#ubuntu-devel 2005-08-22
<Nafallo> paolo-: badgers have those groups :-)
<paolo-> haha.
<mpt> Nafallo: Bugs of the form "This is all completely utterly wrong" don't tend to get fixed, that's not what a bug tracker's good for
<seb128> mpt: what about saying what is wrong?
<Nafallo> mpt: what seb128 said :-)
<\sh> ok...4 hours to sleep
<\sh> g'night guys
<ogra__> night \sh
<Nafallo> \sh: goodnight darling :-)
<mpt> seb128: Hoary: "The tasks of copying music from a CD in uncompressed format, copying music from a CD in compressed format, playing music on a CD, and playing music on a hard disk are performed with ... four separate programs with four different interfaces: Nautilus, Sound Juicer, CD Player, and Music Player."
<\sh> oh Nafallo good night kiss please...without this i can't sleep *lol*
<mpt> seb128: afaict, Breezy is the same, except swapping Serpentine for Nautilus
* Nafallo kisses \sh :-)
<\sh> now I can dream ;)
<\sh> gone
<Nafallo> *s*
<Nafallo> mpt: you might play the music with sj now :-)
<seb128> mpt: bah, different issue than dnd 
<Nafallo> mpt: ... but I see what you mean :-)
<ogra__> mpt: that was not swapping anything.... you couldnt burn audio CDs at all in hoary
<Nafallo> burning wasn't in that list either :-)
<ogra__> mpt: andserpentine was the only app that didnt duplicate any functionallity, that was my main reason to promote it... 
<mpt> ogra__: I'm bothered almost as much by duplicate interface as I am by duplicate function
<ogra__> mpt: where is either of them in serpentine ? 
<mpt> Nautilus has UI for moving+copying items, renaming items, deleting items
<seb128> rhythmbox can play music and record CDs
<mpt> it can burn CDs of files
<seb128> there is some patch for CD playing
<ogra__> yes, thatworks with serpentine too... you can drag and drop audiofiles into serpentine as you can in nautilus
<tseng> hm automounting is broken in my clean breezy install
<tseng> anyone have a bug # for that
<ogra__> tseng: pitti just uploaded the fix
<tseng> haha rock on.
<mpt> So almost all the extra that's needed is radiobuttons to choose between "Data CD" and "Music CD" in the burn dialog
<ogra__> mpt: you have these buttons in the dialog that pops up if you put in a empty CD
<mpt> A dialog pops up if you put in an empty CD? :-(
<seb128> why not?
<mpt> Maybe I'm just badly organized, but I have a bunch of CD-Rs and I forget which ones are empty and which aren't
<mpt> So I put them in the computer to find out
<mpt> I don't want a dialog popping up for every one.
<ogra__> yes, isnt it nice, if you catch a empty one you can directly burn to it :)
<seb128> how is it supposed to know if you want to record some datas or some music or some photos?
<mpt> seb128: By my dragging those kind of files into its window!
<ogra__> mpt: and you want justoverwrite your beloved titles by default if you put in a CD and click "burn" ?
<mpt> ogra__: Sorry, I don't understand what you mean
<mpt> "beloved titles"?
<ogra__> mpt: how should nautilus handle your RWs that already have content ? 
<seb128> mpt what window?
<seb128> mpt: f-spot is used for photos by example
<mpt> seb128: The CD's window.
<ogra__> going your path would mean you overwrite the CDRW by default with the titles you drop into the burner window
<seb128> there is no something like "the" window
<seb128> different usecase, different UIs
<mpt> seb128: Hooray! That's the problem I'm talking about.
<mpt> It's all just putting stuff on a CD.
<seb128> not really
<mpt> ogra__: No it wouldn't, the existing items would show up in the window
<ogra__> mpt: so you prefer a app like gnomebaker ?
<seb128> f-spot is nice to manage photos for a CD
<ogra__> or k3b even
<mpt> seb128: Yes it is, but again, it annoys me that F-Spot's UI for renaming, deleting, copying etc is gratuitously different from Nautilus's.
<mpt> Not that Nautilus's UI is a work of art, it's not
<mpt> but neither is F-Spot's
<mpt> and it's the inconsistency that annoys me.
<seb128> mpt: you expect from a file manager to list exif datas, rotate photos, resize pictures, etc?
<ogra__> mpt: true, butserpentine was the most consistent choice we could make UI wise
<Cimmerian> ok, it says to report here. just installed breezy from breezy-install-i386.iso 20050816 and it didn't configure X. the xorg.conf file was empty. after putting in an old one, stuff seems to be running fine
<ogra__> mpt: else you would see gnomebaker as the default burner... there simply isnt an app like you want yet
<mpt> ogra__: I understand that, I know you're just choosing packages from upstream, that's why I didn't report a bug of the form "This is all terribly wrong"
<mpt> seb128: Via a plug-in, yes.
<mpt> seb128: Like Fontilus, but more sophisticated.
<ogra__> Cimmerian: only 20050816 ? or was that a 20050816.X ?
<mpt> Or like the "Cookies" window in Windows Explorer.
<seb128> nautilus is moving away from doing everything to use external apps
<ogra__> Cimmerian: i'm currently installing 20050816.8 wait 10 min and i can agree or not :)
<mpt> seb128: By "everything" you mean displaying documents, right?
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> it's a file manager
<mpt> seb128: And that's good
<seb128> not an exif editor
<mpt> but I'm not interested in "files" or "exif"
<Cimmerian> well, i dl'ed it from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
<mpt> I have various collections of things on my disk
<seb128> so you want to edit a photo, use f-spot or whatever
<mpt> documents, photos, music, cookies, bookmarks, e-mail messages, address book cards
<mpt> And the UI for deleting one of those things (for example) is different in every single case
<Cimmerian> it also didn't boot the 2nd stage on first boot in a vmware virtual machine, but i filed a bug on that
<Cimmerian> worked on my laptop
<ogra__> ah, ok...
<mpt> Nautilus is still showing me thumbnails of photos, and I can zoom them in and out, but I can't rotate them
<seb128> so let's trash the mailer
<seb128> and list mails as files and open then with gedit? :)
<ogra__> seb128: nautilus for mail ?
<ogra__> heh
<mpt> seb128: yes, in the long term
<mpt> but that's probably the hardest step
<seb128> I'll have switched to an another before that :)
<mpt> the easiest is making Nautilus able to burn CDs :-)
<seb128> s/another/another OS/
<seb128> I agree on that, that's file copying
<ogra__> mpt: my inbox holds more then 70000 mails... i dont think a ui like a filemanager would be right for that
<seb128> I don't agree on stuff like mail, a mailer is not a file-browser
<ogra__> s/right/usable
<mpt> sure, mail is one of the least definite examples
<mpt> because it's almost as much about documents as it is about collections
<mpt> I'd just like a "collection manager" instead of a "file manager"
<seb128> different file types, different functions, different UIs
<seb128> you don't manage mails the same way you manage photos
<ogra__> or files
<mpt> I'd certainly like to be able to apply the same emblems
<ogra__> or oggs
<ajmitch> eg, merge f-spot functionality into nautilus?
<mpt> and to drag mail messages to folders with other documents in them
<mpt> ajmitch: Have a plug-in for it
<seb128> emblems can be the same, you just have to attach the data to the file
<seb128> and that's the plan/what beagle/f-spot do
* ogra__ wonders why we have all these strangely named ttf fonts in the default install....
<ogra__> mdz: no working Xconfiguration here
<ogra__> mdz: not even a xorg.conf
<ogra__> err, sorry, a 0 byte xorg.conf
<mdz> ogra__: install or live, and have you tried to debug?
<mdz> works fine for me here
<ogra__> mdz: i386 install... just finished the install a min ago
<ogra__> hmm, reconfigure worked fine ... looking in /var/log/debian-installer
<jbailey> Are we safe to upload now without causing grief to the colony builds?
<Cimmerian> yes, 0 byte xorg.conf, that's what i got
<mdz> jbailey: no
<Cimmerian> hmm, "New updates availabe", that's a big typo smacking you in the face
<mdz> ogra__,Cimmerian: no questions asked?
<Cimmerian> well, i just let it run and when i got back, it said X could not be started
<ogra__> grmpf... is there any way to ready base-config.log ? its totally broken, one long line
<ogra__> mdz: resolution was asked
<Cimmerian> so i checked the logs and found a zero-length xorg.conf
<mdz> ogra__: that's #13523
<mdz> causing the question to be asked
<mdz> but I certainly still got a valid config
<mdz> ogra__: check /var/log/casper/post.log
<ogra__> nocasper... i386 install ....
<jbailey> mdz: Thanks.
<mdz> ogra__: /var/log/installer/*
* mdz nudges jbailey gently in the direction of /topic
<mdz> I already have one fix that I need to roll into a new CD build; if there are more to be found, now is the time to find them
<ogra__> mdz: already looked there, grepping for xorg returns nothing....
<ogra__> mdz: my best guess was to look in base-config.log 
<ogra__> but this file is totally unreadable
<mdz> ogra__: right, I meant base-config.log
<mdz> ogra__: search for xserver-xorg
<ogra__> nothing.... i guess its best to reinstall and watch the console output.... 
<mdz> what console output?
<ogra__> from base-config
<mdz> that is what base-config.log is
<mdz> the only thing you see on the console is a progress bar
<mdz> are you sure you are using the right CD?
<ogra__>  yes, .8
<ogra__> from today
<ogra__> there are no errors in base-config.log
<mdz> I got a working xorg.conf on all 3 architectures
<mdz> though it asked the mode question each time
<mdz> ogra__: did you not see the progress bar?
<jammcq_office> mdz: hey, any idea if the VIA CMOV issue in initramfs is fixed yet?  I can't find any mention of the bug in bugzilla
<jammcq_office> and i'd like to test another workstation tonight
<ogra__> mdz: sure... but on tty4 you get the output...
<mdz> jammcq_office: it's in bugzilla; let me get the bug number
<mdz> jammcq_office: it is definitely not fixed yet
<mdz> jammcq_office: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13470
<Cimmerian> Setting up xserver-xorg (6.8.2-49) ...
<Cimmerian> xserver-xorg/config/inputdevice/keyboard/model not set.  Aborting.  Reconfigure
<Cimmerian> the X server with "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" to correct this problem.
<Cimmerian> xserver-xorg postinst warning: error while preparing new Xorg X server
<jammcq_office> mdz: thanks
<mdz> Cimmerian: what language did you use for the install?
<Cimmerian> english language, norwegian keyboard
<mdz> ok, must be layout-related then
<mdz> dvorak works
<ogra__> ah, yes, i recognized the german gnome langpacks had to be downloaded, is that intentional ? 
<mdz> ogra__: unless pitti changed it recently, yes
<mdz> that is not a blocker for colony 3 though
<carstenh> hmm, via cmov issue sounds like the bug i got in -10
<ogra__> nope... just an observation
<mdz> carstenh: -10 of what?
<carstenh> mdz: kernel-image-2.6...
<mdz> X config being broken for most people is a blocker, though :-/
<mdz> carstenh: that's not an Ubuntu package
<carstenh> then -8, its the latest ubuntu version
<mdz> the latest Ubuntu kernel is linux-image-2.6.12 version 2.6.12-6.10
<ogra__> i'll do a reinstall and try to confirm that keyboard thing... my problem i, that the logfile is unusable, its a long single line with tons of escape sequences in it... i cant find a vim replace command to change it...
<mdz> and unless you're moving the initramfs from one machine to another or using LTSP, you won't encounter #13470
<carstenh> oh, i only remembered the 10, sorry.
<mdz> ogra__: less +/xserver-xorg /var/log/base-config.log
<Cimmerian> btw, the error was in base-config-pkgsel.log
<mdz> ogra__: then press 'n' until you get to the interesting bit
<ogra__> Cimmerian: i dont have this file
<ogra__> fun
<carstenh> mdz: JFYI: i got another error with .6-10
<mdz> Cimmerian: please file this in bugzilla
<mdz> carstenh: are you going to tell us what it is?
<carstenh> mdz: wait a minute
<ogra__> hmm, i'm blind...
<carstenh> mdz: "/bin/sh: can't access tty: job control turned off" sorry, i had this on another pc that is 70km away and had to search my backups for the log
<carstenh> mdz: but there was something before that
<mdz> ogra__, Cimmerian: are either of you on powerpc by any chance?
<ogra__> mdz: that less command works fo you ? 
<carstenh> something i don't remember atm
<ogra__> mdz: i386
<Cimmerian> same here
<mdz> carstenh: sorry, that isn't enough information.  file it in bugzilla if you can provide a complete report
<mdz> oh, I think I see
<mdz> Cimmerian: I think I see the problem, but the right solution isn't obvious, please do file in bugzilla
<Cimmerian> ok, will do
<mdz> send the bug# and I'll follow up there with my analysis
<jbailey> jammcq_office: I have it fixed in my tree, waiting for the okay to upload to breezy again.
<carstenh> Cimmerian: do you have a via samuel too?
<carstenh> Cimmerian: and if yes does the latest kernel-image work on your box exept the bug you talked about?
<jammcq_office> jbailey: AWESOME
<jammcq_office> jbailey: i've added my email to the bug, so i'll get a notification when you update the bug
<carstenh> hmm, let's fuck up my ubuntu-box with a on my box borken kernel :(
<jbailey> jammcq_office: 'kay.  Would you be interested in testing a deb for me?
<mdz> Cimmerian: hmm, on further examination I don't see how this happened
<jbailey> mdz: Other button. =)
<mdz> jbailey: we've been over this before
<mdz> jbailey: control+W is a VERY BAD CHOICE for a shortcut key for "close window"
<jbailey> Ayup
<mdz> when it has traditionally been "delete word backward"
<mdz> Cimmerian: any chance you could run through it again with DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE=yes?
<mdz> Cimmerian: you'll probably need to purge and reinstall it
<ogra__> mdz: for me the dpkg-reconfigure worked fine.... i think its how base-config runs the x configuration
<ogra__> but there is definately no error in my logfile... 
* ogra__ reinstalls and watches the console output of base config on tty4 now....
<carstenh> mdz: unable to find volume group 301 ALERT! 301 does not exist, dropping a shell <- the first error message
<mdz> ogra__: set DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE=yes
<ogra__> ok
<mdz> I guess you'll need to edit base-config before rebooting or something
<mdz> in /target
<jammcq_office> jbailey: sure, in about 3 hours
<ogra__> ah, i cant hand that to the installer ? 
<carstenh> jbailey: do you have something to to with initrd? if yes does volume group 301 tell you something?
<jbailey> carstenh: I do, and no... Not off hand. 
<carstenh> jbailey: i get this error-message when booting the latest ubuntu-kernel on my via samuel
<carstenh> jbailey: can you tell me which information should be appended in a bug-report in this case?
<mdz> ogra__: it needs to be set in the environment of xserver-xorg.config and xserver-xorg.postinst
<ogra__> ok
<jbailey> carstenh: Can you give me the exact text of the error message?
<carstenh> jbailey: device-mapper initializied .... \n unable to find volume group "301" \n Done. \n ALERT! 301 does not exist. dropping a shell!
<mdz> jbailey: I get something similar, but non-fatal and with "hda6" (root device) being interpreted as a volume group name
<mdz> carstenh: so I assume you're passing "root=301" on the command line
<carstenh> jbailey: and then Busybox bla... \n /bin/sh: can't access tty: job control turned off
<jbailey> carstenh: cat /proc/cmdline ?
<Cimmerian> #13532
<carstenh> mdz: i use lilo, but the is iirc nothing like this in my lilo.conf
<jbailey> Ah, lilo remapps the root= to a number.  That bug was already filed.
<carstenh> jbailey: it does not have a keyboard, wait a minute
<mdz> carstenh: boot in recovery mode, the kernel prints a line like "Kernel command line: ..."
<Cimmerian> i get that unable to find volume group "hdc2" , but the boot continues anyway
<jbailey> carstenh: No, I think that tells me enough right at the moment that you use lilo.
<mdz> Cimmerian: right, because hdc2 is a valid device name
<mdz> while 301 isn't
<mdz> initramfs and lilo are currently incompatible I think
<mdz> s/initramfs/&-tools/
<mdz> ogra__, Cimmerian: I have a patch for you guys to test
<Cimmerian> in vmware i get an error, i'll see if i can get a working setup to find what driver is needed fort that later
<mdz> ogra__, Cimmerian: just be sure NOT to run dpkg-reconfigure, since that will destroy the state we need to test
<ogra__> ok
<mdz> I guess you can always purge/reinstall xserver-xorg though
<jbailey> Cimmerian: Cool, thanks.
* jbailey goes afk for dinner/
<carstenh> jbailey: ... root=301
<carstenh> jbailey: auto BOOT_IMAGE=Linux ro root=301 is the complete output of cat /proc/cmdline
<ogra__> .....copying remaining packages .... *yawn*
<carstenh> mdz: i guess i don't need to boot the recovery-mode anymore
<Cimmerian> could the vmware error be caused by the virtual disk being scsi?
<mdz> ogra__: it would have been sufficient to purge and reinstall xserver-xorg
<ogra__> i'm nearly done now...
<ogra__> mdz: i'm at tty4 now and see a lot of debconf output.... tty1 is waiting for resolution input... anything special i should look for in the debconf stuff? 
<mdz> ogra__: I'd just like a copy of the debug output
<mdz> /var/log/base-config.log is fine
<ogra__> ok, thats should be in the baseconfig log anyway....
<ogra__> haha
<ogra__> dexconf error
<ogra__> cannot generate configuration file
<ogra__> mdz: same error as Cimmerian had
<mdz> ogra__: please send me the whole log
<ogra__> yep
<mdz> I need the debug output
<ogra__> you'll get it, dot worry , but i'm happy i could see an error finally.... less wasnt helpful at all 
<mdz> less works fine for me; I use it on base-config.log all the time
<ogra__> hmm... searching for xserver did return nothing... but as i said, my logfile is one long singel line.... with tons of escape sequences in it
<mdz> no it isn't
<ogra__> probably caused by my locale
<mdz> oh, maybe it is with the progress bar now
<ogra__> it is... you'll see it
<mdz> it's not very useful for it to store the progress bar output; it should save the aptitude output instead
<ogra__> that'd be ailly, i'd assume it logs the tty4 output, not tty1
<ogra__> aptitude has its own log here
<ogra__> s/ailly/sily
<ogra__> grmpf
<mdz> if it's all escape sequences and no aptitude/dpkg output, then it's almost certainly the progress bar
<mdz> you can 'cat' it and see
<mdz> anyway, please send whichever log has the xorg debug output in it :-)
<ogra__> i'll try as soon as the install is done
<ogra__> yup :)
<Cimmerian> yeah, when i did a grep on the file, i saw the progressbar
<ogra__> a grep ? 
<Cimmerian> yes, grep xserver-xorg base-config.log
<ogra__> oh, scrollkeeper registration seems broken as well... a lot of xml errors suddenly....
<ogra__> wow, indeed
<ogra__> yeah and piping it to less brings up rthe esc sequences....
<ogra__> fun to read that...
* ogra__ changes laptops
<mdz> ogra: can I get that debug output please?
<ogra> mdz, snet
<ogra> sent even
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with breezy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Feature freeze! | Colony 3 will release soon: test the current daily and daily-live and report here
<mdz> thanks
<ogra> had to change to a usable mailer first :) 
<mdz> ogra: please send /var/cache/debconf/config.dat also
<ogra> ok
<mdz> this log does not have the debug output from xserver-xorg.config, only from postinst
<ogra__> hmm, i exported  DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE=yes on top of base-config
<mdz> it has part of it
<mdz> xserver-xorg config note: autodetected X server driver: mga
<mdz> it ends after that
<mdz> even though that is only halfway through the script
<ogra> mdz, want ssh acess ? 
<mdz> ogra: ok
<mdz> ogra: you still have my key?
<mdz> ogra: I sent it again anyway
<mdz> ogra: please file a bug about this: xserver-xorg config note: no video driver modules found in
<mdz>    /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers
<mdz> I think it is unrelated, but seems like a bug anyway
<mdz> hmm, maybe not
<mdz> those files will never be there on initial install, but will be on upgrades
<mdz> it should probably be smarter, but not worth spending time on it right now
<ogra_> GRR
<mdz> ok, confirmed the bug
<mdz> there is supposed to be a sanity check for this but it isn't working
<ogra_> ah
<mdz> is this in bugzilla yet?
<mdz> 13532
<ogra_> no idea, only the bug Cimmerian filed i guess...
<ogra_> yup, thats it
<mdz> ogra_: ok, please test if X starts with the current xorg.conf on the system
<ogra__> eeks... /etc/X11/default-display-manager: File not found
<ogra__> startx works tough .... with 2 nice xterms
<mdz> maybe default-display-manager was broken by my --force-depends action
<mdz> but it does generate a config file with my patch
<ogra__> it worked before... so it must be you
<ogra__> :)
<mdz> uploading xorg_6.8.2-50
<ogra_> yay
<ogra_> mdz, if you dont need me anymore i'd go to bed now (working since 17h) ...
<mdz> ogra_: good night
<ogra_> mdz, could i ask for a favor ? could you trigger a new edubuntu daily if the fix is up ? 
<Keybuk> oh good, so the one remaining source import on my list of bugs turns out to be a baz bug
<Keybuk> there had to be one in there somewhere
<Keybuk> console-tools? nobody uses that anyway, right
<bytee> quick question. making a small change in a LiveCD (like removing a 2MB package), seems to be a major change in the ISO (i.e. if you rsync, it may take 500MB of changes). anyone know why?
<Keybuk> cause filesystems aren't generally designed to cause minimum changes
<bytee> thats when i thought xdelta might help; but it didn't
<mdz> ogra_: I think so, yes
<mdz> bytee: the free space in the filesystem still contains the old data
<Keybuk> xdelta isn't actually really any more or less clever than diff
<mgalvin> just a heads up... 20050616.8 i386 install worked just fine for me
<mgalvin> mouse wheel scrolling is still not enabled during the install, gotta go do that myself
<mdz> mgalvin: thanks
<mgalvin> np
* xhaker is away (Away, bnc logging)
<mpt> AndyFitz!
<jammcq> mdz: hey, jbailey gave me an updated initramfs package, I installed it. how do I re-generate the initramfs for the ltsp client?
<mdz> jammcq: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.12-6-386
<jammcq> mdz: thanks
<mdz> jbailey: we probably ought to include a script in initramfs-tools to make that easy
<jbailey> mdz: For ltsp specifically or just one in general?
<jammcq> i've got a real nice Via 1ghz machine with PXE that i'm gonna test in a few minutes
<mdz> jbailey: one in general, though it's more interesting for ltsp because `uname -r` doesn't give you the kernel you want
<jbailey> mdz: It would be easy enough to add a default of some sort to assume /boot/initrd.img-${version}.  Right now -o is the only non-optional command line.  I think I just need to come up with another option of some sort so that running "mkinitramfs" on its own doesn't suddeny cause your bootup files to get overwritten.
* mpt wonders which of the ogra_s is the real one
<jdub> mdz: what time is it there?
<mdz> jdub: 2015
<jdub> thanks
<mdz> jdub: TZ=America/Los_Angeles date
<jdub> haha
<jdub> "oh, underscore"
<jdub> :-)
<mdz> jdub: TZ=Am<tab>/Los<tab> ;-)
* mdz hugs zsh tightly
<jammcq> jbailey: if yer still awake,  your new initramfs seems to work here :)
<jdub> mdz: i fart in your shell's direction!
<jammcq> mdz: I can boot a Via 1ghz thin client, from power-on, to GUI login prompt in 1:24
<jammcq> and you haven't even tuned it for speed yet :)
<jbailey> jammcq: Awesome!  I'm glad it's working!
* jdub can't wait until he can do mkinitramfs -o /dev/biosflash
<jdub> :-)
<jammcq> heh
<jdub> hrm, ignoring lack of kernel involved in that... ;)
<jdub> linuxbios looks really sweet now
<jdub> they're using it in missiles
<mpt> It's times like these I wish wiki.ubuntu.com's FortuneCookies page wasn't read-only
<Keybuk> I love the way Dan Jacobson not only files lots of trivial bugs
<Keybuk> but duplicates himself
<jammcq> jbailey: bad news, i spoke too soon
<jbailey> jammcq: Oh?
<jammcq> apparently, my Via doesn't have a problem, but sbalneav is still having a problem with his 533mhz via
<jammcq> I sent him my iniramfs image, and it still fails for him
<sbalneav> Evening all!
<jbailey> jammcq: Do you know if it's failing in the same way?
<jbailey> And speaking of... =)
<infinity> jbailey : Fix all my bugs too!!11@@
<sbalneav> jbailey: Hey Jeff!  Yeah, failing the same way.
<jbailey> sbalneav: So it doesn't drop you to a shell or anytyhing, right?
<crimsun> hmm, is this the lvm issue?
<jbailey> sbalneav: Can you please go into an empty subdirectory and do zcat  INITRAMFS | cpio -i
<jbailey> Make sure it's empty, it unpacks in the current directory
<sbalneav> jbailey: No.  It doesnt.  OK, will do.
<jbailey> crimsun: The one where it copes poorly with VGs with -'s in it?
<crimsun> jbailey: right
<jbailey> crimsun: Or do you have a different issue?
<jbailey> crimsun: Yeah, I think I decided that if it fails I'm going to fall back to a vgchange -ay for now.
<jbailey> I'm going to sleep on it though.
<crimsun> jbailey: cool
<jbailey> It's either that or just try adding segments of it until I get a match.
<jbailey> I don't do a vgchange -ay right now because in a multipath setup, not all the paths might be available, so there's a risk of confusing lvm.
<sbalneav> jbailey: Done.
<jbailey> sbalneav: Can you look in the lib subdir and see if libc.so.6 is in there?
<jbailey> Or if it's buried in a lib/tls directory somewhere?
<sbalneav> jbailey: it's in /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6
<jbailey> sbalneav: And this is the initramfs file that jammcq sent you, or did you generate one on your own again?
<jbailey> If it's the same one, then jammcq's machine shouldn't have booted with it in that place.
* infinity was pretty sure the 533MHz C3 didn't support CMOV.
<jammcq> jbailey: just figured out the 1ghz Via is quite a bit different from the 533
<jammcq> mine supports CMOV, the 533 doesn't
<infinity> Yes, very much so.
<jbailey> Ah, via finally grew the useful instructions, eh?
<sbalneav> This is one that jammcq sent me.  But it looks as if his version of processor DOES support the cmov instruction.
<infinity> jbailey : Yes, the latest ones off the line are a whole new core and seem to be significantly spiffier in a variety of ways.
<jbailey> But still, 0.21 is supposed to unconditionally not use that.  The testcase I have here does
<jammcq> jbailey: spoken like a true canadian
<jammcq> ok, running of the 0.21 is confusing me
<jbailey> Hmm.
<jammcq> mdz says to run it chrooted to /opt/ltsp/i386
<jammcq> BUT
<jbailey> Yeah
<jbailey> Did you install the initramfs-tools in that chroot? =)
<jammcq> how would it then drop the files into /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp ?
<jammcq> jbailey: nope, but sbalneav did
<jbailey> Sounds like there's a couple steps that might need to be done then.
<sbalneav> I did it in the chroot environment.
<jammcq> when you run that dpkg-reconfigure in the chroot, where is it supposed to drop the new initramfs ?
<jbailey> The dpkg -i was done in the chroot as well?
<jbailey> jammcq: It would have to be in the chroot.  It can't see out.
<infinity> jammcq : In /boot/ in the chroot.
<infinity> jammcq : Well, in /boot/, if that's what /etc/kernel-img.conf says.
<sbalneav> yup.  Copied the .deb to /opt/ltsp/i386, chrooted there, dpkg -i initramfs-tools....deb, dpkg-reconfigure initramfs-tools.
<sbalneav> That was the sequence from my end
<infinity> That shouild be dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.12-6-686 (or whatever image you have installed)
<infinity> dpkg-reconfigure initramfs-tools won't do much for you.
<jammcq> doh
<infinity> jbailey : I want a "regenrate initramfs for every image I have installed" options.
<infinity> jbailey : Like mkinitramfs -a --force --yes-i-know-this-may-leave-me-with-no-way-to-boot, or something.
<jammcq> how does the new kernel and initramfs image get from /opt/ltsp/i386/boot to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp ?
<jammcq> which is where tftpd serves it up from
<infinity> No idea, but mdz's only been idle for 7 minutes, maybe he can explain it. :)
* infinity hasn't looked at ltsp at all yet.
<infinity> When I did tftp/nfsroot stuff back in the day, I used to do all my chroot maintenance through a wrapper that would copy stuff around as a last step.
<jbailey> infinity: What should it do?  Any file that matches '/boot/initrd.img-PATTERN' ?
<infinity> Alternately, if /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp and /opt/ltsp/i386 share a similar layout, one could bind-mound them to make sure they're always in sync.  THat could be clever. :)
<jbailey> Hates the bind mounts.
<jbailey> I'm still bitter about wiping my homedir by accident.
<jdub> *ow*
<infinity> jbailey : I wiped my home directory in the great bind mount fire of... Uhh... April.
<infinity> jbailey : But I later discovered it in another chroot.  (!)
<jbailey> Ahahaha.
<sbalneav> jbailey: yeah that was it.  Didn't even think about the sanity of reconfigureing the tools, and not the kernel.  Fixded.
<jbailey> sbalneav: Sweet!
<jbailey> I like that answer. =)
<infinity> (The kernel, in its infinite wisdom, decided that its canonical home was no longer /home, but /chroot/woody/home)
<infinity> jbailey : 'rm -rf /chroot/potato' left me with no more home anywhere, except one in the woody chroot.  Very weird behavior.
<jbailey> So hmm..  mkinitramfs --regenerate --all --no-warranty?
<jdub> jbailey: --do-not-pass-go
<jbailey> jdub: Well, I'd generally hope that it would actually work. =)
<infinity> jbailey : Oh, and to finish the story and cement your hatre of bind mounts, /chroot is a seperate fielsystem, so that rm -rf actually MOVRF my /home to another disk.
<sbalneav> Booted.  Sitting at a breezy desktop.
<infinity> MOVED, eve.
<jbailey> infinity: Ah cool.  Yeah, the separate filesystem saved me for all of my Ubuntu hacking stuff.
<jbailey> infinity: That had been mounted under my home dir.
<jbailey> sbalneav: Awesome!
<Keybuk> people who use "rm -rf" deserve everything they get!
<jbailey> sbalneav: This'll be in the archive tomorrow sometime.
<jbailey> Keybuk: I saw a great piece of embroidery at the SIPB lag at MIT: "rm is forever"
<Keybuk> though I do often wish for a "don't traverse mounts" option for rm
<sbalneav> Keybuk: Yeah, much faster to do a cat /dev/null > /dev/hda :)
<Keybuk> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda  is more traditional
<jbailey> /dev/zero
<infinity> Keybuk : A -x option equivalent to du would be nice.
<jbailey> I think pulling from /dev/null should give an EOF right away.
<Keybuk> infinity: you have a distro, get the patch-gun out
<infinity> Keybuk : But, du -x doesn't seem to respect bind mounts anyway.
* jdub still enjoys the "oh yeah, we have a distro!" realisations :-)
<Keybuk> THIS IS SO FUCKING BROKEN I ... oh, I can fix it! :D
<lifeless> jbailey: it does doesn't it ? dev null is empty, dev zero is 000's.
<fabbione> morning
<jbailey> Fabio's here, it's officially time to go to bed. =)
<fabbione> ehehhe
<fabbione> night jb :)
<Keybuk> heh, yeah, I try and use that metric too
<Keybuk> and if I miss that one, it's cron.daily
<Keybuk> Subject: dpkg_1.13.11_i386.changes ACCEPTED
<Keybuk> \o/ clearly bed-time
<infinity> Yeah, I go to bed 48 times a day, at :03 and :33.
<infinity> cron.daily rules.
<Keybuk> there's a name for that
<Keybuk> Polyphasic sleep?
<infinity> Slut?
<infinity> Oh, or that one.
<infinity> I assume that new dpkg incorporated Kamion's Replaces fix from Ubuntu?
<Keybuk> it did, yeah
<Keybuk> though I doubt it'll hit Ubuntu because it's full of scary other fixes
<Keybuk> like fixing the fact that dpkg's error unwinding has never worked
<infinity> Yeah, reading the changelog now.
<infinity> I mostly wanted to see Colin's fix in Debian, so tjhis is good enough for me.
<infinity> It also means that dselect will finally do the C++ transition.  \o/
* infinity goes to hunt Matt's "broken /dev/tty* in livefs cloop" issue.
<jdub> mdz: yes :-)
<jdub> mdz: and you'll need to use it if you want to chat now (going away from terminal)
<Treenaks> jdub: am I on planet ubuntu yet? :)
<pitti> Morning!
<pitti> fabbione: Herbert agreed to do the Hoary kernel as well
<fabbione> pitti: ah cool... i was going to start today on it
<fabbione> but that's EVEN SO MUCH BETTER :)
<pitti> hehe
<infinity> pitti : Oh, given our current stance on mozilla-* security, shoudl i just close 12865?
<pitti> infinity: a patch system would still be nice, but this would rather be a bug for the debian maintainer, I guess
<pitti> infinity: doing it on our own would be just messy...
<fabbione> pitti: i am still missing a CAN number...
<fabbione>         . Fix x86_64 memleak from malicious 32bit elf program.
<fabbione>         (CAN-2005-XXXX)
<pitti> fabbione: I will ask for one, but don't delay the upload just for that
<fabbione> i need to wait for mdz to release colony 3 anyway
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> CAN requested
<fabbione> thanks
<siretart> morning
<pitti> Hi siretart 
<pitti> Moin JaneW 
<siretart> hm. can anyone confirm this is indeed an arch repository? http://pkg-lyx.alioth.debian.org/devel/
<JaneW> moin moin pitti ;)
<siretart> I'm having problems checking it out
<siretart> :(
<Lathiat> anyone know that recently new ext3 driver for windows
<Treenaks> siretart: Guessing archive format as tla 1.0. This is normal with old archives, you can ignore it unless other errors occur.
<Lathiat> ah i foudn it
<siretart> Treenaks: I always get 'PANIC: Invalid archive given', when trying to rbrowse. how to check it out?
<JaneW> pitti: can I ask you about PrintingRoadmap quickly, it seems agreed that the majority of it will be deferred, but mdz said that 'the one piece of that which we should attempt is hplip support out of the box' Do you know if anyone can or will do that in time for Breezy?
<fabbione> pitti: can you please ask Herbert to check this patch: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2005/07/msg00231.html ?
<Treenaks> siretart: that works for me
<Treenaks> siretart: but baz get telsl me:
<Treenaks> archive not registered: rweir@ertius.org--2004-debian
<fabbione> pitti: we are affected by that problem and it's a one liner that would fix raid memory leak
<Treenaks> siretart: so there's a redirect somewhere?
<Treenaks> siretart: but rweir _sounds_ like bob2, so ask him :)
<siretart> Treenaks: I have no idea. I try to fix lyx for ubuntu, and found that. I hoped that would be the archive of the lyx packaging team
<siretart> bob2: around?
<pitti> JaneW: I can't test it, don't have such a printer; in theory, doko, daniels, and mdz can do it
<JaneW> pitti: ok, in the mean time I'll move the rest to deferred...
<infinity> daniels doesn't have a printer.
<pitti> not any more? hm, ok
<pitti> he had in the past
<infinity> Not since he moved out of his father's house.
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> I don't have a printer any more since my flatmate moved to Switzerland
<pitti> fabbione: I'll check
<Treenaks> I have 2 broken printers..
<pitti> fabbione: ah, got the last CAN, I mail you
<fabbione> pitti: perfect
<doko> pitti: yes, I can do that ... (I should have been quiet about my printer :-/)
<jane_> got disconnected - mutter
<jane_> doko: are you prepared to do it, and do you have capacity? (please please please)
<jane_> did colony 3 release yet? (the topic implies not)
<doko> jane_: who can say no to that ... 
<jane_> doko: yay, thanks *hug*
<jane_> doko: can I mark it as WIP? (chancing my luck now! *duck)
<doko> jane_: yes
<jane_> doko: *bounce* you rock
<jsgotangco> hi sabdfl
<pitti> Moin seb128
<pitti> elmo: please sync pstotext
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> sjoerd: here by chance?
<sjoerd> pitti: yeah
<pitti> cool
<pitti> darn, where's daniels
<pitti> anyway
<pitti> sjoerd: yesterday, seb128 and me talked again about not restarting dbus and hal on upgrades
<pitti> sjoerd: I was finally convinced about it
<pitti> sjoerd: what would you think about the Debian side?
<sjoerd> about not restarting it you mean ?
<pitti> yes
<pitti> more and more upstreams use dbus, and we can't keep up with patching them all
<sjoerd> it sucks, but your right
<pitti> even right now we only patched g-v-m and update-notifier
<pitti> gvfs, panel, etc. still break
<seb128> pitti: <daniels>       i'm trying not to ship *any* .la's
<seb128> pitti: (dbus.la bug)
<pitti> seb128: ah, ok, so on purpose
<seb128> yep
<seb128> you can read the changelog, I put them back to fix some build, and out again and rebuilt n-c-b/hal
<seb128> if an another .la mention it we just have to push a rebuild
<seb128> (was just to mention it, didn't want to break your dbus/hal discussion)
<pitti> seb128: ah, I read it again, thanks
<seb128> I comment on bug?
<pitti> seb128, sjoerd: well, we all seem to agree about dbus
<pitti> seb128: let's just close it as NOTABUG then
<seb128> I'll ask if there is a .la mentionning it, that would mean a package to rebuild
<seb128> but right
<seb128> sjoerd: you agree with not restarting?
<sjoerd> I agree with the fact that we can't patch everything out there...
<seb128> right
<sjoerd> i still think that it's a stupid mentality from dbus upstream :)
<pitti> sjoerd: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13312, btw
<pitti> sjoerd: I agree, it's a lazy school of thought
<pitti> sjoerd: I don't like it either, but reality is just against us, I'm afraid
<sjoerd> yup
<seb128> I kind of understand them ... they prefer to put this amount of work to something else
<sjoerd> so for dbus 0.3x and hal 0.5.x i'll just follow ubuntu's path of not restarting...
<sjoerd> probably have some time next week to sink ubuntu's packages into debian experimental again..
<seb128> sjoerd: do we have an i386 build now? :)
<pitti> sjoerd: ok
<sjoerd> seb128: nope, just sparc and ppc
<seb128> bah
<pitti> sjoerd: I can build i386 packages on my server if wanted
<pitti> but isn't experimental autobuilt now?
<seb128> not for i386 apparently
<sjoerd> apparently not
<sivang> morning all
<pitti> sjoerd: ok, ping me, I'll build them
<pitti> Hi sivang 
<infinity> I should set up an i386/experimental buildd.
<seb128> pitti: so many people use i386 that nobody bother to do an autobuilder for it :)
<sjoerd> every dd who's interested can do a binary-only build for x86, i don't really care 
<sivang> hey pitti , what's up?
<infinity> AFAIK, there isn't one.
<sjoerd> apparently nobody cared enough for the dbus experimental package :)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> hi JaneW
<JaneW> hi seb
* pitti tests amd64 live CD, brb
<sjoerd> seb128: the suckiest part of it all is that more dbus services will come and if one of them dies/restarts your complete desktop could misbehave
<sjoerd> but well, can't fix the whole world :)
<seb128> I've tried to argue with upstreams/redhat/suse guys some days ago
<seb128> hitting a wall is the same
<sjoerd> yeah i know
<JaneW> doko: OOLocalisation is one of the only pending goals left. I see you are waiting on responses etc, but do you think anything will get done on this in time for Breezy? or is it another defer candidate?
<doko> JaneW: I'll update the status, that is mostly done
<JaneW> doko: great, want me to do it for you? I am busy editing...
<doko> JaneW: ok, I want to talk with carlos first
<JaneW> doko: ok
<siretart> infinity: do you know about libdps-dev? In debian, it is build by xorg, I miss it in breezy
<siretart> infinity: I found a package in universe (pstoedit) which build depends on it, perhaps there are more
<infinity> siretart : It's gone, completely, including upstream.
<infinity> siretart : Anything build-depending on it should be taught not to.
<siretart> i.e. be removed?
<infinity> siretart : Debian won't have it as soon as they move to Xorg 6.9 or 7.0, 6.8 was the last release that had it.
<siretart> hm
<infinity> siretart : There is no free implementation of DPS in any xserver, so any client linking to that library can't actually USE it to display anything anyway.
<infinity> siretart : Teach the packages to not use those features, and you're golden.
<seb128> pitti: xorg issues with your amd64 liveCD?
<infinity> siretart : At a quick glance, pstoedit doesn't actually appear to directly link or call anything in dps, so you should be able to just drop the build-dep.
<siretart> infinity: I try with pstoedit
<pitti> seb128: yes, that stopped me pretty early
<pitti> seb128: mdz fixed that last night, IIRC
<seb128> pitti: yeah, I'm waiting for a new CD, I had the same issue with the amd64 liveCD this night
<pitti> Hi chmj 
<pitti> chmj: I checked the bluez-utils vuln again, warty and hoary are not affected
<pitti> chmj: can you please add the CAN number to the changelog on your next upload?
<siretart> infinity: what do you know, you are perfectly right!
<siretart> infinity: thanks!
<lifeless> is breezy considered dogfoodable now ?
<pitti> lifeless: upgrade should work reasonably
<infinity> lifeless : Works For Me(tm)
<seb128> is there an "official" way to make an /etc file not a conffile?
<seb128> or should I hack <package>/DEBIAN/conffiles?
<Mithrandir> seb128: uhm, why do you want to do that?
<seb128> because the gdm Debian maintainer does it for a file
<seb128> and we have a dpkg question on upgrade
<pitti> seb128: usually files shipped in debs are conffiles
<seb128> yeah, but I'm not going to argue with the Debian maintainer
<pitti> seb128: if not, you need to ship it in /usr/share, and cp it in the postinst
<seb128> and hoary has this file as not a conffile
<JaneW> has anyone seen  Unfrgiven around recently?
<seb128> the gdm Debian package does "perl -pi -e 's#^/etc/gdm/factory-gdm.conf\n##sm' debian/gdm/DEBIAN/conffiles
<seb128> "
<pitti> seb128: just do [ -e /etc/file ]  || install -m 644 /usr/share/gdm/file /etc/file
<pitti> or so
<seb128> pitti: as ugly as the conffiles hack imho :)
<pitti> seb128: the best way would be to transition it to become a conffile
<pitti> that would solve the problem once and for all
<pitti> but is tricky to do
<seb128> "transition"?
<pitti> seb128: hard because you can't tell whether it was changed
<pitti> seb128: however, you can hardcode the md5sum of the unmodified file into the preinst
<pitti> seb128: so check the md5dum in preinst, and if it matches, just delete it
<pitti> seb128: then you won't get a question if you never touched it
<pitti> seb128: however, that only works if the file didn't change too often in the past
<seb128> right
<seb128> not the case for this one
<\sh> morning
<seb128> it contains the gdm config
<seb128> so every time an option has been changed it moved
* pitti fixes conffile question of hotplug
<seb128> I'll do the same as the Debian package probably
<pitti> seb128: so the perl hack is done in debian/rules? or in postinst?
<seb128> debian/rules after dh_installdeb
<pitti> seb128: ah, so after DEBIAN/conffiles is generated... how ugly
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> seb128: Debian should fix this - this file should be a conffile
<seb128> yeah, Debian should have a correct gdm package
<seb128> ie: not outdated for 1 6 month
<seb128> and with a proper packaging and not all the changes to the diff.gz
<pitti> seb128: ah, I remember, this was a messy package... :-(
<seb128> yeah, that's still
<Lathiat> blah the installer decided to use lilo instead of grub and then the boto breaks due to the lilo/initramfs thing
<Lathiat> Anyone noticed the first time DHCP happens in the installer it never works for them? same thing happens on the livecd, it never works i retry or do it manually an dit works instantly
<chmj> pitti: pong, ok will do
<pitti> $ sudo dpkg -P --force-depends --force-remove-essential login
<pitti> uuh...
<mvo> Lathiat: dhcp seems to work fine here on my test-install
<Lathiat> mvo: hrm
<pitti> Lathiat: for me, too
<Lathiat> happens every single time without fail
<pitti> mvo: btw, I still don't get a correct position for the u-n notification
* Lathiat wonders if his dhcp server is being funny
<pitti> mvo: it points too far to the left, and the arrow is at the standard position
<pitti> mvo: I though you fixed the arrow?
<mvo> pitti: what version? I uploaded 0.40.4 yesterday
<pitti> mvo: oh, ok, I'll upgrade
<pitti> mvo: I though you fixed this in n-d
<mvo> pitti: yes, I fixed the arrow, the next problem is to figure where to actually point to :)
<mvo> and that needs to be done in u-n
<pitti> mvo: updated, restarted, still wrong position
<mvo> during startup it give some funny values when the widget is asked for it's position (-1,-1;0,0,-1,1187 ...)
<pitti> mvo: want a screenshot?
<mvo> pitti: yes please (you restarted u-n)?
<pitti> mvo: yes, killall and restart
<mvo> hrm, bad. a screenshot would be nice. what arch?
<pitti> mvo: amd64 :-)
<pitti> mvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/shots/u-n-pos.png
<Treenaks> pitti: Maybe there are x-chat updates?
<Treenaks> *hide*
<Lathiat> the notifier dialogs dont scale for DPI
<Lathiat> cus when my DPI is at 120 they almost hit the edge
<Lathiat> possibly because its being squashed up against the side to try stick the arrow on the udpate notifier
<Lathiat> without moving the arrow
<mvo> pitti: I assume your notification-daemon is at the latest version?
<pitti> mvo: oops, I have 0.2.2-0ubuntu1 
<pitti> that was a test version
<pitti> sorry
* pitti downgrades
<mvo> pitti: no problem 
<seb128> evince really rocks
<mvo> Lathiat: there are still arrow placement issues when the position is e.g. at the very, very far end of the right-hand side
<seb128> the text selection is rocking
<mvo> Lathiat: (and on a lot of other places too)
<pitti> mvo: works now, rock! (and sorry for the noise)
<mvo> pitti: no worries :)
<seb128> grumpf
<seb128> pitti: does "gdmflexiserver --xnest" still open this selection list ofr you?
<pitti> seb128: right now I only get an error dialog "new display could not be started"
<srijith> read from forum that you guys are looking for laptop testers
<srijith> is that still on or are there enough tesrers?
<srijith> s/tesrers/testers
<pitti> seb128: if I choose "new login" from the menu, I still get the selection list
<seb128> grumpf
<seb128> oh right
<seb128> interesting
<seb128> thanks :)
<seb128> I was trying with --xnest
<mdz> seb128: new live CDs building now
<seb128> mdz: cool
<mdz> should fix the X issue
<mdz> I don't think I will stay awake for them, though
<seb128> I'm ready to sync/try :)
<mdz> but I would like to know if they work for you
<seb128> mdz: when should the new image be available?
<mvo> mdz: is it a know problem that the language-pack-gnome-en-{base} are missing on the install cd?
<mdz> mvo: dunno, ask pitti
<mdke> after a dist-upgrade from colony 2, I get 4 grub entries instead of 2, 2 for the 2.6.10 kernel, and 2 for the 2.5.12 kernel: is this problem known?
<mdz> seb128: the live builds are fairly quick; should be ~10m
<pef> hi
<mvo> mdz: I just did a test-install and it hangs because it wants to fetch them from the net
<mdz> it will be 20050817
<seb128> cool
<mdz> mvo: why hangs?
<mvo> mdz: for some reason a apt-get update failed and no gpg signatures are available anymore. then aptitude prompts and the installer can't cope with that
<pitti> mvo: ah, I'll seed them
<mvo> (prompts for unauthenticated packages)
<mvo> pitti: thanks
<pitti> mvo: hm, the powerpc install cd is already full, so there's only room for gnome-en
<pitti> mvo: (gosh, there was space before, who filled it???)
<mdz> pitti: first come, first served ;-)
<mvo> pitti: I didn't :) (/me whistles innocently)
<mvo> mdz: I guess the real fix is to make libapt smarter about failed updates? (recheck the available signatures against a failed download or make the whole operation either all or nothing)?
<pitti> mdz: ok, I throw some other langpacks off the powerpc CD, it does not make sense to have the base, but not the gnome translation
<mdz> mvo: the update should fail if the .gpg retrievals failed for a non-transient reason
<mvo> hm, why does base-config try a aptitude update before it has network...
<mvo> mdz: ok, I have a look at this today
<seb128> mdz: is that ok to package the new djvulibre? It has a new soname, but nothing out of evince use it, and the current evince what a new version of nothing (we can also build evince without djvulibre)?
<seb128> (after colony 3)
<mdz> seb128: does evince require the latest djvulibre?
<seb128> w/what/want/ on my previous sentence
<seb128> "evince wants a new version of nothing (we can also build evince without djvulibre)"
<mvo> hm, stage2 seems to not bring up the network but tries to get various stuff from the net
<dholbach> hey
<pitti> Hi dholbach 
<jsgotangco> hi
* mvo waves to dholbach 
<dholbach> hey martin, michael, jerome! how are you guys? :)
<ogra_> wohoo dholbach
* jsgotangco pimps Tecra M2 which arrived today
<dholbach> oliver! :)
<sivang> mdz: are you ok with me trying to patch default applets for lpint until UI freeze? 
<siretart> huhu dholbach!
<sivang> dholbach: hey :)
<mdz> seb128: live CD builds are up
<dholbach> hi everybody - i've good news: i'll bring my thesis to printing and binding today :-D
<mdz> sivang: applets, such as which?
<jdub> elmo: planet update please :-)
<ajmitch> dholbach: great! :)
<sivang> mdz: those that come with the gnome-panel package, mostly
<pitti> mvo: seeding completed
<jsgotangco> nice
<siretart> dholbach: congratulations!
<siretart> :)
<dholbach> thanks :)
<pitti> dholbach: contrats, great to hear!
<pitti> dholbach: when you will defend it?
<dholbach> pitti: september, 2nd
<jdub> dholbach: woohoo!
<mvo> dholbach: I'll be in the crowd that listens
<Nafallo> jdub: you got my mailinglist-request? :-)
<jsgotangco> dholbach, i will slay a goat and burn it as an offering to your success heh
<jdub> Nafallo: yes, will sort out when ig et home tonight
<Nafallo> jdub: kewl :-)
<dholbach> pitti: i'll move to berlin, work on another project with my dad and prepare the presentation in between - so i'll still be busy :)
<dholbach> jdub: mine too? :)
<jdub> dholbach: same answer :-)
<dholbach> jsgotangco: that's too kind of you :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: well done on getting it finished
<dholbach> i'm so relieved already
<jsgotangco> finishing a thesis is always feels good
<infinity> mdz : If you're building livecds based on the images that built 3 hours ago, you're probably missing your /dev/tty* fix, which I think was uploaded after that.
<jsgotangco> (of course there's still the defense..but)
<Nafallo> dholbach: nice one indeed :-)
<mdz> infinity: I put a workaround into casper
<sivang> mdz: for starters; clock, fish, notification_area, wncklet
<infinity> mdz : Ahh, if it's fixed in casper, then perhaps I should pull the makedev fix.  This does only affect livecds, afterall.
<seb128> mdz: cool, /me sync
<mdz> infinity: it's sort of a corner case, but I think it's broader than live CDs
<mdz> I'm not sure where best to fix it at this point
<mdz> but it's time to sleep
<mdz> sivang: let's talk about it in 7+ hours
<ogra_> can someone explain me how i trigger a cd build for edubuntu ? 
<seb128> mdz: about djvulibre?
<seb128> mdz: let's talk about it later if you want, there is no hurry that's for after colony 3 anyway
<jdub> mdz: were you intending to call earlier?
<mdz> ogra_: you ask me, or colin when he isn't off getting married
<mdz> seb128: yes, let's talk about it after I've slept
<ogra_> mdz, is this much work ? or could yu do it? i'd like to benefit from thecolony base
<mdz> jdub: I'd never successfully gotten in touch with you via that number and was wondering if I should delete it from my directory
<sivang> mdz: sure, thanks
<mdz> ogra_: there is no colony 3 yet
<ogra_> oops
<\sh> grmpf..what was the daily iso download url again?
<ogra_> ok then...
<sivang> mdz: night :)
<mdz> night all
<ogra_> night mdz 
<dholbach> good night mdz
<jdub> mdz: oh. i don't roam.
<\sh> g'night mdz
<ogra_> \sh, cdimage.ubuntu.com
<mvo> good night mdz
<\sh> ogra_: thx
<jsgotangco> night
<seb128> 'night mdz
<fabbione> elmo: can you please lart katie to stop spamming me with that UNACCEPTED message
<fabbione> night mdz
<dholbach> hi fabbione :)
<fabbione> hi dholbach 
<\sh> ok...putting windwos xp again on this baby...and then trying new daily iso...for resizing ntfs partition
<sivang> \sh: so now you are logged from a laptop ?
<\sh> sivang: I'm on my hp nc6000
<\sh> sivang: and I'm playing with the portege
<volvoguy> \sh, don't say that word. :)
<ogra_> playing or protege ? 
<volvoguy> portege.
<volvoguy> the bane of my existance.
<seb128> trying the liveCD, brb
<sivang> volvoguy: Aaaron! I've never caught you on IRC before :) How have you bee ?
<sivang> s/bee/been/
<\sh> volvoguy: believe me...it's just like a good looking girl...it looks nice..but it's a nasty b*tch sometimes ,-)
<volvoguy> sivang, i'm still alive. still sore with back problems. trying to get back into the swing of things with the laptop and art teams.
<volvoguy> \sh, i'm just bitter. i'm not even remotely close to getting Breezy installed on mine.
<\sh> volvoguy: which one u have?
<\sh> the S100?
<sivang> \sh: what's portege ?
<volvoguy> \sh, the Portege S100
<volvoguy> sivang, Toshiba laptops.
<\sh> sivang: toshiba portege r200
<sivang> volvoguy: ah, cool
<volvoguy> it's a kick-butt machine, but almost a little too  new for ubuntu thus far. 
<\sh> volvoguy: well..u have a cdrom at least
<volvoguy> sata drives connected to an intel chipset that does software raid (or some such thing)
<jdub> volvoguy: have you checked the bios for sata/pata compatilibity mode options
<volvoguy> \sh, yeah. the colony 2 live cd doesn't start x, but i just downloaded a nightly to try.
<\sh> volvoguy: u see...I don't have one...;-) I just borrowed an usb dvd from a friend :)
<pitti> jdub: I'm going to change dbus and hal now to not restart on upgrade; any objections?
<volvoguy> jdub, the bios warns that all the data on the drive will be wiped if i convert it to a non-raid device. i could try that, but i thought part of the goal was to try to get breezy working on these out of the box - ie. leaving windows and resizing the NTFS partition.
<\sh> volvoguy: forget it..the first thing i did...remove windows, cause resizing wasn't working
<\sh> volvoguy: but I'll try resizing just now with new daily iso...
<volvoguy> \sh, at the moment that's irrelevant because the installer doesn't recognize a hard disc. i could wipe it, change it to a non-raid disk, install windows and then start from there. 
<\sh> do it :)
<jdub> pitti: !!!
<\sh> ok..lunch time...laters
<volvoguy> if jdub or the laptop leaders give me the ok, i'll start right now. :)
<Lathiat> mm
<Lathiat> sata
<Lathiat> i bet
<volvoguy> Lathiat, yep. it's a sata drive.
<Lathiat> laptop.. raid.. ? wah?
<volvoguy> Lathiat, that's what i said. without removing the DVD/CDRW drive, you can add a second hard drive and do raid 1 or 0.
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> crack smoking
<volvoguy> i think i'll save that for the next major release. :)
<Lathiat> so how will making it non-raid work?
<jdub> it's the sata/pata stuff that really matters
<volvoguy> the theory is that it's the new-fangled Intel software raid and chipset that is making the drive invisible to the installer.
<Lathiat> ah
<volvoguy> there are only two options in the bios for the HDD - RAID or JBOD. 
<jdub> hrm, pia had one of these monsters
<Lathiat> love the technicaly terms there
<Lathiat> JBOD
<volvoguy> PITA is what I say. :)
* jdub tries putting his laptop to sleep, fairly sure that it won't wake up
<volvoguy> actually, i popped in here for a quick script question. i have a folder of svgz files that i want to convert to (gunzipped) svg files. any idea how i could do that recursively over a couple folders with hundreds of files? 
<Mithrandir> find -name \*.svgz -print0 | xargs -0 gzip -d ?
<volvoguy> lemme try. 
<volvoguy> example result: gzip: ./zip.svgz: unknown suffix -- ignored
<Mithrandir> try to add -f ?
<Treenaks> add -Ssvgz
<Treenaks> or -S""
<volvoguy> to which part?
<ogra_> the end
<Treenaks> volvoguy: the gunzip/gzip part
<volvoguy> -f gives same results.
<Treenaks> volvoguy: try the -S
<volvoguy> same.
<volvoguy> like so, right? "find -name \*.svgz -print0 | xargs -0 gzip -d -S""
<ogra_> take rather the -Ssvgz
<volvoguy> like so? "find -name \*.svgz -print0 | xargs -0 gzip -d -Ssvgz" ?
<ogra_> yup
<volvoguy> same.
<Treenaks> unknown suffix?
<ogra_> ah...
<ogra_> -S .svgz
<volvoguy> gzip: ./zip.svgz: unknown suffix -- ignored
<Treenaks> volvoguy: what ogra_ said
<volvoguy> that stripped the extension completely.
<ogra_> did it also unpack it ? 
<volvoguy> they're indeed unpacked though. 
<ogra_> :)
<volvoguy> so what's the easy way now to add ".svg" to the end?
<volvoguy> remember, i'm a graphic designer. using my right brain makes my head hurt. :)
<volvoguy> i don't suppose it's as easy as "mv * *.svg"?
<Treenaks> find -type f -exec mv \{} \{}.svg
<Treenaks> I _think_
<volvoguy> find: missing argument to `-exec'
<Treenaks> uh yes
<Treenaks> add \; to the end of that
<Treenaks> find -type f -exec mv \{} \{}.svg \;
<volvoguy> beautiful!
<volvoguy> thanks guys! :)
* Treenaks hands volvoguy TFM
<Treenaks> ;)
<volvoguy> :) thanks. 
<volvoguy> while i'm in here, are any of you developer types close enough to the laptop testing team to give me the go-ahead to wipe this hard drive and start from scratch? 
<dholbach> see you later
<jsgotangco> bye daniel
<dholbach> bye jerome :)
<volvoguy> guess not, but that's ok. i'll just keep an eye on the bug i filed. thanks for the file manipulating help Treenaks. i'm off to sleep. 
<volvoguy> g'night all! :)
<seb128> mdz: the amd64 liveCD works fine for me now
<seb128> (the french version is no really frenchy though)
<ogra_> seb128, the gnome-langpacks arent on the CD yet...
<seb128> I've noticed 
<seb128> pitti: I've not really debugged but GNOME volumes have issues on the liveCD
<pitti> ogra_: fixed in the seeds
<seb128> the CD was named "cdrom" instead of "Ubuntu 5.10 amd64" by example
<ogra_> oops
<pitti> seb128: ok, I'll look at this
<daniels> pitti: ping
<pitti> Hi daniels 
<seb128> hey daniels
<daniels> hi all
<ogra_> mvo, looks like #13496 still occurs.... jsgotangco just tried a test install... i'll try to check if its still this bug, burning....
<daniels> pitti: i'm not really convinced on the dbus thing to be honest
<pitti> daniels: I don't like it either
<pitti> daniels: but seb128 and some other guys finally convinced me yesterday
<pitti> daniels: it's ugly, but reality is against us :-(
<Lathiat> what dbus thing?
<daniels> Lathiat: not restarting it on upgrades
<Lathiat> ah right
<daniels> pitti: but then we get horrible cases like where you can't open new connections to the bus on some upgrades because it's too old
<Lathiat> sounds like an idea to me
<ogra_> pitti, daniels, err, how am i supposed to add a service to system.d without restarting ? 
<seb128> I don't like guys, but I've enough to fight with upstream for that and we are all busy enough without having to patch all over the place against upstream
<seb128> s/like/like that too/
<pitti> ogra_: just start the service itself, e. g. /etc/dbus/event.d/20hal start
<daniels> seb128: g-v-m upstream at least seemed willing to take our patch if it was clean, and gnome-power already got fixed
<ogra_> pitti, thanks :)
<pitti> daniels: hm? I recently talked to g-v-m upstream, and they rejected it
<ogra_> daniels, ??
<daniels> pitti: on utopia-list?
<seb128> daniels: previous g-v-m upstream, fejj is ... no comment
<daniels> ogra_: hm?
<pitti> I got a whole bunch of "you are wrong" messages...
<ogra_> daniels, gnome-power got fixed ? 
<daniels> seb128: fejj maintains it?
<pitti> daniels: yes
<seb128> daniels: he's doing the work now yeah
<daniels> ogra_: desrt said he was writing code to fix it, at any rate
<seb128> daniels: they moved the evo team on the desktop
<ogra_> daniels, i package it... 
<daniels> seb128: oh.  yeah, I see.
<daniels> seb128: fair enough then.
<ogra_> daniels, hughsie (upstream) didnt say such a thin...
<pitti> daniels: desrt agreed for battery applet, but he is opposed to it, too
<ogra_> thing
<daniels> ogra_: sorry, too late at night.  -battery-applet, not -power.
<pitti> daniels: but gvfs and panel still break
<seb128> daniels: walters complained too on #gnome-hackers some days ago
<ogra_> ah... i was starting to get worried :)
<pitti> ogra_: btw, for a true .service you don't need to restart dbus at all, it will just work
<ogra_> pitti, ok... i took NM as example for my postinst....
<seb128> daniels: and apps will keep using dbus for new stuff and we will have to keep patching other stuff, and get upstream angry when then get bugs due to that, etc
<Lathiat> pitti: that doesnt suit all applications
<pitti> Lathiat: "that" == ?
<daniels> pitti: eep
<daniels> seb128: yeah, I saw the scrollback on -hackers
<Lathiat> pitti: activating a service when needed
<daniels> seb128: i suppose it's a fair cop if we've decided we were fighting a losing battle, I was just really hoping we'd ... well, not lose it
<seb128> daniels: imho we have better to do that fighting for months on that
<pitti> Lathiat: right, e. g. hal is not a .service, so it has to start/stop itself
<Lathiat> e.g. avahi, wants to be running all the time because it needs to respond to its name, etc
<Lathiat> not just when an application wants it
<seb128> daniels: we are all busy, upstream/redhat/suse guys are against us ... that's not an "easy to win" one
<daniels> seb128: mmm
<daniels> seb128: yeah
<pitti> daniels: I hoped the same
<pitti> daniels: it reminds me of win2k: "one reboot for each change" :-(
<daniels> seb128: i just think this whole 'dbus is a core service omg' thing is complete crack, and a stupid cop out that just lets you be lazy and write terrible code
<Lathiat> its worse nwo i isntalled windows today and some stupid applicatiom nthat was workign wanted me to reboot, i went ot windows update and it told me i had to reboot before i can do updates.
<seb128> daniels: yeah, but there was already a lot of Debian/upstream talks on the topic, they are obviously not going to change (cf the discussion with walters)
<daniels> seb128: yeah.  sigh.
<Lathiat> does breezy-install-i386 20050817.1 fix the lilo/root= thing ?
<pitti> elmo: can you please sync clamav and pstotext? (both security issues in universe)
<seb128> elmo: please drop evolution-data-server1.2 and pyphany
<mvo> seb128: is there a new gtk+ release yet that fixes the "g_assert(child->parent == GTK_WIDGET(container))" problem yet?
* ogra_ glares at the gparted patch on ubuntu-devel
<seb128> mvo: 2.8.0
<seb128> mvo: but needs to update cairo, needs to change soname, need to rebuild 200 packages ... have to run FAST from mdz 
<ogra_> hmm... without all the whitespace changes the patch would be half the size...
<mvo> seb128: oh, this issue :) after colony, right?
<seb128> mvo: yep
<Lathiat> heh im just reading it atm too
<seb128> mvo: feel free to upload the new cairo now, but I'll not do it :)
<Lathiat> whats the patch achieve/
* Lathiat discovers the appopriate wiki page
<mvo> seb128: I value my good relation with matt too high for that :)
<seb128> ah ah
* mvo hates his net today. totally unreliable
<mvo> seb128: what bug did you see today with the amd64 live cd? 
<mvo> iirc you talked about it this morning with mdz
<seb128> mvo: the one from this night, or the new one from this morning?
<seb128> the first chocked on a keyboard issue, blocked on the xorg config
<mvo> seb128: I tried the new one from this morning and it failed on configuring X
<seb128> the new one works quite fine, some desktop issue but no big deal
<seb128> oh?
<mvo> seb128: I'll try again and see if I got the very latest
<seb128> what md5?
<daniels> jdub: dpkg-deb: building package `mgp' in `../mgp_1.11b-5_i386.deb'.
<seb128> mvo: 55ba21f1533d77bb60eec3138521251c here
<tepsipakki> oh yeah, hoary-cd
<tepsipakki> doh
<tepsipakki> ..'s arrived, all 750 of them
<Nafallo> 750?! yay :-)
<tepsipakki> =)
<tepsipakki> we'll be handing them out to students
<hmrocha> i'm installing ubuntu on my college pc's right now :)
<hunger> How is the graphics driver for X selected in ubuntu?
* hunger thinks the vesa driver is way more stable than the ati one on his laptop, so he wants to send a patch.
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I had a older image, getting the new one now
<mjg59> mdz: I've filed a bug which references it
<daniels> hunger: handwaving and trickery
<mjr> hunger, IIRC, with discover
<seb128> mvo: np
<hunger> mjr: That is what I thought before I went over to daniels interpretation;-)
<seb128> daniels: is there any way to force/change the xorg resolution on an hoary liveCD? It does 640x480 where the warty one does 1024x768 on the same box
<hunger> mjr: I do not have discover installed, so I think that is not it... or maybe I messed up my install again;-)
<mjr> well... handwaving it is then
<daniels> seb128: nope.  let me guess, integrated intel desktop chipset?
<daniels> hunger: mostly discover1
<hunger> daniels: Hmmm.... I do not have that installed... seems like I messed too much with the system again.
* hmrocha is away: lunch
<seb128> daniels: not happening to me, I've asked to note the video card type, I'll let you know ... is there any workaround known for these ones?
<daniels> seb128: not really.  and my uploads to hoary-updates seem to keep wandering ... sigh.
<seb128> daniels: k, thanks anyway
<seb128> I was thinking that maybe there is a boot option to say to use the vesa or something :)
<daniels> seb128: it would be neat, yeah.  maybe xserver-xorg/use_sync_ranges=true?
<seb128> I note that to try
<pitti> daniels, seb128: *sigh* it's done
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<mvo> daniels: btw, why do you seem to dislike glxinfo? 
<kagou> hi
<kagou> hi pitti , udev last upgrade is ok ;)
<pitti> Hi kagou 
<pitti> :-)
<kagou> pitti, i'v posted comments to request upgrade of udev for bugs that i think they are depending on the yesterday bug
<pitti> kagou: me too, I saw it :-)
<kagou> :p
<pitti> ok, have to go, cu later
<kagou> cu
<desrt> pitti; hey?
<sivang> jdub: Do you have your OSCon presentation somewhere online?
<desrt> pitti; just a headsup for when you get back... i don't know if this is the expected behaviour or not (because of the transition): http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/1323
* desrt goes back to bed
<pitti> desrt: hm, no, it's certainly not
<pitti> desrt: I'll look at it later
<pitti> I test the live cd now and then I need to go
<pitti_live> seb128: I currently test the amd64 live cd, hotplug stuff works dine
<mvo> hey pitti_live !
<pitti_live> seb128: fine, even. What was your problem?
* mvo wonders if he should test the amd64 live cd, looks like it got quite a bit of testing already
<pitti_live> mvo: I have a short bug list: video mode question, long hang with no apparent progress, kernel notification, missing gnome langpacks
<pitti_live> the rest seems to work just fine
<Lathiat> first 3 i reported on the ml, x86 too
<Lathiat> this dhcp thing is annoying me
<Lathiat> who knows about d-i network stuff?
<pitti_live> Lathiat, dhcp works fine here
<Lathiat> if i stasrt a dhclient on the terminal why d-i is trying to dhcp
<Lathiat> it keeps doing nothing just like the installer
<seb128> pitti_live: the liveCD label on the desktop/computer was "cdrom"
<pitti_live> Lathiat, langpacks are already fixed
<Lathiat> as soon as the installer stops dhcping
<Lathiat> it gets an offer instantly
<Lathiat> but buggered if i know why
<seb128> pitti_live: on my install it's "Ubuntu 5.10 amd64"
<pitti_live> seb128: oh, right, labels are broke
<Lathiat> i just did an i386 install 
<Lathiat> with 17.1
<Lathiat> worked great
<pitti_live> seb128: will look at it 
<Lathiat> one thing i noticed
<seb128> pitti_live: "yelp" summary is empty here too
<Lathiat> boot now takes like 5-10 extra seconds to start
<pitti_live> seb128: but not now, really gotta grab my bike and go now
<Lathiat> i think its the initramfs doing something
<seb128> pitti_live: and my network was not configured, I had to run dhclient
<Lathiat> seb128: same here
<seb128> later pitti_live
<Lathiat> seb128: it actually ran here, but it doesnt get an ip
<Lathiat> just like the installer
<Mithrandir> how often is the live initrd rebuilt?
<Lathiat> always works the second time
<pitti_live> seb128, sudo /etc/init.d/dbus cures it -- I saw that many times in bug reports
<pitti_live> bye
<daniels> fwiw, the video mode question thing is a debconf problem
<Lathiat> hrm...
<Lathiat> we have a real firefox icon on the panel
<Lathiat> isnt that bad?
<seb128> this has been fixed with gnome-icon-theme 2.9.91
<paolo> Why is bad?
<seb128> copyright issue
<paolo> Hmpf.
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> traemark thingy
<Lathiat> ok thanks seb128 
<Lathiat> also, do you know about the icon size thing?
<Lathiat> has that been fixed?
<seb128> not yet
<seb128> but will be for 5.10 for sure
<Lathiat> is someone capable working on it?
<seb128> 90% fixed atm
<Lathiat> ok
<Lathiat> hrm, muine and rhythmbox seem to have stopped responding to play/pause/next/prev
<seb128> Lathiat: I had some such issue with rb, I've launched totem to try ... that worked, and then rb was working too
<Lathiat> hrm
<seb128> Lathiat: if you can debug it you are welcome
<Lathiat> totem doesnt work here either
<Lathiat> hrm
<Mithrandir> mdz: how and when are the live initrd (no, not the cloop) rebuilt?  I need a rebuilt one with cdebconf 0.84ubuntu2 before I can upload the fixed casper.
<Lathiat> daniels: yay
* Lathiat spys xmkmf
<Lathiat> i can fix vflib3 and associated crap now
<daniels> it seems to work for basic (well, psychotic -- autoconf generating Imakefiles from Imakefile.ins) builds, when I tested with mgp and a couple of others
<daniels> let me know if it's broken in more complex cases, but I don't expect it will be
<\sh> daniels: i had problems installing libgl1-xorg-dri...it wanted to overwrite one file out of xmesalib-dri
<\sh> daniels: forgot a replaces for this package?
<Lathiat> daniels: any chance of glxinfo? (or is there another way to see if you have dri - for laptop testing)
<daniels> +Package: libgl1-xorg-dri
<daniels> +Conflicts: xlibmesa3 (<< 4.2.1-5), xlibmesa3-gl, xlibmesa-dri
<daniels> +Replaces: xlibmesa3 (<< 4.2.1-5), xlibmesa3-gl, xlibmesa-dri
<daniels> +Provides: xlibmesa-dri
<daniels> \sh: if there's a problem, it's not mine
<\sh> daniels: it was -49 
<\sh> strange
<daniels> Lathiat:   * Start building glxinfo from progs/xdemos, and stuff it in libgl1-mesa;
<daniels>     introduce Build-Depends on freeglut3-dev.
<Lathiat> on nice
<Lathiat> know what i want before i ask, yay
<Lathiat> daniels: what package?
<\sh> Unpacking libgl1-xorg-dri (from .../libgl1-xorg-dri_6.8.2-50_i386.deb) ...
<\sh> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libgl1-xorg-dri_6.8.2-50_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/gamma_dri.so', which is also in package xlibmesa-dri
<daniels> \sh: ok, busted in -49.  transient error, libgl1-mesa-dri will be getting rid of it soon anyway.
<daniels> Lathiat: that's from my local mesa changelog; not yet uploaded
<Lathiat> daniels: ok cool
<Lathiat> cheers
<hunger> \sh: upgrade worked fine here...
<daniels> hunger: no, turns out it really is my problem, but it's already fixed locall
<\sh> hunger: on my other install as well...but this install here...is anything but fault-tolerant ,-)
<hunger> daniels: Well, I am on -50... maybe that's it.
<\sh> daniels: ok..only a matter of time...I just thought, my install is b0rked
<infinity> \sh : Just remove xlibmesa-dri in the same apt run.
<hunger> daniels: Thanks for not breaking xkb for the last couple of weeks. It is so much easier to appreciate your work when X actually starts up;-) Looks like you got over the rough spots... upgrades have been pretty smooth for me lately.
<infinity> \sh : "apt-get --purge install libgl1-xorg-dri xlibmesa-dri-" (note the trailing "-")
* hunger thanks daniels for his work.
<infinity> \sh : That'll fix you for now, and the mesa uploads/transition in the next few days will fix it permanently.
<daniels> hunger: any time
<\sh> infinity: that was my next step to remove it..but I wasn't sure, if it was a bug or just a glitch in the matrix ,-)
<\sh> later dudes
<Lathiat> seb128: are you aware of any problems with the disk mounter applet?
<seb128> no
<Lathiat> ok i'll file bugs then
<seb128> oh, one "labels suck"
<Lathiat> nah
<seb128> about what?
<Lathiat> like it crashes when i select my hard drive
<Lathiat> also it hasnt realised my drive is unmounted even after restarting it
<Lathiat> does it use hal?
<seb128> yep
<Lathiat> wonder if dbus restarted
<seb128> did you upgrade dbus/hal?
<Lathiat> might reboot first
<Lathiat> yeh i think it did
<seb128> that's exactly why pitti changed it to not restart on update this morning
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> right
<Mithrandir> oh, shiny.
<Mithrandir> _shiny_.  amd64 valgrind released a short while ago
<Lathiat> Mithrandir: nice
<daniels> woo
<ogra_ltsp> seb128, i have a lot of xml errors at the end of the install from misformatted gnome-games helpfiles...
<ogra_ltsp> seb128, is that known ? 
<seb128> no
<ogra_ltsp> ok
<ogra_ltsp> Mithrandir, your telcos have a funny sense of humor.... http://zontik.de/uploads/1116202837_cd.jpg
<Lathiat> haha ogra_ltsp 
<fabbione> eheh
<fabbione> ogra: what about adding desktop-sparc to edubuntu-meta ?
<Nafallo> lol
<ogra_ltsp> fabbione, i had it in, it always broke my updates, i'll add it in the end again
<Mithrandir> ogra_ltsp: heh, such things happen, I guess
<fabbione> ogra_ltsp: broke in what way?
<ogra_ltsp> fabbione, the metapackage update script very often timed out on ports.ubuntu.com and i was to lazy to fix it every time... 
<fabbione> AH
<fabbione> but ports.u.c sits just close to archive...
<ogra_ltsp> fabbione, so i'll add it again for the final package...
<fabbione> it's at the datacenter
<ogra_ltsp> yes, but either it times out or Packages.gz is corrupted
<fabbione> hmm ok...
<ogra_ltsp> same for hppa and ia64
<fabbione> i suspect a mirroring issue from jackass
<fabbione> elmo: ping?
* ogra_ltsp imagines a sparc ltsp environment....
<ogra_ltsp> that'd be quite expensive... we have no multiarch ltsp yet
<ogra_ltsp> so all the clients have to be sparc too :)
<Mithrandir> heh
<fabbione> ehehhe
<ogra_ltsp> but could be funny though... for recycling cheap old sparc HW
* fabbione goes away for a couple of hours
<fabbione> bbl
<chmj> is there anyone hacking thunderbird ? 
<elmo> fabbione: ?
<seb128> elmo: could you drop evolution-data-server1.2 and pyphany please? :)
<infinity> chmj : Define "hacking thunderbird"... I've done a few uploads.
<ogra> hmm, does anybody know which part of the seeds is finally responsible for including stuff on the cd ? i'm trempted to edit STRUCTURE to add my server seed to edubuntu but i'm not sure
<ogra> s/trempted/tempted
<fabbione> elmo: can you see any problem on ports mirror.. as ogra described?
<elmo> fabbione: there's nothing wrong with ports
<chmj> infinity: its just that its terribly broken (instant crashes), but i see most of the bugs have been assigned to tfheen
<fabbione> elmo: ok..
<fabbione> ogra: fix your connection :P
<elmo> seb128: why for each?  [I may have missed it earlier, if you already said] 
<ogra> fabbione, it works for everything else... and mostly even on the second try... but since the other arches come first i have to wait 10min until i see it failing
<fabbione> ogra: ok.. i will look at it
<seb128> elmo: evolution-data-server1.2 (http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9779), that was a evolution-data-server rename sync from Debian
<infinity> chmj : On which dist?... I run it 24/7 on breezy with no problems.
<ogra> fabbione, as i said, its no biggie, i'll add it later again...
<seb128> elmo: pyphany is deprecated by epiphany-browser now which has the same feature 
<elmo> seb128: done
<seb128> elmo: thanks
<ogra> elmo, did you recognize the blackdown request yesterday ? 
<Mithrandir> daniels: 9984 is marked pendingupload, have you just forgotten to close it?
<siretart> daniels: infinity: libforms-dev places its headers to /usr/X11R6/include/X11. shouldn't they go to /usr/include?
<daniels> siretart: what are they doing in the X11/ namespace in the first place??
<siretart> daniels: you are the X11 god, not me :)
<daniels> Mithrandir: er yeah, thanks
<daniels> siretart: it should have its own namespace, not leech off <X11/...>
<infinity> Hysterical raisins, I'd assume.
<siretart> so it should be modified to install libs and headers to /usr, right?
<infinity> Heck, the thing was binary-only non-free crap until recently.
<daniels> siretart: yeah
<daniels> infinity: there are toolkits other than gtk and qt?
<daniels> no wait, sorry
<daniels> motif rules the world
<daniels> all hail motif
* infinity wonders why we have both libforms and libfltk, since they appear to implement the same API.
<j^> daniels now i understand why ubuntu ships with a motif theme for qt by default
<ogra> j^, yes, our KDE team is to slow... they are still working on implementing KDE in real motif
<j^> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2724
<j^> ogra i dont care about kde, i care about qt apps used from the default ubuntu desktop: gnome
<Lathiat> daniels: hrm, im not getting a ZAxisMapping, known ?
<daniels> lathi	yes
<Lathiat> okie
<pitti> Hi
<ogra> pitti, ho
<siretart> daniels: where has xmkmf gone?
<daniels> siretart: into a package called 'xmkmf', cunningly
<Nafallo> where is those binarys anyway? :-)
<Lathiat> building or NEW i suspect
<siretart> daniels: which you uploaded just 2h ago, I see
<Nafallo> NEW then
<\sh> and my ntfs partition can't be resized
<siretart> ok. I modified libforms1, but it needs xmkmf. will need to wait for the binaries, then
<daniels> it already got source-NEWed, but it's only recently finished building
<daniels> give it a while
<\sh> error: /lib/partman/automatically_partition/80custom/choices
<\sh> " 10resize_use_free/do_option
<\sh> " 10resize_use_free/do_option: IN: VIRTUAL 32256-60011642879
<\sh> parted_server: Read Command: VIRTUAL
<\sh> the device 32256-60011642879 is not opened
<\sh> parted_server: line 1081: CRITICAL ERROR!!!
<\sh> now I can copy and paste this text into bugzilla
<pitti> infinity: just sent you a mail wrt. a bug in the php patch
<ziaee> +2
<infinity> pitti : I'm backporting from 1.4.0 anyway, since sesser's patch didn't apply cleanly, so it's not really a problem.
<daniels> ajmitch: i'm bound to forget by the time you wake up, so basically, looking at symlink-mesa.sh, it looks like it should be a builddir thing rather than srcdir, especially as it's called from configure.  so I changed it to run in builddir and changed all the INCLUDEs in GL/**/Makefile.am.  mind if I commit?
<daniels> argh, wrong channel
<daniels> ajmitch: nm
<pitti> infinity: ok, just checking
<infinity> Oh, feh.  More PHP bugginess.
<siretart> jbailey: around?
<jbailey> siretart: Yup
<siretart> jbailey: just wanted to poke you another time about subversion's javahl ;)
<Lathiat> hrm, would it be such a stupid idea to include kernel headers by default?
<Lathiat> for example, im at uni and i need the cisco vpn client to connect, and i cant install the headers unless i get on the vpn, which i need the headers for. (had that happent to me last week)
<jbailey> siretart: Thanks. =)
<ogra> Lathiat, they are on the CD
<siretart> jbailey: I yesterday I had to fight with suse, which ships with prebuilt javahl (most probably built with sun jdk): result: segfaults :/
<Lathiat> didnt have the cd at uni 
<Lathiat> just wondering if theres an overly compelling reason not to
<Lathiat> i guess theres no compiler either
<ogra> on the CD 
<siretart> jbailey: to be serious: whats left to do so we can have javahl in ubuntu's svn?
<ogra> its all there ;)
<Lathiat> like i said
<jbailey> siretart: I expect it's a matter of just twiddling the build-deps and enabling it at this point.
<Lathiat> its more the off-guard situations like this, where you might not have a cd :)
<siretart> jbailey: I send you a debdiff, that packaged worked in pbuilder for me that time
<siretart> didn't check if there was another subversion update since then, though
<jbailey> siretart: It shouldn't be too drastic of a change either wya.
<ogra> Lathiat, easy to solve... never leave your home without ubuntu CD.... if you dont need it you can still give it away ;)
<Lathiat> heh
<infinity> Lathiat : Desktop systems shouldn't have a compiler or any -dev packages installed by default.  Carrythe CD around if you think you may need to compile stuff. :)
<Lathiat> infinity: well my point is, i didn't expect to, but i needed to compile the cisco vpn driver.
<Lathiat> anyway
<Lathiat> i wish vpnc worked at my uni
<Lathiat> the cisco vpn driver is a pos
<Lathiat> tseng: heh, the 'enable beagle on start', actually writes out ~/.runbeagle, which is suse specific 
<infinity> Lathiat : Curious, both the cisco closed source client and vpnc work at my girlfriend's university.
<infinity> Lathiat : Perhaps you could talk to the IT people to have them tweak settigns on the VPN to get vpnc to work with it...
<mvo> seb128: IIRC your SoC student worked on a way to figure if a given user is a sudoer. how is that progressing?
<Lathiat> infinity: any idea what needs tweaking?
<ogra> oh, yes, its a feature edubuntu needs too...
<Lathiat> infinity: vpnc seems to send the same initial packet
<ogra> seb128, ^^
<Lathiat> infinity: but nothing comes back
<Lathiat> it confuses me
<Lathiat> must be something slightly different
<Lathiat> or i was half dead when looking at tcpdump
<seb128> mvo: need to ask him again, he's working on other stuff atm
<seb128> mvo: he mailed the sudo list and is kind of waiting for a reply
<mdke> is there something wrong with the fonts in breezy at the moment? I just installed it and a lot of the fonts seem out of proportion with each other, or am I imagining it?
<ogra> seb128, that was about disabling admin tools in the menu too, right ? 
<seb128> yeah, the menu hidding already works
<ogra> yay
<mvo> seb128: k
<seb128> you just have to put X-Ubuntu-RootRequired=yes on the .desktop
<seb128> and it's masked for non-group-admin users
<mvo> seb128: does it only hide it? or does it run the command with gksudo as well?
<ogra> seb128, has daniles given any ETA for xnest ? i'd love to have sabayon available for my edubuntu testers
<seb128> mvo: the "easy" way would be to use "listpw=never" by default, which allow to do a "sudo -l" without a password
<seb128> ogra: xnest is fixed, I've sabayon ready to upload but I'm waiting on colony3 for changes
<seb128> I can push sabayon if needed
<ogra> seb128, that'd be great, since i want to manke ubuntu colony3 to be edubuntu colony1 :)
<ogra> make even
<seb128> current builds seems to work, I'm not sure there will an another set of CD, but let's upload
<ogra> yeah...
<ogra> if mdz complains, just point him to me... i take responsibility for that...
<mvo> seb128: hm, we would have to modify the sudoers file for that? btw, does this desktop key only hide menu-entry? or does it run the command with gksudo as well?
<seb128> mvo: yeah, the default option are here, no? It just hide, the gksudo bit require gnome-panel changes too and the feature freeze came quickly
<mvo> seb128: ok, that's fine. I was just curious about the behaviour of the key
<opi> Hey
<mjg59> Keybuk: You pang last night?
<Keybuk> I did, I filed a bug too
<mjg59> Against?
<Keybuk> unknown/hotkey-setup
<Keybuk> basically I have a list of hotkeys from my HP, and wanted to check with you before adding them to hotkey-setup
<mjg59> Ah, ok
<mjg59> Keybuk: Looks good
<Keybuk> shall I just go ahead and do it?
<mjg59> Yeah
<doko> pitti: what does a main inclusion report for dictionaries have to consist of?
<mjg59> Keybuk: Can you fix the init script so it actually runs hp.hk as well? 
<ogra> doko, there is a howto
<tseng> Lathiat: buh.
<ogra> doko, or just copy ne from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
<Keybuk> mjg59: needs a s!/etc!/usr/share! no?
<mjg59> Keybuk: Hm. Isn't it just synced from Debian?
<mjg59> In which case it ought to have /usr/share already
<mjg59> But actually has /use/share
<Keybuk> won't have been since UVF
<mjg59> I asked elmo to pull it
<Keybuk> there's 0.1-2 in both Debian and Ubuntu
<mjg59> Keybuk: That's what I thought. Where's the etc in the init script?
<Keybuk> 0.1-2 has /etc
<mjg59> Uhm. Wurgh?
<Keybuk> are you sure there's not a 0.1-3 on your disk that never got uploaded ? :)
<mjg59> Yes
<mjg59> The source I've just grabbed from archive.ubuntu.com has usr/share
<Keybuk> ah, what's ./hotkey-setup
<mjg59> Good question. No idea.
<mjg59> (Other thank "broken")
<mjg59> The init script is in debian/
<mjg59> Keybuk: Dude, you've got the distribution wrong
<Keybuk> yeah, noticed that <g>
<Keybuk> shouldn't try an upload before coffee
<siretart> infinity: as xmkmf is availabe now, I tried to build libforms1, but I get this in pbuilder: http://paste.debian.net/1582
<siretart> infinity: any idea what this could be?
<\sh> siretart: apt-file search date.def ?
<\sh> xutils: usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config/date.def
<\sh> siretart: can be a wrong position for this file...check xorg.cf
<siretart> \sh: in any case, this seems to my deeper xorg magic..
<\sh> siretart: it looks like that some symlinks are missing, or the xorg transition is stucked there ,-)
* mjg59 throws kernel code at fabio
<aroman> hi
<aroman> I have a Toshiba M40-JM8 laptop which does not work that great with ubuntu hoary. Breezy is near. How can I help to get this laptop to work out-of-the-box in breezy?
<Lathiat> aroman: see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
<aroman> Lathiat, thanks :)
<aroman> I know this is a kernel problem that prevents me from getting this to work properly. Firewire... When any firewire-related module loads, poof :( Nobody Cared about IRQ 11, Disabling IRQ 11 Message. What's on IRQ 11? Well, networking... :(
<Keybuk> christ, d-i partman is even scarier than I remember
<\sh> Keybuk: kamion is working on the partman stuff in the installer? 
<bddebian> Howdy
<sivang> bddebian: hi barry, 'sup?
<djpig> does anybody know why the Contents-* files for breezy aren't updated anymore? (apparently they haven't been updated since May, a packages.ubuntu.com user now noticed it and asked me about it)
<ogra> hmm, they arent ? apt-file works fine here, doesnt that use them too ? 
<siretart> ogra: yes, but the info is from may!
* mvo is away for ~2h now
<\sh> mvo: have fun :)
<ogra> \sh, he plays "einradhockey"
<ogra> \sh, (not joking)
<\sh> ogra: as i said: have fun :) if I could ride "one wheel bicycle" I would do it as well :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> hmm, does somebody know if pitti planned to come back today ?
<Keybuk> hmm, that's weird
<Keybuk> no usplash in fresh breezy install
<mjg59> No
<mjg59> It didn't get added to ship seed yet
<Keybuk> isn't it a dep of ubuntu-desktop?
<mjg59> Not as far as I know
<Keybuk> must be
<Keybuk> it's installed
<Keybuk> it's just not starting
<theantix> yes it is, I got it on an hoary->breezy upgrade
<mjg59> Oh
<mjg59> In that case it's because it's installed after the initramfs is made
<Keybuk> that's what it looks like, yup
<jbailey> Is there any way to tell apt that it should do if first iff it's available?
<mjg59> jbailey: Not that I know of
<jbailey> So many features that I don't care enough to implement. =)
<sladen> jbailey: can you pre-depend?
<mjg59> sladen: usplash shouldn't be a dependency
<jbailey> sladen: No, usplash should be optional
<jbailey> It's just that dpkg needs an ordering hint.
<sladen> or a callback system so that the initramfs rebuild can be called after new files are placed under it
<jbailey> sladen: Right.  The biggest risk is that a 1) a bad initramfs call could make the system unbootable. 2) There's no promise that they're using the default names for the initramfs, so I can't promise to regenerate it succesfully.
<jbailey> Installing mkinitramfs doesn't actually generate an initramfs, right now it's the kernel package that does that.
<\sh> and because of the actual kernel with usplash stuff in it. coming back hibernating from hibernating is not working...i have to test it on my nc6000 as well..
<\sh> oh damn...I should not write and think and play with other things at the same time
<ogra> \sh, that should work.. 
<\sh> ogra: should but not on the toshiba one...with hoary == no problem...
<ogra> hmm
<\sh> w8...i will test it now
<\sh> actually...vflib3 needs more kicks from me..so let me play hibernating ,-)
<\sh> brb
* sladen hands \sh_away as /away
<sladen> \sh_away: if it worked under hoary, but not under breezy that's a bug and a regression
<sladen> \sh_away: there's been some re-writing of interrupting handling I think which might have broken stuff
<ogra> sladen, is it already supposed to work fine ? it doesnt here too on my amd64 lappie
<adamh> I've installed libc6-dbg, but when I run my program (compiled with -g) in gdb, my stack traces show stuff like "#12 0xb7be24a0 in result.0 () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6" and I can't "list" the source code. Shouldn't it be "/usr/lib/debug/..."?
<ogra> sladen, exactly mine stops with a APIC error... so i was suspecting the interrupt handling
<\sh> re
<ogra> ol
<\sh> ok...it's going into hibernating mode...but it comes up and freezes the screen with garbage, when it goes into X
<ogra> hmm
<\sh> (on nc6000)
<\sh> on portge I don't see it even going into hibernate mode
<\sh> and when it comes back, it stops with some errors in the usplash thing..I can give u more informations when I'm back on breezy with this portege
<\sh> hoary just works 
<mjg59> \sh: There's a stack of stuff for suspend/resume fixes that just went into the kernel
<mjg59> Should appear in the archive tomorrow (when it's built)
<\sh> mjg59: good to know :)
<mjg59> But yeah, there are known regressions at the moment
<mjg59> Plus the PM scripts don't work properly yet
<hunger> Could someone please sync monotone with debian? Thanks!
<hunger> s/sync/update to the debian version/
<lamont> hunger: there needs to be an actual bug that is fixed by the upgrade, etc, etc.
<lamont> "because it's newer" doesn't count
<\sh> sabdfl: ping
<dieman> mmm
<dieman> moved my ubuntu mirror to a slightly better machine
<Keybuk> ouch
<Keybuk> lethal bug:
<Keybuk> go into gnome-terminal, edit current profile, colours, and pick a colour
<Keybuk> then hover the mouse over the "Colour Name" box until the tooltip appears
<seb128> stop searching bugs to flood my bugzilla :)
<ogra> xhmm
<ogra> stuck...
<mdz> ogra: have you tested the latest install CD?  it should fix your issue but I would appreciate confirmation
<seb128> mdz: the amd64 liveCD is fixed
<ogra> mdz, yes, it did... 
<mdz> excellent, thanks for testing
<mdz> you tested i386?
<ogra> mdz, also the next edubuntu is good to go i think :)
<ogra> yep
<mdz> I will re-test powerpc and amd64 installs, and all 3 live CDs
<ogra> amd64 only live, i dont want to wipe my work machine
<mdz> and if all goes well, colony 3
<seb128> mdz: no running new CDs?
<ogra> mdz, i want edubuntu-server on the CD do i have to add it to ship in STRUCTURE or only to the ship seed ?
<seb128> mdz: the current ones have no gnome-language-packs 
<seb128> mdz: ie: the desktop is not translated when you pick something else than english ... pitti fixed that today
<seb128> not sure if you consider that as a stopper for a colony
<ogra> seb128, it is if you have network enabled... i have a german desktop on my test install
<Keybuk> seb128: I'm not deliberately finding them :)  I'm just doing a test reinstall and reconfigure of my laptop
<ogra> seb128, this bug is real.. i just had to kill my terminal
<seb128> I don't doubt of it
<mdz> seb128: if I roll new CDs, will you re-test?
<seb128> mdz: yep
<mdz> every time we do a new build, we risk regressions.  the current one is pretty good
<seb128> if you don't make 5 hours to make the CDs
<seb128> s/make/take/
<marcin> hi all
<marcin> I got a question - there is Calendaring Synchronization goal for breezy
<ogra> seb128, if yu kept your iso its a short resync :)
<seb128> mdz: I had to run "sudo dhclient" to get an IP too, is that a known issue?
<marcin> and there are plans to integrate support for ical and webcal for evo...
<seb128> the stock boot didn't set up my eth
<ogra> oops... 
<ogra> seb128, dhcp ? 
<seb128> didn't get an IP I mean
<marcin> question is - are there any plans to provide syncml server for ubuntu?
<seb128> ogra: no, I run dhclient on static config :p
<ogra> seb128, worked for me on the install...
<ogra> sorry, i'm blind :)
<mgalvin> seb128: that happened to me the other day but it works correctly on the latest cd for me
<Keybuk> seb128: the installer didn't set up ath0 for me, but did set up eth0
<seb128> Keybuk: that was a liveCD, and I use eth1
<mdz> seb128: no, that is not a known issue
<mdz> seb128: does it work with the hoary live CD?
<mdz> seb128,pitti: are the gnome laangpacks also missing from the live CD?
<seb128> they are missing from the liveCD
<mdz> ...
<seb128> not sure for hoary, but I've both liveCD here and I can try now if you want
<mdz> how does the gnome langpack installation work?
<mdz> is it something which can be fixed by an upgrade?
<mdz> if so, it is not a showstopper
<seb128> pitti fixed that while you were sleeping afaik
<seb128> kind of, that's a package to install ... but then you need to restart the apps
<mdz> I understand, but it makes a difference how it was fixed
<seb128> ie: panel, nautilus, applets needs to be killed
<ogra> mdz, the install pulls them from the net in the last step... so you should be able to install them on the liveCD too
<mdz> why did no one mention this yesterday?
<ogra> i did
<mdz> ogra: there is probably not space on the live CD
<seb128> because yesterday one stopped on xorg config here
<ogra> several times
<seb128> ie: before getting the desktop
<mdz> ogra: you said they were downloaded from the net
<mdz> not that the desktop was not localized
<ogra> mvo did too
<mdz> downloading is fine
<mdz> missing is not fine
<ogra> mdz, yes, that was the case, but i didnt do an install without net access
<mdz> are they installed from the net, or are they not installed at all?
<mdz> if it only affects non-networked installs, it does not necessarily block colony 3
<ogra> on install they are pulled from the net
<mdz> ok, I'm happy to add that as a caveat to the announcement
<seb128> fine with me
<ogra> yup
<seb128> mdz: 
<seb128> ao 17 10:49:09 <pitti> mdz: ok, I throw some other langpacks off the powerpc CD, it does not make sense to have the base,
<seb128> but not the gnome translation
<seb128> that was from some minute before you went to bed
<mjg59> mdz: How do you feel about patches to grub?
<mvo> mdz: daily did not install for me with two network interfaces. but that's probably a rare case. the interfaces where swapped after the boot and that caused apttitude update to fail
<ogra> mvo, we talk about the gnome langpacks
<mvo> this lead to unauthenticated langpack-gnome-en packages and the installer hangs
<mvo> ogra: it's related, because after the failed aptitude update nothing from the net was considered authenticated anymore
<mvo> and because the langpack was feteched from the net the base-config package install hanged
<ogra> yep... sorry i was to fast
<mdz> mjg59: bugfix patches to grub would be grand
* mvo was too slow :p
<ogra> heh
<mdz> +1 amd64 live
<mjg59> mdz: I sent it upstream, but haven't heard anything back
<mdz> mjg59: I am especially fond of patches which fix "error 22" and "error 18"
<mjg59> Ah. This one doesn't do that.
<mjg59> This one fixes "Hard drive error"
<mdz> oh, that's also a good one
<mjg59> 13511
<ogra> elmo, could you sync openafs ? seems to fix a ftbfs
<ogra> seb128, meh, sabayon ftbfs 
<ogra> configure: error: Can't locate python headers
<seb128> I'll fix it
<ogra> mdz, so how do i get edubuntu-server on the CD now ? adding it o the ship list in STRUCTURE? 
<mdz> ogra: I don't know
<ogra> oh
<ogra> hmm... ok then i'll go juggling :)
* mvo likes juggling too
<ogra> s/juggling/gambling
<ogra> :)
* \sh is the laptop2laptop network juggler
<\sh> hmmm...i need to set up dsl on this portege
<\sh> to create a new bug entry
<\sh> cause writing a kernel oops by hand is a paine
<\sh> rb
<\sh> brb
<concept10> Could anyone give me a good link about upgrading to breezy and general info?
<rob^> no
<rob^> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBadger
<\sh> hmmm..
<mdz> +1 powerpc live
<mgalvin> concept10: this is not the channel for those discussions, please try asking on #ubuntu or on the mailing list
<\sh> -- not configured madwifi device + iwlist ath0 scanning == segfault + kernel oops
<theantix> \sh, yup
<carstenh> concept10: if i were you i would wait till the release (unless you want to hunt bugs)
<concept10> mgalvin, I asked because most people in the normal channel do not know about specifics, I wanted to know what is the up-to-date status of the transition of the C library.
<\sh> what transition of the c lib?
<\sh> u mean gcc4?
<concept10> Yes.
<concept10> \sh, I need a package that is only in breezy.  It probably wont break my system.  The package I need is cpufrequtils - I need to change the min/max values of my processor speed.
<mgalvin> concept10: that is mostly done i think
<ogra> concept10, why dont you just adjust the powernowd settings ? 
<\sh> the c libs weren't that problem...only the g++ libs were transitioned with diff. package names...
<ogra> concept10, rather then switching to a unstable system
<mgalvin> concept10: upgrading to breezy is easy if you want to just do it
<concept10> ogra, let me try with powernowd I just printed the manpage
<mgalvin> breezy has been really starting to stablize recently
<mdz> +1 i386 live
<carstenh> concept10: maybe rebuilding cpufrequtils in breezy is worth a try
<rob^> is gparted part of the CD installation yet?
<mgalvin> concept10: vi /etc/apt/sources.list ... %s/hoary/breezy/g
<ogra> concept10, look in /etc/init.d/powernowd there you can adjust the options at the top
<concept10> Okay, thanks guys, let me see what I come up with.
<carstenh> s/breezy/hoary/
<mgalvin> er yea, oops
<KHI> hi, is this where i can help on the laptop team, or at least talk with some of the members?
<\sh> KHI: #ubuntu-laptop
<rob^> KHI, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBadger
<concept10> mgalvin, for the life of me, I cannot find where to adjust the min/max processor values. :(
<rob^> KHI, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
<rob^> sorry..
<KHI> ok
<KHI> going
<KHI> it's alright, lol
<KHI> I just wanted to see if there was a spot for panasonic mobiles, or if there's been much of a request for them.
<KHI> i'll look it over now though.
<\sh> KHI: join #ubuntu-laptop pls
<KHI> thank you
<ogra> concept10, powernowd only adjusts the throttling etc.. but you can work with the values there
<concept10> ogra, for some reason 100% is only 1.59Ghz, I have a 2.66Ghz processor, it only scales as low as 199Mhz, im just looking to change the min/max values, I know it can be done, I just dont know where.  
<concept10> powernowd only lets you adjust the percentage not the actual values
<ogra> ah, thats rather a kernel thing then... what kind of proc is that ? may amd64 is caller 3200+ but doesnt go above 2200Mhz... amd always measured the relation to intel
<ogra> s/may/my
<ogra> called...
<Simira> \sh : colony 2 worked fine!
<mdz> +1 powerpc install
<\sh> Simira: with what?
<concept10> ogra, the processor is a mobile p4 2.66 with speedstep, I know it will go to 2.66 because it does in windows, I guess cpufrequtils is the only way to change the values.  The AMD64 3200+ is only a comparision rating, not the actual speed   
<ogra> concept10, yup, thats what i maent...
<concept10> I guess im going to have to build cpufrequtils on hoary
<ogra> pull the breezy sourcepackage and try if it builds..
<concept10> Okay, thanks for the help anyway.
<ogra> concept10, you could ylso ask Mez, he's responsible for backports
<ogra> s/ylso/also
<mdz> mjg59: grub patch is fine for breezy post-colony3
<mjg59> mdz: Cool
<mdz> mjg59: which, with any luck, will be in about 15 minutes
<mdz> assuming the release scripts work
<ogra> i'd appreciate if this could be delayed until the next edubuntu build has run
<mdz> +1 i386 install
<ogra> whats missing now ? amd64 install ? 
<mdz> nope
<mdz> that's 6/6
<ogra> yay
<mvo> cool
<ogra> we got a badger colony :)
<ogra> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger 
<Nafallo> COLONY! :-)
<ogra> schhhhnake
<\sh> what?
<Mez> ogra: sorry what ?
<\sh> now tell me guys, I just downloaded this morning latest iso..and this is obsolete now?
<ogra> GUYS
<mdz> elmo: around?
<ogra> you dont know the breezy dance ?
<ogra> http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/
<tseng> badger badger badger!
<ogra> YEAH
<mdz> the torrent tracker seems to be down
<mdz> that's the only thing blocking colony 3
<Simira> \sh : with my faulty laptop
<ogra> do we really need torrent for a colony ?
<\sh> Simira: oh ehehe...which one?
<mdz> it would be preferable, both for us and for the users
<mdz> it's not a strict blocker, but I'd like to wait a bit and see if elmo can look at it
<\sh> ogra: i can put a mirror up on my server..but then my friends will kill me ;)
<ogra> sure but i bet we can go without it for now and have a tracker up tomorrow
<mdz> it's already published, I'm just holding the announcement
<Simira> \sh: colony 2 on hp nc8230
<\sh> Simira: then test latest build ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with breezy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Feature freeze! | Colony 3 is released: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/breezy/colony-3/
<ogra> yay yay yay+
<\sh> mdz: ROCK'N'Roll
<Treenaks> gah
<Treenaks> just tested /current from today :)
<\sh> Treenaks: welcome to the real world :)
<Treenaks> \sh: Is it too late to take the blue pill then?
<\sh> Treenaks: hmmm..yes
<Treenaks> \sh: hmm..
<Simira> \sh: second thing tomorrow morning (after breakfast)
<siretart> badger badger!
<xerox> badger badger badger
<Treenaks> MUSHROOM
<mdz> Treenaks: /current is identical to colony 3
* lamont idly wishes for some way to really tell at build time whether the package is being built for ubuntu or debian.
<Treenaks> mdz: cooless
<Treenaks> +n
<madduck> are there any more details known about the ubuntu conference yet?
<madduck> (the one in the fall that is?)
<Mithrandir> mdz: when and how is the live initrd rebuilt?
* Mithrandir prods mdz
<mjg59> Oh damnit.
<mjg59> I don't understand this at all.
<Nafallo> mako: ping
<mako> Nafallo: yes
<Nafallo> mako: the image on the cd-covers. can I find those somewhere for our SFD banners? :-)
<Nafallo> s/those/this/
<mako> Nafallo: i don't actually have them and had some difficulty getting them in the warty time frame.. jdub would probably the person to ask
<Nafallo> mako: oki, thanx :-)
<Nafallo> jdub: ping :-)
<wasabi_> Does it seem to anybody that it would be a good idea to record the apt- key used to install each package?
<wasabi_> And only allow updates within the same key.
<mdz> Mithrandir: the live initrd is identical to the install initrd
<Mithrandir> mdz: well, when and how is that rebuilt, then?
<Mithrandir> mdz: I need an updated cdebconf into the initrd before I upload the fixed casper
<jbailey> lamont: You mean at build time on the local machine?
<mdz> Mithrandir: it's built by cron jobs on the buildds and uploaded as a byhand bundle
<mdz> I also have a trigger I can use to force a new build
<lamont> jbailey: yes
<mdz> (daily cron jobs)
<lamont> jbailey: failing that, at runtime on the target machine
<Mithrandir> mdz: ok, so really-daily or 30-minute-daily?
<jbailey> lamont: Depend on lsb and use lsb_release -i ?
* lamont throws tomatoes
<lamont> Mithrandir: debian-installer daily build is truly daily, as are livecd rootfs builds
<mdz> Mithrandir: really-daily
<jbailey> lamont: Hmm, lsb_release is in it's only lsb-release package.
<lamont> although, d-i build happens on a diff machine, and later than the livecd builds
<jbailey> lamont: Probably exactly for that.
<Mithrandir> ok, when-daily?
<Mithrandir> mdz: I've tested my changes on one machine here and they work, would you be fine with me uploading them or should I hold it off?
<lamont> #15 4 * * *             /home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD kubuntu
<lamont> #15 6 * * *             /home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD ubuntu
<lamont> #0 7 * * *              /home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD base
<lamont> #15 6 * * *             /home/buildd/bin/BuildDI
<mdz> Mithrandir: are they in a baz branch?
<Mithrandir> mdz: not yet, but that's easily fixed.
<mdz> Mithrandir: if not, please put them in one so that I can easily merge them; then it doesn't matter who uploads it
<carstenh> wasabi_: this would make upgrades impossible if a key has expired or compromised after i installed a package. i don't think this would be that good.
<mdz> Mithrandir: casper is in matt.zimmerman@canonical.com/casper--main--0
<wasabi_> hmmm.
<jdub> http://pida.berlios.de/index.php/PIDA:Screenshot
<lamont> jbailey: making lsb-release essential would be bad though, yes?
<jdub> PIDA looks rad
<jdub> embedded vim!
<jdub> hey lamont!
<lamont> jdub!!
<lamont> sup man?
<ajmitch> morning jdub 
<wasabi_> carstenh, or by keys signed by the original key?
<jdub> lamont: dude, i did a talk last night
<lamont> kewl!
<jdub> lamont: i mentioned you and hppa in the same sentence, and everyone in the room was laughing. it was a bit surreal.
<lamont> hrmpf
<jdub> ;-)
<lamont> what was the topic?  ubuntu in general?
<carstenh> wasabi_: does this make it more secure if a key has been compromised?
<lamont> and what audience?
<Nafallo> I can see: JDUB :-)
<jdub> i did a quick rehash of my OSCON talk at the SLUG Debian SIG
<wasabi_> carstenh, no, it makes it more secure to deal with multiple repositories.
<wasabi_> carstenh, of different trust levels.
<lamont> jdub: heh
<jbailey> lamont: Not really.  The package contains a shell script, some conffile in /etc, a man page and the usual /usr/share/doc noise.
<Nafallo> jdub: the image on the cd-covers. can I find this somewhere for our SFD banners? :-)
<lamont> jbailey: on debian?
<jdub> so "running with scissors: life on the bleeding edge", covering GNOME and Ubuntu 
<carstenh> wasabi_: JFYI: i'm the wrong guy to talk about this. this are just my meaningless opinions :)
<wasabi_> carstenh, for instance. If I want to install a certain piece of software from a third party repository... I don't want to give them the ability to override Ubuntu packages.
<wasabi_> Yeah.
<jbailey> lamont: It appears to exist on both Debian and Ubuntu.
<lamont> jbailey: this is util-linux's init.d scripts, you see...
<jdub> Nafallo: the circle of friends?
<Nafallo> jdub: yepp :-)
<jdub> Nafallo: wait, don't you guys have SFD CD artwork?
<mr_mojo> hi
<carstenh> wasabi_: imho then you should use pinning for that
<mr_mojo> is there any effort to implement incremental file transfers for apt-get?
<Nafallo> jdub: we where to late and had to use shipit :-/
<wasabi_> carstenh, perhaps. That might work fine.
<jdub> Nafallo: d'oh
<jbailey> lamont: Sure.  lsb-release is even in /bin
<jdub> Nafallo: um, so, jane.silber@canonical.com
<Nafallo> jdub: we didn't have a LoCo at that time ;-)
<opi> jdub, thanks for Planet changes (URI to our Planet:-)
<carstenh> wasabi_: it would also make publishing private repositories more complicated
<Nafallo> jdub: the picture aren't anywhere else? we have an artist for the banners and stuff already. or are there official material we should use?
<lamont> jbailey: I'll hold off on doing that for a bit, and let the diff be more than just the changelog
<wasabi_> carstenh, good.
<jdub> opi: ah, good, hadn't seen the change land yet :)
<carstenh> wasabi_: ... since everybody that oofers a private repository has to know that and handle it correctly
<wasabi_> carstenh, we don't want private repositories to easily overwrite ubuntu packages without no interaction.
<wasabi_> imo
<jdub> Nafallo: jane can send you the image
<jdub> Nafallo: alternatively, you could grab the circle image from the HumanCircle gdm theme
<Nafallo> jdub: oki :-). will try the second alternative first. thanx
<carstenh> wasabi_: then maybe offically repositories should be pinned with a higher priority per default
<wasabi_> Hmm.
<Mithrandir> mdz: tollef.fog.heen@canonical.com/casper--debconf-copydb--0 ; http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/archives/tollef.fog.heen@canonical.com
<opi> jdub, http://bronikowski.com/?menu=single&id=127 ;)
<mdz> Mithrandir: ouch
<mdz> C   casper/post.d/20xconfig
<mdz> C   debian/changelog
<wasabi_> Hmmm.
<wasabi_> I guess that is actually good enough.
<mdz> Mithrandir: where did you branch from?
<wasabi_> Ya know, I just short circuited my entire argument.
<carstenh> wasabi_: i did not have much time to think about it. maybe i'll find that idea great after sleeping a night. this are just my priviate opinions and maybe you should talk to someone else about this.
<Mithrandir> mdz: the one you mentioned; baz branch matt.zimmerman@canonical.com/casper--main--0 tollef.fog.heen@canonical.com/casper--debconf-copydb--0
<mdz> Mithrandir: oops, my mirror was out of date
<mdz> Mithrandir: please merge with main and resolve the conflicts
<lamont> hrm... lsb-release is Depend'ed on by:   lsb lsb-release ubuntu-base ubuntu-desktop update-manager update-notifier
<carstenh> wasabi_: on the other hand if i use backports.debian.org (don't know if ubuntu has something similar) i want this packages to override the offical packages.
* lamont wonders if that means it'll always be there on systems that we want the pretty-fied init output on...
<jdub> hmm, i should try a breezy install
<mdz> jdub: yes, you should
<carstenh> wasabi_: so enforcing a higher pinning for offical stuff might not that good too 
<wasabi_> carstenh, i've got a little piece of sample code I am working with that adds support for .apt files. The .apt file contains a gpg key and archive path and packages to install. When you launch one it asks you to trust the key and installt he packages.
<jdub> mdz: should i try a ppc one?
<wasabi_> The idea will be for ISVs to provide easy installs of third party applications.
<mjg59> What's the mapping between kernel keycodes and X keycodes?
<Mithrandir> mdz: done; I removed your makedev hack since infinity has fixed it in a better way in makedev for the next livecd image.
<mdz> jdub: take your pick
<opi> mdz, should I try ppc one on Pegasos, or yaboot will still not work?
<jdub> i'd rather not, i still have a warm place in my heart for my toilet seat ibook, i'd rather not bash it to pieces
<mdz> Mithrandir: agreed
<Nafallo> hmm, the people looked up in gdm and down on the cd ;-)
<mdz> Mithrandir: hmm, doesn't this make the progress bar look a bit strange?
<Mithrandir> mdz: I don't think so?
<mdz> Mithrandir: it would display the same message for both pre.d/20xconfig and post.d/20xconfig
<carstenh> wasabi_: hmm, this might be worth discussing with apt's upsteam. maybe you should file a wishlist bug for that or talk to him dircetly if he has some time.
<mdz> maybe the first one is fast enough that it isn't noticeable though
<wasabi_> carstenh, I've talked with mov a lot. I was just considering the security implications.
<Mithrandir> mdz: I think it'll be quick enough, but feel free to rename the first stage.
<mdz> Mithrandir: merged, renamed, mirrored
<carstenh> wasabi_: i don't know who mov is. i guess i can't help you further and hope hearing my opinions has helped you a little bit :)
<mdz> s/mirrored/mirroring/
<Mithrandir> mdz: will you do the upload as well?  It's midnight and I've had a few beers so I think I'm off to bed.
<mdz> Mithrandir: I thought it needs to wait for the new cdebconf anyway
<Mithrandir> mdz: it needs the new cdebconf, yes.
<mdz> Mithrandir: 0.84ubuntu2?
<Mithrandir> yes
<mdz> should probably wait until tomorrow to be sure
<Mithrandir> ok, sure.
<jdub> yes! xmkmf!
<Mithrandir> mdz: is there anything in particular you want me to concentrate on tomorrow?  I've started trying to get the RC bug count down so far, but if you want me to look at other stuff, please tell me.
<Mithrandir> mdz: I've contemplated beginning to hack on partman-evms as well, for breezy+1
<mdz> Mithrandir: bugzilla
<Mithrandir> mdz: bugzilla is naturally what I go by for RCness, yes.
<mdz> Mithrandir: should get more particular than that as I'm able to process the bug list, set severities and assign bugs
<Mithrandir> sounds fine.
#ubuntu-devel 2005-08-23
<mdz> hmm, debzilla seems to have stalled
<mdz> I disabled the cron job, apparently
* mdz reopens the floodgates
<doko> oh, does this mean, we get all the RC reports from unstable?
* Mithrandir chalks down tomorrow for RC bug triage
<Mithrandir> well, bed.
<mjg59> mdz: Is there a more correct way of requesting a sync from Debian than just asking elmo on IRC?
<elmo> if it's a new upstream version and in main, mail mdz, cc me.  if it's not, irc is fine, fallback on irc if I miss it
<elmo> meh s/on irc/on email/
<elmo> and I'm missing a lot ATM, thanks to apple being the worst company in the world EVAH
<doko> elmo: may I fall back to irc as well? ;)
<elmo> not at 11 o'clock at night, you can't no.  well you can try, but I retain rights to ignore you
<doko> heh, I tried earlier as well ;)
<mjg59> elmo: Ok - it would be good to get hotkey-setup from Debian once the new version is in the archive
<elmo> mjg59: ok, irc syncs definitely only work if I can sync it _right now_ ;-) pls mail and I'll deal with it when it appears
<doko> elmo: syncs from unstable to make anastacia happy: aspell-br 0.50-2-6 / ispellcat 0.4-4 / dutch 1:0.1e-37 / python-numeric (23.8-4), python-numarray (1.3.2-2)
<doko> elmo: universe: python-extclass python-tz umfpack libghemical
<ajmitch> elmo: sync clamav (UVF, but is security fix) please :)
<elmo> eh, I synced clamav already today
<mjg59> elmo: Ok, no problem
<ajmitch> elmo: ah, thanks
* ajmitch missed that update
<mjg59> mdz: Does Colony 3 have restricted drivers in the installer?
<mdz> mjg59: not unless someone did it without my noticing
<mjg59> mdz: Ok
* robitaille looks at the flood in bugzilla...165 new comments in the last 10 minutes...
<jdub> see what happens when a new colony CD is announced! stop that!
<elmo> or that could be debzilla being turned back on ...
<jdub> that's way less exciting
<jdub> now you get to drink from THE FIRE HOSE!
<mjg59> ogra: gnome-power-manager still doesn't seem to do much...
<doko> mjg59: usually windows tools with "power" in it's name dont't do much either ;)
<mjg59> doko: ?
<robitaille> jdub:  it's the debzilla effect (now up to 310; maybe I should unsubscribe from ubuntu-bugs...)
<Nafallo> jdub: have we got our mailinglist yet?! :-D
<mjg59> Oh, yeah, can we have a laptop team mailing list?
<jdub> Nafallo: today - i fell asleep as soon as i got home last night
<jdub> mjg59: oh, you have one
<jdub> mjg59: i sent you and claire the admin details
<mjg59> jdub: Oh, do we?
<mjg59> I don't think I got a mail from you
<Nafallo> jdub: :-)
<mjg59> jdub: Could you send it again? I may have accidently deleted it, or something
<Nafallo> mjg59: manual spam-filter? ;-)
<ajmitch> another mailing list for me to join? :)
<elmo> man, there's going to be so many random dpkg questions again for hoary -> breezy
<Keybuk> *nods*
<Keybuk> daniels caused a lot of them ;)
<mpt_> So, there's the main cdimage server, that has Colony but won't give it
<mpt_> and the US mirror, that's nice and fast, but doesn't have Colony 3 yet
* mpt_ is just too impatient
<elmo> uh, it doesn't?
<elmo> oh, yeah it won't
<elmo> we only trigger releases
<elmo> I should probably fix that
* Keybuk gets out the wrench and smacks xkb around a bit
<Keybuk> I still want to know whether this iz gtk bug or iz xkb bug
<carstenh_> is there a standard way for changing /etc/network/interfaces in debian/ubuntu from a package maintainer script?
<carstenh_> (it's not a conffile)
<carstenh_> and what is the standard way for endusers to configure their network? i don't use  a standard-installation :/
<HrdwrBoB> using network-admin
<carstenh_> ok, thanks
<elmo> christ on a stick, is there something like xmms (not rhythmbox), that doesn't use freaking GTK 1 file chooser dialogs?
<elmo> very preferably in hoary
<mgalvin> bmp maybe, not sure though
<whiprush_> beep-media-player
<Keybuk> mdz: so I've been looking at that annoying "eth0 can't be mapped reliably" warning
<Keybuk> elmo: muine?
<Keybuk> basically it looks like it always moans if you try and ifrename eth0 or wlan0
<daniels> elmo: there's an xmms2 that uses gtk2.  but upstream are against it.  sapping and impurifying our precious bodily fluids.
<elmo> ...
<Keybuk> I think we can just add "-t" to the ifrename call in hotplug, but I'm not sure whether that will cause death and destruction or not
<jdub> yeah, use muine
<Keybuk> alternatively, we can comment out the warning ;)
<jdub> it is rad
<jdub> if you like xmms stylin's
<jdub> well, sort of
<jdub> try it anyway
<elmo> yeah, I'm installing both muine and b-m-p to try
<infinity> Keybuk : Given that the ifrename run happens before the network comes up, -t /should/ DTRT.
<Keybuk> infinity: it's whether it runs before the _other_ network interface comes up though, isn't it
<Keybuk> the manpage claims "this is not compatible with hotplug", but I can't see why
<carstenh_> i don't like the idea of randomly changing interface names either
<Keybuk> well, in theory, -t will result in the interface names always matching what iftab says
<infinity> They can randomly change, depending on when hotplug detects them, or what order the kernel drivers load in, or the phase of the moon, or who knows what.  That's the point of ifrename.
<infinity> Keybuk : Exactly.  The only real way to know for sure is to do some testing, I guess.
<jdub> ifrename punched me in the face the other day
<infinity> Keybuk : It can't be much worse than the current situation, where half our users will have their interfaces move between hoary and breezy "just cause".
<Keybuk> jdub: what did it do?
<jdub> i tried to change iftab, but the kernel just complained about trying to rename each device on top of the other
<Keybuk> infinity: I've played a bit, and I couldn't futz it
<jdub> so it never actually did what it was told
<Keybuk> jdub: ah, see, you _wanted_ this "-t" we're discussing
<Keybuk> -t is "takeover the interface name and do what I say, not what the kernel says"
<jdub> oh
<infinity> And -t is pretty much required on most machines with multiple interfaces.
<infinity> So, I'm not sure why we weren't already using it.
<jdub> oh well, the tulip card probably rocks harder than the nvidia one anyway ;)
<mdz> Keybuk: doesn't -t come with some scary warning attached?
<mdz> "MAY EAT KITTENS"
<Keybuk> mdz: -t won't work if the interface name you're trying to steal is already plumbed
<Keybuk> but we aggressively seed /etc/iftab with every interface, no?
<mdz> Keybuk: but it will if it exists but is down?
<mjg59> The death of kittens is necessary
<Keybuk> mdz: yeah, exists but down is fine
<mjg59> Otherwise how would they get to heaven?
<mdz> Keybuk: we seed it at install time, yes
<Keybuk> I managed to successfully swap my eth0 and ath0 around when playing
<infinity> (Note that they MUST be down for it to work... So we should ensure that's the case)
<infinity> ie: Ensure everything listed in iftab is down; then perform swaps, make it atomic (ish).  Cause if one interface is up, the whole operation will go tits-up in curious ways (like you may end up with an interface with a completely random name)
<Keybuk> actually, it's not that random
<Keybuk> and it goes tits up in curious ways _now_ :p
<infinity> Not in random ways, though.
<infinity> "Not renaming the interfaces at all" is a pretty normal behaviour.
<Keybuk> ya know we run ifrename _after_ hotplug right now? heh
<infinity> Yes.
<Keybuk> if we move S40ifrename to S39ifrename, it'll get run before hotplug and networking
<infinity> And then any interfaces that only exist as a result of hotplug can't get renamed.
<Keybuk> yeah they can, because hotplug's net.agent calls ifrename
<Keybuk> (before calling ifup)
<infinity> Hrm.  So, we'd still want/need the -t in the ifrename init script, but could probably skip it in hotplug (since we'd assume any names the hotplug devices conflict with have already been renamed)?
<Keybuk> exactly
<infinity> Seems fair.
<mdz> Keybuk: should we be calling ifrename at boot time at all?
<mdz> isn't it called by hotplug at the right time?
<mdz> s/at boot time/from its init script/
<Keybuk> if we didn't call its own init script, we couldn't rename interfaces that aren't hotplug
<infinity> Does hotplug walk all network interfaces and act on them, regardless of their actualy hotplugginess?
<infinity> s/actualy/actual/
<Keybuk> ie. users fannying around adding "auto" stuff
<Keybuk> infinity: ish. it looks at all interfaces briefly, but only processes ones it thinks it should
<infinity> Right, then we need the init script.
<infinity> If it only acts on "mapping=hotplug" ones (or whatever)
<elmo> [I haven't been following this but:]  it'd be kind of nice to not mandate hotplugging of interfaces
<Keybuk> elmo: indeed
<Keybuk> ah, we don't need to move the init script
<Keybuk> it's still before "networking"
<Keybuk> just make sure that we call it with -t in net.agent and its own init script
<infinity> I'm pretty sure that's what you said 10 minutes ago. :)
<Keybuk> that's good then, I'm in agreement with myself
<Keybuk> ok, that's really confusing now
* Keybuk puts his iftab back the way it was <g>
<Keybuk> this'd fix #13551 too
<Keybuk> (as well as #8391 & #10240)
<Keybuk> mdz: what do you reckon?  stick it in now and back it out if anyone screams?
<mdz> Keybuk:  it == -t?
<Keybuk> yeah
<Keybuk> I've had an hour of playing of renaming and swapping three interfaces on my laptop, and can't actually make it break
<Keybuk> actually, that's not true, I made it break by deliberately adding an earlier boot that ifup'd one of them -- but all it did then was said "File exists" and didn't rename either of the two involved
<mdz> Keybuk: yes, I think that's sane
<mdz> in fact I think we discussed this late in hoary as a thing to do for breezy
<daniels> mdz: makedepend needs NEWing before Mesa can build, as does the libdrm I'm uploading now
<jdub> daniels: are all the metapackage dependencies working to have xkb work by default now? it works on my desktop but not on my laptop...
<infinity> jdub : Was your laptop upgraded through several broken breezy upgrades, or a hoary->recentBreezy upgrade?
<jdub> several breezy upgrades
<jdub> i'm all about the devel branch, man
<infinity> jdub : If you stepped through the many broken breezies, that's known to be problematic, and Daniel's mail to -devel/-users gave some hints about what to do to unbreak it.
<jdub> hrm, pretty sure i did that
* jdub will look/try again
<jdub> daniels: btw, with mgp:
<jdub> imake -DUseInstalled -I/etc/X11/config/cf
<jdub> In file included from /etc/X11/config/cf/Imake.tmpl:47,
<jdub>                  from Imakefile.c:35:
<jdub> /etc/X11/config/cf/site.def:44: error: host.def: No such file or directory
<jdub> In file included from /etc/X11/config/cf/linux.cf:1085,
<jdub>                  from /etc/X11/config/cf/Imake.tmpl:106,
<jdub>                  from Imakefile.c:35:
<jdub> /etc/X11/config/cf/xorg.cf:13: error: date.def: No such file or directory
<jdub> imake: Exit code 1.
<jdub>   Stop.
<jdub> 
<infinity> jdub : Yeah, siretart saw that last night building libforms1 too.
<jdub> aha, was missing lots of files
<jdub> sorted xkb
<daniels> yeargh.  stupid diff outsmarted me.
<infinity> jdub : Missed the "--force-confmiss" step?
<jdub> yeah
<daniels> (it excludes empty files, and doesn't tell you about it)
<daniels> jdub: fix uploaded; itmt, just touch /etc/X11/config/cf/{host,date}.def
<jdub> daniels: thanks!
<jdub> d'oh, build failure anyway ;)
<jdub> draw.o: In function `xft_getdraw':
<jdub> draw.c:(.text+0x2904): undefined reference to `XftDrawCreate'
<daniels> jdub: sounds like it's wanting -lXft.  which package is this?
<jdub> mgp
<jdub> it has -lXft
<daniels> jdub: worked for me ...
<jdub> ah, it had a blank -L before it though
<jdub> must've short circuited
<daniels> daniels@brainfreeze:~% objdump -T /usr/lib/libXft.so | egrep 'XftDrawCreate$'
<daniels> 0000000000008d30 g    DF .text  00000000000000ba  Base        XftDrawCreate
<daniels> yeah, blank -L's make the baby Jesus cry
<jdub> once i deleted the -L, it was fine
<jdub> crap, and it still has the broken fonts -2 had
<daniels> svgslides is calling you
<mgalvin> daniels: just a heads up... 7439 is fixed (works for me anyway)
* Keybuk giggles at LugRadio
<Keybuk> it's nice to see people describing when ${random piece of software} will be available by what Ubuntu release it'll turn up in
<infinity> Keybuk : And what random piece of software are we shipping now? :)
<Keybuk> they were talking about gtk-using-cairo-and-running-like-a-dog :p
<TheMuso> Has anybody's 2nd stage install of Breezy colony 3 on i386 frozen at 91%? The message currently being displayed is Downloading files 5 of 6 (0s remaining)
<TheMuso> On VT 4, it appears that new packages are going to be installed. There is nothing left to download, but it is stuck at 57% and says that it is working.
<daniels> mgalvin: as in, the nvidia drivers?
<daniels> mgalvin: what problem were you having in the first place?
<mdz> elmo: if you're still around, Colin's cron jobs can be re-enabled now
<Keybuk> /etc/init.d/gdm start ... laptop goes down
* Keybuk throws nuclear ordnance at daniels
<jdub> hrm
<jdub> my battery applet is still b0rk
<jdub> hal bong!
<Keybuk> ?!  "cannot execute binary file"
<Keybuk> wtf is my laptop on?
<elmo> mdz: done
<Keybuk> no, it's not my laptop
<Keybuk> elmo: the buildds just managed to generate a binary that was all \0
<Keybuk> oh, no, wait
<Keybuk> XFS
<mgalvin> daniels: its the bug number for the issue i had where with both the installed system and the live cd X would always start up with just a blank screen... i always have to switch to con6 then back to con7 to get the display to work... this problem is fixed with the current x server
<mgalvin> it starts up normally now
<mgalvin> on intel i810 graphic chipsets
<daniels> mgalvin: oh, ok
<daniels> mgalvin: thanks
<mgalvin> np
<krystoff> hi there 
<krystoff> wanna know where i can find docs about the way do well-done packages for ubuntu ?
<rbelem> krystoff, hi...
<krystoff> :)
<rbelem> look these links
<rbelem> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingTips
<rbelem> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
<krystoff> thx a lot
<rbelem> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<krystoff> yes i m on this one :)
<rbelem> http://www.nl.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/
<rbelem> ;-)
<Keybuk> so, err, silly question time -- do we have either a ppc or amd64 machine I can debug something on?
<rbelem> there are more links at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodrigoBelem
<krystoff> in fact i have a source .tar.gz and wanna create a package with it ... i m looking for the right info ?
<mdz> Keybuk: yes
<rbelem> krystoff, yep ;-)
<Keybuk> I'm guessing I never got accounts on those while I was in the lp team? :p
<mdz> Keybuk: concordia.ubuntu.com is an amd64
<krystoff> ok thx a lot rbelem 
<Keybuk> don't have an account on that
<infinity> Keybuk : And you want davis for ppc.  (which yo umay also no have an account on)
<infinity> But with fewer typos.
<jdub> mjg59: ping
<Keybuk> yah; some elmo-worshipping needed tomorrow I think
<Keybuk> jdub: dude, I'm awake ... you expect someone else from the UK to be?
<daniels> Keybuk: elmo was until very recently
<jdub> Keybuk: you might be keeping him awake :)
<Keybuk> he slept on the SOFA
<jdub> well, get some matches and some spare plastic lying around
<jdub> and stick it where the oxygen don't burn
<daniels> i thought oxygen never burnt, but just acted as a catalyst
<rbelem> krystoff, ;-) 
<krystoff> ok it seems big work to do :)
<krystoff> rbelem ok the first thing i have to do is a chroot env right ?
<bob2> well, that's handy
<fabbione> morning
<Keybuk> uh-oh, fabbione's awake; must be bed time! :p
<Keybuk> heyhey fabio!  *hugs*
<fabbione> hey Keybuk 
<Keybuk> how you doing?
<mdz> good morning sir fabio
<fabbione> still jetlagged that you are awake so late?
<fabbione> hey mdz...
<Keybuk> I'm not sure it's jet-lag, but just my usual inability to sleep at times other people consider normal
<fabbione> Keybuk: injecting the first liter of coffee in my blood
<fabbione> i am not even awake yet :P
<fabbione> mdz: congrat with Colony 3. i am going to break a couple of things for a day... need to upload a new kernel with ABI change and all the rest to realling the overall
<fabbione> mdz: the usual abi change drill
<mdz> fabbione: I thought you were joking about that
<fabbione> no i wasn't...
<fabbione> but we are not ready for upload yet.
<fabbione> i need to finish the test builds around first
<mdz> fabbione: when you are ready, try to coordinate as much as possible to minimize the breakage
<fabbione> (we are almost there)
<mdz> get the source, builds, seed changes, and d-i build done in quick succession
<fabbione> mdz: yup.. i already have all the other packages ready.
<fabbione> i will need somebody with super power to new the overall
<fabbione> or somebody to give me super power to do so
<mdz> elmo and I usually don't sleep at the same time
<fabbione> yes i know.. don't worry.. i didn't plan to make a mess around :)
<mdz> what is your estimated launch time?
<fabbione> tomorrow morning.. probably at this time
<fabbione> it depends how fast i can manage to test build today
<mdz> your/elmo's morning or mine?
<fabbione> my time
<mdz> this lithuanian beer is pretty tasty
<fabbione> ehehhe
<mdz> stevea is not the only worthwhile thing coming from lithuania
<Keybuk> I think BjornT would resent that
<mdz> oh, that's right
<mdz> he seems to spend so little time there I forgot he was native
<fabbione> mdz: i might also prepare all the packages for you and you can do the upload/NEW dance your morning..
<fabbione> if you prefer that solution
<Keybuk> and stevea really comes from lancashire, and just pretends to be lituanian ;P
<mdz> he doesn't pretend very well
<Keybuk> this is true
<mdz> unless lithuanians really like eggs
* daniels winces, fires mesa at main.
<luis_> tseng: you around?
<mdz> colony 3 isn't on distrowatch yet; ladislav must be sleeping
<Keybuk> he's cutting down on the eggs
<Keybuk> didn't touch a single one in Brazil
<daniels> Keybuk: ?!?
<daniels> Keybuk: you're sure this was the real SteveA, and not an infiltrator
<Keybuk> it was the real one, nobody else has psychic hair
<whiprush_> luis_: your test pdf blows up my evince in breezy
<mdz> Keybuk: that one deserves an explanation
<Keybuk> have you never noticed that SteveA's hair reflects his mood?
<Keybuk> when he's relaxed, laid-back, or (more usually) drunk -- it gets very fluffy and wavey
<Keybuk> but if he's stressed or angry about something, it goes flat and straight
<luis_> whiprush_: I'm running HEAD, not breezy perse, and I believe there is a cairo bug in the last release wrt evince and fonts
<whiprush_> ah ok, good to know
<mdz> Keybuk: it's not so much psychic as empathic
<Keybuk> perhaps
<fabbione> Keybuk: i had an insane idea for dpkg...
<fabbione> Keybuk: when you are more fresh we should talk about it
<fabbione> it might tickle your imagination :)
<Keybuk> actually, I'm pretty fresh now
<mdz> you're always pretty fresh
<Keybuk> I am?
<fabbione> ok :)
<mdz> in one sense or another
* Keybuk worries
* infinity snickers.
<daniels> you win
<fabbione> hehe
<fabbione> Keybuk: the idea is to kill metapackages. they are horribly boring to maintain and keep around.
<fabbione> Keybuk: some part of it is implemented already as task
<Keybuk> I dunno, he's been my boss just three days, and he's already getting offensive :p
<fabbione> Keybuk: but it's not exactly the same
<Keybuk> i'm listening
<fabbione> so my idea was to introduce a keyword in the control file like:
<fabbione> PartOf: $package_foo
<fabbione> so N package that are part of package foo, will be automatically installed if you ask apt to install foo...
<daniels> don't we already have the Task: field for this?
<fabbione> without having a metapackage called foo
<Keybuk> that does sound remarkably exactly the same as the way Tasks work now
<fabbione> daniels: this is more dynamic.. tasks are maintained at archive level
<Keybuk> stick Task: wibble in a bunch of packages
<Keybuk> aptitude install ~twibble
<daniels> fabbione: err, last I checked, Task: was done in a control field
<mdz> Keybuk: I am completely tame; I leave the offense to sabdfl
<fabbione> hmmm
<fabbione> Keybuk: i tought that Task was for archive only...
<fabbione> if that's the case, than no. it's no need of Task:
<fabbione> s/Task/PartOf
<Keybuk> you can stick Task: in control files and Packages files and stuff
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> than forget my idea :)
<fabbione> DANKE
<Keybuk> good idea though :p
* fabbione auto-kthxbyes himself
<mdz> the difference between tasks and metapackages is that metapackages have state
<fabbione> mdz: yes.. that was the idea in PArtOF.. to keep a state...
<fabbione> but well i guess it's no point..
<mdz> fabbione: how so?
<Keybuk> yeah, it'd be nice to be able to remember whether a task was "installed" or not and use that in the calculation for the auto stuff
<Keybuk> I'm sure mvo and I talked about that in UDU
<mdz> if we implemented metapackages using properly-handled Recommends, that would be very close to the ideal semantics
<Keybuk> "properly-handled" ?
<mdz> aptitude/dselect semantics
<mdz> rather than, say, apt-get semantics
<mdz> you know, it would go a long way toward that if I just got rid of apt-get
<Keybuk> $ apt-get install foo
<Keybuk>  ______________
<Keybuk> < use aptitude >
<Keybuk>  --------------
<Keybuk>         \   ^__^
<Keybuk>          \  (oo)\_______
<Keybuk>             (__)\       )\/\
<Keybuk>                 ||----w |
<Keybuk>                 ||     ||
<mdz> if aptitude did build-dep I could totally get away with it
<mdz> replace apt-get with a shell script and see if anyone notices
<Lathiat> haha Keybuk 
<daniels> mdz: dude, you have a hard enough time convincing people that dselect is a bad idea.  htf do you expect to slip apt-get by them?
<mdz> daniels: I only have a hard time convincing *Colin*
<Keybuk> and elmo
<daniels> mdz: (and elmo)
<Keybuk> my plans to move dselect into universe for breezy have failed :'(
<mdz> elmo is beyond hope
<mdz> Keybuk: how so?
<Keybuk> I guess you'd also have to include iwj in that list now too
<mdz> it is not too late, as far as I'm concerned :-P
<Keybuk> elmo suggested that it was his project, and his ftp archive, and there was no way he was going to run universe software on our servers, so ergo it wouldn't go in
<daniels> mdz: sure, scott can ask for it to be moved, but you say that like it has any gravity
<Keybuk> and as he was the only person with the button to make that change, etc.
<daniels> right
<mdz> he isn't anymore
<mdz> but 2 of the 3 people with that power are dselect weenies
<Keybuk> though it was much louder, with more swearing and funnier; because elmo said it
<calc> dselect rox
<Lathiat> peopel still use dselect?
<LaserJock> have any of you install Breezy from Colony 3?
* calc uses dselect
<mdz> LaserJock: yes, I do tend to do that a few times before announcing a release ;-)
<Keybuk> Lathiat: I know of at least one person who still uses the dpkg ftp method, and dselect; and doesn't even have apt installed
<Lathiat> dselect caused me much paino when i started on debian, its ui was horrid.
<Lathiat> i never really use aptitude tho
<Lathiat> i just use apt-cache and apt-get
<LaserJock> mdz: I had trouble getting things installed smoothly, aptitude keeps freezing
<calc> LaserJock: aptitude sorting is horrid
<mdz> LaserJock: hardware problems?
* infinity notes that he also is a "dselect weenie"
<Keybuk> I use aptitude
<calc> LaserJock: if aptitude got decent sorting it could probably be a useful replacement for dselect
<LaserJock> mdz: I was having trouble with X
<Keybuk> I've given up even testing dselect these days :)  I figure if I break it, the only people who care will fix it for me
<LaserJock> I keep rebooting and it seems to get further
<LaserJock> but X seems to be spotty too
<Keybuk> LaserJock: freezing where, out of interest?
<LaserJock> Keybuk: I had a hard time getting through the first reboot
<Keybuk> LaserJock: which bit was freezing though, what was on screen at the time?
<mdz> LaserJock: run a memory test
<mdz> there's one available from the grub menu
<LaserJock> downloading 9 out of 10 .. something or another
<mdz> Keybuk: LWN article on autopackage
<mdz> it doesn't include even one occurrence of the word "crack"
<LaserJock> BTW, Colony 2 worked fine
<mdz> LaserJock: if you still have colony 2, try it again and see if it still works
<LaserJock> well, I'm dual booting with Hoary, does that count?
<AndyFitz> mfz,  even mike hearn has mentioned that its crack :-)
<Keybuk> wasn't someone else complaining about the same thing earlier?
<Keybuk> TheMuso Has anybody's 2nd stage install of Breezy colony 3 on i386 frozen at 91%? The message currently being displayed is Downloading files 5 of 6 (0s remaining)
<Keybuk> TheMuso On VT 4, it appears that new packages are going to be installed. There is nothing left to download, but it is stuck at 57% and says that it is working.
<mdz> Keybuk: not that I've heard
<AndyFitz> but it was usefuly for inkscape development snapshots
<mdz> LaserJock: when you say "freezing", do you mean the system hangs, or the progress bar stops being updated?
<ajmitch> mdz: so you don't want the autopackage installer in universe? :)
<mdz> LaserJock: try alt+f4 or such
* mdz glares at ajmitch
<LaserJock> other vt's work
<mdz> oh, ok
<LaserJock> I do top and I there is 0 CPU activity
<mdz> perhaps a network issue, then
<LaserJock> it is exactly ad Keybuk said
<LaserJock> *as
<Keybuk> why does the CD download stuff?  language packs?
<ajmitch> I'm just surprised that noone requested autopackage on the universe candidates list
<mdz> Keybuk: a bug
<mdz> Keybuk: (yes, language packs)
<ajmitch> afternoon jsgotangco 
<mdz> ajmitch: well, the author did come by and say we were wasting our time packaging things and that we should use autopackage instead
<jsgotangco> hi
<LaserJock> well, i'm not so worried about the install thing because I restarted a few times and it got farther each time and I think it is done
<Keybuk> Users have often been heard to complain, however, that the GNOME hackers Know Too Much to listen to those cries as they follow the One True Course. A tendency by some developers to describe user requests as "crack" probably has not helped in this regard.
<Keybuk> *giggle*
<LaserJock> however, I installed the nvidia drivers and now X doesn't work
<TheMuso> Keybuk: I was able to get past it though. I had to kill a process, can't remember what it was however. I am going to attempt an install on PowerPC as well and if I get the same problem, I will let you know.
<Lathiat> Keybuk: haha
<mdz> Keybuk: "crack" totally started as an Ubuntu-ism, not a GNOME-ism
<Keybuk> it did
<mdz> now all the cool kids are saying it
<jsgotangco> hehe
<Keybuk> way back in London
<AndyFitz> its been heard of before within redhat
<mdz> "way the hell back"
<Keybuk> when mdz had hair
<AndyFitz> nobody knows where it came from
<mdz> almost 18 months!
<mdz> Keybuk: I temporarily had hair in London
<daniels> eh, crack was a debianism
<Keybuk> I'll have been at this company 18 months in just two weeks
<mdz> daniels: debian described people as being "on crack" or "smoking crack", but not the ideas themselves as "crack"
<mdz> Keybuk: having fun yet? ;-)
<daniels> mdz: point
<mdz> jdub: what was OSCON like?
<whiprush_> I'm pretty sure "crack" was a gnome-ism from a long time back.
<whiprush_> "That said, the goal is a "mainstream" rather than "UNIX" desktop and that goal has always been explicit. So _when_ there's a tradeoff or conflict the needs of office workers will win out over those of a 20-year UNIX sysadmin. Not a secret."
<mdz> whiprush_: this debate will go down in the annals of history next to "who put the bomp in the bomp-she-bomp"
<whiprush_> heh, havoc rocks.
<daniels> mdz: THE CHICKEN!
<Keybuk> mdz: things are improving, certainly
<mdz> we should have an Ubuntu vs. GNOME ultimate frisbee match to settle it
<whiprush_> so, jam was on the linux link tech show tonight, lots of good ltsp and ubuntu publicity.
<mdz> yeah, he mentioned it on #ltsp
<mdz> is the show available for download?
<Keybuk> ah yes, isn't that lugradio without all the foul-mouthed ubuntu-worship? :p
<whiprush_> I believe it is a few hours after the cas.
<robitaille> mdz: http://www.tllts.info/archives/tllts_97-08-17-05.ogg
<mdz> thanks
<whiprush_> they did it live though, the first 30 minutes is them struggling with asterisk.
<whiprush_> pretty painfull.
<LaserJock> does anybody know how to diagnose why X won't start when there aren't any errors in the X log?
<jdub> mdz: pretty good. it's like lca but with a very corporate attendee profile (very expensive conference). heaps more web and scripting stuff.
<mdz> hah, this is hilarious
<mdz> they have a pretty pro-sounding voiceover guy
<whiprush_> yeah
<whiprush_> it has like, voiceover repeats and stuff.
<whiprush_> "This Sunday, SUNDAY! Watch monster trucks take on LINUX!"
<mdz> jdub: there should be an oscon which is about operating systems
<robitaille> jdub: were the mailing lists ever moved to a server with spamassassin? (wondering if the spams I reject as a list admin is the iceberg, or the tip of one)
<`anthony> jdub: don't forget lots of vendor-supplied free alcohol!
<jdub> mdz: i think they call it USENIX, but it's all lame now.
<mdz> jdub: USENIX is totally has-been
<jdub> robitaille: haven't been moved yet, no, but will be doing SA in the interim.
* ajmitch hopes that a few ubuntu people turn up to LCA'06
<`anthony> isn't lca06 in foreign places?
<jsgotangco> its in dunedin
<jsgotangco> NZ
<ajmitch> `anthony: yeah, the other australian state
<mdz> ouch, clipping
<jsgotangco> january is summer right?
<Keybuk> ajmitch: I've tried to submit a talk, and have tried to bribe the panel to accept it, so we'll see :p
<whiprush_> jdub: oy you going to make it this way for ohiolinux?
<jdub> whiprush_: it's looking like a no
<jdub> otherwise i'm going to be away from home for months on end
<Keybuk> . o O { Whatever happened to Ubuntu Weekly News ? }
<whiprush_> k
<jdub> if my travel schedule materialises as I think
<Keybuk> s/Weekly News/Traffic/
<mdz> Keybuk: the fridge ate it
<Keybuk> the fridge never happened though, did it?
<jdub> we didn't have a UWN
<jdub> Keybuk: fridge is happening as we speak
<whiprush_> Keybuk: yeah dude, get with it.
<jdub> we still need a traffic regardless of fridge
<jsgotangco> where?
<daniels> mdz: can we please move libglut3-dev from universe to main kthx
<daniels> mdz: it's a dependenciy of freeglut3-dev (main), which makes it uninstallable
<mdz> daniels: is it a new source?
<daniels> mdz: and the rest of the glut source package seems to be in main
<daniels> mdz: no
<whiprush_> jdub: jam and I will do an ubuntu talk at ohiolinux, probably gonna have aseigo do a few slides wrt. kubuntu.
<infinity> mdz : No, the source is glut, which is alreayd in main.
<Keybuk> "If a project provides an autopackage, you know it can work on your distribution."
<mdz> daniels: what's the name of the source package?
<Keybuk> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<mdz> infinity: tx
<whiprush_> jdub: I heard your slides are very rip off-able ...
<daniels> mdz: but it is required for mesa to build (feel free to ponder the irony of the libGL build requiring the GL Utility Toolkit, which is built on top of libGL)
<mdz> daniels: done
<Keybuk> yes, especially when it provides a file that gets overwritten by something provided by something else
<daniels> mdz: thanks
<mdz> cancel that
<LaserJock> is there any reason that the nividia drivers (installed from synaptic) would prevent X from starting? 
<mdz> attempted, but failed
<jdub> whiprush_: hrm, dunno about that, my talks are mgp
<infinity> ...
<jdub> whiprush_: but my talk will be up soon with slides
<daniels> erm
<mdz> I think katie is pissed about the fact that it's the same version in warty, hoary and breezy
<whiprush_> jdub: you're so sun dude. it's all about ME ME ME.
<whiprush_> :p
<jdub> there's a tarball of slide images though
<`anthony> jdub: mgp?
<jdub> magicpoint
<mdz> daniels: should be sorted now
<daniels> thanks
<AndyFitz> jdub,  get the font ?
<jdub> yep
<jdub> you should pitch it to the kubuntu guys, to fix up their ugly k
<jdub> the m and w are a bit square
<jdub> the z doesn't seem to fit, either
<AndyFitz> yeah they used to be 2 n's   but they looked a bit weird.  I'll try lowering the arches a step to round them off
<mdz> z is important
<AndyFitz> the Z and the X are the 2 glyphs I'm having trouble with
<AndyFitz> I just can't sex them up
<jdub> actually, most of the characters with straight lines look a little odd
<jdub> v, x
<jdub> c doesn't look round enough
<mdz> the font was designed as a curvy roundy thing
<AndyFitz> v is curved a little ( on janes request )
<jdub> yeah, doesn't quite go though; perhaps thinner would work
<AndyFitz> the d,be,h&p are all the same shape ( as in the logo )
<jdub> the s is not very curvy, for a curvy character in a curvy font
<jdub> the numbers are all a bit whacky ;-) ;-)
<AndyFitz> hrm  yeah it used to be even straighter.  I'll curve it a bit more ( no more horizontal beziers )
<Gman> whiprush_, hey, what's wrong with sun!?!? don't forget there's an 'S' in sun....'share' :)
<`anthony> AndyFitz: You're designing a font, and asking for opinions? dear gods, you're in for a world of hurt.
<jdub> e is great
<jdub> that seems to fit more closely than the s style
<AndyFitz> and the numbers suck :-P   the title font shouldnt have uppercase glyphs and I don't see numbers / symbols coming into it either  but I'll let them evolve
<whiprush_> Gman: man, I thought you were asleep. :p
<lamont> mdz/fabbione: what change do I need to make to the livecd script?
<jdub> AndyFitz: controversial suggestion - wonder what f is like without a complete crossbar? :)
<fabbione> lamont: ????
<jdub> everything up to l is rad
<mdz> lamont: clear out /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d I think
<mdz> lamont: but perhaps check with mvo to be certain
<jdub> m looks flat
<mdz> maybe just touch a file instead
<fabbione> ah yeah...
<jdub> nopqr rad
<AndyFitz> `anthony:  it seems everyone has their pet peeve glyph.   mine is X  keybuk's is Z I think  and jdubs is S.  ( janes was V ) and a mates was W
<jdub> s seems uncurvy
<fabbione> lamont: one sec...
<jdub> tu rad
<AndyFitz> jdub,  I
<jdub> v curvy weird
<jdub> w flat like m
<jdub> x seems too harshly sharp
<jdub> y rad
<jdub> z flat/sharp
<fabbione> lamont: ./var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/
<`anthony> jdub: just use comic sans MS ;)
<AndyFitz> 'll send you the svg source linework and have a quick play.   it takes a bit to turn it into a typeface  but if you can throw me some ideas back in vector it'd be alot of help
<fabbione> as mdz said
<lamont> wow - i386 is > 92% current
<jdub> AndyFitz: perhaps with vxz, thinner is the way to go - the bounding box looks square compared to the rectangular bound of the other glyphs
<AndyFitz> okay,  so X,Z,M,Wand S  all need a little ubuntu-love
<fabbione> lamont: what about sparc?
<lamont> fabbione: so rm -f var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/*?
<jdub> AndyFitz: if vxz were as thin as u, that might work
<lamont> i386 92.21% 5993 of 6499
<lamont> powerpc 91.44% 5778 of 6319
<lamont> amd64 90.68% 5692 of 6277
<lamont> ia64 90.18% 5638 of 6252
<lamont> hppa 76.81% 4795 of 6243
<lamont> sparc 75.10% 4715 of 6278
<AndyFitz> jdub yeah,  I think I'll try and wave the x a little in a slight curve like the V  the Z is a nightmare
<fabbione> lamont: for what is my concern, that would do.. 
<ajmitch> AndyFitz: this going to be public for us to look at?
* jdub doesn't dig the curve
<jdub> if it were thin as the u, that would probably solve jane's request
<jdub> whiprush_: man, all the boring chitter at the start of this show... yeesh ;)
<AndyFitz> ajmitch,   its actually a bounty. I don't know what the rules are but I'm happy to make what I have public
<lamont> mdz: now that base lacks postfix, could you have casper quit nuking it?  (that way if someone builds a derived CD with postfix, it'll actually work...)
<lamont> or have a chance of it anyway
<whiprush_> jdub: yeah, the production quality is pretty crap.
<AndyFitz> jdub,  thanks for the valuable feedback.  I'll change the XVZ now
<jdub> desrt: the assignment for the kernel bug was correct
<desrt> ben collins?
<jdub> whiprush_: i bet they don't swear either
<jdub> desrt: yeah
<desrt> oh.  weird
<jdub> jbailey: hey, is DSDT loading working?
<whiprush_> jdub: they do, not like the lugradio guys though
<desrt> whenever i file new ones, they go to fabbio
<whiprush_> only the occasional "shit" or so.
<AndyFitz> omfg.   evince is brilliant
<lamont> mdz: any other livecd tweaks you'd like?
* desrt puts it back
<jbailey> jdub: Nope.  Requires a kernel patch that I didn't get to today.  I hope to have it to Fabio by end of my day tomorrow, though.
<AndyFitz> 10 points to whoever implemented proper text selection
<jdub> daniels: whoa, big upgrade
<jdub> jbailey: aha
<jdub> jbailey: that must be why my acpi reporting is so *BONG* :-)
<whiprush_> jdub: what the world really needs is a mjg59 radio show.
<daniels> jdub: big upgrade?
<whiprush_> get all of the swear words out at once.
<jdub> daniels: xorg
<daniels> jdub: dude, -50 was like 28 hours ago
<Keybuk> whiprush_: we tried to persuade him to do a "Matthew's Angry Hour" at debconf last year
<jdub> lots of goodies
<daniels> jdub: i have bigger and cooler planned for xorg
<jbailey> jdub: Quite probably.  initramfs-tools loads the DSDT.aml file into the right place, the kernel just doesn't look there yet.
<Keybuk> we'd give him a microphone and poke him with sticks to make him angry
<Keybuk> sadly mjg59 is disappointing in real life
<jdub> jbailey: ahar.
<daniels> jdub: like getting rid of all the shared libraries except libXfont
<doko> good morning
<jdub> Keybuk: not once he's inebriated.
<daniels> Keybuk: except when he yells out 'FUCK.  YOU.' and hurls a CD across the room, almost decapitating pitti.
<ajmitch> morning doko 
<Keybuk> mdz: you are a bad man, you have caused me to blog
<whiprush_> I recall him being pretty vulgar when drinking
<jdub> AndyFitz: huge number of the glyphs are spot on - well done, that's really bloody hard stuff :-)
<AndyFitz> jdub, thanks mate.  when its done I'll publish the fontforge / inkscape sources with glyph making instructions on the ArtTeam wiki so that i18n guys can add their glyphs and the font will grow
<Keybuk> it's not complete without a glyph for  and 
<jsgotangco> nice
<AndyFitz> hehe
<mdz> Keybuk: dude, you were blogging before you ever met me
* daniels remembers the Oxford session on blogging
<Keybuk> "The Jeff And Scott Roadshow"
<jbailey> daniels: There was a session on blogging?
<mdz> it warms my heart to know that our default desktop font has 
<robitaille> jdub: according to firefox, the xml at http://planet.ubuntu.com/rss20.xml  is "not well-formed"
<jdub> there's probably a & in someone's title
<Keybuk> what's worrying is that the only time I've ever been to my local LUG *STILL* is that time Jeff and I went up there during Oxford
<jdub> it was a very small LUG
<Keybuk> wolveslug is even smaller
<daniels> jbailey: you were at Oxford?
<jbailey> daniels: No.
<daniels> jbailey: right
<jbailey> daniels: But I don't remember reading about that.
<daniels> jbailey: but yeah, there was.  the jeff and scott roadshow.
<AndyFitz> better to be a pirate than join the navy hey ?
<daniels> jbailey: that's because it was utterly unremarkable :P
<Keybuk> unremarkable?!  it was a talk with the word "motherfucker" in it
<jdub> did we say motherfucker?
<jdub> oh!
<jdub> yeah, that's right
<jdub> that was the joke
<daniels> Keybuk: dude, elmo was there
<jdub> well, the one we prepared
<daniels> Keybuk: one mention of the word 'motherfucker' is utterly unremarkable compared to the security support bof
<whiprush_> heh, someone who blogged about oscon blogged about how much jdub swore.
<jdub> that was `anthony 
<Keybuk> dude, that was the _only_ preperation we did for that!
<whiprush_> "it must be more acceptable in .au" or something to that effect.
<daniels> the fucking security fucking support bof fucking involved a fucking lot of fucking mentions of the fucking word 'fucking'.
<Keybuk> daniels: that BOF was intense
<jdub> whiprush_: context -> `anthony is australian
<Keybuk> there was a lot of fucking
<whiprush_> ah
<daniels> Keybuk: that's the one
<whiprush_> warning: this show might contain language.
<Keybuk> and elmo getting very angry that mdz wouldn't tell him if there was a kernel exploit in the wild which affected his precious data centre :p
<mdz> Keybuk: I thought the fucking BOF was in mataro
<jdub> uh oh
<daniels> mdz: no, the fucking bof was in oxford
<jdub> BenC: dude, you put "Ubuntu Linux" in your sig
<Keybuk> mdz: god know, it's far too far down the quotes page to be in Mataro
<jdub> BenC: itym "Ubuntu" :-)
<daniels> mdz: it was one of my first introductions to elmo
<whiprush_> Keybuk: expect to be stormed by 30498750348 autopackage fans.
<Keybuk> oh yes, you'd never met elmo before
<daniels> no, no I hadn't
<Keybuk> strangely, the first time I met elmo, he was quiet and reserved
<daniels> Keybuk: what, was he asleep?
<Keybuk> except when he fled like a girl when Steve lit the BBQ with petrol
<Lathiat> has anyone noticed X randomly getting stuck with a cursor like a resize widget or a hand, meaning you can't do anythign and can't get rid of it? i've had it happen a few times
<Lathiat> and by stuck i mean its stuck in some mode trying to do something with said cursor, you cant actually click on anything, or whatever
<jsgotangco> lol
<daniels> Lathiat: gtk bug
<daniels> Lathiat: hasn't released a grab
<Lathiat> daniels: yay
<Keybuk> really?  I tend to get those with Mozilla
<jdub> Keybuk: gtk bug :-)
<mdz> Keybuk: you use mozilla (-browser)?
<Keybuk> I got those with mozilla since before gtk even existed :)
<Lathiat> daniels: can i do something to force it to ungrab?
<Lathiat> short of restarting mjy xsession
<Keybuk> mdz: where Mozilla is a generic term to describe any output from MosaicCorp/Netscape/AOL/MoFo etc.
<mdz> Lathiat: shoot your computer
<Lathiat> ok so it was gnome panel cus i killed it and now i have no mouse cursor at all
<daniels> haha, awesome
<Lathiat> oh wait it came back
<Lathiat> yay
<daniels> there's ctrl-shift-numpad/ or something and numpad*
<mdz> daniels,infinity: are you guys going to need any more archive love tonight?
<daniels> which ostensibly kill all open grabs, and kill all clients with open grabs
<daniels> mdz: yes, when mesa finishesbuilding we'll need binary NEWs
<Lathiat> oh cool
<mdz> ok, I should be around for that
<daniels> but I think those key combos have been broken since about 4.3
<Lathiat> daniels: what, like xscreensaver? :)
<mdz> but at some point I'll sleep
<daniels> Lathiat: heh.  that's why it's not enabled by default, presumably.
<Lathiat> whcih kindly kills your x session if that happens tho
<Lathiat> i tried to kill it when i had it lock my screen on the hoary live cd
<Lathiat> and then it went kapoof :)
<Lathiat> should have killed its little manager at the same time
<mdz> mako: dude, you spelled Minsky's name wrong in your blog
<infinity> mdz : Beyond mesa (which is building right now), we should be okay on our own.
<daniels> infinity: you sound like we're in grade 3 and you're accompanying me to the toilet or something
<daniels> 'we're big kids now!'
<infinity> *cough*
<Lathiat> with training nappys
<Keybuk> I don't think they do them in daniels's size
<daniels> hey, I'm a small, delicate flower
<Keybuk> in the body of someone who fell into the potion as a baby
<infinity> And forvermore, I shall call him Obelix.  Thanks.
<daniels> must've been all the margarine I habitually ate before I was 10
* jdub gets to the ubuntu-pimping bit
<daniels> which is roughly when I started growing stupid tall
<Lathiat> not by itself, right?
<daniels> out of the tub with a spoon, yes
<Lathiat> ew
<daniels> yes
<Lathiat> wtf dude that makes me sick ;p
<AndyFitz> infinity:  brisbane is the new melbourne.  we have snobs too now
<whiprush_> infinity: are you the network-manager dude now?
<daniels> AndyFitz: sydney has the pretensious snobs.  we have things that are *actually* cool.
<daniels> AndyFitz: brisbane just aspire to be pretensious.
<infinity> whiprush_ : Yes, but if you have high hopes for it making it to breezy, I'd place your faith elsewhere.  The more I look at it (and the further we get past feature freeze), the more it looks like it's just too immature to get it happy.
<daniels> network-manager wants a pony
<whiprush_> :-/
<infinity> whiprush_ : But I'm all for help on improving it in universe with an eye to actually having something useful for breezy+1.
<whiprush_> it was working pretty well most of the cycle.
<infinity> For some value of "working well" that doesn't really mesh with my idea of "should be on every desktop"...
<whiprush_> question:
<AndyFitz> daniels.  we have the resindogs.  and sydney has the avalanches.  melb has the cat empire.. ( I think )  that says a bit
<daniels> AndyFitz: um, dude.  we have tzu, bias b, muphin (and plutonic lab also), j-red, selekt, dexta (dj from the avalanches) is from melbourne ...
<whiprush_> if you don't think it'll make it, moving it out to universe would mean more leeway as far as updating it right?
<AndyFitz> daniels: bam
<bob2> dext*er*
<bob2> who is coming here soon
<bob2> and brisbane has the resin dogs, > avalanches (who broke up)
<infinity> whiprush_ : It's in universe already.
<Mithrandir> 'morning
<whiprush_> oh, thought it had moved to main.
<infinity> whiprush_ : And yes, I'm sure we'd rather have something that works in universe than something that doesn't.
<daniels> bob2: dext*a*.
<AndyFitz> bob2  arent the avalanches releasing a new albumb ?
<Keybuk> one thing always worried me about network-manager
<Keybuk> it seems to spend all of its time bringing interfaces up and down
<infinity> whiprush_ : I've had some feedback from a few people, will update to the latest CVS, and have some integration changes to make, but even with all of those, I've run into some "gotchas" that I think make it just not ready for primetime in ubuntu-desktop.
<Keybuk> when it could just leave them up and change the default route a bit
<whiprush_> infinity: I've been playing with it for like 4 months, didn't know you had taken maintainership of it.
<Keybuk> whiprush_: he touched it last
<whiprush_> I'll pull from cvs tomorrow and do stuff.
<whiprush_> oh
<daniels> bob2: unless he's changed his name from what it used to be.  and his brother is kuya.  one year, dexta was the defending champion from .au (2000? 2001?), and came up against kuya in the nationals, because kuya won victoria.
<infinity> Keybuk : Actually, it was thrown at me, and I can't seem to wipe it off.
<whiprush_> heh
<infinity> mdz : mesa should be ready for binary NEW.
<AndyFitz> daniels,   I saw dexta do a set at last splendour in the grass.  the man has skillz that kills
<daniels> but tzu/bias b/muphin (with or without plutonic)/pegz/matty b/lyrical commission/etc > resins
<whiprush_> infinity: all I can offer is some testing and a bottle of liquor at the next ubuntu conference, heh.
* infinity runs off to the grocery store to stock up for the long night of rebuilds ahead.
<bob2> daniels: google says 4960 vs 587, to the charming young man fron the capital
<infinity> whiprush_ : Testing is much appreciated.  Code would also be handy. :)
<whiprush_> heh, now you ask the impossible!
<whiprush_> for me anyway. :p
<infinity> whiprush_ : Catch me when I get back, if you're still around, so I can pick your brain about the current state of affairs.
<daniels> bob2: hm?
<whiprush_> okey
<daniels> bob2: and they're all better than koolism also
<bob2> daniels: dj.dexta vs dj.dexter hits
<bob2> daniels: dexter does not appear to give shouts out to spencer street station
<mdz> infinity: done
<infinity> mdz : Danke.
* infinity -> groceries.
<daniels> bob2: that's because we can just say melbourne and everyone knows we rock, rather than having to namecheck libraries and art galleries etc
<Keybuk> right -> bed
<\sh> morning
<\sh> who is responsible for the bts importer to bugzilla?
<daniels> i swear autoconf is just taunting me at this point
<daniels> \sh: mdz
<\sh> eeks
* lamont sleeps
* \sh should go to work...but when reading ubuntu-bugs
<robitaille> \sh: yeah, mdz turned it on again a few hours ago; I think the importer had been off for quite a while...
<\sh> bad bad bad
<\sh> many dupes of already resolved and fixed bugs
<\sh> ok...will try to mark them as that
<robitaille> it's too bad our weekly bug day was yesterday :)
<\sh> anyways...it's not good to have old bugs reopened by debian bts again
<\sh> ok..have to go to work first...then the rest :)
<\sh> later dudes
<sivang> morning all
<jdub> daniels: QUESTACON!
<desrt> the laptop team template is really good
<jdub> elmo: planet update please :-)
<daniels> jdub: questacon is crap.  their only draw is still that 'run against cathy freeman' thing.
<desrt> i have problems with my laptop that i didn't even realise!
<`anthony> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/16/solaris_x86_not_too_shabby/print.html <-- "Solaris 10 will kill Linux. Oh, except that the installer sucks, and there's no device support". /me headslaps.
<AndyFitz> jdub,  update emailed
<bob2> daniels: um, and an earthquake machine.  and a lightning machine.  how many enclosed natural disasters does melbourne have?
<bob2> `anthony: hm, thursday is a "sun doesn't like linux day"?
<`anthony> bob2: less since we voted out kennett.
<AndyFitz> hahahaha
<`anthony> bob2: as opposed to the rest of the week, which is "Sun makes cheap shots at Redhat" days. You'll know Ubuntu has made it when Schwartz starts slagging it.
<AndyFitz> I went to the observation deck on melbourne and pointed to the entertainment centre and asked the guy what it was.  and  he said   "oh,  thats just jeff's shed"
<bob2> `anthony: wednesday is "Solaris is our version of Linux" day, iirc
<sivang> `anthony: just ignore the press, there's someone in .IL (a "known" technology reporter) that still claims that linux is not ready for the embedded market
<daniels> bob2: none.  because no-one wants to destroy it, unlike sydney (where your house gets destroyed every year).
<AndyFitz> kennett was a bit wacky hey ?
<jsgotangco> lol
<daniels> 'There is no /root directory, which means that all of root's stuff piles up in /, which is hardly a major problem, but perhaps not the best thing for organization.'
<daniels> AndyFitz: more sensible than Joh
<HrdwrBoB> daniels: we have REAL natural disasters
<HrdwrBoB> er bob2
<`anthony> AndyFitz: I think it was Rod Quantock who pointed out that most of Kennett's building projects featured things sticking up at 45 degree angles, around the same angle as the nazi salute. 
<daniels> HrdwrBoB: only the odd flash-flood
<AndyFitz> hahahaha
<HrdwrBoB> two in the past year and a half
<daniels> HrdwrBoB: yes, but no-one likes fairfield anyway.  full of stinky hippies.
<AndyFitz> it seems australian politics has consumed #ubuntu-devel  .   I can imagine that being frustrating to other locales
<HrdwrBoB> they might get an inferiority complex
* HrdwrBoB shush
<`anthony> So, to recap: device driver support is suck, installer is suck, management interface is suck, available software in packages is suck, no online automated security patching without paying $, but Solaris is a threat to Linux. Riiiight.
<HrdwrBoB> it's ok the reviewer can't find the 'hide messages when deleted' button
<HrdwrBoB> in evolution
<jdub> HrdwrBoB: stupid default, dude.
<HrdwrBoB> yeah
<HrdwrBoB> I totally agree
<jdub> and totally stupid functionality in the first place
<AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/Ubuntu-Title.ttf  - let it be known that I don't like the M or W
<`anthony> jdub: _obviously_ the solution is spatial deletion, where when you delete something, it moves to a different area of the screen.
<jdub> AndyFitz: aha, X is on the money
<jdub> Z is on the money
<AndyFitz> and S ??? 
<jdub> M/W... hrm... dunno
<HrdwrBoB> M/W is too .. bendy
<AndyFitz> m / w has gotten worse than the block looking ones
<daniels> HrdwrBoB: ... dude.
<jsgotangco> wow..its soo ubuntu...
<jdub> V is much closer, though would love to see non-curvy one of similar width
<AndyFitz> to keep it close to the N we need kill the curves again
<jdub> S is *really* close
<jsgotangco> n doesn't look like n at all
<jsgotangco> but i see the pattern on r
<jdub> AndyFitz: how about not having a strong centre stroke on the M/W?
<jdub> so much more like the n, but just a dip, not a complete stroke
<AndyFitz> jdub,  yeah I'll go back to the old way and cut the center stroke bit in half
<AndyFitz> I tried with the dip and it looks weird ..  like a mutated U 
<AndyFitz> but half is a nice balance 
<jdub> one thing with the k, the top stroke seems to be coming out of the bottom stroke
<AndyFitz> so it dies on the same line the X crosses
<jdub> would be good to have both joining at the same point
<AndyFitz> jdub,  yes its a lowercase K  this is a typographical technique.  the weight is too heavy with both stroked coming from the balancing line
<AndyFitz> that was the way I had it in the firstplace but it has since been modified due to it not fitting in with the rest of the set
<AndyFitz> it suits hard edges sans fonts . but not gothic-sans fonts ( and this ultimately is a fat gothic sans typeface )
<jdub> generally both meet at the same point but not in the upright
<jdub> |<
<jdub> ^ like that :-)
<jdub> only closer...
<jdub> ;)
<AndyFitz> can't be done and made to look sexy . 
<AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/ok.png
<AndyFitz> nono
<AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/K.png
<AndyFitz> damn gaim autoreplace
<jdub> well, if nothing else, the bottom one should hang from the top one
<AndyFitz> refresh http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/K.png
<AndyFitz> hrm.,  I'm picking up what you're putting down
<AndyFitz> :)
<pitti> Good morning
<ajmitch> hi pitti 
<AndyFitz> g'day pitti
<jdub> AndyFitz: hey, you're joining within the upright
<AndyFitz> jdub:  does the most left  K  suit ?
<jdub> and the first k looks better than the second :-)
<jdub> yes, vastly better :-)
<AndyFitz> agreed
<jdub> that k
<jdub> all by itself
<jdub> will make kubuntu suck less
<AndyFitz> haha
<jdub> that k has offended me for too long
<AndyFitz> spoken like a devout gnome user 
<jdub> more the typography fascist in me, than the gnome contributor
<jdub> hey, now the a is looking weird
<AndyFitz> huh ?
<AndyFitz> it always looked like that 
<jdub> yeah
<jdub> but as the other characters improve
<AndyFitz> the A has been a hassle for me 
<jsgotangco> the g looks pretty toned down to me
<AndyFitz> its hard to make it not look like an o
<jdub> how about going for an old-fashioned style a?
<AndyFitz> I thought about it but that would break the consistency on all the other curves
<AndyFitz> its possible . but would look squishy at that character height
<AndyFitz> esp with the thick lines
<pitti> jdub: does your battery applet work now with the new hal?
<jdub> pitti: you'll see some bug mess in your mail :-)
<jdub> AndyFitz: like the s
<pitti> jdub: ok, I didn't yet come that far in my mailbox...
<AndyFitz> jdub I'llshow you a screenie of it like that 
<AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/a.png
<AndyFitz> not too sexy
<jdub> hmm
<jdub> appeals to me
<jdub> dunno
<jsgotangco> it does not feel right to me
<jsgotangco> like a "bizarro" feel
<jdub> AndyFitz: maybe the normal one would benefit from being slightly wider?
<jdub> hrrm.
<jdub> no, that's rough
<AndyFitz> oops kernel panicked
<fabbione> AndyFitz: time to buy better hw
<AndyFitz> fabbione,   my lappy is still the highest spec machine dell sell
<daniels> s/spec/weight/
<AndyFitz> panics just happen 
<daniels> AndyFitz: none of this invalidates what fabbione said
<`anthony> daniels: No, that's my 5150. 
<daniels> `anthony: andy's gives it a run for its money, certainly
<daniels> `anthony: it's insane
<`anthony> this sucker's something like 5.5kgs with the powersupply.
<AndyFitz> hence I can't buy better hw  because I can no longer afford it lol
<`anthony> power supply is a monster.
<bob2> you just need an equally big hip flask to wear on the other side while carrying it
<Mithrandir> I bet it's unusable to hit people with
* bob2 cowers in the corenr
<AndyFitz> jdub: did you see the issue with the 'a'
<AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/badges.jpg  - valley market humour
<AndyFitz> jdub:  http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/Ubuntu-Title.ttf  updated
<highvoltage> AndyFitz: is that a free font?
<AndyFitz> highvoltage:  it will be released under GPL
<AndyFitz> its not released yet 
<highvoltage> ok
<AndyFitz> just updated with a dash on the 1   so you can tell it apart from the l    however its not a font for numbers symbols etc so this shouldnt matter
<AndyFitz> with a serif  mean
<lucas> hi
<AndyFitz> hi lucas
<lucas> I'm seeking confirmation for a bug about locales in X before I submit it. The bug report I intend to submit is on http://blop.info/ubuntubug.txt
<lucas> can sbody look at it and confirm the issue ?
<daniels> non-utf-8 locales may well be broken, yes.  is there any reason why you're not using utf-8?
<lucas> well, is there a good guide about utf-8 migration, dealing with using [G] VIM and vim in ssh sessions on non-UTF8 systems ?
<lucas> each time I try migrating, I end up facing issues I don't really understand
<Mithrandir> lucas: luit fixes the latter, at least.
<lucas> cool, thanks
<jdub> AndyFitz: btw, GPL is not a good choice
<lucas> daniels: for the record, I should report this bug anyway. which is the correct package ?
<jdub> fonts are regarded as computer programs in most jurisdictions
<daniels> lucas: libx11-6
<jdub> AndyFitz: hrm, i don't have any more ideas for M/W
<pitti> Hey mvo
<AndyFitz> jdub,  GPL is a good choice in my opinion.  but I'm open to suggestions 
<AndyFitz> creative commons wouldnt suit I don't think.  esp since this will be canonical's not mine so attribution would get confusing
<jdub> AndyFitz: so, consider the legal POV on using this font in, say, acrobat reader.
<mvo> hey pitti 
<infinity> 3-clause BSD, MIT, or LGPL would all be better choices for something as widely-used as a font, IMO.
<bob2> MIT/x11 4 lyf
<AndyFitz> I have no problem with LGPL if thats cool with the rest of canonical
<lucas> arg luit isn't in Ubuntu anymore :/
<jdub> an MPL derived license might be a good choice
<jdub> hrm, hmm.
<AndyFitz> sabdfl agreed to gpl so I ran with that but anything is good so long as its free enough to be distributed freely
<AndyFitz> time for this geek to skate back to the bat cave.
<AndyFitz> jdub,  thanks alot for you help.  I appreciate it.  ciao
<daniels> mdz: please update the seeds to have libgl1-mesa and libgl1-mesa-dri instead of xlibmesa-gl/libgl1-xorg and xlibmesa-dri/libgl1-xorg-dri
<jdub> hmm
* jdub considers upgrading his home server to breezy
<daniels> elmo: please remove libgl1-xorg* from the archive
<jdub> yo chmj 
<mvo> daniels: will we get r300 dri support :) ?
<daniels> mvo: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/2005-August/009480.html
* mvo hugs daniels
<daniels> mvo: that's possibly slightly misleading as we need ddx and drm updates yet, but close enough
<chmj> hey jdub 
<daniels> mvo: ddx is coming, i guess drm is close too
<mvo> daniels: that's great news! 
<seb128> hi
<pitti_> Hi seb128 
<seb128> what is great news?
<mvo> morning seb128 
<seb128> hey pitti mvo :)
<mvo> seb128: we are getting dri support for r300 based cards
<seb128> oh, cool
<daniels> yeah
<daniels> only agp though
<daniels> no-one's written pcie gart stuff for the drm though
<daniels> mdz: (nevermind)
* infinity cries about the lack of PCIe support.
<Mithrandir> daniels: does that mean "pcie cards won't work" or "pcie won't be accellerated"?
<daniels> the latter
<daniels> you don't get DRI, or good Xv
<daniels> (since good Xv requires you to be able to DMA to the card)
<seb128> elmo: around?
<\sh> gentlemen...u want to listen to a secret at my company?
<\sh> we replaced all of our sun dns machines to hp/compaq dl380 ones with hoary on it...
<infinity> Well, it won't be very secret if you disclose it in a publically logged channel.
<daniels> the only thing better than a dl380 is a dl385
<\sh> hehe..i don't mention the name of the company
<`anthony> daniels: is it worth logging a bug about fullscreen Xv support using the nv driver producing corrupted video? or will upstream just not care?
<Treenaks> \sh: congrats :)
<infinity> servereyes.de?
<\sh> infinity: no...
<daniels> if that's what passes for a secret at your company, you need to work somewhere more exciting
<daniels> unless it's novell or red hat or something (or sun) which makes it interesting
<\sh> infinity: the company which is paying me, and payed ogra before he started to work for canonical :)
<\sh> daniels: i worked for redhat ,-)
<daniels> `anthony: yeah, sure, but worth trying the nv driver from head first.  if I'm feeling particularly useful, I'll even merge in Exa support to nv first, so you can have a shiny fast desktop.
<\sh> infinity: i will talk to our PR guys...to have a real announcement for ubuntu :)
<mvo> daniels: is it worth to report a file conflict between libgl1-mesa-dev and x11proto-gl-dev? (/usr/include/GL/glx.h)
<daniels> (if the gods smile upon me, breezy will ship with exa as the default for nv and radeon.)
<daniels> mvo: no, because I've already fixed it, but I just forgot to upload x11proto-gl
<mvo> daniels: ok, thanks
<\sh> daniels: this won't happen...cause god is coming to cologne and his partner landed a couple of minutes ago in cologne/bonn airport
<\sh> s/in/at/
<daniels> mvo: fix uploaded
<daniels> (oh yeah, and maybe for sis too, but no-one cares about sis aside from twini.)
<seb128> daniels: the video card on the box that get 640x480 with hoary liveCD is an "intel 82865G"
<mvo> daniels: heh, that was fast!
<daniels> seb128: yeah, known issue.  the only bug with more dupes was the 'x is broken in ten ways' one from the start of breezy.
<daniels> mvo: well, I'd already fixed it a couple of days ago before I did mesa, just forgot to upload.
<`anthony> daniels: Exa support?
<daniels> seb128: it has slightly more dupes than 'nvidia bites', I think
<daniels> s/nvidia/&-glx/
<daniels> `anthony: shiny new acceleration architecture to replace our crappy old one.  largely cribbed from kaa in kdrive, so it makes composite accelerated and usable, and does xrender very well (its use cases during development were render and composite).
<seb128> daniels: hum, k. Going to be fixed for 5.10 ?
<daniels> `anthony: and the main exa ninja reverse-engineered large swathes of most of the nvidia chipsets one day out of sheer frustration, so nv has working exa support, including dma for uploading and downloading data. :)
<daniels> seb128: it was fixed in the first upload after hoary
<seb128> gra, ok ok
<`anthony> daniels: K. Is this going to be something (the HEAD nv driver) that I can install on a hoary box without massive massive pain? I'm completely uninterested in running breezy on it, cos it's my main work machine.
<daniels> seb128: i don't have any intel desktop kit, and I didn't get a single useful log or anything until after it was too late
<daniels> seb128: just 'oh my god how broken'
<daniels> `anthony: ha ha.
<`anthony> daniels: That's what I figured.
<daniels> `anthony: it changes the server core as well as the drivers, so no
<`anthony> I'd think about running breezy, but I'm too attached to having a working X server.
* `anthony ducks.
<\sh> `anthony: the x server is working
<`anthony> \sh: today ;)
<infinity> It's been fine for weeks.
<`anthony> I will wait a week or so, and grab a livecd to test with that.
<\sh> `anthony: it's running for weeks now...
<\sh> oh sorry...i didn't want to repeat infinity 
<doko> pitti: the dutch thing ... please don't upload, waiting for elmo to sync ...
<Mithrandir> repeat infinity can take a long time, I guess.
<pitti> doko: no, I won't
<\sh> Mithrandir: hmmmm...Freud?
<\sh> I think so
<seb128> pitti: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13678 is either for you or to close (we have 2.3.7 as current package, not sure if you fixed warty/hoary)
<pitti> seb128: ah, you also wade through the huge bug list imported from Debian?
<pitti> seb128: yes, I fixed that in a recent USN
<seb128> pitti: yet, like I had no enough bugs waiting for me, they decided to make a new wave :)
<pitti> closed
<seb128> thanks
<daniels> seb128: do you want more bugs?
<daniels> seb128: now X is split, I can happily hand off all the shitty little client-side libraries to you :P
<seb128> daniels: no thanks ;)
<pitti> bah, why don't we have jigdo files for the current images?
<daniels> seb128: it'll be great.  you'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll drink yourself to an early death.
<daniels> seb128: well, you won't really laugh, but close enough.
<seb128> I've already my fun with GNOME
<seb128> but you can try giving that to pitti by example :)
* pitti just got a whole new bunch of bugs and is completely satisfied, thanks
<daniels> seb128: think of how awesome it will be
<daniels> seb128: i'll never tell you that something's a gtk bug again
<daniels> seb128: it doesn't matter whether it's in gtk, libxrender, or libx11, because it'll always be your fault!
<daniels> seb128: it'll make life much easier
<infinity> I fully support this initiative.
<seb128> hum, thanks
<seb128> because of you I kind of like my gtk bugs now :p
<daniels> 'i am interested in your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.'
<tepsipakki> daniels: about #13362 (again)... will this exa make my life easier?-)
<Mithrandir> doko: 13660, does that affect us?
<doko> yes and no, we either need to install the correct x86_64 headers from glibc, or update amd64-libs to glibc-2.3.5. that's a jbailey thing at the moment
<daniels> tepsipakki: umm ... not at all.  the nv exa acceleration only accelerates 2d ops, no 3d.
<tepsipakki> daniels: ok
<Mithrandir> doko: ok, so I'll bump it to jbailey.
<ogra> morning
<doko> please do
<tepsipakki> daniels: I know how to get around the preseeding stuff, touch nvidia_drv.o before xserver-xorg configures
<tepsipakki> but if the config-script hasn't changed much after hoary it should still work
<tepsipakki> without that trickery
<Jimbob> daniels (or anyone): What's the diff between libgl1-xorg and libgl1-mesa in breezy?
<infinity> Jimbob : The first is going away tonight, that's the difference.  Give me time to upload and rebuild everything. :)
<Jimbob> ahh
<daniels> tepsipakki: i'm surprised that preseeding nvidia worked at all in hoary.  istr the logic being roughly the same.
<tepsipakki> well, if nvidia-glx has been unpacked, shouldn't xserver-xorg.config then notice the driver in /usr.../modules?
<lucas> daniels: any workarounds for my non-UTF-8 locales bug ? I tried for an hour, but life in UTF-8 sucks for me.
<daniels> lucas: no idea, sorry.  i'm swamped looking at other stuff.
<lucas> ok :/
<daniels> seb128: ... evince uses dbus?
<seb128> daniels: correct
<Lathiat> daniels: isnt it the factory stuff? (bonobo styles?)
<daniels> seb128: what on earth for?
<seb128> daniels: to be commanded by dbus
<daniels> seb128: ow, my head.
<tepsipakki> the new evince rocks.. it finally has proper text-selection
<infinity> seb128 : What sort of use case is there for externally driving a document reader?
* infinity boggles.
<daniels> i mean, i'm the biggest dbus cheerleader evar (ask jdub), but even I think this is a little bit insane
<daniels> just like I think one module for every tiny little script and sample app that xorg ships is slightly insane
<seb128> infinity: automated testing
<seb128> the wiki page mention " Backend sandboxing; like [WWW] Colin Walters imsep idea, run the rendering backend in an SELinux jail over DBus... call it D-Evince."
* daniels vomits.
<daniels> how about just writing a backend that isn't hideously insecure?
<daniels> alos, d-evince totally has to use dconf
<seb128> ha ha
<seb128> good one
* Nafallo smiles
<Nafallo> morning all :-)
<daniels> seb128: you think i'm joking
<seb128> this dconf stuff is a joke
<daniels> seb128: i'll make that official fd.o policy.  any d* project has to use dconf.  including d-bus.
<seb128> would be funny :)
<daniels> including dak
<daniels> dak will have to use dconf as well
<seb128> let's move dpkg on freedesktop and make it use dconf too :)
<daniels> totally
<daniels> it can't possibly get any worse than it is now :P
<tepsipakki> is there any hope of gconf getting a ldap-backend by 6.04?-)
<daniels> tepsipakki: DECONF!
<daniels> DCONF, even
<tepsipakki> heh
<daniels> seb128: you'd better watch your back, or I'm going to write a DconfSpec, SebastienBacherLead
<daniels> seb128: BreezyGoal
<Nafallo> FeautureFreeze ;-)
<Nafallo> Breezy+1
<seb128> daniels: speaking aobut spec you should better get the xine one moving :)
<daniels> dconf is too important to wait
<daniels> seb128: can't do it this week
<azeem> I thought dconf was just a step on the way to econf, as that clearly has the sexier letter in front of it
<daniels> econf will be FULLY GL-RENDERED
<daniels> and also never released, and crash all the time
<daniels> and all your settings will come out typoed
<Treenaks> daniels: ah, you've spoken to rasterman?
* Lathiat laughs
<Lathiat> i thought gconf had an ldap backend
<Lathiat> or is it non operational?
<tepsipakki> not applied
<tepsipakki> it should exist thouhg
<daniels> and stacked benchmarks of econf will come out which clearly show econf's best case it has been hand-tweaked for against gconf's worst case ever, a case that no-one uses, and then people will run around saying OMG NOT PERFORMANT WTF
<daniels> not that I'm bitter
<Lathiat> you just want a pony?
<daniels> i want several ponies
<tepsipakki> for me one of the worst "features" of GNOME/KDE is that two sessions on different machines is not supported
<Lathiat> now now don't get greedy
<\sh> hmmm...colony 3...I should manually partition my harddrive...but there is no way to do it ,-)
<ogra_> seb128: do you know if your student also made sure that the update-nootifier doesnt get run for non privileged users ? i think thats an essential thing ...
<ogra_> (just struck me)
<mvo> ogra_++
<seb128> what has that to do with my student?
<seb128> update-notifier is mvo's
<ogra_> seb128: i think he works on  a distinction mechanism fro privileged/unprivileged users
<seb128> that's not app specific
<seb128> up to mvo to use X-Ubuntu-RootRequired=yes for his .desktop
<ogra_> no, but if all gksudo stuff gets supressed, update-notifier should too
<seb128> all desktop files using X-Ubuntu-RootRequired=yes are masked
<ogra_> hmm, ut its more then a .desktop file in this case
<seb128> that's up to the package to use it
<mvo> seb128: could you please ask him to send me a quick overview what method he uses to figure if the user is a sudoer?
* ogra guesses its only a panel patch that respects the X-Ubuntu-RootRequired=yes
<ogra> which will be difficult for trayicons....
<seb128> mvo: atm it looks if you are on the "adm" group
<seb128> ups
<seb128> admin
<mvo> seb128: good enough for ubuntu I suspect
<seb128> yeah, good enough while we sort the "sudo -l" stuff
<seb128> I've to restart to be sure the new orbit package doesn't screw anything, brb
<pitti> cu later
<mayco> I've downloaded and tried the colony 3 live cd on my dell inspiron 6000 laptop, but when it gets into X, i get a blank screen. Whan can I do to help make the dell inspiron 6000 work out of the box?
<seb128> siretart: around?
<seb128> elmo: ping?
<Lathiat> daniels: sooo...
<Lathiat> daniels: libgl1-mesa-dev now?
<daniels> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of libxf1bpp.so not recognized
<daniels> debian/xserver-xorg-core/usr/lib/xorg/modules/libxf1bpp.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped
<daniels> what's not to recognise?
<daniels> Lathiat: libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev
<Lathiat> and libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev ?
<daniels> yeah
<Lathiat> well, at least its consistent now.
<daniels> gar, why is dpkg-shlibdeps so hideously broken
<infinity> Lathiat : They're mostly being fixed by me right now anyway.
<Mithrandir> is mozilla (suite) unstable on ppc?
<Mithrandir> daniels: it tries to parse the name, and it doesn't understand that you can have unversioned shared objects.
<daniels> Mithrandir: no, it does
<daniels>             if (m,^\s*NEEDED\s+((\S+)\.so\.(\S+))$,) {
<daniels>             } elsif (m,^\s*NEEDED\s+((\S+)-(\S+)\.so)$,) {
<daniels> utterly, utterly broken
<daniels> elmo: could you please promote everything built from mesa to main?
<infinity> elmo : It's reasonably urgent. :/  (Half the world is FTBFS until mesa-common-dev moves to main)
<infinity> elmo : "it" being daniels's request to move the mesa binaries to main.
<Mithrandir> go kino, ==3230==    definitely lost: 1893257 bytes in 38 blocks.
<seb128__> elmo: we also need to sync cairo, and the new pango 2.10 from experimental with it ... and libcairo2 (soname change) needs to go to main or the other half of the world will FTBFS too since it will break anything using GTK
<Lathiat> infinity: are your doing mass gl dep changes?
<infinity> Lathiat : yes, but I can't finish main until elmo fixes the archive.  I'll do as much universe as I can do, though (ie: the packages that don't depend on main being changed first)
<Lathiat> righto
<Lathiat> i need to get approved as a motu so i can do these sorts of things that are such a waste of time doing debdiffs for :)
<infinity> Takes longer to look at a debdiff and fix it than it does to just do it myself.
<Lathiat> exactly
<infinity> And in this case, I promised to fix what daniels and I broke (intentionally), so it's in my lap anyway. :)
<Lathiat> does give me more to base my case for becoming a motu tho :)
<seb128> infinity: are you going to upload a lot of GTK dependend stuff?
<Lathiat> whats wrong with archive?
<infinity> seb128 : GTK, QT, libforms, you name it.  GL/GLU support is toolkit agnostic, baby.
<infinity> seb128 : Wehy do you ask?  Do we need a mass rebuild for the cairo bump as well
<infinity> ?
<seb128> infinity: exactly, cairo soname change is planned for today
<seb128> as soon as elmo is around ...
<seb128> so better to rebuild stuff once
<infinity> seb128 : Heh.  Elmo is mine first, damnit.
<seb128> :)
<infinity> seb128 : I don't much care how many times things get rebuilt.  We have the CPU power. :)
<seb128> k
<infinity> seb128 : But in the name of elegance, I'll agree with you.  It also sucks if our uploads collide.
<seb128> right, so we just have to find elmo now ;)
<Lathiat> in general gtk/gl stuff doesnt cross *that* much
<infinity> seb128 : How about you just promise not to touch anything with a dep/build-dep on libgl/libglu/freeglut/libglut until after I've touched it?
<infinity> :)
<seb128> infinity: I've an another solution, what about you doing both transition so we don't conflict? :)
<infinity> (Add *mesae* to that list)
* seb128 runs
<infinity> Yeah, Icould do that too. :)
<seb128> do you have a rebuild-o-matic for transition?
<seb128> hum, I should have a look on what doko pointed the other day
<infinity> Oh, libcairo1 only has 236 rdepends.  That's not so bad...
<infinity> seb128 : You could just upload them all right now.
<infinity> Bump your libcairo build-deps, version your library build-deps to be tight enough, watch them all enter dep-wait, then wait for elmo to do the sync.
<seb128> making them Build-Depends on the new gtk so they will dep-wait?
<seb128> k
<infinity> When all 236 start building, it's like a lottery to see which ones FTBFS! :)
<infinity> (It's also a reasonably sane way to do it anyway, as tight build-deps mean stuff is actually rebuildable... Ish)
<seb128> yeah, expecting than you don't win at lottery :p
<infinity> seb128 : Advantage of you slamming all those uploads up as quickly as you can is that I can grab your ACCEPTED sources and do my changes, no harm done.
<Nafallo> jdub: btw, you got my planet-mail some month ago or so? :-)
<seb128> infinity: yeah, I'll start doing that just after lunch
<infinity> Lunch, schmunch.
<doko> seb128: send me a list of source packages, thenI can do that as well
<seb128> doko: is there a way to make a list of the sources packages from the binary packages?
<Lathiat> infinity: when you do poker3d, it needs libxml2-python2.4 -> python2.4-libxml2 build-dep change too
<infinity> Lathiat : I'm sure I would have found that out the hard way. :)
<Lathiat> heh just saying i was goign through my list of pending patches for someone to look at :)
<infinity> seb128 : Does it have to be pretty?
<infinity> for i in `apt-cache rdepends libcairo1 | grep '^ '`; do apt-cache showsrc $i; done |grep ^Package | awk '{print $2}' | sort -u
<infinity> Cause that's pretty ugly. :)
<doko> yes, something like that ...
<guillem> Tell me if this is not the right channel: I've seen poor performance at USB-sticks and DVD-RAM when using filesystems other than reiserfs (and perhaps vfat) mounted with the sync option.
<seb128> infinity: that should do the trick, thanks.
<guillem> That problem did not happen at my RH7.3 box (no DVD-RAM there, so only USB-stick checked)
<mvo> seb128: a pretty version: import apt, sys
<mvo> c = apt.Cache()
<mvo> p = c[sys.argv[1] ] 
<mvo> for rdep in p._pkg.RevDependsList:
<mvo>         print c[rdep.ParentPkg.Name] .sourcePackageName
<seb128> mvo: do you have a version doing main / universe as separate lists? :)
<seb128> doko: where did you say you have your transition stuff?
<\sh> c++?
<doko> concordia cxx/auto
<\sh> oh
<siretart> seb128: pong
<mvo> seb128: oregano (universe/gnome) Src: oregano
<mvo> libgpewidget1 (universe/libs) Src: libgpewidget
<mvo> libgcj6-awt (universe/libs) Src: gcc-4.0
<mvo> gcc-snapshot (universe/devel) Src: gcc-snapshot
<mvo> fdclock (universe/x11) Src: fdclock
<mvo> libcairo1-dev (libdevel) Src: libcairo
<mvo> seb128: is that waht you want?
<seb128> mvo: ups, I should try befire asking :)
<seb128> yeah
<mvo> seb128: no, I had to tweak it first :)
<seb128> oh, k
<doko> seb128: please leave out the gcc-4.0 and gcc-snapshot package ;)
<ogra> first32.c:(.text+0x1f3): undefined reference to `memcmp'
<mvo> doko: is that for gcj stuff (the dependency?)
<ogra> hmm, string.h is included.... has anybody an idea ?
<seb128> doko: k, I'm trying to figure how your tools work
<doko> AWT gtk peer bindings, yes
<mvo> ogra: what pkg?
<ogra> mknbi
<seb128> doko: aspell-update.sh and bupdate.sh are 2 different transitions, right ?
<doko> seb128: you did ask for the tool, not for the docs ;-P
<doko> yes, take bupdate.sh
<seb128> I just have to tweak them for the upload/changelog/build-depends changes I want and to provide the right list?
<seb128> k
<doko> modifiy the message in the script, and call it bupdate.s $(cat sources)
<doko> seb128: yes, insert the edit stuff at the place, where dch is called
<doko> seb128: ahh, and when you edit something, don't insert a buildN suffix, but always a ubuntuN suffix ...
<seb128> doko: depending on the transitionned version of GTK is the clean way to do that ... but I'm not sure I can automate that correctly
<seb128> maybe I should wait to get the new gtk on the buildd
<seb128> and they do a rebuild without changes
<mvo> ogra: that's a interessting package. assembler code all over the place
<doko> seb128: that sounds better, although it needs infinity, lamont and fabbione ... at least it's only _one_ package which needs to be installed on the buildd
<seb128> infinity: would that be good enough?
<ogra> mvo, i simply dont understand why it include string.h but still doesnt find memcmp
<seb128> mvo: what did you tweak to get the section?
<mvo> seb128: import apt, sys
<mvo> c = apt.Cache()
<mvo> p = c[sys.argv[1] ] 
<mvo> for rdep in p._pkg.RevDependsList:
<mvo>         pkg =  c[rdep.ParentPkg.Name] 
<mvo>         print "%s (%s) Src: %s" % (pkg.name, pkg.section, pkg.sourcePackageNam
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> and sorry to be lazy :)
<mvo> ogra: it's in linux-asm-string.h, it does not link against libc
<mvo> seb128: no problem :)
<mvo> seb128: sorry for not pasting it earlier
<ogra> seb128, you and the word lazy in one sencents simply doesnt fit ;)
<ogra> sentence
<seb128> ha ha
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> no evolution connector for ms exchange 5.5? 
<infinity> seb128 : The buildd chroots shouldn't have gtk installed at all anyway, the problem is that if an arch lags behind, it could do your rebuilt apps before it rebuilds GTK.
<infinity> seb128 : Not a problem for the DC arches, but it could break hppa/sparc (in the grand scheme of things, breaking hppa/sparc isn't a big deal, but it does upset lamont and fabio a bit)
<infinity> seb128 : For the DC arches, though, if you rebuild GTK, wait for it to be installed in the archive on all 4 arches, then do your other uploads, it should "just work".
<infinity> seb128 : And I wouldn't slap you too hard about doing it that way.
<infinity> seb128 : It means you can't upload anything until elmo shows up, though. :)
<seb128> yeah, k, I'll do that
<seb128> and that's only ~200 packages to rebuild
<seb128> fabbione/lamont will manage to catch up :)
<infinity> It's not a question of catching up, it's that they may end up with broken deps if they build out of order.
<seb128> they will have to binary NMU the stuff still depending on libcairo1
<infinity> Which means new source uploads to fix second-class arches, since we don't do binNMUs.
<seb128> or to wait for the next upload
<fabbione> or use versioned B-D like any sane develope
<fabbione> +r
<seb128> fabbione: want to do the 200 uploads ?
<fabbione> that would be about time..
<seb128> I'm already kind of really busy
<fabbione> seb128: do you want to take over kernel and X apps :)
<fabbione> so am i
<seb128> so if I can automate that instead of taking 2 days 
<mjg59> jdub: Hi
<fabbione> seb128: just tell me the order. i can stop the buildd and do it manually..
<doko> seb128, infinity: why not do the same game as we did for the C++ stuff?
<infinity> fabbione : Verioned build-deps were my first suggestion.  He's trying to weasel out of them. :)
<seb128> there other options is:
<seb128> I do the ~80 mains packages
<doko> infinity: b-d's are evil for such kind of things ;)
<seb128> and I let MOTU fix the universe craps :)
<mvo> doko: do you know if something changed in gcc 4.0 and it's buildin intrinsics (like __buildin_memcmp)?
<doko> mov: no 
<seb128> anyway I'm grabbing some food, brb
<infinity> doko : No, it's precisely one of the things they're meant for.  Build-depends are for build daemons, it's a happy accident that they sometimes work for by-hand builds and backports.
<doko> mvo: no, nothing changed AFAIK
<pitti> Hi
<infinity> doko : Build-depends are the only way we really have to enforce consistent builds.
<doko> infinity: yes for libs, no for apps
<doko> at least that's the way unstable is currently handled ...
<infinity> fabbione : You may be better off just telling your buildd not to build anything until you've done GTK and uploaded it.
<doko> seb128: do you change the b-d to libcairo2-dev?
<infinity> doko : Yeah, that's because Debian developers whine loudly, and with 1000 voices.  Ubuntu build-deps do seem to be tighter, on average.
* Mithrandir grinds teeth
<fabbione> infinity: ok i did stop the buildd..
<fabbione> infinity: so again.. i need to build cairo and than gtk?
<fabbione> and then i can unleash the buildd again?
<infinity> fabbione : yeah, once elmo pops his head in and does the cairo sync.
<fabbione> ok
<infinity> fabbione : GTK will build-dep on the new cairo, so that's not an issue.  Just looks like the apps won't have versioned GTK build-deps, cause seb has other things to do (TBH, I don't blame him)
<infinity> fabbione : Oh, while you're waiting, can you make sure that the latest mesa is built on sparc?... That'll effect my uploads (again, once elmo's around and shuffles the archive)
<fabbione> infinity: it's still building..
<fabbione> so if it doesn't FTBFS we are teh rock
<infinity> It won't.
<Mitario> hi everyone
<Mithrandir> iconview/qiconview.cpp:378: warning: class QIconViewToolTip has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
<Mithrandir> iconview/qiconview.cpp: In member function virtual void QIconView::doAutoScroll():
<Mithrandir> iconview/qiconview.cpp:3310: error: region was not declared in this scope
<Mitario> is there some bazaar bugreport/development channel?
<Mithrandir> oh, bloody silly qt.
<seb128> doko: gtk will build-depends on libcairo2-dev
<seb128> doko: apps only build-depends on libgtk2.0-dev, not on cairo
<seb128> they get the Depends while building with gtk
<\sh> Mithrandir: qt4? ,-)
<Mithrandir> \sh: qt3 from breezy.
<\sh> Mithrandir: which arc? qt3 was building fine the last time I tried ;)
* paolo- happily read libcairo2 :-)
<infinity> seb128 : That sort of thing could be fixed once and for all with a sane useage of libtool that didn't leak transient library deps...
<Mithrandir> \sh: the last two versions haven't built properly.
<infinity> If QT builds at all, I consider that improper.
<\sh> Mithrandir: are the sources in the archives? so I can have a look this evenin
<\sh> g
<Mithrandir> \sh: feel free
<\sh> Mithrandir: 3:3.3.4-4ubuntu3 ?
<Mithrandir> \sh: yes.
<\sh> Mithrandir: can't be serious ,-)
<Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ~ > apt-cache showsrc qt-x11-free | grep ^Version ; apt-cache show libqt3-mt-dev | grep ^Version
<Mithrandir> Version: 3:3.3.4-4ubuntu3
<Mithrandir> Version: 3:3.3.4-4ubuntu2
<mvo> ogra_*: can you actually test this mknbi stuff? I made it build but would feel better if it was tested
<ogra_ltsp> mvo, i could try, but i have not even a machine with floppy around... mknbi creates netboot floppies
<Lathiat> can use qemu
<Lathiat> or vmware
<mvo> doko: it looks like -Os does not/no longer include __buildin_* intrinsics? 
<mvo> ogra__: I killed my last floppy a while ago ...
<fabbione> infinity: ok.. i have MESA up for sparc.. buildd is in idle
<mvo> ogra__: you need this stuff for edubuntu, right?
<infinity> fabbione : Fantabulous.  Do freeglut once the new mesa is in, and you're doing even better. :)
<fabbione> infinity: it's already in mesa..
<fabbione> i have a local cache for pkgs in main :)
<fabbione> so i can save 2/3 hours roundrobin between archive -> ports -> home
<doko> doko: since when?
<ogra> mvo, where is the source to test ? 
<fabbione> <doko> doko: since when? <- lovely to talk alone, isn't it?
<fabbione> infinity: freeglut building
<doko> fabbione: ok, need a break ...
<doko> mvo: since when?
<mvo> orga: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/mknbi
<ogra> thanks
<mvo> doko: don't know, it seems to be (one) cause for the FTBFS of mknbi, I will do a quick test-case to check it
<pvanhoof> will the mono packages in breezy get fixed?
<pvanhoof> it's missing all the assemblies
<ogra> mvo, looks bad....
<ogra> mvo, (not caused by your fix though)
<ogra> seems to have utf8 probs....
<mvo> ogra: what's happening?
<ogra> just upgrading the machine, probably perl is outdated
<retrix> am i correct in assuming breezy will use the network-admin tool as hoary did?
<ogra> looks like :/
<ogra> mvo, ogra@workie:~$ mknbi-linux
<ogra> Warning: Perl 5.8 may have a bug that affects handing of strings in Unicode
<ogra> locales that may cause misbehaviour with binary files.  To work around this
<ogra> problem, set $LANG to not have a suffix of .UTF-8 before running this program.
<ogra> mkelf-linux is preferred in future instead of mknbi-linux
<ogra> Usage: /usr/bin/mknbi-linux kernelimage [ramdisk] 
<ogra> mvo, even after an upgrade....
<mvo> doko: seems to be a pretty special case the problem with mknbi
<mvo> ogra: just unsetting LANG before running it does not help?
<ogra> works...
<hunger> What is left of the network magic goal, now that network manager seems to be out of scope?
* mvo is going for lunch now
<mjg59> Anyone have any opinions on 13743?
<mjg59> ogra: Ping?
<carstenh> pitti: ping
<pitti> hi carstenh 
<Mithrandir> mjg59: try loading them in the other order, or can that fail too?
<mjg59> Mithrandir: That could fail too
<mjg59> The problem is that if one module doesn't load, we don't fall back to the second
<Mithrandir> mjg59: I guess "beat the manufacturer with a baseball bat" is not an option?
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Not now the hardware exists, no
<Mithrandir> mjg59: I guess just falling back as you suggest is our only real option, then
<infinity> Erm, wait.  Which manufacturer has 8139[abc]  PCI ids on an 8139c+ card?  (or vice versa)
<infinity> That's just wrong.
<infinity> (But yes, if such overlaps do exist, there's not much we can do but try both and pray)
<Mithrandir> 0000:00:05.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10)
<Mithrandir> you mean that one?
<mjg59> Yeah
<mjg59> That PCI ID could be either driver
<fabbione> infinity: ok.. freeglut done.. what's next?
<fabbione> infinity: ubuntu7 is only a rebuild.. right?
<infinity> fabbione : yeah, no worries rthere.
<fabbione> infinity: so ia64 did use the old mesa...
<fabbione> or is it something else i need to check?
<infinity> fabbione : Dirty chroot.  1 out of my 12 chroots apparently still had the dpkg segv breakage.  Cleaned up now.
<fabbione> ahh ok
<mako> mdz: you're right
* infinity wonders who to blame xscreensaver's FTBFS on..
<Treenaks> infinity: ogra?
<infinity> That would be fun.
<infinity> Alternately, I could blame it on daniels.  Hrmph.
<ogra> infinity, my last build of xscreensaver was on Jun 02, that one worked... no idea why there is no debian/tmp/etc/X11/app-defaults/XScreenSaver
<ogra> only pitti any you touched it inbetween
<infinity> I know why there isn't.  Looking into it.
<ogra> mjg59, pong... sorry, had nop time for gnome-power yet
<ogra> (guessing thats the reason for the ping)
<mjg59> ogra: Yup
<mjg59> ogra: If it's going into Breezy, we need to fix it up soon
<ogra> i know... i'll try to get it ready before sunday
<paolo-> seb128: what word does describe the current status of libcairo? :-)
<seb128> paolo-: waiting for elmo
<ogra> mjg59, sorry, i got struck by some unexpected stuff i have to fix first
<paolo-> OK, cool.  In the meanwhile we got it working in gtk, it is really nice :-) http://haskell.org/gtk2hs/gallery/cairo/Screenshot_drawing_gdk http://haskell.org/gtk2hs/gallery/cairo/Screenshot_drawing_cairo
<seb128> rocl
<seb128> rock
<seb128> paolo-: is that using cairo directly, or gdk with cairo ?
<paolo-> seb128: it's using cairo functions on the cairo context got from gdk_cairo_create()
<seb128> paolo-: there is difference on the same program between gdk 2.6 and 2.8?
<seb128> ie: it doesn't get better because gtk uses cairo?
<mjg59> ogra: Ok, cool
<mjg59> ogra: Thanks!
<paolo-> seb128: this snippet is built agains 2.8, in Gtk+2.6 you'd need to bind that GtkCairo widget or such.
<seb128> paolo-: yeah, but the non-smooth-lines is gtk 2.6 or 2.8 ?
<paolo-> 2.8
<seb128> :(
<paolo-> Hmm, let me see..
<seb128> I thought than GTK was using cairo for such stuff
<seb128> so you win the smooth for free
<seb128> ie: no need to recode stuff
<paolo-> Let me check with the guy fond on Gtk :-)
<seb128> k
<paolo-> OK, it's 2.8 using Gdk :-(
<seb128> does the guy know why it's not smooth?
<seb128> since gdk uses cairo
<paolo-> The GDK interface still use direct Xlib things.
<paolo-> He say that thisis justified on the basis on compatibility, not upsetting things.  And if people want the smooth lines & co then they can use the cairo interface which is more powerful and has more features than the gdk one, anyway.
<paolo-> "It's just that gtk+ 2.8 is using cairo now in places where it previously used the gdk drawing primitives, but if you use gdk you get gdk - besides, the gdk is quicker since it's lower level and more direcly maps to xlib calls"
<seb128> paolo-: thanks
<paolo-> You're welcome!
<carstenh> JaneW: ping. pitti told me that you are very creative when choosing kernel-names. do you have any suggestion for our firewall tool?
<JaneW> carstenh: hi...
<JaneW> carstenh: do you have a theme in mind?
<carstenh> hi
<JaneW> carstenh: and do you need a one off name or a series?
<carstenh> i have no idea :/
<carstenh> should sound good and easy rememberalbe
<paolo-> seb128: I'll notice libcairo2 from breezy-changes, right?  (so I'll not beg you anymore)
<carstenh> +be
<JaneW> carstenh: well I like the name Gryphon (mythical beast with body of a lion and head of an eagle, protector of the holy grail)
<seb128> paolo-: yep, but it'll probably be uploaded today 
<carstenh> catalyst would sound good, but cisco uses it for its switches
<pitti> JaneW: we need a name for the firewall package, so no series :-)
<ogra> carstenh, portmaster... but thats (tm) too
<pitti> ubuwall - too ugly
<carstenh> ogra: originally i used netfilter in my proposal :/
<pitti> carstenh: that's the name of the kernel side
<carstenh> pitti: because of that people writing this might not like me to use this name :)
<ogra> doorkeeper  ?
<pitti> gryphon -- see, these names are the reason why I suggested to ask  Jane :-)
<carstenh> JaneW: gryphon really sounds good, but a linux cd palyer uses it too
<chmj> pitti: eheh, that should be a winner 
<JaneW> It's also spelt griffin (my sons name!) but the spelling Gryphon is more mythical
<JaneW> carstenh: ok Norbert? Fire breathing baby dragon in Harry Potter...
<pitti> reminds me of Gryffindor :-)
<JaneW> pitti: that too
<tseng> norbert is a DD
<carstenh> :)
<pitti> packetcop
<pitti> no, too ugly
<Mithrandir> elmo: please add linux-wlan-ng for amd64 as well in PaS
<\sh> JaneW: read the new harry potter...
<pitti> \sh: I have the book, but I didn't find time to read it so far :-)
<pitti> my gf has, though
<ogra> mvo, mknbi seems to produce a kernel image, i cant test its netboot capabilitys.... lets upload it and see if we get bugreports... a building package is still better then a non building package
<JaneW> \sh: no I only read the first - found them a bit 'young' but the movies have been good.... I akm sure I'll read them to the kids though
<\sh> pitti: I read it in a couple of hours...
<\sh> JaneW: the last two books are not for children (IMHO)
<\sh> JaneW: too much SM inside
<carstenh> siegfried killed a dragon, how was its name?
<\sh> kunigunde?
<\sh> oh no..that was the wifes name *lol*
<JaneW> Fafnir
<JaneW> A Norse dragon. Depending on which version of the legend you read, Fafnir began life either as a dwarf, a giant or the son of a magician! Either way, he was ultimately transformed into a dragon and slain by Siegfried.
<JaneW> doesn't really roll off the toungue though...
<JaneW> sounds like a stiffled sneeze!
<\sh> JaneW: fan of Nibelungen?
* carstenh searches the book there and back again...
<\sh> reading "The Hobbit" and "LotR" at least twice a year, is pure fun :)
<carstenh> smaug does not really sound that good
<\sh> and every second year Kings "The Stand" (original edition with those 7592883 pages more)
<JaneW> Hestia - Greek goddess of fire, the hearth and home.
<JaneW> Pyrrha - "Fire"; daughter of Pandora and Epimetheus, and the Hellenic equivalent of Noah's wife.
<JaneW> Vesta - Roman goddess of fire, the hearth and home.
<JaneW> Eisa - "Embers"; Norse goddess of fire, the hearth and home, and daughter of the god Loki.
<JaneW> Gerda - Norse goddess of beauty, magic, fire, the sun and day, time.
<carstenh> JaneW: hestia sounds imho good
<ubuntuguy> Please improve ndiswrapper support for Breezy release. Thank you!
<Treenaks> uh
<pitti> wow
<Treenaks> please file a bug next time, kthxbye
<\sh> rotfl
<\sh> what was that
<pitti> fix my bugs, kthxbye
<elmo> seb128: what do you mean by pango 2.10?\
<elmo> I only see a pango1.0 package in experimental
<pitti> seb128: do you know whether any program directly wants to access /tmp/.esd/socket?
<carstenh> since it is written in python pyrrha might be better ;)
<elmo> seb128: and I assume you mean 'libcairo' from unstable?
<carstenh> thanks a lot for all the suggestions
<seb128> elmo: pango1.0 1.10.0
<\sh> I just found something about "Jane"...and she is really a "Jane"
<\sh> "Jane is an artificial sentience thought to exist within the ansible network by which spaceships and planets communicate in realtime across galactic distances."
<seb128> elmo: libcairo 0.9.2
<pitti> carstenh: plasma - starts with p and is fire :-)
<seb128> elmo: and I'm going to upload gtk 2.8.0 ... I'll ping you again about it when incoming lists it
<pitti> yay, new gtk
<seb128> pitti: not that I know of
<fabbione> crack
<JaneW> \sh: :)
<JaneW> \sh: what about JANE weekly
<fabbione> seb128: cairo didn't propagate yet.. did it?
<seb128> fabbione: when this GTK is built and available for the buildd, all the rdepends of libcairo1 are going to be rebuild
<\sh> JaneW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_%28Ender%27s_Game%29
<seb128> fabbione: no, it has not been synced yet, elmo just ponged
<fabbione> seb128: i did stop the buildd, waiting for cairo and later for gtk
<fabbione> ah ok
<seb128> fabbione: what you want to do is stop building with gtk << 2.8 from now
<fabbione> i already stopped..
<seb128> ok
<JaneW> \sh: I mean Jane's Defense weekly
<carstenh> pitti: plasma.sf.net is upstream-dead since three years
<fabbione> seb128: remember i still have a bunch of apps that can't be built due to that binutils problem..
<seb128> brb, I just reboot this box with gtk 2.8.0 before uploading to be sure
<pitti> carstenh: oh, it already exists? darn
<\sh> JaneW: u mean "What's the status of <name your fav. breezyGoal>" ? this defense? ,-)
<JaneW> lol
<bur[n] er> i dunno if you guys know this, but hibernate actually works in breezy ;)
<pitti> bur[n] er: not for me :-(
<\sh> pitti: wanna have this toshiba baby? ,-)
<carstenh> apollon is also known to put of harm (this is what a firewall should do) and is somehow related to python since he killed it :)
<pitti> \sh: well, my iBook works reasonably, and suspend to ram works fine :-)
<\sh> pitti: yesterday evening I tried to suspend2ram my nc6000..this morning I woke up..I had to remove the battery as well to let it run again..
<seb128> elmo: thanks
<\sh> the power led was on..and the laptop was hot
<infinity> seb128 : Alright, where are you at in preparing for your transition, and what do we need to coordinate to not step on each others' toes?
<seb128> infinity: cairo/pango have been synced. I'm uploading gtk 2.8.0 which use them to Debian atm and will ask elmo to sync it from incoming when it's here
<bur[n] er> pitti: how do you suspend to ram?  there's no gui way correct?
<seb128> infinity: then I'll make sure with you / fabbione / lamont than the buildd are ok before using doko's script to a mass rebuild
* bur[n] er would like to test :)
<jelkner> does anyone here have a minute to help out with a umask question?
<pitti> bur[n] er: I just close the lid or press the power button
<pitti> jelkner: just ask
<infinity> seb128 : Okay, tell me before you start, so I can stop uploading potentially-clashing packages.  Until you're ready, I'll assume the archive is mine. :)
<jelkner> i have an ubuntu web server set up at our school, and i can't get the umask set right
<infinity> seb128 : Deal?
<pitti> jelkner: however, it sounds as if #ubuntu would be more appropriate
<seb128> infinity: fine with me, let's do that :)
<pitti> jelkner: you mean you can't set it or you don't know which one to set?
<jelkner> i put "umask 002" in both the user's .bashrc and .bash_profile
<jelkner> but when she ftp's a file it still has 600 permissions
<jelkner> since apache is running as www-data
<jelkner> i made her group www-data
<jelkner> so that pages she uploads can be read by the server
<pitti> jelkner: -> #ubuntu
<jelkner> ok, but i find that channel frequently *not* helpful
<jelkner> but i'll try again
* infinity blinks as he sees something pulling in libstdc++5 in his breezy chroot.
<JaneW> carstenh: so are you happy with that name or should I keep looking?
<infinity> doko : Do you happen to know why htmldoc is built with g++-3.3?
<doko> infinity: yes, circular build dependencies between fltk1.1 and htmldoc
<infinity> doko : So it can be transitioned now, I assume?
<doko> maybe I forgot to rebuild htmldoc?
<doko> infinity: yes, I think so, if fltk1.1 is built on all archs
<carstenh> JaneW: apollon is already taken by a kde file sharing tool, so feel free to suggest another names :) thanks a lot for your help
<JaneW> carstenh: cos my last 2 atempts are Typhon and Quetzalcoatl
<infinity> doko : You uploaded a "rebuild for transition" change, but didn't actually remove the g++-3.3 build-dep or the bit in debian/rules.
<doko> oops, I'll fix it
<infinity> doko : Thanks.  I noticed it cause I'm rebuilding fltk1.1 right now (not for C++).
<infinity> doko : Actually, if it build-deps on libfltk1.1-dev, hold off until I've uploaded the new fltk.  It'll just be broken anyway until I do.
<doko> infinity: ok
<carstenh> the latter is too long and typhoon is some commerial firewall tool (or something similar)
<carstenh> JaneW: i forgot to hilight you :)
<mjg59> Is Claire around at the moment?
<mvo> seb128: is there something wrong with gdm? I seem to be unable to log into a Xnet gdm
<JaneW> crsten: sigh, this is HARD :P
<carstenh> :)
<JaneW> carstenh: I mean ^
<\sh> grmpf...
<\sh> fixing qt
<JaneW> carstenh: trebuchet ?
<ogra> JaneW, thats a microsoft font
<JaneW> argh!
<ogra> (a very popular one)
<JaneW> ok we'll need to make up a word
<infinity> \sh : Making it build again?  While you're at it, it needs a mesa transition.
<ogra> just shuffle some letters together
<\sh> carstenh: a name for what?
<\sh> I think "Stephan" is a good name for a boy ,-) or "Stephen" for international purposes
<infinity> \sh : When you have it building, can you ping me?
<JaneW> Wallace
<\sh> infinity: ok...this comes next
<\sh> infinity: sure
<JaneW> carstenh: Mr Plod? (Policeman from Noddy)
<infinity> \sh : Alternately, I can transition it right now, watch it FTBFS, and you can work from my sources. :)
<\sh> infinity: what build deps for mesa trans.?
<carstenh> \sh: for the firewall
<\sh> infinity: or let me fix the source errors first...I just created a patch
<carstenh> JaneW: i never heard something about noddy :/
<mvo> carstenh: what about "captain carrot" (famous discworld policeman)
<ogra> mvo, did you get my last msg ? i'd upload it if you could give me a minimally more descriptive changelog entry
<carstenh> hmm, it is very long
<ogra> but cool
<\sh> carstenh: for ubuntu? what about a short name like PUFW
<\sh> PersonalUbuntuFireWall
<ogra> i like captain carrot
<\sh> In german it sounds like puff daddy ,-)
<mvo> carstenh: jusr "carrot"?  or "vimes" (after commander vimes, another very famous discworld policeman)
<carstenh> \sh: yes, for ubuntu
<fabbione> seb128: libcairo -> gtk -> pango, right?
<mvo> \sh: pufw gives me the wrong mental images ;)
<ogra> heh, me too
<mvo> ogra: no, haven't got it, I'll /msg you
<carstenh> hmm, this are a lot of suggestions :)
<\sh> mvo: accidently...
<seb128> fabbione: no
<seb128> fabbione: libcairo, pango, gtk
<seb128> mvo: what about gdm?
<mvo> carstenh: it's always the hardest bit of developing ;)
<\sh> mvo: but those people are using as well human wearable firewalls ,-)
<seb128> mvo: what does it say?
<fabbione> seb128: perfect.. thanks
<mvo> seb128: nothing, just "wrong password" when I try to login into a nested gnome esssion
<mvo> \sh: heh
<seb128> mvo: are you sure your keyboard config is ok, not using qwerty or something?
<\sh> ah...colony 3 doesn't install in a VMWare VMachine
<seb128> elmo: please sync gtk+2.0 2.8.0-1 from incoming
<\sh> forgot to tell ya...it complains after stage 1 reboot that there is no "tty" accessable...and stops inside the busybox
<mvo> seb128: right, I have a "qwerty" in the nested window. how can I get rid of it :) ?
<seb128> mvo: no clue, it works for me .. your main gdm as an another layout?
<\sh> infinity: qiconview ftbfs fixed
<\sh> infinity: I will let it compile further to see other issues...send me the mesa stuff for debian/control and I'll adjust them as well
<\sh> infinity: btw...it was an easy fix ,-) QRegion region; was missing...
<JaneW> carstenh: Noddy.com , http://www.altavista.com/image/results?itag=ody&q=mr+plod&kgs=1&kls=0 <- Mr Plod
<mvo> seb128: my main gdm has "qwertz"
<seb128> mvo: and you use gdmflexiserver --xnest?
<mvo> seb128: yes
<seb128> do you have the issue with "gdmflexiserver" ?
<carstenh> JaneW: looks funny :)
<infinity> \sh : Let me grab the source and give you a patch.
<JaneW> carstenh: is
<\sh> infinity: then it's easier I'll send u the dpatch an 00list and u adjust the control...:)
<JaneW> carstenh: ok I have an ethnic african word that might work, and go with ubuntu...
<desrt> daniels; dpkg: erreur de traitement de /var/cache/apt/archives/libgl1-xorg-dri_6.8.2-50_i386.deb (--unpack): tentative de remplacement de /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/gamma_dri.so, qui appartient aussi au paquet xlibmesa-dri
<JaneW> carstenh: it's kraal....Kraal  is an Afrikaans word for either an enclosure for horses, cattle and the like, or a native village surrounded by a palisade, mud wall, or other fencing, roughly circular in form. The word is derived possibly from a native African word, but probably from the Spanish corral, or Portuguese ciirral. The term has been more broadly used to describe the way of life associated with the kraal that is found among 
<JaneW> some African, especially South African, peoples. Among certain peoples of KwaZulu Natal, for example, the kraal consists of a collection of huts.
<JaneW> Folds for animals and enclosures made specially for defensive purposes are also called kraals. 
<\sh> infinity: mail sent
<mvo> seb128: if I run just gdmflexiserver i get a window "choose server" 
<mvo> seb128: and then I get a new login and keys are fine
<mvo> strage
<mvo> strange even
<seb128> mvo: the "Choose server" is a known issue
<seb128> mvo: I would say that's an xnest issue, not a gdm one
<carstenh> JaneW: sounds really good, thanks :)
<mvo> seb128: ok, fair enough
<elmo> seb128: done
<mvo> ping ogra
<seb128> elmo: thanks!
<JaneW> carstenh: :), must go I will be back later for meetings
<JaneW> bye all
<infinity> \sh : Cheers, uploaded.
<\sh> infinity: ur welcome .)
<carstenh> bye JaneW 
<infinity> doko : fltk1.1 is looking good, if you upload htmldoc for the next cron.daily, it should be fine.
<chmj> carstenh: u still open for name suggestions ? 
<bddebian> Hello
<seb128> chmj: you work on bluetooth, right?
<seb128> hi bddebian
<chmj> seb128: yes 
<bddebian> Hi seb128
<seb128> chmj: gnome-bluetooth update planned before 5.10?
<doko> infinity: ok
<chmj> seb128: only to fix that Nautilus "send via bluetooth" option 
<seb128> chmj: nautilus-sendto is main and gnome-bluetooth universe, which is an issue
<seb128> chmj: planned to move it to main?
<chmj> seb128: its too late now, don't think mdz will allow that 
<chmj> seb128: SoC stuff is also deffered 
<seb128> k
<lamont-away> seb128: so there's a libcairo sync, then a new gtk+2.0, and then we can let the fur fly?
<seb128> lamont-away: libcairo, pango1.0, gtk+2.0
<seb128> lamont-away: everything using gtk has to be built using libgtk2.0-0 2.8.0-1 from now
<seb128> that's the version using libcairo2
<chmj> carstenh: ping 
<infinity> lamont-away : And while there's fur flying, make sure you have the new mesa and new freeglut (and some clean chroots) before doing anything else.
<carstenh> chmj: sure :)
<infinity> lamont-away : It's a double fur day.
<lamont-away> infinity: well, a kernel is building now, so that helps some...
<lamont-away> OTOH, it's about done.
<pef> hi
<seb128> infinity: pango1.0 is dep-waiting on libcairo right?
<seb128> ie: it'll retry by itself?
<chmj> carstenh: "sigmoid" - used mostly in AI, its a mathematical function that produces a S shaped curve, not relevant to firewalling though
<carstenh> chmj: sounds good too, thanks :)
<chmj> carstenh: :) 
<lamont-away> infinity: mesa/freeglut means building xorg? or something else?
<infinity> lamont-away : No, just mesa and freeglut...
<lamont-away> infinity: rather, specifically what source package do I need to build and install
<infinity> lamont-away : Unless you're a few xorg releases behind, then that might be nice to build too.
<lamont-away> I have -43
<trygvebw> Any major breakages in Breezy atm?
<infinity> lamont-away : Ouch.  I'd build -50 if I were you, then do mesa and freeglut.
<lamont-away> libs/mesa_6.3.1.1-0ubuntu1: Needs-Build [optional:out-of-date] 
<lamont-away> x11/xorg_6.8.2-50: Needs-Build [optional:out-of-date] 
<lamont-away> graphics/freeglut_2.2.0-8ubuntu5: Installed [optional:] 
<infinity> lamont-away : being 7 releases behind on X is very m68kish of you.
<infinity> lamont-away : Are you suffering toolchain issues, or just lack of horsies?
<doko> :-)
<lamont-away> was suffering toolchain issues
<lamont-away> and it's more of a bandwidth issue than a CPU issue - esp when xorg, oo.o*, and the kernel all churn together
<lamont-away> and I see that I need a newer freeglut
<seb128> k, pango has built .... gtk to go :)
<infinity> seb128 : gtk will get given-back when I see pango in the archive.
<lamont-away> seb128: when I screw up and build some gtk apps with the wrong stuff, what's the symptom?
<seb128> thanks
<lamont-away> seb128: that is, how can I tell that it's a bad build and shouldn't be uploaded?
<infinity> (ie: cron.daily is still running)
<seb128> lamont-away: depends on libcairo1 which is not available since that's libcairo2 now
<lamont-away> so anything that Depends: libcairo1 is evil.  check
<seb128> correct
<infinity> Oo, that was a quick cron.daily.
<infinity> Okay, how sad is it that I've been conditioned to belive that 7 minutes is "quick"?
<infinity> And GTK starts just as QT finishes.  Serendipity.
<lamont-away> infinity: anything really borkish on the mesa/freeglut front, or do they just FTBFS?
<infinity> lamont-away : Nothing will FTBFS, cause nothing really should, you just end up with suboptimal dependencies that germinate doens't like.
<infinity> lamont-away : Since germinate probably doesn't look at or care about SCC arches anyway, it may not really matter. :)
<infinity> lamont-away : Basically, this is the whole xlibmesa/libgl*-xorg -> libgl*-mesa transition, once and for all.
<lamont-away> actually, it'll mean that packages wind up Depending on universe packages, if germinate and elmo rip them that direction...
<infinity> lamont-away : And all should go well if mesa is built before anything else, and your chroots aren't dirty with libgl* crap (which may have happened due to segfaulting dpkg..)
<infinity> lamont-away : Nah, cause all libgl* deps are "|" deps.
<infinity> lamont-away : So, for releas arches, that confuses germinate, for you, it's a non-issue, probbaly.
<infinity> lamont-away : There's no functional difference between "xlibmesa-gl | libgl1" and "libgl1-mesa | libgl1", for instance.
<infinity> If germinate looks at SCC arches, we have big problems, so I assume it doesn't.
<lamont-away> it doesn't
<lamont-away> other than pulling specific packages in for them (that are seeded)
<infinity> <nod>... Like kernel udebs, etc.
<seb128> Lathiat: have you restarted/upgraded dbus or something?
<Lathiat> seb128: nope
<seb128> and could you send upstream bug upstream? :)
<seb128> thanks anyway
<Lathiat> seb128: this happens all the time, rebooted clean a few time
<Lathiat> s
<Lathiat> ok
<Lathiat> i prefer yoru judgement over if it should go upstream than mine
* lamont-away decides that his steps are: (1) xorg -50 while mirror freshens, (2) mesa, freeglut, libcairo, pango, gtk+2.0, (3) fur flys, with refusal to upload anything that Depends: libcairo1 - that sound right?
<lamont-away> seb128: infinity: that sound right?
<seb128> lamont-away: seems correct to me
<lamont-away> mdz: infinity: I'll get a new livecd-rootfs in once I get to the office, and let mdz know it's there so he can have livecd love again.
<seb128> Lathiat: do you know how to build a package? 
<infinity> lamont-away : That should do well.
<infinity> lamont-away : Oh, and if you're just dying for more massive shit to build, QT is happy again too.
<Lathiat> seb128: ya
<daniels> desrt: known issue, install libgl1-mesa{,-dri}
<infinity> lamont-away : It can go somewhere after GTK. :)
<seb128> Lathiat: gnome-vfs2 has a ./test-volumes that list all the drives/volumes ... that could be useful
<lamont-away> (fur flies --> $no_build_regex = ".";)
<lamont-away> or rather, fur flies when I remove it.
<desrt> daniels; also fixed by uninstalling the old package
<desrt> daniels; everything is peachy now :)
<daniels> desrt: either way.  testing for libgl1-mesa* would be nice in any case.
<desrt> is this the new one that includes support for the R350?
<desrt> or am i totally off the mark about what does what in X?
<daniels> r3xx dri needs to come from a combination of drm, dri and ddx
<daniels> right now we only have the dri part via mesa
<daniels> drm is up to fabio or benc, ddx I'm doing with my next xorg update
<desrt> awesome
<daniels> but we just switched over where we build libGL and the DRI modules
<desrt> any word on when the keyboard stuff is getting fixed?
<daniels> so if you have working DRI and can test libgl1-mesa* PLEASE DO
<daniels> what keyboard stuff?
<desrt> i get a gnome keyboard properties dialog on startup.. that thing where it tells me that it can't set stuff
<tseng> xkb has been fixed for ages
<desrt> !!
<tseng> if you would read the mailing list
<tseng> there was a very nice post by mr. stone
<desrt> readinging mailing lists is not a viable option :)
<Surak> tseng: there are still weird stuff happening with xkb
<desrt> ok.  it's obviously a problem here.  i'll look into it :)
<tseng> using breezy && not reading mailing lists == you lose
<desrt> what ML should i subscribe to, then?
<Surak> when you remove every keyboard layouts...
<tseng> -devel
<desrt> Surak; that's a gnome bug... it's been that way forever
<Surak> desrt: it was already posted upstream - but someone at gnome.org said that works for him/her
<desrt> wow.  lists contain useful information
<desrt> daniels; from the standpoint of someone who occasionally helps people in #ubuntu -- please keep glxinfo in -desktop
<Surak> :-)
<lamont-away> pitti: it's a compiler bug, I'm betting... I guess I should track it down more and get a bug filed upstream gcc
<lamont-away> or at least pester doko to do so. :-)
<daniels> desrt: sudo apt-get install mesa-utils
* lamont-away really --> office.
<pitti> lamont-away: ok, if it's really a compiler issue, then we can leave the workaround
<desrt> eh.  i suppose that's not too much to ask people to do
<daniels> desrt: it's also depended on by xbase-utils when I upload -51
<doko> pitti: which one?
<pitti> doko: #13486
<desrt> daniels; ah.  that's perfect.
* desrt tries restarting X
<desrt> hmm.  still not ctrl+alt+F1 love
<doko> pitti: nice. can you identify the function?
<desrt> but gnome is no longer complaining :)
<pitti> doko: no, sorry, stack trace is completely unusable
<pitti> doko: and as soon as you don't compile with -O2 to make it usable, it doesn't crash
<pitti> doko: the classic heisenbug
<daniels> pitti: s/^\(.*\)$/printf("we're at %s:%s\n", __FILE__, __LINE__); &/;
<pitti> daniels: nice idea
<desrt> daniels; if recompiling without -O2 fixes it then that's almost definitely gonna fix it :P
<doko> pitti: make two sets of object files, -O2/-O1, then combine them, that should let you identify the file in log n steps
<Surak> Does somebody know about changes in gdialog?
<Surak> It no longer works for me - since breezy of august 16 or 15.
<pitti> daniels: but that certainly needs to be refined, it totally breaks source files that way
<daniels> pitti: a little, yeah
<pitti> daniels: one really has to do it manually, unless you have implemented a C parser that can put the commands between every command, not every line...
<daniels> pitti: hack gcc's parser to preprend that to every source line
<pitti> no way
<infinity> seb128 : There, GTK uploaded on all arches, should be installed everywhere on the next cron.daily.  Let the uploads fly.
<pitti> daniels: that thing even works again when building with -O2 -g. grumpf
<pitti> well, since this is policy anyway, we could just leave it like that :-)
<daniels> heh
<doko> hmm, don't leave dormant bugs ...
<seb128> infinity: k. Can you apt-get update the concordia i386 when it's available, so I can start using doko's script on it
<pitti> doko: just kidding
<daniels> seb128: er, I don't think infinity has the root.
<seb128> oh, will ask elmo then :)
<infinity> daniels : Shh, I'll lose all my street cred.
<infinity> seb128 : He's right, only elmo can muck around in the porting chroots.
<infinity> seb128 : I assume elmo's newly-hired protege will gain said powers in time as well.
<seb128> k
<Keybuk> he's got to be first trained in the powers of sarcasm, wit and irony
<Keybuk> not to mention inducted into the holy church of the cyclone of hate
<mvo> pitti: thanks for fixing #2132!
<mdz> morning
<mvo> morning mdz!
<Surak> hallo
<infinity> seb128 : gnome-pilot is FTBFS.
<seb128> hi mdz
<seb128> infinity: k, thanks
<mjr> ,24,24
<mdz> anyone know how netbooting works on powerpc?
<mdz> ah, it uses yaboot
<seb128> elmo: can you update concordia chroot please?
<mvo> mdz: ogra asked if mknbi can move to main (it's a new dependency of ltsp, he already wrote a maininclusion report. his network is down I have him on the phone right now
<mvo> it's FTBFS right now, but we have a fix
<mdz> mvo: yes, it should be considered for main, but meanwhile I've relaxed the dependency to unblock him
<mdz> I just uploaded ltsp
<mvo> mdz: ogra says thanks you :)
<hunger> Any chance of someone upgrading monotone to the debian version?
<mdz> mvo: does he want new CD builds when it's ready?
<infinity> seb128 : I'm going to go nap so we don't step on each others' toes.  I'll finish the mesa transition when I wake up, under the assumption that you've already uploaded all your trivial rebuilds.
<infinity> seb128 : If anything you upload is FTBFS due to mesa/gl/glu stuff, don't worry about it, I'll fix it for you.
* infinity mutters about the insanity of doing two library transitions at once with overlapping packages, but is comforted by the knowlege that this gives him an excuse to go to bed.
<seb128> infinity: k, thank you. Have a good night :)
<mvo> mdz: he hasn't figured how to put the edubuntu-server package on the cd yet, so it's probably best to wait a bit 
<mvo> mdz: his upstream network provider (deutsche telekom) has a failure in his area and everyone is offline right now (in his area)
<infinity> seb128 : Just be sure to be working on fresh sources, since I've uploaded a few things in the last half hour.
<infinity> seb128 : Not sure what, if anything, overlaps with stuff you need to rebuild.
<seb128> will do, thanks
<mjg59> jdub: Could you plesae forward me admin information for the laptop testing list?
<elmo> seb128: done on the amd64 chroot
<elmo> benc is using the i386 one atm
<infinity> elmo : You may want to do it again after the next cron.daily, to make sure seb128's working on Packages and Sources that are in sync with my uploads before bed.
<infinity> elmo : If you could be so kind.
<seb128> elmo: amd64 one is fine for me, thanks
<seb128> elmo: oh, and get you install libxine-dev and liblaunchpad-integration-dev here too please?
<seb128> thank you
<elmo> seb128: done
<elmo> infinity: ok
<mjg59> elmo: Could you sync hotkey-setup, please?
<mdz> mvo: it should probably be added to the 'ship' line in STRUCTURE
<mvo> mdz: ok, I'll tell him that
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> fabbione, lamont: you guys are ready for the new libcairo?
<pitti> seb128: will you now crank up your mega upload script?
<seb128> pitti: already runned. Now I've to sign all the .changes and then to upload, why?
<lamont> seb128: I'm so far behind that whatever...
<elmo> uh, whacha doing?
<pitti> seb128: just curious :-)
<lamont> I thought libcairo was already in the archive...
<lamont> elmo: the new libcario produces libcairo2 not libcairo1, so they're rebuilding everything that Depends: libcairo1
<seb128> elmo: libcairo soname change
<seb128> elmo: gtk uses cairo so everything that built with gtk since it uses cairo is to rebuild, which is ~200 packages
<lamont> what plays the startup sound?  as in, how would someone nuke it?
<elmo> christ on a stick
<j^> lamont sudo gdmsetup
<elmo> seb128: you're using <n>build<n> ratherr than <n>ubuntu<n> right?
<seb128> lamont: GNOME or GDM startup?
<elmo> well where it wasn't ubuntu already
<lamont> seb128: both
<seb128> elmo: I'm using doko's script
<elmo> doko: ?
<doko> yep, same as use for the C++ rebuilds
<doko> s/use/used/
<seb128> lamont: gdmsetup for gdm as said, system, pref, sound, sound events for GNOME
<elmo> ok
<lamont> seb128: j^: thanks
<seb128> np
<lamont> seb128: once your mega-upload is done (i.e., in the archive), please poke me
<lamont> freshening the home mirror is going to take a little bit of help, you see....
<lamont> for the record, sneaker-net sucks
<doko> elmo: some time for some syncs?
<seb128> lamont: k
<markos_> doko: ping
<doko> markos_: pong
<markos_> doko: (i ask here, as it is mainly an ubuntu relate bug, though it applies just as well to debian)
<markos_> doko: ubuntu #1844, is there a reason why it doesn't get applied, seems quite trivial
<doko> markos_: according to the bug log, this one is applied
<markos_> er, sorry #2374 i meant
<mdz> seb128: what is the ETA for the remaining LaunchpadIntegration apps?
<mjg59> mdz: What's the right way of dealing with that grub patch? Should I just add it and upload?
<mdz> mjg59: yep
<mjg59> mdz: Ok, I'll try to do that tomorrow
* lamont lunches
<mdz> mjg59: and send a call for testing to -devel or something
<mdz> mjg59: asking people to re-grub-install and make sure it still works
<seb128> mdz: before UI freeze. gnome-games, gnomemeeting, gimp this week, not sure about firefox it's not a standard GTK/GNOME app, maybe next week
<markos_> doko: #302875 in Debian BTS
<mdz> seb128: is that everything?  it seems like there are more missing
<mdz> seb128: like gaim
<seb128> mdz: gaim is patched
<mdz> oh, I needed to restart it
<seb128> maybe it didn't build? what version do you have
<doko> markos_: ahh, I didn't see the update. I did ask simos to test with OO.o2.
<seb128> mdz: it built, restart it probably :)
<markos_> doko: cool, is it possible to backport this one back to the debian packages?
<mdz> seb128: <mdz> oh, I needed to restart it
<doko> markos_: that should be easy
<seb128> mdz: ups, right!
<markos_> doko: ok, so can't wait for the next OOo upload :-)
<markos_> doko: thx
<mdz> mvo: can you add launchpad-integration support to gnome-app-install?
<seb128> $ ls *.changes | wc -l
<seb128> 159
<seb128> they are ready to upload
<seb128> nobody has an objection before I start?
<mvo> mdz: I need to ask seb128 how to do it for python based apps, but yes, sure
<mdz> mvo: it's pretty easy, you just add a couple of menu items which call the launchpad-integration program
<seb128> mvo: wrap the useful function and do a binding of lpi is one option, the other one is to copy the label/action for this one
<mdz> yeah, I guess you could import the module and call it directly too
* mvo gets the lpi-source
<seb128> anyway time for dinner here
<seb128> and let's upload the cairo transition
<mdz> pitti: here?
<pitti> mdz: yes, banging my head with debubbing
<mdz> pitti: debugging what?
<pitti> mdz: #13486, doko thinks it could be a compiler bug
<mdz> pitti: maybe take a break and talk to me about language-support-* :-)
<pitti> mdz: but not urgent
<pitti> mdz: sure :-)
<mdz> pitti: are those autogenerated at all, or just regular metapackages?
<pitti> mdz: they are completely autogenerated
<mdz> pitti: ok, we need to remove all of the openoffice.org 1.1.x localization packages from them
<pitti> hmm, I thought I already did?
* pitti checks
<mdz> pitti: and replace them with the oo.o2 ones
<rob^^^> so is mako canonincal's first departure ;)
<mdz> pitti: language-support-ar at least
<pitti> ~/ubuntu/langpack-o-matic/support-depends$ grep openoffice *
<pitti> mdz: ^ yields only ooo.2
<pitti> mdz: however, some packages might not have been updated
<pitti> mdz: ok, I check all of them and update them
<mdz> pitti: I think it may be only -ar; that was the first one I saw
<lamont> mdz: about to push the new livecd script - any more changes you want?\
<mako> rob^^^: a decently large number of people have left canonical over the last year or so
<mako> rob^^^: for a variety of reasons
<tseng> rob^^^: aiui mako will remain on the Community Council
<lamont> rob^^^: I left in may, fwiw
<tseng> rob^^^: which makes it a relative non-issue to the community.
<mako> i'm leaving *canonical* not ubuntu
<Nafallo> *puuuh*
<mako> it means you don't complain to me about missing cds :)
<lamont> mako++
<dilinger> mm.  i've never used this livecd stuff before.  it's neat.
<tseng> mako++ indeed ( you beat me )
<rob^^^> hehe, I was just curious
<Nafallo> mako: who is the next SPOC for that? ;-)
<mako> and it means i stop answering info@ubuntu.com
<mako> (which i'm doing right now)
<tseng> seb128: beagle is in cairo transition?
<rob^^^> oh well, if Ubuntu runs on those $100 laptops all will be well ;)
<tseng> seb128: ah ok.
<mdz> pitti: also, kubuntu seeds need langpack love
<mdz> lamont: what changes are in this one?
<lamont> update-notifier
<mdz> nothing else comes to mind
<mdz> I think there may be some cases where it exits successfully even though something failed
<mdz> but I don't have a case I can point to at the moment
<lamont> ok.  gotta go fetch lunch, then I'll push
<mvo> something wrong with update-notifier?
<doko> pitti, mdz: -ar doesn't exist for OOo2, maybe that's the reason?
