#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-18
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, :)
<charlie-tca> Trying
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-19
<charlie-tca> Time for something new... Let's see if I can upgrade to Natty already
<charlie-tca> Users can only hibernate by using root?
<charlie-tca> <MaximumResults> $ /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh
<charlie-tca> <MaximumResults> This utility may only be run by the root user.
<charlie-tca> Maverick
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-20
<ochosi> charlie-tca: what do you think of trying to adapt the Faenza icon-theme for natty?
<charlie-tca> I am not familiar with it
<ochosi> http://tiheum.deviantart.com/art/Faenza-Icons-173323228?q=boost%3Apopular+faenza&qo=2
<ochosi> it's not yet xfce-complete, but i could do that for natty
<ochosi> also: the folder-color would be more xubuntu-ish blue
<charlie-tca> Are we going to keep them visible on light/dark panels?
<ochosi> m, what exactly do you mean?
<charlie-tca> Oh, by the way, the artwork mailing list is getting things going again.
<ochosi> aha, didn't know there was a xubuntu-artwork mailing list
<ochosi> if you mean: bright icons on dark panels and vice versa then yes
<charlie-tca> Well, you know. the ones we have now kind of goes invisible on light panels now
<ochosi> not entirely true, just select the normal elementary theme
<charlie-tca> Those monochrome icons are really hard to see
<charlie-tca> But, we are early enough in the cycle to look at new ones and get things worked out, right?
<ochosi> you mean the ones in the Faenza preview?
<ochosi> yes, that's why i'm mentioning it
<charlie-tca> No, the elementary theme, I guess. Whatever we used in maverick
<ochosi> a-ha. well as long as you're ok with what you see in the link i sent you...
<ochosi> cause you can see the panel-icons in the preview as well
<ochosi> anyway, will be afk for a while (or maybe even the rest of today) now, ping me if you decide anything in this matter
<charlie-tca> They show up nicely there. I am hoping for something that works for accessibility in Natty. They look like they will work. 
<ochosi> well, you will get exactly what you see in this preview
<ochosi> ;)
<charlie-tca> I will grab them and try it, too.
<ochosi> (i'm not going to re-invent them)
<ochosi> sure, go ahead
<ochosi> i think the toolbar-icons also work out pretty nicely
<ochosi> very good contrast on bright themes
<ochosi> (and i think we should continue with a bright theme)
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> I would like to keep the bright theme.
<ochosi> well, i guess i would rework it a bit for natty
<ochosi> but we can discuss that at some point
<ochosi> as i said, just ping me
<charlie-tca> Okay. thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-21
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I like the faenza icons
<charlie-tca> They do show up very well in my light panels
<ochosi> charlie-tca: good to hear
 * charlie-tca will wear an Ethanol hat to UDS
<StAlphonzo> I'm testing Xubuntu 10.10. There are some things I really love. The panels seem far superior to gnome panels, for instance. So much that I'm considering reading up on writing xfce panel applets. 
<StAlphonzo> how do they communicate with their surroundings, do they use dbus? Are there bindings for python? Are there any good introductory tutorials? :>
<ochosi> StAlphonzo: i would advise you to check in #xfce-dev ;)
<StAlphonzo> then I will. Thanks. :)
<StAlphonzo> except that channel is moderated. :)
<ochosi> ah. right, i forgot...
<ochosi> uhm, maybe start out in #xfce then ;)
<ochosi> if you're specifically interested in the panel, i think NSchermer is the current maintainer
<ochosi> and you can also start by checking out the goodies.xfce.org (even though the site is a bit... out of date)
<ochosi> in git.xfce.org you should find all the bindings and stuff
<charlie-tca> Okey dokey. It's official. I am upgrading my Xubuntu Maverick that works to Xubuntu Natty
<charlie-tca> apparently, Maverick did not break enough.
<ochosi> good luck ;)
<charlie-tca> well, you know. If there isn't any bad issues... :-)
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-23
<charlie-tca> lsb_release -a : Ubuntu natty (development branch) 11.04
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hi
<charlie-tca> Hello, ochosi 
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-17
 * lameGuy is an inquisitive idiot; please help
<lameGuy> does anyone know the process id/name for that annoying 'quick link' bar at the bottom of my xfce desktop?
<lameGuy> nvm, thanks for the help
<Olbi> hello
<Olbi> [15:24:47] <Olbi> I cant boot from 32 it img of Xubuntu
<Olbi> [15:25:12] <Olbi> checking on 3cds and 3 optical drive and allways same error, cant read from sectros
<Olbi> [15:25:41] <Olbi> it is LiveCD 32 bit Xubuntu 11.10
<Olbi> could some1 check this?
<arjano> salve! sono passato a xubuntu 11.10 da 11.04 pero adesso ogni volta mi fa entrare come ospite e mi chiede la password. cosa devo fare .grazie!
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<Unit193> Welcome back, charlie-tca!
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<ochosi> wb charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Had to pack and fly to Las Vegas to visit my other daughter
<charlie-tca> Anything important happen while I took the break?
<Unit193> Had a "nice" talk with a FSF person :P
<micahg> charlie-tca: yeah, we decided to skip P and move on to Q :)
<charlie-tca> Great!
<charlie-tca> I like that idea a lot
<micahg> charlie-tca: heh, just kidding, welcome back :)
<Unit193> What's the name?
<charlie-tca> What's what name?
<charlie-tca> P or Q
<Unit193> Q
<charlie-tca> P == Precise Pangolin, Q == Quebec Quandary?
<knome> Q = queer quelea?
<davmor2> Quintessential Quip
<madnick> Quality Quality
<knome> charlie-tca?
<charlie-tca> here
<micahg> \o/ we already have build failures from the xubuntu packageset
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/bugs/settings_windowmanager_style_buttonlayout.png
<knome> mr_pouit, ^ FIX IT
<knome> mr_pouit, the buttons not so descriptive...
<knome> mr_pouit, "PLUS" for stick???
<knome> mr_pouit, and the weird orange arrrow for minimize??
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-18
<knome> what time is the meeting on sunday?
<Unit193> 22:00 UTC
<knome> okay... that's a bit late
<knome> :P
<Unit193> 2011-10-23 at 22:00 UTC, can't make that one
<knome> yeah
<knome> the meetings wiki page says the next meeting is on 2011-10-03 :P
<Unit193> I checked topic, more handy
<knome> hah
<knome> ;)
<knome> i never read topics
<knome> now you have a proof
<Unit193> Heh, nice... It was right up there as I had to reboot :/
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<madnick> morning :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-19
<ochosi> hm, xubuntu news on omg, that's rare: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/10/how-to-enable-ubuntus-global-menu-in-xubuntu-11-10/
<cody-somerville> Is there going to be a CIVS vote for Xubuntu project lead?
<knome> cody-somerville, charlie announced we will have a vote in IRC only
<cody-somerville> That doesn't really work, especially when there are two candidates. No way to confirm eligibility of voters and or easy way to perform the Condorcet method.
<knome> cody-somerville, while i am one of the candidates, i am not the person who runs the election. please contact charlie today or tomorrow, to change the voting method, because he annonced no complaints about the vote can't be made after tomorrow
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> I'll send an e-mail.
<mr_pouit> it's probably overkill, unless you really want to vote NOTA (none of the above, so neither charlie nor knome)
<micahg> mr_pouit: are there any packages from Debian you don't want me to sync/merge?  I know not to take 4.9.x/4.10.x without a consult
<micahg> we're syncing from testing, so I'll only take something from there ATM
<mr_pouit> I don't think we've uploaded anything related to 4.9.x (I only put some of them in pkg-xfce svn)
<scott-work> if i'm not a member of any xubuntu team would i be able to vote?
<mr_pouit> micahg: I think you can wait for thunar 1.2.3-2 and 4.8.6-1 to reach testing (otherwise, pain with multiarch plugins)
<mr_pouit> apart from that, it should be fine
<mr_pouit> thanks ;-)
<mr_pouit> scott-work: afaik, you need to be in ~xubuntu-users
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, so stuff like ffmpegthumbnailer and other friends are ffine
<mr_pouit> micahg: yes, sure. However, tumbler 0.1.22-1 (syncable when it reaches testing) gained a gstreamer thumbnailer, so we won't use ffmpegthumbailer anymore.
<mr_pouit> *ffmpegthumbnailer
<micahg> \o/
<micahg> I'll try to do a weekly check for merges syncs and keep us up to date with testing
 * micahg also needs to update blueman 
<mr_pouit> hehe
<mr_pouit> micahg: for the exo multiarch issue, we'll have to introduce a new binary package, even in the oneiric sru i'm afraid
<micahg> ugh, ok
<knome> cody-somerville, IMO the concern about not being able to check voting eligibility is kind of ludicrous. anybody can create an LP account and add himself to the group anyway
<cody-somerville> This true.
<cody-somerville> At the very least, it lets people vote who aren't going to be able to make the meeting.
<knome> cody-somerville, "The leader is to be voted on during a Xubuntu community meeting."
<knome> cody-somerville, strategy document, written by you
<knome> cody-somerville, that doesn't let people who are absent to vote anyway
<cody-somerville> Yea, it is a strategy document written four years ago - not a constitution :P
<knome> if the strategy document is not to be followed, why write one?
<knome> it has also been updated recently
<knome> and change to that point could have been made too
<knome> but the project leader, nor anybody else, thought that was needed
<knome> it makes the strategy document recent, and respectable, enough
<Unit193> GPG signed emails (or gpg encrypted)
<cody-somerville> That makes no difference on if the current voting procedure is sufficient or not
<knome> cody-somerville, no, it just means the voting must be conducted during a xubuntu community meeting
<knome> unless/beofre the strategy document is changed, and that's too late already
<Pjotr> Hello, I would like to notify you of a particular bug in Xubuntu 11.10:
<Pjotr> My Xubuntu 11.10 is fully localized in Dutch. When I install LibreOffice Writer in Xubuntu 11.10 with software-center, the Dutch translations of LibreOffice aren't being pulled in automatically as well. Which they should.
<Pjotr> I have to run gnome-language-selector in order to get the missing translations. When I start gnome-language selector, it notifies me of it's own, that there are translation files waiting for me. I only have to click Install then.
<Pjotr> I've already reported it on Launchpad as well: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/878542
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 878542 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Installing Libre Office in Xubuntu 11.10, doesn't automatically pull in the translation as well" [Undecided,New]
<knome> i think that might have something to do with libreoffice (or its packaging) than xubuntu/software center
<knome> i'd say at least report that to libreoffice too, even if it proved invalid
<Pjotr> OK... I'll try to mark it for libreoffice as well in Launchpad, but I'm not sure whether LibreOffice is the culprit.... Shouldn't software-center handle the full installation of all relevant and supporting files of an application?
<Unit193> It only installs what the package says it needs
<knome> well, software center is just a GUI for apt, so apt maybe then.
<knome> but this is related to packaging afaik, not a bug in apt that just decided not to D/L the language support
<knome> tbh, i'm not even sure if this should be automatical
<micahg> not a bug in apt, software center maybe
<Pjotr> knome: it should be automatic allright. Always used to be, anyway (been using *buntu since 2006)
<knome> right
<knome> micahg, i'm glad that there's somebody who knows better than me ;)
<Pjotr> Well, this bug is not the end of the world, but it would be nice if you could find some time to fix it. :P
<knome> not xubuntu specific
<Pjotr> knome: maybe not.... can't properly test it in Ubuntu with LibreOffice though, because that's part of the default install...
<knome> mmh
<madnick> !glade
<madnick> hm, sorry, i shall privmsg the bot
<knome> hehe
<Pjotr> Maybe it's a broader issue. I might try installing GIMP in Ubuntu though; I think that's no longer part of a default Ubuntu install, and GIMP needs it's own translation files as well. I'll test it and let you k
<Pjotr> k = know
<knome> yeah. it's not by default in ubuntu
<Pjotr> OK... Just tested it. It's a braoder issue allright: software-center in Ubuntu didn't pull in the Dutch translations for GIMP
<Pjotr> had to run gnome-language-selector afterwards
<Pjotr> I'll change the bug description on Launchpad, accordingly.
<knome> :)
<Pjotr> OK, have to go now... Bye. :-)
<madnick> hm, i wonder how likley it is that LightDM will ship a Webkit greeter already
<madnick> The current one uses the old API and is, from what I understand, non functioning
<knome> will be back tomorrow, bye everybody! :) ->
<madnick> bye
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-20
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu session for OpenWeek starts in about 30 minutes
<scott-work> good morning charlie-tca , i declined this year to do one on ubuntu studio, just too damn busy with work, family at the moment
<charlie-tca> I took one to fill in the schedule, when they needed the slots filled. Then they added a whole extra hour
<scott-work> lol, that's slightly horrid
<charlie-tca> heh, yeah
<charlie-tca> but the sessions usually help get word out about the distribution, so it's okay
<madnick> hm, my friend just installed 11.10
<madnick> And he tells me, only the mouse works, and the UI is non responsive
<madnick> He cannot switch TTY
<madnick> I cant find a bug report on this
<madnick> But, he cannot report it, since IO does not work
<madnick> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1862210
<Unit193> Wish I could make it :/
<genii-around> charlie-tca: That went reasonably well.
<madnick> It was a good talk :)
<charlie-tca> madnick: I get that freeze on this laptop, usually it is firefox to blame, but I had to remove geany in 11.10 because it seems to be taking as much of the cpu as it can, also
<charlie-tca> I don't know why firefox does it, but it grabs cpu up to 100% when some scripts run, and it will take several minutes to unfreeze
<charlie-tca> geany was freezing the entire computer, not even the mouse would move here.
<madnick> Oh I see
<charlie-tca> twitter seems to have one of those scripts
<madnick> He reports he was using 
<madnick> the network applet in the panekl
<madnick> panel*
<madnick> so it might be a larger issues
<madnick> issue
<Unit193> I did miss a lot...
<charlie-tca> He could keep the Task Manager open, and maybe he will be able to spot the runaway application with it
<madnick> yup
<charlie-tca> That's how I caught geany. It showed geany using 56% of the cpu, and firefox had 46%
<madnick> I managed to get test-mode working for my LDM greeter :)
<charlie-tca> great!
<madnick> But Im unsure if its wise to start development already, if ldm api will change alot
<charlie-tca> Now we will have a new greeter, right?
<madnick> yes
<charlie-tca> It should change, but not too bad
<madnick> Question is when to start :P
<charlie-tca> You will be able to change it pretty easy, since most of the changes will happen to unity greeter itself
<madnick> Yeah, the more "massive" work is getting webkit up and interacting with the user
<madnick> LightDM hopefully ownt change badly
<madnick> But I think ill wait until we get a CD alteast
<madnick> The best part is that, when it does work, someone with much greater graphical skills than me can just design freely using CSS :P
<knome> charlie-tca, at what time today will you announce the nominations?
<charlie-tca> madnick: we don't get the cd until alpha1, which is Dec 1
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<charlie-tca> knome: I did not schedule a time. It's just an email to the ML
<knome> charlie-tca, i know. i was just asking if you had planned a time :)
<knome> lol, i'm using all 16MB's of the 7635MB google mailbox...
<madnick> :)
<xrdodrx> hi charlie-tca, I unfortunately couldn't make it to the session today in #ubuntu-classroom but I'm curious about plans on using Xfce 4.10 in Xubuntu 12.04...as Xfce 4.10 is a major release it would be good to push it in with the newest LTS, and it includes a lot of useful features such using thunar for the desktop...according to the Xfce roadmap Xfce 4.10pre1 should be out as early as 2011-11-06...
<xrdodrx> roadmap: http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.10/roadmap
<charlie-tca> xrdodrx: we will put Xfce 4.10 in Precise if possible. We have to wait and see if the dates move first. Xfce has a habit of not having enough developers to make things happen when they want them to.
<charlie-tca> We can't put a pre-release version in without making sure it won't cause too many issues.
<mr_pouit> the desktop plugin of thunar isn't ready for the moment
<xrdodrx> charlie-tca, would testing out/compiling the pre releases when they come help?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> We will not put them in unless mr_pouit okays it. He is the authority on what we do.
<charlie-tca> xrdodrx: I would suggest asking mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> for the moment, only 2 components (+xfce4-dev-tools) had 4.9.x pre-releases
<mr_pouit> so it's a bit too early
<mr_pouit> no more than 10~20% of what is planned on the roadmap has been done ;-]
<charlie-tca> We just have to wait until it gets to the point wwe can look at it.
<xrdodrx> mr_pouit, do you work with xfce upstream? 
<charlie-tca> xrdodrx: mr_pouit is an Xfce developer and founding member of the xfce foundation
<xrdodrx> i see
<xrdodrx> sorry guys, i thought the roadmap was more binding than it was apparentely :)
<xrdodrx> keep up the good work, i'll help in any way i can :D
<charlie-tca> no problem. We just went through the same situation with the upgrade to Xfce 4.8
<charlie-tca> Your questions and assistance is desired. We might find there is a way to make things happen, if the right question is presented. 
<charlie-tca> time frames on 4.8 moved for about a year or so, trying to get all the pieces together enough to have it usable. 
<charlie-tca> We have hopes it will be smoother for 4.10
<xrdodrx> charlie-tca, How did it go for 4.8? I started using Xfce [and Xubuntu] at that version and had never used it prior
<charlie-tca> bumpin g
<charlie-tca> well, bumpy
<charlie-tca> We did push 4.8 into natty before it went final
<charlie-tca> but the times move so much, we really had to wait over 6 months past our original goal
<charlie-tca> That's one of the reasons xfce-places-plugin did not get into natty by default.
<charlie-tca> It just wasn't ready yet
<xrdodrx> I see...that's unfortunate. :( I imagined that with GNOME 3 maybe Xfce would get a little more love ;) but most of that love was from end users, not developers 
<charlie-tca> We were only able to test it for a a couple of weeks, too
<charlie-tca> yeah, unfortunately, increasing users doesn't help development so much
<charlie-tca> Most of the Xfce developers are volunteers, just like for Xubuntu, and their time is very limited
<Unit193> If anyone else missed it and really wanted to attend: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/20/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t16:00
<mr_pouit> well, i'm only an xfce contributor (not developer ;-)
<xrdodrx> Unit193, i read it over, and here i was all this time pronouncing xubuntu "ecks ubuntu"
<xrdodrx> :P
<Unit193> I say X ubuntu, I claimed not to know (but I did), now that's gone down the drain...
<Unit193> I liked how honest he was
<madnick> I say X Ubuntu :(
<madnick> Zoobuntu is right, right? ;)
 * knome says *ksu-buntu"
<knome> i don't care how you pronounce it
<knome> as long as you use it
<xrdodrx> well Unit193 i just assumed it was "ecks ubuntu" because "xfce" is pronounced "ecks eff sea ee" http://wiki.xfce.org/faq#about_xfce
<knome> and enjoy it
<xrdodrx> :P
<knome> ksu-buntu is much more natural when you speak finnish
<Unit193> Only thing I didn't quite agree with, Thunderbird isn't exactly lightweight, but it's the best (for a GUI client)
<knome> (or kzo(o)-buntu)
<knome> Unit193, true.
<knome> charlie-tca, is the agenda correct at Xubuntu/Meetings?
<charlie-tca> yes?
<knome> charlie-tca, i was just wondering because the agenda says: Nominations will close October 20, 2011, and the community election will be held at the meeting on October 23, 2011. If there are issues with this, please let us know between now and October 20. 
<charlie-tca> madnick: yes
<knome> charlie-tca, i mean, it's good to have that in the minutes since that was current on the last meeting, but in the agenda for the next meeting? :)
<charlie-tca> and that was put up since nominations opened
<charlie-tca> Most of the people realize that if they are reading it past the 20th, it expired.
<knome> i realize that too, but i just wondered if the agenda was correct otherwise because of that point
<charlie-tca> yes, it is correct
<knome> okay
<charlie-tca> I put the announcement out. 
<knome> also can we maybe move the election more to the beginning of the meeting - maybe not the dead beginning, but you realize the meeting starts at 1AM local time...
<charlie-tca> I realize the meeting time is not optimum for all users. However, The updates should be quite quick, since we released Xubuntu 11.10
<knome> maybe move the old business after the governance?
<charlie-tca> Since we are world-wide, the meeting will be at bad times for a lot of people
<charlie-tca> Are you planning on being long winded about something?
<charlie-tca> I expect the entire meeting to be under 1 hour, easily.
<knome> i hope that's true too
<knome> i do have one more little thing for other business (which i'm about to add in a sec)
<charlie-tca> Since we can not finalize anything until after UDS, I don't see old business taking much time.
<knome> i was just asking if it was possible to change the order, that's all
<knome> i that's not possible, fine
<charlie-tca> We keep the format as close to the same each time as possible, because it helps everyone trying to attend and follow along. 
<knome> btw, since we seem to have more traffic in #xubuntu-offtopic, and a few not-so-nice situations, do you think you could add operator privileges for me there as well?
<charlie-tca> Juggling the order does make it harder for those who attend each meeting
<charlie-tca> I thought you never went in there?
<knome> i've been there now, since we've had a lot of users come in @#xubuntu and chatting about gnome and stuff
<knome> this is pretty much after oneiric release
<knome> that's why i am asking this now, not then
<charlie-tca> okay, you got your cheat sheet handy for adding ops?
<knome> just a sec
<knome> i need to check how to do that...
<charlie-tca> I am looking, will make the changes
<knome> the flags you want to add is +votriA
<knome> can you also add me +r in #xubuntu-devel (able to unban)
<charlie-tca> sure, what was the command?
<knome> just one more moment... :)
<knome> /msg chanserv access #xubuntu-offtopic add knome +votriA
<knome> should do it
<knome> and the same for #xubuntu-devel 
<charlie-tca> should be done for offtopic
<knome> looks correct :)
<knome> and works too
<knome> thanks
<charlie-tca> got them all done
<charlie-tca> Thanks for your help
<knome> yep, that's correct
<knome> thanks, it's much appreciated
<knome> looks like i have ops in channels i didn't know
<charlie-tca> did I do it?
<knome> nope
<charlie-tca> Whew!
<knome> heh :)
<knome> unless you edited the access list for #ubuntu-fi-en
<charlie-tca> Don't think so
<knome> me neither
<knome> i can't remember when i last joined that channel though
<knome> now i did, said something quite strange and parted :)
<knome> one thing we should probably think once we get the new website running is articles about xfce/gnome difference, and lightdm, as i said earlier :)
<knome> many people seem to be wondering about that, or just look lost
<charlie-tca> They are lost. They read a blog about how Xfce is exactly like Gnome2, and they install it. Then they find out "oops, it isn't the same. Why not?"
<knome> yeah.
<knome> which blog says xfce is like gnome2?
<knome> we should comment those too
<charlie-tca> about half the ones being written
<charlie-tca> I tend to not bother tracking them. I have other more important stuff I am concerned with
<charlie-tca> I asked several times for someone to volunteer to track these things, and got no response.
<knome> frankly, i think i've missed that, but on the other hand, work on this fall hasn't allowed me much "extra" foss work
<knome> the best we can do is write an article, or two, or more, on that
<knome> (seems like it)
<charlie-tca> Yes, got someone volunteering to write one?
<knome> i can do that once we get the website up
<knome> i'm willing to write to yet an another blog... (i only contribute to three now)
<knome> :)
<charlie-tca> Okay. I will see everyone later. Back to vacation here.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-21
<lev_> Hey everyone
<lev_> join #xubuntu
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<GridCube> :D good morning charlie-tca 
 * GridCube is a hacker now 
<charlie-tca> oh?
<GridCube> :D i discovered the proxy settings for my university that doesnt block irc :D
<charlie-tca> Great
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> indeed
<GridCube> so charlie-tca :) im working on the last version of XTC :D
<GridCube> im having a few problems on the search results part
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: SURPRISE of the day! 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-October/034275.html
<GridCube> probably because im not very smart
<charlie-tca> can we support a 5 year desktop?
<mr_pouit> we don't even really support 18 months releases ;-)
<charlie-tca> Well, discussions with "flavors" seems to have left me out of the loop
<charlie-tca> Maybe we should discuss not supporting any release more than 18 months?
<genii-around> Five year support will mean 3 concurrent LTS releases at times
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> Well, we have that already for server. They want to extend the desktop support to 5 years for LTS
<charlie-tca> Well, looks like discussions are over...
<charlie-tca> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2011/10/21/ubuntu-12-04-to-feature-extended-support-period-for-desktop-users/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ubuntu-news+%28Ubuntu+News%29
<charlie-tca> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2011/10/21/ubuntu-12-04-to-feature-extended-support-period-for-desktop-users/
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ^  ^  ^
<madnick> This sounds like good news :)
<GridCube> i think it sound like mixed news, by one side it means that users can stay whit a single interface for long time, something people actually like, like XP did for example, people just liked it, but from other point the new releases will be far too different 4 or 5 years later to people be confortable whit change
<charlie-tca> madnick: we have problems trying to fix things that broke two years ago already in LTS releases, how will we keep it usable for 5 years?
<charlie-tca> It also means three LTS releases supported at the same time, since we have a new one every two years
<madnick> Well, it will be hard, but for users it sounds pretty good if its possible to coupe
<charlie-tca> It sounds very close to impossible from the developer side, at least for us.
<GridCube> :/ yes i can understand that
<charlie-tca> lucid is an LTS release. It has Xfce 4.6 in it. We will be at Xfce 4.12 or 4.14 when it dies?
<charlie-tca> Well, going enjoy my vacation now. I'll see everyone Sunday at the meeting! 2011-10-23 at 22:00 UTC
<Unit193> Adios! Have a good one
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-22
<plantoschka> hiho :)
<Pjotr> Hello, can anybody tell me who I can contact about fixing this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/868613
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 868613 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "lightdm-gtk-greeter in Xubuntu, has three untranslatable items" [Medium,Triaged]
<Pjotr> A patch has been submitted (twice, in fact, by thow different people). So fixing it should be easy and quick. Yet it hasn't been done yet, and I don't know who I can ask to do it.
<Pjotr> Another question, or rather a feature request: I'd like to see the option in xfce4-power-manager in Xubuntu, to make a laptop shutdown when I close the lid. Now this option is not there....
<knome> Pjotr, the bug will be in oneiric SRU, as sebastien bacher told you
<Pjotr> knome: yes, I know. But I'd like to see it fixed for 12.04. No delay needed, it can be fixed quickly. Then I can alert the other translators, that they can translate the three remaining strings. :-)
<knome> the delay comes from the ubuntu release strategy
<Pjotr> knome: can you explain that? I don't understand.
<knome> in short, oneiric is updated now
<knome> only critical+some other updates will get through for everybody
<knome> they will be released on oneiric in SRU's (stable release update)
<knome> the SRU's are named 10.04.1-3 on LTS's
<knome> in non-LTS, there are no specific names afaik, but still, once the version is released, one can't make updates for it infinitely and all the time
<knome> because things should be fixed in the next version, unless they are critical
<Pjotr> I see. When can I expect to see it fixed for 12.04 Precise Pangolin? With alpha 1 or so?
<knome> the toolkit for precise is set after uds
<knome> after that changes are possible
<knome> before that, it's technically impossible to have it in precise
<Pjotr> OK, thanks. :-)
<knome> np
<Pjotr> Now about this xfce4-power-manager thing I just mentioned: do you happen to know anything about that?
<knome> you probably should ask mr_pouit, he should probably know why it's not available/working
<Pjotr> I'll do that. Thanks for your time. 
<GridCube> good morning :)
<pleia2> knome: can I get a login to your wiki so I can work on your site todo list?
<pleia2> would be good to add other notes there (like what redirects we need)
<pleia2> and never got a reply from WPML :(
<knome> pleia2, sure
<knome> pleia2, you should have email at lyz(at)yourdomain
<knome> bbl ->
<pleia2> ty knome <3
<pleia2> all news posts from drupal are now in the new wordpress install
<pleia2> ok, copied over the rest of the pages and updated the todo wiki
<knome> pleia2, nice!!
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> went into drupal for full lists of stuff, so that's everything
<knome> yeah
<knome> tahnks
<knome> we need to get the newest plugin revision in
<knome> then i can get to fixing the css
<knome> so since we didn't make the oneiric release, let's make it all be near perfect on first shot
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> i have a similar ticket with ubuntu studio pending too ;)
<pleia2> working on their site too?
<knome> yup
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/wordpress/
<pleia2> cool
<knome> note the JS "featured" tabs
<pleia2> ooh
<knome> and yeah, that is *working under wordpress*
<pleia2> :D
<knome> and you can edit/add the tabs like normal pages too...
<Unit193> Request: Install gvfs-backends by default :P
<knome> mm-hmm
<mr_pouit> I already fixed that in the seeds for precise =]
<Unit193> Thank you very much
<knome> is there something for about Â£12 that one should order from amazon?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-23
<beardygnome> knome: good luck for the vote today
<beardygnome> is there anywhere where you and charlie have outlined your plans for the next 3 releases?
<knome> beardygnome, thanks :)
<knome> i have, in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/XPL
<beardygnome> thanks
<GridCube> good morning :)
<knome> ning
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> good morning
<knome> evening
<pleia2> morning
<knome> oh hai pleia2 :)
<pleia2> g'day knome!
<madnick> morning :)
<ochosi> hi everyone
<ochosi> charlie-tca: what voting procedure will we use tonight?
<beardygnome> hi charlie-tca
<beardygnome> do you have an outline of your plans for the next 3 releases?
<charlie-tca> We will use the meeting bot and vote. I will advise you should belong to xubuntu-users team to vote. 
<charlie-tca> There's 500 + members of the team, so I don't plan to verify each and every person, unless there is a complaint
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: no, My outlines match what Ubuntu decides, most of the time
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: you will only have validate the poeple who vote though?
<beardygnome> *people
<beardygnome> and last time we had a vote, we only had about 8 voters, didn't we?
<charlie-tca> Depends on how many vote. If we had 100 people voting, it would take too long to verify each one, wouldn't it?
<charlie-tca> I think we had 9 votes last time
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: of course, but do you think we'll get a lot voting?
<beardygnome> it would be nice if we did, though :-)
<charlie-tca> I would love to see 500 votes today
<charlie-tca> but, I suspect we will be lucky to see 20
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: this hasn't changed much, I still would like to see Xubuntu keep improving.
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CharlieKravetz/XubuntuProjectLeadNomination
<charlie-tca> I believe we did grow over the last year, and we have some really good contributors that have become active now
<charlie-tca> But there should always be room to improve. If we have reached the top, we will have no place to go but down
<charlie-tca> knome: I will have you say something about why you should be elected today.
<charlie-tca> I am thinking 3-4 line intro and a wiki page to review, then give people a couple of minutes to review it.
<knome> charlie-tca, sure, though i think my wikipage serves the intro too
<knome> charlie-tca, but yeah, i can say a few words
<charlie-tca> It does, but words said in person, as " My wiki page outlines my project plan" always helps.
<charlie-tca> It is up to you, either way
<knome> sure
<knome> no problem there
<knome> bbl
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in about 5 hours (22:00 UTC). Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<micahg> charlie-tca: eh? about 3 hrs
<knome> heh
<knome> :))
<charlie-tca> Is my clock wrong?
<charlie-tca> or is it my brain today?
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in about 3 hours (22:00 UTC). Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> got it right now? ^ ^
<pleia2> yep :)
 * knome will be watching a movie
<knome> see you later :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: in which channel will we elect? here?
<charlie-tca> yes, here
<ochosi> charlie-tca: thanks
<micahg> mr_pouit: bug 880518, I still have the issue as well, I think it's fixed for new installs, but not for upgrades
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 880518 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Xfce desktop - Nautilus takes over" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880518
<mr_pouit> mmh, feel free to reopen it then ;-)
<mr_pouit> I thought it was the classic issue ('nautilus' used instead of 'nautilus --no-desktop')
<micahg> well, it's not supposed to autostart anymore except in gnome and unity and it still is, so this leads me to believe it's stored somewhere in the session, I haven't tested this theory yet though (maybe I should :))
<mr_pouit> if the xfce session was saved while nautilus was running, then indeed, it'll restart each time
<mr_pouit> (there's a bug in the session-menu panel plugin, which always save the session regardless of xfce4-session's settings)
<mr_pouit> I patched it in oneiric, so it should be fine for new installs
<mr_pouit> but if existing installs have a .cache/sessions/* with nautilus in it, I guess it makes your issue
<micahg> nope, I don't have that :(
<mr_pouit> some other mystery then ;-)
<serfus> i am not sure i have understand who is eligible to vote today
<Unit193> People in this group https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users (You are)
<serfus> right i am :-)
<serfus> seems a bit irresponsible to me
<serfus> as it is a open group
<GridCube> :D an hour and a half?
<serfus> and how can one make sure a voter is really on that list
<serfus> group i mean
<serfus> i mean, i joined only an hour ago and already i can vote?
<serfus> though i will not
 * serfus will be sleeping anyhow
<charlie-tca> serfus: as an all volunteer group, what would be a better to say all who contribute/use Xubuntu can vote?
<serfus> it's an open door to all sorts of trolls and unwanted users who can influence the results
<serfus> wouldn't it be wise to use the Xubuntu Team on launchpad?
<charlie-tca> um, no
<charlie-tca> That team is only by approval of the existing Project Lead. 
<charlie-tca> What stops him/her from stacking it for themselves?
<serfus> i guess one should trust the project lead not to do so
<micahg> heh, charlie-tca could be our cabdfl
<serfus> i hope he is trust worthy
<charlie-tca> +1
<charlie-tca> serfus: our guide is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<charlie-tca> I guess if we are important for trolls to influence the results, we will look at making changes to it.
<serfus> are you not afraid of what i said before?
<charlie-tca> Up to this point, we have not had a problem
<charlie-tca> All nine voters last election were honest
<serfus> okay, got you
<charlie-tca> So were the 12 the election before that
<serfus> if it's a small number, i guess people know one another
<micahg> charlie-tca: since I'm in Chicago can I vote twice :D
<charlie-tca> :)
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 45 minutes (22:00 UTC). Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<GridCube> :D 25 minutes
<ochosi> GridCube: we need a countdown bot (at least when you're not around ;) )
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> today's election day :D i like democracy
<knome> heh
<ochosi> GridCube: yup, this will be fun :)
<knome> if i'm elected as the PL, i'll give you a countdown bot!! :P
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> very nice
<GridCube> :D oh promises!
<knome> should i add that to my wikipage? :P
<ochosi> knome: yeah, please add an election-candy section ;)
<knome> hehe
<knome_local> hey peeps. i fired this client up just because my irc was lagging seconds ago
<knome_local> so if something happens with my shell, i'll be shouting from here
<charlie-tca> Works for me
<knome_local> yup, just wanted to tell you so you don't think i'm spawning to get more votes :PP
<charlie-tca> Hadn't thought of that one.
<charlie-tca> So, we will only see a vote from one name, right?
<knome_local> yeah, definitely
<knome_local> this is just because my shell might drop any time
<charlie-tca> I am not feeding the meeting bot a 500 name voter list, though
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah
<knome> i was thinking a simple vote for tonight since it's just you and me
<knome> +1 for you, -1 for me
<knome> if the outcome is positive, you win, negative, i win
<knome> you can give 0 too to vote nobody, and we can even check if we got more 0's than votes for either
<knome> but that's just technical stuf
<knome> +f
<GridCube> 6 minutes and counting
<charlie-tca> I was going to try that, but I am afraid it will confuse people. I think just call for two votes
<ochosi> GridCube: does your countdown take into account that the voting might not be in the beginning of the meeting?
<knome> charlie-tca, worksforme too
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> ochosi, its for the !starmeeting point 
<charlie-tca> I just want it to work this time, without the mess of the last transition
<ochosi> GridCube: you know, i'm afraid we might have to replace you with a better countdown bot ;D
<knome> charlie-tca, sure, we all want that stuff work :)
<charlie-tca> smooth transition might let us get CC approval for the council
<ochosi> council would be nice
<GridCube> D: but is 3 minutes and counting ochosi !
<knome> some beer would also be nice
<madnick> GridCube: its 1 minute
<pleia2> only worry about a council right now is that it would be made up of half the team :)
<madnick> :D
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: if you have two votes, how do you stop people voting for both of you?
<ochosi> pleia2: haha, good point
<knome> beardygnome, no way to stop that, but isn't that the same as voting "0" in the single vote?
<charlie-tca> I suppose you can vote for both if you really want to
<charlie-tca> We will have to vote until we have a winner
<charlie-tca> pleia2: but we are gaining members again.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: yes! so maybe next year :)
<GridCube> :D
<knome> heh, "let's vote again with same people voting the same way"
<knome> that'll the infinity
<charlie-tca> We just got to keep hoping we build enough up to keep things going
<beardygnome> charlie-tca, knome: yes, it is, but i think a single vote would be easier
<GridCube> ITS ELECTION MEETING TIME!! \o/
<knome> beardygnome, me too
<knome> beardygnome, but i'm okay with two votes too
<beardygnome> how about everyone just says "charlie" or "knome" when we vote?
<knome> beardygnome, the bot can't log that
<beardygnome> then we count the number for each?
<beardygnome> do we need the bot to log it?
<knome> beardygnome, +1/-1 is way easier, and the bot gets the number automatically, no room for human error there :)
 * charlie-tca waves at the crowd
<beardygnome> it will be in the channel log for all to see
<charlie-tca> let's get this meeting started
<knome> beardygnome, i think at least that, to make the vote at least somewhat valid
<knome> sure!
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting Xubuntu
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Oct 23 22:02:59 2011 UTC.  The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<charlie-tca> The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<GridCube> do we o/ for the bot to count us?
<charlie-tca> #topic OLD BUSINESS
<pleia2> I can't stay long (have some furniture to pick up) :\
<charlie-tca> no, we will all be counted when voting
<GridCube> ok
<knome> pleia2, meh you
<charlie-tca> All old business is carried forward for the next Project Lead to bring forward.
<charlie-tca> #topic === Team updates ===
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Packaging & Development ====
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I have seen a bug report on 12.04 already, but prefer to ignore it until we at least all the merges and syncs done
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: your floor, do you have any updates this early?
<knome> (and toolkit uploaded?)
<mr_pouit> micahg started to do some syncs (I haven't even looked at precise yet ;-)
<charlie-tca> toolchain uploaded already
<knome> oh!
<charlie-tca> Okay, mr_pouit 
<micahg> o/
<knome> (i thought it was after uds. sorry for distrupting)
<mr_pouit> there have been many bugs filed against oneiric recently too
<charlie-tca> yes, the increase in users is showing up rapidly
<charlie-tca> micahg: ?
<micahg> I just wanted to say that an SRU for blueman is planned by me, just not sure if it'll happen before UDS
<charlie-tca> Great!
<knome> o/
<charlie-tca> That will take out a couple of bugs
<mr_pouit> Bug #878682, Bug #877811 and Bug #878069 might also be SRU'able
<charlie-tca> knome: ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 878682 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Fresh install of Xubuntu 11.10 misses gvfs-backends package" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878682
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 877811 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "DirectoryMenu plugin "Open in Terminal" doesn't work" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877811
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 878069 in exo (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Mailto helpers broken on !i386 in 0.6.2-2" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878069
<knome> can we get a newer version of ristretto in oneiric too? it crashes if you are using thumbnailbar, but i heard that's fixed in 0.1.0
<knome> (as SRU) + ..
<micahg> mr_pouit: yeah, I can look at those (I know the last one will have to wait until exo makes it into testing/unstable)
<mr_pouit> micahg: it's in unstable now ;-)
 * GridCube was going to propose we ditch ristretto for gpicviewer
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ristretto should be SRU able, isn't it?
<micahg> mr_pouit: oops, meant testing/precise :)
 * beardygnome supports GridCube
<micahg> charlie-tca: we don't usually SRU major version updates (I think blueman might be an exception since it's all bug fix)
<ochosi> GridCube: you should try what's in git now, it really has evolved a lot
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: knome: I haven't looked at the diff between 0.0.93 and 0.1.x, but I guess it's too big
<GridCube> ochosi, :) will try
<knome> GridCube, ristretto's got a lot of enhancements lately, so i'd say let's check that first too, and compare that to gpicviewer
<knome> mr_pouit, :(
<charlie-tca> blueman we got permission for before release
<micahg> ristretto 0.1.0 was a total rewrite IIRC
<knome> mostly, yes
<knome> can we at least investigate that?
<micahg> knome: we can backport it
<charlie-tca> Well, if ristretto can not be done, we will at least get the new version in Precise
<micahg> charlie-tca: already there ;)
<charlie-tca> Okay
<micahg> 0.2.0 will be coming after UDS
<charlie-tca> Anything else for development?
<mr_pouit> if psybsd didn't rewrite ristretto between 0.0.93 and 0.1.0, I can try to make a patch to fix issues
<knome> so if possible, let's try to get ristretto 0.1.0 in for oneiric as SRU or backport.
