch> it's a MBP
<brousch> nice machine. lovely touchpad, but i miss the nipple now
<rick_h> bwuhahaha
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<ColonelPanic001> I've accidently typed before on unfamiliar laptops, trying to use the keyboard nipple
<ColonelPanic001> "oh, right, some laptops don't have them"
<brousch> on the dell i got used to using the nipple to control the pointer and the tiny touchpad to scroll
<brousch> i wish i could afford a 500GB SSD
<rick_h> hmmm, big ssd...in raid...
<brousch> for the laptop
<rick_h> hmm, raid ssd on the laptop
<rick_h> :P
<brousch> remove the DVD and add a second ssd?
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> on the larger laptops
<brousch> hm, i think i can get away with 200GB if i move a bunch of pictures and videos to my desktop
<rick_h> I've been good as a 120 with getting pics/music off and using online/streaming for access
<jrwren> brousch: as a previous nipple fan, i've no idea how you can miss the nipple with how good an apple touchpad is.
<jrwren> on a windows or linux laptop, esp a thinkpad with its 10cm by 10cm touchpad, the nipple > touchpad, but on a mac with a nice 6" by 6" touchpad, the touchpad > nipple.  <-- i exagerate of course
<jrwren> I have a 64GB SSD and I am fine, I don't need any more because I don't store movies & music on it.
<rick_h> yea, I'm at 38GB on a fresh install. 64gb gets cramped, especially when I was doing screencasts/editing video
<brousch> rick_h: oh yeah, music too
<brousch> i could carry around a usb HD if i need more storage temporarily
<rick_h> I have a 2.5" spinning disk in a usb/esata carrier I keep in my bag
<rick_h> it's for all the big stuff, on the road needs
<brousch> right
<rick_h> esata ftw, I can't wait to upgrade the laptop and have true esata on board
<brousch> jrwren: i felt the same way when i switched from MBP to dell with nipple, now i think i prefer the nipple
<widox> VMs also eat up space quickly, I've been doing good on my 120GB SSD though
<rick_h> yea, but I honestly haven't gotten past 1 or 2 vms usually
<brousch> i just run little server VMs
<rick_h> and that's definitely a good esata use case I think
<brousch> oooh, OCZ 128GB for $130
<brousch> or sandisk 120GB for $130
<brousch> or even kingston 120GB. those seem reasonable
<rick_h> just compare reviews/numbers on them
<brousch> sandisk looks good
<jrwren> brousch: i was a huge trackpoint fan 10 yrs ago. these days I only prefer them when the touchpad sucks (sadly most do)
<jrwren> I do not use VMs
<brousch> oh man, newegg has a 1 day $30 discount on it too. $100 for this 120GB sandisk
<jrwren> at least not on a laptop
<rick_h> brousch: shoot, get that and at least stick it in the desktop
<brousch> i'm going for it
<brousch> if anyone else is interested: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171545
<jrwren> very tempting.
<jrwren> i could use it in my server.
<jrwren> replace the dying drive that hangs my server occasionaly
<jrwren> !!! https://developers.google.com/speed/spdy/mod_spdy/
<rick_h> what?
<jrwren> google released mod_spdy for apache under apache license.
<jrwren> looks pretty sweet.
<rick_h> yea, they've had a mod_spdy for a while, year ish?
<rick_h> 1.3yr it looks like by ticket tracker
<rick_h> supposedly nginx is supposed to be getting something this summer
<jrwren> but this is a release
<rick_h> lol http://goo.gl/81eyw
<jrwren> oh, maybe not.
<jrwren> sorry for the spam then.
<rick_h> yea, it's cool. I hope to use it sometime, but I've gone nginx so now I'm waiting for it
<rick_h> would love to see how it'd work for us on LP, but that's webops not me
<jrwren> very funny
<jrwren> *gasp* rick_h the nginx hipster
<jrwren> does nginx have a nice wsgi module?
<rick_h> no, I run uwsgi or gunicorn behind it
<rick_h> it's got a wsgi proxy bit I use
<rick_h> I need to update the doc: http://docs.bmark.us/en/latest/hosting.html#nginx-config
<snap-l> rick_h: That user agent string thing is the truth
<snap-l> what a complete cluster that became
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, thuoght people could appreciate that
<brousch> gunicorn is the bizomb
<brousch> for django
<JonEdney> Good morning folks.
<snap-l> Howdy
<rick_h> kind of cool http://i.imgur.com/k0pv0.jpg
<snap-l> Kind of sad
<greg-g> so much brand management it is amazing
<snap-l> What's also interesting is the overlap
<snap-l> A&W is both Dr. Pepper / Snapple  and Pepsico
<rick_h> oh wow, didn't notice that
<snap-l> And they don't even cover Vernors
<greg-g> whoa
<snap-l> work a summer in Bottle Return sometime. ;)
<snap-l> Also, I'm not entirely sure on the 7up line
<greg-g> haha
<snap-l> wikipedia says it's part of Cadbury / Schweppes
<jrwren> I own Kraft.
<snap-l> jrwren: Kraft owns you.
<brousch> snap-l: machines do that now
<rick_h> jrwren: heh that's what I was thinkihng. If kraft goes away I'm doomed
<jrwren> got some shared when phillop morris, err.. i mean altria sold off their holding
<jrwren> it was very fun to own and see all that they hold.
<jrwren> so I knew a lot of the Kraft side of that image.
<rick_h> ah, gotcha
<rick_h> own as in stock
<rick_h> I was looking at the products I use and which side I'm most dep. on
<snap-l> Yeah, Kraft is HUUUUUGE
<snap-l> Nabisco was a big purchase for them
<brousch> for you geeks with kids http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004UISEUG/ref=pe_175190_21431760_C1_cs_sce_dp_1
<snap-l> I'm a geek without kids, and I want.
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> Alas, I have just paid for Rush tickets
<snap-l> floor level
<snap-l> Alex side
<snap-l> Section C
<snap-l> http://www.palacenet.com/files/palace_gcs_map.pdf
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> you'll have to come by for dinner while you're up this way
<snap-l> I will now be selling off my worldly posessions.
<brousch> bah, rush is a fad. R2D2 wall decals are forever
<snap-l> rick_h: It'll be tight to get there. 7:30pm
<rick_h> gotcha
<snap-l> Hoping JoDee can get time off as well
<rick_h> lol, I forgot I got one of these vim shirts for my wife too
<rick_h> slowly geeking her out with python shirts and such
<snap-l> because she'll be a pissed off camper
<rick_h> ty pyladies
<brousch> your wife is writing python?
<rick_h> no, but got some pyladies gear at pycon
<rick_h> she's got a few geek shirts not, launchpad, pyladies, now vim
<brousch> mine sticks to scifi
<snap-l> Yeah, but will the gloves come off when she says she likes JQuery?
<jrwren> not just the gloves
<brousch> let's see if we can get her into ruby
<rick_h> hah! I was debating trying to get a YUI shirt overnighted
<rick_h> hey, I respect ruby, just can't find a use case where python doesn't work for me
<rick_h> honestly, I've read more ruby material than anything other than Python and JS at this poing :/
<snap-l> "we'll stay together for the boy, but it's a loveless marriage"
<rick_h> hah!
<jrwren> same here.
<jrwren> my current employer has large python investment and zero ruby
<jrwren> plus, I feel the python VM world is many years ahead of ruby.
<rick_h> I keep wanting to find use cases for ruby, but I just don't find hte 'this is ruby's perfect use case that python isn't good at'
<rick_h> so I try to keep an eye on it, learn from it's differences, but just not written much of it
<snap-l> Pro Tip: HMOs are worthless.
<jrwren> yeah?
<snap-l> unless you enjoy asking "mother, may I" of a primary care physician
<snap-l> which you'll probably have to select from a narrow list because there's very few doctors who can afford the insurance-mandated pay cut.
<snap-l> ie: most of the Beaumont doctors out there.
<jrwren> i went from buying my own healthcare to the new job's company plan and my employee contribution portion is actually MORE than it cost me to buy a plan for my family.
<snap-l> Yeah
<jrwren> I'd not use my emp heathcare, and keep buying myself except that once you figure the emp contrib is taxfree, it makes sense again.
<jrwren> but still, its disgusting
<greg-g> jrwren: oh man, yeah. We about did me on empl plan (since I'm free) and then put carrie/rowan on something else even though work covers them 50%
<greg-g> since the plan options we had weren't competitive (for families thinking about cost)
<greg-g> (we really aren't a family org, given the paternity policy was written the week Rowan was born, because of his birth, and the maternity policy is still being written, hopefully in time for my coworker's birth ;) )
<rick_h> that's surprising
<greg-g> we do the high deductible plan now (with a nice HSA earning interest) since we rarely use it and rowan's checkups are free
<rick_h> but paternatity stuff has always been absent in US companies I found I guess
<greg-g> yeah, except in CA for the last 10 years ;)
<greg-g> I mean, just surprising they had neither
<rick_h> yea, I would have expected a CA company with lots of young progressives like CC to have it
<jrwren> how big is the company?
<greg-g> 20ish
<jrwren> yeah a company that small has no time to waste on such policies.
<snap-l> Well, and the beauty part is now I get to explain that JoDee's gone off to Urgent Care to get something checked out to someone whom I pretty much picked this morning
<greg-g> ...until the first one comes around, yeah
<snap-l> out of a doctor directory.
<rick_h> heh, yea. we had to get a family doc
<rick_h> I happen to know a few :)
<snap-l> rick_h: You're lucky.
<snap-l> My previous doctor doesn't participate in the HMO
<snap-l> as apparently neither do most of Beaumont's doctors.
<rick_h> ah
<snap-l> I'm sure this won't be covered, and frankly I'm considering just asking to have the whole plan canceled.
<snap-l> because I asked to have it changed to a PPO, but the window to change it had lapsed.
<snap-l> and this is utter bullshit.
<snap-l> And for everyone who thinks that the healthcare system in this country is just hunky dory peachy keen need to form an orderly line so I can kick you in the head.
<shakes808> Good day all
<shakes808> I have a question, for I am a new Linux user
<rick_h> ask away
<greg-g> I also have tons of questions, even though I'm not a new linux user ;) But we might be able to answer yours.
<shakes808> I have LAMP set up on my laptop and when I am in Eclipse trying to test out some PHP, I can't make my directory choice to www/var
<shakes808> I have been looking through google searches for awhile and can't find one that will work
<shakes808> I tried to move the directory but via sudo
<greg-g> it is /var/www/ most likely
<shakes808> but I can't reach that level
<greg-g> I wouldn't move the directory
<shakes808> yeah I know
<shakes808> I sudo'd a directory there for PHP
<shakes808> but can't write anything in there
<shakes808> is there a way to get access for that?
<shakes808> I know it is a bad choice to be root
<greg-g> you created a directory where, exactly? What is the output of pwd when you are in it?
<shakes808> so Ihave been seeing
<shakes808> The LAMP is at the most base level. When I am in Terminal I have to go 2 levels before home
<shakes808> Eclipse defaults to home/workspace
<shakes808> or something close
<rick_h> right, but /var/www isn't writable by your user by default. it's owned by www-data user/group if I recall
<rick_h> so the general idea is to setup a directory you own, and add a virtualhost config to apache to point to it
<shakes808> and how do I gain access to be that user
<rick_h> or else change the /var/www owner to your account
<shakes808> I don't want to mess with it too much, so how do I make the owner my acct?
<rick_h> sudo chown -R $youruser:$youruser /var/www
<shakes808> and this will give me access to it?
<rick_h> right, then you'll own it and can write to it
<rick_h> you can check the permissions by doing ls -al /var/www
<shakes808> $youruser:$youruser         no pass needed?
<rick_h> it'll show you who owns and what permission settings are on the directory
<rick_h> you'll have to enter a password when you use sudo
<shakes808> alright
<rick_h> the $youruser:$youruser is setting the owner to user you, group you
<rick_h> username:groupname
<rick_h> actually, you probably want yourusername:www-data so that apache can still read/serve the files
<shakes808> I did the the sudo chown -R $un:$usn /var/www and it doesn't show up in the ls -al /var/www
<rick_h> what does ls -al /var/www show?
<rick_h> now, you didn't succeed in moving the directory right? You mentioned trying to?
<shakes808> total 20 drwxr-xr-x  4 root root 4096 2012-04-25 12:30 . drwxr-xr-x 14 root root 4096 2012-04-24 06:31 .. drwxr-xr-x  2 root root 4096 2012-04-12 22:11 html -rw-r--r--  1 root root  177 2012-04-12 21:36 index.html drwxr-xr-x  2 root root 4096 2012-04-25 12:30 php
<shakes808> right
<rick_h> put your output into a pastebin like this please: http://paste.mitechie.com/
<shakes808> can you see it?
<shakes808> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/648/
<rick_h> right, see how all the files are owned by root:root?
<shakes808> yes
<rick_h> you want them owned by you:www-data
<shakes808> alright so then the usn:www-data
<shakes808> do I need the $
<shakes808> or not for this one?
<rick_h> check out: http://catcode.com/teachmod/
<rick_h> it'll go through how to use chmod and help explain things a bit
<shakes808> alright, thank you
<shakes808> I will take a look at it
<rick_h> sorry, end of the day you'll need to understand this because you'll hit issues with this going forward
<brousch> shakes808: is there a reason you need things in /var/www ?
<brousch> wouldn't it be easier to install the apache userdir module (or whatever that's called) and work in your ~/public ?
<rick_h> because otherwise he needs to learn how to write apache virtualhosts :)
<shakes808> When I was working with Windows, I had the WAMP installed and that is just where I am used to seeing the files
<shakes808> localhost goes there
<brousch> i think we need to determine if this box is going to be an actual server or is just for dev
<shakes808> and I don't know how to change any of that
<rick_h> brousch: yea, but I don't think the apache config comes ootb with userdir setup and such
<shakes808> I figured it was just standard
<brousch> because chaing permissions on /var/www is not a good idea for a real server
<shakes808> The stuff that I am doing is just practice and what not.
<brousch> ok
<shakes808> When I get my server built, up and running, I will look more into it all.
<shakes808> For right now, I just want to get familiar with PHP / MySQL stuff for projects that I want to try to work on
<brousch> rick_h: you're right, there's a lot more to userdir than i remembered http://www.techytalk.info/enable-userdir-apache-module-ubuntu-debian-based-linux-distributions/
<shakes808> I also want to try to get some Python going for the web. I am not 100% on board with it but am hearing that it is pretty good
<brousch> python is the bizomb
<brousch> forget php
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> I don't like the non-structuredness of Python
<shakes808> I like C++ where you have definitive { }
<shakes808> I did see the joke of #{ and #}
<brousch> non-structured?
<greg-g> uhoh, queue rick_h
<shakes808> that doesn't help when the whole premise is indents
<greg-g> ;)
<brousch> you don't need curly braces, it's all done with indentation
<shakes808> if something is not properly indented then it throws the whole thing off
<rick_h> I did php for a living for 5+ years
<rick_h> if I never write another line my life will be happy
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h> I now get paid to write python web for the last...4 years?
<brousch> just like if something is not properly {} it will be wrong
<rick_h> python web > php web
<shakes808> And you like Python better?
<shakes808> why?
<rick_h> no questions about it
<shakes808> But finding { } is easier than a section not indented or indented too much
<rick_h> python is a better language, the standard library is better, writing it is better, the load an app and keep it running vs reparse on every request is better
<snap-l> I worked with PHP for ~1 year. Reading other people's PHP code will make you not want to write PHP.
<rick_h> no no no no no no no no
<rick_h> if you're writing php and not using phpcodesniffer stop...go get it...and run it
<rick_h> then go make your php acceptable and come back and talk
<shakes808> lol
<brousch> shakes808: it's actually really easy to see the code structure when it's indented properly
<rick_h> every language should be written to a code convention which includes newlines/indentention
<rick_h> the space significance in python is great, and pep8 means that most python is 10x more readable than php ootb
<rick_h> does it take a little getting used to? sure, but I mean it takes a day
<rick_h> shakes808: where are you located?
<shakes808> MI
<rick_h> I figured that :P
<shakes808> I think I met you rick_h
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> I believe I work with snap-l
<rick_h> if you're in the SE area come to penguicon this weekend, or CoffeeHouseCoders any wed and I'll fix your anti-pythonisms
<rick_h> shakes808: ah, ok
<rick_h> shakes808: so you were at MUG right?
<shakes808> Yes
<shakes808> I believe I sat behind you
<shakes808> You did a presentation
<shakes808> the first one
<rick_h> then dude, come to CHC, we'll fix your PHP issues and your python h8
<shakes808> correct?
<rick_h> right
<rick_h> discussion awesome python tools ;)
<shakes808> :D
<rick_h> discussing that is
<shakes808> about.... the HTTP request?
<rick_h> right, httpcode and something else
<snap-l> shakes808: You believe correctly.
<shakes808> :D
<brousch> ah, good, another soul saved by rick_h
<shakes808> CHC every Wednesday night, I will try to come next week.
<shakes808> HA HA
<rick_h> shakes808: yea, go tell John that you told me you don't like python because of spaces. I bet he'll be surprised you survived. :)
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes808> I will when I am in the office tomorrow
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> Eclipse has a Python plugin?
<rick_h> bah... :P
<shakes808> I know I know
<shakes808> VI
<shakes808> VIM
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> I am not that good... yet
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> I messed with it for a moment
<rick_h> yea, there's pydev
<rick_h> but also check out wingide and pycharm
<shakes808> I come from Visual Studios and intellisense :D
<brousch> i still like pydev
<brousch> it works well
<brousch> and t's free
<shakes808> Eclipse is free as well
<brousch> yeah, so i think it's a good thing to try if you're used to big IDEs
<brousch> it's been rolled into Aptana Studio now. http://www.aptana.com/products/studio3/download
<brousch> aptana studio also has all of the web plugins you'll need to do web stuff
<shakes808> but that one, if I remember correctly, you have to pay for it
<brousch> nope
<brousch> it's just eclipse pre-bundled with good stuff
<shakes808> gotcha
<shakes808> what version of Python should I get for web?
<snap-l> I'd stick with the 2.7 series for now
<snap-l> with the understanding that at some point you'll want to move to Python 3
<snap-l> 2.7 / 2.8 have features in them that are backported from Python 3
<shakes808> Then why not just go to 3?
<snap-l> Not every library has been ported yet.
<shakes808> alright
<snap-l> But significant effort is underway that it's a question of when, not if, Python 3 will be adopted.
<snap-l> I'd give it about a year / year and a half before folks stop recommending 2.x series Python
<snap-l> but not yet.
<shakes808> alright
<shakes808> If I am in Eclipse and in the Install Software area to get download the necessary stuff for Python, what is the site I need to enter? http://www.python.org/download/ isn't recognized
<shakes808> or is there a terminal way?
<snap-l> shakes808: If it's all the same, don't use eclipse. :)
<shakes808> I don't think I am ready for VIM
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> You're on Linux, right?
<shakes808> and Eclipse makes everything in one convenient place
<shakes808> yes
<snap-l> Python is already installed.
<shakes808> How do I check?
<snap-l> type `python` in a terminal
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes808> sweet
<shakes808> So then just use VIM lol
<shakes808> since that is just command line stuff
<snap-l> Yep, or for very simple programs you can use the Python interpreter
<shakes808> So then I have to dig up my old Python book from my game class
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> lol\
<snap-l> ie: type `print(2+2)` should print out 4
<shakes808> is there a Python interpreter default on here?
<shakes808> I already print "hello world"
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> When you type `python` without specifying a program to run, it'll bring up the REPL
<snap-l> (Read - Eval - Print Loop)
<shakes808> ?
<snap-l> (the interpeter  with the >>> prompt)
<shakes808> yes, but that is just one liners
<snap-l> Funny enough, because it's Python, you can create more than one-liners. :)
<shakes808> I have to use VIM for whole programs
<snap-l> type in:
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> for i in range(1,10):
<snap-l>     print i
<snap-l> and hit return again
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> cool
<snap-l> I wouldn't recommend writing entire programs that way, but it is handy for non-trivial one-liners.
<shakes808> I will hold off on some of this stuff until next week for CHC's crash course ;) lol
<shakes808> rick_h: For the web stuff, what do you use?
<rick_h> shakes808: as far as what? python?
<rick_h> what framework?
<shakes808> yea
<rick_h> I use pyramid, zope at work
<rick_h> I'd suggest starting with flask if you're new to python
<rick_h> it's tough to learn a framwork and language at the same time
<rick_h> so almost say try to start going python with cmd line scripts/etc
<rick_h> that's a big plus for python, you can use it for cmd line, gui tools, web tools
<rick_h> it's a very featured language
<shakes808> I have had an intro to game class where Python was the language
<shakes808> It was fun
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> but frusturating
<snap-l> Did you use Pygame?
<shakes808> yes
<snap-l> What did you find frustrating about it?
<shakes808> just the indents
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> the language in general
<snap-l> Bah
<shakes808> but it was pretty easy to understand
<snap-l> https://sourceforge.net/projects/busybusybugs/
<shakes808> but  when  you have 500+ lines and something isn't working correctly and the debugging sucks, unless there is a good debugger that I don't know about
<snap-l> There is
<snap-l> but the trick is to not shove everything into one file
<snap-l> unlike the example I just posted. ;)
<shakes808> lol downloading it
<shakes808> When getting something from sourceforge, I am getting the zip of the entire project, correct?
<snap-l> Yeah
<widox> rick_h: get your vim t-shirt?
<shakes808> I need to install pygame
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h> widox: yep, came in
<shakes808> question
<shakes808> ....
<shakes808> nevermind I think I know what I did
<widox> rick_h: ah, just see your tweet. is it grey or black?
<shakes808> for got sudo
<rick_h> widox: black
<widox> ok, mine too. its looked a bit light in the pic
<rick_h> yea, bad pic
<shakes808> says it is unable to locate the package after the dependencys were done downloading
<rick_h> shakes808: more info please?
<rick_h> jcastro: your post looks empty?
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> I did sudo apt-get python pygames and it put out
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> so sudo apt-get insteall python will install python
<shakes808> Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree        Reading state information... Done E: Unable to locate package pygame
<rick_h> to see if pygrames is packages you need to
<rick_h> apt-cache search pygame
<rick_h> python-pygame - SDL bindings for games development in Python
<rick_h> so you'd need to do:
<rick_h> sudo apt-get insteall python-pygame
<rick_h> install taht is
<rick_h> or use the software center to search pygame and find it
<shakes808> alright
<shakes808> working
<shakes808> I want to try to NOT use software center
<shakes808> I won't learn Linux that way
<rick_h> ok, wasn't sure where you're at there
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> gotcha
<shakes808> It seems to be working better now
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> thank you\
<jcastro> rick_h: what post?
<jcastro> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/ I'm on this podcast live in a few minutes to talk about juju!
<shakes808> :( won't run, error in the code
<shakes808> BAD SNAP
<shakes808> BAD
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h> jcastro: http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/04/23/stacktack/
<brousch> shakes808: for python in eclipse, install the eclipse plugin version of aptana studio http://www.aptana.com/downloads/start
<shakes808> thank you
<brousch> the instructions for how to do it are on that page
<jcastro> rick_h: ah, that's a draft, fixing, thanks!
<brousch> then there is a little post-install setup for the pydev module in eclipse
<snap-l> shakes808: Works here. What's the bug?
<shakes808> says
<shakes808> no soundcard
<shakes808> traceback
<shakes808> line 13
<shakes808> of run_game.py
<shakes808> main.main()
<shakes808> then line 536 in main
<shakes808> game()
<snap-l> Do you have libsdl-sound installed?
<shakes808> and line 342 in game
<snap-l> You'll also need libsdl-image and libsdl-ttf
<shakes808> pygame.mixer.music.load(musicfile)
<shakes808> pygame.error.....
<snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
<snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
<snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
<snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
<shakes808> o
<shakes808> k
<snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
<snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> So how do I find out about the libsdl-sound and the image and ttf?
<snap-l> just type "apt-get install libsdl-sound libsdl-image libsdl-ttf2"
<shakes808> alright
<snap-l> sudo apt-get install libsdl-sound1.2 libsdl-image1.2 libsdl-ttf2.0-0
<snap-l> That should give you joy.
<shakes808> lol the one with the version numbers?
<snap-l> yes
<shakes808> sudo apt-get install libsdl-sound1.2 libsdl-image1.2 lidsdl-ttf2.0-0
<shakes808> didn't work
<shakes808> E: Unable to locate package lidsdl-ttf2.0-0 E: Couldn't find any package by regex 'lidsdl-ttf2.0-0'
<snap-l> It's lib, not lid
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> WHOOO HOOO I am awesome, thank you snap
<snap-l> We've all been there.
<shakes808> alright, working. Thank you
<shakes808> Sorry for being so ignorant to the Linux world.  :D
<shakes808> Working on not being so ;D
<shakes808> still same error
<shakes808> do I have to restart something?
<snap-l> shakes808: no, you sholdn't need to restart
<shakes808> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/649/
<snap-l> Ah
<snap-l> sudo apt-get install freepats
<snap-l> (I used a midi file)
<shakes808> alright installing
<shakes808> going to take a long time
<shakes808> 60 mins
<shakes808> :(
<shakes808> What is this?
<brousch> geez
<shakes808> knocked down to 30
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> a little better lol
<snap-l> It's MIDI sample files
<snap-l> they'll take a little while to load
<shakes808> in the mean time
<shakes808> I will look at the code :D
<snap-l> Don't judge me
<shakes808> The stuff that I did was out of the book. I altered the source from the book for my own game :D I was porting it to C++ with a buddy of mine for our C++ / DirectX class
<shakes808> Didn't finish it
<shakes808> but got far along :D
<shakes808> linked lists were our downfall and memory management
<shakes808> speaking of
<shakes808> is there a way for Python to do memory management?
<snap-l> It does it for you
<shakes808> When I altered the code of the game I was working on, it started to lag like no othere
<snap-l> It uses garbage collection
<shakes808> not very well
<shakes808> that was another thing I had against it
<shakes808> it didn't seem like it had a good memory management system
<snap-l> Um, I haven't run into an issue with it
<snap-l> you might have had a memory leak
<snap-l> It's pretty easy to di if you're not careful
<shakes808> I will try to find the game and bring it next week
<snap-l> And pygame doesn't handle thousands of sprites efficiently.
<snap-l> I wrote some sample code that bogged pretty hard.
<brousch> yeah, a lot of sprites or movement of sprites gets ugly
<brousch> or spinning
<shakes808> I think I had like 8 sprites and it was having difficulties
<shakes808> It was like Galaga / Asteroids
<brousch> i had big slowdowns with spinning sprites
<shakes808> They were doing that too
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> shakes808: One beginner mistake I've made too is thinking you didn't need to use the timer.
<shakes808> and randomly shooting
<brousch> that was probably the big problem
<snap-l> The timer is key
<shakes808> I will have to find it
<shakes808> FOUND IT!!!!
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> How am I going to get it to you?
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> just wait until tomorrow?
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> Depends on how man files it is.
<snap-l> Is it one file, or multiple files?
<shakes808> multi
<snap-l> Do you have dropbox?
<shakes808> AH HA
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> yes
<shakes808> I forgot all about it lol
<snap-l> zip it up, and put it in dropbox
<shakes808> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13889126/Python/Python.zip
<shakes808> Thank you for all of your input
<shakes808> I actually need to get going
<shakes808> Need to grab some food and then going to the Tiger game tonight
<shakes808> :D
<brousch> ah, what the crap. someone going to the next wmlug meeting sent me an email with the entire content of the email in the 3 line long subjects
<snap-l> Um, this is several chaptesrs
<shakes808> ?
<snap-l> It's 12 chapters of what looks like sample code.
<shakes808> It shouldn't be
<shakes808> i see the pictures
<shakes808> 2 folders
<snap-l> You might want to check what you sent me.
<shakes808> and other stuff
<brousch> shakes808: thank you for giving me some hope for today's youths
<shakes808> oh lol wrong link
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> uploading the right one
<shakes808> I saw python
<shakes808> not final lol
<shakes808> You can  see what was covered in the class ;)
<shakes808> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13889126/Python/FINAL222.tar.gz
<shakes808> Try that one out
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> :D
<snap-l> Ye gods, it's 35mb
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> Alright
<snap-l> laterness
<shakes808> have fun making fun of my code :D
<shakes808> I will hop back on in the A.M.
<shakes808> You all have a good night
<brousch> wow, i thought i went to bed early
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> I need my "beauty" sleep ;) You should see how ugly I am now. Any help to change this fact is good help :D
<brousch> python makes anyone 10% more handsome
<snap-l> I need all the percent I can get.
<Blazeix> look at guido, can't get much better than that
<brousch> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2003/07/09/photos1.html?page=3
<brousch> it's all about the hair
<rick_h> kind of cool: https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/graphs/contributors
<widox> w00t, 5 commits!
<brousch> hm, i don't even remember committing
<rick_h> think it might have been a docs thing
<brousch> damnit, now i need another one to catch up to widox
<rick_h>     Small hosting doc changes
<rick_h> brousch: yea, you submitted some of the hosting docs it looks like
<rick_h> <3 git log
<widox> brousch: nooooo
 * brousch finds some spelling errors
<brousch> why is there no big-ass "Report a bug" button on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ ?
<rick_h> brousch: because you didn't pick a project to 'report a bug' against
<brousch> i can never figure out what project my bug goes to
<brousch> i ave a problem with a certain color theme
<brousch> i picked kde meta
<brousch> kubuntu meta
<jcastro> use the automated tool
<jcastro> we turn off web reporting because most bugs submitted have 0 detail that you need to fix a bug
<jcastro> do "ubuntu-bug -w", and then click on the window of the app you want to report the bug to
<brousch> nice feature, but this particular thing is not a proper window. i can't click it with that tool
<brousch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/988612
<jcastro> brousch: on ask ubuntu ask "What package provides the wifi widget in Oxygen?"
<jcastro> that should get you the package name you need
<brousch> heh
<greg-g> so, about that actual work I was supposed to do today?
<greg-g> planning two trips took longer than it should
<rick_h> greg-g: side day
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-26
<jcastro> greg-g: hey so
<jcastro> this battery thing won't work
<jcastro> I was going to gift daker my laptop with the small battery and just give you the extended one
<jcastro> but his visa got declined. :-/
<brousch> oh yeah, nice big sexy system monitor widget
<greg-g> jcastro: sad
<greg-g> jcastro: but no worries, I should just bite the bullet and order it from amazon/whatever. nothing is showing up on the lenovo outlet
<jcastro> rick_h: http://i.imgur.com/pfhuX.png
<brousch> and the fun begins https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/988612
<snap-l> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2012/04/you-kids-today-i-dont-even/
<snap-l> jcastro: Oh ffs
<rick_h_> jcastro: lol on the pic
<snap-l> http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2012-04-26-ooo-comparison.html
<snap-l> I eagerly await the shitstorm from this
<snap-l> Also Pro-Tip: Do not do an image search on razor fetish with even moderate safe search enabled.
<brousch> snap-l: noted
<brousch> kubuntu lts is released!
<brousch> heh, no updates. i guess i'm already on it
<brousch> anyone having trouble with dropbox install on 12.04?
<tjagoda> Wooo
<tjagoda> Happy Ubunut 12.04 day
<snap-l> Is it out?
<snap-l> Is it out?
<snap-l> Is it out?
<snap-l> Is it out?
<snap-l> Is it out?
<snap-l> Is it out?
<tjagoda> 3 minutes ago Ubuntu posted a facebook status saying its out
<tjagoda> however
<tjagoda> they linked to www.ubunut.com
<snap-l> Is it out?
<snap-l> Is it out?
<tjagoda> I lol'ed hard
<snap-l> Is it out?
<snap-l> Is it out?
<snap-l> ;)
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> v
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes
<tjagoda> Yes!
<tjagoda> Maybe now the bastards will respond to my application
<brousch> damn spammers
<tjagoda> which has been open for the last 30 days
<tjagoda> Never had a canonical app open so long
<tjagoda> usually they at least close it or contacted me within 1-2 weeks of applying
<rick_h_> snap-l: so you following all the 'what's new in 12.04' posts yet?
<brousch> link to a good one if you find it
<brousch> i'm supposed to talk about this thing i've not used tonight
<tjagoda> When is the penguicon release party?  Fri or sat?
<rick_h_> friday night, one hour window so be on time :)
<rick_h_> brousch: http://benjaminkerensa.com/2012/04/26/ubuntu-12-04-lts-releases-today
<rick_h_> come on, that's one sexy list ;)
<tjagoda> I wont be there friday night
<tjagoda> might come out saturday
<rick_h_> you're not coming to my talk?! That's it, where's the kick function in here
<tjagoda> lol
<tjagoda> Make Canonical reply to my application, rick_h
<tjagoda> MAKE IT SO
<rick_h_> tjagoda: yea, I'll just send a nice 'all hands' email to all 500 people to get someone on it :P
<tjagoda> just to all the recruiters and people in the technical account manager team, that'd be fine =P
<brousch> rick_h_:  that's actually quite disappointing. i know there has to be more good stuff. multiarch, bunch of unity stuff, annoying dns change
<snap-l> rick_h_: Wow, that's all sorts of sexy in that list
<rick_h_> brousch: http://qa.ubuntu.com/ that's the big thing I'd bring up honestly
<brousch> this fixed the dropbox problem for me http://www.liberiangeek.net/2012/04/install-dropbox-in-ubuntu-12-04-precise-pangolin/
<rick_h_> hmm, didn't have any issues here myself, but I think I might have installed from the ubuntu repos
<brousch> i tried from the download from dropbox. it wanted some other version of a library
<PainBank> see bottom of page here: http://trac.webkit.org/wiki/WebInspector
<PainBank> links to here: http://muellerware.org/papers/weinre/manual.html
<rick_h_> PainBank: http://www.webkit.org/blog/1875/announcing-remote-debugging-protocol-v1-0/
<PainBank> doh, wrong links
<PainBank> errr forum.
<PainBank> rick_h_: thanks.
<PainBank> rick_h_: have you tried it yet?
<rick_h_> PainBank: no, I've thought about trying it out on my phone but not gotten around to it yet
<rick_h_> http://paulirish.com/2011/a-re-introduction-to-the-chrome-developer-tools/
<rick_h_> PainBank: I think Paul Irish demos it in this video ^
<PainBank> yup, looks like it.  have to watch it now.
<tjagoda> ubuntu.com is getting seriously hammered
<tjagoda> but
<tjagoda> it still completes page requests
<tjagoda> nicely done, netadmins
<PainBank> rick_h_: are you working full time or contracting still?
<rick_h_> working full time for launchpad
<PainBank> cool
 * PainBank jealous of rick_h_ , now need to do more, so I can get a coolio job like his.
<shakes808> Good morning all
<shakes808> rick: What time does CHC meet?
<rick_h_> 8pm every wed
<rick_h_> 7pm the last wed of the month
<shakes808> sounds good
<rick_h_> http://coffeehousecode.appspot.com/locations/detroit.html
<shakes808> putting it in my calendar :D
<shakes808> Thank you
<rick_h_> there was another new guy there last night working on learning python/flask
<shakes808> Do you know if he will be there next week?
<rick_h_> no idea, never know who'll make it week to week
 * PainBank loving the video from Paul Irish... using color #BADA55
<PainBank> rick_h_: ya you do, your always there.  And snap-l or at least most of the time you guys are.
<shakes808> So the GURUs  of Python ;)
<shakes808> And rick, I will tell John about my comments for Python when he gets in and see what he says ;)
<rick_h_> hah!
