#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-03-08
<Takyoji> Anyone favor a specific networked message queue system/protocol?
<Takyoji> Was looking at RabbitMQ and MemcacheQ
<Takyoji> HAAAH http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/03/08/004219/Ubisofts-Authentication-Servers-Go-Down
<mr_steve> heh
<mr_steve> Too bad no one warned them that could happen. Oh, wait...
<Takyoji> And then they'll pull some crap statement out of their ass against piracy to support the concept of their DRM. :P
<Takyoji> This game is just a pure example of DRM horror
<Takyoji> I'll surprised if they continue to rape further games with such DRM
<Takyoji> I'll be surprised*
<Takyoji> I'm looking at Ubisoft's forums and apparently it's quite flooded with people pissed off, and implying they're never buying from Ubisoft anymore, etc.
<Takyoji> May 4th, Day Against DRM; by defectivebydesign.org
<Takyoji> http://www.defectivebydesign.org/decade-in-drm
<Takyoji> http://trololololololololololo.com/ :D
<Takyoji> When are they ever going to make GRUB2 shiny?
<Takyoji> I think it's considerably the most "user unfriendly" thing in the Ubuntu stack right now; yes, it's very usable, but quite verbose with the details of the options and so forth (to a general user)
<Takyoji> and yay http://www.starryhope.com/linux/ubuntu/2010/ubuntu-lucid-makes-scanning-simple/
<Takyoji> I also wonder if Google Chrome will ever be in the Ubuntu repositories...
 * Takyoji tries to decide between AMQP and SNMP
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: "Chrome" can't be, as it's not FLOSS.
<Takyoji> However Chromium could be.
<tonyyarusso> right
<Takyoji> Yet neither is provided
<Takyoji> So then would that imply that Firefox is not FLOSS, and Iceweasel is? :P
<tonyyarusso> Uh, perhaps you should do your homework before asking such questions Takyoji :P
<tonyyarusso> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/c/chromium-browser/
<Takyoji> It's primarily the branding that sets the two examples apart, correct?
<tonyyarusso> yes
<Takyoji> But what about the poor confused souls? :P
<tonyyarusso> Too bad for them?
<tonyyarusso> We can't control trademark law.
<Takyoji> Then I guess I'll complain about Songbird. :P
<Takyoji> otherwise is there any specific date for the installfest at TIES yet?
<tonyyarusso> no
<Takyoji> Ooo, an octacore CPU
<ripps> Takyoji: if you want a shiny grub2, install the burg ppa. Very shiny indeed.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-03-09
<ripps> Hey, can some of you test out my new Ambiance Cold (edited Ambiance theme), I've had a couple positive comments, but it seems that I'm still gettin some people voting down and nobody is telling me why. http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=121118
<Takyoji> Anyone worked with SASL much at all?
<Takyoji> Holy crap, apparently Magento, an e-commerce solution, uses 221 different database tables to store it's information..
<Takyoji> There's even two tables that have all the same columns (and names), but just one datatype differs.
<Takyoji> In fact, there's actually 5 tables together like that..
<Takyoji> http://www.magentocommerce.com/?ACT=25&fid=40&aid=9563_38jYypduC0XKiAfzF4Zi&board_id=1
<Takyoji> What would be a sane method of locating all files that contain a specific string?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-03-10
<kermit> locate|grep string
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: I connect to Freenode with SASL now, but that's about it.
<tonyyarusso> kermit: uh, a) that's redundant, b) I don't think that's what he meant.
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: grep has a recursive option.
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> One question that I never feel that I'm absolute complete with is: How would you define open source to a person?
<Takyoji> absolutely complete with is*
<kermit> refer to blue prints
<kermit> blueprints
<Takyoji> The example I typically use is a cookie and a cookie recipe.
<kermit> recipe is good
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: depends on a) who the person is, and b) how much time you have
<Takyoji> Pretty much
<Takyoji> Eventually I just want to make a basic diagram (but nothing too extensive at all)
<kermit> how about.. "you know those electronics with the really weird screws noone has the right tools to unscrew?  that's the opposite of open source."
<h00k> kermit: I suppose that's pretty accurate
<Takyoji> I feel like such a nerd. xP
<Takyoji> I had a dream that I had ran an installfest locally.
<kermit> Takyoji: how about.. "you know those electronics with the really weird screws noone has the right tools to unscrew?  that's the opposite of open source."
<Takyoji> Ooo, that's a brilliant idea
<kermit> Takyoji: thanks
<h00k> is MN doing anything for the upcoming Global Jam?