<mr_pouit> (but I think he rewrote many things ;-)
<micahg> if there's a crash and there's a sensible patch, we can SRU that
<charlie-tca> We will at least look at it
<knome> thanks. or micahg or mr_pouit can PPA it
<knome> .
<charlie-tca> anything else?
<micahg> knome: let's use backports, if you want to file the bug, I can get a test build up
<knome> micahg, i can do that. :)
<micahg> knome: against oneiric-backports
<knome> thanks
<GridCube> o/
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<charlie-tca> GridCube: ?
<GridCube> can i ask something, that bothering me, why do you changed exaile for gmusicbrowser?
<GridCube> can't we go back to it?
<micahg> exaile uses hal so no :P
<knome> can we cover that on "other business" ?
<charlie-tca> I have wondered the same thing. It seems like we lost the ability to play cd's in that switch
<GridCube> ok
<knome> it isn't really team update
<GridCube> ..
<knome> ..
<charlie-tca> correct
<micahg> well, there's a branch for de-hal-ing it
<micahg> oh, wait, we have parole, don't we?
<knome> micahg! behave! :P ..
<charlie-tca> as to bugs and testing, we will begin testing Precise the first week of December. Alph1 is due the 1st, and daily testing up to then is spotty
<GridCube> :D my new testing interface is ready :D
<charlie-tca> #subtopic ==== Website & Marketing ====
<charlie-tca> Where are we on the website transition?
<knome> we're still pending on IS to get the latest plugin version in
 * beardygnome thinks it looks good
<knome> after that, we need one more plugin/theme update, after that it is all about content (which is already copied over by pleia2)
<knome> so we're maybe about 1-3 weeks from going live (realistic estimation)
<knome> ..
<pleia2> I did a full audit of the old site yesterday and shared notes for what we need to review
<charlie-tca> Great! That would be fantastic
<pleia2> all the news is pulled over, 26 articles!
<pleia2> ..
<knome> i look forward to writing as much articles per release!
<knome> ..
<pleia2> knome: +1
<charlie-tca> I haven't seen any reviews yet from our bloggers
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: guess you missed http://beardygnome.co.uk/2011/10/22/oneiric-ocelot-arrives/ then
<charlie-tca> Artwork and Documentation should be discussed later, I think, as in next meeting
<knome> i can write one, but that wouldn't be so positive, since my upgrade miserably failed :(
<beardygnome> :-)
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: I did
<knome> charlie-tca, agreed. nothing happening in those areas now
<charlie-tca> I was hoping to get that into the website news, too, which puts it in planet
<ochosi> knome: hey! i'm still fixing greybird-gtk3 bugs ;)
<beardygnome> i can't say i've publicised it...
<knome> ochosi, hehe.. :)
<charlie-tca> #topic === Announcements ===
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu is going to move to a 5 year release schedule for LTS releases.
<charlie-tca>     We will need to seriously consider Xubuntu's ability to support this plan.
<charlie-tca>     Staying with Ubuntu release cycles will mean supporting 12.04 for 5 years. 
<charlie-tca> I am not willing to take this up before the election.
<charlie-tca> #topic === Xubuntu Governance ===
<charlie-tca> * The governancy part of the current Strategy Document can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Governance_.26_Team_Structure
<charlie-tca> drumroll please...
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: they already do 5 year support, don't they?
<charlie-tca> Only for servers
<knome> (beardygnome, 3 for desktop)
<charlie-tca> They are going to 5 year support for desktops
<beardygnome> oh, sorry, hadn't heard that
<charlie-tca> #subtopic Nominations for Xubuntu Project Lead
<beardygnome> ..
<charlie-tca> We have two nominees for this election today
<charlie-tca> Myself, and the esteemed knome
 * knome bows
<charlie-tca> I would like knome to introduce himself and will give a few minutes to him.
<charlie-tca> knome: go ahead, sikr
<charlie-tca> knome: go ahead, sir
<knome> hello everybody!
<knome> i'm pasi lallinaho, a geek and a foss enthusiast from finland
<knome> i've been working with ubuntu since 2008, also as the xubuntu marketing lead for over a year
<knome> in 2009, i founded the shimmer project, via which i've continuously have contributed to xubuntu
<knome> you can read more at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/XPL - a shortlist of my bigger contributions to ubuntu is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/
<knome> thanks ..
<charlie-tca> Lest any one decide to vote based on my and knome's interactions. Be aware, we do not see eye to eye often, but I have the greatest respect for knome.
<charlie-tca> I think enough of him to make him an IRC op in all of our channels, which gives him the right to throw even myself out.
<knome> to be exact, i've never seen charlie-tca in real life, but i do respect him very much too - he is doing an absolute fantastic job on QA and bugs!
<pleia2> thanks guys :)
 * micahg can vouch for charlie-tca being a real person :)
<charlie-tca> lol
<knome> me too, i've heard he is real from what i've heard from people i've seen rl too
<charlie-tca> If anyone neeeds more time to read knome's wiki pages, please say so
<knome> or maybe this is the next truman story??
<charlie-tca> I was real last time I looked in the mirror
<knome> (one can make even a bot say that!!)
<micahg> ubottu: are you real?
<ubottu> micahg: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<knome> just as a sidenote, i've never had problems with charlie-tca in the irc channels so i haven't had to think if i should throw him out :)
<charlie-tca> I am Charlie Kravetz. My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CharlieKravetz/XubuntuProjectLeadNomination
<charlie-tca> I want to thank knome for making this a true election this time. It is always good to have a choice.
<GridCube> :)
<knome> to be truthful, the ubuntu studio leader ScottL told he wanted to add a testimony for charlie too, but i think he forgot.
<charlie-tca> We will hold two votes, you can vote +1 to vote for the person. Only those members of https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users/ are allowed to vote.
<charlie-tca> If you don't know if you are a member of the team, please ask.
<GridCube> I think i am
<GridCube> how to know?
<knome> GridCube, lp id?
<GridCube> gridcube
<madnick> GridCube: you are
<knome> GridCube, you are a member.
<GridCube> :D
<dejot> are new group members OK to vote as well?
<knome> GridCube, of xubuntu-users, and only xubuntu-users
<charlie-tca> GridCube: you are
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> ok
<charlie-tca> dejot: yes, as long as you are a member
<dejot> k, thx
<knome> yes, should be no difference. you might have wanted to join the team for voting too :)
<ochosi> yeah, to be honest i did that..
<charlie-tca> #vote We are voting for knome first
<meetingology> Please vote on: We are voting for knome first
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<charlie-tca> Please vote now
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<charlie-tca> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from charlie-tca
<knome> can i vote for myself? :)
<dejot> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from dejot
<pleia2> +1
<knome> +0
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<meetingology> +0 received from knome
<charlie-tca> yes
<nimbus> +1
<edii> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nimbus
<meetingology> +1 received from edii
<GridCube> +0
<madnick> +1
<meetingology> +0 received from GridCube
<beardygnome> =1
<meetingology> +1 received from madnick
<beardygnome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from beardygnome
<JPohlmann> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from JPohlmann
<knome> oooh :o
<mr_pouit> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mr_pouit
<charlie-tca> knome: yes, you may vote for yourself. You can also change your vote by voting again
<micahg> do we vote only once?
<beardygnome> looks like i'm not a member of xubuntu-users though...
<knome> charlie-tca, i'll disqualify myself. :)
<charlie-tca> You can vote twice, once for each of us
<beardygnome> even though i'm in xubuntu-team...
<micahg> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from micahg
<knome> since xubuntu-users is an open group, i'd say anyone active enough in the community that both contestants know him, can vote. charlie-tca, agreed?
<GridCube> beardygnome, it autoaccepts you
<charlie-tca> yeah, If you are on Xubuntu-team, you are qualified to vote
<knome> :)
<mr_pouit> beardygnome: if you're in ~xubuntu-team, you're indirectly in ~xubuntu-users
<mr_pouit> (unless launchpad is lying to me, or I can't read straight anymore)
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: xubuntu-team is always included in xubuntu-users. So is xubuntu-devel
<beardygnome> i might be registered under my real name, not my nick
<beardygnome> just checking
<knome> heh
<knome> everybody going to vote has voted?
<charlie-tca> Does anyone else wish to vote?
<charlie-tca> we give it one minute
<knome> dum-di-dum...
 * knome renders half-time music
<GridCube> tom bombadil songs?
<ochosi> :)
<knome> you name it, i hum it
<charlie-tca> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: We are voting for knome first
<meetingology> Votes for:9 Votes against:0 Abstentions:4
<meetingology> Motion carried
<charlie-tca> Okay, Now we will vote on charlie-tca. Please vote if you are a member of the xubuntu-users team.
<charlie-tca> #vote we now vote for charlie-tca 
<meetingology> Please vote on: we now vote for charlie-tca
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
<charlie-tca> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from charlie-tca
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<GridCube> i nominated you so :P
<dejot> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from dejot
<beardygnome> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from beardygnome
<ochosi> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from ochosi
<pleia2> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
<knome> +0.5
<meetingology> +0.5 received from knome
<madnick> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from madnick
<JPohlmann> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from JPohlmann
<mr_pouit> uh, does +0.5 work?
<GridCube> it will count it XD
<knome> mr_pouit, if it does, i'll file a bug.
<dejot> and render the election invalid!
<knome> haha
<GridCube> jaja
<mr_pouit> +0 (actually +0.5, but then knome would file 2 bugs)
<meetingology> +0 (actually +0.5, but then knome would file 2 bugs) received from mr_pouit
<mr_pouit> >.<
<mr_pouit> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from mr_pouit
<charlie-tca> no it won't, since it may be for the boards to show a positive vote 
<knome> heh, nicely done...
<knome> let's see what the bot says in a sec
<charlie-tca> Okay, let's give it one more minute
<nimbus> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from nimbus
 * knome hums some half-time music again
<charlie-tca> Since this is the same bot used in #ubuntu-meeting, it may well allow half votes as a vote of confidence
<charlie-tca> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: we now vote for charlie-tca
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:10
<meetingology> Motion carried
<charlie-tca> Super.
<knome> yeah, it should count +0* as +0 :)
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, knome 
<knome> thanks everybody!
<pleia2> charlie-tca: thank you for your work, you are great :)
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> I will thank everyone here for participating in this meeting and very important election.
<knome> yes, thanks
<GridCube> ALL SALUTE THE NEW PROJECT LEADER!
<GridCube> :D
<knome> charlie-tca, if you will, i'll be glad to see you as the QA+bugs leader in the future too :)
<GridCube> congratulations mister knome :D
<knome> thank you sir
<charlie-tca> I know you will support the new Project Leader, and insure this great distribution continues to grow
<GridCube> :D charlie-tca for all i can tell you did a great job
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: thank you for all your hard work, my vote for  knome was not a vote against you, if that makes sense?
<micahg> beardygnome: you could've voted for both :)
<ochosi> GridCube: now you have to call him "the esteemed knome" ;)
<charlie-tca> #chair knome
<meetingology> Current chairs: charlie-tca knome
<charlie-tca> I know. I fully appreciate the value of change in leadership
<GridCube> the greatly steemed mister knome the great
<knome> charlie-tca, if you want, i can chair the rest of the meeting, or you can do it as well
<GridCube> :P
<mr_pouit> two chairs, soon we'll have a bench \o/
 * mr_pouit hides
<ochosi> haha
<knome> the steamed knome
<beardygnome> micahg: i know, but i didn't want to risk tying the votes
<charlie-tca> That's why I gave you the chair
 * knome is big enough to be a couch
<micahg> beardygnome: as you can see, that wasn't a problem :)
<charlie-tca> knome: go ahead
<knome> let me find the right tab in FF :)
<knome> so, let's move on to the next subject
<charlie-tca> besides, I am tired of saying I will wait for the new project leader
<knome> #topic === Announcements (again) ===
<GridCube> XD
<knome> Ubuntu goes 5-year schedule for LTS
<ochosi> charlie-tca: thanks for all your work charlie! i really hope you'll continue with QA and accessibility!
<knome> JPohlmann, ping
<charlie-tca> Yes, I plan to be around, but not until after UDS
<charlie-tca> knome: according to the message on the 5 year plan, it will be discussed at UDS, also
<micahg> knome: shouldn't that be a discussion or was that summary judgment?
<JPohlmann> The LTS schedule is something I thought it might be worth throwing in my opinion
<knome> JPohlmann had something to say so i'll let him :)
<micahg> knome: nevermind...
<JPohlmann> Maintaining an Xfce release as old as five years would be painful
<JPohlmann> As upstream developers we only really maintain the latest stable release in parallel to developing the next one
<JPohlmann> The cycle is about two years
<JPohlmann> So five years means you'd have to come up with fixes on your own, upstream doesn't have the manpower to maintain 3 versions in parallel
<JPohlmann> ..
<knome> yes, 5 years is a long time
<beardygnome> o/
<knome> beardygnome, go ahead
<beardygnome> we can chose not to do 5 year support, right?
<knome> i don't know. does somebody know that yet?
<knome> in my opinion, xubuntu doesn't necessarily need LTS's
<micahg> main will be supported for 5 yrs regardless, this is specific to whether or not we, as Xubuntu, want to extend that to our packages as well
<ochosi> o/
<knome> we have been able to produce a stable system every release
<knome> ochosi, go ahead
<charlie-tca> o/
<knome> charlie-tca, feel free to go after ochosi's finished :)
<JPohlmann> knome: Well, it is being used in large PC pools at universities, so having an LTS might be useful
 * micahg needs to learn to raise his hand...
<ochosi> as jannis said, xfce has a different length of cycles. furthermore: afaik ubuntu wants to transition to gtk3 with 12.04 which is rather bad for us
<micahg> o/
<ochosi> so all in all i think the next lts is not really ideal for xubuntu
<knome> JPohlmann, i understand, but since you can't upgrade from LTS to anything else than next normal release or the LTS 5 years ago, that kind of fails
<mr_pouit> well, I think we haven't even supported normal 3y LTS until now (I don't think I've even patched something in 10.04 -- Xfce 4.6 -- since its release)
<ochosi> ..
<micahg> knome: no, upgrades will still be every 2 years AFAICT for LTS -> LTS
<knome> (everybody just go free - otherwise this takes too long)
<charlie-tca> As a derivative of Ubuntu, we are not required to follow the Ubuntu release schedule. 
<knome> micahg, if LTS is every 5 years, isn't LTS->LTS five years waiting?
<charlie-tca> A point to keep in mind is that Xubuntu is not officially designated "LTS"
<micahg> knome: no, just that there's 6yrs of support per release
<micahg> oops
<GridCube> o/
<micahg> 5 yrs, not 6
<knome> if we could work with xfce more closely, the ideal situation would be to release an LTS everytime a new xfce version is out+polished
<ochosi> GridCube: think you don't have to raise your "hand" anymore ;)
<GridCube> ok
<charlie-tca> We have supported LTS releases as a group, not as a requirement
<GridCube> for as far as i know there will be two concurrent lts
<knome> GridCube, yep, let's go free on this subject
<charlie-tca> However, moving outside the Ubuntu 18 month cycles does create other issues
<beardygnome> +1 for knome's idea
<micahg> knome: there's no upstream help for GNOME/KDE to maintain an LTS release, so I don't see why we'd need help from Xfce either
<knome> micahg, yes, but you can only upgrade to next normal version or LTS from LTS
<micahg> GridCube: there will be 3 now :)
<charlie-tca> Gnome and KDE officially support LTS releases, which is why they are always included in the .? releases
<GridCube> yes, but what i mean is
<charlie-tca> We are not included in them
<GridCube> there will be two updates to lts
<knome> micahg, we don't necessarily need "xfce help", but help isn't bad
<micahg> knome: right, so from 12.04 you can upgrade to 12.10 or 14.04
<knome> micahg, yes
<GridCube> lts>lts1>lts2
<GridCube> lts>(lts1,lts2)
<knome> micahg, that's why it's either you upgrade to normal release, or are stuck waiting 5 for the next lts
<knome> micahg, which is bad
<knome> my vision is:
<micahg> knome: no, it's still 2 yrs for the next LTS upgrade
<knome> oh, right
<knome> sorry
<knome> i mixed things up
<GridCube> yes that, so not 5 years from lts > lts
<micahg> so I think we're good WRT upstream Xfce
<charlie-tca> A point to keep in mind, Dapper (Xubuntu 6.06) would have been supported until this year on a 5 year LTS
<knome> i think we are good anyway
<GridCube> 5 yeas if you do lts > lts2 but 2 for lts > lts1
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, imagining that makes the taste of a 5year lts a bit bitter
<GridCube> thats how i undestand it
<micahg> I think we have the option to stay with 3yrs instead of 5 as well
<beardygnome> we don't have a server release, do we?
<JPohlmann> Basically, if Xfce has released 4.6, 4.8 and is working towards 4.10, Xubuntu is entirely on its own with regards to 4.6. Upstream doesn't even check or work on fixes; no bugfix releases for the previous last stable release are made either. Maintaining that as an LTS would be tough, I guess.
<knome> can we just say we support the "LTS" as long as the xfce version in it supported?
<knome> people agree on that?
<charlie-tca> Yes, and we will have 4.6 for another 18 months after 12.04 releases
<GridCube> i do, but i don0t know if thats a fair thing to say to users
<knome> well, as long as the xfce version in it is the next-to-newest
<micahg> knome: well, no, that would be 2 yrs, and the LTS -> LTS upgrade isn't prompted until LTS+1.1
<charlie-tca> I would suggest not using "LTS" for any Xubuntu release
<mr_pouit> +1 with charlie-tca 
<GridCube> +1
<JPohlmann> Yep, +1
<beardygnome> _1
<ochosi> +1
<knome> charlie-tca, i kind of agree. as i said, we've been able to deliver stable releases from release to release
<beardygnome> +1
<micahg> so, the choices are 18m (no LTS), 3yrs, 5yr
<knome> in that case
<GridCube> knome, :p do a vote
<charlie-tca> #agreed do not use "LTS" for any Xubuntu release
<micahg> wait
<knome> yeah, wait :)
<micahg> do we not intend to support LTS -> LTS upgrades?
<knome> that was my question too
<knome> and the other question
<charlie-tca> so, you plan to support an upgrade from 4.6 to 4.??? at 5 years?
<knome> can we set update-manager to inform about new "normal" releases instead of just LTS by default?
<beardygnome> how difficult is it to support lts -> lts upgrades?
<micahg> charlie-tca: no, 2 yr upgrades, 4.6 -> 4.10, 4.10 -> 5.2 (?)
<charlie-tca> supporting an upgrade every two years is NOT supporting LTS to LTS upgrades
<ochosi> micahg: i think 4.12 comes after 4.10
<GridCube> if you are no using lts it will inform you anyway doenst it? knome 
<micahg> charlie-tca: yes, it is :)
<charlie-tca> It has to be upgraded the entire life time
<knome> GridCube, yes, but if you are
<GridCube> but we will be not
<micahg> charlie-tca: no, we can say the supported upgrade path for xubuntu is through the intermediate LTSs
<charlie-tca> knome: yes, that normal switch is simple to set
<knome> charlie-tca, great. then i'd say let's go for that. do you know if we also can hide the LTS thing completely?
<mr_pouit> again, to handle upgrade paths from 4.x to 4.x+4 (e.g. 4.6 to 4.10), we'll (probably) be alone
<knome> charlie-tca, eg. not support any upgrades over more than one release
<beardygnome> knome: i don't think that's a good idea
<charlie-tca> I don't know for sure, but if the user decides to change the config file, they become "on their own"
<micahg> knome: I think that will hurt us, not everyone is comfortable upgrading every 6 months
<ochosi> sorry people, it's getting a bit late for me and i have to work tomorrow morning. i'll join the discussion/s again in the next meeting
<knome> mmh.
<knome> ochosi, thanks for joining us anyway though
<knome> ochosi, i'm sure this discussion continues through to the next meeting as well
<beardygnome> knome: i think we need to take this to the ml
<ochosi> np, see you around (and i'll read the backlog)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: and that is what we are looking at for 10.04, already
<micahg> I think 3 yrs support isn't unreasonable and makes for a viable alternative to other OSs
<beardygnome> we are going around in circles here
<knome> mr_pouit, can you give some insight which is the easiest for you?
<beardygnome> +1 
<charlie-tca> Normal upgrades are 18 month cycles
<beardygnome> to micahg
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: if 12.04 only ships 4.8, that'll be fine ;-)
<charlie-tca> but the upgrade must always be by step to each release.
<micahg> charlie-tca: no, normal support is 18mo, upgrades are every 6 and if you upgrade every 18, you can to run 3 upgrades to be up to date
<micahg> s/can/have to/
<knome> can we give the floor to mr_pouit for a sec?
<micahg> mr_pouit: right, we still have that wildcard :)
<knome> i'd like to hear his thoughts on this, because he is the one doing the work, it seems
<knome> (and micahg)
<knome> mr_pouit, fell asleep?
<mr_pouit> I'm not that happy to support 3 (not to say 5) years old releases, but if people think we can do it, we could try
<knome> mr_pouit, what is your #1 suggestion
<micahg> mr_pouit: 3 is the end, most users would be on it only about 2.5 yrs
<mr_pouit> but right now, debian + xubuntu dev team = 3 people, just to remin that
<mr_pouit> *remind
<micahg> mr_pouit: what does Debian do about stable?
<micahg> keep in mind Debian's support cycle is ~3 yrs for their releases
<knome> (i'll be right back, need to run to the gentlemen's)
<mr_pouit> only high impact fixes/more or less nothing most of the time
<micahg> mr_pouit: I see no problem with us doing the same
<mr_pouit> for Xfce 4.4, users got 4.6 in -backports
<beardygnome> this might be a step too far, but could we switch our base?
<micahg> ooh, that's nice :), I'm not sure I'd want to do that in Ubuntu though
<mr_pouit> micahg: if we have longer support cycles than debian, we'll have fun delta with maintainer scripts & co, I'd like to avoid that ;-)
<mr_pouit> the current scheme is nice for that
<knome> is anybody going to UDS to discuss this?
<micahg> mr_pouit: right, so I'd like to keep us basically in sync with Debian which is basically 2 years between releases (like our LTS->LTS)
<JPohlmann> Time for me to hit the sack; bye people
<micahg> thanks JPohlmann
<mr_pouit> micahg: yes
<charlie-tca> yes, knome 
<knome> night JPohlmann, and thanks for the valuable input
<charlie-tca> I will be there
<beardygnome> would a rolling release cycle be better or worse?
<charlie-tca> worse, if Ubuntu does not support it
<micahg> mr_pouit: that's why I figured that it wouldn't be much of a hit for us to keep the 3yr support for the LTS, which is the LTS->LTS upgrade (basically the same as Debian stable + 1yr of oldstable)
<knome> charlie-tca, can you hear what people have to say about this, and do a quick report on what our choices worth considering are?
<charlie-tca> yup
<knome> charlie-tca, thanks
<knome> #action charlie-tca to hear about the 5-year release schedule in UDS and report about it
<charlie-tca> which is why I tried to say "this will be discussed at UDS before the final decision is made"
<meetingology> ACTION: charlie-tca to hear about the 5-year release schedule in UDS and report about it
<knome> i think it was good to hear what people think about it now
<knome> so you can maybe tell some canonical/ubuntu people what we have been thinking about it
<micahg> mr_pouit: but you handled the last LTS->LTS upgrade, if you think it's going to be too crazy to keep doing such a thing (just 2 yrs, i.e. a single LTS), then I respect your opinion on the matter, I'd just wondering how it differs from Debian stable -> stable transitions
<knome> not that i keep high hopes that they'll run for us shouting they will help..
<knome> micahg, i think it really is a madhouse to handle all those upgrades
<knome> listening to mr_pouit's comments here and there
<micahg> knome: Debian has to support it anyways if we stay in sync with the LTS and Debian stable, what extra work is thre
<mr_pouit> micahg: no, we agree on that, I think it's fine as long as we have upgrades such as 4.6 -> 4.8 (we still have that in maintainer scripts)
<mr_pouit> (with 4.6 -> 4.10, maybe we'll start having some nightmares at night ;-)
<micahg> well, will Debian go to 4.10?  If not, I"m happy to stick with 4.8 for the LTS
<knome> mr_pouit, so, are you saying we can keep on supporting lts1 -> lts2 releases, but not lts1 -> lts3 ?
<mr_pouit> so the current scheme for LTS releases (I think it's 3y) seems to be fine
<knome> okay
<charlie-tca> So, supporting LTS at two to three years already means we are behind. If Xfce 4.10 comes out, they no longer support 4.8, which we will have in 12.04?
<mr_pouit> (at least for upgrades)
<GridCube> knome, that would be my suggesting but i know nothing about this
<knome> GridCube, that's why i'm asking mr_pouit ;)
<knome> GridCube, because i don't know either...
<mr_pouit> (we probably need to do more SRUs if we want really to call that a LTS though :p)
<knome> if we drop the "LTS" name
<GridCube> we should keep our current lts program, and review this on 2020
<GridCube> :P
<micahg> mr_pouit: well, if upstream is bug fix only, we can ask for a microrelease exception
<knome> and just call the "LTS->LTS" upgrades "long timeframe updates" or something
<beardygnome> i think we needs some form of lts release
<mr_pouit> micahg: for debian, it depends on the freeze date, but I think it'll be 4.8 if the freeze is in 6 months
<GridCube> or LXS, long xubuntu support
<knome> mr_pouit, does that sound feasible?
<micahg> mr_pouit: I saw rumblings about June...
<micahg> although, 4.10 is supposed to be a polished release, so meh
<knome> i'd say let's end the discussion for today and get back to it after UDS, when we have some more information about it all
<knome> anybody has something REALLY important about this?
<GridCube> ..
<knome> #subtopic ==== Other announcements ====
<knome> i will take one-week (or less) break from FOSS in the following two weeks
<knome> but i'll be back before UDS ends
<GridCube> :)
<micahg> so, is charlie-tca representing Xubuntu at UDS then?
<knome> this is to keep my interest in FOSS growing in the future as well, as well as get some commercial work done, and moreover, to spend time with family and friends
<charlie-tca> Yes, I will represent Xubuntu this time around.
<knome> yes, i give charlie-tca the full rights to represent xubuntu at UDS
<charlie-tca> Unless micahg wants to?
<knome> i wasn't going to attend this time anyway (and i couldn't even if i wanted)
 * micahg will probably be testing Firefox updates at UDS :-/
<knome> right. charlie-tca and micahg, feel free to represent xubuntu wherever you go.
 * micahg wonders if he can keep all these hats on his head
<knome> just a quick announcement:
<knome> i've briefly talked with the ubuntu studio devs about cooperating in getting something like edubuntu has in installation time - "choose your set of applications"
<GridCube> :D
<knome> these sets for xubuntu could be something like "only core xfce", "all accessibility packages", "full" etc.
<micahg> AFAIK, we don't have an installer dev...
<knome> we don't but ubuntu studio does
<knome> cooperation means they'll do the work and we'll pick the fruits
<knome> not really, but i'd like to investigate this possibility
 * micahg is all for collaboration
<knome> yeah, we should cooperate and collaborate more with US devs, especially as they are moving to xfce now too
<knome> anything else?
<GridCube> :) and ubuntustudio wants to use xfce so we can help them there
<GridCube> knome, this is when we speak freely?
<holstein> we look forward to growing and helping you guys :)
<knome> yes, feel free to
<holstein> we = ubuntustudio team
<knome> if nothing arises, i'll close the meeting
<micahg> o/
<GridCube> ok this is my list of things i've come whit
<GridCube> feel free to not pay attentio to them now
<knome> (any outstanding and not-discussed things in the agenda will be discussed in the next meeting)
<GridCube> keyboard indicator for non-led'd keyboards
<GridCube> new set of backgrounds 
<GridCube> gpicviewer by default image viewer
<GridCube> darker theme
<GridCube> use places for the pseudo-dock
<GridCube> no autologin option on alternate
<GridCube> 	no way to add it later whitout manually editing the .conf file
<GridCube> bind the start menu to the meta-key
<GridCube> why gmusicbrowser? going back to exaile is an option?
<GridCube> deluge instead of transmission?
<GridCube> drag-n-drop from thunar to xfburn doesnt work, "its not a feature" was said to me on #xfce
<GridCube> what about talking to lubuntu people and using their package manager?
<knome> GridCube, can you create a blueprint, or at least wikipage for all the application things before we go to them?
 * micahg could answer a few of those now
<knome> GridCube, a short comparison/reasoning on why to change etc.
<knome> GridCube, one wikipage is fine too :P
<knome> micahg, go ahead
<micahg> gmusicbrowser only replaced the player, we still have parole seeded
 * beardygnome supports keyboard indicator, gpicview and return to exaile
<micahg> drag-n-drop from thunar to xfburn would be feature work upstream
<knome> GridCube, xfburn ^ report a wishlist bug upstream
<mr_pouit> (sorry, I really need to sleep, I'll read the backlog, good night)
<GridCube> :) will do
<GridCube> (when i learn how)
<knome> night mr_pouit, and thanks!
<micahg> Software Center is gaining access to different types of repos (including paid), if the lubuntu manager will have these features, then it's worth a look, otherwise, I don't know about switching unless software center is broke in Xubuntu (in which case we can probably get that fixed)
<knome> i really like synaptic
<micahg> GridCube: but feel free to make a list, we can hash it out later
<micahg> knome: it's still in the repos :)
<GridCube> i like synaptic too, but is not very userfriendly
<knome> while that might not be as clean as software center, it is still quite good
 * beardygnome prefers synaptic too
<GridCube> ok ill add it to my wiki page
<knome> micahg, i think we even ship it by default?
<knome> GridCube, thanks
<micahg> knome: I don't think we do anymore..
<micahg> oh, we do still :)
<beardygnome> ubuntu dropped it, iirc
<micahg> right
<knome> we didn't drop :)
<knome> micahg, did you have something else?
<GridCube> we didnt
<micahg> knome: yes, thansk
<micahg> Firefox 8 coming to Stable releases Nov 8
<micahg> oops
<micahg> To natty/oneiric :)
<micahg> and thunderbird 8 in oneiric
<knome> nice
<micahg> final builds can be tested at ppa:ubuntu-mozilla-security/ppa, beta builds at ppa:mozillatean/firefox-next and ppa:mozillateam/thunderbird-next
<micahg> final builds won't be up until some time during UDS
<knome> when is the first SRU
<micahg> knome: can you clarify please?
<knome> micahg, SRU for oneiric?
<micahg> Firefox/Thunderbird?
<knome> no, generally
<knome> and will the FF/TB  updates make it
<micahg> there are no point releases scheduled
<micahg> it's as you go
<knome> okay
<micahg> these are security updates, so hopefully on release day, or as soon as I get them tested
<knome> so we'll have those updates in by the first half of november for sure?
<micahg> yeah, barring upstream hiccups
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> if you need any help with that, feel free to ask this channel
<knome> others, please help micahg if you can
<micahg> well, beta testing/bug reporting is appreciated
<micahg> final builds as well, but by that point, there's little we can do
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> okay, is there anything else, or shall i end the meeting?
<micahg> ..
<knome> okay, we're done.
<knome> thanks for attending!
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Oct 23 23:37:03 2011 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-10-23-22.02.moin.txt
<micahg> thanks knome and congrats
<knome> thanks!
<GridCube> oh i was doing the wiki
<GridCube> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GridCube/ProposedChanges
<micahg> beardygnome: your oneiric release blog post suggests I give you this URL: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Update_Manager_doesn.27t_prompt_for_security_updates
<knome> GridCube, well, normal development discussion can continue :)
<GridCube> :P i have to go now tho
<knome> okay, see you GridCube 
<GridCube> :D we talk later
<beardygnome> micahg: thanks, i've seen the bug report about it.  not sure if i agree or not...
<micahg> beardygnome: well, if you think of something we've missed, please let us know
 * micahg said that with his security team hat on
<beardygnome> micahg: i agree with all of the reasons behind the decision, it's just going to take some getting used it
<beardygnome> but i must admit, i don't really  think twice about entering my password whenever i'm asked for it....
<knome> if somebody is willing to set up the minutes in the wiki today, feel free to do so
<knome> if they are not up by tomorrow, i'll set them up myself
<knome> need to go to sleep now
<beardygnome> likewise
<beardygnome> congratulations to knome
<beardygnome> good night all
<knome> one of the things i'm focusing on the FOSS break is being more with my wife, and it includes being at the bedroom more at the same time as her, even if we both just slept
<knome> thanks everybody
<knome> we rock!
<micahg> knome: thanks knome, family is important
<knome> charlie-tca, let's look at the LP stuff tomorrow when you get online
<charlie-tca> fine, but I don't have a checklist of everything
<knome> me neither
<charlie-tca> A lot of it is going to happen as we find it
<knome> yeah
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-15
<jamin> found a few regressions with xfce between 12.04 and 12.10
<jamin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1066637
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1066637 in thunar (Ubuntu) "regression: thunar no longer supports ssh://foo urls, now they have to be entered as sftp://foo " [Undecided,New]
<jamin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1066591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1066591 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "desktop icons no longer scaled down" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> jamin: works for me
 * micahg gets sftp URL
<jamin> micahg, which using an ssh:// url in thunar 1.4.0?
<micahg> yep
<micahg> 1.4.0-1ubuntu2
<jamin> same version
<jamin> doesn't allow the ssh:// urls any more... only sftp:// urls
<micahg> jamin: do you have gvfs installed?
<jamin> yes, 1.14.0-0ubuntu6
<micahg> mr_pouit: ^^ any ideas?
<micahg> jamin: he might not be around at this hour, so you might have to wait until morning for a response
<jamin> can open them fine with gigolo which will translate them over to sftp or can manually specify sftp, but have been used to using ssh://
<micahg> as I said, wfm 
<jamin> any idea on the icons?
<micahg> no, no idea, I'm not so familiar with the Xfce internals, just the packaging to some extent
<jamin> also the indicator-messages-service doesn't seem to be running... was under 12.04, still digging into why as it is still installed
<Unit193> micahg: Can you hold enough packages on upgrade to keep them? :P
<micahg> yeah, we had to drop it since the messaging API was broken in quantal and we had no one to port a GTK2 version, we probably won't get it back until we get a GTK3 panel
<micahg> Unit193: I have tiny hands
<Unit193> Hah, good answer.
<jamin> micahg, oh, so it's known to be broken?
<micahg> jamin: yeah, we removed it
<jamin> =( one of the few things I liked from mainline
<micahg> yeah, it's missed by many
<jamin> lastly (for now) the battery indicator doesn't seem to change state properly... that is if you're on AC and switch to battery it still indicates (both visibly and via tooltip) that you're on AC
 * micahg is hoping for a GTK3 panel by 13.04, but we're not sure it'll happen
<jamin> if you open Power Information from the pop up menu, the icon state changes properly
<micahg> jamin: sounds like a bug, please file it (xfce4-power-manager)
<jamin> filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1066645
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1066645 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "regression: batter indicator doesn't update properly" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> +y
<micahg> as my battery is dead on my quantal machine, I can't test that ATM
<Unit193> For the record, doing the mini+xubuntu-desktop
<knome> skaet, ouch, right. i'll update that at latest when i get home
<ochosi> do any of you folks have a real-install?
<ochosi> (of 12.10 i mean of course)
<ochosi> background: i wanted to check whether bug #1050551 is valid for 12.10 as well, but the capslock thing in vbox doesn't work as expected
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1050551 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[xubuntu] CapsLock warning on login screen is invisible (colorscheme issue)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050551
<GridCube> its there any job i could do to help before release day?
<smartboyhw> GridCube, test the RC ISOs I believe:D
<GridCube> :) ok will zsync them today then
<GridCube> in the topic of the FAQ i've started it but im trully unable to move foward with it, i dont know the answer to the few questions there is and i cant pinpoint ones to add up
<GridCube> it seems too disperse around
<GridCube> maybe we'll have to wait a few weeks and see what questions the new release brings to the community
<smartboyhw> :D
<Unit193> Anyone doing a fresh install today?  I need a listing from a new install ( dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Package}\n' | sort -nr | tee dpkg-query-xubuntu-full )
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-16
 * smartboyhw wonders who is doing the Xubuntu Open Week session....Can't see it on the wiki
<knome> smartboyhw, yes, because we haven't promised to do one yet
<smartboyhw> knome, I'm surprised ...
<knome> smartboyhw, i'd have hoped that you had asked us first before telling we can do the session together
<astraljava> micahg: mr_pouit: knome: whoever is relevant; Is https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/quantal/lightdm-gtk-greeter/lang-chooser-on-by-default/+merge/129758 something we'd want to see?
<astraljava> Essentially the change is:
<astraljava> 23-show-language-selector=false
<astraljava> 24+show-language-selector=true
<astraljava> dholbach on #ubuntu-devel was asking.
<knome> ask ochosi 
<ochosi> humm, what? :)
<astraljava> ochosi: Read a few (6) lines above.
<astraljava> Make it 7.
<ochosi> yeah, i'm actually starting my vbox now to see the (missing) lang-selector)
<ochosi> i guess i'd have to look at the glade file to see where the lang-selector would appear, right? (i mean: you haven't tested this yet, i suppose)
<ochosi> right now we have a "region" support, i thought that was the language-selector?
<ochosi> astraljava: see here: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-10162012-020905pm.php
<smartboyhw> Yes that one.....
<astraljava> ochosi: To be honest, I'm just passing the question along. I haven't participated in the development, nor the discussion regarding it.
<ochosi> astraljava: yeah, but you know what feature we're talking about, no?
<ochosi> but i guess i can talk to daniel myself
<mr_pouit> I already replied, except for ubuntustudio/mythbuntu where I don't know
 * smartboyhw is looking into studio
<ochosi> mr_pouit: oh, i see. then i guess i can stop talking to dholbach :)
<astraljava> ochosi: No, I actually don't, now that you mentioned the region selector.
<skaet> knome,  and others interested,  :)  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu <-- can you confirm the system requirements are accurate for 12.10?  
<Unit193> "New Features in Xubuntu 12.10"  Should have Xfce 4.10, and "Xubuntu Applications" should drop gimp, no?
<elfy> 4.10 is in applications - yes gimp should be dropped from that perhaps - mention of dual drives showing in known issues
<Unit193> Well, saying Xfce is a bigger upgrade, but however.
<zodiak> so.. dare I ask .. 18th still a go ? :)
<zodiak> and if so, what's slated for the next cycle ? is there a list of 'need help with foo' anywhere ?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-17
<knome> skaet, release notes updated again
<knome> skaet, i can't check, but i'm pretty certain the requirements still apply
<knome> Unit193, can you check the release notes now, does it look good?
<astraljava> knome: Known issues; Installation comes from somewhere else? AFAIK, we don't have an ARM .iso.
<knome> hm?
<knome> aha
<knome> probably
<skaet> knome,  ok.   Thanks.
<lestus> hey peeps
<lestus> what languages for dev d oyou guys prefer?
<ochosi> lestus: much depends on what you write for
<lestus> ok, two scenarios, one is to develop independent software package to run on linux environment which would store and hold info in a database, second modifying source code of xubuntu itself
<lestus> whats the suggestions for those two?
<lestus> i was thinking java for app dev, and python for os source?
<lestus> any other ideas?
<ochosi> yeah, well java if you want to go across platforms
<ochosi> other than that i'm not sure it's that great for desktop development (it's slow and heavy)
<ochosi> python could be good for both
<lestus> i dont know anything about python, is it capable of creating GUI applications or is it shell only?
<GridCube> theres python gui's
<lestus> ah ok, and you recon its less heavy than java? i don't really care about being cross platform at this stage
<lestus> but java i more or less know a bit now, whereas with python i'll be starting from scratch
<lestus> so what is linux's dominant dev language? is it c or python or something else?
<ochosi> that depensd
<ochosi> xfce (xubuntu's DE) is pretty much all C
<ochosi> the elementary project uses mainly vala
<GridCube> and vala is mostly c
<lestus> awesome thanks
<ochosi> vala compiles to C, but it looks very different
<lestus> never heard of vala, but used to dabble in c and assembly
<GridCube> ochosi, correct
<ochosi> what you'll definitely need is a good knowledge of your toolkit
<ochosi> nowadays mostly gtk or qt
<ochosi> ubuntu/gnome/xfce all use gtk
<ochosi> kde uses qt
<ochosi> (and razor-qt and prolly other DEs)
<lestus> eww
<lestus> no kde
<lestus> lol
<lestus> so gtk
<ochosi> yup
<GridCube> symbian also uses qt
<lestus> thanks for pointing the direction, i'll go start researching wtf gtk is LOL
<lestus> thanks guys
<lestus> im on the right path
<lestus> symbian? isn't that a gentoo distro?
