#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-21
<brousch> it is sad that mine is still the best answer http://askubuntu.com/questions/31244/how-to-install-python-2-7
<brousch> jcastro: props on ubuntu stack exchange. i've been finding many more answers on there lately. it's much better than forums since the best answers are at the top instead of at the end
<tjagoda> Opinions on ATT+T-Mobile, anyone?
<rick_h_> booooo
<rick_h_> but makes sense, they use mostly the same tech, and both have failing 4g plans
<rick_h_> and everyone said tmo would be next iphone carrier
<rick_h_> but poor jcastro with his one carrier that does a discount if you own your own phone
<tjagoda> It makes much more sense than Sprint + Nextel
<tjagoda> I am actually in the middle of quoting new wireless for work here
<rick_h_> well, whenever one of these guys gets bought it makes sense
<tjagoda> I was looking at T-mo and ATT
<rick_h_> you're buying that spectrum that costs billions at auction
<rick_h_> yea, we do verizon at my work
<tjagoda> Sprint/Nextel made the least sense because they use incompatible networks
<tjagoda> even still, the nextel network is a subset that sprint devices can't utilize
<rick_h_> right, but they put out dual phones
<rick_h_> and took over their spectrum they had
<tjagoda> Which is stupid
<rick_h_> and bought their tech
<tjagoda> Which was old
<rick_h_> bought their way into a lot of business users
<rick_h_> which wasn't their core market when they started
<tjagoda> I'll give you that one
<rick_h_> it wasn't totally devoid of sense
<tjagoda> I would say 80% devoid
<rick_h_> it's not like they could afford to buy another carrier
<tjagoda> =P
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> but yea, the att-tmo thing makes sense from a lot of ways, but sucks that the anti-att could disappear
<tjagoda> Everybody expects them to get bought up by Verizon now
<rick_h_> sprint? I don't think they'd let it go through
<rick_h_> that's the big thing now, "there's compeitition in the mobile market"
<rick_h_> hard enough that tmo is going away
<tjagoda> but really?
<rick_h_> I don't think sprint could be allowed to go away as well
<tjagoda> Can sprint really compete when ATT and Verizon are now huge giants with superior coverage and tech?
<tjagoda> Sprint, the only non-iPhone non-Torch carrier?
<rick_h_> admit, was hoping they and tmo would get together, they've been the ones to compete on prices/speed
<rick_h_> psh, torch?
<rick_h_> they still make those?
<rick_h_> :P
<tjagoda> Torch is sexy in business
<rick_h_> we're a verizon place and I don't think there's 2 torches to put together
<rick_h_> so I guess maybe if you're running your own BB servers
<tjagoda> Blackberry Enterprise Server makes managing cellular devices a breeze, aye
<rick_h_> but not without the forcing of BB down their throats it's not a sexy thing
<tjagoda> Blackberry also has voice over wifi on their newest phones
<rick_h_> tmo had that :(
<tjagoda> It's blackberry technology
<rick_h_> I thought tmo had that on all their devices, some android ones had it
<rick_h_> was a pain because it only worked on tmo even for phones that were on other carriers
<tjagoda> T-mo are the only ones who support it so far
<rick_h_> http://www.dailywireless.org/2010/10/06/voice-over-wifi-for-t-mobile-android-phones/
<rick_h_> right
<tjagoda> But its cool because you can totally avoid buying a voice plan if you want
<rick_h_> anyway, with the way ATT's been, it's not one ship I'd want to be on
<rick_h_> glad I moved to verizon even if it means I get ripped over the coals for it
<rick_h_> and once that 4g mifi gets out, going to be tough not to throw more $$ at them
<rick_h_> we got in a mobile router to test out, had dual 4g usb devices on it for verizon
<rick_h_> man, so fast
<tjagoda> I see Verizon as the devil
<tjagoda> They are arrogant and huge
<tjagoda> Even moreso than the Death Star
<rick_h_> yea, that's originally why I left them and went ATT 7/8 or so years ago
<rick_h_> but I'm back because ATT is the new evil power
<rick_h_> talk about arrogant
<tjagoda> Dude
<rick_h_> "we don't need a good android phone for 4 years because we have the iphone"
<tjagoda> The verizon salesman I worked with literally said the following: "We are the most powerful wireless force in the universe, resistance is futile"
<rick_h_> "we don't need to upgrade our 4g because it's not like the iphone supports it"
<tjagoda> Those are totally valid statements unforunately
<rick_h_> hey, drew me back to them after leaving them with pure hate in my blood years ago
<tjagoda> I disagree with all of rick_h's hardware choices =P
<rick_h_> heh, I waiting long/hard for ATT to get an android phone
<snap-l> Remember when you had bandwidth to burn? You Will, and the company that will bring it to you? AT&T
<rick_h_> I liked my wireless speeds/etc where I'm at
<tjagoda> I don't care about Android
<rick_h_> heh, good for you :)
<rick_h_> some of us don't like to tether our phones or run BB servers
<tjagoda> is snap-l agreeing with me?
<tjagoda> If so, I am not used to this. =(
<rick_h_> I'm not sure on that one
<snap-l> tjagoda: AT&T's bandwidth caps are either one of two things
<rick_h_> yea, I've got to check out those new caps on my u-verse
<tjagoda> I don't expect them to last
<snap-l> 1) They're trying to get people to switch to U-Verse (since u-Verse isn't capped)
<rick_h_> they're pretty high, but my wife is liking the netflix
<rick_h_> no, it's capped, just 100gb higher
<rick_h_> 150 for dsl, 250 for uverse
<snap-l> 2) AT&T is a bunch of money-grubbing bastards that want to become the next iteration of the phone company
<snap-l> OK, well, then #2 it is
<tjagoda> The only thing caps are trying to do is stomp out netflix and support their TV/Cable model
<rick_h_> "only thing"
<tjagoda> The congestion crap is bullshit
<rick_h_> ATT, known for really building out that network
<tjagoda> they're trying to cover their profit model
<snap-l> tjagoda: Not from a certain point of view. ;)
<rick_h_> loved this one tweet I saw "Wait, ATT had 39 billion dollars and still didn't use it to up more cell towers?!!!!!!!"
<snap-l> Just that the congestion is Netflix. ;)
<tjagoda> Note that I was not defending the douchebaggery
<rick_h_> referring to the 39B spent on tmo
<snap-l> rick_h_: Cell towers are ugly. Nobody wants to live next to one
<snap-l> that's the big problem.
<tjagoda> lololol
<snap-l> I really hope A/L's little cell bricks take off
<tjagoda> In detroit they put WiMAX repeaters on phone poles
<tjagoda> Erh, Rochester*
<tjagoda> Because it's really easy to confuse Detroit with Rochester.
<tjagoda> -_-
<snap-l> Don't worry, if the emergency managers get their way, we'll all be one big happy Detroit.
<tjagoda> I live 30 miles North
<wolfger> You mean, "one big happy Amwayville"
<tjagoda> In a township
<tjagoda> With my own water supply
<tjagoda> so I think I am safe for the moment =(
<snap-l> Hey, since the rest of the nation doesn't know about the suburbs, we should just make it so there aren't any.
<snap-l> tjagoda: Not for long.
 * wolfger laughs and cries
<snap-l> everybody's broke
<wolfger> I've been waiting so long for the official Froyo release
<wolfger> and this weekend I got a text from AT&T telling me it's available, and giving me a link to go to, to get it
<tjagoda> My township provides essentially no services
<wolfger> and I just went there
<tjagoda> How can they be broke?
<wolfger> and "The page you requested is not available"
<tjagoda> Fire, Police, and tax collection
<rick_h_> poor wolfger
<rick_h_> root, install gingerbread
<tjagoda> No more BBerry updates for me
<tjagoda> =(
<rick_h_> why get excited for the latest 'froyo'
<tjagoda> The Tour is not BBOS 6 compatible
<tjagoda> Somebody told me the other day that the Blackberry is going to end up more open than Android
<tjagoda> I giggled, and then sighed because they'll probably be right. =p
<rick_h_> hmm, where've I seen that happen before
<rick_h_> oh that's right, every dying company ties to OS their stuff right before they fall into oblivion
<rick_h_> "if we open it up right before we die, the community will save us!"
<wolfger> LOL
<tjagoda> I don't think anybody could accuse RIM of opening up the OS
<tjagoda> Pretty sure he meant the other way around
<tjagoda> With Android slowly closing
<rick_h_> tjagoda: what's that I heard? BBM on multiple platforms?
<rick_h_> it's starting
<tjagoda> What?
<tjagoda> No
<tjagoda> They're trying to get BBM to cover more bodies
<tjagoda> and drag them into blackberry
<tjagoda> How could you read that as opening the platform?
<tjagoda> ABSURD
<rick_h_> because they're turning into a SaS company
<rick_h_> they can't compete on the hardware/OS level
<tjagoda> Disagree, love their hardware
<rick_h_> they're going to be a freaking layer like HTC Sense, or Motoblur soon enough
<rick_h_> k, see you at the end of 2012, see who's closer
<snap-l> So BB is going the way of the 3DO, then. :P
<tjagoda> In fact, many people love Blackberry hardware
<rick_h_> ok, sorry...OS
<tjagoda> the software has been the primary fault for most of it's life, yes =P
<rick_h_> but let's face it, the storm hasn't been a touch screen genie
<snap-l> tjagoda: These people who love the BB hardware... I do not think they are as numerous as you claim
<rick_h_> I guess I mean that their touch hardware/interface stuff hasn't kept up at all
<tjagoda> I would agree on the touch
<tjagoda> They don't even use the same league of technology on the storm series
<rick_h_> 90% of smartphones sold (non-BB) are black slab devices with touch interfaces as the primary one
<tjagoda> the Torch has better touch capability than anything previous
<rick_h_> the Droid Pro and palm pre being the exceptions
<tjagoda> I like the Torch because it's a synergy between touch interface and traditional blackberry interface
<tjagoda> there is no phone which I can more easily use one handed while driving than a tactile blackberry
<rick_h_> soon you'll see stuff like "HTC SuperPowers, now with BB Services for business"
<tjagoda> No way
<tjagoda> not ever in your life
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> tjagoda: RIM better do something soon
<brousch> you should not use a phone while driving
<rick_h_> it's their only way, software services baby
<snap-l> Either dilute the brand, or step it up a notch
<rick_h_> they can't even compete with consumers on price any more
<tjagoda> The Torch was their "catchup" device
<snap-l> either way, they're strangling themselves ala Palm
<tjagoda> It had not new advances
<tjagoda> just brought them within shouting distance of Android/iPhone
<rick_h_> heh, catch up? did it really 'catch up'?
<rick_h_> everything I saw says "nope"
<tjagoda> That's because you read Iloveandroid.com
<tjagoda> =P
<rick_h_> have you seen their dev market?
<rick_h_> ok, have fun, but someone here sounds like he's seriously in denial
 * rick_h_ whistles
<tjagoda> You judge a phone by it's app store?
<tjagoda> ..one device in to catchup mode?
<rick_h_> I judge a computer by the apps it runs sure
<rick_h_> come on, even BB knows it's in trouble. "We have a tablet...with a diff OS...and we're trying to run android apps on it"
<rick_h_> "oh, and you have to dev for it in a totally diff way..."
<tjagoda> Their tablet has great reviews which show it surpassing performance of the iPad and playing flash
<rick_h_> "but it's all cool, android is the fragmented one, come to the bright future of BB"
<tjagoda> They're certainly behind, but I highly doubt their dead
<tjagoda> RIM can shit miracles like AMD can crap rabbits =P
<tjagoda> http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/portable-computing/hands-on-blackberry-playbook-review-919861
<tjagoda> they're*
<tjagoda> The whole bezel touch interface thing on the playbook is cool
<rick_h_> heh, great review, no talk of apps/dev support, no battery life, no settings. That's the problem with this thing
<rick_h_> "oh, it shows off very fancy in demo mode"
<rick_h_> but nothing to real life usage
<rick_h_> the question on how well this thing will work without a BB phone is still out there
<tjagoda> You are absolutely a zealot, sir =P
<rick_h_> no, just anti BB :)
<tjagoda> There is no difference between that and what I just said
<rick_h_> I don't think there's a compelling android tablet either, sucks
<rick_h_> and don't feel a great need for any tablet to be honest
<tjagoda> I would replace my netbook with a tablet if I had a tablet which could do more than just consume content
<rick_h_> but when it comes to android v BB...unless your business has signed you up for BB server goodness, it's not even close
<rick_h_> heh "I'd replace my laptop with a tablet if a tablet was a laptop"
<snap-l> The only reason that anyone uses BB is because of the enterprise integrtion
<snap-l> if that were to suffer, the BB market would tank
<snap-l> period
<tjagoda> No disagreement there
<snap-l> And if someone were to do enterprise better than BB, then BB would be inserious trouble
<rick_h_> right, but in today's world of people bringing consumer devices into the enterprise...how can it not tang?
<rick_h_> /tang/tank
<snap-l> They've essentially taken on the role of Palm in this scenario: Do one thing and do it really well
<tjagoda> I think you overestimate how many corporations allow that
<rick_h_> you hear it over and over again, the big boss comes in with his fancy new toy
<snap-l> and of course we're all singing the praises of Palm now, aren't we.
<rick_h_> heh, I had it happen to me man
<snap-l> tjagoda: bullshit. :)
<tjagoda> ITW is a fortune 200 company and we have rules specifically /against/ that
<snap-l> tjagoda: Some boss gets tired of carrying around the BB, and wants to start using his brand new HTC jismulator
<snap-l> because it's just so freaking amazing
<tjagoda> We're a manufacturing company
<tjagoda> I think you're overestimating the boss
<snap-l> tjagoda: Tough
<snap-l> This boss is lord of the company
<tjagoda> No
<tjagoda> We're run by financials
<snap-l> he makes more money in the toilet for the company than anyone else
<tjagoda> The company is the lord of the boss
<snap-l> so you now have to get his HTC Jismulator working
<tjagoda> What you are describing is the opposite of what actually happens here
<wolfger> @tjagoda re: boss.... You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
<snap-l> And your company is the model for other companies?
<wolfger> If the person you're calling "boss" can't get his way, then he isn't actually the boss
<snap-l> I've seen it happen with just about every company that I've been a part of
<tjagoda> No, but you all seem to think that it's the same throughout all of the market, I was attempting to point out that it isnt
<snap-l> "How do I get my Palm 7 to do e-Mail and access the intranet website"?
<snap-l> Little exception documents about "don't turn xx off, or you'll get the ire of one of the VPs"
<snap-l> never mind that the VP graduated to another section in the last millenia
<snap-l> I'm sure there's a Domino server still running at Chrysler to support a few executives that have 6TB quotas that refuse to migrate to Exchange. ;)
<tjagoda> We have so much corporate rule and regulation that any manager short of VP doesn't really have the ability to make absurd executive claims
<snap-l> tjagoda: I hope nobody in your executive area picks up PC Magazine
<snap-l> Or you are in for a world of hurt.
<tjagoda> And to be honest, unless it is financially justified in terms of a ROI, we practically never move platforms
<tjagoda> so we'll be BBerry until everything else is shit cheap, or otherwise
<snap-l> That day is coming
<snap-l> Are you on exchange?
<tjagoda> Yes and no
<snap-l> expect Microsoft to make inroads for Windows phone 7
<tjagoda> I don't feel a threat from WinMo 7
<tjagoda> especially with all the shit in the media about it
<snap-l> Yes, but if the handsets are cheaper, and doesn't require the infrastructure to support it like it does with the BB, you'll be looking into it
<snap-l> Understand, you're not making the decisions; finance is. ;)
<tjagoda> With all the data they eat they wouldn't be cheaper in the foreseeable future
<snap-l> and Microsoft has a _very_ nice lunch budget.
<tjagoda> Most of our blackberry users are sub 100 MB of monthly data consumption
<tjagoda> That's like breakfast for a WinMo7
<tjagoda> =P
<brousch> i just convinced the boss to get his own android
<brousch> it took about a year to finally convince him to get rid of his ancient palm pilot
<tjagoda> We essentially do not restrict personal calls or text messaging
<tjagoda> so for the most part my BBerry user base is content
<brousch> within a month we will have 3 company androids
<tjagoda> because we've shut up any possible complaint by giving them free shit
<snap-l> tjagoda: So, when the revolution comes, you'll be completely blindsided. ;)
<snap-l> Good, keep it that way. ;)
<tjagoda> The market can be turned in favor of blackberry as quickly as it turned them out of favor
<tjagoda> we shall see =P
<snap-l> I'd wager you on this, but I'm not doing so well with my other prognostications. :)
<brousch> there are ways they could survive
<tjagoda> They may have been waiting for the last 5 years listening to complaints of people with droids and iphones
<tjagoda> who knows
<brousch> in the construction field, we need a tough tablet that can work with autodesk stuff
<brousch> i'm sure there are similar needs in other fields
<brousch> if they can get into those niches they could survive
<brousch> they have to move fast though, before ipad apps for these things are developed
<jrwren> SOX probably says that those execs have to keep their 6TB of mail.
<tjagoda> I hate SOX with such a passion.
<snap-l> jrwren: SOX can go die in a fire.
<jrwren> :)
<wolfger> SOX.... those mandatory meetings I have really no recollection of whatsoever.
<wolfger> Gotta love overhearing "use some common sense" at work...
<wolfger> and then the less-politically-correct ranting that ensues after he hangs up the phone. :-)
<rick_h_> and here's the master plan, all about spectrum/4g: http://www.androidcentral.com/att-targets-t-mobiles-current-3g-spectrum-expanded-lte-capacity
<rick_h_> tjagoda: ^
<rick_h_> back to your original question on thoughts of tmo/att
<tjagoda> Expanding coverage and quality
<tjagoda> win
<tjagoda> 95% of the US Population
<tjagoda> I wonder how much of that number is lie
<greg-g> about 95%
<brousch> the 95% is not the lie, it is the definition of "coverage"
<brousch>  * if you get 1 bar of 2G for 1 second out of each minute on a clear and sunny night, you're covered!
<brousch> hm, clear and sunny night
<tjagoda> You live in a special place
<snap-l> sounds like insurance. ;)
<brousch> oh, and you have to stand on your roof
<snap-l> "You were covered up until your car lost signal and crashed into that light pole"
<brousch> i suppose clear and sunny nights occur in the arctic circle
<snap-l> yep
<tjagoda> so 95% of canada is covered?
<brousch> 95% of canadians
<brousch> only like 5% of canada is settled, right?
<wolfger> which is a far cry from 95% of US population
<tjagoda> Only about 50% of Canada has never been settled
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ammqvMoE0_s
<snap-l> s/settled/had a tim hortons built on it/
<brousch> pine trees and frozen tundra
<tjagoda> Mmm Tim Hortons.
<brousch> mmmm, tim hortons. the best thing to come out of canada
<wolfger> Tim's == civilization
<rick_h_> no, it's no good once it leaves canada
<snap-l> jcastro: That link above is for you.
<tjagoda> Tim Hortons is greater than Insulin?
<tjagoda> =P
<snap-l> Better yet,
<snap-l> jcastro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ammqvMoE0_s
<wolfger> rick_h_: Michigan is part of Canada, really
<brousch> i used to walk across UM to get food at tim horton's
<rick_h_> ok, well the one next to me sucks
<rick_h_> at least snap-l convinced me that it's better closer to canada
<wolfger> Hmm. Perhaps there's only a certain distance inland...
<snap-l> It is
<wolfger> I have always lived close to the border
<snap-l> Port Huron's Timmies is like fucking mana from heaven
<snap-l> the one across to me is complete shit
<brousch> wtf, the west side finally got a tim hortons, and it's in holland?!
<wolfger> sounds like they need better corporate oversight on the franchise
<snap-l> brousch: Heh
<snap-l> brousch: And it's probably near Hope
<brousch> yeah, less than a mile i think
<brousch> 2 blocks, so 1/4 mile?
<jrwren> 95% of the us population is easy given that you can get that simply by covering top N urban areas.
<jrwren> its when that population travels taht its harder.
<jrwren> what does it even mean to cover a person?
<jrwren> cover them at home? at work? when they are everywhere they might be.
<jrwren> that 3rd one is what they don't do.
<rick_h_> I hate people that can't do proper inline replies in email
<rick_h_> makes life so hard
<rick_h_> rant rant
<brousch> ut oh, rick_h_ is running out of unique rant material and relying on rants as old as the web?
<tjagoda> Tim Hortons quality is directly proportional to how close it is to the motherland
<jrwren> just reply wiht "I can't understand to what you are replying. Could you either try again with correct inlines, or form complete thoughts and sentances. k, ty, bai"
<rick_h_> no, so he kind of did it using html reply with colored response
<rick_h_> so now when I hit reply, mutt's confused and merged his comments with mine, and he added his giant company "This message is only for ..."
<rick_h_> at the top of the reply
<rick_h_> just a mess
<brousch> hehe
<jrwren> oh.
<jrwren> I thought outlook does that.
<jrwren> it really only works with other outlook replies and trashes the plain text reply.
<jrwren> hate that.
<rick_h_> ah, that explains it then
<jrwren> its 2011 and email still doesn't work.
<greg-g> yeah, there is one person who is on a bunchof mailing list I'm on who tries to do inline, but his first line of his comment always starts with a ">" thus I miss it sometimes
<brousch> jrwren: and it sounds like it's MS's fault ;)
<rick_h_> because it's 2011 and people want their custom font signatures ugh
<jrwren> this is a case where I actually like gmails' less is more
<snap-l> I just say "Please put your reply in a Word document"
<jrwren> simply don't allow that b.s.
<snap-l> and then reject it
<rick_h_> I'm rewriting the message, fortunately things like mutt/vim and gq command helps a ton
<tjagoda> Put you reply in a word document
<tjagoda> trololololol
<tjagoda> I'm sending you an email which is 50% HTML, 50% plain text
<wolfger> jrwren: if you live and/or work inside a covered area, you are covered. So... not as impressive as it sounds to cover 95% of the population.
<jrwren> wolfger: exactly.
<rick_h_> greg-g: you see CHC in AA tonight?
<rick_h_> their new "monday" thing
<brousch> is it also an ubuntu hour?
<tjagoda> Every hour is Ubuntu hour.
<wolfger> jrwren && rick_h_: Let's not forget the people^h^h^h^h^h^h^h managers who will send you an e-mail simply saying "fyi" or "please respond", followed by a dozen e-mails worth of top-posted replies, each of which are greater than one screen-height in length.
<tjagoda> What's wrong with that?
<tjagoda> =p
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, saw that. I know Cory Kaufman from the School of Information
<rick_h_> greg-g: awesome
<tjagoda> Does he have a relative named Sara?
<brousch> i need to point my boss to this conversation. he does not believe me when i tell him that cannot be fixed
<greg-g> :P
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, when I first started my boss warned me
<rick_h_> because I was handling his replies all nice and bottom post/cleaned up like
<rick_h_> "just fyi, people here don't know the email ettiquette so you'll get a lot of top posting and confusing replies"
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h_> lead by example I guess :)
<tjagoda> I think if I tried to do anything other than top posting, everybody here would be confused and just stop reading my email.
<brousch> we will have a long thread between 3 or 4 parties regarding contractual changes and then my boss gets a forwarded copy of the whole gob at the end
<brousch> then he prints it out and shuffles sheets of paper around to get it in some sort of order
<wolfger> Every once in a while people here will reply almost-correctly to an e-mail. But they insist on doing it by making the reply text a different color.
<wolfger> So if it happens more than twice in a single thread..... taste the rainbow.
<greg-g> brousch: ohman, that is so sad
<wolfger> kill me. kill me now.
<brousch> my arms are too short!
<wolfger> Just overheard "everything should be on the cloud, anyway"
<_stink_> HAH
<rick_h_> nice, now ask them to define "cloud"
<snap-l> cloud = Not on my budget
<_stink_> yeah, i've wondered if other people bottom post at work
<snap-l> someone else should pay for it, I just get to use it
<_stink_> if i did that people wouldn't know wtf i was doing
<snap-l> I've given up bottom posting in Outlook
<snap-l> it just doesn't work.
<_stink_> 'hay you didn't write anything'
<rick_h_> _stink_: as long as I trim the original and make sure I do it well, it's not like peoepl can't figure it out
<wolfger> now same person is off on an Apple fanboy tirade about how Jobs is a tech genius
<rick_h_> I mean, you don't leave 100 lines of crap and reply one line at the bottom
<snap-l> rick_h_: Says you. ;)
<_stink_> hehe
<rick_h_> snap-l: yep, says me :P
<_stink_> rick_h_ always takes the high road.
<snap-l> I quote 1000 posts in Usenet just to add "blow me"
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> er, 1000 line posts
<rick_h_> sometimes I do feel like 90% of my job is 'lead by example'
<snap-l> You're the RMS of your workplace. ;)
<rick_h_> 'look, here's some nice comments, didn't you find those helpful? You should try that.'
<wolfger> RMH?
<rick_h_> 'Oh look, you ask about that, and over on our docs server, under my project name, is a doc on that...isn't that cool?"
 * snap-l really shouldn't bait rick_h_ like that, since he does know where I live.
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, I have to be careful, you edit the postcasts
<rick_h_> I don't always listen to every minute of every one
<rick_h_> and you have commit rights to bookie :/
<snap-l> Yay, we have a cold war. ;)
 * rick_h_ is rethinking the shared repo...forking ftw? 
<snap-l> rick_h_: Perhaps
<snap-l> Would keep me from screwing up the repo every other push
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well, learning is best done painfully
<wolfger> the more it hurts, the better you remember
<snap-l> I see git like a slot machine
<snap-l> every time I pull the repo, I see if it blew things up. ;)
<snap-l> Yipes... Kraftwerk's "Expo 2000, 2001 mix" just popped on
<snap-l> I think I suddenly feel sorry for anyone that lived under us
<snap-l> er, sorry, Kling Klang Mix 2002
<binbrain> todays groupon, half off botox, score
<snap-l> rockin'
<rick_h_> I know it's the hater in me, but 3rd article I've seen on it: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/macbook-pro-2011-owners-complain-of-hard-freeze-problems/11953
<rick_h_> must be all that thunder inside :P
<greg-g> I love it
<rick_h_> so let's go all out, it's apple's strategy to keep you from overloading your system
<rick_h_> then you realize all you do you can do on an ipad
 * brousch channels Steve Jobs: "All laptops have this problem. You're just setting it wrong. Free cooling pad for all!"
<rick_h_> shipping costs go way down, and they can put out a new one every year, win!
<rick_h_> ok, crazy hating over, back to work :)
<brousch> apple's newest best seller: $150 cooling lap pad
<snap-l> brousch: You're doing it wrong
<brousch> it's an aluminum sheet with ultraquiet fans and a perfectly contoured velvet cushion for your legs
<snap-l> the Apple air-conditioned tent
<rick_h_> heh, "Steve: we can't ship this, the fans are too loud"
<snap-l> Why sell a $150 hack, when you can sell an entire experience
<rick_h_> engineer: "So his test is 4:32 long, don't kick fans on until 4:40 and he'll never notice"
<brousch> the fans blow the air onto your genitals to make sure you have a happy feeling
<rick_h_> "it'll lock up, but we'll be on our way to the lab by then"
<snap-l> ikea desk, and a quiet AC unit
<rick_h_> ooh, in all white, I Like it
<rick_h_> with magnet cover
<rick_h_> they're going to need bigger stores
<brousch> why? one desk won't take up much space
<rick_h_> no, you have to deck the place with different colored desk covers to get the full skittles effect
<brousch> it's all white and aluminum and black now
<snap-l> Man, you guys lack imagination
<snap-l> The Apple Hyperbaric chamber
<snap-l> use your Mac in quiet contentment
<rick_h_> naw, you can't show off to other people and they can see you use it
<snap-l> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/HyperbaricDive_Chamber_1.jpg
<snap-l> They'll just see the giant Apple logo outside.
<snap-l> and wish they could participate.
<brousch> i want people to see my face while i use the apple. that way they can see my superior smugness and know that i am awesome. i don't want to hide away in some cave
<snap-l> That's why it'll be transparent
<brousch> ah, excellent
<snap-l> and it'll also have the iBoombox
<brousch> make it so
<snap-l> as an added feature
<snap-l> so you can listen to superior sound in your hyperbaric chamber.
<snap-l> all the whole cooling your environment so your computer may be content
<brousch> a little fold-up tent to place over my starbucks table?
<snap-l> and it'll also have an iSlanket option as well
<brousch> that is awesome
<brousch> lockable door
<snap-l> Yeah, it'll signal the return of the Apple iPod HiFi
<jrwren> what is the _ convention for private in python?  v. __ ?
<jrwren> is that pep8 ?
<rick_h_> _ is for private
<rick_h_> __ is for magic methods
<jrwren> ty
<jrwren> magic methods eh? what does that mean?
<rick_h_> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ Naming Conventions section
<rick_h_> mainly interface type things
<rick_h_> __init__
<rick_h_> __iter__
<rick_h_> __dict__
<rick_h_> so to implement something as a context manager you implement the __enter__ and __exit__ methods
 * rick_h_ 's new favorite thing
<jrwren> oh, that kind of magic.
<rick_h_> right
<jrwren> whose context manager?
<rick_h_> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0343/
<rick_h_> ugh, far down are the examples
<rick_h_> basically provides a wrapper around a section of code with really pretty syntax sugar
<rick_h_> using the `with` statement/keyword
<rick_h_> http://requires-thinking.blogspot.com/2009/02/this-is-python-context-managers-and.html
<rick_h_> more 'I'm using it now like this' example
<jrwren> oh right, "with"
<jrwren> with is very cool.
<jrwren> its like C#'s using, only even cooler
<rick_h_> yea, and you can write custom `with` things by implementing its two magic methods
<rick_h_> so anyway, magic methods hook into existing syntax usage, without subclassing/interface defining
<rick_h_> you just do some stuff and magic happens
<jrwren> sounds like an implicit interface.
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> anyway, all methods used for that start/end with __
<jrwren> TY
<rick_h_> love it: http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/03/21/python-hpc/
<snap-l> I love it when I think of a song in my head, and it's something that I've played on OMC
<rick_h_> nice
<snap-l> rick_h_: Python is replacing Fortran, afaict.
<rick_h_> yea, just love the last line "notice the lack of ruby, java... :)"
<jrwren> ruby I can see.
<jrwren> but java is not a poor performer, nor is perl.
<jrwren> posts like that are just dogmatic idiocy
<binbrain> hmm, looking up "implicit interfaces" for c#, doesn't seem to be anything "implicit" about it???
<jrwren> nope, nothing implicit
<jrwren> well, you don't mark which methods implement the interface, its implicit by matching signature.
<jrwren> as opposed to explicit interface impl. go look that up :)
<binbrain> so basically some inference needed
<rick_h_> it's all relative
<binbrain> rick_h_: real interface support now in Pyramid, wonder if people will them now, I don't mean ABCs either
<binbrain> will <use> them
<rick_h_> binbrain: nope, people aren't happy to see them there for the most part
<rick_h_> it's 'zopish'
<binbrain> baah
<snap-l> greg-g: Opinion, please, if you have a chance: http://openmetalcast.com/2011/03/21/license-mix-up/
<snap-l> updated a bit
<greg-g> So, since you only hold the rights to the content you create, you are in effect only licensing your intro/outro/commentary/interviews. You aren't licensing the music that is already made available under some other license. ...
<snap-l> Oh, so I could keep it BY-NC-SA?
<snap-l> even with By-NC-ND?
<snap-l> (content)
<greg-g> What you can say is: "All OMC-original content is licensed XXX while each song in this podcast is available under the terms listed below" then list each song title and their license
<greg-g> (ugh lag)
<snap-l> Ah, OK.
<greg-g> then it is explicit about what parts are licensed how
<snap-l> quick question, while I have you here.
<greg-g> shoot
<snap-l> If I use a song clip , and speak over it, am I creatinv a deriv?
<greg-g> yeah :/
<greg-g> *probably*
<greg-g> actually, only *maybe*
<snap-l> so what I'm doing for lococast is derivs, then?
<greg-g> come on lag!
<greg-g> lemme think....
<snap-l> I'm not remixing the material
<snap-l> only lowering the volume and speaking over it like I would on the radio
<greg-g> so, in the license it has "For the avoidance of doubt, where the Work is a musical work, performance or phonogram, the synchronization of the Work in timed-relation with a moving image ("synching") will be considered an Adaptation for the purpose of this License."
<greg-g> that only mentions music+video, of course
<snap-l> of course. :)
<greg-g> so.... as your pro-bono non-legal legal advice, you are OK.
<snap-l> Thanks. :)
<greg-g> I don't think it would be deemed a derivative and even if it was, your use would deinitely be considered a fair use
<snap-l> I figured this was back-of-the-envelope. :)
<greg-g> damnit, this channel is logged
 * greg-g creates #ubuntu-us-mi-offtopic
<snap-l> I won't hold you to any opinion.
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> take it to bookie, I can't even get ops back in there so you're safe
<greg-g> haha
<snap-l> Honestly, though, I don't want folks cutting up the episode to get the music out of it
<snap-l> I'd rather they get it from the artists themselves.
<snap-l> I'm not creating mixtapes. ;)
<brousch> what if he sings along with the music? or makes instrument sounds with his mouth?
<snap-l> I'm also curious about CC-licensed covers of popular songs
<snap-l> I'm of the mind that even if the performance is CC, that ASCAP / BMI are still able to collect dues.
<greg-g> right, covers are derivatives of something, either the original recording, or the lyrics, or the musical score, or all 3 (and each has separate copyright)
<snap-l> Yeah, that's why I stay away from covers
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> smart
<snap-l> even though there's one of Rick Astley that I desperately want to play. ;)
<greg-g> brousch: can I use the oft-used lawyer refrain? "it depends" :P
<greg-g> snap-l: awesome, linky?
<snap-l> http://onehitwonders.bandcamp.com/album/vol-i
<greg-g> I might regret saying this, but, this isn't half bad
<snap-l> Yeah, it's pretty good
<snap-l> but it's still Astley
<snap-l> ie: his licenses.
<brousch> rick_h_: what was your favorite pycon presentation? i have a few minutes to watch one
<rick_h_> check out the disqus one
<rick_h_> for pure fun, the one with the old computer, audio xxx
<brousch> disqus sounds better
<rick_h_> it's not
<rick_h_> but disqus is cool
<snap-l> disqus makes Jesus cry
<jrwren> jesus is a cry baby
<rick_h_> http://pycon.blip.tv/file/4878868/
<rick_h_> everyone watch that, it's the most raved presentation of pycon
<snap-l> Yeah, that's definitely on my radar
<snap-l> mostly because I actually used a Superboard at one point
 * snap-l wishes he had one. ;)
<brousch> too late. started disqus
<rick_h_> the one about the telescope array was highly rated
<rick_h_> dropbox had a great one
<rick_h_> but their plenary was ugh
<binbrain> rick_h_ I really enjoyed "The Python that wasn't" http://blip.tv/file/4881006
<rick_h_> cool, haven't heard about that one/seen it
<binbrain> good overview of the PEPS that have been rejected and why
<greg-g> I need some good working music, what is everyone listening to?
<rick_h_> heh, hans zimmer, probably not a good suggestion
<greg-g> oh, movie scores? interesting :)
<rick_h_> yea, big fan since backdraft soundtrack
<rick_h_> did all the pirates of ... movies
<greg-g> cool
<rick_h_> latest batman
<greg-g> yeah, might check out some classical actually
<snap-l> I just got a drive-by phone call from a friend from college.
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> Also playing with Beautiful Soup
<snap-l> which is the most awesome named library for XML parsing ever
<rick_h_> yea, very handy
<brousch> rick_h_: superboard talk was some crazy wtf stuff
<rick_h_> brousch: isn't it
<rick_h_> not all that educational, but just pure fun/wow
<brousch> i'm a little afraid of that guy now
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> definitely awed
<brousch> i love that he ported a bunch of stuff to python3 to get it done, so it's not just a waste of time
<rick_h_> oh yea, definitely learned a few things for sure
<rick_h_> I love his line "take away all the fun from a project and you're left with deployment"
<rick_h_> that was a big OH while at pycon
<brousch> does celery  do the same thing as 0mq?
<snap-l> hah
<brousch> time for grpug. laters
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/conversation/66693523#notice-67752595
<snap-l> Bah, copypasta
<rick_h_> hah, awesome
<snap-l> Sorry, but who thinks of these things?
<rick_h_> heh, "what happens when you raise a bunch of money for a bunch of college kids who don't know a lot of programming?"
<snap-l> rick_h_: ++
<rick_h_> wooo! hopefully they're taking design classes next semester
<rick_h_> but this just came out?
<snap-l> Hopefully they learn a thing or two about disparate systems
<rick_h_> so much for release early/often/iterate
<snap-l> I think it's just someone noticing this
<snap-l> rick_h_: Um, did you forget to post something?
<snap-l> for lococast? :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: yes :)
<rick_h_> todo for tonight
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> have the boy
<rick_h_> meant to do it last night but caught up with bookie
<snap-l> (whoops)
<rick_h_> well, tough, have multiple todo/loves
<rick_h_> AZ!!!!!!                      Zvb zcx               z
<rick_h_>  dczxz
<rick_h_> says michael
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh, I'm not being accusatorial
<snap-l> Just fell off of my radar as well
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I was "I just want to push this one bookie fix...and then I'll do the foord post"
<rick_h_> and well, hours tend to go by when I say that I realize now
<rick_h_> DBO snap-l you guys up for thurs interview 8:30pm?
<DBO> sure
<rick_h_> speaking of stuff I need to get going
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think that'll work
<rick_h_> cool, will work on notes/etc after I get foord out :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok, out and emailed Michael to let him know
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-22
<rick_h_> sweet, Foord seems cool with the interview, pubbing it mightily.
<rick_h_> snap-l: we've passed more s3 bandwith than all of last month, with 10 days still to go :)
<rick_h_> DBO: email on the way for google doc, and snap-l it's up there
<snap-l> rick_h_: That is awesome!
<rick_h_> I need to get that script up for the traffic on that from s3
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> maybe just pay the guy with the solution, just hate giving out the aws key
<snap-l> wow, 80 visits on one day
<snap-l> If you haven't checked out the Mastodon LIve at the Aragon DVD / CD combo, you're seriously missing out
<tjagoda> Ahoy
<wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> party
<wolfger> rick_h_ and snap-l: a bit of (not-very-)constructive criticism... the Pycon wrapup podcast? Worst sound levels, ever. If I turn the volume up enough to hear rick_h_ I get my eardrums blasted by the loudest guy at the table. If I turn it down to where I can listen without pain, I can't hear anything rick_h_ says.
<rick_h_> wolfger: yea, I think I apologize for it in the post
<rick_h_> it was a mess
<rick_h_> we had a big room, peopel kept turning around talking behind them, etc
<rick_h_> I tried to keep adjusting the levels to keep up
<rick_h_> very sorry, lessons learned, won't happen again
<wolfger> Sure, I understand it's a logistical nightmare. :-)
<rick_h_> it gits a bit better once you get into it
<rick_h_> but even still :/
<rick_h_> but it was considered good material we wanted to still put out
<wolfger> Oh, I finished it on my ride in.
<rick_h_> and no chance to rerecord it
<wolfger> and I'm sure road noise played a factor in my displeasure
<rick_h_> heh, well I take 100% responsibility
<rick_h_> I didn't do a good job forcing people to talk into the mics
<rick_h_> and I played with levels on the hardware too much to compensate which just made it worse
<rick_h_> unfortunately it was my second run with the new gear
<rick_h_> and been a lot of learning on my end
<rick_h_> love this: http://twitter.com/#!/voidspace/status/50011778788245504
<wolfger> Anybody see the O'Reilly disaster relief sale today? http://post.oreilly.com/form/oreilly/viewhtml/9z1zga584ka0cs8c3j3seujd5hvqramv99us79d73h0?utm_content=em-orm-books-videos-ddjpn-elists&utm_campaign=Books+Videos&utm_source=iPost&utm_medium=email&imm_mid=06c4a7&cmp=em-orm-books-videos-ddjpn-elists
<wolfger> Thinking about picking up a book or two. Javascript: The Good Parts sounds useful. Learning Android sounds like something I'll set on my bookshelf and plan to read someday.
<rick_h_> yea, grabbing the hadoop book now actually
<rick_h_> JS the good parts is one of the best 2/3 JS books out there
<rick_h_> thought about learning android, but don't know when I'll get to it
<wolfger> The Book of Audacity for you podcasters. :-)
<rick_h_> already have a couple of books in line on the kindle
<rick_h_> that's snap-l's job :P
<wolfger> rick_h_: exactly!
<wolfger> I've had Android Dev Meetup on my calendar for months now. Never make it.
<rick_h_> booooo
<rick_h_> you make that lug meeting you were talking about?
<wolfger> Yes, I did. Same evening as the meetup
<rick_h_> cool
<wolfger> but now I have a string of poker tournies on Thursday nights
<wolfger> so no more Thursday meetings for the next.... 3 weeks? Something like that
<wolfger> Did really well last Thursday. Had a good shot at some serious cash
<wolfger> instead, walked away with a buck-oh-five
<wolfger> :-p
<wolfger> but... I got paid to have fun. Can't beat that.
<wolfger> would've gone to CHC-AA Monday, but I wasn't in Dundee for a change :-p
<wolfger>  your comments on one of those podcasts I listened to this morning rekindled my interest in a project I planned out some months ago
<wolfger> Basically, a specialized Twitter client to turn a hashtag into an impromptu IRC channel
<wolfger> Some folks I know have a Twitter #wineparty every Friday, and it's so hard to keep up with that using any standard Twitter client, that I started making plans to do this.
<rick_h_> http://thechangelog.com/post/4005924669/earthquake-twitter-client-on-terminal-with-streaming-api
<rick_h_> I've got that in my list of things to check out
<rick_h_> might be part of that
<wolfger> and your whine about Twitter replacing IRC as the backchannel told me, "hey, there's probably a number of geeks who would dig this"
<wolfger> I'll check that out
<wolfger> but I was thinking of doing an xchat style interface, complete with "user list" based on how recently somebody's used the hashtag (virtually entering/leaving the channel)
<wolfger> and set up "private channels" when you get @'d without the hashtag
<tjagoda> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/03/blackberry-playbook-launching-april-19-pre-orders-start-at-499-for-16gb.ars
<tjagoda> Squeeeee
<brousch> a blackberry fanboy?
<rick_h_> uh oh, let's not go through this again
<brousch> that's like an excel fanboy
<rick_h_> read yesterday's morning if you're interested :)
<tjagoda> I do use excel to great extent here
<tjagoda> =p
<brousch> at least you're consistent
<tjagoda> I like the comments on that article
<tjagoda> "I have a blackberry for work and it's fine as far a business  applications go.  I also like the fact that it is secure enough that  certain governments are a bit jaded by that fact they can't crack my  email. "
<brousch> greg-g: wtf is this brownie recipe? hav you actually eaten that?
<tjagoda> Brownies?
<tjagoda> Wuh?
<brousch> on his buzz feed
<tjagoda> link?
<wolfger> brownies... buzz... :-)
<brousch> i lied, it's on his google reader shares
<brousch> http://paridy.blogspot.com/2011/03/meal-in-brownie-and-chia-pudding.html
<tjagoda> holy christ
<tjagoda> that cant be a real brownie
<brousch> it frightens and confuses me
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> wolfger: Sorry for your tender ears
<snap-l> The levels were the best that I could do. :)
<snap-l> Also, I <3 O'Reilly
<snap-l> (the book publisher, not the pundit)
<tjagoda> Whyfor?
<snap-l> Their sales, and overall plesant experience downloading books from them
<snap-l> and that they are donating to Japan
<rick_h_> man I hate this code base
<snap-l> Which one now?
<rick_h_> the original one done by the .net guys
<rick_h_> with the C style for loops and db table/columns like HotAlert.HotAlertID
<rick_h_> or HotAlert_Status.HotAlert_StatusID
<rick_h_> as the pk
<brousch> what should it be?
<rick_h_> hotalert_status.id
<rick_h_> or better yet, status.id
 * snap-l quietly thanks brousch, because he didn't see the problem either
<rick_h_> ?! Try typing it a ton of times, you'll think about it
<brousch> why type when the tools type it for you?
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's what autocompleting IDEs are for. ;)
<rick_h_> bah, you guys are helpless :P
<snap-l> hopeless
<snap-l> not helpless
<rick_h_> that too
<rick_h_> ide completion == helpless, don't think about things like that when you don't have to type it out
<rick_h_> makes my eyes bleed
<snap-l> Though I'll agree that repeating the name over and over and over is pretty dumb
<rick_h_> I mean really, wtf do you need case in table column names for?
<snap-l> BecauseTheLastLanguageYouLookedAtWasJava?
<rick_h_> "well mysql is case insensitive so I didn't think it mattered"
<rick_h_> except when you go to any other db backend...we're supposed to be using an ORM
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> anyway, back to work, just had to rant for a second, slowly morphing the code base around
<snap-l> Well, and God help you when you hit a database that does care about case sensitive columns
<rick_h_> finally have declarative ORM models, but all the queries are still by hand
<snap-l> though I'm not sure if PostgreSQL cares
<rick_h_> I think it does
<jrwren> learning android?  as in Java??? ugh, I feel for your.
<jrwren> err, feel bad for you
<rick_h_> thankfully SA loves me
<rick_h_> next step is to remap the ORM objects names to lower/sensible names
<rick_h_> and map to the ugly column names
<snap-l> PostgreSQL didn't care in the test select that I did.
<rick_h_> and I can slowly remove them from my eyeballs
<snap-l> at least, 8.4.7 didn't care.
<rick_h_> man I love python
<jrwren> just give me regular brownies please.
<jrwren> there is already lots of sugar in those bean and squash brownies, I'd rather just have the extra sugar fat and wheat version
<jrwren> and yes, I'm sure that is a real brownie, having cookied a lot with all of those ingredients the proportions and textures add up to something that isn't bad.
<jrwren> just think of it like a brownie flavored bean pie
<jrwren> and if you have not eaten bean pie, then you are lame :p
<jrwren> what is wrong with  HotAlert_Status.HotAlert_StatusID ?  I mean sure, just .ID would suffice, but come on, if htat is all you have to bitch about, count your blessings.
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> sorry, when it's one of a dozen tables/each with 10+ fields all done that way
<rick_h_> it's a bit much
<rick_h_> you don't need to prefix every column with the table name
<jrwren> snap-l++ even vim will autocomplete that shit for you. hit ctrl-n
<rick_h_> it's in the table name
<rick_h_> it's still ugly as hell, less readble, and harder to keep line lengths in order
<jrwren> sounds like you need to man up.
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> it's my job, I'm supposed to be fixing/exampling how to write this crap better
<jrwren> CamelCaseIsPrettyNormalTheseDays_Although_IWill_Admit_Mixing_TheUnderScoreDelimiterRAndomlyIsVeryWeird
<jrwren> SoundsLikeYouAreFocusingOnThingsThatDon'tMatter
<rick_h_> pep8
<rick_h_> meh, whatever
<jrwren> is it a python code base?
<rick_h_> standards win
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> what does your database design and naming convention have to do with python and pep8 ?
<jrwren> C style for loops in your python code?
<rick_h_> because it turns into ORM model/attrib names
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> ok, now I understand your gripe.
<jrwren> please continue.
<rick_h_> sorry, not for, if
<rick_h_> if x == 1 or x == 2 or x == 3
<jrwren> what is C-sytle if?
<rick_h_> if x in [1,2,3]
<jrwren> hehehe, just proof someone didn't know python.
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> thus my refactoring, teaching
<jrwren> even still on the database front, your ORM should let you map the model/attrib names, if you can't, get a new ORM.
<rick_h_> and I get to come here and gripe
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I'm doing that now, which is why I <3 Sqlalchemy
<rick_h_> but the code is still using old names
<rick_h_> so it's not a one step rename
<rick_h_> and there are many manually constructed queries
<jrwren> awesome.
<rick_h_> anyway, too much time on this, didn't mean to create an hour long disucssion
<rick_h_> just mornnig cranky gripes...ugh hate this codebase
<jrwren> i understand the problems now. Sounds pretty typical.
<jrwren> I deal with that kind of crap all day long in C#.
<rick_h_> but I have to do it, clean it as I go
<rick_h_> get new features released tomorrow
<rick_h_> oh yea, everywhere has those codebases that were new, done by the new guy, etc
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> or old guy that was new to the language.
<jrwren> my huge gripe is people misunderstanding books.
<jrwren> you don't need to apply every patter from the gang of four.
<rick_h_> well, they don't get past chapter 4 of the books
<rick_h_> heh, we don't get any patterns
<rick_h_> guys here more likely to treat python as php straight one page script
<jrwren> EWE
<jrwren> figures.
<rick_h_> I've got a meeting this afternoon to try to convince peopel to do more objects using those magic methods we talked about yesterday
<jrwren> that actually makes some sense. python seems to be a popular next leap language from php
<rick_h_> making custom iterable objects/etc
<rick_h_> well, they come from C/C# background, thus the c-like if
<rick_h_> but python lets you do whatever
<jrwren> what py webframework are they uysing?
<rick_h_> since you can write a straight up/down shell script with it without ever calling a method
<rick_h_> pylons
<rick_h_> but still, they put app config in cotrollers/appconfig.py
<jrwren> C and C# have about as much in common as PHP and Python... so if their background is really strong in both C and C#, then they are pretty versatile.
<rick_h_> they import into templates because they can
<jrwren> hrm.
<rick_h_> and reusable isnt the name of the game
<jrwren> I don't know pylon well enough I guess.
<rick_h_> copy/pasted crap all over
<jrwren> ewe.
<jrwren> gross.
<rick_h_> meh, not much to know
<jrwren> that is bad no matter what the lang/platform
<rick_h_> it gives you a directory structure to put your stuff in
<brousch> so strict django-like templates would help keep your people in line?
<rick_h_> yea, exactly
<rick_h_> but so easy in python to copy/paste
<jrwren> its easy in any lang, you stil don't do it.
<rick_h_> no, tempaltes are more flexible, which is awesome when you need it
<rick_h_> but yea, gun, bullet have fun
<snap-l> New Open Metalcast is up. http://openmetalcast.com/2011/03/22/open-metalcast-episode-17-with-a-little-help-from-my-friends/
<rick_h_> yay
<brousch> pygame on android? i don't suppose anyone has tried this http://pygame.renpy.org/
<snap-l> There's a branch of pygame that someone is working on for Android
<snap-l> (subset, rather)
<binbrain> rick_h_ you have to have a meeting to convince people to programmer in Python like Python programmers?
<binbrain> my last place was like that
<binbrain> getters and setters, crap like that
<binbrain> <uncessary> getters and setters that is
<jrwren> i can't wait until ruby gets to this point.
<jrwren> 8then people will STFU about how great ruby is, and realize that any lang is great when its in great hands.
<snap-l> Hasn't it already gotten to that point?
<snap-l> or am I misremembering
<rick_h_> binbrain: it's slow. We don't tend to work on the same projects at the same time
<rick_h_> don't do code reviews
<rick_h_> and meetings are rare/far between where I can show stuff like this
<rick_h_> so it's more a personal, "hey, I changed xxx in your project, isn't that cool" type of things
<binbrain> we have a small shop, and we actually do code reviews, this would be my 1st job that actually put the effort in
<binbrain> only 4 python folks, and before a release, everybody has to go through and validate other peoples code
<binbrain> 1st for me
<binbrain> validate the code and the test
<jrwren> code reviews are overrated.
<rick_h_> yea, and here I'm just finally getting us to do feature branches on our own
<rick_h_> and work on pulling them together pre-release bit by bit
<jrwren> shared code ownership can be just as effective.
<snap-l> jrwren: Depends on the shop
<binbrain> jrwren I don't have a problem with them, takes a few days, and we've caught things with them
<jrwren> right, and I wouldn't want to work in a shop were code reviews were rated highly
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but a code review would give me a place to give constructive notes like the if statements "did you know you could write it like xxx"
<jrwren> rick_h_: patch it and make those be the commit notes and then make sure everyone reads the commit log.
<rick_h_> yea, but they don't :P
<jrwren> if you can't justify it in the commit notes, then you are just being a zealot about subjective opinion
<binbrain> like, you changed xyz, did you consider abc over here though? and crap like that
<rick_h_> I send out emails/notes/links to articles all the time
<jrwren> the focus on reading the commit log :)
<rick_h_> mark as read, delete
<tjagoda> http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/libya0309/s_l21_RTR2JKJ9.jpg
<rick_h_> oh, I can commit all day, doesn't mean they read the logs
<tjagoda> That is one bad ass Libyan.
<jrwren> so people aren't interested in doing a better job? that is a shame. you can't improve teams that don't want to improve.
<rick_h_> well, they have the attitude of "I'm so busy, I'll look at that when I have time"
<rick_h_> but don't realize that some of the improvements save them time
<rick_h_> a change comes in and needs to go through 10 copy/pasted places == longer than extract class/method and update
<rick_h_> and if they don't know the python tricks to make life easier, I need a chance to show/teach
<jrwren> right.
<rick_h_> "oh look, you can just pass that validator method in, and call it there...don't need to copy/paste the validator code"
<jrwren> if they acknoledge that doing the same thing in 10 places is bad, then you at least have a place to start.
<rick_h_> right
<jrwren> if htey think that its supposed to be that way, then you are wasting your time.
<binbrain> I'd say a large percentage of programmers just want to get the job over with and collect a paycheck
<rick_h_> binbrain: ++
<jrwren> have you ever met any of them?
<binbrain> huh, all the time
<jrwren> I haven't. I've only met people who want to do a better job.
<binbrain> interesting
<jrwren> I've met lots of devs that honestly don't know any better.
<rick_h_> I've met people that build a lot of false blockers as to why they can't do better
<rick_h_> don't have time is the biggest thing
<binbrain> its easy to find people who want to do a better job, you find them at meetups usually
<binbrain> you find them at coffee house coders ;)
<jrwren> I'm talking about going into clients.
<jrwren> But yes, the meetups, user groups, and conferenes are an echo chamber of people who want to do better and know where to look to do better.
<jrwren> right, its thoe false blockers that are the problem.
<jrwren> I think everyone wants to do better, there are just a lot of misguided people out there about how to do better.
<rick_h_> right, but CHC is 6-10 people, how many devs are in the area?
<binbrain> jrwren, I think your glass might be slightly half full on that one, but its not a black and white issue anyways, takes all kinds
<jrwren> oh sure.
<jrwren> but if you ask anyone in any profession if they want to do a good job, very rarely will you get the answer "no"
<binbrain> just like when you ask most people how things are and they tell you just fine even though their car just died
<binbrain> ;)
<jrwren> holy shit, my tweet is getting replies. *sigh* I was just throwing away a tweet.
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> that is two very different things, although both lead to volumes on human psycology
<binbrain> time for coffee and a meeting
<brousch> it's kind of creepy to run across rick_h_ in random places on the internet http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5155135/how-to-organize-a-python-project
<rick_h_> I'm everywhere!
<rick_h_> boo, no votes for my answer
<rick_h_> what a crock :P
<rick_h_> oh crap, and top answer has a import *
 * rick_h_ facepalms
<_stink_> record a rant!
<_stink_> there is no shortage of topics. :)
<brousch> i was especially surprised to see you there since the question was originally about pydev
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well, it was organizing your own packages, and modern-package-template helps with a lot of that
<brousch> what is paster? i can find docs on PAste, but that's web stuff
<brousch> nvm, finally found it
<jrwren> I'l go vote you up and down vote that :)
<jrwren> well, no i won't. I think that is a better answer
<jrwren> but I'll up vote ya anyway :)
<rick_h_> lol, thanks
<greg-g> brousch: yeah, it is effing good too! (the brownies)
<snap-l> Yay, I've got a file cabinet that will be delivered tomorrow
<greg-g> and to the rest of you: yes, it is a great effing brownie. I had a coworker blind taste it and they loved it, then I told them what was in it (hence that comment on the post)
<snap-l> Ordered a bike rack for our bikes
<snap-l> Looking to do some riding this year. Didn't get much of a chance last year.
<rick_h_> cool, I've got a goal of getting a new one with a kid friendly ride of some sort
<snap-l> Yeah, I want to take our bikes to get them checked out
<greg-g> yay!
<jrwren> whoa... so with js-ctypes I could call open from JS and get a fstream!?!?
<jrwren> err get a file descriptor rather?
<snap-l> I want to know why Jono Bacon's Art of Community ePub makes my ereader go for a toss
<greg-g> go for a toss? Did it also implant British English in your head?
<rick_h_> read it fine on mine :P
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> maybe he just means he's reading it "your community has gone for a toss"
<snap-l> blame working with some Indian co-workers. :)
<rick_h_> so how does one go for a toss? Is it like "I'm going to take a lunch break and play some horseshoes"?
<snap-l> rick_h_: It's a euphemism for masturbation. :)
<snap-l> only in Britis English, it sounds much more dignified.
<snap-l> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=go%20for%20a%20toss
<rick_h_> oh, that toss...nice phrase there
<snap-l> Actually, not so much
<snap-l> Usually means things are severely fucked up
<snap-l> though I thought it was a euphemistic way
<snap-l> freaky sex, apparently
<greg-g> wow
<jrwren> anyone still on XP, this made me LOL. Start->Run->Fonts (to open the windows font dir) Then in the file menu click "install new font.."  its a windows 3.1 dialog!
 * rick_h_ looks around our complete XP corporate environment...ummm
<jrwren> I know there are XP folks in here.
<greg-g> that's what a lot of the computers at the library are still running
<snap-l> jrwren: Yep, there's a lot of Win3.1isms still in XP
<greg-g> all new machiens are Win7, they did skip vista
<snap-l> I just tried it, and yes it's uuuuuugly
<snap-l> I never liked the Win3.1 dialog box for files.
<rick_h_> yea, we're supposed to be rolling out new desktops with win7 this year
<rick_h_> but let's just say it's towards the end of march and not seen any yet
<rick_h_> and I don't think win7 plays nice with our old novell ldap box
<snap-l> At the risk of getting jrwren to correct me, I don't think moving from XP to Win 7 is terribly easy.
<DBO> it is if you upgrade the apple way
<snap-l> DBO: Ala new desktop machines?
<DBO> yeps
<rick_h_> well that part is ok
<rick_h_> but the network, when you're a fake MS shop like us, is the issue
<rick_h_> ldap via novell, file share servers, keriomail exchange mail faker, etc
<rick_h_> we're wanna be AD without the AD
<snap-l> I love that my kobo has a sqlite3 database on it
<rick_h_> hey, bookie is making me like sqlite more and more (well and hate it some as well though)
<rick_h_> can you access it? view it?
<snap-l> I have a love / hate relationship with it
<snap-l> Yeah, it's under the .kobo directory
<snap-l> has .conf files under there as well
<snap-l> and a Trolltech.conf file. ;)
<rick_h_> the limits on table alterations, and the complete crap rules with fulltext indexed 'virtual tables' is maddening
<snap-l> Damn thing is probably running Qt.
<rick_h_> nice, qt based eh?
<snap-l> except this fucking thing isn't updating the library
<snap-l> and much like banshee, it takes forever to see new content when it is working
<rick_h_> ok, so the printer let's me download a driver for 'linux' that's got cups in the name, but ends in .exe
<snap-l> wine?
<rick_h_> file says "PE32 executable for MS Windows (GUI) Intel 80386 32-bit, LHa self-extracting archive"
<binbrain> don't proceed any further, might be a virus
<rick_h_> well, got it from the manufacturer site, but ok
<binbrain> do you have antivirus software installed
<rick_h_> have clamav around
<binbrain> dude, just joking
<rick_h_> :P
<binbrain> clamav, I hope your CPU is ok
<rick_h_> don't keep it running, it's installed
<jrwren> snap-l: lol, how about i agree with you. moving from XP to Win7 is not easy.
<rick_h_> hmm, so maybe I can open that up on windows and extract some ppd files or something
<jrwren> did you know PPD files can shell out to executables?
<jrwren> some mac printer drivers are PPD and then have mac-only binaries that won't work on linux.
<jrwren> stpuid dell
<rick_h_> heh, did not know that, nice
<rick_h_> ok, that worked
<rick_h_> extraxted to just a .ppd file, love plaintext
<rick_h_> sweet, and test page
<jrwren> http://signup.balanon.com/yu3m1
<jrwren> i spam channel with that link :p
<ColonelPanic001> anyone install Firefox 4 on ubuntu yet?
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: I've been running the mozilla-next PPA, so I've be following the betas just fine
<ColonelPanic001> just curious. I just put it on this macbook here at work, but haven't bothered finding the PPA or whatnot for the linux boxes yet
<ColonelPanic001> and by that I mean, I installed it today
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: btw: http://askubuntu.com/questions/6339/how-do-i-install-firefox-4/612
<brousch> rick_h_: you'd be proud of me. i'm running pylint over my code now
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: thanks
<ColonelPanic001> completely unscientific/etc, but FF4 does feel a little zippier
 * greg-g nods
<jrwren> oh it feels WAY faster.
<jrwren> not just hte JS either.
<jrwren> but i typically have 20+ tabs
<ColonelPanic001> Sync was something I've been hoping to get to trying, too. Nice
<jrwren> and just changing tabs feels far faster
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, me too
<ColonelPanic001> same here
<jrwren> js-ctypes looks awesome too
<ColonelPanic001> have a bad habit of leaving tabs laying around
<ColonelPanic001> js-ctypes?
<ColonelPanic001> hah, nice
<jrwren> you can call native C functions from js now.
<ColonelPanic001> I hadn't heard of this
<ColonelPanic001> crazy
<snap-l> Hurray, I have discovered how to do album art for both mp3 and ogg
<snap-l> Now to figure out how to programmatically do it, and then use it for both lococast and open metalcast
<rick_h_> brousch: hah, good stuff
<rick_h_> after that make sure to run pep8
<snap-l> http://blogs.forbes.com/jeffbercovici/2011/03/22/aol-folds-30-brands-including-politics-daily/ <- I'll give someone a dollar per site if they can prove that any one of these sites was in their history before today.
<snap-l> (barrig huffington post)
<jjesse> i read Luxist every day
<snap-l> screenshot, or no cash
<jjesse> lol i had no idea any of those sites existed
<snap-l> Jeez, who at PyCharm thought having 5 licenses for the same codebase was a good idea?
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> choice!
<tjagoda> mmm
<tjagoda> speedy firefox 5
<tjagoda> wow
<tjagoda> uh
<tjagoda> yeah
<tjagoda> 5
<tjagoda> bet you wish you had 5 and not 4
<snap-l> Commercial, Personal, Academic, Classroom, and Open Source
<brousch> there's also Expired, which lets you run it for 30 minutes before it shuts down
<snap-l> Why not the odd license, which allows you to run every other line of code, which you'd think might not work, but instead plays the collected organ works of Reggie Wilson
<snap-l> Sorry, but 5 licenses means I'm not touching that fucker with a 10 foot pole.
<_stink_> haha
<snap-l> (of course, what they mean is 5 different ways of paying for the software)
<brousch> ug, i used to enjoy speccing out new workstations. now it's just tedious. is this a sign of old age?
<snap-l> No, it's a sign that there aren't that many compelling options anymore?
<brousch> it's all tiny variations on cpu and graphics cards
<brousch> everything looks the same
<brousch> and this is a drafting/3d workstation, so they get fancy stuff
<windows> hey all
<snap-l> hola
<_stink_> hi
<windows> how's in going snap-l
<windows> it*
<snap-l> It goes, and goes, and ...
<snap-l> Yourself?
<windows> bout the same
<windows> at work
<snap-l> God, I hate door-to-door folks
<windows> that's understandable
<_stink_> kick them
<rick_h_> I hate mysql, that is all, wasting my freaking afternoon
<wolfger> woo
<rick_h_> that good eh?