<mdz> pitti: once that's fixed, we should be able to move oo.o to universe
<pitti> doko: right, that's why the file became empty and the l-s package wasn't rebuild (bug in l-p-omatic)
<mdz> doko: hmm, openoffice.org2-core depends on ttf-opensymbol which is built by openoffice.org (1.x)
<pitti> mdz: fixed -ar. Can you please check whether any of the current CDs overflow?
<doko> mdz: ohh, yes, built by both packages. will fix it.
<mdz> pitti: is there any way to do that other than running a CD build?
<pitti> mdz: I removed some langpacks yesterday, but I'm not sure whether it was enough
<pitti> mdz: no, I just mean on the current CDs
<pitti> mdz: Kamion could tell me if there is a second image, which isn't published
<pitti> mdz: some log mentioned that the second CD contained a few MB, and so on
<mdz> pitti: oh, the most recent dailies?
<pitti> mdz: yes, I adapted the seeds yesterday, so today's should have them
<mdz> pitti: unfortunately that won't tell us about kubuntu/edubuntu, since their seeds were not merged until just now
<mdz> (I just did them)
<pitti> mdz: right, but I mean for Ubuntu live and install
<pitti> mdz: last time that caused some pretty nasty bug because one X package got dropped and wasn't installable on the first cd
<pitti> dropped -> to the second CD
<mdz> pitti: yes, it looks like there was some overflow
<pitti> darn
<mdz> amd64 by a lot
<pitti> live or install?
<mdz> CD 2 will only be filled with 31150552 bytes ...
<mdz> install
<mdz> only looking at install so far
<seb128> tseng: everything built with GTK since it uses cairo
<pitti> 31 MB? urgh
<mdz> i386 by a small amount
<mdz> CD 2 will only be filled with 928702 bytes ...
<seb128> tseng: could you transition gtk-sharp/gtk-sharp2-unstable to use gtkhtml3
<seb128> gtkhtml3.8
<mdz> powerpc looks OK
<tseng> seb128: why 3.8?
<seb128> to move 3.6 to universe
<tseng> seb128: debian is playing very conservative
<tseng> seb128: it was hard for me to sell t hem on 3.6
<seb128> and we are playing "one version to main is enough"
<mdz> pitti: I don't think the live CDs can overflow
<tseng> ok, fine
<mdz> it would just make a big image
<seb128> can't you just change the Build-Depends?
<pitti> ok
<tseng> I can
<mdz> 655M breezy-live-amd64.iso  632M breezy-live-powerpc.iso
<mdz> 654M breezy-live-i386.iso
<seb128> we are not going to sync on Debian again for 5.10, are we?
<tseng> no, but id like to be much more in sync +1
<mdz> so it looks like they are a few MB over 650
<tseng> its fine, ill fix it tonight if that is soon enough
<mdz> i386/amd64
<pitti> mdz: we need to keep them below 650?
<seb128> there is no hurry, thanks
<tseng> nps
<mdz> pitti: yes
<seb128> is there a new f-spot planned too?
<tseng> its out, but i dont like it
<tseng> there are several crashers on my box
<mdz> CD 1 filled with 647070446 bytes ... (limit was 653262848)
<seb128> the new version import photos from mass storage devices
<mdz> pitti: ^^ that many bytes
<seb128> grumpf
<seb128> and the current version is useless for lusers with mass storages devices
<mdz> pitti: hmm, actually that is not the right number
<mdz> that excludes the space reserved for the kernels and stuff I think
<mdz> anyway the .iso should be <= 650MB
<tseng> yes, i can track down lewing someday
<tseng> he just had a baby and stuff
<pitti> mdz: ok, amd64/install (hopefully enough) downsized
<mdz> pitti: I'll do a build to check
<mdz> pitti: once the seeds are updated
<torkel> tseng: is the file backend supposed to work in beagle or does it have to be updated for the new inotify?
<tseng> torkel: it is out of sync
<tseng> torkel: you need cvs
<tseng> will work with 2.6.13 inotify
<torkel> tseng: ok
<mdz> pitti: if you changed live, you also need to upload ubuntu-meta
<mdz> and we need to wait for it to build and do new cloops
<mdz> Mithrandir: you looked at partimage for amd64 and said it was a lot of work, right?
<pitti> mdz: now I removed some packs from i386/install; I guess in the final version we can add them again since right now our update packs are nonempty
<mdz> pitti: can you do the kubuntu changes as well?
<pitti> mdz: sure, where are the seeds again?
<pitti> same archive?
<torkel> tseng: which is what the Ubuntu 2.6.12 kernel is using right?
<tseng> torkel: yes.
<pitti> mdz: nevermind, found them
<tseng> torkel: im definately expecting to rememdy this by release time
<torkel> tseng: ok
<mdz> pitti: adjacent archives
<ompaul> very impressed with livecd of breezy, many steps in the right direction
<ompaul> as joe user thanks peeps
<mdz> ompaul: thanks, onward and upward ;-)
<mdz> pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/breezy/ has your changes now?
<pitti> mdz: yes
<mdz> pitti: install CDs building
<pitti> mdz: however, I didn't fix Kubuntu yet
<pitti> doing that ATM
<mdz> pitti: only building ubuntu
<pitti> mdz: uh, kubuntu seeds contain two files ,,index
<pitti> and ,,index-by-name
<pitti> this is certainly crap, right?
<mdz> pitti: 
<mdz> little:[...cdimage.no-name-yet.com/log]  grep filled ubuntu-daily-20050818.1.log
<mdz> CD 1 will only be filled with 618391018 bytes ...
<mdz> CD 1 will only be filled with 651116610 bytes ...
<mdz> CD 1 will only be filled with 617431978 bytes ...
<mdz> pitti: I don't see those files
<mdz> pitti: kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--breezy--0
<pitti> mdz: the second size is still amd64 or i386?
<mdz> that should be amd64/i386/powerpc
<pitti> oh, bytes
<pitti> so that's actually fine
<lamont> Setting up hotplug (0.0.20040329-22ubuntu5) ...
<lamont> Installing new version of config file /etc/hotplug/firmware.agent ...
<lamont> grep: /etc/network/interfaces: No such file or directory
<lamont> bad hotplug!
<mdz> pitti: yes
<mdz> pitti: in fact i386 has plenty of space
<pitti> mdz: I think I will fill them up when we have the final langpacks and empty update packs
<pitti> mdz: then I can do precise size calculations and we have fixed numbers
<pitti> mdz: ok with you?
<mdz> pitti: I need to merge the ubuntu seeds into kubuntu again
<mdz> pitti: I think this will create a conflict with your langpack changes
<mdz> so if you have not started yet, wait a moment
<mdz> pitti: ok with me
<pitti> mdz: I started, but didn't merge
<pitti> erm, commit
<pitti> so just commit, I'll update afterwards
<mdz> ok, I sort of handwaved resolving the conflict from the merge
<mdz> because you were going to fix it up anyway
<pitti> yes
<mdz> committed
<mdz> let me know when you are done, and I will roll ubuntu-meta and CD builds
<pitti> mdz: ok, that wasn't too bad
<\sh> infinity: ping (I hope u never sleep ;))
<pitti> \sh: he does already
<pitti> well, "already"...
<pitti> it's maybe 4am in .au
<\sh> ok...did anyone created a wiki page for the mesa transition?
<\sh> or can someone shortly summarize the build-dep/install-dep  changes, so I can create one?
<pitti> mdz: -== Installer documentation ==
<pitti> -
<pitti> mdz: that probably wasn't intentional, I'll add it again (that's from your merge patch)
<\sh> ok colony 3 installation run
<pitti> mdz: kde install and live done
<pitti> mdz: s/kde/kubuntu/
<lamont> mdz: new livecd scripts installed
<lamont> infinity: next buildd upgrade on the DC boxen will speed up buildd-watcher, fwiw
<\sh> damnit
<mdz> pitti: strange, I don't think I deleted that header
<mdz> pitti: maybe it did it as part of the merge
<mdz> pitti: which file was that in?
<pitti> mdz: yes, I only looked at the merge patch
<mdz> lamont: thanks
<pitti> mdz: ship
<pitti> mdz get/show-changeset patch-30
<pitti> mdz: anyway, I added it back
<mdz> lamont: I was thinking, maybe we should only enable ccache on a per-package basis, and add like our top 10 packages to it, to get a better hit rate: oo.o, kernel, X, etc.
<lamont> mdz: 30GB cache... it tends to get pretty good hit rates, ISTR
<mdz> pitti: let me know when your changes appear at /~cjwatson/
<lamont> cache hit                         467328
<lamont> cache miss                       1000971
<pitti> mdz: ok, removed all langpacks but en from i386/amd64 live CDs. Everything that still doesn't fit isn't my fault :-)
<mdz> lamont: that is pretty good
<pitti> mdz: sad to see no language packs at all on the live CD any more, though
<mdz> lamont: could we arrange for 'ccache -s' output at the start and end of build logs?
<\sh> seb128: ping
<mdz> pitti: wow :-/
<mdz> pitti: maybe we can get some back in breezy+1 with squashfs
<mdz> lamont: (taking care not to fail if there is no ccache, etc. of course)
<\sh> hmmm...did anyone know if the libcairo1 rebuild also hit universe?
<paolo-> On what does depend the time between a package upload appears on breezy-changes and its actual presence in the repositories?
<lamont> mdz: yeah, we could do that...   want the stats zeroed at the start and dumped at the end, or just dump them both?
* lamont thinks 'latter'
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildDaemons
<mdz> \sh: judging by the massive number of universe packages which just hit breezy-changes, I'd say yes ;-)
<\sh> paolo-: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildDaemons sorry ,-)
<mdz> lamont: latter
<\sh> mdz: k :)
<mdz> lamont: (we don't do parallel builds, right?)
<lamont> mdz: no parallel
<lamont>  /CurrentlyBuilding is not multithreaded
<\sh> mdz: btw...the debian bts importer imported a lot of "already fixed in ubuntu" stuff :(
<lamont> mdz: I'll add the ccache runs later in the week
<mdz> \sh: I turned it off earlier in breezy and forgot all about it
<mdz> it needs to be on now
<mdz> there were not as many bugs as I feared
<\sh> mdz: we have to clean up
<mdz> \sh: all >= major bugs were assigned as of yesterday
<mdz> if they are not valid for ubuntu, they are being closed
<paolo-> \sh: thank you
<\sh> mdz: better to mark those imported bugs as dependency of a still open ubuntu bug or as duplicate?
<\sh> ah...and thank you debian-installer master for this lovely progress bar
<\sh> in stage 2 of breezy install
<mdz> \sh: thank Kamion
<mdz> \sh: if they are a duplicate, mark them as a duplicate
<\sh> mdz: k..(for the bugs) and actually where is he now? mauritius? niagara falls?
<pitti> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/breezy/live and http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/kubuntu-breezy/live were just updated
<mdz> pitti: thanks
<pitti> mdz: so in theory, all CDs have the gnome/kde packs now and don't overflow
<jdub> jbailey: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12009
<jdub> jbailey: know about this?
<seb128> hate hate hate .la files
<\sh> jesus christ
<\sh> who removed the nice screensaver dialog from breezy?
<tseng> \sh: ogra is working a better one
<\sh> I got a shock..thought I'm back in the early 90ties slackware times *lol*
<jdub> \sh: jamie zawinski
<\sh> jdub: where is he/she living...I will never send him a postcard ;)
<jdub> california
<\sh> ok..no flowers as well
<seb128> "Package debhelper is not available, but is referred to by another package."
<seb128> all the amd64 builds are chocking on that
<seb128> great
<Nafallo> *sigh* sometimes I really love my choose of arch ;-)
<Treenaks> Nafallo: m68k?
<Nafallo> Treenaks: amd64 ;-)
<elmo> uh
<jdub> seb128: holy crap!
<seb128> that an "grep: /usr/lib/libpixman.la: No such file or directory"
<jdub> ah, new cairo :-)
<seb128> something used t
<seb128> something used to depends on that and doesn't
<seb128> and thanks to .la files ... :)
<seb128> hey jdub ;)
<elmo> seb128: example?
<jdub> what's that ld parameter we should be using? ;-)
<elmo> king seems to be okay right now
<jdub> (fsvo should)
<mdz> fabbione: I don't suppose I can get ubuntu-meta built on sparc in the next 12 hours or so
<seb128> elmo: eel2, gnome-python, gnome-pilot for /usr/lib/libpixman.la
<fabbione> mdz: yes i can if you ask me to
<mdz> fabbione: I am asking :-)
<seb128> elmo: the libgnomeui .la file mentionned it before rebuild ... but after rebuild it drops it
<mdz> assuming germinate on jackass pays attention to sparc...elmo?
<fabbione> mdz: i am building gtk+2.0 2.8.1 and i can do manually ubuntu-meta
<fabbione> mdz: the buildd was in manual mode for the mesa gtk transition
<fabbione> mdz: when did you upload it?
<seb128> jdub: --as-needed? That break the build on some archs ..
<mdz> fabbione: 0.65, it was processed at :33
<jdub> seb128: thus fsvo ;-)
<seb128> jdub: we got some RC on Debian which blocked 2.10 for sarge, fun
<jdub> would be nice to get closer to it though
<fabbione> mdz: ok..
<elmo> mdz: sparc, yes
<elmo> and ia64, but not hppa
<fabbione> hey elmo
<fabbione> elmo: sorry that i had to go yesterday...
<fabbione> it was sort of late
<fabbione> (not that today is any earlier)
<seb128> elmo: you asked for amd64? gconf-editor by example
<elmo> seb128: no, sorry I mean the debjelper thing
<elmo> ok
<seb128> elmo: open http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html to get an idea
<seb128> elmo: i386 breaks the same way now :/
<elmo> oh, that's just the buildds using jackass
<elmo> it's a transient thing; the packages will work if given back
<lamont> and not using jackass breaks them differently
<elmo> yeah I know
<lamont> and they're auto-givenback
<elmo> even better
<mdz> lamont: ia64 should get to ubuntu-meta in fairly short order without being prodded, right?
<mdz> it's not exactly a laggard
<seb128> elmo, lamont: thanks
<fabbione> seb128: cairo -> pango done on sparc.. it's building gtk now...
<seb128> fabbione: cool
<fabbione> seb128: anything else that needs to be done manually?
<fabbione> seb128: you rock my little french friend :)
<seb128> no, when you have gtk 2.8 built you can build everything else
<seb128> thanks ;)
<fabbione> perfect
<seb128> do we have an interest to ship .la file out of breaking builds on some changes?
* seb128 wonders what package used to grab libpixman and has stopped
<elmo> fabbione: hum, I don't understand, how do you mean go?
<lu|away> seb128: cairo probably
<fabbione> elmo: i had to go away after the ping...
<lu|away> seb128: I believe pixman is now internal to cairo
<seb128> lu|away: oh, right, I've read that
<seb128> they made that to not expose it to the pixman changes
<seb128> thanks lu|away :)
<seb128> the massive rebuild will fix that too so
* jdub watches his mirror bubble and spit as he updates all of seb128's uploads :-)
<fabbione> jdub: you will make bubbles tomorrow with the new kernel.. i promise you
<fabbione> seb128: DUDE P
<fabbione> seb128: DUDE STOP SNIFFING COCAINA!
<jdub> fabbione: sweet!
<fabbione> no wonder i don't have ubuntu-meta yet on the mirror
<seb128> fabbione: what?
<shawarma> Hi! Can anyone tell me if sbuld tries to use ccache when building?
<shawarma> I mean sbuild, of course.
<fabbione> seb128: i just looked at -changes...
<elmo> shawarma: no, it odesn't
<shawarma> elmo: Ok. Thanks.
<seb128> fabbione: ah :)
<seb128> fabbione: that's new GTK crack ;)
<fabbione> tomorrow it will be ACPI
<fabbione> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/changelog <- this is almost final...
<fabbione> there is some intersting stuff there
<seb128> fabbione: impressive :)
<\sh> elmo: u sure that ccache is not installed in the sbuild chroot?
<\sh> elmo: cause mythtv recognized it on i386
<elmo> \sh: we use ccache on our buildds
<elmo> however there's no code in sbuild to do it
<\sh> elmo: explain this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mythtv/0.18-2/mythtv_0.18-2_20050815-0921-i386-failed.gz
<elmo> sigh
<mdz> \sh: sbuild has no support for ccache
<mdz> \sh: elmo is telling you that we do it on our buildds, but sbuild doesn't
<mdz> the use of ccache on our buildds has nothing to do with sbuild
<\sh> k
<jdub> fabbione: wow :-)
<\sh> mdz: another thing: the build-dep on gcc-3.3 is with purpose?
<mdz> \sh: yes, I delayed the C++ transition because I had no time to do it
<mdz> \sh: I think that 0.18 doesn't build with 4.0, and it will need to use 3.4
<\sh> mdz: I just read your changelog ;-) 
<mdz> \sh: thanks for fixing it up, if that's what you're doing
<\sh> mdz: ok...lets give it a try :)
<\sh> mdz: it's horrible
<mdz> I have been neglecting it
<mdz> there is this ubuntu thing which is keeping me pretty busy
<\sh> mdz: hehe I know I know
<mvo> mdz: I have some pending apt stuff that I would like to talk to you about. do you think we could talk about it sometimes tomorrow (I hope I don't get on your nerves already)
<pitti> OMG, u-changes
<mvo> pitti: the cairo fallout?
<pitti> yes
<pitti> tomorrow's CD rsync will be funny and break my bandwidth quota again
<lamont> \sh: mythtv explicitly runs g++-3.3 without build-depending onit 
<pitti> mdz: btw, did you deliberately disable jigdo for colony 3 and daily? or is that just a transient bug?
<\sh> lamont: and we don't see the problems with ABI change for libqt?
<seb128> pitti: it's for my monthly upload stats :p
<pitti> seb128: ok, I can still beat you with langpacks if I try hard :-)
<\sh> lamont: i'll give it a try with gcc/g++-3.4
<seb128> pitti: ah ah
<seb128> pitti: I've a jocker, new GNOME next week :p
<pitti> darn
<lamont> seb128: the whole thing?  sigh
<seb128> lamont: yeah, and 2.12 just 2 weeks after that
<lamont> hrm libcairo doesn't depend on mesa, or freeglut, right?
<seb128> no
<seb128> (it doesn"t)
<\sh> mdz: sorry to bother again..the "--cpu=i486 --tune=pentium4 --enable-mmx" is it ok for ubuntu?
<paines> hi. i am testing colony 3, and have two problems. some colors can't be find for apps like emascs, i think this is due to missing rgb.txt and liblgu1 can't be installed for nvidia-glx
<elmo> \sh: the first two are fine
<elmo> we force that for all packages anyway, pretty much
<elmo> assuming mythtv does runtime MMX detection, that's fine too
<\sh> k
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with breezy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Feature freeze! https://wiki.ubuntu.com//HelpingWithBugs | Colony 3 is released: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/breezy/colony-3/
<carstenh> JaneW: hi, what do you think about "ballista"? i hab this idea because you suggested "trebuchet"
<carstenh> s/hab/had/
<JaneW> carstenh: never heard of it before....
<carstenh> JaneW: it is some sort of catapult
<JaneW> sounds nice though
<JaneW> it is used here... http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/edrc-ballista/www/
<mdz> mvo: sure
<JaneW> carstenh: but it definitely has a strong sound to it
<carstenh> JaneW: i did not found the project you mentioned a few hours ago. i guess finding a name which is not taken by another project is very hard :/
<carstenh> JaneW: thanks for your help :)
<shawarma> What are we looking for names for?
<mdz> pitti: yes, I intentionally disabled it for that test build because it takes an extra hour or so
<carstenh> shawarma: for an ubuntu firewall
<shawarma> Oh.
<carstenh> shawarma: there ware a lot of good suggestion today, but most are taken by another project. i think ballista could be the winner
<JaneW> assegai (zulu spear)
<carstenh> JaneW: how is this pronounced?
<JaneW> as a guy
<JaneW> more or less
<wasabi_> ANy evaluation of iSCSI support?
<\sh> assegai is a kewl name 
<carstenh> yes, and it is also taken by another project
<\sh> JaneW: where is this zulu online dictionary english zulu?
<fabbione> wasabi_: what do you need that's not there already?
<shawarma> fabbione: Our kernel has iscsi built in?
<JaneW> \sh: just words I know... I am born and bred SA you know!
<wasabi_> fabbione: iscsitarget?
<wasabi_> the iscsid daemons?
<wasabi_> I can't find them, anyways.
<wasabi_> Yeah, and the kernel modules. ;0
<JaneW> fabbione: I already have a theme for Breezy+1 kernel names btw!
<fabbione> 686:CONFIG_SCSI_ISCSI_ATTRS=m
<wasabi_> okay, cool. That's helpful. Need user space though.
<fabbione> JaneW: you will have to talk with BenC for breezy+1 my far far away lady :)
<\sh> JaneW: and zulu is Gautengs third language right?
<fabbione> wasabi_, shawarma: kernel configs are in your /boot
<wasabi_> userspace.
<fabbione> wasabi_: i am giving you an extra info.. take or leave it :)
<shawarma> fabbione: I know, bit ISCSI_ATTRS... Is that iSCSI support?
<fabbione> i didn't check userspace, becuase i don't have iscsi devices here.. yet
<wasabi_> iscsi requires a number of daemons
<wasabi_> just can't find them.
<wasabi_> kernel support isn't very useful without them.
<JaneW> \sh: actually I did a bit of Northern Sotho at school but picked up a little zulu from kitchen staff while waitressing
<wasabi_> thanks though
<JaneW> \sh: zulu and xhosa actually have some quite strong similarities too
<JaneW> fabbione: why?
<fabbione> JaneW: because BenC will soon take over the kernel
<carstenh> "Ballista" is a registered trademark of Carnegie Mellon University.
<fabbione> and i will go back in userland
<\sh> JaneW: hehe...my ex learned zulu in school and she spoke it very fluently last time with the maid
<JaneW> fabbione: oic! :/
<fabbione> JaneW: nothing to be sad about!
<fabbione> JaneW: i will take you with me for my userland naming crack :P
<JaneW> lol deal
<\sh> mdz: u used mythtv 0.18-2 and breezy should I make it 0.18-3 and breezy? or should I add ubuntu to it?
<elmo> mythtv is imported
<elmo> if you're modifying it you should add the usual ubuntu suffix
<\sh> ok...then ubuntu
<\sh> elmo: done :)
* lamont grumbles about the number of build-depends that mesa now has
<Demitar> I seem to still have some breezy keyboard problems, even after ensuring what google found for me (mostly irclogs), xorg.conf: Driver "kbd", packages xkeyboard-config, and xkbutils installed. I still get "Error loading new keyboard description" when trying to do anything (and nothing) with setxkbmap. Have I missed something simple?
* fabbione heads to bed
<fabbione> mdz: i didn't get ubuntu-meta on my mirror yet due to seb flooding archive..
<fabbione> mdz: it should be there by the time i wake up in 6 hours..
<fabbione> mdz: is that ok for you? does it need to be faster than that?
<fabbione> mdz: also.. tomorrow we will upload the new kernel..
<fabbione> (just that you know)
<wasabi_> So what about coda support?
<torkel> wasabi_: isn't code more or lead a dead project?
<torkel> wasabi_: is there anyone actually using coda?
<lamont> glcontextmodes.c:44:24: error: GL/glxint.h: No such file or directory
* lamont looks around for seb128 
<ajmitch> morning
<pitti> Hi ajmitch 
<lamont> hrm.. actually, that's an infinity question...
<ogra> hello world :)
<seb128> lamont: this transition is for infinity
<seb128> <infinity> seb128 : If anything you upload is FTBFS due to mesa/gl/glu stuff, don't worry about it, I'll fix it for you.
<ajmitch> ogra: hi :)
<ogra> finally online again
<ogra> :)
<lamont> seb128: yeah - actually, it's _mesa_ that's ftbfs for me...
<lamont> and I mixed up who the target was... sorry
<seb128> np :)
#ubuntu-devel 2005-08-24
<bur[n] er> anyone know what other package besides xorg-common needs to be reconfigured when upgrading from hoary to breezy?
* bur[n] er forgets and can't find his irc log file
<bur[n] er> disregard that msg... reconfigure xserver-xorg was all that was needed
<doko> lamont: pitti was looking at #13486
<lamont> doko: he looked at it long enough to discover that -O1 works around the gcc issue...
<lamont> I don't think he was looking at it still....
<mdz> doko: gcc-3.3 wants to move to universe
<mdz>  o gcj-3.3 libgcj4 libgcj4-awt libgcj4-common libgcj4-dev            {gcc-3.3}
<mdz> not the source, but those binaries
<Keybuk> a fresh breezy install actually feels quite nice
<doko> mdz: these binaries aren't built anymore, they should vanish automatically?
<doko> mdz: but wait, please keep it in main, we currently need gnat-3.3 as a build dep.
<elmo> mdz: I just did a rene run that might help
<elmo> anastacia always wants to demote NBS stuff
* Keybuk wonders which really crazy, crackful, autopackage-inspired idea to inflict upon mdz first
<Keybuk> <g>
<mdz> Keybuk: did you get accosted by the autofiends?
<aroman> I'm trying to track down a bug in breezy related to i810 and Xorg. I'm getting an error: *** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x<address> ***. Now I'm not sure how to go about this bug. Is there any way to enable more messages from Xorg?
<Keybuk> no :)  I may have upset them a bit though
<mdz> Keybuk: yeah, colony 3 actually feels pretty good, belying the pain of its production
<Keybuk> mdz: only through pain can art and beauty be acheived
<mdz> aroman: Xorg logs detailed messages to /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<aroman> mdz, more detailed than that :P
<mdz> Keybuk: and art can be reduced to pain
<mdz> Keybuk: or is it beauty?
<Keybuk> dunno, we should consult jbailey; he's the expert on combining the three
<aroman> is there a way to find out which version of gcc a binary has been compiled with?
<mdz> aroman: what do you want, a log of every function call?
<aroman> mdz, wouldn't mind that :)
<Keybuk> I strace'd X once, it actually worked
<mdz> aroman: then no, there isn't a way to get that
<aroman> mdz, darn.
<jbailey> Keybuk: Err... 
<doko> aroman: hmm, look at the build logs ...
<doko> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
<aroman> k
<jbailey> aroman: Some binaries have the information in a comments header.
<Mez> keybuk: did you go tonight?
<Nafallo> doko: I might have a bug for you ;-)
<Nafallo> doko: Ubuntu isn't recognised in the default spellchecks in Ubuntu ;-)
<aroman> jbailey, in the binary itself?
<aroman> cuz.. it seems like Xorg is being built with gcc-4.0
<aroman> but 2.6.12-latest is being built with gcc-3.4
<aroman> now.. the i915 driver is in the kernel distribution, and I'm not sure how well they work together
<Mez> jbailey, I think Scott might have had one too many
<Keybuk> Mez: yeah, wasn't a huge turn-out, but was fun
<doko> Nafallo: no, it's a bug that "Debian" is recognized.
<Nafallo> doko: hehe
<Nafallo> depends on how you look at it ;-)
<aroman> X -version will say it's compiled with 3.4.5
<aroman> hrm
<jbailey> Mez: No, he's just begging for one more... And I won't let him have it. =)
<SloMoSnail> aroman: X -version tells you the compiler used for the kernel... but not the one used for X ;)
<jbailey> aroman: Hmm, someone asked this the other day, and I thought we figured out that strip didn't rip it out of the comments field.
<jbailey> But I don't see it in any of my binaries here.
<mjg59> jdub: Pls forward admin details kthxbi
<jdub> mjg59: aha
<jdub> mjg59: righto
<aroman> SloMo, aha...
<mjg59> jdub: Thanks!
<aroman> jbailey, so what? it's a strip bug :S 
<Nafallo> jdub: mailinglist? :-)
<jbailey> aroman: =)
<aroman> jbailey, I haven't done much "real" development. I know C/C++, but I haven't used all these programs like strip, etc... what exactly does strip do? afaik it strips debug information..
<jbailey> Oh, hmm.  Current Debian unstable on ia64 doesn't strip the data out.  Current breezy on ppc does.
<jbailey> It was in a Debian channel, so I was likely using the ia64 for the testing.
<jbailey> aroman: By default, even without specifying -g, The compiler, linker, and assembler may put extra bits into your binary.
<aroman> and strip removes the unneccesary code
<jbailey> strip removes all the things that it knows you don't need to run the program.
<aroman> ok
<jbailey> Right.
<aroman> that makes sense
<aroman> well I'm having a weird X problem... basically X just dies without any error in the log.
<jbailey> aroman: If you want to see a simple example, write a hello world file in C, and do a "gcc -S hello.c"
<jbailey> And then look at what's in hello.
<jbailey> s
<aroman> XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0"
<jbailey> aroman: Are you currently running as the same user you logged in as?
<jbailey> My first guess is that you just don't have rights to the socket.
<aroman> um
<aroman> X doesn't start at all..
<aroman> and I tried running startx or even just X as root
<aroman> so this is with i810 driver (i915 in the kernel)
<aroman> with vesa as my driver it works
<aroman> so I do believe it is a i810 driver problem
<jbailey> Trying 'strace startx'.  It'll give you a lot of information but somewhere in the 4 or 5 pages before it dies, you should see some syscall return an error.
<jbailey> Ah, hmm.
<jbailey> I don't know enough about X to guess that.
<jbailey> Connection reset by peer is usually a permissions error of some sort for me.  Beyond that, I just sit in the corner and look sad until someone helps me.
<aroman> by the way I am running latest hoary...
<aroman> well I had this error waaaay back a few years in redhat 7.2 or 8... and it was an X problem which got fixed in an update...
<aroman> and it was not a permissions problem
<aroman> strace is interesting
<jbailey> With X, anything is possible. =)
<jbailey> It's sort of like a million monkeys got together to code it...  Except that they were really bright monkeys who only had obscure hardware to work with.
<aroman> what the frau!? 
<aroman> this is a line from sudo strace X 2> xlog && less xlog
<aroman> open("/dev/tty". O_RDWR|O_NONBLOCK|O_NOCTTY) =  -1 ENXIO (No such device or address)
<aroman> and after this the glibc error gets printed
<aroman> now.. why is it trying to get /dev/tty? 
<jbailey> Better question is "why is it failing"
<aroman> yeah..
<jbailey> Certainly on my system /dev/tty is 666
<aroman> the device is there
<aroman> and EVERYONE has rw permissions..
<aroman> same
<aroman> 666
<aroman> crw-rw-rw
<aroman> I guess c because it's a device node
<aroman> hmm this is really interesting..
<jbailey> aroman: "character device"
<aroman> jbailey, ah
<jbailey> It means that you can send things to it one byte at a time and expect it to be useful.  It also tends to be sequential read and writes only.
<jbailey> The other option you'll usually see in devices is 'b' for block device.
<aroman> god I need to eat something... I'll be back in 5 minutes...thanks for the insight jbailey... talk to you in a few
<jbailey> aroman: Anytime. =)
<mjg59> jdub: No mail from you...
<jdub> hrm
* jdub checks
<Keybuk> jbailey, aroman: you mean other than the fact you can't open /dev/tty O_NONBLOCK?
<Keybuk> at least, I don't think you can
<jbailey> No idea.  The definetly gets into the realm of maybe crawling a bit too far into X's source code. =)
<mdz> doko: all of the lapack/atlas3 stuff is still pending in anastacia
<mdz> elmo: whoa, stuff is showing up in anastacia that isn't even present in breezy
<elmo> after a cron.sync run?
<mdz> elmo: not directly after, no
<mdz> I did one perhaps an hour ago
<elmo> example?
<mdz>  o libosmesa4-xorg libosmesa4-xorg-dbg libosmesa4-xorg-dev              {xorg}
<mdz>    [Reverse-Depends: Supported seed, libosmesa4-xorg-dev] 
<mdz>  o libebook1.2-3                                       {evolution-data-server}
<mdz>    [Reverse-Depends: contact-lookup-applet] 
<elmo> yeah, that will show up
<elmo> she doesn't know to check the database to see if the binaries still exist
<mdz> is that because you ran rene after I ran cron.sync?
<elmo> ("SQL is hard, let's go shopping")
<elmo> yeah
<mdz> ok
<elmo> (I could fix it, but I'm lazy and just keep rerunning cron.sync)
<Nafallo> wow! more and more proof those are real women. elmo quotes them :-P.
* jbailey wanders away for dinner.
<Keybuk> Nafallo: all of the dak suite are named after someone in particular
<Nafallo> Keybuk: yay! I thought that was just a rumour :-).
<aroman> k that took longer than 5 minutes...
<aroman> so.. back to my error...
<aroman> Xorg with i810 driver and i915 kernel module
<aroman> open("/dev/tty". O_RDWR|O_NONBLOCK|O_NOCTTY) =  -1 ENXIO (No such device or address)
<aroman> this is a line of sudo strace X
<aroman> after that I get *** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x<address> ***
<aroman> why am I not able to open /dev/tty? it's permissions are 666, not to mention the fact I am running X as root
<aroman> what's interesting, is that using the vesa module, it succeeds in opening "/dev/tty", O_RDWR
<aroman> there must be something related to i810 (xorg), i915 (kernel drm) and xorg
<mdz> the tty error is most likely unrelated to your problem
<aroman> mdz, it's what I figured by now, but after that error, X just dies without any error in the log
<aroman> I DO get a bunch of vm86old(<address>) = -1 ENOSYS (Function not implemented)
<mdz> aroman: install the debug version of the X server, run it under gdb, and get a backtrace from the crash
<aroman> mdz, apt-get install xorg-debug? 
<aroman> xserver-xorg-dbg
<aroman> total success lol
<aroman> I ran sudo gdb Xorg-dbg and that froze the machine
<jbailey> Hmm, The right apple key is called "Right win key" in gnome.  That's probably not right. =)
<carstenh> iirc it it mapped to the same keycode, so gnome could not know this :)
<jbailey> carstenh: Right.  Perhaps my default locale should be en_CA@Mac =)
<carstenh> :)
<jdub> mjg59: remote possibility of ping?
<mjg59> jdub: Hi
<mjg59> (Remote but answered)
<jdub> holy cow! :)
<jdub> so i'm diddling with usplash
<mjg59> Yup
<jdub> and helping cliff out a bit doing artwork
<jdub> why are we restricted to 12 colours?
<jdub> i would like 16 colours
<jdub> and a pony
<mjg59> You can have 16 colours
<mjg59> As long as one is black, one is red and one is green
<mjg59> And we have one to use as a progress bar
<mjg59> And one to use as a background for the text
<jdub> ok, your image had 12 colours
<mjg59> Black is negotiable - it can be any colour, as long as it contrasts with the text background colour and doesn't look suck
<mjg59> My image is arbitrary and shit
<jdub> and i just tried a 16 colour image - it looked horrendous
<mjg59> The code may need some hacking to work with usplash
<mjg59> Basically, get me a picture that looks OK and I'll make usplash work with it
<mjg59> I don't entirely understand the BOGL code, and there's no documentation
<jdub> which palette indices do the black/red/green/progress/textbg colours have to be?
<mjg59> They don't
<mjg59> I can sort those
<mjg59> But it helps if they're in a block
<jdub> hrm
<jdub> can you make specific indices for them?
<mjg59> If you'd like
<jdub> so we can muck with images without having to change the code?
<mjg59> Pick numbers, I'll make the code work
<jdub> what are the red and green used for, btw?
<mjg59> Success and failure in the output messages
<mjg59> Green is arguable, we probably need red
<jdub> how will the progress bar be used?
<jdub> like winxp, arbitrary cycling?
<mjg59> That's an interesting question, and one that I will answer in the fullness of time
<jdub> heh
<aroman> I say we should do something like the original bootsplash could do
<mjg59> aroman: Which is?
<aroman> ie. for each service started, display a message, well not really... more like.. starting network, starting hotplug, etc. and progress until all the services are started. I would like to see the progress bar fill up so that at 100%, the system is up and running
<mjg59> aroman: That's possible
<aroman> mjg59, and I would be interested to work on it..
<jdub> but you will never see 100%
<mjg59> But Ubuntu continues starting services after gdm starts, which means that the graphical splash will have vanished
<jdub> because gdm will start :-)
<jdub> haha
<mjg59> Basically:
<mjg59> If we want it to go to 100%, the speed at which it increases will not be constant
<aroman> if I could solve this damn i810 bug! :(
<mjg59> Which is a pain
<mjg59> aroman: Have you checked Bugzilla for an existing bug?
<mdz> infinity: so, you and daniels have created much amusement for Keybuk and myself
<aroman> mjg59, yeah.. it's there, no answers... apparently this bug has been since 22 build of Xorg
<mjg59> aroman: Which bug number?
<aroman> h/o
<aroman> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12418
<aroman> so 12418
<jdub> mjg59: the colour requirement you skipped was text area foreground colour, right?
<aroman> so anyways, with usplash... I mean we could make the progress bar fill up to 100, where 100 means gdm started, or if gdm is not enabled, it means you can now log in...
* jdub would prefer an arbitrary cycle
<mjg59> jdub: That was what I wanted black for
<jdub> mjg59: oh
<mjg59> jdub: Otherwise pick an arbitrary colour
<mjg59> Basically, I need:
<jdub> so the colour roles are:
<mjg59> 1) Something to write with
<mjg59> 2) Something to write on
<mjg59> 3) Something to indicate failure
<Keybuk> we don't need green
<aroman> I like green...
<mjg59> 4) Something to indicate success (may be the same as (1))
<Keybuk> having green to indicate success, and red to indicate failure
<mjg59> 5) Something to draw a progress bar with (may be the same as one of the above)
<Keybuk> when the saturation and value of the green and red are exactly the same
<Keybuk> IS A FUCKING STUPID IDEA
<desrt> failure = bold
<mjg59> It's acceptable for these colours to be used within the artwork as well
<Keybuk> colour is useful to go "LOOK AT ME!"
<mjg59> aroman: Are you using kubuntu or ubuntu?
<Keybuk> so white for everything except red for failure makes the failures stand out
<aroman> mjg59, ubuntu
<desrt> i'd like to ask everyone: isn't gentoo great?
<mjg59> aroman: Ok, fine
<mjg59> aroman: Just checking - that bug report is against the wrong package, then. I'll fix it now.
<aroman> mjg59, that bug isn't in kdm, it's in X/i810/i915, somewhere there
<Keybuk> we did this argument a year ago, and left nathaniel at the bottom of a lake, let's not do it again ;)
<lamont> desrt: wrong channel.  then again, #ubuntu is the wrong channel for that too
<jdub> Keybuk: and yet we still got lumped with blingstart
<desrt> lamont; totally on topic.  we're talking about flashy colours on startup.
<lamont> meh
<Keybuk> jdub: ya know, isn't it almost a year to the day since Oxford?
<jdub> is it?
<Keybuk> and nathaniel claimed he'd have it working by the end of that conf
<aroman> yes, gentoo does have pretty nice splash support
<mjg59> Pretty much
<Keybuk> when was oxford?
<mjg59> August last year
<Keybuk> 9th-20th august
<jdub> golly
<lamont> are we nearly there yet?
<mjg59> So I've been hacking on laptops for you for about a year
<Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/events/2004/canonical-oxford/canonical-oxford-018.html
<jdub> that feels so long ago but so recent all at once
<mjg59> What am I doing with my life?
* Keybuk points at the guy on the left
<Keybuk> THIS MAN FAILED TO BRING YOU USPLASH
<lamont> jdub: definitely
<mjg59> Hurrah for me, eh?
<lamont> mjg59: you totally rock
<aroman> hurrah for mjg59 !!
<lamont> huzzah!
<aroman> so it seems the only way to get ethernet on my laptop is to apply the syskonnect patch and re-compile the kernel..
<aroman> the module just won't build by itself..
<jdub> mjg59: ok, i just flat out don't believe that we need the text output :-)
<HrdwrBoB> aroman: recompile it then just shove the module in the right place
<jdub> mjg59: and it is a waste of my colours!
<mjg59> aroman: File a bug against the kernel, we'll sort it for release
<mjg59> jdub: Acknowledged
<mjg59> jdub: (And ignored. Screw you, hippy!)
<jdub> heh
<jdub> i think this is worth nutting out, though
<mjg59> http://www.netsplit.com/events/2004/canonical-oxford/ - weren't we young and innocent then?
<mjg59> jdub: I think that it's a bit close to release to change the startup experience entirely
<mjg59> jdub: I'd go with weaning people off in two stages
<jdub> oh man
<jdub> you manipulative evil man
<mjg59> First we give them graphics
<mjg59> Then we take away their text
<jdub> using sensible release sensitive answers to blow away my usability/sass concerns
<mjg59> http://www.netsplit.com/events/2004/canonical-oxford/canonical-oxford-028.jpg - I have no recollection as to why that flip chart says "Moo"
<jdub> that's infuriating and wonderful all at the same time
<mjg59> Maybe that was the night before the Antitrust drinking experience
<elmo> mjg59: I probably wrote it
<mdz> it looks like elmo's handwriting
<elmo> my handwriting isn't readable
<elmo> but I tend to write Moo on things like flipcharts as I'm startlingly unoriginal
<Keybuk> mjg59: the scarier ones are the pictures from the original London meeting
<Keybuk> mdz had hair, and thom looks practically pubescent
<mdz> Keybuk: where are those?
<Lathiat> ahh, yay for rebuilds, 600M mirror sync this morning. :)
<mdz> Keybuk: you not only took all of 5 photos at debconf5, you somehow managed to stay out of everyone else's photos too
<Keybuk> mdz: lamont had some
<mdz> oh, you have photos of the mataro tv press conference
<Keybuk> lamont: bring out the London photos
<mdz> that certainly was amusing
<mdz> Keybuk: is your camera's flash bright orange or something?
<lamont> Keybuk: I'll drag out the lot sometime soon-ish - maybe some nice person will go through and catalog them for me.
* lamont has a picture of the world-domination roadmap from the orignal london meeting...
<Keybuk> at least find the one with mdz-with-hair and the thom one :p
<lamont> the thom one?
<elmo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/tmp/
<aroman> also, on 2.6.12-6-386 vga=791 does not work anymore I get a blank screen
<aroman> has there been a transition from the default vesafb driver?
<Keybuk> mdz: dunno, but the ccd does tend vaguely towards red
<Keybuk> I think I'm supposed to colour-correct it afterwards, but gimp sucks at that
<Keybuk> elmo: sweeet
<mdz> aroman: usplash doesn't support vesafb
<aroman> mdz, even with splash disabled vga=791 gives me a blank screen
<mdz> aroman: then don't do that ;-)
<mjg59> mdz: Though it shouldn't give a blank screen
<mjg59> vesafb ought to load instead
<aroman> but I want 1024x768 in my console :P
<mdz> elmo: thom looks pretty disgusted with what lamont just said
<Lathiat> then don't want? ;)
<aroman> Lathiat, no can do!
<aroman> :P
<mdz> and yet Keybuk is very amused
<elmo> mdz: yeah, but scott looks pretty happy
<mdz> that's classic
<tseng> jeff looks totally 70s
<Lathiat> with his toilet^H^H^H^H^H^H laptop?
<tseng> the hair
<mjg59> Why is that picture so speckly?
<elmo> not sure; the rest of the set aren't
<mjg59> mdz looks pretty 70s
<mdz> I have michael j. fox hair in that photo
<mjg59> It's as if you're about to start a porn film, or something
<Keybuk> mdz: but the same sweater
<whiprush_> who is that to the left of Keybuk 
<mdz> lamont
<jsgotangco> morning
<tseng> whiprush_: the backpack is almost certainly stuff with lamont-gear
<mjg59> That backpack contains equipment to set fire to a shed and put it out again
<mjg59> Goddamnit, I want it to be winter
<tseng> i hope those glasses dont entirely belong to jeff
<elmo> mjg59: amen
<elmo> this weather is the suck
<mdz> mjg59: winter?  why?
<mjg59> Winter is more attractive
<mjg59> And I'm sick of being too hot
<mdz> UK weather just cycles between different flavours of miserable
<jsgotangco> lol
<mjg59> mdz: Bah. You should visit Cambridge in winter.
<mdz> I was in cambridge at this time of year, and it was fairly pleasant
<mdz> considering
<mjg59> Yeah
<mjg59> Come here in 5 months
<Keybuk> it was raining earlier this evening on way back from lug
<Keybuk> it was quite pleasant, as it was still warm
* lamont discovers the pics of silbs with flowers in her hair
<mdz> lamont: where are these alleged london photos of yours?
<lamont> mdz: on my desktop machine...
* lamont copies a few up to places
<aroman> mjg59, ok I've attached some files to the i810 bug
<aroman> output of startx, xorg.conf and Xorg.0.log
<mjg59> aroman: Cool, thanks
<lamont> mdz: some of the photos copying to people.u.c/~lamont/pictures
<lamont> note that it'll take a while to copy them.
<lamont> included are the wonderful escher-esuqe trip through the hotel from that april-in-london meeting, etc.
<aroman> mjg59, no problem.. I want to get involved in solving this bug... 
<mjg59> aroman: That's the entirity of the Xorg.0.log?
<lamont> ew.  42 pics at ~ 10 min /pic...  there's gonna be a bit of a wait.
<aroman> mjg59, yup
<mjg59> Looks like it's crashing on BIOS interaction
<mjg59> Weird
<aroman> it's crashing somewhere... but it's not crashing in a normal fashion...
<mjg59> aroman: Ok, looks solidly like a driver bug
<aroman> because that glibc warning/error doesn't go in the log
<aroman> just in the console
* lamont bb l
<aroman> so X dies before it gets the chance to print the message in the log... I think
<mjg59> "Use the OS setup option ACPI=Disabled at the initial OS setup screen.
<mjg59> Failure to do so may cause system damage."
<mjg59> Yes. That would be because YOU'VE BROKEN THE FAN CONTROL CODE IN THE DSDT.
<Keybuk> mjg59: who's that?
<mjg59> HP
<Keybuk> heh
<mjg59> It's from their official document on how to install NLD on their business range
<Keybuk> odd, fan control works pretty well on mine
<mjg59> Yeah, it's the newer ones
<Keybuk> so HP have forgotten how to make good laptops
<Keybuk> Dell never knew how
<Keybuk> and IBM got bored and sold Thinkpad
<Keybuk> who do we buy laptops off now? :-/
<jdub> lenovo
<jdub> for all your thinkpad needs
<Lathiat> mjg59: haha, nice
<LaserJock> mdz: yesterday I asked about problems I had installing Colony 3 where the install would stop at "downloading 4 of 8 (0s remaining)" or something like that
<daniels>    * x11proto-gl-dev inexplicably declared Replaces: libglu1-mesa-dev, which
<daniels>      caused VERY CONFUSING THINGS to happen
<daniels> ere
<daniels> mdz: inexplicably -> they both shipped the same file, and that's what normally happens?
<desrt> word.
<desrt> Replaces: is quite nice for not having to manually uninstall the old one yourself
<jlj> infinity: what's the status of new network-manager package?
<LaserJock> well today I checked out my ram and it one of my sticks had errors when I did a memtest
<LaserJock> so I took that stick out and installed colony3 using the other one and everything went fine
<LaserJock> the wierd thing is that I have installed other distros and Hoary on the same machine and everything was fine
<aroman> mjg59, I've also created the kernel bug entry - sk98lin doesn't compile
<aroman> mjg59,  bugid: 13793
<LaserJock> the only time I have had any problems is with the 081405 snapshot and Colony3
<Keybuk> daniels: x11proto-gl-dev -3 provided glu.h and Replaces: libglu1-mesa-dev
<Keybuk> libglu1-mesa-dev gets glu.h, and gets upgraded; but because of the replaces, x11proto-gl-dev still owns the file
<Keybuk> x11proto-gl-dev gets upgraded to -4, which doesn't ship the file, so glu.h goes bye-bye
<daniels> Keybuk: the Replaces also disappeared in -4
<Keybuk> but it's too late by that point
<Keybuk> because libglu1-mesa-dev didn't conflict x11proto-gl-dev, there was no guarantee of the order they'd get installed
<Keybuk> so if libglu1-mesa-dev got upgraded first (which was happening to people) then they lost glu.h
<daniels> cute
<sbalneav> Evening all.
<aroman> all right, I'm off for tonight
<aroman> good night people!
<aroman> until tomorrow
<Keybuk> yay, Braniac is coming back next week
<mdz> daniels: the files moved from x11proto-gl-dev to libglu1-mesa-dev
<mdz> daniels: therefore libglu1-mesa-dev should have replaced x11proto-gl-dev, not the other way around
<Keybuk> infinity did the right thing to the wrong thing
* infinity wonders how he's at fault this morning.
* infinity stares at Keybuk.
<jdub> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/08/new_cryptanalyt.html
<infinity> Keybuk : I didn't "do the wrong thing to the wrong thing", we just forgot to swap it back when the canonical file moved around (again)
<Keybuk> heh, fair enough
<infinity> Thankfully, those pesky headers should have stopped moving by now. :)
<Keybuk> uh, huh; because everyone lost them <g>
<infinity> They'll magically get them back on the next upgrades. :)
<infinity> That's the joy of losing non-conffiles.
<infinity> They just.. Reappear! :)
<daniels> the idea was that x11proto-gl would provide the canonical copies of glx.h and glu.h
<daniels> that decision later got reversed by upstream
<daniels> *shrug*
<Keybuk> it was fun figuring out what happened
<infinity> Yeah, I've done that to myself once before.  But I think it also involved other scary things, like directory->symlink migration on top of backwards replaces.
<infinity> And someone tapping on my forehead with a pencil while I tried to figure it out.
<Keybuk> not quite Swordfish
<Lathiat> heh
<infinity> No, nothing is as bad as being forced to watch Swordfish while figuring out a problem.
<infinity> (Or at all)
<Keybuk> it's not that bad, it scores 8 on a scale of 1 to Antitrust
<daniels> infinity: antitrust is worse than swordfish.
<Keybuk> jinx
<daniels> you can't jinx someone because you expressed the same sentiment
<Keybuk> can
* infinity goes back to uploading, now that seb has churned half the archive.
<mdz> mjg59: I am no longer able to get my T42 to crash no matter how much power.sh crack I enable
<mdz> infinity: are you saying that it moved once before that?  I didn't think libglu1-mesa-dev existed until more recently
<daniels> mdz: libglu1-mesa-dev has existed since the dawn of time
<daniels> mdz: in the beginning, libglu1-mesa-dev and xlibmesa-glu-dev provided glu.h (note that this is not libgl1, or glx.h)
<daniels> then, when we changed xlibmesa*, it was libglu1-mesa-dev and libglu1-xorg-dev providing it
<daniels> then upstream said that it belonged in the proto/GL module
<daniels> so x11proto-gl-dev got it, and Replaced those two
<daniels> then we killed off libglu1-xorg-dev, so it was just x11proto-gl-dev and libglu1-mesa-dev
<daniels> then we had to reverse that, so x11proto-gl-dev no longer shipped it, and the canonical copy lived in libglu1-mesa-dev
<rob^> has the graphical installer has been deferred until after breezy?
<mdz> this is why replaces should be versioned
<rob^> great english skills today..
<mdz> rob^: yes
<rob^> mdz, ok thanks
<infinity> mdz : Yes, obviously.  It would have become a versioned replaces as soon as the copy left libglu1-mesa-dev.. But then it never did, cause it moved back there.  Queue ominous music.  Oh well, it's all sorted now.
<mdz> infinity: yes, I think so.  revving libglu1-mesa-dev should hopefully also fix things for people who lost the file
<mdz> infinity: to me, not knowing that the file had already moved once, it looked like you preemptively added a replaces for the place where the file was going to go in the future :-)
<infinity> mdz : yeah, it's a bit muddy. :)
<mdz> hence "inexplicably"
<daniels> this one was sort of handwaving-through-the-clouds-of-bong-smoke
* infinity frowns.
<infinity>  /build/buildd/pike7.6-7.6.27/src/interpret.c:1287: error: PIC register 'ebx' clobbered in 'asm'
<elmo> infinity: any reason not to do a test-rebuild of main again soon?
<infinity> elmo : None that I can see, though if we're even going to get new kernels on the PPC buildds, -autotest would be a nice way to stress-test them.
<elmo> oh, meh, right
<elmo> and there's the small matter of breezy's amd64 kernel lameness
<infinity> elmo : As I told you before though, I'd have no issues with you scrapping the w-b databse for -autotest every two or three days and letting it start from scratch.
<infinity> I could do it too, but walking the whole DB to --forget everything is a bit inefficient. :)
<infinity> (Oh, wait, that doesn't work anyway, if katie thinks the autotest binaries are installed somewhere)
<daniels> infinity: so the pike people have to write better inline asm
<infinity> daniels : Evidently, but it's not failed before.
<infinity> daniels : So, uhh.  Joy.
<daniels> \o/
<infinity> Also, the pike build system is crazy non-deterministic fun.  If a file fails to compile, it magically drops optimisation and tries again.
<elmo> hahahahahaha
<daniels> ... sweet mother of christ.
<elmo> christ, why do we have that madness in main anyway?
<daniels> i should do that for mesa
<infinity> Ellifiknow.
<daniels> the crazy per-arch optimised stuff (it does a normal build followed by a gentoo build which goes in /usr/lib/i686/...) should do that
<daniels> start at -O9 -funroll-loops -funroll-all-loops -march=p4 -mtune=p4 -fomit-frame-pointer, etc
<daniels> then run the mesa regression test suite against it
<daniels> and step down until we get something that passes
* daniels takes another hit.
<infinity> You'd be more likely to trip on miscompilations than ICEs, leaving you with compiled -- but useless -- binaries.
<daniels> infinity: hence the mesa regression test suite
<infinity> Oh, wait.  I missed the part where you mentioend the testsuite.
<infinity> Yes.
<infinity> You scare me.  Stop now.
<daniels> made.  of.  awesome.
<daniels> (but hey, who needs stupid options when gcc goes 'oh, hey, volatile accesses! we can optimise those out, right? no-one needs those.' anyway)
<infinity> You're not bitter, are you?
<daniels> noooooooo.
<daniels> not at all.
<daniels> i don't hate my users, individually and collectively.
<elmo> for swig apparently
<elmo> go swig
<Lathiat> daniels: Can you compile xorg with -ffast-math ?
<infinity> Oh, this isn't new.  pike has been failing on i386... Since... Since the binutils_2.16 upgrade, it looks like.
* infinity decides to blame elmo.
<elmo> dude talk to the doko
<infinity> elmo : We could disable swig's ability to generate pike bindings.  Like anyone really uses that feature anyway.
<infinity> I'd be willing to bet that 99% of swig usage is for generating python bindings.
<elmo> well that's just the first hit; let's see what melanie thinks
<infinity> Just a guess.
<elmo> hmm, it really is only swig
<infinity> Yeah, swig pulls in every interpreter it's capable of generating bindings for.
<daniels> Lathiat: you ... aren't serious ... are you?
<Lathiat> daniels: of course i am!
<infinity> Many/most of which we want in main anyway, but I see no argument for supporting pike.
<daniels> infinity: i bet the latest hj lu binutils will fix this problem
<daniels> wooooooooo choking on the crackpipe
<infinity> Given that we don't support pike's main use cases (roxen/caudium), supporting pike itself is a bit pointless.
* infinity grumbles at the whole of KDE needing to be rebuilt.
<Lathiat> heh whys that
<infinity> Or.. Just kdebase.  That's not so bad.
<fabbione> morning
<AndyFitz> g'day fabbione
<fabbione> mdz: ubuntu-meta is up
<mdz> fabbione: thanks
<fabbione> no problem
<AndyFitz> ogra, reckon we could get ubuntu-title.ttf packaged ?
<fabbione> mdz, elmo: who is going to be around at 12:00/13:00 UTC? 
<mdz> fabbione: the smart money is on elmo
<mdz> that's 0500/0600 for me
<fabbione> elmo: ?
<fabbione> mdz: i will need somebody with NEW power ;)
<Treenaks> is there a way to create striked-through text?
<mdz> daniels: so it's that point in the release cycle where I try to get my keyboard to work right again
<mdz> daniels: my left alt key works as a perfectly normal modifier, but my right alt key has an identity disorder
<daniels> mdz: ok, here's the two-step procedure
<daniels> step one: throw keyboard out window
<daniels> step two: purchase sensible keyboard
<mdz> there is nothing wrong with my hardware
<daniels> mdz: oh, it's still doing the whole level 3 thing?
<mdz> it works well under Linspire
* mdz waits for a laugh
* infinity tittlers.
<infinity> s/tittler/titters/
<mdz> daniels: no, it's weirder than that
<daniels> mdz: you know, I *did* have respect for you
<mdz> daniels: so I press left_alt+tab, and I get the GNOME window switching dialog
<mdz> daniels: then I release alt, and the dialog stays up
* Treenaks tries to file this piece of knowledge under "Know thy enemy"
<mdz> until I press another key, at which point it goes away, and leaves me in the same window where I started
<daniels> mdz: awesome!
<mdz> regardless of whether I tabbed over to another window
<mdz> this is with setxkbmap -variant dvorak us
<Lathiat> mdz: i get the same thing
<Lathiat> mdz: you sure its not a gnome thing?
<Lathiat> like the same thign happens with ctrl+alt+arrow
<mdz> yes, it does
<mdz> but it seems unlikely to be a gnome thing, to me
<daniels> mdz: wfm
<Lathiat> i kinda find it handy
<mdz> Lathiat: what keyboard configuration do you use?
<Lathiat> can let go of alt
<Lathiat> and scroll back and forwards
<Lathiat> mdz: standard us
<daniels> mdz: regardless of us or us(dvorak)
<mdz> daniels: _really_?
<mdz> it's like right alt is sticky
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> its quite possibly a gnome thing
<daniels> mdz: er, only with right alt?
<daniels> mdz: '05:49 < mdz> daniels: so I press left_alt+tab, and I get the GNOME window switching dialog
<Lathiat> since it can tell the difference between the two
<mdz> daniels: correct
<Lathiat> e.g. i can set mmy second alt to be a compose key
<Lathiat> or whatever
<mdz> daniels: sorry, s/left/right/
<daniels> ok, happens to me too
<daniels> i guess it's a metacity thing, since xkb appears to be doing the right thing in this case
<daniels> mdz: setxkbmap -option compose:ralt
<Lathiat> not sticky in compose mode
<Lathiat> 
<mdz> daniels: that has made my right alt key into a compose key
<infinity> mdz : Permission to break UVF for pike7.6 (7.6.27 -> 7.6.33) to fix the FTBFS?  (pike7.6 has no dependencies in main except for swig, which I'll rebuild and make sure it's okay)
<daniels> Lathiat: i temporarily disabled compose
<mdz> daniels: which means that it no longer exhibits the sticky behaviour, but...it's a compose key
<mdz> infinity: ok
<daniels> mdz: well, yeah.  problem solved!
<daniels> mdz: and you gain the ability to talk to people named sren, kster, etc
<mdz> daniels: it happens to you with a us layout too?
<infinity> Is there value in that?
<infinity> ;)
<Lathiat> and go ?
<Lathiat> err,  :)
<mdz> k
<Treenaks> mdz: I have a US layout
<daniels> yarr, metacity's code is crack
<daniels> mdz: yeah, once I disable compose
<Treenaks> mdz: what should the problem be?
<mdz> Treenaks: the problem is that my right alt key behaves differently from my left alt key
<Treenaks> mdz: right-alt+tab is weirdly sticky here too
<Treenaks> (during alt-tabbing at least)
<mdz> I consider this a bug and a regression
<daniels> mdz: yes
<Treenaks> mdz: I never use my ralt, but yeah, this behaviour is sucky
<Lathiat> i dont think anyone uses their right alt
<daniels> mdz: i *think* it's metacity's code, which I'm looking at the moment
<Treenaks> (compose=menu here :))
<daniels> cue bleeding eyes
<Lathiat> except when single handly changing virtual desktops
<mdz> daniels: haven't found anything in the metacity changelog thus far
<daniels> Treenaks: pc101 4 lyf
<mdz> when does seb128 wake up?
<mdz> Lathiat: I do
<daniels> mdz: it's 0658, so probably not any time soon
<Lathiat> 
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> whats the ctrl+shift+<no> for yarr
<Treenaks> daniels: pc102 actually, but yeah :)
<mdz> daniels: how do I undo compose:ralt?
<Treenaks> 104 even
<infinity> -options ''
<Lathiat> mdz: setxkbmap -option ralt:alt
<mdz> ah, setxbkmap -option ''
<Lathiat> or that
<infinity> s/options/option/ yes.
<mdz> the man page beat infinity by a split second
<daniels> Treenaks: i only have 80 or thereabouts physical keys
<daniels> Treenaks: pc104 is pc101 + windows + menu + windows.  which I don't have on this laptop.
<Lathiat> i have just one windows key
<mdz> yay IBM for omitting the windows keys
<daniels> mdz: exactly, it lets you have a compose key on your ralt and still have no useless keys -- result!
<Lathiat> i have 87 keys
<Lathiat> and 7 'media' keys
<Lathiat> altho there is a virtual numap
<daniels> hm, metacity has broken b-ds as well.  joy.
<Lathiat> so taht adds 14
<Lathiat> so, 101. :)
<mdz> I wouldn't mind having my right windows key be a compose key
<Lathiat> mdz: yeh, thats what i'd use as compose if i had one
<Lathiat> i suppose using my left windows key isnt such a bad idea
<daniels> mdz: -option compose:rwin
<mdz> -option compose:rwin doesn't seem to do that
<daniels> mdz: or compose:menu for the menu one
<mdz> nor does compose:menu do the expected thing
<daniels> fun
<daniels> seems to wfm on standard pc104/us
<mdz> I suppose this al works nicely on us layouts
<daniels> probably
<daniels> although dvorak shouldn't be modifying that
<daniels> anyway, time for breakfast
<Lathiat>  when i open the keyboard capplet.. and the font one.. i get some windowwith a warning title open but goes away to quick to see whats in it, any idea what it is?
<mdz> I should investigate dinner at some point
<mdz> Lathiat: I got that too, with the font capplet
<Lathiat> mdz: yeh, my keyboard one does it too, has for quite a while and its annoying
<Treenaks> daniels: I plugged an external keyboard into my laptop, because the keyboard on it sucks so hard
<Lathiat> i want to get an external keyboard so i can raise my screen up to me eye height
<Treenaks> daniels: (and it's actually a 110-key board, counting the multimedia cruft)
<Lathiat> but some stupid ebay seller hasnt shipped by usb->ps/2 convertor yet
* mdz looks for xev, doesn't find it
<daniels> mdz: i386?
<Lathiat> mdz: indeed
<mdz> daniels: yes
<fabbione> mdz: xev is on my list of 2353 mini pkgs to do
<fabbione> mdz: probably today will be in
<daniels> mdz: http://amnesiac.heapspace.net/~daniels/misc/xev
<mdz> daniels: with -option compose:rwin, my rwin key becomes some sort of dead key, but it doesn't do anything with 2 subsequent keypresses
<mdz> it wants three
<mdz> rwin+'+o produces three 'o's
<daniels> ffs, heisenbug
<mdz> 100% reproducible
<daniels> when I compile metacity with a bit of debugging information in, it's sweet
<Lathiat> haha
<mdz> does it fix the alt key problem?
<Lathiat> leave it in then :)
<daniels> mdz: yes
<mdz> awesome
<daniels> THE SAME VERSION THAT'S IN THE THINGY
<daniels> BUT WITH ONE EXTRA PRINTF
<daniels> unless sebarino sucks
<daniels> and metacity doesn't support xkb
<mdz> compose:lwin doesn't work at all
<mdz> compose:menu has the same problem as compose:rwin
* mdz pummels xkb
<daniels> right
<mdz> -option compose:rwin doesn't work for me with a us layout either
<mdz> is it only me?
<mdz> my X server hasnt' been restarted in a long time
<daniels> daniels@ephemera:~/canonical/metacity% grep Xkb =metacity; sudo dpkg -i metacity_2.11.2-0ubuntu1_i386.deb > /dev/null && grep Xkb =metacity
<daniels> zsh: exit 1     grep Xkb =metacity
<daniels> Binary file /usr/bin/metacity matches
<daniels> the former being the archive version, the latter being my version
<mdz> root      5205  2.6 11.6 334556 241184 ?       R    Jul25 928:20 /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 -audit 0 -auth /var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth vt7
<daniels> mdz: i don't have a windows key, else I'd help
<mdz> I'm going to restart my X server
<mdz> hopefully I have a working xorg.conf
<Lathiat> famous last words
<daniels> ehm.  metacity's configure.in is on crack.
<Lathiat> surprise!
<mdz> YES
<mdz> daniels: /etc/X11/X was a broken symlink to /usr/bin/X11/X
<mdz> didn't fix compose:rwin though
<mdz> oh, and now my scroll wheel doesn't work. BONUS
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> need to add a ZAxisMapping
<daniels> mdz: yeah, x-common fun with moving directories to symlinks
<\sh> and this is a real "serious wake up call" mythtv and inline asm ftbfs on amd64 *yawn*
<\sh> morning gentlemen
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> im surprised it built on x86
<Lathiat> i tried and kept failing
<mdz> Lathiat: I have zaxisampping in xorg.conf, as always
<\sh> Lathiat: tseng called me a "hero" for that ... but when it's build on amd64, I would like to call myself \sh
<Lathiat> mdz: oh? mine wasnt there.
<Lathiat> \sh: heh
<Lathiat> \sh: .. did it ever build on amd64?
<\sh> and powerpc is much more worse "no opcode 'emms'"
<\sh> mdz: possible to compile mythtv against an external libavcodec?
<mdz> \sh: not in general, no
<mdz> \sh: the person to talk to is Chutt on #mythtv
<\sh> mdz: so i have to get the patches for avcodec from somewhere else
<mdz> I had mythtv building on amd64, powerpc and i386 a few months ago
<mdz> and working playback on all three
<mdz> 0.18.1 has some amd64 fixes
<mdz> Chutt is now using an amd64, so it'll work out of the box there in the future
<\sh> mdz: good to know..so I will give 0.18.1 a try later on...
<mdz> \sh: I have 0.18.1 source packages in my repository on dijkstra
<\sh> mdz: send me the link ;)
<\sh> laters...
<jsgotangco> later
<AndyFitz> The Ubuntu font has beenLGPL'ed :-)   http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/Ubuntu-Title.ttf
<jsgotangco> its beautiful!
<jsgotangco> the w and m now blend well
<carstenh> fixed++ :)
<infinity> AndyFitz : Thanks for the license change.
<AndyFitz> infinity.: no worries LGPL is the most simple and sane for a font 
<bob2> woo, godd stuff AndyFitz 
<infinity> AndyFitz : Assuming you want GPL-style protection, yes, LGPL seems the best fit for something as widely-used as a font.
<AndyFitz> now making your own ubuntu derived project is 10% easier
<siretart> bob2: around?
<bob2> indeedy
<siretart> may I query?
<bob2> if it's about lyx, I'm uploading to sid tommorow
<siretart> aah. great!
<siretart> I'm trying to get a working lyx into universe
<bob2> what's wrong wit hthe current one? (aside from being old)
<siretart> if you upload tomorrow, that'll be a great birthday present :)
<siretart> the current one doensn't build at all, because of gcc issues
<bob2> oh, right
<siretart> neiter gcc-3.4 nor gcc-4.0
<bob2> hm
<bob2> that's probably RC in Debian then
<bob2> oops
<siretart> bob2: I tried to check out the arch repository on alioth, but failed
<bob2> hm?
<bob2> that's odd
<siretart> get: invalid revision spec (pkg-lyx-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org--devel)
<bob2> right
<bob2> that's the name of the archive, not something you can check out :)
<siretart> hmm.. what was the right command then?
<bob2> one sec
<bob2> 'baz get  pkg-lyx-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org--devel/lyx--debian--1.0 debian/'
<bob2> tho it's pretty obsolete
<siretart> ah..
<siretart> If you want, I'd like to test your upload to sid in breezy
<siretart> that is, on my breezy installation, of course..
<daniels> mdz: new libx11 and metacity blatted at the archive
<mdz> daniels: thanks for merging Isaac's fix
<daniels> no worries
<daniels> i need to commit that upstream also
<pitti> Good morning
<bob2> siretart: thanks, I'll email you when I've put it somewhere
<siretart> bob2: that'll be great!
<pitti> mdz: do you want separate reports for every universe word list l-support now depends on? these are trivial packages...
<pitti> mjg59: ping
<\sh> re
<ogra> mdz, still around ?
<Mithrandir> mdz: yes, partimage for amd64 is a large amount of work.
<\sh> Mithrandir: please install in breezy chroot on ravel: libmysqlclient14-dev liblame-dev liblircclient-dev libxxf86vm-dev libdvb-dev g++-3.4 gcc-3.4 thx :)
<Mithrandir> E: Couldn't find package thx
<Mithrandir> yeah, and E: Couldn't find package liblame-dev
<Mithrandir> is it multiverse?
<robitaille> Mithrandir: yes
<\sh> yepp
<Mithrandir> \sh: did you investigate why qt ftbfs?
<Mithrandir> \sh: installed
<\sh> Mithrandir: yesterdays fix from me and infinities upload fixed 
<\sh> qt
<Mithrandir> ok, goodie
* ogra is slowly going mad.... my only usable edubuntu iso just dissapeared from cdimage.ubuntu.com :(
<\sh> missing QRegion region; 
<\sh> Mithrandir: thx :)
<jdub> Mithrandir: does suspend work at all on amd64?
<ogra> jdub, it did on hoary
<jdub> ok, so it's intended that it work
<jdub> it would be other factors that made it not work
<jdub> right?
<Mithrandir> jdub: no idea, my amd64 has SATA which makes Things Blow Up
<ogra> jdub, i dont know about amd64 desktop systems... 
<ogra> (mine is a laptop)
<jdub> right, the user has sata :-)
<\sh> ogra: what thoughts are coming to you when I say: libavcodec on amd64?
<ogra> \sh, none... i'm still totally shocked that my iso dissapeared...
<\sh> hmmm
<ogra> and dont know what to do now, since i called for testers for this one
<ogra> the two that are there are totally unusable....
<Mithrandir> jdub: I think fabio is putting some patch to support suspend on SATA now-ish.
<\sh> mdz: mythtv 0.18.1 is ftbfs on amd64 as well, at the same point as 0.18
<ogra> and i dont understand why 20050818 isnt there anymore
<fabbione> Mithrandir, jdub: yes.. but they are experimental. they work on some systems.. not all of them
<fabbione> Mithrandir, jdub: that's for sure better than none of them working
<fabbione> jdub: later this evening they will be in archive
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: suspend-on-sata? Is that like wake-on-lan, but backwards?
* Mithrandir grumbles at the archive spitting out md5sum mismatched Packages.gz
<fabbione> upload planned for 12:00/13:00 UTC more or less
* Mithrandir twaps Treenaks
<jdub> yeah, noticed that change
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: "Hey, disk activity, let's suspend"
* jdub can't find his headphones, suppresses anger.
<\sh> Dear Linus, include updated sk98lin drivers asap so I can work with Linux out of the box
<Treenaks> \sh: you forgot "kthxbye"
<fabbione> \sh it will not happen.. they are working a rewrite of it
<\sh> fabbione: ok..what about this idea...I will create a additional package for it...or a separate kernel package for some marvell yukon ethernet machines?
<\sh> at least for breezy
* fabbione poits \sh to module-assistant
<\sh> fabbione: forget it
<fabbione> \sh the point is simple.. that driver won't be in the stock kernel. Making another kernel for you is not an option.
<\sh> fabbione: module compiling doesn't work with this package...only "patching kernel, recompile kernel, copy module from kernel tree to usbdevice, from usbdevice to r200"
<fabbione> so you can only make a module
<\sh> fabbione: would it be an option for integrating the module into the installer kernel?
<fabbione> jamesh: no
<fabbione> mah
<fabbione> \sh no..
<\sh> see
<fabbione> that means having the module in the stock kernel
<\sh> and this is for cd/dvd less machines with this bloody hardware a "no breezy out of the box at all" .. no pxe install
<fabbione> \sh i am not going to compromise on that as i already explained to you a few times by now
<fabbione> that driver is crap
<fabbione> and we can't commit to support it
<michele> fabbione, looks like everybody wants you to put crappy patches in the kernel ;)
<michele> sounds like a conspiration
<\sh> ah come on...
<daniels> don't forget drm
<\sh> I know I'm teasing fabbione a bit...but, think about this: the normal user doesn't care about "crappy code patches inlines" whatever...they know only: "it's working" or "it's not working" ... and I want to find out what's the best solution for "providing at least unofficial support"
<fabbione> \sh the normal user cares when at the first security upgrade everything breaks down because the driver doesn't compile anymore
<michele> \sh, don't worry, I was making fun of myself... I teased him for the last two days ;)
<\sh> fabbione: the user shouldn't compile the driver at all 
<\sh> I should write a wiki page on how to adjust the install iso ,-)
<fabbione> \sh warning: you are pushing my patience over a certain limit.. 
<fabbione> we have been over this topic over and over
<fabbione> you got an answer with a proper explanation
<\sh> fabbione: forget what I'm saying...:)
<mvo> ping jamesh 
<seb128> hey mvo
<mvo> hey seb128 
<mvo> good morning!
<daniels> morning sebarino
<seb128> hey daniels
<daniels> seb128: just as a heads-up, I uploaded metacity earlier
<daniels> seb128: libx11-dev was missing an x11proto-kb-dev depends, so metacity couldn't use XKBlib.h and thus disabled XKB support
<seb128> daniels: np. What did you change?
<daniels> seb128: so I just changed the B-Ds
<seb128> oh, nice catch :)
<daniels> seb128: removed the xlibs-pic B-D as well since that was a bit bong
<daniels> seb128: try this
<seb128> what sort of bug does that create?
<daniels> seb128: press left-alt+tab
<daniels> seb128: now, on a US keyboard, press right-alt+tab
<seb128> right one does nothing
<daniels> ralt isn't caught as a modifier by all the core stuff, so the keypress throws up the window switch
<daniels> but the keyrelease doesn't break the grab
<daniels> i figured it was probably missing xkb support when I recompiled to add a printf and it magically worked
<seb128> cool
<seb128> infinity: around?
<Mithrandir> I think gamin is leaking memory:
<Mithrandir> 20792 tfheen    15   0  539m 529m  844 S  1.0 35.2  18:15.51 gam_server
<fabbione> Mithrandir: and are you surprised?
<fabbione> Mithrandir: try to use the kill -SIGUSR2 and look in /tmp for the debugging log
<fabbione> you should be able to see in sometime why
<fabbione> mostlikely it's not releasing the lists of monitored dir/files
<rob^> how come lame is included with breezy, but gstreamer0.8-lame isn't?
<jdub> rob^: lame is in multiverse (evil), and the gstreamer package is not built against it
<Mithrandir> $ wc -l /tmp/gamin_debug_pqNZ4B
<Mithrandir> 7280 /tmp/gamin_debug_pqNZ4B
<rob^> does gstreamer0.8-lame have copyright/patent issues?
<seb128> Mithrandir: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=313846
<seb128> rob^: it has
<pitti> seb128: why should it?
<pitti> seb128: lame has, but an interface to lame?
<seb128> pitti: gstreamer0
<seb128> pitti: gstreamer0.8-lame doesn't do anything without lame ...
<seb128> pitti: I mean we can't ship it
<jdub> rob^: we can't ship lame due to mp3 patent concerns
<pitti> seb128: right; well, that's the same issue as with gstreamer-mad and libmad
<rob^> jdub, is in the repo though
<seb128> pitti: yeah
<rob^> its
<pitti>    libmad0 | 0.15.1b-2.1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Packages
<Mithrandir> seb128: internal server error.
<seb128> it's multiverse
<jdub> rob^: and we don't build stuff in main against stuff in universe or multiverse
<seb128> Mithrandir: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13449
<jdub> (or we'd shift it into main, which we simply cannot do with lame)
<pitti> seb128: then we have to demote libmad0, otherwise we can as well ship g-mad
<pitti> same for xine
<rob^> cant you just include gstreamer0.8-lame in universe?
<jdub> pitti: yes, these are also concerning
<pitti> jdub: libmad0 and libxine1 are still in main
<rob^> or multiverse
<seb128> pitti: we don't ship gst-mad, it's universe
<jdub> rob^: we could build it completely separately in multiverse, but that would require all kinds of work we're not interested in doing
<rob^> ah ok
<rob^> np
<Mithrandir> seb128: ok, anything I can do to help getting it fixed?
<jdub> rob^: because the gstreamer plugins are mostly built from one source (at the moment)
<pitti> seb128: I know, but since we ship libmad0 anyway, we can as well ship g-mad; g-mad doesn't have issues, libmad0 has
<seb128> Mithrandir: ping desrt about that, he talk with GNOME guys about it
<jdub> pitti: libmad0 in main is an aberration
<seb128> pitti: right, but my understanding was that we should not ship limbad, not other way
<pitti> seb128: right, just teasing :-)
<Mithrandir> desrt: any idea what's up with ubuntu #13449?  I see the same issue here
<rob^> ok, thanks jdub 
<seb128> ;)
<jdub> (at one point we fixed libxine)
<seb128> (at one point gst will be so good than nobody will care about xine :p)
<jdub> yes, libmad0 is only a suggests
<pitti> seb128: can't be; the package is patented, not copyrighted
<pitti> seb128: so if gst is as good as xine, then it contains the same algorithms and we can't ship it as well
* jdub checks kamion's rdepends processing
<seb128> k, so I got 495 bug mails since aug 1st ...DOH
<seb128> (only from bugzilla.ubuntu I mean)
<seb128> (and these are just gnome bugs, no ubuntu-bugs)
<jdub> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/breezy/rdepends/libmad/libmad0
<jdub> ha ha
<seb128> DOH
<pitti> yes, gst-plugins b-deps on it
<pitti> xine-lib b-deps on it as well
<pitti> same procedure for totem
<pitti> seb128: so AFAICS the only solution is to split off a main-capable package of totem and gst?
<seb128> what about totem? totem-xine?
<pitti> seb128: yes, same thing
<seb128> the solution for totem would be to do 2 sources packages, one for gst, one for xine
<seb128> but that kind of suck
<jdub> perhaps it's worth doing separate builds of gst plugins then
<jdub> xine is harder
<seb128> there is some people who were speaking about gst-plugins0.8-universe
<pitti> jdub: xine is not hard, it's just nasty
<jdub> pitti: build it with the correct deps, ship a package with only the mad loader?
<pitti> jdub: just copy the source package and don't build everything
<jdub> xine-mad... excellent :-)
<pitti> xine-universe
<jdub> oh please can we call it mad? :)
<pitti> erm, no
<pitti> not xine
<pitti> totem-universe
<jdub> why totem?
<jdub> it just depends on xine
<pitti> or better totem-gstreamer and totem-xine source pkgs
<pitti> jdub: xine-lib has to completely be dropped to universe then
<jdub> if we ship a xine-mad package that only includes xineplug_decode_mad.so, totem will just work
<pitti> s/completely be/be completely/
<jdub> hrm, i don't think so
<pitti> jdub: and how do you want to build that?
<jdub> make xine build without mad -> easy
<pitti> jdub: you certainly need xine hearers
<jdub> make a xine-mad source to build just that .so
<jdub> same solution for gstreamer
<pitti> jdub: but we don't need to split xine-lib, but totem
<seb128> what about:
<jdub> totem is already split sufficiently to allow for this
<seb128> - ship everything to main
<seb128> - go to jail
<seb128> - enjoy? hum ... :p
<pitti> seb128: we Europeans won't go to jail
<jdub> seb128: i will not be elmo's bitch :-)
<pitti> we still have reasonably sane laws here
<seb128> HA HA
<daniels> we need to split xine into xine and xine-universe
<seb128> pitti: right ... so let's do this :)
<daniels> jdub: you already are
<pitti> daniels: why?
<jdub> we can make both the xine and gst-plugins packages in main not reference mad at all
<pitti> jdub: again, we need to split totem and completely demote xine into universe
<pitti> no need for splitting xine
<jdub> and build alternate versions in universe or multiverse that only include the mad plugins
<daniels> pitti: split totem?
<daniels> i thought we were shoving xine into main to use that as our preferred backend for breezy
<jdub> pitti: we don't need to push xine into universe
<pitti> daniels: totem-gst for main, and totem-xine for uiverse
<daniels> pitti: errr ... our plan was to do xine as default for breezy
<pitti> daniels: EPATENTS
<daniels> assuming I find some time in my life for things that are not X
<daniels> pitti: exactly, which is wy I need to sit down and split xine into xine and xine-universe
<daniels> this is all part of VideoPlaybackRoadmap :P
<pitti> daniels: I'm using totem-xine, it's so much better than t-gst, but we can't do that in main
<daniels> why not?
<seb128> daniels: the plan was to try both options once the patents part dropped
<jdub> we need to extract the evil shit
<pitti> daniels: all the mpeg stuff is patented
<seb128> pitti: just drop them
<jdub> pitti: and we can do that at the xine level
<daniels> pitti: right, which is why you either just drop it altogether, or build the mpeg stuff separately in universe
<pitti> seb128: after dropping mpeg and mp3 from xine, what would be left to make it preferable to gst?
<daniels> pitti: a/v sync
<jdub> pitti: it works better for video
<pitti> ok
<daniels> pitti: and you can build the plugins in universe anyway
<jdub> pitti: and you can always install the evil stuff from universe/multiverse anyway :)
<pitti> but please don't drop it completelya
<daniels> (which I think is a complete crock, but whatever)
<seb128> pitti: what daniels said ... but I'm not sure of how good is esdsink with BBB's fixes
<pitti> *sigh* patents
<daniels> esd???
<jdub> daniels: (note that explicitly building them elsewhere demonstrates knowledge == triple damages)
<pitti> just move everybody to europe...
<daniels> jdub: yes, hence 'complete crock'
<pitti> or move the european laws to the U.S.
<jdub> jbailey: are we going to do basic initramfs root building on the buildd for breezy?
<jdub> hrm, and latest kernel has hard depends on initramfs-tools
<jdub> bum
<jdub> ...
* jdub upgrades home server for breezy testing :-)
<mvo> I need some advice how to phrase the dialog that updates to the new language-pack structure when language-selector is run. I have now: "Update language support?\nSome packages for full language support are not installed on your system. Do you want to install them now?"
<poningru> that sounds good
<poningru> see the thing is the buttons for that come out as yes/no
<poningru> you may wanna try to make them as install/ dont install
<mvo> right, that sounds good
<mvo> thanks
<poningru> np
<mvo> "install now", "ignore" as captions for the buttons?
<poningru> well the ignore may be confusing
<poningru> but is acceptable
<poningru> depends on what the dialog is coming after
<mvo> I would like to avoid having "install" on both buttons ("Install now", "not install"). maybe "keep"?
<poningru> right
<poningru> no ignore sounds fine for this case
<jsgotangco> install/ignore looks fine to me
<jsgotangco> keep is also good hmmm i prefer that
<poningru> wouldnt you say ignore seems more professional than keep? 
<poningru> keep seems a little childish when compared to ignore
<Nafallo> skip?
<Nafallo> morning btw :-)
<mvo> I like "ignore" better too because there isn't anything to "keep" 
<Nafallo> but you "skip" the installation ;-)
<Nafallo> you may probably say you ignore it to, but that doesn't sound as much as a choice as skip/install IMO.
<Mithrandir> mvo: what does l-s do if you choose don't install/skip/ignore?
<mvo> Mithrandir: bug you again next time
<Nafallo> then it's ignore
<Mithrandir> mvo: yes, but what is the next step it'll walk you through?
<mvo> the dialog opens and you can selector the various languages you want to see supported
<Mithrandir> I would probably use "Upgrade support" and "Remind me next time" then.
<Mithrandir> or something along those lines, remind me next time is a bit long
<mvo> "Remind me again" ?
<mvo> well, not really shorter :/
<jsgotangco> "Remind me again" does sound very friendly
<mvo> thanks, I'll use it then
* pitti wrecked his libc6, brb
<poningru> yeah I really like Remind me again
* Mithrandir wonders where to start on this 2.7MB valgrind log file.
<mvo> Mithrandir: from what package?
<Mithrandir> kino
<Mithrandir> it's from starting it, opening the "open file" dialog and then quitting.
<mvo> *ick*
<mvo> that does not sound like fun :/
<niran> i really should save more often, or at least use something more stable than drpython.
* mvo waves to niran 
* niran wipes away tears and waves back
* Mithrandir glares angrily at mesa and qt3
<Lathiat> pitti: any of those kernel vulns remote or local exploitable for root?
<Treenaks> Lathiat: root doesn't need exploits :P
<Lathiat> err
<Lathiat> you know what i mean ;p
<Lathiat> altho with selinux that isnt necesarily true ;p
<Lathiat> i suppose a crash usually means writing things where they shouldnt be so its possible
<mjg59> mdz: That's with laptop-mode completely disabled?
<mjg59> pitti: Hi
<pitti> Lathiat: no, mostly DoS
<pitti> mjg59: Hi! just tested usplash on my amd64 box with nvidia card, works fine :-)
<mjg59> pitti: Rock
<pitti> mjg59: however, is it already supposed to work on the live CD out of the box?
<mjg59> Not yet
<pitti> mjg59: ok
<Nafallo> mjg59: amd64 + ati mobility radeon 9700 works btw :-)
<pitti> mjg59: on the live CD, I did not get any output after "Starting Ubuntu...", just a long pause
<pitti> that is really irritating
<JaneW> chmj: have you totally taking over the Bluetooth SoC bounty mentoring?
<chmj> JaneW: yes 
<chmj> JaneW: pitti still available to help 
<pitti> yes
<pef> hello
<tepsipakki> does someone here know why *gnome.org is down?
<siretart> daniels: hi. I think there is something weird with xmkmf or makedepend. either xmkmf shoud require the command 'makedepend' or makedepend should provide 'gccmakedep'
<siretart> daniels: if I symlink gccmakedep to makedepend, libforms1 can be built
<fabbione> siretart: be carefull
<fabbione> gccmakedepend is not the same
<siretart> oh
<fabbione> i don't recall details, but they behave differently
* siretart isn't really an x guru, but I only told my observations
<fabbione> siretart: thanks.. that's ok.. i remember hitting my head on it a year ago
<fabbione> that's why i don't recall ;)
<fabbione> or i don't want to remember :P
<siretart> well, for libforms1, makedepends seems to be sufficient, but xmkmf creates makefiles requiring gccmakedep
<siretart> thats the actual problem I see. after symlinking it, it works
<siretart> s/works/builds/
<fabbione> siretart: iirc gccmakedepends needs to be part of Imake
<fabbione> let me check..
<siretart> hm. there is no gccmakedep in imake
<Nafallo> seb128_: why do everything on my system still want libcairo1 installed?
<fabbione> it's either imake or xmkmf...
<fabbione> in my very old pkgs they were all together
<\sh> update from hoary to actual breezy is not working nicely..and removing firefox from hoary and trying to install firefox on breezy doesn't work ,-)
<siretart> fabbione: it used to be in xutils, but this package is empty for now
<fabbione> siretart: yes i know...
<Nafallo> s/do/does/
<seb128_> Nafallo: "everything"?
<fabbione> siretart: we are in the process to start a big X bug squash party from monday..
<fabbione> siretart: just open a bug so that we don't forget
<seb128_> Nafallo: sudo apt-get remove libcairo2
<siretart> fabbione: ok. will do. thanks
<fabbione> siretart: np
<jbailey> jdub: What do you mean initramfs root building on the buildd?
<jbailey> jdub: Having trouble parsing that out. =)
<Nafallo> seb128_: synaptic wants to remove the same things as with libcairo1.
<Nafallo> seb128_: synaptic bug or something? :-)
<seb128_> Nafallo: so things use cairo2 :)
<seb128_> Nafallo: no is just you beeing too impatient, and having both doesn't hurt
<Nafallo> seb128_: yepp, and deps libcairo2 :-P
<seb128_> Nafallo: there was like 200 packages built with cairo1, let's wait to get them build
<seb128_> s/build/rebuild
<Nafallo> seb128_: hmm, oki :-). I thought stuff would know they should use new cairo (which they do), so I can't see why they want to old one :-P.
<seb128_> Nafallo: that doesn't work this way
<seb128_> Nafallo: ldd /usr/bin/nautilus | grep cairo
<Nafallo> hm, oki. so it does use both :-P
<seb128_> Nafallo: you have to rebuild to change a new soname
<seb128_> Nafallo: nautilus does use cairo1, it has not rebuilt yet, cairo2 comes from gtk
<seb128_> Nafallo: the soname is a build time stuff, not a dynamic running one
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> gedit seems to be linked against libcairo 1 and 2
<seb128_> ie: you have to rebuild everything on a soname change, it's not working automagically
<seb128_> Lathiat: gedit is built with cairo1, gtk with cairo2, cf what I was saying
<Lathiat> oh right
<Nafallo> seb128_: hmm, oki. I go with that explaination for a while :-)
<Nafallo> atleast till I find new arguments ;-)
<seb128_> Nafallo: you will not find any good argument on this, soname changes force you to rebuild
<Nafallo> seb128_: yepp. but both wants to remove for instance beagle, which is already updated.
<seb128> both what?
<Nafallo> both libcairo1 and 2 :-)
<seb128> keep both
<seb128> that doesn't hurt
<siretart> fabbione: filed as #13812
<Nafallo> I'll sure will :-)
<seb128> you need this few ko on your hdd or what?
<fabbione> siretart: against what package?
<siretart> fabbione: against xutils. they used to be there
<Nafallo> seb128: hehe, just bugging me to see Installed (local or obsolute). I want stuff to be clean ;-).
<siretart> fabbione: btw, the sparc won't go online this week. Joerg want to put them in another case
<seb128> Nafallo: rebuild 180 packages yourself and you will be here
<fabbione> siretart: ok. no problem for the sparcs.. there is no rush
<seb128> Nafallo: or wait 1 or 2 days
<fabbione> siretart: i am busy enough atm :P
<Nafallo> seb128: *s*
<siretart> sure ;)
<sedak> fabbione 
<Nafallo> seb128: I rather work on libdps1 then ;-)
<sedak> i am considered of adding a driver in the kernel
<pitti> ogra__: schoolbell has debian/ files in the orig.tar.gz; is that upstream's fault or an accident?
<sedak> can i pm you ?
<ogra__> pitti, i dont think anybody of us touched the schoolbell packages
<fabbione> sedak: the kernel is basically closed for breezy. open a wishlist bug with all the info and we will look at it for breezy+1
<pitti> ogra__: Version: 1.1.1-1ubuntu2
<fabbione> sedak: for curiosity... what driver is that?
<ogra__> pitti, except for dep changes in the python transition
<pitti> ogra__: you touched it last, before there was a sync
<sedak> it's http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12679
<sedak> i've already made a separated package
* ogra__ looks at the changelog
<sedak> i need to ask siretart to the right to upload
<sedak> siretart ?
<sedak> you're here ?
<siretart> sedak: yes, im here
* infinity comes back from dinner.
<infinity> seb128 : Still need a mess of give-backs?
<fabbione> siretart: i doubt it can make it for breezy
<seb128> infinity: yeah, due to libpixman.la
<infinity> seb128 : Do you have a list, or do I need to hunt?
<seb128> wait
<siretart> fabbione: I really would like to have lyx in breezy!
<fabbione> siretart: lyx ?
<ogra__> pitti, i definately didnt make it native :)
<daniels> siretart: xmkmf/makedepend> i dunno.  not everything using xmkmf needs makedepend, but it could be nice.
<ogra__> pitti, must have been upstream... 
<Nafallo> siretart: lyx in swedish is luxury, so sure :-)
<seb128> infinity: gnome-desktop eel2 nautilus nautilus-cd-burner totem
<fabbione> daniels: look around my young padowa
<seb128> infinity: these packages with this order, and after that you can massive give back ... do you need the whole list for other stuff?
<daniels> fabbione: hmm?
<siretart> fabbione: lyx is a grafical word processor, using latex
<fabbione> daniels: never mind :)
<fabbione> siretart: and why do you ask me?
<seb128> does somebody know where hides http://arch.ubuntu.com/gnome@arch.ubuntu.com/ ?
<fabbione> siretart: i will upload my first set of pkgs smaller than 1MB today .. for the first time in my life..
<fabbione> it's going to be an experience
<daniels> fabbione: you love modularisation
<seb128> jamesh: do you know what's going on with http://arch.ubuntu.com/gnome@arch.ubuntu.com/ ?
<pitti> seb128: ok, cool, we have (or had) the whole gnome cvs imported?
<Nafallo> hi daniels :-)
<fabbione> daniels: i love sed more :)
<seb128> pitti: maybe not the whole, but a good part yeah ...
<jamesh> seb128: in what sense?
<pitti> jamesh: 404 sense
<seb128> jamesh: 404 not found
<jamesh> hmm
<ogra__> pitti, 1.0-1 has this too
<seb128> jamesh: that used to work ... :)
<pitti> ogra__: ok, nm
<jamesh> seb128: try bazaar.ubuntu.com
<ogra__> pitti, so its upstreams fault... i'll talk to jinty, he made the package afaik
<seb128> jamesh: this one works, thanks
<siretart> daniels: I attached a debdiff to libforms1 to bug #13812 I just filed. It just needs this gccmakedepend issue. now I'm stuck because I don't where to get gccmakedep :(
<pitti> ogra__: either upstream's or the packager's
<ogra__> pitti, they are the same
<jamesh> seb128: no idea why arch.ubuntu.com stopped working though
<pitti> ah :-)
<ogra__> pitti, jinty is release manager for schooltool and friends as well as the packager ;)
<mvo> jamesh: did you got my launchpad-integration mail?
<seb128> jamesh: no big deal, the other one works fine :)
<infinity> seb128 : Do those need to be done serially?
<jamesh> mvo: just looked at it quickly.  I reckon we'll need a bit of extra API for it to actually work from Python though (the "this is my source package name" API)
<jamesh> mvo: or else we'll be directing everyone to /distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/python/whatever
<mvo> jamesh: good point, I'll have a look
<ogra__> pitti, was ripping out mozilla of nvu a requirement or a suggestion ?
<pitti> ogra__: please don't introduce another copy of moz code
<seb128> infinity: yep
<ogra__> pitti, hmm... ok....
<pitti> ogra__: we try to get rid of the code, not get more of it
<infinity> seb128 : Right.  You sucks.  That is all.
<infinity> s/sucks/suck/
<pitti> ogra__: can you please try to build with m-firefox-dev?
* infinity notes that telling people off has much higher impact without typos.
<daniels> siretart: you don't want gccmakedep, I don't understand why you're trying to use it
<ogra__> pitti, have you seen the package ? 
<seb128> infinity: not my fault if we ship these .la files !
<daniels> siretart: the xorg monolithic tree uses 'makedepend', which is packaged under the cleverly-concealing name, 'makedepend'.
<pitti> ogra__: yes; a PITA
<ogra__> jup
<daniels> siretart: i assume everything else using xmkmf uses this also, which would make sense, because xutils previously provided makedepend, not gccmakedep.
<infinity> seb128 : So take daniel's lead and stop shipping them. :)
<daniels> siretart: if you want to use gcc's depend thing, you can, but makedepend is there also.
<seb128> infinity: we should just have a dh_something hacked to drop them
<daniels> dh_stabintheface
<infinity> I'd support that.  dh_destroy should be a facist script that just removes anything we don't like.
<daniels> which eliminates all of the things that make daniels angry
<daniels> 'libtool?  not any more!'
<daniels> 'xprint, not bloody likely'
<Treenaks> dh_fascist ?
<Nafallo> dh_daniels
<Nafallo> :-)
<ogra__> pitti, you should probably leave schooltool for now..., i forwarded you a mail... but it doesnt look like they'll make it in time 
<Treenaks> Nafallo: what should that do? s/^\(Maintainer:\).*/\1 Daniel Stone <>/ in debian/control ?
<pitti> ogra__: ok, then we can also defer schoolbell?
<daniels> Treenaks: hrranghr
<Treenaks> daniels: oh wait, control.in of course
<Nafallo> Treenaks: that and dh_fascist things ;-)
<ogra__> pitti, the mail only talks about schooltool.... and as i said, i doubt they'll make it in time... i told jinty the packages have to be ready and pbuilder/lintian clean before the 30th, but i didnt hear back anything yet
<daniels> lintian?
<ogra__> pitti, see the mail from sabdfl about it... but i dont want to delay edubuntu just because schooltool is late
<daniels> dh_stabintheface would remove lintian also
<jbailey> Is there an easy way to tell what package versions are on the livecd without booting into it?
<daniels> jbailey: download it, mount it, mount the cloop, dpkg -l
<ogra__> (edubuntu is delayed enough already)
<Nafallo> daniels: merge all that in dh_daniels please ;-)
<pitti> ogra__: which mail from Mark? can you forward it to me, please?
<jbailey> daniels: Ah well, thanks. 
<pitti> erm, gcc changelog: "Build-depend on libcairo2-dev"; seb128, did you infiltrate gcc already? gtk bugs in our compiler?
<pitti> gcc - now with font smoothing
<Nafallo> lol
<seb128> pitti: gcc uses gtk :)
<pitti> seb128: does gcc now have a gtk gui???
<pitti> scream
<infinity> pitti : java.
<seb128> pitti: no, but cairo is used for gcj
<ogra__> pitti, i just did... thats the mail i talk about all the time ...
<pitti> ogra: ah, I see
<ogra> :)
<\sh> daniels: xlibmesa-gl-dev is now libgl1-mesa-dev ?
<\sh> or libgl1-xorg-mesa?
<daniels> \sh: libgl1-mesa-dev.  libgl*-xorg* is dead.
<\sh> daniels: and according to this xlibmesa-glu-dev is libglu1-mesa-dev
<infinity> \sh : libgl1-mesa-dev for GL and libglu1-mesa-dev for GLU.
<\sh> infinity: thx ...
<infinity> \sh : I'm still uploading fixes all night.  They have t obe done in a reasonably sane order.
<\sh> infinity: well..I just check the unmetdeps list..and I found a girlfriend again which I fixed before mesa trans.
<infinity> ... You fixed your girlfriend before the mesa transition?
<\sh> hehhee
<infinity> I'm so lost.
<\sh> well..yes...girlfriend is arkrpg ,-)
<Treenaks> \sh: so you're a l33t g4m3r now?
<infinity> Anyhow, if you do plan on fixing stuff, can you make sure to remove ALL references to xlibmesa-* and libgl*-xorg*?
<Nafallo> \sh: your girlfriend needed to be fixed :-). did she build cleanly on all arches?
<daniels> infinity: ... why ... on earth ... does kdebase ... want xmkmf ...
<infinity> \sh : Otherwise, just wait for me to do them all.
<infinity> daniels : Fucked if I know, dude.  CHeck the build log.
<Nafallo> \sh: does that mean you ported virtual valerie? ;-)
<ogra> pitti, ?? only needed for schooltool, but that will not be ready for Breezy; deferred ??
<\sh> infinity: u don't want to do universe, right? 
<ogra> pitti, we need it for edubuntu, the question is which version ...
<pitti> ogra: ah, you can use it on its own? 
<pitti> ogra: ah, ok
<ogra> nope
<daniels> infinity: urgh
<seb128> pitti: is there a known locale issue?
<infinity> \sh : I don't know if I WANT to, but I was going to anyway.
<pitti> seb128: no?
<\sh> infinity: ok...then we will w8 for u :) 
<pitti> ogra: nope == you can't use it on its own?
<ogra> pitti, its just a question if we do a last minute update, if this would need a new main inclusion report, please leave it until we know if they make it
<pitti> ok
<ogra> pitti, i just want to avoid doubled work
<sedak> fabbione, i've uploaded the module package on revu (rtl8180-kernel)
<fabbione> revu??
<sedak> i don't know what to do next ... if someone want to check it, it may be a good idea as it is my first package
<fabbione> what's that?
<sedak> i don't really know :-)
<Nafallo> fabbione: MOTUs reviewsystem :-)
<fabbione> Nafallo: ok
<siretart> daniels: I don't really want gccmakedep. but xmkmf is creating makefile which call that binary!
<fabbione> sedak: -> #ubuntu-motu
<Nafallo> fabbione: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/ for a look ;-)
<fabbione> Nafallo: i am quite busy..
<sedak> ok
<Nafallo> fabbione: oki :-)
<siretart> fabbione: he talks about this one: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=422
<ogra> fabbione, its a kernel nic module, the question i wanted sedak to ask you was if its possible to get it included in the kernel rather then having a separate package in universe thats why i sent him here... 
<zul> fabbione: if need be i can create a patch for it
<fabbione> ogra: breezy kernel is closed
<seb128> mvo: is gnome-language-selector changing any config file?
<fabbione> only bug fixing
<ogra> fabbione, oh
<ogra> ok
<zul> ok
<mvo> seb128: yes the language in /etc/envirorment 
<seb128> mvo: I've used it to install the french input package yesterday and today I've LANG set to fr_FR
<seb128> instead of fr_FR.UTF-8
<mvo> *ick*,
<mvo> seb128: that's a bug, I'll fix it (that it does not set utf-8)
<fabbione> zul: thanks, but we to go bug fixing now..
<pitti> mvo: does l-s touch ~/.profile or call language-env?
<seb128> mvo: thanks to it I've
<seb128> locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
<seb128> locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
<seb128> locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
<seb128> mvo: fr_FR@euro and fr_FR.UTF-8 are generated but not fr_FR ... so it broke my locales :)
<mvo> pitti: no, it does not touch ~/.profile 
<Nafallo> hmm, I got that bug :-)
<pitti> mvo: do you call language-env?
<mvo> pitti: no
<mvo> should I?
<pitti> mvo: seb128 has some l-env magic comments and the wrong LANG= between in his .profile
<pitti> mvo: no, you shouldn't
<Treenaks> seb128: hey, I've heard that about nl_NL vs nl_NL.UTF-8 as well
<Treenaks> pitti: , sorry
<Nafallo> I did dpkg-reconfigure -plow locales to fix is though :-P
<seb128> mvo, pitti: the .profile maybe comes from me, and it's fr_FR@euro which is not b0rked
<seb128> but
<seb128> $ grep LANG /etc/environment
<seb128> LANGUAGE="fr_FR:fr"
<seb128> LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
<seb128> $ sudo gnome-language-selector
<seb128> $ grep LANG /etc/environment
<seb128> LANGUAGE="fr_FR:fr"
<seb128> LANG="fr_FR"
<seb128> 
<seb128> that's it
<seb128> pitti, mvo: thanks
<seb128> mvo: should I bugzilla that?
<mvo> seb128: if you want, but I have made a not for myself already
<daniels> siretart: oh.  libforms1 sucks.
<seb128> mvo: ok, that's fine if you know about it, no need of bugzilla :)
<mvo> ok, thanks for noticing :)
<seb128> np
<tseng> seb128: will you take care of problems from cairo transition?
<tseng> seb128: for example muine ppc ftbfs on libpanel
<siretart> daniels: thats possible. how do I make it to use makedepend?
<daniels> siretart: wait for xmkmf 0.99.0-3, which forces makedepend for projects which can't be arsed picking which one they want :P
<siretart> daniels: excellent! :)
<seb128> tseng: yeah
<tseng> seb128: thanks.
<fabbione> Nafallo: You don't have permission to access /revu/incoming/rtl8180-kernel-0508191415/rtl8180-kernel_0.22.0cvs050817-1_source.changes on this server.
<fabbione> so how one is supposed to check stuff, if you can't download it?
<siretart> fabbione: thats on purpose. that will be fixed in revu2
<seb128> tseng: np. This one should autoretry anyway
<siretart> fabbione: you don't need the changes file, the other files are downloadable
* fabbione scratches his head
<fabbione> yes if i only want to check what's changed....
<fabbione> and i don't need to download *
<siretart> fabbione: yeah, I could have just rm'ed the file, or sed'ded the gpg sigs. but that was more convinient for me to debug this prototype
<siretart> fabbione: you can use the debdiff link from the overview page
<siretart> and sorry, debdiffing to version in archive will be in revu2
<fabbione> even if you sed the gpg sign you obtain nothing useful
<fabbione> once i can download .dsc .diff.gz .orig i can rebuild and get a really signed .changes
<siretart> I wanted to prevent that $RANDOM_GUY grabs signed packages from review and upload it to ubuntu. 
<siretart> there are also ppl with keys in the ubuntu keyring uploading to revu
<fabbione> siretart: just strip the signature :)
<fabbione> or mangle it to death
<sedak> fabbione, i am changing the package a little anyway
<fabbione> ok
<siretart> fabbione: we are currently working on a rewrite: revu2. there we will do something like that. (most probably throwing changes file away and regenerating it, we will see)
<sedak> i'll tell you when i think it'll be the final temporary version :-)
<fabbione> siretart: just strip the signature :)
<fabbione> it's easier
<fabbione> i love "final temporary version" :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<siretart> :)
<JaneW> are there any willing LTSP testers around?
<lu|dinner> define 'ltsp tester' :)
<JaneW> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspBreezyTest
<tseng> morn luis
<luis_> morning, tseng
<JaneW> and http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<luis_> I don't really have time this morning,  but I'll read through; I might have time this afternoon.
<JaneW> luis_: finally https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientIntegration (enough?)
<JaneW> luis_: cool we desperately need more testers
<luis_> I've been interested in playing with ltsp for a long time
<luis_> this seems like a good excuse :)
<luis_> (since I have no other really good reason to do it :)
<ogra> luis_, you need two machines for that, one that acts as ltsp server and one that can PXEboot as thin client
<Lathiat> matching?
<Lathiat> oh
<luis_> ogra: yes, I know; I have three around the house :)
<Lathiat> sorry
<Lathiat> i read that out of nowhere, ignore me.
<luis_> four, but one has not booted in at least three years :)
<Nafallo> hmm, there is nothing new about the breezy+1 conference?
<ogra> yay, pitti
<ogra>   --with-system-nspr      Use system installed NSPR
<ogra>   --with-nspr-prefix=PFX  Prefix where NSPR is installed
<ogra>   --with-nspr-exec-prefix=PFX
<ogra>                           Exec prefix where NSPR is installed
<seb128> infinity: you can start kicking all the other stuff when nautilus is built, few stuff build-depends on nautilus-cd-burner/totem
<ogra> hehe, looks easier then i thought
<pitti> ogra: well, that's nspr, not the complete mozilla; but it's a start :-)
<ogra> (nvu that is)
<pitti> ogra: and using the system nspr is required anyway :-)
<ogra> it doesnt use it now
<luis_> JaneW: anyway, anything in particular you wanted poked on ltsp? or just 'I can pxe-boot the remote client from the server'?
<luis_> 'and nothing immediately blows up'? :)
<ogra> luis_, "you can use it and work with it...."
<luis_> ok
<JaneW> luis_: I am passing on the message for mdz, so you could ask him, else I think testing in general is required...
<luis_> <nod>
<luis_> OK, I'll poke around, after I'm burnt out on the morning's task :)
<Mithrandir> elmo: please sync libtextwrap
<fabbione> elmo: please start the NEW the kernels...
* fabbione adds the pkgs to the seeds
<fabbione> to NEW even
<azeem> daniels: do you happen to have a list of all the new x.org source packages, or is there an easy way to get them
<azeem> ?
<daniels> azeem: ha ha ha ha ha ha
<azeem> pfft
<daniels> daniels@ephemera:~/canonical% find drm/ mesa/ xfonts/ xorg/ -name \*.orig.tar.gz | cut -f1 -d_ | wc -l
<daniels> 122
<daniels> azeem: plus about another 40 or so in drivers
<daniels> azeem: so probably about 170 all up, plus all the apps fabio's doing ... maybe 200 altogether?
<azeem> hrm
<pitti> Hey jdthood , how are you
<jdthood> pitti: Fine, thanks
<seb128> jamesh: 
<seb128> lib/Makefile.am:
<seb128> -EXTRA_DIST = lpi.defs
<seb128> +EXTRA_DIST = lpi.defs lpi.override
<mvo> seb128, jamesh: added, thanks
<seb128> mvo: added what to what? what archive should I package ... ? :)
<mvo> seb128: heh :) added to my branch
<mvo> seb128: I'm changing the name of the python module from "lpi" to "LaunchpadIntegration", please wait with a upload until that is finished 
<seb128> mvo: sure, I'm just playing here, I'm waiting to have a python version of launchpad_integration_set_sourcepackagename :)
<mvo> seb128: already done ;) please merge from my archive
<seb128> pitti: do you know why there is no mozilla-firefox-dom-inspector current version for hoary?
<\sh> hmmm...I will play this weekend with shtoom 
<\sh> I think this is a nice work to do ... learning twisted, learning shtoom ,-)
<pitti> seb128: it's not? did you look in universe? (it shold be there)
<seb128> pitti: a pygtk guy asked here yesterday, he has hoary-security for main and universe 
<seb128> pitti: he says there is no 1.6.0-0ubuntu0.0.1 for it, just 1.6.0-0ubuntu0.1 from warty-security
<pitti> seb128: 
<pitti> mozilla-firefox-dom-inspector | 1.0.2-0ubuntu5 | hoary/universe | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
<pitti> mozilla-firefox-dom-inspector | 1.0.6-0ubuntu0.1 | hoary-security/universe | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
<seb128> hum
<pitti> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/m/mozilla-firefox/
<seb128> k, I'll ping him again
<pitti> it's there
<seb128> sorry for the noise
<seb128> from where do you get the "mozilla-firefox-dom-inspector | 1.0.6-0ubuntu0.1 | hoary-security/universe | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc" ? 
<pitti> seb128: madison on jackass
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: if you have the deb lines for hoary-security, you can also do it locally with apt-cache madison
<pitti> no worries :-)
* pitti tests new libc, rebooting and brb
<pitti> ah, so my new glibc is not a complete disaster at least :)
<seb128> cool
<Nafallo> fabbione: ping
<fabbione> Nafallo: very short pong.. i am going offline for a bit
<Nafallo> fabbione: why did the new kernel sett my root=/dev/hda2 to sda?
<Nafallo> set even
<fabbione> never.. the kernel does NOT set root=
<fabbione> that's initramfs
<fabbione> or grub
<fabbione> the kernel doesn't play with that stuff at all
<fabbione> Nafallo: you want to talk with jbailey 
<infinity> Argh, GCC, QT, glibc, kernel... Could we upload a few more giant packages now, so I can't get anything done?  Please?  Yay.
* fabbione &
* infinity grumbles.
<Nafallo> fabbione: thanx :-)
<j^> seb128 will you update totem to  1.1.4 or is totem not considered part of gnome-desktop?
<fabbione> infinity: is the kernel actually building anywhere?
<fabbione> i mean.. even sparc is already uploaded.
<fabbione> your buildd's are slow...
<infinity> No, but it ate some buildds for a while.  And I felt like complaning.
<fabbione> linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.12-7.11_sparc.changes is NEW
<Nafallo> jbailey: why did the root=/dev/hda2 became root=/dev/sda2 in grubs menu.list after I upgraded the kernel? :-)
<fabbione> infinity: so noone is actually building the kernel?
<seb128> j^: I've updated to 1.1.4 the day of the tarball
<Nafallo> jbailey, fabbione: dooh! I hate ssh :-P
* fabbione goes offline for an hour or so...
<fabbione> infinity: better you get the kernel done for when i am back :P
<infinity> fabbione : powerpc and ia64 are.
<j^> seb128 http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/gnome/totem still shows 1.1.3-0ubuntu4
<fabbione> what's up with amd64/i386?
* fabbione really wants to go and get a nap
<seb128> j^: Source Package: totem, Download: [dsc]  [totem_1.1.4.orig.tar.gz]  [totem_1.1.4-0ubuntu2.diff.gz]  
<seb128> j^: the build issue is on my list
<j^> seb128 http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/totem/1.1.4-0ubuntu2/ failed on all archs
<j^> ah ok
<infinity> fabbione : Uhh, and i386.
<infinity> fabbione : Only amd64 is done.
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> thanks
<fabbione> later
<whiprush_> j^: did you mention the other day that you had patches for network-manager someplace?
<j^> whiprush_ http://bootlab.org/~j/bazaar/
<whiprush_> thanks
<j^> debian-dir--network-manager--0.4 + network-manager--j--0
<lucas> hi
<lucas> I can't seem to find memtest on hoary's CDs. am I blind ? if I am not, what's the pseudo package to submit a wishlist bug about this ? debian-cd ?
<torkel> whiprush_: I never heard anything from the guys working on the kerberos ticket manager. Did the project die?
<Mithrandir> lucas: it's there, package name is memtest86+
<Mithrandir> lucas: it's installed into the grub menu by default
<lucas> I mean it's not available from the isolinux command line at boot
<lucas> without installing ubuntu
<lucas> (like it is in knoppix for example)
<Mithrandir> it's on the live cd
<Mithrandir> at least in breezy
<lucas> ok
<lucas> not in hoary it seems
* pitti seems to remember having used it in hoary, too
<lucas> erm
* lucas tries again
<lucas> :-)
<lucas> I really can't find it. The only available "boot methods" are live and live-expert
<desrt> Mithrandir; no.  no idea.
<desrt> Mithrandir; it's happened to several people, though
<desrt> Mithrandir; kjartan maraas has found a leak in gamin but it's quite small in comparison
<Mithrandir> desrt: is there anything I can do to help track it down?
<desrt> Mithrandir; you can valgrind gam_server i guess
<Mithrandir> desrt: I'm on amd64, unsure if that has anything to do with it (given that the initial report was for i386)
<desrt> Mithrandir; as so far it's been quite difficult for anybody to get it to leak that memory in a controlled environment
<Mithrandir> I'll see what I can get done.
<mdke> what is the workaround to the current x-window-system problem in breezy?
<mdke> (with libgl1-xorg-dri)
<daniels> install libgl1-mesa-dri and libgl1-mesa instead
<lamont> mdz: pics finished copying sometime during the night
<mdke> daniels, okay thanks
<mdke> daniels, i should also remove x-window-system-core?
<mdke> oh sorry my bad
<mdke> i see it
<lamont> lucas: if you have a warty live iso, I expect it's there
<lamont> (memtest, that is)
<tseng> what is the url to the top of the arch supermirror?
<mdke> daniels, actually I can't seem to get it to install those
<mdke> i need to force something?
<mdke> does anyone else know?
<infinity> mdke : It's a transient dependency issue between several metapackages, I suspect.
<mdke> could be
<mdke> but i'd like to fix it because I can't seem to update anything else until i do
<infinity> What's the error?
<infinity> You should be able to give apt explicit instructions on how to proceed.
<infinity> Like "apt-get --purge install libgl1-mesa libglu1-mesa libgl1-mesa-dri x-window-system-core- ubuntu-desktop-"
<infinity> (Note the trailing "-" on the packages you want to remove)
<infinity> You can reinstall ubuntu-desktop in a few days when we've unbroken the metapackage deps.
<mdke> i'll try that command thanks
<azeem> //(/ /w 28
<infinity> mdke : Or something similar.  Note that I've not seen the exact error on your machine, so I'm just guessing at a reasonable solution.  Basically, if apt needs to change state of too many packages at once, it just gives up and begs you to tell it what to do.
<mvo> seb128: do you think we should upload the new python enabled launchpad integration stuff? if so, I can upload a new g-a-i with that enabled 
<infinity> mdke : So you need to tell it (in one run, hence the +/- notation) what to do.
<seb128> mvo: where did that landed? to your archive?
<infinity> mdke : Never an issue in a final release, i we're doing our jobs right, but during development, we confuse apt a LOT at times.
<mvo> seb128: yes, you can merge from it
<seb128> mvo: fine with me. Want to update the package or should I do it?
<mdke> infinity, yeah that is good to know. I'm not 100% sure of all of the packages i need to remove, but I'll tinker around
<seb128> infinity: how is the buildd kicking going?
<infinity> mdke : Alternately, use a smarter frontend like aptitude or dselect, which may actually figure it out for you
<infinity> seb128 : Okay, so far.
<mdke> infinity, okay i'll try
<seb128> infinity: you can massively retry from now since nautilus is built
<infinity> seb128 : <nod>... Just waiting fron cron.daily to finish.
<seb128> cool
<infinity> The GCC/glibc/kernel/QT uploads kinda stuffed me up for bit.
<infinity> I'm just going to find the silver lining and be thankful that no one uploaded OpenOffice too.
<seb128> how does the retry stuff work? You have to give a list of package to the buildds?
<infinity> In essence.
<infinity> I cheat in sick and strange ways.
<seb128> he he
<dilinger> infinity: where are you living now, btw?
<daniels> on the wrong side of town
<infinity> Or the right one.
<infinity> dilinger : Melbourne, last time I looked.
<dieman> grr
<dieman> i think the tds.net mirror is behind again
* Nafallo is back
<jasoncohen> pitti, i thought you weren't going to patch gnupg
<pitti> jasoncohen: well, that open bug and the ubuntu-cve entry just annoyed me :-)
<jasoncohen> pitti, heh, so it wore you down
<pitti> jasoncohen: I couldn't stand bugzilla throwing it at me every day any more :-)
<jasoncohen> pitti, when were the CVE's affecting the kernel found? i didn't see them the last time i checked the list of open CVEs
<pitti> jasoncohen: well, they aren't "found", but requested
<pitti> jasoncohen: I just requested some from mitre some days ago
<pitti> jasoncohen: but mitre only updates their db once or twice a week
<pitti> so they are lagging a bit
<pitti> but many of the kernel CANs are there
<jasoncohen> i still receive DSAs and it's pretty amusing that firefox and mozilla still haven't been patched by Debian. i think they fixed a few of the more serious issues only
<pitti> jasoncohen: yes, only two of them
<pitti> probably those they could backport
<jasoncohen> so, are they just not going to patch the rest?
<pitti> there was a discussion about whether just using new upstreams
<pitti> no idea
<pitti> I learned the hard way that patching can become impossible...
<pitti> or, at least, exponentially hard
<infinity> pitti : Did you see the Debian thunderbird update?... Absolute crack.
<pitti> I remember the ffox one..
<infinity> They backported EVERYTHING between 1.0.2 and 1.0.6 /except the version number/
<pitti> infinity: I saw asacs prepared 1.0.6 package
<infinity> So, it's 1.0.6, but reports 1.0.2.  Crazy.
<pitti> infinity: haha
<pitti> so essentially they used asac's package
<pitti> lol
<infinity> Not sure if that was asac's idea (his name's on the changelog) or joey's.
<infinity> But.  Weird.
<infinity> Very weird.
* fabbione yawns
<pitti> infinity: I talked with asac, he wanted it to be 1.0.6-0sarge1 or so
<fabbione> infinity: how is going ppc build?
<pitti> does anybody have reasonably knowledge about openssl?
<infinity> fabbione : building powerpc-smp right now.
<infinity> pitti : How deep in the API do you need to go?
<pitti> infinity: not at all
<infinity> pitti : I've wrapped my head around some bits used in php-openssl and apache-ssl.
<pitti> infinity: I just wonder whether it will break anything if we change the default md algorithm to sha-1 (from md5)
<fabbione> infinity: ok.. that doesn't tell me much :).. how many other flavours have been done already?
<infinity> Changing the default is almost certainly a bad idea.
<infinity> fabbione : No idea.
<infinity> fabbione : I'm just tailin ght elog.
<pitti> infinity: #13593; upstream does it in 0.9.8 since md5 became less secure
<infinity> pitti : Are we that scared of md5 collisions?
<fabbione> infinity: cd linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.12/debian/build && for i in build-*; do du -sk $i; done
<pitti> infinity: the reporter of that bug has, apparently
<fabbione> you can see by size :)
<pitti> infinity: s/has/is/
<infinity> pitti : In theory, because hashes are tagged uniquely, all the functions that read hashes should read them correctly regardless.
<infinity> pitti : So the only potential for issues is with third party apps that expect something to have been an md5 and now it's not.
<elmo> hum, how do I use the 'rescue' mode without having it mount the root filesystem?
<pitti> infinity: right, but that's the part I don't understand - "(we didn't change 0.9.7 as we didn't want to break existing
<pitti> implementations depending on the default digest being MD5)"
<infinity> pitti : Oh, he's just asking for it for cert generation?.. That sounds more safe.
<infinity> elmo : Get a woody boot disk? :)
<infinity> elmo : Or kick to another VT before it gets to the "mount a root disk" option.
<infinity> pitti : I thought we were talking a fundamental API/ABI change, requesting that all hash/digest functions return sha-1 instead of md5 if the hash is unspecified.
<elmo> yeah, well, I'm having fun figuring out switch to another VT on powerpc d-i
<infinity> pitti : It it's just openssl.cf he wants changed, I doubt it'll break TOO much.
<daniels> elmo: get a real keyboard, hippy
<pitti> infinity: ouch, no. It should still be supported, of course
<infinity> elmo : OpenApple-F2?
<pitti> infinity: ok, I just do that change in breezy, then let's see :-)
<pitti> infinity: thansk
<fabbione> elmo: can't you just use the normal installer in expert mode and stop at parman? go back to the menu and down to the "Execute a shell"?
<daniels> elmo: (more seriously, I think the sense of Fn is inverted, so it's something like OpenApple-Fn-F1)
<fabbione> s/parman/partman
<ogra> fabbione, if he cant switch to console ? 
<fabbione> ogra: that does not require to switch console
<fabbione> it requires to boot the installer in expert mode and make it stop at partman
<ogra> err, yes, i misread, sorry
<fabbione> hit "Go Back"
<fabbione> and go to the main menu, where there is "Execute a shell"
<fabbione> same VT :)
<ogra> :)
<lamont> mdz: syncing syck_0.55-2 from debian will fix ia64's FTBFS  - thoughts?
* lamont must leave for a bit, catch up with you later
<mjg59> Simira: Latest kernel in Breezy should reboot on your hardware
<\sh> re
<sivang> hi all
<fabbione> infinity: please make ppc go faster and install a ppc64 kernel
<pitti> good bye, nice weekend!
<mjg59> I installed a new kernel, rebooted and I have a message telling me I need to reboot
<Lathiat> yeh its good isnt it
<mjg59> I already have done!
<Lathiat> that thing should be shot
<mjg59> On boot, messages telling me I need to reboot ought to be cleaned out
<KaiL> does somebody know about the nvidia driver issues with GeForce2 and older?
<KaiL> because breezy has ONLY the newer driver (which does NOT work with this cards..)
<mjg59> KaiL: Yes. nvidia appear to have shafted us.
<fabbione> KaiL: you can't have 2 nvidia drivers at the same time.
<fabbione> and you need to ask them why the old card is not supported
<Burgundavia> mjg59, sorry I have been offline. My home internet died. There are a few things I want to chat to you about, issues with community people and getting good testing results
<fabbione> it's a binary driver for which there is no code or support from us directly
<KaiL> fabbione, additional packages with "legacy" in the name for the old one?
<infinity> Probably something as simple as missing PCI IDs or something, since their drivers should be backward compatible all the way to the TNT.
<fabbione> KaiL: no way...
<KaiL> ...if the old driver works at least for 2.6.12.....
<fabbione> that probably doesn't
<KaiL> I'm just trying ;)
<infinity> KaiL : Mail nVidia and complain.  Really.  It might help.
<infinity> (Moreso than complaining to us will, that's for sure..)
<KaiL> infinity, my solution is to buy an ATI...:)
<mdz> mjg59: yes, but then I've also re-enabled everything and can't get it to crash
<mjg59> mdz: Uhm. Weird.
<fabbione> hey mdz
<mjg59> Burgundavia: No problem
<jk24> Hi, just one question : what mean "FTBFS" ? (on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HoaryAptGetOrg?highlight=%28schurger%29)
<fabbione> Fail To Build From Source
<KaiL> hmm, which gcc is used for the breezy kernel?
<KaiL> 3.4? 3.3?
<fabbione> 3.4
* fabbione starts to be in short of time...
<fabbione> infinity: how is ppc doing???
<Burgundavia> mjg59, ok, just to confirm, we are testing ootb support for laptops? If it needs a custom hack to get it going, it should be marked as no? (within reason of course)
<elmo> fabbione: it's building packages
<fabbione> elmo: ok great
* fabbione uploads lrm
<jbailey> Nafallo: =)
<fabbione> elmo: i did seed everything already.. so it should be easier for you to handle the stuff
<mjg59> Burgundavia: It should be marked as no and the hack documented
<Burgundavia> mjg59, ok
<daniels> fabbione: what's wrong with lrm?
<fabbione> daniels: kernel abi bump
<mdz> fabbione: hi
<daniels> ah
<fabbione> mdz: i am afraid i won't make it in time to upload d-i and BenC did fall off the net
<fabbione> lrm and linux-meta just uploaded
<KaiL> uhm, which version was the "legacy"? ;)
<hmrocha> KaiL, warty?
<KaiL> hmrocha, nvidia "legacy" driver for GF2
<hmrocha> KaiL, ok, i was out of context, sorry
<mdz> fabbione: did you get a chance to talk to him first?
<fabbione> mdz: yes..
<mdz> fabbione: so he knows what to do?
<fabbione> we had a long talk and stuff.. all of sudden he died
<fabbione> mdz: yes, but if net doesn't come up for him, we can't block the abi transition at the last package :)
<fabbione> mdz: the sources are ready and signed in my homedir on chinstrap
<fabbione> it's only question of a lftp to jackass
<Keybuk> seb128: isn't dragging a .ttf file into nautilus(fonts://) supposed to install them?
<seb128> it does
<seb128> but the view is not refreshed probably
<seb128> the ~/.fonts has it?
<Keybuk> ah, yes
<\sh> hmmm...
<siretart> daniels: I fixed now libforms1. with your latest xmkmf upload, I could build it again. all libraries moved from /usr/X11R6/lib to /usr/lib and /usr/X11R6/include to /usr/include
<siretart> do you want to review that package or do you have enough trust in my? ;)
<siretart> s/my/me/
<siretart> last daniels 
<siretart> sry
<KaiL> 7174 works with 2.6.12, good
<daniels> siretart: i'm too busy to review it anyway, so go nuts
<KaiL> at least that works
<siretart> daniels: ok. sorry bothering..
<daniels> np
<fabbione> YAY
<fabbione> ppc is up
* dieman wonders if theres been any i945 updates to X lately.
<fabbione> right in time 
<dieman> the driver i merged into hoary's X server has bugs :|
<dieman> havent had a chance to look into it yet
<daniels> dieman: hmm.  i think we have the latest (wrt i945) in breezy.  anything in particular?
<dieman> sometimes when you logoff, X respawns into 640x480 but the screen is drawn as the native res (1280x1024) in this case
<dieman> but it isn't a virtual screen
<dieman> didn't have a chance to pull a log, so I need to run up there and recreate the issue
<daniels> nice
<daniels> if you do, bounce it to me and cc alanh@fairlite.demon.co.uk
<dieman> ok
<dieman> i just pulled that patch out of breezy, and im not using dri
<dieman> since the kernel isn't new enough ;)
<daniels> heh
<Lathiat> daniels: what do i look out to figure out what kind of ati an ati is? (like r300 or what?)
<daniels> Lathiat: lspci
<Lathiat> daniels: well, ati firegl v3100 
<Lathiat> havent got access to it atm
<fabbione> elmo: i am going to do a batch upload of X crap, that will need NEW.. please send them right to universe.. nothing needs to go in main now.. these are cp -rp pkg1/debian pkg2/debian + sed -e... pkgs.. so nothing to complex to look at..
<daniels> Lathiat: i think that's rv350 or therabouts, but yeah, lspci.  either that or trawl cvs.freedesktop.org/xorg/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers/ati/radeon_chipset.h
<Lathiat> its apparently a 'radeon'
* Lathiat look
<daniels> lathi	firegl != radeon.
<Lathiat> rv370 apparently
<Lathiat> daniels: well, the page i just looked at lies then :)
<Lathiat> open source 3d/dri ?
<elmo> fabbione: eh, ok
<daniels> Lathiat: a) firegls are certainly not radeons; based off the same chipset, sure, b) with the r300.sf.net driver, assuming it's agp, sure
<Lathiat> daniels: cool
<Lathiat> oops think i annoyed him
* dieman isn't really surprised looking at the scrollback.
<fabbione> mdz: ABI transition should be completed
<fabbione> all kernerl bits and pieces should be in the archive at :33
<mdz> fabbione: should be, or is?
<KaiL> damn nvidia shit.....
<fabbione> lrm will start to build at :35
<fabbione> di uploaded and it will build at :35 too
<fabbione> in theory at :03 of the next everything should be in place
<mdz> d-i needs byhanding
<fabbione> mdz: yes.. it still needs to build first
<mdz> I don't see the d-i- upload in the queue
<fabbione> mdz: i just did it
<mdz> who uploaded it?
<fabbione> me
<fabbione> it will be processed now
<mdz> oh, it hasn't even been accepted yet
<fabbione> mdz: also.. the first batch of X crap is in upload phase
<fabbione> now..
<KaiL> uhm, why can I delete /lib/modules/2.6.12-6-386/volatile/nvidia.ko, reboot and the file is there again? ;)
<fabbione> since it's like 15 hours that i am around...
<fabbione> i would like to get some dinner
<mdz> fabbione: did you talk with elmo about the byhand?  I'm not entirely comfortable doing that part
<KaiL> is there some strange feature, I'm missing? :)
<tseng> KaiL: because its unpacked from an initrd
<fabbione> can i count on you guys to keep an eye on the last bits?
<Lathiat> KaiL: the file is generated on boot
<tseng> or, an initramfs I guess
<fabbione> mdz: no.. i think elmo knows d-i
<KaiL> hmm, and how to REALLY get rid of it? ;)
<tseng> dont load it?
<mdz> fabbione: about being around at the right time and getting it through quickly
<Lathiat> KaiL: uninstall linux-restricted-modules or stop caring about it
<KaiL> ...without removing the restricted overall
<Lathiat> KaiL: why do you care?
<fabbione> KaiL, Lathiat -> #ubuntu
<Lathiat> fabbione: point
<KaiL> Lathiat, the second is a bit problematic, as I'm needing an older one ;)
<Lathiat> fabbione: sorry
<tseng> please file a bug instead of just removing things
<maswan> fabbione: did you need me for something?
<KaiL> tseng, scroll up, the but goes to support@nvidia.com
<KaiL> or better sales@? ;)
<fabbione> maswan: buttercup keeps dieing at light speed, but i really have no time to look at it now.. leave it dead for now :)
<Lathiat> KaiL: -> #ubuntu please
<fabbione> maswan: otherwise i will need to stay here even longer
<elmo> gargar
<fabbione> mdz: no ... but i guess he is experienced enough to know that we are doing the usual abi bump dance by now...
<maswan> fabbione: ACK. I'm on vacation until next week anyway. :)
<elmo> fabbione: are these really all seperate upstream?
<fabbione> maswan 
<fabbione> maswan: enjoy!
<maswan> fabbione: thanks!
<fabbione> elmo: modular X.. all different source
<elmo> this is so much crack
<fabbione> elmo: and it's not even finished..
<fabbione> still uploading and there is more to do
<elmo> 60-130k source
<elmo> x 18 or something
<fabbione> elmo: mdz was asking if you can please be around for when d-i is built
<fabbione> x51 more or less
<fabbione> brb
* fabbione really needs a 5 minutes break
<elmo> someone should tell xorg upstream that really cool people split their projects BY .c file!!!1
<Treenaks> elmo: who are you? Herbert Xu?
<elmo> fabbione: argh, dude, you can't just cut'n'waste copyright files
<fabbione> elmo: daniels told 2 minutes after.. i will fix that later..
<fabbione> 2 minutes after i started the batch upload
<fabbione> i tought they had a common copyright
<fabbione> well up to you if you want to reject them is fine by me
<fabbione> the upload is finished
<elmo> if you don't mind I will, otherwise my inner ftp-master will cry quietly
<fabbione> elmo: ok.. drop them all so that i can reupload the same version
<infinity> But dude, we NEED xeyes in the archive like NOW.
<fabbione> it will make my life easier
<fabbione> infinity: s/NOW/YESTERDAY
<mdz> s/NOW/LAST WEEK/
<infinity> If I can convince upstream to drop xeyes (and other such useless demo apps) from the official 7.0 or 7.1 release, can we never ever ship them again?  Huh, huh? :)
<fabbione> infinity: lrm FTBFS on ppc.. E: Couldn't find package linux-headers-2.6.12-7-powerpc
<fabbione> i am afraid ppc didn't make the daily
<infinity> That's why it's dep-wait, dude.
<infinity> You're looking at the log that triggered the dep-wait.
<fabbione> ah ok
<fabbione> infinity:  i don't have real time access to build log..
<fabbione> nothing i can do about it.. sorry
<infinity> Rebuilding it now.
<fabbione> perfect
<fabbione> am64/i386 are go
<fabbione> what about d-i ?
<infinity> fabbione : Erm.. For some value of "now" that means "right after the two security builds clogging the two buildds that aren't building gcc-3.4 are done"
* fabbione sighs
<fabbione> linux-meta is ok everywhere
<infinity> Should still make cron.daily, unless lrm takes forever to build.
<fabbione> so we miss d-i and lrm on ppc
<fabbione> the latter probably :)
<infinity> If not, you get another half hour wait.  No big deal.
<fabbione> i am off for dinner
<fabbione> back in 20
<infinity> (I'll gloss over the part where the 3 security build just uploaded were done by me, before really thinking)
<infinity> s/build/builds/
<infinity> *cough*
<tseng> is kickstart the prefered method for automated installs?
<Lathiat> i think kickstart is a layer over the debian-installer stuff which in theory is more flexible
<Lathiat> preseed ?
<tseng> right
<Lathiat> ahh lovely 400M mirror sync
<Lathiat> damn these rebuilds
<tseng> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedInstallations?highlight=%28install%29%7C%28automated%29
<tseng> hm
<elmo> mdz: the plan is still do dump oo1 right?
<mdz> elmo: yes
<mdz> doko: what happened with that ttf fix?
<mdz> ttf-opensymbol
<mdz> I guess I'll just switch it on in openoffice.org2 and see what happens
<elmo> mdz: I was also wondering about reducing the number of gcc's in main, but I think we're kind of stuck with 3.3 :(
<mdz> elmo: for what?
<mdz> hmm, grub
<mdz> libpng??
<elmo> yeah, >> 3.3 miscompiled it
<mdz> grub and libpng
<elmo> doko was working on that, but I'm not sure if it's fixed yet
<elmo> grub's changelog talks about 0.97 being the first to support >> 3.3, and we're only on 0.95
<mdz> we will rival woody in our gcc content
<infinity> Woody was.. 2.72, 2.95, 2.96, 3.0..?  I think we're worse.
<\sh> ok...shtoom (SVN HEAD) works for sipgate.de now I can do some real nasty stuff
<elmo> infinity: quick, which ppc buildd do you care least about?
<infinity> elmo : The one you're about to reboot!
<infinity> elmo : Take royal, I just killed the buildd there.
<mdz> elmo: maybe we could at least stop building everything except the C compiler in 3.3
<elmo> infinity: no, it wsn't a request for you to down stuff
<elmo> I mean which one isn't d-i or live cd
<infinity> elmo : Oh.  ross, I think.  Let me doublecheck.
<elmo> thanks
<infinity> Nope, I lie.  ross is DI.
<infinity> adare is the "spare".
<fabbione> YAY
<fabbione> d-i is in..
<fabbione> perfect..
<mdz> jbailey: ping re: 12009
<fabbione> mdz: transition completed for my side..
<infinity> fabbione : lrm is uploaded, so it's in in 2 minues (+ cron.daily runtime)
<infinity> Err, assuming it doesn't need NEW love.
<fabbione> infinity: probably elmo did NEW it already :)
<infinity> elmo : Giving one away..?
<fabbione> infinity: i am happy that everything is built
<infinity> elmo : Or trying to plan who to pick on for the new kernel?
<fabbione> that's all i can do
<elmo> infinity: I'm going to install the normal ubuntu kernel for now, until the FTBFS is fixed
<elmo> but it'll probably break because I aliases /usr/bin/hotplug to /bin/false and stuff like that
<infinity> I jst purge hotplug to get it out of my hair..
<elmo> well, okay I purged it too, but that's not as fun
<\sh> who is the "ubuntu UI master"? ,-)
<Nafallo> \sh: you :-)
<\sh> hahaha
<Nafallo> \sh: and ogra :-)
<\sh> yes
<\sh> Nafallo: btw...shtoom is running with sipgate.de ,-)
<\sh> Nafallo: I'm starting to package this nasty beast
<\sh> (SVN HEAD)
<Nafallo> \sh: ehm, dep twisted 2?
<\sh> Nafallo: is already in breezy
<\sh> or?
<Nafallo> \sh: yesterday you told me it wasn't ;-)
<Nafallo> or last night really :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: didn't check ,-)
<jbailey> mdz: If it's the bug he claims it is, it's already fixed in Hoary and Breezy.
<Nafallo> \sh: dooh! we have it. I was onto package that yesterday :-P.
<Nafallo> \sh: you fooled me! ;-)
* Nafallo goes deep into gnome-about-me instead ;-)
<jbailey> mdz: I need to boot off a live cd when my machine's not building to figure out why he's seeing it there.  It might have gone in as a hoary-update, I don't remember.
<\sh> Nafallo: never trust a word ,-)
<mdz> jbailey: you could ask the submitter
<\sh> Nafallo: I'm packaging SER again...
<mdz> ogra: that glade file you gave me seems to have a hardcoded date displayed in the dialog
<Nafallo> \sh: so now you're packaging both? :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: yes.. I need it first for hoary (to put it on the server somehow..or someone is sponsoring a machine for testing ,-))
<infinity> elmo : Right, so when are you planning on blowing up adare?
<Nafallo> \sh: have to go. screaming girlfriend. she want's to go shopping ;-).
<\sh> Nafallo: have fun :)
<elmo> infinity: uh, I thought it was ross?
<elmo> oh, no, I missed your correction
<elmo> infinity: tonight or tomorrow afternoon
<elmo> basically, next time I hit the DC
<elmo> infinity: oh, same question for amd64
<elmo> I'll install breezy on their and serial consoleize it, so we can catch it exploding into little pieces
<infinity> elmo : Two lines after I said it was ross, I corrected myself.
<elmo> yeah, 19:44 < elmo> oh, no, I missed your correction
<infinity> Wow, we can both read!
<infinity> elmo : crested is the spare amd64.
<ogra> mdz, thats something to fix in the gtk file...
<{Seb}> will there be any more updates to the ubuntu kernel in breezy?
<ogra> i'll send you an update after the weekent that updates the date/time entry
<{Seb}> also, colony 3 is very fast and stable
<ogra> weekend indeed
<{Seb}> just the latest inotify patch isn't in the current kernel IIRC
<fabbione> {Seb}: it's in the kernel we uploaded today
<fabbione> please read the changelog
<{Seb}> sorry
<{Seb}> smashing :-)
<{Seb}> also, the bluetooth in breezy kicks ass
<{Seb}> my new Nokia phone worked first time
<{Seb}> shame it can't be intergratd into the Send To in Nautilus
<ogra> mdz, do you have an option to edut the cronscript that creates the edubuntu CD to not delete the old isos? it was very odd to recognize that my only installable CD was deleted last night and only 20050817 and a very broken 20050819 were left... took me the whole day to upload my local copy of 20050818 to rookery
<ogra> s/edut/edit
<mdz> ogra: it saves 3 days, I think
<mdz> ogra: a) the daily CDs should be in working condition at this point in the release cycle, and b) if you need a stable milestone, it should be published as a milestone (like colony 3) so it doesn't disappear
<ogra> mdz, yup, but edubuntu only has two daylies left... http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/ and there was a lot broken on todays image a lot of very basic packages was rebuilt which left edubuntu-desktop uninstallable... 
<ogra> (it complained about libcairo for example)
<dabar> Does the live cd come with mp3 support, and can you install packages when using the live cd, do you guys know?
<luis_> (1) no (2) yes
<ogra> (3) thats an #ubuntu question
<luis_> (4) good point.
<ogra> :)
<dabar> (5) i knew that.
<dabar> Just like to bother you guys once in a while to make sure you are not asleep.
<dabar> on point 2, onlhy if you make space on the hard drive?
<tseng> it does into the tmpfs
<tseng> *goes
<dabar> so even with no hard drive space allocated you can install codecs for example? (last)
<carstenh> jbailey: ping
<jbailey> carstenh: pong
<dabar> ok, thanks.
<ogra> mdz, additionally the preseeding on the CD doesnt work and doesnt reflect the reality... is there any way for me to edit that ? 
<ivoks> hi all
<mdz> ogra: I don't know
<ogra> mdz, so i have to wait for Kamion it seems... :/
<_d4vid> hi all
<mdz> ogra: I don't know what to tell you.  he was available for the entire release cycle until last week
<ogra> mdz, yes
<{Seb}> will the gnome foot be replaced by the ubuntu icon by the final breezy release?
<{Seb}> on gnome-menu
<_d4vid> play Bushido - Schmetterling
<azeem> _d4vid: what a poor music taste
<mdz> jbailey: I upgraded my ltsp chroot, regenerated the initramfs, and now it doesn't boot anymore
<mdz>  /init: 1: cannot open: no such file
<mdz> modprobe usage errors
<mdz> kernel panic
<jbailey> mdz: Can you boot an old kernel so that we can look inside of it?
<mdz> jbailey: why boot an old kernel?
<jbailey> jammcq and the other gentleman had each tested 0.21 in the ltsp environment before I uploaded.
<mdz> I hadn't regenerated my initramfs in a while, so I don't know when it broke
<jbailey> mdz: Right, ltsp. =)  Just so we can get to it.
<mdz> jbailey: what do you need to see?  I can send you a copy of the initramfs if you like
<jbailey> That would work too.
<jbailey> Put it up on chinstrap?
<mdz> uploading to people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/initrd.img
<mdz> ETA <1m
<mdz> the first error is after Begin: Running /scripts/local-top\nDone.
<mdz>  /init: 1: cannot open : No such file
<mdz> then local-premount runs silently, then after it's "Done.", I get a modprobe usage error, then log-bottom and init-bottom run silently
<mdz> then run-init complains and it panics
<mdz> the version I've just uploaded is already hacked a bit to drop to a shell just before run-init so I could check things out
<mdz> the run-init error is: run-init: opening console: No such file or directory
<jbailey> Err.  That sounds like the new kernel isn't providing /dev/console automatically anymore.
<mdz> it broke before I upgraded the kernel
<mdz> I upgraded the kernel to see if that made any difference
<Arnia> Hmm... anyone else had a problem with installing gnome-devel saying it will remove ubuntu-desktop?
<Arnia> I've just moved across to Breezy so I can get some of the tools I've written ported to new versions of various packages, and when trying to set up my gnome development system I get threatened with the loss of libgl-xorg, libgl-xorg-dri, x-server-core and ubuntu-desktop
<mdz> jbailey: dropping to a shell early, I see that /root is empty
<mdz> and come to think of it, I never saw ipconfig run either
<mdz> so it's simply not mounting root
<jbailey> mdz: This is ltsp, right?  So it should be NFS?
<jbailey> BOOT is set to local in the mkinitramfs.conf
<mdz> jbailey: isn't that supposed to be automatic now?
<jbailey> No, it infers all the drivers, but doesn't try to nfs mount unless it thinks it's trying for that.
<jbailey> Is there a kernel command line variable that would tell it that it should do NFS instead?
<mdz> shouldn't it also error out if it doesn't mount root?
<jbailey> Yes, I'll have to look why it's not.
<jbailey> Ah, there's a FIXME there.
<mdz> jbailey: looks like you're missing quotes
<mdz>         if [ ! -e ${ROOT} ] ; then
<mdz> "if [ ! -e ] ; " evaluates to false
<mdz> while "if [ ! -e '' ] ;" evaluates to true
<jbailey> ah.  thanks, will fix that.
<mdz> testing with BOOT=nfs
<mdz> ok, now it's behaving as before
<jbailey> Cool.
<mdz> I'm trying to narrow down 12942
<mdz> which is a blocker for ltsp
<jbailey> Do I just need to tweak the timeout to be longer?
<jbailey> Just on the assumption that it's not like it has anything better to do if it times out.
<mdz> jbailey: I see no evidence of this having anything to do with nfsmount
<mdz> it's the kernel which is timing out
<mdz> and it retries, and still never works
<jbailey> Ah.
<mdz> but for extra extra fun, the new kernel BREAKS UNIONFS FABBIONE
<mdz> this means that anyone who is following my colony 3 based LTSP testing instructions gets a non-working system
<mdz> jbailey: adding a 'sleep 5' before nfsmount seems to alleviate the issue
<mdz> jbailey: (issue = 12942)
<mdz> it's some sort of race
<jbailey> 'kay.  Is a 5 second sleep going to be too annoying, or should I only do that if nfsmount fails and then retry?
<doko> mdz: still on my list for tomorrow
<doko> elmo, mdz: will upload both png packages built with 4.0. I couldn't reproduce these with the current 4.0 anymore
<mdz> doko: I'm doing a test build with ttf-opensymbol enabled, and will upload it if it works
<elmo> doko: any chance grub will work, or are we screwed?
<doko> grub: yes, upstream has fixes, but I did fear the merge ...
<mdz> elmo: no netcat on jackass?
<elmo> mdz: wha for?
<mdz> elmo: to copy stuff from the morgue to rookery
<elmo> eh
<elmo> rsync jackass:: on the lan
<mdz> elmo: why is it that morgue.ubuntu.com seems to end at 2005-04-22?
<elmo> I stopped morgue syncing because it would run rookery out of sapce
<mdz> ah
<elmo> I don't know whether to only sync source or what
<elmo> or only source for anything older than a month or something
<doko> mdz: isn't ttf-opensymbol be built by OO.o2 as well? I can look at it tomorrow.
<mdz> doko: no, it's disabled in the oo.o2 build
<mdz> I have a test build running on concordia with it enabled; if it works, I'll upload
<mdz> then it will supersede the oo.o one
<doko> ok
#ubuntu-devel 2005-08-25
<jdub> jbailey: like, building the first basic cpio archive with tools (busybox and klibc, etc.) on the buildd, and then doing the module cpio archive on the client
* jbailey digs through the logs to remember what jdub is responding to. =)
<jbailey> w00t /lastlog
<jbailey> jdub: No.
<jbailey> jdub: Fabio pointed out that it makes the story complicated for people who do home-built kernels if we're not careful about it.
<jdub> jbailey: hrm, extra option on make-kpkg?
<jdub> gotta run away to the country :-)
<jdub> ciao!
<lu|brb> slacker ;)
<jbailey> jdub: 'bye. =)
<jdub> it's pretty rad how i can hibernate windows on my desktop :-)
<Keybuk> people who build their own kernels worryme
<Keybuk> it was normal 10 years ago, but not today
<maswan> well, it would be fun if the distribution kernel supported everything you needed. last time I checked at work, we were 2-3 things away from that though. :/
<maswan> (we do have the policy of distribution kernel where available, for easier secuirty updates though)
<torkel> maswan: I'm afraid we will never be able to run dist kernels everywhere...
<maswan> torkel: yeah, I know
<torkel> maswan: at least not until ClusterFs changes their mind :-(
<tseng> evening sabdfl 
<sabdfl> hey tseng
* sabdfl 's fingers hurt from launchpad hacking
<mdz> [2] +  Stopped                 tail -f log
<mdz> (breezy-i386)mdz@concordia:~ $ fg
<mdz> tail -f log
<mdz> tail: cannot read realtime clock: Invalid argument
<mdz> elmo: is that normal?
<elmo> I dunno, amd64 has traditionally had troubles with the RTC
<elmo> but I've never seen userland things like tail try to use it before
<Keybuk> ok, the world has officially gone mad
<Keybuk> someone stop it, I want to get off
<Keybuk> this tin of tuna has written on it (and I'm not kidding); Allergy warning: CONTAINS FISH
<elmo> dude, if daisyduke can think it's chicken...
<opi> is Evolution broken for Breezy?
<Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/tmp/contains-fish.jpg
<opi> Keybuk, can be dangerus
<Keybuk> IT'S A TIN OF TUNA!  OF COURSE IT CONTAINS FISH!
<opi> Keybuk, well, maybe it's cat food? Cat food can contain tuna, but it's not a fish ;)
<Keybuk> at least it doesn't say "May Contain Dolphin"
<Nafallo> LOL
<opi> Keybuk, it's missing the ,,Please, save the animals'' and ,,Don't eat me!'' tags, too
<mdz> jbailey: so I've run into a situation where I need to be able to conditionalize the loading of a module in initramfs
<mdz> jbailey: currently I just list the module in a modules.d file and everything is cool
<mdz> jbailey: but I need to be able to either a) disable its inclusion in the initramfs at initramfs-build-time, or b) disable its loading at runtime
<jbailey> mdz: You can do either.  Hooks are at buildtime and runtime.  Basically, they're shell scripts that have access to all of the functions that the main scripts do.
<jbailey> mdz: If you look in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks,  you'll find the build time hooks that get called.
<jbailey> Otherwise, you can also just drop a script in to the right directory in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/ to get it called at the right time.
<mdz> jbailey: if I understand correctly, being listed in modules.d means both inclusion in the ramfs and being loaded at runtime, so I don't think I have a choice
<jbailey> mdz: You can put a thing in the hook script to "manual_add_modules FOO" to cause it to be included in the initramfs, and then modprobe the module in a runtime script
<jbailey> force_load FOO causes it to be included and always loaded as if it were in modules.d
<mdz> jbailey: thanks
<mdz> jbailey: force_load didn't work for me
<mdz> jbailey: it was not even copied into the initramfs
<mdz> it certainly looks like it should though
<segfault> sorry for the OT, but who is responsible for setting up mailing lists?
<mdz> segfault: setting them up, or deciding whether they are appropriate?
<segfault> well, both. i'd like to know if its possible to create a list for translations discussion, ubuntu-l10n-pt-br
<mdz> segfault: community council
<segfault> ok, i'll add to the agenda of the next meeting
<segfault> is there any plan to include reiser4 support in the default kernel? or just when it gets into the vanilla kernel?
<mdz> jbailey: it does get added to conf/modules, but the .ko isn't included in the fs
<mdz> segfault: kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com
<mdz> aha
<mdz> force_load()
<mdz> {
<mdz>                 manual_add_modules ${module}
<mdz>                 echo ${@} >>${DESTDIR}/conf/modules
<mdz> }
<mdz> jbailey: ${module} should be $1
<mdz> that certainly took a long time to spot
<jbailey> Hmm.  But then parameters to the module won't get included.
<jbailey> I'm guessing that in the bit that loads them on I need to remember to filter the extra bits at that time.
<womble> Does anyone else skim the thread subjects for "Colony CD 3" and get mental audio of Cartman singing "Swiss Colony Beef Log"?
<mdz> jbailey: parameters?
<mdz> jbailey: you told me to invoke force_load FOO, but that causes manual_add_modules to be invoked without arguments
<Keybuk> womble: no.
<Keybuk> ;)
<jbailey> mdz: Right, Shouldn't answer questions while I'm on the phone.  =)  The idea is that you could say something like "3c509 io=0x280" and have it pass the parameter to the module.
<jbailey> But I see what you mean.  manual_add_modules needs the ${1}
<jbailey> I thought you mean on the echo line instead of the ${@}
<elmo> hmm, anyone know off hand how to say either sort by or grep by line length without resorting to python/perl?
<segfault> | wc -l | sort -n?
<carstenh> echo -e "foo\nbarfoo" | egrep '^.{3}$'
<carstenh> skip the $ if you want all lines with at a length of at least n 
<elmo> carstenh: aha, thanks, good idea
<elmo> segfault: wc would also have worked too, tnx
<wasabi> Is there a general tutorial on programming pygtk? For instance, I am curious about actual project layout... not just how to code.
<womble> wasabi: Different people will probably have wildly different ideas about how to structure their PyGTK projects.
<womble> One of the benefits of OSS -- you get to look at lots of real-world examples to hone your own style.  <grin>
<jp> congrats dudes, breezy is rocking a lot! thanks :)
<seth_k> Treenaks, you about?
<seth_k> Treenaks, if you see this, your PyBlosxom murdered Planet Ubuntu's RSS feeds. If you'll take a look, you'll notice that your DC:Creator is being returned as  Martijn van de Streek <martijn@foodfight.org>  and the carets are breaking the RSS feeds. Thanks!
<wasabi> What would be the proper way to return the system's dist (hoary, breezy, etc) from the command line?
<elmo> /etc/lsbsomething
<wasabi> ahh yes
<wasabi> lsb_release or something
<thoreauputic> lsb_release -a (for all info)
<Treenaks> seth_k: ok, thnx
<thoreauputic> as a command
<seth_k> cheers Treenaks
<seth_k> good to see you on Planet now btw :)
<Treenaks> 1/q seth_k 
<Treenaks> uh
<Treenaks> seth_k: see pm :)
<seth_k> apologies Treenaks if you had a question, I got disconnected. Did you want to ask something?
<rob^> is gnome-app-install prefered over synaptic in breezy?
<Treenaks> rob^: depends on what you want to do :)
<rob^> write about installing applications in Yelp
<Treenaks> ask the docteam then :)
<rob^> I am the lead author of the faq guide
<rob^> thats odd, I did a search for ssh in gnome-app-install for "ssh" and it turned up nothing
<Treenaks> rob^: gnome-app-install doesn't contain everything
<rob^> yeah.. hmm
<elmo> CRITICAL - 580 processes running 
<elmo> GOOD MORNING FABBIONE
<fabbione> ahha
<fabbione> morning elmo :)
<fabbione> i am only at -j150
<fabbione> it can't be only me
<fabbione> elmo: did you tell Karl not to worry about these general warnings? ;)
<fabbione> i didn't expect you to be up at this time of the day
<fabbione> mdz: wake up dude?
<wasabi> Pygtk folks: I am trying to take some binary data and turn it into a pixbuf or something suitable for putting in a GtkImage widget.
<wasabi> I know the mime type only.
<mdz> fabbione: yes?
<fabbione> mdz: i think i have a fix for unionfs.. i am building a test kernel for you
<fabbione> if that works, you can blame unionfs upstream...
<fabbione> what i see is that unionfs_delete_inode doesn't lock the kernel like all the others 2983 FS do
<fabbione> and it doesn't trunkate the inode before such operation
<fabbione> that might lead to a race in certain operations
<fabbione> = oops
<fabbione> i can't be 100% sure.. but we can give it a shot
<fabbione> mdz: what falvour do you need to test?
<fabbione> so i can probably speed up the build
<fabbione> (i need to go away anyhow)
<mdz> fabbione: I've implemented a workaround in ltsp
<mdz> to avoid using unionfs at all
<fabbione> mdz: meh.. i would still like to see if the fix work
<mdz> fabbione: but nonetheless, this works 100% in 2.6.12-6.10, and 0% in 2.6.12-7.11
<fabbione> mdz: yes i got that from the bug report..
<mdz> I didn't see any changes which looked relevant, but it is difficult to see which actual files in the kernel tree change from one revision to another
<mdz> do you have some tools which do this?
<mdz> it is especially hard when 400k lines of diff are uploaded in one revision
<fabbione> mdz: compare the 2 linux-tree ?
<fabbione> mdz: i would have uploaded early and with less changes, but we had colony 3 in the way
<mdz> fabbione: apply the patches in both places and diff -ru?
<mdz> I suppose that works
<fabbione> mdz: the 2 linux-tree have already the patches applied...
<fabbione> so you just need to rediff it
<mdz> oh, they do?  I thought they weren't applied until the build
<fabbione> linux-tree is already patched iirc.. 
<fabbione> it's in the description
<fabbione> + we ship the patch on top of upstream
<fabbione> Package: linux-source-2.6.12
<fabbione> Description: Linux kernel source for version 2.6.12 with Ubuntu patches
<mdz> fabbione: BenC was able to reproduce this on different hardware, by the way, I don't think it's related to acpi or otherwise hardware related
<mdz> fabbione: that is the description for the binary package; are the patches applied in the source package as well?
<fabbione> mdz: ok.. if you can tell me what flavour you need, i can give you a module to test right now
<mdz> 386
<fabbione> mdz: apt-get source linux-source-2.6.12 -> patches are in debian/patches
<mdz> ltsp only uses generic kernels
<fabbione> apt-get install linux-source-2.6.12 patches are applied
<mdz> fabbione: right, apt-get install linux-source-2.6.12 gets you the current version only
<mdz> which doesn't help to diff between two versions
<mdz> but if there is a rules target to apply all the patches, I can use that
<fabbione> fabbione@concordia:~/deve/linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.12/debian/build/build-386/fs/unionfs/unionfs.ko 
<fabbione> mdz: grab that one and tell me if it works
<fabbione> mdz: use the morgue to get the old version.. 
<fabbione> or get it from baz..
<fabbione> but than you will need to build it
<fabbione> or use the target monolith in the source
<mdz> why would I want to build it?
<fabbione> apt-get source...
<mdz> I just want to diff the source
<fabbione> ./debian/rules monolith
<mdz> isn't there a debian/rules target to apply all patches?
<fabbione> and than diff
<fabbione> yes
<fabbione> i am just writing it to you
<fabbione> the above
<mdz> apply all patches = "monolith"??
<fabbione> make the monolith in the old and new
<mdz> how about "patch"
<fabbione> monolith does something more...
<fabbione> mdz: there is also patch, but please use monolith
<fabbione> if you want to get extraheadakes use patch
<fabbione> up to you..
<mdz> ok, so you do have a target called patch, but it doesn't work right?
<mdz> or what?
<fabbione> mdz: i don't recall all the details right now. there is some extra stuff done by monolith
<fabbione> it's ages i don't touch that stuff
<fabbione> or even look at it
<mdz> fabbione: were you able to reproduce the unionfs bug?
<fabbione> no because i woke up 2 hours ago...
<fabbione> and it's saturday morning.. and i absolutely need to go and take a break for we
<mdz> yes, it's nearly midnight on friday here
<mdz> the module from concordia breaks in exactly the same way as the old one
<fabbione> ok..
<mdz> but it's ok, forget it
<mdz> I have a contingency plan
<mdz> I am ditching unionfs
<fabbione> ok..
<fabbione> even better...
<mdz> we obviously can't rely on it
<fabbione> it's too fragile
<fabbione> it didn't even compile for a long while on ppc
<fabbione> anyway.. i am off... have a good weekend guys
<mdz> bye
<mdz> infinity: did you see the oo.o2 failure already?
<mdz> infinity: seems like it might be something similar to the cairo fixes you're making
<pef> hello
<infinity> mdz : Will look into it.
<mdz> infinity: short version:   mozilla-dev: Depends: mozilla-browser (= 2:1.7.11-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
<infinity> Alright, easy enough to hunt down.
<infinity> There are still ~100 packages depending on libcairo1, so I expect some archive weirdness while I sort out the build failures and finish seb's transition.
<infinity> No big deal.
<\sh> infinity: send me a list with packages MOTUs could work on...
<\sh> infinity: will deal with it a little bit later..need to go to office...the pope and his energy is erasing our dtv smartcards *grmpf*
<infinity> \sh : apt-cache rdepends libcairo1, and see if it's in section universe/* ? :)
<\sh> infinity: yeah...I'm just lazy ,-)
<infinity> \sh : Most of it just needs to be retries on the buildds in the right order though, so probably not muhc for you to help with unless you see obvious breakage (like what I just fixed with firefox and oregano)
<infinity> s/retries/retried/
<\sh> infinity: k...will deal with it when I'm back home...It's 7:17 UTC and office called me 6:00 UTC... that'll be a bad day
<Treenaks> I see lots of black "flicker" in firefox (since the cairo update I think)
<infinity> Treenaks : firefox hasn't been updated for the new cairo yet.  Wait for it to build, installe the new one, then complain if it still sucks. :)
<\sh> ok...gentlemen see u later
<Treenaks> infinity: ok :)
<infinity> (But yes, I've noticed newly-started windows seem to start out as big black rectangles, etc.. Though only with mozilla-based apps, in my case thuderbird and firefox)
<infinity> I'm waiting for the transition to be done before I pass a verdict on that, though.
<Treenaks> EEK.. that usplash ubuntu-logo.. on my 1024x768 laptop.. stretched.. without antialiasing
<Treenaks> *shudder*
<infinity> mjg59's already admitted to not being much of an artist. :)
<infinity> I'm sure AndyFitz will provide us with something prettier in fairly short order, but it's more important to get the technical side hammered out first (so we know if we can even ship the feature)
<Treenaks> infinity: oh sure..
<Treenaks> infinity: but the scaling is the problem here :)
<Treenaks> infinity: siliconmotion = sucky hardware :)
<highvoltage> Treenaks: the resolulution is 640x480 at that stage.
<infinity> highvoltage : Yes, but the laptop isn't.
<infinity> At any rate, a slightly less ugly logo will help a bit, but stretching laptop displays pretty much always looks crap.
* infinity writes to Santa, asking for more bandwidth for Christmas.
* infinity also writes to mdz, asking for that apt-get source mix-n-match feature.
<mdz> infinity: you could script that a lot sooner than waiting for me to add it to apt
<infinity> Yeah, it generally involves a Ctrl-C, followed by expletives, followed by downloading a previous version of the source so I have an orig.tar.gz, then the current again.
<infinity> It's the Ctrl-C and swearing bit I'd like to avoid.
<mdz> scripts usually don't swear ;-)
<wasabi> Apple has it figured out.
<infinity> You haven't read any of mine..
<wasabi> They don't boot with a logo.
<wasabi> They boot with the simpliest two tone animation they can.
<wasabi> We should boot with nothing but a small spinning Ubuntu logo haha
<mdz> the ubuntu logo doesn't spin
<infinity> We could boot with a compuer with a happy face on the monitor.  No one's ever done THAT before.
<wasabi> haha
<mdz> my apple booted with a logo the last time I checked
<infinity> And when the boot fails, switch it to a sad face, with NO OTHER EXPLANATION.
<infinity> That would rock.
<wasabi> mdz, os x. It's just a small spinning graphic.
<mdz> wasabi: not the version I have
<wasabi> ?
<mdz> it's a grayscale logo in the center of the screen
<wasabi> me grabs iboko
<wasabi> oh. i dont even have os x. doh.
<highvoltage> wasabi: i took away my bootsplash by just appending vga=791 to my kernel line :)
<Mithrandir> infinity: we could play a sound as well
<infinity> Mithrandir : Now you're talking.
<infinity> Maybe some sort of distinctive chord, played through the internal speaker.
<Mithrandir> yeah
<infinity> It'll be revolutionary.
<Mithrandir> that'll sound _great_ on boomboxes like the x86-es.
<Mithrandir> getting to .ca is cheap, it appears.
<infinity> Not for me. :/
<infinity> Getting anywhere from .au isn't cheap though.
<Mithrandir> that's because .au is on the wrong side of the planet. :-)
<robitaille> getting from one side of .ca to the other side is not that cheap... 
<Mithrandir> getting from .no to .ca is ~4kNOK which is about 500EUR.
<robitaille> my sister just did it (.ca to .ca), and she paid the equivalent of 450EUR.  
<robitaille> but I could get free hotel my parent place...
* robitaille wonders how to announce to the family that he could be town for a few days, but will barely have time to see them because of a love-day, and a bunch of BOFs sessions...
<Mithrandir> just tell them that you're at a developer gathering which takes up all the time?
<wasabi> grrr.
<wasabi> evms seg faulting. =(
<infinity> Who is doing all the liblaunchpadintegration stuff?
<Mithrandir> infinity: I think it's a mvo/jamesh/seb128 thing
<Mithrandir> at least, they were talking about it on -meeting 20 hours ago
<infinity> Right, well, it's broken.  I'll poke someone.
<Treenaks> ooh! pokeage
<Treenaks> infinity: I have the new firefox, and it still does the black areas thing
<n> I've just tried the latest opensuse beta and I'm very impressed with its 'Suspend to disk' shutdown/boot feature which has halved my boot time. Will breezy implement this too?
<wasabi> oh noes.
<wasabi> i think evms may have clobbered my data.
<wasabi> this is not good. *panic*
<Nermal> any ideas if gaim 1.5.0 will be added to breezy before release ?
<Nermal> or is there a package freeze in effect yet ?>
* Nermal reads topic
<mez_> elmo, ping
<teprrr> so hmm, what's this stuff about libxcursor-dev doesn't include libXcursor.la file anymore? how should I be able to compile stuff now?
<d> I'm currently running Kubuntu Hoary w/ KDE 3.4.2. If I upgrade the kernel, will a 'Suspend to disk' option appear under the KDE shutdown menu? What kernel version do I need?
<infinity> teprrr : You don't need .la files to compile anything..
<Alex> Evenin'
<ogra> infinity, could you have a look if my schoolbell/tool uploads ended up in the queue ? i seem to have wrongly assumed that jinty (schoolbell/tool maintainer) is whitelisted...
<_d4vid> re all
<_d4vid> play Sonny Black und Saad - fickdeinemutterslang
<tseng> please turn that off.
<infinity> ogra : Erm, which queue would that be?
<ogra> infinity, upload ? 
<ogra> pitti, hey
<infinity> ogra : If it's not on -changes, I can't see it.  (ie: anything in queue/new is out of my jurisdiction)
<pitti> Moin
<ogra> infinity, oh, ok
<ogra> infinity, thanks then
<infinity> Yo pitti.
<ogra> pitti, new schooltool/bell have no more debian dirs in orig.tar.gz :)
<pitti> infinity: saw your uploads, will do them now. THanks a lot
<infinity> pitti : NP.  Just needed to find a spare moment to do them.  Sorry for the delay. :/
<pitti> (quit
<theantix> heh
<Mitario> hi everyone
<bur[n] er> hola
* Mitario wonders if there's a bazaar plugin available for eclipse
* bur[n] er shrugs
<infinity> seb128 : Want to look at totem's build failure and fix it?... Looks related to liblaunchpadintegration.
<seb128> yeah, I've that on my list?
<seb128> s/?/!/
<seb128> infinity: have you planned to kick the libcairo stuff that stopped on pixman issue?
<seb128> should I give you a list ?
<infinity> seb128 : What is/was the issue?
<seb128> cairo used to depends on libpixman
<infinity> seb128 : And I can keep throwing stuff back over and over again, but it'd be nice if you told me it was going to work this time. :)
<seb128> and now they have a copy of it (for stability reason, they don't want to expose cairo to pixman changes)
<infinity> Ew.
<seb128> so libcairo.la dropped the reference to libpixman
<seb128> but a lot of other .la got the reference to it before
<infinity> (.la files are evil)
<seb128> since cairo doesn't grab libpixman
<seb128> the builds break on the .la
<infinity> But, uhm.  Dude.  Ew.  We're supposed to try to rid the world of statically bundled libraries, not introduce more.
<seb128> with the eel2/nautilus/... list I give you that's fine now
<seb128> we just need to push a rebuild for everything that had this issue
<infinity> Well, I gave everything back after eel2/nautilus, so anything that's failed again is failed for all new issues...
<seb128> weird
<seb128> the daily build log pages has very few try for i386
<infinity> I'll give it one more try.
<infinity> My list may also be incomplete.
<seb128> file-roller as an example
<seb128> no retry since the 18th
<seb128> and we fixed that yesterday, the 19th
<seb128> I've a list of such example if you want ...
<infinity> Yeahp, no file-roller in my list.  I rule.
<infinity> If you have a complete list, by all means give it to me. :)
<seb128> not really, I've a list of main packagew where binary_version != source_version
<infinity> That list is about 500 source packages long.
<infinity> (300 and something on i386, I guess)
<seb128> clearlooks epiphany-browser evolution-exchange file-roller gconf-editor gnome-media gnome-netstatus gnome-panel gnome-pilot gnome-python gnome-python-extras gnome-system-tools gnopernicus gst-plugins0.8 nautilus-sendto
<infinity> And not much help. :)
<seb128> you can kick that
<infinity> Alright, I added that to list of stuff I punted a few minutes ago.
<infinity> We'll see what build after the next cron.daily.
<infinity> s/build/builds/
<jay> I'm trying to use the netboot images and I've tried 8/17, 8/18, 8/19, and current, but they all seem to fail in the same way though Colony 3 didn't.  Are any of these equivalent to Colony 3?
<infinity> seb128 : Oh, want to look at oregano, too?  Looks like it's dying on cairo API breakage.
<seb128> infinity: vte rhythmbox control-center gthumb gaim metacity vim 
<seb128> these still depends on cairo1 too, probably to kick
<infinity> seb128 : file-roller built.  Looks good.
<seb128> rock
<seb128> infinity: I'll have a look on cairo, I've noticed it ... but totem first :)
<infinity> s/cairo/oregano/
<infinity> I assume.
<seb128> correct
<seb128> totem builds fine here and on concordia
* seb128 wonders why it's not happy with launchpad-integration on the buildds
<eruin> /usr/X11R6/bin/fglrxconfig
<eruin> /usr/X11R6/bin/fglrxinfo
<eruin> should I file a bug against this? seems wrong to have bin files nowhere near the path
<infinity> seb128 : Using the same versions of all the build-deps (and clean chroots)?
<infinity> seb128 : Looks like a missing -llaunchpadintegration somewhere to me.
<seb128> infinity: no, I'm trying the chroot now. But the package a configure.ac change and a autoconf update ...
<mdz> jay: netboot images won't ever be equivalent to CD images, because they're incomplete
<mdz> jay: they will rely on the current state of the mirror at the time you install them
<jay> mdz: should a bug be reported on it or is it currently a WIP still?
<mdz> jay: it hasn't really seen any testing from our side; it depends on what the failure is
<mdz> if it's just uninstallable packages, that's normal
<jay> mdz:  a message box comes up (when the partitioner is about to start) that says:    ???   ????  <go back> <continue>  and it just infinite loops
<seb128> ./configure: line 19903: PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG: command not found
<seb128> hum
<mdz> jay: that's deserving of a bug report, but be sure it isn't already reported
<mdz> seb128: aclocal && autoconf?
<jay> mdz: alright i'll check again to make sure.  thanks
<seb128> mdz: no sure if that's normal, that happens on the totem build log but doesn't stop anything
<Mithrandir> seb128: uhm, it doesn't stop anything?  It surely should?
<ogra> mdz, could you move gnuchess and libassetml1 to main, they are approved in the main inclusion queue and would avoid the constant gcompris spam in the buildlogs
<mdz> ogra: gcompris spam in buildlogs?
<seb128> ./configure: line 19903: PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG: command not found
<seb128> checking for pkg-config... /usr/bin/pkg-config
<seb128> ...
<seb128> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/totem/1.1.4-0ubuntu2/totem_1.1.4-0ubuntu2_20050820-0952-i386-failed.gz
<ogra> mdz, yes... http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/
<ogra> gcompris cat build without gnuchess... but gets retried every 30 min it seems
<wasabi> =( I think evms just friend my 500GBs of movies.
<wasabi> fried
<mdz> oh, in the gcompris build logs :-)
<ogra> cant even
<Mithrandir> seb128: uhm, there's something funky in how that configure was created.
<seb128> Mithrandir: why ?
<mdz> ogra: gnuchess is not in http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt
<Mithrandir> seb128: because it's an unexpanded macro
<mdz> ogra: gcompris does not build-depend on it
<Mithrandir> seb128: from pkg.m4:
<Mithrandir> AC_DEFUN([PKG_CHECK_EXISTS] ,
<Mithrandir> [AC_REQUIRE([PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG] )dnl
<Mithrandir> but for some reason, PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG wasn't expanded.
<mdz> ogra: unless you changed that just today
<mdz> jammcq: hey
<ogra> mdz, err, nope.. it depends on it, but doesnt build depend...
<seb128> Mithrandir: what is charged to expand it?
<Mithrandir> seb128: it's missing from aclocal.m4
<mdz> ogra: what depends on it?
<ogra> gcompris 
<ogra> afaik...
<Mithrandir> seb128: but gets added if I run aclocal-1.7 by hand
<mdz> mizar:[/etc/gdm]  apt-cache show gcompris | grep gnuchess
<mdz> zsh: done       noglob apt-cache show gcompris |
<mdz> ogra: it looks like someone uploaded a new version with a new build-dep on gnuchess
<mdz> since the last germinate
<ogra> mdz, thats very strange
<ogra> seb128, that was your upload i assume then
<mdz> does it have some evil automatic modification of control?
<ogra> hmm, it shouldnt... no control.in afaik... lest me pull the source
<mdz> the source is huge
<ogra> yup
<ogra> mdz, i'm getting used to huge sources with edubuntu ... see nvu :/
<jammcq> mdz: ho
<seb128> ogra: what my upload, of what?
<seb128> ogra: the cairo upload are "no changes upload"
<ogra> seb128, gcompris rebuild for cairo....
<seb128> that's just "apt-get source .. dch"
<ogra> strange
<ogra> i'll look at the source and fix whats necessary...
<\sh> this is not my day
<\sh> 4 hours in the morning, now 4 hours in the evening...I didn't get any sleep..but work for the company
<infinity> mdz : Once the last libgl1-xorg deps are dead in main (which should be true in a cron.daily or two), I assume I have a green light to fix {ed,k,}ubuntu-meta? (-desktop depends on libgl1-xorg)
<mdz> ogra: gcompris is scheduled for demotion to universe
<mdz> according to anastacia
<infinity> mdz : Uploads are signed and queued, just waiting untul the new X builds, which kills libgl1-xorg from the x-window-system-core metapackage (which -desktop also depends on)
<ogra> mdz, why ? 
<ogra> mdz, it was approve already
<mdz> ogra: packages only go in main when they are seeded, or a dependency of a seeded package
<mdz> (do I need to add that to /topic?)
<mdz> infinity: wtf is that doing in a seed?
<infinity> mdz : Send it out in a "tips for new employees" brochure when people sign on.
<mdz> infinity: oh, indirectly through the metapackage
<ogra> mdz, ah... i commented it to have edubuntu-desktop installable again... until all other deps are approved too
<ogra> (which is done)
<mdz> ogra: don't do that
<ogra> mdz, Kamion told me so... sorry
<infinity> mdz : Actually, I have NO idea why it's ALSO depended on by the -desktop metapackages, since the metapackages depend on x-window-system-core, which in turn depends on GL.  Hrm.  I could/should just kill the dep completely, rather than switching it.
<mdz> infinity: the metapackages are generated straight from the seeds, so if there's a direct dep (and it wasn't hand hacked), someone seeded it
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/components/libgfx_gtk.so: undefined symbol: pango_xft_get_font_map
<\sh> nice
<mdz> ./desktop: * libgl1-xorg # depended upon by libgl1-xorg-dri, but lsb dep on virtual libgl1 makes it ordering-dependent
<infinity> mdz : Looks like a longstanding thing.  I see in the changelog where the xlibmesa-gl dep was switched to libgl1-xorg.  Weird.
<mdz> infinity: so it's a workaround for lsb confusing germinate
<infinity> mdz : lsb depends on libgl1-mesa | libgl1 ... (well, it does now, used to be libgl1-xorg | libgl1)
<mdz> oh
<infinity> mdz : Either way, doesn't germinate prefer the first alternate, and go with that?
<mdz> then we can remove that
<mdz> infinity: yes, but lsb used to depend on "libgl1"
<infinity> Ahh.  Well, fixed now.
<mdz> infinity: let's wait for the dust to settle before changing the seed, but I think we can remove that
<infinity> Kay, but I will need to change the metpackages by hand, then, or people will have conflicting packaging on their hands.
<infinity> (Which I was prepared to do anyway, I didn't realise they were automated via the seeds)
<infinity> In retrospect, I suppose that should have been obvious.
<mdz> ogra: ah, I see, the dep isn't new; it was just broken when gcompris was moved to main, and by removing it from the seed, you caused germinate to ignore its deps, so they never showed up for promotion to main
<ogra> mdz, ok... i'll re add it to the desktop seed....
<mdz> infinity: apt-get source ubuntu-meta && cd ... && ./update && build
<mdz> ogra: _all_ of its deps have approved reports now?
<ogra> mdz, yup
<ogra> mdz, i'm only missin 3 server reports and have two packages that need work, then edubuntu is sorted
<infinity> mdz : Slick.  But if you're saying I should keep the change out of the seeds for now, I assume I should just hand-hack desktop-* for now, then ./update in a later upload after the dust has indeed settled and the seeds have been shuffled?
<mdz> infinity: no, go ahead and change the seed, but change the package name rather than removing it entirely for now
<infinity> mdz : Ahh, check.  Consider it done.
<mdz> infinity: you need to wait up to 10 minutes or so for the seeds to be refreshed at ~cjwatson before running update
<mdz> which is really a bug which should be fixed
<mdz> but pretty much everything which looks at the seed does that
<mdz> s/seed/seeds/
<infinity> Fair nuff.  I'm waiting on some builds anyway, so it's no big deal.
<\sh> infinity: make that firefox works again ;)
<ogra> ARGH
<ogra> arch_run_editor: please set $EDITOR
<ogra> i hate baz for not falling back to a default $EDITOR
<ogra> GRR
<mdz> ogra: don't forget to merge ubuntu->edubuntu seeds from time to time
<mdz> I have been doing it for you
<ogra> mdz, i just did that 5 mins ago before the commit... hopefully they dont clash now
<mdz> I just removed a package from supported
<mdz> every time we do that, we need to merge or it doesn't take effect
<ogra> yup, Kamion explained that to me... sorry for being so slow in understanding the anactacia stuff
<ogra> but i thin i got it now
<ogra> think even
<mdz> I have tried to add some documentation as we go
<mdz> hopefully the procedure on maininclusionqueue is clear now
<ogra> and i finally convinced edubuntu-server to be on the CD.... :)
<mdz> we should document the metapackage stuff somewhere
<mdz> Mithrandir: where is your unionfs casper branch again?
<Mithrandir> mdz: tollef.fog.heen@canonical.com/casper--unionfs--0
<infinity> ogra : You may want to sync your seeds again, then.
<mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
<mdz> Mithrandir: I've made a breezy branch and merged that into mainline, thanks
<mdz> (that = your unionfs branch)
<ogra> infinity, thanks
<Mithrandir> mdz: I thought unionfs was breezy+1?
<Mithrandir> mdz: since it didn't make FF
<mdz> Mithrandir: right.  I've created a breezy branch, and I've merged your changes onto mainline (not the breezy branch)
<Mithrandir> mdz: ah, then I understand. :-)
<infinity> mdz : Now that xorg's libraries have all been fully modularised, would it not be a good idea to stop explicitly seeding them all, and let germinate just do its job figuring out what we actually need?
<mdz> infinity: them all?  are we doing that for something other than libgl?
<elmo> we shouldn't seed any libraries IMO
<infinity> mdz : I just noticed that supported pretty much has everything that used to be generated from xorg source explicitly seeded.
<mdz> elmo: we only do it where germinate does the wrong thing and it's hard to fix
<mdz> infinity: oh, you mean the -dev/-dbg packages
<infinity> Including some stuff we don't actually ship anymore.
<mdz> right, I've been clearing that stuff out as I notice it, but we need to do a thorough audit for stuff which is only in main due to a -dev package in supported
<elmo> archive not registered: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<elmo> how the christing bananas did baz lose that?
<infinity> mdz : Yeah, a mess of dev stuff, it looks like.  Isn't germinate supposed to DTRT with build-deps for dev packages?
<mjg59> mdz: Can we shift toshset to main in the near future?
<mdz> infinity: it does.  however, we found that in the end we had a whole bunch of -dev packages ending up in extra because we were using one binary from the source and not others
<mdz> mjg59: wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionQueue
<mdz> er
<mdz> UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
<ogra> err, the packagenamed in the seeds are source packages, right ? has someone a suggestion why i am told that gartoon isnt available ... ? its definately there...
<ogra> packagenames indeed
<mjg59> elmo: Can you sync toshset from unstable?
<infinity> ogra : No, seeds are binary packages.
<ogra> eeek... ok
<ogra> i'm silly, ignore me... *sigh*
<infinity> (I expected them to be a mix of source/binary, like Packages-arch-specific when I first looked at them, and was disappointed to find out they weren't)
<ogra> indeed its logical to have the binary names in there, since you might not want all binarys from one source in main....
<infinity> Right, but since you may also want the complete source, a P-a-s style %source notation would be nice.
<infinity> Oh well.
<tseng> that would avoid things like changing binary package names around and having things suddenly demoted to universe
<tseng> leaving stupid people like me fairly confused
<infinity> It would also cover the "we want all the -dbg/-dev package for libfoo installed" case, without naming them all.
<infinity> But it's a put up or shut up thing, I'm sure, and I haven't even looked at germinates code yet.
<infinity> s/germinates/germinate's/
<leonel> so ... to upgrade from hoary new install  to breezy  just  apt-get dist-upgrade ?   
<mdz> leonel: #ubuntu, please
* leonel kicks himself to #ubuntu
<mdz> Mithrandir: what's the difference between pkgconfig and pkg-config?
<infinity> elmo : Is jackass still running on only one CPU?
<infinity> mdz : Gratuitous renaming.  The latter is the canonical name, I believe.
<infinity> At least, I think that's the direction I renamed the CVS module...
* infinity tries to remember.
<mdz> ogra: schoolbell has an inclusion report but is not seeded
<ogra> mdz, its only a dependency from schooltool which is pending, since sadfl requested a new upstream version first... i told pitti to wait until thats in (got the new source today from jinty and uploaded)
<ogra> mdz, we only need libschoolbell...
<ogra> s/from/of
<mdz> ogra: I've promoted everything which was approved and in anastacia
<ogra> mdz, thanks a lot :)
<mdz> but there are several extraneous reports for packages which are not seeded
<ogra> from edubuntu ? 
<mdz> yes, mostly
<mdz> scons ftgl blender kio-apt xaos gnuchess libassetm1 schoolbell
<ogra> they are in the package i just upload
<ogra> i uncommented evrything now... 
<mdz> package?
<ogra> execpt nvu
<ogra>    * Added gcompris to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64, desktop-powerpc
<ogra>    * Added tuxpaint to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64, desktop-powerpc
<ogra>    * Added blender to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64, desktop-powerpc
<ogra>    * Added gnome-icon-theme-gartoon to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64,
<ogra>      desktop-powerpc
<ogra>    * Added tuxmath to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64, desktop-powerpc
<mdz> ogra: I don't understand.  did you add those by hand?
<ogra>    * Added xaos to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64, desktop-powerpc
<mdz> blender is in universe
<mdz> tuxpaint is in universe
<mdz> xaos is in universe
<mdz> the update script doesn't add packages which are not in main.  how did you do this?
<ogra> they are in the seeds
<mdz> please tell me what you did
<ogra> i had uncommented them temporarily
<mdz> in edubuntu-meta
<ogra> i ran the update script after updating the seeds
<mdz> ARGH
<mdz> you added universe to the update script??
<ogra> nope
<mdz> someone did
<ogra> i didnt touch the update script ecept uncommenting the unsupported arches as you told me
<ogra> ok, from the beginning:
<mdz> someone did, and it wasn't me or colin
<ogra> 1. i added everything to the seeds and ran the update script for the first time... this left edubuntu-desktop and -server uninstallable for weeks...
<ogra> 2. Kamion told me to comment the unneeded stuff for now...
<Mithrandir> mdz: pkgconfig is the old, deprecated source package name.
<ogra> 3. i uncommented what was approved
<mdz> ogra: the very first version of edubuntu-meta has universe in the update script
<mdz> this is wrong
<mdz> no wonder its packages were uninstallable for months
<ogra> hmm... i didnt touch it... i'm pretty sure... but its enabled here too... strange
<mdz> ogra: who made the package, if not you?
<ogra> i took ubuntu-meta....
<mdz> ...which does not and has never had universe in the update script...
<ogra> hmm... 
<ogra> i really cant remember touching the update script except when you told me ....
<ogra> i correcte it now
<ogra> corrected even
<mdz> ogra: please don't upload
<mdz> I will fix it
<mdz> did you already upload a 0.10?  I don't see it in the queue or in the archive
<mdz> forget it; I'll upload 0.11
<ogra> no, i just killed the upload and wiped the -0.10 dir
<mdz> 0.11 uploaded
<ogra> ok, thanks.... sorry for making so much fuss, but i still dont know how universe got in there...
<mdz> ogra: the update script is written so that it doesn't add packages to the dependencies unless they are in main
<mdz> ogra: for the express purpose of avoiding the package being uninstallable
<mdz> you disabled that check by adding universe
<ogra> yes, i understand that...
<infinity> Meh.  I spend all day berating people for not testing before uploading, then catch myself doing it twice in a row.  Perhaps I'll take myself out back and shoot myself.
* ogra goes to beat his head against a wall for some hours since he really doesnt know how universe got in his package but is 100%sure nobody else touched it
<mdz> ogra: I imagine that you thought it should be there because some of the packages you wanted were in universe
<mdz> but the packages are designed to work within main, and all edubuntu packages should be in main
<mdz> we talked about that, but perhaps it was after you created the package
<ogra> mdz, might be, but i *absolutely* cant remember editing it... thats what bothers me...
* mjg59 starts writing a script to autoconfigure IRDA
<\sh> mjg59: u rock
<\sh> and I packaged gajim 0.8 right now...and it's the best gtk jabber client I know now
<\sh> just PSI for gtk
<\sh> with dbus capabilities
<\sh> and written in python
<mdz> mjg59: what are we going to do about swsusp vs. kernel mismatches for breezy?
<mdz> mjg59: ideally we ought to refuse to suspend if the new default kernel is different from the old default kernel; that won't catch all cases but I think they probably deserve what they get if they explicitly choose a different kernel
<mdz> mjg59: unfortunately I don't see a way to make it work nicely without parsing menu.lst
<Keybuk> ya know, once again I'm reminded of one thing about GNOME that *really* needs to be fixed
<Keybuk> apps that don't save their config/state when you logout while they're running
<mjg59> mdz: Yeah. Something needs to deal with grub.
<{Seb}> it seems flashplayer-mozilla has gone from multiverse
<{Seb}> in breezy
<{Seb}> sorry - ignore that
<mdz> mjg59: mailed you a gross hack
<Mez> elmo: can you whitelist muszilla@users.sourceforge.net if he's not whitelisted already
<mjg59> mdz: Heh. Right, I'll check it out later on
<JanC> <\sh> and I packaged gajim 0.8 right now...and it's the best gtk jabber client I know now
<JanC> c66l8
<mjg59> If people could test http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/tmp/irda-setup.sh I would love them forever
<mdz> mjg59: if you know how to look up symbols inside a vmlinuz, it could be made quite a lot more accurate by extracting system_utsname
<JanC> hm, that should have been "cool!" (keyboard fucked up again)
<mjg59> mdz: Not off the top of my head
<Mithrandir> mjg59: 22:02:06 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
<mdz> I suppose it'd be a matter of un-gzipping the right bit and correlating with System.map
<mdz> but I'm far too lazy
<\sh> guys...I'm surprised...gnome looks better then a week ago
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Uhm. Try again?
<mjg59> Oh. That's odd.
<Mithrandir> still 403
<mjg59> It's a+w
<mjg59> Hrm.
<mjg59> Lose the .sh at the end
<mjg59> Something on the server doesn't like shell screipts
<mjg59> ogra: Looks like your machine ought to be using nsc-ircc
<Mithrandir> mjg59: got it
<Mithrandir> mjg59: how do you want me to test it?  Apart from running it and seeing it complain about missing setserial, I mean. :-P
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Heh. Install setserial, run it, tell me what /var/run/irdadev looks like
<Mithrandir> mjg59: you'll break my suspend now, you know that?
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Oh, probably
<Mithrandir> Illegal UART type: undefined
<Mithrandir> irda-setup: line 63: true=false: command not found
<Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > cat /var/run/irdadev
<Mithrandir> /dev/ttyS1 sir
<mjg59> Whoops
<mjg59> Excessive $
<Mithrandir> you haven't tested this on your x40 at all? :-P
<mjg59> I have, but you have a later BIOS version
<mjg59> So it actually works for you
<mjg59> Mine has broken IR
<Mithrandir> ah, ok
<Mithrandir> mine has spoken with my phone on several occasions
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Can you grab it again and retry?
<Mithrandir> cat /var/run/irdadev
<Mithrandir> irda0 fir
<Mithrandir> no error messages
<mjg59> Ok, that looks better
<mjg59> Rock
<mjg59> Now I just need more PNP IDs
<mjg59> And to rewrite irda-utils
<\sh> mjg59: what u need? I have this nc6000 with the smsc-ircc2 chipset which is not working 
<mjg59> \sh: If you run the code from http://www.csai.unipa.it/peri/toshsat1800-irdasetup/ does smsc-ircc2 work?
<\sh> mjg59: I tried...never successfull
<\sh> but I will give it a try again...
<\sh> I think I should take the time to test irda on the portege
<mjg59> \sh: You've seen http://people.debian.org/~pxt/nc6000/ ?
<desrt> what do y'all think: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CACertInclusion
<\sh> mjg59: not until now :)
<\sh> mjg59: I will give it a try tomorrow morning :)
<\sh> right now I need to test gajim
<mjg59> desrt: It would currently involve changing the name of Firefox to something else
<desrt> mjg59; isn't that why we already call it "firefox" instead of "mozilla firefox" and use a different icon?
<mjg59> desrt: No
<mjg59> It's called "firefox" rather than "mozilla firefox" to indicate that it's not the official build. Changing the default SSL certificates would require changing it away from firefox
<desrt> that's extremely harsh
<mjg59> Yeah
* desrt goes to read some moz trademark junk
<Mithrandir> cacert is pushing for their root cert to be included upstream, though
<desrt> ya
<desrt> someone just gave me a link to a ranting blog entry
<desrt> i'm not sure what to make of it, but it sounds like mozilla are being dickslaps about it
<desrt> http://blog.cacert.org/2005/07/81.html
<tseng> eh, not everyone trusts cacert
<Mithrandir> tseng: their CA policy is just fine, IMO, but they're on crack wrt some of the GPG stuff
<mjg59> Mozilla won't accept the CA root certificate until they're satisfied that they hand it out sensibly
<tseng> their blog is funny
<desrt> and up to here, sensibly ~= "with a large fee for services rendered"
<tseng> capitalism == bad, and wep can be cracked in "minutes"
<JanC> <tseng> eh, not everyone trusts cacert
<JanC> I don't trust verisign...
<desrt> ya
<JanC> if _I_ can get a cert for a (not yet) existing company, everybody can...
<desrt> SSL is only vaguely trustworthy as an authentication method
<tseng> eh, i dont "trust" anyone that isnt a well established business for some time *AND* has a valid cert
<tseng> but thats probabyl a different issue
<desrt> "valid" according to what?
<desrt> some other business says "oh ya.. you can trust these guys"
<tseng> yes
<desrt> ...
<\sh> hmmm....
<\sh> /usr/include/python2.4/pyconfig.h:835:1: warning: "_POSIX_C_SOURCE" redefined
<\sh> how can I get rid of this error?
<azeem> it's a warning
<\sh> yeah...is there a way of getting rid of it?
<tseng> desrt: the cert validating amazon.com doesnt protect me 100% from someone squatting on it from the begining
<tseng> desrt: but it does offer you something for MiM or similar
<Mithrandir> tseng: do you think it's by accident that all the canonical certs are self-signed even though sabdfl did Thawte?
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: erm. it is, actually. i think we're starting to get a few from komodo now :-)
<\sh> LOL
<tseng> :)
<tseng> comodo I think
<sabdfl> we tried to get some from thawte but they proved too difficult to deal with
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: we are?  Amazing :-)  Might get rid of some of those multiple ssl vhosts on the same ip as well in the process?
<\sh> sabdfl: u r surprising me every single time u r appearing from nowhere ,-)
<sabdfl> currently appearing from my kitchen
<desrt> just get certs from cacert
<Mithrandir> \sh: I think his IRC client went "bling" when I said his name.
<sabdfl> \sh: ^
<sabdfl> tho i was just in another window, hacking on my w/e gift to the launchpad team
<mdz> sabdfl: fingers bleeding yet?
<sabdfl> mdz: somewha
<sabdfl> t
<\sh> Mithrandir: hmmm....or sabdfl wrote an irssi plugin for sending out sms to his mobile when his name is hilighted 
<sabdfl> silbs doesn't believe i can add an LP subsystem in a weekend
<Mithrandir> \sh: he doesn't use irssi, TTBOMK
<\sh> no irssi? come on...,-)
<mdz> sabdfl: "can" or "should"? ;-)
<\sh> hmmm....rhythmbox and rbscrobbler are not running anymore together
<\sh> ah now...it lost the password somehow
<desrt> \sh; oh.  they were deprecated
<\sh> ogra__: how many gnome/gtk uploads I should do per release cycle?
<ogra__> \sh, as many as you like indeed :)
<ogra__> mjg59, thanks for the info.. i'll check if i can use nsc-ircc
<\sh> ogra__: check this out: throw away gaim ,-) use gajim ;) http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/81-Gajim-The-PSI-on-Gnome.html
<mjg59> ogra__: Could you try running http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/tmp/irda-setup and tell me what /var/run/irdadev looks like afterwards?
<ogra__> mjg59, yup... downloading that was the last thing i tried before my wlan broke :) tryin again now...
* ogra__ digs for a old mobile phone with irda
<mjg59> ogra__: The name's a bit misleading - this will only set up IRDA, not actually start it
<mjg59> I need to modify irda-utils to handle that
<ogra__> mjg59, setserial isnt installed by default it seems
<mjg59> ogra__: Indeed
<ogra__> [84615.106088]  nsc_ircc: Unknown parameter `0'
<ogra__> (dmesg output)
<mjg59> ogra__: Gah.
<mjg59> ogra__: Edit it and change "OPTIONS=0" to OPTIONS=""
<ogra__> [84650.513255]  nsc-ircc, Found chip at base=0x02e
<ogra__> [84650.513268]  nsc-ircc, driver loaded (Dag Brattli)
<ogra__> [84650.515628]  IrDA: Registered device irda0
<ogra__> [84650.515654]  nsc-ircc, Found dongle: HP HSDL-1100/HSDL-2100
<ogra__> looks good
<mjg59> ogra__: Rock
<mjg59> ogra__: What does /var/run/irdadev have?
<mjg59> And what hardware is this?
<ogra__> irda0 fir
<ogra__> still my amd64 laptop (acer Aspire 1520)
<mjg59> Cool
<mjg59> That all looks good
<torkel> same for me, with a Thinkpad T40
<torkel> [4582947.644000]  nsc-ircc, Using dongle: IBM31T1100 or Temic TFDS6000/TFDS6500
<seth_k> Treenaks, planet RSS still dead, don't think you changed the right bits :(
<mjg59> torkel: Rocking
<mjg59> Basically, what this does is look through your PNP data and try to find an IR device
<torkel> mjg59: nice
<mjg59> If it finds a fast IR device, it works out which serial port it's attached to and turns off the UART
<mjg59> Then it loads the driver
<mjg59> If the driver loading fails, or if it can't work out which driver to use, it sets the serial port up to match the PNP data
<mjg59> Then it records this information in a format that can be parsed by irda-utils when it starts up
<mjg59> Basically, all SIR ports (and most FIR ones) have a PNP of PNP0510 or PNP0511 associated with them
<mjg59> So this is actually fairly easy
<mjg59> No idea why nobody's written it before
<ogra__> heh...
<mjg59> Most FIR ones have a model specific thing that lets you work out the chip, too
<sabdfl> mdz: you may have a point
<mjg59> Damni. No, acpipnp is missing entries on some machines.
* mjg59 tries to figure out why
<Nafallo> LOL
* Nafallo sees that badgerdance for the first time ;-)
<mdz> elmo: hpoj seems to need some help getting back into universe
<bob_too> you got is working?
<bob_too> wrong channel sorry
<ogra> yay, ltsp-client is installable again... finaly
* ogra thanks seb128 in absence
#ubuntu-devel 2005-08-26
<\sh> ok...when this is working..I have a running gajim with xmpp 1.0 SRV record recognition
<Nafallo> \sh: REVU-material?
<\sh> Nafallo: yes
<\sh> Nafallo: dnspython is already in..I need it for this
<\sh> Nafallo: (on revu i mean)
<Nafallo> \sh: I put it on todo then ;-)
<Nafallo> but now, sleep
<\sh> Nafallo: gajim is really a good gtk app :) I like it :)
<\sh> strike
<\sh> tls is working so xmpp 1.0 SRV is fulfilled
<\sh> ok..I have to wait for python2.4-gnome2-extras 
<\sh> Bed time...cu later today..
<rob^> Hi, I'm getting the following when trying to install scorched3d on colony 3:  Depends: libwxgtk2.4 (>=2.4.2.6ubuntu1) but it is not installable
<Burgundavia> rob^, that is a question for #ubuntu-motu
<rob^> okies
<jdub> ahr!
<Burgundavia> jdub, hey! I cannot seem to login to the -users admin thingy
<jdub> Burgundavia: log in to the moderator page admindb rather than admin
<Burgundavia> jdub, ok
<Burgundavia> jdub, still spitting me up errors. I can login and edit the -ca stuff
<jdub> Burgundavia: i'll get in touch tonight - i'm actually in the country at pia's parents house :)
<jdub> (fixing their internet)
<Burgundavia> jdub, ok
<Burgundavia> jdub, I would love to get to that 7k+ list of stuff to be dealt with
* Burgundavia hugs mjg59 
<\sh> infinity: ping
<kagou> hi
<Diablo-D3> hey
<Diablo-D3> why are people having to pay customs for ubuntu pressed cds?
<Diablo-D3> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/shipit/
<Diablo-D3> grep for 3000 quetzales
<Diablo-D3> thats insane
<Burgundavia> Diablo-D3, some people don't understand that the software can be free
<Diablo-D3> I have to admit thats a strange concept
<Diablo-D3> why wouldnt software be free?
<Burgundavia> regardless, that is reason
<Diablo-D3> wtf
<Burgundavia> it is not really on topic for -devel either
<Diablo-D3> well Im not sure where else to ask about this
<Burgundavia> it is not really an issue that can be solved by ubuntu/canonical
<Diablo-D3> imo it should be added to that faq, however
<Diablo-D3> "Warning: Some world governments are attempting to charge money for Linux via customs, please, instigate rebellion in those countries!"
<Diablo-D3> or something like that
<Diablo-D3> erk, nm, it actually /is/ there
* Diablo-D3 didnt notice it before
<Diablo-D3> has anyone had experience using local companies to help distribute ubuntu cds?
<Diablo-D3> like, leaving a box of them behind, with a sign saying "Take One, Its Free" or something
<b3nw> in colony 3 is there a way to kill the installing packages bar and see whats going on?
<mache> b3nw, alt+f4?
<b3nw> oo thats a prob
<mache> i mean, switch to another console
<b3nw> i have to enter a yes or no
<b3nw> otherwise i'm stuck at 85% for life
<b3nw> :X
<Diablo-D3> and thats why I only use apt-get
<b3nw> you started with a server install?
* Diablo-D3 wonders if anyone has comments on that
<mache> b3nw, no, "normal" aka full install
<mache> Diablo-D3, yea, aptitude is much better than apt-get ;)
<lathiat> b3nw: Then thats a bug, please file a bug at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<b3nw> yeah even if I type in yes or I type in No it doesn't continue
<b3nw> bleh
<mache> i installed a breezy machine (using netinstall) a few days ago and now i want to install another one
<mache> is there any way to use the packages already downloaded on the first one?
<mache> and to avoid downloading them again?
<Diablo-D3> I do it by sharing my /var/apt/cache/archives dir over nfs
<mache> without apt-proxy or other cache proxies
<mache> i see
<Diablo-D3> of course, I dont know if you can do that during the install...
<mache> if i put a ftp/http server on the first one
<mache> i suppose i can replicate the archive structure
<Diablo-D3> yeah, you could always try that, but that seems to be a big pain in the ass
<Diablo-D3> mache: why not use apt-proxy?
<Diablo-D3> you can import pre-existing debs into it
<mache> Diablo-D3, i can?
<mache> humm
<Diablo-D3> yeah, use the apt-proxy-import command
<mache> i'm reading now :)
<mache> i never knew about proxy-import
<mache> cool, i'll give it a try
<b3nw> has anyone heard of xorg allowing you to scroll with the mouse wheel down but not up?
<Diablo-D3> nope
<Treenaks> OK, planet is really ill... it every time it reads my feed, it thinks a post I did a few days ago was done at the moment it's reading the feed
<Treenaks> Not Good
<infinity> If you have something like '"ZAxisMapping" "4 5"' in your xorg.conf but, while mwheeldown produces "button 5", mwheelup doesn't produce "button 4", that could happen.  Othewise, no idea.
<infinity> (Not that I've ever seen such a thing)
<ivoks> hi
<Mez|WoW> any reason why linux-restricted-modules keeps uninstalling itself?
<pronik> Hello, guys. Is it intended that latest totem is compiled without mozilla plugin?
<infinity> MEz : Uninstalling itself?
<infinity> MEz : Do you have anything more concrete than that? :)
<MEz> yeah
<MEz> er#
<MEz> no
<infinity> Like, WHY is it being unsinstalled? :)
<MEz> other than the fact I keep notcing when I come to play games it's not installed
<MEz> I'm just trying to find that out :D
<MEz> I think it's something to do with kernel updates
<infinity> Well, I just uplaoded a new version that should clear up some dependency issues, maybbe that'll make you happy.
<infinity> Also, if you odn't have the linux-image metapaches installed, you won't get new restricted-modules automatically with new kernels.
<infinity> Maybe that's your issue.
<infinity> metapackages, too.  Wow, can Iever type.
<Mez> I do seem to have the metapacakges installed
<Mez> ii  linux-image-k7           2.6.12.11  
<Mez> oh wait
<Mez> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/incoming/dnspython-0508210015/dnspython_1.3.4-0ubuntu0.1.diff.gz
<Mez> sorry
<Mez> ii  linux-restricted-modules 2.6.12.2-1 
<Mez> No packages found matching linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12-7-k7.
<infinity> You want 'linux-k7' if you want restriced modules by default.
<Mez> ty
<siretart> when maintaining packages with baz, what is preferred arch-buildpackage or tla-buildpackage? or did I miss something?
<infinity> siretart : Whichever you like better, I suppose.  Or neither.
<siretart> infinity: hm. I was looking for something similar to svn-buildpackage, but for baz. I'm trying to get used to it
<siretart> infinity: good to see you here, I noticed you uploaded yesterday a new xorg, with some changes to mesa/gl packages. is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGLUTransition still uptodate regarding the build dependencies?
* hmrocha is away: coding
<infinity> siretart : Wasn't right, but I've updated it for you.
<infinity> siretart : I may well finish up the transition for Universe in the next day or so anyway, so the point might be moot.
<infinity> siretart : I've already done main/restricted.
<infinity> (Well, restricted will be done when I figure out how I managed to break l-r-m and reupload it)
<siretart> ah, so we go from xorg gl/glu headers to mesa headers, right?
<infinity> Yup.
<lathiat> ooc, why did we drop libcairo1 from the archives before at least all things for ubuntu-desktop had been transitioned?
<infinity> lathiat : Because it was generated from the same source as libcairo2.
<lathiat> infinity: ah
<infinity> lathiat : It'll sort itself shortly.  Development releases aren't meant to be user friendly. :)
<lathiat> i know
<lathiat> just annoying tryign to test stuff when things aren't installable thats all ;)
<infinity> lathiat : Grab libcairo1.deb from a Colony3 CD and install it. :)
<lathiat> yeh thats what im doing
<lathiat> heh
<lathiat> wiating for it to rsync
<{Seb}> there seems to be an installer bug with colony 3
<{Seb}> after installing it on my laptop
<{Seb}> and booting up, it said 'Can not find device /dev/hda1'
<JanC> {Seb}, it doesn't completely boot and drops you in a busybox shell ?
<{Seb}> yep
<{Seb}> known bug?
<JanC> {Seb}, I had a similar problem when upgrading breezy to kernel version 2.6.12-7-10 on my laptop
<{Seb}> well - i've installed it from colony 2 and dist-upgrading as we speak
<ploum> Hello
<ploum> Damien Sandras, gnomemeeting's author, want to talk about shtoom vs gnomemeeting in Ubuntu
<ploum> Where's the best place for that ?
<\sh> #ubuntu-meeting ?
<\sh> when?
<ploum> yes, indeed, when ;-)
<ploum> which meeting is the best ?
<\sh> TB
<ploum> to put it in the agenda
<\sh> technical board
<\sh> or he just appears here..:) I took over the project
<ploum> \sh, you are the maintener of shtoom ?
<\sh> ploum: I will package it and took over the project from thom
<ploum> ok :-)
<ploum> is the project funded by Ubuntu fundation ? (or maybe bounties)
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ShtoomVoip
<\sh> this is the UDU Project description
<ploum> \sh, have you any idea why shtoom was choosen over gnomemeeting as a VoIP ?
<Mithrandir> gnomemeeting doesn't do SIP, does it?
<tseng> gnomemeeting doesnt do sip
<tseng> its WIP
<\sh> yes...shtoom is python, easy to extend and it's UI independend
<\sh> gnomemeeting wants to support sip, when I remembered some of the goals on the faq, right?
<\sh> but 
<\sh> will it support jabber as well? or at least simple?
<mjr> gnomemeeting's next major release supports sip, but dunno how that's coming along
<tseng> its sortof working on a branch
<Snark> salut
<\sh> ploum: I have to think about kde as well :)
<ploum> \sh, Gnomemeeting is doing SIP for me for some months
<ploum> but I think that debian and Ubuntu packages are CVS snapshots
<ploum> for KDE, indeed, that's another problem
<\sh> ploum: that is one of the biggest :) UI independency :)
<\sh> ploum: and shtoom is only a high-level api to twisteds SIP api...taking care about sound stuff etc.
<ploum> indeed, but I've one major point for Gnomemeeting : it works :-)
<ploum> (shtoom doesn't work here)
<\sh> ploum: shtoom works as well
<\sh> I just tested it with a local voip provider here :)
<\sh> ploum: latest SVN HEAD of shtoom indeed
<ploum> (well, I have only tried those old deb packages ;-) )
<\sh> ploum: forget them :) twisted 2.x + shtoom svn head == working...actually the UIs are a bit non-userfriendly
<ploum> \sh, what codecs does shtoom use ?
<ploum> and, I'm a bit curious about this mysterious "dot ubuntu" 
* ploum is very curious about this
<\sh> ploum: I have to check...but it's pluggable
<\sh> G711 ULAW (aka PCMU)
<\sh> with pygsm it handles as well GSM 06.10.
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/dotUbuntu <- everything about dotUbuntu :)
<ploum> I only see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DotUbuntuRegistrationClient
<ploum> Where's the "ConquerTheWorld" page in this wiki ?
<ploum> ;-)
<\sh> yeah me too ,-)
<pef> hi
<ploum> \sh, I remember seing bounties about shtoom
<ploum> is it possible or am I wrong ?
<\sh> ploum: i don't find anything for shtoom but for the registration client...actually I'm not interessted in bounties :)
<ploum> I've read somewhere that shtoom is funded by Ubuntu (or MArk Shuttleworth) but I can't find it anymore
<ploum> is this true ?
<ploum> By the way I really like the dotUbuntu idea :-)
<\sh> ploum: /join #shtoom 
<\sh> and ask anthony
<ploum> aaaaargh !
<ploum> (f*** breezy gnome-panel !)
<ploum> Thx \sh :-)
<\sh> ploum: there are some more things I want to include into this goal...
<crispin> 15:13 @         chpe | yeah, I've seen it on gtk-d\evel-list
<crispin> argh, sorry
<j^> http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/
<lu|away> ohrealy.
<lu|away> j^: what are the odds of those actually working? :)
* lu|away hopes for 'high'
<siretart> j^: ?
<j^> lu|away i use them
<j^> you have to remove bind9 from /etc/rc?.d/
<j^> http://bootlab.org/~j/bazaar/ are also the baz sources
<j^> regarding the bind9 issue http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13491
<j^> infinity these NetworkManager packages are what is taged as 0.4.1 in NetworkManager CVS
<rubenv> j^: add a readme there for potential testers
<tseng> j^: that wont dhcp for me
<tseng> j^: just keeps starting over
<tseng> j^: is there a way to get debug/log?
<tseng> buh
<Alex> buh? moeh!
<mdke> can somebody who runs an openssh-server on a breezy machine try and login to it with "sftp" please, i can't do it on mine and i think its a bug
* mjg59 tracks down ACPI PNP weirdness
<rubenv> mdke: sec, booting one
<mdke> actually...
<mdke> it's my bad I think
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> sorry!
<rubenv> had to backup to it anyway :-)
<mdke> :)
<Mez> mdz: ping
<j^> tseng you can look in syslog
<j^> tseng you need dhcp3-client installed, dhcdbd is still misssing that dependency
<tseng> i have both
<tseng> brb ill see what comes up in messages
<tseng> Aug 21 11:25:42 localhost dhcdbd: message_handler: message handler not found under /com/redhat/dhcp/eth1 for sub-path eth1.dbus.get.reason
<j^> i get that too
<j^> but it still works
<tseng> buh
<tseng> mine starts claiming to dhcp, then the progress bar drops off and its still spinning
<tseng> then no connection icon
<j^> and do you see any message from dhclient in syslog?
<tseng> no
<rubenv> the hoary version is broken like hell
<rubenv> I feel very tempted to upgrade to breezy again :-)
<j^> was dhclient running before?
<tseng> um
<tseng> yes
<j^> kill it
<tseng> k
<j^> there should be no audto stanca in /etc/network/interfaces 
<j^> and /etc/init.d/networking start should not configure any interface
<tseng> um
<tseng> ok.
<tseng> i dont think that was an issue with the old packages
<rubenv> j^: lo?
<j^> rubenv lo should be ok
<j^> NetworkManager will also configure lo though
<rubenv> hmmm, breezy is highly broken, I'll delay my upgrade for a while (till all is on libcairo2)
<tseng> none of that helps much
<j^> tseng still no message from dhclient in syslog?
<tseng> no
<tseng> yes
<tseng> Aug 21 11:32:31 localhost dhcdbd: Shut down.
<tseng> Aug 21 11:32:39 localhost dhcdbd: Started up.
<j^> did you just install dhcdbd?
<tseng> no
<j^> if so, did you restart dbus?
<tseng> yes
<j^> and is dhclient running?
<j^> here i have something like
<j^> /sbin/dhclient -1 -lf /var/run/dhclient.eth0.leases -pf /var/run/dhclient.eth0.pid -e dhc_dbus=31 -x -d eth0
<j^> in ps ax
<tseng> it is when i have to use it to get back on the network
<tseng> but i kill it in between tests
<j^> it should be started by /sbin/dhcdbd
<j^> /sbin/dhclient --version
<j^> isc-dhclient-V3.0.2
<tseng> nm is starting /sbin/dhclient --version
<j^> no
<tseng> isc-dhclient-V3.0.2
<tseng> something is, after I kill it and restart dbus
<j^> what you can try as root: NetworkManager --no-daemon
<j^> that way you get the output in the terminal
<j^> and the applet with nm-applet --sm-disable
<j^> as user
<daniels> i just fixed the whole flashy-black-rectangles on window start and switch in breezy
<daniels> 'twas a gtk bug
<\sh> daniels: u fixed the crashing gnome-panel as well? ;)
<daniels> no way
<daniels> that's seb's problem
<tseng> j^: http://tseng.ath.cx/nmlog
<j^> tseng did you have nm installed before?
<tseng> j^: yes.
<j^> and you use WEP?
<tseng> yes
<mjg59> ACPI CRACK
<j^> tseng try to select connect to other wireles network
<lathiat> mjg59: :)
<tseng> j^: same thing
<j^> and enter your networkname and wep key again
<lathiat> daniels: yay
<lathiat> daniels: that was annoying me :)
<tseng> yeah ive done that
<j^> including the wep key. there was an issue with old keys 
<j^> NetworkManager: nm_ip4_config_copy: assertion `src_config != NULL' failed
<j^> this is strange
<tseng> ive put in the key 100 times now
<j^> can you try ifconfig eth0 down before starting NM
<j^> what do you have in /etc/network/interfaces?
<hunger> j^: Does NM use that?
<hunger> j^: I thought NM had it's own means of configuration.
<tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/interfaces
<tseng> quick
<tseng> steal my wifi
<j^> ah
<j^> you have to take that out
<tseng> that affects things why?
<j^> hunger NM uses static ip configurations from /e/n/i if present
<j^> it should still not fail
<hunger> j^: Where does NM get it's other configuration from?
<tseng> is commenting good enough?
<j^> tseng should do
<tseng> good, i dont trust nm
<j^> hunger which other information?
* ogra_ltsp quickly attaches his laptop to http://www.nordeifel.de/effelsberg/teleskop-totale.jpg next door to steal tseng's wireless
* tseng does the restart/kill everything dance again
<hunger> j^: WLAN keys, etc.
<tseng> ogra_ltsp: haha!
<ogra_ltsp> :)
<j^> hunger gconf and keyring of the user
<hunger> j^: Why doesen't it store IP settings there as well?
<hunger> j^: Having several places to check for network setup is evil IMHO.
<j^> NM does not support static ips
<j^> still it uses the distros information if present
<tseng> still no luck
<hunger> j^: It does set it up, isen't that "supporting"?
<hunger> j^: Will it pick up WLAN keys from /e/n/i as well?
<j^> its part of the distribution backend.
<j^> one could also take it out
<j^> and say no static ips at all
<j^> it will only take ip settings from /e/n/i
<j^> if iface eth1 inet static is present
<tseng> so far my little dance involves, ifconfig eth{0,1} down, killall dhc*, restart dbus, killall nm-applet
<tseng> then try again
<hunger> j^: Why not add that into NM as well and remove /e/n/i entirely?
<j^> tseng you can also just do killall -9 NetworkManger 
<j^> killall -9 named
<j^> NetworkManger --no-daemon
<j^> killall nm-applet
<tseng> what is the dispatcher part
<hunger> j^: That would get rid of the distro-part entirely and might even make things more uniform across distros;-)
<j^> dispatcher is not used right now
<j^> you can ignore it 
<j^> it would allow you to have scripts that are run on connect
<tseng> NetworkManager: nm_ip4_config_copy: assertion `src_config != NULL' failed
<j^> hunger i agree with you, but dan did it this way to start with
* tseng gives up
<j^> in a next step NM should also provide a cross distribution way to configure static ips (imho)
<j^> what does your interfaces file look like right now?
<karim__> hi
<tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/interfaces
<tseng> like this
<j^> can you try 
<j^> auto lo
<j^> iface lo inet loopback
<j^> iface eth1 inet dhcp
<j^> iface eth0 inet dhcp
<j^> you still have 
<j^> iface eth1 inet static
<j^> if you also take that out
<j^> it should work
<tseng> ok
<hunger> j^: I do wonder what NM makes out of my /e/n/i... I use mappings rather a lot to setup WLAN-keys on the fly;-)
<j^> not sure about the mapping thing
<j^> hunger well it will not work
<hunger> j^: Yeap... the only effect I see when starting NM is that it breaks eth0 so that I have to ifdown/ifup it;-)
<tseng> holy crap
<tseng> j^: thats it, i feel stupid.
<j^> hunger but since, if you use NM you dont need that any longer in /e/n/i you can replace it with 
<j^> http://bootlab.org/~j/interfaces
<hunger> j^: I can't... it breaks eth0... and nm-applet does not show any icon.
<tseng> j^: thanks
<j^> hunger define it breaks
<hunger> j^: It does break its configuration so that I need to ifdown/ifup it.
<j^> if nm-applet does not show up it could be that your wireless card driver is broken
<j^> tseng no problem
<j^> tseng its always good to know what the problems are.
<hunger> j^: There is no wlan driver for my card.
<j^> ?
<hunger> j^: Well, not in ubuntu that is:-)
<j^> <hunger> j^: I do wonder what NM makes out of my /e/n/i... I use mappings rather a lot to setup WLAN-keys on the fly;-)
<j^> so you do that without a wireless driver?
<hunger> j^: I used that /e/n/i with my own kernels... it does work great there.
<j^> hunger still not able to parse your statement
<hunger> j^: I switched to the default ubuntu kernels not and they have no madwifi.
<\sh> hunger: they have
<j^> NM does not work for your because you have your own kernel installed?
<hunger> j^: s/not/recently/.
<Burgundavia> mjg59, ping
<mjg59> Burgundavia: Hi
<hunger> j^: I didn't try NM with my own kernels... only with the default ubuntu ones which have no madwifi.
<mjg59> hunger: Yes they do
<mjg59> Install linux-restricted-modules
<hunger> j^: Well, the newest version has... but those are completly broken and do not load.
<Burgundavia> mjg59, for the hotkey stuff, is there a good guide on how to file a bug about those?
<j^> hunger well, thats a bad test, dont expect NM to fix your kernel
<mjg59> Burgundavia: Not really
<hunger> j^: No, I expect NM to work with my ethernet card in absense of WLAN drivers.
<Burgundavia> mjg59, can you email me what would be the best procedure and I can edit the wiki page with instructions accordingly
<mjg59> Burgundavia: Ok, will try
<mjg59> (Bit tied up at the moment)
<Burgundavia> mjg59, I am also writing an email about various things that people might make mistakes on (not telling us about ootb support, upgrades instead of installs, etc.)
<hunger> j^: nm-applet does not show up without wlan drivers (or so it seems to me), so I count it as broken.
<mjg59> Burgundavia: Ok, cool
<Burgundavia> mjg59, I am about to leave for work, but tomorrow I have the day off, so we can coordinate tomorrow
<mjg59> Burgundavia: Ok, cool
<j^> hunger it should show up now.
<j^> not showing up was an issue with earlier version of nm
<hunger> j^: Right... now I get lots of connections refused from dbus.
<j^> hunger did you restart dbus?
<trygvebw> evening
<trygvebw> Is Breezy broken atm, or is it pretty safe to dist-upgrade?
<Mithrandir> works for me
<trygvebw> oaky
<trygvebw> *okay.
<trygvebw> How long is it since you dist-upgraded?
<lathiat> err, bad idea as usual, particularly because libcairo1 has gone and a whole tonne of stuff deps on it atm.
<lathiat> if anything, use colony 3
<Mithrandir> this morning, CEST time.
<trygvebw> oh
<trygvebw> So GNOME won't work?
<lathiat> and then dist upgrade if you like
<lathiat> as you'll have cairo1 and ebook1.2-3 installed then
<trygvebw> okay.
<lathiat> but if your just a general end user then your better off waiting.
<trygvebw> i'll just stay with my current Breezy install then :) 
<\sh> trygvebw: if you have breezy running...it's ok I think to dist-upgrade again
<trygvebw> oh, okay :)
<trygvebw> i'll try ;)
<\sh> well..the gnome-panel is a bit flakey
<trygvebw> ah
<trygvebw> thanks.
<j^> hm
<j^> [   63.091429]   /dev/scsi/host0/bus0/target1/lun0: p1
<j^> [   63.125792]  Attached scsi disk sda at scsi0, channel 0, id 1, lun 0
<j^> [ 1817.987114]  idr_remove called for id=1024 which is not allocated.
<j^> [ 1817.987161]   [<c01b4250>]  sub_remove+0xf4/0xf6
<j^> [ 1817.987254]   [<c01b4281>]  idr_remove+0x2f/0xaa
<j^> [ 1817.987273]   [<c017923b>]  remove_watch_no_event+0x58/0xb2
<j^> [ 1817.987294]   [<c0179633>]  inotify_inode_is_dead+0x46/0x72
<j^> [ 1817.987315]   [<c016b34b>]  prune_dcache+0x11d/0x163
<j^> [ 1817.987345]   [<c016b6bc>]  shrink_dcache_memory+0x1f/0x45
<j^> [ 1817.987357]   [<c01417a7>]  shrink_slab+0x10c/0x16f
<j^> [ 1817.987399]   [<c01429ce>]  balance_pgdat+0x21e/0x3a7
<j^> [ 1817.987462]   [<c0142c2f>]  kswapd+0xd8/0x11d
<j^> [ 1817.987482]   [<c012aecd>]  autoremove_wake_function+0x0/0x57
<j^> [ 1817.987509]   [<c012aecd>]  autoremove_wake_function+0x0/0x57
<j^> [ 1817.987529]   [<c0142b57>]  kswapd+0x0/0x11d
<j^> [ 1817.987543]   [<c01012d9>]  kernel_thread_helper+0x5/0xb
<j^> so much for firewire disks
<lathiat> firewire sucks
<lathiat> add
<lathiat> sbp2 serialize_io=1
<lathiat> to /etc/modules
<lathiat> it helps
<j^> lathiat this was the disk going in some powersave mode
<lathiat> heh
<j^> i prefere firewire disks to usb2 once
<hunger> j^: no icon in the tray after restarting dbus. NM did break my eth0 though...
<zanaga> I find it quite amusing that Thunderbird spell checker (aka, english spell check) doesn't know the word Ubuntu ;)
<j^> hunger if you are using dhcp it should just renew the lease, you can also have a look at syslog
<hunger> j^: Lots of "nm_ip4_config_get_address: assertion `
<hunger> config != NULL' failed"
<j^> hunger static ip?
<hunger> j^: "Now managing device eth0" next line: "deactivating eth0".
<hunger> j^: dhcp.
<j^> what does your /e/n/i look like?
<j^> it looks again like a problem with parsing it.
<hunger> j^: "<ERROR>^I[1124274746.611112]   (): coul
<hunger> dn't initialize nameserver: Failed to execute child process "no" (No such file o
<hunger> r directory)"
<j^> hunger thats network-manager from breezy
<j^> not the one from http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/
<hunger> j^: Yeap... updated today.
<j^> hunger the one in breezy does not work
<hunger> j^: Oh, sorry to have bothered you then.
<zanaga> there is a patch in the bts for that bug
<j^> hunger thats why i up a new version at http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/
<j^> *put
<\sh> anyone who knows how to set urgent hints for windows in gtk?
<\sh> or a pointer would be enough
<infinity> \sh : gaim does it.  It doesn't work in metacity without a patches libwnck16, though.
<infinity> \sh : (as much as I hate to refer to forums for anything), check out http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=39776
<\sh> yeah I saw this...do our gnome has the patch applied?
<infinity> Not AFAIK.  We should get it in for breezy.
<infinity> (I run the patched libwnck16 here, and it works well)
<\sh> infinity: btw..I need a installable version of python2.4-gnome2-extras ,-)
<fabbione> j^: instead of flooding the chan here, better you file a bug on the kernel, given that our new kernel maintainer is also one of the main firewire developers
<infinity> I'll ping ondrej about it, since he appears to maintain it in Debian, and he's a comaintainer of mine on other stuff.
<infinity> \sh : You'll get one soon enough, we just had some build snags with the cairo transition.  Bug me about it tomorrow if it's still broken, I'm off to bed right now.
<\sh> infinity: k :) sleep well :)
<infinity> \sh : The buildds may fix it before I wake up, though, I punted a bunch of stuf fback after daniels hunted down the underlying GTK build issue.
* infinity -> bed.
<daniels> sleep is for the weak
<fabbione> daniels: yo dude
<fabbione> infinity: can you stay awake 2 more minutes?
<daniels> yo bella
<hunger> fabbione: are the restricted modules supposed to work now?
<fabbione> hunger: i am not restriceted modules maintainer
<fabbione> and i don't use them..
<fabbione> so i don't know...
<mjg59> hunger: What failure are you getting?
<fabbione> daniels, infinity: quick chat?
<infinity> fabbione : Meh, be quick.  I have a girlfriend who's far more important than you.
<fabbione> infinity: pretty quick.. less than 2 minutes :)
<hunger> mjg59: Missing symbols trying to load ath_pci.
<hunger> fabbione: Sorry...
<{Seb}> the latest breezy kernel has screwed up my laptop totally
<\sh> hmm...
<daniels> fabbione: mmm?
<{Seb}> when it boots up, it says "Unable to find volume group "hda1"
<fabbione> {Seb}: let me guess.. it can't mount the root filesystem
<{Seb}> "Alert! /dev/hda1 does not exist"
<{Seb}> yeh fabbione - known bug?
<fabbione> {Seb}: Package: INITRAMFS
<fabbione> the kernel is good
<mjg59> hunger: Which symbols?
<{Seb}> fabbione: the package is broken?
<hunger> {Seb}: I see the same with sda1... but that is since the splash thingy got in...
<{Seb}> fabbione: or i need a newer version
<mjg59> {Seb}: That's not the kernel's fault
<mjg59> Nor is it usplash's
<fabbione> {Seb}: i think newer is enough...
<mjg59> They just both happen to coincide with the change to initramfs
<fabbione> {Seb}: install the newer, reinstall the kernel
<{Seb}> fabbione: install the newer? newer what?
<hunger> mjg59: "Error inserting ath_rate_onoe (/lib/modules/2.6.12-7-686/madwifi/ath_rate_onoe.ko): Invalid module format" is probably the root cause of the missing symbols.
<fabbione> {Seb}: initramfs
<fabbione> and reinstall the kernel to regenerate the initrf
<fabbione> initrd
<{Seb}> thanks fabbione :-)
<karim__> I installed mplayer-g4 on ppc but there is no binary !!!
<karim__> is it normal ?
<eruin> is this normal on breezy bootup? "error inserting /lib/modules/2.6.12-7-686/kernel/drivers/video/console/tileblit.ko: -1 file exists"
<{Seb}> fabbione: is the package called initramfs?
<fabbione> yes
* fabbione goes back to enjoy the end of the weekend
<slomo> fabbione: are sure? there is no package with that name here... but there is initramfs-tools, don't know whether that's the correct one but anyways...
<{Seb}> fabbione: same here
<fabbione> yeah initramfs-tools
<{Seb}> initramfs-tools is already newest version
<fabbione> whatever
<fabbione> that one
<fabbione> if you still have problems after reinstalling the kernel, call jbailey for help
<{Seb}> will do fabbione
<{Seb}> have a good time :-)
<fabbione> thanks
<fabbione> oh btw..
<fabbione> start to make some mental notes...
<fabbione> i am not kernel maintainer anymore .. 7.11 was my last upload... :)
<{Seb}> what are you doing now?
* fabbione goes to get extremely drunk
<jsgotangco> lol
<fabbione> {Seb}: getting drunk.. a lot :)
<jbailey> fabbione: Sounds like a great idea =)
<fabbione> jbailey: hey dude!
<{Seb}> i meant ubuntu wise ;-)
<jsgotangco> i got drunk myself a few minutes ago..i need to sleep (1am)
<jbailey> fabbione: Heya.
<fabbione> {Seb}: ubuntu wise, i will make that everybody will be heavily drunk the release day
<fabbione> make + sure
<{Seb}> sounds good
<fabbione> lesson number 1:
<fabbione> - you are not supposed to be on IRC on a sunday evening -
* fabbione obbeys
* fabbione &
<daniels> fabbione: especially not at 0320.
<jsgotangco> daniels: its already monday
<daniels> yes
<{Seb}> jabeiley: can you help me with the kernel problem
<{Seb}> jbailey: the error is it can't find /dev/hda1
<{Seb}> jbailey: i have the latest initramfs-tools
<{Seb}> jbailey: and there are losts of errors reguarding interesting kernel modules
<jbailey> {Seb}: You're probably just missing a kernel module in the initramfs-tools
<jbailey> Do you know which one you need for your harddrive?
<{Seb}> jbailey: pass
<{Seb}> jbailey: i can get in on an older kernel - shall i try reconfiguring the kernel as fabbione suggested?
<karim__> is there a way to use distcc with dpkg-build ?
<jbailey> pass?
<jbailey> {Seb}: What arch are you on?
<{Seb}> intel x86
<jbailey> {Seb}: I don't see a kernel module named 'pass', are you sure?
<{Seb}> no! when i said pass, i meant i don't know
<jbailey> Oh.
<jbailey> Can you reboot to a working kernel so we can check, please?
<{Seb}> yes
<{Seb}> i'm on it now
<jbailey> {Seb}: Please /msg me the output from lsmod
<{Seb}> jbailey: is ther something you are looking for? i would be here all night
<jbailey> Oh, you're not in X?
<{Seb}> no
<jbailey> {Seb}: lsmod | grep ^ide_code
<jbailey> {Seb}: Might have everything I need in it.
<karim__> hey
<karim__> I am looking the rule file for the thing I want to compile
<karim__> the make command is $MAKE
<karim__> the make command is $(MAKE)
<karim__> what is it ?
<mjg59> Hurrah. ACPI is beaten.
<mjg59> daniels: What's the best way to autoconfig tablet PCs?
<mjg59> daniels: (Assume that I can provide you with something that unambiguously identifies the machine as a tablet PC)
<\sh> k...I don't make it this evening...after working 16 hours in 2 days while it was weekend...I'm going to bed
<\sh> tomorrow more...
<siretart> \sh_away: very good idea
<j^> tseng just did a test here with static ips and its was indeed broken, a new packages that also works with static ips configured in /e/n/i is at http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy
<daniels> mjg59: in terms of wacom and shit? just plug it into dexconf a la synaptics
<mjg59> daniels: Rock
<mjg59> daniels: I'll take a look at that, then
<mjg59> daniels: Is dexconf packaged separately from the entirity of X?
<mjg59> URGH.
<mjg59> The wacom_acpi driver is ENTIRELY POINTLESS
<daniels> mjg59: dexconf is just in the xorg source package
<mjg59> daniels: I need to download the source to X? Goddamnit.
<daniels> mjg59: 
<daniels> xorg (6.9.99.0-1) breezy; urgency=low
<daniels>   * The 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Beats?' release.
<daniels>     + ... in which a once-mighty monolith is cut down to only a couple of
<daniels>       metapackages.
<mjg59> daniels: Hurrah!
<daniels> mjg59: there is nothing more mindblowingly shit than sitting on the couch at 0416 on monday morning writing debian/copyright files for every single video driver in the modular release
<mjg59> daniels: I envy your life
<mjg59> daniels: No, hang on...
<daniels> mjg59: INTENSE
<daniels> bed
<ogra_ltsp> mdz, ping
<mdz> ogra_ltsp: pong
<tseng> j^: great, thanks
<ogra_ltsp> mdz, is there any way to force the timezone setting from the server to the client ? i can only get UTC time for the login screen
<ogra_ltsp> mdz, i guess ltsp-build-client should read it from the server while setting up the client environment and run tzconfig...
<mdz> ogra_ltsp: o python-pysqlite2: python-pysqlite2 python2.4-pysqlite2
<mdz>    [Reverse-Depends: gcompris, python-pysqlite2] 
<mdz> ogra_ltsp: (from http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt)
<ogra_ltsp> mdz, yes, i recognized it today, sorry, i already mailed pitti if he can review the report with higher prio... i missed that one ...
<ogra_ltsp> the gcompris-sound packages are added to the seed already....
<ogra_ltsp> (that was based on my wrong assumption that seeds have source package names in them)
<ogra_ltsp> s/have/can have
<mistik1> good day
<mistik1> for the purpose of research can someone running ubuntu please verify that the file /etc/ubuntu_version exist in ubuntu releases and is not a symlink?
<Mithrandir> it doesn't
<Mithrandir> use the output of lsb_release -i -s instead.
<mistik1> In that case, Is there a failsafe way to detect if we are running on ubuntu, vs debian?
<mistik1> thank you
<mistik1> can you give me the output of that command. Please?
<Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > lsb_release -i -s
<Mithrandir> Ubuntu
<mistik1> lovely
<mistik1> ubuntu was just added to the distro support list of my script ;-)
<mistik1> thanks again
<SloMoSnail> mistik1: what script?
<mistik1> to install qmail with the Bill Shupp series of patches along with webmail, spam+antivirus filters(smtp level), web admin, and a frontend webpage.
<mistik1> Btw: I assume lsb_release is also available on debian?
<Mithrandir> yes, in the lsb-release package
<mistik1> installed by default?
<Mithrandir> I don't think so.  Maybe
<mistik1> ok, I'll keep the /etc/debian_version for compat sake then
<Mez> mdz: ping
<lathiat> seb128, daniels: libgtk2.0-dev needs to dep on libxrandr-dev, libxinerama-dev, libxcursor-dev, libxfixes-dev
<lathiat> seb128, daniels: or whatever to fix that it wants those for pkg-config
<seb128> lathiat: already reported to bugzilla, already marked as PENDINGUPLOAD, waiting for 2.8.1
<lathiat> seb128: ok cool
<Simira> *installing colony3*
<pitti> Hi
<pitti> Moin ogra, still writing MI reports? :-)
<pitti> Hi BenC 
<ogra> pitti, hopefully the last one...
<ogra> :/
<sedak> ping seb128
<seb128> pong?
<sedak> hello
<seb128> hi
<sedak> are you the maintainer of libgtk2.0-dev ?
<sedak> i'm quite new here ...
<seb128> right
<sedak> i think it depends on libxfixes-dev
<seb128> <seb128> lathiat: already reported to bugzilla, already marked as PENDINGUPLOAD, waiting for 2.8.1
<sedak> look at gdk-2.0.pc
<seb128> I know thanks
<seb128> as stated by bugzilla
<sedak> sorry
<sedak> then
<seb128> no need to be sorry
<sedak> i just noticed ...
<seb128> thanks for pointing it :)
<sedak> no need to thank me ...
<sedak> :-)
<ajmitch> morning
<ogra> seb128,     import xlib
<ogra> ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/sabayon/xlib.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<ogra> sabayon ^^^
<seb128> ogra: what version ?
<ogra> current amd64, updatetd today
<seb128> what version is that?
<seb128> dpkg -l 
<ogra> heh, i shouldnt run dpkg -l on rookery
<ogra> ogra@honk:~ $ dpkg -l |grep sabayon
<ogra> ii  sabayon                                         2.11.90-0ubuntu4
<seb128> dpkg -l <package>
<seb128> it's outdated
<ogra> oh
<seb128> the issue is fixed with the next revision
<ogra> its that latest i can get here....
* ogra looks at the buildlogs
<ogra> hmmm....
<seb128> it has built according to the logs
<ogra> yup
<ogra> works now (with a smalll error about not finding "gnome X session")
<ogra> seb128, any idea why i cant get sabayon to run over ltsp ? i only get a black embedded window... xnest doesnt seem to like ssh tunneled displays
<seb128> nop
<seb128> doesn't xnest work?
<ogra> locally it does... i didnt dig further with ltsp... it just stayed black... i'll do more tests tomorrow
#ubuntu-devel 2005-08-27
<martinald> hi guys
<martinald> quick question: will breezy be using a standard clearlooks theme or a modified one?
<martinald> the*
<martinald> anyone?
<martinald> hm - looking at the OSdir screenshot tour it seems that a modified one is being used. why?
<tseng> because ubuntu branding has always been brown
<tseng> we had brown industrial theme before
<martinald> but gnome has asked that distros use a standard one, and it really reduces consistency across the linux desktop
<tseng> meh
<tseng> its the same theme
<tseng> with a different color
<martinald> well not only is it a fairly disgusting colour (IMO) it will make documentation a lot harder
<seb128> how/where/when GNOME has asked that?
<bob2> how does it make documentation harder?
<bob2> (not that I use the default theme anyway)
<martinald> http://www.gnome.org/~davyd/gnome-2-12/
<mjg59> martinald: The theme is consistent, merely a different colour
<martinald> "All of the screenshots have been done in Clearlooks. A theme that we hope will be the default choice of every GNOME vendor, giving GNOME a unified face, no matter which vendor you choose.
<martinald> "
<tseng> great, case closed then
<tseng> we are using Clearlooks
<tseng> davyd doesnt speak for "GNOME" either.
<seb128> martinald: a page doesn't make "GNOME" opinion, and as stated Ubuntu uses clearlooks
<martinald> the problem for the documentation team is that we need to take screenshots inside ubuntu
<martinald> instead of being able to save time by using gnome/other distros who use clearlooks standard
<mjg59> martinald: Which documentation team? The Ubuntu one or the Gnome one?
<martinald> well, both. the ubuntu one primarily
<tseng> why would the ubuntu doc team take screenshots of some other distro
<martinald> no, let's say on gnome.org there is a screenshot of xyz feature
<martinald> the docu team could just copy and paste that into the documenation for ubuntu
<martinald> but because of the colour of the theme, they must find it in ubuntu and take it
<martinald> and same for other distros - if they all used the same colour scheme it would be much easier to pool documentation resources
<martinald> i don't see the advantage ubuntu gains from using its own colour scheme but there are some fairly major downsides
<tseng> youve come up with one disadvantage to a very small group of people
<tseng> but ok.
<mjg59> martinald: Yes, in an ideal world that would be how things work
<martinald> 'a very small group of people', great, no wonder they are very small when they are belittled like that
<mjg59> martinald: But distributions seek to distinguish themselves for one another. Colour is an important part of branding
<mjg59> This is reality.
<martinald> why do they need to though!?
<mjg59> martinald: So that it's recognisable that people are using their distribution
<martinald> it's stupidity
<mjg59> martinald: No, it's the way the world works
<lifeless> martinald: that will convince people
<martinald> well sorry, but it is
<lifeless> martinald: 'hey you disagree, you STUPID'
<martinald> i'd expect that from microsoft or apple
<bob2> good to bring it up 10 days before preview freeze, too
<bob2> after it's been like that for 5 months
<mjg59> martinald: You may personally disagree, but that's not going to result in people changing their minds
<lifeless> bob2: what baz is in breezy at the moment? 
<seb128> martinald: you can say the same about having different distros, why not getting everybody working on 1 distro ... no issue
<martinald> seb: because there are different markets and audiences to aim at
<seb128> probably not the same amount of market as the number of distro
<martinald> no of course not
<bob2> lifeless: 1.4.2-1
<martinald> but ubuntu is not going to go away any time soon
<mjg59> martinald: And choosing different branding is one way of appealing to different audiences
<martinald> ok, straw poll, how many people here use the default ubuntu theme?
<martinald> i don't. the first thing i do is change theme and desktop image
<seb128> you are not on the right place to ask that
<martinald> please just answer the question
<mjg59> martinald: Oddly enough, I do. And I'm mostly running Debian.
<mjg59> martinald: Please stop being such a cock
<mjg59> martinald: You've already encouraged people to behave in a defensive manner. The people you are talking to here are not the people that make that decision. 
<martinald> who are then?
<mjg59> martinald: The appropriate forum to discuss a change like this would probably be the technical board
<martinald> and i can find them at?
<mjg59> martinald: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/techboard
<lathiat> Morning peoples
<mjg59> martinald: It's one of the set of things that is defined by the distribution rather than any individual maintainer
<martinald> ok, i'll submit it for the agenda
<seb128> good, that's the right way to get an official reply on that
<martinald> i don't think i will be able to get to the meeting though, but i'll try my best
<seb128> there is a meeting every 2 week
<mjg59> martinald: However, it's unlikely to change before release. So the Ubuntu doc team should not depend on that.
<tseng> if no one is going to show up to represent the topic, it will probably be passed on to a later date
<martinald> yes but it's at 7PM and  i will most likely be coming back from work
<martinald> but i shall try
<tseng> it would also be good to list your objections on the wiki
<mjg59> martinald: If you can't make it, then there's no problem with sending someone else to represent the position
<martinald> anyone want to represent my position here?
<tseng> so that people can come up with a rational reply instead of being forced on the defensive
<tseng> about things being disgusting et al
<mjg59> But yes, as tseng says having a page that lists the objections makes it a lot more likely that it will be considered reasonably
<martinald> oki
<martinald> ok
<martinald> is anyone attending the meeting and would like to put my PoV across if i put a page on the wiki and can't turn up myself?
<jdub> ahr!
<tseng> pants!
<martinald> i'll take that as a no then
* jdub feels refreshed after a weekend away
<SloMoSnail> martinald: and it's clearly a matter of taste if someone likes the standard ubuntu theme or something else... i don't think you can get an objective discussion about such things ;) and you can't find something that is the perfect solution for everyone...
<martinald> ignore the part about taste, i shouldn't of said that
<lathiat> jdub: ahr! http://www.bur.st/~lathiat/avahi/announcement-0.1 hot off the press
<martinald> but my points about pooling of documenation and consistency across the gnome desktops remains
<tseng> lathiat: guten tag!
<jdub> lathiat: oooh!
<lathiat> QaplaH! :)
<tseng> too bad about preview freeze
<lathiat> yeh
<lathiat> whinge
<tseng> mdns me
<mjg59> lathiat: Love
<jdub> martinald: well, the good thing is that the theme engine ought to be consistent across most distros after 2.12
<SloMoSnail> martinald: and that's imho a valid point... but nothing that critical... it isn't that hard to do screenshots of something
<lathiat> mjg59: :)
<jdub> (blender is in main?!)
<tseng> quite.
<luis_> SloMoSnail: it isn't that *hard*, but it is boring and very time consuming, esp. across something as large as the gnome docs
<martinald> well if i want to document a feature for ubuntu, i have to make sure i'm on the right release so that gnome has it, take a screenshot, crop it, then document it
<martinald> and for example, if you are like me and use stable ubuntu i can't take a screenshot of the feature because i don't have it but i can document it easy enough
<mjg59> martinald: There's no guarantee that any given feature in Ubuntu works identically to the one in Gnome, anyway
<mjg59> Yes, it sucks. But.
<martinald> well i agree, but it's extremely likely and it lets us get a start on it. if it isn't the case for the 1% of stuff that doesn't look the same, then we can rescreenshot those
<jdub> lathiat: nice contributor list :-))
<jdub> lathiat: looks like avahi may get a place on the 770 ;-)))
<lathiat> jdub: how is it nice? :)
<jdub> lathiat: which would be an EXTREMELY good direction
<lathiat> jdub: yeh, we had some nokia interest previously
<lathiat> i CCd the guy who contacted me with the release announcement
<lathiat> havent heard from them for a bit
<lathiat> they wanted a DBUS APi
<lathiat> which we now have so
<tseng> looks like gnome 2.14 will be full of zeroconf love
* mjg59 wants zeroconf over IM
<martinald> iChat AV has that and it's extremely cool
<mjg59> People ought to be able to set up IP tunnels via IM
<tseng> exploits to that would be evil
<SloMoSnail> tseng: where did you find the 2.14 plans? :)
<mjg59> So files can be transferred sensibly, rather than layered in bizarre protocols on top of other bizarre protocols
<Robot101> mjg59: shh :P
<tseng> SloMoSnail: I ate jdub's brain
<Robot101> mjg59: it's on my todo list :)
<mjg59> Robot101: Haha
<jdub> lathiat: congratulations :-)
<HrdwrBoB> introduce http tunnelling as a standard feature, see how many people start screaming
<bob2> lifeless: do you want a 1.5 snapshot in there?
<SloMoSnail> tseng: lol... how does it taste? ;) what other thoughts regarding gnome did you find? ;)
<lathiat> jdub: thanks :)
<tseng> SloMoSnail: not as bad as most of the food in .au
<Robot101> is gamin unbuggy now?
<tseng> they even make cheeseburgers funny
<tseng> Robot101: it doesnt totally suck, if thats what you mean
<mjg59> Nobody's responded to my "They don't want Bruce on the committee because he's a whiny git" mail yet
<SloMoSnail> Robot101: definitely not... the latest version in breezy consumed ~120 mb for me ;)
<luis_> tseng: if you didn't like .au food, that is because you ate at the wrong places :)
<luis_> krissa and I had some spectacular meals in .au
<luis_> granted several were stupidly expensive
<tseng> the only place that was really great was hibachi
<luis_> but even some of the cheap ones were very good
<luis_> gah.
* luis_ wonders why typing in gedit is taking up ~100% CPU
<wasabi> gam_server is causing me loads of problems.
<wasabi> it hits 100% cpu all the time.