<micahg> symbian is a mobile OS
<lestus> omfg
<lestus> sorry was thinking of Sabayon
<lestus> yea symbina was on some nokias if i recall
<lestus> symbian*
<GridCube> most of them
<GridCube> but now they went all win8 and stuffs
<lestus> ye
<lestus> wonder if anyone uses it still
<lestus> is gtk important to me developing a program?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> very very very important
<GridCube> with 3 verys
<lestus> is it the toolkit you were talking about?
<lestus> meaning, no devving without it?
<lestus> is it just a collection of libraries or apis or something?
<ochosi> gtk provides the widgets and all graphical stuff you need
<lestus> ah
<lestus> righto
<lestus> so to code buttons and fields and whatnot, ill be using gtk
<GridCube> if thats the one you choose, yes
<lestus> i like xubuntu, so gtk it is
<lestus> thanks for the info :)
<ochosi> yw
<uzver> Is there python bindings for xfce4? I read about pyxfce. But i can't find for 4.8, 4.10 :(
<ochosi> it's not maintained anymore afaik
<uzver> sad, but Thx.:)
<uzver> What about Vala support in 4.10?
<bluesabre_> crap, missed lestus
<bluesabre_> gtk dev is super easy with python, especially with quickly
<bluesabre_> Maybe I should revive pyxfce
<uzver> i just want some xfce integration(panel, desktop, thunar etc.)
<bluesabre_> uzver, what (how) are you wanting to integrate with xfce?
<bluesabre_> (I might be able to point you in the right direction) :)
<uzver> bluesabre_: mostly for learning, i just like python and XFCE
<uzver> for example now playing and google calendar applet. and I know about generic monitor) 
<ochosi> a nice gcal app would be good
<ochosi> i'd be personally interested in that :)
<uzver> xubuntu 12.10 working so fast and stable:)
<GridCube> im in ubuntu-es right now and its the 4th day someone came saying they couldnt get grub stages and then we realized that it was because they where using EFI machines
<torax> EFI....grrrr
<GridCube> so, when the days come, im expecting more of this cases to arise
<GridCube> where is xubuntu standing on this?
<GridCube> i havent seen many cases on #xubuntu so far
<torax> I could be first  :D
<GridCube> torax, do you have an efi machine?
<torax> GridCube: yes sir
<GridCube> so what problems did you had?
<GridCube> and how did you fix them?, its there a good tutorial i could point people to? i know nof: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFIBooting
<torax> well, if i remember correctly I could not boot to system ( i was dual booting) , I did find tutorials but none of them worked for me. But im gonna look at this again when i get back home
<torax> I could try to write some kind of tutorial if/when i get it working. I could save windows for testing this
<GridCube> torax, if you could do that it would be great :)
<elfy> evening - what's happened to the testing isos then 
<torax> GridCube: I dont think I have tried the tutorial from your link, but if I get it working ill tell you so we know its working :)
<Unit193> knome: I couldn't think of anything else.
<knome> Unit193, cheers
<knome> bbl.
<Unit193> Only other thing isn't really release note stuff, sooo.
<Pjotr> micahg: is there any progress on this bug in Xubuntu 12.10: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1039375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039375 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Duplicate partitions shown" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Pjotr> Damages the desktop experience of a very nice looking Xubuntu 12.10
<Pjotr> The bug report is maybe not quite complete: partitions show double on the desktop as well ("removable devices").
<Pjotr> As the final iso has probably already been built, maybe a quick post release update could fix this? Hopefully.... :P
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-18
<skaet> yup,  final iso is likely out.
<skaet> Help testing at this point so Xubuntu images can ship, would be appreciated.
<skaet> Candidate images are: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/240/builds
<skaet> knome, micahg, ^
<knome> skaet, cheers
<knome> skaet, again, when's the expected deadline?
<olbi> hello
<olbi> when will be released Xubuntu 12.10?
<knome> today
<olbi> today or another day?
<olbi> :D
<olbi> ok, so I will be w8ing and write some news :]
<pleia2> happy 12.10 release day :)
<Unit193> pleia2!
<knome> pleia2, ooh
<knome> pleia2, how's the ghana internet?
<pleia2> knome: horrible
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> mostly they use mobile, the hotel has dsl
<knome> pleia2, heh, is that any better?
<pleia2> not when everyone is on it :D
<knome> i see
<pleia2> anyway, breakfast time for me
<knome> ok, bon appetit
<olbi> something new was added from Beta 2 and changes from site?
<skaet> knome,  has someone tested the upgrade xubuntu amd64?    I'm not seeing it marked on the iso tracker
<knome> skaet, no, it's not tested
<skaet> knome,  can someone test it in the next couple of hours please so we know we've got all the manditory Xubuntu ones done?
<knome> i'll do that
<skaet> thanks knome!  :)
<knome> just trying to make paying customers happy too
<knome> "can you now send the material to the press? the deadline was 2 hours ago"
<Unit193> Couldn't even do that if I had the time.
<knome> installing 12.04 for upgrade testing
 * smartboyhw too for Studio....
<smartboyhw> Upgrade testcases are sometimes really distressing when it comes to release times...
<Unit193> I didn't do it for the testing, and didn't really think to add it that much.
<skaet> Unit193,  feel free to start the discussion up about which tests actually need to be done and are meaningful in the Xubuntu context.    If something isn't likely to find problems that the users need to know about,  then we probably shouldn't be making it manditory ;)
<knome> upgrading 12.04
<smartboyhw> knome, you are faster than me I am just downloading the 12.04.1 image eh...
<knome> yeah, agreed with skaet. for R, we should definitely review the tests (again), now that the new infrastructure is in place
<knome> rebooting precise to do the actual upgrade
<knome> hey jjfrv8 and thanks again for the hard work for 12.10 :)
<jjfrv8> knome, My pleasure. It was interesting. I think the final product looks great. And congratulations on release day!
<knome> thanks! :)
<bluesabre_> WebUpd8 did a pretty good xubuntu demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IzkJ-zaa1bc
<ochosi> yeah, saw that too today
<knome> bluesabre_, that looks good
<knome> liking how the wallpaper and stuff turned out
<ochosi> yeah, works nicely with the revamped greybird
<bluesabre_> yeah, his video is good enough that I don't think I'll need to make my own demo video when I get around to writing a new review
<mr_pouit> he didn't show the awesomeness of catfish, so you'll have to do you own video :P
<mr_pouit> *your
<bluesabre_> that's true
<bluesabre_> gotta advertise all my hard work (and questionable-quality code)!
<genii-around> Is there some documentation somewhere that I could read which explains why wubi was dropped from xubuntu? I don't care much for wubi but i'm interested in why
<mr_pouit> nobody cared I guess, and it increases the amount of testing required
<knome> genii-around, no manpower / machines to test, and wubi kind of only brought us problems
<genii-around> knome: Ah, OK. I was wondering if it was some technical issue or more a philosophical one.
<knome> genii-around, not much a philosophical one, yeah :)
<knome> we have the live cd's for testing, who needs wubi :)
<genii-around> I'd actually be good if wubi disappeared altogether for all *buntu
<knome> i agree, but i'm not the one to make the call :)
<babaei> what?
<babaei> wubi is fantastic.
<bluesabre_> I thought they did get rid of wubi on the other *buntu
<knome> congratulations and thanks everybody! xubuntu 12.10 is now out!
<smartboyhw> knome, yay!
<SkippersBoss> have we noticed the nice bug from our freind on ubuntu ?
<smartboyhw> SkippersBoss, oh?
<SkippersBoss> https://help.ubuntu.com/
<knome> heh :)
<SkippersBoss> they ve got 2110 out 2day :-)
<SkippersBoss> thing is. they still haven't mnaged to correct this obvious error
<smartboyhw> heh
<smartboyhw> SkippersBoss, they are on it now
<skaet> knome, and rest of xubuntu team,  congratulations on getting 12.10 out.
<skaet> :)
<knome> thanks!
<knome> it was a lot of work... but it will be a lot of work with 13.04 too :D
<SkippersBoss> we ll be here to assist
<knome> yeah, that's appreciated
<genii-around> Both d/l links seem 404
<knome> fixed.
<micahg> mr_pouit: is there anything specific that you'd like me not to do when R opens?
<knome> micahg, slack off
<knome> [:
<bluesabre_> :d
<knome> countdown banners should say it's out soon...
<knome> to be exact, looks like they say that now
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-19
<SkippersBoss> Can we get jockey back as software sources has clearly problems identifying hardware
<xubuntu763> hi
<xubuntu727> hello
<xubuntu727> i know it's VERY VERY early in the cycle, but i was wondering if there are any plans to use another office suite in the future?
<xubuntu727> One that supports presentations and fully supports docx, xlsx and pptx... Thanks
<astraljava> xubuntu727: You can file a wishlist bug about it. But also installing LibreOffice will solve that problem easily. If the devs switch to enlarge .iso size to 800MB (USB), then it's a possibility, albeit quite possibly a very small one.
<xubuntu727> humm... thank you astraljava!
<xubuntu727> that is what i currently do in all my installs
<xubuntu727> install libreoffice and gparted as there is no app with a gui to format usb drives
<xubuntu727> i know ubuntu got a lot bigger with 12.10 but i always thought that as ubuntu 12.04 was able to fit in a cd and had libreoffice
<xubuntu727> that MAYBE... xubuntu could also do it
<xubuntu727> oh well.... i'll just keep installing libreoffice
<xubuntu727> thank you!
<astraljava> xubuntu727: No probs. I'd still suggest filing the bug, that should get the official response at some point anyway. But also keep following the development, cause who knows if that decision gets countered at some point. :)
<mr_pouit> micahg: nothing comes to my mind, so I trust you ;-)
<micahg> mr_pouit: will you be at UDS?
<mr_pouit> no, maybe next time
<micahg> mr_pouit: are you up for mixing 4.12 and 4.10 in R?
<micahg> (to try to get a gtk3 panel)
<mr_pouit> micahg: as soon as the core libs can build a gtk3 version in parallel, yeah
<mr_pouit> but for the moment there's no pre-release available, and no work has been done on the panel
<micahg> ok
<micahg> I saw a few updates in experimental after final freeze, so I figured those could be pulled in when Raring opens
<mr_pouit> experimental still only contains 4.10 partially
<mr_pouit> (only exo and thunar have 4.12 pre-releases so far (gtk2 only), and I didn't upload them anywhere)
<ochosi> at least the display-dialog should be pulled for R ;)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ^ :)
<mr_pouit> hehe
<ochosi> took a quick (feverish) look at the iconview btw
<ochosi> seems that mostly the _populate function would have to be adapted
<ochosi> (and the glade-file obviously)
<mr_pouit> micahg: ah, there's Bug #1010409 to remember for xfce4-session (ubuntu changes to drop on merge)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1010409 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "[quantal] Drop delta wrt gnome-keyring" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010409
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, BTW, I can push though official backports now if there are certain pieces that we'd like that for (I would think apps rather than libs)
<mr_pouit> I didn't check the delta between experimental and quantal (except the obvious -1 vs -Oubuntu1), so if you see more recent releases in experimental, backports should be ok
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-20
<Evropi> XChat is no longer maintained
<Evropi> have you looked at http://www.hexchat.org/home or other forks like PChat at all?
<Evropi> you could always go with an alternative, ofc, but XChat is one of the best out there for GTK
<Unit193> Pchat nor hexchat are currently in the repo at this time.
<Evropi> dang, true
<Evropi> have you considered any other IRC clients for the future?
<Evropi> Smuxi needs GNOME libraries AFAIK and frankly it's too complicated for the average eRepublik player (it's not just nerds like me who use IRC, it's huge for online games)
<corrado> hi
<Pjotr> Congratulations and thanks for the fine Xubuntu 12.10! The new Xfce 4.10 is great stuff to work with. :-)
<Pjotr> Nice to see some of my new upstream translations have landed as well...
<astraljava> Hey Pjotr! Thanks for those! :)
<Pjotr> Does anybody know if any work is planned for fixing this harmless but very visible bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1039375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039375 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Duplicate partitions shown" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Pjotr> mr_pouit: do you know whether someone is addressing this bug?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-21
<levin__>  in xubuntu 12.10 laptop touchpad settings revert to dfault after reboot which disables touchpad tapping,does anyone know how to overcome this behaviour?
<chippy> Is Synaptic going to be removed from Xubuntu ISO image
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-14
<micahg> actually upstream maintenance and development
<brainwash> currently I lack the motivation to help with an app I never use
<micahg> nah, it should be something used
<micahg> it's the default bluetooth manager for Xubuntu
<brainwash> so it's not maintained anymore?
<brainwash> like users-admin
<micahg> yeah, upstream had issues, there are some efforts to revive it, volunteers welcome
<micahg> s/had issues/lacked time/
<brainwash> I'll continue with some general debugging/codding before I even try to maintain a whole project :)
<brainwash> micahg: aah, don't want to bother you, but what's up with https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/b2_fixes ?
<brainwash> I keep seeing the warning about the invalid dconf key, which reminds me that a fix has been already committed some time ago :)
<brainwash> maybe we can combine the upload with a fix for bug 1239018
<ubottu> bug 1239018 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Disable overlay scrollbars by default in Xubuntu 13.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239018
<brainwash> (if it's a valid request to disable them)
<micahg> disabling overlay scrollbars would need a UIFe at this stage of the game
<Unit193> They are rather unused, not installed by default, but cause issues if they are.  This would just disable them if they are installed.
<Noskcaj> micahg: I'll have a look at the blueman source and see what i can do, but don't expect much
<micahg> Noskcaj: I was asking if anyone wanted to maintain it upstream, casual fixes are always welcome
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I'm going to try and put a new version of catfish into debian. Do you want to be a co-maintainer of it? (python-apps is maintainer)
<Noskcaj> micahg, Did you get the pkg-xubuntu team set up yet?
<Noskcaj> What happened to Cody A.W. Somerville? I assume he no longer wants to maintain catfish?
<pmjdebruijn> hi folks
<Noskcaj> hey pmjdebruijn 
<pmjdebruijn> I'm not sure if here or the plain channel is the best place
<pmjdebruijn> I'm wondering how gnome-keyring-daemon is being started in xubuntu?
<pmjdebruijn> as the /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-keyring-*.desktop files aren't being used
 * pmjdebruijn is wondering if it's being started by pam-gnome-keyring
<pmjdebruijn> anybody a clue?
<Noskcaj> pmjdebruijn, I don't know, sorry. Just stay around and someone should
<pmjdebruijn> yeah I'll wait
<brainwash> micahg: we just want to disable the unity overlay scrollbars during the xubuntu session, they are not installed by default in xubuntu, but cause some trouble if installed manually or by installing unity side by side
<brainwash> micahg: so basically we want to keep xubuntu free from incompatibility issues caused by these scrollbars
<brainwash> we got the bug reports and maybe we could add a little info to the release page, so maybe there's no need release a "fix"
<ali1234> add this one to the list of bugs in other desktops directly caused by unity
<elfy> is there a bug for that :)
<brainwash> bug 1229486 still an issue?
<ubottu> bug 1229486 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Resuming from suspend flashes the desktop, then shows unlocking dialog" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229486
<elfy> brainwash: it was when I did tests on saturday
<brainwash> the bug reporter stated that it was fixed by installing pm-utils
<elfy> brainwash: I was testing the final release iso - not fiddling to see if I could fix it :)
<brainwash> I cannot confirm it tough
<elfy> from a default vanilla iso on hardware?
<elfy> there have been a couple of new released iso's since there - not checked them today
<slickymaster> morning all
<brainwash> my 3 week old test installation
<brainwash> including pm-utils
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<slickymaster> elfy: hi elfy :)
<elfy> brainwash: well that isn't really what we need testing - we need the iso testing :)
<elfy> we've had 9 x 32bit tests and 11 x 64bit tests 
<slickymaster> elfy: I'm currently testing yesterday's image but I noticed that there's already available today's http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/305/builds/55705/testcases
<elfy> yep
<elfy> slickymaster: you can subscribe to builds to get notification that it's been rebuilt
<slickymaster> elfy: I'm subscribed, that's how I know that today's is already available, going to download it at lunch
<elfy> aah 
<slickymaster> elfy: I'll have to download at home so I won't waste communications resources over here at work
<brainwash> maybe a hardware specific problem, suspending so fast, that xflock4/xscreensaver are not able to popup just in time :D
<elfy> possible 
<elfy> laptop I run tests on isn't that slow though I would have thought 
<brainwash> can you also do several suspend/resume cycles and see if the network-manager stops working at some point?
<elfy> brainwash: how fast does ctrl+alt+delete run the lock screen - because on this machine it takes a couple of seconds to do so and that is about as fast as it comes up after suspend
<brainwash> couple of seconds o.o
<elfy> exactly the same thing seen coming out of suspend
<brainwash> it takes exactly 1 sec for xscreensaver to blank the screen (old machine, 2006)
<elfy> not got any network-manager issues
<elfy> this suspend thing - if I suspend from menu and resume - no screensaver at all
<elfy> shut lid to suspend - resume - screensaver after a few seconds
<thad> elfy: yes, you need to activate locking for the menu entries (session and startup, last tab)
<elfy> as long as it's expected that's fine - I rarely use it
<elfy> so the only issue is the bug then
<thad> and lid closing might trigger the screen locker twice, via sysdemd/logind and xfce power manager
<elfy> thad: not sure if you saw <elfy> not got any network-manager issues
<thad> ok, so yet another hardware specific problem
<thad> it happens occasionally for me, like 33% of all suspend/resume cycles
<thad> maybe even less
<elfy> this issue I can replicate 100%
<pmjdebruijn> hi again, is anybody aware how gnome-keyring-daemon is started in xubuntu? since I'm fairly confident the .desktop files in /etc/xdg/autostart are not used
<pmjdebruijn> gnome-keyring-daemon is interfering with proper operation of OpenGPG smartcards
<pmjdebruijn> so I need to pass --components to it
<thad> gnome components can be loaded on session start, see settings manager, session and startup, last tab
<pmjdebruijn> ok thanks, but do you know to which files in the filesystem those relate?
<pmjdebruijn> preferably I'm looking to make a systemwide modification
<thad> I assume the .desktop files located in /etc/xdg/autostart
<pmjdebruijn> no
<pmjdebruijn> when I move /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-keyring-*.desktop to /root nothing changes at all
<pmjdebruijn> I'm wondering if pam-gnome-keyring is actually starting it
<pmjdebruijn> oh wait
<elfy> got the kernel error again during install
<pmjdebruijn>  pam_gnome_keyring.so auto_start
<pmjdebruijn> doh
<pmjdebruijn> that's on my regular ubuntu, I should crosscheck on xubuntu tonight
<thad> elfy: "People never guess that KeyRelease deactivates the screen saver too, so if we're issuing an activation command, wait a second."
<thad> hardcoded 1 sec pause
<elfy> thad: ok - where did you find that ?
<thad> xscreensaver-command.c line 320
<thad> elfy: do you think that removing that pause would make difference? it's just 1 sec
<thad> optionally ofc, so the normal behavior would still be to wait 1 sec
<elfy> perhaps it is a second - I've not timed it :)
<thad> it has to be fixed post release and before 14.04 (light-locker)
<thad> if at all
<elfy> well it's on the known issues list so won't get missed, might not get any love - but at least it's there and known
<thad> it is actually a big deal for people who are affected
<elfy> yep
<elfy> not disputing that 
<thad> light-locker has (had?) the same problem
<elfy> but I don't fix bugs I'm afraid
<thad> you could rebuild xscreensaver and remove the pause, then test again
<elfy> not this week I can't - a) I've got all sorts of things in r/l going in b)got release week stuff and testing going on c)seem to be suffering with a chest infection and should be in bed doing neither of a or b
<thad> oh, get well soon! I'll add a comment to the report :)
<elfy> thanks thad 
<elfy> brainwash: thanks for commenting :)
<thad_> spot the mistake http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/steam22.php
<skellat> LP Bug #1239556 can be brought up for discussion, I guess
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1239556 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Remove dependency on package printer driver for HP-GDI printers" [Undecided,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239556
<brainwash> skellat: what about the ppd packages?
<skellat> printer-driver-pnm2ppa matches the description they give
<skellat> Everybody who shows up in rdepends has it as a hard dependency
<skellat> Which is every desktop seed except for GNOME
<brainwash> so is it a valid request? why depend on stuff for printing?
<skellat> brainwash: I need to pull up the seeds to see if there is a note as to why.  I'm marking it as an Opinion for now as micahg & mr_pouit would need to really pass judgment in the end since we're not the only ones with it as a hard dependency.
<Unit193> It's in the desktop-command seed. :/
<skellat> Is there a note that it is required by Technical Board resolution?
<skellat> Oh
<skellat> Crud
<skellat> If it is in desktop-common that gets kicked all the way up
<skellat> Unit193: desktop-common would be set in debian-installer, no?
<brainwash> "Which is every desktop seed except for GNOME"   package ubuntu-gnome-desktop?
<skellat> brainwash: Well, GNOME didn't exist as a flavor for 12.04.3
<skellat> :-)
<brainwash> ah right :)
<skellat> Found it!  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/platform.saucy/desktop-common
<skellat> Which means the branch that a merge proposal can be addressed to is: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.precise
<brainwash> so a change is very unlikely
<brainwash> if basic printing support is a goal of ubuntu
<knome> we can blacklist packages in our ISO
<brainwash> exclusively for precise? T will offer the xubuntu core meta package, so it won't be an issue anymore I guess
<knome> per release, sure
<skellat> brainwash: That depends if we keep desktop-common incorporated by reference in the seed
<skellat> knome: The note says that a bunch of PPDs require that driver so breakage was found to be more likely if not there.
<Unit193> Yeah, I removed that reference from my test openbox session and moved everything I wanted in the seed itself.
<brainwash> mmh, changing stuff, because "one" user complains about it.. reminds me of my report about deactivating the overlay scrollbars during the xubuntu session :)
<skellat> That's why I marked it Opinion and noted it needed to be discussed by our devs
<skellat> Lots of breakage possible with this one
<brainwash> yes, no need to break a LTS release
<knome> agreed
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-15
<slickymaster> morning all
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: that would be awesome
<GridCube> wich iso should i download to test? daily or final?
<knome> final
<GridCube> ok
<slickymaster> afternoon all
<elfy> hello slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hello elfy, how's your chest infection?
<elfy> not too good - but nvm :)
<slickymaster> elfy: I trust you saw a doctor and are under treatment
<elfy> of course ... 
<slickymaster> elfy: well you'll have to wait until the antibiotics start to do their job 
<elfy> slickymaster: I'm not world renowned for doing what I should do ;)
<elfy> but it's all o/t in here anyway - better in -offtopic :)
<slickymaster> elfy: I know what you mean. I do the talk, when it concerns others, but rarely do the walk, when it concerns me ;) 
<elfy> :)
<GridCube> i'm not seeing any progress bar while the installation goes
<knome> have you filed a bug?
<GridCube> no, i dont know if its a bug
<GridCube> http://i.imgur.com/5twUZIu.png
<GridCube> knome, ^ is that correct?
<knome> no
<GridCube> i assume i need to create a bug report agains ubiquity
<knome> yes
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1240117
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1240117 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity installed doesnt show a progress bar while installing on saucy RC" [Undecided,New]
<GridCube> its there any particular thing needed to check?
<elfy> GridCube: I'll see if I can replicate that
<elfy> did you try resizing the window at all though
<ali1234> GridCube: it looks like the progress bar has been shoved off the bottom because the window shouldn't have a title bar and scrollbars
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> i tried to resize but it only allowed me to move the window
<ali1234> do the scrollbars work?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> it just shows the same image a little more or less
<elfy> ok - I'll look 
<elfy> no that I can do anything but confirm or not :)
<elfy> GridCube: in a vm here with 2gb ram - can see progress bar ok
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/273732
<GridCube> did you encountered the kernel error before?
<GridCube> and thats the installer from the desktop live session
<elfy> Bug 1220165
<ubottu> bug 1220165 in parted (Ubuntu) "Error informing the kernel about modificatons" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1220165
<elfy> that bug GridCube ^^
<GridCube> yes that one
<elfy> I have seen it of late - but not today
<GridCube> ok, my bug seems related to that
<elfy> 'should' have been fixed with todays rebuild
<GridCube> i'm using the iso from the "final" not "daily"
<elfy> yep - it gor rebuilt - did you get it today - I got notification at 10:56UTC 
<GridCube> just now
<elfy> mmm - not sure then - it's ok here
<GridCube> D: wait
<GridCube>  i though the szync was correct but it actually fetched 79% of the iso
<GridCube> great
<GridCube> i will delete the results :/
<GridCube> i was testing the beta2 image all again
<elfy> oh
<GridCube> how do i cancel the bug report aswell?
<knome> GridCube, first check if it happens with the final images; if not, then mark it as fix released and leave note in the comments that it doesn't appear with the final images anymore and that your previous test was with an older image
<elfy> GridCube: I see we were marking it invalid at the same time then
<GridCube> i marked it invalid myself :/ 
<GridCube> sorry
<knome> marking as invalid is fine as well
<elfy> GridCube: I know - I was doing the same thing 
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> i will test tomorrow then :( i lost a lot of time doing this one and i have to get some work done
<elfy> GridCube: I expect you'll need an up to date one again tomorrow
<GridCube> from the same final folder?
<GridCube> or from daily?
<elfy> same place - Final
<GridCube> in any case, it wont be the same as 50% difference from beta2
<elfy> :)
<elfy> GridCube: whatever is here http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/305/builds
<knome> well let's hope it's more than 50% same than todays image.
<elfy> lol
<GridCube> haha
<thad> ali1234: did you already take a look at bug 1185396? maybe even done some debugging?
<ubottu> bug 1185396 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashed with SIGSEGV in gst_user_profiles_get_for_user()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185396
<ali1234> i had a look but it's gnome
<ali1234> it's all plugins inside plugins and i have no idea how you are even supposed to run it let alone debug it
<ali1234> what i did find is that it crashes at the same time as the user creation actually happens
<ali1234> and the new user does seem to get created correctly
<thad> it still uses the normal gtk stuff
<thad> and the segfault when you close the application?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> only if you made a user though
<thad> right
<thad> something corrupts the list which contains all the groups
<ali1234> where is it in the source even?
<thad> what exactly?
<thad> the invalid function call?
<ali1234> well, the list with the groups i guess
<thad> groups-table.c
<ali1234> this does not use GSlist
<ali1234> not directly anyway
<thad> it's GtkListStore
<thad> it's some sort of wrapper
<ali1234> static GtkListStore *groups_model = NULL;
<ali1234> that one?
<thad> yes, and gtk_list_store_clear (groups_model) fails when terminating the app
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> fishy fishy code
<ali1234> after it sets up the tree model it calls g_object_unref(groups_model)
<ali1234> it seems to me that using groups_model after unref'ing it would be a bad idea
<ali1234> i don't know though... need to read the docs
<thad> unless the model gets copied
<ali1234> *if* the model gets copied
<ali1234> unref just decrements the reference count
<ali1234> when it hits clear it is free'd
<ali1234> *zero
<ali1234> if gtk changed so that the object was copied that would make this code stop working
<ali1234> since there would no longer be another reference to keep the object alive
<ali1234> i doubt that is the problem though
<thad> mmh, but there is no problem with the model until you add new user
<thad> which also adds a new group
<ali1234> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2848273/should-a-g-object-new-have-a-matching-g-object-unref
<thad> deleting a user/group does not cause any notable trouble, but adding does
<ali1234> if i read that correctly... the unref's are completely unnecessary
<ali1234> and will cause the object to be freed prematurely
<thad> wouldn't that kill the app way sooner?
<Unit193> Soooo, why is it when you boot an installed system in Vbox it'll use plymouth-theme-xubuntu-logo, but booting the ISO it'll use plymouth-theme-xubuntu-text?
<ali1234> Unit193: nvidia graphics?
<Unit193> vbox, so does it matter much?  Yes.
<ali1234> thad: no. reading freed memory works fine. writing to it as well, as long as nothing else started using it. extending it however
<thad> I see
<ali1234> Unit193: actually no. i was thinking how plymouth doesn't work with nvidia driver, but that shouldn't affect the ISO
<thad> still segfaulting
<elfy> thad ali1234 - I did some checking on that user admin thing - the ONLY thing I've crashed it with is adding a user 
<thad> yes, right
<ali1234> does it crash in unity?
<elfy> no idea ali1234 
<ali1234> or gnome classic?
<elfy> I can have a look 
<ali1234> or anything that isn't xfce?
<ali1234> (does unity even use it, or something different?)
<thad> would that really make a difference?
<ali1234> i dunno
<thad> users-admin is not maintained anymore
<elfy> ali1234: I can check if you want me too 
<Unit193> ali1234: Yeah, no idea why it doesn't use the logo boot.
<thad> only xubuntu/ubuntustudio/lubuntu depend on it
<ali1234> hmm ok
<ali1234> can i hack this so it doesn't actually make users, but still crashes?
<thad> I didn't try this yet
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmm
<ali1234> i think i know what is happening
<thad> the "create new user" function fails?
<thad> adding a group manually works without causing a segfault afterwards
<ali1234> yeah it crashed when clear is called from gst_users_tool_finalize (GObject *object) (which is in another file)
<thad> exactly
<ali1234> if i rearrange the calls so it clears the models first then it crashes in a different place :/
<ali1234> i think manually clearing and unreffing everything is the problem here
<thad> what about "** (users-admin:14123): CRITICAL **: gst_user_profiles_apply: assertion 'profile != NULL' failed" ?
<thad> this one appears when creating a new user
<ali1234> it's a double free issue
<ali1234> the thing has already been cleared/freed
<ali1234> if i comment out the call entirely it doesn't crash
<ali1234> i don't know for sure what the consequences of that are though
<thad> but it also does not complain
<ali1234> right
<thad> well, the app is closed anyway :)
<ali1234> also i still don't understand why it only crashes after a user was added
<ali1234> it does cause a few extra calls... maybe that is the problem
<ali1234> the groups_list gets created and destroyed a lot during program lifecycle
<thad> probably the function to create a new user
<ali1234> fishy fishy code
<thad> and the critical error
<ali1234> but i don't feel comfortable changing stuff that is security related
<thad> mmh, identifying the culprit does not cause any harm
<thad> and you can test it inside a virtual machine
<ali1234> i also don't understand why the exact same thing doesn't appen with the users table
<ali1234> the code is identical
<ali1234> it does complain
<ali1234> (users-admin:25934): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion 'G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
<thad> does the error appear when creating a new user?
<thad> I see this one -> ** (users-admin:14951): CRITICAL **: gst_user_profiles_apply: assertion 'profile != NULL' failed
<slickymaster> good night all
<doko> any xubuntu release manager online?
<bluesabre> hi doko, what's up?
<knome> doko, heya.
<bluesabre> oh good, knome is here
<bluesabre> :)
<doko> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+queue?queue_state=1
<knome> doko, saw that discussion; is there any actual code change?
<doko> no, just the config.* change. see the diff
<knome> doko, i'm fine with those
<doko> knome, cool, could you repeat that on -release?
<knome> done
<doko> thanks, hopefully these were the last ones
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-16
<slickymaster> morning all
<ochosi> brainwash: it was confirmed that the xfwm4 settings bug is a packaging thing, so no need to worry about that one
<pmjdebruijn> hey folks, on my xubuntu saucy install, I still have a broken volume indicator, I assume that's a known issue?
<elfy> pmjdebruijn: yep it is known :)
<pmjdebruijn> k fair enough
<ochosi> elfy: s/:)/:'(/
<elfy> ochosi: indeed - but what can I do ;)
<ochosi> elfy: cry baby cry, make your mother sigh!
<elfy> pmjdebruijn: there is a 'fix' but if it upgrades it needs redoing atm 
<elfy> but I don't think anything will get done with it this side of release
<elfy> ochosi: my mother would just slap me ;)
<pmjdebruijn> "this side of release"?
<ochosi> elfy: i assume it would be well-deserved (your mother will know why she slaps you i assume)
<elfy> before Thursday pmjdebruijn - not sure what we'll be able to do post release either - but I think we're looking at doing something
<elfy> ochosi: couldn't possibly say :)
<pmjdebruijn> is there a launchpad bug related to this? possibly with a track record of what's known about this issue?
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1208204
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged]
<pmjdebruijn> thanks
<pmjdebruijn> I'll have a read tonight :)
<elfy> :)
<pmjdebruijn> oh btw, I assume revert to the Raring version isn't on option, since the changes which broke it, were purposefully for mainline ubuntu?
<pmjdebruijn> wouldn't it in that case make sense to fork it?
<pmjdebruijn> xfce-indicator-sound ?
<pmjdebruijn> or xubuntu-indicator-sound
<ochosi> no, that wouldn't help
<elfy> I can't answer that I'm afraid
<elfy> ochosi can though :)
<ochosi> you'd still have to backport the whole beast to gtk2
<ochosi> and it makes much more sense to use the xfce4-indicator-plugin that support gtk3
<ochosi> (especially since it already exists and works)
<pmjdebruijn> I mean fork the raring version
<pmjdebruijn> not the saucy one
<ochosi> that won't work either
<ochosi> because there were protocol changes
<pmjdebruijn> oh I though someone reported downgrading the package to the raring version worked
<pmjdebruijn> anyhow, I'll read the full thread tonight then
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> (fwiw, i've never tried downgrading)
<ali1234> pmjdebruijn: yeah what you said pretty much sums it up
<ali1234> pmjdebruijn: the indicators has two parts: the part which the users sees and the dbus backend
<ali1234> so the gtk2 and gtk3 versions both have a backend in the package, but when you install the gtk2 indicator it uses the gtk3 backend anyway. this is pretty much required due to how dbus services are initialized
<ali1234> in raring it didn't matter because the two backends were compatible but in saucy they are not
<ali1234> so forking isn't required - what you need to do is make the gtk2 indicator compatible with the gtk3 backend again
<ali1234> that would be a lot of work, and we have gtk3 indicators working now
<ali1234> btw the workaround is to edit the dbus service so it runs the gtk2 backend - this patch can never go in ubuntu as it will break the gtk3 indicator
<pmjdebruijn> right. but in that case just forking the package would at least allow for a temporary fix
<pmjdebruijn> I'll give that a go on my ppa tonight then
<brainwash> ali1234: do you intend to comment on the users-admin lp report?
<GridCube> the test cases are (disabled)
<GridCube> will try with "daily"
<GridCube> the daily zsync has absolute no difference from the final ISO
<smartboyhw> Respin happening.....
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> so it useless for me to test now
<smartboyhw> GridCube, technically, you report results to the "final" milestone, but the ISO is called "daily" until the release actually happens...
<GridCube> yes, but the final report site says "disabled" so i assume that if i do the test it wont be useful
<smartboyhw> Nah, wait for the respin
 * ochosi senses general pre-release fatigue
<ochosi> (usually followed by post-release depressions)
<brainwash> ochosi: xfwm4 is able to copy the root background, but not the "background" set by lightdm
<ochosi> in lightdm that's done via accountsservice
<ochosi> but that's an ubuntu-only accountsservice patch
<brainwash> right, but it's not able to copy the pixels
<brainwash> :D
<ochosi> maybe it would pre-load xfdesktop's wallpaper?
<ochosi> well we can modify the greeter if that helps
<brainwash> xfdesktop does not set the root background, just drawing a window right?
<ochosi> (but iirc we set the root background to the wallpaper in the greeter already, not sure what else we could do there)
<ochosi> possible, i don't know
<brainwash> mmh, maybe it will work to start xfdesktop first and delay xfwm4 (and therefore the panel)
<ochosi> gotta go
<brainwash> bye
<olbi> hi huys
<olbi> guys*
<olbi> tomorrow stable release :)
<GridCube> :/ i still could not test the image
<olbi> hehe :D
<olbi> I'm testing this on Sapphire Edge-HD4 and it works now :)
<brainwash> now we need to focus on fixing the remaining known bugs
<skellat> And from what I've seen today #ubuntu-release looks like a bit of a horror show when it comes to ubiquity
<brainwash> so 13.10 feels more like a snapshot on the way to 14.04
<elfy> anyone got any idea why our Final tests are disabled? 
<GridCube> beats me
<GridCube> :/ i wanted to test today but i dont know if its worth
<drc> brainwash: Sticking my .02 â¬ in...I seem to remember this very thing was discussed several Team Meetings ago (right after Canonical announced that the non-LTS releases were going to be supported for only 9 months).  To be honest, I don't remember exactly what was decided: a) all releases were equal (but LTS release were more equal than others), or b) non-LTS releases were to be considered as snapshots.  Maybe some of the less-memory-challenged here ca
<drc> n pipe in on that.
<thad_> ochosi: I tried to start xfdesktop first and delay xfwm4 just a bit, but it does not work that well and even might cause some glitches.. so I simply used feh to set the root background according to the user's stored details (accountsservice) and xfwm4 picks up the background without any visible drawbacks
<Unit193> ochosi: I'm using the gtk2 indicators from precise and raring, so yes that works. :P
<thad_> Unit193: even the messages and sync one?
<Unit193> drc: Heh, well put.  Sounds like the old Russian way, "Yes, comrade captain!"
<Unit193> thad_: I don't use sync, but messages yes.
<thad_> well, nice to know :)
<Unit193> (Mixed raring and precise when I used raring too.)
<thad_> a solution for everyone would be great :P
<thad_> "soon" I guess
<Unit193> Hah, yeah.  That's just for crazies like me.  The GTK3 stack will hopefully make it into -backports. :)
<Noskcaj> What part of october 17th are we releasing on? I want to be the very first person running t-series
<elfy> 25 minutes after you've gone to bed
<Noskcaj> sounds about right
<Noskcaj> Since it is the 17th already
<elfy> there you go - we'll be releasing on the 18th as far as you're concerned :p
<drc> Do they still have a #release-party (or what ever it was called) ?
<elfy> apparently
<elfy> bit like driving for a while with kids in the back I'd imagine ;)
<drc> ah...#ubuntu-release-party  Already 22 in the channel :)
<elfy> are we there yet ... 
 * drc waits to the time-adding bot to kick in....
<brainwash> oh great, just before final release I broke the brtfs filesystem of my test installation :/
<brainwash> anyone familiar with brtfs? balancing the filesystem caused a kernel panic :(
<brainwash> (btrfs)
<brainwash> bug 1235798
<ubottu> bug 1235798 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel stops during btrfs-balance" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235798
<slickymaster> good night all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<slickymaster> Unit193, hi
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-17
<skellat> Are we leaving LP Bug #1208204 as a known issue at release?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208204
<Unit193> skellat: Well, it's way to late to land GTK3, can't port all the new stuff, so it'd either be a hack or fixed after release.
<skellat> Unit193: SRU/Backports it is
<skellat> Praise the Lord this thing is only supported for 9 months
<Unit193> It's the stable release for 9 months.
<pmjdebruijn> btw I tried to repackage indicator-sound as xubuntu-indicator-sound for a gtk2 service patch
<pmjdebruijn> but that didn't work, as Provides idnicator-sound doesn't work since indicator-sound-gtk2 defines an explicit version requirement
<pmjdebruijn> which Provides can't.... erhm... provide :)
<pmjdebruijn> so that was a bust
<pmjdebruijn> https://launchpad.net/~pmjdebruijn/+archive/xubuntu-indicator-sound-testing
<pmjdebruijn> I did modify the original package and put it on a ppa
<pmjdebruijn> but of course that's no feasible solution for upstream
<ali1234> there is no upstream
<ali1234> that code is not maintained any more
<pmjdebruijn> I meant upstream (ubuntu) packaging
<pmjdebruijn> sorry for the confusing wording
<elfy> @channel - if anyone can run any tests today that will be good - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/305/builds
<meetingology> elfy: Error: 'supybot.-' is not a valid configuration variable.
<elfy> stupid thing
<Unit193> xnox: Hello.  It seems ubiquity will not start and will "silently" fail if upower is not installed, might want to depend on it?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/6249950
<Unit193> (And thus ends my test, oom-killer took it out.)
<Unit193> ...Or I should stop doing weird things/breaking other peoples toys? :P
<elfy> where's the fun in that?
<xnox> Unit193: all ubiquity images have upower on them..... what image / cd are you using?
<Unit193> elfy: Less getting hollered at, here watch.
<Unit193> xnox: It's not anything relly, just debootstrap base and chroot in and install, then make live.
<Unit193> (ccan't type now.)
<Unit193> +well
<xnox> Unit193: don't do that.
<xnox> Unit193: that's not support, use lp:livecd-rootfs / lp:ubuntu-cdimage to build live images using seeds.
<xnox> Unit193: no need to re-invent all of that.
<Unit193> xnox: Where's the fun in that? :P  And that kind of assumes that I'm building a normal flavor?  Thanks for the links though, taking a look.  (Already re-invented thw wheel though.)  Figured you'd might want to know though, as it doesn't start without it...
<slickymaster> morning all
<elfy> morning slickymaster 
<xnox> Unit193: it's not the only thing that will not work.....