<wolfger> It was a day...
<wolfger> normally I'm bored and/or this channel is slow, so I can keep up all day long
<wolfger> today I was busy and the channel was hopping. i gave up :-p
<wolfger> and now I'm just unwinding finally. On the plus side, my wifi finally seems to be stable. :-)
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> GBS = Google Books?
<snap-l> Yep, it is
<snap-l> A federal judge in Manhattan on Tuesday rejected Google Inc.'s settlement with authors and publishers that would allow it to make millions of books available online, saying it would give the Internet giant the ability to "exploit" books without the permission of copyright owners.
<snap-l> After all, the ability to exploit authors should be the purey of the publishers alone
<snap-l> stupid.
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> my personal opinion: the settlement went too far, over stepped what a normal class action lawsuit can do. I agree with Judge Chin's opinion. If they turn it in to an opt-in it should be fine.
<greg-g> remember, we're no longer talking about just scanning, searching, and showing snippets. The settlement gave Google a monopoly on scanning, searching, showing full books, and selling orphan books
<greg-g> my wording was a bit wrong, it gave Google only a monopoly on the orphans and showing full text part
<greg-g> from his opinion: "The case was about the use of an indexing and searching tool, not the sale of complete copyrighted works."
 * greg-g stops yaking about GBS
<binbrain> am I behind that I just found out about the glow.mozilla.org easter egg?
<greg-g> easter egg?
<binbrain> ahh huh, at least I'm not the last to find out
<ColonelPanic001> wat
<greg-g> TELL ME!
<binbrain> :)
<wolfger> what glow.mozilla.org easter egg?
<ColonelPanic001> vee have vays of making you talk
<binbrain> its only fair to hint, as that is the way I was told about it
<binbrain> hint: try the number keys
<ColonelPanic001> ARG!
<greg-g> nice
<ColonelPanic001> kill it with fire
<snap-l> ?
<snap-l> I'm messing wiht the num keys, and not getting anything
<wolfger> Nice.... glow.mozilla.org tells me to "Please find a browser that supports javascript and <canvas>. Get Firefox" despite the fact that I'm using Firefox
<greg-g> what version?
<ColonelPanic001> I'm not sure how I did it, snap-l. it only did it once, keep trying
<ColonelPanic001> "1.5"
<binbrain> it doens't seem to be consistently possible
<wolfger> Natty version.... with NoScript :-)
<snap-l> wolfger: That's likely 3.6
<Blazeix> wolfger: I have bad news for you. NoScript can adversely affect javascript.
<ColonelPanic001> there it goes again
<greg-g> I know I know, simple 2 presses
<wolfger> snap-l: it's 4.0
<greg-g> not the number 2, mind you
<snap-l> Cute. I think I found it
<wolfger> but despite me not allowing scripts wily-nily, they should be able to detect I'm using their damned product
<snap-l> wolfger: You're the one  breaking the web, not them. ;)
<wolfger> I am so ridiculously happy that I'm still online. I think this is a record.
<wolfger> 90 minutes on the hotel wifi without the realtek module crapping out
<wolfger> To celebrate, I think I'll write some code
<snap-l> http://programming-motherfucker.com/
<wolfger> Anybody running Natty want to confirm this bug for me? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/740486
<brousch> am i missing something? why would i buy a 27" 1080p monitor over a 24" 1080p monitor? wouldn't the 27" just have bigger pixels?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, but it's bigger
<rick_h_> bigger == better
<rick_h_> else why get a 42" 1080p tv over a 36" 1080p :P
<rick_h_> bah, twitter search on bookie is useless
<brousch> well for TVs it's so you can sit farther away
<snap-l> http://doctormo.org/2011/03/22/firefox-4-0-utterly-worse-than-useless/ <- Seriously? Bzip don't work on Ubuntu?
<rick_h_> don't get me started
<snap-l> I shudder to think what retardation this person is trying to personify
<Blazeix> wow, that pains me.
<rick_h_> "If my grandmother can't do it, it's too hard...why do you make me think stupid mozilla?"
<rick_h_> dammit, are you your grandmother? Does she need FF4, really?
<rick_h_> if she did, and ran linux, do you think she'd shut up and quit whining and maybe look something up?
<snap-l> Or maybe call her grandchildren?
<snap-l> yes, installing Linux software is not like installing it on a mac
<snap-l> sorry, life's a bitch
<snap-l> I'm sure granny is going to know how to install FF4 on her Windows machine if she wasn't given admin access, as well
<snap-l> They patented Google Doodles
<snap-l> http://www.shermann.name/2011/03/why-im-always-get-impression.html
<snap-l> ^ heh
<rick_h_> yea, that's what led me to the original post
<rick_h_> and that is all wrong...not elitist...just stupid
<snap-l> RT @KarlVanHoet: @danbenjamin So: Your pod-casts are not available in FLAC. Via Lynx. Which is, of course, a bug. So.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> come on, someone send it in to us, I dare you
<rick_h_> let me warm up the mic first
<snap-l> I understand Martin's problem
<snap-l> but he's putting the onus of blame on the wrong people
<rick_h_> who is martin?
<snap-l> The original "bzip no installed" dude
<rick_h_> dr schmo guy?
<snap-l> yes
<rick_h_> gotcha
<snap-l> Because it's not Firefox's problem
<snap-l> It's like complaining when you go to Astoria that they have all that sugar when you're diabetic
<snap-l> Here's a novel one: patience?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-23
<rick_h_> I've got no patience for it
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> No, I mean patience to let the damn repos populate
<rick_h_> right, and I was taking your phrase and using it back at you
<rick_h_> no patience for morons that don't have one button clicks for any single thing they might want to do with a computer
<wolfger> morning
<brousch> thank you for not including good
<wolfger> I came very close to typing "mrnng"
<wolfger> today isn't worth vowels
<rick_h_> party, time to go drive the ice
<rick_h_> wheeee
<wolfger> you got ice?
<wolfger> Just a driving misty rain here
<tjagoda> No ice here
<tjagoda> just really heavy slush
<tjagoda> I want a tank
<tjagoda> To drive to work
<tjagoda> like a German King Tiger tank
<tjagoda> that would be good
<wolfger> Yes, that would do nicely
<wolfger> traffic jam? Get out of your cars before I crush them!
<wolfger> :-)
<tjagoda> I would sell tickets to seats along the expressway
<tjagoda> so people could watch me drive over all the other motorists.
<tjagoda> "Pay for the whole seat, but you'll only need the edge!"
<tjagoda> I bet HR would complain about it though
<tjagoda> "You can't drive a weapon to work"
<wolfger> That's not a gun, it's an exhaust pipe,.
<tjagoda> So are we still logged?
<tjagoda> Because now I'm going to get fired when they google my name and see me talking about tanks and work
<tjagoda> =p
<wolfger> don't kid yourself
<wolfger> you were going to get fired anyway.
<wolfger> :-)
<tjagoda> Point conceded
<tjagoda> Mmm firefox 4
<tjagoda> fast fast
<wolfger> What, you just now got on that?
<wolfger> geez
<tjagoda> I got it yesterday
<tjagoda> used the beta for a while until it borked
<wolfger> You should be running Natty Alpha. You'd have had it for a while now
<tjagoda> I had a right click menu which included every possible right click option
<tjagoda> I had to page through it to find things
<tjagoda> on this 22" monitor
<tjagoda> Do not want unity
<tjagoda> DO NOT WANT
<tjagoda> Linux mint looks interesting though =P
<wolfger> Don't want Unity? Fine. Don't use it. That's an option from the login screen, you know....
<wolfger> Also, can load other WMs :-p
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> come to the rick side
<rick_h_> sudo apt-get install awesome
<wolfger> LOL
<tjagoda> I swapped into classic gnome mode
<tjagoda> I still dont have my file menus
<tjagoda>  /rage
<snap-l> I <3 my iPhone
<snap-l> Had a meeting get canceled around 2am
<rick_h_> ?!
<snap-l> so the thing went "bleep" and vibrated.
<rick_h_> yay for waking me up at 2am
<rick_h_> ?
<tjagoda> In stuff like firefox, where they've removed/customized the menu bars for Unity, it still shows the same in Gnome classic mode
<snap-l> Not really
<snap-l> Got my whole sleep schedule off, so I was awake, and able to get into dream sleep about 40 minutes before the alarm went off
<snap-l> needless to say, that was not ideal to get up
<wolfger> tjagoda: you mean the whole "menu bar is moved to the top of the screen" thing? Yeah, that sucks
<wolfger> Just go Kubuntu
<wolfger> you can still install all your favorite apps
<tjagoda> no
<wolfger> or Xubuntu is probably a better fit for you
<tjagoda> I like the menu bar at the top
<wolfger> ...
<tjagoda> In firefox, for unity, they removed file/edit/view
<wolfger> so drag it up there
<wolfger> lazy
<tjagoda> when I switch into classic gnome
<tjagoda> it still does not come back
<tjagoda>  /rage
<wolfger> It's not removed, it's moved
<tjagoda> Are you using it in classic gnome mode?
<tjagoda> I did this literally on Saturday with the daily build
<wolfger> fun stuff, really. The menu bar moved to the top of the screen instead of the actual app window (lame!) and auto-hides (lamer!)
<tjagoda> Are you using it in classic gnome mode?
<wolfger> and possibly you need to file a bug report if it's broken in non-Unity Gnome
<tjagoda> It might do that in unity
<wolfger> I use Unity
<tjagoda> but in non-unity it's all just gone
<wolfger> bug, bug, bug report
<wolfger> quickly, before they stop fixing things
<wolfger> :-)
<tjagoda> Didn't even know it was a bug
<tjagoda> Assumed it was intentional
<tjagoda> =p
<wolfger> once it hits beta, you're screwed XD
<wolfger> I'll try classic Gnome tonight and see if I can see your issue
<tjagoda> I'll turn into rick
<tjagoda> using crack window managers that nobody supports
<tjagoda> =P
<wolfger> sudo apt-get install xmonad
<wolfger> or e17
<wolfger> or awesome
 * wolfger wonders if rick_h_ has his chat client notify him when the word "awesome" is typed....
<jrwren> e17 is the bomb
<wolfger> I need to give e17 on Natty a try
<rick_h_> heh, no notice for that
<rick_h_> but I'll look at adding it
<brousch> well i put together a crackerjack CAD and 3D station for $1100. I feel good about that
<rick_h_> cool
<brousch> it's been so long since i bought something for someone else, i forgot to add on the windows license
<wolfger> Heh
<brousch> Gigabyte MB with SATA III and USB 3; Phenom II x4 840 3.2GHz CPU; 8GB Kingston DDR3 1333 RAM; OCZ Vertex 2 120GB SSD; Nvidia Quadro 600 1GB graphics card
<brousch> oh, and 24" HD samsung lcd
<brousch> a quad-core cpu running at 3.2ghz for $110 blows my mind
<rick_h_> woot, verizone LTE rollout hitting more of MI: Flint, Mich., Grand Rapids, Mich., Lansing, Mich., Saginaw-Bay City, Mich.
<rick_h_> the detroit rollout hit my house
<rick_h_> so man I can't wait for an LTE phone/mifi
<tjagoda> What speeds can you pull with LTE?
<rick_h_> 20+M
<rick_h_> with 2-3M up in my test at work
<rick_h_> in other words, about the same as my 18M down, 1.5M up uverse
<brousch> i suspect verizon will hop on att's new charge unauthorized tetherers campaign
<rick_h_> that's fine, I'll pay for it
<rick_h_> I wanted to when I signed up and couldn't because they didn't have the plan option
<brousch> heh
<rick_h_> they've added it now, but I've not gone and signed up since I don't use it a ton
<rick_h_> but yea, an email arrival would have me on the site upgrading asap
<rick_h_> especially after I hammered it at pycon for a week
<rick_h_> doing 1gb uploads over night to snap-l
<brousch> nice
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> though I do miss my att tethered speeds, noticably slower on verizon, but LTE will fix that
<brousch> um, very nice guys (i'm upgrading from samba 3.0 to 3.5) "Please read this chapter carefully before update or upgrading Samba. You should expect to find only critical or very important information here. Comprehensive change notes and guidance information can be found in the section http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/upgrading-to-3.0.html.
<brousch> Important Samba-3.2.x Change Notes
<brousch> !!!!!!!!!!!!Add all critical update notes here!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
<jrwren> ?
<snap-l> ie: published before they put in all of the critical update notes
<brousch> yeah, but samba3.5 is in 10.04, so it's been sitting like that for a long time
<brousch> maybe there weren't any critical update notes
<jrwren> 3.5 eh?
<jrwren> wow, i never noticed.
<snap-l> Hm, I've never checked out cchits.net
<jrwren> i do hate it when defaults for smb.conf global values change.
<brousch> i actually have to do this in 2 steps. move everything off of my samba2 server to a server running samba 3.0, then from there onto a new samba 3.5 server
<snap-l> interesting stuff.
<jrwren> you have a samba2 server?
<jrwren> how old is that?
<jrwren> 1999?
<brousch> ubuntu 6.06 baby
<jrwren> wow. impressive
<jrwren> i'm super surprised samba4 with AD compat has never come out.
<jrwren> if you would have told me that 8 yrs ago that it wouldn't be out in 8 years, i would not have believed.
<brousch> they've been working on samba4 forever
<jrwren> i guess some things you just can't do open source.
<brousch> still in alpha :(
<brousch> 4.0alpha15
<jrwren> samba4:server::e17:desktop
<jrwren> :)
<snap-l> Any interest in organizing a room party at Penguicon for the loco?
<wolfger> snap-l: organizing, or attending? ;-)
<snap-l> Any interest in organizing a room party at Penguicon for the  loco?
<snap-l> as in making one happen. :)
<wolfger> I'll make one happen by showing up at your room :)
<wolfger> But it would have to be Friday night for me
<wolfger> Or really, really early Sunday morning. :-D
<wolfger> what do you need in the way of assitance in making it happen.
<jrwren> lol, he iddn't ask for assistance, he said "someone go do this please"
<jrwren> but its awesome how you volonteered him like that.
<snap-l> Well, I'm figuring out the release party that is supposed to happen on the same weekend
<snap-l> And room parties entail having the use of something called a "room"
<snap-l> Which the Hotel will gladly rent to us
<wolfger> except I believe the hotel is booked
<wolfger> I do not think
<wolfger> Allison would appreciate me using our room for this
<wolfger> so....
<snap-l> would or would not?
<wolfger> That should have been one line
<wolfger> "I do not think she would"
<wolfger> i.e. "she would not"
<snap-l> Yeah, that's what I thought
<snap-l> JoDee would have my head as well
<snap-l> and we're decidedly not in the party block
<wolfger> I think the question boils down to: "anybody got a room they're willing to use for this?
<snap-l> so unless someone has a room to donate to the cause, that would be a definite "no"
<wolfger> yeah, we also get the quiet block, for Allison :-p
<snap-l> we got the quiet block for both of us, because while I can sleep through hell, I'd rather not try. ;)
<wolfger> I like to stay up and party, and her opinion is "fine... you can *walk* to your parties, I'd like to sleep"
<wolfger> how inconvenient for me
<wolfger> but she doesn't see it that way
<ColonelPanic001> I actually bothered to get a room at the hotel this year. No idea if it's a quiet one or not, I told them I preferred it, but if it was getting filled up, I didn't mind a "regular" one
<rick_h_> oh, thanks snap-l
<rick_h_> reminding me to do the reminder
<rick_h_> ok, so this is kind of funny
<snap-l> rick_h_: ?
<rick_h_> boss sends email: "I've moved the url of site xxxx.com to blahblahblahlong.company.com"
<rick_h_> reply email "Thank you, I assume you meant blahblahblahlong@company.com"
 * snap-l checks to see if either of those urls resolve. ;)
<rick_h_> so I read it first thing this morning and they matched
<rick_h_> wtf, whatever
<rick_h_> then boss caught it and replied "No, your address is an email address, I did not move the site to an email"
<wolfger> :-)
<snap-l> Isn't that like cloud computing?
<rick_h_> I swear I read it three times and didn't notice the @
<snap-l> I've moved our site to the email
<rick_h_> just auto converted
<snap-l> I'm telnetting to they keyboard
<rick_h_> I mean, did he try to load up @company.com in his browser? "Hmm, the site appears to be down"
<rick_h_> it just keeps launching outlook
<snap-l> It sounds so mystical in my head
<snap-l> rick_h_: It's the brain trying to make sense of the world.
<snap-l> and your boss knows that you wouldn't want to move the site to the e-mail
<snap-l> so he likely read it correctly
<snap-l> and you read it correctly
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> my brain "it can't possibly be this stupid, eyes...just alter that up a bit"
<snap-l> and it was correct. Eventually, we shall all be moved to the e-mail
<wolfger> I love the way the brain routes around stupid
<snap-l> I shall now be forever known as craig@decafbad.net
<wolfger> unfortunately, it also routes around "correct, but unexpected"
<rick_h_> heh, we need an email api for bookie
<snap-l> as long as I keep the domain registered.
<rick_h_> recent@rick.bmark.us will reply with recent bookmarks
<rick_h_> recent.page.2@rick.bmark.us
<rick_h_> tags@, this is genius!
<snap-l> I will hunt you down and kill you if you implement that.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> come on, auto replies to you, with links in the email
<snap-l> you think implementing solr is hard? try munging e-mail addresses
<rick_h_> search.amazon@
<wolfger> snap-l: this channel is logged. That idea is in the wild. Somebody somewhere will implement it now
<rick_h_> we could be the kind of bookmark services in the 3rd world
<rick_h_> "to save this web page to your bookmarks, text xxxx"
<rick_h_> operate entirely over text messages, email
<wolfger> "You've reached Google. To search the web, text "1"; to search images, text "2"; to search....."
<jrwren> pastebin?
<rick_h_> paste.mitechie.com ?
<snap-l> paste.ubuntu.com
<wolfger> paste@mitechie.com
<snap-l> i.eat.paste
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> ty
<snap-l> I need to make a subdomain for that on my site
<snap-l> a pastebin called ieatpaste.decafbad.net
<jrwren> pastebin.com wanted me to enable cookies. pfff
<rick_h_> meh, I think lodgeit will as well, at least if you do it alerts you to replies/etc
<binbrain> need.... coffee....
<rick_h_> yay, we got lococast feedback, and from randall scwartz
<rick_h_> to complain about our pronounciation
<rick_h_> lol
<_stink_> haha
<snap-l> seriously?
<wolfger> :-)
<rick_h_> yea, forwarded you the email snap-l
<rick_h_> and a quick google pulled up: http://danielmiessler.com/blog/how-to-pronounce-os-x-proof-from-apple
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> Please stop saying "snap EL", it's clearly pronounced "Your grace"
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> I'll start saying H T T P colon backslash
<snap-l> That's my nails-on-chalkboard
<snap-l> I think we should lead off the show with that e-mail. ;)
<snap-l> though I fear it'll get bitchy way too quickly.
<rick_h_> ok, bcc'd you on the reply
<rick_h_> naw, that's ok. hey, it's feedback and that's cool. Never really thought about it
<rick_h_> I know I hear oh-ess-ex a lot, now I'll have to pay attention where I hear which ones
<rick_h_> but still, means he's listened to a show or two
<snap-l> I'm trying to remember when we've said osx
<snap-l> Mac Oh-Sex
<snap-l> Mac-OS-X
<snap-l> I could have way too much fun with this
<rick_h_> heh, calm down
<snap-l> DOS, Dose
<rick_h_> ugh, had the password vs ssh-key debate with a guy
<rick_h_> doesn't help when he doesn't know/understand how to use ssh-keys
<snap-l> ssh keys seem realy complicated until you understand the beauty of them
<snap-l> then they become your preferred method
<rick_h_> yea, he's all "well one attach and suddenly they can access my whole network"
<snap-l> which is why you use a pass-phrase
<rick_h_> right
<snap-l> and you don't use screen at a level where it matters.
<snap-l> ie: screen after you've authed,not before
<_stink_> wait, i don't understand what that means
<snap-l> which is just bad practice anyway
<_stink_> his quote
<snap-l> _stink_: which, keys, or screen?
<jrwren> hey... i want to hear about the pronounciation... pastebin that email
<_stink_> "well one attach and suddenly they can access my whole network"
<snap-l> jrwren: Basically, he was correcting our O S X pronounciation as "OS Ten"
<jrwren> if you odn't understand SSH keys, then you don't understand SSL
<jrwren> its a damn shame client side SSL Certs were never used more widely, more people would understand.
<snap-l> _stink_: I read it that if you have screen running locally on your machine, someone could attach to that running procees and acccess the network via your auth
<snap-l> _stink_: Which is not a best practice by any stretch
<jrwren> only if you leave ssh sessions open. don't leave 'em open in scren.
<_stink_> ohhh
<_stink_> i see.
<jrwren> i know you do.
<jrwren> bash his head in until he does ;P
<_stink_> physical security always trumps anyway.
<jrwren> of course.
<_stink_> don't let people sit down at an unlocked machine. :)
<jrwren> but its a lot easier to call local police for breaking and entering.
<snap-l> And don't leave sensitive screen sessions open on an unlocked machine
<_stink_> for sure.
<_stink_> or just use a really obscure window manager and switch to a different display group!
<snap-l> And if you use a passphrase, you get the security of both passwords and ssh keys.
<snap-l> _stink_: Security by obscurity is never good. ;)
<_stink_> snap-l: it's "something you know" :P
<_stink_> my prefix key
<_stink_> a one key password.
<snap-l> xterm and a vi of your config, and I'm in. ;)
<_stink_> do'h
<_stink_> i guess i shouldn't go to the bathroom at work
 * _stink_ buys diapers
<jrwren> i lock my windows desktop mostly because of my ssh agent running, not much because of hte desktop itself.
<jrwren> what are you talking about "one key password" and "xterm and vi of config" what does that mean?
<_stink_> jrwren: i was joking that i 'lock' my machine by switching to a blank group in my tiling wm.
<_stink_> and no key will do anything until you find the prefix key.
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> i get it now.
<rick_h_> _stink_: ++ I joke that's why I use awesome WM, no menus to click on
<_stink_> tiling wms: confound the criminals and hackers!
<wolfger> Yeah, using xmonad and switching to a blank workspace would utterly confound anybody who doesn't know tiling wm's
<wolfger> Heh. I filed a bug that xmonad wasn't working after I installed it, because I couldn't do anything and had to kill X to get out of it.
<wolfger> then I read the manual....
<_stink_> hehehe
<rick_h_> lmao, awesome
<wolfger> well, I had a bookmark for an xmonad walk-through
<binbrain> anyone finds a tiling wm that doesn't have the aesthetic of twm, I'm all game
<wolfger> My idea was, install xmonad, fire up Firefox, and do the walkthrough
<wolfger> couldn't figure out how to fire up Firefox, or anything else.
<rick_h_> what's the "aesthetic of twm"?
<rick_h_> wolfger: actually, been there
<rick_h_> didn't get so far as filing a bug though
<wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> rick_h_: Have you use twm?
<wolfger> well, I *am* on Natty...
<wolfger> so I assumed it was a bug
<snap-l> It was the window manager that was the prevursor of fvwm
<rick_h_> oh, no. I thought twm was short for tiling window manager as a group
<binbrain> ahh, good guess, but no
<rick_h_> so thought he was saying "if there was a tiling WM without being ugly, etc I'd use it"
<binbrain> bingo
<snap-l> http://xwinman.org/screenshots/twm-keppler.gif
<rick_h_> but that's the thing, what's there to be ugly when you don't see anything but your apps?
<snap-l> twm in it's glory
<rick_h_> hah, nice
<rick_h_> well, pick a terminal that does pretty TTF and you're golden
<snap-l> http://linuxnetmag.berlios.de/share/screenshot_twm.gif
<rick_h_> ugh, wtf is with that top bar
<snap-l> It was hugely customizable, but it started off with some pretty god-awful defaults.
<rick_h_> booo
<snap-l> That's called a minimize bar. ;)
<rick_h_> and no chrome allowed on windows/apps
<rick_h_> you don't drag them aroudn, that's not tiling
<wolfger> purist
<rick_h_> <4
<rick_h_> heh, <3
<binbrain> I think I'm going to learn swig today
<rick_h_> http://uploads.mitechie.com/awesome2.png
<rick_h_> what's not to love
<_stink_> i think <4 should be a new mem
<_stink_> meme
<_stink_> for extra love
<snap-l> I think it already is
<snap-l> rick_h_: What's not to love... Um....
<_stink_> damn, thought i came up with a meme.
<rick_h_> _stink_: that's ok, works for me
<snap-l> http://eclim.org/_images/screenshots/vim/gnu_screen_shell.png <- It looks a lot like this?
<rick_h_> holy crap, what's with the bookie new peeps
<rick_h_> snap-l: naw, I'm using gvim :P
<snap-l> You must've been mentioned somewhere
<rick_h_> and tabs
<rick_h_> (in my terminal that is)
<snap-l> http://www.lartmaker.nl/gallery/vt220.jpg < Which feels a lot like this?
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> saw the potential to head there
<_stink_> haha
<brousch> damn you guys are gabby today
<snap-l> I blame the weather
<rick_h_> yea, I'm waiting on an email reply
<rick_h_> and I busted butt yesterday so less motivated today since I got 99% of the stuff done for today
<rick_h_> here snap-l, this isn't my current space, but should feel a bit less like your last example photo: http://uploads.mitechie.com/awesome.png
<snap-l> _much_ better
<snap-l> now it's a sea of grey and black instead of a sea of grey.
<snap-l> http://dependentongadgets.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/amstrad_cpc464.jpg
<rick_h_> http://uploads.mitechie.com/awesome3.png
<snap-l> I think that keyboard might have clicky keys.
<_stink_> gahaha
<rick_h_> for a bit more modern taste
<rick_h_> ooh, clicky
<rick_h_> actually moved to using that happy hacker today
<rick_h_> I keep liking it when I use it, if only the clicky version was $300
<snap-l> http://paulq.org/c64/C128.jpg <- Now you're a bit more modern
<rick_h_> oh, external drive
<rick_h_> more power!
<_stink_> that a 128?
<_stink_> oh, VIC
<snap-l> No, C128
<_stink_> ah, ok
<_stink_> man
<snap-l> I give rick_h_ some credit. He at least uses 80 col
<_stink_> i'm still sad we gave away our C64.
<snap-l> http://www.vintagecomputing.com/wp-content/images/interviews/bushnell/atari800_large.jpg <- this is more my speed.
<rick_h_> well, today's screenshot, the first one is not my code so it's not 80 yet
<_stink_> not like there are a billion of them out there.
<snap-l> _stink_: I can get you one cheap
<rick_h_> not done cleaning it up
<_stink_> snap-l: what's cheap?
<snap-l> I know people who have (or had) several
<snap-l> Let me do some asking
<_stink_> snap-l: <4
<snap-l> If it's just the unit you want, that's easy
<snap-l> drives and software are a little harder to come by.
<rick_h_> we need widox invovled, he's the example of 'modern tiling WM user'
<_stink_> yeah, i think it'd still be worth it.
<rick_h_> since he runs it inside gnome
<greg-g> oh hey! I'm in your screenshot (of tweetdeck)
 * greg-g is barely keeping up from clicking all those links ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Yeah, I suck. ;)
<jrwren> I prefer my 800XL
<snap-l> http://hld.c64.org/poldi/lunix/lunix.html
<jrwren> the basic on atari 800XL was just so sexy.
<snap-l> jrwren: Atari4Life
<jrwren> well, yes and no.
<jrwren> I think I'm not interested in anything that doesn't have a tcp/ip stack and ethernet of some sort.
<snap-l> Not a fan of the Atari ST, I take it?
<jrwren> I had and still have an Amiga1000
<snap-l> jrwren: You haven't been keeping up. ;)
<jrwren> oh, i know there are hacks, but its not interesting to me.
<snap-l> http://www.kl.net/atari/
<snap-l> I still miss the Atari computer
<jrwren> why?
<jrwren> I don't.
<jrwren> i like where we are going.
<snap-l> It was a nice computer
<snap-l> Oh, don't get me wrong
<snap-l> I love the fact that I'm using a computer that is based on UNIX
<jrwren> I miss the fun and feeling of computing back then.
<jrwren> but I think that is because I was young and it was young.
<snap-l> ++
<jrwren> it was definitely a special time
<snap-l> I miss the feeling of discovery
<snap-l> now it just feels like work
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> I think that is age.
<snap-l> I can't just draw a circle on the screen, now I have to make it 3D
<jrwren> although I do get passionate about discovering things these days, its just not the same.
<jrwren> Sphere(0,0,0) :)
<snap-l> gr.8
<jrwren> when I was learning WPF, one of the first things I did was try to write my old standby atari line drawing routine.
<jrwren> I did it, and I learned a lot, but it was a bitch and performed for shit.
<jrwren> the atari was actually faster, lol
<rick_h_> jrwren: did you watch the superboard pycon talk?
<rick_h_> you'd love it I think
<jrwren> i mean, its comparing apples to donuts, but still
<jrwren> superboard?
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> i'll look it up
<rick_h_> http://pycon.tv/#/video/90
<greg-g> mmm, apples and donuts
<jrwren> http://dabeaz.blogspot.com/2011/03/superboard-takes-pycon.html ?
<jrwren> greg-g: you have to wait until late August to get the good ones :)
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> jrwren: that's the one
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, out of season and all. Oranges are starting (heck, have been for a while) to suck.
<jrwren> ah... reading the beginning of that superboard post is cool.. i respect that stuff, but its really not my thing.
<rick_h_> wife says it's strawberry time? mmmm strawberry and cream
<jrwren> retro style computing for hobbyists is interesting, but I enjoy the more practicle applications of modern computing.
<jrwren> its damned early for MI strawberries.
<jrwren> but if you pay top dollar you can get some hoop house strawberries :)
<snap-l> I actually bought a copy of Steve Jackson's OGRE for the Atari ST so I could play it
<snap-l> they don't make games like that anymore
<snap-l> packaging and such
<snap-l> Comes with a manual explaining how the AI does it's thing
<snap-l> and a radiation badge
<jrwren> which is the superboard pycon video?
<rick_h_> the link above, video/90
<snap-l> http://blip.tv/file/4878868
<jrwren> that is just showing me all of videos
<jrwren> ty snap-l
<snap-l> thank Miro. ;)
<rick_h_> the pycon.tv link is nice because search works vs the blip site which fails at search
<jrwren> weirdwhy does this superboard sound so familiar?
<jrwren> maybe people were talking about it at codemash?
<jrwren> I know I read about it some a while back.
<rick_h_> not sure
<snap-l> jrwren: I think so
<snap-l> I have one of the newer Ohio Scientific computers as one of my backgrounds
<jrwren> remember when we refered to things as "peripherals" ?
<jrwren> now we dont' call components that.
<snap-l> Now we just call them by their name: USB Humping dog
<jrwren> how did he get the superboard outputting to an LCD?
<jrwren> must be a VGA LCD?
<snap-l> Might be an old TV as well
<jrwren> even still, you'd have to break out the RGB from teh composite video to go to VGA
<jrwren> oh, could be an old LCD TV with composite video, good call.
<snap-l> It may have an RF adapter.
<jrwren> usually it was composite out and then to RF adapter
<snap-l> right
<jrwren> oh, but I see what you mean, if it is a TV that isn't digital only
<jrwren> oh! beautiful amiga monitor.
<jrwren> i have that monitor
<jrwren> his slide at 4:44
<snap-l> Yeah, I still have a goldstar 13" monitor  that I used for my Atari
<jrwren> they were great displays
<snap-l> that was our TV when we first got married.
<jrwren> very good dotpitch for the time.
<snap-l> 11:00 is awesome as hell
<snap-l> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LqUCxF9-HLuWzKGGLPmpkqv_CiZ9cbYle6H_BpP-gDo?feat=directlink
<snap-l> My old computer
<jrwren> i don't see a computer.
<snap-l> It's in there somewhere
<jrwren> i see a woman, part of a keyboard, a monitor, and a palm.
<snap-l> That's after we moved
<jrwren> oh, htere it is on the floor
<snap-l> Priorities. ;)
<snap-l> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/y4JbxuujDTqzQalGEBh3wKv_CiZ9cbYle6H_BpP-gDo?feat=directlink <- Entertainment center. ;)
<jrwren> snap-l: rofl.
<jrwren> snap-l: mine currently is not very different than that.
<jrwren> i have an ikea cabinet with doors to hide the reciever, xbox1, and VCR, but on top of it sits a 13" CRT
<snap-l> Yeah, same here. Changed the DVD player, added some speaker stands, added a 32" LCD TV, and lost the VCR.
<jrwren> the VCR only exists to do composite to RF conversion from the xbox to the 13" TV
<snap-l> jrwren: I did that initially for the DVD player, but the stupid macrovision crap made it impossible to play a DVD video through the VCR
<jrwren> ugh, lame.
<snap-l> This presentation is 10 ways of awesome.
<rick_h_> snap-l: the superboard talk?
<snap-l> Yeah, I hadn't watched it yet.
<rick_h_> it's one of those "have to watch just for fun" talks
<rick_h_> it was all the rage at pycon
<rick_h_> I still need to watch a few myself, zed shaw's is next on my list
<jrwren> zed was at pycon?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> he gave a talk on 0mq
<wolfger> jrwren, snap-l: we now refer to "peripherals" as "usb devices". Because that's what almost everything is now.
<rick_h_> accessories
<wolfger> no more "15 different ports for 12 different things"
<rick_h_> DBO: hey howdy
<krondor> So doing PHP on n
<krondor> Woops wrong window
<rick_h_> on n?
<rick_h_> heh
<snap-l> He means the http://www.ncomputing.com/
<snap-l> Office in a box solution
<greg-g> thin clients?
<DBO> howdy rick_h_ :)
<rick_h_> DBO: you get the email on the google doc?
<rick_h_> just wanted to make sure before thurs
<DBO> yeah going to fill it out after tonights release :)
<DBO> just for my own reference
<rick_h_> k, cool
<rick_h_> yea, most people do
<rick_h_> but not required by any means
<DBO> how many people are going to hear this?
<rick_h_> well, bout 200+ rss feed subscribers, about 1k downloads of all material past month
<rick_h_> so not a ton, but hopefully this will come out good and we can plug it a lot as some good required listening with natty coming
<DBO> awesome
<DBO> mostly just curious, Im not super used to talking about unity without a keyboard to filter it, so I'll do my best
<rick_h_> yea, well we record/edit
<rick_h_> so if anything doens't come out right as you speak just let us know and we'll tweak it
<rick_h_> but sometimes lack of filter is good :)
<DBO> :)
<ColonelPanic001> I do not like this Rick's Rant about part time developers
<_stink_> hah
<ColonelPanic001> It reminds me that I have to cut that out. I've been sliding to that
<_stink_> YEAH
<ColonelPanic001> stfu, you.
<ColonelPanic001> :P
<_stink_> i haven't heard it yet.
<ColonelPanic001> ep. 4
<ColonelPanic001> although to be fair, since this new job, everything I do is stuff I'd never touched before. Ruby, mobile dev, etc
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't written a line of Perl in ages, and that's my 'native language'
<widox> rick_h_: modern wm user?
<rick_h_> using WM inside of gnome
<widox> nah, I run awesome proper
<rick_h_> oh do you? I thought you ran it in gnome
<widox> I use some gnome bits
<widox> nm, battery stuff
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001: I felt the same way when I heard that rant
<wolfger> except my reaction was less "stfu, you" and more "I need to get out to some meetings again"
<wolfger> ...and while more eyes are on the screen than last night... Anybody care to confirm my Gwibber bug on Natty?
<ColonelPanic001> heh, no, the "stfu" was for _stink_ ;)
<ColonelPanic001> but yeah, that too.
<ColonelPanic001> the meetings thing too, I mena
<ColonelPanic001> I use gwibber, but I'm on Maverick
<_stink_> i accept the stfu
<ColonelPanic001> _stink_: by saying so, you didn't.
<_stink_> i can't win
<ColonelPanic001> what's sad is that I've done that exact rant before, without the nicer name
<ColonelPanic001> people that just learn what's in a basic "learn in 24 hours" book and are fine there. Never even just glance at a mailing list or an rss feed
<wolfger> ColonelPanic001: Maybe you can verify it for Mav, too... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/740486
<ColonelPanic001> I'll give it a shot.
<wolfger> I normally avoid Gwibber like the plague it is, but I figure I'll be a good Alpha user and try things out, report bugs
<ColonelPanic001> trying it now. Removed both accounts, added identica account
<ColonelPanic001> it's still showing the twirly refresh thing
<ColonelPanic001> works fine for me
<ColonelPanic001> removed both, added identica, loaded it fine
<greg-g> yeah, not sure how I would test that without a fresh vm
<snap-l> new file cabinets are... big
<snap-l> Forgot to check letter sized vs. legal sized
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: though, what you just did is a good data point, a comment might be worthwhile
<ColonelPanic001> will-do
<ColonelPanic001> done
<ColonelPanic001> well, I've now given back to the FOSS community. I'm done.
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001++
<ColonelPanic001>  /part
<greg-g>  /kick
<ColonelPanic001> ;)
<greg-g> :P
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: OpenMetalCast is an awesome idea, thanks for doing it
<wolfger> somebody must die
<wolfger> I just tried to view a log file in vim. A rather large log file.
 * ColonelPanic001 prepares a list of suggestions
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<wolfger> ctrl-f didn't work
<wolfger> shift-g didn't work
<wolfger> k didn't work
<wolfger> l and h worked....
<wolfger> I'm like, "wtf?"
<wolfger> The entire log file is *ONE LINE*
<wolfger> half a meg of text on a single line
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<wolfger> help me, vim guru rick_h_; Is there any sane way to handle this? ;-)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> yea, so vim commands ootb treat a wrapped line as one line
<rick_h_> if you want to support 'fake' lines that are wrapped you need a tweak
<rick_h_> sec, let me get my .vimrc up
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/.vimrc#L278
<rick_h_> wolfger: ^^
<rick_h_> so you can either map those
<rick_h_> or what they're doing is using g* to move wrapped lines
<rick_h_> so j/k move one real line, gj/gk will move a wrapped line
<wolfger> ok, cool. Thanks!
<greg-g> without even missing a beat, rick_h_ swoops in with the solution and a link to code
<rick_h_> hey, hit me on a good day in a good subject and I can be useful, I promise :)
<greg-g> :)
<wolfger> reminds me of http://xkcd.com/208/
<ColonelPanic001> YES
<_stink_> http://blog.xkcd.com/2011/03/19/radiation-chart/
<_stink_> nice
<ColonelPanic001> amusing that newspapers use a web comic as a scientific source
<rick_h_> yea, but you have to give credit, it's backed by a real scientist and he did a great job with that
<_stink_> for sure
<_stink_> i think it's more a comment on newspapers :P
<_stink_> it's an awesome chart.
<_stink_> it should be posted everywhere
<ColonelPanic001> it is - I meant amusing as in "my god, newspapers are uninformed"
<snap-l> Considering that folks hear "nuclear" and immediately think of three-mile-island and chernobyl, I think it's warranted
<snap-l> since it shows what happens
<DBO> rick_h_, you go to reddit much?
<rick_h_> DBO: yea
<rick_h_> well, follow a few of the subs in rss
 * ColonelPanic001 reddits.
<DBO> i was thinking I could post a thing to r/Ubuntu basically asking them for questions we could answer after the interview portion
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<DBO> field a couple community questions, and drive you guys an additional audience
<rick_h_> yea, we've posted stuff after we've got it up, but not done pre before
<DBO> pre is the way to go
<DBO> its like crack to redditors
<rick_h_> yea, I'm cranking at work right now, but at CHC tonight we'll put out a blog post and twitter/reddit it
<snap-l> Hey, that would be great!
<DBO> I did an AMA on there for unity dev
<rick_h_> snap-l: don't let me forget to do a request for questions then tonight on the lococast blog
<DBO> it went nuts
<rick_h_> k, back to orm/sql fun
<DBO> when you post to reddit, do a self post, it is seen as less "karma whorish"
<rick_h_> k
<brousch> question #1 WHY DO YOU HATE GNOME?
<brousch> you must yell when you ask
<snap-l> brousch: Man, don't take my question
<snap-l> Question #2: Why do you hate freedom and apple pie?
<snap-l> Question #3: When did you stop loving RMS?
<brousch> on a scale of 1 to 1000 â 1 being hitler and 1000 being a crotch-kick from chuck norris - how awesome is unity?
<snap-l> somewhere between warm strawberry jello and liver and onions.
<brousch> hm, both of those sound pretty good to me
<brousch> i'm sold!
<_stink_> hey, i like liver and onions.
<ColonelPanic001> I liked liver and onions, before I gave up red meat
<ColonelPanic001> I don't get people's revulsion to it
<snap-l> I used to like it
<snap-l> then I had it once, and it make me sick as hell
<snap-l> and now I can't stand being in the same room with it
 * brousch knows what he's bringing to the bug jam
<_stink_> mmm
<snap-l> brousch: Only if you want a repeat of that episode
<snap-l> trust me, the only highlight was playing laser blast and getting the highest score I've ever gotten on that game
<brousch> it could be amusing
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrxov-2-S6k
<snap-l> Tracfone sucks
<rick_h_> oh hell yea
<snap-l> Managed to give someone 180 minutes because I put in the wrong phone number
<snap-l> so, bully for them
<snap-l> That's two mistakes I've made. ;)
<rick_h_> old: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/E1LcvMRHbsul9yDPtMjN/
<rick_h_> new: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/NhB4Mu61BEqCbodFzDZF/
<rick_h_> <3 python
<snap-l> God that first one is the stuff of nightmares
<rick_h_> yea, welcome to my world
<rick_h_> changes today caused this fragile to blow up in spades
<rick_h_> that's just the counter part
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/zWIgtWfyIneaKxAmZkce/
<rick_h_> even better
<Blazeix> wow, that first link makes me unreasonably angry.
<rick_h_> yea, you can see why it's come up for removall
<rick_h_> worst is that all that was in a function call, with another loop like that to generate another count, sql query results, etc
<greg-g> where was that quote from someone who said "Sony, don't mess with people who put linux on their playstations. You just can't win." (paraphrased badly)
<krondor> That was from the last chaos convention
<snap-l> Anyone interested in doing a panel discussion for Natty at Penguicon?
<snap-l> Some days it's not worth chewing out of the straps
<rick_h_> Blazeix: so showed my boss the default dict trick/cleanup
<rick_h_> "Now *THAT's* what I call a trick! Though I would say my original version is more "understandable"."
<rick_h_> ugh
<snap-l> bull fucking shit
<snap-l> bull fucking shit
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> His was liable to be wrong at  some point and just fall through
<rick_h_> that's what I said, as you add more types, mine handles it without code changes
<rick_h_> his needs new rows for every single type
<snap-l> exactly
<rick_h_> but whatever, at least the first part came across that it was "a good trick"
<Blazeix> I do agree that the second link is probably what I would choose when working on a group project
<Blazeix> the third link is elegant, but I've seen people really freak out as soon as they lambdas enter the mix.
<gamerchick02> Would anyone in Michigan be interested in an Ubuntu Hour in Saginaw in late April or early May?
<gamerchick02> i'd really like to do one, but i don't know if there's anyone around here that'd help. or something.
<gamerchick02> i don't think i have the chops to deal with that one person who'll come up and ask a bunch of uber technical questions.
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, but once you see it you can understand it and see how deep it goes right away
<rick_h_> the example I sent him was from a different section of code that was 5 dicts deep
<rick_h_> so you'd have to add 5 levels if If xxx in dict: else dict[xxx] = defaultdict
<rick_h_> now we can debate onthe 5 levels deep anyway, but it's the way it is for now
<rick_h_> but anyway, lamdas throw me sometimes as well. I actually got that part from a online post
<rick_h_> the second was where my brain stopped
<Blazeix> yeah, the lambdas there are more of a hack because the inner defaultdict in defaultdict(defaultdict(int)) would be an object
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> interesting fun
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-24
<jrwren> can anyone tell me about twisted internet listenTCP and Protocol ?
<rick_h_> nope, haven't looked at it, but man twisted is all over and I'll have ot check it out eventually
<wolfger> No tjagoda?
<wolfger> Just wanted to let him know he's cracked about not having the menu bar in classic Gnome :-p
<jrwren> holy shit.. I think i grok twisted Protocol well enough now and the use of it in play2wifi just blew my mind.
<jrwren> I'd have never thought to do it that way
<rick_h_> DBO: what's your twitter handle?
<DBO> uhm
<DBO> im not sure anymore
<DBO> deebeeoh i think
<rick_h_> k, looking
<rick_h_> ah, nothing there so won't add it
<rick_h_> oh whoops
<wolfger> Dammit! I knew I should have filed a patent
<wolfger> Motorola Atrix 4G stole my idea
<DBO> wolfger, whats that?
<DBO> is that the phone/computer thingie?
<jjesse> yeah
<rick_h_> upvotes please http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/ga5hq/lococast_interview_submit_your_unity_questions/
<krondor> Voted
<rick_h_> ty
<krondor> Yeah the atrix is cool, too bad motor priced the laptop dock stupid and the efuse system lock crap.
<wolfger> Yeah, plug your phone into a netbook case, basically
<krondor> Yeah I can see motor r&d saying look at this cool thing!  Phb says nice accessory i'll show that to sales.
<wolfger> I came up with that idea a year or so ago :-p
<krondor> Sales phb says accessory standard 100% markup on the way
<wolfger> bleh
<krondor> It's a slick concept throw citrix/ssh/vnc or what on there and you're set
<jjesse> why wouldn't i go w/ an ipad + keyboard case and get the same thing?
<rick_h_> because it's not a phone?
<jjesse> skype?
<jjesse> bluetooth headset?
<rick_h_> that's still not a phone
<rick_h_> so you're heading to the grocery store, you've gotyour headset on and BT connected in case the wife asks you to remember milk?
<jjesse> and my ipad in my back pocket?
<wolfger> Yeah. The whole concept here is that you can take your entire "computer" and put it in your pocket
<wolfger> Minus keyboard and screen
<wolfger> Because really, owning a cell phone *and* a netbook is just silly
<jjesse> isn't a netbook silly?
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, poor guy
<rick_h_> ty git for not being Hg or bzr...
<jrwren> i just get tired of having to look everything up.
<jrwren> i don't use it primarily, and so its foreign to me.
<jrwren> well... and git checkout not doing a revert like it should.
<jrwren> protip: zeroconf services with port of zero simply don't show up :)
<jrwren> ha!!!
<jrwren> I found a bug in Mono.Zeroconf.Providers.Bonjour
<jrwren> now to figure out how to make a pull request :)
<_stink_> authorship!
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> easier than I thought.
<jrwren> forking after hte fact on github and pushing there.
<jrwren> I'd never done that workflow before
<snap-l> http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/23/color-looks-to-reinvent-social-interaction-with-its-mobile-photo-app-and-41-million-in-funding/ <- Welcome to bubble 2.0
<snap-l> "After a tumultuous few weeks, and behind schedule, the Windows Phone 7 copy-and-paste update has finally emerged. Codenamed "NoDo", the upgrade started rolling out earlier today, at least to a few lucky users."
<snap-l> "NoDo"? Seriously?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I feel the same way when I use Hg/Bzr
<rick_h_> have to go back to looking up/etc
<jrwren> what is that popular open source or CC icon set?
<jrwren> nevermind... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Clear
<jrwren> damn, it was a great Wednesday night.
<jrwren> i wish it were a typical Wed night for me.
<wolfger> Nofinway1
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> morning
<rick_h_> ah the joys of a kid and pets
<rick_h_> they start the wake up process well before your alarm and you give in, and get to work early
<rick_h_> albeit, itching for that coffee mug
<rick_h_> _stink_: you've been away from CHC too long, I referred to you last night as "_stink_" vs irl name
<rick_h_> snap-l: corrected me
 * wolfger wonders how long it will be before trivial fluctuations in radiation levels are once again not considered newsworthy,.
<rick_h_> come on, that's a big scary word, nothing is trivial
<wolfger> I quote directly from the news item: these and other readings "show typical fluctuation in background radiation levels" and -- thus far -- "are far below levels of concern."
<wolfger> I love they way they insert "-- thus far --" to indicate that you should still be worried.
<wolfger> even though you really probably shouldn't be
<wolfger> it's all brousch's fault
<rick_h_> I thought so
<rick_h_> but I wouldn't say it to his face
<wolfger> oh, damn. He just joined, didn't he? Doh!
<rick_h_> morning crowd, please upvote http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/ga5hq/lococast_interview_submit_your_unity_questions/
<rick_h_> and post questions if you have them
<wolfger> voted, and question posted, to get the ball rolling. :-)
<wolfger> I still can't believe that Chrysler allows Reddit, with all of the other sites that are blocked.
<rick_h_> lol, nice question
<rick_h_> I have a feeling we're going to see a lot of those
<brousch> what'd i do this time?
<wolfger> brousch: it's your fault CNN is reporting "typical fluctuation in background radiation levels" as news.
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h_> party
<wolfger> woo
<wolfger> like it's 1999
<wolfger> anybody got a y2k-bug budget still? ;-)
<wolfger> When the year 2000 rolled around, and the much-hyped bug was not seen, I tried to start a rumor that the problem would actually strike in 2048, since that is "2k" in a binary system....
<wolfger> unfortunately, I know too many tech-savy people and not enough morons to get that rumor spread around :-p
<_stink_> rick_h_: haha awesome
<_stink_> i'm not real anymore
<rick_h_> widox: expressed interest in the FF extension though at CHC last night
<rick_h_> you guys shuold get together :)
<rick_h_> and I should learn to type
<snap-l> g'morning
<wolfger> must be nice to sleep in so late
<snap-l> sleep in?
<snap-l> I'll have you know I was resetting my network at 2:45am
<snap-l> (fucking UPS died during the night)
<rick_h_> what did you need your network for at 2:45am?
<wolfger> have to keep the website up and running
<_stink_> and how did you know it was down?
<wolfger> because he just said his ups died and he had to reset his network?
<snap-l> It was the home machine. :)
<snap-l> and the UPS was going "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
<brousch> _stink_: you mean you don't sleep with a nagios-integrated testicular electrode cup?
<wolfger> home of decafbad, right?
<snap-l> so JoDee woke me up
<snap-l> wolfger: Oh hell no, that's in Texas.
<wolfger> Oh, ok
<snap-l> if a UPS died there, I'd be really unhappy. :)
<wolfger> so why did you have to fix your network then, if the blog was unaffected?
<snap-l> The UPS was going "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
<_stink_> brousch: my testicular electrode cup has only one input, and it's connected to the cat's food request system, because if i don't move fast enough he poops somewhere inappropriate
<_stink_> ohh, the UPS scream.
 * snap-l doesn't want to know where that sentence came from
<_stink_> snap-l: brousch asked.
<snap-l> about your ball cup?
<_stink_> yeah
<snap-l> a) How he know, and b) why you have?
<_stink_> "< brousch> _stink_: you mean you don't sleep with a nagios-integrated testicular electrode cup?"
 * widox quietly closes irssi
<snap-l> widox: I think that's best now
<widox> lol
<brousch> my boss told me it is standard for all IT workers. he was lying?
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> brousch: Yes, and the assless chaps and webcam are not standard issue either.
<snap-l> All I had to carry was a Blackberry
<snap-l> which was torture enough
<wolfger> rick_h_: you've got a second question on Reddit, and it's of great quality.
<snap-l> both of those are great quality
<snap-l> Hell, I think we could have gotten better questions on Youtube
<_stink_> heh, got a link to the reddit thread?
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/ga5hq/lococast_interview_submit_your_unity_questions/
<rick_h_> wolfger: yea, and one on the blog post itself
<rick_h_> so far this is working great
<rick_h_> things I'd not have thought to ask myself
<_stink_> haha
<snap-l> I'd like to know why Mark Shuttleworth hates babies.
<snap-l> I think we can make a good question out of those, though
<jjesse> when did SABDFL stop hitting his wife
<rick_h_> "Why do people hate Canonical?"?
<wolfger> Oh man, you guys got downvoted from 8 to 6 since the last time I looked at that link
<snap-l> Probably because that asshat got downvoted by me
<rick_h_> yea, it's all over the map
<rick_h_> I think we get downvotes for saying canonical, unit
<snap-l> Frankly I don't read r/ubuntu at all
<rick_h_> me either
<snap-l> http://lococast.net/archives/459#comment-465
<snap-l> aka: STFU about why you're taking your ball home.
<wolfger> :-)
<wolfger> If you're leaving, just leave.
<snap-l> wah! I'm going to Debian
<snap-l> andwhen Debia adopts Gnome Shell, then you can go "wah, I'm going to crunchbang"
<wolfger> LMDE, baby
<wolfger> Oh, wait... If Debian switches, so would LMDE. :-)
<snap-l> So, DBO, we've been getting some great feedback on our Unity post for questions
<wolfger> Gentoo, baby!
<wolfger> Then you don't get anything you don't want
<wolfger> ever
<DBO> snap-l, awesome!
<snap-l> Our big question is, at the end of the day, after reading this feedback, do you kick puppies, or punch babies?
<DBO> oh dude
<DBO> I so want to answer that
<wolfger> Man... he's just completely ignoring my question
<wolfger> :-p
<wolfger> Hey, tjagoda's here!
<wolfger> tjagoda: you appear to be out of your mind thinking you don't have a menu bar on FF anymore
<brousch> snap-l: you down-voted my question on reddit?
<brousch> that's just mean
<brousch> the first question has some merit :P
<wolfger> I tried it last night in "Classic Gnome", and the menu bar is there at the top of the screen, just like in Unity but without the auto-hide.
<tjagoda> It was not for me
<tjagoda> I was using a daily build from days ago
<tjagoda> though
<wolfger> well you need to update and upgrade daily
<wolfger> :-)
<wolfger> Best thing about Gnome so far is that it's making me forget why I stopped using KDE in the first place. :-p
<snap-l> wolfger: Is that a good thing?
<tjagoda> I do not test on my machine
<wolfger> I should try KDE in Natty and see if it's better than KDE in Maverick was
<tjagoda> It is my primary machine
<tjagoda> I like it to work
<tjagoda> =P
<wolfger> snap-l: not saying it's "good", just "the best thing so far"
<wolfger> take that as you will
<snap-l> wolfger: From you, that's a complement. ;)
 * wolfger is really curious how snap-l is twisting that into a compliment.
<wolfger> it pretty clearly reads "Gnome is so bad I want to go back to the desktop environment I left in disgust"
<snap-l> you're saying that GNOME is the best thing so far. ;)
<wolfger> that's really twisted
<wolfger> really, really twisted
<wolfger> and possibly exhibiting a total failure to understand English
<wolfger> though I should amend my statement.
<snap-l> < wolfger> snap-l: ... [GNOME is] ... "the best thing so far"
<wolfger> The best thing so far is nm-applet
<wolfger> Gnome's network manager kicks the snot out of ever other network manager I've ever seen
<wolfger> snap-l: the "it" in question was "making me forget why I stopped using KDE", not "Gnome"
<wolfger> So the list is: 1) nm-applet rocks; 2) the rest is so bad that I miss KDE and want to switch back; 3)....; 4) Unity, because it makes Gnome fanboys cry
<greg-g> snap-l: thanks for sending that email
<snap-l> greg-g: now we just need people to populate the panel. :)
<greg-g> yeah yeah :)
<greg-g> I can send a call for participation to the ML
<snap-l> I'm not going to call out who I'm trying to get to join the panel. ;)
 * greg-g looks around
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, that would be great. Thanks!
 * wolfger watches his inbox...
<greg-g> snap-l: http://thechangelog.com/post/4062775436/rstat-us-distributed-twitter-with-ruby-and-ostatus
<snap-l> reeeeaaaaly?
<snap-l> that's pretty interesting
<jrwren> did someone say "testicular electrode cup" ?
 * jrwren runs over
<jrwren> sounds like fun
<greg-g> lol
<brousch> and we learn another of jrwren's insane alert triggers
<wolfger> awesome
<wolfger> Happy Birthday Harry Houdini?
<wolfger> or is it the anniversary of his death?
<greg-g> usually we celebrate their d-day, not d-day
<wolfger> very zen
<greg-g> erm, b-day is the first one, of course
<wolfger> yes, 137th birthday. He's an old man.
<jjesse> but no google doodle for memorial day?
<tjagoda> "In the UAE, many women can now be spotted with a BlackBerry in their  hands and according to retailers in the country, RIMâs product can earn  an âAâ grade when it comes to its popularity among the fairer sex in the  country.Â "
<tjagoda> I wonder if they love them because they know the government is angry at not being able to crack the e-mails..
<tjagoda> Apparently, BBM is also a driving factor in the sales of blackberry
<tjagoda> it has somehow become affiliated with artsy youngsters
<tjagoda> Suck on that you Android zealots! =P
<brousch> what is BBM? big bowel movements?
<tjagoda> Blackberry Messenger
<brousch> sounds awesome
<brousch> like a less pervasive MS messenger
<tjagoda> It's pretty nice
<tjagoda> Very simple and sleek
<tjagoda> Most of our business users use it instead of SMS messages
<tjagoda> No per-message charges either
<tjagoda> If they come out with a good cross-platform client I can see it easily replacing Microsoft Communicator
<brousch> a chat service that only business people like? i was wrong it is awesome. thank you for keeping them out of the communication channels i like to use
<rick_h_> yay, finally a real set of questions
<brousch> it's like the idgits that only use aol chat or yahoo messenger. excellent! i don't want to talk to them anyways
<rick_h_> love this: http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/24/color-com-was-acquired-for-350000-the-domain-name-that-is
<Milyardo> Whats wrong with XMPP?
<rick_h_> "there is no tech bubble"
<Milyardo> Why does everyone and their mother nee dtheir own messaging protocol?
<brousch> Milyardo: so i don't have to talk to your mother ;)
<rick_h_> ok, no need for mamma jokes
<tjagoda> BBM works very well on mobile devices
<tjagoda> It doesn't need a constant connection
<tjagoda> nor does it nag about going in and out of data service
<tjagoda> Also tells you if your message was successfully delivered, not just successfully sent
<snap-l> sms can do that as well
<rick_h_> funny, xmpp seems to do the same. love coming back into the office and getting offline messages
<Milyardo> ^
<tjagoda> SMS can do that, but BBM does it by default and it does it very clean
<snap-l> tjagoda: That's great. Can I get BBM on Linux?
<tjagoda> Possibly in the future
<tjagoda> they're making a cross platform
<snap-l> how about here, in the now?
<brousch> snap-l: no, damn you! keep it on windows and BB so only salesmen can use it with each other!
<snap-l> I have code in Python that can interface with AT&T's network and send SMS
<snap-l> and check the status of the SMS message.
<tjagoda> That's all well and nice
<snap-l> tjagoda: That's current and very nice
<tjagoda> I have this blackberry which just does it for me without having to do any effort
<snap-l> That's nice, dear, but I don't have a BB
<tjagoda> So?
<tjagoda> Didn't say you should get one
<tjagoda> You assumed my argument was to that effect
<tjagoda> =P
<snap-l> Why should I buy into some proprietary standard that RIM pulled out of their ass, when I can use a currently supported, and widely used standard instead?
<brousch> don't you see? it's perfect right where it is!
<tjagoda> Ask the artsy kids and businessmen who seem to love it? =P
<Milyardo> s/pulled out of their ass/ripped off XMPP/
<tjagoda> Facebook's messenger is XMPP too isn't it?
<snap-l> tjagoda: That it is
<tjagoda> Hate that stupid little messenger
<Milyardo> As is Google talk
<tjagoda> never works
<Milyardo> even Microsoft ripped off XMPP with Communicator
<tjagoda> Really?
<krondor> Android has a push mechanism so it doesn't need a constant connection for xmpp and other things like that
<tjagoda> I would assume they just used their MSN framework
<Milyardo> Yes Communincator is an extension of XMPP
<tjagoda> So MSN is off being an ugly child somewhere?
<krondor> Speaking of lock in and proprietary anyone looked at rstat.us?
<snap-l> krondor: OUtside of the initial page, no
<krondor> Looks intriguing at least
 * snap-l wonders how long before Twitter revokes their API key. ;)
<tjagoda> "While BlackBerry sales have stagnated, and possibly deteriorated on an  annual basis, Carisâ team expects international sales will grow more  than 80% year-over-year in the fourth quarter.Â  âMessaging focus and BBM  via lower ASP [average selling prices] likely keeps boosting adoption  in emergingâ market customers, they explain.Â "
<tjagoda> Mmm, proprietary third world.
<snap-l> tjagoda: Apparently BBM isn't the only thing Blackberry is pulling out of their ass
<tjagoda> That's not entirely all lies
<tjagoda> They just posted revenue today
<tjagoda> growth is coming from crazy international adoption rates
<snap-l> expects and emerging are both ass-pullers
<tjagoda> ^
<snap-l> That's the same as saying that I expect the government to give me a million dollrs
<krondor> You can be profitable and losing the race though. Their idea to require a phone tether for qnx playbook to use bbm seems defunct
<tjagoda> It does not require
<snap-l> whether or not that is true is based on many factors that are not evident in that statement
<tjagoda> You CAN use a phone to tether, and you do need one to tether to the BES functions
<tjagoda> for all other things, wi-fi or 4G is fine
<tjagoda> The whole blackberry-required-to-work thing is BS
<snap-l> I love how easy it is to wind up tjagoda
<tjagoda> God damn trolls
<tjagoda> =P
<krondor> Lol
<krondor> Ugh back to work
<snap-l> Face it, Blackberry is going the way of Nokia
<tjagoda> We'll see
<tjagoda> Nokia still owns a good portion of europe, mind you
<snap-l> and while it may be emergent in outside markets, the spark isn't there to make folks really care about it outside of business markets.
<snap-l> tjagoda: They burned a bunch of good-will with the Microsoft merger
<snap-l> (and yes, I'm calling it a merger)
<brousch> merger is generous. more like a take-over
<wolfger> brousch: BBM == Big Beautiful Men
<rick_h_> I like to think of it as a coup, first ship over one of your own to infiltrate, then buy out the leaders
<rick_h_> and BB is going to be a big enterprise software service provider soon
<rick_h_> you'll be able to get the great BB encryption/security on your device of choice
<tjagoda> BS
<tjagoda> over 80% of their revenue is in mobile hardware sales
<tjagoda> You don't just start pumping out software when 80% of your $11.47 billion is in devices
<rick_h_> now it is, but when 80% of your revenue is hardware sales, and you're losing massive #'s of hardware sales...you tend to look elsewhere
<wolfger> snap-l: does this code require an AT&T cell number?
<snap-l> wolfger: Yep
<tjagoda> They aren't loosing hardware sales
<tjagoda> They still have growth
<tjagoda> Their growth is outpaced by others though, if that's what you meant
<snap-l> tjagoda: so did Palm. ;)
<tjagoda> I like Blackberry
<tjagoda> Jrwen likes microsoft
<tjagoda> Wolfger loves KDE
<tjagoda> Whose the Apple fan? =P
 * brousch points at snap-l
 * snap-l says "I'm rubber, you're the glue. Bounces off me and sticks on you" to brousch 
<wolfger> snap-l's a rubber?
<snap-l> with Gene Simmons face.
<greg-g> win
<rick_h_> http://www.bgr.com/2011/03/24/another-analyst-bashes-blackberry-playbook/
<rick_h_> what do you know, BB bashing just comes across my RSS reader
<wolfger> lol
<wolfger> that's what happens when you subscribe to Planet BB-Haters
<wolfger> :-)
 * wolfger fondly remembers liking BlackBerry...