<snap-l> ho boy.
<snap-l> Apparently one of the bands that I was going to be interviewing isn't aware they put their music under a Creative Commons LIcense.
<rick_h_> snap-l: doh!
<snap-l> Even though they have two albums under that license.
<snap-l> One of the interview questions I have is:
<snap-l> What prompted you to use Creative Commons over just releasing the
<snap-l> album "for free"?
<shakes808> snap: you interview bands? Local or National?
<snap-l> and they balked at the question
<snap-l> shakes808: International
<shakes808> Nice
<shakes808> Metal, I am assuming with your podcasts?
<snap-l> Ones that release under the Creative Commons license.
<snap-l> Yeah, they're all for the podccast.
<shakes808> nice
<snap-l> So I have to get that sorted prior to the interview.
<snap-l> http://spikethetomb.bandcamp.com/album/gods-be-forgotten-e-p
<shakes808> I listened to some of your podcasts, brings me back when I was doing radio programs and interview local bands lol and putting the band I was in on the air :D
<brousch> snap-l: heh, they don't seem like the most organized band
<snap-l> The sick thing is they're REALLY good, so I'll be pretty upset if they decide not to release CC
<snap-l> shakes808: Ah, another radio junkie. ;)
<brousch> CC? oh shit! we thought that meant pay with credit cards!
<shakes808> When I was in High School, we had a radio / tv program
<snap-l> brousch: They're actually more organized than you might think
<shakes808> I had like 2 - 3 shows I was either hosting or guesting on
<snap-l> shakes808: Ah, nice. How many watts?
<shakes808> Not sure, it was school ran
<shakes808> they had their stuff already set up and what not in the school
<snap-l> brousch: But yeah, I'm not sure how you would accidentally release under CC
<shakes808> so we had to make sure we edited the shit out of the songs
<snap-l> shakes808: Oh yeah
<shakes808> that was a fun expierence lol
<snap-l> We had folks review the albums to find the naughty words
<shakes808> I still listen to that station every now and again
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> Unfortunately, someone forgot to mark Pop Will Eat Itself's "Not Now James" as NO!
<shakes808> we did all our own adverts and what not
<shakes808> It was awesome because I could plug my bands shows for free :D
<shakes808> :D
<snap-l> so I played "listen here cocksuckers, motherfuckers pay respect to my building"
<snap-l> got a call for that. :)
<snap-l> fortunately no fine.
<shakes808> That song that you posted in here is pretty good
<shakes808> I like the drums
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> Are you FCC regulated?
<snap-l> Podcasts? No, thankfully
<shakes808> HA AH
<shakes808> HAHA
<shakes808> good
<snap-l> Though I do have a license still.
<snap-l> I thnk they're lifetime licenses.
<shakes808> thats cool
<shakes808> is it hard to run the casts?
<snap-l> Not really. I'll be putting one together at Penguicon this weekend as part of a podcasting presentation
<shakes808> nice
<shakes808> Penguicon is this weekend?
<snap-l> Yep
<shakes808> OOO B.Nektar is going to be there :(
<shakes808> MMMM MEEEEAAAD
<shakes808> They are a good bunch of people :D
<shakes808> Wish I could make it
<shakes808> maybe the next one
<shakes808> Do you know when the next one is?
<rick_h_> a year from now ;)
<shakes808> ha ha
<shakes808> same dates?
<shakes808> or around the same dates?
<snap-l> Usually around the same time
<shakes808> cool, If I am able to go, for sure :D
<jrwren> this is why I fear the cloud for my use. I don't want a 1000$ bill one month because of my mistake: http://www.behind-the-enemy-lines.com/2012/04/google-attack-how-i-self-attacked.html
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, we've had that were test machines hang and you don't notice and end up running a large ec2 instance for days
<shakes808> geeez
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> Interesting
<snap-l> Every time I think I have cracked the QoS nut, I feel like I have somehow screwed my network up even further. :)
<snap-l> http://ur1.ca/93u6t <- DIsney job
<snap-l> It's in Seattle, so rick_h_ is forbidden from taking it
<rick_h_> bah, I just added seattle and portland to my weather.com quick list so I can see what I'm missing
<rick_h_> bah, RHEL shop...can't do it
<snap-l> rick_h_: rain, with a chance of rain. Highs in the upper rain. Tonight: More rain with rain possible. Tomorrow: High chance of rain with rain flurries.
<rick_h_> yay rain!
<snap-l> I think I'm going to have to pause planet Ubuntu for a while.
<rick_h_> heh, ubuntu.com went boom
<jrwren> jcastro: cool microscope link
<jrwren> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2012/04/you-kids-today-i-dont-even/  snap-l you see this?
<jrwren> rick_h_: what if they pay you tripple, would you do rhel then?
<jrwren> the thing that scares me about rhel shops is not the rhel, its that they are running rhel because they have to  to get oracle support :(
<rick_h_> jrwren: no idea. I guess it'd depend if they worked out building their own python/etc environments
<rick_h_> rhel python dev scares me
<snap-l> Also, it's bring your spawn to work day today.
<jrwren> virtualenv I'm sure :)
<rick_h_> mine is here...banging on the floor with his hammer :/
<snap-l> Which means my already shot attention span is completely decimated. :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but still py 2.4? 2.5?
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, I posted a link to that.
<jrwren> rick_h_: good point, a lot of rhel shops are running OLD ass linux versions.
<rick_h_> snap-l: go with it, did the kids bring in snacks?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh, never thought of it from the taking candy aspect.
<rick_h_> jrwren: exactly, and if that's the base, the rest of the stack doesn't usually get 'better'
<rick_h_> snap-l: oh yea, that's the day we did the typiing speed competition
<snap-l> rick_h_ <- always with the great ideas.
<rick_h_> get involved, day goes better and you'll actually have fun vs getting work done
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't mind kids. I love kids
<rick_h_> use them as excuses to blow off steam for a day :)
<snap-l> Also, ubuntu.com uses Drupal?
<snap-l> (*sigh*)
<jrwren> now that you mention it, i was supporting an app that was running in a RHEL VPS. It had its own compiled python in /usr/local :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, that's what my old job starting doing. building their own python
<rick_h_> but then you get into other libs you need, c-extension bits, etc
<rick_h_> it can get messy trying to keep an old system up to date
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> i've not had to do it recently
<jrwren> maintaining solaris/hpux/aix that is pretty much the norm :(
<jrwren> but i've not done that in 8 yrs. YAY!
<shakes808> I talked to John about some Python and he was talking about IPython and BPython for the text editor plugin
<rick_h_> text editor plugin?
<shakes808> i think that is what it was
<rick_h_> I use bpython for my shell, but not sure what plugin bit he means
<shakes808> maybe i just mis interrpreted
<rick_h_> is this in pycharm or something?
<shakes808> he mentioned pycharm and that he didn't know about how Eclipse was with Python. He just uses VIM and mentioned about IPython and BPython
<rick_h_> definitely check out bpython, good stuff
<shakes808> I will
<rick_h_> right, use those in a shell on the side to check out stuff
<shakes808> I will check it out tonight :D
<jrwren> wtf is bpython?
<brousch> forget tonight. do it now!
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> I got work I need to do
<rick_h_> jrwren: alternative to ipython shell
<brousch> if you're not working in python you're doing it wrong!
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> basically :P
<rick_h_> unless you're using erlang for cool crap :)
<jrwren> bullshit.
<jrwren> language choice matters little
<rick_h_> hah, successfully fed the trolls! :)
<jrwren> but i like your passion for your choice.
<snap-l> jrwren: I look forward to your web application written in branfuck
<ColonelPanic001> branfuck. The language that ruins your breakfast.
<rick_h_> http://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201204/two_problems.html
<shakes808> ruins or the start to a beautiful morning ;)
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> i like michael foord's comment
<brousch> karma is a bitch
<brousch> i get to dive into C# next week
<shakes808> C# isn't that bad
<shakes808> I was doing that for a few months not too long ago
<brousch> it is bad because i need to use it to control autocad, so i need the ginat bloat of visual studio running alongside the giant bloat of autocad on my 6 year old sempron computer
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes808> well, in that case
<brousch> not to mention having to use windows ;)
<shakes808> yes that is bad
<snap-l> "Some people when confronted with a desire to use pithy quotes in their presentations think "I know, I'll use something from Star Wars". Now two problems they have."
<shakes808> H AHA
<shakes808> If you can deal with Visual Studios 2008, it isn't as bloated as 2010
<shakes808> It doesn't add as many pointless files when compiling
<brousch> i will use whatever free visual studio microsoft is kind enough to give me
<shakes808> but then it has been awhile since I used it, so never know
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> Visual Studios Express
<shakes808> Not as full featured....
<brousch> i guess i could technically use VB.NET
<shakes808> will still need VS
<brousch> i could try ironpython, but i'm worried about supporting that long-term
<shakes808> you can try http://www.mono-project.com/CSharp_Compiler
<brousch> all of the tutorials and help use visual studio, so i'll stick with that for now
<shakes808> ok
<jrwren> you could also just use vim and command line C# compilers from MSFT
<jrwren> if you REALLY want to avoid VS that badly.
<brousch> i really just want to get this done so i can move on to better things ;)
<brousch> basically we have a really old VB plugin in autocad, but in 64bit win7 it is causing all kinds of slowness because VB is being deprecated in autocad
<brousch> and it has some other half-ass pieces like java that dumps data from foxpro for the VB plugin
<brousch> so i want to rewrite the autocad plugin using .NET and have it pull from postgresql
<shakes808> rick_h_: to step back in time, yesterday. The IDE stuff that I was asking about and the var/www stuff. When talking to John he said that it was a little more difficult to set up Eclipse
<shakes808> I should try to stick with VIM and maybe the BPython and veer away from using and IDE, is this a good assumption to make?
<rick_h_> heh, you're asking the wrong guy here. There's only one valid answer to that.
<shakes808> and in this case it really was a Wednesday
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> and ...
<shakes808> I am guessing no ? lol ;)
<brousch> aptana has some nice features, but vim will be better in the long run
<brousch> vim has a steeper learning curve
<shakes808> Then VIM it is
<rick_h_> shakes808: you can catch up some here: http://lococast.net/archives/category/screencast
<shakes808> Thank you... but.... where is VIM 1? lol
<shakes808> I see it
<shakes808> you are pushing them down
<shakes808> Oh blogs
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> see what happens when your actions are quicker than your reason lol
<rick_h_> ok, this whole google/oracle thing is getting me scared
<greg-g> don't be yet
<rick_h_> I'm starting to look at things where I 'copy' an api and this would be illegal (if they were copyright'd)
<rick_h_> delicious api for bookie, readable api for the text parsing
<rick_h_> we do stuff with amazon aws api copying/implementing
<rick_h_> kind of spooky
<greg-g> yeah, don't worry about that, really
<rick_h_> I'm overreacting to the idea that twitter copyrights their api and status.net can't implement something similar so clients can connect?
<ColonelPanic001> just change all get_* methods to retreive_*
<rick_h_> or just that there's little chance that goes through
<greg-g> these are just the arguments made by a corp trying to restrict usage of their stuff by any means. (C) is a bad fit for an api (the structure of one, the descriptions of the things, maybe, but very thin)
<ColonelPanic001> and all set_* to make_it_so_*
<greg-g> little chance the argument will stick
<greg-g> IANAL, TINLA
<rick_h_> oh I agree that it makes no sense, but I have little faith in a jury of my non-tech peers :)
<greg-g> luckily, the judge is deciding this point
<greg-g> not the jury
<rick_h_> ah, k
<tjagoda> I wonder why Ubuntu still pushes 32bit as the default download
<tjagoda> screw your 32 bits
<tjagoda> I want 54
<tjagoda> and even 64
<greg-g> yeah, he thought it was too technical, both technology and (C)-law wise for a jury to do it well (which, is a sad sign for (C) law, really)
<brousch> wtf is up with dl.google.com today?
<rick_h_> yea, but it sure is
<ColonelPanic001> is the judge any better?
<ColonelPanic001> I havne't been following it much
<rick_h_> the people that decide such very technical things is a bit scary
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: re copyright law, hopefully. They at least know what scense a faire means
<ColonelPanic001> and I don't even know that
<greg-g> (C) concept
<ColonelPanic001> I assumed.
<ColonelPanic001> Mister "I anal", in here with this foriegn words
<rick_h_> hah
<tjagoda> his fancy foreign speak
<rick_h_> 'you sure sound like one of them foreiner laaaaaaaywery people, get a rope'
<greg-g> like starting a noir film with a rainy night with a guy walking down a street with only one street lamp and he's wearing a trench coat and hat... not protected by (C) since thats exactly what noir is, it's how you do it
<snap-l> rick_h_: Just rest assured that if Larry Ellison gets his way, we'll all have a very good reason to recycle our keyboards
<ColonelPanic001> I hereby copyrite the QWERTY layout.
<snap-l> because programming won't be fun anymore.
<rick_h_> I've got a better idea "larry Ellison was beat senseless tonight outside his home with what is believed to be a Model-m or replicant keyboard."
<ColonelPanic001> Everyone must now all use a unique layout
<ColonelPanic001> replicants?
<rick_h_> "They sure built those things well didn't they"
<tjagoda> Yes
 * ColonelPanic001 calls Han Solo
<tjagoda> Model-M keyboards so evolved they reproduce themselves
<tjagoda> epic
<snap-l> 403291461126605635584000000 combos. I think it's do-able.
<tjagoda> System76 has day 1 support for 12.04
<tjagoda> usually you have to wait a month for them to update their driver tool
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: perfect. Your keyboard layout can double as an IP address, and solve that issue, too
<tjagoda> I'll have to go home and take OpenSUSE off the laptop now
<rick_h_> tjagoda: yea, I'm happy that they've got the update right in step
<rick_h_> I'm getting darned tempted to get a system76 desktop for an upcoming machine
<snap-l> rick_h_: But what about your nipples?
<rick_h_> for the desktop
<tjagoda> If my desktop wasn't still upgradeable I would have a system76 everything
<brousch> system76 lacks nipples?
<rick_h_> I don't see myself ever getting a non-thinkpad laptpo
<rick_h_> brousch: pretty much, they're crazy like that
<snap-l> Yeah, System76 can't show nipples
<brousch> fail
<snap-l> because they're patented.
<brousch> dell has them
<snap-l> Dell pays to show nipples.
<rick_h_> even the HP/Dell nipples fail with lack of middle button
<rick_h_> they license them
<tjagoda> Rick_H wants this bad boy: https://www.system76.com/desktops/model/leox3
<brousch> lack of middle button is one thing keeping me off unity
<rick_h_> tjagoda: heh, was looking one level down
<snap-l> brousch: Lack of a middle button should keep you off of X Windows
<tjagoda> https://www.system76.com/desktops/model/wilp8
<snap-l> not just Unity.
<tjagoda> ?
<tjagoda> The one with teh sexy top-mount USB ports?
<brousch> i don't need it normally
<rick_h_> tjagoda: I think so
<rick_h_> we'll see though, if ivy bridge hits laptops this summer I might just keep on the laptop only train
<snap-l> rick_h_: I thought you would build your own
<rick_h_> snap-l: desktop?
<snap-l> yeah
<rick_h_> I have, but honestly I don't have time these days and supporting system76 seems like a good plan
<snap-l> God, that plexiglass window would keep me off the leopard extreme
<rick_h_> meh, under a desk they all look the same
<rick_h_> I just want many big cpus and much much ram
<snap-l> rick_h_: Like a loud nightlight.
<tjagoda> I'm going to go to snap-l's Ubuntu panel
<tjagoda> and sit in the front
<tjagoda> for trolling purposes
<snap-l> tjagoda: Please do. It'll save me from hitting someone else.
<snap-l> ^accidentally
<snap-l> I'd be a little leery of the Wildebeast Performance System 76 machine
<tjagoda> Epic
<snap-l> Looks like it has a funky power supply
<snap-l> https://c12278716.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/wilddog-6fe5466b286efcb.png
<tjagoda> Define funky
<snap-l> non-standard
<snap-l> built into the case
<snap-l> requiring a special order to replace
<tjagoda> hm
<snap-l> We, rather the wild dog performance
<snap-l> dumb code-names
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I think that's why I went up a level
<rick_h_> that one seemed pretty normal as I'd be dropping in my own HD, video card, etc
<snap-l> Why is it I have less of a problem knowing what parts go into my laptop, but when it comes to a desktop, I start getting picky.
<tjagoda> Because you're old
 * tjagoda nods
 * tjagoda also ducks
<snap-l> https://www.system76.com/desktops/model/leox3
<brousch> crotchety
<snap-l> Those memory sticks just scream "we're going to fail"
<tjagoda> Okay
<snap-l> The liquid cooling screams "we're going to leak"
<rick_h_> you do have bad luck with memory snap-l
<tjagoda> wtf?
<tjagoda> I've had factory sealed liquid cooling for 6 years
<snap-l> That video card screams "not brand name"
<tjagoda> trasnported in my car sideways and upside down
<snap-l> rick_h_: Do I? :)
<tjagoda> through CPU replacements
<tjagoda> 0 leaks
<brousch> tjagoda: because you're young
<snap-l> Had problems with Crucial memory, but I think it was because of some timing issues with the mobo and the memory.
<rick_h_> yea, all the more reason to get a box assembled and shipped
<rick_h_> fire it up, burn in before you ship it to me, if it fails one phone #
<tjagoda> trufax
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, and frankly for a laptop they could use "Happy Happy Fum MEMRY" and I wouldn't care
<snap-l> but put it in a desktop, and I freak
<rick_h_> as long as it runs
<rick_h_> but that's back to trusting thinkpad
<snap-l> Or maybe it's the lack of control, and the hope that it works.
<tjagoda> I want to see thinkpad somehow betray rick_h
<snap-l> I don't open my laptop unless it breaks
<rick_h_> heh, I follow the CEO on G+ and have interviewed him. I'm not above spamming if my crap comes back as crap
<tjagoda> just so I can view the rage
<snap-l> I open my desktop to clean it.
<snap-l> so I see the components at least monthly.
<tjagoda> I wish my system76 laptop would die
<snap-l> tjagoda: Give it to me
<tjagoda> then I could have an excuse to buy an even more expensive system76
<tjagoda> =(
<snap-l> I'll make sure it's properly disposed of
<snap-l> right next to the smouldering corpse of RIM. ;)
<snap-l> (cheap shot, yes, I know)
<rick_h_> nixternal: dude, who the #$#@ are blue systems?
<snap-l> KDe support group
<snap-l> Oh fuck me.
<brousch> BLUE SYSTEMS ARE GOD
<rick_h_> so like who are they, how do they exist, how do they make money, how would a fan give them money?
<snap-l> Brought up Google plus, and front and center: "You might like: System 76"
<rick_h_> http://blue-systems.com/ tells me jack @#$#@$@#
<greg-g> they make money via horrible web design, that's how
<brousch> rick_h_: linux action show covered it a little bit
<rick_h_> I mean, it's great they're supporting stuff, but *how* are they doing it I want to know
<snap-l> brousch: You still listen / watch that show?
<rick_h_> I keep seeing people go work there, but that website is all the info about them I ever see
<tjagoda> I also watch the Linux Action Show
<brousch> i like them better than linux outlaws
<rick_h_> yea, I thought they all lost their mics...or was that hoped they did...I can't recall ;)
<tjagoda> They would need to loose more than mics, as they stream in HD video..
<brousch> i like their cheesy broadcasting antics
<tjagoda> I enjoy Bryan's cheesy antics
<nixternal> rick_h_: i have no idea who blue systems are nor do i know how they operate or get money
<nixternal> there isn't much out there about them either
<rick_h_> nixternal: ok, your blog post made it seem like you might know more
<nixternal> i just know how successful they have made mint
<rick_h_> I didn't realize they were involved with mint
<nixternal> just the kde version of it
<brousch> isn't it just mint kde?
<nixternal> yup
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha. See I didn't know there was a mint kde lol
<nixternal> mint & mint kde are probably 2 of the most solid distros out there. it is insane how well they are created and how well they run
<nixternal> out of the box experience is bar none the best of any linux distro with mint
<brousch> i want to try netrunner now
<rick_h_> man, how many levels of distro do you want?
<rick_h_> debian->ubuntu->kubuntu->netrunner?
<nixternal> right now i am trying to figure out how a package i am working on can create a unity launcher icon or whatever it is called automatically.
<rick_h_> nixternal: don't you justneed a .desktop file?
<nixternal> where the hell does it go?
<rick_h_> or you mean to get it placed on the panel automatically
<nixternal> yes, place it in the panel automagically
<rick_h_> lamo https://github.com/kennethreitz/requests/pull/566
<nixternal> i was going to rip on ubuntu & unity for making this so difficult, but kubuntu & kde isn't any easier
<nixternal> and I am doing this w/o a /home/ directory because it is all configured and built in a chroot
<rick_h_> yea, not sure.
<brousch> don't you throw it in with the rest of the .desktop files to get it in the menu, then let the user add it where they want to?
<nixternal> #ubuntu-unity must be enjoying release day. they are all probably at a bar right now
<rick_h_> heh, probably
<rick_h_> where's DBO when you need him?
<nixternal> and i haven't found a damn thing via googling, and there could be a good chance it is due to the fact that i don't know the unity terminology and what is what. i just want to put an icon in that bar on the left during a package install.
<rick_h_> he must know everything about it ;)
<brousch> nixternal: during or after?
<nixternal> i played with unity the other day. i think it is well done, but the fact i can't move the bar from the left to the right is nuts. you can download an app or compiz crap and move it to the bottom. my multi-monitor setup makes unity awful because of that damn bar
<nixternal> brousch: either will work, as long as it is done automagically
<nixternal> the reason i use linux is because i can do what i want and i am not locked into a certain way of working like windows makes you do, but unity is copying that philosophy i feel. great you want to limit the screw ups and bug reports, but damn, don't force me to change my workflow
<brousch> i am in love with kde
<nixternal> i could care less anymore what i use, as long as my workflow remains the same
<nixternal> i am a ctrl+~ and alt+f2 whore
<nixternal> ctrl+~ for yakuake
<nixternal> i don't need a stinkin' menu
<brousch> alt-f2 is  nice
<brousch> i put a big sexy system monitor on my desktop yesterday
<shakes808> coming in late in the conversation, but why not just build one yourself? Didn't price components but wouldn't it be the same thing?
<nixternal> i had ubuntu w/ unity setup damn near perfectly. instead of yakuake had terminator, which is almost as good as yakuake. alt+f2 in unity is almost nice, but the fact I type something in and then have to arrow or tab my way to what i want is a bit crazy (executable wise that is)
<brousch> so big and garish it must be kde
<nixternal> alt+f2 -> type in terminal -> have fun w/o having to go to your mouse
<Blazeix> i use dmenu for that, it's quite snappy
<Blazeix> i think rick_h_ uses/used gmrun
<rick_h_> gmrun!!!
<nixternal> isnt' that alt+o or p, can't remember. i used it in dwm/awesome/wmii and stuff
<nixternal> yeah, rick_h_ uses awesome iirc
<rick_h_> shakes808: it's the time spent pulling together locations/prices on parts, debugging assembly, etc
<rick_h_> nixternal: yea, still on awesome
<rick_h_> gets the job done baby!
<nixternal> get off that crap and go with dwm already
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I thought I tried dwm, isn't that even more old school?
<nixternal> i seriously enjoy dwm and even monster
<nixternal> they are all the same, dwm is c and not some haskell or whatever crap
<nixternal> you build your config in to the source code which is nice
<shakes808> I guess there is some differences with OS then? I have made Win machines and doesn't take too long.
<nixternal> talk about fast, though i doubt you would ever notice any speed increases/decreases in dwm/awesome/wmii/xmonad and such. they are all fast already
<rick_h_> yea, exactly
<rick_h_> that's the thing, once it's working there's so little motiviation to change because wtf it works
<rick_h_> now if it breaks...I'll be jumping over and trying xmonad again
<rick_h_> but got better things to do at this point
<brousch> shakes808: you do not know the level of obsession rick_h_ has for any seemingly trivial project/purchase
<nixternal> created a package and use quilt to create and manage my patches for dwm. then use git to store everything which is nice
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> shakes808: oh no, os isn't the issue. install ubuntu off usb stick is a 20min deal and that's only because 10min is spent thinking of a hostname
<shakes808> well, you need to make sure that you get the best deal and powerful hardware :D I spend some time figuring out what I want to put together as well
<rick_h_> after that one scp and make install and done :)
<nixternal> brousch: i have to agree on that. rick_h_ does obsess like that. he was trying to do something not to long ago, can't remember off hand. i think it was with jenkins
<rick_h_> well mostly
<rick_h_> tested baby! http://build.bmark.us/
<nixternal> though jenkins really isn't trivial
<rick_h_> nixternal: try out heroku tornado app http://readable.bmark.us/
<nixternal> gotta love that java!
<rick_h_> ugh, I do hate java, but not going to install build-not
<rick_h_> and travis hates my c-extension required python packages :/
<rick_h_> and it won't do stuff like pep8/pylint linting
<shakes808> rick_h_: what is the link you sent?
<rick_h_> shakes808: which one?
<shakes808> lol build.bmark.us
<rick_h_> the first is my home jenkins server running tests and such for my stuff on github
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie
<rick_h_> https://bmark.us/ is my bookmark app
<rick_h_> readable is the service I need to get integrating into bmark.us
<shakes808> *over head and nods*  .... okay
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> shakes808: pm me your email and I'll invite you to bmark.us
<nixternal> damn, i just realized my mouse-overs don't work on my jenkins setup. shows you how non-obsessive i am. didn't realize it until looking at rick_h_'s
<rick_h_> nixternal: you still @ ubuntu.com?
<nixternal> use gmail.com
<rick_h_> ok, invites sent, sign up and tinker around
<nixternal> my @ubuntu.com stuff is unreadable at this point. i haven't done an inbox zero on it in probably 2 years. i will just do a "Mark all as read" on it from time-to-time
<rick_h_> heh, gotcha
<brousch> this article seems to imply that blue systems will offer commercial support for kubuntu http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/04/kubuntu-they-have-invested-millions-in-it/
<brousch> oooh, jcastro made it into zdnet http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/ubuntu-1204-arrives-and-its-great/10836
<jcastro> i did?
<jcastro> oh cool
<jcastro> dang, he stripped out my user code from the URL
<jcastro> I miss out on a badge!
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> I think my desktop is due for a re-install because I didn't move to 11.10
<snap-l> bah
<rick_h_> install all the bits!
<snap-l> Not doing it the weekend before Penguicon.
<rick_h_> do it do it do it
<snap-l> Er, night rather.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Shooooooosh
<snap-l> I am completely removing my music drive, though
<brousch> you need to do it today!
<snap-l> Putting it in a separate house
<snap-l> so Ubuntu can't touch it
 * nixternal converts to the annoying assholes who keep posting the same crap over and over in an irc channel just to get help
<nixternal> next step, ALL CAPS!
<nixternal> wonder what kind of results i would get on askubuntu
<nixternal> i had someone answer one of my questions with the wrong stuff & it was marked with a green checkmark. though that was a long time ago
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/kubuntu-1204-sysmonitor-hawt.png
<snap-l> nixternal: I HAS A PROBLEM WITH MY MOUSEKEYBOARD CAN NE1 HALP?
<snap-l> nixternal: I HAS A PROBLEM WITH MY MOUSEKEYBOARD CAN NE1 HALP?
<snap-l> H4LLO?
<nixternal> i haven't gone there yet, but i am close
<snap-l> NE1HERE!?!
<nixternal> brousch: is that the system monitor installed with default kde or is that off of kde-look
<brousch> default, though i tweaked the default kubuntu theme
<snap-l> HOWU GET THAT?
<nixternal> if i could have sex with my new laptop i would
<brousch> i prefer gray to blue
<snap-l> MAKE MAI KDE R4W3K
<brousch> i love the network graph as i torrent all the isos
<nixternal> i never see my desktop, so I don't use a single plasma widget
<brousch> i just switch to an empty workspace
<jrwren> rick_h_: does twitter really claim (c) over their API? because IIRC that is not copyrightable. That is how projects like WINE are allowed to clone win32 api.
<nixternal> heh, i don't use plasma widgets, activities, the menu, workspaces, and such. sometimes i wonder why i still use kde
<rick_h_> jrwren: right, but if this oracle/google case comes out that api's ARE copyrightable then what's to prevent twitter from doing it
<brousch> no workspaces?
<rick_h_> jrwren: so that's why I say it's scary
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> all i really use are: yakuake, chrome, thunderbird, kopete, and polly
<brousch> barbaric. might as well use windows
<nixternal> and out of all of those, only 2 are kde
<nixternal> oh, and i use the printer applet that has been broken since we created it 5 years ago
<nixternal> for 3 years now the same bug has existed, but nobody but me can confirm it because i have spaces in the samba share name of my printer
<snap-l> nixternal: broken printer FTW
<nixternal> then again, i use my printer probably 5 times a year
<snap-l> so that's 25x you've noticed it being broken and haven't fixed it
<snap-l> I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY
<nixternal> and for the fun of it, i connect to various people's wifi networks and use their printers. it would be safe to say, there are probably 10 printers right now that have a Kubuntu Flyer sitting there waiting for them to read it today :)
<snap-l> nixternal: I'd be righteously mad if I wasn't laughing right now
<nixternal> snap-l: yeah, i should really look into fixing it, but the issue is with the freedesktop.org stuff, and dealing with them is like trying to shover razer blades up your nose
<jrwren> rick_h_: i'm pretty sure that API (C) has been in court and precident was that it is not (c)able. dates back to BSD reimpl of unix stuff IIRC. Would have to be something compelling to overturn that precedent.
<snap-l> Just for grins, why do you have your printer shared over Samba?
<snap-l> jrwren: See Oracle
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, that's what greg-g is saying..don't worry about it. But it is scary to kind of think the damange that this case *could* have
<rick_h_> at worst case it takes a while to clean up the mess
<jrwren> i see.
<jrwren> now i'll probably lose sleep over it :(
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> The big problem is it's one of those dippy things that people might think can be copyrighted
<greg-g> dude, I'm totally copyrighting that idea
<snap-l> But if you abstracted it and said something like an electrical outlet can be copyrighted, they'd think you were insane
<snap-l> greg-g: You'll need to sign my NDA
<greg-g> actually, I've spoke with some who think "well, if you made something you can prevent anyone from doing anything with it, so of course, it can be copyrighted, patented, trademarked, and locked up beyond belief"
<snap-l> Yeah, those folks drive me insane
<greg-g> sorry, you fail at society. go back to kindergarten
<snap-l> Usually they're the same peope who think Amway works
<greg-g> lol
<snap-l> There are a handful of people who got rich off of Amway. They own Grand Rapids.
<brousch> amways does work
<snap-l> and most of West Michigan
<brousch> see
<greg-g> define "work"
<nixternal> went to askubuntu with my issue seeing as irc isn't working for an answer :/
<snap-l> greg-g: The people at the top of the pyramid
<greg-g> snap-l: zactly
<nixternal> snap-l: amway added to my grandparents fortune back in the day, just south of grand rapids
<snap-l> nixternal: IRC is useless for questions on release week
<greg-g> snap-l: but we don't call it a pyramid, it is Multi-Level Marketing
<snap-l> nixternal: Awesome. Did they get in early?
<brousch> rick devos just started a new $15,000,000 startup seed fund today
<brousch> at least they do good things with the money
<nixternal> snap-l: iirc they were doing it in the 70s, definitely early 80s
<snap-l> brousch: Never said they didn't. Just find a pattern between the intellectual property folks and those who like get-rich-quick schemes.
<nixternal> when we cleaned out their house after they passed, we found so much amway shit from way back in the day. everything must have come in metal tins back then
<nixternal> damn, askubuntu can be addicting.
 * nixternal closes it quickly
<nixternal> http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/ubuntu1204.png?tag=siu-container;attachment_10839  <- is that an ubuntu wallpaper? i really like it
<greg-g> nixternal: heh, don't turn into jcastro on AskUbuntu
<jcastro> I will be up all night
<jcastro> again
<jcastro> like I was last night
<greg-g> haha
<snap-l> Downloaded 1,209 times
<greg-g> ok, go help the man out
<snap-l> http://archive.org/details/OpenMetalcastEpisode45CasuConsulto
<nixternal> jcastro: your east coast s3 mirror is giving me access denied errors
<rick_h_> ok, I didn't want a drobo but this is kind of sweet http://goo.gl/8j7xX
<nixternal> i wanted to try it :/  thank god for Fermi Lab & Argonne. stupid fast mirrors
<greg-g> yeah, Argonne ftw
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's pretty interesting.
<greg-g> I was updating at 1.2 meg a second at work (the top I usually get from anywhere)
<brousch> i had decent results from wayne state
<jcastro> nixternal: you need to turn off pipelining in apt
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/a/125252/235
<jcastro> then it should max out your connection
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> you are an askubuntu whore to come up with an answer that damn fast
<jrwren> DO turn into jcastro on askubuntu. good answers benefits us all
<nixternal> use your whoreness to get an answer for my unity question on there :)
<brousch> jcastro _is_ askubuntu
<nixternal> ^^ i agree, his damn avatar is on every question I have come across. even kde ones
<nixternal> how you haven't burned out on that one yet is beyond me. you burned out on much less back in 2006 when you went bat shit crazy on the planet
<brousch> i think they moved him to florida to plug his brain directly into the askubuntu servers
<jcastro> it's mostly fixing grammar and spelling
<nixternal> which, i recommend everyone read. you need to have a little archive.org love thrown in with some 'whiprush' googling :p
<jcastro> I didn't go "bat shit"
<jcastro> I just quit
<nixternal> oh you went bat shit on your post
<jcastro> I didn't sell out and buy a mac like some people *cough*
<nixternal> who bought a mac?
 * jrwren raises hand
<nixternal> specialkevin is the only mac sellout i know
<jrwren> i wanted to dev for my iphone!
<nixternal> hahahaha
<nixternal> and now jrwren :D
<jrwren> but i sold out and ran windows 8 yrs prior to that.
<nixternal> jrwren: you could have done that in virtualbox
<jrwren> pretty much right when I met jcastro i quit doing linux on desktop
<jrwren> nixternal: do what in vbox? vbox didn't exist 8 yrs ago, and no, you can't do ios dev in vbox.
<snap-l> jcastro has that effect on people
<nixternal> get jcastro drunk and then side with spot from fedora/red hat. now that was some classic shit right there
<jrwren> not to mention: I hate vbox and oracle a little more than i hate VM at all. i run bare metal.
<jrwren> who is spot from fedora/rh?
<snap-l> jrwren: VBox is the one thing Oracle hasn't completely screwed up
<nixternal> you talk about passion, i swear he almost cried
<nixternal> tom callaway
<nixternal> ^^spot
<brousch> snap-l: (yet)
<nixternal> he is their engineering manager
<snap-l> brousch: I rue the day they do
<snap-l> KVM is a dog on my hardware.
<jrwren> at least their bash has /dev/tcp support.
<nixternal> snap-l: nice on that drobo. i knew that was bound to happen with amazon when i was at cleversafe. i built that same exact machine in 3 different versions. sata, sass, and ssd. our sass box was a hit, ssd not so at the time, still to expensive
<nixternal> and we used insanely cheap hardware too
<rick_h_> nixternal: yea, I put a lot of stuff into s3 myself, but I would be tempted to look at hte cost if I could backup parts of my nas to s3
<rick_h_> make it nice and simple
<jcastro> drobos suck though
<rick_h_> oh hell, maybe my nas does support it http://www.synology.com/us/products/features/backup_server.php
 * rick_h_ needs to go home and check it out now
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, definitely not a drobo fan, but <3 the s3 bit. Get that offsite backup on right off your NAS and skip crap like carbonite
<jcastro> yea that is def hot action
<greg-g> rick_h_: still having speed issues with yours?