<wasabi> and stays there
<lifeless> evolution ate my gpg pubring
<lifeless> I blame evo
<lathiat> just hope it doesnt eat your secret ring
<lifeless> it didn't
<lifeless> I think it started a request, and then killed the process when it switched away from looking at the signed email, while gpg was going a trustdb rebuild
<lifeless> it ended up with a blank keyring :[
<bob2> someting in hoary keeps eating my puring
<bob2> er, pubring
<lifeless> oh ?
<lifeless> do you use evo ?
<lifeless> do you have automatic trust db updates on or off ?
<bob2> mutt, and I have it turned off
<bob2> well, no-auto-check-trustdb, anyway
<LinuxJones> Will the GUI based installer make it into Breezy ?
<mjg59> LinuxJones: Unlikely
<LinuxJones> mjg59, It probably won't make it into Grumpy either I guess :D
<lathiat> mjg59: bah, new grub ate my boot process
<TerminX> which version of grub is that?  haven't rebooted in 18 days..
<mjg59> lathiat: Hm
<lathiat> mjg59: "GRUB "
<mjg59> lathiat: I think this isn't the new grub, but is in fact something to do with the manual installation
<mjg59> TerminX: Grub doesn't get upgraded automatically
<lathiat> mjg59: well ive done that before and it worked fine?
<mjg59> lathiat: with grub-install?
<mjg59> Gngh. That's more interesting.
<TerminX> oh, yeah, right, duh
<lathiat> mjg59: yeh i did grub-install /dev/hda
<mjg59> Hang on. Let me try to reproduce.
<sjmorgan> i know this isn't strictly the place to ask but could somebody please help me with a grub problem i'm having? i've tried #ubuntu, #grub and read god knows how many forum posts where people ask the same question and get nowhere and i'm still no further forward
<bob2>  /topic
<bob2> also, that's not true, you've moved forward
<sjmorgan> no i haven't
<bob2> you were at "cannot boot at all", now you're at "using a livecd, I can't use grub-install due to $blah"
<sjmorgan> man
<sjmorgan> how the hell do you think i asked the initial question?
<sjmorgan> i've been using a livecd the whole time
<jdub> mjg59: around?
<bob2> but you didn't seem to know to run grub-install to begin with
<sjmorgan> yeah, i did
<sjmorgan> the only thing i didn't know about was chroot, but that doesn't seem to have helped
<mjg59> jdub: Hi
<jdub> yo!
<sjmorgan> grub-install /dev/sda1 just spits out (yet another) error at me
<jdub> mjg59: so i don't actively use my ir port, but want to provide you with the info
<jdub> mjg59: i don't seem to have any irda drivers loaded, i don't think
<mjg59> jdub: Rock
<sjmorgan> so i'm getting the distinct sensation one would get whilst smashing their head against a brick wall
<jdub> (i assume that's because they're not autoconfigured)
<mjg59> jdub: Can you stick up cat /sys/bus/pnp/devices/*/id somewhere?
<jdub> yeah, in the email i'm sending
<sjmorgan> i've tried running grub from a shell and feeding it commands but just get even more errors
<mjg59> lathiat: Oh, that's interesting. Yes, it's broken here too.
<mjg59> Hmm.
<lathiat> mjg59: used grub install off hoary and works good now
<lathiat> sjmorgan: why dont you try lilo
<sjmorgan> because grub was working before
<lathiat> so install it off a hoary livecd, mount your rootfs on /media then apt-get install grub; grub-install --root-directory=/media /dev/sda (or hda or whatever)
<sjmorgan> i converted some partitions to logical and understandably grub is a touch confused, i'd just like to know how to rectify the situation
<lathiat> bah
* jdub wishes we had a good, simple "fix grub" solution
<lathiat> 'format'
<sjmorgan> hrmm
<sjmorgan> that actually seemed to work
<mjg59> http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1703&Itemid=0&limit=1&limitstart=1 - sounds familiar
<sjmorgan> whenever i did grub-install before it would get all pissy
<sjmorgan> probably cause i was doing it from within a chroot
<Burgundavia> oh the world of pain --> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=58828
<mjg59> jdub: Ok. Can you work out which directory in /sys/bus/pnp/devices contains the id line "NSC6001"?
<sjmorgan> ok so is the device.map file that grub-install generates exactly how grub sees the hard drives as being mapped?
<sjmorgan> i.e. if it says hd2 is /dev/sda that's what i should specify as the groot in menu.lst
<jdub> $ cat /sys/bus/pnp/devices/00:08/id
<jdub> NSC6001
<mjg59> Ok. Can you cat /sys/bus/pnp/devices/00:08/resources ?
<jdub> state = active
<jdub> io 0x2f8-0x2ff
<jdub> irq 3
<jdub> dma 3
<mjg59> Ok. Can you sudo setserial /dev/ttyS1 uart none
<mjg59> sudo modprobe nsc-ircc
<jdub> heh, no setserial
<mjg59> Ah. You'll need that one.
<jdub> hrm, give me a few minutes, in the middle of an update
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> jdub: How's the artwork going?
<jdub> been away for the weekend :-)
* luis_ didn't know that *anyone* on any platform used IR
<luis_> s/platform/OS/
<Burgundavia> mjg59, what sort of art for the usplash do you need?
<mjg59> Burgundavia: It's being worked on, I'm told
<sjmorgan> who was it who sugested grub-install --root-directory?
<sjmorgan> i want to kiss them
<Burgundavia> mjg59, if you run out of time, mail me. I can something hackish done is about 30 minutes (thanks to ogra packaging the ubuntu font)
<lathiat> that was me
<lathiat> next time, read grub-install --help. :)
<sjmorgan> i did
<sjmorgan> along with a ton of other stuff
<jdub> Burgundavia: it's a particularly hard piece of artwork, given the restrictions (we have something hackish already - reboot and see!)
<sjmorgan> it was the fact i was doing it in a chroot i think
<Burgundavia> jdub, yes
<mjg59> Can grub run off a usb stick?
<sjmorgan> but nothing i read indicated that it wouldn't work
<Burgundavia> jdub, with inkscape I can export to whatever dimension I like
<jdub> Burgundavia: dimension is not the challenge
<Burgundavia> jdub, you need 16 colour too eh?
<lathiat> mmm 16 bit
<lathiat> err
<lathiat> bah
<jdub> 4 bit :-)
<lathiat> 16 colours. :)
<opi> GRUB logo? ;)
<jdub> opi: usplash
<opi> right :-)
<sjmorgan> if there was such a thing as an effigy of grub, i would be stabbing it right now
<Burgundavia> mjg59, is it useful for this ir stuff (and other stuff you ask for) to go the list or just to you?
<mjg59> Burgundavia: Either is fine, but doing it via IRC is better
<Burgundavia> mjg59, ok
<jdub> mjg59: so does this end up being a check-all-driver-examples thing, or something you can programatically deduce, once you grok the patterns?
<mjg59> jdub: In theory the PNP information gives us everything we want to know
<mjg59> But I don't have many machines with IR, so I want to check
<sjmorgan> thanks again lathiat, i appreciate it
<jdub> hrm, perhaps we should give some IR love to nautilus-sendto after this :-)
<Burgundavia> finally we get an Avahi release
<mjg59> Oh man.
<mjg59> Now I need to get grub installed to USB mass storage.
<mjg59> This will be pain.
<Burgundavia> mjg59, is there any way to prettify the resume dialog?
<mjg59> Burgundavia: Which one?
<Burgundavia> mjg59, the one that has 5 lines of text, then switches to grey then the xscreensaver login screen
<mjg59> Burgundavia: Not trivially
<Burgundavia> mjg59, breezy+1 then, ok
<mjg59> Right, there we go. I can boot off USB.
<mjg59> Now to investigate this grub thing...
<luis_> booting ubuntu off usb? cool.
<mjg59> Well, I'm not doing the entire OS. But it would be easy enough.
<jdub> luis_: casper works on usb :-)
<jdub> (though it's quite chunky for doing that)
<luis_> huh
<luis_> eenteresting
<luis_> did not know.
<Diablo-D3> grarghn
<Diablo-D3> imagine simpsons in your head
<Diablo-D3> where homer is choking bart
<Diablo-D3> except Im homer, and X is bart.
<Diablo-D3> so, is it normal for X to completely unwork in Breezy?
<luis_> see, but, in the simpsons, bart always survives
<luis_> and in breezy, X... not so much always with the surviving.
<luis_> more like kenny in South Park
<luis_> daniels always manages to revive it for the next episode
<Diablo-D3> omg, breezy killed X, you bastard!
<luis_> but in the current episode, it is always dying a spectacularly and interesting death
<luis_> s/ly//
<Diablo-D3> hehehe
<Diablo-D3> hrm
<Diablo-D3> do I absolutely /need/ xserver-xorg installed?
<Diablo-D3> I have xserver-xorg-core and -driver-savage and -input-{kbd, mouse}
<mjg59> Hmm. Ok, so I've found the grub problem.
<mjg59> No idea why it does it, though.
<TerminX> Diablo-D3: no, you don't need it
<Diablo-D3> okay, so thats not it.
<Diablo-D3> er
<Diablo-D3> oh
<TerminX> what problem are you having?
<Diablo-D3> goddamnit! >_<
<Diablo-D3> I bet I know what it is
<Diablo-D3> I have synaptic setup in my xorg.conf
<Diablo-D3> but I dont have xorg-synaptic installed because it hasnt been converted to the new world
<TerminX> you mean xorg-driver-synaptics?
<Diablo-D3> er yeah
<Diablo-D3> it still requires xorg-xserver and shit
<TerminX> you mean xserver-xorg
<Diablo-D3> argh
<Diablo-D3> yes
<Diablo-D3> sorry, today's cup of coffee hasnt reached my brain yet
<TerminX> :p
<Diablo-D3> fek
<Diablo-D3> gaim is crashhappy now
<TerminX> uhhh...
<TerminX> wtf
<TerminX> in gedit, got *** glibc detected *** malloc(): memory corruption: 0x0845d880 *** in terminal
<Diablo-D3> and I cant upgrade it to the newest package because it requires cario1
<mjg59> Arse. Now I'm *really* confused.
* Diablo-D3 just randomly upgrades packages in the mean time
<lathiat> how come morgue.ubuntu.com isnt updated anymore?
<Diablo-D3> because nothing dies?
<luis_> disk space problems, someone said yesterday
<lathiat> luis_: ah
* jdub is not entirely surprised ;)
<jdub> we go through a *lot* of revisions
<Burgundavia> 52 previous versions of xorg?
* Diablo-D3 snickers
<Diablo-D3> wtf
<Diablo-D3> something isnt right here
<Diablo-D3> I have the synaptics stuff commented out
<Diablo-D3> so why the fuck is it still trying to use it?
<daniels> because it's still in the ServerLayout section
<Diablo-D3> nope its not
<Diablo-D3> thats commented out to
<daniels> then maybe you could be more specific and do something like provide a /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<Diablo-D3> # is the comment character, right?
<daniels> yes
<Diablo-D3> (**) |-->Input Device "Configured Mouse"
<Diablo-D3> (**) |-->Input Device "Synaptics Touchpad"
<Diablo-D3> but
<Diablo-D3> #Section "InputDevice"
<Diablo-D3> #        Identifier      "Synaptics Touchpad"
<Diablo-D3> and
<Diablo-D3>         #InputDevice    "Synaptics Touchpad"
<Diablo-D3> (II) LoadModule: "synaptics"
<Diablo-D3> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/input/synaptics_drv.o
<Diablo-D3> (II) Module synaptics: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
<Diablo-D3>         compiled for 4.2.0, module version = 1.0.0
<Diablo-D3>         Module class: XFree86 XInput Driver
<Diablo-D3>         ABI class: XFree86 XInput driver, version 0.3
<Diablo-D3> now I'm really confused.
<Diablo-D3> I dont have the synaptics driver installed, so where is it getting it from?
<Diablo-D3> I've never had xfree86 4.2.0 installed on this box either
<daniels> i'd say it's getting it from /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/input/synaptics_drv.o
<Diablo-D3> but such a file cant exist
<daniels> as opposed to just making it up.  as for the paste, next time don't flood, use a pastebin or just put it up somewhere.
<daniels> okay, you're right, the X server is absolutely juts making it up.
<lathiat> daniels: are you aware of cases of autodetection of resolution/sync failing where it worked on hoary? 
<daniels> please seek further help in #ubuntu.
<Diablo-D3> [diablo@absolute /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/input] $ ls
<Diablo-D3> kbd_drv.o  mouse_drv.o
<daniels> lathiat: no
<Diablo-D3> daniels: yup, its making it up.
<lathiat> daniels: ok i'll file more bugs then, i've got an open bug about my laptop tho
<lathiat> daniels: which still applies
<daniels> lathiat: except I saw a bug from you in nv in passing
<daniels> lathiat: right
<lathiat> had it on another laptop which is s3 savage
<mjg59> Ah! Got it
<mjg59> jdub: Ping?
<Diablo-D3> ...
<Diablo-D3> daniels: I figured it out
<Diablo-D3> for some reason X wasnt writing it's log
<Diablo-D3> so that log was outdated, back to when I actually was using the synaptics touchpad driver
<jdub> mjg59: pong
<mjg59> jdub: Had a chance to install setserial, or are you still downloading?
<mjg59> lathiat: Still around? I have a grub for you
<lathiat> mjg59: yep
<mjg59> lathiat: Hang on, just building a deb
<mjg59> Then I just need to check it on the machine that the patch was to fix in the first place...
<lathiat> mjg59: heh
<mjg59> (Ironically it worked fine there, due to a quirk of the x86 architecture)
<Burgundavia> daniels, can https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13214 be closed as glxinfo is now in mesa-utils? (which probably should be installed by default)
<mjg59> Ok, that seems to work
<mjg59> lathiat: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/tmp/grub_0.95+cvs20040624-17ubuntu6_i386.deb
<mjg59> lathiat: If you could give that a go and let me know if it works, I'll upload it
<lathiat> mjg59: ok
<daniels> Burgundavia: it's growing a dependency on mesa-utils in 6.9.99.0-1
<lathiat> mjg59: this better not break ;p
<mjg59> lathiat: Yeah, if it does I don't get to go to bed yet...
* lathiat be back .. hopefully in a couple. :)
<Burgundavia> daniels, should I then close the bug or change it to "mesa-utils needs to be installed for glxinfo"?
<daniels> Burgundavia: mmm, might as well just PENDINGUPLOAD it
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> daniels, done
<daniels> ta
<lathiat> mjg59: \o/
<mjg59> lathiat: Success?
<lathiat> mjg59: yep
<lathiat> works fine
<mjg59> lathiat: Rock. I'll upload that now.
<lathiat> mjg59: question, any idea why when the kernel starts it now takes like 5-10 seconds to continue booting? (i think its an initramfs thing?)
<lathiat> also, is usplash supposed to disappear after a short time?
<infinity> mjg59 : Say, do you have a copy of culchie that isn't on codon.org.uk (which appears to be nonexistant...)
<mjg59> infinity: Oh, good question. I'll try to get that machine up tomorrow - still haven't sorted all the networking here
<mjg59> infinity: Ok, uploaded
<jdub> mjg59: doing massive mirror sync atm, so can't actually update
<jdub> maybe i'll pull setserial directly
<mjg59> jdub: Ok, no problem
<jdub> mjg59: ok, done the setserial and modprobe
<jdub> [4311698.792000]  NET: Registered protocol family 23
<jdub> [4311698.797000]  nsc-ircc, Found chip at base=0x02e
<jdub> [4311698.797000]  nsc-ircc, driver loaded (Dag Brattli)
<jdub> [4311698.799000]  IrDA: Registered device irda0
<jdub> [4311698.799000]  nsc-ircc, Found dongle: Differential serial interface
<jdub> [4311698.799000]  nsc_ircc_init_dongle_interface(), Differential serial interface not defined by irda yet
<jdub> 
<jdub> btw, do you know what these are:
<jdub> [4311622.804000]  ACPI: acpi_ec_space_handler: bit_width should be 8
<jdub> [4311622.806000]  ACPI: acpi_ec_space_handler: bit_width should be 8
<jdub> [4311622.808000]  ACPI: acpi_ec_space_handler: bit_width should be 8
<jdub> [4311652.809000]  ACPI: acpi_ec_space_handler: bit_width should be 8
<jdub> [4311652.811000]  ACPI: acpi_ec_space_handler: bit_width should be 8
<jdub> [4311652.812000]  ACPI: acpi_ec_space_handler: bit_width should be 8
<jdub> [4311682.814000]  ACPI: acpi_ec_space_handler: bit_width should be 8
<jdub> [4311682.816000]  ACPI: acpi_ec_space_handler: bit_width should be 8
<jdub> [4311682.818000]  ACPI: acpi_ec_space_handler: bit_width should be 8
<jdub> 
<mjg59> jdub: ACPI bitching about a bug in your DSDT
<mjg59> Should work anyway
<jdub> oh
<jdub> dsdt again
<mjg59> jdub: Hm. The "Differential
<mjg59>               serial interface not defined by irda yet"
<mjg59> bit is a bit worrying
* jdub will get kernel upgrade after this sync - yay :)
<daniels> jdub: ack, mein leben
<mjg59> jdub: Do you have any IrDA devices?
<jdub> mjg59: how do i find out? :)
<mjg59> jdub: Does your phone have IR?
<jdub> oh
<jdub> right
<jdub> yes
<mjg59> Can you switch it on and put it in front of the IR area on your laptop, wait a few seconds and then cat /proc/net/irda/discovery ?
* Diablo-D3 wonders what irda is
<lathiat> Diablo-D3: infrared
<Diablo-D3> my laptop doesnt have it =/
<jdub> don't seem to be getting anything
<daniels> mjg59: do we still need to do the kernel boot line hack for irda on the x40, or is it all good now?
<jdub> nup
<jdub> nowt
<mjg59> jdub: Oh, duh. Sorry - irattach irda0
<mjg59> daniels: Boot line hack?
<jdub> mjg59: what's irattach in?
<mjg59> irda-utils
<bob2> which module do I need for x40 irda love, anyway?
<jdub> hmm, universe
<whiprush_> wow. jdub, it was a year ago and 6 days since you invited me to "no-name-yet".
<ajmitch> jdub: needs motu love, or should be in main? :)
<jdub> whiprush_: going to launch fridge on 1 year anniversary of warty preview :-)
<mjg59> bob2: nsc-ircc with dongle_id=0x09
<whiprush_> woo
<bob2> ah, with 2.6.12
* robitaille does the little fridge dance :)
<daniels> mjg59: right, you still need to pass arguments
<mjg59> daniels: Oh, to the module? Yes. I'm trying to figure out the best approach to that.
<lathiat> jdub: we have a fridge?
<jdub> lathiat: it's more of an icebox atm
<jdub> ajmitch: with mjg59's work, it'll probably end up in main
* bob2 fondly remembers the malibu-fueled warty preview launch
<jdub> mjg59: yep, not getting squat
<lathiat> jdub: extra cool?
<jdub> lathiat: more like manual cooling atm ;)
<lathiat> haha
<lathiat> well we must have made an impression one of the apple guys subscribed to avahis ml and asked a few detailed questions. :)
<jdub> excellent :-)
<mjg59> jdub: Ok. Kill irattach, rmmod nsc-ircc, modprobe nsc-ircc dongle_id=0x09, irattach irda0
<mjg59> jdub: Oh, damnit. irattach -s, not just irattach
<mjg59> (Sorry)
<lathiat> jdub: when UK business hours start?
<jdub> oh, try without dongle_id again?
<mjg59> jdub: Yeah, one more time without dongle_id
<jdub> hmm
<jdub> aha
<jdub> nickname: T630-T628, hint: 0x9124, saddr: 0x17c75bdd, daddr: 0x7be527cf
<daniels> bob2: don't forget the coke.  mailbu is an awful-tasting horrible sweet coconut rum.
<jdub> with irattach irda0 -s
<daniels> bob2: coke is a sweet soft drink.
<daniels> bob2: TOGETHER, THEY FIGHT CRIME.
<mjg59> jdub: And without dongle_id?
<bob2> haha
<jdub> mjg59: yes, that was without
<luis_> daniels: have you seen any of the new 'bacardi and cola' ads they are running here in the US?
<mjg59> jdub: Excellent
* jdub loves the victoria's secret ads he saw
<jdub> IPEX bras
<bob2> haha
<luis_> patent pending, baby
<daniels> jdub: haha, awesome
<bob2> dodgy government outsourcers making underwear
<daniels> luis_: given I'm in .au, no ;)
<jdub> (pia worked for IPEX, which merged with Volante - IPEX is now the hardware division)
<bob2> ahhhhh
<jdub> i suggested she pass around the VS website at work :)
<jdub> enormous IPEX letters made of lights
<luis_> daniels: when I get my browser back, I'll see if I can find them
<daniels> cool
<luis_> man, fuck
<luis_> something is Not Good
<luis_> http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_bacardi.htm
<infinity> Just one something?... This has got to be an improvement.
<luis_> heh
<luis_> well
<luis_> it is a pretty spectacular something
<luis_> open new tab in epiphany (which it turns out I do all the time)
<luis_> -> 100% CPU usage by X
<mjg59> jdub: So that means that at the moment my script of love will work out of the box on your machine
<jdub> did daniels take your browser away again?
<jdub> mjg59: yay!
<jdub> mjg59: so does it leave autodetection on all the time, or...?
<bob2> so
<daniels> jdub: gtk took his browswer away
<bob2> how do I read saved form information with firefox?
<luis_> jdub: I'm not blaming daniels yet... I have a nagging feeling it is cairo or gtk
<mjg59> jdub: It tries as hard as it can to autodetect
<jdub> mjg59: sucking power at the same time?
<daniels> luis_: heh.
<mjg59> jdub: Indeed. 
<luis_> daniels: to be fair, I can't test whether or not it is 'just' a leaky/broken X, because I'm afraid to restart X ;)
<mjg59> jdub: UI for controlling that may be... interesting
<mjg59> (To be fair, the power draw of an IR chipset is pretty tiny)
<daniels> luis_: hah
<daniels> mjg59: LAPTOPPOWERMISSION
<daniels> mjg59: if we make that one a zero, we can save power and/or fight crime
<Diablo-D3> heh
<Diablo-D3> I wouldnt mind having a longer uptime.
* luis_ steals from daniels
<Diablo-D3> 2.5 hours just isnt enough.
<mjg59> daniels: Haha
<hub>  Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by Xlib <- why ? I can't google any valid answer
<daniels> hub: because you're using fr_FR and not fr_FR.UTF-8
<hub> LANG=en_CA
<hub> daniels: never assume
<daniels> hub: in any case, note that you're missing a .UTF-8
<hub> and ubuntu set it for me
<hub> so it should have told me
<daniels> err, we've been using utf-8 since hoary
<hub> well hoary never did that
<hub> and hoary picked that up
<hub> or was it warty distupgraded
<hub> maybe
<bob2> there you go
<daniels> if it's warty dist-upgraded, then you'll probably need to flick over to utf-8
<bob2> wiki.ubuntu.com/HoaryUpgradeNotes
<hub> regenerating the locales then
<daniels> in any case, i'll look at it and try to figure it out
<mjg59> mdz: grub is sorted. For my next trick I'm going to inflict irda-utils on everyone.
* hub dream of a fixed keyboard layout
<hub> crap I have to report that too
<Burgundavia> mjg59, you still going to be able to push stuff into main at this late date?
<luis_> he is mjg59
<luis_> he'll use his super powers for good instead of evil
<luis_> for once
<Burgundavia> jdub, how does the artwork freeze interact with the UI freeze?
<mjg59> Burgundavia: When it's part of a BreezyGoal, yeah
<Burgundavia> mjg59, figured as much
<lathiat> jdub: so, how do i propose to pet a zeroconf goal for breezy+1 including avahi and nss-mdns? :)
<jdub> Burgundavia: artwork doesn't include changes to code
<jdub> lathiat: write a spec on the wiki using the spec template :)
<Burgundavia> jdub, does artwork include icons and themese?
<lathiat> jdub: and when ?
<lathiat> err
<ajmitch> lathiat: get those packages ready for review! :)
<lathiat> and then
<jdub> Burgundavia: yes
<lathiat> ajmitch: yeh waiting for ross to stick his head up
<jdub> lathiat: you can do a spec any time, and it will be discussed at the developer summit in october
<Burgundavia> jdub, that means that our screenshots are going might be out of date?
<jdub> lathiat: i will back it pretty heavily :-)
<Burgundavia> jdub, lets move to -doc
<daniels> jdub: november is more accurate than october
<wasabi> Wonder what ever happened with Ape support in gstreamer.
<wasabi> Monkey Audio!
<daniels> jdub: given there's only like one day in october
<lathiat> jdub: ok, dont suppose the summit will be in australia again? :P
<jdub> lathiat: almost
<jdub> lathiat: canada :)
<lathiat> heh
<Burgundavia> montreal!
<lathiat> so who wants to give me their spare change so i can go
<AndyFitz> mjg59: ping
<crimsun> wasabi: the proverbial license issue, more than likely
<ajmitch> lathiat: start swimming!
<lathiat> ajmitch: do you think if I start now i could make it?
<wasabi> I thought that guy was going to relicense.
<ajmitch> a bit over 2 months.. yeah, if you go fast enough
<lathiat> ok, bb very later :)
<crimsun> wasabi: dilinger would probably know more about that
<jdub> daniels: i start on 26th
<daniels> jdub: hra har
* luis_ sighs, mumbles
<lathiat> daniels: what tool outputs the horizsync/vertrefresh X uses?
<mjg59> AndyFitz: Hi
<jdub> luis_: how are the 2.12 live cds faring with breezy?
<luis_> jdub: I haven't tested in a week
<luis_> jdub: they needed some love then, though we could manually provide love
<daniels> lathiat: xresprobe-ish
<AndyFitz> mjg59,  I've sent you 2 16 colour png's for usplash.  do they suit ?
<lathiat> daniels: well more to the point, what can i type to make it spit it out without makign it generate an X config? or is it not possible ?
<mjg59> AndyFitz: Ooh, pretty
<daniels> lathiat: sudo xresprobe <driver>
<lathiat> daniels: well that only tells me the resolution
<mjg59> AndyFitz: I think jdub was talking about coordinating artwork - you may want to liase with him briefly
<lathiat> daniels: is that why autodetection is failign then?
<daniels> lathiat: oh, is this the laptop?
<lathiat> daniels: yeh
<luis_> what have we come to that we use words like liase?
<luis_> stop the madness.
<lathiat> sorry should have specified
<bob2> luis_: it's ok for the English
<daniels> lathiat: then it won't spit out any at all
<daniels> lathiat: xserver-xorg.postinst will say 'ah, nv on a laptop, we should probably do sync ranges', and there's some magic voodoo shit form thereon in
<lathiat> daniels: oh, so where does it get them from then?
<luis_> bob2: if he was being English, shouldn't he have stuck in a gratuitous 'u' somewhere?
<lathiat> ah right
<luis_> artwourk or something like that?
<luis_> :)
<daniels> lathiat: it sort of makes them up
<lathiat> daniels: ah
<bob2> luis_: it was liase, not liaze, I think it's enough
<lathiat> daniels: well, its making them up wrong :)
<luis_> blah
<luis_> daniels? would it be your fault if gtk is no longer building for me with some errors about freetype headers?
<lathiat> daniels: on that savage it also gave me a list of resoltions to choose from when installing
<luis_> oh, hrm
<luis_> daniels: nm, probably
<lathiat> daniels: (is that related?)
<daniels> luis_: seb's
<daniels> lathiat: oh, it's savage, not nv
<lathiat> daniels: i had 2 cases
<lathiat> daniels: altho i just tested and my nv seems to be guessing it right again
<daniels> cool
<lathiat> do you care about the savage?
<lathiat> ahh i seem in the savage its not specifying a HorizSync/VertRefresh at all
<daniels> yeah
<lathiat> and with -phigh asks for the res
<lathiat> (it did have the right one selected tho)
<lathiat> ah wtf xresprobe wasn't installed
* lathiat wonders how that happened
<lathiat> daniels: why doesnt ubuntu-desktop dep on it?
<daniels> lathiat: it ... should ...
<infinity> It doesn't... It's only in the live seed.
<lathiat> yeh
<Diablo-D3> does anyone have a copy of libcairo1 (>= 0.6.0)?
<daniels> Diablo-D3: please take this to #ubuntu
<Diablo-D3> daniels: libcairo1 >= 0.6.0 isnt in hoary.
<daniels> Diablo-D3: 'please take this to #ubuntu'
<AndyFitz> mjg59,  its all good. there's another bloke sorting out usplash artwork
<bob2> 'Ubuntu Development (not support, even with breezy)'
<wasabi> Somehow file metadata needs to be editable from Nautilus.
<fabbione> morning
<\sh> mornin
<\sh> g
<infinity> \sh : How do you feel about transitions this morning?
<\sh> infinity: 6:53 local time...I need to go to office..but shock me
<infinity> \sh : I'm cleaning up the whole universe mesa FTBFS mess, but a little bit of help with the grunt work might be nice.
<infinity> \sh : Especially since I'm not actually an MOTU. :)
<ajmitch> infinity: sure, hit us with whatever you need
* ajmitch is finishing work for the day, got some spare time :)
<\sh> infinity: u r main :) so it's a superset of MOTU ,-)
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco 
<\sh> infinity: let me rush to office...and then lets give a go to your mesa stuff :)
<jsgotangco> hey ajmitch, hello all
<lathiat> im not the only one having gnome-panel crash every 10 minutes right?
<\sh> infinity: btw...why is libwxgtk2.6 not installable? ,-)
<\sh> lathiat: come on it's fun :)
<lathiat> not when i accidentally hit restart application
<lathiat> which causes that stupid
<lathiat> I've detected a panel already running and will now quit
<infinity> \sh : Dunno, but I just uploaded a new version.  Didn't even know the current one was broken (other than the breakage I'm fixing right now)
<lathiat> followed by gnome-session restarting it
<lathiat> which means no matter how many times i hit ok
<lathiat> it stays there
<lathiat> :)
<infinity> lathiat : It crashed a few times on me yesterday, hasn't so far today..
<lathiat> infinity: lucky!
<infinity> lathiat : I promised myself not to worry about it until seb128 gets GTK fixed and the new gnome-panel builds.
<lathiat> infinity: :) yeh
<\sh> infinity: k...ok...give me at least one hour...rushing to office, grab a coffee, put my laptops in place...and then...I will fetch a rdepend list and give it a go...
<infinity> \sh : Ping me before you start.  Coordinatoin may be nice.
<ajmitch> infinity: so what motu work are you needing done?
<\sh> infinity: sure..I told u earlier...we're there for you :)
<ajmitch> I've been behind by a few days
<\sh> so..rush to office
<mdz> \sh_away: I would not mind at all if you wanted to merge mythtv 0.18.1 into multiverse ;-)
<fabbione> elmo: friday crack reuploaded with proper copyright..
<\sh> uh moment...let me switch the computer
<dilinger> wasabi: the monkey's audio author disappeared shortly after saying he was going to relicense
<dilinger> that was over a year ago, i believe
<dilinger> i gave up expecting any sort of answer, i consider MA pretty much dead at this point
<\sh> ok...
<\sh> infinity: ping
<infinity> \sh : 'sec. :)
<\sh> infinity: take your time...I need to check our nagra system...
<\sh> brb
<brz> um.. i could be crazy, but... could someone else try running "pkg-config --help" a few times in a row and see if they get any weird output?
<infinity> brz : Wow, special.
<Burgundavia> brz, confirmed
<brz> nice. :)
<infinity> Mithrandir : ping, pkg-config is teh suck.  Try pkg-config --help a few times and watch the crazy corrupted output and segvs.
<daniels> Mithrandir: works fine on amd64, breaks on i386.
<tepsipakki> daniels: how about fixing lrm-manager in linux-restricted-modules-common (13363)? Simple fix, PATH is not set..
<daniels> tepsipakki: in good time
<tepsipakki> ok
<pitti> Morning
<fabbione> hey pitti
<\sh> back
<infinity> \sh : Alright, want to do me a favour? :)
<infinity> \sh : Check breezy-changes for everything I've been uploading recently for the xorg -> mesa GL/GLU transition, and hunt down anything that's FTBFS. :)
<Mithrandir> infinity: I know, it's a popt bug.
<Mithrandir> infinity: nobody calls pkg-config by hand anyhow, so I haven't bothered to fix it yet.
<doko> good morning
<ajmitch> morning doko 
<\sh> infinity: can do
<Mithrandir> daniels: X ate my keyboard.
<Treenaks> speaking of X.. *points at #13572*
<Treenaks> (but that's a resolution thing)
<daniels> Mithrandir: works for me
<Mithrandir> daniels: it ate it after complaining that it couldn't find a core pointer (which I have to admit was fair; my mouse was plugged into the other box)
<daniels> Mithrandir: define 'ate'
<daniels> it ingested your keyboard, and it's now useless?
<Mithrandir> yes, but it gave it back to me after I rebooted.
<Mithrandir> just a few tooth marks and stuff
<daniels> Treenaks: yeah, will check it out
<Treenaks> daniels: thanks
<daniels> Mithrandir: ... ok
<Mithrandir> daniels: (more seriously): it seemed to grab control of the keyboard completely, not even NumLock worked.
<\sh> hmm
<infinity> \sh : Oh, and if anything that build-deps on gtk+2.0 appears to be failing to build due to pkg-config or linking issues, just make a note of it and give me the list after seb128 fixed GTK.
<infinity> s/fixed/fixes/
<\sh> xorg + synaptic touchpad + usb mouse + mousewheel works after coming up normally...when I'm unplugging the usb mouse, and replugging the mouse it doesn't work anymore..and yes zaxismapping is configured
<\sh> infinity: sure :)
<ajmitch> \sh: care for any build help?
<\sh> infinity: something like wxwidgets2.6, right?
<\sh> ajmitch: fire 
<infinity> \sh : wxwidgets may well be the sort of failure I'm looking for, yes.  Also, look at hoe gnome-panel fails currently, you may see that.
<daniels> Mithrandir: ... cool.
<infinity> \sh : But, more to the point, anything that fails at all in any way dealing with gtk+2.0, just put it on a list for "later".
<daniels> \sh: it's probably PS/2 being the suck.
<infinity> \sh : When GTK is fixed, we can retry those and see if they're still broken or magically fixed.
<Mithrandir> daniels: ssh-ing into the box works fine.  Replugging the keyboard doesn't help.
<daniels> Mithrandir: bongtasmic
<\sh> daniels: the mouse is ImPS/2
<daniels> Mithrandir: that can happen sometimes, but seems to be rather random.  i've only seen it once or twice.
<daniels> \sh: right, and synaptics does stupid things with ps/2 proxies.
<Mithrandir> daniels: it's consistent across reboots here, fwiw.
<\sh> infinity: i will take notes 
<daniels> Mithrandir: tags -1 + unreproducible
<\sh> infinity: how many packages actually for universe? 
<Mithrandir> daniels: I can proxy-debug if you actually care about the bug.
<daniels> Mithrandir: not at the moment, to be honest.  can I kick you in like a week?
<infinity> \sh : Erm, by the time I'm done today, at least 90 source packages.
<\sh> k
<infinity> \sh : I've only done 15 so far.  Time to pick up the pace.
<Mithrandir> daniels: sure.
<infinity> \sh : I'm trying to avoid dependency issues, so...
<\sh> infinity: check libopengl-perl it won't find libGLU etc.
<\sh> infinity: and libopengl-dylan has dep problems with libgc1
<\sh> to be more precise: gwydion-dylan-dev has dep problems :)
<infinity> libopengl-perl is on crack.  Put that on a list for later.
<infinity> The dylan thing should be sorted by someone who isn't me.  <hint, hint>
<infinity> But you can have me retry the libopengl-dylan build after you fix grydion-dylan-dev.
<infinity> gwydion, too.
<Treenaks> infinity: it has been for ages
<\sh> infinity: i will check it...
<\sh> good morning mvo
<mvo> hey \sh 
<ajmitch> hi mvo 
* mvo waves to ajmitch 
<pitti> Hey seb128 
<seb128> hi pitti
<jdub> morning seb128 
<seb128> hey jdub
<daniels> seb128: morning sebarino
<seb128> hey daniels
<Mithrandir> jdub: can you send Colin a new image for 7514?
<sivang> morning all
<pitti> Hi sivang 
<Mithrandir> hi Simira 
<Simira> morning
<jdub> Mithrandir: 7514? i don't understand :)
<jdub> oh
<JaneW> lo all
<JaneW> *Nag Alert*
<JaneW> *** Attention BreezyGoals Owners  All Breezy Goals must now be past WIP status and moved to Implemented or beyond. Now that the Feature Feeze is in place unless it's a) a must-have goal, or b) they've sent Matt Zimmerman a proposal for a freeze exception, it's too late. Any goals which aren't in one of those two categories must either implemented or deferred, no more WIP ***
<jdub> bug #?
<jdub> Mithrandir: aha, looking
<fabbione> JaneW: my irc client starts to hate you...
<fabbione> flood over 4 lines = autoignore for 24 hours...
<daniels> ... that was three lines
<fabbione> not here...
<fabbione> i am at 80x24
<fabbione> elmo: i really need xbitmaps in the archive.. can you please give it some NEW love asap
<seb128> mvo: around?
<mvo> seb128: yes
<seb128> mvo: how is that going with lpi?
<seb128> on your list for today ?
<mvo> seb128: yes
<seb128> cool
<siretart> JaneW: I see xen was deferred, Do you know the status about this? Is this perhaps a target for universe?
<fabbione> siretart: no.. deferred to breezy+1
<siretart> :(
<mvo> seb128: there isn't a lot missing, right? we just need to upload (unless we want to change the python import name). right?
<seb128> you said to wait friday, so you know :)
<seb128> it was fine enough to upload for me
<siretart> fabbione: is there some repositories to look at? I'm quite interested in xen and would like to have a look at what is in place now and what would be needed to do to get it working
<fabbione> siretart: there is nothing packaged. the issue is not making the packages.. that's dead easy. The issue is the xen patch upstream
<mvo> seb128: ok, so nothing new over the WE :) that's fine, please upload then. I'll do uploads for g-a-i and (if you want) hal-device-manager 
<fabbione> siretart: their last release was against .11 and it doesn't build easily on .12
<infinity> seb128 : I'll love you forever if you fix gtk+2.0 so stuff stops FTBFSing against it.
<fabbione> siretart: that means doing a huge amount of porting and testing.
<seb128> infinity: on my list for today, I'll start with that
<fabbione> siretart: the porting itself is easy.. get it to compile .. a bit less
<seb128> infinity: daniels could have fixed that with his upload yesterday :)
<siretart> fabbione: I see. do you think having a xen-utils package in universe, with a note that a nonstandard, custom patched kernel is required, would help
<daniels> seb128: see? clearly I'm not cut out to be the gtk maintainer
<siretart> ?
<daniels> seb128: obviously you have to keep it.  tragic news.
<fabbione> siretart: afaik there are xen packages in universe.. 
<infinity> seb128 : Danke.
<seb128> daniels: that makes you sad? You can take it if you want, I'm not like that :)
<infinity> seb128 : Merci, too, if you prefer that.
<fabbione> siretart: oh there are the old ones.. new ones aren't synced..
<daniels> seb128: no, I've tried and failed.  you must keep it, for the good of Ubuntu.
<seb128> infinity: de rien ;)
* siretart doesn't see anything about xen.. hm
<fabbione> siretart: we can sync them...
<fabbione> elmo: please sync xen_2.0.6 from debian/main.. i guess it's in experimental
<siretart> cool
<fabbione> siretart: there are only the sources in universe for the old version
<siretart> fabbione: I was thinking about playing around with linux vserver patch. Upstream declared the 2.6 port stable, and released a 'stable' release. I was thinking about packaging the new version of vserver-utils and a customized breezy kernel in a private repository first and then decide if it's mature enough for inclusion into universe. any objections
<siretart> ?
<siretart> grr. this compose key on sparc type6 keyboards is awfully placed..
<fabbione> siretart: only one.. you need to make absolutely sure that:
<daniels> dude, I have a type5 where backspace is not in the top irght.
<fabbione> 1) it is marked as NON supported kernel
<daniels> top-right is `~, backspace is underneath that
<fabbione> 2) you keep it in sync
<siretart> fabbione: I intended to add a -vserver EXTRAVERSION. Is some note in README.Debian enough for the branding as NON supported?
<fabbione> siretart: hmmm.. well more or less.. i would be more glad to see also the description mentioning UNSUPPORTED
<fabbione> siretart: users tend not to read and just complain afterward
<siretart> ah, package description. Sure thing.
<eruin> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software_2fAvahi?action=highlight&value=%2FAvahi
<eruin> breezy +1 ?
<eruin> directed at jdub, really
<siretart> elmo: please sync util-vserver from unstable. TIA!
<pitti> elmo: please also sync dutch
<JaneW> siretart: it was given to one of the Google Summer of Code students and he went AWOL/MIA so it simply wasn't done
<JaneW> siretart: I guess it will be Bountyable again
<daniels> seb128: do we want to get an exception for VPR, or is gstreamer good enough?
<daniels> seb128: arguably removing features isn't a feature, so it can't really be frozen ...
<ogra_> seb128, my panel is crashing constantly today, i suspect its something i have in the notification area, did the code/protocol change there ? 
<siretart> ogra_: bugzilla has already a bug about this, seems to be a race in gnome-menus
<siretart> ogra_: fixed in CVS upstream
<siretart> appearently
<ogra_> oh, ok
<ogra_> i just recognized it crashes faster if i put something in the notification area
<siretart> may be an other, unrealted problem. I'm just guessing
<ogra_> lets see, it kept stable since 5min now, without any notification stuff
<ogra_> (before it crashed once a min)
<seb128> works fine for me
<seb128> I blame the new inotify
<seb128> I've everything but linux uptodate
<siretart> HA. there again for me. it mostly does during apt-getting stuff
<ogra_> i'll try the old kernel as soon as i'm able to reboot
<seb128> daniels: totem-xine is better than totem-gst atm, but we shipped warty/hoary with the second, so we can keep this way...
<daniels> seb128: your call
<fabbione> seb128: what kernel are you running?
<ogra_> but it seems not to be the notification stuff... gnome-panel cpu usage is up to 95% again...
<Treenaks> my gnome-panel is suicidal.. sometimes it just kills itself and reloads
<seb128> fabbione: 2.6.12-3-k7
<Burgundavia> daniels, seb128 for the record, -gstreamer is totally useless for non-free stuff. There are few users that I know of that use it
<Burgundavia> it gives totem a bad name
<fabbione> seb128: than inotify doesn't even work for you
<fabbione> because the kernel did change from /dev/inotify to syscalls
<seb128> fabbione: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13861 is the bug
<seb128> "I only get panel crashes using the latest 2.6.12-7-686 kernel with some system
<seb128> load, while there are no crashes on 2.6.12-6-686. Tested this with running
<seb128> updatedb to produce some i/o activity."
<seb128> according to the comments
<seb128> fabbione: I know that :)
<seb128> fabbione: 2.6.12-6-686 has working inotify?
<fabbione> seb128: they both work..
<seb128> panel crashes with 2.6.12-7-686 but not 2.6.12-6-686
<ogra_> heh, nautilus constantly swallows two files on my desktop... ctrl-r brings them back.... looks suspicious like inotify
<fabbione> the difference between -6 and -7 are ppc syscalls
<fabbione> and 2 race condition fixes
<fabbione> so fix your gtk bugz :)
<ogra_> i wonder why its only these two
<seb128> dunno why that happens with one and not the other
<fabbione> seb128: does gnome-panel use gamin or inotify directly?
<seb128> gamin
<fabbione> seb128: if kernel/gamin were the issue, none of the apps using gamin would work
<seb128> there is a known gnome-menus issue
<seb128> but it's triggered by the new linux package, dunno why
<seb128> gnome-menus will be updated today, no big deal
<fabbione> seb128: you would see the problem on all apps using gamin, not just -panel or -menu
<seb128> no issue at all here
<seb128> ask to people who complains
<fabbione> seb128: iirc metacity use gamin too, right?
<seb128> no
<Treenaks> my nautilus crashed too yesterday
<seb128> nautilus does
<fabbione> oh yeah nautilus
<fabbione> Treenaks: anything interesting in dmesg?
<Treenaks> fabbione: no
<fabbione> like OOPs or someting
<fabbione> ok
<seb128> a comment states it doesn't happen without update-notifier
<Treenaks> well
<Treenaks> let me check
<seb128> (the panel issues)
<Treenaks> yes, an oops
<fabbione> Treenaks: can you show it somewhere?
<Treenaks> fabbione: I'll pastebin it, 1 sec
<fabbione> sure
<ogra_> seb128, yes, every time evonotify announces new mail to me it happens too within the next minute thats why i was suspecting the notification area
<Treenaks> fabbione: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/1506
<Treenaks> fabbione: this could be another oops, related to umount/ejecting my MP3 player
<Treenaks> fabbione: or unmount/ejecting my USB harddrive
<fabbione> Treenaks: that's definetely not inotify
<Treenaks> fabbione: it's still an oops :)
<siretart> *blink* there is webcal in breezy?! i.e. calderaring over webdav?!
<fabbione> Treenaks: file a bug? ;)
<Treenaks> fabbione: I don't know what causes it exactly
<fabbione> Treenaks: try to restart the system and reproduce it
<seb128> siretart: evolution-webcal? It's here since warty ..
<Treenaks> fabbione: ok, later today
<fabbione> it looks more related to an hotplug process
<fabbione> like you said..
<siretart> seb128: then I must be blind. :) - will try it as soon ;)
<jdub> siretart: that's not what webcal is :-)
<siretart> argl. I mixed it up with caldav. sorry 
<jdub> siretart: and that module is just a mime handler to provide evolution integration with ics files
<siretart> jdub: I suppose caldav is not a target for breezy, is it?
<torkel> siretart: is there anything actually using caldev yet?
<jdub> siretart: i was under the impression evo was going to support it in 2.12, but perhaps not
<torkel> jdub: don't think so
<fabbione> Treenaks: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/1507 <- patch to fix that OOPS
<Treenaks> fabbione: ah, ok :)
* seb128 slaps fabbione
<sivang> hmm, /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/GMenuSimpleEditor/main.py:21: SyntaxWarning: import * only allowed at module level
<sivang> (was dist-upgradinig)
* fabbione goes hunting for food
<sivang> fabbione: good hunting
<seb128> sivang: known issue
<sivang> seb128: k, thanks
<mez_> mdz: ping
<cassidy> I have a crash during Colony CD3 installation, on which package must i send the bugreport? installation-report?
<jdub> hmm, very smooth upgrade to breezy on my server
<Treenaks> jdub: </sarcasm>? 
<jdub> well, in terms of dependencies and so on
<jdub> no, not at all
* jdub will reserve judgement until it's all done
<jdub> then i'll do my remote server :-)
<seb128> daniels: what package creates /etc/X11/default-display-manager ?
<sivang> mvo: hi, I saw there were some changes to lpint by you - looks like you created python binding for using lpint's lib stuff? :)
<Treenaks> jdub: btw, people have started sending me email about my post being at the top of planet for almost 2 days now..
<daniels> seb128: xdm and gdm and kdm's postinst, or something, isn't it?
<seb128> daniels: not sure, that's because of https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13565
<seb128> daniels: let me check that
<mvo> sivang: yes, for the pygtk apps. code is in james tree already
<sivang> mvo: I noticed :) What pygtk apps do we have to patch?
<mvo> sivang: gnome-app-install, hal-device-manager and possibly others 
<seb128> sivang: have you worked on some patches?
<sivang> seb128: I've been experimenting crashing gnomemeeting :) I will try to finish it today, and the other before UIF - are you already done with pygtk apps?
<seb128> there is only 2 gtk apps
<seb128> s/gtk/pygtk/
<mvo> sivang: no worries about the pygtk stuff, I'll take care of it
<sedak> the man pages for x11 client side functions are not supposed to be in libx11-dev ?
<sedak> i can't find them anymore ...
<\sh> g'afternoon JaneW 
<sedak> daniels, should i fill a bug for this ?
<ajmitch> hi JaneW 
<jdub> hmm
<jdub> i'm getting a lovely little hald segfault
<jdub> pitti: around?
<pitti> Hi jdub
<pitti> jdub: can you get a sane trace?
<jdub> hrm
<jdub> #60 0xb7ea8fe0 in g_value_get_flags () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0
<jdub> whoa
<pitti> iz gtk bug
<jdub> very strange character borkage
<jdub> seb128: thoughts?
<Mithrandir> jdub: boomed stack?
<jdub> yeah, that's what gdb suggests
<seb128> jdub: 1 function with no debug symbol is crap :)
<jdub> "Previous frame inner to this frame (corrupt stack?)"
<jdub> seb128: :-)
<Mithrandir> jdub: valgrind it
* fabbione crashes a bit..
<HrdwrBoB> is breezy still going to have esd?
<daniels> sedak: they're just not linked
<daniels> HrdwrBoB: unfortunately, yes
<doko> elmo: pleasse could you update g++-4.0 on davis/breezy and install libgpmg1-dev and quilt
<HrdwrBoB> daniels: argh, about 10 million people/day ask why their game/whatever doesn't work and why movie sound sync is horribly, terribly, utterly broken
<HrdwrBoB> * may be somewhat exaggerated
<ploum> ARGH 8
<daniels> HrdwrBoB: tell me about it
* ploum hates gnome-panel today !
<sedak> daniels, when i do dpkg -L libx11-dev|grep man
<sedak> there is nothing
<seb128> ploum: mine works fine :)
<daniels> hm
<daniels> it should be ok
<sedak> and i have this :
<sedak> ii  libx11-dev                6.2.1+cvs.20050722-6      X11 client-side library (development headers)
<cassidy> ploum, bug seems to be fixed in upstream (see 13861)
<ploum> cassidy, I've seen the bug report
<seb128> cassidy: the new version has been packaged/uploaded too
<ploum> but anyway, today is the "Day of the Pain"
<seb128> let me know if that fixes the issue
<seb128> I don't get any crash here
<seb128> so I've no clue if it's fixed
<seb128> it just works fine for me :)
<cassidy> the problem is that i have crashed my breezy (thanks grub) and can't reinstall ubuntu-desktop (prob with libcairo1)
<ploum> seb128, cool, I will wait until it hits the repo
<ploum> I've seen the new notification balloons
<ploum> But I don't understand fully : in order to make the balloon disapears, you have to click on an empty space in this ballon ?
<ploum> If this is the case, it's not really discoverable and not very user friendly
<cassidy> which ballons?
<pitti> you can click anywhere or just wait for the timeout
<ploum> (also : does clicking to the lightbuld something special ? I'm not sure due to crash)
<ploum> pitti, the "clicking anywhere but the link" is a bit annoying IMHO
<seb128> ploum: you can click on it to not get a message again
<sivang> mvo: cool, thanks
<ploum> seb128, indeed but if I want to get message again but just making this one disappears ?  
<ploum> I've found that clicking "anywhere but the links" works
<ploum> But I don't found this very usable
<ploum> and not discoverable
<seb128> ploum: just wait
<jdub> pitti, seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/2005/hald-valgrind.txt
<seb128> ploum: it vanishes automatically
<seb128> jdub: is that a debug build?
<seb128> jdub: there is no function name here :/
<jdub> seb128: no, want one?
<seb128> ==7729== Invalid read of size 1
<jdub> ok
<seb128> ==7729==    at 0x80675CE: (within /usr/sbin/hald)
<seb128> ==7729==    by 0x80681D6: (within /usr/sbin/hald)
<seb128> ==7729==    by 0x8068465: (within /usr/sbin/hald)
<pitti> jdub: ==7729==  Address 0x0 is not stack'd, malloc'd or (recently) free'd
<pitti> jdub: ok, we access a NULL pointer
<seb128> but where?
<pitti> jdub: but I need a stack trace to know where
<jdub> now i'm looking for jbailey :)
<pitti> jdub: DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip,noopt debuild -us -uc -b
<pitti> jdub: ^ in hal source dir
<jdub> doing now :)
<pitti> jdub: alternatively, if I can ssh in your box, I can debug this myself
<pitti> jdub: but a proper stack trace is certainly helpful, thanks
<jdub> meanwhile, my server is running breezy, and initramfs didn't like my md setup :)
* jdub is almost tempted to upgrade his remote server
<doko> seb128: gnome-control-center, metacity, gnome-panel, gnome-python-extras need a rebuild?
<sivang> pitti: what does nostrip, nooopt and -b do ?
<pitti> sivang: nostrip = don't run strip on binaries (maintain debug symbols)
<pitti> sivang: noopt = compile with -O0
<cassidy> doko, have you also a problem with libcairo1?
<pitti> sivang: -b : build only debs, no source package
<siretart> whops
<siretart> (EE) I810(0) vm86() syscall generated signal 4.
<seb128> doko: no, why?
<sivang> pitti: thx
<doko> seb128: mind to look at the build logs?
<doko> seb128: still libcairo1 deps
<seb128> doko: what about them?
<doko> seb128: FTBFS
<seb128> doko: they didn't build for random reason (libpixmap.la, daniels who broke GTK, etc)
<cassidy> seb128,   gnome-control-center: Depends: libcairo1 (>= 0.6.0) but it is not installable
<seb128> doko: I know, they need to be retried
<seb128> cassidy: that's know, please be patient, that's an unstable version and a transition
<cassidy> seb128, no problem. thx
<jdub> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
<jdub> 0x08068f2a in battery_refresh (d=0x8088a90, handler=0x8079d54) at acpi.c:393
<jdub> 393                             if (strcmp (reporting_unit, "mWh") == 0) {
<jdub> pitti, seb128: ^^^ :)
<seb128> can you put the bt on the same place you but the valgrind?
<pitti> jdub: ok, thanks; so reporting_unit is NULL, I guess
<jdub> ok, one sec
<seb128> bah, pitti is on it, no need to duplicate :)
<jdub> (how do i put a bt out to file in gdb?)
<seb128> dunno, I just select/middle click usually :)
<jdub> i've updated the valgrind output
<jdub> pitti: need anything else?
<hughsie> jdub: there was a fix for hal that checked for reporting_unit == NULL
<pitti> jdub: should be fine, thanks
<pitti> hughsie: I'll look in upstream cvs (well, on the arch supermirror, that is :-)
<hughsie> pitti, there are *loads* of fixes for broken acpi in cvs hal
<hughsie> trust me :-)
<pitti> I know
<pitti> but we can't update to the new upstream version any more
<pitti> and I already applied a great deal of fixes
<hughsie> pitti: n/p -- just look at the cvs history of hal/hald/acpi.c and you'll see the indervidual patches since 0.5.3
<hughsie> 0.5.4 comes out tomorrow (joke) :-)
<siretart> daniels: do you know if there are any open issues with i810 and multihead setups? are they supposed to work?
<siretart> in breezy, that is
<sivang> daniels: ping
<daniels> sivang: mmm?
<daniels> siretart: they should be OK, but your BIOS might be SIGILLing
<siretart> daniels: woah. sounds great :/
<sivang> daniels: actuall,y that would probably betterserved over #ubuntu, I have some issue with using a projector as a display - ok to ask you there?
<daniels> sivang: you can ask me there if you like ...
<sivang> daniels: well, since you are not logged there, I'll start here: Is anything special need be done to allow an ubuntu R50 laptop to use the projector as a display, or a second one on multihead configs?
* lathiat laughs at daniels 
<daniels> sivang: that's got a radeon in it?
<sivang> daniels: nvidia
<sivang> daniels: erm, at least so I've been told by the laptop owner
<daniels> sivang: errrrrr
<daniels> sivang: probably won't work withou tthe binary driver, then
<sivang> daniels: available through l-r-m ?
<TheMuso> If it is a ThinkPad R50, it should be radeon.
<daniels> sivang: yeah
<sivang> daniels: k, thanks
<michele> the r50 has a mobility radeon 7500 or 9000
<michele> http://thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:R50
<mvo> ping jamesh 
<JaneW> is anybody else having problems with SLOW response on wiki.ubuntu.com?
<pitti> JaneW: yes, that sucks
<pitti> JaneW: btw, a question about LanguagePackRoadmap: most of the parts of it are implemented, but the ooo/moz integration isn't yet; how should this be reflected in the state?
<pitti> JaneW: it's not completed yet, but deferred would only be true partly
<pitti> fabbione: do you think that you still can update the kernel's alsa driver to 1.0.9b to fix that snd_pcm_drain race?
<Mithrandir> so, grub in breezy doesn't work for me on this system
<bob2> mjg59 has hot grub love
<Mithrandir> well, hoary's grub worked
<pitti> Mithrandir: ubuntu6 works fine for me, btw
<Mithrandir> pitti: if you run grub-install /dev/hda as well?
<pitti> Mithrandir: yes, that's what I did, according to your mail
<pitti> Mithrandir: but you didn't ask for positive replies on the ML
<pitti> Mithrandir: amd64, two IDE hds
<Mithrandir> pitti: uhm, huh?  What, where?
* Mithrandir thinks pitti confuses him with somebody else; I didn't ask for anybody to test the new grub.
<pitti> Mithrandir: argh, sorry; that was jg59
<pitti> mjg59, even
<siretart> fuck
<Mithrandir> hmm, I should check the version on the daily, then
<siretart> i810 hates me, now even the well tested and before working single head mode doesn't work anymore :(
<Mithrandir> ah, that's the old version
<Mithrandir> so I guess ubuntu6 fixes the problem
<jdub> hrm, should debmirror be in main?
<siretart> is there any ftpmaster here who can Un'depwait trancode on i386? I uploaded a new version yesterday building fine in my pbuilder. lamont? around?
<Mithrandir> siretart: that's a buildd admin, not an ftp-master.
<siretart> Mithrandir: oh. sorry. who are buildd admins for i386?
<pitti> hughsie, jdub: odd, I already have the "if (reporting_unit == NULL)" check
<pitti> jdub: what is your hal version?
<pitti> oh, nevermind
<pitti> hughsie: the check in hal is not sufficient; it is in battery_refresh_poll, but not in battery_refresh...
<fabbione> pitti: i doubt.. you will need to talk with Ben C.
<pitti> ok
<fabbione> pitti: we are too far into freeze status
<pitti> darn
<pitti> fabbione: last time I asked you about this you thought that we already had the latest version :-(
<pitti> ok, anyway, we just leave the workaround in esound then
<fabbione> pitti: ask Ben, perhaps he has no objections.. personally neither do i
<pitti> ok, will do
<fabbione> pitti: i don't write the release schedule :)
<hughsie> pitti: sorry, having lunch. 
<hughsie> pitti: is it in cvs now?
<pitti> hughsie: nevermind, I send a patch to the hal list
<pitti> hughsie: no, jdub's bug is not in hal cvs
<hughsie> pitti, okay, thanks.
<pitti> Hi jordi!
<hughsie> pitti, you said you sent a mail to hal-devel? I'm subscribed and got no email :-(
<pitti> hughsie: no, I will send it (just finished the patch); I usually send to hal@fd.o
<hughsie> sure, okay. got me worried there :-)
<Mithrandir> heh, go cdebconf:
<Mithrandir> --> INPUT critical debconf/priority
<Mithrandir> <-- 0 question will be asked
<Mithrandir> --> GO
<Mithrandir> <-- 100 internal error
<pitti> hughsie: sent
<hughsie> pitti: thanks, i'll try to fast-track it before 0.5.4 comes out
<JaneW> hi Saba_Z 
<Saba_Z> Hi
<Saba_Z> DNS and DHCP configurations are completed. Now, I'm working on the "add machine" script of samba.
<Saba_Z> The script should add the new machine in DNS configuration file, and introduce MAC address of the new machine to DHCP to set as a host.
<fabbione> hi Saba_Z 
<Saba_Z> hi fabbione
<fabbione> neat :)
<fabbione> sounds very nice
<Saba_Z> I think I can send a deb package in 2 days. 
<fabbione> Saba_Z: that would be awesome.. can you do in less than 24hours?
<Saba_Z> ok, but I can't test Squid. It's partly ready but not tested.
<fabbione> Saba_Z: ok that would be fine for me. Please publish asap your .orig.tar.gz .diff.gz and .dsc
<bob2> haha https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OptimizingNvidia
<tseng> bob2: we should merge the wiki with gentoo forums
<bob2> hahahahaha
<tseng> dont want to miss out on this kind of invaluable info
<tseng> #
<tseng> #
<tseng> Videoram: for example if you have 128MB then 128*1024=131072
<tseng> ^ cool.
<bob2> I liked this diff:
<bob2> = Fix permissions errors and increase performance =
<bob2> According to the [http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=300434 following thread]  it will not only fix any permissions errors but also increase the performance!
<daniels> can we please delete optimizing nvidia?
<bob2> {{{
<bob2> sudo chmod 0666 /dev/nvidia*
<bob2> }}}
<bob2> and
<bob2> {{{
<bob2> sudo chown root /dev/nvidia*
<bob2> }}}
<Treenaks> bob2: yes, and then reboot.. yay udev
<bob2> stop opressing the users
<tseng> haha
<tseng> so that is why linspire runs as root
<tseng> performance!
<bob2> making files writable by everyone INCREASES PERFORMANCE
<bob2> 'tis gone
<Treenaks> tseng: of course! that must be it!
<sivang> daniels: do we have any automatic "workaround" for the old geforce 2 gpu problem? (for instance mine is not recognized anymore by the current l-r-m driver)
<daniels> sivang: not as such, no
<sivang> daniels: do we have the driver downloaded as a package from the repo?
<fabbione> sivang: mail nvidia support
<daniels> sivang: not at the moment
<sivang> fabbione: why? They are still releasing the driver , don't they? (i.e., we just need to have the packages ? O:-) )
* sivang thinks hardware should never be deprecated :)
<fabbione> sivang: uh?? if their latest driver doesn't support it..
<daniels> fabbione: nvidia got split into two streams -- 'normal' and 'legacy'
<fabbione> daniels: ahhh..
<fabbione> didn't know that
<fabbione> just to make things more complicated
<fabbione> and of course the 2 drivers can't be installed at the same time
<daniels> right
<daniels> yay nvidia
<mjg59> daniels: Is the legacy driver actually available yet?
<HiddenWolf> *g* what a mess
<daniels> mjg59: i think so
<mjg59> daniels: It's not obviously on their website
<daniels> mjg59: no, I can't find it either
<daniels> \o/
<mjg59> Go nvidia
<Mithrandir> heh
<Mithrandir> interesting failure:
<Mithrandir> first, init complains about not finding /sys/bus/scsi/devices/*/type
<Mithrandir> then, it fails to load the "unknown" module, and fails to mount /dev/hda1 on /root
<Mithrandir> something is on a bit of crack here
<sivang> damn nvidia
<siretart> bob2: ping. updated lyx packages? :) *duck*
<siretart> where did libxp-dev go? was it relocated?
<siretart> seems to be gone. xpdf need this. Help!
<siretart> hm lesstif2-dev seems broken
<lathiat> mjg59: yes, the 'legacy' driver is just version 6629
<lathiat> dan	too
<lathiat> daniels: too, rather
<lathiat> (its not very obvious)
<mjg59> Oh holy christ.
<mjg59> Why do Nvidia think it's a good idea to have an excessively fat guy all over their website?
<lathiat> now now mjg59
<mjg59> Really. He doesn't make me think "Oh, this company must make fast graphics cards"
<lathiat> but it can render that whoel guy really fast
<[SemTeX] > mjg59: it's a reminder "don't game too much, or you'll look like this soon"
<siretart> lol
<Treenaks> [SemTeX] : the "Gamer" stereotype"
<lathiat> haha
<mjg59> NNNNNGH.
<mjg59> static struct pci_device_id nv_pci_table[]  = {
<mjg59>     {
<mjg59>         .vendor      = PCI_VENDOR_ID_NVIDIA,
<mjg59>         .device      = PCI_ANY_ID,
<mjg59>         .subvendor   = PCI_ANY_ID,
<mjg59>         .subdevice   = PCI_ANY_ID,
<mjg59>         .class       = (PCI_CLASS_DISPLAY_VGA << 8),
<mjg59> LIES.
* Treenaks waits for mjg59's blog post
<siretart> poor mjg59 
<mjg59> rm_is_legacy_device is the important function
<mjg59> Guess which part of the module it's in - the open bit or the closed bit?
<lathiat> i'll take 3 guesses
<\sh> closed
<lathiat> the closed bit?
<mjg59> Go on, guess
<mjg59> YES
<mjg59> HURRAH
<siretart> :/
<lathiat> WE ALL LOVE NVIDIA
<\sh> i won another bugging night with mjg59 
<mjg59> So there is in fact NO WAY OF TELLING whether a card is legacy or not without loading the driver, failing and then loading the legacy driver
<Treenaks> mjg59: "intelligent design"
<mjg59> Thanks, nvidia. Thnvidia.
<\sh> u know what? I'm compiling now gwydion stuff for over 2 hours
<Mithrandir> mjg59: everybody knows actually _USING_ the PCI IDs are for wussies.
<daniels> mjg59: keep a list of legacy devices by pci id and explicitly redirect them to the legacy driver, else try the new one
<mjg59> daniels: Which means getting the PCI IDs of the legacy devices
<daniels> mjg59: which is in their README
<mjg59> Which would be trivial if, say, they'd actually written a proper module
<Treenaks> mjg59: they're nvidia, what do you expect?
<mjg59> Oh, so they are. Ok, that makes life easier.
<daniels> ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-7664/README.txt
<mjg59> Goddamned documentation.
<mjg59> I still don't entirely understand why it doesn't use the pci_device_id struct properly
<mjg59> Or, indeed, why their numbering system seems to have no sense whatsoever.
<fabbione> infinity: can you please try to kick back mysql-dfsg-4.1 on ppc ??
<fabbione> the FTBFS is WEIRD..
<fabbione> given that there is no code change at all
<doko> daniels: what's the replacement for xlibs-pic?
<daniels> doko: ... what were you using it for?
<doko> daniels: metacity depends on it, but maybe seb128 is already working on it
<seb128> nop
<seb128> does somebody knows a way to get back some files on an ext3 parition after a rm -f? 
<daniels> OH ARGH
<daniels> seb128: can gnome-pkg-tools PLEASE tank the build if control has been modified and control.in not or something
<lathiat> seb128: yeh uh hrmm ouch, use reiserfs its much easier with reiser. :)
<seb128> lathiat: not for me, and it's already done :p
<seb128> daniels: you have overwritten your control changes? :)
<lathiat> easier as in its easier to recover shit ;p
<fabbione> seb128: yes.. umount the partition and grep on the device for something you think it was in that file...
<lathiat> theres e2undel and recover.. nfi how good
<lathiat> or that.. if its text
<fabbione> seb128: than use a forensic tool to rebuild the inode chains to recover the file
<fabbione> lathiat: ext3 doesn't have undelete
<daniels> seb128: control.in is for losers
* fabbione has been there rm -fr /home
<seb128> "forensic tool" what's this?
<fabbione> seb128: tools to do data recovery or security analisis of a disk OFFLINE
<seb128> ok, thanks
<fabbione> but if you didn't umount your partition immediatly..
<lathiat> yeh well i was lucky that
<fabbione> you already said KTHXBYE to your data
<doko> daniels: use control.m4
<lathiat> i was using reiserfs at the time i screwed up
<lathiat> so i ran a --rebuild-tree -S
<lathiat> and it foudn them alla nd stuck them in /lost+found
<daniels> doko: are you drunk?
<ogra_> daniels: its 4pm here...
<ogra_> daniels: he shouldnt be drunk yet :)
<ogra_> (but with doko you never know ;) )
<doko> ogra_: go and fix gcompis ... ;-)
<ogra_> :p
* ogra_ thinks he should better shut up as long as he's that vulnerable....
<doko> daniels: do you look at metacity, or have a hint, what to replace?
<daniels> doko: already fixed it
<doko> daniels: thanks :)
<dieman> fabbione: im still harassing dell on that damn keyboard issue
<dieman> fabbione: debian sarge users are starting to show up on the list complaining too.
<fabbione> dieman: meh dude.. do you expect me to remember?
<dieman> oh, you reassigned it :)
<fabbione> what was that about?
<dieman> 12247 :)
<dieman> you touched the bug ~3 minutes ago ;)
<fabbione> dieman: from today ENOTMYPROBLEM...
<dieman> cool
<fabbione> dieman: i did a 270 bugs reassignment in a shot..
<dieman> you got other things to do?
<fabbione> no idea your was there...
<dieman> ahh
<dieman> leaving? or get told to do other work?
<fabbione> it was [ Select All ]   * Reassing ben.collins@ubuntu.com [ KTHXBYE ] 
<dieman> heh
<fabbione> other work...
<fabbione> i am not leaving
<dieman> cool
<fabbione> you can't get rid of me
<pitti> BenC: here?
<jane__> I am going to have to keep sending the update message until the Breezy Goals are updated, and progressed from WIP and pending
<JaneW> please
<pitti> 13:24:58 <pitti>      JaneW: btw, a question about LanguagePackRoadmap: most of the parts of it are implemented, but the ooo/moz integration isn't yet; how should this be reflected in the state?
<pitti> 13:25:19 <pitti> JaneW: it's not completed yet, but deferred would only be true partly
<pitti> JaneW: any  idea what do do about these roadmap specs?
<fabbione> JaneW: start to treat people that they will get the "bag of death" from Mataro', if they don't update the wiki :)
<JaneW> pitti: oic, thanks (my line's been terrible today)
<pitti> JaneW: mine too, don't worry :-)
<pitti> argh, no deathbags any more, please
<JaneW> fabbione: nice idea, I'll start preparing them now... I think I have some tofu...
<pitti> mmmmmmrrghhaaargh
<JaneW> pitti: what we are doing when as much of a goal has been implemented as is going to be, we move it to green, and then add a line in the deferred table detailing the section that didn't get done and isn;t going to be done now...
<JaneW> pitti: see EarlyUserSpace etc...
<pitti> JaneW: ok, thanks, will do that
<pitti> maybe we manage the firefox bit, too
<pitti> carlos: ping; any luck with the ffox extraction?
<jane_> pitti: many thanks :) let me know if you can't or e-mail me and I'll do it later (when my line is more reliable)
* pitti is confused when talking to two Janes
<carlos> pitti, I did some updates to the wiki. It's only missing the final steps to introduce the updates from Rosetta
<carlos> pitti, it should be ready today
<JaneW> lol ok I'll stick to this one
<pitti> carlos: oh, you are already that far?
<pitti> carlos: merely exporting the po files would already be a great step forward
<carlos> pitti, I did last week already, but I lost all the text so it's a matter of remember what I wrote :-)
<pitti> carlos: I thought the updates would be performed separately in a langpack builder
<pitti> ?
<pitti> ouch
<carlos> pitti, I'm talking about the spec
<carlos> well, the spec is more or less the script as I have there all commands we need to execute
<pitti> ah, ok
<carlos> pitti, if you want, we can start producing the .po files now
<carlos> pitti, I have that part documented
<pitti> carlos: would be cool
<pitti> carlos: do you want to do the ffox mods or shall I?
<carlos> pitti, could you take a look at the spec then?
<pitti> sure
<pitti> carlos: in some minutes?
<carlos> pitti, I'm not editing it atm
<pitti> no, I need some  minutes to finish my current task
<carlos> pitti, and the .po creation part should be more or less finished so, read it when you have some time to do it
<carlos> ok
<carlos> :-)
<infinity> fabbione : mysql-dfsg-4.1 failed the same way the second time, looks like you broke it.
<pitti> carlos: what was the URL again?
<doko> pitti: btw, did the sdf files arrive in rookery?
<carlos> pitti, https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RosettaFirefoxAndOpenOfficeSupport
<pitti> doko: in rookery? by which route?
<pitti> carlos: merci
<HiddenWolf> omg
<HiddenWolf> ubuntu.com, canonical.com, launchpad.com, and you still need a wiki.launchpad.canonical.com? ;)
<HiddenWolf> .com / .org
<HiddenWolf> when that fridge idea gets off the ground, it'd better include a big project sitemap. :)
<doko> pitti: OOo2 build
<doko> checking for gtk+-2.0 >= 1.3.13 ... Package xfixes was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `xfixes.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable Package 'xfixes', required by 'GDK', not found
<doko> configure: error: Library requirements (gtk+-2.0 >= 1.3.13 ) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them.
<doko> seb128, daniels: ^^^ any idea, what `xfixes.pc' is
<pitti> doko: ah, lemme look
<daniels> doko: sebarino already fixed that, just needs to be built with a new libgtk2.0-dev
<seb128> libxfixes
<seb128> doko: you want gtk 2.8.0-1ubuntu2
<doko> ok
<pitti> doko: hm, the latest tarball does not look significantly different from the previous ones
<doko> ahh, yes, that should change with -12 ...
<pitti> infinity: can you please check that pkgstriptranslations 14 is installed in all buildds?
<pitti> infinity: this version is supposed to strip off OO.o2 translation files, but that didn't happen
<infinity> pitti : Uhm, 14 is ancient, it certainly should be in all the chroots.  I'll check anyway.
<pitti> infinity: could also be a bug in pkgstriptranslations; but thanks for checking
<doko> seb128: ../../../lib/libwx_gtk2u_core-2.6.so: undefined reference to `pango_x_get_context'
<doko> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<seb128> doko: what package is that?
<doko> only on i386, not on amd64 and powerpc
<doko> wxwidgets2.6
<seb128> what version of gtk?
<infinity> pitti : It's current in all 12 chroots.
<doko> 2.something
<doko> I don't know, it did work 2 weeks ago
<pitti> infinity: ok, thanks
<mjg59> seb128: #13970 - any chance of working that in?
<infinity> doko : I'll retry it, it probably biult against a sketchy version of GTK.
<doko> ok
<seb128> mjg59: should be easy, I'll have a try on it when I'm uptodate with GNOME 2.11.92
<mjg59> seb128: Rock, thanks
<seb128> np
<pitti> fabbione: thanks for reassigning some linux bugs from me :-)
<fabbione> pitti: ehehe
<JaneW> mvo: what the status of systemupgradetool?
<fabbione> infinity: i think ppc buildd's are having issues...
<infinity> This is news?
<infinity> But your MySQL failure isn't the usual "PPC buildds segv" thing, cause it failed identically both times.
<infinity> So, uhm, try again.
<mvo> JaneW: deferred
<fabbione> nope
<fabbione> infinity: the second time it's 3k
<fabbione> infinity: sort of impossible to be the same log as 26k
<fabbione> and there are no ppc changes there...
<fabbione> so it must build
<JaneW> mvo: ok.
<fabbione> and if it doesn't i blame any of its build-dep
<infinity> Er, I saw two identical logs.
<fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mysql-dfsg-4.1/4.1.12-1ubuntu1/ <-
<fabbione> one is 26K and one is 3K
<fabbione> i find hard to believe that the first gzip run was sooo bad...
<infinity> Oh, the other identical log hasn't been uploaded yet.
<infinity> Ignore the 3k log.
<fabbione> infinity: let's wait and see also for mysql-dfsg_4.0
<infinity> Oooor... Maybe I'm on crack.
* infinity could have swon he saw that same failure twice...
<infinity> Feh.
<infinity> I must be half asleep.
<infinity> I blame the time.
* fabbione looks at infinity and blame qt
<fabbione> elmo: ping?
<elmo> ?
<fabbione> elmo: for all the stuff sitting in NEW, i absolutely need xbitmaps...
<fabbione> do you think you can manage it by tomorrow?
<elmo> for main or universe?
<fabbione> and i did fix the copyright file on all the others...
<fabbione> universe is fine
<pitti> elmo: can you please sync dutch postgresql-7.4 and postgresql-8.0 (the latter from incoming)?
<daniels> elmo: main
<JaneW> pitti: I have updated languagepackroadmap for you...
<fabbione> right now, i don't need anything in main of all that stuff
<pitti> JaneW: merci
<fabbione> elmo: and if you can kindly sync xen-2.0.6 from Debian to our universe. i think 2.0.6 is in experimental
<JaneW> chmj: is bluetoothsupport deferred in it's entirety, or has some of it been completed?
<pitti> JaneW: hm, you mean on the BreezyGoals page?
<JaneW> pitti: yes may take a few hours to laod the page though ;)
<pitti> JaneW: it reloaded, but no changes; well, I'll try again in some minutes
<pitti> JaneW: I hope to add Firefox POT export today, so I waited...
<JaneW> check now...
<chmj> JaneW: no 
<JaneW> it was waiting on my side
<chmj> JaneW: some of it has been completed 
<JaneW> chmj: we need the completed parts listed with 'imlemented' status, the rest must be moved down to the deferred table
<pitti> JaneW: cool :-)
<chmj> JaneW: ok 
<JaneW> the WIP and Pending goals *must* move
<JaneW> pitti: please remind me why AudioInfrastructure can't be marked complete?
<pitti> JaneW: well, I actually fixed that bug this morning...
<pitti> JaneW: so now we could call it complete
<pitti> JaneW: shall I update?
<JaneW> yay, I'll do it... so nothing's defrerred then?
<pitti> JaneW: no :-)
<JaneW> :))
* JaneW hands a Gold Star to pitti
<pitti> YAY
<JaneW> the most co-operative person today...
* pitti blushes
* infinity decides that it's time to stop working and go to bed.
<JaneW> anyone else wanna Go Green?
<pitti> infinity: wise decision :-) sleep well
* mvo waves to Mitario 
* Mitario waves back :)
* Mitario also waves to everybody else
<daniels> JaneW: i have XRoadmap sitting here waiting to be uploaded, just need the very final all-clear from mdz when he wakes up
<JaneW> daniels: ok, he did say some of it was deferred...
<daniels> JaneW: yeah, things sort of got a little more fluid after that
<teprrr> hmm, so, what was the reason of libXrender.la and libXcursor.la removal? looks like sources still have those..
<mvo> JaneW: what should we do with FindingPackages? It's 75% done and in the archive but the remaining bits need to be adressed in breey+1
<daniels> teprrr: because libtool is pain, and causes build failures left, right and centre
<daniels> speaking of bed ...
<JaneW> mvo same as I said to pitti...
<teprrr> daniels, so how kde stuff should be compiled then? or do you think kde will stop using libtool?
<teprrr> uh, he's gone
<JaneW> pitti: what we are doing when as much of a goal has been implemented as is going to be, we move it to green, and then add a line in the deferred table detailing the section that didn't get done and isn;t going to be done now...
<JaneW> pmvo^
<JaneW> mvo even ^
<JaneW> mvo: make sense?
<mvo> JaneW: yes, that makes sense, thanks
<mvo> JaneW: should I move it to green myself? or do you want to do it?
<ogra_> gah since when does xorg use xorg.conf in ~/ by default if it finds one youi just struggled for 1h to get my X wotking because i had a xorg.conf from another PC backed up in my home GRR
<pitti> ogra_: erm, whose ~?
* HiddenWolf gives ogra a glass of water
<JaneW> mvo: either way, which is easier?
<mvo> JaneW: if you already have it open for editing, go ahead :) 
<fabbione> infinity: i was right...
<ogra_> pitti: mine
<JaneW> mvo: if you want me to do it please give me details of what's deferred
<fabbione> something in mysql-dfsg-* B-D is broken on ppc
<fabbione> infinity: also mysql-dfsg_4.0 is FTBFS
<fabbione> and 4.1 keeps failing in different ways
<ogra_> pitti: i have a xorg.conf for my laptop in my ~/ ... apparently gdm reads that and i got very odd glu errors (since my lappie is nv and my desktop is mga)
<pitti> ah, gdm, ok
<pitti> Hi jbailey 
<jbailey> Heya Martin!
<ogra_> pitti: startx starts X but chokes with weird xlib errors... as soon as i rename the file to xorg.cong.bak, everything works :)
<ogra_> conf indeed
<elmo> fabbione: there's a bunch of these were not all the copyright stuff is included, and/or the original has no copyright in the cource
<fabbione> elmo: only one has no copyright in the source and daniels told me that upstream agreed to place all of them as TOG
<elmo> unless upstream == original author, upstream doesn't get to do that
<fabbione> elmo: and for the copyright i did copy paste from the source code.. which one did i miss?
<fabbione> elmo: daniels said to do that way as they agreed upstream to do it.. no idea if the author was involved but given that the same code was in xfree86 and xorg.. it should be ok
<pitti> BenC: would you consider updating the kernel alsa driver to 1.0.9b? they fixed some serious bugs
<pitti> BenC: and this version is out for over a month now
<elmo> fabbione: yah huh
<pitti> BenC: so it shouldn't break much
<elmo> anyway, the last one I noticed was xclock
<elmo> there were some others, but I didn't take notes, and none of them are particularly serious
<fabbione> elmo: i found some sources with 3 licences in it.. but i am sure all of them are DFSG..
<fabbione> elmo: the worst case is missing the Copyright: foo or Copyright: bar
<JaneW> ok I need to go, please all update goals and progress to implemented what is done, and defer what hasn't made it. Thanks :)
<fabbione> where foo or bar are company names
<fabbione> nobody did restrict the code
<elmo> fabbione: dude, you can't leave out licenses because they're all  DFSG
<elmo> Clock.c has two very distinct licenses, not just with different company names
<elmo> I know it's unfair that the copyright gets more closely examined, but that's just one of the side effects of splitting
<Robot101> anyone know why hald causes a BUG() in 2.6.12-6-686?
<fabbione> elmo: if i missed a licence, i did it by mistake.. not because i wanted to
<lathiat> pitti: notifications daemons arrow is broken if you have a higher dpi
<lathiat> pitti: you end up with two
<pitti> uh, mvo ^ ?
<Robot101> http://rafb.net/paste/results/D1zBgW98.html
<fabbione> elmo: where did you find the second licence?
<pitti> mvo: for the arrow position calculation, do you rely on some libnotify numbers or how do you do that?
<fabbione> elmo: ah ok.. i did look at xclock.c..
<fabbione> elmo: didn't see the other one.. ok REJECT IT
<mvo> lathiat: can you do a screenshot and file a bug please?
<lathiat> i mean like
<fabbione> elmo: i will reupload as soon as i see the mail from you
<lathiat> tghe arrow is right
<lathiat> but the actual drawing of the arrow
<lathiat> on the popup
<lathiat> you en dup with two
<lathiat> and the window isnt hinted
<mvo> pitti: I used the code that is available in notification-daemon and made it a bit smarter about arrows close to the right border
<lathiat> its just a big square
<mvo> lathiat: and assign the bug to me?
<lathiat> mvo: ok
<lathiat> also, we have no python-dbus
<hughsie> pitti: you get my mail?
<pitti> hughsie: no, I check now
<hughsie> pitti: could you test this for me, and tell me if it works?
<pitti> hughsie: if you talk about the patch, jdub experienced the crash, so he should test it
<hughsie> jdub: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.hal/2998 - could you try that please
<hughsie> thanks pitti.
<fabbione> elmo: thanks.. reuploading now
<pitti> hughsie: patch looks good at first sight
<hughsie> pitti: thanks. This is the *billionth* acpi bug we've tried to fix
<hughsie> acpi is so broken
<elmo> THIS IS SO MUCH FUN
<pitti> hughsie: still better to fix it in hal than to fix it in a dozen other packages :-)
<hughsie> pitti: i know. everyone's slowly agreeing with that
<pitti> just to reassure you :-)
<fabbione> elmo: can you please install mysql-dfsg and mysql-dfsg-4.1 BuildDeps on davis?
<hughsie> pitti: altho i still get angry emails from creators of bespoke software that does one specific thing just for apm or pmu.
<hughsie> oss people get so protective :-)
<elmo> fabbione: done, just also dist-upgrading
<fabbione> elmo: perfect.. thanks
<elmo> (done)
<fabbione> OH JEEEEEEE... another DoS...
<fabbione> somebody doesn't want me on the net...
<lathiat> nice
<lathiat> you should get a cl04k
<fabbione> lathiat: they can't drop me off... but they can slow me down a lot
<lathiat> heh
<fabbione> the NAT table just saturate to death with their nmap scans
<pitti> carlos: with your recipe I don't get a standard .po file header - is that important for you?
<carlos> pitti, you get a standard one but without real data
<carlos> pitti, that's a problem with pootle's tools
<carlos> we will need to fix it later
<carlos> pitti, and you will get a really huge comment
<pitti> carlos: so the mere msgcat'ed one is enough?
<pitti> carlos: shall I filter out the comments?
<carlos> pitti, I'm not sure
<pitti> carlos: I mean just the huge initial comment
<carlos> pitti, the comments are sometimes useful for translators
<pitti> carlos: not the per-msg commetns
<carlos> pitti, if you can do it easily.. it would be good
<carlos> yes
<pitti> hm, they aren't generated by pootle
<pitti> msgcat blows away the .po headers
<fabbione> infinity: ping?
<carlos> pitti, all headers are the same
<carlos> pitti, default vaules + encoding set to UTF-8
<pitti> carlos: hm, comment filtering is not that trivial; FWIW, they don't actually hurt, I guess
<carlos> pitti, no, they don't hurt
<pitti> carlos: it is ok that firefox generates the POT and m-firefox-locale-all (and a few others) generate the matching po files?
<carlos> pitti, no
<carlos> both .pot and .po files should be included into the same translations.tar.gz
<carlos> and also, to regenerate the language packs, we need the .pot files
<pitti> carlos: but I don't have the translations in the ffox package
<pitti> carlos: and we don't have an up to date en-US.jar in m-f-l-a
<carlos> pitti, that's why I asked you to copy the en-US.jar file into the locale-all
<fabbione> elmo: can you please kick back mysql-dfsg on ppc? i think one buildd is not behaving properly.
<pitti> argh, no
<pitti> carlos: that's evil
<fabbione> elmo: mysql-dfsg-4.1 failed 3 times and than succeeded
<carlos> pitti, we talked about that...
<pitti> carlos: there  is not just m-f-l-a, there are a bunch of other source pkgs with translations
<carlos> I need that file to get a .pot file
<carlos> pitti, look at it as the special files that OO needs
<pitti> carlos: we need to collect the generated pot and po files from the translation tarballs
<pitti> carlos: not copy around files in the source package
<carlos> without that, I cannot go from the .po file to the firefox language pack
<pitti> carlos: same thing, we can msgmerge
<elmo> fabbione: given back
<fabbione> elmo: thanks
<fabbione> YAY FOR THE SPAM
<carlos> pitti, msgmerge? with what?
<pitti> carlos: moz2po, msgmerge with rosetta data, po2moz
<pitti> in an arbitrary m-f locale source packagre
<carlos> pitti, no, that's impossible
<pitti> hm?
<carlos> pitti, po2moz needs a big list of .po files
<carlos> not just one .po file
<carlos> as Rosetta gives to us
<pitti> carlos: but msgmerge can certainly cope with that
<Nafallo> seb128: could we update screem after breezy get's released? new stable upstream since May. kthxbye.
<pitti> it just merges the relevant part into the appropriate file
<carlos> pitti, sure, but if you have the .pot files
<fabbione> elmo: yeah.. it's definetely a problem with one of the ppc buildd.. it builds fine on davis too..
<carlos> otherwise you will lose translations
<pitti> hmmm
* fabbione goes off line for today
<fabbione> elmo: thanks a lot dude..
<pitti> carlos: but, we can't go around and manually maintain 7 copies of en-US.jar
<pitti> carlos: that's crazy
<seb128> Nafallo: why do you ask that to me?
<carlos> pitti, There is another option, but that would mean that we don't have firefox language packs for Breezy
<seb128> Nafallo: it has not been updated before freeze because new versions didn't work with gnome-menus 2.11 API
<pitti> carlos: which one?
<carlos> pitti, and is develop/improve pootle's scripts to be able to regenerate the language pack from a singe .po file
<Nafallo> seb128: you where the last one that touched it ;-).
<carlos> pitti, the .po file format has support to store all the meta information we need
<Nafallo> seb128: hmm, oki. I try to figure out how to upload stuff with it, and the new release seems to have an upload druid ;-).
<pitti> carlos: ok, so if we need the XPI, then let's store the XPI into the translation tarball
<pitti> carlos: and grab the current one in the langpack builder
<carlos> pitti, ugly, really ugly :-(
<pitti> carlos: rather than manually copying around ~ 40 jar files (think about mozilla and tbird)
<carlos> but you are the one that needs to cope with that....
<pitti> carlos: right, but each translation has its own source apckage for moz and tbird, and there are still about 6 or 7 ffox l10n source packages
<carlos> pitti, if you are happy with that solution, I'm happy too
<pitti> carlos: so I can't generate a pot from, let's say de_DE.jar?
<pitti> carlos: or, rather, update the translations in it with moz2po/msgmerge/po2moz
<carlos> pitti, no, de_DE.jar does not have any english string
<pitti> carlos: ok, then I change pkgstriptranslations again to store the XPI
<pitti> carlos: unless you have another idea
<carlos> pitti, what's our timeline?
<pitti> it's h4ckish
<carlos> we are in feature freeze already
<pitti> carlos: for feature freeze? two weeks ago
<carlos> pitti, to have language packs done
<pitti> but since this doesn't affect the debs at all, I guess it's ok
<pitti> carlos: I doubt that I can do that anytime soon
<carlos> pitti, the .xpi export and the script to regenerate the language pack?
<pitti> carlos: xpi export is fine
<pitti> I'm doing it right now
<carlos> pitti, then, what do you mean with "I doubt that I can do taht anytime soon"?
<pitti> carlos: the machinery to produce updated ffox langpacks
<pitti> that requires severe archive restructuring
<pitti> and we can't do that for breezy
<pitti> we can only manually generate xpis for breezy and manually update the l10n packages
<pitti> for breezy+1 we need to generate the mozilla locale packages  completely synthetically
<carlos> pitti, do you think that firefox will be done by hand for breezy?
<carlos> ok
<pitti> carlos: maybe, but not too often, I guess
<Nafallo> seb128: I guess screem does not count as gnome (and has UVF exception)? that error where fixed three days after UVF ;-).
<pitti> carlos: for breezy+1 we need to completely drop all those different moz/tbird/ffox locale source packages, I guess
<seb128> Nafallo: nop
<seb128> Nafallo: you can try to ping mdz with a rationnal of why updating
<Nafallo> seb128: oki, I will merge it and try if I can find one :-)
<Nafallo> seb128: thanx :-)
<seb128> np
<pitti> carlos: that means that m-f-l-a can't generate POTs during build; darn, why it needs en_US.xpi to generate a German translation? What did upstream drink when they invented this crap???
<pitti> carlos: we can't seriously download a file from rookery on the buildd
<carlos> pitti, firefox is not using .po files 
<pitti> carlos: I mean, why does moz2po need en-US.jar to generate de.po
<pitti> from de_DE.xpi
<carlos> pitti, my plan includes that Rosetta exports .xpi files for firefox I think it's doable
<pitti> no, that wouldn't help
<carlos> pitti, because de_DE.xpi does not includes any english string
<pitti> carlos: can we do anything without having en_US.jar at that time?
<pitti> carlos: i. e. generate some file that can later be merged against m-f.pot to produce a real de.po?
<carlos> pitti, no
<carlos> unless you want that people get msgids in German
<pitti> carlos: ok, then we can't produce po files in breezy, just the pot
<pitti> carlos: when we have a fully synthetic moz locale pkg builder, we can do this again
<carlos> pitti, we could do that, but implies also changes in pootle
<pitti> but I don't see how this should work with the current packages
<carlos> instead of use the english string as msgid
<carlos> we use the key name
<carlos> but that makes difficult to maintain translations
<pitti> carlos: we need a tool that merges the real pot and the pot with german msgid and empty msgstr to a real de.po
<carlos> pitti, that's 100% impossible
<carlos> to do that the msgids should be the same
<pitti> #: linknotfound
<pitti> msgid "Link not found: \""
<pitti> msgstr ""
<pitti> carlos: so "linknotfound" is the unique key?
<carlos> yes
<pitti> ok, so in theory we could knit together a valid de.po with the keys
<pitti> so that we only need the m-f.pot for updating the moz l10n packages
<carlos> pitti, and how the people knows what they need to translate?
<pitti> carlos: from the pot?
<carlos> linknotfound != Link not found: \"
<pitti> msgid "Link not found: \""
<pitti> that's the template
<carlos> pitti, and the already existing translations? you need to link them to the .pot msgids
<pitti> carlos: ok, lemme look at an actual output from de_DE.xpi first
<carlos> ok
<carlos> pitti, what about OO language packs? are they doable for breezy?
<pitti> doko already uploaded a version that exports sdf files, and pkgstriaptranslations has been changed to export them
<mdz> Nafallo: Burgundavia wanted a new screem; I said it was OK, but a proper request was never sent to James to sync the package
<pitti> Hi mdz 
<mdz> hi
<carlos> pitti, I don't understand that, I thought we agree on forget about .sdf files...
<carlos> pitti, and recreate them on build time
<seb128> mdz: hey
<Nafallo> mdz: oki. I'll see what I can do :-). I guess it's still okey?
<seb128> mdz: I've some new version requests, should I ping on IRC or mail you about them?
<pitti> carlos: doko wasn't happy with that
<carlos> doko, pitti, ok, is the spec up to date with this way to do it?
<lathiat> fabbione: whoah
<pitti> carlos: no, not really
<hughsie> jdbu: ping?
<hughsie> jdub: ping?
<carlos> doko, pitti, mark needs to read the spec and approve it
<carlos> doko, pitti so please, update that part
<mdz> seb128: either way, but email is probably better because you can provide a longer explanation
<pitti> doko: can you please update it since I never really understood the reason for doing it externally?
<mjg59> mdz: I'd like to push irda-utils and wacom-tools to main, if possible - I'm working on getting them to autoconfigure hardware
<mdz> mjg59: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
<mdz> explains how it works
<mjg59> mdz: Yeah. I just wanted to sound it out with you first - the wacom-tools one gets us tablet PC support out of the box, irda-utils is less necessary
<mdz> while there's no particular deadline for moving packages to main, it is a bit late in the game for adding features
<mdz> I'm assuming that in addition to moving to main, you would want them to become part of the default desktop
<mjg59> mdz: Ideally
* lamont-away grumbles at edubuntu-meta
<ogra> lamont-away, ?
<lamont-away> dropped the SCC architectures
<pitti> OMG, fabbione is in the XSF again? :-)
<ogra> lamont-away, i'll add them in the end again... the update script times out on the SCC arches every second time i use it...
<lamont-away> XSF?
<fabbione> pitti: DIE!
<fabbione> :P
<ogra> X strike force
<lamont-away> pitti: LOL
<fabbione> lamont-away: it looks like ogra has problems with ports.ubuntu.com
<pitti> lamont-away: current b-changes is scary :-)
<lamont-away> ogra: I understand...
<ogra> lamont-away, youre not the first one who complains ...
<lamont-away> where did fabbione hide is shiny armor, I wonder....
<lamont-away> infinity: so is mesa -0ubuntu5 going to still require some manual love to build?
<fabbione> lamont-away: i wanted to be nice for the first time in my life..
<fabbione> lamont-away: if that doesn't get fixed by the next upload, i will powerup the sodomotron :)
<ogra> grumpf seb128 is overwriting /etc/gdm/factory-gdm.conf the only way to set a default theme for gdm ? 
<seb128> what about /etc/gdm/gdm.conf ?
<ogra> seb128, both would require a overwrite...
<fabbione> mdz: of all the little X apps, i miss only 4 that i will do tomorrow morning.
<mdz> mjg59: I have doubts about there being enough time before preview to catch any problems caused by it
<fabbione> mdz: i had to wait for others to enter archive as B-D
<seb128> ogra: I don't do anything different from the Debian package anyway
<seb128> ogra: what is the factory used for?
<mdz> fabbione: thanks, will you also add the necessary deps to the metapackages?
<fabbione> mdz: i am not sure if i can manage that by tomorrow..
<fabbione> but i will look at what i can do
<fabbione> one of the packages left is a royal PITA
<ogra> seb128, no idea, i just looked into the package to see how to enable the edubuntu theme there... and i'm not really after overwriting conf files...
<ogra> seb128, but it seems the only way... :/
<seb128> ogra: change the gdm.conf to change the default theme, that's what we do
<ogra> ok
<mjg59> mdz: How about I quickly show you the code logic, and you can see what you think?
<mjg59> I'm happy enough to defer the irda stuff. The wacom stuff would buy us rather a lot of love.
<mjg59> (The code path should be tablet specific)
<mdz> mjg59: I am available for persuasion
<ogra> mjg59, wacom support will be in the next hal anyway...
<ogra> do we really want to go our own path ? 
<mjg59> ogra: In what form? The serial devices need to be setup up. Will hal be doing that?
<pitti> certainly not
<ogra> mjg59, it will detect them and provide the info...
<mjg59> Right. That's what I'm trying to sort here.
<pitti> it can't, privilege-wise
<ogra> mjg59, ah, ok, then you could adjust them later to read from hal :)
<mjg59> ogra: It's one thing to present a known wacom device to the user, it's another to configure the system so it's presented at all
<mdz> doko: why add gcc-3.3-doc to supported?  shouldn't we be able to move -3.3 to universe?
<pitti> mdz: doesn't the kernel still build with 3.3?
<fabbione> nope
<fabbione> 3.4
<pitti> oh, cool
<mdz> doko: also, oo.o 1.x and dictionaries now moved to universe, thanks for your help
<elmo> mdz: grub
<mdz> elmo: breezy-changes
<mjg59> mdz: We walk /sys/bus/pnp/devices looking for something that's WACf004 or WACf005 (which uniquely identify Wacom devices in tablet PCs). Then we check the resources and use setserial to configure an unused ttyS to refer to it.
<doko> mdz: as long as gcc-3.3 is in, gcc-3.3 should be there as well. but grub and libpng have the b-d removed now
<elmo> eww
<mjg59> Then that serial port gets linked to /dev/wacom0 so X has a known point to grab it
<seb128> elmo: please drop ximian-connector, it has been rename to evolution-exchange upstream
<doko> elmo: it did survive an install and a boot
<elmo> seb128: done
<seb128> elmo: thanks
<mdz> mjg59: what's involved in the setserial configuration?
<mdz> mjg59: my primary concern would be discovering systems where the kernel bits have never been configured, and when they are, it hangs the machine or other nastiness
<siretart> elmo: could you please sync util-vserver from unstable? it is needed for new vserver patch, and is universe anyway
<lamont-away> libnurbs/internals/sorter.h:43: warning: 'class Sorter' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
<lamont-away> libnurbs/internals/flistsorter.h:48: warning: 'class FlistSorter' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
<lamont-away> go nurbs!
<siretart> lamont-away: could you please un-depwait transcode on i386?
<mdz> mako: what ever happened with the spell checking stuff?  we seem to still be stuck with ispell :-/
<mjg59> mdz: Well, firstly this will only be executing on tablets (other machines won't present Wacom devices in sysfs)
<mjg59> mdz: At the moment, every tablet requires setserial to be run to configure a serial device
<mdz> mjg59: oh, so normal wacom devices don't show up there ever?
<mjg59> No, only ones that are actually built into the hardware
<lamont-away> siretart: I undepwaited everything an hour or so ago
* fabbione goes to cook dinner
<mjg59> This is information from the BIOS - it won't know about ones that are plugged into standard serial pors
<fabbione> night fellas
<elmo> siretart: done
<mvo> night fabbione 
<ogra> ciao fabbione 
<mdz> mjg59: I'll seed them to supported so we can see if there are any lurking surprises in terms of deps
<mjg59> mdz: Ok. I haven't made the change yet
<mdz> mjg59: if you do the inclusion reports, they can move into main now, and we can discuss later about adding them to desktop once your changes are in
<mjg59> mdz: Ok
<siretart> lamont-away: oh. great. thanks
<siretart> elmo: thanks!
<mako> mdz: as far i can tell, arsen got sidetracked with some university application and didn't do anything the last two weeks
<mdz> mako: our deadline was August 11th, and google's deadline is (I think) September 1st
<mdz> mako: I haven't seen any code from him yet; have you?
<mako> mdz: he claims the ispell stuff is solved but i haven't seen that code either
<mako> mdz: he's got incomplete myspell code but i don't think he implemented the work around he'd discussed either
<mako> mdz: he tried to message me when i was sat the doctor this morning but logged off before i got back
<Burgundavia> mdz, for screem, a request was sent, but screem uses things like dbus and thus the package needed changing, which was beyond my technical ability
<mdz> Burgundavia: the new version of screem won't work in breezy unmodified?
<seb128> current version builds fine with current dbus imho
<seb128> they have 2 dbus case, 0.2 and 0.3
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> it didn't build for me, so I left it
<mdz> Burgundavia: did you find in the course of your test that it didn't build or didn't work?
<mdz> hmm
<Burgundavia> it may have just been me. In any case, I don't really have the spare time anymore to futz with it
<mdz> I have no problem with a new upstream version of screem, but of course it has to be verified to build and work as least as well as the current one on breezy
<mdz> otherwise it just creates work for us
<ogra> pitti, ping, nvu... i worked with \sh on it, your requirement to split out the mozilla source cat be fulfilled without a rewrite... (i'm sure you guessed that) ... what can i do now.... ?  
<pitti> ogra: OMG, please do not intoduce another copy of mozilla code
<ogra> mdz, pitti thinks the current nvu we have cant go to main as it is... what shall i do ? drop it ?
<pitti> ogra: did they reaally modify the original moz sources so heavily?
<Nafallo> mdz: I kickoff a build of the debian sources right now :-)
<ogra> pitti, yes, you cant split it out...
<\sh> pitti: nvu uses a different mozilla codebase then mozilla itself...
<ogra> pitti, all i can do is make it complie with the nspr-dev we have but nothing more... 
<pitti> \sh: that's just plain crazy...
<ogra> pitti, yes
<mvo> pitti: I plan a hal upload to add LaunchpadIntegration to hal-device-manager
<pitti> mvo: cool :-)
<\sh> pitti: nvu is a changed composer addon 
<mvo> pitti: ok, thanks. I just wanted to know if that's ok with you :)
<\sh> and they're using older mozilla code...
<pitti> mvo: oh, sure :-)
<pitti> \sh: but the older code is full of known holes...
* mvo goes to play hockey now
<pitti> we have enough trouble with supporting the official moz code, we can't security-patch the nvu one
<\sh> pitti: but nvu is no browser...thats why..
<\sh> pitti: i will try one thing now...
<mdz> ogra: if it isn't supportable, we can't ship it in main
<pitti> \sh: but it certainly can edit arbirary html documents, right?
<\sh> pitti: i just checkedout the composer component from cvs mozilla...and now I'm moving the nvu composer directory to this base...and see what's happening
<pitti> \sh: so download a malicious page, open it in nvu, and wham, you are f**ed
<mdz> 2 mozilla codebases is already too many; 3 would be worse
<\sh> pitti: don't tell it to me..tell it linspire...who is sponsoring this damn editor
<pitti> mdz: s/2/3/ and s/3/4
<\sh> nvu is worst case 
<pitti> mdz: moz, ffox, tbird
<mdz> pitti: ugh
<ogra> mdz, yes, but we have other html editors... i can either drop html editing at all, go for bluefish (universe), quanta or screem
<mdz> pitti: we need to convince sabdfl and silbs to use a new MUA ;-)
<pitti> mdz: moz still builds nspr and libnss, and epy and co break with ffox' variants
<mdz> ogra: screem is already in main
<ogra> mdz, quanta too
<pitti> mdz: "mutt sucks less" :-)
<ogra> mdz, only bluefish is universe
<pitti> also security wise
<\sh> ogra: quanta is more mature..IMHO
<ogra> \sh, the last times i tested it, it crashed constantly .... but thats a while ago (before edubuntu summit)
<\sh> ogra: well...
* ogra installs quanta
<mdz> fabbione: do you know the difference between DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE and DEBUG_XORG_DEBCONF, if any?
<ogra> \sh, quanta pulls a lot of other stuff in... thats not very nice
<ogra> kfilereplace klinkstatus kommander
<mdz> hmm, the difference seems to be that DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE implies XRESPROBE_DEBUG
<\sh> ogra: yes...kommander is needed
<\sh> it
<\sh> it's the dialog manager..everything is configurable for quanta
<ogra> gah
<ogra> thats SO KDE
<\sh> so u can write your own extentions without knowing qt/kde 
* ogra prefers sane defaults
<\sh> (type of)
<\sh> ok..moved the composer base from nvu-1 to cvs head mozilla tree
<\sh> lets see
<\sh> 1.2GHz how long for nvu?
<ogra> \sh, 2-3h ?
<ogra> depends on your mem
<pitti> \sh: that would be slightly better, but still insane
<pitti> \sh: building against mozilla-dev doesn't work at all?
<ogra> pitti, nope
<ogra> pitti, they use the source code, not the interface.... you cant work with -dev packages here
<pitti> ok
<\sh> pitti: mozilla-dev are interfaces for external apps
<\sh> pitti: but nvu is not an external apps...it uses the sources of mozilla...nvu is the composer component actually
<\sh> ogra: 512m..but the cpu
* ogra GRR's at the broken gnome-panel.... 
<seb128> panel is not broken !
<\sh> ogra: it's fixed since the latest upgrade
<seb128> what is the issue ?
<seb128> update gnome-menus to 2.11.92
<ogra> seb128, 100%cpu usage.... we talked about it this morning already
<ogra> seb128, i dist-upgraded after we talked about sabayon ....
<seb128> dpkg -l gnome-menus ?
<\sh> oh I
<\sh> I'm a stupid 
<\sh> anyways the next reinstall of breezy is coming
<ogra> seb128, ok... 
* ogra upgrades again
<\sh> and I don
<\sh> 't think the inventor of this laptop thought ever, that it can me misused for building mozilla
<ogra> \sh, on my amd64 it takes nearly 2h... but i have a very slow disk...
<\sh> ogra: and i have a burning r200 :)
<\sh> i don't mind...burn in test
<ogra> ARGH
<ogra> quanta uses kdewebdev-doc-html heavily... but thats in universe
<ogra> gah... why does it depend on silly stuff like kfielreplace but not on the documentation that it uses all over the place
<\sh> ok..configure was without any problems
<\sh> ok...make -f client.mk build
<\sh> pitti: lets make a deal...
<ogra> haha
* ogra listens curious what \sh will offer now
<\sh> pitti: if this is working, can we put the nvu component from nvu-1.0 as add tar.gz into mozilla source package...and we create another package from mozilla source?
<\sh> it's only the composer/ dir (i hope so) 
<ogra> \sh, nope... i tired that already...
<\sh> ogra: I know I'm crazy...
<\sh> ogra: no diff...
<ogra> \sh, it didnt build when i tried that with our source...
<\sh> ogra: see...I'm on crack lets try again
<\sh> right now i
<pitti> \sh: sounds relatively sane, as long as the actual nvu code is robust against moz changes?
<ogra> \sh, youre the C++ guy... go ahead
<\sh> pitti: we will see...i mean it's the worst idea I ever have...one thing I was told since the beginning.."never deal with netscape sh*t"
<\sh> and now
<pitti> \sh: but you know the "$foo touched it last" rule, don't you?
<\sh> ogra: u build this source with gcc4 right? the orig nvu sources
<\sh> pitti: go away ;)
<ogra> \sh, yup
<ogra> pitti, i take the blame, since he does it for me
<pitti> ogra: fine for me :-)
<ogra> heh
<pitti> ok, I'm out for a bit
<\sh> pitti: u will here me crying and screaming..
<ogra> hmm, whats wrong with the i386 buildd again ? E: Package debhelper has no installation candidate
<elmo> ignore it, it's a temporary thing that'll auto-correct itself
<ogra> ok, thanks elmo  :)
<\sh> i don't have eggs..but i could fry now eggs on this baby
<ogra> err, since when do we have a ndiswrapper-modules package ? 
<ogra> and why does it depend on kernel-headers... ?
<mdz> ogra: since Hoary or so
<mdz> it's a virtual package provided by the kernel images or by a .deb built by ndiswrapper-source
<elmo> no, it's a source package
<elmo> imported from Debian
<ogra> mdz, i thought is was included in linu-image...
<ogra> linux even
<elmo> ndiswrapper-modules-i386 |      1.1-2 | breezy/universe | source
<elmo> at least that's the only thing matching '.*ndiswrapper-modules.*' in the archive
<mdz> ogra: it is, that's why they provide it
<ogra> thats even older then our ndiswrapper, 1.1-4
<ogra> then there shouldnt be an additional one in universe...
<ogra> (i know our ndiswrapper package in main pretty well and know it doesnt build the modules package, since i need to compile it on every kernel upgrade for amd64)
<ogra> s/ndiswrapper package/ndiswrapper source package/
<mdz> mjg59: presumably toshset wants to be seeded? (it isn't)
<Mez> elmo: ping
<Mez> mdz: ping
<Mez> ogra: ndiswrapper works fine for me through restricted-modules
<mdz> Mez: it's a much better idea to say what you have to say, rather than pinging every few hours.  that way, I can answer you even if you're not around when I see your message.
<ogra> Mez, restricted... ? isnt it in linux-image itself ?
<Mez> mdz: apologies... I was just wondering if maybe we should formalise some way of "requesting" something to be backported officially
<Mez> ogra: er - might be - ... I sorta remember it not being there when I didnt have fglrx... so assumed it was in restricted - might have just been an oversight of mine
<Mez> and elmo: was just wondering if you re-added libgda2 to backports yet, so I can poke someone to clear the dep-wair
<ogra> Mez, but i talk about amd64... its not built for amd64
<Mez> ogra: oh ...
<mjg59> mdz: Yeah
<mdz> mjg59: you know where the seed archive is and stuff?
<mjg59> mdz: Nope
<elmo> Mez: what are you talking about?
<ogra> Mez, and since our source package doesnt build the binary modules package, i have to resort to upstreams source... i have it on my list for breezy+1 to provide a patch for making it available on amd64
<elmo> mez: libgda2 is dep-wait on libpq-dev which isn't in hoary-backports
<elmo> it's not a matter of 'readding' it
<Mez> elmo: I sent you an email to re-add it, we changed breezy deps
<Mez> so that it depends on libpq-dev | postgresql-dev
<elmo> *shudder*
<Mez> I take it you disaprove
<elmo> libgda2 backported again
<JaneW> carlos: ping
<carlos> JaneW, pong
<JaneW> carlos: can you answer for doko on OpenOfficeLocalisation? It is STILL sitting in pending - can I move it to deferred?
<carlos> JaneW, he did some work on it
<carlos> I think pitti should be able to answer that question
<carlos> pitti, ?
<JaneW> pitti:??
<doko> JaneW: you did want to update that, anyway, it's almost done
<pitti> that's rather dokoish
<JaneW> hehe yes
<JaneW> we need to get all these goals sorted, no more yellow or orange allowed
<JaneW> green = good
<doko> you're bashing all together now? ;-p
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> doko: sorry but it can;t be helped, we need to get everything sorted out, so we know what's in and what's out
<doko> sure, it's not yet on green, we cannot test the rosetta interface yet.
<doko> it looks done from the package side (import/export)
<\sh> ok..
<\sh> everything from scratch cvs head is b0rked
<JaneW> doko: do you think it will be deferred to Breezy+1?
<ivoks> mjg59: i see you took 8920
<JaneW> doko: unless it's a must-have and Matt agrees we can wait on it - but still it should be sitting in WIP then
<doko> JaneW: no, it works, and the language updates are done after breezy is out anyway
<gilligan_> short question : where/at what point are DMA modes IDE devices set ? does that happen soley within kernel modules or is that something init script related aswell ?
<JaneW> doko: ok, can I set it to WIP then? At least it doesn;t look like it hasn;t even been started then...
<\sh> gilligan_: #ubuntu please for this questions (/etc/hdparm.conf)
<doko> thanks, yes
<Burgundavia> mdz, is OO.o2 a go for all arches in Breezy?
<gilligan_> \sh, alrite thanks
<JaneW> doko: done
<gilligan_> \sh, well that file does nothing, everything is commented out
<\sh> gilligan_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DMA?highlight=%28hdparm%29 and this really 
<Burgundavia> ogra, is ndisgtk going to make breezy by default
<\sh> #ubuntu :)
<ogra> Burgundavia, nope, its in universe...
<Burgundavia> ogra, ok. I am struggling with writing QuickTourDraft. Hard to do when you have no idea if some features are going to make it
<elmo> mdz: oo.o-amd64 (1) is still in main; should it be?
<jblack> What does it take to get on planet.ubuntu.com ? 
<Burgundavia> mdz, sorry to bug you again. Are windows programs going to be cut from the CD for space?
<Burgundavia> jbailey, talk to jdub and be a member
<Seveas> jblack*
<jblack> Thanks. 
<Seveas> :)
<doko> elmo: yes
<elmo> doko: why?
<jblack> I had "jb" first. :) 
<doko> ahh, no, 2, not 1 ...
<\sh> oh damn..i should brew some coffee
<doko> elmo: I don't see a reason why
<ogra> Burgundavia, i want to have it moved definately for breezy+1 in main... but it hasnt seen widespread testing yet...
<Burgundavia> ogra, ok
<gilligan_> \sh, look.. i'm not inapt to enable dma for devices I'm just interested in understanding how dma settings are determined initialy.. as obviously having correct settings in the first place is better than having hordes of ppl asking why their cdrom drive is slow 
<elmo> ... ?
<Burgundavia> ogra, anything else you see getting into main from you? (new feature-wise)
<ogra> Burgundavia, only the edubuntu stuff...
<ogra> Burgundavia, but thats unrelated to ubuntu quickguide
<mjg59> ivoks: "Took" is not exactly the right word...
<\sh> gilligan_: via /etc/init.d/hdparm and this reads hdparm.conf
<mdz> elmo: no, it shouldn't be, but it didn't show up in anastacia either, so presumably something is depending on it?
<ivoks> mjg59: assigned :)
<ivoks> mjg59: do you need help?
<mdz> openoffice.org-gtk-gnome                      | openoffice.org-amd64 | edubuntu-desktop                         | Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@raw.no>                                                    |          122032 |    412
<elmo> ** edubuntu-desktop has an unsatisfied dependency on ia64: openoffice.org-gtk-gnome
<elmo> ** openoffice.org-debian-files has an unsatisfied dependency on i386: openoffice.org-bin (>> 1.1.3+1.1.4)
<elmo> presumable we can demote oo.o-d-f too?
<elmo> melanie can't see any reason not to
<mdz> yeah, probably the same reason
<mdz> oo.o-amd64 will have a dep on oo.o-d-f somewhere
<ogra> will we have a working ooo2 for amd64 ? 
<\sh> pitti: ping
* pitti waves to \sh
<elmo> ok, I'll demote that
<gilligan_> \sh, ah,okay..  well in my case hdparm.conf has nothing but comments and neither was dma enabled nor was the cd speed set correctly - was just wondering if that is something that needs fixing/correction
<elmo> can someone fix edubuntu-dekstop?
<mdz> elmo: it's already fixed; it's just out of date on ia64
<ogra> mdz, the only one i've seen working was the one doko built manually 
<pitti> gilligan_: that's the default as it should be
<Mez> e;mo: can you clear dep-waits? or is it hjust infinity/lamont?
<\sh> gilligan_: it can happen, that with dma enabled some hardware is failing 
<elmo> oh right
<elmo> crap - I wish there was a better way to handle the ports
<elmo> in germinate
<\sh> pitti: ok...1. doesn't work...neither with our mozilla source package nor with cvs head..(because it's broken) .
<mdz> ogra: worked fine for me on colony 3 / amd64; if it doesn't work for you, you need to report a bug
<ogra> elmo, do you want me to regenerate it for ia64 ?
<pitti> \sh: this seems to be hopeless
<mdz> ogra: no
<gilligan_> \sh, so its expected that drives will just have dma enabled per se ?
<Mez> lamont-away, when you're back I've got a backports package that needs bootstrapping
<\sh> pitti: 2. yes agreed
<ogra> ok
<mdz> ogra: <mdz> elmo: it's already fixed; it's just out of date on ia64
<\sh> gilligan_: no...
<\sh> gilligan_: but we don
<elmo> make: *** No rule to make target `desktop-ia64', needed by `build-stamp'.  Stop.
<mdz> ogra: the source is fine; it simply hasn't been built on ia64
<ogra> Mithrandir, /usr/lib/openoffice/program/setup.bin: error while loading shared libraries: libX11.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<mdz> oh argh
<elmo> no, the source isn't :P
<\sh> 't want to be the faulty distributor who destroyed your hardware :)
<gilligan_> \sh, hehe..
<mdz> ogra: all yours then
<luis> anyone tried today's liveCD? Does it work?
<mdz> ogra: I meant in Bugzilla
<doko> ogra: no, that's crashing too often
<gilligan_> \sh, well parsing the output of 'hdparm -i | grep UDMA' should deliver the supported modes -- if hdparm can be trusted that is
<ogra> mdz, i know... 
<\sh> pitti: so u should tell sabdfl that it's hopeless to maintain 4 different source bases for mozilla...that nvu is a pain in da ... and we should take bluefish, screem or quanta for ogra's sake
<ogra> \sh, we'll take screem or quanta....
<pitti> \sh: ok
<elmo> mdz: was it all of hpoj you were trying to demote and couldn't?
<mdz> elmo: yep
<mdz> elmo: looked like it had a symlink there already for the .orig
<\sh> ogra: if it's ok for u..use one of the two..or both..but nvu is really nasty
<elmo> mdz: ok, fixed
<elmo> mdz: the fix is what you'd expect
<elmo> I demoted oo.o-d-f while I was there
<mjg59> mdz: Nngh.
<JaneW> Thanks for those that have updated their BreezyGoals today, for the remain few who have not yet...
<JaneW> pitti: what we are doing when as much of a goal has been implemented as is going to be, we move it to green, and then add a line in the deferred table detailing the section that didn't get done and isn't going to be done now...
<JaneW> oops, pitti sorry I mean to take you name out these you can ignore that
<pitti> JaneW: ok, I do that for ProactiveSecurityRoadmap
<JaneW> pitti: ok great thanks
<JaneW> pitti: else msg details of deferred section to me and I'll do it for you
<pitti> don't worry, I update it now
<elmo> GO GO GADGET AUTOTEST
<JaneW> For those who still have YELLOW and ORANGE Breezy Goals,  please all update them NOW and progress to implemented what is done, and defer what hasn't made it. Thanks :)
<JaneW> pitti: super thank you
* ogra imagines propellers and little roboter arms coming out of unexpected places at elmo
<mdz> elmo: do you intend to have teri handle this case, or should I be less leery of using rm?
<elmo> mdz: feel free to rm symlinks
<mdz> mjg59: go go gadget LaptopMission!
<ogra> heh
<elmo> mdz: "one day" I may fix teri to do so if it's a symlink, but err, until then...
<elmo> do we have any neato graphing software for dependencies?
<elmo> it'd be fascinating to see why some of this stuff is in main
<elmo> without backtracking through germinate/anastacia/melanie output
<doko> elmo: graphviz
<ogra> doko, rather a neat blender python script to make it 3D :)
<doko> elmo: please accept bsh into universe, package is from unstable, plus ubuntu modifications
<mdz> elmo: apt-cache dotty, but that goes the other direction
<elmo> doko: eh, what do you mean accept it into universe?
<elmo> it just got ACCEPTed, it's not NEW
<elmo> oh, it's in multiverse
<doko> yep
* ogra glares at #13984
<apokryphos> libxrender-dev in breezy doesn't contain libXrender.la, while it should; this breaks the make for many apps
<Keybuk> wouldn't it be great if every piece of software was split up like X?
<Keybuk> a different package for every binary and shared library
<elmo> yeah IT ROCKS
<Keybuk> hell, we could go further, and have a DIFFERENT PACKAGE FOR EVERY FILE!)"($(!!!!!!!!
<\sh> daniels: don't listen to them, pls
* lathiat mumbles something about apt not installign recommends by default
<dredg> use aptitude for that? :)
<lathiat> nah thats not the problem
<lathiat> the problem si that lots of people use apt-get
<lathiat> which means when you have a package like i do where a package woudl be very nice and is more often than not wanted to be used, it works fine without it
<lathiat> but if you remove said package then it will force removal fo said other pcackage.. if it depends. 
<lathiat> :)
<Keybuk> yes, because having an "xclients" package with things like xlogo, xeyes, etc. in it would be so bad
<Keybuk> I WANT xlogo BUT NOT xeyes!
<lathiat> but dude, xeyes is totally much cooler than xlogo
* ogra thinks xteddy showed long ago how to do it right :)
<\sh> xteddy? since when daniels has a hairy chest?
<ogra> heh
<Nafallo> lol
<\sh> sorry...couldn't resist
<\sh> hope daniels never reads the logs
<\sh> ok...last cigarette for today..then bed
<Nafallo> \sh: wasn't you about to quit smoking?
<ogra> \sh, thanks for all the help with nvu, even if it was fruitless, i really appreciate it
<\sh> Nafallo: yes, when i'm 65 ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: baah :-P
* ogra always said he'd stop with 30.... somehow that didnt work
<mako> to who i should refer someone interested in embedded ubuntu
<\sh> ogra: actually there r always 3 solutions..the 1. one.and when the 1. is not working..the 2. but...when the 2. is not working .. the 3. bullet is always the end :(
<mako> someone who wants to help and can
<\sh> ubuntu for fridges?
<ogra> mako, i think jbailey had some ideas about microbuntu
<jbailey> mako: thom and I had chatted about it a bunch, but there wasn't time to get it going.
<ogra> err, seb128 ?
<seb128> ogra: what?
<ogra> seb128, why did my education menu dissappear form the main menu ? 
<ogra> i just noticed it...
<seb128> because you have no item here?
<ogra> seb128, i have 15 edu apps installed here, they are gone with the menu
<ogra> it was there before the last upgrade
<seb128> gnome-menu-spec-test | grep Educ
<ogra> nothing
<seb128> so that's a gnome-menu change
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/edubuntu/shot3.png
<ogra> they were definately there when i took this screenshot this afternoon
<ogra> oh crap
<ogra> all KDE apps are gone
<shackan> gone?
<ogra> from the menu
<ogra> edubuntu uses a mix of KDE and gnome apps... so the KDE apps are needed in the menu... thats a weird regression
<apokryphos> kde-edu stuff there too -- nice. =)
<ogra> seb128, anything i can install to make them appear again ? 
<HiddenWolf> ogra, know of any decent 'learn-to-type' kind of app?
<ogra> oh, even tuxpaint is gone... thats not a KDE app
<ogra> HiddenWolf, is tuxtype to childish ? 
<seb128> debug the bug
<HiddenWolf> ogra, probably. :)
<mvo> HiddenWolf: http://www.gnu.org/software/gtypist/gtypist.html?
<ogra> argl
<ogra> ogra@honk:~ $ locate tuxpaint|grep desktop
<ogra> /usr/share/applnk/Graphics/tuxpaint.desktop
<ogra> /usr/share/gnome/apps/Graphics/tuxpaint.desktop
<\sh> wrong
<ogra> seb128, so i guess /usr/share/applnk isnt read at all anymore
<\sh> /usr/share/applications/kde
<mvo> HiddenWolf: tipptrainer is another one
<\sh> and /usr/share/applications/
<seb128> $ grep applnk /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu
<seb128>   <LegacyDir>/etc/X11/applnk</LegacyDir>
<seb128> it is
<ogra> ogra@honk:~ $ ls /usr/share/applications/kde|wc -l
<ogra> 91
<ogra> hmm
<seb128> oh, /usr/share/applnk
<ogra> seb128, yes thats a bug in tuxpaint... easy fix... but /usr/share/applications/kde should be read i guess..
<ogra> omg
<ogra> why has KED entrys like ioports.desktop  or interrupts.desktop ?
<hno73> HiddenWolf: ktouch? http://ktouch.sourceforge.net/
<\sh> ogra: because they are not menus...
<\sh> ogra: kde deals with .desktop files even for plugins bla
<ogra> \sh, then they shouldnt have .desktop files
<\sh> ogra: well....desktop files in kde are longer available then freedesktop.orgs standards
<\sh> .oO(i think so)
<ogra> thats no reason not to follow the standard.... gnome apps had their .desktop files in other places too before
<\sh> ogra: menu .desktop are in /usr/share/applications/kde for kde in ubuntu...and the rest must be handled differently...but it's only a matter of time
<\sh> ogra: it's a transition ... u know how to handle this ,-)
<ogra> \sh, but i dont *want* to handle that, i have enough to do with edubuntu, no reason to introduce such regressions now... GRMPF
<seb128> there is no regression here
<\sh> ogra: remove menu .desktop from $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/.. and move it to the correct position
<\sh> ogra: the problem is the application
<ogra> seb128, if apps dissapear from my menu, thats a regression... in my eyes
<\sh> ogra: if they're using the correct admin/ it should be supported
<ogra> \sh, for all KDE apps i use ??
<\sh> ogra: depends which kde apps u r missing
<\sh> check the .desktop files
<ogra> \sh, all
<ogra> \sh, i instaled quanta before i upgraded my panel... its gone... the kdeedu stuff as well...
<\sh> ogra: keduca?
<\sh> kdeedu it should be there...
<\sh> moment
<seb128> ogra: do you have a ~/.local/share/desktop-directories/? does moving it out of the way fixes the issue?
<\sh> apt-get install kdeedu
<\sh> argl...
<\sh> what depends on python2.3 in kdeedu?
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> oh damn
<\sh> libboost-python1.33.0
<\sh> damn
<\sh> damnit
<\sh> ok..lets fix this
<\sh> doko: will u fix boost, or should I
<\sh> ?
<doko> \sh: I didn't look, what it's broken
<\sh> doko: boost has python2.3 dependencz
<\sh> -z+y
<doko> ahh, ok, fixing
<\sh> doko: thx
<\sh> how can i restart the panel to load the menus?
<\sh> ogra: please start smeg menu editor
<wasabi_> I just realized that it is WAY too easy to make Vino ask no questions and need no password.
<\sh> ogra: do u see the apps of kdeedu in the smeg menu editor?
<ogra> I HATE MY DSL !!
* ogra calls seb128 bugfixer god :)
<ogra> seb128, remind me to pay you a beer next time we meet :)
<\sh> hmmm
<ogra> yup
<\sh> when updates gnome-panel the menu entries?
<seb128> that was ~/.local/share/desktop-directories/? ?
<ogra> removing ~/.local/share/desktop-directories/ helped, yes
<\sh> like the kde-panel?
<seb128> gnome-panel updates when it gets a gamin event
<\sh> seb128: so installing a package with a new menu entry will never show up until I do what to send this gamin event?
<seb128> nothing, it monitors /usr/share/applications/
<seb128> any file change to this dir update the menu
<seb128> you can touch a desktop file here
<\sh> seb128: i just installed a bunch of files...apt-get install kdeedu..
<ogra> seb128, does it monitor subdirs ? 
<\sh> and the .desktop files are all in /usr/share/applications/kde/
<seb128> not sure if this one is monitored
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 2632 2005-07-20 12:00 /usr/share/applications/kde/keduca.desktop
<seb128> gamin can be bugged again too
<\sh> Categories=Qt;KDE;Education;X-KDE-Edu-Teaching;
<\sh> argl
<seb128> try to change an /usr/share/applications/ desktop file
<\sh> no
<seb128> KDE
<\sh> the standard said..yes
<\sh> this is the bug
<\sh> damn
<ogra> hmm
<\sh> seb128: time interval of the checks ?
<ogra> \sh, there should be no delay
<\sh> moment...let me check something
<\sh> weired
<ogra> touch Desktop/blah.txt gives me the file on the desktop immediately
<\sh> then there is a bug
<\sh> cause when i move the desktop file from kde/ to ../ in /usr/share/applications/ i have it directly
<\sh> a new menu folder and the keduca
<seb128> interval for what?
<\sh> seb128: no...ok...but gamin doesn't check for subdirs
<ogra> seb128, gamin polls
<seb128> gamin doesn't poll
<seb128> it uses inotify
<seb128> or dnotify
<ogra> \sh, for me everything is fine again... since removing .local/share/desktop-directories
<\sh> ogra: i just installed psi .. it installs his .desktop in /usr/share/applicationds
<\sh> and it's there
<\sh> i moved now the keduca.desktop from /usr/share/applications/kde to /usr/share/applications...and it's just plopp there
<TerminX> err...
<TerminX> /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/components/libgfx_gtk.so: undefined symbol: pango_xft_get_font_map
<\sh> but any other kde app which installed the .desktop in /usr/share/applications/kde/ it's not showing up...and I removed the KDE category from the .desktop
<\sh> TerminX: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13881
<TerminX> \sh: what's that page say?
<\sh> TerminX: this is the bug
<TerminX> does it have a fix?
<seb128> and it got assigned to me :(
<\sh> TerminX: yes and no..
<TerminX> \sh: elaborate, please
<TerminX> I'd check it out myself, but Firefox isn't working ;)
<\sh> ------- Additional Comments From mjd77@cam.ac.uk  2005-08-22 21:34 UTC -------
<\sh> This bug appears to be caused by libgfx_gtk.so being linked without -lpangoxft-1.0.
<seb128> use epiphany-browser?
<\sh> I have built firefox with this added, and it repairs the bug.
<TerminX> I don't have epiphany installed, seb128 
<seb128> install it
<TerminX> rol, wtf
<TerminX> normal mozilla works
<\sh> seb128: can it be the problem described by mjd77?
<seb128> I don't get why it builds if it doesn't find some symbols
<seb128> $ ldd /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/components/libgfx_gtk.so | grep pango
<seb128> what do you get with that?
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> shermann@toshiba-laptop:/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/components$ ldd libgfx_gtk.so|grep pango libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 (0xb79c0000) libpango-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpango-1.0.so.0 (0xb7965000) libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 (0xb783e000)
<TerminX> neat, overwriting Firefox's libgfx_gtk.so with the one from Mozilla itself works as a fix too
<\sh> seb128: but for me this is only not working under kde ... in gnome it's just fine
<seb128> TerminX: thanks for not helping to fix the issue
<\sh> strange
<TerminX> seb128: I wasn't aware you required help to fix it, what do you want me to do? ;p
<TerminX> re-break the installation of Firefox and run the ldd command?
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> by example
<TerminX> [terminx@echelonvii components] $ ldd libgfx_gtk.so | grep pango
<TerminX>         libpangoxft-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpangoxft-1.0.so.0 (0xb78c3000)
<TerminX>         libpangox-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpangox-1.0.so.0 (0xb78b8000)
<TerminX>         libpango-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpango-1.0.so.0 (0xb7883000)
<TerminX>         libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 (0xb77a4000)
<TerminX>         libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 (0xb745c000)
<seb128> hum
<TerminX> oh, wait... WTF
<schweeb> I take it I'm not the only one struggling withthe pango_xft_get_font_map thing
<TerminX> Firefox runs now, but not a single character renders
<\sh> schweeb: kde or gnome?
<schweeb> gnome
<\sh> hmm...that's weired
<schweeb> w/ mozilla-firefox, on breezy, latest upgrades
<\sh> i get the crash only in kde...others are getting them in gnome
<schweeb> had to install epiphany just to be able to use a browser at all
<wasabi_> p - a - n - g - o and pango was his name-o
<schweeb> but oddly enough, thunderbird isn't effected
<TerminX> schweeb: it's not odd, they have separate versions of the library
<schweeb> ah
<schweeb> I should be doing real work, instead I'm dicking around w/ firefox :P
<TerminX> as I found out a minute ago, if you copy a working version over the broken Firefox version things seem to work
<seb128> $ nm -D /usr/lib/libpangoxft-1.0.so | grep pango_xft_get_font_map
<seb128> 00003006 T pango_xft_get_font_map
<\sh> yes
<\sh> right
<schweeb> TerminX: where is a working version located at plz?
<\sh> give me 2 mins...to check again on kde
<TerminX> schweeb: locate libgfx_gtk.so
<mez_> mdz: you still working on mythtv?
<schweeb> TerminX: can the tbird one be copied over it safely then?
<TerminX> schweeb: the Thunderbird version will probably work, I used the Mozilla one
<schweeb> k
<schweeb> thanks
<TerminX> yep
<seb128> hint: if everybody workaround instead of helping to fix it that's not going to be automagically solved
<schweeb> seb128: sorry, just trying to finish working for the day, I'll help out in an hour
<TerminX> seb128: he said he had to get work done
<\sh> ok..now
<\sh> directly at start
<\sh> shermann@toshiba-laptop:~$ firefox
<\sh> /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/mozilla-fire                               fox/components/libgfx_gtk.so: undefined symbol: pango_xft_get_font_map
<schweeb> TerminX: well, it gets farther!
* schweeb installs mozilla
<TerminX> seb128: I'm not trying to discourage people from helping or anything, and I realize that people who rely on Breezy to be productive, well, shouldn't, but yeah :p
<seb128> use epiphany guys
<\sh> TerminX: for production there is hoary until octobre
<TerminX> \sh: hey, I'm not the one relying on it for production :p
<\sh> TerminX: who?
* TerminX glances at schweeb
<TerminX> :D
* schweeb hides
<schweeb> all I need is a browser, NX, and tsclient
<schweeb> so, I run breezy
<TerminX> whoa, I just saw this totally HOT chick putting up the horns in this Maiden concert
* TerminX backtracks
<\sh> schweeb: try kde...if it's working for me on gnome...actually it will work for u on kde ,)
<\sh> switching back to gnome
<schweeb> \sh: "schweeb: gouge your eyes out" is what I just heard
<schweeb> :p
<schweeb> TerminX: the moz lib works though
<TerminX> heh
<\sh> well..no error here with firefox
<seb128> I've a patch to try, hold on
<seb128> graaa
<\sh> ahhhh
<\sh> moment
<seb128> who made a native package from firefox?
<seb128> WTF
<mjg59> gcc-4 is the default compiler now, yeah?
<\sh> and seb128 
<elmo> mjg59: yes
<\sh> seb128: after restarting gnome..gnome-panel has the kdeedu apps in the menus
<mjg59> Right. So now I need to fix acpid so that it actually builds.
<seb128> RAHHHH
<seb128> 40M of firefox to download 
<{Seb}> who does the evolution package building?
<\sh> seb128: don't worry...i did it 4 times today...ok..3 source packages of mozilla,firefox and nvu and one cvs checkout of nvu
<TerminX> 40 megs isn't a whole lot..
* mjg59 does an acpi-support upload of doom
<seb128> for a fix on the debian menu entry that's a lot
<seb128> {Seb}: me
<seb128> seems to be my day :/
<{Seb}> seb128: i'm having problems building evolution-data, can you help
<pitti> seb128: chmj did not fix it correctly?
<pitti> seb128: also, it's not a native package for me (1.0.6-1ubuntu9, proper orig.tar.gz)
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(ECAL_GLUE_DIR)/e-cal-glue-comp.h' is in subdirectory
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(ECAL_GLUE_DIR)/e-cal-glue-comp.c' is in subdirectory
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(ECAL_GLUE_DIR)/e-cal-glue-recur.h' is in subdirectory
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(ECAL_GLUE_DIR)/e-cal-glue-recur.c' is in subdirectory
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(ECAL_GLUE_DIR)/e-cal-glue-recur-util.h' is in subdirectory
<seb128> pitti: graaaa
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(ECAL_GLUE_DIR)/e-cal-glue-recur-util.c' is in subdirectory
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(EBOOK_GLUE_DIR)/e-book-glue.c' is in subdirectory
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(MAIL_GLUE_DIR)/Evolution-DataServer-Mail-common.c' is in subdirectory
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(MAIL_GLUE_DIR)/Evolution-DataServer-Mail-skels.c' is in subdirectory
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(MAIL_GLUE_DIR)/Evolution-DataServer-Mail-stubs.c' is in subdirectory
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(MAIL_GLUE_DIR)/Evolution-DataServer-Mail.h' is in subdirectory
<seb128> STOP FLOODING
<seb128> STOP FLOODING
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(MAIL_GLUE_DIR)/e-mail-remote-glue-marshal.c' is in subdirectory
<pitti> stop spamming the channel!!!!
<seb128> STOP FLOODING
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(MAIL_GLUE_DIR)/e-mail-remote-glue-marshal.h' is in subdirectory
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(MAIL_GLUE_DIR)/evolution-mail-sessionlistener.c' is in subdirectory
<seb128> any op?
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(MAIL_GLUE_DIR)/evolution-mail-sessionlistener.h' is in subdirectory
<TerminX> quick, shoot him in the face!
<lathiat> mjg59: nice
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Makefile.am: not supported: source file `$(MAIL_GLUE_DIR)/evolution-mail-storelistener.c' is in subdirectory
<\sh> dman
<{Seb}> automake: glue/Make
<{Seb}> whoops!
<ozamosi> Pastebin!
<{Seb}> sorry sorry sorry
<mjg59> At this point it'll be impossible to stop it
<{Seb}> wrong channel
<seb128> kick this guy
* {Seb} kicks himself in the face
<sedak> which version of automake is it ?
<TerminX> {Seb}: your soul's gonna burn in a lake of fire.
<seb128> pitti: Get:2 http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main firefox 1.0.6-1ubuntu8 (tar) [40.2MB] 
<sedak> <= 1.4 ?
<seb128> pitti: /me apt-get update
<pitti> seb128: ubuntu9, chmj fixed the manpage link and the debian menu
<pitti> seb128: and tar only means orig.tar.gz, don't worry :-)
<seb128>  firefox (1.0.6-1ubuntu8) breezy; urgency=low
<seb128>  .
<seb128>    * Fix debian menu entry and man page link
<seb128>      - closes (#13824) <Danilo Piazzalunga>
<seb128>    * update Standards Version 3.6.1 -> 3.6.2
<seb128> 
<seb128> that's 8
<{Seb}> 1.4
<pitti> seb128: erm, 8, right; sorry
<pitti> seb128: I did some changes on my box, which were 9
<Burgundavia> seb128, did the totem-mozilla plugin die for a reason?
<sedak> it's the pb i think
<seb128> pitti: why does it trash my existant orig to redownload it?
<seb128> Burgundavia: no, bug you can look the build log for it if you want
<sedak> i believe automake1.4 doesn't support compliation of something in subdir
<pitti> seb128: that's a bug that often annoys me, too; it seems to work sometimes, though
<sedak> smothing like that
<Burgundavia> seb128, ok
<pitti> mvo: any idea ^ ?
<seb128> pitti: usually it works
<pitti> seb128: for me it works very seldom...
<mvo> pitti: what problem exactly?
<seb128> mvo: why does apt-get source downloads the orig again if I already have it?
<pitti> mvo: apt-get source re-downloads an orig.tar.gz (and diff+dsc, but that's unimportant) even if it is already there and has the same md5sum
<pitti> mvo: that's annoying and wastes bandwidth
<mvo> pitti: always? it seems to skip already downloaded bits for me? if you can reproduce it, can you run it with "-o Debug::pkgAcquire::Worker=true" and send/msg me the log?
<pitti> mvo: not always, but always more often :-)
<mvo> pitti: heh :) it should do a If-Modified-Since test
<pitti> (bad translation, I know, but you know the beer spot)
<mvo> (in theory at least)
* lamont grumbles at lrm - did 2.6.12-4 get replaced with somethingn that actually fits into the archive on amd64?
* mvo knows the beer spot
<pitti> mvo: why not just compare the md5sum to the one in the dsc?
<Burgundavia> seb128, the build-logs for -ubuntu3 show it as being enabled
<mvo> pitti: good point, I guess because nobody implemented it that way yet
<mvo> but it would be worth adding
<pitti> mvo: "that way"? it seem the most obbious solution to me... how is it implemeneted right now?
<seb128> mvo: http://rafb.net/paste/results/P2Srra74.html
<pitti> obvious, even
<pitti> mvo: it could compare file size before to speed it up
<Burgundavia> seb128, my untrained eye sees nothing that breaks obivously
<mvo> pitti: I haven't looked at the exact code yet, but I'm pretty sure it just sends a "If-modified-since" http header to the server 
<pitti> mvo: urgh, that looks totally like the wrong way - what if I locally modified it?
<seb128> Burgundavia: 
<seb128> checking for dbus-binding-tool... no
<seb128> configure: WARNING: dbus-binding-tool not found
<seb128> Burgundavia: that's the issue, I'll fix it
<Burgundavia> seb128, cheers, thanks
<Burgundavia> seb128, oh, it uses dbus to talke back and forth
<seb128> right
<tseng> is there a work-around for firefox not starting?
* tseng things of what seb will say and installs ephy
<seb128> using epiphany
<seb128> :p
<\sh> hihi
<tseng> seb128++
<seb128> I've uploaded a patched version
<\sh> i can't even spell epyphnie 
<seb128> not sure if it works, I take a guess and uploaded before building it :)
<seb128> firefox is too long to build
<\sh> ok time to go to bed for me...as i said 3 hours ago
<\sh> cu tomorrow
<\sh> g'night
<mvo> night \sh_away 
<jdub> jbailey: ping
#ubuntu-devel 2005-08-28
<jdub> cripes, breezy-changes a-go-go!
<mjg59> jdub: Whole lotta acpi love
<jdub> rawk
<jdub> hmm, looks like i'll be syncing OOo2 again. grr. ;)
<Keybuk> heh
<Keybuk> how far back you reading
<Keybuk> it took me all weekend to get the words "Rebuild with the new cairo version." out of my head
<jdub> heh
<jdub> that was yesterday's seemingly never-ending update
<jdub> today's is big too, given the new gnome releases
<Keybuk> today had fabbione uploading every single file that used to be part of X as a separate package
<Keybuk> xlogo
<Keybuk> xlogo-manpage
<Keybuk> xlogo-config-file
<Keybuk> xlogo-changelog
<jdub> xlogo-themes
<Keybuk> xlogo-translations
<rtcm> btw, would be nice to have a metapackage 'x-clients' or something
<rtcm> to pull all of those
<jdub> doesn't xbase-clients do that?
<jdub> at least for the relevant ones?
<rtcm> hmm maybe but I still had to install xlsfonts and xset
<Keybuk> xlsfonts isn't that relevant these days
<rtcm> but xset still is handy 
<Keybuk> I think we actually disable bitmapped fonts in fontconfig now
<Keybuk> is there anything xset does that gnomeyconfigshit doesn't?
<Keybuk> I guess you can fiddle with the exact pitch and timbre of ^G, always useful
<rtcm> sure, but sometimes when gnome catches me pants down, xset is nice to debug things. oh well not relevant, forget...
<jdub> xset is useful to set up single purpose thin clients and the like
<Keybuk> personally I think they should all be in one package; the loss from extra dpkg control files is probably already over-balancing the space savings
<rtcm> actually xset is used in /etc/acpi/power.sh
<jdub> seb128: having fun? :)
<Keybuk> rtcm: heh, there's a bug there then
<rtcm> Keybuk: and btw, xset as currently in breezy does no longer have the dpms option...
<Keybuk> has anyone actually filed a bug on that?
<elmo> postgres 13963 97.6  1.5 306292 32972 ?        R    21:37 110:32  \_ postgres: katie projectb [local]  DELETE                     
* elmo <3 postgres
<Keybuk> postgres rocks your world, and you know it
<elmo> yes taking two hours to run a do-nothing DELETE query really does ROCK MY SOCKS
<seb128> jdub: I hate firefox :p
<seb128> jdub: out of this, yeah :)
<jdub> seb128: just doing a big mirror sync now, the next one is going to be big too :)
<seb128> I've just removed OO.o2 here to dist-upgrade :p
<Keybuk> elmo: and that's just running katie
<Keybuk> imagine how sweet launchpad is
<Keybuk> maybe that's why launchpad _never_ DELETEs
<pitti> elmo: is that without an index? (i. e. delete command with an indexed field in where)
<elmo> I've no idea what it's doing
<elmo> I'm waiting for it to finish so I can see what queries actually being run
<mdz> seb128: are you working on launchpad-integration for firefox?
<mdz> Mez: marginally; I don't have time for it
<seb128> mdz: I've started to look on that but I've no clue on how firefox works
<seb128> that's on my list for tomorrow/wednesday (ie: before UI freeze)
<seb128> pitti: do you know how firefox menus work? :)
<pitti> seb128: no, sorry
<seb128> :(
<pitti> seb128: usually quite well :-)
<mdz> seb128: what about oo.o2?
<doko> elmo, mdz: please remove amd64-libs, all packages are now sucessfully built using the biarch toolchain. should the replacement packages be promoted to main, or should they stay in universe?
<pitti> yay
<seb128> mdz: utch, was not listed on the wiki. I put that on my list for next 2 days too so. 
<mdz> doko: do you have some bandwidth available to help with LPI of oo.o2?
<seb128> doko: do you hack on oo.o2 by any chance? :)
<doko> seb128: no, not much. mdz: bandwith = time? what is it about?
<wasabi_> Cool noticed the xen upload.
<seb128> doko: putting 2 menus item to the help menu for launchpad integration like on the other desktop apps
<elmo> doko: what about ia64-libs?
<doko> ugh, in every single OOo app ... 
<seb128> doko: they probably build the help menu the same way for every one, no?
<doko> elmo: I don't see any ia64-libs ...
<elmo> ok, '-r libs' is a bad thing to ask madison
<seb128> mdz: can we sync gaim-encryption/universe (2.37 to 2.38)? The current version crashes gaim
<mdz> doko: what shall we do with mozilla-openoffice.org?
<mdz> seb128: yes
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> elmo: please sync gaim-encryption
<doko> mdz: I did promote to desktop, didn't I?
<elmo> seb128: done
<seb128> elmo: thanks
<mdz> doko: it is still in anastacia as of the most recent germinate run
<mdz> doko: ah, you wrote oo.o-mozilla rather than mozilla-oo.o
<elmo> doko: oh, err, right I mean ia32-libs, of course
<mdz> doko: fixing
<doko> sorry
<mdz> doko: well I agree that it is backwards :-)
<mdz> elmo: hrmm, I just ran cron.sync and it seems to have missed the kubuntu seeds?
<doko> elmo: ia32-libs cannot be dropped yet. we currently don't build glibc biarch, the ncurses/bzip2 packages are disabled for biarch and64, and there are probably more packages in ia32-libs. afaiu mdz doesn't want to push for it now
<elmo> bah, I'm running cron.sync
<mdz> elmo: oh, ok
<elmo> yay lack of locking
<mdz> elmo: it's ok actually I think
<mdz> elmo: the anastacia run that cron.sync printed was fine
<mdz> but then the one my cron job ran got the weird output
<elmo> doko: why hasn't atlas gone away?
<elmo> I thought that bunch of python syncs was meant to kill it, but numarray is still b-d-ing it
<mdz> argh, oo.o wants to come back to main
<doko> elmo: numarray came into the archive today. maybe it needs another anastacia run?
<seb128> 'night
<elmo> what the hells' going on
<elmo> how did we ever kick it out?
<elmo> kubuntu-desktop still depends on it
<elmo> doko: no, I just checked breezy's sources file
<elmo> err, I'm on crack. gar.
<mdz> elmo: is that ia64 lagging again?
<mdz> maybe we need to stop considering ia64
<elmo> mkubuntu-desktop |       0.48 |        breezy | amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
<elmo> the problem with not considering ports is that anasatcia then wants to demote all the arch specific stuff like elilo
<mdz> elmo: 0.48 doesn't depend on openoffice.org
<elmo> yeah, okay, I think our two cron.sync runs clashed in funky ways
<elmo> openoffice.org                                | openoffice.org                  | kubuntu-desktop                         | Debian OpenOffice Team <debian-openoffice@lists.debian.org>                           |         6848108 |           28756
<elmo> once this apt-ftparchive run is done, I'll rerun cron.sync
<mdz> weird
<Mez> mdz: It's coming up at the moment as not being compiled with any form of output
<mdz> Mez: parse error
<mdz> elmo: ready for cron.sync?
<elmo> mdz: running it now
<Keybuk> oh SWEEEEEEEEET @ ubuntu-devel
<elmo> also adding some locking
<Keybuk> someone's managed to get "eth1 mac 00:00:00:00:00:00" into their /etc/iftab
<Keybuk> (rename the loopback device)
<Mez> mdz: ?
<Mez> mdz: I'm getting the error "2005-08-23 01:19:46.703 Not compiled with any useable video output method.
<Mez> " when trying to run mythtv
<mdz> elmo: is something strange happening with ports.u.c?  the metapackage update scripts are hemorrhaging packaging
<mdz> s/packaging/packages/
<mdz> Mez: that error message means what it says
<elmo> mdz: ogra claims it's timeing out for him
<elmo> mdz: maybe that's related?
<mdz> it's not timing out for me, but I get W: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/breezy/main/binary-hppa/Packages.bz2 was corrupt
<mdz> for everything on ports.u.c
<Mez> mdz: yes, but i just recompiled it myself and it had opengl and x11 output added
<mdz> Mez: then your build environment is not the same as the buildd environment
<mdz> Mez: \sh touched it last
<mdz> elmo: looks like maybe Release/Packages desync, assuming debootstrap checks that these days
<elmo> god DAMN it
<Mez> mdz: according to the output from configure in the buildd logs, it is... and both from the buildd and building myself are reporting same errors
<elmo> why do I believe people when they say "please process it straight into main"
<elmo> LIARS ALL OF YOU
<elmo> mdz: aiee, germinate still thinks oo.o is a dependee of kubuntu-desktop
<elmo> I hate it when the world goes mad
<mdz> Mez: you cannot tell that from the build logs
<jdub> jbailey: around?
<mdz> Mez: and you  just told me a moment ago that it works when you build it yourself
<Mez> mdz: no - I said it DOESNT work when I build it myself
<Mez> I meant that ./configure shows those ...
<Mez> for both myself and the buildd
<mdz> Mez: I'm sorry but I don't have time to mess with it.  if you can't figure out the problem, ->#ubuntu-motu
<mdz> it's a multiverse package
<Mez> no probs mdz
<mdz> elmo: the best part is that when debootstrap fails saying the Packages file is corrupt, it exits successfully
<elmo> haha, neat
<jdub> mdz: should we have debmirror in main?
<elmo> I don't know how I can fix the desync on ports.u.c really
<elmo> hum
<jdub> $ lscomponent universe
<jdub> adzapper
<jdub> debmirror
<jdub> liblockfile-simple-perl
<jdub> mpg321
<jdub> squidclient
<jdub> xplanet
<jdub> 
<jdub> the perl module is for debmirror
<jdub> squidclient should probably be in main with squid
<jdub> the others aren't important
<elmo> mdz: where's this script running and when?
<mdz> elmo: is the packaged debmirror a sane and useful thing to use for mirroring ubuntu?
<mdz> elmo: it's run by hand when preparing a new version of *-meta
<mdz> ./update in the source package
<jdub> you just pass ubuntu-sane command line options to it
<jdub> debmirror --progress --verbose --nosource --host=archive.ubuntu.com --root=$ROOT --method=$METHOD --dist=hoary,hoary-updates,hoary-security,breezy,breezy-updates,breezy-security --section=main,restricted --ignore-missing-release --arch=i386 /srv/archive.ubuntu.com
<elmo> mdz: it needs some defaults updated
<mdz> elmo: it does debootstrap --arch %s --print-debs %s debootstrap-dir %s
<elmo> mdz: but it's as useful as it is in Debian otherwise
<mdz> elmo: how useful is it in Debian?  I don't use it
<elmo> mdz: if you want to mirror just one suite, it's super useful; if you want to mirror one arch and not fuck around with annoying rsync include/exclude magic, it's sueful
<mdz> is it the canonical way to mirror?  or do people mostly just use rsync?
<mdz> ah
<elmo> it's the de fact way to mirror partially
<elmo> facto
<elmo> full mirrors usually use rsync
<elmo> I'd be more of a debmirror fan boy if it weren't for it's current Maintainer: field
<jdub> also good for making update CDs :)
<elmo> it was originally written by joeyh tho, not the current Maintainer:
<tseng> jdub: hm is rsync open to all comers?
<mdz> I think the trouble with debootstrap is that it doesn't do the max-age magic that apt does
<mdz> so it doesn't deala with caches properly
<mdz> it works more often when I don't pass it through squid
<jdub> tseng: yeah
<elmo> mdz: ok, kubuntu-desktop depends on openoffice.org on ia64
<elmo> or is this why you're investigating the ports.u.c stuff?
<elmo> and sparc for that matter
<mdz> elmo: no, I just happened to be doing metapackage updates at the same time
<mdz> elmo: but ia64 should get the same treatment as other ports.u.c citizens
<elmo> mdz: the only one excluded is hppa
<elmo> and that's because lamont kept having me flush the archive
<mdz> elmo: actually now that I look...
<elmo> I suppose I could  just drop ia64 and sparc and affirmative action their arch-spethial packages
<mdz> I had assumed that ia64 was crap and couldn't manage to build a trivial package in 3 days
<mdz> but in fact it WAS caused by the ports.u.c issue
<mdz> kubuntu-meta didn't pick up that change for ia64 until I refreshed it just now
<mdz> other arches got it when I did my august 12 update in fact
<mdz> so 10 days would have been complete crap
<mdz> but in point of fact I have no idea how this happened
<mdz> anyway the kubuntu-meta upload I did 2 minutes ago will fix it
<mdz> once it's built
<elmo> ok, cool
<mdz> elmo: how does the magic work to get the uber-germinate-output on jackass?
<mdz> the union of ubuntu, edubuntu, kubuntu
<elmo> mdz: it's all in cron.sync?
<elmo> it's the >> DESKTOP and >> ALL stuff
<mdz> oh
<mdz> I would expect there to be lots of duplicates in ALL with this method
<elmo> sure?
<mdz> and there are, but I didn't notice before
<elmo> but for what I use it for (generating Task: and anasatica), I don't care
<mdz> I was wondering whether it would be easy to have anastacia know _which_ Supported seed it was talking about
<elmo> hmm, yes, it would make tracking this down easier
<elmo> fwiw, cron.sync keeps the indvidual ones in output/tmp/ to make trackbacking at least possible
<elmo> Subcommand 'diff' doesn't accept option '-u [--show-updates] '
<elmo> Q#"$YTG#2#R%
<mdz> elmo: just whisper 'bzr' to yourself quietly until it passes; that's what I do
<mdz> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<mdz>   ubuntu-desktop: Depends: contact-lookup-applet but it is not going to be installed
<mdz>                   Depends: gnome-pilot-conduits but it is not going to be installed
<mdz>   ubuntu-live: Depends: language-support-en but it is not going to be installed
<mdz> ^^ livefs builds failing
<mdz> language-support-en is due to openoffice.org-dictionaries binaries, which moved to universe
<mdz> which makes no sense because they showed up in anastacia...
<mdz> why does openoffice.org2-dictionaries not build anywhere near the same binaries as openoffice.org-dictionaries?
<elmo> <random guess> wasn't that one of the problematic parts of oo.2, i.e. they needed java or something non-free or something?</>
<mdz> dunno, but the suggests etc. on oo.o2 still point to the oo.o1 package
<mdz> s
<mdz> I'm moving it back to main for now and will email doko
<mdz> gnome-pilot-conduits seems to be an amd64-specific problem
<mdz> contact-lookup-applet is uninstallable everywhere according to ~cjwatson/testing/
<mdz> this is causing the d-i kernel and livefs kernel to be out of sync, which is bad
<jdub> hrm, ubuntu-minimal is not really all that minimal, hey
<schweeb> does anyone know how often netboot images are built? were there some built for colony 3 or does it even matter?
<Mez> schweeb, email cjwatson@ubuntu.com  - he's the DI person
<schweeb> k
<elmo> netboot images are built both daily and as part of a d-i upload
<elmo> see dists/breezy/main/{daily-,}installer-$arch/
<slomo> elmo: please sync gcl from debian... this version finally works with gcc 4.0
<`anthony> So since the recent kernel upgrade, my ethernet is screwy. I move from work (where I use a wired ethernet with b44 driver) to home (where I use a wireless ipw2200 card). When I come back into the office now, I can't get dhclient to detect any packets from the ethernet, and have to reboot to make it better. Any ideas? should I log a bug?
<Mez> `anthony, are you suspending? andare you bringing down the wireless
<frest0n> hello i have a new patch i'd like to submit to the ubuntu team
<Mez> frest0n, what package?
<`anthony> Mez: Yes, suspending. And the wireless is down, and comes back after unsuspend, I then bring it down again.
<Mez> hmm
<frest0n> a patch to fix broken SSH package
<Mez> suspending is probably the problem.. I've found it can cause problems
<Mez> but ...
<`anthony> Mez: plus of course I still get the 'lo' disappears after an unsuspend, but that's been there for ever.
<Mez> `anthony, have you tried an
<`anthony> Mez: But it worked fine until the most recent kernel upgrade.
<Mez> sudo ifdown wlan0 
<Mez> sudo ifup eth0
<Mez> frest0n, wha'ts "broken"?
<frest0n> using sudo has been deprecated in future ubuntu releases
<`anthony> Tried that (well, using eth1, as that's the wireless card)
<spacey> frest0n, is it?
<Mez> frest0n, I seriously doubt that
<`anthony> Just poking around now trying to figure out how to downgrade to the kernel I had a week ago now...
<frest0n> yes because there is a better package that does the same thing
<frest0n> "kde-super"
<spacey> lol
* Mez bangs head on keyboard
<Mez> jjg lsgdh] #
<frest0n> ?
<frest0n> kde-super accomplishes all of that sudo does but more securely
<spacey> more securely?
<frest0n> yes
<spacey> why is that :p
<Mez> frest0n, where did you get this info from: as I cant seem to find it anywhere
<frest0n> um. rtfm
<Mez> frest0n, so ... you got this from the .... manual?
<jdub> frest0n: please don't say 'rtfm' in ubuntu forums
<frest0n> why not?
<frest0n> sometimes you gotta tell the n00bs to do that
<jdub> no, you don't; it's inappropriate in the ubuntu community
<frest0n> well go fuck yourself you self-righteous prick
<jdub> well, that's very inappropriate
<jdub> we have a code of conduct, please read it :)
<jdub> it's important to maintain harmony in our community
<frest0n> wtf?
<frest0n> what kind of hippie BS is that?
<Mez> frest0n, how is a MOTU a n00b?
<frest0n> are you some kind of freakin flower child?
<Mez> frest0n, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct/
<jdub> no, this is how we ensure our community is open and approachable
<frest0n> why?????
<frest0n> redhat never needed this garbage
<frest0n> wtf is all this crap needed for
<jdub> we're a community project
<lu|away> because having a community is a good thing? :)
<HrdwrBoB> frest0n: rather than alienating new users, we try to help them, creating a bigger and nicer community
<spacey> and its nicer in general ^_^
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o Keybuk]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o jdub]  by Keybuk
* mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o Keybuk]  by Keybuk
<Keybuk> hmm, I really shouldn't listen to Radio 2 at this time of night
<Keybuk> I'm getting weirded out by the fact the DJ sounds remarkably like Ronnie Corbet
<LaserJock> does anybody know how I can see if someone is working on updating a package?
<Keybuk> LaserJock: there isn't a way, first one to upload wins
<Keybuk> other than asking here, of course
<LaserJock> well, that kinda sucks, oh well. I just saw that Scigraphica has had its firs new release in 4 years and I thought it might be nice to update it
<LaserJock> *first
<Keybuk> we're past upstream version freeze now
<LaserJock> I know, I was just wonderint how the process would go for Breezy+1 or breezy backports
<elmo> well, scigraphica's in universe
<Keybuk> if there's killer features, major bug fixes, or you can justify it somehow; you may be able to get it updated
<elmo> and UVF isn't applied as strictly to universe
<elmo> but it is a) modified for ubuntu, b) doesn't have a newer version in Debian anyway
<Keybuk> * Tightened build-depend on defoma (>= 0.8,11ubuntu2)
<LaserJock> well, i've never really done any real packageing but as I am a scientific linux user I kinda like haveing some of the newer scientific packages around
<Keybuk> oh, there's some other stuff in an "ubuntu1" which for some reason, I never saw a changes file for
<Mez> hmm - if I want to break UVF for universe to make something actually work... 
<Mez> who do i speak to to try and get authorisation
<jdub> Mez: it's not strictly enforced for universe
<Mez> jdub: I know :d but it's still nice to get permission off of someone :D
<LaserJock> I think the latest Scigraphica got some cool new stuff (GTK+2 instead of GTK+1 and has a new plugin system)
<Keybuk> that's a good justification :p
<Keybuk> mmm GTK+ 2
<LaserJock> well, could I email the maintainer (David Schleef) and ask him? or is that rude ;-)
<jdub> LaserJock: ds is a nice dude, if you updated to the new version and sent him a patch, i'm sure he'd appreciate it
<Mez> does libxv need to be declared anywhere in your xorg.conf
<caldwell_> i'm trying to figure out why X crashes when I use XVideo (using ati driver).  I ran gdb /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg-debug <pid> and opened Totem to crash it, but it didn't dump the core.  All i've got was a segmentation error and line number in radeon_video.c.  
<caldwell_> Any ideas how i can figure out what causes it?
* jdub2 wonders how people can use gaim for irc
<Keybuk> s/ for irc//
<jdub> i use it for multiple IM servers
<jdub> it's not the most wonderful ui
<crimsun> tbh (and I know this is off-topic) its layout seems more sane than x-chat's
<jdub> but i look forward to galago fixing that
<Keybuk> I want gossip-for-msn
<jdub2> yeah
<jdub2> have you see gajim?
<Keybuk> I looked briefly, but didn't like it
<jdub2> ui or code?
<Keybuk> ui
* jdub2 thinks doing an IM client with pygtk makes the most sense
<Keybuk> I'm hoping for Robot101/robtaylor's effort
<jdub2> libgaim based stuff?
<Keybuk> rewriting gaim from the ground up based on dbus and stuff
* robitaille likes gajim ever since \sh blogged about it
<jdub2> hopefully that involves some galago loving
<daniels> \o/ dbus
<Keybuk> lots of galago love
<Keybuk> the intent is that it'd be for the 770
<jsgotangco> i still like the simplicity of gossip
<jdub2> aha
<jsgotangco> ohhh
<jdub2> if i could get network presence information going, that'd be even nicer
<Keybuk> I wish they'd hurry up and release those things
<jdub2> are they contracting for nokia too?
<Keybuk> not sure, they were definitely trying to do that
<jdub2> wonder what nokia would think about using aim/msn/etc
<Keybuk> they had many meetings while in Helsinki
<jdub2> nice
<Keybuk> the nice thing about the 770 is you could be "always on" AIM/MSN just like SMS
<jdub2> yeah
* wasabi thinks doing an IM client with Mono makes the most sense.
<daniels> presuming you have blanket wifi coverage everywhere you visit
<daniels> and don't leave home for more than four hours a stretch or whatever it is
<Keybuk> daniels: it has bluetooth for phones too
<wasabi> the nokia should be a cell phone.
<Keybuk> so you can just use gprs
<daniels> Keybuk: yeah, because that helps with battery life
<Keybuk> wasabi: no point... nobody likes holding a brick to their ears
<jdub2> it will be interesting to see how the product fares, and whether it pushes them towards open hardware/software for their phones
<wasabi> Nobody told the SideKick guys.
<lamont> mdz: anything else before I roll the livecd script?
<lamont> (besides 13788)
<Keybuk> the blackberry and hiptop suffer from being too small to be useful "devices"
<jdub2> Keybuk: n770 with cellular bits in it, plus bluetooth earpiece
<Keybuk> and communicator suffers from being too big to be useful phones
<wasabi> Keybuk, I would seriously use the n770 with a bluetooth earpiece
<wasabi> in a heartbeat
<caldwell_> are you the -devel?
<daniels> that is not an indictment on phones'pdas in generally
<wasabi> yeah what jdub said
<daniels> it's just an indictment of really big combos
<daniels> you can make them small if you want to
<wasabi> I like having that amount of funcationaly in a device, but yeah, I don't want to hold it to my ear.
<jdub2> i think the failure is in the mobile user experience in general
<daniels> the problem there wouldn't be size -- not in the least
<daniels> it would be the price point you'd be at
<Keybuk> jdub2: it'd be bigger and suckier on battery life, fwiu
<Keybuk> in a few years, maybe
<daniels> up with the ipaqs that do quad-band gprs as well, which is approximately $texas
<daniels> Keybuk: again, bluetooth.  you lose.
<jdub2> any of these mobile thingies are like little islands cut off from the rest of the digital planet
<Keybuk> why is bluetooth "lose" ?
* jdub2 wants to help gnome/maemo fix that
<Keybuk> seems to work well for me, I use it for several things
<wasabi> I will be buying a 770 as soon as I can.
<wasabi> Simple as that.
<wasabi> Heh.
<wasabi> It'll be neat to customize it myself.
<jdub2> i'm not sure it's going to have a huge consumer audience though
<daniels> Keybuk: bluetooth loses on battery life
<jdub2> so does wifi
<Keybuk> daniels: why moreso than 802.11?
<Keybuk> I'd have thought 802.11 was more loss because it's higher power
<daniels> no more so than 802.11, but you were pushing bluetooth as 'blanket connectivity holy shit'
<daniels> which, hate to break it to you, it isn't
<daniels> because it dies before you've had your second drink
<daniels> and your phone's dead from the bt as well, so you're in fact entirely uncontactable
<Keybuk> my phone manages a day or more with my headset
<wasabi> We should get blanket microwaves to power our devices.
<Keybuk> my headset manages about the same time too
<wasabi> Or I'd wear a solar panel on my head to keep it going
<daniels> one day is abysmal battery life
<Keybuk> I get maybe just a bit less than a day using phone+bluetooth from my laptop to get on the net (via gprs)
<wasabi> My phone goes about 5 days.
<daniels> i get seriously annoyed if I have to charge my phone more often than once a week
<wasabi> No headset though
<Keybuk> *shrug* it's a lot longer than the average interval between charges
<Keybuk> I tend to plug it in whenever I'm at home
<HrdwrBoB> daniels: my k700i needs charging at least twice a week
<jdub2> also, power adapters need to die
<jdub2> we should be charging everything with usb or something
<Keybuk> jdub2: k750i does that :p
<daniels> HrdwrBoB: mine goes about five to seven days between charges
<jdub2> it's insane how many power adapters we have to deal with
<Keybuk> I was very amused that it came with a USB adapter, and when plugged in both acts as a USB storage device (what doesn't, these days?) and charged from it
<daniels> Keybuk: so you go somewhere for more than 12 hours and you're screwed
<daniels> Keybuk: i love this universal connectivity plan
<Keybuk> daniels: a day = 24
<Keybuk> and I don't think I've ever spent 24 hours away from somewhere with a power socket
<daniels> Keybuk: ok, so you're precluded from leaving your house for more than 24 hours if you want to remain contactable ...
<wasabi> Keybuk, hahah
<Keybuk> admittedly, there's a lot less places without them in the UK
* jdub2 cries without jbailey
<Keybuk> (compared to .AU where there are areas larger than the UK without any power :p)
<HrdwrBoB> also an inverter for the car helps with that
<Keybuk> trains have power sockets, most malls have a phone charge point, etc.
<jdub2> i am generally closer to a power point than a car ;-)
<HrdwrBoB> though 12VDC->240VAC->5VDC and 16VDC is TERRIBLE ineffecient
<HrdwrBoB> *Y
<daniels> if your solution involves an inverter for my hypothetical car, you have lost
<daniels> so far I'm needing to charge my 770 around six times a day, and my phone once a day
<wasabi> Ahh good. Totem-gstreamer shows subtitles
<daniels> doesn't sound like I can actually go anywhere in the first place, which seemed to be the point of this whole 'universal coverage' pallaver
<Keybuk> who'd you blag a dev one off?
<wasabi> And audio! 
<lifeless> whats a 770 ?
<wasabi> Yay totem-gstreamer has more features than totem-xine!
<jdub2> lifeless: nokia 770
<Keybuk> lifeless: www.nokia.com/770  and where have you been the past few months?
<lifeless> the maemo thing ?
<Keybuk> yah
<jdub2> lifeless: the righteous hardware i mentioned in my talk the other night
<lifeless> jdub2: you talked ?
<wasabi> Can't seem to get the video's metadata though
<lifeless> I was playing pool ;0
<jdub2> i did a talk after pasc
<lifeless> oh right yes, I remember that
<HrdwrBoB> daniels: seven times a day?
<lifeless> I just didn't know the number
<daniels> Keybuk: i don't have one, I'm saying in this hypothetical world where I'm always reachable when I'm out, provided I bring two chargers and spend the whole night sitting near two power points
<HrdwrBoB> *six
<HrdwrBoB> hardly worth unplugging
<daniels> HrdwrBoB: working from a battery life of four hours when actively using wifi
<HrdwrBoB> oh, ouch
<HrdwrBoB> wtf bother
<wasabi> uh oh. Paused totem-gstreamer. Now I can't unpause it.
<HrdwrBoB> better off with a real laptop
<wasabi> totem-xine wins again
<jdub2> HrdwrBoB: not once the mobile user experience is improved
<Keybuk> daniels: four hours is more time than I'd generally spend out of the house with it
<Keybuk> actively browsing
<jdub2> i don't want to carry around a full laptop, but i do want to be connected
<Keybuk> that's less than the amount of time to go shopping, or to go to the gym, etc.
<Keybuk> it's more than, say, to go drinking and clubbing -- but I'm not going to be caring about connectivity doing that :p
<Keybuk> going to London for a sprint, there's power on the trains and I'd be carrying charger anyway
<HrdwrBoB> power on the trains is very cool, we're lucky if our trains have airconditioning, or in fact, GO
<lifeless> Keybuk: actually, I recall you finding pubs with gpr
<lifeless> s
<lifeless> connectivity matters ;0
<Keybuk> lifeless: pubs with wireless
<Keybuk> they're pretty common in the UK
<Keybuk> most chain pubs have it
<Keybuk> but on a saturday night, that's not what I look for :p
<Keybuk> (not that I go out these days, but you get the idea)
<jdub2> looking for different chains
<daniels> Keybuk: assuming people are sending you messages and shit and you're sending keepalives, you're going to spend more time with the radio on than off
<Keybuk> daniels: right, but the four hours quoted is "radio on all the time"
<daniels> i still think it's not even worth considering until that improves six-fold
<Keybuk> zero-point-energy is the way forward
<Keybuk> none of these silly chemical batteries
<Keybuk> just tap the raw ambient energy of the universe
<Keybuk> works everywhere without recharging :p
<daniels> the 770 is an awesome device, and I'll certainly be getting one
<jsgotangco> like a Seiko Kinetic watch
<daniels> but like hell it's a solution for universal connectivity
<daniels> if people need to SMS me when I'm out at a bar somewhere, they can SMS me
<Keybuk> jsgotangco: that's just kinetic energy :p
<daniels> right now, the whole IM solution you posited *does* *not* *work*
<lifeless> keybuk zpe is most useful as a /dev/random provider ;0
<jsgotangco> its good for a watch anways
<mdz> lamont: nothing else in the livecd script queue at this time, thanks
<Keybuk> daniels: why not?  given the constraints I gave (going shopping or to the gym)
<lamont> mdz: ok
<Keybuk> those are both well within the maximum battery life of the device
<daniels> Keybuk: if you need to get to me so urgently that you can't wait until I've gone to the supermarket, you can bloody well call me, else it's not that urgent
<daniels> Keybuk: it doesn't stand up to leaving the house for things that are not shopping or gym
<Keybuk> such as?
<Keybuk> maybe I'm getting old and not leaving the house much :p
<daniels> put it this way
<daniels> on saturday night, i went out.  i left the house for dinner at about 7, went to an awesome bar for belgian beer, then on to a cocktail bar, and i was home by about 4:30am.
<daniels> that's a good 9.5 hours
<daniels> if I wasn't working during the day and instead decided to go out, see some friends, do some random shopping, whatever, that could just as easily have been 16 or more hours
<lamont> mdz: kubuntu build happened 1 hr ago with the old script, ubuntu & base will happen in 1 hr (and 1:45) with the new script.
<lamont> mdz: want another kubuntu run with the new script?
<Keybuk> OF COURSE, FIRST IT'D BE NICE IF MY F!*^CKING ISP COULD KEEP ME CONNECTED
<daniels> Keybuk: your ISP is trying to tell you that your plan is the suck
<Keybuk> I excluded Saturday nights from my plan
<Keybuk> really, what I want to be able to do, is nip out and go to the gym in technical board meetings when pitti brings up the subject of language packs
<ds> mdz: in your maintainer opinion, how would you rate user-mode-linux on a scale of rock-solid-stable to not-worth-the-bits-its-made-of?
<daniels> mdz: please kick x-common into bugzilla as a component, and remove libgl*-xorg*
<fabbione> morning
<Keybuk> bella! fabbione!
<dieman> nifty
<dieman> just read a book proposal for a possible book on ubuntu.
<dieman> pretty soon we will see 50-bazillion ubuntu books next to the fedora core ones.
<dieman> (watch out)
<fabbione> bella Scott
<dieman> re: scrollback -- I just keep my fujitsu p7010 (mmm, new laptop) around with me and an EDGE card much of the time.  when I dont, just have the palm zire 72 and a bluetooth phone handy
<lathiat> anyoen know mvo's email on bugzilla to assign a bug to him
<jdub2> lathiat: just put in mvo, if it needs to disambiguate, it'll give you a nice page to do so
<lathiat> jdub2: ah ok
<lathiat> err
<lathiat> i think fwmvo@yahoo.fr is not correct
* lathiat tries michael.vought
<jdub2> vogt
<lathiat> michael.vogt ?
<daniels> yeah
<lathiat> thats better
<lathiat> found michael.vogt@ubuntu.com
<daniels> people assign shit to daniels at the time
<daniels> i'm daniel.stone
<lathiat> sorry random french yahoo person
<jdub2> maybe we should stick in some aka fields :)
<jdub2> malone will do that pretty nicely
<jdub2> at least with email addresses
<lathiat> yeh thatd be handy
<lathiat> heh giving people lathiat@bur.st as an email
<lathiat> they always ask if its .com
<jdub2> i really like the existing bugzilla disambiguation stuff tho
* lathiat hugs import tax
<Treenaks> jdub2: have you had time to look at planet ubuntu bugginess yet? :)
<jdub2> nup
<jdub2> elmo: please delete the planet ubuntu cache
<mdz> daniels: I have resynced bugzilla with the germinate output and granted you editcomponents privileges
<Treenaks> jdub2: thanks :)
<mdz> lamont: I want another everything with the new script, if the desktop is installable now
<mdz> lamont: it wasn't the last time I tried
<mdz> ds: to be honest I stopped using it about a year ago and I can't give you a reasonable assessment of its status now.  at that time it had been stuck in an "incredibly useful if only..." state for quite some time
<elmo> jdub2: err, won't that flood planet?
<jdub> no
<jdub> if you want, just kill the foodfight one
<elmo> ok, done
<jdub> thanks
<Keybuk> is PU using Planet 0.1 or 1,0?
<Treenaks> 1.0~pre1
<jdub> Treenaks: i'd suggest you replace your rss flavour with mine, btw. yours is crack.
<Treenaks> jdub: ok.. where do I find it?
<jdub> www.gnome.org/~jdub
<jdub> there's a hacks page linked from there
<b3nw> fglrx is in breezy ya?
<b3nw> in restricted modules
<Treenaks> b3nw: yes
<b3nw> hmm k thx 
<Treenaks> whoa, feedvalidator.org is _slow_ today
<Treenaks> jdub: but anyway, feed adapted & installed
<jdub> lathiat: would it be possible to build without libdaemon, perhaps dropping the feature (running as a daemon)?
<lathiat> jdub: does it really hurt?
* jdub looks at the reverse depends :-)
<Keybuk> libdaemon ?!
<Keybuk> wtf ...
<lathiat> actually libdaemon is one of the few actually required depednencies
<lathiat> the rest just make it nicer. :)
<jdub> lathiat: so if SMF on linux happens, most apps won't be forking and running as daemons in the traditional sense
<lathiat> jdub: SMF?
* Keybuk wonders whether the author read the same wrong example code in Stevens for his signal handling
<jdub> lathiat: sun's very tasty init framework
<lathiat> Keybuk: of libdaemon?
<lathiat> jdub: interesting, all the apps will still need to run on other systems tho :)
<Keybuk> lathiat: yeah; most "generic, done right" daemon code I've ever seen uses the same damned wrong example from Stevens
<lathiat> Keybuk: hrm uh dunno
<lathiat> Keybuk: whats the wrong bit? i'll look :)
<Keybuk> (for handling CHLD signals)
<Keybuk> assuming that the OS will issue a SIGCHLD for every child signal
<lathiat> apt-get source libdaemon and have a look :)
<lathiat> im not sure
<fabbione> elmo: please reject bitmaps
<fabbione> (forgot a B-D)
<lathiat> does mut have a reply to all option?
<jdub> lathiat: G
<jdub> er, 'g'
<Keybuk> lathiat: doesn't look like it includes child signal handling at all
<Keybuk> always worth a giggle; Stevens apologised in UNP for the bogus code in APUE
<fabbione> elmo: and xbiff please..
* fabbione should take more coffee....
<lamont> mdz: OK - dunno if kubuntu is installable, but I'll toss the script into the list
* fabbione slaps himself
<fabbione> elmo: ok.. reject only bitmaps.. xbiff is ok
<lathiat> Keybuk: heh
<lathiat> jdub: thanks
<fabbione> elmo: sorry about the confusion
<lamont> mdz:   ubuntu-live: Depends: language-support-en but it is not going to be installed
<lathiat> ooh someones doing an LWN article
<jdub> on avahi?
<lathiat> yeh
<jdub> very nice
<jdub> joe or jon?
<lathiat> joe
<`anthony> daniels: a solution to your laptop power complaint? http://knowledgenews.net/moxie/discoveries/pee-is-for-power.shtml
<lathiat> is there any way to detect when a machien goes to sleep?
<lathiat> or at least, when it wakes up from
<daniels> `anthony: heh
<mdz> lamont: that's odd; I fixed that several hours ago
<mdz> germinating...
<lamont> well, that was the 0415DC kubuntu build with the old script
<lamont> ubuntu-live is building now
<lamont> that is, rootfs is
<lamont> if that works, I'll fire off a kubuntu-live
<lathiat> ooh kubuntu-desktop is installable again
<fabbione> checking for setusercontext... no
<fabbione> does anybody remember what provides that thing?
<lathiat> it seems to be a bsd thing from google
<fabbione> yeah thanks
<mae> whats the status on howl
<bob2> non-free
<mae> ic
<lathiat> mae: http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi
<niran> is anyone else getting BadRequest X errors from pygtk programs on breezy?
<mae> looks nice :)
<mae> will avahi be in breezy or is it deferred to the next version?
<lathiat> im hoping to sneak it into universe
<mae> This sure is an exciting time for linux :) what with all the promising stuff up and coming that will attract new users... ubuntu for common people.. mono/ruby/python for developers.. and dbus/hal to implement a plethora of new technologies.. and _finally_ get laptops working decently with power management features
<lathiat> wow, sabayon is cool
<mae> ya sabayon is neat too :)
<mae> it sure seems that we are gonna have a buttload of gtk sharp apps in a year or so
<Keybuk> there's a buttload of them now
<lathiat> jdub: 07:43 < CIA-2> gentoo: swegener * gentoo-x86/net-dns/avahi/avahi-0.1.ebuild:
<lathiat> jdub: that was quick :)
<mdz> infinity: how much more libgl transition stuff remains to be done?
<infinity> mdz : For main, none.
<mdz> infinity: ah, pike7.4 is in universe.  yay.
<infinity> mdz : For universe, some stuff is still lagging behind on the last GLU transition from eons ago.
<mdz> infinity: is someone on MOTU looking after it?
<infinity> In the interest of not having half of universe FTBFS on our test runs, I figured I'd hit a bunch of them.
<infinity> MOTU has a wiki page about it, but they don't appear to have done much so far.
<infinity> Oh, and main is one binary build/upload (evolution-exchange on powerpc) away from being finished with the cairo2 transition too.  Yay.
<infinity> If I hear the word "transition" again in this release cycle, I may scream.
<infinity> That is all.
<doko__> we're going to transition to zope2.8
<mdz> infinity: it will feel good to have them all out of the way for dapper ;-)
<infinity> dapper?
<Treenaks> infinity: Dutch (probably Afrikaans too) for "brave" :)
<mdz> doko: new oo.o2 build-deps? eh?
<infinity> Treenaks : I know what the word "dapper" means, I was aksing for context.
<Keybuk> infinity: breezy+1
<mdz> infinity: er, i mean breezy+1. sshh. ;-)
<infinity> ie: I assume this means that breezy+1 has been named "Dapper D___" while I wasn't paying attention to politics. :)
<Keybuk> dragon, isn't it?
<Keybuk> it might be donkey
<Keybuk> it was silbs name, iirc
<Keybuk> YOU CANNOT BLAME ME FOR THIS ONE
<infinity> Dapper Donkey reminds me of Shrek.
<ajmitch> it'll be all over the forums in 15 minutes then
<Burgundavia> doubt it
<Burgundavia> few of you read it and few from there come here
<ajmitch> there are some
<daniels> dapper donkey?
* ajmitch reads, but doesn't post on the forums
<Keybuk> Treenaks: "smartly dressed" would be the English
<doko> mdz: already in the OOo2 source, now built from system libraries
<Treenaks> Keybuk: hmm
<Burgundavia> dapper is also well mannered, usually applied to wealthy young ladies men
<Treenaks> there used to be a Dutch TV series in the 1950s and 1960s called "Dappere Dodo"
* Keybuk tries to remember what the cuddly dragon aboard Canonical One is called
<Keybuk> mdz: any clue?
<mdz> Keybuk: Norm
<mdz> if I recall correctly
<Keybuk> no, Norm is the dragon painted on the outside
<mdz> oh, they're different?
<Keybuk> yeah, they have different names
<mdz> well hell
<Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/travel/2005/australia/canonical-one/canonical-one-022.jpg
<Keybuk> ^ norm (and elmo)
<Treenaks> Konqi?
<Burgundavia> only 51 hits for dapper dragon
<Keybuk> no, it's a girl's name iirc
<lifeless> its a girl
<lifeless> definately
<Keybuk> lifeless: can you remember what she's called?
<lifeless> nope
<lifeless> ;[
<lifeless> :[
<Burgundavia> 1 hit for donkey
<Burgundavia> which apparently is a piece of music by Harold Brunt
<lifeless> dapper dildo ?
<Burgundavia> 2 hits for that
* infinity looks puzzled.
<infinity> elmo / mdz : Is cron.daily not completing?... I've had binary uploads that (afaik) aren't NEW that have been sitting in "Uploaded" for ages.
<Burgundavia> mdz, when is the official announcement of the name, etc?
<Keybuk> I didn't think we ever officially announced the names, they just turned up on the archive
<Keybuk> admittedly, this was last time due to a heavy period of trying to change the name before anyone found out about it
<Burgundavia> the breezy one?
<pitti> Good morning
<Keybuk> breezy was very nearly _bendy_ badger
<Burgundavia> ah
<Keybuk> and before that was grumpy groundhog
<daniels> yes, and after that effort, we let scott into the distro team
<daniels> obviously our hiring policies have slipped
<daniels> Keybuk: and no, jdub emailed one of the lists and said '... announcing breezy badger!'
<Keybuk> not my fault
<Burgundavia> they can't have slipped that far, they haven't hired me
<daniels> Keybuk: hoary and breezy were both announced when they were open for the ravenous hordes
<Keybuk> I was indicating how silly our release names could get
<Keybuk> Mark just liked my example
<fabbione> Keybuk: that's why it's better you stay silent once in a while ;)
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, it might be the end of it all
<mdz> Keybuk: and in spite of this you were snatched from the jaws of launchpad
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, just might be. Canonical should hire you
<fabbione> mdz: can you please REJECT bitmaps?
<Keybuk> mdz: I served my time, my debt to the community, etc.
<infinity> fabbione : Why?  Just upload a fixed one.
<mdz> fabbione: my katie-fu is weak
<fabbione> mdz: ok
<fabbione> infinity: too lazy... 
<mdz> fabbione: 3 hours ago I might have summoned the chi to do it
<infinity> You're... Too lazy to upload a package with fixed build-deps, so you'd rather have someone reject it?
<infinity> Dude.
<infinity> Wow.
<infinity> Buck passing has never been this good.
<mdz> fabbione: is this the same xbitmaps which anastacia wants to move to universe?
<fabbione> infinity: it's because i already have -1 resigned..
<fabbione> mdz: bitmaps B-D xbitmaps
<infinity> And you can't reversion it to sometihng like, oh, I dunno, -2?
<Keybuk> oh, baz was waiting for me to enter a passphrase; makes a change for _it_ to be waiting for _me_
<fabbione> mdz: and why did xbitmaps landed in main in the first place?
<mdz> fabbione: not sure, that's elmo magic
<daniels> i asked for xbitmaps to move to main
<fabbione> infinity: there is for sure something wrong with daily. i did an upload 40 minutes ago and didn't show up yet
<daniels> because xbase-clients or something will depend on bitmap which will dpeend on xbitmaps
<fabbione> ahhh
<infinity> mdz : Can you check if cron.daily on jackass is hitching up and hating life?
<fabbione> mdz: i only have one package left out of all that mess
<mdz> infinity: I can make a reasonable effort in that direction
<daniels> s/move to/be placed in/
<fabbione> mdz: that'd be xdm that's a massive FTBFS
<infinity> mdz : Hey, it's either you, or you give me access to jackass and we can hear elmo sobbing from overseas.
<mdz> infinity: queue/accepted is looking awfully full
<infinity> I suspected this, yes.
<infinity> Looks like it hasn't been running for hours.
<infinity> (Or HAS been running for hours, which would be even worse)
<mdz> E: gnbd-client in breezy is in the overrides more than once.
<mdz> starting at ~0700
<fabbione> i swear that's not my fault
<mdz> BST
<mdz> this happened once before
* infinity golf claps.
<fabbione> gnbd-client is from RH cluster suite
<daniels> fabbione: so you broke the archive
<fabbione> meh no
<fabbione> i blame the GTK interface to katie
<mdz> elmo should be awake in a couple of hours
<Keybuk> hmm, I got some changes files only 25 and 30 minutes ago
<Keybuk> in fact, the last three changes files are all from infinity
<mdz> this isn't something I want to screw with at this time of night
<fabbione> Keybuk: it looks like some goes, others don't
<Keybuk> yeah
<mdz> Keybuk: things are getting ACCEPTed, but after that...
<Keybuk> elmo probably needs to stroke it lovingly
<Keybuk> actually, given how fast our days go by, it could just be katie's time of the month
<infinity> mdz : elmo's only been idle for 2 hours, I don't think he's coming back anytime soon.
<mdz> infinity: oh, this could totally be his fault then :-P
<infinity> mdz : Quite possibly, yes. :)  You don't trust your ftpmaster-fu enough to fix the overrides?
<mdz> infinity: no
<mdz> first I would have to learn where they are stored
<mdz> ok, so I think I figured that out, but using vi on them is an entirely different story
<doko> pitti: please could you review the first three items in MainInclusionReportOOo2Deps ?
<daniels> mdz: natalie does that, doesn't it?
<daniels> mdz: (it comes from the db, and gets synced to text files later.)
<mdz> natalie and I have not been introduced yet
<daniels> natalie, mdz.  mdz, natalie.
<daniels> natalie likes thai food and long walks along the beach.
<daniels> mdz likes walking up walls with his feet and quirky electronic music.
<daniels> now go!
<pitti> doko: gar, I saw the new b-deps; will review them asap
<mdz> daniels: I don't know about natalie, but I'm not slutty enough to get intimate after that introduction
<doko> pitti: the first three are needed for the next upload
<daniels> mdz: you don't have to get intimate, just take her out to dinner and bring some gerberas or something.
<Keybuk> touch dak/rohypnol
<daniels> Keybuk: this is why you are not allowed near our archive tools.  bad scott.
<Keybuk> hey, I set up our original katie installing ya know
<daniels> that would explain why it's now broken :P
<Burgundavia> mdz, was serpentine not moved to desktop seed?
<Keybuk> ok, so elmo laughed and immediately wiped it and started again
<Keybuk> but hey, that's just a detail
<daniels> haha
<Keybuk> the funny thing is he actually asked if it'd be ok
<mdz> Burgundavia: ages ago
<mdz> Burgundavia: er
<mdz> no, that was to supported
<mdz> ogra: PING
<pitti> hi carlos 
<carlos> pitti, hi
<mdz> Burgundavia: are you planning to stay awake until ogra wakes up? ;-)
<Burgundavia> mdz, possibly
<Burgundavia> we do live in the same timezone
<mdz> I thought this was already done
<mdz> and ogra marked it done on the goals page
<jsgotangco> its not in Colony 3
<Burgundavia> mdz, if I see him I will check with him about it
<mdz> jsgotangco: yes, clearly it isn't
<\sh> morning
<\sh> hmmm...I think our customers are loving me now...just destroyed the SDT
<lathiat> jbailey: about ?
<Mithrandir> good morning
<Treenaks> hi
<sivang> morning all
<sivang> does anybody know what should I do if I try to run gnomemeeting inside a chroot, and it can't find gconf keys? (I installed some gconf packages, it didn't work)
<sivang> error is "GnomeMeeting got an invalid value for the GConf key "/apps/gnomemeeting/general/gconf_test_age"."
<mvo> morning seb128 
<seb128> hey mvo
<pitti> Hi seb
<seb128> hey pitti
<sivang> bon jour seb128 , moins pitti, mvo 
<sivang> seb128: I get this when trying to test my hack on gnomemeeting under the chroot "GnomeMeeting got an invalid value for the GConf key "/apps/gnomemeeting/general/gconf_test_age".
<sivang> seb128: I seem to have the gconf packages installed, what's missing?
<daniels> yo yo sebarino, pitti, mvo
<Mithrandir> elmo: can you sync older versions?  I would like to have ia32-libs-gtk 4 synced into hoary-updates.
<seb128> sivang: gconftool-2 -R /app/gnomemeeting should have a lot of keys
<Treenaks> ok, who broke the wiki? :)
<seb128> you? ;)
<Treenaks> seb128: nah, not likely
<seb128> not me neither :)
<Treenaks> seb128: I'm not saying it was you
<robitaille> Treenaks:  according to #launchpad "launchpad going down for a production update"
<Treenaks> robitaille: ah... ok
<sivang> seb128: bah, it's empty
<seb128> Treenaks: I've not said you did :)
<seb128> sivang: killall gconfd-2 and try again ?
<pitti> "The authentication database is temporarily unavailable. Anonymous access only."
<pitti> hmmm?
<sivang> seb128: k
<pitti> this trashed my current wiki edits
<sivang> well, they should have announced in advance, no?
<pitti> does anybody screw on the wiki ATM?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Treenaks> We were just in the process of re-planning the DutchTeamSpurt
<Burgundavia> lp has gone down for a production update
<Treenaks> because it was in the weekend of 5-6 November
<sivang> seb128: I guess it gets confused by the chroot? should it be bound to the host system's gconf database or doesn't it matter?
<pitti> hrmpf
<sivang> seb128: i kilall'd , still no go
<seb128> sivang: what are you trying to do with a chroot?
<seb128> sivang: the schemas has to be installed, the package does that
<pitti> doko, mdz: hunspell, mythes, and portaudio are fine for main (and required for ooo build); I just can't update the wiki right now
<fabbione> mdz: still around?
<pitti> doko, mdz: I filed two bugs for hunspell and mythes to build shared libs; if that happens by breezy, main inclusion is fine
<doko> pitti: ok, I'm addressing this for this week.
<pitti> thanks
<\sh> grmpf...fixing gwydion-dylan
<Burgundavia> ogra, !
<Burgundavia> ogra, should serpentine not be in desktop seed and thus installed by default?
<ajmitch> morning ogra 
<ogra> morning
<Burgundavia> ogra, oh and good morning
<pitti> Hi ogra 
<ogra> Burgundavia, isnt it ? 
<Burgundavia> ogra, nope
<ogra> hey pitti 
<Burgundavia> mdz asked me to talk to you about it
<jsgotangco> its not in colony
<ogra> hmm, i thought it was seeded long ago
<Burgundavia> so did mdz
<sivang> seb128: can I apt-cache search for the schems packages?
<seb128> there is no schemas package
<seb128> the schemas is a file shipped with the apps
<sivang> seb128: I see, so the gnomemeeting package should have installed that, apparently.
<seb128> it does
<seb128> dunno what you hack with your chroot
<sivang> I didn't hack it much, really, even when installing the package from the archive I get this error
<mvo> ping ogra 
<ogra> pong mvo
<Mithrandir> ogra: can you test with a newer ia32-libs, please?
<ogra> Mithrandir, sure :)
<jdub>  /lastlog jdub
<jdub> bah
<Gman> <Gman> jdub: you are such an aussie poofter
<ajmitch> heh
<jdub> heh
<Burgundavia> jdub, have had a chance to look at the -users issue?
<jdub> Burgundavia: i'll reset the password
<Burgundavia> jdub, ok, cheers. FF also has a lovelly bug about saving only one admin password for all pages
<Mithrandir> seb128: you mind if I do contact-lookup-applet, or are you already on it?
<daniels> BenC: g'morning.  any chance I could convince you to merge some happy fun DRM patches so we get r300 DRI support as well as fix a few stability issues?
* mvo would love to see r300 patches as well
<seb128> Mithrandir: what about it?
<lathiat> as would i
<sivang> Gman: interesting, can this log be sent to a file? ;-)
<Mithrandir> seb128: it needs a rebuild, it appears
<seb128> new libebook soname?
<seb128> go ahead if you want, I was planning to wait on the new version
<lathiat> *again* ?
<Mithrandir> seb128: ok
* ogra wondrs where his ubuntu-meta upload has gone
<ogra> elmo, ping
<pitti> ogra: version?
<\sh> infinity: ping...wxwidgets 2.6. looks like it's missing one pango magic dep
<ogra> 0.67
<ogra> pitti, i have nothing from katie
<seb128> is firefox fixed for the people who had it crashing on pangoxft yesterday ?
<ogra> u ubuntu-meta_0.67.tar.gz upload.ubuntu.com Tue Aug 23 11:03:05 2005
<ogra> u ubuntu-meta_0.67.dsc upload.ubuntu.com Tue Aug 23 11:03:06 2005
<ogra> u ubuntu-meta_0.67_source.changes upload.ubuntu.com Tue Aug 23 11:03:06 2005
<ogra> s ubuntu-meta_0.67_source.changes upload.ubuntu.com Tue Aug 23 11:03:06 2005
<lathiat> mm bluez security bug
<\sh> seb128: i will test it on kde after lunch
<pef> hello
<Mez> ogra: can I get permission to break UVF in universe for the mythtv stuff
<\sh> Mez: which version?
<ogra> Mez, isnt that main ? 
<\sh> Mez: 0.18.1?
<pitti> ogra: I can't see any reason
<lathiat> ogra: its multiverse
<\sh> ogra: no universe
<Mez> 0.18.1
<ogra> pitti, me neither
<\sh> Mez: doesn't work either for ppc/amd64
<ogra> Mez, rationale ? 
<lathiat> Mez: that fix the amd6t4 stuff?
<pitti> ogra: it's in REPORT, but neither accepted nor rejected
<ogra> pitti, strange....
<Mez> oh, I didnt know it didnt work on amd64
<Mez> :(
<\sh> Mez: I checked on ravel for amd64...same issue as for 0.18
<Mez> ogra: my rationale is that it isnt compiled with any video output methods
<pitti> ogra: ok, that's elmoish
<Mez> so you cant actually watch TV
<ogra> i would have thought katie is broken, but other uploads seem to work
<pitti> ogra: pitti@jackass:/srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/queue $ find -name ubuntu-meta*0.67*  did not reveal anything
<Mez> (and it's in multiverse)
<Mez> # breezy (graphics): 0.18-2ubuntu2 [multiverse] 
<Mez> Binary packages: libmyth-0.18, libmyth-0.18-dev, mythtv, mythtv-backend, mythtv-common, mythtv-database, mythtv-debug, mythtv-doc, mythtv-frontend
<pitti> ogra: maybe you forgot to kiss her this morning? :-)
<ogra> Mez, if yu dont break it, go for it
<pitti> lathiat: hm? which one?
<ogra> pitti, ahh, i knew this would have consequences :)
<Mez> ogra: well I've got it working on my system
<Mez> just by using mdz's package and canging a couple of B-Ds ...
<Mez> but if it's broken on amd64 ... should I/
<\sh> Mez: the problem is not i386
<\sh> Mez: i386 works even on 0.18
<Mez> \sh: no - the current package isnt compiled with a suitable video out
<\sh> Mez: ppc amd64 is the problem with this damn assembler stuff...
<ogra> Mez, find someone with TV card on amd64 and verify that it works first
<\sh> ogra: how if it's ftbfs
<ogra> ah
<\sh> libavcodec issue
<ogra> i thought its broken.... so make it compile first :)
<Mez> ogra: I dont have access to an amd64 system (atm) and I wouldnt know how to fix it if I did
<\sh> well...I'm not the assembler guy...atleast not on amd64 or ppc ;-) mdz as maintainer should do this...but he is to busy
<Mez> ogra: the current version ftbfs on amd64 - yes?
<ogra> no idea, look at the build logs
<\sh> Mez: chekc the buildlogs..use the date from the build log I gave u yesterday
<lathiat> pitti: DSA 782-1
<Mez> \sh :P It was rhetorical
<Mez> It ftbfs for amd64 and ppc at the moment already...
<Mez> I dont know how to fix that,
<Mez> but - I've fixed it so that it is useable
<\sh> u fixed i386..
<ogra> please fix the ftbfs too... look for patches
<pitti> lathiat: ok, that's the old one I already checked; thanks
<\sh> ok..lunch time
<ogra> ...the world is ful of them :)
<ogra> full even
<lathiat> pitti: ah ok
<Mithrandir> ogra: any luck with newer ia32-libs? *nag*
<ogra> Mithrandir, if you tell me where to get them ... i have the latest version is what apt tels me
<Mithrandir> ogra: hm, and you don't have a libxml2.so.2 in /usr/lib32 then?
<Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ~ > dpkg -L ia32-libs | grep libxml
<Mithrandir> /usr/lib32/libxml2.so.2.6.20
<Mithrandir> /usr/lib32/libxml2.so.2
<ogra> ii  ia32-libs      1.4ubuntu1     ia32 shared libraries for use on amd64 and i
<ogra> ogra@honk:~/ubuntu-seeds $ ls /usr/lib32
<ogra> libgcc_s.so.1  libstdc++.so.6  libstdc++.so.6.0.5  libz.so.1  libz.so.1.2.3
<ogra> thats all
<Mithrandir> ogra: please do an apt-get --reinstall install ia32-libs
<ogra> Mithrandir, now its populated... i wonder how all the libs disappeared
<Mithrandir> ogra: me too, if you find out, please tell me
<ogra> Mithrandir, but still
<ogra> /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/soffice.bin.real: error while loading shared libraries: libstlport_gcc.so.4.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<Mithrandir> ogra: reinstall ia32-libs-openoffice.org as well
<ogra> and above, libpangohack cant be preloaded.... same error as before...
<Mithrandir> something has nuked your /usr/lib32
<Mithrandir> more or less
<ogra> yup, and according to the bug i'm nt the only one....
<sedak> ogra, when you'll have some spare time, could you please review the rtl8180-kernel package on REVU ?
<Mithrandir> ogra: well, I don't see it, so it's a bit hard for me to track down.
<pitti> seb128: would I disturb you if I uploaded a new gnome-vfs2?
<seb128> pitti: nop, there is no new version for this one atm, go ahead :)
<pitti> seb128: the new semantics of leaving the drive icons around clashes with ejecting USB devices
<seb128> how so?
<pitti> seb128: you can't remount an ejected device
<pitti> seb128: it is powered off, you need to replug it to mount it again
<seb128> put it back to the drive, g-v-m mounts it, no?
<pitti> seb128: so I would like to drop our eject hack in g-vfs and replace it with a proper fdi in hal
<seb128> how did it use to work?
<seb128> seems nice
<fabbione> Mithrandir: did you find the oneliner for e2fsprogs?
<pitti> seb128: previously, gvfs removed icons for unmounted devices
<Mithrandir> fabbione: yes, and I added it too.
<pitti> seb128: but now they stay around - try with your usb key
<fabbione> Mithrandir: perfect thanks
<seb128> pitti: it still does, no?
<pitti> seb128: the icon offers to mount it after eject, but that fails
<seb128> pitti: I've tried with a fat partition and a CD
<pitti> seb128: fat partition on usb stick?
<Mithrandir> bah, the build log isn't on p.u.c yet?
<seb128> no, windows partition on my hdd
<pitti> seb128: sure, these can't be ejected
<pitti> seb128: the general idea of leaving the icons is nice
<seb128> but when unmounted they are not listed
<pitti> seb128: but eject clashes with this
<pitti> seb128: I hope that only our patch causes this misbehaviour
<pitti> seb128: I'll check this
<seb128> k
<ogra_> my broken DSL slowly starts to annoy me
<ogra_> Mithrandir, ia32-libs-gtk needed to be reinstalled too
<volvoguy> hey, will you guys beat me up if i ask a question about breezy's installer and my Canonical laptop? i'm getting anxious that i've had it almost two weeks with no success installing so far. 
<Mithrandir> ogra_: hence my suspicion that something's eaten your /usr/lib32
<ogra_> yup
<ogra_> but it seems to work fine now...only some warnings on the console
<ogra_> (soffice.bin.real:29760): Gdk-WARNING **: Error converting from UTF-8 to STRING: Conversion from character set 'UTF-8' to 'ISO-8859-1' is not supported
<Mithrandir> ogra_: yeah, that's because access to gconv stuff isn't done Right.
<seb128> mvo: your "Add/Remove programs" change is ugly :/
<mvo> seb128: because it is in the root of the menu?
<seb128> mvo: because it makes the menu twice larger than before here
<seb128> mvo: depending on how scale the translation, but it's larger with .de or .en too
<ogra> yes, its huge with .de
<shawarma> I'm trying to track down a bug in X.org. It wasn't there in Hoary, but I don't know at which revision it started... Are the revisions between -10 and -50 availble somewhere somehow?
<ogra> shawarma, that'd be a book....
<ogra> shawarma, changelogs.ubuntu.com might help you
<shawarma> ogra: What is that? It's not the /debian dir from the different package revisions, is it=
<shawarma> ?
<shawarma> No, the rules script is at least not there..
<mvo> seb128, ogra: hm, what can we do? it looks ok on my english desktop
<Diziet> Does anyone know who's been working on network-manager recently ?
<mvo> Diziet: thom and then adam conrad IIRC
<ogra> Diziet, err wasnt that you ?
<daniels> Diziet: it got deferred to breezy+1
<tseng> j^ has some nice work in his baz archive
<Diziet> ogra: For a bit, yes, but not in the last couple of weeks.
<ogra> ah
<tseng> it would be good if someone could maybe throw that in
<tseng> so we ship with something that at least runs
<tseng> (thanks ian)
<seb128> mvo: shame on you, non-english speaker should use translated version so we notice issues :)
<seb128> mvo: not sure there is something to do, that's just ugly
<Diziet> dan: Ahm.  There are some bugs in the bugzilla about the fact that it basically doesn't work.  Should I count those as low priority then ?
<seb128> mvo: french version is 14 chars longer than any other entry
<seb128> mvo: Add/Delete are short words in english but that's not the case for all the languages :/
<daniels> Diziet: i believe they should be ignored for breezy, but check with mdz.
<mvo> seb128: hm, yes
<Diziet> dan: I see.  Where's the canonical location of this information ?  Surely these decisions should be written down somewhere ...
<tseng> network-manager is still in universe, is there any chance we can upload j^'s packages?
<tseng> (that work)
<ogra> seb128, correct your language :p
<shawarma> Hm.... There's no way to find e.g. a xorg 6.8.2-11 build?
<Diziet> On BreezyGoals it's listed as FAILED.
<daniels> shawarma: ... no, -11 has more or less been gone for ages.
<Diziet> So I suppose that's good enough for me.
<daniels> Diziet: yeah, I guess BreezyGoals.
<shawarma> daniels: I see.
<shawarma> daniels: I have a problem with the i810 driver in X.org in Breezy. Everything was fine in Hoary. I wanted to try to narrow down where it went wrong, so I wanted to find the incremental changes between the different revisions... There's no way to do that, is there?
<ogra> pitti, i think there is more broken then only my ubuntu-meta upload.... the last build log is from 06:15 UTC this morning... i guess katie has a bad day...
<daniels> shawarma: not really ... what's the problem?
<shawarma> daniels: It SIGABRTs. Autodetection works fine, but as soon as it actually is going to start, if gives me a "*** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (fasttop): 0xblahblah" or something.
<Diziet> Woah, weird.  I submitted additional comments to one bug and Bugzilla then shows me the next bug along !
<shawarma> Diziet: That's what bugzilla does. they call it a feature.
<shawarma> Diziet: PITA if you ask me.
<Diziet> We already knew they're not on the same planet as the rest of us.  Oh well.
<daniels> shawarma: i've heard of that happening, and may have the fix in hand.  can you please bounce me the full log (daniel.stone@ubuntu.com)?
<shawarma> daniels: It's right here: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12716
<shawarma> daniels: Complete with backtrace and everything. :-D
<daniels> shawarma: excellente.  i'll ping you when I have new packages for you to try.
<Mithrandir> hm, why isn't the testing stuff done more often than just daily?
* volvoguy leaves frustrated. 
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: is something like formatLength = snprintf(NULL, 0, "%%.%ds\n%%%ds", (int) (ch - help), indentLength); a valid way to count the chars which will go into the string?
<Keybuk> whuuhhh?
* Keybuk puts his glasses on
<Mithrandir> (it appears to _work_, but I wonder if it's legal)
<Keybuk> you want to read something that is format %.999s\n%999s ?
<Keybuk> or am I confused to buggery?
<Mithrandir> I want to format the output of pkg-config's help
<Keybuk> you're making a format string?
<Mithrandir> yes
<Keybuk> why not just use a positional parameter for the length?
<Keybuk> printf ("%.*s\n%*s", (int)(ch - help), string, indentLength, otherString)
<Keybuk> or whatever
<Keybuk> * is "take the width of this from the next int argument"
<Mithrandir> is that portable?
<Keybuk> afaik.
<Mithrandir> (this is pkg-config, so I care a bit about portability)
<Keybuk> it's specified in K&R
<Keybuk> it may not be portable pre-ANSI, but I've never cared about C that old
<Mithrandir> well, I don't care about pre-ANSI, but I care about glibcisms, for instance.
<Keybuk> it's certainly not a glibcism
<Mithrandir> ok, thanks
<Keybuk> I once got a bug (on dircproxy) that it didn't compile with a pre-ANSI C compiler
<Mithrandir> I hope you laughed in response?
<Keybuk> I closed it claiming that pre-ANSI compilers didn't count as C compilers
<Mithrandir> yay, seems to work.  Thanks a lot.
<pitti> hi carstenh 
<carstenh> hi pitti 
<franst> hi all
<franst> anyone here can help me to mirror ubuntu repo to my server, the internet in this country is suck
<carstenh> irc'ing as root does not make that much sense
<ogra> carstenh, depends for whom ;)
<franst> ok 
<franst> how you know i am a root ???
<carstenh> 13:52:09 -!- franst (root) [n=root@202.73.108.220]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
<siretart> franst: we know everything about you ;)
<ogra> carstenh, the script kiddies love it if you do that ;)
<franst> oh :P
<franst> hehe sorry
<franst> sorry
<franst> i relogin :)
<carstenh> :)
<franst> i will back
<siretart> isn't he cute ;)
<ogra> heh
<frans-th> hi all
<frans-th> i am back
<frans-th> again, can anyone help me to mirror ubuntu repo here?
<frans-th> or am i in the wrong forum?
<siretart> frans-th: whats exactly your problem? 
<frans-th> my country internet is not good,
<frans-th> i want to mirror all ubuntu repo, security, universe to my pc
<frans-th> everytime i install ubuntu, need to connect to ubuntu server, that is slow and hurting here
<frans-th> can help?
<frans-th> right now i must waith for 8 hours or more for update of ubuntu
<pvanhoof> frans-th, you know rsync?
<carstenh> frans-th: i guess siretart wanted to hear something like "debmirror does not work because bla" oder "which tool do i have to use"
<siretart> frans-th: err, archive.ubuntu.com is available over http, ftp and rsync. did you try setting up a mirror?
<frans-th> i use ftp right now
<frans-th> just copy the ftp to my server
<frans-th> but still need confirmation from you
<pvanhoof> frans-th, rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ /home/mirror/ubuntu/public_html/releases.ubuntu.com/
<siretart> frans-th: ubuntu is free software. you don't need to ask for permission to mirror
<ogra> apt-proxy would be an option too
<siretart> frans-th: it is nice when you tell the ftp team that you host a reliable mirror in order to get listed on the websites
<pvanhoof> I don't recommend this one: rsync --recursive --links --exclude=*installer-* --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu /home/mirror/ubuntu/public_html/archive.ubuntu.com/
<pvanhoof> it'll need huge amounts of diskspace :)
<frans-th> anyway, i am a team in indonesia
<siretart> frans-th: security updates aren't mirrored usually for obvious reasons..
<frans-th> IGOS, Indonsia Goes Open Source
<carstenh> pvanhoof: i could also partially mirror it, i.e. only i386 and amd64
<siretart> cool
<carstenh> s/i/you/
<frans-th> i am the one that responsibility to manage the repo of open source esp debian here
<frans-th> but i am fedora and new ubuntu user :(
<frans-th> so i am in study to mirror the server
<frans-th> our server will be under IIX, so only indoensian can access it faster
<frans-th> pvanhoof: your rsycn syntact is error
<frans-th> the rsycn said need spesific filename
<pvanhoof> hmm, it does work for me
<frans-th> frans@spirit:~/repo$ rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/home/mirror/ubuntu/public_html/releases.ubuntu.com/
<frans-th> receiving file list ... done
<frans-th> client: nothing to do: perhaps you need to specify some filenames or the --recursive option?
<frans-th> rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at main.c(723)
<frans-th> frans@spirit:~/repo$
<pvanhoof> btw, at this moment  rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ is using 31 GB for me
<carstenh> wouldn't debmirror the right tool for this job?
<ogra> yup
<frans-th> 31 GB:) cool i have 100 GB totally
<pvanhoof> frans-th, the --recursive is added 
<frans-th> is debmirror is ok ?
<siretart> carstenh: debmirror is great for partial mirrors. I understand frans-th wants a full mirror
<pvanhoof> frans-th, note that rsync://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu could become more than 100gb
<carstenh> siretart: ok, i guess you are right
<frans-th> what is the difference between archive ubuntu with debian repo? 
<frans-th> 100GB :(
<pvanhoof> frans-th, your rsync command that you pasted ..
<siretart> frans-th: the name and the content. ah, yes the number of architectures and the size
<pvanhoof> you didn't append the destination
<lathiat> if you want to sync specific parts of ubuntu, use debmirror
<pvanhoof> you omited the space
<frans-th> siretart: ??? cannot understand
<frans-th> what is difference between speciic part with rsync?
<pvanhoof> frans@spirit:~/repo$ rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/home/mirror/ubuntu/public_html/releases.ubuntu.com/ should be frans@spirit:~/repo$ rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases /home/mirror/ubuntu/public_html/releases.ubuntu.com/
<daniels> is it wrong to start gdb under gdb to find out why it segfaults when you attach to Xorg?
* lathiat laughs at daniels 
<siretart> frans-th: the layout is very similar between debian and ubuntu mirrors. we are both using the same archive software, called 'dak'
<frans-th> pvanhoof: ?? space??
<frans-th> dak???
<frans-th> walah walah :(
<frans-th> what is that?
<pvanhoof> " "
<siretart> frans-th: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/dak
<frans-th> so, any tips for me for developing a good linux system for this country?
<pvanhoof> daniels, gdb /usr/bin/gdb ; set args /usr/bin/gedit ; run, does work here :)
<frans-th> anyway, right now here, i am using synaptic to ubuntu.com server..
<frans-th> i see ubuntu team manage the upgrade right
<pvanhoof> frans-th, do this.. (copy paste it)
<pvanhoof> cd $HOME
<frans-th> so, how to make if i am install the ubuntu again, this process can be not repeated again
<pvanhoof> mkdir mirror
<pvanhoof> cd mirror
<pvanhoof> rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ .
<pvanhoof> don't forget the last character, the "." character
<pvanhoof> <copypaste>rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ .</copypaste>
<frans-th> receiving list file :P
<pvanhoof> there you go
<frans-th> how big is this?
<pvanhoof> 31g
<frans-th> 31g :)
<frans-th> ok ok
<pvanhoof> to get an update
<pvanhoof> cd $HOME/mirror
<pvanhoof> rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ .
<frans-th> finished?
<pvanhoof> it will only fetch "the changes"
<frans-th> how can it is fast
<pvanhoof> no that's impossible
<frans-th> igdo
<frans-th> lrwxr-xr-x          35 2005/01/15 08:49:54 warty/warty-release-install-powerpc.list -> ../.pool/warty-install-powerpc.list
<frans-th> lrwxr-xr-x          39 2005/01/15 08:49:54 warty/warty-release-install-powerpc.template -> ../.pool/warty-install-powerpc.template
<frans-th> lrwxr-xr-x          28 2005/01/15 08:49:54 warty/warty-release-live-i386.iso -> ../.pool/warty-live-i386.iso
<frans-th> -rw-r--r--       25943 2004/10/26 00:28:57 warty/warty-release-live-i386.iso.torrent
<frans-th> sent 74 bytes  received 7194 bytes  440.48 bytes/sec
<frans-th> total size is 10010263427  speedup is 1377306.47
<frans-th> frans@spirit:~/repo$
<frans-th> see
<frans-th> finished.
<pvanhoof> oh .. perhaps like this
<frans-th> :P
<pvanhoof> euh .. no
<pvanhoof> you only received the symlinks
<frans-th> so?
<sivang> frans-th: where from?
<frans-th> i am from indonesia, jakarta city
<frans-th> why
<frans-th> there is a debian mirror here, kuya.vlsm.org
<frans-th> but no ubuntu :P
<frans-th> but kuya server is not up to date :(
<frans-th> pvanhoof? r u there
<pvanhoof> frans-th, if I do exactly the same ,, I start receiving files in a directory ".pool/:
<pvanhoof> ".pool/"
<pvanhoof> warty/warty-release-live-i386.iso -> ../.pool/warty-live-i386.iso
<pvanhoof> .htaccess
<pvanhoof> .pool/MD5SUMS
<frans-th> pvanhoof: you right, i got that too
<frans-th> MOTD: Welcome to the rsync archive at Academic Computer Club, Ume\uffff University.
<frans-th> receiving file list ... done
<frans-th> drwxr-sr-x        8192 2005/08/23 19:08:00 .
<frans-th> -rw-r--r--         348 2005/04/08 11:10:38 .htaccess
<frans-th> drwxr-sr-x        8192 2005/05/12 18:41:17 .pool
<frans-th> -rw-r--r--         787 2005/05/12 18:41:17 .pool/MD5SUMS
<frans-th> -rw-r--r--         189 2005/05/12 18:41:34 .pool/MD5SUMS.gpg
<frans-th> -rw-r--r--      192274 2005/04/07 23:40:20 .pool/ubuntu-5.04-dvd-amd64.list
<frans-th> -rw-r--r--       23003 2005/04/07 12:35:57 .pool/ubuntu-5.04-dvd-amd64.manifest
<frans-th> i copy and paste the end of the rsync
<pvanhoof> no
<pvanhoof> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl 
<pvanhoof> use that
<Mithrandir> frans-th, pvanhoof: can you please take this elsewhere, it's not related to the development of Ubuntu.
<frans-th> anyway i am using ubuntu hoary here. how can there is a warty repo also
<pvanhoof> frans-th, please ask on #ubuntu
<frans-th> sorry
<frans-th> i asked in the first chat, is this a right room.. i will move sorry
<pvanhoof> ask for the instruction on getting a mirror of the repo using rsync
<frans-th> :P
<frans-th> ok ok
<frans-th> pavnhoof?
<frans-th> anyway is this forum for remastering ubuntu?
<Mithrandir> frans-th: no.
<\sh> seb128: firefox works again on kde
<\sh> seb128: thx for the patc
<\sh> h
<seb128> np
<elmo> grr, who broke dak
<ogra_> YAY elmo !
<ogra_> elmo, katie somehow swallowed a ubuntu-meta upload this morning for me... (0.67)
<infinity> ogra_ : Shh, he knows.
<infinity> elmo : mdz wasn't confident enough to fix the overrides, so he left it for you.  Not sure who broke them in the first place. :)
<ogra_> oh, i'll shut up then...
<\sh> elmo: if u r on the overrides...please let "njam" go through :) thx :)
<elmo> njam        | 1.21-0ubuntu1 | source | 1 hour old
<elmo> please don't harass me about stuff that's hours old
<\sh> elmo: no i don't :) 
<elmo> \sh: no, seriously, you are.  I don't care how well intentioned it is.  but by asking, you're taking up my time by forcing me to look to see if I missed it
<\sh> elmo: if this was the case..I'
<\sh> m sorry about that..that was not the intention...
<elmo> infinity/whoever: for the record if a package is killing jennifer, it's pretty much always going to be safe to just move the package out of the way
<\sh> infinity: wxwidgets2.6 looks like there is something wrong with the pango lib
<\sh> and gwydion-dylan is a beast
<infinity> elmo : Ahh, mdz's diagnosis wasn't clear enough to point at a package being at fault, he seemed to think it was an override issue.
<pitti> hi again
* pitti killed his house server by accidentially pulling the wrong plug...
<lathiat> oops
<infinity> pitti : Congrats.
<pitti> well, it's up again (obviously, I have network :-) )
<infinity> \sh : Hold off on wxwidgets, we can revisit it later.  Getting the gwydion mess sorted would be pretty fabulous, though.
<\sh> infinity: I'm compiling it now in a chroot jail because it has problems with those nasty shlibs
<infinity> elmo : Will the queues and wanna-build return to sanity after the :03 run?
<elmo> infinity: yes
<elmo> or at least I assume so, I'm going to wait and see before I head into the office
* infinity claps with glee like a thpethul kid.
* \sh is preparing some sixpacks of good ol' german beer for elmo
<infinity> \sh : While you're worrying about transitions, BTW, anything in universe that depends on libcairo1 needs to be rebuilt for libcairo2.
<\sh> elmo: please send me your snailmail address :) thx :)
<Mithrandir> infinity: seb128 asked people to hold off stuff a little bit, I think?
<infinity> \sh : Most of those are straight rebuilds with no actual changes, so they should be simple, though there may be a lot of them.
<infinity> Mithrandir : ... He did?
<\sh> infinity: yeah...I will push it to motu..and take some...I hope i have next week some kind of network at the training hotel
<infinity> Mithrandir : I finished main for seb... Not sure what we'd be waiting on now.
<seb128> Mithrandir: when/what did I asked?
<Mithrandir> uhm, that was on Saturday; just ignore me.
<seb128> I replied on the list to the guys who listed most of the pile of package I uploaded with doko's tools for rebuild
<Mithrandir> ahkay
<seb128> but package which are not been updated have to be fixed
<infinity> Ahh, mister impatient.  Yes, I remember him. :)
<seb128> I wonder why the rdepends didn't list everything
<infinity> seb128 : After the next successful cron.daily, main is (finally) finished.
<seb128> thanks infinity
<infinity> seb128 : Was just waiting on a few binary builds on powerpc.
<infinity> And for a brief moment, ubuntu-desktop should be installable on all 3 release arches again.
<infinity> I wonder how long that will last this time.
* infinity stares at everyone.
* seb128 is mass uploading for GNOME 2.11.92 and will probably break it somewhere on the way :)
<infinity> seb128 : Yes, well, "stares at everyone" is a les confrontational way of saying "stares at seb128"
<infinity> s/les/less/
<seb128> ;)
<Diziet> Damn.  gs-esp 7.07.1-9ubuntu4 doesn't compile on sarge and my two breezy installs are still downloading updates ...
<sivang> seb128: do you have any special setup for being able to run gnomemeeting from the chroot ?
<seb128> I don't use chroot
<seb128> why do you need a chroot?
<sivang> seb128: work's machine, can't have breezy on it, and it's busy doing other stuff as well :)
<\sh> sivang: dchroot -c breeyz -d ?
<slomo> elmo: can you remove gcl from dep-wait for ppc? was just a temporary problem with the postinst script of tetex-bin which works in my pbuilder chroot
<\sh> it uses your X server for displaying X clients
<sivang> \sh: ?
<infinity> slomo : That request should be aimed at me.
<sivang> \sh: can you please install gnomemeeting inside your dchroot if you have one, and tell me how to overcome the gconf problem?
<\sh> sivang: hmmm...
<sivang> \sh: :)
<slomo> infinity: oh, sorry :/ can you please do it then? :)
<seb128> sivang: you just have to register a schemas file, that's trivial
<infinity> slomo : For the record, it wasn't dep-waited, just plain failed.  It'll build after the next successful cron.daily (which should be pretty soon)
<seb128> sivang: gconftool-2 --install-schema-file
<sivang> seb128: why didn't the pgk insitallation of gnomemeeting take care of this?
<slomo> infinity: sorry again ;) then i'll just wait... thanks anyway
<\sh> sivang: working for me in chroot
* sivang cries, he always falls on those weird problems.
<seb128> sivang: it does
<sivang> seb128: then I wonder why it doesn't happen to me on my dchroot...grumpf
<sivang> seb128: should I use the schema file from the source pkg, or take the one from the pkg cache?
<seb128> ls /usr/share/gconf/schemas ...
<Diziet> Wurghle!  gcc is printing garbage in its warning messages.  ./src/zfdecode.c: In function <crap>    etc.
* pitti_ distributes hate to his ISP
<\sh> pitti: where r u living?
<pitti> \sh: Dresden, at a point without DSL
<\sh> wow...
<pitti> we have the world's most modern telephone network, you know...
<\sh> because your ip goes through pironet-ndh cologne
<pitti> that's why I can't get DSL here
<tseng> anyone know something about new dell servers and hoary?
<\sh> pitti: that's not true :) 
<tseng> perc 4 raid controller seems unrecognized
<pitti> \sh: for me it is WLAN -> 5 GHz beam -> ethernet -> SDSL
<\sh> pitti: the hardware is a bit more expensive for dsl over fiber
<\sh> VST2Home connection i mean ,-)
<pitti> Morning otavio 
<pitti> Moin jbailey_ 
<jbailey_> Moin, Martin
<Diziet> `./src/gxicolor.c:120: warning: M-bM-^@M-^XvdiM-bM-^@M-^Y may be used uninitialized in this function'.  Nice compiler.  Time for a bug report.
<pvanhoof> we need Canonical employees for assisting a responsible of the Indonesian government getting to set up a mirror in their country.
<pvanhoof> one of the major problems is bandwidth
<pvanhoof> well, international bandwidth
<pvanhoof> it would be nice to get them a disc with some initial packages for hoary and warty, and let them (with limited bandwidth) rsync updates
<pvanhoof> who should the responsible contact for this?
<daniels> mmm, they really do have absolutely no international bandwidth
<paulproteus> They have 56 kilobits per second.
<apokryphos> speedy
<Diziet> I'm reminded again why I should package up magicmirror.
<Diziet> I don't think that's enough to maintain a mirror, is it ?
<apokryphos> But national bandwidth they can get isn't too bad. 100 megabits/sec
<pvanhoof> daniels, indeed. Their national bandwidth is good enough (I'm assuming)
<paulproteus> In fact, there is more international bandwidth available, but the government is only allocating this much to the project.  (National telco, blah blah.)
<daniels> pvanhoof: itr's not great, but it actually works
<pvanhoof> anyway, I think the solution is to send them a disc with initial packages (perhaps a preinstalled harddisk or a server)
<paulproteus> It wouldn't be enough to maintain a live-updated mirror of non-released distros (i.e., breezy currently), but released distros can be bootstrapped by CD/DVD and then they could rsync updates with little trouble.
<pvanhoof> and let them (with limited bandwidth -56k-) rsync the updates of only hoary and warty (and when breezy is released, also breezy)
<pvanhoof> frans-th all: my email is frans@intercitra.com ...
<pvanhoof> :p
<apokryphos> ta-da
<frans-th> hi there, i hear that indonesian case mention here
<frans-th> :)
<pvanhoof> frans-th, yes well .. contact the people at canonical and explain the situation (in detail)
<frans-th> are they here?
<pvanhoof> some might be here, but it's better to contact them by email
<frans-th> i think this room is not for mirror chat :) 
<pvanhoof> no it's not, indeed
<frans-th> i did email them, to info@canonical.com
<tseng> info@ will be routed properly
<frans-th> ok :) i did email them
<frans-th> i think i just wait they reply, and of course the DVD for mirror :)
<thoreauputic> does canonical have access to indonesian speakers? I would facilitate things it seems to me...
<thoreauputic> s/I/it
<frans-th> if finished, i think the promotion will star, and hopefully the others island will copy not only the hoary installer or live cd ,but the mirror.
<frans-th> no one every promote that there is a mirror CD
<pvanhoof> try the gnome translator project :)
<frans-th> thoreau: indonesian speaker:_ 
<frans-th> r u there, or am i disc?
<thoreauputic> no we see you frans-th  :)
<frans-th> hehe, last time disc without reason
<frans-th> anyway. 
<frans-th> i will in this chat room tomorrow..
<pvanhoof> Bangalore, isn't that a city in indonesia?
<frans-th> must make  proposal :) for my life...
<pvanhoof> (just wondering :p)
<frans-th> bangalore in india, 
<thoreauputic> pvanhoof: india :)
<pvanhoof> aha :)
<frans-th> indonesia is far from there, near singapore..
<frans-th> near malaysia, in north of australia
<frans-th> you can go to bali :) the cool island :) 
<pvanhoof> ok
<thoreauputic> frans-th: :)
<pvanhoof> ah yes, Ic. it's the islands above australia
<frans-th> if you visit jakarta, will be shock, crowded :)
<pvanhoof> don't you guys get bandwidth from australia? :)
<frans-th> :) alot australian there :)
<frans-th> but in jakarta.
<thoreauputic> pvanhoof: Indonesia has one of the largest populations on earth :)
<frans-th> there is a bandwidht from australia, but of course expensive..
<doko> seb128: libcairo2-dev should depend on libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev
<pvanhoof> yeah, it's the country I always try to capture first when playing RISC
<frans-th> indonesia have 250 millions citizen, 22 million sinternet user, :) less linux, and 90% pirating windows :P
<pvanhoof> :p
<doko> seb128: ahh, no better libglitz-glx1-dev
<frans-th> but sun microsystems love indonesia, their product Java is our island.
<seb128> doko: why?
<seb128> doko: it depends on libglitz1-dev
<frans-th> ok, all, thxfor the chat, i will back tomorrow, must go..
<thoreauputic> see you frans-th :)
<frans-th> i think i will prepare the PC for mirror, i will update later
<frans-th> i think i cannot do anything just waith canonical send the mirror CD.. 
<frans-th> but my question will they?
<doko> seb128: but libglitz1-dev doesn't depend on libglitz-glx1-dev
<Mithrandir> frans-th: your questions are not appropriate for this channel; this channel is about ubuntu development.
<pvanhoof> frans-th, they will answer
<doko> but libglitz-glx1-dev depends on libglitz1-dev
<paulproteus> Are there any developers around who know the current state of the multiseat udeb/package, or its future in Breezy?  It seems to be basically a stub in Hoary.  If testers are wanted, I can sign up.
<thoreauputic> Mithrandir: that's true - but he desperately needs help for his country and it seems reasonable to seek contacts with canonical employees
<apokryphos> Mithrandir: another LoTR fan; great to see. :p
<fabbione> paulproteus: you are welcome to take over the source and keep developing it
<daniels> frans-th: saya berbahasa indonesia ... sedikit.  kalau anda menulis surat ke pada info@canonical.com, surat ke pada anda ada dituils.
<daniels> frans-th: er, 'ditulis'
<frans-th> :) hehe thx
<Mithrandir> thoreauputic: there are canonical people in #ubuntu, and mailing info@canonical is just fine.  Going completely offtopic about other stuff in here is not.
<frans-th> daniels: i did email them
<daniels> frans-th: cool
<thoreauputic> Mithrandir: OK 
<pitti> mvo: you broke my hal-device-manager!!!
<Mithrandir> thoreauputic: there's enough traffic in here with just on-topic stuff, and all the chatter makes it hard to do real development.
<thoreauputic> Mithrandir: pont taken
<thoreauputic> point*
<seb128> doko: why should it Depends on libglitz-glx1-dev ?
<mvo> pitti: I did?
<paulproteus> fabbione: Well, I was hoping there was already someone else doing some development on it, that's all. :)
<doko> because it has glitz support compiled in?
<fabbione> paulproteus: not anymore..
<seb128> doko: and libglitz1-dev doesn't do the job?
<pitti> seb128: cool, after a few bug fixes, gnome-vfs works really cool and well :)
<doko> no, not for opengl support
<seb128> pitti: you rock :)
<thoreauputic> Mithrandir: I hardly ever speak out in here - I think the priorities for Ubuntu are always human - but I will not say any more about it
<frans-th> ok, bye all, thx for tthe time, will update soon
<seb128> doko: cairo.pc doesn't Depends on glitz-glx
<Mithrandir> daniels: do you have any idea about 13587?  I think it may be xprint-related and in that case, it's not our bug.
<doko> hmm, so if I want cairo for glx, I have to add the b-d for every package ... 
<seb128> doko: I'm not sure than forcing glx from cairo is the thing to do
<seb128> you can build without glx
<seb128> so technically that's not a Depends
* jordi tickles seb128.
<seb128> hey jordi
<mvo> pitti: seems to work fine here?
<mvo> ping jdub 
<daniels> Mithrandir: hard to tell
* mvo grumbles at his network
<daniels> doko: you don't want to force the glitz backend for cairo
<daniels> doko: if we have our whole desktop gl-rendered -- which means lots and lots of clients -- you'll get a deadlock in a couple of minutes on every desktop
<mvo> pitti: please update your liblaunchpad-integration
<daniels> doko: so if you do it, I'll have to kill you
<janimo> daniels, any idea if/when xorg-driver-synaptics is going to be updated to 0.14.X as the xfree86 package was?
<doko> daniels: OOo2 requires cairo and glitz, there's currently no way without glitz
<seb128> doko: glitz or glitz-glx ?
<doko> glitz-glx
<mjg59> daniels is right. The DRI drivers just aren't robust enough.
<doko> (if we enable that at all)
<daniels> doko: no way without glitz?!?!??!?!
<daniels> WHAT CRACK ARE THE SMOKING
<mjg59> Try running two copies of glxgears simultaneously on i810
<daniels> I WOULD LIKE FOUR
<mjg59> Watch deadlock occur in ~5 seconds
<doko> daniels: yes, but without cairo as well
<daniels> doko: wtf?
<doko> it's just the presentation module ...
<daniels> mjg59: actually, it doesn't seem to deadlock here
<mjg59> daniels: Oh, that's fun. Maybe it's just i915 hardware.
<mjg59> Or maybe it was glmatrix, or something. I was able to reproducibly kill i915 with two clients, but I can't remember /which/ two clients
<mjg59> daniels: Oh, linuxwacom upstream have rotation support now. It ought to be buildable against the modular tree, I guess
<mjg59> Unless it does stupid shit, in which case I'll have to fix it
<daniels> mjg59: that's next on my list to look at
<pitti> brb
* Diziet spots the phrase `domain sockets' in some gs docs.  Bah.
<elmo> \sh: err
<elmo> njam: executable-not-elf-or-script /usr/share/njam/levels/readme.txt
<elmo> \sh: why are you overriding that rather than just fixing it?
<\sh> grmpf...I missed that one...
<\sh> and 4 other reviewers as well..*sigh*
<janimo> \sh, do you have to specify the manpage name explicitely?
<ogra> \sh, missed while overriding ? 
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ogra: I created the package how many months ago? and now I fixed some stuff on it :)
<ogra> ;)
<\sh> ogra: and copy & paste and repeat is nice on a dir list ,-)
<janimo> \sh does the desktop description stil say cross-plattform clode? instead of cross-platform clone
<\sh> not anymore
<\sh> janimo: siretart.tauware.de/revu/ we need some good eyes 
<janimo> \sh also the manpage question above?
<janimo> I actually looked at the package today and spotted the overrides too but wasn't able to login and leave comments (my fault)
<janimo> \sh btw I need some good eyes on xubuntu-meta on revu ;)
<janeW> ajmitch: ping
<\sh> janimo: janimo what do u mean with "do you have to specify the manpage name explicitely?" I create the manpage out of the sgml source
<janeW> ajmitch: what's the status of SELinux? Implemented or deferred?
<janimo> I mean there's a man file under debian
<janeW> mvo: ping
<janimo> whereas dh_installman should just guess the name of it 
<tseng> janeW: deferred
<janimo> if it's just one binary package generated
<tseng> janeW: for selinux
<janeW> mvo: CDRomAuthentication.  Implemented or deferred?
<janeW> tseng: ok thanks
<janimo> so is there a need for explicitly naming it
<\sh> janimo: no...the njam.1 was accidently there...I removed it because it's generated from sgml
<janimo> ah ok 
<\sh> elmo: can I redo the upload without source now, or should I re-sourceupload?
<janeW> mjg59: ping
<mjg59> janeW: Hi
<janeW> mjg59: hello.
<janimo> \sh is there a ned for the file njam.manpages I meant?
<janimo> s/ned/need/
<mvo> janeW: implemented but not in the archive yet
<janimo> if it's only one manpage called the same as the binary package
<janeW> mjg59: is anyone coordinating the laptop testing?
<elmo> \sh: i accepted the version you uploaded, it wasn't enough to reject, you can just do an ubuntu2 whenever
<mjg59> janeW: Yeah
<infinity> \sh : If a -sa upload was rejected, you need to do another -sa.
<mjg59> janeW: (me)
<janeW> mjg59: i.e. do you need any help with thyat?
<infinity> \sh : Oh, but elmo didn't reject it, so don't listen to me. :)
<\sh> elmo: thx :)
<mvo> janeW: I'll make sure it either enters today or gets deferred 
<mjg59> janeW: Uhm. That would possibly be helpful.
<\sh> elmo: I owe u a couple of beers :) 
<janeW> mvo: ok thanks - any chance you can do the wiki update before the TB later?
<mjg59> janeW: Somebody really needs to be able to collate the data into a useful format before the release
<mvo> janeW: I will do that
<janeW> mjg59: I am a little swamped with these goal updates, but could you possibly send me a mail explaining what's in progress and I can check and update etc for you?
<janeW> mjg59: I could probably help you with that...
<janeW> mjg59: can we chat tomorrow?
<janeW> mjg59: I guess this is one goal that is still WIP, and is justified as such - right?
<janimo> elmo, any policy on syncing from debian experimental? mutt-ng would be nice to have in breezy universe
<mjg59> janeW: Ok, no problem
<mjg59> janeW: Yeah
<elmo> janimo: universe policies are basically up to the MOTMOTU, but AFAIK there's nothing against syncing from experimental
<janimo> elmo, can you lease sync mutt-ng then?thanks
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> mutt is in main, right?
<janeW> what's happened to dholbach  - I haven;t seen him here recently...
<mvo> \sh: mutt-ng is a fork (seperate source package)
<janeW> seb128: ping
<janeW> seb128: current status of GnomePanelEnhancements ? Isn't that implemented now?
<mvo> janeW: moving
<\sh> mvo: I know :) I'm using it from experimental
<janimo> \sh mutt-ng is another package
<\sh> janeW: I will visit him on the 3rd in berlin his new home
<mvo> \sh: you use it? is it good?
* mvo considers switching
<\sh> mvo: different..i like the imap cache stuff and also the sidebar for the imap folders
<janimo> I am interested in the nntp support
<\sh> janimo: nntp? use slrn ,-)
<sivang> seb128: grr, I installed all the schems and still gnomemeeting won't run.
<janimo> it's nicer in the same app
<\sh> mvo: but mutt has also some new patches for sidebars and stuff
<\sh> mvo: i think they will "backport" some patches from mutt-ng
<janimo> \sh manpage question above ;)
<\sh> janimo: fixed :)
<janeW> mvo \sh: oh dear...
<janimo> \sh ok thanks
<janeW> does anybody know the status of ExpandingUniverse & GraphicalPartitioningTool? They need to move off WIP...
<ogra> janeW, ExpandingUniverse is hopefully never finished... at least thats our target
<\sh> janeW: ogra
<janeW> ogra: mdz doesn't like that answer... we tried that ;)
<janeW> doko: ping
<\sh> ogra: how many motus we have now?
<ogra> janeW, but thats what the spec says
<mvo> janeW: I can call dholbach if it's urgent. he won't have net access until tomorrow/thursday 
<ogra> janeW, its misplaced at the goals page, i say that since the release cycle began
<\sh> mvo: http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/61-Back-to-the-90s.html
<janeW> mvo: I just need to know if those 2 goals are considered implemented, or if they (or parts of them) need to be deferred...
<janeW> ogra: is it not linked to the breezy cycle?
<doko> janeW: pong
<ogra> janeW, nope
<mvo> janeW: I'll give him a call
<ogra> janeW, expanding universe means that we try to get more packages in in every release
<janeW> doko: hello - we need to address your WIP goals before the TB meeting later, and decide if they are implemented or deferred (or both)
<janeW> ogra: ok, is what needs to be done now done?
<janeW> ogra: because then we can can it implemented - for these purposes
<doko> janeW: ok
<seb128> janeW: I've updated the wiki yesterday evening for that, that didn't work?
<ogra> janeW, if you only refer to the tools with that, mvo and dholbach wrote some tools to import www.apt-get.org packages into universe... this part is done definately
<janeW> doko: sorry to nag but Matt wants them all off WIP 
<seb128> sivang: you just have to install the gnomemeeting one
<doko> janeW: no problem
<janeW> doko: thank you, do you know what to do if something is as done as it;s going to get, but there are parts deferred?
<janeW> seb128: sorry I was looking at an unrefreshed tab - apologies and thanks
<seb128> janeW: np :)
<Diziet> I've been investigating a bug the bugzilla has assigned to me (13771) and, as it goes, it Works For Me.  The symptoms the submitter describes don't occur on my own breezy system.  What state should I leave the bug in ?
<janeW> Riddell-1wa: ping
<Diziet> For comparison: If it were a Debian BTS report I would probably mail the submitter and expect to close the bug soon.
<doko> janew: please enlighten me
<seb128> Diziet: the bug has useful comments and backtrace of the issue I would let it open
<mvo> janeW: have him on the phone. GraficalPartitionTool was part of ubuntu-express and that is deferred IIRC
<janeW> doko: what we are doing when as much of a goal has been implemented as is going to be, we move it to green, and then add a line in the deferred table detailing the section that didn't get done and isn't going to be done now...
<ogra> mvo, is it ? 
<mitsuhiko> sorry for asking here, but whom can I ask for a very quick order of ubuntu cd's?
<sivang> janeW: when is the tb meeting on?
<janeW> mvo: oic, ok, and expandinguniverse, as done as it's going to be for now?
<mvo> ogra: according to breezy goals page 
<janeW> sivang: 20:00 UTC
<ogra> mvo, the mails sent from the spanish guys to -devel sound different
<ogra> mvo, i agree with the goals page :)
<sivang> seb128: I did sudo gconftool-2 --install-schema-file /usr/share/gconf/schemas/gnomemeeting.schemas, and it seemed like it installed a ton of stuff. still no go
<janeW> infinity: PIng
* Diziet guesses NEEDINFO.
<janeW> infinity: the SoundEvents goals needs to be updates before the TB at 20:00UTC please.
<ogra> mjg59, sorry, i didnt notify you yet, power-manager is deferred... its too network-manager like... i cant make the arch work easy with our implementation...
<seb128> sivang: gconftool-2 -R /apps/gnomemeeting is still empty?
<Diziet> Argh, that's nice.  Bugzilla can have races when you submit comments too and gives you invidious choices when it happens.
<ogra> mjg59, i.e. the only possibility to make commands work is via the system wide running power-manager in the dbus backend... you cant easily make this talk to the users session... and hughsies implementation requires even that it runs suid root
<mvo> janeW: ExpandingUniverse is something in between according to daniel. we wrote a script that fetches everything from apt-get.org and tries to build it. but all the packages need review from MOTUs and that will take time until the release. Matt is aware of that.
<mjg59> ogra: Ok. Knowing this earlier would have been helpful.
<mjg59> ogra: I'll look at the situation today
<janeW> mvo: I made it 'implemented' should I put it back to WIP?
<mjg59> ogra: Is the latest code in the archive?
<ogra> mjg59, sorry, i spent the whole weekend on it..
<ogra> mjg59, yup
<mjg59> ogra: Ok, thanks
<sivang> seb128: no, it has a bunch of stuff now
<mvo> janeW: probably not, I guess there is enough done to justify "implemented"
<janeW> mvo: good
<ogra> mjg59, imho former versions without all the dbus front/backend separation would rather have worked, but they had no other functionallity since the code wasnt mature enough
<mjg59> ogra: What user is the back-end running as? Surely it should be root anyway?
<seb128> sivang: and you still have the same error ?
<ogra> mjg59, root
<janeW> ogra: can we add a line to the edubuntu notes, so Matt can see where it is?
<sivang> seb128: yes
<mjg59> ogra: Right. So why does it need to talk to the user's session?
<ogra> JaneW, edubuntu-desktop only waits for a last pitti review of python-sqlite, then this one is done... foe edubuntu server some reviews are pending and the changes to moodle will be done this week... edubuntu artwork is nearly done...
<infinity> JaneW : Oh, joy.
<seb128> sivang: and the key from the error has what value ?
<JaneW> I'll come back at 19:30 UTC or so, to follow up. Thanks for the updates all.
<seb128> sivang: rm .gconf/apps/gnomemeeting/, maybe it wrote some wrong value becaue you didn't have the schema
<JaneW> infinity: thought you;d like that ;)
<JaneW> ogra: I'll put that in thanks
<JaneW> ogra: any idea when we can justify it as implemented?
<ogra> mjg59, i can either run the pm-scripts hughsie planned suid root or i can rewrite the frontend to talk to gdm to call the gdm functions... the latter is my preferred way, but doesnt work with this architectire
<mjg59> ogra: We don't need to call the pm scripts - we can use pmi
<ogra> mjg59, which still would require some kind of suid stuff
<mjg59> ogra: Why? It'll be run sa root by the backend, surely?
<ogra> yes
<mjg59> So why does it need to be suid?
<ogra> because else pmi doesnt work 
<mjg59> pmi needs to be run as root
<mjg59> The backend is running as root
<ogra> you have to call it as root
<mjg59> What's the issue here?
<ogra> try it...
<mjg59> ogra: No, *tell me what the problem is*
<ogra> just running as root doesnt seem enough...
<doko> seb128: is there a reason, why libglitz-glx1-dev is not in main?
<mjg59> (Sorry, that sounded far harsher than I meant it to)
<mjg59> ogra: That suggests that something else is broken
<mjg59> But there's no inherent architectural problem here
<ogra> mjg59, imho there is...
<seb128> doko: not seeded, no Depends on it I guess
<daniels> doko: from a stability point of view, I'd much rather OpenOffice didn't use Cairo at all, rather than using GL
<mjg59> ogra: We need to run a command as root. That command should be run by the backend. The backend is running as root.
<tseng> is the amd64-xeon kernel smp?
<ogra> mjg59, the right way to implement it secure would be to handle this stuff in the frontend and use the gdm implementation from gnome-session
<mjg59> There may be an implementation issue, but architecturally we have all the parts we need
<mjg59> ogra: No - we already depend on these scripts being runnable as root
<infinity> tseng : I'm pretty sure it is, yes.