<tjagoda> Nobody seems to notice that appworld is already loaded with apps to do the standalone calendar and email without a phone
<tjagoda> Crappy analysts are crappy.
<tjagoda> I hope the playbook does at least moderately well, just to slap up the its-fun-to-hate-blackberry crowd. =P
<rick_h_> what was the phrase from CHC last night?
<rick_h_> "I wouldn't hold your breath"
<wolfger> heh
<snap-l> You'll turn Blackberry Blue
<snap-l> Just ask all of the Palm Purple folks
<wolfger> P.S. tjagoda, didn't you get the memo? KDE and I broke up.
<tjagoda> In your heart you still love all those options
<tjagoda> I know it
<tjagoda> =P
<wolfger> sure I do
<wolfger> and I will probably still get all those options
<wolfger> as soon as I take some time to learn Haskel and configure Xmonad
<wolfger> :-)
<tjagoda> Eugh
<wolfger> I would use Awesome, but rick_h_ uses that, and I'm not cool enough to be like him.
<krondor> So nginx is growing on me, PHP with it was kind of odd... I like the config syntax though
<snap-l> Learn You a Haskell for Great Good!
<snap-l> Is the title of a new Haskell book
<rick_h_> krondor: yea, and it's pretty good stuff
<snap-l> nginx is nice
<rick_h_> showed my boss how to do conditional redirect/rewrites with it today
<rick_h_> blew him away
<wolfger> snap-l: yeah, I almost got that on the last sale
<brousch> rick_h_: i'm listening to the pycom 'from python import podcast'. i think they embedded the whole lococast into it
<brousch> they had nice things to say about you
<tjagoda> what code do I need to add to a <div> style tag to not make them want to stack, but instead all reside in a nice row?
<tjagoda> if it's in the style tag
<tjagoda> which I assumed it was
<brousch> http://www.w3schools.com/css/pr_class_display.asp
<brousch> display: inline; or display: inline-block;
<rick_h_> or float
<brousch> or use a css grid framework
<Blazeix> making them all float:left is the typical way
<Blazeix> with a set width.
<tjagoda> float worked
<tjagoda> but for some reason destroyed my border
<tjagoda> hrm
<Blazeix> add overflow:auto to the containing element
<brousch> welcome to web design
<wolfger> tjagoda: you're obviously viewing it in the wrong browser. :-D
<tjagoda> <3 Blazeix
<Blazeix> nah, that's expected, if I understand tjagoda's situation
<Blazeix> floating removes it from the page layout flow, so it doesn't "push out" the borders
<tjagoda> Is there also a method of making the container object auto-determine height after floating?
<Blazeix> hm, not sure I follow, you mean some way to get the raw pixel height?
<tjagoda> Basically, I had defined the width of the container, but not the height, so it was automatically sizing itself to all the objects inside it (I have it displaying a 3px border)
<tjagoda> after the float, it only counts the height of things I have floated
<tjagoda> resulting in a weird scrollable div frame
<tjagoda> like an iframe
<Blazeix> hm, do you have a page we can look at?
<tjagoda> http://penguihost.com/cmi_sheet.html
<tjagoda> It's only visible in firefox
<tjagoda> IE doesn't even render the object
<tjagoda> I was trying to hop down to the next line with another placeholder
<Blazeix> ah, in this case, get rid of the overflow:auto, and add clear:both to the "Change Existing Part" div
<Blazeix> you can use the overflow:auto if _all_ the elements in the container are floating
<Blazeix> since you have the non-floating element at the bottom, you can use that to push out the border
<wolfger> welcome to #ubuntu-us-mi-webdev
<Blazeix> or, alternatively, make the "change existing part" div float:left as well
<tjagoda> Yayworks
<Blazeix> wolfger: I'm going to into webdev withdrawal, working on a silverlight project at work now :/
<Blazeix> I need to get my fix wherever I can
<Milyardo> Silverlight? Thems fightin words 'round these parts.
 * Blazeix cowers
<wolfger> Milyardo: would it be better if we said Moonlight?
<wolfger> ...your project *is* Moonlight compatible, right Blazeix? ;-)
<Blazeix> though one of rick_h_'s interviews was talking about delivering ironpython apps via silverlight, which was pretty awesome.
<Milyardo> Dunno, is it still popular to accuse Miguel of being a MS shill?
<wolfger> Not that I'm aware of.
<tjagoda> Ahhh, webdev
<tjagoda> I love how I make everything pretty in firefox only to find douchebaggery in IE
<tjagoda> Standard standards would be stupendous.
<Milyardo> tjagoda: The eastiest way to fix that would to be to stop testing in IE
<Milyardo> no IE, no brokeness to make you cry
<tjagoda> I wish I could ban IE from the network
<tjagoda> have a few customer apps which require it
<snap-l> I'm sure they got the license for the Daft Punk sample they used. ;)
<wolfger> fair use?
<snap-l> Yeah, it was a small clip
<snap-l> but that's not a fight I want to fight. ;)
<wolfger> sadly that's most of what IP law comes down to
<wolfger> who's willing and financially able to fight?
<wolfger> and politicians have the nerve to paint copyright/patent laws as being there to protect the little guy
<rick_h_> sql wheeeeee http://paste.mitechie.com/show/F6PjV2nZ9SgUwYNRa5Gd/
<brousch> tjagoda: the ie crap is why so many people use css frameworks. it eliminates a lot of the fiddling
<jcastro> krondor: it's here, the heli!
<snap-l> rick_h_: was that your making?
<Blazeix> I'm still not sold on css frameworks.
<Blazeix> I suppose if they make ie6 'just work' then I can see the value.
<Blazeix> but I haven't really seen one that doesn't bloat your html with ugly, non-semantic tags.
<snap-l> http://luisbg.blogalia.com//historias/69275 <- This is why God invented baseball bats.
<brousch> interesting. gpl3 is stifling apple http://apple.slashdot.org/story/11/03/24/1546205/Apple-Remove-Samba-From-OS-X-107-Because-of-GPLv3
<greg-g> and the summary was total bunk
<greg-g> no where does the GPL disallow commercial entities
<greg-g> the issue is probably the fact that the gplv3 requires all of the secret codes/signatures required to run the program.
<snap-l> Considering Jeremy Allison weighed in and said that apple has been moving away from GPLed code, I tend to think the summary is bunk as well
 * greg-g was just trolled, I think
<wolfger> I don't see how this "stiffles Apple" at all.
<wolfger> If it's bad for anybody, it's bad for FOSS
<brousch> wolfger: i think you're right. apple will make their own samba-like thing and stop caring about the real samba
<rick_h_> snap-l: yes, that's my fault, updating their stuff
<wolfger> it's not like they don't have a mountain of paid devs to write something
<brousch> small businesses will plop an easy to configure apple domain controller on their network instead of a MS SBS or linux server
<rick_h_> psh, own samba-like thing...you mean "Apple Share, now compatible with the 2012 iMacs, share files with your network of 2012 macs, soon to be updated for 2013"
<rick_h_> "warning, 2013 Apple Share is not compatible with 2012 Apple share"
<brousch> yes, and a lot of apple-centric shops will do it.
<rick_h_> greg-g: was there a particular software package in question for that vote?"
<brousch> if it's easier to use than SBS and cheaper i see a lot of windows shops doing it too
<rick_h_> yea, gotta love it. Can't get windows shops off of XP, but Mac shops buy their annual upgrades
<greg-g> rick_h_: I think flash maybe? not sure, someone just brought up youtube for some reason
<rick_h_> ic, will be interesting then
<rick_h_> there was talk of maybe gonig to chrome at some point, which bundles flash ootb
<rick_h_> though I guess it's just be chromium without the flasg bit
<greg-g> dunno
<rick_h_> ok, well just curious
<ColonelPanic001> I got a refurbished Thinkpad T61p nearly a year ago
<ColonelPanic001> just now I noticed and found out that I can remove the DVD drive and put a 3 cell battery in its place.
<rick_h_> yea, that's what I did in mine
<rick_h_> it uses that battery first when draining
<rick_h_> so it'll get the most wear/tear
<rick_h_> and cheaper to replace
<ColonelPanic001> I doubt I'd make use of it anyway, but if not for that, I think I probably would, too.
<ColonelPanic001> it's pretty damn rare I use a DVD/CD
<rick_h_> yea, I had to look mine up when I sold my laptop
<rick_h_> didn't know wth I had put it
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<rick_h_> it's good stuff, definitely try it out if you live on battery much
<ColonelPanic001> now and then, but rarely to I really run out. Just use the battery for CHC, pretty much, and it lasts long enough for that.
<rick_h_> keep an eye on: http://outlet.lenovo.com/accessories/batteries.html
<ColonelPanic001> awesome that it's that easy to do, though
<ColonelPanic001> oh yeah, first place I looked
<rick_h_> cool
<ColonelPanic001> my desktop and laptop both came from outlet.lenovo.com
<ColonelPanic001> they also both have the wrong cpu sticker, heh
<jcastro> krondor: we need to hang
<jcastro> I have my chopper.
<jcastro> I will call it ubuwolf
<jrwren> I don't know where to ask, so I'll ask you all for advice and better places to ask: apple's dnssd.dll for bonjour, does anyone know if it is open source. developer.apple.com/opensource makes me think maybe it is, but I'm not sure if I can ship it with my app
<greg-g> oh, that's smart (re: the thinkpad using that smaller battery first when discharging)
<jcastro> http://www.xheli.com/z008-miniheli-blue.html
<jcastro> I bought this
<jcastro> and my first flight
<jcastro> not so awesome
<jcastro> but I will get better
<brousch> hah, chopper. i thought you bought a motorcycle
<greg-g> jcastro: you rock
<snap-l> omg, this is awesome
<snap-l> Nothing can surpass this Flash intro, ever
<greg-g> yeah, amazing, huh?
<greg-g> unfortunately, because this is making the rounds online, they are just going to believe that their intro is *actually* good
<snap-l> greg-g: It's not?
 * greg-g hangs head
<snap-l> Dude, that intro has more drama than any Hollywood blockbuster
<snap-l> And that welcome page... I got chills
<snap-l> That is the Chuck Norris of fFlash intros
<snap-l> I'm so metal, I just purchased Tangerine Dream's "The Virgin Years" on Ubuntu One.
<snap-l> <- Hardcore badass.
<snap-l> The Moog must flow.
<greg-g> wow
<snap-l> Actually, it's to check out the earlier stuff
<snap-l> I had some with Edgar and Jerome Froese, and while it was OK, it was pretty... um...
<snap-l> wankery.
<greg-g> can someone tell me good luck real quick?
<brousch> break a leg!
<brousch> unless you want luck riding your boke home, in which case, good luck!
<rick_h_droid> ooh, what for?
<greg-g> Wikimedia Foundation gig
<greg-g> skype interview in 15 minutes
<brousch> ok, you get a real good luck then ;)
<greg-g> thanks buddy :)
<jrwren> snap-l: now i want to listen to underwater twilight
<jrwren> greg-g: GOOD LUCK!
<snap-l> greg-g: Make them forget their own names by how awesome you are.
<greg-g> wow, we'll see ;)
<snap-l> now is the time on sprockets when we dance.
<greg-g> done!
<snap-l> And?
<greg-g> that was actually a tough interview
<greg-g> good/thoughtful questions
<greg-g> hopefully they heard good answers ;)
<greg-g> but, I need to go make dinner real quick before a 7pm meeting
<greg-g> bbian
<greg-g> b
<snap-l> Have fun, and hoping they finalize on you. :)
<greg-g> thanks man
<rick_h_droid> send them our way, we'll convince them
<greg-g> :) thanks man
<jcastro> man it's nerd city over here.
<jcastro> snap-l: wife's painting or something so it's just me.
<jcastro> beer.
<jcastro> and Show of Hands cranking.
<jcastro> snap-l: http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4072775080/jorge-tor-and-the-snow-dog
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-25
<rick_h_> hmm, where's tjagoda when you need him to help keep the flames stoked a bit
<rick_h_> DBO: ping
<snap-l> DBO: ping
<DBO> woops
<DBO> hey
<DBO> jassmith87
<rick_h_> k, added
<rick_h_> will call up in a sec
<jcastro> so it went well?
<jcastro> rick_h_: did DBO profess his love for tiling window managers?
<rick_h_> jcastro: no, but his love os extra pixels
<rick_h_> so I agreed with him
<DBO> extra pixels FTW
<jcastro> dude you gotta give it props
<jcastro> gnome-do-ish things by default
<jcastro> keyboard shortcut's all planned out to a tee
<jcastro> maximum terminal space when you maximize
<DBO> i love the gnome-do-ish feature
<rick_h_> http://uploads.mitechie.com/awesome.png && http://uploads.mitechie.com/awesome2.png && http://uploads.mitechie.com/awesome3.png
<rick_h_> that's what I want :P
<DBO> 4 finger tap, type, enter
<rick_h_> but you need two hands to type on a keyboard
<rick_h_> how do you four finger tap from home row? :P
<rick_h_> very cool conversation though, and learned some stuff I definitely didn't know
<rick_h_> so can't wait to get this out start of next week for sure
<DBO> rick_h_, unity supports some limited tiling
<rick_h_> ty DBO and quick phone dialer jcastro
<DBO> similar to Aero Snap (for a blasphemous windows comparison)
<rick_h_> DBO: yea, but I'm not into that. I do all my resizing/etc via keyboard. The first link is my fav dev environment when docked
<rick_h_> where I have the double terms below the full width vim instance
<rick_h_> but I'll play with it when it comes out for sure.
<DBO> yeah :)
<DBO> its not for everyone
<DBO> yet...
<DBO> I'll get you sooner or later
<rick_h_> well, I'm extreme edge case. It's not me I'm worried about. It's the snap-l, wolgers (well he's an old kde junkie though), etc
<DBO> jcastro, I land the love handles, and what does OMG ubuntu blog: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/new-look-ubuntu-mug-goes-on-sale/
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> woooo! new coffee!
<rick_h_> but I think the thing to remember is that this is really stage 1 of a few stages (don't want to count maverick/unity/netbook)
<rick_h_> though that doesn't help when you install and it's what you see/get. "6mo it'll have more xx/yy for you", but the cost of 6mo release cycles
<jcastro> YEAH!
<greg-g> uhhhh, I got an in-person interview
<jjesse> yay?
<greg-g> yay indeed
<rick_h_> yay!!!!
<_stink_> greg-g: YAY
<greg-g> just gotta figure out how to get there and back during a pretty busy time for me
<rick_h_> dude, beers
<DBO> greg-g, for a job?
<_stink_> greg-g: don't you ride a bike everywhere?
<greg-g> yeah, with Wikimedia Foundation
<greg-g> _stink_: it'll take a little longer than I can afford to get to SF and back :P
<DBO> greg-g, KUDOS!
<jjesse> wahoo
<greg-g> thanks DBO
<greg-g> thanks all! :)
<greg-g> so uh, guys, I might have to bail on the UGJ :/
<greg-g> not sure yet, still trying to figure out when I'm going, but it is a possibility, unfortunately
<DBO> UGJ?
<greg-g> ubuntu global jam
<greg-g> get on th emailing list! :)
<DBO> the who to the what now?
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'll get you a hall pass
<rick_h_> now greg-g , this position is telecommute right ;)
<rick_h_> I wouldn't want to have to root against you or anything secretly
<greg-g> uhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 * greg-g whistles
<rick_h_> brousch: get ready then, greg-g has some grooming to do
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> seriously though, good stuff, can't cross my fingers enough for you
<greg-g> thanks so much, man
<DBO> greg-g, was your previous job telecommuniting
<rick_h_> greg-g: we still good for the interview date you think?
<rick_h_> or should we look at moving that?
<greg-g> DBO: no, just in Ann Arbor, for the University
<rick_h_> it's the week after GJ
<DBO> ah good, then I dont have to remind you to wear pants
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> rick_h_: nah, I need to be back on Friday for an event anyways, and I can't really do a wed/thurs thing out there, so the interview time is fine
<rick_h_> greg-g: ok cool, just wanted to dbl check
<rick_h_> alright, I'm out all, have fun
<greg-g> yeah, thanks though
<greg-g> later!
<brousch> greg-g: congrats! it sounds like they were into you
<greg-g> brousch: I hope so :)
<brousch> so you have to fly out to san francisco during the GBJ?
<brousch> ok, well i fell asleep on the couch at 8:30, so i'm gonna finish that sleeping thing now
<DBO> rick_h_, how would you like charline to get in contact with you?
<DBO> snap-l, ^^
<snap-l> OK, off to watch DBO
<snap-l> Dr Who, rather. :)
<DBO> cheers
<snap-l> DBO: Contact us at feedback@lococast.net
<DBO> too late
<snap-l> or rick_h_ will mention a more preferred method
<DBO> already gave her ricks email
<DBO> :)
<rick_h_> yay for blocked internet access
<brousch> been surfing too much tiling porn?
<rick_h_> at a dealership and their wifi blocks gmail/amazon
<brousch> if you'd implemented the wifi proxy you could be surfing through your home internet right now
<rick_h_> yea, actually I'd just tether the phone
<rick_h_> but found gmail and amazon blocks funny
<rick_h_> twitter open
<rick_h_> though they are blocking twitter's cdn
<rick_h_> so no avatars, css when I pull up the site
<brousch> the move to samba3 is going well
<brousch> i may get to retire this dapper server soon
<snap-l> rick_h_: Seriously? Blocking a CDN?
<snap-l> Maybe they just block 443 access. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, Reason for restriction: Forbidden Category "Chat/Instant Messaging (IM)"
<rick_h_> when I hit http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/572829723/original_normal.jpg
<rick_h_> however twitter.com loads
<snap-l> I would think that IM would be the last thing that a dealership would block
<snap-l> Unless they have you on the same wifi as the employees
<snap-l> IN which case, that's just dumb on several counts. :)
<rick_h_> I'd see blocking twitter, but hitting the cdn vs the main url seems strange to me
<brousch> nmap it all
<rick_h_> heh
<brousch> h4x0r them
<rick_h_> it's more just a curoisity
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> must be a sonicwall bug out there, take over the router
<rick_h_> I'd bet it's not been updated
<snap-l> brb, reboooooot.
<brousch> ug, i may be working with visual studio next month. have to pull some crap out of autodesk inventor with its .net api
<rick_h_> ouch
 * rick_h_ sends beverage assistance
<brousch> very ouch since my windows machine is 5 years old and has 1.5GB of ram
<brousch> that's not much room to run inventor and VS
<brousch> i saw a couple of examples using ironpython, so i might have slightly less pain
<rick_h_> crap, save me, sitting in a waiting room, with fox news on, and a bunch of guys sitting around discussing how hot/not the picture of the lady in this story is
<rick_h_> ooh, now we're on to egyption leaders dumping their swiss accounts and starting a 7-11 with the 'billions' they probably have
<brousch> engage them in intelligent discussion. it is your duty.
 * rick_h_ sits mute typing on work code
<rick_h_> man, someone cut my ears off, this is painful
<snap-l> rick_h_: Whatever you do, don't look into their eyes
<snap-l> or they'll suddenly become very real, and get inside your brain
<snap-l> before you know it, you'll be taking Rush Limbaugh seriously
<brousch> you will be safe if you mumble, "goddam obama"
<snap-l> also, is identi.ca blocked?
<snap-l> "where's the God damn birth-certificate"?
<snap-l> "Fuck healthcare, just as long as my medicare check still cashes"
<tjagoda> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/03/android-apps-on-playbook-tablet-could-be-a-mixed-bag-for-platform.ars
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/03/25/open-metalcast-instrumetalcast-2-groovy-djent/
<rick_h_> http://www.bgr.com/2011/03/24/rim-reports-q4-earnings-revenue-misses-estimates-despite-record-shipments
<snap-l> http://bestiary.ca/ <- Had I had this as a kid, it would have been awesome
<snap-l> Love mythology.
<snap-l> http://bestiary.ca/beasts/beast80.htm
<tjagoda> .....
<tjagoda> why.
<snap-l> Consider that when I was 7-8, D&D was starting to hit the mainstream
<snap-l> I had never been exposed to so many mythical, and (to an 8 year old) magnificent creatures as I had been in the Monster Manual of AD&D 1st edition
<snap-l> Later finding out that these creatures were based on myth and folklore only added to my curiosity
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/Metal/comments/gb92l/open_metalcast_instrumetalcast_2_40_minutes_of/ <- upvotes, if you please.
<greg-g> hehe, great for scream haters :)
<greg-g> that's me!
<snap-l> greg-g: Definitely check this episode out
<snap-l> Cloudkicker is amazing
<snap-l> trying to get him (them?) on the show
<snap-l> put another way, one of the higher-ups at Earache records had one of their songs posted in a blog post about Djent music.
<snap-l> yay, new battery shipped for my UPS
<snap-l> funny enough, didn't pay anything for shipping, but had to pay tax.
<wolfger> OK, I upvoted for snap-l and will definitely check this episode (and instrumentalcast #1) out. Metal rocks. Screaming sucks.
<snap-l> wolfger: Thanks. :)
<jrwren> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/24/google_will_not_open_source_android_honeycomb_on_release_of_first_devices/
<binbrain> hmmm
<binbrain> hopefully this is just a temp thing to jump start the big shots that want 1st dibs at the market
<jrwren> snap-l: D&D? Creatures?   NERD!!!
<jrwren> :p
<wolfger> jrwren--
<jrwren> rofl
<snap-l> jrwren: Right, and if you can tell me that the first place you saw a Medusa wasn't either D&D or Clash of the Titans, I'll be impressed.
<Milyardo> Pretty sure first time I've heard of a Medusa was from Illiad, or the Odessy, whichever one it was in.
<Milyardo> I think it was the Odessey
<jrwren> medusa?
<jrwren> it was probably some hanna barbara cartoon of the 70s or 80s
<jrwren> they loved to have medusa or medusa like characters.
 * greg-g nods
<tjagoda> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2011/03/android-openness-withering-as-google-withhold-honeycomb-code.ars
<tjagoda> whoops
<tjagoda> somebody already posted
<Milyardo> Google won't commit unfishined code to public repositories?
<Milyardo> MY GOD
<snap-l> Man, could there be more of a tempest in a teapot with this?
<snap-l> will the code be released: likely
<greg-g> it isn't "unfinished" though, it's just "not ready for all platforms" and the excuse of "you're going to use it wrong" is no excuse
<snap-l> I'd worry more if Google suddenly said "we're never releasing this"
<snap-l> patience
<greg-g> BUT I WANT IT NOW! DADDY!
<tjagoda> trolololol
<snap-l> jesus, you'd think Google suddenly witheld the internet from people
 * greg-g removes the Veruka(sp?) personality from his head
<greg-g> snap-l: http://i.imgur.com/OGc20.jpg
<_stink_> lawl
<jrwren> veruka salt!
<jrwren> greg-g: i LOLed
<snap-l> greg-g: Totally
<Milyardo> greg-g: "not ready for all platforms" sounds unfinished to me. Problem is there are public available products that use Honeycomb, that however doesn't mean it's to a point where Google would considered Finished. Not being supported on All platofrms is a big part of that.
<snap-l> folks say you can't tell the differnce between regular and decaf, but I can
<snap-l> it totally depends on how they process the beans
<snap-l> fermaldahyde is not your friend.
<snap-l> Also, Tomato is awesome. That is all
<snap-l> just created two DHCP entries for two virtual machines with a few mouseclicks.
<Milyardo> Tomato is awesome, not sure whats particularly awesome about static DHCP entires though
<snap-l> Milyardo: so when I want to ssh into those vm boxes, I don't have to hunt. ;)
<Milyardo> I wonder why you can't set up static DHCP through Avahi or Zerconf yet
<Milyardo> That would be awesome
<snap-l> That would be chaos. ;)
<Milyardo> ubiqitous DDNS would be nice too
<snap-l> can't dispute that. :)
<snap-l> I should look into doing dynamic DNS via my own domain instead of relying on dyndns.org
<snap-l> It's not like i don't have my own DNS that I pay for
<Milyardo> THat sounds good to me, but I'm kinda attached to my Dyn-DNS name now
<snap-l> I want to get away from DynDNS for some bonkers stuff they were doing
<snap-l> and OpenDNS
<Milyardo> I haven't heard of anything they've done recently
<Milyardo> what have they been up to?
<snap-l> dicking with nxdomain
<snap-l> so you get landing pages instead of what you should be getting
<Milyardo> zpowers@zpowers-devel:~/workspace/mumble/overlay$ host unkonwdmain.dyndns.org
<Milyardo> Host unkonwdmain.dyndns.org not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
<Milyardo> I got an NXDOMAIN
<snap-l> http://fytojs.com/
<snap-l> Milyardo: Are you using them for DNS service?
<Milyardo> Locally no, just to resolve the address of my box from home, right now UM-Flint host my current resolver
<Milyardo> zilog.ath.cx is the free domain I use from them now
<Milyardo> mispelling zilog and trying to resolve zigol.ath.cx returns an NXDOMAIN though
<DBO> snap-l, i got you some fresh fish
<snap-l> ?
<DBO> you'll see
<DBO> you'll see in like 2 minutes when he gets here
<DBO> THERE HE IS, THE MIGHT JOHN LEA
<DBO> here to set up his interview
<snap-l> Hi JohnLea!
<DBO> snap-l, make sweet love to this manes schedule until you message yourself an interview with this man
<DBO> manes/mans
<JohnLea> hi
<snap-l> I'm one half of the team that put together Lococast (http://lococast.net)
<snap-l> The scheduling piece is rick_h_
<snap-l> I just do snarky comments and engineering. :)
<DBO> rick_h_? you here?
<DBO> snap-l, we need rick to do scheduling?
<rick_h_> do what?
<rick_h_> schedule what?
<snap-l> Well, his schedule is a little more tight than mine
<snap-l> Interview with JohnLea
<rick_h_> ah, ok sorry
<rick_h_> busy today, JohnLea == ?
<snap-l> Unity Design, iirc?
<DBO> lead designer of u-nighty
<rick_h_> ah, awesome
<snap-l> U-nightie. ;)
<snap-l> Ubuntu-branded sleepwear for women
<DBO> JohnLea, speak up man :) I know you're here
<DBO> snap-l, nah, thats just what the DX team thinks the official name is :P
<rick_h_> I think John is who evan told me to get a hold of
<JohnLea> I'm back - yes, when would be a good time to talk?  I'm really busy today and Mon, but could do anytime between Tue to Fri next week?
<rick_h_> but jcastro was protecting him so he could work more
<JohnLea> but not doing a good enough job of protecting me ;-)
<snap-l> Tue I have MUG board meeting
<rick_h_> sure, can do next thurs
<snap-l> Thursday works for me
<rick_h_> after 8pm?
<snap-l> (ET)
<JohnLea> which time zone
<rick_h_> ohyea
<DBO> hes in england rick_h_
<rick_h_> gotcha
<snap-l> oy
<rick_h_> so that's what, +3 or 4 these days?
<wolfger> He's responsible for Unity? Get the lynch mob together. ;-)
<rick_h_> we can bump it back a bit if that's late
<wolfger> +4
<snap-l> 6pm ET would be 10pm UTC
<JohnLea> wolfger; yes you can blame me ;-)
<DBO> i know I do
<snap-l> rick_h_: Would 6pm work for you?
<JohnLea> earlier is a bit better if possible??  but if not I can do 10
<rick_h_> yea, I can make it
<rick_h_> I can do whenever
<snap-l> JohnLea: 6pm is right around when I get off of work. ;)
<JohnLea> snap-l; it's also right around when I get off work ;-)
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> so, 10pm local for you works?
<snap-l> (JohnLea?)
<JohnLea> ok, so 10pm UTC  Thursday
<snap-l> rick_h_: good?
<JohnLea> IRC or mumble (I prefer voice chat)
<rick_h_> yea, sounds good
<snap-l> JohnLea: Skype preferred
<JohnLea> popping away from my computer, will be back in 5
<rick_h_> ok
<JohnLea> Skype is good for me
<rick_h_> pm'd you for contact info
<JohnLea> thx
<rick_h_> whever you get a sec
<snap-l> Thank you, JohnLea !
<brousch> snap-l: i think i'm going to dig into the latest omc this afternoon
<snap-l> brousch: Cool. I hope you enjoy it
<nixternal> you all tired of this cold shit yet?
<snap-l> yes
<nixternal> did you guys have spring this past week as well, only to end up back in winter the past couple of days?
<snap-l> nixternal: You coming up to Penguicon this year?
<nixternal> within the past week we went from 70s and insanely spring like to a freakin' snow storm yesterday, and today is even colder
<snap-l> nixternal: Yeah, we went from having the windows open, to wanting to put in storm windows.
<nixternal> snap-l: doubt it, but you never know
<snap-l> nixternal: I still tell the story about how you put on the FSCK ribbon, and couldn't contain all of the attention.;)
<nixternal> yeah, i sure learned not to pick up random ribbons and just put them on
<snap-l> http://imgur.com/i79ih
<_stink_> wonder if i'll get fired for viewing that
<_stink_> :P
<snap-l> I'm sure that man's junk was a danger to national security
<snap-l> On an unrelated note, I wonder if Ron Jeremy can still fly?
<jrwren> he could fly?
<jrwren> i'm so tempted to paste that into a campfire chat
<greg-g> man, I need to listen to this show with my real headphones at home, snap-l, this is good stuff (still on song 1)
<snap-l> greg-g: Glad you are enjoying it. :)
<wolfger> Now who was it spreading Android-violating-GPL FUD last week?
<wolfger> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/android-linux-fud-debunked/8549?tag=nl.e540
<snap-l> I can't stand zdnet
<wolfger> Yeah, I know, but this is a good, brief, to the point article
<Milyardo> I should write a script what take output from /dev/urandom, run it through spellcheck, randomly replace words with the tech buzzword of the week, and make ass tons of ad revanue posting it to tech journalist sites. Think it'll work?
<snap-l> Milyardo: could do the same with the words for dict
<snap-l> just pull them out at random, throw them through a grammar check
<Milyardo> dict would be more cpu efficient indeed
<Blazeix> just feed techcrunch and zdnet through a markov generator
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> how do you know that's not what they've been doing the last 2 years?
<Milyardo> Well my original idea was to mash my face againt the keybaord, I think thats how real braindead tech journalist do it.
<snap-l> I think they write one good piece, then they keep cutting it up ala William S. Burroughs
<snap-l> and resubmitting the same words in different order, adding new buzzwords as they go along
<snap-l> so something like "The Honeywell computer is a revolutionary design" becomes "design revolutionary cloud computer is a"
<Milyardo> Just tried mashing "Udfnjkalk;sf" into Openoffice and spellcheck offered Evangelical as a corection, I think I jsut found my buzzword for the week
<greg-g> "ok guys, this week the buzzwords will be 'cloud,' 'WINNING,' and 'oh my god I hate my life.'"
<snap-l> "design revolutionary cloud computer is the WINNING"
<Milyardo> BI-WINNING?
<snap-l> Now, add a random David Hasselhoff appearancee, and it's Family Guy.
<greg-g> lol
<snap-l> add an anecdote about how you were one of the three journalists in the room when they unveiled core memory for the first time, and you're Jerry Pournelle. :)
<snap-l> (and yes, I totally respect Jerry Pournelle)
<snap-l> "design revolutionary cloud computer is an affront to computing freedom" - Now it's Boycott Novell
<snap-l> I think we're on to something here
<_stink_> Milyardo: gahaha re spellcheck
<snap-l> We should totally create tech journalist filters, like jive / chef
<snap-l> greg-g: What's this about arduino stuff this weekend?
<greg-g> snap-l: a very basic intro to arduino at the hacker space in A2, All Hands Active
<greg-g> there will be coffee and such though :)
<jrwren> David Barrett is dumb as shit and I sure as hell don't want to work with him at expensify. That said, I think I understand what he was trying to say
<lotia> greg-g: thanks much for that catch.
<jrwren> http://blog.expensify.com/2011/03/25/ceo-friday-why-we-dont-hire-net-programmers/
<snap-l> greg-g: Looks interesting
<greg-g> lotia: oh, no worries
<greg-g> lotia: should we /join #OERbit ;) (probably not, really)
<lotia> since #oer has sooo much traffic.
<greg-g> haha
<lotia> must differentiate between the two.
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, not sure what will happen, but could be fun. it'll be my first time doing any arduino
<greg-g> lotia: but, to be honest, I just wanted to get my name in the commit history :) (and, holy 43 meg git repo batman!)
<lotia> is it just 43 meg.
<lotia> it was 181 on my local machine since i cloned our local dev repo.
<lotia> so you got the LITE version
<snap-l> jrwren: This sentence alone discounts this entire blog post about not hiring .Net developers: Now let me clarify . .NET is a dandy language.
<greg-g> hah, "thanks"
<lotia> snap-l: i was just about to ask if that was a bit of a misstatement
<snap-l> That's like saying te JVM is a dandy language.
<lotia> yeah isn't it describing largely the CLR and a set of specs rather than a language?
<snap-l> "Instead, we look for a very different sort of person.  The sort of person who grew up cooking squirrels over a campfire with sharpened sticks . squirrels they caught and skinned while scavenging in the deep forests for survival.  We don.t want a short order chef, we want a Lord of the Flies, carried by wolves into civilization and raised in a French kitchen full of copper-bottomed pots and fresh-picked herbs.  We need people who can not on
<snap-l> so essentially they want rednecks
<lotia> rather rednecks who hang out with Thomas Keller
<lotia> greg-g: yeah it's a bit... big boned?
<snap-l> So, essentially you want redneck coders that will kill it and grill it. Yeah, good luck building anything useful.
<snap-l> Also, .NET is a platform, not a language, but I guess those squirrel-cookers you have might see it otherwise.
<snap-l> (That's what I posted on their site)
<lotia> snap-l: you're off their christmas card list
<jrwren> snap-l: agreed.
<snap-l> lotia: I'm oover it
<snap-l> Honestly, if someone won't hire an otherwise qualified developer because they have a particular technology on their resume, I don't want to work there
<snap-l> Not everyone gets to work in their ideal utopian development environment
<snap-l> I'm more interested in the person that can make something awesome out of VB than I am with someone that makes shit with Haskell
<snap-l> poor craftsmen blame the tools
<lotia> good point. but IMHO one can never underestimate the value of good tech enabling nice creative code.
<lotia> agreed that as long as a language is turing complete you can do anything that any other language can do. but i have way more fun wirting ruby/python/clojure/scheme than php.
<lotia> writing even more than wirting
<snap-l> Oh no doubt
<snap-l> and this gets into the part-time developer rant that rick_h_ has as well
<lotia> and i think if an environment reduces drudgery it frees me up to be both more meticulous and gives me more motivation to burnish stuff.
<lotia> but i fully agree that great programmers can come from any background.
<lotia> thanks for the link to an entertaining post snap-l i'm off to dinner.
<snap-l> laterness, lotia-away
<snap-l> and than jrwren for the link. :)
<lotia-away> oh sorry thanks jrwren for the link
 * lotia-away fails at attribution. sorry greg-g 
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-26
<Blazeix> eli grey's answer is awesome: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5438540/simple-javascript-math-problem
<rick_h_> Blazeix: that's just cruel
<snap-l> That's awesome
<_stink_> yes, awesome for sure
<_stink_> that Error string is hilarious
<rick_h_> "Slow down..."
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/264/
<snap-l> There's how I'd do it in Python
<rick_h_> now how to get that code into bookie?
<rick_h_> "hey, that's production code"
<snap-l> wow, talk about a dogpile
<snap-l> comments on that .Net article are pouring in
<snap-l> made the mistake of subscribing to them
<rick_h_> heh, I still need to go read it
<rick_h_> saw the link on my phone, but didn't get it up yet
<snap-l> http://blog.expensify.com/2011/03/25/ceo-friday-why-we-dont-hire-net-programmers/
<snap-l> 55 comments
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> this sounds a lot like my "never try to talk SOAP with a .net dev" story
<rick_h_> oh man, <3 this...but yea can tell he's going to get creamed
<rick_h_> lol "you're retarded"
<rick_h_> I love that there's all these "I've used 20 languages for 15 years..."
<snap-l> I'm not the biggest fan of .NET, but I'm not going to go around calling them short order cooks
<rick_h_> then clearly he wasn't talking to you
<rick_h_> heh, I will :)
<rick_h_> 80/20 rule sure, but you can still say it
<snap-l> There's short order cooks in every language
<snap-l> and short-bus coders in every language
<rick_h_> oh definitely, it's a broad brush he's painting with
<rick_h_> but he's using it as a marker for his interviews
<rick_h_> and that makes sense to me
<snap-l> keep reading
<rick_h_> http://blog.expensify.com/2011/03/25/ceo-friday-why-we-dont-hire-net-programmers/#comment-1306 <3 this one
<snap-l> The guy is clearly demonstrating that he's an idiot
<rick_h_> "but but but...we have stackoverflow, that's a .net successful startup/company"
<rick_h_> yep...name another?
<rick_h_> I mean jrwren is the poster boy for the exception to the rule and all
<rick_h_> hah, comments are so good
<rick_h_> and the mature ones step in: http://blog.expensify.com/2011/03/25/ceo-friday-why-we-dont-hire-net-programmers/#comment-1330
<rick_h_> ok, good distraction, back to bookie
<jrwren> :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: woot, the user study lady is up for an interview as well. some time after april 1
<snap-l> rick_h_: Awesome!
<snap-l> Oh this is priceless:
<rick_h_droid> cool, glad to know the evening was well spent
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/265/
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: ?
<rick_h_droid> going to be a. net developer
<snap-l> Oh, yeah, totally. ;)
<rick_h_droid> sorry, wrong channel
<rick_h_droid> i'm confused today
<snap-l> Would love to know what resume they were smoking
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: Apparently. ;)
<snap-l> Disclaimer:We respect your on-line privacy. This is not an unsolicited mail. Under Bill 1618 Title III passed by the 105th US Congress this mail cannot be considered Spam as long as we include contact information and a method to be removed from our mailing list. If you are not interested in receiving our e-mails then please reply with a "REMOVE" in the subject line or click here to remove your name from the mailing list. I am sorry for any 
<snap-l> I LOVE this. If you have to put this in your mail, it's likely SPAM
<rick_h_droid> heh, pretty much
<brousch> rick_h_: great interview with foord
<rick_h_> yea? that was one a bit of the harder ones, didn't hink it was as smooth since I wasn't as up on the topics
<brousch> i haven't listed to the others yet
<brousch> i thught it was good because you were just knowledgable enough to ask questions
<rick_h_> cool, glad it came out ok then
<brousch> i really liked it
<rick_h_> thanks for the comment
<brousch> an advanced user interviewing a master
<rick_h_> yea, he's a bit above my stuff for sure
<brousch> it kept things at the right level
<brousch> if it were a scrub interviewing it would have been much less interesting, and another master would have quickly gotten too technical
<rick_h_> cool
<brousch> sound was good too
<rick_h_> heh, still had my mic backwads :/
<brousch> i enjoyed the episode with the import podcast guys too
<brousch> sounded like you all got along well and had fun
<rick_h_> yea, good times
<brousch> they brought up your codemash talk, but not your pyohio talk
<brousch> i know one of them asked a question at pyohio. irecognized his voice
<rick_h_> yea, I think it was because they just put out their codemash/etc
<rick_h_> so it was in their minds
<rick_h_> might not have realized pyohio was me
<brousch> i love foord's voice and accent
<brousch> he should do radio
<rick_h_> hah, gotta love the english
<brousch> greg-g: Are you going to send a reminder for next week's Global Jam?
<rick_h_> brousch: as leader in training that falls to you :P
<brousch> i went to bed early that night. is he officially out that day?
<brousch> i'll send it if he's indisposed, otherwise i wanted to piggyback on it with my west side carpool reminder
<rick_h_> brousch: heh, no. just an interview
<rick_h_> I was joking
<greg-g> brousch: sent!
<greg-g> brousch: thanks for the reminder :)
<greg-g> brousch: piggyback away
<brousch> wordpress is awesome. i'm moving my blog from blogger
<brousch> it can import all posts and comments, has easy rss inclusion, so i can embed my buzz and twitter feeds
<brousch> greg-g: are you out of town on the 3rd?
<greg-g> probably not, I'll probably be in town, it was just a possibility
<greg-g> I'll just be out Tues night to Wednesday night (just taking one work day off)
<greg-g> (the 6th)
<greg-g> so, I can grab snack and all that (but you're more than welcome to bring something else as well)
<brousch> hm, I'll think of something to bring
<brousch> what awesome thing do we have on the west side that you east siders are deprived of? (besides a growing economy and population, clean air, and sparkling fresh lake michigan water, of course)
<jcastro> brousch: you guys are missing out on some prime urban decay
<brousch> i've seen pictures
<brousch> i could bring beer from founders or new holland, but i don't know if we can drink it in jrwren's office
<greg-g> jrwren: is beer allowed at SRT?
<brousch> if not i'll bring some cupcakes from Marge's
<greg-g> mmmmmmm, cupcakes
<brousch> you should bring some of those potbean brownies
<snap-l> Too bad tjagoda isn't here.
<snap-l> http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1520.html
<rick_h_> heh, nice
<snap-l> Jeez, talk about slow moving:
<snap-l> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/03/26/1949225/ISO-C-Committee-Approves-C0x-Final-Draft
<snap-l> C++0x is just getting to final draft status?
<jrwren> greg-g: bring whatever you want :)
<jrwren> greg-g: we often have beer on hand :)
<jrwren> leaving some for monday is also very welcome :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-03-27
<brousch> jrwren: seriously?
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> why?
<greg-g> rock, bring some of that beer then, brousch, I'll even pay you for some :)
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/notice/68283272
<jrwren> what beer?
<jrwren> does potbean brownies mean what I think it means?
<jrwren> *gasp* (C)-violator!
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, yeah, I know.
<jrwren> snap-l: don't feel bad.
<jrwren> look at it this way, i violate your right to happiness by pointing out windows7 awesomeness every day :)
<snap-l> jrwren: And Microsoft violates your tender anal virginity every time you use Windows 7
<snap-l> ;)
<jrwren> it does?
<snap-l> I guess after a while you don't feel it anymore.
<jrwren> all this talk of violation makes me think of the violator from the spawn movie.
<snap-l> And with that, more Doctor Who
<snap-l> laterness. ;)
<greg-g> jrwren: something from Founders since brousch is from the GR
<greg-g> man I love Founders
<jrwren> i prefer OG :)
<brousch> jrwren: i'll bring some founders or new holland beers to the jam
<greg-g> YAY!
<brousch> any requests
<brousch> and what's the attendance looking like?
<greg-g> 8 confirmed, 4 maybes
<greg-g> also, why does glow.mozilla.org and 280.status.net think I'm from an arabic country (they both are showing the arabic translations of the standard words :/)
<snap-l> Add one to the maybes
<snap-l> though I'm more likely attending than not
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/gc1o7/calling_all_students_hack_on_the_gnu_hurd_for/
<brousch> snap-l: you must go to the jam. i owe you like 3 kicks to the crotch
<snap-l> brousch: Well, then I'll definitely go. :-P
<rick_h_> heh, in that case...
<brousch> rick_h_: i noticed you didn't beat up foord wrt to django. has he converted you to the awesome side?
<rick_h_> heh, no
<rick_h_> I expressed my suprise :P
<brousch> but really, mac, windows, and django. he is your arch enemy
<brousch> should have asked if he uses emacs or eclipse
<rick_h_> http://ubunturocking.wordpress.com/2011/03/27/a-neutral-approach-at-gnome-shell-and-a-comparison-with-unity/
<rick_h_> really good read on gnome shell vs unity ^^
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<greg-g> yo yo
<brousch> poking at narwal
<brousch> i don't have the side launcher thing
<snap-l> brousch: then it didn't enable compiz
<snap-l> are you doing it in a VM?
<snap-l> OK, off to go grocery shopping. Laterness.
<jrwren> snap-l: i loled at your coffee coffe coffe
<brousch> yes, vm
<brousch> but supposedly has 3d
<brousch_natty> i forgot how nice gwibber is
<brousch> it seems much slower than other ubuntu VMs i have
<brousch> very heavy
<brousch> sigh, installed updates and now it's broken
<rick_h_> lol
<_stink_> brousch: did you try to invite me to cyber?
<snap-l> jrwren: heh. :)
<rick_h_> wow, the comments are fun: http://ubunturocking.wordpress.com/2011/03/27/a-neutral-approach-at-gnome-shell-and-a-comparison-with-unity/
<rick_h_> "if you want to try gnome shell, please change distros..."
<snap-l> Can't we just all get along?
<rick_h_droid> only if you pick the right distro
<snap-l> Would someone give storrgie a push, please?
<jcastro> snap-l: rick_h_droid: is your interview with jason published?
<snap-l> Not yet
<snap-l> Will be published this week, if all goes well
<brousch> _stink_: i tried, but you didn't answer, so i satisfied urges another way
<greg-g> storrgie_: you seem to be having some IRC connection issues, mind turning off your auto-join or similar until they are resolved?
<jrwren> poor storrgie
<greg-g> storrgie: you seem to be having some IRC connection issues, mind turning off your auto-join or similar until they are resolved?
<snap-l> I love it when the computer is quieter. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-19
<snap-l> G'morning
<snap-l> So, how about this morning?
<ColonelPanic001> I forgot my headphones at home.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: ugh
<ColonelPanic001> I came up with a solution, but I don't think the building is tall enough to jump off and die
<snap-l> don't forget them tomorrow. New OMC tomorrow. :)
<ColonelPanic001> \m/
<rick_h> party
<rick_h> will probably need you guys to handle CHC without me another week :(
<Blazeix> man, too many more absences and we'll lose our python flavor
<Blazeix> next time you show up we'll all be programming C# on mono on our macbooks.
<brousch> Blazeix: that would be awesome
<snap-l> rick_h: That bad, eh?
<jrwren> lolz
<rick_h> well you're all hacking on bookie anyway right? so you're doing a bunch of python :P
<jrwren> i'm doing a bunch of python
<jrwren> but not bookie.
<jrwren> sorry, its not my passion.
<jrwren> it works great as is.
<rick_h> jrwren: boooo :P it's good practice :)
<rick_h> jrwren: how goes the new gig?
<jrwren> its great.
<rick_h> awesome
<jrwren> awesome environmen.t
<rick_h> make sure to check out the great pycon vids
<jrwren> they are 10yo startup, so they are trying to keep that startup vibe.
<jrwren> snack wall
<jrwren> soda
<jrwren> pingpong
<jrwren> mame cabinet
<rick_h> hah,k cool
<jrwren> all the amenities.
<jrwren> yeah, i'll watch pycon vids.
<tjagoda> Ahoy
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh Christ, you're on Steroids again?
<snap-l> I hope nobody does anything at work. :)
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, I've got the yummy fully medicated head going on with the raging roids
<rick_h> why I think I'll bow out of CHC even thuogh I might feel beter by wed night
<brousch> jrwren: there is also a conference just for django: djangocon. they have gob of videos too
<snap-l> brousch: All anyone really wants from Djangocon videos are the admin screen.
<brousch> actually only about half of the videos are django-specific
<rick_h> yea, it's actually got some ok things in there
<brousch> the other half are general python and web good stuff
 * snap-l thinks up more Django harassment
<brousch> they always have at least 1 why django sucks talk
<rick_h> they invited chris to do the annual "i hate django" talk, but he declined saying he loves django :P
<snap-l> WEll, didn't they invite Mark Ramm on e year to give that talk?
<rick_h> yea, he's given it before
<brousch> nice
<jrwren> rick_h: where do you fall in the "star imports are bad" argument?
<rick_h> very bad
<rick_h> explicit > implicit
<jrwren> from module import * <-- i'm i removed some of these from a module on friday in favor of specifying each name specifically
<jrwren> cool.
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/__init__.py
<jrwren> rick_h's approval is my gauge for if i'm doing it right
<jrwren> holy page of imports rick_h !
<rick_h> one import per line, sorted, and you can easily find out where any keyword/class comes from
<brousch> rick_h++
<jrwren> i did the from module import name1,\\nname2,\\nname3
<jrwren> and sorted?  fuk that, unless a tool will rearange for me.
<jrwren> :p
<rick_h> jrwren: :!sort
<rick_h> well highlight first
<brousch> i sort them if i notice they are jumbled
<jrwren> good call.
<jrwren> ty
<rick_h> and split by stdlib import x, then from x import stuff, then your own local imports
<brousch> rick_h must have lernt me that early on
<snap-l> I just gave our iso auditor a copy of 11.10
<rick_h> it's pretty standard pep8 stuff I think
<rick_h> hah, nice!
<rick_h> did you pass?
<jrwren> i'll bet if you wrote C you would decl your vars at the top, k&r style.
<rick_h> I do that in my JS, jslint style
<jrwren> maybe someday I'll learn
<brousch> snap-l: do they do more than md5 it?
<snap-l> rick_h: Other than sounding like Porky Pig when asked what I think the quality policy is (from memory) I think I passed
<rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/static/js/bookie/view.js#L1205
<jrwren> sometimes i don't know how i lived w/out byobu
<jrwren> the bw monitor alone is life changing
<rick_h> bw monitor?
<jrwren> the status line in byobu shows me outgoing and incoming data rates for my interface
<rick_h> ah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-20
<snap-l> Evening
<rick_h> party
<rick_h> bwuahhaha http://paste.mitechie.com/show/568
<rick_h> awesome bpython paste straight to lodgeit pastebin
<snap-l> very cool!
<rick_h> yea, kind of neat
<rick_h> grabbed the tmux book to check out for any good bits
<rick_h> reminds me, need to get it on the kindle
<rick_h> Blazeix: ping
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> rick_h: How are you feeling?
<rick_h> little better
<rick_h> took my roid pill for the morning so check in in a bit :)
<snap-l> HULK SMASH?
<rick_h> HULK SMASH TESTS!!
<rick_h> hmm, tempting DotD today
<snap-l> curious
 * snap-l is going to wait fo the final release.
<rick_h> final release?
<rick_h> think it's already out. I know another guy that read it
<rick_h> yea, dec
<snap-l> We're talking about the HTML 5 Architecture book?
<snap-l> or am I behind again
<rick_h> the information diet
<snap-l> I'm behind again.
<rick_h> yea, the html5 arch book was tempting but didn't make me get my wallet out
<snap-l> I won't point out the irony of buying a book to curb your information consumption. :)
<rick_h> yea, I know
<snap-l> That's like buying a steak about dieting.
<rick_h> feels a bit to self-helpy
<rick_h> but after installing a pomodoro app on hte phone last night I'm in that mood
<snap-l> Oh jesus
<snap-l> Do not make any productivity changes while under the influence of allergy medicine.
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> well last night was cough syrup with codine...combine with steriods and 3 diff inhalers I'm beyond allergy pills
<snap-l> rick_h: Neer let it be said you don't go into anything without going full-force.
<rick_h> yea, joked with the wife that if I was going to do it, damn well better do it right :)
<snap-l> MOst of us just get sniffles
<snap-l> Did a search on Amazon for The Information Diet. First result is the O'Reilly book.
<snap-l> Second result is Celiac Disease: Safe/Unsafe Food List and Essential Information On Living With A Gluten Free Diet
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/review/R1A296CKFB0TLE/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B006GRYADO&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=
<rick_h> heh, kindle price .10 less then the main site with 50% off
<snap-l> Yeah, but then you get the kindle, PDF, and epub formats
<snap-l> I think that's worth $.10
<rick_h> yea, still, like jewelry stores where things are always 30-50% off
<snap-l> Keeps you from doing [title] pdf searches, doesn't it? :)
<rick_h> so the pomodoro thing is a bunch of smoke?
 * rick_h has seen bits, but not read the book or anything
<snap-l> O'Reilly has sold me more bits than I think I ever thought possible
<snap-l> rick_h: It just seems like a rehashed "focus for x number of minutes" routine
<rick_h> yea, didn't seem dirty enough. Just trying to force timing down.
<snap-l> Maybe it'll work for you, but I find I'm good for a few cycles before my mind just does on a fuck-all frenzy.
<snap-l> s/does/goes/
<rick_h> yea, I'm thinking long term. It's too easy for me to go several straight hours and then realize I need to look away
<snap-l> Opposite problems. :)
<snap-l> You can easily gain focus
<snap-l> I have to try like hell to harness it
<snap-l> You have trouble letting go
<snap-l> my mind is like a helium balloon in a tornado
<rick_h> gotcha, yea definitely experiment kind of thing
<rick_h> grrr, I need to get my laptop to 12.04
<rick_h> nvm, even that won't help me
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h> no python3-pip/virtualenv packages
<snap-l> Ah
<snap-l> Couldn't you bootstrap Python3 with easyinstall?
<rick_h> yea, ended up doing
<rick_h> just trying to keep my py3 completely seperated
<snap-l> rick_h: Nah, just run 2to3 on everything and let 'er rip. :)
<snap-l> I'm surprised how incompatible 2.6 -> 2.7 is
<snap-l> Have written code on an 11.10 box with 2.7 that needs some tweaking for 2.6
<snap-l> Like format strings ("{} {}" needs to be "{0} {1}")
<rick_h> yea, no .format() :(
<snap-l> No, you still get .format()
<snap-l> Has to be explicitly positioned, though
<rick_h> ah
<snap-l> which kinda negates the fun. ;)
<rick_h> yea, I always do that though
<snap-l> Actually I like "{name} {foo} {bar}".format(**dict)
<snap-l> that is power.
<rick_h> right
<rick_h> since you can repeat and such
<rick_h> lol https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev/browse_thread/thread/d30ae1c692ff53c3?pli=1
<snap-l> Just a reminder, kids: Make sure you check your links.
<_stink_> haha, oops
<jrwren> gmorning
<rick_h> party
<snap-l> G'morning
<jrwren> party where?
<jrwren> lol @ i think that link had a few backdoors
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/notice/92026241
<snap-l> If you love industrial metal and haven't checked out this band, today is your day.
<snap-l> nullspace: ^^^^^
<ColonelPanic001> Antagonist? Just opened that link from your tweet
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> Free downloads of the digital album today.
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<rick_h> heh, watched one vim screencast from DAS and it's tweaking time!
<ColonelPanic001> "Open Metalcast Instrumetalcast #4: Permission Granted"
<ColonelPanic001> ...I'm still a little behind.
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: me too
<ColonelPanic001> good, as long as it's not just me
<brousch> keeping up with snap-l's OMC is like trying to keep up with rick_h's code
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<brousch> when you get up to speed on one part, you pick up your head and see a dozen more have come down the pipe
<rick_h> so does that mean brousch won't take up my challenge to get a set of instructions to get bookie running on heroku? :P
<brousch> i probably won't be able to look at it until next month
<brousch> last 2 weeks of the month are full of group stuff
<rick_h> yea, you're crazy
<rick_h> I still haven't moved anything on setting up a python group
<brousch> i imagine the whoosh stuff would be the big sticking point though
<rick_h> ah, because of he local disk space
<brousch> we had 3 guys from owosso at grpug last night
<rick_h> it's pure python, but takes some 100mb on disk I think
<rick_h> nice!
<brousch> django devs
 * rick_h keeps quiet
<brousch> i met them in lansing a couple of weeks ago
<brousch> the group in lansing is called Open Source Futures, so not python specific. next meeting is git
<rick_h> nice
<brousch> oh, the owosso guys are apple fans too. one of the reasons they came last night was so they could touch a new ipad at GR's apple store
<jrwren> heroku doesn't have a python env?
<brousch> jrwren: it does
<rick_h> jrwren: it does, but has some nasty disk space rules
<brousch> the grpug web site is on heroku
<jrwren> well all the heroku bundles or wahtever they are called are limited to 100mb
<rick_h> You are limited to 100MB of disk space, but you are not permitted to save any files (including user uploads) to disk because the filesystem is readonly.
<jrwren> but that shouldn't be a limit unless you are packaging all of python too
<rick_h> so with bookie needing that for fulltext and imports you're a bit foobar
<jrwren> i packaged all of mono and edploydeployed aspnet to heroku
<rick_h> right, but the FS is RO so I can't get users to upload their imporst
<brousch> you would have to ship the fulltext to something else
<brousch> https://addons.heroku.com/
<rick_h> brousch: right
<brousch> use one of their fulltext search addons or run your own instance on amazon or something
<brousch> same with static files
<brousch> i'm lazy so my static files are on dreamhost
<rick_h> ah yea, with combo loader getting bookie on heroku is just a no go without a ton of changes
<rick_h> DBO: ping, who's running gnome-do these days?
<jrwren> not even a writable /tmp ?
<jrwren> how about writing json to parse.com ?
<rick_h> not according to the docs, I guess something must go on for it to build the .pyc files
<brousch> jrwren: http://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/read-only-filesystem
<snap-l> Hey, I didn't think I was uploading OMC's that quickly. :)
<jrwren> so use Cedar :p
<brousch> "There are two directories thatÂ areÂ writeable:Â ./tmpÂ andÂ ./logÂ (under your application root). If you wish to drop a file temporarily for the duration of the request, you can write to a filename like#{RAILS_ROOT}/tmp/myfile_#{Process.pid}. There is no guarantee that this file will be there on subsequent requests (although it might be), so this should not be used for any kind of permanent storage."
<snap-l> brousch: That's kind of bonkers
<snap-l> SF.net's project web at least had a writable area
<brousch> google app engine is similar
<snap-l> Guess they're really into not having you use that as a drop-box
<brousch> you can upload files, but they get stored in some other kind of DB
<snap-l> Yeah, so they can spin up additional nodes without having to worry about what your app stored.
<rick_h> yea, I'm running into that when I plan on building up bookie.
<rick_h> right now uploads go to a tmp dir and then I have to have celery find it to process and such
<snap-l> You'll probably want to switch that to a DB-based queue
<rick_h> yea, it's still early right now. Just getting it working
<snap-l> I think that's the most cross-patform way to handle
<rick_h> but yea, fulltext will have to get the solr backend, uploads to command shared stuff, maybe s3, and celery processing out of there
<brousch> what's wrong with the celery way?
<snap-l> No guaranteed tmp
<brousch> oh, it is just a problem with heroku
<brousch> i thought he meant in general
<rick_h> no, it's a problem with running multiple front ends with the way things are setup today
<snap-l> Well, depending on these other platforms, there may be different constraints on persistent storage
<rick_h> just more work to be done
<snap-l> rick_h: Ah, thought you were talking about packaging / deploy for other instances.
<rick_h> right, as you deploy more front end instances
<brousch> rick_h: here's your business plan: bookie is FLOSS but you sell the fulltext search hosting
<rick_h> heh, well I think it can be OSS but you pay to have it managed down the road
<snap-l> I thought he'd make money from the Cafe Press Bookie Assless Chaps.
<rick_h> the code's actually getting pretty big where things are moving kind of slow as I don't do everything on the todo list in spare time only
<rick_h> I'm hoping that the invites helps get more people using it and potentially more hackers
<DBO> rick_h, chris halse rogers
<rick_h> DBO: k, thanks
<ColonelPanic001> loled at "I will break your f'ing neck if you finish that song"
<ColonelPanic001> (just got to the holiday OMC)
<rick_h> dammit, the next person that writes a doctest gets it in the nuts...the end
<brousch> would a doctest to the nuts be pleasurable or painful?
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Heh. :)
<rick_h> come over and let's find out, initial indications are towards pain
<snap-l> brousch: Do not taunt steroid-fun-ball rick_h
<snap-l> brousch: Let the wookie win
<brousch> i imagine him with a slight green tinge, like being on the verge of going hulk
<brousch> he's not hairy enough to be a wookie
<rick_h> no, think more angry dwarf
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh jeez, now he's Rick the Angry Dwarf
<rick_h> and with that I think I need lunch before I run bzr blame and starting hunting people down for these damn tests
 * snap-l awaits his appearance on Howard Stern
<snap-l> rick_h: Do you have bzr blame attached to electrodes?
<rick_h> heh no, people kept putting the electrodes on their pets and I couldn't get that angry
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> Wow: http://decafbad.net/2012/03/06/ubuntu-global-jam-we-came-we-saw-we-jammed/#comments
<jrwren> what a nub
<jrwren> i find people who don't run latest ubuntu no different than people who run XP
<jrwren> or w2k
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> who is that geeker?
<rick_h> MUG guy I think, not surprising at all considering
<brousch> tell him to use centos where he can run the same crusty OS for a decade
<rick_h> snap-l: had my first fish that didn't make it :( didn't last a day actually
<rick_h> so we're up to 25 positive, and one loss
<brousch> MURDERER
<brousch> gonna eat it tonight?
<rick_h> umm no, he went to the porcelin god
<rick_h> and that doesn't look like a good spelling of percelin
<rick_h> ah ain ...doh
<brousch> was there a ceremony?
<rick_h> no, I did it while no one was looking
<rick_h> I figure hte boy has a bit more time ot figure out death
<rick_h> damn I can't type today
<brousch> get off the drugs d00d
<rick_h> vim stolen trick of the day: nnoremap ;; <c-^>
<rick_h> and liking ctlp now that I've got the ignore directories going
<rick_h> hard to give up my nerdtree window, but give it time
<brousch> http://www.thinkgeek.com/geek-kids/3-7-years/e806/
<rick_h> python books on sale http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/python-think-complexity.do?imm_mid=081700&cmp=em-orm-python-think-complexity-direct-short+
<brousch> damn you
<rick_h> heh, I already have most of them :P
<rick_h> so I can pass on this round wheeee
<jrwren> Think Complexity any good?
<rick_h> not started that one yet
<rick_h> I got it during hte deal because it looks potentially good
<jrwren> programming python is a terribel book, and has 4 stars on oreilly.com... now all reviews on oreilly.com are suspect
<rick_h> yea, definitely hit up amazon for reviews
<jrwren> i want Effective Python
<jrwren> but I don't think it exists.
<jrwren> i guess I could try to write it :p
<jrwren> but maybe pep8 is effective python.
<rick_h> not really out there atm
<brousch> all python is effective
<jrwren> rick_h: do you use cscope?
<rick_h> jrwren: doesn't ring a bell
<jrwren> like ctags only better
<rick_h> ah, no I checked it out once, but don't use it
<rick_h> I just use ctags still
<jrwren> i think they go hadn in hand
<rick_h> most of my stuff I'm starting to create a make tags command and use from within vim
<rick_h> but honestly, I don't use them as much as I should
<jrwren> my goal is to be able to cycle through uses of an attribute
<jrwren> or token
<rick_h> ah, I vimgrep for that and then use quickfix window to jump through that
<rick_h> or use ropevim if I
<rick_h> ve taken the time to set it up
<snap-l> rick_h: At least the fish didn't jump out and let the boy find it on the floor
<snap-l> Had one of those algae-eaters do that. Found it many years later.
<snap-l> jrwren: What didn't you like about Programming Python?
<snap-l> Holy crap, did not realize that Pygame color can handle CMY color: http://www.pygame.org/docs/ref/color.html
<brousch> is that exciting?
<jrwren> snap-l: well, i read an ancient version of it.
<jrwren> maybe the latest is good
<jrwren> but ancient modules that i wouldn't recommend to anyone are documented and presented as if they are great.
<snap-l> jrwren: The latest is better
<snap-l> I won't say it's phenominal though
<jrwren> i prefer HSL color :)
<snap-l> jrwren: It supports that too. ;)
<jrwren> yay!
<snap-l> HSVA as well
<jrwren> ah, i think that is my fav
<snap-l> Actually, I don't have a copy of a newer version of Programming Python
<snap-l> I have Learning Python 4e
<snap-l> which is much improved over 3e
<snap-l> The biggest problem though is they're HUGE books
<snap-l> and they're not nearly as concise as they should be.
<greg-g> snap-l: dude, why didn't we use graphs in our ReApproval application? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/ApprovalApplication
<greg-g> :P
<snap-l> greg-g: Because... um...