<rick_h_> greg-g: well it's slow for mass backups. But for doing hourly rsync I don't notice
<rick_h_> so once I got the initial copies over it does its job well
<jrwren> if it can't max out gigabit, its slow.
<rick_h_> atom cpu == rsync fail
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, 5MB/s maxed cpu
<nixternal> rick_h_: which synology product do you have?
<rick_h_> but now it's very quiet, very power effecient
<rick_h_> nixternal: the ds212j
<greg-g> I like those qualities (quiet and efficient)
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, exactly
<jrwren> i keep my things in a closet far from where I sit, so quiet is nice. power efficient would be nice, but I can afford the $2/mo operating cost.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but it was more the cost of upgrading to a higher end device + more bays + more disk
<nixternal> rick_h_: yeah, i was looking at that one or the 411 slim
<rick_h_> really a decent priced deice for getting NAS functionality. Reminds me need to setup my wife's laptop so we can back her up and get her on 12.04
<rick_h_> nixternal: yea, the cpu is very limited and I'm using rsync for my backups to it, max's out at 5MB/s
<rick_h_> setup is a bit strange, but nothing a linux use can't get past
<rick_h_> it comes ootb without firmware
<nixternal> i like what my buddy did. he grabbed these small systems and set one up with tahoe. pretty damn sweet & fast
<rick_h_> tahoe?
<nixternal> he bought them at tiger direct for like $75 each and then grabbed drives for them
<nixternal> tahoelafs, distributed file system
<rick_h_> ah ok
<rick_h_> it's nice for that warm/fuzzy feeling of safe backups going constantly
<nixternal> you wouldn't even realize what the machines are when you look at them, because they look exactly like a wireless router
<rick_h_> hah
<nixternal> he has like 4TB of space, and if one fails, his data is still golden
<nixternal> ok, he is no longer using tahoe, he has switched to openstack object storage
<rick_h_> ah nice
<nixternal> damn, making me want to buy a few small rigs to do the same thing
<brousch> hm, it took 2 years but i finally "lost" all 5 of my 1GB usb drives
<rick_h_> doh, time to order more!
<brousch> and by lost i mean did not get them back when people used them to install ubuntu at meetings
<rick_h_> you know what would rock, a 64gb esata thumbdrive
<rick_h_> guess it would need power hmmm
<snap-l> It's called SSD. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: right, but without a case, small thumbdrive size
<rick_h_> but that's the idea right, ssd in a thumbdrive
<shakes808_> Later all
<rick_h_> sweet, my synology does have the s3 backup, I forsee an increase in my s3 bill next month
<brousch> i love kubuntu. that is all
<brousch> i can download a dozen torrents while buring a cd while copying tons of crap to usb and have no slowness in my other programs
<nixternal> rick_h_: what do you average on your s3 bill? i haven't committed yet to setting up my amazon stuff. how much do you typically store/use it?
<rick_h_> nixternal: so it says I've got 32GB of stuff in there for 4.00
<rick_h_> nixternal: that's last month's stuff, I do bmark.us db dumps and exports twice a day to s3
<rick_h_> as well as lococast episodes, some other backup stuff, my purchased books, screenshots, etc
<rick_h_> nixternal: so $3 more in transfer fees there of 27GB of transfer out
<nixternal> damn, just $4/mo for 32gb of stuff?
<rick_h_> nixternal: yea, for the storage, and $3 for the outbound transfer, free to put it in
<snap-l> just CC all of your data and put it on archive.org. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> freebits4lyfeyo
<rick_h_> $0.125 per GB - first 1 TB / month of storage used
<rick_h_> so if I backed up my whole backup drive, 900GB of it to s3 it'd be $112/mo :/
<rick_h_> ok, so we'll definitely scale back from the whole drive
<nixternal> lol
<greg-g> snap-l++
<nixternal> snap-l: good idea, let me CC all of my tax returns & social security number while I am at it :p
<nixternal> shouldn't be hard to at least figure out the first 3 numbers of my social. born in michigan in 1974
<greg-g> nixternal: your SSN isn't protected by (C) in the first place.
<greg-g> neither are your tax returns
<nixternal> interesting, my first 3 numbers in my social aren't michigan, i always thought they were
<nixternal> another interesting thing is illinois numbers are lower than michigan numbers. michigan is further east than illinois, therefor they should have lower numbers. numbers are the lowest in the northeast, and increase as you move westward
<nixternal> DAMNIT! i removed libreoffice & gnome-games from my custom iso, and added new packages. somehow my ISO is 740MB :/
<nixternal> oh, 711MB, still to big
<theflakeman> so, i have kind of a noob question here
<theflakeman> i'm dual-booting win7 and natty
<theflakeman> i want to wipe natty and do a clean install of precise
<theflakeman> do i need to change anything in my grub, or anything?
<theflakeman> Oh, also: win7 and ubuntu are on separate drives
<theflakeman> well, backin up my files now. we'll see what happens, i suppose
<theflakeman> later
<snap-l> Well, we can't yell that theflakeman didn't wait.
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok, it's time to get a new radio
<rick_h_> bah, the logitech remote app doesn't run on ICS and my nexus :(
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh that sucks. :(
<snap-l> rick_h_: There's another one, though. One sech.
<snap-l> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.bluegaspode.squeezeplayer&feature=related_apps#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEwOSwiZGUuYmx1ZWdhc3BvZGUuc3F1ZWV6ZXBsYXllciJd
<snap-l> rick_h_: ^^
<rick_h_> snap-l: cool, yea looks like they did push an update that makes it work, works sucky, but does run
<rick_h_> and the wife is pre-ICS so going to get it and just hope they update the app or use an alternate you lik mention
<snap-l> Yeah, the logitech software was kinda crappy on the iPhone as well
<snap-l> I used iPeng on the iPhone
<rick_h_> so thanks for the coupon
<snap-l> yw. :)
<snap-l> I knew it would come in handy.
<snap-l> Are you running software players now?
<rick_h_> no
<rick_h_> I just want the box to work, right now trying to stream the draft and it won't connect to the stream :/
<snap-l> Wait, what are you using as a client?
<rick_h_> I'm buying a box, no client. I want it to be the radio
<rick_h_> I'm using my grace to connect to the espn radio stream
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> You can pre-flight the Squeezebox software
<snap-l> use squeezeslave as a software client
<rick_h_> yea, all good. I'll tinker with it at some point
<snap-l> lmk if you need help
<rick_h_> will do, not springing for the extra shipping so we'll see in a couple of weeks
 * snap-l waits for rick_h_ to pick up a transporter. :)
<rick_h_> transporter?
<snap-l> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/speakers-audio/wireless-music-systems/devices/transporter-se
<snap-l> aka death by stereo
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> Erica catches you buying that, you'll be sleeping with Jordan.
<rick_h_> heh, yea I think I'll stay away from that
<snap-l> The touch is nice, though
<snap-l> Also if you can find the classic on eBay for cheap, it's nice.
<rick_h_> the touch doesn't seem to have much for a speaker
<snap-l> The touch is a component
<snap-l> needs an amplifier / speakers
<rick_h_> yea, that's ok. Just want something I can pull pandora in for the boy, some espn/local radio while doing the dishes
<snap-l> Trust me, it's an addition
<rick_h_> otherwise I just use my phone or my laptop
<snap-l> addiction
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> that's ok, I've got enough of those
<nixternal> damn, that logitech is a lot of money
<rick_h_> the transporter?
<rick_h_> yea, that's crazy
<nixternal> my samsung blueray does all that
<rick_h_> yea, this is upstairs where it's the only device
<rick_h_> we don't have tv/computers/etc where we play with the boy
<snap-l> nixternal: The transporter is for people who measure their listening experience with a meter
<nixternal> i bet that would be the only way you could tell a difference
<nixternal> i use ampache and every network enabled device in my house can stream from it
<snap-l> Yeah, the nice part about the Squeezebox is you can control each of the clients
<snap-l> and sync them
<nixternal> i was gonna brign up the squeezebox. my neighbor hates his
<snap-l> nixternal: Why?
<nixternal> i guess latency/lag issues
<snap-l> wtf?
<snap-l> Sounds like his network is a POS.
<nixternal> i have no idea, i just no it will stop playing
<nixternal> very well could be, but he has gig net all through the house. i know, i put it in there :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-27
<nixternal> we used like 2 huge rolls of cat-6 cabling, he has like 4 cisco/whatever wireless-n boxes. if i am out back with my laptop, i will actually use his internet because i get a better connection with his than i do mine wirelessly :)
<nixternal> my mom has the bose wave radio thing. you talk about sweet
<nixternal> i don't know what all it does, but i know it sounds really good
<rick_h_> snap-l: we meeting up for dinner tomorrow?
<snap-l> WE can try
<rick_h_> snap-l: thinking of just heading down after work and finding some food down there before my talk
<rick_h_> I should look at where this actually is :/
<rick_h_> oh jeeze, that's way down there
<rick_h_> ooh, pf changs!
<snap-l> Grrr.... phone is in perrysburg
<rick_h_> doh
<snap-l> still has estimated date of tomorrow, though
<snap-l> go little phone, go
<rick_h_> you think it can you think it can
<snap-l> Don't be like rick_h_'s phones and get caught up in customs
<snap-l> There's a fucking fly in here.
<Revolutionary> Is anyone active right now?
<brousch> ug, rough morning
<rick_h_> ouch
<brousch> the boy broke his glasses, so he is all distraught. then he threw a fit and stomped on my wife's foot with his shoes, so he's more distraught
<brousch> release party went well last night. 14 people there when there are typically 6 at that meeting
<brousch> a lot less ubuntu hate this time around
<rick_h_> that's cool
<rick_h_> good to hear
<brousch> perhaps
<brousch> but there was only 1 unity user out of the 15 people
<rick_h_> ouch
<brousch> right
<brousch> although a few others said their wives were using it
<brousch> so apparently unity is the pinterest of window managers
<shakes808> Good morning
<shakes808> what release party?
<brousch> shakes808: west MI
<rick_h_> brousch: is a west sider, so they have their parties separately from us
<brousch> east siders are to rowdy for us
<rick_h_> hah
<shakes808> HA
<shakes808> Should take you to Harpos for some good times :)
<brousch> is that a biker bar?
<rick_h_> here you go jrwren http://goo.gl/fWcjW
<brousch> i upgrade my wifi when my internet connection becomes faster than the wifi
<rick_h_> meh, what about those network backups you're of course doing to make sure you're data is safe?
<shakes808> http://www.harposconcerttheatre.com/
<snap-l> g'morning
<shakes808> morning
<snap-l> brousch: Harpos is a metal bar on the east side
<rick_h_> gotta love prepping a talk, last night heading to bed and realized I've got a whole topic to cover I forgot
<snap-l> Though they tend lately to have more hair metal
<brousch> rick_h_: wired
<brousch> actually i don't have an onsite backup at home right now. dropbox and crashplan
<snap-l> Whew, Spike The Tomb is actually CC-licensed.
<snap-l> Their singer set up the Bandcamp site, and didn't tell the rest of the band
<brousch> heh
<shakes808> http://www.stubhub.com/rammstein-tickets/rammstein-auburn-hills-palace-of-auburn-hills-5-6-2012-2795154/
<shakes808> Rammstein is coming :(
<shakes808> :D Anyone want to donate some monies to me to go to the show?!!!!
<shakes808> I am going to assume that the silence is a negative on that lol
<snap-l> Already spent way too much on Rush tickets
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> Understandable
<shakes808> :D
<shakes808> Geddy is an amazing bassist
<shakes808> Neil is an amazing Drummer
<shakes808> Acceptable ;)
<shakes808> in this chat window, why do peoples colors change and why are their colors?
<rick_h_> so not sure on why they change. The only coloring I tend to get is when someone mentions your name it lights up
<rick_h_> so if I say shakes808 then it should 'highlight'
<shakes808> yeah, your color went from blood red to bright red
<shakes808> and brousch and snap-l are green
<rick_h_> well they're nice, I'm evil
<rick_h_> sounds about right to me
<shakes808> HA HA
<brousch> shakes808: what client are you using?
<shakes808> what? Heaven doesn't want you and Hell is afraid you will take over?
<brousch> in pidgin it asigns a random color to a person, but when my name is mentioned it makes that name bold and gold
<shakes808> brousch: through the ubuntu teams site
<shakes808> How do I get this in Pidgin?
<brousch> Accounts -> Manage Accounts -> Add -> Protocol: IRC -> Username: shakes808
<shakes808> ok
<shakes808> server is  irc.freenode.net
<brousch> Then when that's done, Buddies -> Add Chat -> Account: shakes808@irc.ubuntu.com -> Channel: #ubuntu-us-mi -> Group: Channels -> Autojoin: yes
<shakes808> is this correct?
<brousch> yeah, irc.freenode.net or irc.ubuntu.com
<brousch> they're on the freenode network so either one works
<shakes808> I don't have Group: Channels
<shakes808> only groups are the ones that I set up in Pidgin
<brousch> Make it
<shakes808> alright
<shakes808> was just asking if I should
<brousch> name it whatever you want
<shakes8081> Hello?
<brousch> yo
<snap-l> It's like you're a new person
<shakes8081> :D I got it up
<shakes8081> Thank you
<shakes8081> :D
<brousch> interesting hostname
<shakes8081> lol
<shakes8081> Auto did it since I was logged in both
<shakes8081> lol
<shakes8081> test
<shakes8081> nope
<shakes8081> lol
<brousch> icles
<shakes8081> going to reconnect brb
<shakes8081> :D
<shakes8081> still 1?
<shakes8081> huh
<snap-l> "On FedEx vehicle for delivery"
<snap-l> A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<rick_h_> snap-l: woot! now will fedex arrive before you have to leave for PC?
<brousch> shakes8081 you need to logout of the first account
<brousch> the one through the teams page
<rick_h_> plus you know it's going to need a solid 8hr charge before you can use it
<shakes8081> That window is gone
<brousch> it must take a while to boot you out then
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yes yes, I know. DOn't remind me.
<shakes8081> oh well :D maybe when I log in again Monday, it will change. If not I will reset it up without being in the chat
<shakes8081> lol
<snap-l> rick_h_: Stop harshing my buzz. :)
<shakes8081> snap-l: what did you get?
<snap-l> (even though I do it to you whenever you get ap phone)
<snap-l> shakes8081: Samsung Galaxy S II via Ting.com
<snap-l> Ordered it at the beginning of the month, and have waited for the backorder to be fulfilled.
<snap-l> http://ting.com/twig <- Used that for a discount
<shakes8081> ting is a phone service?
<snap-l> It's a reseller of Sprint
<shakes8081> like verizon / att / sprint / metro PCS
<shakes8081> ....
<snap-l> idea is to pay for what you use in tiers
<shakes8081> but sprint sucks
<shakes8081> lol
<shakes8081> I have sprint
<snap-l> shakes8081: Well, we'll see
<shakes8081> their service sucks
<snap-l> I use the phone mostly at home / work anyway, so what I'm really looking for is a modicum of mobile bandwidth
<snap-l> and it's month-to-month, so if it really sucks, I figure out something else.
<jrwren> rick_h_: thanks for the gigabit wifi link :)  I'll beleive when I see it, for now, I love my gigabit wired :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I worry that it's only a single device with talk of shaping wifi signals and using multiple bands to get it
<rick_h_> so next to impossible to get in real use, but cool none the less
<brousch> shakes8081: if you disconnect and try it now your name will be correct. i saw your other account disconnect
<jrwren> rick_h_: what does your tweet mean that you are allowed to review my codes?
<rick_h_> jrwren: I passed code review mentorship in LP
<rick_h_> so my code reviews don't have to be dbl checked/reviewed by my mentor any more and I've got my own code review day
<jrwren> sounds like you do the process a lot different than we do.
<rick_h_> probably, we have a day where you're OCR (on call reviewer) and any merge proposals have to be reviewed before they can land in devel and to buildbot
<shakes8081> test
<rick_h_> pong
<shakes8081> huh
<rick_h_> shakes8081:
<shakes8081> still has the one
<rick_h_> https://dev.launchpad.net/ReviewerSchedule jrwren
<shakes8081> I will delete and remake it brb
<shakes8081> Test
<shakes8081> :(
<rick_h_> test result
<shakes8081> result = :(
<rick_h_> what isn't working?
<jrwren> rick_h_: that is an interesting process.
<jrwren> but doesn't it suck the day you are an OCR?
<rick_h_> jrwren: it can, I did nothing but reviedws yesterday
<jrwren> rick_h_: :(
<shakes808> Test
<shakes808> YAY
<rick_h_> jrwren: love that rails twitter post
<jrwren> rick_h_: i loled :)
<brousch> sheat. momogr has asked me to fill in for a panelist at their next event http://www.meetup.com/MoMoGR/events/57263152/
<rick_h_> a web meets mobile event sponsored by RIM?
<brousch> they want me give my responsive design talk from grwebdev to a room full of non-programmers
<rick_h_> umm, interesting
<rick_h_> hah, nice
<brousch> but none of the organizers saw my talk
<brousch> it is 75% doing view source on html and css
<brousch> extolling the cleanness of semantic.gs compared to typical css grid frameworks
<brousch> so it comes down to can i BS about responsive web design for 10 minutes without embarrasing myself?
<brousch> having made only a single responsive website
<brousch> also, can i successfully stifle snickers every time they mention RIM or the playbook?
<brousch> i failed at that when giving announcements at grwebdev
<jrwren> wtf is responsive design?
<ColonelPanic001> make page smaller, it adjusts to mobile-friendly design
<ColonelPanic001> wayne.edu. Resize broswer to make it really narrow.
<brousch> wayne.edu does not respond well ;)
<ColonelPanic001> not working?
<ColonelPanic001> I don't remember the size limit, looking
<brousch> under 930px it does nothing
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/DrItharat/index.html
<brousch> that was what i used in my talk. looks good from 1080p to 320x480
<ColonelPanic001> 930px? I mean, make it about phone-width.
<ColonelPanic001> heh, yeah, it's not *as* responsive as that
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: but at 930px the content gets cut off
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, it's only when it gets very narrow that it does anything
<ColonelPanic001> I didn't make it. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> (it'd be worse if I did)
<ColonelPanic001> just one I knew offhand that was "responsive"
<brousch> so it's broken from 500 - 930px
<ColonelPanic001> email web@wayne.edu and inform them :P
<brousch> fix it :P
<ColonelPanic001> AIN'T MY SITE OMG
<brousch> i blame you for referring me to it
<ColonelPanic001> >:-|
<brousch> thanks, i needed a laugh this morning
<ColonelPanic001> >:-|
<ColonelPanic001> "Your site is pathetic, laughing at it cheered me up"
<ColonelPanic001> "You may go now"
<brousch> not the site, the conversation
<ColonelPanic001> "Your conversation is pathetic, laughing at it cheered me up"
<brousch> crap. momogr says they want a technical talk. i think i'm in
<ColonelPanic001> ...momogr?
<ColonelPanic001> idk wat that iz
<brousch> the group asking me to speak/panelize
<brousch> mobile monday grand rapids. you have one in detroit
<ColonelPanic001> ah, thought it was some text-speak for "manager" of some kind
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, wearing the shirt from OneDevDay right now,actually, heh
<brousch> and ann arbor
<brousch> http://mobilemondaydetroit.org/
<brousch> much more business people than i usually deal with
<jrwren> so responsive design = media queries.
<brousch> targets IT managers more than developers
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren: yeah, basically
<ColonelPanic001> just "if it's small use this smallshit.css file"
<brousch> and feature detection (modernizr)
<ColonelPanic001> I have a problem. I'm kind of sick. Sneezing a bit, nose is runny, and a little cough from that. Nothing severe, but it's there.
<ColonelPanic001> and Penguicon is this weekend.
<brousch> jrwren: basically it is making your web site work on any size screen on any (smart) device without resorting to a different version of the site
<brousch> your typical 960px static grid site doesn't scale up or down well
<ColonelPanic001> except for wayne.edu
<brousch> so you can make a large format version, a laptop version, a ipad version, a iphone version, an android version ....
<brousch> or you can use responsive design techniques to have one flexible site adjust for all sizes
<rick_h_> jrwren: it's using css media queries basically
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: the answer is to go to the store, drink down two containers of nyquil, and get ready to come to my talk tomorrow
<rick_h_> jrwren: https://bmark.us/recent and then shrink your browser around 700px wide
 * rick_h_ is a bit ashamed, need to fix that up still
<ColonelPanic001> I have permission from rick_h_ to go to Pcon despite ilnnes
<ColonelPanic001> I'm there
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: only after you've drugged yourself thoroughly today/tonight
<ColonelPanic001> I'm already on dayquil ;)
<ColonelPanic001> I'm not really that bad
<ColonelPanic001> just sniffly, occasional nose-blowing
<ColonelPanic001> working from home ruined my sense of social mores with that
<ColonelPanic001> because the slightest sniffle, I'd just stay around home, it was no big deal. I mostly was a hermit anyway
<ColonelPanic001> I no longer know what's "normal" for being sick in public
<rick_h_> if you get me sick...there will be trouble. That's the norm
 * ColonelPanic001 hides
<jrwren> rick_h_: yeah, that is what I said :)  "10:16    jrwren| so responsive design = media queries."
<jrwren> spread your illness at penguicon !
<ColonelPanic001> I think I may have convinced a coworker to go, too
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<rick_h_> jrwren: ah sorry, what I get for scrollback skimming
<jrwren> i do that all the time :)  scrollback skimming ftw!
<shakes808> rick_h_ or snap-l: When I talked to John yesterday he mentioned the bpython stuff. In my finding it is supposed to be already with Ubuntu. How do I use/activate it?
<rick_h_> it's not, you need to install it
<rick_h_> have you installed/setup pip yet?
<shakes808> no, what is it?
<rick_h_> a way to install python packages from pypi.python.org
<shakes808> and on the bpython site it said it was included from 9.10 on
<rick_h_> think rubygems, or perl's thing
<rick_h_> apt-cache search bpython
<shakes808> never worked with ruby or perl, but I think i get it
<rick_h_> so yea, there are debian packages for bpython
<rick_h_> guess you can start there by installing it there
<shakes808> Alright, I will when I have my laptop with me
<rick_h_> http://guide.python-distribute.org/installation.html
<rick_h_> and
<shakes808> so, sudo apt-cache search bpython
<rick_h_> http://pypi.python.org/pypi
<rick_h_> you can apt-cache search without sudo
<rick_h_> but then you'll need sudo to install
<shakes808> alright
<shakes808> cool
<shakes808> ty
<rick_h_> sudo apt-get install bpython, bpython3 maybe...not sure which one you want to be honest
<shakes808>  is there doc with the diffs?
<rick_h_> apt-cache show bpython
<rick_h_> run that for each package
<shakes808> ok
<shakes808> so search and then show and it will let me know what is there and description for them
<rick_h_> yea, you can see the package details with apt-cache show
<shakes808> cooll
<shakes808> ty
<rick_h_> woot http://travis-ci.org/#!/mitechie/bookie_parser
<brousch> what is that?
<rick_h_> travisci running unit tests for the readable.bmark.us app
<brousch> thank you mr obvious
<rick_h_> ok, well rephrase your question in some way I can tell which part you're unsure of :P
<brousch> too late. i already googled it
<rick_h_> ok, works for me :)
<brousch> Travis CI A hosted continuous integration service for the open source community.
<rick_h_> yep
<rick_h_> been all over the place the last several months
<brousch> jrwren: http://bradfrostweb.com/blog/web/responsive-web-design-missing-the-point/
<snap-l> Yay, phone showed up
<rick_h_> snap-l: awesome, congrats!
<shakes808> snap-l: what phone did  you get?
<jcastro> anyone not doing anything I could use some editing/fixing up help on askubuntu
<jcastro> it's friday now ... SO IT IS ON
<rick_h_> sorry call in 5min and then off to penguicon to prep for my talk
<brousch> I'm too busy creating new, mistake-filled, badly-worded questions to help clean up old ones
<shakes808> have a good weekend all.
<greg-g> jcastro: some days, I wish I could
<jcastro> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3900224
<jcastro> this is awesome
<greg-g> little bobby tables
<ColonelPanic002> i have arrived at penguicon to spread disease and sickness.
<ColonelPanic002> i even came to rick's talk to spread it here, since he gave me permission to go.
<ColonelPanic002> that'll teach him.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-28
<shakes808> good evening all
<jrwren> good evening
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> well party over
<snap-l> howdy
<snap-l> hello via ssh
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> i'm surprised you're awake so early
<snap-l> brousch: WE're on the same floor as the consuite
<snap-l> unfortunately that means we didn't get much sleep last night.
<brousch> shouldn't you be hung over, still nestled deeply into a furry yak's hind end?
<rick_h_> they're party animals!
<brousch> a pewter mug of grog in one hand and a fresh steampunk tattoo on your left testicle
<snap-l> brousch: You're just jealous. :)
<brousch> a bit
<brousch> also have strep throat or something so i'm grumpy
<snap-l> Ugh, sorry to hear that.
<brousch> having fun there?
<brousch> i think at least 2 of my friends are there
<snap-l> well, im here
<snap-l> so thats one
<snap-l> and wolfger is bere
<snap-l> so thats two
<brousch> sorry, 2 west side friends
<rick_h_> poor snap-l doesn't count
<rick_h_> snap-l: so not going to make the noon thing. Too long to leave the dog 11-7pm
<brousch> bah
<brousch> sacrafice the rug
<greg-g> did no one laugh at rick_h_'s awesome "party animal" pun?
<rick_h_> greg-g: no, I fail
<greg-g> I loved it! made me laugh :)
<greg-g> even Carrie liked it (yes, it was that good, I shared)
<brousch> i can totally see greg-g wearing these http://www.etsy.com/shop/wearableplanter
<greg-g> brousch: whoa, the bike one is kind of cool, actually
<brousch> see
<rick_h_> smoser: you out west?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-04-29
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: if you tinker with the bookie_parser make sure you git pull, some refactors for ya
<shakes808> Good evening all
<JonEdney> Hello
<shakes808> what is everyone up to tonight?
<shakes808> How is PC going?
<rick_h_> jcastro: ok, went to the little mug hockey puck soap and the feather blades and I've never had a better shave in my life. <3 Thanks you and jrwren for getting me to try this out
<brousch> smoother than an android's bottom?
<rick_h_> dude, freaking amazing. Never in my life shaved every day for a week
<rick_h_> snap-l: we still on for recordin Tues night? Chris from pyramid is interested in recording an interview so want to ping him if he can do the live show
<brousch> why not shave every day?
<rick_h_> skin irritation issues
<rick_h_> couldn't take it
<brousch> ah
<JonEdney> A couple years ago, I decided I wasn't going to shave until the Lions made the playoffs.
<brousch> beard up. trim and shave once a week
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think so
<brousch> live show?
<rick_h_> no, if I could get access to the recoard google hangouts bit I'd be tempted
<rick_h_> but no go :(
<rick_h_> I'm not popular enough for that button
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> I don't need my mug streaming over the internet in real time. :)
<rick_h_> one day ;)
<rick_h_> we'll have to get you on a cool shaving regiment with the rest of us bwuhahaha
<snap-l> rick_h_: you'll have to get me to stop growing a chin like a 17yo
<snap-l> ok, time for bfast
<snap-l> bbl.
<brousch> rick_h_: will you be star-struck when interviewing mcdonough?
<rick_h_> naw, I've hung out with him in person so I've gotten over it
<rick_h_> but I will make sure my Chris idol doll is in front of me as I speak :P
<rick_h_> brousch: there you go, I told them you'd start getting patches in right away: http://goo.gl/TVsPI
<brousch> heh
<brousch> i'm much more likely to work on the docs
<rick_h_> <3 it, got the umbrella out, the camping table, and out on the deck with the laptop for the first time this year
<snap-l> If anyone had my old tracfone number, it has ceased to be.
<snap-l> completely.
<snap-l> I have destroyed the pnone
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-22
<snap-l> Ugh, computers are no fun
<snap-l> Had all sorts of fun with a NVidia card at my parents place
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<snap-l> Finally decided to say fuck it and get an AMD card
<rick_h_> :/
<snap-l> Rather than figure out which of the 5 different driver variations might be the one to make it not crashy
<rick_h_> and that worked? Everyone is telling me nvidia ftw
<snap-l> I have an AMD card in this machine
<snap-l> orered another one
<snap-l> I'm sure it's great if you have the Geforce uber-fucktard 1e+48 version, but trying to figure out what magic incantation makes the GeForce 7500LE not shit itself is not my idea of an evening well spent.
<Blazeix> i think you have a reasonably modern card, you won't have trouble with nvidia
<snap-l> Yeah, that's just it. This card is not modern by any stretch of the imagination
<Blazeix> "reasonably modern" means less than 5 or 6 years. ish
<snap-l> It's a shit OEM card
<Blazeix> just reassuring rick_h_ that he shouldn't think twice about buying a nice nvidia card :)
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_7_Series#GeForce_7500_LE_.28OEM.29
<rick_h_> hmm, yea the ones from system76 aren't on there at all
<brousch> intel ftw
<snap-l> Intel FTNoperformance
<rick_h_> tiles fine here :P
<rick_h_> but yea, going to get the  GTX 660
<rick_h_> http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_family.html wtf, how many models can one product need?
<rick_h_> I mean, even MS is looking at that list going w..t..f
<rick_h_> I did want an AMD card at one point when I found one that would do triple head
<snap-l> Well, this one is for the desktop series, and this one is for the laptop series,
<snap-l> and this one is for the OEM Inuit PC builders.
<rick_h_> hmm, so if I get a second one I can do 3 displays?
<snap-l> I'm not sure how that works
<rick_h_> gah, a 680?
<rick_h_> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/394157-33-will-support-monitors nvm woot!
<snap-l> Yeah, but will Linux support it?
<rick_h_> up to the nvidia driver I guess. I know awesome can handle it
<rick_h_> http://askubuntu.com/questions/21144/how-do-i-get-three-monitors-working
<rick_h_> that's for 2011
<rick_h_> so hopefully still works in today's world
<rick_h_> here we go, closer http://superuser.com/questions/476012/linux-nvidia-surround-3-monitors
<snap-l> I'm about ready to decapitate something
<brousch> beers are in the fridge
<snap-l> Fucking Banshee is locking up
<snap-l> trying to import disks
<derekv> some chance of new kinesis ergo in 2013 http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36195.msg861000#msg861000
<rick_h_> cool, have cornice hooked up with redis and an api for getting/setting/removing config values.
<rick_h_> not sold on the error'ing methodology but still cool
<derekv> i spent all day looking at mountain bikes online.
<rick_h_> woot!
<rick_h_> anything good?
<rick_h_> ooooh, I like this error a lot better
<Blazeix> rick_h_: nice. so cornice adds rest specification stuff (content-type, verbs, etc) to pyramid?
<derekv> yea I went to order brake replacements/upgrades for my old mtb but became uncertain because the front fork mount is nonstandard
<derekv> then started looking into new ones and fell in love with one ... but its cheap and there's not like anywhere around here i can just ride
<derekv> er ride one
<derekv> also trying to figure out a new video card
<rick_h_> Blazeix yea and csn tie into shpinx for generating api docs and the like.
<Blazeix> cool
<derekv> oh new dr episode
<rick_h_> Blazeix: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/945/ is kind of how it's working/code. Didn't want to push yet as it's a local mess as I just tinkered with cornice POC
<derekv> amazon down
<snap-l> GOod morning
<snap-l> I hate it when I accidentally hit something on my headphones, and suddenly my headphone explode into stereo because of a bad connection
<snap-l> Was blaming something in the audio chain (Squeezebox resamplling or something like that).
<jrwren_> igt tat etitrom static electricitinnthephones to sceand sodetecting change in
<jrwren_> wow. kb wtf.
<rick_h_> lol, time to change the batteries
<jrwren_> i get that sometimes from static electricity in the headphone to source and source detecting a change
<jrwren_> this was direct on laptop kb.
<jrwren_> really strange. MAC
<jrwren_> i hate mac
<brousch> I have several rows from the same table I need to update in my web application. What strategy should I use for uniquely identifying form fields so each row's fields can be distinguished from each other?
<brousch> Add a -uid to the end of each field?
<brousch> That seems ugly and annoying
<rick_h_> how's the form submitted? JS or normal http post?
<brousch> post
<rick_h_> brousch: and it's all one form you submit at once right?
<brousch> yeah
<rick_h_> then yea, you have to adjust the field names to match some index/id
<brousch> Then I have to manually parse it all on the server?
<brousch> Seems so hackish
<rick_h_> yep, welcome to the limitations of http
<rick_h_> if you did it in JS, you could data-id="xx" and parse the fields, json the data, and send a single call with the data nice and objectified
<snap-l> brousch: You shouldn't be updating table data on a page anyway. That's what Excel is for
<brousch> :P
<snap-l> Right tool, right job
<brousch> This is much nastier than I thought it would be
<snap-l> Hm, it's take our offspring to work day on the 25th
<snap-l> Wonder if I could bring my cat to work?
<jjesse> is your cat your offspring?  if so that is weird and then acceptable
<snap-l> jjesse: She's my little fur-baby.
<snap-l> (and no, I can't type that with a straight face)
<jjesse> lol
<snap-l> So, who else is gonna pour a forty for Earth day?
<jjesse> i filled my car up with gas today in support of earth day
<snap-l> I'm gonna turn off the lights and read a book via my Nook.
<snap-l> because i like to miss the point. :)
<greg-g> I haz almost complete standing desk: http://www.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/8672540524/in/photostream
<snap-l> Cool setup, but lose the keyboard. :)
<snap-l> Also, the M310 is my favorite mouse. :)
<snap-l> Cheap, but feels awesome
<greg-g> what's wrong with the keyboard?!
<snap-l> I can't handle those keyboards. They do bad things to my brain
<brousch> OMG I think I've been fighting a bug in Chrome's inspect element tools
<brousch> Pulling my hair out
<brousch> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/101667/snapshot21.png
<brousch> You can see the value in the highlighted input is 2, but in the inspector it says value="1"
<snap-l> I see the problem
<snap-l> You're using KDE
<snap-l> Does weird things to the brain, that KDE.
<snap-l> Also, did that start off life as 1 and then get changed to 2?
<devinheitmueller> rick_h_: Quick question:  what is Bookie using for full text search?
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: whoosh
<devinheitmueller> Ah, cool.  Thanks.
<greg-g> rick_h_: how do you like working with it?
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: work project is elasticsearch.
<greg-g> rick_h_: Chris Webber (the Mediagoblin guy) is looking for a search solution
<rick_h_> greg-g: <3 it. Pure python. Works for scale of around 30k or so web pages.
<devinheitmueller> Given the extremely small dataset I'm dealing with (a few thousand records), Whoosh is probably more than sufficient for me.
<rick_h_> greg-g: but since it's file based it's disk limited, hard to sync and scale out.
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: yea, for small stuff that doesn't need to HA it's awesome and allows for a lot of fine tune'd fulltext tweaking for folks that know what they want
<rick_h_> much nicer than trying to sync diffs in sqlite/mysql/pgsql fulltext
<devinheitmueller> Nice.
<rick_h_> to match whatever db you feel like using with the ORM
<devinheitmueller> I've got a fairly small static dataset, so I don't really care that much how efficient it is.