<mjg59> Unless your concern is that the backend may not be sufficiently secure
<tseng> infinity: great, thanks.
<infinity> tseng : Under the assumption that no one owns only one Xeon.
<ogra> mjg59, i'll look into it again, but i dont think its right as it is
<mjg59> ogra: Ok. I'll play with it now
<mjg59> ogra: Oh, it has missing build-depends by the looks of it...
<tseng> infinity: it would be fairly hard to find a UP box I think.
<ogra> mjg59, gnome-power-manager ? 
<mjg59> (Or, at least, insufficiently tight - it's complaining about a missing dbus-binding-tool"
<mjg59> Yeah
<ogra> mjg59, and power-manager ? 
<ogra> mjg59, not gnome-power
<ogra> they are different packages
<mjg59> ogra: gnome-power-manager is the frontend and power-manager the backend?
<ogra> yup
<mjg59> ogra: Should they be out of sync, version-wise?
<ogra> nope
<mjg59> Well, they seem to be. Hang on, let me recheck.
<ogra> i only packaged one version of the,
<ogra> them
<mjg59> Power-manager seems to be 0.1.1. gnome-power-manager seems to be 0.1.2
<ogra> yup
<mjg59> That's correct?
<ogra> yup
<mjg59> So they should be out of sync? :)
<ogra> power-manager only has had one release and will die with hal 0.5.4 according to highsie
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> Which we're not getting, right?
<ogra> not for breezy... 
<ogra> its not released upstream yet
<mjg59> Ok
<wasabi_> heh my hoary cds arrived last night
<mjg59> Uhm. Which package should dbus-binding-tool be in?
<chrissturm> wasabi, today cdt 3.0 for eclipse was released. did you see it?
<ogra> its a build dependency of gnome-power-manager... wait, i'll look it up
<ogra> mjg59, dbus-1-utils,
<mjg59> ogra: That should be a versioned build-depends
<mjg59> Needs to be >=0.35 by the looks of it
<ogra> we only have dbus 0.35
<ogra> its a breezy package...
<mjg59> ogra: build-dependencies should prevent the package being built on a setup where that building will fail
<seb128> we had 0.32
<seb128> some people may still have it installed
<ogra> seb128, i packaged it after dbus was 0.35
<wasabi_> great
<wasabi_> cnn.com now freezes firefox
<seb128> and? some people have not upgraded for weeks
<wasabi_> and epiphany refuses to open
<seb128> the Build-Depends have to reflect what is required
<ogra> seb128, i try to avoid versioned depends where i can... but ok
<seb128> what is wrong to version correctly?
<mjg59> ogra: Consider the case where someone wants to build the package on something other than Breezy
* ogra fixes
<mjg59> ogra: Thanks
<lathiat> 9/whois cvd
<lathiat> bah
<mjg59> ogra: gnome-power-dbus-test --doNACK
<mjg59> Testing NACK with monitor
<mjg59> Caught remote method exception net.sf.GnomePower.Error: Unknown method name 'ActionRegister' on interface 'net.sf.GnomePower'
<ogra> mjg59, power-manager is installed ? 
<ogra> and works ? 
<mjg59> power-manager is installed, but does not appear to work
<mjg59> (it's certainly not running)
<ogra> hmpf
<ogra> works here
<ogra> ps ax|grep Power ?
<ogra> should give you /usr/sbin/PowerManager
<mjg59> Oh, no, sorry, it is running
<mjg59> But gnome-power-dbus-test doesn't work
<ogra> it relies on working pm-scripts, you get the error if they arent there
<mjg59> ?
<mjg59> That's, uh, crack.
<mjg59> Right.
<ogra> look at the source package of power-manager
<ogra> there are example scripts
<mjg59> (If it needs something, why is it not expressed as a dependency?)
<ogra> what we'd have to do would be to write a script that calls pmi hibernate... 
<ogra> because thats the part thats up to us to write... and the part that has to run suid root
<mjg59> ogra: Why does it have to run suid root? It's run by a program that's running as root.
<ogra> and the part that made me refuse and defaer it
<ogra> create a script called /usr/sbin/pm-suspend that calls pmi suspend, make it suid root, it will work... thats the arch hughsie built for redhat... if i dont make it suid root, it doesnt work...and i get the same error you get with your dbus test
<mjg59> ogra: You can't make scripts suid
<mjg59> It doesn't work
<mjg59> Linux ignores the suid bit on scripts
<ogra> but PowerManager apparently not
<mjg59> All it does is g_spawn_command_line_async (path, NULL)
<Diziet> Dammit, that fb driver problem has affected my actual install and not just the boot media, now.
<mjg59> Diziet: fb driver problem?
<Diziet> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12849
<mjg59> Ah, ok. Yes, that's a usplash bug. I'll upload a fixed one later.
<\sh> guys...who is responsible now for shipit? 
<pitti> \sh: marilize and maybe still mako
<Diziet> Just before the display vanishes it prints  [hex numbers]  somethinglisted   (I only get to see it for a fraction of a second.)
<\sh> pitti: there r some guys who need at least 200 ubuntu cds for linuxinberlin event
<Diziet> This bug must have been introduced for me during the last two weeks.
<mjg59> Diziet: Easiest workaround for now is to remove usplash and rebuild initramfs
<mjg59> ogra: Error: The name net.sf.GnomePower was not provided by any .service files
<ogra> mjg59, its in the PowerManager services file
<\sh> pitti: and shipit doesn't respond...8.9. it's starting
<Diziet> Damn, and now I've let it resume my Debian install and I'll have to hibernate it again.
<mjg59> ogra: Oh, sorry, hadn't restarted gnome-power-manager
<Diziet> In fact, it seems to have contrived to make my Debian install not resume !
<mjg59> ogra: Ok, having fixed it to refer to pmi rather than the pm-scripts, I still get that error from gnome-power-dbus-test
<ogra> mjg59, it works here as i described above...
<mjg59> ogra: In what way?
<Diziet> Bugger.
<mjg59> ogra: Setting the suid bit on pmi makes no difference
<mitsuhiko> \sh: shipit never responded to any of my requests
<ogra> create a pm-shutdown script that calls /usr/sbin/halt, make it suid root (yes i know....) and your system shuts down if you select the option from the context menu in the trayicon
<mjg59> ogra: As far as I can tell, there's no part of the code that does anything to check whether a script is suid or not (which is a good thing)
<mjg59> ogra: I've removed all references to pm-sutdown
<mjg59> "A security policy in place prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient, see message bus configuration file"
<mjg59> ?
<\sh> mvo: ping...can u call dholbach and ask him if he has some hoary x86 cds as spare left?
<mjg59> ogra: A security policy in place prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient, see message bus configuration file
<mvo> \sh: pong
<\sh> s/can/could/ :)
<ogra> mjg59, as i said, that disappears if you make the script sui root (yes... i know...)
<mjg59> ogra: No it doesn't
<ogra> it does here
<mjg59> ogra: The script is suid
<ogra> if i create a pm-shutdown script here, that simply calls halt, i can shut down my system with the context menu from the trayicon
<mitsuhiko> arr. why do i write memos...
<\sh> mitsuhiko: ist schon gut...er wird angerufen und wir fragen nach
<mjg59> ogra: I suspect an issue with PowerManager's dbus policy script
<ogra> mjg59, might be, but t works here the described way
<ogra> mjg59, i simply dont think its right as it is... 
<ogra> mjg59, thats why i set it to deferred
<mjg59> ogra: Yes, it plainly doesn't work at the moment. But the reasons you've given make no sense.
<ogra> mjg59, every user will be able to run PowerCmd shutdown from the commandline
<mjg59> ?
<mjg59> It *doesn't require suid scripts*
<ogra> err PowerManagerCmd
<mjg59> Yes.
<ogra> mjg59, it only works if the scripts are suid root here... it doesnt if not...
<mjg59> Except they can't at the moment, because the security policy appears to be wrong
<Diziet> mjg: I don't think this is a usplash bug.  It happens before the normal scrool of bootup messages.
<mjg59> Diziet: It's a usplash bug. As a result of it, initramfs loads vga16fb on boot.
<mjg59> It's in the package, not the binary
<ogra> mjg59, i can tell only what i observed... and that was the reason for me to set it to deferred
<mjg59> ogra: Ok, I'm working on it
<Diziet> mjg: Right.
<ogra> mjg59, additionally i dont think the separation into session and system service is right... we should just have a tool that calls the gdm functions *in* the users session without requiring any system service
<mdz_> morning
<mdz_> pitti: here?
<Diziet> mdz: Hello.
<mdz_> Diziet: welcome!
<Diziet> Thanks.  At last !
<Diziet> mjg: OK, I give up.  _How_ do I rebuild my initramfs ?
<mvo> good monring mdz_ 
<ogra> hi mdz_ 
<mdz_> ogra,JaneW: ExpandingUniverse had specific goals for the breezy cycle, including bringing in apt-get.org
<jbailey> Diziet: Do you have a running system?
<Diziet> jb: Yes.  I have network access (ssh) to it right now.  I can't see the console.
<ogra> mdz_, ok, then its implemented... mvo and dholbach developed the infrastructure
<Diziet> mdz: I've been sorting stuff out here and working on a few of the bugs that the bugzilla has for me.  Many of them are to do with networkmanager, which AIUI has been postponed ?
<jbailey> Diziet: Cool, so as root, just run "mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r)"
<Diziet> I found mkinitramfs but I really need a script to provide the rune.
<Diziet> script> or you, apparently :-).
<jbailey> I serve where I may. =)
<mdz_> Diziet: networkmanager didn't make it
<Diziet> Mmm.  Sorry I wasn't able to get further with it.
<Diziet> Well, it produced no output and we'll see what it does now ...
<mdz_> we have a better understanding of where it needs to go for breezy+1 now at least
<Diziet> jb,mjg: Thanks, that has solved that problem for the moment.
<mdz_> and it will get attention early in the release cycle and go in early next time
<pitti> mdz_: Morning; yes
<mdz_> Diziet: do you have your hardware sorted?
<mjg59> How can I get a list of currently running interfaces on dbus?
<Diziet> Well, I thought so but I just updated it earlier today and now it doesn't work any more :-/.
<mdz_> pitti: will you roll new language-support-* to remove the oo.o-dictionaries deps?
<Diziet> Coo, now X doesn't start.
<ogra> Diziet, with what error
<ogra> (we are all well trained for X breakage now ;) )
<pitti> mdz_: yes, I can do this
<pitti> mdz_: 10 minutes?
<Diziet> `Failed to start the X server' and a mangled dialog prompt asking me whether I want to see the error message, all splashed over the top of the text-mode login screen.
<mdz_> pitti: that would be good
<ogra> Diziet, and if you say yes there and scroll down ? 
<Diziet> I can't say yes because getty is getting my keystrokes.
<Diziet> I'm looking in /var/log now.
<mvo> mdz_: do you have time for some talking about apt?
<ogra> sounds like a xkb issue
<Diziet> My xkb was broken and I (perhaps foolishly) tried to fix my keymap.
<Diziet> (Using the pontyclicky xkb ui in gnome)
<daniels> ... how ... did you try to fix your xkb?
<daniels> bounce me an xorg.conf and an xorg.0.log and I'll have a look
<ogra> Diziet, tried sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg ? 
<Diziet> If I say `Xorg' from the command-line it works.
<ogra> Diziet, do you have a xorg.conf in your home dir ?  i was struck by this on the weekend, it seems to read that
<ogra> daniels, btw, is that intentional ?  ^^
<daniels> ogra: yes
<ogra> ouch
<Diziet> gdm/:0.log contains the line  /etc/X11/X is not executable  and nothing else.
<janimo> daniels, should I file a bug on updating xorg-driver-synaptics to the same version that was supported by xfree86-driver-synaptics?
<daniels> Diziet: /usr/bin/X11 probably isn't a symlink to /usr/bin.  you'll want to make it so.
<Diziet> Xorg seems to have moved to ...    err, wot ?
<daniels> janimo: it's ok, I'll get to it
<ogra> daniels, i happen to store my nv config from my laptop on my desktop (mga) i had some funny hours finding out about the glu eroors that suddenly appeared
<Diziet> Indeed it isn't.
<janimo> daniles, so no bugreport then, thanks
<Diziet> What was supposed to sort that out ?
<daniels> Diziet: xorg is /usr/bin/Xorg, and /etc/X11/X is a symlink to /usr/bin/X11/Xorg.  /usr/bin/X11 should be a symlink to /usr/bin.
<daniels> Diziet: x-common, but apparently the logic there needs to be in postinst rather than preinst.
<Diziet> /usr/bin/X11 is a directory, here.
<Diziet> postinst rather than preinst> Really ?
<daniels> right.  should be a symlink to /us/rbin.
<daniels> well, so I'm told.
<Diziet> You mean it should be in the preinst instead of the postinst.
<daniels> it *is* in the preinst.
<Diziet> The x-common I have here has no preinst.
<mdz_> mvo: ok
<Diziet> 1.05
<daniels> Diziet: no, it got moved to postinst.  blah.
<Diziet> I'm looking at that code now and it looks right.
<pitti> doko: if myspell doesn't work with ooo2, then we should actually drop all myspell-lang packages, not just the ones which are built from ooo-dictionaries, right?
<Diziet> Perhaps dpkg removed the link because it thinks it's an empty directory.
<Diziet> Is there a bug report about this problem ?
<daniels> Diziet: not yet, no
<Diziet> I'll investigate and file one.
<infinity> Erm, if it's in postinst, it should be working fine... Unless there's no file there at all, and the symlink isn't being created in that case.
<infinity> Which would be a bug.
<infinity> Wait...
<infinity> daniels : Do you also SHIP a symlink in the package, or just create it in postinst?... For the postinst trick to work, you also need ot ship it.
<daniels> appears to be shipped
<doko> pitti: why doesn't it work?
<seb128> elmo: goffice libgsf xicc syncs please (I got approval from mdz)
<infinity> (So, the way it works is that dpkg refuses to replace a directory with a symlink, then you blow it away and create it... But subsequent upgrades just get the symlink from the package)
<Diziet> I reinstalled x-common and that fixed it.
<daniels> yeah, the symlink's shipped as well
<infinity> daniels : Fun.
<pitti> doko: dunno, when mdz asked whether openoffice.org-dictionaries works with ooo.2, you said no
<infinity> I should look at all these directoy<-> symlink transitions again before we do the preview release.
<mdke> does anyone know if there is a more comprehensive list of current metapackages than on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MetaPackages ? 
<infinity> Can someone file a bug about that and assign it to me? :)
<doko> pitti: the hypenation patterns ...
<Diziet> inf: Surely that should result in a failed install, not an apparently successful one with a wrong answer ?
<pitti> doko: ok, so ooo.2 still uses myspell and *can* use the packages generated by ooo-dictionaries?
<pitti> doko: in that case we should leave ooo-dicts in main, right?
<doko> pitti: the myspell-de: yes.
<Diziet> inf: look again> I think that's the right answer.  I can't reproduce the bug.
<Diziet> Should I file it anyway ?
<pitti> mdz_: ok, then it doesn't really make sense to throw out myspell-*, since they still work
<Diziet> Damn, and my XKB bug has gone away too.
<Diziet> I hate these things that vanish when you look at them.
<mdz_> Diziet: sounds like a good time to do some upgrade testing
<pitti> Diziet: welcome to the Heisenbug :-)
<Diziet> These were all in upgrades from Colony 2, which is probably less than helpful overall.
<infinity> Diziet : Don't file a bug about your specific issue if you can't reproduce it, but a general "look at all the X directory<->symlink migration stuff and make sure it's sane before preview release" bug assigned to adconrad@ would be nice.
<Diziet> inf: OK.
<infinity> Diziet : And yes, a variety of things have been buggered ina variety of ways (including breakage in those migrations) in the life of breezy.  We'll support hoary->breezy upgrades, and probably everything from Colony3 to Final, but I doubt anyone will put much effort into supporting upgrades from breezy installations oldr than Colony3.
<Diziet> Quite so.
<pitti> jbailey: any eta for the glibc upload, so that the new langpack patch can be tested more widely?
<jbailey> pitti: Right, I was trying to ping you on the weekend.  I don't have an email from you with the patch yet.
<jbailey> pitti: Sorry, had slipped my mind when I saw you online yesterday.
<pitti> jbailey: I put it into the bts
<pitti> jbailey: no worries, it's not that urgent; I was just curious :-)
<pitti> jbailey: #11344, you are in CC
<jbailey> pitti: Oh, it's not assigned to me, so I didn't see it in my search.
<mdz_> pitti: doko said that they didn't work
<jbailey> pitti: Does this replace the current dpatch file, or is it in addition to?
<doko> mdz_, pitti: preparing a new upload only building the myspell packages
<pitti> mdz_: right, the hyphenation packages don't, but the myspell ones do
<pitti> mdz_: I elmininated the hyphenation dependencies in l-s a while ago
<pitti> jbailey: replaces
<pitti> jbailey: I know, they look entirely different, but without timestamp comparison, it can be done in a much more sane way
<jbailey> pitti: =)
<mdz_> doko: if we need to keep the package anyway, I see no benefit in crippling it
<mjg59> Ok, that's working better.
<ogra> mjg59, got it  ? 
<mjg59> ogra: Well, the daemon
<ogra> mjg59, working with pmi ? 
<mjg59> Yes
<ogra> wow
<mjg59> Now I just need to figure out why g-p-m won't work
<lathiat> acpid needs to realise when the power is unplugged
<lathiat> while your asleep
<mjg59> lathiat: It should do so now
<lathiat> mjg59: oh nice
<mjg59> (in Breezy)
<lathiat> thats always pissed me off
<doko> mdz_: licence problems, i.e. GPL, relicensed by somebody as LGPL, at least for the german hyphenation patterns
<mdz_> doko: aren't they just data anyway?
<doko> mdz_: does this matter for the license?
<mdz_> doko: LGPL vs. GPL doesn't seem different for data
<infinity> Man, are we going to get rid of this ugly Xscreesaver unlock dialog before preview release?
<lathiat> i heard someone say no at some point
<ogra> infinity, depends if mdz considers it a feture
<lathiat> i wish we would
<lathiat> the hoary one was so nice
<lathiat> it was so pretty
<infinity> I'm indifferent about the hoary one, but it was certainly less ugly than the default upstream one.
<doko> mdz_: are hyphenation patterns written in/for LaTeX code or data? I don't know ...
<ogra> infinity, lathiat the one i have here is even more pretty, but there was a decision for gnome-screensaver that was reverted later i'm unsure what to do now...
<lathiat> ogra: well, while gnome-screensaver is nice
<lathiat> if my disk is being hammered, it should not take 25 seconds to display the unlock dialog
<infinity> ogra : Talk really fast, and pray that mdz sees the lack of prettiness as a regression worth fixing, I guess.  And test your local patch A LOT to make sure it's not broken before you beg to have it allowed in.
* ogra would like to hear a decree from mdz_ about that...
<infinity> Oh Christ, it's 2:55am.. Where does the time go?
<lathiat> if only it was daniels, you could just say "ooh its shiny" and it would go in
<infinity> Now now, we're not shipping luminocity or anything.
<daniels> hah.
<daniels> infinity: (that's what you think.)
<mjg59> ogra: Dude, these packages could never have worked together
<mjg59> One defines PM_DBUS_PATH as "/PMObject" and one as "/net/sf/PowerManager"
<lathiat> ok i updated hal and it restarted dbus
<lathiat> i thought we werent doing that anymore
<ogra> mjg59, which one does what ? 
<lathiat> this somehow also made metacity crash
<pitti> lathiat: one last time
<ogra> mjg59, the latter is right
<pitti> lathiat: the last restart is caused by the *old* hal version that still restarted
<mdz_> ogra: how intrusive are the changes?
<mdz_> ogra: can't we revert to the one we had in hoary?
<pitti> lathiat: yes, it breaks gnome-vfs2
<mjg59> ogra: I'll upload fixed versions now
<lathiat> pitti: hrm, ok
<mjg59> ogra: power-manager has the wrong one
<ogra> mdz_, nope... this one makes xscreensaver ftbfs
<ogra> mjg59, thats bad
<ogra> mdz_, due to the changes jwz and debian made
<mdz_> ogra: how intrusive are the changes for your new dialog?
<ogra> mdz_, the new one is a reimplementation of the hoary one with some changes..
<mdz_> ogra: if you will fix xscreensaver to only blank on LTSP clients first, it's OK with me
<ogra> mdz_, not more then the hoary ones, i.e. changing fonts to xft and re-adding xpm functionallity jwz ripped out
<ogra> mdz_, why must that be on ltsp ? the screensavers work fine for me on ltsp ...
<mdz_> ogra: they consume massive amounts of network bandwidth
<ogra> oh, ok... 
<mdz_> ogra: if the LTSP_CLIENT environment variable is set, it should blank instead
<ogra> (i only test with one client here ENOHW)
<mdz_> ogra: even with one client it maxes out the client's port for me
<ogra> ok, i'll look into it how hard that is to implement, i'l mail you at least tomorrow 
<mdz_> we default to some pretty heavy screensavers
<ogra> yup
<infinity> That's an understatement.
<ogra> mdz_, my client has a 1GB network card and is my amd64 laptop ... its not really underpowered ;)
<infinity> It's not a quesiton of power.
<infinity> Drawing screensavers over the network is just plain DUMB.
<ogra> infinity, sure... a question of network power...
<infinity> "Hi, we have 50 clients with the screen locked, doing nothing, but somehow our switched GigE network is maxed."
<mdz_> I use my laptop for testing, and it maxes out a 100mbit network port (and that still isn't enough to get more than a few fps in a GL screensaver)
<daniels> i think they should all do local rendering using mesa's xlib target
<daniels> none of this indirect rendering crap.  do it all client-side and just blit the raw pixels over the network.
<shaya> hi, I just did a fresh install of breezy, and when I run emacs I get
<shaya> spotter@dent:~$ emacs
<shaya> Undefined color: "black"
<shaya> mean anything to anyone?
<daniels> shaya: sudo apt-get install xrgb
<shaya> :)
<daniels> on that note, I'm going to bed
* infinity turns off daniels's wireless access, so he'll stop suggesting things people might actually consider.
<infinity> Oh, I guess I don't have to.
<ogra> urgh, xrgb is separate too  
<ogra> ?
<shaya> thanks
<shaya> hmm
<shaya> too late
<shaya> seems like I have to restart X to get this to work
<shaya> hmph
* mvo goes for dinner
<lamont-away> hrm.. how long ago did apt get tilde-support - clear back before woody released?
<ogra> lamont-away, woody ? 
<madduck> clear back?
<madduck> lamont-away: it was added while apt in sarge was frozen.
<mdz_> lamont-away: no
<mdz_> madduck: no it wasn't; it's in sarge
<fabbione> mdz: i did merge 1.1.1 in the kernel. it's an ABI change as i predicted. If that's ok with you and BenC i can do the dance tomorrow
<mdz_> it was added in 0.5.5
<lamont-away> mdz_: but certainly not woody.  gotcha
<mdz_> and fixed up in later versions
<madduck> Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:15:33 +0200 Wichert Akkerman <wichert@deephackmode.org>
<fabbione> BenC: otherwise you can do it as you prefer
<mdz_> fabbione: I need working CDs before we churn again
<madduck> you're right.
<fabbione> mdz_: ETA?
<mdz_> fabbione: are the livefs builds working?
<fabbione> mdz_: i have no power to check.. no idea
<mdz_> fabbione: yesterday's CDs had a kernel mismatch between d-i and the livefs due to the abi change and desktop being uninstallable
<mdz_> so they were broken
<fabbione> d-i has been updated..
<fabbione> did elmo process it?
<mdz_> fabbione: sure you do; you set up an rsync job to have the latest live CD images on hand right? :-P
<mdz_> looks like it is still failing, at least it is out of date
<mdz_> fabbione: the installer was updated, but the livefs build failed.  not an elmo thing
* infinity scurries off to look.
<fabbione> mdz_: ok, but can we see what fails to fix it?
<mdz_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<mdz_>   ubuntu-desktop: Depends: contact-lookup-applet but it is not going to be installed
<mdz_>   ubuntu-live: Depends: language-support-en but it is not going to be installed
<mdz_> E: Broken packages
<mdz_> I pasted it last night before I crashed
<fabbione> mdz_: i don't read backlogs that go over my scroll buffer..
<mdz_> I asked several times for the livefs build logs to be published with the package build logs, but I don't think it has happened
<fabbione> mdz_: ok.. i guess we will wait for the ABI change, but we can't wait too long
<fabbione> mdz_: that thing needs to go in
<infinity> seb128's currently churning the archive (again) with GNOME uploads.
<infinity> That makes -desktop generally unhappy for days. :/
<mjg59> Woo
* mjg59 gets g-p-m working
<ogra> mjg59, success ? 
<mdz_> it looks like desktop is installable now, but not language-support-*
<ogra> YAY !!!!!
<mdz_> elmo: I moved that back into main yesterday to try to fix this
<elmo> mdz: say what?
<infinity> Oh, indeed.
<mdz_> elmo: openoffice.org-dictionaries went main->universe->main
<mdz_> madison currently admits that myspell-en-gb is in main, but it seems to be missing from Packages
<mdz_> oh, interesting, because the file is missing from the pool
* fabbione goes offline
<elmo> aiee
<elmo> and it's the only one too
<mdz_> doko is going to upload a new version anyway
<mdz_> doko: ETA for that?
<doko> 30 minutes
<elmo> what the fcuk is going on
<mjg59> ogra: I'll upload later this evening
<ogra> mjg59, ok...
<ogra> mjg59, i'll have to add a call for the screensaver properties...
<ogra> mjg59, anything else UI wise thats missing ? 
<infinity> ogra : Are we talking about the "Power Preferences" capplet here?
<ogra> infinity, yup
<ogra> infinity, gnome-power-manager
<ogra> infinity, mjg59 just saved it from getting deferred
<infinity> ogra : It seems to be missing (from the Windows world) actions for "low battery" and "critical battery" (with options to raise alarms, sleep/hibernate the system, etc)
<elmo> mdz: dude, this deb isn't even in the morgue - I've never seen dak lose a file like this before
<elmo> did you teri it last night?
<ogra> infinity, are we talking about the same thing ? 
<ogra> infinity, thats exactly what gnome-power-manger adds 
<mdz_> elmo: yeah, I probably fat-fingered removing the symlinks or something
<mdz_> since it had already moved once
<infinity> ogra : Oh, then I'm looking at something more useless. :)
<infinity> ogra : Let me find this g-p-m and run it.
<infinity> Oh, it doesn't actually run.  Right.  I'll have to look at it after mjg59 fixes it.
<ogra> infinity, gnome-power-manger and power-manager, not the older gnome-power (if its still there, i asked almo for removal)
<ogra> elmo even
<infinity> ogra : Yeah, I was looking at "gnome-power-preferences", since that's the capplet I have in my menus.
<infinity> ogra : My bad.
<infinity> ogra : You probably need a smooth upgrade path to both remove gnome-power and migrate any reusable settings over.
<ogra> infinity, most likely you still run the old one... 
<ogra> infinity, gnome-power wasnt functional at all... 
<infinity> Oh, it was just pretty, but didn't do anything?
<ogra> yup
<infinity> Cool.  Then no migration required.
<ogra> heh
<infinity> Lucky you.
<ogra> lol
<ogra> it was completely redesigned between the two releases ...
<ogra> mjg59, i think we should supress the installation of PowerManagerCmd so only a logged in desktop user can actually shut down the machine... it doesnt feel right to have a commandline option that enables *every* user to shut down the machine...
<mdz_> ogra: what is the final word on power management configuration?  it is late
<infinity> We already allow anyone to shut down the machine from GDM without logging in.
<ogra> mdz_, i already added it to deferred since i couldnt get it working... mjg59 just fixed it... so it might go to implemented finally...
<mdz_> mjg59: ?
<mdz_> it depends on how intrusive the changes are
<ogra> its two parts, similar arch to network manager
<mdz_> oh god
<ogra> yup
<infinity> But not nearly as vile and intrusive.
<infinity> For obvious reasons.
<ogra> session based frontend+gui and a system based daemon listening on debis for commands from the frondend
<ogra> d-bus
<ogra> sorry
* infinity decides to stop being (un)helpful and heads to sleep.
<pitti> sleep well, infinity 
<ogra> night infinity 
<infinity> Oh, pitti's here.  That reminds me.
* pitti runs away
<pitti> infinity: what's up? will it hurt?
<infinity> pitti : I didn't tear PCRE out of apach2 until 2.0.53.  That means warty's apache2 needs an update for those PCRE vulns.
<pitti> infinity: oh, great
<pitti> infinity: ok, thanks for the reminder
<sean__> is it alright to idle in heree?  wouldnt mind seeing the behind the scenes ;) 
<infinity> NP.  I knew something was nagging at the back of my mind.
<ogra> sean__, sure
<sean__> thanks :)
<infinity> Wow, reading old changelogs is embarassing.
<infinity> apache2 (2.0.53-5ubuntu1) hoary; urgency=low
<infinity>   * Remove /etc/apache2/conf.d/charset on purge. 
<infinity> apache2 (2.0.53-5ubuntu2) hoary; urgency=low
<infinity>   * Really remove /etc/apache2/conf.d/charset on purge, rather than just writing about it in the changelog. 
<infinity> And now, bed for real.
<infinity> pitti : If you don't have time for that update, ping me and I'll do it in the morning.  Otherwise, have fun.
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> i need a switch
<\sh> or a linksys wrt54G
<\sh> infinity: shortly..what about cairo trans?
<\sh> I counted about 50 packages (no sort on universe or main now) 
<infinity> \sh : All of main is transitioned.  Anything in universe depending on libcairo1 is fair game (check first to see if it's already been uploaded, but is FTBFS)
<infinity> \sh : Try to keep dependency ordering sane, so you don't have to do excessive uploads to get it right, but most packages should just be upload-and-forget.
<\sh> infinity: sure...I will prepare everything..so I can move it towards motu meeting tomorrow..
<ogra> \sh, are we through with the slang2 stuff in universe ? i somehow lost the overview for this one
<infinity> \sh : Fantastic.  This should be a top priority for you guys, since libcairo1 is completely dropped from the archive, so anything depending on it is uninstallible.
<\sh> ogra: also not
<ogra> *sigh*
<\sh> we have to split up groups...dude :)
<ogra> yep
<infinity> ogra, \sh : If anything in the slang2 transition is waiting on action from me (rebuilds, etc), let me know.
<ogra> and stop fiddling with all the NEW stuff... 
<ogra> (as i preach since weeks)
<\sh> ogra: i'm working as well on gwzdion-dylan
<\sh> aeh
<\sh> -z+y
<\sh> it takes hours to compile 
<\sh> and I hope i fixed now the damn shlibdeps
<\sh> completly borked
<infinity> \sh : You do use ccache, right?
<\sh> infinity: no...
<infinity> You really should.
<\sh> infinity: during my holidays i will try to get a nice desktop station here...i'm really annoyed working with this laptop
<mxpxpod> ogra: are you working on gnome-power for ubuntu?
<ogra> mxpxpod, mjg59 just took over
<mxpxpod> ogra: thanks
<ogra> mxpxpod, at least for the backend integration... package stuff and UI and the other unimportant things might still be mine...
<ogra> :)
<mxpxpod> ogra: heh, I'll talk to mjg59 
<mxpxpod> I'm wondering if I'll still need pbbuttonsd after we get gnome-power working correctly
<ogra> oh, yes, thats rather a mjg59 question, but i guess yes...
<mxpxpod> man, I hate pbbuttonsd
<mxpxpod> whenever I reboot, it uses 100% cpu until I restart pbbuttonsd
<ogra> gnome-power is only a frontend to the powermanagement already in place
<Mithrandir> mdz_: do you know the reason for Colin's testing scripts just being run in the morning?
<ogra> its rather generic, the backend is still distro specific
<mxpxpod> ogra: I think the thing about pbbuttonsd that bugs me the most is that it does all the other stuff besides powermanagement
<adriyel> hey guys, I need some help
<ogra> doko, could it be that your temporary ooo2 amd64 package touched /usr/lib32 anyhow ? (#13986)
<adriyel> I run Ubuntu amd64, Athlon3500, and a GeForce 6800GT
<adriyel> I've had firefox randomly crash, to the point that it required a process kill
<adriyel> someone with similar hardware has had the same problem
<{Seb}> adriyel: #ubuntu
<adriyel> we've deleted profiles, reinstalled firefox, everything
<adriyel> Seb, where the crap do you think I came from?
<infinity> adriyel : Please read the topic.
<adriyel> I came here to report it
<mdz_> Mithrandir: britney is run from cron.daily...
<{Seb}> adriyel: use the bugzilla then
<sean__> #ubunutu sent them here :p
<adriyel> hello sean
<Mithrandir> mdz_: hm, ok, so it was just because katie was ill today, then.
<ogra> adriyel, this is a development channel, please keep the support stuff in #ubuntu and use bugzilla for bugs
<adriyel> ...sounds like the "not my job" syndrome, I get that at work
<adriyel> thanks guys, I'll go back to Gentoo, g'day.
<mdz_> adriyel: don't take it personally.  you're only being asked to use the appropriate forums for this topic
<doko> ogra: oh, that's easy, lib32gcc1 did remove that directory ... it's fixed now
<ogra> doko, ahhh :) yay, great...
<Mithrandir> ogra: care to close that bug, then?
<ogra> Mithrandir, will do :)
<adriyel> and I have used the appropiate forums, to no avail
<Mithrandir> excellent.
<Mithrandir> adriyel: I've seen firefox be a bit unstable on amd64 lately as well, but I haven't had the time to investigate it yet.
<adriyel> thank you mithrandir, thats what I wanted to hear
<adriyel> its a problem with the AMD64 version, as I suspected
<Mithrandir> adriyel: I'm hoping to be able to do that over the coming days; If you see a pattern in what causes crashes, please file a bug.
<adriyel> I do see a pattern, thats why the other person affected with this said he would file it
<mdz_> you said it was random
<adriyel> sigh, it crashed again
<adriyel> pseudo-random
<adriyel> If I let it just sit on the home page
<Mithrandir> "firefox crashes occaasionally" isn't very useful, but if it's "firefox crashes on this or that page", then it's more useful
<adriyel> it will typically crash within a minute to 10 minutes
<mdz_> Mithrandir: if you want to help adriyel diagnose this problem, please do it in #ubuntu
<adriyel> there is no particular web page guys
<adriyel> it just sits there, and the next time I switch to the window, it crashes
<Mithrandir> adriyel: /queery
<sean__> so is there any way the non-programming folk can help u developers?
<pitti> sean__: lots of :-)
<slomo> infinity: you got mail... the wxwidgets2.6 debdiff
<pitti> sean__: help us testing current CDs on various hardware, report bugs, triage bugs if you want, help users, join the documentation team, translate, etc. pp.
<sean__> i was looking into advocacy in my area, would love to get on that side of things, im limited hardware wise, 333mhz celeron / 64mb ram lol
<mvo> sean__: people looking over the bugs in bugzilla are most welcome 
<\sh> ok...need to buy some tobacco
<\sh> brb
<sean__> ill do anything, just gotta point me in the right direction :) love this distro
<\sh> elmo: thanks :)
<\sh> elmo: u rock 
<mdz_> Mitario: you added an agenda item to TechnicalBoardAgenda which says it has to do with the Community Council
<mdz_> mako: ping
<mako> mdz_: yes
<mdz_> mako: is there going to be a surprise CC preemption of the TB meeting today?
<mdz_> mako: (see #-meeting)
<\sh> mbreit has to be approved as member and actually as motu...this is the only thing we discussed at last CC
<mbreit> \sh: we discussed to also approve the other member candidates today?
<elmo> we don't have enough people
<doko> mdz_: please could you promote portaudio and mythes to main, reviewed by pitti (OOo2 build-deps)?
<elmo> kamion's away, and so is sabdfl
<mdz_> doko: did you already upload the version with the new deps?
<mdz_> it wasn't in germinate as of the last run
<mdz_> I'm re-germinating now
<mdz_> elmo: cron.sync.lock()
<doko> mdz_: yes, 2ubuntu1 is uploaded
<elmo> mdz: cron.sync has locking now
<mdz_> seb128: desktop is uninstallable due to gnome-terminal and gedit
<mdz_> seb128: I need new livefs images today
<\sh> elmo: I think the decision was made already or? we wanted to be sure that he stays with his work
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-08-16.html
<mdz_> doko: done
<seb128> mdz_: I've been uploading the whole day, I'll look on the build logs now
<seb128> just back from dinner
<mjg59> ogra: I'm about to do a power-manager upload
<ogra> yay
<ogra> mjg59, i owe you one
<mjg59> mdz_: ogra marked power-manager as deferred - I've managed to find the bug that was responsible for it breaking
<doko> slomo: please could you send me the wxwidgets diffs? infinity is asleep ...
<ogra> mjg59, it still has to pass pitti in this new architecture
<mdz_> mjg59: I thought it was just a desktop app; if it's a daemon etc. that's a bit much
<ogra> mjg59, the old arch was approved, but that was only a frontend
<mdz_> seb128: i386 seems to have built ok, but both amd64 and powerpc failed
<ogra> mdz_, i think if pitti approves it, it is ok...
<slomo> doko: http://yggdrasil.sytes.net/files/debdiff/wxwidgets2.6_2.6.1.1.1ubuntu2.debdiff
<mdz_> eek
<mdz_> powerpc:
<mdz_> Unpacking libmng1 (from .../libmng1_1.0.8-1_powerpc.deb) ...
<mdz_> dpkg-deb: subprocess <decompress> killed by signal (Segmentation fault)
<mdz_> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libwmf0.2-7_0.2.8.3-2_powerpc.deb (--unpack):
<mdz_>  subprocess dpkg-deb --control returned error exit status 2
<mjg59> mdz_: Hmm. I was under the impression that the design was always for it to end up that way
<slomo> doko: it's just a patch from the wxwidgets cvs to allow compilation with gtk 4.0
<slomo> doko: gtk 2.8 even
<mdz_> mjg59: I mean as a freeze exception
<elmo> mdz: that can probably just be given back
<mjg59> mdz_: The only means of communication is over dbus, so it /shouldn't/ (ha ha ha) be a security issue
<elmo> what package is it?
<mdz_> elmo: I thought that went away with ppc64?
<mdz_> elmo: it was the livefs build
<elmo> we don't have ppc64 yet
<mdz_> ah
<elmo> due to 13628 
<elmo> or whatever it is
<mdz_> mjg59: it's not so much a security issue as a complexity issue
<mjg59> mdz_: It's a daemon that sits on dbus and executes a small set of commands as root if signalled
<mdz_> mjg59: it's august 23rd
<mjg59> Well, yes, that is true
<seb128> mdz_: "  libgnomeui-dev: Depends: libgnomeui-0 (= 2.11.2-0ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed" ... I guess that's out of sync arch any/all for libgnome, it needs a retry
<mdz_> seb128: retrying powerpc and amd64
<seb128> thanks
<mdz_> lamont-away: W: http://jackass.ubuntu.com/dists/breezy/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz was corrupt
<mdz_> and yet the script exited successfully
<elmo> mdz: the mail processing stuff picks it up AFAIK
<mdz_> elmo: for the buildds you mean?
<mdz_> mjg59: does your tablet work apply to the "Colony 3 on tc1100" report on -devel?
<elmo> err, yeah.  soryr I guess you mean livecd
<mdz_> phew, I thought you were saying that lamont had some procmail of DOOM for the livecd too
<mjg59> mdz_: Nothing I've done would improve that situation yet
<mdz_> mjg59: which tablet is it that you have?
<mjg59> Those sound like generic Colony 3 bugs
<mjg59> I've got an 1105, which is a cost-reduced 1100
<mjg59> Stuff I'm working on at the moment would mean the tablet would work out of the box
<mjg59> elmo: Can you sync hotkey-setup?
<mjg59> Unless it's the same version, in which case I missed dinstall and will ask you again tomorrow :)
* mdz_ hands apt-cache madison to mjg59
<mdz_> mjg59: how are we going to handle the platforms where vga16fb doesn't work, for usplash?  do we need to blacklist certain graphics cards?  laptop models?
<mdz_> seb128: hmm, amd64 still uninstallable
<mdz_> seb128: same error
<mdz_> seb128: did something ftbfs?
<mjg59> mdz_: It's laptop rather than graphics card specific, in almost all cases
<mjg59> mdz_: For new installs and for hoary (assuming they've followed the docs), it should fail cleanly anyway
<tvo> hi!
<mjg59> (Assuming that they passed the recommended parameter to turn off vga16fb on install)
<\sh> pitti: ping
<mdz_> mjg59: how will hoary not lose?
<seb128> mdz_: I'm reading the log of the day, doesn't seems so ... still libgnomeui not installable?
<seb128> pitti: around?
<mdz_> mjg59: are you going to look for debian-installer/framebuffer=false after install time too?
<mdz_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<mdz_>   ubuntu-desktop: Depends: gedit but it is not going to be installed
<mdz_>                   Depends: gnome-terminal but it is not going to be installed
<mdz_> I don't have an amd64 chroot right now to trace it down
<tvo> hi, I'd like to request a sync for dpkg
<seb128> me neither
<mjg59> mdz_: On Hoary installs, the docs say "pass vga=771 to disable vga16fb"
<mdz_> tvo: I generally leave those to the dpkg maintainer
<pitti> \sh, seb128: yes, at the phone. will ping you back
<mjg59> mdz_: Rather than debian-installer/framebuffer=false
<seb128> pitti: k, thanks. Do you have an amd64 chroot to know why libgnomeui-dev is not installable here?
<mdz_> mjg59: hmm.  there must be some other documentation which says d-i/framebuffer=false
<mdz_> I thought that was what the isolinux help said in fact
<mjg59> mdz_: Warty said that
<mjg59> Hoary's isolinux docs seem to have vga=771
<mjg59> Non-latin installs don't work with framebuffer=false
<mdz_> and vga=771 works on these funky laptops?
<mdz_> on the lists and such i see people saying they used /framebuffer=false
<Mithrandir> seb128:   gedit: Depends: gedit-common (= 2.11.91-0ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed
<mjg59> mdz_: Hm. Maybe the wiki says that, then
<seb128> Mithrandir: for libgnomeui-dev ?
<Mithrandir> seb128: no, for gedit
<seb128> WTF
<seb128> all come from libgnomeui-dev
<mjg59> mdz_: vga=771 works pretty much everywhere (as does vga16fb). The failure cases don't seem to overlap.
<seb128> can you figure why this one is not installable?
<Mithrandir> seb128: arch: all vs !arch: all packages and depends = source-version
<tvo> mdz_: do you know his nick?
<mdz_> tvo: Keybuk
<Mithrandir> root@golem:/# apt-cache show gedit | grep ^Vers
<Mithrandir> Version: 2.11.91-0ubuntu2
<seb128> Mithrandir: right, and the builds fail on libgnomeui-dev not beeing installable
<tvo> Keybuk: ping
<Mithrandir> seb128: then they need a kicking; it's installable for me.
<mdz_> tvo:  a sync means to replace the ubuntu package with the version in Debian; that's definitely not appropriate for dpkg at this time
<mdz_> tvo: can you be more specific about your goal?
<seb128> Mithrandir: mdz just kicked and said it failed again
<mdz_> Mithrandir: that's in a chroot?
<seb128> let's wait for the build log
<Mithrandir> mdz_: pbuilder login, yes
<mdz_> what build log?
<mdz_> powerpc just failed again too
<seb128> gedit/gnome-terminal builds
<Mithrandir> seb128: what is the package which FTBFS?
<mdz_> Setting up dnsutils (9.3.1-2ubuntu1) ...
<mdz_> /bin/sh: error while loading shared libraries: <D3>{<A1><9D>b+OP}l<AB>I/bU<E2>
<mdz_> <F4>5B0m`{<C2>p<82>V^X<F4><B5>f^AF^AV$Dt<8D><86><CE>i<92><F7>: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<mdz_> royal needs an exorcism
<seb128> Mithrandir: gedit/gnome-terminal builds
<tvo> mdz_: yes, I tried to pbuilder build a package, but it doesn't work because dpkg-source has bug 318473
<mdz_> elmo: does it help to reboot/spit/kick/etc.?
<seb128> Mithrandir: they chocked on libgnomeui-dev which was due to libgnome any/all out of sync imho, let's wait for the retry
<tvo> mdz_: this is supposed to be fixed in 1.13.11
<elmo> mdz: hmm, if it can wait an hour or so, I'll go up to the DC and install a stock ppc64 kernel on it
<mjg59> ogra: Uhm. Only remaining problem is that g-p-m doesn't actually seem to get any events
<ogra> mjg59, hmm it pops up a message if i unplug my power here for example
<mdz_> at least i386 succeeded
<seb128> elmo: did you read the sync requestion from before?
<mdz_> tvo: with which package?
<mdz_> tvo: (with which package did you encounter the pbuilder issue)
<tvo> mdz_: kio-locate
<seb128> elmo: goffice libgsf xicc syncs please (I got approval from mdz)
<ogra> mjg59, is your hal up to date ? 
<mjg59> Ah - there is a newer version. Let me try that.
<mdz_> tvo: imported as http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14052
<pitti> seb128: seems to work fine here
<mdz_> tvo: you can add yourself to CC and add your comments there
<Mithrandir> seb128: gedit seems to build fine with pbuilder here.
<mdz_> seb128: it works best to send email with the exact versions and CC me
<elmo> seb128: done
<seb128> pitti, Mithrandir: cool, thanks. So it should be fixed on retry from the buildds
<seb128> mdz_: noted
<seb128> elmo: thanks
<mjg59> ogra: Went from ubuntu1 to ubuntu9
<tvo> mdz_: ok, ty
<mdz_> mjg59: but in any case this only affects people who were already screwed from the start when they booted the install CD, right?
<mdz_> mjg59: so if they managed to finish the install in spite of that, they should be able to clean up after usplash too
<ogra> mjg59, hmm, but the major version stays the same ? it should work...
<mjg59> mdz_: Yeah
<mjg59> ogra: Ok, I get a notification thing on AC change
<slomo> doko: thanks for the upload :)
<mjg59> ogra: Should I not be getting something for button presses?
<ogra> ah, ok
<ogra> mjg59, you should... i cant test it with my acer.... no acerhk in the kernel...
<mjg59> ogra: acerhk should be back in Breezy
<mjg59> Oh, my, but this is going to be pain
* mjg59 realises that we have multiple ways of getting sleep buttons
<ogra> mjg59, i was hoping to be in the laptop testing team (since i was the fiorst one who subscribed) to be able to test such stuff
<mjg59> ogra: But then you got hired :)
<ogra> but i didnt get selected apparently
<mjg59> Nobody on the payroll did
<ogra> mjg59, oh, its a matter of being employed :) didnt know that
<sean_> wow didnt realise you were all paid empolyees?
<ogra> would have been very helpfull though
<mjg59> Oh argh python doom
<ogra> sean_, we arent *all*
* Treenaks isn't
* mjg59 is not
<mjg59> ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/LaunchpadIntegration/_lpi.so: undefined symbol: launchpad_integration_set_sourcepackagename
* \sh is a paid employee but not for Ubuntu or Canonical
<mjg59> What should that be defined in?
<sean_> oh ok :) got a nice mix, well props to the volunteers working on ubuntu :) and all the devel's, nice work guys + girls
<ogra> mjg59, pythin-launchpadintegration or something like that
<mjg59> Nngh eyestrain
<ogra> python even
<seb128> mjg59: 
<seb128> $ nm -D /usr/lib/liblaunchpad-integration.so | grep set_source
<seb128> 000012a0 T launchpad_integration_set_sourcepackagename
<mjg59> ogra: That's where it comes from, but there must be something else that's providing that symbol
<mdz_> Mithrandir: gedit and gnome-terminal are not installable in the master archive
<mdz_> Mithrandir: maybe your chroot needs freshening?
<mjg59> seb128: Ah - what package is that from?
<seb128> liblaunchpad-integration0 > 0.0patch26
<mjg59> python-launchpad-integration doesn't depend on it
<seb128> kick mvo :)
<seb128> he did this upload
<mdz_> the dep isn't versioned
<mjg59> mvo: python-launchpad-integration has inadequate dependencies
<mdz_> kick the liblaunchpad-integratino0 maintainer
<mjg59> Oh, shlibdeps?
<mjg59> Nngh
* mvo kicks himself
<mdz_> #DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_liblaunchpad-integration := -V 'liblaunchpad-integration'
<bandini> could any non x86 breezy user launch 'gs-esp' and tell me if it segfaults for them? (looking at #13771)
<seb128> mdz_: yeah, I've versionned since there was no API change since the first package
<mjg59> ogra: Ah - I'm not getting the ACPI stuff in hal-device-manager for some reason
<Mithrandir> mdz_: I just ran pbuilder update, so I doubt that.
<seb128> mdz_: it was meant to be changed on API change, and mvo did this upload :)
<mdz_> Mithrandir: try building a new chroot from scratch rather than upgrading; that's what the build does
<seb128> mvo: should I fix it, or you are going to?
<ogra> mjg59, then its a hal bug
<mdz_> Mithrandir: just mailed you a copy of the log
<mvo> seb128: if you have time feel  free, I will fix it otherwise
<Mithrandir> mdz_: my chroot is a pbuilder chroot, which means it's fairly minimal, but sure, I can try strapping another one.
<seb128> mvo: I'll do it now
<mjg59> ogra: Yeah, probably. I'll worry about it later.
<mdz_> Mithrandir: which mirror do you use?
<Mithrandir> mdz_: archive.ubuntu.com
<mvo> seb128: thanks!
<mdz_> Mithrandir: that isn't necessarily the same as jackass, but it ought to be close enough
<Keybuk> tvo: yo?
<mdz_> Keybuk: #14052
<seb128> mvo: you're welcome :) 
<tvo> Keybuk: what mdz_ said :)
<Keybuk> mdz_: we could sync those in, but there's some "fix some shit iwj wrote while on major crack ten years ago" stuff in there too
<mdz_> seb128: gnome-games seems to have many scrollkeeper errors
<mjg59> ogra: You still ought to get lid events. Do those trigger g-p-m?
<mdz_> Keybuk: your changelog was fairly nonspecific; what's the actual bug which bit tvo?
<Keybuk> I think I'd feel a little happier about just backporting the dpkg-source patches
<mdz_> it was in a string of "fix a bunch of dpkg-source stuff"
<Keybuk> bod wrote the dpkg-source extractor to be strict and fussy about filenames, and what could have an orig, and what could have a diff, etc.
<seb128> mdz_: I'll have a look, that's ugly but doesn't break anything
<Keybuk> so it'd only allow an orig if there was no revision, and only allow a diff if there was a revision, etc.
<Keybuk> and he used if $revision ... which is false if revision is "0"
<pitti> \sh: back, btw
<mjg59> Anyway.
* mjg59 goes to the pub
<\sh> pitti: it's ok...I just had problems with debuild and fakeroot (btw...debuild -rfakeroot) doesn't work :)
<ogra> mjg59, nope
<mdz_> Keybuk: that's evil; there are plenty of packages with native version numbers and diffs
<Keybuk> yup
<mjg59> ogra: You get no lid events? Or g-p-m does nothing with them?
<pitti> \sh: debuild uses it automatically
<ogra> mjg59, where do i see them ? 
<Keybuk> so I rewrote the code to basically allow most things
<\sh> pitti: no...doesn't work :(
<mjg59> ogra: /etc/init.d/acpid stop
<mjg59> ogra: cat /proc/acpi/events
<pitti> \sh: it does, that's one of the main features of debuild
<\sh> pitti: it's going into the clean stage and complaining at dh_testroot 
<mjg59> ogra: Press the lid switch
<pitti> \sh: how on earth did you manage to break that???
* Keybuk hmms
<\sh> pitti: not me...gwydion ;)
<ogra> mjg59, cat: /proc/acpi/events: No such file or directory 
<ogra> hmm
<Keybuk> the "make unpack totally atomic" changes would be nice to get in too
<\sh> pitti: dh_testdir
<\sh> dh_testroot
<\sh> dh_testroot: You must run this as root (or use fakeroot).
<ogra> mjg59, ah, its event, not events here
<Keybuk> (ie. "can't overwrite file" or "corrupt tarfile" etc. failures result in your system being in _exactly_ the same state it was before you begun unpacking the new binary)
<mjg59> Ah, sorry, yes
<ogra> mjg59, works
<ogra> mjg59, but i'm not sure hal hands them over
<mjg59> ogra: Ok. So either hal or g-p-m is broken.
<mjg59> ogra: I'll take a look tomorrow, but if you have any time to have a play that would be great
<Keybuk> oh, there's a securitah in there too
<Keybuk> bah
<Keybuk> elmo: sync dpkg ;)
<jblack> keybuk: When you have a free moment, could I steal about ten of them from you? It'l help hct in the long run.
<mjg59> ogra: New power-manager should work fine with existing g-p-m package
<Keybuk> jblack: I have about ten free moments now, /msg ?
<ogra> mjg59, all time you want (and edubuntu leaves me)
<jblack> sure. :)
<ogra> mjg59, have fun in the pub :)
<ogra> mjg59, and thanks a lot :)
<mvo> pitti: there is no language-pack-kde-af?
<seb128> mvo: launchpad-integration fixed
<mvo> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> np
<pitti> mvo: hm, apparently not
<pitti> mvo: is kde-i18n-af very new?
<mvo> pitti: don't know, I was just asking for the language-selector
<mvo> I need to know if I should just silently ignore non-existing language-pack packages
<mvo> or if I should report the package as missing
<pitti> mvo: in general, ignore
<mdke> does anyone else think there is something strange about the fonts in breezy firefox? mine are a bit weird and it's difficult to distinguish bold text from regular
<pitti> mvo: but thanks for the hint
<Keybuk> mdz: you ok with a dpkg sync?
<mdz_> Keybuk: not with the information I currently have available. are you?
<Keybuk> well, I think there's enough in 1.13.11 to be useful for us
<Keybuk> lots of bug fixes, mostly
<Mithrandir> mdz_: well, even with a freshly bootstrapped chroot it works fine
<mvo> pitti: ok, I'll do that now
<sean_> how do i post a temporary fix for a bug on the wiki?
<ogra> Mithrandir, is this norwegian ? http://www.edubuntu.org/ForSide
<pitti> sean_: you don't rather want to attach the patch into bugzilla?
<sean_> ive never dealt with bugzilla
<sean_> this is day 3 on ubunutu... been using slackware :( 
<\sh> slackware doesn't have a bts?
<Mithrandir> ogra: yes, but it's capitalised incorrectly.
<mdke> no one on my firefox question? i have it on both my breezy systems
<ogra> Mithrandir, it shouldnt exist at all ;) thats the error :)
<mdz_> Keybuk: how has it held up in debian so far?
<sean_> nope, not 9.1 anyway, was what i was runnign
<mdz_> Mithrandir: I'm flabbergasted
<mdz_> Mithrandir: it's failed 7 times in a row
<ogra> Mithrandir, thanks for looking
<mdz_> BenC: ->#ubuntu-meeting
<Mithrandir> mdz_: I'll look at the log, then
<Keybuk> mdz_: there's been no non-trivial bugs filed on it since release -- usually the killers show up within a week
<sean_> i posted it on /frontdesk for now, ill RTFM on bugzilla, and start learning how to use it
<ogra> doko, did you recongize my blackdown mail to elmo and you ? 
<doko> ogra: and?
<ogra> doko, you didnt answer... i asked which version and from where exactly we need....
<doko> ahh, ok, latest version: deb http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/java/linux/debian unstable non-free  / version 1.4.2.02-1
<ogra> doko, can you mail that so elmo doesn miss it ? 
<ogra> to make sabdfl happy...
<doko> or your favourite mirrir at http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux/java-linux-d2.html
<doko> yes, will do
<ogra> thanks :)
<mvo> pitti: just FYI language-support-da is not installable right now 
<pitti> thanks
<Mithrandir> mdz_: installing _gedit_ won't work, but it shouldn't fail to build is what I was trying to say.
<sean_> any thing i should know before i make a breezy upgrade? <doing it via apt-get upgrade-dist>
<mdz_> Mithrandir: the issue is with the livefs build, which involves installing packages, not building them
<mdz_> so whatever has been built and is currently in the archive is uninstallable
<mdz_> that's the problem
<Mithrandir> mdz_: it appears that the gedit and gnome-terminal builds just have to be retried
<{Seb}> tseng has told me but can i confirm
<mvo> sean_: you should know that it's not yet save for a production system
<doko> seb128, daniels: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/OOo2/  if you could have a look at the cairo enabled build ...
<Mithrandir> lafinity: could you please retry the gedit and gnome-terminal builds?
<{Seb}> gmime, gtk-sharp2 and evolution-sharp will be updated for Breezy fina?>
<{Seb}> so Beagle 0.0.13.1 will run (when it comes)
<{Seb}> does the feature freeze stop this?
<ajmitch> I guess it'd depend if they were all moved back to universe
<{Seb}> if there were?
<{Seb}> if they weren't?
<ajmitch> then it'd be easier to break upstream version freeze
<ajmitch> if they are in universe
<slomo> ajmitch: they will move to universe soon afaik
<Burgundavia> beagle is going to stay in universe
<{Seb}> none of them are IIRC
<{Seb}> yes, but the packages it depends are aren't
<ajmitch> beagle is currently in universe
<{Seb}> gmime, gtk-sharp, evolution-sharp are the ones that need updating
<ajmitch> I know
<{Seb}> i'm not bothered about beagle packages
<{Seb}> are those packages going to be updated?
<ajmitch> gtk# is finally api frozen
<{Seb}> gtk-sharp2 though
<Burgundavia> {Seb}, anything in universe can be updated until the very end
<{Seb}> gtk-sharp2 is is main
<{Seb}> does that mean it won't be updated?
<{Seb}> lbevolution-cil is also in main
<{Seb}> but gmime isn't
<{Seb}> does that mean gmime could be updated at the others not Burgundavia?
<Burgundavia> {Seb}, there is talk of moving gtk-sharp2 back to universe
<{Seb}> what about the others?
<{Seb}> libevolution-cil mainly :-)
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Burgundavia> talk to tseng or mdz 
<{Seb}> tseng is away
<slomo> {Seb}: libevolution-cil depends on gtk# so it will be moved too i think
<{Seb}> back into universe?
<slomo> {Seb}: yes
<sean_> so you guys keep a changelog somewhere?
<torkel> sean_: changelog of what?
<sean_> of the work thats done in here, and where packages are going etc?
<torkel> most of the future ideas, plans, etc are in the wiki
<mdke> sean_, you can find changelogs of the individual packages at changelogs.ubuntu.com or on the breezy-changes mailing list
<sean_> oh ok, so you guys all kinda use that as your hub then
<sean_> booya, that helps :) gonna have to subscribe to that list :)
<sean_> thanks :)
<doko> elmo: please dist-upgrade davis/breezy and install render-dev ant libportaudio-dev libmythes-dev libglitz-glx1-dev mdbtools-dev bsh
<elmo> doko: done
<mdke> sean_, there are some other mailing lists you might be interested in, see lists.ubuntu.com
<Mithrandir> well, bed and such.
<sean_> thanks mdke  :) much apreciated
<elmo> mdz: you aren't planning on any special livecd/d-i action in the next 4-5 hours right?
<elmo> on the buildds I mean
<rtcm> doko: there is a bug in the hplip init script
<rtcm> doko: hplip is running as root, where it shouldn't
<rtcm> doko: i'll bug report
<doko> rtcm: bug report number?
<doko> ah, ok. thanks
<rtcm> doko: 14061
<rtcm> doko: while we are at it, isn't there a way to run these daemons only if an HP printer is connected?
<doko> rtcm: honestly, I don't know. Please make this a separate report
<mdz_> elmo: I am trying to get updated livefs builds on all architectures
<elmo> mdz: oh, meh
<mdz_> elmo: mithrandir said gedit and gnome-terminal needed retries
<elmo> mdz: well, FYI all 3 powerpcs are on ppc64, but the live-cd build scripts will need some linxu32 love
<mdz_> elmo: powerpc and i386 succeeded
<elmo> ok
<mdz_> elmo: can you retry those builds if they haven't done so on their own yeT?
<elmo> on all arches?
<mdz_> elmo: amd64, apparently
<mdz_> according to Mithrandir before he went to bed
<elmo> argh jackass is so god damn slow
<elmo> hmm, I suppose I could give it's second CPU back;)
* bfree is away: feed me
<elmo> mdz: given back
<elmo> mdz: [going home, will be back in 30 mins or so] 
<tseng> bah {Seb}
<martinald> hi. is there ubuntu nightly cds?
<pitti> martinald: depends on your definition of night :-) but there is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
<martinald> many thanks :)
<seb128> mdz: they both built on amd64, is -desktop installable now?
<martinald> another quick question :- what is the status of openoffice2 on breezy?
#ubuntu-devel 2006-08-21
<bluefoxicy> I still don't have DMA... does anyone else not have DMA?
<bluefoxicy> Linux icebox 2.6.17-6-686 #2 SMP Fri Aug 11 22:09:15 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
<Burgundavia> bluefoxicy: file a bug
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  I think I did a long time ago
<Burgundavia> it should be enabled on all machines that are known to support it
<Burgundavia> then update teh bug with edgy information
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  the issue was on edgy I had DMA until a certain point, then it just vanished.
<bluefoxicy> and I want to see if anyone else is noticing this, particularly with SATA
<bluefoxicy> bug #55346 if anyone else gets any information on this.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 55346 in linux-source-2.6.17 "libata + sata == nodma" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55346
<ProN00b> who is maintaining the bmp package ?
<ProN00b> sorry
<ProN00b> i mean the beep-media-player package
<ajmitch> ProN00b: it's in universe, so file a bug if you want anything done on it
<ProN00b> who can confirm bugs ?
<LaserJock> I think anybody can
<sladen> ProN00b: preferably anyone who isn't the person originally reporting it
<ProN00b> i don't see a confirm button
<sladen> ProN00b: click on the package-name, it'll drop down and then you'll get another drop down
<\sh> moins
<zul_> hey \sh
<\sh> do we have some issues with the thread lib in edgy? It looks like...http://librarian.launchpad.net/3953539/_usr_bin_wine-preloader.1000.crash
<bluefoxicy> double strength thrusters work wonders in high gravity environments.
<infinity> ...
<bddebian> heh
<TheMuso> c
<bddebian> They TheMuso
<bddebian> Err s/They/Hey/
<eean> hi, I'm a developer of Amarok wondering about your open ports policy.
<eean> what do you all do with Banshee's daap server
<Burgundavia> eean: we don't ship banshee
<eean> haha crap
<Burgundavia> eean: if we did, we would turn it off by default, like we do rb's
<eean> do you turn off rb's client?
<Burgundavia> eean: hmm, no idea. I don't use rb
<Burgundavia> eean: best way to find out is to try it
<Burgundavia> I think we do
<eean> I don't use ubuntu
<Burgundavia> we have livecds
<Burgundavia> they are the same code
<eean> lol
<bluefoxicy> could you guys get me some PIC assembly for ppc32, ppc64, sparc, sparc64, and x86-64?
<bluefoxicy> or actually
<bluefoxicy> I can tell gcc to emit code for those right?
<bluefoxicy> call    longfoo@PLT
<bluefoxicy> crud I can't.  >:|
* pitti waves
<desrt> hello
* Fujitsu greets pitti.
<Hobbsee> hi pitti 
<pitti> Hi Hobbsee 
<simira> mjg59: present? Are you aware of any problems with resume from suspend/hibernate from Knot 1?
<sivang> morning
<ulaas> text refresh problem on gtk widgets. is that a known issue?
<simira> mjg59: nevermind, I'll clear out those 20 which are reported...
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> zelazny.freenode.net
<ulaas> text refresh problem on gtk widgets. is that a known issue?
<ulaas> and it is not gtk widgets
<Fujitsu> ulaas, Edgy with Nvidia?
<ulaas> i think it is pango
<ulaas> yep
<Fujitsu> Yep, known.
<ulaas> ok
<Fujitsu> ABI change in Xorg 7.1 means glyph rendering is a little dodgy with the Nvidia binary driver.
<ulaas> Fujitsu: workarounds?
<Fujitsu> Change to a different driver (ie. nv). If you want 3D acceleration, you're stuck for the moment.
<ulaas> Fujitsu: thanks. is there a bug entry so that i can register myself?
<Fujitsu> Yes, just wait a second, I'll find it.
<Fujitsu> Bug #55802, I believe.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 55802 in xorg-server "nvidia not compatible with Xorg 7.1 RENDER (Fonts don't appear in edgy)" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55802
<sivang> re all
<sivang> has there been a change in hal that makes it no longer detect and manipulate cdrom drives and volumes ?
<sivang> pitti: ^^
<pitti> sivang: not to my knowledge
<sivang> pitti: okay, thanks. This is weird. I cna't even see the CDROM drive in hal-device-manager anymore, not to mention its volumes
<Fujitsu> sivang, appears as SCSI?
<pitti> sivang: does ps aux|grep hal reveal some hal-storage-addon?
<sivang> 108       4413  0.0  0.0   2060   856 ?        S    10:40   0:00 /usr/lib/hal/hald-addon-storage
<sivang> 108       4414  0.0  0.0   2060   856 ?        S    10:40   0:00 /usr/lib/hal/hald-addon-storage
<pitti> ok, that looks fine
<Fujitsu> Is it a SCSI/Serial ATA/USB drive, sivang?
<sivang> Fujitsu: A T43 DVD Burner drive
<Fujitsu> Does it appear as /dev/scd0 or hdX?
<sivang> Fujitsu: the former
<sivang> Fujitsu: /dev/scd0
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> hal does odd things like that these days. I've forgotten the bug about it.
<Fujitsu> It just doesn't see CDs from most SCSI-like CD drives.
<Fujitsu> My laptop also suffers from it.
<sladen> Fujitsu: this is bad, can you file a bug about it
<sivang> Fujitsu: I see
<sivang> Fujitsu: that's a severe bug actually, which *completely* breaks home user backup as it relies heavily on HAL cdrom detection.
<sivang> Fujitsu: the interesting thing about this, is that from the GtkFileChooser you can still see the CDROMS without problems.
<sivang> Fujitsu: I would have thought it also uses hal for detection, so it would break, it also responds nicely when you click it and mount CDROMS though. but it's hidden from hal-device-manager for some reason
<sivang> Fujitsu: not a bug, I now see hal /does/ see it
<sivang> Fujitsu: but it has different way to show scsi cdroms now...no compliance with info.category et al
<Fujitsu> !?
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<sivang> so the device detection code now needs a mjor facelift...
<sivang> :-(
<Fujitsu> Yeah, mine's listed as `SCSI Device' and `SCSI General Interface'... But media isn't recognized by hal...
<Fujitsu> sivang, this is bug #56484.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56484 in hal "hal does not detect media change in USB-DVD-Drive" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56484
<sivang> Fujitsu: yep , this seems it
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Fujitsu> Because they appear as generic devices, not CD-ROM drives... This could get a little messy...
<sivang> pitti: I consider this to be a regression, do you think it would get fixed before release? it's an issue since lots of programs use hal to detect media changes and drives...
<sivang> Fujitsu: very messy actually. I have a carefully constructed code that relies on the identification, so either this is fixed or I Need to rewrite it 
<Fujitsu> sivang, it is definitely a regression, and a it absolutely must be fixed.
<Fujitsu> Totem doesn't work.
<Fujitsu> Sound Juicer doesn't work.
<Fujitsu> *and it
<Fujitsu> A lot of laptops have such CD drives, and it is pretty broken for them.
<sivang> Fujitsu: I added a comment about it to the bug report
<sivang> Fujitsu: thanks for noting this to me
<Fujitsu> Thankyou for adding a comment. I want this bug to receive attention, as it's fairly major. I had to install goobox to rip CDs >_<
<sivang> Fujitsu: what's it's severity ?
<Fujitsu> You can't play CDs because of this bug, as well.
<Fujitsu> sivang, Untriaged at the moment...
<sivang> Fujitsu: cofirmed now.
<sivang> anyway, now really out.
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Fujitsu> See you.
<Fujitsu> Thanks for that severity!
<Nafallo> totally pittis bug ;-)
* Nafallo assigned it :-)
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
* Nafallo thought he would be able to ask Keybuk things :-P
<Nafallo> Keybuk: lol! libnih? :-)
<mdke> jdub: around?
<jdub> mdke: very briefly
<mdke> jdub: Can you tie https://launchpad.net/products/fridge and https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-fridge together? Should only take a minute.
<AndrewLee> Znarl: Okay, here I am.
<Znarl> AndrewLee : Ask your question here, in full, and maybe someone here can assist you.
<AndrewLee> I am the scim-chewing package maintainer in debian, I got several reports from ubuntu users that they cannot use scim-chewing with skype, and I think the package modification is broken in ubuntu.
<AndrewLee> Can someone help me to fix the scim-chewing package in ubuntu, it's a default zh_TW input method, quite much people depends on it.
<sladen> AndrewLee: do you have any bug reports to look at?
<sladen> AndrewLee: skype is Qt and probably statically compliled if they've just downloaded it.  Would it be built with the necessary accessibility/input hooks?
<AndrewLee> sladen: I think the package should keep the same as my debian package, souldn't be modicatied that way.
<sladen> AndrewLee: it depends, if it's to fix bugs, ... :)
<AndrewLee> sladen: I think someone modicated it in a wrong way
<sladen> AndrewLee: that very likely yes.  Is 'scim-chewing' a separate package from 'scim'
<AndrewLee> sladen: scim-chewing is just a module of scim, so it shouldn't install im-switch's configure file itself. And I guess the problem is in the configure file.
<AndrewLee> sladen: scim-chewing is depends on scim, so only scim need im-switch's configure file.
<sladen> AndrewLee: there's 5 deltas with the Debian package at the moment, most of them seem to be GTK 2.10 related
<AndrewLee> sladen: Where can I check the deltas?
<AndrewLee> sladen: I used to can see the patch on http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/scim-chewing.html
<AndrewLee> sladen: But now the file is not found
<sladen> AndrewLee: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/s/scim-chewing/scim-chewing_0.3.1-1ubuntu3/changelog
<sladen> AndrewLee: "Hou ZhengPeng" I think is <freeflying> and is the person who's made the changes to -chewing
<sladen> freeflying: ^^ can you talk to AndrewLee about the scim-chewing changes you've uploaded in edgy
<AndrewLee> sladen: Only changelog doesn't help much for the problem. And it's a big problem in dapper already, how to make a upgrade or backport for dapper?
<sladen> AndrewLee: is this broken in dapper ("6.06 LTS"), or edgy (development)?
<HiddenWolf> sladen, 6.06.1 ;)
<Nafallo> or both...
<AndrewLee> sladen: It's in dapper, but I think might be both.
<sladen> AndrewLee: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/s/scim-chewing/scim-chewing_0.2.1-2ubuntu4/changelog  is the changelog for the dapper version
<AndrewLee> sladen: 0.2.1 is a broken version in upstream
<AndrewLee> sladen: 0.3.1 is a working version
<AndrewLee> sladen: So I suggest to upgrade to 0.3.1 whatever.
<jono> any docs people here?
<AndrewLee> sladen: And the check the conffile stuffs.
* jono is still getting to know everyone :P
<jono> I know mdke :)
<AndrewLee> sladen: s/the/then/
<sladen> jono: mdke Burgwork robitaille ... try  #ubuntu-doc  and  https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-doc
<AndrewLee> Is it possible to upgrade scim-chewing in stable release?
<jono> ahhh cool
<jono> thanks sladen 
<azeem> jono: heya
<sladen> AndrewLee: it's unlikely as it's a released stable release.  However if it's a major issue a case can be made for it then it might be possible.  More likely is that we can backport a small number of required patches in a non-intrusive way
<azeem> jono: Do you know whether there is interest by the Ubuntu community to have a booth at the Systems expo in Munich in late October?
<jono> azeem, hey
<jono> azeem, would be good to talk to a LoCo team to see if we can do something :)
<jono> azeem, would be awesome to be there :)
<AndrewLee> sladen: Hum, but from 0.2.1 to 0.3.1 isn't very small.
<azeem> jono: do you know who is active to this respect in the german LoCo team?
<AndrewLee> sladen: But without the changes, default zh_TW input method is useless.
<sladen> AndrewLee: then it can probably be done as patches :)   It appears to jump a version, how large is the diff.
<jono> azeem, not off hand, I am still getting to know the different chunks of community
<azeem> okie
<sladen> AndrewLee: the problem is that importing a a chunk of brand new code is not necessaryily better than just leaving broken tested code there
<jono> azeem, maybe try http://www.ubuntuusers.de/
<AndrewLee> sladen: The libchewing also needs to be upgrade 
<sladen> AndrewLee: "needs".  Do you mean that libchewing would have to be upgraded if -chewing was upgraded from 0.3.1
<sladen> AndrewLee: how big is the delta between 0.2.1 and 0.3.1 --- you said it wasn't that big?
<AndrewLee> sladen: Yes, it was a wrong design in 0.2.1.
<AndrewLee> sladen: It's quite big I think(for the program)
<sladen> AndrewLee: how wrong, is it usable at all, or completely unusable
<sladen> AndrewLee: what sort of issues are broken.  Is it just related to skype?
<AndrewLee> sladen: 0.2.1 has a big problem, not only for skype
<sladen> AndrewLee: yes, but _what_ big problem
<sladen> AndrewLee: some help in narrowing it down to know what we're discussing is probably a good idea :)
<AndrewLee> sladen: 0.2.1 has a problem in hash data file. So the input method is often canot type 
<AndrewLee> sladen: It make the input method look fine, but cannot type any Chinese character.
<sladen> azeem: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-de  is probably the place to start.  yes, it would be great to have an Ubuntu/Kubuntu prescense, and given that it's German, the Kubuntu lot will probably out number everything else :)
<sladen> AndrewLee: so the bug is  "scim-chewing cannot enter any Chinese character"
<AndrewLee> sladen: Yes
<AndrewLee> sladen: Doesn't that big enough for a Chinese input method?
<sladen> AndrewLee: can you rephrase that, I don't understand "Doesn't that big"
<pitti> hey seb128 
<seb128> hey pitti :)
<pitti> seb128: *hug*
* seb128 hugs pitti
<AndrewLee> sladen: I mean it's big
* Nafallo sees the sprint pop in for a minute before getting disconnected again ;-)
<AndrewLee> sladen: A Chinese input method but cannot type Chinese characters.
<sladen> AndrewLee: I've opened a bug report, can you expand it  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/scim-chewing/+bug/57081
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57081 in scim-chewing "scim-chewing cannot enter any Chinese character" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
<sladen> AndrewLee: do you have pointers to the BTS numbers that related to the issue that you've had reported
<AndrewLee> sladen: I was mentioned that as a known problem in README.Debian
* sladen installs scim-chewing
<sladen> AndrewLee: okay, can you include that in your update to the bug report
<sladen> AndrewLee: as it sounds useful
<AndrewLee> sladen: Let me try, I only used launchpad a time ago for register a mirror site.
<sladen> AndrewLee: what email address did you signup with?
<AndrewLee> sladen: I forgot my password already.
<AndrewLee> sladen: andrew@linux.org.tw
<sladen> AndrewLee: there's 6 "Andrew Lee"'s in Launchpad already :)
<AndrewLee> sladen: err
<AndrewLee> sladen: Could you please update the bug first? I am still trying to recovery my password, seems it will take a while cause my mail server is using greylist.
<sladen> AndrewLee: done
<AndrewLee> sladen: thanks
<AndrewLee> sladen: I am going home for dinner, talk to you later.
<geser> hello
<geser> is someone here familiar with gcj?
<geser> i'm trying to rebuild pdftk against libgcj7-0
<carlos> RicardoPerez: ping
<RicardoPerez> carlos: hi!
<zul> hey
<imbrandon> whip|lwe: ping
<lastnode> imbrandon, ping
<lastnode> :)
<imbrandon> hello lastnode
<zul> hey imbrandon 
<lastnode> hi imbrandon, i just finished making the code use config files, so adding new support situations is a synch :)
<lastnode> *sinch even
<Keybuk> Nafallo: heh, where did you read that? :p
<imbrandon> moins zul , i seen your updates to xen , i'm gonna sync in a bit ;)
<imbrandon> so far running smooth ( even on the amd 64 )
<zul> sweet..
<iwj> .awa
<iwj> Oops.
<imbrandon> gmorning Keybuk
<lastnode> imbrandon, any news of bzr?
<imbrandon> lastnode: cool email me the changes and today i'll setup the bzr branch
<Nafallo> Keybuk: I branched off upstart :-)
<lastnode> imbrandon, mailing now
<Keybuk> Nafallo: oh, any particular reason?
<zul> imbrandon: what about those x problems you were having?
<imbrandon> i dunno somethin with the -6 kernel , fixed it up when i updated
<imbrandon> so i never realy looked into it more
<zul> ok cool
<Nafallo> Keybuk: interest in the project mostly, I want to see where you're taking this :-). and if I can help with it, I'll push branches to LP :-).
<Keybuk> Nafallo: I should probably remember to push more then
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> checkouts is your friend ;-)
<lastnode> imbrandon, btw there was a name change we decided on - you'll see it in the mail :)
<Keybuk> naf	too slow ;)
<imbrandon> lastnode: ok ;)
<Keybuk> Nafallo: too slow ;)
<Nafallo> :-)
<Keybuk> random -- does anyone know how to make irssi work ok on a black/white terminal?
<Keybuk> I can't see my own name <--
<imbrandon> Keybuk: yea i have a theme somewhere that works on b/w well
<zul> i just changed the color of the terminal when that happenened
<imbrandon> i'll have to find it
<Keybuk> as in black writing on a white background
<Keybuk> colour terminal
<imbrandon> yea or turn off ansi colors in the term
<_ion> keybuk: I wouldn't mind more frequent pushes either. :-)
<gnomefreak> Keybuk: change the settings in the terminal
<tseng> Keybuk: the name in the default theme is a light gray iirc
<tseng> Keybuk: change it darker
<_ion> keybuk: You should probably change the irssi theme, if you aren't able or willing to change the terminal's palette.
<gnomefreak> i use white font on black background
<tseng> gnome-terminal has a color picker
<Keybuk> _ion: how do you do that?
<gnomefreak> Keybuk: there are themes on irssi.org
<_ion> keybuk: http://irssi.org/themes
<_ion> keybuk: Download a theme to ~/.irssi and /set theme foo IIRC
<imbrandon> http://irssi.org/themefiles/kompakt.png
<imbrandon> err yea
<imbrandon> kompakt works well on b/w
<imbrandon> Keybuk: http://irssi.org/themefiles/kompakt.theme
<tseng> < Keybuk> as in black writing on a white background
<imbrandon> ahh whoops
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> well yea just choose a theme from there then or modify another .theme
<_ion> keybuk: I'm using the default theme, but i have changed the terminal's background to light gray. It's dark enough for white text to be easily readable.
<_ion> keybuk: (The normal text color is black.)
<Keybuk> _ion, Nafallo: ok, everything except the config file reading code is pushed now
<_ion> keybuk: Thanks.
<Nafallo> Keybuk: nice, I'll update then :-)
<Keybuk> I'll commit and push that once it's not evil and ugly
* Nafallo guess he was to quick with pulling
<Nafallo> ah, 15 revisions more :-)
<Keybuk> you'll need to update libnih too
<Nafallo> right
<Keybuk> actually, you may not _need_ to; I think the new code there is only used by the cfgfile code
<tseng> pitti: it seems like we cant make beagle and kword both use the same wv
<tseng> pitti: shortof rewriting that part of beagle
<pitti> tseng: :(
<tseng> pitti: :(
<tseng> we can keep not building .doc support
<mjg59> tseng: How different are the APIs?
<tseng> mjg59: i didnt really look at 2
<mjg59> I wouldn't have thought it would be /too/ painful
<tseng> mjg59: if you go to the upstream webpage its hard to even tell what is the current line of development
<mjg59> Though obvoiusly I haven't actually checked...
<tseng> yeah I doubt it is awful either, but I'm not jumping to do it
<tseng> I don't exactly have a disk full of .doc files I am itching to have indexed
<tseng> http://sourceforge.net/projects/wvware/
<tseng> this page shows wv2 as the main development
<tseng> if you go to the home page http://wvware.sourceforge.net/
<tseng> only recent posts are about wv1
<\sh> moins
<\sh> who is responsible for glibc these days? :)
<slomo_> \sh: jbailey
<tseng> \sh: guilty parties in the changelog.
<\sh> aye...the infinity :)
<Seveas> rodarvus, nice cloak ;)
* Fujitsu sticks a label onto rodarvus.
<Seveas> hehe
<rodarvus> Seveas, ahn, I hadn't noticed it yet :)
<tseng> mjg59: haha.. wv2 is c++, wv1 is C
<tseng> mjg59: explains that.
<mjg59> Ah
<mjg59> Fair enough, then
<tseng> Mono can't bind C++ directly
<tseng> you make a C lib to bind the C++ lib, then can p/invoke the C lib
<tseng> pretty nasty.
<tseng> its been done, though
<_ion> Hehe.
<The_8472> in case somebody is listening: Azureus 2.5.0.0 has been released (see http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=84122), i suggest you update your repository... it contains a workaround for the gtk/swt bug which prevents popup windows from closing (and causes the azureus support stuff lots of trouble with ubuntu users)
<The_8472> a complete tarball (including libs and startup scripts) will follow soon
<zul> The_8472: can you open a bug in launchpad 
<The_8472> there already is a bug report... but nobody bothered to fix it...
<siretart> The_8472: does the new version work with gcj?
<The_8472> partially, afaik even the newest gcj versions have some issue with NIO code
<The_8472> but it certainly won't work with gcj lower than 4.1.0
<The_8472> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/azureus/+bug/41813 <- here's the bug report
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41813 in azureus "pop-up dialogs doesn't close." [Unknown,Fix released]  
<The_8472> heh
<The_8472> yeah, i don't have an account... so it would be nice if somebody could update it
<The_8472> but i suggest you wait for the full release, it might contain some minor azureus launcher script fixes... at least i hope so
<rodarvus> The_8472, you are able to package it yourself, and ask for a sponsor
<The_8472> i don't use ubuntu
<rodarvus> The_8472, https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<The_8472> we just have quite some trouble with ubuntu-users at the azureus support, some of them don't even know how to locate a file and replace it :/
<Mithrandir> pitti: can we make apport attach the core dumps rather than including them inline?
<The_8472> -> the popup problem caused quite some trouble for us
<sladen> The_8472: and pop in #ubuntu-motu
<The_8472> sladen, ok... should i restate my request there, or ... ?
<sladen> The_8472: they should be able to give you a hand with checking your patch over and sponsoring it
<The_8472> patch? it's a new release version ^^
<The_8472> if you want the patch you can find it in the debian bugreport
<sladen> The_8472: looks fairly sane.  Can you prepare a debdiff?
<The_8472> nope, i don't use ubuntu or debian
<sladen> The_8472: one for dapper-updates and another for edgy if the issue is still there.  Use the patch included in the report, rather than doing a new version
<The_8472> ok, just to make it clear: i'm not an ubuntu or debian-user. I'm azureus support staff. We released a new version that fixes a bug many ubuntu users have a problem with. And since linux packages of azureus usually mess with our auto-update system i'm requesting that the repo-version of azureus is updated too.
<sladen> The_8472: ah, gotcha.  Thanks for managing to come and alert us then :)
<The_8472> good :)
<sladen> The_8472: it looks like the new Debian version basically just incorporates that change
<The_8472> yeah, i know... but there is a new azureus release now
<Lathiat> The_8472: Is this the cant hide window bug?
<The_8472> yep
<Lathiat> ah yeh thats been driving me nuts ;)
<The_8472> hehehe
<Lathiat> have to continually restart az 
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> so the debian version just included a patch to fix this issue?
<The_8472> yes... debian is just the old version +  fix
<Lathiat> hrm well updating to that would be preferable
<The_8472> the new version already has that fix too... and other things
<Lathiat> are there any other compelling reasons to go completely to the new release?
<Lathiat> any security issues or other major bugs?
<The_8472> it's new?
<Lathiat> Well unfortunately the general policy is once a release is out is to put maintenance fixes in
<The_8472> we prefer to update all users to the newest version, it simply makes support easier
<Lathiat> not ugprad eto new versions willy nilly else we'd be chasing bugs in old releases forever...
* Lathiat nods, thats understandable
<Lathiat> could you file a bug at http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug and subscribe me (lathiat)
<Lathiat> or just give me the bug number at least
<The_8472> *sigh* i guess i'll have to create an account then...
<Lathiat> well i'd appreciate it if you did :)
<sladen> Lathiat: bug #41813
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41813 in azureus "pop-up dialogs doesn't close." [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41813
<The_8472> basically our problem is that we have an auto-update feature in place but many distros modify azureus or set permissions that prevent autoupdates... which delays the updates until the repos catch up, which can take quite a while
* Lathiat nods the files are owned by root as such the auto-update doesnt work
<infinity> The_8472: Uhm, yeah, circumventing packaging systems with specific auto-update features for each piece of software is a NIGHTMARE.
<The_8472> well, package systems are a nightmare for us too :P
<Lathiat> eheh
<infinity> The_8472: Also, see Lathiat's comment about root-owned files, plus sysadmins thta want stable (ie: unchanging) systems, etc, etc.
<Lathiat> you dont want users messing with package installed files, generally
<infinity> Software exists to satisfy users, not to serve the programmers.
<Lathiat> The_8472: itd be interesting if perhaps the autoupdate could place the udpated files in the users homedir or something, i guess
<infinity> (Yes, the development versions serve you, but you can install them without trying to force them on other people)
<Lathiat> tho that could lead to some confusion
<The_8472> user joins support... "bug, bug, how to fix it" - "just enable the autoupdater" - "i can't... i have ubuntu"
<The_8472> ...
<Mithrandir> The_8472: just provide an easy way to completely disable the auto-updater when making packages so if an user downloads from your website he's got the autoupdater but if it's installed from a package, it's disabled.
<Lathiat> Mithrandir: well thats half the problem
<The_8472> <infinity> (Yes, the development versions serve you, but you can install them without trying to force them on other people) <- i'm not talking about dev versions
<The_8472> the auto updater only updates stable ones
<Lathiat> 8472.. species 8472?
<The_8472> yep ^^
<Lathiat> hehe
<The_8472> Mithrandir, well... you can disable it, but it's a setting within azureus and the config file is only created after the 1st startup
* Hobbsee waves to Mithrandir 
* tseng waves to Hobbsee, Mithrandir 
<zul> oh hey Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi zul, tseng 
<Hobbsee> hey rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hey Hobbsee 
<The_8472> ok, so... how are our chances that ubuntu will ship the new azureus release version in the next few days/weeks?
<Lathiat> The_8472: we generally dont update to new upstream versions once a release is out
<Lathiat> The_8472: we would most certainly incorporate the patches in debian, tho
<Lathiat> and the new version could prob ably be put in dapper-backports
<The_8472> well... at least something...
<Lathiat> which means its available in packages to those who wish to run newer software
<Lathiat> altho im not sure if -backports is up and running yet for dapper
<Lathiat> (can anyone shed more light on that?)
<Nafallo> Lathiat: maybe dapper-updates for the debian fix and the new upstream for edgy?
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: it's still broken, i believe
<Lathiat> Nafallo: thats what i was thinking when -backports is fixed tho new az could go there i see that being a usefull backport
<Nafallo> Lathiat: yea, sure. but -updates could atleast contain the patch if there is a very annoying problem, which is sounds like it is.
<Lathiat> Nafallo: yep as i said above :)
<Lathiat> its definitely a major bug woirth updating 
<The_8472> *cough* the debian fix has been around for quite some time and nobody ported it to ubuntu... that's why i'm pushing the issue a bit, since the issue is supposed to be fixed with our new release. And as long as it is not fixed in the repos we have to tell users to use a not-package-managed build of azureus
<Lathiat> The_8472: nod, we should get that synced soon then
<Nafallo> The_8472: or to use the debian package, no? :-)
<The_8472> we don't ship .rpms or .debs... just a bz2 w/o installing mechanisms
<Nafallo> The_8472: well, debian DOES have their debs in their free-for-all archive :-). it would be trivial to install the .deb with patch from there.
<Nafallo> that's a better workaround than to make people compile things IMHO.
<The_8472> hrrm, maybe...
<The_8472> nah, we don't let them compile stuff ^^
<Nafallo> but anyway, Lathiat will fix all this now ;-)
<The_8472> we just tell them to download the compiled archive from our homepage
<The_8472> yeah, i hope so :)
<Lathiat> Thanks for stopping by The_8472, glad to see developers coming to us to help get things sorted, I'll try see that the new version is synced soon
<Lathiat> I have to head off now, ttyl :)
<The_8472> thx and cu
<Nafallo> still messing with the package management system if you start replacing random files out of ~ ;-).
<Lathiat> Nafallo: azureus unpacks standlone
<Lathiat> Nafallo: theres no need to install it in /usr /usr/local or anywhere
<Lathiat> its quite nice like trhat
<Lathiat> it just works (tm)
<Nafallo> aha. I heard it was java and have never even thought on using it myself :-).
<Lathiat> its by far the best around and the java side of things doesnt let it down too much
<Nafallo> ...because of that :-)
* Nafallo has torrentflux ;-)
<Lathiat>  TF and others arent nearly as flexible to modify dl/ul rates on the fly and pick files to download and whatnot, so i find it nice
<Lathiat> would be nie if az could get a better web interface tho
<Lathiat> both of the two that exist lack a few major things
<Lathiat> like ability to upload and whatnot
<Lathiat> anyway
<Lathiat> i need to go as i said ;)
<The_8472> ubuntu... *check* ... now i have to bother some other disto managers :)
<Lathiat> *g*
<Nafallo> The_8472: :-)
<AndrewLee> sladen: hi, I am back. What's the next I can do?
<sladen> AndrewLee: ideally, find flyingfree, who was the last person to touch that package
<AndrewLee> sladen: okay, so he can do the backports, right?
<Nafallo> freeflying :-)
<Keybuk> mommy!  this patch broke my code!
<Nafallo> Keybuk: ? :-)
<Keybuk> Nafallo: oh, just mount ... nothing important
<Nafallo> hah
<rodarvus> ajmitch, ping
<Keybuk> WOO!  HACK SNACKS!
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: that the swap file stuff, about how the swap file doenst seem to get mounted on boot?
<Keybuk> actually, I lie
<Keybuk> it's fdisk
<ajmitch> rodarvus: pong
<rodarvus> ajmitch, seb128 told me you are working on updated compiz packages for edgy, is this true? :)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: It's a partition, not a file.
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<ajmitch> rodarvus: yes
<ajmitch> rodarvus: not very actively at the moment, but I did do some
<rodarvus> ajmitch, I've fixed the last known bug in Mesa, and would like to test aiglx locally
<StevenK> ajmitch can't help but want bling for Edgy.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: point.  i'm half asleep.
<rodarvus> so, if you have something for me to test, it would be muchly appreciated
* ajmitch should also be asleep now
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: just install spiftacity and use that to see if aiglx works?  Unless you need compiz, that is.
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: *shrug*
<ajmitch> rodarvus: sure, tomorrow sometime? there's some patches I'd need to grab to get it going properly for aiglx, I think
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: -v
* ajmitch is way past bedtime now :)
<StevenK> Keybuk: I'm happy to debug Hobbsee's problem, but I have no idea how the UUID stuff in Edgy works.
<rodarvus> Mithrandir, I never heard about spiftacity, actually
* Hobbsee knows nothing, nothign at all
* Hobbsee got the swap workign again though - just that i have to do it on each boot
<rodarvus> Mithrandir, I'll test it now, thanks
<rodarvus> (so, no, I don't *need* compiz, just want to test basic aiglx)
<Mithrandir> spiftacity just gives you drop shadows and such, but it should show if stuff works or not.
<_ion> ajmitch: Perhaps the packages at http://www.beerorkid.com/compiz/ would be helpful as a starting point. They are very recent.
<doko> infinity, cprov: please requeue openoffice.org on i386, powerpc, sparc
<\sh> infinity: I don#t know if you are the right person for glibc, but you touched it the last time...it looks like that we have a problem in glibc and threading...wine is segfaulting...but the same source works in dapper quite fine.. (pls have a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/56965)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56965 in wine "[Edgy]  Consistent segfault when starting wine" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<cprov> doko: done
<doko> cprov: thanks!
<Mithrandir> nothing like TIL-maintenance for glibc.
<\sh> Mithrandir: hmm...then it's really strange...
<\sh> I don't even get a real backtrace via gdb 
<Mithrandir> \sh: it was more of a tounge in cheek comment.  Though, Adam is supposed to be taking over glibc, slowly.
<bddebian> doko: Is there any chance I could get you to look over something for me?
<doko> bddebian: probably not today, if it's universe
<\sh> Mithrandir: well, looks like that I need some help ;)
<bddebian> doko: Well it's diacanvas2 but I'm not sure if it's a pyobjects issue or not.  Anyway, no prob.
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: hi
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: hi
<freeflying_> \sh: hi
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: that swap bug i mentioned earlier seems to have been a heisenburg bug - i fidled with the fstab a bit more, and got it working properly.
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: Could you please upgrade scim-chewing 0.3.1 in dapper?
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: sladen ask me to find you 
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: sorry, scim-chewing in main, so need core-dev's sponsor upload
<Keybuk> did you have an unresumed suspend image in it?
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: Let me ask if sladen can sponsor this
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: okey
<AndrewLee> sladen: Ping, freeflying has answered, he needs core-dev's sponsor for the upload.
<Keybuk> \o/ fdisk builds again now
<AndrewLee> sladen: Could you please sponsor the upgrade of scim-chewing(also libchewing) in dapper for freeflying?
<sladen> freeflying_: since you were the last person to touch it, can you check over the sanity of the patches and test the result (me zh is a little rusty ;-)
<freeflying_> sladen: okay
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: me?  shouldnt have.   i dont think so.  suspend tends to send my machine in a kernel panic, or come back weirdly, so i tend not to use it.
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: Do you know scim-chewing doesn't work with skype?
<\sh> freeflying: moins
<\sh> sladen: ping
<freeflying_> \sh: hehe, just need your sponsor  :)
<\sh> sladen: tell me, do you own www.paul.sladen.org? ,-) 
<\sh> freeflying_: you wanted to fix wine? ,-) 
<sladen> \sh: I think sladen is supermarket in German or something
<sladen> \sh: yes
<sladen> gawd, the wireless there must be pathetic
<Nafallo> indeed
<freeflying_> \sh:  :)
<mjg59> crimsun: Hey
<mjg59> crimsun: So I'm at the point of needing a mechanism for writing stuff to a user's .asoundrc file...
<mjg59> crimsun: The situation is that there's a running daemon that speaks to my bluetooth headset
<mjg59> crimsun: And an alsa plugin that speaks to that daemon
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: Would you mind to solve the skype issue in this future upload?
<mjg59> crimsun: But obviously there's a need to get that plugin into the .asoundrc
<freeflying_> Riddell: how about the issue of scim-qtimm, guys can't input anything in skype in dapper and edgy
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: Use XIM instead of qtimm for specific problem??
<AndrewLee> s/problem/program/
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: I've asked Riddell for revert it back, and Riddell took it already
<freeflying_> AndrewLee:  xim will be ok
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: I think XIM will be fine too, but how to make users to get the right updates?
<G0SUB> pitti: hello
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: then we need set it defaultly in im-switch's conffile
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: Ubuntu users is not like debian users who can write a wrapper or change to XIM theirseves
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: but I'd prefer to scim
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: Yeah, please make things as simple as possible. :)
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: but you know that skype is not supported in ubuntu  :)
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: either in main nor in universe  :)
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: I know, but doesn't ubuntu support their users?
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: Skype works fine in debian with my scim-chewing package, why should it not work in ubuntu?
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: :), that because you use xim 
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: And I can't decide to use xim or scim defaultly by myself
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: I need discuz this with others
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: If the reason is ubuntu doesn't support skype, so my package in ubuntu won't work with skype, I will think maybe drop my package from ubuntu is easier for me, cause I am getting a lot of users reports.
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: so, please give me time  :)
<AndrewLee> freeflying_: Okay, please. It's almost drive crazy alreay.
<freeflying_> AndrewLee: sorry for bring you so many bug report  :)
<AndrewLee> freeflying|aeay: Didn't you get any report?
<freeflying|aeay> AndrewLee: ya
<AndrewLee> freeflying|aeay: Maybe because user likes to report to me
<freeflying|aeay> AndrewLee: :)
<AndrewLee> freeflying|aeay: Maybe they don't know how to write you in zh_CN. :)
<freeflying|aeay> AndrewLee: hmmm
<AndrewLee> freeflying|aeay: I almost run out of power, talk to you tomorrow.
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: do you know that volumeid/etc is breaking?   http://rafb.net/paste/results/37KA5R14.html when installing it
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: oh, weird
<Keybuk> I fixed that bug before I uploaded
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: indeed.
<Keybuk> maybe I uploaded the wrong one
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> quite possibly
* Hobbsee didnt go fishing in your code :P
<Keybuk> I have to upload another anyway
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: oh, no, I fixed a different occurrence of that bug
<Keybuk> clearly I have been writing C too much recently and forgotten my sh-fu
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: ah right, fair enough
<Hobbsee> heh
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> how to no apport runs: your load is ~8 :-P
<Keybuk> Nafallo: I've suggested to pitti that it doesn't run for things in /home
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
<Nafallo> or for things that the user killed might be an addition ;-)
<Nafallo> pitti: ^
<Keybuk> lamont: interesting util-linux upload for you ;)
<Keybuk> lifeless: OI*$!$(*!$("IOIWRWQRJWI!
<Keybuk> syndicate init% bzr revert job.c
<Keybuk> bzr: ERROR: [Errno 20]  Not a directory: 'init/job.c'
<Keybuk> accurate, yet not the useful response I was looking for
* tseng counters
<Nafallo> :-)
<tseng> Setting up volumeid (093-0ubuntu10) ...
<tseng> /var/lib/dpkg/info/volumeid.postinst: 24: Syntax error: "fi" unexpected (expecting "then")
<tseng> dpkg: error processing volumeid (--configure):
<tseng> ^ useful
<Keybuk> tseng: update
<G0SUB> pitti: you have mail btw.
<Mithrandir> Riddell,ogra (and the rest of you lot): would you have a problem with me scheduling a knot-2 for early next week and then a knot-3 two weeks after that?
<Mithrandir> it'd mean freeze starting Monday morning and lasting until it's out, ditto two weeks later.
<ogra> Mithrandir: cant we say late next week, edubuntu is in very bad shape
<ogra> (i'm at 716Mb and have no idea why yet)
<Mithrandir> ogra: well, you have a week to get that fixed, then, don't you?
<ogra> well, i wanted to concentrate on features this week :)
<Riddell> Mithrandir: good with me
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: cool, would be nice to have a knot with upstart on it ;)
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: sure.
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: get coding!
<ogra> haha
<simira> so, when's dinner?
<ogra> simira: when we want it ... its up to us to find a place )
<Keybuk> ALL YOU CAN EAT SUSHI!
<fabbione> i am planning to :)
<Keybuk> (which sounds like a repeat of the London Plague waiting to happen)
<simira> I think I'll avoid the sushi. Besides, I have to pay my own food.
<fabbione> considering i saw more than 3 sushi resturant in such a small place, i believe they have to be ok
<simira> anyone here NOT going for sushi?
<bddebian> Wow, hi fabbione
<Keybuk> simira: I will not be
<ogra> Keybuk: simira, i'll join you at the non-sushi place :)
<lloydinho> I'm up for something other than sushi, too.
<Nafallo> Keybuk: which is the working udev? ubuntu10?
<Nafallo> Keybuk: ah, 11, nm then :-)
<Keybuk> ubuntu11
<rodarvus> anyone knows if the wine fest is a multi-day event, or if it was just yesterday?
<Keybuk> the second one :p
<Keybuk> rodarvus: it was multi-day that ended yesterday, afaiui
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: according to doko (I think), it was the last day.
<simira> I think that might be a good thing
<rodarvus> oh :/
<rodarvus> thats sad news
<fabbione> how can that be good news? it was nice music and fun
<simira> rodarvus: you surely will be able to find wine on eating places still. And maybe even beer.
<rodarvus> simira, lets hope so :)
<Mithrandir> mmm, beer.
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: we're in the wrong bit of Germany for beer
<Nafallo> :-)
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: mmm, beer.
<Keybuk> liquid lunch!
<pitti> Two beers are like one bread, but then you didn't yet drink something
<Keybuk> pitti is clearly drunk already
<Mithrandir> you could always drink a beer to fix that
<pitti> sabdfl: hey Mark!
<sabdfl> hey hey pitti
<fabbione> hey Mark
<Keybuk> I hear you're joining us tomorrow?
<sabdfl> how's wiesbaden?
<fabbione> sabdfl: small?
<sabdfl> Keybuk: i'll get there in time for the last whiskey bof, i expect
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: hotel-ish.
<Keybuk> the wine is good, the bandwidth ... no so good
<sabdfl> Keybuk: well then, drink more wine!
<Keybuk> is that official approval from the CEO to drink as much wine as possible?
<Keybuk> can we expense it?
<zul> hey sabdfl 
<sabdfl> Keybuk: you can, but it will bounce
<Burgwork> hey sabdfl 
<Keybuk> darn
<sabdfl> taxi drivers shudder when canonical picks up the tab at developer summits, apparently
<sabdfl> hi zul, Burgwork
<sfllaw> sabdfl: I didn't ge that one.
<sfllaw> Is it because we're cheap?
* sladen will remember to avoid the taxi drivers
<Nafallo> Keybuk: don't drink while coding upstart please ;-)
<fabbione> code looks beter when you are drunk
<fabbione> better even
<Mithrandir> fabbione: but does it compile better?
<zul> heh fabbione drunk right now?
<Keybuk> Nafallo: I find that one or two glasses are a prerequisite
<fabbione> Mithrandir: wel gcc runs faster!
* fabbione can't type
<Mithrandir> fabbione: from your typing, your gcc already runs with blazing speed.
<fabbione> Mithrandir: ROFL
<sfllaw> The nice thing about coding while drunk is that it works out better in the end.
<Nafallo> haha
* Mithrandir twiddles his thumbs a bit while the dist-upgrade completes.
<Nafallo> :-)
<sfllaw> You see, if you're too clever when you code, you can't debug it properly.
<Keybuk> that's actually very true
<Keybuk>  * cfg_read_script:                                                             
<Keybuk>  * @file: memory mapped copy of file, or string bugger,
<Keybuk> oops
<rodarvus> does anyone at wiesbaden has a cd-r handy I could use?
<simira> rodarvus: pong
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: I think both Colin and simira has cd-rws, at least.
<rodarvus> simira, thanks a lot!
<Treenaks> this aiglx stuff in edgy (+ new compiz packages from one 'quinn') rocks!
<rodarvus> Treenaks, is it already working 100% for you?
<Keybuk> yeah, edgy is DA BOMB
<simira> rodarvus: np :)
<Treenaks> rodarvus: 100% enough ;)
<Treenaks> rodarvus: (cube desktops, nice window create/destroy/minimize effects, transparency
<fabbione> Treenaks does it work on ppc?
<Treenaks> rodarvus: only some opengl apps break unless you fullscreen them
<Treenaks> fabbione: I haven't tried yet
<Treenaks> fabbione: this is 386 + ati driver
<fabbione> Treena: slacker :)
<Treenaks> so it should
<fabbione> Treenaks: ati or fglrx?
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: have you enabled aiglx by default or is it just the same extra X server as before?
<Treenaks> fabbione: ti
<Treenaks> fabbione: ati, too
<fabbione> ok
<rodarvus> Mithrandir, aiglx is part of xorg-server 1.1.1
<Treenaks> it's aiglx for me, too
<rodarvus> but I have some extra patches which are not yet included on upstream (I plan to add these later this week)
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: shiny.
<Treenaks> fabbione: quinn doesn't make ppc packages, that's why I haven't tried.. if somebody would upload compiz-latest to edgy/universe... :P
<fabbione> Treenaks: you can still build it locally
<Treenaks> fabbione: sure, but then I have to upgrade my entire macmini to edgy
<Treenaks> which I'm not doing yet
<fabbione> Treenaks: give me the url with the source..
<fabbione> i can build it here
<fabbione> Treenaks: send it via email please.
<Treenaks> fabbione: ubuntu.compiz.net
<Treenaks> oh
<fabbione> i am on the wqay off for dinner and no irc logging enable
<Treenaks> ok
<fabbione> and i am lazy to look at irc logs :)
<bddebian> fabbione: You were having a child right?
<Treenaks> fabbione: sent
<simira> bddebian: at least his wife were
<crimsun> mjg59: ok. I looked at http://bluetooth-alsa.cvs.sourceforge.net/bluetooth-alsa/alsa-plugin-sco/alsa-plugins/asound.conf?revision=1.1.1.1&view=markup briefly, so it looks like we'll need to extend asoundconf(1) to write stanzas, too, if you want the whole shebang. We could merge the bt alsa plugin into the alsa-plugins source package, too.
<bddebian> simira: Somehow I knew someone was going to say that :-)
<Nafallo> bddebian: I was thinking about it ;-)
<simira> so, non-fish, warm dinner-expedition from the lobby at 20:00?
<fabbione> bddebian: yes. i had him 3 weeks ago
<fabbione> Treenaks: thanks
<bddebian> fabbione: Awesome, congrats
<fabbione> bddebian: thanks
<mjg59> crimsun: It's not actually the sco plugin I'm interested in, but yeah
<ogra> tseng, you are intrested in g-p-m maintenance ? 
<tseng> ogra: well
<tseng> ogra: im not particuarly interested in maintaining our patch set between major versions if thats what you mean
<tseng> ogra: I'm happy to bump the version and keep it on an even keel
<ogra> well, i'd love to hand it over to someone who actually is intrested in it ... 
<tseng> the patches were scary
<ogra> they are
<tseng> given the delta in gpm upstream
<tseng> maybe it was a one-time thing
<simira> ogra: if it's not a large package, and you can give me a teacher and a few months, I'll consider it
<ogra> it costs me half a day up to a whole every time to merge them into new code
<tseng> i tried before you and gave up
<ogra> and they are very ubuntu specific 
<Nafallo> simira: you already have a good teacher in-house :-)
<tseng> so I likely won't be any use if he breaks things around again
<tseng> in between times I can look after it
<ogra> that'd be fine already, lest build a g-p-m team ;)
<tseng> ok :)
<tseng> when versions come out I will test and update them this cycle
<simira> Nafallo: I am sceptical at trying the in-house peace... we're both too impatient at times
<tseng> and next time, we will talk again
* tseng hugs ogra 
<Nafallo> simira: :-)
* ogra hugs tseng 
<simira> hm
<tseng> simira: sorry.
<tseng> simira: I'll give you mono if you want it
* tseng hides, far far away
<Nafallo> ROTFL
<simira> :)
<Nafallo> simira: you should hide to ;-)
<simira> Nafallo: I am running for food instead. Does that count?
* tseng has been trying to build mono on the latest nokia 770
<Nafallo> simira: yepp, if you're not telling tseng where you're going :-)
<tseng> it doesnt love me.
<simira> Nafallo: I don't even know myself yet
<Nafallo> simira: see! :-)
<simira> tseng: mono or the 770? I'll gladly take the latter
<tseng> haha
<tseng> I just got mine on friday
<simira> better get rid of it soon, then
<tseng> arent you near helsinki now?
<simira> me? Not really. I'm usually in Oslo.
<tseng> oh
<simira> but not present, and I have been encouraged not to tell you anymore
<tseng> Northern Europe is sort of a blur to me
<sladen> iceland, uk, norway, sweden, finland, russia
<simira> denmark?
<tseng> uk?
<sladen> nah, too far south :)
<simira> but uk counts? nah
<Nafallo> haha
<simira> men atte...
<Nafallo> s/uk/denmark/ :-)
<simira> f000000d
<simira> Mithrandir: honey?
<Nafallo> simira: I think he would like more than just honey ;-)
<simira> Nafallo: I am not convinced. Anyhow, I'm off.
<Nafallo> like... honey and beer :-P
<tseng> meade?
<Nafallo> simira: see you later :-)
<sladen> ooh, demark is level with York->Aberdeen.  So Scotland is more northerly ;-)
<Mithrandir> simira: yes dear.  Soon
<zul> what about the faroe islands?
<tseng> Mithrandir: simira is the new mono maintainer.
<bddebian> w00t, go simira
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<tseng> hi
<bddebian> Hey tseng, how's your python/pygtk foo? :-)
<bddebian> s/foo/fu/ ?
<Mithrandir> tseng: well, she wants to maintain stuff, so... :-)
<sladen> zul: cheat!  You win
<zul> sladen: i didnt cheat i know my geography
<tseng> bddebian: I am not very experienced in python at all
<tseng> bddebian: starting to get my bearings in gtk
<tseng> ask and someone might be able to help you
<zul> sladen: that and i had friends there :P
<bddebian> tseng: I do ask and apparently either no one knows or no one has time. :-(
<tseng> bddebian: er
<tseng> bddebian: what was the question?
<bddebian> tseng: diacanvas2 is broken.  I fixed a few issues with the move to pycentral but it still fails.  http://pastebin.us/3488
<tseng> ugh nasty python build system?
<bddebian> tseng: Aye
<ivoks> hi all
<bddebian> tseng: But what's weird is if I run python setup.py in a pbuilder login I don't get those errors
<bddebian> Hi ivoks
<tseng> bddebian: dont really know
<bddebian> tseng: NP, thx
<tseng> bddebian: although lamda functions in a build system is pretty scary if you ask me
<bddebian> Heya Glouiboulga
<tseng> +b
<Glouiboulga> hi bddebian 
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> zelazny.freenode.net
<o_cee> anyone from the printing team around?
<tseng> doubtful, its nearly 9pm at the sprint
<zul> and they might be out to dinner or something
<zul> mmm...food
<o_cee> m'kay.. tired of Bug #6017 :)  thought i'd help to find the cause
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6017 in foo2zjs "Update to latest package to make HP LaserJet 1020 work" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6017
<gnomefreak> volumeid wont configure on edgy. assuming this is known but just making sure
<Treenaks> gnomefreak: just add 'then' to the end of the if line it complains about
<gnomefreak> no need to recompile it?
<Nafallo> gnomefreak: ubuntu11 is on it's way :-)
<gnomefreak> Nafallo: ty
<nicolaw> good evening/morning/afternoon
<Treenaks> gnomefreak: just edit the /var/lib file it complains about </evilhack> :)
<nicolaw> i'm told this is a good place to gauge the possibility of getting a package added to ubuntu
<zul> better place would be motu
<nicolaw> ah, there a channel or the wiki?
<zul> #ubuntu-motu
<bddebian>  #ubuntu-motu
<nicolaw> :) mucho tarly
<lfittl> which would be the right package to add udev rules for smartcard readers? (gnupg would be my guess, but I am afraid that such a change to an important main package won't be accepted)
<Treenaks> lfittl: the package which provides a library to use them
<lfittl> Treenaks: support is included into gpg / gpg2
<Treenaks> lfittl: no separate libraries?
<Treenaks> so other programs (say, Netscape) can also use it?
<Treenaks> s/Netscape/Firefox/
<lfittl> Treenaks: hmm, can't say for sure there is no library, but gnupg doesn't need one, it includes all necessary code
<Treenaks> hm.. ok
<lfittl> Treenaks: do you think it is possible to get a patch integrated into the gnupg package? (would be adding one file and modifying debian/rules to install it)
<Treenaks> I have no idea
<lfittl> k, then I will just try it, thanks :)
<Tonio_> little question, I deleted my gnupg key accidentally and don't have access to my backup actually
<Tonio_> can I create a new key and upload it to my launchpad account to get upload rights ?
<gnomefreak> Tonio_: running gpg --list-keys or whatever the command is doesnt re-create the ~/.gnupg file? assuming you deleted that file not just your key out of it
<geser> hello
<geser> which buildd builds the arch-all packages?
<Tonio_> gnomefreak: well I deleted the full folder so I don't think there is any chance to recover anything.... I simply need a backup but my backup machine is packed since I'm leaving my appartment :)
<Tonio_> gnomefreak: and it is at about 500 km from here :)
<gnomefreak> oh thats bad
<Nafallo> geser: i386
<Tonio_> gnomefreak: well not that much, since I have a backup, the pointis just I wonder if, since I have the possibility to add a key to my launchpad account, that would help me to revover upload rights temporary
<Tonio_> s/revover/recover
<geser> that explains why there is no new openoffice.org-common as the i386 build failed
<Nafallo> ah, it failed. that's why the build was faster than 11h :-)
<BlackBrain> hello
<zyga> hello :)
<bddebian> Hello BlackBrain, zyga :)
<tseng> mdz: not sucked into mao yet? :)
<imbrandon> heya mdz you ubucon-ite
<mdz> I haven't played that game in some time
<mdz> imbrandon: I'm very far from there now ;-)
<imbrandon> heh i bet ;)
<zul> hey mdz 
<imbrandon> mdz quick question , i dident see it anywhere but she might have emailed, did hobbsee ask for a uvfe for kopete by chance ?
<imbrandon> s/hobbsee/anyone/g s/$/ for version 0.12.2/g
<mdz> imbrandon: maybe, I'm behind on email
<mdz> zulhi
<imbrandon> np just wondering , i wanted to check before i did , but i dident see it on LP
<tseng> oh, we arent meant to file exceptions as bugs are we?
* tseng mailed to mdz
<imbrandon> the wiki says to but ive seen it done both ways
<tseng> I see.
<imbrandon> LP is good for tracking approval ;)
<tseng> i know we started doing universe uvf there at the end of dapper
* imbrandon files a bug and then emails with a link to the bug ;)
<ajmitch> tseng: dunno, I thought we were meant to file bugs for UVF, at least that's what I was told
<fdoving> there are reports that the new and shiny xorg security update packages leaves X unusable. can anyone confirm this? We've got 3-4 people reporting the same in #kubuntu.
<schnabel> hello
<schnabel> I want to create a graphical password request for my Gtk Programm but dont know how to do
<schnabel> can anyone help me?
<abattoir> hello, is there a known problem of X breaking w/ latest dapper updates?
<crimsun> I'm discussing it currently with someone. We need to verify it across all drivers.
#ubuntu-devel 2006-08-22
<Surak> This is happening quite often here: *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x0000000000bca880 *** - Did I find a good way to test the ram?
<bddebian> Howdy
<garnoma> does edgy offer an easy option to use xgl?
<garnoma> you know, like suse, mandriva, or other desktop-oriented distros
<tseng> no, its not as easy as suse
<garnoma> tseng: on purpose, or is it just not a priority?
<tseng> not a priority
<tseng> if you want to get that control panel thing working on ubuntu, be our guest
<garnoma> tseng: what if we just added a script?
<tseng> what sort of script?
<robertj> should i file a bug stating that xrandr should be on a per-monitor basis?
<garnoma> tseng: a simple bash script which follows all the xgl installation steps
<tseng> there arent really any steps
<tseng> just changing the X symlink
<garnoma> tseng: i mean we shouldn't necessarily implement it in a control panel if it's not a priority yet
<garnoma> tseng: oh, so xgl is there in edgy, after all!
<garnoma> tseng: that's nice
<tseng> the control panel is in suse
<tseng> and I am not sure about this we business
<garnoma> tseng: i know
<tseng> 90% of the control panel configures compiz
<tseng> anyway
<tseng> our xorg includes aiglx, which is more the direction we are going for a default
<tseng> xgl is there for those who are interested
* bluefoxicy installs avahi but can't figure out how to share files
<bluefoxicy> scp time
<garnoma> tseng: we still lack drivers for aiglx
<garnoma> tseng: xgl is an imperative for now for many
<garnoma> tseng: so i'd say it's not just for "those who are interested"
<tseng> it is hardly an imperative at all
<tseng> xgl doesnt work on most hardware either
<garnoma> tseng: so you mean simply chaging the symlink also brings compiz?
<tseng> no, I don't
<garnoma> tseng: then i guess we do need a script
<LaserJock> it's hard to install compiz?
<Surak> Is hwdata still being used?
<tseng> you can write a script
<tseng> it isnt a "we"
<tseng> a package script shouldnt change user xinit files
<tseng> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager
<Surak> I intentionally broke hwdata's videoaliases file, however "db_get xserver-xorg/config/device/driver " still gives me correct results.
<Surak> which means the video drivers database is coming from somewhere else
<nictuku> hi, what package updated fstab to reflect uuid changes?
<crimsun> currently, volumeid.
<garnoma> i didn't say "we should", i said "we need" :)
<nictuku> I'll confirm that, but I think the inst scripts 'removed' the swap fs line
<Surak> I thought that hwdata was used only to determine the video driver - if this is not the case, why it's still there?
<garnoma> tseng: it could backup them
<garnoma> tseng: what do you mean 90% of the control panel configures compiz?
<crimsun> mine's present:  UUID=c2ce6095-841a-4ec6-8ff4-a0c0c1a43920 none swap sw 0 0
<LaserJock> garnoma: I think the problem was with the "we" part not the "should/need" part
<tseng> garnoma: i meant what i said, the main purpose of the panel is to set gconf keys to control compiz behaviour
<tseng> (which means most of it is instantly portable to ubuntu)
<tseng> probably
<Burgwork> garnoma, aiglx is the way forward. XGL simply has too many bugs
<garnoma> Burgwork: of course! actually i never said i didn't agree
<Burgwork> garnoma, the only things that don't work with aiglx are nvidia cards now
<Burgwork> ati has updated their drivers
<garnoma> Burgwork: didn't know that about ati, maybe they did it very recently.. now any hopes nvidia will soon do it too?
<Burgwork> no idea
<nictuku> after restoring the original fstab file, I ran "volumeid.postinst configure" again and it indeed preserved the swap file as expected. the changelog.Debian doesn't indicate any related fix in previous versions, though
<Burgwork> nicolaw, hmm, i think that was mispasted
<Burgwork> nictuku, rather
<nictuku> I'm not crazy :)
<Surak> Well, if db_get is not getting xorg's driver from hwdata, where does it get this information from?
<Surak> night all.
<stub> Launchpad is going down in 15 minutes. Estimated downtime is 3.5 hours. This is to perform a large amount of data migration to open Edgy translations up under Rosetta.
<desrt> stub; good luck!
<fdsd> hey guys, I am making livecds, I made one ppc live cd, everything went very smoothly and its all set, but now I am trying to make a x86 livecd from ubuntu-6.06.1-desktop-i386.iso and I am running into issues.   I am trying to modify the usplash boot up, I was able to do it perfectly following this howto on my ppc livecd: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/USplashCustomizationHowto  but for some reason with x86 ubuntu even installed on my 
<fdsd> machine I install my new usplash and it only boots to black now.  ANy ideas 
<fdsd> any idea?
<fdsd> any idea?
<bluefoxicy> lol drepper's right
<bluefoxicy> maximum common prefix length for libgtk:  32 characters
<bluefoxicy> maximum common prefix length for libgtkmm:  229 characters
<lupine_85> anyone awake at this ungoddessly hour? :)
<HrdwrBoB> it's 1610
<HrdwrBoB> :P
<lupine_85> for me it's 07:12 :)
<lupine_85> and I've not been to sleep yet
<lupine_85> just a short question, really - not (completely and exclusively) for ubuntu, so I'm relying on goodwill, if you've got a bit to spare (no code! promise)
<Kagou> hi
<Kagou> Kamion: around ?
<lupine_85> I've spent most of yesterday and all of last night helping people with wireless lan issues. So I was thinking about building a program that automatically detects and installs such drivers while taking all possible factors into account
<lupine_85> starting off with wlan drivers for ubuntu, obviously ;)
<lupine_85> couple of pages of mental dump at http://ubuntu.lupine.me.uk/initial-spec.odt
<Kagou> raphink: around ?
<bluefoxicy> ugh, evolution definitely has a leak.
<bluefoxicy> a bad leak.
<bluefoxicy> it can only run for a few hours
<Burgundavia> bluefoxicy: evo has a few leaks
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  yeah, I've been noticing
<bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  I was trying to be a pseudo-engineer and it was cranking my disk massively.
<bluefoxicy> http://sources.redhat.com/ml/binutils/2006-08/msg00234.html  :D
<Mithrandir> slomo__: s-d-p in edgy seems unhappy.
<Mithrandir> slomo__: "You need at least avahi 0.6.9" and I have 0.6.12 installed.
* Hobbsee tickles Mithrandir 
<Keybuk> not a 1 < 9 problem?
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: good morning, dudette
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: unsure.  Haven't looked at the code yet.
<Keybuk> "Do you know 'Haben Sie Gehort Das Deutsche Band' ?"
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: greetings
<simira> Keybuk: I believe it's "Haben Sie Das Deutsche Band gehort"?
<simira> ;)
* Hobbsee suspects that simira is right.
<Keybuk> simira: the name of the song is the former
<simira> the germans tend to put words in odd places
<simira> Keybuk: oh
<simira> my bad, then
<Keybuk> MIT A BANG!  MIT A BOOM!  MIT A BING-BANG BING_BANG BOOM!"
<Hobbsee> haha
* Hobbsee wonders at Keybuk's sanity
<Keybuk> I'm just happy that my hangover is gone
<Hobbsee> ah, fair enough.   you know, if you didnt drink so much, you wouldnt get a hangover :P
* Hobbsee ducks
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: what's there to wonder about it?  It's proven to be non-existent. :-)
<pitti> Hey Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hey pitti!
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: good point.
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: your new init-crack. when are we going to be able to break our machines with it?
* HiddenWolf 's ears perk up
<simira> Kamion: I believe most of the bugs are marked buplicate of bug 47046
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47046 in ubiquity "breaks if system partitions are not reformatted" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47046
<fabbione> morning guys
<Keybuk> Burgundavia: today maybe
<Burgundavia> oh shiny.
<Keybuk> got to shiny the config file sode and package it
<Keybuk> uh, code
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: exactly how will the machines break?  ie, not boot?
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: given it is a new init, who knows. I expect much fun and merriment
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: true that.
<seb128> pitti: ping
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: likely problems at first will be
<Keybuk> - only runlevel 2 available
<Keybuk> - no shutdown, reboot, poweroff, etc. commands
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: thanks for the info
<Burgundavia> night all
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: yay?
<Hobbsee> i guess that as long as we can actually boot the machine, that's cool
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: i suspect that you might single handedly stop users installing edgy, and expecting it to work.  thanks for that :)
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: nobody uses runlevels and computers shouldn't be powered off, so that's fine.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: except when they're laptops, and taken places :P
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: pft.  My laptop's not powered off when moved anywhere
<infinity> I just carry mine around the house.
<infinity> Though I'll admit to powering it off when I travel overseas.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: point.  i dont like the idea of it flying around my car though :P
<Hobbsee> s/ Mithrandir / infinity 
<Keybuk> whoo!  /dev/hd{
<ogra> pitti, output of "mount":
<ogra> ltspfs on /tmp/.ogra2-ltspfs/cdrom type fuse (rw,nosuid,nodev,user=ogra2)
<ogra> /tmp/.ogra2-ltspfs/cdrom on /media/ogra2/cdrom type none (rw,bind)
<pitti> ogra: ^ that matches /etc/mtab, I presume
<ogra> and cat /proc/mounts :
<ogra> ltspfs /tmp/.ogra2-ltspfs/cdrom fuse rw,nosuid,nodev,user_id=1002,group_id=1002 0 0
<ogra> ltspfs /media/ogra2/cdrom fuse rw,nosuid,nodev,user_id=1002,group_id=1002 0 0
<ogra> and yes, it matches
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: have you forgot to push you networkauth changes?
<pitti> ajmitch: speaking of push, can you please push your cdbs merge?
<Tonio_> morning everyone
<Hobbsee> infinity: dput does whine that you're uploading with an unsigned key, but doesnt actually prohibit you from doing so.  go figure.
<Kamion> simira: 47046 is one of the ones for which DebuggingUbiquity has instructions, so it's probably ok, but I'll check later
<simira> Kamion: np, just wanted to make sure
<lucas> who is taking care of NEW processing ? it seems that there are tons of packages in debian which aren't in ubuntu yet
<Hobbsee> lucas: possibly infinity?
<Hobbsee> or Keybuk?
<jdub> teh hackers are doing teh grubbing
<Kamion> that's not NEW processing, that's syncing
<Kamion> note that we are post-UVF
<Kamion> though not for universe, but it still means you need to request manually
<Hobbsee> ah right, i thought they did that too
<Hobbsee> hi Kamion, btw.  how are holidays?
<lucas> some of the packages I'm talking about where already in debian at UVF time, but weren't synced
<lucas> an example is clutter - http://packages.qa.debian.org/c/clutter.html
<lucas> (just picked randomly, I'm not interested in this package in particular)
<jdub> yay clutter
<Kamion> Hobbsee: they were great, but are no longer ;-)
<Hobbsee> Kamion: ahh...pity :P
<Kamion> lucas: yes, syncs of new packages were a bit haphazard this cycle (many were done, but not entirely automatically). please request manual syncs of ones you care about
<Hobbsee> Kamion: so people can whine at you to DO SOME WORK!  :D :P
<Kamion> I'm sure I've said this already ...
<Kamion> Hobbsee: well, that's kind of what Wiesbaden is for ;)
<Hobbsee> Kamion: of course :)
<Hobbsee> Kamion: like i could order you around, anyway
<lucas> Kamion: I'm a bit concerned about this policy ("manual syncs of ones you care about") : it means that if no ubuntu dev care for a package, people who care for it, but aren't ubuntu devs, are going to miss it in edgy ?
<infinity> lucas: We've been suffering some growing pains so, yes, manual requests will have to do for now.
<infinity> lucas: It's not ideal, but we don't have the time to resolve all these issues before release.
<Kamion> lucas: anyone else can always ask and we'll get somebody with permissions to authorise it
<Kamion> syncs are easy enough
<Kamion> we just don't want to do a mass pass over them at this point, plus what infinity said
<geser> infinity: can you please giveback gnome-media and gnome-mag to the builds?
<infinity> geser: Sure.
<geser> the build-depends are installable again
<gnomefreak> does the new apt in edgy have a translator? at the end of each repo i get something like translation_en_us
<gnomefreak> thats during apt-get update
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: well, rosetta now supports translations for universe as well as main now
<gnomefreak> ah ok
<gnomefreak> ty :)
<sfllaw> I've got a stupid question...  What's the WNPP equivalent for MOTUs?
<Gloubiboulga> sfllaw, we don't have a WNPP equivalent AFAIK, but a wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<Gloubiboulga> and REVU :)
<Hobbsee> there's a kubuntu page for that as well w.k.u/KubuntuSuggestedPackages
<Hobbsee> seems a bit superflous
<Riddell> it is, it needs merged with https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MOTU/Packages/Candidates/Kubuntu
<sfllaw> Gloubiboulga: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> ...indeed.
<simira> hm, googleearth claims that it's more than 1k pizza places in and near Wiesbaden. That must crave for a pizza tonight!
<azeem> I was in a nice Italian Restaurant in Wiesbaden 10 days ago
<azeem> but I forgot the name (and my parents paid :) )
<Mithrandir> pitti: any chance you could do https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportConsoleSetup for me?
<pitti> Mithrandir: please ask me again this afternoon
<jono> hey
<lucas> infinity: ruby is still broken on powerpc, causing a lot of packages to FTBFS
<mdke> the xorg bug is marked as fix released, but the version mentioned in the bug (_10.4) doesn't seem to be in my archive (i use archive.ubuntu.com). Has this fix arrived already, or is it still building?
<rodarvus> mdke, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/xorg-server/1:1.0.2-0ubuntu10.4
<lucas> infinity: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3917415/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-powerpc.librmagick-ruby_1.12.0-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<lucas> infinity: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3926633/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-powerpc.revolution_0.5-3ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<mdke> rodarvus: I'm i386. Is there a delay building building and getting into archive.u.c?
<rodarvus> mdke, yes, a little while, but shouldn't be long
<rodarvus> anyhow, if it is really urgent, you can download the package from http://people.ubuntu.com/~rodarvus/packages/dapper/xorg-server/
<mdke> no, not urgent, I'm just curious about how "fix released" is used on LP
<lucas> and ruby1.9 probably needs some attention too: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3921610/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-powerpc.ruby1.9_1.9.0%2B20060423-3.1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<rodarvus> (well, or from https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/238104, since it is already built for i386)
<mdke> i suppose in theory the best thing would be for LP itself to change the bug status as things get built/published
<mdke> rodarvus: nice work for fixing it so fast
<Keybuk> *yawn*
<pitti> hi ivoks 
<Keybuk> I knew I'd pay for having seconds
<thom> Keybuk: fatty.
<ivoks> pitti: hi
<Keybuk> thom: sadly so
* Keybuk wobbles
<elmo> ehm - I thought dapper bcm43xx was meant to work for powerbooks?
<Treenaks> elmo: maybe a little, as long as you have firmware to upload?
<elmo> ah, hmm
<elmo> good point ;-)
<Keybuk> the driver seems quite good once you get the firmware in there
<Treenaks> only 11mbit right?
<jelmer> ajmitch: Hi! how's NetworkAuthentication coming along?
<jelmer> Keybuk: Hi
<jelmer> Keybuk: Any chance #51304 can be fixed for edgy? It hasn't been touched in ages, and the patch is well tested. It's a requirement for bzr-svn, so it'd be nice if it could go into edgy.
<jelmer> The patch only touches already broken functionality and includes unit tests.
<mdke> bug 51304
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51304 in subversion "Improvements to Python bindings" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51304
<lucas> infinity / Kamion: I need to file a lot of removal requests, all for the same reason (removal of ruby 1.6 packages). Can I file a single bug with all the packages in it ?
<lucas> ("a lot of" = 20-25)
<infinity> lucas: Would probably best to do a single bug with the list, yeah, since they're all related.
<Kamion> lucas: yes
<lucas> ok
<Kamion> jelmer: that seems reasonable to me, although ideally it would go into Debian too so that we don't have to carry the patch until Subversion 1.5
<Kamion> of course you'll need to find a core developer to upload them
<infinity> jelmer: Assign the bug to me (adconrad in launchpad) and I'll look at it.
<infinity> jelmer: I'll get the patch into Debian as well.
<pitti> ajmitch: please go ahead with uploading the cdbs merge (and please bzr push it)
<jelmer> infinity: Thanks!
<BlackBrain> good morning
<Fujitsu> Morning, BlackBrain.
<BlackBrain> anyone have install fwbuilder 2.1 on ubuntu?
<jelmer> infinity: I've reassigned the bug to you. If there's anything else you need, please let me know.
<infinity> jelmer: I'll poke you after I've had a chance to look it over, if I have any questions.
<infinity> jelmer: If it's all straightforward enough, I'll push it into Debian and Ubuntu in time for both etch and edgy.
<Keybuk> *sigh* ... it didn't core dump, but it also didn't behave correctly either
<_ion> upstart?
<Keybuk> _ion: just the config parser
<wasabi_> Hmm. It would sure be nice to have a second initramfs made which dropped to a console and had various fsck utilities
<Mithrandir> wasabi_: you mean like evms-bootdebug?
<wasabi_> Maybe. Never heard of it.
<wasabi_> Hmm. Interesting. I guess thought, I mean, by default.
<wasabi_> (recovery mode) is made by default, but isn't useful if / is broke.
<wasabi_> a (pre-boot mode) or something, made by default, would be nice.
<bddebian> Morning folks
<Riddell> enrico: if I put "tags file:/usr/share/debtags/" in the default debtags sources.list that should pick up the included database no?  (it doesn't seem to be)
<Mez> who is it I speak to about getting a mailing list set uop
<simira> Mez: smurf, maybe?
<HiddenWolf> rodarvus: re xorg broken bug: people are wondering why you uploaded urgency=low. Might be good to reply to the bug and/or take note.
<HiddenWolf> bug 57153
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57153 in xorg-server "xorg-server 1:1.0.2-0ubuntu10.3 breaks X: "no screens found"" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57153
<fabbione> HiddenWolf: because in LP world makes no real difference
<HiddenWolf> fabbione: people think it does, so it does. :)
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: it makes no difference
<Kamion> people need to do something more useful. :-)
<dholbach> Kamion: absolutely - the list of duplicates is breathtaking already
<Hobbsee> Kamion: you know, if you removed all the people, you wouldnt have such a problem :P
<HiddenWolf> dholbach: I know it makes no difference technically, but it makes a difference in how people percieve it.
<Kamion> I've followed up to the bug
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: those few that had an opinion about the 'low' bit really can't say that nobody took the bug serious
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: and that's all that counts.
<dholbach> rodarvus does an absolutely ROCKing job. End of story. :-)
* dholbach hugs rodarvus
<Hobbsee> what amuses me is that if X broke, so that it was unusable, is how many dupes we got
<Hobbsee> surely not that many people know how to use lynx
<Hobbsee> unless htey used another machine, of course
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: live CD
<pygi> sivang, poke?
<fabbione> Hobbsee: no, but they know how to bitch
<HiddenWolf> dholbach: Oh, it's not critisism, I think the entire team rocks, but it's important to see how people percieve such things. 
<Treenaks> I wonder how many people will just give up Ubuntu after this
<fabbione> HiddenWolf: tell them to go $somewhere
<zul> Hobbsee: they dont know how to check for duplicates though
<HiddenWolf> fabbione: I'd rather keep em. :)
<fabbione> Treenaks: about the compiz stuff.... i am sorry but my powerbook died today
<fabbione> Treenaks: hw death
<Hobbsee> zul: indeed.  pity
<Treenaks> fabbione: np, the guy f*d up the packages today too
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: i've already heard of one.
<fabbione> and they mail me personally
<Hobbsee> fabbione: true that.  
<sivang> pitti: make sure malone #56484 doesn't go un-noticed. Would you say we need sjoerd for that one?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56484 in hal "hal does not detect media change in USB-DVD-Drive" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56484
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: the discussion doesn't really help... they obviously don't understand what's going on, so their judgement and perception is flawed in that respect.
<pitti> sivang: nice target for tomorrow's bug day :)
<sivang> pitti: hehe, okay then, noted :-)
<pitti> sivang: I'm in feature development mode ATM, but I'll do bug triaging tomorrow
<sivang> pitti: ah, right, forgot
<enrico> Riddell: no, it won't: it expects a vocabulary.gz
<sivang> pitti: the description is actually not reflective, this breaks the whole info.category = 'cdrom' attributes..
<HiddenWolf> dholbach: but they are users, normal people who tell their aunts and uncles to try this rocking thing, so it is important to respect that in public responses and issues. But this does not seem to be on-topic here.
<Riddell> enrico: ok, so I need to ship that too
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: i'm not sure a changelog or a message on edgy-changes@ is a 'public response'
<HiddenWolf> dholbach: This is quite a high-profile bug, which gets a lot of attention, which makes it public.
<HiddenWolf> dholbach: anyway, I'll cede the point
<seb128> fabbione, Treenaks: what about compiz?
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: I understand your point.
<fabbione> seb128: nothing to worry about.. i primised a ppc build for Treenaks of some snapshot.. but my ppc died..
<zul> heh...stupid ppc
* fabbione larts zul with a cluebat
<seb128> fabbione: ok, because it would be nice to have an update to edgy universe
<fabbione> seb128: that's what the subject...
<fabbione> seb128: go ahead.. i can't really test it here on the production server
<seb128> I would rather say "stupid fabbione", he probably did something to break the ppc :p
<fabbione> at least if i want to survive 20 people yelling at me for an internet connection
* seb128 runs
* fabbione goes to say a few words to seb128 
<enrico> Riddell: yes... another way is to fix the updater code to fallback on 'vocabulary' if 'vocabulary.gz' isn't available; however, I'm sorry I'm not touching that code again
<enrico> Riddell: I've never gotten my read around libapt-pkg's fetcher, and I feel that touching that code means one day of work to make it work again
<lfittl> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> lfittl: pong
<dholbach> Keybuk: does the TB have a mailing list or mail address?
<Keybuk> technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> Keybuk: gracias
<cr3> why aren't these sysconf names supported: _SC_2_C_VERSION, _SC_XOPEN_ENH_I18N, _SC_XOPEN_CRYPT, _SC_XOPEN_SHM, _SC_XOPEN_LEGACY. It seems that it should be supported since 5.10: http://www.sourcentral.org/man/ubuntu510/7+unistd.h
<azeem> cr3: manpages are not guaranteed to be uptodate
<Kamion> azeem: cr3 is claiming that the man page is ahead of the implementation, not behind it
<Kamion> although anyway those man pages are just copies of the current POSIX specification
<Kamion> cr3: all those names are in /usr/include/bits/confname.h on edgy
<cr3> Kamion: yeah, I noticed, but sysconf(name) returns -1 in all those cases
<cr3> Kamion: what's weird is that _SC_2_C_VERSION shouldn't be too hard to support :)
<mdke> Kamion: as with last week, I can't make the CC meeting, would you pass on in the meeting my fanboy support of the members that I mailed in last week?
<Kamion> cr3: I can't find the specification of that name
<Kamion> mdke: I've been on vacation and I'm not sure I'll be able to find that mail in the pile
<mdke> Kamion: it was the the cc list, if that helps with the filter
<Kamion> mdke: is it Message-ID: <44E05F45.40107@ubuntu.com>?
<Kamion> Subject: Today's meeting (member candidates) and wiki licensing
<mdke> yep
<Kamion> sure
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> sorry for absence, let's see more evening meetings! :)
<cr3> which package creates /lib/cpp? dpkg -S doesn't return anything so it's probably in a postinst script
<azeem> cr3: cpp
<Kamion> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 2006-07-10 12:41 /lib/cpp -> /etc/alternatives/cpp
<Kamion> follow the symlinks
<Kamion> oh, _SC_2_C_VERSION is the version of the standard
<Kamion> check glibc
<\sh> moins
<\sh> Guys, could it be, that we have a problem with edgies gcc? regarding https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/56965 it looks like...the same wine version compiled on dapper works
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56965 in wine "[Edgy]  Consistent segfault when starting wine" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<thom> \sh: SSP problem? 
<tseng> \sh: try with -fno-stack-protector
<pitti> \sh: ^ if this helps, please add it to the problems list on wiki.ubuntu.com/GccSsp
<\sh> tseng: trying
<\sh> pitti: I will :)
<\sh> for the next release, please remind me, to not touch wine ,)
<simira> so, anyone up for pizza tonight?
<Mez> simira, *hugs* long time no speak
<simira> Mez: since Montreal or something. How are you?
<Mez> simira, indeed since montreal :d I'm good
<slomo__> Mithrandir: known problem... will be fixed soon :)
<slomo__> infinity: please give-back gnome-sharp2 on ppc, thanks :)
* thom growls at firefox
<thom> #57316 is especially great when you need to use keygen several times a day for work
<^robertj> has proposed-updates ever been proposed? It apparently never made it as far as a spec.
<Kamion> thom: I'm sure Ian would be happy for you to start maintaining it again ;-)
<Kamion> ^robertj: you mean the existing and working dapper-proposed?
<thom> Kamion: hahaha
<^robertj> Kamion: yeah, something like that ;)
<^robertj> how long was that xorg package incubated in there?
<Mez> Kamion: is backports working yet ?>
<Kamion> Mez: no, sorry - it's one of the things we're going to talk about this week
<Kamion> ^robertj: dapper-proposed isn't mandatory, and wasn't used in this case
<Treenaks> seb128: fabio's ppc died, _and_ the guy who made the snapshot broke his snapshots
<Mez> Kamion: when i'm back i'm gonna be bugging ya :P
<seb128> Treenaks: how does it broke the snapshots?
<^robertj> Kamion: ok, thanks for the info
<seb128> Treenaks: ajmitch is supposed to work on an update
<Treenaks> seb128: he broke the packages when he split out the plugins
<Treenaks> seb128: oh, I pointed at some guy 'Quinn''s page (ubuntu.compiz.net)
<Kamion> Mez: honeestly, I doubt bugging me will help
<nixternal> hey, really quick, with x-chat, gaim or whatever is the defaults for an Ubuntu install...can someone change the default Freenode server settings to use Port 8001 so the DCC exploit can be prevented for everyone from the get-go?
<nixternal> thanks
<Treenaks> nixternal: dcc exploit?
<seb128> Treenaks: could you encourage that guy to become motu and work with ubuntu instead of packaging that somewhere else?
<nixternal> !exploit
<Treenaks> seb128: I've only just found the packages using google
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> Treenaks: <ubotu> There are people around who think it is funny to abuse a bug in certain routers by sending invalid DCC commands. If you are bitten by this, please upgrade your router firmware or connect to irc.freenode.net:8001 - see also http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2006-1068
<Treenaks> nixternal: fix the routers, imho
* ^robertj concurs
<nixternal> ya, not every newbie really knows how..this can be prevented on our side as well
<^robertj> nixternal: other problems can't be. If anything freenode ought to just test for that like people used to check for wingate sploits
<Keybuk> nixternal: this would break a lot of people's outbound firewall rules
<maswan> Heh. Apparently I should learn that fileutils is coreutils these days. ;)
<Mithrandir> maswan: "these days" being "for four years or so"? :-P
<nixternal> good point Keybuk, but if people are knowledgeable to setup firewall rules, then it wouldn't be difficult for them to fix it as well
<^robertj> could coreutils carry a pthon dep so pastbin can be included ;)
<_ion> keybuk: Btw, wouldn't it be easier just to use a parser generator to create the config file parsing code?
<^robertj> nixternal: Ubuntu has more than enough work creating a linux distro without trying be general technoligical super-heros
<^robertj> nixternal: if their router sucks it's their problem
<rodarvus> I think fileutils is coreutils since April 2000 (but I might be wrong here)
<nixternal> wow, ok then. thanks
<maswan> Mithrandir: Well, yeah, something like that. Last time I reported a bug it was fileutils. :)
<Keybuk> _ion: I considered that, and even tried it for the first run, but never managed to get it to work
<^robertj> that's like adding options to the gui for "use high-contrast mode only for top half of display" for people with burn't out backlights
<Mez> Kamion: well, not bugging... but - making sure I know whats going on
<Keybuk> Mez: if there is any change in the status, I'm sure you'll be informed
<Mez> Keybuk:cheers :D...
<Kamion> you'll notice, if nothing else :)
<maswan> rodarvus: Hmm.. I think GNU fileutils 4.0 was in existance in october 2000 and not too obsolete. :)
<Mez> Kamion: you mean the reduction of people asking me when it'll work again
<Mez> ?>
<Mez> Kamion/Keybuk - I'm sorry to be bitching ... it's just annoying when backports gets a mention on Linux Format for not working :P
<Kamion> Mez: I was assuming you might perhaps have dapper-backports in your own sources.list
<Mez> s/on/in/
<Kamion> Mez: in case it's not clear, the problem is that the backporting tools have never been ported to soyuz
<_ion> keybuk: Ok.
<Kamion> we need to figure out if that's something we can hack up ourselves in an hour or so, or if the soyuz team have resource to do it (which TBH I doubt at the moment), or if some other solution can be dreamed up
<Mez> Kamion: surely direct uploads can be done? meaning all (as a temp step) that'd have to be done is elmo's script hacked a lil ?
<Mez> +
<Mez> Kamion: on another subject, you still work on the text installer right ?
<Kamion> Mez: that's one of the options I expect we'll be considering
<Kamion> mez	yes
<Kamion> (excuse me, slow link)
<bddebian> seb128: You about?
<seb128> bddebian: what?
<Mez> Kamion: I was wondering of the possibilty of having the text installer to have the option of installing onto an encrypted partition (for laptops etc) like suse does
<bddebian> seb128: You work with pygobject?
<Kamion> Mez: already basically done in Debian - I just need to deal with main inclusion reports for partman-crypto and dependencies
<seb128> bddebian: better to ask your question
<Mez> Kamion: sweet :d
<bddebian> seb128: Is it inteded to provide codegen or is it to get it from pygtk?
<LarstiQ> bddebian: could you rephrase that? (Or am I just too ignorant about the subject?)
<bddebian> LarstiQ: dsextras.py in pyobjects tries to import codegen and I'm trying to understand where it tries to get it from
<bluefoxicy> sfllaw:  hi :)
<sfllaw> blu	Hello!
<bluefoxicy> active today I see :)
<sfllaw> bluefoxicy: A bit.
<bluefoxicy> sfllaw:  now you've got me doing a breakdown of textrels on launchpad
<seb128> bddebian: not sure of what your issue issue, do you have a bug to point?
<bddebian> seb128: Bug #57182
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57182 in pygobject "Problem importing codegen from desextras" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57182
<seb128> bddebian: that bug seems to have nothing to do with pygobject...
<bddebian> seb128: It does.  diacanvas2 gets dsextras from pyobject which tries to bring in codegen which fails
<bddebian> seb128: If I run setup.py from diacanvas2 manually, I get codegen from pytgtk fine
<seb128> bddebian: I'm pretty sure that's not a pygobject issue, let me have a look
<segfault> :)
<bddebian> seb128: I'm happy to play with it, I am just trying to understand where pyobject tries to get codegen from since it doesn't dep on python-gtk2-dev (Unless I missed that)
* bddebian thinks maybe he should just shut up
<seb128> bddebian: the package Build-Depends on gnome-python and pygtk....
<seb128> bddebian: and that's not pygobject trying to get codegen
<seb128>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/gtk-2.0/dsextras.py", line 340, in generate
<seb128>     from codegen import register_types, write_source, FileOutput
* simira leaves for dinner
<simira> Mithrandir: eating today?
<bddebian> seb128: Aye.  Isn't that coming from python2.4-pygobjects?
<bddebian> In Debian it comes from python-gtk2-dev
* bddebian doesn't see a build dep on gnome-python or pygtk
* bddebian does the summon crimsun dance
<pitti> Mithrandir: console-setup approved
<seb128> bddebian: Debian has no pygobject, that's why
<ProN00b> i wonder how ubuntu chooses the keyboard layout ? on windows its always correct but on ubuntu i have to tweak the setting most of the time
<Mithrandir> pitti: thanks.
<bddebian> seb128: I understand that.  Would you prefer I just not bother you about it?
<seb128> bddebian: I don't mind but I'm trying to get some other done before diner which is 10 min in fact
<bddebian> OK, sorry
<seb128> np
<seb128> just don't wait on me to reply to fix it ;)
<Kamion> ProN00b: that's a fairly open-ended question - Ubuntu asks you for the keyboard layout on install, and it depends what you choose
<bddebian> seb128: Well I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer :_(
<Kamion> and obviously this depends on what sort of keyboard you have
<ProN00b> oh, can't it autodetect (or "do what windows would do" ^^) somehow ?
<Kamion> (a) it tries (b) Windows tries and is equally wrong some of the time (c) MORE INFO :-)
<bddebian> seb128: OK, one last quick question.  diacanvas2 build-deps python-gtk2-dev.  Do we have a meta package for that or something?
<ProN00b> it definitely has to try harder ^^
<Kamion> ProN00b: damnit, why won't you give me actual information?
<seb128> bddebian: meta package for what?
<Kamion> we guess a default from your selected locale, and then let you tweak that selection
<Kamion> in the alternate CD installer, there's also an option to infer your keyboard layout by prompting you to press some keys
<Kamion> that isn't in the desktop CD installer yet for technical reasons, but hopefully we'll get that done eventualy
<Kamion> +l
<ProN00b> "alternate cd installer" ?
<Kamion> see the website
<Kamion> or the dapper release announcement
<bddebian> seb128: I don't know I guess I'm confused on python-gtk2-dev vs pygobjects
<Kamion> in order to debug your problem, I need to know your locale, what keyboard layout you get, and what keyboard layout you expect
<ProN00b> Kamion, it doesn't matter, the problem proably was me having an German keyboard and an US locale
<Kamion> ProN00b: it's not possible to magically detect that, I'm afraid
<ProN00b> yeah
<Kamion> if Windows is managing to (which honestly would surprise me greatly), then it's using AFAIK highly undocumented hardware internals
<Kamion> vanishingly few keyboards have any mechanism for reporting their layout, AFAIK
<ProN00b> nah, its prolly that i always install german windows, but would never get the stupid idea of installing a german linux
<Kamion> ah, in that case it will simply have preconfigured defaults
<ProN00b> but work on putting that autodetection by typing into the main install disk, that would be grand
<Kamion> yes, it's on the list, but in the meantime you can simply select the correct default easily enough I think
* Kamion -> dinner
<seb128> bbl
<ProN00b> uhm, another question, how long do bugs usually take to fix (once confirmed) ?
<welshbyte> how long is a piece of string? :)
<HiddenWolf> ProN00b: as long as it takes as soon as someone gets to it.
<ProN00b> welshbyte, double the length from one side to the middle
<pascal80> why does edgy have foomatic-db-gutenprint and ijsgutenprint installed by default?
<pascal80> these packages are a dependency of ubuntu-desktop
<Treenaks> pascal80: in case you decide to buy an HP printer ;)
<pascal80> Treenaks: but we have cupsys-driver-gutenprint which includes all CUPS only printer drivers
<pascal80> foomatic-db-gutenprint is only needed for other spoolers like lprng
<Treenaks> pascal80: apparently, IJS is different
<pascal80> since ubuntu uses CUPS why isntall foomatic-db-gutenprint and ijsgutenprint by default?
<Treenaks> pascal80: please file a bug if you feel it's a bug, the maintainer will explain it : )
<pascal80> they only waste diskspace and no-one ever uses them
<Treenaks> pascal80: (or poke pitti when he's around, afaik)
<pascal80> where would I find pitty
<Treenaks> pascal80: here.. but not now, and it's pitti not pitty
<bddebian> Yeah, you won't get any pity here ;-)
<pascal80> ok sorry pitti
<ProN00b> uhm, how do i get something into the official repos (multiverse universe, whatever) ?
<crimsun> ProN00b: ask in -motu, please.
<bluefoxicy> http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16800998005 <-- now if I could only get an Ubuntu one
<ProN00b> a money clip ?
<ProN00b> thats pretty redneck, isn't it ?
<poningru> ProN00b: ...
<ProN00b> lol, sorry
<ProN00b> o, wait, i said sorry in the wrong channel
<pascal80> what is ubuntu-proposed?
<Surak> pascal80: a repository for packages which are going to be in $RELEASE-updates. A kind of beta-test for an update.
<pascal80> is there a release update shedule?
<pascal80> Surak: I saw that OpenOffice 2.0.3 is in ubuntu-proposed for dapper
<Surak> Pascal80: did you hear about a failing X upgrade some days ago?
<pascal80> Surak: no
<Surak> pascal80: http://tieguy.org/blog/2006/08/22/still-learning-what-long-term-support-means/
<pygi> sivang, poke?
#ubuntu-devel 2006-08-23
<jdong> hey, did anyone else notice that xorg-server-core was broken in a recent update? ;)
* jdong ducks
<infinity> jdong: And then subsequently fixed?  Yes, I noticed.
<jdong> lol
<jdong> great job on the response time, btw
<infinity> jdong: I also noticed a lot of people upset because we didn't test on *their* hardware before we shipped the broken package.
<jdong> yeah, but I do think it brings out a "weakness" in our testing process for updates :-/
* infinity notes that if people want 100% hardware support, they're always welcome to buy their computers in identical pairs, and send one to us.
* jdong notes maybe we should have an updates screening team?
<jdong> lol
<crimsun> and purchase a contract from Canonical.
* jdong would gladly accept testing machines :)
<jdong> like a mac pro or two
<infinity> jdong: We do have -proposed pockets, but tend to only use it for stuff we think will be massively disruptive.
<infinity> jdong: Rodrigo didn't realise this patch would blow up the world, so it went straight in.  Mistakes happen.
<infinity> (Note that it works for a large number of people)
<jdong> perfectly understandable; I'm not blaming anyone or bitching here
* jdong actually was not affected
<jdong> on all 4 of my systems
* jdong just had to put up with a day's worth of this on the forums :)
<infinity> Yeah, I've been suffering through it on ubuntu-users.
<Burgwork> infinity, you still read that?
<infinity> Specifically, trying to understand why no one can READ before they post.
<LaserJock> at least we can fix our mistakes
<jdong> infinity: yeah, really :-/
<infinity> "Here's the fix, have fun" followed by 12-24 more hours of "OH GOD, IT'S BROKEN!"
<jdong> we're using a front-page announcement and still people are posting new threads about it
<infinity> Burgwork: I do, yes.  I realise this is probably not rational.
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AcceptanceRepositoryProposal was raised, which I think simply duplicates -proposed.
<mjg59> -proposed makes sense
<mjg59> And it's a model that Debian follows
<Burgwork> infinity, dude, my sanity was threatened by that mailing list about 4 months ago, so I gave up
<mjg59> We just need to ensure that enough people are actually using it
<mjg59> And understand that things may break occasionally
<jdong> yeah, it's more about the people testing it than the channel being used
<jdong> there needs to be a clear form of communication
<jdong> maybe something on launchpad
<jdong> a testing interface
<jdong> where people can vote for proposed updates
<mjg59> This was clearly a screwup, but it's the sort of screwup that happens to every OS vendor occasionally
<jdong> mjg59: don't take it too harshly. Just a mistake, we'll get over it :)
<Burgwork> mjg59, MS just got caught by its pants down over yet another security update
<mjg59> NT4 SP 5 broke PS/2 input on a moderate number of machines
<mjg59> Which was a bit of a fucker, given that it didn't support USB
<jdong> every vendor's been susceptible to it
<infinity> I don't mind pushing for higher use of -proposed, but from my Debian experience, I know that we won't get much testing from it anyway.
<mjg59> infinity: Yeah, but at least in that case we've tried
<infinity> I've had updates in Debian's -proposed-updates for months that never got a single bug reported against them until they moved into a point-release.
<jdong> infinity: yeah, which is why you need a TEAM of testers
<jdong> :)
<jdong> not just a repository with test packages
<infinity> Perhaps our rabid, crack-loving users would be more likely to use -proposed than Debian's users.
<crimsun> jdong: which in way can possibly ensure coverage for all the bug reports that will come in.
* jdong would happily add bleeding edge repos :)
<crimsun> in no way, even
<infinity> But, that said, we'll still have the SAME flamefests, as people are using -proposed when they don't have the requisite skills to fix their systems.
<profoX`> infinity: that might be because alot of users don't know about it.. i would use it if I knew it before
<jdong> infinity: it'd be better than the flamefests of completely clueless users getting hit by this bug
<jdong> :-/
<crimsun> The only way it would get greater use is if it's enabled by default. Which is the same end effect as what you just experienced.
<profoX`> jdong: completely agree, this X bork caught alot of users completely off guard
<infinity> jdong: See above.  We have lots of completely clueless users who don't think they are, until they get bitten by anything they can't immediately solve with a cut and paste from a forum.
<jdong> well, if they were using a testing repo they asked for it....
<infinity> jdong: And the ricers will all use -proposed, if they know about it, because bigger version numbers are better, or some such.
<jdong> lol
<profoX`> infinity: well, the proposed repository should NOT be enabled by default
<infinity> profoX`: No, and it never owuld be.
<jdong> definitely -proposed should not be default
<Burgwork> the reality is, things are going to break
<profoX`> if the users choose to use -proposed, it's their own fault..
<Burgwork> it would be better to work on the X failover stuff
<profoX`> (if they can't fix their system)
<infinity> profoX`: But have you seen the number of people who ask "Can someone give be a good sources.list for dapper?!! ZOMG!" and then will blindly copy and paste whatever anyone else gives them? :)
<HrdwrBoB> infinity: indeed, I have a massive botnet already!
<HrdwrBoB> er.. nothing.
<infinity> Burgwork: X failover probably wouldn't have helped in this case anyway.
<Burgwork> infinity, no, because it was X itself that failed
<profoX`> infinity: yes I'm aware of that. But that's not our fault. That are human errors :)
* jdong gonna do some more college packing now
<jdong> take it easy, everyone
<mjg59> infinity: I think it's acceptable to piss off the crack addicts if it helps us avoid pissing off, say, Luis
<tseng> luis's blog was rough
<shawarma> tseng: link?
<mjg59> I think Luis's blog was fair
<tseng> it was fair, but it hit me hard coming from him
<mjg59> It's not acceptable for us to break shit in a long-term stable distribution
<tseng> shawarma: http://tieguy.org/blog/2006/08/22/still-learning-what-long-term-support-means/
<tseng> shawarma: its not that rough in and of itself
<tseng> sigh david nielsen in the comments
<LaserJock> if we could put stuff in edgy first it would help but most of the time that won't work
<profoX`> There is a cycle called "DTAP (Development, Testing, Acceptance, Production)" which means we have to develop (few people), then test (more people), then when it should be good - it should be put in an acceptance phase (meaning: this software is supposed to be stable, but we are going to test it on a big scale now [which is especially handy to check many hardware platforms on a small timescale] ) and if it passes that without problems, i
<profoX`> t's ready to be released for everyone
<LaserJock> at least with the big things like X ,  kernel, etc.
<LaserJock> yeah, the problem is getting enough people to test something that may break their system
<tseng> profoX`: that would be a pretty ass way to handle a zero day vulnerability
<profoX`> anyway, the first step in solving a problem is to find the mistake.. how did the borked X come through?
<tseng> if you weren't under an embargo
<profoX`> tseng: for vulnerabilities you have to follow other guidelines of course.
<profoX`> I think critical security updates should keep the current testing procedures, and get released in the main repositories immediately.
<crimsun> that presupposes sane upstream. Ever tried backporting FF security fixes from 1.5 to 1.0x?
<tseng> firefox is special
<profoX`> crimsun: well I suppose exceptions could be made?
<crimsun> the problem is getting -proposed to be used more (if -proposed's visibility & role are elevated)
<profoX`> what I'm most interested in is how this X update got through. Did it apply to everyone? Did it get tested by the maintainers before it got released in the repositories and pass the test? was it an upstream bug?
<infinity> profoX`: THe problem did not apply to everyone, it worked fine on the systems it was tested on, the patch (and bug) came from upstream.
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I pretty much didn't know -proposed existed until this
<infinity> profoX`: Wider testing would have caught the issue, obviously, but it's always a question of "how wide is wide enough".
<LaserJock> yeah
<profoX`> infinity: wider testing as in extending the use of -proposed to include small fixes, and to make the -proposed repository known to experienced users? (I think everyone for him/herself should decide whether he/she thinks she can handle it or not, and if in doubt, just leave it without the -proposed repo)
<infinity> profoX`: Using -proposed more is likely a good idea.  Undecided on whether we should mandate it -- as we do in Debian.
<infinity> Of course, we need to fix some things in soyuz to use it the same way Debian does.
<infinity> (Right now, we can't move packages from -proposed to -updates without a fressh upload and rebuild to -updates, which is silly)
<profoX`> (yes, that's silly, but that can be fixed)
<infinity> It can be, but not immediately.
<LaserJock> is -proposed supposed to be used only for -updates? or for general use, including edgy?
<infinity> We don't have infinite man-hours, and the Soyuz development team is overloaded.
<infinity> LaserJock: Err, come again?  Note the implied ${DIST} there. :)  As in ${DIST}-proposed
<infinity> LaserJock: dapper-proposed would be used for dapper-updates.
<LaserJock> do we have an edgy-proposed, I guess is my question?
<infinity> LaserJock: edgy-proposed, for edgy-updates.  No point in using edgy0proposed for anything BEFORE we release edgy, that's just extra overhead with no benefit.
<LaserJock> k, got ya
<infinity> LaserJock: Given that anyone useing edgy should expect it to be far less stable than dapper+updates+proposed, I wouldn't see the point.
<LaserJock> heh, well hopefully that is the case
<infinity> (Though this doesn't stop people from screaming on lists, blogs and bugs when edgy breaks, much as people did for this dapper breakage)
<profoX`> yes but thats not our problem.. it is known that edgy shouldn't be used in stable environments and that it can cause breakage
<Burgundavia> infinity: we made OSnews!
<profoX`> for dapper, thats a different story
<jsgotangco> wohooo
<profoX`> lol
<profoX`> what are the plans now with -proposed ? who is going to decide what is going to happen with it ?
<infinity> Burgundavia: The story's fair, though I question their choice of posts to link to.
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> infinity: I got trolled by eugenia at LWE. Did you see the pictures they posted?
<tseng> this is the same site that thinks "Linux Heavies Plan.." is a good headline
<tseng> (and reviews of BlueSkyCandyLandOS)
<infinity> Burgundavia: No..
<tseng> Burgundavia: jorge mentioned them but i failed to find them
<Burgundavia> just a sec
<Burgundavia> http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=15518
<Burgundavia> I am picture 3 and 4
<Burgundavia> make that 2 and 3
<Burgundavia> read the quote under 2
<Burgundavia> and those are truly awful pictures of me
<tseng> tasteful quoting
<Burgundavia> very
<Burgundavia> I guess I learned a lesson about saying things publicly
<tseng> the pictures arent horrible
<tseng> "lock-down" is not an adjective in my vocabulary"
<Burgundavia> tseng: her words, not mine
<tseng> I'm aware.
<Burgundavia> hence why we are shipping our lead developer to the boston summit
<Burgundavia> we plan on making lockdown a word in every developers vocabulary
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<Kaleo> hiya
<bddebian> Hello Kaleo
<HrdwrBoB> I'm sure this affects close to 0 people
<HrdwrBoB> but I'd like it if the liveCD had more loop devices
<lnxkde> hi
<lnxkde> someone can help me with a costumization a the LIvecd?
<lnxkde> I have made 3 live cds following this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization/6.06 
<lnxkde> and they work nicely for livecds, but when I want to install the installer crash almost when finishing the instalation
<lnxkde> someone can help me make anice live cd with added packages and nice IDEs and things I can use in the collage?
<LaserJock> lnxkde: I'd ask some other projects who are making custom Desktop CDs
<lnxkde> like?
<LaserJock> hmm, good question
<lnxkde> :D
<LaserJock> the only one I know of right off hand is Ichthux
<LaserJock> but I'd just google it
<lnxkde> LarstiQ,  u christian?
<lnxkde> LaserJock : u chritian
<LaserJock> lnxkde: yeah
<Hobbsee> does someone feel like rebuilding evolution-webcal?
<Hobbsee> ie, someone who can upload it>
<lnxkde> LaserJock : me too :D 
<infinity> Hobbsee: Just needs a rebuild upload?  What for?
<Hobbsee> infinity: to change the shlibs depends from libecal1.2-3 to libecal1.2-7
<Hobbsee> infinity: which will then make u-d installable again
<lnxkde> LaserJock : well please add me to your jabber or msn acount
<infinity> Hobbsee: Spiff.  Can do.
<Hobbsee> infinity: cool :)
<lnxkde> LaserJock : lnxkde@kdetalk.net  or poimen7@hotmail.com
<Hobbsee> hey what?  it failed to build!
<Hobbsee> no, wait, it looks like it's my system.  dont worry
* Hobbsee should stop using pdebuild
<LaserJock> heh, that sure is a vote of confidence
<infinity> Hobbsee: Oh, looks like seb already uploaded it, but it was FTBFS...
* infinity looks.
<Hobbsee> infinity: er.  the last changelog entry is supposed to have fixed that.
<Hobbsee> er, yeah
* Hobbsee pokes her brain into working a bit
<Hobbsee> which explains why i dont have the latest version
* infinity retries the builds for kicks, before turning his brain on to fix it.
<Hobbsee> haha
<infinity> Too sick today to take the hard way out unless I have to. :)
<Hobbsee> infinity: not more people sick :(
<infinity> Something vicious is going around.  I was up all night coughing, haven't slept a wink in over a day. :/
<Hobbsee> infinity: yeah, still failing to build
<Hobbsee> ouchy
<Hobbsee> infinity: http://rafb.net/paste/results/j41qcI33.html is the error here.  probably the same on the buildds
<infinity> Hobbsee: Sadly, yes.  Guess that means a retry won't fix it.
<Hobbsee> indeed
<infinity> Those symbols names look suspiciously mozilla-ish.
<infinity> Perhaps libedataserver is meant to be linked with libnspr and isn't.
<infinity> Oh, or perhaps libedataserver-dev is lacking a dependency on libnspr-dev
<infinity> That would make my life easier.
* infinity looks.
<infinity> No, it has one.  Feh.
* infinity statrs doing this the hard way.
<Hobbsee> hehe.  sorry for giving you more work there, infinity 
<infinity> That's alright, it IS my job.
<Hobbsee> true that.  being sick does suck though :P
<infinity> And how.
<infinity>         libnspr4.so => /usr/lib/libnspr4.so (0xb7c52000)
<infinity> Grr, not found, my ass.
<infinity> Err, and it builds in my chroot.
* infinity cries.
<infinity> Hobbsee: Okay, sorted on all arches except powerpc, which I'm working on.
<Hobbsee> infinity: cool :)
<Hobbsee> infinity: that means i could possibly install ubuntu-desktop, then :P
<infinity> Hobbsee: In another hour or so, yeah.
<Hobbsee> well, yeah
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: woah, scary
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed.
<LaserJock> I installed kubuntu-desktop on 2 of my machines so it must be contagious
<sivang> morning
<Hobbsee> hey sivang!
<Kagou> mjg59: around ?
<Keybuk> heh, damn that automatic "laptop on" reaction
<pitti> Good morning
<Hobbsee> hey pitti 
<Hobbsee> hey ogra 
<ogra> morning ....
<sivang> morning distro sprinters
<BenC> morning
<pitti> hey sivang
<pitti> Hobbsee: Hi Sarah
<Nafallo> sivang: good morning (but I'm not a sprinter ;-))
<Nafallo> *sigh* it's raining, I've to leave for work soon :-(
<Hobbsee> ...
<Hobbsee> pitti: another person using my real name.  how scary.
<Nafallo> hehe.
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: you don't like your name? :-)
<pitti> Hobbsee: sorry, it's not really a secret ...
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: oh i do, i'm just not used to it being used
<Hobbsee> pitti: it's okay.  i even changed it on LP finally :)
<Hobbsee> pitti: it's more that i'm not used to it, rather than having a problem withit
<sivang> hey pitti , Nafallo , Sarah ;-)
<simira> *grumbles*
* Nafallo hugs simira and says good morning to her to :-
<Nafallo> s/to/aswell/
<Nafallo> morning * :-)
<Hobbsee> hey sivang 
<Hobbsee> hey simira 
<Mithrandir> 'morning dudes and dudettes
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: hi there :-D
<sivang> Mithrandir: hey there
* Nafallo should make breakfast
<simira> Mithrandir: feeling low today?
<Mithrandir> simira: no, but my body breaks if I can't sit with my laptop in my lap.
<Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir 
<infinity> dholbach: *poke*
<dholbach> infinity: pong
<infinity> dholbach: Stickynotes so does *not* transparenty upgrade to Tomboy, despite the gnome-applets changelog claiming otherwise.
<simira> Mithrandir: of course...
<dholbach> infinity: upstream is discussing it as well
<infinity> dholbach: All my stick notes are now inaccessible, since the applet's gone, and TOmboy know nothing about them.
<dholbach> urg, it should import them
<infinity> dholbach: Didn't appear to do any such thing.
<infinity> dholbach: Is there a command I can run manually to make it do so?
<dholbach> lemme have a quick look
<infinity> dholbach: Also, is it known that gnome-terminal's (vte's?) URL-parsing has smoked a giant bowl of crack in the last little while and no longer seems sane?
<dholbach> infinity: make a new note and click the "do something" button
<dholbach> infinity: it has "import from sticky notes"!
<dholbach> s/\!//
<infinity> dholbach: Ahh, hrm.  Kay.  it claims it imported 4.  No idea where. :)
<infinity> dholbach: I'll play with it.
<infinity> Oh, I see, they just don't display by default.
<dholbach> infinity: i'll wait for a final verdict on the gnome mailing list and if that doesn't work, just revert that bit again
<infinity> dholbach: There's no way to make this thing display smallish notes like stickynotes, is there? :/
<dholbach> infinity: for the vte/whatever breakage i'll have a look too, although i didn't update them in a ahile
<infinity> dholbach: I'll file a bug about the vte thing if it doesn't resolve itself and I can get good screenshots/descriptions for you.
<infinity> Woohoo, mono crashed when I tried to set my Tomboy preferences!
<infinity> I LOVE TOMBOY SO MUCH.
* infinity isn't bitter, though.
<lifeless> no yet
<lifeless> you will be 
<infinity> Yeah, that was sarcasm.  I'm bitter.
<infinity> Giant windows with huge buttons and embedded wikis do not make a good replacement for compact little sticky notes that don't show up in the task bar and I can keep on my desktop at all times.
<infinity> I guess I'll just have to find a new way to stay (dis)organised.
<lifeless> whats happening to sticky notes ?
<infinity> It went away in the latest gnome-applets.
<infinity> With a claim that we should all migrate to Tomboy.
<infinity> And now I'm a sad panda.
<Mithrandir> infinity: Somebody(tm) could just resurrect it in a new package, I guess.
<infinity> Mithrandir: I may have to, if dholbach doesn't love me enough to bring it back. :)
* HiddenWolf chuckles
<dholbach> infinity: man... I told you! I'll wait for the gnome guys and see what they decide and if not, I'll bring it back on my own :)
<pitti> sivang: ok, so what was the bug # of your hal issue?
<pitti> ajmitch: ping?
<sivang> pitti: yay, malone #56484
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56484 in hal "hal does not detect media change in USB-DVD-Drive" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56484
<sivang> pitti: although the title might be misleading.
<sivang> pitti: hal doesn't seem to produce anymore the proper info.category entries for CDROMs for example 
<pitti> sivang: ok, this might point to the bug
<sivang> pitti: or actually failes to return proper results for that category
<pitti> sivang: anyway, ogra has an USB DVD drive here and that one seems to do fine
<sivang> pitti: that's interesting. I for one can't see my dvd burner anymore in hal-device-manager
<sivang> pitti: which is under scsi
<sivang> (/dev/scd0)
<pitti> sivang: ok, the attached hal logs to that bug have the same problem
<sivang> ogra: can you try a test with a piece of code of mine?
<sivang> pitti: okay, cool, so you have everything you need to try and fix it?
<pitti> sivang: well, I can just poke in logs for now; I asked ogra to send a working lshal for comparison
<pitti> ogra: can you please attach the log to bug 56484 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56484 in hal "hal does not detect media change in USB-DVD-Drive" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56484
<sivang> pitti: I have a piece of code that can be used as a test case
<sivang> pitti: basically, hubackup's device detector
<pitti> sivang: cool, please attach it to the bug
<sivang> pitti: will do
<ogra> pitti, done ...
<sivang> pitti: done
<rodarvus> infinity, evolution-webcal is breaking livecd daily build from finishing. I've just talked with seb128 and he told me all thats necessary is a rebuild on the buildds - could you please evolution-webcal for me?
<rodarvus> "could you please re-schedule evolution-webcal for me", I mean :)
<Hobbsee> rodarvus: rebuild got done, it's installable now
<rodarvus> that was fast :D
<rodarvus> (just kidding)
<Hobbsee> rodarvus: :)  i bugged him about it earlier, when i was considering installing u-d
<rodarvus> Hobbsee, thanks!
<Hobbsee> rodarvus: :)
<pitti> sivang: ok, can reproduce it here
<sivang> pitti: yay
<pitti> sivang: your script isn't that useful, it stops with an ImportError :(
<sivang> pitti: ah, well, you'd better just install hubackup to satisfy the dependencies, or let me know what the import error is about?
* pitti looks for his cdcaps.py
<pygi> sivang, :)
<sivang> hi pygi 
<janimo> iwj: hi, the latest firefox seems to not link to libnss3, so it does not show https pages
<janimo> glatzor: hi
<sivang> hi glatzor 
<janimo> hi sivang
* sivang hugs janimo 
* janimo hugs sivan back
<glatzor> hi janimo and hi sivang
<dholbach> heya janimo
<janimo> hi dholbach
<glatzor> dholbach: hi, are you in wiesbaden too?
<dholbach> glatzor: yes :)
<sivang> glatzor: I wanted to ask you, do you know how to customize a GtkFileChooser ?
<glatzor> sivang: what do you want to know in detail?
<sivang> glatzor: I was thining maybe the "maual" created selector in the main window of the new hubackup gui could be dropped, and instead we could have a GtkFileChooser that will always defalt to a CDRW/DVDRW whatever, thus leaving all device detection and other related stuff abstracted by the file chooser
<sivang> glatzor: in the main window, there's a selector that let's you choose either a file, or cdrom to backup to
<sivang> glatzor: (at least planned)
<Riddell> enrico: I need more debtags help.  my sources.list file has nothing but this in it "tags file:/usr/share/debtags/"
<Kagou> hi, i don't remember what we have to do when the usplash screen test is not well scaled in edgy. Can someone remember me ?
<Riddell> enrico: and /usr/share/debtags has tags-current.gz  vocabulary.gz from "http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/tags/" but I get "debtags: ConsistencyCheckException: Unable to use any data source (not even previously cached ones)"
<glatzor> sivang: the filechooser doesn't support burning cdroms.
<sivang> glatzor: I don't understand :)
<pygi_> sivang, it doesnt show you burner devices
<glatzor> sivang: choosing a folder/file is different from burning to a cdrom. 
<glatzor> sivang: if you need s starting point for hal integration in python you could take a look at the hal device manager
<sivang> pygi_ , glatzor : if we could customize it it could say "XXX Burner" instead of plain "CDROM 1"
<sivang> glatzor: I already have hal integratoin , I was just thinking of dropping it since it's changes so often and tends to be fragile :-)
<enrico> Riddell: hi.  Can you send me a strace of the debtags update run?
<pygi_> sivang, use libburn's scan bus :)
<glatzor> sivang: use info.product for the display name
<janimo> glatzor: did you have time to look into the remaining gtktreeview issue in g-a-i as an alternate to the last gnome dep?
<Riddell> enrico: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/DEBTAGS-STRACE
<sivang> glatzor: already doing it :-)
<sivang> glatzor: anyway, I'm already working to make the data from the TreeView's fit into the selector in your glade file
<sivang> glatzor: however, need to go now, talk later
<glatzor> janimo: sorry. not yet.
<glatzor> sivang: bye
<janimo> glatzor: np, was just curious, as michael said he'd agree to merge it if it can be solved cleanly
<glatzor> janimo: we need to talk to a Canonical marketing guy. using plain text for the licence would be the easiest solution
<janimo> glatzor: I agree. Should I try contacting them? (after looking at g-a-i to see what it is about actually)
<glatzor> feel free to do so. I wanted to talk to malcom some time ago, but haven't found him on irc
<enrico> Riddell: looking...  it doesn't even try to read them  :(
<enrico> Riddell: where can I find the version (and source package) of libapt-front that you're using?
<Riddell> enrico: 0.3.9ubuntu2 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/liba/libapt-front/
<enrico> Riddell: uhm,     if (uri.find("file://") == 0)
<enrico> try using file:///usr/share/debtags
<G0SUB> pitti: ping
<pitti> G0SUB: pong
<enrico> Riddell: did it work?
<Riddell> enrico: yay!
<enrico> Riddell: 
<rodarvus> you gotta love unicode :)
<pitti> sivang: ok, it's a pretty ancient bug, I added some information to it
<Riddell> enrico: I've uploaded debtags with vocabulary.gz and the file:/// URL.  I've also filed a bug on soyuz to include debtags in the Packages.gz https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/57418
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57418 in soyuz "Support debtags in Packages.gz" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
<Riddell> enrico: thanks for your help
<enrico> Riddell: thank you for your work on Debtags on Ubuntu
<jono> hey ho
<irvin> hello jono 
<jono> hi irvin
<iwj> janimo: firefox/nss3> I had a similar problem but I solved it with a reinstall (there were other crazy things wrong too).  Is it just you and me ?
<TMM> hey
<TMM> I have a question, how do I use the -dbg packages with gdb? I especially want to use gdb on evoltion and evolution-data-server. I know how to load debug symbols for one binary :) but not for the whole directory structure 
<pitti> TMM: you don't usually need to
<pitti> TMM: just install -dbg and gdb will pick them up automagically
<seb128> TMM: it works automagically
<TMM> so far, I have seen a lot of unresolved symbols in the backtraces 
<TMM> but, that might be because of evolution-data-server being started automatically 
<seb128> you don't have enough -dbg installed then ;)
<pitti> TMM: you might need further packages, like glibs' and gtk's -dbg
<seb128> can you put the backtrace on pastebin ?
<TMM> I think I've got one up on the bugzilla, let me check
<TMM> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=351528
<Mithrandir> seb128: gaim-irc with socks5 + ssh -D makes me a sad panda.  gaim stops responding and ssh kills the connection.
<Ubugtu> Gnome bug 351528 in Miscellaneous "crash on Evolution" [Critical,Needinfo]  
<Mithrandir> seb128: is this known?
<seb128> Mithrandir: not by me
<seb128> Mithrandir: is there anybody really using gaim for IRC?
<TMM> I've got a pretty damn huge groupwise calendar, so, I decided I should spend some time on it
<Mithrandir> seb128: I was just going to try it, yes.
<Mithrandir> seb128: if you do ssh -D 1234 some.host, then add an IRC connection and tell it to use socks5 on localhost:1234 ssh gives me an error (buffer_get_ret: trying to get more bytes 2 than in buffer 1) and exits.  Gaim stops repainting its UI, but responds to C-q
<seb128> TMM: you need evolution-data-server-dbg and libglib2.0-0-dbg for that one
<TMM> I had both installed at that time
<Mithrandir> as well as 100% cpu usage.
<seb128> TMM: really weird
<seb128> TMM: can you try to get the bt with gdb instead of bug-buddy?
<seb128> Mithrandir: file a bug please
<TMM> seb128: I was actually working on that
<TMM> I just attached to evolution-data-server and that seems to load the debug info just fine
<seb128> cool
<TMM> well the whole shebang should be monitored by gdb now
<TMM> how nice... :(
<TMM> now evo freezes :)
<Mithrandir> seb128: thanks, bug 57430.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57430 in gaim "gaim unhappy when Socks5 server goes away" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57430
<seb128> np
<seb128> thank you for the bug ;)
<TMM> owww.... now gnome-panel freezes
<TMM> I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong
<pitti> sivang: FYI, I have the USB DVD working locally here
<TMM> ***MEMORY-ERROR***: evolution-data-server[15271] : GSlice: assertion failed: sinfo->n_allocated > 0
<TMM> hum
<TMM> then the calendering component crashes, but, no way to get any useful information... what do I do now? step through evolution-data-server? :)
<TMM> evolution-data-server just exits then
<seb128> TMM: what version of Ubuntu do you use?
<seb128> TMM: that assertion looks like http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347987
<Ubugtu> Gnome bug 347987 in Calendar "EDS exits frequently" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]  
<TMM> seb128: edgy
<TMM> seb128: but, it does this in dapper as well, that is why I went to edgy, to try and debug/fix this.
<seb128> TMM: ok, so getting a debug backtrace on your upstream bug would probably a good step for that
<seb128> TMM: thank you for working on that!
<TMM> yeah, that needs to be done as well
<TMM> but, that bug is hard to reproduce
* pygi wonders if we'll have python2.5 in any way in edgy?
<StevenK>  python2.5 | 2.5~c1-0ubuntu2 |          edgy | source, amd64, i386
<pitti> pygi: we already have it in universe
<pitti> no, even main
<StevenK> That's madison-lite, not apt-cache madison
<StevenK> But yes, main.
<pygi> pitti, o, great, because bindings for libburn/libisofs will be python2.5 :)
<pygi> thanks StevenK 
* StevenK hasn't even looked at python2.5
<pygi> pitti, pm just for a sec :)
<\sh> moins
<\sh> ok, wine does run with -fno-stack-protector
<jdub> Keybuk: ping
<Keybuk> jdub: hey
<jdub> Setting up udev (093-0ubuntu12) ...
<jdub> mknod: `/lib/udev/devices/net/tun': No such file or directory
<jdub> 
<jdub> known?
<Keybuk> new
<Keybuk> please file
<jdub> ok
<seb128> jdub: dup of #57436
<seb128> bug #57436
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57436 in udev "[Edgy]  Configuration error in latest udev update (093-0ubuntu12)." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57436
<jdub> seb128: ah thanks, i'll confirm it
<seb128> np ;)
<seaLne> how does dpkg -S decide which package a file is in?  it says a file was provided by a package but i can't find the file in the package
<geser> I assume it searches through all /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list
<seaLne> could the .list lie about the file?
<infinity> seaLne: Only if you delete some.
<infinity> seaLne: Or if you're looking at a diverted file, but dpkg -S tells you about diverts.
<infinity> seaLne: What do you mean by "can't find the file in the package"?
<seaLne> kdm thinks it installs /etc/kde3/kdm/backgroundrc but i can't see it anywhere in the kdebase source
<infinity> Not sure why you'd expect to see it in the source.
<seaLne> well if its not in the source package how does it end up in the binary one?
<infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ dpkg-deb -c kdm_3.5.4-0ubuntu9_i386.deb | grep backgroundrc
<infinity> -rw-r--r-- root/root       367 2006-08-22 21:26 ./etc/kde3/kdm/backgroundrc
<infinity> It's definitely in the binary package.
<infinity> I assume it's generated at build time in the source package.  *shrug*
<seaLne> ah, possibly
<seaLne> thanks
<sivang> re
<sivang> pitti: so we are going to wait for upstream to fix it, yes?
<sivang> pitti: (I've followed all the bug trails)
<sivang> pitti: oh! nice, now the descriptions fits :-) "..hal does not detect non-ATAPI CD-ROM drives"
<pitti> sivang: no, I have a fix here, I'll upload it shortly
<sivang> pitti: Have you like taught hal not to ignore the event ?
<pitti> sivang: yes
<sivang> pitti: cool
<pygi> sivang, congrats :)
<pygi> sivang, python2.5 good for you for python bindings? :)
<sivang> pygi: python bindings for what ?
<pygi> sivang, libburn ofcourse :)
<shackan> cool
<sivang> pygi: well, it would be good, when libburn will be able to do multi sessions stuff as well as regular burns. 
<sivang> pygi: in in concert detect amount of free space left on a multi session media
<pitti> sivang: uploaded
<sivang> pitti: yay! thank you
* sivang hugs pitti 
<sivang> pygi: do you have those bindings somewhere? have they been tested ?
<infernux> is it "save" to upgrade to edgy atm? (meaning, is there any known breakage with kernel or boot process atm?)
<pygi> sivang, we are writing them :)
<pygi> sivang, you could try to detect free space with libburn already (havent tried on multi-session dics tho)
<sivang> pygi: on non multi sessoins discs I don't think it makes much sense :)
<sivang> but I may be missing something..
<pygi> sivang, I need to get my  hands on some multi-session specs
<sivang> pygi: send the link away , I'll give it a try. Is there a test code somewhere in the source tree?
<pygi> sivang, I dont think there is test code for detecting free space
<pygi> you have api here: http://libburn-api.pykix.org
<sivang> pygi: you guys should have tests for all of the features of the api, basically.
<pygi> if you have questions, please be sure to direct them to libburn-hackers
<pygi> sivang, I may help there, and others can help there
<pygi> perhaps, but there are more important things then tests now :)
<sivang> pygi: can I just svn up in my already exsiting source tree?
<pygi> sivang, sure
<sivang> pygi: okay, I up'd - but I don't see the bindings there, have you commited them already ?
<pygi> sivang, no, no, as I said above: still working on them :)
<azeem> pygi: btw, libburn lacks a ChangeLog apparently :P
<pygi> azeem, it does, read development guide pls :)
<sivang> pygi: ah , okay, cool :-)
<pygi> azeem, I don't like changelogs :)
<pygi> azeem, http://libburn.pykix.org/wiki/DevGuide
<azeem> pygi: it would make sense to use a svn browser which can display commit logs then
<pygi> azeem, you can see commit logs :)
<pygi> azeem, as in "Last change"
<azeem> pygi: oh, then just the link to http://libburn-svn.pykix.org/ on the wiki frontpage is misleading
<pygi> if people think that changelog is better then my "agregate tickets per milestone" idea, I am willing to think :)
<azeem> I still think it's unneccesary hassle
<pygi> azeem, http://libburn.pykix.org/browser :)
<azeem> pygi: yes, I found it now
<sivang> pygi: looks promising, nice
<sivang> pygi: and there is a /test dir on the source tree, just make sur eyou add ther etests for new features you add
<pygi> sivang, what looks promising? yes, I'll make sure...I hope :)
<pygi> Do the packagers in ubuntu feel like changelog is better then my current way then? :)
<pygi> especially sivang who will maintain the packages? :)
<sivang> pygi: well, it's not a matter a feeling :-) It's a must
<sivang> pygi: if you do not provide it, then I will have to :p
<pygi> sivang, oh, ok, I'll leave it to you then :)
* pygi will have a NEWS file in every milestone tag, so that should help
<pygi> with major changes
<pygi> sivang, will that be enough?
<pygi> sivang, something similar like we did here:
<pygi> http://diva-project.org/browser/tags/ZeroZeroTwo/NEWS
<sivang> pygi: that seems fine, yes :)
<pygi> sivang, good :)
<pygi> sivang, I'll inform you as soon as py bindings are ready
<sivang> pygi: cool, let me know when you're aready for packaging
<pygi> sivang, sure, as soon as I get libisofs rewrite in, and python bindings
<sivang> pygi: okay
* sivang -> out
<\sh> re
<\sh> guys, when I try to push a "bazaar"ed sourcetree to bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/<product-name>/ubuntu with dappers bzr version, it doesn't push it to the server but creates a directory sftp...
<bluefoxicy> gah why can't synaptic show changelogs like update-manager
<mjg59> Is archive slow for anyone else right now?
<Hobbsee> mjg59: i thought it sped up for the past couple of days
<mjg59> Hm
<mjg59> Maybe it's my network, then
<Hobbsee> mjg59: what kinds of speeds are you getting?
<mjg59> 70K/sec or so
<elmo> mjg59: I can do 600K/s from the office
<mjg59> Right, probably me then
<Hobbsee> heh.  lucky
<Hobbsee> oh, wait, K/sec, yeah
<LarstiQ> \sh: you need to have paramiko installed
<janimo> mjg59: what is the main advantage of sensing laptop hotkeys (Audio in my case) via HAL vs grabbing the X pointer?
<mjg59> janimo: It makes little real difference
<mjg59> janimo: I'd just implement whichever is easier
<\sh> LarstiQ: ah...,)
<LarstiQ> \sh: 0.9 gives a better message about that, but it's not in dapper yet I'm afraid
<\sh> hmmm....
<\sh> why is python-paramiko (which depends on python2.4-paramiko) in universe, and python2.4-paramiko in main...this looks wrong somehow...but nevermind ;)
<bddebian> Morning folks
<_ion> Good evening.
<welshbyte> ello bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya welshbyte
<bddebian> welshbyte: I haven't had a chance to look at gnu-smalltalk yet but I will
<welshbyte> bddebian: yeah no problem, in your own time
<bddebian> welshbyte: Need more work in the mean time? ;-)
<welshbyte> bddebian: umm, well i was going to have a look at bonfire...
<bddebian> welshbyte: Ah, OK
<bddebian> As long as you are working.. ;-P
<welshbyte> this isn't work, this is fun :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-devel.log
<rkd> how important is python in ubuntu development? is it worth learning it in order to contribute to ubuntu. or is a relatively minor tool/likely to be replaced with something like ruby?
<Burgwork> rkd, python is what almost all new ubuntu tools are developed in
<Burgwork> rkd, we currently don't ship ruby by default, so if you want to develop something for Ubuntu in that language, you may have issues
<rkd> Burgwork: i wasn't implying that i wanted to do ubuntu-ruby development, just that i'd heard ruby compared very favourably to python and wondered if ubuntu was likely to move away from python in the future
<pygi> rkd, unlikely :)
<sbalneav> rodarvus_: ping
<rodarvus_> sbalneav, pong
<sbalneav> Need me to test any of the nbd-swap stuff?
<rkd> Burgwork, pygi: ok, thanks
<pygi> rkd, python rocks ^_^ see 2.5 ^_^
<rodarvus> sbalneav, its not ready, yet. I planned to work on it the full day yesterday, but other, uhh... interesting issues kept me from touching it :/
<sbalneav> Ohhh, good interesting, or bad interesting? :)
<pitti> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey pitti!   Thanks for the green light on lbmount!
<sbalneav> How's the sprint?
<pitti> sbalneav: quite nice and productive
<sbalneav> Awesome.  Ogra tells me much nautilus happieness is in place now!  ltsp + localdev + edgy = sexy.
<pitti> sbalneav: indeed, I was really impressed by it
<ogra> totally 
<pitti> sbalneav: yes, gnome-vfs should behave now
<sbalneav> ogra!  you scurvy dog you!
<ogra> sbalneav, we have even an option in the user and groups tool to en/disable it per user ;)
<ogra> i just added it
<sbalneav> hey hey
<ogra> and i guess you noticed that the spec is set to implemented ;)
<sbalneav> I see that the xnest bug's been squashed.  Rodrigo's got nbd in hand, what can I kick in on?  What's the progress on scp?  Anything I can help with?
<sbalneav> Yea! Saw that!  W00t
<ogra> scp is currently attacked by cbx33 ...
<ogra> but he might need help, not sure ... i had no time to talk to him yet
<ogra> sbalneav, btw, i tried an ipod yesterday, works perfect ;)
<sbalneav> ipod for the win!
<sbalneav> how about login-and-session-handling?
<ogra> on my list but not yet targeted ... i need to look at your ltspinfod and how to get it runing on the server to provide the two variables
<ogra> that'd be soemthing you could greatly help with ... (assuming you wrote ltspinfod)
<sbalneav> ogra: Or, rather than that, I was thinking...
<sbalneav> Oh, wait, ubuntu doesn't run inetd does it...
<ogra> ltsp does ;)
<Burgwork> rkd, very unlikely that ruby will replace python. I won't say it won't happen, but pig are probably going to fly first
<ogra> but we discussed that, remember ? 
<ogra> mdz insisted to use ltspinfod 
<sbalneav> umm vaguely :)
<ogra> (i'd also have preferred a small python app that just provides the info as we designed it first (using inetd))
<sbalneav> we'd have to run it on the server, in order for ldm to pick up the languages.  But maybe I'm confusing things, gimme a sec to go re-read the sped.
<sbalneav> s/sped/spec/
<ogra> right, we have to run it on the server 
<ogra> is ltspinfod only designed for clients ? 
<sbalneav> There's no reason it can't run on the server.  I'll go grab the code.  How much longer you gonna be online?
<rodarvus> sbalneav, bad interesting :)
<sbalneav> :(
<rodarvus> really horrible interesting, actually
<sbalneav> :( :(
* sbalneav hands rodarvus a beer for commiseration
<sbalneav> brb, workping
<rodarvus> I'll get over it. I have a hard skin :)
<rodarvus> (but I still own people a public apology, which I'll do today)
<sbalneav> ogra: leave the mods to ltspinfod to me
<sbalneav> I'll do it tonight.
<ogra> cool, thanks 1
<ogra> !
<ogra> then i'll leave out the ldm today and look into the installer/udeb stuff 
<sbalneav> k
<sbalneav> sounds like a plan
<ogra> yup
<ogra> even though we only have ~1h before mdz locks the room :/
<mjg59> Oh foo.
<mjg59> How do I force dput to upload the orig.tar.gz when it doesn't want to?
<crimsun> pass -sa to debuild [/dpkg-buildpackage]  -S
<mjg59> Ah
<mjg59> Yes, that's the one
<pascal80> why is foomatic-db-gutenprint and ijsgutenprint installed by default on Edgy
<pascal80> These packages are only needed for non CUPS spoolers like lpr an lprng
<pascal80> cupsys-driver-gutenprint generates CUPS raster PPDs for all printers supported by gutenprint
<pascal80> since Ubuntu uses CUPS, why have foomatic-db-gutenprint and ijsgutenprint?
<Treenaks> you again?
<Treenaks> :)
<HiddenWolf> Treenaks: be nice
<pascal80> hello again Treenaks
<Treenaks> you should try during the day (Europe-day), then more people are active here
<pascal80> I have a job to do during the day
<Treenaks> then just mail the -devel list :)
<pascal80> OK will do
<Nafallo> pascal80: or try in a week when the devels are back from the sprint :-)
<Burgwork> pascal80, the person you need to talk to is pitti
<pascal80> Thanks a lot guys!
* mjg59 fixes usplash
<sladen> mjg59: oooh, talking of that
<aigarius> could a launchpad administrator please remove https://launchpad.net/products/sbackup/trash ?
<pygi> aigarius, #launchpad
<aigarius> pygi: ok
<mdz> mjg59: which bit?
<mjg59> mdz: Mm?
<mdz> mjg59: the bit which breaks my text consoles or the bit which breaks resume from hibernate?
<mjg59> mdz: Oh, usplash?
<mdz> y
<mjg59> Text consoles should be fixed now
<mdz> do you know what the issue is with resume?
<mjg59> svgalib screwed up resetting text mode if your resolution was above 800x600
* pygi yays for libburn burning applications :)
<mjg59> I'm checking that next
<mjg59> sabdfl: Incidentally, we have adequate X server support to ship with bling
<gnomefreak> who would be best to ask about kernel restricted modules
<bddebian> Did mysql-doc get wrapped into another package?  Seems to have disappeared from Debian after Woody
<mdz> gnomefreak: #ubuntu-kernel
<gnomefreak> ty
<mjg59> mdz: Oh, I see
<mjg59> mdz: Looks like a kernel issue that we fixed is back
<pygi> mdz, is there any chance I might convince *someone* that we get SVN packages into universe? :)
<pygi> more specifically, libburn, libisofs, and cdrskin :)
<mjg59> mdz: Ask Ben to reapply the patch that removes pm_prepare_console and pm_restore_console
<mdz> mjg59: please note that in bug 56591
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56591 in usplash "Can't resume from hibernation" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56591
<mjg59> mdz: Incidentally, I can probably provide graphical hiberante support if you want?
<mdz> mjg59: oh, how?
<mjg59> mdz: The uswsusp code we have in universe
<mjg59> mdz: I can split usplash out into a library
<mjg59> Then the uswsusp s2disk program can drive that while hibernating or resuming
<mdz> don't we switch off the backlight fairly early while hibernating anyway?
<mjg59> Yeah
<mjg59> Which is probably less than ideal
<Keybuk> ==21543== Syscall param exit_group(exit_code) contains uninitialised byte(s)
<Keybuk> ==21543==    at 0x4000822: (within /lib/ld-2.4.so)
<Keybuk> ==21543==    by 0x40488D3: (below main) (in /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc-2.4.so)
<Keybuk> ah!  that means "you returned an uninitialised int and gcc didn't notice"
<mjg59> mdz: Patch attached
<mdz> hmm, I don't see it
<mjg59> Try again?
<mjg59> (Forgot to add a description)
<mdz> there it is
<sabdfl> mjg59: bling == spiftacity etc?
<mjg59> mdz: sabdfl Yeah
<mjg59> Erm
<mjg59> sabdfl: yeah
<mdz> mjg59: that isn't the first patch that seems to have gone missing from the kernel since dapper
<sabdfl> very cool, i'll ask guys to look into that
<mjg59> sabdfl: The X server is fully bling-enabled now already, so I've uploaded new compiz
<mjg59> (partly stuck in new)
<sabdfl> superb
<mjg59> mdz: That one got submitted as part of a single larger patch
<mdz> s/stuck/queued/, it's only been there an hour :-P
<sabdfl> do we know any graphics visual-effects oriented developers?
<mjg59> mdz: My fault
<sabdfl> other than the you-know-who guys we're talking to about you-know-what :-)
<mjg59> sabdfl: There's Dave Reveman, obviously
<sabdfl> ?
<mjg59> sabdfl: Wrote Xgl and large parts of compiz
<mjg59> Probably quite happy at Novell
<sabdfl> ah, right
<mjg59> But Compiz is mostly being developed by someone called Quinn at the moment
<mjg59> I'm not sure what she actually does full time
<sabdfl> i'm thinking more "special effects"
<mjg59> But she's been providing compiz debs for a while - the ones I uploaded are basically hers
<sabdfl> i think there's one kind of guy likes to build the frameworks for this, and another likes to leverage it
<mjg59> Well, this is algorithms for altering window shapes and so on
* imbrandon blonks
<imbrandon> blinks*
<mjg59> sabdfl: It's pretty specially bling
<Seveas> mjg59, both compiz and lots of broken packages (libvte etc...) unfortunately
<sabdfl> ok
<mjg59> Seveas: The compiz ones seem fine. I make no judgements as to packages I've never looked at :)
<Seveas> the compiz ones are fine ;)
<imbrandon> mjg59:  Seveas: yea she has been working with ajmitch to get them into our repos with her changes
<imbrandon> as of late
<Seveas> rock
* Seveas hugs ajmitch 
<imbrandon> late == last 2 or 3 days iirc
<mjg59> imbrandon: Ah - someone should possibly have mentioned :)
<mjg59> imbrandon: Anyway, they're there now
<mjg59> sabdfl: I've done some quick tests with usplash. It seems entirely able to get a lot of pixels on the screen quite quickly
<mdz> pygi: the only people you need to convince are MOTU
<pygi> mdz, ah, good then :) I can do that :)
<imbrandon> pygi: whats up ? i missed something in the netsplit heh
<pygi> imbrandon, ehm? :)
<imbrandon> nvm misread something
* imbrandon lunches
<sabdfl> mjg59: that may just come in handy :-)
<_ion> Yeah, quinn's compiz and cgwd packages seem to be good from an end user's point of view.
<mjg59> Goddamn.
<mjg59> From a hot cache, gnome now starts in ~2 seconds
<mjg59> From a cold cache, it's more like 20 on my Thinkpad
<desrt> there's a lot to be said about preloading
<gnomefreak> she just said maybe 20-30 minutes ago that the latest bugs that were found are fixed. i cant test til i figure this modules issue out
<mjg59> The i/o really kills us on slow hard drives
<_ion> mjg: Such as mine. :-)
<desrt> when the login prompt is just waiting for the user to enter their name and pw
<desrt> that's valuable preload time
<_ion> Indeed.
<mjg59> Does xorg.conf get rewritten on package upgrades if it hasn't been modified?
<mjg59> Or does it just get written on a clean install?
<mdz> mjg59: if you're keen on graphical hibernate, I'm agreeable if it could be done pre-featurefreeze and downright happy if it's backoutable
<mjg59> mdz: Sure
<mjg59> mdz: When's feature freeze?
<mdz> mjg59: 2 weeks from tomorrow (7th)
<mjg59> mdz: No problem
<boodle> hiya,has anyone found a soln to python2.4-minimal installing cleanly in edgy? (pycentral script prob it seems)
#ubuntu-devel 2006-08-24
<mjg59> mdz: Ok, working graphical hibernate
<mjg59> (modulo the bugs that stop hibernate working with splash at the moment, which also stop this working with splash. But still)
<mdz> mjg59: woo
<mjg59> I'll upload the needed usplash changes now
<sabdfl> mjg59: very cool indeed. should i be testing hibernate etc on an x60?
<mjg59> sabdfl: Not just yet
<sabdfl> ok, ping when it would help
<mjg59> It'll need a new kernel first
<sabdfl> ok, i'll find a kernel maintainer in a bandana to poke
<zul> hola
<Seq> does anybody have much experience with apt-ftparchive, or can suggest a better way to run a repository?
<bluefoxicy> how are duplicates handled?
* bluefoxicy is curious, one of his bugs (54xxx) got marked a duplicate of another bug (57xxx) ....
<desrt> Seq; http://ubuntu.desrt.ca/Makefile
<jdub> Seq: http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/ubuntu/edgy/Makefile
<desrt> hahah
<bluefoxicy> except my bug is months older :O
<desrt> mine comes from jdub answering that same question to me a while ago :)
<bluefoxicy> is there some sort of competition on who has the coolest bug?
<Seq> thanks desrt & jdub
<tseng> hi desrt 
<desrt> tseng; goodbye.
<Seq> desrt, also, thanks tonnes for the macbook-backlight
<tseng> oh, fine
<desrt> Seq; no prob :D
<desrt> Seq; it was a fun hack to reverse engineer the apple stuff to figure out how it worked :)
<tseng> Seq: desrt has a sick and twisted concept of "fun"
<Seq> desrt, thats why i got a macbook. I thought it would be a useful (and possibly fun, yes) use of my time.
<desrt> tseng; i was sitting in the shwarma place across the street frm the university with a good friend and we were poking random values at guessed memory locations on my shiny new laptop
<tseng> Seq: like playing drunken match maker for the locals in a foreign country
<desrt> tseng; that's fun :)
<Fujitsu> desrt, that does sound fun :P
<desrt> tseng; now that's just a weird person who would do that
<tseng> yeah, I don't know anyone of the sort
<desrt> b'sides.  i didn't play matchmaker
<desrt> i just greased the wheels a bit with copious amounts of alcohol
<tseng> you altered the course of business
<desrt> it'd have happened eventually anyway
<tseng> I doubt it, did you not notice his hair
<desrt> you're a jerk :p
<tseng> this is true.
<desrt> anyway... baris was there too.
<tseng> baris ciciek?
<desrt> ya
<desrt> the 4 of us
<tseng> wish i'd met him
<desrt> cool guy.  strong silent type :)
<tseng> working with him on last-exit now
<tseng> i wasnt aware of him previously
<desrt> do you know what he looks like?
<tseng> nope
<tseng> please help
<tseng> for all I know we chatted it up
<desrt> plz wait.
<desrt> http://desrt.mcmaster.ca/random/baris+friends.jpeg
<tseng> oh, don't think so
<desrt> he was around....
<tseng> i saw him
<tseng> i don't recall having a chat
<tseng> I didnt really introduce myself to random people
<desrt> your loss :)
<tseng> yeah
<exobuzz> is there a workaround for this bug yet ? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python2.4/+bug/56779
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56779 in python2.4 "Error during Dapper-->Edgy update" [High,Confirmed]  
<tseng> desrt: im lounging in my ucc shirt btw
<tseng> desrt: computer clubs you
<desrt> :)
<Keybuk> ucc?
<tseng> Keybuk: hold
<mjg59> Today I have uploaded more crack than you can shake a stick at
<tseng> Keybuk: http://www.ucc.asn.au/t-shirts.ucc
<tseng> Keybuk: computer club at davyd madely's university
<Keybuk> ah
<desrt> madeley
<tseng> sure.
<desrt> hmm.  they're sold out now
<desrt> that shirt is very popular at my school :)
<desrt> everyone wants one
<tseng> i dont really wear this sort of thing out on the town
<tseng> "Mono" doesnt go over well in public here either
<desrt> me neither.  but school is fair game for borderline fashion
<tseng> you think the jokes would be too obvious to be funny
<tseng> but most people don't agree
<LaserJock> heh, I hadn't really thought of that
<tseng> It's Moh-no, not Mon-oh
<Burgundavia> iwj: you broke gai
<tseng> but americans arent cultured like that
<LaserJock> heh
<Burgundavia> iwj: Bug #57528
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57528 in gnome-app-install "[Edgy]  Missing dependency on python-gdbm" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57528
<desrt> g_key_file is really really easy to use.
* desrt just grafted it into the applets stuff
<tseng> desrt: whats that?
<desrt> [section] 
<desrt> key=value
<desrt> key2=value2
<desrt> this sort of file
<tseng> oh.
<desrt> it even has a load_from_data_dir interface
<desrt> so i can tell it "applets/WeatherApplet"
<desrt> and it will check /home/desrt/.local/share/applets/WeatherApplet, /usr/local/share, /usr/share, etc...
<desrt> and because of the way the API works (which might actually seems a bit weird/annoying at first) you can make a bunch of calls without ever checking for errors on the intermediate calls and the final call will just return NULL if -anything- bad happened at all along the way
<tseng> why a file and not gconf?
<tseng> </dumbquestion>
<tseng> i see for weather applet
<desrt> oh.  no.  think like .desktop file
<desrt> this is just a pointer to the location of the executable
<HrdwrBoB> the weather applet should use the timezone for the default location
<tseng> HrdwrBoB: uh
<tseng> HrdwrBoB: right.
<desrt> HrdwrBoB; bad idea.  country is much more accurate
<desrt> (which is what it does now, in a roundabout way)
<HrdwrBoB> I mean Location
<HrdwrBoB> wrt timezone
<HrdwrBoB> Austraila/Melbourne
<HrdwrBoB> f.e.
<desrt> that works great for australia maybe, but not most of the rest of the world
<desrt> where central european time is a huge number of countries
<HrdwrBoB> people in the rest of the world don't put in their location correctly?
<tseng> new york and some place in south america are probably in the same TZ
<HrdwrBoB> it's at least closer
<tseng> closer than what?
<Burgundavia> the weather applet has other issues
<tseng> if you have to set it, you have to set it
<tseng> it has search, no big deal
<desrt> k let's stop talking about applets :p
<tseng> yeah, don't hurt desrt 
<desrt> k thx
<tseng> Keybuk: what in the world are you doing up, anyway?
<mae> hey guys, I was wondering if you could suggest a reasonably priced linux friendly core2 laptop -- anyone in the market lately?
<Burgundavia> desrt: btw, great work on the api stuff. I am sure that people smarter than me will appreciate it
<tseng> mae: there are hardly any core2 laptops in the market atm
<desrt> Burgundavia; i hope vincent appreciates it as he's writing my final evaluation :)
<tseng> Burgundavia: the key for you is, "no more bonobo"
<Burgundavia> tseng: but I like monkeys!
<Burgundavia> I mean, I love you, tseng
<desrt> Burgundavia; so have some mono
<tseng> Burgundavia: or maybe you don't remmeber the days of 'bonobo-slay'
<desrt> heh
<desrt> we're having a real life bonobo-slay these days
<tseng> that was so badass
<desrt> and it doesn't take a commandline argument
<tseng> evolution would break it all
<desrt> it just slays itself
<tseng> killall orbit
<tseng> gconfd
<tseng> bonobo-slay
<desrt> k.  i'm out.
<tseng> etc
<HrdwrBoB> mae: macbook :)
<tseng> HrdwrBoB: didnt he just say "linux friendly"?
<tseng> HrdwrBoB: and core2?
<tseng> HrdwrBoB: and... reasonably priced?
<mae> HrdwrBoB: i thought they got super hot
* tseng wonders which you thought applied
<Keybuk> tseng: coding ;)
<HrdwrBoB> macbook is reasonably priced
<HrdwrBoB> macbook PRO is expensive
<HrdwrBoB> and oh.. I'm blind, there are no core 2 laptops afiak 
<exobuzz> macbook pro looks nice though
<exobuzz> :-)
<exobuzz> why when it comes to electronics is the exchange rate from USD to GBP about $1 to the pound ?
<exobuzz> it just isnt fair..
<mae> how is Intel(R) Graphics Media Accelerator 950 support?
<Burgundavia> mae: very good
<mae> better than/same as an nvidia setup?
<mae> how about power management?
<exobuzz> i have some big regrets getting a laptop with an ati card (for linux)..
<mae> heh
<mae> well i just want something powerful enough for xgl/aiglx and maybe a few light games -- but power management is more important to me, i want suspend-to-memory working
<exobuzz> suspend to memory.. i remember that.. back when i had a laptop which didnt have an ati card :-)
<mae> haha
<exobuzz> mae: you want some eye candy eh ?
<mae> well i hope you guys don't mean vesa when you say "good linux support"
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<mae> i want hardware acceleration support
<mae> exobuzz: well thats OK but mainly i want it for scale(expose` ripoff)
<mae> it makes navigating bagillions of windows much more functional
<exobuzz> bagillions.. wow. thats like. more than a billian right ? :-)
<mae> lol
<mae> exactly
<exobuzz> i dont see why you need more than one window... should be enough. with a basic prompt of course, and some free ram. built in assembler is a bonus!
<exobuzz> aah the good old days
<Keybuk> I HATE AUTOMAKE
<Keybuk> ===============================================
<Keybuk> upstart-0.1.0 archives ready for distribution: 
<Keybuk> upstart-0.1.0.tar.gz
<Keybuk> upstart-0.1.0.tar.bz2
<Keybuk> ===============================================
<Keybuk> \o/
<tseng> upstart?
<Keybuk> aye
<bddebian> *\O/*
<Burgundavia> tseng: Keybuks new init crack
<bddebian> hehe
<tseng> weirdo
<tseng> does it use the old scripts?
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<tseng> hello
<Keybuk> tseng: yeah, it runs them
<tseng> Keybuk: elite
<Keybuk> it would be a hell of an annoying transition if it didn't
<tseng> eight
<tseng> right
<bluefoxicy> so what cool shit did you add?
<bluefoxicy> init script dependencies?  Named and hierarchical runlevels?  Dancing catgirls on usplash?
<Keybuk> none of those three things
<tseng> runlevels are for suckers
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  hence why I have 6 of them.
<HrdwrBoB> kernels depending on udev?
<bluefoxicy> seven, I guess 0 is a valid runlevel.
* HrdwrBoB files a bug
<HrdwrBoB> and by that I mean they DON'T depend on udev
<tseng> HrdwrBoB: would you like devices?
<tseng> oh.
<HrdwrBoB> yes, I like devices very much
<Keybuk> right, bed
<Keybuk> before I do anything more
<tseng> g'night Keybuk 
<bddebian> Gnight Keybuk
<tseng> desrt: boston summit?
<bddebian> Anyone around that can check if my ipac-ng upload got rejected?
<toddobryan> Sorry if this is OT, but it looks like the latest portmap package was compiled without tcpwrappers support. It ignores /etc/hosts.deny and /etc/hosts.allow
<toddobryan> Where can I verify and report that?
<lifeless> will the buildlog tell you ?
<toddobryan> Where would it be?
<Hobbsee> launchpad, presumably
<lifeless> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/portmap
<bddebian> toddobryan: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/226076
<lifeless> takes you to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/portmap/5-20
<lifeless> and from there you can get to the url bddebian has pasted, which is for i386
<toddobryan> I just downloaded the source. It has a WRAP_LIB line commented out, but another one with WRAP_LIB = -lwrap in there.
<lifeless> if you are not on i386 though, you should look at the buildlog for your architecture
<toddobryan> http://nfs.sourceforge.net/nfs-howto/ar01s06.html
<toddobryan> I tried the check the NFS HowTo suggested, and there's no /etc/hosts.allow or .deny anywhere.
<toddobryan> It's right above the first code block on that page.
<lifeless> toddobryan: I'm not sure what you are talking about, but FWIW look for -lwrap in the buildlog - and its there
<lifeless> cc -Wall  -DHOSTS_ACCESS -DCHECK_PORT  -DFACILITY=LOG_DAEMON  -DIGNORE_SIGCHLD	 -DIGNORE_SIGPIPE    -O2  -o portmap portmap.o pmap_check.o from_local.o  -lwrap -lnsl
<lifeless> etc
<toddobryan> lifeless: but portmap doesn't appear to pay any attention to hosts.allow and hosts.deny; it just ignores them
<lifeless> I dont know enough about that to help you.
<lifeless> I was asnwering your question, which was 'was it built with it'
<toddobryan> It looks like -lwrap was a recent change to the build file. I'm wondering if it actually did what it was supposed to.
<toddobryan> Where should I take this to find out/report it?
<lifeless> file a bug?
<toddobryan> OK. I'm just not sure that it is one. :-/
<lifeless> have you used it before ?
<toddobryan> No. I'm using it for the first time, and, like I said, going through NFS's HowTo.
<lifeless> is this a regression you are observing, or are you doing a new setup
<toddobryan> new setup.
<lifeless> ok, then #ubuntu or a support request are the right places to ask
<toddobryan> OK. Somebody posted something about it on the forums, but nothing came of it.
<Hobbsee> how odd.  
<Hobbsee> toddobryan: the developers dont read the forums, FYI
<toddobryan> Thanks a lot. I'm going to try rebuilding, removing the -lwrap line and using the commented out line it replaced, just to see what happens.
<toddobryan> Thanks, though.
<lifeless> ok. if that fixes things, please do file a bug saying so, and how to reproduce
<toddobryan> Will do.
<bddebian> Are there any archive admins awake?
<jdub> so i suppose it's about time to start upgrading servers to edgy
<jdub> for great justice
<crimsun> I wouldn't
<crimsun> there's some nasty python2.4-minimal interaction (from Debian's python2.4 2.4.3-7) that hasn't been fixed yet
<jdub> crimsun: lazy tester!!!111
<Keybuk> damn those habits
<iwj> Burgundavia: Upload on the way, thanks for the report.
<dholbach> TheMuso: it'd be nice if you could forward your bug reports to upstream also and link it from launchpad
<Seveas> Kamion, is there a specific reason that there is no stock reply for duplicates of bug 48524 on DebuggingUbiquity, or can I add one?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48524 in ubiquity "crash when hw-detect/modprobe_error is asked" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48524
<infinity> pitti: Is python-apport-utils headed to main?
<jdub> looks like it's time to upgrade my home server to edgy
<jdub> let's see what breaks!
<simira> jdub: nothing, of course. Edgy works just perfect! (almost)
<jdub> perfect like communism!
<jono> he
<jono> hey
<dholbach> hellas jono, hellas jdub!
<\sh> moins
<jono> hey dholbach :)
<Kamion> Seveas: I'd prefer you didn't just directly add one for 48524, but feel free to mail me suggested text; it would be useful
<glatzor> lifeless: hi. I created a new bzr branch (using bzr 0.9) and pushed the repository via rpush. But if you want to branch my repo you will get the following error: "ERROR: No repository present"
<Kamion> Seveas: (I like to be quite careful about DebuggingUbiquity, since it gets cut and pasted into lots of bugs
<Kamion> )
<Seveas> Kamion, that's hy I asked ;)
<Kamion> infinity: will dapper-backports get built usefully at the moment? If not, can you set that up?
<infinity> Kamion: It won't, but I can certainly make it do so, yes.
<infinity> Kamion: Does this mean you guys have sprinted on the ftp-master tools to cobble it together?
<infinity> Kamion: You'll need to give me a quick run-through to let me know how to make them go.
<infinity> Kamion: And, please push at least one backport through to ACCEPTED, so I can test the buildd infrastructure when I get it going.
<Kamion> infinity: yes, I got Mark and Scott to help me write the necessary LP code
<Kamion> lp_archive@drescher:~/backports$ ~cjwatson/backport-source.py -b jdong -s dapper libtheora
<Kamion>   - <libtheora_0.0.0.alpha7-1ubuntu1.dsc: downloading from librarian>
<Kamion>   - <libtheora_0.0.0.alpha7-1ubuntu1.diff.gz: downloading from librarian>
<Kamion>   - <libtheora_0.0.0.alpha7.orig.tar.gz: downloading from librarian>
<Kamion> I: Extracting libtheora_0.0.0.alpha7-1ubuntu1.dsc ...  done.
<Kamion> then dump into sync queue
<Kamion> I: Building backport of libtheora-0.0.0.alpha7 ...  done.
<Kamion> script will move to a more sensible place of coursse
<Kamion> -s
<Kamion> default backport-from suite is current development branch
<infinity> Kamion: Kay, and I assume there's a switch to pick a different one?
<Kamion> yeah, -S
<Kamion> haven't quite sorted out sync-queue/process-incoming.sh - I think there's some issue regarding pockets there
<infinity> Kamion: And is it smart enough to go devel->devel-- if you don't supply either of -{s,S}?
<Kamion> since it needs to drop the sync into -backports
<Kamion> infinity: not at the moment unfortunately - couldn't immediately see how to get the distrorelease ordering out of lp
<mvo> infinity: could you please trigger a rebuild for eel2 on powerpc? it blocks the new nautilus on ppc
<infinity> Kamion: process-incoming is smart enough to read .changes files, just stop providing a hardcoded dist in your shell script.
<Kamion> oh, really? cool.
<infinity> Kamion: The only reason the builddmaster hardcodes the dist is because of the brain-dead --dist=autobuild thing on the buildds.
<Kamion> I'll check that out, thanks
<infinity> Kamion: And I suspect that code was stolen from the builddmaster, hence the hardcoding.
<infinity> mvo: Yeah, there area couple of GNOME snags on PPC/sparc.  I'm looking at them all right now.
<mvo> infinity: thanks!
<infinity> mvo: Thanks for the heads-up anyway.  People sometimes expect me to be all-knowing, and I embarassingly miss stuff like this for days when I'm not paying attention. :)
<dholbach> could somebody please liberate sofia-sip from NEW (it was synced from Debian and was NEW for us)
<infinity> dholbach: I'm doing NEW right now, let me look.
<dholbach> infinity: thanks a lot.
<infinity> dholbach: universe, I assume?
<dholbach> yes
<infinity> dholbach: And it's just a sync from Debian?
<dholbach> yes
* infinity gives it a quick once-over anyway.
<infinity> That's a susprisingly comprehensive debian/copyright.
* infinity gives "Martti Mela" a gold statr.
<infinity> star, too.
<jdub> dholbach: woo
<infinity> dholbach: Accepted.
<dholbach> infinity: you rock
* dholbach hugs infinity
<Kamion> infinity: process-incoming> yep, looks plausible
<infinity> Kamion: I should hope so, otherwise our upload queues would never work right. :P
* mvo hugs infinity
<Kamion> infinity: exactly :)
<LarstiQ> Equivalent code is available from RSA Data Security, Inc.  This code has
<LarstiQ> been tested against that, and is equivalent, except that you don't need
<LarstiQ> to include two pages of legalese with every copy.
<LarstiQ> woops
<LarstiQ> infinity: a gold star indeed :)
<Kamion> infinity: ok, there's one in accepted now
<infinity> Kamion: Spiff.  I'm building the chroots right now.
<Kamion> cool, and it goes straight through to accepted, not unapproved, even
<dholbach> infinity: i'm looking at the url-selection stuff in gnome-terminal (vte) now
<infinity> dholbach: Ahh, so you've seen the bug, then?  I don't need to give you obscure instructions and screen shots?
<dholbach> infinity: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=352439
<Ubugtu> Gnome bug 352439 in VteTerminal "URL highlighting seriously broken" [Major,New]  
<infinity> dholbach: (the underlining being nowhere near the actual URL, the mouse-sensitivity being in the wrong spot, etc)
<dholbach> infinity: i have a "test case" now :)
<infinity> dholbach: Ahh, cool.  Thanks for tracking it.  You're my almost-as-cool-as-mvo hero.
<sivang> morning
<Hobbsee> hey sivang 
* dholbach hugs infinity
* sivang hugs Hobbsee 
* infinity is watching German TV right now in honour of dholbach and mvo.
* Hobbsee hugs sivang 
* Hobbsee notes that LP always seems to timeout going to her package list.
<infinity> Hobbsee: It's telling you that you upload too much.
<sivang> pitti: going to test the fix now :)
<Hobbsee> infinity: hehe, yeah, i think so....
<StevenK> ln -s edgy-changes hobbsee-changes
<sivang> hey infinity , 'sup ?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: hah.
<elmo> why do we put deb-src lines in apt configs by default?
<infinity> elmo: To make RMS happy, and to make users download too much crap?
<infinity> elmo: I actually got into a flamewar with rms over him insisting that a default sources.list with no deb-src lines was not "providing equivalent access to source".
<dholbach> to make  apt-cache showsrc  and  apt-get build-dep  work and to make it easier for us to give instructions to build packages with debug symbols on bug reports :)
<elmo> ehm, seriously
<infinity> elmo: I gave up when the blood from my forehead appeared to be irreversibly staining my wall.
<elmo> oh well, ok
<infinity> elmo: He was arguing that without deb-src lines, users would never know that the sources were on the FTP site, and we'd need to do the written promise thing to make up for it.  This was years ago on some Debian list or other.
<infinity> elmo: It all seemed a bit sketchy to me, but Sources.gz is significantly smaller than Packages.gz, so I gave up the fight.
<elmo> infinity: it's things like this that make me fear the "or later at your option" clause :(
<elmo> infinity: it's smaller, but it basically doubles the amount of http connects all our users are doing
* infinity nods.
<elmo> and 99% of them aren't going to ever be using the info returned
<elmo> which is a bit frustrating, but oh well
<mdz> BenC: bug 56591
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56591 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Can't resume from hibernation" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56591
<dholbach> infinity: vte 0.13.6-0ubuntu2
<BenC> mdz: thanks
<Keybuk> elmo: why?  it's "at your option"
<Keybuk> you can always just distribute it under the GPL-2 again
<Keybuk> (unless some interim developer has added GPL-3 code to it)
<infinity> Keybuk: Until an upstream switching to v3, and all the new code is under the new license.
<infinity> s/switching/switches/
<Keybuk> infinity: assuming upstream own the copyright to all their source
<Keybuk> so send a GPL-2 only patch to your upstream today <g>
<jdub> Keybuk: triple-headed hydra :(
<Keybuk> actually, it just needs to be a "GPL-2 or at your option" patch
<Keybuk> they can't revoke your permission for other people to have an option for that bit of code
<Keybuk> obviously, they can remove it
<infinity> dholbach: *hug*
* dholbach hugs infinity back
<geser> Keybuk: hello
<geser> is it possible to sync a package from debian which source name has changed?
<infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, it's not about "that bit of the code", it's about "new bits of the code".  Unless v3 ends up being declared incompatible with v2, and you can't mix-and-match them in the same codebase, which would be entertaining.
<geser> rhythmbox-applet is now called music-applet
<infinity> Keybuk: Cause if they are declared incompatble licesnse, then adding any v3 code to a "v2 or later" project would force you to relicense the whole thing as v3 (or drop the new code).
<Kamion> infinity: v2-only and v3-only are incompatible both ways
<sivang> pitti: cool, my code works again, gazil thanks
<pitti> sivang: \o/
<Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/bzr/libnih/
<Keybuk> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~keybuk/upstart/trunk
<Keybuk> uh. sorry
<Keybuk> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~keybuk/upstart/main
<simira> mvo: do you need me to break u-m anything more today, ir can I finish my upgrades?
<simira> ir/or
<mvo> simira: finishing your upgrade should be fine, thanks :)
<infinity> Kamion: Sure, but you could relicense a "v2 or later" as v3-only or v2-only.
<simira> mvo: thanks
<Kamion> infinity: right
<Kamion> well, sort of
<Kamion> if you were adding something copyrightable to it, you could make that addition v3-only or v2-only, and then the only way to distribute the combination would be under the terms of v3 or v2 respectively
<Kamion> you couldn't actually change the licence of the other code
<infinity> Kamion: Well, yes.  I meant "relicense the bundle", as it were, not the original code.
<infinity> Kamion: But with enough new code that people don't want to discard, they end up amounting to the same thing.
<Kamion> nod
<Kamion> woo, backports backlog cleared, pending builds
<Kamion> and one that I queried
<Hobbsee> cool!  backports!
<Hobbsee> thanks Kamion!
<sivang> Keybuk: what does upstrat do?
<geser> IIRC is upstart an event-driven init system
<grendel_> afternoon folks
* infinity kicks sejong and floe, and their slow disks.
<infinity> Seriously, when an hppa box that lamont rescued from a dumpster can outperform you, there's something wrong guys.
<grendel_> is anybody involved with ubuntu's openldap around?
<infinity> grendel_: Define "involved".
<grendel_> well, in the know, perhaps
<infinity> grendel_: I tend to do most of the Ubuntu work on it, but we don't modify it much from Debian.
<infinity> (if at all, these days)
<grendel_> hmm, does it work for you under edgy?
<grendel_> I can't get the edgy version to start, just compiled the debian/sid version, it starts but doesn't authenticate
<grendel_> the same was with the edgy's version a few weeks back
<grendel_> all after a standard install, no tweaking
<infinity> grendel_: Have you filed a bug about it?  I don't run it on my laptop, and I've not played with the edgy build for a while.
<grendel_> even putting rootdn and rootpw in slapd.conf doesn't help
<infinity> grendel_: If you file a bug, I'll be sure to hit it with a stick and sort it.
<grendel_> infinity: no bug filed yet, I want to learn whether it's just me first
<infinity> grendel_: Well, I can do a quick install and see if it breaks here too.
<grendel_> infinity: it seems strange that nobody else has seen it, that's why I'm suspecting it might be my system
<grendel_> infinity: that'd be cool
<grendel_> infinity: anonymous bind works, authenticating as defined admin (-x -W -D "cn=admin,dc=domain,dc=org") doesn't work 
<infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ ps ax | grep slapd
<infinity> 11725 ?        Ssl    0:00 /usr/sbin/slapd
<grendel_> giving error 49, bad credentials
<infinity> Oh, it starts, but doesn't auth?
<grendel_> yeah
<infinity> Using what client(s)?
<grendel_> ldapsearch from ldap-utils
<grendel_> and I used lat too
<grendel_> no candy there either
<grendel_> what was the url of the ubuntu's pastebin?
<infinity> We don't have one... ubuntulinux.nl does, though.
<grendel_> k, sec then
<infinity> As does this one, evidently: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/
<infinity> Oh, same one, differnet domain. :)
<infinity> Google is so cruel to me.
<grendel_> just found the above :)
<grendel_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21533
<grendel_> using -d10 shows the hex dump of the packets, the password is sent correctly
<grendel_> no sasl is uses afaict
<grendel_> s/uses/used/
<grendel_> I'm going to recompile slapd with gcc 4.0, maybe it's the stack protector that gets in the way
<infinity> grendel_: It authenticates fine for me here.
<infinity> grendel_: So I don't think it's the build.
<grendel_> damn
<grendel_> I'm running it on a freshly installed system
<grendel_> and it breaks...
<grendel_> ok, maybe it's some stupidity on my part
<grendel_> what command line are you using?
<infinity> Identical to yours, save the domain (sine I picked a "foo.org")
<infinity> s/sine/since/
<grendel_> I have no idea what gives then
<grendel_> infinity: did you give foo.org as your organization name?
<grendel_> AND the domain name?
<imbrandon> moins all
<infinity> Yeah.
<grendel_> man, I'm baffled
<grendel_> there's one possibility though.... :)
* grendel_ feels he'll feel dumb in a while
<infinity> grendel_: If I mess up the cn or the password, I get what you get, obviously, but here's hoping that's not your problem. ;)
<grendel_> no, it's definitely not :)
<grendel_> unless the password I use gets misencrypted somehow
<infinity> Are you using ldapsearch from edgy as well?  (ie: on the same machine)?
<grendel_> infinity: I supected that too, so I ran ldapsearch with -d10 to see whether the password was fine :)
<grendel_> infinity: yes, the same machine, the same version
<infinity> Oh, obviously the same mahcine, since you didn't specify host in your command line.
<infinity> Duh.
<grendel_> yeah, puzzling
<infinity> Forgive me.  Head cold.  Not smart today.
<grendel_> infinity: there's one possibility, I might have some stray libs laying around
<grendel_> for my devel stuff
<grendel_> I'll check that next
<grendel_> nope, it's not that
<infinity> grendel_: Well, feel free to file a bug anyway, if you can't figure it out, but I'll have to trace it with you another time.  I have too much on the go right now, and not enough intelligence left to do any of it.
<grendel_> infinity: sure thing, thanks man
<grendel_> I will sit on it since I need that for work
<infinity> You sure you're not suffering from reusing an old DB (from a previous install?) with an old password, or something equally OOPStastic?
<grendel_> nope, I'm removing /var/lib/ldap
<grendel_> it's a pure database created by postinst
<grendel_> tried both hdb and bdb
<grendel_> usually putting rootdn/rootpw in slapd.conf used to work
<grendel_> but not this time
<infinity> Bizarre.
<grendel_> yeah
<grendel_> I also noticed that some packages depend on old libldap2
<grendel_> 2.1.30
<grendel_> that shouldn't affect ldap-utils or slapd though
<infinity> s/some/all/
<infinity> We don't build against the new lib.
<grendel_> oh, ok
<grendel_> and now de.archive.ubuntu.com goes down :(
<grendel_> argh, just not my day
<grendel_> infinity: ok, thanks for help, Adam, I'll be splitting now
<grendel_> if I can't solve it, I'll file a bug
<grendel_> l8r
<infinity> pitti: *poke,poke*
<dholbach> infinity: he's at lunch
<infinity> dholbach: LIES.
<infinity> dholbach: He's just avoiding me, isn't he?
<dholbach> infinity: you're seeing things
<infinity> dholbach: Through my tears?  You bet.  He abandoned me!
* Hobbsee drops some icecubes down infinity's back
* Keybuk shivers in sympathy
<infinity> Yeah, I prefer 'em on the front.
* Hobbsee drops more icecubes down Keybuk's back.
<Hobbsee> :P
<dholbach> infinity: You're over-reacting :)
<Hobbsee> seeing as you seem to want them
<infinity> dholbach: Yes, I know. :)
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: why havent you broken everyone's systems yet?
<fabbione> Hobbsee: because we can beat him up to death here
<fabbione> he wil wait monday :)
<Hobbsee> fabbione: hah!  i'll keep that in mind :)
<infinity> Kamion: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/238586
<Hobbsee> fabbione: maybe you need to beat him so that he doesnt do damage on monday?
<Keybuk> fabbione: nobody here will notice because the bandwidth is so bad
<infinity> Kamion: We win.
* Hobbsee shrugs
<fabbione> Hobbsee: nah... he looks too much like a cuddly teaddy bear
<Hobbsee> fabbione: hmmm okay.  i guess i'll have to take your word for it, not being there.
<Kamion> infinity: rock on!
<Keybuk> I'm not sure I like the "cuddly"
<geser> Keybuk: is it possible to sync a package from debian which source name has changed?
<Keybuk> geser: yes, of course; mention it in the sync request so the original source can be removed
<Kamion> obviously (?) it isn't possible to sync a(Debian) -> b(Ubuntu)
<Kamion> has to be a(Debian) -> a(Ubuntu), i.e. once it's synced the package name has to be the same on both sies
<Kamion> sides
<geser> I ask because the source package rhythmbox-applet got renamed to music-applet in debian
<_ion> Yay, cool new stuff in the upstart repo. :-)
<pitti> infinity: pong
<Keybuk> _ion: ie. all of it? :p
<Keybuk> "make"; cp init/bin /sbin; reboot; ... uh-oh
<Keybuk> init/init even
<Keybuk> (ps. don't do that :p)
<Keybuk> (pps. NO, REALLY, DON'T)
<_ion> :-D
<Hobbsee> haha
<_ion> Well, that wouldn't be very difficult to fix. :-)
* Hobbsee would try it, just for kicks, on a spare system, if she had one.
<infinity> pitti: Is python-apport-utils going to be seeded to main, or do you want it in universe?
<pitti> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/edgy/ \o/
<pitti> infinity: in main definitively
<pitti> infinity: I specifically wrote it for usage in ubiquity
<pitti> infinity: (it's something we discussed here at the sprint)
* seb128 hugs pitti
<infinity> pitti: Ahh, cool.  Accepted, then.
* pitti hugs infinity 
<Kamion> I imagine apport depends on it now anyway
<pitti> right, it does
<infinity> Yeah, I didn't go so far as to check the binaries.  Pinging the uploader is less effortl :P
<infinity> s/effortl/effort./
* pitti looks at seb128 and wonders why nautilus uses 100% CPU power
<siretart> Kamion: thank you for your great work on the backports script!
<Kamion> no problem, sorry it took so long
<Kamion> should be exactly as much effort as syncs now
* infinity NEWs the last of the backports.
<infinity> Well, source NEW anyway.  Some will land in binary NEW later.
<Kamion> I'll need to try to persuade the Soyuz team to take the script of course, but later
<Kamion> infinity: oh, thanks
<siretart> Kamion: do you think the script might be of interest for automated backports for http://backports.org?
<infinity> Kamion: Yeah, I think we need an lp_archive alias to do "for i in (all non-devel releases); do q -R $i -Q new info; done"
<infinity> Kamion: Cause I only ever think to look once in a blue moon.
<Kamion> siretart: there's a lot of launchpad-specific stuff in there
<Kamion> siretart: that was the hard bit
<Kamion> siretart: the actual worker bit is just unpack, dch, dpkg-source, dpkg-genchanges - pretty trivial
<siretart> I see.
<infinity> Kamion: Maybe even mailing out new/unapproved status reports for !devel would be handy from time to time.  I dunno.
<Kamion> mm
<pitti> seb128: current langpacks have evolution-2.6 domain :(
<pitti> seb128: so, I'll stick the 2.8 ones in manually
<_ion> Hmm, connection to archive.ubuntu.com timeouts. Anyone else experiencing this?
<slomo_> _ion: yep
<seb128> pitti: thank you
<seb128> pitti: do you want to the mo from my build?
<Kamion> _ion: without certain knowledge, I think it's very slow due to taking all the load of the xserver-xorg-core update
<elmo> I've given it some more bandwidth - that might help
* _ion wonders why fi.archive.u.c and se.archive.u.c point to the same address as archive.u.c now.
<Kamion> _ion: same reason
<_ion> To get the update to people faster? Right, that's good.
<Kamion> _ion: we needed to stop people going to mirrors and getting the broken X
<HiddenWolf> elmo: can't you verify some of the beefy mirrors to see if they got the right version to lighten the load a bit?
<_ion> elmo: Thanks, seems to work better now.
<elmo> HiddenWolf: no
<Hobbsee> gosh.  you guys really do have a shocking connection...
<heno> infinity: around?
<infinity> heno: Ish.
<infinity> heno: 'sup?
<heno> infinity: is there anything important blocking gnome-orca being uploaded to main?
<infinity> heno: Other than the part where it needs to be modified to work, and I don't think TheMuso did that yet?
* infinity checks.
<heno> infinity: it has gotten a new shiny upstream version since then, 0.9
<infinity> Oh, I see.
<heno> TheMuso and I are both very happy with it
<infinity> And the shiny new upstream no longer tries to dlopen a library incorrectly, and actually functions?
<heno> indeed
<infinity> If so, then that was the only blocker.  pitti already approved it.
<heno> cool!
<infinity> At least, I think he did.
<TheMuso> It still dlopens, but upstream are not about to change it
<infinity> TheMuso: Err, kay, but it dlopens the correct file now? :)
<heno> pitti approved it yes
<TheMuso> infinity: Yes, that has been done.
<infinity> TheMuso: Kay, that's all I needed.
<infinity> heno: Then the only thing left is for someone to update the seeds to land it wherever it's meant to belong, and we can promote it.
<heno> infinity: right, it should go in desktop and gnopernicus should be moved from desktop to supported
<heno> Kamion: ^ is that something you can do?
<infinity> heno: If you don't want to do that yourself, find a patsy who isn't heading to bed soon to do it for you. :)
* heno doesn't have core-dev powers
<infinity> Oh, didn't realise.
<Hobbsee> heno: all the more reason to keep it out of main, surely?
<infinity> Yes, Kamion (and pretty much any of us) can do it.
<Keybuk> so, what should the config directory be?
<Keybuk> it's /etc/rc.d at the moment ... should we use something else?
<heno> dholbach__: around? could you perform the seed change above?
<heno> Keybuk: are you talking about Orca?
<infinity> Keybuk: /etc/whend, of course.
<TheMuso> heno: no he isn't.
<heno> ok :)
<infinity> Keybuk: That name needs to live on SOMEWHERE. :)
<Keybuk> infinity: it hasn't been called that for ages
<infinity> Keybuk: Even if it's just a "see also: whend(8)" in the manpage. :)
<jdub> edgy server upgrade going well so far
<jsgotangco> ohhh brave one
<Lathiat> haha im still afraid to upgrade one of my major production servers to dapper
<Lathiat> but i need to at some point
<Lathiat> the i can coast on LTS till i can be bothered to upgrade it again
<Lathiat> (runs breezy atm)
<thom> you were really going to call it whend? (why am i surprised, actually?)
<jdub> i will probably leave my Linode server on dapper
<jdub> i don't run X on it, so... ;-)
<jdub> whend is a rad name
<Lathiat> 7              w qwe qwe 
<jdub> uh oh
<jdub> Errors were encountered while processing: linux-image-2.6.17-6-686 linux-image-686 linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17-6-686 linux-restricted-modules-686 linux-686
<Lathiat> eh hrm excuse me
<jdub> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<jdub> 
<jdub> hmm, that might be a /boot full issue
<Lathiat> heh i started making my /boots a little bigger than i used to
<Lathiat> i used to make them 64-128 but i started doing 256 for that reason
<dholbach__> heno: which change?
<heno> dholbach__: adding gnome-orca to the desktop seed
<dholbach__> heno: and drop gnopernicus?
<heno> dholbach__: and then moving gnopernicus to supported, yes
<dholbach__> heno: ok
<heno> I guess dropping it from main is a discussion for later
<heno> dholbach__: thanks!
<heno> Lot's of eager testers will be very glad!
<dholbach__> it will take a while
<heno> ok, np
<dholbach__> heno: it went through main inclusion queue?
<infinity> dholbach__: I'll move it to main right now, if you're doing the seeds.
<dholbach__> heno:  I mean gnome-orca. Was it reviewed?
<infinity> dholbach__: Once it's moved (next publisher run), you should be okay to update a new -meta, if you like.
<elmo> "83 days"?  I wonder how many kernel root security holes that machine had
<infinity> dholbach__: And yes, pitti reviewed and approved it, it was blocking on my objection, which I've lifted.
<dholbach__> ok
<Keybuk> elmo: jdub is playing an uptime dick size war, apparenty
<dholbach__> infinity: commited
<heno> dholbach__: thanks!
* infinity changes an override on a binary in queue/accepted, and feels a bit dirty.
<infinity> dholbach__: Okay.  Should be promoted fully and published in about 60 mins.
<infinity> dholbach__: In theory, the next germinate rnu after that should provide you with output that makes -meta DTRT.
* dholbach__ hugs infinity
<jdub> ahr!
<jdub> so on my md/raid1 machine
<Lathiat> booting with UUID= broke?
<jdub> the root uuid migration bits didn't work
<Lathiat> still, hrm
<infinity> I'm so shocker, I nearly hurt myself with my lack of reaction.
<infinity> s/shocker/shocked/
<Keybuk> jdub: fabbione is over there
<fabbione> no i am not
<Keybuk> he promised me this week that things like that "would just work"
<fabbione> i said LVM
<Keybuk> if they don't, he LIED to me, and I am hurt
<fabbione> jdub: do you have / on raid or lvm?
<Keybuk> I asked about all fabbione filesystems
<jdub> fabbione: boring old md raid1
<jdub> hrm, and /tmp wasn't o+t for some reason
<fabbione> jdub: can you check /proc/mdstats and/or cat /proc/partitions
<fabbione> Keybuk: i think we forgot to talk about raid actually.. we did talk only about LVM/EVMS/devmapper
<Keybuk> I assumed we had
<fabbione> iirc the last time we did talk about raid was here on IRC
<jdub> fabbione: what am i looking for (all looks normal)?
<Keybuk> when we leave the subject of an ordinary block device with an ordinary filesystem on it, to me, it's a bit like listening to german
<Keybuk> blah blahkdj ksdjfdks fjskfjk dsf kdsfsdj filesystem lsdjfsdfkdjfk sdfkjsdfj sdfjsf block device dfsf sdfsf dfsdf kernel panic
<fabbione> jdub: you are looking at your /dev/hdaX changed into /dev/sdaX something MORE OR LESS
<Keybuk> fabbione: there's no reason it should have done that, unless he has one of the odd kernel drivers
<fabbione> jdub: and then we try to start the raid manualy
<fabbione> Keybuk: if that's the case.... it's hw bug
<jdub> fabbione: ah right, no, using sd[ab]  still (as i've been using sata_sil)
<fabbione> is the module loaded?
<fabbione> are the disks there?
<fabbione> mdrun -a
<fabbione> to try to restart the raid?
<fabbione> or gimme a serial console to that crap and i will fix it
<jdub> the UUID in menu.lst is the same as /dev/md1 (which is /)
<Keybuk> /sbin/vol_id /dev/md1
<jdub> fabbione: as far as reporting goes, i'm told that the two raid devices are up and running before it sits there 'waiting for root filesystem'
<infinity> Could just be an event ordeing issue, since /dev/md1 isn't anyhting useful until after mdrun happens.
<jdub> Keybuk: looks all ok here
<Keybuk> jdub: you have a /dev/disk/by-uuid that matches the UUID and is a symlink to /dev/md1 ?
<fabbione> infinity: raid run before initramf attempts to mount /
<jdub> Keybuk: yeah
<fabbione> otherwise none of my retarded installs would boot
<Keybuk> jdub: *shrug* then what's it looping and looking for? :p
<jdub> Keybuk: (note that this is after i've booted with root=/dev/md1)
<infinity> fabbione: Yeah, I was thinking more the above (/dev/disk/etc..), but that appears to be fine.
<Keybuk> jdub: could you boot it with break=mount on the kernel command line and check that
<infinity> jdub: Some of this debugging in the busted initramfs would be helpful.
<jdub> Keybuk: righto
<Keybuk> it could be that mdrun doesn't create /dev/md1 until after udev has run AND doesn't cause the kernel to send a uevent
<Keybuk> therefore you won't have the /dev/disk/by-uuid for it
<infinity> That sounds plausible.  What would be the fix?
<Keybuk> making md not suck and play nice with the modern kernel? :p
<infinity> Keybuk: Is there a way to prod udev from the md script to walk devices for UUIDs again?
<infinity> Keybuk: Well, yeah, or fix the kernel driver.  But I meant "is there aplausible user-space solution?"
<Keybuk> echo -n add > /sys/block/md1/uevent
<infinity> Right.  That seems easy enough.  Ish.
<Keybuk> though it'd be odd for that to exist, and udev not to have noticed
<fabbione> it's udev bug
<fabbione> :)
<Keybuk> it could be possible that when /dev/md1 is created, it doesn't have a valid filesystem on it
<Keybuk> so vol_id fails to find a uuid
<Keybuk> which would explain why the symlink was missing
<Keybuk> in which case it's md's responsibility to send the uevent again
<Keybuk> which we can hack with that echo again
<windub> ahr
<windub> okay
<windub> so /dev/disks/by-uuid doesn't contain the / uuid
<windub> running mdrun -a results in:
<windub> cat: /proc/mdstat: No such file or directory
<windub> then four lines of mdadm spew
<StevenK> Is the raid module loaded at all?
<windub> nup
<windub> Keybuk, fabbione: anything further i can do for you?
<Keybuk> windub: what happens if you run  echo -n add > /sys/block/md1/uevent
<windub> cannot create ... directory nonexistent
<Keybuk> err ... find /sys -name md1
<fabbione> if there is no mdstat, mostlikely none of the raid modules have even been loaded
<windub> Keybuk: not found. lack of raid / mdstat would impact that, surely?
<fabbione> windub: try to modprobe raid1
<fabbione> and check in cat /proc/modules if it is even loaded
<fabbione> that should create mdstat
<fabbione> next cat /proc/.partitions and make sure the disks have been found
<fabbione> next mdrun -a
<fabbione> check mdstat again to see if the raids are there
<fabbione> next check UUID
<windub> raid1 loaded, disks have been found
<Keybuk> did loading that module cause /dev/disk/by-uuid to appaer
<windub> hrm
<windub> loading raid1 didn't, no
<windub> and mdrun -a doesn't have that error, but still spews:
<windub> mdadm: --auto=yes requires a 'standard' md device name, not /dev/md?