<rick_h> hah, our fearless leader let us down!
<jcastro> quick, everyone criticise and not offer to help!
<jcastro> snap-l, you suck!
<rick_h> that's my plan!
<rick_h> now I've got some video games to go play because I'm terribly busy :P
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> I didn't even know that was an option to put together
<snap-l> Making us slacker-locos look bad.
<Blazeix> rick_h: hey, you pinged?
<Blazeix> (forever ago)
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, wondered if you knew how to get the 'class' for an app in awesome?
<rick_h> firefox comes up floating all the time for me, so trying to force it non-floating with an rc.lua rule, but can't seeem to find a class="" that works for me
<Blazeix> i don't actually have any window rules, but I would think whatever xprop returns should work
<Blazeix> firefox just behaves for me. Can you just hit whatever the float-toggle hotkey is?
<Blazeix> or you're saying that even after you do press the hotkey, next time it comes back floating?
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, but have to set that evbery time I launch FF
<Blazeix> ugh
<rick_h> right, and the class on here seems tied to the url it's on...ugh
<Blazeix> wow, firefox--
<rick_h> hmm, maybe not
<Blazeix> well then maybe I retract my --
<widox> rick_h: I have "Firefox" in mine
<widox> use the second value from xprop G WM_CLASS
<widox> where G == grep :)
<widox> (yay zsh)
<rick_h> widox: ah ok, so for me that's "NIGHTLY"
<widox> ah, yeah. I've got both in there
<widox> I've been wrestling this very thing in xmonad
<jrwren> no lie... someone here just said "i can't.... probably cuz i'm running windows xp"
<jrwren> i've immediately formed opinion per earlier conversation :)
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> jrwren: Hah!
<rick_h> widox: Blazeix that fixed it, thanks for the xprop heads up
<rick_h> now I'll be more likely to use FF more
<_Marcus> Hello
<Blazeix> hey _Marcus
<_Marcus> How are you?
<Blazeix> not bad, just chilling in south-east mi :)
<Blazeix> are you in MI?
<_Marcus> Yes
<_Marcus> Southeast like you
<brousch> we just upgraded our phones to LG Spectrums. $125 to upgrade 2 phones. not bad
<rick_h> brousch: nice
<brousch> this thing is hella fast compared to my droid
<brousch> they pushed ics to it while i was on the crapper
<rick_h> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-21
<snap-l> greg-g: Frankly all of those deal sites are assholes imho
<snap-l> was re: livinsocial
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, agreed, just someone else who has control of my credit card account likes them :)
<rick_h> ruh roh
<snap-l> brousch: while you were pushing out a turd sandwich, they pushed out an Ice Cream Sandwich? ;)
<snap-l> Oh lovely
<_stink_> chocolate gelato
<rick_h> ok, the sound quality is C+ at best, and I've not been able to work out with them to see if they stay in my ears, but the functionality of these things rock http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052YFYFK/ref=oh_o03_s00_i00_details
<snap-l> THat's not exactly a resounding review. :)
<snap-l> Also looks uncomfortable as hell
<rick_h> well, that's the thing I guess. My wired earbuds cost the same roughly, but the ability to do calls, controls for play/volume, etc are awesome.
<rick_h> and the little magnetic earbug catchers is sweet
<rick_h> it's not, that's the thing, you forget they're there
<rick_h> morning
<brousch> yes!
<rick_h> anyone mastered tmux yet? Trying to create a two window session via cmd line
<rick_h> and not quite getting it right
<snap-l> rick_h: Haven't used it that way, so I'm not sure
<snap-l> tmux new-window \; split-window -d ?
<rick_h> snap-l: that was it, missing the escaping of the ;
<jrwren> gmorning
<rick_h> thanks
<jrwren> what does the ; literal tell tmux?
<rick_h> finished up the tmux book and have some ideas on creating some shortcuts for things
<jrwren> why did tmux use ; ?  sad them.
<jrwren> i'm still on screen, cuz i'm nub
<rick_h> tells tmux to run multiple commands on a line
<jrwren> oh. so tmux 'new-window;split-window' would work nicely too?
<rick_h> I can't get into the splits too much because I'm a bad mouse'ing copy/paster
<jrwren> me too.
<rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/570/
<rick_h> so I'm using that to setup my normal mutt/irc terminal, and I'll create others for things like bookie remote where it'll log into both my www and db server and such
<rick_h> and for launchpad where I normally open a pair of terms so I can make run and still do filesystem/bzr commands in the other
<rick_h> so going to try to create basically dev shortcuts that auto setup tmux sessions with all the windows/etc I need ready to go
<jrwren> i start new screen sessions so rarely that i no longer script the window creation.
<jrwren> i did at one time, but no more.
<snap-l> The only one that I have scripted is for connecting to IRC
<snap-l> so all I have to type is IRC, and it'll either connect to a current session, or start a new one
<rick_h> yea, I've always started them up from awesome so I get the mutt/irc ones on the right desktop/workspace
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/571/
<rick_h> snap-l: right, I'm using tmux has-session
<snap-l> oh?
<rick_h> doing the same thing, but getting two windows, one for mutt and one for irc
<rick_h> yea, go back to the paste 570
<snap-l> Ah, I'll check that out
<rick_h> so I can get it to start up in the background now, just have to -t to it now it looks like
<rick_h> the attach part isn't working right from within autostart, but oh well, I'll just -t coms once the startup finishes
<rick_h> but with bookie dev, I've gotten to where I need one terminal for git/file stuff, one to run the web server from, one I start/watch celery from, etc
<rick_h> so want to automate that bit
<brousch> anyone heard of MNX Solutions? http://www.mnxsolutions.com/
<brousch> they were apparently at pycon
<rick_h> brousch: no, don't recall chatting with them
<brousch> office in monroe
<rick_h> cool
<brousch> hm, nixternal follows them on twitter
<jrwren> looks like they do some fun things: http://www.mnxsolutions.com/storage/terabytes-on-a-budget.html
<snap-l> I think I've seen the logo, but that's about it
<rick_h> cool, have the tmux scripting bits going I think http://paste.mitechie.com/show/572/
<rick_h> can't get it to auto attach a terminal to the session, but oh well
<brousch> Oh, robert Citek works at MNX. He came to one of the Ubuntu Bug Jams
<rick_h> hmm, that name sounds familiar
<brousch> well, you were there too
<rick_h> heh
<brousch> he's also had a few posts to the ubuntu-mi mailing list
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<ColonelPanic001> I'm too dumb to use google groups.
<rick_h> ColonelPanic001: now now, it's not your fault...well maybe
<ColonelPanic001> :'(
<ColonelPanic001> I'm using google apps with a domain of mine - I made a "group", and emailing groupname@mydomain.org does send the email along to all members, looks like
<ColonelPanic001> but, is there any kind of web interface for this, for "the internets" at large?
<ColonelPanic001> something I can point to and say "go there and add yourself"?
<ColonelPanic001> I can manually manage the list fine if needed, not that big of a deal, but just expected there to be some sort of self-service option or something
<ColonelPanic001> and with that, my lunch group is heading out - back later
<ColonelPanic001> if anyone knows though, I'd love a PM
<ColonelPanic001> not critical though
<rick_h> man I bought too many books last year...
<jrwren> paper?
<rick_h> no, ebooks mostly
<rick_h> I think this last year was the great year for ebooks finally
<jrwren> for you.
<rick_h> yea, for me
<snap-l> Yeah, same here
<snap-l> I bought more ebooks than paper books, for sure
<jrwren> https://github.com/tpope/vim-fugitive   bookie suggested tags: openmetalcast clubmetal
<jrwren> lol
<rick_h> jrwren: heh, yea, I've got a fix for that in place, but not deployed I don't think
<rick_h> it's picking up snap-l's last used tags on accident
<greg-g> all tags shall be snap-l's tags
<rick_h> heh, well guessing he's got the last bookmark in the system.
<rick_h> in the api call it checks against your account, but in the online web form it didn't have the user filter
<rick_h> so the chrome suggested tags would be right which is why I didn't notice them off on the webui
<rick_h> man, tax time is getting depressing as the years go on
<rick_h> I remember the good ole days when I could count on a nice refund to help my fresh out of college party budget :)
<jrwren> just claim zero on your i9 and it will be fun again
<rick_h> heh, I think we both cut down last year and still went over this year
<rick_h> all those exemptions I used to get don't count any more :(
<greg-g> yay new kid exemption!
<snap-l> rick_h: What's fun is one of JODee's schools didn't take out ANY federal tax
<snap-l> nada
<rick_h> greg-g: woot
<rick_h> snap-l: ouch
<greg-g> snap-l: oh man, yeah, annoying
<snap-l> Yeah, was fun to see the refund slowly whittled away
<snap-l> Started with >$1k, and then wound up owing
<rick_h> I just try to break even these days, but seems every year we adjust and every year we still owe
<rick_h> gotta stop getting new jobs I guess
<snap-l> Yeah,no kidding
 * greg-g hasn't owed once yet
 * greg-g knocks on wood
<snap-l> greg-g: You have a kid now. :)
<snap-l> Seriously, filing dependents really starts screwing with your taxes
<greg-g> yeah, shit will definitely be changing in the future :)
 * snap-l needs to tell J to just file no exemptions
<rick_h> heh, I remember when student load interest things would knock taxes down a ton, now we don't qualify for them to count for us
<snap-l> because I think it's all because she follows the instructions
<rick_h> yea, that's what we did the last couple of years and we've stopped that
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh yeah, they love student loans
<rick_h> not any more, once you're over a certain income they don't count. I went in with 10 sheets between my wife and I, just shredded them
<snap-l> rick_h: Ugh
<rick_h> anyway, getting the last bits together for things so figured I'd whine in irc like a big boy :)
<snap-l> rick_h: Any chance of working for the railroads and developing a heavy gambling problem while living on a reservation?
<rick_h> lol, I'll look into it
<snap-l> SOmething for 2012
<snap-l> I'm sure there's someone out there that qualifies for every exemption out there, and has to be the luckiest person alive.
<snap-l> and by lucky, I mean not terribly
<snap-l> http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG2705.php
<snap-l> greg-g, _stink_, rick_h, please read this to your kids. :)
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> jus tthought of a cool byobu feature... a kb command to collapse expand the status bars.
<jrwren> does that exist?
<jrwren> show/hide whatever.
<jrwren> hrm... just learned about ctrl-a $ in byobu, that is cool.
<jrwren> hrm, i'm on ancient byobu apparently. 4.37 while 5.16 is latest. *sigh*
<jrwren> i'm afraid to move to tmux and relearn all my ancient screen keys
<rick_h> the water is warm over here
<jrwren> but I'm ctrl-a all over the place!
<rick_h> http://uploads.mitechie.com/books/tmux_p1_1.pdf
<jrwren> I type ctrl-a,a for begin of line... always.
<rick_h> I use ctrl-a
<rick_h> you just change the map
<brousch> warm water means someone just peed in it
<rick_h> wheeeeee
<jrwren> where is chapter for "migrating from screen" ?
<rick_h> jrwren: didn't see it
<rick_h> http://blog.yjl.im/2009/11/migrating-to-tmux-from-gnuscreen.html
<jrwren> ty
<greg-g> warning to my G+ followers, I just swore a lot
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> hm, i thought it would be related to the threats to your family you mentioned on twitter
<greg-g> brousch: oh, yeah, I'm quite pissed off at this "romantic" hotel we were going to stay at in Tahoe. Yelled at Carrie/Rowan and made him cry, then this fucking redneck in a dirty white t-shirt came out of his room and stared me down and yelled at me and postured in a very "I'm going to hurt you if you don't leave" kind of way
<brousch> geez
<greg-g> yeah
<brousch> sounds like a lovely place
<greg-g> long story, but, we stayed at Best Western instead, with much bigger rooms for about a third the price (just no gas fireplace, oh well)
<jrwren> wow, sounds shitty
<jrwren> greg-g: keep yo head up
<snap-l> greg-g: Sorry to hear that
<snap-l> but remember, thereason to head out was to have a romantic get-away. :)
<snap-l> so for fuck's sake, be romantic. ;)
<greg-g> haha, we were :)
<greg-g> and, SNOW!
<greg-g> http://www.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/sets/72157629624437481/with/6998768501/
<snap-l> This is not the first thing that comes to mind for Tahoe
<brousch> first thing that comes to mind for tahoe: a chevy suv
<tjagoda> Hola
<brousch> blackberryboy is back!
<tjagoda> If I am to have this title, I at least demand a cape.
<tjagoda> I'm using XFCE
<tjagoda> Like a boss.
<rick_h> and I thought I was the guy stuck on the old tech
<rick_h> :P
<tjagoda> I was using KDE
<tjagoda> but I got annoyed with it
<tjagoda> now I use XFCE because its so similar to Gnome 2.2 =(
<brousch> xfce would not sleep on my laptop
<snap-l> xfce ate my baby
<Blazeix> I set up xfce for my parents. "Use Friendly Names" is the best setting ever.
<Blazeix> it renames applications in the menus, so like "OpenOffice Calc" -> "Spreadsheet"
<snap-l> Does it rename "Gnome Disk Utility" to "Don't even THINK of touching this?"
<jrwren> tahoe snow!
<jrwren> haha... i forgot how cute babies are all bundled up for snow
<greg-g> jrwren: :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-22
<snap-l> HEllo from Caribou
<jjesse> hello caribou
<snap-l> Just me and V
<rick_h> :(
<rick_h> well sorry I'm not there, thought about it, but will be in bed here shortly myself
<snap-l> No worries, mate. :)
<snap-l> save your strength.
<jjesse> rick_h,  you sick?
<rick_h> jjesse: yea, basically dying, but all good
<rick_h> I'm going to leave all my keyboards to MUG
<jjesse> glad you are only basically dying
<jjesse> hope you feel better soon :)
<rick_h> my wife's looking at my meds going "geeze, you must have sounded bad to the doc" and I'm here like "wtf do you think I've been saying for days...dying here, not being dramatic
<jjesse> wow
<rick_h> thanks, will be all good in a week
<greg-g> rick_h: hah, always get a second opinion :)
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, I don't let my wife be my doctor, never a good plan
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, never a good plan to go with Dr. Mom. "Suck it up, wuss"
<rick_h> so next CHC we'll do some DAS screenshots showings
<rick_h> I think it'll be cool, puts me to shame
<snap-l> Very cool
<greg-g> what the heck, one doesn't do anything, the other does something wrong, I can't figure it out
<greg-g> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/575/
<rick_h> ah, without the escaped it tried to expand it into two dirs? (Ubuntu|One)
<rick_h> so make sure to put this in a script with set -e
<Blazeix> remove the \'s escaping the spaces
<Blazeix> i don't think you need that for quoted arguments
<Blazeix> so the first one doesn't do anything because that folder doesn't exist
<snap-l> https://github.com/craigmaloney/shownotes
<rick_h> bah, yui pr4 breaks some tests
<snap-l> rick_h: Shouldn't you be in bed? :)
<rick_h> I am inbed
<Blazeix> he's sleep-ircing
<rick_h> too warm, can't sleep
<snap-l> You'd probably sleep better if you didn't have a warm laptop blazing on your lap. :)
<snap-l> OK, I'm calling it. Laterness.
<rick_h> snap-l: no audacity file to test with?
<rick_h> heh, and pull request baby! :)
<rick_h> 369788
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> rick_h: Thank you. :)
<snap-l> It's not so much a diff, as a complete re-write, now is it? :)
<snap-l> But it does clean things up a lot.
<rick_h> snap-l: it's a diff, with an added file, little moving
<rick_h> didn't have the audacity file to run a tests against, but hopefully close enough to get the idea
<snap-l> Yeah, I'll check it against the file
<snap-l> I should at least include the .aup file if I'm going to distribute this, shouldn't I?
<snap-l> was just a quick "hey, it works, if someone wants to play with it..."
<rick_h> or a link to a sample one in a readme at least
<rick_h> but if you had tests, it'd be perfect test data :)
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h> jcastro: ok, trying this charm thing out, and my install seems to be running, but not seeing any of my log lines from there
 * snap-l hasn't used the with convention. That's pretty nice.
<rick_h> yea, context managers are cool stuff
<snap-l> I'm not having any luck with doing a python setup.py install in a virtualenv
<snap-l> it finishes, but then omcnotes doesn't run
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/576/
<rick_h> oh hmm, I just tried a setup.py develop last night
<snap-l> It's not including any of the .py files under src
<snap-l> no matter what I try.
<rick_h> ah ok, so it's not including that  src directory then
<rick_h> you pulled that right? it should package up the __init__.py and shownotes.py in the src directory I created
<snap-l> yes
<rick_h> ok, maybe you do need more then. I got a test to work with just that, but might have just been my venv
<rick_h> normally I start packages with modern-package-template which sets up all the files and such
<snap-l> Yes, I just started with a simple script. ;)
<rick_h> right :)
<rick_h> sorry, I'll look at it after work and see what I did, what I get coding while medicated
<snap-l> rick_h: No worries. I do appreciate it. Just a little surprised to find my little script grew up overnight
<snap-l> I hadn't even saved for college yet.
<rick_h> heh, well once I started it seemed like something that could be generic/installed/etc
<snap-l> Bah, I did something to make itwork
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> I bet that you're on the directory now
<rick_h> so you can see it
<rick_h> which means it's not working right, just pretending to
<rick_h> which is what fooled me last night into thinking that worked
<snap-l> I think find_packages is what's causing it grief
<snap-l> checking what's under egg_info, and it finally added it to SOURCES.txt
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/577/
<snap-l> That appears to work
<snap-l> the find packages goes completely off the rails
<brousch> snap-l: can you set up a modern-package-template snd then move your script into it?
<snap-l> brousch: I think I got it working
<snap-l> pushed my changes
<snap-l> also included a test .aup file
<snap-l> none of the accompanying .au files, though
<greg-g> Blazeix: it does too exist :)
<greg-g> greg@x220:~$ ls | grep Ubuntu
<greg-g> Ubuntu One
<greg-g> rick_h: set -e didn't change behavior, nor help diagnose :)
<greg-g> when I have "/home/greg/Ubuntu One" it tries to do /home/greg/Ubunut and /home/greg/One. When I escape the space it just exits
<rick_h> greg-g: so it must not be a space in the filename, character encoding issue perhaps?
<greg-g> hrmm, no idea
<rick_h> I would tab complete out hte name/string and then try to paste it into a hex editor or something and see if it's not a space, but something unicode funky perhaps
<greg-g> that's be stupid of U1
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> well just guessing at this point tbh
<greg-g> rick_h: from vim http://paste.mitechie.com/show/578/
<greg-g> looks like a space to you?
<rick_h> yea
<snap-l> Actually, that doesn't look like a space
<snap-l> space hex is 20
<rick_h> right, the second pair in the line is a 20
<snap-l> And a good morning to you too
<rick_h> 7520
<snap-l> Yeah, tried right to left
<snap-l> rsync is pretty picky about escaping, iirc
<snap-l> greg-g: What are you looking to do?
<greg-g> hmmm
<greg-g> snap-l: rsync a fucking directory from laptop harddrive to external RAID, seems simple, eh?
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> quit holding it wrong! :P
<snap-l> greg-g: Don't escape and double quote
<snap-l> U1_LAPTOP="/home/greg/Ubuntu One/"; U1_BACKUP="/media/BlackBox/Ubuntu One/"
<snap-l> Try that instead
<greg-g> baha!
<greg-g> this worked:
<greg-g> if [ -d "/home/greg/Ubuntu One" ]; then U1_LAPTOP="/home/greg/Ubuntu One/" U1_BACKUP="/media/BlackBox/Ubuntu One/" echo "\nU1\n" >> $LOG rsync -auvz "$U1_LAPTOP" "$U1_BACKUP" >> $LOG
<greg-g> fi
<greg-g> hrm, lost the line breaks
<greg-g> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/582/
<greg-g> ^^ works
<snap-l> yep
<greg-g> effing UNIX and filenames with spaces
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> yep
<snap-l> I'm so glad we use then for a default
<greg-g> no. shit.
<brousch> ug. feels like a monday
<greg-g> alright, time to pack up and get to the Caltrain
<rick_h> +1 to taht
<rick_h> that
<greg-g> one problem solved for the day, i don't need to go to work then, right? it isn't even 8am!
<snap-l> greg-g: Today is the day we shall all clean our code.
<greg-g> no kidding
<snap-l> some of us just got an early start. (ht rick_h )
<greg-g> task add "Review ALL backup scripts for stupid space on UNIX issues" proj:home due:wheneverthefuck pri:L
<rick_h> :)
<snap-l> rdiff-backup
<snap-l> just back up the whole dam drive. ;)
<rick_h> why backup? it's in the cloud man!
<_Marcus> Anyone here from Michigan?
<_Marcus> :P
<rick_h> most of us, we do let a few stragglers in
<snap-l> _Marcus: Pretty sure there's a large contingent
<snap-l> some of us escaped, though
<greg-g> I was in Michigan, now in SF, but I still like you Michiganders :)
<greg-g> anywho, time to jet
<_Marcus> Oakland University is in Oakland county, right?
<snap-l> _Marcus: unless someone moved it, yep
<_Marcus> snap-l: They could have moved it. There was a house on a flatbed truck yesterday.
<snap-l> WEll, there's a lot of land that comprises OU. They'd need a really big flatbed.
<snap-l> _Marcus: Just curious why you might be asking?
<_Marcus> Asking about what
<snap-l> OU being in Oakland County?
<_Marcus> Just wondering
<Blazeix> greg-g: sorry for not getting back to you. the directory "Ubuntu\ One" didn't exist
<Blazeix> with the literal "\"
<snap-l> Someone just asked me for permission to use the Scribus videos I did as part of a DVD
<snap-l> Told them the CC gives them implicit permission for non-commercial projects
<snap-l> If it turns out it's commercial, I'll ask him to just purchase something off my Amazon Wishlist as payment. ;)
<snap-l> I'm easy.
<rick_h> nice!
<snap-l> Wonder at what point that video will be more harmful than good. ;)
 * snap-l hasn't really played with Scribus in a while
<_Marcus> What's Sribus?
<snap-l> Desktop Publishing program
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/projects/scribus-tutorial/
<_Marcus> Like Microsoft Office Publisher, except for multiple platforms?
<snap-l> Yep, that's the closest analogue
<_Marcus> I wanted to make a replacement for the Microsoft Office Suite, but for Ubuntu. I never got around to it though :(
<_Marcus> Replacement as in the word processor would be able to save .doc, load .doc, etc.
<brousch> http://libreoffice.org
<_Marcus> That does that?
<brousch> indeed
<_Marcus> :(
<snap-l> About as well as anything out there.
<brousch> _Marcus: i suspect you have no idea the pain involved with what you were trying to do
<_Marcus> I don't
<brousch> reverse-engineering proprietary MS formats
<_Marcus> .docx is just a zip file with a bunch of xml files inside of it
<snap-l> _Marcus: On the surface, yes
<snap-l> but there's a bunch of secret sauce that MS doesn't publish about that format
<snap-l> or they publish it in such a way as to be unusable
<_Marcus> I'll figure it out myself
<snap-l> I admire your spirit
<snap-l> Here's something that handles Excel .xlsx files: http://packages.python.org/openpyxl/
<_Marcus> People have made Unix "clones" without using the source code of Unix itself
<snap-l> _Marcus: That's because they actually had access to the APIs that were used for a while before AT&T closed off the source
<brousch> _Marcus: why do you want to do this?
<_Marcus> brousch: Because I asked people why they didn't want to switch to Ubuntu, and the main answer was "word"
<_Marcus> Anyway, I have to go
<_Marcus> Bye all
<rick_h> ok, talk accepted to penguicon, no backing out now
<rick_h> krondor: you get yours in?
<greg-g> Blazeix: ah, gotcha, yeah. It only took the explanations from two IRC channels for me to fix it (even though people were probably saying the same thing, I just didn't understand their explanations) :)
<snap-l> rick_h: I think that's just a scheduling account creation
<snap-l> I'm not seeing an actual schedule on there
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, but I'm registered, etc. So it's accepted and on the list
<snap-l> rick_h: And now is when you'll realize you've been scheduled for 5 panels. ;)
<rick_h> ruh roh!
<greg-g> wow, Marcus is very ambitious
<snap-l> You'll be talking about Open SUSE
<greg-g> DO NOT POP YOUR HEAD OVER THE CUBICLE WALL TO SAY "Hey, I just sent you an email" WHEN YOU JUST SENT ME AN EMAIL. I WILL READ IT AND REPLY WHEN IT IS APPROPRIATE. IS IT AN EMERGENCY? DON'T SEND AN EMAIL.
<greg-g> effing prairie dog co-workers
<ColonelPanic001> ^this
<ColonelPanic001> addendum: if you know my answer to a phone call is going to be "would you mind emailing that?", skip the call and just email that.
<ColonelPanic001> further: don't call me, ever. We have an XMPP server and an email serve.
<ColonelPanic001> this is not 1973. Stop using POTS.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> I have 9 voicemails currently on my cell phone. I think I'll wait until there are 15 to listen to them and delete them.
<snap-l> greg-g: That drives me nuts as well
<snap-l> If it's more important than an e-mail, then it must mean you're on fire.
<snap-l> and if you're not on fire, it's not that important.
<jrwren> greg-g: first problem is that you work at a place with cubical walls :)
<jrwren> i have not worked in a cube in almost 5 yrs.
<jrwren> i'll never go back.
<brousch> greg-g: you _listen_ to voicemails? i read mine via google voice
<greg-g> jrwren: well, its those half high "cubes"
<greg-g> brousch: yeah, that is the thing that is tempting me for GVoice, but, I just don't think I'm up for Google having control of my voicemail quite yet
<brousch> better than verizon having it
<greg-g> actually, not sure about that
<greg-g> they (verizon, sprint, att) have to follow certain rules, Google doesn't
<snap-l>  greg-g When did you become a cranky old man? :)
<brousch> geez. it takes forever to update the android sdk
<greg-g> snap-l: :)
<greg-g> rick_h: oh no. :/ My thoughts are with you.
<rick_h> greg-g: ty
<snap-l> Unity 5.8.0 isn't fully cooked yet, eh?
<snap-l> Apparently it's still being worked on. They're cautioning doc writers to eitehr use the staged version, or wait until release.
<greg-g> wha? huh
<greg-g> you mean, the thing that will be the interface for the release that is now in beta2?
<snap-l> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-March/000943.html
<greg-g> wow, quite a few high importance bugs still: https://launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/5.8.0
<snap-l> http://glossolaliarecords.bandcamp.com/album/skeld-prisotnost <- A little overdrive goes a long way.
<snap-l> http://mothor.bandcamp.com/track/amazing-pony-comedy
<greg-g> my god, that first one
<greg-g> seriously?
<snap-l> greg-g: I know
<snap-l> And that's not the worst I've heard.
<greg-g> dislike button plz
<greg-g> snap-l: You should do a OMC Rejects episode every now and then :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Trust me, you wouldn't want to listen to it
<greg-g> haha, I know
<greg-g> the idea just makes me smile
<snap-l> I've had some suggestions for things that just... ugh
<greg-g> "OHHH A Party!"
 * greg-g is singing along to this one
<snap-l> http://machinagz.bandcamp.com/track/bendito-malestar <- This is getting played when they get their downloads sorted.
 * greg-g wasn't really singing along, just fyi
<snap-l> greg-g: Oh you totally were, I know it
 * snap-l knows that greg-g is totally a brony.
<snap-l> OK, here's a new genre: post grunge
<snap-l> I swear, they just make shit up
<snap-l> "hard rock metal post-grunge sludge hardcore noise fluffernutter ballsack shennannigans techno"
<greg-g> loveyoumom
<snap-l> Just once I'd like to download an album from archive.org (non-classical) that didn't make me want to punch somoene.
<brousch> hm, sludge sounds good
<brousch> link?
<snap-l> http://karpiskarpiskarpis.bandcamp.com/album/puswolf
<snap-l> That's not the one that I was referring. I closed that tab. :)
<brousch> i kind of like it
<brousch> singing is annoying though
<brousch> sorry, vocals
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-23
<jrwren> tmux has an easy way to toggle the status bar. i haven't found one for screen :(
<jrwren> ah, just as easy in gnuscreen, i guess i'm old byobu for a bit longer
<jrwren> yay!
<jrwren> http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/560
<jrwren> i'm so happy :)
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109919666334513536939/posts/K8yXXAVRDNb
<snap-l> Have to say I'm a little irritated by this
<rick_h> jrwren: how do you hide the bar?
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> rick_h: did you watch this talk at pycon? http://pyvideo.org/video/632/scalability-at-youtube
<rick_h> brousch: no, it sounded like not a ton of interesting bits
<rick_h> any good? reviews coming out of it were really mixedc
<brousch> ok. i'm wondering if it's a good one to point to when people say things like "python doesn't scale"
<brousch> i haven't watched it yet
<rick_h> yea, can't say on that
<rick_h> honestly, just send them to me if they think it won't scale. they're nuts. all depends on your code and how you do your infrastructure
<rick_h> such a loaded phrase...scales to what with what for what?
<brousch> it'd be nice to have a pithy response like "youtube is python"
<rick_h> you can do that
<rick_h> and quroa is pylons, and mozilla sync is python
<rick_h> actually all the new mozilla stuff is pyramid
<snap-l> Launchpad is Python
<snap-l> New sf.net is Python
<rick_h> yea
<snap-l> Mark Ramm said Turbogears was powering a porn site
<brousch> sounds like it's time for a wtfhasobamadone.com-like web site
<rick_h> yea, that was their most famous large scale site years ago
<brousch> pythondoesntscale.com
<snap-l> pythonwebscale
<snap-l> and put a pixelated picture of a python on a scale
<brousch> in a spider web?
<snap-l> with a 32x32 transparent scaled-up gif of a spider web from geocities
<brousch> pythoniswebscale.com
<brousch> with short blurbs like "YouTube uses Python to handle a billion hours of videos uploads a day"
<brousch> is GAE written in python?
<rick_h> I don't think so, it's got python bindings/support, but I don't think the backend is python
<rick_h> though you can say the first google search engine was written in python
<brousch> anyways, another idea for the list. maybe i'll lightning talk it at pyohio and see who's interested
<snap-l> Well, I expect the minimize button to die a death sometime soon
<rick_h> heh, come on snap-l, when are you ready for tiling boot camp?
<snap-l> because the younger crowd doesn't use it
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, because if I'm going to change my workflow, I might as well do it wholesale.
<rick_h> no one takes your toys away over here :)
<brousch> snap-l: i didn't see what annoyed you in that thread
<brousch> i very rarely minimize a window
<snap-l> brousch: bunch of people who think the minimize button is redundant
<snap-l> That's great, but there are people who do, myself included.
<brousch> oh, they want to remove it?
<brousch> i didn't read the whole thing
<snap-l> I don't think so, but I could see the sentiment pushing it to that level
<brousch> bah, who cares. it'll only happen in unity
<snap-l> It's like my worst nightmare: fully maximized applications with no way to get them out of my face.
<snap-l> I worked IT. That's how the secretaries worked
<rick_h> I've been saying for a while now that wallpapers are deprecated :P
<brousch> switch to a different workspace
<snap-l> brousch: yes, because workspaces will save us all
<snap-l> fuck me
<snap-l> why not shove everything onto the floor
<snap-l> hell, desks are deprecated, just crawl on the ground and move to your work
<brousch> i work with 1 or 2 windows/desktop
<brousch> when it's full, i go to another one
<snap-l> I'm glad that works FOR YOU
<snap-l> I like to put things away when I'm not using them
<brousch> omg you are so old
<snap-l> Yeah, and I like sharing too
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> I remember full screen apps. They were called DOS apps
<rick_h> you guys play nice
<rick_h> back to the terminal!
<brousch> minimizing is not putting things away
<snap-l> brousch: It's getting things out of my sight
<snap-l> and no, putting it on another workspace doesn't work for me
<snap-l> It's the equivalent of shoving it onto the floor
<brousch> on the floor everything is in one pile
<snap-l> Yes, and on another workspace, it's another pile
<brousch> it's more like having a ring of monitors around you and you swivel to look at which one you want
<snap-l> Were it only so elegant
<snap-l> So, I should have my openvpn window up all the time?
<snap-l> or run it via nohup and have it logged?
<snap-l> How about minimizing it, so I don't have to worry about it
<brousch> eh?
<brousch> i see minimization as an additional state i need to remember
<snap-l> brousch: point being, I can minimize it, and it still runs and takes up no workspace at all
<snap-l> I see workspaces in the same way
<brousch> so not only is the program i want on some workspace, now i have to remember if it's showing or hidden on that workspace
<brousch> i always have 10 workspaces, so it's not like they're a scarce resource
<snap-l> I have 4, because that's what I get
<brousch> use alt-1 to alt-0 to switch between them
<snap-l> I really hope that some UX designer doesn't decide some part of your workflow is deprecated
<brousch> snap-l: they did, which is why i'm using kde
<snap-l> Maybe that's the answer
<snap-l> instead of using a designed interface, just use one that was designed by a committe and thrown into a blender.
<brousch> i use my gnome2 workflow, with menues where they're supposed to be and with a stable number of workspaces
<brousch> designed by commitee implies that the committee picked one way to do something. kde is more like designed by everybody
<brousch> however you want to do it, you can
<snap-l> Well, it's not like I can run back to a mac, because they're changing shit over there too
<snap-l> GET OFF MY DESKTOP YOU DAMN KIDS
<brousch> that's my point. you can make kde use whatever workflow you want
<brousch> you can use one workspace like windows and minimize all your applications
<snap-l> brousch: but can it keep me from throwing up in my mouth
<snap-l> because everytime I use KDE, that's where my lunch heads.
<brousch> and then you can set the panel to show those minimized windows in many different ways to help you pick the right one
<brousch> i like the oxygen theme
<brousch> kind of a grayscale theme
<jrwren> rick_h: "caption splitonly" "hardstatus ignore"
<jrwren> hides the byobu bar in screen.
<jrwren> i bound it to h for hide.
<jrwren> then for unhide i bound to H "caption always"    "hardstatus alwayslastline"
<jrwren> who says python doesn'ts scale?
<snap-l> People who should know better, I'm assuming
<snap-l> God, I'm becoming rick_h
<_Marcus> I know Michigan is right next to Canada, but why is the "All About Us" link ur1.ca?
<rick_h> ruh roh
<snap-l> using the split function of tmux to run watch pep8 *.py, and editing in the bottom split
<snap-l> _Marcus: It's a URL shortener run by a person we trust
<_Marcus> Oh
<snap-l> Evan Prodromeau, who is based out of Canada
<snap-l> Quebec, I believe
<jrwren> snap-l: why not pyflakes?
<snap-l> pyflakes doesn't show pep8 errors
<jrwren> yes it does.
<snap-l> in vim?
<rick_h> not all,
<rick_h> you need to run both
<jrwren> what?
<jrwren> that is opposite of what i read.
<rick_h> pyflakes doesn't so thing like spacing issues, etc
<rick_h> I run both, on my build server for just this reason
<jrwren> pyflakes-vim ?
<rick_h> that's why there's a thing called flake8 that tries to do both
<rick_h> but hacky, since it includes both source files
<rick_h> :/
<jrwren> oh wow, pyflakes-vim is dead... long live syntastic
<rick_h> yea, but I've not gotten that to run right yet
<snap-l> http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2441
<snap-l> jrwren: Not dead, afaict
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, it's pretty dead, author isn't messing with it any more
<jrwren> snap-l: that page is dead with link to github
<jrwren> github readme says it dead with link to syntastic
<jrwren> snap-l: you can read, right?  ;p
<snap-l> jrwren: Don't confuse me with facts
<jrwren> snap-l the republican
<snap-l> The only thing i read on those pages is "how do I download"
<snap-l> I prefer to think of myself as an independent idiot. ;)
<jrwren> lol.
<snap-l> And now I think it's time for Pathogen
<rick_h> yea, pathogen ftw
<snap-l> Oh, awesome... Squeezebox managed to pick a very soothing background piece of electronica
<snap-l> didn't realize it. :)
<snap-l> like sonic furniture
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/rildrim
<snap-l> Dreamed Rules was the album I was listening to
<snap-l> I know this is likely a moot point, but it appears most of the annoying twits have left identi.ca
<snap-l> They're moving to diaspora or Google Plus instead.
<snap-l> OK, I <3 Syntactic
<snap-l> has already helped me clean up dead variables.
<rick_h> does it work right for you? gumble
<snap-l> You have to install pyflakes separately.
<snap-l> or pylint / flake 8, etc
<rick_h> yea, did that
<rick_h> ok, well I'll give it another go sometime. I ended up just keeping my pyflakes fork
<snap-l> Check your bundle directory to see if git didn't eat it
<snap-l> if you cloned from git, it'll have it's own .git directory
<rick_h> I think I just installed it, pip style
<snap-l> and that really makes other gits jealous
<snap-l> Not sure how it works with virtualenvs
<rick_h> yea, you have to install in each venv, been doing that with pep8/pyflakes
<snap-l> I installed pyflakes system-wide.
<snap-l> apt-get
<snap-l> Alright, which one of you sold your Apple stock? http://www.cnbc.com/id/46835129
 * ColonelPanic001 lights a cigar with a $100 bill
<ColonelPanic001> no I, of course.
<ColonelPanic001> if it were me, I could have afforded to type "not" properly.
<snap-l> You cold have had your butler do spell checking
<ColonelPanic001> exactly.
<snap-l> http://webdesign.tutsplus.com/articles/contests/whats-the-most-valuable-lesson-youve-ever-learned/ <- Is it just me, or does the first three sentences of this article sound like it needs to be delivered with skinny jeans and an attitude?
<snap-l> "No, not an eBook, thereâs no Kindle edition and you canât read it on your iPad" which means, essentially, fuck you.
<greg-g> snap-l: I know better than you how you should consume information most efficiently, which is why I'm a designer in the first place, I know better than everyone. Can't you tell by my macbook air and $8 espresso I'm holding?
<snap-l> "The most valuable lesson Iâve learned? Keeping the customer satisfied, even if that means making a PDF, eBook, Kindle, or iPad version of your hipster design manual."
<tjagoda> bah
<tjagoda> my gtalk is vomiting errors
<tjagoda> FFFUUUU GOOOGGGLLLEEEE
<brousch> wow, greg-g with another grumpy old man quote
<brousch> i'm gonna chalk it up to lack of sleep due to baby
<rick_h> hah
<greg-g> brousch: :) Carrie and I have noticed we both got a ton more cynical lately
<rick_h> that wont' get any better :)
<brousch> sure it will
<brousch> once the child sleeps for 8 hours most nights
<rick_h> naw, then you're cynical about more things
<rick_h> other parents, non parents, day care, how kids play at the playground, you get all kinds of things to get cynical about
<greg-g> yeah, we'll see :)
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/angelight-shamansity/ <- I have a hard time taking this album seriously
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't been on Magnatune in ages
<_Marcus> Hey, you're name is like that drink. I just noticed that
<snap-l> _Marcus: Hey, your name is like a Roman Emperor. ;)
<_Marcus> :)
<snap-l> But yes, it's a nick that I've used for about 20 years now
<_Marcus> That's 1992. Snapple was introduced in 1972
<snap-l> yes, and it was during a period when I drank a lot of Snapple Iced Tea
<snap-l> Actually, more like 17 years
<_Marcus> Lol
<ColonelPanic001> my name is like that message you get when /boot is on an reiserfs partition and you recompile your kernel without reiserfs.
<ColonelPanic001> at least, that's the only time I remember seeing it myself
<_Marcus> My name is like that one that I was given after birth
<ColonelPanic001> pft
<snap-l> gah, had someone try to ssh into my system
<snap-l> Just turned off ssh port forwarding.
<brousch> that was me trying to pirate your CC music collection
<snap-l> heh
<_Marcus> snap-l: How do you access it without SSH?
<Blazeix> telnet
<jrwren> o-O
<jrwren> why would you turn off ... oh... you stopped forwarding 22, not turned off ssh port forwarding.
<jrwren> sounded like you AllowTcpForwarding=no
<jrwren> which would be silly ;)
<greg-g> WHOA! I just opened a PDF in Fx Nightly and it used pdf.js to show it in-browser!
<jrwren> cool.
<jrwren> what is Fx Nightly?
<jrwren> Aurora ?
<greg-g> uh.... I forget, I use a PPA
<snap-l> Well, I'm on the local machine, so I don't need ssh for now
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-24
<greg-g> I feel like asking this person who submitted a bid to be our conference planner: "And how do you explain your use of an @aol.com email address?"
<snap-l> greg-g: Simple: It means they've been on the internet a very long time
<snap-l> either that or they're really, really cheap. ;)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> yeah, really long time without desiring to migrate email addresses, which I understand
<greg-g> I'm still migrating people away from my @gmail address to my @grossmeier.net one. The hardest ones to move? Parents.
<greg-g> I kind of wish I still had access to my original account, but it was tied to our local ISP, nemonet.com (North East Missouri Net)
<greg-g> There is one trace in google of a message from me to a mailing list with that account from like 95. Sent to a Red Hat mailing list where I (/me hangs head) used the word "Windoze"
<greg-g> hey, I was 13
<greg-g> (and yeah, if you go to nemonet.com, it redirects to earthlink (I'm surprised they still own the domain!), they were bought out, sadly.)
<snap-l> I'm entering in BBC Music magazine discs into Musicbrainz
<snap-l> and I have to say, French Composers suck
<snap-l> fuckin' accents
<greg-g> haha
<snap-l> Yay! All of the BBC music magazine discs are in Musicbrainz
<snap-l> at least all of the ones i have
<jrwren> greg-g: what you got against winblows? :)
<snap-l> G'morning
<rick_h> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-25
<jrwren> gmorning
<brousch> morninK
<rick_h> party
<snap-l> Good morning
 * snap-l picked up a shit-ton of Rush remasters at Best Buy for $5 each
<snap-l> currently re-listening to Power Windows
<rick_h> 382500
<rick_h> snap-l: nice
<snap-l> Yeah, I've been on the fence about them for a while. Some of themare better thn others.
<snap-l> Changes on some are pretty dramatic (Power Windows and Signals are louder)
<snap-l> Hemispheres sounds a lot better
<snap-l> Presto sounds almost identical, but has more presence.
<snap-l> Anywho, time to make the groceries
<rick_h> yea, just got back from that myself
<rick_h> now exhausted
<snap-l> Achievement unlocked: Groceries
<brousch> ur insane
 * snap-l needs to create a snipmate template for the json I use for playlists.
<snap-l> Snipmate can suck a dick
<jrwren> achievement unlocked: 10+mi bikeride
<rick_h> jrwren: awesome
<rick_h> snap-l: what did poor snipmate do to you onw?
<snap-l> rick_h: Tried to make a json snippet for a playlist entry
<snap-l> it either ignores it, or freezes snipmate.
<snap-l> Finishing up the next Instrumetalcast
<jrwren> rick_h: bmarks.us/jrwren/new giving 503
<jrwren> err.... bmark.us/jrwren/new :)
<jrwren> err... 502
<Blazeix> is the bmark.us/jrwren/new different than bmark.us/jrwren/recent ?
<rick_h> jrwren: ok, looking
<jrwren> Blazeix: yes, new is where you submit new urls to be marked
<Blazeix> ah, ok
<rick_h> jrwren: ok, updated and should be working
<rick_h> added a card to add a test for that, my bad there
<rick_h> 310439
<brousch> 310440
<greg-g> 310441
<brousch> i cleaned my office to the point where i can use the desk. i found about $2000 in stuff to sell
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-18
<rick_h_> hacking hacking hacking...so much fun hacking
<rick_h_> damn I missed this
<rick_h_> woot, bug fixed. Been a while.
<snap-l> Nice!
<snap-l> I signed up for Stamps.com
<snap-l> so if anyone needs anything shipped, let me know. :)
<snap-l> Medium Flat Rate Priority Mail box is 11.30
<rick_h_> the snap-l post-office woot
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> snap-l: I need to ship this box
<brousch> Do you do pick-ups?
<snap-l> brousch: no, you'll need to ship it to me first.
<snap-l> and then I'll see how much it is to ship it and then charge you shipping
<jjesse-home> brousch: maybe we should combine shipments then?
<snap-l> Finally found  band that used the Experimental tag appropriately on Bandcamp
<snap-l> I'm not sure if I should kiss them, hug, them, or give them handjobs
<snap-l> It's the first time I've clicked on one of those albums and not have it sound like I plugged into a 60hz dryer fucking
<brousch> jjesse-home: I can load up my minivan for the once a year trip I make to Detroit and we can ship everything at once
<jjesse-home> brousch: sounds like a great plan to me
<rick_h_> ok, well fought crap long enough for tonight. ugh
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yo
<rick_h_> hmmm, adding sentry to my app is overdue it looks like. Cool stuff
<brousch> I haven't looked at it yet
<brousch> What does it do?
<rick_h_> takes logging/exeptions to a remote web app
<rick_h_> you should like it, a django app :P
<brousch> $24/mo
<brousch> My aching Dutch wallet!
<rick_h_> yea, hoping to use the dev version for bookie
<rick_h_> cool, hooked up to bmark.us now.
<rick_h_> https://app.getsentry.com/bookie/bmarkus/group/3900961/ does that work?
<brousch> There's an error already!
<brousch> Seems to work
<brousch> Sorry, an "event"
<rick_h_> heh, yea I know that's an error so I use it for testing exceptions :)
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: Probably should update lococast.net to 3.5.1
<jcastro> did the sun get deleted today?
<snap-l> We've deprecated the sun
<snap-l> It's now been replaced by the cloud
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh ok will put it on the todo list
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, left without a coat today and kind of not sure that was wise
<rick_h_> stupid week in ATL fooled me into thinking spring was near
<rick_h_> ok, updated the mifi, upped my data cap and it can now support 10 devices on 4g. So CHC should be getting a wifi improvement
<rick_h_> snap-l: updated
<UnFixed_> Has anyone here used Ting? (cellular service)
<rick_h_> UnFixed_: snap-l is your man
<UnFixed_> I ask because i feel like i originally saw it mentioned here
<UnFixed_> rick_h_: ty
<UnFixed_> snap-l: assuming you're in MI, how do you like Ting?
<rick_h_> UnFixed_: yea, snap-l is the big convert and can get you all the info and a helpful referral code :)
<UnFixed_> neat
<UnFixed_> my contract is up soon
<UnFixed_> a week adn a half or so
<UnFixed_> looking to switch soon
<rick_h_> woot, 21MB down and 12.6 up on the new mifi
<rick_h_> UnFixed_: basically it's sprint so you want to check their network coverage
<rick_h_> but he seems to love their services/company
<UnFixed_> well, im wondering about Data, do i get throttled differently than a sprint customer?
<UnFixed_> or am i essentially getting the same service, under a different name/price-structure?
<rick_h_> yea, can't speak intelligently to that. Have to bug snap-l
<snap-l> I have used Ting
<snap-l> I love it
<snap-l> UnFixed_: ^^
<snap-l> https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/ <- Referral code
<snap-l> UnFixed_: re data: You pay for whatever you use.
<snap-l> I've usually been under the 1GB mark (usually under 500MB, even) but this month because I was using it for tethering I'll likely be in the 500MB - 1GB range
<snap-l> Note: That's for two phones. :)
<rick_h_> heh, wife's phone avgs 580mb/mo and I average 950mb/mo.
<snap-l> So you'd be in the XL bracket. :)
<snap-l> $42 a month
<UnFixed_> snap-l: have you tried their "byod"
<snap-l> UnFixed_: I have not
<snap-l> I bought my devices outright from Ting
<UnFixed_> not sure i want to drop ~$500 on "old" phones
<snap-l> but they do support BYOD for Sprint customers
<snap-l> https://help.ting.com/forums/21506547-bring-your-own-device-byod
<UnFixed_> but their whitelist is pretty short for sprint phones
<snap-l> Has to be out of contract
<UnFixed_> yeah, i have a gsm phone anyways
<UnFixed_> but was thinking about buying something used, use it for a few months
<UnFixed_> then get a new phone when something i like releases
<snap-l> They have the Galaxy SII that I have for 185 refurb
<snap-l> Has Android 4.0 on it
<snap-l> Would be a good way to see if you like the service without incurring too much expense.
<UnFixed_> very true
<snap-l> If you're in the area and want to come to CHC, I'd be happy to show you my phone
<UnFixed_> i'm familiar with the galaxy s II
<UnFixed_> just not sure i want to spend $185 if im going to switch phones in a few months
<UnFixed_> might as well just spend $400 for a nexus then
<snap-l> They have a pretty active community of people who would love to take that off your hands
<snap-l> Well, on the plus side, you have a phone that isn't under contract
<snap-l> so you can give it to family members, or sell it online
<snap-l> so in 3 months if you don't want it, you're not stuck with 2 years of it
<UnFixed_> thats true also
<snap-l> https://help.ting.com/forums/21098408-Buy-Sell
<UnFixed_> galaxy nexus for $225 seems pretty nice
<jcastro> no!
<jcastro> that's only $75 cheaper than a nexus 4!
<UnFixed_> nexus 4, no lte
<UnFixed_> gsm only
<UnFixed_> i want to wait for another nexus to release
<UnFixed_> but dont know when that will be
<jcastro> usually for xmas
<UnFixed_> which means continuing on my current plan for a number of months
<UnFixed_> i'll probably save enough money with ting to jusitfy buying a new nexus by then
<snap-l> Honestly the only differences I've seen between my phone and JoDee's nexus are:
<snap-l> 1) No stupid Sprint Nascar bullshit
<snap-l> 2) Android 4.1
<UnFixed_> i like the concept of the open nexus
<snap-l> Yeah, I do too
<UnFixed_> no carrier software
<snap-l> had it been available when I bought my phone, i would have gone with the Nexus
<snap-l> That said, it's $404 new on Ting
<UnFixed_> yeah
<snap-l> Referral should give you $25 off
<UnFixed_> but someone on their forum is offering a new one from sprint for $225
<UnFixed_> might be worth the hassle to port
<UnFixed_> if i buy it at $404, i'd be much less tempted to upgrade when a new nexus arrives
<snap-l> UnFixed_: One question: how is sprint service around your house?
<UnFixed_> honestly, no idea
<snap-l> Around our house it's not that great
<snap-l> but none of our phones did terribly well (tmobile, AT&T)
<UnFixed_> well, t-mobile isnt amazing around my house either
<UnFixed_> but they have their "wifi calling" thing that helps a lot
<UnFixed_> not sure what they call it exactly
<snap-l> Yeah, it hasn't been a problem for us, but something to keep in mind
<UnFixed_> their map shows my house being covered, but i may have to ask around my neighborhood
<UnFixed_> find someone with sprint service
<snap-l> Yeah, our house is covered as well, but we're in a block that has amazingly poor cell coverage as a whole.
<snap-l> If I get mad money, I might get one of those portable antenna.
<snap-l> http://now.sprint.com/airave/?ECID=vanity:airaveaccesspoint
<snap-l> Honestly, if it were free, that would be a no-brainer. :)
<UnFixed_> i'd have to firewall it off from the rest of the house
<UnFixed_> but otherwise, i feel the same
<UnFixed_> tombile's wifi calling was the one thing i really liked about their service
<UnFixed_> in most places I have terrible cell signals, i usually have wifi.
<snap-l> yeah, not sure why they don't just use the wifi, since it's connected already.
<snap-l> They very well might
<greg-g> anyone else's github filters stop breaking? ie: all these bookie bugs stayin in my inbox instead of going to my bugs folder
<rick_h_> greg-g: sorry, don't filer them so didn't notice
<rick_h_> sorry for the spam :(
<rick_h_> snap-l: because then you don't use your minutes while you're in the office all day
<rick_h_> and I'd imagine there's some increase in help/support with people with devices on wifi where office networks cut off certain access
<snap-l> UnFixed_: But offer still stands: If you have any questions about Ting, please feel free to let me know. I'm more than happy with the service I've received.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Right, that makes sense
<snap-l> https://ting.com/devices/Sprint-Homephone-Connect <- also intrigues me
<snap-l> but we already have pretty awesome VOIP coverage.
<UnFixed_> now that i might spring for
<UnFixed_> been looking at ooma
<UnFixed_> and some other home phones that connect to cell phones
<greg-g> rick_h_: no worries, I like seeing the action, just odd that my filters no longer work
<jcastro> smoser: http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/17/lenovo-teases-next-generation-thinkpad-x-series-at-expand/
<jcastro> rick_h_: ^^
<greg-g> YUCK!
<greg-g> crappy looking keyboard
<brousch> ooooooh, chicklet
<brousch> want!
<snap-l> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/03/lb1785-1363543843.jpg <- This picture just looks wrong.
<snap-l> Must be the new lickable interface
<greg-g> blogcdn.com?
<greg-g> that is a pretty cool screen hinge
<smoser> jcastro, i say boo to the new power input
<smoser> but yeah to everything else.
<smoser> what will i do with the 13 thinkpad power supplies i have?
<brousch> smoser: eba
<brousch> y
<smoser> greg-g, i have a e420 which seems to have a similar keyboard. chicklet style, and also the x120e, and i'm not unhappy with either keyboard.
<smoser> the function keys being media keys by default is annoyhing, but easily toggled in bios.
<greg-g> I just got a Dell XPS at work, totally unplussed about the (similar) keyboard)
<smoser> you said you got a dell, and then you said something about it sucking
<smoser> thats all i heard.
<greg-g> smoser: :)
<smoser> i dont understand the relevance
<smoser> :)
<greg-g> touche
<rick_h_> jcastro: that's what I linked to you the other day
<rick_h_> same pics
<rick_h_> the lack of the real buttons for the trackpoint are what worry me
<rick_h_> smoser: hah, yea with the wife and I on the same power supplies we've got 'drops' all over the house in normal laptop spots
<smoser> yeah, the lack of real buttons could be bad.
<smoser> i like my 3 buttons.
<rick_h_> right, it's what makes the thinkpad trackpoint > * imo
<rick_h_> the scrolling with the middle button
<smoser> idont know of "scrolling with middle button"
<rick_h_> the middle button you can hold down and use the trackpoint to scroll?
<brousch> omg i didn't know that either
<brousch> that is awesome
<smoser> well, that is pretty nice.
<smoser> :)
<rick_h_> lmao
<brousch> I always move to the touchpad and two finger scroll
<rick_h_> it's what got me to <3 trackpoint
<smoser> thats freaking awesome.
<rick_h_> thumb on middle button, scroll with trackpoint ftw
<rick_h_> hand stays on home row
<smoser> here i was using a SCROLL BAR for scrolling
<rick_h_> yea, it's patented so dell/hp don't have that middle button and can't add it
<rick_h_> why I can't use any other trackpoint setup
<brousch> So maybe I shouldn't change my ways
<smoser> well, the trackpoint in general still has patents covering it.
<smoser> at least i've always assumed so.
<smoser> otherwise every $12 keyboard ever made would have trackpoint + 2 buttons.
<greg-g> yay patents ;)
<greg-g> artificial monopoly prices ftw!
<rick_h_> yea, when we did the interview with the system76 guy for Lococast I asked about it because I can't get a laptop sans trackpoint and he mentioned the patent/licensing fees aroudn it
<smoser> the original patents are lik 1987 or something.
<smoser> so they've long since run out.
<smoser> but ibm is patent king. they know how to work that system.
<brousch> But Thinkpads are Lenovo now
<smoser> right. but lenovo bought access to lots of stuff in that.
<smoser> if nothing else, rights to use the 'Think' brand.
<rick_h_> yea, I'm sure there's some patent license thing written up for lenovo
<smoser> but i dont understand why lenovo doesn't throw the trackpoint on all their laptops (the non-thinkpad line).
<greg-g> could be a term of their license "don't soil this feature on your crappy line of laptops"
<rick_h_> I bet it's costs and most people find it strange until they use it
<rick_h_> took my wife a year to convert from the touchpad
<rick_h_> of course, doesn't help that thinkpads have horrible touchpads
<jcastro> I think out of all touchpads thinkpads are the best
<jcastro> if there is such a thing as a good touchpad
<jcastro> I like that they're textured instead of glass
<brousch> No, Apple's are the best
<rick_h_> I thought the apple one was the best I ever used and I don't care for touchpads
<rick_h_> they're huge and responsive when I used one
<rick_h_> of course my preference towards smaller and smaller laptops means I get smaller and smaller/useless touchpads
<rick_h_> the apple one I used was on a 17" and my last two laptops have been 12.1/12.5" models
<snap-l> yeah, I have to say the Apple touch pads are quite nice
<rick_h_> woot, ok, really ready for CHC now. Have the travel routes doing wifi account sharig with the mifi and tested at the house here at 5.5MB. So we should be able to have 4-12 people online at a time sharing the mifi at CHC from now on.
<rick_h_>  /travel routes/travel router
<rick_h_> lol, guido is moved all over. From google docs to dropbox doc! https://www.dropbox.com/s/xknbe58zcvjhzhv/PyCon2013.pptx
<snap-l> http://blog.linode.com/2013/03/18/linode-nextgen-the-hardware/
<snap-l> moar cpu
<brousch> I hadn't heard of dropbox doc
<rick_h_> well it's a pptx stored in dropbox
<snap-l> Wish there was a way for the computer to automatically tell me "no, idiot, you're in the wrong directory"
<snap-l> Thank God for git checkout.
<snap-l> to undo the changes I made in the directory that I wasn't supposed to be in)
<UnFixed_> latitudes have exceptionally crap touchpads
<UnFixed_> my only regret over not getting a thinkpad
<snap-l> Latitudes are OK machines, but Dell has really let their quality suffer
<snap-l> I think the D530 was the last decent laptop they made.
<UnFixed_> I love my E6510, except for the crap touchpad
<UnFixed_> 95% of the time, its fine.
<UnFixed_> 5% of the time, i want to grab a mouse
<UnFixed_> becomes unresponsive
<snap-l> I know I'm going to get a beat-down for this, but I like the Chrome Pixel sight unseen
<rick_h_> snap-l: lol "sight unseen"
<rick_h_> snap-l: I'd tinker with one, but HD is too small for a real ubuntu install so what's the point
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-19
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, well, it's a neat little toy
<snap-l> Expensive for a neat little toy, but a neat little toy
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, definitely
<snap-l> RAM is too small for an Ubuntu install either
<snap-l> 4GB RAM is low-end RAM IMHO
<rick_h_> yea, that's true
<rick_h_> I had a co-worker getting cranky he couldn't get an X1 with 16GB of ram and I wondered wtf he was doing
<snap-l> two kvm VMs, and you're pretty much there
<rick_h_> bah
<snap-l> Honestly the ony reason my Phenom 9850 machine is still usable is the RAM (8GB)
<snap-l> That and the 4 CPUs
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> I'm all for 8gb (though I don't think I've ever hit it)
<snap-l> Well, Linux will hit it
<snap-l> That's the beauty, it'll use whatever you throw at it
<snap-l> and will swap out what it doesn't need
<snap-l> cache, buffers, etc
<jcastro> I'm feeling the desktop crunch too with my Phenom
<jcastro> I'll likely snag a S76 next month
<snap-l> Yeah, when we get some mad money I might just go with System 76
<rick_h_> yea, I sometimes get an itch to go desktop again.
<rick_h_> and a sys76 for desktop I don't have the concerns I do with laptop needs
<jcastro> I still need a laptop
<jcastro> but I use my desktop every day more
<rick_h_> yea, defintely...for CHC :)
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Thank God for Netflix
<snap-l> JoDee is now watching Extreme Couponing
<snap-l> Better than paying for Cable for that garbage. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Well, she's also been sick the past few days
<rick_h_83> bah did all this to setup mifi for CHC and just realized I won't be there this week. ugh
<snap-l> Where are you going to be?
<rick_h_> home...wife's got a thing
<rick_h_> so I've got to do music class with the boy and get him to bed
<snap-l> Tell her you need a permission slip
<rick_h_> so I'll have to do remote participation
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/104830397600661749765/posts/jjZ2hoddge2
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Finally done with Verizon for now
<snap-l> Last bill was for $0.00 (coincidentally the first bill Verizon was lower than Ting. ;))
<snap-l> Told JoDee we should switch back., She was not amused
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> hah, so jodee is officially done with them as well then?
<rick_h_> 'ting family' :)
<snap-l> Yep, we're all Tinging here
<jcastro> rick_h_: http://readwrite.com/2013/03/19/lenovo-why-are-you-designing-thinkpads-no-one-wants
<rick_h_> jcastro: lol @ title
<rick_h_> !$!$!$! Eliminating the removable battery
<jcastro> he has a point wrt. battery and screen
<rick_h_> missed that nugget...
<jcastro> me too
<jcastro> that's kind of a deal breaker
<rick_h_> I get a new battery every year...*sigh*
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> and not because I swap out batteries when travelling
<rick_h_> yea, I mean 6hrs battery life on a new 6 cell...by end of the year that's down to 4
<jcastro> mostly because you have to replace them yearly
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> I mean it 'works' but it's not at full strength
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> so for me, for a laptop that counts as "not working"
<jcastro> also lol @ the comments
<jcastro> "why does my phone have a higher res screen?"
<rick_h_> I'm on board with this. N10 has more res than any monitor in my house... :(
<jcastro> it's likely that the new X series is similarly gimped
<rick_h_> nooooooooooo
<jcastro> that's just a guess
<rick_h_> touch display can shove it...do not care
<rick_h_> I cant' stand the finger prints on my phone/tablets/car touchscreen now
<rick_h_> laptops are going to be even more gross in the future with touch screens
<jcastro> indeed
<rick_h_> damn things better come in with windshield wipers
<jcastro> hmm, the X1 carbon doesn't have a removable battery either
<jcastro> but it has that quick charge thing
<jcastro> still .... *look of disapproval*
<rick_h_> ugh, well can only hope they get the message and don't destroy my X-series
<snap-l> If I'm going to buy an expensive laptop with a non-removable battery, I'll buy an Apple
<jcastro> The battery isnât easy to replace, but that moment should be a fair way off â the usual ThinkVantage tools make it possible to limit the batteryâs maximum charge and so extend its lifespan at the expense of runtime.
<jcastro> UGH.
<snap-l> If I can't replace the battery in less than 10 minutes (1 minute to replace the battery, 9 minutes of congratulatory beer drinking) then it's not worth it
<snap-l> I might even give them 11 minutes, if it  means 1 minute to replace the battery, and 10 minutes of congratulatory beer drinking)
<rick_h_> jcastro: ok, now I'm also curious if they're ditching doc connectors and such
<jcastro> the X1 has a dock connector
<snap-l> Yea, it's called a VGA out and USB
<snap-l> ;)
<jcastro> yeah I so don't care about docks tbh
<jcastro> 1995.
<snap-l> I care about docks if they give me better functionality than the device contains
<rick_h_> I do, dual 21" display ftw
<snap-l> otherwise, yeah
<jcastro> I have a dedicated machine for such things
<rick_h_> plus scanner, con call camera, etc are all plugged into usb ports on the monitor
<rick_h_> yea, see my laptop is my machine
<jcastro> at some point Dropbox made me not care about using the same machine for everything
<rick_h_> my desktop hasn't been turned on for months
<snap-l> Yeah, Ubuntu One did that for me. I just don't save anything anymore. ;)
 * rick_h_ is too depressed to work now
<rick_h_> well good thing we just got my wife a new machine. She's good for the next 3-4 years
<snap-l> rick_h_: It's going to get worse
<jcastro> I am getting a new desktop before I get a new laptop
 * jcastro is eying a system76
<snap-l> pretty soon we'll have laptops that you're not even allowed to open without a service tech
<rick_h_> since desktop == laptop I was thinking of upgrading when the new mobile chips came out at the end of the year
<jjesse> snap-l,  isn't that a macbook air?