<kermit> Takyoji: i like how it inspires a more emotional response, because a lot of people have actually tried to open such electronics and been frustrated
<Takyoji> When they even go off on their own tangent away from industry standards to have their own obscure screw set, and so forth
<Takyoji> How about the electronics with NO external screws? :P
<Takyoji> Now those are just a ball of fun (sarcasm implied)
<Takyoji> Where the casing is two plastic parts, and there's internal latches that hold it together
<kermit> one could argue that's for cheap assembly though
<mr_steve_> or plastic that's ultrasonically welded together
<Takyoji> heheh
<mr_steve> I've been harvesting components from old/broken electronics, and I end up using the sledgehammer to take things apart half the time
<Takyoji> heh
<Obsidian1723> I have a Cisco 2507 ($125) and a Catalyst 1900-24 ($50) for sale, if anyone is intererested.  ($150 for both) Local Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN only.)
<ripps> Holy ****, my Ambiance Cold got a blog mention: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/5-ubuntu-light-inspired-gtk-themes.html
<kermit> Obsidian1723: you forgot to spam #tclug
<Obsidian1723> kermit, paste it for me :D
<Obsidian1723> SCORE!! I just got 10 1U rackmount servers for free.
<kermit> wow!   did the truck have license plates? ;)
<Obsidian1723> heheheh
<Obsidian1723> \cart actually.
<Obsidian1723> Going to give them away free.
<kermit> i'll take one!
<Obsidian1723> what part of town ya in?
<kermit> northeast, close to downtown
<kermit> actually i don't know what i'd do with it...
<Obsidian1723> I need to be downtown tonight, yah, you can have one.
<kermit> unless its a short depth
<kermit> er no, no 1U in a short depth
<Obsidian1723> hieght
<Obsidian1723> depth is maybe 1.5 - 2 feet? like a large pizza box
<Obsidian1723> height is 1U = 1.75"
<kermit> oh that sounds awefully short!
<Obsidian1723> You know that Taco Bell on the corner of Cedar?
<Obsidian1723> by Whiskey Junction, there is that Taco Bell.
<kermit> hmm i need 16"
<Obsidian1723> deep?
<kermit> yeah
<kermit> about this shape http://cgi.ebay.com/Short-Depth-2U-Rackmount-Server-Chassis-Rack-Case-NEW_W0QQitemZ370337691382QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5639d8b6f6
<kermit> why are you giving away servers?
<Obsidian1723> why not?
<Obsidian1723> Not sure if they work or not, but I dont want to see them go into the heap.
<Obsidian1723> That one in the picture is like 3U tall, but this one is the same depth
<Obsidian1723> I didnt pay for them.
<kermit> i'm using a pentium 133 with 64MB of ram for my fileserver, that would be a nice upgrade if i can fit 4 drives in it
<Obsidian1723> Not in mine, no.
<Obsidian1723> in that pictures one, perhaps.
<Obsidian1723> like I say, if ya want one, cool. If not, cool.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-03-11
<Takyoji> Seems interesting: http://www.linux.com/news/featured-blogs/167-amanda-mcpherson/292902-can-you-design-a-better-linux-t-shirt-than-us
<Takyoji> otherwise someone should perhaps take an initiative of orchestrating a global jam somewhere in Minnesota
<h00k> we're doing one in Wisconsin, I think
<Takyoji> ahh
<h00k> I just sent a mailing out today: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-wi/2010-March/000119.html
<Takyoji> It
<Takyoji> It's just too bad that I'm not in the Twin Cities area*
<Takyoji> to host such; but would be able to attend one in the cities.
<h00k> I think ours will most likely be online
<h00k> because of proximity
<h00k> HOW COOL IS THIS http://store.linux.com/product_info.php?products_id=101
<Takyoji> heh
<kermit> linux is still seen as anti-establishment?
<kermit> i thought it was pretty established
<Takyoji> What formats are there for expressing metadata?
<Takyoji> EXIF, RDF, etc?
<h00k> exif
<Takyoji> Just trying to think of a reasonable way to index various files, and to have all metadata stored, and so forth.
<h00k> I don't know if fspot has this with pictures,
<h00k> I know pictures have exif data, I don't know about normal files
<Takyoji> EXIF is only for pictures, yes
<tonyyarusso> We had talked earlier about doing stuff with the Jam co-ordinating online.
<Takyoji> ahh
<tonyyarusso> h00k: the terrifying part is that the shirt actually makes sense.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: I know, which makes it even more awesome!
<Takyoji> Anyone know of the .ntr file extension?
<tonyyarusso> nope
<tonyyarusso> "Netrun Executable Text File"
<tonyyarusso> whatever that is
<kermit> is that what 'file' said?