<xnox> Unit193: you do need a normalish desktopish install to make ubiquity actually work.
<Unit193> xnox: Understandable, I was using openbox. :D
<slickymaster> hi, elfy 
<Unit193> xnox: So guessing considered "NotABug"?  :/
<xnox> Unit193: i thought we had an openbox flabour, there was one unofficial one bluebuntu or something.
<Unit193> Not the slightest clue, was testing something else really.
<Unit193> xnox: And "regressions" in casper could be asked aoub in #ubuntu-installer perhaps?
<xnox> Unit193: casper dicussions are on-topic on #ubuntu-installer.
<Unit193> Cool, sorry for the bother (and lack of typing ability)
<elfy> knome: upgrades are tested - both 64bit and 32bit have at least 1 test I've done for each today and a bunch of tests done over the last few days for superseded ones
<elfy> biab
<knome> oki
<ochosi> brainwash: so i guess i have to check whether we can do in the greeter what feh does (set the root background)
<brainwash> ochosi: and we need to build xfwm4 with the flag which enables the copy mechanism of the root background
<brainwash> ..and do some testing, there have to be some drawbacks
<ochosi> yes?
<ochosi> like what
<brainwash> it's not enabled by default
<ochosi> so what are the drawbacks?
<brainwash> performance loss? the background gets set and then copied
<brainwash> maybe visual glitches
<brainwash> if something goes wrong
<brainwash> so it needs to be tested, but we got plenty of time until 14.04 :)
<ochosi> oh, i thought _you_ noticed some drawbacks
<ochosi> well yes, ofc it has to be tested
<ochosi> btw, didn't you point out that the calendar-icons were inconsistent in some sizes? (32 and 16px)
<ochosi> anyhoo, i fixed that yesterday
<knome> i think i did
<brainwash> wasn't me
<ochosi> ah, hi knome 
<ochosi> and: you're welcome ;)
<knome> hullo.
<knome> cheers
<brainwash> but it's usually my job to complain about low res icons :D
<brainwash> how do you mark bug 1232804 for the next release? or add it to the todo list for 14.04?
<ubottu> bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[compositing] improve login greeter -> desktop transition" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
<ochosi> i think knome started a blueprint for 14.04, you can link it there if you want
<ochosi> unless we're only using the wiki now to track 14.04, then you can add it there
<ochosi> (wait for knome's answer on that)
<knome> wha?
<knome> add to the wiki
<knome> easier to follow, supports locks and stuff
<knome> let's move stuff to blueprints when we are done and decided on stuff we want to work on
<brainwash> link?
<brainwash> most likely I'm not able to add it myself, so anyone with the required privileges has to it =S
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
<knome> you are if you have ubuntu SSO (LP account)
<brainwash> ok, it won't let me log in currently (stuck at the personal data request)
<ochosi> that sometimes takes a while
<ochosi> or a few attempts
<elfy> ochosi: sometimes ? is that some European thing for 'always' :p
<Unit193> And also something about copy it into a text editor before hitting save, or else you might lose it?
<elfy> ahah :)
<elfy> knome: so - when shall we/I mark these as ready?
<knome> elfy, i'm totally out of the loop. if they look/feel ready to you, please mark them as such
<elfy> lol - ok - well I've not seen anything new - some of the odd ubiquity issues are gone it seems
<elfy> I'll mark them now then
<knome> are there non-ready images?
<elfy> knome: yea - lubuntu for one
<knome> heh. i meant for xubuntu
<knome> ochosi, is it know that scrolling doesn't work on gedit (gtk3) on saucy?
<elfy> nope - I've marked our finals/dailies/upgrades
<brainwash> knome: bug 1236271
<ubottu> bug 1236271 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "GTK3 applications do not react to scroll wheel input when overlay scrollbars are activated" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236271
<knome> ah, so it's that.
<brainwash> xfwm4 not compatible with overlay scrollbars
<knome> how do i disable them?
<brainwash> normal unity/compiz shouldn't be affected
<brainwash> xubuntu does not ship with them :)
<knome> well apparently, i have them enabled after upgrade...
<knome> or then it's a non-overlay-scrollbar issue
<brainwash> the small scrollbars with the popup handle?
<knome> hmm, no
<knome> scrolling doesn't work without that either.
<knome> works in other apps
<brainwash> yes, only some gtk3 apps are affected
<knome> Setting the environment variable "GDK_CORE_DEVICE_EVENTS=1" does resolve this issue.
<brainwash> but the issue was gone after disabling overlay scrollbars on my system
<knome> that did it for me too
<brainwash> woot
<brainwash> strange
<knome> wait
<knome> no
<knome> huh.
<knome> yeah it did.
<brainwash> no clue what might be wrong here
<pleia2> congratulations, my friends :)
<smartboyhw> Congrats:)
<elfy> hi pleia2 
<pleia2> hi there elfy 
<pleia2> I shouldn't be awake
<elfy> neither should I - got exactly no sleep last night 
<slickymaster> afternoon all
<olbi> Gratz to Xubuntu 13.10, but this sound menu isn't very good for team :/
<elfy> really
<brainwash> thanks for reminding us about the sound indicator :)
<elfy> we deliberately made sure it wasn't fixed so people could complain
<GridCube> hahaha
 * slickymaster LOL
<elfy> I ought to say that I was in fact joking as someone might read the logs and think I was serious 
<elfy> for Justin's Case
<brainwash> ochosi: any news on how lubuntu locks the screen? still only vt switching without actually locking the session?
<olbi> hehe :D
 * skellat lifts his trucker's cup full of decaf tea to the notion that Stable Release Updates will be very needed for 13.10
<elfy> decaf tea? 
<skellat> elfy: I'm not allowed caffeine
<brainwash> who is in charge of setting up the xfce4-panel gtk3 indicator PPA?
<ali1234> brainwash: micahg was trying to do it
<Noskcaj> Has there name of t-series been announced yet?
<knome> not as far as i know
<Unit193> skellat: Erm, just looked at the T roadmap, that's not really what I was talking to xn ox about...
<Unit193> skellat: You are free to use that information for later use with Xubuntu core, but that was only slightly in mind at the time...
<Unit193> Added the meeting to the Xubuntu team calendar, but didn't see a link to it in the wiki or website.
<brainwash> ali1234: ok, maybe it will be up and running soon
<elfy> cya tomorrow
<brainwash> ali1234: any more news regarding the users-admin segfault? just leave the report open and forget about it?
<ali1234> nothing from me
<brainwash> any drawbacks when the clear operation gets removed?
<Unit193> knome: Most likely won't make it to the meeting, but I had nothing (of interest) to say anywho.
<Noskcaj10> I can't make the meeting (timezone issues), can we add python3 and what xfce4.11 stuff we want to the agenda?
<Noskcaj10> Or is that something for UDS?
<pleia2> updated http://docs.xubuntu.org/
<brainwash> would the change proposed by bug 1241210 affect Xubuntu?
<ubottu> bug 1241210 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "shouldn't use deprecated gtk-logout-helper" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241210
<Unit193> pleia2: Great!
<ali1234> i just realised something about the gtk2 sound indicator - it's actually really easy to bodge it and make it work
<ali1234> all that is required it to change the dbus service name in both halves and add a new dbus service initializer
<ali1234> then it will be as if it is a totally different indicator
<ali1234> this is probably what they should have done when changing to gtk3 in the first place
<Unit193> Please pardon my lack of knowledge on the subject, but would that mess with applications needing to access the dbus service, like gmusicbrowser or such?
<ali1234> yes, but volume control should work
<pleia2> hehe
<Unit193> Yey, not stupidz. \o/
<brainwash> but why would they even care about gtk2 "legacy" stuff?
<ali1234> it wasn't legacy until after it was replaced
<Unit193> I mean, it's not like they use it, why would anyone else?
<ali1234> we can't really complain
<ali1234> i mean even xubuntu is not going to use that in next release
<ali1234> if "they" are going to fix something i would rather it was #1203888
<ali1234> or #1074314
<Unit193> Stinks for LXDE, but not our problem at least.
<Unit193> bug #1074314  bug #1203888
<ubottu> bug 1074314 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime configuration panel only works in Unity session" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074314
<ubottu> bug 1203888 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "appindicator ignores menu entries after having sent the menu to the indicator" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203888
<ali1234> LXDE is moving to Qt anyway
<Unit193> Hah, nice.
<Unit193> ali1234: Not in 14.04, iirc.
<ali1234> yes, but they do depreciate things
<ali1234> i bet the released version isn't getting much love right now
<ali1234> i wonder, is it even possible to use indicators in a Qt desktop?
<ali1234> it must e if unity switches
<ali1234> but i don't see how
<ali1234> unless they also rewrite all indicators as Qt at the same time
<pleia2> what are we telling folks re: sound indicator? is there a bug report w/ work arounds?
<bluesabre> bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1208204
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged]
<bluesabre> work around at comment 27
<skellat> pleia2: It is in the release notes as a known issue.  I'm not aware of a valid workaround.
<pleia2> skellat: I know
<pleia2> I gave someone on facebook a link to the release notes, now he wants a work around ;)
<pleia2> was just wondering what the party line is, I'll advise waiting for a patch
<bluesabre> do we know if anybody is interested in actually fixing it in the indicator-sound package?
<pleia2> I hear bluesabre wants to
<bluesabre> I heard that too
<bluesabre> must be a rumor
<pleia2> :)
<skellat> bluesabre: Have we tested that workaround as being arch:any since it refers to amd64 only?  My netbook is still only 32-bit, for example...
<Unit193> Editing the file will get overwritten on package updates, but has the exact same upside, if we update to GTK3 it will too.
<bluesabre> skellat: that work around obiously needs a slight tweak for 32-bit
<bluesabre> the gtk3 update would be a wonderful solution
<skellat> What will SRU plus backports landing take in the time we've got before T opens?
 * skellat shuffles off to the kitchen
<Unit193> BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE FOOD IS!!
<Unit193> /Sorry.
<pleia2> :)
<brainwash> like expected, people are complaining about the release :(
<Unit193> Not where I'm looking, but isn't that to be expected?
<brainwash> it goes like this "That kind of bugs should really prevent a distribution from being released..."
<Unit193> Hah, yes.  The minor glitches shouldn't be there, hold the release!
<Unit193> (Don't get me wrong, I do kind of like the Debian style, but also does drive you nuts at times.)
<brainwash> but I'm curious, does Canonical not allow rescheduling the final release?
<Unit193> /topic Next focus: Tenacious Tribbles
<brainwash> and launchpad gets flooded by failed upgrade reports =S
<brainwash> maybe that's business as usual :D
<slickymaster> good night all
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-18
<Noskcaj_> Can someone add to the T-series planning page that debian will not be uploading any 4.11 stuff to unstable (we'd have to sync from experimental)
<Noskcaj_> I can't get wiki access till monday
<skellat> Noskcaj_: Generally for an LTS we would be synchronizing from Testing instead of Unstable
<Noskcaj_> skellat: But you can't upload to testing. If they don't upload to unstable, we can't sync from testing
<skellat> Noskcaj_: Bingo.
<skellat> You get to Testing generally after 10 days spent in Unstable
<skellat> So if 4.11 stuff isn't going to Unstable, it won't migrate to Testing, and won't get caught by autosync
<skellat> We'd have to think really hard about sync from Experimental
<skellat> Noskcaj_: What is going to land in Experimental?
<Noskcaj_> skellat: We've got all the released stuff packaged and ready in SVN, it's just waiting for corsac to upload the stuff. http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=pkg-xfce-devel%40lists.alioth.debian.org&comaint=yes
<Noskcaj_> Everything that the watchfiles show
<Noskcaj_> At least xubuntu will want to get settings 4.11.1 over 4.11
<skellat> I think adding it to the wiki can in fact wait until Monday
<skellat> But if you want I'll go ahead and put a note down on your behalf
<Noskcaj_> skellat: If you could. I'm not even sure i can access that part of the wiki
<skellat> Noskcaj_: If you can access one part, you can access all of it.  No superpowers involved.
<skellat> Actually, this is something I'm already assigned in the roadmap!
<skellat> [skellat] Anything else that can be cherry-picked from Testing?
<Unit193> Speaking of which, did you think I was talking about Xubuntu and the installer, skellat?
<Unit193> See comments from earlier?
<skellat> I did.  I saw the comments.  Will fix the wiki page.  Gimme a sec.
<Noskcaj_> We'll have to take parole from unstable since a kfreebsd issue is stoping it from migrating
<skellat> Link to PTS please?
<Unit193> I mean, it is a little related, but not fully unless we're doing an openbox meta/packageset too. :D
<Noskcaj_> http://packages.qa.debian.org/parole
<skellat> I added this to the wiki roadmap: (noskcaj) Certain 4.11 components are going to land in Experimental instead of Unstable which will block them making it into Testing for autosync
<Noskcaj_> Thanks
<Noskcaj_> Assuming corsac doesn't get to it, i'll prepare the latest parole on monday
<micahg> brainwash: sorry, been busy, will finish this weekend
<olbi> where are translating files for isos installer?
<slickymaster> morning all
<pmjdebruijn> hi guys
<pmjdebruijn> thanks for the great work
<elfy> morning slickymaster pmjdebruijn 
<slickymaster> elfy: o/ good morning
<slickymaster> elfy: while I have you here let me ask you something
<elfy> if I can answer I will :)
<slickymaster> elfy: do you think that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bug/1238718 should be linked in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1238718 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Errors in "Chapter 6. Connecting to Internet and Networks" of the Xubuntu Documentation saucy series" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<elfy> slickymaster: not sure tbh - but comment from skellat points to a SRU
<knome> wha
<slickymaster> knome: morning
<slickymaster> elfy: yes, we've discussed it
<knome> good afternoon
<knome> first, i should set up the T branch
<knome> then we should push that fix there
<knome> and then probably... just forget S :)
<knome> but i'm fine with backporting/SRU
<knome> but best to get the changes to the new branch first
<slickymaster> knome: there's also the issue that all the already completed translations should be amended accordingly in the case my merge proposal gets your ok
<knome> yep.
<slickymaster> knome: even though that besides mine there's only the russian translation
<olbi> why mughsot isn't defailt installed? :(
<knome> slickymaster, can you retarget the MP to lp:xubuntu-docs (is ../saucy now, since that's what it was targetted at)
<knome> olbi, it isn't packaged yet
<olbi> it is in PPA :)
<olbi> I installed it today :)
<knome> yes, and we aren't seeding things that are in PPA's
<olbi> but there wasn't my translations :P
<knome> what i meant it is that it is not packaged *and* in the repositories
<olbi> oh, ok
<knome> it's planned for T
<slickymaster> knome: sorry for the delay (I'm at work) but in order to retarget it, how do I go about that? Do I have to bzr push again?
<slickymaster> knome: or is it made through the LP site?
<knome> LP
<slickymaster> knome: editing the "Merge into:" option?
<knome> yep
<knome> just lose the /saucy part
<slickymaster> knome: maybe I'm blind but I'm not seeing how to it
<knome> heh
<knome> it's possible you first have to delete the request and then file another one
<slickymaster> knome: I would guess so, because I'm not finding any place to edit it
<knome> that's possible. i can't do it because it's your branch, and i don't exactly know how to do it. a new MP would at least work
<slickymaster> knome: I'll propose a new merge at lunch. and the previous one will it just stay hanging there?
<slickymaster> knome: I'm probably one of the major blind idiots you'll ever meet. It was in front of my eyes the all time. Here you go https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/191781
<slickymaster> knome: can you please confirm that correctly re-targeted ?
<slickymaster> that is correctly
<elfy> slickymaster: looks right to me 
 * slickymaster gotta learn to type
<slickymaster> elfy: and the previous one, https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/190739
<slickymaster> elfy: do you close it, make it invalid, somehow?
<elfy> no idea :)
<elfy> oic 
<slickymaster> elfy: "oic" ?!
<elfy> yes I do lol - if that's an old merge/code thing of your's then you can abandon it - or remove the merge request
<elfy> oic - read it out in letters :) Oh I See 
<slickymaster> elfy: even in portuguese I'm terrible with acronyms
<elfy> pretty sure there is a way to stop it being a merge request
<elfy> slickymaster: I'm sure I'd be rubbish at a Portuguese one ;)
<slickymaster> elfy: there's the delete proposal to merge option
<elfy> that's the one
<slickymaster> elfy and knome: deleted the https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/190739 merge proposal
<thad> elfy: remember the report about no being able to unlock a system with full disk encryption (basically keyboard input not working)?
<thad> here's a new report bug 1241505
<ubottu> bug 1241505 in linux (Ubuntu) "Wireless keyboard does not work after grub, and until after encrypted root volume is unlocked" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241505
<elfy> that's not nice 
<thad> happened to me too, so it's related to wireless keyboards most likely
<elfy> and why I'd not have seen it 
<ochosi> brainwash: yes, that's how they "lock" their session (i.e. not at all)
<elfy> thad: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-bugs/2013-09/msg04276.html
<thad> elfy: ah nice, let me reorganize the lp reports and add the opensuse report
<elfy> yay 
<elfy> I actually found something for a bug :p
<thad> it looks like every USB keyboard should be affected
<elfy> one person saw that I thought - I can't confirm that here - though I did check in a vm
<pmjdebruijn> most wireless keyboards look like plain USB HID to the host, don't they?
<slickymaster> pmjdebruijn: yes, you're right
<thad> nice to know
<thad> bug 1241505
<ubottu> bug 1241505 in linux (Ubuntu) "USB keyboard does not work after grub, and until after encrypted root volume is unlocked" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241505
<elfy> thad: not really sure how to confirm that bug without installing it and then not being able to actually ever login to :p
<elfy> thad: here's an odd one - not seen anything go through - just updated a vm install - restart button worked
<thad> the restart button worked? in which context?
<elfy> in the context of update manager
<thad> but the fixed package hasn't been uploaded yet..
<elfy> I know
<thad> clean xubuntu installation without consolekit, right?
<elfy> no - was an oldish one that it didn't work on 
<thad> maybe0 you've pulled ck in after adding some software
<elfy> possibly 
<thad> just checked, no new activity on the lp report
<elfy> I know :)
<thad> well, it's your bug report, so you'll get informed anyway :D
<elfy> :p
<thad> "LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: Trying to remove a child that doesn't believe we're it's parent."
<thad> when launching steam :)
<elfy> oh - well there is absolutely no chance whatsover of me seeing that one then :p
<thad> it's just a funny terminal output line
<thad> but speaking of steam, does anyone here run benchmarks and measure performance changes?
<thad> the phoronix guys usually only test outdated, non-relevant games like openarena
<elfy> thad: it is a funny output :)
<ali1234> thad: that's the appindicator bug
<ali1234> bug 1230888
<ubottu> bug 1230888 in murano "Murano Installation: script can not install conductor on Ubuntu 12.10" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1230888
<ali1234> oops, bug 1203888
<ubottu> bug 1203888 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "appindicator ignores menu entries after having sent the menu to the indicator" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203888
<ali1234> actually perhaps not
<ali1234> also, yeah i wish phoronix would test games people actually play on cards people actually use to play them
<ali1234> ie TF2 on mid-to-high end nvidia, with the proprietary driver
<thad> right, but I guess they know about this demand
<thad> oh dammit, could lp stop syncing all the external comments...
<olbi> two monitors works great but after I plug in second, there should appear window but didn't :/
<dastan> hi
<dastan> i want to do create ubuntu mini shop in my country
<dastan> can any one help
<ochosi> olbi: that depends on the driver/display
<ochosi> olbi: if you use the VGA connector, it's very likely, there's no signal by the connector/driver
<olbi> I have been using HDMI and VGA with Intel driver
<ochosi> olbi: with DVI/HMDI/DisplayPort it's much more likely
<olbi> HDMI was connected and than plugged VGA
<ochosi> try the other way round
<ochosi> and then you should get a notification
<ochosi> vga hardly ever works in that respect
<ochosi> but nothing we can do about that unfortunately...
<olbi> ok, I try with others connector but Edge-HD4 only have HDMI and VGA :D
<dastan> why vga is require
<dastan> are screen brightness is issue
<olbi> and my second display is only VGA :P
<ochosi> olbi: well you can make vga your primary display and connect hdmi after startup to test ;)
<olbi> hmm, :)
<dastan> are you want to configure scree gamma 
<dastan> means contrast
<dastan> i can help
<olbi> VGA was primary and plugin HDMI, nothing happens :P
<ochosi> olbi: you mean you restarted your session? anyhoo, you can check whether there's a signal by monitoring ~/.cache/upstart/startxfce4
<ochosi> olbi: e.g. with "tail -f"
<dastan> sorry
<olbi> no, didnt restared session :)
<olbi> now i try with this
<dastan> how to traverse channel
<dastan> i got shit no one reply my answer
<brainwash> ochosi: so lxlock simply switches to the greeter... and nobody complains about the unlocked session?
<ochosi> brainwash: well webupd8 mentioned it in its brief review, i'm not really up-to-date with lubuntu users though, so i don't know what they think about it :]
<GridCube> brainwash, everybody is more concerned about the sound indicator
<elfy> GridCube: +1 
<ochosi> GridCube: yeah, but the sound-indicator is a Xubuntu problem, while the unlocked session is a Lubuntu problem
<GridCube> oh, i see
<olbi> why we cant use temporary this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1208204/comments/27
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged]
<ochosi> olbi: because that change would break unity's indicators, afaik
<olbi> :/
<ali1234> that probably wouldn't break unity but it would break on 32 bit, or arm, or a load of other cases
<ali1234> xfburn doesn't support blu-ray :/
<olbi> try Nero :)
<olbi> it was only working burning software with blu-ray :D
<ochosi> ali1234: xfburn isn't exactly in active development...
<brainwash> ochosi: you should have given them some advice! :) like forcing them to use light-locker :P
<brainwash> ochosi: wait a minute.. I will have to verify it, but I'm pretty sure, that the "login" button wasn't labeled "unlock" after "locking" the session
<brainwash> (lightdm gtk greeter)
<Unit193> brainwash: Not sure what jmarsden is up to now, or lezak, but gilir comes around every couple weeks.
<brainwash> Unit193: maybe I'll file a bug report
<brainwash> this issue is even worse than the sound indicator one, but it does not generate any uproar
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1205384 was the one linked to on the ML (why I'm still on it I don't know.)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1205384 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Lock can be circumvented by switching to console" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> the lock does not even get circumvented, because nothing is actually locked :)
<Unit193> Yep.
<brainwash> I'll keep an eye on this report
<brainwash> ochosi: xfpm waits 2 seconds before locking the screen and xscreensaver adds another second
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/xfce4-power-manager/saucy/view/head:/src/xfpm-power.c#L346
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-19
<Unit193> brainwash: Having your fun for the evening?
<brainwash> bug 1222021
<ubottu> bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Laptop sleeps when lid is closed, regardless of Power Manager Settings." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222021
<brainwash> xfpm needs to inhibit the systemd lock-on-lid-close trigger
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/gnome-settings-daemon/saucy/revision/248/debian/patches/logind_support.patch
<brainwash> ehm, sleep-on-lid-close I mean
<brainwash> is it always that silent in this channel after a release? :)
<Unit193> Well I'm busy trying to patch something in a language I don't know. :D
<brainwash> sounds familiar :)
<olbi> hello, do you know when will be fixed that bug with sound indicator? :)
<forestpiskie>  /list
<forestpiskie> whoops
<forestpiskie> olbi: not at the moment I don't - but it's unlikely that anything will happen very soon
<olbi> that sounds bad :(
<Unit193> brainwash: Except you know what you're doing. :P
<brainwash> Unit193: I'm not an expert and I get confused by all the different APIs pretty easily
<brainwash> yes, we did it! we hit the 500 heat mark
<olbi> so how I can using now sound without this strange fix? :P
<olbi> only PulseAudio?
<olbi> GUI?
<brainwash> this workaround isn't strange
<brainwash> it's straightforward
<brainwash> apply it and the indicator will work just like in 13.04
<olbi> I know that it work, but some says that it could cause some trauble :P
<brainwash> the "comment 5" fix?
<olbi> comment 27
<brainwash> comment 41
<brainwash> this one is only needed if you run unity/gnome3 side by side with xubuntu/xfce
<brainwash> otherwise use the simple version (comment 5)
<olbi> ok
<GridCube> brainwash, you understand the things said in comment 41?
<GridCube> can you make a simple explaination so i can point people to it to read it? maybe a .sh they can run?
<olbi> it could be sh with gksudo :)
<GridCube> that would be nice
<brainwash> it executes a shell command: test if Xfce is running, if yes -> load the gtk2 sound indicator, if no -> load the gtk3 indicator
<olbi> maybe today do it and I could test it
<olbi> than send it to mailing list
<GridCube> olbi, i dont want to impose him to do anything :)
<olbi> this was suggestion :]
<GridCube> i don't understand this but its something we eagerly need
<olbi> ok, I have another question with translations, in Preferences there are Additional Drivers and Printers, from where they take PO files?
<brainwash> to be honest, don't expect any official fix for it, the main goal is to provide a new version of xfce4-panel with the gtk3 indicator wrapper in the backports repository
<GridCube> brainwash, i know, but for the moment we need a workaround, and comment 41 seems the most reasonable, if only we can make it user friendly :/
<brainwash> it is user friendly
<brainwash> or you mean some sort of 1 click script
<brainwash> maybe even an extra PPA o.o
<GridCube> brainwash, that workaround needs to be run everytime an user start an xfce session? or is it a one time only?
<GridCube> no, i dont think a ppa is needed, maybe just a script that can be run
<brainwash> one time (until the file gets changes by an update)
<brainwash> changed
<GridCube> like a "official fix this thing script" from us
<brainwash> unofficial
<GridCube> well if i can get knome to put in on the xubuntu.org blog that would do it "semi-official" :P
<brainwash> the bug report is already linked (known issues list)
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> im talking about a script that puts the workaround to work, not just a link to something alien to non programer users
<Unit193> Workarounds are always unofficial, the official fix is to wait for the fix.
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> true that
<GridCube> then i need an unofficial person who understand to make a safe script that i can like people without fear
<olbi> Are there Daily Build of stable ISO or it is doing once for some time?
<smartboyhw> olbi, for non-LTS releases there will not be any builds after the released image. For LTS releases there will still be daily builds, and releases of images with updates
<olbi> smartboyhw: thx
<ali1234> GridCube: just link people to the gtk3 instructions :/
<GridCube> ali1234, where them?
<brainwash> bug 1238997
<ubottu> bug 1238997 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Add support for GTK3 panel indicators" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238997
<GridCube> thats confusing
<brainwash> link included
<ali1234> GridCube: then help to put it in a ppa
<GridCube> but thats the fix, that will eventually come anyway
<ali1234> yeah, in 14.04
<GridCube> yes
<ali1234> have fun waiting
<GridCube> thats not what im talking about, im talking about giving plain user a simple way to have a working desktop in 5 seconds
<ali1234> by editing some configuration files?
<ali1234> every time they upgrade?
<GridCube> the workaround does that, if i knew how to do the .sh file i would but im afraid ill make mistakes
<GridCube> and i don't know what i would be doing
<GridCube> thats why i asked if someone who knew could do it, if not then its not really an issue, i will keep pointing people to the bug report and leave them in their own frustration
<ali1234> why is it that people want sill workarounds instead of a proper fix?
<brainwash> I'll ignore this issue from now on
<GridCube> alright then
<bluesabre> parole-0.5.90 (dev release for 0.6.0) finally released: http://www.smdavis.us/2013/10/19/parole-media-player-0-5-90/
<bluesabre> not that we don't have enough to do around here :)
<olbi> :)
<olbi> so many changes :D
<bluesabre> ochosi and I have been working hard on it for a while now :)
<astraljava> ochosi: or anyone really, can you confirm the missing browser text field suggestion list index highlight on Greybird theme? I can see it on Bluebird.
<astraljava> Tried on Chrome, will give it a go on Firefox next.
<astraljava> Oh well, seems to affect Chrome only.
<astraljava> Tough luck
<soundnowork> sound no work :(
<ali1234> yeah, we know
<brainwash> soundnowork: go away
<soundnowork> ok, bye
<brainwash> ali1234: still no comment on your patch for xfce4-terminal :/
<ali1234> i might have the ability to commit it myself, not sure :)
<brainwash> go for it! :)
<skellat> Some received static: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1208204/comments/66
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged]
<brainwash> untested is the wrong word :)
<brainwash> someone published a "patch" in the previous comment
<knome> brainwash, what was that (re: soundnowork)?
<brainwash> knome: dunno
<brainwash> ochosi: interesting, "dm-tool switch-to-greeter" triggers gnome-screensaver in the active session, but the label shown in the greeter is still labeled "login"
<brainwash> ochosi: ah, so it's basically user-switching and screen locking
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-20
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9335
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9335 in General "inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> what a bummer
<brainwash> any chance to include the patch?
<ran_> i have a problem withe synaptic on 13.10
<ran_> when onboard (virtual keyboard) is loaded, and i load synaptic. synaptic crashes.
<ran_> if i close onboard. everything is fine, synaptic works properly.
<ran_> i have also tried another virtual keyboard (flurance), and synaptic crashed again.
<ran_> so there is some strange problem/conflict between synaptic and virtual keyboards.
<brainwash> is there any chance to fix bug 1222021 in saucy? there is a patch available, but it did not get accepted upstream
<ubottu> bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Laptop sleeps when lid is closed, regardless of Power Manager Settings." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222021
<brainwash> basically xfpm still needs some adjustments to be fully systemd/logind compatible
<brainwash> otherwise it will stay broken
<knome> Unit193, aha?
<Unit193> knome: Fine.
<Unit193> menu_color_normal=white/black is normal, menu_color_normal=cyan/blue is what you'd get.
<Unit193> Also, it says "Ubuntu, with blah", it would say "Xubuntu GNU/Linux, with blah"
<Unit193> grep GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR /etc/grub.d/* -C6   to see.
<knome> mhm.
<knome> could we append "(Xubuntu)" to blah? 
<knome> or something
<brainwash> kubuntu does simply override the displayed name
<Unit193> brainwash: Check the output of that grep command, they get special treatment.
<brainwash> but why?
<Unit193> Ubuntu|*ubuntu  might work though.
<Unit193> brainwash: Maybe back in the day when Kubuntu and Ubuntu were almost equal.
<knome> we could look into changing it to that.
<brainwash> but ubuntu is the correct term, because you boot ubuntu and then choose the graphical session afterwards
<Unit193> knome: Yeah, that proposal works.
<Unit193> brainwash: Yep. :P
<Unit193> (Still does confuse people, sadly.)
<Unit193> brainwash: How does Kubuntu do it anyway?
<brainwash> uhm, some extra file which gets sourced by grub
<brainwash> I'll check it
<Unit193> I used /etc/default/grub.d/xubuntu.cfg
<Unit193> brainwash: Sorry, some of this is from OT.
<Unit193> Ubuntu|?ubuntu would likely be a better regex to use.
<Unit193> (in 10_linux, and 05_debian_theme)
<knome> what about ubuntu studio?
<Unit193> ?ubuntu* would be too much, wouldn't it?  Edubuntu wouldn't be picked up either, nor would the mythtv one.
<brainwash> 50_kubuntu.cfg
<brainwash> "# Hijack distributor if it is Ubuntu (default on Ubuntu systems...)
<brainwash> "
<knome> the first thing we should look at is the social side, not the technical
<knome> but feel free to discuss that as well if you fancy
<Unit193> knome: Remember what I first said, right?
<knome> it doesn't work?
<knome> or if you're asking whether i remember your first first word, no you haven't told me that
<Unit193> <Unit193> Hey knome, one of the pointless Unit193 things, you can put /etc/default/grub.d/xubuntu.cfg in xubuntu-default-settings and have it read GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=Xubuntu for the grub boot screen to say that this is Xubuntu GNU/Linux. :D    (Then linked to http://paste.openstack.org/show/vZVo6rEcgyVOec0lVk9o )
<knome> yes?
<knome> i seem to be missing something
<Unit193> Re: technical/social side of it, it started out as a pointless thing. :P
<knome> sure.
<knome> but i think it is worth looking at at least briefly
<brainwash> wouldn't we need a solution for every spin?
<knome> brainwash, naturally that file would be seeded, thus in in every spin
<brainwash> which package?
<brainwash> the kubuntu one comes with kubuntu-settings-desktop
<knome> xubuntu-default-settings or something.
<knome> that's the smallest of our worries
<brainwash> indeed
<Unit193> brainwash: Others can do as they wish, but the regex to include other flavors is the important one.  Kyline is another one that wouldn't get included with either one shown so far. :P
<knome> *kylin
<Unit193> WOw, closer than I thought.
<knome> heh
<slickymaster> good night all
<knome> hello slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi, knome. Hope everything is fine with you
<slickymaster> knome, as I'm not sure if you got to notice it, I did manage last friday to retarget https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bug/1238718 to xubuntu-docs
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1238718 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Errors in "Chapter 6. Connecting to Internet and Networks" of the Xubuntu Documentation saucy series" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<slickymaster> knome, https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/191781 at your disposal :)
<knome> slickymaster, i did, thanks.
<knome> i'll get to that in some time, or at latest next week
<slickymaster> knome, no hurries. As I said I wasn't sure whether you saw it or not, that's why I mentioned it now
<knome> slickymaster, merged
<slickymaster> knome, thanks. You're a gentleman
<knome> heh, no problem
<brainwash> knome: can I link reports to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu or do things need to be discussed beforehand or added to the wiki page?
<knome> brainwash, what reports?
<knome> brainwash, bugs?
<brainwash> small visual improvements
<knome> add them in the wiki for now
<brainwash> hopefully I won't break the wiki page =S
<knome> we can revert if you do...
<brainwash> but the wiki page does not link to the actual lp report
<knome> (Bug:1234567)
<brainwash> well, no entry there does
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> knome: do we keep track of the remaining saucy bugs which haven't been fixed before final release?
<knome> brainwash, they're mostly linked to the t blueprint
<brainwash> so confusing :)
<slickymaster> knome, cy tomorrow
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-13
<skellat> brainwash: Numix pales in comparison or...?
<skellat> Numix makes us look like W10?
<ali1234> i think he was just being random?
<brainwash> nono.. http://cu88.deviantart.com/art/Numix-Theme-Windows-10-Technical-Preview-485934628
<ali1234> wait, windows 10 is out?
<brainwash> read carefully
<brainwash> Technical Preview
<ali1234> i dont want to :)
<ali1234> i don't even understand any of this
<skellat> Ubuntu may want phone/desktop convergence....
<skellat> ....but Numix will bring SYNERGY in visual elements of design
<brainwash> Numix can change the world
<ali1234> i;m so confused
<brainwash> I'm testing different operating systems right now, win 10 tech preview is one of them
<brainwash> maybe I should test xubuntu 14.10 too :)
<Unit193> brainwash: Read the (lack of)privacy policy?
<brainwash> of course
<brainwash> they only want to steal your soul (and improve the windows experience)
<brainwash> Unit193: any success with packaging systemd 215/216?
<Unit193> Slowly, it's always a "fun" one to do.
<LinusTorvaldII> i wonder if that 10 preview will actually expire like they say
<LinusTorvaldII> it may never expire
<Noskcaj> ali1234, I've had the up directory crash again, still no idea how to reliably reproduce it
<andrzejr> ali1234, so far noautogroup boot option seems to do the job for me. Really happy with that.
<andrzejr> I wish it wasn't necessary or documented on the xubuntu download page,
<brainwash> bluesabre: bug 1285440, last comment
<ubottu> bug 1285440 in xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin "Switch Users" functionality" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1285440
<brainwash> someone wrote a python script for user switching
<bluesabre> brainwash: ok, but there is really no need to include another script to switch users. If a user is capable of removing light-locker, they can certainly handle changing the switch-users command in whisker
<bluesabre> we can ping gottcode to see if he wants to include something like that upstream
<bluesabre> I'm also guessing that script still leaves the user session open in a separate, completely unprotected VT?
<bluesabre> anyway, gotta run. I'll be uploading packages from https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/lp1320560 tonight.  Can you do some preliminary testing?
<bluesabre> xfswitch-plugin and xfce4-panel will work with dm-tool or gdmflexiserver
<bluesabre> the other two are patched to only use dm-tool
<bluesabre> ochosi: if you get a chance, check out my light-locker branch and try it out
<bluesabre> you'll have to install it (/usr/local is fine), and you can tweak the settings from dconf-editor (/apps/light-locker/)
<bluesabre> from my testing, I was having issue unless I apt-get removed the installed light-locker, so maybe /usr is better
<bluesabre> https://github.com/bluesabre/light-locker
<elfy> evening all - apparently RC is at the end of the week 
<pleia2> so... I know what I'm doing this weekend?
<elfy> well
<elfy> can't say as I'm that worried tbh
<pleia2> good
<pleia2> my usb sticks are unhappy, so I've been having the worst time
<elfy> going to be too late to do anything much - and there's not any omg the sky fell in bugs about
 * pleia2 nods
<elfy> pleia2: unetbootin has been causing me issues, dd works, the buntu disk creator ... 
<pleia2> so, how do /you/ create usb sticks for testing?
<elfy> has been working :)
<elfy> I use whichever - I know I can boot unetbootin regardless of it giving the com32 error
<pleia2> dd left me with a 32-bit drive that had decompression errors, and a 64-bit with mountains of i/o errors
<elfy> mmm 
<pleia2> like this, right? sudo dd if=/data/software/ubuntu/xubuntu/testing/utopic-desktop-i386.iso of=/dev/sdc bs=4M; sync
 * skellat confesses he burns optical media
<elfy> there is a bug somewhere
<elfy> pleia2: I don't sync nor bs=4m
<pleia2> without bs doesn't it take like 100 ys?
 * pleia2 reaches into bag 'o usb sticks and tries another
<elfy> don't notice that tbh - I'm usually doing something else and then it's "Oh yea - where's that stick ..."
<elfy> pleia2: try the ubuntu tool - that's been working fine
<elfy> skellat: well I'm glad I don't do that - I'd be buying stacks of the things :)
<pleia2> they've both been giving me headaches
<pleia2> then I submit bug reports and get "unetbootin? just dd it!"
<pleia2> 1027604480 bytes (1.0 GB) copied, 1.48843 s, 690 MB/s
<elfy> pleia2: I'll see if I can dig up the last bug I saw
<pleia2> heh, ok
<pleia2> that took like 3 seconds
<pleia2> seems my other drives are wonky
<elfy> oh - might even be the same bug - I do remember commenting something like "Who's going to use dd?"
<elfy> lol - could be ;)
<elfy> unetbootin has been a pain this cycle - almost as much as vbox
<pleia2> my usb stick just makes stuff up when it thinks it's writing to it with dd, all my old stuff is still there
<pleia2> 1027604480 bytes (1.0 GB) copied, 0.463047 s, 2.2 GB/s
<pleia2> lies and falsehoods!
<elfy> not having a lot of luck there then 
<pleia2> you'd think a tool like dd which I've used for like 100 years wouldn't be so faily with me
<elfy> I had similar yesterday - don't use dd often so panicked a bit thinking I'd killed something I didn't want to
<elfy> had to format the stick and then dd worked ok
<pleia2> haha, yeah, it's definitely sdc!
<pleia2> ah, maybe that's it then
<elfy> yea - exactly the same scenario here :D
<pleia2> Hidden HPFS/NTFS
<pleia2> the heck is that
 * pleia2 deletes
<elfy> but it said it worked and then it hadn't - formatted and then it said it worked and it had
<pleia2> dd trolls me
<ElderDryas> pleia2: Is the "hidden" partition perhaps what's left over after dd does it's thing (i.e., a 2 gig stick and dd needing only 1 gig...I've seen that {the rest hidden} before)?
<pleia2> ElderDryas: nah, it's a goofy thing the drive shipped with, I've used this disk to store random workshop/conference files in the past
<ElderDryas> seen that also...gparted to the rescue :)
<pleia2> fdisk 4evar
<ElderDryas> nah...gui's forever (easier to click than type)
<elfy> gparted told me that the usb was convinced it had a small fat16 partition at the beginning and nothing else
<davmor2> pleia2: parted forever, it's like the vim emacs wars all over again
<pleia2> new error upon booting from it "Missing operating system"
 * pleia2 shakes fist
<pleia2> I have to get back to work, I'll deal with use later, usb stick
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> davmor2: haha :)
<ElderDryas> "all over again"?  when did it ever stop?
<davmor2> pleia2: it wasn't the secureboot bit you just removed was it?