<rick_h_> exactly
<rick_h_> I guess it's been a while since I held onto a machine for 3 full years :/
<rick_h_> maybe need to get on the annual air upgrade cycle
<snap-l> TGhey shortened it to 6 months
<rick_h_> heh, so I'll get two cycles out of it
<brousch> We'll all be working on tablets soon
<brousch> Tablets and cloud servers. what more do you need?
<snap-l> Keyboards
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> seriously, go look at your tablet screen and tell me you want to work on that 10hrs a day
<brousch> My tablet has a keyboard
<brousch> My tablet has better res and more pixels than my laptop
<snap-l> brousch: Local storage
<brousch> 32GB included with 2 SD slots
<snap-l> Linux Operating System and a development stack
<brousch> LinuxOnAndroid
<snap-l> Eclipse.
<rick_h_> git
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'm sure there's some android git thingie
<rick_h_> and ability to load my vimrc
<rick_h_> if it can't run my .vimrc it's not a computer yet :P
<brousch> LoA has git and vim
<rick_h_> and can load my .vimrc?
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think your .vimrc passes the turing test.
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim
<brousch> It's ubuntu run in a chroot
<rick_h_> if that installs/runs then we'll chat :)
<brousch> So if the packages are in the ARM repo then it should work
<rick_h_> so what's your point then? You can run ubuntu on a small arm machine?
<brousch> Yes, a tablet
<rick_h_> this is better than a laptop how again?
<brousch> this is where laptops are going
<snap-l> Now I know how the early Microcomputer adopters felt
<brousch> I didn't say it was better, I said it is possible
<snap-l> "single user computers. bah."
<snap-l> "Where do you put the punch cards?"
<snap-l> "Cassette Tape? Seriously? You can't store anything on cassettes."
<brousch> The trend seems to be tabletizing laptops, but it's not the end of the world
<snap-l> "Those floppy disks will never take off"
<snap-l> Just waiting for the first kid to call me a dinosaur because I'm using a keyboard with my computer
<brousch> I use the tablet a lot at home, and then I find myself wanting to touch my laptop's screen to do some things
<snap-l> I better start using an IBM Model M so I can knock the taste clean out of his mouth
<rick_h_> never had that urge and I use my tablet all the time after work hours in an effort to step away
<rick_h_> but I do hear that a lot
<brousch> snap-l: A physical keyboard? Ew, gross! It's full of crumbs and dead skin. Why don't you use a projected laser keyboard or Leapmotion?
<snap-l> brousch: Why don't you go find some traffic to play in? :)
<brousch> rick_h_: You use a lot more keyboard shortcuts than I do
<brousch> I'm much more click-happy, and sometimes a touch is faster than moving a mouse pointer to where I want to click
<rick_h_> not my fault you're doing it wrong :P
<brousch> I know. You've tried to fix me
<snap-l> brousch: You're what we refer to as a "work in progress"
<snap-l> brousch: also a PITA, but we don't say that out loud. ;)
<brousch> I have a couple of projects I'm doing in vim without Eclipse, so I'm getting there
<snap-l> Honestly, if I never have to boot up Eclipse, it'll be too soon
<snap-l> which means I'll have to do a project in it within a month
<brousch> Kivy can make Android apps in vim, so I really have no reason to keep Eclipse around
<snap-l> I need to play more with Kivy
<snap-l> Wonder how it works for direct screen draws
<snap-l> yep
<brousch> I have a hell of a time trying to work on my big work Django project with vim though. There's just too many dirs
<snap-l> NERDTree
<brousch> Kivy is all opengl underneath
<snap-l> or ctrlp
<snap-l> http://vimcasts.org/episodes/the-file-explorer/ <- This is also helpful
<snap-l> though the native explorer is not friendly to my fingers
<brousch> I've tried it, but it's much clumsier than Eclipse for me
<snap-l> NERDTree should be equivalent
<snap-l> at least in gvim
<snap-l> I can't wrap my head around ctrlp
<snap-l> or more accurately, I haven't put in the cycles to get my head wrapped around ctrlp
<snap-l> waitaminute, kivy is using pygame?
<snap-l> WHYHAVEYOUNOTTOLDMETHISBEFORE?
<brousch> Well it uses pygame underneath, but you can't directly convert pygame stuff to it
<snap-l> Right, it looks like there's a layer on top of it
<rick_h_> can't wrap your head aroud ctrlp? you hit ctrlp and start typing characters until your file shows up
<snap-l> Wonder if I could port busy busy bugs to it
<rick_h_> it's a regex-like match. just start typing
<snap-l> rick_h_: And when it goes off on a tangent finding something else, I have a hard time getting it back onto track
<rick_h_> snap-l: hit escape and try again?
<snap-l> It makes me have to think. :)
<rick_h_> normally if a filename is common I forget I need a folder it's in I just escape/try again
<brousch> I always end up accidentally closing my nerdtree pane
<rick_h_> brousch: I close it all the time, ,a is mapped to reopen it
<brousch> I want it always there, unclosabl
<rick_h_> usually with ctrlp I don't need nerdtree and get my pixels back
<rick_h_> two files side by side on my 12" display, or three on my docked display
<brousch> snap-l: I'll be giving a Kivy talk at MobiDevDay Detroit
<rick_h_> brousch: rocking on!
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I'm not invested enough in Mobile to go, but that's awesome. :)
<brousch> And hopefully at PyOhio
<brousch> It runs on the desktop too
<snap-l> I'll definitely be at the PyOhio talk
<rick_h_> I don't know what I'm going to submit to pyohio this year :(
<snap-l> hopefully not fucking with a camera. :)
<brousch> Assuming it's accepted
<rick_h_> haven't been doing anything really cool the last year
<brousch> I also have a collection of common Django things that are hard to figure out, my "Django Nuggets", that I might submit as a talk
<rick_h_> "nugget #1...it sucks stop using it!!!!!" :P
<brousch> :P
<brousch> Our newest FriendlyCode (Code for America) project is Pylons-based
<brousch> But it installed so easily we didn't need to know any Pylons
<rick_h_> wsgi ftw
<brousch> http://data.grcity.us/
<brousch> Not much there yet
<jcastro> greg-g: http://www.salon.com/2010/03/16/hipsters_food_stamps_pinched/
<jcastro> some day, you will be caught!
<snap-l> brousch: Awesome.
<rick_h_> booo, already cracked a part on this car
<snap-l> rick_h_: What'd you hit?
<snap-l> for me, it was a pole in the vet's parking lot
<rick_h_> snap-l: no idea, but there's scratches and a crack in the lower bumper bit with the fog light
<rick_h_> and it's why that light is out
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> Probably a rock
<rick_h_> I did go play in the snow, maybe I hit something while doing that
<snap-l> or a parking bumper
<rick_h_> but I never did anything where I thought "doh, better look at that"
<rick_h_> just the fog light went out and nothing looks wrong from the front so figured it was new-car-itus
<rick_h_> but I didnt' crawl under it
<rick_h_> so didn't see the cracked housing
<snap-l> Ouch
<rick_h_> yea, have to order it...come back...ugh
<snap-l> Might have been when you did your ditch glide
<rick_h_> ah, good point!
<rick_h_> I was too spooked to notice I guess
<rick_h_> yea, I'll chalk that up to it and feel better, move along
<snap-l> yeah, been there.
<snap-l> Have found I can't listen to A tout le monde anymore
<snap-l> Good song, just overplayed.
<jcastro> n0p: ping
<jcastro> snap-l: ping
<jcastro> let's talk Orion folks
<rick_h_> jcastro: hadn't heard of that. Very cool
<rick_h_> and come on, a little dropkick while drinking it up can be fun:P
<jcastro> actually I only want to go for the peppers and metallica
<jcastro> dropkick is ok I guess
<jcastro> http://i.imgur.com/3VycPmP.png
<jcastro> actually I hear dillinger escape plan is good
<snap-l> jcastro: Not planning on going.
<snap-l> Only a few bands on the bill that I'd care about
<snap-l> I <3 Dropkick Murphys, and Battlecross is pretty good
<snap-l> I've tried to like Dillinger Escape Plan. Too manic for me
<snap-l> and Peppers and Metallica are not the bands I got into. :)
<snap-l> Went to Summer Sanitarium one year when they had Limp Bread Product, Deftones, and Linkin Park playing prior to Metallica
<snap-l> and we left prior to Metallica taking the stage
<snap-l> (I was there for my sister in law when she was heavily into Linkin Park)
<snap-l> Didn't help that the venue was the Silverdome, and it was hot as fuck in there
<jcastro> I went to that show
<jcastro> I liked linkin park live
<snap-l> Yeah, they definitely put on a great show
<snap-l> you could tell they had some funding
<jcastro> I've seen them after and have some of their blurays -- they're the only band from that era that can actually play
<jcastro> though at the time I pigeon holed them with the other numetal garbage
<jcastro> until I heard them live
<snap-l> Yeah, I wasn't upset over Linkin Park being her favorite band
<snap-l> opened her up to other bands like Coheed and Cambria and so forth
<snap-l> I mean, if Linkin Park is the gateway drug to more prog metal, don't let me stand in the way.
<greg-g> jcastro: moral of the story (didn't read it all): if you shop around, you can eat healthily and well on the cheap. Carrie and I do it, just without the food stamp part.
<snap-l> Yea, I didn't quite understand the outrage
<snap-l> Foodstamps != eat like shit
<greg-g> right, but! it's about HIPSTERS! and we're supposed to make fun of them! Because! You know! I have no sense of humor and need the easy thing sold to me!
<greg-g> With! more! exclamation! marks!
<jcastro> it's all about paleo!
<greg-g> oh, I didn't read that far ;)
<greg-g> two paragraphs, is all, just got the office, need to look like I actually work for a little bit
<greg-g> oop, boss just got here, bye bye!
<greg-g>  ;)
<jcastro> hey greg-g
<jcastro> wikipedia search just landed in the dash
<jcastro> TAKE THAT HIPPIE.
<greg-g> jcastro: how's that adware for dash going?
<greg-g> :P
<jcastro> integrate wikipedia = you are awesome
<jcastro> integrate other things = you suck
<greg-g> more: integrate useful, informative stuff = you're awesome
<greg-g> integrate adware/shopping = you suck ;)
 * greg-g never used the dash, even when using Unity, so...... I don't have a horse in the game, honestly
<greg-g> GNOME DO 4 LIF!
<jcastro> heh
<greg-g> its just a use case I don't experience. I'm usually in my broswer or terminal, so not that far away from (alt-tab) ctrl-k, stuff, enter
<greg-g> of course, I'm also a duck duck go user, so, take anything I say with a EFF-sized grain of salt
<jcastro> there's already DDG support
<jcastro> it's hard to get generic support from a search engine though
<jcastro> most want you to pay
<greg-g> yeah
<jcastro> you know
<jcastro> I want to say that I want to support the whole intent for this weev guy
<jcastro> but really, the way he comes off
<jcastro> I kind of don't care that he goes to jail
<greg-g> weev?
 * greg-g googles
<greg-g> oh, right
 * greg-g doesn't know much about it
<greg-g> the WP article on him looks informative, though
<jcastro> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ahkgc/i_am_weev_i_may_be_going_to_prison_under_the/
<jcastro> so he did an AMA
<jcastro> and ends up, people don't like the guy
<jcastro> so I think it backfired, lol
<jcastro> he's the guy that make Kathy Sierra quit the internet
<greg-g> who?
<greg-g> remember, I have a 15 month old, I don't participate in pop culture anymore
<jcastro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Sierra
<jcastro> man come on
<jcastro> this is all freedom internet hipster stuff
<jcastro> I go to _you_ for these sorts of things!
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'm with you. I probably heard about it at the time but I try hard to keep away from net-based drama
<rick_h_> ouch, the pycon ban-hammer in effect http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycons-response-to-inapropriate.html
<jcastro> lol
<rick_h_> oh oh oh http://r.bmark.us/u/4e689733326703 /me does the clear data from google app framework/check for udpates dance over and over
<jcastro> rick_h_: I want to ping hazmat and be like "so, you coming home early?"
<greg-g> rick_h_: but duuuuude, this is California. He has a card for that!
<rick_h_> greg-g: lol
<rick_h_> greg-g: I wonder if they checked :)
<rick_h_> wonder if his card transfers to canada for 2014/15
<greg-g> I'm actually wondering if that was the issue, it sounds like jcastro might know what happened/who it was?
<greg-g> but, even if he has a card, he can't smoke wherever he wants. That was a common message on Caltrain: "Also, I don't care if you have a special card, there is no smoking, of any kind, on Caltrain."
<rick_h_> so I know from people that were reporting on twitter at the time that someone was smoking up something that *could* be called medical...but probably wasn't
<rick_h_> yea, it's that exactly
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> so at the TiP Bof someone lit up
<greg-g> stupid
<rick_h_> and some people were cranky about it and left
<greg-g> go outside
<rick_h_> so it's in the hotel convention center, in a room, etc
<greg-g> yeah, dumb, he must've been high
<greg-g> ;)
<snap-l> I think I remember weev on the Full Disclosure list
<snap-l> he was a jackass
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> just seemed like the kind of person who would set you on fire just to watch your reaction
<snap-l> and then get offended when you got upset.
 * rick_h_ wonders...fire you say eh?
<snap-l> har har
<rick_h_> jcastro: did you end up getting a new chair recently? Or am I mis-remembering
<snap-l> I know I got the Gaim balance ball chair
<snap-l> don't remember jcastro mentioning chair news
<rick_h_> hmm, thought someone was looking between areon and something else lately
 * greg-g hopes to get rid of his work chair soon, requested a standing desk conversion
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> got my wife to use my standing desk setup last night for the first time
<rick_h_> compatible laptops/dock ftw
<snap-l> greg-g: remember to start slowly.
<snap-l> It takes practice to sit all day
<snap-l> take it from a professional
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, there are open couches/hammock to use when I'm tired
<snap-l> greg-g: was going for the opposite. ;)
 * greg-g is still sick and doesn't get it
<snap-l> greg-g: That you are probalby more fit than most, and could handle a standing desk with no problem
<snap-l> as opposed to folks like myself who let gravity do the work
<greg-g> oh, gotcha
<greg-g> well, given my current physical wellness (basically, really bad posture, really bad) I'm probably going to have a hard time at it
<snap-l> btw: new OMC is up.
<snap-l> Episode 68
<snap-l> Going to have to do something special for 100. :)
<snap-l> Though I'm thrilled as punch that I was able to use an Acumen Nation song in this episode
<snap-l> Also, if someone can find the edit in the episode (there's one in there) I'll send you a $10 amazon gift card.
<snap-l> Tell me by the end of the day.
<snap-l> Good luck. :)
<snap-l> So, Ubuntu is not moving to rolling releases
<snap-l> and halving the support for non LTS releases to 9 months
<brousch> Sounds good to me
<brousch> Damnit. why didn't I hear about this earlier? http://detroitgdgdevfest.wordpress.com/
<rick_h_> heh, discuss: http://blog.tenstral.net/2013/03/tanglu.html
<rick_h_> jjesse: brousch ^^ will like that
<rick_h_> hmm, another important 'toread' http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/03/19/ubuntu-technical-board-looks-at-shuttleworths-proposal-for-release-management-methodology/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-technical-board-looks-at-shuttleworths-proposal-for-release-management-methodology
<rick_h_> bah
<brousch> why would i like tangu?
<greg-g> Tangu is the Ubuntu of Debian (wait, isn't Ubuntu the Ubuntu of Debian, well, apparently not anymore, or something) :)
<rick_h_droid> brousch kde by default
<brousch> So it Kubuntu!
<brousch> So is
<brousch> I suppose it gives me somewhere else to flee when Shuttleworth burns down my house
<greg-g> but we all know that is getting thrown under the bus
<greg-g> brousch: but really, Tangu would be Kubuntu, pretty much.
<snap-l> pretty soon we're going to have to invent languages in order to release software
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-20
<rick_h_> well, give the guy some credit http://term.ie/blog/how-to-get-banned-from-pycon/
<snap-l> Yeah, on the one hand I think CoCs for conferences are a bit over the top
<snap-l> I've seen people who won't go to a conference if there isn't an explicit CoC for every one to consent to
<snap-l> but I do see the need for them
<snap-l> But honestly I'm a little tired of this inoffensive nerf culture we're cultivating
<snap-l> It's OK to tell people "I am offended" and begin a dialog
<snap-l> but this zero tolerance shit needs to stop
<snap-l> There is a huge difference between a kid showing up to school with a butter knife, and someone showing up with an arsenal
<rick_h_> yea, I think the key here is the lighting up and potentialy causing harm for the conference as a whole if the hotel/conference center decided to make a stink
<rick_h_> https://github.com/blog/1440-today-s-email-incident interesting even though it's rails
<rick_h_> never know when that update you pull down will change something you don't have a direct test against
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920029533.do
<snap-l> Test-Driven Development with Python
<snap-l> Finally something to replace those packt books
<snap-l> Good morning, gentle folk
<rick_h_> morn
<brousch> Wow, Ubuntu Touch has been ported for both of my Android devices
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> brousch: the QT master?
<brousch> Actually hoping to try Kivy
<snap-l> Took a quick peek at Kivy last night
<snap-l> SOme of the samples looked like they had C code in them hidden in triple quotes
<snap-l> I think that's for CPython?
<brousch> It uses Cython
<brousch> I haven't noticed any difference from regular Python yet
<snap-l> Sorry, Cython
<brousch> Ug, time to run BS errands
<brousch> snap-l: http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/13/03/20/1629252/va-scraps-napalm-death-gig-for-fear-decibel-levels-will-damage-sculptures
<rick_h_> I give up...I can't do people. I'm just going to go hack on my own OSS and give up trying to work with anyone.
<greg-g> rick_h_: that's so Canonical of you ;P
<rick_h_> greg-g: hah! I've been trained
<greg-g> sorry, couldn't resist, it was just there, in my head, flashing with big neon lights
<brousch> Ohmy, get out the skin grafts because rick_h_ just got buuuuuurned
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> yep, got me good
<brousch> Who pissed you off now?
<jcastro> RICK
<jcastro> hi2u
<rick_h_> brousch: not pissed off, just working with people is hard
<rick_h_> you think you understand what you say, they read it differently, don't know what you know. End up wasting days of time/energy
<rick_h_> jcastro: howdy
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> much easier to just write it all :P
<rick_h_> or as greg-g calls it...go "Canonical"
<jcastro> rick_h_: when confused just G+ me
<jcastro> they're just translating what I am saying anyway
<rick_h_> jcastro: naw, this is in my own stuff. Guy I'm working with wasted two days writing what ended up being 10lines of code because he didn't understand the 'big picture'
<jcastro> oh
<jcastro> well in that case
<rick_h_> and all along I thguoht I was making it easy for him and keeping him from needing the 'big picture'
<jcastro> get to work. :p
<rick_h_> hah!
<rick_h_> yep
<jcastro> so I got the browser up on the N7
<jcastro> with the juju survey for ODS
<jcastro> it looks pretty badass
<rick_h_> survey?
<jcastro> yeah I am running surveys via booth duty during ODS
<jcastro> on the tablet
<rick_h_> ah very cool
<snap-l> ODS?
<greg-g> OpenStack Developer Summit
<snap-l> Thank you.
<greg-g> usually in conjunction with UDS, but, ya know ;)
<snap-l> Some of us don't get to go galavanting to conferences. :)
<greg-g> I don't anymore, only one or two trips a year for me, probably
<snap-l> I do all of my conferences in Google Hangout now. Hangouts are cool.
<greg-g> CC had me flying about once a month on average (July was insane, I was gone for literally 3/4ths of the month)
<greg-g> snap-l: that's what some people say
<jcastro> I am flying more recently than usual
<jcastro> though tbh, google hangouts really is awesome for doing remote work
<rick_h_> yea, but every time I sprint I get wondering. Always seems like so much gets done and crap gets fixed asap vs next stand up/two days later
<brousch> greg-g: There aren't Wikipedia drink-ups or edit-a-thons every week around the world?
<greg-g> brousch: every other
<greg-g> we're a lazy bunch. I mean, writing an encyclopedia is just too easy
<greg-g> also, being one of the few truly community-run projects, you know what that means, we never get anything done
<greg-g> </sarcasm-troll>
<snap-l> http://www.theonion.com/articles/find-the-thing-youre-most-passionate-about-then-do,31742/
<brousch> Big PyCon jokes kerfluffle http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.403861-Adria-Richards-Gets-Two-People-Fired-Over-Dongle-Joke-At-Tech-Conference
<greg-g> All that matters is that once you know what you want to do, you dive in a full 10 percent and spend the other 90 torturing yourself because you know damn well that itâs far too late to make a drastic career change, and that youâre stuck on this mind-numbing path for the rest of your life.
<snap-l> AMen
<snap-l> Now if you'll excuse me... ;)
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/podcasts/open-metalcast/open-metalcast-episode-68-tributes-and-compilations
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> jcastro: know anyone in the ruby community that's PPA knowledgeable? https://twitter.com/alex_gaynor/status/314456862349205507
<jcastro> ack
<rick_h_> jcastro: https://github.com/topazproject/topaz is what he's talking about in particular.
<jcastro> I saw that
<jcastro> insane!
<rick_h_> alex is crazy like that. but hey, work on pypy got them $10k from PSF. Maybe some ruby-ists will like this.
<brousch> I got no response from my local Rubists when I mentioned it a while ago
<snap-l> "I can't iumagine too many Rubyists who would be pleased that Python is running their language
<snap-l> JVM is one thing
<brousch> I have heard a lot of praise for JRuby
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Nfk1-XMASrk that's sweet. RasberryPi hacking awesomeness
<brousch> More RPi hacking http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVM09gaX6pQ
<derekv> re
<snap-l> rehi
<snap-l> wb
<derekv> ty
<greg-g> ab
<derekv> horrible stomach flu yesterday
<derekv> still recovering
<jcastro> hey rick_h_
<jcastro> if you have a minute I could use a G+ with ya
<snap-l> derekv: I tak it you're not going to CHC tonight
<rick_h_> jcastro: sure thing
<derekv> I kindof want to go
<snap-l> Dude, if you're sick, please stay home
<derekv> On the chance that whatever I have/had is contagious
<derekv> nobody wants what I had
<derekv> trust me
<derekv> wouldn't wish it on anyone
<brousch> Damnit. An update seems to have borked my wireless
<brousch> What good is sitting on LTS if stuff still breaks?
<greg-g> hah, Debian loves you ;)
<rick_h_> jcastro: https://plus.google.com/photos/112719704219936118281/albums/5377728377623155505?banner=pwa
<jcastro> brousch: which card? can you be specific?
<derekv> i might do some sort of hackothon on the android
<derekv> probably android bookie
<rick_h_> woot
<derekv> i don't know if that's something that would appeal to anyone else
<rick_h_> I've got to try to do some extension work myself.
<brousch1> geekers
<derekv> i need to do something with fragments
<brousch1> Ah, thinking of trying them in the Bookie Android app?
<brousch1> At GRmobileDev we had a talk on fragments from the author of an O'Reilly Android book. They sounded useful but complicated
<derekv> I don't think the android bookie app really calls for it given the current feature set
<derekv> certainly there are some lower hanging fruit
<derekv> but i'd like to be familier with them
<derekv> now viewing: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Android-Design
<brousch1> I have the video of the talk, but it's like 5GB
<derekv> brousch1: who was it?
<rick_h_> derekv: next time we hit up CHC we can chat if you're interested. I'm working on design/mockup for a reader view that shows the list on the left and opens up the readable content and such on the right.
<rick_h_> derekv: we can work out a design friendly for android tablet and web
<rick_h_> and might be interesting to tinker with tablet custom UX and such
<brousch1> derekv: Blake Meike author of http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920023005.do
<jcastro> snap-l: ok, I've moved DKM to my cool column
<jcastro> http://gawker.com/5991403/dropkick-murphys-singer-kicks-the-crap-out-of-skinhead-doing-nazi-salute-on-stage-during-st-patricks-day-concert
<Blazeix> derekv: did you see the android thing happening this weekend downtown?
<Blazeix> lemme see if i can find a link
<derekv> Is something else happeneing downtown this weekend?
<greg-g> I love #wikimedia-staff, we're talking about how some time ago, Alpine (the Pine mail derivative) was non-free for a while
<Blazeix> derekv: http://www.detroitgdgdevfest.com
<Blazeix> oh, um i should keep up with the backlog...
<derekv> Blazeix: how did i even not know about this
<derekv> i like how my current boss is even giving a talk at it
<derekv> same talk he's been giving around
<derekv> ok signed up
<derekv> so much has been going on
<derekv> greg-g: elm
<snap-l> jcastro: Their music is the sound of bar brawls
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-21
<rick_h_> howdy CHC folks
<rick_h_> snap-l: are the new couple there?
<rick_h_> snap-l: if so make sure they hear about pycamp at pyohio for a cool python boot camp http://trizpug.org/boot-camp/pyohio13/pyohio13-event
<mathomastech> rick_h_: Hey rick. The new peeps aren't here yet. If they show up, Ill definitely pass it on.
<rick_h_> mathomastech: thanks!
<rick_h_> mathomastech: you guys get the room ok?
<mathomastech> rick_h_: Today was one of the days that it was already booked. We swiped some tables in the dining area.
<rick_h_> ah gotcha :(
<snap-l> Yeah, we're out in the open
<mathomastech> Blazeix: How was the meetup?
<mathomastech> If anyone is available tomorrow night, there is a python developer meetup in Southfield. I am planning on going
<mathomastech> http://www.meetup.com/Michigan-Python-Development-Group/events/106750512/
<snap-l> So, anyone using Google Keep?
<snap-l> THink I'm going to use it for some journaling
<snap-l> at least to get ideas out of my head so I can process them later
<snap-l> no worse than the other stuff I've been doing for not journaling
<rick_h_>  nope, I've gone field notes for most stuff currently and not logged into evernote for years so no desire to get into it
<brousch> I use Evernote
<brousch> It is open all day every day in a browser app
<snap-l> rick_h_: field notes?
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/8jWU0
<rick_h_> in my back pocket :)
<snap-l> That's what I thought
<snap-l> Yeah, I carry around a moleskine at work
<snap-l> haven't moved my old small moleskine to ubiquitous capture yet.
<rick_h_> it was cool when I was doing the car shopping and such
<rick_h_> started just keeping it in my pocket and handy to have a pen on you
 * brousch holds his nose
<brousch> Barbaric!
<brousch> https://bitbucket.org/r1chardj0n3s/pypi-pep/src/fde8529df03c/PEP-PIP-DRAFT.txt?at=default
<brousch> Sounds good to me
<snap-l> Honestly, pip should be in the standard library
<snap-l> That's probably heresy, but frankly pip won
<rick_h_> yea, but it's still broken enough it can't go in the stdlib
<rick_h_> so they want to do some sort of special "it's included but not stdlib..." strangeness
<brousch> I ran into a pip bug while trying to use virtualenv on Android. It would have sucked to wait for a Python update to fix it
<snap-l> Yeah, I agree this is a nice step in the "perfect is the enemy of the good" mentality
<rick_h_> it sets a dangerous precendent thuogh
<brousch> Bootstrap all the modules?
<snap-l> is github having problems with authentication for anyone else?
<rick_h_> just logged out/in here to test it without issue
<snap-l> Hm
<snap-l> I can log in OK, it's asking me to log in though
<snap-l> maybe some session expired
<snap-l> but my atom feed of activity is now giving a 401
<snap-l> Token changed for some reason
<snap-l> veddy stwange.
<brousch> mitm!
<brousch> He's stealing ur codez!
<snap-l> Probably
 * Blazeix looks around shiftily
<Blazeix> can anybody hook me up with mobidevday promotion codez?
<snap-l> I don't think I have any. Let me check
<snap-l> I don't have any. Sorry.
<Blazeix> no problem, i'm going to buy a ticket either way, just hoping to save a few bucks
<brousch> Blazeix: I found this one http://goo.gl/wnTD5
<snap-l> Expired on the 18th
<brousch> No, they extended to 22nd
<brousch> The email with that info says it extended
<Blazeix> i think i have to be a member of that organization. I've been to a few of their meetings, but i don't think i'm officially a member
<brousch> Blazeix: Also http://mobidevdaydetroit.com/volunteer/
<brousch> Event champion?
<Blazeix> ah, nice. i have been pimping this conference at work...
<Blazeix> maybe i can get work to pay for it :) mobile is kind of outside of our typical work...
<brousch> I didn't realize it was so expensive. I'll have to polish my talk some more
<brousch> If I can get a decent resolution projector working with my tablet it would help a lot
<jrwren> good morning
<rick_h_> afternoon...almost
<rick_h_> jrwren: just run away. The whole thing's a disaster at this point. Sorry, but the only person not in some level of 'wrong' at this point is jesse who handled it right at the conf
<snap-l> rick_h_: ++
<jrwren> i just wanted to know what was going on.
<jrwren> i've had no internet at home for a week.
<jrwren> just wanted to be aware of what happened. that is all.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it's just gotten to be really complicated/tangled and at this point I wish I didn't know any of it
<rick_h_> so I'm envious ;)
<jrwren> you weren't there?
<rick_h_> no, I didn't go to pycon this year
<jrwren> ;_;
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> the DDoS happening right now amuzes me.
<jrwren> looks like it was a good pycon
<rick_h_> yea, definitely
<jrwren> i look forward to seeing videos posted.
<rick_h_> I'll be headnig back next year
<rick_h_> lots of videos up already. Watched two and watching guido's async talk now
<jrwren> one of our young guys went, but I don't know him very well.
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sOQLVm0-8Yg
<jrwren> sweet thanks!
<jrwren> ah, guido presented tulip eh?  I'd like to see how he presents it.
<rick_h_> yep
<jrwren> I've been following tulip on python-ideas rather closely
<jrwren> it will be nice to have an async stack all teh way down.
<rick_h_> yea, but SOOOOOO much work to make the stdlib friendly with it
<jrwren> yup
<rick_h_> forget how much code runs all those 'batteries included'
<rick_h_> but good goal to work towards
<jrwren> basically anything network has to be redone bottom up.
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> makes me really appreciate what .net has had from day1
<jrwren> we use pycurl with multicurl to work around the issue today :)
<rick_h_> ugh https://twitter.com/SendGrid/status/314768776577036288
<jrwren> but that sucks.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, job queue/multi-worker ftw for working around some of that
<jrwren> zomg, companies should stop firing people.
<rick_h_> this is what I've mean. Everyone has gone way too far and this has blown up into a huge horrible mess
<rick_h_> and now no one can let anything go long enough to settle down
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> and now, I have strong opinions about a company that I didn't even know existed 1hr ago.
<jjesse> rick_h_ was it you that posted about that new debian release?  can't remember the name
<rick_h_> jjesse: yea, it was something strange. Debian testing into a release with kde by default
<jjesse> thats what i thought
<jjesse> ah found it http://blog.tenstral.net/2013/03/tanglu.html
<rick_h_> yea, there you go
<jjesse> just announced no download
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> but it's something to put on the radar in case mir/kde/ubuntu go down a rocky road as some kde folks worry about
<jjesse> yeah
<brousch> The kerfluffle is growing?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, bigger and bigger
<brousch> Lovely
<snap-l> And this is what happens wieh HR meets PR.
<snap-l> s/wieh/when/
<rick_h_> she said some things she shouldn't have...but not cool to DDoS her company...
<rick_h_> ugh, I'm done with it. time to start blocking it all out...past time
<brousch> Ut oh , it has a name and hashtag
<brousch> #donglegate
<rick_h_> lalalalalalalalalalala
<snap-l> Yeah, unfortunately one company making it a PR problem has caused antoher company to make it a PR problem
<snap-l> and now it's got the hallmarks of us vs them
<snap-l> it even hit some of the RPG circles I follow that are notorious for gender stuff
<greg-g> so, I don't know the whole story, all I know is Adria (yes) stayed on my couch last night because of a death threat and her address being tweeted and posted on 4chan.
<brousch> greg-g: So you're in the thick of it now!
<snap-l> greg-g: That's bullshit
<greg-g> ?
<snap-l> I mean bullshit that she had to hide
<greg-g> right
<brousch> Next you'll be helping her escape to Mexico
<rick_h_> damn...have I mentioned how I hate people? They're so stupid.
<snap-l> Seriously, this should never have left the Pycon fold
<snap-l> Pycon handled it. End of story
<greg-g> yeah, I just heard the first parts of the story during work yesterday (omg, dudes got fired because someone tweeted their photo etc) and then next thing I knew I got an email from my housemate saying "hey, Adria's on our couch"
<rick_h_> yea, it's been one bad decision after another and another and another...
<brousch> Address on 4chan would really suck
<rick_h_> Mr. President, please flip the internet switch. Everyone needs to step away for a while
<snap-l> I think she overreacted, but death threats, harassment, and termination are only effective at polarization and martyrdom
<greg-g> also, I'm dealing with redeploying a broken wikimedia deployment :) Yay release manager!
<rick_h_> greg-g: doh :(
<greg-g> rick_h_: plus one on the internet switch :)
 * snap-l goes to post greg-g's info on reddit
<snap-l> ;)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> fix backported, redeploying to our test wiki now, almost all better and can get started on the things I wanted to do today :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: I feel a new test being added :)
<greg-g> and man, I don't know about the internal infrastructure of other project ya'll have worked on, but my lord, Wikimedia Foundation cluster is something massive
<greg-g> rick_h_: yep, that was the second comment I made on the bug after "if this ain't fixed soon, rollback"
<greg-g> cucumber test already created
<rick_h_> launchpad hit me like that. litterally a dozen+ different daemons/services all working together
<greg-g> yeah, crazy
<rick_h_> layers and layers and layers, configs abound...and that's before you hit src code
<greg-g> yep
<greg-g> the cool part is all of our puppet config is public (except a small number of password/authentication stuff in private repos)
<greg-g> https://noc.wikimedia.org/
<snap-l> greg-g: That's awesome. Shared with our group
<greg-g> yeah, I remeber their announcement a year or so ago that they were switching to public puppet/etc configs, was pretty cool
<greg-g> but, it's just how we roll, ya know? WMF is the only non-profit I know that is truly community-driven (and at this size)
<snap-l> Definitely
<brousch> I just realized that I'm greg-g's boss! My $5/mo to Wikimedia is totally paying off now
<snap-l> brousch: Ask to drive the Wikimobile
<greg-g> brousch: :) yes massir
<rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/u/0/104537541227697934010/posts/AqtHoWFWjkU interesting
<greg-g> great, and our fix is itself broken......
<rick_h_> greg-g: :/ double doh
<greg-g> NO MORE REFACTORING CODE
<rick_h_> lmao
<jrwren> *gasp*
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> correction: NO MORE REFACTORING CODE UNLESS YOU HAVE TEST COVERAGE
<jrwren> oh nice. 39:35 - guido shots out to C# :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, some times you just have to circle the wagons and stop the poo-flinging-patches
<greg-g> yeah, we're going to sit still and think for a bit before moving forward :)
<jcastro> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324103504578372760833495582.html?mod=business_newsreel
<jcastro> proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy
<jrwren> beer?
<jcastro> no
<jcastro> the link!
<jrwren> i like beer proof better.
<jcastro> do you live here yet?
<jrwren> oracle down 8% on bad sales is a bonus.
<jcastro> here close to me I mean?
<jrwren> I DO!
<jcastro> \o/
<jrwren> I live at Plymouth Rd.
<jrwren> just down the highway.
<jrwren> flav's house is right between us, lets crash his place :)
<jcastro> I AGREE.
<jcastro> n0p_: ^
<jrwren> hahaha http://www.pointerpointer.com/
<rick_h_> dammit, I leave for a ltitle bit and now ars and TC are into the pycon crap?
<rick_h_> jcastro: I was laughing at that this morning. Saw they blamed 'the sales channel' lol
<rick_h_> 'damn sales people didn't bend enough arms to get us the contracts we expect!'
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://r.bmark.us/u/382cda6b093960 spamhaus in the news (well actually more cloudflare)
<greg-g> how can I get rid of this stupid "you should restart" message from Software Updater? Also, I'm going to turn off the auto-check-for-new-updates
<greg-g> the only button on it is "restart"
<widox> greg-g: click it?
<greg-g> widox: oh! Lemme try tha....
<widox> :D
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'm almost afraid to click
<snap-l> nice write-up
<snap-l> This is why I subscribe to Ars.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-22
<rick_h_> bah, sorry the tablet spammed the channel
<snap-l> It did?
<rick_h_> heh, looks like disconnect/reconnect spam
<snap-l> Oh, I have that on ignore
<rick_h_> yea, then nvm :P
<rick_h_> TGIF everyone!
<snap-l> And not too soon
<snap-l> Did we sort out what the new hotness was for readers?
<snap-l> JoDee is not terribly happy with oldreader
<rick_h_> no, I'm sticking with google reader until June and then I'll reevaluate
<rick_h_> *hopefully* there will be some marked improvement over the next two months to rejudge by
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm sticking with r2e for now
<snap-l> (rss2email)
<snap-l> but it's suboptimal
<snap-l> http://tapastic.com/episode/2828
<snap-l> Also, IE needs to find a fire, stat
<snap-l> and promptly perish in it
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> I think it's getting _colder_
<jrwren> i know!
<jrwren> so cold yesterday.
<rick_h_> I like the cold and all, but I'm done with 20s. From now on it needs to be 35 or higher full time.
<rick_h_> not like I'm asking for a ton
<jrwren> i like near average temperatures, year round. too much deviation angers me.
<jrwren> this is awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRbY3TMUcgQ
<rick_h_> brousch: get your wallet out http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andrewgodwin/schema-migrations-for-django
<brousch> I haven't had trouble with south, but I haven't used it much
<brousch> My setup is very simple
<snap-l> jrwren: Heh
<jrwren> i laughed so hard.
<brousch> Anyone else notice a really slow pypi?
<rick_h_> nope, I use a local one :P
<rick_h_> doh he left
<jrwren> how do you mirror pypi?
<rick_h_> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pep381client
<jrwren> ty
<snap-l> I don't know why we don't treat IE like the pariah of the internet that it is
<rick_h_> yay! 4.2.2 on my phone
<jrwren> IE9 and 10 are good.
<rick_h_> I guess it's better than non-nexus but not sure I'll be getting a verizon nexus again
<jrwren> from what I hear, wtf do I know, I don't use them.
<snap-l> Ie 8 is rendering something like crap
<rick_h_> 9 no...10...maybe but dev tools still suck
<rick_h_> we're working with the juju-gui on IE10 and I still say it sucks/hate it. but at least we can get it to work
<jrwren> i heard there are some recent patches in openstack web ui that are IE only.
<rick_h_> yea, still have to work around IE even with 10
<jrwren> bummer.
<jrwren> i'm so glad I don't target teh web :)
<snap-l> Figured out IE's quirk mode vs strict mode
<snap-l> (yes, I'm new here)
<snap-l> Also listening to Joe Startiani's Surfing With the Alien
<snap-l> still holds up
<jjesse> still a big fan of Joe Satriani
<snap-l> Yeah, he puts out the epitome of the guitar-god albums
<snap-l> Vai puts out great solo albums as well
<snap-l> Funny enough, I don't have the really popular one of Vai's "Passion and Warfare"
<snap-l> likely because I don't like that much vocals in my instrumental albums. :)
<snap-l> Ah, also Sex and Religion
<snap-l> I had that one for a while, It hink I sold it back
<snap-l> or it's lost
<snap-l> http://photobombingjesus.com/
<greg-g> snap-l: unsatisfied, too few submissions
<greg-g> C-
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> rick_h_: New CAH expansion
<snap-l> ordering two
<rick_h_droid> already ordered
<rick_h_droid> :)
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> ordered one then
<greg-g> you all are crazy
<snap-l> greg-g: Yes
<snap-l> and?
<greg-g> that's it
<snap-l> http://boardgamegeek.com/user/craigm
<greg-g> don't even have to open the URL
<greg-g> :)
<jjesse> what is CAH?
<snap-l> Cards Against Humanity
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-23
<snap-l> evening
<rick_h_droid> howdy
<snap-l> Have I mentioned how much I hate Windows
<Blazeix> no, do tell
<snap-l> Baen books has spoiled me
<snap-l> they had this CD promotion where you could get a bunch of eBooks with some of their hardcover books
<snap-l> http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/
<snap-l> What's awesome is some of the ebooks they have they no longer sell on their site
<snap-l> I've been perusing the B&N in Rochester and picking up paperbacks of the more interesting Baen books
<snap-l> and it's like getting the eBook version for free
<snap-l> Which makes me happy
<snap-l> and keeps me wanting to get their books.
<snap-l> etc.
<brousch> rick_h_: I didn't notice that the Django schema migration kickstarter is by the South author
<brousch> Heh, it's already almost double his highest stretch goal
<brousch> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andrewgodwin/schema-migrations-for-django
<snap-l> Nice
<snap-l> OK, now can we have federated applications. APparently Ubuntu Touch isn't getting a Twitter app
<snap-l> Watching students at SCience Olympiad makes me very glad I'm no longer in high school
<snap-l> though I'm currently standing at a counter, and thinking I might want to try a standing desk. :)
<snap-l> THis is quite nice.
<brousch> Didn't twitter tell all applications to fuck off?
<snap-l> Pretty much
<snap-l> BUt unless Twitter decides to port to the Ubuntu Touch, there will be no twitter app for it
<snap-l> Honestly, it's pretty short sghted.
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, south needs some love.
<oiaylem> hey there
<greg-g> hi there
<oiaylem> how are you greg
<greg-g> I'm alright, doing the saturday chores thing
<greg-g> so, going afk for a while, you're welcome to hang around, people come and go on a saturday
<oiaylem> thanks
<oiaylem> have a good run
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-24
<derekv> so my problem is, i'm always trying to learn just to learn, but apart from that i'm too add and don't ever land anywhere long enough to stick
<derekv> as far as a project
<derekv> or a cause
<derekv> my tech and development skills need some "cause"
<derekv> outside of work
<derekv> there's a whole bunch of stuff i could do probably.  just unable to fix on one thing.
<snap-l> derekv: I find I have too many interests
<snap-l> and I never manage to get beyond the beginning phases before I want to do something else.
<derekv> yea
<derekv> anyone go to the google thing?
<derekv> i paid for it
<derekv> but that was before i realized what i had was norovirus
<derekv> pretty sure nobody there wants the norovirus
<derekv> rick_h_, did you do any treatment / work on the door used for you desk
<tony-smlr> SMLR is  live Video http://www.youtube.com/embed/Wn_98hpPQYA - - Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<rick_h_> derekv: yea, I put a few coats of poly on it
<brousch> Oh wonderful. You can see my workplace on the right of this photo http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kent_county/crash-knocks-out-power-in-wyoming
<derekv> that isn't much work to save a lot of money
<derekv> might have to use the easy button on this one
<snap-l> Afternoon
<derekv> intel 1gb pci card in my fileserver stopped being recognized
<derekv> i think that its a bad card
<derekv> whoa
<derekv> i guess they have 4tb drives now
<derekv> STOP THE TRAIN =]
<snap-l> Afternoon
<snap-l> derekv: Yeah, they keep trying to bend the laws of physics so you can store all that pr0n
<snap-l> You're welcome.
<derekv> i'm slightly interested in used server board that can take ecc, 64b, and/or a chasis
<derekv> if anyone knows of one
<derekv> one thing i always really liked about AMD
<derekv> not a bad card
<derekv> and now it won't post
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<derekv> correction, we have received some new information
<derekv> it seems that it is a bad card
<derekv> removed the card, now it posts =]
<derekv> so maybe i should have removed the card when trying a different card
<derekv> to the microcenter!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-17
<rick_h_> applications for GSoC starting to roll in. Man this is going to be so hard to pick 2
<mrgoodcat> lol did you see Hubert?
<mrgoodcat> little late to the party
<mrgoodcat> i almost feel bad
<mrgoodcat> .func
<bookiebot> Searches most recent copy of bookie repo for function definitions; Update repo with .pull; Syntax: .func <regex>
<mrgoodcat> .help func
<bookiebot> Searches most recent copy of bookie repo for function definitions; Update repo with .pull; Syntax: .func <regex>
<mrgoodcat> .help list
<bookiebot> no docs for command
<mrgoodcat> .help
<bookiebot> echo func help list pull relist sleep
<mrgoodcat> .help asdf
<bookiebot> no such command
<cmaloney> jcastro: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/15/windows_desktop_and_laptop_market_share_dips_below_90_per_cent
<cmaloney> About the only thing I got wrong in our bet was the timeframe. ;)
<cmaloney> That and not counting iOS. :)
<mrgoodcat> below 90%
<mrgoodcat> i like how below 90% is considered a huge problem
<cmaloney> Our bet was Mac marketshare at 10%
<mrgoodcat> everyone else considers that a monopoly
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> ugh
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> and +1 ugh, but got to sleep in a bit so yay
<brousch> Just a bit?
<cmaloney> Yeh, acc. to the fitbit I got 5h30m sleep
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: how was GR?
<brousch> GR is awesome with every metric you choose
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: good stuff. Parking was meh but we had a good day
<mrgoodcat> brousch: are you from gr?
<brousch> West MI in general
<mrgoodcat> i'll agree with you all day on that
<brousch> rick_h_: I've never seen that parking ramp full except during ArtPrize and museum new exhibit openings. It was really odd for it to be so busy on the 3rd weekend
<mrgoodcat> i love traverse city, kalamazoo, and grand rapids
<rick_h_> woot! pocket casts now with chromecast support
<rick_h_> <3 the world we live in
<mrgoodcat> chromecast ias been really bad to me
<rick_h_> why so? The only issue I find is that the chrome extention has to be disabled/enabled every so often as it loses the connection to the chromecast
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Did it kill your good cat?
<mrgoodcat> i had a really hard time with initial setup
<mrgoodcat> and occasionally it will lose connection to my wifi
<brousch> It has worked very well for me
<mrgoodcat> the chromecast extension is total garbage
<brousch> But i use it almost exclusively from Android
<mrgoodcat> and the sound cuts out occasionally
<mrgoodcat> i use it exclusively from android and chrome os
<mrgoodcat> you would think it would work the best
<mrgoodcat> it just feels like a beta product
<brousch> Also I basically just use netflix and youtube
<mrgoodcat> youtube is the worst for sound cut out
<mrgoodcat> i use it for netflix, youtube, and google play movies
<brousch> I've had no sound problems
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: How far away from your wifi is the Chromecast?
<brousch> Played 2 different 1.5 hour long youtube videos yesterday
<mrgoodcat> about 20 feet
<mrgoodcat> accross the same room
<mrgoodcat> line of sight
<brousch> N?
<mrgoodcat> yup
<mrgoodcat> i even switched routers
<mrgoodcat> i have a netgear r6300 right now
<mrgoodcat> but i had a belkin before
<brousch> does it go through the TV to get to the router?
<mrgoodcat> sort of but not really. its on an angle
<mrgoodcat> about 45 degrees
<cmaloney> Trying duplicity again for local backup.
<cmaloney> I think the biggest problem I have is trying to backup 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag.
<cmaloney> But did decide to turn off journaling on the backup drive as I think it was rather unnecessary.
<mrgoodcat> duplicity is actually really good
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_ has the patience of a saint
<mrgoodcat> no way i could be a GSoC mentor
<mrgoodcat> not that i believe anyone would actually want me to mentor them
<mrgoodcat> meanwhile on the set of Ocean's fourteen http://bit.ly/1md2O9A
<jrwren> rick_h_ is a manager. You can call him Mister Manager.
<rick_h_> huh? I'd not recommend it :P
<cmaloney> my only problem with Duplicity is it takes forever to complete
<rick_h_> cmaloney: my first sync to my NAS took 4 days
<rick_h_> it's what it takes to start a backup
<cmaloney> rdiff-backup is much quicker
<cmaloney> but it also tends to lunch itself if the dest volume fills up
<greg-g> obnam!
<cmaloney> which seems to happen to me if I use VBox. The image files change enough to make things not want to work right
<cmaloney> greg-g: obnam is fine save for a few problems:
<cmaloney> 1) I've never seen it finish.
<cmaloney> 2) See above.
<greg-g> cmaloney: finishes for me
<greg-g> cmaloney: did you follow the guide and start with a subset?
<greg-g> obnam backup $HOME/somesubdir
<cmaloney> greg-g: I had one version when I tried it that was completely borked.
<cmaloney> No, I tried the whole hog
 * greg-g shrugs
<greg-g> works great for me
<cmaloney> It was before 1.0 released.
<greg-g> a incremental now takes about 10 minutes
<greg-g> speed isn't it's strong point, though
<cmaloney> Right. I need something that's a little quicker than Obnam
<cmaloney> also space efficient
<greg-g> obnam does dedup
<cmaloney> also: could be conflating obnam with duplicity.
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> I don't know the others too well anymore
<greg-g> other than "rsync"
<greg-g> ;)
<cmaloney> Yeah, rsync is awesome
<cmaloney> I swear if rsync stopped working I think I'd seriously have to consider not jumping off of a bridge.
<greg-g> if you don't want versioning, it Just Works
<cmaloney> I used to use rsnapshot. Liked it a lot but rdiff-backup was more efficient
<greg-g> rick_h_: you made me chuckle out loud in the office: https://twitter.com/shmcmahon/status/445329656602820608
<rick_h_> such great stuff http://docs.python.org/3.4/whatsnew/3.4.html
<rick_h_> greg-g: <3
<jrwren> time to move to python3
<jrwren> rsync isn't backups.
<jrwren> if you delete a file, and rsync runs and deletes the synced files, you cannot recover.
<jrwren> or rather... rsync MIGHT be a backup - if you have a stupid recovery specification
<greg-g> jrwren: that
<rick_h_> well, there's different kinds of backups. Full versioning isn't always necessary and if you don't do -e you can rsync and keep old files around
<rick_h_> but they're the latest version
<rick_h_> and you are backing up multiple locations right?
<greg-g> I've been bitten by the "new version wasn't right" bug
<jrwren> i like to say - there is no such thing as backups. There is only restores.
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, but that's another level of 'data lost'
<cmaloney> jrwren: Deep maaaaaaaan
<greg-g> luckily I could go through git-annex's previous versions
<jrwren> tar -cf - / >/dev/null   # is a backup
<cmaloney> OK, I do not like git annex.
<cmaloney> I tried it for my book collection and hated it
<jrwren> i neither like nor dislike git annex.
<greg-g> cmaloney: which part?
<cmaloney> greg-g: The "files are not real files" part.
<cmaloney> the "syncing takes longer than rsync" part
<greg-g> ah, so, "git-annex direct" will make you happy
<cmaloney> the "holy shit I think I just did something stupid and now I have to restore from backup" part.
<cmaloney> that part.
<greg-g> cmaloney: there's this pattern I see in you: you want speed at the expense of well written software that guards against data loss ;)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Point
<greg-g> but seriously, git-annex direct makes the files real files, but you loss a ton of git-annex's safe guarding
<cmaloney> I think the main part was I didn't understand what it made it tick
<cmaloney> and that ultimately wasn't what I had in mind.
<greg-g> http://git-annex.branchable.com/direct_mode/
<cmaloney> Yeah, familiar with it
<cmaloney> but what I really wanted (in this case) was a way to sync my books to my laptop
<greg-g> yeah, I've gotten to the point where I know how it works (mostly, not all) and thus I grok it, and when grok something, you love something ;)
<cmaloney> and rsync does that nicely
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS516maqfAg woot looks like it's up
<greg-g> w00t!
<rick_h_> it's a talk I should try to give again. I could use a few iterations on it.
 * greg-g is listening
<mrgoodcat> lol i love the description
<mrgoodcat> "he's been a team lead for about 10 minutes"
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> talk the talk with a giant salt lick
<mrgoodcat> and a shot of tequila
<greg-g> rick_h_: when are your daily standups? time of day? where does your team live?
<rick_h_> greg-g: so ours is 11am est. We have folks in italy, EDT, and mountain time in CO and Canada
<rick_h_> greg-g: so 9am for the western folks, after lunch for guy in italy
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> we have a senior dev in Australia
<greg-g> kinda fucks everything over
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, we've got a design guy in AU. So I'll meet with him at night as needed and we tend to have more of a weekly catchup with him
<rick_h_> greg-g: but we track his work on the board
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> rick_h_: slides with links to your boards? (sorry for interrupting, but you're a manager now, you HAVE to multitask)
<greg-g> :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: the big work board isn't publicly avail
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'd be happy to do a hangout/screenshare if you want a walk through/questions
<rick_h_> but it's behind a login
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> understandable
<rick_h_> https://trello.com/b/jXSwmBMC/bookie
<rick_h_> and shared the slides doc with you
<greg-g> ty sir!
<greg-g> interesting!
<greg-g> the requirements on code review based on diff size
<greg-g> we don't have such crazy rules like that
<rick_h_> it helps break code down and prevent massive diffs that talk days to review
<rick_h_> and I think is a really really good thing
<greg-g> yeah, I like it
<rick_h_> helps break that 3 day card to two 1 day tasks
<greg-g> we don't have too much of a problem with that, but it does happen
<greg-g> we have a huge rewrite of one of our extensions just sitting there because, well, it's a rewrite, all at once
<rick_h_> yea, sometimes we have to do more work to do things behind feature flags and such but it makes things not get hung up for so long and impossible to merge
<rick_h_> trade wasted time in making things landable as you go vs removing that cruft once it all does land
<greg-g> totally
<greg-g> people need to get more comfortable with feature flags
<rick_h_> <3
<greg-g> rick_h_: does whatever ya'll use for code reviews enforce that, or is it team enforced?
<rick_h_> we've got a few good lessons on using those. Working in the negative case vs the positive for 'is the flag on' to aid cleaning up a closed flag
<rick_h_> greg-g: team enforced
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> once in a while we let one go because of the nature of the work
<greg-g> yeah
<rick_h_> or things like "mechanical change, moved x to y"
<greg-g> a tool enforced thing would need an override feature
<greg-g> yeah
<rick_h_> but nice because you need break the work from mechanical vs actual changes in a big branch
<greg-g> huh, yeah
<jrwren> whoa! pep442 finally makes python GC not crazy! :)
<cmaloney> I heard one anecdote from a developer that when he worked at $COMPANY they had an onerous process for landing program changes into production
<cmaloney> so the developers learned to make all of their code work via the database instead.
<cmaloney> because that was less controlled than the codebase
<greg-g> brings a whole new meaning to "data is code, code is data"
<rick_h_> yea db needs the same process
<cmaloney> Their code essentially became a boot-loader for code in the database
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> I'd rather the lesson be that you can get to the point where your process is more important than actually getthing things done.
<cmaloney> (but yeah, your database should also have some rigor to it)
<greg-g> oh good: http://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=status
<rick_h_> well the trouble is that is takes a lot of time to get the process right
<greg-g> also, yay depending on a service without an SLA
<rick_h_> until you've got the smooth running process changes tend to be big and infrequent which just makes them harder
<rick_h_> but until you get it smooth you won't get small frequent changes that are more ideal
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea :/
<rick_h_> we'll see if I'll be doing my hangout interviews this afternoon
<greg-g> guess who has a Ops-wide team meeting over hangouts soon?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Agreed, but developers tend to see processes that are too strict as damage and route around it.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, understand
<cmaloney> ++ for creative solutions, but their code suffered as a result.
<cmaloney> We saw that with FieldConnect and their backward waterfall process.
<cmaloney> It was a challenge to get anything promoted to production so it felt like a major accomplishment to land any change.
<rick_h_> right, the goal of any process should be making it faster and easier to land things safely
<cmaloney> much like figuring out the controls to an arcade game.
<cmaloney> It should be this simple: http://www.tokensonly.com/images/events/morgan-beckman/images/morgan-b-gameroom-40.JPG
<cmaloney> (That's Badlands, a laser disc game that had one single button).
<cmaloney> (Note: The game was terrible).
<cmaloney> http://www.emuparadise.me/MAME/cabinets/thayers.png <- This was our launch process.
<cmaloney> Also: Thayer's Quest was interesting, but not terribly friendly to newcomers.
<greg-g> "Since GateKeeper is essentially a runtime business rules engine, it was heavily abused to effectively execute code living in a database. Avoid this through simpler design or a policy of sanity."
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> from https://secure.phabricator.com/book/phabflavor/article/recommendations_on_branching/
<rick_h_> :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: re: Techcrunch article on harassment: I take most things from TechCrunch with a grain of skepticism.
<cmaloney> But even if 70% of what is in that article pans out, that's reprehensible.
<cmaloney> (was re: http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/15/julie-ann-horvath-describes-sexism-and-intimidation-behind-her-github-exit/)
<mrgoodcat> maybe i should ad a rickstatus command to bookiebot lol
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: :P
<rick_h_> seems that way "eyeballs averted don't type out 10 things"
<mrgoodcat> i was considering making it so if a new person joined that the bot had never seen before it would greet him with some sort of message linking to the docs and such
<mrgoodcat> maybe after i finish the switch to sqlalchemy
<cmaloney> nah, just have it display that every 5 minutes. ;)
<jrwren> cmaloney: reprehensible!
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> cron job
<mrgoodcat> i'm rewriting my go bot as well
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: https://bmark.us/craig/redirect/7f0f9f24bb793f
<cmaloney> (that's what I think of whenever I hear 'go bot' ;)
<mrgoodcat> interesting idea... maybe i should write a bot in go to play go
<mrgoodcat> i've made a few sudoku solvers
<rick_h_> jrwren: w...t...f? 3252 queries?
<mrgoodcat> queries on what?
<mrgoodcat> bmark?
<rick_h_> twitter
<jrwren> which only takes 7s, which i'm totally OK with.
<rick_h_> no, we don't do that anywhere
<greg-g> cmaloney: yeah, github has a culture problem. always had. They just now (Jan '14) hired a head of HR.  That shows a real problem.
<mrgoodcat> i'm confused
<rick_h_> jrwren: ugh, any web thing taking 7s needs to be shot unless it's a one off admin only view
<jrwren> assume its not web.
<rick_h_> still, that'll drop your job
<rick_h_> jaw
<rick_h_> bah
<rick_h_> I'm done for today, wtf
<greg-g> rick_h_: don't load the Barack Obama article on WP (slow because of how well cited it is)
<rick_h_> it's 4:20?!
<jrwren> still, the 70s total is what I find unacceptable.
<rick_h_> holy crap, /me missed the last 2 hours
<jrwren> rick_h_: spark it up!
<cmaloney> OK, did anyone follow anything that rick_h_ and jrwren said since 4:20? :)
<mrgoodcat> nope
<rick_h_> context https://twitter.com/JayRWren/status/445654479648460800
<rick_h_> I'm a little bit less crazy than I seem...usually
<cmaloney> What the fuck?
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: why are you making so many queries on one webview?
<cmaloney> What the hell are you loading?
<mrgoodcat> whelp, that's the end of my workday
<cmaloney> Yeah, same here.
<cmaloney> ttyl!
<cmaloney> new OMC tonight with any luck.
<greg-g> this thread makes me sad: https://twitter.com/faidonl/status/424108562579591168
<greg-g> (Faidon is an Ops engineer at WMF, also a DD (paravoid))
<rick_h_> greg-g: :(
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> So basically what Varnish just did was give everyone a reason to not use Varnish.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-18
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/03/github-puts-founder-on-leave-kicks-wife-out-of-office-after-harassment-claim/
<rick_h_> cmaloney: started to review apps. Appreciate your thoughts at CHC if you get time before then to peek at them.
<rick_h_> this is going to be so tough. There's 4 or 5 people I really want to support.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Sure thing
<rick_h_> cmaloney: cool thanks
<rick_h_> cmaloney: I know at least a couple more are on the way. Wheee
<cmaloney> Though my thought is the one that couldn't be bothered to fill out anything is pretty much a non-starter.
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :) well it says WIP at the top
<rick_h_> they're allowed to submit and work on it over time
<cmaloney> The whole thing is a WIP. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, noticed that
<cmaloney> "findafireanddieinit, check out our new terms of service and how we're integrating with LinkedIn"
<cmaloney> (from Slideshare)
<greg-g> cmaloney: is there one of smoser *with* an audio fix? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps-nJKPlitk
 * greg-g hasn't watched yet, but worried
<greg-g> oh, "autofix"
<greg-g> what?
<cmaloney> autofix I think tries to do som ebasic fixing...
<cmaloney> James might know more about how that works
<cmaloney> I haven't played with it, so not sure.
 * cmaloney sticks to audio. :)
<greg-g> just confused why the title had that in it
<cmaloney> Not 100% sure, but I think it was something that Google did to try to correct some algorpthmic flaws.
<greg-g> huh
<cmaloney> shakycam, white balance, audio perhaps?
 * greg-g shrugs
<cmaloney> Again, using my butt-voice.
<cmaloney> (aka talking out my ass)
<greg-g> :)
 * greg-g downloads anyway
<greg-g> "git-annex addurl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps-nJKPlitk" ;)
<cmaloney> youtube-dl :)
<greg-g> yeah, git-annex uses quvi, no idea what's different between them
<cmaloney> I can tell you one difference: I'll remember youtube-dl sooner than quvi
<greg-g> I don't need to remember it ;)
<greg-g> but yeah
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<rick_h_> sleepy tues
<cmaloney> yep
<cmaloney> tired this morn
<rick_h_> yea, same. Doing code reviews at 10pm is wearing
<rick_h_> starting at the coffee shop catching some run rise to hopefully help
<mrgoodcat> morning everybody
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: did you see i got the logger running on a domain that doesn't have 'dickweed' anywhere in it
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: hah didn't see the update but saw the original :)
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: I appreciate the update. Let me know if you need some dns <3
<mrgoodcat> it's running on logs.dyladan.me right now
<rick_h_> happy to create a CNAME or something
<mrgoodcat> i already set up the vhost to accept logs.bmark.us if you want to cname that to logs.dyladan.me
<mrgoodcat> the bmark domain is a little more official than my personal one
<rick_h_> sure thing
<rick_h_> updated
<mrgoodcat> when does GSoC application window officially end?
<mrgoodcat> got to be soon
<rick_h_> 21st?
 * rick_h_ goes to look
<rick_h_> yea, 3pm the 21st
<mrgoodcat> longer window than i'd have guessed
<rick_h_> yea, 2 full weeks to submit apps
<mrgoodcat> i wonder if alexm92 will be the last hopefull to filter in
<rick_h_> hopefully, it's hard enough
<mrgoodcat> i doubt it
<mrgoodcat> especially since bookie is a pretty small project, when it becomes apparent that the big projects aren't available anymore i think people will filter down to the smaller ones
<mrgoodcat> which they don't realize are already pretty much locked dosn
<mrgoodcat> down*
<rick_h_> well I hope they'll move upstream since they'll have more room/resources
<rick_h_> yea, I mean it's a sucky system because of the overload initially
<rick_h_> but the folks that got in early and got their patches and names in have the edge
<rick_h_> coming around now is just a waste of time tbh
<mrgoodcat> i don't think that's such a bad thing. it promotes good work ethic and dedication
<rick_h_> well but it gets them going nuts so off the gates they don't stop and think much about what they're doing/etc
<rick_h_> and swaps mentors hard
<mrgoodcat> yea. if you do it in the future it might be worth making a single pull request part of the application process. "I will only accept one pull request per candidate until applications are over so make it count"
<mrgoodcat> it would promote making detailed and well thought out pull requests
<mrgoodcat> I'm struggling a bit and maybe one of you can help me. I'm reading IRC protocol from a stream socket. IRC commands are terminated by \r\n. Sometimes, especially when I just connect to a server, multiple commands will be in a single recv. Am I better off going with a small buffer and reading each individual command from the stream one at a time, or a large buffer that will grab a bunch and then processing those
<mrgoodcat> i figured out a good way to do it. nevermind
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> again. ;)
<DrDaemonEye> moin cmaloney :)
<jrwren> i gave up and started drinking heavily yesterday, after I wrote about that slow django. :)
<jrwren> good morning ya'll
<mrgoodcat> lol good morning
<cmaloney> jrwren: Jej
<cmaloney> heh, even
<cmaloney> Apparently I'm speaking Norwegian. ;)
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: where did you get those arabic characters?