<Takyoji> That's the same information I've found. My brother is going through files, and supposedly came across such
<tonyyarusso> kermit: that's what filext.com said
<kermit> try /usr/bin/file on the file
<kermit> anyone can type any extention, that will examine the content of the file.
<Takyoji> I've asked for a sample, for hopefully I'll get something
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-03-12
<Takyoji> Hmm; apparently there's a Twin Cities PHP user group, but appears very dead.
<Takyoji> Like; 5 years dead
<tonyyarusso> typical...
<tonyyarusso> Computers got all commonplace, and the Twin Cities users groups for Linux, PHP, Java, etc. died simultaneously.
<kermit> since the internet, i havent figured out how to meet people locally
<tonyyarusso> Ugh.  I hate init scripts that can fail without logging anything whatsoever.
<kermit> (previously, i did via BBSes)
<mr_steve> I miss when BBSs were still relevent
<Takyoji> such as phpBB3, or?
<kermit> Takyoji: what such as phpBB3?
<Takyoji> "mr_steve: I miss when BBSs were still relevent"
<kermit> i doubt any BBSes were written with php
<tonyyarusso> Was PHP even around early enough for that to happen?
<kermit> it "appeared in" 1995
<kermit> so, no
<Takyoji> Misunderstood "BBS"
<Takyoji> Was interpreting BBS as "forum"
<Takyoji> Anyone golf clapping for http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/ubuntu-software-centre-gets-brand-new.html?
<Takyoji> then again, still no checkboxes (which probably won't ever be added)
<mr_steve> Whoops, I wasn't paying attention there. I was talking about dial-up BBSes
<kermit> was anyone here on twinlink, troppus, or runestone?
<mr_steve> Nope. Bucket Brigade, Graveyard, and occasionally L'etoille Du Nord(sp?) and Hard Drive Cafe
<Takyoji> Kind of makes me headdesk when government files are in Microsoft Word format..
<Takyoji> http://broadband.gov/
<Obsidian1723> inefficeny at its finiest. what else woulkd you expect?
<Obsidian1723> Government to be ope nand free?
<Obsidian1723> Ogvernment does not solve problems, it susidizes them.
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Indeed.  This is why I submitted an open document formats resolution at my party caucus.
<tonyyarusso> it passed my precinct and the senate district whittling committee unanimously, so we'll be discussing it at the senate district convention tomorrow.
<Takyoji> Ooo
<kermit> tonyyarusso: very cool, thank you
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-03-13
 * Takyoji tries to decide between ORM and MVC
<Takyoji> Anyone testing Lucid still?
<Obsidian1723> not I.
<Obsidian1723> I may not upgrade to it.
<Takyoji> If only I knew a little more of various development paradigms
<ripps> I've been using Lucid since Alpha 1
<kermit> tonyyarusso: did you see the TED video about open formats?
<tonyyarusso> kermit: I don't think I did.
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: I have Lucid on a VM and a laptop.
<kermit> tonyyarusso: i don't know which one i saw, but these are related http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/tim_berners_lee_on_the_next_web.html http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/tim_berners_lee_the_year_open_data_went_worldwide.html
<Takyoji> Was just curious if anyone else was having the boot issue of a missing file or not; of which I've found the answer to
<kermit> tonyyarusso: do you do a lot of data mining? that's probably my strongest skill.
<kermit> (and i need a job)
<tonyyarusso> kermit: nope
<tonyyarusso> Right now for work I mostly do technical writing.
<kermit> tonyyarusso:  oh, i recall you talking about data formats a few times (kml, the .ntr..)
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, those would be from random things I try to do in my personal life :P
<tonyyarusso> The KML because I'm trying to put together a web site about hiking trails.
<Adremelech> does anyone here use hdmi on their computer?
<Adremelech> w/ audio?
 * Takyoji doesn't
<kermit> isn't HDMI a key step in turning your PC into a cable box?
<kermit> end to end DRM
<kermit> i get chills when i see the acronym
<Takyoji> To my understanding, yes
<tonyyarusso> That's true, but you can also use it for non-DRMd purposes.
<Takyoji> HDMI is patent-encumbered while DisplayPort isn't, correct? Or?
<tonyyarusso> No idea
 * tonyyarusso is still using D-SUB VGA connections
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: while I have you here, what's the status of a release event for MN South?
<Takyoji> I'm going to email some people right now about getting a location yet.
<tonyyarusso> Same question goes out to jenkinbr, exigraff, ripps, and h00k for NE, mr_steve for Metro West.