<windub> four times
<windub> but there's nothing listed in mdstat yet
<Kamion> /dev/md1 should count as "standard"
<Kamion> (it's not mdadm's default - that's /dev/md/1 - but is_standard() in mdadm should return true for it)
* windub wonders if it's referring to /dev/md? literally
<Kamion> yes
<Kamion> ./mdopen.c:                     fprintf(stderr, Name ": --auto=yes requires a 'standard' md device name, not %s\n", dev);
<windub> Keybuk, fabbione: anything else i can do? i can test stuff again later, but kinda need to get this back up for the moment
<fabbione> windub: no sorry.. no idea without having console
<Keybuk> windub: at this point, it just sounds like a raid problem to me
<Keybuk> of all the things to make difficult for yourself, you pick your root filesystem <g>
<windub> i make /boot easy so / can be whatever
<fabbione> it might be that mdrun in initramfs does some extra checks like root=/
<fabbione> and UUID just confuses the script 
<fabbione> i can't really see any other reason why root=/dev/md1 would work otherwise
<simira> mvo: it only failed to open once now, with http://pastebin.com/774845
<mvo> simira: run as user or as root?
<mvo> looks like user :)
<simira> mvo: opened from systray, but I gave up password the first time (when it failed)
<simira> mvo: but yes, I was asked for password trying to install
<AnAnt> can anyone help me in packaging a library ?
<simira> try ubuntu-motu or something?
<desrt> AnAnt; did you read the debian new maintainer guide?
<AnAnt> simira: tried there
<AnAnt> desrt: not sure if I read that
<desrt> AnAnt; it's mostly focused on packaging binary programs but would definitely help you
<desrt> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<AnAnt> I did package binary programs before
<AnAnt> my problem is with a library
<AnAnt> it does not install properly
<desrt> afaik, dealing with libraries is a matter of adding some extra dh_ rule to make sure a rule to run ldconfig gets written into the postinst script
<AnAnt> well, that's not the problem I've got
* desrt has really only packaged binaries too :)
<desrt> what's the problem though?  it never hurts to just ask things (although you would really be much better to "just ask" in #-motu)
<AnAnt> well, I neither get headers in the fsplib-dev, nor do I get the libs installed in the fsplib0 packages
<AnAnt> dunno why
<AnAnt> I asked in motu
<desrt> oh.  so it's a problem with multiple target .deb's?
<desrt> k.  for each target deb you need to make sure a directory exists in debian/ at the end of the build with all the files you want to land in that .deb
<desrt> so if you have a libfoo-dev package you need files in debian/libfoo-dev/usr/include/.... 
<AnAnt> how ?
<desrt> you need to have rules to make sure that happens
<AnAnt> yes, that's what I dunno
<AnAnt> how can I install headers ONLY in the libfoo-dev
<desrt> well, you can either do it yourself or figure out how cdbs or whatever does it for you
<AnAnt> and libs only in libfoo0
<desrt> or look at another package
<desrt> that's really the best way... find a small library and look at it
<AnAnt> k
<desrt> best of luck
* desrt off to eat now
<moe_evil> hi
<moe_evil> anyone con helpme with partman?
<moe_evil>  I'm trying to use an existing partition. I create the files necesaries in the dev dir, but doesn't work
<simira> moe_evil: please read topic and have a try on #ubuntu
<AnAnt> what is the smallest library (in size) in Ubuntu ?
<Spads> ls -lt /usr/lib 
<Keybuk> -lS
<Spads> er yes
<Spads> sorry
<Spads> t is mtime
<Keybuk> and that'll just tell you lots of symlinks
<Keybuk> zsh -c "ls -lS /usr/lib/*(.)"
<Keybuk> in fact
<Keybuk> zsh -c "ls -lS /usr/lib/*.so.*(.)"
<Spads> ls -lS /usr/lib | grep -v -- '->'
<Spads> hmm, many of those tiny ones are linker scripts on my box
<Keybuk> most
<AnAnt> k, thanks
<bddebian> Morning folks
<moe_evil> sorry :)
<bddebian> Keybuk: I know you are busy and sorry to bother you but do you think you will get a chance to hit sync requests any time soon?
<Keybuk> nope
<Keybuk> however we'll be instigating some new procedures next week
<bddebian> Nice
<Keybuk> the distro team are all in Wiesbaden this week, so normal operation is...delayed ;)
<Keybuk> unless there's a critical bug or two you need syncing?
<bddebian> No no, just trying to keep up
<bddebian> Some days I'm not even sure why I bother. :-(
<Keybuk> because you love it
<Keybuk> it thrills you to your free software loving core!
<Keybuk> oh dear, I appear to be channelling jdub
<bddebian> Hah
<bddebian> I do love it but I feel more like a nuisance than a help most of the time
* azeem hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> :-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: you're far from a nuisance, dont worry :)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: dont you try to steal my title :P
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Not a chance, I just try to steal your karma ;-P
<Hobbsee> bddebian: hah
<Hobbsee> bddebian: as long as you dont go trying to steal my title of bitchy pscyopath, you'll be okay.
<bddebian> Hobbsee: :-)
<zyga> hello
<bddebian> Hello zyga
<pitti> yay fresh edgy language packs!
<pitti> please feel invited to deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/edgy/ ./  and give feedback
<Keybuk> pitti: I installed my language pack and all the text was still in English
<Keybuk> admittedly *better* English ...
<Keybuk> except for "Wastebasket"
<Keybuk> one day I'm going to go rename that to "Rubbish Bin"
<Keybuk> in fact, I shall do that now
<Kamion> "Round Filing Cabinet"
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> That's "Circular File"
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee would just name it trashcan or something.
<Hobbsee> so then i could say...
* Hobbsee trashcans Keybuk 
<Kamion> not in en_GB :)
<zyga> Keybuk: isn't that a trash applet now?
<sbalneav> Who here's at the sprint?  Could someone poke ogra for me and tell him sbalneav wants him?
<Hobbsee> sbalneav: Keybuk, Kamion, dholbach and the like
<Hobbsee> pitti: too
<sbalneav> Someone wad up a sheet of A4, and huck it ad ogra :)
<sbalneav> s/ad/at/
<Hobbsee> sbalneav: i would, but i dotn have that good an aim :P
<Hobbsee> sbalneav: a large brick or something might be a touch more effective though
<LarstiQ> laptops have a large hitting area too.
<sbalneav> Nah, I want to protect that big juicy brain of his.
<Hobbsee> LarstiQ: hehe.  point.
<sbalneav> I'm looking for attention, not contusions. :)
<Hobbsee> LarstiQ: if you get the right types, they can catch fire too!
<LarstiQ> Hobbsee: hehe :)
<Hobbsee> must be time for bed, at 2am.  night all!
<zul> toodles
<bddebian> Heya seb128
<seb128> hi bddebian
<bddebian> seb128: Will you kill me if I bug you some more? :-)
<seb128> no ;)
<bddebian> seb128: I was trying to have diacanvas2's setup.py not use desextras from pygobject but it got kind of ugly.  Is that the preferred route or would it be better to get upstream to work on desextras.py?
<slomo> seb128: all parts of main except kde stuff work perfect with new dbus, very few need a trivial patch, most are just rebuilds :)
<seb128> bddebian: upstream is not going to work on that right so apparently and you can't force them to work on it if they don't want
<bddebian> Or better yet, is there something that replaces dsextras
<seb128> slomo: rock on!
<seb128> bddebian: no idea
<seb128> bddebian: maybe open a bug on bugzilla.gnome against pygobject
<Riddell> slomo: what's up with kde and new dbus?
<slomo> Riddell: nothing, i just didn't test yet whether it works or not :) but i see no reason why it shouldn't
<Riddell> slomo: need me to test?
<slomo> Riddell: yes, would be nice :) it's k3b, kdegames, kdebase, knetworkmanager that needs to be tested... i'll upload the new stuff for you in some minutes
<slomo> or you on x86?
<Riddell> slomo: I am
<Riddell> slomo: we're about to leave for dinner, /msg me the URL and I'll get it tomorrow morning
<slomo> Riddell: ok, will do... thanks :) and have a nice dinner
<welshbyte> just reading http://www.ubuntu.com/FixForUpgradeIssue ... shouldn't the first step say ctrl + alt + f1 rather than just alt + f1 ? that might confuse some people
<infinity> welshbyte: If X isn't working, Alt-F1 is good enough.  If it is working, you hardly need the instructions, do you?
<tepsipakki> how come the /etc/debian_version in dapper is "testing/unstable" ?-)
<_ion> tepsipakki: Look at /etc/lsb-release instead. :-)
<infinity> tepsipakki: It is in every Ubuntu release.  We rely on lsb_release to give proper info, we have /etc/debian_version just to keep 2rd party scripts and such happu.
<infinity> s/2rd/3rd/
<infinity> s/happu/happy/ too.  I wish I could sleep and reset my fingers.
<welshbyte> oh yeah, so it is *blush*
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: pong
<jsgotangco> err ill just pm you in jabber
<tepsipakki> _ion,infinity: righto :)
<Tuxist> hi
<Tuxist> is a kde developer here
<LaserJock> Tuxist: try kubuntu-devel maybe
<Tuxist> xes
<Zdra> thanks to the new crash report system, when I get a simple app crash the system completly freeze for 1seconde or 2... 
<Zdra> I think that's the time to get the core dump
* Zdra don't like the idea of have 100% CPU usage, disk writing and musique stoping for 2seconds when an application simply segfault
<siretart> BenC: around?
<zul> siretart: is there something i can help you with?
<siretart> zul: yes, bug #57146
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57146 in wpasupplicant "[prism2.5]  doesn't associate" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57146
<siretart> zul: I believe this is a regression in the kernel
<BenC> siretart: sort of
<siretart> zul: do you kernel guys agree to reassign it to linux-source-2.6.17?
<zul> gimme a sec
<siretart> the other possibility could be that the bug could be in the 0.5 branch of wpasupplicant. But I don't really beleive this, since we have that branch since months in debian unstable/testing, and we got quite a few bugs about that new package, but nobody mentioned problems with hostap and wpasupplicant 0.5
<siretart> would be of course quite funny, since wpasupplicant and hostap share the same upstream
<zul> yeah you might want to re-assign it to us
<siretart> allright
<zul> whats one more bug ;)
<fdoving> is it intentional that *.archives.ubuntu.com goes to uk.archives? 
<Nafallo> fdoving: it doesn't.
<fdoving> Nafallo: does here.
<Nafallo> fdoving: se.archive.ubuntu.com try that :-)
<fdoving> se.archive.ubuntu.com has address 82.211.81.182
<fdoving> fi.archive.ubuntu.com has address 82.211.81.182
<fdoving> and so on.
<Nafallo> ehh...
<Burgwork> fdoving, yes
<Nafallo> what did they do now :-P
<Treenaks> yes, see www.ubuntu.com
<Burgwork> the creation of teh country specific archives is about ease of later seperation
<Treenaks> becaue of the X breakage, afaik
<fdoving> Burgwork: ok. just ckecing :)
<Treenaks> Burgwork: they used to point to mirrors, but because the X fix hadn't been synced to all mirrors yet, that was disabled, according to the wiki
<Burgwork> Treenaks, oh, that too
<Burgwork> forgot about that, don't have any dapper boxes
<Nafallo> dooh.
* Nafallo should just turn his deb-line directly to ftp.acc.umu.se :-P
* fdoving too.
<Treenaks> Burgwork: no dapper boxes? you're either brave, or still on breezy :)
<Burgwork> fdoving, however, there are country specific archives that point to the uk mirror
<Burgwork> Treenaks, my server is breezy, desktop and laptop are edgy
<Burgwork> not gotten around to upgrading my server yet
<Nafallo> all my servers is 6.06.1 and doesn't run X ;-)
<Treenaks> Nafallo: same for me :)
<Nafallo> all my clients is on edgy :-)
<Nafallo> so not problems for me ;-)
<fdoving> all my servers downloads updates faster from no/se/fi than from uk. :)
<Nafallo> anyway, this is becoming way of topic :-P
<ivoks> fdoving: that's normal
<fdoving> ivoks: i'm in norway, so yes. :)
<ivoks> fdoving: we have a situation in croatia where link to sweden is faster than a link to a neighbour next door :/
<fdoving> ivoks: hm.. that's interessting routing. :)
<ivoks> fdoving: yup, t-com isn't part of "national network", so routing from other providers goes like this "croatia -> hungary -> slovenia -> italy -> austria -> germany and back" :)
<Tuxist> imbrandon: i have been modfiet your packages with libmtp support, helix engine, nfs and smb support
<Tuxist> ftp://tuxist.de/edgy/
<fdoving> ivoks: as long as you're aware of it it's not a big problem i guess? anyway.. a bit offtopic for this channel :)
<Tuxist> nvidia driver 1.0-8774 is out with xorg7.1 support juhu
<ivoks> great
<pygi> ivoks, you and your t-com :)
<pygi> go to medjimurje, use xDSL :)
<ivoks> pygi: HSDPA is my rush these days (but we are offtopic)
<ivoks> ok, sorry, i know it's offtopic, but it's kind of funny and it makes you think
<ivoks> person A: I'm lumberjack
<ivoks> person B: I'm carpenter
<ivoks> what's in common? Yes, they work with wood, but else?
<ivoks> they are both on #ubuntu-devel
<lfittl> elmo: ping
<tuxi> hi
<_ion> Argh.
<pygi> sivang, poke?
<pygi> oops, forgot, nvm sivang :)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
#ubuntu-devel 2006-08-25
<bluefoxicy> I am lolling at this.
<bluefoxicy> my kernel is getting pissed off
<bluefoxicy> I keep doing dd if=/bin/cat of=/dev/{zero,null}
<bluefoxicy> and it has random processes crash or random oopses happen as a reaction.
<HrdwrBoB> /dev/zero isn't for writing to
<bluefoxicy> I noticed!  :D
<bluefoxicy> aww now dd just segfaults
<Fujitsu> It really shouldn't do that...
<Fujitsu> You're not meant to write to it, but it really shouldn't crash.
<keescook> the kernel is allergic to /bin/cats, I guess.
<mjg59> It's a broken kernel of some description
<bluefoxicy> I filed a bug, you figure it out.
* Fujitsu dds urandom to /dev/zero.
<bluefoxicy> I think it might take more than that
<Fujitsu> Not doing much, nor does cat.
<bluefoxicy> mine crashed wine
<bluefoxicy> the dd seemed to be the trigger; a second one (pointed at /dev/null) caused another oops but further just segfault dd
<mjg59> bluefoxicy: The oopses would be interesting
<mjg59> I suspect that something else has blown up at some earlier point
<mjg59> Whose kernel is this, and are you running any local patches?
<bluefoxicy> bug 57642 mjg
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57642 in linux-source-2.6.17 "kernel bug, you figure it out." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57642
<Fujitsu> Sounds like a nasty kernel bug...
<bluefoxicy> and full call trace I might add.
<mjg59> That's an utterly implausible failure
<mjg59> Looks like you've got heavy memory corruption
<bluefoxicy> probably.
<mjg59> This is entirely the kernel we ship?
<mjg59> No local patches at all?
<bluefoxicy> i'm FAR too lazy to roll my own
<bluefoxicy> so yes it's yours :)
<Fujitsu> Dud RAM?
<bluefoxicy> Fujitsu:  curious, did dd segfault at all?
<Fujitsu> No.
<mjg59> Utterly unreproducible here
<bluefoxicy> Fujitsu:  I'm actually pretty stable
<Fujitsu> Not at all.
<Fujitsu> Run a memtest lately, bluefoxicy?
<bluefoxicy> besides dd being a dumbass
<bluefoxicy> no, but I will on next reboot.
<Fujitsu> OK, good...
* bluefoxicy hits the repos for an update first.
<Fujitsu> 'cause I've just tried it on three machines, nothing happens.
<bluefoxicy> Fujitsu:  i'm thinking something else caused the problem and the kernel just freaked out at dd at random
<bluefoxicy> could have been wine
<Fujitsu> Corrupting bits of kernel memory? I doubt it.
<HrdwrBoB> while true;do sudo dd if=/bin/cat of=/dev/zero bs=1 count=512; done did nothing here
<Fujitsu> Same, that's similar to what I did.
* bluefoxicy shrugs
<bluefoxicy> dmesg | grep BUG
<zul> i think its just memory corruption
<bluefoxicy> it probably is, but the question is is it programmatic and if so why
<zul> because you did something weird?
<bluefoxicy> well, I did nothing at kernel level
<crimsun> bluefoxicy: it would be considerably more helpful when you use descriptive summaries instead of "kernel bug, you figure it out."
<bluefoxicy> crimsun:  it would definitely be more helpful; however that's all I got
<bluefoxicy> it's inobvious what the problem is and the kernel basically said exactly that
<keescook> One possible summary could be "kernel oops while using dd on /dev/zero"
<bluefoxicy> 20% done with updates, will reboot in a few minutes to pummel memory
<bluefoxicy> keescook:  I'm pretty sure it's not a /dev/zero bug
<bluefoxicy> especially since nobody else can trigger it that way
<Fujitsu> But it's a start.
<bluefoxicy> I did put that at the end of the report though.
<azeem> bluefoxicy: maybe you're a special kind of zero
<bluefoxicy> a super zero?
<Fujitsu> But in the summary is probably a better idea, as people look at the summary first.
<HrdwrBoB> that being the purpose of a summary
<HrdwrBoB> summary: "see description for details" isn't a summary
<bluefoxicy> goin' down
<bddebian> Heya folks
<bluefoxicy> memtest did a full pass, says I'm fine
<bddebian> That's debatable :-)
<bluefoxicy> YES!
<bluefoxicy> Elena says she'll try to get the pie patches submitted for inclusion in gdb mainline!
<nags> Hi
<nags> how do I configure domain name in Breezy ?
<nags> my IP address is obtained from a DHCP server (LAN)
<Sp4rKy> /etc/hosts ?
<nags> but it doesn't get the host name
* nags checking
<nags> Sp4rKy, but with dynamic IP how can I set the host name ? I mean in /ect/hosts we need to specify the IP address also, right ?
<Sp4rKy> i'm not sure
<nags> hmmm
<nags> can somebody help me ?
<Sp4rKy> try setting youhostname with 127.0.0.1 ip on the same line
<infinity> 127.0.0.1 localhost
<infinity> 127.0.1.1 cthulhu.0c3.net cthulhu
<infinity> (for example)
<nags> Sp4rKy, ya tried, but no luck
<Sp4rKy> &:/
<gnux123> yes
<nags> infinity, 127.0.1.1 ? anyways let me try...
<infinity> nags: If you just mean you want the system to have the correct hostname (ie: according to the kernel), that goes in /etc/hostname (but that's just the short host name, not the FQDN)
<nags> infinity, okay
<nags> infinity, even after setting the host name is not resolvable...
<infinity> nags: If you mean you want domain resolution to work, but DHCP isn't sending you a useful domain name, try editing /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf to add sometihng like: append domain-name " 0c3.net";
<nags> infinity, let me try it now..
<infinity> (or: s/append/supersede/, if you don't want the domain name sent by your ISP to be used at all)
<nags> infinity, okay
<nags> infinity, I could see something like this #send host-name "andare.fugue.com";
<nags> infinity, shall I make it to my host name ?
<infinity> That sends a hostname to the DHCP server, not the other way around.
<infinity> Useful if you have a DHCP server that asiigns IPs based on hostname.
<nags> infinity, ah ! okay
<nags> infinity, I get something like this '<null: Host name lookup failure'
<nags> I get nags.blr.dell.com does not exist (Authoritative answer)
<infinity> Err, using what?
<infinity> Utilities like "host" or "nslookup" will be querying your DNS server.  No amount of messing on your local machine will magically get a DNS record in your DNS server.
<nags> infinity, host
<infinity> Yeah, "host" does a DNS query.  It's not a local resolver lookup.
<nags> imbrandon, okay
<infinity> And at this point, I think we've wandered so far into "off-topic support" that if you have further questions, you should probably take it to #ubuntu
<nags> ah ! sorry tab filling
<nags> infinity, :)
* imbrandon looks up
<nags> imbrandon, apologize, in tab filling I just typed i <tab> <enter>
<imbrandon> heh np ;)
<imbrandon> moins infinity
<imbrandon> ;)
<Keybuk> "Who maintains RPM?" ... LWN has become The Register!
<lifeless> Keybuk: pong
<Keybuk> lifeless: I ping'd ?
<lifeless> you wanted to arrange a time to chat
<lifeless> now is good for me
<Keybuk> can it wait until I've had more coffee
<Keybuk> like, err, some
<lifeless> sure. I've got about a 60minute window
<Keybuk> hopefully Mark won't pop in again and do his "guys, can you close your laptops" thing again
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: what did he want we he asked you to close your laptops?
<lifeless> attention
<Burgundavia> lifeless: umm, isn't that what he pays over 100 people for?
* Keybuk cries
<Keybuk> the udev rules file format changed again
<lifeless> over 100 ?
<Burgundavia> lifeless: canonical + hbd + foundation
<gnux123> hbd?
<lifeless> they are very different things
<Burgundavia> yes, but they are all extensions of Mark
<lifeless> mmm, I'm not!. I'm an individual.
<Burgundavia> lifeless: not since you have been sucked into the Canonical mothership ;)
<StoneTable> hey Burgundavia 
<jsgotangco> haha
<Burgundavia> StoneTable: greetings adam
<StoneTable> Recovered from san fran?
<Burgundavia> mostly
<StoneTable> The jet lag killed me
<Burgundavia> apparently I allowed myself to get video taped there
<Burgundavia> check the top of ubuntuvideo
<StoneTable> hah, yeah
<StoneTable> nice
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: heh yea i've eather gonna have to come to ubucon next year and/or "edumicate" you on kubuntu ;)
<imbrandon> either* jez
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: why is that?
<imbrandon> just teasin you about the lack of kubuntu info when someone ask about adept ;)
<Burgundavia> right
<imbrandon> thats all , just rasin ya a bit ;)
<Burgundavia> that KDE guy was the worst
<Burgundavia> he grilled me later on KDE support
<Burgundavia> grilled Jane on it
<imbrandon> lol
<Burgundavia> he was very agressive about it. As if, if we answered wrong, he was going to be very annoyed
<imbrandon> about what ? just support questions ? 
<Burgundavia> how much does Ubuntu/Canonical support KDE
<imbrandon> hahah yea i hate that
<Burgundavia> they he got poor Chris Kenyon, who has only used Linux for 3 months
<imbrandon> heh yea i'm definately gonna have to come be the token kde guy next year ( since Riddell most likely wont make it to the US );)
<imbrandon> heh
<StoneTable> He stood up during whiprush's talk and started questioning the ltsp guys
<imbrandon> damn thats rude
<StoneTable> They finally told him to shut up and sit down
<imbrandon> i only watched the first 10 minutes or so, i'll catch the rest later
<imbrandon> looks like it was a great talk over all though
<imbrandon> other than obvious idiots ;)
<Burgundavia> it is too bad, because all he did was give KDE a bad name
<imbrandon> very true
<Burgundavia> right near the end is when we asks chris about KDE support
<imbrandon> ;P chris == ?
<imbrandon> i must not know him very well
<imbrandon> is he the guy on the ubuntuos podcast >?
<Burgundavia> chris kenyon, don't know if he hangs out on irc. Canonicals marketing guy
<Burgundavia> great people, but zero Linux expereince
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> heh ;)
<gnux123> heh
<imbrandon> and people make that mistake alot asking devs about marketing or marketing about tech stuff and expect a great answer
<gnux123> Then why did they hire Chris?
<Burgundavia> because you hire good people and then train them
<Burgundavia> Linux is a skill you can learn
<Burgundavia> being a good marketing person is not'
<imbrandon> gnux123: you dont have to be an expert tech to be a good marketing guy , i doubt the windows marketing team can code c++ ( i'm sure there are exceptions but overall )
<gnux123> Thankz for the info
<Burgundavia> for instance, in my office of all sales and marketing, we have 1 linux guy (that would be me), 1 ex linux guy and 3 complete neophytes
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: exactly there is a diffrence between a learned skill and a natual ability , marketing is more the natural thing moreso
<Burgundavia> indeed
<imbrandon> natural*
<imbrandon> now dont get me wrong a natural can always "learn" his skill better but you know what i mean
<jdub> you guys are talking about "marketing" as if it's one thing, a single skill
<imbrandon> looks like the world is wakin up, moins seb128 jdub dholbach mdz
<imbrandon> jdub: true , it is MANY facets
<mdz> wireless network has awakened
<HrdwrBoB> Burgundavia: I disagree
<HrdwrBoB> the ability to use a computer maybe
<Burgundavia> HrdwrBoB: we will have to disagree another time, because I am about to crash and the canonical people kind of need this channel to do minor things like develop Ubuntu
<HrdwrBoB> yeah
<seb128> hi imbrandon jdub
<jdub> hey seb128 
* jdub hugs seb128 
* seb128 hugs jdub
<jdub> seb128: how's wiesbaden hackery?
<seb128> good
<pitti> hey jdub 
<seb128> dholbach forgot to put the alarm clock this morning
<ivoks> :)
<seb128> but mdz phoned us, so that's alright ;)
<pitti> surprising that you were only 9 minutes left
<pitti> ah
<jdub> lucky
<jdub> that nine am smackdown sizzles ;)
<seb128> no need of a clock when you have mdz around apparently ;)
<Keybuk> jdub: 11:30am sharp
<mdz> when I call, you are already TOO LATE.
<seb128> jdub: out of that pretty good
<seb128> DOH
<Keybuk> seb128: ah, that explains why your t-shirt is on back to front
<dholbach> seb128: I *put* it, I just seem to have turned it off while sleeping again
<Keybuk> ...what's funny is you checked
<dholbach> Keybuk: you have too much time... too much time to make fun of seb128
<jdub> Keybuk: wiesbaden is 11:30am sharp?! things going soft now?
<pitti> jdub: rather, brains going liquid
<Keybuk> jdub: mdz was apparently losing confidence that he'd be up himself as the night got later
<Keybuk> ssh
<Keybuk> he's here
<Keybuk> o/~ I'm going to kill Kay Sievers
<seb128> jdub: those german people have "schnaps" ... doesn't make easy to wake up before 9am
<Burgundavia> but did you have a transexual for mdz to sing with?
<mvo> there is really good schnaps in germany, thats for sure!
<StoneTable> I think mdz had the better voice, tho
<pitti> jdub: seb needed to catch up from last conference's Schnaps deprivation
* jdub had a small taste of butterscotch schnaps a few nights ago, sent brain reeling back to theatre in high school and university. scary flashbacks.
<imbrandon> ohh jdub OT i was gonna tell you i grabed your mugshot packages and updated it to the latest version and compiled debs for dapper/edgy if your interested 
<jdub> imbrandon: cool
<imbrandon> jdub: http://www.imbrandon.com/packages/pool/edgy/extras/    s/edgy/dapper/g if you wanna grab it 
<jdub> imbrandon: mail me a deb-src line whenever you have the oppportunity
<imbrandon> kk will do
<imbrandon> jdub@ubuntu.com or ......
<jdub> jeff.waugh
<jdub> maybe jdub works too
<dholbach> imbrandon: upload to the archive! :)
<jdub> i dunno
<jdub> dholbach: it's kind of not useful in the archive
<dholbach> jdub: aha?
<imbrandon> dholbach: you realy need an mugshot invite
<imbrandon> to actualy use it
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> I never uinderstood mugshot anyway
<dholbach> 'There are 137 direct members of the "Ubuntu BugSquad" team'!
<dholbach> sfllaw: ^
<jdub> dholbach: the client is updated often enough that having an old version shipping in edgy would be kind of bong
<imbrandon> jdub: sent, should arrive any min
<jdub> thanks
<imbrandon> yea if they ever stableize it ( as in not change ever few weeks heh ) then it might be ok to upload ;)
<imbrandon> dholbach: ^
<Hobbsee> hey all
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon 
<imbrandon> amarok uped to archive Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yay :)
<Hobbsee> it even works now, too
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: have you requested backports, etc, for it yet?
<imbrandon> it cant be backported just yet, becouse of libvisual and ummm one more lib
<imbrandon> libtinepimp3
<imbrandon> tunepimp3*
<imbrandon> but i'll check it out later today when riddell wakes and see if we can get all 3 backported since those are trivial libs only amarok uses
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: tru ehtat.
<Keybuk> sladen:
<Keybuk> http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/gimliair.jpg
<Keybuk> http://www.wadenelson.com/gimli.html
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: been there, lived there, really not much to see
<sivang> morning
<Keybuk> Burgundavia: hmm?
<pitti> hi sivang 
<Riddell> imbrandon: hmm?
* sivang hugs pitti 
* Hobbsee waves to sivang and pitti 
<Hobbsee> (and Riddell )
<pitti> hi Hobbsee 
<sivang> hey Hobbsee !
<sivang> and Riddell 
<imbrandon> heya Riddell
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: I have lived in Gimli and been to that airport. It is as truly desolate as it is made out to be
<Keybuk> Burgundavia: right, but that wasn't what the links were about
<sladen> Kamion: what were those success/failure rate for xorg...10.3 on the laptops here?
<sladen> Burgundavia: ahhh, much like "Hahn".  30km through rolling countryside to the nearest railway station
<Mithrandir> sladen: about 50/50 on the machines mdz_ tested, iirc.
<sladen> Mithrandir: ta.  Would be handy to say 6 passed, 7 failed if anyone remembers better
<Keybuk> so, err, where *does* the TERM variable come from?
<Keybuk> I have a nasty feeling the only reason it happens to get set with sysvinit is that /bin/sh does it
<Keybuk> and that /etc/init.d/rc is written in shell
<Keybuk> actually, no, that wouldn't explain why it doesn't get set for upstart
<Keybuk> maybe the kernel sets it
<sladen> Keybuk: I thought you passed the terminal type to getty explictly
<Keybuk> need to reboot with init=/usr/bin/env and see what's in that
<sladen> Keybuk: eg.  grep '^.*T.*vt100' /etc/inittab 
<ivoks> Keybuk: :)
<ivoks> Keybuk: that's my bug report
<sladen> keybuk: [term]    The  value  to  be  used for the TERM environment variable. This overrides whatever init(8) may have set,
<Kamion> sladen: 6/9 failures
<Keybuk> sladen: those are just for serial lines
<Keybuk> I suspect it just inherits the default variable from the kernel
* sladen torments Keybuk 
<sladen> Keybuk: the serial lines probably have to overide whatever the compile default is
<Mithrandir> pitti: apport doesn't seem to preserve command line arguments when respawning applications, is that right?
<sladen> tollef: you rock :)
<Kamion> Gloubiboulga: could you seed xfce4-notes-plugin and xfce4-smartbookmarks-plugin somewhere?
<Kamion> er smartbookmark
<sladen> Kamion: 6 failure, 3 success
<Mithrandir> sladen: about the libx11 thingy or something else?
<sladen> Mithrandir: yup, that  (although you rock anyway, of course :)
<Mithrandir> sladen: thanks. :-.)
<Guf0> Hi, just a simple question: I have the live cds sent me by Canonical and I'd like to do a "server-install", do you think is it possible? I don't want use the live cd.
<Kamion> Guf0: not really, sorry; the only way to do that would be to install the live CD and then remove everything desktopish
<tseng> thanks for the hard work, whoever cleaned up NEW
<Guf0> Kamion, well, when I install ubuntu there is a line where is listened all the features to pass at the boot. Maybe there is something there. Later I'll test, because I haven't a cd to burn the real server-install iso :)
<Kamion> tseng: no problem
<Kamion> Guf0: take it from me, nothing on the live CD will give you a server install out of the box
<Guf0> ok :)
<Keybuk> oh, this is weird
<dholbach> Kamion: thanks for genius in the archive! :)
<Kamion> np
<jono> hey
<tseng> hi jono 
<Keybuk> oh, wow, so this code is like, totally wrong
<Kamion> ... dude
<_ion> keybuk: What code?
<Keybuk> *thus* code
<Keybuk> uh this
* Keybuk blames the frenetic Strudelling he received at lunch
<robtaylor> strudel.harder.more.more.more
<robtaylor> Keybuk: coming to camby this weekend?
<Keybuk> robtaylor: Tonio_ of course!
<Keybuk> uh
<Keybuk> s/Tonio_//
<Tonio_> :)
<robtaylor> Keybuk: woo!
<slomo> when will the main freeze for knot2 start?
<Riddell> slomo: monday (I believe)
<Riddell> slomo: why is libdbus-qt only 0.62?
<slomo> Riddell: you mean 0.62.git.bla? because there wasn't a new release yet
<Riddell> slomo: any idea why that is?  surely they're all released by the same person?  
<slomo> Riddell: nope, all parts have a different maintainer
<slomo> i guess because they're either not ready yet or because they put all work in the qt4 bindings
<slomo> sjoerd, do you have an idea why qt bindings have no release yet?
<Riddell> I suspect there may not be a maintainer at all for qt3 bindings
<slomo> then it's the same as for the c# bindings since ages :/
<Riddell> slomo: so I didn't realise that it was a new ABI and I was just testing against the old dbus libraries which were still installed
<Riddell> now compiling stuff against dbus soname 3
<slomo> thanks
<sjoerd> slomo: because the qt3 stuff is totally unsupported :)
<slomo> sjoerd: nice ;)
<sjoerd> slomo: fedora/redhat put the apps that needed qt3 dbus stuff inside the app packages themselves, so they wouldn't need a new dbus-qt3 package ;(
<pitti_> hi sjoerd 
<slomo> sjoerd: some c# packages are doing the same upstream now :/ ugly as hell... at least some people are now working on new better ones
<sjoerd> yup
<sjoerd> pitti: morning ;)
<slomo> hi pitti :)
<pitti> sjoerd: it's already afternoon :)
* pitti hugs slomo
* slomo hugs pitti
<mdke> jdub: around?
<sladen> mdz: and for mere mortals too?
<mdz> http://www.kde-files.org/content/files/44218-linuxdistrotimeline-6.8.2.png
<Keybuk> o/~ The coffee man can
<Keybuk> o/~ Because he puts it in a cup and makes the world taste good
<towolf> I found a problematic interaction between compiz and gucharmap (no char magnification popup window). Do I file the bug for the former, the latter, or upstream only?
<seb128> iwj: any reason you changed the firefox user-agent string to be "Ubuntu-edgy" instead of "Ubuntu/edgy" (it used to be "Ubuntu/dapper")? epiphany upstream is asking
<iwj> seb128: No particular reason, no, but the rest of the user agent string changed lots (eg to make it have gecko in again).
<iwj> Is it a problem ?
<thom> iwj: rfc2068 (and the mozilla U-A spec) kinda suggests you should be using / to seperate product and version, but i can't see that it matters much
<seb128> iwj: <chpe> don't think it's a problem, just an unexpected / unnecessary change :)
<seb128> iwj: apparently it's no problem, he was just wondering "why"
<bddebian> Morning folks
<iriya> Is there anyone?
<pitti> iriya: no :)
<iriya> Hi!
<Keybuk> fabbione: ya know, instead of playing bug tennis you could just ask me
<Keybuk> that's definitely not a udev bug
<fabbione> Keybuk: isn't udev that handles the transition to UUID with volemid pkg?
<fabbione> Keybuk: i am not sure yet and i won't for about 2 weeks (since i am going in holidays) what's at fault and why
<fabbione> Keybuk: i added a comment that it was probably a good idea to wait to transition raid
<fabbione> Keybuk: and reassigned to udev
<iriya> Can I ask some questions?
<Keybuk> fabbione: no
<iriya> ok
<fabbione> Keybuk: no what?
<Keybuk> it's nothing to do with udev
<Keybuk> mdstat fails
<Keybuk> and you did not add a comment
<Keybuk> you just played bug tennis
<fabbione> i did add a comment...
<fabbione> i am damn sure about it
<fabbione> if mdstat fails, then you know more than i do to get it fixed.
<fabbione> i don't have the setup here to test/fix
<Keybuk> if mdstat fails, and our raid expert refuses to help, I'm going to suggest we unseed it
<Keybuk> and move raid to unsupported
<Keybuk> and universe
<fabbione> Keybuk: i didn' t refuse to help.. read above
<fabbione> i am going in vacation for 2 weeks
<jdub> mdke: around for a moment
<fabbione> and i don't have the setup to test/fix it here
<Keybuk> you could say tha ton the bug
<fabbione> Keybuk: i did write a mail about my vacation
<fabbione> that i was trying to keep less public
<fabbione> but since you take the argument here..
<fabbione> Keybuk: but if you want to remove it from the seeds go ahead.. do whatever you think it's appropriate.
<fabbione> Keybuk: at the same time please inform that we can't support server anylonger
<Keybuk> if you think that consistently refusing to help with any bugs that you're our resident expert for is an "argument", sure, I moved it here
<Keybuk> we're a distro *team*
<fabbione> please paste here where i did refuse to help
<fabbione> you keep trying to put in my mouth stuff that i did NOT say
<fabbione> if you want to take the argument that we are a distro team
<fabbione> sure.. then you can take care of a bug while i am on vacation for me
<Keybuk> I interpret the fact you've reassigned four bugs back to me whenever I've assigned themto you and asked for help as refusing to help
<fabbione> 4?
<Keybuk> yes
<fabbione> showme this 4
<Keybuk> that's how many it's been so far
<fabbione> idid reassing one today
<fabbione> so far in 2 1/2 year?
<fabbione> wow
<Keybuk> 4 in 2 months!
<Keybuk> on this one problem
<fabbione> so you start something and not dealing to take all the consequences?
<Keybuk> and I would be delighted to help this user, except that I know absolutely fucking nothing about RAID
<Keybuk> you're our expert on that
<fabbione> i would like to help him too
<fabbione> but i don't have the equipment here
<fabbione> and i will be away 2 weeks
<fabbione> learning raid takes no more than one hour for a clever guy like you
<fabbione> one hour including a coffee break
<Keybuk> enough to debug what's wrong?  alot more than that
<Keybuk> I shouldn't *need* to
<Keybuk> I have more than enough bugs of my own
<Keybuk> including those I happily accept from other people
<fabbione> dude if i die today, who will take care of that bug?
<Keybuk> nobody
<fabbione> cool
<fabbione> than reassigning
<fabbione> nobody can/will take care of it for the next 2 weeks
<Keybuk> I'm sure that's fine
<Keybuk> just don't reassign them back without so much as a comment!
<fabbione> i DID add a comment!
<Keybuk> Malone disagrees with you
<fabbione> Malone sucks
* fabbione files a big on malone
<fabbione> can you give me the bug number again?
<Keybuk> #57607
<fabbione> screw malone
* bddebian wishes he could help :-(
<fabbione> #57715
<Keybuk> fabbione: if this bug is something you do, it could explain why I've had "reassign back without comment" things from you before
<elmo> NOTICE: the Launchpad librarian is going down in 10 minutes time for an hour - soyuz will be shutdown for the period and it will affect other aspects of launchpad (e.g. bug report attachments, build logs, etc.)
<Keybuk> in which case, I apologise for you shirking your responsibilities
<fabbione> Keybuk:  i did reassign adding a comment
<Keybuk> (implying that you are)
<fabbione> Keybuk: i have no reason to push stuff back without a reason.
<fabbione> no need to apologies
<Keybuk> "never blame on a fellow developer that which they can blame on Malone"
<iwj> thom,seb128: I've made a note of it and I may even manage to change it back at some point.  Thanks :-).
<seb128> iwj: thank you ;)
<mdke> jdub: just trying to get a response to that email about mailing lists. I've resent you a reminder
<sbalneav> Keybuk: ping
<Keybuk> sbalneav: hey
<pitti> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey, just wanted to say, I was working on getting what ogra needed for the session handling done, 
<sbalneav> and I hadn't had a chance to do the fork/exec stuff for ltspfs done yet
<sbalneav> but I'll get it done within the next 4 hours or so.
<pitti> ogra already fixed ltspfs
<pitti> Keybuk: ^ approved, btw
<sbalneav> So don't demote it to universe quite yet :)
<sbalneav> hey pitti
<sbalneav> yeah, he's going to mail that bit to me, so I'll just finish up on ltspfsd
<Keybuk> sbalneav: it was demoted to universe already
<ogra> sbalneav, to late they already deoted them 
<Keybuk> it's Colin's archive day today
<sbalneav> ogra: so does this mean the localdev stuff won't be in this knot?
<Kamion> happy to promote it back again
<sbalneav> Kamion: If you could, it'd be great, because it would mean that edubuntu users could test localdev stuff this knot.
<sbalneav> Like I say, I can send a tarball within about 4 hours or so.
<Kamion> we're looking at near the end of next week for the Knot release, not near the start
<sbalneav> Ah, so time yet.
<sbalneav> ok
<Kamion> so if you guys get it fixed, I can promote ltspfsd on Monday and that will be time enough
<Kamion> ltspfs promoted - thanks for your patience
<sbalneav> Perfect.  It'll be done today.  Ogra needed the SERVER_LANGS and SERVER_SESSIONS handling, so I did that first so he could carry on with the ldm enhancements.
<imbrandon> hrm whom do i whine to about the planet.u.c ? 
<Zdra> nvidia released driver 1.0-8774 with Xorg 7.1 support ! Does someone know when it will come into edgy ?
<Burgwork> Zdra, fairly soon, because we need it
<Zdra> Burgwork: yes that's why I ask, because I need it :-)
<Burgwork> Zdra, all I can say is that it will happen. The developers are busy, so please don't bug them
<Zdra> yes, thanks :D
<elmo> librarian is back
<elmo> and soyuz has been turned back on
<lloydinho> wooh! DistroSprint is now officially over!
<zul> already?
<Kamion> the archive's healthier now than it was; sync requests will be dealt with upon Scott's/my return hoome
<Kamion> home
<bddebian> w000t
<Kamion> it's Scott's archive day on Tuesday, thankfully. :)
* Kamion heads off
<Burgwork> Kamion, thanks for the schedule. Will make creating those Knot2/3 pages much easier
<ogra> sbalneav, looks like pitti got it fixed
<sbalneav> Which, the ltspfsd?
<ogra> yes
<sbalneav> whoot
<ogra> i had done some work already ... but it simply exploded
<sbalneav> I was just hacking on it now, but this is goot doo.
<sbalneav> arg
<sbalneav> good too
<ogra> the calming part is that even pitti needed quite some time to get it working :)
<pitti> yeah, friday afternoon blindness, sorry
<sbalneav> Man, from "fine, also" to "german dog droppings" in one letter transposition.
<sbalneav> ogra, pitti, if you could email me the diffs, and I'll upstream it.
<ogra> sbalneav, will do 
<sbalneav> that way you won't need to maintain a separate patch in the future.
<sbalneav> ogra: did the infod stuff do what you want?
<sbalneav> pitti: I owe you so many beers now, I'll just buy you a keg. :)
<pitti> sbalneav: nevermind, this one was due to my paranoia
<pitti> sorry for the trouble
<pitti> but at least we can forget about it now
<ogra> uploaded !!!
<pitti> \o/
<ogra> pitti, you didnt cause the trouble 
<sbalneav> :D/-<
<sbalneav> :D|-<
<sbalneav> :D\-<
<LaserJock> sbalneav: nifty ;-)
<ogra> i still dont understand why my word cant count for a missing fix and the packages *had* to be demoted ... even though it was clear the fix would come immediately
<Keybuk> o|_|/
<sbalneav> meh, no worries.  Rules is rules, we live within them.
<ogra> well, it should be possible to make exceptions from rules based on trust ...
<sbalneav> I was busy at work for the last few days, and I wanted to make sure you got the infod stuff so you could hack on LDM, I was going to patch up *fs on the weekend, wasn't aware we were so close to a knot dealine.
<ogra> well, i didnt expect that it would be reverted ...
<ogra> else i had told you that its urgent
<sbalneav> Alls well that ends well. :)
<Robot101> iwj, Kamion: any plans to come to the debian UK bbq this weekend?
<Robot101> collabora are sponsoring to the tune of a firkin of Milton Pegasus, if that helps :)
<AnAnt> I have a problem packaging a library (fsplib), it installs in debian/tmp/usr/{lib,include}. So I made fsplib0.install file which contains: usr/lib/* , and fsplib-dev.install file which contains: usr/include/*
<AnAnt> yet, the resulting packages don't have anything in the lib & include dirs ! anyone knows what may cause that ?
<tuxi> hi
<_ion> Argh.
<pygi> I would need cdrecord expert, anyone ? :)
<jdong> how is the dapper commercial repo handled through launchpad?
<jdong> I got a user here requesting a newer version of opera via backports
<jdong> and obviously I can't do that :)
<pygi> jdong, no, you can't :P
<jdong> I'd like to forward the request to the right person
<jdong> because I'd like to see opera 9.01 in dapper-commercial too :)
<LaserJock> jdong: you might ask mvo
<fluxbuntu> hey everyone i have a question
<fluxbuntu> there is a potential security threat in Ubuntu
<fluxbuntu> when you go to create a user in Ubuntu
<fluxbuntu> all fo the roles are checked
<fluxbuntu> which means by default a newly created users has root access
<fluxbuntu> of*
<LaserJock> fluxbuntu: you can file a bug at http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<LaserJock> fluxbuntu: this must be in edgy?
<fluxbuntu> LAserJock DApper
<LaserJock> hmm, it wasn't that way for me, and it isn't presently in edgy for me either
<fluxbuntu> unless you all changed it in the latest update
<pradeep_> fluxbuntu, System - Administration -> Users and Groups?
<fluxbuntu> pradeep_ yes
<fluxbuntu> you should have to enable roles 
<fluxbuntu> not deselect them
<LaserJock> it looks ok to me
<fluxbuntu> if someone just started using linux and created users all of them whould have root access or access to sudo
<fluxbuntu> ahh
<fluxbuntu> it has been fix
<fluxbuntu> :)
<fluxbuntu> before i did a fresh install of dapper
<fluxbuntu> and all the roles were checked when i went to create a new user
<fluxbuntu> i just updated
<fluxbuntu> LaserJock pradeep_ nevermind
<fluxbuntu> i guess that is why 6.0.6.1 was issued
<LaserJock> heh, np
<pygi> botox ^_^
<pygi> When we'll get botox?:)
<LaserJock> I think it must have been done before then though
<fluxbuntu> laaserjock i went to create user accounts for my sisters on my ubuntu laptop
<fluxbuntu> and had to deselect it otherwise they could do damage
<pradeep_> i just checked and the new user doesn't have "System Administration Privileges" enabled by default
<fluxbuntu> pradeep_ have you updated?
<fluxbuntu> or is it a clean install?
<pradeep_> updated...
<pradeep_> it'
<pradeep_> you're saying the clean has it?
<robertj> why did debian & ubuntu stop including webmin? Was it just because it never worked quite right?
<fluxbuntu> i had to deselect it on my clean install
<fluxbuntu> predeep_ otherwise my sisters whould have been able to use sudo
<robertj> is there some other policy reason it got bumped?
<fluxbuntu> has anyone else had or reported this?
<pradeep_> fluxbuntu, this would have been filed as a part of release notes for 6.06.1 if it had been there
<Burgwork> robertj, webmin is not installed by default
<fluxbuntu> pradeep_ hmm that is strange
<robertj> Burgwork: it's totally removed from the repo isn't it?
<fluxbuntu> pradeep_ an isolated case? that is weird and it does not make since
<Burgwork> robertj, webmin is ood and i think upstream is deaad
<robertj> Burgwork: is their a recommended replacement?
<pradeep_> fluxbuntu, http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=233444 FYI
<Burgwork> fluxbuntu, pradeep_ by deafult, only the first user should have sudo rights. No other created users should have it, unless added to the admin gruop
<pradeep_> yep
<pradeep_> and that's the way it is
<fluxbuntu> burgwork that is why i am saying this must be an isolated case
<fluxbuntu> but that makes no sense if they are all the same iso
<fluxbuntu> pradeep_ are you busy?
<pradeep_> well sleepy
<fluxbuntu> oh ok
<pradeep_> fluxbuntu, are you using fluxbuntu by any chance? Maybe THAT has this defect :P
<fluxbuntu> pradeep_ no
<fluxbuntu> pradeep_ i have not released fluxbuntu yet
<fluxbuntu> pradeep_ there are not any defects with my operating system
<fluxbuntu> LaserJock are you busy?
<LaserJock> umm, sorta kinda, depends on what you want ;-)
<fluxbuntu> oh ok nevermind then
<fluxbuntu> are there any devs who are not busy?
<pygi> fluxbuntu, what you broke? :)
<fluxbuntu> pugi i did not break anything
<LaserJock> fluxbuntu: it's better to just say it
<fluxbuntu> LaserJock no i do not think so i do not want to bother anyone if they are busy
<pygi> fluxbuntu, ok, what's the problem then? :)
<exobuzz> what's the status of fonts with edgy? They now look more blurred, and bold fonts look too bold, and not well defined (using bitstream family).
<exobuzz> i much prefered how they look in dapper.
<fluxbuntu> i need a wiki or documentation or an outline if none exist on how to compile meta packages correctly
<fluxbuntu> debian repository maintainer's docs do not help
<fluxbuntu> since meta packages are different from regular ones as they draw from other packages
<fluxbuntu> "compile" == build
<LaserJock> fluxbuntu: check out the Ubuntu Packaging Guide on help.ubuntu.com
<fluxbuntu> LaserJock it points to the debian guide
<LaserJock> umm, but it isn't the same thing
<LaserJock> also look at the source packages for existing meta packages
<fluxbuntu> laserjock i have
<fluxbuntu> the problem is with me is i need some sort of instructions to follow, just like with customizing a livecd
<fluxbuntu> skip something and it is not going to work
<LaserJock> well, we really can't provide that kind of thing easily
<fluxbuntu> LaserJock
<fluxbuntu> ok that is all i needed to know
<fluxbuntu> thanks anyway
<LaserJock> packaging isn't like cooking
<LaserJock> in the sense of having a defined recipe to go by
<LaserJock> we can teach you stuff though and if you read through the Packaging Guide you should have enough to make a meta package
<LaserJock> also take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingBasics
#ubuntu-devel 2006-08-26
<bddebian> Heya
<Seveas> bddebian, what happend to 'Boo'?
<bddebian> Seveas: That's only for #u-bugs :-)
<Seveas> heh
<Seveas> to scare the bugs away?
<bddebian> Of course :-)
<jono> hey
<LaserJock> hi jono 
<jono> hey LaserJock 
<Burgwork> jono, !
<jono> hey Burgwork :)
<LaserJock> jono: how is the Community Manager today? :-)
<jono> LaserJock, good thanks, been a busy week
<LaserJock> jono: I bet
<jono> so hows things here?
<LaserJock> fine, here. staying busy with various projects
* bddebian just sits idle :)
<jono> :)
<LaserJock> whatever Mr. Top-ten ;-)
<jono> tonight is Jokosher hacking time
<zul> LaserJock: you are always always busy..
<LaserJock> I am
<zul> its scarey
<LaserJock> I've been working on Ubuntu stuff for 4 days straight
<LaserJock> 12-14 hrs a day
<bddebian> LaserJock: Science bugs?  Good man! ;-P
<LaserJock> hehe, I wish
<LaserJock> lots of doc work and I'm trying to implement my edgy spec
<zul> LaserJock: good...now dont let us interrupt you ;0
<LaserJock> now I'm a full-time volunteer raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU ;-)
<bddebian> Boy, sounds bad :-)
<LaserJock> mhm, my wife said something a little stronger
<zul> heh..you never spend anytime with me you are always in front of the computer?
<LaserJock> "You need to divorce that laptop"
<zul> or something like that?
<zul> just get her her own computer and be in the same room with her and reverse it
<bddebian> Hmm, sounds familiar
<LaserJock> zul: it *is* her computer ;-)
<zul> oh..
<LaserJock> that's my first mistake
<zul> well then you need to divorice her :)
<zul> nothing should stop you for ubuntu time
<LaserJock> heh
<jono> LaserJock, wow, long days, you kick ass! :)
<LaserJock> jono: no, I think it's that I'm so slow. I have to make up
<LaserJock> :-)
<jono> heh
<LaserJock> well, I had Ubucon and the MOTU School session which took a lot more time than I was planning on
<LaserJock> I did the MOTU School for 4 hrs
<LaserJock> then tried to make a decent looking log
<LaserJock> but then that leads to working on the Packaging Guide and Developer's Reference
<LaserJock> so in the end, every time I try to do something I get like 2 or 3 new projects to work on
<rodarvus> :)
<LaserJock> and I don't even do cool things like zul or rodarvus or bddebian ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: What the hell do I do?
<LaserJock> fix bugs
<bddebian> Oh wow, add a desktop file.. w00t :-)
<Burgwork> bddebian, vvery cool
<LaserJock> you do more then that you silly goose so just shut up and take a compliment ;-)
<rodarvus> I don't bet many of you would like to be on my skin.
* Burgwork hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> Yessir :-)
<Burgwork> rodarvus, so how many strips did mdz and Mark take off you?
* Burgwork hugs rodarvus 
<rodarvus> none. they're professional people
<bddebian> rodarvus: I would if I had any skillz
<Burgwork> anyway, I am headed home
<zul> rodarvus: no way..
<zul> but the question is how drunk did you get after? :)
<rodarvus> I didn't drink any beer
<rodarvus> I was busy working late night ;)
<zul> heh
<mcrandello> hi sorry if this is more of a support question but does anyone know offhand which version of madwifi drivers are being packaged for the linux-restricted-modules packages in 6.06?
<mcrandello> or if there's a place to download the source to build it for a new kernel
<desrt> apt-get source linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15-26-686
<mcrandello> thanks :)
<mcrandello> for some reason the version you guys put in works about 10 times as well as anything I've gotten from madwifi
<Lathiat> i think we're running the non-ng version?
<Lathiat> or the other way around?
<desrt> dapper has non-ng for cards which are supported by it and -ng for the ones that need -ng
<desrt> edgy is -ng through and through
<desrt> if you have a card on dapper that's supported by both then it will default to using the old one
<mcrandello> I tried with 0.9.0 which I think is old and ng, and the current CVS and all of them have problems finding aps
<mcrandello> and I'm surrounded by almost 500 of them on campus
<desrt> you need to load some extra modules in order for it to find ap's
<desrt> specifically, wlan_scan_sta
<mcrandello> interesting
<desrt> and wlan_scan_ap if you're in the adhoc thing
<desrt> *into
<mcrandello> atm I've got wlan and wlan_wep which I don't think I'm even using
<desrt> you'll need more than that
<desrt> probably also goes without saying that you need ath_pci and ath_hal
<mcrandello> yeah was loading those, it seemed like the homebuilt versions weren't picking up signal near as well either
<mcrandello> right now with ubuntu's drivers signal is like 60 with mine I was lucky to show 20 and it frequently dropped
<desrt> odd
<desrt> good ubuntu karma, i guess :)
<mcrandello> yeah forget trying to connect wifi with slackware
<desrt> ubuntu gets a lot of good work done on it in terms of tuning stuff like laptops, wifi, etc
<desrt> it really makes a fair deal of difference
<dada> http://www.djdada.dl.am RnB/HipHop Songs to Download & Musicclips! check it out ;)
<mcrandello> alright time to reboot and try building the source package I guess
<mcrandello> thanks for the help desrt 
<desrt> the trash icon has disappeared from my desktop
<desrt> how extremely odd
<desrt> actually, all sorts of stuff is missing....
* desrt finds the problem, files bug
<desrt> bed time!
<ZeronenoreZ> my mouth theme 'whiteglass' always have a white line!
<desrt> ZeronenoreZ; talk to your dentist about that.
<desrt> nite nite
<ZeronenoreZ> ?<
<ZeronenoreZ> oh i see 
<ZeronenoreZ> my mouse theme 'whiteglass' always have a white line!
<ZeronenoreZ> desrt, :sorry about that ;) 
<Fujitsu> #ubuntu-devel is probably not the best place to discuss this. #ubuntu might be better.
<pygi> raphink, hey
<raphink> hi pygi
<jdub> mjg59: http://www.csamuel.org/2006/08/26/quick-play-with-bootchart/
<pygi> raphink, seems like I won't be able to attend the conf :-/
<raphink> really?
<raphink> :(
<pygi> raphink, yup,because it was postponed :-/
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> I don't know the new date yet
<pygi> somewhere in october I was told
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I'll have to see if I can make it, too
<pygi> ah :(
<sivang> pygi, raphink : what conf dudes ?
<pygi> sivang, the one in Hungary :-/
<sivang> pygi: ah, it was postponed ? ooo
<raphink> yes
<raphink> brb
<shawarma> A Ubuntu conf in Hungary?
<pygi> shawarma, yup
<pascal80> p
<shawarma> pygi: Where can I find info about it?
<pygi> shawarma, nowhere yet
<shawarma> pygi: aha. Is it very secret? What's it about?
<pygi> shawarma, Ubuntu Users conference
<shawarma> pygi: Ah, not a developer conference?
<pygi> shawarma, nop, but there'll be developers
<shawarma> of course.
<shawarma> I'm still not quite getting it. Is it like a Hungarian conference, or is it an international conference hosted in Hungary?
<pygi> international conf. hosted in Hungary shawarma 
<lastnode> imbrandon, ping
<pygi> imbrandon, same, where's the ui?
<mjg59> jdub: I think "A load" is an overstatement, but edgy should be faster
<Seveas> ivoks, nice blog post
<ivoks> Seveas: contraversial, yes :)
<ivoks> controversial, even :)
<HiddenWolf> mjg59: noticably faster, and thanks to what?
<mjg59> HiddenWolf: Not using vga16
<HiddenWolf> ah, right. :)
<pygi> sivang, poke?
<tuxi> hi
<pygi_> sivang, pokw ? :)
<pygi_> poke*
<tuxi>  (ROFL) 
<tuxi> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=26487
<_ion> ARGH
<pygi_> tuxi, dont kill the eyes!
<tuxi> why not 
<tuxi> borm to die ,-)
<pygi_> tuxi, just stop it 'cause I say so...
<_ion> /ignore -network Freenode tuxi  ah, much better.
<tuxi> ok
<pygi_> _ion, heh
<pygi_> tuxi, thank you
<tuxi> no prob
<tuxi> one click ahead
<tuxi> who is  prob with eyes  (hh2)  ftp://tuxist.de/Bildschirmphoto10.png
<sivang> pygi_: hey
<POX_> hi, I have created some packages for Debian and they were copied to Ubuntu Edgy. What should I do to keep them up to date in Ubuntu? They were automatically synchronized at least till 12. july. Should I upload them (they're building fine in edgy's chroot) to revu.tauware.de?
<azeem> POX_: are they in main or universe?
<POX_> universe
<azeem> if universe, please contact #ubuntu-motu
<POX_> https://launchpad.net/people/pox/+packages
<POX_> ok, thanks
<bddebian> Morning
<tuxi> hi
<bddebian> Hello tuxi
<tuxi> i hate to packaging the helix player argh
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> jdub: ping
<pitti> Hi
<rodarvus> hi pitti!
<Kaleo> hello pitti 
<bddebian> hi pitti ;-)
<pitti> rodarvus: had a safe trip home?
<rodarvus> hrm
<rodarvus> I'm still at the hotel
<pitti> hey Kaleo, moin bddebian 
<pitti> rodarvus: oh, I see
<rodarvus> I'll only leave tomorrow morning :/
<rodarvus> there was no earlier flight from germany to brazil
<pitti> rodarvus: have a safe trip then!
* pitti goes to bed now, 'see' you all in a week!
<rodarvus> pitti, thanks :)
<rodarvus> have a great week!
<pitti> I'm sure I will!
<pitti> thanks
<rodarvus> I'm sure too :)
<rodarvus> oh
#ubuntu-devel 2006-08-27
<exobuzz> is the edgy kernel still accepting patches? I have a patch for a network card driver I would like to see in edgy. (It's a one line patch to add support for a PHY which the current driver doesnt recognise - and for phy's it doesnt know it puts them into what seems a rather silly mode causing packet loss)
<exobuzz> launchpad confuses me. i added a bug report and it told me 
<exobuzz> Thank you for your bug report.
<exobuzz> The package linux-image-2.6.17-1-386 is not published in Ubuntu; the bug was targeted only to the distribution.
<exobuzz> does that mean i fsked up ?
<LaserJock> not entirely
<exobuzz> i wanted to add a bug to the linux kernel binary for edgy
<LaserJock> linux-image-2.6.17-1-386 is not a source package
<exobuzz> oh
<exobuzz> how can i fix this ? rediret the bug. or cant i ?
<LaserJock> you can ask #ubuntu-bugs
<LaserJock> but yeah
<LaserJock> you can fix it
<exobuzz> i think ive sorted it
<exobuzz> can i change the importance. i didnt see a box to fill out for that
<exobuzz> it says importance is "Untriaged" .
<geser> importance can only be changed by a member of the ubuntu-qa team
<LaserJock> exobuzz: yeah, the ubuntu-qa team will triage it and change the importance
<exobuzz> triage.. i need to look that word up :-)
<LaserJock> exobuzz: well, make sure the bug has all the info it needs and is confirmed so it's ready for developers to work on
<exobuzz> i want to get a patch into the edgy kernel. but the patch is quite new. its not even in 2.6.18 yet.. but its a simple patch that wont break anything..
<exobuzz> i might get lucky..
<exobuzz> LaserJock: how do i make it confirmed?
<exobuzz> oh sorry you mean they do that
<exobuzz> my brain is off
<exobuzz> ignore me :)
<LaserJock> no problem
<gnomefreak> what happened to libgtk in edgy?
<trappist> Say there's a bug that's been confirmed and has a fixy patch attached to it, that's been languishing in that state for a long time.  What's the appropriate way to get it a little attention?
<StevenK> Bug people to fix it?
<trappist> well it's been fixed in that there's a patch.  How to know who to bug to apply the patch and upload
<StevenK> Is it in universe or main?
<trappist> the one I was just looking at is in main.  pan.
<trappist> in universe I assign it to motu-reviewers
<sistpoty> trappist: you could try to assign it to ubuntu-main-sponsors
<sistpoty> (or subscribe that team to the bug if it has a good assignee already)
<trappist> it's not assigned, I'll do that
<trappist> thanks
<sistpoty> np
<trappist> while I'm here - it seems the only thing I can't do to a bug is triage it - am I missing something, or do I need to be a member of some group to do that?
<sistpoty> trappist: I don't think so
<sistpoty> trappist: have you tried clicking on the package name (directly under affects)?
<trappist> yeah, there's a plaintext (no href) "importance"
<Hobbsee> trappist: you have to be in the ubuntu-qa group to change that
<Hobbsee> trappist: it got abused too much
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: ah thanks... didn't know that yet ;)
<trappist> Hobbsee: that seems strange, if I can declare a bug fixed, reject it, subscribe people to it, etc., all ripe for abuse.  but I can see how everybody would want to mark their own wishlist bugs 'critical'
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: you wouldnt - dev and core dev are automatically a part of -qa
<Hobbsee> trappist: true that.  you cant stop everything.
<trappist> Hobbsee: how does somebody get into -qa, then
<Hobbsee> trappist: actually, there were a whole lot of bugs getting marked as critical that werent
<Hobbsee> trappist: see #ubuntu-bugs - the topic
<trappist> yeah it's inevitable if it's wide open
<trappist> thanks
<LaserJock> I think you have to be in the ubuntu-qa team or something similar
<trappist> LaserJock: heh yea we just covered that :)
<LaserJock> trappist: sorry, had huge lag
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: read 6 lines up :P
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<trappist> as useful as triaging is, and as easy as it is (or can be), maybe it'd be better to just blacklist abusers
<trappist> than to put up this barrier to entry
<LaserJock> it's not much of a barrier
<StevenK> It takes more time to clean up and blacklist people, than to do what is currently done.
<trappist> LaserJock: maybe - I'll let you know how long before my application gets reviewed :)
<trappist> StevenK: definitely, but I suspect we lose a lot of triagers
<trappist> I've probably gone through 500 bugs wondering why I couldn't triage before I thought to ask
<LaserJock> well, triagers really do need to be integrated with the bug squad et al.
<trappist> also, it would probably cut way down on abuse if reporters were just prevented from triaging their own bugs
<LaserJock> it isn't so much to prevent abuse, IMO, as it is to organize effort
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: point.
<trappist> I'd even be happy with maybe a hyperlinked question mark next to the plaintext importance, pointing to something that answers some of these questions
<Hobbsee> trappist: perhaps suggest that on #launchpad ?  that's a good idea
<trappist> oh yeah, will do
<trappist> actually I think I'll file a bug on malone
<trappist> I'd make it a wishlist bug, but you know ;)
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee just uses #launchpad for suggestions.
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure that the reporter is really supposed to be the one to change the importance
<trappist> LaserJock: I agree, except when I know my bug is a wishlist item
<LaserJock> yeah, that I can see
<Hobbsee> trappist: true, i've asked for a checkbox for "wishlist"
<trappist> I shouldn't be able to change "group searching in pan should be case-insensitive" to critical
<trappist> Hobbsee: that's a good one
<trappist> that's a darn good one
<LaserJock> hmm, but what if it really is important but the reporter doesn't know it? :-)
<trappist> that's a good point.  'wishlist' could easily be misunderstood to mean 'I wish this would get fixed'
<trappist> and then it could easily get overlooked
<LaserJock> I mean the idea is that you start out with a "virgin" bug that nobody else has seen
<LaserJock> and then somebody else with the necessary knowledge comes around
<LaserJock> and determines what it should be
<trappist> triages, confirms, etc.
<trappist> which brings up - why is it possible for me to confirm my own bugs? (just tested that)
* trappist fires off another malone bug
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> it's useful
<trappist> doesn't it defeat the purpose?
<trappist> if no one else can duplicate it, shouldn't it stay unconfirmed?
<LaserJock> yes
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> trappist: it's probably for the case of "i have got this, i've seen about 5 other people on irc who have this, this is clearly confirmed"
<Hobbsee> trappist: if the other people dont have a LP account or something
<trappist> that's a decent point too.  my bug's in, I'll leave it to the launchpad folks to weigh the pros and cons :)
<Hobbsee> basically, i'ts common sense
<Hobbsee> and of course, the "make a bugtracker foolproof, and only fools will want to use it"
* desrt aims the firehose at Hobbsee 
<desrt> there are a lot of fools, too
* Hobbsee attacks desrt with her long pointy stick of DOOM!
<trappist> fool-resistance is a good goal
* Hobbsee sets desrt on fire, as an afterthought
<desrt> yr too wet to light matches
* desrt is heartbroken
<sistpoty> ping infinity: can you help with bootstrapping fpc? (lp bug #2253)... if you need more info, please add this to the bug or mail me at sistpoty@ubuntu.com (not sure if I'll be around on irc during the next days)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2253 in fpc "fpc needs bootstrapping on buildds" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2253
<siretart> jamesh: where can I find the latest version of python.m4? it seems that you have worked on this at some point..
<jamesh> siretart: in the latest version of automake?
<lucas__> is wiki.ubuntu.com down ? it refuses connections to ports 80 and 443
<mdke> yes
<lucas__> ok
<siretart> jamesh: oh. I see. I'm working on a package where upstream seems to ship a broken version of python.m4
<shawarma> Keybuk: Do you just want bug reports on upstart or do you also want to know if it worked like it should?
<Keybuk> shawarma: bug reports please
<Keybuk> though if it worked properly, it does't need one :)
<shawarma> Right. :-)
<Keybuk> did it?
<shawarma> you jus tsaid you didn't want to know.. :-)
<Keybuk> I'd still like to know
<jdub> Keybuk: is there a simple way of installing base system only? i can think of expert install and preseed/kickstart - anything more... immediate?
<Keybuk> jdub: server on the alternate
<shawarma> server install is pretty basic.
<jdub> Keybuk: that's ubuntu-minimal rather than base
<LarstiQ> debootstrap?
<shawarma> Keybuk: Jokes aside, upstart seems to work just fine. 
<Keybuk> jdub: there is no base
<Keybuk> jdub: what do you mean by "base" /
<jdub> Keybuk: debian sense
<Keybuk> jdub: debootstrap?
<sivang> Keybuk: when are you planning to make it part of edgy ?
<jdub> Keybuk: about as much mucking around as expert, only manual :)
<Keybuk> sivang: next week or two
<StevenK> Keybuk: Is the code brutal, given it's a replacement for init and inetd?
<jdub> Keybuk: got plans for pimping cross-distro adoption?
<sivang> Keybuk: cool
<azeem> did any of the other major distribution switch to some next-gen ini system?
<jdub> don't think so
<_ion> stevenk: Define brutal. :-)
<Seveas> urgh -- wiki is back up but saving pages gives nice cgitb tracebacks :/
<Keybuk> StevenK: "brutal" ?
<Keybuk> StevenK: it's only 8K larger than the existing init
<StevenK> Umm. Looks incredibly evil.
<Keybuk> azeem: interest from other distros in upstart is high
<azeem> cool
* azeem checks scrollback for obvious python jokes
<Seveas> Keybuk, I'm not surprised that people are interested, sysvinit just isn't adequate anymore
<azeem> Keybuk: the Hurd people found out they don't have WNOWAIT, btw :)
<imbrandon> anyone got time to sponsor a quick debdiff for main for a lowly MOTU heheh ?
<imbrandon> wow that killed the room
<jdub> apparently a base install (via expert, skipping package bits) includes ubuntu-minimal anyway
<imbrandon> moins jdub
<Keybuk> azeem: *shrug* who cares about the hurd?
<imbrandon> jdub / Keybuk: hey i was gonna hack at some of the layout/css for planet.u.c but its obviously not in the bzr tree , anyway i could snag a copy ( i wanted to see about combineing post from the same person in the same day in a single bubble , if that make sense )
<Keybuk> imbrandon: I don't have it
<imbrandon> k
<lastnode_> imbrandon, any news on the bzr repo? we got a sf svn account btw
<imbrandon> if you have it in svn i can have it sync to LP's bzr , i'll pop in the chan later today and help you sync it
<Lure> Keybuk: upstart booted my Kubuntu nw8240 laptop nicely, shutdown/reboot is fast (if initctl is used), does not work from KDE menu (which is probably exepcted)
<Lure> Keybuk: nice work - I am really happy that somebody started to address init problem
<Treenaks> Lure: nw8240 -- what resolution? :)
<Lure> Treenaks: 1920x1200
<Treenaks> Lure: and: working with ati or fglrx?
<Lure> Treenaks: ati (fglrx on dapper)
<Treenaks> because my nw8240 + 1920x1200 + ati still breaks
<Lure> Treenaks: in what sense? It only needs MonitorLayout option here...
* Hobbsee wonders where this upstart stuff is
<Treenaks> Lure: in 'distorted screen' sense
<Lure> Hobbsee: see Keybuk blog
* Hobbsee checks the planet
<Treenaks> Lure: I get a weird distorted wobbly screen
<Treenaks> Lure: (videos available, let me see where I put them..)
<Lure> Treenaks: interesting... it has to be some bios/fw issue then... I have read other reports (from offical canonical sponsored tester)
<Hobbsee> ooh...found it :)
<Keybuk> Lure: I think the fact shutdown is fast is a bug ;)
<Treenaks> Lure: I got this nw8240 from Canonical..
<Seveas> Hobbsee, upstart is keybuks plan to take over the world
<Treenaks> Lure: and it's not the bios, that's at the latest version :)
<Hobbsee> Seveas: yes.   i wish him luck.
<Treenaks> Lure: anyway, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/20283 has theora files showing the crap :)
<Lure> Treenaks: ok, so it is you that guy... ;-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[fgl v5000]  really bad sync" [Medium,Needs info]  
<Hobbsee> Seveas: isnt that my job though, to take over the world?
<zul> Hobbsee: no its mine
<Hobbsee> zul: nooo!  it cant be yours!
* Hobbsee attacks zul with her long pointy stick of DOOM!
<zul> its always be mine
* zul notes that he cant be sticked
<Lure> Treenaks: not sure what can be wrong - maybe yours is older/newer and there is some HW/FW bug...
<Treenaks> Lure: might be
<Treenaks> Lure: though it's weird that it works with 'official' ATI drivers :)
<Lure> Keybuk: when is the plan to have upstart scripts for rcS?
* Lure thinks that tis where it will become interesting ;-)
<Lure> s/tis/is/
<Keybuk> Lure: next couple of weeks
<Lure> Keybuk: so Knot2 will not use upstart yet?
<Keybuk> Lure: will see, it might be worth doing as an experiment
<Keybuk> with just running the current scripts
<Treenaks> Lure: there are lots of types of NW8240, it seems.. what's your "part number"? (it's next to the serial number on the bottom of the laptop; mine is PG818ET)
<Lure> Treenaks: PY442EA#ABB - http://h20195.www2.hp.com/V2/default.aspx?status=obsolete&segment=sm&country=uk&lang=en&pn=Mobile%20Products/HP%20Compaq%20nw8240%20Mobile%20Workstation/PY442EA
<Treenaks> Lure: that might account for the difference in workingness
<Lure> Treenaks: most probably - there was another guy who did not have any problems with nw8240 - suspend to RAM/hibernate worked out of box, while mine has started to work after several improvements done in acpi-support
<Treenaks> Mine still has some wifi trouble
<Treenaks> after returning from sleep
<Lure> Treenaks: I still have problems with ati on lid close/undock: bug 40808
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40808 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "open lid -> wrong resolution" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40808
<Lure> Treenaks: wifi works from day 1 for me...
<Treenaks> Lure: wifi works, but not after coming back from suspend/hibernate
<Lure> Treenaks: here wifi gets even reconnected (by knetworkmanager) after suspend/hibernate
<Treenaks> Lure: hm.. I might need to re-test then :)
<Treenaks> I might have done something wrong myself :)
<shawarma> hmm... I wonder how long I should wait before I can assume that my shipit shipment has gone missing.. shipit says they were sent to shipping company on June 7th. they're not here yet. :-/
<infinity> shawarma: After your conduct in Paris, we cancelled your order.
<shawarma> infinity: looks who's talking. :-)
<infinity> shawarma: What?  I didn't make any developers vomit. :P
<shawarma> infinity: Oh.. Good point.
<shawarma> infinity: Yup, the score: shawarma vs. ubuntu-core-dev: 2-0. 
<infinity> shawarma: You nailed two of us?  You we're responsible for Colin, were you?
<shawarma> infinity: Well...
* infinity stares.
<shawarma> infinity: I can't take ALL the credit/blame.
<shawarma> infinity: But I must say I figured that one out pretty well. sitting in the front-most backseat on that ride is the cleverest thing I ever did. :-)
<lastnode> infinity, i bugged you a few weeks back about a log report tool. wonder if you remember me :)
<shawarma> infinity: I wouldn't have minded being awake to witness it all, though.
<infinity> lastnode: I do.  Would you hate me if I asked you to bug me on a work day? :)
<infinity> lastnode: Other than random chatter about vomit, I prefer not to think about Ubuntu on weekends.
<lastnode> infinity, yeah im sorry. :) i made this weekend last weekend too. :\ ill bug you tomorrow dude. thanks.
<shawarma> Yeah. Sundays really should be reserved for drinking stories.
<shawarma> it IS sunday, isn't it?
<infinity> shawarma: Well, it's Monday here, but only by 4 minutes.
<lastnode> infinity, if ubuntu was my dayjob, id probably not want to think about it on weekends either. :)
<lastnode> it's Monday? are you in Japan?
<infinity> lastnode: Australia.
* lastnode always thought he was early in ubuntu circles
<shawarma> infinity: So it IS a work day for you.
<lastnode> oh right
<zul> infinity: what do you mean you not always working?
<infinity> shawarma: Not until I've slept. :P
* lastnode is in Sri Lanka
<infinity> zul: I only work 90 hours per week, the rest I reserve for myself. :P
<shawarma> infinity: Clever. How long does your average sunday last? Until wednesday?
<zul> infinity: hehe
<infinity> shawarma: I wish. :)
<infinity> shawarma: I wonder how mdz would like it if I changed my core hours to "a 40-hour block, starting Wednesday morning", and then took the rest of the week off.
<infinity> It's more or less how I work anyway, except that I then end up having to be around for the other days too.
<zul> i bet he would love it
<shawarma> infinity: I just bought an espresso maker thing. I've hardly slept ever since.
<shawarma> infinity: I bet that thing could bring some looooong sundays with it.
<bddebian> Morning
<linuxboy> I'm having issues with nautilus crashing. #ubuntu doesn't have the people to help, can you help?
<linuxboy>  5450 adrian    25   0  331m 288m  11m R 80.2 57.4   7:04.52 nautilus
<linuxboy> i can make it eat all my ram and make my pc unusable
<mrDaniel> I am not sure if this is a bug: under windows I can adjust the sound-volumen with Fn+left (turn down) and Fn+right (louder). Under ubuntu this shourtcuts work too (what's great), but the are 'linked' with the wrong volume-control (Headphones). do anyone know who set this 'link' to another volume-control (PCM) ???
<sivang> has anyone else seen that google is no longer in ubuntu's firefox quick search ?
<sivang> I get all sorts of weird search engines..
<sivang> but not google itself
<mrDaniel> @sivang: search-engines can easily be added
<mrDaniel> just click on 'add engines'
<sivang> mrDaniel: did that , for some reason google is not htere
<mrDaniel> that cannot be
<sivang> mrDaniel: https://addons.mozilla.org/search-engines.php , can you spot google there?
<mrDaniel> just 5 min
<linuxboy> anybody know about my problem/bug?
<exobuzz> linuxboy: post a bug on launchpad perhaps with steps to reproduce ?|
<linuxboy> exobuzz: it seems that it is only for one user. and I have no idea how to reproduce
<linuxboy> exobuzz: I'll remove my config files and leave it
<linuxboy> exobuzz: any idea where it stores its config files?
<exobuzz> last last update google made on it's search engine core really sucks anyway. for example "link:mydomain" now comes up with 19 results. even though you can do a "contains" search which shows that at least a few hundred sites link to me.
<exobuzz> sorry. that was off topic. it just came out. :)
<Burgundavia> mjg59: you uploaded an xorg with composting enabled by default no?
<sladen> Burgundavia: it was talked about in Germany
<_ion> compost, n. A mixture of decaying organic matter, as from leaves and manure, used to improve soil structure and provide nutrients.
<Burgundavia> _ion: right. I just woke up ;)
<Burgundavia> sladen, writing something for UWN
<zyga> is keybuk around on weekends?
<sladen> zyga: no, he's sitting in the garden drinking beer with his dog, dossing on IRC and talking about Debian! 
* zyga looks at his dog
<zyga> ;-)
<sivang> sladen: seems like you're in the Debian UK BBQ ? ;-)
<sladen> sivang: score!
<sivang> hehe
<sladen> Burgundavia: in fact, mjg59 is sitting in the garden, dossing on IRC and talking about Debian too.  I think he was next to keybuk the last time I looked
<Burgundavia> sladen: right. Which garden is this?
<sladen> Burgundavia: http://wiki.earth.li/DebianParty2006
<Burgundavia> right, slackers ;)
<quail> SysInfo: Linux 2.6.17-6-686 |  Dual Pentium III (Katmai) 549.155 MHz | Bogomips: 2198.15 | Mem: 553/757M [||||||||||]  | Diskspace: 26.48G Free: 10.98G | Procs: 103 | Uptime: 5 days 3 hrs 19 mins 46 secs | Load: 0.61 0.43 0.34  | Screen: Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA G100 [Productiva]  AGP (rev 02) @ 1152x864 (24 bpp) | eth0: In: 381.61M Out: 169.04M 
<sladen> quail: please don't do that here
<quail> sladen: blah
<sladen> quail: this is the Ubuntu development channel.
<quail> sladen: oops sorry wrong channel
<exobuzz> Sysinfo: Commodore 64, 64kb Ram, VIC II, 6581 SID, etc :)
<zyga> heh ;] 
<quail> sladen: sorry i thought i was in another ubuntu channel
* quail changes channel
<Mez> what ? just because I joined ?
<exobuzz> when I die, I want my life's worth of knowledge and experience transferred into my c64. And with luck, there will be 16kb free for a game.
<sladen> Mez: nope,
<quail> ehhe
<Mez> evening sladen
<kagou> hi
<Keybuk> I appear to have broken madduck :)
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: physically or mentally?
<Keybuk> physically
<Keybuk> sadly
<Keybuk> uh
<Keybuk> I mean MENTALLY
<Keybuk> oops
<bddebian> hehe
<Keybuk> it turns out that upstart, to be uploaded to Debian, needs to depend on the experimental libc
<Nafallo> lol
<zul> oops
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: well, breaking two distros is better than breaking one
<Keybuk> three
<Burgundavia> three?
<Keybuk> Fedora appear to be at least interested
<Burgundavia> nice
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: has Novell/Suse even returned your emails?
<Keybuk> it's a little odd actually, everyone's pouncing in a "can you give me an example of an event.d file for a cron script?" kind of way
<Keybuk> and I'm having to do the "whoah! released early, not complete"
<sivang> Keybuk: do you have any idea about GtkComboBoxes ?
<Keybuk> sivang: no
<sivang> Keybuk: okay. I recall you did some gtk programming once , though ;-)
<Keybuk> yeah, but I don't have any idea about it
<Keybuk> I can do it quite successfully
<Keybuk> but I just keep a TAGS file around with references to the complete gnome desktop and platform source
<Keybuk> and whenever I want to know anything, I either find the widget, or an app that uses it
<sivang> Keybuk: TAGS ?
<sivang> okay, I need to find an app that uses GtkCOmboBOx in a customized way, that is using non default CellRenderes
<sivang> Keybuk: can you please help? ;-) ^^
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: you seen the thread on debian-devel about ifupdown rethink?
<Keybuk> sivang: yeah, download the tarballs, unpack them all, generate a TAGS file with etags, etc.
<Keybuk> Burgundavia: no?
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/08/msg00948.html
<Burgundavia> they have wandered into "lets redo NM territory"
<sivang> ouch
<Burgundavia> without actually realizing it
<sivang> ouch^2
<Keybuk> it's not a bad thing
<Keybuk> I'll read that thread once I've finished reading my own press ;)
<bddebian> Keybuk has Press?
* sivang raises an eyebrow as well
<Burgundavia> Keybuk: you are getting press in UWN, which will be out in a few minutes
<Keybuk> bddebian: several people appear to have picked up the upstart blog entry
<bddebian> Ah
<Burgundavia> including osnews
<sivang> Keybuk: would you mind if I explained you a problem I have with suhc a widget, as you might have already solved something like this?
<bddebian> Must be hell to be popular ;-P
<Keybuk> sivang: I really, really cannot answer without doing the kind of research I recommend that you do yourself
<sivang> Keybuk: okay, I understand. thanks for the TAGS tip!
<sivang> hmm, nice, I was sure upstart was something from upstream that we took and improved ..
<sivang> I mean, that Keybuk took and improved.
<Keybuk> nope
<Keybuk> I did discover later that there was an abandoned 0.0.1 daemontools-alike with that name
<sivang> very cool to know it originates by you :-)
<Keybuk> given the lack of development and the author has deliberately abandoned it and decided it was wrong, I decided to not think up a new name
<beshy> Composite by default in xorg-server (ubuntu9) breaks fglrx
<beshy> ;] 
<sivang> Keybuk: no one can blame you :-)
<Burgundavia> beshy: welcome to edgy
<_ion> Let's just fix fglrx, then. After all, we have the source code. </sarcasm>
<beshy> sorry for stating the obvious then ;/
<sivang> beshy: fglrx hasn't worked for me yet with edgy ;-)
<sivang> beshy: so I can't feel the difference 
<beshy> sivang: that's because the new drivers havent been uploaded ;)
<Burgundavia> _ion: there was a new release, that might fix it. But lrm has not been updated yet
<sivang> beshy: ah, well, same to me :p
<beshy> Burgundavia: I'm using the latest, 
<gnomefreak> why is it i keep getting from ff and thunderbird that its already running?
<gnomefreak> newly installed both
<gnomefreak> fixed it i think
<pygi> botox :)
<bluefoxicy> heh
<bluefoxicy> the crash detector always reports the same program
<siretart> pygi: botox?
<pygi> siretart, debian fork of cdrtools :)
<siretart> pygi: I know
<pygi> siretart, I know you know :)
* pygi forgot how cdrecord is called :-/
<OddAbe19> my gnome-panel eats 100% cpu all the time, how do i file a bug?
<OddAbe19> for edgy
<siretart> pygi: currently wodim, 
<siretart> until someone comes up with a better name. 
<siretart> Zomb is still open for suggestions..
<pygi> siretart, right :)
* pygi hopes libburn will once be able to replace entire cdrtools
<siretart> pygi: it will never be able to fully replace it
<siretart> pygi: if you want to try out the current state of libburn, look at cdrskin
<Mithrandir> I solved the problem by giving away all my CD-Rs.
<bddebian> Heh
<pygi> siretart, I am upstream, you know :)
<Mithrandir> DVDs are just so much more pleasant to work with
<siretart> pygi: oh, I didn't know. :) 
<siretart> pygi: how's libburn coming along lately?
<pygi> siretart, very good, very good :)
<siretart> good to hear :)
<pygi> now, you should never make statements like above that it will never be able to fully replace is :)
<siretart> pygi: I should be more verbose about what I meant then. I don't think it is really necessary to support every exotic burning device that cdrecord supports
<bluefoxicy> anyone got a trick for me to run gdb with an LD_PRELOAD on the target
<siretart> pygi: moreover, AFAIK libburn doesn't have a mkisofs equivalent, does it?
<pygi> siretart, libisofs
<pygi> if you think a command-line client, please look: http://libburn.pykix.org/wiki/GenIsoFs
<siretart> oh, I should inform myself better. right.
<pygi> We lack three most notably features, then things will go better
<siretart> looks promising. indeed
<pygi> -tao, -multi, and dvd
<pygi> siretart, it'll probably take some time until we get those features
* sivang dreams about -multi
<pygi> sivang, I know, I know ^_^
<sivang> siretart: when they do get -multi, hubackup will be the first thing to use it :-)
<martoss> hi there
<pygi> sivang, if you could find some docs about multi-session, that would be great ^_^
<pygi> sivang, I dream of -multi for edgy+1, but I kinda doubt :(
<sivang> pygi: can't we just poke the cdrecord code?
<pygi> sivang, we can, I don't want to do so
<pygi> genisofs and cdrskin should make the transition from cdrecord && mkisofs very easy
<pygi> as a middle way to fully using the library itself
<pygi> (the above was to siretart :))
<bluefoxicy> wtf.
<siretart> pygi: since botox will remain GPL (and only GPL), I don't see legal problems in looking at the botox source
<beshy> OddAbe19: it seems to be gam_server puking... a killall gam_server "fixes" it for me
<pygi> siretart, no legal problems, but the code is in state of mess....mkisofs code is almost unreadable...cdrecord is a bit better but still in mess...
<OddAbe19> beshy, no process killed
<OddAbe19> i also don't have debian.menu based off of Bug #52405
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52405 in gnome-panel "gnome-panel eats 50% cpu for half an hour and flickers" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52405
<siretart> pygi: yes, I poked at the code.. 
<siretart> it looks really.. portable...
<siretart> sort of
<pygi> hm, portable in what sense?
<siretart> in JS sense
<pygi> enlight me with what "JS" means :)
<sivang> pygi: I solved it! It was a glade stupidity!
* sivang hugs pygi 
<siretart> pygi: JS == joerg schilling
<pygi> siretart, ah, right :)
* pygi counterhugs sivang 
<bluefoxicy> uh
<bluefoxicy> ok
<pygi> sivang, I don't want to have any code or even get inspired from it if it's from cdrecord or mkisofs
<pygi> siretart, *
<pygi> even if that means I'll spend more time on getting things work properly and getting new features in
<pygi> libburn is advancing at rapid state
<pygi> for now, at least
<pygi> we've got entire libisofs rewrite for example, 5k lines down to 3k lines
<bluefoxicy> someone take a look at this.
<pygi> much simpler and more efficient api :)
<sivang> pygi: is it some license issues with the code in cdrecord ?
<pygi> siretart, no, not licences (now that we have botox), it's just that the code is mess, real mess
<pygi> sivang, *
<pygi> ergh, I started mixing!
<sivang> pygi: what is botox ?
<pygi> sivang, debian fork of cdrtools
<siretart> sivang: svn co svn://svn.debian.org/debburn/nonameyet/trunk
<bluefoxicy> nah, this has got to be my code
<bluefoxicy> I don't see set_selinuxmnt() even allocating anything
<bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/Kg4CWU34.html
<pygi> siretart, I think such a thing will be very hard to maintain unless all distros form a team to coordinate one unified fork
<siretart> pygi: it is meant as a interim solution until libburn and friends become more mature, AFAIUI
<pygi> siretart, I know :)
<pygi> siretart, somebody gimme more development powers then :)
<sivang> pygi, siretart : ah , I recall now pygi told me about it. Very cool
<pygi> sivang, btw. there'll be python extension, there's already some work done on libburn ^_^
<pygi> for libisofs will be later
<pygi> but I've surely told you this before
<sivang> pygi: I think so :)
<pygi> sivang, pm btw. :P
<Kamion> slomo,ajmitch: so ... what are we going to swap out of desktop to make room for the 6MB or so used by mono (due only to tomboy and f-spot)?
#ubuntu-devel 2007-08-20
* lamont wonders if dovecot should not build-depend on drac-dev, or if drac-dev should move to main....
<ProN00b> can anyone file a bug for me ? vino-server (and other vnc servers) aparently depend on an US keyboard layout to work correctly
<lamont> same story with splix and cupsddk
<ScottK> lamont, why?
<lamont> ScottK: because main packages aren't allowed to build-depend on universe packages...
<ScottK> Understand that, but why drac-dev?
<lamont> nfc why dovecot build-depends drac-dev
<ScottK> Ah
<ScottK> I misread.
<ScottK> I missed the not.
<ScottK> Nevermind.
<lamont> ah, ok.
* ScottK is doing a Dapper straight to Gutsy dist-upgrade as an experiment.
<lamont> you had me wondering about your mentation there fir a minute... :-)
<lamont> ScottK: I wonder if they fixed the getty tty issue
<lamont> s/they/someone/
<ScottK> Which one is that?
<ScottK> My Gutsy hard drive died on Friday so I haven't seen anything on the last few days of development.
<ScottK> I had a Dapper CD handy after I got a replacement, thus my experiment.
<lamont> dapper-> feisty would leave you with getty not listening on any serial ttys
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> I've had to remove a lot of stuff to get past the conflicts.
<ScottK> Transitioning to using Upstart seems to be the lowest level sticking point.
<ScottK> Mostly I'm taking notes and I'll try and understand it later.
<xhaker> ScottK, what should i write in a package where the changes were bringing back and fixing a dpatch to fix FTBFS
<ScottK> Do you mean in debian/changelog?
<xhaker> oh, yes.. sorry.
<ScottK> I'd put something like "  * Resurrected nameofpatch.dpact to fix FTBFS (LP: #nnnn)
<ScottK> .dpact/.dpatch
<jwendell> does anybody know what package is responsible for manage the network connections located at Places->Connect to server ?
<lamont> Unpacking x11-common (from .../x11-common_1%3a7.2-5ubuntu6_hppa.deb) ...
<lamont> Can't exec "locale": No such file or directory at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Encoding.pm line 16.
<lamont> neato
<lamont> enigmail needs some love, too: thunderbird-dev(inst 2.0.0.6-0ubuntu1 ! << wanted 2.0.0.0.0)
<johanbr_> jwendell: Appears to be nautilus.
<jwendell> johanbr_, yep, thanks
<Chipzz> ScottK: but you should know that upgrades from dapper to gutsy are not supported? ;)
<ScottK> Chipzz: Absolutely.
<Chipzz> so why do you bother? :)
<ScottK> Eventually upgrades from LTS to LTS +1 will be supported.
<Chipzz> that was the one reason I could see idd
<ScottK> I was curious how ugly it was already.
<Chipzz> but isn't that something to worry about after gutsy is released?
<ScottK> Worry more, yes, but if there was something that could be dealt with now, why not?
<ScottK> I wouldn't have bothered, but I had a hard drive die and needed to do a fresh install anyway.
<Chipzz> well if you bother now chances are it will break again, so why bother? :)
<ScottK> On the off chance I'd learn something.
<Chipzz> ok
<LaserJock> knowing that what things are likely to break is a good thing
<ScottK> It appears to fall in the catagory of painful but doable.
<Chipzz> it's your time anyway ;)
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> I had to remove ubuntu-minimal.  That was kind of interesting.  Fortunately not for anything I was actually using.
* Chipzz thinks we should really do something about kernel size
<Chipzz> this is growing out of proportion
<Chipzz> 110MB for linux-image + linux-restricted modules + linux-ubuntu-modules 2.6.22
<mjg59> Drivers are large.
<mjg59> Hard drives are larger.
<desrt> mjg59; found the problem i was having earlier
<mjg59> desrt: Mm?
<desrt> mjg59; the dynamic linker does mprotect() to make the code read-write then does mprotect() again to make it readonly for purposes of performing relocations against the text section
<desrt> so you see "dirty private readonly" pages as a result of that strange sequence of events
<mjg59> Hm. I'm not entirely clear on why that follows.
<desrt> well... it wants to be able to write to code to perform relocations... but it also wants the code readonly at runtime
<desrt> so it's a fairly reasonable thing to do
<mjg59> Oh, so the dirty pages are just relocation data?
<desrt> ya
<LaserJock> Chipzz: yeah, I've found that my usual 100MB for /boot doesn't work so well anymore
<mjg59> Makes sense
<desrt> i accidentally linked some stuff in that wasn't -fpic
<Chipzz> mjg59: like LaserJock pointed out, some people have seperate / or /boot 's
<mjg59> /boot is unimportant. The core kernel size has increased by an insignificant amount.
<Chipzz> well it's /lib that's taking up all the space for me
<Chipzz> I was just looking through the list of linux-image when my laptop crashed hard
<Chipzz> it just shut down power with no warning at all
<Chipzz> like an empty battery, except it's plugged in to an outlet
* Chipzz suspects ipw2200
<mjg59> Or broken hardware
<Chipzz> just had an oops with the previous kernel
<mjg59> Oopses don't shut your machine down
<Chipzz> they don't
<mjg59> PCI bus errors don't shut your machine down
<Chipzz> but the bug can manifest itself in some other way in a different kernel version
<Chipzz> like a kernel panic
<Chipzz> which still shouldn't have shut down the hw
<mjg59> There's no especially plausible way for a driver bug to shut your machine down
<desrt> reboot is easy... shutdown is quite difficult
<Chipzz> anyway
<mjg59> Oh, yeah, at least half a dozen different ways of triggering a reboot
<mjg59> Power off requires specific writes to specific io ports
<Chipzz> most likely broken power connector or something
<mjg59> Or memory registers
<Chipzz> anyway
<Chipzz> why do we have atm or watchdog modules in the -generic kernel?
<Chipzz> shouldn't that be something for the -server kernel?
<mjg59> No?
<mjg59> The -server kernel is about tuning, not (for the most part) functionality
<mjg59> But we could remove "inappropriate" modules, which might save you 10MB or so
<mjg59> (The 1980s called, they'd like their hard drive back)
* ScottK bought a notebook hard drive today.  The smallest they had at the store was 120 GB.
<mjg59> 1.8" is still limited to 80GB or so
<ScottK> This was 2.5"
<Chipzz> ScottK: this is more about the size of partitions than the size of the hard-disk as a whole
<LaserJock> ScottK: the smallest?? That's what my desktop hard drive was :-)
<LaserJock> Chipzz: yeah, but Ubuntu defaults to just /
<ScottK> Yeah.  That's the smallest they had in 2.5".
<mjg59> Chipzz: People who partition their hard drive are (in general) going to lose
<LaserJock> I guess it's my fault for partitioning my hard drive up
<mjg59> If you partition your drive manually, you're claiming that you have a good idea about what the future is going to involve
<LaserJock> which I don't like, but that's the way it is these days
<Chipzz> still not a valid reason to discard the size of the kernel etc is irrelevant
<LaserJock> Chipzz: I'm guessing it's not discarded
<LaserJock> but less of a factor
<mjg59> Chipzz: Given the choice between functionality and 1% of your hard drive, we're going to choose functionality
<LaserJock> right
<Chipzz> a lot could be done with a little intelligent splitting of linux-restricted-modules I think
<mjg59> No.
<mjg59> Splittling packages requires a huge increase in maintenance load.
<Chipzz> mjg59: I'm notg suggesting dropping functionality; I'm suggesting looking at the split we have wrt udeb's and consider to use at least some of it for the regular debs too
<ScottK> What matters is how much goes into RAM, not what's on the HD.
<mjg59> Chipzz: And, as I said, that would require significant extra effort
<Chipzz> mjg59: how so? like I said, we already have that split for the udebs anyway
<mjg59> Chipzz: Not in an especially useful way for restricted, no
<mjg59> I think you underestimate just how stupidly big the modules in restricted are
<Chipzz> mjg59: consider this: a very common scenario is a laptop with ipw* + nvidia chipset
<Chipzz> but ipw* is in linux-ubuntu-modules and nvidia is in linux-restricted-modules
<mjg59> And the consequence is that the user has ~100MB less hard drive space than they did previously
<mjg59> Assuming that they have multiple kernels installed
<mjg59> (I'll freely admit that our tendancy to leave kernel images around is a bug)
<Chipzz> if you apply a little common sense to packaging, you could reduce the space requirements drastically
<Chipzz> for example split all the wireless drivers into one package, split nvidia + ati into a seperate package
<mjg59> Your complaint that the kernel team lack common sense is noted, thanks.
<Chipzz> it was not meant that way
<mjg59> Really. The current split is based on a balance of sanity and ability to maintain it
<mjg59> It's not like we decided to waste people's hard drive space
<mjg59> But there's a reason why the default installer doesn't partition your drive
<Chipzz> my point is, this is not going to get any better at all
<Chipzz> it's only going to grow
<RAOF> But so will harddrives
<mjg59> And so are hard drives
<mjg59> So it's really not an issue
<mjg59> The entire distribution is growing
<mjg59> We can only fit it on a CD because of magic nowadays
<Chipzz> the point is that in maybe a year or so 2 kernels may take up about half a gigabyte of space
<Chipzz> do you still think that would be acceptable?
<kylem> i don't think you're in any position to speculate on the size increase of modules in the kernel.
<kylem> so this whole discussion is rather pointless and i'd rather it stop.
<Chipzz> *sigh*
<mjg59> Chipzz: The rate of increase in size of the kernel is commensurate with the rate of increase in size of the distribution as a whole
<kylem> i'm willing to put money on the growth rate being barely linear.
<mjg59> So when it requires 40GB to install Ubuntu, then yes, I'm not going to be especially unhappy about 500MB kernel images
<mjg59> If people repartition their drives in non-standard ways, we can't be expected to support it well
<kylem> linux-image-2.6.15-23-686_2.6.15-23.39_i386.deb                             23-May-2006 19:08   21M
<kylem> linux-image-2.6.22-9-generic_2.6.22-9.25_amd64.deb                        03-Aug-2007 03:03   17M
<kylem> linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-9-generic_2.6.22-9.22_i386.deb          29-Jul-2007 17:03  2.4M
<kylem> end of discussion...
<Chipzz> kylem: you should be looking at the whole of linux-image + linux-restricted-modules + linux-ubuntu-modules
<kylem> lrm is irrelevant to me.
<kylem> and we didn't have lum in dapper.
<Chipzz> kylem: 03:29 < Chipzz> 110MB for linux-image + linux-restricted modules + linux-ubuntu-modules 2.6.22
<Chipzz> (installed size)
<kylem> so, lrm packaged size doubeld
<kylem> but we're shipping 3 nvidiot drivers.
<Chipzz> ok, what this most likely boils down to is adding a few *.install files; would a patch be accepted if I made the effort of coming up with one?
<kylem> nope.
<Chipzz> (*.install files + meta-packages)
<mjg59> Plus the extra dependency handling, plus the increased opportunity for random upgrade breakage
<kylem> besides, i just proved that the size only grew by 8M compressed, across 7 kernel revisions. so seriously, stop making mountains out of molehills.
<Chipzz> kylem: I wasn't arguing about compressed size, which should have been clear
<Chipzz> kylem: no offence, but you're clearly trying to discard the issue with irrelevant arguments
<mjg59> Chipzz: Working code doesn't actually tend to compress by an especially imrpessive amount
<Chipzz> 03:57 < kylem> linux-image-2.6.22-9-generic_2.6.22-9.25_amd64.deb                        03-Aug-2007 03:03   17M
<mjg59> Chipzz: And, y'know, telling half the kernel team that they're inept isn't an especially useful way to convince them to change things
<Chipzz> chipzz@Vertex:/lib/modules/2.6.22-9-generic$ dpkg -s linux-image-2.6.22-9-generic | grep Installed
<Chipzz> Installed-Size: 62504
<Chipzz> it's 3 times the size uncompressed than it's compressed...
<kylem> guess what, the compressability didn't change from dapper.
<mjg59> Which results in an increase of 24MB
<mjg59> Would you care to guess how much ubuntu-desktop grew by in the same period?
<Chipzz> probably a lot more
<Chipzz> mjg59: I did offer to put some time in it myself
<mjg59> So the kernel issue is basically unimportant
<mjg59> Hard drive usage increases between releases
<Chipzz> mjg59: anyway, I'm not trying to insult or be rude to the kernel team here, but I think the issue is being discarded off-hand and too easily
<ion_> Perhaps a good measure would be the size of ubuntu-desktop per the size of a hard disk one can buy at the time of release for the price of 150 bottles of beer. :-)
<mjg59> Chipzz: Well, so far you haven't made any sort of compelling argument whatsoever
<mjg59> The installed kernel size is increasing significantly less slowly than the size of the full installed system
<mjg59> s/slowly/quickly/
<Chipzz> mjg59: this is not meant personally, but I think for example your argument about dependency handling is totally bogus
<mjg59> Chipzz: That's clearly because you've never had to handle packaging l-r-m
<Chipzz> I think it can be handled perfectly well in control by using the right substitution variables
<Chipzz> s;control;debian/control
<mjg59> Chipzz: We've gained 30MB from 6.06 to 7.10. That's ~10MB a release.
<mjg59> Really, that isn't a quantity to care about
<kylem> blame nvidia.
<Chipzz> say you split off linux-wireless-drivers from linux-restricted-drivers; that something which can be handled perfectly by editting debian/control and adding 1 .install file
<mjg59> Chipzz: You still haven't explained /why/
<Chipzz> because the kernel is an ever-growing package, which for the most part stems from adding drivers, only a tiny fraction of which is actually used
<Chipzz> for linux-restricted-modules this also pulls in a lot of firmware
<Chipzz> most of which is not used either
<mjg59> Chipzz: We're talking about 10MB a release. How do you actually see this being a problem in the real world? How much hard drive space do you believe would be saved?
<LaserJock> In a lot of ways I want to have all of lrm available
<Chipzz> depends on how much you split it, but depending on fine you split, a wild guess is you could reduce the installed size frmo 110MB to say 70 or 80MB
<Chipzz> s/on fine/on how fine/
<Chipzz> per installed kernel
<LaserJock> if I add hardware, etc. I don't want to worry about installing some other package
<mjg59> Chipzz: Look. I've spent this evening convincing someone not to kill themselves. I think that was more important to them than the size of LRM was to you, so do you really think you're going to win this argument?
<Chipzz> mjg59: convincing some-one not to kill themselves is a very noble thing, and I applaud you for that
<mjg59> Convincing people not to complain about unimportant aspects of the distribution is also a noble thing
<Chipzz> I can understand something like that tires you, so I guess I'll let the issue rest not to annoy you
<LaserJock> Chipzz: I'm guessing the best way to go would be to send a proposal with some numbers, taking into account maintenance overhead to the kernel list
<Chipzz> LaserJock: I was already told a patch would not be accepted
<LaserJock> Chipzz: you were? I didn't really see that
<Chipzz> 04:01 < Chipzz> ok, what this most likely boils down to is adding a few *.install files; would a patch be accepted if I made the effort of coming up with one?
<Chipzz> 04:02 < Chipzz> (*.install files + meta-packages)
<Chipzz> 04:01 < kylem> nope.
<Chipzz> sorry
<Chipzz> pasted out of order
<mjg59> Chipzz: No, that's based on your false assertion that it would just be a few .install files
<LaserJock> well, you'd want to get the proposal accepted before the patch
<Chipzz> LaserJock: from my experience with open source the best way to get something done is to put your money (patch :P) where your mouth is ;)
<mjg59> If you could demonstrate that we could save a significant amount of installed disk space with approximately no overhead, then we'd probably go for that
<mjg59> But I think it's unlikely that you could
<LaserJock> Chipzz: yeah, but's also good to discuss methodology and feasibility before hand
<Chipzz> mjg59: but if you still think size is irrelevant, how do you marry that with use-cases where space *is* relevant, like embedded use cases, which ubuntu is clearly going for (the lpia architecture)?
<LaserJock> but complaint is with l-r-m
<mjg59> Chipzz: We build the kernels with different config options
<mjg59> Bear in mind that lpia is not an embedded platform in any real way
<Chipzz> I'm not completely up-to-date on the whole lpia thing, but as far as I understand it is related to an embedded spec?
<mjg59> No
<mjg59> lpia has a 900MHz CPU (at least) and more than a GB of storage by default
<mjg59> That's not embedded in any real sense of the word
<LaserJock> hmm, that's about lie my new oscilloscope
<LaserJock> *like
<Chipzz> mjg59: anyway, I do respect you for a lot of the things you do, so I'm going to stop arguing since I'm clearly just annoying you
<Chipzz> I may take a look at this in the future and see if something is possible
<kylem> why don't you just add something like localepurge?
<kylem> and rm modules you don't care about
<kylem> and not make my life much more difficult?
<Chipzz> kylem: I'm not intent on making anyones life more difficult on purpose
<kylem> have you looked at how the linux-image package works? adding install files would make our lives quite a bit more difficult...
<Chipzz> those can most likely be automatically generated, right?
<kylem> right now we just blat them all into one place...
<Chipzz> kylem: correct me if I'm wrong, but you're already doing that for the udebs anyway, right?
<kylem> that's more complicated since the udebs are only done for a single flavour, and only for certain modules.
<Chipzz> so it would involve adding a couple of extra steps similar to the steps necessary for the udebs
<ScottK> Well it looks like I got from Dapper to Gutsy OK and with no extra rebooting along that way.  It was interesting.  I don't think I'll do it again.
<kylem> we only add things to udeb when they're needed for the installer, having to muck about with where modules go everytime a new one is added is a pain in the arse.
<Chipzz> kylem: anyway, if I were to look into it, and come up with a solution that would not involve to much pain on your end, woudl that be acceptable?
<Chipzz> s/to/too
<kylem> so, something like localepurge would be the better solution.
<kylem> i can't stop you from doing anything, nor am i the only person who makes decisions
<kylem> this is a community project...
<Chipzz> but you are clearly opposed to it :P
<Chipzz> anyway something like localepurge sounds like it will mess with the packaging system, ie a very dirty hack
<mjg59> Chipzz: Something like linux-wireless-modules is clearly impossible, given that wireless drivers come from three different source packages
<mjg59> The only significant space-saving you could do would be to split out the nvidia drivers, which becomes a nightmare for different reasons
<Chipzz> mjg59: ok I'm probably too ignorant, but how do they all end up in lrm then?
<mjg59> Chipzz: They, uh, don't?
<mjg59> The only wireless driver in l-r-m is ath_pci
<mjg59> The rest are in l-u-m and l-k
<Chipzz> ipw* used to be in lrm, right?
<kylem> no. never.
<kylem> the userspace daemon is in lrm.
<kylem> s/lrm/& src/
<mjg59> ipw2100 and ipw2200 have always been in l-k
* Chipzz checks and stands corrected
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-devel.log
<fabbione> morning
<lifeless> hi fabbione
<lifeless> hey does anyone know if trackerd is expected to honour the 'indexing preferences' control panel?
<RAOF> lifeless: I believe that it should, but that it requires a restart of trackerd
<ion_> That should be easy to fix.
<ion_> Make trackerd track the config file, make the preferences program kill -HUP trackerd (and make trackerd support reloading config on signal if necessary), or just kill and restart trackerd.
<lifeless> a reboot counts :)
<lifeless> and it ignored the 'dont index' setting :(
<lifeless> I realised this when it used all my memory and VM
<ion_> Wow. Thats a bad bug.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> LaserJock!!!
* Hobbsee hugs LaserJock
<ajmitch> that's when I just removed tracker
<Hobbsee> hiya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't even notice tracker on my computer
<lifeless> yeah, I just removed it too
<lifeless> i have a laptop
<RAOF> It'd be nice if it didn't exhaustively trawl ~/ on every login.
<LaserJock> I wonder if it depends a lot on how much is being indexed
<lifeless> I only have 70G in ~
<StevenK> I daresay most developers have very large $HOME directories.
<LaserJock> I have a 360MB cache and trackerd takes 11MB memory
<lifeless> reading my entire disk basically on every login in is a terrible idea
* lifeless stops ranting
<LaserJock> trackerd doesn't bug me so far, but I have no use for it either
<TheMuso> On notebook speed HDs, it is noticable.
<TheMuso> Don't know about 3.5 drives yet, but I will soon.
<StevenK> Morning pitti!
<StevenK> pitti: How's married life?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> StevenK: wonderful! we had a great weekend
<ajmitch> hey pitti
<fabbione> pitti: that was also the last one :P
<ajmitch> congrats
<pitti> fabbione: hehe
<StevenK> pitti: My answer to that for the first 3 months or so was, "It's the same, except I no longer have a wedding to plan."
<LaserJock> pitti: congrats!
<pitti> StevenK: heh, indeed; that kept us busy for a long time
<pitti> LaserJock: thanks!
<Hobbsee> pitti!
<StevenK> Hrm. Nice. Ex Falso segv's on my laptop.
* pitti hugs Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee hugs pitti back :)
<Hobbsee> morning fabbione
<StevenK> Actually, I'm wrong. It segfaults if $DISPLAY is unset.
<StevenK> pitti: Are you back officially? IE, can I bug you about NBS stuff. :-)
<pitti> StevenK: give me some 20 minutes to look for some first photos for the curious folks, then I will
<fabbione> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> pitti: :)
<StevenK> pitti: Sure. Point me at the photos too. :-)
<pitti> ok, first six photos: http://www.piware.de/fotos/Hochzeit-Vorschau/ (I have a real mountain of pics to dig through, and lots are still missing)
<StevenK> Woodchopping!?
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> dholbach!!!
<Hobbsee> pitti: nice!
<dholbach> how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?
<StevenK> Agreed
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<pitti> StevenK: yeah, that's a rite in Germany at least -- the new couple proves that it can achieve something together
<StevenK> dholbach: A woodchuck would chuck all the wood if a woodchuck could chuck wood
<dholbach> StevenK: ahhh, good to know ;-)
<fabbione> pitti: eheh funny
<StevenK> dholbach: And s/would chuck wood\?/could chuck wood?/
<dholbach> maybe
<LaserJock> hmm, is mvo around?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: maybe a little early for th
<Hobbsee> at
<LaserJock> k, but he's not on vacation or anything
<Hobbsee> not to my knowledge, but i dont know such things :)
<pitwalker> have anyone ATI RADEOX X550? !!!
<Hobbsee> pitwalker: i think you want #ubuntu
<pitwalker> no
<pitwalker> current ATI driver is so bad
<pitwalker> I run currentlz xfce4
<pitwalker> and my keyboard map also crashed (y->z, 0->)
<pitwalker> and my console characterset
<Chipzz> pitwalker: this is not the correct place to come complain about bugs in packages; you're probably better off filing a bug
<pitwalker> ok
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<Chipzz> (besides the fact that you don't mention the version of ubuntu you're running)
<dholbach> hey ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> have a good holiday? :)
<pitwalker> this morning is painfullz for me (apt-get * 6) , kernel stops
<pitwalker> I run 7.04 with all updates
<dholbach> ajmitch: absolutely - once I'm through my 30000 new emails, I'll probably write something up about it and post some pictures :)
<pitwalker> AMD 64
<Hobbsee> pitwalker: you know that AMD distribute their drivers, and not us?  if you want to complain about the video drivers, you'd r eally have to go to them.
<pitwalker> i write to AMD
<pitwalker> i'm very sad :-(
<Chipzz> Hobbsee: though I doubt his keyboard settings are related to the ATI driver ;)
<Hobbsee> Chipzz: indeed :)
<Hobbsee> Chipzz: i was merely commenting on the one that hadnt anything to do with us
<pitwalker> before laters ATI driver, these thinks works good
<pitwalker> things
<Chipzz> pitwalker: but even then there's little we can do about the quality of the ATI drivers
<pitwalker> I drop mz ATI card.... Thank for answers, thats all folks :-)
<Chipzz> pitwalker: the big vendors (ATI, NVidia) most likely care more about complaints of big vendors (like dell etc) than about complaints frm individual users or linux distributions
<pitwalker> (Chipzz: sorry I dont understand everything correctly, my english is so bad)
<pitwalker> I hope: the time can solve this issue
<Chipzz> pitwalker: what I'm saying is that big hardware vendors (like dell and ibm etc), which do buy hardware from ati in large quantities, most likely have more leverage in getting bugs fixed (though this is quite off-topic)
<pitwalker> :-)
<StevenK> pitti: At your leisure, bonfire, gaphor-lib, iceape-calendar, libgig3c2 and libmtp5 can be NBS'd out.
<pitti> StevenK: thanks, done
<Hobbsee> morning sabdfl
<sabdfl> hey Hobbsee
<sabdfl> i'm always envious of people in timezones further ahead
<sabdfl> feels like they are somehow getting a peek at the future all the time
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: just move to australia.
<sabdfl> not sure they would have me
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: incidently, it makes me very good at predicting the future :P
<sabdfl> i understand they disapprove of gentlemen's clubs
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: the long plane flights long take away any of hte timezone benefits
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: you're all turning up now, and it's 5pm.
<Hobbsee> i'd find it hard to know about the gentleman's clubs, oddly enough :P
<StevenK> pitti: Thanks
* StevenK kicks Tomcat, and it's Debian maintainer.
* Hobbsee grumbles.
<pygi> Hobbsee, dont grumble
<dholbach> hey mvo!
<mvo> hey dholbach!
<Hobbsee> pygi: apparently alt+q is a shortcut for quit.
<Hobbsee> i really should disable that.
<pygi> dholbach is alive!
<\sh> dholbach: moins..how was your holiday? :)
<dholbach> \sh: absolutely fantastic - thank you
<Riddell> Mithrandir: could you give back kdepim?
<pitti> Riddell: nothing to give back, it's in depwait
<Riddell> pitti: manual dep wait, and has been all weekend
<infinity> Riddell: "manual" dep wait means the buildds put it on dep-wait because the package isn't available.
<Riddell> infinity: it's now available
<infinity> Riddell: Without even looking, I'll give 20-to-1 odds you have a main source dep-waiting on a universe binary.
<infinity> Riddell: If it's available, it'll be retried, no intervention required.
<Riddell> libopensync-dev installs fine for me with only main packages
<Riddell> it's a provides from libopensync0-dev, could that confuse it?
<infinity> Oh, hrm, that could be broken code in soyuz.
<infinity> Alright, I'll hand it back manually for now.
* dholbach hugs infinity
<Hobbsee> what, more of it?  :P
<StevenK> infinity: Ping!
<StevenK> infinity: libnss-db, etc, etc, after UVF, etc, etc. :-P
<Kopfgeldjaeger> pitti: what's the state of this "mirror" system (wl_apsta.o)? i am not sure if i want to keep this all the time on the server (i do not have unlimited traffic ;) ) *g
<pitti> Kopfgeldjaeger: oh, that was your's?
<pitti> Kopfgeldjaeger: Debian changed the URL, I'll probably use that then
<Kopfgeldjaeger> pitti: yes, atm it is not a problem (only 1 gb in some days, i have 20GB free traffic)
<pitti> that's quite big indeed
<spike> hi
<spike> Package: ubuntu-xen-desktop-amd64
<spike> Description: Xen software for running on desktops. This package will install a suite of software for running Xen on servers.
<spike> that's slightly confusing to me
<spike> should that be filed as a bug?
<spike> this is ubuntu-server, feisty
<Mithrandir> yes
<Mithrandir> it's the same in gutsy
<geser> spike: already filed as a bug
<geser> I've an updated package ready any will upload it in a few minutes
<spike> oh, awesome
<Lutin> pitti: can you give-back foptions and gmult please ?
<pitti> Lutin: done
<Lutin> thanks
<spike> geser: uhm, ok, so that fixes the description, but leaves out the problem of xen on servers... is there anything palnned for it? an ubuntu-xen-server would be nice
<Lutin> pitti: can you also give-back mozilla-bonobo please ?
<spike> uhm, it's actually in universe... I wonder why it doesnt show up with search
<pitti> Lutin: done
<Lutin> pitti: thanks
<mdz> mvo_: for some reason, switch to workspace doesn't seem to work on my laptop, though it works on my desktop
<mvo_> mdz: could you please check if gotovp is part of your plugins on the laptop? either in gconf-editor (/apps/compiz/general/allscreens/options/active_plugins) or with ccsm (compizconfig-settings-manager)?
<mdz> mvo_: ok, will check it tonight
<mvo_> mdz: thanks!
<geser> Mithrandir: can you also move ion3-mod-ionflux to multiverse?
<Mithrandir> geser: I thought I did, redoing
<geser> thanks
<Mithrandir> geser: done
<spike> ok, problem is ubuntu-xen-server doesnt exist for amd64, that's why it wasnt showing up
<mvo_> asac: I use network-manager in manual configuration mode and it displays "no connection" again (this worked a couple of days ago). do you know about this?
<asac> mvo_: hmm ... how many interfaces do you have?
<mvo_> asac: two
<asac> mvo_: which one does it map to the applet when it works?
<asac> mvo_: i don't know exactly about manual configuration ... but otherwise it cannot really deal with two active connections.
<mvo_> asac: it worked with a older versions, there it was assuming that manual connection is a different state and that it means the machine is connected
<mvo_> asac: currently e.g. pidin does not login
<mvo_> asac: it says "waiting for network"
<asac> mvo_: do you remember with which version it worked reliably?
<mvo_> asac: no I can try to figure it out from my upgrade logs, I just remember that I have seen a patch for manual configuration some time ago that used to be part of the package
<asac> ah
<asac> let me look
<asac> but that patch is still in there iirc
<asac> hmm its still applied
<asac> mvo_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/21_manual_means_always_online.diff
<asac> mvo_: interesting is that again ... people fail to initialize fields ... not that it should matter here
<asac> mvo_: i will take a closer look now ... this patch looks interesting ;)
<mvo_> asac: I think it was in Preparing to replace network-manager 0.6.5-0ubuntu7 (using .../network-manager_0.6.5-0ubuntu9_i386.deb) ...
<asac> mvo_: can you say that it never works now ... or is there some randomness in it?
<asac> mvo_: can you say that i always worked with ubuntu7 ... or is there some randomness ;) ?
<mvo_> asac: it seems to never work now
<asac> ok ... did you try to restart network-manager?
<asac> (i think you did ... just asking to confirm)
<mvo_> asac: I'm not sure about the exact version when it worked, but I think when it worked, it worked (take it with a grain of salt, I suspend/resume this machine a lot, so there might have been a old version runing)
<mvo_> asac: restarting seems to have no effect
<asac> damn ... can you try ubuntu7 ?
<mvo_> asac: I ca do that, give me a bit
<Utnubu> hi all
<asac> mvo_: both interfaces configured static?
<asac> mvo_: whatever i do it works for me here ... hmm
<mvo_> asac: yes
<asac> mvo_: let me reboot with that configuration
<mvo_> asac: I see "no network connection" in the applet
<Utnubu> Is the bug known that it isn't possible to restart gdm on Gutsy live cd?
<seb128> Utnubu: yes
<seb128> Utnubu: is there any need to restart gdm there?
<Utnubu> ok, it happens since some weeks
<Utnubu> Yes, if I change the graphic driver
<pitti> Utnubu: ctrl+alt+backspace should do
<Utnubu> Not if X crashes because it doesn't work with the settings.
<seb128> ?
<Utnubu> the problem is, that the latest daily uses vesa per default. The standard one uses i810 but I need intel driver for external monitor.
<seb128> switch to a vt1, edit the config, switch to gdm, ctrl-alt-backspace?
<Utnubu> If I restart X with ctrl + alt + backspace and X couldn't start because of some problems I couldn't restart X after xorg.conf change in console
<mvo_> asac: joy! ubuntu7 does not build for me ./
<asac> mvo_: build? can't you try the debs?
<asac> mvo_: anyway ... how does it fail?
<mvo_> asac: I can't find  them
* Yagisan waves to pitti 
<mvo_> asac: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34383/
<pitti> hi Yagisan
<infinity> mvo_: (No, I don't need this, this is for if you ever mainline the bi-arch feature) How hard would it be to make apt be able to pin on an arch?
<mvo_> infinity: no idea
<infinity> mvo_: So, if lpia and i386 both have the package, but i386's is newer, I still get the lpia one.
<Yagisan> pitti, I'm really wishing I had an intel pcie card right now. my evil nvidia card isn'y supported by any of gutsys drivers
<asac> mvo_: ah
<infinity> mvo_: Academic currently, cause I'm removing the bi-arch apt from production today, but I think it'd be required for mainlining the feature (which I'd like to do)
<mvo_> infinity: I think it should be not very hard, it could be done in a similar way as experimental, but adding the non-automatic attribute
<asac> mvo_: you need a patch ... because druid was deprecated in gnome
<mvo_> infinity: I'm currently a bit busy, but I would like to get biarch done nicely at some point too
<infinity> mvo_: Yeah, it's hardly critical, like I said, I'm pulling it out of production today anyway.
<infinity> mvo_: But if you can mail me a pointer to the branch the bi-arch stuff is on, I could perhaps mull it over in my copious "free time" and clean some bits up.
<asac> mvo_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/41e_fix_vpn_ftbfs_dont_disable_gnome_deprecated.patch ... just drop that in patches
<mvo_> infinity: ok, will do :)
<cjwatson> triggers got implemented!
* cjwatson should go on holiday more often
<tseliot> hi! Can I bother you for a second about a bug I think I have solved?
<infinity> iwj: Say, do you know anything about dpkg? :P
<tseliot> the bug I'm talking about affects nvidia-glx-new
<infinity> tseliot: Is the bug filed?
<infinity> tseliot: If so, you can follow up to the bug with your solution.  If not, you can file the bug, and then do so...
<tseliot> Sure, and I have provided 2 patches as well:
<tseliot> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20/+bug/98641
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 98641 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 "[nvidia-glx-new]  NVidia driver missing libwfb" [High,Confirmed] 
<tseliot> It affects both Feisty and Gutsy
<ogra> bryce, seb128, i seem to not be able to use gnome-screensaver recently on thin clients ...
<seb128> ogra: what happens when you try?
<ogra> grr, my copy paste is broken it seeem
* ogra tries to copy the error
* ogra curses x2x
<ogra> seb128, i get an 'XF86VidModeClientNotLocal'  gdk/X error
<seb128> looks like an xorg issue
<ogra> thats why i had bryce in the ping ;)
<ogra> seb128, i was wondering if consolekit could have any influence here
<seb128> not likely
* ogra is still unsure how well that workswith the ltsp ssh connections)
<cjwatson> iwj: is anyone writing a man page for dpkg-trigger already?
<asac> mvo_: if you need amd64 packages ... just let me know ... the build just finished ;)
<mvo_> asac: building now
<cjwatson> iwj: if you'd like a test case, I'd be happy to try it out in man-db; that's just a file trigger on /usr/share/man and I don't think any package creates anything there in maintainer scripts so it should be entirely straightforward
<cjwatson> (and it's not essential for system boot or anything like that)
<ImNOTcesarefranc> mvo: I hope there was not misunderstanding Michael? My last email was meant to help you
<mvo> asac: no, same problem with -7
<mvo> ImNOTcesarefranc: the one about the mentoring? no problem, I don't think there was a misunderstanding :)
<ImNOTcesarefranc> mvo: cool! thanks
<cjwatson> iwj: since trigger support in man-db is optional (in the sense that it just puts us back to the state we're in now where your apropos database is sometimes out of date and occasionally people get a bit confused but it's not a disaster), do you have any objection if I omit the versioned dependency on the trigger-supporting dpkg?
<asac> mvo: wierd ... did you edit your interfaces file by hand or through nm-applet?
<mvo> asac: I think manually
<asac> can you post it?
<keyes> mpt, are you here ? :)
<iwj> cjwatson: No, that's entirely fine.
<iwj> cjwatson: You can omit that dependency if your update script thingy works anyway.
<iwj> man page> No, I should do that.  It won't be very long.
<mpt> keyes, hi
<mpt> keyes_, what's up?
* cjwatson shoots his ISP
<cjwatson> forgotten how to route to Freenode
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: dont.  it behaves worse.
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: trust me.
<keyes_> mpt, have you received my messages ?
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: it's more fun when it makes your phone fall over as well, though.
<mpt> keyes_, messages to where?
<keyes_> here but i've network issues
<keyes_> i've copy / Pasted them in private
<mpt> keyes_, perhaps when you reconnected you didn't identify with NickServ again
<keyes_> sure
<cjwatson> iwj: thanks. Does http://people.debian.org/~cjwatson/tmp/man-db.triggers.diff look reasonable?
<keyes> i must go away for some minutes i'll be back ^^
<cjwatson> iwj: I noticed in today's upgrade that I got the following sequence of events near the end: configure initramfs-tools, "update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-9-powerpc"; configure udev, apparmor, usplash, each gives "update-initramfs: deferring update (trigger activated)", and then "Processing triggers for initramfs-tools ..." "update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-9-powerpc"
<cjwatson> iwj: should initramfs-tools make use of its own trigger?
<cjwatson> iwj: definitely a huge improvement already though
<infinity> cjwatson: I imagine it should use its own trigger, yes.
<cjwatson> iwj: (i.e. the test plan in the spec will currently fail since update-initramfs happens twice rather than once)
<xhaker> iwj: good work. I've seen triggers mentioned on dpkg changelog but didn't know it was that cool :D
* Hobbsee waves to elmo
<cjwatson> W: man-db: unknown-control-file triggers
<cjwatson> hah
<cjwatson> iwj: (I'll fix that in lintian once it lands in Debian dpkg)
<iwj> cjwatson: What does your postinst do if it's not "triggered" ?
<elmo> hi Hobbsee
<iwj> You still need to run mandb on configuration.
<cjwatson> iwj: yes, it does that
<cjwatson> that's subject to debconf though for various reasons
<iwj> cjwatson: OIC what you mean.
<cjwatson> and also doesn't necessarily need to be done on every upgrade
<iwj> Hmm.  I think there's a problem here which is that a package isn't considered interested in triggers until the postinst completes.
<cjwatson> iwj: is that "while state is unpacked" or "until the package has been configured at least once"?
<iwj> Maybe I should change that.
<cjwatson> iwj: perhaps consider it interested, but defer the activation of the trigger until after the postinst completes
<cjwatson> iwj: I can see why you might not want to run triggers while the package is only unpacked ...
<ion_> dholbach: Whats the reason for Tangerine not inheriting Tango anymore?
<iwj> The former.
<iwj> (And the relevant state is `half-configured or any worse state'.
<iwj> No, the question is whether they're even recorded.
<iwj> I had the idea that running the postinst would do all of the triggers and that therefore there was no point tracking them if we're going to postinst configure.
<dholbach> ion_: lapo thinks that the tangerine icons look better with the new gnome ones
<dholbach> ion_: I did it on his request
<iwj> If successful `postinst configure' doesn't mean there are now no triggers pending then it's not at all clear why the triggers script is the postinst script at all ...
<ion_> dholbach: Alright, thanks.
<iwj> To avoid the double-activation I can make the is-interested criterion include `half-unpacked because we are running the postinst'.
<iwj> I think in fact I may already have done that.
<iwj> I mean, half-configured of course.
<ion_> Not only an away nick, but one for being *right back*? What is the world coming to? :-)
<iwj> Oh dear, ENOSPC.
<iwj> Well I suppose Monday after FF is a good time to install that new 300G disk.
<cjwatson> iwj: making configure not a superset of triggers would be useful for the update-initramfs case above
<cjwatson> err triggered
<iwj> Yes.
<cjwatson> triggered made sense in postinst, but more because it's a step beyond configuration than because it's a step that's part of configuration
<cjwatson> I'm not sure that makes sense to anyone else
<ion_> I take it having dpkg run package.postinst trigger name-of-trigger was considered and deemed bad?
<cjwatson> ion_: modulo spelling, that's what it does
<iwj> initramfs's postinst configure already is a superset of its triggers; the problem is just that it would be nice to do it only once.
<iwj> Your problem with mandb is that your postinst wants not to be a superset of the triggers - ie, sometimes not run mandb.
<cjwatson> initramfs-tools> yes, it is, but I suggest that perhaps it should not be if triggers are active
<cjwatson> it's possible that nowadays it would be OK to run mandb -pq on all upgrades
<cjwatson> (or -cq if the db format changes)
<cjwatson> it used to be a lot slower than it is now
<iwj> Changing this fact about triggers would involve some thought.
<cjwatson> hmm, still takes 18s of real time here though
<iwj> I think I would rather leave that to a later occasionl.
<iwj> s/ionl/
<iwj> s/occas/&ion
<cjwatson> though if there's nothing to do, it takes 0.4s
<cjwatson> so perhaps it is indeed man-db that should change
<iwj> Certainly if you have a way of telling whether you need to do anything then my proposal above (enabling a package to trigger itself) would be sufficient.
<iwj> (sufficient for being able to write code in the package which always runs things the minimum number of times)
<cjwatson> also I wish man-db did not have to use that perl splat to drop privileges
<iwj> Depends: chiark-really   :-)
<cjwatson> maybe I should. Or just get really into debianutils and then I wouldn't have to worry about promoting yet another package to Priority: important ;-)
<cjwatson> BTW surely really does not work properly on Ubuntu at the moment
<cjwatson> at least new installations where /etc/inittab won't exist
<iwj> cjwatson: It won't work for escalation, but that's probably OK.  It will work for what you want to do.
<iwj> You want to get with-lock-ex into debianutils too.
<iwj> If you go that route.
<cjwatson> I won't go that route for now, but maybe at a later date yes
<cjwatson> another copy of that code has been in man-db for five years so nobody will care much if it stays there a while longer
<cjwatson> what would the right fix for really+upstart be? Write permissions to /etc/event.d/ ?
<iwj> *snort*
<cjwatson> seems roughly equivalent
<iwj> Tempting to say `write permissions to /'.
<iwj> I just picked inittam because it was likely to be (a) preserved and (b) not liable to accidents in the way that `/' or `/etc' would be.
<iwj> accidents>  rm -rf *  in the wrong directory
<cjwatson> I think I'll remove the stuff that sometimes starts mandb in the background too. It can only happen when not running from debootstrap, and nearly always man-db will be installed from debootstrap or else when very few packages are installed so it won't take very long anyway.
<asac> hmmm ... is ooo again broken in gutsy?
<ImNOTcesarefranc> asac: you mean things like bug 133484 or something more important?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133484 in openoffice.org-voikko "Problems upgrading in gutsy current (as of 2007-08-19)" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133484
<asac> ImNOTcesarefranc: ... no i don't see upgrade problems ... for me oowriter doesn't start at all and girlfriend needs to work on my laptop :/
<ImNOTcesarefranc> asac: I see, mine starts just fine.
<asac> wierd
<asac> calc: already awake?
<geser> asac: oowriter starts fine for me too (2.3.0~src680m224-1ubuntu2, AMD64)
<seb128> asac: to you have openoffice.org-gnome installed?
<asac> seb128: i can take a look ... in a few minutes
<asac> thanks for the hint
<seb128> asac: you're welcome
<asac> is it required?
<seb128> asac: it's a workaround for the hang issue which is happening recently
<seb128> the real bug is that openoffice uses gdk functions without calling gdk_init()
<asac> is it so difficult to add that line?
<asac> e.g. so difficult that a workaround is worth it?
<seb128> asac: from what I read calc has a patch ready
<seb128> asac: adding the line is not hard, what takes time is likely to build openoffice to test a change
<asac> seb128: ok.
<seb128> I don't maintain openoffice nor use it, I was just giving the workaround in case it helps you ;)
<asac> seb128: sure ;)
<DaBonBon> can someone please look at this bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/132603
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132603 in uswsusp "Please update the uswsusp package" [Wishlist,Triaged] 
<DaBonBon> it's almost time
<DaBonBon> i'm sure this small change would pass through the freeze :(
<ScottK> DaBonBon: It's a Universe package, so #ubuntu-motu would be the channel for that.
<DaBonBon> thanks ,ScottK
<mjg59> DaBonBon: No. It's not a trivial merge, and given that uswsusp isn't installed by default it's not clear to me how it could influence out of the box behaviour
<DaBonBon> mjg59: err, why is not a trivial merge ?
<DaBonBon> mjg59: it won't influence out of the box behaviour. it influences behaviour once installed, the whitelist
<asac> seb128: it worked ... my gf is now happy ... thanks!!!
<seb128> you're welcome
<ogra> seb128 makes our GFs happy :
<ogra> :)
<ogra> *g*
<seb128> heh
<mjg59> DaBonBon: Because we carry heavy local patches
<mjg59> DaBonBon: Ideally our uswsusp package wouldn't ship the s2ram binary
<DaBonBon> mjg59: but just updating whitelist.c ?
<mjg59> No. If you have machines where s2ram works and our existing code doesn't, please file bugs.
<DaBonBon> s2both is really weird.. it does a full hibernate
<DaBonBon> mjg59: yes, i've got such machines
<mjg59> DaBonBon: Bug numbers?
<DaBonBon> not filed, because it works with s2ram
<mjg59> No. That's not the correct answer.
<mjg59> Please file bugs.
<mjg59> And I'll upload a new uswsusp without s2ram
<cypherbios> mvo: thanks for sponsoring that upload
<DaBonBon> i don't see the point - kernel suspend and hibernate breaks with every point release
<mjg59> ?
<DaBonBon> never worked for me, except on some lucky days
<mjg59> s2ram uses exactly the same codepaths
<Hobbsee> DaBonBon: and no one will bother fixing it without you filing decent bugs about it.
<Hobbsee> DaBonBon: someone stole the psychic pony
<DaBonBon> and i don't see why ubuntu can't use uswsusp by default ?
* ogra thinks compiz is dangerous ... i find myself plaing with the tasklist just to watch the windows shuffle ...
<DaBonBon> mjg59: it works once in a while, but usually just resumes with screwed up xorg .. which leaves the machine unresponsive
<cypherbios> mvo: I'm upgrading my system now and I've noticed that ubunfox (which is in main and is dependency of ubuntu-desktop) depends on apturl (which is currently in universe). Isn't it a problem?
<mjg59> DaBonBon: Bug number?
<DaBonBon> mjg59: you're repeating yourself .. really, now that you've told me, i'll diagnose a bit and file a bug
<mvo> cypherbios: it needs to be prompted
<mjg59> Thank you
<mjg59> Oh, wow.
<DaBonBon> mjg59: and when you say code paths that ubuntu uses, you really just mean cat disk > /sys/power/state" don't you ?
<mjg59> This package seems to be very broken.
<mjg59> DaBonBon: No, I meant suspend to ram.
<DaBonBon> ok, cat mem > /sys/power/state then
<mjg59> No, I meant the code in /etc/acpi
<DaBonBon> oh, i see
<DaBonBon> i do just that .. replace the cat > .. line by s2ram
<mjg59> No, that's broken.
<DaBonBon> oh well .. god knows when kernel suspend will improve .. i don't understand why they just don't merge suspend2 in .. anyway, i'll file a bug, mjg59
<mjg59> s2ram *is* kernel suspend
<Mithrandir> uswsusp seems kinda pointless for suspend to ram.
<DaBonBon> mjg59: i meant the normal way of cat .. i'm sorry if i'm using the wrong terminology ..
<DaBonBon> Mithrandir: why ?
<mjg59> DaBonBon: It's *the same code*
<DaBonBon> mjg59: then how come s2ram always works, and cat mem > never does ?
<mjg59> DaBonBon: I don't know. When you've filed the bug report I might have some idea.
<DaBonBon> well, i should file a bug
<DaBonBon> mjg59: i've modified some files in /etc/acpi .. can you please tell me how do i revert them to original ?
<Mithrandir> DaBonBon: what does it buy you in the s2ram case?  It's meaningful for hibernate because you can do stuff like add a progress bar or add support for aborting, but you can't really about a suspend as it takes a second or two.
<DaBonBon> oh, never mind .. i had backups
<DaBonBon> Mithrandir: oh i really don't care about bars and other bling bling .. it's just that it _works_
<DaBonBon> ok, while we're at it, let me file the bug :)
<DaBonBon> though i think it's too late for gutsy already ?
<DaBonBon> please note i am using kubuntu .. though i wonder if it really makes any difference
<DaBonBon> mjg59: what package shall i file it agains /
<mjg59> If it works with s2ram but not the standard stuff, against acpi-support
<DaBonBon> thank you
<mjg59> Then try altering the settings in /etc/default/acpi-support
<cjwatson> DaBonBon: as far as 'cat mem >' goes, you're not attempting to do 'sudo cat mem > /sys/power/state' are you?
<mjg59> Also, s/cat/echo/
<cjwatson> er yes
<mjg59> cjwatson: No, it's done in the script
<DaBonBon> cjwatson: no, i'm using the gui to suspend
<DaBonBon> cjwatson: the kubuntu kde's gui
<DaBonBon> mjg59: my bug is not at all different from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/43708 .. shall i go ahead and comment in that one, or file a new one ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 43708 in acpi-support "Resume from suspend and hibernate fail when X is running on Fujitsu amilo 7440" [Low,Confirmed] 
* cjwatson unbuggers some of the stuff he did in a hurry before going on holiday
<mjg59> If you've got a Fujitsu Amilo 7400, file it there
<mjg59> Otherwise file it separately
<DaBonBon> ok, mjg59 , i'll file it separately and follow both the debugging guides on the wiki
<DaBonBon> pity i need to quit irc to try it out :-/
<mjg59> Oh argh. This package is utterly broken.
<DaBonBon> mjg59: which one ? uswsusp ?
<mjg59> Yes
<DaBonBon> oh well :-/
<annodomini> If I have a feature request which I would like to submit and track, where is the right place to do that?
<annodomini> Should I submit a Blueprint, or just file it as a bug against the appropriate component?
<ogra> annodomini, i'd start with a whishlist bug
<annodomini> ogra: thanks, will do
<cjwatson> annodomini: blueprints should generally be written by developers after it's determined that the feature is complex enough to require one
* annodomini nods
<cjwatson> we haven't been very clear about this in the past, and so there are an awful lot of inappropriate blueprints
<DaBonBon> mjg59: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/133677
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133677 in acpi-support "System unusable after resume from suspend or hibernate" [Undecided,New] 
<annodomini> I'm pretty sure that this feature would be complex enough to require one (ability to edit partition labels from nautilus, for renaming removable media)
<cjwatson> Setting up intercal (0.26-1) ...
<cjwatson> Processing triggers for man-db ...
<cjwatson> Updating database of manual pages ...
<cjwatson> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/debian/man-db/trunk>$ whatis ick
<cjwatson> ick (1)              - intercal compiler
<cjwatson> iwj: ^--
<cjwatson> annodomini: complex in this case often means interaction between multiple packages
<cjwatson> annodomini: in any case, best left to the developer IMO
<mjg59> DaBonBon: Try disabling SAVE_VBE_STATE
<annodomini> cjwatson: sure thing, just wanted to check
<annodomini> Another question is should I try and track down the bug systems for each upstream package, or just report them in the Ubuntu bug tracker and hope that if necessary they get pushed upstream?
<cjwatson> we generally only ask for the latter, but the former is appreciated if you have skill and time
<DaBonBon> mjg59: all the various bulleted points here which require output - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingACPI - should i attach tem as different files
<DaBonBon> or in a single file ?
<mjg59> DaBonBon: No, just try what I've asked you to do please
<DaBonBon> mjg59: ok
<iwj> cjwatson: That looks good to me.  Do you agree ? :-)
<DaBonBon> mjg59: SAVE_VBE_STATE=false
<DaBonBon> rigjt ?
<mjg59> Yup
<DaBonBon> thanks, i'll brb
<cjwatson> iwj: yep
<cjwatson> iwj: (wasn't a complaint, rather a demonstration)
<iwj> cjwatson: Ah, good :-).
<iwj> Sorry, I'm wrestling with airline websites and everything looks like a problem ...
<DaBonBon> mjg59: ping
<DaBonBon> mjg59: that fix makes suspend work correctly
<DaBonBon> but now hibernate doesn't work at all
<mjg59> DaBonBon: Ok. Could you attach the output of sudo dmidecode to the bug, plese?
<DaBonBon> mjg59: already attached
<DaBonBon> shall i attach anything more ?
<mjg59> DaBonBon: Nope, that should be good
<DaBonBon> ok mjg59 , i just updated the bug .. thanks a lot
<mjg59> No problem
<DaBonBon> mjg59: and if i was a bit rude earlier with s2ram and others, i apologize .. i should've realized that i'm getting wonderful software for free :)
<mjg59> That's ok
<mjg59> The number of different ways to do this is confusing
<ogra> its all about choice :P
<mjg59> Well, I've just limited some of that choice :)
<ogra> yay
<DaBonBon> exactly, and to me as a guy who has no knowledge of kernel and related software, when s2ram works perfectly, i didn't realize that ubuntu uses the same code base
<DaBonBon> mjg59: i'll be off .. thanks for the help .. please tell me if i can provide any more info
<DaBonBon> solving this bug for gutsy would be amazing
<cjwatson> Unable to open binary database %s: %s /usr/share/command-not-found/programs.d/all-multiverse.db (22, 'Invalid argument')
<cjwatson> blink
<nixternal> iwj: I am adding autoconf to the build-dep for kvkbd as that should fix your issue. I just ran the same commands you did on it and it built fine here...sorry for the inconvenience there
<Riddell> carlos: is there anything that can be done about bug 106772, the translation team doesn't seem to be doing it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 106772 in amarok "Errors in Amarok's .po file cause issues with unparsed HTML" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/106772
<iwj> nixternal: Ah, IC.  Right.
<pitti> seb128: bug 132143 approved FYI
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132143 in gimp "GIMP in 64bit Feisty corrupts PSD files" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132143
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<beuno> hello, I'm working on the Tribe5 release page, does anyone know what has changed in Gnome from Tribe4 to Tribe5?   (or anything else you can think of)  D:
<mdz> mvo: urgh, after running CCSM on my desktop it stopped working there as well
<mdz> mvo: ah, it only works when I enable Rotate Cube
<mvo> mdz: keybindings stopped working? and work only with rotate cube, but not wall?
<Riddell> "sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented" is there a way to work around that for a package which build-deps on sun-java6-jdk?
<cjwatson> I thought the buildds were meant to have that preanswered
<cjwatson> infinity: do I remember correctly?
<Riddell> it's in ppa, so could be an issue only there
<geser> Riddell: packages build-depending on the sun jvm have also this problem on the normal buildds
<Riddell> I'd expect so, it's the same buildds after all
<cjwatson> yeah, different chroots though so it was entirely possible
<mdz> mvo: I had rotate cube on, and they were working.  I switched to wall, and it stopped working.  back to rotate cube, and they work again
<carlos> Riddell: as an exception, please, file a bug report on bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta and any of us (Danilo, Jeroen or I) will fix it. Please, add concrete links to the messages you want fixed and with the new translation so we just need to do copy & paste
<Riddell>  /win 20
<Riddell> hmm
<Riddell> carlos: ok, will do
<carlos> Riddell: I guess you already contacted directly with the translation teams for those languages, right?
<Riddell> carlos: the bug is assigned to them
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I didn't look at that field O:-)
<glatzor> beuno: displayconfig-gtk is now part of the desktop seed
<beuno> glatzor: added, thanks, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe5
<mvo> mdz: thanks, I have a look now
<glatzor> beuno: perhaps it would be nice to use screenshots with the default ubuntu theme only
<beuno> glatzor: unfortunately I'm not running Gutsy, so that's basically what I could get my hands on
<highvoltage> !seen Burgandavia
<bryce> ogra, btw, I wasn't able to find anything upstream referring to XF86VidModeClientNotLocal, but if you file a bug (with xorg.conf, Xorg.0.log, lspci -vvnn, and exact steps to reproduce), I can forward it upstream for you
<geser> highvoltage: you mean Burgundavia? Last Seen: 1 week 2 days (11h 4m 47s) ago
<highvoltage> geser: aah, thanks
<ogra> bryce, well i fixed it in gnome-screensaver, fading (at least this way) is a very very bad idea anyway on thin clients
<bryce> ah ok cool
<Riddell> evand: ubiquity upload to come later today?
<Riddell> calc: openoffice upload too?
<evand> Riddell: indeed, quite shortly actually as I'm wrapping up some changes.
<calc> Riddell: hopefully, i'm doing the last bit of testing and then have to update the changelog
<Riddell> you guys rock
<ogra> bryce, indeed that doesnt solve the X issue, i'll have a deeper look after tribe release into that
<bryce> ok
<silvertip257> I'm trying to follow the how-to for making a custom live cd.  rsync is having issues.  "some files could not be transferred (code 23) at main.c(977) [sender=2.6.9] "
<mathiaz> kylem: is there any point to keep the apparmor-source-module package ?
<mathiaz> kylem: it was used to compile the module by hand with modass.
<kylem> no, not really. we can't support people loading things we don't distribute anyway.
<mneptok> kylem: jury's still out on whether we support things we *do* distribute.
* mneptok rows faster
<ajmitch> mneptok: up a brown creek?
<mneptok> ajmitch: i like you, but only as a friend.
<bhale> mneptok: whoa
<evand> anyone want to sponsor an upload to main for me?
<calc> grr this build is taking forever even with ccache
* calc hopes he will have the upload done sometime tonight at this slow speed :\
<evand> if anyone is able to sponsor: http://people.ubuntu.com/~evand/upload/ubiquity_1.5.11_source.changes
* evand steps out briefly
#ubuntu-devel 2007-08-21
<Riddell> evand: uploaded
<evand> thanks Riddell!
<StevenK> infinity: You'll deal with all the lpia builds that failed due to chroot problems?
<infinity> StevenK: Oh, feh.  Yeah, need to fix the buildds to fix that.  Go me.
<calc> got a set of debs to test! :-)
<calc> assuming these work i just need to update changelog and then upload
* Nafallo hides
* calc is testing them himself
<calc> everyone else can test them in gutsy ;)
<Nafallo> argh ;-)
<calc> they work, no hang, yipee :)
<StevenK> And the patch was only 5.4Mb? :-P
<calc> the patch to fix the original patch was like 80 bytes or something
<calc> 2 lines of code change
<calc> bbl, doing the changelog now
<stiv2k> hi
<stiv2k> do i have voice?
<stiv2k> ok
<Nafallo> no
<stiv2k> i have this extremely annoying CUPS problem that all seemed to start when i reformatted my server's hard drive about a month ago...
<stiv2k> the printer just disappears on its own after some aarbitrary amount of time has passed since i added it
<Nafallo> stiv2k: try #ubuntu first
<stiv2k> Nafallo: have
<stiv2k> nobdoy knew anything
<Nafallo> stiv2k: if it is a bug, then file it.
<stiv2k> well i'm not too good at diagnosing this stuff
<infinity> StevenK: Fixed.
<stiv2k> perhaps someone could help me extract some more details before i file the bug
<stiv2k> anyways
<stiv2k> i have to constantly re-add the printer only for it to disappear again later
<StevenK> infinity: Yay! Can you look at libnss-db now? :-)
<Nafallo> stiv2k: or you file a bug and someone tells you what to do... no matter which, this isn't the channel.
<infinity> StevenK: I haven't slept...
<stiv2k> Nafallo: uh huh...where do you propose i file it
<Chipzz> launchpad.net, cups package?
<stiv2k> see i dont know if its CUPS that's the problem
<stiv2k> it almost seems like a USB problem but i cant put my finger on it
<Nafallo> stiv2k: file it against Ubuntu then
<Chipzz> if it isn't then it'll get reassigned
<Nafallo> or that
<Chipzz> but cups sounds like a good starting point
<Nafallo> agreed
<Nafallo> that or Layer1 :-)
<Chipzz> layer1?
<stiv2k> hmm
<stiv2k> alright
<Nafallo> physical layer
<stiv2k> dammit
<stiv2k> launchpad.net keeps timing out tryign to search for bugs
<Chipzz> well I'ld say that since you're not sure the bug is in cups the bug will have to be looked into deeper anyway
<stiv2k> what do you mean?
<calc> yipee, changelog done
<Chipzz> so there's probably not much harm done in filing it without looking for dups then
<stiv2k> its a really strange issue
<stiv2k> Chipzz: oh i was just trying to search for 'cups' bugs to see if anyone else had the same problem
<ScottK> Please look for dups first.
<infinity> There's an ongoing war about that.
<infinity> I'm in the "please don't look for dupes" camp, myself.
<infinity> Because 95% of the "me too" followups I have to bugs are people with DIFFERENT bugs who think they're the same.
<infinity> And then trying to separate that is hell.
<stiv2k> ScottK: what is dups ?
<mjg59> It wouldn't surprise me if it's the USB autosuspend issue
<ScottK> stiv2k: Duplicates.
<stiv2k> oh
<ScottK> infinity does have a point.
<infinity> Marking a bug as a duplicate is trivial.  Trying to break one bug into 5 different ones is a pain.
<stiv2k> ughh
<stiv2k> unfortunately i dont see anyone with the same problem asm e
<stiv2k> which just makes me more weary
<ScottK> BTW, here are the open bugs against cups https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/
<stiv2k> one thing
<stiv2k> i DO remember there being a bug causing cups printers to disappear
<stiv2k> something to do with dbus
<stiv2k> or libdub
<stiv2k> libdbus
<stiv2k> but i heard that word of mouth
<stiv2k> i never actually saw this bug
<calc> i'll have openoffice.org source uploaded in 30m or so
<stiv2k> and i dont know if my problem pertains to that
<stiv2k> forget it -- i can't find any, i'm submitting one
<mathiaz> infinity: Is /etc/apache2/apache2.conf supposed to be overwritten during an apache2 package upgrade ?
<calc> er where am i supposed to dput to... 'jackass'?
<calc> i got a bounce back saying could not find distribute 'UploadQueue'
<calc> er distribution
<ScottK> calc: I just dput to upload.ubuntu.com
<ScottK> It's the default location in Ubuntu's dput.
<calc> ScottK: yea thats what i actually did according to dput info
<calc> but it failed with the following
<calc> Rejected:
<calc> Could not find distribution 'UploadQueue'
<calc> Unhandled exception processing upload: [Errno 13]  Permission denied: '/srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-queue/incoming/upload-20070821-035939-000539/UploadQueue/tmpMMLoBP'
<ScottK> That doesn't sound fun.
<calc> grr and most of the people that could fix it are asleep
<ScottK> Sounds like either you haven't been added to the right whatever it is or it's a bug in the system.
<calc> yea
<calc> well i'm in core-dev so i think i should be able to upload, unless there is something else to do
<calc> i just got added last week though
<calc> seems to be a really bad error message in any case, heh
<mjg59> calc: Hm. It should just be core-dev
<calc> mjg59: ok
<mjg59> I don't know enough about the upload queue to know if it's based on groups.
<calc> ok
<mjg59> Which distribution did you upload to?
<calc> gutsy
<mjg59> What does your dput.conf look like?
<calc> mjg59: http://pastebin.com/d7ad83392
<mjg59> calc: Incoming is /, not /UploadQueue
<calc> fun, i found a bug in a server then it defaults to that in the dput there
<mjg59> Hm. Pretty sure my dput.cf is stock.
<mjg59> calc: dput.cf as shipped is just:
<mjg59> [ubuntu] 
<mjg59> fqdn = upload.ubuntu.com
<mjg59> incoming = /
<mjg59> login = anonymous
<calc> ok
<mjg59> The error message is kind of weird, though
<calc> yea
<infinity> mathiaz: No, it should only be created on a fresh install.  It's a bug if sf broke that...
<mathiaz> infinity: ok. Thks. I'll investigate the releveant bug tomorrow.
* calc uploading openoffice.org-l10n now
<calc> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/1:2.3.0~oog680m1-1ubuntu1
<calc> :
<calc> :)
<ScottK> How long does that take to build on the buildd's?
<mjg59> calc: Woo!
<mjg59> calc: Just in time for freeze
<calc> yep
<calc> well we have a few days left before tribe-5, not like when i did the upload for tribe-4 ;)
<calc> about 10m before the l10n is done uploading
<pitti> Good morning
<kylem> morning pitti
<pitti> hey kylem
<StevenK> Morning pitti
<pitti> hey StevenK
<StevenK> pitti: Would you mind giving gchempaint back on amd64, ia64 and ppc?
<pitti> StevenK: done
<StevenK> pitti: Thanks. Hopefully, they'll build and libopenbabel1 can be killed.
<StevenK> And then I might kill man-di since sear is *still* not sorted out.
<StevenK> pitti: And qobex can be killed if the MIR that kdebluetooth is waiting on gets promoted and kdebluetooth builds...
<bryce> heya pitti
<pitti> hey bryce, how are you?
<pitti> StevenK: oh, a lot of KDEish things were recently approved, right; I'll promote them
<bryce> doing ok.  My new fiancee's moving in this past week
<pitti> bryce: did you get a nice ring?
<pitti> bryce: and congratulations!
<bryce> oh yeah :-)
<pitti> bryce: took a little longer than an hour, I suppose? Took us half a day, in total
<bryce> wow
<pitti> bryce: well, I needed two hours to find an engagement ring, the wedding ring took longer
<bryce> well I'd already picked out the diamond, so it was just the matter of selecting a setting.  We'd already decided on the metal, too
<pitti> ah
* StevenK was trusted to pick out the engagement ring.
<bryce> I'd gotten the diamond in a temporary setting.  Worked out well; she absolutely _loved_ being able to pick out her own engagement ring
<pitti> since my gf didn't know that I was about to ask her, I picked it myself, too
* bryce nods
<bryce> it's hard!
<StevenK> We went out together while I tried to gauge what she liked.
<bryce> on a more topical note...  for backporting patches, how strict should I be?  Is it like with SRU's that they should only be fixes for critical flaws, or are fixes for more minor issues (like man pages, etc.) also acceptable?
<ScottK> Usually backports are done for features, not for fixes, althouth minor fixes would certainly be entertained.
<pitti> infinity: I got a couple of lpia 'chroot problem' FTBFS mails with 'package architecture (lpia) does not match system (i386)'; I guess you are on that?
<StevenK> pitti: I also got a bunch of mails about it, infinity fixed it a few hours ago.
<StevenK> pitti: I suspect he then crashed and went to bed.
<pitti> cool
<StevenK> Because I made the mistake of asking him about libnss-db ...
<StevenK> pitti: Would you mind checking to see if rothera is spinning aimlessly?
<pitti> StevenK: apparently something is wrong with it, but I can't see more than you can
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-devel.log
<rugueux> I need some advice for packaging a multibinary, do somone can give me advice ?
<fabbione> what do you mean by multibinary?=
<rugueux> In fact I want to package iscan, that contain the library, and some gui stuff and plugin
<rugueux> I want to have those elemets in different packages
<fabbione> so you want one source that generates several binary packages
<rugueux> but the make install do install it all at a time
<rugueux> yes
<fabbione> that's not an issue...
<fabbione> look into packages like redhat-cluster-suite
<fabbione> it's a simple example that does that
<fabbione> the make install puts everything in one place
<fabbione> lots of other small bits will move stuff around properly
<fabbione> or also openais
<fabbione> infinity: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8898482/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-lpia.redhat-cluster-suite_2.20070816-0ubuntu1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
<fabbione> infinity: is there anything i should do there?
<rugueux> yes, everythings is in one place, dh_make rule put then everything in ./tmp
<rugueux> I thought it was possible to say in "pkgname".install in debian or something like that which files belong to which package, but I'm not sure
<fabbione> rugueux: yes you can do that.. you use dh_install or dh_move. look at the 2 source packages i mentione
<fabbione> +d
<cjwatson> don't use dh_movefiles please, it's hideously obsolete
<fabbione> oh is it? ok..
<fabbione> then dh_install only
<dholbach> hey seb128!
<seb128> hey dholbach
<rugueux> to use dh_install, I have only to put the files I want to install in debian/pkgname.install ? and uncomment dh_install in rules ??
<rugueux> in my install file I have usr/lib/sane/libsane-epkowa.so.1.0.15 but dh_install is not putting my file into the package
<rugueux> do it is missing something in rules
<cjwatson> rugueux: the upstream Makefile (or something else) also needs to install it into debian/tmp beforehand ...
<cjwatson> rugueux: #ubuntu-motu would be more appropriate for all of this, though
<cjwatson> rugueux: (also, set DH_VERBOSE=1 in the environment to get more verbose information on what debhelper commands are doing)
<rugueux> ok many thanks for your help, I'm going to motu to ask my questions, bye ;)
<blazemonger> is there a way I can disable the loading of the restricted kernel images?
<blazemonger> i'm wanting to tweak my ubuntu to my tastes :)
<Riddell> everyone ready to freeze?
* fabbione puts himself in the freezer
<Hobbsee> Riddell: no!  send me some heat!
<StevenK> Riddell: I thought you were just supposed to declare it?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: did you fix that kdepim upgrade bug?
<seb128> I've still some updates to do but I guess I can get freeze exceptions? ;)
<Hobbsee> seb128: Riddell might be ruthless, and not give them out :P
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I've only seen a but about kdepimlibs
<Riddell> which isn't so important
<cjwatson> blazemonger: you can just remove linux-restricted-modules-* if you like
<pitti> hey seb128
<pitti> moin Riddell
<Hobbsee> Riddell: oh, i thought the bug i pointed you at a couple of days ago was for kde3, not 4.
<seb128> hi pitti
<cjwatson> blazemonger: assuming that's what you mean
<blazemonger> yahy
<Hobbsee> guten tag pitti!
<Riddell> Hobbsee: hmm, seems it is
<cjwatson> blazemonger: note that it will also remove the 'linux' metapackage at the moment, but that's OK
* pitti hugs Hobbsee 
<cjwatson> blazemonger: you'll still have 'linux-image' installed to track upgrades
* Hobbsee hugs pitti :)
<Riddell> seb128: updates for tribe 5?
<blazemonger> ok cool
<blazemonger> thanksw
<blazemonger> you folks seem more my kind ..i'm new to linux but im migrating from amiga's and netbsd
<blazemonger> to PC's and Linux
<blazemonger> so i just reinstall  the linux metapackage
<blazemonger> and everything that got deinstalled
<seb128> Riddell: yes
<cjwatson> blazemonger: right, if you want to put them back again
<cjwatson> blazemonger: I trust you're sure that your system isn't depending on any of the restricted modules for e.g. network access
<blazemonger> yeah
<blazemonger> i like ubuntu but my system just doesnt need that restricted stuff which slows it down
<blazemonger> since im only on a p4 and i know there's tweakis just have to know the distro well
<blazemonger> once i get good at this i'm going to make something like a cross between ubuntu but use more true to linux :)
<cjwatson> gobuntu, which is just getting started, may be to your taste, depending on exactly what you mean by that
<cjwatson> (Ubuntu without restricted bits, basically)
<blazemonger> like have it more like debian
<blazemonger> like more compatible with deb packages
<blazemonger> i only like ubuntu just because it's a slack way to install debian sid hehehe
<blazemonger> is kernel-i686 still valid too?
<cjwatson> blazemonger: Ubuntu doesn't provide anything of the sort, and kernel-image-686 et al don't exist in Ubuntu no
<cjwatson> if you have a specific compatibility concern rather than a vague comment, we'd be happy to try to address that
<blazemonger> how compatabile are sid packages compared to feisty packages
<pitti> blazemonger: that is an invalid question I'm afraid
<blazemonger> i dont see any kernal image's
<pitti> blazemonger: since sid changes daily and feisty is a stable release, the answer changes every day
<pitti> blazemonger: but in general you will have quite a lot of dependency problems due to different library versions
<cjwatson> that's true between Debian sid now and Debian sid one month later too, though
<blazemonger> oh okay
<blazemonger> so kernal-image-* doesn't exist anywhere in ubuntu
<blazemonger> ?
<cjwatson> linux-image-*
<blazemonger> *confused*
<cjwatson> we repackage the kernel from scratch
<blazemonger> i see a linux-image-i686
<cjwatson> and since we were doing that anyway, it made sense to apply the name change that people have been talking about in Debian for ages but not got round to
<cjwatson> 686, not i686
<cjwatson> but you probably want linux-image-generic
<Mithrandir> it's been linux-image-* in Debian too, for quite a while.
<cjwatson> of course, so it has
<blazemonger> mm
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Riddell] : Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty, #ubuntu+1 for gutsy support | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | UVF in place | Frozen for Tribe 5
<blazemonger> interesting
<cjwatson> linux-image-686 |   2.6.22+9 |      unstable | i386
<pitti> StevenK: ah, the mysterious buildd non-progress has just been resolved; slave-scanner wasn't running
<StevenK> Neat
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hi tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> first I hope you had a nice wedding, and congratulations
<pitti> tkamppeter: I had indeed, thank you!
<tkamppeter> but now eo the problem: bug 133743
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133743 in cups-pdf "package cups-pdf 2.4.6-3ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133743
<pitti> tkamppeter: http://www.piware.de/fotos/Hochzeit-Vorschau/ <- sneak preview (real photos will follow in some weeks0
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
<pitti> tkamppeter: hm; can you reproduce that?
<tkamppeter> The cups-pdf package sets up a PDF printer if none is there.
<kagou> Pici, tkamppeter, Hi :)
<kagou> tkamppeter, could you take care of Bug #132994 for your next packaing of s-c-p ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132994 in system-config-printer "S-c-p should recommend hal-cups-utils" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132994
<tkamppeter> To check, it asks CUPS via the "lpstat -v" command and greps for cups-pdf:/ URLs.
<tkamppeter> hi kagou
<keyes> hi
<keyes> hi mpt
<tkamppeter> If there is no PDF printer, it creates one with lpadmin.
<amitk_> hey pitti, I sure would like to know what the log-cutting ritual is :)
<tkamppeter> Now it seems that some users do not have CUPS running
<pitti> amitk_: the young couple has to prove that it can achieve something together
<pitti> amitk_: usually with a horribly blunt, rusty, and unset saw, for extra fun for the audience :)
<tkamppeter> So on each install or update of cups-pdf "lpstat -v" fails due to the missing CUPS.
<pitti> tkamppeter: ah, right
<tkamppeter> pitti, now what is the best to do?
<pitti> tkamppeter: replace it with a grep -v '^DeviceURI cups-pdf:/' /etc/cups/printers.conf ?
<pitti> tkamppeter: but hm, that won't help you much, since you still need lpadmin to actually set it up
<tkamppeter> Simply ignore setting the PDF queue? Starting CUPS if it is not running? Or to do everything by modifying config files (the germans say "zu Fuss")?
<pitti> tkamppeter: starting cups in cups-pdf backend, or manually modifying the configuration files -> EBW
<tkamppeter> What means "EBW"?
<pitti> tkamppeter: not configuring the PDF queue is acceptable, but usually I wouldn't worry too much
<pitti> tkamppeter: "evil, bad, and wrong"
<Mithrandir> pitti: so you should make sure to bring a leatherman or similar so you can at least set the saw somewhat?
<pitti> Mithrandir: well, after ten minutes, the father usually becomes merciful and gives you a real saw :)
<kylem> they didn't make you use a herring?
<Mithrandir> pitti: heh. :-)
<pitti> Mithrandir: carrying a leatherman in your suit spoils the look somewhat :)
<pitti> kylem: a herring for cutting a log? uh, that sounds ... ambitious
<Mithrandir> pitti: depends on the suit, I suppose.
<surak> leatherman, herring, saw.... no more coffee for me. :)
<Hobbsee> pitti: sounds perfectly sane.  monty python says so.
<pitti> tkamppeter: hm, just adding the entire <Printer> stanza to printers.conf manually would work, too, I guess
<pitti> tkamppeter: but I don't quite like it, if the format or options ever change, then this will result in a mess you cannot recover from
<tepsipakki> does anyone know why mysql uses latin1 by default, and not utf8? (see bug 34181)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 34181 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "locale and charset problem in mysql" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/34181
<tkamppeter> pitti, and adding the stuff manually to the config files will also not set the paper size. So an ugly "perl -p -i -e ..." has to be applied to the PPD.
<pitti> tkamppeter: nah, let's not get into that then; just don't do anything then if cups is not running, there's little that you can do about it at that point
<tkamppeter> pitti, perhaps I will simply silently ignore the queue setup if CUPS is not running
<pitti> tkamppeter: I agree
<tkamppeter> And users who intendedly stop CUPS probably know how to call system-config-printer later to set up the queues which they need.
<ogra> Riddell, i see linux-* was just uploaded, i have a small fix for gnome-screensaver id like to have in http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/2.19.6-0ubuntu2vs-0ubuntu3.debdiff (drops most of the patch) ok with you ?
<tkamppeter> pitti, or any other seed/release guru, is cups-pdf added to the seeds now?
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes, check the Recommends: list of ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> pitti: could you accept glib2.0 2.14.0?
<Riddell> ogra: what does it fix?
<pitti> Riddell: ^
<Riddell> seb128: what does it fix/change?
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks. Can you close the cups-pdf Blueprint as fixed then?
<seb128> Riddell: it's the new GNOME 2.20 stable version and I want it for the new tribe? ;)
<ogra> Riddell, the former fix only worked if you manually activated the screensaver ... (so it died when called from the desktop idle watcher, but remotely locking worked) this change fixes the issue completely
<seb128> Riddell: some bug fixed since 2.13.7
<kagou> tkamppeter, great news
<pitti> tkamppeter: done
<Riddell> ogra: ok, upload
<tkamppeter> kagou which great news?
<ogra> Riddell, thanks :)
<Riddell> seb128: I don't suppose that includes the initialisation broken in nspluginviewer, opera, acroread etc bug?
<kagou> tkamppeter, that this blueprint is now fixed/approved
<seb128> Riddell: no, it's not clear that's a glib bug
<tkamppeter> pitti, I see you have also closed the printer auto setup Blueprint
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes, you asked me to?
<pitti> and it seems to work, by and large
<ogra> pitti, is there anything thats holding back gobby from re-entering main ? (we had it approved and moved in already but demoted it because of the libhowl dep which is gone now)
<pitti> ogra: no, nothing; let me do some promotions, Riddell needs some, too
<ogra> yay, pkern will be happy :)
<mpt> hello keyes
<keyes> how are you ?
<mpt> I tried out your program for a couple of minutes, but haven't looked at it thoroughly
<keyes> ok
<mpt> though it's still on my to-do list for today
<keyes> thanks :)
<mpt> I was a bit confused by the "Choose Recipients" window
<mpt> What do you mean by "recipients"?
<keyes> recipients ??
<keyes> where do you see that ?
<mpt> It's the window that comes up when I choose "Encrypt..."
<Riddell> seb128: accepted.  but I think it's quite incorrect to say that a new version of a library which breaks half the world isn't the fault of the library
<keyes> I don't have the word "recipients" here in this windows :|
<seb128> Riddell: it doesn't break "half of the world", nothing in GNOME has been b0rked
<keyes> just "Folder", "Password" and "Confirmation"
<mpt> that's odd
<Riddell> seb128: I didn't say the whole world :)
<seb128> Riddell: openoffice uses gdk functions without calling gdk_init(), dunno about the others
<mpt> keyes, you've added the "Edit" > "Encrypt..." menu item, correct?
<pitti> Riddell: just the commercial half :)
<keyes> where ?
<keyes> if you run : conceal-gtk
<keyes> it's a "Gnome system tools"-like window
<keyes> without menu
<mpt> So I've been looking at completely the wrong program the whole time?
<mpt> heh
<keyes> your maybe looking at the nautilus extension ?
<mpt> keyes, I thought "nautilus-conceal" would mean it added a menu item to Nautilus
<keyes> yes it do
<mpt> So, what is the name of the menu item?
<keyes> Encrypt...
<mpt> In the Edit menu?
<keyes> but still not "recipients" word
<keyes> in the right click menu
<keyes> and maybe in the edit yes
<mpt> yep, that too
<seb128> what does this program do?
<mpt> When I choose either of them, I get "Choose Recipients"
<keyes> :|
<mpt> seb128, encrypts files/folders
<seb128> isn't seahorse doing that already?
<keyes> seb128, not the same
<seb128> why not updating seahorse to do it?
<keyes> seb128, seahorse is a GnuPD frontend
<keyes> GnuPG
<mpt> Implementation detail!
<mpt> A good reason would be "Seahorse's UI is obviously about X, not about encrypting/decrypting files" :-)
<keyes> yep
<seb128> not true
<seb128> it adds a nautilus context menu option
<keyes> still don't understand why you have a choose recipients label :/
<mpt> I'm not saying that's true, just that it would be a valid reason if you had a good value for X
<keyes> i send you a shot of the "excepted window"
<seb128> well, you can add a extra simple UI to a program
<seb128> no need to write a different one
<keyes> I think that seahorse was really not adapted to what I want to do
<mpt> Looking at Seahorse, I tend to agree
<mpt> It looks like a key/password library, not an encryption tool
<keyes> a lot of end user don't know even what is a "SSH key" or a "GNUPG key'
<mpt> I'd more expect to find an encryption UI in file-roller, actually
<mpt> than in seahorse
<surak> guys, you have no idea how nice it is to be on the sabe timezone than most of devs. Way better then entering here at 4:00 am :)
<seb128> but do you need an "encryption UI"? shouldn't that be a nautilus menu action?
<mpt> seb128, well, exactly :-)
<keyes> seb128, it's the two ;)
<mpt> That's what I thought it was
<mpt> But if conceal isn't providing this "Encrypt..." menu item in my copy of Nautilus, who is?
<seb128> seahorse ;)
<keyes> no
<keyes> conceal provide the "Encypt..." entry
<seb128> ah
<mpt> The window has an "All Keys" menu
<mpt> and a "Search for:" field
<mpt> and a huge list of people that I've never added to anything
<keyes> mpt, it's not my app whoch is loaded :d
<mpt> and "Sign message as:", which makes no sense *regardless* of which app is doing it, because I'm not sending anyone a message
<keyes>  i send you a shot :|
<keyes> it's seahorse loaded npow ???
<keyes> no ?
<mpt> Perhaps, but there's no clue to that
<mpt> oh, I could use xwininfo
<keyes> really byzarre
<elmo> is X known to be broken in the latest i386 desktop daily?
<keyes> noone has reported a bug like this :)
<mpt> Yes, it's seahorse
<seb128> it's likely to be seahorse
<seb128> see ;)
<mpt> Oh, seb128, I never doubted you
<keyes> the Nautilus entry has a "lock" icon ?
<mpt> No, it has no icon at all
<keyes> hum
<keyes> so it's not my extension I think
<mpt> So maybe your tool tried to add another "Encrypt..." icon, and Nautilus said "no, sorry, I've already got one of those"
<mpt> s/icon/item/
<seb128> I don't think so
<seb128> nautilus doesn't forbid you to have 2 identic labels
<seb128> you can uninstall seahorse to be sure
<mpt> Wouldn't that lose all my passwords? :-S
<dholbach> doko: does bug 63200 make any sense to you?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 63200 in gdb "Mistakes in gdb strings" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63200
<keyes> mpt, what happens if you just run
<keyes> conceal-gtk
<keyes> ?
<mpt> keyes, I get a tiny window
<mpt> with a table and six buttons
<surak> a question: I have a "un-bug" - that is, a hardware which works correctly, the module and the firmware are part of the main kernel, and they work perfectly. (its a prism54 wireless pci network card) - how should I report it?
<doko> dholbach, ugh, doc fix ...
<seb128> mpt: uninstalling a package doesn't change the user configuration, you can uninstall and reinstall that should work
<cjwatson> as long as you don't purge
<mpt> seb128, ok
<keyes> mpt, so it's my app
<keyes> the question no is why the nautilus extension don't load
<cjwatson> (in which case you might lose system configuration in /etc)
<surak> I mean, it's just a matter of loading the module. No idea what its not loaded by default, as this firmware is working for quite some time.
<elmo> hmm, X is choosing vesa on a laptop with i945 graphics - that's pretty special
<kylem> elmo, which pci id
<keyes> have you got nautilus-conceal, python-nautilus and python2.4-dev installed ?
<surak> elmo: better then what it loads intel-agp and panics if you happen to have a second card on the same machine :)
<keyes> ho may be simply
<keyes> have you got logged in / logged out or runned "nautilus -q && nautilus --restart" ?
<elmo> kylem: 8086:27a2
<elmo> maybe 8086:27a6
<kylem> nice.
<kylem> new.
<mjg59> elmo: Intel really do seem to hate us sometimes
<mpt> keyes, python-nautilus is not installed.
<seb128> Riddell: could you accept pango1.0 1.18.0 also (same situation as the new glib2.0, GNOME 2.20 version, bug fix update)
<elmo> mjg59/kylem: should I report this is a bug somewhere?
<mpt> keyes, is it by default in Gutsy?
<kylem> elmo, yes.
<kylem> elmo, against discover-data
<mjg59> elmo: If you set the driver by hand, does it work?
<mpt> keyes, or did you forget to mark the dependency?
<mjg59> If so, discover is just broken
<keyes> mpt, no but it's a dependency of my package :|
<elmo> which driver do I want?
<Riddell> seb128: I hope you're not uploading the whole of gnome 2.20 this morning :)
<elmo> IIRC there's two intel ones
<kylem> elmo, -intel
<tkamppeter> pitti, the fixed cups-pdf is ready for upload now:
<tkamppeter> http://www.linux-foundation.org/~till/tmp/ubuntu/gutsy/cups-pdf/
<seb128> Riddell: no, I'm done with new versions now
<kylem> elmo, wait, at what point is it failing to choose the correct card?
<keyes> mpt, ok it's my fault :s
<pitti> tkamppeter: please put a debdiff there for Riddell to review and ack
<mpt> keyes, ok, installing python-nautilus now
<keyes> i've missed the dependency in the new control file
<keyes> :S
<elmo> kylem: I just tried to boot a live CD, and it came up with 'haha X hates you' message, I looked at the log/config, and it's using vesa
<mjg59> kylem: Is the plan still to move 915+ over to intel?
<kylem> elmo, sigh, ok. yeah, it's a discover problem.
<pitti> tkamppeter: (it would be nice if you could always do that for me, too, easier to review)
<kylem> mjg59, yes, although i was hoping to discard discover entirely in the process.
<keyes> so please apt-get install python-nautilus and python2.4-dev we are missing :s
<keyes> sorry
<kylem> that seems to be too ambitious given how little time i have to even sleep these days.
<elmo> whee, /etc/init.d/gdm start exploded
<elmo> with some funky looking stacktrace thing (glibc double free?)
<kylem> elmo, is this a fresh cd install, or has it been upgraded?
<elmo> kylem: fresh cd install, I've only just taken it out of the box
<kylem> is intel_agp loaded?
<elmo> tes
<elmo> yes
<mpt> keyes, do I need to log out and log in too?
<kylem> elmo, what kind of laptop is it?
<kylem> this is special.
<keyes> mpt, yes or just run
<elmo> kylem: HP NC6320
<keyes> nautilus -q && nautilus --restart
<kylem> oh, ha ha.
<elmo> ok changing the driver to Intel has got me X
<Riddell> seb128: accepted
<seb128> Riddell: thanks
<kylem> elmo, oh. what were you doing before?
<elmo> kylem: to get the stack trace?  I was running /etc/init.d/gdm stop, /etc/init.d/gdm start
<surak> what's the correct package to submit a kernel bug?
<kylem> elmo, can you toss a bug on discover-data with a full lspci -vvnn
<kylem> elmo, yeah, but with which driver?
<elmo> kylem: intel still - but the stack trace was from gdm, it was being stupid
<elmo> and SIGABRT-ing itself when asked to run again
<kylem> ah ha.
<tkamppeter> pitti, riddell, debdiff for cups-pdf is up, same directory as the sources. So for non-UVF-exception you need it, too?
<pitti> tkamppeter: tribe5 freeze
<tkamppeter> pitti, you told that cups-pdf is in Recommends: of ubuntu-desktop. Is this enough that an automatic default installation (for example Ubiquity) installs it? Does it not have to be in Requires?
<pitti> tkamppeter: debdiff looks good, uploaded; up to Riddell to accept or defer it
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes, it is enough
<pitti> tkamppeter: it merely means that the user can manually uninstall it if he desires, without killing ubuntu-desktop
<tkamppeter> pitti, OK. Thanks.
<keyes> mpt, please try the tool only on test or backuped folder
<keyes> it's still in test !
<mpt> keyes, I installed python-nautilus and reinstalled nautilus-conceal, and the menu item didn't appear.
<mpt> Restarted Nautilus, still nothing
<mpt> Logged out and logged in again, still nothing :-/
<mpt> (I already had python2.4-dev installed)
<keyes> mpt, have you installed python2.4-dev tii ?
<keyes> ok
<elmo> you know, the whole zoom in to choose your city is looking a bit stale  in the compiz era
<keyes> what is the output of nautilus-q && nautilus --restart ? ;|
<elmo> when are we hooking up google earth so you can zoom into your HOUSE?
<mpt> keyes, still one "Encrypt..." menu item, belonging to Seahorse
<keyes> mpt, nautilus-q && nautilus --restart ?
<surak> elmo: not long - http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=37.79934,-122.39439&spn=0.034317,0.059223&z=14&om=0&layer=c&cbll=37.781873,-122.39514&cbp=1,336.44531249999994,0.4563646752870103,0
<keyes> mpt, either : ls -l /usr/lib/nautilus/extension-1.0/python
<mpt> keyes, crypt.py and crypt.pyc
<keyes> ls -l /usr/lib/nautilus/extensions-1.0/python/
<keyes> so it must be Ok :/
<keyes> and no error when starting nautilus :/
<mpt> Now nautilus seems to have hung
<mpt> ok, restarted
<mpt> and still your item's not there
<keyes> :/
<mpt> keyes, meanwhile, a few suggestions for conceal-gtk
<mpt> The list's frame is missing
<mpt> "Encrypt" should be "Encrypt"
<mpt> It's not clear what the "Open" column heading means
<keyes> what do you call "list's rfame" ?
<mpt> border
<mpt> outline
<keyes> ok
<mpt> There's just white pixels, then grey pixels
<keyes> "Is open ?" for the list ?
<mpt> It should look inset
<keyes> ok
<keyes> mpt, what is the "correct" term in Ubuntu,
<mpt> keyes, also, the first thing I tried to do was drag a folder into the list, but it didn't work
<keyes> folder or directory ?
<mpt> keyes, folder
<keyes> ok
<keyes> mpt, ok for drag'n'drop
<mpt> keyes, also, I suggest a larger default window size
<keyes> ok
<mpt> perhaps 1.5~2 times as wide as now
<mpt> The left edge of the Help button should line up with the left edge of the list
<mpt> hmm
<mpt> actually, the problem is that the gap between the left edge of the list and the left edge of the window is less than the gap on the right or the gap on the bottom.
<keyes> ok
<keyes> i've added a frame
<keyes> it seems to correct this problem too
<elmo> \o/
<elmo> now ubiquity crashed
<mpt> Drag-and-drop works onto the "Folder:" menu, neat
<surak> pitti: ping
<pitti> hey surak
<Kmos> pitti: welcome back pitti!
<pitti> hi Kmos
<mpt> keyes, the "Folder:" "Password:", and "Confirmation:" labels should not be right- or left-aligned, not centered
<Kmos> pitti: this channel isn't the same with you :))
<mpt> (I prefer left-aligned, Gnome HIG says "left unless you like right")
<pitti> Kmos: heh, thanks
<mpt> er
<keyes> ok
<pitti> Kmos: and I didn't even really leave (just for a day and a half so far)
<mpt> (I prefer *right*-aligned, not left-aligned)
* mpt washes mouth out with soap and water
<Kmos> pitti: yeah :)
<surak> hello. A question: is really necessary that network-manager-gnome asks for the keyring password to use a AP's wep one? I mean, its unpleasant to get into your computer, type your login, your password, and then a password to access your everyday network...
<giskard> surak, there is a pam module that should help you
<giskard> pam_keyring something
<giskard> if your keyring/login password are the same
<mpt> wah
<mpt> keyes, disembodied progress meter!
<surak> giskard: my question is why this is not default. I've been far from ubuntu for some time, and I like the way mac os handles this. I mean, I already typed my login password, and connecting to a wifi network is not a big deal...
<mpt> keys, is that progress bar supposed to be inside a window?
<keyes> mpt, no
<mpt> it looks very strange
<keyes> just to 'block' the app when she run
<elmo> cjwatson: I seem to have run into the 'LanguageApply failed with code 2' problem, looks like there's 6 or so bugs about it already - is there anything you want me to do, other than AOLing one of the bugs?
<giskard> surak, don't know.
<surak> (and besides, that "you are connected to wifi network xxx" is so windowish)
<Kmos> pitti: check if dupcheck for LP is running :) lol
<elmo> cjwatson: (in ubiquity, sorry - brand new laptop install, gutsy i386 daily)
<surak> giskard: that's why I'm asking pitti :)
<mpt> keyes, I suggest putting the progress bar to the left of the buttons in the "Encrypt Folder" dialog instead
<mpt> (visible only during encryption)
<pitti> surak: it shuold even be the default nowadays
<keyes> mpt, ok
<pitti> surak: if your gnome-keyring password and PAM password match, it should work (at least seb128 told me so)
<surak> pitti: I'm on feisty. you mean after it?
<pitti> surak: yep, it was fixed in gutsy, Tribe-3 I think
<surak> oh. time to download again :) thanks for your attention.
<Kmos> cjwatson: greetings for patch's for gnome 2.19.90 :)
<blazemonger> how free is ubuntu ?
<cjwatson> elmo: should be fixed shortly, according to evand it was due to busybox bug 131961 causing /rofs not to be available
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131961 in busybox "Segfaults during boot (from mount)" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131961
<mpt> keyes, how long is it supposed to take to encrypt one file?
<blazemonger> for some reason i just feel wierd using a commercialized distro
<cjwatson> Kmos: err, what have I got to do with that?
<mpt> keyes, of about 50 KB
<keyes> mpt, it encrypts folder
<cjwatson> blazemonger: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/licensing
<blazemonger> freebsd i know corporations might use it, but it sticks to being more unix like
<mpt> ok, a folder with one 50 KB file in it
<keyes> mpt, really a short time
<surak> have all a nice day. Time to go back to my thesis.
<Kmos> cjwatson: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/desktop/2.19/2.19.90/NEWS -> some Colin Watson there
<mpt> keyes, ok, it's been going for five minutes now
<keyes> bug :/
<cjwatson> Kmos: sure, I poked at deskbar-applet a bit
* mpt is starting to be glad it wasn't an important file ;-)
<keyes> someting displayed in the term ,
<keyes> ?
<Kmos> cjwatson: ah =) hehe
<blazemonger> oh so ubuntu gives you a CHOICE rioght?
<cjwatson> Kmos: hardly significant though
<cjwatson> blazemonger: yes
<Kmos> cjwatson: if it isn't not significant, why anyone catch the rat ? :) hehe
<mpt> keyes, there is, but I wasn't watching to see if it appeared at the same time
<Kmos> cjwatson: so you deserve it
<keyes> can you copy me it ?
<mpt> keyes, line 464, "'module' object has no attribute 'NotWritable'"
<elmo> cjwatson: hmm, ok.  thanks
<Kmos> another kernel ... 2.6.22.4
<doko> calc: you made ooo-l10n arch any ????? currently blocking all the buildds :-((
<blazemonger> im not on stallmans level of non-free stuff but some distros have this commercialization feel or look
<keyes> ok
<Kmos> oh god
<blazemonger> not a bad thing but ..
<cjwatson> elmo: I think some debootstrap hosage may be causing livefs build problems
<blazemonger> even wigth the distrosw saying they only use free stuff
<mpt> keyes, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34516/
<Kmos> !CVE 2007-3848
<ubotu> Linux kernel 2.4.35 and other versions allows local users to send arbitrary signals to a child process that is running at higher privileges by causing a setuid-root parent process to die, which delivers an attacker-controlled parent process death signal (PR_SET_PDEATHSIG). (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-3848)
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about cve 2007-3848 - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<cjwatson> blazemonger: I think you may be confusing "commercial" with "professional" ;-)
<keyes> mpt, ok
<keyes> so i've a bug in gtk (fixed in svn)
<keyes> and are you in the FUSE group ?
<keyes> your user
<mpt> keyes, I've never heard of "fuse" before
<keyes> System -> Administration -> users and groups
<keyes> and check you are in the fuse group
<mpt> keyes, I am
<keyes> ok
* mpt wonders why it exists
<keyes> fuse ?
<mpt> yes
<keyes> it's a system to create userland filesystems
<cjwatson> the fuse group exists because it lets you mount userspace filesystems, which could be used to elevate privileges
<mpt> ok
<keyes> http://fuse.sourceforge.net/
<cjwatson> yet it can be awfully convenient to do it as non-root for things like sshfs
<mpt> I suppose calling it "canmountdevices" would have been too obvious ;-)
<cjwatson> not to mention wrong
<mpt> or even canmountuserspacefilesystems
<cjwatson> somewhat less obvious if you don't speak English, perchance
<pitti> it'll go away eventually (in gutsy+1, I assume)
<freizo> anyone know some clearer version of Edubuntu
<freizo> it's too fat
<Mithrandir> mpt: cangobblyusermooblahsomething you mean?
<mpt> cjwatson, understandable in 0 languages is not better than understandable in 1 language
<pitti> as soon as our kernel gets ACL support for tmpfs enabled, we can activate the hal/consolekit magic to grant access to such devices (also to cameras/scanners/USB sticks) based on active consoles
<pitti> mpt: I don't expect users to understand the particular groups they are in anyway
<pitti> mpt: the users-and-groups tool neatly hides them behind the 'Desktop' profile
<mpt> I didn't notice any hiding
<cjwatson> mpt: there is no facility for the bare names of Unix groups to be localised, therefore they should not require extensive localisation.
<mpt> but if it's going away, then cool
<mjg59> mpt: I don't think any sensible proportion of our group names make any sense to an uninitiated user
<pitti> ah, it only does it for creating a new user, not for modifying existing ones; hmm
<pitti> we will get rid of 'plugdev', 'scanner', etc.; 'fuse' is a bit special, because it's also useful for remote operation
<pitti> so that might actually stay around
<mpt> I'm not saying it should be changed *now*
<cjwatson> I suspect you'll find Mac OS X has plenty of Unix-style group names under the hood too
<mpt> It's just an example
<mpt> Yes, and it's the poorer for it, IMO
<cjwatson> it is not correct to change the group name. the correct approach is to not present the group name as such in the UI.
<pitti> mpt: I think this should just be covered better in users-admin
<mjg59> pitti: Yeah, really the "User privileges" pane of user admin should also be usable for the existing users
<cjwatson> rather than typing in longer and longer group names because somebody thought it was a good idea to include a full description in the name
<mpt> An electrical device with color-coded wires is better designed than one with all-black wires, even if 999% of people never see the wires.
<cjwatson> identifiers exist for a reason damnit
<mpt> 99.9%, rather
<mjg59> mpt: When creating a user it's represented as "Allow use of fuse filesystems like LTSP Thin Client blockdevices"
<seb128> users-admin doesn't show the system group name
<cjwatson> and that's a dreadful description, but it illustrates the point
<cjwatson> mpt: my mum doesn't know what "userspace" means. Should the group be "canmountfilesystemsrunbyexternalprograms"?
<cjwatson> and for that matter my mum doesn't know what a filesystem is
<pitti> "mount"?
<cjwatson> we should not change the group name every time somebody finds something new to explain
<blazemonger> however i will say Mint seems pretty good
<cjwatson> identifiers exist so that we do not have this sort of compatibility nightmare for text exposed to users
<blazemonger> even if it does come with proprietary software
<mpt> cjwatson, just as understandable in 0 languages is not better than understandable in 1, understandable to 1% of people is not better than understandable to 3%.
<cjwatson> mpt: you appear to have entirely ignored me, so I will not discuss this further with you
<mpt> ok
* mpt gets back to work
<mjg59> mpt: The failure is having that group name be visible
<keyes> mpt, thanks for the suggest
<mpt> mjg59, agreed
<pitti> mpt: where do you see it actually?
<keyes> can I recontact you when new packages (and bugfixes..) are availables
<keyes> ?
<keyes> will be*
<mpt> pitti, Users & Groups > Manage Groups
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: your mother probably doesn't know what an external program is either. :-)
<mjg59> mpt: The group name itself is an implementation detail and should only need to make sense to people who understand what they're doing
<pitti> mpt: ah, there, I se
<pitti> e
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: quite so, which is why trying to explain it all in the group name is utterly stupid
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: indeed.
<mjg59> mpt: In much the same was as blue and brown are completely arbitrary choices of wire colours
<cjwatson> I suppose all of our internal interfaces should be written to the lowest common denominator
<mjg59> They have significance to people who know how to wire a plug.
<mpt> Perhaps "Groups settings" could have a blacklist of system-related groups, or a special token to tell which are user-created ones
<seb128> mpt: that's already the case
<cjwatson> dear me, debootstrap currently installs libdb4.[2346] 
<pitti> mpt: that's easy, groups >= 500 are user-related, 1 to 499 are system groups
<cjwatson> pitti: 1000, not 500
<mpt> So is it a bug that I'm seeing all the system-related ones?
<pitti> cjwatson: that's a Debianism
<cjwatson> the ranges are specified in the Debian policy manual
<pitti> cjwatson: LSB's treshold is 500
<elmo> err, so is there really no way to configure the compiz crack?
<elmo> (and by configure, I mean turn it off)
<cjwatson> pitti: for compatibility with RH, yes
<elmo> (and by configure, I mean graphically_)
<mjg59> elmo: Yes
<pitti> elmo: System -> Settings -> Appeareance?
<cjwatson> pitti: but system groups on Debian/Ubuntu might well show up >= 500
<seb128> elmo: system, preferences, appearance, desktop effects, none
<pitti> LAST_SYSTEM_UID=999
<cjwatson> pitti: so it should be done based on the system in use, not based on some misguided attempt to find the union
<pitti> erk, yes
<elmo> mjg59/pitti/seb128: thanks
<pitti> that should be fixed
<cjwatson> I disagree
<blazemonger> is mint linux just ubuntu with theme change?
<pitti> (for new installs, that is)
<seb128> mpt: there is some bugs open about that already
<cjwatson> we cannot assume that upgraded Debian/Ubuntu systems have no IDs in 500-999
<pitti> cjwatson: right
<cjwatson> and so no tools can assume that either
<cjwatson> I don't think there's value in changing it
<elmo> sweet, clicking 'extra effects' just kills the WM and nothing comes back to replace it
<cjwatson> blazemonger: you'd have to ask the Mint guys
<cjwatson> I doubt many people here know offhand what they changed
<seb128> mvo: ^
<mvo> elmo: what card/x driver?
<mvo> elmo: did you clicked on effects ? or extra effects?
<cjwatson> pitti: any chance we can do some libdb migrations before tribe-5?
<elmo> mvo: i945/intel
<elmo> mvo: I clicked on 'extra effects'
<pitti> cjwatson: Riddell's call, but if it only affects packages without on-disk transactions, it should be possible
<pitti> cjwatson: I doubt that anything debootstrap touches uses them
<cjwatson> Riddell: ^-- installing four libdbs seems a bit excessive
<mvo> elmo: thanks, its likely that the decorator got not started for some reason, does it help if you click on the normal (middle) effects thing?
<elmo> mvo: yes, then everything comes back
<mvo> elmo: thanks, I look into this today
<elmo> mvo: ok - no rush or anything, I can file a bug if you like
<mvo> elmo: I think I can reproduce it here (at least sometimes) so it should be fine
<A20> Hi
<A20> Does any one know when BenC will be available?
<pitti> cjwatson: for db4.5 it's more or less just curl, bogofilter, and wvstreams
<pitti> then we can demote it
<cjwatson> A20: he's on the east coast of the US, so that sort of timezone
<pitti> cjwatson: apt-utils and perl are the ones for db4.4 which affect debootstrap
<elmo> since I'm in a whiny mood - is there any chance we'll ever default to subpixel when we know we're on an LCD? (i.e. laptops)
<cjwatson> perl could be problematic
<cjwatson> I don't recall how we've handled that in the past
<pitti> right, because we don't know which apps use transactions
<Pici> kagou: pong?
<cjwatson> though the same goes for python
<doko> pitti: please accept the new openoffice.org-l10n
<A20> cjwatson: Yeah, but he was on vocation last week and I'm not sure if he is back now...
<pitti> cjwatson: 1. stick fingers in ears, 2. sing "lalala" ?
<cjwatson> I'd be happy to get it down to maybe two in debootstrap for tribe-5
<cjwatson> A20: he's back
* pitti bounces doko to Riddell
<A20> cjwatson: TX
<pitti> doko: looking
<infinity> cjwatson: Transitioning perl and friends to a new DB isn't too bad.
<infinity> cjwatson: You just have to nail all the perl rdeps that use it too (various modules, apache/mod_perl, etc)
<pitti> infinity: not for perl/python itself, but that potentially breaks perl/python programs using on-disk transactions
<infinity> cjwatson: I've done the perl/apache/etc libdb transition 2 or 3 times now.
<pitti> infinity: and all the third-party stuff that might use perl/python?
<infinity> pitti: We've done it before with no real complaints.
<infinity> pitti: Check your perl deps in, say, breezy versus dapper.
<infinity> pitti: People using transactions should be prepared to have to do painful things to compensate, unfortunately. :/
<cjwatson> infinity: yeah, I just mean tricky to do in a hurry
<infinity> pitti: We can't "fix" that.
<infinity> Anyhow, I'd rather have the ReducingDuplication discussion when we open gutsy+1, unless people really have the free time to attack it now.
<pitti> doko: accepted
<infinity> And by the time we open gutsy+1, we might be happy enough with db4.5, or even db4.6, to do a wholesale move to something shiny.
<cjwatson> I'm just concerned that it's 1.5MB of wasted CD space
<infinity> Remove OOo.
<infinity> *cough*
<doko> infinity: the idea is to have packages independent of transactions to b-d on libdb-dev, and the others should b-d on the specific libdbX.Y-ddev package
<infinity> doko: That still doesn't solve anything, as in "how do the latter group ever upgrade to a new DB?"
<doko> infinity: let seb128 fix the bloody gnome cdbs build system so that it doesn't include all doc dirs in every package. saves 10mb or so ...
<cjwatson> Riddell: I'd like to sync a new version of debootstrap to resolve problems the mobile guys are having; the patch is just this to umount_exit_function:
<cjwatson> -    umount "$TARGET/${dir#/}"
<cjwatson> Riddell: ok with you?
<cjwatson> +    umount "$TARGET/${dir#/}" || true
<Riddell> cjwatson: sure
<cjwatson> thanks. I've tested it of course and it's working better here.
<Riddell> doko: I don't see openoffice.org-l10n
<StevenK> infinity: libnss-db now that you've slept.
<StevenK> infinity: Or something. :-)
<doko> Riddell: you're slow, pitti was faster ;)
<pitti> Riddell: it's an OMGbrokenpreviousuploadneedthisASAP thing, so I accepted it
<Riddell> ok
<Riddell> calc: amd64  Failed to build
<Riddell> doko: fancy fixing openoffice or should I phone calc to wake him up?
<kagou> pitti, ping
<pitti> hi kagou
<kagou> hey Pici  :)
<kagou> hey pitti :p
<Pici> kagou: Did you mean to say hi to me early this morning? or am I just a typo?
<kagou> Pici, a typo i think
<kagou> sory :D
<Pici> kagou: No problem :)
<doko> Riddell: when needs the build to be ready?
<Riddell> doko: as soon as possible so we can get some CDs built to test
<kagou> pitti, do you need more informations for Bug #133818
<doko> Riddell: well, you can build CDs with the current package, can't you?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133818 in cupsys "[GUTSY]  Turboprint don't work due to apparmor" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133818
<doko> asac_: good morning
<asac_> doko: that is not funny ;)
<doko> =)
<Riddell> doko: I could, but there wouldn't be much point since they would have a broken open office on them
<doko> Riddell: not more broken than the previous one
<tepsipakki> I'd like to get pixman from debian experimental in ubuntu, but should I just upload that as is or report a sync-request?
<cjwatson> sync request is fine
<cjwatson> we can sync from more or less anywhere at a push; experimental is easy
<tepsipakki> cjwatson: thanks, I'll do that. It also supercedes the old libpixman (not used by anything)
<tepsipakki> cjwatson: oh, I didn't specify that it's a new package.. does that change things?
<cjwatson> tepsipakki: not especially
<tepsipakki> cjwatson: ok, it'll get in the queue anyway
<atlas95> hello, f-spot 0.4 is buggy import failed
<pitti> Riddell: is http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/apport-changes.txt good for you? it fixes my last tribe-5 bug, and otherwise just adds manpages and fixes two trivial bugs
<ogra> mvo, ping
<mvo> ogra: pong
<ogra> mvo, did you ever think about GL screensavers and compiz ...
<ogra> t just struck me that we might get bad probs her
<ogra> e
<mjg59> ogra: They're fine
<ogra> ok
<mvo> ogra: not really, no. because it runs fullscreen
<mvo> preview in window is a bit of a problem (when the window is moved)
<ogra> i thought GL doesnt work if composite is enabled
<mvo> s/a bit of/a problem/
<mvo> ogra: no, GL is fine, its "just" that for windowed 3d no damage events are generated when the window is moved and it can't be put behind another window and uglines like this
<ogra> ah, k
<mvo> ogra: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/122549 <- that one is a problem
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122549 in compiz "[gutsy]  compiz fusion breaking gnome-screensaver behaviour" [High,Incomplete] 
<ogra> yeah, i just stumbled over it
<ogra> thats why i asked :)
<mvo> its the input that goes wrong, I think its only if a certain compiz setting is enabled (that we disable by default) that it gets triggered
<mvo> but I'm not yet sure what causes it
<Riddell> pitti: ok with me
<pitti> Riddell: thanks, uploaded
<Riddell> accepting
<pitti> Riddell: thanks
<pitti> yay, all my tribe5 bugs are fixed with that
* ogra sighs
<ogra> still got the udeb ahead :/
<Hobbsee> pitti: \o/
<Riddell> ogra: udeb?
<doko> Riddell: I'm looking (until calc is awake)
<ogra> Riddell, bug 121547
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121547 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LTSP chroot building process hangs at 50% on Tribe1 CD" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121547
<ogra> Riddell, the currentl ltsp udeb needs extension for the progress reporting of mksquashfs
<ogra> thats my last tribe bug
<Riddell> ogra: any ETA for that?
<ogra> and was just moved to tribe6 ....
<Riddell> oh, ok
<ogra> Riddell, if i have more than half a day time for it to write that function
<ogra> testing udeb stuff is quite time consuming
<cjwatson> that's why you don't test that stuff in the udeb context until the very last step
<cjwatson> you write it such that you can test most of the components in the regular system
<doko> Riddell, pitti, seb128: it seems that the current OOo i386 build doesn't fail like the amd64 one. that will lead us to uninstallable packages on amd64. the upload ships some new binaries, so maybe keep the upload in NEW? Same for the -l10n upload if it succeeds
<Riddell> doko: ok
<doko> Riddell: but I don't know if -l10n has NEW packages ...
<calc> doko: huh, something went wrong with the regeneration of the control file?
<doko> calc: you didn't regenerate it
<calc> doko: look at the top of the file, it should say... "openoffice.org-l10n"
<calc> if it does it was regenerated
<doko> calc: as I did say, it was not regenerated
* calc looks in his dir
<doko> look in the diff.gz which you did upload
<calc> its regenerated in the dir, looking in the diff.gz
<calc> the diff.gz is killing firefox
<calc> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgcj <- wtf?
* calc notes that is the problem in the amd64 build
<cjwatson> don't look at .diff.gzs in firefox :-)
<cjwatson> (w3m works much better for them)
<cprov> siretart: ping
<cjwatson> calc: is libgcj<something>-dev installed in the buildd chroot? look at the head of the log
<iwj> keescook: I have reproduced your triggers bug and am testing my fix now.
<iwj> cjwatson: I think I've made it possible for a package's postinst to trigger that same package.  I'm testing that too.
<cjwatson> calc: amd64 build of which package? openoffice.org-l10n?
<doko> cjwatson, calc: no, it's not. testing a fix. looks like a merge bug
<iwj> Riddell: Are you happy with a new version of dpkg to fix bug 133172 and address Colin's requirement ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133172 in dpkg "dpkg-triggers transitional activation did not happen" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133172
<iwj> I think perhaps I should have lunch though.
<calc> cjwatson: openoffice.org (not l10n
<cjwatson> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8914285/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-amd64.openoffice.org-l10n_1%3A2.3.0%7Eoog680m1-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz lists libgcj8-dev as being installed
<cjwatson> oh
<doko> nevermind, wrong chroot
<calc> doko: it failed due to -lgcj not being found in the log...
<doko> calc: yes, my current work since 90min ...
<cjwatson> likewise http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8914284/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-amd64.openoffice.org_1%3A2.3.0%7Eoog680m1-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz lists libgcj8-dev
<calc> doko: and the original upload of openoffice.org-l10n was regenerated i looked in the diff.gz just now
<calc> doko: so what did you do to fix the issue?, just regenerated the control file... again?
<StevenK> pitti: libopenbabel1 can be NBS'd
* calc downloads the other diff.gz to get a look at what actually changed between the two
<Riddell> iwj: what's the change?
<doko> calc: no, it was not. see ronne:~doko/ooo/23/23.debdiff
<calc> ok looking now
<calc> doko: ok
<doko> I took the packages directly out of librarian
<calc> hmm definitely doesn't look like it regenerated properly on my upload, sorry about that :\
* calc looks at the oo.o failures now
<calc> i can redo the upload turning off java for sparc if needed
<calc> the failure on amd64 looks like a bug in gcj though at least from the error message
<calc> doko: note that in the previous upload of oo.o java was completely disabled since it failed even on i386
<doko> sparc is still building
<calc> ok
<StevenK> pitti: Didn't you say you promoted obexftp to fix kdebluetooth?
<pitti> StevenK: I was about to, but the MIR wasn't approved
<pitti> doko: ack
<StevenK> pitti: Does the MIR need work?
<Riddell> it needs a question answered
<Riddell> Tonio_ may have talked to upstream, I'm not sure
<StevenK> Ewww, I'm not touching that.
<Tonio_> Riddell, StevenK, pitti: there are 2 issues in fact
<Tonio_> the build-dep in universe had been removed as it is now obsolete, I have to get the change sync with debian
<Tonio_> concerning the potential security issues, it appears obexftp in only used with the user's permissions, within an ioslave
<iwj> Riddell: To fix 133172, arranging for package interest transitional processing to happen in all appropriate states of each package in question.
<iwj> Riddell: To address Colin's requirement, to defer trigger Deferred file incorporation following a postinst until after the package status is updated.
<Tonio_> no response from upstream yet on that point, but I suspect there shouldn't be any major security potentiel issue
<Riddell> iwj: I mean is it a small change?
<iwj> The former is very small.  The latter is a fairly small change semantically but involves a systematic change to about half a dozen places where the postinst is used.
<iwj> Riddell: I'm just finishing my lunch and then going to eyeball the diff again carefully to make sure each one is correct.
<Riddell> iwj: sound fine, since we have time with linux and OO still to be re-uploaded, although if you have a diff to eye over that would be good
<doko> calc: -L/usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj/lib64
<doko> this is crap. we don't have lib64
<iwj> Riddell: OK, I'll eyeball it myself first.
<calc> doko: the line where it failed also had -L/usr/lib though...
<iwj> Should be with you in the next hour or so.
<calc> doko: so it can't find it even in the normal dir
<doko> calc: doesn't matter libgcj.so isn't found in /usr/lib
<cjwatson> $ zgrep -F libgcj.so /mirror/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/Contents-i386.gz
<cjwatson> [...] 
<cjwatson> usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.2/libgcj.so                    libdevel/libgcj8-dev
<cjwatson> (though -L'ing that directory is probably a bad plan!)
<pitti> hi gouki
<doko> yes, and g++ (4.1) is used for linking
<calc> the libgcj.so.* is in /usr/lib for the .so is in another dir?
<calc> s/for/but/ ?
<doko> calc: to be able to install compilers in parallel. so apparently our dear debian maintainer did upload a package which ftbfs ...
<calc> fun :\
<Tonio_> iwj, pitti: should I update the mir wiki page on that point or are those infos enough ?
<pitti> Tonio_: I don't see how "obexftp only used with user's permissions" makes it any less of a security issue
<calc> doko: so it needs to say /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.2/ ?
<Hobbsee> pitti: just means it can trash ~ instead of / :P
<pitti> Tonio_: remotely stealing or corrupting your files is no small risk :)
<Hobbsee> minor data loss, really
<Tonio_> pitti: that a repsonse for iwj in fact
<doko> calc: no, -L/usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj/lib
<calc> doko: oh ok
<pitti> Hobbsee: I don't know about you, by my ~ is more precious than my /usr ;)
<Hobbsee> pitti: indeed :0
<Hobbsee> pitti: see the :P
<pitti> heh, yeah
<pitti> Tonio_: yes, please mention any answers on the wiki page, so that we have a record
<calc> doko: i probably should wait to see if there is anything else needed for sparc before i upload this fix, right? :)
* calc doesn't want to have to make a third upload to hammer the buildds with
<Tonio_> pitti: absolutly agree on that point, but going further concerning the security means looking carefully at the code, which I can't do myself
<Hobbsee> calc: at least, not without a large sheild.
<pitti> calc: depends; amd64 and i386 block CD builds, sparc doesn't
<pitti> Tonio_: right
<pygi> mr_pouit, ping
<calc> pitti: true, /me looks to see if he can determine how long sparc still has to build
<calc> looks like maybe 3-4 hr left, i'll get the next version ready to upload and just upload once i look at the sparc output in case its an easy fix
<Tonio_> pitti, iwj: updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportObexftp
<doko> calc: I have a fix for the build failure on amd64
<calc> doko: ok, can you send it to me?
<calc> doko: unless you really want to do the upload, heh, i was going to disable java on powerpc for now unless you think its an easy fix
<calc> doko: looks like registration fails which causes the build to fail for powerpc
<calc> doko: if i am reading the log correctly
<Treenaks> crimsun: Do you have an update about bug 119266? I just rebooted for the first time in ages, and the sound still didn't get detected.. :(
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119266 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Intel HDA Sound device doesn't work in gutsy" [Low,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119266
<geser> calc: wouldn't using g++-4.2 fix it also as it should look for libgcj.so in the right directory then?
<calc> pitti: can you promote stlport4.6 back into main for now?
<doko> calc: no, please do. ronne:~doko/xxx.diff it's not the correct one (that would be to use $JAVA_HOME/lib instead of $JAVA_HOME/lib64, but I didn't find that one)
<pitti> calc: what about 5.1?
<doko> calc: please could you build completely without stlport?
<doko> pitti: doesn't work
<calc> doko: thats what i am doing currently
<calc> doko: well building with internal copy i think is what it ends up doing anyway
<doko> calc: no, I mean building *without* stlport
<calc> doko: oh, hmm i'll take a look and see if i can disable it entirely
<calc> doko: yea i can disable it
<ogra> pitti, did you promote gobby but missed its deps ? looks like on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
<pitti> ogra: ah, apparently; demoted again, the report doesn't mention libxml2.6++ and it's in universe
<ogra> ouch
<ogra> new dep i guess
<pitti> MIR queue updated
<bigon> hi, could someone have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devscripts/+bug/132928
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132928 in devscripts "debcommit: add options to specify changelog path" [Unknown,Fix committed] 
<dholbach> Riddell: I assigned bug 121872 to you - hope that's ok
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121872 in qt4-x11 "*-qt4 tools should be present in $QTDIR/bin" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121872
<ogra> Keybuk, if i want to replace the shutdown command in /etc/event.d/control-alt-delete with "reboot -fp" (for thin clients) should i just divert the file or would you recommend any better way ?
<eliast> Anybody has a good pointer for learning how to build my own deb from sources in new releases? like http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/devel/mercurial
<ogra> sudo apt-get install packaging-guide ?
<pitti> eliast: man dpkg-buildpackage; quite technical and mostly not relevant, but it boils down to installing the build dependencies and 'debuild -us -uc -b'
* infinity notes that he's never actually used "debuild"....
<eliast> thanks ogra, pitty
<eliast> so in that url I pasted, there's the original source of the package and the diff.
<eliast> I can patch the original, but then what.. debuild ... is the right direction then?
<pitti> eliast: ah, dpkg-source -x foo.dsc to unpack it
<pitti> eliast: yes, debuild will build the source package and create .debs for installation
<infinity> calc: So, do we know anything about the OOo failures on amd64/powerpc?
<calc> doko: it looks like $JAVA_HOME needs to be $(JAVA_HOME)
<calc> infinity: we have a fix for both, amd64 had bad path for libgcj.so and powerpc fails for java in a different way so I am disabling java on it
<doko> calc: ??? it's a configure script, not a Makefile
<calc> infinity: waiting to see what sparc does
<calc> doko: well it failed without the ()
<calc> doko: actually nm
<calc> doko: it still fails anyway, it hadn't gotten to that point in the configure when i thought that fixed it
<doko> calc: do what you want, my build is running, 6000 files built
<eliast> pitty, thanks! it all worked. dpkg-source -x foo.dsc and debuild did it all. awesome I love this stuff.
<calc> doko: is xxx.diff the full patch you applied?
<doko> calc: yes
<iwj> Riddell: YHM - that triggers diff.  I did -U10 since it seemd to make it clearer to read.
<iwj> I've done some basic tests and I'm going to rebuild for upload now.
<Riddell> iwj: go for it
<iwj> Thanks.
<keescook> iwj: fix> cool.  :)
<cjwatson> pitti: have you looked at promoting apturl yet? it makes livefs builds fail
<pitti> cjwatson: no, I haven't
<pitti> oh, new dependency of ubufox
<cjwatson> yeah
<cjwatson> would you, if you have a moment?
<seb128> Riddell: could you accept the totem upload? That's a one line patch that makes the multimedia keys work again out of the box
<Riddell> seb128: accepted
<Riddell> seb128: but one day, you need to accept all the kde stuff in New in return!
<seb128> Riddell: tomorrow is my archive day, I'll do some NEW ;)
<Riddell> ooh, please
<alex-weej> any idea when LP is back?
<infinity> It went somewhere?
<infinity> (Works for me)
<cjwatson> alex-weej: it works for me
<alex-weej> Sorry, you can't do this right now
<alex-weej> Launchpad is offline at the moment for maintenance. It should be back, better than ever, soon. Thanks for your patience.
<alex-weej> The Launchpad team
<infinity> Reload that page.
<alex-weej> third time lucky, whaddayaknow
<infinity> You sometimes get it when the load-balancing messes up.
<cjwatson> there is the cunningly named #launchpad channel for this sort of question, anyway
<alex-weej> :o
<infinity> cjwatson: Filthy lies and subterfuge.
<Riddell> infinity: do you know if it's possible to build-dep on sun java?  it seems to fail at the debconf licence checkin my ppa
<calc> i have 1ubuntu2 ready for OOo, I will upload it once I see what sparc does, its at 6hr now and failed before at 6:30 so shouldn't be too long if it is going to fail again
<Riddell> calc: ok
<calc> Riddell: any idea why kdelibs-dev would not be installable on lpia?
<calc> Riddell: it shows as built on lpia
<infinity> Riddell: Currently no, I've had requests form people to preseed the debconf question, but the Right Answer is to take it out completely, since it's not required by the license anymore.
<calc> Riddell: hmm actually it looks like the packages that kdelibs4-dev depends on aren't installable
<Riddell> calc: seems to install for me in my chroot
<Riddell> doko: any chance of the debconf question being removed from sun java then?
<calc> Riddell: hmm ok
<alex-weej> asac: any chance you can help me out with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/131349 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131349 in network-manager "NetworkManager crashed with signal 5 when attempting to connect to VPN" [Medium,New] 
* alex-weej would really like his VPN to work again...
* calc sees if he can build a lpia chroot
<asac> alex-weej: does it always happen?
<infinity> calc: You can.
<alex-weej> asac: yes.
<asac> alex-weej: maybe you need just to restart?
<asac> restart network-manager
<alex-weej> asac: i have done so about 100 times since i started using gutsy :P
<infinity> calc: Where are you seeing kdelibs-dev being uninstallable?
<asac> how do you restart?
<alex-weej> asac: my whole computer
<asac> no try to restart network manager
<alex-weej> asac: i do, every time it crashes
<asac> so it doesn't happen always
<alex-weej> does PPTP work for you? do you think this might be an upgrade path problem?
<calc> infinity: it says not installed, not actually uninstallable
<calc> infinity: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8919258/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-lpia.openoffice.org_1%3A2.3.0%7Eoog680m1-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<alex-weej> asac: no it definitely ALWAYS happens every time i attempt to log on to VPN
<calc> it appears debootstrap can't create a lpia chroot on my box at least
<alex-weej> NM crashes, so i restart it
<alex-weej> asac: then i try it again, same thing
<alex-weej> restart NM
<calc> infinity: i was going to try installing it locally but it seems debootstrap doesn't know how to handle lpia yet
<infinity> calc: It does so.
<infinity> calc: debootstrap --variant=buildd --arch lpia gutsy gutsy
<asac> alex-weej: please attach your daemon.log as well to the bug?
<calc> infinity: oh so its still at buildd level?
<alex-weej> asac: sure, if you can tell me where it is
<infinity> calc: Should work without variant=buildd too, but you're debugging a buildd install failure, right? :P
<calc> infinity: yea true :)
<alex-weej> asac: also are we interested in NetworkManagerDispatcher as well?
<asac> alex-weej: /var/log/daemon.log
<alex-weej> asac: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8919655/daemon.log
<asac> alex-weej: i guess the dispatcher doesn't crash, right?
<alex-weej> asac: i don't really know how to tell as i don't know what it does
<asac> alex-weej: which vpn packages are installed?
<alex-weej> dbus says: '(null)'  'Failed to run vpnc binary.'. -- pptp != vpnc, no?
<calc> infinity: heh, buildd variant doesn't even include apt-get
<asac> alex-weej: you need vpnc ?
<asac> hmm
<alex-weej> asac: the daemon.log says so
<alex-weej> asac: but i'm not using cisco
<infinity> calc: Err, bloody well should.
<calc> infinity: yea it should, very annoying without it
<infinity> calc: If it doesn't it's failing earlier.
<ScottK> Riddell: Would you please push clamav 0.91.2-0ubuntu1 out the door.  It's universe (i.e. not frozen).
<alex-weej> asac: network-manager-openvpn and openvpn are installed, but i'm not using OpenVPN
<calc> infinity: ah it did say something about failure retrying 5 times
<asac> alex-weej: try to install it and see if it helps (yes I know you should not need it)
<infinity> calc: No, I mean it "should" as in "it does, unless something's broken".
<infinity> calc: Yeah, that would be the failure.
<alex-weej> asac: ok 1 minute
<asac> alex-weej: do you have network-manager-vpnc installed?
<alex-weej> asac: no
<asac> alex-weej: if so .. maybe remove it
<asac> hmm
<keescook> how did vnc4 enter main?
<asac> alex-weej: well then insatll vpnc
<calc> infinity: ah ok :)
<Riddell> ScottK: accepted
<alex-weej> asac: OpenVPN and PPTP are the only VPN types NM lists
<ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
<calc> infinity: well then yea lpia is broken at buildd level, can't even generate a chroot right now
<infinity> calc: Anyhow, since that's not happy with you right now, give me 30 seconds and I'll tell you what the kdelibs problem is.
<asac> alex-weej: yes ... try please
<calc> infinity: ok thanks :)
<alex-weej> asac: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8919728/daemon.log.2
<doko> Riddell: I don't understand
<cjwatson> Package: apt
<keescook> Riddell: with your archive powers, do you know how to figure out how vnc4 ended up in main?
<cjwatson> Build-Essential: yes
<cjwatson> calc: ^-- ergo in buildd variant
<elmo> I noticed the same thing last time I debootstraped lpia
<calc> cjwatson: yea currently its failing to install via debootstrap :\
<calc> cjwatson: debootstrap gives error message that it is retrying five times, then looked like it completed but actually failed
<cjwatson> calc: either /debootstrap/debootstrap.log or /var/log/bootstrap.log in the chroot, depending on how far it got
<cjwatson> the useful log should be in there
<cjwatson> calc: openoffice.org on lpia is hardly urgent, though
<cjwatson> calc: I wouldn't put effort into it
<Riddell> keescook: can't see anything in the history, others (infinity?) may know how to search better, I presume someone promoted it
<calc> cjwatson: ok
<infinity> cjwatson: has that log EVER proven useful at that failure stage? :P
<cjwatson> oh, although I suppose it is needed to get live filesystems working
<calc> cjwatson: just wondering why it couldn't even install the depends
<cjwatson> calc: ignore what I said, I guess we should care at least to some level
<cjwatson> damn those language packs
<keescook> cjwatson, infinity: we really do not want vnc4 in main -- it is totally unmaintained.
<Riddell> doko: infinity says sun java doesn't need the manual licence approval, does that mean we can remove the debconf question?
<infinity> cjwatson: I'm happy with it not being in main, no idea why it was in the first place.
<keescook> it wasn't prior to gutsy; I don't see an MIR for it either
<cjwatson> may predate MIRs
<doko> Riddell, infinity: I'm not aware that anything did change. could you point me to the license change?
<cjwatson> xvnc4viewer is in the desktop seed
<calc> doko: are you going to commit the gcj fix to ooo-build?
<cjwatson> revision 972, added by pitti to replace xvncviewer in response to bug 85403
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 85403 in vnc4 "ship xvnc4viewer by default (in main)" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85403
<infinity> doko: Err.  Sun relicensed hava ages ago...
<infinity> doko: The new license can't possibly include an EULA.
<infinity> s/hava/java/
<doko> infinity: what do you mean by "ages ago"? between java5 and java6?
<alex-weej> asac: any ideas or do you want to phone a friend?
<calc> cjwatson: it fails at "I: Unpacking the base system..."
<doko> calc: well, that's temporary,
<cjwatson> calc: that's not useful ...
<calc> Setting up startup-tasks (0.3.8-1) ...
<calc> dpkg: --unpack needs at least one package archive file argument
<asac> mvo: is apturl already in main?
<cjwatson> calc: ah, that sounds like it failed to find anything in build-essential
<calc> says the --unpack line several times
<cjwatson> yeah, it repeats just in case it helps, ignore that
<calc> i can send that log file somewhere if it is useful to anyone
<keescook> cjwatson: thanks for the link, I'll talk to pitti
<cjwatson> calc: no need
<calc> cjwatson: ok
<cjwatson> it's correct, binary-lpia/Packages.gz has nothing Build-Essential: yes
<calc> cjwatson: should it have installed apt-get?
<cjwatson> oh, ARGH
<cjwatson> this needs a launchpad patch
<cjwatson> calc: yes, it should
<asac> alex-weej: ... i'll try to look into the code tonight (when i get back from sport) ... otherwise i will take a quick look tomorrow ... at best ping me again.
<cjwatson>   for arch in i386 amd64 powerpc sparc ia64; do
<calc> cjwatson: heh
<ivoks> cjwatson: i might be PITA, but please, don't let another ubuntu release with broken symbols (bug 93077) in couple of keymaps :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 93077 in console-setup "Non-exsisting layouts" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93077
<alex-weej> asac: ok, cheers
<cjwatson> ivoks: I'll look at it when I have time
<cjwatson> which is not today
<mr_pouit> pygi: pong
<pygi> mr_pouit, you've got bug report on forums about new package
<alex-weej> can someone triage this please and set a reasonable importance? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libbonobo/+bug/90923
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 90923 in libbonobo "bonobo-activation-server doesn't exit after logout, prevents Bonobo-activated D-Bus applications from working on new login" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<cjwatson> doko: why did you ask the kernel guys for lpia udebs?
<calc> going for 7 hours on sparc, thats a good sign (i think)
<calc> or at least its a sign of tying up buildd resources ;\
<cjwatson> doko: we're not doing d-i on lpia yet, so udebs are unnecessary
<doko> cjwatson: hmm, maybe before you said we're not having the alternate disk?
<cjwatson> I don't know when it happened, just now from kyle is the first I heard of it
<mr_pouit> pygi: I don't have enough time to check the forums :/ (I am already a moderator of the french one)
<pygi> mr_pouit, as you wish
<ivoks> cjwatson: ok
<infinity> calc: The kdelibs thing was transient, now libcompress-zlib-perl is the only uninstallable in your build-dep list.  *shrug*
* infinity hunts that down.
<infinity> Oh, libcompress-zlib-perl doesn't exist.  That would do it.
* infinity fixes.
<infinity> ... because it's dep-wait on something else... On all arches.
* infinity sighs.
<infinity> dep-wait on a package we don't have, even.  Awesome stuff.
<calc> leet
<cjwatson> I think that only disappeared recently?
<cjwatson> it certainly used to exist
<calc> infinity: but why did it mention kdelibs as well, or was that spurious?
<calc> infinity: oh ok, i see you mentioned that already, nm
<infinity> cjwatson: Doesn't exist in any dist, according to madison.
<cjwatson> oh, you mean a dep-wait from libcompress-zlib-perl?
<infinity> libio-compress-zlib-perl, that is.
<infinity> Yeah, it's brand new in Debian, needs a sync.
<infinity> And then an MIR and promotion.
<infinity> \o/
<cjwatson> libio-compress-base-perl too
<kylem> winning
<cjwatson> that shouldn't have been synced
<cjwatson> doko: did something else need the newer libcompress-zlib-perl
<cjwatson> ?
<calc> hmm ooo doesn't use it, what was pulling that package in
<cjwatson> there's no rationale in bug 129651, though it was pre-UVF
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129651 in libcompress-zlib-perl "sync request" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129651
<infinity> calc: "apt-cache rdepends libcompress-zlib-perl", and marvel at the list.
<calc> infinity: haha
<infinity> (po-debconf would be your answer)
<calc> infinity: i see :)
<doko> cjwatson: well, I didn't check, it was pre-UVF
<cjwatson> po-debconf is needed by practically everything
<cjwatson> doko: there is a reason we stop syncing automatically, you know ... ;-)
<doko> cjwatson: I didn't touch libio-*
<cjwatson> doko: they weren't needed before the version of libcompress-zlib-perl you requested be synced
<cjwatson> so that introduced a bug
<doko> ouch
<iwj> cjwatson: I'll ask you since Scott isn't around: would you be able to arrange for bug 54389 to be prioritised ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 54389 in malone "Implement a milestone command in the email interface" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/54389
<iwj> doko asked me to file autopkgtest bugs with a milestone set and I can't do that atm.  I'm about to reset the autopkgtest system and expect to have a huge pile of bugs to report by the end of the week.
<iwj> It looks to me like it ought to be reasonably straightforward.
<cjwatson> iwj: OK, I'll see what I can do. Not sure the rollout schedule will allow for it by end of week though (not my fault etc.)
<iwj> Yes.
<iwj> This has just got to the top of my stack.
<cjwatson> iwj: in the meantime, is filing with a tag possible?
<cjwatson> that would at least be conveniently searchable
<iwj> If you discover when the feature is likely to arrive please let me know.
<iwj> No.
<iwj> But the subject lines are very formulaic.
<tkamppeter> Riddell, I have fixed some bugs in system-config-printer, bug 102389 (HIGH), bug 127152 (MEDIUM), bug 128261 (MEDIUM), and bug 132994 (LOW)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102389 in gnome-cups-manager "printer auto-detection does the wrong thing for Xerox 7228" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102389
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127152 in system-config-printer "Samba printers are not displayed" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127152
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128261 in system-config-printer "Wrong name displayed for smb printer" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128261
<mvo> asac: not yet in main AFAIK
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132994 in system-config-printer "S-c-p should recommend hal-cups-utils" [Low,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132994
<tkamppeter> see bug 133891 for the upload.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133891 in system-config-printer "UVF ER: system-config-printer SVN rev 1415" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133891
<cjwatson> iwj: I've asked; I'll let you know what I get back
<iwj> Ta.
<infinity> cjwatson: So, what do we do about the installability of po-debconf?  Sync, sync, promote, promote, all with our eyes firmly shut?
<cjwatson> that's my vote
<cjwatson> I seriously can't see perl modules being a problem
<infinity> No, neither can I.
<cjwatson> I thought they were basically just split out of libcompress-zlib-perl, at least in spirit
<infinity> Generally.
<infinity> Alright, I'm gonna go sync away.
<calc> infinity: can you sync libwpg to universe while you're at it?
<calc> infinity: its not in ubuntu yet
<calc> infinity: its needed for OOo so i will be writing a MIR shortly
<infinity> calc: Sure.
<infinity> calc: What's your LP ID?
<calc> infinity: ccheney
<infinity> E: libwpg: not found
<infinity> Try harder.
<infinity> Oh, it's THAT new.
* infinity refreshes the source list.
<cjwatson> infinity: (update-sources)
<cjwatson> might as well update the lot rather than just one
<infinity> cjwatson: Ahh, didn't realise anyone had scripted it, was going to mention that we should. :P
<infinity> cjwatson: Why not just cron that or something, so it's always ready?
<cjwatson> infinity: I think it's in case it collides with a sync
<cjwatson> s/$/ run/
<cjwatson> it doesn't update the files atomically, which is a bug
<infinity> cjwatson: That would take about 10 seconds to fix...
<cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/grub-installer.14244.diff
<cjwatson> how much does that make people scream in terror?
<cjwatson> (the answer will not necessarily stop me uploading it, if it works)
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: the changelog or the code?
<cjwatson> the code
<infinity> cjwatson: What does this fix, exactly?
<Mithrandir> the code is.. scary.
<Mithrandir> the changelog looks fine though
<doko> Riddell: so unless infinity gives me a hint *why* the question can be removed, we will keep it
<cjwatson> infinity: the bug noted in the changelog ...
<cjwatson> infinity: some loony BIOSes refuse to boot if there's no active partition on the disk
<infinity> cjwatson: Meh.  Fair enough.
<infinity> cjwatson: Should this be in grub-installer at all?
<infinity> cjwatson: lilo-installer would surely need the code duplicated.
<infinity> cjwatson: (So, partman or something?)
<Riddell> doko: I'm guessing he's thinking of the GPL version
<infinity> If there's no active partition, mark boot, or root, or first primary, in that preference order.
<mvo> elmo: the compiz bug you mentioned this morning (no decoration) is now fixed in my local repo, thanks for raising the issue
<cjwatson> infinity: lilo-installer already has it ...
<cjwatson> infinity: needs to go in the bootloader installer 'cos you need to munge the disk you're putting the bootloader on
<cjwatson> and you don't know that in partman
<infinity> cjwatson: Ahh.  Is this a cargo-cult of lilo's code? That would make me feel better about knowing it works. :)
<ion_> The one thing that annoys me the most about compiz is that window decorations change to show the new focused window after a delay.
<cjwatson> infinity: ish. it's different because it has to convert BACK from grub device names to OS device names, and I also decided I didn't care about marking /boot as active if GRUB was going in the MBR; first primary would do fine
<cjwatson> though if you know of a reason it's important to try /boot then / then first primary, I'm willing to listen
<infinity> cjwatson: I imagine marking /boot just looks prettier in an fdisk list.  (or, at least, looks less confusing)
<cjwatson> I suspect there are BIOSes that insist on a primary being active though
<infinity> cjwatson: It has to be a primary, yes.
<infinity> cjwatson: An active logical is plain wrong.
<cjwatson> maybe I should go for /boot-if-primary (!) then first primary
<cjwatson> works on some BIOSes that suffer from this bug, but I agree with you
<mvo> ion_: what do you mean exactly?
<infinity> cjwatson: Most modern BIOSes are completely forgiving about the whole thing, but the old skool DOS world, it had to be a primary.
<infinity> cjwatson: So, being anal pays here, I guess.
<infinity> cjwatson: Even though it's an utter lie anyway, cause we're chaining from the MBR.
<cjwatson> personally I was surprised this bug appeared at all on a modern BIOS
<infinity> Some OEMs manage to spectacularly fuck up their BIOSes.
<cjwatson> oh, I tell a lie, the reporter said it worked if they marked the extended partition containing the logical containing Ubuntu active
<lamont> seb128: got time for yelp complaints?
<infinity> Despite Pheonix/AMI/Award/whoever providing them with perfectly useful stuff out of the box.
<cjwatson> so probably just "anything in the main MBR partition table" was good enough there
<ion_> mvo: For instance, my active windows have a brown decoration and inactive windows have a grey decoration. When i alt-tab to another window or switch a workspace, the resulting newly active windows decoration only changes to brown after all the transition effects have finished. When alt-tabbing, i can already write a short piece of text to the new window before its decoration changes to brown.
<tkamppeter_> Riddell, ping
<ion_> mvo: When i switch to a new window, i think its decoration should show that immediately while a transition effect is running, not after it.
* lamont finds himself reminded of how much cdbs makes  him vomit
<Riddell> tkamppeter_: hi
<tkamppeter> Riddell, I have fixed some bugs in system-config-printer, bug 102389 (HIGH), bug 127152 (MEDIUM), bug 128261 (MEDIUM), and bug 132994 (LOW)
<tkamppeter> <ubotu> Launchpad bug 102389 in gnome-cups-manager "printer auto-detect
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102389 in gnome-cups-manager "printer auto-detection does the wrong thing for Xerox 7228" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102389
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127152 in system-config-printer "Samba printers are not displayed" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127152
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128261 in system-config-printer "Wrong name displayed for smb printer" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128261
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132994 in system-config-printer "S-c-p should recommend hal-cups-utils" [Low,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132994
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102389 in gnome-cups-manager "printer auto-detection does the wrong thing for Xerox 7228" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102389
<tkamppeter> see bug 133891 for the upload.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133891 in system-config-printer "UVF ER: system-config-printer SVN rev 1415" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133891
<doko> cjwatson, infinity: one of you doing the libio-compress-* packages? if not I would do it now
<Riddell> tkamppeter: I've uploaded it
<doko> calc: my amd64 build did fail in the install step
<tkamppeter> Riddell, this was quick. Thanks.
<calc> doko: odd
<cjwatson> doko: I think infinity is on it
<calc> doko: do you have a log?
<doko> ERROR:  /scratch/packages/ooo/23/openoffice.org-2.3.0~oog680m1/ooo-build/build/current/solver/680/unxlngx6.pro/bin/regcomp -register -br  ...
<doko> it's within the java components
<calc> doko: oh it fails more or less the same on powerpc i think also
<mvo> ion_: heh :) I never notice, but you are right
<ion_> mvo: That has been bugging me for a long time. Ive just never got around to posting a bug report or even trying to fix it.
<infinity> doko: Already done.
<calc> doko: it failed here on powerpc "regcomp -register  -br ../../unxlngppc.pro/misc/bridgetest/bootstrap.rdb -r ../../unxlngppc.pro/lib/uno_services.rdb..."
<calc> doko: i'll disable java on amd64 as well for the next upload, that should keep that from failing
<doko> no, the bridgetest failure seems to be another one
<calc> doko: oh so its two separate issues not just that regcomp is broken?
<jdstrand> cjwatson: I was trying to add a new task to tasksel, but get 'tasksel: aptitude failed (100)'.  I don't know if it is related to bug #131134 or if I have just done something stupid.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131134 in tasksel "When attempting to install lamp-server, returns "aptitude failed (100)"" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131134
<jdstrand> cjwatson: see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34546/ for the file I used
<jdstrand> cjwatson: is there something I need to do beyond adding that file to ubuntu-tasks?
<doko> calc: no, regcomp is not broken, but fails to install something for some reason. yes, the tool has very poor diagnostics
<cjwatson> jdstrand: that'll only work if Task: ossh-server is in your Packages file ...
<calc> doko: oh ok
<cjwatson> jdstrand: is this for automatic installation?
<jdstrand> cjwatson: well, the #ubuntu-server team wanted to add openssh as a taskel option, so I said I'd look into it, and wanted to provide you with everything so you didn't have to do extra work.
<jdstrand> cjwatson: but here I am asking you for help.  :)
<cjwatson> jdstrand: blink, it seems far too small for a task
<doko> calc: maybe you could look for the place where $JAVA_HOME/lib64 is defined and used, and replace that one with $JAVA_HOME/lib
<kylem> elmo, did you file a bug for that i945 stuff?
<lamont> Riddell: yelp_2.19.90-0ubuntu2 uploaded to fix ftbfs on lpia (and hppa).  whether you accept it or not before tribe 5 is left as an exercise for you
<cjwatson> jdstrand: if one were to do it, the correct answer is to add a seed for it to bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.gutsy/ with the right Task-* headers, and after that just run the thing in tasksel which automatically regenerates ubuntu-tasks/
<jdstrand> jdstrand: yeah-- it is, but they wanted something obvious on install for installing openssh, for those LAMP installations that want it
<calc> doko: ok will look around and see where that is defined
<cjwatson> jdstrand: (files dropped into ubuntu-tasks/ manually will be erased)
<lamont> hrm... I suppose I should file a bug for that.
<cjwatson> jdstrand: they should just get a core-dev to create an openssh-server seed, anyway. (not ossh-server, please)
<infinity> lamont: File a bug for the one you just fixed?
<infinity> lamont: That's a spectacular waste of time.
<cjwatson> it's a simple text file
<lamont> with the patch, dude
* lamont skips that part
<lamont> seb128: new yelp that builds on lpia (and hppa) uploaded, just fyi
<Riddell> lamont: a debdiff would be better than a bug
<jdstrand> cjwatson: I just did 'ossh-server' in my debugging since 'ssh-server' can be either openssh or lsh-server.  I didn't know if that error was a namespace thing or not (I am new to tasksel)
<lamont> Riddell: to where?
<cjwatson> right, openssh-server is a less confusing name though. :)
<cjwatson> you definitely want to list real packages not virtual packages
<Riddell> lamont: to me :)
<cjwatson> and if it's a one-package task ...
<jdstrand> cjwatson: yes.  ;)
* lamont scratches his head at debian/control, screams
<cjwatson> jdstrand: tasks and package names are in different namespaces
<lamont> Riddell: if you reject -0ubuntu2 can I re-upload?
<cjwatson> tasks are magic though, you need launchpad integration to create them, and that's achieved through the seeds
<Riddell> lamont: sure, something wrong with it?
<lamont> yeah.  debian/control.in is used.
<Riddell> ooh, evil
<jdstrand> cjwatson: ok cool.  I'll take you comments on over to #ubuntu-server and go from there.  thanks!
<cjwatson> if it's listed as inherited by server-ship (or ship or ship-live) in the STRUCTURE file, you'll get tasks for it)
<cjwatson> s/)$//
<dobey> hmm.
<cjwatson> actually nowadays you get tasks for anything with Task-* headers, but in this case it should be inside server-ship anyway
<cjwatson> jdstrand: cool
<calc> cool sparc failed due to ICE :(
<Riddell> lamont: rejected
<calc> at least it wasn't OOo's fault
<lamont> Riddell: and diff sent
<lamont> and correct version uploaded
<lamont> Riddell: and note that it is in no way critical for tribe 54
<lamont> s/4//
<lamont> unless infinity is planning on tribe5 media
<lamont> unless infinity is planning on tribe5 media for lpia
<lamont> (that came out wrong there for a moment)
<ion_> Could cups-pdf be added to xubuntu-desktop as well, btw?
<mathiaz> keescook: what was the reason to add a .dfsg to the apparmor package ?
<kylem> gfdl docs?
<keescook> mathiaz: yawp, kylem is right; I dropped the PDFs
<mathiaz> keescook: the pdfs are no longer in the repository.
<mathiaz> keescook: they'Re generated during the package building
<Riddell> ion_: it has been
<mathiaz> keescook: with pdflatex
<keescook> mathiaz: ah-ha!  great; they found the original sources then.  :)
<mathiaz> keescook: and I've actually disabled the doc build for now.
<mathiaz> keescook: so should we remove the dfsg part of the package name ?
<keescook> yeah, if the new upstream doesn't have anything to drop, sure.
<lamont> mathiaz: if the docs are gfdl, then they still have to get dropped, don't they?
<keescook> sorry, I wasn't clear.  they're not gfdl, they're gpl, but the old versions didn't have source
<mathiaz> lamont: I think the original problem was that the upstream repository had pdf files in it.
<ion_> riddell: Ah, thanks. The change hadnt bubbled up to my system yet.
<mathiaz> keescook: I guess I'll have to add an Obsolete or Conflict tag to the control file.
<keescook> mathiaz: ?  we should still build the docs
<Riddell> ion_: no, we're frozen
<mathiaz> keescook: yes. I'll add that too... It just that it pull 500 Mb of dependencies
<mathiaz> keescook: just to build the doc.
<seb128> lamont: thanks
<mathiaz> keescook: I'll put these in the apparmor-doc package.
<keescook> mathiaz: what did you mean about the Conflict/Obsolete issue?
<lamont> seb128: that was the first one that I ran into, fwiw
<mathiaz> keescook: well. hum... dfsg is part of the version ?
<mathiaz> keescook: or not part of anything...
<keescook> mathiaz: it's just part of the version, no problems.
<mathiaz> keescook: ah ok. So I just to drop it, and it won't be a problem during the upgrade.
<mathiaz> keescook: ?
<keescook> mathiaz: right, as long as other parts of the version are higher than the prior one.  :)
<mathiaz> keescook: I think so. I'm now at apparmor_2.1+939.dfsg-0ubuntu1
<infinity> calc: I can kill the i386 OOo build, right, since there's another planned?
<calc> infinity: yea
<mvo> it looks like python dbm files created with older python versions can not be read with latest python with db4.6.? (bug #133691 looks like it)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133691 in command-not-found "doesn't cope with db format transition" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133691
<cjwatson> mathiaz: forget about Obsolete, it's ... er ... obsolete
<cjwatson> actually I think that was Obsoletes
<seb128> lamont: first one of what? packages not building on lpia?
<cjwatson> you probably read a mention of it in the policy manual for the benefit of those running across truly ancient packages
<lamont> seb128: first gnome package failing to build on hppa.
<lamont> lpia was a convenient excuse to fix it, since it was found to be broken there (by inspection).
<lamont> at the moment, yelp is dep-wait on lpia.....
<lamont> seb128: although the glib2.0 thread tests are being annoying on hppa. (which comes as little surprise, sadly)
<lamont> seb128: and gnome-power-manager needs some love, gnome-system-tools needs love on all architectures
* lamont wonders if mdetect should be PaS'ed, or if it should be fixed to at least compile on non-x86 arches
<calc> ooo 1ubuntu2 uploaded
* calc hopes it works better on amd64/powerpc with java turned off for now
<seb128> lamont: I'll have a look at the g-s-t build issue
* lamont notes that enigmail is ftbfs with current gutsy (build-depends << superseded version)
* lamont finally runs off
<alex-weej> a question about our new friend, displayconfig-gtk
<alex-weej> if i have enabled the fglrx driver via restricted-manager
<alex-weej> and i choose "ati" in displayconfig-gtk
<alex-weej> i don't think DRI will work unless it uninstalls fglrx
<alex-weej> as fglrx supplies its own libGL etc.
<alex-weej> there needs to be some interplay i think here...
<alex-weej> anyone have any ideas?
<alex-weej> at least this was a problem for me before we had restricted manager and i was trying to use the ati driver by setting up my xorg.conf manually
<alex-weej> i needed to uninstall fglrx so that X would use the right GL driver
<alex-weej> ... GL implementation
<seb128> Riddell: could you accept the gdm update? it's a one key change to make the user lists theme work out of the box
<seb128> alex-weej: maybe worth mentioning on the #ubuntu-x channel
<alex-weej> seb128: on it thanks
<Riddell> seb128: can I see a debdiff?
<cprov> seb128: hi, do you know who is covering mvo on update-manager issues ?
<seb128> Riddell:
<seb128> +-Browser=false
<seb128> ++Browser=true
<seb128> Riddell: basically
<seb128> cprov: nobody? what issue exactly?
<seb128> cprov: I don't think other people from the team work on update-manager, better to ask on the chan if you have an issue
<cprov> seb128: it's refusing to refresh indexes from a specific PPA
<cprov> seb128: well, I don't have enough information (things are working normally here ), let the user come back with a better description of the problem. (thanks)
<Riddell> seb128: accepted
<seb128> Riddell: thanks
<seb128> cprov: maybe better to open a bug on launchpad or wait tomorrow when mvo will be around
<cprov> seb128: right.
<calc> i wrote two MIRs for openoffice build-depends :)
* calc waiting for the last one until its built in universe
<Riddell> calc: presumably not the version currently compiling?
<calc> Riddell: no i'm just going to use them for the next upload later, i am using internal copy for the current build
<calc> Riddell: there will be several more ooo uploads before gutsy, so it doesn't need to be in for the current build
<calc> once i verify libwpg builds everywhere i will be writing a MIR for it
* calc gets back to looking at ooo, bbl
<Riddell> infinity: I've accepted linux-source .29, hopefully you can see it and lrm/lum/meta compiled and I'll get up early tomorrow for CD building
<Riddell> bonus points if you update seeds and d-i too :)
<elmo> kylem: yes
<kylem> ?
<elmo> kylem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/discover-data/+bug/133824
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133824 in discover-data "Intel chipset on HP NC6320 (PCI 8086:27a2) not recognised" [Undecided,New] 
<kylem> thanks.
#ubuntu-devel 2007-08-22
<pkern> Ubuntu has CONFIG_SLUB=y set which breaks fglrx suspend/resume on 2.6.22... With CONFIG_SLAB=y it "works for me"(tm). Just if anyone cares... ;o)
<superm1> pkern, out of curiousity what do each of those do, CONFIG_SLUB/SLAB
<pkern> superm1: They are different allocators. SLUB was added in 2.6.22 in addition to the older SLAB.
<pkern> superm1: See lwn.net or kerneltrap for details.
<superm1> ah, i see
<tck> hi peeps
<tck> you may know better than me
<tck> but what is the netbug command ?
<tck>  netbug
<tck> Send network configuration summary to [ENTER means kuznet@ms2.inr.ac.ru] 
<tck>  ldd /sbin/netbug
<tck>         not a dynamic executable
<tck> 
<tck> strings /sbin/netbug shows it collecting lots of info from /proc
<ion_> Seems like it does exactly what it says it does.
<ion_> Please read the topic.
<tck> part of the iproute package i see
<webben_> Are there any Ubuntu Forums developers or admins about? I wanted to ask a question about the CAPTCHA?
<webben_> We really need to provide a way for blind and deafblind users to access the forums.
<RAOF> webben_: You probably want #ubuntuforums, right?
<webben_> ah, yes I probably do ... thanks :)
<calc> gar, amd64 failed again
* calc kicks OOo
* calc looks to see what caused the failure this time
<calc> i have a fix now for the amd64 can't build with java disabled issue :\
* calc hates having to keep hammer the buildds :(
<calc> i need to reinstall amd64 arch on my desktop so i can test on it locally
<ajmitch> aren't you glad you can upload only source?
<calc> probably could build ooo in under an hour on it
<calc> ajmitch: heh saves on my bandwidth yep :)
<calc> it would take years to upload with this piddly 64KB/s broadband here
<kylem> eh? i doubt your desktop is that much faster than the buildds.