<rick_h_> off by one error today
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: ?
<mrgoodcat> maybe that wasn't you
<mrgoodcat> when trying to break the bot
<cmaloney> Heh. I went to my podcast page (Open Metalcast)
<cmaloney> Those were Cyrillic.
<cmaloney> .Ð¨Ð¸ÑÑÐ¾Ðº by ÐÑÐ³Ð¸Ñ ÐÑÐ°Ð²ÐµÐ´Ð½Ð¸ÐºÐ¾Ð² from Ð¨Ð¸ÑÑÐ¾Ðº
<Havenstance> good morning fellow michiganders
<jrwren> why doesn't pyflakes warn that iteritems is deprecated?
<mrgoodcat> it's iter(dict.keys()) now i'm pretty sure
<brousch> Havenstance: Good morning
<mrgoodcat> or you can just say "for k in d.keys():"
<mrgoodcat> if you're using a for loop
<jrwren> keys is not iteritems()
<mrgoodcat> er
<mrgoodcat> items
<mrgoodcat> sry
<jrwren> its viewitems now, but my question is why pyflakes doesn't warn me about it.
<mrgoodcat> oh
<mrgoodcat> not sure
<cmaloney> Yay, duplicity backup finally finished.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i did my initial backup over esata
<mrgoodcat> then moved it to a network location
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: This is USB3.0 local
<cmaloney> so not too horrible but slower than I thought it might be.
<mrgoodcat> how big?
<cmaloney> just under 2TB.
<mrgoodcat> how long did it take?
<cmaloney> Um... about 24 hours.
<cmaloney> So actually that's not too bad.
<rick_h_> jrwren: isn't it only deprecated in py3?
<cmaloney> Considering it's compressed as well
<mrgoodcat> yea. mine was like a week
<rick_h_> jrwren: I thought it was still in 2.7 and since it'll never be upgraded there no deprecation issues there
<cmaloney> I don't think I'm backing up the same amount of data as I was under rdiff either.
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: yes py3 only
<jrwren> rick_h_: it doesn't exist in py3
<jrwren> so I'd consider it deprecated in py2 :)
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: mine was like 7 TiB
<rick_h_> jrwren: right, but why would pyfakes give you warnings for py3 stuff?
<jrwren> why wouldn't it?
<rick_h_> jrwren: I mean does it correct yuor print, exceptions, etc?
<jrwren> python3 is the future, right :)
<mrgoodcat> ~pyfakes~
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Damn. :)
<jrwren> I'd like it to do those things.
<mrgoodcat> i have a huge movie and tv library
<rick_h_> yea, ok. So your concern is "why isn't pyflakes pointing out py3 incompat code"
<jrwren> rick_h_: yes
<mrgoodcat> i actually don't back it up anymore though
<rick_h_> jrwren: not so much "why isn't it yelling about iteritems"
<jrwren> rick_h_: yes, I guess so.
<jrwren> maybe its a python-mode option or something
<mrgoodcat> i had to add my backup storage to the raid 6 because i ran out of main storage
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I never got into storing video. Though I have 1TB dedicated to music. :)
<mrgoodcat> i'm not sure how much of mine was music
<mrgoodcat> but i deleted it all
<mrgoodcat> google music has completely replaced my local library
<cmaloney> Bah, that's all compressed. :)
<cmaloney> FLAC or get back.
<mrgoodcat> and google movies with netflix is slowing down my video storage as well
<mrgoodcat> my uncle is an audio engineer and we've had many discussions about audio codecs and such. the end result of which was, if you aren't in a studio you probably can't even tell the difference
<cmaloney> Right. But I still rip FLAC, but I don't get into the high bitrate nonsense.
<mrgoodcat> besides, its so convenient
<cmaloney> But I can tell the difference between FLAC and mp3
<mrgoodcat> too high bitrate can actually degrade your sound quality instead of raising it
<cmaloney> Yep. I watched the Monty / Xiph video. :)
<cmaloney> Unless you're bouncing tracks it doesn't make sense.
<mrgoodcat> you have to have a certain quality listening environment to be able to tell with the newer encodings
<cmaloney> Which is why I have to laugh at the Pono nonsense.
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: you went to gr on the wrong weekend. http://grdevday.org/Home.aspx is this weekend
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i'm probably within 12 months of taking my RAID array offline
<mrgoodcat> although i may be less that that away from a few disk failures.
<mrgoodcat> i'm surprised it hasn't gone yet to be honest
<greg-g> cmaloney: oh pono
<cmaloney> I think some new drives are in my future.
<greg-g> ditto
<cmaloney> 95% on two of my 1TB drives.
<cmaloney> and my 2TB backup drive is at 89%
<greg-g> oh, mine is for "more copies makes me happier" reasons
<cmaloney> I need to convince JoDee that a NAS is in my future. ;)
<brousch> cmaloney: You need a rack in the basement
<cmaloney> brousch: I need a basement
<brousch> yikes
<cmaloney> That's more important at the moment. :)
<greg-g> my 2x2tb RAID1 is only at 600 gig used, but I want to do a cycling backup of it with 2 drives. bringing one to the office each week
<cmaloney> I'm surprised how expensive 2TB of offsite storage is.
<cmaloney> Amazon S3 ain't cheap.
<rick_h_> huh?
<cmaloney> $163 per month for 2TB if I'm understanding properly.
<greg-g> cmaloney: I'm using glacier for my photos, not bad, obviously only for "oh shit the house burned down" situations
<rick_h_> I think you've missed some calculations there
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I have NFC what I'm doing. :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, I'd like to use Duplicity with Amazon Glacier but there's apparently some tricks to get that working.
<greg-g> I see 170 for 2tb on S3
<rick_h_> cmaloney: nvm, guess you're right
<greg-g> https://aws.amazon.com/s3/pricing/
<greg-g> .085 * 2000 = 170
<cmaloney> Yeah, at that rate I may as well get some drives and call it a day.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: I missed a 0 on my initial in the head math
<rick_h_> you have full 2TB of unlosable info? 2000GB?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: No worries. I was hoping I was wrong, honestly. :)
<greg-g> def, that's the cost of 2x2tb (well, $200 is)
 * rick_h_ is just a simple guy I guess. 
<cmaloney> I have 2TB of stuff that I'd rather not replicate
<cmaloney> 1TB of music (purchased and ripped)
<rick_h_> I mean my NAS has 1.5TB of stuff but that's like 4 years of backups
<cmaloney> and about 400GB of pictures / projects
<greg-g> the really important stuff? Photos and Videos I took over the years: 158.32gigs
<greg-g> all in glacier
<rick_h_> yea, but that's .158 TB vs 2TB
<rick_h_> so yea, I'd stick the music in glacier I suppose
<cmaloney> I have all of the podcast stuff in my projects directory and that takes up space.
<cmaloney> Yeah, and that may be the smarter way to do
<cmaloney> go
<rick_h_> or get that Google storage, that was 2TB for $1.99/mo?
<cmaloney> since I don't care about encryption on the music.
<rick_h_> http://readwrite.com/2014/03/17/google-drive-pricing-plans-drop-cloud-rivals-breakdown#awesm=~oySD6vIApskxQR sorry $2/mo for 1TB
<rick_h_> not sure if there's a good way in linux to fill/get at it
<cmaloney> Still, $4 a month is not horrible.
<jrwren> who wants to know the worst part of 14.04 trusty, the greatest ubuntu ever?!?
<rick_h_> jrwren: I'm game
<cmaloney> jrwren: You have nothing to bitch about?
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> he'll find something (see?!)
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> no python 3.4
<jrwren> python 3.4 released yesterday
<rick_h_> jrwren: :/ yea that's a sadface
<brousch> so trusty is worthless!
<rick_h_> means no asyncio in an LTS
<greg-g> huh, bad timing
<jrwren> brousch: no!!!
<brousch> fuckit. I'll wait for 16.04
<jrwren> rick_h_: exactly!
<cmaloney> So you'll have to side install
<jrwren> the no asyncio in an LTS is a bummer.
<cmaloney> boo hoo
<jrwren> cmaloney: true
<rick_h_> I'm with you jrwren, it's a big deal to python folks and people that deploy on servers
<cmaloney> blame the python developers for not getting 3.4 out sooner.
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> bastards.
<cmaloney> ;)
<brousch> This is unacceptable. Windows 8.2 will definitely have Python 3.4 bundled
<jrwren> i don't blame anything. Both are excellent releases.
<jrwren> brousch: nut-uh.
<mrgoodcat> lol windows 8.2 is more likely to have NSA.exe 3.4 bundled
<jrwren> I'm pretty sure it also comes with who_would_use_me?.exe v3.4
 * mrgoodcat wonders how long it will be before people lease laptops like cars
<mrgoodcat> Micro$oft and crApple would be so happy
<mrgoodcat> oh, we're sorry, you've violated the terms of service by installing linux and your desktop is being reposessed
<jrwren> most corporate organizations do exactly that, and have done so for years.
<jrwren> where you been mrgoodcat ?
<rick_h_> ok http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrqZl2QIz0c is kind of cool
<mrgoodcat> i'm not surprised
<rick_h_> <3 my pebble steel
<jrwren> great ad, if only it actually worked that well.
<jrwren> oh fuck that ad... a dad can't bathe his kid without checking a bball score. way to live in the moment douchebag.
<cmaloney> I can't cook without checking my twitter feed. ;)
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, he's there vs in front of the tv and getting them involved. I'll take it
<jrwren> yeah, i phone in parenting too
<cmaloney> Honestly I don't have much of a problem with that ad.
<tony-smlr> .t
<cmaloney> DUde already has split attention about the game vs. kid rime
<cmaloney> time
<cmaloney> so he's better managing kid time vs. game time
<tony-smlr> I was seeing if bookiebot  would give me the time
<cmaloney> 12:35
<cmaloney> ;)
<tony-smlr> Im setting up a bot on my #smlr channel
 * tony-smlr g
<cmaloney> bookiebot is a wip
<tony-smlr> bookiebot: help
<cmaloney> .help
<bookiebot> claim echo func help list pull release relist sleep
<cmaloney> .sleep
<bookiebot> slept ten seconds
<tony-smlr> ubuntulog2: hello
<cmaloney> I think that one is just a straight logger
<tony-smlr> yea,  ok
<cmaloney> tony-smlr: Which bot are you playing with?
<cmaloney> (for #smlr?)
<tony-smlr> yea,  I setup jenni
<tony-smlr> its a fork of phenny
<tony-smlr> http://is.gd/CPStvK
<cmaloney> .beats - Returns the current internet time
<tony-smlr> its kinda cool,  there is AI and will respond in coversation
<cmaloney> Man, that never took off the way it should. :)
<tony-smlr> I don't know what it is...  internet time?
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time
<cmaloney> it was a misguided attempt for giving everyone something that wasn't UTC that everyone could coordinate schedules.
<cmaloney> Problem was it was about as useful as planning around a UNIX time stamp
<tony-smlr> that seems cool  like the difference between metric and sae
<cmaloney> It was an interesting idea, but breaks down because none of the other measurements are decimal
<cmaloney> So one day = 1000 beats, but 1 hours is 41.6 beats
<cmaloney> and a minute is 0.694 beats.
<cmaloney> so it gets rather tedious
<tony-smlr> yea,  I can see that
<cmaloney> so mid-day is 499.9999999999999999
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation1
<cmaloney> Apparently this uses BMT as its official time
<cmaloney> Man, to be in the internet of 1999 again
<cmaloney> 1990s rather
<tony-smlr> ok,  got to go...
<cmaloney> latereness. Have fun!
<cmaloney> (but you don't have to do if you don't want to. :) )
<mrgoodcat> i walk away for 20 minues and miss an entire conversation about my bot
<mrgoodcat> wtf
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: This is why you need to have a watch with IRC on it.
<mrgoodcat> i have irssi notifier
<mrgoodcat> but i was at lunch
<rick_h_> you must never leave!
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: curse you and this sqlalchemy
<mrgoodcat> alchemy is exactly what it is
<cmaloney> What's up with sqlalchemy?
<cmaloney> other than it's the most fun you can legally have with a database?
<mrgoodcat> RoR just makes it so foolproof. i can teach someone to make a model and store it in a db in like 4 minutes
<greg-g> cmaloney: you should move to CA and have more fun!
<mrgoodcat> in 6 minutes you can have ownership relationships too
<mrgoodcat> sqlalchemy gives you a little more control at the expense of being more verbose and requiring a little more legwork
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: if you're having issues you're doing it wrong
<mrgoodcat> i'm not
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> what extra legwork? Creating a db session?
<mrgoodcat> no. it just takes a bit longer to learn
<rick_h_> oh yea to get all of it sure
<rick_h_> but it's a usable db layer in return
<rick_h_> vs all the AR crap
<mrgoodcat> you don't like activerecord?
<rick_h_> no, despise it. It teaches devs to be db lazy and they complain that SQL is broken when it's not
<rick_h_> AR is like giving someone a chromebook and tell them they're computing
<mrgoodcat> hey
<mrgoodcat> i have a chromebook
<rick_h_> you're web browsing...welcome to the computer party
<rick_h_> right, and do you compile code on that chromebook? edit dvds? etc?
<mrgoodcat> um yes
<rick_h_> you can do some tasks on it, but it's limiting
<rick_h_> ok fine...chromeos
<mrgoodcat> lol
<rick_h_> :P
<mrgoodcat> the new haswell chip in it performs surprisingly well actually
<rick_h_> AR is the chrome-os'ing of database development
<mrgoodcat> i was amazed at how fast it compiled my custom kernel
<mrgoodcat> you know, for a $200 11" netbook
<rick_h_> you too can have a crappy screen, crappy keyboard, and no storage space!
<rick_h_> :)
<mrgoodcat> yea i know
<mrgoodcat> that does bother me a bit
<mrgoodcat> the keyboard i've gotten used to
<mrgoodcat> and i'm waiting for one of these in the mail http://www.amazon.com/MyDigitalSSD-Super-Cache-Solid-State/dp/B00EZ2E8NO/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: write an AR layer on datamapper. its not difficult.
<mrgoodcat> 128GB
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: you're missing the point. i'm not saying AR is better or that sqlalchemy is worse. i'm saying rails was unmatched for quickly prototyping ideas
<mrgoodcat> obviously i'm not going to be writing an irc bot using ruby on rails
<mrgoodcat> and i already wrote one with ruby
<jrwren> i disagree, strongly.
<jrwren> IMO what you already know is easy, and what you don't know is not.
<jrwren> I never got good with rails, adn so prototyping ideas was never fast or easy
<jrwren> but I was/am super fast at doing that with C#
<rick_h_> greg-g: umm, I'm not sold on that blog post. Huh? People that send email to gmail using students are suing?
<rick_h_> it seemed to hop around from processing messages for ads, to users aside from ads, to consent from email originators?
<greg-g> rick_h_: All users of gapps for education are having their emails/etc scanned to produce profiles of them. This goes again what was agreed to by the Universities (I believe) when switching to gapps. University email is kind of sacred, and professors/etc shouldn't have to worry about a third-party for-profit making a profile on their communications.
<rick_h_> greg-g: ok but was there a clear violoation of agreed terms? It seems the post was heading there but then backed away
<greg-g> not sure, not sure that agreement is public (which it yet another stupid part of the deal)
<rick_h_> ok
<greg-g> there are some of us that say, even with this being in the agreement/was done with open eyes, it shouldn't have been done as it creates a bad precedent for university email and what can be used against professors
<greg-g> we already have one professor at UMich who is incendiary (forget his name, did a lot with the middle east), and if he used gmail or gapps, he would be putting both himself and others at potential risk if google had another flub (accidental) where they showed who you emailed most often publicly.
<rick_h_> yea, I'm all for raising the veil and such but it seemed the only firm things were you could not turn off email processing because it was required by featured provided (aside from ads) and people outside the org using the apps service were suing
<rick_h_> gotcha, so using institution email at a public U is considered a bit of a safe haven?
 * rick_h_ isn't up on prof email practice/etc
<rick_h_> but finds this interesting
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> it has been historically
<greg-g> universities and professors have a really special relationship
<greg-g> universities can't tell a prof what to research or not research (well, not any good university)
<greg-g> (once they have tenure)
<greg-g> so, academic freedom is at question here
<greg-g> if a prof's actions are chilled because of this, that's bad
<greg-g> "chilling effects"
<jrwren> BAM!  https://github.com/jrwren/homebrew/commit/9c732081726cad49aae6686c056f2770cec683b2
<rick_h_> :) go jrwren
<jrwren> if only I could make a pull request, but that is too much work, cuz I'm a lzy lazy dev.
<mrgoodcat> i'm sure someone else will do it
<jrwren> yes, but I decied it should be me. or that I should at least TRY to send pull req
<jrwren> good change for me to learn more about git.
<mrgoodcat> good for you
<jrwren> and it wasn't even difficult, cuz git is awesome.
<jrwren> https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/pull/27669
<jrwren> oh blah, there was already a pull req https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/pull/27636
<cmaloney> greg-g: Sick thing is JoDee's been told in no uncertain terms that students should be using their uni accounts to email her
<cmaloney> one of which is gapps, two of which are Outlook (which is unusable under Linux)
<cmaloney> s/uni/college/ but you get the idea.
<jrwren> i was told the same thing.
<jrwren> its a stupid, but understandable policy
<greg-g> cmaloney: :(
<cmaloney> Agreed, but interesting in light of gapps and the whole discussion above.
<jrwren> for students and admin its a different issue stemming from FERPA.
<cmaloney> worst. named. policy. ever.
<jrwren> FERPA says its a crime to even confirm or deny a students enrollment, so the schools attempt to claim that school email the only "secure" way
<jrwren> any other email account might be compromised and would be a violation of ferpa to discuss student status
<cmaloney> ferpa is once again a policy enacted by folks who don't understand education
<cmaloney> JoDee can't even discuss grades with students.
<jrwren> which is really interesting given our state of "give up your password" so we can probe your computer.
<cmaloney> jrwren: exactly.
<jrwren> cmaloney: how old are her students?
<cmaloney> 18+
<jrwren> why can't she discuss grades?
<cmaloney> rarely will she get one under age
<jrwren> even under age, if they are college level, ferpa applies.
<cmaloney> jrwren: she can't over email that isn't controlled by the school
<jrwren> oh, right.
<jrwren> not just grades, should not discuss any course work. doing so would imply a student is enrolled, which is a ferpa violation.
<cmaloney> and again, stupid.
<cmaloney> Much like SOX.
<cmaloney> problem: Enron
<cmaloney> solution: Handcuff every company so nthing like tht can ever happen again.
<jrwren> what else would you do cmaloney ?  have accountants and CEO go to jail?!?
<jrwren> for the record: i DO want them to go to jail.
<jrwren> ...
<jrwren> things like this are why I have high hopes for ubuntu phone & tablet: http://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/18/itunes-beta-local-syncing/
<jrwren> ubuntu one is cool and all, but the prospect of open source phone and tablet mean I could write code and make it use owncloud or whatever if I wanted.
<brousch> Why couldn't you do that with an Android app?
<jrwren> cuz android sucks.
<jrwren> and I hate it.
<jrwren> and java sucks
<jrwren> and dalvik sucks
<jrwren> and google is evil empire and cannot be trusted.
<jrwren> are there any good android open source apps?
<jrwren> ... subsonic media player is good, I suppose.
<jrwren> are there any good android open source apps for email and calendar?
<brousch> https://f-droid.org/
<jrwren> brousch: nice!  I need to check this out
<brousch> This is supposedly the second best email client (behind Gmail's) https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=k-9&fdid=com.fsck.k9
<brousch> I'm not sure about calendar'
<brousch> jrwren: Andr Replicant is an Android OS for the freetard-lover http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicant_(operating_system)
<jrwren> that is great, I still dislike the underlying technology used to build it (java/dalvik) and the bastard android userspace.
<jrwren> again, all reasons why I have high hopes for ubuntu mobile stuff
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'm not a huge fan of SOX. I think it's entirely too much overhead
<cmaloney> jail for fraud, definitely
<cmaloney> Still gobsmacked that there have been no heads rolling for the financial crisis.
<jrwren> cmaloney: why would they? those who would prosecute are bought and paid for by the criminals
<cmaloney> again, gobsmacked.
<jrwren> things I didn't know about python2: http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3113/
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> i've been hearing a lot about python3 lately. I've not heard much about this: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Python3
<cmaloney> http://moto360.motorola.com/
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ^^
<rick_h_> cmaloney: been looking :)
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> now is this lenovo or google moto?
<cmaloney> I'd assume it was Google Moto when developed.
<cmaloney> but not sure if it's Google or Lenovo Moto that's releasing it.
<cmaloney> ie: Is it something that should have been strangled in the crib and being released or is it awesome.
<cmaloney> Someone in $company just sent a .docx file containing (I shit thee not) just a URL.
<cmaloney> I'd like to issue a Microsoft-abuse citation
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: about MeritMail... that's what we're on now
<ColonelPanic001> personally, I favor stay on it because I like our email being on our platters, but I get the feeling that's not what will happen
<greg-g> #awkward
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<cmaloney> God, I fucking hate Ruby.
<cmaloney> ore more correctly: rvm is a real pain in my ass.
<greg-g> we're hiring a ruby dev
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh john ping'd me about my talk
<rick_h_> cmaloney: you need to turn the board of doom into a kanban board :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: yeah, he mentioned it to me
<rick_h_> cmaloney: gave him the book to go read
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh, good luck!
<cmaloney> I'm not 100% convinced it'll work for us
<rick_h_> yea, too isolated, not enough team
<cmaloney> Mostly because our devs aren't 100% interchangable.
<cmaloney> Right
<rick_h_> maybe something will get nicer, if only the WIP tracking and such
<greg-g> same here :/
<cmaloney> We're little silos with some overlap with John
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ++
<rick_h_> some way of at least opening up things a bit
<rick_h_> visibility is good
<cmaloney> I'm working on installing Redmine 2.5 at the moment. :)
<rick_h_> hah sorry
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's really where I want us to land.
<cmaloney> Knowing how much we're trying to eat at one time
<cmaloney> we don't hve that.
<greg-g> Phabricator!
<rick_h_> wheeee
<cmaloney> phuck that.
<greg-g> http://fab.wmflabs.org/
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> our test instance of it
<cmaloney> down atm?
<greg-g> if you request an account, I'll approve, it's a throw away instance
<greg-g> oh lol
<greg-g> we're migrating our OpenStack cluster from one DC to another... this must be currently migrating over the tubes
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> Looks AMAZING!
<greg-g> :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: you sure know how to demo :P
<cmaloney> It's like a 404 page, but not even there.
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> :) :)
<rick_h_> it's SIMPLE!
<rick_h_> that's hard to do man
<greg-g> see! we're right on track! nothing to do!
<cmaloney> It's a GANTT CHART FOR THE MIIIND!
 * rick_h_ starts chanting about "mission accomplished!"
<rick_h_> ok, gone on too far. /me is brain melted after another busy crazy day
<rick_h_> interviewing is hard
 * rick_h_ would rather be coding
<greg-g> :)
<mrgoodweb> ji
<mrgoodweb> hi*
<mrgoodweb> left my laptop at work D:
<gamerchick02> mrgoodweb sorry to hear that. i leave mine there every day. :-P
<mrgoodweb> i don't ever leave it at work
<gamerchick02> your personal laptop?
<gamerchick02> mine is work issued and i leave it locked in the desk
<gamerchick02> *shrug*
<mrgoodweb> yes personal
<mrgoodweb> i'm quite upset about not having it
<mrgoodweb> my project is on it and i was in the zone
<mrgoodweb> now i can't work on it until tomorrow
<gamerchick02> ugh i'm sorry
<gamerchick02> can you go back and get it?
<mrgoodweb> possibly after class
<mrgoodweb> but i can't leave school until ~10
<gamerchick02> ugh
<gamerchick02> rebooting for a game... :) see everyone later
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-19
<jrwren> wow... I really do have more storage than I know what to do with... for the time being.  datavg   5   6   4 wz--n- 12.74t 6.81t
<rick_h_> woot!
<jrwren> yeah.
<cmaloney> Evening
<mrgoodcat> good evening yourself
<rick_h_> party party
<rick_h_> and then bed time
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> double morning
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> rick_h_: It's WEdnesday today, just in case you needed a reminder. ;)
<rick_h_> heh yea I do
<rick_h_> I'm not sure where I'm at any more
<cmaloney> I gathered.
<rick_h_> when do we get to NAPDay?
<cmaloney> Not sure
<cmaloney> I think it happens between CoffeeDay and PassOutDay.
<mrgoodcat> today is coffee day
<mrgoodcat> super cheap coffee at biggby for their birthday
<mrgoodcat> 2$ 20oz hot mocha caramel ftw
<jrwren> \m/
<DrDaemonEye> mrgoodcat: good day for coffee
<jrwren> awesome song to start the day always helps.
<mrgoodcat> i have a quick sqlalchemy question about best practices
<mrgoodcat> i have a module to store my model. Should I have code in the model to create the table if it doesn't exist or should that be in the main code?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: db migations, check out alembic
<rick_h_> manage migrations manually vs auto creating things
<mrgoodcat> so they should be run separately outside the app?
<rick_h_> yes, the app shouldn't magically create data store imo. It hides that you typod the db name, etc
<mrgoodcat> thats the way it was done in rails too. i was just wondering. alembic must be the same thing basically as rake db:migrate?
<rick_h_> yes
<mrgoodcat> ok
<cmaloney> Alembic can also be used to generate the migrations
<rick_h_> yes
<cmaloney> Think of it as a melding of rake db:migrate and the magic migration management of Active Record
<cmaloney> but less magic. :)
<cmaloney> and written by a serious badass
<mrgoodcat> rake db:migrate is the magic migration management of active record. unless i'm misunderstanding what you mean
<cmaloney> Right, but not recalling offhand in Ruby what makes the migration files that get parsed
<cmaloney> s/Ruby/Rails/
<mrgoodcat> got it. in rails its just a rake task
<cmaloney> right.
<cmaloney> Haven't touched Rails in quite a while (outside of trying to install Redmine. ;) )
<cmaloney> and fixing a bug in Tracks. ;)
<mrgoodcat> i still use rake for things that aren't even rails related
<mrgoodcat> i use it the same way rick_h_ uses make
<brousch> But then you need Ruby on your computer
<mrgoodcat> i have ruby so no big deal
<mrgoodcat> i write things for myself to use, and if they happen to be useful for other people then great
<mrgoodcat> not the other way around
<mrgoodcat> i just reread that and i sound like a dick. i promise it sounded better in my head
<mrgoodcat> but the statement stands
<brousch> On the Internet, everyone sounds like a dick
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> but you know what i mean right? rake is more comfortable for me. if someone else wants to use my app and really wants make, they can port it. otherwise i don't think it's a big deal
<mrgoodcat> when i make apps for other people i try to stick to dependencies that everyone is likely to have. so no rake tasks
<mrgoodcat> how often should i commit() sqlalchemy? or is it better to let it deal with those semantics by itself?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: it depends, most web things will commit at the end of every web request
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: but in scripts I might bunch commits into chunks of 10 or 20 for performance reasons
<rick_h_> if you're doing something else, commit where the transaction in progress is 'done'
<mrgoodcat> ok. so if performance isn't an issue, a commit after each process is ok
<rick_h_> sure
<mrgoodcat> but chunking them together makes it process faster
<rick_h_> yea, every transaction creates locks and the commit takes time. So if you do a looped new trans/commit for every record you'll find it's 100x longer than a single commit
<rick_h_> but that's bad because if one item in the transaction fails and it rolls back you've got nothing in the db to show for it
<jrwren> unless that is a good thing.
<rick_h_> so I tend to create bunches. And if one fails for some issue, it's only that batch that I need to address
<rick_h_> jrwren: definitely
<rick_h_> it all depends on what you're doing
<jrwren> as usual, it depends.
<jrwren> as usual, adult diapers
<rick_h_> woot!
<rick_h_> diaper me!
<mrgoodcat> great
<mrgoodcat> ty
<mrgoodcat> i'm going to keep the commit schedule i already had, but now i feel better about it
<rick_h_> ex: importing bookmarks. I do in batches. if one or two fail fine, we can deal with a failed batch and reimport
<rick_h_> ex2: Alter all records to be lowercase: maybe you want this as a single large commit so that you don't miss any
<rick_h_> and if anything fails, then don't convert the data
<mrgoodcat> i just pressed ^C during a try-except clause that lasts all of .002 seconds and the program didn't quit. it just caught the exception... wtf...
<mrgoodcat> terrible timing
<mrgoodcat> good lesson learned though... i should explicitly catch KeyboardInterrupt
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: maybe we'll actually get around to that test today at CHC
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: ok coolio
<jrwren> "Alter all records to be lowercase" <-- don't use an ORM
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, true. I use SQLE layer for that
<rick_h_> but still, you manage transactions and such as it should be a migration
<jrwren> i see.
<mrgoodcat> switching to sqlalchemy was definitely a good idea. thanks whoever suggested it
<mrgoodcat> i think it might have been jrwren
<cmaloney> I wish I knew more about network interfaces.
<cmaloney> I'd love to use my LXC containers outside of my private machine
<cmaloney> but I'm worried I'll goof up Virtualbox in the process
<cmaloney> and not 100% sure how VBox does bridging
<cmaloney> and my Google-fu is not showing me a definitive "step 1., step 2." process
<jrwren> KVM > VBox
<jrwren> I'm pretty sure VBox just runs brctl for you
<cmaloney> jrwren: if I do brctl list i don't see anything outside of lxcbr0
<jrwren> huh. nevrmind then. I have no idea.
<cmaloney> (show, rather)
<mrgoodcat> lxc containers running inside a vbox?
<cmaloney> no, alnogside
<cmaloney> I use vbox for a Windows machine
<mrgoodcat> there is a pretty good digital ocean article about making lxc public
<mrgoodcat> hang on i have it bmarked
<cmaloney> tx
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/articles/getting-started-with-lxc-on-an-ubuntu-13-04-vps?refcode=074ce6598105
<mrgoodcat> BOOM
<cmaloney> tx
<mrgoodcat> i run all my services in lxc
<mrgoodcat> i used to use docker but docker only runs on 64 bit
<mrgoodcat> the important bit is this: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 80 -j DNAT --to 10.0.3.143:80
<cmaloney> Interesting that their solution is to use NAT to hook to the internal container.
<mrgoodcat> where 10.0.3.143 is the private address of your lxc container and port 8- is the one you want
<cmaloney> Hadn't though to go that route.
<mrgoodcat> thats what i do
<cmaloney> Hmmm... nginx as a proxy to this app. :)
<mrgoodcat> i do that as well
<cmaloney> tx. That might be just what I need.
<mrgoodcat> np
<cmaloney> hah! Awesome!
<cmaloney> That's just what I needed.
<mrgoodcat> great
<mrgoodcat> glad to help
<cmaloney> Thank you
<mrgoodcat> no problem
 * mrgoodcat wishes there was a distro where all programs were wrapped in lxc by default
<mrgoodcat> i think the logistics of getting that many lxc containers to communicate with each other might be a nightmare though
<mrgoodcat> would be nice if any non-core services ran in lxc though
<jrwren> i want that too
<jrwren> with all the storage in ceph
<cmaloney> Yeah, I think that might be both cool and a nightmare as well
<cmaloney> cool that everything is self-contained
<jrwren> so the host is a tiny cloudimg itself that does some ceph storage management :p
<cmaloney> and a nightmare because ^^
<mrgoodcat> there are a lot of things i want. would be nice if /etc configurations were standardized as well
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: i Think you might need a time machine for that one. ;)
<mrgoodcat> yea
<mrgoodcat> pretty much everything would have to be rewritten
<mrgoodcat> it's a part of the reason nixos is so interesting
<cmaloney> Well, it seems to me a way to emulate a mainframe-like environment
<cmaloney> where everything is extremely job-controlled
<cmaloney> *nix had the memory management that sort-of protected processes from each other
<cmaloney> now we have that on steroids.
<mrgoodcat> would be cool if there was some sort of juju like program to manage services in containers on a local machine
<cmaloney> "I'd like to run ls in 'incognito' mode". :)
<mrgoodcat> wat
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> Create a one-off container for running ls. :)
<mrgoodcat> in case there is a 0day exploit that involves folder names?
<cmaloney> yep
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> When people are out to get you, paranoia is just good thinking. :)
<greg-g> well, if I were an attacker and I owned a box, I'd replace some common commands like ls and cd with wrappers that also go off and cover up my tracks
<brousch> rick_h_: How many proposals have you received for gsoc?
<jcastro> n0p, ping
<mrgoodcat> jcastro: wrong window
<jcastro> hmmm?
<mrgoodcat> oh. i assumed you didn't mean to say that since it seems like nonsense to me
<jcastro> oh I say that all the time to people
<mrgoodcat> maybe it means somethign to someone. i apologize
<jcastro> even in real life!
<brousch> mrgoodcat: It means jcastro was trying to get n0p's attention
<mrgoodcat> oh
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> time for lunch
<rick_h_> brousch: hmm, 10 so far, I've got a few more sent via email
<brousch> geezum pete
<brousch> kivy only has 2. I think it's because we're part of PSF which has 21 sub-orgs
<rick_h_> yea, I think we've been on the high end of things
<rick_h_> which is @$##@ as a first time org with only a couple of spots we're trying to get
<brousch> I see a lot for scientific python going by
<rick_h_> brousch: 11
<rick_h_> wheeee
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Found a neat plugin that integrates Kanban-style card shuffling with Redmine
<rick_h_> cmaloney: cool
<cmaloney> http://www.alleyinteractive.com/blog/alley-redmine-taskboard/
<cmaloney> Playing wiht it under Redmine 2.5
<cmaloney> http://magnatune.com/artists/introspekt
<cmaloney> currently bopping to iNTROSPEKT
<rick_h_> nice to see the disclaimer on the bottom there
<rick_h_> cool though
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: oh, I know. instead of /etc/ configurations standard, lets use a database for configs. we could call it a registry.
<rick_h_> ugh
 * rick_h_ runs away
<jrwren> i ate lunch across the street from n0p and didn't even invite him. I'm a dick.
<rick_h_> oooh, lots of that going around today
<brousch> rick_h_: We just got our 3rd submission. 2nd for the part that I would work on
<rick_h_> brousch: cool, got another one up to 12.
<rick_h_> I just hope google gives us the two spots we asked for
<rick_h_> the docs say new orgs normally only get 1
<rick_h_> that would suck
<jrwren> how much do they get paid?
<rick_h_> 13 now
<rick_h_> 5500
<rick_h_> for the 3 mo
<brousch> geez
<brousch> geez on the 13
<jrwren> lets have a fund raiser and fund the second spot ourselves if goog doesn't :p
<rick_h_> we need moar bookie mentors!
<jrwren> if I had a clue about bookie, I'd offer to mentor.
<rick_h_> If I had the mentors I could easily take 5 quality students on.
<rick_h_> some are meh, and the others aren't worth the time
<rick_h_> but we've had 5 or 6 solid students
<brousch> jrwren++
<brousch> If Bookie was in Django ...
<jrwren> lol, then I'd REALLY run screaming :p
<brousch> What? jrwren I thought you were a fellow django-lover
<rick_h_> they have a fellowship in that now?
<brousch> We ride ponies and play Django Reinhardt songs together
<rick_h_> woot
<cmaloney> jrwren: I don't have a clue and I'm the backup. :)
<rick_h_> kind of cool, we had a netcraft security audit done
<rick_h_> makes for some interesting reading to see someone pick apart your app
<jrwren> django ain't bad, but I'd not say I love it.
<jrwren> its sooooo heavy weight.
<rick_h_> it's good for what it's good for
<jrwren> even that is more friction taht I like. I'd like more convention and less required configuration
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: well you don't gotta be a dick about it
<rick_h_> it's a requirement and seems to be the theme of the day
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: the idea of the registry isn't fundamentally flawed anyways. just terrible execution. if it had atomic upgrades/rollbacks, version control, and core system didn't depend on it (so you would still be bootable in case of failure), I don't see why it couldn't be useful for some things
<mrgoodcat> also storing executable code in the registry was awful
<mrgoodcat> and it would need to be backed up correctly
<mrgoodcat> and the userspace tools for it could be better
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: lol, i was joking. I was not trying to be a dick.
<mrgoodcat> but given those things, the idea of centralized configurations isn't nessecarily bad
<jrwren> i agree.
<jrwren> many config files in /etc are executable.
<jrwren> things in /etc/default/* typically just get sourced by a shell, you could put any executable code in there you want.
<jrwren> python programs often just load config as a python module
<mrgoodcat> a lot of people just regurgitate "THE REGISTRY SUX" without even knowing why they say it. Im not accusing you of that, but i'm just sick of every single conversation about the registry ending in the same stupid undereducated place
<jrwren> the registry sucks because I can't grep, awk, sed, perl, python it like I can plain text :)
<jrwren> and managing permissions on trees is painful, largely for the same lack of tools you already mentioned.
<mrgoodcat> it's just poor implementation
<jrwren> Much of "the registry sucks" rhetoric IMO, come from registering com components. which is really a com detail.
<mrgoodcat> i think 99% of it is people regurgitating shit they've heard other people say
<jrwren> likely.
<jrwren> honestly, i've not heard anyone complain aobut it in years.
<mrgoodcat> btw thanks for the sqlalchemy tip
<mrgoodcat> i think it was you
<cmaloney> I think the biggest problem is the registry is a giant shithole of hashes.
<mrgoodcat> and if it gets corrupted your system won't boot
<cmaloney> and it makes it extremely hard to find anything in there unless you have a map, a torch, and a sherpa.
<mrgoodcat> which makes me really nervous when i'm editing things that i'm not 100% sure about
<cmaloney> jrwren: So there you go. Reset the shot clock. :)
<mrgoodcat> what?
<cmaloney> The "i've not heard anyone complain about [the registry] in years" comment
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> well it would be nice to standardize configuration even if it was just standardized syntax in /etc, but that would require every single program to be rewritten with the new config syntax and every developer would have to agree on the new one. in other words, not going to happen
<jrwren> not to mention "it would be nice" isn't very good trade off for "now I can't optimize"
<jrwren> e.g. postfix configs use bdb, ldap, lmdb, etc.
<jrwren> not using optimal configuration systems for a task at hand is not optimal.
<jrwren> I like our potentially optimal /etc
<jrwren> OSX and iOS have this single config system - plist. they suck.
<cmaloney> I personally like dot files
<cmaloney> and dot directories.
<cmaloney> at least I have a snowballs chance in hell of removing config should the need arise
<cmaloney> which is why I hate the registry with a passion
<jrwren> same here.
<Havenstance> does anyone have a link a help guide or something to help me configure this server? I have 4 nics, I want one to get dhcp from the internet and the other 3 to host 3 subnets that assign other clients dhcp on them.
<jrwren> Havenstance: no problem.
<Havenstance> jrwren, glad it's no problem for you lol, I've been pulling my hair out over this for 3 days now. I'm using server 13.10 if it matters
<jrwren> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7121342/
<Havenstance> then eth3 be static as well?
<jrwren> and then a /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf with subnets for your dhcp
<jrwren> Havenstance: if that is what you want.
<Havenstance> jrwren can you give me a slight idea as to what that might look like? as I said im having so much trouble with this its unreal
<jrwren> the dhcpd.conf?
<Havenstance> yeah just a basic syntax and I can fill in my information
<jrwren> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7121357/
<jrwren> isc dhcpd is nice enough to ignore interfaces with addresses in ranges that you don't specify, so it won't offer leases on your DHCP client interface
<jrwren> that dhcp config assumes you have 192.168.15,16,17 on your three static interfaces
<Havenstance> jrwren, thank you, I was out of the office for a few but thanks again this should work
<Havenstance> jrwren, sorry about taking that to the other place.. I just wanted some clarification on what I was looking at as your setup is just a bit different then mine :)
<Havenstance> and before i waste another 8 hr day on this I wanted to make sure it'd work :)
<jrwren> no worries. i just thought it was funny that I was there too
<jrwren> Havenstance: someone caught /etc/default/isc-dhcp-server, which I had missed. INTERFACES= in there.
<jrwren> which means I was wrong about it not offering on ohter interfaces.
<Havenstance> hm, okay
<Havenstance> I wish there was a GUI or something to do this automatically kind of like the Windows Server 2008 DHCP Config :)
<Havenstance> But this is a good learning experience
<jrwren> you are insane.
<jrwren> text > gui.
<jrwren> i'd hate doing this in a DHCP msc
<Havenstance> I agree text > gui but for a noob gui = text :)
<jrwren> i disagree.
<Havenstance> because finding where those text files go is horrid sometimes
<jrwren> i'm a noob on many, many things, and i find text much easier to configure
<jrwren> a gui just confuses me and adds to my noobness
<jrwren> finding where they go is easy. I know how to use strace and strings to see what a process is doing to know where it wants them.
<Havenstance> I suppose, but I literally just started experimenting with ubuntu server. I'd like to get it going and operating because I can see how much more reliable then most things this is
<Havenstance> I will say uncommenting a couple lines and throwing in text in files is great if you know what files to edit and where to put them. I expect I'll probably break this a few more times before I'm done lol
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> at that point, its not much different than poking in a gui and checking a few of the wrong checkboxes
<Havenstance> I'm trying to learn though so that has to stand for something
<Havenstance> and most of it im doing on my own granted I pick some brains when I need to but usually as a last resort :)
<Havenstance> if all things were the same in a perfect world someone would have written a tutorial for this by now that says you do this this and this then this this and this and point this at this and your good to go
<Havenstance> iface eth0 inet dhcp my understanding of that is its telling the system this is the DHCP Server and all clients get addresses from this card?
<Havenstance> d'oh, next line answsered that it tells eth0 it gets ip from dhcp
<jrwren>  /etc/network/interfaces is very well documented
<jrwren> man interfaces
<Havenstance> yeah I'm finding that out :) its just trying to decypher some of it is a bit confusing at times
<Havenstance> I think i'm more confused on the syntax then the actual configuration though. I know what I want and I can explain that till im blue in the face but the syntax still doesn't make sense when someone pastes it.
<Havenstance> http://askubuntu.com/questions/140126/how-do-i-configure-a-dhcp-server/184351#comment481661_184351
<Havenstance> this is what i found. but the subnet netmas and range under the DNS config doesn't make sense to me
<jrwren> that isn't a very good answer.
<Havenstance> I have 3 subnets getting addresses
<jrwren> someone should edit it.
<Havenstance> so wouldn't I need to specify all 3 and all 3 pools?
<jrwren> yes?
<jrwren> man dhcpd :)
<Havenstance> It looks quite interesting actually
<Havenstance> I now see why people charge so damn much for setting these up though. not that its hard just lots of time required
<jrwren> ya know... now that I skim the docs some. I'm not sure a single dhcp server can do what you want.
<jrwren> you might need to run 3, each with different config and each listening on a different interface.
<Havenstance> if that is the answer im going to kick my own ass, and I think you might be right
<jrwren> that is the easy way, for some definition of easy.
<Havenstance> well, I think its the right way like your saying it makes sense now
<Havenstance> if eth1 is subnet 192.168.1.x then dhcp 1 would need to listen on eth1 and assign from the 1.x pool, then eth2 would be dhcp2 from the 2.x pool and so on with eth3
<Havenstance> so if i used webmin to do this I need to configure 1 dhcp server on each of the eth1,2,3 with config for each. it makes sense
<Havenstance> i'll give it a go and i'll let you know how it works out for me
<Havenstance> im also seeing the iptables which i don't recall configuring because the guide i was following said i didn't need it i just needed to uncomment a line in /etc/network/interfaces
<Havenstance> jrwren, could this local network bridge be the issue? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BridgingNetworkInterfaces do i need to run that script to bridge ports eth1,2,3 with 0?
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2014/03/19/computers-making-identity-theft-possible/
<Havenstance> jrwren, i think i just found an article covering the whole of what i was asking about https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Router
<cmaloney> Evening.
<cmaloney> (almost)
<cmaloney> jrwren: http://surveillance23.bandcamp.com/
<cmaloney> (and anyone else who like Assemblage23)
<jrwren> Havenstance: you said you wanted different subnets per interface, so I did not recommend bridging.
<jrwren> Havenstance: I actually bridge 5 or so interfaces and do DHCP for that one net with one IP subnet at home.
<jrwren> the config I linked you was based around that.
<jrwren> also, webmin doesn't work with ubuntu, or at least it isn't tested so YMMV
<cmaloney> Waiting for JoDee to finish up her exam so I can take her home.
<cmaloney> sheesh, this sucker must be the homma-momma of exams.
<cmaloney> Already going on hour 2
<cmaloney> (she managed to sprain her ankle earlier today)
<cmaloney> so I'm sure she's going to be dipping into the Jamesons tonight
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-20
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: you not going to be at chc?
<rick_h_> hello strangers :P
<rick_h_> moving the table over there would make a mess
<mrgoodcat> i doubt it
<mrgoodcat> you could ask the nice fellow at the other table to switch tables with you
<cmaloney> No it wouldn't.
<cmaloney> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/932069/building-a-minimal-plugin-architecture-in-python
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> dhttp://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/20sv8o/phoronix_ubuntu_1404_now_runs_well_on_the_2013/cg72y52
<mrgoodcat> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/20sv8o/phoronix_ubuntu_1404_now_runs_well_on_the_2013/cg72y52
 * rick_h_ wants to go back to bed
<brousch> Congrats on the new hire for JuJuGUI
<rick_h_> brousch: you know him?
<brousch> Yes. He makes his way to GR occasionally and is a friend of Brondsema
<brousch> Nice guy
<brousch> Probably really hard to leave the old job, but I don't blame him. It sounds like a sinking ship
<rick_h_> brousch: nice cool
<rick_h_> yea he was a mark ramm guy "I want this guy"
<brousch> Ah, yeah, they would've worked together
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> sooo, I'm not allowed to say "$A#@$# OFF!!!!" right? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bookie_bookmarks/WD97W78d5n4
<brousch> Getting the real winners here at the deadline
<rick_h_> heh
<brousch> I would post just a link to the gsoc instructions
<brousch> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2014
<brousch> Bookie is in the short list
<cmaloney> I love the applications that are essentially the template.
<cmaloney> Makes it easier to score them. :)
<brousch> I get an email for every proposal and every comment on a proposal for the entire PSF group. It is annoying
<mrgoodcat> morning
<rick_h_> brousch: ugh
<rick_h_> yea, I was going to do things under PSF but kind of cool that we got our own
<rick_h_> and now that we're in, should be easier in future years I think
<rick_h_> if we do well in the reviews I guess
<brousch> Yeah. I'm not really seeing the benefit of being under the PSF umbrella yet
<brousch> There's an extra hoop to jump through
<rick_h_> yea but you know they'll get accepted
<mrgoodcat> is bookie still very busy now that applications are done?
<rick_h_> so if psf takes you, then you don't ahve to worry about google's approval as much
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: well apps go through tomorrow. So all last night was scoring apps and more coming still
<brousch> Right, but you got in fine
<rick_h_> but these are mostly slackers
<rick_h_> brousch: because we're awesome! :P
<mrgoodcat> simple to score lazy people
<rick_h_> yea
<brousch> I agree, but Kivy has been awesome for nearly 10 years
<rick_h_> now it's just life that's busy
<mrgoodcat> are you scoring more based on work ethic or coding ability?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: both, demonstration of learning, willingness to take criticism, quality of work submitted, etc
<rick_h_> someone I feel my mentorship won't be wasted on :)
<mrgoodcat> good thing i didn't apply. sounds like real work
<brousch> It is!
<rick_h_> yea, I'll have them do hangouts, kanban on trello, code reviews, etc
<mrgoodcat> did 2 people just quit at the same time or did a server just netsplit?
<mrgoodcat> welcome back waf
<Havenstance> morn
<mrgoodcat> mornin
<Havenstance> anyone else going to penguicon?
 * brousch shivers uncomfortably
<mrgoodcat> i was thinking about it
<Havenstance> me too, if for no other reason to see the newest ubuntu lts
<Havenstance> granted it will be out before then but still
<mrgoodcat> oh i'm downloading it right now
<Havenstance> its not officially launched yet is it?
<mrgoodcat> no
<Havenstance> damn, i'd like to throw it on this server and save from a dist upgrade in a month lol
<mrgoodcat> i always fresh install
<mrgoodcat> i've had terrible luck upgrading to new versions
<Havenstance> well that's good information to have
<mrgoodcat> and it's so easy to re set up
<Havenstance> I'll have to inform my boss that it comes out soon and maybe wait on this server deployment until its out
<mrgoodcat> wait for 14.04.1
<mrgoodcat> that's when it becomes officially supported for commercial use
<Havenstance> yeah, the hardest part I have with setting it up is getting the DHCP to work
<mrgoodcat> it will be in like august
<Havenstance> but with jrwren's help yesterday I think I've managed to figure out the configs i need
<mrgoodcat> usually takes 2-4 months for commercial support
<Havenstance> ah well then I'll just go ahead with 13.10 and when 14.04.1 comes out in august we'll upgrade then
<mrgoodcat> it's just too buggy to use before that for any mission critical application
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: thanks for that surveillance link. good music :)
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Cool. Glad you liked it!
<mrgoodcat> added to g music :)
<Havenstance> I have another question about this DHCP if anyone could answer :) well more like about static IPS
<Havenstance> If I have eth0 as my feed from router and i set it to static to configure everything when i remove the router and put in the modem directly to eth0 can I change it back to dhcp without breaking the whole thing?
<cmaloney> define "breaking the whole thing"
<cmaloney> ?
<Havenstance> having the dhcp server stop handing addresses out on eth 1 2 3
<Havenstance> if my understanding is correct on this the DHCP Server relies on the address assigned to eth0 in some way doesn't it?
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: so you want to change from static input and giving out 3 addresses to dhcp input and still giving out those addresses?
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: can you post your dhcp config?
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, yes because I have a charter modem that gets a DHCP Assigned addreess
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, I don't have one yet lol I need to write it but I want to make sure that if i need some argument to make it work i put it in now :)
<cmaloney> Any particular reason for removing the router from the equation?
<mrgoodcat> the 3 dhcp addresses are private addresses, correct?
<Havenstance> yes
<mrgoodcat> you shouldn't have a huge problem
<mrgoodcat> private addresses don't care about your public address
<Havenstance> this box is going to route the internet in from the outside world and feed back to eth 1 2 3 all internal networks
<Havenstance> as long as i use mklink to link eth 0123?
<mrgoodcat> i agree with cmaloney though. why are you removing the router?
<Havenstance> The boss wants one less thing to go wrong
<Havenstance> idk exactly I'd leave it if it were up to me
<Havenstance> but I think he wants this box to handle port forwarding and everything
<cmaloney> I see it as one more thing to go wrong if someone broke into the network
<mrgoodcat> yea
<cmaloney> ie: have the router be a jumping point to the DHCP server.
<mrgoodcat> routers provide good services
<Havenstance> so your suggesting leave router between charter and eth0
<cmaloney> Hells yes.
<Havenstance> how bout i pretend i didn't hear his request and i'll leave it anyway :)
<mrgoodcat> or at the very least install something like zyntal on the server if you have to get rid of the router
<Havenstance> I believe that the router has to stay anyway
<cmaloney> it might just be some thumb-sucking comfort thing but I'd rather have one layer between me and the external network.
<Havenstance> its a dual wan router anyway
<cmaloney> That way too if you decide to go with !charter your network doesn't have to change
<Havenstance> we have two internet feeds here one from Charter one from ATT so I think that router has to stay in place anyway and now that I think more about it the router can't leave
<mrgoodcat> zyntal would essentially turn your server into a router
<mrgoodcat> router/firewall
<Havenstance> would it auto config this thing? LOL
<mrgoodcat> yes
<mrgoodcat> that's what its meant to do
<Havenstance> because even if it has the router before it having to port forward to router on eth0 then on router on eth0 to external world I think is more secure anyway
<mrgoodcat> holy crap i spelled it wrong
<mrgoodcat> http://www.zentyal.org/
<Havenstance> this looks very similar to clearos
<mrgoodcat> yea sort of
<mrgoodcat> but more professional
<mrgoodcat> well i guess that's not fair
<mrgoodcat> i've never used the "professional" clearos
<Havenstance> no its fair
<Havenstance> clearOS isn't that great
<Havenstance> so many features that are virtually broken
<Havenstance> is there a noob reference for this thing somewhere mrgoodcat ?
<mrgoodcat> umm...
<mrgoodcat> hang on
<mrgoodcat> i have a bmark somewhere i used to refer to
<mrgoodcat> but it really isn't that hard
<Havenstance> I see that lol
<Havenstance> Just a lot of shit I don't wanna get lost in I've wasted a week on this already
<Havenstance> this debian based?
<mrgoodcat> hmmm well this is exactly what you were saying you wanted to do. it isn't the same one i used to use but i can't find my old one http://www.howtoforge.com/zentyal-as-a-gateway-the-perfect-setup
<mrgoodcat> ubuntu based
<mrgoodcat> so yes technically?
<Havenstance> oh hell even better :)
<Havenstance> he said he wanted ubuntu based xD
<Havenstance> so I can technically give him what he wants by giving him this
<Havenstance> and it looks easy enough to manage
<mrgoodcat> it's fairly simple
<Havenstance> http://doc.zentyal.org/en/ this the one you used?
<Havenstance> im going to install this on the server get it partway working then go plug it into the gateway router and config it in place I think this would be the best
<Havenstance> thank you mrgoodcat
<mrgoodcat> no problem
<Havenstance> does this support encrypting the FS to unlock from USB Key too? cuz that's one other thing he wants that I find really irritating
<mrgoodcat> what do you mean?
<mrgoodcat> plug in a usb key to get fs access?
<Havenstance> yeah
<mrgoodcat> so you can't boot without the usb?
<mrgoodcat> your boss sounds paranoid
<Havenstance> unfortunately that's exactly what he wants
<mrgoodcat> i like him
<Havenstance> I hate that side of him LOL
<mrgoodcat> hang on let me see
<Havenstance> if its ubuntu i should be able to putty into the core and script it though
<mrgoodcat> i've never set up a system like that
<mrgoodcat> it's basically ubuntu
<Havenstance> yeah, I can figure that part out
<mrgoodcat> is it just the /home paritition or something that he wants encrypted?
<Havenstance> worst case scenario he has to enter a password and deal with it lol
<Havenstance> no he wants full disk luks encryption
<Havenstance> and if its ubuntu it should be in the installer
<mrgoodcat> because you can't encrypt the full disk after install
<Havenstance> right is this available as a package upgrade for ubuntu by chance?
<mrgoodcat> as just a regular install in vanilla ubuntu you mean?
<Havenstance> cuz i already have a ubuntu install completed on this machine
<Havenstance> yeah like a sudo apt-get install zentyal or soemthing equal
<mrgoodcat> https://wiki.zentyal.org/wiki/Installation_Guide#Zentyal_3.4_packages
<mrgoodcat> the zenbuntu-install package i believe is the "preffered" option
<mrgoodcat> er zenbuntu-desktop rather
<Havenstance> hm, let me check
<Havenstance> oh yes i see that in the full graphical environment job there zenbuntu-desktop
<Havenstance> that would be perfect because I just have a shell of a system right now anyway
<Havenstance> one thing about it my putty skills are getting good :)
<mrgoodcat> i've only ever used it on remote servers. so web interface, but i believe there are regular gui tools as well if that is your prerogative
<Havenstance> i'd use the web interface for most things but I might toy with some of the GUI tools just to see what I get into
<mrgoodcat> wait this is a headless server right?
<mrgoodcat> you probably don't want the gui then
<Havenstance> it was until i did the apt-get install zenbuntu-desktop
<mrgoodcat> ok
<Havenstance> lol
<mrgoodcat> so it has a monitor and such
<Havenstance> yeah it has monitor and keyboard
<mrgoodcat> i just wanted to make sure you weren't installing the gui on a remote desktop
<mrgoodcat> er remote server
<Havenstance> I only use putty to run commands cuz im too lazy to setup vnc right now
<mrgoodcat> lol
<Havenstance> and far to lazy to type by hand if I don't need to
<mrgoodcat> are you required to use winblow$ for work?
<Havenstance> guaranteed if this works he buys the commercial version
<Havenstance> nah I'm not required to use much of anything at all
<Havenstance> but I use Winblows 8.1 because its just easier to run .exe files
<Havenstance> and every computer in the building that's going to be a client to this uses it
<Havenstance> most of my experience is with Winblows though
<Havenstance> if this was 2008 server I'd have had it doing what I needed within hours
<Havenstance> but he's willing to pay me to do the legwork and learn and research so im game its his money if he want's to pay for trial and error i'll learn whatever I can
<mrgoodcat> lol good for you
<Havenstance> Sadly, I stumbled upon this job on craigslist
<Havenstance> he's doing all of this security, and intranet for a hardware store/gas station
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> good for him
<Havenstance> yeah this just got major point with me I think he's going to like how this looks. oddly I can put webmin in and let him deal with that if he wants to but most likely he'd rather use the zentyal web interface thats built in
<mrgoodcat> what gas station has multiple WAN internet?
<mrgoodcat> is it a drug front or something?
<Havenstance> you know, I don't ask about that part lol
<Havenstance> its the hardware/service center though
<Havenstance> they have to have constant connection to use their parts system
<mrgoodcat> but dual WAN... really?
<Havenstance> idk lol, I think they've had problems with charters service in the past
<mrgoodcat> from 2 different service providers
<mrgoodcat> i'm gonna laugh when the telephone pole falls and both services go out
<Havenstance> the phone company dsl comes from an underground line
<Havenstance> that's why he got them too i guess
<Havenstance> my suggestion, go with t1 or t3
<Havenstance> he said the DSL came free with the business phone account though so thats why its there for backup
<jrwren> t1 or t3 come from the same lines.
<Havenstance> right but not from the cable company
<Havenstance> either way I guess his system works lol
<Havenstance> anyone know if there is a apt-get command to reconfigure firefox?
<Havenstance> im getting an error saying the profile is missing or inaccessable
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: on what OS?
<mrgoodcat> sudo dpkg-reconfigure firefox
<mrgoodcat> just saw apt-get
<mrgoodcat> must be ubuntu
<Havenstance> yeah its ubuntu :)
<Havenstance> and now it says to restart all running, but I can't find any running....
 * Havenstance slaps ubuntu - not today lol
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: it just says that in case you have some running
<mrgoodcat> if firefox is open and you change any files, the ones that are currently open don't reflect the change until you close and reopen them
<mrgoodcat> because files in linux are opened by file descriptors not by name
<Havenstance> yeah i never told it to open
<mrgoodcat> gedit file1; save file1; while still open rm file1; gedit file1 in new window; make changes; there are no errors. 2 files with exact same name on the filesystem
<Havenstance> every time i try it says the profile cannot be loaded or it says its missing
<Havenstance> but either way it never actually loads firefox
<mrgoodcat> sudo apt-get purge firefox && sudo apt-get install firefox
<mrgoodcat> sudo apt-get purge firefox && sudo apt-get install google-chrome
<mrgoodcat> even better
<Havenstance> i'll take that second one
<mrgoodcat> if $boss asks why you changed browsers tell him mrgoodcat from the internet says hi
<Havenstance> he won't care
<Havenstance> im the guy setting it up i configure it how i want he never knows the difference :)
<greg-g> yeah, I like how Google gets all my data as I browse, great feature of Chrome
<Havenstance> plus everything we do uses chrome anyway lol
<greg-g> :P
<Havenstance> fyi apt-get install google-chrome failed
<Havenstance> so i used apt-get update && apt-get install chromium-browser
<greg-g> at least chromium is only floss code, unlike Chrome
 * greg-g stops being the annoying guy standing next to the group talking
<mrgoodcat> chromium is actually what i use
<mrgoodcat> wait no
<mrgoodcat> i use google chrome unstable
<mrgoodcat> idc if google gets my browsing data
<mrgoodcat> they use it to make my google services better anyways
<mrgoodcat> at least when google gets my data it is becaused i use their service with the understanding that they're in the business of collecting my data. not like backdoor government unconstitutional bullshit
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: sure, and just remember what the *actual* google services are. What customer support have you gotten from Goolge? The only people who get such support are advertisers, as they're the customers.
<mrgoodcat> still don't really give a shit
<mrgoodcat> google now is usefull
<greg-g> fine, that's your call if you want your data shared with all those advertisers
<greg-g> just saying the obvious that you're not the person they care about.
<mrgoodcat> i don't care if my data was made public at google.com/mrgoodcat
<greg-g> cool
<mrgoodcat> i understand people that do
<greg-g> mind dumping out your email archive?
<mrgoodcat> and if you don't want your data shared then don't use google
<mrgoodcat> sure
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: this makes dumping the emails in a readable fashion easy: http://www.mhonarc.org/
<mrgoodcat> i'll fight to the death for my right to privacy. but i also don't have to choose to excercise that right
<greg-g> see for instance: https://public.resource.org/aaron/pub/threads.html
<mrgoodcat> google is creating my archive right now
<mrgoodcat> i'm interested to see what's in it actually
<greg-g> google makes a public email archive?
<mrgoodcat> yup
<mrgoodcat> well not public
<mrgoodcat> it makes an archive of your personal data so you can see what google has on you
<mrgoodcat> even though i doubt google shares the text of my emails with advertisers, i stil want to see what's in it
<mrgoodcat> ghey. "process could take up to 48 hours"
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: i think you're misunderstanding me. I fully believe in my right to privacy. I just choose to allow google to have my data and use it to further their business model. without that understanding, google wouldn't have done a lot of the things it has done that make my life easier
<mrgoodcat> time 4 lunch
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: oh, yeah, that archive. I had it do the weekly summary of my activity. My employer uses gapps for email, unfortunately :/
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: and yeah, I understand, was just in a 'woke up with a headache' mood this morning ;)
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: enjoy lunch
 * greg-g goes to a coffee shop
 * greg-g slept in 'til 8, which was only an hour ago where he lives
<cmaloney> lmorchard: You mentioned a while back that you were looking for weird time signaturey goodness
<cmaloney> not sure if I mentioned this before but Animals as Leaders
<cmaloney> is fucking amazing.
<rick_h_> whoa, busy channel
<rick_h_> how's today gone? Only now getting to look up
<greg-g> meh
<rick_h_> meh I can work with
<rick_h_> so is meh > ugh ?
<rick_h_> I want to be sure
<greg-g> Rel Engineer who's been mostly MIA lately came back to do today's big deploy, is still mostly MIA ;)
<greg-g> yeah, meh > ugh
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> MIA? How does one go MIA?
<cmaloney> meh is fixable
<cmaloney> Ugh is a big ball of feh.
<greg-g> MIA is kind of wrong, he's selectively MIA
<cmaloney> And nobody wants feh
<rick_h_> fu?
<cmaloney> feh fu is fucked.
<cmaloney> also: having bookie mailing list forwarded home is not conducive for me being able to reply to the list. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> was going to add that Breadability might need peeking
<cmaloney> but the more I think about it, I don't think that's the case.
<Havenstance> damn at the rate all of this is going I think I need to take another smoke break....