<greg-g> cool
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: cool, yea then pure python ftw
<devinheitmueller> Basically just trying to build a search engine around a Q/A session:  http://drugfactsweek.drugabuse.gov/chat/2011/index.php
<rick_h_> cool
<brousch> The big guys use solr
<greg-g> we use lucene/solr at Wikimedia
<snap-l> Wow, Vim is amazing
<snap-l> http://vimcasts.org/episodes/supercharged-substitution-with-subvert/
<rick_h_> man, scary I've got a pair fo 3TB drives and that was because I didn't want to spend the $$ for 4TB :/
<rick_h_> time to test the syology upgrade process
<snap-l> rick_h_: I can't fathom having 4TB on a drive
<snap-l> Scared me enough to have 1TB of data in one location.
<snap-l> Of course that also held true for 1GB drives. :)
<greg-g> btrfs raid ftw
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, well it'll be 3TB mirror raid on the NAS
<rick_h_> snap-l: but still. Crazy. I've got backups of laptops long gone I just keep
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> because it's more work to go through and see if there's anything I need to hold onto vs just rsync'ing /home /etc /var each time I do a new install
<snap-l> WHen copying over my parents' machine (heir 340GB drive) I realized there were several copies of the same damn files
<snap-l> and a copy of files from their old 486 machine
<snap-l> And you're right; it's cheaper to just copy the damn stuff forward than to actually go through and prune
<snap-l> WOnder if in the future we'll stop using magnetic media, and just have optical media that is Write Once, Read Many
<snap-l> because the media will be so cheap, and there's no worry of it degrading
<rick_h_> heh, anyone need any 500GB drives? Pulling out 2TB ones to put in the desktop and 3TB going in. 500GB seems so...quaint now
<rick_h_> actually have a desktop I need to make disappear shortly.
<snap-l> rick_h_: What CPU?
<rick_h_> Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU         E8400  @ 3.00GHz
<rick_h_> 8GB ram
<snap-l> Respectable.
<greg-g> definitely no where near not respectable ;)
<snap-l> Well, it's a dual core machine.
<rick_h_> yea, it's a custom built then I put together years ago to be a file server
<rick_h_> and was running my jenkins builds of bookie, been headless, etc
<rick_h_> basically been turned off for a long time since I got tired of sync'ing/etc as my laptop is more powerful
<snap-l> Hm, we need to have it do something useful again
<rick_h_> yea, like fly away and not take up space. :)
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> hmm, formatting 3tb seems like it's giong to take a while
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ya think?
 * rick_h_ wants to start backup!
<jrwren_> this looks sweet: https://github.com/bulletproofnetworks/ript
<jrwren_> rick_h_: can I have your old drives?
<rick_h_> jrwren_: cool
<jrwren_> i cut a SATA cable to fit ESATA based on snap-l conversation last week but I have no working SATA drives with which to test :)
<rick_h_> jrwren_: no, going to take my old 2tb ones and put them in the desktop when I get it
<rick_h_> jrwren_: oh, I've got some spare 500GB sata ones if you need
<jrwren_> i'll take 2 if you got 'em :)
<jrwren_> CHC on Wednesday? :)
<rick_h_> jrwren_: have to get an esata enclosure though
<snap-l> jrwren_: That means you'll need to come into Oakland County
<jrwren_> snap-l: for a pair of 500GB drives, I'll come into Oakland Co :)
<snap-l> Hypocrite. ;)
<jrwren_> rick_h_: part of the test was trying to run drives without an esata enclosure.
<jrwren_> snap-l: you know it ;)
<rick_h_> jrwren_: jrwren_ ah, got it
<snap-l> Speaking of coming into Oakland County, any of you coming to Penguicon?
<jrwren_> uncertain
<snap-l> It's this weekend, in case you were procrastinating. ;)
<rick_h_> jrwren_: ok, so yea. I've got 3 of them, and one 500GB IDE drive
<jrwren_> Steve Andre', Marcus Watts - openbsd. every year. kudos to them for doing it every year.
<jrwren_> rick_h_: they are all 500? I'll take 'em. I can put 'em to use.
<rick_h_> jrwren_: cool. I've got to pull two out of the desktop. They're not plugged in. I didn't bother re-resetting up the raid5 when I did the last ubuntu install on there
<snap-l> Good thing they're not 500MB. You'd be hard pressed to put them to use. :)
<jrwren_> True!
<jrwren_> i remember dropping a lot of coin (for me at the time) on a 500MB drive back in '95
<jrwren_> maybe it was '96
<snap-l> I remember dropping a lot of coin for a 60MB drive and a SCSI enclosure (along with a SCSI interface for my Atari 800XL)
<snap-l> s/60/40/
<jrwren_> holy crap? seriously?
<snap-l> Yep
<jrwren_> i only had cassette tape for my 800XL
<jrwren_> i didn't even know you could get HD for them
<snap-l> Yeah, and they had some strange partitioning system where you could map any of the partitions as a floppy disk
<snap-l> It was a third-party mod
<jrwren_> how was it managed?
<jrwren_> it didn't exactly have a filesystem.
<jrwren_> manual partition management? I guess I could see that.
<snap-l> Yeah, you basically mapped each parition to a drive letter
<snap-l> using some special OS drivers.
<jrwren_> drive letters?
<snap-l> D1, D2, ... D8
<jrwren_> are you thikning of ST instead of 800XL?
<jrwren_> huh, cool.
<snap-l> D8 was usually a RAMDisk
<jrwren_> hahaha, from teh 64KB of RAM ?
<snap-l> Nope, I don't have a ST machine
<rick_h_> still formatting...
<snap-l> It as more useful on the 130XE
<snap-l> since you could only address 64K at a time
<snap-l> They used bank-switching to access the upper 64K, so it made sense to use that as a ram disk
<snap-l> since no programs were likely to use it
<snap-l> jrwren_: I'll have to show you the hardware. It was really cool.
<snap-l> It was the CSS Black Box
<jrwren_> makes sense
<snap-l> http://www.nleaudio.com/css/products/black.htm
<rick_h_> lol, pulled the old HP mini down from the rack.
<snap-l> decommissioned?
<rick_h_> well it was still on
<rick_h_> but yea, it's sitting on top of the NAS and not doing anything. Time for a office re-org
<rick_h_> pulling down my old broadvoice voip box off the rack
<snap-l> End of an era
<rick_h_> so sad to have all this old working computer gear but it's just worthless.
<rick_h_> no one wants an old slow netbook
<rick_h_> my Nexus10 with the BT keyboard is a TON nicer to use than this thing
<snap-l> Yeah, we still have the ASUS netbook
<snap-l> It's sitting on a shelf
<jrwren_> might as well be a 486 ;)
<rick_h_> atom with 1GB of ram
<snap-l> That's the funny thing
<snap-l> I have no problem keeping an Atari machine long past it's prime
<snap-l> but if it's Intel based, I'll recycle that things ass in a heartbeat.
<rick_h_> keeping up an old computer is overhead. It's more maint. to sync up your config/settings. Tracking what's on it. manage the ip addresses/services. Backup data
<snap-l> (That said, I'm all about getting every last MIP out of the Intel hardware)
<rick_h_> I started to keep the pypi mirror on there thinking it's low power/etc
<rick_h_> but dealing with it being on the internal network and when I'm home/away/offline
<rick_h_> ended up just loading it up locally instead
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> though SSH tunnels are your friend
<rick_h_> format is done, backup time!
 * rick_h_ does some match. 1.2TB at USB2 wheeee
<rick_h_> /match/math
<snap-l> No fun
<rick_h_> it's ok. I realized there's a flaw in my plan. So I ahve to wait for another disk to arrive wed before I can complete this
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Does it support USB3?
<rick_h_> "hmm, don't trust the synology to grow the FS after swapping the disks so need to copy to usb. Only disks I have big enough are the new 3TB ones
<rick_h_> so stuck one in the external carrier, backup
<rick_h_> then take the second and swap one disk in the NAS
<rick_h_> but then I need to pull out the 'backup' and replace the second one in the NAS leaving me backup-less
<rick_h_> no, no usb3. I got the cheap low end model sans esata and usb3
<rick_h_> but it's lower powered atom and such so swapped out for the 99% use case
<snap-l> Wish Unheilig albums were available in this country. Apparently only Puppenspeil is the only one
<snap-l> (Think Rammstein with more classical influence, and more "soul")
<rick_h_> hmm, backup state "verifying destination size" for 25min
<jrwren_> what time is CHC on Wednesday? how late do you usually code?
<jrwren_> i have Unheilig discgo
<jrwren_> discog rather.
<snap-l> jrwren_: Best not bring it to CHC. ;)
<snap-l> I might have to roll you for it. :)
<snap-l> CHC starts at 8pm this week
<snap-l> next week it's 7pm
<snap-l> lasts until 10pm
<jrwren_> i don't have it on CD, only mp3
<snap-l> Ah
<snap-l> I have the Puppenspeil CD
<snap-l> Was trying to go legit on some old MP3s that my friend sent me
<snap-l> but that's nigh impossible
<jrwren_> yay. i can make both events... the drivig part will suck, but I'll do both, because, why not :)
<snap-l> jrwren_: Awesome!
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> jcastro: smoser long CHC wed 7pm 3hr edition
<snap-l> next week
<smoser> rick_h_, thanks for the invite. i dont think i will make it, but i do appreciate the reminder.
<snap-l> I want to like Duplicity, but sheesh it's a bit of a pig when it comes to backups
<rick_h_> lol "1d 5hr remaining"
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> snap-l: obnam!
<snap-l> Evening
<rick_h_> evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-23
<snap-l> I will never get tired of bands contacting me for playing their music on the podcast
<rick_h_> snap-l: awesome
<snap-l> :)
<rick_h_> hopefuly in a good way vs a 'wft man?!' way
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Yeah, it's all good
<snap-l> Usually it's surprise that someone noticed.
<snap-l> Which makes two of us
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> hmmm, 37hr backup. This is more fun than I thought
<snap-l> Also the next time I decide to take up Packt on reviewing one of their books, please smack me
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Looking at this INstant Pygame book
<rick_h_> snap-l: which jewel did you get?
<rick_h_> ah
<snap-l> fucking trainwreck
<snap-l> Starts off by having people install Python 2.6
<snap-l> and doesn't sow them how to install Pygame
<rick_h_> :(
<snap-l> and punts off installing Numpy to another book
<snap-l> which seems to be used for generating a random tuple of numbers for a RGBA value
<snap-l> Oh, brillant
<snap-l> They use numpy to generate a list of list of integers
<snap-l> 4x3 list
<snap-l> and then have people use color[0]
<snap-l> Initializing arrays: We will define some arrays to hold the coordinates of the
<snap-l> positions, where we would like to put the image during the animation. Since the
<snap-l> object will be moved, there are four logical sections of the path: right, down, left,
<snap-l> and up. Each of these sections will have 40 equidistant steps. We will initialize
<snap-l> all the values in the sections to 0:
<snap-l> steps = numpy.linspace(20, 360, 40).astype(int)
<snap-l> right = numpy.zeros((2, len(steps)))
<snap-l> down = numpy.zeros((2, len(steps)))
<snap-l> left = numpy.zeros((2, len(steps)))
<snap-l> up = numpy.zeros((2, len(steps)))
<snap-l> So later on the author then concatenates these into a positional array of x,y coordinates.
<snap-l> Talk about the long way.
<snap-l> Using Matplotlib with Pygame (Simple)
<snap-l> That's a fucking topic in here
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> We need to have a MPEG movie for this demo. Once you have a movie you can convert it to be
<snap-l> used in a Pygame game with the following command:
<snap-l> ffmpeg -i <infile> -vcodec mpeg1video -acodec libmp3lame -intra <outfile.
<snap-l> mpg>
<snap-l> I'm on page 28. There's 55 pages.
<snap-l> They mentioned blitting in passing
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/TqOFgW2b2ezYnU55Lkpt/
<snap-l> Calling uncle with the publisher.
<rick_h_> hmm, so last night the backup estimate (after running for 5hrs) was 1d 10hrs. Then I went to bed and it's at 1d 6hrs. I thought I got more sleep than that lol
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> what are you using to back up your files?
<rick_h_> built in 'backup' feature on the NAS
<rick_h_> but yea, usb2 fml
<rick_h_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoxiK7K28PU is kind of badass
<rick_h_> interesting, my last 4 amazon orders have all gone out Prestige, no ups
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I've noticed that
<snap-l> Well, not your orders inparticular
<snap-l> There have been times when my order was handed off to the post office while coming UPS
<snap-l> I think it's all about who can make the last mile more efficiently.
<rick_h_> yea, I don't usually get the USPS
<rick_h_> but normally if I order late prestige gets it so that they can meet the 2nd day
<rick_h_> more guys in a van than big brown truck
<rick_h_> but normally it's once in a while. strange that all things the last week
<jrwren_> my interent download speeds are faster than usb1 now :)
<snap-l> Yea, that's sick isn't it?
<jrwren_> i love it.
<jrwren_> maybe in anotehr 10 yrs it will be faster than usb2 :)
<snap-l> Yeah, and it'll cost one iMac a month.
<jrwren_> nah.
<jrwren_> did I share my insane download speeds since comcast doubled the area speeds?
<snap-l> I don't think so
<jrwren_> 6.44MByte/s
<snap-l> Down or up?
<jrwren_> down
<jrwren_> i've not tested up.
<jrwren_> i don't have a good way :(  turns out writes to s3 are notoriously slow.
<jrwren_> i'll have to spin up and ec2 instance and try writing to that.
<jrwren_> but still, 60+Mbit, I'm happy with that.
<snap-l> testmy.net is pretty good
<snap-l> Still, that's awesome. I'm paying extra to get the 30/ 3 package from WOW!
<greg-g> huh, I just hit an "advancedhosters.com" ubuntu mirror on my work laptop apt-get update
<greg-g> maybe I'm too old internet domain wise, but that looks non-legit to me
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, not sure on that
<snap-l> Is it a mirror perhaps?
<greg-g> it's an official mirror
<greg-g> this is in my sources.list:
<greg-g> deb mirror://mirrors.ubuntu.com/mirrors.txt
<brousch> greg-g: I thought you ditched Ubuntu
<greg-g> brousch: on my personal machine, this work one came with Ubuntu pre-installed (it is the POS dell xps) and I was already sprinting so much my first week (it was an in town week for all of my coworkers, so no down time what so ever).
 * greg-g is lazy, too
<brousch> What do the wikipedia servers run?
<greg-g> Ubuntu Precise currently, but there's rumbling of moving to Debian.
<brousch> nice
<snap-l> http://www.atarimania.com/documents-atari-atari-400-800-xl-xe--books_1_8.html
<brousch> I love Ubuntu server
<rick_h_> greg-g: has it given them grief on the server? Or just for other reasons?
<greg-g> rick_h_: I'm not sure, honestly. I haven't heard anything along the grief lines.
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool, just curious
<greg-g> we have a couple DDs on staff, but also an OpenStack contributor, so... /me shrugs
<snap-l> It's all greg-g's doing
<snap-l> fess up
 * greg-g hangs head
<rick_h_> greg-g: so I've met two others with that laptop and like it. Though one mentions the keyboard is mushy and can get double key-presses which is a red falg
<rick_h_> flag
<greg-g> yeah, definitely experience that
<snap-l> Isn't that supposed to be their gaming laptop?
<rick_h_> :/ wonder if you got a dud?
<greg-g> and the keyboard layout is just damn annoying to someone coming from a thinkpad
<snap-l> double press == red flag
<rick_h_> snap-l: no, they just did a new alienware thing with ubuntu that's diff
<snap-l> Ah, Ok
<rick_h_> man, I'm so trying to want to love newsblur...but it's making it so hard!
<brousch> What's the pro blem?
<rick_h_> the ux is so bulky and extra content. Doesn't flow. Have to check items 2 or three times before it marks read
<brousch> darnit
<greg-g> the lack of keybindings is annoying
<rick_h_> so j/k works out ok
<rick_h_> went nuts setting "show only unread" on every single damn thing until I happened upon the global setting
<rick_h_> should default to the first item open for reading
<rick_h_> the === Sun === footer needs to go. It's taller than many feeds
<rick_h_> and all of the header 'buttons' need to go.
<greg-g> rick_h_: I mean scrolling, mostly.
<rick_h_> greg-g: space doesn't work? /me goes to see if there's something new to try
<jrwren> what are DDs?
<rick_h_> Debian Developers
<jcastro> bittorrent sync is pretty awesome guys
<jcastro> just installed it on all my stuff
<greg-g> ?
<ColonelPanic001> I've thought of trying that
<ColonelPanic001> just saw it a few minutes ago
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: http://labs.bittorrent.com/experiments/sync/technology.html
<ColonelPanic001> like dropbox, but serverless, and over Bittorrent
<greg-g> huh, neat
<ColonelPanic001> yeah. Only downside is you'd need at least one node up anytime you wanted to sync
<ColonelPanic001> something to sync from
<ColonelPanic001> but, aside from that, looks neat
<greg-g> yeah, which most of us have ;)
<ColonelPanic001> hi flippy
<flipsidecreation> hi
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: bittorrent.com doesn't do FLOSS, right?
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: yeah, generally. I don't anymore (used to, but now my work machine is a laptop), but even still, kind of nice
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: not sure, tbh
<ColonelPanic001> I very rarely torrent, not really into that stuff
<greg-g> I can't find a source/repo link, so I'm guessing now
<ColonelPanic001> I use bt to get linux distros, that's it
<greg-g> just meant the company, but yeah
<ColonelPanic001> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5595806
<ColonelPanic001> some discussion
<ColonelPanic001> fwiw
<greg-g> I don't open those links
<greg-g> :P
<ColonelPanic001> those ones?
<ColonelPanic001> "I don't like discussion"
<snap-l> I use BT for Humble Bundle Games to help save them bandwidth
<snap-l> I wish Ubuntu used it for their private repos.
<ColonelPanic001> that too, actually.
<ColonelPanic001> to download linux installers, and humble bundle
<ColonelPanic001> I wish they'd do another ebook humblebundle, that was awesome
<snap-l> Yeah, it was
<snap-l> also, pearson education is a bunch of fuckwits
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: hackernews, specifically
<greg-g> snap-l: is this channel logged anymore?
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: ah. Why's that? I'm not a hardcore fan or anything, just a site I flip through here and there.
<snap-l> 30% discount, but they took it off of the price of the paper edition
<ColonelPanic001> oh, he's asking about logging. This must be good.
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: full of people I live near that I wish I didn't :)
<snap-l> greg-g: I think it is
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<snap-l> but it's a matter of public record, as far as I'm concerned
<greg-g> snap-l: that was a pre-emptive question ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: Oh? :)
<ColonelPanic001> I was hoping he just had really good dirty gossip on HN, and didn't want it logged. >_>
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Let's just say Pearson makes me appreciate clueful publishers like O'Reilly all the more
<snap-l> and Apress to a certain extent
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> We rule. East side drools http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2013/04/forbes_list_grand_rapids_ranks.html
<flipsidecreation> Detroit is number one for a few things....
<flipsidecreation> Good job Grand Rapids :)
<ColonelPanic001> >:-|
<brousch> Want to have a job and raise a happy family while drinking craft beers?
<ColonelPanic001> yes, meh, yes
<ColonelPanic001> my family being happy ins't a priority
<brousch> We don't want your kind!
<ColonelPanic001> no kids, and the wife married me, so I assume she's accepted a life of misery
<snap-l> Maybe that's what Detroit needs - more churches on corners than 7-11s
<snap-l> Or is that a Holland-thing?
<brousch> GR has too many churches too
 * ColonelPanic001 gets Norwegian black metal bands on the phone
 * jrwren curses distutils and setuptool
<brousch> jrwren: Don't curse them! You'll make them worse!
<jrwren> unpossible.
<jrwren> is this answer wrong?  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6344076/differences-between-distribute-distutils-setuptools-and-distutils2/14753678#14753678
<jrwren> i thought i fell under the "unless your needs are very basic and I only need distutils"
<jrwren> but AFAICT there is no way to specify requirements in distutils
<brousch> I've only used pip and setuptools (via modern-package-template)
<jrwren> pip is irrelevant
<jrwren> i'm trying to write a setup.py
<jrwren> trying to use only distutils
<snap-l> jrwren: Any reason you're not considering modern-package-template?
<jrwren> cuz its not moderna
<snap-l> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/modern-package-template
<jrwren> setuptools is dead
<jrwren> oh, it uses Distrubte *sigh*
<jrwren> didn't want to take the dep.
<jrwren> I'll look at it
<snap-l> yeah, I've packaged several things with it
<greg-g> "I'm not drunk, I'm just drinking. I'm not stoned, I'm just thinkin'"
<greg-g> oh SomaFM boot liquor radio, how I love you
<brousch> No python3 version
<snap-l> it makes things nice
<snap-l> brousch: who uses Python3 ?
<snap-l> Sheesh, what are you? Perl6?
<jrwren> right, sticking with distutils was getting me py3
<jrwren> python3 is awesome
<jrwren> as is pypy
<brousch> Only the awesome devs use Python3
<snap-l> Distribute supports Python3
<brousch> modern-package-template does not
<brousch> It uses paste and all that crap
<jrwren> it uses setuptools, at least the version I still have instaelled.
<brousch> "modern-package-template is aÂ PasteScript templateÂ to create an initial layout for your Python projects"
<brousch> last release apr 2010
<snap-l> brousch: If only rick_h_ were here to set you straight. :)
<brousch> ha
<brousch> I asked him at his pyohio talk about python3 and modern-package-template and he told me to go fix it myself
<snap-l> brousch: And did you?
<snap-l> Noooooo
<brousch> Even the pyramid guy ran away from python3 paste
<brousch> time to go home
<snap-l> Same here. At least, time to go to the board meeting.
<greg-g> so bourgeois
<greg-g> excuse me while I get aboard my private jet to attend our board meeting
<jrwren> python3 then import setuptools and it works. now I"m more confused than ever.
<jrwren> I thought setuptools didn't come with py3
<jrwren> *sigh*
<rick_h_> jrwren: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2013-March/020126.html
<rick_h_> yea paste was replaced
<rick_h_> setuptools can be installed, not included ootb.
<rick_h_> jrwren: but python packaging sucks for anything but basic stuff really
<rick_h_> I think pastescript was replaced with whatever pcreate is
<rick_h_> unfortunately most of the Paste world and unit tests didn't go hand in hand
<rick_h_> jrwren:  http://guide.python-distribute.org/ is also probably the most maintained doc these days
<greg-g> wow, caprisun is... crap
<rick_h_> greg-g: lol
<rick_h_> not had that since I was 10 or so
<greg-g> me neither, but it was in the break room fridge
<greg-g> and I needed something sugary, should've had just plain OJ
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> yea, I remember it probably more fondly than I'd find it today
<greg-g> it says "no artificial colors, flavors, or preservatives"
<jrwren> where I come from, this kind of thing is called shit
<jrwren> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/a389700fbc74/Lib/distutils/versionpredicate.py
<rick_h_> just full of suck?
<greg-g> yep, can't see, the individual things don't have the ingredients
<jrwren> anyway, setuptools is in python3 on both mac and ubuntu, so I guess I'm ok with using it
<rick_h_> jrwren: what's shit now?
<rick_h_> jrwren: the version string checker stuff?
<jrwren> yes, the version string checker stuff
<jrwren> its pretty bad
<flipsidecreation> hi
<jrwren> hi flipsidecreation how are you?
<flipsidecreation> good.
<flipsidecreation> I have been looking for a way in Ubuntu to intergrate keepass with firefox for password sync.  I have tried KeeFox and loading keep pass using mono but it did not work all that well.  Any open source alternatives?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-24
<jrwren> snap-l: getting around 9Mbit up.  887KB/s
<snap-l> jrwren: Nice!
<snap-l> Also: Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> rainy morning though. Was nice yesterday. Finally went to the park
<brousch> I got that POST to work
<brousch> I append a uid at the end inside of [], then run through all of the POST data to build models from all of the pieces
<rick_h_> cool
<brousch> Seems barbaric
<brousch> I think it would be easier and more elegant if I stored each change in Javascript instead of a bulk update
<brousch> But that's what the people wanted
<snap-l> Hey, barbarians are quite effective. :)
<jrwren> jcastro: are you interested in carpool to Fun with Fanzoo & CHC Woodward tonight?
<jcastro> jrwren: any night but tonight!
<jcastro> 13.04 is tomorrow, I have like 3 things I have to finish and I'm behind
<jrwren> lame.
<jrwren> but congrats on another release.
<jrwren> next month then!
<rick_h_> CHC LONG tonight!
<rick_h_> oh, reminds me. I need to get that second disk for jrwren
<jrwren> yes, plz bring me any disks you don't want.
<jrwren> for that matter, my work is having an e-waste event tomorrow, so if you have ewaste to be recycled, I can take it if it is not TOO much
 * snap-l gets the unibvac out
<snap-l> That would have been 10x more funny had I spelled it right
<brousch> 10x0 is still 0!
<jrwren> lol. now THAT is funny.
<jrwren> would have been even funnier if you had wrote ten times zero as 0x10 so we could have said, no it isn't zero, it is 16.
<snap-l> http://www.staples.com/Fittings/cat_CL167211
<snap-l> I remember another company doing this "Let's be everything to everyone" tactic.
<snap-l> Comp USA
 * jrwren checks github to see what vim colorscheme rick_h uses
<jrwren> hornet and lucius
<rick_h_> hmm, outdated
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/948/
<rick_h_> is the current block of code around there :)
<jrwren> ty
 * rick_h_ notes to push vim updates sometime
<jrwren> renders as ir_black with a lighter bg for me. is that bout right?
<rick_h_> jrwren: which one?
<jrwren> aldmeris
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, kind of ligher grey and darker theme
<jrwren> i think i'll try torte for a while
<rick_h_> good one
<snap-l> I'm using synic right now
<jrwren> that looks pretty good. screenshot is python example
<jrwren> i might like slightly higher contrast
<snap-l> I like it because it's terminal friendly
<snap-l> tend to run vim in terminal more than gvim
<jrwren> may this monitor is just too low contrast.
<jrwren> or... reloading hte vimrc isn't working correctly
<jrwren> or... the colors used in vimrc are just that different from the python
<rick_h_> jrwren: you need a colorhug :)
<snap-l> MetroPCS is now a part of T-Mobile
<snap-l> all that's left is the paperwork
<jrwren> having a local mirror is just awesome fast. even at only 100mbit
<greg-g> I still don't understand why we don't have local mirrors in the WMF office, I asked and the response I got was "no, we're on a 100mbit connection"
<flipsidecreation> I tested the http://labs.bittorrent.com/experiments/sync.html last night and it seems to work well
<rick_h_> flipsidecreation: cool
<flipsidecreation> very simple to share files with one or many people.
<flipsidecreation> Read only, read write, and temp shares.  It really is a serverless drop box
<flipsidecreation> I don't know that I would completely trust it just yet but as a project it looks very promising
<greg-g> dooods!
<greg-g> I'm "sitting" on one of these: http://store.focaluprightfurniture.com/locus-seat.html
<rick_h_> greg-g: very cool
<greg-g> yeah, it's comfy
<flipsidecreation> greg-g: interesting
<_stink_> uh
<_stink_> does it not hurt your balls?
 * _stink_ turns his head to try to figure it out
<rick_h_> _stink_: he's a bike rider, they're inpervious at this point :P
<_stink_> ohhhh right
<flipsidecreation> I just watched the video and I could see myself falling off
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> nah, no stuff hurting
<rick_h_> _stink_: if anything, it needs a more carbon fiber performance seat on it
<greg-g> its one of those really comfy recumbent style seats
<flipsidecreation> recumbent seats are quite comfy
<jhansonxi> I have a TerraTrike Rover recumbent and its seat is quite comfortable.  I'm thinking of adding something similar to my Hobie kayak.
<brousch> Why would you want to sit on a bike seat all day?
<brousch> You could just jam an apple under your nuts if you like the feeling
<flipsidecreation> jhansonxi: sweet, I have a terratrike as well.
<jhansonxi> I'm planning on making a chain case for mine but haven't had time to work on it.  Chain gets too grimy on gravel roads and trails.
<flipsidecreation> jhansonxi: just get the chain tubes, they are simple and work well for that
<flipsidecreation> jhansonxi: I think the hostel shop sells them
<greg-g> brousch: it's more, how can you not sit all day, but without the fatigue of standing in one spot
<jhansonxi> That's not enough.  I ride in winter and have to oil to chain to keep it from rusting.  It also becomes a dirt magnet.  I've added a rear shield but want to expand it to a fully enclosed case. https://terratrike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1344
<greg-g> jhansonxi: if it is getting too dirty, reduce the amount of oil on your chain.
<greg-g> remember, lubing is a two step process 1) apply lube... (wait) 2) clean off excess lube
<greg-g> too much lube with draw in dirt from the outside into the sensitive parts of the chain
<jhansonxi> The rear tire constantly dumps dirt on it so a fully enclosed case it the best solution.  The only real problem is the need for a tensioner.
<greg-g> ah, well, that's another story ;)
<flipsidecreation> Nice job enclosing the rear wheel
<jhansonxi> It's not enclosed, just a shield between the tire and chain.
<jhansonxi> After I enclose it I'm going to add a lighting system.  I bought a 10Ah auxiliary battery pack (for use with cell phones) and a few LED flashlights.  Just need switches and wire.
<jhansonxi> I'm also thinking about using some pipe and a tarp to make a roof so I can ignore rain.
<flipsidecreation> I have some LED lights on mine http://i.imgur.com/NcMuXir.jpg
<jhansonxi> That's almost ridiculous. :D
<jhansonxi> What model is that?
<flipsidecreation> Tour
<flipsidecreation> This is how I bough it http://i.imgur.com/x10gQ1Z.jpg
<jhansonxi> I bought mine assembled at their store near Grand Rapids.  They wouldn't sell it as a kit and the shipping cost was over $200 but they were within driving distance.
<jhansonxi> I like the Rover because it is compact (and cheap at $1250).  Its square-frame design makes it easy to add a pintle mount for weapons (hostile deer, drivers that don't yield, etc.)
<flipsidecreation> I bought mine used for real cheap then started doing all the custom work to it like the paint https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/460789_3248088916972_1398858549_o.jpg
<flipsidecreation> it was fun to build it
<jhansonxi> I'll be having plenty of fun modding mine.  I just need time to plan everything out and draw it up in DraftSight.
<flipsidecreation> its a fun hobby
<flipsidecreation> I have blue lights on my actionbent recumbent http://i.imgur.com/MEbmGui.jpg
<jhansonxi> Yes, but time-consuming.  I have a Hobie Outback kayak to mod also: http://www.hobiecat.com/mirage/mirage-outback/
<flipsidecreation> jhansonxi: Nice
<jhansonxi> Needs paddlewheels for shallow rivers.  My arms are too worn out from abusing mice for paddling.
<jhansonxi> Got it on sale here (near Pinconning): http://www.franksgreatoutdoors.com/kayaks-2
<jhansonxi> Bought it in November.  Only been out once with it.  Was hard to maneuver but mostly because of the snowsuit (was only 35 deg out)
<jhansonxi> flipsidecreation: Are you going to Penguicon?  We could meet up.
<flipsidecreation> jhansonxi: I wish I was, I already have other plans
<flipsidecreation> PenguinCon is going in my calendar for next year for sure
<jhansonxi> Where are you located?  I'm near Alpena.
<greg-g> haha (re snow suit and kayaking) :)
<greg-g> love it, love hard core Michiganders
<flipsidecreation> Taylor Tucky here
<jhansonxi> greg-g: After spending what I did, I wasn't going to wait until spring to try it.
<greg-g> I wouldn't!
<jhansonxi> flipsidecreation: In Wayne county?
<flipsidecreation> yup
<rick_h_> musical hard drives! yaaaay! which one of the three is the one actually used and mounted to /home? that's the question
<jhansonxi> Any decent trails over there?  The only trails I've been on in the Detroit area is the South Lyon rail trail and the Kensington Park loop.
<rick_h_> and more yay, pulling out any means their mount order changes
<jhansonxi> rick_h: My first computer was SCSI and had one of the first Quantum 7200 RPM drives.  It whined continuously.  I didn't realize that was a problem until it failed.
<snap-l> The only problem I can see with that locus seat is I twist a lot
<greg-g> snap-l: it twists
<snap-l> so getting things out of my file cabinet would be a PITA
<rick_h_> bah, and my only boot disk handy is a server install :(
<snap-l> oh, then disregard
<greg-g> snap-l: only been on it for like 1 hour, but it is growing on me
<snap-l> That's cool
<greg-g> I'll let you know at the end of the day
<snap-l> (said the guy sitting on his balls)
<greg-g> we're all sitting on our balls as much as I am! (pardon to the female members of the channel)
<jrwren> rick_h_: bring me your old musical hard drives :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: I'm trying, but the darned things don't say which has the os on it
<rick_h_> jrwren: and then grub went boom. So now I'm just saying screw it. I'm giong to ditch this desktop anyway so just need a usb boot so I can backup my one 3tb usb drive to another one
<rick_h_> of course my usb boot isn't a boot, but server isntall :(
<snap-l> greg-g: yeah, but I have a big ball that I rest the other balls on
<greg-g> and in the wikimedia-staff channel we're talking about the PEN 15 error, what a day
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Had to look that one up
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> :(
<jhansonxi> rick_h: smartctl will tell you the SN which will be on the drive label
<rick_h_> jhansonxi: ah, yea would have been cool. /me notes
<jhansonxi> Also hdparm -i
<flipsidecreation> jhansonxi: Do you come downstate very often?
<jrwren> i have to admit, I'm getting tired of hard disk failures :(
<jhansonxi> flipsidecreation: Only if a customer wants me to do some electronic prototype assembly.  Mostly I do PCB design over the Internet.
<flipsidecreation> jhansonxi: My parents live in West Branch, I go up there to do some biking from time to time
<flipsidecreation> jhansonxi: Me and the wife are thinking about a trip to ride the trails around Alpena
<jhansonxi> This is the best in the area: http://trailscouncil.org/index.php?page=north-eastern-state-trail
<jhansonxi> I've only been as far a Posen.
<jhansonxi> There was some erosion near the Alpena side but you can detour around it on side roads.
<flipsidecreation> that does look sweet
<jhansonxi> Crushed limestone.  It does get soft near a small lake and there is some channels cut across due to erosion but it's nice.  Just wear a head net around dusk unless you like eating bugs.
<flipsidecreation> In my area I ride from Dearborn to Northville and back http://goo.gl/maps/llei3
<flipsidecreation> nice ride, all paved blacktop
<jhansonxi> Maybe I'll try it the next time I'm down there overnight.  I used to live in Redford and regularly attended the MUG/MDLUG/LugWash meetings.
<flipsidecreation> I used to go to the lugwash meetings, but it has been a while
<jhansonxi> Invariably, when a customer needs me on-site it's the last week of the month when there aren't any LUG meetings.
<jhansonxi> I just received an email from Boyne Mountain resort.  Their golf season starts Friday and their slopes are open for skiing.  That's Michigan weather for you. :P
<greg-g> hah
<flipsidecreation> yup, sleet & rain here now
<jrwren> anyone help me with a dpkg-parsechangelog warning I'd like to fix?
<jrwren> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5599511/
<jrwren> nevermind. I suck
<mathomastech> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500268&IsVirtualParent=1
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-25
<jrwren> not looking forward to this 45min drive :(
<rick_h_> http://schiit.com/
<jjesse> awesome
<jrwren> where is everyone?