<calc> ajmitch: the fun part is the java failure on amd64 was known for a while and the person who created the patch never applied it, its sitting in the bts
<calc> kylem: ccache and bypasses the gsi part of the build
<calc> kylem: i can build in under an hour on i386
<kylem> cheater. ;-)
<calc> it takes 8hr+ on the buildds
<kylem> you know you can testbuild on ronne right?
<kylem> and do ccache...
<kylem> file an rt to get added ot the porter group
<calc> getting all the right dependencies installed and sending patches to ronne is a pain since it has no direct network access (or seems like it anyway)
<calc> the install part is due to having to submit rt's etc
<calc> i'm going to reinstall my desktop when i have some downtime probably after the tribe5 release
* calc remembers he has to move this weekend, grr
<calc> can't do it after tribe5 release after all :\
<kylem> you can dput over scp into the dc
<kylem> anyway
<calc> kylem: got access to kill the i386 ooo build?
<kylem> nope
<kylem> infinity, ^-
<calc> infinity: awake still?
* calc hopes this next upload will be the last for tribe5
<calc> it fixes the java disable failure case
<infinity> calc: Ugh, again?
<calc> infinity: yea this time was due to lazy upstream didn't commit a fix when java is disabled it doesn't actually fully disable and the patch has been sitting around for a while :(
<calc> nearly 2 weeks in the bts gar
<calc> this should allow it to build except for sparc which ICEs
<calc> infinity: kill sparc build also please
<infinity> calc: I'll kill them all in a sec.
<infinity> calc: Several things on the go at once, won't be a moment.
<calc> infinity: no problem
<infinity> calc: Err, I have no builds to kill.  Looks like they all finished.
<infinity> except for i386, which I missed due to blindness.
<infinity> (killing now)
<calc> infinity: oh ok
<Hobbsee> morning all
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<bhale> hi LaserJock Hobbsee
<LaserJock> i bhale
<LaserJock> *hi
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee, LaserJock, bhale
<bhale> hi aj
<LaserJock> hi mitch ;-)
<bhale> haha
<calc> Hobbsee: hi :)
<calc> infinity: can you approve 1ubuntu3
<Hobbsee> morning calc
<calc> Hobbsee: good morning
<calc> Hobbsee: hmm maybe you could do it? do you have access to approve packages during freeze?
<Hobbsee> calc: heh, no, i'm a mere core dev.
<calc> Hobbsee: oh ok
<calc> Hobbsee: i thought you were a RM as well :)
<ajmitch> 'mere'. heh
<Hobbsee> calc: i may be on the release team, but i dont have access inside the DC
<calc> Hobbsee: ok
<Hobbsee> calc: a RM, sure, but not the head one, and i still dont have access to the DC :P
<calc> Hobbsee: oh ok
* calc prays that it is his last upload for tribe5
* Hobbsee isnt doing much this tribe release anyway - thought Riddell would find it easier to be doing it on his own
<infinity> calc: I'd ask for a diff, but I don't want to know, do I?  I just want to be told that this one will work.
<infinity> calc: So, please, tell me that.
<Hobbsee> (for his first)
<infinity> Hobbsee: He's had some help here and there. :)
<StevenK> infinity: "Please tell me you tested it?" too?
<Hobbsee> infinity: oh i realise that :)
<infinity> calc: Accepted.  If it doesn't build, I'll expect your head on a platter of some sort.  With cheese and crackers, and maybe a nice pate.
<LaserJock> ewww
<Hobbsee> calc: do i want to know if you test built it?
<StevenK> infinity: libnss-db!
<infinity> Hobbsee: No one test builds OOo, they just attempt to determine if their patch will fix the last failure through careful code auditing, prayer, and blind guessing.
<infinity> Mostly the latter two, a little less of the former.
<calc> infinity: its this
<calc> http://www.openoffice.org/nonav/issues/showattachment.cgi/47475/ooo-reportdesign.diff
<Hobbsee> infinity: so *that's* why it never builds.  man, i can see why we wouldnt want to give him core dev :P
<calc> hub created a patch ~ 11 days ago and never committed it
<calc> infinity: he just put it in bts, heh
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: it'd be funny if you were maintaining OOo
<infinity> calc: Dude, WTF?
<calc> Hobbsee: it only fails on non-i386 builds so no :\
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'm not insane.
<infinity> calc: How did no one catch that and fix it earlier?
<calc> infinity: because usually java is enabled for OOo since it disables lots of stuff
* infinity dies a little inside.
<calc> infinity: but current OOo is broken on amd64/powerpc with java enabled
<infinity> Yeah, like the help system, but who needs help?
<calc> infinity: at least on Ubuntu :\
<calc> infinity: heh, i'm going to rebuild my machine to amd64 asap and try to debug the larger java broken issue but it won't be before tribe5
<calc> infinity: tribe4 had java disabled for all
<calc> infinity: it works on i386 now, but not amd64/powerpc :\
<StevenK> calc: Dig up. I don't think you're helping.
<Hobbsee> yes, but tribe 4 had ooo not even working on kubuntu, so if you're saying that's some form of success....
<calc> Hobbsee: that was a bug/feature in glib/gtk
<Hobbsee> hah.  feature.
<calc> Hobbsee: it broke lots of other apps besides just OOo
<Hobbsee> i'm well aware
<calc> Hobbsee: like konqueror, acroread and several other things i don't recall at the moment (i don't use them)
<Amaranth> it was people using private gtk+ api when they shouldn't have
<calc> Hobbsee: aiui glib/gtk is doing a proper fix as well
<Hobbsee> yay!
<Amaranth> i didn't have to use that API to do my fake tooltips
<calc> Amaranth: that wasn't the issue afaict
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: sure, but you've forgotten the golden rule.  "always blame calc"
<calc> Amaranth: for OOo it was a call to gdk_screen that caused the hang
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: Good deal.
<Amaranth> calc: ...
<Amaranth> wow
* calc looks up the exact call
<calc> gdk_screen_get_font_options
<calc> now it is called like:
<calc> +    GdkScreen *pScreen = gdk_screen_get_default();
<calc> +    if (const cairo_font_options_t *pOptions = pScreen ? gdk_screen_get_font_options(pScreen) : 0)
<calc> to get around the hang
<Amaranth> so the problem is not having a valid GdkScreen?
<Amaranth> that just looks like a NULL check
<calc> Amaranth: apparently in this case yes, not sure if it is the same on the other apps
<Amaranth> well, notification-daemon broke around the same time and it was the tooltips issue
<calc> perhaps they did something that broke it at a lower level that affected both things
<Amaranth> pygtk too, that was embarrassing
<calc> i was reading a report about gtk init not being thread safe as well which might cause some problems
<Amaranth> held up the GNOME 2.19.6 or so release for quite some time
<Amaranth> none of it is thread-safe if you don't initiate threads and grab the lock properly
<calc> i might have misunderstood what i was reading in the bug report then
<Amaranth> i'm kind of jealous there, the java guys replaced the default lock with a reentrant one and just wrap every gtk+ call in their binding so in java you can just use gtk+ in threads with no worries
* LaserJock kicks Windows XP, stupid thing won't connect to my wifi
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: do you mean you expected XP to actually *work*?
<LaserJock> well, kinda yeah
* calc notes if amd64/powerpc still fail he is going to have to reinstall his box sooner rather than later
<Hobbsee> calc: you assume you'll be alive by that point
<StevenK> Yes. Since infinity is scary.
<calc> heh
<calc> i won't die until he sees me at UDS I'm sure ;)
<calc> maybe he'll forget by then
<Hobbsee> unless he comes and hunts you out.
<StevenK> Which he might.
<calc> I live in TX, we are hicks here ;)
<calc> I'll send Dick Cheney after him ;)
<calc> he's my daddy, lol
<StevenK> "Sir? Why are trying bring 2 AK-47s into the country?" 'Revenge.' "Ah, fair enough then."
<calc> isn't TX where everyone and their dog has a weapon?
<calc> of course all I have easy access to is a balisong not much competition to a AK-47
<calc> it seems the libcompress-zlib-perl issue is still on lpia
<infinity> calc: Working on it.
<ScottK> AK's are really over-rated anyway unless you need something that will work after you crawl through the mud.
<calc> ScottK: its been raining a lot here lately that might be useful ;)
<ScottK> I can see that.
<ScottK> Generally speaking though, unless you've trained and are good under stress, area effect weapons like shotguns are better.  You only have to be approximately right.
<ScottK> Or approximately wrong in your Daddy's case.
<Amaranth> ScottK: But the AK-47 gives you 'spray and pray'
<ScottK> Yes and it's stunningly easy to miss everything.
<calc> is there some way to make debuild log print the current time at the beginning of each line?
<calc> so that timing of builds can be more granularly examined?
<infinity> calc: A bit vile, but you could do:
<infinity> debuild | while read line; do echo "$(date +%H%M%S): $line"; done
<infinity> Oh, wait, debuild logs by default, doesn't it?
<infinity> Anyhow, make it spit to stdout (or use dpkd-buildpackage), and the above trick would work fine.
<calc> infinity: yea just not with the time
<calc> btw, i am testing a fix for the openoffice.org-l10n issue along with updating it to the latest openoffice.org debian dir
<calc> i'll hopefully have it uploaded in a few hours after i have verified the build
<calc> er yea so leave openoffice.org-l10n alone until i reupload it :)
<calc> i'm not going to upload it until i know that it works and that openoffice.org works as well since it uses the same rules file
<calc> that should be in less than 7hr
<ScottK> Give the rest of us a chance to use the buildd's for a while.
<calc> ScottK: yea and that too :)
<StevenK> Heh. calc isn't so good at sharing.
<calc> ScottK: l10n will only build on i386 so your mostly safe on that
<ScottK> Well that's one I've been waiting on.
<calc> its been building locally for about 2hr now so it should be done in another 3-4 i think
<calc> then i'll wait until amd64/powerpc pass on oo.o before uploading to make sure there isn't any other issues
<calc> if there is i will beat myself :\
* calc thinks murphy hates him
<ScottK> Murphy doesn't hate you.  Murphy is just Murphy.
<calc> heh
<ScottK> You're the one that took the OOO maintainer job.
<ScottK> Who hates you ?
<calc> so oo.o should be done around 11am UTC
<calc> ScottK: hehe, apparently I do as well ;)
<ajmitch> ScottK: probably the liquor cabinet ;)
<calc> hmm yea i have some alcohol should have been drinking that
<calc> maybe it would help me keep from screwing up uploads
<ScottK> At the very least it would help with the caring.
<ajmitch> it could produce some interesting changelog entries
* calc looked at sparc prices and decided it was a bit steep to have his own buildd at home
<StevenK> calc: Don't buy a new one, you berk.
<ajmitch> surely ebay has a few
<calc> even ebay was high for recent boxen
<calc> in the 2-3K range for low end stuff
<calc> like ultra 25
<calc> an ultra 10 is cheap but it would take years to build on that
<calc> i used to run Debian with KDE on one back ~ 2000
<calc> iirc its roughly equal in speed to a celeron 400
<ScottK> I know what you mean.  I've build kdepim on a PIII 700 w/ 256 MB of RAM and that was bad enough.
<calc> yuck, yea
<calc> i think the slowest box i compiled KDE on back when i maintained it was an athlon 1800 w/512MB
<calc> i just let the buildds build it for sparc
<calc> and i learned about using ccache with KDE, heh
<ScottK> I think I'm off to bed.  Good night everyone.
<calc> goodnight
* calc is going to bed/nap for a few hours as well
<calc> going to wake to check on the build in a few
<ajmitch> night calc
<pitti> Good morning
<kylem> good morning pitti.
<pitti> hey kylem
<StevenK> Morning pitti
<ajmitch> hey pitti
* elkbuntu hugs all GNOME hackers :)
<calc> pitti: good morning
* calc can't sleep
<calc> i mistakenly drank a large coke tonight at dinner ~ 7hr ago after having not drank any coke for a week or two
<calc> now i'm wired :\
<pitti> hey calc
<calc> pitti: oh btw i have a couple MIRs if you get bored ;)
<pitti> calc: are they necessary for tribe5?
<calc> they can wait until after tribe5 though due to the freeze
<calc> nah not needed for t5
<pitti> calc: so no new OOo for t5?
<calc> pitti: ones building right now
<pitti> calc: I'll still try to process them this week
<calc> pitti: if it works i'll be uploading another ooo-l10n as well
<calc> pitti: but if they can be processed in time for t6 i'll use them for the t6 ooo upload
* calc bbl
<StevenK> pitti: Should -9- be NBS'd out, or do we need to wait for -meta uploads and the like?
<pitti> StevenK: kernel is pretty screwed ATM, nothing to NBS yet
<pitti> StevenK: we are on it
<calc> pitti: oh btw kubuntu shouldn't need the ooo -gtk/-gnome deps once the ooo build finishes
<StevenK> Fair enough, I can visually grep -v it out of the list. :-)
<StevenK> pitti: The only thing that can be NBS'd out is libopenbabel1.
<dholbach> good morning
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey LaserJock
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<LaserJock> doing ok
<LaserJock> really busy, but that's normal
<kagou> hi pitti
<pitti> hey kagou
<kagou> pitti, could you have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe5
<pitti> kagou: in a bit
<kagou> pitti, i'v added a section for printing but as my english is poor, i will appreciate that you review it
<Hobbsee> pitti: kagou i'll check the english, i fyou want
<pitti> kagou: my English is far from perfect either, but I'll review it, and maybe add some things to it, too; thanks for the initial text!
<kagou> Hobbsee and pitti , nice thanks :)
<Hobbsee> pitti: OK, you go first, then i'll review *both* of yours
<pitti> Hobbsee: I'll ping you
<Hobbsee> :)
<pitti> kagou: do you mind if I make it a little less technical and more user-oriented?
<pitti> Hobbsee, kagou: page updated
<pitti> (the printing section only)
<kagou> pitti, no problem. I just want to let the world ;) know the great improvement of printing under Gutsy :) Thanks
<pitti> kagou: indeed, that was on my list to mention for the tribe, too
<pitti> gutsy rocks! :)
<kagou> Yes :)
<pitti> just some more fiddling with the AppArmor profile
<LaserJock> ugg, my printing got all screwed up with Gutsy
<LaserJock> hopefully it's worked out now, I hope
<kylem> pitti, do we have anything liek this? http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/08/21/a-step-by-step-guide-to-building-a-new-selinux-policy-module/
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/sponsoring/ now has colors
<pitti> kylem: not in GUI form, but aa-genprof is really useful
<mdke> dholbach: I guess gnome-user-docs will have to wait until after tribe now right?
<dholbach> mdke: sorry - I looked a bit into it yesterday, tried to find an optimal way to get it built and all that but got busy with other stuff
<dholbach> mdke: I'll look into it today again and see that we find a nice way to get that done, so it will be easier for you to ask me or others to upload that package
<mdke> dholbach: cool; what needs to be done to get it built? Isn't the existing build system ok?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> there are files that need to get automatically generated to make it buildable
<dholbach> as I said: I'll think of something clever
<mdke> dholbach: as a result of our changes?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> what's in SVN is only the raw files that are being changed
<dholbach> ./autogen.sh && make dist       will roll a buildable tarball from that
<mdke> dholbach: oh
<dholbach> i've not yet decided on how to represent your changes to that, how to roll the tarball, or to do a native package, etc
<mdke> dholbach: so the tarballs as released are different to the svn snapshot?
<mdke> if so, it sounds like we should be working from the tarballs and importing them to bzr rather than from the svn snapshot
<dholbach> mdke: svn export <...>/trunk; cd trunk; ./autogen.sh && make dist        will be called  gnome-user-docs-2.18.2.tar.gz  too, but in fact it will rather be something like  gnome-user-docs_2.18.2+svn20070822.orig.tar.gz
<dholbach> mdke: does that make sense?
<pitti> seb128: hey hey
<dholbach> that'd be more manual work for you
<dholbach> hey seb128
<seb128> hello pitti dholbach
<dholbach> mdke: I think that finding a clever automatic way is what we want
<pitti> seb128: is it deliberate that the deskbar applet now opens a separate window, instead of one attached to the icon?
<seb128> pitti: yes
<Hobbsee> pitti: pinching wikilock
<mdke> dholbach: ok, if you think so, then I'll follow you! Are there other packages that do it the same way?
<seb128> pitti: they redesigned the UI as a SoC
<dholbach> mdke: can't think of any atm - I'll look into it later today
<pitti> seb128: a pity :/
<mdke> dholbach: alright, thanks. If importing the gnome releases rather than svn is the Right Thing to do then please tell me so, because I don't mind doing that
<dholbach> I'll let you know
<mdke> dholbach: don't want to create work for you
<seb128> pitti: why?
<pitti> seb128: dunno, I liked the small window better
<seb128> k, you are not the only one looking at bugs
<seb128> let's see what they do
<cjwatson> dholbach: while you're on http://daniel.holba.ch/sponsoring/, the only way to tell which list something is on at the moment is to hover over the "list link" - perhaps the whole thing could be split up by list?
<dholbach> cjwatson: right - good idea - I'll do that later
<Hobbsee> kagou: did you want me to add you as part of the people getting credit for who wrote the page?
* dholbach needs to run some errands in a bit
<cjwatson> dholbach: thanks
<Hobbsee> pitti: </wiki lock>
<pitti> Hobbsee: thanks
<kagou> Hobbsee, yes. Thanks
* StevenK waits for the "OpenOffice.org not broken everywhere! We promise!" item on the wiki page ....
<pitti> StevenK: it is already; you mean 'anywhere'?
<StevenK> pitti: I'm only teasing. :-)
<seb128> pitti: do you know why system-config-printer Conflicts with gnome-cups-manager?
<pitti> seb128: yes, I did that a while ago
<pitti> seb128: it's nasty and hackish, but somehow we need to avoid two identical printer entries in the menu, and faciliate upgrades
<pitti> seb128: (and two printer icons in the tray)
<norsetto> is it just me, or #ubuntu-motu is dead?
<norsetto> is just me.....
<StevenK> It's just quiet. Deal.
<seb128> pitti: shouldn't the update-manager deal with that?
<seb128> pitti: that looks wrong to me to force users to remove one to try the other one
<pitti> seb128: u-m should also do it ideally, but doesn't ATM
<pitti> seb128: right, it's a bit evil
<pitti> seb128: but as I said you'll get duplicate notifications, icons, etc. when you have both installed
<seb128> pitti: right, but Conflicts are not meant to avoid having duplicate icons
<seb128> that's a packaging system abuse ;)
<pitti> seb128: I'm fine with removing the C/R again as soon as u-m cares about it
<seb128> k, will talk to mvo about it then, thanks
<pitti> seb128: I'll file a bug and milestone it for beta
<pitti> seb128: task and comment added to bug 107766
<seb128> pitti: thanks
* pitti wonders where ubotu does holidays
<Hobbsee> pitti: sweden.
<Lutin> infinity: ping ?
<norsetto> any idea when gobby will be moved to main?
<LaserJock> I think it already has
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is shipping it so I certainly hope it's in Main ;-)
<norsetto> OK, last I have seen here was still marking it as universe: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gobby/
<cjwatson> last I checked that was intentional
<cjwatson> LaserJock is mistaken, Edubuntu can't ship stuff in universe
<Mithrandir> it's approved for main, but it needs libxml++2.6 in main first
<cjwatson> I'd just found that out
<norsetto> ok, reason for asking is that I've got an outstanding merge for it in bug 133689, which is now subscribed to u-u-s for sponsorship
<cjwatson> personally I think it's messy to support, but we may be stuck with doing so anyway ...
<cjwatson> gobby is one of those things that's the best of its genre but still terrible
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: more like "least worst" than best, really.
<Mithrandir> or least bad, probably
<cjwatson> "least bad" is correct grammar
<Mithrandir> indeed, I saw that about two seconds after I pressed enter
<Mithrandir> sadly, multiplayer notepad doesn't have undo.
<norsetto> so, what should I do with that merge, let it die a natural end, subscribe u-m-s/unsubscribe u-u-s, ask for a freeze exception (it already got an UVFe), bury it under two tons of ground?
<cjwatson> it's in universe, u-u-s is fine ...?
<cjwatson> it's been on the list for promotion to main at some point for about a year and a half, it may not necessarily happen immediately ;)
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: extend it so it does.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: morning oh mistress of the universe!
<Hobbsee> greetings, norsetto.  do you want to do my physics assignment for me/
<norsetto> Hobbsee: about what?
<asac> talking about main: we need apturl in main as well ...  ubufox depends on it for the new plugin install service.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: electrostatics.
<asac> do i need to do something formally or will this happen semi-automatically?
<Mithrandir> asac: sounds like something that should not be a depends, but rather a recommends?
<norsetto> Hobbsee: sure ;-)
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: should be in main anyway
<asac> hmm that would require new code (testing if apturl exists and if not don't show apt results) ... because if apturl is not installed the plugin install will not work
<Hobbsee> bah.  why cant my computer get power over the wireless or something, so as not to require a cord?
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: true dat.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: it could, but staying close to it would not be advisable in that case.
<cjwatson> asac: I asked pitti about that yesterday ...
<seb128> Hobbsee: because getting power by wireless would probably not be good for you ;)
<Hobbsee> hmmm....
<cjwatson> asac: normally speaking it needs somebody to prod https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue, and then get an authorised person to approve and promote it
<pitti> asac: there still needs to be a MIR for it
* Hobbsee counts her lives.  7 left.
<Hobbsee> i'll risk it.
<Mithrandir> seb128: can we make  pkg-config --variable=pyexecdir pygtk-2.0 give out a python 2.5 path?
<cjwatson> Hobbsee: there are designs for wireless power around ...
<asac> pitti: do we need MIR for our own development?
<Hobbsee> neat!
<pitti> cjwatson: something else than microwaves or ridiculously strong magnetic fields?
<cjwatson> they're still kind of in the "article in scientific journal" stage rather than the "product on shelf" stage
<cjwatson> pitti: last article I read was safe around humans, at any rate
<seb128> Mithrandir: that looks like a good idea
<pitti> even if it's still academic it would be interesting to see a method that doesn't make your watch stick on the emitter, or fries your brain
<cjwatson> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6129460.stm
<cjwatson> EM wave resonance
<asac> pitti: i always understood that MIRs are needed to evaluate if we can provide support for packages ... which should be true for our own development imo.
<cjwatson> asac: that's true, and our own development clearly gets a pass over a lot of that stuff, but they're still a useful record of why stuff ended up in main
<cjwatson> "so, this thing we developed two years ago - what was it for exactly?"
<cjwatson> you'd be surprised sometimes ;)
<pitti> cjwatson: interesting, thanks for the link
<asac> cjwatson: ok
<norsetto> asac: thx for your comment in bug 107093, seems it is really HD related
<asac> norsetto: strange thing is that there are others in the bug report that claim the same behaviour ;)
<asac> norsetto: please drop that info to the bug ... i will then try to carefully review what is *really* left of those claims :)
<norsetto> asac: well, maybe its not just that make/model, perhaps its IDE controller related
<fabbione> doko_: ping?
<kagou> is it possible for a perl hacker to have a look at Bug #130813 apt-mirror is used to save bandwidth for many users/groups/install party
<norsetto> asac: interesting, on the bug there is another user with the same problem and same IDE controller
<doko_> fabbione: pong
<fabbione> doko_: mind to help me a second with a gcc-4.2 new warning? i don't understand it
<fabbione> doko: rg_thread.c:71: warning: the address of resthread_list will always evaluate as true
<doko> fabbione: taking the address of a variable always results in something != 0x0
<fabbione> doko: that's from redhat-cluster-suite built on lpia but i can see the same on i386 gcc-4.2
<asac> norsetto: so the IDE controller has general issues ... or it just a coincident because its a widely used one? have you tried to connect the same disk to your other controller?
<fabbione> doko: ok.. so how should that look?
<norsetto> asac: can't, the disk I'm using now is sata (being in a RAID actually)
<doko> fabbione: didn't look at the code, but just remove it?
<fabbione> doko: hem.. probably best to look at the code.. you can't remove it.
<cjwatson> doesn't seem to me that the warning can easily be removed
<norsetto> asac: by the way, I haven't got a single freeze since I was using konqueror for the feisty cycle, nor any other application. smart reports all clear
<cjwatson> doko: (it's in a macro that tests its pointer argument; it happens that in this use of the macro the pointer argument given is &something)
<fabbione> i can ask upstream to change...
<fabbione> or better... i can commit a fix upstream.. i just don't know how to fix this
<doko> looking ...
<cjwatson> I'd use -Wno-address personally ;-)
<fabbione> cjwatson: eheh
<doko> probably better, the warning looks ok
<fabbione> doko: we can fix the code if it's easier
<doko> fabbione: either that or suppress the warning, gcc is always right ;)
<cjwatson> __attribute__(__noreally__) ;-)
<fabbione> ROFL
<asac> pitti: i added apturl MIR to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
<pitti> asac: thanks will look at it ASAP
<asac> pitti: thanks ... its needed on CD
<cjwatson> iwj: if you need any more information on bug 134000, let me know today if possible; I'm holding off installing new packages for a bit to try to preserve state in case you need it
<paran> kylem: I see that you added irqbalance to UbuntuMainInclusionQueue in may, will that make it into gutsy? I can't find any mailing list threads discussing it
<paran> kylem: it would be great to have irqbalance in main. it really improves performance, especially when running scientific applications over many cores. I measured about 5% improvment in walltime on dual quad-core machines even without any significant irq load.
<pitti> Tonio_: ok, obexftp approved and promoted
<Tonio_> pitti: super
<iwj> cjwatson: Thanks.  I'll be right with you.
<asac> Tonio_: why did we go to wpasupplicant 0.6.0 (a development version) instead of 0.5.8 (latest stable) ?
<asac> Tonio_: how did you find that 0.6.0 is better in general ... or did it just work better for you?
<Tonio_> asac: I never worked on wpasupplicant....
<wolfe> asac: I don't know if you noticed, but it is common to use latest ;)
<wolfe> look at GNOME in example
<asac> wolfe: welll we align our schedule with gnome ... so when we release it will be stable
<Tonio_> asac: where did you find a log with my name in it ? :)
<wolfe> asac: yeah :)
<wolfe> when you release, maybe 0.6.0 will be stbale ;)
<asac> Tonio_: just out of my head ... probably confused you ... sorry.
<Tonio_> asac: hhe
<Tonio_> hehe
<asac> wolfe: the maybe is the problem here
<pkern> pitti: Did you try to promote Gobby to main?
<pitti> pkern: yes, I did, but I demoted it again due to libxml++2.5
<pitti> 2.6 even
<asac> Tonio_: ah it was siretart ...
<asac> siretart: how did you find that 0.6.0 is better in general ... or did it just work better for you?
<pkern> Ah so that's the reason. *cough* Now we did a native Avahi port to circumvent the demotion because of Howl...
<pkern> pitti: Thanks.
<pitti> pkern: it just needs a MIR for libxml++
<pitti> pkern: (or the dependency removed, if that's possible and sensible to do, of course)
<pitti> pkern: yay for native avahi support :)
<dholbach> can it use libxml++2.6? that should be in main
<pitti> libxml++2.6 | 2.18.2-0ubuntu1 | gutsy/universe | source
<dholbach> ugh
<pitti> dholbach: that's what it uses
<asac> siretart: the question was about wpasupplicant :)
<dholbach> pitti: ok :-/
<pitti> it doesn't sound scary, but someone needs to review it for sanity and QA, etc.
<iwj> cjwatson: I don't need any more information from your system, thanks.
<iwj> This is in some sense operating as designed but the behaviour of apt is suboptimal.
<iwj> I'm going to think about it a bit.
<cjwatson> iwj: ok
<cjwatson> thanks for the investigation
<iwj> No, thank you.
<pitti> asac: apturl approved
<pitti> asac: and promoted
* asac hugs pitti
<pkern> pitti: The requirements for main inclusion don't look too hard. I guess I could review it then.
<pitti> pkern: please just make sure to use the proper template instead of copying&pasting from an existing report
<Riddell> pitti: if you're in a main inclusion review mood, could you look at MainInclusionKvKbd?  the build failure iwj had should be fixed now
<pitti> Riddell: ok
<pitti> Riddell: did you test kvkbd for general "it works"?
<pitti> Riddell: oh, that thing is still in NEW
<pitti> Riddell: shouldn't it get at least some testing before we put it into main? or did you build and test it yourself?
<pitti> Riddell: binary-NEWed now
<siretart> asac: since I recently changed my hardware (from madwifi to ipw3945) I don't think I can reasonably say which version worked better for me. For my old atheros card, I couldn't find any regressions
<asac> siretart: can you check how 0.5.8 works with ipw3945?
<asac> siretart: i mean ... it can only get better ;) ... especially how wpasupplicant and nm work together
<siretart> asac: network-manager and wpasupplicant and ipw3945 work reasonably well for me, apart from bug #124706
<siretart> (which I consider RC, but I agree that YMMV, and I don't have the ressources to debug/fix that one)
<Riddell> pitti: we tested it at UDS and while packaging
<Riddell> and it does just work for us, heno looked at it briefly too
<dholbach> cjwatson: hope you like it better now: http://daniel.holba.ch/sponsoring
<pitti> Riddell: ok, cool
<asac> siretart: we have so many issues with ipw3945 that I would really like to try if wpasupplicant plays better with nm
<siretart> asac: I have seen the bugs, and I think that I'm affected by some of them as well
<pitti> Riddell: ok, promoted then
<Riddell> great, thanks
<asac> siretart: i doubt that it will help as its probably more driver related, but since nm really gets shaky if unexpected things happen maybe it helps to use a stable version
<siretart> asac: I could even imagine that some of the existing bugs are actually duplicates of bug #124706
<asac> siretart: unfortunately i don't have ipw3945 :/ to test.
<siretart> :(
<asac> siretart: might be ... its pretty blurry for me what contributes to the current situation ... but its definitly bad
<siretart> right
<siretart> we could perhaps provide a test package of 0.5.8 in a ppa
<asac> siretart: i have a source package here ... can you give it a shot and if you don't see any regressions we can try a bit more wide-spread testing in ppa?
<cjwatson> dholbach: MUCH better, thanks!
<siretart> asac: do you have a list of current ipw3945 bugs? perhaps there is even a tag for them yet?
<dholbach> super
<asac> siretart: i added [ipw3945]  to the title
<asac> siretart: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/?field.searchtext=ipw3945&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=New&field.status%3Alist=Incomplete&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
<asac> siretart: maybe we can even try to upgrade the kernel module to latest upstream release (1.2.2) ... or 1.2.0 (the one we have in feisty)
<siretart> asac: I think that is more probable to fix some of the issues. I cannot really imagine that an earlier version of wpasupplicant would fix things here
<siretart> I'm currently on a buisness trip, so I won't be able to look at them before tomorrow :(
<asac> siretart: 0.6.0 is development version 0.5.8 is stable
<siretart> I know
<siretart> there is only one upstream developer working on it, and the changes from the two versions aren't too far away
<siretart> and jouni is a very careful programmer. that's why I have doubt that we gain much by downgrading the package
* siretart out for dinner. cu later!
<asac> siretart: cu
<siretart> s/dinner/lunch/
<Mithrandir> seb128: also, is there a reason why pygtk doesn't ship gtk/gtk-extrafuncs.defs?  It's included by gtk-base.defs
<seb128> Mithrandir: no, that would be a bug
<Mithrandir> seb128: want a bug about that and the pygtkexecdir bug we discussed?  I'd really like those two things fixed so I can get python-hildon into the archive.
<seb128> Mithrandir: feel free to open a bug or do an upload to fix those as you prefer
<pitti> carlos: btw, pkgbinarymangler has always stripped restricted packages (re our discussion about restricted-manager a while ago); don't you get tarballs?
<Mithrandir> seb128: ok, I'll do the latter, then.
<carlos> pitti: not yet, I still need to finish some changes on launchpad to stop discarding them...
<pitti> carlos: right, but AFAICS there's nothing to do on my side, right?
<carlos> pitti: right
<calc> 1ubuntu3 fixed the amd64/powerpc java issue :)
<ogra> is there any drop in replacement for libssl-dev build deps ?
<soren> ogra: Well, gnutls has a compatibility layer of some sort, but I doubt it's very good. If it were, everyone would be using it instead of openssl. :)
<tkamppeter> kagou, ping
<soren> Open wifi in Singapore airport ftw!
<ogra> soren, well, i'd like to get libflashsupport in but it links against libssl-dev (openssl license) and libpulse-dev (GPL) ...
<ogra> i'll try the gnutls compatibily layer to get it in at all ...
<ogra> soren, thanks for the hint
<soren> ogra: Tat's not only a common problem, mbut also seems to be one that doesn't have an easy solution.
<soren> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnutls/manual/gnutls.html#Compatibility-with-the-OpenSSL-library
<soren> ogra: Good luck. :) I'd love to hear how it works out for you.
<ogra> well, looks easy enough ... i'm not even sure ssl is needed at all for that thing to do waht i want (make flash work with pulse)
<asac> siretart: the diff -u is 1M ... i won't consider that small :)
<asac> siretart: the changes look rather intrusive
<asac> siretart: i don't say that 0.6.0 is buggy ... my only fear is that NM is tuned to work with 0.5.x
<cr3> is there any reason why there is no dvd for milestone releases, such as tribe releases for gutsy?
<ogra> cr3, do you volunteer to test them every three weeks ?
<cr3> ogra: how would the milestone dvd be different from the current dvd: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd/current/
<ogra> cr3, lots more to test, more packages and install variants ...
<ogra> beyond that indeed a lot more bandwith consumption for rsyncs since there is a lot more on them
<cr3> ogra: to answer your question bluntly, I honestly don't have the time :(
<ogra> its a matter of manpower and time
<ogra> snap :)
<cr3> ogra: could you suggest a workaround in order to get an accurate snapshot in time of a milestone release? I could run debmirror on the day of the release, but I'm not sure how accurate that might be
<termitor> <termitor> hello, rt2x00 freeze , when nm-applet connect
<termitor> <termitor> Linux proton 2.6.22-9-generic #1 SMP Fri Aug 3 00:50:37 GMT 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
<termitor> <termitor> who have some info about this , or patch ?
<ogra> cr3, well, the recent build that was tested for a milestone is usually listed at https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/isotesting/
<termitor> (sorry for my blabla)
<ogra> if make sure to get a DVD of the same build that should work
<termitor> maybe https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22/+bug/129183 ?
<ogra> but note that the dailies are usually wiped after thee days
<iwj> Riddell: You'll let us know when there are some tribe 5 images to test, right ?
<iwj> Or if we can help some other way ...
<Riddell> iwj: yes indeed, but still got openoffice compiling, linux modules and d-i to do
<kagou> tkamppeter, pong
<iwj> Riddell: Right.  Just checking I hadn't missed anything.  It's unnaturally quiet ...
<iwj> Sorry to bother you.
<siretart> asac: hm. i see your point. well, I can of course try to use 0.5.8 of wpasupplicant, but as said, the worst problem I'm facing is bug #124706, which is very unlikely to be dependent on the wpasupplicant release
<cjwatson> iwj: the kernel slipped rather late
<cjwatson> little collection of problems there
<asac> siretart: can you please attach a more verbose debug/daemon log do that bug?
<asac> siretart: ok out for (extended/appointment) lunch ... cu later
<Kmos> current dist not found in meta-release file
<Kmos> could not send the dbus Inhibit signal: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.gnome.PowerManager was not provided by any .service files
<Kmos> current dist not found in meta-release file
<Kmos> this is normal on update-manager ?
<Kmos> i run it in console
<siretart> asac: there are several more verbose logs in the links mentioned in the bug, but if it helps you to have mine, sure!
<glatzor> Kmos: no
<Kmos> glatzor: you know if there is any bug about that yet ?
<glatzor> Kmos: you are running feisty?
<glatzor> Do you have uninstalled gnome-power-manager?
<Kmos> glatzor: gutsy
<Kmos> no, gnome-power-manager is installed
<Kmos> i've the latest updates :)
<Kmos> now i ru update-manager and it doesn't show that error again.. strange
<Kmos> *run
<infinity> Lutin: Pong?
<kagou> tkamppeter_,  pong
<\sh> hmmm...xorg pros...is the ati radeon RV100 (Radeon 7000/VE) meant to work with compiz?
<\sh> gnarf...xinerama mode doesn't work anymore with a digital port and an analog port using oss radeon driver
<ogra> oss radeon ? do they include sound support now ?
<ogra> *g*
<\sh> ;)
<\sh> s/oss/OpenSource/
<ogra> indeed
<\sh> on feisty it still worked with this card....gnarf
<\sh> but looks like that this problem is reproducable..on my t43 laptop with radeon m300 card the analog port doesn't work in xinerama mode, too
<tkamppeter> kagou, I have seen your comments on the bug report. Means that scanning for SMB-shared printers works now, but the GUI to select from the results is broken.
<kagou> tkamppeter, indeed
<tkamppeter> kagou, I have observed the same problem: Only the first server has the little triangle and there I can actually select a printer, the following servers have no triangle and I cannot select a printer.
<kagou> are you sure about the format for the printers dict
<kagou> tkamppeter, yyou are right
<tkamppeter> kagou, I have used the same format as the old function used.
<kagou> i can select only printer that host have triangle
<kagou> tkamppeter, others hots without triangle, show printer after double click but can not select thrm
<tkamppeter> kagou, then it has exactly the same behavior for you.
<kagou> tkamppeter, indeed
<kagou> tkamppeter, i'v also re-opened Bug 128261 but it's less important (just because printer work)
<kagou> tkamppeter, but in the same time Bug #128261 show us that parameters are not (may be) well passed to the widget
<dholbach> mdke: if you merge from   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dholbach/gnome-user-docs/fixes  building will be easier. just install bzr-builddeb and run    bzr bd -S --native   and it will build you a shiny source package that even builds -- also it tells you how to best version the thing
<dholbach> (still pushing the changes up)
<Lutin> infinity: could you have a look at the loadlin build please ? I got a 'failed to upload' mail for i386, but it seems to be ok for amd64
<alex-weej> seb128: sorry about the confusion with "tasks" vs. "also affects"... maybe i should take this up with the launchpad devs
<asac> siretart: well ... would be great to have all needed info in that bug ... e.g. maybe pick the important stuff from the referenced ones
<asac> siretart: but i can do it as well
<seb128> alex-weej: that's ok, the idea is to list the places where the bug needs to be fixed, not every applications where you can notice it
<alex-weej> seb128: i assume "tasks" was terminology that was in older versions of LP?
<seb128> alex-weej: like we don't use "also affects" to add every GNOME applications to GTK bugs ;)
<alex-weej> also i really want to ensure that the fix goes into gecko, not just specifically into Firefox
<seb128> alex-weej: right, a bug can have different tasks, still accurate
<seb128> alex-weej: what do you call "gecko"?
<alex-weej> you can fix it in Firefox with dodgy JS extensions that do weird and wonderful things, that would close a firefox task but leave my original bug against ephy out in the cold :<
<seb128> alex-weej: also affects xulrunner would be correct (if it happens using it)
<alex-weej> well, i guess specifically i mean libgtkmozembed
<seb128> alex-weej: well, if that's shipped in the firefox sources that's still a bug on this package
<alex-weej> probably is
<alex-weej> but as another case, the problem with font changes not being picked up by gtkmozembed
<alex-weej> it has to be marked against firefox - and that sucks, i don't really care about firefox. gtkmozembed can have specific code to listen for changes to gtk settings and that closes the bug easily
<seb128> alex-weej: well, gtkmozembed is firefox code
<alex-weej> it doesn't fix firefox, but all i am concerned with is epiphany
* alex-weej is selfish like that
<seb128> alex-weej: right, be the bugs are assigned to the source to fix
<seb128> alex-weej: if GTK+ has a bug which breaks epiphany the bug is on GTK
<alex-weej> yeah i know
<Hobbsee> you know, it's a darn pain when people are running gutsy, new to linux, because it's the only distro that actually supports their wireless with wpa.
<mjg59> s/with wpa//
<asac> siretart: now reading the references in that bug ... anyway, imo to ask for reasons why we want to use the stable version is not really the right way to look at this ... its the development we have to question here ... so if we don't know any benefit of the new version (e.g. support this and that new hardware) ... i would really vote to not stay on 0.6.0 (unless the wpasupplicant upstream says that it will certainly become stable for gutsy) ... mak
<alex-weej> i'm just saying that when i file a GNOME integration bug against epiphany, and it gets changed as a bug against firefox, that annoys me because it means that the solution is more complicated, as firefox is not a GNOME application
<alex-weej> but if that's the way we do it...
<\sh> bryce, ping radeon dualhead/xinerama setup on gutsy...
<siretart> asac: right, thats why we have the 0.6.0 release since early of the beginning of the gutsy cycle. I haven't heared about regressions in that version yet
<siretart> asac: and from what I understand from you, it is rather a suspicion  which may or may not be true. I'll therefore test on my laptop with the earlier version tomorrow when I'm back home
<infinity> Lutin: I'll track that down for you in a bit, after I'm back from lunch.  Thanks for the heads-up.
<asac> siretart: as i said above ... my main concern is that nm is tuned for 0.5.x (and not that 0.6.0 itself is buggy) and might get confused by just slightly changed behaviour of wpasupplicant because it relies on the events wpasupplicant emits.
<Lutin> infinity: thank you
<j1mc> hi all.  xubuntu ISO's contain uninstallable ubufox binaries.  (i'm aware of current kernel issues, too.)  is the ubufox problem present across other ubuntu variants, too?  thanks.
<asac> siretart: unfortunately all apps (nm,wpa,driver) got updated at once so we cannot track down where the regressions stem from ... but as a matter of fact lots of users complain about regressions ... i am just trying to track down which setup might bring us to a more stable behaviour.
<Hobbsee> j1mc: it's not on the uninstallable list now.  do you have a reason for it broken on there?
<j1mc> Hobbsee: it came up as uninstallable in the daily Xubuntu health check email.
<j1mc> i can forward you some of the discussion i had with the packagers if it would help.
<j1mc> i think it was dependent on a package being included in main.
<Hobbsee> j1mc: looking
<Hobbsee> j1mc: apturl isnt installable for some reason
<Hobbsee> because it's in universe
<Hobbsee> ubuntu, edubuntu, gobuntu desktops will also get this
<j1mc> ok.  is it a problem regarding building the ISO's then?  i'm not sure how it will affect things.
<Hobbsee> j1mc: ubufox is depending on a package in universe, so cant install.
<Hobbsee> j1mc: getting it fixed.
<j1mc> ok.  thanks.  :)
<Hobbsee> j1mc: it's fixed.  waiting for mirrors to update
<j1mc> thanks so much, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> j1mc: thank pitti, he fixed it.
* Hobbsee only isolated the problem
<j1mc> thanks, pitti!
<pitti> :)
<ogra> pitti, Q-funk added a MIR for mkelfimage ...
<xhaker> howdy, pygi :)
<pygi> hello xhaker
<xhaker> I might need your help
<pygi> xhaker, sure, shoot me a pm
<pitti> carlos: just if someone asks: I disabled the daily PPA uploads for stable langpacks
<pitti> carlos: PPAs seem to be in limbo ATM, and we don't strictly need the daily updates in the next two weeks
<pitti> carlos: I'll migrate to the new PPAs when I return from honeymoon and the production PPAs settled
<carlos> ok
<dholbach> mdke: pushed up now
<carlos> pitti: have you updated an updated version yesterday or today?
<pitti> carlos: it should have gotten one on Sunday
<pitti> carlos: I only do it on Sundays and Thursdays now
<pitti> carlos: to not entirely kill the PPA buildd
<pitti> bryce: do you have an opinion about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportXserverXorgVideoAmd ?
<carlos> pitti: ok
<carlos> pitti: thanks for letting me to know
<pitti> carlos: gutsy uploads continue
<pitti> ogra: did you ever actually try out mkelfimage?
<ogra> pitti, on one device (i have oinly one working LinuxBios client here) sbalneav did some tests too i was told
<sbalneav> pitti: I've done some testing.  I'll do some more in the next couple of days with some etherboot hw I have.
<sbalneav> so far seems ok.
<sbalneav> and allows linuxbios stuff to work.
<ogra> it produces a bootable image for the device i tested it on....
<ogra> which was the main scope of having it :)
<ogra> i dont think you'll find many of these yet anyway :)
<pitti> ogra: I'm just looking at the MIR and wonder what to do with it, and if it's supportable
<ogra> well, it will be only used in the rare case where you need to build an etherboot image for LinuxBios driven devices ... its really "corner software"
<ogra> i actually only know two devices
<pitti> ogra: what was the other thing called like? mknbi or so?
<ogra> right
<ogra> thats using INT19 calls or something which LinuxBios doesnt support
<pitti> is mkelfimage a replacement, or a supplement?
<ogra> supplement
<ogra> well, its not a module for mknbi or so but it fills a gap mknbi doesnt
<pitti> sbalneav, ogra: would it be useful for you to have it in main now?
<ogra> before beta at least
<sbalneav> pitti: Sure.
<ogra> the image build script nedds some lines of adjustment that need to happen before release, so having it in early enough for that small change would be fine
<ogra> not urgently needed for tribe 5 or so
<pitti> ogra: nope, I mean "in gutsy"
<ogra> indeed
<sbalneav> yes
* sbalneav holds breath
<ogra> pitti, having it wins us a potential OEM customer for canonical ;) http://www.artecgroup.com/thincan/
<pitti> yay
<ogra> so indeed :)
<sbalneav> So, it's in?
<ogra> not yet
* ogra pokes his ellbow in scotts ribs ... dont be pushy ... :)
* pitti hands sbalneav an ice cream
<ogra> heh
<pitti> (that should last until I'm done with the review :-P)
<sbalneav> Not pushy, just excited :)
<sbalneav> I'm like a little kid, bouncing up and down in the back seat.  "Arewethereyet?Arewethereyet?"
<ogra> pitti, btw, how long do we have the pleasure of your attendance here ? werent you supposed to be travelling already ?
<ogra> (congrats btw)
<sbalneav> Mmm, ice gream.
<sbalneav> err cream
<pitti> ogra: thanks! we leave Saturday, early morning
<ogra> (and congrats to mrs. pitt asd well ;) )
<ogra> *as
<pitti> so it's pretty much a normal work week (well, modulo grabbing photos, and doing some post-wedding errands)
<pitti> ogra, sbalneav: looks fine; approved and promoted
<sbalneav> \o/
* sbalneav gives pitti a big bro-hug
<pitti> np
<pitti> ogra: can you please seed it, so that it stays in main?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> adding it to edubuntu-server for now, i dont want to do an extra ltsp uplaod to get the new dep into ltsp-client now ...
<\sh> cool...dual head setup works again with a complete new configuration....and even compiz works with it..but only on the first quarter of the two screens ;)
<tkamppeter> kagou, ping
<cjwatson> infinity: re our discussion about bootable flags yesterday - http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partitions/partition_types.html#toc2.9 and feel your brain melt
<Hobbsee> mmm...brains...
<dholbach> TheMuso: there's a new orca and gnome-speech - do you want to do the honours?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: likely asleep
<dholbach> Hobbsee: he'll probably check when he gets back
<Hobbsee> true
<coNP> Do you know if gimp 2.4 will be included in Gutsy? I don't know its release cycle, is it bound to Gnome 2.20 or independent?
<desrt> coNP; independent
<Lutin> pitti: around ?
<pitti> Lutin: yes, for some more minutes
<bryce> pitti, yep, I support adding it to main.  I'd encouraged martin-eric to write up the MIR, and will add it to xorg-xserver-video-all once it's in
<Lutin> pitti: could you reject libhandoff ? I requested the sync but it's not going to be used by anything in gutsy
<pitti> bryce: I approved and promoted it; adding it to -all would be appreciated, because ATM there's nothing that holds it in main
<pitti> Lutin: done (although we'll get it again for the autosync wave in gutsy+1)
<bryce> pitti, excellent, will do
<doko> calc: OOo dependency fun. known? or should we just wait for the -l10n build to finish? but I'm unable to install the packages without language packages as well
<Lutin> pitti: yep, but it was rather useless for gutsy. thanks :). btw, any chance that you have at kdenlive (in NEW source) ? I'm leaving on saturday and won't have chance to upload it before the new packages freeze if there are issues
<wasabi> somebody kindly tell me what the "official" plans for compiz are.
<wasabi> The compiz package in gutsy seems to depend on fusion stuff....
<pitti> Lutin: on my archive day on Friday perhaps, I need to leave now
<Lutin> pitti: ok. thanks :)
<Riddell> Lutin: it's seb128's archive day today
<seb128> Lutin: I'll have a look to it later
<Lutin> Riddell, seb128 : thanks :)
<calc> doko: known and fixed i believe
<calc> doko: what was the exact problem you sa
<calc> doko: saw
<doko> calc: wants to remove all ooo packages
<calc> doko: yea i think that will be resolved when l10n is uploaded
<calc> doko: which should be in 6-7hr
<doko> calc: hmm, strange that I'm unable to just keep the files with removing the -l10n package
<calc> hmm that is strange
<doko> tried i386
* calc looks at the bzr diff to see if he can determine what is causing doko's issue
<doko> calc: or try to install from the archive
<calc> doko: its installing from the archive for me, at least it claims to be
<A20> BenC: Here?
<calc> i'll do a second update after it finishes this round to see if it is missing anything
<BenC> A20: yes
<A20> BenC: great, i tryed to speak to you in private, but looks like my messages are blocked
<calc> A20: ident to services
<A20> BenC: i want try to work on project that you mentors
<BenC> A20: driver-device-manager?
<A20> yeah
<BenC> A20: have at it :)
<A20> BenC: Cesare Tirabassi forwarded mail with my background info to you
<BenC> A20: I saw that
<BenC> A20: not sure what you need from me, basically the project just needs to be done
<A20> BenC: I'm newble here and maybe you can point me where to start
<BenC> A20: the spec pretty much explains everything
<BenC> if you have any specific questions from there, email them, please
<calc> doko: which set of packages were you upgrading between?
<doko> calc: never mind, had still an -l10n-en-za package
<calc> doko: oh ok
<doko> removing that one lets the install continue
<A20> BenC: ok, I'll try to learn everything by myself
<doko> calc: why do you remove the changelog entries from your previous uploads?
<calc> doko: they are nearly duplicates each time i can keep them if needed, but the changelog entry is just the difference between Debian and Ubuntu packaging
<calc> it would make for a very large changelog of course, but if i should keep it around i can
<doko> calc: please keep them, we do have the packages available in launchpad, and it's difficult to see what really changes between uploads (and it's not the real changes)
<calc> ok
<cjwatson> please make it clear in changelogs that you're documenting the differences
<cjwatson> the usual syntax is:
<asac_the_2nd> calc: i think its ok to list differences between debian and ubuntu on first upload ... then on subsequent ubuntu uploads just document what changed
<cjwatson>   * Resynchronise with Debian. Remaining changes:
<cjwatson>      - blah
<calc> asac_the_2nd: for each 1ubuntu1 release?
<cjwatson> we have a policy saying you should do that, somewhere
<calc> cjwatson: ah i forgot the resync line
<cjwatson> calc: each merge with Debian, yes
<cjwatson> and yes, discarding old changelog entries is generally a bad idea
<cjwatson> even if they're identical sets of differences being documented, that's useful information
<calc> cjwatson: the old changelog entries conflict on merge as well :\
<cjwatson> correct
<cjwatson> but that's trivial
<cjwatson> deal with it :)
* infinity smirks.
* calc will have to look at the full changelog file and copy in parts since changelog entries apparently were removed from debian partially when converted to ubuntu
<doko> epoch'd OOo sucessfully installed
<calc> doko: ok
<doko> calc: you did remove *all* ubuntu changelog entries, afaics
<calc> doko: rather i didn't merge them, since there were lots of conflicts, i'll go back and eye debian vs ubuntu changelogs and merge them by hand
<asac_the_2nd> doko: fwiw, my changelog entries have disappeared from java as well ;)
<calc> doko: for 2.3 i started from debian repo and merged up all the ubuntu changes back into it
<doko> asac_the_1/2nd: well, overlapping uploads
<asac_the_2nd> yes i know ;)
<cjwatson> calc: typically there's one conflict at the top and then a load of offsets
<cjwatson> I usually just let patch do it and then apply the .rej by hand (which is usually very short)
<calc> cjwatson: there are a lot more conflicts in ooo changelog due to pulling between debian releases (i guess?)
<doko> calc: it's less error prone to merge the debian changes (just the new ones) into the ubuntu package, than the other way around. should be even easier with bzr
<cjwatson> pulling between Debian releases should only make a difference to the immediate next merge
<cjwatson> after that it should be all offsets unless the Debian maintainer edits history
<calc> cjwatson: it appears it wasn't remerged properly afterwards, heh
<calc> cjwatson: at least for the changelog
<calc> but yea it should only take an hour or so to remerge all of debian/ubuntu history together properly
<cjwatson> seriously, though, this is all relatively straightforward and it's important when trying to figure out what happened in the past
<calc> and then it won't be an issue after that
<cjwatson> it should take much less time if you base your work on an Ubuntu changelog from before dropping the changelog items
<calc> cjwatson: i think what doko said may indicate the changelog was never fully merged from debian in the past
<calc> i can get it merged no problem, i'll go ahead and start on it now so it will be in the next uploaded version of ooo
<doko> calc: wrong, what do you mean by "fully merged"? if you pull from the debian archive between debian uploads, you don't get the "complete" changelog.
<calc> doko: there are ubuntu changelog entries from before i maintained ooo that look like they rewrite the debian changelog in areas
<calc> doko: when doing a diff between 2.2.1-5 and 2.2.1-5ubuntuX
<calc> doko: so it appears that the debian changelog wasn't fully merged up with ubuntu when the merges were done
<doko> calc: yes, that's what I mean. why don't you just keep the changelog as it was?
<calc> cjwatson: so should the changelog reflect a merge of ubuntu with the debian sources or whatever happened in ubuntu with rewriting parts of the debian changelog...?
<calc> i can easily just merge it fully and get it over with
<lucas> somebody knows how to make mutt start epiphany instead of iceweasel when I open a text/html mail part?
<ion_> People think this is an Ubuntu support channel all the time, but a Debian support channel as well? :-)
<lucas> oops, wrong window :-)
<cjwatson> calc: each Ubuntu upload should have a changelog entry, and that changelog entry should be preserved (except if the package is completely synced with Debian); when you merge from Debian, the Debian entries should end up above the previous Ubuntu entry, and then another Ubuntu entry should be inserted at the top documenting the fact of the merge, remaining changes, and (separately) any further changes made in that upload
<cjwatson> calc: with the exception of syncs (which I doubt will happen for OOo), it's never correct to discard old Ubuntu changelog entries, and usually never to remove them. Just leave them as they were, even if they seem to duplicate something else.
<cjwatson> calc: they might well duplicate nearby entries in the Debian changelog in the event that changes were backported to Ubuntu
<calc> cjwatson: ok no problem, will fix them now
<mdke> I've just tried to install bzr-builddeb on feisty but it won't let me, seems to be because I'm using the bzr from the bazaar-vcs.org/ feisty repository; is there anything I can do?
<mdke> error is unmet dependencies as follows: bzr-builddeb: Depends: bzr (< 0.16~) but 0.90~rc1-1 is to be installed
<pygi> mdke, you can probably ignore dependencies
<pygi> (when installing)
<mdke> pygi: that wouldn't cause any problems?
<pygi> mdke, who knows, but you said you want to do something =)
<pygi> bzr-builddeb might or might not work with new bzr
<mdke> pygi: can I get a better bzr-builddeb package that will?
<mdke> maybe the gutsy one?
<pygi> mdke, well, afaik bzr will release tonight or tomorrow, so soon we'll get those packages in repos  ?
<pygi> mdke, nop, gutsy still doesn't have the new bzr. It'll have once bzr is released
<mdke> ok
<mdke> thanks pygi
<pygi> mdke, yw, wish I could be more helpful :-/
<pygi> mdke, hm, you could try this: it says it dependency is 0.18 and above. Feisty package doesn't allow above.
<pygi> mdke, http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/devel/bzr-builddeb
<mdke> pygi: neat, thanks
<j1mc> hi all - will we be ISO testing today?  i know about kernel problems from earlier today, but haven't heard much in the way of updates since then.
<Riddell> j1mc: yes, should be available soon
<j1mc> Riddell: thank you.
<ScottK> calc: OOO Writer starts for me now on Kubuntu.  I never tried the ooo-gtk work around on this computer.
<calc> ScottK: cool :)
<ScottK> I thought you might be at least slightly interested.
<calc> yea, we can disable the workaround in kubuntu meta now :)
* calc bbl
<Riddell> calc: it's gone
<ion_> benc: Theres a bug in nvidia_supported that causes it to output nothing with the new version of nvidia_new. This should fix it. http://heh.fi/tmp/nvidia_supported.diff
<BenC> ion_: sweet, thanks
<ion_> benc: How about making nvidia_new the highest priority driver in l-r-m debian/rules now, btw?
<ion_> That is, move it before nvidia and nvidia_legacy when calling nvidia_supported.
<BenC> ion_: Might do that
<Riddell> heno, stgraber, anyone who wants to test tribe: kubuntu CDs are up
<heno> Riddell: cool, thanks!
<evand> uh oh, the manifest shows busybox-initramfs 1:1.1.3-5ubuntu3
<Riddell> evand: is that bad?
<evand> Riddell: it needs to have 1.1.3-5ubuntu4 otherwise the read-only filesystem wont be able to mount and when the installer gets to the copying files stage it will crash as it will have copied nothing (as /rofs is empty) and the steps that follow expect certain files to exist.
<Riddell> evand: so we need a new build of ubiquity?
<heno> Kubuntu CD test entries are up: https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/All
<evand> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/b/busybox/busybox_1.1.3-5ubuntu4/changelog
<evand> negative, we just need busybox-initramfs 1.1.3-5ubuntu4 on there
<evand> I'm not sure why it's not using the most recent version as it seems to be using the most recent version of everything else
<evand> actually, we need the newest version of ubiquity on there as well (1.5.11) as 1.5.10 wont work on kubuntu
<cjwatson> evand: that would indicate that livefs builds are failing
<evand> indeed, I just saw that
<Riddell> The following packages have unmet dependencies: openoffice.org-l10n-en-gb: Conflicts: openoffice.org-core (>= 2.3.0~src680m224.1) but
<Riddell> and calc has run off
<evand> I thought we were only missing busybox at first
<cjwatson> isn't ooo-l10n still building?
<cjwatson> yes, it is
<cjwatson> we need that
<Riddell> oh, we do indeed
<Riddell> I must have assumed it would be faster than openoffice itself
<cjwatson> openoffice.org-l10n blocks on openoffice.org
<Riddell> right
<Riddell> well, another couple of hours to go then
<Riddell> although xubuntu shouldn't be affected
<j1mc> Riddell: so xubuntu should be ok to test now?
<Riddell> j1mc: once its built
<Riddell> j1mc: xubuntu CDs up
<Riddell> bdmurray: ^^
<j1mc> Thanks!!
<ipx> Whats the difference between coding for linux and windows? Im having a class with c++ and i only use linux, how should i solve it? use vmware?
<ScottK> ipx: ask nixternal.  He's dealing with that same problem.
<ipx> nixternal: u got any clue?
<davmor2> Riddell: Kubuntu dying :( on current image on my compaq laptop
<nixternal> ipx: I use Linux for my C++, Java, and whatever other courses
<ipx> nixternal: and how do you solve it?
<ipx> cuz if you code it for windows (that the teacher wants it in) you cant see how it works in linux?
<nixternal> most of the code in the school are platform independent...there are a few things that won't work in Linux that work with Microsoft, but googling usually helped me out
<nixternal> well if you guys are doing C++ GUI, you probably will need to code in Windows
<nixternal> if you are just doing simple command line programs using the STL, then yo can get away with Linux quite easily
<Riddell> davmor2: desktop or alternate?
<ipx> nixternal: aww thanks that helped me alot
<nixternal> ipx: are you doing gui c++ work?
<ipx> we're only programming in procedure, so its only a terminal
<ipx> no :)
<nixternal> ipx: then Linux all the way!
<davmor2> desktop is there a way to track down the problem with any easy?
<ipx> Now I see how it works. thanks! :D
<nixternal> 99% of the time, my code compiled just fine in Visual Studio
<nixternal> you will learn strcopy and what not are a little different in Linux
<ipx> What development tool do you suggest? KDevelop?
<Riddell> ipx: questions for #kubuntu and #ubuntu, and it all depends on what you want to do
<nixternal> I just used emacs...but truthfully, vi, emacs, or if you are using KDE, then Kate all the way for this course
<ipx> thanks
<nixternal> no prob
<ipx> Checking out emacs right now :)
<davmor2> Riddell: Oh and check cd still tried to boot it
<Riddell> davmor2: ok, I'll be making new images in a few hours which should fix the install problem
<bdmurray> Riddell: I don't seem to have the proper access to the isotesting site anymore
<davmor2> Riddell: Comes up with Fatal server error:  Caught signal 11.  Server aborting         when typing startx if that helps.
<bdmurray> stgraber: ping
<stgraber> bdmurray: pong
<bdmurray> stgraber: heno gave me admin rights to iso.qa.stgraber.org but I think I lost them.  I don't see a link to add the xubuntu images
<stgraber> bdmurray: indeed, you don't seem to have any admin right, wait a sec
<stgraber> bdmurray: should be good now, just refresh
<pygi> mdke, managed to do anything?
<bdmurray> stgraber: great, thanks
<bdmurray> Riddell: the xubuntu gutsy-alternate-i386 looks oversized
<Riddell> huh?
<Riddell> so it is
<Riddell> j1mc: able to do anything about that?
<Riddell> or might the xubuntu-desktop in unaccepted help?
<Goliath23> hi
<j1mc> Riddell: mr_pouit or jani monoses should be able to help
<j1mc> hopefully?  :)
<Riddell> or we can just not release the alternate CD for this tribe
<Riddell> mr_pouit: got a preference?
<Riddell> j1mc: is jani on irc?
<j1mc> Riddell: xubuntu alternate install is probably installed as much or more than the live cd.
<j1mc> jani isn't on IRC, no.
<Goliath23> I just realised, that my "man 2 mmap" manpage is dated back to 2.6.9 kernel times (2004-12-08) .. and i'm using an up-to-date feisty. any idea why the old manpages are in there? (mmap() obviously changed since then in a significant detail (it can return void(0) as a valid pointer) caused me hours of confusion today..
<mjg59> That's the latest version of the manpage?
<Goliath23> I guess thats in "manpages-dev". shouldn't they be up-to date?
<mjg59> As far as I know, it's always been wrong in that respect
<Goliath23> mjg59: so it's normal, that the old manpages are installed?
<mjg59> It's not an old manpage. It's the latest version of the manpage.
<mjg59> The manpages are not generated from the kernel.
<Goliath23> mjg59: but there is certanly a more current manpage around (someone in another channel pointed me to it) shouldn't it be in that package then? this one is 3 years old
<Riddell> j1mc: I'll let through the new meta package and we can try with that
<j1mc> Riddell: thanks, I'm contactig Jani and Lionel (mr_pouit) to let them know about it.
<Goliath23> mjg59: manpages in ubuntu are version 2.39-1, in gentoo they are version 2.63 the other guy says.
<mjg59> Goliath23: They're 2.62 in gutsy
<mjg59> 2.39 dates from late 2006
<Goliath23> who releases that versions?
<mjg59> ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/linux-local/manpages/
<cjwatson> we inherit manpages directly from what's packaged by Debian
<cjwatson> (like many of our packages)
<mjg59> It's possible that the other guy is looking at the posix manpages. We don't distribute them for copyright reasons.
<Goliath23> kk
<kylem> do we readd the posix manpages?
<kylem> right.
<cjwatson> kylem: they're in manpages-posix
<cjwatson> (multiverse)
<kylem> oh. that plae.
<kylem> place
<kylem> ;-)
<cjwatson> current mmap(2) is dated 2006-12-04
<cjwatson> Goliath23: you've always been supposed to check the return of mmap() against MAP_FAILED, FWIW
<cjwatson> not any other value ...
<cjwatson> how did you get mmap() to return (void*)0?
<mjg59> cjwatson: Map with MEM_FIXED and a start address of 0
<Goliath23> the code is on my office pc, I can't give you the code right now.
<mjg59> cjwatson: Which is kind of handy for vm86 stuff
<Goliath23> my program also had a bug because it was checking against != NULL
<Goliath23> (which is because the functions abstract system specific SHMEM creation and on windows you do it like that.)
<wolfe> ARGGGGGGGG
<Goliath23> the outdated manpage stating that mmap() will never return 0 didn't make it easier to find the error :)
<wolfe> python-fam needs to be patched to work against libfam-dev whatever is in the version right now
<Goliath23> but you're right of course, you have to check against MAP_FAILED..
<cjwatson> mjg59: wow, I'm amazed that doesn't segfault
<mjg59> cjwatson: Having pages allocated at address 0 is valid enough
<cjwatson> I am alternatively surprised that more weirdos don't do that as a crackheaded attempt at avoiding segfaults ;-)
<mjg59> cjwatson: On Vax, reading 0 gives you 0
<Goliath23> at least I know how to fix it tomorrow morning..
<cjwatson> I know
<mjg59> Lots of code was very broken in the 80s
<elmo> things haven't changed
<kylem> tbqh, whilst having things mapped at 0 is valid, it makes life pretty difficult
<mr_pouit> Riddell: how much is the xubuntu-iso oversized?
<mr_pouit> Riddell: if the new xubuntu-meta upload doesn't help, here is also a possible fix: evince-gtk is currently broken and push libgnome{2,ui} with it. A possible fix is attached to Bug #121871... maybe it'll be enough?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121871 in evince "[gutsy]  evince-gtk depends on libgnome" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121871
<benkong2> I know this is not for support but... Who handles the screen resolution package in ubuntu? I want to better understand why my resolution choices never change.
<mdke> pygi: no, I found that it needs dependencies and gave up :)
<bdmurray> benkong2: Do you mean what person or what package?
<bdmurray> bryce: I'm booting the Kubuntu daily build and got an Xorg general protection
<bryce> doh
<bryce> "general protection"??
* calc back
<bryce> would you mind also turning on failsafe (sudo /etc/gdm/failsafeInstall) and see what happens?  I've not yet tested it with Kubuntu with a real failure situation
<bdmurray> bryce: error message in dmesg and the last line in /var/log/Xorg.0.log is "Backtrace:"
<calc> Riddell: yea ooo-l10n should be done in the next hour or two
<bryce> hrm, just "Backtrace:"?  not too informative
<bryce> did you also test the Tribe-4 Kubuntu cd on that same hardware?  Is it a new error?
<bryce> also, does the Ubuntu daily have the same issue or does it boot ok?
<bdmurray> bryce: Yes. Just Ubuntu Tribe4. Yes. Will download.
<evand> wow, the new xubuntu artwork looks amazing
<pygi> evand, any shots?
<bdmurray> bryce: what do you mean by the failsafe install?
<bryce> bdmurray: if you run that script it flips on Bulletproof-X
<bdmurray> bryce: so boot normally and then run that?
<bryce> if you've been able to install ubuntu, but X isn't working, run that and reboot or restart gdm.
<bryce> s/ubuntu/kubuntu/
<benkong2> bdmurray; sorry I mean the person and the package if possible
<bryce> if it's failing on the live cd or during installation though, this won't help
<bdmurray> bryce: right it is failing on the Live CD
<bryce> ok nevermind then
<bdmurray> benkong2: the package would Xorg
<bdmurray> or groups of packages rather
<bdmurray> bryce: What should I include in the bug report then?
<bryce> the usual... xorg.conf, Xorg.0.log, lspci -nnvv
<evand> pygi: http://evalicious.com/xubuntu.png - not sure how new the artwork is, it's been since early in the cycle that I used xubuntu
<pygi> evand, thanks
<benkong2> bdmurray; my problem is that in Ubuntu the Screen Resolution selection program offers no other choices no matter how I change xorg.conf
<bdmurray> benkong2: hrm, there is a lot of information we would need to help you out
<calc> anyone know why tracker is installed?
<calc> it seems to be causing my system to go into 100% iowait
<Riddell> it's default now in ubuntu
<calc> Riddell: how often does it eat all cpu?
<wolfe> what is tracker?
<calc>  Tracker is an advanced framework for first class objects with associated
<calc>  metadata and tags. It provides a one stop solution for all metadata, tags,
<calc>  shared object databases, search tools and indexing.
<Riddell> like strigi or beagle
<calc> i'm guessing its whats eating all my cpu anyway
<pygi> and is not so fun xD
<Riddell> calc: dunno, I've never used it
<wolfe> is it default with server too?
<wolfe> and can it be turned off easily?
<bdmurray> calc: you have 2 cpus don't you?
<calc> bdmurray: yea still makes the system barely responsive
<bdmurray> heh
<wolfe> no offense, but I think there needs to be no tracker enabled by default
<calc> looks like it finally finished
* pygi disabled it :)
<wolfe> pygi: how?
<calc> cool 100% idle now i can do stuff again, heh
<wolfe> well, I can see the majority of power users disabling it
<evand> xubuntu installed fine \o/
<pygi> wolfe, preferences, indexing preferences
<wolfe> pygi: aha, ok.
<ajmitch> calc: just purge it :)
<calc> ajmitch: i wanted to make sure it is expected behavior so it doesn't kill our users when they install 7.10 in a couple months ;)
<pygi> ajmitch, not smart, then he purges ubuntu-standard or ubuntu-desktop or whatever
<ajmitch> pygi: rubbish, it's a recommends, not depends
<davmor2> Riddell:  The Intel X driver is still screwing up the display in xubuntu desktop, which means it almost certainly will with ubuntu and kubuntu too.
<calc> pygi: i could just equivs replace it or something
<calc> ajmitch: doesn't recommends get auto-installed now, or will be soon if we merge up with debian?
<calc> ajmitch: debian now installs recommends automatically
<pygi> calc, they do get autoinstalled
<pygi> from some time ago
<ajmitch> calc: yes, which is why you got trakcer installed & can remove it safely
<calc> ajmitch: ah ok :)
<ajmitch> hopefully apt will remember that I didn't want tracker on the next ubuntu-desktop update :)
<pygi> ajmitch, calc : sudo aptitude remove tracker
<pygi> result:
<pygi> Remove the following packages:
<pygi> libdeskbar-tracker
<pygi> tracker-search-tool
<pygi> tracker-utils
<pygi> ubuntu-desktop
<calc> oh is that what puts up the little orange deskbar applet?
<pygi> ajmitch, ^_^
<Nafallo> calc: no, that's deskbar-applet :-)
<ajmitch> pygi: yes, that's because aptitude wants to preserve recommends
<ajmitch> pygi: it doesn't mean that you can't just remove it
<pygi> heh
<LaserJock> pffft, who uses aptitude ;-)
<ajmitch> dselect ftw?
<LaserJock> dpkg+wget?
<Nafallo> LaserJock: I do on servers :-)
<Nafallo> ipkg on some routers ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you don't just edit the status & various other files by hand?
<calc> Nafallo: so is there some sort of applet to use the tracker data?
<LaserJock> who needs dependency resolution? It works fine for .rpms
<Nafallo> calc: deskbar-applet has a plugin I've removed I think :-)
<calc> Nafallo: heh
<ajmitch> nice, icedtea is available for amd64
<ajmitch> thanks doko :)
<calc> oh i see it under accessories
<Nafallo> icedtea?
<doko> ajmitch: test it
<Nafallo> calc: it's own tool, nautilus and deskbar-applet can use it I think.
<doko> calc: you may want to give OOo a try with icedtea
<ajmitch> doko: I will, I was just looking to see what was available
<calc> doko: ok
<calc> doko: is that packaged yet?
<doko> calc: see ubuntu-devel-discuss
<calc> doko: ah i see the message :)
<calc> doko: is icedtea being packaged for debian as well?
<bhale> ajmitch: whats that
<doko> calc: you don't have to care about it ;-)
<calc> doko: well for merge reasons it would be good ;)
<Kopfgeldjaeger>  g n8
<bdmurray> bryce: bug 134153 has been submitted
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134153 in xorg "[gutsy]  xorg failed to start on an Intel 945 using Kubuntu desktop CD daily build 20070822.1" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134153
<bryce> bdmurray: thx
<bdmurray> let me know if you need anything else - I also ran xresprobe if that is useful
<kylem> bdmurray, ack
<kylem> bdmurray, fix forthcoming for it
<kylem> bdmurray, discover-data bug.
<ajmitch> bhale: icedtea is a temporary fork of sun's openjdk
<bryce> kylem, can you give me any pointers on how to know when a given bug is discover-data?
<kylem> well, it chose vesa instead of i810 or intel.
<kylem> probably also a vesa bug since it didn't start, but feh.
<bryce> gotcha
<kylem> i really hoped we had time to replace that for gutsy but it's too late now.
<bryce> follow up question - what's involved in fixing these kinds of bugs?  Is it usually just updating pci id tables, or more involved?
<kylem> i think X driver pick-age is the only place discover is used these days.
<mjg59> Well, vesa has got significantly worse recently
<bryce> yeah
<kylem> bryce, yes, discover-data has a big pci id database.
<kylem> mjg59, vbios itym :P
<kylem> vesa hasn't really change dmuch
#ubuntu-devel 2007-08-23
<mjg59> kylem: Various people have made it sound like vesa worked for them in 7.1, but not in 7.2
<kylem> hem.
<bdmurray> kylem: so you'll take the bug then?
<kylem> bdmurray, yeah, it's a dupe
<kylem> bdmurray, elmo filed the same one earlier this week
<bdmurray> hrm
<bdmurray> I feel like we could use a better way of tracking daily build bugs then
<bryce> I'm filing the 'vesa fails to start' portion of the bug upstream with Xorg.  Alex says he can reproduce it on his ati.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: did you start to do some iso testing ?
<ajmitch> doko: Setting up icedtea-java7-plugin (7~b18-1.2+20070822-0ubuntu1) ...
<ajmitch> update-alternatives: unable to make /usr/lib/iceape/plugins/libjavaplugin.so.dpkg-tmp a symlink to /etc/alternatives/iceape-javaplugin.so: No such file or directory
<doko> ajmitch: thanks, create the dir manually as a workaround. and I didn't check if the plugin works at all
<ajmitch> same thing with /usr/lib/xulrunner/plugins & /usr/lib/midbrowser/plugins - I'll test it out on i386 for now
<Riddell> I wonder if ooo-l10n will compile in less than 10 hours
<pygi> Riddell, :D
<mathiaz> Riddell: do you plan to rebuild the ubuntu-server iso before tomorrow ?
<doko> Riddell: its in the final steps
<Riddell> mathiaz: hopefully
<Riddell> mathiaz: infact I could do that now couldn't I?
<mathiaz> Riddell: well. I'd like to have some basic test done.
<Riddell> it doesn't need openoffice, at least I hope it doesn't :)
<mathiaz> Riddell: last tribe, we tested the ubuntu-server iso before it was released.
<mathiaz> Riddell: no. oo is not needed.
<angasule> are there plans to develop a pppoe GUI tool? every broadband ISP in my country uses pppoe
<mathiaz> Riddell: do you know when you wanna do the release tomorrow ?
<pygi> angasule, not really :-/
<Riddell> mathiaz: late
<Riddell> assuming nothing breaks
<angasule> pygi: thanks, any particular reason why?
<doko> Riddell: Built successfully
<doko> Purging chroot-autobuild/build/buildd/openoffice.org-l10n-2.3.0~oog680m1
<mathiaz> Riddell: late - for which TZ ?
<pygi> angasule, well, mostly due to lack of people/ busyness on other things/etc/etc
<Riddell> mathiaz: all of them :)
<Riddell> mathiaz: since we have no ISOs yet, it's not going to be early
<mathiaz> Riddell: well there is the daily ubuntu-server iso.
<mathiaz> Riddell: from 20070822
<angasule> pygi: :( I'm surprised that neither kubuntu nor ubuntu have one, and pppoeconf is fugly
<pygi> angasule, agreed
<Riddell> ones from this morning won't have linux on them
<Riddell> doko: phew
<ion_> PPPoE for the lose.
<angasule> ion_: I don't use it, but most people can't turn their adsl modems into routers :P
<Riddell> mathiaz: here you go http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/20070823/
<mathiaz> Riddell: ok. so we could starting these isos.
<mathiaz> Riddell: if nothing breaks, they will be the one released ?
<Riddell> mathiaz: yes
<mathiaz> dendrobates: are you up for some iso testing ?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/20070823/
<mathiaz> dendrobates: could you take care of x86_64. I'll do the i386.
<mathiaz> Riddell: did you add the ubuntu-server images to the iso testing tracker ?
<bdmurray> mathiaz: I can do that
<mathiaz> bdmurray: hum.. Actually, I can do it too...
<bdmurray> mathiaz: okay, I already did
<mathiaz> bdmurray: just noticed. Thanks.
<Riddell> mathiaz: no, I don't know if I can do that
<mathiaz> Riddell: bdmurray did it. And I think I can do it too.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: are you still around?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: I'll test the amd64 iso's this evening.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: yop.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: ok. I'm doing the i386 now.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: It'll take me a little while.  Need to put the babies to bed first.
<doko_> calc: openoffice.org-l10n-common is empty :-(
<calc> doko_: er what?
<calc> doko_: i merged all of the stuff from 2.2.1-5, /me wonders how it could possibly be empty
<calc> it doesn't even have the copyright file that would automatically get copied into it
* calc will have to look into that very closely to see how it managed to get deleted (i am assuming it got deleted anyway)
<calc> doko_: its more than just that all of the common docdirs are missing stuff that should be there, i'm not sure how that happened, but i will get it fixed for the next upload
<Riddell> kubuntu desktop doesn't seem to start X for me, although the alternate was fine
<Riddell> building the rest of the CDs anyway and going to bed
<bryce> Riddell: yeah
<bryce> Riddell: bdmurray reported that earlier
<bryce> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/discover-data/+bug/133824
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133824 in discover-data "Intel chipset on HP NC6320 (PCI 8086:27a2) not recognised" [High,Triaged] 
<calc> i bought a video camera, whee :)
<xhaker> calc, as in HD with hard drive?
<mathiaz> infinity: I'm testing the latest ubuntu-server iso. I don't see the openssh task in tasksel.
<mathiaz> infinity: the isos were created after the seeds where modified by kees.
<Rexbron> hey any Ubiquity dev/guru's around?
<LaserJock> probably not at this time of day
<Rexbron> bug 134178
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134178 in ubiquity "[gutsy]  ubiquity crashes with InstallStepError: LanguageApply failed with error 2" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134178
<LongPointyStick> way cool.  someone whinging about the update maintainer spec!
<LongPointyStick> from debian
<LongPointyStick> how they're no longer the maintainer.
<StevenK> Then they ask for an exception. This is all documented.
<LongPointyStick> yes, i thought ti should all be
<ajmitch> poor people
<LaserJock> can we make an exception?
<StevenK> Of course, all they need to do is ask.
<LaserJock> but lintian/dpkg-buildpackage/builddd won't complain?
<StevenK> It was a sync, not a merge.
<LongPointyStick> and then a rebuild, whihc would have got the maintainer change
<StevenK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/tmw/0.0.23-2
<StevenK> Rebuild where?
<LongPointyStick> there was one listed in the changelog,  i thought
<LongPointyStick> tmw (0.0.23-1build1) gutsy; urgency=low
<LongPointyStick>   * Rebuild for the libcurl transition mess.
<LongPointyStick>  -- Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>  Thu,  5 Jul 2007 00:15:17 +1000
<StevenK> Ah. Those were rebuild only uploads that didn't change control
<LongPointyStick> unless we just resynced, and aptitude's changelogs arent up to date
<StevenK> I think he is talking about the Maintainer listed in the binary package, not the source package.
<LongPointyStick> probably
<StevenK> Which is pkgbinarymangler, not me.
<fabbione> morning
<LongPointyStick> good morning, fabbione!
<fabbione> hey hey
<calc> i did a icedtea openoffice.org build and it actually finished
<calc> now i have to see if it runs
<calc> looks like it works good
<fabbione> who is in charge nowadays for UVF exceptions+
<StevenK> Main, or Universe?
<fabbione> main
<StevenK> -release, I think
<fabbione> LongPointyStick: does that include you?
<StevenK> She's not there.
<mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update. Estimated downtime is approx 60mins.
<pitti> Good morning
<sbalneav> Morning.
<sbalneav> bazaar.launchpad having problems?
<sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/src/bzr/scotts-gutsy/client/ldmgtkgreet/src$ bzr push
<sbalneav> Using saved location: sftp://sbalneav@bazaar.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/ltsp/scotts-gutsy/
<sbalneav> ssh: connect to host bazaar.launchpad.net port 22: Connection refused
<sbalneav> bzr: ERROR: Unable to connect to SSH host bazaar.launchpad.net; EOF during negotiation
<pitti> yay LP is offline
<sbalneav> ok, just so long as it isn't me. :)
<sbalneav> <bartsimpson>I didn't do it</bartsimpson>
<sbalneav> oh, duh
<fabbione> <mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update. Estimated downtime is approx 60mins.
<sbalneav> notice was right above
<fabbione> pitti: who is in charge for main UVF?
* sbalneav dopeslaps self
<pitti> fabbione: Riddell
<sbalneav> Time for bed.  Night all.
<fabbione> pitti: ok thanks
<pitti> fabbione: but I doubt that you can squeeze anything on the Tribe CDs at that point
<fabbione> pitti: nope.. i don't need anything on CD at all
<fabbione> pitti: it can queue up for after Tribe
<pitti> fabbione: ah, cool; then you can just upload
<pitti> wow, the i386 live grew 11 MB between 23 and 23.1
<StevenK> Morning pitti
<LaserJock> pitti: are uploads to NEW affected by LP being down?
<pitti> nothing will work while LP is down, I guess
<pitti> oh, bleh, I bet the new OOo version with java enabled again exploded
<fabbione> there.. not bad
<Amaranth> LaserJock: how can you upload if launchpad is down? :)
<fabbione> 400KB less of orig tar gz after CVS cleanup
<LaserJock> Amaranth: dput knows nothing of LP ;-)
<LaserJock> ugg, Linux apps aren't made for 640x480
<pitti> calc: still here?
<nixternal> was there by chance a notification that the auth db for the wiki was going down?
<StevenK> [15:11]  < fabbione> <mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update. Estimated downtime is approx 60mins.
<nixternal> holy smokes
<LaserJock> nixternal: we're getting 1.1.8
<nixternal> ya, well you could have waited until I committed my release notes...you click save when it is down, you lose it all :(
<nixternal> but hey, we are getting 1.1.8!!!
<nixternal> :)
<LaserJock> hmm, you sure you lost it all?
<nixternal> yup
<LaserJock> you can back it out?
<nixternal> you go back and you get the auth error
<LaserJock> *can't
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> bummer
<nixternal> ya, my fault for not finding time previously really
<nixternal> I should have learned from the last 2 releases....they always pull the plug right when I hit save changes :)
<LaserJock> that's why you edit locally and paste it in when you want to save it
<pitti> ooh, grrrr
<nixternal> NO! :)
<nixternal> muhahahahaha, I got it
<nixternal> I GOT IT!!!
<pitti> StevenK: your 15:11 -> was that 16 minutes ago or 1:16?
* pitti hugs nixternal 
* nixternal hugs back and dances around
<nixternal> I somehow copied it all before I went to commit
<nixternal> whew
<LaserJock> pitti: it was about 30 min or so ago
<pitti> eek, then it'll take a while before I can build new CDs
<LaserJock> it should be down for another 30 min
<pitti> Riddell: FYI, I changed seeds to throw out langpacks to account for the OO.o explosion; once LP is back, I'll commit and crank new live Ubuntu images
<nixternal> wiki is back up and I was able to save :D
<pitti> ah, bzr push works again
<LaserJock> wahoo, PPAs are here
<nixternal> woohoo!
<nixternal> can we delete from our PPAs yet?
<LaserJock> nixternal: I'm not positive, but I thought so
<nixternal> ya, if it isn't here yet, it will be here shortly
<calc> pitti: hi
<calc> pitti: whats up
<pitti> calc: the latest OO.o grew by 11 MB :/ I just wondered if there is anything we can drop from the CD which can be installed later or so?
<pitti> calc: for now I threw out the remaining langpacks, but (1) this isn't a good solution, and (2) we can only do this until there are none left (which is pretty much the case now)
<calc> pitti: is there an easy way for me to see which packages are installed on the cd version?
* pitti -> back in 15 mins
<pitti> calc: yes, look at the .manifest files on cdimage.u.c.
<calc> ok
<pitti> calc: manifest for lives, .list for alternates
<fabbione> feh....
<fabbione> gutsy doesn't mount nfs stuff at boot anymore
<calc> hmm the get 11MB back i dunno
<calc> that's 11MB of compressed files right?
<calc> most packages in ooo are small other than -core
<fabbione> and there is a really annoying bug in /lib/init/mount-functions.sh
<calc> if it is 11MB compressed anyway
<calc> common 37MB, core 12MB, writer 7MB, calc 5MB, etc
<calc> that is descending package size
<calc> hmm actually those are sizes from the icedtea build but are probably close for the one in the archive
<calc> pitti: building with the libraries in main after they are included might help some, not sure how much though
<calc> i have one more MIR to write then once they get moved I can build using them
* calc going to bed
<pitti> calc: yes, 11 MB livefs space (compressed)
<pitti> calc: the main addition between 23 and 23.1 images was the java-common package, the rest was just general growth
<crimsun> Treenaks: well, there's something more insidious for 2.6.22-10.30: # CONFIG_SND_HDA_INTEL is not set .  I doubt you'll get /any/ audio regardless.  Still present in current git; see http://preview.tinyurl.com/2s38ol
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu
<highvoltage> Guten Morgen dholbach
<highvoltage> aaah, my irssi bar was full and it vut off "vel", so I thought I somehow landed in "ubuntu-de" ;)
<dholbach> heya highvoltage
<mdke> hiya dholbach
<dholbach> hey mdke
<mdke> dholbach: I tried installing bzr-builddeb yesterday, but it was uninstallable on feisty with bzr 0.90 and anyway I suspect gnome-user-docs needs to be built under gutsy... I'll wait until I upgrade :)
<dholbach> mdke: you can create a chroot
<dholbach> sudo mkdir /chroots; sudo debootstrap gutsy /chroots/gutsy; sudo chroot /chroots/gutsy
<dholbach> then work inside that chroot
<dholbach> so you just can get the minimal build environment for gnome-user-docs + bzr stuff in there and don't need to make your working system more "interesting" :)
<mdke> dholbach: that would be really cool, it would save me plenty of grief. Good idea :)
<dholbach> ok cool
<dholbach> the debootstrap just takes a bit
<dholbach> but that's about it
<mdke> dholbach: where do I get the gutsy from for the debootstrap; it doesn't seem to have it automatically
<bryce> heya dholbach, wb :-)
<dholbach> hey bryce :)
<dholbach> mdke: ahhh ok
<mdke> dholbach: don't worry
<dholbach> mdke: it should be in feisty-backports
<mdke> I'm checking the packaging guide, seems to explain
<superm1> if not, you can always grab it from here too: http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/admin/debootstrap
* mdke nods
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap/1.0.1~feisty1
<mdke> thanks
<superm1> bryce, so what did you think regarding doing a MIR for xserver-xorg-video-openchrome and making it default over the unichrome variant?
<superm1> after looking over that thread that was posted in -motu
<bryce> I'd definitely support a MIR for it
<ogra> eeek, what made my CDs explode ?
<bryce> I'm still iffy on making it default over -via...  in part because I'm currently clueless on what it'd take to make it the default, but also because I'd want to see wider discussion on it first
<bryce> heya ogra
<superm1> of course
<superm1> i anticipate the MIR will stir up the discussion
<bryce> I'd love to get ogra's feedback on it
<superm1> as its primary purpose to go to main would be to replace -via
<bryce> also kylem's
<ogra> superm1, you packaged it ?
<tepsipakki> via/openchrome/unichrome is a mess
<superm1> yes
<bryce> tepsipakki: *nod*
* ogra hugs superm1
<tepsipakki> if someone could wrap up which one supports most chipsets..
<superm1> ogra, :)
<tepsipakki> maybe it's openchrome..
<ogra> i guess thats via ....
<tepsipakki> really?
<tepsipakki> ok, I really don't know anything about them ;)
<ogra> well, openchrome and unicrome are pretty focused on certain models i really guess the via one supports more
<tepsipakki> I do have one via box under my maintenance though..
<ogra> i have three ... two use the via driver fine ...
<superm1> http://wiki.openchrome.org/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=HardwareCaveats
<bryce> ok why don't we do this -
<bryce> first, let's get openchrome in main
<bryce> second, since it's already after FF, and since openchrome is (or will) *just* now be in main, hold off on making it the default for Gutsy
<bryce> but start gathering user feedback on it, and see how it does
<tepsipakki> it could be the default for some chips that via doesn't support (are there any?)
<bryce> and if there doesn't seem to be any serious problems, consider switching it for Gutsy+1
<superm1> it would really be great if there was a way to patch it to allow it to be side by side with unichrome
<tepsipakki> they both install as via_drv.so?
<tepsipakki> (as does unichrome)
<fabbione> it should be enough to just rename the file
<fabbione> iirc X isn't too picky about that
<tepsipakki> fabbione: IIRC that doesn't work :/
<superm1> all three of them currently conflict with one another since they each provide via_drv.so
<fabbione> superm1: try to just extract the .so and rename it
<fabbione> change xorg.conf and see which one is loaded
<fabbione> tepsipakki: i am pretty sure I used to do that trick at some point
<fabbione> worst case there is a data struct in the driver that needs a one liner
<tepsipakki> fabbione: yeah, could be
<tepsipakki> I don't understand why they all want to be via_drv.so..
<bryce> sounds like a few drivers that wish to be merged ;-)
<tepsipakki> if only upstreams could work together
<superm1> from what i read in that thread, they said it was feasible to merge one way but not the other.  that baffles my mind, especially to the point of why that merge hasn't occurred yet
<tepsipakki> superm1: which thread?
<superm1> tepsipakki, http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2005-December/011757.html
<Amaranth> they all hate each other and think they know the 'right' way to do it :)
<superm1> that thread is an interesting read.
<tepsipakki> superm1: ok, reading..
<tepsipakki> superm1: thanks
<superm1> i'm headed to bed though.  night guys
<bryce> night superm1!
<fabbione> doko_: did you noticed that gutsy/firefox and java are not playing well today?
<fabbione> asac: ^^
<doko_> hmm, didn't change anything
<asac> fabbione: no ... haven't received any serious report after the install location was fixed (some time ago)
<fabbione> i just upgrade to latest gutsy today
<fabbione> anything I open that has java scripts will spin 100% CPU with FF...
<fabbione> FF stays unresponsive
<asac> java scripts? or java applets?
<fabbione> asac: no idea.. it's one of those buttons you press to start a download...
<asac> fabbione: you have a link?
<fabbione> asac: yes
<asac> wait a second i have to get to my gutsy box :)
<asac_the_2nd> fabbione: ok please post :)
<fabbione> asac_the_2nd: i did to asac :)
<asac_the_2nd> fabbione: i don't see it ... any plugins/extensions installed?
<asac_the_2nd> fabbione: try to run in -safe-mode (firefox -safe-mode from cmdline)
<fabbione> asac_the_2nd: yeah i guess i do have plugins installed...
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> trying
<asac_the_2nd> plugins don't get disabled by -safe-mode ... just extensions ...
<fabbione> asac_the_2nd: bingo... so now how do i identify which extension is making troubles?
<asac> fabbione: disable one by one in Tools -> Addons
<fabbione> asac: ok
<fabbione> thanks
<asac> fabbione: let me know which one caused this mess
<fabbione> asac: i have only 2... ubufox and google toolbar..
<fabbione> this is going to be quick :)
<asac> yes google toolbar causes issues
<asac> at least there are reports claiming it
<fabbione> yeah that's it
<fabbione> but it's the very first time i see something like this
<asac> i think there was a workaround ... somewhere
<asac> yes ... its strange ... you sure you ran the latest on feisty before?
<fabbione> well disable -> enable and now doesn't complain anylonger
<fabbione> go figure
<fabbione> thanks
<asac> cool ;) ... aeh magic i mean
<asac> np
<tkamppeter> pitti, ping
<ogra> Riddell, any idea what to do with the oversizedness ?
<Riddell> remove something?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> ubuntu is 8M over  ... edubuntu 6
<Riddell> those spanish lang packs presumably
<ogra> (desktop CD that is)
<davmor2> Riddell: Did the kubuntu cd's get redone I can test them then?
<Amaranth> isn't OOo like 1/6th of the space used up on the CD?
<Amaranth> just wondering
<Riddell> davmor2: daily-live/20070823 is what needs testing, so far X hasn't worked for anyone
<Riddell> Amaranth: yes
<Amaranth> toss that out and put some lang packs in ;)
<davmor2> Riddell: Give it a try as soon as it has finished rsyncing then :)  Also any news on the intel driver getting fixed?
<Riddell> I don't know if it's just the intel driver which is broken
<Amaranth> what's the problem?
<tkamppeter> kagou, hi
<davmor2> Riddell: It I do alt-ctrl-f1 login and type sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf and change "intel" to "i810" the whole inch high bar and titles go back to normal
<Riddell> ok, that's something
<kagou> hi tkamppeter
<ogra> Riddell, i dropped spanish from edubuntu live, afaik that needs a publisher run to take effect for the next livefs build, do you have the power to do that ?
<davmor2> Amaranth: goto http://www.davmor2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Screenshot.png  but kde and xubuntu are far worse for some reason
<ogra> looks like your themeing is freaking out
<Amaranth> oh, yum
<Amaranth> the DPI issue
<Mirv> seb128: is someone taking care that xdg-user-dirs translations are going to be correctly used for folders and menu entries? it's been over two months since it was brought in, but it doesn't seem to work (bug #123435)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123435 in xdg-user-dirs "xdg-user-dirs translations not used" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123435
<Amaranth> there was a bug filed against compiz for this at one point
<davmor2> Amaranth: Not DPI it fixed at 96
<Amaranth> davmor2: in xorg.conf?
<davmor2> It's mine
<Amaranth> davmor2: ?
<davmor2> Amaranth: where Do I Look for that?
<seb128> Mirv: translate it for your locale on launchpad and the next language pack update will have the translations
<Amaranth> davmor2: the DPI?
<Mirv> seb128: the translations are there and installed, but the folder names aren't updated, automatically nor manually
<Amaranth> davmor2: you have to set the screen's physical size
<Amaranth> davmor2: then it computes the DPI
<Amaranth> GNOME has a fun override to just always use 96 or whatever but not everything listens to it
<seb128> Mirv: no, they only apply to new account, existant configuration are not modified because you are not way to know if those are user choices or not
<seb128> s/are not way/have no way
<davmor2> Amaranth: Yes it's set as far as I know.  I'm just getting the xorg.conf file up.  What exactly am I looking for?
<Amaranth> i have no idea :P
<Amaranth> let me see if i can find the bug report
<tkamppeter> kagou, I have packaged the fixes for bug 127152 and bug 128261 now. So they will appear in Gutsy soon (probably after Tribe 5). Thank you very much for your testing efforts. Without this cooperation I had not been able to fix these problems.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127152 in system-config-printer "Auto-scanned SMB-provided printers cannot be selected" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127152
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128261 in system-config-printer "Wrong URI generated for SMB printer" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128261
<davmor2> Amaranth: According to this there is one resolution 1280x800
<Amaranth> i can't find the bug report
<Amaranth> my google-fu has failed
<Amaranth> it's the driver reporting a broken DPI for some reason
<Amaranth> in Ubuntu you only see it on titlebars because that's the part compiz draws
<Amaranth> in Kubuntu you probably see if everything because i don't think they have a similar override
<Amaranth> err, see it on
<Amaranth> 4am ftl
<Amaranth> mvo might remember what it was
<Amaranth> but i think he is on vacation or something
<Riddell> ogra: yes, I'll do that
<davmor2> Amaranth: so why when you change to "i810" does everything work properly?
<Amaranth> davmor2: <Amaranth> it's the driver reporting a broken DPI for some reason
<Amaranth> from what i can tell the only good thing you get out of using the 'intel' driver is not having to use 915resolution
<Amaranth> heard nothing but complaints about it otherwise
<ogra> Riddell, thanks
<davmor2> Amaranth: is the bug 118745 by any chance?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118745 in libgnome "Font sizes in Gutsy are affected by bad X.org DPI detection" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118745
<Amaranth> davmor2: similar
<Mirv> seb128: does it mean that all feisty -> gutsy upgraders will have English folders in bookmarks etc? do you mean that if eg. a person with an account already has a folder called "Music" in the home folder, it's not wanted that it's automatically converted to the localized version? what about if it could be detected that "now we created folders for this existing account", shouldn't the translations be used for those?
<seb128> Mirv: no, upgrade will have no bookmarks added
<seb128> Mirv: already existing accounts will not be changed
<Mirv> seb128: ok, then I think I just happened to install this version of gutsy before the translations were in. still, xdg-user-dirs-update does not seem to work even manually, or xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update
<kagou> tkamppeter, you'r welcome. You'v made great works on it
<seb128> Mirv: open bugs, I need to look at those before gutsy, not sure about the details right now and I'm busy with something else
<Mirv> user-dris.dirs and .gtk-bookmarks are updated, but with English strings only. .config/user-dirs.locale is fi_FI, though
<Mirv> seb128: yep, there's that bug open I mentioned for xdg-user-dirs package
<Mirv> seb128: thanks for extra information
<tseliot> Amaranth: the "intel" driver has the support for RandR 1.2 (if used with xserver-xorg 1.3)
<seb128> Mirv: you're welcome
<seb128> Mirv: that would be a bug or the current language pack has no translations for it
<Mirv> seb128: seems like a bug, msgunfmt < xdg-user-dirs.mo shows correct translations for the locale.
<seb128> Mirv: patches are welcome then ;)
<seb128> Mirv: sorry but I don't know about it, better to use the bug tracker
<Riddell> tkamppeter: the live CD gives me an error when it tries to start cups "cupsd: error while loading shared libraries /lib/libc.so.6: cannot apply additional memory protection after relocation, operation not permitted"
<Riddell> which might be due to apparmour or something for all I know
<azeem> w30
<azeem> sorr
<azeem> y
<tkamppeter> Riddell, I think this is really caused by AppArmor, best is to ask pitti to fix this. If pitti is not reachable any more before release of Tribe 5 we must switch CUPS' AppArmor protection from enforce to complain until pitti is back frm vacation.
<Riddell> pitti is away this morning, but will be back at some point
<Riddell> keescook: got a view on that?
<tkamppeter> Riddell, to go to complain temporarily do "aa-complain cupsd" and try to start CUPS again.
<iwj> Riddell: Is there any way we can help out ?  It all seems to be a bit of a struggle ...
<Riddell> iwj: should be fine to test ubuntu alternate CDs
<Riddell> also kubuntu, xubuntu and ubuntu-server
<Riddell> edubuntu alternate too
<iwj> OK, I'll start on the ubuntu alternate.
<iwj> 20070823 I assume.
<Riddell> yes
<tepsipakki> is gutsy using exim again instead of postfix?
<davmor2> Riddell: What about the lives or are there problems there still?
<Riddell> davmor2: ubuntu and edubuntu are oversized
<Riddell> tepsipakki: we don't have a mail server by default
<tepsipakki> Riddell: but as the mail-agent?
<davmor2> Riddell: So K/X/ubuntu desktop should be okay to test then ?
<Riddell> davmor2: not ubuntu but kubuntu and xubuntu yes
<Riddell> tepsipakki: kmail, evolution, dunno what xubuntu uses
<tepsipakki> Riddell: I meant mail-transport-agent, but nevermind :)
<davmor2> Riddell: Thunderbird if memory serves
<dholbach> Tonio_: is somebody working on the libkbluetooth0 overwrite problem already?
<Riddell> tepsipakki: as I said, we don't have one by default
<tepsipakki> Riddell: yep, seems to be so
<geser> isn't there a rule to have only one app of each sort in main?
<Riddell> geser: no
<Riddell> geser: on the CD that's a guiding principle though
<davmor2> Riddell: Just tried Kubuntu desktop and switching "intel" to "i810" means it's usable now :)  so it is definitely an issue with the intel driver.  Everything else so far seems okay
<Riddell> davmor2: do you know if that issue has a bug number?
<cjwatson> geser: we do try not to gratuitously support multiple implementations of the same basic thing, but in many cases it's not reasonable to treat that as a hard rule; GNOME and KDE are an obvious example :-)
<cjwatson> (and XFCE come to that)
<davmor2> Riddell: yes its has I reported it last set of installs
<davmor2> Riddell: Can it be added to the documentation for the release as a known bug with the work around?
<geser> cjwatson: ok, based on this small MTA discussion above I've looked up in which component exim4 and postfix are (both are in main) and wondered myself if I remembered the rule right (if it ever existed)
<Riddell> davmor2: yes, it should be
<Riddell> bryce: any comment on bug 134153?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134153 in xorg "[gutsy]  xorg failed to start on an Intel 945 using Kubuntu desktop CD daily build 20070822.1 (dup-of: 133824)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134153
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133824 in discover-data "Intel chipset on HP NC6320 (PCI 8086:27a2) not recognised" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133824
<davmor2> Riddell: It's not just kubuntu it also effects ubuntu and xubuntu
<Riddell> assigned to kylem?
<davmor2> Riddell: I writing up the work around in bug 118745
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118745 in libgnome "Font sizes in Gutsy are affected by bad X.org DPI detection" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118745
<Riddell> install kde-guidance would be a workaround
<davmor2> Riddell: Added work around now to 118745
<ogra> who is building ubuntu desktop every hour without changes ?
<pitti> ogra: the next rebuild should actually fix the CD size
<ogra> do we have a cronjob running on lithium or something ?
<pitti> there was some confusion about publisher etc.
<ogra> pitti, ah, k ... looked a bit strange
<ogra> how the heck do i chane the package a bug is assigned to with the new UI ???
<ogra> bryce, bug 133471, should i assign it to vesa or via ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133471 in edubuntu-meta "failed load xorg on edubuntu7.04" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133471
<dholbach> pitti: I dropped tango-icon-theme{,-common} - that'd save space too
<pitti> dholbach: cool
<dholbach> it'd just need a ubuntu-meta upload
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ apt-cache show tango-icon-theme{,-common} | grep Size
<dholbach> Installed-Size: 10596
<dholbach> Size: 1710388
<dholbach> Installed-Size: 1132
<dholbach> Size: 162490
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$
<pitti> dholbach: too late, I think
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> next time then
<pitti> yeah, that would be good
<dholbach> I'll still upload it, I think
* pitti hugs dholbach 
* dholbach hugs pitti back
<tepsipakki> guys, I have a new xserver (only a merge from debian) and ati-driver (6.7.191, which has randr-1.2 and tv-out) ready for testing
<tepsipakki> can be found here: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/dpkg/
<tepsipakki> binaries built for x86
<tepsipakki> ogra: that seems like being the same issue that was mentioned on u-d-d this morning
<tepsipakki> so the xorg-server merge should fix that
<ogra> tepsipakki, well, i just makred it invalid and assigned it to -vesa ... works well, its just more work than just changing the package name
<tepsipakki> ogra: that's cool
<heno> NEW IMAGES UP FOR TESTING https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/All
* ogra applauds pitti for matching 700M on the point
<ogra> could i get new -desktop images too ?
<pitti> heh
<pitti> "breathing space? what's that?"
<ogra> heh
<Nafallo> fabbione: ping
<tepsipakki> who are allowed to post on the dev link forum?
<pitti> hey mhb
<mhb> hi pitti
<pitti> mhb: do you have some time to look for the r-m-kde specific crashes (in LP bugs)?
<mhb> pitti: sure, that's why I'm here
<pitti> oh, awesome :)
<Riddell> ogra: your new desktops are on the way
<wolfe> pitti: :( do I need to send another patch or will someone fix http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8951862/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-lpia.python-fam_1.1.1-2.1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ogra> Riddell, yay, thanks
<wolfe> kinda want that to be in gutsy release :/
<pitti> wolfe: please subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug with the patch; thanks for preparing it!
<wolfe> pitti: do I need to make a patch though, or will someone fix the version problem?
<tseliot> tepsipakki: I'm a mod there, can I help you?
<pitti> wolfe: it simply seems that libfam-dev is not yet available for lpia
<cjwatson> wolfe: it's not your problem; python-fam will be given back on lpia once libfam-dev is built
<cjwatson> wolfe: just ignore it
<wolfe> ohhh
<wolfe> thanks
<tepsipakki> tseliot: hi, I'd like to post there to get people test the new ati-driver and xserver :)
<cjwatson> wolfe: it's built fine on other architectures
<Nafallo> fabbione: actually, ping sugarcrm :-)
<tepsipakki> tseliot: bryce suggested that
<ogra> Nafallo, he went for the day
<dholbach> congratulations coNP for becoming MOTU!
<ogra> coNP, congrats !
<Nafallo> ogra: ouch. do you know when he will be back?
<ogra> probably not today anymore
<tseliot> ok, what's your username on ubuntuforums.org?
<ogra> he's an early bird (you should know that after two years :P )
<tepsipakki> tseliot: tepsipakki :)
<pitti> coNP: *hug* MOTU!
<ogra> Keybuk, around ?
<Riddell> ogra, heno: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20070823.2/
* ogra hugs kylem and bryce, openchrome is fine on the T1220 (http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/200104.html?id=YGpiJVKY)
<ogra> bah, i dropped to much again
<ogra> 4M free
<Riddell> ogra: that's a good thing
<Riddell> there's really no reason to get on exactly 700MB for a tribe
<ogra> nah, its a waste :)
<heno> Riddell, ogra: posted. We're still waiting for the server add-on right?
<ogra> heno, serveraddon should be fine
<ogra> its built with the server CD
<Riddell> heno: they're at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20070823/
<heno> ok, thanks
<ogra> size wise they look ok, the report is empty aswell
<ogra> so should be good to test
<heno> yep, posted
<ogra> addon didnt change at all since last tribe though ...
<ogra> i dont expect it to be any different that tribe4
<pitti> meh, I cannot open .ogg or .spx files (Examples/) on the live system
<coNP> dholbach: did you get the thanks? :)
<tseliot> tepsipakki: sorry, there was a blackout... what's your username on ubuntuforums.org?
<tseliot> tepsipakki: I can ask the admins to give you the permission to start new threads there
<iwj> Maybe bug 129029 should be milestoned ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129029 in udev "No Sound on Login Screen or during Login in Gutsy Tribe 3" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129029
<tseliot> tepsipakki: I saw that your username there is tepsipakki. I'll contact the admins
<dholbach> coNP: hm?
<coNP> My DSL dropped the connection. But I wanted to thank you for the congratulation and mentoring.
<dholbach> coNP: thank YOU for all your work - you've been doin great!
<ogra> bryce, kylem, hmm, no xv support with openchrome here ... (worked with the driver i built from cvs in feisty)
<carlos> what could I do to help debugging Intel 3945 wireless card on Gutsy?
<carlos> it used to work, bad, but work. Since more than a week ago, I'm not able to connect at all neither with Network manager  or direct configuration on /etc/network/interfaces
<tepsipakki> tseliot: yep, thanks!
* Hobbsee waves
<tepsipakki> Hobbsee: are you a forum-admin?
<doko> $ evince Vector_Math_Library-Overview.pdf
<doko> ALSA lib confmisc.c:670:(snd_func_card_driver) cannot find card '0'
<doko> ALSA lib conf.c:3500:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_card_driver returned error: No such device
<doko> ALSA lib confmisc.c:391:(snd_func_concat) error evaluating strings
<doko> ALSA lib conf.c:3500:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_concat returned error: No such device
<doko> ALSA lib confmisc.c:1070:(snd_func_refer) error evaluating name
<doko> seb128: evince needs ALSA to show documents???
<cjwatson> it's gotta beep at you ;-)
<tseliot> tepsipakki: no problem ;)
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: no, why?
<tseliot> tepsipakki: I'll let you know when it's all ready
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: i can poke people who are, though
<tseliot> Hobbsee: I already did
<tepsipakki> Hobbsee: sorry, I thought you waved because of me/tseliot searching for one :)
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: ahhh.  i must have joined after that discussion
<ogra> doko, libgnome does ...
<ogra> iirc
<doko> great ... no, gnome is not bloated at all ...
<azeem> doko: cf. libgnome_must_die
<ogra> evince --disable-sound Vector_Math_Library-Overview.pdf :P
<jordi> heya
<jordi> i was going to ask if tribe5 could be expected during the next few hours, but I realise it's way too late to be able to do anything with it today.
<ogra> jordi, we just got the first usable images ...
<jordi> oh
<jordi> that doesn't mean they'll be the ones to publish I guess?
<ogra> so testing is going on atm
<jordi> okay
<jordi> I have plenty to do first thing in the morning tomorrow then.
<ion_> Could xdg-user-dirs and xdg-user-dirs-gtk perhaps be added to xubuntu-desktop?
<Hobbsee> fabbione: yes, it does include me.
<Hobbsee> fabbione: or at least, it does when i'm actually at a computer.
<seb128> doko: no, why?
<seb128> doko: pdf can have sound though
<doko> seb128: and that's a reason not to show docs if I do not have a sound card?
<ogra> doko, did it crash ?
<seb128> doko: no, but you didn't mention it was not showing the documents
<seb128> doko: are you sure that's due to that?
<doko> seb128: that's on the ps3, without a working sound driver.
<ogra> doko, does it work with the command i gave above ?
<ogra>  evince --disable-sound Vector_Math_Library-Overview.pdf
<seb128> doko: works fine with an user not in the audio group, I'm not sure your issue is due to those warnings
<doko> ogra: --disable-sound works
<ogra> then its actually at least related to the sound stuff i'd say
<doko> seb128: ^^^ maybe if gnome is intelligent enough to display the ALSA errors, maybe it should enable --disable-sound by default?
<ogra> i wonder if thats pitti's change to not use esd
<ogra> since that defaults to aplay
<seb128> doko: I doubt the alsa errors come from GNOME
<coNP> Keybuk: do you plan to create an iCal version of the Gutsy release schedule? If not and if you think it is still worth working with that, I would like to create one.
<pitti> ogra: well, it falls back to aplay if esd is not available, nothing more
<ogra> pitti, and if aplay doesnt work/isnt availoable ?
<pitti> ogra: if neither esd nor aplay are available, then you don't have sound :)
<ogra> or is available but doesnt find a card
<ogra> doko, aplay /usr/share/sounds/generic.wav
<ogra> does that produce the same error ?
<doko> ogra: it does
<ogra> so i guess its that
<ogra> aplay bug ... it shouldnt attempt to play if there is no card
<Mirv> cjwatson: Hi, sorry to disturb you, but are i18n fixes on the to-do list for gutsy/ubiquity(-gtk) (bug 132157). I'd just like to see better i18n than what is feisty, when time went eg. to try to get the partitioner not to lose partitions which of course was more important. And currently actually almost translations are missing.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132157 in ubiquity "Untranslated strings in gutsy installer" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132157
<Mirv> +all
<IntuitiveNipple> Which version of apache do we ship with the server CD? is it post-2.1.5 ?
<Mithrandir>    apache2 |    2.2.4-3 |         gutsy | source, all
<IntuitiveNipple> Thanks... I'd best post a bug report then
<cjwatson> Mirv: I don't think we've done a mass update from Rosetta yet, but it's definitely on the list
<Mithrandir> rmadison -s gutsy -u ubuntu apache2 would have told it to you.
<Mithrandir> IntuitiveNipple: oh?
<cjwatson> Mirv: other i18n bug fixes come under post-feature-freeze bug fixes as far as I'm concerned
<IntuitiveNipple> yeah... spent the past 2 weeks tracking down the most obscure HTTP failure in a data-center between Juniper DX load-balancers and apache 2.2 web servers... finally pinpointed it last night, and confirmed it today
<ogra> doko, patch it so that it dies quietly if /proc/asound/cards is empty
<doko> ogra: well, evince just shows garbage on the screen, so it's a mis-feature in evince, regardless of what alsa does ...
<ogra> doko, well, its a libgnome thing .. klicking the widgets needs to handed over to the sound system *somehow*
<ogra> and beyond that, what seb128 said, you can have pdf sith embedded sound
<ogra> so the viewer should be capable
<Mirv> cjwatson: Thanks for information. Indeed Rosetta has not got new strings since Feisty.
<ogra> aplay shouldnt break evince, thats where i agree ...
<cjwatson> Mirv: might need to prod it, sigh
<cjwatson> oh, meh
<cjwatson> the cron job is still set to feisty
<doko> ogra: well, what percentage of pdf docs have embedded sound?
<seb128> doko: you are not going the right way there, when there is a bug we fix it, we don't try to drop the support for the buggy feature
<ogra> doko, not many *yet*
<ogra> web2.0 you know ;)
<seb128> that's not relevant anyway
<seb128> there is a bug and it should be fixed
<ogra> right
<seb128> doesn't matter if 1% or 10% of the pdfs have sound
<Riddell> davmor2: you reported bug 118745 but your problem seems to be about drivers not DPI
<cjwatson> oops
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118745 in libgnome "Font sizes in Gutsy are affected by bad X.org DPI detection" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118745
<cjwatson> Mirv: fixed the cron job, I'll get the Rosetta folks to pull from it once it's run
<lamont> tepsipakki: both exim and postfix have been in main since warty
<davmor2> Riddell: My original bug report was bug 127677 I was then told it was a dupe of 118745
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127677 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "oversized fonts in compiz in gutsy on intel 945 (dup-of: 118745)" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127677
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118745 in libgnome "Font sizes in Gutsy are affected by bad X.org DPI detection" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118745
<fabbione> Hobbsee: ok thanks
<fabbione> Nafallo: ?
<davmor2> Riddell: Or would you rather me report a fresh bug that simply states there is an error with the intel Driver?
<Nafallo> fabbione: hi. I installed sugarcrm and the first thing after setup it starts complaining about needed upgrades. could we have it updated in dapper-commercial please? :-)
<davmor2> and do my step by step fix on that bug instead
<pirroh> hi, someone here running dapper? I need your /etc/inittab if possible
<pirroh> trying to fix a bug in migrate-inittab.pl
<fabbione> Nafallo: it's not up to me to decide. File a bug please and make sure that it is assigned to me.
<StevenK> pirroh: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/initab
<StevenK> Er, inittab
<pirroh> StevenK: thanks a lot!
<Nafallo> fabbione: sure thing.
<Riddell> davmor2: I'm sure there already was one such one, searching
<Nafallo> fabbione: against Ubuntu, right?
<pirroh> StevenK: damn, it's absolutely the same of gutsy version
<evand> 20070823.5?  Sounds like an exciting morning.
<fabbione> Nafallo: yes for now
<Riddell> man, I'm never going to live that down
* fabbione &
<davmor2> Riddell:  Does the alt installer auto detect the driver before continuing the install because what was a nice install bar is now proper screwy
<Hobbsee> Riddell: dunno, if next time you, or whoever else, gets to .6....
<evand> haha
<Riddell> davmor2: bug 133824 maybe
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133824 in discover-data "Intel chipset on HP NC6320 (PCI 8086:27a2) not recognised" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133824
<Riddell> or bug 134153
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134153 in xorg "[gutsy]  xorg failed to start on an Intel 945 using Kubuntu desktop CD daily build 20070822.1 (dup-of: 133824)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134153
<Nafallo> fabbione: #134266
* nixternal can confirm 134153
<Hobbsee> ScottK: can you ack https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/democracyplayer/+bug/129043 for the sake of consistency?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129043 in democracyplayer "democracy-player has a new version and a new name, please upgrade package in Gutsy" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
<ScottK> sure
<Nafallo> 134266
* Nafallo hits ubotu with a stick
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Once I decode the new LP U/I I will do it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: email interface still works.
<Hobbsee> bug 134266
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134266 in ubuntu "sugarcrm in dapper-commercial is old" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134266
* Hobbsee hits Nafallo with a stick for not calling ubotu correctly
<Nafallo> baah
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Done.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: thanks
<davmor2> Riddell: No it's neither It is recongised and x does start it's just unusable
<hjmills> roughly what time today will the tribe 5 cd be available?
<Hobbsee> hjmills: "when it's ready"
<Hobbsee> hjmills: there are candidates for testing, though
<hjmills> Hobbsee, oh ok, roughly how stable is gutsy at this point?
<Hobbsee> using it for production would be unwise.  it's not released.
<hjmills> Hobbsee, I'm a home user who likes to break things...?
<Hobbsee> then you might be OK
<hjmills> ok, thanks - I will keep feisty alongside it - look forward to testing tribe 5 when its out
<cjwatson> pirroh: I can give you an ancient crufty inittab that originated somewhere around Debian slink if you'd like
<cjwatson> hmm, actually the interesting cruft seems to be commented out, but you can have it if you like anyway
<cjwatson> pirroh: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/inittab
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hi tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, Riddell has comp+lained today in the morning (when you were not here yet) that when booting Tribe 5 that CUPS gives an error message and does not start
<pitti> tkamppeter: yep, I saw it
<pitti> tkamppeter: bug 131976, added to release notes already
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131976 in cupsys "fails to start: cannot apply additional memory protection after relocation" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131976
<IntuitiveNipple> ok, apache + server-farm with load-balancer bug posted as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/134274
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134274 in apache2 "Unexplained random HTTP connection failures in hardware load-balanced web-server farms" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<ogra> wow, thats a novel, not a bug :)
<zyga> are there any ubuntu devs from japan?
<IntuitiveNipple> ogra: It took a lifetime to find!
<andrea-bs> does anybody want to tell me how to package a python application or give me a link to a wiki?
<cjwatson> zyga: I don't think so, unfortunately
<cjwatson> andrea-bs: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ though that's not exactly a how-to
<andrea-bs> ok, tanks
<andrea-bs> *thanks
<cjwatson> andrea-bs: might be easiest to just pick a similar source package and base your work on that ...
<StevenK> zyga: persia (Emmet Hikory) is.
<andrea-bs> cjwatson, i'm new to packaging. Can you please give me an example source package?
<pitti> seb128: anything new in Gnome we should mention on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe5 ?
<\sh> IntuitiveNipple, did you test it with another LB appliance e.g. F5, Cisco?
<seb128> pitti: no
<cjwatson> andrea-bs: no, I can't; it depends on the sort of thing you're doing
<davmor2> Riddell: Another fantastic pic for you http://www.davmor2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/after-detect.jpg
<IntuitiveNipple> \sh: no, unless you have one lying about...!?
<cjwatson> andrea-bs: one of the most important skills in packaging is finding out information :-)
<\sh> IntuitiveNipple, well, we have some cisco lb modules here, and never ran into your problem
<davmor2> Riddell: Again I think this is down to the intel driver
<IntuitiveNipple> \sh: As the article says, it may be Juniper specific
<Riddell> davmor2: funky disco lights
<zyga> StevenK: do you happen to know if he's from tokyo?
<andrea-bs> cjwatson, do you want to know how works my application?
<pitti> seb128: is there a new upstream version? tribe4 had 2.19.6
<Hobbsee> zyga: he's not originally from tokyo
<seb128> pitti: 2.19.90
<cjwatson> andrea-bs: I don't really have time, I'm afraid, I can only supply the odd pointer
<pitti> seb128: cool, I'll mention that; thanks
<andrea-bs> cjwatson, ok, thank you
<seb128> you're welcome
<\sh> IntuitiveNipple, so I think it's more a juniper bug then ;) but it doesn't happen with no tcp multiplexing connections, when I read this report correctly
<cjwatson> andrea-bs: there are a number of python applications and libraries in the default Ubuntu installation, which can serve as examples
<andrea-bs> never mind
<IntuitiveNipple> \sh: If the persistent connection is created when there's a request waiting, or within the timeout, the issue will never appear
<davmor2> Riddell:  I will write a new bug me thinks it'll be more obvious that way
<pitti> seb128: .90 -> can this be called '2.20 beta'?
<IntuitiveNipple> \sh: It seems that way... the main issue is, the silent introduction of TCP_DEFER_ACCEPT in apache 2.1.5 - in the web-farm I've been working with, they've got a mix of pre- and post- 2.1.5
<seb128> pitti: 2.20.0 Beta 1
<IntuitiveNipple> \sh: So you can imagine how confusing it was... plus, the harder they tested the servers by firing packets at them, the less the failure occured
<tseliot> andrea-bs: you can either use dist-utils or this method: http://members.chello.at/horst.jens/files/from_py_to_deb.pdf
<StevenK> zyga: I don't, sorry, but his timezone in Launchpad is set to Tokyo.
<zyga> thanks
<andrea-bs> tseliot, i will take a look
<soren> For a fun time, visit http://id.archive.ubuntu.com/ . Of particular interest is the server string at the bottom of the page (which by the way is a standard directory listing from a lighttpd instance, afaics).
<ScottK> IIRC persia is not from Japan, but does live there now.
<zyga> living here is queer
<cjwatson> soren: heh
<tseliot> andrea-bs: have a look at this page (where it says Distributing Python applications): http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/pymaemo_tutorial/python_maemo_howto.html
<cjwatson> tseliot: that doesn't appear to describe a process that creates packages that follow the current Python policy
<cjwatson> (no mention of python-central or python-support in there)
<tseliot> cjwatson: which one? both?
<cjwatson> either
<tseliot> I see
<cjwatson> see the policy link I provided above along with http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<cjwatson> the latter is not terribly comprehensible unless you're converting an old-style Python package unfortunately
<tseliot> cjwatson: thanks for posting the new policy. I have always used those 2 guides for my python apps...
<cjwatson> I generally reject Python packages uploaded to Ubuntu that don't follow the new policy, though I don't know if all the other archive admins do the same
<tseliot> cjwatson: I'll make my packages compliant with the new policy ;)
<davmor2> Riddell:  New Bug is 134284
<Riddell> thanks
<Hobbsee> StevenK: about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField - where is the documentation on how to get exceptions?
<lamont> cjwatson: that policy is over 4 months old... time to s/New/Current/ :)
<cjwatson> lamont: heh. More like a year or two
<lamont> cjwatson: I was just going from "last edited 2007-04-21 15:27:55 by PiotrOzarowski"
<cjwatson> Hobbsee: pkgbinarymangler bug report / upload, I think
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: hmm.  i would have thought we'd have this all documented somewhere, clearly, for both ubuntu developers who dont know about it, and about debian developers coming at us like wounded bulls
<cjwatson> pitti: ^-- ?
<cjwatson> there's a maintainermangler.overrides in pkgbinarymangler with stuff like this:
<cjwatson> ignore_emails: lamont@debian.org q-funk@iki.fi cjwatson@debian.org
<pitti> mathiaz: bug 131976 is quite an interesting one; do you think that's possible to fix in AA itself?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131976 in cupsys "fails to start: cannot apply additional memory protection after relocation" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131976
<mathiaz> pitti: I think kees asked the apparmor guys about it.
<pitti> Hobbsee: there's no documentation yet ATM; bug reports are a good answer, I think
<pitti> mathiaz: ah, cool
<mathiaz> pitti: I haven't seen any response from them yet.
<mathiaz> pitti: it seems that it only affect specific file system.
<Hobbsee> pitti: ...right.
<Lure> tepsipakki: around?
<tkamppeter> Is there no devel meeting today?
<cjwatson> tkamppeter: nope
<cjwatson> tkamppeter: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-August/000326.html
<tkamppeter> I did not get that one (and I also checked my spam folder now).
<cjwatson> I just have Ubuntu list mail bypass my spam checker
<tkamppeter> Fridge needs to be updated.
<cjwatson> yes, it does
<cjwatson> unfortunately Canonical distro management don't run the fridge :-(
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: well, fridge-devel@ never got cc'd, did it?
<ogra> cjwatson, i assumed jono was a fridger ....
<cjwatson> no idea
<Spads> when you assume, you make an ass out of ume, which is a Japanese plum.
* Hobbsee forwards to fridge-devel
<ogra> a plum ?
<ogra> really ?
<ogra> :)
<Spads> 
<Spads> those are the dried ones anyway
<Spads>   (n) (1) plum; Japanese apricot
* ogra needs to do more english crosswords
<Spads> when you assist, you make a cyst... oh, never mind.
<tepsipakki> Lure: yep?
<Lure> tepsipakki: I have tried you new xserver+ati driver, but it does not properly configure modes for my panel (should be 1920x1200, but it reports only up to1280x800). How should I report this issue?
<tepsipakki> try adding "Virtual 1920 1200" to Modes
<Lure> tepsipakki: message: "(II) RADEON(0): Not using mode "1920x1200" (width too large for virtual size)"
<tepsipakki> yes
<tepsipakki> the default is 1600 1200
<Lure> tepsipakki: will do and report back
<tepsipakki> upstream plans to make it automatically set up a value based on vram size
<Lure> tepsipakki: so something like this: Modes           "Virtual 1920 1200" "1920x1200" "1280x1024" "1024x768"
<Lure> tepsipakki: should it be "x" there, like with other modes?
<tepsipakki> no, those are obsolete and can be removed
<Lutin> infinity: around ? (about the loadlin thing I told you yesterday)
<Lure> tepsipakki: ok, so just "Virtual         1920 1200" under Display
<infinity> Lutin: Oh, erm.  Right.  I'm about to take a bit of a nap before I pass out unvoluntarily.  I'll put a big blinking note on my desktop to look into it and fix it when I wake up.
<Lutin> infinity: hehe, thanks :)
* Lure is trying new config
<Lure> tepsipakki: great, I have 1920x1200, only DPI is wrong now (=> small fonts)
<Lure> tepsipakki: it got dimensions wrong: dimensions:    1920x1200 pixels (507x317 millimeters)
<alex-weej> asac: herro
<Lure> tepsipakki: it should be 330mm x 210mm
<alex-weej> why don't we just start distributing FDI files with screen dimensions hardcoded for rogue monitors?
<tepsipakki> Lure: yep, I've seen similar..
<Lure> tepsipakki: should I report this somewhere (bugzilla, mailing list)?
<tepsipakki> Lure: bugzilla.freedesktop.org
<davmor2> xubuntu has the same quirk as kubuntu when it comes to checking the cd boot the system
<Lure> tepsipakki: will do, thanks for helping me out
<tepsipakki> Lure: or ping agd5f on #xorg :)
<bryce> morning
<ogra> Riddell, i'm in the ltsp building process, if nothing goes wrong there i should be done in 20-30 min with -server
* Riddell switches channels
<Riddell> ogra: ok, and I see desktop has some tests so we should be good to release with that?
<ogra> if ltsp doesnt fail we're good i think
<ogra> i couldnt test without linux-ubuntu-modules :/ so it didnt have any pre-testing this time ...
<Riddell> yeah, it's been a nasty milestone cycle
<ogra> yep
<ogra> its really exciting to watch it though ... if you donmt know if it will work
<ogra> bah update-initramfs on a 1GHz CPU takes minutes ...
<ogra> looking good :)
<asac> alex-weej: ?
<alex-weej> asac: PPTP VPN on NM
<alex-weej> asac: mmm acronyms
<ogra> *shudder*
<asac> alex-weej: ah right. what was the bug-id again?
<alex-weej> asac: 1 sec
* alex-weej waits for Evolution to churn over
<alex-weej> asac: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131349
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131349 in network-manager "NetworkManager crashed with signal 5 when attempting to connect to VPN" [Medium,New] 
<j1mc> does anyone have information about what will be included in the ubuntu tribe 5 release notes so that xubuntu can mooch off of them as appropriate?  =)
<j1mc> or kubuntu notes.  :)
<j1mc> i try to stay up on what's changing, but there's so much.
<Riddell> j1mc: see the ubuntu page
<Riddell> http://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/Tribe5
<j1mc> thanks :)
<ogra> Riddell, edubuntu server i386 is a go ...
<ogra> so feel free to release, i'm fine with what i have
<alex-weej> asac: you got any ideas or should i just leave it for now?
<asac> alex-weej: i am looking
<alex-weej> asac: ok if you need me to try anything i'll be here
<alex-weej> (i can make changes to code if you want)
<Lure> tepsipakki: fd bug 12117
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 12117 in wireless-tools "manpage of iftab has a confusing paragraph" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12117
<asac> alex-weej: the assertion fails because manager is NULL ... which shouldn't happen
<kylem> `
<asac> alex-weej: can you run network manager from command line with valgrind?
<Lure> tepsipakki: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12117
<asac> alex-weej: e.g. not in daemon mode
<ubotu> Freedesktop bug 12117 in Driver/Radeon "6.7.191/randr 1.2 issues on HP nw8240 (FireGL V5000 PCIE)" [Normal,New] 
<alex-weej> asac: surer
<alex-weej> asac: i'm not sure how you want me to use valgrind, is it just "valgrind args"?
<asac> just run plain valgrind for now ... install dbg symbols before
<asac> ... of nm
<alex-weej> asac: i'm running "valgrind /usr/sbin/NetworkManager --no-daemon"
<asac> looks good i guess
<alex-weej> damn i didn't update pitti's repo urls
<alex-weej> asac: can you give me the apt repo URIs for debugging symbols?
<asac> alex-weej: i think the new place is: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/ddebs/
<alex-weej> asac: ok, debugging symbols installed
<alex-weej> asac: should i just make it crash again?
<asac> try ;)
<alex-weej> ok it crashed, now what
<alex-weej> you wanna see the output?
<alex-weej> asac: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8955911/valgrindlog
<iwj> Riddell: The iso tracker seems to suggest things are generally go now for Ubuntu at least.   Any more stuff you need me to look at ?  If not I'll get out my winmodem laptop and check that's fine with the desktop cd.
<alex-weej> asac: DNS resolution failure...
<Riddell> iwj: nothing specific, I'm just waiting on xubuntu and edubuntu to say go
<asac> alex-weej: NetworkManager: <WARN>  load_services(): Error loading VPN service file '/etc/NetworkManager/VPN/nm-ppp-starter.name': program does not exist, or is not executable.
<alex-weej> asac: turns out i was fudging the gateway address
<asac> huh?
<asac> is it gone now?
<alex-weej> asac: it doesn't work, but it's stopped crashing
<asac> i don't understand ... so what did you exactly change to make it go away?
<alex-weej> changed vpn1.ic.ac.uk to vpn.ic.ac.uk
<alex-weej> i changed it back to a bogus address and it crashes again
<alex-weej> ** Message: <information>       Could not resolve VPN servers IP.
<asac> ok ... please put that info into the bug :)
<alex-weej> ok done
<alex-weej> so i guess i now have a new bug... why can't i connect to my VPN :P
<asac> alex-weej: what kind of WARN/ERROR messages do you see?
<asac> (now)
<iwj> Riddell: Excellent.
<tseliot> tepsipakki: you have now the authorisation to start new threads in the Dev Link subforum of ubuntuforums.org
<bigon> seb128: hi, I have a question, why have you increased the epoch of the package pidgin?
<alex-weej> asac: NetworkManager: <WARN>  nm_vpn_service_process_signal(): VPN failed for service 'org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.pptp', signal 'LoginFailed', with message 'VPN Connection failed'.
<alex-weej> asac: when i edit my VPN connection details it has a little tab with the heading MS CHAP-v1/v2. it asks for my username (IC\amj06) and says "Your password must be defined in /etc/ppp/chap-secrets"
<alex-weej> regardless, NM-Applet asks me for a username and password anyway
<alex-weej> this wasn't necessary in Feisty... it just worked
<alex-weej> of course, now i need root to edit /etc/ppp/chap-secrets, and i need to figure out what my "client", "server", "secret" and "IP addresses" are
<alex-weej> it seems that something big changed between feisty and gutsy here...
<alex-weej> asac: actually what seems more significant is this /usr/sbin/pppd: Couldn't load plugin nm-pptp-service-pppd-plugin.so
<alex-weej> /usr/sbin/pppd: /usr/lib/pppd/2.4.4/nm-pptp-service-pppd-plugin.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<alex-weej> network-manager-pptp installs /usr/lib/network-manager-pptp/nm-pptp-service-pppd-plugin.so
<alex-weej> asac: i symlinked it and now it says: /usr/sbin/pppd: Plugin nm-pptp-service-pppd-plugin.so is for pppd version 2.4.3, this is 2.4.4
<alex-weej> asac_the_2n1: connection problems?
<asac> alex-weej: no ... two systems
<asac> alex-weej: yes ... the warning about the missing config filename makes me feel bad as well
<asac> alex-weej: do you see that still?
<alex-weej> asac: /etc/NetworkManager/VPN/nm-ppp-starter.name exists. it lists for the "program": /usr/bin/nm-ppp-starter, but as it says, it doesn't exist
<alex-weej> the NM PPP service config file is there, the program it points to isn't
<alex-weej> there seem to be a lot of problems here...
<asac> alex-weej: maybe nm ... ptpp needs to be updated
<asac> in src/pppd/patchlevel.h there is 2.4.3
<alex-weej> asac: actually that error about the service file doesn't show up anymore... i don't get why not
<asac> alex-weej: try to rebuild and see if just bumping the version there helps
<davmor2> Riddell: I have just run Kub 64bit restricted manager does run it's just run as an icon not a window though
<alex-weej> asac: rebuild what?
<asac> nm...pptp
<asac> and modify the header (as a hack)
<alex-weej> well pppd is looking up the sofile in the complete wrong place anyway
<alex-weej> and also i wonder what happened to the "vpnc" problem.
<alex-weej> oh man, i think i need to get a fresh installation and try again
<Riddell> davmor2: how did you run it?
<davmor2> Riddell: it was the chip below nm-applet just clicked it
<Riddell> davmor2: and the window pops up?
<asac> alex-weej: hmm ... nm..pptp ships its own set of selected ppp headers ... which are out of sync with what ppp-dev would provide
<davmor2> Riddell: Yes there is a notice saying restricted drivers are available you click on the chip and the window opens
<asac> alex-weej: this can't be good
<davmor2> Riddell: click on admin mode then click the tick box and restart
<alex-weej> asac: we are doomed
<alex-weej> asac: i'm going to close the bug i filed and make a new one about the DNS lookup crash if that's OK?
<alex-weej> asac: and then file new bugs against the problem with vpnc, missing sofile and missing /usr/bin/nm-ppp-starter
<alex-weej> but after i eat. i am starving.
<Riddell> davmor2: sounds like it works perfectly then
<asac> alex-weej: I agree that we should have two bugs here, but why dump the existing one?
<davmor2> Riddell: that's what I thought but you posted a bug against it
<Riddell> davmor2: oh that's because it shouldn't appear on the live CD session
<davmor2> Riddell: Why it does on all the others?
<Riddell> which is a bug
<bdmurray> asac: hello - have you seen a bug about n-m choosing the wireless connection on boot up even if your wired network is connected?
<Riddell> there's no point installing stuff you have to restart for on a live session
<asac> bdmurray: do you see that? or are you refering to an existing bug?
<davmor2> Riddell: Right sorry I thought it was the norm because of all of them doing it.
<bdmurray> asac: I see that and was wondering if you were or aware of it or if there was already a bug report about it.
<asac> bdmurray: are both interfaces setup as auto?
<asac> (in /etc/network/interfaces)
<bdmurray> asac: yes
<asac> bdmurray: then nm has to choose one after all :)
<bdmurray> asac: right, but shouldn't it choose wired
<asac> bdmurray: it can only manage one interface at a time ... and since we fixed the "nm tears already if'upped interfaces on startup" we have a problem somehow
<asac> bdmurray: it cannot really choose an interface unless it would blacklist some random interface to be not-nm-managed ... or tear down the one it doesn't choose
<bdmurray> asac: I'm not sure I understand as it switches to wired from wireless when I connect the cable.
<asac> bdmurray: you mean after unplugging and plugging in again?
<bdmurray> asac: correct
<asac> well that is reasonable ... because when you unplug nm gets back to a state it actually can manage (e.g. just one connection at a time) ... so when you plugin in the wired connection it chooses that above the wireless one.
<asac> one might argue that just dropping an existing connection because a new one becomes available is a bug though.
<seb128> bigon: did I?
<seb128> bigon: likely a typo
<bdmurray> asac: okay, however when I first boot up I end up having 2 ip addresses on the same subnet
<asac> bdmurray: right
<asac> because you have those interfaces configured as auto
<bdmurray> asac: so is that not the correct way to configure them?
<asac> bdmurray: i don't know ... i think we have to do something about that ... either installer should just setup one auto interface ... or network manager should not try to manage auto interfaces
<asac> bdmurray: its not really trivial because most existing installs already have a bunch of interfaces set to auto
<bdmurray> asac: hmm, I thought it worked in Feisty but I'd have to double check
<asac> bdmurray: in feisty network manager solves this by tearing down all interfaces on startup
<davmor2> ogra: ping
<davmor2> any other edubuntu dev here?
<soren> Anyone who can poke universe uploads through?
<soren> If so, gnokii and lighttpd need a nudge..
<soren> Thanks
* soren wanders off for dinner
<bdmurray> asac: ah, okay and I forget why that was changed
<asac> bdmurray: well it was one of the most important bugs to fix ... unfortunately we bought in some new
<asac> bdmurray: i will start discussion on ml tomorrow
<Riddell> ogra: how are we doing?
<bdmurray> asac: okay, sounds good
<davmor2> Riddell: ogra is an edubuntu dev isn't he?
<Riddell> he quite defines the category
<Riddell> davmor2: yes
<davmor2> ogra: in edubuntu on a workstation install why are there no educational stuff installed?
<j1mc> Riddell: xubuntu release notes are ready.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe5/Xubuntu
* j1mc hugs #ubuntu-devel
<iwj> Hmm.  Well my winmodem works but the general dialup stuff in gutsy livecd is pretty poor.  I think I'll look into that tomorrow.
<davmor2> Riddell: setting the frame buffer to a set size in the menus stop the break up in the progress bar
<sbalneav> Forgive my lack of launchpad-fu, but if I was looking to get what patches were applied to gnome-screensaver, where would I go for that?
<kdub432> will the link for tribe 5 be posted today?
<alex-weej> sbalneav: apt-get source gnome-screensaver
<alex-weej> sbalneav: then look at the debian/patches folder
<sbalneav> Yeah, I was hoping to see them online, since my gutsy box is at home, and I'm working.
<sbalneav> LaserJock helped me though
<sbalneav> he did that and pasted 'em to the pastiebot.  Thanks!
<LaserJock> kdub432: there will be an announcement email
<Kmos> kmos@bash:~$ apt-cache search mozilla-browser
<Kmos> openoffice.org - OpenOffice.org Office suite
<Kmos> huh ?
<Kmos> asac: what's the name of mozilla browser on gutsy ?
<Kmos> bug 26038
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 26038 in mozilla "[CVE-2005-1790]  DoS against Mozilla-based browsers" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/26038
<davmor2> Kmos: firefox seamonkey mozilla
<Kmos> seamonkey
<Kmos> that's what I want here
<Kmos> now it's iceape
<davmor2> type in seamonkey I don't think it has been updated that throws up iceape
<cbovy> hi all, just new here. Can I discuss a bug in Ubuntu Gutsy here?
<cjwatson> Kmos: 'apt-cache search' searches all package fields. 'apt-cache show openoffice.org | grep mozilla-browser'
<cjwatson> cbovy: if you're proposing a fix, yes; otherwise #ubuntu+1 might be better
<asac> Kmos: its fixed .... look in debbug
<cbovy> cjwatson: The fix is in launchpad (actually on bugzilla.gnome.org). beagle needs a recompilation to get it fixed.
<Mithrandir> cbovy: which bug #?
<cbovy> Mithrandir: #128804
<asac> Kmos: i processed the bug now
<Mithrandir> cbovy: slightly more than just a recompilation
<Kmos> asac: thanks
<cbovy> Mithrandir: Oh, I though including the patch from http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=452494 would solve the issue.
<Kmos> cjwatson: ok, thx
<ubotu> Gnome bug 452494 in bindings "evolution-sharp removed API, causing Beagle to crash" [Critical,Unconfirmed] 
<Mithrandir> cbovy: yes, usually if somebody says "just a recompile" it means a no-change recompile.
<keescook> Riddell: main is still frozen, yes?
<cbovy> Mithrandir: it is almost just a recompilation. :-)
<Riddell> keescook: yes, but everything seems to be tested now so I'll publish the images
<keescook> Riddell: sweet.  :)
<Mithrandir> cbovy: let me recompile it and test, then
<cbovy> Mithrandir: Are you the owner of the package? Sorry for asking, I used to run another distro but switched recently....
<Mithrandir> cbovy: no, I'm not, but I can still update it.
<cbovy> Mithrandir: Ok, thanks.
<Mithrandir> cbovy: we don't have owners as such in Ubuntu.
<cbovy> Mithrandir: so anyone can change, rebuild and upload packages?
<Mithrandir> cbovy: technically, I can upload any package in the distro, but uploading packages other people care about without a minimum of coordination is considered bad form and frowned upon
<Mithrandir> however, nobody has uploaded Beagle for a real change since May, so I'll just build, test and upload.
<cbovy> Mithrandir: Thanks for your answers and rebuild. Have to go! See ya.
<Mithrandir> see you
<atlas95_> hello
<atlas95_> please upgrade transmission
<atlas95_> i have make a personnal deb and the 0.8 stable work very good, the gusty package bug a lot, it is a svn version
<Kmos> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pythoncad
<Kmos> why it's on updates and proposed at feisty ?
<Kmos> when it goes to updated, shouldn't be removed on proposed ?
<Kmos> *updates
<seb128> Kmos: that's a minor detail, maybe
<seb128> Kmos: you can look if there is a soyuz bug about that
<seb128> and open one if that's not the case already
<Riddell> maswan: ping
<Riddell> maswan: tribe-5 syncing to the cdimage servers now
<Kmos> seb128: ok, thx.. one more thing
<Kmos> bug 108612
<Kmos> now I can se this bug to fix released
<Kmos> ?
<Kmos> *set
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108612 in pythoncad "[apport]  pythoncad crashed with ExpatError in parse()" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108612
<Kmos> seb128:
<Kmos> [22:05]  <kiko> the removal in proposed needs to be done manually
<Kmos> [22:06]  <kiko> you need to contact an ubuntu archive admin for that
<Kmos> :)
<seb128> Kmos: not me, I never did it and I don't get the interest
<seb128> Kmos: it's not annoying anybody in proposed
<Kmos> seb128 :)
<seb128> Kmos: why do you try to get that cleaned? There is plently of bugs on launchpad and other things to do before looking to those details
<Kmos> seb128: yeah.. i just found it when i'm doing bugs stuff
<seb128> there was a bug about that?
<Kmos> a fix commited one, i found in my bug list
<Kmos> but it's already fix released, so that's why i checked the updated / proposed thing
<Kmos> and see it wasn't removed there
<seb128> Kmos: ok, no need to bother with those I think
<Kmos> seb128: yeah =) i checking others now.. :)
<lucky_lucas> Hi, will the ati driver 6.7.x will be used in ubuntu since it has support for randr 1.2
<lucky_lucas> I used it today (I mean the git version) and It screw the kubuntu x session
<bryce> lucky_lucas: that's our hope, however we're testing it now
<bryce> lucky_lucas: there are a number of issues reported, but alex is responding to them very quickly, so we're hoping to see rapid stabilization with it
<lucky_lucas> I mean, I tried to have some dual screens settings through kde system settings and it completly messed it so I wonder if KDE is able to handle xrandr 1.2
<bryce> lucky_lucas: so first thanks for testing it!  and second, it would be great if you could mention the problems directly to Alex Deucher via xorg-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, or via #xorg-devel (see agd5f)
<lucky_lucas> ok i copy paste it and I try to find the x logs
<lucky_lucas> I know that ubuntu will have displayconfig-gtk, but what about kde ?
<lucky_lucas> It asked me to restart X, so I think it doesn't take any advantage of randr 1.2
<lucky_lucas> Well, in kubuntu we will need to install displayconfig-gtk I guess
<bryce> kde has displayconfig.  In fact displayconfig-gtk is a gtk version of that
<bryce> I haven't tried the original displayconfig so don't know how they compare
<lucky_lucas> displayconfig is the one you find in the system settings menu ?
<bryce> if you choose to use displayconfig-gtk I think there would be no issues, except that you might have to manually add it to your kde menu
<bryce> yes
<Riddell> lucky_lucas: yes
<bryce> it's called "Screens and Graphics"
<lucky_lucas> Because this one asked me to restart X
<lucky_lucas> so I guess it is not able to take advantages og xrandr 1.2
<lucky_lucas> of xrandr 1.2
<bryce> I believe it does, I'm not sure why it would ask to restart x
<lucky_lucas> MI will redo a clean install of tribe 5 tommorow and do the exactly same settings and i will see what happens
<bryce> if you're certain you should not need to restart X, please file a bug about it against displayconfig-gtk with logs and config files
<bryce> ok cool
<lucky_lucas> I used the git version of ati driver which handles randr 1.2
<lucky_lucas> and by command line i could see the second screen and the available settings
<bryce> there is a ubuntu version of that which we put up for testers:  http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/dpkg/ati/
<lucky_lucas> nice i will check this
<lucky_lucas> bryce are you here tomorrow ? Because I could need guidance for a tuto about return to the ati driver with good perf
<bryce> yup I'll be here
<lucky_lucas> It's easy in the way ati to fglrx but fglrx -> ati seems to break the 3d acceleration
<bryce> you probably need to reinstall mesa in that case
<lucky_lucas> I did it and nothing changed
<bryce> hrm, not sure then
<lucky_lucas> And i'm looking to fix it once for all in the ubuntu-fr documentatio
<lucky_lucas> The case is that many peoples try the fglrx for any reason, and once they see that fglrx doesn't provide aiglx support they just want to return to ati but it breaks the 3d acceleration
<lucky_lucas> One last question : Can we expect in the next release some kind of automatic hotplug handling ? I mean automatic clone for beamers for example and automatic extend desktop for the dual screen at home etc...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Riddell] : Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty, #ubuntu+1 for gutsy support | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | UVF in place | Tribe 5 out
<Riddell> freeze over, upload at will
<ion_> Yay
<Kmos> Riddell: the DVD version continues OVERSIZED
<dobey> huh
<Riddell> Kmos: I havn't released any DVD images
<Riddell> and the Kubuntu DVDs are fine
<seb128> mr_pouit: I'll have a look to the evince changes before you upload if that's ok with you
<bryce> lucky_lucas: I'm hoping so for Gutsy+1 but we'll see -- depends a lot on how many people can assist with the work
<bryce> lucky_lucas: my main priority for Gutsy+1 is to get monitor detection rock solid, and finally get 3731 closed
<Kmos> Riddell: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd
<lucky_lucas> ok good to konw
<Riddell> hmm, I may have caused lots of accepted e-mails to go out for translations, appologies
<Riddell> Kmos: that's not released and it's not kubuntu, so not something I care about at this time of night
<Kmos> Riddell: just to know =) today is over for you..
<lucky_lucas> bryce: 3731, Is it an all kind of material problem or it targets only one chipset
#ubuntu-devel 2007-08-24
<minghua> Is the archive rebuild result publicly available somewhere?
<fabbione> morning
<bddebian> Heya
* lamont wonders how to get d-i to ignore the fact that the archive signature failed
* lamont gets his answer
<fabbione> anybody slightly familiar with compiz?
<StevenK> The code, or using it?
<Treenaks> tepsipakki: I've tried the 6.7.191(?.. the one with randr) ati driver, but it doesn't understand 1920x1200 and falls back to 1280x768
<tepsipakki> Treenaks: yep, add "Virtual 1920 1200" (or the max your card's vram allows) to the Modes
<tepsipakki> it defaults to 1600 1200 currently
<tepsipakki> and it will be fixed upstream to use maximum values the vram allows
<fabbione> StevenK: just using it
<fabbione> StevenK: i can't find some keybindings.. like to switch from one workspace to another
<fabbione> StevenK: or how to set how many workspaces I want
<fabbione> that's the only thing atm that's limiting me
<mdke> morning all
<holycow> hi
<holycow> any hardware gurus around?
<holycow> i just recieved myh fujitsu fmv-u8240 umpc
<holycow> got ubuntu on it
<holycow> but would like to get some pointers on tracking down hardware related skills
<holycow> need to get a proper keymap for this thing and need to learn more about touchscreens
<holycow> anyone muck about in that area of things?
<pitti> mhb: hi
<Mithrandir> holycow: you want to just run normal ubuntu on it?
<Lutin> hi there
<maswan> Riddell: pong, looking at it then
<superm1_> since there is an override system in place on launchpad, is there anything wrong with including a Section in the source part of debian/control?  This would let the same packages then be uploaded to both PPAs as well as ordinary ubuntu without any source changes
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> congratulations everybody for rolling out tribe 5!
<Hobbsee> good morning, dholbach
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<seb128> dholbach: congrats to you too, you are part of the team you know ;)
<Hobbsee> seb128: oh gnome master, is there a gnome alternative for the clock on kde's kicker, with the timezones?
* dholbach hugs seb128
<seb128> Hobbsee: the default clock in GNOME has timezone, right click, preferences, display several timezones
<Hobbsee> seb128: hmmm.  i wonder why no one ever finds them then.  thanks
<seb128> dunno who is "no one", I know several people who found the option ;)
<coNP> Hobbsee: kdeworldclock is something else then displaying different timezones.
<Hobbsee> coNP: oh, you wanted world clock. right.
<Hobbsee> seb128: no, it's one of the things that a whole bunch of people ask.  but yes, some people are good at finding things ;)
<coNP> Hobbsee: I am sure this is a relatively new feature.
<doko> seb128: dholbach: where is the upstream of pyspi?
<Treenaks> tepsipakki: adding Virtual 1920 1200 doesn't work -- I still get 1280x768
<Hobbsee> coNP: no idea :)
<seb128> coNP: right, it's new from the gutsy cycle
<tepsipakki> Treenaks: hmm, worked for someone else
<Treenaks> tepsipakki: I'll try to get a logfile, will that help?
<tepsipakki> it could, yes
<dholbach> doko: http://people.redhat.com/zcerza/dogtail/downloads.html
<doko> dholbach: zcerza was missing ...
<doko> thanks
<doko> dholbach, seb128: could you ask upstream about the build failure?
<dholbach> doko: gnome bug 423110?
<dholbach> ubugtu? ubotu?
<Hobbsee> ubotu: ping
<ubotu> host not found
<Hobbsee> ubugtu is long dead.
<Hobbsee> gnome bug 423110
<ubotu> Gnome bug 423110 in general "pyspi fails to build with pyrex 0.9.5.1a" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=423110
<doko> dholbach: could you mark bug 128227 as forwarded?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128227 in pyspi "gutsy/amd64: ftbfs / autopkgtest failure" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128227
<seb128> pitti: I can do the pending syncs if you want since I didn't do them on wednesday due to the freeze
<pitti> seb128: if you have time for it, sure! I'll turn my attention to the NEW queue then
<seb128> k, doing them
* pitti hugs seb128
* seb128 hugs pitti
<dholbach> doko: done
<Hobbsee> morning pitti!
<pitti> hey Hobbsee!
* Hobbsee hugs pitti :)
<Hobbsee> pitti: Riddell well done on t5
<pitti> indeed (I already mailed him congrats), go Riddell!
<Riddell> thanks guys
<Hobbsee> Riddell: :)
<ogra> yeah, great job Riddell
<cjwatson> superm1: including Section is fine, try to make it be at least valid though ;-)
<ogra> pitti, did mpt have a look at the new printer tool ?
<pitti> ogra: not that I know of
* ogra is slighly shocked by the UI
<ogra> my mother wouldnt be able to set up a printer with it (she was with edgy)
<pitti> ogra: it's a bit different than g-c-m, indeed
<pitti> ogra: OTOH you mostly don't need to worry any more, since printers are now automatically configured
<ogra> well, indeed
<seb128> GNOME guys are some bad comment on it as well
<ogra> but to me that looks really like an expert tool compared to the old one
<seb128> where the old UI was clean with only icon the new one is pretty tough
<pitti> ogra: Tim Waugh is very responsive, if you have some suggestions how to improve the UI, just file a LP bug
<pitti> yeah, it's a hard choice
<pitti> a tool that looks easy and is broken vs. a tool that looks complex and actually works :/
<ogra> pitti, make it look like g-c-m :) the UI was intuitive and very easy to understand
<ogra> where was it broken ?
<Fujitsu> Will most people ever have to touch much of s-c-m now?
<cjwatson> s-c-p
<ogra> i never had probvs with printing since warty ... neither anyone around me
<Fujitsu> cjwatson: Oops, yes.
<pitti> ogra: lots of bugs and crashes, unmaintained upstream for years
* Fujitsu finds g-c-m hangs a lot.
<pitti> ogra: and lacking features like automatically scanning for network printers, etc.
<pitti> ogra: and g-c-m doesn't provide the 'fully automagic printer configuration', which is a killer feature IMHO
<pitti> ogra: we made a couple of UI improvement suggestions to Tim already, and he implemented them very fast
<seb128> imho the new one is better
<seb128> we just need to make the UI nicer
<seb128> maybe add some icons
<ogra> yeah
<pitti> ogra: bug 132652 will help a bit, too, I think
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132652 in system-config-printer "Please select an appropriate default in the tree view" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132652
<pitti> ogra: (was fixed upstream yesterday)
<ogra> ah, cool
<pitti> so that people get the form they most probably want by default
<pitti> seb128: icons FTW! :)
<ogra> but really, probably mpt should have a look ...
<pitti> the tree view shuold probably be turned into a set of tabs (one per server) with icons for the printers in each
<pitti> and one tab for the local server settings
<ogra> i think there is way to much information everywhere its crowded ...
<pitti> it's quite a power tool indeed :/
<ogra> well, g-c-m had all that options (or many of them at least) somewhere as well but didnt look crowded
<pitti> and too much text
<pitti> ogra: I liked g-c-m's UI, too, but it just got unbearable; I guess that switch is painful, but we should aim at improving scp's UI now
<ogra> drop the tabs, make every printer an icon and have the individual optiojns availabe via right click
<tepsipakki> Treenaks: there's a new ati-version for you to try
<tepsipakki> Treenaks: same webdir
<cjwatson> whee avivo
* cjwatson gets a sensible resolution on his iMac
<cjwatson> still slightly odd swirly patterns and flickering though
<ogra> pitti, also why is there an apply button ?
<pitti> ogra: that should probably go as well, right
<tseliot> cjwatson, pitti, do you know why my patches haven't been accepted yet? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20/+bug/98641/comments/66  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20/+bug/98641/comments/67
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 98641 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 "[nvidia-glx-new]  NVidia driver missing libwfb" [High,Confirmed] 
<pitti> tseliot: just lack of time to look at them so far, I guess
<pitti> tseliot: now, with feature freeze behind us, we concentrate on bug fixing, so might happen soon now
<tseliot> pitti: is there something I can do to help or shall I just wait and see?
<pitti> tseliot: you can occasionally ask about the status in #ubuntu-kernel if the patches are tested and ready to be applied
<pitti> tseliot: there are so many bugs that the kernel team might have difficulties to track which ones are low-hanging fruits
<pitti> tseliot: but don't ping them too often, that distracts too much :)
<tseliot> pitti: thanks. I won't ping them at all ;)
<pitti> tseliot: oh, it's worth a try doing it once at least
<pitti> tseliot: I don't know how they prefer to mark such bugs
<tseliot> pitti: "mark such bugs"? because they affect proprietary drivers?
<pitti> tseliot: like setting them 'in progress' or assign them to someone in particular, etc.
<ogra> tseliot, because he doesnt know their workflow :)
<tseliot> pitti, ogra: ok
<norsetto> (sorry for the double request for MOTUs here) Would you guys say that this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34864/ is a MIT/Expat License? licensecheck reports it as unknown.
<cjwatson> norsetto: MIT-style and not a problem
<norsetto> good, just checking as is not in COPYING
<cjwatson> norsetto: it's not exactly the same but it's close enough for our purposes
<norsetto> cjwatson: yes, it seems pretty simplified, yet the spirit seems to be the same (a typical lawyer term, spirit ....)
<norsetto> do you want me to scare you?
<pitti> doko: simdmath> /usr/spu/{include,lib}? that's a weird path
<soren> infinity: You and mathiaz discussed the samba "net usershare" stuff, did you not?
<doko> pitti: no.
<doko> pitti: cross-build files
<pitti> StevenK: FYI, NBS slaughtered (in particular, kernel stuff and some obex package)
<Hobbsee> obex package?  i wonder if that was intentional
<pitti> Hobbsee: 'qobex'
<Hobbsee> pitti: ah. presumably kdebluetooth doesnt need it anymore
<StevenK> pitti: Nice, thanks.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Right.
<StevenK> pitti: I was just about to ask you to regen the list at your earliest oppurtunity, but I think the cronjob will beat you.
<Kmos> bug 134471
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134471 in sudo "sudo puts the clock back twenty days" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134471
<Kmos> what a strange thing
<\sh> Kmos, I don't think it's sudo
<Kmos> me too
<IntuitiveNipple> "sudo -k" or "rm -rf /var/run/sudo/username" usually solves that
<cjwatson> sudo doesn't contain any time-setting code AFAICS
<cjwatson> however I know the reporter and he's not in the habit of being on crack
<IntuitiveNipple> sudo stores a timestamp ,  -k clears it
<Spads> cjwatson: ah, so an occasional user?
<cjwatson> IntuitiveNipple: indeed but that is not the bug if you read more closely
<cjwatson> IntuitiveNipple: the complaint is that sudo [or something]  is messing with the system clock
<cjwatson> Spads: ha
<IntuitiveNipple> I can reproduce it here
<IntuitiveNipple> Feisty 32-bit
<cjwatson> pitti: I've uploaded a new d-i to dapper-proposed that bumps to the new kernel ABI in -security, which I forgot to do the other week; please consider?
<pitti> cjwatson: fine for me, but shouldn't we wait for the new -proposed kernel for dapper.2, too?
<cjwatson> pitti: probably, just seemed reasonable to bump it in case anyone's trying it now
<pitti> right, can't hurt, I just wanted to mention that there will be another one
<pitti> cjwatson: (accepted)
<cjwatson> ta
<pitti> iwj: how do you want to check if ldconfig is called from a maintainer script? checking /proc/$$PID/cmdline or something like that?
<iwj> pitti: dpkg now sets an env far for the benefit of dpkg-trigger, so it's trivial.
<pitti> iwj: ah, splendid
<bigon> mjg59: hi
<bigon> mjg59: I just see that you uploaded haze to debian
<ziith> hi guys
<ziith> i was wondering, what is the normal procedure for requesting a sotware to be packaged as an ubuntu package?
<norsetto> ziith: bug report
<Hobbsee> ziith: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing#head-f4c6048b1531f4e4fe48f096350ea435d40ed9f5
<seb128> who can grant main freeze exception nowadays?
<Hobbsee> seb128: release team
<seb128> I want to update pidgin from 2.1.0 to 2.1.1 (bug fix version, already in Debian)
<Hobbsee> seb128: sounds sane.
<seb128> do I need to file some bugs or something or can I just go and upload? ;)
<Hobbsee> seb128: i think you can just go and upload, actually.  you got my ack.
<seb128> thanks
<Hobbsee> seb128: but then, we've just been doing universe processes, and i've not been on the main team before.
* seb128 hugs Hobbsee
* Hobbsee hugs seb128 :)
<ziith> norsetto, Hobbsee: does this mean i will be expected to package it myself? In that case i will really need to brush up on my packaging skills.
<Kmos> ziith: if it's not in debian yet, yes :)
<Hobbsee> ziith: well, that's the quickest way to get it in.  otherwise you can file a bug with the needs-packaging tag, and hope someone feels like doing it at some point
<ziith> alright, thanks guys
<norsetto> ziith: if you can package, that the best obviously, but no, its not required
<bigon> seb128: wait a little bit before updating pidgin me and ari (debian maintainer) have made the split of libpurple out of the main package
<bigon> seb128: svn://svn.debian.org/svn/collab-maint/deb-maint/pidgin/branches/pidgin-split-purple
<seb128> bigon: I don't think we want to split the package during the freeze now
<bigon> seb128: right
<acm> hi, I have a problem with removing linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-9-generic. since the last release 2.6.22-8-generic there is a problem with removing this package. the post-removal script return 1. is there already a bug in lp?
<Hobbsee> acm: #ubuntu+1 for support
<acm> found a bug 122421 in lp for linux-ubuntu-modules. hope this problem will be solved asap.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122421 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 "Unable to purge package" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122421
<bigon> How can I do to make a package removed from the new queue? haze (uploaded by mjg59) was not made with the collaboration of the debian telepathy team. an other package for this software is waiting in the debian new queue
<Mithrandir> mjg59: ^^ ; can you work something out about this so we end up with one unified package?
<infinity> seb128: Bugs would be way too much overhead, just make sure the person you're asking has some modicum of authority to approve the upload.
<seb128> infinity: looks like I can just decide myself for desktopish updates then ;)
<infinity> seb128: I'd prefer if you didn't.
<seb128> I see
<infinity> seb128: Bouncing it off someone else, even if you know best, gives you the required 5 minutes to think about it.
<seb128> looks like you trust me to not screw :p
<infinity> seb128: I don't trust any of us to not screw up. :)
<seb128> ;)
<Lutin> hi there
<Hobbsee> infinity: oh, i must have forgotten that i dont actually count as part of the release team.
<infinity> Hobbsee: No, no.  You do.
<infinity> Hobbsee: I meant "don't go asking a random coworker to check it, then upload".
<Hobbsee> infinity: ah right.  couldnt tell which way you were inferring.
<infinity> Hobbsee: We have a longstanding history of asking the closest person we can find for a review, and then calling it "good enough".
<infinity> Hobbsee: Which, from the POV of release coordination, kinda loses.
<Hobbsee> infinity: ahhh.  how useful
<Hobbsee> indeed.
<Lutin> infinity: sorry to bother you with that but ... got some time to look into the loadlin thing ?
<infinity> Lutin: I do, but I don't.  Rather busy setting up some buildds right now.
<infinity> cprov: Can you help Lutin find his missing upload?
<infinity> cprov: If you're just as busy as I am, I can do it later.
<Lutin> infinity: no problem... can wait anyway
<tseliot> infinity: do you know why my patches haven't been approved yet? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20/+bug/98641/comments/66 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20/+bug/98641/comments/67
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 98641 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 "[nvidia-glx-new]  NVidia driver missing libwfb" [High,Confirmed] 
<cprov> infinity: Lutin: can you ping back in, let's say, 15 minutes ?
<Lutin> cprov: sure
<StevenK> infinity: libnss-db when you aren't busy? Maybe? :-)
<tseliot> infinity: the 2nd patch is for Gutsy. And the bug's importance is marked as "High".
<Hobbsee> tseliot: and the kernel team was on holidays last week, and they're getting to it...
<tseliot> Hobbsee: I didn't know. And mine wasn't a complaint. I wanted to make him notice that the bug affects Gutsy as well.
<Hobbsee> tseliot: but he's not in the kernel team. you'd do better in #ubuntu-kernel, etc
<tseliot> Hobbsee: oh, I thought that both he and BenC were in the kernel team
<Hobbsee> tseliot: you might be thinking of kylem
<tkamppeter> hi pitti
<tseliot> Hobbsee: thanks. I'll go bug kylem then ;)
<pitti> hi tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, it seems that the new cupsys (or something else in Gutsy) removes the admin (first) user from the lpadmin group, see bug 134503, bug 107766, and bug 132735, in the last one Paul Coleman's comment.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134503 in cupsys "cupsys 1.3 upgrade fails" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134503
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107766 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer adds menu item the same as gnome-cups-manager's menu item" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107766
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132735 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer says "Not published", "See server settings" after selecting "Share published printers connected to this system", until restarting the tool" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132735
<tkamppeter> pitti, in the first two the comments of neuromancer.
<soren> What needs to happen for a new task to show up in the tasksel in the installer?
<soren> openssh-server has been added to tasksel.
<soren> I would have thought a new d-i upload would be required, but tasksel is not a b-d of d-i?
<pygi> soren, I can see openssh-server in tasksel?
<soren> pygi: In the installer as well?
<soren> pygi: Tribe-5?
<pygi> soren, not installer (sorry), but newest upgrade, sure
<soren> pygi: Sure.
<mjg59> Mithrandir: I suspect the best would be to sync from Debian once there's something there
<Kmos> who's checking ubuntu-release ? for main freeze exception
<Mithrandir> mjg59: ok
<Kmos> bug 132405
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132405 in xterm "Please sync xterm (229-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132405
<Hobbsee> Kmos: most likely the ubuntu-release people, with all their other bugs...
* Hobbsee headdesks.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: just asking.. relax
<Hobbsee> Kmos: stupid questions get stupid answers.
<Hobbsee> and people bashing things
* highvoltage gives Hobbsee a chocolate
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: \o/
<pitti> tkamppeter: that seems very fishy to me; cupsys doesn't delete any groups from any user
<Lutin> cprov: ping ?
<cprov> Lutin: right
<cprov> Lutin: which binary are you looking for ?
<Lutin> cprov: loadlin i386. I fot a failed to upload mail
<Lutin> got*
<Kmos> can someone look at bug 132694
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132694 in ddclient "Please merge ddclient (3.7.3-2) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132694
<Kmos> because I'm not credible
<Kmos> :)
<cprov> Lutin: what does the emails says, can you send it to me (cprov@canonical.com)
<cjwatson> soren: doesn't need a new d-i upload, since tasksel isn't in the initrd
<cjwatson> soren: the tasksel upload should've been sufficient
<cjwatson> soren: provided of course that openssh-server.deb is actually on the CD
<Lutin> cprov: sure
<soren> cjwatson: The openssh-server is on the CD... Hmm... Which daily was promoted to Tribe-5?
<cjwatson> soren: check the version of tasksel on your CD
<mathiaz> soren: 20070823
<Lutin> cprov: just forwarded
<soren> cjwatson: Hmm.. Stupid question: How?
<cjwatson> soren: ls /cdrom/pool/main/t/tasksel
<mathiaz> soren: the seed was modified on late 20070822
<cjwatson> mathiaz: but I didn't upload tasksel until the next day
<mathiaz> cjwatson: the server cds were generated early in the day.
<cjwatson> when the seed *structure* is changed (as opposed to just changing the contents of an existing seed), tasksel typically needs to be refreshed against it
<cjwatson> mathiaz: indeed, I own the code containing the crontab
<cjwatson> they were generated before my tasksel upload landed
<mathiaz> cjwatson: Riddell triggered a manual build I think.
<cjwatson> you know this is so easy to check rather than arguing about it
<mathiaz> cjwatson: I've tested the server cd on my wednesday evening.
<mathiaz> cjwatson: totally.
<cjwatson> $ wget -q -O- http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/gutsy/tribe-5/gutsy-server-i386.list | grep tasksel_
<cjwatson> too old
<cjwatson> /pool/main/t/tasksel/tasksel_2.67ubuntu3_all.deb
<cjwatson> more recent dailies, if there are any yet, will have the fix
<soren> Yeah, it needed ubuntu4.
<soren> Ok, it's no problem then.
<soren> There's no bug, just bad timing.
<cprov> Lutin: the email is clear:
<cprov> 02:19:02 WARNING Upload was rejected:
<cprov> 02:19:02 WARNING    Unable to identify file lodlin16.zip (byhand) in changes.
<tkamppeter> pitti, perhaps the problem is elsewhere, in the user management, installer, update management, ...
<pitti> tkamppeter: maybe it's the infamous bug 26338 or so
<tkamppeter> pitti, who should we subscribe to this bug that he can check and fix that?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 26338 in gnome-system-tools "Adding a user to a group modifies other users' groups and passwords" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/26338
<pitti> tkamppeter: I followed up on the bug with some questions, but I have no idea ATM
<cprov> Lutin: we don't support zip custom uploads (I doubt, it was your intention at all)
<pitti> tkamppeter: we can try to reproduce it in vmware or so and narrow down the package which causes it
<tkamppeter> Strange is that such an old bug, marked as critical is not fixed yet.
<Lutin> cprov: humm weird, it got accepted for amd64
<pmatulis> i've found someone on launchpad that wants to help with improving the look of gnome-panel.  i should i direct him?
<cprov> Lutin: probably because the lodlin16.zip only built for arch-indep (i386)
<Lutin> cprov: the package is arch: i386 amd64, and I can't see anyting related to the arch in debian/rules
<tkamppeter> pitti, should we milestone bug 26338 for the beta?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 26338 in gnome-system-tools "Adding a user to a group modifies other users' groups and passwords" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/26338
<cjwatson> cprov: it's probably just never been uploaded to Ubuntu since the switch to soyuz
<cjwatson> cprov: it'll be an intentional custom upload in Debian
<cjwatson> Lutin: I'd just drop the dpkg-distaddfile from debian/rules
<cjwatson> so that that element doesn't appear in .changes
<Lutin> cjwatson: ok
<cprov> cjwatson: do we plan to support it too ?
<cjwatson> cprov: I doubt it
<cprov> cjwatson: how is it used in debian, users get the file from the archive directly ?
<cjwatson> cprov: I think it goes onto CDs for use by people who need it
<cjwatson> but we've never bothered with loadlin on our CDs, it's kind of old and crusty
<cjwatson> cprov: and yes, the file is copied into /tools/ in the Debian archive
<cprov> cjwatson: nahh, ok, maybe later, but it would be better modeled as another custom-upload-type (as a tarball too)
<cjwatson> cprov: has to be a zip for the benefit of windows users. if we mess around with the filetype there's no point
<cjwatson> cprov: it's entirely not urgent
<cprov> cjwatson: right, but it could be a zip inside a directory as a tarball ... but yet, technical issues later, we already have enough *issues* in our plates.
<AlinuxOS> hello, does Ubuntu (non graphical) installer use unifont fonts ?
* Hobbsee wonders who's archive day it is today
<soren> pitti, isn't it?
<AlinuxOS> I need to know for example, which fonts are used for cyrillic (non graphical) interface.
<Hobbsee> er, dont worry.  i cant read
<cjwatson> AlinuxOS: yes, unifont, as I believe we've informed you before
<pitti> Hobbsee: yep
<Hobbsee> pitti: sorry for the noise, i cant read.
<cjwatson> cprov: I fail to see how that would help, since the desired result is to copy the zip file without changes into a non-versioned location in the archive
<AlinuxOS> cjwatson, I remmember in the past there was no Georgian (console font) support...
<cjwatson> AlinuxOS: we went through that at great length
<AlinuxOS> but now http://www.unifont.org/fontguide/ georgian has 14 an 16 sized terminal fonts.
<cjwatson> you supplied a patch for unifont to add it
<cprov> cjwatson: it's just a certain 'cruft' required to re-use most the the custom-upload-parser code.
<cjwatson> ah, maybe not you, it was Gia Shervashidze
<AlinuxOS> the problem is that I can't visualise Georgian in terminal mode
<cjwatson> cprov: that code is not useful here
<cjwatson> cprov: it's designed for the /dists/$DIST/main/$FORMAT-$ARCH/ directories
<AlinuxOS> I have some directories in Georgian:  "New Directory" - " "
<cprov> cjwatson: yes, right, something much simpler could be used
<AlinuxOS> but I can't see them.
<cjwatson> what would the point of reusing that code be when all you actually need is shutil.copy?
<cjwatson> AlinuxOS: try 'sudo setupcon'
<AlinuxOS> cjwatson, 14 was designed by Gia Shervashidze, 16 was designed by me.
<cjwatson> I can only cite the changelog
<AlinuxOS> http://www.unifont.org/fontguide/ I'm mentioned here but it has no importance :)
<AlinuxOS> cjwatson, the problem is that I get rombs...not letters.
<AlinuxOS> cjwatson, I'll show you a screenshot...
<AlinuxOS> brbr
<cjwatson> I don't know what a "romb" is, unless you mean a "rhombus" which is more usually called a diamond in English
<ogra> but i guess he just means squares :)
<ogra> third dimension in console fonts is rare ;)
<Hobbsee> ogra: now that would be cool.  perhaps a task for hte compiz guys?
<ogra> GL console ?
<ogra> that'd be funny  :=
<ogra> :)
<Hobbsee> 3d console
<Hobbsee> 3d text, in a 3d console
<highvoltage> might be useful for installers.
<Hobbsee> *wobbly* 3d text, in a 3d console
<highvoltage> (in terms of accessibility)
<highvoltage> and for partitioners in d-i
<paran> it's a unix system, I know this!
<highvoltage> [ x ]  View my disks in a cube
<cjwatson> ogra: I understand a diamond as a two-dimensional shape
<cjwatson> ogra: compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhombus
<bwakkie> gutsy questions here?
<highvoltage> bwakkie: #ubuntu+1
<bwakkie> k
<ogra> cjwatson, oh, right i was "germanizing" that :) a diamond is a gem for me :)
<ogra> raute would be the common german name for it :) but rhombus would work too
<geser> seb128: thanks for processing the sync request but you synced to much in bug #133342
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133342 in zeroc-ice-csharp "[Sync request]  Sync zeroc-ice-csharp (3.2.0-2) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133342
<ion_> hobbsee: Make the text *always* scroll/print slowly, make it stridulate, add a few meaningless graphs and scrollers and voil: you have the Hollywood terminal.
<seb128> geser: we can only sync to the current version
<Hobbsee> ion_: neat!
<seb128> geser: I didn't notice they updated it meanwhile
<geser> seb128: but it's possible to sync from testing in theory?
<pitti> geser: yes, it is
<ion_> cjwatson: Hm. Perhaps he means he gets the  character, which perhaps happens to be shaped like a rhombus on his system.
<pitti> geser: with some manual hacking we can also sync any other .dsc
<seb128> geser: well the new version is not likely an issue there, sorry for the overlook
<geser> pitti, seb128: is there a way to make it more visible for you when a sync is not against unstable? to avoid such overlook in the future
<pitti> hm, not sure; big red "NOT FROM UNSTABLE"? :)
<seb128> geser: no, that was mentioned in the topic which is good enough
<seb128> geser: is there anything wrong with the unstable version? that's only a minor revision
<geser> seb128: I just looked at the new diff.gz and the new version build-depends on icestorm > 3.2.1 (we have 3.2.0-7)
<seb128> geser: either somebody need to update 3.2.0 as 3.2.1.is.3.2.0 or we sync icestorm
<geser> seb128: icestorm is build from zeroc-ice and there are 9 source packages starting with zeroc-ice.
<seb128> geser: well, it's an universe package, the new version is to debian, and there is several weeks before beta, I would say it should safe to sync those, that's only a minor version
<geser> seb128: I'll talk to motu-uvf how to proceed here
<seb128> geser: ok, thanks, sorry for the screwing
<seb128> all the syncs request are from unstable, I didn't notice the title change there
<AlinuxSOS> cjwatson, ping.
<soren> Are we still without java support on amd64 in mozilla based browsers?
<Lutin> cjwatson: so about loadlin, removing dpkg-adddistfiles would be ok ?
<cjwatson> Lutin: yeah
<cjwatson> it won't affect the .deb
<Lutin> cjwatson: ok, thanks :)
<cjwatson> AlinuxSOS: sorry, I have a phone call nowish and can't get into this; file a bug with your problem
<AlinuxSOS> cjwatson, ok... I understand... against which package ?
<cjwatson> I'm not entirely sure - console-setup?
<cjwatson> I'm assuming you're not actually talking about *in* the installer, but about in the console after install
<tkamppeter> In bug 134503 the privileged user got removed from the lpadmin group by an upgrade from Feisty to Gutsy, but this was not caused by the cupsys package. Which package it actually did I do not know. Who should I subscribe to this bug who could have knowledge to fix it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134503 in cupsys "Upgrade Feisty -> Gutsy: Privileged user not in "lpadmin" group any more" [High,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134503
<AlinuxSOS> cjwatson, both, because alternate installer has no Georgian interface too...
<AlinuxSOS> even if debian-installer is translated.
<cjwatson> AlinuxSOS: ok, file it on debian-installer to start with and include as much detail as you can bearing in mind that I don't read Georgian
<AlinuxSOS> cjwatson, ok ... thank you :)
<AlinuxSOS> I'll do it.
<cjwatson> thanks
<AlinuxSOS> cjwatson, thank you too.
<pitti> bye everyone
<lucky_lucas> Hello bryce
<lucky_lucas> hi bryce, I as you can notice, I experience some trouble with the ati driver
<ogra> Keybuk, sitll around ?
<ogra> *still even
<coNP> Seveas: may I bug you with an Ubuntu cloak issue?
<Seveas> coNP, sure, but not in here -- try a pm
<bryce> lucky_lucas: which specific bug?
<ogra> bryce, did you notice, openchrome works fine for me, just xv is missing it seems (got that with the cvs version i complied in feisty though)
<bryce> ogra: ah ok
<bryce> ogra, I didn't do the packaging on it, but perhaps it just needs a bit flipped
<bryce> I probably won't get a chance to look at it soon though - can you put in a bug report on it?
<ogra> will do
<ogra> who is woring on it ? kyle ?
<ogra> or did that move completely to your desk now ?
<bryce> superm1 did the packaging for it
<bryce> kees and I reviewed and uploaded it
<ogra> ah, k
<bryce> Mario Limonciello <superm1@ubuntu.com>
<superm1> hi :)
<ogra> yep, i remember :)
<bryce> heya superm1 :-)
<superm1> i wish i had functional hardware myself to test it on, so i could catch something small in testing it
<Treenaks> tepsipakki: the new ati deb works fine (except for my pet bug, but upstream is taking care of that)
<tepsipakki> Treenaks: excellent
<tepsipakki> now party ->
<Treenaks> tepsipakki: *\o/*
<bryce> tepsipakki, have you gotten much feedback on the xserver?
<lucky_lucas> bryce I'm back, I experience a freeze with ati driver and compiz enable
<bryce> Treenaks: was that the -ati in Gutsy, or the one on Tepsipakki's page?
<bryce> lucky_lucas: ah, which launchpad id#?
<lucky_lucas> I'm looking if it's already reported
<bryce> cool thanks
<lucky_lucas> I didn't do it in launchpad since you told me to contact alex  on the xorg mailing list
<bryce> ah that's right - look in the recent freedesktop.org bugzilla entries
<bryce> I'm still catching up with email &tc - did you get feedback from him on it?
<bryce> tepsipakki, wow, the testers on the Xorg Testers Needed forum are getting quite thorough in their tests!  :-)
<lucky_lucas> bryce it's not in launchpad would you like me to open a bug report
<bryce> tepsipakki, it sounds to me that the xorg-server upload is sufficiently tested
<bryce> lucky_lucas: yes please do
<lucky_lucas> ok I may need guidance to find the needed info
<bryce> sure
<lucky_lucas> Since it's not systematic
<lucky_lucas> It seems to be a problem of memory
<iwj> doko: Is there some neat trick to not spending five hours building glibc to make a trivial change to the debian/* rules stuff ?
<ScottK> iwj: Trick someone else into doing it for you.
<doko> DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=parallel=<n> ... or build on an architecture where not that many variants are built (for example lpia)
<iwj> doko: Hrm.
<doko> iwj: and nocheck is understood as well
<iwj> That might help.
<elmo> iwj: you can use ronne, unless you have better hardware locally
* calc notes that reminds him to reinstall his desktop machine with amd64 gutsy
<Keybuk> ogra: yup
<iwj> elmo: Is ronne really kickass then ?  Maybe I should do that.
<ogra> Keybuk, on ltsp clients i want to replace the shutdown in the ctrl-alt-del file from upstart with something more radical (reboot -fp) since we cant use normal shutdown there...
<ogra> Keybuk, would diverting the file in /etc/event.d be to evil ?
<elmo> iwj: no, it's pretty pedestrian these days, we have much better servers... but it's better than anything I have at home ;-)
<calc> iwj: from what i recall my box seems faster, may just be while using ccache though, i have a c2d 2.8ghz
<ogra> Keybuk, if so, do you have a suggestion ?
<ogra> (i think its a conffile)
<Keybuk> ogra: why can't you use normal shutdown?
<ogra> Keybuk, because several things die to early and we dont need shutdown at all (its all in a tmpfs we can just kill)
<Keybuk> eh?
<Keybuk> why not just make rc5 and rc6 empty and only call halt or reboot then?
<ogra> if nbd-client is gone my filesystem disappears ...
<ogra> hm, thats another option i didnt think about yet
<Keybuk> that would be the "right" way to do what you want
<ogra> as long as the scripts dont return on upgrade :P
<ogra> like in the startup levels ...
<Keybuk> you'd have the same problem with event.d
<ogra> not with a diverted file
<Keybuk> if the file was renamed
<Keybuk> and where the hell would you divert it to? :p
<ogra> ctrl-alt-del-ltsp ?
<Keybuk> that wouldn't stop it running :p
<ogra> where i call reboot -fp instead of shutdown -r -n
<Keybuk> then you'd have both reboot -fp *and* shutdown -r -n run when you pressed c-a-d
<seb128> Keybuk: could you look at bug #128257, it's on the sponsor lists of bugs for some time now
<ogra> oh, upstart has it hardcoded ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128257 in udev "Should include 'plugdev' group in permission.rules" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128257
<Keybuk> no
<Keybuk> your diversion would be making two jobs
<ogra> oh, crap, right
* ogra understands
<cjwatson> ogra: AIUI diverting conffiles is not legal anyway
<Keybuk> seb128: bogus and dangerous
<ogra> cjwatson, thast why i was asking for suggestions :)
<seb128> Keybuk: ok, would be nice to comment on the bug and unsubscribe main sponsors then ;)
<Keybuk> seb128: doing so
<seb128> cool
<ogra> and i think cleaning out the rc dirs is the easiest ... we have functions for that in ltsp aready
<ogra> Keybuk, thanks for the idea :)
<Keybuk> seb128: err, how does one unsubscribe somebody?
<seb128> Keybuk: you need to be part of the team
<seb128> I'm unsubscribing the sponsor team for you
<mr_pouit> seb128: are you ok with Lutin's proposed patch for evince?
<seb128> mr_pouit: looks ok, feel free to upload if it works fine for you
<mr_pouit> seb128: ok, thanks
<elmo> has anyone seen smake distclean go into what seems like an inf loop running it's configure-a-like?
<pygi> elkbuntu, smake as in schilly's make?
<tuxcrafte1> hello guys
<tuxcrafte1> is kbd-chooser part of the debian-installer package?
<tuxcrafte1> i got this bug: when using the net-install you can't not go back to switch the keyboard layout when you made the wrong choose
<tuxcrafte1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kbd-chooser/+bug/32940
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 32940 in kbd-chooser "installer, preselected langage - unable to change keyboard layout" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<cjwatson> tuxcrafte1: kbd-chooser is a package on its own, though d-i uses it. If you're using edgy or later, note that we now use console-setup instead.
* cjwatson -> dinner
<lucky_lucas> bryce: ping
<lucky_lucas> bryce  I need guidance to complete this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/134578
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134578 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "Open source ati driver freeze with compiz" [Undecided,New] 
<d3ce1t> anybody knows if Ubuntu will ship without Xorg 7.3?
<lucky_lucas> yes but xrandr 1.2 is in
<bryce> lucky_lucas: attach your /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log, and output from lspci -vvnn
<d3ce1t> then will continue with 7.2 but now with xrandr 1.2
<lucky_lucas> ok
<bryce> use the Xorg.0.log from immediately after a freeze, or Xorg.0.log.old
<tuxcrafte1> cjwatson: i use gusty with the net-install
<bryce> lucky_lucas: ahh, thanks for reporting that the same issue happens with 6.6.19x.  So it's not a regression, but an existing issue.
<lucky_lucas> you welcome, I'v been also using the 6.6.19x randr 1.2 and the issue was in too
<tuxcrafte1> cjwatson: i can't find the console-setup project
<evand> tuxcrafte1: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/console-setup
<lucky_lucas> bryce: Is any way to track the bug, the memory state etc...
<tuxcrafte1> evand: please tell me the steps you used to find it :-p
<tuxcrafte1> i went to home typed console-setup did a search
<evand> tuxcrafte1: That will only show upstream projects.  If you're going to file a bug in Ubuntu, you need to file it against the source package.  First go to launchpad.net/ubuntu, then type console-setup in the search box.
<tuxcrafte1> So now the dilemma: I got this bug: when using the alternate net-install you can't not go back to switch the keyboard layout when you made the wrong choose. Do i report it at console-setup, debian-installer or kbd-chooser?
<bryce> lucky_lucas: yes, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingXorg
<bryce> lucky_lucas: you could start with xrestop for monitoring memory usage
<lucky_lucas> Ok since it happens randomly, it seems to be a memory corruption or anything like that
<evand> tuxcrafte1: I've marked the existing bug as affecting console-setup as well.
<tuxcrafte1> evand: thanks, how can i check these kinds of tags?
<tuxcrafte1> evand: Affects
<tuxcrafte1> evand: found it
<tuxcrafte1> evand: it also affect debian-installer correct
<evand> tuxcrafte1: No, it's a separate package
<tuxcrafte1> evand: hmm
<ScottK> "Also affect" means also has the bug, not impacted by the bug.
<tuxcrafte1> looking for structure
<evand> tuxcrafte1: rather than flood the development channel with discussion about bug reporting and how to use launchpad, please join me in #ubuntu-bugs and we can continue there if necessary.
<tuxcrafte1> evand: indeed your write, the discussion when out of focus :-D I will be in the bug channel
<tuxcrafte1> s/write/right/
<evand> ok
* agoliveira oficially recognizes that packaging is a black-art and the guys who invented quilt will pay for that in after life :)
<coNP> :)
<Amaranth> quilt is awesome
<Amaranth> the only time it's annoying is when you don't know what files are changing (like rerunning autoconf) since you have to mark them
<agoliveira> Sure is. At least as a sexual toy because it fscking my brain already :)
<agoliveira> Really, I'm kidding, I'm probably just not used to it but so far I prefer cdbs.
<ogra> agoliveira, i'll join you in hunting the guys in afterlife, ping me if we're there :)
* agoliveira nods with a glean in the eye :)
<ogra> quilt is insane imho ... as if we hadnt enough complicated build systems ....
<pygi> :P
<ogra> but then i'm no cdbs fan either
<leks> anyone experiencing sound problems with latest updates too?
<leks> by sound problems i mean, everything "works", but i cant hear any sound
<leks> :-)
<plopix> is it possible to backport a lib in gutsy pbuilder on a feisty installation?
<bhale> do you mean backport a gutsy package to feisty?
<bhale> you'd need the gutsy source built in a feisty pbuilder
<plopix> bhale: yes I do
<ScottK> plopix: Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  Depends on how much things it depends on have changed.
<plopix> I need python-qt4 version 4.3 and can't find it anywhere. Does https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bug/131773 status mean that someone requested it, but no one had it done?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131773 in feisty-backports "Please backport python-qt4 4.3 for feisty" [Undecided,New] 
<cargohold> Hi all!
<ScottK> plopix: That's what it means.
<cargohold> I code apps on www.gadmintools.org .. do you have any requests ?
<Skiessi> hmm gui for a bittorrent tracker? ^^
<Skiessi> for reducing the server bandwidth usage.
<Skiessi> That's my only idea and I think it's a good one :P
<tuxcrafte1> can somebody explain to me what the difference is between these to files:
<tuxcrafte1> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/initrd.gz
<tuxcrafte1> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/386/ubuntu-installer/i386/initrd.gz
<zul> tuxcrafte1: im guess that one is for the generic kernel and one is for the 386 kernel
<Skiessi> that's my guess too
<finalbeta>  I wish to report a bug, My system freezes up about a minute after I hit the log-on screen (even if I log in). This with the TRibe 5 kernel, the previous one still works. What information should I add, and how do I get it?
<tuxcrafte1> zul: but why use the specific i386 folder at the end of the link? I gives the impression there both i386 and not i686
<tuxcrafte1> zul: with file do you think is used in the gutsy-alternate-i386.iso cd-image?
<zul> tuxcrafte1: not sure
<tuxcrafte1> ah i think i can check the file size
<tuxcrafte1> or do a checksum
<tuxcrafte1> questions marks are weaving around my head to figure out the ubuntu build structure :-D
<tuxcrafte1> the two files are definitely different but what is the difference :-D
<Skiessi> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/initrd.gz I recommend this one
<mastroDani> hi.. i think i found a bug: Ubuntu feisty (fresh install) - 1) Administrator -> Share Folders 2) install samba and nfs, as requested 3) add a new folder share. result: folder shared but no user to access it. if i try to access from another machine it ask for user/password, and the linux user/password isn't accepted.. this is the file created by the graphical tool.. http://pastebin.com/m74d8c9f8
<ion_> mastrodani: Better file it at launchpad.net.
<mastroDani> the result is that if i don't manually create an user (sudo smbusers -a name) i can't use the share... solution: auto-create users or add the tool to add some user
<mastroDani> ion_: yeah .. i know
<mastroDani> i don't have an account at launchpad
<ion_> Thats easy enough to fix. :-)
<mastroDani> can someone of you copy/paste it?
<Skiessi> just please fix that random crashing of firefox
<IntuitiveNipple> mastroDani: Have you tried sharing a directory outside the /home/ directory? By default samba has home shares disabled so that may be affecting your share
<mastroDani> IntuitiveNipple: no i didn't tried... may be.. i will check it tnx
<ion_> skiessi: Remove the proprietary flash plugin. Done.
<cargohold> ion_: yeah flash is evilly on the ms side that wants full disclosure of everyones HD's
<cargohold> How did Adobe vote on m$ ooxml btw ?
<cargohold> I hope they went against that pice of shit
<mastroDani> ion_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/134602
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134602 in gnome-system-tools "directory share with samba require manual user creation" [Undecided,New] 
<mastroDani> bye
* tuxcrafte1 is going to sleep, and take a few steps back form ubuntu for 2 days, I have seen to many unsolved bugs that i filled and checked 6 months ago, feeling down.
<cargohold> What idiot reported this one as a bug ? /LOL -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/134602
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134602 in gnome-system-tools "directory share with samba require manual user creation" [Undecided,New] 
<cargohold> A newbie user trying to share a folder with samba will end up with a not accessible share, cause when trying to access it will receive a request for user/password, and the
<cargohold> user/password doesn't exist (the Linux user/password isn't accepted)
<cargohold> So the claim is "Dont use GNU/Linux is you want to setup something secure" ?
<cargohold> is/if
<ion_> cargohold: That is not a very kind way to talk about someone else.
<cargohold> [mastroDani]  #debian-it #tremulous.ita #cdb-clan
<cargohold> ion_: sorry, i mean 'young at heart'
<cargohold> Maybe im too old to be here
<cargohold> Kidding :P
<cargohold> ion_: why did he /leave just after posting it you think :P
<ion_> cargohold: I dont really see how any of that is relevant. His concern is real. It would be a good assumption that the normal credentials would be used by default for directories shared via samba.
<cargohold> I hope im not talking to idiots (incase i am, im just coding things for you and sacrificing everything else)
<cargohold> ion_: ive talked to them in 2 channels now, beginning in samba... Trolls
<cargohold> tech
<cargohold> Do you know that dude or just guessing ?
<ion_> I wonder how i didnt realize sooner cargoholds a troll. It has been quite obvious from the start.
<cargohold> Naturally, you may kick me now
<cargohold> :=)
<cargohold> Ey, trolltech ?
<Ahrgvn> Eltele, do you job instead
<cargohold> ion_: i think people know who i am and what i do, what did you code btw ?
<Ahrgvn> ion_: Say "Ok"
<Ahrgvn> Otherwise we will force you to play trivia with us :=)
#ubuntu-devel 2007-08-25
<bryce> keescook: there's only one issue left before I will be comfortable turning bulletproof-x mode on.  There is a bug in gdm where it doesn't recognize after it starts FailsafeXServer, that it's in a failsafe mode, and it keeps attempting to restart X every minute
<bryce> keescook: I created a trivial demo of the bug and sent it to the gdm devel list, so am hoping to get a solution to that within a few days.  Guess we'll see.
<keescook> bryce: ah, does that need to be taught to gdm or upstart?
<bryce> gdm
<keescook> cool
<bryce> I dug through the gdm source code and followed how it handles the FailsafeXServer option.  I don't grok all the forks and display detection logic goo, but it feels like it's missing a couple checks for d->failsafe_server...  I'm just not certain where those checks fit
<bryce> I get the impression this is a gdm option that hasn't been much used
<bryce> wow - displayconfig-gtk made first-mentioned-feature in this piece:  http://news.com.com/Ubuntu+prepares+Gutsy+Gibbon/2100-7344_3-6204359.html
<keescook> bryce: xorg uploaded.  :)
<bryce> awesome, thanks
<keescook> no problemo
<bryce> new bulletproof-x photos:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/BulletProofX/
<ion_> Nice!
<tepsipakki> who
<tepsipakki> a
<tepsipakki> ti
<tepsipakki> red
<tepsipakki> ->
<mjg59> tepsipakki: Loss
<mneptok> te
<mneptok> psi
<mneptok> pak
<mneptok> ki
<tepsipakki> mjg59: hah!
<tepsipakki> sorry
<tepsipakki> ha
<tepsipakki> h
<tepsipakki> bryce: really? so maybe just upload the server then?
<tepsipakki> bryce: uploaded
<tepsipakki> ..and accepted
<tepsipakki> ->
<Mulder> what's the rationale behind not creating /dev/parport0 by default in feisty and possibly gusty and above?
<ion_> mulder: Do you have a parallel port? :-)
<Mulder> ion_, yes.
<LaserJock> ion_: what kind of question is that? ;-)
<LaserJock> lots of people have parallel ports
<Mulder> i cant think of many machines that dont
<ion_> laserjock: There are PCs with no parallel ports.
<LaserJock> ion_: sure some don't
<LaserJock> ah, I misunderstood your question
<ion_> mulder: Anything interesting about parport in the dmesg output?
<LaserJock> I was thinking you were saying that parallel ports where obsolete and nobody uses them
<Mulder> nothing interesting, just the usual detected parport thing
<Mulder> i mean it's not a big deal, i can just mknod a parport0 character device file myself
<ion_> mulder: Ok, so the parport module is loaded automatically on startup, right?
<Mulder> but it just seems odd to me it doesnt get created by default
<Mulder> yes
<Mulder> the system will even create lp0
<Mulder> heh
<Mulder> i figured it was a design feature?
<Mulder> maybe part of some /dev simplification projcet i dont know about heh
<ion_> mulder: dmesg | grep parport_pc
<ion_> mulder: For instance, here it prints [   34.380000]  parport_pc 00:0a: reported by Plug and Play ACPI
<Mulder> brb
<Mulder> no output from the parport_pc module even though it's loaded. there is only output from parport module
<ion_> mulder: Ok, perhaps theres some kind of an ACPI/PNP problem. Is the port enabled in the BIOS settings?
<Mulder> should be
<Mulder> parallel port is picked up in windows
<Mulder> by the tone of the discussion it sounds like it shouldnt be doing this heh
<Mulder> that's good to know at least, heh. thanks
<ion_> mulder: You probably should report a bug. Mention that parport_pc is loaded automatically but it doesnt recognize the port and that the port works in Windows, and attach the output of sudo lshw and dmesg.
<Mulder> ah
<Mulder> I have no idea how to file a bug report
<Mulder> launchpad i'm guessing?
<Mulder> there we go, bug report section in launchpad
<ion_> mulder: ubuntu-bug -p linux-image-$(uname -r) should open the correct webpage.
<Mulder> excellent thanks
<manchicken> Anybody know if there are stable apt bindings for Ruby or Python?
<manchicken> The python-apt package seems to be marked unstable on sourceforge.
<manchicken> Although I guess it is in the main repo...
<RAOF> And gnome-app-install uses them.
<manchicken> Gotcha.
<sbalneav> Hello.  Trying to squash Bug #134572.  How do I tell pbuilder to build the binaries so they have the debugging info in, so I can gdb the results?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134572 in nbd "Segfault" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134572
<stgraber> I have just done a Wiki to Ical converter for GutsyReleaseSchedule, for those of you who'd like to test, it's at : http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/release-ical/ubuntuical.php
<RAOF> Hm.  You know what would be cool?  A google calendar.
<highvoltage> ew.
<coNP> You can use this in Google. IIRC
<RAOF> Yeah, I know.
<RAOF> It can be imported, at least.
<realist> I have the ubuntu iCal imported/synced to google calendar, works a treat
<realist> (Especially since you can sync that with thunderbird/lightning)
<RAOF> realist: Can you sync (as in watch for changes?)
<RAOF> On the other hand, the number of changes are going to be minimal :)
<realist> RAOF: google watches for changes on via iCal I believe
<RAOF> Cool
<Utnubu> hi all
<Utnubu> Can anyone tell me why powernowd is still used when there are great kernel scaling governors?
<Utnubu> I am experimenting with powertop and powernowd seems to be one of the big tick consumers
<Utnubu> and ondemand works fine without powernowd
<RAOF> Utnubu: Wow, you must have a highly-tuned system.  On my x86-64 laptop powernowd is responsible for <1% of all wakeups
<Utnubu> Not highly tuned but powernowd was one of the first places
<RAOF> I suppose my lack of tickless may influence this.
<Utnubu> It seems fine now except that hpet isn't activated
<Utnubu> RAOF: Afaik powertop makes not much sense without tickless.
<RAOF> You can still get useful data.  It's just that you've lost one of the big optimisations.
<Utnubu> It really seems to help with energy saving but on my Sony laptop one thing is missing without recompiling the kernel. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22/+bug/117327
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117327 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 "Sony TX series and possible many other Sony laptops couldn't use the lowest brightness setting" [Undecided,New] 
<Hobbsee> RAOF: oh neat, powertop has suggestions now
<elena_g> Hello, my Audio Device is: "00:06.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP55 High Definition Audio (rev a2)", and I can't get working my microphone for skype or Ekiga...
<Hobbsee> elena_g: support is not here, please see the /topic
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Yeah, has for *ages*.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: i  havent run it since it first got synced.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: are htey any good?
<elena_g> Hobbsee, sorry then :) kiss!
<RAOF> Not terribly for me, but that's because the biggest optimisations are out-of-bounds, I think.
<Hobbsee> right
<RAOF> Hobbsee: The biggest suggestion it doesn't give is "kill pulseaudio".  Pulseaudio uses somewhat more than 10% of my total power when it runs.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: right, yeah.  you could use arts....
* Hobbsee ducks
<RAOF> Or just ALSA, my card actually has a mixer :)
<norsetto> !support
<ubotu> the official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
<norsetto> !jdongcrack > hobbsee
<Hobbsee> !jdong | norsetto
<ubotu> norsetto: jdong is Hobbsee: jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<norsetto> is the > not working?
<norsetto> !jdong > hobbsee
<Hobbsee> norsetto: that is too
<norsetto> ok, so its an IM
<norsetto> !jdong > norsetto
* norsetto search for interesting factoids ....
<norsetto> !search * > norsetto
<ubotu> Found: fawn, ops-#xubuntu-offtopic, usetab, music players, kde docs, prefix, grubrepair, debchroot, swat, ttys
<dzs> how would the /etc/apt/source.list line "deb http://www.hu.freepascal.org/lazarus/ lazarus-stable universe" translate into an URL, please?
<tseliot> dsz: ftp://ftp.hu.freepascal.org/pub/lazarus/
<Chipzz> dzs: this is not the right channel for this kind of questions
<Chipzz> tseliot: no
<Chipzz> dzs: but if you want to know, run apt-get update while runnig some kind of sniffer?
<Chipzz> urlsnarf from dsniff will be helpfull
<StevenK> apt-get has a --print-uri or --print-uris option.
<Chipzz> StevenK: I think that only works for packages
<StevenK> Chipzz: "This also works with the source and update commands."
<StevenK> From apt-get(8)
<dzs> i dont want to know how to use apt-get. i dont use ubuntu
<Chipzz> StevenK: oh, it does
<dzs> and what could be the right place to ask then how dpkg internally resolves the sources.list into URLs?
<tseliot> Chipzz: I thought the repo was browseable
<StevenK> dzs: http://www.hu.freepascal.org/lazarus/dists/lazarus-stable/universe, I think
<Chipzz> dzs: it's not dpkg that does it, obviously
<StevenK> lazarus-stable/binary-<arch>/universe, actually
<dzs> StevenK: you rock. thanks!
<Chipzz> StevenK: you're correct
<Chipzz> StevenK: err no :)
<Chipzz> http://www.hu.freepascal.org/lazarus/dists/lazarus-stable/ ;)
<StevenK> Right. :-)
<Chipzz> http://www.hu.freepascal.org/lazarus/dists/lazarus-stable/universe/binary-i386/ :)
<StevenK> Ahh
<norsetto> but if he wants the package, isn't that in pools?
<Chipzz> norsetto: the layout of a repository can vary wildly
<StevenK> It doesn't have to be. Depends on what Packages.gz says.
<norsetto> ok, I assume they use the Debian layout
<norsetto> its pool actually :-)
<frafu> Hello, Could anybody please check whether at-spi-registryd is running at gdmlogin (= plain login screen)? I would like to know whether it is a problem in ubuntu or only a problem with my setup. Thanks in advance.
<IntuitiveNipple> Anyone know which gnome start-up script is likely to handle the Log-In sound (settings are in ~/.gnome2/sound/events/gnome-2.soundlist) but using inotifywait & lsof I can't capture the process that is accessing it
<Q-FUNK> howdy! for bug #130620 what is the correct procedure?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130620 in myspell-lv "Please sync myspell-lv (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130620
<evand> If anyone that can sponsor an upload to main has a free momeent and would like to do me a favor, the mythbuntu team would like to see ubiquity 1.5.12 uploaded by the end of the weekend so they don't have to use a PPA:
<evand> http://people.ubuntu.com/~evand/upload/ubiquity_1.5.12_source.changes
<plopix> I am trying to backport python-qt4 from gutsy to feisty using pbuilder. python-qt4 has an unmet dependency to libqt4. Is it possible to include a successfully backported libqt4 package in a pbuilder run to satify the dependcy for python-qt4?
<nixternal> plopix: what is the unmet dependency version? does it have something like (>= 4.3)?
<nixternal> libqt4 in feisty is 4.2.1 I believe
<plopix> nixternal: yes.
<nixternal> change the >= 4.3 to 4.2 and it should fix your problems...err, actually no it probably won't
<plopix> and it tells me that it has unsatified depdencies
<nixternal> I think the python-qt4 is also 4.3 in gutsy, so you would have to backport all of the libqt4 packages as well
<plopix> thats what I wrote, I think ;)
<nixternal> ya you did :)
<nixternal> maybe if I learned how to read :)
<plopix> what I do not know is, how to tell pbuilder to use some local packages
<beuno> plopix: maybe just install the backported library and save the pbuilder enviroment?
<beuno> open it up with --save-after-login
<nixternal> plopix: pbuilder allows you to use an alternate repo (ie. locally) and build hooks
<plopix> the pbuilder howto says, that can use --othermirror "deb file:///bla/bla feisty" for that purpose
<moyogo> ArneGoetje: ping
<davmor2> Don't want to report this as a Bug if it is meant to happen, but the printer applet stays in the task bar after the print job has finished.  Is this normal behaviour or should I bug report it?
<dobey> it's probably normal behavior, but not desirable behavior
<davmor2> dobey: Bug it is then.
<supervillain> Hi, does any of the gutsy applications where compiled with xcb?
<davmor2> Is there any technical reason why 'libburn' is no longer install with brasero?
* pygi hides
<pygi> davmor2, libisofs was dropped as well
#ubuntu-devel 2007-08-26
<davmor2> pygi: yeah that all part of the same suite though isn't it? along with cdrskin
<pygi> davmor2, part of same project, that is true
<davmor2> pygi: why was it dropped?
<pygi> davmor2, I'd rather not discuss it since it wasn't me who dropped it
<pygi> one of the reasons might be that lead developer of Brasero (Phillipe) who supported libburnia a lot has less and less time to work on it, and one more folk has joined
<pygi> so he isn't actually properly maintaining the backend for libisofs/libburn, and he prefers dead projects
<pygi> davmor2, enough arguments? :)
<davmor2> Yes thanks just wondered.  So brasero will still work fine with the nautilus burn is that correct?
<pygi> I don't know how it works, sorry
<davmor2> np
<pygi> I have no intentions to fix software that isn't maintained
<pygi> I know that Phillipe was talking something about removing n-c-b dependency
<davmor2> :) fair enough
<pygi> davmor2, any more questions? :)
<pygi> davmor2, anyway, I hope to make Brasero obsolete (i.e. I'll have a better app ;))
<davmor2> oh oh oh when :)
<pygi> no promises of anything
<pygi> but I know it will support libburn & libisofs fully
<davmor2> pygi: :) it's sounding good already.  Let me know if you need it testing
<pygi> davmor2, it'll take some time to get it to testing phase :P
<pygi> we're currently playing with some mockups ideas, /me believes in high usability applications
<davmor2> pygi: I did say if I could of said when :P
<pygi> ok ok :D
<pygi> davmor2, I'll poke you to comment on mockups when I think they're ready tho :p
<pygi> davmor2, feel free to hangout in #libburn
<manchicken_> Any pythoners about?
* Hobbsee slithers
<superm1_> hey Hobbsee you about?
<Hobbsee> superm1_: yes
<superm1_> would you be able to sponsor a ubiquity upload that evand posted earlier?  He was looking for someone with main upload rights
<superm1_> http://people.ubuntu.com/~evand/upload/ubiquity_1.5.12_source.changes
<superm1_> probably ~9 hours ago he posted it, but according to gutsy-changes no one has taken it
<Hobbsee> evand: ping
<Hobbsee> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<superm1_> Hobbsee, according to my scrollback, it was at 18:21 UTC
<Hobbsee> superm1_: thanks
<Hobbsee> oh, is ee
<Hobbsee> superm1: done
<superm1> thx Hobbsee appreciate it :)
<superm1> Hobbsee, when i dput an SRU, its still 'dput ubuntu blah.changes' just the target release in debian/changelog will be say feisty-proposed, correct, no where special to dput?
<Hobbsee> superm1: correct
<bbengs> hello all, new to ubuntu here
* Hobbsee waves
<bbengs> need some help with WPA, can anybody help me?
<Hobbsee> #ubuntu for support
<bbengs> thanks
* Hobbsee curses apport
<IntuitiveNipple> What would be the implications of reverting to gnome-session 2.1.18 (as is in Feisty) ? See bug #129029
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129029 in gnome-session "[Gutsy Tribe-5]  No Sound on Login Screen or during Login" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129029
<evand> Hobbsee: pong
<Hobbsee> evand: hiya.  ubiquity uploaded
<evand> thanks!
<Hobbsee> evand: no problem :)
<thully> Hobbsee - ping
<Hobbsee> You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<Hobbsee> thully: hi, what's up?
<thully> hi, I was the one on the mailing list...
<Hobbsee> ah!  welcome!
<thully> I saw your response and replied - thanks.
<Hobbsee> thully: no problem.  what were you interested in working on?
<thully> Well, basically I have a few issues with the way the default system is configured...
<thully> I mentioned the total lack of reasonable iPod support as being one thing - meaning sync, transfer, etc
<Hobbsee> oh, sec, let me read the new emails on that thread
<thully> OK - no sense going through what I said again.
<thully> Just please don't flame me - I know I'm just a random user...
<ScottK> thully: Random flaming is not, in general, the Ubuntu way.
* Hobbsee wonders what gtkpod is
<Hobbsee> !info gtkpod
<ubotu> gtkpod: manage songs and playlists on an Apple iPod. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.99.8-0ubuntu3 (feisty), package size 528 kB, installed size 2220 kB
<ScottK> In Ubuntu the flaming is more specific and focused.
<thully> OK - well, I just experienced it in a response to a question I posted to devel-discuss.  Apparently off-list, though I didn't notice that until too late
<ScottK> That's aytypical and I hope you don't think it's always that way.
<Hobbsee> wow, gtkpod is small.
<Hobbsee> thully: would just including gtkpod solve the problem of the IPOD mess, or would one need to switch to banshee too?
<thully> yes, but it is somewhat hard to use.
<thully> Hence, switching to Banshee - unless the rhythmbox have any plans to fix their iPod issues this century - is preferable
<Hobbsee> fonts you should take up with bryce, and he can repoint you
<Hobbsee> 3) wont happen
<thully> OK
<Hobbsee> and the last point...you've got the wrong idea.
<Hobbsee> you must have missed the specs stuff from UDS - it is public, and people can talk - there's VOIP and such in there
<Hobbsee> of course, the powers that be within canonical are going to be picking teh stuff that they want to see the developers that they pay to work on.
<Hobbsee> those who are not paid by canonical, however, can do whatever they like.
<thully> OK, though I'm unlikely to travel several hundred miles (much less several thousand) to attend one of these conferences..
<thully> (or km)
<thully> :)
<Hobbsee> thully: you've heard of VOIP, i take it?
<thully> yes - voice over IP
<Hobbsee> then you'd know that if all goes well, they have that in the conference rooms at UDS, so you can listen/speak with that.
<thully> cool...
<Hobbsee> which would not require going in there :)
<thully> yeah - that's good to know...
<thully> I'm still concerned that there is too much going on Ubuntu that is behind closed doors (or mailing lists) - the business of the technical board especially
<Hobbsee> youd' really have to take that up with the tech board, but i doubt there's terribly much going thru there
<thully> I guess I see debian-devel with 50 messages a day, and see Ubuntu's equivalents with 2 and wonder what's going on...
<thully> I just picture some closed "core development" mailing list or people in cubicles at canonical doing the main core work internally
<Hobbsee> thully: i dnot htink that happens
<Hobbsee> but then, i dont work for canonical, so i dont know for sure :P
<thully> OK
<Hobbsee> thully: you'd find it's mroe busy towards the beginning of the cycle, and such, i suspect.
<Hobbsee> we've passed feature freeze
<thully> yes, I can see that...
<thully> Just had my connection reset by that darned Peer :)
<Hobbsee> mmm.../me goes and murders peer
<thully> Is there any way to make that happen less?  It seems to be every 30 min or so when I use IRC
<Hobbsee> fix your connection?
<thully> I guess I didn't figure it was broken.  I'll be on a better connection in a week or so, though (school connection)
<Hobbsee> it's either that or freenode throwing a fit
<thully> This connection is pretty bad, though, compared to most - it's satellite.  Makes me want to scream when using Launchpad - HTTPS is ultra slow.  Beats dial-up, though...
<Hobbsee> urgh
<Hobbsee> yeah
<thully> next week, I'll be on a 50Mbps connection at school
<Hobbsee> i'm jealous.
<thully> anyway, I'm curious - why Ubuntu for you?  Why not Debian, or some other distro...
<Hobbsee> for me?
<Hobbsee> i like ubuntu, i like the community
<Hobbsee> i like how i can get stuff done
<Hobbsee> oh, and i dislike rpm hell.
* pygi eats Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hey!  i dont wish to be eaten!
<thully> rpm hell - exactly why I won't touch anything that doesn't use debs (as far as Linux distros go - I have been mostly OS X for a few years but want back in to the OSS world)
<Hobbsee> and being able to touch whatever is good
<Hobbsee> without the whole "maintainer lock" thing.
<thully> I see - that's why you don't like Debian, it has the "maintainer" concept
<Hobbsee> you asked why i do stuff on ubuntu, rather than another distro
<Hobbsee> you never asked which distros i like, or dislike
<thully> yes
<Hobbsee> there is a difference
* Hobbsee does occasionally get stuff uploaded to debian too
<thully> well, most others have maintainers as well...
<thully> I wasn't saying you disliked Debian, necessarily...
* Hobbsee thought dont like == dislike
<Hobbsee> but ignoring semantics....
<thully> I meant "like Ubuntu more than Debian"
<Hobbsee> ah, yes, true
<Hobbsee> it's cool how we can actually implement a change across the whole distro, without 3 miles of red tape.
<ScottK> And have an actual supported/stable release every 6 months.
<thully> As for me, I've spent this summer torn between Ubuntu and Debian - I like Ubuntu's focus on usability (especially if one has to - heaven forbid - use a non-free driver), but Debian has seemed more open and I like their stability
<Hobbsee> ScottK: that part is nice, too
<nixternal> ScottK: couldn't sleep :)
<thully> Honestly, I don't mind the Debian release cycle, but I'd like to be able to update major components in between releases without doing a whole system update
<xtknight> there are the backports
<Hobbsee> one day, maybe someone will make a fork of debian that works that way - because there some demand for that.
<xtknight> i guess you could backport main components but i dont know why you would want to
<StevenK> Speaking as a Debian developer, I hate the politicing that Debian has fallen to.
<Hobbsee> xtknight: not for big components - they say no (thank goodness)
<xtknight> every 6mo you get a breath of fresh air with all the new gnome and main components
<StevenK> I like the community, and what Hobbsee said. Doing large changes without having to placate 16 developers and co-ordinate with them.
<thully> StevenK: can you elaborate about your politicing comment?
<thully> I guess my general comment is that - especially in the Debian case - it seems one may want to update just a few components without updating the whole system
<xtknight> thully,  using newer components on a ~stable base will make it unstable, right?  is this not what you're after?
<realist> I believe the politicing has been avoided in part, by the fact Ubuntu's project leader is a sabdfl :-)
<StevenK> thully: It seems that Debian has fallen to using politicing to gain (or conversely, lose) favour with certain maintainers. The whole thing about certain maintainers will say "STFU, I'm not changing my mind, and if you want to force me, GR it."
<minghua> thully: Depending on which components we are talking about.
<realist> thully: Debian is a so-called democracy
<realist> StevenK: some developers seem more focused on politicing than actually getting stuff done
<StevenK> Agreed, but they would be the silent minority
* TheMuso thinsk he will chime in here with his views.
<realist> StevenK: you mean... vocal minority? people who get stuff done, would be less vocal
<supervillain> does politicing means hypocrity?
<realist> supervillain: no
<TheMuso> I appreciate the time saved by using Ubuntu, and finding all my hardware just works. I also like the fact the community is a lot easier to get into, and get involved with.
<TheMuso> I also have a dislike with the Debian new maintainer procedure, in that it takes ages.
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, i forgot that one.
<TheMuso> hense why I haven't applied yet.
<realist> Hobbsee: I can see the potential for the lack of "maintainer lock" to cause qa issues
<xtknight> ubuntu = good parts of debian used to the advantage of the average user
<thully> I guess I was finding the opposite, though I figure I must have just run into some good Debian developers and bad Ubuntu developers (at least for first impressions)
<xtknight> for the advantage*?
<Hobbsee> realist: which is why the bar to MOTU is quite high, to make sure we only get people who can make sane decisions about what they're doing.
<TheMuso> And one of the debian maintainers I work with can be a bit of a pain at times.
<realist> Not that I can qualify that statement... without some empirical evidence... yet
<Hobbsee> thully: keep in mind - the ones doing lots of developing arent responding to random maisl on the mailing list.
<StevenK> TheMuso: That's a terrible thing to say about me.
<StevenK> TheMuso: :-P
<Hobbsee> thully: and some of the ones who are replying as "developers' dont actually have upload rights - nor am i sure how much they actually contribute (as there's sponsorship stuff too)
<TheMuso> StevenK: heh. How dare you falsely accuse me of being a bastard!
<StevenK> Muahaha
* TheMuso should really do the minutes from last night's meeting.
<thully> Hobbsee: I know that, with regards to the Ubuntu list.
<TheMuso> erm... Friday night.
<realist> TheMuso: I've not applied for new maintainer either... because I feel that my application would get swept under the carpet
<TheMuso> realist: I don't feel that, it would just take too long, and since I can do so much in Ubuntu, I'd likely loose interest.
<Hobbsee> realist: then again, some of the debian maintainers have no clue WTF they're doing, so cause qa issues themselves, too...
<realist> The debian AM seem far too busy to bother getting them all delt with
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Aint that the truth. Too many times I have seen crackful packaging files./
<TheMuso> For example, I think I've seen one or two packages that don't even use debhelper to build.
<realist> TheMuso: that's what I mean though... seems that they aren't serious about attracting new developers
<realist> TheMuso: how recent are these packages?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: do i want to ask what they use to build instead?
<TheMuso> realist: I am in no real position to comment about that, but I am sure people would disagree.
<Hobbsee> or would i prefer to live in blissful ignorance?
<realist> Hobbsee: deprecated tools I would assume
<xtknight> checkinstall :)
<Hobbsee> xtknight: that would fail the archive.
<Hobbsee> tests
<xtknight> aww
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Well, standard copy/chmod/cd/mkdir/etc commands
<realist> TheMuso: just from an outsiders perspective
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ahhhh.  yes, well, that's probably not surprising
<xtknight> well when i begun making debs i used to use checkinstall, then modify the control files to look a little more sane.  but this was only in the beginning
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: seeing as debhelper requires things like copy
<StevenK> xtknight: DIE
<xtknight> these were personal debs not anything uploaded :P
<Hobbsee> xtknight: ewwww
<TheMuso> If you use checkinstall, you should be using slackware.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Actually, copy() is a Perl-ism
* RAOF was saved from checkinstall by it's inability to run on amd64
<TheMuso> Now theres a distro with absolutely shite standards.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: checkinstall was more fun when it kept segfaulting
<Hobbsee> damned StevenK.
<RAOF> :)
* StevenK feigns innocence.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you cant.  your name and key was used for the upload that fixed it.
<thully> I guess Slackware's standards are pretty much "whatever Pat Volkerding wants"...
<TheMuso> thully: Indeed.
<thully> If he says "No GNOME", than no GNOME it is!
<thully> (that is, of course, a real example...)
<TheMuso> Yet he claims that his "package management tools" keep you from dependency hell.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I know. I can try ...
<thully> what are those tools - tar zxvf?  Pretty much...
<TheMuso> thully: Yes.
<TheMuso> Wrapped in some bash scripts.
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Hum. A personal mail asking me to update Gnucash.
<RAOF> Score!
<TheMuso> heh
<thully> fscking Peer!
<RAOF> Actually, I'd like an updated gnucash.
<StevenK> RAOF: Then update it, dear Henry. :-P
<RAOF> StevenK: Exactly what I was leading up to :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Heh
<RAOF> What I'd like *even more* is for the CBA to offer a non-broken export format from netbank.
<Hobbsee> dream on.
<Hobbsee> CBA is broken in konqueror, too.
<StevenK> And this is why I went to Westpac ...
<wolfe> heh Gnucash
<StevenK> Even though my mother works for CBA
<wolfe> people actully use it?
<RAOF> An export format, I might add, that was never meant as an export format, and has been explicitly disendorsed by its designers.
<RAOF> But, oh no.  We couldn't implement a standard, that would be sane </bitter>
<wolfe> RAOF: you want insane, look at EDI
<RAOF> EDI?
<wolfe> "instead of implementing a sane communication later for people to submit their content, lets use a 15 year old outdated method"
<wolfe> The EDI interface, or Electronic Data Interchange, is an interface that will allow an external system such as Echo, Qualifax, CMHC, and the like to pump data into AKAIMS for state and federal reporting
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/134840
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134840 in ubuntu "Ubuntu should open yelp at first boot after install" [Undecided,New] 
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.
<Hobbsee> oh.  dear.
<wolfe> ...
<StevenK> Heh. That was only five minutes.
<wolfe> why in the world would it open yelp after first boot?
<Hobbsee> wolfe: it gets better, read teh report
<StevenK> thully: If you're using a DW6000, it needs to be fixed.
<wolfe> I'm going to comment on it
<wolfe> tahts just stupid
<Hobbsee> serioulsy, does *anyone* do the guided start tour on XP?
<thully> I'm using an HN7000S
<Hobbsee> last i checked, it was quite easy to find yelp
<wolfe> someone please set it to E_WONTFIX
<StevenK> thully: Ugh. Send it back. :-)
<RAOF> wolfe: One of my friends is implementing Tasmania's new driverss licence system, and it's a similar situation.
<StevenK> Wait. Tasmania have cars?
* StevenK hides.
<Hobbsee> wolfe: done
<minghua> I can't believe the first reply to #134840 is "I agree"...
<thully> StevenK: any known Peer-resetting issues with the HN7000S?
<Hobbsee> yeah...
<StevenK> thully: It actually maybe the service you're using, as opposed to the satellite receiver.
<StevenK> I know of at least one service over here that does not like long running TCP connections.
<thully> well, I don't have any issues surfing the web...  but that doesn't have long-running TCP connections
<StevenK> (Where long running is something that takes longer than, say an average webpage to load)
<thully> I'll be on my school connection next week, though - no more satellite issues and FAP for me...
<StevenK> thully: Oh, I get it. You or someone else complain about it, and it drops out.
<StevenK> :-P
<thully> For those who don't know, FAP = fair access policy.  Basically, if you download more than 425MB in a day or so, they cut your speed dramatically
<StevenK> 425Mb in a day? I can download that in a few hours.
<StevenK> I do, actually, when my mirror syncs.
<thully> it really sucks, but less so than 28.8 dial-up - at least there's a period between 3-6am where they let you download as much as you want
<StevenK> But only if the TCP connections last less than five minutes?
<thully> no - those downloads work fine.  I grab Ubuntu ISOs then
<StevenK> In which case, you need to IRC between 3 and 6 am. :-P
<thully> Anyway, I have to go - it's some ungodly hour here.  I'm still undecided regarding Ubuntu vs. Debian (I've heard both sides), but I may be back here in the future - hopefully when I'm on a better connection...
<wolfe> I dislike ignorant people :/
<wolfe> so I posted a reply to bug 134840 :P
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134840 in ubuntu "Ubuntu should open yelp at first boot after install" [Undecided,Won't fix]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134840
<wolfe> bah
* wolfe beats ubotu with a mouse
<thully> StevenK: only 1 hr to go until then :)
<StevenK> Heh
<thully> Anyway, this channel has had a distinctly different impression than that RTFM flame I got yesterday
<thully> regarding Ubuntu
<xtknight> thully, i'm a bit confused, what's the end goal here (the debian vs ubuntu stuff)?
<Hobbsee> thully: oh, and ubuntu has a code of conduct, and i'm not sure about debian.
<xtknight> s/bit confused/confused
<thully> I guess I'm looking to help out with/develop/package/test a distribution, and I'm unsure whether to do debian or Ubuntu
<Hobbsee> bear in mind though - this is a weekend - so we're all less on topic today
<wolfe> flamers can see the door after a /kb hits them going out ;)
<xtknight> thully, maybe you want to start coding the projects you mentioned on ubuntu-devel?  or get together a group to get them done? : )
<realist> I'm currently undecided about which distro to invest time in also
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Not really.
<thully> yes, maybe...
<wolfe> realist: invest time in Ubuntu ;)
<thully> I like that Ubuntu makes it easy to install things even if you need (HORROR) a non-free driver
<realist> I'm actually leaning towards Debian... since that's the mother distro :-)
<wolfe> realist: well it depends wether you want to work on the user side or the system side
<realist> I figure my work could filter to Ubuntu anyway
<xtknight> i think your improvements are better suited to desktop/avg. users so ubuntu makes more sense..
<Hobbsee> realist: indeed.  and that's why i dont think it's an either/or thing.
<Hobbsee> realist: incidently, a lot of the devs contribute to both directly
<xtknight> people in debian might still want to use /dev/this instead of have a gui to sync their ipod.
<wolfe> realist: if you want to perfect the user xp, ubuntu. I fyou want to fix up the system side(apache, rdb,s, etc), debian
<Hobbsee> wolfe: for the latter half, push it to debian, and then make sure it gets back to ubuntu too
<Hobbsee> seeing as bits are ubuntu specific as well
<wolfe> yeah
<thully> Working on fixing bug #1 is an interest of mine, and I'm afraid Debian is more concerned with other things
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<realist> What if I wanted to perfect the user experience for sysadmins?
<Hobbsee> realist: then do it in boht distros
<wolfe> realist: sysadmin with users or dcs?
<wolfe> DCs
<Hobbsee> realist: assuming that debian will accept your patches.
<Hobbsee> realist: it wouldnt be hard to get involved with the ubuntu server team, for one thing
<realist> Well, I'm a UNIX admin in a software dev team by occupation
<realist> Hobbsee: thats where I'd end up, if I were to contribute
* wolfe uses ubuntu on plenty of his servers..
<Hobbsee> right
<wolfe> though at DCs, I do tend to use FreeBSD :)
<thully> yeah, I guess I see Ubuntu as the distro more suited towards me - I've just got this lingering fear that users like me can't do much of anything outside the "universe"
<realist> We use mostly OpenBSD
<Hobbsee> thully: well, for upload rights, it's universe first.
<Hobbsee> thully: but better to contact the devs who are working on the bits that you'r einterested in - they're good at accepting good patches.
<wolfe> OpenBSD++
<wolfe> funny when OpenBSD wrote in the random memory allocation, then everyone else wanted it
<wolfe> Vista has it now :)
<realist> They've got encrypted swap by default now too
<StevenK> And when you have to communicate with Theo, I'll laugh.
<wolfe> Theo is fine with me :)
<realist> wolfe: ditto
<wolfe> don't be a dumbass or say something stupid and you'll be fine.
<StevenK> Or do *anything* that makes him think less of you. I've read some of his commit messages.
<realist> His abrasive nature is slightly exagerated
<StevenK> Actually, the BSD community is the reason I don't use it.
<wolfe> ...
<wolfe> StevenK: there is nothign wrong with the BSD community
<wolfe> #linux on efnet has a hostile environment which tops the BSD community
<StevenK> The whole of EFNet can go jump.
<wolfe> when I first looked at Linux, it was indeed the hostile community.
<realist> efnet. enough said
<wolfe> the bsd channels on efnet were perfectly okay ;)
<wolfe> Dianora can be a bitch sometimes :)
<wolfe> she is however, a good person
<thully> the community (and in particular the developers) is actually what it comes down to for me.  I've actually had good experiences with Debian in that regard.  Kind of the opposite of what everyone says...
<thully> gotta log off now - bye...
<wolfe> hear that sound? The sound my of grammar flying out the door. :( I need to focus instead of thinking while writing comments :)
<wolfe> XD oh, I just thought of the comment I made to the bug. I referred to ADA making my whole comment sound like people who need Yelp must be disabled. X)
<sbalneav> Yawn. 2 am.  Night all
<sbalneav> Thx Hobbsee!
<Utnubu> hi all
<Utnubu> Is it a bug or feature that gparted mount all hard disk devices after start and partition operations?
<Utnubu> Isn't it dangerous?
<Nafallo> it doesn't
<Nafallo> gnome-volume-manager does
<Utnubu> This makes sense but if I change partition or something like that it shouldn't be mounted.
<Utnubu> I think gparted stops before doing something but how knows :)
<Utnubu> *who
<Nafallo> yea, I think its clever enough not to play with mounted stuff
<andrea-bs> What are the differences between python-central and python-support?
<xtknight> can someone take a look at Bug 134911 ?  what is the rationale for the current source code of the Screen Resolution applet?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134911 in gnome-control-center "[gutsy]  Screen resolutions other than current are not listed" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134911
<anderbubble> CUPS is missing the firmeware for the (foomatic-supported) HP LaserJet 1000. The firmware file is expected to be at /usr/share/foo2zjs/firmware/sihp1000.dl, and when I manually downloaded it (from the foomatic website) and placed it there, it worked immediately.
<aman> hi
<aman> everyone
<aman> plz
<aman> help
<Utnubu> hi all
<Utnubu> Does anyone know why powernowd is still used? Why not using only the kernel governors?
<aman> hi Utnubu
<mjg59> Powernowd is only used on hardware where ondemand doesn't work
<stgraber> aman: read topic, then if your request for help is on topic, directly ask, don't wait for someone to tell you that you can speak :)
<Utnubu> mjg59: But it still uses cpu ticks even if ondemand is enabled. But thanks for answer. Backwards compatibility is important.
<aman> stgraber sir i want to setup an internet connection on ubuntu 7.04
<aman> stgraber but cant do so
<aman> stgraber i have an direct internet broadband
<aman> stgraber no router or modem is involved
<aman> stgraber direct wire connection into lan card
<aman> stgraber its working fine in windows
<stgraber> aman: that's support question, so you'd better join #ubuntu (anyway, check that you see your NIC with ifconfig, if no maybe it's just unsuported)
<mjg59> Utnubu: No, it's not running at all if ondemand is used
<mjg59> If ondemand can be enabled, the init script never runs powernowd
<beuno> hello, I'm sure someone in here might be able to calrify something for me, I'm finishing this week's UWN, and there is a story on the whole xserver 1.4 delay, Xorg 7.3 has been included in gutsy though, right?
<stgraber> X Window System Version 1.3.0
<stgraber> Release Date: 19 April 2007
<stgraber> beuno: that's what's installed on my Gutsy box
<beuno> so it's just xserver which is delayed, right?
* beuno is trying to make sense of all the stories floating around
<mjg59> No, we don't have X.org 7.3
<mjg59> We have 1.3 of the server, which was an intermediate release
<mjg59> Xorg 7.3 will include 1.4 of the server
<pupi120290> hello. i created a gtk::window and added a vbox to it. the vbox contains a toolbar and a scrolled window. the toolbar always covers half of the window. how can i fix that
<pupi120290> it should look like the toolbars in all other apps
<pupi120290> PS: im using gtkmm
<beuno> mjg59: great, that clears it up a bit, thanks
<mjg59> pupi120290: This channel is for discussion of development of Ubuntu, not development using Ubuntu
<pupi120290> ok then where is the channel for discussion of development using ubuntu?
<andrea-bs> I've a problem with bzr:
<Utnubu> mjg59: You can easily check it with Gutsy and powertop
<Utnubu> it runs
<andrea-bs> bzr commit
<andrea-bs> bzr: ERROR: The file id __init__.py-20070717073125-ixdavddg6tfiyj3y-3 is not present in the tree
<andrea-bs> ls -aR | grep __init__.py-20070717073125-ixdavddg6tfiyj3y-3
<andrea-bs> __init__.py-20070717073125-ixdavddg6tfiyj3y-3.kndx
<andrea-bs> __init__.py-20070717073125-ixdavddg6tfiyj3y-3.knit
<beuno> andrea-bs: you might want to ask in #bzr instead
<andrea-bs> why it shows me this error?
<andrea-bs> beuno, ok, tnx
<mjg59> ht
<Utnubu> mjg59: Thanks for help.
<Utnubu> ciao
<varza> Could you add this patch to sane for make working Lexmark x1100 series scanner?
<varza> http://stef.dev.free.fr/sane/lexmark/
<dobey> varza: file a bug in launchpad requesting that?
<rexy_> i have a bug when upgrading from feisty now, which is listed as resolved for tribe V, should i make a new bug or add to that?
<rexy_> cups-pdf pckg config failed, mostly vanilla feisty, but the service wasnt running
#ubuntu-devel 2008-08-18
<dholbach> good morning
<stefanlsd> gotta go to work. cya guys later :)
<asac> dholbach: hey. one question: why do we release team reports before the month is actually over?
<asac> e.g. team report august: 22nd
<asac> ?
<dholbach> asac: good question, best to ask Mr Bacon about it :)
<asac> dholbach: is he ever online ;)?
<dholbach> yes, he should be back any minute
<dholbach> woohooo! the first team documented the packages they track on harvest!
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SugarTeam/GettingInvolved
<asac> nice
<dholbach> asac: should the recent diggler work with firefox-3? just reviewing a merge that still has firefox-2 in the Depends
<asac> dholbach: in intrepid we dont want to do anything for firefox 2 ... we will remove it
<dholbach> so? update to firefox-3?
<dholbach> bug 254614
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254614 in diggler "Please merge diggler 0.9-16 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254614
<cpufreak> should there be a firefox-3-dbg package btw?
 * cpufreak was looking for debugging symbols in hardy for ff last night, just found the ones for firefox-2
<asac> dholbach: ok updated
<dholbach> asac: did you use the patch in the package or did you do an upload of your own?
<asac> dholbach: i updated the bug ;)
<dholbach> asac: ah! thanks! :)
<Ng> asac: did you get a chance to play with openvpn? :)
<asac> Ng: not yet. setting up a openvpn thing appears to be still the blocking barrier ;)
<Ng> hmm, perhaps I can do something about that, since I particularly want this fixed ;)
<asac> lol ... see how it works ;)
<Ng> I can probably set up a VM at home. access won't be particularly fast, but you only need to be able to connect to it and ping the other end and everything else should be fine
<lool> ISTR some people were complaining about the new listadmin reporting "nothing in queue" incorrectly
<lool> This seems to be http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=495006 which is fixed in 2.40-2.2
<ubottu> Debian bug 495006 in listadmin "listadmin: 2.40 update broke it against Mailman-2.1.9/etch" [Grave,Open]
<lool> i'll file a sync request
<thibs> hi
<thibs> I just wanted to know if an RSS feed exists that broadcasts every new package update for a given release ?
<lool> jpds: Hmm your latest changes break requestsync
<thibs> like, I'd like to subscribe to hardy-updates feed
<lool> jpds:     print sys.stderr, >> "Could not connect to mailserver %s at port %s: %s (%i)" % \
<RAOF> thibs: Yes; eg
<RAOF> http://feeds.ubuntu-nl.org/IntrepidChanges
<jpds> lool: Oh dear, wrong way round, just a sec.
<thibs> RAOF, cool! Is it a special feature provided by ubuntu-nl lug or is it "official" ?
<thibs> RAOF, I mean... is this feed maintained by ubuntu-nl guys or is it a replication of an official one ?
<jpds> lool: ubuntu-dev-tools_0.40ubuntu2_source.changes - uploaded.
<lool> jpds: thanks
<lool> jpds: Did you push to lp?
<jpds> lool: Yes.
<lool> I see no new revisions in ubuntu-dev-tools
<jpds> lp:ubuntu-dev-tools at revision 176.
<lool> Ah finally got it
<lool> I didn't know there was any delay; I thought bzr pushes were immediately completed when they happened
<lool> jpds: NameError: global name 'urllib2' is not defined
<jpds> lool: Are you reuploading or should I?
<lool> jpds: I did
<jpds> lool: Thanks, sorry for the problem.
<lool> I was wondering whether I had any choice than remove usage of urrlib to fix another issue I saw
<lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/38460/
<lool> NB I'm using a https_proxy which is a problem for many python apps
<Keybuk> today I shall remember to test packages before uploading them ;)
<ogra> haha
<thom> Keybuk: why change the habit of a lifetime? ;)
 * ogra curses loudy about horizontal scrolling for touchpads being enabled *again* by default ... grrr ... that renders my windowlist unusable 
<ogra> *grrrr* and why dont we have any way to disable horizontal scrolling via UI
<N_I_K_A> ÐÐ«
<TheMuso> /c
<N_I_K_A> Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÐ° Ð±ÐµÑÑ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<N_I_K_A> Ð´ÑÐ»ÐºÐ¿ÐµÑÑÑÑÑÑÐ³ÐºÑÑÐ·ÑÑÐ»Ð½7ÑÐ·ÐµÐ¶ÑÐ¾Ð°Ð¸Ð¿ÑÐ»ÑÐ¸Ð¶Ð¸Ð»Ð»Ð¸Ð°ÑÑÐ»ÑÐ¸Ð»Ð¸Ð¿Ð¼Ð»Ð¸Ð»Ð¸Ð»Ð±Ð¸Ð»Ð¿Ð»ÐµÐ¶Ð´ÑÑÑÑÐ¾ÐµÐ»ÑÐ¸ Ð´Ð»Ð±ÑÑÐ¿Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ñ Ð¿Ð¿Ñ Ð¿ÑÐ°Ð¿Ñ 515241425Ñ1 452Ð¼1Ñ452 14Ñ521Ð¿Ð¼ Ñ52152 Ñ125Ð¼Ð¿Ð¸1Ñ 452Ð¿1 251Ð¿4Ñ5 1Ð¿4Ñ5 214Ð¿52Ñ14 5Ð¿Ñ 5Ð¿52Ñ 13Ð¿Ð¼1Ñ4 35ÑÐ¼2Ð¿Ñ415Ð¿Ð¼Ð°1Ñ 3Ð°ÑÐ¿14Ñ 52Ð¿Ð¼Ð¸15ÑÐ°Ð¿1Ð¿Ñ 1452Ð¼Ð¸Ð¿Ñ14 5Ð°Ð¿Ñ14 52Ð¿Ð¼Ð°Ñ 15Ð¿Ð°4Ñ 5Ð°ÑÐ¿Ñ52 Ð°ÑÐ¿Ñ 5ÑÐ°Ð¿ÑÐ°Ð¿5ÑÐ¿Ð°4Ñ5Ð°
<wgrant> !ops
<ubottu> Help! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk
<N_I_K_A> Ð´ÑÐ»ÐºÐ¿ÐµÑÑÑÑÑÑÐ³ÐºÑÑÐ·ÑÑÐ»Ð½7ÑÐ·ÐµÐ¶ÑÐ¾Ð°Ð¸Ð¿ÑÐ»ÑÐ¸Ð¶Ð¸Ð»Ð»Ð¸Ð°ÑÑÐ»ÑÐ¸Ð»Ð¸Ð¿Ð¼Ð»Ð¸Ð»Ð¸Ð»Ð±Ð¸Ð»Ð¿Ð»ÐµÐ¶Ð´ÑÑÑÑÐ¾ÐµÐ»ÑÐ¸ Ð´Ð»Ð±ÑÑÐ¿Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ñ Ð¿Ð¿Ñ Ð¿ÑÐ°Ð¿Ñ 515241425Ñ1 452Ð¼1Ñ452 14Ñ521Ð¿Ð¼ Ñ52152 Ñ125Ð¼Ð¿Ð¸1Ñ 452Ð¿1 251Ð¿4Ñ5 1Ð¿4Ñ5 214Ð¿52Ñ14 5Ð¿Ñ 5Ð¿52Ñ 13Ð¿Ð¼1Ñ4 35ÑÐ¼2Ð¿Ñ415Ð¿Ð¼Ð°1Ñ 3Ð°ÑÐ¿14Ñ 52Ð¿Ð¼Ð¸15ÑÐ°Ð¿1Ð¿Ñ 1452Ð¼Ð¸Ð¿Ñ14 5Ð°Ð¿Ñ14 52Ð¿Ð¼Ð°Ñ 15Ð¿Ð°4Ñ 5Ð°ÑÐ¿Ñ52 Ð°ÑÐ¿Ñ 5ÑÐ°Ð¿ÑÐ°Ð¿5ÑÐ¿Ð°4Ñ5Ð°
<N_I_K_A> Ð´ÑÐ»ÐºÐ¿ÐµÑÑÑÑÑÑÐ³ÐºÑÑÐ·ÑÑÐ»Ð½7ÑÐ·ÐµÐ¶ÑÐ¾Ð°Ð¸Ð¿ÑÐ»ÑÐ¸Ð¶Ð¸Ð»Ð»Ð¸Ð°ÑÑÐ»ÑÐ¸Ð»Ð¸Ð¿Ð¼Ð»Ð¸Ð»Ð¸Ð»Ð±Ð¸Ð»Ð¿Ð»ÐµÐ¶Ð´ÑÑÑÑÐ¾ÐµÐ»ÑÐ¸ Ð´Ð»Ð±ÑÑÐ¿Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ñ Ð¿Ð¿Ñ Ð¿ÑÐ°Ð¿Ñ 515241425Ñ1 452Ð¼1Ñ452 14Ñ521Ð¿Ð¼ Ñ52152 Ñ125Ð¼Ð¿Ð¸1Ñ 452Ð¿1 251Ð¿4Ñ5 1Ð¿4Ñ5 214Ð¿52Ñ14 5Ð¿Ñ 5Ð¿52Ñ 13Ð¿Ð¼1Ñ4 35ÑÐ¼2Ð¿Ñ415Ð¿Ð¼Ð°1Ñ 3Ð°ÑÐ¿14Ñ 52Ð¿Ð¼Ð¸15ÑÐ°Ð¿1Ð¿Ñ 1452Ð¼Ð¸Ð¿Ñ14 5Ð°Ð¿Ñ14 52Ð¿Ð¼Ð°Ñ 15Ð¿Ð°4Ñ 5Ð°ÑÐ¿Ñ52 Ð°ÑÐ¿Ñ 5ÑÐ°Ð¿ÑÐ°Ð¿5ÑÐ¿Ð°4Ñ5Ð°
<N_I_K_A> Ð´ÑÐ»ÐºÐ¿ÐµÑÑÑÑÑÑÐ³ÐºÑÑÐ·ÑÑÐ»Ð½7ÑÐ·ÐµÐ¶ÑÐ¾Ð°Ð¸Ð¿ÑÐ»ÑÐ¸Ð¶Ð¸Ð»Ð»Ð¸Ð°ÑÑÐ»ÑÐ¸Ð»Ð¸Ð¿Ð¼Ð»Ð¸Ð»Ð¸Ð»Ð±Ð¸Ð»Ð¿Ð»ÐµÐ¶Ð´ÑÑÑÑÐ¾ÐµÐ»ÑÐ¸ Ð´Ð»Ð±ÑÑÐ¿Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ñ Ð¿Ð¿Ñ Ð¿ÑÐ°Ð¿Ñ 515241425Ñ1 452Ð¼1Ñ452 14Ñ521Ð¿Ð¼ Ñ52152 Ñ125Ð¼Ð¿Ð¸1Ñ 452Ð¿1 251Ð¿4Ñ5 1Ð¿4Ñ5 214Ð¿52Ñ14 5Ð¿Ñ 5Ð¿52Ñ 13Ð¿Ð¼1Ñ4 35ÑÐ¼2Ð¿Ñ415Ð¿Ð¼Ð°1Ñ 3Ð°ÑÐ¿14Ñ 52Ð¿Ð¼Ð¸15ÑÐ°Ð¿1Ð¿Ñ 1452Ð¼Ð¸Ð¿Ñ14 5Ð°Ð¿Ñ14 52Ð¿Ð¼Ð°Ñ 15Ð¿Ð°4Ñ 5Ð°ÑÐ¿Ñ52 Ð°ÑÐ¿Ñ 5ÑÐ°Ð¿ÑÐ°Ð¿5ÑÐ¿Ð°4Ñ5Ð°
<wgrant> Thanks Keybuk.
<fabbione> that was fast.....
<Hobbsee> yay, people.
<emgent> heya Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> hey emgent
<raphink> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey raphink!
<raphink> :)
<Keybuk> err
<Keybuk> wtf
<Keybuk> Your message to ubuntu-devel awaits moderator approval
<Keybuk> I can't post to ubuntu-devel anymore?!
<mvo> happend to me when I posted with "mvo@ubuntu.com" but was subscribed as "michael.vogt@ubuntu.com"
<seb128> Keybuk: several people complained about that some days ago too
<Hobbsee> i pity the poor person who next goes thru that list with a working listadmin.
<Keybuk> but I *am* subscribed
<Keybuk> with that e-mail address
<seb128> Keybuk: as said I read some other similar complains some days ago, I guess something went wrong on the list, would require a list admin to look at the issue
<tjaalton> ogra: what do you mean "again"?
<ogra> tjaalton, well, i have that prob every development cycle
<ogra> tjaalton, and it always ends with one of you X guys patching the driver to not have horizontal scrolling :)
<Keybuk> seb128: technical issue apparently, elmo fixing :)
<seb128> Keybuk: good ;-)
<tjaalton> ogra: ah, right. the problem seems to be that dexconf used to add HorizEdgeScroll "0" to the conf, but now that the hal fdi file is used, the option is not set
<ogra> tjaalton, if i click on a buton in the windowlist in my bottom panel and then move to the terminal i brought up with that the windowlist gets a scrolling event from my touchpad if i dont move the pointer exactly vertically away from the windowlist
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: hmmm.  did you cancel?