<greg-g> oh smoke breaks, those used to be nice
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Only reason to take up smoking in some places
<greg-g> I went to a 'mindfulness in parenting" thing last night. A big part was "work really hard to find those 5 minute breaks where you can do some self-work/awareness"
<greg-g> a smoke break would do that
<greg-g> but then harm your kid, so... nah
<rick_h_> ugh, just take a break
<rick_h_> yesterday just paced my driveway a bit
<rick_h_> this 40+ degree weather is nice!
<greg-g> I'm mostly joking re smoke break, but I did smoke when I was a camp counselor
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, that helps
<rick_h_> my parents smoked and hated them for it so I'm a strong hater sorry
<greg-g> no worries, totally appreciate
<brousch> rick_h_: We have a guy/kid down the street who is always pacing back and forth in his yard/driveway. I think he is insane
<Havenstance> yeah I usually only smoke at work far away from my kiddo
<greg-g> my dad smoked, quit when I was born (but not when my older sister was)
<greg-g> then he gained a lot of weight :/
<Havenstance> I really probably don't even smoke enough to call myself a smoker
<Havenstance> I go through a pack a week
<greg-g> 3/day
<Havenstance> roughly
<greg-g> (for those who don't know the quantity of smokes in a pack)
<Havenstance> and I don't smoke on Saturday and Sunday at all
<Havenstance> I only do it at work because it gets me out of the office for 5-7 minutes depending on if i have 100s or not lol
<rick_h_> brousch: cool, I'm aiming for the crazy old man on the block thing
<greg-g> rick_h_: :) :)
<greg-g> Havenstance: you can just go out for a walk :)
<Havenstance> yeah but everyone congregates around the ashtray LOL
<Havenstance> and I'm a social person by default
<Havenstance> that and I used to smoke a pack and a half to two packs a day for 10 years
<Havenstance> "Working" on quitting
<Havenstance> i told the wife a few months ago that when the snow was gone I was going to quit
<Havenstance> so soon as it melts up here im done
<cmaloney> My dad smoked a pipe when I was growing up
<Havenstance> i thought about doing that, but i couldn't smoke a pipe and have it be tobacco in the pipe so thats out
<greg-g> lol
<Havenstance> reminds me too much of my younger years :)
<cmaloney> I flirted with smoking when I was at college and when I worked at Meijer. But I was one of those folks who could make a pack of cigarettes last a week.
<Havenstance> cmaloney, i am one of those now lol
<cmaloney> Probably got more second-hand smoke than I did while smoking. :)
<cmaloney> Cool, got the "Debt: The first 5K years" book on hold at the library.
<greg-g> cmaloney: yay
<greg-g> cmaloney: as I warned jrwren, he needed a more active editor, he repeats himself a bit, so be wary of that, but the content is otherwise good
<cmaloney> yeah, I gathered it was more of a self-published affair. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: http://surveillance23.bandcamp.com/  nice.
<jrwren> i didn't realize it when you posted it yesterday. I've had this album on my phone for a couple weeks :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, I figured I was late to the party.
<cmaloney> I stumbled upon it.
<greg-g> TIL: cmaloney uses lame browser extensions to find web content :P
<jrwren> oh no, not late at all. I love good music recommendations.
<jrwren> oh man, the Debt: The first 5k years, I got about 1/3 the way through, and got bored. its written in 3 parts, so I'll have to pick it up again and read part 2 :)
<jrwren> That book changed my view on some things.
<greg-g> ditto
<mrgoodcat> so many commercial. i've seen more hundais in the last 2 hours than i've seen on the road all year
<jrwren> lolz
<Havenstance> lol
<mrgoodcat> lost the first game of the month
<mrgoodcat> that can't be good luck
<mrgoodcat> ohio state sucks at sportball
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, so i put that zentyal on here installed the packages
<mrgoodcat> nice
<greg-g> wait, what season? baseball?
<cmaloney> Basketball
<greg-g> that just started? oh, college...
<brousch> hockeyball
<greg-g> brousch: isn't that called "broomball"?
<brousch> Isn't that what they call curling?
<brousch> Too many sports!
<mrgoodcat> broomball is like hockey but played with brooms instead of sticks and in shoes on ice
<mrgoodcat> also known as "fuck my hip hurts"
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: that
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> well, doesn't address the "I don't trust google" stuff but <3 http://r.bmark.us/u/48216a6ec69c32
<mrgoodcat> i trust google significantly more than i trust the government
<greg-g> that's cool, and boy is that a sexy pic
<mrgoodcat> have you read up on the iMessage protocol?
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: there one and the same ;)
<greg-g> revolving door and all that :)
<mrgoodcat> if they aren't lying about how it's done it's actually pretty cool tech
<mrgoodcat> well application of tech anyways
<greg-g> btw, any php devs still in here?
<mrgoodcat> they didn't exactly pioneer public key crypto
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: php--
<mrgoodcat> did you see the new "hack" language from facebook?
<rick_h_> greg-g: widox
<greg-g> some projects that started 10 years ago can't afford a rewrite :)
<mrgoodcat> yea i know
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: that's what I was going to mention!
<greg-g> https://code.facebook.com/posts/264544830379293/hack-a-new-programming-language-for-hhvm/
<mrgoodcat> and rewriting to hack is apparently supposed to be pretty easy from php
<greg-g> we're (Wikimedia Foundation) are in the process of moving to hhvm, so this might be a next good thing to do
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: s/<?php/<?hh/
<greg-g> widox: take a look at hack, static typed php
<mrgoodcat> we were just talking about this at chc
<mrgoodcat> time to go to class
<brousch> This is hilarious http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-files/why-cant-i-create-a-folder-with-name/23c86662-4988-4c7d-9c2d-3e33d4413de3
<cmaloney> It's stuff like this that make me glad I'm not a Windows developer
<Havenstance> ROFL
<mrgoodcat> that is awesome
<Havenstance> teach him to create a folder called m0r0n
<mrgoodcat> its shit like this microsoft
<Havenstance> shit like that makes me want to die laughing
<Havenstance> But then again that user is proably to windows like I am to linux
<Havenstance> s/proably/probably
<mrgoodcat> did you know you can't make a file named con?
<widox> greg-g: huh
<widox> types in my php, screw that. I love chaos. :p
<greg-g> hah
<jrwren> it is pretty nuts that windows still has that legacy filenames.
<widox> greg-g: are you already running production on hhvm?
<jrwren> Windows hasn't been dos for a long time.
<greg-g> widox: no, not in production yet, we're in the process of adding it to our 'beta' environment (ie: the thing that looks kinda like production, only it's on OpenStack virtualized hosts, and it gets it's code updated with every commit to master) as a "if you have this manually set cookie it'll use hhvm"
<greg-g> ..for that request.
<jrwren> huh... crazy.
<jrwren> how the heck are you going to implement that?
 * Havenstance2 salutes mrgoodcat your solution earlier worked like a charm
<jrwren> web server reading your cookies before passing to fcgid?
<greg-g> jrwren: not sure :)
 * greg-g isn't in that group
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: glad to hear
<Havenstance> still checking it out but it looks like its assigned by DHCP
<Havenstance> im using this machine through it now :)
<mrgoodcat> nice
<mrgoodcat> it has cool firewall options too
<Havenstance> it has literally a TON of options
<mrgoodcat> and if you really get into it you can mangle packets and do things like deep packet inspection
<mrgoodcat> we use ours at work to intercept all emails and scan attachments for viruses and forward them on without anybody ever knowing
<Havenstance> really we wanted to put wireshark in to see what websites were being accessed but this looks like its already got that in it its just a matter of configuring it
<Havenstance> afk for the night be back tomorrow
<greg-g> jrwren: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54173
<rick_h_> cookie feature flags, crazy
<greg-g> just for testing purposes
<rick_h_> yea, we just use localstorage or url hacking
<rick_h_> simple, but yea can't keep people from doing it so mcuh
<rick_h_> not that a cookie can either
<rick_h_> but interesting
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: made that plugin system without exec http://hastebin.com/girigigusu.py
<greg-g> rick_h_: I'm not sure why that, we use url hacking most of the time as well
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: AWesome!
<mrgoodcat> its pretty basic. i didn't get much time to spend on it today
<mrgoodcat> but its a start
<mrgoodcat> time for class
<gamerchick02> good luck in class
<cmaloney> Love t: small change to busy busy bugs gave it infinite levels and a hair more difficulty.
<cmaloney> I <3 game programming
<gamerchick02> :)
<jrwren> greg-g: thanks for the link
<jrwren> i still think apache routing based on cookie is a little nuts... but I like nuts :)
<greg-g> so do we :)
<jrwren> I don't know of a way to do it other thank a reverse proxy mod rewrite rule.
<jrwren> but that is still a rewrite, which means different url paths which isn't what you want.
<jrwren> its a facinating problem.
<jrwren> greg-g: is your regular php via mod_php or via fastcgi?
<jrwren> this raises all kinds of curiosity in me.
<jrwren> can i config apache to change handlers based on other things, like source ip address or http request headers :)
<greg-g> I... should know but don't
<jrwren> I had to look it up
<greg-g> but: https://git.wikimedia.org/tree/operations%2Fpuppet.git
<greg-g> it's all there
<greg-g> (except passwords/ssl keys)
<jrwren> its hard to read apache <if> in a sea of puppet <% if
<greg-g> hah, yeah
<greg-g> one of our devs wrote an apache rewrite DSL
<greg-g> I think I told you that already, actually
<jrwren> looks like <if "%{REMOTE_ADDR} -ipmatch '192.168.15.2/31'"> SetHandler php<else>SetHandler fcgid</if>
<jrwren> would do it.
<jrwren> facinating
<jrwren> i vaguely recall that.
<jrwren> no cookie variables https://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/expr.html#vars
<jrwren> which is a bummer.
<jrwren> or even request header variables
<jrwren> i supposed you could write an apache module to create cookie variables and use those with <If>
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-21
<rick_h_> smoser: http://developer.rackspace.com/blog/using-cloud-init-with-rackspace-cloud.html woot
<jrwren> oh man, if that is woot I should really blog about what we are doing with cloud-init :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: you're also providing a cloud that gives me free hosting?
<jrwren> no
<rick_h_> no woot then :P
<jrwren> rackspace gives you free hosting?
<rick_h_> yea, bookie at least
<jrwren> whoa, very good of them.
<rick_h_> but it's so painful to use I've not taken advantage of it
<jrwren> why do they do that?
<rick_h_> OSS program, good pub, get devs using it
<jrwren> cool.
<rick_h_> a lot of python stuff is running on rackspace donated cloud stuff
<jrwren> boto works with rackspace.
<jrwren> so where is the pain?
<rick_h_> With jessee noller taking over their stuff
<rick_h_> the whole 'getting a root password' etc
<rick_h_> I can't juju it :(
<jrwren> you should blame juju.
<rick_h_> and it only recently (Feb here) got cloud-init
<jrwren> i don't believe that.
<rick_h_> heh, I'll have to see if twitter will let me pull up my posts with their cloud guy
<rick_h_> they run openstack, but without cloud init
<jrwren> user-data has been in openstack for a long time.
<jrwren> they do?!!?   wtf?!??!
<rick_h_> yep, they didn't have that enabled
<rick_h_> verified and complained about over a year ago
<rick_h_> that's why this url is 'woot!'
<rick_h_> FINALLY!
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: https://twitter.com/search?q=rackspace%20cloud-init&src=typd
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/jessenoller/status/375458091547914241
<rick_h_> anyway, all cool now. Will have to find time to take another stab at getting something decent going
<mrgoodcat> so endeth the trick
<jrwren> that is nuts.
<jrwren> cloud servers are useless without user-data
<jrwren> USELESS>
<jrwren> in fact, I'd go as far as to say its not a real cloud :p
<mrgoodcat> hello
<jrwren> so wait... the cloudimg didn't have cloud-init installed or user-data didn't work or both?
<jcastro> n0p, ping?
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: didn't have cloud-init installed
<mrgoodcat> at least
<mrgoodcat> idk what else they changed
<mrgoodcat> in python, is there a way to define interfaces/abstract classes? or am i supposed to just create a class with the functions i want and make them just raise exceptions then subclass it and override them?
<mrgoodcat> in other words is this "pythonic" http://hastebin.com/sarijujegu.py?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: it's done, not sure on pythonic
<mrgoodcat> i'm looking into either abc or zobpe.interface right now
<mrgoodcat> zope*
<rick_h_> http://docs.python.org/2/library/abc.html
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> most part I think it's duck typing all the way. try/except
<rick_h_> vs getting to built up
<cmaloney> jcastro: I think n0p just idles in here.
<mrgoodcat> not sure if that sounded better in your head but i didn't quite get your grammar there
<cmaloney> Haven't seen him say anything for a while now
<rick_h_> lol, I'm beat sorry
<mrgoodcat> nbd
<mrgoodcat> we can talk tomorrow if you'd rather
<rick_h_> basically why not just define the classes, when you call methods on instances wrap in try/except vs throwing exception from a base
<mrgoodcat> i don't get properly in my zone until midnight
<rick_h_> it's what testing is for, make sure it works like you're expecting
<rick_h_> or use abc or zope
<mrgoodcat> i guess i could try except
<mrgoodcat> i'm used to the java way, where interface is definitely called for here
<rick_h_> yea, and that's not really the python way
<rick_h_> see the dunder magic methods
<rick_h_> you don't declare you're an iterable, you just act like an iterable
<mrgoodcat> this? http://www.rafekettler.com/magicmethods.html
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea
<rick_h_> these are all ways of duck typing your way into being python built ins
<mrgoodcat> at least this isn't my first experience with duck typing
<mrgoodcat> i think i can handle this
<mrgoodcat> the problem is i'm going to be having other people write modules that i'm loading, and they have to implement specific functions or it won't work. i was looking for a way to force them to write them properly
<waf> mrgoodcat: think of iterable in python. nothing prevents you from writing "for x in 5: print(x)"
<waf> it just throws an exception saying "hey jerkface, ints aren't iterable"
<waf> you could do something similar, throw an exception saying "not a valid module" or whatever is appropriate for your scenario
<mrgoodcat> i was hoping for a compile time error
<mrgoodcat> that won't error until it runs
<mrgoodcat> i guess it wont matter if it never gets called
<waf> you're a ruby guy. isn't ruby the same way? you don't have compiler errors for this sort of thing, right?
<mrgoodcat> i'm a ruby guy yes
<mrgoodcat> i've never had this specific problem in ruby though
<mrgoodcat> er rather i've never felt the need to solve it
<mrgoodcat> i don't HAVE to properly handle bad modules. i could just let the program crash. if i was writing it for myself i might do that. but other people have to write these modules so i wanted a way to validate that it's correct
<waf> well it looks like that abc thing will give you some protection/validation
<waf> i haven't used it, though
<mrgoodcat> i decided to let it go
<mrgoodcat> if they make functions that don't work, the thread will just die
<mrgoodcat> s/functions/modules
<mrgoodcat> what about immutable data structures? i can't seem to find one in python
<mrgoodcat> or a way to make them i should say
<rick_h_> tuples
<rick_h_> strings technically
<rick_h_> are immutable
<mrgoodcat> tuples are immutable?
<mrgoodcat> didn't know that
<mrgoodcat> TypeError: 'tuple' object does not support item assignment
<mrgoodcat> ty
<mrgoodcat> woot my mod notebook just shipped :)
<brousch> rick_h_: Damn emails are pouring in this morning. Easily 100 proposals and comments on PSF stuff since I went to bed. Ug
<rick_h_> brousch: lol yea
<rick_h_> we had another bunch of proposals
<rick_h_> we've over 20
<brousch> crazy
<rick_h_> 24 I think total
<rick_h_> I stopped looking, was working past 10pm last night so no bookie time
<smoser> jrwren, you could
<smoser> you should blog about that.
<smoser> rick_h_, thanks for pointing me at that.
<jrwren> IMO interfaces and even abstract classes are not pythonic. They get in the way of duck typing.
<cmaloney> good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> smoser: cool, yea it's interesting. Would be cool to add juju support to them but they've gone all salt it seems
<jcastro> man, jjesse totally missed my troll on G+
<jcastro> I said "there are two great Michigan teams in the tourney" this year
<rick_h_> jcastro: :P
<jcastro> get it?
<jcastro> 2 great teams!
<jcastro> MSU and Western!
<rick_h_> we'll see
<jcastro> do you like how I didn't even acknowledge the existance of the wolverines?
<rick_h_> jcastro: I like that everyone and their mother is picking MSU which I will take as a sign you're doomed
<rick_h_> :)
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> even the President
<rick_h_> doomed
<jcastro> but whatever, I've been saying that since the beginning of the season
<jcastro> it sucks that people are bandwagonning now
<rick_h_> so I'll wait until you're out and we're still in, then you'll hear from me
<jcastro> yeah like last year, lol
<jcastro> well, look at OSU, already gone, lol
<jcastro> that's hilarious
<rick_h_> nothing wrong with that
<smoser> rick_h_, well, just because a cloud provider prefers technology-A there is no reason that its users cannot prefer technology-B
<smoser> right?
<rick_h_> smoser: oh definitely
<smoser> its pretty much a known "best practice" to give MSU one game more than they "should" win.
<jcastro> an all-Michigan championship game would be incredible
<jcastro> well, other than Arizona killing everyone
<jrwren> i thought western was out and umich advanced.
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I made the comment yesterday before everyone played though
<jrwren> oh! I missed it.
<jcastro> tried to have wings at the new BW3 last night, but forgot U-M was about to start playing
<jcastro> so there was like an hour long wait
<smoser> indiana has zero teams in the NCAA tournament.
<jrwren> jcastro: Womens lacrosse played at the big house last night. You could have gone to that!
<smoser> they've had 6 before. (purdue valporaiso evansville noter dame indiana butler indiana state ... none of them.)
<jcastro> well my day is off to a good start
<jcastro> booked a meeting, no one showed up, lol
<rick_h_> heh, sitting in the same boat atm jcastro
<smoser> hey. i just did this: http://smoser.brickies.net/git/?p=tildabin.git;a=blob;f=ssh-via;
<smoser> if you ssh through "bounce hosts" a lot and don't like editing .ssh/config in order to do so, that might help
<smoser> (canonical uses bounchosts extensively)
<jrwren> smoser: ha! cool.
<smoser> now with improved usage (which i thought i pushed initially)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> great morning!
<smoser> he told you, cmaloney
<brousch> cmaloney: Your tiny font in email hurts my eyes
<brousch> I wonder why it's so tiny
<cmaloney> brousch: Because it was copy / pasted from the mailer daemon that won't let me use decafbad.net as a surrogate for my Google mail.
<cmaloney> If someone would riddle me how to add an email address to my Google account that has the same rights and privileges as my gmail account for Google Groups please let me know.
<brousch> Host it on google apps for your domain
<rick_h_> jcastro: so I'm not allowed to answer http://askubuntu.com/questions/437361/laptop-friendly-alternatives-to-unity-window-placement-shortcuts?sgp=2 with "USE A TILING WM!"
<rick_h_> ?
<jrwren> google sucks. stop using their stuff.
<jrwren> I think google's quality is now below that of microsoft.
<rick_h_> jrwren: so you've got that windows phone?
<rick_h_> and using skype for all your video calling needs?
<rick_h_> :P
<jrwren> maybe next phone. i'm rocking at almost 4 yr old iphone
<brousch> What's the Windows equivalent of Google Groups? Even the Google-hating Windows-loving groups here use Yahoo Groups
<cmaloney> jrwren: Please point to Microsoft's free mailing list with newsgroups.
<cmaloney> though I'm not particularly thrilled with Google Groups either
<jrwren> i'm looking.
<cmaloney> but they don't make me want to throw up in my mouth like Yahoo Groups.
<jrwren> i thought they used to have something.
<jrwren> https://onedrive.live.com/?v=GroupView
<cmaloney> Needs a one drive account
<jrwren> yeah.
<cmaloney> which is the equivalent of telling me to go fuck myself. :)
<jrwren> no.
<jrwren> the account is what used to be a live account
<jrwren> still is called a live account I think
<jrwren> if you ever created an MSFT account in the past 10 yrs, try that.
<cmaloney> Assumption: I've used a Microsoft online service in the past 20 years.
<jrwren> ok.
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> no different than the gmail assumption you have now.
<cmaloney> jrwren: My complaint is I have my gmail forwarded home
<cmaloney> so I read my mail via Thunderbird / Mutt
<cmaloney> and whenever I respond to a mail it doesn't know me from Adam.
<cmaloney> so it bounces.
<brousch> You can join a Google group with a gmail address
<cmaloney> And I'm not seeing an obvious way to add this
<brousch> without
<cmaloney> ^^
<jrwren> really?
<brousch> yes
<cmaloney> They used to make it pretty obvious
<cmaloney> and now I'm not seeing how to do this.
<jrwren> i don't know. my live login is jrwren@xmtp.net and has been for 10-15 yrs.
<jrwren> oh you are talking about google apps.
<cmaloney> Yes.
<jrwren> google apps is broken. get used to i.
<cmaloney> Nobody uses Microsoft outside of the desktop
<cmaloney> except for my mom who refuses to get rid of her God damn hotmail account.
<brousch> My sister still has an aol account
<cmaloney> This does not surprise me.
<jrwren> that is like saying nobody uses yahoo.
<jrwren> why not this? http://www.freelists.org/
<brousch> I love google Groups
<cmaloney> First I'm seeing this.
<brousch> Use it through email, or like a forum. Good moderation tools
<cmaloney> Which means it'll get cut in the next plussification. ;)
<cmaloney> Bookie Communities FTW.
<brousch> It is possible. I don't see how google is making money from it
<mrgoodcat> wtf just happened to my server room?
<mrgoodcat> every single server just rebooted
<greg-g> power flap?
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Sorry about that
<mrgoodcat> each server has its own ups and the room has a backup generator
<mrgoodcat> its the one at work not home
<mrgoodcat> which means my headache is just about to start
<brousch> Maybe a power surge so big it overwhelmed all of the UPSes?
<mrgoodcat> would have to be a big power surge...
<brousch> get out the fire extinguisher
<jrwren> ssh backdoor decided to prank you with a distributed reboot
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, that zen you wouldn't happen to have an idea of how to limit traffic between subnets would you?
<Havenstance> nvm I figured it out :)
<Havenstance> Thanks again for that recommendation its working beautifully thus far
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: glad to hear it
<mrgoodcat> turns out it wasn't as bad as i thought
<mrgoodcat> we had 2 machines on one psu that went bad
<mrgoodcat> the 2 machines just happened to be essential parts of what i was doing at the time
<jrwren> a PDU failure? those suck.
<mrgoodcat> er not psu, ups
<mrgoodcat> it just took a minute for the failover servers to take over
<jrwren> automated failover!  fancy!
<mrgoodcat> well not fancy enough obviously
<Havenstance> lol
<Havenstance> it apparently doesn't play nice with any encrypted drives at all though
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> zenytal doesn't?
<mrgoodcat> what's your encryption scheme?
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: it shoul
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, i had the home folder encrypted
<Havenstance> did it with ubuntu install
<Havenstance> when I installed Zentyal-Desktop the firefox was broken
<Havenstance> Reinstalled with no encrypted reinstalled zentyal and it works like a charm
<Havenstance> I honestly believe that its a mounting issue because it says that the profile is missing or something like that
<Havenstance> if i chown the firefox dir in the home dir it launches and asks to create a profile
<mrgoodcat> oh. we use encrypted lvm and it works fine
<Havenstance> maybe its just having the home drive encrypted that gives it a problem then?
<Havenstance> that or I need to chown the dir and create the profile and let it do what it does
<mrgoodcat> not sure
<Havenstance> either way im not going to sweat the load too much, I have it working so that's really all that matters
<Havenstance> could have even been some corrupted packets in the first install
<Havenstance> its working now so that's all the matters. if I could use true crypt to encrypt the eventual storage drives that will be in this machine then i'll be happy with it which im sure I can do.
<mrgoodcat> so, in python you can take any object and just set any attribute even if it doesn't exist.(import os; os.sadf = 'hi'). is this intentional and/or useful for anything?
<cmaloney> yes
<cmaloney> yes
<cmaloney> and yes
<mrgoodcat> any trivial example?
<Havenstance> This firewall is going to upset me lol
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: you just showed one. :)
<mrgoodcat> i can't think of a situation where i'd need that
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: something wrong?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I think it's best summarised this way:
<cmaloney> Just because you lack imagination doesn't mean it's wrong. :)
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, not sure how to get the traffic from subnet 1 2 and 3 to run through the server but not across with the exception of subnet 1 i want it to be able to talk to all 3
<cmaloney> The non-cagey answer is because it's part of how objects are implemented in Python
<Havenstance> I know its a simple two click process im missing but its still a pain
<cmaloney> and it would take more code to prevent you from doing it than turning a blind eye to it.
<Havenstance> right now my addresses are number 10.0.1.x 10.0.2.x 10.0.3.x i want 1 to communicate with 2 and 3 but 2 and 3 to not communicate back to 1
<mrgoodcat> oh
<mrgoodcat> we don't have anything that fancy
<mrgoodcat> i'm sure it's probably possible
<Havenstance> honestly if i could keep the subnets from communicating with each other that'd be fine too
<Havenstance> because I only have one ip cam on that 2nd subnet which could be changed to the 1st without too much trouble
<Havenstance> brb net swap to make sure this is still working and I haven't b0rked something
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance2: you can do that with internal network rules
<Havenstance2> that's what im trying to figure out
<Havenstance2> I think everything routes through the firewall and that's what's allowing it
<Havenstance2> I don't mind having to change the IP cam
<Havenstance2> but I'm going to have 3 subnets and one of the 3 is for public use
<Havenstance2> I don't want them getting my samba shares
<Havenstance> which is configured within samba I know I can set ip rules there
<Havenstance> but I don't want that second subnet with someones public laptop accessing files that may or may not be shared from other PCs within the 1st subnet
<Havenstance> subnet 3 I don't much care about as its going to be largely unused its just there for expainsion's sake
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: iirc that would be in firwall rules -> packet fileter
<mrgoodcat> filter*
<Havenstance> yeah like I said I think i've got it now.
<Havenstance> once I figured out what I was looking at
<Havenstance> I created 3 network objects spanning the 3 subnets exception the server
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: if you're brave, run sudo iptables -L when you're done setting up all your rules
<mrgoodcat> zentyal sets up like a million rules
<mrgoodcat> not literally million but it's a lot
<Havenstance> Its not that I don't know in theory what im doing
<Havenstance> I just don't know how to do it in Linux :)
<Havenstance> I guess is the way to put it :)
<jcastro> http://www.mlive.com/business/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/03/new_alcohol_delivery_service_d.html
<mrgoodcat> i just listed all the rules on our networking server
<jcastro> YEAH!
<mrgoodcat> i was liek NOPE
<mrgoodcat> close bash prompt
<greg-g> jcastro: hah
<Havenstance> lol nice
<mrgoodcat> it may as well have output chinese
<mrgoodcat> cat /bin/random is more understandable
<Havenstance> Well I managed to get it working with OpenDNS
<Havenstance> So I'm getting somewhere :)
<mrgoodcat> good for you
<jrwren> having fun at work today.  CREATE EXTENSION plpythonu;
<Havenstance> :)
<Havenstance> I think this is easier then I'm making it out to be
<Havenstance> I created objects containing all 3 subnets in the network
<Havenstance> used ip span to span them all
<Havenstance> blocked all communication between ex traffic originating from sub2 bound for sub3 deny
<Havenstance> idk how its going to work but it makes sense in my head lol
<Havenstance> it works
<Havenstance> I'll be damned
<mrgoodcat> BAM
<mrgoodcat> zentyal is the shit man, what did i tell ya
<Havenstance> subnet 1 can ping 2 with no trouble
<Havenstance> subnet 2 can't even ping subnet 1
<Havenstance> :D
<Havenstance> ty man :)
<mrgoodcat> np
<mrgoodcat> glad to be of service
<Havenstance> in case you ever need to do the same
<Havenstance> the secret was in creating the network objects under Network > Objects
<Havenstance> added one for all 3 subnets with the address range of each
<mrgoodcat> yea we use network objects for subnetting
<Havenstance> then bound the rules that 2 couldn't talk to 3 or 1 and 3 couldn't talk to 1 or 2 but one could talk to everything with all services
<Havenstance> just like that about 10 clicks it works
<mrgoodcat> just never needed any rules specifically denying access in one direction and allowing in the other
<rick_h_> jrwren: I used that at morpace to prove we could do cool python based funcs and avoid writing C-based ones that took down the whole mysql server
<rick_h_> jrwren: I still failed to get postgres going :(
<jrwren> rick_h_: :(
<jrwren> rick_h_: we are postgresql only here.  no mysql :)
<greg-g> mariadb!
<greg-g> :P
<jrwren> its not the license why I dislike mysql so much. its the tech.
<greg-g> but new features!
<mrgoodcat> what are the biggest differences you care about?
<jrwren> constraints.
<jrwren> does mysql even enforce foreign key constraints by default, eyt?
<jrwren> postgis
<jrwren> gin indexes
<jrwren> plpythonu
<jrwren> all things mysql cannot do AFAIK
<jrwren> range types, array types
<jrwren> which means I can have array of ranges.
<jrwren> hstore
<jrwren> json
<jrwren> again, no mysql equivalents.
<jrwren> postgresql is REALLY FREAKING GOOD
<brousch> rick_h_: Ug, my brain is fried from these 6 gsoc submissions we got. I hope you don't explode
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, do you recall a packet capture in that zentyal interface?
<Havenstance> found one
<mrgoodcat> lol
<Havenstance> just a matter of rearranging some google keywords :)
<mrgoodcat> it has everything. you just have to find it
<mrgoodcat> you're taxing my memory man
<mrgoodcat> i haven't thought this much about our zentyal server since i set it up
<Havenstance> that's alright, I think I'm good now
<Havenstance> bout 30 seconds from being ready to deploy
<Havenstance> obviously its not going in until monday though
<mrgoodcat> now what happens if the hdd fails?
<mrgoodcat> or the power as happened to me today
<mrgoodcat> check out core -> system -> high availability
<mrgoodcat> saved my ass today
<cmaloney> brousch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwXKR9EWhXo
<cmaloney> I think this is right up your alley.
<brousch> thanks
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, i have no high availability under system here
<mrgoodcat> hrm. what version of zentyal/
<Havenstance> 3.4
<Havenstance> could it be im on the community edition?
<mrgoodcat> no that's not the problem
<mrgoodcat> http://labs.zentyal.org/high-availability-in-zentyal/
<Havenstance> i found it
<Havenstance> high avilability module under components
<Havenstance> wasn't installed
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: i have to get on my plane now but if you need help on monday let me know
<mrgoodcat> er tuesday
<mrgoodcat> i'll still be gone monday
<Havenstance> alrighty man, I think I'll be okay now :)
<Havenstance> Thank you for all your help this far though
<Havenstance> made this so much easier
<Havenstance> enjoy your trip
<mrgoodcat> no problem
<mrgoodcat> i didn't really do anything anyways except suggest zentyal
<mrgoodcat> peace
 * mrgoodcat leaves
<Havenstance> im thinking about doing the same here real soon lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-22
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Hello from the Science Olympiad.
<jrwren> playing with the kids, eh?
<cmaloney> Well, more helping JoDee out with the AStronomy section
<cmaloney> I'm her gopher.
<jrwren> fun!
<cmaloney> Yeah, at the moment I'm watcing students sweat and trying to set up a gitorious account.
<cmaloney> Hah, helps if I actually use gitorious.org and not gitorious.com. :)
<cmaloney> Yay, did some OSS coding here
<cmaloney> PLayed around with a package called Spigot which posts your blog entries to pump.io
<gamerchick02> you're still using pumpio?
<gamerchick02> i can't hit the "login" button to... log in.
<gamerchick02> won't register
<cmaloney> yeah, im usig identi.ca
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: you will need javascript
<gamerchick02> i thought i had it, i'm using chrome
<gamerchick02> i get the following when i try to use the remote subscribe: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7137194/
<rick_h_> gah, jalepeno in my eye, that'll leave a mark
<jrwren> i do that almost every year at harvest.
<jrwren> how bad rick_h_ ?
<jrwren> cry it out?
<rick_h_> eye wash in the sink
<rick_h_> thank you pull out sprayers in the kitchen
<rick_h_> I can open my eye again, burns a bit but hey I'm typing
<rick_h_> but wow, that was a good burn until the eyewash
<cmaloney> ow
<waf> a jalepeno is a lotta pain, yo.
<waf> ...i'll be here all night, folks
<wolfger> Heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-23
<mathomastech> Need an alternative cross platform python GUI toolkit for my app. GTK+ on windows is somewhat broken when I try to package it up as an executable. I'm seeing lots of different suggestions out there. Any recommendations?
<mathomastech> App is written in python. So something that has python bindings.
<mathomastech> I've heard about Kivy before, seems like it is being actively developed. Anyone use it?
<waf> brousch uses kivy. also consider just making it a webapp.
<mathomastech> I have been considering changing it to a web app. One of my goals with this project was to get more experience in doing cross platform native apps.
<greg-g> interesting, lastpass got a new design
<rick_h_> greg-g: another one?
<rick_h_> greg-g: hmm, looks the same
<greg-g> oh, I just got it I guess
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Afternoon even. :)
<gamerchick02> howdy cmaloney
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> sunday interview time ugh
<gamerchick02> interview time?
<rick_h_> yea, sunday interviews because meeting up during the week is hard for some I guess
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Double ugh
<jrwren> like, work interview?!?  wow.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea
<jrwren> if they can't make time for an interview, how are they going to make time to do their actual job?
<gamerchick02> +1 jrwren
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, well the time was going to be end of the week. So either sunday or friday after
<rick_h_> so figured I'd try this
<rick_h_> of course now realizing they didn't get the calendar invite because the email was truncated one letter short
<rick_h_> so now I'm sitting here wondering if it'll happen at all
<rick_h_> doh
<jrwren> gah. bummer
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's no fun at all.
<cmaloney> Debating on whether I should get another M310 mouse or a Bluetooth adapter so i can use the BT mouse I already have.
<rick_h_> heh, we just ran back from the county park. We were going to walk and then head back but the boy found a playground and I realized "crap we've got to go" and had to chuck it out with the boy on my shoulders
<rick_h_> always vote for consistancy
<cmaloney> YEah, and I have the same M310 mouse at work
<cmaloney> but it seems Logitech mice all develop the same clicking problem.
<rick_h_> hmm, no problems with my trackball :P
<cmaloney> That's because you own a trackball so you barely use the "mouse". :)
<cmaloney> I'd learn keyboard shortcuts if I had to use that too. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<Havenstance_> afternoon folks
<gamerchick02> howdy Havenstance_
<Havenstance> hey gamerchick02 how goes the warcraft adventure?
<gamerchick02> hah, i need to log in over there! i'm lvl 90 on my main and looking forward to finishing leveling my monk. :)
<Havenstance> yeah I have 2 90s a druid and a huntard
<Havenstance> gamerchick02, what server do you play on?
<rick_h_> ugh painful
<gamerchick02> Baelgun. i'm in To The Rescue, Havenstance_
<gamerchick02> sorry was making pizza! :)
<Havenstance> its cool lol, I was logged into WoW for a few minutes. I play on Black Dragonflight
<gamerchick02> nice
<Havenstance> yeah until your walking along and bam you get ganked by 5 guys
<gamerchick02> that's a PVP server yeah?
<Havenstance> yeah
<gamerchick02> i don't play on those because it won't be fun for me
<Havenstance> its not too bad now that I have the 90s for the most part I can defend against most attacks
<Havenstance> especially with my hunter
<gamerchick02> nice
<Havenstance> its just timeless still sucks
<Havenstance> whoever thought of those bloody coins should be kicked in the groins
<gamerchick02> yeah
<cmaloney> Went over to Microcenter and bought a new mouse
<rick_h_> cmaloney: woot
<Havenstance> what'd you pickup?
<cmaloney> and a Bluetooth adapter so should I decide to get a different mouse I could at least see if it worked or not
<cmaloney> Logitech M310
<cmaloney> Same as the other one
<Havenstance> hm, I got the M510
<cmaloney> but apparently Logitech is packing them with Nano receivers
<cmaloney> So they'll only support one device at a time.
<Havenstance> k350, and G13
<cmaloney> Which is fine by me
<Havenstance> aren't those unifying compatible?
<cmaloney> They are, but the receiver isn't.
<Havenstance> if your not using the old one you could use the unifying reciever with it
<Havenstance> if its a big issue :)
<gamerchick02> ugh one device at a time
<gamerchick02> i'm using wired all the way... Steelseries
<Havenstance> Wires annoy me :)
<gamerchick02> and also a Corsair.
<gamerchick02> i switch off
<Havenstance> unless its for my network
<gamerchick02> they're not that big of a deal for me i guess
<Havenstance> I have a 13 month old
<Havenstance> wires=the devil
<rick_h_> not working < wires :P
<gamerchick02> ah makes sense then
<Havenstance> I havent had that problem though
<gamerchick02> no kids no pets just me
<gamerchick02> wires as much as i want! :)
<Havenstance> I haven't even had to change batteries in forever
<Havenstance> gamerchick02, I was thinking about getting the Razr Naga for the WoW game. But I already have a g13 so i figured the extra buttons would be pointless lol
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> i'm actually getting rid of my Razer Deathadder
<gamerchick02> or at least i want to
<gamerchick02> it's the 3.5g edition and it works well, i just prefer the steelseries and corsair.
<gamerchick02> i hear good things about the g13
<Havenstance> yeah, I need to get a new gaming setup. But I need a new board and all that jazz too
<Havenstance> I got my eyes on the Asrock Fatality series Mobo
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> upgrades, yes. :)
<cmaloney> Funny thing is I had to think a lot before picking up what I did
<cmaloney> and even half-considered a trackball.
<cmaloney> But I figured I'd never hear the end of it from rick_h_ .
<gamerchick02> hah
<gamerchick02> trackballs. i used one for awhile
<gamerchick02> it was good
<gamerchick02> i prefer a mouse
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm a fan of mice as well
<cmaloney> Though it was tempting
<Havenstance> i like big mice
<Havenstance> the tiny laptop ones bug me
<wolfger> ...and he cannot lie?
<wolfger> yeah, laptop mice are for people with tiny hands
<Havenstance> I struggle with the one I have now and most people say that it feels to big in their hands
<Havenstance> I want one of those transformer looking mice though.
<gamerchick02> the RAT?
<gamerchick02> sorry now watching Tin Tin. good film
<Havenstance> Yes, I need a RAT :)
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> i plugged in the corsair
<gamerchick02> raptor m30
<wolfger> Tin Tin turned out to be good? I loved reading Tin Tin as a child, but I was filled with too much doubt to go see the movie. I should rent it.
<wolfger> ...and now I have to go google the RAT
<gamerchick02> hah wolfger
<gamerchick02> long time no see
<gamerchick02> and yeah the film is good
<gamerchick02> it's a fun romp through adventure
<gamerchick02> and the RAT is some sort of expensive customizable mouse. i like my steelseries sensei RAW and my corsair raptor m30
<wolfger> The rat has adjustable everything... including weight. That's just a touch extreme.
<gamerchick02> it's for Xtreme gamers
<gamerchick02> i guess if you want something that you can change up all the time, then it's good
<gamerchick02> i *just* switched out my Sensei RAW for the Raptor and i'll this one for awhile. i'm trying to decide if I want to take the Raptor to work...
<Havenstance> Youtube Uhohbro, Probably the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen lol
<rick_h_> cmaloney: in time...always convert in time
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> I don't think you want a RAT.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-16
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<rick_h_> alive and kicking
<brousch> Hm, apparently nobody has wireless coverage at the Grand Canyon and Death Valley
<brousch> This will be an interesting vacation
<rick_h_> hmm, imagine that lol
<cmaloney> brousch: I'm sure Verizon has you covered
<rick_h_> speaking of wireless coverage, got to teach the wife an important phone lesson as her phone was lost/taken at a birthday party yesterday
<cmaloney> with their "Death Valley plan"
<rick_h_> let's just say she's running with a encrypted device with a pin enabled now
<cmaloney> rick_h_: What the fuck?
<cmaloney> Yeah, pin at least
<cmaloney> Which is partly why I rock an older device. :)
<rick_h_> yea, she complained that she'd have to unlock it in the car, but now that she's got BT in the car she doesn't
<rick_h_> oh I bet hers was older than yours
<rick_h_> it was an old moto mini
<rick_h_> in a giant otterbox case
<rick_h_> there was no reason to take it
<cmaloney> Epic 4G Touch.
<rick_h_> but as a doc she's got a ton of crap on there that makes me :(
<cmaloney> Yeah, likely misplaced.
<cmaloney> Oh noes.
<cmaloney> I'm sure I know the answer, but did she have remote wipe installed?
<cmaloney> or set up rather?
<brousch> Google has remote location on almost every device now. You can find her phone
<mrgoodcat> she shouldn't be using her phone in her car without BT anyways right? :P
<brousch> https://www.google.com/android/devicemanager
<mrgoodcat> actually in troy you can be given a ticket for using your phone in any way
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, but she never enabled it
<rick_h_> brousch: she actually made me enable the G+ location tracking on my end, but never did it on her end
<brousch> Seems like it's on by default now
<rick_h_> cmaloney: no remote wipe, though will be
<cmaloney> Yes Officer I'm using my watch. :)
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, but not on her old phone
<rick_h_> it's getting setup differently this time :)
<brousch> Darn
<rick_h_> she's using my old motox for now
<brousch> Maybe that's why they stole it ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> honestly we think it was just kids. Bunch of 3-6yr olds
<brousch> Wat? no Ubu phone for her?!
<rick_h_> hah, I don't have one of those
<cmaloney> If it's 3-6 y/os it's probably half-way to the Detroit River.
<cmaloney> "Water go down the hoooole"
<rick_h_> yea, that was my 'joke' that I was told was not very funny
<cmaloney> rick_h_: When you're not in "Freak-out" mode it's pretty funny
<rick_h_> yea, I guess timing is most of comedy :P
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> "too soon". ;)
<brousch> Which is less evil these days: ATT or VZN?
<rick_h_> hmm, tough call
<rick_h_> the thing is that vzw works more places and is faster so I take their evil with my goodies
<rick_h_> though my phone is on t-mo now
<rick_h_> but keep my mifi on vzw so it always works
<cmaloney> Yeah, I think it's more a question "who is more evil: Satan or beelzebub"
<rick_h_> I will say, after I finally found a way to get a person on the phone last night
<rick_h_> vzw support rocked it out of the park
<rick_h_> taking a sim card from my mifi, moving her phone number over to that sim, and helping it get setup in my old motox all over the phone in about 15min
<rick_h_> so from her phone going gone to her getting calls again was around 45min which was sweet
<rick_h_> <3 sim cards
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That is pretty cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<brousch> Is it a sign of old age if I complain about how all smartphones are gigantic these days?
<jrwren> brousch: vzn is less evil, only because I'm a shareholder :p
<jrwren> brousch: Credo is the ultimate in less evil.
<brousch> I'm sure I'm a shareholder in both of them via my 401k
<jrwren> brousch: its a sign of old age if you do complain about being able to read the disply or press the "buttons"
<brousch> If I buy the same phones and same plans on ATT and VZW, they come out to a less than $50 difference after 2 years.
<cmaloney> brousch: AT&T is pretty much evil incarnate
<cmaloney> brousch: VZW is also evil incarnate but has a better network
<cmaloney> so in your dealings with the devil I'd say VZW is offering a better deal for your souol
<brousch> I love Ting, but Sprint's network is garbage incarnate
<cmaloney> the only reason I'd go with AT&T is if you valie GSM
<cmaloney> They have a GSM option, though it's in beta
<brousch> Do I look like a Communist?!
<cmaloney> brousch: https://ting.com/shop/gsmSIM
<cmaloney> I think they've partnered with T-Mobile
<cmaloney> They're not saying directly bu
<jrwren> no Credo users?
<cmaloney> What is Credo?
<cmaloney> Only other MVNO that I'm aware of is Consumer Wireless (?) and that's because my parents got sucked into that.
<jjesse> wow almost afternoon already
<cmaloney> Yeah, where has the day gone
<greg-g> just started
<jjesse> nice
<jjesse> i'm working with customers on both coasts this week :( so working EST and PST a bit
<jjesse> going to be a long week
<greg-g> well, I've been here since 8, but the budget meeting for next year just started.... weee (well, the second one we're having on the topic)
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> Nothing like talking about wooden nickels
<jrwren> jjesse: 12hr days shall be your norm!
<jrwren> jjesse: hope you bill hourly :p
<jjesse> jrwren:  yes i bill hourly but different customers
<jrwren> jjesse: even better!
<cscheib> greetings.  For those interested in Puppet config management, I've started a Detroit Puppet User Group.  Sorry to spam, just trying to get the word out and didn't make it to the last MUG meeting
<cscheib> jrwren / jcastro: lunch this week?
<jcastro> cscheib, oh cool, for sure, any day but Friday, also I sold my car so I need a ride lol
<cmaloney> jcastro: That doesn't seem sustainable.
<rick_h_> jcastro: no ride?
<jcastro> I am currently inbetween cars is a better statement
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> do I know cscheib ?
<jcastro> I mean, we have a car, it's just Jill's
<jcastro> yeah
<rick_h_> lol
<cscheib> p.s. for the few that may remember me, I used to go by schweeb
<rick_h_> aaaah
<cmaloney> jcastro: That's your problem. You need to be in the car, not between them
<jcastro> my lease was up
<cmaloney> jcastro: And they let you out of the dealership without a new one?
<cmaloney> tsk tsk
<cmaloney> bad Salesman
<cmaloney> 40 lashes.
<jcastro> oh he wanted to sell me a new one
<cmaloney> ;)
<jcastro> but I am spending the money on the basement
<jcastro> also, they don't have $5k miles/year leases, heh
<cmaloney> yeah, I think you need a go-cart.
<jcastro> I kind of want a moped, but winter
<cmaloney> http://ezgo.com/
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> http://ezgo.com/Home/Personal/Terrain.aspx
<cmaloney> I think that might make it over a light dusting.
<jcastro> the few times I do need a ride, Uber/Lyft are here
<cscheib> jcastro: which # do you use these days?  I have one ending in 06 and one ending in 23
<jcastro> 06
<jcastro> I will probably get a Fiesta or Jetta or something in the summer
<cmaloney> I have a Jetta
<cmaloney> still have a jetta rather
<cscheib> gf has a Jetta... get the Fiesta
<cmaloney> !!!!
<rick_h_> lol
<jcastro> <3 jettas tho
<cscheib> maint on teh Jettas is a fucking whore
<cscheib> if you lease and don't go anywhere... whatever... but if you keep your vehicle...
<cmaloney> cscheib: I'm under 40K miles so I hope you're experience is an anomaly.
<rick_h_> yea, maint on anything like that sucks
<rick_h_> but you do get some years free :)
<cscheib> they wanted like $400 to replace spark plugs
<rick_h_> yea, once the warranty is done go elsewhere.
<cmaloney> As long as the transmission doesn't fall off like every single Ford vehicle I've owned... ;)
<cscheib> my Lincolns have been smooth sailing... but, I only keep em util 100k mi
<greg-g> newb
<jcastro> My Ford Ranger was a best
<greg-g> I looooooved my ranger
<jcastro> 125k+ and all I did was put fluids in it
 * rick_h_ hated his ranger
<greg-g> so sad I hit that deer going 75
<jcastro> then like all small trucks went extinct at once
<rick_h_> hah, they're coming back
<greg-g> I kinda want a Nissan Frontier 4-door
<rick_h_> someone was even saying the canyon's are coming with out inline 4 and 5cyl diesel options soon
<greg-g> small truck with 4-doors is awesome
<jcastro> the canyon isn't small tho
<rick_h_> big truck with 4 door is awesome :)
<rick_h_> it's smaller than a 1500
<rick_h_> that is today's 'small truck'
<rick_h_> all the things are so huge now
<jcastro> yeah, like I am saying, small trucks went extinct
<jcastro> which is sad, I kind of want a ranger
<rick_h_> ugh, hated that thing so much. it couldn't get down a dirt road without getting redirected by every pebble
<cscheib> I think they may be coming out with a new Jeep Comanche
<greg-g> what year?
<jcastro> I live in civilization, where paved roads are a thing
<rick_h_> greg-g: this was a 90s era...98 or 99?
<rick_h_> jcastro: :P
<greg-g> rick_h_: same as mine, I thought it was a fun drive
<rick_h_> greg-g: I turned in that lease and got the outback and thenfell in love
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> greg-g: so to me that's the thing that got me into something really nice
<gamerchick02> howdy ubuntu peeps
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-17
<brousch> http://www.mlive.com/business/detroit/index.ssf/2015/03/legoland_coming_to_great_lakes.html
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<SneakyPhil> hello again
<ColonelPanic001> hi.
<jjesse> hello
<_stink_> HI
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> afternoon
<rick_h_> I can't help but see stuff like this and think "damn, I thought 2fa was bad. Sorry guys, have to go shave before I can login to the meeting"  http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/17/your-windows-10-password-will-be-your-face/
<SneakyPhil> lol
<_stink_> can i use my constipated face?
<jrwren> a face isn't a password, it is a username.
<jrwren> security fail.
<rick_h_> jrwren: +1
<jrwren> what does it do with twins?
<rick_h_> hey, account sharing finally works!
<jrwren> hahahahaha
<cscheib> lulz
<rick_h_> heh, kind of cool idea but not sure I've got the spare usb ports for keeping brightness settings in place http://www.hughski.com/colorhugals.html
<cmaloney> jrwren: ++
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That might be interesting for the desktop machine
 * cmaloney is listening to Professor Kliq - Wire & Flashing Lights
<cmaloney> <3
<cmaloney> I love it when: A file that normally shows up Monday and gets emailed out on Tuesday doesn't cause anyone concern, but when the file shows up on Tuesday (late) suddenly everyone is concerned if the process is running
<cmaloney> Sadly it takes the same amount of time whether it's Monday or Tuesday
<jcastro> CRAIG
<jcastro> CRAIG
<jcastro> cmaloney, I LOVE YOU
<cscheib> jcastro: been hitting the sauce already?
<jcastro> cscheib, he sent me a very cool birthday present
<cscheib> aha
<jcastro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/crkozy5y6fjgimy/2015-03-17%2015.51.19.jpg?dl=0
<cscheib> nice
<cmaloney> jcastro: :)
<gamerchick02> howdy ubuntu peeps!
<_stink_> hello!
<gamerchick02> hwody _stink_ what's news?
<gamerchick02> i'm really liking the XPS 13
<mrgoodcat> ModelFactoryFactoryCreator.getInstance(ModelFactory.class);
<mrgoodcat> dear god
<mrgoodcat> this was actually in code
<mrgoodcat> i don't have to touch it thank god but what kind of professor does that?
<greg-g> welcome to java good sir
<gamerchick02> i don't code and i think that looks horrendous
<mrgoodcat> it is horrendous
<gamerchick02> the only java i need is in my tall cup (with some cream and sugar please)
<gamerchick02> oh and on my poor work laptop because i have to use codep that runs in an old copy of java
<_stink_> mrgoodcat: haha, that is awesome.
<gamerchick02> mrgoodcat, an evil professor?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-18
<mrgoodcat> its like a hyperbole of itself
<gamerchick02> yes!
<_stink_> gamerchick02: where are you working these days again?
<_stink_> you're an engineer, right?
<gamerchick02> yes, i'm at Chrysler
<_stink_> cool
<_stink_> working on anything fun?
<_stink_> like
<_stink_> flyin cars
<gamerchick02> mechanical engineer, doing configs and systems stuff. my ubuntu bugsquad stuff has come in handy with reporting on system errors
<_stink_> gotcha
<gamerchick02> hah no. inter-regional vehicles that are supposed to be built in 4 regions, serviced in any of the 4 regions, and all look the same
<gamerchick02> technically, you should be able to buy a M Jeep CSUV in China (LHD) and bring it to the US and be able to have it serviced.
<_stink_> ooo
<_stink_> what's the import tax
<gamerchick02> we will see if it works
<gamerchick02> well it makes no sense for you to buy it in China and import it since we will have them available for the US, Canada, and Mexico markets.
<gamerchick02> built in NAFTA
<_stink_> sure, but at the same real dollar price?
<gamerchick02> so yeah, it's a lot of wrangling and getting things working
<gamerchick02> probably. i dunno. there are different engines and options for each market
<gamerchick02> so... for China you can get a 2.0 turbo diesel but it's not available for the US market
<gamerchick02> *shrug*
<gamerchick02> like as an example
<gamerchick02> i'd assume a similar specced model would be the same price in each region
<_stink_> ah ok
<gamerchick02> i just work on a small part of the project
<cmaloney> Evening
<gamerchick02> howdy cmaloney
<_stink_> yo
<gamerchick02> ugh nothing on tv
<cmaloney> J is trying to bring out her telescope for the first time this season
<gamerchick02> ooo
<cmaloney> Dammit, I'm getting sick and tired of the music industry releasing better sounding digital audio tied to LP releases
<cmaloney> 2112: AAC files aren't brickwalled like they are on the "Deluxe" CD release.
<cmaloney> Getting tired of CDs getting a bad rap because producers / mixers are fucking idiots when it comes to digital music
<cmaloney> I swear it's like copy protection or some shit
<gamerchick02> so... you're saying you can only get the higher fidelity files if you buy the LP with a digital download card?
<gamerchick02> but you don't get that with the CD?
<cmaloney> Yes
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> that is kind of crap
<cmaloney> They didn't brickwall the audio files, but they did on the CD
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> brickwall?
<gamerchick02> (sorry i might not be up on all this terminology)
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
<gamerchick02> ah ok yes
<cmaloney> http://kindlecoverdisasters.tumblr.com/
<gamerchick02> da fuq?
<gamerchick02> oh my gosh
<gamerchick02> that earns a "follow" from me
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's pretty brutal
<gamerchick02> that's so bad it's good
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Morning morning
<ColonelPanic001> it is only one morning at a time
<ColonelPanic001> which is fortunate, because one at a time is all I can handle.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> What the fuck
<cmaloney> http://lwn.net/Articles/637120/rss
<cmaloney> "Utah software companyâs decade-old suit against IBM revived"
<cmaloney> Three guesses which one.
<cmaloney> https://imgflip.com/i/izysy
<greg-g> does this mean we'll get Pam back?
<cmaloney> Sadly I think so
<jrwren> what does that mean? "get pam back?"
<greg-g> the SCO blog run by a person named Pam $somethingIforgot
<jrwren> ah
<cmaloney> groklaw
<greg-g> groklaw
<cmaloney> pam groklaw
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> man, took me forever to remember that (I didn't, google helped)
<jrwren> the vmware case will be more interesting
<cmaloney> the vmware case was actually started in this decade
<greg-g> the Conservancy one?
<greg-g> yeah
<cmaloney> and relates to something in the 21st century
<cmaloney> not sure the same can be said of the SCO case.
<greg-g> yeah, I'm actually surprised the statue of limitations isn't preventing the SCO one
<cscheib> jrwren / jcastro: I has interview tomorrow morning... can you guys do a late lunch, like 1?
<jcastro> I have a daily call at 3
<jcastro> so I should be good
<jrwren> jcastro: you taking bus or did you get a car?
<jrwren> cscheib: where are we meeting?
<jcastro> I am hoping one of you pick me up, heh.
<jrwren> that would make it a 2hr lunch for me. I can't take that long.
<cscheib> I may be able to, but can't guarantee right now - interview kinda fucked up my morning scenario
<cscheib> I can drop him off
<jcastro> jrwren, where do you live in relation to me?
<jrwren> jcastro: north side. Plymouth Rd and Huron Pkway are nearby.
<jrwren> jcastro: i dunno, maybe traffic down there isn't htat bad that time of day?
<jcastro> I'm not in AA proper so it's never too bad
<jrwren> ha!
<cscheib> jcastro: PM me address, and I'll see if/how I can accommodate transport
<jrwren> its all good if we don't stray too far from jcastro's house for lunch.  I propose bread basket or Tmaz.
<jcastro> which way are you coming from?
<jcastro> I'm almost right off of 94
<jcastro> tmaz sounds awesome
<jcastro> there's maize too if you want more sit-down mexican
<jrwren> and late lunch at tmaz is great becuase they get busy at noon hour
<jrwren> ooh! I've never done Maize, lets do that.
<cmaloney> jcastro: I think I know where you are.
<cmaloney> Over by the Ypsi library-ish?
<jrwren> cmaloney: he is right by meijer
<jcastro> I am not in ypsi despite having a ypsi address
<cmaloney> Ah, OK
<cmaloney> SO the other way.
<cmaloney> used to love going to the ypsi library. Nice place.
<cscheib> jcastro: as long as I don't have to stop at my customer in A2 first, I should be able to swing through and pick you up... that is right on my way
<jcastro> perfect
 * jcastro picked this location due to ease of access
<cscheib> heh, I kinda picked my location due to the opposite
<cscheib> never really hear someone say "I was just driving through Grosse Pointe"
<jcastro> "I saw that place in a movie"
<cscheib> heh
<cmaloney> Now if we could only get jcastro to say "I was driving through the Royal Oak area..."
<cmaloney> ;)
<jcastro> I've been trying to get up there for 3 months
<jcastro> construction in the basement etc. have basically got me stuck here all winter
<cmaloney> jcastro: Try harder. :)
<cmaloney> ugh, though re: construction
<jcastro> well, help me win the lottery!
<cmaloney> jcastro: That's easy
<cmaloney> Here's my simple tip for winning the lottery
<cscheib> jcastro: Trevor came to my puppet UG, haven't seen him since Forgue lived in town
<cmaloney> 1) Choose several numbers in the range of the balls for the lottery
<cmaloney> 2) buy ticket
<cmaloney> 3)
<cmaloney> 4) Profit
<jcastro> cscheib, yeah I talk to him pretty regularly now
<jcastro> He doesn't work at NAB anymore so he doesn't hate life
<cscheib> yea, we discussed that
<cscheib> haha
<cmaloney> NAB = ?
<cscheib> I think when I told him that Rick made Nick cry, he felt better about his stay there
<jcastro> cmaloney, http://www.northamericanbancard.com/
<cmaloney> Ah
<cscheib> i.e. the place that gave me enough experience to make teh monies elsewhere
<cmaloney> Only NAB I know of is National Association of Broadcasters
<jcastro> cmaloney, here's how behind I am
<jrwren> AA is the event horizon of a black hole. Once you get here you are stuck adn cannot leave.
<jcastro> my birthday party will be in june
<cmaloney> jcastro: Wow
<cmaloney> Though we just celebrated JoDee's birthday with her brother last weekend
<jcastro> noice
<cmaloney> Her b-day is feb 14th
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> it's like, if you're so delayed, you might as well wait for the nice weather
<cmaloney> So yeah, we know about the whole "behind" thing. :)
<jcastro> I am just tired of the house being a revolving door of construction
<jcastro> soon though craig, soon.
<jcastro> we will rock to rush on a 120" screen
<cmaloney> And all this time I've settled for 32"
<cmaloney> That will be awesome. :)
<cscheib> cmaloney: if you want to catch jorge's attention, and possibly get him out of the house... mention Rush, Metallica, Rocksmith, or tacos
<cmaloney> cscheib: You must be new here. :)
<cscheib> not really
<cscheib> just not-recent
<cscheib> I used to be a MOTU
<cscheib> I don't know if they even exist any more
<jrwren> they do.
<cmaloney> As soon as jcastro realized I revered Rush we have had long conversations about Rush
<jrwren> want to be one again? I have a 50 package wish list :)
<cscheib> jrwren: nah.  not unless someone wants to pay me $75/hr or so
<cmaloney> As soon as jcastro realized I liked the synth-period of Rush I think we became blood brothers.
<cmaloney> ;)
<cscheib> $30 security camera so I can see when the dog wants outside is the best investment I've made in a while
<cmaloney> nice
<jcastro> I got an expensive dropcam and it doesn't do much. :(
<rick_h_> heh, just taught the dog to paw the door
<rick_h_> works for out and back in
<cscheib> he paws the door after a while
<cscheib> jcastro: yea, I couldn't stomach the cost of a dropcam
<jcastro> I got it on sale, even then
<cscheib> the dlink camera line is pretty cheap and fairly capable
<cscheib> I've gotta figure out how to do mjpeg over https, though
<cscheib> http://amzn.com/B00452V66G
<cscheib> may get a couple of the day/night ones and record em to a USB drive somewhere
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Revell-Monogram-Missile-Plastic-Building/dp/B00BXP80DK
<cmaloney> And people say I'm hard to shop for
<cmaloney> (also: WTF?)
<cmaloney> Anyone have anything that uses mini HDMI that needs cables to convert to regular HDMI?
<cmaloney> I just bought an adapter / cable and realized I need micro instead.
<jcastro> I didn't know hdmi came in mini and micro
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> had an hdmi port on my N10 I used to watch offline stuff in the camper
<rick_h_> and hotels
<rick_h_> but now the N9 killed it :(
<cscheib> some of the embedded platforms are using it, I think
<cscheib> ODROID C3 or whatever
<jcastro> you can do chromecast instead though right rick_h_?
<rick_h_> jcastro: not if there's no wifi
<jcastro> oh, duh
<rick_h_> jcastro: that's the thing, you have to get them on the same wifi network to work I think
<rick_h_> and yea, can't use offline tablet content
<cmaloney> So anywho, inquire within if you need htem
<cmaloney> Will cost me about half of the refund to ship it back to Amazon.
<cmaloney> I swear every time I use rst I have to look things up for simple things like "outline"
<cmaloney> As soon as Sphinx supports Markdown I'll be happy. :)
<mthx> Yikes, appearently yahoo has a groups/mailing list service like google groups
<cmaloney> mthx: They've had one longer than Google Groups
<cmaloney> Unfortunately it also sucks pretty hard
<mthx> Never knew that. And it requires a yahoo account :(
<brousch> It used to be more open, but sticks ads in every email
<cmaloney> Yep
<cmaloney> brousch: That's where Yahoo! makes their revenue
<cmaloney> on monetizing long-forgotten services that people still use for some odd-ball reason
<brousch> It is so crass
<greg-g> parenting groups are all on yahoo groups :/
<mthx> Now I need to come up with another clever username. *sigh*
<cmaloney> see also: my mother who insists on using Yahoo as a homepage.
<brousch> Like every email from Gib with those damn fool ads in them
<cmaloney> greg-g: Several RPG groups are on Yahoo! Groups.
<cmaloney> brousch: That's juno
<brousch> Does he know that happens?
<cmaloney> and I swear I will pay him to stop using that fucking service.
<cmaloney> I'll register "gibisawesome.com" and create a mail account for him if he'll agree to stop using juno
<brousch> hehe
<mthx> Hmm, so much fail. It requires an SMS verification to validate the account, but claims my phone number is not valid.
<cmaloney> open offer, no expiration date
<cmaloney> mthx: Yeah, Yahoo! is a PITA with their accounts
<mthx> Hmm, appearently its because it's a google voice number, and that'
<mthx> thats not supported...
<cmaloney> Yeah, Google Voice isn't true SMS
<cmaloney> not sure of the particulars, but it's never worked for stuff like Paypal
<mthx> Well, I just looked at my phones carrier number for the first time.
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> wow
<jcastro> lots of SMS things don't work with gvoice numbers
<mrgoodcat> anybody here have any experience using/setting up apache kafka?
<cmaloney> Saw a presentation on it at PyOhio
<cmaloney> That's about as far as I got with it
<cscheib> rabbitmq or activemq seem to be more popular
<cscheib> although, that doesn't necessarily mean anything
<derekv2> kafka is not really a competitor to rabbitmq et al
<cmaloney> iirc it was more like Redis
<cmaloney> in some perverse way.
<cscheib> ah.