<pleia2> if a usb stick has a secureboot bit I'm gonna throw it away
<davmor2> pleia2: no but if it is a boot media it might
<davmor2> pleia2: don't forget I don't know what you are using it for
<pleia2> I'm just dding an iso to it for iso testing
<davmor2> pleia2: yes so if the iso is 64bit then it will have the uefi/secure boot stuff on it
<pleia2> this is 32-bit
<davmor2> pleia2: it contains the menu that you select from
<pleia2> haven't tried the 64-bit one yet
<davmor2> pleia2: ah okay then, I don't know if uefi got moved to that too and secureboot didn't or not
<ochosi> hmm, still haven't heard back from xnox about the black background in ubiquity
<ochosi> i have a rather busy week and am abroad thu-sun, if any of you could ping him bout it, that'd be much appreciated!
<ochosi> (background: he promised to take a look, since we couldn't find any relevant changes that would explain why there's no wallpaper shown in the installer in 14.10 while 14.04 worked/works fine)
<brainwash> ochosi: heh, running out of time
<ochosi> well yes
<brainwash> ubuntu studio should be affected also I guess
<brainwash> xnox seems to be somewhat inactive right now, or?
<brainwash> I've pinged him some time ago, I've subscribed him to the bug report
<ochosi> yeah, it's not easy to get a hold of him
<ochosi> i guess if it would be a higher-priority bug, we would've already gotten it sorted
<ochosi> but it's odd, i really took a look at the source and couldn't see any indication of why it wouldn't work anymore
<brainwash> at least it's not the debian background :)
<brainwash> I suspect that it's something caused by gnome -> gnome-settings-daemon?
<brainwash> or is ubuntu-settings-daemon being used in this case?
<ochosi> no idea
<ochosi> the source that is responsible for setting the background seemed the same, is all i can say
<brainwash> so literally.. nothing changed, but there is a black background now :/
<ochosi> well, that was my assessment
<ochosi> i guess i wrong, obviously
<ochosi> 'm
<ochosi> but yeah, bluesabre also took a lot and didn't spot anything, which is why we need to ask and bug xnox
<skellat> brainwash: I have no clue where we could go with LP Bug 1380775 as I'm having trouble understanding running gnome-shell atop Xubuntu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1380775 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Logout box very long to come" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1380775
<brainwash> I've just added a comment
<skellat> I'm tempted to say for 15.04 we might need start including "Breaks:" in packaging debian/control files increasingly to avoid inappropriate mixing and matching of components
<brainwash> but maintaining these control changes adds more overhead
<skellat> I know
<skellat> That's why it is tempting but I recognize there is a cost to it
<skellat> I'm marking LP Bug #1380194 as Opinion as that's a defaults settings request
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1380194 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "Terminal emulator open menu after i press F1 or F10 key" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1380194
<brainwash> right, makes sense
<skellat> Incidentally, I will say that AskUbuntu patrol has been horrific
<skellat> People claiming they're running Xubuntu but tear everything out but xfwm4 and put in MATE instead...
<skellat> :-\
<skellat> brainwash: Can you take a look at LP Bug 1379702?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1379702 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Hotkeys does not work or works wrong after few suspend/resume" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1379702
<skellat> I don't think that is an issue in xubuntu-meta
<skellat> And bdmurray did a lazy dumping on us
<brainwash> most likely xfce4-settings. the xfsettingsd process may be stuck or in some sort of idle state
<brainwash> I'll add a comment later
<brainwash> skellat: also, bug 1377651
<ubottu> bug 1377651 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "ufw breaks sendto, even when disabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1377651
<brainwash> needs to be reassigned
<skellat> Well, for LP Bug #1377651 that falls on ufw instead of xubuntu-meta so I think I'll reassign it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1377651 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "ufw breaks sendto, even when disabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1377651
<brainwash> ok, thanks
<skellat> That one is out of our basket now
<bluesabre> hey brainwash
<brainwash> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> have you had a chance to test those packages in my ppa? they should work, just looking for additional verification
<brainwash> not yet, I'll have to reboot and then boot the daily iso (which I'll have to download first)
<brainwash> but the packages need to be tested again after landing in -proposed
<brainwash> so, you should be safe to just update the packages, or?
<bluesabre> well, they'll land directly for utopic
<bluesabre> give or take a few hours
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> mmmh, where are our testers? test some new packages and get a cookie :)
<bluesabre> I'll probably go ahead and build a few alternate configs to test (one normal, one with gdm)
<brainwash> should we really care about gdm that much?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-14
<bluesabre> its a proper way to make sure gdmflexiserver is still A-OK
<bluesabre> we're in linux-land, where people use xfce4-session, wingpanel, nautilus, and dragon media player in the same environment
<brainwash> poor guys
<bluesabre> ... and then report printing bugs on parole
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> did printing break again? dammit, you had one job, parole!
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> bluesabre: tried to confirm that feh comment
<elfy> couldn't though 
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> elfy: what feh comment?
<Unit193> elfy: He looked at it as well, worked for a second then nope.
<elfy> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1375893/comments/4
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1375893 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Black background to Try/Install Dialogue" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> right, re: that, i still haven't been able to reach xnox
<ochosi> so if any of you sees him around, please don't hesitate to ping him about this bug
<elfy> not seen him for a while
<Unit193> 19:45:29
<ali1234> i installed ffmpeg, now tumblerd segfaults every single time i open thunar
<bluesabre> yikes
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: you around?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Yeah
<knome> tsr_dev, connection problems?
<tsr_dev> yeah, sorry guys, think I've sorted myself out now!
<pleia2> meeting in 10 \o/
<pleia2> or 9
<elfy> or 1
<knome> :)
<pleia2> hello Xubuntu-ers!
<knome> hullo
<pleia2> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 14 20:00:58 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pleia2> #chair knome elfy 
<meetingology> Current chairs: elfy knome pleia2
<knome> o/
<pleia2> who else is here? :)
<knome> (promised to help if needed)
<elfy> who knows ... 
<slickymasterWork> o/ ish
<skellat> o/
<pleia2> #chair slickymasterWork 
<meetingology> Current chairs: elfy knome pleia2 slickymasterWork
<pleia2> w00t
<slickymasterWork> lol
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> #topic Open action items
<elfy> #chair skellat
<meetingology> Current chairs: elfy knome pleia2 skellat slickymasterWork
<pleia2> #done pleia2 to contact unixstickers
<knome> ooh, what's their reply?
<pleia2> I emailed them this morning, so we'll get a response someday :)
<knome> okay
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> knome: re: translations list email, is that https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-October/010427.html ?
<pleia2> that's the last action item from last meeting
 * knome checks
<knome> yes, that's the thread
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<slickymasterWork> the pad is over at http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-apps-translations
<knome> and the pad is linked in the mail too
<slickymasterWork> maybe it could be moved to the process page now
<knome> yep, we have an agenda item for that
<slickymasterWork> okie dokie
<knome> so maybe you both should read the meetings page ;)
<slickymasterWork> will you do it knome?
<knome> i will
<slickymasterWork> lol
 * slickymasterWork has been having a hell of a day
<slickymasterWork> still working :P
<pleia2> heh
<pleia2> alright, that's all the action items
<pleia2> #topic Team updates
<pleia2> I don't think I've done anything
<knome> #done knome has worked on improving the process documentation
<skellat> #info skellat has continued AskUbuntu patrol and the question mis-tagging where xubuntu is tagged instead of something else remains fairly high
<elfy> #info Testing is still in the doldrums
<elfy> #info RC testing isn't likely to be around till the weekend earliest
<skellat> #info skellat and brainwash have been doing bug sorting/reassignments
<knome> #done knome has been working with elfy et al. planning the QA processes and improvements for the V cycle and beyond
<skellat> Victorious Velociraptor!
<pleia2> so, any other updates?
<knome> hmm
<knome> #done bluesabre has uploaded some translation updates and bugfixes for packages
<knome> i think that's it
<knome> we're past pretty much all freezes, so quiet
<pleia2> ok, let's have some discussion!
<pleia2> #topic Translations important for Xubuntu
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-October/010427.html
<pleia2> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-October/010427.html
<knome> this is the discussion
<knome> has anybody anything else to add, or should we move the list to the processes page as is (remember, it's easy enough to update)
<slickymasterWork>  IMO it should be moved as is
<knome> #action knome to move the "translations important for xubuntu" list to the processes page, discussion can continue when needed
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to move the "translations important for xubuntu" list to the processes page, discussion can continue when needed
<knome> let's move on :)
<pleia2> #topic Testing processes change proposal
<pleia2> #link http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-qa-v-cycle
<knome> i think that at this point, it would be great if all team members could go through the pad, and comment where appropriate
<elfy> draft it is - would be good to see responses and discussions about that on the mailing list from the rest of team if not the pad
<pleia2> where do I put "making a usb image is hard"?
<elfy> it's important to me to get this sorted - while no-one should be expected to test all cycle long - apart from perhaps me 
<knome> pleia2, add it somewhere
<elfy> but if next cycle I get the same apathy then I'll be done and someone else can do it
<elfy> blunt perhaps - but that's how team has made me feel about it
<elfy> what's even worse is people in team talking about installing this version and not showing up on the tracker
<knome> elfy, i was thinking that after N days of commenting time, we could put up a more formalized proposal up on the list, and then run that through the minimal bureaucracy we have, then start working with the work items that pop up from that
<pleia2> there
<knome> pleia2, thanks ;)
<skellat> Do we need to have new/improved tutorial(s) on creating USB boot devices?
<elfy> knome: perhaps 
<knome> skellat, i just wrote that in the pad
<elfy> also I would love for team to fill in the gaps on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TeamHardware
<pleia2> just improve this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
<knome> #action knome to write a more formalized proposal about the QA process improvements with elfy after N days of comments/feedback for the pad
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to write a more formalized proposal about the QA process improvements with elfy after N days of comments/feedback for the pad
<Unit193> Hmmm.  So at this point not fully sure what's wanted and useful.  It was almost asked, but not quite.
<knome> #action xubuntu-quality to look how they can help the ubuntu QA team to update/improve the wiki
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-quality to look how they can help the ubuntu QA team to update/improve the wiki
<knome> #nick xubuntu-quality
<elfy> please don't action me for things knome 
<elfy> without asking
<elfy> that is :)
<knome> elfy, well i'm sorry... i was the main actioner anyway; if you don't want to do that, i'll just do it myself :P
<Unit193> elfy: Hate to be a pain, but that testing page, is that installs/upgrades or do live count too?
<elfy> Unit193: I don't understand the question
<knome> elfy, what i mean is... i don't consider you responsible for that item :)
<knome> (even if the bot picks you up for that, so you can just ignore)
<knome> (i'll be in touch with you)
<elfy> knome: well for the most part I am xubuntu-quality as most of the rest is just people's names it seems
<knome> elfy, ah...
<knome> elfy, i consider all team-items to be loose-ended and not assigned to anybody either.
<skellat> #nick xubuntu-bugs
<knome> elfy, i'll probably take the first part and talk with balloons on what he thinks we (the ubuntu qa team) should improve in the wiki
<skellat> #action xubuntu-bugs to collaborate more with QA and other teams during 15.04 cycle
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-bugs to collaborate more with QA and other teams during 15.04 cycle
<knome> skellat, if you add action items, add something actionable :)
<skellat> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<elfy> Unit193: livesessions are part of the iso testing if that's what you mean
<knome> but i agree that what you wrote is needed
<skellat> #action xubuntu-bugs to create triage plan with QA
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-bugs to create triage plan with QA
<Unit193> elfy: I can list 'hardware' if I don't have to install or otherwise touch the installation.  I do of course have 2 I can (and do) run upgrade tests on.
<elfy> oic sorry - that page
<elfy> if you don't want me to assume you can do something don't tick it :)
<knome> pleia2, gosh, that page is like wall of text
<pleia2> knome: sure is
<knome> instead of million different ways to do it, i think we need one that works
<pleia2> they're all broken sometimes
<elfy> pleia2: you'll not see me telling people to testdrive - you'll see me telling people to not do that :)
<slickymasterWork> exactly knome 
<knome> i would advise against testdrive as well.
<pleia2> elfy: yeah, but looking at the Ubuntu QA docs, they all talk about testdrive
<elfy> knome: so last cycle - unetbootin was \o/ and the buntu tool was /o\ 
<elfy> other way round this cycle
<pleia2> I was looking the other day after I submitted that bug about how I was using unetbootin and a response was like "you're supposed to just use dd to copy them"
<knome> testdrive is not well maintained, and adds just another layer of possible places for bugs to hide
<pleia2> really? I've been doing ISO testing for 2 years and I didn't "know" you are "supposed to use dd"?
<elfy> pleia2: I think the best thing is to write our own page - certainly more likely to be maintained
<pleia2> elfy: that would be a good start
<knome> or something under the QA team
<pleia2> we can push on QA team to fix their docs once we have something better
<pleia2> I'm kind of sick of working with the Ubuntu QA team tbh, like talking to a wall
<elfy> knome: I'd certainly be making it a https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/foo page
<knome> i go to the QA team wiki, and i don't even know where i can get instructions to start helping out.
<pleia2> I shouldn't say that, where's the #undo for meeting logs? :)
<knome> pleia2, no, that's your official statement now :P
<pleia2> hehe
<skellat> At least it isn't "ex cathedra"
<knome> pleia2, just threatening balloons directly usually works :P
<elfy> ha ha ha 
 * pleia2 too polite
<skellat> I thought I was the one called fairly hostile in a separate thread elsewhere.  Am I the designated attack dog or something?
<pleia2> anyway, yes, better docs for usb sticks
<elfy> skellat: I'm happy enough to work towards some sort of triage plan - but it will have to come after planning the test cycle
<skellat> elfy: Agreed
<elfy> I'm generally the blunt one - good to not be the only one :p
<knome> i guess i'm considered blunt as well
<knome> but at least i'm not the one spamming contributor lists full of borderline (and way out) discussions
<elfy> #action QA (in conjunction with others) to sort usb docs
<meetingology> ACTION: QA (in conjunction with others) to sort usb docs
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<knome> #action xubuntu-quality (in conjunction with others) to sort USB docs
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-quality (in conjunction with others) to sort USB docs
<elfy> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<knome> :D
<elfy> #action xubuntu-quality (in conjunction with others) to sort USB docs by beginning of V cycle
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-quality (in conjunction with others) to sort USB docs by beginning of V cycle
<knome> great
<slickymasterWork> lol
<elfy> there - no need to go on about that next meeting :)
<pleia2> thank you :)
<skellat> Victorious Velociraptor!
<pleia2> I sidetracked with my usb rant, was there other stuff on this topic?
<elfy> mmm
<knome> just that everybody in team should read it
<knome> and comment if they feel like it
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> i mean,
<skellat> pleia2: If we can't get USB booting to work, that damages testing greatly.  That's not a sidetrack at all.
<knome> if they have anything to comment
<elfy> #action xubuntu-team to read http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-qa-v-cycle and comment 
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to read http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-qa-v-cycle and comment
<knome> #nick xubuntu-team
<pleia2> skellat: could be I'm just stupid :)
<skellat> pleia2: No, I've seen those issues too
<pleia2> good
<elfy> so has more or less everyone this cycle
<skellat> And I use dd 
<knome> maybe you're both just stupid
<knome> ugh, can i take that off from the logs? ;P
<elfy> and then you get vbox issues if you're using that
<pleia2> I have real hardware, I feel my testing time is most valuable there, vbox is when I'm lazy 
<elfy> talking of which ... 
<elfy> if nothing happens between now and the 23rd we'll be stuck with 2 issues I know of
<skellat> Which are?
<elfy> the black background - which is us specific 
<elfy> and the tty1/tty7 issue in vbox which I think is *buntu wide
<skellat> Do we have bug numbers?
<elfy> bug 1378423 for the vbox one
<knome> no
<knome> :P
<ubottu> bug 1378423 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Virtualbox boots to black screen with daily" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1378423
<elfy> bug 1375893 for the background
<ubottu> bug 1375893 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Black background to Try/Install Dialogue" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1375893
<skellat> And neither with much traction in the bug reports
<skellat> elfy: Has there been anything from balloons level on those?
<elfy> skellat: balloons is more than aware of the vbox issue 
 * elfy has done nothing BUT find vbox issues this cycle ... 
<elfy> and ochosi has been trying to catch up with xnox re the other - if anyone else sees xnox try and grab him about it
<elfy> we've had the same thing before
 * pleia2 nods
<skellat> Have we had any lateral interaction with other flavors on the vbox bug?
<knome> next meeting?
<pleia2> I'm ready to move on if elfy is
<slickymasterWork>  it's up to elfy the next one
<elfy> skellat: I tried some of that in other cycles
<pleia2> and I shall test lots if I can get my usb sticks to behave!
<elfy> pleia2: yep - move on - it's just morped now
<pleia2> #topic Schedule next meeting
<elfy> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Team+Meeting&iso=20141021T20&ah=1
<knome> elfy is up next too
<elfy> then
<knome> in a week?
<knome> ok
<elfy> next Tuesday same time - 2 days before release
<skellat> ACK
<slickymasterWork> dito
<pleia2> meeting agenda: TEST ISOS YOU LAZY GITS
<elfy> knome: so if it's not next week - it's in VV ;)
<knome> :D
<knome> elfy, yep
<pleia2> thanks elfy :)
<knome> why can't i sync my calendar..
<pleia2> #action elfy to announce next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to announce next meeting
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 14 20:50:17 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-10-14-20.00.moin.txt
<knome> pleia2, he just did :P
<pleia2> on the mailing list!
<slickymasterWork> thanks pleia2 
<pleia2> and do the wiki things and stuff
<elfy> thanks pleia2 
<pleia2> I honestly have no idea where I'll be during that meeting
<elfy> neither have I
 * Unit193 got the calendar.
<skellat> I may have a LoCo Council meeting next Tuesday
<skellat> If there is business for us to transact, of course
<elfy> as long as you appear on the tracker skellat you can miss the meeting ;)
<pleia2> ooh, that's 4pm eastern, so I might be layovering in charlotte
<Unit193> Good time for me.
<Unit193> ...Not that it matters of course.
<elfy> of course it does :)
<elfy> you'll be in charge of QA stuff if I'm running the meeting :D
<pleia2> ++
<Unit193> Uh oh.
<elfy> I think the minutes are up right
<pleia2> no, I haven't done anything yet
<elfy> lol
<pleia2> haz work, willd o later
<elfy> I did :)
<elfy> pleia2: can forget about it :)
<pleia2> oh! thank you
<elfy> <- thoughtful sometimes 
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> Hey!  The wiki let me login in under 10 minutes. \o/
<elfy> yay
<elfy> take a picture :p
<elfy> cya tomorrow
<Unit193> pleia2: Debian #752178, debian #762841 fixed in unetbootin 608-1.
<ubottu> Debian bug 752178 in unetbootin "[unetbootin] The resulting usb pendrive looping with menu.c32 error" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/752178
<ubottu> Debian bug 762841 in unetbootin "unetbootin: The resulting usb pendrive looping with menu.c32 error" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/762841
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-15
<knome> pleia2, fwiw, i have no idea who he is.
<bluesabre> he's here to play that board game with you knome
<bluesabre> :)
<ObrienDave> channel checkers? ;P
 * ochosi just read up on the meeting logs
<ochosi> sorry i couldnt make it last night
<Unit193> Hmmm.  Last time I did an Xfce component update for myself and didn't ping ochosi/bluesabre, I got larted.  Don't see it as much help, but got git HEAD of xfce4-panel to take a quick look at the new hiding option: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce/+packages
 * bluesabre larts
<bluesabre> Hey Unit193 :)
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> oh, you have hamster in there too
<Unit193> Of course, though I think I pinged about that one.
<bluesabre> probably :)
<Unit193> (Not really that interested in it TBH, but wanted to see what it was and it came across xfce-users. :P )
<bluesabre> I've been meaning to package up rodent to take for a spin
<Unit193> So what exactly is that?
<bluesabre> the new (old?) file manager (I think)
<bluesabre> gtk3, so sounds interesting
<Unit193> Wasn't it talking about packagemanagement? 0_o
<bluesabre> er, package manager? not sure any more
<Unit193> "* Rodent-pkg plugin now supports apt-get, providing a consistent cross platform interface for package management (FreeBSD, RedHat, SUSE, Gentoo and Debian, so far). and Debian apt-get/dpkg"  and it talks about a xffm being the file manager? http://sourceforge.net/projects/xffm/files/5.3.14.1/
<elfy> sigh
<elfy> so I'm told that RC will be weekend earliest
<elfy> must be the weekend - why am I working
<elfy> and Final is now ready for testing ... 
 * ochosi is away from tomorrow until monday
<knome> silly olli_ 
<knome> ochosi too!
<knome> :)
<pleia2> ooh, a build notification
<elfy> yep - RC got blitzed - Final is up for testing - if you could do the honours with the social stuff I'd be in your debt :)
<pleia2> oh yes, sure
<elfy> so - am I the only one that sees this issue ? bug 574342
<ubottu> bug 574342 in gimp (Ubuntu) "GIMP set as default pdf viewer" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574342
<dkessel> elfy: no, can't confirm... and i even purged and reinstalled gimp. for me, evince stays the default
<elfy> thanks - I edited gimp out of mimeinfo.cache - works properly now
<elfy> dkessel: I assume that's in 14.10
<dkessel> elfy: yup
<elfy> k - just double checking :)
<pleia2> so, heard back from unixstickers, they have sold lots, so we really just need to tell them how many we want and go from there
<Unit193> elfy: Defaults have been rather messed up, jpgs being opened in firefox or gimp (ristritto installed), and then weirder from there.
<elfy> pdf was the one I kept seeing then forgetting until I dug a bit more today
<elfy> bit late now I guess - next month :p
<elfy> upgrade tests not there yet - might be the end of the week
<Unit193> Many Xfce uploads, most of them are running xdt-autogen  to update config.{guess,sub}.
 * bluesabre ordered my xubuntu pin from unixstickers today for OLF
<Unit193> Mmmm, OLF.
<knosys> GridCube: are you around?
<GridCube> i am
<knosys> slickymaster: do you know that link on the launchpad where i am able to choose to translate documents that are not in xubuntu docs?
<knosys> i cant find that section anymore
<Unit193> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<knosys> no those are the ubuntu docs
<knosys> sorry, xubuntu docs*
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-16
<chatr> Hi, I want to know  which package and which program/daemon gives the ability of automatically listing/mounting removable media in Xubuntu
<knosys> chatr rather than fstab or mount commands? with gui?
<chatr> Yes, exactly
<knosys> gparted i guess should work
<chatr> Actually, I'm using this feature in Xubuntu
<chatr> but I want to know how it works
<chatr> and when it doesn't work (elsewhere) why not
<knosys> wich? gparted or command-line and fstab file?
<chatr> In XFCE
<knosys> i never used gparted (maybe at installation of xubuntu if that was gparted)
<chatr> attached removable media can be seen
<chatr> and when you click on them
<chatr> they will be mounted easily
<knosys> yes it can be set up
<chatr> my search lead to this bug
<chatr> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9193
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9193 in General "Automount doesn't work." [Normal,New]
<knosys> oohh
<chatr> that discusses the automount feature
<chatr> I want to know more about it
<knosys> wait lets talk in xubuntu
<chatr> you mean #xubuntu
<chatr> ?
<knosys> yes , or there is np to talk here? im kind newbie in this channel 
<knosys> i would like to see your fstab file
<chatr> I have no problem to talk here
<chatr> I don't know it it's ok or not
<knosys> im not sure i can help you man im newbie
<knosys> but until someone else appear i can try if you want
<chatr> ok
<chatr> tnx
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-17
<knosys> do you know how to use the pastebin or paste.ubun?
<knosys> ubuntu?
<knosys> http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<knosys> put there your fstab so everyone that may help can see it
<knosys> also maybe fdisk -l command is usefull
<knosys> Oh i see its a known bug of a removable device
<knosys> in the link you provided, the comment 14 did not help?
<knosys> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9193#c14
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9193 in General "Automount doesn't work." [Normal,New]
<knosys> so looks there is no fix on that bug since 2012 i see
<knosys> sorry man i though it was something more basic :)
<chatr> tnx
<chatr> for your help
<chatr> I can use mount
<knosys> haha
<chatr> but I want to make it more simple
<chatr> because it is better to click on the icon that it appears automatically
<knosys> there may be some fixes around , like the comments in that same posts
<chatr> to do fdisk -l as root
<chatr> it seems that I should update to 4.12
<chatr> thanks for your help
<chatr> I'll be back
<knosys> he was talking about thunar? Oo
<zequence> Did you request this last respin, or did it happen automatically?
<elfy> hi zequence - it was automatic, I didn't request it and I can't imagine either bluesabre nor ochosi doing so without letting me know
<zequence> elfy: Alright. Seems like it's been going slowly though
<zequence> I had a look this morning, and not many flavors have been respun since
<elfy> not been watching tbh - I'm not that worried about them tbh, I'll probably do some hardware tests over the weekend and early next week if there are more respins
<Pwnna> did blueman-applet get deprecated?
<zequence> elfy: Ah, right. The rc is not really released until the official stable release date, as it's supposed to be the FINAL release. I seem to remember it used to be released like the Betas before, no?
<zequence> Anyway, no sweat then. 
<zequence> After all, we won't be promoting it much, as we intend to put the most effort on the LTS from now on.
<zequence> I'll try making some backports this time around.
<pleia2> so, what's up with the weather applet? :)
<Noskcaj> pleia2, The plugin? I sorta forgot about a patch i needed to add for 3 months
<Unit193> pleia2: In -proposed for trusty.
<pleia2> thanks <3
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-18
<bluesabre> elfy/forestpiskie : wasn't me that requested a respin
<Unit193> bluesabre: Pretty sure he'd stab you if you did. :D
<bluesabre> heh
<Pwnna> Is anyone experiencing this issue? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1382741
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1382741 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Some apps are displaying a very old styled theme as oppose to greybird" [Undecided,New]
<Pwnna> it looks like problem is with qt apps
<knome> so... final image testing
<knome> elfy, do we still have the two bugs?
<knome> ouch, apparently we do
<elfy> yep
<elfy> well - we have one
<knome> woot, we have a LOT of tests done
<knome> like, a lot...
<elfy> lots of flavours have one too
<knome> yep
<elfy> and frankly I can't really get myself worked up about either
<knome> have you tried the workaround that bluesabre recommended in the bug?
<elfy> yea - didn't work for me
<knome> as long as the virtualbox bug is in the release notes, people who run to it should be run to it
<knome> okay
<elfy> yea - release notes will do for the vb one for sure
<knome> can you drop that line in the bug comments as well
<knome> so others outside the team/elfy+bluesabre know that isn't working as well :)
<knome> (especially if we're seeking for help from xnox or so)
<elfy> and while the other doesn't look very nice - it's not the end of the world
<knome> yes
<knome> it's better to have a black background than a debian/ubuntu one
<knome> because that would be an obvious bug
<elfy> indeed :D
<knome> this one is just... really, a minorish one
<knome> though the bug importance should probably be something else than low
<knome> is it cheating if i mark it high?
<elfy> nope - I'd not call it cheating :p
<knome> i'm thiking medium is pretty much spot on, but i'm sure that doesn't help us get it fixed
<knome> ok, it's now high
<elfy> right - that's all the upgrade tests I'll be doing in hardware
<knome> mhm
<elfy> in fact that's all the testing I'll be doing until there's a respin or VV 
<knome> :)
<elfy> not sure who akxwi-dave is - but whoever it is does a LOT of testing for us
<knome> :)
<elfy> anyone else see torrent files default app as Archive Manager? 
<elfy> on right click of the torrent - properties shows transmission 
<bluesabre> elfy: it sounds like your mimetype associations have been seriously messed up lately
<elfy> bluesabre: yea - I am just not sure how or when it occurred - Unit193's seen similar issues
<elfy> I guess as long as it's not a general issue I'm not going to bother with bugs 
<bluesabre> I wonder if I should make a basic listener so we can see when these things happen
<bluesabre> choose what files to watch, send notification when they are modified
<elfy> well I'd love to have something like that - I get this screensaver change by the piskies when I'm not looking as well too :D
<bluesabre> I might crank that out while we wait for v to open up
<elfy> would be super useful I think for the likes of me running it for a whole cycle
<elfy> bluesabre: what's the shortcut to resize a window - someone with trackpad sensitivity issues and old hands - so the alt +right click + drag is
<elfy> nvm - alt+rightclick+drag is doing the job
<bluesabre> yeah, would love for somebody to hack the compositor to give a bigger grab region
<elfy> I'll do it when I learn how :p
<elfy> don't wait though ... 
<bluesabre> yay a sacrifice
<bluesabre> s/sacrifice/volunteer
<elfy> lol
<elfy> you do know that all coding is voodoo in my mind :)
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> compositors are a scary area for me
<elfy> ha ha 
<elfy> imagine how it is for me :D
<bluesabre> so, I thought they had fixed the vbox black screen issues at one point, or was that only lightdm not starting?
<elfy> bluesabre: noooooooooooooo - don't mention vbox :p
<bluesabre> haha
<elfy> it seems that one gets fixed and leads to another one :)
<bluesabre> I know a few weeks ago they were talking about importance, and said vbox wasn't as important as kvm... do many people actually use kvm/qemu/libvirt ?  I've always found the performance lacking
<elfy> I've no idea tbh
<bluesabre> ok
<elfy> I think that it's more likely that Joe the User will use vbox than kvm or qemu
<bluesabre> yeah
 * bluesabre continues image testing
<elfy> I've done what I can - create bugs with it - let the QA manager know - and kept letting him know 
<bluesabre> cool
<elfy> he's seen it - whether -release get their knickers in a twist over it who knows - but at least now it is just vt1 -> vt7 and it works - no starting or stopping services
<elfy> as knome says - as long as it's on our release notes if it's still there on Thursday - which I guess it will be
<elfy> talking of which
<elfy> !team 
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/FinalReleaseNotes for us
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> was going to start drafting a full changelog, might as well do it there
<elfy> cool
<elfy> release team job really - not seen the other third of us for a while now 
<brainwash_> bluesabre: will you fix the black background installer glitch? if the current method to set the background does not work anymore, then we should switch to something which actually works (feh or whatever)
<elfy> or not worry about it 
<bluesabre> it's a pretty minor issue, and very low chance that a fix I provide will land in time for release
<brainwash_> so, should we even mention it in the final release notes?
<elfy> yes
<bluesabre> its still an issue, regardless
<brainwash_> it does not break anything
<bluesabre> but not a critical issue
<bluesabre> also, nobody has been able to verify my workaround, so there's that
<brainwash_> it will obviously work with feh, or not?
<brainwash_> didn't ubiquity even utilize feh at one point?
<bluesabre> modifying the ubiquity code, and including feh worked for me
<bluesabre> but I think the issue is minor enough to leave be for now.  We can fix it for 15.04
<brainwash_> I think so too
<bluesabre> Instead, we should focus more effort on the image testing
<brainwash_> the black background even fits somehow, 14.10 is an "experimental" release after all
<brainwash_> oh... what about xfdesktop in trusty?
<brainwash_> sadly not yet uploaded to -proposed
<bluesabre> yeah, need to poke sru team again, they've been a bit unresponsive to my requests lately
<bluesabre> the growing number of menulibre-2.0.3 bugs are killing me
<chatr> hi
<chatr> what's the application that manages WIFI hotspot selection in Xubuntu?
<elfy> bluesabre: had another go with feh - worked 
<elfy> still though not that concerned if we release with black background - we could just say it's by design :p
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-19
<elfy> bluesabre: not just me bug 1382897
<ubottu> bug 1382897 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar open default not respecting the mime type editor nor its own setting on default open with" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382897
<Unit193> Weird, vbox booted fine, I didn't even do anything weird.
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> so I installed easytag - now mp3 etc want to open with that - looking in mimeinfo.cache - it's added easytag - at the beginning of the line
<elfy> Unit193: 32 or 64 bit - wxl was saying he didn't see it in 32bit
<Unit193> 32, it's what I had.
<elfy> might be a 64 bit only issue then 
<elfy> audio/x-mp3=easytag.desktop;parole.desktop;soundconverter.desktop;clementine.desktop;
<elfy> doesn't make any logical sense - not even in the order I installed things nor alphabetical
<elfy> pretty sure that slickymaster uses 32bit for testing 
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/wK9NXE9TF4UoYaiQczCh diff of the manifests.
<bluesabre> elfy/Unit193: It boots fine for me every now and then... 64bit
<Unit193> Thought systemd also fixed it.  Pretty sure I got the black bug too before, I think.
<bluesabre> also, with that bug above, sometimes things steal mimetypes.  Like installing wine, Notepad takes a lot of things over
<bluesabre> it might be a thunar bug that causes it... I wonder if we can recreate the issue outside of xfce
<elfy> I've asked people on the forum to look - likely most will be ubuntu
<elfy> bluesabre: up to a point installing something changes it - just illogically in mp3
<elfy> but torrent isn't in mimeinfo.cache - but wants to open with file roller
<bluesabre> weird
<elfy> and why would it want to open pdf with gimp - not installed anything extra in either of those 2 cases
<elfy> bluesabre: anyway - another cycle that one :p
<bluesabre> pdf is in gimp's .desktop file
<bluesabre> mp3 probably in easytag
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> and should be 
<bluesabre> rigth
<elfy> but why is it being put at the beginning of the line I guess is the issue 
<bluesabre> I'll see if there is some bad logic somewhere
<bluesabre> maybe not today though, got a tight schedule this morning, and then I got volunteered to help at an orchard today
<elfy> mmm - loads to eat then :D
<elfy> bluesabre: VV will do :)
<bluesabre> cool
<elfy> nothing about torrents in the archive manager desktop - I can't see the logic in this at all
<ali1234> speaking of mimetypes
<ali1234> is there a way to say "open all videos with mpv instead of parole"?
<ali1234> without having to change the setting for every file type?
<ali1234> and if not, why not?
<knome> ali1234, i guess nope, and no because nobody wrote an application that does that..
<elfy> xset piskies have been busy again here :(
<elfy> bluesabre: I reported that mimeinfo issue now -  bug 1382977
<ubottu> bug 1382977 in desktop-file-utils (Ubuntu) "Default open with wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382977
<brainwash> elfy: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11212 ?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11212 in general "Default application not respected with glib >= 2.41" [Critical,New]
<brainwash> I did not take a closer look yet, just remembered that I saw something similar upstream
<elfy> brainwash: looks like the kiddy 
<elfy> I'lla dd it for the time being at least 
<elfy> and changed it to Thuanr
<brainwash> I guess you could add https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=763726 also
<ubottu> Debian bug 763726 in thunar "thunar: trouble with file associations since glib2.0 upgrade to 2.42" [Normal,Open]
<brainwash> a candidate for the known issues list
<elfy> aaah 
<elfy> that mimeapps list is where torrent was associating with archive manager
<elfy> 2 out of 3 fixed :D
<elfy> not letting me add the debbug as well as bugzilla
<brainwash> I've added it
<elfy> ta
<brainwash> Also affects distribution/package > Debian GNU/Linux
<brainwash> :)
<elfy> yea saw :)
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1382897
<ubottu> bug 1382897 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar open default not respecting the mime type editor nor its own setting on default open with" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382897
<brainwash> it's a dupe I'd guess
<elfy> I saw that - then forgot when I was trying to get an idea of if it was mimeinfo and a bug with that
<elfy> tbh from experience if it's a debian issue I expect it will get fixed long after I've stopped caring
<brainwash> it's not debian specific
<brainwash> there is a patch attached to the Xfce upstream report, even tested by at least 2 users
<brainwash> bluesabre: ^
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11212
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11212 in general "Default application not respected with glib >= 2.41" [Critical,New]
<brainwash> SRU worthy I think
<Pwnna> yea
<Pwnna> it's pretty critical
<Pwnna> can we get this out before release?
<elfy> I'd say that's highly unlikely - we're talking about 3 days
<GridCube> elfy, i got a mail saying my membership to QA is expiring and to get in touch with you :)
<elfy> yep - ok - and are you going to do anything to help me during VV - if you are I'll do it now
<elfy> and hi :)
<GridCube> :) hi
<GridCube> elfy, If i can help i will, don't know if that means i need to be member of qa tho, probably not
<GridCube> I never understood how to use the tools you showed me last time, never knew what i should be doing
<GridCube> so i did nothing
<elfy> you don't need to be a member of QA to do testing etc - but I'm going to be wanting people in it to do things outside the norm
<GridCube> elfy, as said, if you ask me to do something i will try to do it
<elfy> ok - then I'll be asking you to do stuff then ;)
<GridCube> :) do so
<elfy> :)
<elfy> dkessel has joined -qa team 
<dkessel> Yay
<elfy> indeed :)
<Pwnna> can anyone confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1382888?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1382888 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfsettingsd crashes after disconnecting from screen and ac" [Undecided,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-12
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://plus.google.com/+WorldofGnomeOrg/posts/WmjGAEyi4Fo?pid=6204686090340725714&oid=112026213399155142823
<knome> bluesabre, which of the work items are we actually still expecting to fix this cycle?
<bluesabre> knome: marked the libreoffice item as postponed, the other is a bug report... we have fixed the issue in our configuration, but not the actual upstream issue
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/+bug/1462445
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1462445 in Clutter "Gtk applications start with blank screen (Clutter 1.22.4 and GtkClutter 1.6.2)" [High,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> which will probably not get fixed
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> ochosi: gvfs fix landed - not seen any recurrence of what I was seeing before at the moment
<drc> Quick Question:  Has any one used (on a daily, long term basis) XFS instead of EXT2 with Xubuntu?
<drc> ere EXT4
<flocculant> I can answer now then :p - not me ;)
<drc> A machine has XFS (from Salix)...think I try Xubuntu on it, shouldn't make a difference, but who really knows?
<drc> thanks
<drc> flocculant: Looks like whatever "they" did fixed the thunar/gvfs/copying crashes I was having.
<flocculant> good - that's the 2 of us who'd seen things not seeing them :)
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre are we going to change the current parole to the one in staging? 
<flocculant> there's a minor irritant in the default, lose menu bar - maximise - normal size has menubar again, fixed in staging
<Unit193> I'd seen tumblerd and thunar ones.
<flocculant> irritants? 
<Unit193> Crashes, can't remember the bug numbers but linked to them at one point.
<flocculant> oh right 
<flocculant> well thunar crashes are few here now - or none in point of fact
<flocculant> not seen a tumblerd one for quiet a while
<knome> quite? :P
<Unit193> The one is lp 1168558, no idea what for thunar.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1168558 in tumbler (Ubuntu) "tumblerd crashed with SIGSEGV in tumbler_thumbnailer_create()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168558
<flocculant> knome: nope - it's been quiet on that front :p
<knome> :P
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> hello ochosi 
<ochosi> flocculant: guess bluesabre would have to answer that...
<flocculant> ochosi: I thought so - but hate to not include you too :)
<ochosi> :)
<drc> flocculant: Just out of curiosity, at what point would it be good to delete that xubuntu-dev ppa to get back to a normal system, before or after a 15.10 upgrade?
<flocculant> nver thought about that tbh - I just add them and run with them :)
<Unit193> If those are both equal options, I'd say before upgrade.
<flocculant> yea
<knome> they are disabled on upgrade anyway
<flocculant> though by delete I'd ppa purge
<knome> not update though..
<Unit193> Exactly, flocculant.
<flocculant> drc: not sure if you know, but install ppa-purge then sudo ppa-purge ppa:whatever-ppa-you-added - that will sort the source.list and downgrade properly what needs it
<flocculant> which needs to be added to contribute/qa/ at some point if I remember 
<Unit193> For a bonus, could check for orphaned files or debsums afterwards.
<drc> flocculant: Yeah, I knew, was just imprecise in my wording...sorry
<flocculant> that's ok - just wanted to be sure :)
<flocculant> knome: ok so - if I've grabbed the xub docs then done all the build thing to that, how do I then push any changes back? 
<flocculant> cos - it's all changed now after the build :)
<knome> make clean
<knome> bzr commit
<knome> bzr push
<flocculant> ty :D
<knome> np
<bluesabre> flocculant: oh, seems there's been some fixes since the last stable parole
<bluesabre> we might get that for wily... :)
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> pitty we don't overlap so much lately, time-wise
<bluesabre> yeah, seems we've been endlessly busy/sleepy
<knome> pitti? :P
<Unit193> End of a cycle, so not much going on at this point.
<bluesabre> just lots of writing ideally
<bluesabre> working on release notes, motu app, etc over the next few days
<Unit193> \o/
<knome> nnniiiice
<ochosi> nice
<bluesabre> so much support
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> go bluesabre!
<ochosi> :]
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> fine, I'll go
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbabl
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> can any of you test something for me in wily?
<ochosi> my vbox just ran out of space :'( and it'll take a bit for me to fix that or set up a new one
<drc> go....(if I can I will)
<ochosi> it's a really tiny one, just patch greybird like here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/pull/107/files
<ochosi> then you need to install one of these apps: gnome-clocks, gnome-weather, gnome-sudoku (that one should be installed)
<drc> OK, how would I patch it when I don't have the greybird source?