<Keybuk> no
<tjaalton> ogra: anyway, synaptics should support input properties soonish, then you can change the settings runtime
<ogra> i.e. if my terminal pops up on the top left or right corner i indeed move off the windowlist in a diagonal way
 * Hobbsee wonders if someone else got their first.
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: you posted as scott@canonical.com
<ogra> which then interprets the horizontal movement and randomly makes the windowlist swithc to another app
<tjaalton> ogra: yes, the option could be set in the fdi file. let me fix that
<ogra> thanks :)
<tjaalton> anyone with a macbook btw?
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: mail accepted
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: I did, yes
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: I generally use that instead of ubuntu.com
<Hobbsee> which is...subscribed to the list.
<Keybuk> right, I subscribed as just about every combination I can think of
<Chipzz> tjaalton: yes, but running osx on it :P
<Keybuk> since I have my mail client configured to reply with the address I receive
<Chipzz> so that won't help you I guess?
<Keybuk> so if someone mails me as scott@ubuntu.com and ccs the list, my reply will be from scott@ubuntu.com
<Keybuk> and I want it to go through
<Keybuk> et.c
 * Hobbsee tries to remember how this section of the lists work
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: it was an "open id problem"
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: ahhh.
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: so there was yet more breakage from that.
<bigon> Mithrandir, hi could you renew my telepathy membership (without expiration time is better)
<tjaalton> Chipzz: right, you'd have to run intrepid ;)
<elmo> the LP group address <-> lists.ubuntu.com syncing was broken by some openID upgrades
<elmo> I've fixed it and the moderation should be back to normal; sorry about that
<elmo> Keybuk et al.: ^--
<seb128> elmo: thanks
<ogra> works fine
 * ogra just mailed -devel
<Keybuk> elmo: thanks for your fast work ;)
<Hobbsee> elmo: cool, thanks
 * Hobbsee shoves a whole bunch of stuff out of the moderation queue
 * thorwil seems to get the same mails again and again. bad cross-posting
<Hobbsee> thorwil: yeah, not sure why people cross-post to -devel and -devel-discuss :(
<thorwil> Hobbsee: indeed. but then i tried to keep what was in CC to not break threads and got into moderation :}
<ScottK> elmo: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> thorwil: yeah, well.  usually, people go thru u-d queue more regularly - but listadmin is broken ;(
<Hobbsee> so i doubt people are doing much with it
<pwnguin> so is -discuss intended to be a spill over from moderation?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> # https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelModeration
<thorwil> - discuss is just open, not moderated and can hence be expected to be less focused
<pwnguin> well, as long as I don't need to look for replies on -discuss, I think I'll just duck the less focused conversation ;)
<thorwil> so my scrollbar concept has a fan who posted a brainstorm idea, filed a bug, a blueprint and had to hit 3 ubuntu lists at once
<pwnguin> heh
<thorwil> i hope it's someone else who made a topic on the forum
<pwnguin> the thing about the scrollbar is that it's not very obvious by just looking at it
<ramvi> ï»¿What directory are the startup applications in? Customizing a livecd..
<ln-> why the zero-width no-break space?
<Ng> ln-: I'd guess pasting, some channels I'm in have that at the start of the topic and it's because they've pasted in from something else
<ln-> i'm wondering how did ramvi manage to begin his line with one.
<ramvi> ass -- /etc/xdg/autostart
<Mithrandir> bigon: done
<bigon> thx
 * ogra hugs tjaalton 
<ogra> thanks a lot
<tjaalton> ogra: np, noticed that upstream now has properies support for synaptics, but it'll take a while to get in :)
<ogra> i whish i could get evtouch to work ... then i'd be happy all over ... but i get no feedback at all, not even on the hal ML
<tjaalton> does the driver load?
<ogra> and either ith my own hacked up fdi file nor with my old xorg.conf it works
<ogra> X got stuck the last time i tried it ...
<tjaalton> ok..
<ogra> i havent had the time to try with the latest upload yet
<ogra> i saw there was one last week or so
<ogra> err. oh
<ogra> you fixed the same thing i fixed before ?
<ogra> did i do anything worng in my upload ?
<tjaalton> there was another reference to it
 * ogra just checked the changelog
<tjaalton> check the bug too :)
<ogra> oh, right :)
<ogra> hmm, i should test my fdi again then :=
<tjaalton> could you post it somewhere so I can have a look?
<ogra> just trying to find out where i got it
<ogra> it was simply a ripoff of the wacom file matching the device and using evtouch
<ogra> that worked fine, just made xorg hardlock
<ogra> but i saw it being loaded
<ogra> in the log
<ogra> grrr
<ogra> paste.ubuntu.com thinks it is php and i want to do anything evil
<tjaalton> heh
<ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/38506/
<ogra> tsk ... three dots help
<tjaalton> yeah, looks ok
<ogra> i'll put it back and try
<ogra> yay !
<ogra> events !
<ion_> Mmm... Events.
<ogra> tjaalton, http://paste.ubuntu.com/38511/
<ogra> had to change it to info.capabilities contains="input.touchpad"
<ogra> now i got events ... totally off and uncalibrated but thats a major step forward
<tjaalton> cool
<ogra> now to find out how i get the claibration data into the fdi file
<mvo> ogra: events! events! events! (/me throws a chair)
<ogra> lol
<tjaalton> ogra: input.x11_options.Foo
<ogra> thanks !
 * ogra tries
<tjaalton> you can set any option that way
<tjaalton> always use type=string
<tjaalton> hum, gotta run ->
<ogra> thanks so much !
<ogra> sweet !!!
<ogra> hmm, why doesnt compiz respect my sloppy focus setting :/
<ogra> hmm, xrandr doesnt reall ylike me yet
<BenC> Am I the only one experiencing corrupted mbox's after an intrepid update of evo?
<pwnguin> you might be the only one using evo ;)
<ogra> not really
<YokoZar> ScottK: poke
<BenC> pwnguin: Then I could honestly say the bug was directed at _me_ :)
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> novell is conspiring to break benC's ubuntu!
<asac> Ng: does the latest nm from PPA change anything ... do you see any regressions besides from vpn?
<asac> (e.g. snapshot from today)
<Ng> asac: I'll check
<kees> when is the ex-platform team meeting usually?
<james_w> kees: wednesday 22:00 UTC
<kees> james_w: okay, cool.  I need to swing by with some questions -- is there an agenda I can add myself to?
<james_w> kees: drop a mail to Colin
<ScottK> IIRC he's on vaction this week.
<james_w> ScottK: nope, he's back by then
<ScottK> OK.
<BenC> Just in case anyone was wondering, I fixed my evo problem by deleting all the indexes and meta data in .evolution/mail/local/
<cody-somerville> How does popcorn know if people use a package regularly?
<Spads> cody-somerville: something to do with the heat of the oil when it pops, I think.
<tedg> The gnomes tell the kernels when they're done.  That's why KDE people eat pretzels.
<geser> cody-somerville: iirc it checks the atime
<james_w> seb128: I've sent a patch for gnome-session upstream. Should I milestone the Ubuntu bug so that we can fix it directly if it doesn't make it in to a release in time?
<james_w> seb128: bug 258145
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258145 in gnome-session "gnome-session-properties fails to create entries if .config/autostart is missing" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258145
<seb128> james_w: hi, thanks, you can milestone it but don't use nomination that's not required
<james_w> seb128: you mean not "Nominate for release", but add a beta milestone?
<seb128> yes
<james_w> is beta correct do you think?
<bbs> what is the next release after hardy -- the one in development
<james_w> bbs: intrepid ibex
<seb128> yes, don't really matter, any milestone between now and intrepid will do
<LaserJock> bbs: Intrepid
<james_w> seb128: great, thanks
<seb128> the patch is trivial enough
<bbs> LaserJock: whats the sources.list
<bbs> ibex or intrepid
<james_w> bbs: intrepid
<jpds> bbs: intrepid and please visit #ubuntu+1 too for problems with it and other discussion.
#ubuntu-devel 2008-08-19
<pwnguin> We appologize but your request was not able to be processed. Please
<pwnguin> unsubscribe again from the MedicineNet Daily Health Newsletter.
 * pwnguin gets stabby
<LaserJock> bryce: around?
<bryce> yep
<LaserJock> bryce: I was looking at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt and noticed inkscape
<bryce> ah, looks like several of its extension dependencies are listed there
<bluefoxicy> Things NOT to do when upgrading someone's distribution:
<bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ sudo rm `which f-spot`
<bluefoxicy> [sudo] password for bluefox:
<bluefoxicy> ........ change the default behavior from "Ask a question when a camera is plugged in" to "Open a program and rabidly start scanning files on removable media with a cancel button that doesn't actually stop the process"
<bluefoxicy> whose hard drive do I need to nuke for that change >:|
<dholbach> good morning
<warp10> Hi all
<hwilde> Alpha-4 = :)
<tseliot> mvo: is there a way to retrieve the path to a deb package in the ubuntu pool with python-apt? For example x11-common is in x/xorg/
<mvo> tseliot: yes, give me a sec, I check it out for you, its a bit complicated iirc
<tseliot> mvo: thanks
<mvo> tseliot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/38750
<tseliot> mvo: great! Thanks a lot, it's exactly what I need
<liw> mvo, apropos your excellent stuff: is there a reason why one might not want to run unattended-upgrades? I've been using it for a week or so now, and it seems to great that I'm worried that I'm missing a big problem somewhere
<liw> because whenever something seems too good to be true, there's usually a hidden problem somewhere
<ion_> Iâve been attended-upgrades on multiple boxes for ages and never had a problem.
 * hwilde does not run unattended out of principle
<hwilde> i like to know when i'm breakin my system
<liw> I'm running it on a dozen systems now, and it's saving me significant amounts of time to not have to run apt-get manually on each of them several times a week
<liw> all stable systems (Debian etch or Ubuntu hardy)
<mvo> liw: there is no hidden problem that I'm aware of
<mvo> liw: it just works :)
<liw> mvo, well, dang, now you're really making me nervous :)
<mvo> liw: I think we just never turned it on for everybody out of caution, it would make a bad update auto install on a lot of system
<wgrant> How does it handle things like the OpenSSL vulnerability, with lots of debconf promptsZ?
<wgrant> -Z
<liw> mvo, yeah, it's probably not something that should be enabled by default
<mvo> wgrant: it runs with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive and trusts the packages that they do the right thing (the right thing may be to just mail the admin for help via debconf). it also will not upgrade stuff automatically if there are conffile changes
<wgrant> mvo: Aha, that does sound optimal.
<maswan> For all my work systems, I prefer updates to happen both when I expect them and during working hours. Likely testing the updates on a test system first too, before rolling out everywhere.
<maswan> But then that's the other kind of special case.
<wgrant> That's the kind of case where you don't want automated upgrades, so wouldn't activate them...
<emgent> moin
<Syntux> Good day
<persia> Syntux: You were asking about a means by which to generate a list of all the source packages that end up shipping stuff on the CD.
<Syntux> I'm trying to generate a list of translatable applications and categories them (CD packages | none-CD packages) in order to launch a sponsored translation campaign :-)
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/intrepid-alternate-i386.list
<ogra> and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/intrepid-desktop-i386.manifest for the liveCD
<persia> I believe that this can be generated from the germinate output with $(grep -h '^[a-z]' {ship-live,boot,live,desktop,desktop-common,standard,minimal,required}.sources | awk '{ print $1 }' | sort -u)
<persia> One ought be able to determine the contents of the {} construction by recursively including dependencies from e.g. http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.intrepid/structure
<Syntux> thanks
<persia> ogra: Can someone with a touchscreen that didn't work in hardy help give you information for intrepid support?  What precisely do you need?
<ogra> persia, well currently i'm inly intrested in evtouch devices
<ogra> *only
<Riddell> zul: xen-3.3 in main or universe?
<zul> universe
<Riddell> ok
<stefanlsd> Does anyone know what happened to ubuntu-system-service.  my gnome-session was removed and cant install it again.
<mvo> stefanlsd: it should be back on the next publisher run
<stefanlsd> mvo: kk. thanks. wont restart gdm  :)
<seb128> people should really read what apt wants to do before accepting to get things uninstalled
<mok0> I need a hint how to define a new monitor in the database
<DktrKranz> lamont: thanks for adjusting p-a-s. Are changes immediately adopted by our buildds or should I wait a bit?
<Peaker> is sync-to-vblank support broken?  Its supposedly enabled (in two machines, one with nvidia drivers, and one with ATI) and still there's a tear effect
<Peaker> also, why is it not on by default?
<lamont> DktrKranz: figure somewhere within 24-48 hours
<DktrKranz> thanks
<Peaker> watching youtube videos in full-screen and compiz effects look pretty horrible on a big screen without vblank sync
<ogra> have you filed a bug ?
<Peaker> not yet - I will, but I was wondering if this was a known issue
<Riddell> zul: xen-3.3 creates libxen3 which was previously in main and made from xen-3.2
<Riddell> zul: so this package replaces xen-3.2?
<zul> Riddell: yes it does
<Riddell> zul: and at the same time, is demoted to universe?
<zul> Riddell: the library stays in main it is needed for virt-manager et al, the rest goes in universe
<Riddell> ok
<Riddell> so the source also needs to be in main
<Riddell> zul: lots of W: python-xen-3.3: package-installs-python-pyc usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/xen/xsview/xsviewer.pyc
<Riddell> type erros
<zul> Riddell: I can fix those up and get another version uploaded
<Riddell> zul: well accepted anyway
<zul> Riddell: ok Ill fix those up none of the less
<Mez> is anyone working on a pidgin update? or we waiting on Debian firsT?
<kirkland> slangasek: Hi, not to pester, but what's the status of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PAMConfigFrameworkSpec ?
<Mez> kirkland, according to LP - not started yet...
<kirkland> Mez: thanks, i've been back and forth with slangasek about it, he said it should be done by last friday...  i'm just checking on that
<Mez> kirkland, ah, fair enough then
<Mez> he'll know better... :D
<persia> Mez: RIght now, waiting for Debian is a dangerous game: Debian is frozen for Lenny release, and when they open, it will include a dump of a fair bit of experimental.
<persia> (that said, I don't have an opinion about updating pidgin)
<Mez> persia, oh yeah, the freeze...
<Mez> unstable can still recieve uploads though
<persia> Well, right, but most people won't push anything into sid that won't be going into Lenny because it might cause a transition issue.
 * Mez shrugs
<Mez> more fool them then
<kirkland> does anyone know anything about bootlogd?  it doesn't appear to be used anymore, but looks like there are a few artifacts still hanging around
<cathya> 6
<ogra> kirkland, there is logd now which isnt ready
<ogra> (its part of upstart but far from being usable)
<kirkland> ogra: gotcha, thanks
<ogra> bootlogd is dead nearly as long as ubuntu exists
<ogra> a lot of people would love you if you would fix the situation though :) its a longstanding request
<jcastro> asac: have you seen this: http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManager/MobileBroadband/ServiceProviders
<asac> jcastro: sure
<asac> jcastro: i am working closely with the mdba guy
<asac> he already joined the network-manager team ;)
<jcastro> asac: ok great!
<asac> Riddell: not sure, but i guess knetworkmanager needs to be updated (at least in PPA?)
<kirkland> Riddell: hey, question for you... does kdm specifically avoid using the lsb init functions in its init script for a reason?
<Riddell> kirkland: not that I know of
<Riddell> kirkland: what's it missing?
<Riddell> asac: is there a new version of network-manager?
<kirkland> Riddell: I'm on the server team, and we're making a concentrated effort to get as many of the core init scripts to support the LSB "status" action, which you can run to determine whether or not a given service is running
<kirkland> Riddell: I have a patch for KDM, but I notice that it does not source /lib/lsb/init-functions, and doesn't depend on lsb-base
<kirkland> Riddell: that's somewhat odd...  i haven't seen many init scripts that don't use the lsb functions for logging, etc.
<Riddell> kirkland: probably just unloved
<kirkland> Riddell: okay, it's almost always present, but I'll add it to the control as part of my patch, and source it too
<asac> Riddell: yes. same verseion that is in intrepid now
<ion_> tkamppeter: This is what the filter actually does to a PS file: http://heh.fi/tmp/im-in-ur-postscript-fixin-ur-drm
<tkamppeter> ion_, nice trick.
<slangasek> kirkland: a few days delayed; I'm hurrying to get it uploaded today
<seb128> hey slangasek
 * slangasek waves
<kirkland> slangasek: cool, would you mind dropping me a line when you do?
<slangasek> kirkland: no problem
<kirkland> slangasek: i'll add the ecryptfs depends, and profile as soon as it's in the archive
<seb128> slangasek: will you move the sru which are ready to go to hardy-updates or is that something that has to wait for pitti to be back from his holidays?
<slangasek> seb128: I will, but PAM is the higher priority
<kirkland> slangasek: silly question, but is such a package going to have to go through REVU, Universe, MIR, etc?
<slangasek> kirkland: which package?
<kirkland> slangasek: pam config
<slangasek> it's not a separate package, no
<seb128> slangasek: dunno about the pam thing but no hurry, thanks ;-)
<kirkland> slangasek: oh, you're adding it to pam itself?
<slangasek> kirkland: yes, that's where it belongs :)
<BenC> slangasek: Since this came up so quickly, I didn't have time to invite colin or scott...be in about 1 minute, we are discussing possibly moving to 2.6.27 in intrepid, on #ubuntu-kernel (team meeting)
<BenC> slangasek: care to join to get outside representation?
<BenC> slangasek: I guess scott and colin are in manager meeting
<BenC> s/representation/feedback/
<kirkland> Riddell: howdy, the kdm/status bug (with patch) is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/+bug/259446
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259446 in kdebase-workspace "kdm init script should support the "status" action" [Wishlist,In progress]
<Riddell> kirkland: doesn't look too complez
<Riddell> complex
<kirkland> Riddell: not at all... very minor, but lots of init scripts to patch ;-)
<kirkland> Riddell: the other ones we've patched, or trying to patch are https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InitScriptStatusActions#Init%20scripts%20with%20daemon(s)
<Riddell> kirkland: need me to upload?
<kirkland> Riddell: please \o/
<superm1> hi kirkland. i was curious what happened with discussion about that mention of mysql-server a few days ago.  i'm not sure the -server team meeting schedule, so i wasn't sure if you got a chance to talk about it?
<kirkland> superm1: whoa.... i'm this moment alt-tabbing away from a console that's pulling the mysql-sources
<Riddell> kirkland: should be fine to send to debian too presumably?
<kirkland> Riddell: yes, the status_of_proc() function is in the Debian lsb-base 3.2.14 package
<kirkland> Riddell: we're pushing as many of these to Debian as we can
<kirkland> Riddell: if you're going to handle that for me, that would be marvelous!
<Riddell> kirkland: will do
<kirkland> zul: jdstrand: hey, got a minute to talk to superm1 and I about mysql-server?
<superm1> kirkland, hehe.
<jdstrand> kirkland: zul's is afk, but maybe I can help?
<kirkland> superm1: i left a message for them in IRC after we talked last week, but it probably got lost in the logs
<jdstrand> (I lost my irc backlog due to an ISP 'issue')
<kirkland> jdstrand: mysql-server has 'recommends' on mailx
<kirkland> jdstrand: that superm1 is trying to track down
<superm1> jdstrand, which is pulling in exim4 on intrepid now for all installs of mysql-server
<jdstrand> kirkland: as in 'why the Recommends'?
<jdstrand> superm1: not surprising, because of installing 'Recommends' by default
<kirkland> jdstrand: well, why, for one
<superm1> jdstrand, yeah i was attempting to argue the point that a mail server should be a separate task and more of an opt in scenario then opt out
<jdstrand> kirkland: I see in the changelog:
<jdstrand> mysql-dfsg-5.0 (5.0.18-7) unstable; urgency=low
<jdstrand>   * Made mailx in debian-start.inc.sh optional and changed the dependency on it
<jdstrand>     on it to a mere recommendation. Closes: #316297
<kirkland> jdong: and perhaps something more like postfix|mail-transport-agent
<kirkland> jdstrand: based on that changelog, we could probably lower it to a "Suggests"
<jdstrand> sounds like mailx should be bumped down to Suggests on Ubuntu...
<jdstrand> yea, what kirkland said ;P
<jdstrand> yeah even...
<kirkland> jdstrand: okay, if i make that change, can you upload it for me?
<kirkland> jdstrand: or do you think more discussion is required?
<jdstrand> what's ne more line of diff in an already humongous diff in mysql :)
<jdstrand> kirkland: no, I'll upload
<kirkland> jdstrand: :-P
<jdstrand> kirkland: it is clearly a problem and loads of packages are getting dropped to Suggests for just this reason
<kirkland> superm1: you mind opening the LP bug while I make a diff?
<superm1> kirkland, sure i can take care of that
<kirkland> superm1: cool, diff ready, just need an LP #
<superm1> kirkland, bug 259477
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259477 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "mailx should not be Recommends" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259477
<jdstrand> kirkland, superm1: out of curiosity, I looked at /usr/share/mysql/debian-start.inc.sh. It has an enlightening comment: # Check for presence as a dependency on mailx would require an MTA.
<jdstrand> so apparently, the maintainer agrees with us too :)
<kirkland> jdstrand: right
<kirkland> jdstrand: so it really is just a matter of the promotion of Recommends that brings this in on installations
<jdstrand> kirkland: exactly
<kirkland> jdstrand: superm1: patch attached to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/+bug/259446
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259446 in kdebase-workspace "kdm init script should support the "status" action" [Wishlist,In progress]
<jdstrand> kirkland: umm, is that the correct bug?
<kirkland> jdstrand: crap crap crap
<kirkland> jdstrand: one second...  (too many FF tabs open)
<jdstrand> no biggie :)
<kirkland> jdstrand: try https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-dfsg-5.0/+bug/259477
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259477 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "mailx should not be Recommends" [Medium,In progress]
<kirkland> jdstrand: the filename is wrong, but the changelog entry is right
<jdstrand> kirkland: ok
<kirkland> jdstrand: okay, i'm actually adding the init script status actions to mysql right now too...
<kirkland> jdstrand: would a single patch be best?
<jdstrand> kirkland: sure
<zul> jdstrand: I can do it
<mvo> Ng: I fixed a problem (well, worked around it) with the sandbox upgrader that caused the low network speed. it should be much happier (and faster) now
<mvo> (just FYI because you mentioned the low speed the other day)
<Ng> mvo: ah cool, I may well give it another go then :)
<Ng> not sure if I'll have time tonight though
<mvo> no rush, just wanted to let you know :)
<LaserJock> mvo: does g-a-i use the system icons for the category menu?
<LaserJock> I mean, whatever the user's icon theme is set to
<mvo> LaserJock: yes, it should do that
<LaserJock> mvo: is there a way to override that?
<mvo> LaserJock: yes,you can play around with the icon theme
<mvo> LaserJock: a simple         self.icons.prepend_search_path(os.path.join(datadir, "laserjocks-icons"))
<mvo>  may already be enough
<LaserJock> mvo: ok, if I put icons in the datadir will it override existing user icon themes?
<mvo> LaserJock: in Menu.py aoround line 75
<ramvi> ï»¿How to I add something to the Applications menu through terminal?
<mvo> LaserJock: I'm not sure, I think it does not because I use "append search path" there, but to be sure, please test
<ramvi> I'm customizing the livecd
<joaopinto> ramvi, the channel for support is #ubuntu, not #ubuntu-devel
<mvo> LaserJock: I need to run for dinner, sorry, I will be back in 45min
<ramvi> joaopinto:  Thought maybe customizing the livecd was development. Sorry
<LaserJock> mvo: np, I'll poke around with it
<nullack> Ping mvo: Do you have time to discuss bug 250524?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 250524 in synaptic "[Intrepid] Synaptic should depend on apt-xapian-index" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/250524
<geser> nullack: really bad timing: [19:26:39]          mvo | LaserJock: I need to run for dinner, sorry, I will be back in 45min
<nullack> No worries, Ill catch him later
<mvo> nullack: hello! about the apt-xapian-index I would love to make it a depends (or at least a recommends) again, but currently CD space is very tight
<mvo> nullack: that is why it got demoted from a recommends to a suggests (I'm not very happy about that)
<nullack> mvo: Ty, some users are becoming loud about it on the forums, A person posted on the bug to turf some screensavers or something
<nullack> mvo: If we cant fit space and better compression cant be had, maybe we should look at removing the panel so users dont get curious about it
<mvo> nullack: I can't blame them for complaining, really. I will try to sort that out over the next couple of days, the backup plan is to have a button there if a-x-i is not installed so that synaptic installs it
<nullack> mvo: Are you ok with me putting a statement in the bug that investigations are continuing to appease for awhile?
<mvo> nullack: yes, and you may mention the backup plan as well :)
<nullack> Thankyou
<mvo> patches welcome, should not be more than a 1-2h job
<slangasek> mvo: how big is apt-xapian-index, precisely?
<mvo> slangasek: 31,4k + 530k for python-xapian + 768k for libxapian15
<mvo> hm, maybe libxapian15 is already on the CD, so just python-xapian
<slangasek> mvo: well, we aren't /currently/ so tight on space that we can't include that
<mvo> hm, when I talked to pitti about that before alpha4 he asked me to remove the recommends, I'm more than happy to add it back if the space permits it
<slangasek> that was possibly around the time that we were still working on fixing the timezone xml bloat
<slangasek> and we still have more trimming to do, in the form of duplicated fonts between ghostscript-fonts and gsfonts
<jdstrand> kirkland, zul: so who is doing what on the mysql update?
<mvo> slangasek: aha, good. I will promote it back to a recommends then and upload it, thanks a lot!
<zul> jdstrand: good question I was waiting for kirkland to do the status stuff
<slangasek> mvo: ok - if there's no question in your mind that Recommends is the correct relationship for this package, then please do
<jdstrand> zul: I just assume integrate that other bug into the status update, since it's so small
<zul> jdstrand: I agree
<jdstrand> zul: then we wait...
<zul> jdstrand: yep
<LaserJock> hmm, devscripts Recommends seem rather heavy
<ion_> Heh
<LaserJock> went to upgrade my intrepid chroot and it devscripts wanted to bring in 70 new packages including 1 from Universe, X, python-launchpad-bugs, pbuilder, and bzr
<LaserJock> ahhh, it's because devscripts now recommends ubuntu-dev-tools
<ScottK> Yes.  Feel free to go beat on Laney in #ubuntu-motu.
<Laney> I didn't put that recommends in :(
<LaserJock> ScottK: you almost made me beat the wrong person ;-)
<ScottK> Laney: Did Colin add it then?
<LaserJock> ScottK: the changelog entry is from Nathan Handler
<jpds> Actually nhandler added it.
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> LaserJock and Laney: Sorry.
 * ScottK tries again.
<ScottK> Yes.  Feel free to go beat on nhandler in #ubuntu-motu.
<azeem> anbody know why the Hurd is mentioned on http://www.canonical.com/aboutus/contributions ?
<elmo> azeem: it's an anachronism
<elmo> azeem: I've asked our webmaster to fix it
<azeem> elmo: LWN picked it up :-/
<elmo> azeem: it's not been true since Jeff moved on
<azeem> k
<elmo> azeem: yeah, I saw :(
<azeem> (it's not like Jeff was a major Hurd (upstream) contributor anyway)
<azeem> k
<elmo> well I'm assuming it was tied to Jeff, I can't think of any other active folks we have or have had in the Hurd space
<azeem> Kamion did some Debian GNU/Hurd work on and off
<azeem> like fixing SSH IIRC
<Otacon22> gnome bluetooth deamon is bugged
<Otacon22> i can't send any kind of file from my phone
<Otacon22> i'm sure also because others people said me to have the same problem
<ma10> how do i build xulrunner development versions from mozillateam's bazaar?
<ma10> i mean, is there a script to get the sources from cvs?
<stefanlsd> I built an update for Pidgin 2.5.0 if anyone wants to try it. Its in my PPA. http://ppa.launchpad.net/stefanlsd/ubuntu
<ma10> i need help debugging a crash xulrunner related.. anyone?
<ma10> asac?
<jpds> ma10: #ubuntu-mozillateam may be able to help.
<LaserJock> ma10: you might want to ask #ubuntu-mozillateam and look on wiki.ubuntu.com
<ma10> thanks
<NCommander> Riddell, you around?
<Riddell> hi NCommander
<TheMuso_> ?c
#ubuntu-devel 2008-08-20
<emgent> night.
<__iron> hi
<__iron> could it be that linux ram-management have any failure ?
<RAOF> __iron: Of course.  But I don't think this is the place to raise whatever question it is that you'll eventually raise.
<bryce_> http://www.joshuazeidner.com/2008/02/ted-gould-svg-inkscape-and-web.html
<genii> A few things about installing from debootstrap. 1 - root is enabled and has no password by default.   2 - no default users, no prompt to create one     3 - in kubuntu install, there seems no sound mixer backend
 * genii puts on a pot of coffee before he leaves
<wolfe> gee I need to get more involved in the fixing bugs or sending patches. :/
<persia> wolfe: If you're bored, and want work to do, #ubuntu-motu is a good place to ask for tasks.
<wolfe> ^_^ thanks
<wolfe> I can't think of anything ubuntu needs program/gui wise :P since I know the the people working on said lacking programs already.
<persia> wolfe: Well, personally, I'd like to see better drivers for Brain-Computer interfaces, and I don't know that anyone is working on a GUI to help tune those.  Mind you, the drivers need a lot of work first.
<mneptok> persia: i have the actual IO working, but the calibration tools are somewhat lackluster
<mneptok> "OH GOD! DON'T REFORMAT! I just wanted pancakes!"
<persia> See, it's all about having good drivers, a good set of defaults, and some interface to help the user to avoid that sort of confusion.
<mneptok> :)
 * mneptok tootles off for home
<wolfe> persia: send me a brain-computer interface and I'll work on drivers :P
<persia> wolfe: That works.  Please email me your address and a quick summary showing that you can write input drivers.  I'll send it in about three weeks.
<wolfe> heh, no exp sorry :P
<persia> In that case, buy your own :p
<wolfe> how much are the related devices?
<persia> The good ones are a couple thousand euro, but you can also get kits for about 300 euro.
<persia> Mostly serial interface, but hacking USB for a kit oughtn't be that bad.
<wolfe> wouldn't a person want the highest quality interface device when writing a driver?
<persia> There's some talk about consumer devices coming out soon for a couple hundred euros, but some of them are skin galvanic detectors, so really process muscle changes rather than brainwaves.
<persia> Probably.  If anyone ever takes me up on the offer of writing a driver for one that works cleanly with X, I'd send them one of the ones approved for medical use in Germany.
<wolfe> I'm guessin they all only work with Windows? :)
<persia> Most of them only work with specialised software right now.  There's a couple generalised drivers for Windows (old versions) for mouse pointing and MIDI, and some simple linux drivers for MIDI.
<persia> On the other hand, nobody seems to really believe that the devices exist, so most of the drivers are either made for specific sales niches (e.g. OCS's new skin galvinometer for improved game play in Vista) or research purposes.
<wolfe> wouldn't the drivers need to be a type of processing engine? Do the devices send a converted data stream of raw data?
<persia> Most of the devices seem to send some sort of waveform signal, so one has to do DSP, etc. to translate this into something useful.
<persia> As different devices have a different number of sensors, they provide multiple streams of data.
<wolfe> so its more than just knowing input device drivers... :)
<persia> There are a couple standards for the data delivery, but nothing yet adopted industry-wide.
<persia> Well, yes, but I figure anyone who actually wants the project is likely to ask useful questions and look up the devices a bit :)  Also, there are plenty of good tools for pulling digital signals from analog waveforms already available in Ubuntu.
<persia> Also, it's a learning process: one probably doesn't want to trigger a mouse movement up based on the user's thought "up", but rather on some arbitrary signal, and to have a training GUI that helps users learn how to move the mouse, type, set focus to windows, etc.
<persia> As there's already lots of code that does the basework, it's getting the existing drivers (of various sorts) mangled into the linux input event framework and putting together a training GUI that I see as the main problems remaining to be solved.
<persia> As an example, if one looks at the MIDI driver, that controls 128 independent 7-bit axes, along with 128 possible event triggers, each with a corresponding optional 7-bit value (ignoring tricky stuff one can do with MIDI).
<persia> This is more than one needs to handle a few mouse axes (W,X,Y,Z,Rw,Rx,Ry,Rz are all that the kernel defines), and some keys.
<wolfe> *grin* you know it would be quite odd if someone were able to think a tune with an instrument selection and have the music pop on the screen.
<persia> Supposedly, that works now, if one configures denemo and lilypond correctly for MIDI input, but I suspect it's a bit buggy.
<wolfe> sorry, you said MIDI, I've been dinking around with making a video :P I hate not having a real 83+ keyboard
<wolfe> persia: if someone wrote a driver, apple would take it and package it all up for use with Garageband and their other software, heh.
<wolfe> >:/
<wolfe> and I bet they wouldn't contribute anything back
<persia> Well, that hasn't happened yet.
<wolfe> persia: apple uses lots of open source software in osx though. When the main developer said "no" to Apple's request to relicense the libntfs library, that story seemed to make it large. Some people even said nasty things about the developer because he said no >:/
<wolfe> since the libntfs filesystem library seems to be GPL
<mneptok> Apple uses the BSD license
<mneptok> Big Scary Duopoly
 * wolfe likes the BSD license, but I like when people well... give back? :)
<persia> wolfe: I don't really follow apple development, but I know that nobody ships BCI drivers with the default OS.
<wolfe> I mean, sure... Apple contributes greatly to GCC. I dont see too much of apple giving app code out unlss its samples.
<jamesh> or WebKit
<wolfe> persia: brain comptuer interface?
<persia> wolfe: Yes.
<jamesh> [of course, with WebKit the original software license kind of forced their hand]
<persia> Nifty.  Google just told me about a 16-lead EEG system with USB for only 1200 USD (http://www.contecmed.com/cart/product_show.asp?id=47).  Perhaps I have the pricing wrong (because I was only looking at prebuilt headsets).
<wolfe> persia: isn't there anything well.. headset like around that price?
<persia> wolfe: I've not seen it actually shipping yet, but I don't follow as closely as in the past.
<wolfe> I suppose people would still have to use electrode glue on a headset as well to get the best contact possible..
<persia> This is probably why skin galvinometers are becoming more popular.
<wolfe> persia: you don't want to shave your head bald to use an input device so you don't have to wash your hair out every time you use the computer? :)
<persia> wolfe: I suppose.  I'm happy with only a couple electrodes, and I'd shave my temples and skull base for that.
 * slangasek reads the last few lines of scrollback, and starts squinting upwards to check whether we're talking about tasps
<persia> No.  It's brain -> computer.  tasps are more about computer -> brain.
<wolfe> I didn't realize there was so much consumer software out there for BI devices
<wolfe> BCI
<wolfe> BioExplorer looks interesting
<wolfe> persia: do you know much on this device? http://www.transparentcorp.com/products/eeg/pendant.php
<persia> Yeah, there's a fair bit, but not yet something where I can plug in a list of supported devices, and use my computer without my hands.
<wolfe> pendant device for 600USD..
<wolfe> without software or electrodes
<persia> No, I hadn't hear about that.  That's well into reasonable pricing.  Thanks for the link!  It's only 2-electrode, but one can still do a lot with that.
<wolfe> persia: seems so :) the BioEra package, the open source one, has a little game you can drive around in a car.
 * persia celebrates another convert to the school of thought that DWIM oughtn't really be that hard to implement
<wolfe> *grin*
<wolfe> persia: what I'd love to see is an actual device like that pendant which can just be worn on the head but in a not so obvious fashion. I can think of a thousand different tasks I'd love to do if there was software making system administration really easy.
<wolfe> :( wishful thinking
<StevenK> wolfe: Sure, and then you think 'rm -rf /' and it executes it
<persia> wolfe: The trick is to tape the electrodes to your HMD, so nobody can see that it's not the audio feed.
<dholbach> good morning
<persia> (and there are "covert" HMDs that fit in mirrorshades: Oakley even sells a pair)
<wolfe> StevenK: I've plenty of self control, especially to not open a new email to swear at an employee and send..
<wolfe> *googles*
<dholbach> fabbione: good morning - how are you doing?
<dholbach> do you think you could take a look at bug 259579 when you have the time?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259579 in redhat-cluster "cman init script points at an incorrect doc path" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259579
<fabbione> dholbach: hey.. barely awake :)
 * dholbach hugs fabbione
 * dholbach gets more coffee himself
 * fabbione hugs dholbach 
<LaserJock> dholbach: how often are the (sponsoring) and (patches) refreshed on Harvest?
<dholbach> LaserJock: you need to ask bdmurray - the harvest scripts run every hour and check if there's anything new
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I was actually using it today but nothing has left the list :(
<persia> dholbach: See, this is why every set of opportunities ought have a homepage: so feed admins can be more clearly identified.
<dholbach> persia: I never disagreed with having it - right now I just don't the time :-/
<dholbach> but it shouldn't be too hard to do
<persia> dholbach: Understood :)
<Suckit_> halÃ¶le
<fabbione> who is archive admin today?
<jpds> fabbione: seb according to the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration
<fabbione> jpds: thanks
<TheMuso> ?C
<TheMuso> ?C
<TheMuso> ugh stuck keys
<asac> ArneGoetje: can you please disable the cron job that updates langpacks? ... tomorrow there will be a change that will break mozilla translations - which Ill have to fix first.
<wgrant> asac: What does NM mean by "Automatic (VPN) addresses only"?
<ArneGoetje> asac: it is disabled. the current ones are still in -proposed
<soren> dholbach: Hey.. Could you test another kvm thing for me?
<dholbach> soren: sure
<tseliot> Riddell: is it a known problem that the menus of QT4 applications are not visible? See this screenshot: http://albertomilone.com/menus.jpg
<tseliot> Riddell: I'm using GNOME
<Riddell> tseliot: nope
<Riddell> not seen that
<Riddell> tseliot: only time I've seen that problem was in pyKDE applications for 4.0
<Riddell> but designer isn't pyKDE
<tseliot> Riddell: I can reproduce the problem only with QT4 apps (such as eric) but not with KDE4 apps (such as Kompare)
<Riddell> tseliot: presumably if you run it with -style=plastique it doesn't have a problem?
<tseliot> Riddell: no, it's only the Oxygen style that causes the problem
<tseliot> Riddell: QtCurve or Cleanlooks work well
<Ng> asac: ooh, much win, I have a working openvpn connection :D
<wgrant> I finally got VPN plugins working with NM0.7 tonight - it took a few reboots... is that intentional/known?
<geser> sounds like windows, reboot till it works :)
<wgrant> geser: That is why I brought it up. It was horrifyingly like Windows.
<ogra> seb128, my evo shows me 5 unread mails in Trash since yesterday (there are definately none) and one in Junk since this morning ...
<ogra> do you have anything open about that ?
<seb128> known issue
<ogra> oki
<seb128> no bug upstream knows about it so no need to create launchpad noise
<ogra> good, thanks
<Ng> asac: hmm, so I am connected and stuff, but nm-openvpn-service is now eating a whole core :/
<Ng> it seems to be tightly looping on poll()s on some sockets
<Ng> and even after disconnecting, it's still doing it :/
<Ng> oh, now it stopped
<YokoZar> You know, I was just thinking that it would have been really neat if the first Ubuntu release were named adjective animal
 * YokoZar is editing the wikipedia article
<Ng> YokoZar: warty warthog wasn't adjective animal?
<YokoZar> Ng: No, I mean "adjective animal" as a release name ;)
<Ng> ah
<YokoZar> That way we'd have started alphabetical.  And been cute from the getgo
<asac> wgrant: not sure. where do you read that?
<slangasek> kirkland: <sigh> well, I'm almost ready to upload, aside from a slight bug that causes /etc/pam.d/common-* to be filled with endless duplicated lines
<asac> Ng: cool. (not the core eating thign)
<slangasek> kirkland: I'll have to fix that in the morning :/
<Ng> asac: at least it works, I'll check out the CPU usage thing later
<asac> Ng: which process is eating the cpu`
<asac> ?
<Ng> asac: nm-openvpn-service
<Ng> strace showed it doing poll() and read() and nothing else
<YokoZar> I was about to write "using an adjective and an animal alliteration" only to discover that that, too, is a long-ass alliteration
<asac> Ng: so either looping thing or hard-crypto?
<wgrant> asac: IPv4 Settings when creating a VPN.
<Ng> asac: I'd be surprised if it takes a whole core of a core2duo to do the encryption and LZO. Also, doesn't "read(4, "", 1024)" imply that it didn't read anything?
<asac> wgrant: "addresses only" means that you will only get the addresses from VPN ;)
<asac> wgrant: e.g. you set dns + search domains manually
<asac> wgrant: not sure about routes
<wgrant> asac: Ahh. I think that could be made more clear.
<wgrant> (DNS servers are still addresses...)
<asac> wgrant: well. that text was just changed to that ;)
<asac> because users complained that nobody knows what a DNS is  ;)
<wgrant> I think it should be radio buttons, as it just affects those two lower widgets. Somewhat like how Windows XP does it.
<Ng> asac: that config dialog certainly isn't easy to use, but it's perfect for power users
<Ng> the routes bit works fine, I can tell it to ignore automatic routes and just set one for the /24 of the VPN network with a higher metric than the default dev route
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> I am using Network Manager to connect to openvpn
<kaushal> every time i need to connect to openvpns server i need to add
<kaushal> sudo ip route add 10.0.0.0/8 via 10.10.50.12 dev tap0
<Ng> kaushal: which version of NM?
<kaushal> Ng: nm-applet 0.6.6
<Ng> kaushal: hmm, mine was ok when I set the "Only use VPN for these addresses" option and gave 10.8.0.0/24 in the settings for the VPN
<kaushal> Ng: where can i find openvpn client configs using Network Manager
<Ng> kaushal: (btw this is offtopic for #ubuntu-devel).
<kaushal> Ng: I am aware of it
<kaushal> if you can help me where can i look out for help
<ogra> Riddell, can yu acces wiki.kubuntu.org atm ?
<ogra> (i dont get response from wiki.edubuntu.org and kubuntu seems to be the same here)
<fabbione> seb128: ping?
<seb128> hi fabbione
<fabbione> hey dude
<fabbione> seb128: i saw you are the archive admin of the day ;)
<fabbione> seb128: do you have 2 minutes?
<seb128> yes
<fabbione> awesome
<fabbione> seb128: main src package openais has been splitted by upstream in 2 source packages.
<fabbione> i have the split ready.. just need to know if:
<fabbione> - new source need an official SRU (code is the same as it was before the split and it's already in main)
<fabbione> - do you prefer a normal upload or copy from ppa?
<fabbione> - there are 3 new binaries, but i am sure that's not a problem at all
<seb128> fabbione: s/SRU/MIR?
<fabbione> whops
<fabbione> yes MIR sorry
 * fabbione is not exactly awake today
<seb128> no need of a new MIR
<fabbione> ok
<seb128> normal upload please
<fabbione> ok
<seb128> and the new binaries are no issue ;-)
<fabbione> indeed ;)
 * fabbione executes seb128's orders
 * seb128 hugs fabbione
<Riddell> seb128: done with syncs for now?
<seb128> Riddell: yes, it's all yours
<seb128> Riddell: thanks for not doing those yesterday :-p
<seb128> had to do over one hundred of those ;-)
<Riddell> seb128: I left you an empty new queue!
<seb128> ok, that's a fair deal then ;-)
<fabbione> seb128: all done
<fabbione> Subject: New: corosync 0.91-0ubuntu2 (source)
<fabbione> this is the new source that will spit the 3 new packages
<fabbione> the other uploads (openais and redhat-cluster) will just go dep-wait till corosync is sorted
<seb128> fabbione: cool
<seb128> will do the newing
<fabbione> seb128: thanks a lot for your help
<fabbione> next major change is going to be the redhat-cluster SONAME
<fabbione> but not today
 * fabbione needs to do that upstream first
<siretart> seb128: hey there. Thanks for processing bug #259288, but you didn't think the latest version (and the version I requested)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259288 in wpasupplicant "Please sync wpasupplicant 0.6.4-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259288
<kaushal> where can i get help regarding Network Manager
<directhex> what's the correct procedure for adding a package which requires itself to compile to the archive?
<cjwatson> ScottK: you reverted the dget change I sponsored saying that it's only needed to work around a PPA-related bug. I disagree - surely it's useful if you happen to have a URL to a .dsc on launchpadlibrarian.net, regardless of whether it's in a PPA
<cjwatson> ScottK: and even if it's a PPA bug it seems useful to work around it for the moment
 * cjwatson takes it to the bug
<sistpoty|work> infinity: in particular, directhex wants to add vbnc to ubuntu (VB .net compiler, written in... VB.net)... maybe you have some hints?
<directhex> meanwhile, i still need to get write access to the appropriate section of the alioth svn repo the packaging work is stored in
<NCommander> directhex, is this the Visual Basic mono compiler?
<directhex> NCommander, aye
<NCommander> If memory serves, isn't the only way to build that from scratch is use a binary of the VBC, or use Microsoft's visual basic?
<directhex> NCommander, aye.
<NCommander> (I would cite for the record that are packages in Ubuntu that require themselves to exist to be bootstrapped)
<directhex> NCommander, orig.tar.gz ships with a vbnc.exe for bootstrapping
<NCommander> gnat, gdc, mono itself used to
<NCommander> Well, if its vbnc.exe, then isn't it by definition a .NET app?
<directhex> yep
<directhex> NCommander, i just want a definitive answer to the question "should the source package use bootstrap binaries, or should it depend on itself" - and if the latter, what's the procedure?
<NCommander> The later is what's used in Debian
<NCommander> It involves someone manually building the package for that architecture and uploading it though
<NCommander> *did it for GNAT on m68k)
<NCommander> multiverse allows for binaries
<NCommander> Its probably best if you package the binary of the vb compiler, with the depends on mono, and then have the mono vb package depend on that, or itself
<NCommander> That way it can also bootstrap itself automatically on new architectures
<directhex> well it's a managed app, so it's arch:all
<NCommander> Right :-P
<NCommander> Well, you could put the binaries in multiverse, upload the compiler to universe, then request removal of the original one if the archive admins can't add a binary directory to the repo.
<sistpoty|work> actually it's best to have the final packaging build-depend on itself (as soon as its bootstrapped)
<NCommander> That's the Debian policy
<NCommander> AFAIK
<sistpoty|work> and in regards to bootstrapping, it's best to ask a buildd-admin for help (that's why I referred to you here)
<directhex> it's *really* not hard to do either. i just need direction
<directhex> i'll build both now. a self-bootstrapping and a self-depending package
<NCommander> Your dedication to mono is amazing ;-)
<directhex> i like the technology, and i dislike the blanket "use suse" response handed out in official channels whenever debbuntu isn't behaving 100%
<directhex> oersonally VB makes me vomit, but some people need it badly
<seb128> siretart: fixed now
<NCommander> My solution is to convert VB.NET apps to C#
<NCommander> THere really isn't that much difference between the two
<directhex> NCommander, nice solution!
<directhex> NCommander, i could run monodis on vbnc.exe, then depend on ilasm...
<NCommander> directhex, there are automated tools that require it
<NCommander> er, do that
<NCommander> wait
<NCommander> what O_O?
<NCommander> Your going to convert the compiler to C# .... and then have it build itself?!
<NCommander> *twich*
<directhex> NCommander, nah, i like the depend-on-self solution
<NCommander> then what was the nice solution?
<directhex> NCommander, but someone somewhere needs vbnc in $PATH for the package to build
<NCommander> ... I feel like I'm missing something in context
<directhex> NCommander, the nice solution was some prpopsed evil to work around shipping "binaries"
<NCommander> Well, you could covert the compiler to bootstrap itself, and then recompile it
<sistpoty|work> directhex: I suggest that you start with the depend on self solution, get the package reviewed and we'll fiddle with bootstrapping issues once its in the archive, ok?
<sistpoty|work> (once the source is in the archive even)
<NCommander> how can I help?
<sistpoty|work> NCommander: review the package for example ;)
<NCommander> How do I do that O_o?, I'm no MOTU
<sistpoty|work> NCommander: anyone can comment on revu (unless you broke that :P)
<NCommander> probably :-)
<cjwatson> directhex: definitely don't do bootstrap binaries - talk with infinity to get a manual bootstrap done
<siretart> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> siretart: np, sorry for syncing the wrong version before
<NCommander> directhex, I was referring to if I must compile a VB.NET app on linux before the advent of the VB.NET compiler
<directhex> ick. messy
<raphink> NCommander: actually, rewiewing is a good training to become a MOTU
<NCommander> I can't comment on REVU without a package getting marked needs-work :-/
<raphink> no?
<NCommander> I'm a REVU admin, which also marks me an MOTU in revu's database, regardless of the truth
<raphink> hmmm not really
<raphink> the REVU db doesn't know about MOTU and non MOTU iirc
<raphink> it knows about uploaders, reviewers and REVU admins
<raphink> you're a MOTU if you belong to the MOTU group on LP
<huats> does anyone has ever seen a mann file (with 2 n)... ?
<cjwatson> huats: tcl used to do that
<cjwatson> huats: nowadays it tends to be man3/foo.3tcl.gz instead
<cjwatson> huats: the list of valid man sections, technically, goes 1-9 l n o
<cjwatson> huats: but we only use 1-9 nowadays
<huats> cjwatson: ok
<huats> cjwatson: because I am packaging a tcl lib
<huats> and I have a mann dir with a foo.n
<huats> so it is the man page :)
<cjwatson> /usr/share/doc/man-db/man-db-manual.txt.gz documents it as "new [obsolete]"
<huats> ok
<huats> cjwatson: so do you think I might not include it ?
<directhex> dpkg-deb: building package `mono-vbnc' in `../mono-vbnc_1.9+dfsg-0ubuntu1_all.deb'.
<cjwatson> huats: it should go in /usr/share/man/man3/foo.3tcl.gz instead
<ScottK> cjwatson: I just replied in the bug.  I'm sorry for doing something that felt abrupt.  Details in the bug.
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<tkamppeter> ion_, hi
<ion_> Hi tkamppeter
<cjwatson> soren: FYI, that tasksel change of mine does work as far as it goes, but there's some complicated cdebconf bug that makes the display completely wrong
<tkamppeter> Ion_, I have seen your http://heh.fi/tmp/cups/01-adobe-ps. This is for the Debian SVN?
<cjwatson> soren: (specifically, I get the text of debian-installer/dummy rather than of tasksel/first, although the text for tasksel/first in templates.dat is correct afterwards
<ion_> tkamppeter: Yes, but itâs not fully working yet, because i havenât managed to produce a .types file that recognizes the DRMed PS files as other than application/postscript. I will make a version of the patch for Ubuntu CUPS as soon as the Debian svn patch is ready.
<ion_> tkamppeter: priority(200) didnât affect it, and i didnât get around to figuring out why yet.
<soren> cjwatson: Um.. Ok :) Sounds like fun.
<tkamppeter> ion_, for me every PS file was detected as DRMed (without your patch).
<ion_> tkamppeter: Huh. Strange.
<tkamppeter> ion_, it seems that the CUPS auto-typing is somewhat buggy and we must find a workaround to distinguish between DRMed and non DRMed PS.
<ion_> tkamppeter: Yeah
<ion_> tkamppeter: One alternative would be just processing *all* postscript files with the filter. ;-) The gawk script is fast, it wouldnât be much of a performance hit.
<ion_> tkamppeter: But yeah, it would be best to fix the detection.
<tkamppeter> ion_, so we should pass all through the filter for now and report a bug against CUPS about the broken auto-detection-
<ion_> tkamppeter: Well, on my box, nothing passes through it.
<ion_> tkamppeter: To make everything pass through it deterministically, we probably should change the /etc/cups/mime.types application/postscript entry to say application/x-noredistillps.
<tkamppeter> ion_, more or less like that
<tkamppeter> yes exactly that, rename application/postscript to application/x-noredistillps and create a new application/postscript without autodetection rule.
<tkamppeter> Add a .convs rule converting application/x-noredistillps to application/postscript with your script
<tkamppeter> This will stay this way until the CUPS bug is fixed.
<ion_> tkamppeter: Iâll update my patch, a moment.
<Mithrandir> is it just for me that firefox 3.0.1 in hardy (amd64) is hanging so much it's completely unusable?
<directhex> only with nspluginwrapper, IME
<Mithrandir> no such thing installed here.
<ogra> nspluginwrapper should exactly achieve the opposite
<ogra> (make ff not hang on flash sites)
<directhex> ogra, generally it does. usually it makes any instances of flash just disappear. like magic!
<directhex> it's like flashblock, only more reliable
<maswan> Mithrandir: It was for the brief period I had either flash or java in the browser, but when I got rid fo them things started working just fine
<Mithrandir> maswan: I have neither, so I have no idea why it seems to hang every now and then.  For something like 30s.
<asac> lifeless: http://benjamin.smedbergs.us/blog/2008-04-17/reviewing-merges-in-mercurial/ ... interesting POV imo .... what can bzr do to help reviewing the actual merge-changes done?
<ion_> tkamppeter: Updated the patch, building CUPS now to test.
<vikram> init-top in initrd, is that called before /sbin/init or just after?
<BenC> Ok, I've had enough of evo eating my inbox now...
<BenC> Who's responsible for evo so I can get this fixed, ASAP?
<vikram> haha,
<vikram> you're talking about evolution?
<BenC> yep
<vikram> i was faithful to that @#$%^ for 6yrs
<BenC> I've been using it for 3, and it never screwed me over till now
<vikram> i'm a much happier person after moving to thunderbird
<vikram> +sunbird
<BenC> I'm think it's a 64-bit issue, else more people would have noticed
<tkamppeter> ion_, there must also be a line only containing
<tkamppeter> application)/postscript
<tkamppeter> application/postscript
<ogra> BenC, it works fine for me on x86 here
<ogra> i only had minor issues this time
<ogra> BenC, seb128 maintains it for us
<tkamppeter> in /etc/cups/mime.types, to define application/postscript
<BenC> ogra: x86-32? I'm on -64 :)
<BenC> seb128: ping
<seb128> hi
<ogra> are you up to date ? there were some fixes recently
<seb128> what evolution-data-server version do you use?
<BenC> seb128: 2.23.90.1-0ubuntu1
<seb128> and what is the issue?
<seb128> using local boxes, imap, other?
<BenC> seb128: I get weird things like Junk folder and Trash folder highlighted like that have new mail in them...when I empty it all, it shows -X in the status
<BenC> seb128: local mboxes
<BenC> seb128: in my Inbox, it keeps zeroing out my mail (not the stuff flagged as Junk or Trash)
<BenC> seb128: confirmed with mutt
<seb128> urg
<seb128> 2.23.90 had issue that should be fixed in 2.23.90.1
<seb128> did you restart evolution since the update?
<BenC> seb128: I removed everything from ~/.evolution/mail/local/ (backed it up) and started fresh, and it keeps happening
<BenC> seb128: the .1 update was installed yesterday, and I've done "evolution --force-shutdown" about 10 times since then
<seb128> (on the phone)
<ogra> BenC, its a kernel issue ... you simply forgot to modprobe evolution :P
 * BenC modprobe chuckle
<ion_> tkamppeter: A moment still, the conversion still failed with one of my test PS files.
<seb128> re
<BenC> seb128: For instance, on a fresh restart, after deleting all indexes and cmeta, Trash shows 858 deleted, but when I ^A, it shows only 429 selected
<seb128> BenC: the junk and trash count issues is a known bug and is being worked upstream, it's mostly cosmetic though
<seb128> right, trash count is broken
<BenC> seb128: Ok, then corrupting my Inbox is the main issue...sometimes it shows dupes of every email (and double count) and sometimes it zeroes out all of my messages (headers remain)
<BenC> seb128: usually this happens in combination with emptying Junk and/or Trash, which is why I associated the count bug with it
<ion_> tkamppeter: Huh. This fails: /usr/lib/cups/filter/psadobedrmtops <printoutput.ps | /usr/bin/ps2pdf13 -dAutoRotatePages=/None -dAutoFilterColorImages=false -dColorImageFilter=/FlateEncode -dNOPLATFONTS -dWRITESYSTEMDICT - /dev/null
<BenC> seb128: I've tried pruning my Inbox by hand (with mutt), and it still will end up corrupted somehow
<ion_> tkamppeter: This works: /usr/lib/cups/filter/psadobedrmtops <printoutput.ps >foo.ps; /usr/bin/ps2pdf13 -dAutoRotatePages=/None -dAutoFilterColorImages=false -dColorImageFilter=/FlateEncode -dNOPLATFONTS -dWRITESYSTEMDICT foo.ps /dev/null
<sistpoty|work> BenC: disk/partition full? (or did evo copy some code of kmail there *g*)?
<BenC> disk has 80Gigs free
<BenC> seb128: not sure if this is pertinent, but on console I keep seeing this: (evolution:25371): camel-WARNING **: Error during searching SELECT uid FROM 'Templates' WHERE ((deleted  = 1) and ((deleted != 1) and (junk  = 1))): no such table: Templates
<BenC> seb128: same message for Outbox
<ion_> tkamppeter: Should i just make the pstopdf filter collect the document to a tempfile before processing if it comes from stdin?
<seb128> BenC: well, the corruption issue is exactly why evolution-data-server 2.23.90.1 has been rolled and other users confirmed it fixes the issue for them, did you upgrade all the libe* too?
<BenC> seb128: I did a full update just before msg'ing you
<tkamppeter> ion_, are you intending to put your new DRM filter into pstopdf? This is also a possibility, as the change is only needed for converting the PS to PDF.
<ion_> tkamppeter: Hmm, good idea. Iâll do that.
<seb128> BenC: can you make sure there is evolution* process running, start a new evolution and tell me what you do to get a corruption
<BenC> seb128: I made a mistake....1 update just got installed this morning...let me make sure I can reproduce the corruption still
<seb128> BenC: when you do get a corruption are mails displayed as "?"
<BenC> seb128: yes, mails were display as "?"
<seb128> that's definitively what 2.23.90.1 should fix
<BenC> seb128: right now I can't empty my trash :)
<seb128> right, trash is known to be broken
<seb128> they are having a hard time to get the summary disk issues fixed and focussed on the important ones first
<seb128> trash and counts should be fixed for next week
<ion_> tkamppeter: This seems to work. http://heh.fi/patches/cups/01-adobe-ps
<tkamppeter> ion_, with DRM handling in pstopdf no extra mime type needs to be defined.
<ion_> tkamppeter: If that looks okay to you, i can make the Ubuntu patch.
<ion_> kopfgeldjaeger: Thanks a lot for the information!
<tkamppeter> ion_, is OK, go ahead with the Ubuntu patch.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> if you're talkin 'bout the "* Kopfi|offline is now know as Kopfgeldjaeger" - I use a bnc, so it's not more information than "* Kopfgeldjaeger has joined #ubuntu-devel"
<ogra> seb128, i'm playing with evo in a mobile setup atm ... do you think it would be possible to get a (gconf switchable) button added for the "goto next unread mail" function ? its kind of tricky to use evo without keyboard
<ogra> (not urgent or important, just somethng i think about/play with atm)
<seb128> why not
<seb128> I'll not work on it though
<ogra> well, its something i'd like to see upstream indeed :)
<ion_> tkamppeter: http://heh.fi/patches/cups-ubuntu/01-adobe-ps
<ion_> tkamppeter: Hmm. Could -dWRITESYSTEMDICT pose a security problem? I wonder if it actually allows PostScript to turn off SAFER... Do you know any ghostscript folks?
<ion_> Upstream, that is.
<ion_> tkamppeter: We still could just remove the DRM section, that would be easiest. :-P
<ion_> tkamppeter: Hey, we could prepend the lines with comment characters! That isnât removing. ;-)
<Chipzz> ion_: good luck getting the court convinced of that ;)
<tkamppeter> ion_, you can discuss the -dWRITESYSTEMDICT stuff on #ghostscript here on FreeNode. This is the channel of GS upstream.
<BenC> seb128: so far so good since the .1 update
<BenC> seb128: guess my timeline of when I updated to that was a little off
<seb128> BenC: ok good, let me know if you have any other issue, the trash and counts issue are known and being worked
<ebel> Several applications install in the menu as "$NAME $TYPE" (eg "Firefox Web Browser" vs just "Firefox"). Is this a formal ubuntu guideline? or is there a name for this kind of name format?
<seb128> ebel: it's upstream choice
<ebel> OK. I thought this had something to do with the Egoless desktop and all that good stuff
<ion_> tkamppeter: http://heh.fi/patches/cups/01-adobe-ps
<tkamppeter> ion_, so ps2ps generates new PostScript out of the input and this makes the DRM disappear?
<ion_> tkamppeter: Yep.
<ion_> tkamppeter: ps2ps is much slower than the gawk script, but this solution doesnât pose any security problems such as -dWRITESYSTEMDICT.
<tkamppeter> Ion_, so the DRMed files will print but slowly. With up to 4 times a renderer running: ps2ps and ps2pdf in pstopdf and pdftops and Ghostscript in foomatic-rip.
<tkamppeter> But it works.
<ion_> tkamppeter: Yep
<ion_> tkamppeter: Is that patch ok?
<stgraber> superm1: So the new fglrx still doesn't work with our X server ?
<superm1> stgraber, define "new".  was there an 8-8 release that i didn't hear about yet?
<superm1> stgraber, 8-7 still doesn't work
<stgraber> superm1: 8.8
<stgraber> superm1: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_catalyst_evolution&num=1
<stgraber> "What this release lacks though is X Server 1.5 / X.Org 7.4 support or and any improvements for WINE performance."
<superm1> stgraber, <shrug>
<superm1> well this is getting bad then
<stgraber> I understand that as "Will still break with Intrepid"
<stgraber> yeah, I don't really like waiting one more month, we are getting close to the release then with still no working driver for ATI ...
<ion_> tkamppeter: Removed the mention about gawk from the changelog, updated the Ubuntu patch.
<superm1> stgraber, well at very worst it can be brought in as an SRU, but that would be quite nasty to have to do
<superm1> stgraber, at least "proper" 2.6.26 support got added around, so that's half the battle
<stgraber> how easily can we workaround X to have that missing function ?
<superm1> stgraber, i'm not sure.  will have to ask bryce i suppose
<superm1> i'm not sure how critical that symbol ends up being
<stgraber> let's hope it's possible to fix it that way, I don't like the idea of releasing without fglrx and have it being an SRU. it's the kind of thing we need to be tested before a release ...
<superm1> stgraber, well at least for now, jockey isn't depending on the modaliases since it's broke - but this will make a horrible upgrade scenario indeed for people going hardy->intrepid otherwise
<superm1> stgraber, i'll upload the new version at least so it's there
<slangasek> kirkland: ok, /now/ it's uploaded \o/
<kirkland> slangasek: cool, thanks!
<slangasek> kirkland: in the implementation process, I made a couple of changes to the config file format for simplicity's sake; please check the examples in debian/pam-configs/ within the package
<kirkland> slangasek: k
<slangasek> (which is also available from lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/pam/ubuntu)
<bryce> superm1, stgraber: well, if the September release works, we can probably get that in post-FF.  We've done that before.  Patching X to include the missing symbol is of course possible, but could be tricky (unless someone has already developed a patch)
<jcristau> superm1, stgraber: miZeroLineScreenIndex is not coming back, fwiw
<superm1> bryce, do you know if anyone has investigated the feasibility of the patching possibly from the fedora side?  They've had this for a long time
<superm1> ah
<bryce> superm1: nope I've not looked.  I did ask ATI about it last week
<jcristau> well unless you undo the devprivates rework in the x server
<jcristau> but, that sounds like pain
<stgraber> bryce: the september release will likely be the week of the beta freeze, so we'd have less than a month to test it and make sure it works with everything (suspend/resume and other funny things) ... :(
<superm1> bryce, what did they indicate?  maybe a hotfix driver sooner would be possible hopefully?
<jcristau> (you'd presumably also have to undo pci-rework, which, eh, would pretty much mean reverting to x 1.4)
<bryce> stgraber: yeah I know it's risky...  maybe we can prepare to do some thorough testing once it's out.  In worst case, we can always pull and revert if it shows too many regressions.
<bryce> superm1: I don't know what I can say giving that NDA
<superm1> bryce, oh right
<stgraber> bryce: are we sure it'll be fixed in next month release ?
<bryce> let's just say I'm really looking forward to 1.5 finally getting *officially* released
<bryce> stgraber: I hope so but don't think we can count on it; we'll need to test it once it's available and make the decision then
<bryce> I talk to ATI again next week, so will ask again there
<anilg> ï»¿anyone know the command to check all the files installed by a package that was installed by apt-get?
<anilg> i want the list of all the files installed by say package 'pidgin'
<Chipzz> anilg: wrong channel
<sbeattie> dpkg -L pidgin
<anilg> Chipzz: sorry.. off to #ubuntu
<tjaalton> what choice is there if fglrx 8-9 does finally support xserver 1.5? upload and cross your fingers..
<tjaalton> stgraber: and testing a blob sounds strange, since we can't fix it anyway
<superm1> tjaalton, there are integration pieces that need to be tested though, eg into jockey
<superm1> and whether it should be offered to people
<tjaalton> superm1: well, that
<stgraber> tjaalton: IIRC with hardy some things were workarounded for the suspend-to-ram, like saving the video state or similar stuff (I don't know much about that)
<tjaalton> superm1: but isn't that already done with the current (broken) driver?
<superm1> tjaalton, for what could be tested with it, yes
<superm1> jockey still doesn't depend on it's modaliases so as to not break more boxes right now
<superm1> and there were little things that popped up as possible issues, such as when disabling it not removing all the packages that need to go
<tjaalton> stgraber: well, quirks _can_ be SRU'd
<tjaalton> superm1: I'd say fglrx should not be offered for ->r5xx which have 3D support now
<tjaalton> but maybe that has been discussed already
<superm1> tjaalton, no hasn't been discussed as of yet.
<davmor2> Guys I just hit an issue and wanted to check if it was known.  Ekiga seems to just hang up on hardy now rather than making a call :(
<mkrufky> superm1: u think we can get that new w_scan-20080815 into mainline ubuntu?  it has atsc/qam support and GPLv2 licensing now
<mkrufky> bug # 199398
<mkrufky> hmm, no more ubotu, huh?
<Pici> bug 199398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 199398 in debian "[needs-packaging] w_scan" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199398
<Pici> it got confused with that extra space
<mkrufky> gotcha
<ogra> whats the advantage beyond the scan tool of dvb-utils ?
<mkrufky> scan inside dvb-apps requires a scan file
<mkrufky> w_scan does an ACTUAL frequency scan
<slangasek> kirkland: do you think you'll be working on your end of the pam stuff today?  I'm happy to block out as much time as needed to make sure this is working, and fix it if not; but if you aren't working on it today I'll probably work on other things that I've been neglecting for the past few days as a result of this
<mkrufky> ie .... w_scan actually scans the sky for signals.  where scan from dvb-apps just scans a supplied list of frequencies
<ogra> which can last several hours if you dont have a predefined range like scan uses
<Q-FUNK> howdy!
<Q-FUNK> slangasek: would you have any comment on bug #255991 for the hardy-proposed question?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255991 in xserver-xorg-video-geode "xf86-video-geode:  DDC probing broken on GX2/CS5535 since 2.9.0 (patch)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255991
<sebner> slangasek: is there a reason why we don't autosync kernel-patch-viewos? It isn't on the blacklist though
<slangasek> sebner: from what I see, it is autosynced
<slangasek> which would be an error, we aren't supposed to have /any/ kernel patch packages...
<sebner> slangasek: ok but the intrepid version is from 2006 and there were versions after 2006 ;)
<superm1> ogra, mkrufky hours?  I thought i've seen runs from w-scan within 15-30 minutes?
<mkrufky> *I* didnt say hours
<mkrufky> lol
<slangasek> sebner: were any of them besides the 0.20080616-1 upload last week actually uploaded to Debian?
<mkrufky> comparing an ATSC scan using dvb-apps vs w_scan, i might take 20 minutes with dvb-apps and 6 minutes with w_scan
<slangasek> sebner: (if so, why does Debian testing still only have 0.2006xxx?)
<superm1> mkrufky, yeah we should be able to do something now i suppose.  i'll poke the guy that had it ready in debian, and see if he'll pull it.  if not we can try to add it locally
<mkrufky> superm1: it would be key to use the latest release
<sebner> slangasek: yes, dunnno (but we sync from unstable so nvm)
<mkrufky> superm1: also.... there is that "other" package that i already uploaded to lp
<ogra> superm1, i used to use dvb-scanaid before ... that used to walk the full availbale german rnage of dvb frequencies ... last time i gave up after 3h
<mkrufky> 258479, superm1
<superm1> bug 258479
<ogra> i guess it dependson the country you are in any the type of dvb you use
<ubottu> Bug 258479 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/258479 is private
<sebner> slangasek: ah it seems that the more kernel versions are in the changelog but didn't get uploaded O_o
<mkrufky> heh... i hid it from the bot on purpose ;-)
<slangasek> sebner: right, that's what I thought :)
<mkrufky> superm1: the package in that bug report is based on the original package that you created, but updated to the 20080815 release
<sebner> slangasek: kk, sry for the noise. so no reason to sync anyway?
<superm1> mkrufky, oh right.  well lets see what debian guys say.  if they dont respond by the end of the week, lets package it for ubuntu
<mkrufky> awesome :-D
<slangasek> sebner: well, I would think that we should be removing rather than syncing
<sebner> ^^
<sebner> slangasek: kay, thx :)
<slangasek> Q-FUNK: commented on the bug
<Q-FUNK> slangasek: thanks!
<ogra> humm ... upstream hal suggests to put fdi files for touchscreens in the evtouch package instead of hal-info ... but that will get us a dependency on hal into xserver-xorg-input-evtouch ... bryce does that make sense ?
<Q-FUNK> slangasek: ack.  should I open a separate SRU bug for that?
<Q-FUNK> slangasek: alternately, since 2.10.x introduces OLPC support, would it be an acceptable new uptream to introduce via SRU?
<bryce> ogra, interesting; I'm not opposed to it (we were planning on putting some fdi stuff into xserver at one point); what does pitti think?
<bryce> ogra: I see the evdev does not have dependencies on hal, which makes me think that putting a hal dependency on evtouch would be incorrect.  But I'm far from a hal guru
<jcristau> bryce: imo the driver shouldn't depend on hal. xserver-xorg may want to recommend it though
<superm1> bryce, i thought pitti was on vacation for another week or so
<bryce> superm1: oh, could be, I didn't see a note on it
<bryce> jcristau: that's sort of the impression I'm getting
<tkamppeter> ion_ the patch for the Debian SVN is OK. Do you also have a debdiff for the Ubuntu CUPS package?
<bryce> ogra: could you pastebin the exact suggestion that the hal upstream made?  (and who made it?)
<ogra> danny kukawa
<ogra> bryce, http://paste.ubuntu.com/39188/
<bryce> hmm, don't know Danny
<bryce> jcristau: I was about to suggest next to ask debian what their preference would be for device fdi files?  Should they go into hal, or should we make room for them in the xserver?
<jcristau> bryce: shipping them with the drivers seems to make sense
<jcristau> we're already doing that for synaptics
<ion_> tkamppeter: Yes, same URL as before, http://heh.fi/patches/cups-ubuntu/01-adobe-ps
<bryce> jcristau: ah, ship them with the drivers, but not adding a hal dependency, gotcha
<tkamppeter> ion_, thank you very much.
<ogra> bryce, danny is hal upstream now that davidz switched over to do devicekit
<bryce> ah ok
<ogra> i think he has a valid point but i'm not sure how sane it i to have hal deps for all Xinput packages
<ogra> since that would also apply to other non-touchscreen input devices (i.e. wacom)
<tseliot> superm1:  in case you didn't notice, python-xkit is in Intrepid, therefore you can test the code that I wrote for you for mythbuntu
<tseliot> bryce: currently with some experimental code in X-Kit I can read fdi files but I can't manipulate them (lack of time being the only reason)
<tseliot> bryce: however they are planning to move from fdi to something else with DeviceKit
<tseliot> quoting Richard Hughes: "Using udev is simpler and quicker than XML hierarchal FDI files, even with a cache"
<tseliot> I don't know if this will apply to X input too
<bryce> whoa, interesting
<bryce> tseliot: sounds like an intrepid+1 thing in any case
<ogra> well, as i said before they are planning to get the system dbus into the kernel as interface ... as a far target ... if you couple that with a merges hal/udev (which will be devicekit) ....
<ogra> *merged
<ogra> ... then you lose two layers of slowdown ....
<tseliot> bryce: yes, of course, in intrepid +1
<ogra> that wont happen soon ...
<tseliot> ogra: getting dbus into the kernel would be very interesting
<Chipzz> makes me wonder why they didn't bother to get it right the first time
<ogra> they are now :)
<Chipzz> but then again, the whole udev/hal etc stack always felt like it was developped in isolation to me
<slangasek> Toolchain package versions: libc6-dev_2.8~20080505-0ubuntu6 make_3.81-5 dpkg-dev_1.14.20ubuntu5 g++-4.3_4.3.1-9ubuntu1 gcc-4.3_4.3.1-9ubuntu1 binutils_2.18.50.20080814-0ubuntu1 libstdc++6_4.3.1-9ubuntu1 libstdc++6-4.3-dev_4.3.1-9ubuntu1
<slangasek> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<slangasek> infinity: did you break the buildds?
<slangasek> sh: gcc: not found
<slangasek> dpkg-source: warning: Couldn't determine gcc system type, falling back to default (native compilation)
<slangasek> ... what
<elmo> if infinity broke them, he broke them without internet access
<elmo> which would be, well, impressive ;-)
<Chipzz> elmo: I guess the force is strong in him ;)
<slangasek> heh
<ogra> infinite
<slangasek> elmo: ok, who broke them? :)
<jcristau> slangasek: doesn't dpkg-source run outside the chroot, where gcc isn't available?
<elmo> slangasek: AFAICS the chroots haven't changed in a couple of weeks
<elmo> slangasek: link to the build log?
<slangasek> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16965462/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-hppa.pam_1.0.1-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<slangasek> <cough> I have my answer, though
<slangasek> I broke them :P
<slangasek> please hold while I try to figure out why libpam-runtime is broken on the buildds and not for me
<geser> slangasek: I see this message since some time already in the build logs, so this nothing new and it's also in logs for successful builds
<test34> When I have compiz enabled, my mouse stop working when I start the Urban Terror game... anybody else seen this problem or know how to solve it ? (the mouse start working again when I exit the game.. and I need to disable compiz to be able to play with the mouse)
<slangasek> geser: you're sweet to say so, but the only libpam 1.0.1-2 build that failed is the one that happened after libpam-runtime (arch: all) was published.. :)
<test34> I have alpha-4 .. and NVIDIA quadro 1400 with the NVIDIA driver v177
<LaserJock> slangasek: perhaps a quick grep of the number of packages that have a dep on dpatch,quilt,cdbs, or have a VCS field may help to figure out how common having a patchsystem-less package is?
<geser> slangasek: so this is an other problem and has nothing to do with gcc not being found
<tkamppeter> _ion, I have uploaded your new CUPS version now and also committed your patch to the Debian SVN. Thank you very much.
<slangasek> LaserJock: well, it's not just having a patch-system-less package, but having a patch-system-less package that also patches upstream, surely?
<slangasek> geser: oh, you were referring to the gcc message, ok
<ion_> tkamppeter: Thanks
<LaserJock> slangasek: hmm, well that's interesting too, but I think the question is what is the percentage of packages that that would be without a patch system *if* we wanted to add a patch
 * ogra always prefers to make a debdiff of the *single* change he did and send that as debian bug upstream ... that gives the DD a proper changelo and clean patch
<ogra> *changelog
<slangasek> LaserJock: what conclusions are you going to draw based on that number, then? :)
<LaserJock> well, how often might we expect to need to add a patch system
<slangasek> ogra: my argument is that these patches don't just get sent upstream to Debian, they also get carried in the Ubuntu package, where it's relevant to be able to tell the bits apart
<ogra> right
<ogra> if yu have ten ubuntu revisions its worth nothing
<LaserJock> slangasek: but most often there aren't a lot of patches in a patch-system-less package
<LaserJock> if the package is patched a lot generally Debian's already picked a system
<ogra> it only works with a certain amount of self discipline (which i admittedly not always have)
<LaserJock> the only case I can think of where we'd want to keep a lot of patches and not get them upstream is in the case of MIA Debian maintainers
<LaserJock> which does happen more often than one would hope for :(
<ogra> in the case of MIA DDs we should become package maintainers in debian and take over :P
<LaserJock> my problem is that I've seen Ubuntu people get pretty aggressive towards Debian maintainers over patch systems
<ogra> *that* would help both of us :)
<LaserJock> ogra: I'm sure most of us have enough to do to keep us busy here ;-)
<ogra> heh, yeah, i wasnt serious
<LaserJock> I've considered it a few times
<ogra> though i am pondering to take xaos from joeyh
<LaserJock> oh?
<LaserJock> I was looking at that
<ogra> to fianlly make my step into debian
<ogra> he orphaned it recently
<LaserJock> I know, I was looking at the Harvest page for it last night
<ogra> and i handled it for the last years ... just started slacking recently
<LaserJock> the new Debian release needs a sync ack
<ogra> it needs more
<ogra> unless someone merged the .desktop file and icon which joey refused to do for two years
<slangasek> LaserJock: well, if the "system" that Debian has picked is "subversion", then that's worthless and we still need a real patch system :)
<LaserJock> ogra: maybe you and I need to start a Debuntu Edu maintainer team on alioth ;-)
<ogra> haha
<LaserJock> slangasek: why?
<slangasek> LaserJock: why is subversion insufficient?
<LaserJock> why do we need a real patch system?
<slangasek> to ... track patches?
<LaserJock> why are we doing that?
<slangasek> because we *have* patches?
<LaserJock> and why is that?
 * LaserJock feels like a 3 year old
<ion_> slangasek: If youâre using svn, i have no commit access.
<LaserJock> my point is that patches should generally go upstream, not being tracked in Ubuntu, right?
<ion_> slangasek: Thus i canât say âhi, i fixed this, please pull from my branchâ.
<slangasek> LaserJock: for $reason? :)  I think "we should not have to have patches" is out of scope; there are cases when we do have them for whatever reason, and when we do, they should be managed properly
<slangasek> e.g., not like patches were being managed in pam for the past 4 years
<LaserJock> slangasek: sure, but it seems to me that the vast majority of packages that we need to track patches on *already* have a patch system
<slangasek> LaserJock: I'm arguing that if at any point we have to patch upstream sources, that's the right point at which to get the patch into some kind of patch system, not later after we already have two or three patches muddled together in a .diff.gz
<ion_> tkamppeter: Broken buildd? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16965783/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.cups_1.3.8-5ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<LaserJock> slangasek: well patch systems (dpatch, DVCS, etc.) are great no doubt. I'm just wary of making them mandatory because of stuff I've seen Ubuntu people do
<LaserJock> i.e. sending a Debian maintainer a plain patch or debdiff is much better than "you better take my patch system or your stupid"
<LaserJock> I've seen the same thing with CDBS
<LaserJock> nice Ubuntu people "converting" packages and expecting Debian maintainer to just take the whole lot
<ion_> For someone whoâs not using DVCS, i send a patch set that forms my change when applied in order, in case the change is bigger than one would put to a single commit. stgit is nice for that (reordering, rebasing, exporting to a set of diffs etc).
<LaserJock> however, perhaps basing current "policy" on past bad experiences isn't the best thing to do
<calc> anyone know what this means:
<calc> su: Cannot make/remove an entry for the specified session
<calc> when trying to chroot foo su -
<Treenaks> calc: utmp entry?
<tkamppeter> ion_, it says "gcc not found", this for sure a buildd problem. Anyone here can check buildd
<calc> Treenaks: why would it not be able to make one though?
<Treenaks> calc: ownership/permissions?
<Treenaks> calc: file doesn't exist?
<Treenaks> calc: apparmor?
<calc> Treenaks: not running apparmor afaik and the chroot is owned by root
<elmo> the buildd chroots are broken
<elmo> by pam
<calc> elmo: doing this on my own machine
<elmo> calc: then your chroot is broken, by pam
<calc> heh ok
<calc> was this a recent upgrade/breakage on hardy for pam?
<elmo> yes
<calc> ok
* elmo changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: PAM breaks buildd chroots (being worked on) || Alpha-4 released! | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<calc> i'm confused the newest version of pam listed on lp shows it was in updates since May 22 ?
<calc> i must be reading something incorrectly
<calc> or was it something else that got updated that showed the bug in pam?
<kwah> hi, any ideas on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/259867
<elmo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pam
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259867 in ubuntu "intrepid latest update authentication failed" [Undecided,New]
<elmo> "Published in intrepid-release 9 minutes ago  "
<elmo> calc: ^--
<calc> elmo: i'm still running hardy, not intrepid
<calc> doh
 * calc kicks himself
<calc> sorry i am stupid
<calc> i'm building an intrepid chroot which has the bug obviously
<kees> infinity: uhm... "gcc not found" causing FTBFS?  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16965833/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.git-core_1%3A1.5.6.3-1.1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
 * ScottK got a couple of those too.
 * ogra points kees to the topic
 * kwah read topic
<kees> ah-ha!
<ScottK> Ah.  Thanks.
<kwah> isnt it braking not only chroots now (or what does it mean for a regular user...)
<ScottK> Mine were both on hppa, so I figured it had some hppa specific brain damage.
<ogra> (the actual truth is indeed that we switch the whole of ubuntu to interpreted languages secretly)
<ogra> the pam issue is just to hide the vanishing of all compilers
<calc> lol
<kwah> funny aha
<LaserJock> ogra: so were getting a python kernel at last?!?
<ogra> yeah, why else do you think the kernel team has grown so much recently :)
<superm1> tseliot, I must have missed the ping with the code for x-kit.  could you provide it again?
<BenC> Anyone have any good/bad things to say about switching from evo to thunderbird?
<ogra> BenC, dont !
<ogra> evo needs you
<JontheEchidna> use kmail!
 * JontheEchidna ducks
<BenC> ogra: evo has burned me several times
<ssweeny> as a mail client thunderbird is far superior, but i like appointments/birthdays/etc in my clock applet
<superm1> BenC, never looked back since i switched :)
<LaserJock> BenC: data-loss type burn?
<BenC> plus it's a little heavy...I only need email, not calendar or tasks
<calc> BenC: thunderbird has issues with checking extended headers if using IMAP
<BenC> LaserJock: yeah
<superm1> BenC, i like a lot of the extensions that you can find on t-bird  that i never found an equivalent for on evo
<calc> BenC: I had to switch when upgrading from Thunderbird 1.5 to 2.0 since it broke and the bug regarding it seemed to be open for ~ 6 years already at that point
<BenC> calc: what sort of problems does that cause?
<LaserJock> I kinda like evo better in terms of headers and customization, but I've never lost anything with Thunderbird
<calc> BenC: you can't sort mail properly for eg mailing lists etc, at least in some cases
<BenC> I don't use imap other than to fetch...I don't store things in imap
<ogra> note that TB doesnt have reply to list
<superm1> BenC, stuff that's quite useful for getting patches like Colored Diffs, for mailing lists like "Mail redirect" and "nested quote remover" and "quote collapse"
<calc> BenC: that is only with IMAP though afaict and only if you don't have it download the entire messages (i think?)
<BenC> superm1: ooog
<calc> BenC: so just for fetching it might work out ok
<calc> i store all my mail on the relevent server, work server, gmail, my webhost, etc
<BenC> I like to keep it strictly local to avoid slow connection problems (e.g. hotels and such)
<calc> for anyone using gmail you can set it up to tag your emails on gmail directly then you don't need to sort them in the client at all (if using imap on gmail)
<calc> ok
<BenC> Not being able to empty my trash folder and showing wrong counts on my folders is really starting to pluck my nerves right now
<BenC> and the danger of something else eating my inbox is scary
<tseliot> superm1: https://code.launchpad.net/~albertomilone/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-common-xkit
 * BenC apologizes to seb128 and gives it a try
<superm1> tseliot, great thanks.  i'll take a look later tonight
<LaserJock> I suppose it's bad sign if you start running hourly backups on your email ;-)
<JontheEchidna> BenC: Thunderbird is nice and simple. Never had any data loss
<JontheEchidna> and it's not really resource hungry
<kwah> anyone? please... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/259867
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259867 in ubuntu "intrepid latest update authentication failed" [Undecided,New]
<ma10> kwah: i'm locked out of my system too
<ogra> BenC, it will become painful to work with debian lists without reply to list function though
<liw> BenC, on intrepid?
<superm1> ogra, http://alumnit.ca/wiki/?ReplyToListThunderbirdExtension ?
 * liw tests system-cleaner on a new machine, and system-cleaner suggest that it, itself is cruft and should be removed
 * liw declares the software finished
<ogra> superm1, ah
<slangasek> kwah: http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/meh is a sed command which you can run as root to edit /etc/pam.d/common-session back to a working state
<kwah> guys, at least pull offending packages from the arcihve, please
<kwah> its just a config issue?
<slangasek> kwah: if you can't get a root shell because of the bug, then I'm afraid you'll have to boot into recovery mode to fix it
<slangasek> a glaring, brown-paper-bag config issue, yes
<slangasek> the offending packages are in the process of being replaced
<ma10> can you tell us how to fix it manually?
<ion_> Iâd do /\<pam_deny\>/ { <LF> a # blahblah <LF> a session required blahblah <LF> d <LF> } instead.
<slangasek> ion_: I prefer to avoid {} where possible
<ion_> Why is that?
<slangasek> ma10: the URL I pointed to is the command you should run
<slangasek> ion_: because if I don't, infinity glares at me even harder for using sed like a programming language
<ma10> ops.. didn't pay attention tanks
<torkel> slangasek: where did you put pam-auth-update(8)?
<ma10> slangasek: so fix committed? ppl are rioting and spamming launchpad :)
<slangasek> torkel: it's not written yet, that's a bug
<slangasek> ma10: yes, binary is accepted and soon to be published
<torkel> slangasek: ah. I noticed that it was mentioned in common-* so I thought it existed :-)
<slangasek> torkel: I wrote it there because I didn't want to have to manage another update of the config files once I write it... :)
<slangasek> (and I didn't want the upload to block on the documentation, since there are other intrepid changes blocking on this)
<ion_> slangasek: So... Refrain from using a programâs capabilities because the syntax would slightly resemble a programming language, having correct indentation and braces all? :-P
<ion_> and
<slangasek> ion_: precisely :)
 * ion_ glares at slangasek *and* infinity
<bbs> why is ltmodem broken in restricted drivers
<kwah> slangasek, hanks. works like a charm =)
<kwah> *thanks
<slangasek> kwah: great, glad you were able to get it fixed
<james_w> what's the policy on language bindings for MIRs? We have webkit in main now as far as I can see, and mono-tools wants to use webkit-sharp.
<bbs> no ideas?
 * kwah had few scary moments
<kwah> thanks for fix and goodluck
<kwah> bb
<liw> if anyone wants to give system-cleaner a try, I've just updated my PPA: https://launchpad.net/~liw/+archive (now with a GUI version! but beware, it may want to remove important packages...)
<slangasek> bbs: perhaps you should check for open bug reports about this? or file one?
<slangasek> james_w: I would argue, on the side of caution, that language bindings are significant software in their own right that should go through the normal MIR process; but if you don't like that answer, I guess you should grab doko for an answer :)
<james_w> slangasek: thanks, I might well do that.
<james_w> see where volunteering gets you :-)
<bbs> slangasek: ok-- i'll just do a custom kernel
<ion_> liw: Is there a webpage with documentation?
 * slangasek shakes his fist at bbs's retreating form.  people not willing to file bug reports, hmph
<liw> ion_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CleanupCruft has background info, the manpage has usage instructions
<ion_> Thanks
 * liw seems to have trouble with getting apt to bypass a (transparent?) cache. again. *sigh*
<liw> hm, now it worked
<liw> the GUI is in need of some serious design level thinking, for usability
<tkamppeter> ion_, I have given back the CUPS package now and it build correctly. i386 and lpia are ready now.
<ion_> tkamppeter: Alright
<tkamppeter> buildd seems to be in a good state again.
* slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: libpam-runtime 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 badly broken, see bug #259867 || Alpha-4 released! | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
 * TheMuso glances at topic and is pleased that he doesn't run intrepid full time yet.
<ion_> themuso: Define full time.
<TheMuso> ion_: Use it daily for critical work.,
<Mithrandir> well, a configuration error isn't that hard to fix.
<TheMuso> Perhaps, but I'd likely upgrade, then find things are broken, and then have to use another machine/live CD to find a solution...
<LaserJock> I jumped to intrepid for daily critical work, though I have a backup install of Fedora just in case
<slangasek> TheMuso: rescue mode wouldn't work for you for that?
 * slangasek has no idea about the a11y of of rescue mode
<TheMuso> slangasek: I could, if I was using my 22" widescreen, but no deacent console speech solution, no.
 * slangasek giggles at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pam/+bug/259867/comments/15
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259867 in pam "[PAM] Unable to login: Cannot make/remove an entry for the specified session" [Undecided,Fix released]
<slangasek> it totally should be called a 'love CD'
<cr3> does apt support protected urls, in case I want a private archive?
<liw> cr3, we could tell you, but that would be a security problem
<slangasek> cr3: unless it's been implemented recently, no
<cr3> liw: security through obscurity, I will shed some light on that
<liw> I have heard rumors that apt supports basic auth, and https, but I've not been successful with getting basic auth to work (haven't tried https)
<cr3> liw: it can't be brain surgery to implement, lets get the source and see...
<slangasek> liw: /usr/lib/apt/methods/http doesn't appear to link to any crypto libs, and there's no .../https
<cjwatson> there's an apt-transport-https package
<slangasek> ah
<cjwatson> you need to exercise care though; I don't think it's suitable for all use cases that might be described as "private archives" yet
<cjwatson> and https isn't even the right model for many such
<elmo> apt supports https natively
<elmo> at least, that's what I understood from mvo
<james_w> kees: the ex-platform meeting is starting now.
<elmo> it has some issues, in as much as it doesn't try very hard to validate certs, but it's there
<slangasek> elmo: I don't see any support for it in apt, it really does appear to be an add-on package
<elmo> oh, well, that's whacky
<elmo> liw: basic auth absolutely works, the security buildds all use it
<liw> elmo, good, then I'm just stupid :)
<slangasek> kirkland: <cough> so, are you still out there somewhere, or did I knock you off the network with my pam breakage?
<elmo> anyway, cjwatson++.  apt + https is often not what you want
<kirkland> slangasek: just got back to the hotel ;-)
<kees> james_w: ooh! I'm off my a day, thanks.
<hwilde> please what is console-kit-daemon and do I need it?    it has to be locking up my machine
<hwilde> 23 reboots in 5 hrs
<slangasek> kirkland: ah, ok :)
<hwilde> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/consolekit/+bug/244218
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 244218 in consolekit "console-kit-daemon segfautls and error "Error waiting for native console"" [Undecided,New]
<kirkland> slangasek: I have a couple of ecryptfs-utils changes I was just about to try and sweet talk kees into sponsoring :-)
<hwilde> !info console-kit-daemon
<ubottu> Package console-kit-daemon does not exist in hardy
<kirkland> slangasek: let me fix a bug that cjwatson reported earlier today while we were playing with ecryptfs, and then i'll try the pam config magics ;-)
<hwilde> !info console-kit
<ubottu> Package console-kit does not exist in hardy
<hwilde> what does this mean it does not exist :/   it is scrolling errors in my syslog
<jpds> hwilde: consolekit
<hwilde> !info consolekit
<ubottu> consolekit (source: consolekit): framework for defining and tracking users, sessions and seats. In component main, is optional. Version 0.2.3-3ubuntu5 (hardy), package size 63 kB, installed size 348 kB
<slangasek> kirkland: ok, cheers; I need to go fix up samba to use it too, now that we have a config that automatically drops pam_smbpass out :)
<hwilde>  var/log/syslog scrolling errors    console-kit-daemon[4694]: WARNING: Error waiting for native console 62 activation: Invalid argument
<cjwatson> hwilde: please use launchpad.net or /msg rather than asking the bot questions in channel
<kirkland> slangasek: boy, that'll make pam's default configs cleaner
<kirkland> slangasek: the management thereof, of course
<slangasek> kirkland: yes, I've been downright giddy sitting here flipping cracklib on and off with a switch ;)
<hwilde> cjwatson, if it was named appropriately I wouldn't have had to ask.  the log scrolling error says console-kit which doesn't exist it's consolekit
<liw> slangasek, put the computer down and step away from it slowly...
<slangasek> liw: dude!  you can flip cracklib on and off with a switch!
<LaserJock> is there any rough estimate on how much member Xorg is generally supposed to take up?
<hwilde> if I try to remove consolekit it's trying to take with it:    consolekit* dbus* libbonoboui2-0* libgnome2-0* libgnomeui-0* libgnomevfs2-0* libpanel-applet2-0*
<hwilde> I don't want to lose dbus :/
<slangasek> liw: as soon as you unbreak your authentication completely due to my botched first upload, that is! :)
<LaserJock> bah, s/member/memory/
<kirkland> slangasek: kees says something's broke in the package uploading/building?
<infinity> kirkland: That's fixed now.
<cjwatson> hwilde: my point is not that you had to ask, but that you are asking the bot in this channel. Please do not do that.
<slangasek> kirkland: yeah, that was just me. and pam.
<cjwatson> you certainly cannot remove consolekit without removing a chunk of the desktop
<hwilde> cjwatson, why does the bot reply if we're not allowed to use it
<cjwatson> not my problem
<hwilde> cjwatson, I don't have a desktop.
<hwilde> remember, I intended to install server version, but k6 unusable... so it defaulted to generic :)
<hwilde> but I have a feeling if it takes out dbus that would be bad
<hwilde> I would settle for where does console-kit-daemon get launched?
<infinity> hwilde: You shouldn't need dbus on a server machine.
<infinity> hwilde: Certainly don't have it on mine.
<wasabi> At some point /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf became autogenerated.
<slangasek> hwilde: removing dbus should only be an issue if, in the course of removing it, it takes with it reverse-dependencies that you also care about
<wasabi> And no longer has send host-name "<hostname>";
<wasabi> Is there a master plan for getting host-name back in there by default?
<hwilde> who is starting console-kit-daemon?  nothing in /etc/init.d or rcS.d
<infinity> hwilde: dbus.
<james_w> hwilde: are you on a serial console?
<hwilde> james_w, no, ssh, but I do have the serial console option in /boot/grub/menu.lst
<hwilde> but I have no gui, no fast user switching, and single login
<hwilde> well, I killed it... and moved the binary, and the system is still up.
<hwilde> i'd like to know the appropriate way to disable that.  if there is one.
<james_w> hwilde: like in the bug did it segfault before those messages?
<hwilde> james_w, I dunno, all logging just abruptly stops
<hwilde> james_w, I didn't have it running in debug mode
<hwilde> but that's the only error I can find in the syslog, and it's in there 1388 times today, and 23 reboots when the system was hard lockup
<cjwatson> if a userspace process can hard-lock the kernel, it's a kernel bug
<cjwatson> regardless of any problems that userspace process might have in and of itself
<hwilde> well, I am remote, so I haven't been able to actually verify hardlockup or hard-enough-to-takeout-networking-support
<hwilde> but it is bad.
<hwilde> how is one supposed to figure out where console-kit-daemon is launched and stop it from launching?
<cjwatson> dpkg -L consolekit; look through those files
<hwilde> how is one supposed to find the package is named consolekit, while the binary is console-kit-daemon, and the syslog reference console-kit-daemon
<cjwatson> dpkg -S
<cjwatson> $ dpkg -S console-kit-daemon
<cjwatson> consolekit: /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon
<hwilde> got that far
<hwilde> dpkg -L seems to point to   /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90-console-kit
<hwilde> but I don't have any X11 session
<cjwatson> then you need to look at some of the other files.
<hwilde> /etc/ConsoleKit/seats.d/00-primary.seat  ?
<cjwatson> sounds unlikely
<cjwatson> my bet is on /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit.service
<hwilde>  /usr/share starts things ?
<james_w> dbus starts things
<james_w> that directory are the things that may be started to run on dbus' session bug
<james_w> s/bug/bus :-)
<hwilde> http://internetworkpro.org/pastebin/19875
<hwilde> if this wasn't free i'd accuse you of trying to protect your job security
<hwilde> so I delete  /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit.service  and then it won't startup anymore?
<james_w> yep
<hwilde> wow.
<james_w> it will come back on the next upgrade though, as it's not a conffile
<hwilde> I thought startup things were in /etc
<james_w> not for dbus
<cjwatson> filesystem paths do not start things
<verwilst> hi
<cjwatson> programs start things based on whatever they feel like
<verwilst> im having a reproducible crash in firefox 3.0.1
<verwilst> i want to debug it
<hwilde> why is it so difficult tho
<verwilst> but i cant install dbgsym for i
<verwilst> t
<hwilde> if it starts on startup why don't you just put it in /etc/
<cjwatson> /etc/ is for configuration files, not for things started on startup
<verwilst> firefox-3.0-dbgsym: Depends: firefox-3.0 (= 3.0~b5+nobinonly-0ubuntu3) but 3.0.1+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.3 is to be installed
<hwilde>   /etc/init.d   /etc/rcS.d
<cjwatson> if the file has no user-serviceable parts, it doesn't belong in /etc
<hwilde> look I use a lot of linux, you can't tell me this particular instance was straightforward.
<james_w> hwilde: you should search for a way to stop dbus starting things based on the configuration files in /etc/dbus
<cjwatson> hwilde: took me about a minute while doing something else *shrug*
<cjwatson> hwilde: you are not supposed to need to investigate this stuff; it's a bug
 * hwilde stares at cjwatson
<cjwatson> the reason /etc/init.d is in /etc is that people very commonly want to configure their init script
<hwilde> so you're saying, it's a bug, live with it ?
<cjwatson> s
<cjwatson> no, I'm saying it's a bug, get it fixed
<cjwatson> you are putting words incorrectly into my mouth and I don't appreciate it
<hwilde> I don't even need it, I just want to disable it
<hwilde> I can't even figure out how or why it's even running
<cjwatson> perhaps due to sshing into that system?
<cjwatson> consolekit tracks console logins, and ssh registers with it since otherwise GNOME desktop tools don't work properly over ssh
<hwilde> I don't have gnome or desktop.
<cjwatson> sure, but sshd doesn't know that
<cjwatson> it registers with consolekit; that you *do* get to live with
<hwilde> not anymore :)
<hwilde> totally killed it
<hwilde> seems fine without it.
<hwilde> so... where is this mystery config file that causes dbus to start console-kit-daemon :/
<cjwatson> we told you; you didn't listen
<cjwatson> /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit.service defines a service, and something (most probably sshd, but it could be something else) is requesting a service on that bus so it gets started
<cjwatson> s/a service on that bus/that service/
<hwilde> somebody should really make an xchat plug that recognize search and replace :)
<hwilde> ok so shouldn't that file be named  /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.console-kit.service
<hwilde> or  /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.console-kit-daemon.service
<hwilde> either of those cases I would have found with a locate, deleted it, and never come here to interrupt your idle time
<ion_> It could be named foobar.service and it would work just as well.
<hwilde> also the package should be named console-kit
<cjwatson> I'm afraid you just need to learn to use the tools properly
<hwilde> mess up the naming conventions and people will ask questions
<cjwatson> we aren't going to change all package names for the convenience of people who don't want to use dpkg
<hwilde> name it consistently and I wont need any tools.
<hwilde> you know i'm right
<hwilde> don't take it personally
<cjwatson> you're wrong, I'm afraid
<ion_> I know youâre not. :-P
<cjwatson> packages often contain programs with a variety of names
<hwilde> not this one.
<cjwatson> it is not generally simple to make them universally guessable, so it is better for users to learn the tools since that way they gain transferrable skills
<cjwatson> I am not going to continue this conversation
<hwilde> there is no valid reason for it to not be named console-kit as the binary and daemon are named.
<verwilst> it seems there are no ddebs being generated for hardy-security...
<verwilst> i need it to backtrace a firefox crash :)
<hwilde> so, this bug is still status New, undecided.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/consolekit/+bug/244218
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 244218 in consolekit "console-kit-daemon segfautls and error "Error waiting for native console"" [Undecided,New]
<hwilde> would you like any debug info to confirm?
<cjwatson> verwilst: pitti is the ddeb master, but is more likely to be around during European working hours
<verwilst> cjwatson: ill bug pitti tomorrow then :)
<verwilst> im in europe too so it's time for bed ;)
<hwilde> europeans don't sleep :)
<james_w> hwilde: I'll deal with it tomorrow
<james_w> hwilde: now can you please stop telling us we are wrong? at least for tonight?
<verwilst> cjwatson: can i build a ddeb myself?
<verwilst> like from a normal source package?
<hwilde> james_w, would developing ubuntu be as much fun without demanding users?  :)
<hwilde> i'm sorry, I use ubuntu in a production environment, forgive me
<cjwatson> verwilst: I think you can do it by installing pkg-create-dbgsym and building the package
<cjwatson> then *all* package builds will get ddebs built, until you remove pkg-create-dbgsym
<verwilst> nice
 * verwilst creates a debootstrapped environment
<verwilst> or reads up on how to use pbuilder? :P
<hwilde> I love ubuntu :)    can't get this level of response (violent as it may be) anywhere else :)
<slangasek> hwilde: developing ubuntu is a lot more fun when demanding users don't join #ubuntu-devel and repeatedly tell us we're doing it wrong
<hwilde> slangasek, I take it back.  I was wrong.  the binary is console-kit and the error message is console-kit and I did not think to locate consolekit.
<hwilde> I know the filesystem, not dpkg so much.
<hwilde> can I donate specifically to have the package name changed to console-kit :)
<slangasek> I believe that's based on the upstream project name
<verwilst>   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: xulrunner-1.9-dev (>= 1.9.0.1) but it is not installable
<verwilst> rah
#ubuntu-devel 2008-08-21
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, my focus is on pam/ecryptfs now....
<verwilst> does pbuilder use the sources.list of the system?
<verwilst> Version: 1.9.0.1+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.3 is available there...
<kirkland> slangasek:  I didn't see any debian/pam-configs/ within the pam package ....  perhaps you meant another package?  i'm downloading the bzr branch (on the hotel's sad wireless) right now....
<slangasek> kirkland: which version were you looking at?
<verwilst> any idea what i could be doing wrong?
<kirkland> slangasek: hmm... maybe i went about this wrong... apt-get source pam pulls pam-1.0.1
<slangasek> kirkland: at what Debian revision? :)
<kirkland> that sounds conspicuously nascent
<kirkland> pam (1.0.1-1ubuntu1) intrepid; urgency=low
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, bzr branch has the docs ;-)
<kirkland> slangasek: gimme a few minutes, i'll peruse this....
<slangasek> yep, your apt mirror is at least 4 hours out of date ;)
<kirkland> slangasek: :-)  thankfully, my hotel wifi pull the bzr mirror, though, initially estimates pointed at 4 hours to branch that
<slangasek> kirkland: heh, ouch
<kirkland> slangasek: any guidelines on the priority front?
<slangasek> kirkland: I threw some together in the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PAMConfigFrameworkSpec)
 * kirkland subscribes to changes to that page, albeit after-the-fact
<slangasek> kirkland: but I think this hooks in as an 'optional' module, so I'm not sure the priorities matter as much?
<kirkland> slangasek: agreed, optional in all points in the pam stack
<kirkland> slangasek: would Priority 0 be acceptable?
<slangasek> kirkland: yes, that's what I'm currently using for smbpasswd
<kirkland> slangasek: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39236/
<slangasek> kirkland: s/^\s+(auth|session|password)//;
<slangasek> (that's the recent syntax change I made during the implementation)
<slangasek> kirkland: oh, and s/Initial/Final/
<slangasek> kirkland: because if there's no "Initial" stanza defined it'll fall back to "Final", but not the other way around
<kirkland> slangasek: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39237/
<kirkland> slangasek: nice, (auth|session|password) were redundant
<slangasek> precisely :-)
<slangasek> kirkland: looks good to me... throw it in there, call pam-auth-update --package in your postinst, and test it? :)
<kirkland> slangasek: suggestions on where to install the file?  /usr/share/foo ?
<slangasek> kirkland: it has to be installed in /usr/share/pam-configs/
<kirkland> slangasek: k
<kirkland> slangasek: i see it in the wiki now....
<kirkland> slangasek: "Package config declarations are shipped in the packages under /usr/share, and are not user-editable" ... should I install it 444?
<slangasek> kirkland: 0644, the default for all files
<slangasek> ("not user editable" meaning only that user changes will not be preserved or honored)
<kirkland> slangasek: right, but that's chmod-able in postinst, no?
<kirkland> k
<slangasek> there's no need to chmod it at all
* spm changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad is going down from 00:00 UTC until 02:00 UTC for a code update. ||libpam-runtime 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 badly broken, see bug #259867 || Alpha-4 released! | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopmen
* slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad is going down from 00:00 UTC until 02:00 UTC for a code update. | pam 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 broken (bug #259867) | Alpha-4 released! | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs f
* slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad down from 00:00 UTC until 02:00 UTC for a code update | pam 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 broken (bug #259867) | Alpha-4 released! | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://
<slangasek> can't win
* slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Launchpad down from 00:00 UTC until 02:00 UTC for a code update | pam 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 broken (bug #259867) | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Help
<kirkland> slangasek: no manpage for pam-auth-update yet?
<slangasek> close enough for now :P
<slangasek> kirkland: correct; I wanted to get this into your hands (& into the archive), documentation is next along with a couple of missing features (like, being able to deconfigure a module in prerm remove)
<kirkland> slangasek: i don't see a usage statement in the wiki either
<kirkland> slangasek: no worries...
<slangasek> pam-auth-update --package is all you should ever call from a postinst
<kirkland> slangasek: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39240/
<kirkland> slangasek: oh, maybe i should drop the ecryptfs-utils then
<kirkland> slangasek: and the file installed to /usr/share/pam_configs/ should just be the package name?  ie, ecryptfs-utils?
<slangasek> kirkland: a simple, descriptive filename; package name is fine
<slangasek> or simply "ecryptfs", even
<kirkland> slangasek: which pam version should I depend on in the control file?
<slangasek> kirkland: libpam-runtime (>= 1.0.1-2ubuntu1)
<kirkland> slangasek: i suppose "Recommends" would be most appropriate
<slangasek> why not a simple Depends?
<slangasek> if you do a 'Recommends', then you have to make the use in the postinst conditional
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, f that
<kirkland> :-)
<kirkland> slangasek: error message... pam-auth-update: Run pam-auth-config --force to override.
<kirkland> slangasek: looks like you change names of the bin at some point?
<slangasek> kirkland: no, I just fail at looking at the name of the file I'm editing
<slangasek> I'll fix that up, thanks :)
<ion_> $0
<kirkland> slangasek: np.... okay i'm close
<kirkland> slangasek: i got added to common-auth and common-session fine, but not common-password for some reason
<slangasek> kirkland: s/addit/Addit/
<slangasek> case-sensitive field names, sorry
<kirkland> slangasek: aha
<kirkland> slangasek: got it
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, now for the sensitive part....
<kirkland> slangasek: i've been telling users all along to use auth-client-config to setup pam manually
<kirkland> slangasek: i see your utility is smart enough to detect outside edits of pam.d/*
<kirkland> slangasek: i suppose in the postinst i should tear down the auth-client-config configuration, if present
<kirkland> slangasek: to properly support upgrades?
<slangasek> kirkland: by then it's too late, I think; libpam-runtime will already be installed, and will have already decided to go into manual mode
<slangasek> kirkland: I think this is a "you were running a devel release, fix it up by hand" case
<kirkland> slangasek: i can see that....
<slangasek> noting that "fix it up by hand" probably means nothing more than "pam-auth-update --force"
<kirkland> slangasek: shall i rip out the auth-client-config in the same patch as the one where I'm adding this?
<kirkland> slangasek: that seems logic to me...
<slangasek> I have no opinion on that; maybe ask jdst<tab><tab> ok, he's not here :)
<lifeless> asac: well, I'd implement a magic mark filter for that
<lifeless> the basic theory graydon notes is accurate
<lifeless> though actually we can do better with N-parent diffs
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, i have a tested working ecryptfs-utils package
<slangasek> w00t
<kirkland> slangasek: however, i would like to provide a better upgrade vector for my bleeding edge testers
<slangasek> ok
<kirkland> slangasek: perhaps a dpkg-reconfigure libpam-runtime?
<slangasek> insufficient; libpam-runtime isn't going to have enough smarts to know whether it's safe to overwrite this stuff, so at best you get a debconf prompt asking to overwrite (and in any case, it's not safe to call dpkg-reconfigure from a maintainer script
<slangasek> )
<kirkland> hrm
<slangasek> but what you can do is do the same thing as libpam-runtime's postinst: have a version check, and an md5sum check, and if you recognize the files as being your handiwork (via auth-client-config), call pam-auth-update --package --force
<slangasek> y'know, I'm having the hardest time remembering that the program is named pam-auth-update instead of pam-auth-config.  Maybe I named it wrong and should change it?
<kirkland> :-)
<kirkland> slangasek: you've typed it that way a few times
<kirkland> slangasek: i cut-and-pasted it into a shell at some point and it didn't worky
<slangasek> :)
<kirkland> :-)
<kirkland> slangasek: i think i can actually issue an auth-client-config command to undo its changes
<kirkland> slangasek: would that help?
<slangasek> nope
<slangasek> :)
<kirkland> ah, it's too late
<slangasek> something still has to call pam-auth-update --force
<kirkland> as you've said
<kirkland> okay
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, i see the libpam-runtime.postinst, i'll use something like that
<slangasek> I guess you probably only have one md5sum for each file that you need to worry about, so I would suggest including them as variables in the maintainer script instead of having to ship files for it
<cjwatson> argh, testing cdebconf changes => officially a pain
<lifeless> :>
<ion_> cjwatson: Why is that?
<slangasek> because you can't install cdebconf on a full system
<ion_> slangasek: chroot
<slangasek> due to conflicts with debconf (though we should be getting closer to the end of that transition)
<ion_> All that can be done by a test suite.
<cjwatson> yes yes yes stop preaching at me :)
<cjwatson> I'm trying to test something exceedingly specific and need to do a proper system test in an Ubuntu CD environment
<cjwatson> also I don't need solutions since I've figured it out
<cjwatson> I should have known that saying "test" would bring out the helpful crew
<lifeless> I have not claimed helpful  :)
<slangasek> https://launchpad.net/~the-helpful-crew/+members
<StevenK> And Launchpad is offline
<slangasek> ha-ha, made you look
<StevenK> :-P
<cjwatson> ion_: short answer, if you don't know what I'm trying to do, don't suggest a chroot ;-)
<cjwatson> d-i is not amenable to that approach
<LaserJock> hmm, for some reason the Edubuntu CD seems to not be working anymore
<slangasek> heh, that too
<slangasek> you /used/ to be able to chroot d-i...
<cjwatson> I wouldn't like to attempt to install as far as tasksel that way
<slangasek> ...right :)
<kirkland> slangasek: something like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39252/ ?
<cjwatson> (the bug I'm working on is related to the combination of preseeding and debconf -> cdebconf passthrough)
<cjwatson> $ dpkg --compare-versions "" lt "53-1ubuntu6"; echo $?
<cjwatson> 0
<cjwatson> kirkland: you can leave out the [ -z "$2" ] test
<kirkland> cjwatson: thx, copied from slangasek ;-)
 * cjwatson <- nitpicking maintainer scripts since 2000
<slangasek> <cough> I'll just pretend that Sam wrote that part of the postinst originally
<slangasek> anyway, sometimes it's nice to make it explicit for the benefit of readers :)
<slangasek> kirkland: actually, in your case I think you explicitly *don't* want to do this on first install of the package, so better to omit the [ -z ] test and use lt-nl as the operator...
<kirkland> slangasek: i thought i might have an off-by-one there....
<slangasek> kirkland: lt-nl != le, if that's what you mean
<slangasek> -nl is "null versions compare greater than everything instead of less than everything"
<kirkland> slangasek: not what i meant
<kirkland> slangasek: just that 53-1ubuntu6 didn't seem like quite the right operand
<slangasek> kirkland: looks right to me
<cjwatson> I think I prefer "No version is Later than any version" as the expansion of -nl, myself; "greater than" isn't so mnemonic
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, i'm fading fast...  i will test this more thoroughly asap tomorrow
<kirkland> slangasek: upgrade some of my vm's in various conflagurations
<kirkland> slangasek: before posting the patch for sponsorship
<kirkland> slangasek: but i'm liking what i'm seeing out of your utility!
<cjwatson> oh, this is so wrong, I'm using kickstart as a way to get in ahead of cdebconf starting
<kirkland> slangasek: i just don't want to smack the people who adopted this early, if you know what i mean
<slangasek> kirkland: sure, I understand :)
<slangasek> kirkland: fwiw, I normally use lt $fixed version, rather than le $last_known_good, because I figure repeating the operation against uncoordinated ~ versions is the safer course
<slangasek> er, $last_known_bad
<kirkland> slangasek: i'll try to find a Euro sponsor for the patch tomorrow; if not, i'll be waiting for your review
<cjwatson> (if you pass 'ks=http://foo.invalid/bar' to the installer, it will bring up the network and then stop with an error message before starting main-menu)
<slangasek> kirkland: good-o, cheers :)
<kirkland> night all
<slangasek> 'night!
<slangasek> kirkland: one thing that's missing here is to check that /etc/pam.d/common-account is also pristine before deciding to overwrite; your package hasn't edited it, so it should just be a matter of using the checksum from libpam-runtime, but we should check that all four files are unmodified before taking an action that will clobber them all
<slangasek> kirkland: how I would write this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39257/
<ScottK> slangasek: If you have a moment, would you please do the wireshark 1.0.2 backport for Hardy.  I'm trying to administer a "Please use the system" lesson to my local LUG and it'd be handy if that magically appeared soonish.
<ScottK> It's Bug #259876
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259876 in hardy-backports "Please backport wireshark 1.0.2-1 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259876
<slangasek> ScottK: heh :)
<slangasek> I guess that means LP is back up, though
<ScottK> Was it down?  I turned off the network and went out in the backyard to work without distraction for the last several hours.
<ScottK> (with my laptop)
<slangasek> yeah, it's still down if you ask the /topic
<StevenK> ScottK: Which was when LP was down
<ScottK> Right, of course.
<StevenK> It's 1:34UTC, they're early
<StevenK> "We still have 30 minutes! Bring it back down!"
<ScottK> Well I've looked at one page and didn't claw my eyes out, so that's good news.
<slangasek> ScottK: magic moofled
<ScottK> Thanks.
* spm changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: pam 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 broken (bug #259867) | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Help
<spm> slangasek: sorry :-)
* slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: pam 1.0.1-2ubuntu1 broken (bug #259867) | archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/feisty/gutsy/hardy, #ubuntu+1 for intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<slangasek> spm: no worries :)
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach!
<dholbach> hi Hobbsee
<StevenK> slangasek: I guess "Cannot make/remove an entry for specified session" iz the pam bug?
<slangasek> StevenK: yes
<StevenK> slangasek: Yes, I actually read the bug between asking and you replying. :-)
<slangasek> well, hmph
<StevenK> Heh, sorry :-)
<slangasek> roughly, that was also a "yes; do you need help getting anything un-broken?"
<StevenK> Nothing OMG kittens urgent
<StevenK> Just need to update a mobile image chroot/squashfs
<StevenK> slangasek: Has the fixed package been published?
<slangasek> yes, hours ago
<StevenK> Ah, my local mirror needs to be booted
<slangasek> huh, when did mailman start sorting admindb entries by sender first name instead of by date?
<TheMuso> 7~/me has had a mental blank... .la files do go in dev packages right?
<slangasek> .la files go to /dev/null ;)
<slangasek> yes, they go in dev packages or nowhere at all, depending on your perspective
<TheMuso> slangasek: heh right, thanks.
<slangasek> kees: so with the new framework, all we have to do to change the default password hash from md5 to something else is to edit debian/pam-configs/unix. <mad giggle>
<asac> lifeless: hmm. does that mean that a solution is already available?
<lifeless> asac: no more than that thread talks about
<lifeless> though you can do a merge and diff yourself
<lifeless> and I have some plans that may help eventually
 * TheMuso grumbles at libtool changes breaking another package...
<TheMuso> And in a non-obvious way as well. The package builds, but no .so files are built.
<slangasek> hrm; did something regress on bazaar.lp in the latest launchpad code rollout?:
<slangasek> Using saved location: bzr+ssh://vorlon@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/pam/ubuntu/
<slangasek> Server is too old for streaming pull, reconnecting.  (Upgrade the server to Bazaar 1.2 to avoid this)
<StevenK> I thought the server was 1.5 ?
<StevenK> slangasek: Beg in #launchpad?
<\sh> slangasek: see #launchpad
<RAOF> StevenK: The server is 1.6rc3, actually :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Not according to that error :-P
<RAOF> Right; apparently it's got to do with something that bzr 1.5 uses that 1.6 doesn't support.
<slangasek> mmk
 * persia suspects the error is actually " Server is too new for streaming pull, reconnecting."
<amitk> soren: kvm doesn't like being shutdown on intrepid....
<soren> amitk: -v
<amitk> soren: bug 259336
<ubottu> Bug 259336 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/259336 is private
<amitk> bug 259336
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259336 in kvm "kvm crashed with SIGSEGV in __libc_start_main()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259336
<soren> could you try with kvm 72, please?
<amitk> sure
<Keybuk> ooh, I didn't just get quoted in LWN
<Keybuk> I made "Quotes of the week" in the LWN Kernel page
 * Keybuk is FAMOUS!
<soren> Keybuk: Ooh, top spot, no less :)
<Treenaks> Keybuk: woo!
<emgent> moin people
<stefanlsd> hihi
<emgent> hey stefan! :)
<persia> cjwatson: Could you subscribe me also to the CD image reports for alternate CDs for the ports?  I get ports_daily-live, but not ports_daily.
<cjwatson> persia: the reason you aren't getting mails is that the builds are succeeding, not that you aren't subscribed
<persia> cjwatson: Ah, I only saw hppa and lpia on cdimages.ubuntu.com, and so thought that I should be getting errors for ia64, sparc, and powerpc.
<persia> cjwatson: On another note, do you have any plans for further updates to the ArchiveReorganisation spec, or do you think it's ready for presentation to the TB for review/approval?
<cjwatson> persia: oh, I think it only sends out a mail if the entire build fails
<cjwatson> that's probably a bug
<cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/intrepid/ports_daily-20080821.log
<cjwatson> persia: I want to run it by Mark this week while I'm in the office; I already gave him a heads-up on it
<persia> cjwatson: OK.  I asked about it at the last TB meeting, and was advised that the idea was accepted, but that the specific proposal had not yet been submitted for review.  Please let me know if I may be of any assistance in helping the process along.
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> thanks
<\sh> hmm...python2.4 will still be available in intrepid, right?
<\sh> Riddell: please apply http://archive.linux-server.org/debdiffs/python-qt4_4.4.3-1ubuntu1.debdiff and reupload to intrepid, thx
<\sh> argl...FC
<soren> IIUIC, it's ok for a GPL project to copy code from an LGPL project. Is that right?
<cjwatson> yes
<soren> But not the other way around?
<cjwatson> remember that the code retains its original licence
<soren> Oh, it does?
<cjwatson> an LGPL project can import GPL code if it likes - it's just that the work as a whole may now only be released under the terms of the GPL
<soren> I thought the LGPL said that you were free to change the license to GPL.
<cjwatson> actually, yes, that is true in the LGPL case
<soren> Ok..
<cjwatson> so indeed it would just become pure GPL then
<soren> So if a GPL project takes code from an LGPL project and improves upon it, the LGPL project can't use those improvements. Correct? (without changing their own license, of course)
<cjwatson> that's correct
<cjwatson> unless the owners of the GPL code relicense it back
<soren> Figures..
<soren> cjwatson: Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
<cjwatson> soren: ok for me to merge your server seed stuff now?
<soren> cjwatson: Oh, by all means.
<cjwatson> I merged my tasksel branch and fixed a cdebconf bug that was causing problems there
<cjwatson> server seed merged
<cjwatson> I'll get the debian-cd stuff done shortly
<vargadanis> hey there... I want to build a GUI with a different look and feel from the OS's default using either GTK (preferred) or QT...
<vargadanis> what are my options?
<cjwatson> http://developer.gnome.org/arch/gtk/themes.html
<cjwatson> links to art.gnome.org which has a good deal of tutorial information
<vargadanis> cjwatson: so you say that with this I can set the theme of my application without modifying the theme of the whole desktop?
<cjwatson> you can do that sort of thing with local resource files, yes
<cjwatson> or local styles
<soren> You can apply a different theme to your application. For an example, see rawstudio.
 * cjwatson <- not an expert
<vargadanis> cjwatson: you are more of an expert in the issue than me ^_^
<vargadanis> soren: I will do that, thanx for the tip
<soren> vargadanis: np
<vargadanis> soren: do you think that I can even let's say create custom widgets and say set the background image for them just by these local rc files?
<soren> I imagine so. I've never used it myself.
<vargadanis> soren: alright... I will look into that
<Riddell> mvo: synaptic recommends apt-xapian-index, do you plan to get that into main?
<mvo> Riddell: yes I have not written a MIR for it yet though
<Riddell> mvo: ok, I need one for adept so I'll write one
<mvo> aha, excellent
<persia> ogra: About denemo.  The last I heard from LaserJock was that it had three chunks of stuff that needed MIR.
<persia> Those being csound, lilypond, and libaubio
<ogra> right
<persia> I think csound is best dropped to suggests, as it's an optional audio rendering system, and timidity can also be used to render.
<ogra> i asked pitti about lilypond and he didnt find any harm in MIRing it ... i didnt know about the others back then
<persia> denemo doesn't make any sense without lilypond, so that, and the other 4 sources that go with it ought drop in.
<ogra> as i mentioned before, i dont really need the midi functionallity in edubuntu but want the notesetting capabilities it offers in edubuntu
<ogra> sure it makes sense if you want to write down notes and prnt them out in music class
<persia> THe issue is really with libaubio.  It depends on JACK.  JACK depends on freebob.
<ogra> we never had any midi stuff in edubuntu
<ogra> but denemo was always there
<persia> if libaubio doesn't depend on JACK, then denemo and lilypond become less interesting for Studio, which is bad.
<persia> If JACK doesn't depend on freebob, we drop support for all firewire audio interfaces, which is bad.
<persia> freebob is dead upstream.  There is a replacement ffado project, but it has yet to reach it's first release.
<ogra> what happened to the plan ubuntustudio had to snaitize jack for main ?
<persia> It's waiting on a ffado release.
<ogra> will that happen in time for intrepid ?
<persia> No.
<ogra> :(
<persia> ogra: That said, while I'm not comfortable with a dead upstream in main, someone else might want to maintain it.
<persia> Alternately, if you look at the feedback to LaserJock's mail to the edubuntu-users mailing list, it seems that at least a couple users would rather install Studio directly for teaching music.
<ogra> well, but it was part of edubuntu the last years ... i'm not really comfortable to drop the feature
<ogra> and it never did any midi stuff without installing the universe components either
<persia> ogra: Makes sense.  Let's wait to hear more from LaserJock, who has been following this more closely.
<ogra> right
<JontheEchidna> mvo: Did you get my email about software-properties-kde ?
<mvo> JontheEchidna: yes, thanks a lot! I haven't looked at the merge yet, sorry. I will do it today
<JontheEchidna> mvo: Ok, I don't want to  be pushy or anything, but with the feature freeze coming up I got a bit nervous...
<JontheEchidna> thanks :)
<mvo> thank you :)
<hwilde> fyi system has been stable for 14 hours since removing console-kit-daemon  (244218)
<kirkland> cjwatson: what's the magic you're putting on the end of your kvm command to get the keyboard mapping back to a sane state?
<soren> -k us, probably.
<soren> kirkland: Good news on that front, though. It seems we have a fix that works, that will land withing the next couple of days.
<kirkland> soren: rock on
<soren> kirkland: aliguori strikes again :)
<kirkland> \o/
<nxvl> good morning
<kirkland> nxvl: howdy
<nxvl> waiting for some news
<nxvl> :D
<cjwatson> kirkland: -k en-us
<kirkland> cjwatson: cool, thanks
<cjwatson> it doesn't quite work, but it at least fixes arrow keys
<kirkland> cjwatson: yeah, partitioning in the installer is excruciatingly difficult without arrow keys :-)
<LaserJock> I noticed yesterday that in VMware Player my up arrow takes a screenshot :-)
<LaserJock> ogra, persia: would it make sense to MIR freebob with the expectation that it'll be replaced ASAP?
<persia> LaserJock: As long as someone is willing to maintain freebob, I'm happy with that.  I don't have that kind of HW, so don't feel comfortable doing it myself.
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't either
<LaserJock> I tried to look in the denemo ./configure for an option to turn it off
<LaserJock> there wasn't any obvious flag
<persia> See, I'd be opposed to turning it off.  While mScore is gaining mindshare, denemo is still the most popular score editor for ubuntustudio
<ogra> oh
<ogra> why did obody poit me to mscore yet
<ogra> *nobody
<persia> I didn't know you wanted it.  It's nicer than denemo, but it kinda needs a real soundfont, which makes it a little awkward if you want it on a CD.
<ogra> it doesnt even have any deps
 * sistpoty|work hands ogra another n
<ogra> (apart from QT)
<LaserJock> ogra: because I checked the number of MIRs I'd have to do to get it
<ogra> persia, well, my words should have told you
<ogra> all i want in edubuntu is a score editor for note setting
<persia> ogra: mScore needs JACK too, and jack-in-main is the primary blocker here.
<ogra> upstream doesnt talk about any midi deps
<ogra> http://mscore.sourceforge.net/en/download.php says alsa, cmake, freetype2 and qt4
<persia> It doesn't have any MIDI deps, it has a built-in soundfont player.  It doesn't need a MIDI interpreter (like denemo), but it does need sounds.
<persia> fluid-soundfont is the only free GM/GS soundfont anyone has been able to find, but it's *huge*
 * ogra likes huge 
<ogra> size does matter, you know ;)
<ogra> we have ~400M free space on the edubuntu CD
<ogra> space os my smallest concern
<ogra> *is
<LaserJock> more like ~188MB free at the moment
<persia> Oh, if you've that much space, mScore is *way* better than denemo, and mScore+MuSE is most of a complete environment ffor iddling about.
<persia> Still needs jack-in-main though, which is about freebob, and not about anything else.
<ogra> LaserJock, minus WINFOSS
<ogra> which is about 200M
<LaserJock> well, we can trade lilypond for a few more MIRs for mscore
<ogra> i see libjack in the deps though
<persia> Right, it's all about freebob.  If someone is willing to support freebob-in-main, we're golden.  If not, we're sunk either way.
<LaserJock> so.... we need find a victim/volunteer
<persia> And I'll maintain, for the same reasons I did pre-Sevilla, that dropping the freebob dep isn't the right way to solve it, as there are too many users who depend on this.
<ogra> pfft ... users ... who cares about *them*
<ogra> as long as the devs have fun :P
<persia> ogra: Well, at least I'll stand up for people with fancy firewire audio interfaces that make me drool.  If I'm lucky, one of them will demo one for me one day :)
 * ogra used to live in an artists colony some years ago ... i would have had 100s of midi devices to test back then (there were also a lot of musicians... it had the biggest rehearsal center in northern germany attached ... (people like mousse-t come from there)) sadly i lost all contacts to these people
<LaserJock> well, we're looking at removing note-editing altogether here, it'd be nice to come up with something
 * persia checks the freebob mailing list
<soren> "freebob"? A free implementatino of Microsoft Bob?
<Treenaks> soren: ooh! that should fit well in the new PAM framework!
<persia> FreeBoB from BeBoB, which is Bridgeco Enhanced BreakOut Box
<soren> Treenaks: That's a very disturbing though.
<soren> t
<persia> ogra: LaserJock: I'm only seeing spam on the FreeBob lists.  There is a beta ffado out (http://www.ffado.org/?q=release/beta) which might be usable.  Some good reports of it working on Ubuntu in the mailing lists.
<persia> Doesn't work with ALSA or pulseaudio yet, but that likely doesn't matter because most users wouldn't expect to use it.
<persia> Err, to use the ffado backend.
<ogra> if users dont expect it, why would we depend on it ?
<persia> ogra: The vast majority of users won't have hardware that requires freebob/ffado.
<ogra> then it should become a suggests
<persia> From the perspective of having a note editor in Edubuntu, I don't think it matters that these devices don't work well with ALSA or pulse yet.
<persia> It can't be a suggests: JACK needs to link against the libraries, and the note editors need to be linked against JACK to use JACK.
<persia> I use JACK a lot, but I don't use those backends, because I don't have that hardware.
<persia> The contention is that most Edubuntu users won't mind not being able to use firewire audio interfaces with ASLA or pulse, but want a note editor.
<ogra> right
<cr3> what does this file mean on archive.u.c/ubuntu: Archive-Update-in-Progress-leningradskaya.canonical.com
<LaserJock> persia: would we be more likely to find somebody to maintain ffado than freebob?
<LaserJock> seems more of a "who's got the hardware" issue
<persia> LaserJock: Given the ffado beta, that's what I'm thinking.
<persia> I could get some of the lower-end HW that it supports this weekend, but I'm just not confident that I understand the subsystems well enough to be more than a tester.
<asac> kees: can you give me your /e/n/interfaces ?
<asac> kees: you appear to have a rather complex setup. would like to take a look at that ;)
 * cjwatson does a snoopy dance
<cjwatson> successful 256MB installation
<cjwatson> (desktop CD)
<persia> Wow!  Very nice!
<ogra> YAY !!
<persia> This is compcache showing it's colours?
<ogra> now try with 75% compcache and 128M :)
<cjwatson> I may do in a bit :)
<ogra> though users wont have much fun with such a system once installed :)
<ogra> unless we'd carry over compcache into the install
<cjwatson> 256MB was the target I wanted to hit, so I'm happy enough; 'free' immediately after booting says that about 128MB is used, so there's decent headroom there
<ogra> well, it might be intresting for UME once we get to arm support ... i think there are many 128M arm devices out there
<ogra> but thats not on the plate yet
<cjwatson> arm> I agree
<persia> The Zaurus is an example, and someone got Ubuntu Desktop on one
<ogra> right, compcache might make that more comfortable ...
<ogra> there are a lot of opportunities ... but all rather intrepid+1
<persia> Indeed.  One week isn't enough to play enough.
<ogra> well, the feture is in since a week ...
<ogra> *feature
<ogra> it always depends if you call the enhancement of it another feature :)
<ogra> its there for all arches in intramfs ... just a matter of setting the COMPCACHE_SIZE variable in initramfs.conf
<ogra> so if we should get arm before final release we can indeed make use of it :)
<cr3> does the live cd create anything at all on the installed system, perhaps a swap file for example?
<ogra> ubiquity creates a swap partition
<cr3> ogra: how can it find that space if the installed system takes all the space on the drive?
<ogra> well, it will check if you have enough space and moan afaik
<ogra> if you don have the 3.5G you need for the install then adding a swapfile will still eat diskspace
<ogra> the only option you would have here would be to go completely without swap
<cr3> I meant: what if the filesystem, such as ntfs for example, takes up the whole drive? I suspect ubiquity doesn't do some resizing on the fly, does it?
<ogra> it does offer it
<ogra> not sure about "on the fly" i dont have ntfs here anywhere so i could test
<cr3> ogra: oh wait, you're talking about the installation process, I'm just talking about the live environment
<ogra> ah
<cr3> heh, that was confusing :)
<ogra> well, for that we have compcache now
<ogra> which creates a virtual swapdisk in ram
<cr3> so everything is in memory? that's what I thought but I suspected more space might be needed to run the live environment
<ogra> th elivenev needs 128-256M ... but if you have i.e. a graphics card using shared ram that will eat from your main ram ... which is why our requirements up to ow were 384M
<ogra> *up to now
<ogra> compcache creates a virtial swap device in ram where read and write operations get compressed
<ogra> *virtual
<ogra> so you can effectively have 256M plus 64M virtual swap
<ogra> which compensates the videoram or whatever takes away from the physical ram
<cr3> ogra: cool! thanks for those extra details, much appreciated
<ogra> as i said above compcache is avaliable generally ... you can use it in other environments as well
<ogra> (ltsp will use it for example)
 * cr3 puts compcache on his toread list
<ogra> just set COMPCACHE_SIZE (see initramfs.conf for documentation) ... and send flowers to ion :)
<cr3> we need telegram hugs
<kirkland> slangasek: ping me when you come around....
 * LaserJock wonders what jsilber would say if Canonical employees started sending hug-o-grams
<cjwatson> persia: I think I've fixed up the powerpc and sparc CD builds, BTW, since you mentioned the ports_daily problems
<persia> cjwatson: Cool.  We'll have more arches tomorrow then.  ia64 is still broken?
<cjwatson> persia: ENOKERNEL
<cjwatson> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ports/2.6.25-1.2/+build/622775
<persia> heh.  That would do it.
<cjwatson> doesn't actually look that complicated a failure, mind ...
<kirkland> slangasek: Use of uninitialized value in numeric comparison (<=>) at /usr/sbin/pam-auth-update line 104.
<Riddell> mvo: what creates /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp ?
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, You fixed PPC builds? :-]
<ogra> cody-somerville, compcache went in on alpha4 release day (some hours to late for alpha4 :( )
<soren> Riddell: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99update-notifier
<cody-somerville> ogra, ah kay
<ogra> cody-somerville, casper uses 25% compcache by default and switches compcache off on systems with more than 512M
<Riddell> soren: thanks
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: not the one you care about, sorry
<cjwatson> a separate problem
<cjwatson> sorry, I really do need to get to that but it's a pain
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, :-(
<soren> Riddell: :)
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, Did you ever get a chance to read over that e-mail I sent you?
<cjwatson> e-mail is a dead loss for me this week; I'm away and my home VPN is down ...
<cjwatson> so I can't even check until Monday
<cjwatson> (argh, etc.)
<ion_> ogra: You spoke of moving the percentage etc. logic from the hook to a script. You began doing the change IIRC â did you finish it, and if not, is there a public branch i could pull from to do it, or perhaps something i could dget?
<ogra> ion_, i found a more sane way and kept most of you stuff as is
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I assume you mean Tuesday? :)
<cjwatson> Keybuk: ooh, I forgot about the bank holiday
<ogra> ion_, i didnt change much, just dropped the instane SKIP_COMPCACHE carp again, exported BOOT from init and checked for BOOT=casper and TotalMemory >512M
<ogra> just look at initramfs-tools ... if your system is up to date you should have the recent code ... the way it works didnt change at all, its all as you know it
<ion_> ogra: Alright
<ion_> benc: Is there going to be a -386 kernel for intrepid in the near future, btw?
<BenC> ion_: There already is one, but I think it's in universe (which is wrong)
<ion_> benc: Ah, there seems to be an 2.6.25-1-386 indeed. Hadnât noticed it, since linux-image-386 depends on 2.6.24something and i also have hardy entries in sources.list. Will there be one in sync with the -generic kernel version?
<LaserJock> asac: around?
<BenC> ion_: Not likely
<MacSlow> Does Xorg or dbus set $XDG_SESSION_COOKIE?
<ion_> benc: But there will be one for the final release of 8.10, right?
<ion_> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90consolekit:if [ -z "$XDG_SESSION_COOKIE" ] && [ -x "$CK_LAUNCH_SESSION" ]; then
<lool> ion_: That's something else; it's CK integration
<lool> MacSlow: I think it's gdm
<ion_> Alright
<lool> g_setenv ("XDG_SESSION_COOKIE", ck_session_cookie, TRUE);
<lool> MacSlow: ^
<lool> ion_: That might set it if you are using startx though
<lool> So basically XDG_SESSION_COOKIE is set in consolekit sessions, either started by gdm or ck-launch-session as ion_ pointed out (startx/xinit)
<asac> LaserJock: ?
<ogra> lool, (nitpick) or by sshd if you log in with -X or -Y
<ogra> :)
<LaserJock> asac: I ran into bug #255839 and found that a simple mkdir /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections fixed it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255839 in network-manager "0.7 N-M "system setting" does not work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255839
<LaserJock> asac: would that dir normally be created at install time?
<lool> ogra: Oh really?  how is this done?
<ogra> lool, cjwatson patched sshd to use CK for X sessions
<lool> I recall seeing that, but I can't find it in the changelog anymore
<asac> LaserJock: ok thanks. fix committed
<asac> LaserJock: attached branch to bug accordingly
<LaserJock> asac: awesome, for the first time NM actually works for all my network connections :-)
<asac> LaserJock: tell that to those voices that dont want me to make network-manager conflict with ifupdown ;)
<ogra> lool, openssh (1:4.7p1-4ubuntu1)
<asac> LaserJock: what kind of connections did you have? do you still have your interfaces?
<asac> (config file)
<LaserJock> asac: I have a static IP eth0, a uni WPA-enterprise (which today killed NM) wifi, and a normal home wifi
<asac> LaserJock: ok. did you have all configured in "interfaces"?
<LaserJock> no, just the static IP
<LaserJock> I was trying to let NM handle wifi and "interfaces" handle eth0
<asac> LaserJock: how did you configure your dns? dns-nameserver stanza + resolvconf?
<asac> (for the static IP thing=
<LaserJock> in Hardy I did everything via the Gnome Network tool
<LaserJock> for Intrepid I was manually editing /etc/resolv.conf on every reboot
<asac> ok ... that means that all was ifupdown aka interfaces
<LaserJock> yeah
<asac> LaserJock: do you still have the config you had in hardy?
<LaserJock> hmm, yes I do actually
<LaserJock> I  made a backup of /etc before I blew it away
<LaserJock> hmm, /etc/network/interfaces is empty except for lo in my Hardy config
<asac> strange
<asac> then you used NM for everything?
<LaserJock> oh, I bet I know why
<LaserJock> I managed the wifi vs static IP by using the profiles in the Network tool
<asac> oh. never heard of such a feature
<asac> so where does that store the config ... snippets?
<LaserJock> if that info was stored somewhere in /etc I could maybe dig it out
<LaserJock> that I don't know let me grep
<LaserJock> hmm, doesn't seem to be in /etc
<asac> hmm. is that tool gone in intrepid now?
<asac> cant find it in menu
<LaserJock> yes, it was removed
<LaserJock> but you can install it
<LaserJock> GNOME start menu applet
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> gnome-main-menu is the package
<LaserJock> man, bad morning
<LaserJock> gnome-network-admin *is* the package
<asac> whats the binary name
<asac> let me look
<asac> i dont have that on my system;)
<asac> but i have that thing here in hardy
<LaserJock> yes
<asac> ok gnome-system-tools
<LaserJock> right, it was taken out and put in its own package for Intrepid
<LaserJock> as it's not installed by default
<asac> ok thats saved in user profile
<asac> .gnome2/network-admin-locations/test1234
<LaserJock> awesome found it
<asac> well ... probably that generates the interfaces on the fly
<LaserJock> that'd be my guess
<LaserJock> asac: why do you want the interfaces?
<asac> i want more real-life test cases for the NM 0.7 system-config backend that tries to parse interfaces ;)
<LaserJock> so having NM be able to deal with interfaces people have hacked on?
<asac> yes ... more or less
<LaserJock> right now it seems to write a perfect interfaces, for me anyway
<asac> the idea is to ease transition for users that used other setups in the past
<LaserJock> asac: well, I can make my own interfaces and see what NM does if you'd like :-)
<asac> LaserJock: good. ill bring up the latest and let you know
<BenC> ogra: are you using tbird from intrepid?
<ogra> i'm using evo
<superm1> BenC, thunderbird in intrepid shouldn't be too different than hardy's (according to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird )
<mathiaz> slangasek: I'm trying to build the nssov overlay from openldap. But it seems there are issues with the includes - have you already tried to build one of the contrib modules for slapd ?
<BenC> superm1: yeah, nm, I found my issue
<superm1> BenC, if my memory serves me right, one of those extensions in that list i gave you had to be hand modified to work on the latest tbird.  just rev'ing the version number inside the jar was sufficient ,but the rest should be sane
<asac> LaserJock: ok i uploaded new NM to ~network-manager PPA should be there in a few ... once that is done you can change /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf to --plugins=ifupdown,keyfile and sudo killall nm-system-settings
<asac> LaserJock: to avoid confusion maybe remove "keyfile" for testing
<LaserJock> asac: so before I kill nm-system-settings I'll want to have a "custom" interfaces in place or should I do that after?
<asac> LaserJock: edit interfaces, then kill that settings thing
<asac> LaserJock: maybe start with a simple config ;)
<asac> auto eth0 dhcp ;)
<slangasek> kirkland: pong; have you created a config that's missing a Priority: field?
<slangasek> mathiaz: if you mean you're trying to build an out-of-tree overlay for openldap, no, I've never done that
<mathiaz> slangasek: well - it's the nssov overlay located in contrib/
<mathiaz> slangasek: but I've figured it out
<slangasek> ok
<LaserJock> asac: well, auto eth0 dhcp won't get me far, I don't have a dhcp server around
<calc> so how is intrepid on intel graphics now, still having issues?
 * calc is considering upgrading his machines, but might should wait until intrepid beta
<LaserJock> calc: what kind of issues was it having?
<lool> calc: I'm having issues on intel graphics, but didn't investigate
<lool> Like refresh / sync issues, it's not clear; windows are "out of date"
<slangasek> kirkland: ah, seen your bug now; don't call pam-auth-update in the postrm
<slangasek> kirkland: I'm working on adding a --remove option for use in prerm remove
<emgent> evening
<calc> LaserJock: not sure i've just read people were having lots of problems on intrepid a while back and was wondering what the current state is before attempting to upgrade
<LaserJock> calc: it's working quite good for me
<LaserJock> calc: only X problems I've had were some Xchat unminimizing weirdnesses I think
<calc> ok
<LaserJock> calc: I'm personally finding Intrepid mostly better than Hardy currently
<LaserJock> I've had a couple hard freezes but that's mostly it
 * LaserJock stops thinking of all the little bugs in Intrepid before he changes calc's mind
<bytor4232> Hey guys
<bytor4232> I did an upgrade of Intrepid Alpha 5 last night, and nothing could log in.
<bytor4232>  "cannot make/remove an entry for the specified session"
<bytor4232> Had to wipe and reinstall from the alpha5 disc.
<slangasek> bytor4232: first bit in the /topic
<bytor4232> ah
<bytor4232> sweet.
<bytor4232> Thanks slangasek, I'll hang tight on upgrading.
<slangasek> bytor4232: it's already fixed, upgrading now is fine
<bytor4232> slangasek: Cool.  I'll run an upgrade tonight or tomorrow.
<hwilde> LaserJock, little bugs are tasty.  just get some chocolate on there :)
 * BenC finally has his email setup moved to tbird
<bytor4232> BenC: I love tbird.  Its spam filtering is top notch once you start training it.
<persia> calc: Do be careful it you've an odd input mechanism.  xinput hotplug doesn't quite autodetect everything cleanly yet.
<hwilde> bytor4232, its a legit bayesian neural net :)
<BenC> bytor4232: I never had any complaints about evo+bogofilter
<BenC> as far as spam filtering at least
 * bytor4232 gets a lot of spam.
<bytor4232> support@ableteam.com, admin@ableteam.com are pretty big magnets.
<JontheEchidna> gmail catches most of my spam
<JontheEchidna> bogofilter gets most of the rest
<okaratas> hello
<BenC> is lrm-generic installed by default on live-cd's?
<geser> is it normal that /etc/pam.d/common-{password,session} list pam_permit.so twice? wouldn't be using it once enough?
<slangasek> geser: it's a stack padding thing
<slangasek> geser: a more elegant solution is still percolating through my brain
<slangasek> (the code that writes out the rest of the stack makes assumptions about how far to jump, you see)
<bazaar> hi. is it possible to translate a single char with gettext?
<bazaar> i mean really a char, not a one character char-array / string.
<slangasek> if you mean the gettext C functions, then no
<slangasek> string in, string out
<lool> Why not convert them to a string?
<bazaar> (yeah i mean C) so how can i accomplish to translate user input like 'y' or 'n' on a question like "DO you want to (y/n) ?"
<bazaar> i mean at the point where comparison happens.
<slangasek> well, you can always walk a character array
<bazaar> if tolower(input_char) == _('y') . . yadayda
<slangasek> to compare
<persia> bazaar: If you're not worried about performance, check that the first character of the string matches and that tha string length is 1.
<lool> _('Are you sure (%s/%s)?') % (_('y'), _('n'))
<slangasek> lool: "", not '' :)
<slangasek> bazaar: also, you can't use tolower() here safely for all locales
<persia> slangasek: Won't it do an implicit cast in that case though?
<lool> slangasek: Remember this is pseudo code, you didn't recognize any particular langage I hope  :-P
<slangasek> bazaar: because a "character" won't necessarily fit in 8 bits
<slangasek> persia: you mean the "" vs ''?  not in C...
<lool> Ok, off to dinner and probably done for today; /me waves Â« "night Â»
<slangasek> using '' around something that's not a single char will get you a compiler error
<bazaar> persia: right tolower() won't work. i think i'll use first character + length test. thank you.
<lool> persia: '' is character
<lool> in C
<persia> slangasek: Ah.  I must have looked at too much not-quite-C recently then.
<slangasek> persia, bazaar: a string length of 1 also fails in such cases; you basically need to convert to wchar_t first if you want to compare a single char in a charset-independent fashion
<slangasek> persia: yes, many not-C languages are nice to look at :)
<bazaar> do i need to use all the "wide" functions (wprintf etc.) if i've localized my program? or will the printf() stuff work?
<geser> aren't there also zero-length characters in unicode which are only used in combination with others?
<slangasek> you wouldn't need to use widechars for everything; mostly, only when you're trying to do single-char comparisons
<slangasek> (as opposed to single-byte comparisons)
<slangasek> geser: <mumble>
<slangasek> geser: if you start worrying about that, you have to link in a Unicode library that can do normalization for you :P
<geser> bazaar: better yes, if you do formatted output as 5 chars != strlen of 5
<bazaar> so if i want to print a message (w)printf("Hello everyone. This will be printed in your language!"); -- which one should i use?
<slangasek> geser: I was limiting myself to "here's how you make this work for CJK users", not "here's how you make it cope with Macs"
<bazaar> sry: (w)printf(_("Yada Yada"));
<slangasek> bazaar: the output of _() is going to be of type char*, not of type wchar_t*; so you would always use printf() instead of wprintf(), unless you have some other reason you need to convert it first
<bazaar> ah. i see. ok. thanks. guess i should do a little more manual reading again.
<persia> Isn't UTF-8 usually handled OK (terminal width aside) even from C strings?  "åã®æ¬" is more than 3 bytes, but does one typically need to care for output purposes?
<persia> Ah, question answered while being typed :)
<geser> bazaar: in that case printf() should be ok, but don't try to use a multi-byte char string with printf("%80s", ...) to fit it in one terminal line
<slangasek> persia: for output - no.  But if you want to compare two chars, instead of two strings, you need a "char" type that can accomodate kanji :)
<persia> slangasek: Right, which is why string length of 1 byte is wrong (but string length of 1 character is right), which is why I should not look at any more loosely typed languages.
<kees> asac: how do I mark myself "online" so things like firefox don't think I'm offline?
<geser> persia: your example is also good to show that 3 (wide) characters may need more space than 3 terminal "cells"
<persia> geser: Indeed, although that's common for CJK.  "ã¨ã¡ãã" is preferred over "ï½´ï¾ï½¯ï¾" when writing my name, for example.
<persia> (plus, not all characters have a half-width form)
<geser> but one to think about it when converting an app from char* to support multi-byte strings (UTF-8) and not simply replace strlen() with wcslen() when trying to compute how much space a string will need
<geser> space on the terminal
<poningru> hey guys who should I talk to regarding the netboot initrd and the structure in it?
<poningru> as in this guy: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/initrd.gz
<Mithrandir> poningru: try #ubuntu-installer, probably.
<poningru> danke
<slangasek> hmm, is prerm remove + removal of files from the filesystem always an atomic operation wrt dpkg?
<DktrKranz> are packages in -proposed (once they've been built and published) available to other packages in proposed too or they become available only when moved to -updates?
<sbeattie> DktrKranz: yes, packages in -proposed are built against -proposed as well (though it's a policy I disagree with)
<DktrKranz> thanks
<slangasek> sbeattie: well, I don't know how you would propose we stage kernel ABI changes without it :)
<jcastro> anyone know the component responsible for ejecting the CD at the end of the install?
<jcastro> or should I just file a bug against ubiquity?
<slangasek> eject-udeb
<jcastro> thanks
<slangasek> but ubiquity is usually a good place to start anyway, for liveCD bugs
<jcastro> well, I wanted to file a feature request for the server install, is ubiquity still the right place?
<jcastro> dealing with the eject stuff I mean
<slangasek> oh, for server install, no - that's definitely eject-udeb
<jcastro> ok
#ubuntu-devel 2008-08-22
<slangasek> kirkland: pam 1.0.1-3ubuntu3 uploaded
<slangasek> kirkland: now supports --remove <profile>
<kirkland> slangasek: yo
<kirkland> slangasek: is that what I should use in the postrm?
<slangasek> kirkland: in the prerm
<slangasek> kirkland: I replied to your bug; getting your mail?
<kirkland> slangasek: sifting through now
<slangasek> k
<kirkland> slangasek: just got back to the hotel
<slangasek> where are you this week that involves all this hotelling? :)
<kirkland> slangasek: london
<slangasek> oh-ho
<kirkland> slangasek: managers doing their thing, though i had a few work items that involved stealing cjwatson's time
<kirkland> slangasek: seeing as the installer is tightly guarded magic ;-)
<slangasek> heh
<kirkland> (just kidding for anyone else out there (or reading scrollback)
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, i'll move the call to prerm
<kirkland> slangasek: how did you feel about my postinst logic?
<kirkland> slangasek: changed drastically from the md5sum stuff you saw last night
<slangasek> hmm, perhaps I need to look clos
<slangasek> er
<slangasek> I don't think I re-reviewed that part yet
<kirkland> slangasek: i subscribed you to the bug
<kirkland> slangasek: let me grab the #
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> I have it
<kirkland> slangasek: i decided that the md5sum of those files depended too much on the precise wording of the pam configs you spit out
<kirkland> slangasek: actually, what i (selfishly) care about is whether pam_ecryptfs is in the stack or not
<kirkland> actually, i'm in London, so "whether pam_ecryptfs is in the stack or naught"
<slangasek> kirkland: ah.  no, I'm not happy with that as a solution.
<kirkland> slangasek: i figured as much...
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, so lets work this to a compromise..........
<slangasek> kirkland: we only want to use --force when we can *verify* that the config files currently on disk are the ones output previously by auth-client-config
<kirkland> slangasek: almost....
<slangasek> kirkland: if they weren't output by auth-client-config, then AFAICS it's always out of scope for this package to force an overwrite of the user's config
<kirkland> slangasek: what about when a user has modified their own pam config, said "libpam-client, leave me alone", and then installed ecryptfs-utils
<kirkland> that's a bit harsh....
<slangasek> then it's absolutely not the place for this package to override that
<kirkland> agreed.
<slangasek> because --force will overwrite the config with *no* prompting
<kirkland> see: harsh.
<slangasek> did you happen to see my proposed postinst from last night? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39257/
<slangasek> if you can show that there's a case where this doesn't DTRT, that we can fix without clobbering users' config in some cases, then I'm happy to accept that
<kirkland> slangasek: i did, however, this involves a lot of trust that the giant blob of comments in those files will not change
<slangasek> but --force is only meant to be used when the calling package knows that the configs are not modified by the user
<slangasek> er, howso?
<kirkland> slangasek: let's say that we ship with an ecyrptfs-utils with a hardcoded md5sum
<slangasek> we only need to use --force to handle upgrades from a version that pre-dates pam-auth-config
<kirkland> slangasek: IIUC, that md5sum should be a default Ubuntu pam config, where a user has told libpam-client, "yes, please, manage my pam"
<kirkland> slangasek: so i get hardcode that md5sum for each of the 3 pam configs i care about
<slangasek> the md5sum is the md5sum for the legacy auth-client-config version
<slangasek> we're saying "if the user has the config installed by auth-client-config, we know it's safe to overwrite it without prompting"
<kirkland> slangasek: ah, that's where, perhaps, we're differing in approaches
<kirkland> slangasek: i don't care that much about those individuals
<kirkland> slangasek: if someone told libpam-client, "no, please, don't mess with my pam", and they had auth-client-config'd pam_ecryptfs, they still have what I need in the stack
<slangasek> sorry, what's "libpam-client" here?
<slangasek> libpam-runtime?
<kirkland> slangasek: libpam-runtime
<slangasek> ok
<kirkland> slangasek: pam-client-update/pam-auth-update
<kirkland> :-P
<kirkland> pam-client-config
<kirkland> asdfasdhqw[eriqwlefnsz;ldhqw;elrnaw;eohjqw;erihjqwelih
<kirkland> sorry
<slangasek> if the user said "no, don't mess with my pam" (which is the default) and they had auth-client-config'd pam_ecryptfs, then they have a set of files that ecryptfs-utils, but not libpam-runtime itself, can detect it's safe to overwrite
<kirkland> bye guys
<slangasek> if the user said "no, don't mess with my pam" and they /don't/ have pam_ecryptfs in their config, then it's not appropriate for pam_ecryptfs to force itself in there by ignoring the admin's choice
<slangasek> if the user /didn't/ say "no, don't mess with my pam" then --force is a no-op
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, that seems fair
<kirkland> slangasek: what state of a file, then, should I md5sum as the "--force"able state?
<kirkland> hello guys
<slangasek> and, in the case that they do have a config populated by auth-client-config, we want to upgrade it to the new system so that they get the full n-way module integration going forward
<kirkland> slangasek: i drew a flowchart on the whiteboard today, i wish i would have photographed........
<slangasek> kirkland: if all of /etc/pam.d/common-{auth,password,session} match what auth-client-config spits out for ecryptfs by default, and /etc/pam.d/common-account matches what libpam-runtime shipped in hardy
<kirkland> slangasek: absolutely, the user will have to upgrade libpam-runtime first
<slangasek> that's the only case I see where we can say: yes, we know what's in these configs and the user didn't touch them, so we can overwrite without having to ask the user for permission
<kirkland> slangasek: that user will have to tell libpam-runtime "yes", or "no"
<slangasek> kirkland: I would encourage you to test the proposed postinst in http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39257/ and see if you can find a case where it doesn't do what's expected :)
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, so the case for --force is when /etc/pam.d/common-[auth|password|session] is that which was configured by auth-client-config precisely (as defined by md5sum)
 * slangasek nods
<kirkland> which implies that the answer to libpam-client was "NooOOOOOOO"
<slangasek> if it doesn't match precisely, we really can't know what it is that we'd be overwriting
<slangasek> right
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, gimme a few to fan that out over a few kvms
<slangasek> ok :)
<kirkland> slangasek: you around for a few?
<slangasek> yep
<kirkland> slangasek: i'd love to kill this one and have a good nights sleep :-)
 * slangasek grins
 * kirkland makes himself busy
<slangasek> you mean you won't be like me, sitting at your computer for hours at a time and giddily flipping the switches on pam to watch what happens?
<NCommander> kirkland, what are you trying to kill?
<NCommander> (I'm currently killing the ada issues in hardy, but I can take a break from it)
<kirkland> NCommander: thanks for the offer
 * NCommander waits for the but
<kirkland> NCommander: i think i've convinced myself yet again that slangasek is the brilliance he expects him to be
<kirkland> s/he/i/
<slangasek> s/brilliance/eerie dpkg state machine/
<NCommander> slangasek's brilliance can't be measured in rational numbers
<slangasek> if it were really brilliance, it shouldn't have taken me 5 years to get from concept to implementation :P
<ion_> My brilliance is entirely imaginary, too.
<NCommander> slangasek, of what specifically?
<slangasek> NCommander: pam-auth-update
<NCommander> it could be worse
<slangasek> (augh, I almost called it pam-auth-config again, I really /did/ name it wrong)
<NCommander> You could have ended up coding something like RPM/Vista
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, the trick now is finding a kvm of mine that hasn't been maligned yet with curse-ed intrepid updates, with which to take pristine md5sums :-)
<slangasek> kirkland: hmm, I thought we already knew what the md5sums were/
 * slangasek gesticulates in the direction of his pastebin url
<kirkland> slangasek: i had them, a pastebin from last night, if that is to be trusted
<kirkland> slangasek: i want to confirm that
<slangasek> ok
<kirkland> slangasek: for better or worse, i've upgraded almost everything of mine to your new magic
 * slangasek grins
 * NCommander roots for slangasek's new magic
<kirkland> slangasek: ha ha....   fortunately, i have 40G of virtual machines :-)
<NCommander> lol
<kirkland> slangasek: okay, tell me what you think of http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39565/
<slangasek> kirkland: I think you should also guard against the possibility that /etc/pam.d/common-account has been modified; and I think you do need to have a version check; and I think my code was prettier ;)
<kirkland> slangasek: indulge me.... what does the version check gain us?
<slangasek> kirkland: but the only one of these that I think is a blocker is the version check - we should skip this md5sum checks entirely if we aren't upgrading from a known non-pam-auth-update version
<slangasek> kirkland: it allows for the possibility that, after upgrade, a user has deliberately re-installed the old config files
<slangasek> kirkland: I have honestly had users do this sort of thing before, and become irate that on every package update, I would overwrite their config anew :-)
<kirkland> slangasek: fair enough.  for whatever reason, i decided to write this from scratch before just plugging and chugging with your code as pasted http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/39257/
<slangasek> kirkland: to understand it bette? :)
<slangasek> better
<kirkland> wow, /me notes the similarity in at least the two comment statements
<slangasek> well, you wrote them both, AFAIK ;)
<kirkland> slangasek: in that case, both of me agree
<kirkland> hehe
<slangasek> excellent!
<kirkland> slangasek: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecryptfs-utils/+bug/259915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259915 in ecryptfs-utils "ecryptfs should use pam-auth-update rather than auth-client-config" [High,In progress]
<kirkland> slangasek: i'm satisfied with the testing of that patch in my scenarios
<slangasek> kirkland: rockin', let me roll that up
<kirkland> slangasek: does "roll that up" mean "sponsor it"?   if so, I'd be delighted....
<slangasek> yes
<kirkland> slangasek: rocking
<kirkland> slangasek: i didn't see an upload yet....   did you have a problem with the patch?  or just more pressing issues?
<kirkland> slangasek: i was just about to call it a night
<slangasek> kirkland: samba was ahead of it in my outbound queue; it's uploaded now
<slangasek> \o/
<kirkland> slangasek: nice, thx
<slangasek> kirkland: hmm, FTBFS on lpia?
<kirkland> slangasek: typical
<kirkland> slangasek: have never investigated
<slangasek> ok
<kirkland> slangasek: ie, not a regression
<slangasek> it appears to be a regression relative to version 50-1ubuntu1, the last one that built
<slangasek> but not a high-priority regression, clearly :)
<bytor4232> So, is it safe to upgrade now?  Is pam gonna bork me hard like it did last night ;)
 * bytor4232 never even got a phone call
<bytor4232> No flowers, no nothin
<Hobbsee> it's never save, until it's released.
<RAOF> And #ubuntu+1 is likely to contain answers. :)
<bytor4232> cool
<maco> bug #163156 can be fixed, according to upstream and System76, with new versions of libusb and libfprint.  is there any chance of that bug being closed in intrepid, or will it have to wait for jiggy jaguar to support that hardware?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 163156 in linux-source-2.6.22 "UPEK TouchStrip 147e:2016 not supported at all" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163156
<crimsun> maco: note the proximity of feature freeze.
<StevenK> "jiggy jaguar" Oh noes, I hope not.
<lifeless> jivin jython?
<maco> is a jython an animal? i thought it was just a made up name for the language
<lifeless> it is
<maco> crimsun: you already talked to me in person. i wanted to see if others agreed with you that it's "oh noes" or if someone who knew more about how libusb works could say if core functionality was affected or not
<crimsun> maco: I suspect it's not a matter of "oh noes" but lack of adequate testing
<TheMuso> crimsun: Can I help with the issue re pulse by default with a fallback to dmix for alsa-lib?
<TheMuso> In terms of patching/implementing?
<maco> TheMuso: crimsun says, "tell him that sjoerd's patch is in alsa-plugins 1.0.17 and newer and can be backported to the current one.  and tell him to make sure he checks that the pulseaudio patch that's in debian/patches/ is in place that checks for the environment variable"
<TheMuso> maco: Thanks.
<maco> ok now crimsun and i go to bed
<maco> night night guys
<TheMuso> Yay I love ambiguity in replies in the third person. :)
<dholbach> good morning
<raphink> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi raphink
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> what's up?
<dholbach> just got through most of my mails and will dive into the sponsoring queue now!
<dholbach> as you all should :)
<raphink> hehe :s
<raphink> some time soon, I might get a job with a day for Ubuntu every week
<ion_> xserver-xorg-hardcore
<tjaalton> ion_: surely you meant xserver-xxxorg-hardcore
<nxvl> good morning
<cjwatson> slangasek: any time I run pam-auth-update, it duplicates the Additional block in /etc/pam.d/common-*
<cjwatson> slangasek: though interestingly it does not duplicate pam_unix in common-password
<cjwatson> slangasek: this is bad because the duplicated-bits files cause PAM clients (at least gnome-screensaver and login) to segfault ...
<cjwatson> aha
<cjwatson> Name: libpam-runtime/profiles
<cjwatson> Template: libpam-runtime/profiles
<cjwatson> Value: unix, smbpasswd-migrate, ecryptfs-utils, smbpasswd-migrate, ecryptfs-utils
<persia> Is anyone up for archive-admin stuff today?
<nxvl> persia: i think Hobbsee is
<persia> Hobbsee: Can you NEW stuff?
<nxvl> but, today is pitti's turn and he is on vacation
<persia> nxvl: Hence me not poking anyone specifically :)
<Hobbsee> persia: yes.  not at this time of night while i'm half asleep, though...
<Hobbsee> unless it's really simple
<persia> Hobbsee: It's really simple.  ubuntu-mid-default-settings.  Maybe 20 lines of code, total.
<nxvl> Hobbsee: @ .au you have the same tz as japan?
<Hobbsee> it's 11.45pm now here
<persia> nxvl: No, it's even later for her
<Hobbsee> not sure what japan is
<nxvl> yeah, one hour
 * nxvl love's gnome clock
 * Hobbsee looks
<Hobbsee> persia: accepted.
 * persia adds another 100g to the chocolate debt tally
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  i wonder if that's a launchpad bug.
<Hobbsee> OK: ubuntu-mid-default-settings(universe/(unchanged))
<Hobbsee> yes, apparently it is.
<persia> This is a new and different LP bug, or a previous one?
<Hobbsee> apparently it's not a bug.
<Hobbsee> persia: your binaries are served.
<Hobbsee> well, they're still pending an archive run.  but served enough.
<persia> Hobbsee: Thank you ever so much.  Now I can go about filing the appropriate removal requests :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> can't do them, i'm afriad
<persia> No worries.  I'm not blocked on removals, as this means I can ignore the crud until later.
<Hobbsee> true
<bazaar> hi. is it possible to do bindtextdomain() with gettext without all those subdirectories ("en_US/LC_MESSAGES/")?
<huats> I am a bit annoyed : I am creating a new package (a python module) which is called pywebkitgtk (pythons bindings for the webkitgtk). According to my understanding of the python policy, the name of the package should fe python-modulename... which in my case will be python-webkit
<huats> isn't it a bit problematic ?
<huats> (I mean the loss of the gtk stuff) ?
<ogra> python-webkitgtk would be appropriate i guess
<ogra> like we have python-gtk2 for upstreams pygtk
<ogra> (not sure why that still carries the 2 though)
<huats> but the thing is in that case gtk2 is the module name I think
<huats> and thus is respects the policy
<ogra> i dont think upstream calls it pygtk2
<huats> ok
<ogra> but if your modules is called pywebkitgtk i'd call the package python-webkitgtk
<ogra> *module
<huats> ogra the project is called pywebkitgtk
<huats> but the module is called webkit
<ogra> well, but its not pywebkitqt :)
<huats> :)
<huats> ok
<huats> so I name it python-webkitgtk thus
<huats> thanks
<dholbach> james_w: ^ do you know anything about that?
<james_w> huats: can you give the link to the policy where you saw this?
<huats> sure
<james_w> I've seen pretty much all the alternatives I think
<huats> but let me first find it again :)
<james_w> i.e. using the upstream project name, the module name, or something else that makes more sense
<huats> james_w:  http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-module_packages.html
<huats> 2.2
<huats> Public modules should be packaged with a name of python-foo, where foo is the name of the module
<james_w> yeah
<huats> (and what I explained is my understanding of that :))
<jcristau> 'should' != 'must' though
<huats> ok
<james_w> it's odd they called the module just "webkit"
<ogra> yeah
<james_w> couldn't there be pure bindings to webkit with that name?
<ogra> especially if thats gtk specific
<james_w> yeah
<huats> i'll report that upstream (I ve very good contacts with them)
<james_w> huats: yeah, ask them
<james_w> I'd advise going against policy if there's any chance that there will be a pure python-webkit, to save headaches later
<ogra> and you will definately make Riddell happy in case there comes a pywebkitqt at some point
<huats> OK
<huats> so I change my package name to python-webkitgtk
<huats> and I ask upstream explaining them everything
<huats> (and pushing them toward changing the name of the module...)
<ogra> :)
<huats> thanks ogra, james_w and dholbach
<dholbach> de rien
<dholbach> have a great weekend everybody! :)
<huats> :)
<Riddell> ogra: there is
<Riddell> and it uses namespaces
<asac> kees: there?
<mathiaz> Koon: slangasek and kirkland were working on some pam update changes
<kirkland> mathiaz: what's up?
<mathiaz> Koon: you may wanna ask them about how to handle pam configuration update wrt to likewise-open
<Koon> mathiaz: yes, I suppose it's related. But dendrobates is handling the likewise-open update right now. I'm busy with tomcat6 and wbem
<Koon> I only did a quick test on my AD test infra
<Koon> kirkland: likewise-open can't join a domain, complains about the current PAM files layout. Apparently a change in /etc/pam.d in recent pam updates confuses it
<kirkland> Koon: that's certainly possible...  what does it use?  auth-client-config?
<Koon> kirkland: it uses its own let-me-whack-your-pam.d functions
<kirkland> Koon: oh, that's about as bad as it gets then
<kirkland> Koon: grab the source for ecryptfs-utils
<kirkland> Koon: see the bits that involve pam-auth-update
<kirkland> Koon: requires libpam-runtime >= something
<kirkland> Koon: you'll need a config file for it
<kirkland> Koon: and to conditionally run pam-auth-update
<Koon> kirkland: might not have time to do that -- but dendrobates will be interested by the pointers
<kees> asac: good morning :)
<dendrobates> kees: fedora and Redhat.  hahahaha
<asac> kees: good morning ... bb in 40min
<asac> ;)
<dendrobates> kees: I'm sure they had a good laugh at us.  ;)
<emgent> dendrobates: lol
<kees> dendrobates: to name it 'openssh-blacklist'.  it's so confusing, it's funny.  :)
<wgrant> kees: I saw that and wondered if I'd misunderstood the vulnerability, then I realised that they just named it badly.
<emgent> we have high confidence
<emgent> that the intruder was not able to capture the passphrase used to secure
<emgent> the Fedora package signing key
<emgent> haha
<mkrufky> LOL
<mkrufky> if you ask me... if anybody cares about security, that key needs to be changed regardles, lol
<jcristau> mkrufky: guess what.. that's what they're doing
<cjwatson> slangasek: do you know what http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/stable is, apart from a Windows executable?
<mkrufky> is intrepid safe enough to use for a developer who isnt afraid to get his hands dirty (but would prefer not)
<mkrufky> ?
<cody-somerville> mkrufky, the safe answer is no
<mkrufky> hehe
<mkrufky> ok
<mkrufky> thanks, cody-somerville
 * calc still isn't using intrepid either :)
<persia> mkrufky: That said, lots of people do use it every day, just be aware that it *will* break, so you may need to fix it.
<calc> i just build in a intrepid chroot
<kirkland> slangasek: Riddell: cjwatson: hi arch admins...  kees pointed me to you, to "deNEW" the package update-motd from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue
<calc> i'll probably upgrade to intrepid on Oct 2 (Beta)
<mkrufky> hmm, well then maybe its a better idea for me to just install hardy on this new server
<mkrufky> (server for home use -- not for business)
<Riddell> kirkland: looking
<Riddell> kirkland: accepted
<kirkland> Riddell: thank you, sir!
<Riddell> mvo: http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/update-notifier-kde_0.1_all.deb should you want to take a keek
<ogra> kirkland, "update-motd - This package contains a generic framework for regularly running"
<ogra> running what ?
<Riddell> doh
<ogra> a sports package :)
<kirkland> ogra: whatever you put in /etc/update-motd.d/, concatenated together and written to your motd
<kirkland> ogra: is the control file broken?
<Riddell> kirkland: first line of description is the short description, that should be fixed
<ogra> looks like
<persia> Also overly wordy: doesn't fit the guideline $(packagename) is a $(short-description)
<Riddell> long descriptin starts on the next line
<kirkland> Riddell: that should be a one liner, then?
 * \sh has a new toy...acer netbook, with 120GB hd...looks very neat...now it just needs ubuntu on it, and not linspire
<Riddell> kirkland: yes
<ogra> yeah, its trivial and not harmful
<kirkland> Riddell: fudge, sorry, i'll fix immediately :-)
<persia> kirkland: Also doesn't need to be a full sentence: just a predicate clause
<kirkland> persia: ogra: Riddell: hows "Description: Modular framework for running scripts to generate the /etc/motd"
<kirkland> <80 chars
<Riddell> works for me
<ogra> Modular framework for to generate the message of the day dynamically ?
<ogra> -for
<kirkland> ogra: that's better
<persia> kirkland: Yes, that would be the typical pattern
<bluefoxicy> so did anyone make the consideration that I might actually not like running f-spot?
 * persia wonders how this got through REVU, and decides that the REVUers need training again
<bluefoxicy> like, back in the day, GNOME was like, "Hey you just plugged in a card containing pictures.  Want to import photos?"
<bluefoxicy> these days it just opens f-spot.
<calc> yea, i have to constantly kill that stupid app
<bluefoxicy> so I went to system->preferences->removable media and unchecked everything, particularly "Import digital photographs when connected" for cameras
<bluefoxicy> it still does it.
<persia> bluefoxicy: changelogs are the key to understanding history.
<calc> i just want to cp -a the files over
<bluefoxicy> so I deleted `which f-spot`
<persia> Is there a bug for this?
<bluefoxicy> it says it's attempting to open the card for a few seconds now, but doesn't run fspot
<bluefoxicy> what the hell?
<bluefoxicy> i don't know
<calc> bluefoxicy: hmm it shouldn't be importing photos if you turn it off, i forgot to just go in and do that myself
<calc> bluefoxicy: if it doesn't care its not checked then that would be a bug
<bluefoxicy> calc:  can you try to reproduce?
<calc> bluefoxicy: yea i can go get my camera card and see what it does
<calc> istr my camera card not doing it but a friends starting f-spot
<bluefoxicy> istr?
<calc> i seem to recall
<calc> ok got my card going to see what it does
 * ogra doesnt think gnome-volume-manager is particulary useful nowadays since gvfs handles all that 
<_MMA_> bluefoxicy: You also have to disable it through Nautilus now.
<kirkland> ogra: patch attached to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/260441
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260441 in ubuntu "description line too long for update-motd" [Low,In progress]
<ogra> right, what _MMA_ said
<bluefoxicy> _MMA_:  okay, wait, there's TWO places to disable the same feature?
<kirkland> ogra: any chance I could talk you into sponsoring?
<calc> _MMA_: so much for gnome being easy to use, lol
<kirkland> ogra: since it was your complaint?  :-) :-)
<bluefoxicy> and they're not linked
<_MMA_> Edit->Prefs-> Media tab
 * calc thinks that would be HIG non-compliant
<bluefoxicy> I'm going to have to call that a bug
<ogra> its a half done transition
<ogra> between gnome-vfs and gvfs
<bluefoxicy> lol
<bluefoxicy> I love the options for software
<bluefoxicy> "Ask what to do" "Open autorun prompt" (the second, I assume, asks you what to do... since it's called a "prompt")
<\sh> ogra: are you coming to froscon?
<ogra> \sh, froscon ?
<\sh> ogra: free and opensource conference, st. augustin ;)
<ogra> kirkland, looking, i will have to wait until i can grab the source pkg off the archive (i'm lazy) but will do the sponsoring then
<kirkland> ogra: cool dude, thanks.
<\sh> ogra: it starts tomorrow morning ;) so I wonder if you want to visit your old area ;) and have a nice o'reilly beer ,)
<ogra> \sh, hmm i saw the blog post from lydia ... thogh i thought st. augustin is somewhere in austria :P
<\sh> ogra: lol...between bonn and cgn yeah austria rotfl
<soren> 7win 7
<soren> gah...
<calc> more fun stuff on my system
<kirkland> soren: are you playing a slot machine?
<calc> when i plugged my sd card in it froze my system to where sysrq couldn't even reboot it
<calc> i had to hard reset it with power
<soren> kirkland: It feels that way.
<slangasek> cjwatson: hrm, looks like a wayward copy of wubi...
<slangasek> cjwatson: duplication when running pam-auth-update> which version do you have installed?  This should be fixed in the latest
<soren> slangasek: You never got back to me on the Nagios promotion thing in Hardy, did you?
<soren> I sent it on the Friday where you were probably leaving for Debconf, so timing is not on my side.
<slangasek> (unless, that is, I broke it again)
<slangasek> soren: no, I had not; though today looks promising, if I don't find that I have another pam fire I didn't notice from yesterday
<tseliot> mvo: is there a way to do something like markReinstall() with python-apt?
<soren> slangasek: Cool, thanks.
<mvo> tseliot: yes, give me a sec
<cjwatson> slangasek: 1.0.1-3ubuntu3
<cjwatson> slangasek: I filed a bug about it with the details
<slangasek> cjwatson: ok; I know which commit broke it then, I'll have a fixed package away shortly
<cjwatson> slangasek: great, thanks
<mvo> tseliot: cache._depcache.SetReInstall(pkg._pkg)
<tseliot> mvo: does cache stand for apt_pkg.GetCache or apt.Cache ?
<NCommander> persia, I am posting about the key team policy, I got no more responses w.r.t. to needing changes, so I'm calling the issue closed and resolved
<mvo> tseliot: apt.Cache
<tseliot> mvo: ok, thanks a lot
<mvo> cheers
<slangasek> cjwatson: hmm, when this /first/ happened to you, what version of libpam-runtime did you have installed?  I actually can't reproduce the problem, I wonder if I've already fixed it for everything but an upgrade case that I can't pinpoint
<tseliot> mvo: that method complains that it requires 2 arguments: self.cacheUi._depcache.SetReInstall(pkg._pkg) --> TypeError: function takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)
<cjwatson> slangasek: same
<mvo> tseliot: oh, sorry. please add a "True" if you want to reinstlal it and a "false" if you don't wnat to
<slangasek> cjwatson: hmm, ok.  still digging.
<cjwatson> slangasek: I did upgrade pam and ecryptfs-utils at different times; there was one pam upgrade where I got the "manage me?" question and a multiselect profiles question with just pam_unix, and then upgraded ecryptfs-utils later
<slangasek> I mean, I'm /pretty/ sure I know how to fix it, but I don't understand how to reproduce it to verify that it's fixed
<cjwatson> did the tarball I sent not manage to reproduce it, then?
<slangasek> oh, I should scroll down in the bug :P
<tseliot> mvo: ah, ok, it makes sense now, thanks again
<slangasek> kirkland: /usr/share/pam-configs/ecryptfs-utils doesn't need to be installed executable, fwiw
<cjwatson> yeah, kirkland said that to me earlier :)
<slangasek> heh :)
<slangasek> aha, I have to run with --package to get it to happen
<slangasek> because if the prompt is shown, debconf helpfully collapses the answers, right
<slangasek> ok, will take me a little longer than I thought to fix, then
<slangasek> ah, heh; there we go, my filter depends on being able to uniquely sort the profiles by priority :/
<kirkland> slangasek: yeah, i'll fix that in the next upload
<slangasek> cjwatson: fix uploaded; though I've once again failed to do the .changes generation on intrepid instead of sid, so I'll follow up to close the bug by hand
<cjwatson> heh, ok
<cjwatson> thanks
<slangasek> oh; no, I also ran dput on sid; so I have another chance to get the .changes right :-P
<kirkland> slangasek: patch available for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecryptfs-utils/+bug/260458
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260458 in ecryptfs-utils "/usr/share/pam-configs/ecryptfs-utils doesn't need to be installed executable" [Undecided,New]
<slangasek> kirkland: 644 please, not 444
<kirkland> slangasek: really?
<kirkland> slangasek: why?
<slangasek> because those are the standard perms for all files
<kirkland> slangasek: hmm, okay.  i just couldn't see any case where that file should be rewritten
<slangasek> only in cases of emergency, really :)
<kirkland> slangasek: whatever you say, boss.  updated patch posted to that bug
<slangasek> <yoink>
<asac> cody-somerville: ok you are here
 * cody-somerville nods.
<asac> cody-somerville: i havent used nm 0.6 for a while. but connections that dont require secrets should work before login if you dont have anything in interfaces
<asac> cody-somerville: if that doesnt work, take the NM 0.7 from ~network-manager PPA
<asac> (which is much cooler anyway)
<cody-somerville> hehe
<cody-somerville> 0.7 won't beak my vpn stuff will it? :-]
<asac> cody-somerville: which kind of vpn?
<cody-somerville> OpenVPN
<asac> i got mixed feedback on openvpn
 * cody-somerville kinda needs it to connect to the Lexington office.
<asac> cody-somerville: you could try ;) ... just take care that you have the upgraded packages still in apt-cache so you can downgrade
 * cody-somerville nods. :-]
<asac> cody-somerville: ok good to know that lexington has openvpn ;) ... i have to bug them to give me a test account then i guess ;)
<asac> (in case it doesnt work for you of course)
<cody-somerville> asac, Sounds good! :] thanks.
<asac> cody-somerville: let me know
 * cody-somerville nods.
<asac> kees: how do you bring up eth0.3 ... for me just adding your interfaces doesnt work ;)
<kees> asac: you'll need a tagged VLAN, and the vlan tools installed.
<slangasek> mmm, tagged flan
<ogra> heh
<kees> asac: /etc/network/if-pre-up.d/vlan does the parsing and setup
<emgent> hello
<asac> kees: and nothing of this shows up in hal?
<asac> (before or while using?)
<asac> kees: that script is in if-_pre_ ... does that mean its run before a particular interface comes up?
<asac> is that interface a "normal" one?
<hwilde> http://pastebin.com/m57dd15fe
<hwilde> are my permissions supposed to be ?rwsrwsrwt
<hwilde> and ownership some random user 4294967295
<ion_> Filesystem corruption?
<slangasek> that's not random, that's (unsigned int)(int)-1
<slangasek> but it does look like filesystem corruption, or a kernel bug
<hwilde> can I just chown it and um
<hwilde> or fsck time
<slangasek> fsck first
<slangasek> well, depending on what you have, mount read-only and take a full copy of the fs first
<slangasek> then fsck
<hwilde> I have it mounted in a flashcard reader
<hwilde> what's the best way to copy the whole fs
<hwilde> cp -a ?
<hwilde> cp -apR ?
<hwilde> man.. it's just scrolling cp: `/flashcard/etc/readahead/boot' has unknown file type
<hwilde> i'm not sure this backup is going to be worth much :)
<hwilde> ok, full copy acquired
<hwilde> or as much as possible
<hwilde> won't umount tho :(
<hwilde> fsck says it's clean
<hwilde> won't let me change ownership or permissions tho
<hwilde> ion_, slangasek, hosed ?
<hwilde> Inode 67220 has compression flag set on filesystem without compression support.  Clear? yes
<hwilde> Inode 67218 has INDEX_FL flag set but is not a directory.
<hwilde> nasty errors
<hwilde> yay e2fsck
<hwilde> Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 8388608 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 2698259 bytes) in /home/pastebin/lib/pastebin/spamfilter.class.php on line 92
<hwilde> lollll
<hwilde> I guess I can't pastebin the errors for you :)
<hwilde> hey ubuntu pastebin has more memory  http://paste.ubuntu.com/39766/
<ion_> Or perhaps itâs just implemented more sanely. :-)
<kees> asac: hal> correct -- these never show up because the hel enumerator for network devices requires that there is a physical id associated with it (see my reverted patch to hal during hardy when I was trying to get bridge interfaces visible to hal)
<kees> asac: when ifupdown calls "ifup" on the interface named eth0.N, all the stuff in if-pre-up.d/* is called on it, then if-up.d/* etc etc
<kees> asac: that's the way ifupdown is designed to work -- there are handlers for every type of interface in there.
<kees> asac: I don't know what "normal" means :)
<slangasek> hwilde: so in conclusion, fsck thought it was corrupt enough that it removed the three directories in question?
<solj> anyone know where i can get some help with this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xen-meta/+bug/215558
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 215558 in xen-meta "hardy: ubuntu-xen-desktop ist missing xenman and cannot be installed" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<solj> it's been open with no response for months
<dragonlord222> jello somebody there
<cody-somerville> Yes
<dragonlord222> what are you guys doing
<cody-somerville> I'm coding
<dragonlord222> jeah and that is?
#ubuntu-devel 2008-08-23
<calc> 16GB DDR3 dimms, drool :)
<calc> http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/22/16gb-hynix-ddr3-ram-modules-demonstrated-at-idf/
<ion_> Heh
<bryce> calc, almost enough to run open office!!
<calc> lol
<calc> a few 16GB dimms and a large SSD, with a 8 core cpu, and i could build OOo in under 1hr :)
<Nafallo> dual octacore
<calc> Nafallo: yea that would be nice :)
<calc> aiui the intel chips for 2011(?) should have 8 core
<calc> nehalem will have up to 6 core but not on desktops aiui
<slangasek> you know, when I lived in Iowa I loved Intel's naming scheme
<slangasek> now I live in Oregon and I hate it, because I keep thinking people are talking about local stuff, not chips
<calc> yea the Core 2 Duo was named after my hometown in Texas
<cathyal> is there a channel for storage discussion
<cathyal> doubts
<slangasek> bigon: in bug #255307, Cody left a conditional at the end of his SRU ack... :)  do you agree to his terms, or do I need to check with him later to confirm whether he was joking? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255307 in pymsn "Can't connect to msn accounts" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255307
<wgrant> It's specified as part of the SRU process.
<wgrant> One cannot not agree to it.
<bigon> slangasek: yeah I will keep a look a this package, but It cannot be worst, changes to the msn server completely broke pymsn
<albertito> hi! the sauerbraten package is broken (aptitude says so, it seems a dumb dependency issue)
<albertito> I was about to write a bug for it, but I thought I should ask on irc first, just in case
<albertito> is this the right channel?
<pwnguin> is there anything left of an apparmor upstream?
<saivann> Hi, I'd like to ask ubuntu developers to consider the removal of the compiz blacklist on ati driver. This could be discussed as according to compiz official blacklist and launchpad users comments, a few graphic cards really have problems.
<saivann> I also suggest this since there is not proprietary driver for ATI so far in intrepid (at least for the machines that I tested), so that means that a high proportion of computers are currently not able to use compiz without a tweak
<saivann> Removing the blacklist on ati driver would also help to identify which graphic cards are really problematic.
<saivann> So I wanted to suggest discussion on this, and if it's not the appropriate place, to ask when and where this can be discussed (if you want it)
<saivann> (or if this is possible)
<saivann> bug 197135
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 197135 in compiz "need to blacklist xpress200m when using ati driver" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197135
<Hobbsee> saivann: if you actually wanted discussion with ubuntu developers on something, you'd do *much* better to actually ask at a time where they're likely to be here.
<Hobbsee> saivann: like, during the european working week, or something.
<emgent> moin
<bazaar> hi. how do i get a newer version of SCons into the ubuntu package repositories? should i post a request (where?) ??
<bazaar> i the hardy repos there's 0.97 and the most recent stable is 1.0
<GyrosGeier> hi
<GyrosGeier> I'm looking for Geir Helland
<devfil> DktrKranz: you are the last uploader of scons package, can you merge the new 1.0.0-1 version from Debian?
<devfil> you are also the Debian maintainer :D
<DktrKranz> really? :)
<devfil> DktrKranz: I haven't seen lol
<bazaar> come again?
<DktrKranz> bazaar, if you wan to merge it, go ahead
<bazaar> don't i need some permissions?
<DktrKranz> I need too, scons is in main :)
<DktrKranz> you need sponsoring, as usual :)
<GyrosGeier> well
<GyrosGeier> if anyone sees Geir Helland, please tell him that his email is bouncing
<Chipzz> bazaar: not going to happen
<Chipzz> bazaar: a release, once shipped, doesn't do arbitrary upgrades of packages "just because a newer version is available"
<bazaar> so the only way to get an update for scons is from their website?
<persia> Chipzz: Right, but we could certainly get the newer version in intrepid, no?
<Chipzz> that would be a really bad idea
<Chipzz> persia: he wanted it in hardy
<Chipzz> or at least I got that impression
<bazaar> there is a newer version in hardy (0.98) but not the latest, as the latest is 1.0
<bazaar> sry: meant intrepid.
<Chipzz> !release
<ubottu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<persia> bazaar: Right.  As mentioned before, if you're up for the merge, and submit a debdiff, we'll try to review it.
<persia> Anyway, hardy should only be 0.97.0d20071203-1ubuntu1, not 0.98
<bazaar> so i'll have to stick for example to the MOTU vids on youtube, get that debdiff up, submit it, and w8?
<persia> bazaar: Essentially, yes.
<persia> bazaar: Also, if you need help, you'll want to ask in #ubuntu-motu
<bazaar> ok. cool. if i'll merge scons for hardy, does it go to hardy oder hardy-updates?
<pwnguin> probably hardy-backports?
<persia> bazaar: You want to merge for intrepid.  Once complete, and if accepted, you can request a backport.  Personally, I doubt it will be backported because of the number of build-dependencies.
<sistpoty> bryce: I'm just about to merge libxfont, but I'm not exactly sure about the speedo/type1 thingy. do we want that in? (http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/libx/libxfont/libxfont_1.3.3-1/changelog)
<sistpoty> (it's basically --disable-type1 --disable-speedo passed to configure)
<bryce> sistpoty: is there a bug report or mailing list discussion associated with that change?  sounds curious to me too
 * sistpoty looks
<sistpoty> bryce: none that I can find in dbts/debian-x ml...
<sistpoty> bryce: I guess jcristau might know more
<bryce> sistpoty: yeah, it'd be nice to know the rationale on that; are they being deprecated or is it a space issue, or...?
<sistpoty> bryce: well, apart from the changelog entry, I don't know anything about it... esp. I'm not too sure if this is not causing regressions (cf. thread at http://lists.debian.org/debian-x/2008/08/msg00307.html)
<Nafallo> why are gimp-python in ubuntu-desktop's depends?
<Nafallo> should be recommends if something...
<bryce> sistpoty: I notice jcristau says in that thread, "Because you don't want to use the type1 module anyway." so sounds like it's deprecated
<bryce> I wonder why
<sistpoty> bryce: yeah, so do I
<bryce> sistpoty: anyway, I think you're good to merge in that change.  We can always revert it easily if needed.
<sistpoty> bryce: ok, then I'll upload it (heh, I just filed a bug with my debdiff, since I'm sure I won't be able to make an upload during next week *g*)
 * sistpoty just tests restarting X... brb
<sistpoty> works like a charm for me :)
#ubuntu-devel 2008-08-24
<emgent> hello
<ldp> ummm
<wgrant> I am in complete agreement.
<ldp> so is everyone here, probably
<ldp> ummmmmmm
<ldp> ok, it's getting old
<ldp> but doesn't anyone do anything here?
<wgrant> Not in the past 5 minutes, apparently.
<ldp> apparently would be righ
<ldp> t
<ldp> nothing has hapened here in 1 hour
<Hobbsee> ldp: it's a weekend.
<Hobbsee> what do you expect?
<ldp> oh, yes
<ldp> it's a weekend in america
<ldp> here, it's the first day of the week
<Hobbsee> where's 'here'?
<ldp> Kuwait
<Iulian> Sunday?
<ldp> yes
<ldp> Friday and Saturday are the weekend here
<ldp> weekends*
<wgrant> ldp: I'd say it's a weekend pretty much everywhere. And people generally work better when not chatting on IRC.
<cynicismic> ls
<pwnguin> wgrant: your statement kinda marginalizes other cultures
<pwnguin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workweek
<emgent> evening
<askand> Hi, where was the decision abot choosing F-spot and EOG over gThumb taken? IRC or some mailinlist?
<persia> askand: You asked that before.  As mentioned before, it's not a very active time right now.  The decision was actually reached in a bug, but discussed also in IRC and the mailing list.
<asac> Riddell: do you know the kubuntu contributor who did the firefox qt thing?
<asac> Riddell: would be cool if you could send him into #ubuntu-mozillateam
<asac> apachelogger: ^^ ;)
<asac> apachelogger: would you mind to join our channel? thanks!
<emgent> pollelu: hey :)
<pollelu> hi
<askand> persia: I do not think I asked that before, I asked it in another channel but I asked here first. Thanks for answering btw, im asking because of thread http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=898940
<persia> askand: My apologies then: I got the order misplaced.
<Erik_A> Hi, where's the appropriate place to suggest new software needing to get packaged?
<persia> My memory was that the consensus was that F-Spot did everything gThumb did and more, and there was a lot of demand for F-spot, and the discs are only so big.  If you think eog should be pulled, file a bug, but I suspect it's unlikely as it's considered part of GNOME upstream.
<persia> Erik_A: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<Erik_A> persia, thank you
<frith> can i ask a question about changing the dependencies of a package?
<frith> erm, i mean build dependencies
<persia> frith: Packaging questions are better addressed in #ubuntu-motu
<frith> thanks
<Laney> How does apport/whatever detect a crash? I keep getting false positives from terminator.
<verwilst> hi! i would like to provide backtraces for firefox crashes
<verwilst> i tried installing dbgsym packages for anything i could find in the backtrace with gdb
<verwilst> but it keeps saying no debugging symbols found
<verwilst> any idea?
<verwilst> oh, handy link
<verwilst> btw, ddebs for -security are still broken...
<ScottK> verwilst: #ubuntu-mozillateam might be a better channel.
<verwilst> oh
<verwilst> anyone has got ddebs in his repo?
<verwilst> ( hardy )
<verwilst> it's for a little test ;)
<verwilst> nm!
<martinwm> could one of you nice guys copy a non-developer how you could approach sabdfl for an open an honest word that gets me feedback?
<martinwm> cause i have seen all his talks from the last years at debian events. and if he would be honest about his hype for colaboration, then i think he would never hire a socially retarded asshole like Steve Langasek. cause the price of having such a tech genious in a group of people is too high
<martinwm> colaboration of a team would replace such a person pretty well
 * slangasek chuckles
<verwilst> ouch :)
<martinwm> and i would love to have on tape how Mark justifies having such a moron aboard :)
<martinwm> slangasek: takes you long today to suck the cock of ircops so i fall from the network
<martinwm> whats wrong Mr. Narciss?
<ajmitch> slangasek: looks like you've got another fan :)
<Nafallo> don't feed the troll :-)
<martinwm> ajmitch: when you look at the world population, the number of people is pretty small of love the tech genious so much that they tolerate narcissism of that kind
<martinwm> s/small of/small who/
<martinwm> nalioth: high darling. you come in pink to rescue cock smoker slangasek?
<slangasek> well, yes, he /should/ know better...
<ajmitch> only mildly entertaining at that
<slangasek> ajmitch: same fan as usual, as it happens
<slangasek> nalioth: is Patrick Frank no longer banned from the network?
<nalioth> slangasek: i can't answer that
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> is there someone who can?
<nalioth> no
<nalioth> we don't discuss k-lines
<nxvl> slangasek: what did you do to that guy to be so angry with you?
<slangasek> nalioth: well, I'd like to know whether it's appropriate to inform freenode staff when I see him around, or if it should be dealt with by channel ops
<slangasek> nxvl: I kicked him from some channels a few times for being abusive
<nalioth> slangasek: the channel ops can handle their channels
<nxvl> slangasek: just that?
<slangasek> nxvl: he also doesn't like it that I see through his ban evasion attempts
<nxvl> slangasek: so in summary he's mad because you were smarter?
<Nafallo> :-)
<slangasek> nxvl: well, also I said a few choice things to him while in the process of distracting him from the channels until I could reach a network op
<slangasek> he seems to have taken some of them personally
<nalioth> nrpil: i suspect these folks can give you a name to google for that will explain some things
<nxvl> slangasek: yes, i can tell
<pwnguin> its critically important that those who wield social exclusion powers appear impartial
<slangasek> pwnguin: ehm, it doesn't make a difference to him.
<slangasek> he believes he has a greater social calling to engage in ban evasion of any form needed to get his message out
<spm> pwnguin: to add to slangasek; there are those who will always see partiality no matter how little this is or isn't. jm2c.
<pwnguin> sure
<pwnguin> But I've noticed several people who appear to carry personal grudges on both sides of this =(
<pwnguin> well
<pwnguin> "this" not being someone specific
<pwnguin> maintaining behavior beyond reproach will at least lessen public sympathy
<nxvl> yep as the guy who posted in planet ubuntu this week agains canonical for not letting he use ubuntu's name
<nxvl> or a derivative of it
<nxvl> pwnguin: there is always people who think they own the truth
<wgrant> But his arguments are infallible!
<wgrant> "You're wrong, I'm right."
<pwnguin> this feels like an argument
<nxvl> like the guy who insult me 2 or 3 days ago in -server because i didn't understand why he wanted to have a graphical environmet on his server
<nxvl> the funniest thing was that he was expecting help from me after calling me a noob
 * slangasek nudges the conversation in a more on-topic direction.  So, how about all that PAM breakage this week? :-)
<nxvl> slangasek: it's broken?
<slangasek> nxvl: you tell me ;)
<nxvl> i don't run intrepid
<pwnguin> psh
<nxvl> other than in a VM
<nxvl> and use it only for development and testing
<pwnguin> there was a strange debconf question
<nxvl> i will upgrade to intrepid next week
<nxvl> or 2 weeks from now on
<nxvl> upgrading before FF is a nightmare
<pwnguin> it nuked my thinkfinger stuff, but i need to try out fprint anyways
<slangasek> pwnguin: strange, like it was confusing and should be revised?
<nxvl> slangasek: btw, what is exactly the work of the release team?
<pwnguin> slangasek: well, i had a modified config, it asked if i wanted to change that
<pwnguin> ive got debconf set to a lower than usual priority
<pwnguin> ie not default
<slangasek> nxvl: broadly, "keep things on track"
<nxvl> slangasek: as in?
<slangasek> pwnguin: well, if you have a modified config, you'll see the question even at default priority
<nxvl> i have the feeling that it involves a lot of QA work
<slangasek> nxvl: yes
<pwnguin> slangasek: im just wondering what changed
<nxvl> slangasek: so you work really close to the QA team
<nxvl> or it's a different QA work?
<slangasek> keeping a handle on ISO testing so we know when milestones are ready, escalating bugs when they need to be to get them fixed, tracking bug nominations and triaging (in the "decide what should be given priority" sense)
<slangasek> nxvl: there is definitely work with the QA team, yes, though for the most part we work in parallel (which spares having either group block the other)
<slangasek> there's also archive QAing, to make sure packages are all installable and up-to-date
<slangasek> pwnguin: the pam-config-framework spec
<slangasek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PAMConfigFrameworkSpec
<nxvl> so, it's something like take a cord and start hitting the developers to go in the right direction as quick as possible
<nxvl> :P
<pwnguin> slangasek: well, if it works, it seems like a good idea :-)
<slangasek> nxvl: I find that whippings are not the most effective means of motivating developers; otherwise, sure ;)
<pwnguin> slangasek: the spec demands a copy of local modifciations be preserved. where might that be?
<slangasek> pwnguin: /etc/pam.d/common-*.pam-old; however, I have one bug in that area which will have clobbered the mods in certain cases if you've already upgraded
<slangasek> (sorry :/)
<pwnguin> ok
<pwnguin> its easy
<pwnguin> dont worry
<slangasek> the fix for that will be uploaded tomorrow, right after I finish writing the missing manpage
<nxvl> slangasek: heh, yeah, but it;s funnier said that way
<nxvl> :P
<pwnguin> i was just wondering what all changed but i need to mess with fprint anyways
<slangasek> it would be ideal to have the fingerprinting modules integrated with this for intrepid too, then you can get your config back automagically :)
<slangasek> ok, I'm off to work on laying a floor; say hi to Paddy for me when he comes back
#ubuntu-devel 2009-08-17
<VilasBoas> Hy does anyone know how to enable wireless on a Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2100 Network Driver, 1.1.0 ??
<TheMuso> VilasBoas: If you are using Ubuntu, it should just work. What version of Ubuntu are you using?
<VilasBoas> I?m using  ubuntu 9.04 i386
<VilasBoas> this is the resolte of my lspci http://paste.ubuntu.com/254282/
<ccheney> how do i enable timestamps in empathy?
 * ccheney wonders if there is no way as empathy is a real gnome app unlike pidgin
 * ccheney thinks he will probably be running kubuntu by 10.04 if the continued removal of features keeps up :-\
<ScottK> ccheney: ;-)
<ScottK> ccheney: Speaking of which, are we getting openoffice-kde back anytime soon?
<ccheney> ScottK: yea maybe tomorrow (i hope)
<ccheney> ScottK: its in OOo 3.1.1
<ScottK> Cool.
<ccheney> i think i have a working build done now, ran into a few issues on friday which seem to be fixed now
<ccheney> well other than empathy being useless so far karmic is looking nice, i had to switch back to jaunty for a while, just upgraded again today
<ccheney> for me accurate timestamps (per message) are almost as important as the messages themselves, so with empathy having what appears to only be a timestamp for when the window opens it doesn't look particularly useful
<ScottK> ccheney: I have to the second timestamps in Quassel (currently the default Kubuntu IRC client).
<ccheney> ScottK: yea, and pidgin does that also :-)
 * ccheney has a current kubuntu iso, will have to test it out in a vm
<TheMuso> ccheney: The timestamp could be theme specific.
<ccheney> TheMuso: hmm, having timestamps in empathy is a 'theme' option?
<TheMuso> ccheney: Empathy supports different chat themes.
<TheMuso> SO a theme may or may not have timestamps, so far as I understand things.
<TheMuso> but it seems themes don't yet have preferences.
<TheMuso> The classic theme does have timestamps.
<TheMuso> although they are displayed relative to each other.
<TheMuso> So the date is only displayed if you continue a conversation on a different day, otherwise the time gets shown, and only if the minute has changed.
<wgrant> I think it only shows timestamps if there have been a few minutes since the last message.
<wgrant> But it's a bit hard to tell.
<maco> wait what? relative? like it says "5 seconds later..."?
<wgrant> Not for me.
<ojwb> I'm using the classic theme for jaunty's empathy
<ojwb> at least with jabber, I get a centred grey "- 15:40 -" or similar before each "burst" of chatter
<ojwb> so if both people say something soon after the other it doesn't put in a new timestamp, or something like that
<ojwb> AFAIK, I've never configured anything to do with it
<wgrant> That's the default.
<wgrant> Which is complainable about.
<wgrant> I'd like at least an easy option.
<ojwb> yeah, I was just trying to clarify as people seemed to be misunderstanding each other a bit
<maco> ive never used it (well, i tried once, noticed a lack of a feature i like,and stopped) so i didnt understand "displayed relative"
<ccheney> hmm i backed up my evolution mail before reinstalling but evolution refuses to restore from it claiming its bad archive, i can untar it just fine though
<ccheney> i guess i am really glad that i use imap or it would be a big pita to fix
<ccheney> so its only a small pita to fix instead
 * ccheney thinks maybe this is evolution's way of telling me to stop using it and switch to mutt or thunderbird
<TheMuso> c
<lifeless> d
<dholbach> good morning
<maco> hello :)
<ojwb> mvo: if you want to give that xapian-core patch some testing in karmic, it'd be good to do it soon as feature freeze isn't far off...
<ojwb> or we can decide it's fine, or that we don't want to risk it
<ojwb> it's been on trunk for ages, but needed quite a few adjustments to apply
<mvo> ojwb: I add it now and upload a new version. sorry for the delay, I was on a vacation for some days
 * ojwb guessed!
<lifeless> mvo: hi
<mvo> hi lifeless
<lifeless> https://edge.launchpad.net/conflictchecker is now team owned, and you're an admin
<mvo> cool, thanks lifeless
<lifeless> n
<lifeless> np
<lifeless> shoulda done that a while back
 * mvo nods
<siretart`> mvo: around?
<mvo> siretart`: yes, but I have not yet had a chance to read your mail yet (just returned from vac)
<siretart`> mvo: ah, in that case, welcome back! :-)
<rtg> urk! nautilus has gone crazy, creating and destroying hundreds of copies. anyone else having this problem?
<ogra> copies of what ?
 * ogra has no issues here 
<rtg> ogra, copies of nautilus.
<ogra> fun, seb is on vacation for two weeks :P
 * ogra didnt upgrade today yet ... 
<ogra> let me try
<rtg> ogra, I think I'll just run a dist-upgrade and then restart.
<ogra> i hope you mean you run update-manager instead of doing a dist-upgrade ;)
<rtg> ogra, sudo apt-get -u dist-upgrade
<ogra> use update-manager instead
<ogra> it has hooks for special cases you might need under some circumstances ... to clean up old cruft etc
<rtg> ogra, within a development release ? never! it always messes up.
<StevenK> Then file a bug
<ogra> right
<rtg> nag, nag, nag
<StevenK> Yup
<rtg> hah! whatever gnome library got updated killed the nautilus D-bus wars
<ogra> :)
<idlogin> Requested 'gtk+-2.0 >= 2.17.3' but version of GTK+ is 2.16.1
<idlogin> Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
<idlogin> installed software in a non-standard prefix.
<idlogin> Alternatively, you may set the environment variables CHEESE_CFLAGS
<idlogin> and CHEESE_LIBS to avoid the need to call pkg-config.
<idlogin> See the pkg-config man page for more details.
<idlogin> i get the above error. ubuntu 9.04 has only got libgtk2.0-dev 2.16.x but this program cheese i'm trying to compile say's it needs 2.17.3
<idlogin> any ideas?
<SeaOrifice> idlogin: try reinstalling or check up apt.alturl.com if u are an advanced user
<Laney> props to whoever's on the queue
 * Laney fist bumps you
<directhex> terrorist fist jab! :o
<james_w> zero component mismatches? You can't be serious! :-)
<idlogin> SeaOrifice: Thanks. trying to reinstall still give libgtk2.0-dev-2.16.1 which is what i get when i search apt.alturl.com
<idlogin> i need something => 2.17.3. is there a way i can build that myself from sources?
<mathiaz> james_w: slangasek: could you promote mysql-5.1 to main?
<mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/408333
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 408333 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 "MIR for mysql 5.1" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<james_w> mathiaz: what will depend on it?
<mathiaz> james_w: you mean which new packages would be pulled in from universe?
<mathiaz> james_w: AFAICT none
<james_w> no
<james_w> what will keep it in main?
<james_w> seeds?
<mathiaz> james_w: yes - mysql-5.1 builds mysql-server now
<mathiaz> james_w: which is seeded IIRC
<james_w> ok
<mathiaz> james_w: mysql-server is in the server-ship seed
<james_w> mathiaz: do you need things demoted at the same time?
<mathiaz> james_w: mysql-dfsg-5.0
<james_w> and all the -5.0 bits?
<mathiaz> james_w: yes
<mathiaz> james_w: libmysqclient15off is probably still required by some packages in main
<james_w> ok
<mathiaz> james_w: they'll have to be rebuild against 5.1
<james_w> you want all binaries from the 5.1 package promoted?
<mathiaz> james_w: all except libmysqld-{dev,pic}
<mathiaz> james_w: all the other packages were already part of main for mysql-5.0
<mathiaz> james_w: the libmysqld-* are new packages that weren't in 5.0
<james_w> mathiaz: done
<mathiaz> james_w: \o/ - thank you!
<james_w> please check in an hour or so that things look as you expect
<kirkland> ogra: ping
<james_w> I demoted 15off as well, so transitioning those packages would be appreciated
<dholbach> can somebody moderate my u-d-a@ mail?
<ogra> kirkland, hey
<kirkland> ogra: hiya, i didn't see any uploads to qemu-kvm, just checking
<ogra> kirkland, i did about 5 yesterday :)
<kirkland> ogra: oh :-)  /me checks again
<ogra> sorry that it took so long but we had some disasters on armel
<kirkland> ogra: okey doke, no worries
<ogra> should be all fine now
<kirkland> ogra: cool, i'll play with those
<kirkland> ogra: sorry, my comment was about 24 hours stale :-)
<kirkland> ogra: i checked yesterday morning, and hadn't seen anything
<ogra> i'm doing a full copy of the source tree now at buuld time for the static stuff that will make sure we'll never interfere
<ogra> *build
<kirkland> ogra: cool
 * ogra is just researching why there are so many qemus fixes in the suse src rpm that never went upstream
<ogra> especially one that makes mono work on arm ... tsk
<dholbach> can somebody moderate my u-d-a@ mail?
<Laibsch> bryce: in view of bug 363238, would it be possible to update xorg-xserver-video-ati past http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-ati/commit/?id=f564460e94c9d0f1cf3ff4b8535481b2b8b4e9c1 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 363238 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "very poor Xorg performance on various older graphics HW - XAA solves this" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/363238
<Laibsch> or cherry-pick?
<Laibsch> The current Jaunty driver still has this fairly severe problem.
<bryce> Laibsch, yep, is that the commit needed?
<Laibsch> I think so
<Laibsch> Or I should say, I'm quite certain
<Laibsch> It's Rolf
<Laibsch> I've been testing and packaging bugfixed packages
<Laibsch> I think it's fairly well-tested
<bryce> patch looks sane, yeah think we can include it
<hyperair> hmm new mesa in xorg-edgers eh..
<bryce> Laibsch, I'm hesitant to move our git snapshot up newer since then it moves us into kms territory, which is still pretty buggy
<bryce> but looks like this can be merged independent of that
<Laibsch> cool
<lamont> Keybuk: thoughts on bug 540575?
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 540575 could not be found
<superm1> Keybuk, are you planning on pulling in udev 146 soonish?
<robbiew> lamont: FYI - Keybuk is on holiday.
<robbiew> superm1: ^
<superm1> Then i guess that's a "no" :)
<robbiew> superm1: he's lurking around though...so things may "magically" happen ;)
<NCommander> ScottK, can you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/411849
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 411849 in hardy-backports "Please backport security fix for USN-812-1 in subversion 1.5" [Undecided,New]
<zul> Caesar: ping i have a couple of puppet questions for you
<Ampelbein> hi there. the NBS list was not updated for some days now, is this a known issue? (http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/)
<james_w> Ampelbein: heh, how did I miss that earlier?
<Ampelbein> james_w: how would i know? ;-) so I guess it was not a known issue...
<james_w> not to me at least
<james_w> Ampelbein: should be updating now, yay for silent failures. Thanks for noticing
<jdstrand> kirkland: hey, is what I am seeing in this build from my ppa: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30425319/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.libvirt_0.7.0-1ubuntu2~jdstrand1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz the same as bug #399459?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 399459 in open-iscsi "open-iscsi in hardy fails to install in pbuilder as a build-dependency" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/399459
<jdstrand> kirkland: actually, I can answer that... it is not
<jdstrand> kirkland: however, is what I am seeing in my ppa known?
<kirkland> jdstrand: i've never seen that
<kirkland> jdstrand: actually, I really think open-iscsi should have a -dev package
<kirkland> jdstrand: that doesn't require starting that (crappy) init script
<kirkland> jdstrand: slangasek and co. have worked on iscsi lately, i wonder if they've added something that depends on /lib/init/rw/sendsigs.omit.d perhaps?
<slangasek> not I
<kirkland> slangasek: hey, thanks.
<jdstrand> mathiaz: have you seen this? ^
<mathiaz> jdstrand: yes
<mathiaz> jdstrand: /lib/init/rw/sendsigs.omit.d is not created in the build chroots IIRC
<mathiaz> jdstrand: which is the reason why open-iscsi is failing to install
<jdstrand> mathiaz: yes, that was my conclusion as well. is there a bug? is it being worked on on? what normally creates /lib/init/rw/sendsigs.omit.d ?
<jdstrand> mathiaz: rsyslog removes things from there in its postrm it looks like
<jdstrand> mathiaz: so a syslog to rsyslog transition issue, possibly?
<mathiaz> jdstrand: may be
<mathiaz> jdstrand: openiscsi would only fail if /lib/init/rw/sendsigs.omit.d/ the directory doesn't exist
<jdstrand> mathiaz: yes
<jdstrand> (which is what happens)
<mathiaz> jdstrand: and the issue is only in chroot
<jdstrand> mathiaz: are you contending it is a build issue?
<jdstrand> buildd
<mathiaz> jdstrand: not only a buildd - pbuilder has the same problem
<mathiaz> jdstrand: I'd say it's an issue if you try to install open-iscsi in a chroot
<jdstrand> mathiaz: so this causes an FTBFS for anything that depends on open-iscsi
<mathiaz> jdstrand: yop - libvirt being such an example
<EtienneG> jdstrand, hey there
<EtienneG> I am late to the discussion, and missed the beginning of it
<EtienneG> jdstrand, basically, a package (libvirtd, I think) have a build-dep on open-iscsi
<jdstrand> EtienneG: yes
<EtienneG> jdstrand, building the karmic package of that package on jaunty fail
<jdstrand> EtienneG, mathiaz: I am simply going to adjust the open-iscsi initscript to create the symlink only if /lib/init/rw/sendsigs.omit.d exists
<EtienneG> jdstrand, basically, open-iscsi is a build-dep because the Makefile of that package check for the presence of the iscsiadm executable
<jdstrand> EtienneG: I could just do '|| true' as well
<EtienneG> jdstrand, hold on, phone rings
 * jdstrand opts for '|| true'
<mathiaz> jdstrand: right - that seems the best workaround
<EtienneG> mathiaz, jdstrand: if you ask, the Makefile that check for the presence of a specific executable without ever using it in the build is wrong
<jdstrand> well, the initscript is wrong too
<EtienneG> so technically, you could also remove the build-dep on open-iscsi by patching the Makefile
<EtienneG> jdstrand, they are both wrong
 * jdstrand nods
<EtienneG> anyway, just saying
<EtienneG> jdstrand, my recollection of that bug is fuzzy, but it struck me as being really hare-brained to check for the iscsiadm (if failing if it was not there) yet never to use it in the build
 * jdstrand nods
<EtienneG> ugh, I make way too many typos
<EtienneG> anyway, I think there should not be a build-dep on open-iscsi in that case
<Ampelbein> james_w: sorry to bother again, but the nbs list seems not to update. or does it just take long time?
<slangasek> Ampelbein: the NBS list is only updated 4x a day IIRC, and it operates on the archive so it takes at least an hour before any changes to the archive are visible in the input to that script
<james_w> Ampelbein: it's still running
<james_w> almost done by the look of it
<james_w> Ampelbein: there you go
<Ampelbein> james_w, slangasek: thank you very much.
<niktaris> hi, while trying UNR with qemu I seem to go very very slow. Anyone know how to fix this?
<soren> niktaris: Simple. Don't use QEmu  :)
<niktaris> soren, :_D and use what?
<seb128> jdstrand, hey, could you watch evince bugs for a while? there is new breakages due to your changes
<jdstrand> seb128: I am a bug subscriber, but I haven't seen anything lately... :/
<jdstrand> seb128: but I'll look at them
<seb128> jdstrand, sort by most recents, the newer ones are due to your changes
<seb128> thanks
<ScottK> NCommander: I'm attempting to be on vacation this week.
<Ampelbein> any core-dev available to review/sponsor 415024
<soren> niktaris: kvm, I suppose.
<Ampelbein> (damn enter-key on damn netbook) any core-dev available to review/sponsor bug 415024 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415024 in libtheora "Packages linking libtheora will FTBFS due to reference of non-existing libogg.la" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415024
<james_w> Ampelbein: on it
<Ampelbein> james_w: an example of a FTBFS is the sparc and armel build of linphone: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30389979/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-sparc.linphone_3.1.2-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<gilligan_> anyone here working on networkmanager ? I'm trying to figure out why some usb gsm modem is not working on karmic anymore -- networkmanager stops at Stage4 (IPv4 config) and never makes it to Stage5 (IPv4 config commit) ..   related bug report : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/413989
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 413989 in ubuntu "karmic: huawei gsm modem not working anymore" [Undecided,New]
<Ampelbein> james_w: thanks for sponsoring
<james_w> np
<mathiaz> james_w: it seems that the apr-util package branch is not up-to-date with version that is in the archive
<james_w> mathiaz: that's one that failed
<james_w> it's a bit of a stupid error on my part, but quite a bit of code to fix it
<james_w> or I could just upgrade the branches. It doesn't fix the general issue, but would unblock you
<mathiaz> james_w: that's ok - I'm not block by thius
<james_w> ok
<james_w> I'll work out how to fix it generally :-)
<jdstrand> jjohansen: hi! is there a way to specify in a profile to transition to another profile if it exists, otherwise go unconfined? eg, I would like firefox to Px evince if the profile exists. otherwise Ux it.
<jjohansen> jdstrand: sigh, not at the moment.
<jdstrand> jjohansen: doe that mean it is planned?
<jdstrand> does
<jdstrand> (not for karmic, but long term)
<jjohansen> jdstrand: jdstrand: internally it is allowed, but there are limits on the current interface
<jdstrand> jjohansen: ok
<jdstrand> jjohansen: thanks
<jjohansen> jdstrand: basically, the current bit layout doesn't allow, if I can come up with a way to stuff it in there are remain compatible it would take 5 min to add
<jdstrand> jjohansen: it isn't a big deal atm-- the firefox profile will be opt-in for the foreseeable future
<jjohansen> jdstrand: hold on it may actually be there by a happy quirk
#ubuntu-devel 2009-08-18
<slangasek> mdke: the ubuntu-docs intrepid-proposed upload includes changes to a number of files under libs/, and to scripts/fix-urls.sh and the serverguide, that aren't documented in the changelog; where do these come from?
<kees> slangasek: hopefully I've now addressed your concerns in bug 275493
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275493 in glibc "stack protector guard value uses a static sentinel" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275493
<slangasek> kees: yep, thanks
<kees> except I forgot to mark "evidence" to [3]
<x1250> Hi, I'm trying to compile cinelerra, but I get a error about `/usr/lib/libogg.la' not being present or not being a valid libtool archive. Its not present, but libogg-dev is installed. I searched for it using apt-file and it was in the package, but then I updated my apt-file db, and bum! dissapeared. I tried creating a link with sudo ln -s /usr/lib/libogg.a /usr/lib/libogg.la, but make complains:
<x1250> libtool: link: `/usr/lib/libogg.la' is not a valid libtool archive
<x1250> so, how to fix this?
<directhex> x1250, libtool files are generally to be avoided, as they're a cause of problems
<x1250> someone had reported this and made a debdiff available: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libogg/+bug/414362
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 414362 in libogg "/usr/lib/libogg.la missing in libogg-dev 1.1.4~dfsg-1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<directhex> cinelera is broken if it needs libtool archives
 * james_w Wont-Fixed the bug
<james_w> the libogg.la file was removed on purpose
<james_w> cinelera should use an alternative method for linking with libogg
<x1250> okay, I'll try to report this to the mantainers, if there is one... maybe lumiera is getting all the love now.
<slangasek> james_w: if libtool is looking for it, it's because some other lib on the system which does have a .la file still references it and needs a rebuild
<slangasek> (I grumbled at ron about the manner in which he got rid of libogg.la)
<james_w> I uploaded the fix for one of them today
<ion> Judging from past experience, cinelerra is broken, period. :-P
<ScottK> Just because it's broken, doesn't mean it's the only thing that's broken.
<slangasek> james_w: which one did you fix?  I've grabbed a list of the remaining revdeps referencing libogg.la
<slangasek> according to my mirror currently
 * slangasek batch-rebuilds the revdeps
 * slangasek gets an itch to make dch --bin-nmu DTRT on Ubuntu
<slangasek> oh, there's already a -R, alrighty then
<MsMaco> *snort* people who dont know that "100 plus 3 percent" is different than "100 plus 3 percent of 100" complained til gcalctool started calculating 100+3%=103. now someone in #ubuntu is looking for a calculator that does it correctly and having to downgrade
<lifeless> 3% of what
<MsMaco> exactly
<MsMaco> 3% on its own is 0.03
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> thats 3% of 1
<slangasek> 3 per cent is 3 / 100
<Pici> .03 * n will give you 3% of n
<slangasek> but I don't see why anyone would ever type 100+3%
<ojwb> it seems almost a "type mismatch" to me
<MsMaco> specifying of what makes sense though
<MsMaco> if you wanted to know how much eggs for $2 and $5 cereal thatsmarked at 25% off is... 2+75%*5
<ojwb> sure, but there you've added units - $2 + 75%*$5 makes sense - $2 + 75% isn't in consistent units
<MsMaco> ojwb: calculators tend not to have units
<ojwb> um, sure
<ojwb> that's kind of what I was getting at
<emma> what kind of unit?
<ojwb> there are usually implicit units
<ojwb> any sort i guess
<ojwb> units of measurement
<EagleScreen> should debootstrap 1.0.15 from Debian unstable know about karmic release?
<TheMuso> EagleScreen: I believe it does.
<EagleScreen> it does not seem
<EagleScreen> http://paste.ubuntu.com/254880/
<Caesar> zul: pong
<EagleScreen> i have this problem with pbuilder for any Ubuntu realease: http://paste.ubuntu.com/254892/
<ipatrol> Hello?
<EagleScreen> hello
<ipatrol> I'm a Python enthusiast
<ipatrol> How can I contribute?
<EagleScreen> sure, Ubuntu develop many applications in python
<ipatrol> Where can I start?
<EagleScreen> ipatrol: go to #ubuntu-motu
<dholbach> good morning
<siretart`> morning folks
<siretart`> mvo: I've redirected the question to the ubuntu-devel list. this issue is driving me mad...
<mdke> slangasek: I'll check, sorry about that
<YokoZar> Anyone else unable to use gpg-agent for signing packages in Karmic?  It's been broken for me for a while but I'm wondering if I just configured it wrong
<mdke> slangasek: in the meantime perhaps you can reject the upload and I'll reupload with a better changelog
<nh2> hi, I want to code some options for the touchpad settings
<nh2> the touchpad settings tab sets the options in gconf, but how do the drivers get that information?
<nh2> tseliot: are you here?
<dholbach> gilir: do you think you can use the -v<version> option for debuild when you're uploading merges?
<tseliot> nh2: yep
<nh2> tseliot: I'd like to try to create two options for that right and middle click touchpad corner tapping thing, but I have no idea how the driver gets that information after the GUI has written it to gconf
<tseliot> nh2: I'm working on a UI for touchpads. That will allow you to modify such details
<gilir> dholbach: ok
 * dholbach hugs gilir
<nh2> tseliot: great! the gnome settings are indeed very plain. but will that be ready before the karmic release?
<dholbach> gilir: always interesting to know what was merged and what happened in Debian :)
<tseliot> nh2: I don't think so but I'll make it available in a PPA
<gilir> dholbach: sure, but I didn't know this command :)
<dholbach> ah ok, no worries :)
<nh2> tseliot: OK. but it's still interesting for me how it is done now with that touchpad tab. eg. when I click "disable touchpad while typing", a value is written into gconf. but where is the place that value is read and submitted to the driver?
<tseliot> nh2: that's in the gnome-settings-daemon
<nh2> tseliot: ah ok, thanks, I'll have a look at it
<tseliot> np
<tseliot> mpt: ping
<tseliot> mpt: I'd like to discuss bug 386017 with you
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386017 in hundredpapercuts "Brushing right-edge of trackpad causes clipboard to paste text" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386017
<StevenK> james_w: You know that platform.karmic's desktop-common seed lists ttf-bitstream-vera, which you removed yesterday?
<james_w> oops
<james_w> ttf-dejavu is the replacement apparently
<james_w> it looks like removing it was the wrong thing to do though, there is no transitional package, should I re-instate it?
<tseliot> StevenK: would my upload of nvidia be rejected if I used version 185.18.31-0ubuntu1? Or should I bump the version and/or the revision?
<mpt> tseliot, reading it now
<tseliot> thanks
<StevenK> james_w: If ttf-dejavu is the replacement, then I have a diff to the seeds, which I'll commit, and re-spin {ubuntu,unr}-meta.
<StevenK> tseliot: And what is the source package name?
<tseliot> StevenK: nvidia-graphics-drivers-180
<StevenK> tseliot: Okay, and have the binary package names changed?
<james_w> StevenK: not sure if it would be ttf-dejavu or ttf-dejavu-core actually
<tseliot> StevenK: yep
<james_w> e.g. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=528152
<ubottu> Debian bug 528152 in tulip "tulip: declares relation to ttf-bitstream-vera" [Important,Open]
<mpt> tseliot, so there needs to be a setting for touchpads that have two or fewer buttons, determining whether middle-click is (a) left+right click together (if they have two buttons), (b) top right click, (c) bottom right click, (d) bottom left click, (e) top left click, or (f) nothing?
<mpt> tseliot, while I remember, I'll e-mail you now the design stuff I've done so far for the touchpad settings -- sorry it's taken so long, it's not on my official to-do list
<tseliot> mpt: first of all, thanks a lot for your work :-)
<tseliot> mpt: yes, exactly
<Ng> mpt: does the design include a "disable this touchpad" type setting? that disappeared so far in karmic
<mpt> Ng, no, I understood that had been removed on purpose
<Ng> mpt: I'm sure it was, and I'm sure I subjectively disagree with it because I hate my touchpad ;)
<mpt> It would be nice to have an "Ignore touchpad whenever a mouse is connected" checkbox
<Nafallo> Ng: your BIOS doesn't let you disable it?
<mpt> but tseliot told me it's difficult for Ubuntu to tell when a mouse is connected (more difficult than for Mac OS X, apparently)
<Ng> Nafallo: that hurts guest users, they get all confused when the big touchy mouse thing doesn't work
<Ng> mpt: I'm only mildly familiar with xinput stuff, so I'm prepared to believe that, but I think a well designed preferences UI could mitigate the dire situation where someone disables their ownly mouse-like input
<tseliot> mpt: the problem is that I can detect when an input device is connected. The input device might be, say, a wacom tablet and not a mouse
<Ng> -w
<tseliot> mpt: but if it's okay to disable the touchpad in that case, then it's not a problem for me to implement that feature
<mpt> tseliot, couldn't you do that by a process of elimination? If it doesn't look like a touchpad, and it doesn't look like a tablet, it's probably a mouse
<mpt> or something like that
<tseliot> mpt: I think I can come up with something
<Ng> afair older thinkpads serve the "nipple" mouse and touchpad via the same ps2 device and disabling the touchpad can disable the buttons of the nipple mouse, so I'd always envisaged a dialog that asks you to click to confirm after you disable a device, with a counter that re-enables it if you fail to click
<Ng> but anyway
<liw> . o O (there is no way to win, unless you control _everything_, which explains Apple)
<tseliot> Ng: do you own a thinkpad with the nipple? It would be nice to see how xinput detects it
<tseliot> liw: heh, we can fix things though ;)
<liw> tseliot, I have one, lots of others do as well, so if you give instructions on what you need, I'm sure you'll get co-operation
<tseliot> liw: perfect, thanks. For starters the output of "xinput list" and of "xinput list-props $THE_NIPPLE_NAME" should be enough
<liw> tseliot, do you need this done under karmic or is jaunty enough?
<Ng> tseliot: I have an X300 in front of me, and an X40 at home, I also work with a lot of other thinkpad users
<tseliot> either karmic or jaunty should be fine
<tseliot> good
<liw> what is $THE_NIPPLE_NAME? (five minutes ago I didn't know xinput exist)
<Ng> tseliot: http://pastebin.com/f49f35640, http://pastebin.com/f22cceb97, although the settings are slightly altered by my having run this script: http://pastebin.com/f7892bca4
<liw> seomthing like this, I guess: TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint
<tseliot> liw: "xinput list --short" will give a list with the names of all your input devices
<liw> tseliot, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/255024/ and http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/255025/ -- that good enough?
<Ng> duh, this is an X301, not a 300
<tseliot> Ng, liw: thanks a lot
<liw> tseliot, and I am using a thinkpad x200s, if that's important
<Ng> tseliot: I'll try to remember to get you similar output from an X40 tonight if you would like?
<tseliot> liw: good to know, thanks
<ogra> Riddell, youre the archive admin of the day ? there is a linux-mvl-dove package in NEW the mobile team would appreciate to get building
<tseliot> Ng: the more, the better ;)
<Ng> :)
<liw> . o O (it'd be sorta cool if there was one command that would make a report that has _all_ that kind of stuff, for easy perusal, stored in a database somewhere)
<liw> . o O (wait, don't we have that?)
<mpt> tseliot, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TouchpadSettings
<tseliot> mpt: as you can see (and I hadn't noticed), in Karmic we have access to the type of input device. Nipples and mice are detected as mice while touchpads are detected as touchpads
<tseliot> liw: I could write that
<liw> what's the PC word for the thinkpad-style non-touchpad device?
<Ng> liw: trackpoint
<Ng> at least that's what ibm/lenovo brand it
<liw> Np, that's the ibm/lenovo name, I think, hmm
<liw> wikipedia redirects to "Pointing stick"
<directhex> nipple
<tseliot> mpt: that looks great :-)
<directhex> i think there's an xcd for this
<directhex> xkcd
<Ng> "pointing stick" is a pretty poor name. which kind of stick doesn't point? ;)
<liw> it doesn't even look like a stick
<tseliot> mpt: the left pane has a (vertical) scrollbar, doesn't it?
<mpt> tseliot, I'm not sure yet whether it will need one
<tseliot> the name "TrackPoint" should be enough for me to filter it out (As it can't be unplugged)
<mpt> tseliot, it depends on the number of categories + the maximum number of subcategories (because only one category would be expanded at a time) vs. the maximum height of a single pane's settings
<ogra> mpt, "pressure of last touch" should be "pressure of last tap" under the "minimum pressure to register a tap"
<mpt> ogra, whether the touch counts as a tap is precisely what you're configuring :-)
<ogra> on the left you configure touching for movement, on the right you configure tapping ... calling it tap on the right seems more consistent
<mpt> though maybe it doesn't make sense to refer to the "last touch" if it's hard to distinguish zero from non-zero touch pressure
<mpt> ogra, yes, the one on the left is for moving the pointer as opposed to clicking
<Riddell> ogra: ok
<tseliot>  mpt: ah, ok. Are you sure I shouldn't start implementing that?
<mpt> The minimum pressure needed to touch for moving is a different setting from the minimum pressure needed to tap for clicking, aiui
<ogra> Riddell, hold back, i think we want someone like cjwatson or slangasek to review it, i just looked at the naming of the headers packages and it doesnt seem right
<mpt> tseliot, if you can get it done for Karmic, you could implement the one labelled "Version 1" on p3
<ogra> Riddell, afaik there are some tools that expect it to be linux-headers-2*
<mpt> tseliot, because it's a clean subset of the rest of the interface
<mpt> (well, nearly clean)
<tseliot> mpt: ok, does the Secondary click include corner tapping (top left, etc.) or did you remove those lines in the draft?
<mpt> tseliot, I was considering not exposing the corner options at all, but I'm not sure about that, and Scott Ritchie's comment in bug 386017 is making me reconsider :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386017 in hundredpapercuts "Brushing right-edge of trackpad causes clipboard to paste text" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386017
<tseliot> mpt: let's experiment a bit then
<mpt> Since it's just adding four(?) more options to a menu that's there anyway and would otherwise have only 2~3 options, I guess it would be worth it
<tseliot> mpt: would it be possible to add middle click below secondary click?
<tseliot> (disabled by default)
<mpt> probably
<tseliot> ok, good
<mpt> and if the touchpad already has more than one button, I guess the secondary click setting should be replaced by a left-handed vs. right-handed setting
<mpt> and similarly if the touchpad has more than two buttons, the middle-click setting needn't appear
<tseliot> how would the left-handed vs. right-handed setting work?
<tseliot> mpt: also, couldn't we let users decide whether to use buttons on corner tapping for right clicks or middle clicks?
<mpt> tseliot, it would determine whether (L) the right button was primary and the left button was secondary, or (R) the left button was primary and the right button was secondary
<mpt> but I see now there's no such option in the man page
<mpt> maybe that's not as useful for touchpads as it is for mice? I have no idea
 * mpt is left-handed but uses right hand for mouse and touchpad
<tseliot> ah, ok. I'm right handed ;)
<mpt> tseliot, I don't understand the difference between that question and what we were talking about 15 minutes earlier
<mpt> so, we could add the corner options to the menus for both secondary and middle click
<mpt> the only tricky design detail of that is how to prevent conflicts
<mjr> could someone clarify if the latest jaunty kernel update contains the recent local root fix (a lot of stuff in the changelog, and the package is not in -security...)?
 * mpt -> lunch
<tseliot> mpt: If I understood correctly, you said that we should hide those settings when the buttons are available
<nh2> tseliot: I haven't understood how the driver gets informed yet. The user makes the settings in the GUI. The GUI sets the gconf registry keys and gconf-daemon is informed. Now gconf-daemon has to inform the driver. But how does gconf-daemon know who to inform?
<tseliot> nh2: the gnome-settings-daemon sets the property through Xinput and save the settings in gconf so that, when a new session starts, it can read the saved settings from gconf and apply them again through Xinput
<nh2> tseliot: but the settings daemon itself doesn't know who to inform, it just gives us the infrastructure, right? so gnome-mouse-properties has to tell the daemon to notify Xinput or how is that done
<nh2> eg. if /desktop/gnome/peripherals/touchpad/disable_while_typing is set to true, the daemon sets that setting without knowing about that path or what to do with it
<tseliot> nh2: the daemon has a function for that which deals with the driver through the Xinput protocol. Actually, in the case of disable_while_typing, it simply calls syndaemon
<nh2> tseliot: ok, I've finally found that function
<mpt> tseliot, correct
<mpt> tseliot, on the assumption that using a dedicated secondary-click button is more convenient than tapping in a corner
<maxb> <tseliot> mpt: If I understood correctly, you said that we should hide those settings when the buttons are available
<maxb> I find it far easier to cornertap than to left+right simultaneously click
<mpt> maxb, right, so that setting would be present if the touchpad has <3 buttons
<maxb> I don't think you should completely hide settings ever. Default them sensibly yes, but don't hide them
<maxb> For instance, I'll cornertap to right click sometimes, because the physical buttons on the early AAOs suck
<maxb> Besides, someone may habituate to using one set of settings across all of their devices
<hyperair> cornertap never seems to work for me =\
<maxb> I've learnt how to do it properly now
<mpt> maxb, obviously I disagree. For example, all the settings for what touchpad buttons should do shouldn't be present if your computer doesn't have any touchpad buttons.
<maxb> ok, fine, if the setting is completely useless, yes
<maxb> But don't hide settings on the _assumption_ the user won't want them (e.g. cornertapping)
<slytherin> if there is a wrong node created fro dvd drive, which package is problematic? udev or devicekit-disks?
<directhex> i officially no longer understand who's in charge of what in device nodey land
<ogra> directhex, the who is easy :) its either pitti or Keybuk :P
<slytherin> ogra: perhaps he meant which package. :-)
<ogra> indeed he did :)
<ogra> i guess its udev though
<ogra> devkit should only operate on top of the nodes
<slytherin> Ok. I just hope my bug gets solved soon. :-)
<ogra> what nodes do you see for your dvd ?
<ogra> my laptop has dvd1 and dvdrw1
<ogra> seems about right
<slytherin> ogra: for dvd I see cdrom3 which is a link to sr1. For CD drive I see cdrom which is link to sr0.
<Keybuk> slytherin: what's the bug?
<ogra> likely that the kernel doesnt set a dvd capability right
<slytherin> Keybuk: bug #414665
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414665 in udev "[karmic] /dev/cdrom3 node created instead of /dev/dvd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414665
<Keybuk> slytherin: attach output of "udevadm info -q all -n sr0"
<tseliot> mpt, maxb: I always use corner tapping even though my touchpad has physical buttons
<slytherin> Keybuk: I am not at home right now. Will do that when I go home.
<mpt> tseliot, why?
<Keybuk> slytherin: you have no /dev/dvd* symlinks at all?
<tseliot> hyperair: maybe because of this bug? http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23102
<slytherin> Keybuk: None. It was surprising for me too.
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 23102 in Input/synaptics "Touchpad vertical edge scrolling area not flush to the right" [Normal,New]
<Keybuk> slytherin: probably not a udev bug then; your drive is likely not identifying itself properly
<tseliot> mpt: I find it quicker to tap as opposed to use another finger (or to move the same finger) to click
<slytherin> Keybuk: I bought it (second hand) from a friend. Let me talk with the original owner.
<Keybuk> slytherin: if those symlinks are missing, it's not exactly earth-ending
<lesshaste> hi all
<slytherin> Keybuk: May be it is causing problem with DVD playback in totem. I am not sure though. I need to check with other players.
<Keybuk> slytherin: totem does not use them
<slytherin> libdvdread seems to be using it, it complains about 'no /dev/dvd device'. But let me get with more information.
<Keybuk> I don't think anyone has a /dev/dvd symlink anymore
<Keybuk> it's probably /dev/dvd481 by now
 * ogra has dvd1
<Laney> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 2009-08-17 11:07 /dev/dvd -> sr0
<mpt> tseliot, but if you're moving to the corner you have to move your finger anyway, right?
<Keybuk> Laney: the "I only installed yesterday" crowd are exempt ;)
<tseliot> mpt: right but the buttons make me move my fingers far below and this interrupts my workflow thus slowing me down. Weird but true (in my case)
<mpt> tseliot, ok
<Laney> Keybuk: I installed several years ago!
<Keybuk> Laney: then given the number of non-backwards compatible changes to the way that persistent symlinks are created, I don't see how you can still have that without a trailing number ;)
<Keybuk> unless you've been manually fixing it
<Laney> no, not at all
<Keybuk> aren't you lucky then ;)
<hyperair> tseliot: no, my circular scrolling corner works
<Laney> well, the drive itself is shagged
<Laney> so it's pretty useless to have it :(
<Keybuk> there should be a symlink for that!
<Keybuk> /dev/kaput -> sr0
<tseliot> hyperair: what happens then? Can you file a bug report about it, please?
<hyperair> tseliot: wait, i just tried and it works intermittently.
<hyperair> tseliot: but i can't trigger it consistently
<jdstrand> kirkland: so my little fix for bug #414986 didn't work. I didn't read the script carefully enough and my testing was in a chroot that didn't expose the bug :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414986 in open-iscsi "open-iscsi causes FTBFS for anything that Build-Depends on it" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414986
<kirkland> jdstrand: yeah, bummer, i saw that
<tseliot> hyperair: ok, it's still worth filing a bug about it though ;)
<jdstrand> kirkland: I put my findings in the bug, but I don't feel comfortable making the change that I think is needed, cause I don't know open-iscsi at all
<hyperair> tseliot: no wait, it seems like i can trigger it consistently now, but there's a lag of ~0.5-0.7s
<hyperair> tseliot: basically i have to tap, and then wait for a response
<kirkland> jdstrand: don't you think we should have an open-iscsi-dev package, that provides the stuff to be built against, but doesn't try to start any targets or anything?
<tseliot> hyperair: does this happen irrespectively of the window you're tapping on? e.g. firefox, the desktop, etc.
<hyperair> tseliot: yes
<jdstrand> kirkland: that could work too-- it would need to provide iscsiadm in the case of libvirt
<tseliot> hyperair: it's a bug then
<hyperair> tseliot: hmm not misconfiguration?
<hyperair> tseliot: is there any synclient setting i could try tweaking?
<jdstrand> kirkland: so -dev might not be the best name for it
<jdstrand> kirkland: maybe -tools?
<kirkland> jdstrand: sure, fair enough
<jdstrand> kirkland: and open-iscsi pulls in open-iscsi-tools?
<kirkland> jdstrand: the key is for it *not* to have an init script
<kirkland> jdstrand: right
<hyperair> tseliot: ah, it seems that turning on FastTaps improves it
<tseliot> hyperair: but doesn't that alter normal (i.e. non-corner) tapping?
<jdstrand> kirkland: is that something you plan to do?
<kirkland> jdstrand: i can do it if you need me to; i had other plans for my day, though :-)
<kirkland> jdstrand: what else needs to be in there besides iscsiadm ?
<jdstrand> I did too... all I want is libvirt to build, I didn't ask to get in the open-iscsi quagmire...
<jdstrand> :)
<kirkland> jdstrand: :-D
<tseliot> hyperair: I meant double tapping
<kirkland> jdstrand: okay, give me what needs to be moved from open-iscsi to open-iscsi-tools
<kirkland> jdstrand: i'll build/test/upload, you can review and accept
<jdstrand> kirkland: I really have no idea. like I said I don't know open-iscsi at all.... I don't know how to test it or use it
<jdstrand> kirkland: well, for the time being I worked around it for my libvirt package by building with --without-storage-iscsi
<jdstrand> kirkland: I think this is ok for my ppa
<kirkland> jdstrand: right; i had to do the same for my hardy backport of libvirt, similar reasons
<jdstrand> kirkland: it appears libvirt will build on an official buildd
<sistpoty|work> jdstrand, kirkland: maybe open-iscsi should simply not fail in the mainter script if the invoke-rc.d fails?
<hyperair> tseliot: yes it does. basically it reacts slower than a button tap, and so it confuses me =\
<hyperair> tseliot: and sometimes, presumably because i didn't tap near enough to the corner, it doesn't respond.
<jdstrand> kirkland: so, perhaps this can be pushed back past FF or at least until we are forced to fix it again (that way you can work on whatever you need to today)
 * sebner waves at sistpoty|work :D
<sistpoty|work> huhu sebner
<hyperair> tseliot: basically i find it very unreliable and not a replacement for the clicking of touchpad buttons
<jdstrand> sistpoty|work: I thought of that too, but wasn't comfortable making the change
<jdstrand> kirkland: what do you think? ^ (of both)
<tseliot> hyperair: I agree but it depends on the touchpad model
<sistpoty|work> (a cleaner approach is always preferrable though than my suggestion ;)
<hyperair> tseliot: perhaps. my touchpad's an alps model
<kirkland> jdstrand: fedora has iscsi-initiator-utils
<hyperair> tseliot: all the fancy multi-finger options fail.
<tseliot> hyperair: I don't own alps touchpads but similar problems can take place with synaptics too
<tseliot> hyperair: that depends on the fact that the touchpad doesn't support multi-touch and emulates it
<tseliot> (badly)
<hyperair> tseliot: another thing about the corner tapping is that without looking, you have to be very familiar with where the corner is, or you'll tap the wrong spot and end up triggering button1 (if you didn't disable it like i did).
<hyperair> tseliot: my corner works nicely with circular scrolling because i actually slide my finger from off the touchpad onto the touchpad where the corner is
<tseliot> hyperair: it's a matter of taste too
<hyperair> tseliot: agreed, and it also depends on how well your touchpad buttons are designed. some are really a pain to press.
 * tseliot nods
<hyperair> tseliot: mine are nice and quiet, and also if you press the centre, you will nicely trigger both buttons.
<jdstrand> kirkland: so you can do it today, we can wait or I can change the initscript to not return error. opinion?
<kirkland> jdstrand: i'm hacking on it now
<gilligan_> could any developer here sponsor/give me some hints on how to work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/413989  ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 413989 in ubuntu "karmic: huawei gsm modem not working anymore" [Undecided,New]
<kirkland> jdstrand: as far as I can tell, it only needs iscsiadm in there, looking at the libvirt code
 * jdstrand feels somewhat guilty about making kirkland feel he had to do it *now*
<kirkland> jdstrand: if i give you an iscsi source package, can you test it in your pbuilder?
<kirkland> jdstrand: :-)  no worries, i walked right into this one....
<jdstrand> kirkland: oh yes, I can test
<kirkland> jdstrand: what's the bug # for the changelog?
<jdstrand> kirkland: afaics, iscsiadm is all that is needed by libvirt. maybe look in iscsi-initiator-utils to see what else they put in there? (at a minimum, it will need to be whatever iscsiadm needs)
<kirkland> jdstrand: okay
<jdstrand> kirkland: 414986
<kirkland> jdstrand: thanks
<kirkland> jdstrand: i'm tweaking it now
<jdstrand> kirkland: it might just be easier to put everything in open-iscsi-tools (or whatever), except the initscript and config files on used by the initscript. anyhoo, I'll let you judge how to best do it since you know more about it than I do :)
<kirkland> jdstrand: hmm, okay, i having trouble with something simple here
<kirkland> jdstrand: i have /sbin/iscsiadm in a new open-iscsi-utils package
<kirkland> jdstrand: how do i exclude it from the open-iscsi package?
 * jdstrand looks at the packaging
<jdstrand> kirkland: so in debian/rules, we have:
<jdstrand> install -m 755 usr/iscsiadm $(CURDIR)/debian/open-iscsi/sbin
<jdstrand> kirkland: that should simply be changed to:
<kirkland> jdstrand: duh!
<jdstrand> install -m 755 usr/iscsiadm $(CURDIR)/debian/open-iscsi-tools/sbin
<kirkland> jdstrand: okay, sorry
<kirkland> jdstrand: sorry, i created an open-iscsi-utils.install file
<jdstrand> ah, yes. well should work too, but you'd have to adjust debian/rules regardless
<kirkland> jdstrand: and was looking for the same,
<kirkland> jdstrand: okay, i'm moving it, and the manpage
<kirkland> jdstrand: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/255112/
<kirkland> jdstrand: give that a go
<kirkland> jdstrand: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/255113/
<jdstrand> kirkland: will iscsiadm work ok without things like iscsi-iname and iscsi_discovery? what about iscsid.conf?
 * jdstrand again, has no idea :)
<kirkland> jdstrand: i don't know ...  i was able to install it alone, and run it, and get the usage statement
<jdstrand> kirkland: ok. I'll take a look at it here
<kirkland> jdstrand: if this doesn't work for you, i'll do the inverse, and make another package with just the init script, dependent on the other one
<jdstrand> it looks like it should work just fine, I just wanted to make sure that iscsiadm would work ok on its own
<kirkland> jdstrand: well, that's sort of why i proposed calling this a -dev package, as those rarely provide standalone execute functionality
<Laney> jcastro: Do you know if the videotaped UDS sessions are going to make it online? (non-plenary)
<mok0> I'm looking for an example of someone maintaining packaging in a bzr branch.
<mok0> Something that's properly split into an "upstream" and an "ubuntu" branch
<tseliot> superm1: what's the status of DKMS flushing stdout?