<cscheib> I try to stay out of the middleware business anyway, heh
<derekv2> it's a message queue designed to process and hold massive amounts of data for both realtime processing and offline processing
<derekv2> the main difference is the later part.  you can replay the queue
<cscheib> especially since in MI, most of my customers are running IBM or Oracle crap
<cmaloney> ah, I'm misremembering then
<derekv2> i think linkedin pushes all it's data through it
<cmaloney> ah, I was wondering why I was only hearing magnatune tracks when I hit "Random Albums" on my Squeezebox
<derekv2> 100% of everthing goes into kafka, then subscribers process the stream however makes sense for them
<cmaloney> Apparently I set the library view (7.9 feature) to just the Magnatune albums
<cmaloney> which wasn't bad, but threw me for a bit of a loop
<cmaloney> derekv2: That makes sense
<cmaloney> Since most of LinkedIN stuff is only private if you aren't logged in. ;)
<derekv2> i guess the point is that any data they have just goes into it like a central bus... server logs, click information, whatever
<derekv2> conceptually, databases already keep logs (for a bit), and a (complete) log could be used to recreate the entire state of the database,
<derekv2> so instead we invert things and create one massive log for everything, then you can do whatever you want with it, process in realtime with storm, or push into hadoop for MR,
<derekv2> keep the resume/profile document store updated obviously, etc et
<derekv2> http://www.se-radio.net/2015/02/episode-219-apache-kafka-with-jun-rao/
<derekv2> anyways i'm trying to get my head around this stuff
<derekv2> he was saying how rabbitmq et doesn't really persist the queue
<derekv2> kafka does
<derekv2> mrgoodcat: anyways i haven't used it but i was reading about it
<jrwren> derekv2: yeah, and kafka is like 10X faster than rabbitmq :)
<jrwren> rabbitmq is much more configurable.
<cmaloney> RabbitMQ is from a different era iirc.
<derekv2> also relevent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU9hR3kiOK0
<cmaloney> http://www.quora.com/RabbitMQ-vs-Kafka-which-one-for-durable-messaging-with-good-query-features
<derekv2> though it's more about samza
<derekv2> rabbitmq sounds like OTP
<greg-g> between 9am and 2:30 (last 1:1 starting now) I've had a total of 25 minutes not in meetings.
<greg-g> (pacific time, obvs)
<rick_h_> greg-g: :)
<greg-g> Thankfully Carrie brought me a sandwich to scarf down in the 3 minutes I had between meetins around lunch time
<jrwren> you managers get what you ask for afaiac :p
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> the thing is you start out with only a handful of meeting
<rick_h_> then they add on and on over time
<greg-g> meetings beget meetings
<rick_h_> at first I had team 1-1s, and then a manager meeting.
<greg-g> I've started to be a bit more strict and start email threads before meetings on the topci so I can hopefully turn a meeting into an email
 * greg-g waits patiently for his last 1:1 to show up
<greg-g> there she is
<greg-g> annnnnd, done
<rick_h_> lol yay!
<cmaloney> Woo woo
<greg-g> ahh, lunch break
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-19
<gamerchick02> howdy ubuntu peeps
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> from CHC
<gamerchick02> i'm in my pjs.
<gamerchick02> whoa my lag is out of this world. i wonder if my internet is wonko
<gamerchick02> rebooting the router. bbiab. yay.
<gamerchick02> that's way better
<cmaloney> Evening
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<_stink_> yo
<SneakyPhil> hey
<cmaloney> http://thedailywtf.com/articles/the-record-setting-score
<cmaloney> ^^ Hope you're not working here today.
<SneakyPhil> quiet working conditions lol, I wish
<cmaloney> SneakyPhil: At least we have headphones
<cmaloney> and work doesn't mind me using a SSH tunnel for music. :)
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> my work conditions are usually VERY quiet.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Well, you have more control over your work conditions. :)
<cmaloney> Mine are usually quiet
<cmaloney> but I can control the environment to a point
<jcastro> cscheib, jrwren: we still on for today?
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> jcastro: where is Maize?
<jcastro> washtenaw
<jcastro> washtenaw and golfside basically
<jrwren> cool, I can get there reasonably fast.
<jrwren> maps says 15m
<jrwren> huh, maps says 3more min for your place. I guess you are close :)
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> it's next to the exit though, so you should be able to just hop down 23
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> although maps says its only 2min more to take huron river drive, which I may do, because that is a pretty drive.
<jcastro> indeed
<SneakyPhil> ^
 * SneakyPhil lived on huron river drive growing up
<jrwren> SneakyPhil: no way!
<SneakyPhil> yeah, but down in Rockwood
<jrwren> SneakyPhil: are you still in AA?
<jrwren> oh, I don't know where that is :)
<SneakyPhil> I am not, Dearborn Heights now
<SneakyPhil> Rockwood is next to Brownstown/Trenton/Gibraltar/Flat Rock
<SneakyPhil> but the entire huron river drive from there to AA is awesome
<jrwren> oh, yes I do. There is an old police station at the corner of Will Carlton and Telegraph in Flat Rock :)
<jrwren> which is pretty close.
<SneakyPhil> yup
<jrwren> Did you ever go to the game area and hunt?
<SneakyPhil> I have not. I've never been hunting but my fiancee and I have been been going to the shooting range recently
<cscheib> jcastro jrwren: I'm in... gotta run and take a shower, and then I can do pretty much whenever (I'm roughly 50 mins from State/94, so 40ish from jorge)
<jcastro> the eearlier the better for me
<jcastro> but I am free until 3pm
<cscheib> when all's said and done, I can probably be by your place around noon
<cscheib> finishing my coffee before my shower, but should be out of here around 11
<cscheib> jcastro: leaving now... so be there around noon.  I'll call in a few to verify you got this
<jcastro> ack
<jrwren> if cscheib is leaving now, I think 12:30 will be late. Maize at 12:15ish?
<jcastro> yeah
<brousch> If this is true, wow http://www.phonearena.com/news/400000-apps-in-the-App-Store-have-never-been-downloaded-says-report_id32943
<cmaloney> http://music.kimiko-piano.com/album/bach-well-tempered-clavier-book-1
<cmaloney> brousch: That doesn't surprise me
<brousch> Even my crappy apps on Android have a hundred downloads
<cmaloney> Well, that's because you have people who care about you
<brousch> To have so many apps that no one has ever downloaded?!
<brousch> Even your own mother doesn't try it!
<cmaloney> And hey, your app did something
<brousch> But if it doesn nothing, it should be denied by Apple
<brousch> Isn't that point of app review?
<cmaloney> brousch: Oh, you thought App Review was actualy a quality thing and not some way for Apple to ensure you didn't fuck with their business model
<cmaloney> silly brousch: Apple isn't going to invade the "apps that don't appeal to anyone" space anytime soon
<jcastro> I think the app model just kind of falls apart at that point
<jcastro> like, if android apps are going to be malware crap then why have a store
<jcastro> at that point it's just windows XP all over again
<brousch> Most of the malware crap is from 3rd party app stores
<brousch> And people using pirated apps, like pirated windows programs
<cmaloney> Well, it reminds me of the Nintendo Seal of Quality
<cmaloney> which wasn't a seal of quality as much as Nintendo ensuring they got their cut of the sale.
<cmaloney> and ensuring folks went through Nintendo so they could censor things (eg: green blood, or "sweat" in fighting games)
<cmaloney> Same idea with the App Store model.
<cmaloney> You can still release a pile of crap in the App Store model.
<rick_h_> anyone have linux video editor opinions to share?
<brousch> openshot
<brousch> It helped me win $400!
<rick_h_> brousch: cool, then can bug you with my questions :)
<_stink_> he charges $400
<brousch> Though I have not actually used it since then (October 2014)
<rick_h_> lol at openshot exporting with 12 cpus
<cscheib> jcastro: enchilada coma
<jcastro> heh
<cmaloney> How was lunch?
<cscheib> tasty.  I think I prefer the rellenos at Azteca
<cscheib> but, no complaints
<cmaloney> Haven't been to Azteca in years
<cmaloney> Never think to go there
<cscheib> I just found out there's one like 10 mins from me in Fraser
<cscheib> so I don't have to drive to Mad Heights to go
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's the one that I'm aware of (Mad. Heights)
<cmaloney> Well, Troy-ish
<cmaloney> I think south 14 mile is Mad. Heights.
<cmaloney> North is Troy
<jrwren> is there still El Charo in Frasier?
<cscheib> there's an El Charro 5 mins away in Saint Clair Shores... there're a few others
<cscheib> I like their soft taco shells a lot... the rest of their food is merely alright
<jcastro> cscheib, http://gizmodo.com/ciscos-going-to-ship-its-equipment-to-empty-houses-to-d-1692376538
<cscheib> yup, that's what I was talking about
<cscheib> kinda ridiculous that it's come to that.
<jrwren> hey, that is what chong tweeted about it when he tweeted about it.
<cscheib> heh
<cscheib> speaking of Puppet, I think he's off consulting right now
<greg-g> as in cheech's counterpart?
<cscheib> heh.  I don't think he so much as even drinks, much less smokes
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> (even though smoking pot is better for your health than alcohol consumption)
<cscheib> no judgement
<greg-g> :)
<cscheib> there's a reason drug testing has gotten much more lenient, especially on the sales side of things, in IT
<cscheib> unless you're working for .gov or auto
<greg-g> non-existent out here (bay area) for marijuana. Half of our engineering org probably has a MMJ card
<cscheib> heh
<greg-g> (half is probably high, no pun intended)
 * akelling looks at his fellow CO workers.....
<akelling> IIRC .gov has started to become more lenient as they cant find skilled works anymore that have not smoked.
<greg-g> yeah, heard the last part, haven't heard if they actually started being more lenient (no real contact in .gov work anymore)
<cscheib> when I worked for CSC, they still drug tested, as so many of their customers required it
<akelling> My brother is a Gov contractor and is on papers for the project he is on.
 * akelling just finds it silly. Living out in Colorado its only improved things.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-20
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> 'sup?
<rick_h_> morn
<rick_h_> brousch: my openshot export has no audio any ideas?
<cmaloney> It's looking like the MUG board meeting will be in downtown Rotal Oak.
<cmaloney> Royal, rather
<brousch> Is there audio during the preview, when you play it in openshot?
<rick_h_> yea, previews is all good
<rick_h_> the whole thing seems good
<rick_h_> but exporting gives me video but no audio
<brousch> What audio codec do you use at export?
<rick_h_> tried a couple of different web formats
<rick_h_> mp3
<rick_h_> was the last export using the youtube-hd settings
<cmaloney> Which file format are you using for export?
<rick_h_> the files are wav in openshot
<cmaloney> Right, but are you using h264 or ... ?
<rick_h_> ok, so tried normal youtube export, audio settings are mp2, 320kbs
<rick_h_> still no sound
<brousch> aac is what i used to use
<rick_h_> oh hmm https://askubuntu.com/questions/541635/no-audio-in-rendered-video-files/548279
<rick_h_> that's sucky to track down
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Oh that's nice.
<cmaloney> Love those "point in time" errors.
<brousch> heh
<greg-g> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2zpkxx/we_are_jameel_jaffer_of_the_aclu_wikipedia/
<cmaloney> Heh. My dad dropped off DVDs of my old high school band "Blackat Chiquita"
<cmaloney> JoDee cringed when I showed her some of it.
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> i bet it was awesome.
<cmaloney> Well, it was our first concert
<cmaloney> and there was a lot of cringeworthy in there
<cmaloney> including the riser that bounced, and the snare-drum stand that gave-way mid solo
<brousch> cmaloney: youtube it, now
<cmaloney> I don't have the copyright. :)
<cmaloney> You'll just have to come over to watch it. ;)
<derekv> man always so much to do, much of it pressing, none of it an emergency, so easy to procrastinate
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-21
<gamerchick02> happy friday, evveryone
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> Hellp from the Science Olympiad. :)
<_stink_> cmaloney: volunteering?
<cmaloney> JoDee is volunteering. I'm just sitting here helping. :)
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> well awesome either way.
<_stink_> i have lots of good memories from that.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's a lot of fun
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-21
<cscheib_> did I catch a niner in there?
<rick_h_> party
<jrwren> good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> morning and all that.
<cmaloney> Yay, Dell shipped... the HDMI to VGA Adapter.
<cmaloney> Wonder if I should stay home for that... :)
<cmaloney> EVeining
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-22
<shakes808> Evening all
<shakes808> I have some questions about the CHC.  Been talking to some colleagues that would like to start one and would like to know if there were any reservations on how you represent it.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<_stink_> i can't remember
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> That good eh?
<_stink_> i think?
<rick_h_> hah
<shakes_808> Hello everyone,  i have some questions about starting a CHC.  Anyone available to help me go to ##doubledev
<jrwren> cmaloney: you are a ting user, right?
<rick_h_> shakes_808: nothing to do? step 1 take laptop to coffee shop
<rick_h_> step 2: open it, but then chat for a couple of hours
<rick_h_> step 3: go home
<rick_h_> step 4: realize it might have seemed less creepy if you're remembered step 4, invite others
<jrwren> anounce on twitter that you did it.
<rick_h_> yea, and make them feel awful for not joining you! :P
<shakes_808> Haha ok.
<shakes_808> Thank you
<_stink_> avoid things like poetry slam night
<rick_h_> booooo _stink_ loved that night!
<rick_h_> he can deny it all he wants, but he KNOWS it's true
<_stink_> i was jamming, you're right
<shakes_808> Haha
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'm a ting user yes. Still a tinger
<jrwren> cmaloney: now I forgot what I was going to ask.
<_stink_> haha
<jrwren> cmaloney: oh yeah, they highlight GSM or CDMA, but with LTE and voice over LTE, does that even matter anymroe?
<cmaloney> For voice quality? Not sure.
<cmaloney> GSM vs. CDMA is essentially if you wnat Sprint or their silent partner who wants to be unnamed (T-Mobile)
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CraigMaloney/posts/BWGGaw2d41u
<cmaloney> eyeballs got dilated and now the world is bright and fuzzy
<jrwren> cmaloney: SCARY@
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I think it's Chibi / Kawaii
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNhRX-RBs_4
<cmaloney> Explanation of Scrum
<jrwren> is that the 7min thing?
<jrwren> haha, yup.
<jrwren> wow, fail, it doesn't even define agile correctly.
<jrwren> i love the TLC refs
<cmaloney> Unfortunately the definition of Agile got screwed up about 3.14323 minutes after it was initially published.
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MticYPfFRp8
<jrwren> yar, I always go back to original agile manifesto.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-23
<havenstance> good morning :)
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<mrgoodcat> pretty great
<mrgoodcat> sleeping in
<mrgoodcat> slept*
<mrgoodcat> i'm up now
<_stink_> only a wizard can IRC in his sleep
<cmaloney> So it is written
<cmaloney> "I cast 'communicate via IRC' in my sleep".
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-24
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> hi
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> Lots of rain in our forecast.
<rick_h_> yea :(
<cmaloney> Makes for good fishing weather. :)
<rick_h_> yea, maybe tomorrow
<cmaloney> first boating of the season?
<rick_h_> though Sat is warmer looking
<rick_h_> yea, think I'll get the kayak out of storage tonight and try to get it out tomorrow or sat
<cmaloney> cool deal
<jrwren> what is a photobooth equiv on ubuntu?
<rick_h_> cheese
<rick_h_> I think if I recall what photobooth is
<mrgoodcat> yea thats it
<jrwren> thanks.
<cmaloney> Are you looking for a kiosk-type photobooth?
<cmaloney> I don't want to live in a world where  sqlite3 doesn't exist.
<cmaloney> I feel like I have superpowers when I use it.
<cmaloney> silly thing but it's true.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-25
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> How goes?
<_stink_> good?
<_stink_> friday?
<cmaloney> Today is a good friday. It takes the normal good friday and kicks it up to great friday.
<gamerchick02> morning. it's good friday. i mean every friday is good but i have it off so it's good-er
<gamerchick02> :-P
<shakes808> morning
<shakes808> Can anyone direct me to how to reset my irc password?
<_stink_> shakes808: /msg NickServ help
<_stink_> probably the setpass command
<shakes808> _stink_: thank you
<_stink_> np!
<shakes808> Is anyone using a cloud ide?
<cmaloney> shakes808: Likely, but i'm not that person. :)
<shakes808> cmaloney: haha.
<mrgoodcat> i tried a few when i was on a chromebook
<mrgoodcat> cloud9 wasn't totally terrible when you consider it's a website not a program
<cmaloney> Yeah, cloud9 is used for the BeagleBone software (if memory serves)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-26
<jrwren> i'm declaring this brand new ST4000DM000-1F21 as DoA :[  so bummed.
<cmaloney> jrwren: 4TB drive DoA? That sucks. :(
<cmaloney> Warranty that bastard.
<jrwren> amazon return policy rules. free shipping. I'd be out half the price of hte drive in shipping if it were newegg
<cmaloney> nice
<mrgoodcat> newegg doesn't offer return shipping labels?
<mrgoodcat> free for newegg premier member, "discounted rate" for everybody else
<mrgoodcat> whatever that means
<jrwren> it means $80 restocking fee minimum, cuz newegg.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-27
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> So I bought a go book.
<cmaloney> golang
<cmaloney> and one of the resources for getting a modern go on 12.04 used to be on someone's PPA. ;)
<jrwren> which book?
<cmaloney> The Kernighan one
<jrwren> cmaloney: wait, WHAT?
<jrwren> whose ppa?
<cmaloney> evarlast or some shit. ;)
<jrwren> WHAT?!?! oh shit, I should recreate that PPA with a note to use ubuntu-lxd/devel
<jrwren> cmaloney: send me a pic?
<cmaloney> Well, it was on stack overflow
<cmaloney> so it didn't exist anymore
<cmaloney> and what's awesome about lxd's go is it only works from trusty onward
<cmaloney> because fuck me.
<jrwren> oh really?!?! so no precise eh?
<cmaloney> Newp
<jrwren> hrm. precise is supported though, how is juju 2.0 getting to precise I wonder?
<jrwren> oh, it won't need lxd.
<jrwren> lxd doesn't support precise, does it?
<cmaloney> I'm planning on upgrading soon, but seems I'm at the 35 fuck-you years in a LTS.
<cmaloney> nope
<cmaloney> 3-5
<jrwren> so wait... waht exactly is in the Kernighan book?
<cmaloney> Just a "go install this on your machine"
<cmaloney> nothing directly related to you
<cmaloney> Google gave me your PPA in a stack overflow post
<jrwren> ah, ok.
<cmaloney> which no longer exists.
<jrwren> I see.
<cmaloney> I worded that a bit vague
<jrwren> yeah you did.
<cmaloney> Also installing JoDee's laptop
<jrwren> the comment here? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17480044/how-to-install-the-current-version-of-go-in-ubuntu-precise
<cmaloney> Yep
<jrwren> i could probably backport 1.6 to precise for you in short order. Do you need it?
<cmaloney> Not if it's too much trouble
<jrwren> let me try a copy first.
<cmaloney> was just seeing the back-end of the train that I'm trying to get on. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: since I don't know if it will work, I added to my experimental ppa.
<jrwren> ppa:evarlast/experimental
<jrwren> a precise golang-go 1.6 package is copying there. Give it a try, let me know if it works or not.
<cmaloney> Checking
<cmaloney> Thanks!
<jrwren> its still pending publishing, if it doesn't show, just wait a while and apt-get update and try again.
<jrwren> bbl, gonna read stories to my daughter.
<cmaloney> Looks like it's working. THank you!
<jrwren> you are welcome
<cmaloney> evening
<jrwren> good evening.
<jrwren> usps delivered on sunday!  datavg   5   6   0 wz--n- 12.97t 3.94t  backup to 12TB!
<jrwren> yay!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-20
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> how goes?
<rick_h> meh, monday wheee
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I'm recording lines of dialog for an animatic of Pepper & Carrot
<rick_h> that sounds like fun
<cmaloney> It's a contest so hopefully it'll be some extra $$
<cmaloney> re-recording lines per a director based our of Russia
<rick_h> interesting
<cmaloney> https://morevnaproject.org/2017/03/04/pepper-carrot-voicing-contest-closed-now/
<_stink_> cool!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-21
<cmaloney> morning
<brousch__> youarecorrectsir
<cmaloney> Yay, finally something I can be right about
<jrwren> good morning. How are you on this fine day?
<cmaloney> Still unemployed, thinking I'm unemployable, and drinking coffee.
<cmaloney> You? :)
<brousch__> :(
<jrwren> working and drinking coffee.
<cmaloney> cool deal
<brousch__> cmaloney: Have you started looking at anything outside of IT/programming?
<cmaloney> Yeah, but I'm not sure what I can do other than dig ditches. :)
<cmaloney> I think you need a Bachelors in ditch digging to even qualify anymore.
<brousch__> Don't they have machines for that now?
<cmaloney> Fucking robots. :)
<cmaloney> Maybe I could become one o those 6-figure teachers I've heard so much about. ;)
 * cmaloney is a little salty
 * brousch__ will not lick cmaloney to confirm that statement
<jrwren> if chromebooks can get good battery life, why can't linux laptops?
<rick_h> jrwren: lies, chrome eats batteries for dinner. I've been told that.
<brousch__> They can, if you strip down the install, tweak the kernel, and use power-efficient hardware
<jrwren> ah, makes sense.
<jrwren> so maybe in a year or two. IIRC a lot of the android kernel diffs got merged back into main linux branch. Maybe linux will be power efficient
<rick_h> jrwren: heh, start usign linux with 4gb of ram?
 * rick_h still can't believe that apple laptops default with 8
<rick_h> "uuummm, this one has 'Pro' in the name. Surely that one gets more ootb?"
<jrwren> rick_h: I know, but for $200, it was tempting for my kid.
<rick_h> jrwren: the chromebook?
<rick_h> oh definitely, they use them at my son's elementary school and I think they're pretty cool with the android app ability now
<rick_h> I'll be tempted to get one for my son in a bit when he starts needing to use it for looking stuff up or writing
<jrwren> oh, they do have the android app ability?
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/7021273?hl=en
<jrwren> awesome.
<rick_h> jrwren: looks like you need the right device: https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/chrome-os-systems-supporting-android-apps
<jrwren> so weird.
<jrwren> i love tech. i hate this closed b.s.
<rick_h> the android stuff? or what other closed BS?
<brousch__> The problem I ran into with chromebooks for the kid was lack of Minecraft (and now Roblox)
<rick_h> but you'd be able to run minecraft the android app right?
<rick_h> my son plays it on his android phone current so assumed that would come along
<brousch__> Well that would be Minecraft PE vs normal Minecraft
 * rick_h is minecraft ignorant so zoom over my head
<brousch__> There is Minecraft, and there is Pocket Edition. PE is stripped down and designed for touch screens.
<rick_h> oic
<brousch__> Different games, really, and cannot interact with each other
<rick_h> ah, bummer
<cmaloney> Yeah, like the differences between Civ for PC and Civ for the Nintendo DS
<cmaloney> (is my age showing?)
<jrwren> The closed stuff I dislike is... yeah, android :)  If chrome os can run android apps, why can't my linux?
<jcastro> well, someone has to do the work first off
<jrwren> I guess that is always the case, eh? google did it for chromeos but it isn't open source. Oh well.
<rick_h> https://goo.gl/photos/F7ea2WpTDVaTyd948 I'm not sure how hard to laugh at this
<cmaloney> blergh
<jrwren> idle your car for 50min? or can engine be off and key in RUN position?
<rick_h> yea, I think "run" is maybe with the key part turned (or in my keyless truck you hit the start button without foot on the brake)
<jrwren> i wonder if there will be an alt market for dumb vehicles sometime soon.
<jrwren> I want this UI back: http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/AC_Delco/Climate_Control_Unit/AC1572267.html
<rick_h> hah, I had a rental car last week
<_stink_> jrwren++
<rick_h> and it was that way and I was annoyed "what do you mean I have to switch heat and adjust the level?"
<greg-g> jrwren: that's what I have in my '02 subaru :)
 * rick_h is spoiled with dual climate set a temp and let it go
<rick_h> I want my side 69...heat or cool or whatever you need to do to make it so jfdi
<greg-g> I don't want a fancy computerized car
<greg-g> but, I do want the CVT transmission
<greg-g> (atm machine)
<rick_h> +1
<rick_h> oh wait, you want CVT?
 * rick_h hates CVT
<greg-g> yeah, better gas mileage
<rick_h> hated that in the subaru
<rick_h> got a stick instead of a CVT
<greg-g> I'd really love an electric/hybrid outback
<rick_h> I'm really curious to try out the wife's hybrid pacifica if it ever gets here
<jrwren> yes rick_h, you want your android phone. I want the equiv of the grandpa flip phone for car UI.
<jrwren> No bullshit, no toys and it works.
<jrwren> honestly, the '12 Accord is just fine in that regard.
<greg-g> or better, a small four-door electric/hybrid pickup truck. Like a toyota tacoma size
<rick_h> I hate the idea of upgrading my car and so much software in there...but damn I love my gps directions, set it and forget it climate control, and fancy tire pressure monitoring and such
<jrwren> CVT is great in theory, but humans have got accustomed to feeling shifts under high acceleration.
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, that'll be cool if they do something like that with a colorado or the like
<greg-g> effing colorado, I hate that small ass thing
<greg-g> I'm still pissed Ford discontinued the Ranger
<jrwren> greg-g: WHAT?!  I want an S10.
<rick_h> jrwren: well cvt just sucks for actual power and offroad testing shows that it can't deliver the power like non-cvt
<jrwren> electric S10 would be great :)
<greg-g> Ranger >> s10
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> yes, Range >> S10 when it comes to size and eating gas.
 * rick_h had a ranger back in the day and hated it
<jrwren> only reason I want a pickup is for the utility. 4'x8' bed so I can pickup my own drywall plz. :)
<rick_h> yea, I've come to love my truck
<rick_h> didn't want to get it at first but it is nice
<rick_h> when I had the ranger really only used hte bed a couple of times
<rick_h> greg-g: colorado you can get in diesel now :) though I've never been in one so no experience with em
<jrwren> would you trust GM and small diesel?
<rick_h> we'll see. I <3 diesel
<jrwren> me too. its just, GM doesn't have a very good record with small diesel engines.
 * greg-g doesn't know those kinds of things
<jrwren> Maybe I'm too anti-GM given I contracted for them for 5yrs :p
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> "momma! momma! can you help me?! My underwear are inside out!"
<greg-g> working from home you hear the darndest things
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> yes
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> babies!
<jrwren> <3
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-22
<brousch__> cmaloney: My favorite from OMC #150. Awesome. https://mortalspath.bandcamp.com/releases
<cmaloney> brousch__: Glad you're enjoying it. :)
<cmaloney> rick_h: Did you get an EV?
<rick_h> cmaloney: ordered a Pacifica hybrid. Still not here :(
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> rick_h: my mother in law just got a new pacifica, I don't know if it is hybrid. They are very nice.
<jrwren> I didn't realize they renamed town-and-country to pacifica. I thought it would be more like the old pacifica.
<jrwren> specs on that pacifica hybrid look SWEET.
<jrwren> gas electric hybrid with great range, and 30+mi all electric... perfect for cruising around town.
<jrwren> rick_h: I assume its plug-in hybrid?
<rick_h> jrwren: yea plugs in for 30mi range and the runs gas as secondary
<jrwren> rick_h: so cool.
<rick_h> Yea hopefully works out well. Seems a neat idea for daily driving on electric and long range on gas.
<jrwren> yeah, and I saw it has a very long range on gas. something like 500+miles? that is great.
<rick_h> yea, normal pacifica on gas. Same engine/etc
<jrwren> is it? I didn't erad about the power train. that is even cooler.
<greg-g> what's the tank size? iow: what's the mpg for that 500 miles?
 * greg-g doesn't google ;)
<greg-g> says 84 on chrysler's page, but it's "mpge"? I know not what that really means
<greg-g> wow, I could drive to LA with one tank
<rick_h> yea, the non-hybrid says "up to 28 hwy"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-23
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> WAT?
<jcastro> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gDUD6Tic-UvqWemMrio9ig56-hGkYKNgA6sXc-SQWJo/edit
<jcastro> has all the info jrwren rick_h ^^^
<rick_h> jcastro: cool ty
<shakes808> hello peoples, wondering about why I can't "cd" or "less" into these: http://pastebin.com/d9aY1GgY
<cmaloney> shakes808: ls -al . (in etc)
<jrwren> shakes808: super* is matching a single dir in /etc, so ls -l super* is not showing you files in etc, shell is expanding super* and showing you contents of those matches.
<jrwren> or multiple dirs for that matter.
<jrwren> shakes808: try `ls -ld super*`
<cmaloney> that is likely what is happening
<shakes808> Thank you,  That is what it looks like it is doing.  It looks like it is going into /etc/supervisor/ and pulling those files.  I would imagine that it would have showed me the file path if it was buried more like that
<jrwren> nope, it is doing what you told it to.
<jrwren> remember, shell expands wildcards.
<jrwren> ls can't tell you anything about it, because bash already did it.
<cmaloney> ++
<shakes808> ah, alright.
<shakes808> Thank you
<shakes808> is there a way to do what I want but for only the current dir?
<jrwren> shakes808: what do you want?
<shakes808> search current dir for foo*
<shakes808> not going into the other dir in the current dir.
<shakes808> or if it is going to go down into the other dir, give me the path to which you are in
<jrwren> shakes808: oh, that is what I pasted.
<jrwren> try `ls -ld super*`
<jrwren> err, wrote and now pasted.
<jrwren> list directories themselves, not their content.
<shakes808> HAHA, alright.  must have read over that post, sorry.
<jrwren> so when bash expands super* to sueprvisor, `ls -ld supervsior` (what is actually executing) will list the dir, not its contents.
<shakes808> Awesome!  Thank you
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-24
<Dekkard> hey dudes.. Im doing a regular update and upgrade..synaptic stalled on dropbox.. been like 20 minutes..anyway to kill it and revert ?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-25
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h> afternoon
<gamerchick02> howdy
<gamerchick02> picked up a hdmi to display port connector so i can use the xps as a main right now while my desktop is dead
<gamerchick02> i can use my big monitor and everything. this is great
<cmaloney> nice
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> the desktop being dead makes me sad but being able to use my good board and mouse make me happy
<gamerchick02> https://gamerchick02.tumblr.com/post/158821073560/temporary-workspace-computer-is-my-xps-13-powered
<gamerchick02> here's the picture.
<cmaloney> Nice.
<gamerchick02> thanks!
<gamerchick02> not ideal, but better.
<gamerchick02> and i have my speakers hooked up so i can hear music without the tinny-ness of the laptop ones.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-26
<tony-smlr> we are about to go live SMLR E231/232 (3/26/2017) Video:  Video http://youtu.be/EsiA4qGyxNE Audio: http://www.podcastdetroit.com/how-to-listen/listen-to-studio-3/
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<jrwren> morning
<greg-g> morning
<cmaloney> Another coding challenge / test, another miserable failure. :(
<cmaloney> Ah well, press onward.
<gamerchick02> afternoon!
<gamerchick02> sorry about your coding failure. but i have a success if it can make you happy: my computer is now at microcenter and in their queue for repair. we'll find out in two weeks. til then i have the linux laptop... i'm on linux for the time being which is fine for me.
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: nice
<gamerchick02> very.
<gamerchick02> i'll have to pick out a motherboard and chip if that's the issue
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-19
<waldo323> I'm looking for options for open source systems and network monitoring.  what have people used?  I've been using the commmunity version Zenoss and notice that after the 4.x branch the software becomes much more complex
<rick_h_> waldo323: so I've been playing with telegraf and prometheus with grafana for visualization for system stuff
<rick_h_> waldo323: not sure for network stuff. I assume there's some sort of prometheus plug/tool for send metrics
<jrwren> IME: there are dozens of them, and they all suck.
<greg-g> looks like we're using LibreNMS
<greg-g> (plus prometheus and grafana)
<rick_h_> build your own poison? :P
<jrwren> "systems and network monitoring" can be so many different things at so many different levels these days.
<jrwren> it means what it did 20yrs ago, but it also means a great many new things.
<rick_h_> jrwren: come on, let's get him the old orielly snmp book :P
<cmaloney> nagios
<cmaloney> that is all you need
<cmaloney> if your system can't do nagios it ain't worth monitoring
<jrwren> oh how I wish that were true.
<jrwren> sadly, there is still almost nothing which monitors flow AFAICT
<cmaloney> heh
<waldo323> we have a mix of snmp, oracle, windows wmi, ssh, and probably a few other methods being used by zenoss
<cmaloney> is zenoss that expensive for the commercial version?
<waldo323> the newer versions of zenoss seem like an entirely different beast - I see several people suggesting people with smaller infrastructures stay at zenoss  4.2.5
<waldo323> yeah and you don't get much more for the cost
<cmaloney> ah
<waldo323> and from what I can tell is a few magnitudes more in resource consumption which is likely why I saw the recommendations for staying with the older version
<cmaloney> ugh
<waldo323> from what I can tell 4.2.5 will work on RHEL, CentOS <7...we'd like to migrate the remaining 6 servers to 7.4 so locking into an older version doesn't sound like a great idea
<brousch> I think the newer zenoss moved to docker-all-the-things and it blew up resource usage
<brousch> We use zabbix
<waldo323> cool, thanks I'll take a look at LibreNMS, and Zabbix...and another look at nagios
<waldo323> (and am likely still open to possibilities)
<jrwren> What does systems and network monitoring mean to you?
<waldo323> checking whether systems, sites, databases are up alerting me and other IT admins when something isn't
<waldo323> also keeps track of trends in system resources, ram, cpu, disk usage
<jrwren> nagios actually is still great that the first part of that.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-20
<jrwren> I was just reading https://insights.ubuntu.com/2018/03/20/lxd-weekly-status-39 and noticed something about cluster placement. Does anyone know when LXD got clusters and placement and where it is in the docs?
<jrwren> Ah, https://lxd.readthedocs.io/en/latest/clustering/  there. no idea when this landed
<rick_h_> jrwren: it's new trying to make lxd more 'cloud-like'
<jrwren> rick_h_: its great and sensible!
<rick_h_> jrwren: it's been in progress the last 2 cycles I think
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> configured correctly it can be a nice alternative to a simple openstack.
<rick_h_> definitely
<rick_h_> less overhead by a long shot, 5 machines in a lxd cluster > those 5 machines just running OS components
<rick_h_> though when you outgrow and need SDN and storage and ...
<jrwren> no need for complexity of glance, keystone, neutron (zomg complex!)
<jrwren> yup, exactly.
<jrwren> but still, if you are small enough... do everything you can to stay small and avoid needing neutron for as long as possible :p
<jrwren> and cinder... UGH... cinder and swift are THE WORST!  :p
<rick_h_> yea, it's a nice way to put something like guimaas to better work tbh
<rick_h_> take the 6 nodes into a lxd cluster and then juju deploy on top of that "cloud" across machines and such
<jrwren> mmmhmmm.
<jrwren> or if you are very lucky, skip juju :p
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> still have to operate the stuff so <insert something here>
<jrwren> operate?
<jrwren> k8s I guess. :p
<jrwren> but juju is probably best way to deploy k8s, and then you are back to guimass being juju managed. But I guess k8s on metal is better than k8s on Openstack.
<rick_h_> heh, back to running openstack
<jrwren> so flexible!
<rick_h_> yea, definitely k8s on bare metal
<rick_h_> I don't get k8s on openstack tbh
<jrwren> I do, but I don't like it.
<jrwren> Its because k8s doesn't do any network security and since it is soft containers it doesn't technically do any OS security either and so you need the NOVA + Neutron for host and network security.
<jrwren> It also lets you build many small k8s clusters in VMs instead of one large one.
<jrwren> k8s doesn't do resource management quite as nicely as nova, again because of its container not VM nature.
<rick_h_> yea, fair enough I guess
 * rick_h_ just get sad face at the resources running the stacks of stuff needed to run the application container
<jrwren> Me too.
<rick_h_> at some point the complexity has to out weigh the 'ease of deploy' of stuff
<jrwren> It is why I still LOVE the stackoverflow approach.
<jrwren> It doesnt' even have to be complexity. It can be pure cost. Running this stuff in the public cloud gets expensive pretty quickly.
<rick_h_> yea, I think the research was something like around 30 large instances it get more cost effective to run your own hardware?
 * rick_h_ needs to look that back up, maybe it was a bit more than 30
<jrwren> its subjective because it depends on so many things. I'm convinced you can pretty much make those number say wahtever you want them to say.
<rick_h_> fair enough, there's definitely a crossing point for folks I think
<jrwren> definitely.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-21
<jrwren> https://atlas.ripe.net/about/  you should get a probe (its free)
<rick_h_> words you need to turn off your childish inside voice before processing
<cmaloney> determine how ripe you are with a probe? :)
<jrwren> lol rick_h_ for a sec I way thinking, "I can't help my high pitched girly voice."
<rick_h_> jrwren: lol
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, that's not the issue at hand, carry on
<rick_h_> ok, I'm having a hard time this morning going "yay k8s!" going through this https://github.com/vmware/harbor/blob/master/docs/kubernetes_deployment.md
<jrwren> rick_h_: dude... i'm so upset with k8s right now. CronJobs are TERRIBLE!!!
<rick_h_> jrwren: I was going to reply to your post on that
<rick_h_> love how "I want to do X, what's the worse off container method of X?"
<jrwren> hahahahahaha, exactly.
<rick_h_> I figured it was a bit snarky to reply publicly though heh
<jrwren> hehehehe
<jrwren> The thing is, snappy is the only thing that autoupdates.
<rick_h_> ?
<rick_h_> oh you mean you need cron jobs to update something?
<rick_h_> damn, 800MB tar to copy around and load images
<rick_h_> wheee
<cmaloney> k8s - when you want to automate yourself out of devops by trying to figure out how to automate your install process
<rick_h_> watch the video: https://cloudplatform.googleblog.com/2018/03/introducing-Skaffold-Easy-and-repeatable-Kubernetes-development.html
<rick_h_> they autorun "make run"
<jrwren> rick_h_: well, its docker, so its a 30MB layered docker image, but yup... that is the "CronJob"
<jrwren> rick_h_: makefiles are hard, Dockerfiles are easier.  right?  lolz
<rick_h_> sweet, next eng sprint is in portland so get to mountain bike in 4 new states this year
<rick_h_> put that travel bag to good use
<jrwren> nice!
<rick_h_> man, 5000 feet of decent... that's insane
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's awesome!
<cmaloney> (re: the bike)
<cmaloney> I want to like Docker but man it just feels frustrating as hell
<rick_h_> so it's cool to grab something and docker run it locally and have it all up and running straight form the image like a VM
<rick_h_> there's something here, I just need to get over enough of the learning curve to get it I guess. I just don't get the loading of 22 yaml files of config to run something in k8s
<rick_h_> not sure how that was the 'easy' path yet I guess
<jrwren> its not easy.
<jrwren> its reproducable.
<jrwren> easy is turn on an ec2 instance and treat it like a server from 1997
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> s/easy/well-understood/ ;)
<greg-g> cattle not pets and all
<greg-g> and yeah, I have a ripe atlas hooked up to my router :)
<greg-g> not that the bay area wasn't covered well or anything, I just felt like being cool
<jrwren> Ann Arbor only has a few.
<greg-g> that surprises me
<greg-g> figured there'd be more
<cmaloney> Maybe we're a little more leery of hooking foreign devices to our internet connections
<Scary_Guy> still don't trust it
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'd rather trust some guy in Poland making Tomato firmware than a large company of intenet probes.
<cmaloney> thankyouverymuch. :)
<greg-g> ripe are good people, at least according to my DD friends who also have them in their homes
<greg-g> I mean, it ain't no amazon echo :P
<cmaloney> (I'm being somewhat cheeky)
<greg-g> (figured ;) )
<Scary_Guy> but at least I can look at the source code and compile that firmware myself if I so choose
<cmaloney> THat was a slight dig at Eero et al with their closed cloud-based Internet Router firmware
<greg-g> Scary_Guy: of? an echo?
<greg-g> oh, no, the router with tomato
<Scary_Guy> and I use OpenWRT
<Scary_Guy> unfortunately it's still on Linksys firmware, which I do have reservations about.  but there aren't many good open hardware routers out there that I know of
<Scary_Guy> that don't cost an arm and a leg*
<Scary_Guy> also https://mycroft.ai is a thing too
<jrwren> "a few" a dozen in the county total, if i remember what I saw this morning.
<greg-g> hah, when your team tries to one-up on language beauty to do a thing: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/P6875
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> That code up top doesn't look like Ruby, or perhaps Ruby is starting to look more like Python. :)
<cmaloney> Actually, the first one does look like ruby now that I look at it a second time
<cmaloney> And by  "look like ruby" I mean that I have NFC what this line does: end.find do |vm|
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> plus it's Ruby written by someone who used to do mostly ruby but who's been doing more python and Go lately and went back to Ruby for this quick script
<cmaloney> Is that why it looks like someone took some Python and said "let's throw in Perl to make it more readable".
<cmaloney> seriously, my Google fu doesn't have anything for "end.find do"...
<cmaloney> I mean, I sort of get what it's doing but I'm sitting here parsing it rather than understanding it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-22
<jrwren> cmaloney: end.find isn't a thing, but everything in ruby is an expression.
<jrwren> the end is the end of the previous block expression.
<jrwren> which happens to return a list/iterable, which is then .find being called.
<cmaloney> Ah, that makes some sense
<cmaloney> but the syntax is ugh. :)
<jrwren> syntax only a rubyist could love.
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> Good Morning.
<_stink__> yo
<Scary_Guy> yar
<waldo323> good morning
<waldo323> for a little bit longer
<rick_h_> gah! /me stomps around and old man rants at "The problem with ... Time for a thread"
<rick_h_> NO NO NO NO NO, I have something interesting thoughts to put down and share is NEVER "time for a thread"
<brousch> What is the right time for a thread?
<rick_h_> there is no such thing
<rick_h_> seriously, a thread on twitter is what, seen across one day at most by folks? and then it's gone into the ether
<rick_h_> and if it's interesting/thoughtful enough for a thread is it really meant to have a fruit fly life?
<cmaloney> So blog about it. :)
<cmaloney> And yes, I really hate when folks take to Twitter to string together 5+ thoughts into a Twitter thread.
<rick_h_> I decided I'd rant in my safe place because clearly my opinion on it won't change anything
<rick_h_> but it's nice to get it outside your head
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's great for stream of conciousness
<rick_h_> I deleted two different replies in twitter
<cmaloney> but take those thoughts and put them into a blog post. :)
<cmaloney> (assuming they're worth the trouble)
<cmaloney> And if they're not worth the trouble then let them be ephemeral
<rick_h_> heh, the blog post I'm working on is a reply to https://twitter.com/samuelclay/status/975921660258803712
<rick_h_> that one bothers me so much
<cmaloney> Oh FFS
<rick_h_> it really bugs me on several levels and I have mad respect for Samuel
<cmaloney> Go fart your way to work on your cloud of good intentions and smugness
<cmaloney> and realize that humanity can fuck up at any time and you could trip on a crack and die
<cmaloney> sorry, that came off rather strong
<cmaloney> but I really love it when folks make not having a car a sign of privilege
<cmaloney> Sorry that we live in Detroit and having a car is pretty much the only way to get anywhere in a reasonable timeperiod
<rick_h_> that's one of the levels. I mean in the USA to be able to live a productive life w/o a car is kind of a 1% thing. I'm really curious what that % really is.
<cmaloney> I'd also ask how many Ubers, Lyfts, and cabs he's hailed in the past year
<cmaloney> oh wait, if he's used Uber then I could probably get that data
<cmaloney> :eyeroll:
<cmaloney> sorry we don't have sherpas and rickshaws to cart our butts around
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> its not why I don't have a car, but look at the pic, the guy is amish. don't let religious views bother you.
<rick_h_> I don't think he's amish. He's SFO the guy behind newsblur and such. He was working on newsblur while I was starting bookie and his actually is a business lol
<rick_h_> why I can't shake it off as random dude said something stupid
<jrwren> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_high_transit_ridership
<cmaloney> 33.1%
<cmaloney> Honestly I don't enjoy owning a car. It's kind of a pain in the butt
<cmaloney> but it's better than the other options and I enjoy being able to hop in the car and go where I want to go
<jrwren> Ann Arbor 11.2% !!!   #31 on the list.  hehehehe
<cmaloney> if someone came up with a better way to take my will to be somewhere and transport my butt from point A to point B with reasonable safety and low ethical cost I would be quite happy to ditch the car
<cmaloney> and quickly
<jrwren> working at home, it made NO SENSE for me to keep a car. I can take lyft or the bus and still spend less than I was on insurance alone for a paid off car.
<cmaloney> Until then I'll burn dinosaur remnants
<cmaloney> Totes
<cmaloney> for a while we only had one car
<cmaloney> then I started at Morpace and we had to get a second car
<cmaloney> I didn't enjoy that
<rick_h_> jrwren: how much stuff does your daughter have to do?
<rick_h_> jrwren: that was what killed me when we had one car in the shop
<jrwren> rick_h_: wife has a car.
<jrwren> we never have a car in the shop.
<rick_h_> was the kid stuff that had to be worked around for swim, shopping, soccer, etc
<rick_h_> jrwren: so either I had to take my wife to work and back each day or we needed that second vehicle back
<jrwren> gymnastics, girl scouts, those would be expensive lyft rides for sure, but still less than the cost of keeping a car.
<rick_h_> but when she's rotating between hospital/office/etc she needs a way around
<jrwren> Yeah, it is not for everyone for sure.
<jrwren> I'm not trying to shame you or say, you should try this.
<rick_h_> I guess that's the advantage of the lyft being in a more densely populated area
<rick_h_> no, I'm generally curious as I know you have a kid and are pretty active in stuff
<rick_h_> e.g. you seem to get around and post to instagram well enough, curious if that's all full family time or what
<jrwren> yup, i'm never more than 2mi away from a lyft driver, and usually less than a mile.
<jrwren> rick_h_: I've taken the bus to at least one of those games at crysler center that I posted to IG this year :)
<rick_h_> I had thought about one day trying to be a one vehicle family
<jrwren> but mostly it is full family time.
<rick_h_> I think the big thing is less that it's cheaper but the time involved to organize 3rd party transit and the unknown on if you can get it or not
<jrwren> You are dead on right re: kid stuff. My Kid's 2 best friends from school live outside of our school zone, they are school of choice, and so instead of being a 20min walk away at most, they are a 20min drive away :(
<rick_h_> so we pay more for that second vehicle for predicability and more time at home vs managing the transit
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren> yup, I worried that unknown was going to be an issue for me, but so far it hasn't been.
<jrwren> But I can also walk home from downtown in about an hour, so it really is not an issue.
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> that's where I'm curious what percent of the US population lives in a place large enough to do that
<jrwren> and the bus stop is 1/8mi from here. I can hear the bus use its turn signal, sometimes even when the house is closed up and the air is right :)
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> It is a good question. I think you'd only need to know what % of US Population lives in areas with good public transit.
<jrwren> IIRC most of USA population does NOT live in NYC, LA, Chi, Hou, Pho, Phily, SanAn, SD, Dallas, SanJose, Austin
<jrwren> just looking at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population  I don't know about public transit in some of those top 10 cities, but when I visited Austin and Jax (admittedly a while ago now) they were NOT public transit cities, adn CBUS is #14 on taht list?  pffff... no way.
<jrwren> sheesh I didn't realize cbus had grown so much!
<jrwren> bigger than detroit by population now?!?
<rick_h_> well not sure if it's grown or DTW has shrunk :)
<jrwren> yes, i think I was misinformed on cbus size. I thought it was much smaller.
<cmaloney> For those of us who aren't familiar with acronyms: CBUS=?
<cmaloney> Ah, Columbus
<cmaloney> yeah Columbus is hopping
<brousch> cmaloney: Mastodon is getting some press due to the latest Facebook scandal
<Scary_Guy> good
<Scary_Guy> https://asciinema.org this seems useful
<cmaloney> brousch: Awesome. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-23
<gamerchick02> yay bonus track!
<gamerchick02> ooops this was for the bugcast
<gamerchick02> but yeah, if anyone in here likes CC music, go to #thebugcast and hang and listen to good music
<cmaloney> I hate CC music. :)
<gamerchick02> LOL
<gamerchick02> http://stream.otherside.network:8904/listen.pls is the stream
<Scary_Guy> CC?
<gamerchick02> a lot of it is, yes
<Scary_Guy> no, what is CC?  I'm not getting it
<Scary_Guy> Classic Country?
<Scary_Guy> I can't get it to open in NCMPCPP anyway
<greg-g> Creative Commons, I presume
<Scary_Guy> that would make way more sense
<greg-g> And not Change Congress, also started by Larry Lessig (and, yes, he accidentally sent emails to the wrong staff list at least twice while I was at the original CC)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-25
<tony-smlr> We are live now! SMLR E270,269 (3/25/2018) Video: http://youtu.be/GomkUUU1JJ8
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> Good mor... er...
<jrwren> tie one on?
<Scary_Guy> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-16
<greg-g> hope all of you are doing well with all of this shit
<Scary_Gu1> https://babylonbee.com/news/nations-nerds-wake-up-in-utopia-where-everyone-stays-inside-sports-canceled-social-interaction-forbidden
<Scary_Gu1> I'm peachy :D
<cmaloney> Heh
<_stink_> greg-g: how's CA?
<greg-g> _stink_: bars and such are closed down as of yesterday, school is out this week, but most likely for longer
<greg-g> no TP to be found :)
<greg-g> and my bidet delivery is delayed!
<_stink_> table flip!
<_stink_> you probably heard that bars/eateries are closed for dine-in in MI
<_stink_> as of today
<_stink_> i am looking at 4 weeks of WFH with the kids here
<_stink_> wife's situation is unclear
<jrwren> its day 3 and my family is already at each others throats.
<Scary_Gu1> Still can get in the car and go for a nice drive at least
<jrwren> i'm lucky to live within walking distance of 3 nice wooded parks, but even those get boring, so I'm looking forward to driving to other parks for roaming wooded trails.
<cmaloney> https://gettogether.community/events/4724/coffee-house-coders-regular-meeting/
<cmaloney> We're meeting online on Wednesday
<jrwren> oh fun!
<cmaloney> and for the forseeable future
<_stink_> works better for me :D
<greg-g> setting up a jitsi? :P
<cmaloney> Why, yes. :)
<Scary_Gu1> https://i.4cdn.org/pol/1584378841264.jpg for those who don't want to click on it, it says "a couple of weeks of isolation with the family, what could go wrong?" and has a photo of Jack and the family driving up to The Overlook Hotel
<cmaloney> Yeah, saw that one
<_stink_> hah
<greg-g> perfect
<greg-g> tbh, we thought about doing a camping trip during this :) but we have too much house stuff to do to really take time away from home, sadly
<greg-g> I saw ri<tab> (what?! not here?!) is doing that. took the trailer out with the boy for a trip south
<cmaloney> yeah, ri<tab> darted off so I think we have non-Canonical folks only in here
<cmaloney> or former Canonical
<mrgoodcat> rsvp'd
<mrgoodcat> haven't done chc in a while
<cmaloney> Awesome! Welcome back. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-17
<mrgoodcat> did i miss the chc meeting link?
<mrgoodcat> or is it not sent yet
<cmaloney> not yet
<cmaloney> wednesday
<mrgoodcat> oh ha
<mrgoodcat> i thought today was wednesday for most of the day
<Scary_Guy> I wonder what the name for that effect is.  Like "DÃ©jÃ  vu" or something.
<mrgoodcat> there is probably a name for it
<mrgoodcat> i've been basically self quarantined since before the real virus panic even started since i've been home with a broken elbow, separated shoulder, sprained wrist/hand
<mrgoodcat> i have a manual transmission car so driving is more or less impossible
<jrwren> OUCH
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-18
<Scary_Guy> No Uber?
<Scary_Guy> I mean as long as you can still get stuff it's okay I guess.  Can't run out of TP!
<mrgoodcat> my wife has done the shopping the past few weeks
<mrgoodcat> ouch indeed
<mrgoodcat> its not so bad now, but it hurt when i did it for sure
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Ouch
<gamerchick02> how many of us are working from home right now? i've got a tunnel into the systems i need for work and am doing my work on my personal desktop. nothing to install.... it's nice!
<gamerchick02> tho i think i might go crazy if i don't have any human contact for awhile lol
<cmaloney> CHC tonight is online
<cmaloney> https://gettogether.community/events/4724/coffee-house-coders-regular-meeting/
<mrgoodcat> gamerchick02: our team has a daily 30m call to talk about nothing we called "the water cooler"
<mrgoodcat> its been going pretty well. maybe something like that helps
<gamerchick02> nice!
<mrgoodcat> i've also had some teledrinking with friends
<gamerchick02> we have a staff at 1pm today and i hope the webex bit will work for me in IE in the tunnel.
<mrgoodcat> and on monday I think we're going to use vlc to synchronize a movie
<gamerchick02> i might see if the audio works on my computer too instead of calling in. i have a rockin headset.
<Dekkard> whatever became of mr. Castro?
<cmaloney> He still is out there, but no longer visits the channel
<cmaloney> he was working for Heptio, but I think that's now VMWare.
<cmaloney> he's spreading the gospel of Kubernetes
<Dekkard> containers, containers, and MORE containers
<Dekkard> loco ever get together?
<cmaloney> Well, we were going to get to gether at Penguicon
<cmaloney> we've been getting together every year
<cmaloney> but it gets fewer and fewer
<cmaloney> I mean, here's the loco directory: https://loco.ubuntu.com/events/
<cmaloney> https://meet.jit.si/CoffeeHouseCodersRoyalOak20200318
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-19
<jrwren> if you love fonts: https://www.ohyouprettythings.com/free
<rick_h_> anyone still hanging out here?
<jrwren> yup
<rick_h_> how goes?
<cmaloney> Welcome back!
<cmaloney> Wondered if we were ever going to see you back here
 * cmaloney does a cartwheel or two
<rick_h_> heh, honestly didn't realize I got the freenode boot again since I was working in freenode juju no problem
<rick_h_> but cleaning up some irc and noticed I had to #rejoin to get it going again
<jrwren> anyone else getting excited about 20.04? :)
<jrwren> we are getting closer and closer to moving to 18.04 for our servers at work, so I'm very happy about that.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I'm still on 14.04 for my main desktop
<cmaloney> like a fool
<jrwren> desktop? what is that ;)
<jrwren> 19.10 eoan on my home server ;)
<cmaloney> jrwren: Sorry, my SSH and Chrome Browser terminal :-P
<jrwren> ah, the sad state of desktop linux.
<jrwren> someday... somday... i'll buy a laptop linux again.
<jrwren> macos gets worse adn worse with each release.
<cmaloney> I don't know about sad state. Seems pretty fine by me. :)
<jrwren> a browser and a terminal is hte only software people use becuase all the rest of it doesn't eixst?
<cmaloney> Hey, at least Apple gave Mac users a keyboard again
<cmaloney> I was being cheeky
<cmaloney> I use it for development as well
<jrwren> yay!
<cmaloney> rick_h_: So how are things going over there? Hunkered down?
<rick_h_> jrwren:  yea, definitely excited
<rick_h_> had to dogfood it for months now
<rick_h_> cmaloney:  yea, we're all planning on grocery shopping at 9pm for the week
<cmaloney> Might make that a few weeks
<cmaloney> We're going out for one of JoDee's friends (She's in her 60s)
<cmaloney> and also to get some more hunker down hunkering material
<cmaloney> since Meijer is cutting hours from 8:00 - 22:00
<jrwren> whoa, meijer is cutting hours?!? why?
<cmaloney> and allowing elderly and other compromised folks to shop at 7:00-8:00
<jrwren> oh good!
<cmaloney> Probably to reduce exposure time, and to give their staff time to restock
<cmaloney> and sanitize things
<cmaloney> I'd expect a lot of midnight shift folks
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> heard about cutting hours to have time w/o customers to clean/stock
<cmaloney> Yeah, it makes sense
<cmaloney> also going to be real fun for folks thinking they'll get things sorted by 9:45pm
<cmaloney> it'll be like Christmas Eve every night
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> "Whaddya mean you're closing"
<cmaloney> "i haven't finished shopping yet"
<cmaloney> "Yes, yes you have"
<jrwren> closing time.
<cmaloney> Damn you, now I have that song in my head
<jrwren> the weird al version I hope
<cmaloney> no
<gamerchick02> i didn't know Meijer was cutting hours, thanks for the heads up
<gamerchick02> i don't shop late anyway but it's nice to know in case i need something late, i'll have to wait til the morning
<Scary_Guy> Yeah, especially with all the xmas lights going up again.
<Scary_Guy> Fun fact.  Closing Time is a song about childbirth, which makes me hate the song even more.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-20
<cmaloney> Yes
<greg-g> a surprise rick_h_! I was just mentioning your trailer trip here recently and missed you
<greg-g> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/19/california-governor-issues-statewide-order-to-stay-at-home-effective-thursday-evening.html
<greg-g> all of CA is shelter in place as of tonight
<rick_h_> greg-g:  ah howdy. Welcome to lock down city
<cmaloney> CHC next week is online again: https://gettogether.community/events/4809/coffee-house-coders-regular-meeting/
<rick_h_> cmaloney:  cool
<cmaloney> Yep. Still going. :)
<jrwren> man... i'm writing a tiny bit of python, and I've forgotten so much python and going from Go to python makes me feel that python is just a terrible langauge.
<rick_h_> hah
<mrgoodcat> try js
<jrwren> ugh. no ty.
 * cmaloney has a sad because Python is beautiful
<jrwren> its probably less python and more the way this particular huge tree data structure is built in python that is my gripe.
<cmaloney> but yeah, Python Unicode is really a mess
<cmaloney> even with 3 it's still more than I care to think about stuff
<jrwren> hasattr(python, "beautiful") returns false, bro.
<cmaloney> try the same with go
<cmaloney> pretty sure it'll do the same
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> nope, Go simply won't compile.
<cmaloney> See? Failing silently is a good thing.
<jrwren> hahahaha
<jrwren> explains some silently failing apps that I know are python... like launchpad ;)
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'll grant you that. Python is not great with bad data
<cmaloney> like Launchpad. ;)
<cmaloney> Too many times I've had something like this
<cmaloney> if condition:
<cmaloney> if condition is not None and condition:
<cmaloney> if condition is not None and condition is True:
<cmaloney> if condition is not none and isinstance(condition, (bool)):
<cmaloney> etc.
<mrgoodcat> in js you simply have if (typeof condition === "boolean" && condition)
<mrgoodcat> ~beautiful~
<cmaloney> in JS you just give up all hope
<cmaloney> and hide console.log
<mrgoodcat> hide console.log?
<mrgoodcat> behind a logging framework you mean?
<cmaloney> just in general. No more warnings. ;)
 * cmaloney is being facetious
<jrwren> um... triple equals isn't type equality in js, so...
<jrwren> or is it?
<cmaloney> It's place-in-memory equality (is how I remember it)
<cmaloney> which is technically incorrect, obviously
<cmaloney> because I am full of incorrect information
<cmaloney> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Equality_comparisons_and_sameness
<Scary_Guy> I figure everything is online until further notice.
<Scary_Guy> The 2600 group that meets in A2 is doing a telco bridge call-in the first Friday of the month 248-724-2600 (or call in whenever, maybe others will join, the bot mentions it in IRC when someone does)
<Scary_Guy> I came up with an idea for a Mumble/IRC integration.  Pretty sure the IRC spec doesn't really allow for that, so the client would need to shadow servers/channels.
<jrwren> if "x" in o and o["x"] == foo:  oh python.
<cmaloney> jrwren: o.get('x') == foo
<jrwren> nope.
<jrwren> cmaloney: you wish, but python.
<jrwren> i wish too... but python.
<cmaloney> no, it works. :)
<jrwren> nope.
<cmaloney> it'll get X or none
<jrwren> KeyError: 'x''
<cmaloney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GVXPhJ75g4/
<cmaloney> It'll retrieve None if it doesn't exist
<cmaloney> which may be a separate issue
<jrwren> python2, ordereddict
<jrwren> the fact that we are even arguing about it is proof that python isn't very good.
<jrwren> I'm about to tell me team that I can't write python.
<cmaloney> Well, a) Ordered Dict in Python 2 is no longer supported (Python2)
<cmaloney> Also ordereddict should support the same .get syntax
<jrwren> i assure you it doesn't.
<cmaloney> though you might need to put .get('x', None)
<jrwren> yes, that's probably what I want.
<jrwren> still, that is garbage.
<jrwren> python is terrible.
<jrwren> can I use perl instead?
<cmaloney> no, because it's not 2003
<cmaloney> Also: what is Perl? :)
<cmaloney> Is this ordered dict somehow part of a scraper?
<jrwren> no.
<jrwren> also, I read what you wrote wrong and you've been right all along.
<cmaloney> <3
<cmaloney> Python is great
<jrwren> no, python is still terrible.
<jrwren> i'll be glad to never use it again.
<cmaloney> You're allowed to be wrong again
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> because, how do you do get("",None) for a bool?
<jrwren> is None true or false?
<jrwren> its all so backwards.
<jrwren> not to mention I just don't want to use it now.
<jrwren> and what we want is everything.
<cmaloney> You can use something other than None
<cmaloney> like False
<cmaloney> it just defalts to None because None is more correct than False or 0
<jrwren> why can't I use Go? ;)
<cmaloney> Because you're not an intern at Google? :)
<cmaloney> You've got this
<jrwren> nope.
<cmaloney> Stop fighting it
<cmaloney> just let the zen of Python wash over you
<jrwren> can't do it.
<cmaloney> ooommm
<cmaloney> I said OOOM MOFO
<jrwren> the zen of python is bullshit compared to the proverbs of go.
<jrwren> I graduated python. I wrote plenty of it for years.
<jrwren> I've moved beyond it.
<cmaloney> You should do it in Rust
<jrwren> so far beyond it that I can't even understand it.
<rick_h_> jrwren:  has ascended his conciousness
<jrwren> ugh rust... i'll keep my garbage collection TYVM
<jrwren> i'm just salty cuz I already wrote this in Go, it works, but we haven't rewrote all of it in Go, so I ahve to write it in python too.
<jrwren> and I've no idea how to do it.
<rick_h_> just needs more metaclasses, and f-strings, and ...
<jrwren> ugh.
<mrgoodcat> i missed programming language talk :(
<jrwren> really more jrwren being grumpy talk
<cmaloney> Yes, more jrwren being wrong talk
<cmaloney> (I do this from a place of love. :) )
<rick_h_> hah
<jrwren> python was great for its time.
<jrwren> thankfully, its time is gone.
<rick_h_> hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-21
<jrwren> how I'll finally upgrade from gigabit? https://www.anandtech.com/show/12852/aquantia-multigig-single-chip-usb-30-to-5g25g-dongles-coming-soon
<Scary_Guy> https://www.amazon.com/Emulex-Ethernet-Virtual-49Y7952-Renewed/dp/B07T43Z5TM/ref=sr_1_36?dchild=1&keywords=10gbe&qid=1584816547&sr=8-36 wow 10GBE is CHEAP, at least for the cards
<Scary_Guy> There has to be a catch
<Scary_Guy> Like they're proprietary or they send you a turd in the mail instead or something right?
<jrwren> well, that is cheap because it is obsolete.
<jrwren> that isn't PCIe
<jrwren> I have a couple of 10Gbe nics from ebay and they SUCK
<jrwren> they are ancient and so they misbehave with modern hardware.
<jrwren> they take over booting and you can't turn that off.
<jrwren> and then they hang.
<cmaloney> Oh, that's handy
<Scary_Guy> Makes sense
<Scary_Guy> Can't believe I didn't notice that was standard