<kermit> Takyoji: i recall something making me like displayport a lot better, relating to IP
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: okay, keep us posted
<kermit> HDMI has CEC and royalties, DisplayPort doestn
<Adremelech> i could help out with metro west stuff, but i dont really have experience with such things
<tonyyarusso> Adremelech: None needed.
<Adremelech> what does it entail?
<tonyyarusso> Adremelech: A release event can be just about anything, from a social event at a restaurant to someone's house to an all-day installfest with speakers and the whole works.
<Adremelech> coolio
<tonyyarusso> organizing such a thing included choosing an event type, date, time, setting up a location, announcing the details on the web site and mailing list, possibly distributing flyers if you can, etc.
<tonyyarusso> But by far the biggest thing is just deciding you're going to do something and telling us what it is and when.
<tonyyarusso> Friday/Saturday/Sunday immediately following release (which happens on Thursday) is most common.
<Adremelech> well, if it is going o be an installfest, i could help installing, but with my limited schedule thats about it
<Adremelech> 80-100 hour work weeks suck :|
<tonyyarusso> last fall we had two in Minnesota.  One in St. Paul that was an installfest with a speaker from Canonical, and one that was actually in Superior, WI but drew from NE MN too that was a meetup for food & drinks at a restaurant.
<Adremelech> well, 40-50 technically
<tonyyarusso> It's the organizing that really needs work right now.
<tonyyarusso> I want to see 5 or more events of some kind in the state for Lucid.
<Adremelech> if someone could come up with some fliers, i could put them out on the counter at my work
<Adremelech> i get a fair amount of technology oriented people in my store
<tonyyarusso> If we get the date, time, & location decided within the next couple of weeks we can get flyers printed free.  But you have to organize the details to put on the flyers first.
<Adremelech> indeed
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: What's the release date?
<tonyyarusso> !lucid
<ubot3> Lucid Lynx is the codename for Ubuntu 10.04, due April 2010 - Lucid is NOT released and is NOT stable - Discussion and support only in #ubuntu+1
<tonyyarusso> gah, darn your database lag ubot3.
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: So we don't have an actual date yet?
<tonyyarusso> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
<tonyyarusso> Of course we do - it was set ages ago.
<sparklehistory> Ah, April 29
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: So we'd be looking at April 30 and May 1 and 2 for release party dates then?
<tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: as the ones that make the most sense, but that's not required.
<tonyyarusso> it can be June 19th if you want.
<sparklehistory> lol
<sparklehistory> Well that weekend is going to suck for me - exams start Monday, May 3.
<tonyyarusso> So study now instead of cramming.
<sparklehistory> Yeah, that always works better in theory than in practice
<tonyyarusso> The same can be said of cramming.
<sparklehistory> Frankly I prefer a mixture of both, I like to do my outlining and preparing study materials a few weeks before exams but it's important to review everything right before as well so it's fresh in my mind.
<Takyoji> I just learn it all once. :D
<Takyoji> of course, I'm merely in high school. :P
<sparklehistory> That's less practical when you have one exam that counts for 100% of your grade.
<tonyyarusso> but normal people don't have those.
<sparklehistory> But I do and therefore I have to studing accordingly.
<tonyyarusso> But you don't get to complain :)
<sparklehistory> Why not?
<tonyyarusso> because you're the one that chose to go to crazy school.
<sparklehistory> Fine, then you don't get to complain about the idiots in your classes because you chose to go to your school.
<kermit> which schools do you two go to?
<Takyoji> Heh: http://www.php.net/manual/en/control-structures.goto.php
<Takyoji> Apparently some complimentary xkcd comics in the PHP documentation. :P
<tonyyarusso> Metro State
<sparklehistory> I'm in law school.
<kermit> how generic of a name for a school
<tonyyarusso> Lucid's been kind of disappointing as a development release cycle so far - I haven't had it become unbootable ONCE!
<Takyoji> Today is my first day for such. :P
<Takyoji> Due to a file being renamed; and I had updated between the change of the file name, and tweaking the files that depend on it.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-03-14
<Takyoji> Bleh, I hate being indecisive. Use a framework, and potentially increase productivity, but sever all possible performance; or, use libraries like Zend, take more time on code, and have higher performing code.
<Takyoji> http://talks.php.net/show/drupal08/24 (until slide 32)
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-03-08
<tonyyarusso> h00k: so have you figured out what you're going to call your RSVP app and what to license it under yet?  ;)
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-03-09
<h00k> tonyyarusso: licensing: nope.
<tonyyarusso> I'm always kind of torn, because I like the aims of the GPL, but it's so. damn. long.
<tonyyarusso> This is especially true when I'm just writing some single-file script, which is shorter than the license, so that's silly.