<ochosi> i havent seen any of those CSD subtitles yet
<ochosi> greybird is plaintext ;) just edit /usr/share/themes/Greybird/gtk-3.0/gtk-widgets.css
<drc> I can do that.  wait...out.
 * ochosi waits...out.
 * drc forgot it was a binary :)
<drc> s/was/wasn't./
<drc> ok, patched and gnome-sudoku is installed...what now?
<ochosi> run it and show me a screener of it
<ochosi> basically we'd need a before/after comparison
<ochosi> so you can first show me a screener of what it is now, then run "sudo apt-get install greybird-gtk-theme--reinstall" to see the previous/wily state
<drc> huh, imagebin now requires a login, any other place you wat it put?
<Unit193> imgur.
<Unit193> xfce4-screenshooter supports it even.
<knome> or email..
<Unit193> dcc, ochosi likes the dcc.
<knome> likes, but what he really LOVES is telnet
<drc> https://i.imgur.com/XH7yCjo.png
<Unit193> In fact, just paste the base64 here! :P
<knome> here === /q Unit193 
<Unit193> Erm, I'll go back to that rock I was hiding under.
<drc> ochosi: I noticed that the screen was overlapped, you need another one?
<ochosi> that looks weird
<ochosi> anyway, there's no subtitle in the CSD, so this didnt help unfortunately..
<knome> well it's greybird-DRC
<ochosi> drc: if you can, please install gnome-weather or gnome-clocks to see if they have subtitles
<drc> Hey, I resemble that remark!
<drc> sure
<drc> ochosi: https://i.imgur.com/XiZxZkO.png
<ochosi> sorry, i have no idea why that looks so messed up
<ochosi> what did you do to our lovely theme..?
<drc> muhahaha!
 * ochosi fears he'll have trouble sleeping
<ochosi> anyway, thanks for trying
<drc> I turn off compositor, could that be it?
<ochosi> nah, the dark background in the window title bar is what's bothering me
<drc> The only other thing I can think off is an nvidia driver.
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> i guess in that case dont worry, i'll figure it out when i figure it out ;)
<drc> Sleep tight :)
<ochosi> and you go and reinstall greybird to get rid of that hideous hideous "thing"
<ochosi> thanks, night everyone
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<drc> Actually, as knome saw, I copied it to ~/themes and just went back to the normal greybird
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-13
<bluesabre> ochosi, as I recall, gtk3 themes don't read correctly from ~/.themes
<drc> flocculant: Ping...thunar crash, same as before (SIGSEGV in thunar_file_compare_by name) :(
<Unit193> Awwwh. :(
<bluesabre> there we go, I wrote a thing https://smdavis.us/2015/10/12/xfce-panel-switch-introduction/ :)
<bluesabre> bed time, night all
<slickymaster> flocculant, I'll ping tomorrow morning about our email exchange
<slickymaster> tbh, I'm still not completely sure I totally get what you meant 
<flocculant> don't worry now :)
<flocculant> at chapter 10 now btw
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> I'm guessing that you'll drop by, sometime during the morning, right?
<flocculant> be later in the day 
<flocculant> not intending to push this till after 15.10 releases anyway - this wasn't for now but for 16.04 
<slickymaster> no problem, if it's before 17:00
<slickymaster> in our timezone
<flocculant> I'm just getting ahead because I anticipate being busier next cycle than this one 
<slickymaster> :)
<slickymaster> well, it's the early bird
<flocculant> and I said I would look at the whole docs thing for 16.04 
<slickymaster> yeaps, 
<ochosi> works quite well, the gtk3 port of xfce4-notifyd
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<bluesabre> is that nice and themeable?
<ochosi> oh hey there
<ochosi> it is
<ochosi> the default themes have been ported
<ochosi> the labels are centered, but other than that it's 1:1
<ochosi> so we have a lot of theming freedom now
<bluesabre> sweet
<ochosi> the only thing it still doesn't do is draw a shadow
<bluesabre> and the themes are all css now?
<ochosi> i wonder whether i could hack that in with css though
<ochosi> yeah
<bluesabre> very nice
<ochosi> ali must've ported it all in one day
<ochosi> but we should really let some indent-bot go over his code, if you know what i mean ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> just open it with my current geany config, change all the lines
<ochosi> yeah, that would be nice, if you could just do that for all the files he touched :D
<ochosi> anyway, the most important fact is that it works and that it's done
<ochosi> and since it's "just an app" it can be released anytime
<ochosi> i'll prepare greybird so it supports it on day 1
<bluesabre> very nice
<ochosi> nice blog posts btw
<bluesabre> thanks
<ochosi> you should really do the xubuntu release notes in this style (i know it's a lot of work though)
<bluesabre> got one or two more today/tomorrow
<bluesabre> and a whats new in 15.10 on thursday
<bluesabre> busy busy
<ochosi> cool
<bluesabre> ideally once I'm done, we'll have lots of screenshots for release notes
<ochosi> yeah, that sounds lovely
<ochosi> bluesabre: what was your opinion on the time-setting dialog for xfce4-settings btw?
<bluesabre> ochosi: hm?
<bluesabre> we do need one
<bluesabre> and proper user management
<ochosi> didn't you get the "memo"? :)
<ochosi> there was an email on the xfce4-dev ml from someone who created a time-setting app
<ochosi> well "created"
 * bluesabre is awful at reading MLs
<ochosi> more: forked from gnome2
<ochosi> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2015-October/031495.html
<bluesabre> if forked means without gnome dependencies, thats a good starting point
<bluesabre> I think it'd be a nice addition
<ochosi> yeah, it's integrated in xfce4-settings, so there shouldn't be any depends
<ochosi> i guess nick's original point was whether you need the map
<ochosi> for something you run only once or twice
<ochosi> have to say i sort of agree with him there
<ochosi> if the map were re-used in other places somehow, i'd say alright that's nice
<bluesabre> yeah... but sucks to drop to config file editing or installing gnome-* to change your clock
<bluesabre> kind of like using mugshot to set your name
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> usermod!
<bluesabre> D:
 * bluesabre googles/mans everytime he has to create a new group or add a user
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i guess we should start by testing that branch
<Unit193> Hardest part is going "Now is that bloody tool useradd, or adduser?!" >_<
<Unit193> adduser unit193 sudo  is pretty easy to add a group.
<bluesabre> "or is it some systemctl command now?"
 * bluesabre did not know about adduser
<bluesabre> :'(
<Unit193> adduser bluesabre   and then it'll simply ask a few questions.
<ochosi> anyway, night all!
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you get around to trying the branch linked in the email lemme know
<bluesabre> ochosi: will try to take it for a spin soon
<ochosi> i'd be curious to know how well it works and whether it's "worth it"
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-14
<Noskcaj> Hey everyone. I've got a new laptop, so i can start doing stuff again. downside is i'm now in year 12 so i have to focus more on school. Have i missed anything major?
<bluesabre> Hey Noskcaj, welcome back
<bluesabre> The biggest thing right now is going to be testing and reporting/fixing bugs
<knome> yep, final freeze tomorrow
<flocculant> we can hope so :p
<Noskcaj> The installer's popup to overwrite windows 8's UEFI talks about debian not ubuntu. If someone can reproduce it that would be great, since i'd prefer to not nuke my new setup
<flocculant> hi Noskcaj - belated welcome back :)
<Noskcaj> hey :)
<flocculant> I can't - I'd just report it manually 
<Noskcaj> oh crap, no one fixed redshift
<flocculant> is it broken then
 * flocculant wouldn't know nor worry either :)
<drc> General Relativity is broken?
<flocculant> yep
<drc> darn, better inform Einstein. :)
<Noskcaj> If i open multiple xfce4-terminal's they all come up on top of each other, rather than at different points on the screen. Is this a regression (didn't happen at the start of the cycle) or my laptop?
<flocculant> been like that as long as I remember 
<Noskcaj> ok, must have been something i accidently made work
<flocculant> nope 
<flocculant> just booted vivid image - that opens them in multiple positions
<flocculant> so you're not going mad 
<drc> The only time I've ever seen them open in the same place is if one sets tweaks->Center of Screen.
<flocculant> drc: yep - but you can't seemingly turn that off 
<drc> sure you can...set Minimum Size to small...or are we talking over each other?
<flocculant> didn't know that ... 
<flocculant> settings editor - shows placement_mode as center
<flocculant> silly me - thought the lock column was on or off :D
<flocculant> ignore that 
<flocculant> and yes drc - that does at least work around it - though why it affects terminal in that way suddenly 
<Noskcaj> Where do i find possible value's for the setting?
<flocculant> I just set placement to small in tweaks like drc said 
<Noskcaj> ok, that fixed it
<flocculant> Unit193 or ochosi or bluesabre would possibly be the best to ask when or why probably
<drc> flocculant: It's been that way as long as I remember...say, about 5 minutes :)
<flocculant> hah
<flocculant> funny that :p
<drc> I know it was in 4.10
<flocculant> was like what? over the top of each other? 
<flocculant> cos it's not like it in vivid default
<drc> Never mind...I think we were slightly talking past each other (i.e., talking about different things)
<flocculant> entirely possible :)
<flocculant> mmk 
<flocculant> so in wily livesession it doesn't do this 
<drc> I trust the Live Session about as far as I can throw the Isle of Man.
<flocculant> lol
<Unit193> http://sigma.unit193.net/comix.html#explosm
<Unit193> ....Uhh.
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2015-October/038924.html
<knome> almots
<knome> almost too
<knome> ...
<Unit193> I selected the link and copied it, some reason it didn't copy. >_<
<knome> yyeeeep.
<ochosi> Noskcaj, flocculant: what setting where and why again? :)
<Unit193> Amusingly, the link I posted doesn't include Xubuntu. :P
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy, bluesabre.
<bluesabre> heya Unit193 
<knome> heya seany
<knome> ...and unity
<bluesabre> hiya knoomy
<knome> loomy boomy
<bluesabre> doomy zoomy
<knome> :D
<knome> haha
<knome> fed up
<bluesabre> knome: why?
<knome> i referred to kryty leaving
<knome> got fed up to our discussion
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> he'll be back
<bluesabre> one day
<bluesabre> 2018
<knome> maybe
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-15
<flocculant> ochosi: open a terminal - open another - and another - they all open on top of each other
<bluesabre> flocculant, knome: in case we're doing any notes for the RC, updated app versions between vivid and wily, http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu15-10rc
<Unit193> Up late, you are.
<bluesabre> night all
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: working on release notes blog post stuff and watching Colbert
<Unit193> Nice!
<bluesabre> but yeah, bed time :D
<bluesabre> nighty
<flocculant> bluesabre: they're likely freezing today and then spinning the images tomorrow
<flocculant> so - no RC notes :p but gives us a week to do the Final ones \o/
<flocculant> I'll use that pad to build the wiki notes 
<bluesabre> flocculant: cool
<flocculant> bluesabre: hey :) 
<flocculant> don't forget the meeting you're running tomorrow ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: good idea
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> I'll likely be about for both 
<bluesabre> flocculant: cool
<flocculant> bluesabre: did you catch my comment a few days ago re parole in ppa and parole in livesession - if not will be getting the parole one for wily? fixes an irritant 
<bluesabre> flocculant: if you're comfortable with what's in the PPA, I can quickly do a release of 0.8.1 and upload it
<flocculant> I've not seen anything to question that 
<bluesabre> alrighty then
<flocculant> thanks :)
<bluesabre> wowza, got quite a few translations in there as well
<flocculant> I assume that's good then :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: do you see any point in adding changelogs to the wiki release notes - given that's supposed to be the technical one 
<bluesabre> flocculant: we could, but we should consider which things we want to be verbose about
<flocculant> ok - well how about I spend 30 minutes trudging through - then you remove what you want 
<flocculant> I'd rather get that done while I've got some time than next week ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: makes sense to me
<flocculant> ok - I'll do that *now* then 
<bluesabre> I've got a few release notes as blog posts on my site for catfish, menulibre, mugshot, xfpanel-switch, https://smdavis.us/
<flocculant> yep - I was going to use your ones where available - otherwise just the http://changelogs.ubuntu.com one
<flocculant> actually what I'll do is move ones with your posts to 'major' and the ones with the ubuntu one lower
<bluesabre> sounds good to me
<sidi_> What's the ML for Xubuntu users?
<flocculant> xubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
<flocculant> bluesabre: middle click on the pad has driven me insane ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/flocculant/sandbox 
<flocculant> sidi_: ^^^
<sidi_> flocculant, thanks!
<bluesabre> yay, release manager didn't crash when doing an xfce release
<flocculant> :)
<davmor2> fluke
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - so a good start made on those notes now - time for lunch :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: when you say - New hidden setting to persistently hide the menubar - do you mean hidden until parole is started again? 
<flocculant> hope so - or I'll be the bearer of bad news again ... 
<bluesabre> flocculant: ochosi wrote it... :D
<flocculant> ochosi: ^^ ;)
<flocculant> unless the hidden setting is hidden somewhere ofc - in which case that's working well :p
<bluesabre> anyway, once I can confirm this build I'll go ahead and upload
<bluesabre> flocculant: I think its an option from settings editor
<bluesabre> hide-menubar (bool)
<bluesabre> just hiding the menubar is per session, the setting makes it permanent
<flocculant> mmm - can't see that 
<flocculant> at least not in settings - parole
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/Pl1xNNA.png
<flocculant> mind you - if this is one of those - it won't change existing files but is good in new installs - then I wouldn't 
<bluesabre> yeah, its hidden, has to be added
<flocculant> ok - so we'll document that somewhere I assume
<bluesabre> I can dig around later and let you know what the key is
<flocculant> faq page gets a little bit bigger :p
<bluesabre> yeah, will add it to the parole docs
<flocculant> bluesabre: I don't use it - but drc might like to know it :)
<bluesabre> Uploading to Ubuntu
<flocculant> what a lovely chap you are 
<bluesabre> flocculant: Upload, waiting for approval... might want to keep an eye on -release in case there are any questions that need an ack
<flocculant> yep will do :)
<flocculant> back shortly - need some lunch and will get the chippy to supply it today :)
<bluesabre> need to run to work now, bbl
<flocculant> cya 
<flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1501454
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1501454 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501454). The error has been logged
<flocculant> mmm - so we're getting these thunar bugs lately - just got it here
<flocculant> bunch of dupes of a private one
<ochosi> flocculant: don't worry about the menubar setting, it's false by default and has to be added via xfconf-query or the xfce4-settings-editor
<ochosi> so those ppl who do that know where to change the setting back ;)
<ochosi> and yeah, i guess i can confirm the terminal issue you mentioned
<flocculant> ochosi: yep - got the control added here 
<flocculant> trying to get parole updated currently :)
<flocculant> bluesabre did his bit earlier today 
<ochosi> it's really just a slightly geeky hidden setting for those who want to replace mplayer with parole ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> well - as much as we can get in now in wily - makes xx simpler as a fix all we can thing I guess 
<flocculant> and of course once I know about something - it annoys me if I've not got it :D
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> sure
<flocculant> knome: ok - so then that didn't help - what it did was lose all the changes I'd made ... 
<knome> flocculant, wut?
<flocculant> <flocculant> knome: ok so - if I've grabbed the xub docs then done all the build thing to that, how do I then push any changes back? 
<flocculant> <flocculant> cos - it's all changed now after the build :)
<flocculant> <knome> make clean
<flocculant> so that just blitzed all the changes I'd made ;)
<knome> nope, it should just rm the build dir
<knome> ...which isn't where you should do changes if you did that :P
<flocculant> well given the dearth of information on docs - where should I have changed them 
<knome> heh, docs on docs
<knome> under desktop-guide/C/*
<knome> which is where the docbook files are located at
<knome> (yeah, no html editing here, it's just the output format!)
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> not what I see here 
<knome> hmm?
<knome> what do you see then? :D
<flocculant> xml 
<knome> yeah
<knome> that's what you *SHOULD* see
<knome> as i said, html is just the output format
<knome> we don't edit the docs in html
<knome> ...
<flocculant> well I did 
<knome> hah, well
<knome> that's not the usual procedure
<knome> and the answer for how do you get the stuff you edited from html to the docs... manually
<flocculant> well it might not be - perhaps you could point me to where it says what to do then 
<knome> or in other words, "you don't"
 * knome looks if we have exact enough docs for docs
<flocculant> where? 
<knome> website or wiki
<knome> i can't remember what we say
<flocculant> we say nothing 
<flocculant> just point to hundreds of links
<knome> possible
<knome> yep, true
<knome> but for some kind of defense, the build dir doesn't exist until you build :)
<flocculant> and then you find the ubuntu doc wiki pages and it's just 'how did a doc team make things so hard to find' when you get there :|
<knome> lol
<knome> the ubuntu doc wiki pages are awful, i admit
<knome> we should sign off from all of that and write our own
<knome> ^ no kidding, i'm totally serious
<flocculant> anyway - when I can be bothered to do all this again - desktop-guide/C/
<knome> (even if i have no pants on currently...)
<flocculant> yea - I would agree with that 
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> and yes, desktop-guide/C/
<flocculant> I did say to slickymaster the other day that there should be a simple how to start thing (bzr, packages you need) thing
<flocculant> ok 
<knome> yep
<knome> slickymaster, you around today?
<flocculant> on the other hand - I did edit the html for it all properly - at least it all looked correct :D
<knome> :E
<knome> good job
<knome> though... docbook is a different beast
<knome> well for the best - it's very similar
<ochosi> Unit193: woot, 1.1.15 uploaded to ubuntu too?
<knome> "only" different tags
<flocculant> right 
<knome> you'll get the gist of it quickly
<flocculant> on the positive side - it's going to be easier to do offline-packages in xml than html ... 
<knome> likely so..
<Unit193> ochosi: No, in http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-multimedia/gmusicbrowser.git
<knome> the html output from our docs is a bit dirty :P
<ochosi> Unit193: oh ok, i guess it's too late for wily anyway
<ochosi> hmm, almost done with xfce4-notifyd gtk3 support in greybird...
<flocculant> knome: and the front page? xubuntu-docs/startpage/xubuntu-index-start.htx ?
<knome> flocculant, yep, and -end-
<flocculant> yep - just checking the path ;)
<knome> but i'll likely try to push the startpage under the desktop-guide too
<knome> so only docbook after that
<knome> bbiab, sauna
<knome> flocculant, this should now be a tad more useful: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/documentation/
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> quick question knome - how to ,strong> or <em> in docbook? 
<knome> uhm
<knome> good one
<knome> depends on the situation
<knome> docbook has very semantic tags
<flocculant> words withiin a sentence
<flocculant> spelt properly though 
<knome> yeaah, but what are those words for?
<knome> we don't do "just emphasis" i think
<flocculant> yea we do 
<knome> where?
<flocculant> like <literal>monkey</literal>
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> so I found out :)
<knome> so as you can see
<knome> if it's something that's literally like that in the screen, then use <literal>
<flocculant> so <literallybold> 
<knome> if it's an application name, use <application>
<flocculant> :p
<knome> if it's a gui label, use <guilabel>
<knome> or if it's a thing the user needs to input, then you should use <userinput>
<flocculant> empasis 
<knome> these things might look similar in the output, but if we decide that we want to change the looks later for a certain thing, we'd better use semantic tags now :P
<flocculant> right
<knome> but don't be too hard on yourself on getting everything right the first time
<knome> we'll have to review it anyway :P
<flocculant> yea of course 
<knome> but again, for the better part -
<knome> there are examples of pretty much everything you can imagine
<knome> so just find another spot on the docs that does what you want, and see what the source says there
<knome> and you can't go too much wrong
<flocculant> yep - that's what I just did 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> not doing anymore of it twice today though :D
<knome> and for the &entities;, check desktop-guide/libs/xubuntu.ent
<knome> we're keeping for example all urls there
<knome> and just using the entity in the <ulink> tag
<knome> menu paths too
<knome> you'll see they can be daunting
<knome> ok, back to sauna one more time
<knome> bbiab again
<flocculant> k - thanks, that's all helpful 
<knome> np
<knome> aaaahhh
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: any word on parole upload?
<bluesabre> getting ready to run out again
<flocculant> bluesabre: I asked in -release earlier - nothing so far, I think infinity is on odd hours :)
<bluesabre> I saw doko ask if there was an ffe in -devel, didn't know if somebody determined that it really wasnt a new feature
<bluesabre> I'll try to ping again myself when I get back
<flocculant> ok
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-16
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: I'm happy enough to push it when it's done :)
<knome> flocculant, you can't push to the main branch, but you can totally do a MP
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll review it then
<flocculant> that's obviously what I mean knome ;)
<knome> or me, whoever has the time first
<knome> flocculant, ;)
<flocculant> there won't be many without changes 
<flocculant> all the additions though don't come close to the cleaning up of #10 :D
<knome> lol
<knome> slickymasterWork, there was little chance you noticed, but i updated http://xubuntu.org/contribute/documentation/ yesterday
<flocculant> useful addition ... 
<flocculant> ;)
<knome> slickymasterWork, if you want to look at the changes done, you can see them by comparing the revisions on the admin side
<slickymasterWork> I hadn't knome, last night I went straight to bed
<slickymasterWork> thanks for the heads up
<knome> yeah, one of the additions was to mention where the docbook files are in the branch
 * slickymasterWork checks
<knome> np
<knome> it's not a huge change
<knome> only in the bulleted list under documentation and the following two paragraphs
<flocculant> knome: it is a huge change - just not a long one :p
<knome> flocculant, hah
<knome> guess we could on talking about how to build stuff etc
<knome> but meh.
<knome> i'd want the xubuntu-specific wiki
<knome> where we could dump all the developer documentation
<flocculant> well yes 
<flocculant> same for QA too - but atm we have what we have
<knome> with explanations ad nauseam
<knome> yep
<flocculant> in the meantime slickymasterWork has one suggestion from me for the doc page 
<slickymasterWork> btw knome, I writing (better, I'll write) a tutorial on how to build the -docs locally for the FAQ section
<slickymasterWork> s/I writing/I'm writing
<flocculant> with the packages one needs
<knome> slickymasterWork, sorry to spoil your fun, but likely not FAQ material
<knome> as an article for the website, sure
<slickymasterWork> you think?
<knome> flocculant, sudo apt-get build-dep package
<slickymasterWork> that will be buried in the web, after a while 
<knome> slickymasterWork, yeah, FAQ's are totally oriented at end-user questions
<flocculant> even that 
<knome> slickymasterWork, now that we sort out the releases under the "release" taxonomy, we have much more flexibility with the categories/tags
<flocculant> but try and think about people who don't know - we ask people to get involved then assume they know what *we* know
<knome> slickymasterWork, we could create a new category for tutorials to getting involved
<knome> flocculant, i'm not saying we shouldn't do the article - we totally should
<knome> just that the FAQ category isn't the place for it
<slickymasterWork> my point is just to try and keep such an article sort of afloat (if you know what I mean)
<flocculant> knome: that might be useful - much of the new QA page could be a tutorial type thing - especially now :D
<knome> maybe we should write some guidelines with pleia2 about the marketing/communication :P
<knome> flocculant, yep, i can see that :)
<flocculant> :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, totally; and we do have ways to achieve that
<slickymasterWork> right
<knome> just let's not mix up the end-user faced documentation and developer documentation
<knome> that will mean nobody is willing to dig in the FAQ because they don't know what to expect
<flocculant> s/developer/technical
<knome> flocculant, mm
<knome> i should get some updates for the website landed, then i could take yet another step for a better website
<knome> sigh
<knome> :)
<flocculant> if you make it developer then QA will stay where it is :) 
<knome> flocculant, mm, "contributor" would be better word anyway
<slickymasterWork> on the contrary knome, my idea is that users will dig into the FAQs in expectation of finding what they're looking for
<knome> slickymasterWork, all of the FAQ articles currently are end-user stuff
<knome> and whenever we link there, we mention that
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/category/faq/
<knome> ^
<knome> say, in that page
<knome> if there was a category named "Contributing to Xubuntu" or sth in the sidebar
<knome> would you be at loss because the FAQ list didn't include articles about contributing to xubuntu?
<slickymasterWork> I do get your point knome, and agree with it
<knome> also, currently we don't link to the faq category from the front page
<knome> but with the new updates i've prepared, we could do that more easily too
<flocculant> faq is at least at the foot 
<slickymasterWork> I don't argue with it, my questions is just related to visibility 
<knome> flocculant, can get the contribution stuff there as well
<knome> flocculant, no problem, just add it to the menu
<knome> (and it IS under "help & support", eg. not something i'd look for if i was looking to contribute)
<flocculant> this new contribute section is probably a winner
<knome> mhm
<knome> http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/
<knome> that's how i've planned the menu
<knome> in the future
<knome> anyway
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> cya
<slickymasterWork> hf knome 
<bluesabre> flocculant: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/wily-changes/2015-October/012076.html
<bluesabre> also, I think I have a meeting starting in 2 minutes here, don't I
<bluesabre> !team | meeting time if anybody is around
<ubottu> meeting time if anybody is around: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
 * bluesabre tries to wake up, makes quick breakfast
<jjfrv8> me too
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Oct 16 10:32:40 2015 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> I'll wait a bit for people to show up
<bluesabre> It was an accident I even managed to wake up before the meeting today (shame on me)
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: are you the only other one besides me?
<bluesabre> may be a very short meeting :)
<krytarik> I'm here too. :P
<bluesabre> hi krytarik 
<krytarik> Hi bluesabre.
<bluesabre> Let's get started then :)
<bluesabre> #topic Open Action Items
<bluesabre> - knome to send a mail to the mailing list about phasing out "Team updates" in the meetings
<bluesabre> I'm... not sure if that went out
<bluesabre> anybody else better at searching their inboxes?
<krytarik> bluesabre: You mean for voting? Nope.
<bluesabre> Thought so.
<flocculant> hi 
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<krytarik> Hi flocculant.
<slickymasterWork> o/
<bluesabre> #action knome to send a mail to the mailing list about phasing out "Team updates" in the meetings
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to send a mail to the mailing list about phasing out "Team updates" in the meetings
<bluesabre> hi slickymasterWork 
<bluesabre> the party is getting started now
<bluesabre> moving on
<bluesabre> #topic Team Updates
<bluesabre> :D
 * flocculant has to try and remember the show tonight ... 
<flocculant> #info QA - call for RC testing went out yesterday
<flocculant> done ... 
<bluesabre> #info Final Freeze is now in effect
<bluesabre> #info parole 0.8.1 accepted for wily
<bluesabre> (woohoo!)
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> #info Our libreoffice-elementary-theme is now upstream in LibreOffice
<bluesabre> (in trunk)
<bluesabre> Will probably take some conversations with the LO packaging theme to get it building with X
<bluesabre> not sure I have anything else from dev/artwork
<krytarik> * team
<krytarik> :P
<bluesabre> anybody else want to add any updates they can think of?
<flocculant> bluesabre: just fyi - upgraded parole from -proposed - all works :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: oh goodie
<bluesabre> that was a very last minute release/upload... counting on you ;)
<bluesabre> #info the numbers on the tracker look excellent, good work everyone http://tracker.xubuntu.org/
<bluesabre> and with nothing else, we can move on...
<bluesabre> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> here we have: Last minute Wily issues for discussion, Core ISO/ CD:DVD, 15.10 RC and testing, 16.04 Milestones, 16.04 Package testing, Bug tagging
<flocculant> #subtopics even :p
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> #subtopic Last minute Wily issues for discussion
<flocculant> the only things I've got for this will come up shortly
<bluesabre> flocculant has our current known issues at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/flocculant/sandbox
<flocculant> but in general everything seems to be looking good from my perspective other than the vm issues that everyone sees 
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> and the gmb issue I never managed to resolve...
<flocculant> right - good reason to ditch it for xx and forget all about it :D
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> But yeah, I think we're in good shape for release... let's see what updates land during the final freeze that might change our minds
<flocculant> I guess we could add the v cycle spec for media players for x cycle 
<flocculant> oh wrong - for w cycle :)
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> so if nobody has any issues to discuss, we can start the next subtopic
<flocculant> wfm
<bluesabre> #subtopic Core ISO/ CD:DVD
<flocculant> hopefully Unit193 will be about for the next meeting to add to this 
<bluesabre> yes
<krytarik> There is nothing more to add though.
<bluesabre> I think things are in place now... and we want to get these isos spinning when X starts
<flocculant> krytarik: there is 
<flocculant> even if it's just getting where we are written - people do read the minutes and without us telling people things - they've no idea
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep and as early in the cycle as possible - we as a team need to be more on top of where that is during the cycle I guess
<bluesabre> maybe this will be in Team updates for next meeting :)
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> next up...
<bluesabre> #subtopic 15.10 RC and testing
<bluesabre> now who wrote that there... hmmm
<flocculant> ok - so obviously - as many people as can do so - test please - images and upgrades too :)
<bluesabre> #info that
<flocculant> the dev list got their ping - as soon as images are available I will update 
<flocculant> #info Please test RC images and upgrades in good time
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> action flocculant once tracker is up to date to mail user list re RC 
<flocculant> #action flocculant once tracker is up to date to mail user list re RC 
<meetingology> ACTION: flocculant once tracker is up to date to mail user list re RC
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> anything else?
<flocculant> mail from infinity today gives more detail on when "We will shut down cronjobs and spin some RC images late Friday or early
<flocculant> Saturday once the archive and proposed-migration have settled a bit ..."
<bluesabre> oh nice
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2015-October/003403.html
<bluesabre> uploads are still going strong
<flocculant> nothing else :)
<bluesabre> #subtopic 16.04 Milestones
<flocculant> oh lord - me again :p
 * bluesabre is happy flocculant is around
<flocculant> I'd like us to decide which we participate as early as possible 
<bluesabre> I agree
<flocculant> personally I would like to see us start with the second Alpha for 16.04
<bluesabre> I'd agree with that, Alpha 1 is almost always too early, landing before all the breaking changes
<flocculant> yep
 * slickymasterWork agrees with both bluesabre and flocculant 
<flocculant> I do have one more point re milestones - but will wait for others to speak up 
<bluesabre> From a development perspective, we're targeting bug fixes to make 16.04 super stable.  Don't expect a lot of new features, so testing done at all parts of the cycle will be incredibly relevant
<flocculant> make that an #info :p
<bluesabre> #info From a development perspective, we're targeting bug fixes to make 16.04 super stable.  Don't expect a lot of new features, so testing done at all parts of the cycle will be incredibly relevant
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> and I'll have a similar message with the next sub
<flocculant> krytarik: any input on that? 
<krytarik> flocculant: Sure, I agree.
<krytarik> Alpha 1, that is.
<krytarik> Woop, nope 2.
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> then we can move on to the next subtopic, yes?
<flocculant> ok - second point then - there is talk (not sure if it'll get further) of allowing flavours to stop builds
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that could be nice
<flocculant> so if that does happen - we can revisit milestones - and do our own when it suits us 
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> good to know
<flocculant> we can move on now - just wanted to bring that up :)
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> #subtopic 16.04 Package Testing
<flocculant> this will be coming back
<slickymasterWork> and dully needed
<flocculant> bluesabre and I will be setting this up for 16.04 - but it will be a bit more specific than it has in the past 
<bluesabre> yup
<flocculant> #info Package Testing coming back for 16.04
<flocculant> there's a fair bit of work to do for that, but it's been started already
<flocculant> bluesabre: nothing more from me on that - yet :)
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> so your perspective please - mostly for those attending tonight :)
<bluesabre> #info Usability bug reports are fair game. These changes really make Xfce and Xubuntu easier to use for lots of people. If things don't seem quite right with an application, let us know.
 * bluesabre will regret that
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> and ppa's people - use those :)
<bluesabre> #info Since we're targeting bug fixes and not so much new features with the next cycle, we can likely expect rapid reviews and fixes. More on this in future discussions.
<bluesabre> ok, I'm done
<flocculant> thanks
<bluesabre> #subtopic Bug Tagging
<flocculant> and this is easy :)
<bluesabre> duck duck goose-exp
<flocculant> #info please remember to mark bugs with xubuntu-exp and the version, if using a ppa xubuntu-exp version ppa
<flocculant> done :)
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> that covers everything
<flocculant> \o/ 
<bluesabre> #topic Schedule Next Meeting
<flocculant> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Team+Meeting&iso=20151016T20&p1=%3A&ah=1&am=30
<flocculant> done :D
<bluesabre> #info Please join us at later today at 20:00 UTC for Meeting #2
<flocculant> I'll get the meeting page updated so that those joining later can check that out first 
<bluesabre> #info https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Team+Meeting&iso=20151016T20&p1=%3A&ah=1&am=30
<bluesabre> cool, thanks
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Oct 16 11:16:49 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-10-16-10.32.moin.txt
<bluesabre> Thanks everyone!
<slickymasterWork> thanks bluesabre 
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - you can pretend to go back to bed now :)
<bluesabre> s/back to bed/to work
<flocculant> :D
<bluesabre> bbl folks, hf!
<flocculant> ok - logs are up now 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork knome - pushed my docs mp now 
<flocculant> what's that other one then ... 
<knome> :D
<flocculant> that's like ages old :)
<flocculant> knome: fyi - just added ppa-purge to the qa page 
<knome> mhm
<knome> again, bbl
<flocculant> :)
<slickymasterWork> ok flocculant.
<slickymasterWork> I'll deal with it tonight or during the weekend
<flocculant> really no rush :) 
<flocculant> 16.04 is week away :p
<slickymasterWork> lol
<flocculant> knome: why do the docs not have nav controls at the top? 
<knome> flocculant, they aren't there by default
<flocculant> ok 
<knome> but as slickymaster what he thinks of that
<flocculant> pain with them only at the bottom - in my opinon anyway :)
<knome> we can likely make that happen if he thinks it's sensible
<flocculant> but then I did have to go through them all rather than what I guess people would actually do 
<knome> yeah
<knome> true too
<flocculant> I think I could probably dissuade myself here lol 
<knome> :D
<flocculant> anyway - was just a question and thought :)
<knome> yep, np
<flocculant> ty
<knome> i never thought they'd be something people would use that much
<knome> as you implied (i think), people will just go to whatever they need help with
<knome> and if they are going to read it all, having the controls at the bottom is enough
<flocculant> yep - that was the implication 
<knome> bbl again...
<flocculant> !team | meeting in 15 minutes ish ... if you're going to be around logs from the earlier meeting got on the meeting page
<ubottu> meeting in 15 minutes ish ... if you're going to be around logs from the earlier meeting got on the meeting page: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<flocculant> !team | meeting is upon us 
<ubottu> meeting is upon us: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<flocculant> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Oct 16 20:00:18 2015 UTC.  The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<flocculant> and who other than me is about :)
 * krytarik is
<Noskcaj> O/
<flocculant> hey Noskcaj :)
<knome> hullo
<flocculant> well hopefully this should be fairly swift 
<flocculant> let's just get on 
<flocculant> #topic Open Action Items
<knome> my item is done
<knome> we just need to vote on it now
<flocculant> excellent 
<flocculant> knome: shall we just take that to m/l or start here? 
<flocculant> I'm easy either way
<knome> let's do it on the M/L
<knome> i'll do that today
<flocculant> ok :)
<knome> #action knome to set up voting on meeting structure
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to set up voting on meeting structure
<flocculant> ta :)
<flocculant> # Topic Team Updates
<flocculant> I do have an extra from earlier
<knome> flocculant, that isn't picked up btw
<flocculant> what isn't? 
<knome> flocculant, you need to stick topic to #
<flocculant> #Topic Team Updates
<knome> (afaik)
<flocculant> #info started the 16.04 doc read through and MP done
<flocculant> anything from others? 
<flocculant> I be it should be t instead of T too :p
<flocculant> anything from Noskcaj or knome ? 
<knome> everything from me is in the tracker
<knome> but no, nothing really for now
<flocculant> Noskcaj: anything - I know you've just got back ofc 
<flocculant> #topic Discussion
<flocculant> #subtopic Last minute Wily issues for discussion
<flocculant> from the last meeting all that came up was 
<flocculant> 1 - gmb issue still a problem
<flocculant> 2 - getting the default media player back into discussion
<flocculant> anyone with comments on those? 
<flocculant> bah - 2 - getting the default media player choice back into discussion
<knome> at least it "only" crashes on close
<knome> but 2, totally, for 16.04
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> too late for any changes now
<flocculant> ok so we just need to X the W and run with that
<flocculant> #action flocculant to build Specifications/X/DefaultMediaPlayer
<meetingology> ACTION: flocculant to build Specifications/X/DefaultMediaPlayer
<flocculant> I'll do that once we're finished
<knome> :)
<knome> fwiw, my action item is done
<flocculant> really hard ... 
<flocculant> knome: ok :)
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> fleeting thought then 
<flocculant> oh yea - not really Wily, but currently our wiki bar had vivid roadmap etc on it - are we going to keep on with that? 
<flocculant> eg XX soon? 
<knome> i don't think so
<knome> i'll fix that now
<flocculant> ok - thanks knome :)
<flocculant> #subtopic Core ISO/ CD:DVD 
<flocculant> so we were hoping that Unit193 would be about 
 * krytarik too
<flocculant> krytarik said in earlier meeting that nothing had changed
<flocculant> at the moment the bp has the latest task with no owner, so it doesn't show up, I'd say that for the moment we should just postpone that and give it an owner
<krytarik> Not after we pinged them again last Friday anyway.
<flocculant> then get it on the X bp 
<knome> ok, wiki menu updated
<flocculant> I'd suggest that we add that to the whiteboard on -dev too 
<flocculant> bluesabre and I both want to see this in asap for X 
<knome> me too
<flocculant> knome: ooh - that looks good ;)
<flocculant> shouldn't be alphabetical though - or Z to A :D
<flocculant> thanks :)
<flocculant> #subtopic 15.10 RC and testing 
<flocculant> self explanatory - please test this :)
<flocculant> I'll not redo (or copy) my info's from a few hours ago 
<flocculant> knome Noskcaj any comments on the RC? 
<knome> i haven't had time to test it, but by all other signs, we're looking pretty good
<knome> or in other words
<knome> phenomenal work again, everybody!
<flocculant> yep - it is looking all pretty much good 
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> I really do think that release by release we look more and more polished
<knome> totally
<flocculant> really is phenomenal work by those who do it :)
<knome> let's keep on the same direction for 16.04 and it will be an awesome release with a relatively recent, stable xfce version - something to look in awe for years
<flocculant> yep for sure 
<flocculant> anyway - before we all slap each other on the back so hard we're all unconscious - let's move on
<flocculant> #subtopic 16.04 Milestones
<flocculant> the consensus in the earlier meeting was to A2 in that cycle
<flocculant> any objections to that? 
<knome> that sounds sane if it looks like we aren't in a total mess at that point
<knome> but since it's an LTS cycle, that's unlikely
<flocculant> even so 
<knome> so +1 for that from me
<flocculant> thanks 
<flocculant> I should info bluesabre's info here :)
<flocculant> #info From a development perspective, we're targeting bug fixes to make 16.04 super stable.  Don't expect a lot of new features, so testing done at all parts of the cycle will be incredibly relevant
<flocculant> Noskcaj: you up for that ;)
<flocculant> as part of the dev team rather than testing 
<flocculant> #subtopic 16.04 Package Testing
<flocculant> so - the long and short of this is - we will be bringing it back for the next cycle
<flocculant> more specifically aimed at times
<flocculant> one more important info from earlier 
<flocculant> #info Usability bug reports are fair game. These changes really make Xfce and Xubuntu easier to use for lots of people. If things don't seem quite right with an application, let us know
<knome> if we change the default media player, that should happen ASAP
<knome> usability and accessibility
<flocculant> yep
<knome> (even if we can't promise to fix them)
<flocculant> yea for sure
<flocculant> #action xubuntu-team to decide on default media player prior to alpha 2 in order to deal with usability and accessibility concerns
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to decide on default media player prior to alpha 2 in order to deal with usability and accessibility concerns
<Noskcaj> flocculant, a late reply, but yeah, sounds good
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> wasn't sure if you had disappeared then :)
<flocculant> #action flocculant To take default media player discussion to M/L 
<meetingology> ACTION: flocculant To take default media player discussion to M/L
<knome> %action knome to make a grumpy reply on the media player discussion
<knome> O:)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> i think i could say it here: i think one of the best choices would be to not ship a default media player
<flocculant> %action flocculant to want qt in xubuntu so he can have clementine
<knome> then we could et over this silly discussion on every cycle
<knome> +g
<flocculant> knome: that is a logical choice - given that while parole is not a music player - it plays anything I throw at it 
<knome> remove gmb and just slam a FAQ article for people about some of the favorite media players for the team members
<flocculant> yep 
<knome> flocculant, except some DVD's
 * knome hides
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> knome assumes that flocculant has a drive in his machine :p
<knome> heh
<knome> some people still do use optical media
<Unit193> Hi.
<knome> HELLOOOOO UNIIIIIIIT!