<rick_h_> jrwren: back of the shop
<jjesse> taking a nap?
<jrwren> there is a back?
<rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AdeOshineye/posts/eZAuPA2JH5U
<rick_h_> the response http://bigjools.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/error-handling-in-go/
<rick_h_> the original http://blog.labix.org/2013/04/23/exceptional-crashes
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> OMG! the backup finally just stopped
<rick_h_> lol "18152994.43 bytes/sec"
<rick_h_> 1059642061750 bytes received
<rick_h_> doesn't say how long it actually spent in transfer though
<snap-l> That's what the time command is for. :)
<rick_h_> well I should have thought of that a day ago :P
<snap-l> Yeah, hindsight and all
<snap-l> BTW: It's bring your daughters and sons to work today
<rick_h_> snap-l: ooh, fun day
<rick_h_> having a typing contest :)
<snap-l> Apparently there's still a legend 'round these parts about the typing contest. :)
<rick_h_> http://www.wordsperminutetest.com/
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> I was introduced as the rick_h_ replacement
<snap-l> I corrected, and said I was the rick_h_ dilletante. ;)
<rick_h_> lol, you must compete in my stead!
<snap-l> Yeah, not happening. :)
<snap-l> It'd be like watching walker races at the assisted living facility.
<rick_h_> those can be entertaining
<snap-l> Raring Ringtail is released.
<flipsidecreation> loading Raring Ringtail then sudo apt-get remove unity-lens-shopping
<brousch> I can see greg-g on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bJXXckWLc0E#!
<flipsidecreation> brousch: wow
<jrwren_> glad its not bring your daughters and sons to work today here. my daughter is home sick :(
<brousch> jrwren_: Work from home!
<jrwren_> running do release upgrade :)
<jrwren_> brousch: a great idea!
<jrwren_> i don't work from home much though. I'm a lazy mofo and keep work at work and play at home.
<jrwren_> oh sweet, network manager may be going away: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-converged-network-stack
<snap-l> As long as things don't break, I'm OK with whatever they use.
<jrwren_> crap... new tmux with protocol version change. AFAICT i can't upgrade the the tmux package to raring without entirely reseting tmux :(
<snap-l> What did they change?
<snap-l> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/iterm2-discuss/B2ZXG-_WZE8
<snap-l> Ah
<jrwren_> wow, smosers name is all over the change logs for new raring packages. isc-dhcp and kmod.  well done smoser
<smoser> :)
<snap-l> Saucy Salamander?
<snap-l> http://www.saucysalamander.com/
<flipsidecreation> I was hoping for Sensual Sasquatch
<greg-g> oh yeah, today's the official bring your kids to work, oops
<flipsidecreation> I am skipping that holiday as well too
<ColonelPanic001> is it?
<ColonelPanic001> crap
<ColonelPanic001> that explains the short person around here
<ColonelPanic001> seriously I heard some kid over on the other side of the cubefarm
<ColonelPanic001> why would I bring my kid here? to watch me type?
<ColonelPanic001> good thing they don't exist
<Blazeix> snap-l: fyi, my coworker used your ting referral code
<snap-l> Blazeix: Awesomesauce. Thank you!
<flipsidecreation> My kids come to work with me from time to time, not much work gets done
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm having headphone appreciation day.
<ColonelPanic001> I'm still tossing around the idea of Ting. Not sure if I'm in contract now or not,a ctually, should check that
<ColonelPanic001> but then I think I might not be able to use the phones at work. That's a bit of an issue
<snap-l> Not that I mind, but I have a rare bout of focus that I'd like to hold onto
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Simple test: How does Sprint service work in your area?
<greg-g> brousch: waaaaay too tall for me, that stuff scares me
<ColonelPanic001> never been on sprint, beats me
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: ask around.
<ColonelPanic001> UnFixed: didn't you change to Ting? How is it in MidTown?
<snap-l> I know that requires that "hyoo-man con tact" but... ;)
<ColonelPanic001> I guess you wouldn't know for Downriver
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: nonsense, that's what SMS is for :)
<snap-l> heh
<UnFixed> Sprints pretty good in midtown
<UnFixed> ive always got a decent signal
<UnFixed> HOWEVEr
<UnFixed> i there isnt any LTE for sprint in detroit yet
<snap-l> Or 4G
<UnFixed> so 3G
<UnFixed> tmobile's HSPA+ was faster
<UnFixed> but honestly, i dont notice it much.
<snap-l> Yeah, just saw an announcement that several spots in Indiana were getting LTE
<snap-l> I'm sure the cornfields will appreciate the enhanced data
<snap-l> Bay City, MI
<snap-l> http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/01/16/sprint-announces-28-new-lte-markets-going-live-in-the-coming-months/
<UnFixed> yeah
<snap-l> Saginaw, MI
<UnFixed> ting mentioned it on their blog also
<snap-l> Last I saw there weren't any MI locations, so this is an improvement
<snap-l> Should I ever leave the house and decide to head to Bay City or Saginaw
<ColonelPanic001> I don't really care about 4g, etc. I use wireless networks around here anyway
<ColonelPanic001> and all I do as far as data on the phone is reddit anyway
<ColonelPanic001> reddit/email
<snap-l> Yeah you should be OK
<UnFixed> yeah
<snap-l> Only gotcha I had with Sprint is my neighborhood is the dead zone for every carrier
<UnFixed> and working on campus, wifi is everywhere
<snap-l> TMo, AT&T
<snap-l> I think Verizon as well
<UnFixed> my only gripe is some parts of my house get a spotty signal
<UnFixed> top floor is fine
<UnFixed> and i dont have a landline
<UnFixed> its not awful
<snap-l> Yeah, we have to keep our landline
<UnFixed> but can get choppy call quality in the worst spots
<snap-l> Thought about getting the Airrave
<ColonelPanic001> I don't call people anyway
<UnFixed> i dont want to pay for the airrave
<UnFixed> not worth the price to me
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: So tell me again why you're getting a phone?
<snap-l> Quality Reading on the toilet?
<ColonelPanic001> now and then, people call me
<ColonelPanic001> and Text messaging
<ColonelPanic001> and reddit
<UnFixed> ColonelPanic001: are you looking at ting?
<UnFixed> i have not read scrollback
<ColonelPanic001> not seriously, but it does sound enticing
<ColonelPanic001> as in, cheaper
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Honestly, Ting makes sense for you
<snap-l> the less you use, the less you pay
<UnFixed> well
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, UnFixed mentioned that once - that is pretty nice
<UnFixed> thing is
<UnFixed> he can use work phones, since hes in a group that does android dev
<snap-l> (https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/ <- my referral code)
<UnFixed> but
<UnFixed> if you go with ting, you're tied down to your phone
<UnFixed> its not like GSM
<snap-l> Right, it's a Sprint-only device.
<UnFixed> where you just switch out your sim card.
<ColonelPanic001> whut
<UnFixed> you have to use your sprint/ting phone
<snap-l> Sprint and Verizon are CDMA-based.
<ColonelPanic001> How very vendor-locky-in of them
<snap-l> and they're incompatible with each other.
<UnFixed> yes
<UnFixed> though iirc, cdma actually has a lot of benefits over gsm
<ColonelPanic001> anything I'd notice or care about?
<snap-l> However, if you're not planning on doing travel, and aren't one to switch phones all the time, it might make sense.
<UnFixed> no
<ColonelPanic001> I don't travel much, and I switch phones, but not commonly
<ColonelPanic001> and that's because they're not mine
<ColonelPanic001> it's not a deal-breaker
<UnFixed> so
<UnFixed> my billing period ends in 7 days
<UnFixed> and im currently at $15
<ColonelPanic001> nice
 * ColonelPanic001 sends text messages
<UnFixed> i actually have very little sms usage
<UnFixed> i text almost exclusively through google voice
<UnFixed> which is just data
<UnFixed> ive got another 80 messages before i get changed for mroe
<UnFixed> ive used ~20
<UnFixed> and most are probably from _stink__
<ColonelPanic001> I can send 80 SMSes in a week
<ColonelPanic001> time to increase your bill
<UnFixed> D:
<snap-l> So, how about that afternoon?
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<ColonelPanic001> afternoon is okay
<greg-g> not here yet
<ColonelPanic001> Penguicon tomorrow. You doing your traditional "record an episode at Pcon"?
<rick_h_> so have I missed anything today?
 * rick_h_ looks up for the first time since this morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: Apparently 13.04 was pinched off.
<greg-g> gross
<rick_h_> oh yea. that was today? :P
<snap-l> greg-g: You just chose to take it that way. ;)
<brousch> nice
<ColonelPanic001> Shuttleworth pinched off a loaf of Linux
<ColonelPanic001> no jokes about kernels in it
<greg-g> snap-l: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pinch_one_off
<greg-g> KORN!
<snap-l> greg-g: I said "pinch off", as in the floral sense.
<greg-g> oh, it's fragrent
<snap-l> (yes, I had to look that corner case. ;) )
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren_> wtf are you people talking about?
<greg-g> nothing
<brousch> jrwren_: lemur scat
<jrwren_> gross
<snap-l> and we now know one of brousch's hobbies
<flipsidecreation> and much to my disappointment 13.10 is being called Saucy Salamander and not Sexy Sheep
<jrwren_> i wanted slimy succubus
<brousch> flipsidecreation: Are you from New Zealand?
<flipsidecreation> Irish heritage
<brousch> I'm hoping for Tantalizing Tarsier. Tarsiers are my favorites
<ColonelPanic001> so much potential when they come back to "F"
<greg-g> brousch: I got it, don't worry
<greg-g> wait, Canonical is using "ubunt.eu" as it's shorturl domain? I.... uh....
<snap-l> Probably because .tu would make Canonical part of some export restrictions
<snap-l> Assuming it even exists. ;)
<snap-l> Hah, it doesn't.
<snap-l> Maybe Canonical could buy a country and apply for the .tu domain?
<snap-l> TLD rather?
<greg-g> snap-l++
<snap-l> So, who got their WWDC tickets?
<snap-l> Apparently they're going for Code Mash levels of not-getting-a-ticket.
<devinheitmueller> I feel like I should hold a conference called WWCD down the street from there the same week, for the thousands of people who couldn't get tickets to WWDC.
<snap-l> World Wide Convention Dyslexia?
<devinheitmueller> HA!
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: OK to post that to the intertubes w/ your name on it?
<devinheitmueller> Be my guest.  :-)
<snap-l> posted. :)
<jrwren_> i think WWDC is about 10 times bigger than codemash, but I could be wrong.
<greg-g> heya, anyone in here know an example of where a FLOSS project's community "elects" (for some value of elect) the release manager for the next X period of time?
<greg-g> I was told django and python do, but I can't find any documentation on it.
<jcastro> I believe Xorg does/did
<jcastro> I think they rotate and choose at their conference
<greg-g> OpenStack does, through the Tech Committee
<brousch> greg-g: I don't think Python elects
<greg-g> jcastro: cool
<brousch> If they elect, it is just core devs who vote
<greg-g> brousch: that's acceptable (I'm just looking for examples)
<jcastro> I don't know the details, but I remember them (Xorg) announcing things like that on the mailing list.
<greg-g> jcastro: coolio, I'll take a look
<brousch> greg-g: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/127733
<greg-g> brousch: hah, thanks
<snap-l> http://www.ismytwitterpasswordsecure.com/
<flipsidecreation> Ha
<flipsidecreation> Dam it! it won't let me check!
<snap-l> turn off javascript and try it.
 * greg-g viewed source on that page when he first saw it
<greg-g> jcastro: what happened in March that caused the number of open blueprint items to jump so much? http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/
<greg-g> the whole "rolling release fiasco" was in feb
<rick_h_> lol, fiasco?
<greg-g> the email that Steve L sent suggesting the move to a rolling release that caused a lot of uproar
<rick_h_> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-unity-apis.html seems to have hur but it's 13.10 for some api/backend stuff?
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, looks like that's the only group that jumped in March
<greg-g> blame it on Unity
<greg-g> ;)
<rick_h_> works for me! :)
<greg-g> but...
<greg-g> on the unity one, the jump was only like 20 work items, on that big overgraph, it's hundreds
<jcastro> greg-g: yeah I think all the mir/unitynext crap got piled on
<greg-g> oh, MIR!
<greg-g> right!
<greg-g> that makes sense
<jcastro> that + moving to 3 month UDS cycles confused everyone I think
<jcastro> I have no idea what the status of my raring items are
<jcastro> I moved them all over to 13.03
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> Crap. A 2 year old SSD just died on me
<rick_h_> :(
<brousch> Gonna be a fun night installing windows
<brousch> hm, 3 year warantee
<rick_h_> brousch: what brand?
<brousch> OCZ
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> That's my biggest fear with SSD
<rick_h_> I don't know why it's more than any other drive
<rick_h_> but I will say I'm not an OCZ fan so I'm keeping quiet
<brousch> The bad part is how suddenly it fails
<brousch> With a hard drive you have weeks to years of grinding noises
<brousch> This thing worked fine for 2 years, then one reboot it's totally gone
<brousch> 3 year warranty is unexpected
<rick_h_> good ones are 3 or 5
<rick_h_> intel 520s are 5yr
<rick_h_> crucial's are 3 I think
<rick_h_> yea, 3yr on the m500 models and such
<rick_h_> woot! expanding the nas volume now. from 1.79 to 2.72TB
<brousch> nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-26
<jrwren> my custom sata to esata doesn't work :(
<jrwren> i'll have to get out the caliper and take some measurements
<brousch> I found out the esata on my synology is only for attaching an esata drive, not for attaching as a guest
<jrwren> lol
<brousch> Yeah, so I'm stuck with gigabit
<snap-l> jrwren: A+ fkr effort
<jrwren> ty
<jrwren> i shall try again
<jrwren> hopefully pins are just not aligned
<jrwren> i did make it fit
<jcastro> rick_h_: ping
<jcastro> around?
<snap-l> btw: Release party at Penguicon tomorrow
<rick_h_> jcastro: not really around heh
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Good morning, fellow Earth-travelers.
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> Just found out Google Contacts has a drop-down for Google Voice numbers
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> Yeah, makes it a liittle nicer not to have to think: OK, which is the GV number, and which is the ...
<rick_h_> yea
<flipsidecreation> I have been using btsync for a few days now, works really well
<rick_h_> very cool
<flipsidecreation> started a subreddit for people to post publicly http://www.reddit.com/r/btsecrets/
<snap-l> http://www.sjgames.com/img/newsq/illq/2013/OgreGarageFilledSponsor--800x600.jpg
<snap-l> That is a lot of cardboard.
<brousch> What is that?
<rick_h_> umm, interesting
<snap-l> OGRE board game that I backed on Kickstarter
<snap-l> http://www.boardgamegeek.com/blog/1648/ogre-how-a-giant-cybernetic-tank-changed-my-life
<brousch> snap-l: What's a good RPG for a 5 year old?
<snap-l> I have just the thing
 * brousch is afraid too look
<snap-l> http://www.rpgnow.com/product/94507/Argyle-%26-Crew---Adventure-in-the-Land-of-Skcos
<brousch> hm
<snap-l> http://www.rpgnow.com/product/106605/Hero-Kids---Fantasy-RPG <- haven't read this one, but it appears to be well regarded
<brousch> You read sock puppets?
<snap-l> I read through it. It looked cute.
<snap-l> http://www.rpgnow.com/product/92348/Do%3A-Pilgrims-of-the-Flying-Temple <- This one is pretty interesting as well
<snap-l> Excellent artwork
<snap-l> Might be a little over his head for now, but I think they have simplified rules for younger platers
<snap-l> players, even.
<snap-l> http://www.rpgnow.com/product/81529/Happy-Birthday%2C-Robot%21?manufacturers_id=2152
<snap-l> Haven't read this one at all, so I have no idea how it plays
<brousch> At his age it needs no math beyond finger counting and little reading
<snap-l> http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2011/10/an-in-depth-review-of-do-pilgrims-of-the-flying-temple/
<snap-l> What are his interests? Star Wars?
<brousch> and Thomas
<brousch> I modified the LEGO Minotaur game to make it more interesting, but he often got distracted and wanted to role play the characters. So I think and RPG might be fun for him
<brousch> The Hero kids looks pretty good
<snap-l> Yeah, that one could work
<snap-l> You might want to check out Do as well
<snap-l> I think you could adapt it for him
<snap-l> the mechanic is pretty simple
<snap-l> pull three stones from a bag
<snap-l> It has a writing component, but you could have him dictate to you
<brousch> He can write. It just takes a long time
<snap-l> Does he handle sentences?
<snap-l> I have the PDFs for Herokids if you want to peek at them.
<snap-l> (before buying of course. :) )
<snap-l> And Argyle and Crew is CC licensed.
<snap-l> brb. Gotta do some errands.
<Wolfger> And so Penguicon begins
<Wolfger> howdy 'buntu peeps
<flipsidecreation> howdy Wolfger
<rick_h_> party party
<Wolfger> you coming this year, rick_h_ or still shying away from the freak show? ;-)
<rick_h_> Wolfger: I'm working :(
<Wolfger> :-(
<brousch> Wolfger lives?
<rick_h_> no kidding :)
<flipsidecreation> Here is a cool visualization of the VideoLan servers getting DDOS attacked.  http://youtu.be/hNjdBSoIa8k
<brousch> Aren't they hosted on SourceForge?
<Wolfger> brousch: :-p
<flipsidecreation> they have direct download for windows  http://get.videolan.org/vlc/2.0.6/win32/vlc-2.0.6-win32.exe
<snap-l> Wolfger: come find me. i have a flash bet to settle.
<snap-l> we're not there yet
<brousch> Who is flashing?
<snap-l> i am. flashing beer to Wolfger for flash failing to die quicket
<brousch> ah
<Wolfger> can't wait. I'm thirsty. :-)
<Wolfger> hotel has a nice beer list, too. I'm going to have to try some new beers tonight.
<Wolfger> upgrading to 12.10... is 13.04 released yet?
<brousch> yes
<Wolfger> ok, so it must be a stepping stone process
<brousch> 12.04 is the best
<brousch> kubuntu
<Wolfger> so far as I'm concerned, 7.04 was the best
<Wolfger> but you have to "advance" some time
<greg-g> 7.04... was that fiesty?
<greg-g> hellz yeah!
<greg-g> look who has a memory!
<jrwren> skipped from b to f, right?
<Wolfger> greg-g: you're still here? I thought you quit Ubuntu as well as Michigan ;-)
<Wolfger> you should come to the #pcon again
<greg-g> Wolfger: heh, my heart will always be in #ubuntu-michigan, I mean #ubuntu-us-mi
<greg-g> Wolfger: wish I could
<snap-l> hullo from pcon
<rick_h_> snap-l: party
<Wolfger> The hunt for my beer begins!
<greg-g> I'm seriously about ready to kill this laptop
<greg-g> awesome: "Ubuntu release party in tiki bar area at 7 pm #penguicon"
<rick_h_> woot, with ya in spirit. glass of wine at the keyboard.
<rick_h_> if I'm working at night it'll be my way :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-27
<Blazeix> whoa, when did firefox's built-in dev tools grow up?
<Blazeix> nowhere near webkit's, but a contender for firebug
<Wolfger> snap-l: I forgot to mention... I picked up an Apple keyboard off the freebie table. I recall you are a fan? Yours if you want it. Sticky note says F key sticks, but really, F key doesn't like to work.
<snap-l> Wolfger: actually sold my apple keyboards, savefor a blue tooth model. but thank you.
<ColonelPanic001> o.o
<snap-l> morning
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<ColonelPanic001> highlights to the schedule? looks a little light this morning. Unless I go to belly dancing
<ColonelPanic001> I was told recently I needed a more physcally demanding hobby or exercise.
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I think the tech track was more heavy on Fri
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, seemed it a little
<Wolfger> PCIe and you at noon
<rick_h_> PCIe and me? didn't know we were that close
<Wolfger> well then maybe you need to attend and bridge that gap!
<Wolfger> Hesitant about attending "Ninjas, Brogrammers and Sparkly Code Princesses" later
<rick_h_> yea, that one souds scary
<jrwren> is that about making your own pcie devices?
<Wolfger> jrwren: "find out how easy it is to write drivers and otherwise interface"... "if there's time we'll do a demo"
<jrwren> wow, i should go.
<Wolfger> ....
<Wolfger> just got a bug mail for a bug report last touched (by me, no less) in 2008. It was marked incomplete with the comment "is this still a bug for you?"
<rick_h_> someone cares
<jrwren> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-04-28
<ColonelPanic001> fwiw, I went to "Ninjas, Brogrammers and Sparkly Code Princesses"
<ColonelPanic001> if anyone was curious
<ColonelPanic001> I mean, about the panel, not whether or not I went.
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: any good?
<snap-l> howwasthetalk?
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live at Penguicon!  Video: http://www.youtube.com/embed/y7zsgiH8Cl8 , Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<tony-smlr> We are also on #smlr
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: summarize in 1 sentence plz :)
<ColonelPanic001> it was okay
<ColonelPanic001> nothign groundbreaking or anything, but interesting enough to go to
<snap-l> That's cool
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, pretty much what it said on the box, so to speak. Talking a bit about company culture and things like "brogrammers" and "rockstar" and "ninja"  in job ads - whether it's a real miscommunication, an HR drone not knowing what they're talking about, etc.
<snap-l> I think it's places trying to seem more cool than they are
<ColonelPanic001> that's usually my assumption. Puts me off though.
<ColonelPanic001> just ugh. I'm not a "rockstar", unless they're cool with me shooting up at my desk and paying me millions
<ColonelPanic001> that's a damn rockstar
<ColonelPanic001> I'm a programmer.
<ColonelPanic001> just reminds me of an Axe Body Spray commercial
<ColonelPanic001> "COME BE AWESOME WITH CODE BRO!"
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: I think if they want rockstars, you should ask them to honor your rider.
<snap-l> Then put something in there about no brown M&Ms.
<ColonelPanic001> perfect
<ColonelPanic001> I should work on that, send it to my boss. He might be amused
<ColonelPanic001> "In light of developers in other areas being considered 'Rockstars' now, I believe I deserve the same respect. Here are a list of requirements:
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-21
<cmaloney> blergh
<cmaloney> I mean, good morning
<rick_h_> ugh sounds good to me
<cmaloney> yeah, this is first day back since Pycon
<cmaloney> and have exterminators coming in to see if there's anything in the traps
<cmaloney> fun fun
<rick_h_> wheeee
<rick_h_> and GSoC day
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h_> going to be a lot of explainin to do
<rick_h_> nodeman is going to br crushed
<cmaloney> Yeah, I know
<mrgoodcat> You know who you got then?
<rick_h_> yea, we picked two and they weren't duped
<rick_h_> so unless someone backs out we should be set with our two
<mrgoodcat> Duped?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: matches in multiple projects
<mrgoodcat> Who did you get? Or should I wait for announce?
<rick_h_> yea, we're not allowed to say anything until the announcement
<cmaloney> When is that supposed to happen?
<brousch> I think today 3pm our time?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, it said noon, but wasn't sure what noon that was
<brousch> I think all the other stuff has been pacific time
<mrgoodcat> ~timezones~
<mrgoodcat> how was everybody's easter?
<mrgoodcat> survive the families?
<brousch> I got sun on my face
<cmaloney> Easter was OK. Had the family over.
<cmaloney> Ate too much and wanted to sleep midway through
<brousch> Yeah, I felt awful from too much fatty food and candy last night. Rode the exercise bike this morning and am feeling much better
<cmaloney> I stayed away from the candy.
<cmaloney> The beer however was another story. :)
<mrgoodcat> I did a pretty good job not eating too much bad stuff...
<mrgoodcat> i went mountain biking early in the day so i felt pretty good around dinner time
<cmaloney> "pretty good" only works with horseshoes, hand-grenades and Windows Programming.
<mrgoodcat> lol windows programming
<mrgoodcat> how do I POSIX
<mrgoodcat> node takes FOREVER to build on a chromebook
<mrgoodcat> I don't like waiting
<cmaloney> Well, I don't think compiling software is part of Chromebook's core competencies. :)
<cmaloney> to be fair. :)
<brousch> It's Gentoo!
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> Anybody here use keybase?
<mrgoodcat> actually, aside from keybase, does anybody here use gpg regularly?
<cmaloney> I use it for password file encryption regularly
<cmaloney> what's up?
<mrgoodcat> other than encrypting things for my personal use (eg backups and such) I can't think of too many things I'd want to encrypt or sign
<mrgoodcat> I'm trying to figure out what the use case is that would make this useful to me
<mrgoodcat> I love the idea, but I'm not sure where it fits into my life
<cmaloney> One use would be for sending sensitive documents (PDF) via email
<cmaloney> rather than via fax or some other means.
<cmaloney> (assuming encryption experience on the other end)
<mrgoodcat> that's the part that is a pain
<cmaloney> Another use would be fore ensuring that your mail hasn't been tampered with
<cmaloney> (signing)
<mrgoodcat> I would love to encrypt and sign messages, but it seems like it would almost never be worth the trouble on the other end
<cmaloney> Depends on the audience
<mrgoodcat> I don't want to inconvenience my boss, or coworkers, or a client for that matter
<cmaloney> If it's a note to my mom asking her to pick up cat food for the cat while we're away then it's likely not worth the effort
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> no not likely
<mrgoodcat> especially since a GPG message would just be greek to my mom anyways
<cmaloney> Signing is pretty transparent if it's not supported
<cmaloney> encryption notsomuch. :)
<mrgoodcat> signing i guess
<mrgoodcat> I've seen signatures used in mailing lists quite a bit
<mrgoodcat> but i've never once felt the need to verify a signature
<cmaloney> yeah, I guess if you're paranoid that folks are taking your mail and messing with it signing makes sense
<mrgoodcat> it seems like a tool for paranoid people
<mrgoodcat> and making secure backupgs
<cmaloney> but I've never felt the need and feel if someone will take me out of context they'll do so signed email or not.
<mrgoodcat> wow spelling
<cmaloney> well, the Snowden revelations are giving me pause.
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: seems like every time i log on to g+ I see a picture of your wine
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: must mean you've got good timing :)
<cmaloney> Or you have him in a Friends circle which I believe has precedence.
<rick_h_> woot! I win!
<brousch> strange. I never see his wine
<cmaloney> brousch: You need to untick the "mute all posts from rick_h_ " box
<brousch> Rick Harding Works atÂ Morpace Inc Lives inÂ Michigan
<cmaloney> Old profile
<rick_h_> brousch: heh yea, you need rharding@mitechie.com profile
<brousch> I have both of them
<brousch> weird
<brousch> Maybe G+ is getting as bad as FB
<brousch> I unfriended the morpace rick_h, and now I see wine
<rick_h_> well there you go, guess your feed can only handle so much rick
<brousch> Safety feature to keep it below a certain threshold of awesome
<mrgoodcat> lol
<brousch> You all get rooms at the Blackwell for PyOhio?
<mrgoodcat> why the blackwell?
<rick_h_> easy walking distance to the union, others are there, and it's a really nice hotel with an omlette bar for breakfast
<brousch> They always stay at the Blackwell, but rooms are short there this year
<brousch> We'll be at the secondary hotel this year
<mrgoodcat> I wasn't even planning on going?
<mrgoodcat> any compelling reason i should?
<rick_h_> it's an awesome small python conference
<brousch> Varsity Inn South
<rick_h_> good open spaces, smart folks, and it's free to attend
<rick_h_> but I won't be there this year :(
<brousch> wat?
<mrgoodcat> the schedule is pretty sparse... http://www.pyohio.org/schedule/talks/list/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/MRI4og - PyOhio | Accepted Talks
<rick_h_> I have to travel for work that weekend
<brousch> mrgoodcat: They are still in request for talks phase
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: call for proposals is ongoing now
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> anywhere i can see proposals? or are they not public?
<brousch> Not public
<rick_h_> http://www.pyvideo.org/category go to pyohio
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/LOQIO2 - pyvideo.org - Categories
<brousch> Though you could volunteer as a reviewer/selector. It was about 4 hours of work last year
<brousch> Then fighting over talks was another 2 hour IRC meeting
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: you can even see a few talks from me and brousch in there
<mrgoodcat> cool :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: have you done one? I thought you did one but am not recalling
<mrgoodcat> so you're obviously pretty involved
<mrgoodcat> how is attendance usually?
<brousch> rick_h_: No. He is a slacker
<rick_h_> cmaloney: and I went to the first one that was some 50 people in a library room
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: so we're fans. It helped me get into python
<brousch> mrgoodcat: I want to say 275
<rick_h_> brousch: boooo. We'll have to make him go
<rick_h_> brousch: mrgoodcat they were over 350 I thought last year?
<brousch> Could be
<mrgoodcat> wow
<mrgoodcat> nice turnout
<brousch> 302 last year
<rick_h_> Attendee growth from 150 developers in 2010 to 350 in 2013.
<rick_h_> per the sponsor prospectus
<cmaloney> rick_h_: A PyOhio talk? I've only volunteered
<brousch> Hm, the email from Costlow says verified 302
<mrgoodcat> "in and around Ohio and the entire midwest"
<rick_h_> cmaloney: gotcha, I kept thinking you did some pygame something or other but mixing up mug/etc
<mrgoodcat> what does that even mean? the conference isn't in a single location?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I've convinced several of JoDee's friends to go
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, I've only done Pygame talks at Penguicon and MUG
<cmaloney> not at PyOhio
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: It means the conference draws from many states, not just Ohio
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> i'm having a hard time figuring out where this thing even is
<mrgoodcat> columbus?
<rick_h_> yea, right on campus
<brousch> Hm, I thought they said Varsity Inn south was walkable, but it's really far
<rick_h_> < 1mi?
<rick_h_> that's kind of my 'walkable' limit
<rick_h_> after 1mi it's a hike
<rick_h_> though cmaloney and I did some hiking for chicken in montreal lol
<mrgoodcat> I walked 6mi from my hotel to dinner in Ft Lauderdale
<rick_h_> needs a big dinner for that one
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> actually dinner was really good
<mrgoodcat> i was not disappointed
<mrgoodcat> and a saw the bat yacht so that was cool
<brousch> 1.7 miles
<cmaloney> rick_h_ and I always manage some excursion to far-away lands on our trips. :)
<brousch> I guess that's a 30 minute brisk walk
<brousch> You get free parking if you're speaker, so I'm sure we'll be lazy
<brousch> http://goo.gl/maps/YeMoj
<bookiebot> Varsity Inn OSU South to Ohio Union- The Ohio State University - Google Maps
<mrgoodcat> brousch: you doing a talk this year?
<brousch> Maybe'
<brousch> Some pieces are coming together for a good follow-up talk to last year's
<mrgoodcat> what was last years?
<brousch> http://www.pyvideo.org/video/2259/kivy-creating-desktop-and-mobile-apps-with-pyth
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/CIDMBH - pyvideo.org - Kivy - Creating Desktop and Mobile Apps with Python
<brousch> 2 hour tutorial
<brousch> One of the new projects I introduce at the end has matured well, and there's a project that makes it a lot easier to compile APKS now, and both of those projects have GSoC students this year
<brousch> So they should improve quite a bit
<mrgoodcat> cool :)
<brousch> One of my goals with Kivy was to make Android apps on Android using Python so kids whose only computer is a tablet could do so. However there has been a noticable shift in the market from tablets in schools to Chromebooks, so I'm not as gung-ho for that
<rick_h_> the web will always win, eventually
<brousch> That is a good thing
<mrgoodcat> and development in web browsers has become pretty good actually
<mrgoodcat> I was amazed how easy dev was on my chromebook
<mrgoodcat> granted, i still put ubuntu on it
<mrgoodcat> no web application can beat vim yet :)
<brousch> You use a browser IDE?
<mrgoodcat> i tried a few
<mrgoodcat> they were....
<mrgoodcat> better than expected
<mrgoodcat> but most of them are paid services that run your app on a low-spec VM
<mrgoodcat> so since vim and localhost are free linux won that battle
<mrgoodcat> some of them have heroku integration though. so you can deploy right from the web interface which is kinda cool
<brousch> Yeah, that's what I found too
<brousch> I've only done vim over ssh to a remote server so far
<mrgoodcat> that's my preferred workflow
<mrgoodcat> sometimes localhost
<brousch> What's the next step up from Scratch?
<mrgoodcat> snap?
<mrgoodcat> it was originally a scratch mod with lambdas, first class data, procedures, recursion
<mrgoodcat> but now it's been rewritten in javascript an they no longer consider themselves a scratch mod but rather a totally separate project
<brousch> Good find!
<mrgoodcat> http://snap.berkeley.edu/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/s26Lr1 - SNAP! (Build Your Own Blocks)
<brousch> That gets me through the next few years of teaching my son
<mrgoodcat> after that i'd say the next step might be a real high level programming language
<mrgoodcat> python, ruby, [insert easy programming language here]
<brousch> right
<brousch> Python
<brousch> But that looks like a good in between
<mrgoodcat> here is the original scratch mod http://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/Build_Your_Own_Blocks_(Scratch_Modification)
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/KuEiok - Build Your Own Blocks (Scratch Modification) - Scratch Wiki
<mrgoodcat> cool that it runs entirely in browser http://snap.berkeley.edu/snapsource/snap.html
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/5u7UHn - Snap! Build Your Own Blocks. Beta
<brousch> Yeah, with chromebooks doing it all in browser is important
<brousch> Until kids are mature enough to use ssh and vim ;)
<greg-g> brousch: start 'em on the command line first
<mrgoodcat> that's a theory i've heard a lot
<greg-g> who was it, one of the dads on planet debian did that
<mrgoodcat> work from the bottom up
<greg-g> it worked pretty well for him/his son
<greg-g> john goerzen?
<mrgoodcat> it's the same idea as learning c as a first programming language
<greg-g> can't remember
<brousch> I'd need to take away his chromebook
<brousch> This would not go over well
<mrgoodcat> chromebook does ssh
<greg-g> yeah, once you go gui....
<mrgoodcat> ctrl+alt+t
<rick_h_> it takes you years to find your mistake and go back to no gui :P
<mrgoodcat> ssh me@awesomeserver.com
<greg-g> rick_h_: :)
<mrgoodcat> brousch: what model chromebook is it?
<brousch> c720
<brousch> 4GB model
<mrgoodcat> i have the c720. I've found it to be a pretty capable machine
<mrgoodcat> i the c720P actually
<brousch> Yeah, I like them
<mrgoodcat> brousch: what is your goal? are you trying to teach him more about how the computer actually works or just to think like a programmer?
<brousch> Programming right now. Scratch seems perfect. Once he has some scratch experience, we can work on the Rpi with it too
<mrgoodcat> but more fundamentally than that, is it the logic structure? or the analytic skills? or something else?
<mrgoodcat> there's some motivation behind it i assume?
<brousch> I think it's an important skill to learn, and the schools do a rotten job of it
<mrgoodcat> yea my school's programming class was a joke
<mrgoodcat> HTML is not programming....
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: wait, WHAAAAT?