 * tonyyarusso invites h00k to #ubuntu-trivia 
<dw87> anyone alive in here?
<ColinHarrington> nope
<h00k> oh hello
<h00k> greetings from Wisconsin
<sir_tyrion> GTFO MN only!
<sir_tyrion> jk
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-03-10
<Takyoji> Interesting video http://linuxologist.com/1general/why-open-source-makes-sense-scientifically-proven/
<Takyoji> Anyone happen to know what format Amazon uses for eBooks?
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Evil.
<Takyoji> Pure and sinister evil?
<Takyoji> DRM within the file format I assume?
<tonyyarusso> yup
<Takyoji> Just wish I could buy directly from the author, and not kill trees
<Jay-Cee> Fantastic video Takyoji
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-03-11
<Jay-Cee> Takyoji, will you be attending the release party April 30th?
<Takyoji> Location?
<Jay-Cee> in the cities, i think hopkins
<Takyoji> Perhaps
<Jay-Cee> from what i remember your located in faribault, i'm heading up from owatonna, if you want to hitch a ride
<Jay-Cee> just thought I would offer
<Takyoji> <Takyoji> I wonder what would be a reasonable means of having a series of sensors, go to an Arduino board, and have the output given over RS232 to a desktop.
<Takyoji> <Takyoji> Moreso, the part doing with sensors and the Arduino board.
<Takyoji> <Takyoji> Mainly, for a series of fish tanks, for simple analytics such as: temperature, water clarity/color, waterlevel, etc
<Takyoji> <Takyoji> Where all I can think of are thermoresistors for temperature, and a series of white LEDs with color filters, and photoconductor.
<Takyoji> <Takyoji> and everything of the above would be a matter of measuring resistance; I suppose. I'm relatively stupid with making something hardware-wise that's actually useful. xP
<tonyyarusso> RS232?  What century is this?
<tonyyarusso> But yes, you could certainly do this with Arduino, but heck if I know how.  -offtopic might.
<damian> So who else is thinking about moving away from gnome because of Unity and Gnome3?
<ColinHarrington> I think that unity will be an awesome default for the beginner crowd.  I'm not sold yet.  I have my Gnome desktop setup humming and going really well for my own development.
<ColinHarrington> I'm a little concerned that Unity isn't going to be as configurable as what I currently have.
<ColinHarrington> But we'll see
<ColinHarrington> but, I'm a power user and a developer, I have tons of stuff running on my machine all the time.
<rlaager> Is there an Ubuntu release that does not include "classic GNOME" yet? (I'm still on Lucid.) Until that happens, I'm not going to worry about it too much.
<tonyyarusso> rlaager: Nope, and it won't happen anytime soon.  Unity requires 3D acceleration support in the graphics driver, and many users do not have that.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-03-12
<Takyoji> Actually there's been recent changes in Unity to work on systems without 3D acceleration.
<Takyoji> Last I recall; within like 1-2 months ago
<ripps> unity-2d or unity-qt has been around for well over a month. I just don't know if it's in the ubuntu repos yet. It might just be in a PPA for now.
<Takyoji> I'll try installing 11.04 Alpha 3 in a moment
<Takyoji> on my laptop
<damian> I didn't get an answer last time: "So who else is thinking about moving away from gnome because of Unity and Gnome3?"
<Takyoji> Hmm, apparently the installer in 11.04 Alpha gives you the option of: erase entire harddrive and install; or, manually configure each partition's type/mountpoint/format/etc
<damian> BLARG?!?
<damian> Silly people breaking stuff :D
<Takyoji> otherwise Unity seems to work on my graphics acceleration-less laptop
<damian> I just realized something, I'm planning on switching to Linux Mint at their next release... I wont be a legitimate LoCo member anymore D:
<damian> Apparently I did get a reply when I initially asked about unity, problem was I didn't think to check the log
<damian> I'm rather surprised that my Ubuntu partition is only using 9.4GB,~2.5GB is electricsheep videos and a decompressed linux kernel that I have yet to play with. (The majority of my other stuff like downloads is on another partition)
<damian> I guess I could have put it at 20GB instead of hogging 40GB. That decision was probably influenced by how badly Windows utilizes space.
<damian> I'm gonna test out SLAX and Mint, seeya later
<tonyyarusso> Since when is there any overlap of users between SLAX and Mint?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-03-13
<damian> Greetings from Mint.
<damian> Aside from user customizations (eg panels setup and theme), the update manager is improved in that it tell you the total size of everything and you can sort things by name or size.
<damian> Everything else seems to be straight from Ubuntu. It seems to be mostly for the convenience of having some things in the first place instead of going out and getting them. (flash and libdvdcss2)