<flocculant> hi Unit193 :)
<flocculant> #subtopic Core re-run
<flocculant> just bring this up :)
<flocculant> Unit193: can you give a brief precise of where we are with that please :)
<flocculant> just some #info's would be cool
<Unit193> Well everything has been done on our side for a while, just waiting for someone to review and merge it.  Still.
<Unit193> So nothing new?
<knome> i've tried to /wii slangasek a few times, haven't been online at the same time with him to get a comment from him
<knome> Unit193, everything means all changes he requested after the first review, i suppose?
<Unit193> So, we've poked infinity a few times, slangasek a couple times...
<flocculant> Unit193: what do you think is the best way to move this forward asap - no-one wants this to drop off the radar I guess
<Unit193> knome: No, that was done more recently, not months ago.  But it is ready too yes.
<knome> Unit193, good good
<knome> flocculant, i'll keep an eye on it too and try to get a hold of slangasek who looked at it the last time
<knome> flocculant, it might be something happens only after 15.10 release though
<flocculant> Unit193: can you add core tasks to the 16.04 bp ? 
<Unit193> flocculant: Kind of out of my control, not much I can do.  I really wanted someone to merge before XXX so I wouldn't have to rebase..
<flocculant> yea - not blaming anyone obviously
<knome> Unit193, maybe we can get it in before the new stuff kicks in
<Unit193> Sure, it's just there's not much we/I *can* do.
<Unit193> knome: Hopefully.
<flocculant> but at least we can [xubuntu-team] the task then we all know and can prod it 
<knome> flocculant, i'm with Unit193 here for now; let's keep this on manual control
<knome> as he says, everything is done on our side
<knome> now we just need somebody to look at it
<flocculant> knome: yea - get that, but it needs to be trackable for us with the tracker
<Unit193> And I'd like to keep it that way, so hopefully before all the X changes hit...
<flocculant> Unit193: ack that
<flocculant> *we* just need to track it 
<flocculant> bluesabre and I both want to get this at least on the tracker properly asap
<knome> flocculant, added an item
<knome>  [ubuntu-cdimage] Review xubuntu-core patches: INPROGRESS
<flocculant> doesn't matter so much if it breaks - but it means we *can* track it 
<flocculant> knome: ok cool - ty, pretty sure I have a QA task for it too 
<flocculant> thanks Unit193 :)
<Unit193> Sure, sorry there's not much to add.
<flocculant> Unit193: that doesn't matter - I (at least) was just a bit at sea with it 
<flocculant> and I guess other's weren't sure
<flocculant> ty :) 
<flocculant> moving on
<flocculant> #subtopic Bug Tagging
<flocculant> this is just a re-iteration of please use the tags we asked
<flocculant> people will search on those
<flocculant> and given bluesabre's avowed aim for 16.04 it'll make his life easier :)
<flocculant> anyone have any other points to bring up? 
<knome> i approve
<flocculant> of everything I hope :)
<knome> yep
<flocculant> awesome
<flocculant> #topic Schedule Next Meeting
<knome> who's in turn
<flocculant> I would suggest that we start the cycle with ochosi as XPL 
<knome> yeah, i was thinking the same - if the next meeting is after the release, that is
<flocculant> if he can ofc, if not I would suggest the dev member of Release :p
<knome> or the technical lead
<knome> :P
<flocculant> leave it up to ochosi and bluesabre to make that decision 
<flocculant> knome: :D
<knome> or anybody whose surname is very known in tennis
<flocculant> #action XPL or Technical Lead to set next meeting at the start of X cycle
<meetingology> ACTION: XPL or Technical Lead to set next meeting at the start of X cycle
<flocculant> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Oct 16 20:53:30 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-10-16-20.00.moin.txt
<knome> thanks flocculant - for both meetings
<flocculant> thanks all :)
<knome> now go vote on the ML
<knome> krytarik, that applies to you too :D
<krytarik> lol
<knome> see, new responsibilities
<flocculant> voted
<flocculant> +0
<knome> :D
<Unit193> < bluesabre> #info Our libreoffice-elementary-theme is now upstream in LibreOffice  this is great.
<Unit193> < krytarik> There is nothing more to add though.  that really summed it all up! :P
<krytarik> Heh.
<flocculant> Unit193: LO is good 
<knome> the theme is good
<flocculant> Unit193: I agree - but people other than us can read the wiki 
<Unit193> knome: TBH, doesn't seem much different just a bit bigger.
<flocculant> it's not that it's not summed up - it's that it's summed up somewhere in the irc logs 
<knome> Unit193, proves you're not an artist >:)
<Unit193> I think I already did that.
<Unit193> Flipped back and forth, not much different.
<knome> well if you've leared that bold is a fat letter for all of your life, you don't suddenly want to see a smiley there, do you?
<knome> it's all about the balance of being very recognisable but sleeker
<knome> and sure, there are many icons that are still the same as before
<Unit193> I don't extensivly use it either.  OK, done with both meetings.
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> And, lovely.  Default media players again! :P
<flocculant> or not :)
<Unit193> knome: You added a new item without removing the last, FWIW.
<knome> Unit193, go fix it, silleeeyyyh!
<Unit193> knome: Yep, will when I open firefox.  Was just letting you know. :P
<flocculant> logs done I hope
<knome> Unit193, well, gee, thanks :P
<Unit193> Didn't know if you saw it in the first place.
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> something that didn't get a mention in either meeting was we're adding changelog links to the wiki release note
<flocculant> trying to make one technical and one marketing
<flocculant> making the website more a story hopefully 
<knome> :)
<flocculant> or human readable perhaps :) 
<knome> yep
<knome> or human oriented
<flocculant> yea
<knome> o hai ochosi 
<ochosi> hey knome 
<ochosi> just stopping by on my way to bed
<knome> ochosi, feel free to cast a vote ;)
<flocculant> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> finally installed xubuntu @work today \o/
<flocculant> \o/ 
<ochosi> was a long road to get there
<knome> cool
<knome> next to convince others to use xubuntu too ;)
<ochosi> yeah, we'll see whether i'll have time for that
<ochosi> but yeah, it's on the radar
<ochosi> i actually wanna convince the IT department to support it, that's far better than dealing with individuals ;)
<ochosi> anyhoo, i'll read up on the meeting tomorrow
<flocculant> ochosi: there was a fair but after 2 or 3 hours 
<flocculant> knome: does this make sense to give the option at the beginning https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/X/DefaultMediaPlayer
<flocculant> s/but/bit
<ochosi> just quickly wantd to check whether the xfce4-notifyd patches of today adressed any of my issues/ceoncerns
<knome> flocculant, i don't think we're touching parole this time
<flocculant> ochosi: not sure of concerns or whether they landed tbh 
<flocculant> knome: I obviously didn't make it plain then :)
<knome> flocculant, or at least i have had the image that we're only talking about the music/collection player
<flocculant> added media to the parole line
<knome> the all seem like on option
<knome> *one
<flocculant> all that *I* need to do is use parole more to play music 
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> i mean if we do the first, then we obviously do the second, and should do the third
<knome> hello sean
<flocculant> knome: then line 2 can go 
<flocculant> line 3 stays
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: knome showed up for meeting #2 you can imagine what happened then ... 
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> with krytarik too ... 
<flocculant> knome: ok - so now with the default wikiu page ? 
<knome> flocculant, better
<knome> flocculant, though there still aren't "options", just one :D
<flocculant> oh my
<knome> :D
<flocculant> there are 2 implicit options :D
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> well if we want parole to be our default media+music player it should get a little better at playing music
<bluesabre> sounds like work
<bluesabre> >.<
<flocculant> knome: it is of course a wiki, so you slickymaster and krytarik can fiddle as much as you want, then I can go back and remove the stranglish :D
<ochosi> or well: managing music ftm
<ochosi> yeah, well i'd say if we go with parole the least it would need is the plugin installer
<flocculant> bluesabre: my plan is to get you to let parole play things, make everything else a FAQ item and down to personal choice 
<flocculant> I was on your side :(
<ochosi> other than that, i'd also be fine with parole as it is tbh
<Unit193> The idea isn't to turn parole into the media manager, it is to *remove* the music manager.
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi: there is one thing that stops me using parole more than I do - playlist support
<knome> flocculant, NOW there are two OPTIONS :)
<flocculant> Unit193: +1 
<knome> Unit193, you mean "remove the media manager"
<flocculant> knome: that's because of the 's 
<knome> flocculant, yeah i broke it, but now you have option A and option B :)
<Unit193> knome: I meant 'music manager' the first time too.  Media Manager seems like we're getting rid of thunar-volman.
<flocculant> Unit193: :)
<flocculant> knome: oh man - release the lock :)
<knome> noooo
<knome> i'll add something else before that
<flocculant> like a choice? 
<knome> nope, definitions/terms
<ochosi> Unit193: i'm not necessarily talking about parole managing a library or anything.. ah, anyway, i'm not sure i'm a huge fan of introducing a lot of features to it in the 16.04 cycle, so i guess we'd have to mostly take it as it is
<flocculant> knome: oh do please add a choice as well :p
<knome> what choice then? :P
<bluesabre> create a media player link in the menu that goes to a section in the local help :D
<knome> OK
<knome> EVERYBODy
<knome> HALT
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/X/DefaultMediaManager
<flocculant> ochosi: my position is fairly clear, add qt, as we won't do that, can we please lose gmb and just stick with parole that play's both :D
<knome> i moved the page to that url
<bluesabre> "There's lot of music players, here's the 16 we've tried in Xubuntu over the years"
<bluesabre> I'm just being silly
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> long day
<knome> the beginning of the page now lists definitions
<knome> by those definitions, we are mainly looking for a new media *manager*, or dropping it
<knome> if somebody wants to edit the page, please make sure the terms are used correctly on the page
<knome> if not, i'll do that...
<flocculant> bluesabre: seriously I have tried as many as I could posibbly try - and used them 
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> knome: I had already copied to X :)
<knome> no
<knome> look again
<ochosi> i have to admit i haven't used any local music manager in a while...
<bluesabre> I have no horse in this race, I just stream these days
<knome> anyway,
<knome> HALT
<knome> i'll edit the page
<knome> it's a mess
<knome> 2 minutes.
<ochosi> bluesabre: same here
<knome> ok, good now
<knome> saving
<knome> done
<flocculant> ochosi: I don't stream - I use the sources locally ~2Tb now
<knome> flocculant, note that the url is now ...MediaManager not MediaPlayer
<flocculant> wut
<knome> flocculant, for clarity purposes...
<knome> flocculant, yeswut.
<flocculant> can you not just link it :)
<knome> i did
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/X/DefaultMediaManager
<knome> that's not the link you gave me
<knome> i changed the last word from Player to Manager
<knome> because we are essentially looking for a new media *manager*
<knome> and now i'll stop confusing you further :P
<ochosi> alrighty folks, time to get to bed
<ochosi> have a good one!
<Unit193> flocculant: Nightingale? :-----D
<bluesabre> convert your library to ogg and use firefox for the media player, then we can drop parole as well :D
<knome> firefox doesn't even play the few DVDs that parole does
 * knome hides
<bluesabre> I'm actually really impressed, the post-meeting discussion has been pretty substantial
<bluesabre> knome: :P
<knome> apart from my trolling, you mean
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> if only SwissBot did the s// to make Player > Manager easier
<knome> heh
<Unit193> bluesabre: knome made me remove it. :(
<Unit193> Also, then use VLC like every other sane person! :P
<Unit193> Or, mpv!
<flocculant> Unit193: tried it ... 
<flocculant> knome: you and your one letter changes ... 
<knome> :Ã
<knome> trolololololol
<flocculant> :p
<knome> flocculant, re: voting
<knome> obviously, the project's benefit first
<knome> if people are away, and something must be decided, then something will be decided
<knome> be it the XPL, or he's away, the XTL, or if he's away, then some other team leader, and if the appropriate leaders are away, the rest of the team by the best of their knowledge and with the project's interest and the strategy document in mind
<pleia2> am I failing to vote on something again?
<knome> pleia2, see the mailing list, i started a vote *today*
<knome> pleia2, no worries :)
<pleia2> aha :)
<flocculant> pleia2: ha - not yet :)
<knome> usually, week has been enough to gather the quorum of votes
<knome> and most of the time, most of the team, not just the quorum
<flocculant> pleia2: I'm just doing that thing I do - ask stuff :)
<pleia2> flocculant: good to know :)
<Unit193> pleia2: Small "issue", should easily pass.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-17
<Unit193> So anything about Core going into the release notes? :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: go ahead and add anything relevant, we still very much care about core :)
<bluesabre> waiting patiently for rc
<flocculant> yea 
<dkessel> are you sure they pushed the button before leaving for the weekend? :p
<flocculant> I'm pretty sure they meant to :p
<bluesabre> :D
<slickymaster> flocculant, the nav controls aren't at the top mainly for aesthetic reasons
<flocculant> bluesabre: possibly they didn't so that gcc5 and glib updates got out of proposed - guess they'd rebuild for those 
<flocculant> slickymaster: ack
<slickymaster> flocculant, in your opinion bringin them to the top would bring any positive aspects in terms of functionality? at least enough to justify the overlap of functionality over aesthetics
<slickymaster> + g
<flocculant> nope - I dissuaded myself in the end :)
<slickymaster> :)
<dkessel> fyi: lubuntu already has a long list of known issues for 15.10 in their release notes. i guess some might affest us, too.... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes/Lubuntu
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<flocculant> I'll do something tomorrow for users
<flocculant> only just popped by
<flocculant> dkessel: that looks like just a copy/paste from B2 - many of those bugs are fix released and removed from our draft ;)
<knome> flocculant, np, saw it land in the inbox and thought to forward it right away
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-18
<Unit193> gcc-5 (5.2.1-22ubuntu2) wily; urgency=medium
<Unit193> * Strip the compiler binaries for the release.
<Unit193> There you go.
<flocculant> bluesabre: I moved the draft notes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/FinalRelease/Xubuntu 
<flocculant> I'll be wanting to point at that when I *invite* users list to join in with testing :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: sounds good to me
<flocculant> waiting for tomorrow's inevitable rebuild first though :)
<knome> bluesabre, did we do a docs translation update already or are you still waiting for slickymaster on that?
<bluesabre> knome: we did it on the 9th, http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/x/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs_15.10.1/changelog
<knome> bluesabre, good good
<Unit193> The current translations can still be used on the site.
<knome> yes, but since we ship the documentation with the system...
<Unit193> Sure, mean to say the ones that just hit don't have to be useless.
<knome> nope
<knome> but they reminded me that we needed to do that upload
<bluesabre> Some RC publicity and screenshots, https://smdavis.us/2015/10/18/xubuntu-15-10-rc-available/
<flocculant> thanks :)
<knome> bluesabre, retweeted your tweet
<flocculant> bluesabre: I assume you got the bug list from the draft notes 
<bluesabre> knome: thanks
<knome> np
<bluesabre> flocculant: yes
<flocculant> if people do it *no* they'll see 2 not on the list :p
<bluesabre> I'll change mine as those change
<bluesabre> flocculant: which 2?
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - you subscribed to it? if not I'll ping you when I change things
<flocculant> the restore and new file ones
<bluesabre> I'll sub to it
<flocculant> ok 
<flocculant> I'll remember not to hit the trivial change button then :p
<bluesabre> I'm always impressed at how I am not logged in to the wiki
<knome> one can subscribe to trivial changes too... :P
<flocculant> knome: didn't know that
<flocculant> it's hard enough logging on to it without trying to do extra things :p
<knome> haha
<Unit193> parole 0.8.1-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<knome> o.O
<knome> what the color
<flocculant> green and blues 
<knome> :P
<knome> some cyan here too
<knome> anyway
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> later
<bluesabre> seeya knome 
<flocculant> upgrades take so looooooong ... 
<jjfrv8> flocculant, is a test for upgrades going to appear on the tracker at some point?
<flocculant> jjfrv8: I've asked that
<flocculant> but - the daily upgrade is dated "2015/10/16 at 21:00 UTC and finishing on 2015/10/23 at 21:00 UTC"
<flocculant> if people use that I look there anyway
<flocculant> I just want to doublecheck that the modem bug is really fixed 
<jjfrv8> ok
<flocculant> tbh I'm not expecting to see much in the way of problems
<dkessel> oh noeees
<dkessel> the german ubiquity slideshow translation is incomplete :(
 * dkessel is already running an upgrade test for i386
<flocculant> got both going here 
<dkessel> live session start menu looked broken. got to have another look at that later
<flocculant> start menu?
<dkessel> yeah, some icons were broken. the one for the settings manager, for example. i'll see after installation...maybe it's the same there then
<flocculant> whiskermenu you mean? 
<dkessel> of course ^
<flocculant> didn't know if you meant the debian menu, the try/install one or whisker :)
<flocculant> dkessel: looks fine here
<bluesabre> flocculant: is this report the one we're using for vm installation restart failure as well? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/1447038
<flocculant> it's the one people have been putting on the tracker 
<flocculant> though it is extremely hard to tell with the stupid icons for bugs there 
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> tbh I don't often bother with reporting vb issues
<flocculant> I think next cycle -release will care more about those than the last 3 or 4 cycles
<bluesabre> Probably
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/8mj8sgL.png
<flocculant> si actually what I'm seeing currently
<bluesabre> yeah, pretty sure that's what I saw
<bluesabre> I don't mind as long as the installation actually works
<flocculant> well I'm glad about that - or I'd have had to mark releases not ready :p
<flocculant> added comment and screeny to that bug report 
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> seems the be the most current casper bug for vm like that 
<flocculant> looks to me like it's trying to do something to the squashfs after it's been unmounted - ish :p
<bluesabre> very technicky
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> well - was more a case of ready guessy I think :p
<flocculant> anyway - bbl 
<bluesabre> seeya
<dkessel> ewww kernel panic while installing... i'll post it later, g2g
<slickymaster> that was already taken care of knome 
<slickymaster> the -docs translations update, that is
<flocculant> knome: don't know whether to edit the last few of our testsuites for package testing or add more 
<flocculant> off again :p
<dkessel> would i tag a kernel bug with "xubuntu-exp", too?
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> I guess I should make plain that's for things we can actually do something about :)
<knome> flocculant, whatever feels the better choice :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-17
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r628 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r482 Fix remaining single-stop gradients (issue #155)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r482 Fix remaining single-stop gradients (issue #155)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-18
<bluesabre> flocculant, hacking on mugshot, decided to just rewrite Cheese's vala code in python and sure enough it seems to work
<bluesabre> it feels wrong, but it's a mostly 1:1 port :)
<Unit193> Awwwh. :(
<Unit193> :P
<bluesabre> flocculant, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mugshot-dev/mugshot/trunk/revision/218 finally!
<bluesabre> will probably need some testing with other webcam models
<bluesabre> time for bed, night all
<flocculant> bluesabre: :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: ^^ :)
<flocculant> I'll dig my one out
<akxwi-dave> ack... got a usb plug in as well as two lappy's with built in..
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi, I'd suggested this in the past, what do you guys think of including some default profile pictures/faces in xubuntu-artwork?
<knome> bluesabre, yes, i still think that's a good idea
<akxwi-dave> deffo..
<akxwi-dave> here's a starter for you https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/f11NfFzA/jsw.jpg
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<bluesabre> knome, are we interested in that being an initiative for this release?
<knome> bluesabre, sure, why not
<bluesabre> knome, awesome
<bluesabre> currently getting 17.04 branches set up
<bluesabre> going to rename -docs/z to zesty
<knome> ooh, we have a name :P
<knome> and thanks
<bluesabre> http://markshuttleworth.com/archives/1512
<bluesabre> np
<Unit193> !zesty
<ubottu> Ubuntu 17.04 (Zesty Zapus) will be the 26th release of Ubuntu.  It is due to be released in April 2017. Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<knome> yeah
<bluesabre> Unit193, in regards to the appfinder, the issue is just the extra space in the dropdown, correct?
<Unit193> Yeah.
<Unit193> I have been about zero cranky about that port. \o/
<bluesabre> :)
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-artwork had 4 updates, showing the latest 3
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [yakkety] r317 Rename for consistency.... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [yakkety] r318 * Add support for new icon naming for Totem (LP: #1623768)... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [yakkety] r319 Release 16.10.1 (by Sean Davis)
<sorinello_> 16.10.1 already ?
<bluesabre> sorinello_, just swissbot noticing a branch rename
<bluesabre> knome, should have first puzzle launcher this week... have a better name than "sgt-launcher"?
<Unit193> Call it 'vera'
<flocculant> pepper
<zeioth_> I've ported GNOME's 'Wacom Settings' to XFCE
<zeioth_> https://github.com/Zeioth/XFCE-Wacom-Settings
<zeioth_> I'd like to include it by default in a future version of XFCE. Where should I start?
<knome> bluesabre, i think sgt-launcher is just good :P
<flocculant> evening knome 
<knome> hello
<ochosi> zeioth_: it looks like you have a hard dependency on gnome-settings-daemon there - what's the "ported to Xfce" about?
<zeioth_> ochosi it's the first version, I focused on having it working properly.
<ochosi> sure but for the final version you basically need to make it independent of gnome
<zeioth_> Ok, i'll be working on that. By now, anyone can install it easily, at least.
<zeioth_> thank you for your feedback
<ochosi> no worries
<ochosi> contributions are definitely welcome
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-20
<bluesabre> anybody interested in poking sgt-launcher, got a first package build in my experimental ppa, https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/experimental (and feel free to ignore the borrowed package descriptions)
 * bluesabre wonders if ochosi or knome want to draw an icon
<bluesabre> time for bed, night all
<Unit193> ...I'll draw an icon, but you don't want me to.
 * bluesabre waits in anticipation
<ochosi> bluesabre: only if you rename it to something less terrible than "sgt-launcher" ;)
<flocculant> ochosi: blame knome :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: just pretend it's a gnome thing - then you can call the launcher Games
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> good idea :)
<flocculant> hi ochosi - I thought so :p
<flocculant> though I preferred Sgt Pepper - but I'm older than you ...
<ochosi> flocculant: will you still need me, will you still feed me...
<Unit193> ..When I'm 64.
<DalekSec> Nope.
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> morning all
<ochosi> morning bluesabre 
<flocculant> afternoon bluesabre 
<bluesabre> morning ochosi flocculant 
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<flocculant> lunch time - ok at the moment :p
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> had a quick look at sergeant rock launcher :)
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> yet another old music reference :p
<bluesabre> you could say it was indie and I wouldn't know since I haven't heard of it
<flocculant> XTC :)
<flocculant> something from when I was youngish and you were babbling :p
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: wanna do some notifyd persistence/logging testing?
<bluesabre> ochosi, leave me any details on it and I'll test it when I get home tonight
<ochosi> k cool
<ochosi> bluesabre: basically check out this branch (there are some small TODOs left), should be fairly self-explanatory: https://git.xfce.org/users/ochosi/xfce4-notifyd/log/?h=logging
<ochosi> bluesabre: you need to also install (or run the xfce4-notifyd from the build-dir), otherwise no logging obviously
<bluesabre> ochosi, sounds reasonable
<bluesabre> bbl
<Unit193> bluesabre: Any reason not to sync -notifyd?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-21
<bluesabre> Unit193, I see none
<bluesabre> This is the cycle where we'll start experimenting with the new apps
 * Unit193 uses -s bluesabre juuuust in case. :---D
<Unit193> And, "bummer" then. :P
<bluesabre> lol
<Unit193> Though so far it's just panel plugins that annoy me, not -terminal, -notifyd or appfinder.  Though, notifyd really doesn't like wide notifications anymore.
<Unit193> Archive opened today, this is my third package sync. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193, awesome
<bluesabre> Unit193, so, you're fine with gtk3 xfce as long as things don't change unnecessarily?
<Unit193> Honestly, as long as it doesn't feel like I'm downgrading when I upgrade, yeah pretty much.  I finally "bit the bullet" and upgraded to the new terminal to see if it really did have that much of a slow down.  Worst thing about it is the theme I use has crappy GTK3 support. :P
<Unit193> Oh, and there actually might be an oddity in how it handles scroll events though.
<Unit193> https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-terminal/commit/?id=16c47b9eccb3095f893675ba84f6ceeed816252e +1
<bluesabre> Unit193, that's definitely reasonable
<Unit193> Yeah, that's certainly an oddity.
<Unit193> When a terminal window gains focus, it will eat the first scroll event.
<bluesabre> huh
<bluesabre> I feel like that affects a lot of things
<Unit193> vim/nano or just scrolling in scrollback.
<Unit193> (I'll poke f202 about it.)
<bluesabre> good idea
<bluesabre> ochosi, seems to work, notification log is not updated while config window is open (but maybe thats by design)
<Unit193> What is the new feature?
<bluesabre> Unit193, guessing http://i.imgur.com/umc1n2h.png ?
<bluesabre> ochosi, perhaps add the calling application to the tooltip so it's easier to identify in the applications list
<ochosi> bluesabre: yes, currently that's by design. i've locally already added a refresh button - not sure i really want to monitor the cache file for changes...
<ochosi> bluesabre: also the tooltips aren't final, i mostly wanted to check whether it all seems alright
<ochosi> bluesabre: interesting to see that one of the images is 48px, not sure how that can be
<ochosi> bluesabre: ping
<knome> a late night ochosi appears
<ochosi> yeah, it happens
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-22
<ochosi> bluesabre: anyhow, i pushed some more things to the logging branch, feel free to check it out. also, if you have suggestions for the tooltips lemme know. the "simple/icon-only" notifications currently only have a timestamp
<bluesabre> ochosi, perhaps "{process name} - {localized timestamp}\nfulltext"
<ochosi> bluesabre: the timestamp is currently ISO 8601 so i can more easily parse it back from the logfile. so you're saying i should re-parse it into something more human-readable for the tooltip? and yeah, probably a good idea for the layout
<ochosi> bluesabre: anyway, tried the layout and pushed it to the branch. check it out!
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-23
<bluesabre> ochosi, yup, that's pretty much what I am suggesting :D
<bluesabre> ochosi, format is good, no confusion about what is printing what now :)
<bluesabre> translations should work now for sgt-launcher
<bluesabre> I think I'll keep the launcher as that, but the title of the app as "SGT Puzzles Collection", https://launchpad.net/sgt-launcher
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you have so many good ideas, any suggestions as to what time format string to use then? :)
<Unit193> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12916 \o/
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12916 in Iconview "exo 0.11.1 breaks thunar detailed file view" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> ochosi, strftime has %X, "The preferred time representation for the current locale without the date."
<bluesabre> ochosi, or %c, "The preferred date and time representation for the current locale."
<knome> ochosi, +1 on bluesabre's suggestion
<ochosi> bluesabre: right, that's an option, i think i still wanna keep the log using ISO 8601 though, so i'll have to reparse for the UI
<bluesabre> sure, that's reasonable
<ochosi> silly char -> gtimeval -> gdate -> strftime -> char hoops i'm jumping through...
<ochosi> was considering to just use the g_date_set_parse shortcut
<ochosi> but it seems a little meh
<knome> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: have you checked the branch/code for other stuff like memleaks?
<ochosi> btw, there's a bad part of logging which i think i won't be able to solve. some notifications are sent with pixbufs directly in the notification as a hint, and i have a hard time logging pixbufs...
<ochosi> (well, to a text-file that is)
<Unit193> asciiart with libcaca. >_>
<ochosi> lol
<knome> can you save them to a cache file, save the filename in the log, then call the cache file when the log is viewed?
<ochosi> yeah, but that's silly
<ochosi> i mean that means logging a lot of icons for no really good reason
<knome> sure... but that logs it :P
<knome> is sending pixmaps directly standard?
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> then i guess you should be able to log that
<ochosi> even the preferred method iirc
<knome> right
<ochosi> not sure, that's just a convenience addon for the log imo
<ochosi> mainly it should be functional and not eat your memory or hdd
<knome> so they are the main icons?
<knome> or something else?
<ochosi> yeah, the main icons
<ochosi> in theory the standard contains a secondary icon
<ochosi> but whether and how this would be shown depends on the notification server
<ochosi> (i know of no server with support for this, but maybe the gnome folks do that)
<ochosi> odd, date parses out fine, time does not
<ochosi> will have to debug that further some other da
<ochosi> y
<ochosi> oh crap. my parsing won't work for %H:%M as GDate only seems to support YMD
<ochosi> bluesabre: %c seems a little much info, no? in my TZ/locale: Sam 22 Okt 2016 23:34:07 CEST
<ochosi> anyway, in theory this re-parsing should also help with more sort methods or separators (like: yesterday, last week etc)
<ochosi> night all
<Unit193> The packages "tracker" will now target zesty. :P
<knome> ochosi, actually i think %c is just good
<Unit193> bluesabre: Pooooooke?
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'm going to nuke Xenial from xfce4-gtk3.  Also, whiskermenu is in depwait for a fixed exo.
<Unit193> Also I'd like to remove exo until it is fixed. :3
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-16
<krytarik> Uh oh, just noticed we didn't do a translation sync/upload for the docs.
<bluesabre> :(
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: That new Core I promised is up, btw.
<slickymasterWork> great Unit193, thanks
<slickymasterWork> will download it tonight and will report back
<slickymasterWork> the download url is the same, right Unit193
<slickymasterWork> ?
<Unit193> Yep.
<slickymasterWork> oki doke
<Unit193> base-files is up, looks like I should re-do them, then. :P
<willcooke> flocculant, ack
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> always a welcome sight :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: I've copied pad note stuff to the wiki rn
<flocculant> still got stuff to do there below though
<flocculant> ochosi: what you want to say about the 'sometime' double network dooby? 
<flocculant> somnething sort of 'yea we know, not had time to deal with that, you can restart network, panel or plugin to resest if you wish, though it is only an appearance issue at this point'
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah that sounds about right :>
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - I'll tart it up a bit though :D
<flocculant> I'll change yea to Yes :p
<ochosi> hehe, i had hoped so
<ochosi> :'D
<flocculant> is it some sort of race condition? 
<flocculant> I thought I remembered bluesabre saying 'yea that's going to be great to fix :(' a while back?
<ochosi> yeah, i'd classify it as a race condition
<flocculant> ok - will sort somethign for the rn soon :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I guess I should report that so we've got something to remember in bb :)
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> flocculant is signing up for the next big brother season?
<knome> with ochosi?
<knome> :P
<knome> that'd be something to see
<flocculant> ochosi: Currently at times the panel could show 2 network icons, this appears to be a race condition which we have not been able to rectify in time for release. While this is an appearance issue only as far as we know, you can if you wish restart networking, the affected plugin or the panel. This does not however stop the issue from re-appearing.
<ochosi> suggestion "This fixes the issue in your running session but does not prevent the issue from re-appearing."
<flocculant> knome: I assume you've got the wordy release announcement all in hand
<knome> of course... not
<flocculant> ochosi: ack - that sounds better
<flocculant> knome: :D
<knome> i guess i should work on it "someday" :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> ideally before thursday
<flocculant> someone should - it won't be me this cycle -- last full week in current job, with the new driver following me around
<knome> i should have time on thursday but i'd rather not count on that :P
<flocculant> ochosi: what to report this against though? 
<ochosi> that's the problem, it's not really clear
<flocculant> ochosi: :) ok - then I'll just add something to one of the bp's
<ochosi> yeah, makes sense so we don't forget
<flocculant> ok - added to rn so it's not forgotten this week 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-17
<flocculant> bluesabre: re artful plus ppa's - could we try and get together before bb is too old to plan that? 
<flocculant> don't want to leave it too long - earlier people are using it the better for you :D
<Unit193> Any ideas yet on the plan for that?
<bluesabre> flocculant, Unit193: we could add some packages to xubuntu-staging since that's kind of it's purpose
<bluesabre> Could also add a new template to xfpanel-switch to upgrade their panel
<bluesabre> We also have a login script that runs (that's how templates get updated)
<bluesabre> If we have any other ideas for what we want to do or how we want to do it, I'm game :)
<Unit193> Still not sure exactly the goal, but at least currently I think the point of staging differs.
<bluesabre> I kind of fits... "This is a staging PPA for Xubuntu. The packages and package versions in this PPA are being prepared for inclusion in Xubuntu. The packages are uploaded for the convenience of people testing these new package versions and features. Some of them are daily builds used in testing."
<bluesabre> But I'm also cool with setting up a different one for this purpose
<bluesabre> flocculant: tweaked the formatting on the release notes
<bluesabre> Unit193: the basic goal is to get people testing and reporting bugs early for some of the new things we want to include
<bluesabre> there we go, pretty happy with the release note now
 * flocculant trots off to undo formatting on release note :D
<knome> working on the release announcement
<knome> draft: https://xubuntu.org/?p=4339&preview=true
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<knome> no worries
<knome> i'll have time again tomorrow as situations changed
<flocculant> also I did look
<knome> anything silly?
<flocculant> nope
<knome> you happy with the picked highlights/issues?
<flocculant> yep - iirc :D
<knome> haha
<knome> well i'm sure if you weren't, you'd remember and remind me :P
<flocculant> definitely happy with the encrypt one :D
<knome> :)
<flocculant> yep - just checked 
<flocculant> any of the other listed ones are a bit 'appearancy'
<flocculant> or parole
<knome> also a slight change from the 17.04 announcement; now pointing out that users might want to wait until 18.04
<flocculant> yea saw that - good call
<flocculant> knome: might be worth mentioning parole - believe that generally issue there is 32 bit rather than both arch's
<knome> oh
<flocculant> but - not bug #'s, just comment
<knome> well you're editing
<knome> :P
<knome> anyway, bbl
<flocculant> no I'm not :D
<flocculant> and yep - cya later
<ochosi> does anyone here have a gtk2 panel handy for testing?
<flocculant> not me - unless in a vm?
<flocculant> not even sure whether we gtk2 or 3 panel in current image
 * flocculant is totally lost on what's what now :)
<flocculant> ochosi: could boot a 16.04 iso if that helps
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> nobody has a gtk3 panel in any distro yet afaik
<flocculant> oh well - then yea :)
<ochosi> the main part i would like to ask you to check is when using "autohide" or "intelligent hiding" whether there is a small delay when showing/hiding the panel
<flocculant> in my daily - small delay when showing/hiding 
<flocculant> in 16.04 live and 17.10 live - small delay when showing/hiding
<ochosi> flocculant: ok, good to know. that delay is broken in gtk3 :/
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-notifyd 0.4.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-notifyd-0-4-0-released-tp49931.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> knome: announcement looks good
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-18
<flocculant> ochosi: that - or there's a delay in gtk2 we don't need :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<flocculant> knome: small change to release announcement 
<flocculant> logging out is hanging though - better than not being able to login though :)
<knome> flocculant, did you get to do it?
<flocculant> yea
<knome> ok, good
<flocculant> not doing anything to either now - unless something appears to put on release note
<knome> ack
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hello knome
<bluesabre> how's it going?
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-19
<bluesabre> morning all
<slickymasterWork> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> morning slickymasterWork 
 * pleia2 climbs out from under a rock
<pleia2> knome: shall we release post?
<Managor> Guys, what program manages ~/.config/menus/applications-merged/
<Managor> I'm trying to find the bug that causes spaces to be interpretted as new directories https://imgur.com/a/qCpVK
<flocculant> pleia2: yes
<flocculant> ish
<pleia2> o/ flocculant 
<Managor> no wait. fuck. It's right there in the image I posted
<flocculant> pleia2: done x.org and facebook
<slickymasterWork> flocculant https://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/ also
<slickymasterWork> Managor, please be careful with the language used
<flocculant> wordpress is hanging on me 
<slickymasterWork> as long as it doesn't hang you :P
<Managor> Ummmm... Sorry. It's too commonplace for me to use that sort of language that I don't even think about it
<pleia2> flocculant: thanks, tweeted
<slickymasterWork> pleia2, don't forget G+
<pleia2> I always forget G+
<slickymasterWork> please
<slickymasterWork> :)
<flocculant> omg i Hate this ... 
<slickymasterWork> lol
<krytarik> And don't forget to update  https://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/  too then please. :P
<slickymasterWork> flocculant is fighting it, krytarik 
<krytarik> Good cause. :P
<flocculant> given up 
<slickymasterWork> hahahaha
<flocculant> this stuff show be documented
<flocculant> s/show/should
 * slickymasterWork hides
<pleia2> they changed G+ since I last logged in, haha, but I finally got it posted ;)
<slickymasterWork> \o/
<flocculant> apparently our wordpress stuff is easier since things got changed ... 
<flocculant> knome can fiddle with the getxubuntu page - and then document it properly :)
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> it's supposed to be mostly automatic, much magic
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> I think the magic stick's in one head :p
<Managor> made a bugreport to desktop-file-utils about the folder bug
<flocculant> knome: I updated getxubuntu to mostly point to 17.10 - no idea what foo we're supposed to do to get torrents working
<flocculant> I assume that [torrents release=17-10] isn't set somewhere, cos [mirrors release=17-10] works ok
<flocculant> knome: currently just got direct torrent links there - needs that [torrents release=17.10] sorting, but at least our people can get them simply
<ochosi> \o/ happy release day everyone
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Happy happy release ochosi :)
<bluesabre> knome, pleia2: marketing op... https://twitter.com/BigDaddyLinux/status/921067689069699073
<pleia2> bluesabre: nice, are you going to do it? :)
<bluesabre> pleia2: need to think on it
<bluesabre> Pretty sure there's is video format, and I don't have a great track record there :)
<pleia2> it does seem to be a video podcast ;)
<pleia2> I'd volunteer, but I've been a bit MIA this release and have no idea what's going on \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-20
<knome> flocculant, ack
<Unit193> Want a snack?
<knome> no
<knome> haven't brushed my teeth yet
<knome> torrents sorted out
<knome> next the online docs
 * Unit193 makes a torrent out of knome and seeds it.
<knome> this bit of information is to annoy Unit193: did you know torrents.ubuntu.com doesn't handle https?
<knome> why is my upload speed to the dev server measured in bytes/s :P
<Unit193> That's a tracker so of course it doesn't, but the crappy part is that it doesn't do udp.
<knome> heeeey, 7kB/sec
<knome> 9!
<knome> i'm finishing today!
<knome> actually now it sped up considerably
<knome> not as fast as i'd like but... at least in the 15ish kB :P
<knome> vs. b/s
<Unit193> Why so slow/
<knome> i don't know
<knome> it's not my connection
<knome> maybe the server is in a very unideal place? :P
<knome> heh
<knome> i guess i should fix this typo
<knome> ontrols the visibility of release links on the release apes
<knome> APES?
<knome> means pages...
<knome> oki, docs should be good
<knome> ff has a weird bug which means some of the list buttons and info links aren't shown in the mirror list
<flocculant> knome: where did you go to fix torrents then?
<flocculant> and thanks too :)
<knome> flocculant, under posts -> releases
<knome> or really anything -> releases
<knome> then go edit the appropriate release by clicking its name
<knome> and you have two textboxes where you drop the torrent urls
 * flocculant looks
<flocculant> aah awesome 
<knome> that's also where you update the urls for point releases
<flocculant> I couldn't understand why mirrors worked without doing a thing and torrents didn't :)
<knome> mirrors always follow the same template
<knome> torrents change on point releases, so it has to be manual at least in part
<flocculant> and re ff - I have hanging logouts, hanging when looking at something 'like' Releases
<knome> but hanging is just hanging
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> used chromium in the end as I had enough trouble as it was
<knome> this bug is visual...
<flocculant> :D
<knome> but i also have no idea how i could fix it
<flocculant> and ack to changes to point releases
<knome> i'm not saying "visual is more important than slowsness"
<knome> they're just very different things...
<knome> i hope this visual bug doesn't mean some *content* gets cut off somewhere
<knome> so re: mirrors/torrents again, technically we could link to the 32/64-bit release ISO files directly if we had a text input for "point release postfix"
<knome> eg. insert ".1" if the first point release is out
<knome> then it would append that in the right spot on the mirror link
<knome> (and torrent link)
<knome> maybe for the next release of the website code :)
<knome> i hadn't even thought of that
<knome> but if we do that, we might want to link to the main dir on mirrors too, because all the extra files like checksums and whatnot
<flocculant> well - if it changes let people know, at least now it's one more person knows where to set torrents
<knome> yeah
<knome> i'd also like to make the releases show up on the main admin menu in wordpress
<knome> that's a minor thing
<knome> but also not the most important one
<flocculant> yup
<Managor> Where can I find notes on what's new on xubuntu specifically?
<akxwi-dave> https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.10/release-notes
<knome> akxwi-dave, he was long gone... and his question was answered (by me) on #xubuntu :P
<akxwi-dave> oh well, i tried... ð¢
<flocculant> trying is good :)
<knome> https://open.knome.fi/2017/10/20/refreshing-xubuntu-logo/
<knome> it's official!
<knome> :)
<flocculant> what's the difference?
<knome> lol
<flocculant> I see no ellipticircles :(
<knome> didn't read the mails then? ;)
<knome> or the article :D
<knome> tl;dr: the whiskers
<flocculant> mails?