<mrgoodcat> unfortunately, my parents weren't great with computers either
<mrgoodcat> so i was pretty much all self taught until college
<mrgoodcat> actually, i still consider myself mostly self taught
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I taught myself computers as well up until high-school / college
<mrgoodcat> most of what school did was point out the things i don't know so i could research them on my own later
<cmaloney> and yes, I learned the fundamentals in school but my day-to-day stuff is mostly self-taught
<mrgoodcat> even college did a pretty meh job of actually teaching
<mrgoodcat> they never go in depth enough
<cmaloney> Well, to be fair, I wasn't ready for a lot of things they tried to teach me
<mrgoodcat> most of the alg/struct teaching consisted of "this thing A exists", "here is an implementation in Java of A", "Please memorize the time/space complexity of A", "on to thing B"
<cmaloney> That's not teaching, that's asking you to memorize wikipedia
<mrgoodcat> yerp
<cmaloney> I hate that
<mrgoodcat> even in my college classes i had to pretty much teach myself
<cmaloney> Like memorizing hte periodic table
<cmaloney> I challenge you to find a chemestry classroom that doesn't have a periodic table prominently displayed
<brousch> In the end, you have to teach yourself
<brousch> We cannot cram knowledge into brains yet
<cmaloney> Well, and there's a difference between knowledge and trivia
<cmaloney> knowing what an atomic number and how it relates to chemical process is knowledge
<cmaloney> knowing the atomic number of Krypton is trivia
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: i made lastfm function ignore #bookie
<mrgoodcat> sorry i know how spammy bots can become when you get carried away
<rick_h_> sorry, I live in irc all day and am old school so hate the busyness sometimes
<mrgoodcat> that's fine
<mrgoodcat> any of the other functions you want ignored in #bookie?
<cmaloney> .np
<cmaloney> nuts
<cmaloney> :)
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: you have to use your username
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoh
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - Solsagan by Finntroll on Nifelvind [21 Apr 2014, 17:56]
<cmaloney> Oh, nice .:)
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_ didn't like that function in #bookie
<mrgoodcat> i think he's trying to keep botspam down
<cmaloney> rick_h_ is a fuddy-duddy. :)
<mrgoodcat> i just made that function ignore #bookie
<cmaloney> (Yeah, that can get a little annoying)
<mrgoodcat> i do realize i've gotten a little carried away with adding functionality too
<mrgoodcat> esp. since most is useless really
<mrgoodcat> the lastfm app scrobbles the google music app, which apparently is used for android sounds
<mrgoodcat> so i get my notifications in my scrobble list
<mrgoodcat> sometimes... apparently not all the time
<mrgoodcat> i just left like 20 channels on 3 servers. my channel list was getting too long
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: you should see the WMU computer club channel. i think we might have more bots than humans
<mrgoodcat> top artist of all time on last.fm is coldplay.... wat?
<cmaloney> Wee
<cmaloney> Apparently we got two rodents
<cmaloney> and one of them was further along down the decomposition path than the other one
<brousch> lovely
<brousch> For a second I thought you were talking about the gsoc students
<cmaloney> har har
<brousch> I feel bad for rejected gsoc students
<cmaloney> me too
<cmaloney> I'm in conversation with one at the moment who feels like we lead him on
<brousch> We have a butthurt one in #kivy too
<brousch> Is there a nicer word for butthurt?
<brousch> I know greg-g will not approve of that
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> aggravated?
<brousch> disgruntled maybe
<brousch> I'll go with disgruntled
<mrgoodcat> it makes sense that some people will be upset
<cmaloney> Yeah, and it's hard
<cmaloney> we had several folks put in some serious efort
<cmaloney> And under different circumstances they'd be celebrating tonight
<rick_h_> yea, it's just darn tough.
<rick_h_> you try to be supportive but they think you've milked them for their time
<rick_h_> one guy in #gsoc was pissed and ranted against OSS and rage quit
<brousch> just one?
<brousch> Hm, yeah, that has to be a crazy channel today
<rick_h_> well one I saw
<rick_h_> One guy I think quit but he's quiet and so he just left
<rick_h_> the other wanted to know what place he was in, who was ahead of him, and wants to compare commits and such
<brousch> Your selection was highly competitive just because of the number of proposals and slots
<brousch> We rejected half of our proposals
<rick_h_> yea, I'd say half of ours were no go at all
<brousch> We had 4 slots for 6 proposals
<rick_h_> but the other half were all usable
<rick_h_> you had 6 proposals?
<cmaloney> yeah, and had we had 5-6 slots we'd have easily filled them.
<rick_h_> wow
<brousch> So we accepted 3 and gave back 1 slot
<rick_h_> wow, ok I feel crazy now
<cmaloney> Had we had another mentor we would have easily filled another slot
<brousch> It is totally crazy
<cmaloney> Wonder if being under teh PSF was not the best move
<brousch> It was an extra hoop for students to jump through
<brousch> the PSF gave back 3 slots to the pool, I think
<mrgoodcat> Lots of people quit #bookie
<greg-g> awwww
<mrgoodcat> I get a join part quit synopsis in my client
<mrgoodcat> 9 quit 1 joined then quit
<mrgoodcat> Most names I didn't recognize though
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I think that's to be expected
<mrgoodcat> Yea but still would have been nice to see them stay. Maybe now that rick_h_ won't be as swamped I'll try to get into some bookie code
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-22
<greg-g> rick_h_: mispell in your post title :)
<mrgoodcat> in what post title?
<greg-g> his bookie gsoc post he posted tonight
<greg-g> or, as he typed in the title "booke"
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i didn't even notice
<mrgoodcat> good catch
<rick_h_> greg-g: bah, stayed up too late writing that
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> morning
<brousch> rick_h_: Bookie is spelled wrong in the title and URL of your blog post http://blog.mitechie.com/2014/04/21/booke-meets-google-summer-of-code-2014/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/MM8cmt - Booke meets Google Summer of Code 2014 | Tech Rantings from a Michigan Techie
<rick_h_> thanks brousch updated
<brousch> URL is probably stuck with that, eh?
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> fail
<brousch> Great post though
<rick_h_> thanks
<rick_h_> cmaloney: is that one the merge at least?
 * rick_h_ feels stupid, never post to the internet when tired
<rick_h_> oh and morning
<mrgoodcat> gooooood morning campers
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: you can change the permalink on wordpress if you want. the old one stays working too
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: that's what I could not tell, if the old one would stay working
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's the merged one
<mrgoodcat> yes it does
<rick_h_> we'll try it
<cmaloney> rawr rawr rawr rawr
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Goat of Departure by The Black Dahlia Murder on Everblack
<cmaloney> Also: disk-bound stuff sucks. :)
 * cmaloney is creating a windows 7 vm while loading a mysql database locally and upgrading his machine
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, zentyal will be replacing our current network server in about 5 minutes...
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i feel your pain
<mrgoodcat> the bookie make install is not quick
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: i'm a bit confused by a part of the docs, but i'm not sure if it's just me or if the docs need updating
<mrgoodcat> http://docs.bmark.us/en/latest/tests.html#test-types
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/HzYGuV - Bookie Tests â Bookie 0.5.0 documentation
<mrgoodcat> doesn't seem to be consistent with what is actually done
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, 4yr old docs need updating
<mrgoodcat> i'm crawling through them right now
<mrgoodcat> cleaning up some things
<rick_h_> k
<mrgoodcat> like how in http://docs.bmark.us/en/latest/development.html the contents list should be hierarchical. It's not apparent that the 5 items under "about JSON API" belong to "About JSON API"
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/GrPMDd - Development â Bookie 0.5.0 documentation
<mrgoodcat> that really confused me for a while
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: in the docs, what do you think about making the toc tree a maxdepth of 2? so it shows one level of children. I think it would make the docs easier to navigate
<greg-g> rick_h_: never post on the internet when tired? shit man, I won't be able to do any work anymore.
<rick_h_> greg-g: :P
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: sounds fine to me I guess
<mrgoodcat> ok
<mrgoodcat> i think you're going to like what i've done with the docs
<mrgoodcat> also one more question
 * greg-g is going on 4.5 hours of sleep last night
<mrgoodcat> the admin calls, some start with /a/ some with /admin/
<mrgoodcat> what is the difference and should they be separate?
<jrwren> i think i got 11hrs of sleep last night.
<jrwren> 11hrs of sleep yesterday, and 11hrs of sleep the day before.
<jrwren> being sick SUCKS
<greg-g> jrwren: ahh, I was about to say, you decadent bastard!
<greg-g> jrwren: sorry you're sick, though
<greg-g> today should be fun, 4.5 hours of sleep on day one of three of this all day leadership training thing
<jrwren> decadent? yes, excuse me while I poor fresh pidgeon blood on my toe gout
<brousch> You have gout?
<jrwren> yes
<rick_h_> ouch! I had that once for a weekend. Painful!
<jrwren> but I don't use 16th century "remmedies"
<jrwren> only a weekend? you are lucky.
<brousch> I thought it was an old person thing
<jrwren> i am old.
<rick_h_> yea, had it flare up in a toe I injured as a kid and basically sat in bed for 3 days
<jrwren> oh, mine has never been that bad.
<jrwren> just some discomfort, maybe pain at worst, but I learned to manage it.
<jrwren> I don't even notice it anymore
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> it scared the crap out of me. Having that all the time would be awful. Couldn't walk
<jrwren> yeah, 'cept walking through it is actually good for it.
<jrwren> painful for sure
<greg-g> I had it a while ago, it did suck, lasted a little bit but wasn't debilitating
<brousch> Damn. I don't like the risk factors for gout. I think I hit them all, or will within 3 years
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> i mostly removed red meat from my diet. that helped.
<jcastro> rick_h_, wow!
<jcastro> you got two GSOC students?!
<rick_h_> jcastro: woot!
<brousch> I wonder how many you could have handled
<rick_h_> they say 10hrs a week
<rick_h_> so cmaloney and I will be good I think
<rick_h_> not like I'm earning a living on bookie :P
<brousch> canonical would give you a paid leave of absence, I'm sure
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> I think what rick_h_ means is "so sandbagger and I will be good I think". ;)
<cmaloney> Baked Lays: Now with 65% less fat *
<cmaloney> * than sticking your gob in a tub of Crisco and inhaling
<brousch> I'll kindly ask you to keep yer gob out of my Crisco bucket
<cmaloney> heh
<Havenstance> well, that server is in and running... I left the important half of the network on the old server for a day or two in order to test the uptime abilities. They will change over probably Friday but so far everythings looking good
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, thank you for the recommendation so far its doing everything he wanted and more.
<mrgoodcat> glad to hear it
<jrwren> TIL: getattr(obj, 'function') returns a bound method
<jrwren> sometimes python is black magic
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: this is how i'm building the plugin system for the newest version of bookiebot
<mrgoodcat> each plugin is a plug object and getattr() allows me to put all the callback functions in a dict so i can call plugs['command']()
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: cool!
<jrwren> i'm just hacking on simplejson
<jrwren> because there is no fast json in python.
<mrgoodcat> json isn't too slow in python...
<mrgoodcat> at least not in python 3
<jrwren> oh yes it is :p
<jrwren> do a list of 12million dictionaries
<rick_h_> umm, json is not a database?
<mrgoodcat> lol
<jrwren> but it might be an ETL tool :p
<mrgoodcat> sounds like you need redis
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: hahahaha, good one.
<mrgoodcat> but srsly why do you have a list of 12 million dicts?
<jrwren> that is not important.
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: what did you think of the documentation changes? didn't really make a lot of substantial changes to the content but I find it easier to navigate this way
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: not looked yet, been a busy work day
<mrgoodcat> cool
<mrgoodcat> no worries
<mrgoodcat> i have to go to school soon anyways :(
<cmaloney> Who's fault is that? :)
<mrgoodcat> ummmmm
<mrgoodcat> i don't have an answer for that?
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> zomg, python never ceases to amaze me.
<jrwren> function calls are so expensive!
<mrgoodcat> is that surprising?
<cmaloney> Why is this surprising?
<cmaloney> This isn't C.
<jrwren> i'm used to C
<mrgoodcat> try ruby
<jrwren> or C like langauges.
<jrwren> are funciton calls slow in Ruby too?
<mrgoodcat> 1999 times do chain.ten.million.functions
<cmaloney> Part of the fun of Python is everything acts like an object
<cmaloney> including methods. :)
<mrgoodcat> yea and ruby is even more so that way
<mrgoodcat> even keywords in ruby are objects
<mrgoodcat> you can override def if you want
<mrgoodcat> not sure why you'd want to but.....
<mrgoodcat> you can
<jrwren> what about literals?
<jrwren> can I override []
<mrgoodcat> you can override Array
<cmaloney> def def: if def == 'foo': monkeypatch. ;)
<jrwren> i'd love to override python literals
<cmaloney> jrwren: Check out the Hy project
<jrwren> yeah... that isn't python
<jrwren> that is a lisp that runs on pyhton
<cmaloney> If anyone is close to making Python into a DSL it's Hy
<mrgoodcat> in ruby even == is a method
<jrwren> yup, they are an interesting group of hackers.
<mrgoodcat> it has some syntax sugar to make it easy to type
<cmaloney> Python is all about those clean coding techniques I learned in Mrd. Deryckre's Pascal class
<jrwren> hey, in c++ == is a method too :p
<mrgoodcat> but 1.==(1) is perfectly good ruby
<cmaloney> Hy is about taking everything I learned in that class and turning it on its head.
<mrgoodcat> so you can override == in the Numbers class to make 1 == 2
<mrgoodcat> er Integer maybe
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: same with c++
<jrwren> although, in ruby it is open classes
<mrgoodcat> it's part of the reason rails is so damn easy to use
<mrgoodcat> "tomato".pluralize makes "tomatoes" when that isn't even remotely a part of a regular string literal
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> and the kids LOVE IT
<jrwren> its just fancy calling syntax on a pluralize(str) global function.
<jrwren> I like C#'s extension method approach.
<jrwren> IMO it makes more sense
<jrwren> but I must admit I love the optional parens
<jrwren> aren't the commas optional too?
<jrwren> so i can write stuff like this
<mrgoodcat> no. commas are req'd
<mrgoodcat> def add x, y
<mrgoodcat>   x + y
<mrgoodcat> end
<mrgoodcat> add 3, 1  # => 4
<jrwren> oh, just the parens are optional
<mrgoodcat> yea
<jrwren> so if I write functions that only take 1 arg, ever, then I never need a comma?
<mrgoodcat> right
<jrwren> sounds great!
<mrgoodcat> def pluralize word
<mrgoodcat>   "#{word}s
<mrgoodcat> end
<mrgoodcat> pluralize "tomato" # => "tomatos"
<mrgoodcat> it's not correct but it shows the basic idea
<mrgoodcat> also i missed the closing "
<mrgoodcat> def pluralize word
<mrgoodcat>   "#{word}s"
<mrgoodcat> end
<mrgoodcat> pluralize "tomato" # => "tomatos"
<rick_h_> ccccccdilrkrvljnegtdjgnjvclvkkncjbfglddkkhrh
<rick_h_> bah
<mrgoodcat> sry bout spam
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: it is actually a really cool language. just getting your environment set up can be a pain
<jrwren> ruby?
<jrwren> I've used it for only slightly more than the trivial.
<jrwren> i've nothing against ruby.
<mrgoodcat> i was more of a rubyist than anything for a long time
<mrgoodcat> maybe still today
<jrwren> pythons "everything is an object"... "oh except builtins and cpython types and..."
<jrwren> drives me crazy
<jrwren> ruby is definitely nicer there.
<mrgoodcat> although i'm becoming increasingly comfortable with python, i still feel I know ruby's advanced features much better
<jrwren> tehre are advanced features?
<mrgoodcat> well it makes metaprogramming pretty easy, and open classes aren't exactly the first thing you learn in any language
<mrgoodcat> or defining your own domain specific language, which is pretty much encouraged in ruby
<mrgoodcat> also the differences between require and include are confusing at first, as well as catch/throw vs begin/raise/rescue
<mrgoodcat> catch/throw is mainly used for excecution flow control where begin/raise/rescue is for exception handling
<jrwren> sounds complex.
<mrgoodcat> it's really not. but you did ask what the advanced features are
<mrgoodcat> if you're interested give this a read http://rubylearning.com/blog/2011/07/12/throw-catch-raise-rescue-im-so-confused/
<mrgoodcat> time for class
<mrgoodcat> good talk
<jrwren> http://rubylearning.com/blog/2011/07/12/throw-catch-raise-rescue-im-so-confused/  shows as empty response
<mrgoodcat> hmmmm
<mrgoodcat> it just broke apparently
<mrgoodcat> i was just looking at it
<mrgoodcat> google to the rescue http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Hwys7iKcvKcJ:rubylearning.com/blog/2011/07/12/throw-catch-raise-rescue-im-so-confused/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/2bLjR7 - Throw, Catch, Raise, Rescueâ¦ Iâm so confused!
<mrgoodcat> when i instantiate a python object, is there a way to make it inherit the scope of the calling class?
<mrgoodcat> but i don't want it to have the entire scope, prefferably it would be able to pick out certain variables
<jrwren> inherit implies an OO inheritance model, is that what you want?
<jrwren> sounds like you are trying ot not write much needed __init__ code :)
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> no i'm just trying to figure out a way to have all of the plugins be able to access the IRC connection
<mrgoodcat> right now i'm passing the irc object to the call function for the plugin so it can write to the server
<mrgoodcat> but i wish i didn't have to
<mrgoodcat> java--
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-23
<jrwren> use a global
<jrwren> you writing an irc bot?
<jrwren> you could do nice things with **kwargs
<mrgoodcat> yes it's an irc bot
<mrgoodcat> mostly i'm just stuck out of ideas of what to do with it
<mrgoodcat> most of my ideas involve WAY too much talk in the channel == spam
<mrgoodcat> so now i'm just trying to find ways to make the code better
<mrgoodcat> but not nessecarily more functional
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_ waf cmaloney when is chc tomorrow? i always forget which one is the early one
<cmaloney> next week is early
<mrgoodcat> ok
<mrgoodcat> ty
<cmaloney> usually it's the last wed of the month
<rick_h_> rgr, it'll be 8pm
<mrgoodcat> yea i always forget that
<jrwren> ya know what is really fast at all those function calls and those 10million dicts in a list to json?
<jrwren> pypy
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Dammit. I was hoping that a particular request at work wasn't going through.
<cmaloney> But apparently it is, so whee!
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> I hate it when I lose those sorts of bets with myself. :)
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: well yea, switching implementations is cheating though
<jrwren> its not cheating!
<jrwren> you really think so?
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> hey whatever works man
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: how slow is slow?
<mrgoodcat> for the json?
<jrwren> yes, the json
<jrwren> 1,000,000 dicts in a list.
<jrwren> 78s with CPython
<jrwren> some tweaks with simplejson and for_json can get it down to 68s
<jrwren> pypy - 11s
<jrwren> pypy - with same tweaks - 8s
<mrgoodcat> that is quite the improvement
<rick_h_> JIT ftw for that kind of repetitive function calling
<mrgoodcat> i wonder if the new dropbox VM for it will be everything it's supposed to be
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: what about with marshal or pickle?
<jrwren> its likely the same
<Havenstance> could you guys look at this and see if you can make heads or tails of this apt-get error?
<Havenstance> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7315217/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/51akbC - Ubuntu Pastebin
<rick_h_> Havenstance: go look in /var/lib/apt/lists/
<Havenstance> rick_h_, I found the problem. I had a duplicate entry lines 21 and 25 of the pastebin
<cmaloney> JoDee's teaching a magnetics lab today
<cmaloney> and I have Insane Clown Posse's Miracles stuck in my head.
<cmaloney> specifically: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvmvxAcT_Yc
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/Tv0lbQ - Fuckin' Magnets, how do they work? - YouTube
<jrwren> lol
<greg-g> why are magnet's bipolar instead of tri or quadpolar?
<rick_h_> binary rules the world
<cmaloney> greg-g: Problem with this class is there's a bunch of things that students are taking based on faith
<cmaloney> because they don't have the experience with physics to handle anything more complex than "here's some iron filings"
<greg-g> rick_h_: but nothing in the math/physics says it couldn't have been trinary or quadary, it was, according to my college physics prof, "just one of those things that could have gone differently"
<Havenstance> so the boss waits until the server is in deployment to remove the encryption..... yay me, live removal whilest in production should be fun lol.
<Havenstance> how's everyone today? Haven't been around in a few days
<Havenstance> how hard would it be to write a simply program in python that would chown a file from root to the Users Group in like Python or something?
<jrwren> its 1 syscall
<jrwren> import os
<jrwren> os.chown
<Havenstance> hm. i'll try it
<Havenstance> the only way I can get wireshark on linux to run allowing me to save any files or access any directories is if i run it with root perms
<Havenstance> but then every file i save is openable only by root I cant touch it from winblows...
<Havenstance> ideally i'd save the file on the host machine and be able to go to the win machine and open it in a wireshark client there to read and/or print the contents of the files
<Havenstance> could I change the owner of the directory to something like $USERS so everyone could read and write to it with it being a network share drive without interfering with ACL permissions?
<Havenstance> one way to find out I suppose
<Havenstance> score one for me :)
<Havenstance> no need i just chowned the dir from root to user:
<MaskedDriver> http://imgur.com/r/funny/EAaIkZr
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/G0baRS - He gave a âWuddup. Peep this.â nod to the cameraman. - Imgur
<MaskedDriver> wrong channel. Still hilarious
<cmaloney> I swear the thing that always bites me in the ass about python is not having __init__.py in a directory that I'm trying to load a module from
<cmaloney> Also: Apparently today needed a Hammond Organ.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Howlin' At The Sea by The Grave Dolls
<brousch> cmaloney: That is fixed in Python 3.3 http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1230000000393/ch10.html#_problem_173
<brousch> Well, sort of
<mrgoodcat> i use python 3.3 for everything and i still have to put __init__.py
<mrgoodcat> hmmm
<mrgoodcat> sys.path.extend fixes it?
<brousch> I guess it's not fixed, but you can exclude __init__.py to make namespace packages
<cmaloney> brousch: That's all fine and good but I'd like my hour back if you don't mind. :)
<mrgoodcat> i just tested it and apparently im just mentally challenged
<mrgoodcat> it is fixed
<rick_h_> __init__.py is a good thing
<rick_h_> it's your chance to fix the api for your module
<brousch> Maybe you should modify your editor to always add them for you
<rick_h_> embrace it and use it and never forget :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I will, just after I find the person who put imports in the middle of code
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> circular imports fml?
<cmaloney> Maybe.
<rick_h_> or was I just evil and imported in the middle of code?
<brousch> For instance in Pydev, you add a new PyDev Package and it makes __init__.py
<cmaloney> I'm not sure if this was you or someone else
<rick_h_> oh, in that case "those bastards!"
<cmaloney> Just having fun "porting" code from one system to another.
<rick_h_> "little copy here and a little paste here and we've cargo culted bad code through all the code bases yay"
<cmaloney> copy of a copy of a copy fo a cpy og a cp of a crapy
<rick_h_> "wow, how do we keep running into this bug?"
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> Though I fixed a bug that John was having in another piece of his code.
 * cmaloney doesn't believe the unicode hype. UTF-8 is enough for everyone. ;)
<mrgoodcat> UTF-8 is the one true encoding
<cmaloney> Yep, which is why Windows and Excel use UTF-16
<cmaloney> because fuck me
<mrgoodcat> do they really...
<cmaloney> Yep
<mrgoodcat> did you see the times' python module for working with excel?
<brousch> UTF-64 is what we need
<cmaloney> Because we haven't had enough byte-endianness issues this century.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Need a little more to go off
<cmaloney> brousch: Right, because I won't be satisfied until we have the equivalent of a Sinclair ZX81 representing each characacter
<mrgoodcat> er NPR
<mrgoodcat> not times
<mrgoodcat> .bmark dyladan
<bookiebot> http://copytext.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ - copytext 0.1.1 (beta) â copytext 0.1.1 (beta) documentation
<cmaloney> Yeah, I just took a peek at it.
<cmaloney> Interesting. I would have thought openpyxl would have suited their needs.
<mrgoodcat> idk
<mrgoodcat> i've never really needed it so i didn't really care
<mrgoodcat> but you were just complaining about excel so i figured you might
<cmaloney> If it weren't for openpyxl I would have much more slitted wrists.
<brousch> Wow, this is awesome http://projectnaptha.com/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/Ew4BEH - Project Naptha
<mrgoodcat> yea that was a hot topic on hacker news recently
<mrgoodcat> maybe as recently as yesterday?
<brousch> :P
<gamerchick02> Trusty Tahir in the house!
<cmaloney> woo woo
<gamerchick02> yeah. did a fresh install and software audit last night. running like a champ.
<gamerchick02> also got my macbook back from microcenter and managed to walk out of there without buying anything (a FIRST!)
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> and woo woo for backups.
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> no setup on xchat.
<gamerchick02> just run deja dup and *magically* my files come back from my external drive
<gamerchick02> oh and grats to rick_h_ for the bookie GSoC thing
<gamerchick02> also back to chromium. i'm trying to limit ppas (again)
<gamerchick02> not sure if i will be successful
<gamerchick02> kernel updates?
<cmaloney> Yep. :)
<cmaloney> Welcome to Linux. :)
<gamerchick02> hah i know
<gamerchick02> this was easier to install than mavericks
<gamerchick02> oh and i grabbed the mac iso and i'm gonna try it live on my MBA
<gamerchick02> that should be fun
<gamerchick02> ;)
<mrgoodcat> gamerchick02: ask rick_h_ but I think the current generation works better with the regular iso
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: don't grab the mac iso, that's for legacy devices
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-24
<gamerchick02> i did not know that. thanks!
<rick_h_> heh http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/23/5643774/google-is-testing-stars-an-attempt-to-make-bookmarking-actually-useful
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/qyGNmt - Google is testing 'Stars,' an attempt to make bookmarking actually useful | The Verge
<brousch> rick_h_: Sounds more like evernote than bookie to me
<cmaloney> OK, am I missing something?
<cmaloney> 14.04 doesn't have an alternate .iso?
<cmaloney> So how does one set up RAID under 14.04?
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: server iso?
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's the best option at the moment
<brousch> Drama on the GSoC ML
<cmaloney> Of course.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> yea, I love it. Makes me realize our drama is so small
<cmaloney> Whatever. Go grind your axe off-list.
<cmaloney> brb.
<brousch> Why would he even sign up as a mentor to begin with?
<brousch> rick_h_: I didn't know orgs got paid. What are you doing with your $500? PSF sucks up ours.
<brousch> The t-shirts and such?
<rick_h_> brousch: not sure I'll ask for it yet tbh
<rick_h_> I've got to look at the docs and paperwork
<brousch> Nice that they'll fly you to Google too
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: does bookie have a twitter account? I was going to mention in a tweet but couldn't find one
<mrgoodcat> i ended up just mentioning you and linking to the github
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: RT you from there
<rick_h_> RT'd that is
<mrgoodcat> cool
<mrgoodcat> followed
<brousch> It's amazing how a $100 car repair turns into $750
<rick_h_> brousch: ftw :/
<brousch> My usual mechanic doesn't do alignments, so I brought it to belle tire. They want to replace my shocks and struts
<brousch> balance and alignment
<cmaloney> Yeah, they're all about upsell
<mrgoodcat> wow
<tony-smlr> .?
<rick_h_> .? party party
<brousch> Now they think I should get new wheels too
<rick_h_> lol, tirerack those bad boys
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> I don't know what that means
<rick_h_> I had to get new wheels and got them from tireracka because they were $440 per wheel at VW and < $250 at tirerack
<rick_h_> anyway, as a fellow wheel buyer
<Havenstance> what permissions do I have to give my folders for samba to be able to share them?
<brousch> Same permissions your user would need
<Havenstance> at this point i can read and write on the local machine but when i try to access from a windows client on the network I get a permission denied
<brousch> Usually add the user to a group, give the group permission
<brousch> don't forget to add the user to samba
<brousch> smbpasswd -a myuser
<jrwren> brousch: how old a car?
<brousch> 2002
<jrwren> huh, crazy.
<brousch> rick_h_: Wheels for my car would be $60 - $80
<jrwren> my 2003, i never get any suggestions on stuff.
<brousch> I wonder why yours are so much more
<brousch> jrwren: I think it's due to Belle tire being shady
<jrwren> i figured they see how old it is, and guess that I'm super poor and i don't do anything.
<jrwren> oh.
<jrwren> so are you really spending all that just for an alignment?
<brousch> I'll bring it to my regular mechanic tomorrow and see what he says
<jrwren> hell, $100 is a lot just for an alignment
<brousch> No. I spend $35 for a balancing
<brousch> $40
<mrgoodcat> take your front bumper off. nobody ever thinks you care enough to spend money on your car
<jrwren> balancing wheels? meh, run unbalanced. who cares :p
<mrgoodcat> i knocked mine off using somebody's explorer
<mrgoodcat> best decision i ever made :P
<brousch> My car is old, unwashed, rusted, and trashed inside. Nobody looking at it would think I care
<jrwren> what were they thinking? what a bunch of idiots.
<mrgoodcat> mine is actually still pretty nice. just haven't put the new bumper on it yet
<brousch> I threw a wheel weight during the winter and it vibrates a lot over 50mph
<brousch> Much better now that it's rebalanced
<rick_h_> yea, if the balance isn't just right the touareg shutters
<jrwren> that sounds nice.
<jrwren> I'd do that, except i'd just lose a weight on my commute home from the store.
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> I asked for alignment, but when they went to the up-sell they mentioned alignment is free with the $700 of other stuff. So I said OK just do the balancing for now
<brousch> Now I can see if the balance fixes my problems or if it really needs an alignment too
<mrgoodcat> heh
<mrgoodcat> ~free~
<brousch> So their up-sell cost them $75
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: get a chance to look at teh docs?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: no, worky worky for me
<mrgoodcat> busy busy bees
<mrgoodcat> how did the release go? wasn't that supposed to be today?
<rick_h_> yea, was up until 2am working on work last night and back at it today
<rick_h_> heh, it was supposed to be...except for the working until 2am thing found issues that made it no releaseable
<mrgoodcat> eww
<rick_h_> pretty much
<cmaloney> Ugh
<mrgoodcat> brousch: playing with rpi with the kid?
<brousch> Not yet :(
<mrgoodcat> stop motion animation on bmark.us/recent
<brousch> Too many meetings
<brousch> mrgoodcat: I BMed it :P
<brousch> I am going to use BM now instead of bookmark
<_stink_> hahaha
 * rick_h_ just shakes head
<rick_h_> bmark? anyone?
<brousch> I will fork Bookie and create MyBMs.com
<jrwren> i'm lolling.
<jrwren> bmark logo is going to be a steaming turd.  sorry rick_h_
<rick_h_> jrwren: woot, my work is done here
<mrgoodcat> wow http://www.daniellesucher.com/2014/04/24/my-new-favorite-vim-tmux-bug/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/Oks9Qt - My new favorite vim/tmux bug - Danielle Sucher
<mrgoodcat> just going to say i'd probably never have figured that out
<mrgoodcat> t_F9 == F19 wat
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-25
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<mrgoodcat> so far it seems to be
<brousch> cmaloney: Are you and JoDee going to pyohio this year?
<rick_h_> morning
<mrgoodcat> should I do-release-upgrade or fresh install 14.04?
<mrgoodcat> were peoples' experiences generally good with an upgrade?
<rick_h_> upgrades should be ok. Just watch out as it disables your ppas and the most custom stuff the more likely you are to have an issue
<mrgoodcat> i dont think i have any
<mrgoodcat> any idea how long it's expected to take?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: a while, depends on your net connection
<mrgoodcat> ok
<mrgoodcat> i'll do it this weekend then
<mrgoodcat> if you said it could be done before lunch i'd have done that but nope
<cmaloney> brousch:  That's the plan
<cmaloney> We're also bringing some folks with us
<cmaloney> (re: pyohio)
<brousch> Finally bringing some other East Siders?
<mrgoodcat> i'm thinking about going
<mrgoodcat> i'm an east sider
<mrgoodcat> is there a way to show every apt-get install i've ever done?
<mrgoodcat> not the dependencies, just the ones i explicitly asked for
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Outside of looking in the logs I'm not aware of a way
<cmaloney> brousch: But of course.
<mrgoodcat> whar be logs?
<cmaloney> michigan represent
<cmaloney> /var/log/apt/*
<mrgoodcat> the logs don't go back to the beginning of time apparently....
<mrgoodcat> sadface
<mrgoodcat> apparently chrome-unstable added kinetic scrolling
<mrgoodcat> AAAWWWW YEA
<mrgoodcat> now i have to get one of those rubber nib stylus pens so i don't fingerprint the crap outta my screen
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: chrome suggested tags has changed my life
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: aren't they cool?
<mrgoodcat> yes
<mrgoodcat> who's work enabled that?
<rick_h_> infinitum guy
<rick_h_> he's got a branch to help make it better I need to review/qa
<rick_h_> there's more work to make them better, can't wait.
<mrgoodcat> really?
<rick_h_> killer feature <3
<mrgoodcat> what a bamf
<cmaloney> bamf?
<mrgoodcat> bad ass mother fucker
<cmaloney> bad ass ... ..
<cmaloney> yeah
<mrgoodcat> er
<rick_h_> lol
<mrgoodcat> NSFW sorry if you guys are at work
<cmaloney> oh noes someone swore on the internet
<cmaloney> apparently mrgoodcat hasn't reviewed the logs for this channel
<mrgoodcat> umm
<mrgoodcat> no
<cmaloney> Let's just say if someone had a NSFW tag it would be me.
<cmaloney> I don't have a problem with expletives.
<cmaloney> I was really upset when I realized the O'Reilly book "PRogramming with Curses" was about a terminal library.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Well that's a bummer (re: the USB headphone adapter)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, that video led me to believe it would work :(
<cmaloney> Well shit.
<cmaloney> Time to get a USB mic. :)
<rick_h_> yea, so just have to go with the other model that has two ports for headphone/mic and then get a splitter
<rick_h_> that's more $$ but thought about it
<rick_h_> I like my noise cancelling earbugs
<rick_h_> earbuds
<rick_h_> doh
<cmaloney> www.amazon.com/Blue-Microphones-Snowflake-USB-Microphone/dp/B0012AUHXW
<mrgoodcat> "Programming with Curses" should be about the linux kernel
<mrgoodcat> http://www.vidarholen.net/contents/wordcount/
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/qn59eJ - Linux kernel swear counts
<mrgoodcat> stupid coworkers
<mrgoodcat> nobody cares about the "right" way
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Depends on what "the right way" is.
<mrgoodcat> the right way is not screwing with my zen at work
<mrgoodcat> and polluting the global namespace
<mrgoodcat> like a jackass
<mrgoodcat> and overriding builtin methods
<mrgoodcat> like an even bigger jackass
<cmaloney> How do you really feel?
<mrgoodcat> .zen 19 is there for a reason
<bookiebot> Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!
<cmaloney> .zen 66
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> .zen 20
<cmaloney> .zen 19
<bookiebot> Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!
<cmaloney> .zen 1
<bookiebot> Beautiful is better than ugly.
<cmaloney> OK, I'll stop now.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<greg-g> well crap/cool: http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/detail.page?DocID=HF004122&rd=1#special
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/DeaMM5 - Battery recall
<greg-g> crap: my battery might explode on my lap!
<greg-g> cool: I get a new free battery for my 4 year old laptop!
<rick_h_> good thing for them you have a removable battery...unlike the x240 :(
<greg-g> :( :(
<greg-g> see! It pays to stick with what works.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-26
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning, off to soccer for little people
<cmaloney> Ah, thought you were already in Vegas.
<cmaloney> Hope you all have fun
<rick_h_> no, leave tomorrow
<rick_h_> my day today to pack and finish laundry and such
<cmaloney> Fun fun
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Did you sort out the headphone / microphone situation?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: nope, still screwed
<rick_h_> bah, I'm going to get myself into trouble.
<rick_h_> someone on the internet is being a pita and I can't help myself
<cmaloney> it's not JoDee is it? :)
<rick_h_> no, Aaron toppance or whatever
<cmaloney> Oh, I could see you two getting into it
<rick_h_> well he's throwing torches at the building when it's not quite the fallen shack he portrays it to be
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: are you referring to this? https://twitter.com/AaronToponce/status/460083968751058944
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/fPcs9e - Twitter / AaronToponce: For those running #Ubuntu 13.10 ...
<rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/115784859563110525602/posts/6ELoSCwmrai
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/wgovoj - Aaron Toponce - Google+ - Holding down the <Enter> key in Ubuntu 14.04 bypasses theâ¦
<rick_h_> he started flaming under a bad cause, so now he's hunting for something bad to say
<rick_h_> normally I like/respect him but sure seems someone's made him cranky today and he's set on flaming
<mrgoodcat> just read the entire launchpad thread for the <Enter> bug
<mrgoodcat> it's actually a pretty fascinating bug
<mrgoodcat> but it did take less than a day from reported to fixed which is pretty nice
<rick_h_> and it was before 14.04 was released
<mrgoodcat> i've seen the wiped partition bug on forums/reddit
<rick_h_> so it fails his "why did you release with these bugs!"
<mrgoodcat> oh yea so it was
<mrgoodcat> the wiped partition bug is still not fixed though. unless i'm reading this wrong
<rick_h_> no, it's not. However, it was thought to be user error, and then just a 'text isn't clear' until after 14.04 was released
<rick_h_> if you look at the dates/discussion
<rick_h_> anyway, I'm done. This isn't constructive
<mrgoodcat> haha i'm not trying to argue
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> so yea, after all that discussion he goes to twitter with the final bug he finds. *sigh*
<mrgoodcat> Oh you were talking to him?
<rick_h_> in that G+ thread
<mrgoodcat> I thought you meant your conversation with me wasn't constructive
<mrgoodcat> I was confused
<rick_h_> oh sorry no. I mean't I'm done replying to him. Sorry for the confusion
<cmaloney> Unicode: Not once, not ever.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-04-27
<rick_h_> evening
<rick_h_> cmaloney: having unicode fun?
<cmaloney> yes
<cmaloney> fuck unicode
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Groceries and then hopefully Bookstock. :)
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> brb
<rick_h_> bookstock?
<cmaloney> Bookstock.
<cmaloney> It's a giant booksale ini Livonia
<gamerchick02> i...
<gamerchick02> didn't need to know that
<gamerchick02> gee thanks, cmaloney. ;)
<gamerchick02> life is good here
<rick_h_> heh, hacking from I75 ty metro cars
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> i hope you're not driving...
<rick_h_> nope
<rick_h_> thus metro cars :)
<gamerchick02> good. didn't know that was a thing
<rick_h_> yea, did that a while ago and it's like $20 more than leaving my car at the airport for the week
<rick_h_> well, but only taking it one way down
<gamerchick02> that's nice
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> after having the one car's battery go dead while at the airport it's nice to not have to worry about it sitting there all week
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: where you going?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: vegas for work
<mrgoodcat> vegas.... for work....
<mrgoodcat> right....
<rick_h_> :)
<mrgoodcat> i'm not your wife
<mrgoodcat> why are you really going?
<mrgoodcat> lol
<rick_h_> heh, I'd show you my todo list but you might faint
<mrgoodcat> what is the main reason for going? some sort of con going on?
<rick_h_> the first slot in the schedule that I don't currently have to be in is on thurs :/ and that's space for talks that run out of their 30min slot
<rick_h_> work con :)
<mrgoodcat> canonical employees?
<rick_h_> once we release a new version of ubuntu, we've got to get together and plan out the next 6mo
<rick_h_> yea
<mrgoodcat> that's cool
<mrgoodcat> all of the employees? or just the US?
<rick_h_> yea, will be good to hang out with the team
<rick_h_> US, EU, AU, all over
<rick_h_> not all the employees though
<mrgoodcat> that's pretty awesome
<rick_h_> yea, always like sprints
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: hacking on bookie and ci. Will try to look at your docs stuff today sometime
<mrgoodcat> oh cool
 * rick_h_ actually pulls down the pr for offline-ness
<gamerchick02> nice!
<rick_h_> almost have automated bot landing working on CI...almost
<mrgoodcat> really not a whole hell of  a lot changed
<mrgoodcat> just organization
<mrgoodcat> bot landing?
<rick_h_> yea, still, needs to proof/etc
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/pull/440
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/NOp6DL - Improve tag suggestions for web ui users. by mitechie Â· Pull Request #440 Â· bookieio/Bookie Â· GitHub
<rick_h_> I tell the bot to :shipit:, the bot hits CI, CI passes the tess, and CI tells github to merge it
<mrgoodcat> cool :)
<mrgoodcat> are you completely cut out of the process?
<rick_h_> almost, I can qa, review, and then just tell it 'yep it's ready'
<rick_h_> and almost out of hte process
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> so you tell the bot to start doing its thing
<rick_h_> ugh, if I can get hg/pytest to work right
<rick_h_> wooo! https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/pull/440
<bookiebot> http://is.gd/NOp6DL - Improve tag suggestions for web ui users. by mitechie Â· Pull Request #440 Â· bookieio/Bookie Â· GitHub
<mrgoodcat> cool
<gamerchick02> abiword crashed? wtf?
<gamerchick02> also not sure how i like the menus in the title bars... hrm...
<gamerchick02> what does everyone else in here who's using unity?
<rick_h_> booooo
<rick_h_> thank you full batteries
<gamerchick02> uh yay for batteries?
<rick_h_> I guess
<rick_h_> as long as they hold out to get me there
<gamerchick02> hee
<gamerchick02> laptop battery or tablet?
<rick_h_> both, I'm willing to switch over once one dies
<rick_h_> laptop at the moment
<gamerchick02> cool
<gamerchick02> have you considered getting a keyboard for the tablet? and which one are you running? N7? (sorry i can't remember)
<rick_h_> I've got a BT keyboard for the N10
<rick_h_> yea, use it once in a while
<rick_h_> but doing bookie stuff so laptop it is
<gamerchick02> makes sense
<gamerchick02> i'm a bad linux user and got an ipad mini.
<gamerchick02> for the record, it's kind of awesome.
<rick_h_> heh, I love my N10
<rick_h_> but I'm a google person on my phone
<rick_h_> so shared apps/data/etc on phone/tablet is nice
<gamerchick02> yeah i know. i did too, but i'm kinda worried about support on the nexus stuff. plus i wanted a new tablet and N8 is not out yet.
<rick_h_> yea, true. I've been waiting for the new N10 to upgade
<rick_h_> though honestly, it gets the job done
<rick_h_> I use it 90% of the time for movies on the plane or while camping
<gamerchick02> nice.
<gamerchick02> how many hours of battery do you get?
<rick_h_> on the N10? I can normally go through two movies
<gamerchick02> the iPad mini retina is rated for like 10 of constant use
<rick_h_> and I carry a pair of 5k mha spare batteries to charge stuff
<gamerchick02> 5 hours then of constant use? nice.
<rick_h_> yea, at HD and such
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> do you rip your films or do you download them off the play store?
<rick_h_> yea, just offline'd from the play store
<rick_h_> I'm lazy
<gamerchick02> heh
<gamerchick02> no, you do it the easy way. you're efficient!
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> grumble grumble
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-20
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> good morning
<brousch> Wow, this coffee really is better
<brousch> I tried an over night cold brew. It lets a lot more subtle flavors survive
<ColonelPanic001> interesting
<ColonelPanic001> I'm thinking of getting a decent french press just to get rid of yet-another electical device taking up my valuable counterspace
<ColonelPanic001> and because I could make my own at work then (I can't drink much regular, or I get like Fry in that episode of futurama)
<ColonelPanic001> a little caffeine goes a very long way with me
<brousch> I have a french press. You still need to heat the water somehow
<brousch> Unless you cold brew overnight
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, I have an electric kettle at home and work for tea
<ColonelPanic001> so really it would mean I could make coffee almost like I make tea already anyway
<brousch> My press makes 3 cups, so I do it at home and bring it to work in a thermos
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, thought of that too, maybe
<ColonelPanic001> I don't drink a lot of coffee, but then that's partly to just avoid the caffeine. If I could make decent decaf like that, might be worth the bother
<brousch> I drink decaf
<brousch> You could easily make half-caf this way too
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<brousch> The hardest part of french press is figuring out how much grounds to use. Each batch of coffee is a little different
<brousch> So there's always a brew or 2 of too powerful/weak when you start a new bag
<_stink_> question
<_stink_> if the water is cold
<_stink_> is it really a 'brew' at all
<_stink_> and not just a 'soak'
<brousch> That's a better name for it
<_stink_> a less appetizing name :P
<_stink_> mmm, taste this soak i made
<brousch> cold soak
<brousch> Would you like a cup of cold soak?
<_stink_> oh yes please
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<rick_h_> I can haz coffee
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Are you back state-side?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, back last night
<rick_h_> yay
<cmaloney> woo woo!
<cmaloney> Everything go well
<cmaloney> ?
<rick_h_> now to catch up on the world
<rick_h_> ok, still have a job so that always makes for a good sprint :)
<cmaloney> Kind of like the Christmas party at my dad's old job
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> If you didn't tell the boss of the company where he could shove his bottles of wine it was considered a success.
<brousch> Hm, bonus from the cold brew. There is almost no sediment compared to usual
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-21
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> what is good about it?
<cmaloney> jrwren: one day closer to the heat-death of the universe?
<brousch> I didn't even have to use my AK
<jrwren> i'm bitchy because my home internet is wonky
<jrwren> anyone got a moto surfboard with comcast and can hit http://192.168.100.1/cmSignal.htm
<jrwren> and tell me your Downstream Power Level bonding values ?
<ColonelPanic001> GOOD MORNING MY NEIGHBORS
<cmaloney> jrwren: WOW, so no dice here.
<jrwren> cmaloney: I'd take wow values if its a cable modem.
<jrwren> i'd like to know Downstream Power Level for reference
<rick_h_> jrwren: what's on there? I don't have a surfboard but on business device but can see if there's anything else that's equiv?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Sent screenshot.
<jrwren> dBmV  values
<cmaloney> Yeah, I have an ARRIS modem
<jrwren> oh, I called. known issue they are working on it and its a 1pm resolved time.
<jrwren> I guess I'm glad they called.
<cmaloney> nice.
<jrwren> err, glad I called.
<jrwren> *grumble*
<jrwren> so weird.
<jrwren> this IRC is working
<jrwren> work IRC is working.
<jrwren> I could do ssome things for work
<jrwren> but, I can't open lean kit :(
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> ssh work?
<jrwren> gmail is intermitent
<rick_h_> e.g. can you tunnel through guimaas?
<jrwren> rick_h_: yes, I sshed to your house successfully :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: hrm. great question.
 * jrwren tries
<cmaloney> That'd be hilarious / sad that it's not the connection but some bullshit they're doing on non-encrypted traffic.
<cmaloney> (assuming IRC is using SASL)
<jrwren> WOW! that works.
<jrwren> which makes ZERO sense.
<rick_h_> jrwren: :/
<cmaloney> And my bullshit theory suddenly got plausible.
<jrwren> cmaloney: whoa, you may be right.
<jrwren> cmaloney: work irc is definitely encrypted.
<jrwren> cmaloney: but the weird part is that i couldn't establish new ssl connections
<jrwren> and it is somewhat localized. rick_h comcast odesn't have the problem :(
<cmaloney> Well, to be fair, I'm pretty sure rick_h_'s internet bits scare away any attempts to tamper with them
<Sponge> quick question: is this chat for any level ubuntu user?
<waldo323> Yes
<cmaloney> Sponge: Absolutely.
<greg-g> cmaloney: http://diffuser.fm/u2-songs-of-innocence-tool-opiate-record-store-day/
<cmaloney> That. Is... awesome. :)
<cmaloney> I can see why U2 fans feel shortchanged getting a Tool EP instead of their U2 album. They normally get four tools for the price of one .
<cmaloney> â Jeremy Allen (@jeres) April 19, 2015
<greg-g> :) :)
<cmaloney> Anyone else have their Diskstations suddenly go incommunicado after a while?
<brousch> diskstation?
<cmaloney> Synology
<greg-g> cmaloney: more details please :)
<jrwren> alright, this is really fucked. So I go to coffee shop, VPN home and my itunes playing from home server NAS is less choppy than it was at home. Maybe my wifi router is dying at home?
<greg-g> huh
<jrwren> weirdest network issues I've ever had.
<brousch> cmaloney: Actually my NAS has done that twice in the last year. I never did figure out why
<Sponge> SWEET
<_stink_> ..
<cscheib> jrwren: change your wifi channel? ensure there're no sources of interference, like microwaves... you'll probably have to get a wifi analyzer (there're a few trials) to figure out what part of the spectrum is most unused
<jrwren> cscheib: its 5Ghz shouldn't be interverence.
<rick_h_> cscheib: and it works better with a tunnel so not likely to be the wifi side
<cscheib> rick_h_: I mean his wifi at home.
<cscheib> unless the choppiness is occurring on wired at home, which would be odd
<rick_h_> my bad /me missed the update from the coffee shop
<jrwren> unsure about the choppiness in audio on wifi
<jrwren> but the crazy internet issues do occur on wired and wifi
<cscheib> jrwren: 5Ghz is still an unlicensed spectrum
<jrwren> sure
<jrwren> and in my neighborhood where the houses are reasonably far appart, there should be no bleed over in teh 5Ghz range
<cscheib> you may also need to enable (or disable) the wider channels
<jrwren> that said, I'll fire up a wlaninfo on my wifes windows laptop and see what I can see
<jrwren> the thing is, its worked wonderfully for a year until yesterday
<jrwren> so unless that AP is dying, no setting changed
<jrwren> or a enighbor really did bring up some new 5Ghz and is fucking with my signal. :(
<mrgoodcat>  my new favorite link shortener http://www.shadyurl.com/
<mrgoodcat> Don't just shorten your URL, make it suspicious and frightening.
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_>  <3 my team http://writing.drab-makyo.com/posts/tech/2015/04/21/done-vs-finished/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-22
<cmaloney> orn
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> good morning
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h_> not yet but there's hope
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Light, end of tunnel, and all that?
<rick_h_> it's CHC night, but of course!
<cmaloney> Yep, I got the customarial _stink_ isn't able to come notification. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<_stink_> just playing my part to make your week special
<_stink_> did i tell this chan that we are expecting kid #3?  july
<_stink_> i think i told cmaloney in meatspace
<_stink_> so yeah odds of CHC may decrease :P
<brousch> Just bring them all! (And congrats)
<cmaloney> _stink_: Teach your kids to code and you can have CHC at your house. :)
<_stink_> i hope!
<greg-g> _stink_: wow, 3!
<greg-g> rick_h_: add Canonical data: https://github.com/davedash/parental-leave
 * greg-g did https://github.com/davedash/parental-leave/pull/15
<greg-g> found via: https://medium.com/@davedash/my-paternity-leave-wasn-t-a-vacation-547ee9615d
<rick_h_> greg-g: interesting. I think it respects country requirements but will dbl check
<greg-g> so for non-CA residents: jack shit? :)
<greg-g> fed law is 12 weeks unpaid leave, but this is tracking paid leave
<greg-g> CA has a 6 week paid minimum law
<jrwren> zomg, i am moving to CA and having babies! (not really)
<greg-g> 6 weeks is shit
<greg-g> but sure
 * greg-g is a dirty commie
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> i only got 3weeks when Lilly was born :(
<jrwren> it waws a good 3 weeks.
<brousch> Too bad they will die from dehydration :(
<jrwren> I don't think it was pat leave either.
<jrwren> i used all my vaca for it.
<jrwren> then 3mo later changed to indie dev :)
<greg-g> yeah, that ain't what this is :), this tracks paid parental leave :)
<jrwren> that was the best. all the vaca I want!
<jrwren> billing hourly RULES
<jrwren> I don't think MI has paid parental leave
<cmaloney> Nah, we just leave the kids on the side of a hill and see if they can fend for themselves
<cmaloney> good for the Romans, good enough for us. :)
<greg-g> :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: hmm, so yea pretty consistent I guess across the regions http://paste.ubuntu.com/10866629/
<rick_h_> greg-g: one week paid, one week unpaid (or you can do holiday which one of my guys did this year)
<jrwren> greg-g: are you having moar babies?
<greg-g> we'll see :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: That sounds like you're leaning towards "yes"
<jrwren> congrats greg-g
<cmaloney> Things I've noticed: Asking folks if they are having another kid usually get answered in two ways: "we'll see" (yes) or "hell no, are you fucking kidding me?" (no)
<greg-g> heh, I'm actually at 50/50 personally
<greg-g> carrie is at 99:1
<rick_h_> greg-g: hah
<rick_h_> greg-g: we like to call that an unbalanced equation
<rick_h_> tipping over soon!
<cmaloney> 99:1 in favor or against?
<greg-g> in favor
<jrwren> greg-g: you better help her out with that :p
<greg-g> I guess
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> I just clarified ours: 2 week minimum, 6 weeks only for CA residents: https://github.com/davedash/parental-leave/compare/master...greggrossmeier:patch-2
<jrwren> 2week min? as in - you HAVE to take it.
<greg-g> no, as in you at least get 2 weeks, more if you live in CA
<brousch> Are you East Siders enjoying a blizzard today?
<jrwren> no
<rick_h_> not yet, later tonight maybe :)
<mrgoodcat> it was hailing this morning
<_stink_> i made the mistake of putting my tomato seedlings out :(
<_stink_> shrivel up and die.
<mrgoodcat> rip seedlings
<_stink_> sigh
<brousch> And you are having more kids?!
<brousch> Did you put them outside too?
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> i should go double check
<jrwren> _stink_: :(  always wait until may
<jrwren> _stink_: there is always a frost in april. This is MI
<_stink_> yeah stupid.
<_stink_> i got them in and under the grow lamp asap
<_stink_> but it may have been too late
<jrwren> oh! probably not then.
<jrwren> i'll bet they will live.
<_stink_> the peppers didn't look so sad
<_stink_> hope so
<_stink_> it was like 2.5 hours this morning, took t hem out when i left for kid dropoff without even thinking
<_stink_> "oh it's cold, derp"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-23
<cmaloney> sheesh
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> hey
<cmaloney> Yay Ubuntu 15.04 released!
<cmaloney> Release Party tomorrow at Penguicon
<cmaloney> be there or celebrate some other way
<greg-g> Debian releases on Saturday :)
<cmaloney> Exciting times
<greg-g> GET ALL THE NEW* SOFTWARE
<cmaloney> *?
<brousch> Is Penguicon here already?
<greg-g> well, the * is a nod to the joke about Debian releasing old software
<cmaloney> That's what I thought
<cmaloney> brousch: Today - Sunday.
<brousch> cmaloney: Grope a furry for me
<greg-g> In Penguicon, furry gropes you.
<cmaloney> With consent.
<greg-g> if you're wearign the right ribbon
<cmaloney> Remember, unless you wear the FCK... ribbon you're off-limits.
<cmaloney> And if you do, just ask nixternal what happens. :)
<greg-g> :) :)
<greg-g> oh richard
<cmaloney> I remember him being wide-eyed at the genie he let out of the bottle with that one
<cmaloney> and saying (paraphrased) "well, what did you expect?"
<jrwren> yay 15.04
<cmaloney> http://forums.getpebble.com/discussion/22081/apple-now-rejecting-apps-with-pebble-smartwatch-support
<jrwren> fukin apple.
<cmaloney> In other news: I'm once again renewing my boycott of Apple.
<jrwren> not me. Imma go buy their stuff.
<brousch> The gold one?
<jrwren> hells yes.
<jrwren> but a gold laptop, not a watch
<cmaloney> http://www.cultofmac.com/320141/apple-rejecting-ios-apps-that-support-the-pebble-watch/
<cmaloney> first comment
<jrwren> *eyeroll*
<brousch> Seems overblown at this point. It could even be Pebble enforcing a copyright or something
<jrwren> everything about apple, google, msft, amzn is overblown in the press these days.
<brousch> Isn't Cult of Mac a bunch of apple apologists?
<jrwren> isn't everyone?
<jrwren> ;]
<cmaloney> yes, yes, and yes.
<cscheib> jcastro: was that forgue in that JARVIS pic?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-24
<jcastro> cscheib, yes, yes it is.
<jrwren> you saw forgue?
<cscheib> jrwren: https://twitter.com/quarfot/status/591064617570291712
<jrwren> straight bourbon is REALLY good while smelling fresh ground coffee
<jrwren> yes, it was one of those days, and NOT at work. Work is a blessing compared to the rest of life right now.
<cscheib> https://mesosphere.com/blog/2015/04/23/apple-details-j-a-r-v-i-s-the-mesos-framework-that-runs-siri/
<jrwren> the fact that it is mesos makes me love apple less :p
<jrwren> ugh. HDFS *shudder*
<jrwren> we can do so much better as a species :)
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> DEMAND MORE!
<jrwren> cmaloney: favorite 1985 album release?
<cmaloney> mornoing
<cmaloney> jrwren: toss-up between PIL: album, Rush: Power Windows and Don Dorsey Bachbusters
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> jrwren: why did you ask? ;)
<jrwren> cmaloney: was having a review of 1985  music
<jrwren> some stupid kids said that music older than them sucks.
<jrwren> i set 'em straight
<jrwren> 1985 was no 1989 for sure, but still some great stuff in 85
<cmaloney> yeah, not a great year, but a good year
<cmaloney> i think there were more cd re-releases takong center stage
<cmaloney> ah, no, off by a few years
<cmaloney> sisters of mercy released first and last and alwasys
<cmaloney> though I think Floodland is a stronger album
<cmaloney> and Dead Milkmen released Big Lizard in my backyard
<jrwren> yeah i pointed out the sisters release.
<cmaloney> also: unless they weree born beforee Led Zeppelin and Rush they have nothing to stand on
<jrwren> I didn't point out the Dead Milkmen release :)
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> take it or leave it. ;)
<cmaloney> not my favorite bit fun nonetheless
<cmaloney> but
<jrwren> they were just being stupid kids.
<jrwren> but this old man (me) took it a bit to heart
<cmaloney> yeah and it workesd
<cmaloney> that's OK. their kids will disparage Dillinger Escape Plan and thery can go apoplectic on them too
<jrwren> ha!
<_stink_> i still have Dean's Dream and Nutrition on a playlist i listen to all the time :)
<jrwren> what is that?
<_stink_> two tracks from Big Lizard in my Backyard
<cscheib> fellow michiganders... any suggestions for a really good restaurant in Michigan outside of the east-side that would be worth a road trip for... trying to figure out something to do for my birthday so my gf stops asking
<cscheib> budget is fairly flexible, up to $100/person
<cscheib> trying to figure out someplace good I've never been to and normally wouldn't go to
<greg-g> good feels of the day: Due to the reorg, two of my team members (manual qa) moved to fully embedded/reporting to another manager. I asked them about our 1:1s and they both asked to keep them (but reduced frequency).
<brousch> cscheib: Toulous in Saugatuck is nice, and it's a nice little town to walk around.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-25
<jrwren> cscheib: Isalita in AA
<jrwren> although, I'd not call it "really good" in the white tablecloths and many garsons sense, the food is amazeballs
<cmaloney> Good morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-04-26
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<dzho> yes
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-25
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> 'sup?
<mrgoodcat> morning
<wolfger> cmaloney: Telegram?
<cmaloney> wolfger: Context?
<wolfger> You made a change to Michigan Team on the wiki?
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> gamerchick02 started up a Telegram chat
<cmaloney> It's some service that people who are on their phone a lot use. :)
<wolfger> I have no idea what that is
<wolfger> ah, ok
<cmaloney> She wanted to start it up, so she did. :)
<wolfger> a very FOSS concept!
<jrwren> yay!
<cmaloney> On very non-FOSS software. :)
<cmaloney> but that's a nother topid
<cmaloney> topic
<jrwren> telegram is nice. i wish it were a bit more open source, but its nicer than others.
<jrwren> cmaloney: exactly.
<jrwren> cmaloney: could be worse, it could be slack ;]
<cmaloney> PyOhio moved to slack
<wolfger> What's wrong with Slackware?
<cmaloney> I don't mind slack, but it has an "always on" problem.
<jrwren> slack is a stupid web chat. slackware is a linux distro. nothing wrong with slackware other than its not ubuntu
<cmaloney> jrwren: And Gartner...
<cmaloney> (still looking for something nice to say)
<jrwren> cmaloney: the only nice thing I can say is: it was a good keynote
<jrwren> oh, I can also say that Strength Finder 2.0 is fun.
<cmaloney> ?
<jrwren> its a book... a book that comes with a test, and it is fun to get results, but the test is only good for 1 book copy
<jrwren> so its a book sales scam because its less useful to lend the book or give the used book or check out as library book
<cmaloney> So it's a personality test?
<cmaloney> Discover your Top 5 Strengths or buy your Full 34 report.
<cmaloney> Discover strengths today Â· Lead with your strengths
<jrwren> right
<jrwren> like I said, its fun.
<jrwren> not particularly valuable or useful
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Sounds about as accurate as a horoscope
<jrwren> well, slightly more so.
<cmaloney> "You are a natural leader, but you spend too much time on the internet"
<cmaloney> "Focus on your key principles rather than your vague enfatuations"
<cmaloney> "$5 please"
<jrwren> I think its $40
<cmaloney> I'm starting my business
<jrwren> because its free with purchase of hte book
<cmaloney> Using a specially crafted algorithm (3d6) to give people personalized strength, intellegence, wisdom, dexterity, constitution, and charisma readings.
<jrwren> yup
<cmaloney> Maybe I could go 4d6, drop the lowest for an extra $5.
 * cmaloney needs to come up with some snake-oil to sell
<jrwren> me too
<jrwren> but that doesnt' sound fun.
<jrwren> need to come up with something fun to sell.
<cmaloney> Fun is hard
<cmaloney> scamming people is easier.
<jrwren> i think scamming people is hard.
<cmaloney> Not in the business world
<cmaloney> These are the same folks that spend $400 on a putter to shave off a stroke.
<cmaloney> and $500 on a driver to have 10 yards.
<cmaloney> shave
<cmaloney> s/shave/increase their shitty stroke/
<jrwren> ah, so you want to sell to the Apple Watch Edition buyers.
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> Exactly
<cmaloney> Anyone who wants to spend $10K on a piece of gold-plated electronics is my target audience
<jrwren> i don't understand their values well enough to sell to them.
<cmaloney> I'm not looking for Suzy Sufficient or Johnny Goodenuff; I want Kanye West.
<cmaloney> I want the dude that spends $10K on a tube amp
<cmaloney> More importantly I want toe dude who sspends $10K on ferrite cores to put in their listening room
<jrwren> lol
<Scary_Guy> Telegram has security issues though, I've switched to Silence (Formerly #SMSSecure )
<cmaloney> Sadly I think most of these have flaws that have yet to be exposed
<cmaloney> The most obvious is having their data stored in a data center.
<Scary_Guy> yeah, that's why I like Silence.  you do a key exchange and there is no central server
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-26
<jrwren> signal is pretty cool.
<Scary_Guy> jrwren, yeah but it's linked to the play store, which I don't have and won't support.  fuck google/alphabet
<jrwren> you can't get signal outside of play store?  really?  huh.
<Scary_Guy> Yeah, people tried to get it on F-Droid and pissed Moxie off.  Here's a prety good rundown https://f-droid.org/forums/topic/redphone-and-textsecure/
<Scary_Guy> Silence/SMSSecure is a fork of Singal/TextSecure before they required play services and they just kind of went their own way.  Now Singal doesn't even use SMS AFAIK
<Scary_Guy> I get that, but everyone I talk to uses SMS so I need somthing that everyone can use.  The key system is annoying but better than nothing
<jrwren> well, that is the difficulty of security right?
<jrwren> the lowest common denominator is insecure
<Scary_Guy> how so?  I always thought security through obscurity wasn't really secure either
<Scary_Guy> as far as SMS goes it's insecure by design though
<jrwren> you said you need something that everyone can use.
<jrwren> you defined LCD. I pointed that out.
<jrwren> given that requirement, you will always use something insecure.
<Scary_Guy> I suppose, unless the phone companies implement better standards for SMS
<Scary_Guy> https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/11493/how-hard-is-it-to-intercept-sms-two-factor-authentication
<Scary_Guy> my big thing is I don't want to rely on the phone company for security either though since they have access to everything
<ColonelPanic001> anyone happen to know of a non-crap free oracle client? 0xDBE was nice but isn't free anymore, and SQLDeveloper is kind of... well, I don't care for it.
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: I used to compile perl bindings and use bash and a perl script for my oracle queries. Not joking.
<ColonelPanic001> nah, that's not unreasonably really, considering
<ColonelPanic001> https://www.jetbrains.com/datagrip/
<ColonelPanic001> this looks nice, and the betas I used were very nice, but not free, and I don't think I'd have an easy time getting my boss to pay for it, so meh
<ColonelPanic001> I mean, SQLDeveloper works well enough that it's not like I don't have a client, it's just... ugh
<ColonelPanic001> stupid ethics. It's free for students and teachers. I have a .edu email, but I'm neither of those.
<_stink_> i ended up just using sqlplus
<_stink_> but i know you like an IDE
<ColonelPanic001> why the hell can something as common as oracle have such shit for clients?
<ColonelPanic001> I would have thought it'd at least have something like MySQL Workbench or something
<widox> ColonelPanic001: haha, Oracle tools suck all around
<ColonelPanic001> they do :\
<widox> I use sqldev / sqlplus
<widox> sqldev freezes up at least once per day
<ColonelPanic001> every 6 months or so I do this cycle of acceptance and eventually coming back to "well maybe if I just ask around again someone found something"
<ColonelPanic001> so sometime in the fall expect this again :\
<widox> :)
<ColonelPanic001> fwiw Datagrip there, I liked.
<ColonelPanic001> just not $200 liked
<ColonelPanic001> if it were that or nothing I'd ask my boss about it, but meh
<widox> ColonelPanic001: ah, someone on my team was using that for a bit (maybe it was a trial?) and it seemed pretty interesting
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, I just used the trial
<widox> didn't realize it was $200 though
<ColonelPanic001> it was called 0xDBE then
<ColonelPanic001> and yeah, I liked it
<ColonelPanic001> still bloaty crappy java, but nice
<widox> ColonelPanic001: not GUI, but have you tried sqlcl? http://www.thatjeffsmith.com/archive/2016/04/new-sqlcl-available-for-download/
<widox> supposed to be a more user friendly sqlplus
<ColonelPanic001> never heard about it, I'll poke at that
<ColonelPanic001> thank you
<widox> ColonelPanic001: yw. lmk if you try it, I haven't gotten around to it yet
<ColonelPanic001> sure thing
<ColonelPanic001> it's not bad
<ColonelPanic001> I am a noob with oracle, but in as much as it is something I can do "sql me@PROD" and then just do "select * from things;", nice
<ColonelPanic001> still playing around a little though
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-27
<gamerchick02> guess who just installed ubuntu mate! :)
<ayrie> you?!
<gamerchick02> yes!
<gamerchick02> and i'm really liking it
<gamerchick02> :-D
<ayrie> nice :)
 * ayrie is on debian because her linux box is an ancient netbook
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> it's great
<gamerchick02> is it just me or does mate seem faster than unity?
<gamerchick02> ayrie, debian is cool. my linux box is an XPS13 dev edition which i lovve
<gamerchick02> *love. i can't type. must be tired or something haha
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Ah, you got the XPS 13 dev edition?
<cmaloney> JoDee got the 15" version
<gamerchick02> cmalony i'm still rocking the one rick_h_ sold me
<gamerchick02> i've not bought a new one. don't need to, since it's running like a dang dream
<cmaloney> Nice!
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> the dream is good, except i can't justify a new laptop purchase. which is fine. i don't need one. the new macbook looks hella nice tho
<gamerchick02> but i'm liking my "old friend" keyboard shortcuts (cntl-alt-arrow to change desktops, etc)
<gamerchick02> unity doesn't seem to do that which is annoying at best
<waf> http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0426/c90000-9049431.html
<waf> oops, wrong channel. still an interesting story, though
<cmaloney> ahoy
<_stink_> hey
<Scary_Guy> waf, it's a fucking Dalek
<Scary_Guy> I want to see it programmed to screwm EXTERMINATE for fun
<cmaloney> They'd have to give Terry Nation credit though
<cmaloney> "Exterminate! Exterminate! Daleks created by Terry Nation! Exterminate!"
<mrgoodcat> morning
<Scary_Guy> lol
<mrgoodcat> hey for anybody interested, the OU is hosting RMS on may 4th
<mrgoodcat> the OU computer club that is
<mrgoodcat> cyber ou
<cmaloney> That's awesome!
<cmaloney> As in Oakland University?
<mrgoodcat> yes
<mrgoodcat> hang on i'll find a link
<mrgoodcat> https://orgsync.com/97903/events/1458980/occurrences/3306376
<mrgoodcat> i love that registration is anonymous
<mrgoodcat> that's so very RMS
<cmaloney> Hah, totally
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001: --^
<ColonelPanic001> WHAT
<ColonelPanic001> I've always wanted to see root mean square
<mrgoodcat> VPP/SQRT(2) is coming
<ColonelPanic001> seriously though I may go to this
<ColonelPanic001> I wonder if the anon reg was a condition from RMS
<ColonelPanic001> seems like something he'd do
<ColonelPanic001> might go to that
<ColonelPanic001> as much as I hate doing things and seeing people
<ColonelPanic001> it's rm f'ing s.
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> i'll be there
<ColonelPanic001> Damn, right afte Penguicon. I'm going to have to owe my wife a favor if I can convince her of this one.
<ColonelPanic001> "so a couple days after leaving you with the 1.5yr old kid all weekend... I'd like to be gone all day on Wednesday..."
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> do you live far?
<ColonelPanic001> far enough. Damn northerners
<ColonelPanic001> Work in Detroit (40 minutes, sayeth Google Maps), live in Downriver
<mrgoodcat> so sort of the opposite direction from home when you leave work
<ColonelPanic001> and twice as far
<ColonelPanic001> at least
<cmaloney> Hey, and then you can hit our CHC meeting afterward? :)
<tony-smlr> cmaloney, I found a website and thought it was yours at first but must be a cousin?  http://asmaloney.com/
<cmaloney> Not me, or a direct relationship
<cmaloney> THat said I think I have a metric-fuckton of second and third cousins.
<cmaloney> tony-smlr: ^
<tony-smlr> haha  thats good
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: is it the same night? maybe.
<cmaloney> yeah
<cmaloney> http://onethingwell.org/post/143485270701/franz <- eagerly awaiting the chat singularity
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-28
<bananahands> JupiterBroadcasting
<cmaloney> That's pretty random
<bananahands> wrong window.
<cmaloney> ;)
<mrgoodcat> morning
<wolfger> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<mrgoodcat> the chancellor of uc davis has been put on leave over her handling of the whole pepper spray thing apparently
<wolfger> paid administrative leave?
<cmaloney> are they trying to scrape up $175K to wipe her mistake from the internet?
<cmaloney> Maybe they should raise tuition to raise the money.
<mrgoodcat> i'm not sure if leave is paid or not. but the leave is just during the investigation
<mrgoodcat> i'm sure she'll end up with some other consequence
<mrgoodcat> hopefully they terminate her
<cmaloney> Damage is done, sadly
<cmaloney> That they tried to bury it on the net is the proverbial spray-topping.