<knome> well other things too
<flocculant> article?
<knome> there was a team mail in... may?
<flocculant> knome: I kid - I could see the difference :)
<knome> and article being what was just posted ;)
<knome> haha, of course you are
<flocculant> heh
<knome> silly ellipcircle
<flocculant> \o/
<knome> and tweeted that
<knome> while i'm there i might as well change the logo on twitter
<flocculant> ellipticircle? awesome 
<flocculant> knome: https://scontent.flhr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/523898_392463877469192_753070295_n.jpg?oh=c9c2cb328f7250cbf2b2b2ea6d033ada&oe=5A7734DC current fb cover
<flocculant> anyway - back off and on tomorrow 
<knome> hurr durr
<knome> that's ages old
<flocculant> have good weekends
<flocculant> yea I guessed so
<knome> you too
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: ygm
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bb] r639 Update the Xubuntu logo... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bb] r640 Update the changelog... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-21
<flocculant> knome: something up at contributor docs ... very retro :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-22
<knome> flocculant, hmm? :)
<knome> oh
<knome> right
<knome> ack
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> knome: also not sure why b-qa is not showing on tracker ...
<knome> when did you link it to the main blueprint?
<flocculant> before bugs :D
<knome> hmm
<knome> then i don't know
<flocculant> mmk - I'll check tomorrow again
<knome> ping me again if it doesn't show up...
<flocculant> possibly I'm wrong about the when, but if it was after - it's was 30 seconds later 
<flocculant> anyway - yup :)
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - re the double network icon issue - not just network icons ... currently have transmission starting auto to seed us - been seeing 2 of those icons too
<flocculant> same deal - 1 in notification area other in indicators
<ochosi> hmpf, we really need to get rid of the indicator plugin then and hope that with sn-plugin things will get better
<knome> ochosi, did you get my mail re: launchpad icon/logo?
<ochosi> received certainly
<ochosi> read, certainly not
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> start reading... it's a 2 minute task for a good cause :P
<knome> all the stuff you need is attached
<knome> bbl
<knome> or bbabl
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i have several mails that are like that. i'm already working on shortening my backlog (was travelling for work last week)
<knome> :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r531 Draw top border in Thunar's sidebar (Gtk+3)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<Unit193> ...Can I just say there's been a few Xfce uploads to Debian?
<knome> no?
<Unit193> We're inbetween releases, so figured we'd come to them as we needed.
<Unit193> xfce4-session 4.12.1-6 to unstable, xfconf 4.13.4-1 to experimental as well as libxfce4util 4.13.1-1.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r532 Make use of the newly added thunar class... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-15
<Unit193> Bug 1796144
<ubottu> bug 1796144 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "ubuntu 18.04 bionic xfwm4 backport 4.12.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796144
<bluesabre> I've updated our release notes for 18.10, https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.10/release-notes, feel free to add or tweak from here
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screensaver 0.1.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screensaver-0-1-0-released-tp52009.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<knome> hmph, theoretically we want to migrate to using gutenberg on our WP theme ASAP...
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: just so you know - did an upgrade from Bionic - it installed nvidia for me
<flocculant> booting the image on kvm and everything looks as expected
<flocculant> booting to hardware and the panel etc look like Xfce not Xubuntu ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: this is what the live session looks like here on hardware (fine in a vm), installed looks fine though https://i.imgur.com/kWdgsVz.png
<flocculant> the try/install screen looks fine too btw
<bluesabre> flocculant: that doesn't look too good :/
<ochosi> the nicest aspect is that the gtk3 panel shows off which icons (yay, xfce plugins!) are gtk3-ready and use symbolic icons
<ochosi> also, obviously we don't have the symbolic setting enabled in sn-plugin, otherwise the nm-applet icon would also be symbolic, hence look ok in the panel
<bluesabre> flocculant: feel free to file a bug report. Might be some crazy timing issue
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-16
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: exo 0.12.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-exo-0-12-3-released-tp52016.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<flocculant> bluesabre: well - wasn't sure what to file it against ;)
<Spass> I thought "Final" was w frozen ISO, but all my results from yesterday's testing are gone :(
<Spass> anyway, the "top edge blinking" issue is worse now, even Window Buttons panel plugin is blinking now (on Numix, because on Greybird you can't even change windows when your cursor is on top edge)
<akxwi-dave> cheers flocculant 
<bluesabre> flocculant: ah.... good question. Maybe xfce4-settings?
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: I know you probably will have, but did you diasble nvidia before the upgrade..?  I had an upgrade bork, due to not disabling it.
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: I only had nvidia for approximately 20 minutes at the beginning of October to check and SRU fix :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke - though will check with the latest iso just in case
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1798148
<ubottu> bug 1798148 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Live session booting with xfce panel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798148
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  just tried todays final iso on a dell laptop and its booted into xubuntu desktop fine.. will try on my nvidia laptop now as well
<akxwi-dave> hahaha got bug 1798148 on my Lenovo Thinkpad with nvidia 620m card
<ubottu> bug 1798148 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Live session booting with xfce panel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798148
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: cool - sort of, glad it's not just me
<flocculant> reported yesterday's install to hardware - it's on the daily now though
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: also re the nvidia issue - bug 1797932
<ubottu> bug 1797932 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Upgrade doesn't respect proprietary driver selection" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1797932
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-17
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed linux-meta-snapdragon. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=31308d0c19733f7a3be9956a2e2d657888c708e8 (by Adam Conrad)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I don't see anything relevant in the xsession errors for the dodgy live session boot
<flocculant> not got any old iso's locally now to see when it appeared, though I can say with certainty it's since I installed here late August :p
<flocculant> iso dated 24th
<flocculant> bluesabre: while this isn't really my purview anymore, but bug 1798236 - last cycle I would have not wanting to release 32 bit if that's still a bug tomorrow
<ubottu> bug 1798236 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "gnome-software segfaults when installing debs on 32 bits/cosmic" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798236
<flocculant> I suppose it's still my purview - still in team and stuff :p
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-18
<Unit193> Hrm, I seem to have http://paste.openstack.org/show/zOO9HkWhuYOG3ef1LdY7 sitting in my clone of the docs.
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: I agree, with bug 1798236 thats kind of a killer for release
<ubottu> bug 1798236 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "gnome-software crashes with assertion failure Gs:ERROR:../lib/gs-plugin-loader.c:1698:gs_plugin_loader_pending_apps_add: assertion failed: (gs_app_list_length (list) > 0)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798236
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<akxwi-dave> ahh bugger even after two rebuilds still have 1798236 on 32bit..
 * Unit193 wonders if it's one of the Ubuntu patches, and if the Debian one works...
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<Unit193> [04:58:14] < seb128> can we get the gnome-software uploads from the queue in as 0 day SRU?
<Unit193> [05:01:02] < seb128> the one in the release pocket is screwed on i386, that has low number of users nowadays but would still be nice to have fixed in a SRU this week
<ochosi> well we can initially only release 64bit and let 32bit follow once the bug is addressed, no?
<ochosi> ah ok, that sounds promising
<Unit193> So in order to get software installation/upgrades working, one must boot the ISO, open gnome-software, and run updates. :>
<bluesabre> Yup, last word was that it was to be a 0-day SRU
<bluesabre> so boot, suffer, install, suffer, update, (hopefully not) suffer
<ochosi> so block 32 and only release 64?
<Unit193> How does that help..
<Unit193> bluesabre: Making a bad joke.
<bluesabre> ochosi: there'd not be a 32-bit respin, so it'd be blocked until 19.04
<akxwi-dave> I know most 32bit users could work their way around the "boot, suffer, install, suffer, update, (hopefully not) suffer" but there would be a backlash if we did that I personally believe.. 
<bluesabre> I've added a note about it on the release notes, https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.10/release-notes, not sure there's much else we can do
<bluesabre> ochosi: planning to bring a fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme/+bug/1795135 into cosmic... I see https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/commit/?id=52d4c333269452a03a0f1f8c527861b5cd21792d but not an equivalent fix for greybird
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1795135 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "Window buttons are not clickable at the top of the screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> Suppose folks should mark their blueprints all postponed https://dev.xubuntu.org/
<bluesabre> !team | It's release day... if anybody's around to do some final iso testing, please take a moment to do so. (In particular, 32-bit seems to be lacking)
<ubottu> It's release day... if anybody's around to do some final iso testing, please take a moment to do so. (In particular, 32-bit seems to be lacking): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/397/builds
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'll try to tackle that issue in greybird now
<ochosi> maybe we can ship those two things as tiny patches atop
<ochosi> btw, i noticed that the panel patch only adds the classes upon orientation changes, so it also needs to be initialized correctly i guess
<ochosi> in any case, the best i could do in greybird is the same flickering as in adwaita...
<ochosi> (not sure that's worth a patch)
<ochosi> in some way this is certainly a panel bug, i've added some findings to the lp report
<Spass> ochosi, I think it might be related to docked GTK3 apps, because Plank dock items are blinking, but Latte dock (Qt) is fine
<ochosi> possible as well
<ochosi> but i only notice this problem with panel at top or at the left
<ochosi> bottom and right are both fine
<ochosi> if you could test/confirm this, that'd be helpful
<Unit193> Spass: Using intelli hiding?
<Spass> Unit193, launchers are blinking with intelli on and off, no difference
<Spass> that blinking bug is something I try to "diagnose" since 17.04 - https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2397371
<ochosi> yeah, it's probably not a panel regression of 4.13
<ochosi> rather directly related to something in gtk+3
<ochosi> so now that the panel is gtk+3 (and all its internal plugins), this bug became way more noticeable
<Spass> on 18.04 it's visible only on Whisker, time, and some indicators
<Spass> Window Buttons made it much worse :/
<Spass> (on cosmic)
<ochosi> yeah, well it simply affects them now too because they are now ported to gtk+3
<ochosi> but again, please move your panel to the bottom or the right screen edge and test with adwaita
<ochosi> it should not flicker
<Spass> yes, it only affects top and left edges, so probably elements that are docked to 0x0? just guessing
<ochosi> yeah, it obviously is related to that somehow
<flocculant> is anyone around to mark them ready?
<flocculant> I see tests have been done 
<flocculant> did it 
<ochosi> thanks flocculant 
<akxwi-dave> bugger he beat me to it
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<pleia2> looks like no blog post prepped, do we have plans/highlights for one?
<pleia2> I can draft one up real quick based on past ones if needed
 * pleia2 just does it ;)
<flocculant> pleia2: in the past I've kept on top of that - but didn't this time, didn't do much at all this time
<pleia2> could use some more eyes on it, I just cherry-picked stuff from the release notes draft https://xubuntu.org/?p=4591&preview=true
<pleia2> and the site itself needs to be flipped to say we've released (knome?)
<flocculant> pleia2: looking now]
<flocculant> scans ok
<pleia2> thanks :)
<flocculant> knome: 18.10 doesn't exist on releases 
<flocculant> consequently not on download page
 * pleia2 tries to figure out how to add it
<flocculant> lol
<flocculant> check out the docs on it ...
<pleia2> ah, big question is what the description should be
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> pretty straight forward
<flocculant> ummm 
<flocculant> Bit like 17.10 except we've got some gtk3/xfce4.14 things I thought
<flocculant> but I've been rather mia 
<pleia2> same
<pleia2> docs need to be uploaded too
<flocculant> no clue - thought we were moving to not specific docs *shrug*
<flocculant> anyway - dinner time for me - back tomorrow
<flocculant> nice to see another release - thanks to all who did stuff for it :)
<pleia2> well, I added the release aside from docs link and description, and didn't click the released checkmark yet
 * pleia2 uploads wallpaper too
<pleia2> ok, I need rescue from knome now to do the rest :)
<pleia2> I need to run to the city, but have tiny laptop if need me to do things once the site is updated <3
<knome> mm.
<knome> flocculant, docs do not specify release, but since it's possible there are changes in the system/docs between releases, we still do build release-specific docs...
<flocculant> knome: ok, wasn't completely sure there obviously :)
<knome> np
<knome> updating the docs atm
<flocculant> wasn't sure how to set up new releases either obviously - or I would have done so
<knome> np
<flocculant> anyway - wandering off now - thanks :)
<knome> i've been MIA too, didn't remember it was release day
<knome> nighty!
<knome> everything related to 18.10 up now on website
<pleia2> oh good, I will do some things when I can
<pleia2> hm, I don't see it on the releases page
<pleia2> does someone want to un-draft our release notes? :)
<pleia2> it does have the checkmark now as being released, but even hard refresh of the releases page doesn't make it show up
<bluesabre> pleia2: un-drafted
<bluesabre> pleia2: I see the release now
<pleia2> oh good
<ochosi> bluesabre: where should i see the release..?
<ochosi> oh, i think i see it
<ochosi> i thought you had already published the release announcement
<ochosi> cos apart from the release page there isn't anything yet
<ochosi> (also, sorry for being pretty late to the party, seems like this time we're all a little unprepared :D)
<ochosi> bluesabre: didn't you have release notes ready at some point? (sry, lost my channel backlog today) just to extend on the blog post draft a little
<bluesabre> ochosi: release notes are ready at https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.10/release-notes
<bluesabre> ochosi: I meant the actual release page is up, different from blog post or anything else, https://xubuntu.org/release/18-10/
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> also yuck, we have some pretty noticeable issues this time
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> means we can be productive before DD opens up
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> should i start editing the "download xubuntu" page?
<ochosi> or is anybody else currently on this?
<bluesabre> I am not
<ochosi> just wondering what the plan is, or if there is one ;)
<bluesabre> I guess go for it... it seems like all the other bits are ready
<bluesabre> I lack access to the social medias to announce once we press the button though
<ochosi> well the blog post also isn't ready
<ochosi> those are the two things i see lacking currently (blog post, download page)
<ochosi> humm, i don't know our stylesheet well enough, what's the alternative to id=lts or id=lts-old?
<ochosi> knome - knooooome!
<ochosi> :]
<bluesabre> cnoma -aaaaaaaa
<pleia2> I don't know how to make the /download page to show the new release
<pleia2> the blog post is ready though
<pleia2> once someone figures out /download ;)
<ochosi> i just updated the downloads page
<ochosi> but most mirrors are still 404
<pleia2> yeah, that's normal
<ochosi> not sure if we want to drop any or if that's even easily possible on a per-release basis
<pleia2> takes them a bit to carch up
<pleia2> I'd say audit the list later and remove ones that don't sync after a few days
<ochosi> k
<pleia2> I'll publish blog post and do social media in a moment
<ochosi> bluesabre: did you read through the blog post?
<ochosi> feels we highlight only some stuff that doesn't even feel that important (although thanks for the praise on theming updates ;))
<ochosi> pleia2: mind if i add one or two highlights?
<ochosi> at least a general mention of us shipping more Xfce 4.13 components would be nice
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, it's a hard one to announce... "we updated themes and there's more gtk3 things"
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbiab
<ochosi> although it's a mix of "highlights" and "known issues" ;D
<bluesabre> :D
<pleia2> ochosi: go for it
<pleia2> I don't know anything, I just copied some things from the release notes :)
<pleia2> ochosi: feel free to hit publish when you're done and let me know
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> pleia2: ok done
<pleia2> woo
<pleia2> ok, doing the social media things now
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-19
<ochosi> thanks pleia2 
<pleia2> sure thing
<pleia2> it's really the least I could do
<pleia2> ok, done twitter, fb and g+
<pleia2> now I shall take the train home!
<bluesabre> ochosi, pleia2, thanks for taking care of the release announcement :)
* Unit193 changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | https://dev.xubuntu.org/ | Release Schedule: https://ubottu.com/y/dd | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<knome> oh right, downloads aren't automated yet
<knome> *facepalm*
<knome> ochosi, only the lts id is meaningful
<knome> foe lts's
<knome> for*
<ochosi> knome: anyway, it was all a bit best effort last night, feel free to review/check
<knome> indeed..
<knome> looks good now
<knome> it's not "hard", it's just a bit "hidden" in a way
<ochosi> yup
<knome> which i'm planning to fix "at some point"
<knome> but real work and life gets in the wa
<knome> +y
<knome> (and it "works" too, so it's not like there's a rush to fix it)
<Spass> thanks to everyone involved for a great release
<ochosi> knome: indeed, i'd say it's not at all horrible or anything
<brainwash> this one affects the Xfce session, but not the Xubuntu one bug 1798861
<ubottu> bug 1798861 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Tooltips flicker constantly in GTK3 applications" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798861
<brainwash> x-d-s sets CursorThemeSize to a value bigger than 0
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://tracker.debian.org/news/996673/accepted-xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin-021-1-source-amd64-into-unstable-unstable/
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-20
<Unit193> Dancing Dingo have a name yet?
<flocculant> Unit193: yup Deeply Dippy
<Unit193> ...Dunkin' Donuts.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: were you aware that upgrades from 18.04 on 32 bit aren't supported anymore? That being the case we should revisit the 32bit story (again) https://i.imgur.com/xzmjB5H.png
<flocculant> that's a bog standard 32 bit install - god only knows how many 'You've got to be joking's' someone like Unit193 would see if they didn't use the terminal to do things :p
<flocculant> and perhaps we should add something to the release notes for 18.04/18.10
<Unit193> flocculant: Yeah I knew that upgrades were discouraged for 32bit.
<flocculant> I didn't - unsurprisingly this cycle
<Unit193> It wasn't very loudly advertised, I believe. :/
<flocculant> we shouldn't really be giving it to people with that being the case imo
<flocculant> Unit193: right - I did read something this week in -release, just assumed it wasn't Looby Lou and us
<Unit193> LTS â normal release will fail, normal â normal should be fine.
<Unit193> flocculant: Sorry if I didn't mention it and should have, I think I had a crank in -ot but that'd have been it.
<flocculant> that makes some sense given LTS to LTS would be 2021
<flocculant> Unit193: well I'd likely not have noticed anyway this cycle ...
<Unit193> I'd say we should certainly point to the LTS for new 32bit users.
<flocculant> why? 
<flocculant> there's even less chance of a successful upgrade with 32 bit in 2021
<flocculant> fingers keep doing 2012 instead of 2021
<flocculant> we should point 32 bit users to a shop ...
<Unit193> Right, but Bionic will be supported slightly longer, I think.
<Unit193> Hah, well there is that.
<flocculant> :p
<Unit193> I think I'm going to give up on the 32bit argument.
<flocculant> lol
<flocculant> possibly have to move off of the fence here 
<Unit193> (And won't secretly hold it aginst the Xubuntu team either, if I want to still run 32bit I can just push them to Debian.  If I were sane,I wouldn't though.)
<Unit193> Eh, the fence is a nice seat.
<flocculant> getting a bit thin lately :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: noticed it on the general release note on release day
<bluesabre> didn't know who we'd have to bribe to get 32bit upgrades for (l/x)ubuntu (studio)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I sort of read it on Thursday - didn't think about it affecting us till someone mentioned it in #x
<flocculant> personally I'm now at the position where we should knock that on the head
<flocculant> I put it on the agenda for whenever slickymaster bothers setting up the next meeting :D
<bluesabre> great
<brainwash> bluesabre: is this fix good? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1754872/comments/27
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1754872 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "apt install xubuntu-desktop does not resolve dependencies properly" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<brainwash> lightdm, lightdm-gtk-greeter -> lightdm-gtk-greeter, lightdm
<brainwash> this way lightdm will not pull in unity-greeter because gtk-greeter is already checked for being installed
<brainwash> xfce4-session pulls in xscreensaver still, so moving light-locker from recommends to depends may be the only way to fix that I think
<brainwash> or making xfce4-session recommend light-locker, xscreensaver
<brainwash> maybe with xfce4-screensaver this will be solved anyway
<brainwash> ali1234: do you still think that my added upstream report is not related? bug 1771227
<ubottu> bug 1771227 in ristretto (Ubuntu) "Ristretto is the default MIME handler for PGM files, even though it cannot display them" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771227
<Unit193> I would be very much against changing recommends to depends.
<brainwash> even when light-locker is replaced with xfce4-screensaver?
<Unit193> It's just not a depend of the package, so listing it as such isn't accurate.
<brainwash> of xubuntu-desktop you mean?
<Unit193> xfce4-session, as mantioned.
<brainwash> xubuntu-desktop depends on xfce4-session, and xfce4-session recommends xscreensaver | light-locker
<brainwash> xubuntu-desktop only recommends light-locker
<brainwash> this way xscreensaver is pulled in
<brainwash> and later light-locker is installed too
<brainwash> when doing apt install xubuntu-desktop
<brainwash> making xubuntu-desktop depend on light-locker would solve this, but it's not a nice fix
<brainwash> neither is making xfce4-session recommend light-locker | xscreensaver
<brainwash> I assume that with xfce4-screensaver both light-locker and xscreensaver could be replaced
<brainwash> therefore, solving the issue anyway
<Unit193> Arguably that latter change isn't as distasteful as some others, considering what Debian does.
<brainwash> what does Debian do?
<Unit193> No xscreensaver rec, he finds upstream's attitude very distasteful.
<brainwash> no screen locker at all then? or only light-locker?
<Unit193> Only light-locker.
<brainwash> in that case ubuntu could make it light-locker | xscreensaver
<Unit193> Most certainly.
<brainwash> okay
<pleia2> if there are no objections, I'm going to go ahead and do the free storage upgrade on xubuntu-dev
<pleia2> still need to do the 18.04 upgrade (it's 16.04 right now) but I'll need more time for that and should coordinate it so knome can have a look at everything after ;)
<Unit193> Coolio, sounds great.
<Unit193> Let me know if there's anything I can help with.
<pleia2> thanks :)
<pleia2> ok, server is migrating now, they say it'll be down for 45 minutes or so
<pleia2> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<pleia2> /dev/root        48G  9.0G   36G  21% /
<pleia2> and now
<pleia2> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<pleia2> /dev/root        79G  9.0G   66G  13% /
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> 45 minutes was conservative ;) it's done
<Unit193> Yeah they tend to over estimate.
<pleia2> yeah, my personal one took longer than this one because it had a lot more data, but even that didn't take 45 minutes
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-21
<Unit193> Hrm, we're pretty much done playing with soundmenu, since pulseaudio has mpris support..
<brainwash> mmmmmh
<brainwash> xfce4-settings 4.12.1 (or just the needed patch) was never pushed to 16.04
<brainwash> despite many comments mentioning that it fixes the issue
<brainwash> it's this beast bug 1308105
<ubottu> bug 1308105 in Mythbuntu "Xfce resets TV mode to NULL when power cycled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308105
<brainwash> are SRUs really that unpopular? :D
<Unit193> Complicated?
<brainwash> I guess bluesabre just lost track of this bug
<bluesabre> brainwash: SRUs are generally painful :D
<bluesabre> Upload, wait 7 days, somebody reviews it and is nitpicky, rejects it... start again
<brainwash> now in 2018 we can just close this bug
<brainwash> it's just... this particular bug is huge (comments, heat, debian+upstream reports)
<brainwash> and then it kinda got forgotten
<brainwash> I assume that quite many installed the newer xfce4-settings from debian or later ubuntus
<bluesabre> yeah, and everybody else should hopefully be making their way to 18.04
<brainwash> more reason to upgrade! :D
<bluesabre> I lose track of a lot of things because of the hundreds of bugs that come in each week and the 1 of me (2 if you consider Unit193's handy uploading and package maintenance)
<Unit193> Yeah I really don't count, sorry. :/
<brainwash> I understand that there is plenty of work
<bluesabre> brainwash: I do appreciate the bug cleanup you've been working on over the last several weeks, thanks a bunch!
<brainwash> I'm glad that I can help
<Unit193> More than weeks..
<brainwash> the remaining reports for -meta and -default-settings have either proposed fixes or need to be discussed/approved
<brainwash> that's for 19.04
<Unit193> Flipping the order of screen lockers is pretty easy, that should happen on next merge.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Want me to push xfce4-screensaver to ppa/experimental?
<bluesabre> Unit193: please go ahead :)
<Unit193> Doooone.
<flocculant> bluesabre: added a note to the release notes re 32 bit
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfconf 4.13.6 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfconf-4-13-6-released-tp52042.html (by Ali Abdallah-3)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-14
<knome> bluesabre, as suggested by ochosi, i changed the original colors to match the 4.14 wallpaper colors ;)
<knome> sorry for the wall of text on the mailing list... https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2019-October/011850.html
<knome> Unit193, we should figure out some ircop things.
<knome> bluesabre, we should make sure somebody (or some team) is a member of https://launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow
<knome> bluesabre, this might include getting hold of dylan, which might not be easy, or making somebody from ubuntu forcefully take the ownership of that team
<bluesabre> knome: alrighty, I'll work on that
<knome> thanks :)
<bluesabre> knome: suppose I saw that mail coming, but thahks for all the time you've given to Xubuntu over the years :)
<knome> no problem
<knome> and again, not going completely away, just time to reassess what i can realistically work on
<bluesabre> Yup, makes sense
<knome> bluesabre, want to become a mailing list admin?
<bluesabre> I need to start recruiting new people into the team
<knome> well that's a constant ;)
<bluesabre> knome: not particularly, but I certainly can
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> you are now the admin of three mailing lists!
<knome> congrats
<Unit193> knome: Sad to see you take a step back, but as bluesabre said.
<knome> ten years is a long time..
<knome> Unit193, so if i leave the LP team for #xubuntu, will you handle updating the perms issues with your IRCC hat?
<knome> Unit193, also, who has owner flags for -devel and -offtopic and do we need to transfer?
<knome> oh, offopic was core channel too
<knome> Unit193, anyway, i left both the LP teams..
<Unit193> knome: IRCC has -ot, you and ochosi have the same level for here though.  You can always /msg ChanServ flags #xubuntu knome -*
<knome> i can leave them be if it might be helpful in the future
<knome> if it's indifferent, then i can remove them just as well (:
<knome> or you can think about it overnight, two or thirty and then tell me :D
<Unit193> I mean, I guess it's up to you really. :3
<knome> well, i guess i was really uncareful, you and bluesabre just accidentally got +FRs in #xubuntu-devle
<knome> oh dear me!
<knome> and removed mine :)
<knome> there can only be 4 founders per channel, chanserv told me, so i couldn't do it myself, so maybe you want to set lyz as the fourth for "backup" purposes..
<knome> and deflagged myself from ot and main too
<Unit193> :'(
<knome> don't worry, i am still mentally attached to this project
<knome> i guess the email wasn't very clear on that (even though it said so), this is not to go away completely but try to be more motivated to do the tasks i *will* do :)
<Unit193> Yeah, and it makes sense.  bluesabre: FWIW, I'm also listed as a mod on -devel and -users, so I try to at least weed out the spam.
<knome> and unless the council/team decided otherwise, i still inted to keep my team membership for example
<knome> Unit193, want to be made an admin as well?
<knome> should share the admin pass with seany
<Unit193> What I've got seems to work well, only reason I've poked is to blacklist email domains which should get a review and note in here anyway.
<knome> right
<pleia2> knome: you also handle mirrors, would be good to quickly sync up to document what criteria you use for inclusion because I always forget our process
<flocculant> knome: thanks for the fish, and for the help when I needed it before I gave up :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<knome> pleia2, basically the loose criteria is that they should seek for official approval from the ubuntu mirrors list of they mirror ubuntu too
<knome> pleia2, for the mirrors that sync xubuntu only... well i guess there is not really any criteria other than "don't be silly", eg. don't mirror with a 10M upload bandwidth
<knome> pleia2, and that they are more or less "committed" to mirroring us
<knome> pleia2, theoretically it doesn't matter what kind of syncing process they use, but if they ask, the official ubuntu way is always the best if possible
<knome> pleia2, or alternatively, don't ask me but refer to the documentation we've written at some point: https://xubuntu.org/dev/mirrors/ :D
<knome> i know i left -doc already, but i'm happy to write developer documentation for things if needed, like this
<knome> fortunately past me has saved me some work here ;)
<pleia2> oh neat, I didn't realize it was already documented :O
<knome> no worries
<knome> i didn't remember that either
<pleia2> good job past knome!
<knome> i'm pretty sure the process to add/maintain mirrors isn't documented though
<knome> but it's *relatively* self-explanatory once you get there
<pleia2> on the website?
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> let me see if I can figure it out
<knome> it's automated
<knome> lemme also open WP admin so i can help you if needed
<pleia2> ok, so it's just under Releases > Mirrors
<knome> yep
<pleia2> seems easy enough, thanks :)
<knome> and yes, one of our requirements is that the mirror uses the version numbers in their directory scheme :D
<knome> apparently...
<knome> but unless i've been mad, that's how the official ubuntu mirrors do that, so if you sync with the default method, you're good
<knome> Spass[m], hullo! (:
<knome> Spass[m], if you want to help with websites/social media, there's now a lot more for grabs ;) 
<Spass[m]> hello knome, thanks for the info, I've read your ML message and it's sad (but understandable) that you need to step back a little, I'll try to help more with Xubuntu stuff in the future, but unfortunately since I've started a new job recently I have MUCH less free time atm
<knome> yeah, that's how it goes...
<Spass[m]> but I think that my work schedule will became normal / manageable soonish
<Spass[m]> but I think that my work schedule will became normal / manageable soonish
<knome> great to hear :)
<knome> don't be afraid to ask for help
<knome> btw, the contributor documentation talks about bzr in many places, but we've moved to git..
<Spass> sorry for the double msg, that matrix bridge is whimsicalâ¦
<knome> no problem
<knome> more activity on this channel doesn't hurt anybody
<Spass> :)
<knome> so anybody else want a crash course on anything? :D
<TJ-> Is xfce4-panel supposed to be in the same session scope as xfwm4 etc?
<brainwash> TJ-: is there a problem with the Xubuntu configuration?
<TJ-> brainwash: Had an unexplained GUI crash this afternoon, since when on login there's no panel but hotkeys work so can open terminal but couldn't find any clue in logs as to why, or what was missing. I *just* this minute fixed it by logging in using the XFCE session, then log-out and use the Xubuntu session. Not sure what was going on though. took 7 hours to fix !
<brainwash> maybe something that could have been fixed by clearing ~/.cache/sessions
<TJ-> brainwash: in hunting for clues noticed that 'loginctl user-status' showd xfce3-panel in a different scope to everything else
<brainwash> leftovers (zombies)?
<TJ-> brainwash: could be; earlier I was trying to spot anything that had changed recently in .config .local but didn't think .cache would be critical
<TJ-> no zombies, I cleared back to no display-manager, and also dod "loginctl kill-session" and also kill-user as experiements
<TJ-> If it happens again I'll check that directory first
<brainwash>                   â ââ1614 xfwm4
<brainwash>                   â ââ1631 xfsettingsd
<brainwash>                   â ââ1632 xfce4-panel
<brainwash> that's what I have
<TJ-> there were a lot of old Thunar- sessions, and one xfce4-session....bak
<TJ-> brainwash: me too, now ... earlier of course panel was in a separate scope which was what started me wondering how it managed that... and if that was the reason it wasn't operating in my GUI session 
<brainwash> one can only wonder :)
<TJ-> The OCD in me struggles with not knowing for sure :)
<brainwash> session management could use more improvements
<brainwash> some things were fixed in 4.14
<brainwash> but the user can still encounter a broken session or see leftover processes after logout
<Unit193> Hrm, we missed https://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit?id=5f2aa364690ffb23428ac44f91d7401eb22191e6 it seems.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-15
<DarkTrick> Hello
<ochosi> hi
<DarkTrick> When menus are opened a click outside the menu would make the menu disappear. But the click will not be valid on the clicked position (e.g. sets a cursor there)
<DarkTrick> Is this an xubuntu-specific behavior? Or is it the underlying gui framework (like gtk)?
<guiverc> DarkTrick, I don't know, but it's not Xubuntu specific as far as I know, Lubuntu (with either LXDE & LXQt) can have openbox take the click, thus xfwm maybe on Xubuntu -- but this is pure uneducated guess
<DarkTrick> guiverc, thanks for the guess!
<ali1234> pretty sure it is gtk
<ali1234> opening a menu grabs the mouse pointer for exclusive input
<ali1234> this is also why the screensaver can't run if you open a menu and walk away from the computer
<ali1234> (and note that by "gtk" i mean "the gdk X11 backend")
<DarkTrick> is there any way to alter the behavior of that?
<DarkTrick> ali1234, â
<ali1234> not really
<DarkTrick> So the only chance is to implement a menu myself?
<ali1234> well, you could patch gdk, but that would be really difficult and not portable
<DarkTrick> "portable" means "to windows / mac" or "between distributions"? 
<DarkTrick> or do you mean a local patch for my own system?
<ali1234> i mean local patch for your system
<ali1234> anyone who wanted to run your program would also have to patch gdk
<ali1234> so clearly that is a terrible idea
<ali1234> you could try asking in #gtk on irc.gnome.org
<DarkTrick> idd, terrible idea
<DarkTrick> I tried gtk, but they are rather quiet in there
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-17
<bluesabre> Made some updates to the release notes, in case anybody wants to review or update: https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/19.10/release-notes
<Unit193> Anything I should be doing with Core, bluesabre?
<bluesabre> Unit193: if you have a link, I'll happily include it on the release note/announcement :)
<bluesabre> It's official to us ;)
<Unit193> Hah, well I was thinking anything to do with it, but yeah it's in the same place as usual.
<bluesabre> Yeah, nothing in particular that I know of
<Unit193> Cool, spinning the last one then.
<Unit193> Perhaps seems a bit odd to note the gir support, when none of it is enabled.  Though it *is* a quote..
<Unit193> Thanks for writing them, Sean.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 19.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<bluesabre> Unit193: no problem
<bluesabre> Also drafted up the release announcement, https://xubuntu.org/?p=4652&preview=true
<bluesabre> Hm, I actually don't know where the core isos are built
<Unit193> Torrent comment.......: Xubuntu Core 19.10 - amd64 - https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/19.10/release-notes  :D
<Unit193> Oh!  https://unit193.net/xubuntu/ is the landing page (or /core/), the current testing ones are in core/pending/
<bluesabre> ah, core/pending
<Unit193> Don't link there for the release announcements.
<bluesabre> right on :)
<bluesabre> Added to the release announcement
<bluesabre> Looks like the release might be around 12~13 UTC tomorrow
<bluesabre> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/407/builds for anybody that wants to run some tests. We had lots of testing from the other flavors this cycle, so if you've got a few minutes, maybe help fill in their testing gaps?
<bluesabre> I'm heading to bed, back tomorrow. Night all!
<bluesabre> Looks like there's one more respin coming shortly
<bluesabre> Polished up the release note a bit, and added some screenshots
<brainwash> bluesabre: I think that having those issues listed first is bad
<brainwash> would only makes sense if they are important and needed as reference for installation problems
<bluesabre> brainwash: that makes sense... I'll leave one of them, and demote the others to general
<bluesabre> (and done)
<brainwash> what I tried to say is that having some minor (and random) issues listed first makes a bad first impression somewhat
<brainwash> unresponsive tooltips etc.
<brainwash> the 4.14 update section should be more prominent
<brainwash> maybe put the links to  Release Announcement / Feature Tour / Changelog  in separate lines too
<franksmcb> bluesabre ISO testing results up
<Spass> do you need a little help with the website? I can add Release for example, just let me know what's the exact EOL date of Xubuntu, XX-07-2020
<pleia2> thanks Spass, do we have a release announcement post prepped?
<Spass> yeah, https://xubuntu.org/?p=4652&preview=true
<pleia2> I don't think we have a precise eol date yet, but it's usually around the 20th
<Spass> should I set 20th for now and edit if needed later?
<Spass> unless it's too early to the official Xubuntu release yet, I just saw that Ubuntu is up officially so I thought that we can roll with it :)
<Spass> bluesabre, do we have a green light to do the 19.10 website stuff already?
<pleia2> yeah, I'd use the 20th for now :)
<Spass> I played safe and went with 17th :P https://xubuntu.org/release/19-10/
<Spass> I can update the download page if needed, I just don't want to overstep my bounds here
<ochosi> Spass: go ahead
<ochosi> this is a do-ocracy anyway, we're relying on people picking up stuff autonomously
<Spass> thanks ochosi, ok, if something is broken is my fault :) I did release page - https://xubuntu.org/release/19-10/ and published Sean's post - https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-19-10-released/ and changed download links - https://xubuntu.org/download/
<Spass> *broken it's
<ochosi> but then again, if nobody does nothing it's nobody
<ochosi> 's fault, but also nothing happens ;)
<ochosi> all looks good to me
<ochosi> well done Spass 
* Unit193 changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | https://dev.xubuntu.org/ | Release Schedule: https://ubottu.com/y/ff | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<Spass> ok great, thanks to the team for an another awesome release, that was a big one (4.14!)
<Spass> anyway, time for bed, good night
<Unit193> Hrm, who do I poke about broken links now? :3
<Spass> Unit193, what's broken? :/
<sm0rux> Thanks a zillion to all you guys maintaining Xubuntu!
<sm0rux> No one mentioned, no one forgotten - but you know who you are!
<Unit193> On the download page, several mirrors.  19.10 is understandable since it's so new, but it seems (as linked), http://ftp.oleane.net/ubuntu-cd/xubuntu/18.04/release/ - http://mirrors.fe.up.pt/pub/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/ - http://ftp.wa.co.za/pub/ubuntu/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/ are broken for 18.04
<Unit193> Seems the one changed the subdomain to http://ubuntu.mirror.ac.za/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/
<Spass> yeah, seems like the mirrors should be reviewed/checked and updated
<Spass> I can do that this Sat if that's not super urgent
<Unit193> Nobody noticed/mentioned yet, so it's not super urgent I think.
<Unit193> https://paste.unit193.net/?06aa8f53f6f4103a#KMJqOqmlwytPeg0FbKGgAwDn+u8FWO8kzTHlXLPDKJg= broken list, but as I noted some might just not have sync'd 19.10.
<Spass> hmm, there's a lot of them
<bluesabre> Good evening, what'd I miss?
<Spass> hi bluesabre, release party :D andâ¦ broken links
<bluesabre> Spass: thanks for doing all that :)
<bluesabre> franksmcb: thanks a bunch!
<Spass> my pleasure :) gotta go now, bye
<Unit193> bluesabre: I was late to the release, as usual..
<bluesabre> Unit193: same here
<pleia2> updating social now
<bluesabre> thanks pleia2!
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-18
<flocculant> well done all :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-seed:: platform.eoan -> platform.focal @ http://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/xubuntu/commit/?id=17460c8cc19515b4b97c964e3bb2a063415a4460 (by Adam Conrad)
<Unit193> Now 20.04 will be our focal point.
 * bluesabre slow claps
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-19
<bluesabre> Interestingly, lightdm-gtk-greeter doesn't seem to work on the raspberry pi / 19.10
<ochosi> oh
<Unit193> You broke it! :'(
<bluesabre> slick-greeter does, so not a lightdm-specific thing
<ochosi> couldn't think of a reason why it wouldn't
<Unit193> Logs?  In /var/log/lightdm/?
<ochosi> has there even been a (fairly recent) release?
<bluesabre> (process:1518): GLib-ERROR **: 20:58:08.196: creating thread 'gmain': Error creating thread: Resource temporarily unavailable
<bluesabre> ** Message: 21:03:01.863: Starting lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0.6 (Sep 18 2018, 01:17:10)
<bluesabre> Yeah, not in a while... been neglecting it since it just worked
<bluesabre> Don't know why those messages pasted in reverse, but ok
<bluesabre> Oh, I copied the wrong pair
<bluesabre> Some messages  though
<bluesabre> Also, surprised to see both of you immediately as I said something :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://bugs.archlinux32.org/index.php?do=details&task_id=60
<bluesabre> Unit193: nice find
<Unit193> https://github.com/canonical/lightdm/issues/55
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hope that helps! :P
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.15.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-15-0-released-tp56229.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<bluesabre> Welp, if I fix it, I guess that makes my rasppi purchase worthwhile :D
<Unit193> https://github.com/ArcticaProject/arctica-greeter/commit/7aab2968b93387463d4d5d0aabf9c29a76c994b8
<Unit193> http://m.quickmeme.com/img/c0/c05a2be72ba98e91654001547183a9cdb7f5ac206d30934a03a37ee34390e9d0.jpg
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> I'm running Xfce with sysvinit and elogind if there's stuff you'd want to test there, but it's not a Pi so I don't hit that issue.
<bluesabre> ooh
<bluesabre> I do think there were some things related to elogind, so I'll keep that in mind
<bluesabre> Sure enough, that one line fixes it
<bluesabre> thanks a bunch Unit193 
<Unit193> Awesome!!
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-20
<Unit193> bluesabre: I won't be packaging any 4.15 for "early access" or early testing.
<bluesabre> Unit193: sounds fair to me
<Unit193> I'd highly not recommend putting them in the same place the 4.14 stuff is now, if you decide to package.