<wolfger> I'm sure it's paid leave and I'm sure they'll find that she really wasn't involved.
<wolfger> after the spotlight fades
<wolfger> or perhaps they'll hang her as the scapegoat
<wolfger> probably give her a nice termination package, and she'll go somewhere else, richer for it.
<cmaloney> I sense cynicism that things will change.
<wolfger> bingo
<wolfger> read two news articles today about Prince. Both contained the exact same fact, but the spin was drastically different.
<mrgoodcat> about the percoset?
<mrgoodcat> percocet*
<wolfger> One said "Prescription painkillers were found in Prince's possession", the other: "Powerful opiates found in Prince's possession"
<wolfger> this is where cynicism comes from.
<wolfger> "News" never presents facts without painting some sort of picture or another, to instruct you how you should feel about it.
<mrgoodcat> both articles are attempting to do the same thing tho
<mrgoodcat> farm clicks
<wolfger> sure
<wolfger> they are milking the fact that people want to know how he died, and there's no official announcement yet. Time to start all the rumor mills.
<cmaloney> It's all story-telling.
<cmaloney> I can die from dihydrogen monodixe poisioning, or I can drink too much water.
<wolfger> so at the end of the day, the chancellor will be painted one way or the other, and however that is, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle
<cmaloney> We've become a culture where nuance is a dirty word
<wolfger> but I think she's going to come out of it just fine, because people that high on the food chain always seem to.
<wolfger> If she was a janitor, she'd be hosed. Already "let go", no compensation.
<cmaloney> where understanding both sides takes too long, and the best we can hope for is finding someone we mostly agree with
<cmaloney> wolfger: Oh totally
<cmaloney> That Hastert isn't currently rotting in jail is a testament to the two-power system
<cmaloney> vis a vis someone who allegedly had child porn on their computer getting locked up before all of the facts are in place.
<wolfger> This is why we need Trump to make 'Murica great again....
<cmaloney> Yeah, that'll work
<wolfger> xD
<wolfger> <--troll
<cmaloney> only if we can sell The USA to The Trump USA Inc and fold the old USA into a shell company that we can sell off to pay for the acquisition costs.
<wolfger> sadly, it looks like Bernie will not be in the election, so I probably just won't vote. My conscience forbids me from voting for either Hillary or The Donald.
<_stink_> i just write in my wife for president
<cmaloney> I don't want to believe in conspiracies, but part of me wonders if Trump's candidacy is to ensure Hillary makes it in
<_stink_> she says she doesn't want the job
<cmaloney> She's clearly not insane then
<wolfger> I used to think that Trump was a guaranteed Democrat win, regardless of who the candidate was, but now I'm not sure.
<cmaloney> (your wife, not HC)
<wolfger> _stink_: you have an intelligent wife
<wolfger> I used to be dumb enough to think I wanted to be PotUS...
<cmaloney> Well, we couldn't afford it
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2016/04/28/learning-challenge:-6502-assembly-language/
<brousch> I'll finally be dipping my toe into development at work. However it will be in Android, not Python
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-29
<cmaloney> brousch: Java?
<dzho> Dalvik!
<brousch> Yeah
<nodoubleg> hey, who's all going to Penguicon?
<mrgoodcat> hi there
<mrgoodcat> i suspect at least cmaloney will be going and ColonelPanic is going as well
<mrgoodcat> not sure about anybody else
<nodoubleg> k. There's the release party there. I'll at least be bringing some ubuntu stickers, pens, and pins.
<cmaloney> I'll be there
<cmaloney> Ah,  cool
<cmaloney> I'll be bringing stickers and lanyards
<cmaloney> and I got some ribbons to give out to the first 25 folks who show up.
<nodoubleg> cmaloney: ooh!
<jrwren> is it today?
<mrgoodcat> dropbox launches a project called infinite that duplicates the functionality of infinit.sh, infinit makes a fake announcement for project dropboxe which does the exact same thing. the press releases have almost the same wording
<mrgoodcat> so much saltiness here i can taste it in the air
<jrwren> lol
<mrgoodcat> http://blog.infinit.one/infinit-announces-project-dropboxe/
<mrgoodcat> https://blogs.dropbox.com/business/2016/04/announcing-project-infinite/
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yep, at 8pm
<mrgoodcat> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_fGAzchSQPPbTBRdTZVTTFmMTg
<rick_h_> howdy
<gamerchick02> hi rick_h_
<rick_h_> howdy gamerchick02
<gamerchick02> rocking ubuntu mate on the xps 13. love it.
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> well, rocking windows right now on the desktop. listening to the bugcast
<rick_h_> coolness
<gamerchick02> very. i'm addicted to the bugcast. :)
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> hello from pcon
<mrgoodcat> that feel when an overly zealous sql query locks up a server for 5 minutes and everybody is wondering what is happening
<mrgoodcat> nobody knows it was me
<cscheib> this is why I don't give my data analysts direct access to things without extreme hesitation
<cscheib> they always claim they won't affect production... until they do
<cscheib> (that I don't have a replica is a separate issue)
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i'm not a data analyst
<mrgoodcat> and this isn't production
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> locking all the tables ftw
<mrgoodcat> not locking tables (although that too)
<mrgoodcat> cpu and memory consumption at 100%
<cmaloney> woo woo
<mrgoodcat> i mean people's ssh sessions were timing out and such
<mrgoodcat> haha
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: wow
<rick_h_> select * from x, y, z on x.id=y.id and order by z.id :P
<_stink_> hah
<rick_h_> ls
<rick_h_> hmm, tmux gone funky on me
<jrwren_> hrm... what SQL engine? good ones have limits that prevent users from doing that.
<rick_h_> jrwren_: I've done that in pgsql before. I had a query in bookie that sqlite took fine but hung pgsql to no end doing a 10min run
<jrwren_> rick_h_: yuk.
<jrwren_> rick_h_: do you recall the nature of it? was it cross product like you just wrote?
<rick_h_> jrwren_: yea, it was about finding bookmarks based on tags with a couple of joins and such
<rick_h_> jrwren_: just happened that sqlite and mysql liked it and ran it fine
<rick_h_> but in pgsql it freaked without some additional indexes
<jrwren_> yeah, postgresql is excellent like that. for production, enable the flag that doesn't allow any unindexed queries :p
<jrwren_> and use very low per default statement_timeout and lock_timeout
<mrgoodcat> gamerchick02: is the telegram just for announcements or is it meant to be a chat room? i can't send to it but i just got a message that i assume you sent
<jrwren_> so when you accidentally run that crazy cross product the DB saves you from yourself. ;]
<gamerchick02> a chat room
<gamerchick02> you can't send? odd
<mrgoodcat> yea i can't chat
<mrgoodcat> so its more of a listen room
<gamerchick02> what's your telegram username
<jrwren_> its like setting ulimit/RLIMIT for memory and nprocs. we have the tools to protect ourselves, we just rarely do.
<mrgoodcat> dyladan
<gamerchick02> i can't find you on telegram
<gamerchick02> odd
<mrgoodcat> gamerchick02: also there is a small megaphone icon next to the chat. idk if you put that there or if its relevant or anything but its not by my other ones
<gamerchick02> hrm ok
<mrgoodcat> oh i don't have a username apparently
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> hang on
<mrgoodcat> now its dyladan
<jrwren_> i think the megaphone is because the channel is locked or something
<mrgoodcat> you're the first person that has tried to contact me on telegram that didn't just have my phone number. i didn't even know usernames was a thing
<jrwren_> like its announce only.
<jrwren_> becuase the messages show as coming from ubuntu-us-mi
<gamerchick02> https://telegram.me/joinchat/CuS4wwcBU1Rj_Pn5hf9i5g
<gamerchick02> got a group started
<jrwren_> i wonder if telegram channels are broadcast only, and we really wanted telegram groups.
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> sorry bout that
<gamerchick02> please join the group!!!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-04-30
<jrwren_> living is learning.
<jrwren_> I had no idea.
<gamerchick02> https://telegram.me/ubuntuusmi has been moved to https://telegram.me/joinchat/CuS4wwcBU1Rj_Pn5hf9i5g
<jrwren_> yay!
<gamerchick02> please join the GROUP and not the CHANNEL
<gamerchick02> my mistake
<gamerchick02> please don't forget about the telegram group: https://telegram.me/joinchat/CuS4wwcBU1Rj_Pn5hf9i5g
<gamerchick02> and! we can send announcements to the telegram channel: https://telegram.me/ubuntuusmi
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-01
<tony-smlr> We are getting ready to go live!  SMLR E18791/192 (5/1/2016) Video: http://youtu.be/QUPv90EI08M
<cmaloney> GOod morning
<tony-smlr> good morning cmaloney
<tony-smlr> SMLR E18791/192 (5/1/2016) Video: http://youtu.be/QUPv90EI08M
<tony-smlr> we are in the Baldwin room on the second floor
<cmaloney> I'm barely up atm. :)
<cmaloney> waiting on folks to get some stuff out of our room
<cmaloney> though this is the first time I've ever been up for your show on Sunday. :)
<rick_h_> lol go go go
<cmaloney> streaming online
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-24
<gamerchick02> hope you feel better soon
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Thank you.
<gamerchick02> :) you're welcome
<gamerchick02> good news: i got budgie working. had to turn off legacy boot or whatever on my laptop. forgot about that lol
<cmaloney> yay?
<rick_h> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> morning
<shakes808> morning
<shakes808> so, cmaloney, how is your monday?
<cmaloney> sinuses are assholes
<widox> morning
<widox> cmaloney: :-/
<cmaloney> eyeball is being an asshole
<widox> yay spring?
<_stink_> punch it?
<rick_h> lol "punch it" sure there you go
<shakes808> ... Hey cmaloney how did  you get that black eye?  cmaloney: Some asshole punch it!
<cmaloney> cute
<cmaloney> also had a dream where rick_h was wearing some really crazy jewelry
<rick_h> sweet, I need to bling it out
<cmaloney> hard to describe, but was some earrings that mostly covered the ears, chains and shit
<cmaloney> looked loke a cyborg
<cmaloney> was a good look. Recommended. :)
<shakes808> rick_h: https://media0.giphy.com/media/4eazcthHI9jIQ/giphy.gif
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-25
<cmaloney> J is done with her classes for the semester
<cmaloney> (save for the exams)
<cmaloney> she literally knows just a hair more about networking and databases as when she started these classes
<widox> derp
<cmaloney> No joke
<_stink_> :/
<jrwren> sad.
<jrwren> sad sad sad sad.
<jrwren> maybe I should run an online networking and databases course ;)
<cmaloney> jrwren: The "final presentation" worth 10% of their grade was terrible
<jrwren> what did she pay to take the course?  2500$ ?
<cmaloney> Was a project to set up a POS system for a business
<jrwren> ha!
<cmaloney> some people literally used something like ZoHo for their hotel
<jrwren> well, POS system is a pretty great example of database.
<cmaloney> JoDee's group actually used Access and set up the forms / database
<cmaloney> some groups didn't even have their own database
<cmaloney> (and one group, no joke, played an ad for Access in their presentation)
<jrwren> huh
<cmaloney> it was awful
<jrwren> lolz.
<cmaloney> and this was a 100 level Database class
<jrwren> did you go watch presentations?
<cmaloney> so no programming requirement
<jrwren> wtf?  a 100 level course?
<cmaloney> a-yep
<jrwren> what is the damn point of a 100 level DB course?
<cmaloney> This thing was terrible
<jrwren> there is no point!
<cmaloney> exactly
<cmaloney> Syllabus said they'd cover hadoop
<jrwren> I said the same thing when I first saw a 200 level DB course :p
<jrwren> rofl @ hadoop.
<cmaloney> prof said he hated OSS software so they didn't cover hadoop
<jrwren> holy shit.
<jrwren> i'd have dropped as soon as I heard that, and demanded a refund.
<cmaloney> They didn't even set up a SQL server for them to play around
<jrwren> universities suck.
<cmaloney> it's OCC. Unless you realize it within the first week you're fucked
<jrwren> man, 10-20yrs ago... i get it... admining a sql server for courses is hard... now... with cloud... make students run their own. so easy.
<cmaloney> Their teacher was a PhD in MIS from a diploma mill
<cmaloney> I don't think he knows what a database is other than a cylinder on a chart
<jrwren> I've never even heard of PhD in MIS
<jrwren> is his name Gary Null?
<cmaloney> No, but it might as well
<cmaloney> Dude didn't even lecture, he just read their book to them
<jrwren> bwahhahahaha.
<jrwren> in this day and age... i can't imagine.
<cmaloney> JoDee's currently taking the exam in the other room. She's literally using Google to answer the questions
<cmaloney> and that's OK
<cmaloney> encouraged even
<cmaloney> JoDee said I could probably teach this class and do a better job of it
<cmaloney> and she knows I'm not a patient person
<cmaloney> but I don't think I could do much worse
<cmaloney> So, to recap
<cmaloney> 2017:
<cmaloney> - Taught Access in a database course
<cmaloney> - Given an extensive tutorial on Access (15% of grade to complete, was not checked)
<cmaloney> - POS project (10% of grade) to folks who have never programmed before
<cmaloney> - Barely covered SQL in any great depth outside of tutorials
<cmaloney> - Threw ALL the relational terms at them at the beginning of the class
<cmaloney> - Had them diagram (using relational diagrams) 1 - 1, 1 - many, many - many relationships.
<cmaloney> - Didn't fucking mention a document database at all
<cmaloney> - Didn't mention any databases other than Access and MSSQL
<cmaloney> - Didn't touch Hadoop at all (Map? Reduce? Fuck that hippie shit)
<cmaloney> - Redshift? Kafka? Redis? Away with those hippie databases based on shitty OSS.
<cmaloney> For their project they could have used any database, but the computers in the lab wouldn't allow them to install shit
<cmaloney> so most folks chose access (or decided on being marketing arms for zoho / Microsoft)
<cmaloney> And (get this) some of those projects didn't even make their own databases
<cmaloney> IN A DATABASE CLASS
<cmaloney> Now, I may be one of those unwashed hippie Open Source loving freaks, but I would think in a database class that if the instructor says you're doing a POS system that you might need to ...
<cmaloney> ... make a database
<cmaloney> but that might be one too many bong-hits on the GNU Manifesto
<jrwren> i'm actually ENTIRELY ok with teh relational diagrams and not mentioning document database and not touching hadoop or any of that other shit you said.
<jrwren> "zomg, access isn't a database. excel is a database"
 * jrwren searches for that comic
<cmaloney> Oh, and "Access is free"because it's part of Office
<jrwren> http://wyorock.com/excelasadatabase.htm
<cmaloney> (whichyou can get a copy of as a student and somehow register)
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ugh
<cmaloney> I'll just take this screenshot and paste it into Word so I can attach it to my HTML mail.
<jrwren> :)
 * cmaloney cocks his gun
<cmaloney> The thing that bugs me the most is one of the other students in the class took it for the same reasons JoDee did (to better understand databases, including Hadoop)
<cmaloney> and now he's done with trying to be a well-rounded developer and is planning to just focus on web development
<cmaloney> If my options for becoming a more well rounded developer included this program I would just take BS classes on Udemy
<cmaloney> she got one wrong on her exam
<cmaloney> an exam that asked the optimum number of mappers
<cmaloney> for a database they never covered.
<_stink_> disgraceful.
<_stink_> the course
<_stink_> not JoDee :P
<cmaloney> Yeah, we agree that she has a homeopathic A
<cmaloney> problem is it counts as much as a regular A from somewhere that actually teaches
<cmaloney> And of course no evaluation
<cmaloney> so it would be on her to let folks know how terrible this class was and how backward the professor is
<cmaloney> but he's full-time faculty
<cmaloney> they hired him to shape their program
<cmaloney> She can't get a full-time job as a physics instructor, yet they hired someone who just happens to have a PhD in MIS
<cmaloney> (Oh, and their project? They got 100%!)
<cmaloney> (Pretty sure he didn't even look at the files)
<cmaloney> (Or the tutorial)
<cmaloney> (or any of their work)
<cmaloney> He's worse than a rubber stamp: people likely think they can "database" after leaving this course
<cmaloney> when all they have is a smattering of concepts and a false sense of knowledge
<cmaloney> DBA? More like Dunning Kreuger Administrator
<cmaloney> s/Kreuger/Kruger/
<cmaloney> But hey, I can't even pass proficiency tests in my field so what do I know?
<hpucks> PhD in MIS?  Oh lord.
<cmaloney> hpucks: yeah
<cmaloney> like a PhD in Burgerology
<cmaloney> though burgerology might be more useful
<shakes808> this is pretty neat ( for the non-artist ) http://i.imgur.com/NlkLS1T.gifv
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-26
<shakes808> morning
<jrwren> good morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> GOod morning
<shakes808> and here is something different
<shakes808> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbuluDBHpfQ
<jrwren> lol, art.
<shakes808> apparently there is a 2 hour version of that
<shakes808> :|
<jrwren> i do not want to watch it. I do want to know what it is, where it was performed, who wrote it, how much is improvised, and probably some ohter questions
<cmaloney> I want to know where they got their medical supplies and how I can get a cane that turns into a wind instrument
<jrwren> i'd guess it is custom made.
<jrwren> you know those artists, so creative!
<cmaloney> heh
<shakes808> haha, a lot of unanswered that will remain unanswered :) ;)
<cmaloney> All I have to say is if this is the sort of thing that gets you into a theater to watch performer then more power to you.
<cmaloney> I won't impede your progress one iota, especially not by taking up valuable seats.
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> yeah, don't read the comments. It seems many people have never seen modern dance.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I know my limits on modern dance
<cmaloney> much like Opera and most vocal music (choirs, musicals, etc)
<cmaloney> I just hope the guy with the tubes in front of him never trips, or he's going to have a very bad day
<shakes808> https://live.awsevents.com/nasa4k
<rick_h> booo not live yet
<shakes808> should be in about 4 mins
<shakes808> PDT not EST :)
<jrwren> it started. the audio is out of sync.
<jrwren> video delayed by a fractino of ssecond. ~150ms is my guess.
<greg-g> sync for me
<greg-g> sync'd
<jrwren> looks like it synced up.
<jrwren> was funny at first.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> what is NAB?
<greg-g> NAB Show is an annual trade show produced by the National Association of Broadcasters. It takes place in April at the Las Vegas Convention Center in Las Vegas, Nevada
<greg-g> Thanks wikipedia
<greg-g> ugh, I'm goign to close this, too much marketing bs for me
<greg-g> the fuck that little camera will help you probe deeper into the mysteries of space
<greg-g> marketing bs
<jrwren> yeah, pretty bad.
<jrwren> ooh.. it does look good.
<jrwren> i'm only on 2.5k display right now.
<jrwren> the delay is pretty cool.
<cmaloney> Blergh
<greg-g> public/private partnerships are all about ads, apparently :)
<rick_h> ugh
<rick_h> pretty picture
<jrwren> the intro is terrible. now that it is interview, it is fun to watch
<rick_h> took a sec to get pulling full bandwidth I guess
<cmaloney> So basically this is NASA acting as a commercial for 4K broadcasts
<jrwren> yes, I thought they got lots of money for it.
<rick_h> hopefully
<jrwren> i wonder if they are using h.265 :
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> That's why it's no fun to play hide and seek with scientists
<cmaloney> all you need to do is drop a handful of change in the room and they all come out of hiding
<rick_h> ouch
<rick_h> well, if only we valued progress like we think we do :P
<cmaloney> We value marketability
<rick_h> have you seen the bill nye show? I cringe!
<cmaloney> worst question a scientist can hear is "waht's the practical application of this"?
<cmaloney> rick_h: We're too old for that show
<rick_h> but I mean it's brutal
<cmaloney> Bill Nye was for JoDee's sister's generation
<rick_h> my wife's watched a couple more but I walked out through half of one
<jrwren> the new one? right?
<cmaloney> We tried the first episode. JoDee said "I do this for my Physical Science students"
<cmaloney> So it didn't have the same "whiz-bang" that it could have had
<jrwren> the old one is pretty funny to see now. It was on a b-broadcast channel a while back, 4.2, I think, and i watched some with the kiddo.
<cmaloney> and then they went into the skits and I was pretty much done
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, the new one
<jrwren> now I want to watch bill nye and see how bad it is.
<rick_h> jrwren: drink first :)
<jrwren> ha!
<cmaloney> again, it's not for our generation
<cmaloney> it's for the generation that grew up watching him
<rick_h> I pity the generation it is for
<cmaloney> Not everyone could have grown up with Mr. Wizard and his harsh but fair criticism of children
<jrwren> Mr. Wizard was fun!
<cmaloney> mr. Wizard was a dick
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> was he?
 * rick_h goes to get the juju show ready to go
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkJEt1UsUcs
<jrwren> lol, yeah.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-27
<shakes808> what would you suggest for a free cad type program?  Want to do some wood working projects and want to draw up plans
<cmaloney> Depends on what you want to do with those plans
<shakes808> build my plans :)
<shakes808> what do you mean?
<cmaloney> I mean are you looking just to do some back-of-the-envelope modeling, actual CAD, feed this into a machine?
<shakes808> ummm. back-of-the-envelope?
<cmaloney> https://brlcad.org/
<cmaloney> https://www.freecadweb.org/
<shakes808> thank you
<shakes808> I will check them out
<shakes808> which is one that is for a "non" cad person?
<cmaloney> Blender
<cmaloney> Fuck if I know. :)
<shakes808> haha
<cmaloney> https://github.com/solvespace/solvespace/tree/v2.3
<hpucks> huh.  lubuntu still comes with pidgin?
<hpucks> what year is it?
<cmaloney> There's still people who use Pidgin
<hpucks> Yeah, I kinda forgot about it
<jrwren> my wife still uses pidgin.
<jrwren> pidgin works adn works well.
<jrwren> and she prefers firefox and thunderbird... but... prefers it... on windows ;_;
<cmaloney> blergh
<cmaloney> Well they can't all be winners
<rick_h> shakes808: for woodworking that Google project is the best thing going. /Me forgets the name.
<shakes808> rick_h: sketchup?
<rick_h> shakes808: that's the one
<shakes808> so how do you make it work on ubuntu?  they have  a windows and mac installer but no generic linux.
<rick_h> shakes808: vm basically
<rick_h> shakes808: nothing I'd bear to use in Ubuntu unfortunately
<shakes808> gotcha
<rick_h> :(
<cmaloney> I thought Sketchup was abandoned?
<shakes808> looks like it is still  active
<shakes808> i guess i will have to install it on my windows partition.  :| trying to get away from windows :(
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-28
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> reminder: release party tonignt
<cmaloney> be there or wait a year
<jrwren> hrm. why don't we do october release parties? Just the convenience of PC?
<cmaloney> because then i have to do more work. ;)
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> we could if someone wanted to sort out the details
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> i'll have to remember and then decide in september if I want to plan something ;)
<cmaloney> rhat would be cool
<cmaloney> also pcon tends to hit the lts releases
<jrwren> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseSchedule  no artsy schedule up yet :(
<greg-g> jrwren: it's easy, pick a good bar in A2, say you'll be there, go, drink, that's it :)
<jrwren> exactly my thought.
<rick_h> ok, I want this for my wife's van. https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/28/bmws-plug-in-hybrid-530e-iperformance-will-get-wireless-charging/
<jrwren> wireless charging for a car? 3.2kW?  wow.
<rick_h> jrwren: exactly. No cord/plug on the wall. Just park and go
<greg-g> wireless power is crazy
<greg-g> I mean, when I think about it I understand it, but when I'm just on auto-pilot thinking it's like "YOU'RE GOING TO BURN DOWN THE WORLD!"
<rick_h> greg-g: well on a phone I was ok
<rick_h> greg-g: but on a car level...whoa
<greg-g> yeah, it's like licking a 9V battery versus a car battery
<rick_h> That does give me another nudge to want to do solar at home. Would be awesome to charge the van over solar though it's at work during the day so...oh well
<jrwren> i don't trust or believe in teh car think.
<rick_h> so close yet so far
<jrwren> that is a techcrunch article. its vapor.
<jrwren> i'll believe it when I see it :0
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> well at least it's got a real company behind it without someone that's on their 5th string of startups
<jrwren> that is what tesla power wall is for. store that solar, the move it to vehicle.
<greg-g> but yeah, I really want to learn more/buy some solar
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, was explaining that to my wife
<rick_h> though speaking of vaporware
<rick_h> I love it on my rv trailer
<rick_h> I need to get my wife past the inverter and it'll be complete
<greg-g> yeah, that's my first application, the RV
<rick_h> going to take her completely off grid this summer
<greg-g> w00t
<rick_h> found a place in the huron national forest up north to take it
<greg-g> boondocking ftw
<jrwren> cool.
<rick_h> was just emailing a park ranger yesterday making sure I know where to get the water for the tanks/etc
<rick_h> yea, if I can have a nice successsful boondocking weekend maybe I can convince her in investing in enabling more of it
<shakes808> rick_h: i work with a guy who lived in the Appalachian Mountains off grid, for the most part.  He has some expertise in that area and we talk about that kind of stuff a lot.  I too have been trying to get the wife on board with the solar, but it is just too damn expensive
<rick_h> yea, at some point I want to go with the li-ion batteries. That'll eat the budget.
<jrwren> i know I complain about go a lot, but the std library is just beautiful.  io.Pipe()  built in FTW
<greg-g> jrwren: jc<tab> rick_h: opinions on the UOS model of online summits. Someone is proposing it for the Wikimedia developer community and I'm not sure.
<greg-g> Does it turn out to be more one-way/lecture or is there actually good dialog and (almost) decision making?
<rick_h> greg-g: depends? It could be done well I think but I don't think we've done it well from our side in the server end
<jrwren> greg-g: its not as good as face to face, but it is better than nothing.
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> thanks both
<greg-g> do either of you know who I should ask for any "this is how we felt this thing is doing, effectiveness-wise, from Canonical's perspective"?
<greg-g> ...writeups.
<greg-g> For instance, we do a survey and report on our yearly summit
<greg-g> an IRC channel I should ask on Monday? :)
<jrwren> greg-g: ping mhall in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-server, maybe?
<greg-g> will do
<greg-g> thanks!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-04-30
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> for a little bit more at least
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h> cmaloney: how's pcon?
<rick_h> cmaloney: talks go well?
<cmaloney> rick_h: Yeah, they went really well
<cmaloney> PCon was quite good this time
<cmaloney> Didn't do a whole lot of talks, but had a great time
<rick_h> Awesome
<jrwren> did you meet scalzi?
<jrwren> or listen to him?
<cmaloney> I did not, sadly
<cmaloney> I really didn't do a whole lot of the talks.
<cmaloney> One of my friends tried to record part of it
<cmaloney> so will see how that turned out
<Zimdale> I swear we hit less panels each year.
<cmaloney> Same
<cmaloney> I hit less panels than I was hosting
<cmaloney> Hit the Javascript one, the books one (which was amazing), and part of the Women in Tech one
<cmaloney> Oh, and the Smithees
<cmaloney> so, apparently I'm full of shit. :)
<Zimdale> How was the js one?
<cmaloney> It was unstructured, but it turned into some good conversation
<Zimdale> Damn I like that kind.
<cmaloney> Naturally started with the "Why the fuck is it 2017 and we're using JavaScript for everything"
<Zimdale> That's what the tattoo one turned into and I though it ended up really good.
<cmaloney> Nice
<Zimdale> And yeah that's a pretty easy question to get some opposing opinions.
<cmaloney> Oh totes
<cmaloney> My biggest complaint is "yes, we know it sucks, but we have so much sunk cost into this"
<cmaloney> so doing anything better is a non-starter
<cmaloney> Though I'm sure some would argue that UNIX fits that model
<Zimdale> In too deep.
<Zimdale> I've seen a lot of "well we have js devs" a lot too.
<Zimdale> Probably because I'm a js dev
<cmaloney> Yeah, no worries there
<cmaloney> I understand the history. I'm just wondering why we keep using the glue when we know the fumes get everyone high
<Zimdale> Something something cool and hipster.
<Zimdale> My biggest guess is barrier of entry really.
<Zimdale> It's easy to learn with few real "rules" of development.
<cmaloney> Well, I think the biggest thing is in order to do anything cool on a web browser you have to talk JS to it
<cmaloney> There's no other way
<cmaloney> other than adding plugins or other shit
<cmaloney> It's like BASIC on the old micros. You can put whatever you want on it but eventually you'll get kicked back into BASIC
<cmaloney> or VI
<Zimdale> Yeah.
<Zimdale> Build my own web browser.
<Zimdale> With blackjack and hookers!
<cmaloney> As one does
<Zimdale> I'll build it in JavaScript. You'll have to do all your stylings in C
<cmaloney> hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-23
<waldo323> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Good morning
<greg-g> groan
<jrwren> ugh.
<rick_h_> monday happiness going around?
<jrwren> figures I travel for work and wake up with a soar throat on monday.
<rick_h_> doh
<brousch> Were you flying? Is that why it's soar?
<greg-g> brousch++
 * rick_h_ sees what brousch did there :P
<brousch> I don't know if he's being clever, or is just a bad speller!
<greg-g> spell check said it was OK :)
<brousch> bad vocabulator?
<jrwren> yeah man so sare it sore when I soar
<cmaloney> Playing Zaccaria Pinball with JoDee
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-24
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<Scary_Guy> morning
<Scary_Guy> jinx, you owe me a coke :p
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI2GVcjXXI8 (my obscure reference of the day)
<Scary_Guy> also anyone here use OPN Sense?   gotta say I'm absolutely loving it
<waldo323> is that a fork of pfsense?
<Scary_Guy> yep, it is
<waldo323> what are the big differences between pf and opn sense?
<jrwren> linux v. freebsd?
<waldo323> oh hmm i thought they were both based on freebsd 11
<Scary_Guy> they are
<Scary_Guy> OPN is based off of PF, which is based off of m0n0wall, which is based off of FreeBSD
<jrwren> see i have no idea.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-25
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> um...
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> Good day?
<Scary_Guy> lol, afternoon
<waldo323> good day
<waldo323> also, happy 18.04-release-eve
<greg-g> oh huh, cool
<waldo323> tomorrow is release day right?
<cmaloney> probably
<user__> no, not hard to figure out lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-26
<jrwren> greg-g: ever get straus yogurt?
<jrwren> i found some in SLC grocery and I saw it is from petoluma and ZOMG is it tangy!
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, straus is a good dairy here :)
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<waldo323> good morning
<waldo323> was I wrong about today being the release day for 18.04? I don't see mention of it at ubuntu.com
<rick_h_> I think it's supposed to be today
<rick_h_> did they announce a delay?
<waldo323> I don't see any announcement, I do see an announcement from a 3rd party which points to the downloads page which hasn't been updated yet.  so maybe it is scheduled to be released at some time today later than now
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> global company means as long as it's 26th somewhere lol
<waldo323> :)
<waldo323> works for me
<cmaloney> I still haven't put up the release party on the loco directory
 * cmaloney is a bad contact
<cmaloney> but I do have stuff for the release party so yay!
<waldo323> Michael W Lucas came to mug this month and gave a talk about ZFS and a secret project he worked on to create a real book with humor added for april 1 on the standard UNIX editor: ed
<waldo323> ZFS: https://youtu.be/x9A0dX2WqW8
<waldo323> discussion of how the Ed book came to be and a teaser intro: https://youtu.be/cnB_Ds8Q-q4
<dzho> oh, heh
<dzho> I was following a little bit about that book on the fediverse
<dzho> v. funny
<waldo323> yeah, I've read a little bit of the book and it had me chuckling so I look forward to reading the rest
<dzho> last I saw there was this whole schtick about doing an ed(1) conference
<waldo323> heh nice
<Scary_Guy> no one does a release party like OpenBSD :p
<Scary_Guy> the theme of this Ubuntu release should be Gnomes
<jrwren> add-apt-repository does -u by default now.  whooo hooo!
<waldo323> yeah i saw that :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-27
<cmaloney> Well, this is a proud day for an alum: https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/bishop-foley-high-school-president-removed-after-student-files-complaint-with-police
<Scary_Guy> of course it's a catholic highshool.  Also I didn't know it was in my city
<Scary_Guy> I just thought we had the two public ones
<jrwren> no details of the complaint.
<jrwren> I feel that the Archdiocese of Detroit does an above average job in matters of this regard.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-28
<cmaloney> Yeah, was more that we noticed a lot of commotion over there, and I'm an alum
<cmaloney> hoping it's nothing
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<Scary_Guy> hi
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> :
<cmaloney> :)
<Scary_Guy> afternoon
<greg-g> hola
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-04-29
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> cmaloney: I saw what I can only describe as an electronic prog rock band a week ago. They are french and called Jean Jean. You might like them.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Thanks! I'll check it out
<cmaloney> https://jeanjean.bandcamp.com/
<cmaloney> ?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> They opened for Carpenter Brut
<Scary_Guy> wait, when the hell did Carpenter Brut play?
<Scary_Guy> and where?
<jrwren> SLC
<jrwren> i was in SLC 1 week ago.
<jrwren> it was a great show. Catch 'em in Cleveland if you can.
<Scary_Guy> ooh, awesome
<Scary_Guy> I don't see a Cleveland date :/
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dAW-yH4GAo really digging the new album though :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-20
<Scary_Guy> So, quick question.  Say I put a binary file into /opt.  How might I make it so I can just type in to access it anywhere?
<Scary_Guy> Also, ncdu is neat, but dutree looks awesome too.
<cmaloney> PATH?
<cmaloney> Also I wouldn't put the bare file into opt. Usually it's /opt/program/bin/programname
<cmaloney> or make a link
<cmaloney> eg: zoom -> /opt/zoom/ZoomLauncher
<cmaloney> and put that in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin
<Scary_Guy> So, make a subfolder, got it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-21
<greg-g> We're good net citizens: https://isbgpsafeyet.com/
<Scary_Guy> Fun
<greg-g> heh: https://iscloudflaresafeyet.com/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-22
<jrwren> upgrade your openssl folks - https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv/20200421.txt
<cmaloney> Lovely
<cmaloney> I love the Ubuntu versioning on this. :(
<cmaloney> 1.1.1-1ubuntu2.1~18.04.5
<cmaloney> Thanks, folks.
<_stink_> hah
<jrwren> so... at work... we use clamav... and we call it directly in code... as in... our code should be GPL becuase clamav is GPL... I was going to bring it up... until I read clamav source... its (C) us.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Nice
<cmaloney> Apparently you get to have the exception. ;)
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> don't need to license it to yourself.
<Scary_Guy> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-23
<Scary_Guy> https://flipperzero.one/zero neat
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-24
<jrwren> happy 20.04
<jrwren> https://ubuntu.com/blog/ubuntu-20-04-lts-arrives
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> Release party tonight at Penguicon
<cmaloney> https://penguicon2020.sched.com/event/b3YP/virtual-ubuntu-2004-focal-fossa-release-party-byob
<jrwren> lots of good stuff in that blog post. I don't know what FIDO is. I'll have to investigate.
<jrwren> and I didn't know that WireGuard was in it and that it is being backported to 18.04
<cmaloney> Oh that's nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-25
<jrwren> groovy gorilla?!?
<cmaloney> Is that the next release name?
<jrwren> yup
<cmaloney> https://webkinznewz.ganzworld.com/kinzapedia/groovy-gorilla/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-04-26
<Scary_Guy> https://github.com/aristocratos/bashtop
<cmaloney> Eyah, I saw that.
<Scary_Guy> @cmaloney https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NnLQv4CZk