<superm1> tseliot, still need to see what it does on RHEL/F11.  been working out a whole lot of other things with DKMS first
<tseliot> superm1: ok
<jdstrand> kirkland: configure:    iSCSI: yes
<jdstrand> kirkland: I think it is fine to upload. I checked iscsiadm.c and it doesn't seem to exec any of the other binaries
<kirkland> jdstrand: yeah, i grepped through there
<jdstrand> if it does need something, it is easy enough to change later
<kirkland> jdstrand: ack
<kirkland> jdstrand: did your libvirt build?
<jdstrand> kirkland: that was the 'configure:    iSCSI: yes' I mentioned
<kirkland> jdstrand: ah, okay
<kirkland> jdstrand: i'm uploading then
<kirkland> jdstrand: cool?
<jdstrand> kirkland: yeah, go for it
<jdstrand> kirkland: thanks :)
<kirkland> jdstrand: done ;-)  you're welcome :-)
<liw> what's the correct way to print to stdout some unicode text in python? or should I just use u.encode('utf-8')?
<liw> (i.e., assume utf-8 is the local charset, other charsets be damned?)
<tseliot> liw: "WrappingÂ sys.stdoutÂ into an instance ofÂ StreamWriterÂ will allow writingÂ unicodeÂ data withÂ sys.stdout.write()Â andÂ print": http://wiki.python.org/moin/PrintFails
<liw> tseliot, my problem is not related to the print statement, actually, but in taking a string and converting it to an encoding in the user's preferred charset
<liw> but I'm going to stick to utf-8 until someone complains
<tseliot> liw: what program would that be for?
<liw> does it matte?
<Laney> james_w: If I call debcommit from a branch which I've made following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation/GettingTheSource then I get a "readonly transport" error
<james_w> Laney: yeah, you're the second person to trip over that
<james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation/WorkingOnAPackage
<Laney> oh
<Laney> I need to branch?
<james_w> perhaps I should switch it round so that GettingTheSource gets you a full branch
<james_w> yeah
<Laney> I thought that was optional, like for a topic-branch
<james_w> the intent is that you always have a pristine copy of trunk, and then use feature branches
<Laney> alright
<james_w> yeah, it is optional, but it is good practice
<james_w> the pristine copy is important for merging, but perhaps I should move it to be a step in the merging process
<mathiaz> james_w: how about just a note in the GettingTheSource package that you should branch to work on an update?
<Laney> I just think you need to emphasise that step more
<james_w> mathiaz: that would be a good idea
<mathiaz> james_w: Having a co of the package is good approach IMO.
<james_w> it's two equally valid ways of working, it's just which makes more sense to people
<mathiaz> james_w: OTOH once write access to the LP branch is available having a co instead of a branch may lead to unexpected commits
<james_w> the other advantage of what Laney tried to do is that it is less steps until you get to the "vi ..." point of the process
<Laney> I didn't expect debcommit to try and push anyway
<james_w> mathiaz: true as well
<Laney> so I would have made my changes, commited with debcommit
<Laney> and then bzr push lp:~laney/...
<Daviey> Is this using LP to pull in upstream SVN etc, or using rules get-orig-source ?
<Laney> LP exposes packages as bzr branches now
 * Daviey will leave his question for another time then :)
<Laney> please don't
<james_w> Daviey: these branches are built from unpacked source packages, so it uses whatever is in the .orig.tar.gz
<james_w> we don't have anything that optimistically uses watch files/get-orig-source to try and merge new upstream versions or anything
<Laney> james_w: Is there a proper way to do a merge? I'd like to preserve context if possible
<james_w> and it's not attached to real upstream branches, which we intend to fix, but it is a big job
<james_w> Laney: a merge of what?
<Laney> from Debian
<james_w> ah
<james_w> "bzr merge lp:debian/sid/<package>" will work
<Laney> sweet
<james_w> however, if debian adds a new upstream version then you will get spurious conflicts :-/
<Laney> it's a native package...
<james_w> al-maisan is currently writing code to stop that from happening
<james_w> no problem then
<Laney> double sweet
<al-maisan> heh :)
<james_w> hi al-maisan :-)
<tseliot> slangasek: ping
<al-maisan> james_w: hello there :)
<tseliot> liw: no, I was just curious
<Daviey> james_w: Do we have a process to check debian/watch ?
<Laney> hm
<Laney> it missed out a Debian revision
<james_w> Daviey: and do what?
<james_w> report new upstream versions?
<Daviey> jah
<Laney> Daviey: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/
<james_w> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.html
<Daviey> Ooo.. didn't know this.
<Laney> and the corresponding Debian page for non ubuntu-specific packages
<Daviey> sure.
<james_w> Laney: what's the package that's causing trouble? I'd like to take a look
<Laney> james_w: cdbs ;)
<Laney> It's not really trouble, just a dropped revision when I merged from the sid branch
<james_w> Does my https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation/GettingTheSource edit help at all?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> but I bet when these branches become read/write you see a lot of accidental pushes
<Laney> is setting the sponsors as reviewer a part of the process?
<james_w> yeah, unfortunately :-/
<Laney> wiki page doesn't say this
<james_w> there's no team for "people who can upload this package" that we can make it default to
<james_w> I need to have the discussion again with LP people about how to make this work
<james_w> thanks, fixing
<james_w> Laney: which revision was dropped?
<Laney> 0.4.57
<james_w> ah
<Laney> unless this wasn't ever uploaded
<Laney> no, it was
<james_w> it seems LP never mirrored it
<Laney> think I've finished now
<Laney> that was fun
<Laney> spoiler I mainly did it to jump the sponsor queue
<Laney> visions of being told to go away as it's too close to FF
<james_w> so now you are going to make me review cdbs?
<Laney> I was being a bit cheeky
<Laney> of course I don't expect you to do that
<Laney> happy to wait :)
<Laney> Just edgy as pitti is off and it looks like he takes care of it here
<james_w> well, I said it, so now I've got to do it :-)
<james_w> I'll take a look, but I may defer
<Laney> no worries
<Laney> it's a scary package that I didn't particularly want to touch myself
<ogra> evand, do you have any idea about the ubiquity FTBFS on armel ?
 * ogra is wondering why the directory doesnt exist
<ogra> sed 's/@VERSION@/1.99.7/g' bin/ubiquity \
<ogra> 		> debian/ubiquity/usr/lib/ubiquity/bin/ubiquity
<ogra> /bin/sh: cannot create debian/ubiquity/usr/lib/ubiquity/bin/ubiquity: Directory nonexistent
<evand> hrm
<james_w> Laney: which changes to the haskell packages rely on?
<Laney> I see what you're thinking and I am half thinking the same
<Laney> the one from 0.4.59
<kees> does glib set free'd pointers to 0xaaaaaaaa ?
<soren> kees: How?
<soren> kees: Pointers are passed by value, aren't they?
<james_w> ah, I recognise the name now
<james_w> ubuntu->ubuntu diff looks ok to me
<james_w> can't see much there that might trip things up
<kees> soren: right, that's what I'm trying to understand.  I've seen a class of crashes from glib-linked code that deref 0xaaaaaaa+offset instead of NULL+offset, and I'm trying to figure out the source
<Laney> I test built a whole bunch of packages
<Laney> and didn't notice anything
<kees> soren: e.g.: Bug 415295
<ubottu> Bug 415295 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/415295 is private
<james_w> nice
<kees> gah
<soren> kees: Not allowed.
<kees> soren: one sec
<soren> Sure.
<kees> soren: I've sub'd you.  the retracer hasn't finished with it, so it's still private with the coredump
<soren> kees: Right, I can see the bug now.
<soren> Where do you see the 0xaaaaaaaa thing?
<kees>  source "0x4(%eax)" (0xaaaaaaae) not located in a known VMA region (needed readable region)!
<kees> soren: in the SegvAnalysis section
 * soren glances around
<soren> Oh, there!
<kees> I wonder if it's for glib-controlled structures (here, glist)
 * soren wonders if he can still find his way around glib code
<Riddell> kirkland: classads accepted but bug 415454 has a wee issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415454 in classads "copyright file should use common-licences" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415454
<kirkland> Riddell: i'll fix that ASAP
<slangasek> tseliot: hi
<slangasek> mdke: ok, rejected
<tseliot> slangasek: hey, do you mind if we discuss something in private?
<slangasek> tseliot: no problem
<niklas_> how to enable debugging symbols in a program so I can use it with gdb?
<niklas_> I've enabled -g and -O0, but gdb still complains "no debugging symbols found"
<evand> ogra: not sure, but I suspect it might be related to the work cjwatson did to move ubiquity to debhelper 7.  I'm poking at it.
<ogra> thanks, i wouldnt know where to dig ... intresting that it only happens on port arches though
<evand> indeed it is
<ogra> slangasek, i know its not your archive day today, but a look at the linux-mvl-dove package in source NEW would be appreciated so tim knows what to change to have proper naming everyone is happy with (i personally think the naming of the header binaries will get us issues and tim is still working on the package)
<tedst> hey
<tedst> #hello room
<tedst> hello room
<NCommander> slangasek, I can help w/ that package if need be since I'm depwait on it for many things :-)
<meta_> Hi folks
<meta_> I have installed karmic koala to my eee 1000h, and after an upgrade&reboot i have no mouse cursor now
<meta_> Now i'm from cli/irssi
<meta_> If anybody have an idea how can i get back my rat, please tell me:)
<Pici> meta_: This really isn't a support channel. Karmic discussion and support is in #ubuntu+1
<meta_> oh sry
<meta_> thank you
<Laney> james_w: Thanks loads for the upload
<mterry> What's the best way to regenerate an autoreconf.patch?  autoreconf -something -something?
<Laney> -f -i -s
<Laney> s'what I use
<mterry> k, and then delete the autom4te.cache crap?
<Laney> sounds good
<hyperair> i use autoreconf -vfi
<hyperair> rather, i put that in debian/rules
<hyperair> the banshee-daily ppa packaging has an example
<slangasek> hyperair: do you also remove the autogenerated files in debian/rules clean, so that there isn't a huge debdiff after every rebuild?
<hyperair> slangasek: yes..
<slangasek> hurray!
<hyperair> find -name Makefile.in -delete
<nh2> tseliot: how to print a simple trace of the functions called in gdb?
<nh2> I'd like to know the way a program took to a certain line
<chrisccoulson> mr_pouit - regarding bug 415525 - i'm not sure i understand the issue is currently
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415525 in gvfs "Please merge xdg-mount from gvfs 1.2.3-3 (debian unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415525
<chrisccoulson> gnome-mount is completely deprecated now isn't it?
<mr_pouit> chrisccoulson: I'm not sure how that works actually, but since there is explicit calls to gnome-mountâ¦
<chrisccoulson> mr_pouit - gnome-mount is not installed any more on ubuntu
<chrisccoulson> it's only required with the deprecated HAL backend
<chrisccoulson> you're using DK-disks / GDU on xubuntu aren't you?
<mr_pouit> devicekit?
<mr_pouit> no, thunar still rely on libhal-storage
<chrisccoulson> well, devicekit-disks and gnome-disk-utility
<chrisccoulson> hmmmmm
<juliux> hi does somebody knwos what software is used for this schedule? http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/
<chrisccoulson> i might need to try a xubuntu install here and figure out how it works ;)
<beuno> juliux, it's something Keybuk put together
<beuno> not sure if there's source for it somewhere or not
<juliux> beuno: thxs
<juliux> Keybuk: is the source of http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/ available?
<beuno> juliux, looking on LP, I found: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/summit
<beuno> juliux, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~scott/summit/schedule
<beuno> that seems to ahve the code
<mr_pouit> chrisccoulson: okay, thanks. I'm trying to figure out as well, but I have to admit I'm a bit lostâ¦
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll see if i can figure it out too
<chrisccoulson> but if you're doing the mounting via gio/gvfs, then all this should be transparent to thunar anyway
<chrisccoulson> mr_pouit - could you post the output of "gvfs-mount -li" somewhere from your xubuntu machine?
<chrisccoulson> (i'm just waiting for the ISO to download)
<mr_pouit> chrisccoulson: I only have a debian unstable+xfce at hand at the moment, but here it is http://pastebin.ca/1534197
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> debian unstable is still using the HAL VolumeMonitor it seems though
<chrisccoulson> i was just wondering if xubuntu is using the GDU VolumeMonitor instead - in which case, you don't need gnome-mount, as the mounting is all handled somewhere in libgdu
<mr_pouit> chrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255328/
<mr_pouit> it's from a vm, but it uses gdu apparently
<mr_pouit> so this means the patch isn't needed?
<chrisccoulson> mr_pouit - thats good - so there should be no need for gnome-mount
<mr_pouit> okay, I'll mark the bug as invalid then, thanks
<chrisccoulson> you're welcome
<slangasek> superm1: hmm, why does libmyth now need all of Qt as a dep?
<pgquiles> siretart: ping
<lamont>  /var/lib/dpkg/info/libc6.postinst: 92: runlevel: not found
<lamont> has that been reported yet, I wonder?
<slangasek> not AFAIK
<slangasek> lamont: I guess that's a jaunty->karmic upgrade, with a race condition on unpacking the new upstart packages
<slangasek> because someone said upstart doesn't need to be Essential: yes :)
<lamont> slangasek: jaunty->karmic in a chroot on a hardy box
<slangasek> lamont: Debian doesn't have this problem because sysvinit is Essential: yes; I'd suggest filing the bug against upstart to do the same, and if Keybuk rejects that, we can make libc6 depend on upstart (pff)
<lamont> lol
<slangasek> lamont: do you have a log showing the state of all 'upstart*' packages at the time the error happened?
<lamont> or at least notice that sometimes things aren't there..
<lamont> slangasek: only if apt-get dist-upgrade will give me such a log.
<slangasek> /var/log/apt/term.log :)
<lamont> ta
<slangasek> (unless you did it in a chroot with no ptys)
<lamont> :-)
<superm1> slangasek, it needs qt4 now, it used to need qt3
<slangasek> superm1: ah, indeed
<superm1> slangasek, is this a problem, or were you just curious..?
<mathiaz> lamont: hey - does it make sense to sync postfix from unstable to karmic?
<mathiaz> lamont: the mysql build dependency is included in unstable and there is a new upstream version
<ccheney> OOo 3.1.1~rc1-1ubuntu1 will be uploaded in about 45m (staging atm)
<TheMuso> c
#ubuntu-devel 2009-08-19
<EagleScreen> i have a dude about launchpad ppa, shall I ask here?
<porthose> #launchpad
<Laney> bah
<Laney> james_w: should have dropped kaffe build-dep from cdbs
<james_w> why's that?
<Laney> it's in universe
<james_w> oops
<Laney> do you want a bug for it?
<Laney> makes the ant test fail
<Laney> I'll look at it tomorrow
<bluefoxicy> so I have a suggestion!
<bluefoxicy> Evolution takes eternity to start.
<bluefoxicy> Imean literally 11 minutes.
<bluefoxicy> I want to add stuff to my calendar.  Can we do something about this?  Access the calendar but NOT the e-mail?
<lifeless> bluefoxicy: hi; thats really an upstream issue. There is at least one startup time bug filed in gnome bugzilla about this
<lifeless> (I know, I filied it :P)
<lifeless> I suggest filing another about controlling the view it starts with etc
<bluefoxicy> nods
<ccheney> HAHA, ia64 build is out of disk space
<directhex> :o
<ccheney> i looked to see why it failed to build OOo and it ran out of disk space just installing the build-deps
<directhex> but how will i run OOo on my altix now?
<ccheney> hmm well actually at the unpack stage of OOo but certainly long before any building occured
<ccheney> directhex: buy a better buildd
<dtchen> TheMuso: what are your thoughts on disabling flatvol in karmic? (i will ask on the ubuntu-devel list, too)
<dtchen> TheMuso: seemingly a vocal minority is quite unhappy
<dtchen> err, i meant ubuntu-devel-discuss
<kklimonda> dtchen: is flatvol going to be revised by PA's developer? otherwise you would be just switching it off forever or facing same minority in the future
<dtchen> kklimonda: it has already been vastly modified
<dtchen> kklimonda: i'm currently working through the diffs; i'll be uploading a new ppa version in a few hours
<dtchen> kklimonda: be aware that it's a vocal minority that seems to dislike it
<kklimonda> I know, but that's the problem, isn't it?
<kklimonda> the *vocal* that is :)
<arand> are there any plans to get partimage onto amd64? There was a bug stopping it but afaik it's long fixed by now...
<michaeld> hey
<kklimonda> dtchen: fwiw I think that If you could backport those patches to Karmic flat volume should stay
<michaeld> how can i join the team?
<dtchen> kklimonda: they will be.
<kklimonda> dtchen: after all lennart is taking beating for PA all the time, it's only natural we should take some of it on ourselves (I think that we shouldn follow upstream when possible)
<dtchen> kklimonda: oh we definitely take a beating, but that's a story for another time and place.
<kklimonda> :)
<kklimonda> dtchen: are your audio fixes in -6.25 from archive?
<dtchen> kklimonda: no
<dtchen> kklimonda: i need to take a few hours to cherry-pick the minimal set
<TheMuso> dtchen: What do we lose if we disable it?
<kklimonda> I couldn't test it in the last few days anyway - had a tough week and couldn't find time to fix some weird problem with nvidia module..
<dtchen> TheMuso: no regression from jaunty, since 0.9.15 doesn't have it; we probably will break with other distros shipping 0.9.16, however.
<dtchen> TheMuso: i'm inclined to leave it enabled, since it's a straightforward conffile mod
<TheMuso> dtchen: Ok sounds fair.
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> moins
<\sh> anyone up for some really nasty initramfs + network vlan not coming up + iscsi debugging? :) looks like that this is something which could be a showstopper
<maswan> Nope, but I was thinking of doing another round of install on one of my new and shiny bl460c g6's and see what new karmic bugs fall out. ;)
<\sh> usecase: network consists of bond mode 1 interface and on this one there is a vlan interface...setup some iscsi devices and add a line to /etc/fstab to mount the iscsi device...reboot e voila booting, waitiing for iscsi devices, fail, because network is not fully functional...I see the bondings, but not the vlans which is very strange
<\sh> therefore, iscsi device won't be mounted, fsck.xfs throws an error and drops me into a shell only with / part mounted
<\sh> maswan: hehe...the most prominent bugs are teh kernel messages at the very first lines of kernel booting, complaining about  non standard acpi crap of the vendor ;) (bl465c here)
<maswan> \sh: I'm booting off bnx2x 10GE, which is showing to be interesting driver-wise. ;)
<\sh> maswan: flex 10?
<maswan> \sh: yeah
<maswan> To add to the fun, this hardware is all new to me too. :)
<\sh> maswan: rock on :) we didn't buy the flex 10 just because boss didn't want to provide money for a 10GE infrastructure :) so I'm still on 1GBit/s
<\sh> maswan: which enclosure? bl7000c or the smaller brother 3000c?
<maswan> \sh: 7000c, half-full with the neat nehalem blades with 10GE onboard and a couple of storage blades for databases
<\sh> maswan: nice :) we have two 7000c (power supply full fledged + fans full fledged and full rows of bl465c (32GBit 2x 300GB 10k SAS drives)...ran a stress test on it...less heat and power then having a full fledged DL365G5 42U rack
<\sh> maswan: and using fai to deploy them with jaunty less then 10 minutes and you have a full running infra
<\sh> but for additional storage we are using 4 HP msa2012i but it fails because of the mentioned strange bug above
<\sh> maswan: and btw...never buy a DL385G5P the new HW design is terrible compared to the DL375G5
<maswan> For additional storage, this is distributed among 4 different countries and 8 sites, these are just central nodes for distributed grid storage stuff. The database is for the namespace etc, and conveniently should fit within 48G. :)
<\sh> maswan: wow...a nice setup for the ne xtreemFS ;)
<\sh> s/ne/new/
<maswan> \sh: oh, is it similar or not to the dl380 with 16 2.5"-slots?
<maswan> anyway, need to run off, and maybe we should continue this in a /query :)
<\sh> maswan: the dl385g5p are originally meant to be 385G6, but because of the missing 380G6 (nehalem) they named it g5p and the hw layout is crap...now you need 4 hands to change cpus or mem
<\sh> damn..meeting..then back to debugging this problem with initramfs + iscsi
<frandieguez> Hi to all, I have a question regarding the creation of deb packages. I'm making a virtual package for 32 and 64 bits platforms, but for 64 bits doesn't exist one package. Does exist a standarized method for solve this issue at debian/control file?
<directhex> frandieguez, better asked in #ubuntu-motu
<directhex> frandieguez, is it a missing build-dep or a missing binary package?
<maxb> asac: Hi - if you have a moment could you glance at bug 410624? Not to do it, but just to give advice on whether to work around it to not be caught by FeatureFreeze - thanks!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410624 in serf "Promote serf from universe to main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410624
<asac> maxb: i am doing MIRs today
<maxb> excellent, I'll check back tomorrow then
<maxb> thanks :-)
<Laney> Could I trouble someone to unbreak cdbs? bug 415898
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415898 in cdbs "Build-depends on Kaffe which is in universe" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415898
<user436> hey guys if your bored try facebook zombies :D - http://apps.facebook.com/zombies/links.php?r=719927515&nref=st
<ion> FloodServ or whatsitsname might be nice to have in Freenode as well.
<james_w> Laney: I'm working on sponsoring your fix, I just wandered in to some more bugs as I was going
<Laney> james_w: Oh, fun
<Laney> never touching this again
<james_w> not in cdbs, just LP
 * Laney forgot to set the reviewer
<Laney> is everyone on holiday this week or something? Very quiet...
<liw> Laney, no, there's just a new CoC version that now applies: for every IRC comment or mailing list message you must first fix a bug
<liw> (seriously: lots of people on vacation right now; August is the traditional month for holidays in most of Europe)
<Laney> I guess it makes sense to have a "down" week so that people don't block so much on those who are away
<blackxored>  how it's possible to make a sbuild chroot from a machine without network connection using something like apt-cacher-ng
<tseliot> mvo: is python-apt going to be updated to a new upstream release before Karmic's release?
<mvo> tseliot: I uploaded a new version today and another is will be uploaded before the weekend
<tseliot> mvo: will the API break again?
<mvo> tseliot: no - previous uploads should not have broken the api, is there a bug somewhere that I'm not aware of?
<tseliot> mvo: I just wanted to be sure that I can fix bug 396301 for good
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 396301 in envyng-core "EnvyNG needs to be updated to work with current karmic python-apt (0.7.10.4ubuntu1)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396301
<mvo> tseliot: oh, I see what you mean. this did indeed change, buts its a pretty internal change, why do you need to explicitely create a package object instead of obtaining it from the cache?
<tseliot> mvo: I need to get pkg.installedVersion and pkg.candidateVersion
<tseliot> and pkg.candidateDependencies, pkg.installedDependencies
<tseliot> where "pkg" is apt.package.Package()
<tseliot> is there a better way to do it?
<mvo> tseliot: is there a bzr brnach of your code?
<tseliot> mvo: lp:envy
<mvo> tseliot: give me a minute, I check it out
<tseliot> mvo: thanks
<mvo> tseliot: please merge/test/review lp:~mvo/envy/mvo - I made it use the current (and most easy) api, the whole apt_pkg stuff should no longer be needed
<mvo> tseliot: I'm not sure how to test it though, just running it from the checkout dir?
<tseliot> mvo: I guess the if __name__ == '__main__' part should work
<tseliot> mvo: thanks
<mvo> tseliot: I tried that, no luck:
<mvo>   File "packagemanager.py", line 381, in <module>
<mvo>     a = PkgManager()
<mvo> TypeError: __init__() takes exactly 3 arguments (1 given)
<tseliot> ah right
<tseliot> that's dealt with in abstraction.py
<tseliot> mvo: try passing None as both arguments
<tseliot> mvo: a = PkgManager(None, None)
<mvo> tseliot: yeah, that does it, thanks. need to fix another problem in my change :)
<tseliot> mvo: thanks again
<mvo> tseliot: ok, should work now. it throws some deprecation warning, but if you want to be able to backport I would leave that in for now (if not, then they are easy to fix)
<mathiaz> Riddell: Hi - I've almost finished transitioning main packages from libmysqlclient15-dev to libmysqlclient-dev
<mathiaz> Riddell: the one that are left are: akonadi, koffice, qt-x11-free and qt4-x11
<mathiaz> Riddell: would you mind doing those?
<tseliot> mvo: ok, thanks. I think I'll just hide deprecation warnings (so as not to scare users) for now (because of my lack of time)
<Riddell> mathiaz: I believe akonadi is in progress,  I can look at the others
<mathiaz> Riddell: great - thanks
<mathiaz> Riddell: have you also started to look into amarok?
<Riddell> mathiaz: I thought that had been uploaded
<mathiaz> Riddell: I haven't checked - just asking
<Riddell> apachelogger was onto it
<mathiaz> Riddell: amarok has been fixed
<ccheney> ugh i just accidentally deleted my only copy of my email filters :(
<ccheney> it was in a 'corrupted' backup of my email, and i somehow forgot i needed to manually extract the filters from the backup
 * ccheney thinks he will use this as a good excuse to convert off of evolution and use procmail
<Dark-Star> Hi! can anyone here tell me where I can find the xorg.conf file on (x)ubuntu 9.10? /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't exist. Also, where does xorg write it's log file(s)?
<mdz> does anyone have a guess as to what could cause this:
<mdz> linux-image-2.6.31-5-generic.preinst
<mdz> er
<mdz> Selecting previously deselected package linux-image-2.6.28-13-generic.
<mdz> Unpacking linux-image-2.6.28-13-generic (from .../linux-image-2.6.28-13-generic_2.6.28-13.44_i386.deb) ...
<mdz> Done.
<mdz> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
<mdz> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/linux-image-2.6.28-13-generic_2.6.28-13.44_i386.deb (--unpack):
<mdz>  subprocess dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile returned error exit status 2
<mdz> (with no other error messages)
<chrisccoulson> mdz - i can't answer your question, but i just saw your e-mail on ubuntu-devel about cleaning up the kernel postinst script...
<chrisccoulson> ...i agree! i've tried to debug kernel install issues in the past, but just ended up giving up
<chrisccoulson> the current script is horrendous;)
<chrisccoulson> Dark-Star - there is no xorg.conf on 9.10 AFAIK
<Dark-Star> hmm so how does xorg figure out which driver to use? and, more importantly, how do I configure server options like xaa etc?
<chrisccoulson> Dark-Star - the driver is chosen automatically
<chrisccoulson> for configuring things like xaa, then i don't know
<ebroder> Anyone from ubuntu-sru who could look at but #330766? This is a problem for my school's deployment, and we'd like to see it fixed before people start getting back to campus in a couple of weeks
<ebroder> Err, bug #330766
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 330766 in pulseaudio "pulseaudio hangs, prevents login, home as ntfs" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/330766
<nh2> tseliot: hi! I made two checkboxes for turning cornertapping on/off in Bug 386017 until your new configuration tool is available
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386017 in hundredpapercuts "Brushing right-edge of trackpad causes clipboard to paste text" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386017
<tseliot> nh2: I appreciate your help but the design team should review your change first (for usability issues, etc.)
<tseliot> nh2: maybe ask mpt
<nh2> tseliot: ok, I'll do so
<tseliot> thanks
<Q-FUNK> who do I ping for bugs against language writing support packs?
<Q-FUNK> the changelog in those seems to be automatically generated, just for the sake of having "something" as a log, rather than containing the name of an actual  developer who could be contacted. ;)
<Riddell> james_w: where can I find info about the dailybuild setup?
<ccheney> is there some new 'blur' effect used for notifications now?
<ccheney> the notifications i have been seeing lately are barely readable, i almost thought it was my vision except everything else on my desktop is clear
<soren> ccheney: Maybe you have a smudge on that part of the screen or the upper right corner of your classes? :p
<ccheney> soren: well it was blurred on top of a gnome terminal that displays fine, so i doubt that is it, heh
<ccheney> soren: i think it must be a new blurry vision feature ;-)
 * ccheney will try to take a screenshot next time, if it isn't an intended feature
<tedg> ccheney: There is a blur feature, but it should only be part of the fade.  So if your mouse is near by it should fade and blur.
<slangasek> er, why does launchpad keep logging me out?
<zyga> slangasek: do you have to login twice?
<slangasek> zyga: no, I can't stay logged in, /at all/
<zyga> strange, cookies?
<slangasek> no.  apparently fixed with a shift-reload
<Pici> There were a few other people reporting the same issue in #launchpad
<freinhard> hi!
<freinhard> tried to boot alpha4 on a laptop with intel graphics (855gm). black screen with default boot options, commandline in safe graphics mode and acpi disabled. anyone else?
<ccheney> tedg: ah ok, i will see next time if that was the issue
<ccheney> tedg: is the blur part new, i don't recall seeing it blur before
<Pici> freinhard: This isn't really a support channel.  Have you asked in #ubuntu+1 ?
<tedg> ccheney: I believe so.  I don't remember how much it blurred before.  I think it only blurred on the button presses.  Anyway, blur has been vastly improved in the new version none the less.
<ccheney> tedg: ok
<pgquiles> siretart: ping
<siretart> pgquiles: yes?
<pgquiles> siretart: let's talk about cdrtools :-)
<siretart> ok. what about it?
<pgquiles> siretart: you prepared packages of the official cdrtools back in the feisty days but no longer updated them. Did you just lose interest, or did jÃ¶rg schilling complain ?
<siretart> I did package them because schily asked me
<pgquiles> siretart: what about the future? will you create packages for new versions of cdrtools? will they be included in ubuntu?
<freinhard> 3~+
<siretart> my intend was to get them included into ubuntu, but in the end, the it was ruled that they are not going to be accepted unless schily explained why he refuses to add a small additional clause to his licensing
<pgquiles> siretart: what was that additional clause?
<siretart> pgquiles: additional clause to his CDDL libraries like libschily to allow GPL programs like mkisofs and cdda2wav to be linked against it
<siretart> this was proposed by the SFLC, but schily refused to even seriously comment on that
<siretart> *shrug*
<pgquiles> siretart: I see. I was thinking in taking over your cdrtools package (if it's OK with you) because cdrkit does not work with DVD+RW disks in my laptops' recorders
<siretart> btw, it is currently under review in debian (again): http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/schilyutils_20090510-pre9-1.html - the git repository for the packaging can be found on git.debian.org
<pgquiles> siretart: oh, nice
<siretart> you might want to join that efford and use that as basis instead of my old package
<pgquiles> siretart: I'll take a look, thanks!
<james_w> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyBuilds
<JonyBlaze> ubuntu uses cdrkit?
<siretart> james_w: around?
<pgquiles> JonyBlaze: every debian derivative uses cdrkit, AFAIK
<james_w> hi siretart
<pgquiles> actually, pretty much every linux distro uses cdrkit instead of cdrtools
<siretart> hey there
<siretart> james_w: I'm about to upload the new ffmpeg, you know, the rename as announced on ubuntu-devel
<JonyBlaze> arnt there a lot of bugs in cdrkit?
<nikolam> uhh, after trying to post a bug, I got this message (I logged in to launchpad previously and typed Very long bug description, I lost now):
<siretart> james_w: I'm not sure what soyuz will make of it, I assume that the overrides of the package needs to be adjusted so that 'ffmpeg' ends up in 'main' and no longer in 'universe'
<nikolam> Application error.  Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication.
<nikolam> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+filebug/or0Ee8xZYUdxQ0NsI3cNavixKYs#form-start
<siretart> james_w: is there something I can do to help the archive admins with that move?
<siretart> JonyBlaze: there are
<james_w> siretart: send a mail to ubuntu-archive@lists.ubuntu.com with instructions of what should end up where would be a great help
<james_w> thanks for the consideration :-)
<siretart> hm. I could bounce my message from ubuntu-devel there :-)
<james_w> if we don't listen then file a bug with the same information and subscribe ubuntu-archive
<james_w> sure :-)
<siretart> bounced
<siretart> so, just upload and see what happens?
<siretart> it's just that I'm not sure how I'll be avaiable the next days
<ccheney> is there a way to see if a package is installable on an architecture?
 * ccheney has a ftbfs due to uninstallable package on sparc
<james_w> ccheney: chdist
<JonyBlaze> ahh siretart built cdrtools for the ubuntu burning team ppa, sorry im slow
<ccheney> anyone around that can process openoffice.org it has NEW stuff
<Psi-Jack_> Okay. So, if I took the deb-src packages of linux-igd from 9.04, how would I compile that into a deb for 8.04 since linux-igd was completely skipped in hardy?
<ccheney> Psi-Jack_: potentially just a recompile if it is really simple, or could involve a huge amount of work depending on the package
<Psi-Jack_> Well, it doesn't look complicated. It's got the orig.tar.gz, diff.gz, and .dsc files.
<ccheney> Psi-Jack_: looks like it might be easy from what it shows as build-depends
<Psi-Jack_> All I need to know, really, is how to have it built.
<ccheney> use debuild or something on your local box i suppose
<Psi-Jack_> Or a webpage that explains how to do it from these three files. ;)
<ccheney> maybe use pbuilder if you don't want to install all the build-depends on your system
<ccheney> iirc with that you can just point it at the .dsc as well
<Psi-Jack_> I don't mind if I have to really.
 * ccheney bbl
<Psi-Jack_> !find upnp.h
<ubottu> File upnp.h found in autoconf-archive, libgmythupnp-dev, libgupnp-1.0-dev, libmyth-dev, libpurple-dev (and 3 others)
<Psi-Jack_> Oi, so, it's not as easy as just building it. :/
<directhex> Psi-Jack_, well, the build-deps are sorta needed, and will be pulled in by pbuilder amongst others
<Psi-Jack_> yeah, I got all the build-deps, but the compile itself, fails.
<Psi-Jack_> Well, blah.
<Psi-Jack_> Guess I'll just hafta up my eBox up to 1.3, from 9.04 and try it out. heh
<rickspencer3> jml: are you online? I have a question about writing tests
<rickspencer3> I seem to recall you are passionate about this topic
<james_w> kirkland: you don't use mass-sync.py?
<kirkland> james_w: b/c it's been flimsy for me
<james_w> rickspencer3: he is, but he is probably currently more passionate about his vacation :-)
<james_w> really?
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> fair enough
<kirkland> james_w: time to time, yes
#ubuntu-devel 2009-08-20
<soreau> Would someone be able to tell me how to use wild card characters with apt, ie. 'aptitude <action> *package*' ?
<ebroder> 'aptitude action ~npackage'
<mathiaz> soreau: use quotes ",' around your package otherwise you'll get shell globing
<soreau> Thank you ebroder
<soreau> mathiaz: What?
<ebroder> Oh yeah - mathiaz is right. aptitude will handle * without the ~n
<ebroder> But your shell is eating the * if you don't do '*package*' <- with the quotes
<directhex> om nom nom
<soreau> ebroder: ~n works but I don't understand how to do the same with quotes
<Laney> mmm asterisk
<ebroder> soreau: aptitude install '*package*'
<ebroder> Leave the quotes there
<ebroder> Go read http://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/sect_03_03.html
<soreau> ebroder: I am actually using version number and doing that just says it can't find package "*<version>*"
<dholbach> good morning
<chrisccoulson> does anyone know if it is possible to stop the apport retracer from marking new bug reports as duplicates of a particular bug report? i'm investigating a gnome-settings-daemon crash, which is getting lots and lots of duplicates, but it has a similar backtrace to an older (now fixed) crash, and apport is continually marking the new reports as duplicates of the old (fixed) report
<chrisccoulson> there is currently someone manually changing the duplicate link on every new report
<\sh> guys, after / mount, after the fscks, when fsck breaks, it tells me that it writes a log file under /var/log/<bla>/ but at this stage, /var/log is not even correctly available, because the mounts were not going through...where does it write the logfiles then?
<\sh> (disregarding the fact of people using flat directory structures with a single partition)
<dholbach> chrisccoulson: pitti would know, but he's on holidays
<chrisccoulson> dholbach - thanks
<chrisccoulson> its unfortunate, because it scrubs the stacetrace from every new report
<dholbach> maybe drop him an email
<chrisccoulson> dholbach - i don't want to disturb him on his vacation ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's nearly the end of the week now anyway, so he'll be back in a couple of working days
<dholbach> I dunno what he was planning, if he has a similar vacation as I had, then you'd be out of luck :)
<ogra> he might have taken two weeks ...
<chrisccoulson> ogra - yeah, he's taken 2 weeks
<chrisccoulson> this is the second week already though
<ogra> and if he reads mails during holidays its his own fault ;)
<ogra> its not like you ring his mobile or so ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, he should switch his mobile off when on vacation ;)
<chrisccoulson> i had my employer phone me up once when on vacation
<chrisccoulson> i was not very happy ;)
<highvoltage> I guess it depends on your kind of job, in some situations it's acceptable for your boss to phone you during holidays.
<chrisccoulson> not in my job it's not ;)
<glatzor> morning mvo
<mvo> hey glatzor!
<glatzor> mvo, I wrote a transaction cache using a metaclass
<mvo> glatzor: sweet, what do you think about the dettach() code?
<glatzor> mvo, merged in (I rewrote your patch to fix a spelling error and use another naming convention signal_matchers)
<glatzor> thanks a lot
<glatzor> mvo,  I also added a time out to the daemon transaction
<glatzor> you now have got 30 seconds between requesting a transaction and performing an action with it
<glatzor> furthermore the transaction will be removed after it is finished from the bus
<mvo> glatzor: nice, so all leakings should be gone now - thanks a lot :)
<glatzor> mvo, by the way how can I track a bug ony for a single ubuntu version? I fixed a bug in karmic which is still present in jaunty.
<mvo> glatzor: you can add a karmic bugtask and a jaunty one
<mvo> glatzor: and close them individually
<mvo> glatzor: what is the bugnumber?
<glatzor> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/packagekit/+bug/369081
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 369081 in packagekit "AttributeError: 'DebPackage' object has no attribute 'pkgName' when installing virtualbox deb in kpackagekit" [Medium,Confirmed]
<mvo> glatzor: I added them (via nominate for release
<lifeless> mvo: hi
<lifeless> mvo: I'm sitting on my jaunty desktop; building a few things and installing the debs
<lifeless> mvo: /every time I install one/ update-manager pops up in my face about some [dangerous X-edger stuff]
<lifeless> mvo: not to mention that my CPU churns while it re-reads the DB :(
<lifeless> mvo: any advice ?
<mvo> lifeless: could you please try installing the update-notifier from jaunty-proposed?
<mvo> lifeless: that sounds like bug 369198)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 369198 in update-notifier "update-manager auto-opened after each apt use when security updates available" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369198
<jms> i wonder why the display config doodad in jaunty refuses to push 1600x1200 to my external monitor. is there an ubuntu x channel?
<lifeless> mvo: thanks!
<evand> tkamppeter: Should foomatic-db-hpijs be removed from the seeds now that foomatic-db replaces it?
<tkamppeter> evand, yes, packages which should be removed are foomatic-db-hpijs and hal-cups-utils.
<evand> tkamppeter: okay, I'll update the seeds then
<RAOF> jms: Yes; #ubuntu-x
<tkamppeter> evand: Thanks.
<evand> sure thing
<jms> ta RAOF
<jms> hm, no right-click join channel in smuxi
<evand> tkamppeter: I take it the hpijs and hplip packages can stay, correct?
<tkamppeter> Yes, hplip is the principal driver package for HP printers, perfectly maintained by HP, and hpijs is a binary sub-package of hplip.
<tkamppeter> So both have to stay.
<evand> great, thanks!
<lifeless> mvo: :( it still turns up, or do I need to kill a process?
<mvo> lifeless: yeah, killall update-notifier and start it again
<tkamppeter> evand: foomatic-db recommends hpijs and hplip recommends hplip-cups. This should assure that the HPLIP printer drivers get installed.
<evand> ah, noted
<Unggnu> hi all
<Unggnu> I like the Netbook edition very much but it lacks one thing. Is it somehow possible to use a background image? I would like to use this version for my mothers laptop but she always has an image of the whole family is background which she would probably miss.
<Unggnu> So that the netbook menu is transparent or something like that.
<Unggnu> The netbook menu application also doesn't restart if it crashes in Karmic.
<glatzor> mvo, hello. the new install|broken|delete_count are broken in the latest python-apt
<mvo> glatzor: fixed in my tree, thanks
<glatzor> mvo, will you also merge revno 304?
<glatzor> mvo, my last uses of the internal _depcache object are for the problem resolver/action group factory, IsInstBroken and IsAutoInstalled
<glatzor> mvo, for actiongroup jak already implemented the context manager
<mvo> glatzor: yes, I can merge that as well
<glatzor> mvo, see you i Have to change trains!
<Riddell> tkamppeter: CD builds are broken with  foomatic-db: Recommends: cjet but it is not installable  any fix on the way?
<slangasek> ccheney`: something appears to have regressed in openoffice.org-l10n since alpha4; openoffice.org-*-en-{gb,za} are being pulled onto the CD again
 * mvo waves to glatzor
<mvo> hey slangasek!
 * slangasek waves
<ogra> StevenK, there is a linux-image-imx51 and friends in binary NEW, could you punch that so it gets published ?
<ogra> or al-maisan_ ^^ (either of you is archive admin of the day it seems :) )
<al-maisan> ogra: I am still a learner :) and was advised to stay away from the NEW queue initially :)
<ogra> oh, even binary ?
<ogra> i'll wait for someone else then
<al-maisan> ogra: I ran lintian on linux-image-imx51 and friends; please see http://pastebin.com/df22969e
<al-maisan> ogra: is that what you'd expect to see?
<slangasek> al-maisan: well, the 'unknown-architecture' warning is self-evidently spurious :)
<ogra> heh, i have never run lintian on a kernel package from the kernel team, so i dont know
<al-maisan> aha :)
<ogra> linux-image-2.6.31-100-imx51: no-copyright-file is a bit funny
<slangasek> "funny" - in that if it's true, it makes the package undistributable
<slangasek> and it's true :(
<ogra> well, its using the std kernel team scripts .... weird
<ogra> i would exepect the outcome to be the same as other kernel packages
<al-maisan> so, what now? should the binary be rejected?
<slangasek> al-maisan: yes, unfortunately
 * amitk al-maisan 
<amitk> oops
<al-maisan> :)
<ogra> al-maisan, wonderful catch though :)
<al-maisan> ogra: I am just a beginner as I said ..
 * al-maisan did what the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration page said ;)
<ogra> and you did well :)
 * ogra tickles the publisher ... come on do your ports mirroring
<liw> mvo, could you have quick peek at #416362 and the attachment at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30571823/log ? " __init__() got an unexpected keyword argument 'deptype'" in /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apt/package.py looks like a python-apt problem to me
<mvo> liw: yes, my error - I upload a new python-apt now
<liw> mvo, shall I reassign this to python-apt?
<mvo> liw: yes
<liw> mvo, done, thanks
 * liw wnats to be as effective as mvo (and joeyh) at fixing bugs, when he grows up
<mvo> liw: as long as you don't become as efficient at adding them ;)
<mvo> liw: sorry for the trouble
<liw> mvo, no worries, it was very little trouble
 * liw sighs at comment changes in conffiles
<beuno> do I still have time to update a package for karmic?
<ogra> the system should really learn to ignore comments
<ion> liw: In reality, you sigh at how badly dpkg handles (read: does not handle) the merging of conffile changes. :-P
<liw> ogra, that's practical as soon as we standardize on one configuration file format
<ion> ogra: No, it should just do a standard three-way merge.
<liw> beuno, feature freeze is only next week
<ogra> ion, blindly ? ouch
<ion> ogra: Of course not blindly.
<beuno> liw, cool, thanks. I will make a release of loggerhead today then, so we're not stuck with 1.10 for karmic
<liw> ion, please don't tell me what I sigh at, thanks; until dpkg can be improved in this, it is silly of the maintainer to make comment-only changes in conffiles
<ogra> well, thats what it does, no ? it asks you to review the changes
<ogra> though in comments thats really pointless
<ogra> having something like COMMENTCHAR that ucf can read and you can set on a per package base should make it ognore such commented lines completely imho
<ogra> *ignore
<tkamppeter> Riddell, what is the exact problem with cjet? Is the problem that it is in Universe or are dependencies not fulfilled?
<Riddell> tkamppeter: it's in universe
<tkamppeter> Riddell, so it would already help if I move it to Suggests?
<Riddell> tkamppeter: yes that should sort it
<blackxored> hello, what's the best way to use the debian-policy, debootstrap, build-essential and the like from debian unstable in ubuntu?
<mterry> Hey, slangasek, I wanted to talk to you about what exactly feature freeze means for some work I'm doing on ubiquity.  Ping me back when you get a chance
<slangasek> mterry: this is a contentless pong :-P
<mterry> slangasek, :)  OK, so I'm working on (A) having ubiquity support plugin pages (drop a python script in a dir and it gets picked up) and (B) porting it internally to use plugins.  I suspect this triggers FF concerns because of the public API involved?
<mterry> slangasek, even though it's a new API
<mterry> slangasek, FF would only care about point (A), right?  Not (B)
<slangasek> mterry: mm, I would consider both of those to be covered by FF
<slangasek> I would define "features" in this case as "things that aren't bugfixes", so code reorg qualifies :)
<mterry> slangasek, ah, k
<tkamppeter> Riddell: Fixed foomatic-db uploaded.
<Riddell> tkamppeter: great thanks
<Riddell> blackxored: you should be able to debootstrap a debian chroot
<Riddell> mterry: you saw that gwt got accepted?
<blackxored> Riddell, no, that wasn't what I asked I need to work with the latest debian-policy, the latest debootstrap, I mean, only a subset of packages, my lvm chroot is for building
<mterry> Riddell, no?  gwt?
<ogra> blackxored, you asked for the best way, Riddell told you "inside a chroot"
<blackxored> ogra, truly but I know there was a way of pinning or assigning priorities to specific packages from different repos I just don't remember
<Riddell> mterry: I'm getting my terry's confused, I want ttx
<mterry> Riddell, :)  np
<ttx> Riddell: Thierry :)
<ttx> Riddell: Yes, I saw that.
<ttx> Riddell: still stuck in binaryNEW though.
<Riddell> ttx: I'm sure StevenK or al-maisan will get to it shortly, it's their archive admin day
<al-maisan> ttx: sorry .. what is the binary/NEW upload you're waiting for?
<ttx> al-maisan: gwt and eucalyptus-commons-ext. No hurry though...
<al-maisan> hmm .. right.
<dholbach> tkamppeter: can you replace ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com with ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com in one of your next foomatic-db uploads?
<dholbach> (in debian/control)
<dholbach> I get a mail from archive.ubuntu.com in the moderation queue every time :)
<EagleScreen> the default init boot parameter in a Debian system is "init=/sbin/init", which is the default in Ubuntu?
<ion> init=/sbin/init
<EagleScreen> in Ubuntu /sbin/init is not an executable
<ogra> huh ?
<ion> Then your system is majorly broken.
<ccheney`> slangasek: ok will check it out
<EagleScreen> /sbin/init is a shared library in Ubuntu, but an executable in Debian
 * ogra wonders what EagleScreen looks at ... definately not ubuntu
<soren> EagleScreen: "md5sum /sbin/init" please.
<EagleScreen> 591e0d59e1355aeffbf57ffbb4581007  init
<soren> Is this in Karmic?
<EagleScreen> is in juanty, but it is isntalled using debootstrap + tasksel
<ccheney`> amd64 jaunty init
<EagleScreen> yes, amd64
<soren> EagleScreen: What makes you say it's a library?
<slangasek> that's the correct md5sum for the amd64/jaunty upstart /sbin/init
<slangasek> which is not a library
<EagleScreen> Dolphin says: Shared library, and put it an icon with 1's and 0's, but in a Debian init, dolphin Says: executable, and put it an icon of a metalic gear
<ogra> sounds like a dolphin bug
<EagleScreen> then should i can use root=/sbin/init for Ubuntu?
<ogra> or whatever tells dolphin about filetypes
<james_w> the magic is "shared object", not "executable"
<james_w> but it doesn't make it invalid
<ogra> that would try to use /sbin/init as your root device
<virtuald> $ file /sbin/init
<virtuald> /sbin/init: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, stripped
<ogra> what exactly do you try to achieve ?
<james_w> EagleScreen: you should use init=/sbin/init, but I think you don't need to, as it's the default
<ogra> right
<ogra> you dont need to
<ccheney`> the only difference i see from file output of that /sbin/init (not virtuald's) is that it is build for 2.6.8 support vs 2.6.15 of other things
<EagleScreen> i try to boot with grub a debootstrapped root tree
<ogra> well, you definately dont need init= at all
<EagleScreen> kernel developpers suggested me that y cna try playing with init parameter
<ccheney`> EagleScreen: do you have a kernel installed? debootstrap doesn't install one by default
<ccheney`> EagleScreen: it also doesn't setup fstab iirc
<EagleScreen> yes i have a kernel installed, and also ubuntu-minimal, ubuntu-standard and a couple of configuration files ready
<tkamppeter> dholbach: Updated foomatic-db.
<slangasek> EagleScreen: this is really far out of scope for this channel; you should ask these questions on #ubuntu
<dholbach> tkamppeter: gracias!
<slangasek> (and preferably, start your question with an error message showing what's wrong instead of speculation about init= options...)
<EagleScreen> yes, i know, but thay drop me here lol
<EagleScreen> okay, thanks, you have given em an idea
<jerrcs> nobody really helps in #ubuntu..
<jerrcs> If it's a more technical issue it's very hard to get a reply.
<jerrcs> I've been asking my question about I/O errors in dmesg for hours now.. I tried last night too.
<ccheney`> slangasek: looking into why openoffice.org-l10n-en-gb is installed and the only things that rdepend on it at all are openoffice.org-help-en-gb and language-support-translations-en and for openoffice.org-help-en-gb it is openoffice.org-l10n-en-gb and language-support-translations-en, so now idea at all how it is getting pulled onto the cd
<slangasek> ccheney`: ok, perhaps it's related to OOo being out-of-date; let me check
<ccheney`> slangasek: ok
<ccheney`> slangasek: its all in the archive now, OOo itself had some new pieces that just got accepted today i think
<slangasek> ccheney`: I know, I accepted them. :)
<ccheney`> slangasek: ah, thanks! :-)
<ccheney`> slangasek: er language-support-translations-en specifically depends on that stuff, not even just recommends
<ccheney`> slangasek: is that package being pulled into the cd?
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> and OOo may be the reason for that
<ccheney`> er?
<ccheney`> the package is from july 15 2009
<ccheney`> so nothing new about it that i can see
<slangasek> I mean, OOo being out-of-date may have been the reason for that
<ccheney`> oh ok
<ccheney`> on my system language-support-translations-en isn't installed, so maybe it normally isn't
 * ogra wishes he even had OOo
<slangasek> yes, it normally isn't
<ccheney`> ok
<ogra> silly slow publisher on ports :(
<ccheney`> anyone know if ia64 buildd is going to get more space soon? OOo ftbfs on it due to not enough space to unpack
<ogra> NCommander might know ... he often cares for the exots :)
<ccheney`> oh yea
<ccheney`> NCommander: ping
<slangasek> ccheney`: yep, getting OOo back in has brought the alternate CDs back down in size, cheers
<slangasek> now to find out why exim4 is on the CD :P
<slangasek> hmm, 'at'
 * ccheney` is on the phone with the bank, apparently he got hit by that 130Mil account credit card theft
<liw> does anything require at to be in the default install? few people seem to use it, and they could add it separately
<liw> ccheney`, ouch, good luck
<slangasek> liw: Unix pride? :)
<slangasek> the real bug here is an at merge that turned Suggests: postfix | m-t-a into Recommends: exim4 | m-t-a
<liw> slangasek, I'm not sure pride is sufficient justification ;-)
<slangasek> in fact, this was a bad merge, not merely an oversight
<lamont> ccheney`: happen to know which buildd that was?
<lamont> I'll go look at both though
 * ogra starts getting angry with the publisher ... OOo built 3h ago and still doesnt show up on ports ...
<slangasek> ogra: which arch?
<slangasek> ogra: if armel, that's because it's in NEW
<ogra> gah
<slangasek> and now it's out of new
<ogra> i should have looked there first :P
<ogra> instead of hitting reload on the archive dir for 3h
<liw> what we have here is a failure to communic... complain loudly enough, early enough, that someone with the answer notices
<ogra> liw, well, i know actually that it takes about 2h
<slangasek> it's not supposed to take 2h.
<ogra> it does on ports
<liw> ogra, actually, in an ideal world, you could have told some system somewhere that you're interested in this and it would've told you what's up
<slangasek> then you should be talking to IS :)
<ogra> well, when i complained during A4 preparation you said it would be a known issue that its slow
<ogra> so i kept quiet
<slangasek> the publisher currently takes only ~30m to run (thanks, cprov!); that means the average time from binary accept to mirroring is 1h
<slangasek> and the mirroring should take only a fraction of that
<slangasek> ah, yes, it was a known issue during A4 that was being actively addressed:)
<ogra> well, i'll check if its actually true with one of my packages then before i complain, i guess i cant count OO.o now after it was stuck on NEW
<ogra> but good to know its supposed to be fixed
<slangasek> you should be able to tell with OOo
<mathiaz> when should a system account used by a daemon be removed? during the remove phase or the purge phase?
<slangasek> it was accepted 7 minutes ago, so it'll hit the next publisher run in 29 minutes, and should be visible on ports about 45 minutes after that
<slangasek> mathiaz: never :)
<mathiaz> slangasek: so system account are created but never deleted?
<liw> mathiaz, it is possible the account owns files (possibly on other systems via NFS but offline during package removal), which means many people (slangasek and I) think it should never be deleted automatically
<slangasek> yep
<liw> if someone were to want to create tools for managing system accounts (create upon install, remove at purge if local admin says it's OK), that would be much appreciated, thanks
<liw> alternatively, someone might want to write a computer-janitor plugin ;-)
<slangasek> liw: I think the Windows approach (never deallocate an RID once it's been allocated) is much better. :)
<slangasek> simpler
<mathiaz> Is it ok to remove user-added configuration files during a purge?
<slangasek> gray area; IMHO yes
<mathiaz> ie rm -rf /etc/config_dir/ where /etc/config_dir/ is part of the dirs package
<liw> I wouldn't do that, but if it saves a lot of effort, I wouldn't object strongly
<ion> The user should have backups if she doesnât want purge to, well, purge. :-P
<mathiaz> And data stored in /var/lib/daemon_data/ should be deleted ( rm -rf /var/lib/daemon_data) on remove?
<liw> mathiaz, I don't think so
<mathiaz> on purge?
<liw> though I forget what the Policy says
<liw> not even on purge
<mathiaz> or never..
<slangasek> I don't think Policy says about /var/lib/daemon_Data
<slangasek> some packages ask
<liw> it would be awkward to delete, say, a news spool just because you purge one NNTP server
<slangasek> which is a poor proxy really, because there's always a chance that the question is asked far away from the point when you're doing the actual purge
<mathiaz> in that use case if you'd reinstall the package you'd have the old data come back
<slangasek> stgraber: does ltsp-server-standalone really need to Recommend: dhcp3-server?  This costs us 300k on the Ubuntu alternate CD
<liw> mathiaz, hm, if re-installing package will restore data in /var/lib, why is the data there? what data is it?
<mathiaz> liw: let's say a database
<mathiaz> liw: on pkg install you need to initialize the database
<mathiaz> liw: now if you re-install a package that had been purged you'd still have the old database lying around
<liw> mathiaz, I think the relevant question is: does the /var/lib/foo directory contain user data that cannot be easily re-created; if so, don't remove it ever
<liw> or that's what I would do (I hope)
<liw> the preinst/postinst script can handle an old database (perhaps by renaming it)
<mathiaz> And how about log files (/var/log/foo)? Should the directory be rm -rf on remove/purge?
<slangasek> mathiaz: that one's covered in policy.. :)
<mathiaz> slangasek: section 10.8 :)
<slangasek> mathiaz: yep
 * jtimberman thinks mathiaz is looking at stompserver's removal behavior!
<jtimberman> ;)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yeah - more comments to come soon :)
<jtimberman> mathiaz: already opening up my editor ;)
<jtimberman> mathiaz: ah, simply looks like we don't need the postrm script at all then.
<jtimberman> oh, rather, the purge action should remove /var/log/stompserver, and the other actions not do anything.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yop - and may be rm -f /etc/stompserver/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yop - and may be rm -rf /etc/stompserver/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: on purge
 * ogra hugs slangasek ... OO.o is there exactly how you predicted
<jtimberman> updated
<lyhana8> hi, I just install kubuntu 9.04 few days ago and my touchpad doesn't work anymore (worked on hardy), cat /dev/input/mouse* give nothing
<jtimberman> mathiaz: that's looking better now. purging the package leaves /var/lib/stompserver alone if there's anything in it, otherwise removes it if empty. logrotate script is created properly (and removed) as well, of course.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yop
<mathiaz> jtimberman: howeevr /var/lib/stompserver won't be deleted on a production system as it will contain data
<jtimberman> mathiaz: right, if that option is set in the config file :)
<jtimberman> with that patch included ;)
<cdE|Woozy> is there some magic required to post to the ubuntu mailinglists? I've now posted three mails to two different mailinglists and apparently nothing ever appeared on either mailinglist =X
<ScottK> slangasek: The last uploads for the boost 1.35 transition are done.
<slangasek> ScottK: woot
<ScottK> cdE|Woozy: Normally you have to be subscribed.
<ScottK> slangasek: As an added bonus, so far they all build.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: in the logrotate file: /etc/nit.d/stompserver force-reload
<mathiaz> jtimberman: there is an i missing in there
<ion> Rather: service stompserver force-reload, since it will make sure the init scriptâs environment wonât get polluted etc.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: fixed and uploaded.
<cdE|Woozy> whooho, it worked. thanks ScottK
<jtimberman> ion: /etc/init.d/foo is mentioned in the policy so thats what i put..
<lyhana8> anyone could explain me why my touchpad doesn't work anyomore after moving from hardy to jaunty ?
<dholbach> Ubuntu Global Jam meeting in 30m in #ubuntu-meeting
<mathiaz> slangasek: I've modified the slapd user creation to use /nonexistent as the home directory.
<mathiaz> slangasek: does it make sense to have daemon user to have non existing home directory?
<mathiaz> slangasek: or it would be better to keep the home directory of slapd to /var/lib/ldap?
<cr3> what/who might be a good reference about udev? not writing rules, but where/how values are retrieved by udevadm
<ogra> tkamppeter, does foomatic-db-hpijs need to be unseeded ? (ubuntu-desktop currently depends on it but foomatic-db conflicts with it)
<Chase_> I've got a package I've developed and I'm interested in publishing it under the GPL
<Chase_> I saw that the copyrights may be an issue
<Chase_> I use Qt's QSslSocket, which uses openssl indirectly
<ogra> oh, evand did unseed it already
<Chase_> I had seen on the ubuntu wiki somewhere that GPL apps linked directly or indirectly to openssl would be flagged
<Chase_> is that really an issue since I'm using the qt libs?
<Chase_> Specifically, this is where I saw that issue: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#Copyright
<Chase_> second to last bullet point of "Common errors:"
<Usama> hello, there is outdated information on the Ubuntu web site
<Usama> is this the place to report it?
<mathiaz> Usama: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/
<mathiaz> Usama: ^^ this is place to report a bug related to the ubuntu web site
<Usama> ok I'll post the problem here because I'might have no time to report it there http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors#dvd the links only shows hardy but if you went to higher level in the domain you will get the latest ftp://swtsrv.informatik.uni-mannheim.de/pub/linux/distributions/ubuntu-dvd-release
<tkamppeter> ogra:  foomatic-db-hpijs must get unseeded, also hal-cups-utils
<ogra> tkamppeter, yes, my fault, i missed that evand already unseeded it
<Usama> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/416622
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 416622 in ubuntu-website "DVD download page is outdated, it shows Hardy mirrors only" [Undecided,New]
<lifeless> doko: hi
<chordogg> hello all, there is a behavior in ubuntu that i dont care for, i was wondering if you knew how to change it. when i switch to say tty1, and log in. if i logout of that shell, ubuntu switches me back to tty7 when i really just want to stay in my current tty...i can't hunt down what controls this behavior, anyone know?
<slangasek> mathiaz: I don't think we should use nonexistent directories as home dirs for users; something might create them later and give unexpected results
<jono> any idea which package the Preferred Applications tool is in?
<mathiaz> slangasek: right - I'm going to change that. /var/lib/ldap wil be created anyway as part of the slapd package installation
<mathiaz> slangasek: the reason to use /nonexistent was that at first I though /var/lib/ldap/ wouldn't need to be created anymore
<slangasek> ah
<chrisccoulson> jono - gnome-control-center
<jono> thanks chrisccoulson
<stgraber> slangasek: yes, we need to have dhcp3-server. It used to be a hard depend but as some people are using dnsmasq instead, I moved it to a recommend.
<stgraber> slangasek: if we don't have it, your thin clients won't be able to boot after install.
<stgraber> (sorry for the late answer :))
#ubuntu-devel 2009-08-21
<slangasek> stgraber: ah, I see that it was there in jaunty too; alas
<TheMuso> slangasek: Are we likely to get multi-arch for karmic? I ask because if we're not, I guess I'd better start working on getting lib$bi packages done so we can have a lib$bi pulse package...
<slangasek> TheMuso: it's in jeopardy; I'm afraid I have to recommend that you start working on the biarch bits needed for pulse
<TheMuso> slangasek: Ok thanks.
<jcastro> bryce: YOU ARE A HERO.
<jcastro> bryce: I've been asking for lp to do excatly what you did with your script for like, ever.
<ebroder> I want to try and get an SRU into Jaunty for bug #328575 - it's affecting our site deployment. The Debian maintainer introduced a fix in 2.26.2-2; the upstream maintainer committed a different fix on master (f41c3d14). Which one should I backport?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328575 in dbus "Cannot start gnome-terminal (or x-terminal-emulator) because of gconf error" [Unknown,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328575
<ebroder> (The upstream fix seems to be somewhat more correct than the Debian fix)
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> ArneGoetje: I just had a chat with lidaobing about ibus and it seems that MIR have been filed already - do you know what the state is and what's going to happen in karmic?
<lidaobing> dholbach, hi
<wgrant> StevenK: What gives you the idea that team unsubscription is broken again?
<wgrant> WFM, and the tests still pass on edge's rev.
<StevenK> wgrant: It didn't work for me yesterday
<wgrant> StevenK: edge only updated over night.
<dholbach> StevenK: it worked for me yesterday again iirc, but it indeed was broken
<dholbach> but it definitely works now - I just did some sponsoring
<dholbach> by the way: http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ :-)
<dholbach> we're falling back
<StevenK> Let me try, I'll subscribe -archive to a bug
<wgrant> I fixed it fairly quickly, but a few PQM complications meant it took a day or two to land.
<StevenK> Right, it certainly wasn't working yesterday
<wgrant> And missed two edge rollouts.
<StevenK> I'd click the -, and it would spin but then not disappear
<dholbach> right
<StevenK> wgrant: You can nail that bug shut, if you like
<wgrant> StevenK: Thanks.
<tseliot> StevenK, slangasek: any trace of nvidia-graphics-drivers-180_185.18.31-0ubuntu1 in the archive?
<StevenK> nvidia-graphics-drivers-185/185.18.31-0ubuntu1
<StevenK> That's in source NEW, which isn't what we agreed to
<tseliot> StevenK: no, the source is -180
<tseliot> therefore you should see an nvidia-graphics-drivers-180_185.18.31-0ubuntu1.dsc, etc.
<StevenK> tseliot: nvidia-graphics-drivers-185_185.18.31-0ubuntu1.dsc
<StevenK> It isn't -180, it's -185
<tseliot> StevenK: no, please reject that. I don't know why it's there
<StevenK> tseliot: Rejected.
<tseliot> tjaalton: can you upload the correct nvidia driver for me, please?
<tseliot> StevenK: thanks
<tjaalton> tseliot: where
<tjaalton> ?
<tseliot> tjaalton: let me send you the links to the sources
<tjaalton> shouldn't the source be renamed to n-g-d?
<tjaalton> without the version
<StevenK> If it stays as -180, it won't hit source NEW
<tseliot> tjaalton: we'll do something similar in karmic+1
<tjaalton> tseliot: ok
<tseliot> tjaalton: I sent an email to your @cc.hut.fi address
<tjaalton> tseliot: thanks
<tseliot> tjaalton: thanks for the upload :-)
<tjaalton> tseliot: done
<tseliot> tjaalton: thanks a lot
<tjaalton> npo
<tjaalton> -o
<dandre> hello,
<dandre> Where can I find documentation on how to build a repository for ubuntu that could be put in ubuntu apt source ?
<lifeless> dandre: man apt-ftparchive
<dandre> is there any ubuntu specific data to consider or any debian style repository can be done?
<ogra> evand, ping
<evand> ogra: pong
<ogra> evand, could you merge http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lool/ubiquity/dh-installdirs-fix-for-ports/revision/3388
<ogra> it fixed the ports build issue of ubiquity
<ogra> and would enable me to finally get an image for armel :)
<evand> ogra: yarp, speaking with him right now about it
<ogra> ah, k
<lool> ogra: We just discussed it on #ubuntu-installer
 * ogra hates all these subchannels that fragment ubuntu-devel :/
 * lool thinks the whole #u-i team can read the full backlog of its chan but not of #ubuntu-devel
<ogra> yeah, i might just be nostalgic :P
<\sh> Keybuk: someone stole dircproxy.net ;) bug #416842
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 416842 in dircproxy "dircproxy man page points to a unknown url for dircproxy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416842
<lool> kees: Are you tempted to do a security review of papyon?  It's the MSN lib written in Python which will allow empathy to support MSN
<lool> In C I'd ask for one but given that's in python I guessed you would be less concerned about stack overflows etc.
<ogra> doko, around ?
<doko> ogra: yes
<ogra> doko, i'm looking at the FTBFS of graphviz and libshout on armel
<ogra> doko, devlibs error: There is no package matching [ld-linux3-dev] and noone provides it, please report bug to d-shlibs maintainer
<ogra> <ogra> thats the error (same in libshout and i bet if i dig i find more that try to use the nonexisting ld-linux3-dev
<ogra> doko, one fix would be to add s/ld-linux3-dev// to d-shlibs as an override
<ogra> doko, seems the same fix was used by the mojo guys since feisty, but now looking with objdump it seems that in karmic many packages have a "NEEDED" entry for ld-linux
<ogra> on armel at least
<ogra> well, ld-linux.so.3 to be specific
<ogra> doko, so i'm looking for a suggestion what to do, if the d-shlibs would still be appropriate or not ... i discussed that with lool already and we both came to the conclusion that we dont know enough on the topic
<ogra> s/d-shlibs/d-shlibs hack/
<doko> ogra: ok, will try to look at this today
<ogra> thanks
<ArneGoetje> dholbach: the MIR for ibus is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/398637 . There is still one outstanding packae in the New queue (ibus-qt). Once this is in the archive, we need to add it to the MIR and get it into main. Once all the packages have been approved, we can call for testing. I hope this all can be done this week...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 398637 in ibus-table-yong "[MIR] ibus and data packages" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<dholbach> ArneGoetje: I'll let lidaobing know
<ArneGoetje> dholbach: he is subscribed to the MIR
<dholbach> ah, maybe he didn't know what was still in the queue or something
<dholbach> ArneGoetje: so it's going to be the default in karmic?
<ArneGoetje> dholbach: I'd like to have it the default. I'm using it in gnome for quite some time already and didn't have any problems yet. But with ibus-qt in place extensive testing needs to be done on Kubuntu. Anyways, we won't drop scim for now, the user can still switch back if he wants to. But the plan is to have ibus as default, yes.
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> good to know
<liw> would anyone be willing to upload python-fstab and computer-janitor to karmic for me? (they're in main, hence not asking on -motu)
<AnAnt> Hello, why does request-sync in karmic use LP lib by default ?
<AnAnt> and how can I disable that ?
<ogra> jdstrand, its your archive day today, right ?
<jdstrand> ogra: yes
 * jdstrand cowers a little
<ogra> jdstrand, i'd like to get linux-fsl-imx51 out of binary NEW
<jdstrand> ogra: ok
<ogra> thanks :)
<NCommander> oh, hey jdstrand :-)
<jdstrand> ogra: should all this be in universe?
<jdstrand> hi NCommander
<ogra> jdstrand, no, actually in main, but i'm fine to wait for final approval from cjwatson or slangasek next week for that step, my images can build from universe atm
<NCommander> jdstrand, I have a really really OMG priority package that needs to get through NEW ASAP as its a huge blocker. If you could please bump linux-mvl-dove to the top of your reviewing list, I'd greatly greatly appreciate
<ogra> jdong, so wherever yu feel to put it is ok for me
<ogra> *you
<NCommander> ^it
<jdstrand> NCommander: ack
<jdstrand> ogra: done (to universe)
<ogra> thanks :)
 * ogra hugs jdstrand 
<jdstrand> ogra: np
<NCommander> jdstrand, thanks, your awesome, since this clears the way to build the package, binNEW it, and get the meta in archive
 * jdstrand likes being called awesome
<jdstrand> we'll see if it fits in a moment ;)
<NCommander> jdstrand, if it doesn't, please CC me on the reject email (mcasadevall@ubuntu.com) so I can work on getting that fixed
<jdstrand> NCommander: sure. by 'fits' I was talking about calling me 'awesome' :)
<jdstrand> NCommander: I'm working on it
<NCommander> jdstrand, oh, thank you very much
<jdstrand> NCommander: there is 2.6.31-200.3 and 2.6.31-200.2. I assume it is safe to reject 2.6.31-200.2?
<ogra> jdstrand, yes, somehow slangasek didnt drop them from the queue when he rejected .2
<jdstrand> ok
<ogra> .3 is the proper one
<NCommander> jdstrand, yeah, sorry, I stepped out for breakfast
<Riddell> Keybuk: can we chat about xsplash sometime?
<ogra> Riddell, you want the extra flashing boot too ? :)
 * ogra thinks his laptop flashes at least twice as much with xplash
<jdstrand> NCommander, ogra: accepted linux-mvl-dove 2.6.31-200.3
<ogra> thanks a lot
<ogra> there will soon also be a metapackage for linux-imx51
<ogra> rtg is working on it
<jdstrand> ok
<NCommander> jdstrand, you are awesome^2
<jdstrand>  5
<jdstrand> o/
<jdstrand> np guys :)
 * NCommander waits for a build record to pop up so I can rescore it
<rtg> slangasek, what is 'Duplicated ancestry' wrt linux-meta-mvl-dove ?
<ogra> slangasek, i would like to milestone bug 417009, but somehow i cant
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 417009 in openoffice.org "all openoffice apps die in 'com::sun::star::ucb::InteractiveAugmentedIOException' on armel in karmic" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417009
<kees> lool: I'm not hugely worried about it, but checking for stuff like "eval" or os.system, subprocess, etc might be nice.
<mdz> robbiew_away: bug 357907 is a blocking issue for kernel crash dumps
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 357907 in malone "+filebug is timing out when processing large blobs" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/357907
<mdz> robbiew_away: I've been talking with gmb about it on #launchpad
<ebroder> Can somebody retarget bug #368895? It should be fix released in Karmic and confirmed in Jaunty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368895 in gitosis "gitosis not working after upgrade to 9.04" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368895
<slangasek> rtg: "Duplicated ancestry" usually means: someone did a pocket copy of the source package, then the binary was uploaded, now soyuz can't figure out where to put it
<rtg> slangasek, but its a new package, isn't it?
<ogra> slangasek, even though i just made the changes to livecd-rootfs to support universe on all armel*, what do you think abotu moving imx51 and dove kernels and meta to main now ?
<mvo> slangasek: I can upload the devicekit-disks patch now (it looks fine)
<NCommander> jdstrand, can you demote linux-meta-mvl-dove? Its not supposed to be in main, and when it was promoted, it caused LP to explode since the package was still building
<ogra> NCommander, you are great in contradicting my last sentence :P
<NCommander> ogra, its just temporary
<davidm> Guys please update https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Mobile/Hardware as to what you have and do not have currently
<NCommander> ogra, the binary failed to upload because it was promoted while still building
<jdstrand> NCommander: done
<NCommander> ogra, we need to demote, build, then it can be promoted safely
<davidm> Wrong channel
<ogra> davidm, but even in this channel it should be up to date now :)
<ogra> hmm, so linux-imx51 meta is in main now, linux-image-2.6.31-100-imx51 isnt yet, can someone make that consistent ?
<sgallagh> mathiaz: ping
<mathiaz> sgallagh: hey
<sgallagh> mathiaz: Just wanted to give you a heads-up regarding SSSD 0.5.0
<mathiaz> sgallagh: ok - what's the current plan?
<sgallagh> mathiaz: We're still on track for releasing 0.5.0 on Monday. Tentatively we're planning to call the current HEAD of the upstream git repo 0.5.0 (unless testing over the weekend finds a showstopper bug)
<mathiaz> sgallagh: awesome!
<sgallagh> mathiaz: I was hoping you could tag someone to do a build from HEAD to make sure we didn't break the Debian/Ubuntu compatibility as well.
<mathiaz> sgallagh: I did a build yesterday and pushed it to a PPA
<mathiaz> sgallagh: I'll update the tree now and try again
<sgallagh> mathiaz: That would be great. Thank you very much.
<mathiaz> sgallagh: are you planning to push more patches to HEAD today?
<mathiaz> sgallagh: or is the current HEAD feature complete?
<sgallagh> mathiaz: No, my last push is intended to be complete.
<sgallagh> mathiaz: Unless we find a critical bug
<mathiaz> sgallagh: of course :)
<slangasek> ogra: I think the kernels should have been published to main to begin with, not to universe; yes, they should be moved to main ASAP - and why are you building armel out of universe at all?
<ogra> slangasek, colin didnt feel comfortable with the broken naming and asked to keep them in universe until its fully solved
<ogra> which apprently is now
<slangasek> rtg: yes, it does seem that it should be a new package, so perhaps you've hit a soyuz bug - what's the context for this error?
<ogra> though strike dove from that
<ogra> since there are apparently issues with moving them around atm
<slangasek> ogra: looks like you figured out milestoning of 417009 after all?
<ogra> yeah
<rtg> slangasek, NCommander and jdstrand seem to think they have a handle on it.
<ogra> i missed the nomination
<NCommander> jdstrand, slangasek, please don't promote the meta package just yet until it uploads please
<NCommander> slangasek, accepted as universe, build started, promoted to main, build finished. boom.
<jdstrand> fwiw I promoted to main seconds after accepting it...
<ogra> NCommander, to avoid confusion please lets add the subarch in such requests in the future instead of just saying "metapackage" :)
<ebroder> If I want to try to get an SRU for bug #328575, should I cherry-pick the patch that the Debian maintainer added, or the patch that the upstream maintainer committed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328575 in dbus "Cannot start gnome-terminal (or x-terminal-emulator) because of gconf error" [Unknown,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328575
<NCommander> jdstrand, we should probably make a safety note in ArchiveAdministration that if directly accepting a package to main, promote first, then add the override to let it enter the archive
 * ogra just noted that we two might create a total confusing scheme atm
<jefferai> Can anyone tell me how I can know which version of the kernel a particular linux-image is based on? 2.6.28-15...is this 2.6.28.[0-10]?
<rtg> jefferai, a running kernel? cat /proc/version_signature
<jefferai> rtg: that gives me 2.6.28-15.49, which isn't very useful
<jefferai> since it's *buntu specfic
<rtg> jefferai, well, it tells me a bunch. what is it that you want to know?
<jefferai> what particular linux source version it's based off of
<jefferai> 2.6.28.?
<jefferai> since ? goes from 0-10
<rtg> jefferai, yep
<ebroder> 2.6.28, but it's probably pulled most of the patches in the stable releases
<jefferai> so it'd be pretty safe to treat it as 2.6.28.10?
<NCommander> slangasek, jdstrand, ok, it uploaded. I *think* its safe to promote now to main if that's what you want to do
<ebroder> jefferai: For what purpose? Why do you care which stable release it is?
<jefferai> The reason I ask is I'm trying to get as close to it in git as possible -- I have a repeatable (cross-distro!) issue I can see when using the kernel from git sources, and I'd like to try to figure out what Debian/Ubuntu is patching that fixes the problem
<jefferai> so starting with the most alike source tree makes that much easier
<rtg> jefferai, the git repo is git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-jaunty.git
<jefferai> Ah, ok
<jefferai> Thanks...that should prove useful
<jdstrand> NCommander: if it's all the same to you, based on ogra's comments re cjwatson's concerns (which I didn't know about before, re -dove), I'd just assume leave it for now. if slangasek feels differently, that's fine, but I'd rather not guess what should happen
<ogra> jdstrand, no !
<ogra> jdstrand, the concerns are solved with these packages, thats what we worked on the last weeks :)
<jdstrand> ogra: so you are saying that both of these kernls *should* go to main, and all that is approved, etc?
<NCommander> jdstrand, I don't really care, I just want my package to publisher SOMEWHERE :-)
<ogra> jdstrand, right
<jdstrand> ogra, NCommander: ok, then I'll get them to main
<ogra> thanks :)
<jdstrand> ogra: sorry for the misunderstanding
<ogra> sorry for the bad expression
<ogra> :)
<jdstrand> :)
<NCommander> :)
<jdstrand> linux-fsl-imx51 promoted
<ogra> \o/
 * NCommander has to wait for 16:00 for his publisher run to conclude
<jdstrand> NCommander: and you are saying that linux-meta-mvl-dove is safe to go to main now, and linux-mvl-dove goes to main *before* I binary deNEW it now, correct?
<NCommander> jdstrand, if the binary and source have been accepted into universe it should be safe to bump them to main
<NCommander> jdstrand, the problem comes when the source has been accepted, then {pro|de}moted, while there are builds running
<jdstrand> that was not my question exactly
<NCommander> jdstrand, the way to work around that is to simply promote the source before accepting it
<jdstrand> NCommander: ok, so the builds are done afaict, so I'll promote
<NCommander> jdstrand, yup. should be safe to do so now since publisher isn't running
<jdstrand> linux-meta-mvl-dove promoted and then binary deNEWed
<NCommander> jdstrand, deNEWed?
<NCommander> As in binary accepted, right?
<jdstrand> NCommander: yeah, the binary hadn't been deNEWed yet
<jdstrand> NCommander: yes
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> good
 * NCommander breaths
<jdstrand> NCommander: for a brand new package, source gets deNEWed before Accepted, then the binaries are built, which have to be separately deNEWed Accepted
<NCommander> jdstrand, ah, that makes sense. When we freeze, then it hits Unapproved, then goes NEW -> Accepted
<jdstrand> linux-mvl-dove binary deNEWed
<jdstrand> (was previously promoted)
<jdstrand> NCommander: so, you good now?
<NCommander> jdstrand, yup!
<jdstrand> NCommander, ogra: great! you should see everything in main after the next run
<ogra> wonderful
<mathiaz> sgallagh: could you cut an rc1 tarball of sssd?
<mathiaz> sgallagh: it would help in finishing the packaging bits as I'm currently building from a bzr tree.
<sgallagh> mathiaz: I'd prefer not to. It doesn't seem very sensible since we're going to release the final tarball on Monday.
<sgallagh> mathiaz: At least not anything "official"
<mathiaz> sgallagh: right - if I could just get a tarball that would be helpful
<mathiaz> sgallagh: the packaging may be different between building from a src tree and from a tarball
<sgallagh> mathiaz: I can give you one and call it rc1, but like I said I don't want to tag it in git and release it on the wiki
<mathiaz> sgallagh: works for me.
<sgallagh> mathiaz: Ok, give me a few minutes and I'll send you a link
<mathiaz> sgallagh: thanks
<slangasek> NCommander, jdstrand, ogra: are all the armel kernel packages now in main that should be?
<ebroder> If I'm working on an SRU for a Python 2.6 migration bug in Jaunty (bug #368895), should I fix it to use python2.5, or 2.6?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368895 in gitosis "gitosis not working after upgrade to 9.04" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368895
<ebroder> It's known to work with 2.6
<jdstrand> I did linux-meta-mvl-dove, linux-mvl-dove, and linux-fsl-imx51
<ScottK> ebroder: Is it an application or a module?
<NCommander> jdstrand, slangasek, linux-meta-fsl-imx51 is left if no one promoted it
<ebroder> ScottK: Application
<ScottK> ebroder: Then I'd make it work with the one that involves the least invasive change.
<jdstrand> slangasek, NCommander: I can do that
<ogra> ogra@dove:~$ apt-cache show linux-image-2.6.31-100-imx51|grep -i filename
<ogra> Filename: pool/universe/l/linux-fsl-imx51/linux-image-2.6.31-100-imx51_2.6.31-100.4_armel.deb
<ogra> hmm, i dont see it in main yet
<jdstrand> slangasek, NCommander: it's already there
<NCommander> jdstrand, nifty
<ogra> meta was there long ago
<jdstrand> ogra: have to wait for the next publisher run
<ogra> ok
<NCommander> ogra, isn't the publisher run every two hours?
<ogra> 30min afaik
<jdstrand> should be at :03, aiui
<ebroder> ScottK: Ok. I think they're pretty equally invasive, so I think I'll favor upgrading to 2.6
<jdstrand> but it doesn't finish for much after that (I could be wrong on the time)
<ScottK> All things being equal, that's probably best.
<ogra> anyway, i'm off for the day
<jdstrand> ogra: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-fsl-imx51/2.6.31-100.4
<jdstrand> ogra: it says " 2.6.31-100.4
<jdstrand> PUBLISHED: Karmic pocket Release in component main and section devel"
<jdstrand> ogra: so we just need to wait for it to get to the archive
<jdstrand> ogra: I can tell you it is correct on cocoplum, so all should be good :)
<sgallagh> mathiaz: ping
<mathiaz> sgallagh: hey
<sgallagh> mathiaz: Sorry for the delay. You can find the tarball and a signature at http://fedorapeople.org/~sgallagh/
<mathiaz> sgallagh: great - thanks
<sgallagh> mathiaz: Absolutely. Good luck!
<strixv> Aptitude question: How to mark something (like ALSA 1.0.20) as "don't downgrade this back to 1.0.18" at every auto-update?
<dtchen> hold it, or pin it using apt_preferences(5), etc.
<dtchen> i presume you're referring to the userspace portion of alsa, anyhow.
<sgallagh> mathiaz: Unsurprisingly, we found (and fixed) a showstopper bug. Do you want another tarball now, or can you wait for the release on Monday?
<mathiaz> sgallagh: I don't need another tarball
<mathiaz> sgallagh: it can wait for monday
<sgallagh> mathiaz: Ok, great. Just wanted to keep you in the loop
<mathiaz> sgallagh: thanks
<NCommander> ogra, lool, anyone familiar with tasks, can anyone explain why the ubuntu-desktop task is pulling in the imx51 kernel?
<NCommander> (which is obviously not desirable for non-imx51 builds :-))
<lool> NCommander: Probably boot: * ${Kernel-Stem}-imx51 [armel]
<lool> Not sure
<NCommander> lool, what's that from?
<slangasek> NCommander: the platform seed pod
<NCommander> ah
<slangasek> which pulls in /all/ the kernel flavors, of the old name
<NCommander> I'm kinda curious on why its there since livecd-rootfs should handle kernel installation
<slangasek> so dove probably needs added, and the others removed
<NCommander> slangasek, no, we need both names, but one kernel per image
<slangasek> well, ubuntu-desktop doesn't pull in any kernels directly on amd64
<slangasek> yes, I meant "the others" that aren't imx51
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> slangasek, you feel like sponsoring the seed change?
<slangasek> or I can just whack it in from here, whichever you prefer
<Kano> hi, why is i915 always loaded even on system where this is not usefull at all?
<Kano> initramfs-tools has got a very stupid behaviour
<NCommander> slangasek, if you could, that would be appreciated as it brings us one step closer to dove images
<slangasek> NCommander: committed
<NCommander> slangasek, \o/
<NCommander> slangasek, when (or should I saw how) do the tasks then in LP change. I'm familiar with normal seed changes, but not so much w/ the platform seed
<slangasek> the tasks are updated by germinate as part of a publisher run
<NCommander> slangasek, ah, so by the end of the 17:03 publisher of run, it should be done
<NCommander> slangasek, thanks!
<slangasek> NCommander: btw, linux-headers-2.6.31-100-imx51 is uninstallable because it depends on a non-existent linux-headers-2.6.31-100
<slangasek> apw: ^^
<NCommander> ^- ogra
<NCommander> Still, we're looking on track to have some sorta image for FF
<det> What is the default version of boost in Jaunty and Intrepid ?
<slangasek> det: if by "default" you mean the packages without version numbers in them, then that would be 1.34
<ScottK> If by default, you mean version in Main, it's 1.34 in Intrepid and 1.35 in Jaunty.
#ubuntu-devel 2009-08-22
<Mm_nn> hi all
<Mm_nn> may i ask?
<Mm_nn> none could help here?
<Mm_nn> it's a very easy question....
<Ampelbein> !ask | Mm_nn
<ubottu> Mm_nn: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<Mm_nn> ok
<Mm_nn> i have to configure VPN connection, but i don't internet access. i downloaded pptp-linux_1.7.2-1_i386.deb $ NetworkManager-pptp-0.7.1.tar
<Mm_nn> i installed pptp-linux_1.7.2-1_i386.deb and everything is ok. but with NetworkManager-pptp-0.7.1.tar i have problems
<Mm_nn> when i type ./configure something happen like install, then configure: error: couldn't find pppd.h. pppd development
<Mm_nn> and i don't know what to do
<Mm_nn> anybody knows how to solve this problem?
<wgrant> Mm_nn: You want #ubuntu. This channel isn't for user support questions.
<bryce> anyone else having trouble uploading to upload.ubuntu.com?
<bryce> feh figures, *just* as I'm about to do a major upload for mesa ><
<wgrant> bryce: Indeed, poppy seems to have died on cocoplum...
<bryce> wgrant, what's poppy?
<wgrant> bryce: The FTP server.
<bryce> wgrant, any way to work around it?
<wgrant> I wonder if you can upload to ppa.launchpad.net instead... that might work.
<bryce> wgrant, yes I can
<bryce> in fact I'd uploaded the package to ppa in order to verify it builds, and given that it is, was ready to stick it in the hopper
<elmo> restarted poppy
<wgrant> I don't see why ppa.launchpad.net wouldn't accept a primary upload. Try that if you don't want to wait. The worst that can happen is it will reject it...
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> Thanks elmo.
<bryce> ah cool
<bryce> sweetness
<bryce> elmo, thanks muchly!
<nacho_> hi
<nacho_> shouldn't libvte depend on glade-ui?
<nacho_> having a look at the deps glade-ui doesn't appear
<nacho_> we are thinking on gtksourceview to add the catalog but we would like to hear about the distro packagers to know if it would mean a problem or something
<zyga> lucas: hi, I changed the wiki link of moturuby team to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Ruby
<lucas> zyga: ok, thanks
<ebroder> So who can accept milestone nominations for bugs? ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-motu? Or do they have to be ubuntu-sru/motu-sru?
<Max__> hello
#ubuntu-devel 2009-08-23
<chrisccoulson> hey stgraber - about bug 409621 - can you add a jaunty task on that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 409621 in libxklavier "The program 'gnome-settings-daemon' received an X Window System error. During on a FreeNX server suring a session." [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/409621
<stgraber> chrisccoulson: sure
<chrisccoulson> thanks:)
<stgraber> chrisccoulson: looks like you actually added one but it needed approval
<chrisccoulson> stgraber - yeah, i can't add them without approval outside of universe ;)
<spstarr> is there no reason Ubuntu/Kubuntu don't just return to Ubuntu with a ballot box in installer to choose KDE or GNOME? (much like the opensuse folks have)?
<spstarr> why create more overhead for two separate distributions unless it comes down to the LiveCD size
<Psi-Jack__> spstarr: That's pretty much what it boils down to.
<wgrant> spstarr: CD size is a deal-breaker, and asking new users which desktop to use is crazy.
<wgrant> spstarr: I believe even openSUSE recently decided to not ask.
<Psi-Jack__> wgrant: No, no, they haven't. They're sticking to it and keeping it that way. ;)
<wgrant> And there's not too much overhead having separate Kubuntu CDs.
<wgrant> Psi-Jack__: Ah, you're right. I misread the article.
<Psi-Jack__> Yeah, I know. heh.. I've been an avid opensuse user since 11.0, quite nice, but has KDE 4.2 issues still.
<spstarr> Psi-Jack__: but but.. CDs are dead ;)
<TheMuso> There are still parts of the world where DVDs are very expensive or hard to source...
<wgrant> And some computers still don't have DVD drives.
<wgrant> Computers on which Ubuntu runs fine.
<spstarr> well, if the Ubuntu installer had an option: Advanced Users [radio button]  Beginning Users [radio button]
<spstarr> it could be implied that KDE is the advanced option and GNOME is beginner
<wgrant> Which is perhaps the incorrect implication.
<spstarr> well, sure you can use GNOME for advanced stuff
<wgrant> And that option still fails to take into account that CD space is very hard to come by.
<spstarr> im assuming the LiveCD is stripped symbols/debug?
<wgrant> Yes.
<spstarr> ok
<spstarr> so you really maxed space :)
<wgrant> The time before releases is often spent trimming a hundred kilobytes off a few packages.
<spstarr> unless you reduced some gnome apps on the LiveCD f
<wgrant> Just to make things fit.
<spstarr> i guess hmm
<wgrant> KDE is never going to fit on the same CD.
<wgrant> And there's little need.
<spstarr> you could bandon LiveCD --> LiveDVD (not 4.3GB one)
<slangasek> we have DVD live ISOs.  We manage to fill those too, separately for ubuntu and kubuntu, by adding in all the things that had to be cut for a DVD
<slangasek> for a CD, I mean
<slangasek> translations, for instance
<spstarr> that does add a lot of MB :)
<wgrant> I also don't imagine that DX would like that extra option added to the installer.
<spstarr> so is there a assumption that ubuntu/kubuntu work together though?
<wgrant> spstarr: What do you mean?
<spstarr> coordinating features etc
<spstarr> where possible
<wgrant> To an extent. Remember that they live together in the same repository, so non-GNOME-specific Ubuntu changes will be in Kubuntu too.
<RAOF> To a certain extent; I am aware that kubuntu guys have been unhappy when some infrastructure gets upgraded before the KDE parts have been updated to work with it.
<spstarr> yes, but i meant Canonical having enough KDE developers for kubuntu to complement what Ubuntu gives for GNOME
<spstarr> RAOF: that's where im going...
<maco> RAOF: like network manager? ;)
<spstarr> we have NM applet in KDE coming along
 * spstarr is part of the Plasma team
<wgrant> And recently Kubuntu developers have rejected the DX team's changes to Ubuntu.
<maco> nm's backend was upgraded without waiting for the plasma network manager to be ready
<wgrant> eg. notify-osd, indicator-applet
<maco> there is an indicator applet in kubuntu
<spstarr> well, KDE 4.4 solves notification/indication (or is suppose to)
<maco> konversation was patched to use it
<spstarr> we're working with the gnome folks on that
<wgrant> maco: Ah, I didn't realise they ended up giving in.
<maco> wgrant: its only for the gnome apps to talk to while in kde though :P
<spstarr> see the following thread on that:
<maco> wgrant: a konversation patch does exist that they were using for testing though
<wgrant> maco: That's what I thought, but then you mentioned Konversation...
<wgrant> Ah.
<maco> wgrant: pending upstream's acceptance of the konversation patch, itll be in the released version
<spstarr> lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg basically
<spstarr> maco: there's no need for any of that, KDE/GNOME both are working on the updated notification spec
<maco> one of the kubuntu devs asked what the indicator applet is, and i told them its basically teh DX team trying to copy the little "i" in the kde systray
<spstarr> also systray spec
<spstarr> so afaik, why would konversation need this patch?
<maco> because the new spec's not done yet?
<spstarr> im not sure, I have not heard any updates on it
<TheMuso> I see a lot of these sort of changes that are being done in Ubuntu as things that are needed now, but upstream aren't ready to formalize yet, although things are getting close.
<spstarr> yes
<spstarr> With FDO now reorganizing finally, we should see more colaboration
<maco> gnome has no way to do the "i" thing thats in kde, so the indicator applet exists.  gnome apps cant talk to the little "i" thing (doh!) so one has to exist on kde even though its already got that feature native
<spstarr> collaboration
<maco> hopefully
<maco> cuz its really annoying having things that appear desktop-wide be inconsistent just because 1 app is from gnome
<spstarr> yes
<spstarr> Hopefully, GCDS spawns more collaborated conferences too
<spstarr> even though GNOME/KDE will never be unified, our backends can get closer
<spstarr> common things like Kwallet/gnome keychain etc
<maco> akonadi
<maco> though it ate my address book last month :(
<spstarr> I hope akonadi adds a sqlite backend so i dont need mysql ;p
<spstarr> maco: is gnome using akonadi or considering it?
<maco> there's talk of making evolution able to
<maco> would be nice for future desktop-switchers
<maco> as it is, much of my data is locked up in evolution and wont import correctly into kontact
<spstarr> maco: i dont see it as switchers but as in GNOME/KDE getting Exchange support etc
 * spstarr bites into the last grape and savours it
<spstarr> FLOSS is about choice, but giving each of our communities more shared functionality is a win for everyone
<spstarr> :)
<spstarr> i was just more curious on some other things :)
 * spstarr is seriously considering moving back to Buntu but im stuck until the radeon changes in Fedora filter to upstream fully i have Kubuntu/Ubuntu Karmic in a VirtualBox
<spstarr> I'm assuming 'ubuntu-desktop' meta package is enough to get me full GNOME within Kubuntu?
<spstarr> yep :)
<spstarr> 469 :)
<spstarr> almost 1GB will be needed
<spstarr> i need to keep track of GNOME as a KDE developer ;)
 * spstarr looks a GNOME loading from Kubuntu
<spstarr> Might I ask how will GNOME 3.0 impact Ubuntu's mission of allowing developed nations access to Open Source when they are going to require (3D)/Composite?
<Psi-Jack__> Interesting question I might add. ;)
<spstarr> indeed
<spstarr> this conflicts with Ubuntu's goals
<spstarr> now i dont know how old computers are being used in developed nations
<spstarr> so I wouldn't know if this would impact enough or not
<Psi-Jack__> Well, I can tell you, I have a lot of old systems being used at home here as a server farm. ;)
<spstarr> with X used?
 * spstarr clicks the examination mark icon and boggles.. what actually crashed to cause a problem(?!)
<spstarr> hmm
<spstarr> Sorry, the program "Xorg" closed unexpectedly
<spstarr> ORLY? im still in X :)
 * spstarr boggles
<Psi-Jack__> spstarr: Oh no. Not with X. I use X only on..... 1 system I think presently? My workstation, and I use KDE on it. ;)
<spstarr> :)
<spstarr> i wonder if Buntu/Debian will pick up the idea if deltarpms -> deltadebs
<spstarr> i dont know if there's talk but this would serious help save bandwidth
<spstarr> if its possible with deb
<TheMuso> spstarr: There is work going into something similar, don't know where its up to though.
<spstarr> oh very nice
<spstarr> very nice bug reporting system
<spstarr> i triggered bug #405667
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 405667 in gnome-keyring "gnome-keyring-daemon crashed with signal 5 in g_thread_join()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/405667
<spstarr> i like how it matches summary with the error summary in launchpad eliminating some duplication
<spstarr> oh
<spstarr> 2005 was my Ubuntu
<spstarr> Bragging rights Member since: 2005-09-29
<spstarr> :)
<spstarr> so i came into the game a year or so late :P
<melwyn> hi
<andresmujica> how can i test a symptom based apport, the ui part i mean ?
<debfx> could someone please unsubscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors from bug #310769 (package has been moved to universe)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 310769 in pidgin-otr "Cannot copy keys from authenticate window" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/310769
<Yoe> ogra: why do you guys start nbd-client without -persist, only to switch to -persist later? (re: your comment in LP#417506)
<Yoe> ogra: isn't it better to just start with -persist to begin with?
<mok0> Is it possible to pin a certain version of a package, so it's NOT sync'ed from unstable?
<tgpraveen1> hyperair: ping
<tgpraveen1> is there a reason why there is not up to date banshee ppa for jaunty? even banshee unstable ppa is 2.5 months out of date
<StevenK> mok0: At this point, syncing is manual anyway?
<hyperair> tgpraveen1: is that so?
<hyperair> what's the latest version of banshee?
<tgpraveen1> hyperair: well i dont think they released a new version
<hyperair> tgpraveen1: well then, do you have your answer?
<tgpraveen1> i think they are going to diretly release 1.6 on aug 31
<tgpraveen1> or something
<hyperair> yes
<tgpraveen1> but if it's the unstable ppa
<tgpraveen1> then shouldnt it be updated to
<hyperair> it's the *unstable* ppa, but not hte *daily* ppa
<mok0> StevenK: yes, I would like to pin the version for karmic+1
<tgpraveen1> so that it includes the new bug fixes etc
<hyperair> unfortunately not. =\
<tgpraveen1> hyperair: ok.i am on jaunty is there any ppa to get the latest or nearly latest
<hyperair> that is the latest
<tgpraveen1> ver ie a weekly or monthly or daily
<hyperair> there's a daily
<hyperair> launchpad.net/~banshee-team/+archive/banshee-daily
<tgpraveen1> hyperair: its for karmic only iirc
<hyperair> yes
<hyperair> i haven't gotten round to bringing jaunty support, sorry
<tgpraveen1> so u know of any other ppa for that?
<tgpraveen1> or do u plan to bring jaunty support for daily if it aint to difficult
<tgpraveen1> ?
<hyperair> yes, i plan to bring jaunty support
<hyperair> when i have time
<tgpraveen1> k. thx
<tgpraveen1> any approx time frame 1 week? 1 month? to give rough idea
<hyperair> tgpraveen1: i can't say. i've got a very nice and long todo list which will take some time to trim down =(
<hyperair> tgpraveen1: at least, not this week, and not next week either.
<tgpraveen1> ok. thx for ur help hyperair
<hyperair> np
<thedancingdeer> bryce: i want to run svgalib programs(c programs with vga libraries) without root permissions! how do i do that!
<hyperair> since when does svgalib require root permissions?
<thedancingdeer> hyperair: yes they do! umm, donno since when but it gives an error :"svgalib: Cannot get I/O permissions."
<hyperair> try strace the program and see what it's trying to access =\
<thedancingdeer> hyperair: didn't get you! tracing what try program is tryin 2 access?
<hyperair> hmm wait
<hyperair> it seems that svga requires root access after all, eh
<thedancingdeer> hyperair: well, its the tty, the terminal, when i do sudo ./a.out goes to the tty!
<hyperair> http://www.svgalib.org/svgalib.user.faq.html
<thedancingdeer> hyperair: yeah! exactly! so i dont want this!
<hyperair> then don't use svgalib apps
<thedancingdeer> well, i dont have this option! the thing is, i'm using this as a replacement for graphics.h to run simple c programs for students! so i dont want them to have have root permissions and mess with the system!
<thedancingdeer> hyperair: i thought there could be some way to give the user permissions to access svgalib or whatever!
<hyperair> looks like not
<mandrew> hello anyone here on the dev team of ubuntu 9.10?
<mandrew> im looking for anyone thats on the dev team of 9.10
<penguin42> Does anyone know of docs that describe the hibernate process and how everything is supposed to interact with it?
 * penguin42 has a bug where screenlock doesn't kick in on hibernate but also I'm curious if there is a way to hook other things (e.g. unmount and lock a luks disc) on hibernate
<fbond> Hi.  What document describes the official policy for what belongs in hardy, hardy-updates, hardy-security?  If I don't enable hardy-updates or hardy-security, do I get exactly what was originally released in 8.04?
<Amaranth> fbond: yes, without hardy-updates, hardy-security, hardy-backports, etc you end up with exactly what was in the original 8.04 release
<geser> fbond: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for what goes in -updates and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for what does in -security
<kees> fbond: and you absolutely do not want to do that -- Hardy (as released) contains a critical bug in the openssl library.
<kees> fbond: you want -security at the very least
<fbond> kees: Thanks, just trying to understand the policy.  I'm building a product on top of Ubuntu and need to have a release policy that sits on top of Ubuntu's and makes sense.
<fbond> Is there any way to construct a sources.list that will give me a system that contains exactly 8.04.1 or 8.04.2, etc.?
<fbond> How can I deteremine which package versions are designated for a given point release?
<kees> fbond: dunno about that.  products on top of Ubuntu should be release + -security + -updates :)
<fbond> kees: Right, but I need some kind of package version control so I can say two different release builds are "the same" i.e. contain the same package versions.
<fbond> Pulling from the live archives doesn't give me that, so I guess I need to create frozen archive mirrors that represent a particular release.
<fbond> kees: Do you agree that freezing the archive is the only way to say a particular install is precisely 8.04.2 (e.g.)?
<fbond> (In other words, there are only two things I can get from the archives directly using just sources.list: precisely 8.04 and 8.04+latest.)
<fbond> (Ignoring the difference between -security and -updates.)
<fbond> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PointReleaseProcess indicates that an archive snapshot is made for point releases.  Is this snapshot publicly accessible somewhere?
<kees> fbond: slangasek may be able to answer that, though he may not be responsive until tomorrow.
<fbond> kees: Okay, thanks.  I'll ping him.
<fbond> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PointReleaseProcess indicates that an archive snapshot is made for point releases.  Is this snapshot publicly accessible somewhere?
<andresmujica> how can i put some predefined text in the Further Information box  with apport?
<Primefalcon> quick question also for anyone out there, I do some basic C++ along with other langauges and am wondering what would be a good way to start participating in helping Ubuntu what avenue par say?
<Mez> hmm... ok, this is weird.
<Mez> Someone's hijacked a package before it's even gotten through new
<Laney> Is one of them the ITPer?
#ubuntu-devel 2010-08-23
<Chipzz> ebroder: I'm pretty sure that multiple fixes in the same SRU are NOT acceptable. the exact opposite of what you said :)
<Chipzz> ebroder: at least that makes a lot more sense than what you said
<Chipzz> you could have patch a fix one thing and patch b break another; which is exactly what we don't want in SRU's
<ebroder> Chipzz: What? Multiple fixes in the same SRU are *clearly* acceptable, and have always been. The question was whether you needed an explicit ACK from ubuntu-sru before uploading it, or whether you could use the same process as for a single fix (i.e. upload, then get ubuntu-sru's ACK)
<micahg> Chipzz: a release team member said it was fine shortly afterwards as long as each bug has the proper SRU precedures
<Chipzz> ebroder: is this documented somewhere? because like I said, trying to fix multiple issues at once sounds to me like it greatly increases the chance for regressions
<ebroder> Chipzz: I'm pretty sure there's documentation of multiple fixes on the SRU wiki page
<ebroder> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ebroder> "Fixing several bugs in one upload"
<maco> Chipzz: no more than having 3 uploads in one week...
<Chipzz> maco: you upload 3 SRU's for the same package every week? ^^ :)
<maco> Chipzz: if there are 3 patches available for it and you've got debdiffs for all 3 and SRU stuff filled out for all 3 and ACKs for all 3... no point in doing 3 separate uploads
<ebroder> Especially when you consider the 1 week minimum time in -proposed
<Chipzz> maco: IMHO there is
<maco> "ok did it start happening with tuesday's version or wednesday's?"
<maco> user: "like hell i know"
<Chipzz> maco: if there's a regression in 1 of thsoe 3 patches, you can see which SRU caused the regression
<Chipzz> maco: launchpad. archive of old debs. point user to them. :)
<maco> heh i remember writing directions for someone once of how to find old debs on lp...
<maco> those were long directions
<Chipzz> user: "oh it happened with tuesday's version"
<ebroder> Chipzz: If that sort of thing happens, then a developer can do PPA builds of each patch
<ebroder> But in the common case, I think it's much easier to track regressed behavior back to a particular patch than suggesting
<ebroder> *you're suggesting
<maco> its not like theyre going to be huge invasive patches
<maco> if they got an ACK to start with they're fairly minor
<Chipzz> ebroder: btw, the text you quoted only says what to do if there are multiple patches attached. It doesn't encourage or discourage uploading multiple patches at once eiter way
<maco> so figuring out which bit did it should be fairly trivial
<Chipzz> *either
<ebroder> Chipzz: It establishes that doing so is acceptable
<Chipzz> but I guess it being allowed is implied in some way
<Chipzz> no
<Chipzz> In order to make it easier for the SRU team to review your patch, you can additionally: ... Attach individual patches to the corresponding bug reports. If you have the fixes in bzr, it is even easier and more convenient to give a pointer to the fix ("fixed in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/.../revision/12") when fixing the bug in trunk.
<Chipzz> where does it state it's acceptable?
<Chipzz> it's implied, but not stated
<ebroder> "Just prepare all fixed bugs as described above and attach the patch/debdiff to one of them."
<ebroder> It gives a procedure for SRU'ing multiple patches at once, which makes it acceptable. If it wasn't acceptable, there wouldn't be a procedure
<Chipzz> ebroder: but it doesn't establish when it is acceptable. for example, it could be considered acceptable to SRU 2 patches for things which are very closely related (ie code- or functionality-wise)
<Chipzz> but SRU'ing 2 patches which touch totally different parts or fix totally unrelated bugs may not be
<Chipzz> anyway
<Chipzz> matter of opinion I guess, but I wouldn't advise on it
<Chipzz> but then again I don't know the workflow of the SRU team
<maco> Chipzz, ebroder:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/08/22/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t06:10
<maco> well, ebroder, you were present for it...
<maco> Chipzz: we got clarification on this from SRU team member less than 24h ago
<ebroder> grr...I need to get added back to ~ubuntu-sponsors
<maco> ebroder: poke persia
<Chipzz> maco: right, I just read that. don't personally agree, but who am I? :)
<ebroder> maco: Can you do me a favor and unsub ubuntu-sponsors from bug #622196?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622196 in epdfview (Ubuntu) "Please sync epdfview 0.1.7-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622196
<thebishop> anyone been able to link against xmlrpc-dev in the repo?
<pitti> Good morning
<ajmitch> morning pitti
<ion> hi
<ttx> Good morning !
<nigelb> morning all!
<ara> pitti, good morning
<pitti> hey ara, how are you?
<ara> pitti, good, thanks :-) slowly starting the week. yourself?
<pitti> pretty well, thanks! had a nice weekend?
<ara> yes, relaxed weekend, after a sprint week
<ara> pitti, I have a couple of questions more about apport
<ara> pitti, 1) I have a virtual package that installs a bunch of packages. The hook will be the same for all those packages but, if I want apport to know, I have to install one hook per package? or is there a way to do it differently?
<ara> pitti, 2) Adding hooks at this time of the cycle, does require a FF exception?
<pitti> ara: (1) xorg is similar; the x11-common package ships the hook, and all other packages just ship a symlink
<pitti> ara: if the packages mutually exclude each other, you have to install it to every package, I'm afraid
<pitti> ara: (2) No, apport hooks are fine; asking for FFEs for better debugging tools would be very .. bureaucratic and against the spirit of FF, I think
<ara> pitti, OK, perfect. Thanks!
<dholbach> good morning
<pitti> slangasek, cjwatson: could one of you please review my udev lucid SRU? it's a keymap update according to the SRU exceptions, but I guess it should still be reviewed
<diwic> I'm researching a sound-card problem that has been introduced in Lucid through an SRU last week. Do you know what packages were released to lucid-updates last week?
<pitti> diwic: I don't remember anythign sound related; we were in SRU freeze, so there was very little change in -updates
<pitti> diwic: do you have an affected system? check /var/log/dpkg.log perhaps?
<diwic> pitti, unfortunately I can't reproduce it here. It could have been two weeks ago as well, and it could have been permissions related
<mvo> pitti: could you please reject the compiz upload from lucid-proposed (I uploaded ~5min ago or so). it does not contain the merged bits from 15.1
<pitti> diwic: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/2.6.32-24.41 perhaps?
<pitti> but it doesn't look sound related as well
<pitti> mvo: done
<mvo> pitti: thanks
<diwic> pitti, is there a complete list somewhere of lucid-updates packages, sorted in "latest release date" order somewhere?
<pitti> diwic: not by that sort order; it's done by copy-packages.py in LP, which doesn't log that well, I think
<pitti> diwic: the proposed uploads are on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lucid-changes/2010-August/thread.html
<pitti> diwic: I'd start with trying the previous kernel; there were no alsa/pulse updates recently
<pitti> or gstreamer, etc.
<diwic> pitti, thanks for the thread, I'll go through it, it seems to have a post date of when they were moved from lucid-proposed to lucid-updates, right?
<pitti> diwic: no, it's the acceptance date of entering -proposed
<cjwatson> pitti: ok
<cjwatson> maxb: could you have a look at lp:~cjwatson/bzr-rewrite/rebase-foreign-merges?  it's based on your work in lp:~maxb/bzr-rewrite/hg-papt-rebase-foreign, but I found I needed an additional tweak
<cjwatson> I don't know if it's exactly the right way to do it
<cjwatson> (I also forget the exact set of circumstances that led up to it ... I was working on rebasing tasksel)
<jibel> diwic, for a specific package you can find when it has been pushed to -updates from the LP +publishinghistory page e.g for alsa https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+publishinghistory
<cjwatson> pitti: accepted
<pitti> cjwatson: cheers
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, why is gnome-power-manager no longer in the ubuntu-desktop package-set in maverick?
<dholbach> chrisccoulson, it's in core, maybe because ubuntu-netbook, ubuntu-desktop and ubuntustudio-desktop want it
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, that sucks. it seems that every desktop component i'm interested in is in core now :/
<nigelb> chrisccoulson: take the hint and apply for core dev ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh ;)
<cjwatson> chrisccoulson: I'll add an exception shortly
<chrisccoulson> cjwatson, thanks
<cjwatson> dholbach's analysis would put it in desktop-core, not core, so I expect it's more complicated than that
<cjwatson> it's probably buried in the huge gnome build-dependency web at the centre of everything
<nigelb> cjwatson: um, I pinged you about a bug last night, were able to look at it?
<cjwatson> nigelb: not yet (it was a Sunday night!) but it's not an urgent bug
<dholbach> cjwatson, you're right - I didn't check build-depends
<cjwatson> nigelb: I'd rather leave it the way it is than rush it
<cjwatson> that sort of change can have serious effects on the installer
<nigelb> cjwatson: clearing up the patches...
<cjwatson> I know, but still
<nigelb> cjwatson: oh, I didn't think of the side effects.  I'll skip that one for now.  There are some really old ones that we seem to have forgotten about.
<cjwatson> nigelb: (also, the semantics of debootstrap at that level need to stay the same between Debian and Ubuntu or everyone's head will explode in confusion, so I'll have to think about it with my Debian hat on)
<nigelb> cjwatson: ack, no problem.
<maxb> cjwatson: noted. Thanks for reminding me to get back to polishing that branch for submission
<cjwatson> maxb: feel free to merge from me or whatever - I'm not going to propose that branch for merging since I'm not confident I understand all of it :)
<cjwatson> maxb: (I proposed three other bzr-rewrite branches for merging today, though)
<ttx> james_w: hey -- I cannot change status on https://code.launchpad.net/~serge-hallyn/ubuntu/lucid/qemu-kvm/fix-scsi-writeback/+merge/32036, probably because it was proposed for merging into "lucid" instead of lucid-proposed... Can you mark it merged or abandoned so that it doesn't show up in the sponsorship list anymore ?
<cjwatson> nigelb: I assume you guys have a state for "patch forwarded upstream" which takes it off the "needs action" list?
<nigelb> cjwatson: yep, patch-forward-upstream or patch-forwarded-debian (which might be appropriate here)
<lool> lamont: Hey, would you mind bumping up the libnih buildd timeout on armel?  It swaps when building libnih's testsuite with -fPIE and that takes a long while to build
<lamont> sigh
<ogra> we need a webUI with a slider :)
<lool> lamont: If that makes you any happier, there is probably a similar bump on upstart which you can now remove since the code moved from upstart to libnih
<lamont> lool: there are currently no timeout overrides
<lamont> :q
<lamont> heh. that almost makes sense as an emoticon
<cjwatson> nigelb: OK, off your list now then
<nigelb> cjwatson: thank you!
<nigelb> cjwatson: Thank you!
<lool> lamont: Do you have the timeout overrides deployed already?  I wonder when to kick a retry of libnih/armel
<lamont> lool: it's a highly manual process...  and there wasn't one on upstart... how long does libnih need
<lamont> ?
<lool> lamont: I have no idea; michaelh built it locally yesterday
<lamont> I gave it, um, long.
<lool> lamont: Let's shoot for 6 hours?
<lamont> 10
<lool> lamont: thanks; giving it back
<lamont> as long as gourd doesn't get it, that is..
<lool> satinash
<lool> well maybe, sometimes this changes when the build "started" but didn't actually start
<cjwatson> chrisccoulson: fixed
<chrisccoulson> cjwatson - thanks
<ttx> james_w: thanks :)
<james_w> np
<dagger> is Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre around by any chance?
<seb128> dagger, he's cyphermox
<dagger> seb128: thanks
<cyphermox> dagger, yup
<emacs_noob> am i correct to assume that switching default window manager requires only changing "/desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager" string ?
<sladen> emacs_noob: System->Adminstration->Login Screen
<Riddell> dyfet: I don't suppose you got anywhere with python-qt4?
<dyfet> no, ncommander promised a related patch, I was not able to get it from him yet though
 * Riddell looks with pleading eyes at NCommander 
<Riddell> isn't he in China?
<jono> hey all, just an FYI, UDS is now announced: http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<jono> do go and apply for sponsorship
<micahg> can I submit a sync request if Debian's madison cache is out of date (i.e. can the AAs still do it)
<nigelb> siretart: can you 'Won't Fix' this bug as with upstream debian one? bug 72054
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 72054 in zsh (Ubuntu) "package defaults are unfriendly for users that use the 'viins' editing mode" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72054
<nigelb> (or can you ack, so I can Won't Fix it :))
<jdstrand> cjwatson: hi! do you have less than 5 minutes to help me with something regarding dpkg triggers?
<jdstrand> cjwatson: either something changed with dpkg triggers or there is a bug in dpkg/debconf/triggers
<cjwatson> micahg: yes
<cjwatson> jdstrand: maybe :) not at my laptop right now
<jdstrand> cjwatson: well, let's give it a shot. a 'not right now' or 'I don't know' is totally fine :)
<micahg> cjwatson: k, thanks
<jdstrand> cjwatson: so in ufw.config I have:
<jdstrand> if dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt 0.28-1 ; then
<jdstrand> ...
<jdstrand> in maverick at certain times, ufw.config gets called with:
<jdstrand> ufw.config configure /etc/ufw/applications.d
<jdstrand> /etc/ufw/applications.d is the directory that ufw is interested in
<jdstrand> the debconf-devel manpage doesn't mantion anything about triggers, and says it is legal to use dpkg --compare-versions in this manner
<jdstrand> cjwatson: so, I wonder if I found a bug or am doing it wrong
<jdstrand> cjwatson: oh, context is bug #618410
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 618410 in ufw (Ubuntu) "/etc/ufw/applications.d has wrong syntax" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618410
<cjwatson> you need to avoid sourcing debconf/confmodule when the postinst is called with [ "$1" = triggered ]
<jdstrand> ah
<jdstrand> I wonder why I never saw this before
<jdstrand> cool, that is a super easy fix
<jdstrand> cjwatson: thanks! :)
<cjwatson> however what you do in that case does need to be sufficient to noninteractively configure the package, iirc
<cjwatson> so you might need to be a little careful
<cjwatson> this is implied by triggers.txt in the dpkg docs plus a knowledge of how the confmodule works, but it isn't spelled out
<jdstrand> cjwatson: you mean I need to be careful when [ "$1" = triggered ]?
<cjwatson> yes
<jdstrand> right. yes, I am quite careful there to not hang or anything
<jdstrand> (or error out, etc)
<cjwatson> triggering involves calling  postinst triggered "<trigger-name> <trigger-name> ..."
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> it all makes sense now
<jdstrand> I was scratching my head a bit before I asked. this is super helpful
<cjwatson> let me just check something though
<poi77> Hi! I'm wondering, how can I use gdb for core file analysis?
<cjwatson> jdstrand: do that for now - I might get back to you, it's possible this is a bug in debconf
<jdstrand> cjwatson: thanks
<soren> slangasek: In these post-FF days, do you need a poke to get source NEW stuff done? It's only been in the queue for 11 hours, so it's perfectly cool if it's just not been done yet, I just want to be sure there's nothing more I need to do.
<soren> slangasek: (Asking you specifically because you're listed as today's AA)
<maco> heh i dont think ive ever needed a FFe before, so i'm wondering whether this process has an undocumented "poke someone on irc" step like many others
<soren> maco: I don't think it's really needed, someone just suggested it might be.
<soren> maco: I know at least jdstrand, being his usual awesome self, did a source NEW review without a poke. :)
<slangasek> soren: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze%20for%20new%20packages
<slangasek> soren: my listing as the day's AA is somewhat optimistic at this point, I'm afraid; though I should at least be able to get through binary NEW today and may have a look at source NEW as time allows
<soren> slangasek: Is that the rtfm-y sort of way of telling me that if I've done that, everything is cool, or are yo utrying to tell me I'm missing a step?
<slangasek> soren: you asked about needing an FFe; the documented process is that yes, you do, though it's generally very light
<soren> slangasek: Er.. That's not what I intended to ask, at least.
<soren> slangasek: I see that I might have been unclear.
<soren> slangasek: I filed an FFe, got it approved, and have uploaded accordingly.
<slangasek> oh :)
<slangasek> then ack :-)
<soren> slangasek: The person who approved it said it might need extra work to actually get it reviewed.
<slangasek> to answer your question: yes, if you want me to do NEW review, *I* need to be poked ;)
<soren> slangasek: Alright. Consider yourself poked. :)
<nigelb> any suggestions as to what should be done with this bug? how do I know if it ever built sucessfully bug 219280
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219280 in xen-3.2 (Ubuntu) "FTBFS in latest archive rebuild test" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219280
<lfaraone> jono: Re UDS-N, I'm getting back into school on the 7th, and won't probably know till the end of that week whether or not I'll be able to come, (ie whether my teachers have loads of plans that week, etc) and for how long. Can I apply for sponsorship late after I determine that? (It'll be no more than 5 days post-deadline)
<jono> lfaraone, sure!
<lfaraone> jono: cool, thanks!
<siretart> nigelb: I don't use viins mode myself, and I'd rather follow debian on this package. AFAIUI it's a classical "doomed if we do, doomed if we don't" issue
<nigelb> siretart: Debian closed as Won't Fix, hence I asked if you could do the same in Ubuntu.
<slangasek> mathiaz: what is the intent of this php5-sybase-dbg package?
<slangasek> mathiaz: it's not going to result in freetds being moved to universe, so if that's the only purpose, I think you should revert this
<cnd> seb128, are you up for reviewing and uploading the latest utouch-grail, utouch-geis, and utouch meta package to ubuntu?
<seb128> cnd, hi, open bugs and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<seb128> cnd, you have api changes there right?
<cnd> seb128, ok
<cnd> seb128, yeah, we do
<seb128> cnd, it's late for those we are 10 days over the freeze for such changes
<seb128> we need at least bugs to track the exceptions
<cnd> seb128, we know...
<cnd> ok
<seb128> cnd, thanks
<seb128> cnd, you have changes to the dummy package as well? which one?
<cnd> seb128, utouch is the package
<cnd> seb128, and I forgot that mtdev needs a bug fix update too
<seb128> cnd, ok, just open bugs with the changes or the vcs to sponsor
<seb128> cnd, what changes do you have to utouch? you have new sources to add to it?
<seb128> cnd, not sure why we need that one, the others one should be installed by what depends or recommends the binaries
<cnd> seb128, removal of dependency on xserver-xorg-input-gevdev in place of xserver-xorg-input-evdev
<seb128> ok
<cnd> and the addition of the geis doc package
<seb128> cnd, thanks for the work on those
<seb128> cnd, you are done with the api changes now right? ;-)
<cnd> seb128, umm, very close
<cnd> bregma was working on some last changes to geis
<cnd> but realized they wouldn't work
<cnd> so we had to stick with the current geis api for this upload
<cnd> so we can get unity with MT in
<seb128> well if you are other api change let's wait for those to sponsor updates
<cnd> seb128, the issue is that unity is ready to go with geis stuff
<seb128> if you have
<seb128> cnd, no it's not
<cnd> seb128, well, what are we considering api changes, do strict additions count?
<seb128> we are not going 2 rounds of updates
<seb128> cnd, now is over time to add pis
<seb128> to add apis
<cnd> seb128, I know, I really do
<cnd> I really don't like this either :)
<seb128> well so... ;-)
<oubiwann> cnd: what is bregma wanting to add?
<oubiwann> cnd: things that Neil absolutely has to have?
<seb128> cnd, oubiwann: you guys need to stop doing api changes really
<seb128> it's weeks late
<oubiwann> seb128: yeah, no kidding... I'm actually surprised by this info
<cnd> seb128, oubiwann, mind if we chat with bregma in #ubuntu-touch?
<seb128> ...
<oubiwann> cnd: okay, let's
<cnd> it may be that we just have to forgo some functionality in maverick
<seb128> I will let you guys deal with the changes you have to do
<seb128> I've other things to finish today as well
<seb128> let me know what you decide
<cnd> seb128, sounds good
<cnd> thanks!
<seb128> yw
<mathiaz> slangasek: the intent is to move php5-sybase out of main
<slangasek> mathiaz: what's the benefit of moving a single binary package out of main like that?
<mathiaz> slangasek: to not support the sybase functions in main anymore
<slangasek> mathiaz: from the changelog, I assumed you were trying to get freetds out of main, which this change doesn't help with
<slangasek> ah
<mathiaz> slangasek: nope - the goal was to move php5-sybase to universe
<slangasek> supporting them is a problem?
<mathiaz> slangasek: hm - I guess we're trying to decrease our support burden
<mathiaz> slangasek: I don't remember the exact reasons
<mathiaz> SpamapS: ^^ ?
<ajmitch> didn't they have troublesome aliases in that package?
<mathiaz> slangasek: SpamapS may have more clue on the reason for demoting php5-sybase
<mathiaz> ajmitch: yeah - there is something like as well
<slangasek> I'm surprised that php5-sybase involves any effort on the part of the server team at all, though - above and beyond php5 itself, that is
<slangasek> ajmitch: "troublesome"?
<ajmitch> slangasek: aliases of sybase functions to mssql, there were a few bugs about it that I saw
<slangasek> er, why are those troublesome?
<ajmitch> I think it was because they weren't all aliased, I'd need to look up the bugs to know
<slangasek> right; but the aliases themselves weren't troublesome, they're meant to be there because you really should only have one module to support both sybase and ms-sql (since they use the same libraries on the backend)
<slangasek> anyway
<slangasek> I can certainly accept this if the point is to demote php5-sybase itself, I just don't understand how that actually helps anyone
<chrisccoulson> hi kees, you there?
<lool> lamont: FYI libnih built fine; thanks
<lamont> lool: cool
<kees> chrisccoulson: yup, what's up?
<chrisccoulson> hi kees, did you say you knew how to fix crash handlers that relied on ptrace?
<chrisccoulson> the mozilla handler is actually relying on that ;)
<chrisccoulson> i've just been trying to figure out why we send empty crash reports
<kees> chrisccoulson: yes. you'll want to use prctl(), let me find the example.
<kees> chrisccoulson: the crashing program must call prctl with the pid of the debugger.
<chrisccoulson> kees - this one? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdelibs/ubuntu/annotate/head:/debian/patches/kubuntu_69_declare_debugger_pid.diff
<kees> chrisccoulson: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-July/030973.html   yup
<chrisccoulson> cool, i'll try and get this working with breakpad as well then
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<kees> cool
<SpamapS> mathiaz: in response to php5-sybase, its just less code to cover under security and bug fixes, and especially difficult to support because we do not have any access to sybase/mssql servers
<SpamapS> slangasek: ^^
<mathiaz> SpamapS: OTOH it introduces a new binary package in the archive
<mathiaz> SpamapS: and we slip a bit further away from Debian
<SpamapS> mathiaz: why can't we just manually put that binary in universe?
<slangasek> SpamapS: so I don't see that this is actually true wrt "less code to cover under security"
<slangasek> is the security team actually intending to leave security bugs in the php5 source, which is in main, unfixed because they affect php5-sybase?
<SpamapS> Right, I can't say they'd be happy about doing something like that.
<joaopinto_> where should the TERM variable be set from ? After a karmic->maverick upgrade I get a "dumb" value
<SpamapS> I just don't know that we can give the same assurances that a security fix works...
<SpamapS> "When you install software from the main component, you are assured that the software will come with security updates and that commercial technical support is available from Canonical."
<SpamapS> http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/components
<SpamapS> Maybe we do have some access to sybase/mssql servers. If we do, then I'd say its fine to keep php5-sybase in main.
<slangasek> SpamapS: we can't manually put the binary in universe because main is defined as a closure over build and runtime dependencies.  FWIW you could just have php5-dbg not depend on php5-sybase; any reason that doesn't do what you're trying to achieve? (it would certainly be less delta from Debian)
<lifeless> we could drop php :P
<slangasek> SpamapS: "commercial technical support" - but not guaranteed to be as affordable if the support involves someone having to go set up MS SQL first ;)
<lifeless> do the world a favour!
<SpamapS> lifeless: no haters please. ;)
<slangasek> lifeless: this was my thought!  But some people seem to be attached to it
<ajmitch> lifeless: don't tempt him
<SpamapS> slangasek: Agreed, its actually probably cheaper for us to simply maintain a mssql server than to maintain a large delta for this.
<lifeless> SpamapS: no emotion involved; sheer dispassionate technical assessment :P
<SpamapS> Being just 4 months out of a PHP shop.. and having recently seen the *circus* around PHP 5.4alpha, aka "the release that may never be" .. I'm less inclined to ever write another line of PHP. ;)
<slangasek> SpamapS: did the concern about support originate with the support team itself?
<SpamapS> slangasek: no, its purely something that mathiaz suggested as a possibility, and I looked into and agreed it seems like something fairly difficult to support.
<slangasek> if it did, then it's pretty clear we should move php5-sybase out of main as a matter of documentation
<slangasek> ok
<SpamapS> I'm a big fan of contraction of responsibility whenever possible, so I may have seemed over-eager at the prospect.
<slangasek> SpamapS, mathiaz: so my preferences would be: 1) revert and just accept this package in main unless one of the teams that actually get stuck with the work post-release requests its removal; 2) ship the same php5-dbg package as in Debian, but Suggest: php5-sybase instead of Depends: on it; 3) the currently proposed upload
<slangasek> SpamapS: you're not contracting others' responsibility much, and you're increasing your own maintenance burden with the added delta ;)
<SpamapS> slangasek: indeed, I think its clear now that we'd be doing a lot more than just changing a seed.
<kees> any python gurus know how to fix this?  python -c 'print u"\xc2\xb0"' | cat
<slangasek> SpamapS: btw, if you didn't notice, I am the maintainer of the freetds package in Debian - so if you disagree at all, I'm happy to recuse myself and refer this to another archive admin :)
#ubuntu-devel 2010-08-24
<cjwatson> kees: http://ewx.livejournal.com/457086.html#t3016830
 * kees hugs cjwatson 
<kees> cjwatson: what a PITA. I had everything but the null_decode bit. grr
<cjwatson> kees: python 3 is a bit less awful here
<cjwatson> thank goodness
<cjwatson> $ python3 -c 'print(str(b"\xc2\xb0", "utf-8"))'
<cjwatson> Â°
<cjwatson> $ python3 -c 'print("\u00b0")'
<cjwatson> Â°
<cjwatson> (not sure whether that first is the most idiomatic way)
<SpamapS> slangasek: god bless you for maintaining freetds. :)
<kees> cjwatson: ah, much nicer, yes.
<cjwatson> maybe better:
<cjwatson> $ python3 -c 'print(b"\xc2\xb0".decode("utf-8"))' | cat
<cjwatson> Â°
<kees> yeah, I tacked on "| cat" just to be sure :)
<cjwatson> either of those is a bytes->str conversion
<cjwatson> yeah, I realised I'd forgotten that ...
<jono> ScottK, around?
<NCommander> dyfet: I've linked you to the patch multiple times already.
<Obsidian1723> anyone here know about packaging deb files? I'm in the process of reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete but this is more of a question of, "is this the best way to do it?" than anything else. I want to find the best way to distribute images for wallpapers, fonts, document files, and also an install-setup.sh for setting up new installs. Basically the idea is to do a new Ubuntu install, add the PPA, update it
<Obsidian1723> and then the file downloads and does all of the work. Is this the best way to do that? One issue that may arise is the shell script does reqire some user input to it. Forgive me. I am not a programmer, new to packaging, etc. Just want some feedback on my method really. Right now I have an alternaitve Ubuntu ISO with a kickstart file that does a wget to.dropbox.com -O- | sh and it works, but it's crude.
<pitti> Good morning
<diwic> Good morning pitti
<dholbach> good morning
<diwic> Good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey diwic
<pitti> mr_pouit: do you know if/when it is planned to merge the xrandr-display-settings branch into xfce4-settings trunk?
<soren> Does anyone happen to know why python-sphinx 1.x is in experimental (rather than unstable/testing)?
<tumbleweed> soren: because it'll break some existing documentation
<soren> tumbleweed: And how will that ever be addressed?
<soren> tumbleweed: I mean, what's the motivation for people to update their docs?
<tumbleweed> soren: I don't know all the details, but I remember on the first experimental upload, a test was done and bugs were filed (in other packages, and in sphinx)
<soren> tumbleweed: Ok.
<tumbleweed> I assume it's now too late to get it into squeeze (even if it is ready, no idea), so it'll stay in experimental until squeeze is out the door
<soren> tumbleweed: Yeah. Hmm..
<soren> tumbleweed: Well, thanks.
<doko> soren: write a FFe for maverick?
<mr_pouit> pitti: no date yet (I'm waiting for another dev to do the ui, and there are some bugs I have to fix, but neither the other dev nor me had the time for that since july...)
<tumbleweed> soren: found them: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=python-modules-team@lists.alioth.debian.org;tag=sphinx1.0%2bdocutils0.7
<pitti> mr_pouit: ok, thanks
<smb> cjwatson, pitti Would it be possible to get Jaunty, Karmic and Lucid packages accepted into proposed? Also for Lucid all kernels package (and the previous upload) have gone into NEW. Maybe someone can refresh my memory why that is happening. The -24.40 version are superseded by -24.42 anyway. For hardy one of the uploads can also be removed. Maybe the other one as well. We are working on some issues there and need to re-upload anyways.
<pitti> I'm NEWing the lucid binaries now
<smb> pitti, Thanks. Just the newer ones. The older could go.
<pitti> yep
<pitti> smb: rejected the hardy uploads
<pitti> smb: I didn't accept the jaunty one, since I have a question in bug 611471 which didn't get an answer yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 611471 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) "Fixup vesafb initialization patch which was mistakenly dropped." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611471
<smb> I guess that binaries always went into NEW and I just forgot about that for some reason. Ok. Note the lbm upload will need the meta update when it finishes as we added some meta packages
<smb> pitti, Ok, looking
<pitti> smb: same question applies to karmic, but there the kernel fixes other things, too, so we wouldn't do an entire kernel upload for such an unimportant issue
<smb> pitti, OK, well did that because this applied to all kernels since whatever and can cause problems when unloading the module. Its probably arguable whether its important. It was more of a finding that this part was accidentally dropped and all releases can get the same fix.
<pitti> smb: unloading a module is a rather uncommon action, too, and I don't see why this bug is important for SRU, TBH
<pitti> smb: for karmic it's probalby okay because it also fixes other things, but jaunty changes just that
<smb> pitti, OK, that is arguable. I was more approaching this from a having the same code if possible point of view. But given that Jaunty is going away soon, I could live with it being rejected.
<pitti> lucid/NEW is empty now
<smb> I would add an answer to your question then you could reply to that and we then should fix up the nominations
<pitti> smb: already done
<pitti> smb: btw, this isn't fixed in maverick yet either?
<smb> pitti, It should be by now. I guess I need to go over the status bits
<pitti> thanks
<smb> pitti, So just to summarize I will accept nominations for Hardy, Karmic. Reject it for Jaunty and set Maverick to released after checking
<pitti> smb: nominations are already done; thanks for fixing the maverick state
<smb> pitti, Doh! LP is such a useful tool for distributed working. Wasn't seeing anything you did before manually refreshing... :-P
<pitti> smb: karmic kernels accepted; I'll watch the karmic/NEW queue this time
<smb> pitti, Ok, thanks a lot
<pitti> doko: thanks for the OO.o upload!
<ogra> Keybuk, !
<ogra> good to have you back !
<Keybuk> ogra: shush, you'll jinx it
<ogra> heh
<Keybuk> the engineer has replaced just about my entire telephone line, and the equipment at both my house and the exchange
<ogra> well, then it *has* to work now
<Keybuk> heh
<Keybuk> well, it has come up at 4Mb rather than 2Mb
<Keybuk> well, it's been up for 10 minutes now
<Keybuk> that's pretty much a new record
<Keybuk> the novelty will wear off in a minute and I'll go back to being emacs's bitch
<ogra> heh
<ogra> Keybuk, if you prefer to not touch emacs yet you could take a look at bug 600359 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600359 in ureadahead (Ubuntu Maverick) "ureadahead generating oom messages during boot." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600359
<ogra> (there is a patch attached)
 * ogra didnt want to upload that without a review
<zyga> should  udisks-tcp-bridge be available in udisks package?
<zyga> Attempting to use palimpsest on a remote host fails with a message saying that it failed to launch this command on the far side
<zyga> please disregard my question, found bug 568926
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568926 in gnome-disk-utility (Ubuntu) "Missing udisks-tcp-bridge binary for remote management" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568926
<Keybuk> ogra: yeah just got robbie's mail
<Keybuk> what does the patch do?
<ogra> prevent ureadahed from starting on systems that dont have enough ram to hold the cache
<Keybuk> I can't see the patch
<Keybuk> what's the problem?
<ogra> there is a linked branch
<Keybuk> the OOM killer should take out ureadahead right?
<ogra> right, it does
<ogra> and it tears down plymouth with it
<Keybuk> right
<Keybuk> so there's no problem
<Keybuk> why does it take out plymouth?!
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> the systems that runs on have only 128-256M
<Keybuk> so?
<Keybuk> ureadahead operates on the page cache
<Keybuk> it shouldn't cause any blocks to be mapped that weren't otherwise already there
<ogra> i have also seen "no space left on device" messages from udev in that case btw, it seems to fill the ram until OOM kicks in but doesnt clear up the used "diskspace" in the tmpfs
<Keybuk> unless it OOMs in tracing mode, in which case "ram to hold the cache" is irrelevant
<cnd> pitti, you took a look at the utouch MIR requests and everything looked right to you, but I see that utouch-grail still is uploaded to universe: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/utouch-grail
<Keybuk> ureadahead doesn't use any space in tmpfs
<ogra> hmm
<cnd> pitti, utouch-grail is now a dependency of xserver-xorg-input-evdev
<cnd> pitti, is there something else we need to do?
<Keybuk> I suspect you're not seeing anything different to the bug Tim recently uploaded a fix for
<Keybuk> that ureadahead uses a stupidly large tracing buffer that's per-cpu
<ogra> Keybuk, well, in any case it would be nice to not have OOM messages in dmesg on released images, what rsalveti added is just a way to prevent it from starting completely on low ram systems
<ogra> and we already use tims fix
<ogra> it helps on systems above 512M but apparently not below
<Keybuk> ureadahead should still be started on low ram systems
<ogra> might indeed be an arm or even specifically omap thing
<Keybuk> it's not putting anything into ram that wasn't already there
<ogra> why ? if it definitely hits OOM anyway
<ogra> it adds uglyness to dmesg i wouldnt like to expose in released images
<Keybuk> as I said, I suspect that's just due to the tracing buffer
<Keybuk> released images are months away yet
<ogra> heh, indeed
<Keybuk> I have a complete ureadahead rewrite coming this week/early next
<ogra> oh, ok
<Keybuk> which uses a dynamic tracing buffer, so *that* particular problem goes away
<ogra> we'll wait for that one then
<Keybuk> and I don't see any evidence you're having anything other than the tracing buffer OOM
<ogra> [    5.705688] Out of memory: kill process 180 (plymouthd) score 96 or a child
<ogra> [    5.711944] Killed process 180 (plymouthd) vsz:6200kB, anon-rss:3836kB, file-rss:720kB
<ogra> [    5.851837] init invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x201da, order=0, oom_adj=0
<ogra> (from the dmesg in the bug)
<ogra> does that deserve a separate bug ?
<cjwatson> perhaps we should be oom-adjusting plymouth
<Keybuk> actually we should probably oom-adjust ureadahead in the opposite direction
<Keybuk> in a "OMG! PLEASE KILL ME!" kind of way
<cjwatson> yes
<ogra> yeah
<Keybuk> would certainly be worth trying that patch
<Keybuk> stick "oom 14" in the ureadahead.conf
<Keybuk> and see what gets killed that time
 * ogra doubts the first sentence you wrote in your comment ... 
<Keybuk> why?
<ogra> ureadahead doesnt do any good things on SD rootfs, it usually just exits directly anyway
<Keybuk> if the OOM killer is taking out ureadahead when it's in read mode, it's still put stuff in the page cache
<Keybuk> so it's still had *some* benefit
<ogra> well, it *did* exit in lucid
<Keybuk> er, it shouldn't?  what filesystem are you using?
<ogra> ext3 on SD card
<Keybuk> I don't know of anythiing about an SD card that would prevent ureadahead from running
<ogra> and i think it used to exit 5 in that setup before
<ogra> the OOM only started showing up in maverick
<bilalakhtar> cjwatson: What happened in the discussion about better DMB meeting times?
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: do you know about it? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freej/+changelog - FTBFS
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: yes but I wasn't able to fix it
<cjwatson> bilalakhtar: nothing yet
<bilalakhtar> ok thanks cjwatson !
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: if you want to figure it out, please be my guest :)
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: my question is whether did you tried to build before sync?
<cjwatson> can't remember
<pitti> cnd: hm, I don't see any utouch* on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
<pitti> cnd: are you sure it's a dependency of a main package?
<cnd> pitti, it may not be yet
<cnd> pitti, not until xserver-xorg-input-evdev is built with the deps
<cnd> pitti, I just want to be sure everything looks ok right now
<pitti> cnd: anyway, I'll promote the lot now
<cnd> pitti, ok, mtdev, utouch-grail are the two that should be promoted right now
<cnd> utouch-gesturetest isn't a dependency of anything in main yet
<pitti> cnd: promoted those and -gesturetest
<pitti> cnd: if it doesn't become one, someone will at some point demote it back to universe
<cnd> pitti, ok, that's fine too :)
<pitti> (it's part of archive admin cleanup)
<cnd> pitti, thanks a bunch!
<pitti> cnd: no problem
<nullslash> Hello, Does anyone know how is mbr loads stage1.5 with out having  file system driver ?
<dmb> probably magic, thats my guess
<cjwatson> nullslash: normally, it's embedded between the MBR and the first partition, outside a filesystem
<cjwatson> (stage1.5 is dead, use grub2 ...)
<cjwatson> nullslash: the location is encoded as a blocklist
<nullslash> hmm
<nullslash> thanks cjohnston
<jibel> pitti,  wxwidgets2.8 2.8.10.1-0ubuntu1.2 has been published to lucid-updates. but that version breaks pgadmin3, codelite and poedit with a relocation error
<pitti> jibel: urgh - it just removes a binary from the .deb?
<pitti> jibel: so we need no-change rebuildls for those three?
<jibel> pitti, bug 610975, yes a no-op rebuild will do.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610975 in poedit (Ubuntu Maverick) "relocation error with latest wxwidgets2.8" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610975
<pitti> jibel: any idea how a mere rebuild of the package caused that abi change?
<pitti> jibel: so, want me to upload no-change rebuilds for those?
<jibel> pitti, the details are on  the debian bug 540060
<ubottu> Debian bug 540060 in libwxgtk2.8-0 "error in pgadmin3" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/540060
<jibel> pitti,  yes a no-change rebuild would fix it. The problem exists in maverick too.
<pitti> ah, binutils
<pitti> jibel: codelite and pgadmin3 have newer versions in maverick, though; they are still affected?
<pitti> jibel: sorry, this completely slipped my attention; seems ubuntu-sru didn't get subscribed to that one, done now
<jibel> pitti, I tried a few days ago, give me 1 mn
<jibel> pitti, it's fixed for codelite and pgadmin. only poedit is affected.
<pitti> jibel: ah, good; I'll upload that to maverick, too
<pitti> jibel: would you mind closing the maverick tasks of those, if you tested them?
<jibel> pitti, sure.
<ttx> pitti, jibel: not sure pgadmin3 is already fixed, see bug 610975
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610975 in poedit (Ubuntu Lucid) "relocation error with latest wxwidgets2.8" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610975
<jibel> ttx, I can't reproduce it anymore with an up to date maverick. Are you ?
<ttx> jibel: hmm, I was confused between lucid/maverick I guess
<micu> If there is a version X and I want to provide a package in my ppa that supersedes version X, but not sth. newer, I can name it Xppa1, right? But if I want to provide a newer package than a package in *another ppa* that does supersede this package but not a newer pacakge from this PPA â how would I do that?
<ttx> jibel: still affects lucid, supposedly fixed in Maverick
<micu>  I tried naming it ppa5micu1
<micu> does this work?
<pitti> micu: you can use arbitrarily long versions, so yes; depends on what the version in "another ppa" is
<micu> pitti: ok thx. so the whole version is read from the left to the right ignoring the strings?
<sladen> micu: what are the versions you want to supersede, and to keep?
<pitti> micu: nothing is ignored; it's sorted asciibetically roughly, with - and ~ being special cased
<ttx> jibel: since wxwidgets2.8 is now in lucid-updates, I guess we should push noop rebuilds in lucid-proposed now
<pitti> ttx: already at it
<sladen> micu: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
<jibel> ttx: see discussion above with pitti.
<ttx> pitti: ok cool, haven't done it before because I wasn't sure that wxwidgets2.8 would get accepted
<micu> sladen: 4:4.7.0~beta2-0ubuntu3~lucid1~ppa5 is it and I want to supersede it, but not if they provide some newer versions
<ttx> based on that "regression"
<free> pitti: hey, I've seen you've tagged the landscape-client SRU bugs as "verification-done" and removed "verification-needed", in the future is it something we can/should do ourselves?
<micu> sladen: thanks, I was searching for some document like this
<micu> pitti: ok, great, thx
<pitti> free: once you tested the .deb in proposed, please do
<free> pitti: cool, will remember for the next round
<pitti> free: as for "should", you aren't required/expected to, but of course it makes my life easier :)
<free> pitti: sure, that's was one of the goals indeed :)
<free> pitti: btw, I believe the packages are ready to be moved to -updates, is there anything else left for that?
<pitti> free: nothign except one more day; then they have reached 7 days in proposed
<pitti> thus I'll move them over tomorrow
<free> pitti: awesome, tnx!
<pitti> thanks to you, too
<pitti> jibel: all done and accepted, thanks for pointing out
<jibel> pitti, you're welcome
<Adri2000> pitti: bug #569365, do you have an opinion on what Johan says?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569365 in mountall (Ubuntu Lucid) "mountall messages are showed untranslated in Plymouth" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569365
<superm1> pitti, cjwatson, unfortunately the hash sum mismatches are happening again, 2 days in a row now. http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/mythbuntu/maverick/daily-live-20100824.log
<pitti> chrisccoulson, kees: so perhaps you can follow up to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-August/000459.html about whether it's feasible to backport security patches for chromium?
<pitti> Adri2000: looking
<kees> pitti: sure; it's not feasible. easy response. :)
<pitti> kees: .. for the records :)
<pitti> kees: it eases the decision, it might just be that rickspencer3 et al might not like it :)
<rickspencer3> kees, why is it not feasible?
<kirkland> pgraner: ping
<kirkland> pgraner: i think you were affected by https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/screen/+bug/574773 at some point ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574773 in screen (Ubuntu Lucid) "Cannot make directory '/var/run/screen': Permission denied (convert init to upstart)" [Medium,Fix committed]
<kirkland> pgraner: would you mind verifying that screen works correctly for you now on reboot, and adding a message to that bug?
<pgraner> kirkland, will do, will take a few
<kirkland> pgraner: ack, thanks so much
<pitti> Adri2000: followed up
<pitti> superm1: do we actually know whether they are due to mirror updates?
<superm1> pitti, i'm not sure how to query that?
<pitti> superm1: just whether someone has looked at it before and determined it to be a mirror update problem
<superm1> i've always heard it thrown around by slangasek and cjwatson as a locking problem
<pitti> or whether it was just a guess
<pitti> superm1: Colin fixed a locking problem the other day
<pitti> I think last week, for 10.04.1
<Adri2000> pitti: thanks
<superm1> i think one of them will have to comment if they've investigated it further
<pitti> but that was before your latest failure
<superm1> yeah, there was a successful build on 8-22
<pitti> smb: karmic kernels NEWed, FYI
<smb> ok thanks
<kees> rickspencer3: it's not feasible to backport individual security fixes from chromium because the chromium maintainer says so. :)
<rickspencer3> fair enough
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it would be far too much work (and too risky) for us to consider backporting security fixes ourselves
<chrisccoulson> and doing that for nearly 3 years of a LTS leaves us pretty much on our own if there are any issues with our packages
<pitti> also, given how brittle chromium still is these days, we also do want bug fixes
<pitti> it's amazing how often it "aw, snap"s :-(
<jdstrand> pitti: yeah I know what you mean. I was developing an apparmor profile for it (now in apparmor-profiles), so I felt kind of obligated to use it for awhile. It felt like several steps backwards
<chrisccoulson> i use several browsers all at the same time now
<chrisccoulson> it's quite difficult splitting my browsing experience between multiple browsers ;)
<jdstrand> yeah, it was hard enough with the two for the short while I did it
<chrisccoulson> this ptrace restriction is a real pain for breakpad ;)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I assume you talked to kees about it?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah. i'm doing the prctl call in the parent (which makes it work), but that is inherently racy
<chrisccoulson> in that there is nothing to stop the debugger calling ptrace before the parent calls prctl
<chrisccoulson> and trying to get threads running in signal handler-context of a crashed process to synchronize is a pain
<MrQuincle> I have a kind of general question. How many of the maintainers of Ubuntu packages are actually also maintaining the Debian ones?
<ScottK> !regression-alert wxwidgets2.8 Bug #379573
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 379573 in wxwidgets2.6 (Ubuntu Lucid) "sudo update-alternatives does not configure the default python-wxgtk in Jaunty" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/379573
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<kees> chrisccoulson: if the ptrace fails, just wait a second and try again
<ScottK> !regression-alert
<ubottu> cjwatson, jdong, pitti, slangasek, ScottK, mdz, kees, ttx, marjo, seb128: reporting regression in a stable release update; investigate severity, start an incident report, perhaps have the package blacklisted from the archive
<ScottK> I don't think it merits a blacklist, but according to the discussion in Bug #379573, there is a regression.
<kees> ScottK: I'm about to get on a plane, so I'll have to defer to others
 * ScottK doesn't know more than what's in the bug.
 * ScottK is about to have to go offline for $WORK meetings, so passes it on.
<dmart> Keybuk: hi there, do you have a moment to chat about bootchart?
<seb128> ScottK, there was 3 uploads from pitti earlier today to lucid-proposed for that no?
<seb128> "
<seb128>   * No-change upload to rebuild against current wxwidgets2.8, which
<seb128>     involuntarily changed ABI due to a binutils change (see Debian #540060
<seb128>     for details). (LP: #610975)"
<mdz> ScottK, is the regression https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pgadmin3/+bug/610975 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 540060 in libwxgtk2.8-0 "error in pgadmin3" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/540060
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610975 in poedit (Ubuntu Lucid) "relocation error with latest wxwidgets2.8" [High,Fix committed]
<ScottK> seb128: It's not clear to me from the bug.
<mdz> it looks that way to me
<ScottK> I read the last comment in the bug as "it's a regression, but we'll fix it soon so it doesn't need reporting".  That doesn't match my understanding of how it's supposed to work.
<ttx> ScottK: IMHO it should not have reached lucid-updates based on comment 10 and 13 in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxwidgets2.8/+bug/379573 ... but now that it has, we are closer to the fix with the noop rebuilds than by pulling the package of -updates, methinks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 379573 in wxwidgets2.6 (Ubuntu Lucid) "sudo update-alternatives does not configure the default python-wxgtk in Jaunty" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ScottK> ttx: Sounds reasonable.
<ttx> it all boils down to comment 14 on that bug. If it regresses, it shouldn't have been tagged verification-done. At the very least we should have coordinated the noop rebuilds in -proposed and -updates
<ScottK> ttx: It sounds to me like you're in the best position to prepare an incident report around this so we can improve in the future.
<ScottK> pitti: I also think the rebuilds should be rescored so they get built quickly and a priority for verification.
<ttx> ScottK: I can coordinate that with jibel, I think
<ScottK> ttx: Great.
<pitti> ScottK: they are all built; pgadmin3/i386 and codelite/i386 still waiting for a publisher, so it should be available in about an hour
<ScottK> Cool.
<pitti> I'll move them to -updates as soon as they get confirmation that they work
<pitti> jibel/ttx: are you in a good position to give the -proposed .debs a try?
<pitti> (you can download them from the LP build page if you need the i386 pgadmine/codelite ones; amd64 should be published for all three)
<jibel> pitti, just finished a conf call, I'm on it.
<ttx> pitti: not really, I'm away for the next hours
<pitti> jibel: rock, thank you
<jibel> ttx, I'll take care of that.
<pitti> ttx: no worries, thanks
<ttx> jibel: of the incident report ?
<jibel> ttx, testing the debs.
<ttx> jibel: ok :)
 * ttx will be back in ~2 hours
<jibel> ttx, nice try ;)
<jibel> pitti, I tested poedit from -proposed and codelite and pgadmin3 downloaded from LP and they run fine.
<jibel> pitti, is there a way to find any potentially affected packages ?
<pitti> jibel: I think "apt-cache rdepends libwxbase2.8-0" should be an upper bound
<pitti> jibel: thanks a lot for testing, I'll move them to -updates
<jibel> pitti, thank you. have a nice evening.
<savid> Hi, I'm making a python daemon that I would like to have an indicator icon for.  Ie, when the daemon is running, it should show the indicator icon.   My daemon simply uses a python loop for its main loop.  What I've seen from experimenting is that the indicator only shows when I use gtk.main(). Is there any way around this?
<ev> savid: please ask such questions in #ubuntu-app-devel .  You need to be able to process GTK events to use an indicator, so no, you'll have to use the GTK main loop.
<canesin> Hi all... I need some legal advices.. can someone help me ??
<savid> ev,  ok, thanks
<ev> sure thing
<ev> savid: mind you, you can always separate the indicator code into a child process.
<glickster> hey can anyone recommend a single symetrical encryption program for linux? where i can just use a password to encrypt a single file?
<glickster> something integrated in ubuntu would be nice
<pitti> glickster: gnupg does that in the -c mode
<pitti> i. e. "gpg -c file"
<glickster> oh sweet
<glickster> pitti, what cipher does it use?
<pitti> but the nautilus integration only works with public/private keys, not symmetric
<pitti> glickster: docs say CAST5, but you can choose it with --cipher-algo
<pitti> glickster: i. e. you could use --cipher-algo AES if you care
<canesin> Hi all... I need some legal advices.. can someone help me ??
<pitti> canesin: not quite the right place here, I'm afraid
<glickster> i played a lawyer in a play once
<pitti> canesin: but otherwise, please just ask a question, don't ask to ask
<glickster> as long as she was over 18 you should be ok
<glickster> just dont talk to the police
 * pitti just thinks seriousness level considerably dropped in this channel
<pitti> canesin: some people here have a rather good udnerstanding about FOSS software licensing, but for anything else this is the wrong place, I'm afraid
<canesin> pitti: So.. I want to fork a GPLv3 .. and don't know what references to the original project I should keep
<canesin> pitti: the project is GPL v3 and my project is GPL v3 also...
<canesin> at the moment I have only clicked in the "fork" bottom at github
<pitti> canesin: you mustn't remove any existing license header, copyright statement, and license files; otherwise you are free to change anything
<pitti> well, if you entirely remove a file, removing its copyright statements as well is fine, obviously
<canesin> rigth ... so if I edit a file, I should not change it header ?? Or I can add an "note" about it beeing modified ?
<pitti> canesin: sure (and in fact it's even encouraged in some part of the license IIRC)
<pitti> canesin: you just mustn't remove the existing copyright and pretend that it's all your's :)
<cjwatson> GPLv2 required placing notices in any modified files stating that you changed the files and giving the date.  This was often ignored, so GPLv3 merely says that the "work" must carry such notices - so a changelog file is fine
<cjwatson> GPLv3 section 5 is pretty clear really
<cjwatson> and is mostly what conscientious people were doing anyway
<pitti> I couldn't imagine touching any code without a VCS these days
<canesin> okay.. so I keep everything as it is and only append/add to change log mine modifications
<canesin> ??
<canesin> I will use a VCS, I'm using github on it
<pitti> canesin: yup
<canesin> pitti: ok, so it is easy at all.. Was just scaried ..
<canesin> pitti: the company who develops the original code is a little evil .. but they release it as GPL v3 ..  =)
<smoser> cjwatson, are you around ?
<dobey> eh, everyone is evil :)
<dobey> hey pitti :)
<cjwatson> smoser: hi
<smoser> i'm trying to deal with some grub issues in my uec images.
<smoser> during build, i trick update-grub into thinking that it successfully installs onto /dev/sda.
<smoser> the instance may come up in 1 of 3 environments
<smoser> a.) ec2, where there is no /dev/sda device
<smoser> b.) uec where /dev/sda is there and subsequent grub-install will work fine
<smoser> c.) uec where /dev/sda is not there, but /dev/vda is
<cjwatson> update-grub doesn't install to anything.  I suspect you mean grub-install
<smoser> ok, yeah.
<dobey> hrmm, if i change the names of some binary packages (in a PPA), and replace/conflict the old names, will apt know to pull the new names to update? i'm a little confused on how that works exactly.
<smoser> one way or another, right now, if I have 'update-grub' set to run on kernel install, it will fail on ec2.
<cjwatson> smoser: because it fails to probe /?
<smoser> /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot find a GRUB drive for /dev/sda1.  Check your device.map.
<smoser> is what i get right now
<smoser> just running it.
<cjwatson> is that /?
<smoser> yes
<cjwatson> so why would it think that / is /dev/sda1?
<smoser> because it is.
<smoser> ah.
<smoser> i confused you
<smoser> there is no /dev/sda
<smoser> there is a /dev/sda1
<cjwatson> blink
<smoser> (ie, in /dev/ or /proc/partitions )
<cjwatson> this is going to be hard to debug over IRC, the channel is too narrow for the amount of information that needs to be conveyed or something
<cjwatson> a good clear bug report would be better :)
<smoser> cjwatson, ok. i'll get one put together.
<smoser> i fear it will be long winded-ish, though.
<cjwatson> that's ok
<azeem> i/W 26
<kirkland> ev: ping
<bilalakhtar> Can someone get https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gpsdrive/2.10~pre4-6.dfsg-5ubuntu1/+build/1899805 rebuilt?
<Laney> have you confirmed it builds?
 * Laney mashes the button anyway
<ari-tczew> Laney: does it require a new revision like -ubuntu2?
<Laney> not for a give back
<Laney> that means there was never a binary for this (arch, version)
<hallyn> pitti: cjwatson: hey guys, i'm having a problem with multipath booting, and you are the last two to touch the changelog, so I'm hoping you have an idea for the right place to solve it :)
<jaminc> anyone here notice that the server and desktop installs generate different group IDs for the same groups and a conflicting user ID?
<hallyn> basically, if the kernel gets a 'root=UUID=xyz' boot option, the initramfs init tries to mount /dev/disk/by-uuid/xyz
<hallyn> if that happens early enough, then /dev/disk/by-uuid/xyz points to /dev/sda.  Late enough, and it points to /dev/mapper/abc.  But in between, it still points to /dev/sda1, but /dev/sda1 has been taken by multipath - the links have just not yet been updated - so the rootfs mount attempt fails
<pitti> hallyn: I have no clue about multipath, but I reasonably know the "normal" boot
<hallyn> my naive thought would be that i need to synchronize between hotplug/udev and the mount_root attempt at init.  But I don't know what would be a clean way
<kiko> pgraner, do you know the status of the 2.6.35 kernel coming in from TI?
<pgraner> kiko, haven't heard anything davidm should know
<ttx> pitti, jibel, ScottK: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IncidentReports/2010-08-24-wxwidgets2.8-SRU-breaks-other-packages -- feel free to fix/complete/suggest other recommendations
<smoser> cjwatson, i opened bug 623609
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623609 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub-pc needs some help in uec instances" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623609
<cnd> seb128, thanks for uploading utouch-geis
<cnd> do you have a minute for a quick question about it?
<seb128> cnd, np
<seb128> sure
<cnd> seb128, so I added a runtime package depends for libutouch-geis1 on libutouch-grail1 (>= 1.0.10) in because geis of the api/abi change
<cnd> is there a different method you would use?
<seb128> well if the api changes the libutouch-grail1 shlibs or .symbols should reflect that
<cnd> ahhh, ok
<seb128> I would update the libutouch-grail1 .shlibs or .symbols
<seb128> so the libutouch-geis1 would get the right version
<cnd> yeah, at first your comment didn't make sense to me
<cnd> but it just clicked
<cnd> our .symbols file for grail should be correct, so my addition was likely superfluous
<seb128> right
<cnd> and I'm not sure how that automatic debian packaging patch snuck in there
<seb128> the point of having those .symbols is not to have to deal with those depends manually
<cnd> I'll make sure to fix both issues for the next upload
<seb128> ${shlibs:Depends} will build the depends list based on the symbol you use
<cnd> yeah
<seb128> it will check what other lib and version provides thoe
<seb128> those
<seb128> cnd, thanks
<cnd> I get all the parts, I just don't remember all of them all the time yet
<cnd> :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> cnd, sorry if the comments were a bit short
<seb128> cnd, the other issues is that this autogenerated debian patch is diff done inline
<cnd> seb128, no, I think they were good, I just didn't put two and two together
<seb128> so either you didn't have a clean source or you just want that renamed to be a proper patch
<cnd> yeah
<cnd> likely it's not a clean source
<cnd> have you noticed that bzr clean-tree doesn't get rid of .o files on maverick?
<cnd> fun times...
<seb128> where would be the fun to use an unstable version if there was no bug ;-)
<cnd> yeah...
#ubuntu-devel 2010-08-25
<bcurtiswx_> hey all, im trying to upgrade empathy for lucid since upstream came out with 2.30.3, i got the new source, copied the debian direc over from the pervious one and my debuild -S says it can't find debhelper.mk among other .mk files.  anyone know what i'm doing wrong?
<bcurtiswx_> possibly a package i'm missing?
<bcurtiswx_> maco, ty
<bcurtiswx_> what might stop debdiff from working ?
<bcurtiswx_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/483168/
<persia> bcurtiswx_, That's very unexpected.  Maybe try a update of that environment, in case there's some odd skew?
<steve|m> hi.. does anybody know why the btrfs support for the alternate installer has gone in the current daily image?
<bcurtiswx_> persia, you mean upgrade the OS?
 * bcurtiswx_ is, anyway
<persia> bcurtiswx_, I hadn't meant an upgrade, just an update.  If you're mid-upgrade, then you might have caused skew that would generate that.
<bcurtiswx_> persia, I am, <crosses fingers> thx
<persia> Aha, then that's it :)  You've swapped the library under devscripts, and apt allowed this because you're doing a larger upgrade.
<bcurtiswx_> persia, I mean, i am updating.  It is maverick so <shrugs>
<bcurtiswx_> i wasn't mid update.  unless i missed something and needed a -f
<bcurtiswx_> but it should take care of it now anyways i believe if that was it
<persia> Hrm.  That's a narrower case then.  But yeah, get updated, try again, and if it's still broken, try to narrow when it breaks :)
<bcurtiswx_> maybe a --reinstall will help if this doesn't do it
 * bcurtiswx_ goes to reboot due to kernel update
<bcurtiswx_> which package is debdiff a part of?
<bcurtiswx_> ah ha
 * bcurtiswx_ learned apt-cache search
<persia> dpkg -S is also useful...
<bcurtiswx_> persia: would the fact that i'm using debuild -S on maverick trying to upgrade a lucid package cause it?
 * bcurtiswx_ still has the debdiff issue
<persia> Shouldn't.
<persia> Although, depending on the change in the build-deps, and the things that run at source-build-time, you may want to take care with building lucid source packages on maverick.
<bcurtiswx_> persia, what do you mean by take care?
<persia> For example, if your package runs something in the clean: rule (e.g. copying config.{guess,sub}), and it runs locally on your maverick system, the results may differ from that run on a lucid system, which can potentially affect how a package ends up building on the buildds.  This is rare, but it's worth being sure you know the changes in your tools (especially debhelper, CDBS if you use it, etc.)
<bcurtiswx_> Steps done so far: grab tar.gz from debian, rename .orig.tar.gz, unpack, copy debian/ from previous version, i had to remove a patch that faied because I believe its fixed in the changes to the new package,
<bcurtiswx_> i've debuild -S successfully, i've pbuilder-dist lucid successfully
<bcurtiswx_> i was trying to debdiff for the SRU request, but it doesn't want to work :(
<bcurtiswx_> pbuilder-lucid build successfull.. sorry if that was confusing
 * bcurtiswx_ will start again, maybe i'll notice something
<persia> I wouldn't.  there's no point there, really.
<persia> But in general, 1) debdiff isn't very useful for new upstream versions and 2) if you're using a tar.gz from Debian, you'd do better to do a merge, rather than a new upstream upload.
<steve|m> okay, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20100823/ is the last available build with enabled btrfs in the alternate-installer
<bcurtiswx_> persia, how would I do a merge?
<bcurtiswx_> maybe i know, but didn't know it was a merge
<persia> Workflows differ, but the idea is to start from the Debian package for the upstream version you want, and patch it to contain any useful fixes from the Ubuntu package, update the changelog to give appropriate credit for everything, and ensure that you have identified the Ubuntu delta to make it easier for the next merger.
<persia> If you use debdiffs, the interesting debdiff is typically that between the Debian version on which you're basing and your proposed version.
<persia> You may want to ask in #ubuntu-desktop for more specific instructions, as there are some additional preferred workflow actions for working on empathy.
<bcurtiswx_> persia: OK thx
<ion> The merge function in a decent VCS may automate a portion of the merge.
<persia> Indeed, although it depends on whether one can construct branches that are apparently compatible for merge.
<bcurtiswx_> persia, bug #623657
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623657 in empathy (Ubuntu) "New Upstream Release 2.30.3" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623657
<bcurtiswx_> i got debdiff to work somehow
<persia> bcurtiswx_, I can't do anything with that, but I'm glad you got debdiff to work.  That said, I find debdiffs of that nature completely useless, and always request folks to upload the new diff.gz instead (although this works less well for Format: 3.0 packages)
<persia> My recommendation would be to work with the #ubuntu-desktop folk to update their bzr branches, and seek a sponsor, perhaps by subscribing ~ubuntu-sponsors.
<bcurtiswx_> i can do that if needed :) i greatly appreciate your help, thx persia
<persia> Best of luck :)
<persia> But really, you want to find someone who *can* sponsor this, and put it in the format they prefer, rather than blindly uploading my preferred format.
<bcurtiswx_> persia: yup, i will surely need to add/remove/change something, but you've helped me greatly
<papertigers> hey does anyone know where I can find the dbus commands for rhythmbox
<RAOF> papertigers: Yup!  By installing d-feet and browsing Rhythmbox's dbus entries.
<papertigers> RAOF: Thanks!
<bcurtiswx_> g'nite all
<papertigers> RAOF: gonna release and android app to control rhythmbox :)
<RAOF> papertigers: I'd look into mpris, then.
<RAOF> That'll cover all the major players in Ubuntu.
<papertigers> RAOF: but then how could I connect to it? If I make a rhythmbox plugin I can create a socket for local wifi control
<RAOF> Hm.  There's a control protocolâ¦ DACP (and Apple's extensions to it which drive iTunes)?  From memory there's a GSoC implementing it in Rhythmbox.
<papertigers> RAOF: hmm wonder if that would be better
<papertigers> RAOF: looks like a guy is working on DACP for rhythmbox and has applied to get a patch approved
<RAOF> There's your winner.
<papertigers> RAOF: well its a waiting game for it to get included
<johanbr> papertigers, you could also use DLNA
<johanbr> http://coherence.beebits.net/wiki/RhythmBox
<papertigers> johanbr: thanks Ill look at this
<papertigers> johanbr: I am just playing around right now, but do you know if in my plugin I create a socket
<papertigers> will it stay open as long as rhythmbox is open
<johanbr> I believe so, not sure though
<cjwatson> steve|m: btrfs support hasn't been deliberately removed.  file a bug on the debian-installer package in Ubuntu with your logs
<cjwatson> (please)
<idlogin> how would one resize and ext4 partition? is it possible live? for a non-lvm system?
<idlogin> by live i mean online while i'm running it
<RAOF> That's not really a question for #ubuntu-devel, and you can increase (but not decrese) the size of an ext4 filesystem live, but not (easily?) the partition it's on.
<pitti> Good morning
<micahg> good morning pitti :)
<pitti> hey micahg, how are you?
<micahg> pitti: good, and you
<pitti> I'm great, thanks
<micahg> pitti: BTW, I took care of the ubufox upload for you and asac
<pitti> ah, thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<ion> hi
<ari-tczew> pitti: please upload package also to jaunty and karmic - bug 393923
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 393923 in agg (Debian) "agg_rasterizer_cells_aa.h missing #includes <limits.h> and <stdlib.h> so it doesn't compile on new GCC versions" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393923
<pitti> ari-tczew: see my question on the bug -- this doesn't look like the kind of thing that we should fix in jaunty now IMHO
<ari-tczew> pitti: listen, someone reported the bug, give the patch for fix, so someone is waiting for resolve problem. I spent time on this, so I look forward for upload.
<persia> Still needs a rationale on the bug, regardless of the final decision.
<pitti> we have an SRU policy for a reason, though
<pitti> we already stretch the scope of SRUs quite high for lucid, with it being an LTS and still pretty fresh and all that
<pitti> but for jaunty we don't get a lot of testing any more, so chances of getting regression reports are very close to 0
<pitti> and this isn't a data loss/security/etc. class of thing
<ari-tczew> pitti: I tested package and it works
<ari-tczew> pitti: what about karmic? it's freshly than jaunty
<pitti> ari-tczew: I can be talked into karmic, although it's also outside the SRU criteria
<pitti> and once LP starts working again for me, I'll continue SRU stuff
<ari-tczew> pitti: do you know, that this is funny?
<pitti> seems it broke for me some minutes ago, pages are utterly distorted
<wgrant> pitti: edge update broke CSS. Fix in progress.
<wgrant> Should be fixed in a few minutes, otherwise use production.
<pitti> wgrant: hm, but I disabled edge redirect already
 * pitti tries again
<pitti> wgrant: thanks
<pitti> ah, production works now
<geser> how many +1 does a MIR need? one or more?
<wgrant> production should never have been broken.
<pitti> geser: one
<geser> then what's the next step for bug 614000?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 614000 in ant1.7 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ant1.7, ant1.7-optional (source: ant1.7)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614000
<ari-tczew> pitti: more important developers want to see bug fixing, so I'm doing this. when I prepare patches, then I got information - sorry, SRU is not necessary. this is comedy.
<ari-tczew> and again I wasted my time
<pitti> ari-tczew: no, it's not comedy, it's how stuff works, sorry
<Chipzz> ari-tczew: there's an SRU policy for good reasons
<pitti> ari-tczew: there's always a nonzero regression potential, just look at the wxwidgets disaster from yesterday
<pitti> which was a no-change rebuild
<wgrant> pitti: Fixed now.
<pitti> those rules weren't made out of thin air, we learned them the really hard way
<pitti> wgrant: cheers
<pitti> ari-tczew: and your work wasn't wasted -- after all, it does get fixed at least in lucid
<ari-tczew> pitti: wow! but I spent 4 hours for adjusting patch to karmic and jaunty
<Chipzz> pitti: otoh, if it was broken before, a patch to fix it can hardly make it worse ;)
<pitti> Chipzz: well, that's pretty much what I was asking for -- a rationale why it needs to/should be fixed in jaunty/karmic
<Chipzz> ari-tczew: 4 hours? seriously? how does adding 2 lines to file take up 4 hours? :)
<pitti> Chipzz: it's not at all clear to me that the package is entirely broken -- it might work for other use cases than the one in the bug
<persia> Chipzz, But the "package is completely broken" rationale for SRU was dropped in the most recent policy update (likely due to painful experience).
<pitti> and I can't know the details of all packages
<pitti> so if someone explains that the jaunty package is totally useless, then the regression potential is 0
<ari-tczew> Chipzz: you didn't working on it, so please hold on - saying culturally
<maco> persia: does "it ftbfs anyway" still count?
 * pitti points out that he didn't say "no way" in the bug, but "why?"
<Chipzz> maco: except it doesn't (I think)?
<maco> Chipzz: im just asking for future reference, not related to your thing
<persia> maco, Last time I read the page (a rew minutes ago), FTBFS was listed, but "completely broken" was gone.  I haven't been following SRU policy changes closely though.
<Chipzz> maco: ari-tczew' thing, not mine :)
 * persia cheers pitti for requesting rationales, so people *understand* why they get updates.
<ari-tczew> pitti: could you update SRU policy in wiki including text: ok, please working on bugs, this is very important, but your patch won't be accepted, because SRU is unecessary
<ari-tczew> pitti: enough reason for me is someone is waiting for this
<ari-tczew> and you can see this in bug
<Chipzz> ari-tczew: why are they waiting for a fix in an ubuntu release that's neither LTS  nor up to date?
<pitti> ari-tczew: the SRU policy already points out very clearly when to do an SRU; also, please read what I just said
<maco> persia: now i wonder how "completely broken" was defined, because ftbfs was my definition
<ari-tczew> Chipzz: I don't know. I only want help.
<Laney> while we're on SRUs, could 539814 be sponsored/accepted? :)
<pitti> ari-tczew: I asked for a rationale and a regression potential analysis on the bug, I didn't say "no" outright
<pitti> maco: no, FTBFS is far from "completely broken" -- the archive will have the previous binaries
<directhex> i don't think that's ever useful. if it can't be built, how can people exercise their right to modify it?
<maco> pitti: mmm i was thinking "if it doesnt even build, you cant make it any worse"
<pitti> maco: oh, sure you can :)
<pitti> directhex: well, obviously it is a problem
<pitti> but saying that fixing an FTBFS will never cause regressions is wrong
<persia> maco, Completely broken used to include stuff like fails-to-run, due to incomplete library transition, etc.  I think the lucid-supportibility spec just removed all the binary packages we didn't know about it, so the number of fails-to-work packages ought be fairly small now.
<directhex> anyone in the mood for a security fix? hot off the presses
<ari-tczew> pitti: okay, well done. you fine demotivated me. I won't prepare any SRU anymore. it's non-sense.
<pitti> ari-tczew: frankly, I don't quite understand your reaction
<pitti> ari-tczew: but if you can't give me an answer about an SRU rationale, but instead just act grumpy, I can't help it, I'm afraid :/
<pitti> I can't know the details about all 25000 packages in the archive, so the SRU team needs to have information like that
<ari-tczew> pitti: because this is frustrated, when I know that patch works and won't go.
<pitti> ari-tczew: it's in your hands to make it go
<diwic> ari-tczew, the bureaucracy around making a patch go in can be frustrating sometimes, I've been there a few times myself
<diwic> ari-tczew, but people on the other side have been burned many times by letting patches in that cause regressions, and so they come up with rules which are meant to minimize that risk
<ari-tczew> diwic: ok, so let's don't making any SRUs. risk will be zero !
<diwic> ari-tczew, those rules are not perfect and probably won't ever be.
<seb128> there is plenty of SRU done each cycles
<seb128> it's not hard to do those, you just need to justify the need for change and describe how to test
<pitti> if you can't explain why an SRU should be done, and what can possibly go wrong, we won't do it
<seb128> it's a reasonable requirement
<diwic> ari-tczew, so if you were in pitti's shoes right now, what can you tell him about your patch that makes him reasonably sure that your patch won't cause regressions?
<ari-tczew> pitti: bug updated. bug 393923
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 393923 in agg (Debian) "agg_rasterizer_cells_aa.h missing #includes <limits.h> and <stdlib.h> so it doesn't compile on new GCC versions" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393923
<dholbach> maybe we could put a few good sru examples on the sru wiki page to illustrate what's required?
<pitti> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Examples
<dholbach> pitti, oops :)
<vish> dholbach: we have two examples already :)
<vish> pff, pitti is too fast ;p
<mvo> bdmurray: could you please add glatzor to the group so that he can manipulate bugs in aptdaemon? he is upstream, iirc he just needs to be added to the bug-control tream, right?
<ari-tczew> pitti: so what's the final conclusion from your comment? yes or not?
<pitti> ari-tczew: still waiting for an answer to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/agg/+bug/393923/comments/12
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 393923 in kdeedu (Ubuntu) "KTouch lecture contains a swear word" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<maco> hahaha i remember that one
 * pitti glares at ubottu -- "this is not the bug you are looking for"
<maco> yeah....
<maco> i reported a "ktouch lessons include things that arent really words" one before too...i think its not allocating space for the null byte.... should fix that at some point
<ari-tczew> by the way - why developers don't respect rules with merging? current apt update -   * merged from debian/unstable
<ari-tczew> where is rest?
<dholbach> mvo, ^ you're fired!
<baptistemm> hi there
<baptistemm> I submitted a patch for lucid-proposed, and the ia64 build fails https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/collectd/4.8.2-1ubuntu0.1/+build/1933596 . is it something related to my patch ?
<persia> baptistemm, Hey.  I think you'll find there was some toolchain change between http://launchpadlibrarian.net/38028946/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-ia64.collectd_4.8.2-1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz and http://launchpadlibrarian.net/54344381/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-ia64.collectd_4.8.2-1ubuntu0.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz : you can disable -fstack-protector globally for the build on ia64, *OR* (better) track down the toolchain change, and troubleshoot how to fix it (this
<persia> may require ia64 hardware)
<baptistemm> hi persia
<ari-tczew> pitti: answered in agg bug
<vish> dholbach:  before you do that, can we first take some tissue samples to clone mvo first? ;)
<ari-tczew> vish: did you mean issue instead tissue?
<vish> ari-tczew: nah, real flesh-n-blood , gives us better clone quality! ;p
<ari-tczew> vish: sorry, I'm not in the context
<vish> ari-tczew: nvm, it was just a follow up to dholbach's comment.
 * vish silent mode :)
<ara> pitti, hi
<ara> pitti, how can I bypass the "not a genuine ubuntu package" when testing an apport hook?
<ara> (I promise to not filing the bug) :D
<pitti> ara: set report['CrashDb'] = 'ubuntu' in your package hook (temporarily)
<pitti> ara: sorry, 'CrashDB'
<ara> pitti, thanks!
<pitti> (upper case 'B')
<ogra> cjwatson, hmm, your dropping of -marm in busybox seems to have removed the ability to reboot from initrd prompt
<cjwatson> ogra: if you can debug it, I'd welcome it.  feel free to put -marm back if need be, but be sure to add a detailed changelog comment so that we know what to look for the next time we try to drop that delta
<cjwatson> the changelog entry just said "Using -marm due to gcc thumb2 compile issue", and the linked bug wasn't much more informative.  There's a serious problem with changelog entries like that ...
<ogra> at least i suspect its busybox, the other explanation i would have would be a kernel change, but we see it on both omap3 and 4 and they are different kernel versions
<ari-tczew> pitti: around?
<mathiaz> SpamapS: hi!
<mathiaz> SpamapS: what was the outcome of the php5-sybase discussion?
<Adri2000> doko: in bug #623267, are you saying that bug #570147 got fixed? also, I'm not sure of the link in the bug description: it points to a french forum thread, not to an ooo bug report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623267 in openoffice.org-l10n (Ubuntu Lucid) "backport OOo 3.2.1 for lucid" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623267
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570147 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) "[ooo-build] [3.2.1] lucid: no localization for find & replace dialog in writer" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570147
<doko> Adri2000: yes, that should be the bug from the forum
<ScottK> doko: python/python3-defaults are done.
<Adri2000> doko:  the forum thread lists some issues with OOo in lucid, but it doesn't specifically talk about the translation issue and doesn't seem to mention it at all actually
<doko> Adri2000: it's one of the issues afaiu
<ScottK> pitti: It looks like codeblocks should be on the rebuild list for the wx issue: See bug 623989
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623989 in wxwidgets2.8 (Ubuntu) "Codeblocks won't start after an upgrade to libwxbase2.8.10.1-0ubuntu1.2 " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623989
<ScottK> ttx, jibel: ^^^
<jibel> ScottK, I'm testing codeblocks in lucid.
<ScottK> jibel: Would you please comment in the bug and reassign it to codeblocks then.
<jibel> ScottK, sure.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Daviey> cjwatson, Has "d-i apt-setup/local0/repository" changed?  Adding a local repo, doesn't seem to working anymore :(
<Daviey> or am i be a numnut?
<pitti> ari-tczew: hello (sorry, in meeting, but I responded to the bug some minutes ago)
<pitti> ScottK, jibel: ah, want me to do a rebuild then?
<cjwatson> Daviey: not aware of any changes there
<Daviey> cjwatson, , thanks
<ScottK> pitti: I'd say let's wait to hear the results of jibel's testing, but probably.
<pitti> ... and this time with a Breaks: (thanks slangasek for pointing out)
<jibel> ScottK, I cannot reproduce with wxwidget in -release or -updates and codeblocks has not changed since the release of lucid
<ScottK> jibel: Right, but wx has.
<ScottK> jibel: You're sure it was using 2.8 when you were testing, right?
 * jibel checking again.
<ari-tczew> pitti: OK, tested, works fine. so jaunty won't go?
<Daviey> cjwatson, Scrub what i said.. is working ;)
<ari-tczew> pitti: so in current SRU policy, ubuntu-sru is deprecated?
<jibel> ScottK, I really cannot reproduce.  tests done with wxwidget2.8 in lucid and -proposed, codeblocks without then with codeblocks-contrib.  Could it be a specific codeblocks plugin ?
<ScottK> jibel: It may be arch specific.  I'd ask the reporter what arch they are using.
<pitti> ari-tczew: deprecated how? (it's not -- it's the team who reviews/handles all SRUs)
<ari-tczew> pitti: because now sponsors are uploading SRU patches. then is test and if it's fine, then you are moving to -updates. I don't see work for ubuntu-sru.
<pitti> while ~ubuntu-sru also has been sponsoring packages, it's not their main role; that is to review the queues and patches, follow up on discussions, regressions and coordinate moving to -updates
<jdstrand> mvo: hi!
<mvo> hey jdstrand
<jdstrand> mvo: I wanted to bring your attention to bug #614589
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 614589 in apt (Ubuntu) "[regression] apt-cache madison no longer can find some source packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614589
<jdstrand> mvo: it is fairly annoying, and it breaks several scripts the security team has. I imagine it affects others too. It isn't a 'drop everything' and fix now bug cause I know you are busy and we can work around it. but I wanted to make sure you saw it
<SpamapS> mathiaz: php5-sybase stays. As slangasek pointed out, its probably easier for us to find a sybase server if we ever need one, than to maintain a massive delta w/ debian. ;)
<mathiaz> SpamapS: ok - thanks for the summary
<mvo> jdstrand: thanks, I have a look
<jdstrand> mvo: thanks! :) did you have a nice vacation?
<mvo> jdstrand: yes, *very* nice. just ended too early ;)
<jdstrand> mvo: glad you enjoyed it, and glad to have you back, even if it was earlier than you might have liked :)
<mvo> jdstrand: :)
<mterry> pitti, how bad are multiple shared libraries in one binary package?  I'm looking at a MIR that has such, but not sure how much of a stickler about it I should be.
<Chipaca> mvo: ping
<mvo> Chipaca: hello
<pitti> mterry: at least bad enough to require further justification
<pitti> mterry: we have some special cases, if they all share the exact same SONAME and are always bumped together, it's ok
<pitti> mterry: but if it's different SONAMEs, then it's a major bug
<mterry> pitti, like, 4/5 are SONAME 2, one is SONAME 1
<mterry> pitti, apparently the MIR submitter talked to Debian maintainers and they weren't sold on unbundling.  Will try to find out why
<pitti> mterry: then that package deserves to get shot in the head and removed from the archive; definitively a MIR blocker
<pitti> (IMO)
<mterry> pitti, OK, good.  I don't like wielding MIR blockage power, so good to get confirmation that bundled libs suck
<pitti> it's a disaster waiting to happen whenever the ABI changes
<ScottK> jibel: Thanks for following up on codeblocks.
<papertigers> Hey guys I am writing an android app to control rhythmbox, I have a rb plugin i wrote that starts the server.  Anyone know if I can get a list of all artists from dbus ?
<mathiaz> james_w: hi!
<mathiaz> james_w: is there a reason why the puppet pkg branch hasn't been imported yet?
<mathiaz> james_w: there is a new version in the archive, however puppet doesn't show up on http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/#stats
<mathiaz> james_w: and the puppet pkg branch is not up-to-date
<james_w> mathiaz: hmm, it looks like lp is refusing to tell us about that new version
<mathiaz> james_w: that's ... not nice of LP :/
<fta> micahg, hi, you missed a bunch of emails from me in the last few hours. someone apparently decided it was a good idea to make a package add the hostname to 127.0.0.1 in /etc/hosts, leading my SMTP servers to send emails with localhost.localdomain as FROM (in the SMTP envelope). this is plain wrong
<fta> not sure which package did that though
<Chipzz> papertigers: this is not the channel for these kind of questions, pls refer to the topic
<james_w> mathiaz: I don't know what happened, but somehow we missed the creation of the publication record. This shouldn't happen unless LP's clock jumps backwards.
<james_w> mathiaz: I'm going to make it more robust against that, and ask it to import puppet now. Please let me know if you see this again and I will look again for ways we can miss the publication of something.
<mathiaz> james_w: great - thanks for following up!
<micahg> ari-tcz
<micahg> oops
<ari-tczew> micahg: hm?
<micahg> ari-tczew: sorry, wrong field
<ari-tczew> yhym ok
<james_w> mathiaz: now up to date
<lanoxx> mvo, are you there?
<mvo> lanoxx: yes
<lanoxx> mvo, could you add "Christian Klein" to the commit messages of my xdg fixes? after all parts of my patch are from his branch
<lanoxx> mvo, or do you think thats unneccessary given the size of the patch?
<mvo> lanoxx: thanks, I will do that
<mvo> lanoxx: its always good to give credit, even if its a small change
<mvo> lanoxx: so thanks for this reminder :)
<mvo>   * updated to use xdg config dirs (thanks to Christian Klein)
<mvo> ^--- good?
<lanoxx> mvo, yeah i thought so, and you can drop his branch after wards, or mark it was obsolete, i didnt have the right to do that
<lanoxx> sure
<vlada> hi ppl. I might be at the wrong place, but counting on you to redirect me ;) How can I debug indicator applet thing. There is a bug nobody pays much attention, so I'm guessing not many experience it. I'd like to redirect debug output to terminal. Is there a way to do that?
<lanoxx> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~cristiklein/update-notifier/use-xdg-folders/+merge/15038 <-- currently the branch is still set to: needs review, but i cant change that
<mvo> lanoxx: I set it to "merged" now
<vlada> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-applet/+bug/621838 to be precise!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 621838 in indicator-applet (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout part of indicator applet disappears" [Undecided,New]
<SpamapS> vlada: you can attach the debugger (gdb) to any running process, though in Maverick you'll need to either be root or enable a sysctl to do that.
<lanoxx> mvo, great, im looking forward to write some more xdg-patches, thank for taking the time and mergin my patches :)
<mvo> lanoxx: thank you for writing them in the first place :)
<lanoxx> mvo, not at all, is this going to land in maverick?
<dobey> any python packaging gurus around?
<dobey> pysupport seems to only be setting up the stuff in /usr/share/pyshared for me, in a package that also has a .so in /usr/lib/pyshared :-/
<dobey> wondering what i'm doing wrong (since pycairo seems to work ok)
<mvo> lanoxx: yes
<SpamapS> dobey: I believe pysupport is deprecated
<SpamapS> but I could be confusing it with pycentral
<SpamapS> or dh_python
<dobey> pycentral is deprecated afaik
<vlada> SpamapS, hi. and hmmm. Applet doesn't really crash. Not sure my gdb skills are that good to trace running process execution.
<jcastro> vlada: find someone in #ayatana, they can help you with indicators
<dobey> which is why i'm trying to move stuff over to pysupport
<jcastro> vlada: I think there's a debugging tool somewhere but they will know for sure
<SpamapS> vlada: gdb -p 12345      where 12345 is the pid of the process running your applet.
<SpamapS> dobey: I believe there's a new kid in town, dh_python2, that is supposed to be "the one ring to bind them all"
<SpamapS> dobey: but, I'm a python packaging novice
<lamont> doko: pycentral or pysupport is deprecated?
<SpamapS> dobey: #debian-python on OFTC is full of python packaging wizards.
<vlada> great! thanks both of you
<doko> lamont: dh_python[23] is the future
<lamont> doko: meaning both support and central are to be shunned?
<dobey> boo
<doko> lamont: I only can speak for one ...
<SpamapS> vlada: if you haven't also tried 'strace' and 'ltrace', they're useful when you're not quite sure what it is the thing is doing.
<dobey> and i was recently told to use pysupport instead of pycentral
<dobey> but i somehow doubt that just switching to use dh_python2 is going to fix my problem
<SpamapS> dobey: I also made a package about 3 months ago and used pysupport, without knowing that dy_python2 existed.
<SpamapS> dobey: actually I'm using pysupport and my .so is copied into the right place just fine
<dobey> my problem is not that the package doesn't include the files, it's that pysupport is only creating symlinks for the .py files during postinst
<dobey> (this is an automake based package, and not setup.py)
<dobey> but i'm at a bit of a loss as to why
<SpamapS> ah.. setup.py seems to be the generally accepted way to distribute/package python apps/libs .. never would have thought to use pure automake.
<dobey> well it's a c/gtk+ based lib, with python/mono bindings
<dobey> (and if it were up to me, nobody would use setup.py) :)
<SpamapS> Heh.. the gearman-interface package builds python libs from swig interface files.. it also builds a setup.py ;)
<SpamapS> setup.py is just a nice uniform way to distribute apps.. just like automake..
<dobey> i know what setup.py does, is capable of, etc...
<SpamapS> But you don't like it?
<dobey> no
<SpamapS> Got a grudge against pypi?
<dobey> no
<SpamapS> alrighty then... err.. how 'bout them Meerkats?
<dobey> it's fine for shipping simple python scripts and modules
<dobey> it sucks for real apps that have config files, data, etc...
<dobey> and i don't have time to fix it
<dobey> but that doesn't tell me why pysupport isn't working as expected
<SpamapS> dobey: maybe it relies too heavily on setup.py .. dh_python2 seems to have a lot more options.
<highvoltage> Anyone have some trouble booting dailies? Edubuntu doesn't boot properly currently
<cjwatson> highvoltage: have you checked the build logs to see whether it's actually building?  I've seen a lot of build failure mails from Edubuntu, but not really looked into the reasons
<highvoltage> cjwatson: I did indeed, nothing stands out
<cjwatson> doko: is it safe to convert to dh_python2 right now in unstable?  looking for some sort of policy guidance to tell me whether I've got it all right ...
<highvoltage> the previous build problems earlier this week has been fixed at least
<highvoltage> cjwatson: btw, it might be nice if those build logs could be gzipped when they are written, I'm just saying :)
<dobey> SpamapS: i don't think that's true
<highvoltage> cjwatson: hmm, I guess this could be a problem?
<highvoltage> ls: cannot access /build/chroot-livecd/usr/sbin/mkinitrd.livecd: No such file or directory
<SpamapS> dobey: bummer. ;)
<cjwatson> highvoltage: url for that log?
<highvoltage> cjwatson: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/maverick/edubuntu-dvd/20100825/livecd-20100825-i386.out
<cjwatson> (the build log publishing is held together with wet string, I don't want to stretch it too much!)
<highvoltage> heh :)
<cjwatson> I don't think that message is a problem.  in what way does it fail to boot?
<highvoltage> I get busybox
<cjwatson> is this on a live-style boot?
<highvoltage> yes
<cjwatson> ok, I'll see if it reproduces on a desktop CD
<highvoltage> I'll try to quiet plymouth or check for logs from inside busybox in the meantime
<highvoltage> well what do you know... with plymouth disabled it boots just fine
<doko> cjwatson: for packages managed by pycentral, it should be safe. the location doesn't change
<highvoltage> cjwatson: it seems like it's intermittent, seems to boot fine now with plymouth enabled
 * highvoltage guesses that pybootchartgui is something new
#ubuntu-devel 2010-08-26
<jturek> Anybody running Maverick having their wireless LED indicator on their laptop flash everytime there is network activity (not normal)
<jturek> I'd open a bug for maverick, but i have no clue how to describe it ;)
<kklimonda> why isn't it normal? it may be distracting at first but I'm not sure what do you mean by normal - I thought it was doing that for a long time.
<alex88> !roadmap
<alex88> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/LightScreenshot.png what means start windows? maybe i havent' understand what's light for?
<pitti> Good morning
<smb> pitti, Morning, I just saw that the Jaunty kernel still is in the queue. As we agreed on not wanting that for Jaunty, can you reject it? Also could you sru in lucid-lbm -24.20 (-24.19 got superseded and can be removed/rejected)
<pitti> smb: did the two rejections; I actually had a question about the lbm stuff
<smb> ok
<smb> was the question in one of the bug reports?
<pitti> smb: it seems that this renames the -wireless package to -compat-wireless? won't that create problems on upgrade?
<pitti> smb: no, not yet; I tried to understand the debdiffs
<smb> Ok, yes it renames the binary packages but usually people should use the meta packages and those are kept in a way to make the upgrade
<pitti> but why?
<pitti> from what I can see, it adds a new -wwan package, which is fine (as per discussion in the gobi bug)
<pitti> but I don't see a rationale for renaming the -wireless one
<smb> So linux-backports-modules-2.6.32[-24]-generic points to the new names
<smb> The rationale is probably that this more matches what it comes from. And touched because now there is a compat-wireless based on .35 and .34 in parallel
<pitti> ah, right, it also introduces yet another linux-backports-modules-compat-wireless-2.6.35-2.6.32-24-generic-pae, indeed
<pitti> smb: but then the conflicts seem wrong
<pitti> -Package: linux-backports-modules-wireless-2.6.32-24-generic
<pitti> +Package: linux-backports-modules-compat-wireless-2.6.34-2.6.32-24-generic
<pitti> [...]
<pitti> +Conflicts: linux-backports-modules-compat-wireless-2.6.35-2.6.32-24-generic
<pitti> smb: ^ it shoudln't conflict to itself, but it should conflicts:/replaces: the old name (modules-wireless-2.6.32-24)
<StevenK> pitti: It doesn't conflict with itself
<pitti> otherwise you'll get a file overwrite error
<smb> Doesn't that mean that you cannot have a .35 installed at the same time you have a .34?
<pitti> StevenK: ah, sorry
<pitti> smb: right, sorry
<StevenK> pitti: It's very close :-)
<smb> and confusing i agree
<pitti> smb: so, the new name then additionally needs to conflicts: with teh old name, and also replaces: it
<StevenK> smb: No fair uploading packages with *one char* different :-)
<pitti> but seriously, it'd make upgrades much easier if we just keep the old name
<pitti> gratuitous renames in stable updates are more trouble than it's worth
<dholbach> good morning
<pitti> smb: I see the conflicts has been added to -meta, but that's neither sufficient nor required
<pitti> erm, or is it?
<pitti>  Package: linux-backports-modules-wireless-lucid-generic
<pitti> +Conflicts: linux-backports-modules-wireless-2.6.35-lucid-generic
<smb> pitti, So probably it needs waiting on Tim, who probably has a better knowledge why he did the renaming part.
<pitti> smb: any idea why this new conflicts in -meta is there?
<smb> pitti, I am trying to remember
<pitti> ah, I know
<pitti> linux-backports-modules-wireless-lucid-generic and linux-backports-modules-wireless-2.6.35-lucid-generic are both metapackages
<pitti> and you can have just one
<pitti> so that's fine
<smb> ah, ok. Yes they are
<pitti> ok, so -meta looks fine, under the assumption that the rename is done
<pitti> but lbm is missing conflicts/replaces: to the old wireless-2.6.34 names
<smb> We did not change the linux-backports-modules-wireless-lucid-generic beacause that exists already
<smb> And the new one has a version in it
<pitti> so we either need those C/R, or revert the renaming
<smb> pitti, Ok, so just to rephrase it, to be sure I understood. If we keep the nameing then the binary also needs to conflict/replace the old binary. Wouldn't that be true even without the rename?
<pitti> smb: I don't understand?
<pitti> if you don't rename a package, there's no potential conflict on upgrade
<pitti> but if you rename foo to bar, then you need to tell apt to remove foo before installing bar, to avoid file conflicts
<smb> Hm, well compat-wireless-2.6.35 should not be installed if wireless (old) name is installed.
<smb> So if you install the new wireless the old one needs to get removed even when it has the old name
<pitti> yes, that too
<pitti> that's the conflicts which is already there in the upload
<pitti> the one which confused me as being "conflicts itself", whereas it makes 34 conflicts to 35 only (which makes sense, too)
<smb> ah ok, so it also needs to conflict to the old name
<pitti> and a Replaces: tooo
<pitti> otherwise apt will hold back the new package instead of removing the old one and install the new one
<smb> Ok, so it seems we need at least to rework that. And I probably ask Tim how forcefully he is willing to defend the rename, right? :)
<pitti> smb: I don't like the rename (it creates trouble without an obivous advantage for the user, especially since it's all hidden behind metapackages anyway)
<pitti> smb: but if you guys really want to, I won't continue arguing against that
<pitti> but then we at least must make the upgrade working
<smb> Ok, agreed. I will get that resolved. So for now that is another reject then
<ogra> ari-tczew, hey
<ari-tczew> hello ogra
<ogra> ari-tczew, i'm just looking at http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ and see you did a commons-daemon upload that fails on arm because the arch is missing in the list of supported arches, mind to fix that ?
<ari-tczew> ogra: looking
<ari-tczew> ogra: feel free to fix it :)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> k
<tjaalton> hum, no keybuk.. anyone can explain why "start on (foo started or bar)" seems more like s/or/and/ in gssd.conf (nfs-common)?
<tjaalton> it's actually "(started portmap or mounting TYPE=nfs4 OPTIONS=*sec*krb5*)", but it doesn't proceed even though portmap is running
<tjaalton> using autofs, so the shares aren't mounted on boot
<tjaalton> doesn't work even with just "start on started portmap"..
<tjaalton> well, a workaround is easy
<jibel> mvo, Hey, could you please have a look at bug 614993 ? some users are reporting broken upgrades from 10.04 to 10.10 due to xorg and xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 614993 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "10.04 -> 10.10 upgrade fails: pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks: Holding Back xserver-xorg-video-nouveau rather than change xorg-video-abi-8.0" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614993
<mvo> jibel: will do after lunch
<RAOF> I'm pretty sure there's nothing left in the X stack which would break updates - everything should be installable.
 * ogra wonders why ubuntu-netbook shows up on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/maverick_probs.html for armel, tonights images built just fine and there is nothing that could cause uninstallability of the meta anymore
<persia> ogra, A recommends failure won't break images
<ogra> ah, right
<ogra> though i dont see any recommends on that list either
<persia> Oh, doesn't even matter.  So, ubuntu-netbook the package might be uninstallable, but livecd-rootfs is using the task.
<ogra> which installs the package
<persia> You'd have to resort to aptitude why-not
<persia> But using a different resolver logic.
<ogra> yeah
 * persia tries
<ogra> Riddell, is it necessary that we build two versions of qt4-x11 at the same time ? looks to me like -0ubuntu7 is superseded anyway by -0ubuntu8 (we'Re short on armel builders)
<Riddell> ogra: you can kill -0ubuntu7
<ogra> great, i cant though
<ogra> i think only lamont can kill it
<lamont> well, not only me, but not ogra
 * lamont applies a kiss of death to -0ubuntu7
 * ogra hus lamont 
<ogra> *hugs even
<Riddell> mvo: I don't suppose you've any quick thoughts on bug 624599 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 624599 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "KDE frontend crash during doPostUpgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/624599
<mvo> Riddell: could downloadSize be None for some reason?
<mvo> Riddell: I assume its not reproducable?
<Riddell> mvo: I ran it again from the same machien and had no problems, next step is to reset the machine and try it again from the start
<G> ttx: I just updated 455832, want me to edit the Maverick status?
<ttx> bug 455832
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455832 in libvirt (Ubuntu Maverick) "segfault when attaching disk with same physical device" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455832
<G> ttx: it's Lucid only and really at most a potential Lucid candidate
<ttx> G: sure, go ahead :)
<G> okay, fixed the status :)
<mvo> Riddell: thanks, let me know, I hope its something simple like a None tha
<pitti> oh, did edge just switch to the new ubuntu font?
<ScottK> Is the font released?
<jml> pitti, yes.
<jml> ScottK, I don't know.
<ScottK> If it doesn't have a free license, how would that work?
<Pici> Its just specified in the CSS, you need to have the font on your computer.
<smoser> is there a place / utility that I can query that maps adjective -> version ?
<smoser> ie: hardy => 8.04 , lucid = 10.04 ...
<geser> smoser: you could use the LP API for it
<smoser> geser, true. thanks for that suggestion. i seare i saw a utility once.
<smoser> well, finding nothing for query above, i have: http://paste.ubuntu.com/483989/
<G> ttx: if you want, I could create a debdiff for both bug 455832 & updated bug 571093
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455832 in libvirt (Ubuntu Lucid) "segfault when attaching disk with same physical device" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455832
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571093 in libvirt (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] multipath + libvirtd eats away more memory over time" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571093
<G> i.e. ready for SRU
<ttx> g: that can help, sure
<G> ttx: okay will do
<dpm> hi cr3, do you think you could have a look at bug 514401 to make checkbox translatable? Thanks!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 514401 in Ubuntu Translations "Several strings appear in English although translated" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/514401
<OdyX> pitti: aye. Thanks for the very fast upload of usb-modeswitch-* !
<pitti> OdyX: no problem; it's you who did all the real work :)
<cr3> dpm: hi there, I received your email and haven't had time to look into it yet :(
<OdyX> pitti: upstream's to thank on that one.
<dpm> cr3, no worries, just making sure you got it. Thanks!
<cr3> dpm: thanks for following up though :)
<jibel> mterry,  could you please have a look at the script to test bug 590133. It fails to run in lucid and we'll have to wait 6 months to know if the fix works.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 590133 in deja-dup (Ubuntu Lucid) "[data-loss] Trying to keep backups 'forever' ends up keeping backups 6 months" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/590133
<mterry> jibel, yes, it's on my list of stuff to do.  :-/
<jibel> mterry, great! thank you.
<G> ttx: I've got a debdiff, so I just need to put the testcase etc into the description of the bug right w/ link to the debdiff?
<ttx> G: yes
<ttx> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
<G> ttx: I can't seem to Nominate for Lucid
<G> ttx: do I need to change Maverick to Fix Released to nominate for Lucid?
<ttx> G: no, it's a rights issue. I'll do it
<G> ttx: okay :)
<ttx> G: bug link ?
<G> Bug #455832
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455832 in libvirt (Ubuntu Lucid) "segfault when attaching disk with same physical device" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455832
<ttx> G: it's already targeted to Lucid.
<ttx> You just need to subsribe ubuntu-sru and ubuntu-sponsors, now.
<G> ahhh, so I just go ahead and subscribe sru
<G> right thanks :)
<G> Oh right thats right, I remember what Nominate for Release is now :P
<G> ttx: done, thanks
<G> ttx: so thats all I need to do for now right?
<ttx> G: yes !
<cnd> seb128, utouch-grail in ubuntu has been waiting for mtdev to build
<cnd> mtdev has built for all but ia64 and sparc
<cnd> should utouch-grail be kick started so it builds?
<cnd> there's a chain of dependencies on the new utouch-grail, so the sooner it's built, the better
<pitti> cnd, seb128: apparently my main propagation a few days left out the binaries
<pitti> so yes, those builds need to be restarted in 80 minutes, when the mtdev binaries went into main
<cnd> pitti, ahh, thanks!
<pitti> in fact, I'm retrying now, they shoudl go to depwait
<pitti> (I won't be here any more in 80 mins)
<cnd> ok
<cnd> pitti, libmtdev-dev still couldn't be found for the grail build
<cnd> pitti, however, I see that we have a new version of grail that should be uploaded today
<cnd> so don't worry about kicking off a new build for it if you fix the mtdev issue
<lifeless> whats the current hwdb client package name?
<lifeless> or is it just part of apport ?
<deryck> lifeless, you mean checkbox?
<lifeless> the thing that gatheres data for lp's hw db
<lifeless> yeah, looks like checkbox these days - thanks
<deryck> np
<kirkland> hallyn: cjwatson: i'm installing a VM from today's server image ... the guest is not able to see its virtio disk
<kirkland> hallyn: cjwatson: is this a known issue?
<kirkland> there is no /dev/vda
<kirkland> virtio modules are loaded
<hallyn> kirkland: not known to me
<hallyn> kirkland: the issue that *is* known to me is that the maverick installer is not working under kvm - with either lucid or maverick host
 * ebroder just booked my flights for UDS :)
<hallyn> kirkland: url for the iso you were using?
<hallyn> (ubuntu-10.04.1-server-amd64.iso is working for me with virtio - /dev/vda1 is there)
<hallyn> kirkland: and, what cmdline?
<kirkland> hallyn: cool, good to know you know about it
<kirkland> hallyn: is there an open bug?
<kirkland> hallyn: if so, it's beta-release-critical, and we need to mark it as such immediately
<hallyn> i thought i'd filed one, but now i can't think what i woudl file it against
<hallyn> how does one list all the bugs one created?
<kirkland> hallyn: probably a kernel bug, as i have no /dev/vda
<kirkland> hallyn: or, against debian-installer, which cjwatson can easily triage to the misbehaving component
<ScottK> mvo: software-center 2.1.14/.1 didn't land before the freeze.  Did you want that in for beta?
<kirkland> hallyn: command line:
<kirkland> kirkland  1176   960 80 14:33 ?        00:00:04 kvm -m 1024 -smp 2 -cdrom /home/kirkland/.cache/testdrive/iso/ubuntu_maverick-server-amd64.iso -drive file=/home/kirkland/.cache/testdrive/img/testdrive-disk-qKihPq.img,if=virtio,cache=writeback,index=0,boot=on -usb -usbdevice tablet -net nic,model=virtio -net user -soundhw es1370 -vga cirrus
<hallyn> kirkland: i wonder if starting it by hand and dropping either the cache=writeback or boot=on line will let it work
<mvo> ScottK: that would be nice, 2.14.1 has some icon updates, we got the icons really late from the icon team and some last second design team input
<mvo> ScottK: eh, 2.1.14 I mean (2.1.14.1 is really very minor)
<ScottK> Looks fine.  You'll get a reject for 2.1.14, so don't be suprised.
<ScottK> Done.
<hallyn> kirkland: no, wait - installer is now working for me
<hallyn> seems to be fixed
<geser> mvo: did you had time to look at bug 618597 yet? luckily it doesn't happen too often when I use gdebi with pbuilder so it's not that important
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 618597 in python-apt (Ubuntu) "AttributeError: 'DscSrcPackage' object has no attribute '_installed_conflicts'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618597
<mvo> geser: not yet, sorry, but I can do that tomorrow, it looks straightforward
<hallyn> kirkland: feh, i can't reproduce your lucid vda error with your arguments
<kirkland> hallyn: hmm
<hallyn> kirkland: doh!  you're using *maverick* iso
<kirkland> hallyn: yes
<hallyn> i didn't know such a thing existed
<kirkland> hallyn: this is a maverick issue
<kirkland> hallyn: cdimage.ubuntu.com
<kirkland> hallyn: or, sudo apt-get install testdrive
<kirkland> hallyn: $ testdrive-gtk
<hallyn> yeah that's what i'm doing
<hallyn> kirkland: installer is really misbehaving for me.  seems like SDL hanging or something
<kirkland> hallyn: hmm, my install completed, once i went from virtio disk to scsi
<hallyn> kirkland: can you try a desktop install and tell me what you see?
<hallyn> (i'm waiting on server iso to d/l - virtio not working = !acceptable imo)
<kirkland> hallyn: well, i've installed eucalyptus into a vm, which takes like 3GB of mem, and both of my processors :-)
<kirkland> hallyn: so i can't very easily run more than one at a time
<hallyn> kirkland: doh
<seb128> slangasek, I've uploaded unity-place-* updates with an extra recommends and rules cleaning
<slangasek> seb128: approved, thanks
<seb128> slangasek, thank you
<slangasek> seb128: is libzeitgeist-gio already on all the same images as these packages?
<seb128> slangasek, "image"
<slangasek> that's a yes, then? :)
<seb128> slangasek, it's a new binary from libzeitgeist which was in main
<seb128> I promoted the binary early today
<seb128> well the binary was added some days ago
<slangasek> ok
<seb128> well the source is in main and the binary has been promoted
<seb128> so "yes" ;-)
<slangasek> right - was basically just wondering if I needed to worry about impact on image size
<slangasek> and dig any deeper - but it sounds like I don't
<seb128> no, it's tiny
<hallyn> kirkland: did you file a bug about the virtio disk not being there?
<hallyn> i can confirm it
<kirkland> hallyn: i did not -- was asking if you had yet;  i can do it, though.
<Hopsa> Is this the correct place to ask about dhcpd3 segfaulting and valgrind saying its: "Invalid read of size 4" ?
<Hopsa> In lucid.
<ScottK> Hopsa: Your best bet is to file a bug with the information.
<seb128> slangasek, nautilus uploads with a trivial patch to get a default desktop menu with indicator-appmenu
<seb128> uploaded
<Hopsa> ScottK: Im interrested in verifying this as well. Can you see if dhcpd3 starts on one of your computers, or anyone else ?
<Hopsa> It could just be my computer maybe, but im feeling it isnt.
<kenvandine> slangasek, i uploaded ubuntu-wallpapers with the community contest winners
<kenvandine> slangasek, we're going to have a few DX uploads coming too
<kirkland> hallyn: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/624915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 624915 in linux (Ubuntu) "maverick kvm guests not seeing virtio disks" [Undecided,New]
<Hopsa> It complains about missing semi colons, but the conf is totally ok and it works on other computers. Those other computers have newver versions of dhcpd though.
<Hopsa> newer.
<ScottK> Sorry, just on my way out the door.
<Hopsa> I can put my conf on some site for testing purposes if you want ?
<Hopsa> Ah, ok.
<Hopsa> This problem doesnt bother me much, but i thought i could fix it for other Ubuntu users.
<Hopsa> (If the bug is correct)
<kirkland> hallyn: you can confirm that bug, when you get a chance
<hallyn> kirkland: oh - yeah, on it
<Hopsa> Yep, but i thought id speed up the process some. Im the upstream gadmin-gdhcpd maintainer so i feel users could add bugs to that and email us alot.
<Hopsa> Also, gadmin-dhcpd has the wrong --sysconfdir set. It should be "/etc", or DHCPD_CONF="" is pointed wrong.
<Hopsa> But that wont matter if dhcpd3 is hosed.
<nasserash> hey there, I'm trying to find the location of the indicators icon, the monochrome icon, anyone knows where it should be?
<nasserash> icons*
<Hopsa> .. /usr/share/pixmaps or /usr/share/icons
<Hopsa> Maybe in a subdirectory with the name of that application below the dirs i showed.
<nasserash> thanks :) it's in /usr/share/icons
<Hopsa> nasserash.
<Hopsa> Np!
<Hopsa> Hmm, wonder why /usr/share/icons is used by a tiny bit of apps ?
<Hopsa> to be fair "icons" is what they are, but i wonder if its worth changing every app to put the icons there instead of in pixmaps :P
<Hopsa> Perhaps those applications are badly configured ?
<Hopsa> Does any of you people compile some programs for ubuntu (devel) or do you just download some select Debian versions ? I just burnt Debian 505 and will install it to check how that works.
<ubottu> Error: Debian bug 505 could not be found
<Hopsa> ? :)
<Hopsa> I use all the dists i can to test software on and Ubuntu seems like a nice dist.
<Hopsa> I just have Lucid atm, upgraded from the 8.04 one
<Hopsa> Tried to remove dhcpd3-server and dhcpd3-common and reinstalling those but the result is the same. Segfault - Invalid read of size 4. Updating it to something newer would most likely solve the issue.
<Hopsa> (Thats what valgrind sais)
<seb128> slangasek, unity update to drop a build-depends on libvala-dev which is a nbs
<seb128> slangasek, and appmenu-gtk update from dx
<Hopsa> Im also going to test the torque pbs cluster .deb's to chack if they need fixing. Lots of directories missing and also files. I think it should be good to go as a server once installed and perhaps editing one file.
<Hopsa> chack/check.
<Hopsa> Makes a nice cluster btw! :)
<Hopsa> Also, there should be 2 .deb's for it. One server and one client version.
<Hopsa> The client should only have psb_mom and the server all 3: pbs_server pbs_sched and pbs_mom
<Hopsa> psb/pbs /hmmz
<kenvandine> slangasek, i uploaded indicator-messages, indicator-applet, and indicator-application for DX
<seb128> slangasek, I've sponsored an utouch-grail update
<slangasek> seb128: ok; working through the backlog now :)
<seb128> slangasek, thanks
<seb128> slangasek, you might want to bin NEW some of the recent uploads as well
<seb128> I've noticed that ubuntuone has an upload blocked due to -dbg adding
<seb128> and avahi has a soname change in a lib
<seb128> which is a bit unfortunate now but the rdepends are managable for a rebuild
<slangasek> ooh, 25% reduction in size on ubuntu-wallpapers
<slangasek> seb128: would be good if another archive admin could help with some of that in parallel; I'll certainly pitch in in a bit
<kenvandine> slangasek, thanks :)
<seb128> slangasek, ok, I will finish my queue of uploads and then see if I can help if I'm still up for something ;-)
<kenvandine> i was worried when i saw the default wallpaper was a bit bigger than the old one... but the contest wallpapers makes up for it and more :)
<amikrop> Hello. Is there a solution for this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/consolekit/+bug/544139 It renders my system useless.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544139 in consolekit (Ubuntu Maverick) "Active VT tracking can fail at startup" [High,Triaged]
<Hopsa> Pseudo for devs: "if -EINVAL" , "reinit_thread_function()"
<Hopsa> Or if devkit is old, upgrade it!
<tumbleweed> can someone kick mtdev through binary new?
<amikrop> I mean, it's a really important bug and many people can confirm it. It would be vital to release a fix as soon as possible. It happens to me at 70% of the boots.
<Hopsa> tumbleweed: This one ? http://bitmath.org/code/mtdev and why ?
<Hopsa> new ver ?
<Hopsa> Multi Touch seems cool :)
<Hopsa> But touching things is outdated before it even began. I want to think and the computer should do.
<glickster> hey is there anyway i can install mod_wsgi 3.3 on ubuntu? it only comes with 2.8 but thats long obsolute
<Hopsa> tumbleweed: See if they can fix dhcpd3 as well. Mine segfaults! (Invalid read of size 4) plus the ubuntu version is very old.
<Hopsa> Where can i find the changelog for dhcpd3 ?
<persia> Hopsa, `aptitude changelog dhcpd3` is probably easiest.  http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/ may also work, depending on your preference.  Both run ~4 hours behind the publisher: for newest stuff you need to chase them from the packages in the archive.
<Hopsa> persia: Thanks! ... I found this as well!
<Hopsa> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dhcp3/+bugs
 * persia is suspicious about LP's concept of "changelog"
<Hopsa> persia: Coundlt find the changelog it sais
<Hopsa> couldnt
<persia> Which "it"?
<Hopsa> "aptitude changelog dhcpd3"
<Hopsa> So the IT would be the program called aptitude residing on my Lucid computer :)
<persia> Ah.  My typo: `aptitude changelog dhcp3`  Sorry.  I believe dchp3-server is the binary package that does the dchpd stuff for dhcp3, but there's always a chance of more packages that I can't find.
<Hopsa> Thanks! As its called DHCPD its hard to get it right when its named badly.
<Chipzz> Hopsa: not per se
<Chipzz> depends if it uses the source package name or the binary package name
<Chipzz> dhcpD is compiled from dhcp which also contains dhcp client
<glickster> hey does anyone know where i can get a .deb of mod-wsgi 3.2 it looks like its in maverik, but shouldnt there be a deb?
<geser> !info libapache2-mod-wsgi maverick
<ubottu> libapache2-mod-wsgi (source: mod-wsgi): Python WSGI adapter module for Apache. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.2-2 (maverick), package size 126 kB, installed size 392 kB
<geser> looks ok
<geser> glickster: the source package is named "mod-wsgi" but the binary package it builds is named "libapache2-mod-wsgi"
<glickster> geser, is there a .deb i can download somewhere for it?
<geser> doesn't apt-get (or any other package manager) work for you? or do you only need the .deb file itself?
<Hopsa> Chipzz: The source is: http://ftp.isc.org/isc/dhcp/dhcp-4.2.0.tar.gz
<Hopsa> But Ubuntu uses 3.1.3, how come ?
<Hopsa> Thierry Carrez made the last change, the seconad last change was made by Evan Dandrea, the third last change was made by Chuck Short
<slangasek> seb128: appmenu-gtk is "new upstream version" in debian/changelog and no upstream changelog in the package describing what this change is for; I'm pushing it in, but that's less than ideal, maybe you want to push back on your upstream :)
<seb128> slangasek, I will, upstream is dx so I can easily do that ;-)
<Hopsa> IS Thierry here ?
<Hopsa> Could be good to trackback and see what went wrong
<Hopsa> Also, if you update dhcpd and use the much much newer debian versions then recompile gadmin-dhcpd with --sysconfdir=/etc DHCPD_CONF=/etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf (not /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd/dhcpd.conf) So itll work out-of-the-box so to speak.
<Hopsa> Do you use the debian compile cluster or does ubuntu have some of its own ?
<Chipzz> Hopsa: I wasn't asking sth, I was *telling* you sth :P
<Hopsa> sth ?
 * Hopsa feels old :P
<Hopsa> What does sth mean ?
<Hopsa> Dont worry, im only 35 and will continue to write open source programs until im 65 atleast.
<Hopsa> If Canonical wants a nice cumputer image here instead of the image at the top i think i can accept that for some sort of donation. IBM, Intel etc etc would also be nice.
<Hopsa> http://mange.dynalias.org/linux/gadmin-control-panel/screenshots/GAdmin-Control-Panel.png
<Hopsa> BTW: The app is fairly nice ;)
<maco> Hopsa: sth = something
<Hopsa> Aha! ... hard to get all the abbriviations these days :P
<Hopsa> abbreviations ?
<ion> *shiver*
<Hopsa> ion. Are you cold or something ?
<Hopsa> Shiver me timbers! :)
<ion> Nope, just saw the screenshot
<Hopsa> Oh, yeah.. the top image is there because of a need for a new one.
<Hopsa> Plus the top image (cloud or egg or elipse or etc) will be looking good if some company donates a bit and puts their image there. PS: Not microsoft :)
<Hopsa> Im unemployed now :(
<Hopsa> Microsoft could offer me 3 bigillions, i wouldnt take the money.
<Hopsa> :)
#ubuntu-devel 2010-08-27
<Hopsa> ion: The application itself is nicely written and will be the control panel for all the gadmintools apps.
<Hopsa> ion: http://mange.dynalias.org/linux/gadmin-control-panel/gadmin-control-panel-0.0.4.tar.gz
<Hopsa> Nice to not have to write a password to open up the server control panels plus it saves space on the desktop etc
<Hopsa> Some people like to know what it does and what its good for etc so i wrote that down: http://mange.dynalias.org/linux/gadmin-control-panel/screenshots/gadmin-control-panel-features.txt
<Hopsa> ion: Checked the code ? / Made that partly in 2004 somewhere and finished it in 3 days now.
<Hopsa> The hard part was sizing all images to fit and scale properly with eachother on the horizontal and vertical planes.
<Hopsa> I have noticed that the gadmin-dhcpd icon looks like crap. Its a very early icon i made in gimp (With arrows as cables pointing downwards) and the computer icon is yellow and the screen is black. I have told upstream or downstream Debian in my case to let the original .png files be .png and not convert them to .xpm and loose resolution or just use the real .png files.
<Hopsa> Well, i hope some of you enjoy the applications i made so far. Have a great time!
<Hopsa> Dont hesitate to ask for help regarding any of the applications.
<JontheEchidna> Could an archive admin please push muon 1.0.1-0ubuntu2 through approval queue please? It's in universe, and 0ubuntu2 fixes a missing dependency for the postinst script.
<Hopsa> JontheEchidna: Ask them to update dhcpd3 to something remotely new as well.
<pranay_09> hi, i have build an application , in java and i want to make a .deb package of it,where can i find instructions on how to do it?
<persia> http://wiki.debian.org/Java/Packaging has some pointers that may be useful.
<persia> If you're using ant, it's easiest.
<pranay_09> persia, thanks
<pranay_09> how do i know the JAVA_HOME and CLASSPATH?
<pranay_09> i did gedit /etc/environment but didn't find them there
<persia> You set the CLASSPATH you need to build.  You'll probably end up needing to list a few jars from your build-dependencies.
<pranay_09> ok
<persia> JAVA_HOME is tricky.  I've never had a good handle on it.  Try asking in #debian-java on OFTC (irc.oftc.org)
<pranay_09> persia, i checked the link /usr/bin/java which pointed to some other link, and ultimately it's /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/bin/java  . I think this is correct?
<persia> That works as long as you're using openJDK.
<pranay_09> ya i have been using that only
<pranay_09> any problem in it?
<persia> Well, there's bugs :)  Also, some folks like gcj.
<persia> Also it doesn't handle some architectures.
<pranay_09> persia, ok, so what's the alternative?
 * persia thought there was some smart JAVA_HOME path that did the right thing.
<persia> Indeed: JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/jvm/default-java
<persia> http://pkg-java.alioth.debian.org/docs/tutorial.html has lots of useful bits.
<pranay_09> so should i include this path in my /etc/environment file for JAVA_HOME?
<persia> No.  You don't want JAVA_HOME set in /etc/environment
 * persia doesn't remember why, precisely
<pranay_09> ok, then that should be in the debina/rules file as shown in http://pkg-java.alioth.debian.org/examples/library-nodeps/ ?
<pranay_09> *debian/rules
<persia> Yep.
<pranay_09> ok, thanks :)
<JontheEchidna> (thanks to whomever pushed muon through)
<pranay_09> persia, i have basically two java programmes, one is the gui and other has some code, and this requires a package called "spd-say" (no library) so which option should i go for in this page http://pkg-java.alioth.debian.org/examples/   it's not clear to me
<persia> I'd probably use "Simple program using ant" for the gui, and "simple library using ant" for the code on which the GUI depends.
<pranay_09> ok
<pranay_09> persia, i have made both the programmes in netbeans 6.8 and under the netbeans folder i have the programme folder ,"Application" (which itself has sub-folders of build, src,nbproject,test,and files build.xml,and manifest.mf). Now in the given example of Simple programme using ant what should be the foo.jar file? and what's the usr/share/foo?
<pranay_09> persia, ping
<persia> pranay_09, Hrm.  I haven't worked with new code in netbeans for too long to be sure.  Sorry.  The folks in #debian-java can probably give better advice, but it will be quiet there for a couple more hours.
<pranay_09> ok, :)
<graphitemaster> this endless parade of joining channels is like a quest for the holey grail.
<persia> What do you seek?
<ebroder> No, no, no - the first question is "WHAT....IS YOUR NAME?"
<graphitemaster> a developer of ubuntu :P
<graphitemaster> oh right, Dale
<KE1HA> graphitemaster:  when you joined the channel, looks the links it listed, there's allot of info there about the teams.
<persia> IRC handles that question :)
<persia> So, why do you seek a developer of Ubuntu (there are many here)?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> cnd: mtdev> argh, why is this so resilient? I promoted it twice now
<pitti> cnd: ah, it's probably because the binaries are out of date; promoting again
<graphitemaster> I want to join the dev
<KE1HA> Just FYI, that fella graphitmaster wanting to join, just got banned from ubuntu channel.
<graphitemaster> yeah after I was about to explain what the bash does.
<graphitemaster> never give me time to explain, and not run it, just make me look like some bad person :/
<KE1HA> Dude, it's a fork bomb, they know it, you know it, get over it.
<graphitemaster> the ban was kinda dumb
<graphitemaster> it's not like I told them to run dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/zero
<graphitemaster> or rm -rf /dev/sda
<graphitemaster> it's a forkbomb, the worst it does is crash the pc
<graphitemaster> and a properly configured linux should not crash from a fork bomb
<KE1HA> There's allot of new users in that channel, they dont need that kind of help, they have enough troubles as it is. That's all I have to say.
<ebroder> Guys, this is off-topic for this channel
<pitti> you know, rm -rf /dev/sda causes no noticeable damage :)
<pitti> and cat'ing /dev/sda to /dev/zero even less so
<graphitemaster> ptti dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/zero causes a lot of damage
<persia> Just makes the machine sit on IO for a bit.
<pitti> graphitemaster: like, eating some I/O resources?
<RAOF> graphitemaster: You've got if and of around the wrong way.
<graphitemaster> oopsy :P
<pitti> or are you afraid of filling up your zero device?
<persia> No.  That's definitely the right way.  the other would be unfortunate.
<pitti> you can buy a new one for $10 or so
<pitti> (and get a bigger one while you are at it)
<RAOF> persia: Well, if he wants to cause a lot of damage he's got them around the wrong way ;)
<ebroder> Depends on whether you're testing read or write performance!
<RAOF> pitti: Do you have a lucrative sideline selling /dev/zero devices? :)
<persia> pitti, A bigger zero device?
<graphitemaster> /dev/urandom is better
<pitti> RAOF: get a 2 TB SSD one, it rocks! but *shhhh*
<pitti> persia: yeah, got fed up of -ENOSPC on dd'ing to /dev/zero :)
<RAOF> pitti: Can I get a desktop-team discount from you? :)
<pitti> RAOF: they come in pairs with null devices, too
<persia> Wow.  I always used a grounding wire.  hadn't thought about buffering.  Way to reduce entropic decay!
<graphitemaster> so the LTS releases means more time for parties for you guys or what?
<ttx> Hopsa: dhcp 4.x was in debian experimental until July 2010 (package is called isc-dhcp). The dhcp3 package tracks the 3.x series. We mostly follow Debian there. We'll get isc-dhcp in universe for Natty Narwhal
<ttx> Not exactly sure what the plans for transition would be. That's part of the minimal seed, so it's mostly a question for the Foundations team.
<persia> Could someone give-back nautilus on amd64?  I get no "implicitly converted" messages in a local build on amd64. : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/1:2.31.90-0ubuntu2/+build/1935864
<dholbach> persia, retried it
<persia> dholbach, Thanks.
<pitti> persia: converted pointers? that's an additional check that the buildd does
<pitti> persia: it only manifests as warnings usually
<pitti> but try to build with -Werror, then you should get the same
<persia> Ah, ugh.  Oh well.  nautilus needs help then.
<persia> I did some greps on my build-log, hoping to catch them, but didn't see any.
<geser> could someone please give-back php5 on amd64? libsnmp-dev is installable again. thanks
<persia> You beat my test build :p
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5/5.3.3-1ubuntu6/+build/1934201
<pitti> geser: kicked
<pitti> cnd: doing some binNEWing for the utouch stuff, should help more
<G> whats the policy for creating an SRU candidate if the package has no patch system, should I add the patch system used in newer releases or use someother patch method?
<G> I'm assuming just implement the patch system used in maverick but I just want to be sure
<persia> Generally one tries to use the patch system preferred by the maintainer.  that one was added in maverick makes that a good choice.
<G> persia: cool, was just checking :)
<G> thanks
<persia> If there's no obvious choice, the patch is typically carried directly in diff.gz or debian.tar.gz
<G> persia: okay then, thanks
<mvo> Riddell: I fixed bug #624599 in u-m, testing now, a rather silly bug on my part :/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 624599 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "KDE frontend crash during doPostUpgrade" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/624599
<DktrKranz> mvo: gdebi upload in Debian would require a python-apt one too, do you know if it's planned?
<DktrKranz> (and if it can migrate into Squeeze?)
<mvo> DktrKranz: the new version is in debian already, no? the new python-apt I mean, got uploaded yesterday iirc
<mvo> DktrKranz: and it should be fine for squeeze
<DktrKranz> mvo: oh, I probably missed that
<mvo> DktrKranz: np, might not have hit all mirrors yet or something like this
<DktrKranz> I'll see whether both can migrate
<DktrKranz> I owe some favours from some RT guys ;)
<mvo> heh, cool :)
 * mvo hugs DktrKranz
<persia> Could someone please give back gnome-games/powerpc?  It builds now : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-games/1:2.31.90-0ubuntu1/+build/1921729
<pitti> persia: kicked (not that you couldn't do that yourself, but always happy to do a favor)
<persia> pitti, I don't believe I can.  Mustn't one be core-dev?
<persia> And thanks :)
<pitti> oh, you aren't?
<persia> No.
<pitti> then that is the bug :)
<pitti> so, sorry for the false statement
<persia> heh.  I'm currently working on main stuff to meet my own criteria, and will try to change that.
<cjwatson> anyone who can upload a package can retry builds for it
<cjwatson> AFAIK
<persia> That matches my understanding
<cjwatson> oh yes, and gnome-games is in main
<pitti> cjwatson: right, I just falsely assumed that persia had been a core dev for ages
<tjaalton> pitti: hey, are you still tending cups? I filed bug 612578 couple of weeks ago, and would like to know what to do next
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 612578 in cups (Ubuntu) "Printing fails unless the IPP's are purged, but fails again after "some time"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/612578
<pitti> tjaalton: I'm not usually reading bugs, tkamppeter does a fine job of it
<tjaalton> pitti: ok. tkamppeter ^^
<pitti> tkamppeter: "cached IPPs"? you mean auto-discovered printers?
<tjaalton> pitti: no, they are all in the printers.conf
<tjaalton> but the ipp's get recreated after a purge & restart
<tjaalton> and they work fine for a while
<G> kirkland: if/when you are around in the next few hours, could you ping me about testing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seabios/+bug/589063 and getting it ready for a potential SRU
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 589063 in seabios (Ubuntu) "Windows Server 2008 won't boot with more than 4 vCPUs" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<G> is it me or does the owner for qemu-kvm look wrong?
<persia> owner?
<G> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu-kvm
 * persia doesn't see "owner" on that page
<G> errr sorry, meant Maintainer
<persia> no, that's correct.
<persia> There are no individual maintainers in Ubuntu.  Collaboration is a key component of our philosophy.
<G> so there is a difference between "Ubuntu Developer Team" and "Ubuntu Developers"?
<persia> Could someone please give-back libgweather/powerpc and libunique/powerpc?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgweather/2.30.2-1ubuntu1/+build/1915522 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunique/1.1.6-1ubuntu3/+build/1914222
<G> (i.e. the 'Maintainer' for qemu-kvm & packagekit)
<persia> Probably just someone typing something slightly different for Maintainer.  We probably ought clean it up, but it's never been a priority.
<G> ahhh okay, yeah, was just curious
<sistpoty|work> persia: given back (I still love that button *g*)
<persia> sistpoty|work, Thanks !
<ogra> can someone let u-boot-linaro out of NEW please
<ogra> we need the omap4 binary for omap4 images
<tkamppeter> pitti, tjaalton, this seems to be a completely new problem. It seems that a new feature (not known which one) in CUPS has torn down other parts of CUPS, as usual.
<G> btw, I take it as we are in FeatureFreeze there is no real use of doing Merge requests, or does that not apply to Universe?
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: "as usual"? :)
<persia> G, Depends on the merge.  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/maverick/ has a rich set of potentially useful merges in need of review.
<cjwatson> G: it shouldn't be a priority simply because it's a merge; if it's a priority, it should be because it fixes a bug
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: I could try backporting the maverick version (1.4.4) and see what it feels like
<G> persia: so the ones on that list are the ones that are most important to do
<tkamppeter> tjaalton, pitti, CUPS has a cache in /var/cache/cups/. Here it caches things like list of available PPDs and also the remote printers discovered automatically via IPP. Looks like a bug in the writing of the info into the cache or the readback out of the cache, so that wrong info gets supplied if CUPS relies on the cache, but CUPS has correct info if it obtains it directly.
<tkamppeter> tjaalton, good idea, perhaps it got fixed.
<persia> G, No.  The ones on that list are packages where Debian fixed a bug that Debian declared Release Critical.  In many cases, Ubuntu needs to fix the same bug, and can use the solution from Debian.
<persia> The nice thing about that list is it includes bugs *AND* potential solutions, as opposed to many other sources of important bugs, that may not come with solutions.
<tkamppeter> tjaalton, with the "as usual" I mean that it often happens that if a new feature gets added in a new version, regression bugs occur.
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: ah, ok
<cnd> pitti, thanks, I'm starting to see some packages now :)
<cnd> pitti, can you restart xserver-xorg-input-evdev now that utouch-grail is built?
<pitti> cnd: retried
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: bah, build failed: http://pastebin.com/YzBRjWtv
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: i'll try to work around it on monday
<cnd> pitti, looks like evdev failed becausee it couldn't find libutouch-grail-dev
<cnd> does that need to be newed as well?
<pitti> cnd: nothing utouchy in https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+queue?queue_state=0
<cnd> pitti, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/54494596/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.xserver-xorg-input-evdev_1:2.3.2-6ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<cnd> maybe it just needs more time?
<pitti> libutouch-grail-dev | 1.0.11-0ubuntu1 |      maverick | armel, i386, powerpc
<pitti> libutouch-grail-dev | 1.0.11-0ubuntu1 | maverick/universe | amd64
<pitti> cnd: right, seems the amd64 one came too late and was mis-NEWed
 * pitti promotes
<cnd> ok
<cnd> thanks for looking into it
<pitti> cnd: nice timing, 4 mins before publisher
<pitti> so, we can retry that one in an ohur
<cnd> heh
<cnd> k
<amikrop> Hi, is there an available update for fixing this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/consolekit/+bug/544139 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544139 in consolekit (Ubuntu Maverick) "Active VT tracking can fail at startup" [High,Triaged]
<amikrop> Or will you wait for 10.10?
<cjwatson> amikrop: nothing yet, it's in my queue.
<cjwatson> (asking here won't make it happen faster)
<amikrop> cjwatson: OK. (That was not my purpose, anyway, in the first place). Thank you.
<ogra> cjwatson, remind me (i always forget since i do it so rarely) changing platform.maverick/supported-hardware-common will be automatically picked up with the next publisher run, right ?
<cjwatson> immediately - it's not in a task
<ogra> k
<ogra> so i just have to wait for jdstrand to get up and let the package out of new :)
<hallyn> Daviey: around?
<Daviey> hallyn: sadly :)
<hallyn> Daviey: i added a quilt patch to xlc which wasn't using quilt before
<hallyn> Daviey: should i only have to add 'include /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make
<hallyn> to debian/rules?
<hallyn> and then the patch should get applied during build?
<hallyn> or is there more todo?
<Daviey> hallyn: hmm.. what package is this?
<hallyn> (like call dh_patch)
<hallyn> Daviey: https://launchpad.net/~serge-hallyn/+archive/lxc-lucid-lazyumount
<hallyn> Daviey: there is no 'build:' rule in debian/rules...
<hallyn> does there have to be?
<Daviey> hallyn: just looking at your PPA package source
<Daviey> hallyn: There is a commented out dpatch include, right?  That is from upstream Debian?
<hallyn> yes it is
<cjwatson> lxc uses cdbs, so you need to use cdbs-appropriate patch handling
<cjwatson> (not disagreeing with Daviey - just to explain why /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make won't cut it)
<cjwatson> cdbs supplies the build: rule
<hallyn> cjwatson: ok, that was the first q:  *does* quilt.make cut it :)
<Daviey> hallyn: I might suggest using dpatch (although i prefer quilt, and it's a defacto standard) submitting it to debian would be easier if you follow upstreams preference
<jdstrand> ogra: hey. I haven't looked at it yet, but how will this kernel impact beta?
<hallyn> so dpatch will apply the quilt patches though?
<ogra> jdstrand, kernel ?
<ogra> jdstrand, i only need u-boot-linaro :)
<Daviey> hallyn: dpatch is an equivilant patch system
<hallyn> ok, thanks cjwatson and Daviey
<ogra> jdstrand, especially the omap4-panda binary
<hallyn> that explains why mypatch didn't fix it :)
<Daviey> hallyn: hope that helps :)
<jdstrand> ogra: oh, heh. I just assumed it was a kernel since it seems I always have an arm kernel on fridays :)
<ogra> heh
<cjwatson> if you wanted to use quilt, you would need to include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk instead, but I agree it's better to go with what's already in debian/rules - use dpatch-edit-patch to create the patch file
<hallyn> cjwatson: well i don't care what it uses to stack the patches, so long as it is using quilt format
<cjwatson> why does it need to use quilt format?  as Daviey points out, submitting it to Debian will be easier if you use the patch system that the Debian maintainer seems to prefer
<cjwatson> dpatch has its own format - it's still basically a patch, just different wrapping
<Daviey> +1
<cjwatson> everyone has their own preferences, but when working on existing packages it's best to fit in
<hallyn> trying...
<hallyn> Daviey: heh, I'd reserve my +1 for cdbs using git, but...
<Daviey> hallyn: Opening a whole can of religious worms there :)
<hallyn> Daviey: so, apart from opening the resulting binary in a dissassembler,
<hallyn> is there any way for me to tell if i now have it right???
<Daviey> hallyn: he build log, should show the patch being applied
<hallyn> the build log for the binary build, but not for the source build?
<Daviey> If you really want to see if the patch is applied, i guess you could experiement with adding a string change that is viable.. then remove it before upload? :)
 * hallyn figures he'll brush up on his assembly reading skills, it's been af ew months by now
<Daviey> hallyn: The source package should normally not have the patch applied for debian/patches/ packages.
 * Daviey has been spoilt, mainly working with debian source package 3 packages this cycle.
<hallyn> Daviey: oh well, it appears to *not* be being applied during binary build :(  back to the cdbs docs.  thanks.
<Daviey> hallyn: edit-patch is a pretty nifty tool, i don't know if you've tried that yet?
<diwic> hmm, any ideas why I can't find the correct Lucid version (1.0.22-0ubuntu5) of alsa-utils-dbgsym on ddebs.ubuntu.com?
<tkamppeter> tjaalton, please contact pitti about your build problem. He did the symbol table stuff.
<hallyn> Daviey: yeah, edit-patch was kinda fun to use  :)  (the end-result isn't the prettiest patch, but the build environment was cool)
<Daviey> hallyn: yeah.. i think there is an open bug about using it with a VCS, it doesn't give you a chance to edit the patch boilerplat headers before promting you to commit
<Daviey> but just hacking on the code, typing exit.. and getting a patch is really awesome.
<hallyn> ttx: mathiaz: I can't remember, did either of you say you'd tried out rememberthemilk.com?
<ttx> hallyn: I'm using it
<mathiaz> hallyn: ttx is
<ttx> hallyn: mathiaz used to use it.
<mathiaz> hallyn: I tried it a couple of years ago as well
<hallyn> (the mapping feature is making me think it's worth a try :)
<mathiaz> hallyn: SpamapS is also using it IIRC
<hallyn> ttx: and you still like it?
<hallyn> mathiaz: why did you stop?
<mathiaz> hallyn: required to be online
<hallyn> (I'm using ubuntu one mainly, but i guess i feel like "mixing it up" a bit :)
<ttx> hallyn: yes, I had to trick it though :) but its flexibility allows for it
<ttx> hallyn: http://fnords.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/gtd-with-rtm/
<hallyn> oh, right, so i tried to login last night for the first time an di t wanted javascript :)
<hallyn> ttx: will read that, thx
<ttx> hallyn: also allows nice tricks like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ttx/%2Bjunk/scripts/annotate/head%3A/gtd
<ttx> hallyn: I slightly evolved my setup since that article
<ttx> hallyn: let me know if you want to go further in that direction
<ttx> mathiaz: I use my iPod touch RTM app for offline work :)
<hallyn> i'll have to see if there's an n900 app
<bigon> slomo: hi, any reason you removed gir on libgee in debian? http://packages.qa.debian.org/libg/libgee.html
<slomo> bigon: yes, to do it properly there has to be a package for the typelib too and i don't want to add new GI packages to anything until their ABI is stable
<bigon> mmm could you add it in experimental? I really need it
<slomo> no, it doesn't make sense to go through NEW only to go through NEW again in 2-3 weeks
<bigon> again?
<bigon> empathy need folks that need libgee and I really want to upload it in experimental
<slomo> bigon: yes, GI ABI changes... i won't touch any GI packaging stuff until it's really declared as stable and they use correct versioning (i.e. change the version in the paths and stuff when changing the ABI)
<bigon> mmm ok
<bigon> let's see if I can build folks without introspection
<slomo> the situation is simply unacceptable as it is now *shrug* also, which version of GI do you need to folks?
<bigon> 0.6.7 I think
<cjwatson> doko: I can't seem to reproduce the configure test failure in bug 601030
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601030 in gcc-4.4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "broken configuration test with fortify source " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601030
<cjwatson> doko: can you check whether it's still failing in the current test rebuild (I don't have the necessary URLs to hand) and post a build log URL?
<doko> cjwatson: ok, will do. is there a test rebuild running?
<cjwatson> doko: AFAIK you're the only one who's been doing test rebuilds of late
<smoser> cjwatson, ping. re bug 623609. I think that if I could seed: 'grub-pc grub-pc/install_devices multiselect NONE' or something like that to indicate "dont bother installing bootloader", I would be good.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623609 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub-pc needs some help in uec instances" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623609
<smoser> that would fix all the uec situations. but for ec2 i still need to work around grub-probe not functioning.
<G> kirkland: unping, I'm just going to update the bug if you could take a look at it when you've got a chance (589063)
<superm1> pitti, cjwatson; sigh, still hitting the hash sum mismatch on today's (http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/mythbuntu/maverick/daily-live-20100827.log). can one of you manually rerun so that we could produce an image to regress the new ubiquity from yesterday?
<pitti> I'll trigger a new build
<pitti> running
<superm1> thanks
<ogra> jdstrand, anything holding up u-boot-linaro ? anything i can do ?
<jdstrand> ogra: no, just got tied up. I'll do it now
<pranay_09> hi, is the language option in spd-say package not active?
<ogra> jdstrand, thanks a lot
<pitti> superm1: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/mythbuntu/daily-live/20100827.1/
<pranay_09> i mean i tried to change the language as spd-say -s -l it "Hello" but i hear it in english only
<superm1> pitti, great thanks! and finally these images aren't oversized too :)
<pitti> superm1: I guess it also picked up the OO.o fix now?
<pitti> ah, no OO.o on there
<superm1> pitti, well i committed a  bunch of fixes like 4 days ago, but haven't been able to see if they fixed it
<superm1> mostly pool/ stuff
<pitti> ah
<pitti> lifeless, james_w: wow, vcs imports in LP are really awesome these days! Just tried th "import now" button, and I can watch it getting updated
<pitti> kudos!
<pranay_09> well it's working for some language codes
<ogra> pitti, could you promote u-boot-linaro now that the binaries are out of NEW ? MIR is at bug 613230
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613230 in u-boot-omap4 (Ubuntu) "MIR for u-boot-linaro-omap4-panda because u-boot-omap4 fails to load new kernel after kernel update" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613230
<pitti> ogra: oh, it's literally called "u-boot"? I thought its name was "uboot"
<pitti> ogra: source promoted
<ogra> pitti, upstream calls it "das u-boot" :)
<ogra> no idea how they got to that :)
 * pitti promotes binaries to main in the  accepted queue
<pitti> u-boot-linaro-ca9x4-ct-vxp_2010.06-695-gbd23130-linaro-0ubuntu1
<pitti> what a package name!
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> blame slangasek
<ogra> i think he made that up
<pitti> "I need a package name". "Lets put my cat on the keyboard and see what she comes up with"
<slangasek> hey now
<ogra> lol
<slangasek> I didn't name it, I would've left the 'linaro' out of the package name ;)
<pitti> ogra: is the u-boot-omap4 task relevant? the package already produces a u-boot-linaro-omap4-panda binary, after all?
<pitti> the maverick task is "wontfix", but I'm not clear whether we need a separate source at all now
<ogra> pitti, i want to recycle the bug for u-boot-omap4 rempoval request later
<ogra> we wont need it anymore if the linaro one works
<ogra> that bug evolved quite a lot ... its started with a breakage of u-boot-omap4 the research showed that the old source we have from TI is unfixable and the the linaro one has no such issues which produced the other task
<ogra> then we turned it into a MIR :)
<ogra> and if the build sctipts are changed i'll turn it into a removal
<pitti> ogra: so, want me to remove u-boot-omap4?
<ogra> pitti, only after i changed the build scripts ... and i need a break first
<pitti> ogra: ok; don't worry, just asked if I should clean that up, but it's not that urgent
<ogra> ok
<cnd> pitti, I just did a apt-get update, but libutouch-grail1 amd64 still seems to be in universe
<cnd> should it be in main by now?
<james_w> pitti: nothing to do with me :-) jelmer and the launchpad-code and bzr teams did that
<SpamapS> anybody know a simple way to tell that a conffile has been changed or not?
<soren> SpamapS: Well, it's neither simple or elegant, but grepping for the conffile's name in /var/lib/dpkg/status gives you the md5sum of it at install time. You can use that for comparison.
<SpamapS> soren: I want something I can ask a user to do (so I can see if they've editted it...)
<soren> SpamapS: Ah.
<lanoxx> is a lock-file considered a cache-file? xdg_spec wise
<ScottK> doko: Is there an approved FFe somewhere for dehydra?  There isn't one referenced in debian/changelog.
<doko> ScottK: yeah, I know, one day late. I assume I have to write one
<ScottK> doko: Feature freeze was last week, so a week and a day.
<doko> ok, ok
<glickster> i dont get it mod-wsgi 2.8 has major bugs in it, why wont ubuntu upgrade it to 3.2 in lucid?
<ScottK> glickster: We virtually never do major version upgrades post release.  It might be suitable for backports though.
<ScottK> !backports | glickster
<ubottu> glickster: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<doko> ScottK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/625532
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625532 in Ubuntu "FFe: new package dehydra, taken from experimental and updated" [Undecided,New]
<steve|m> hmm, gcalctool crashes with a Segmentation Fault when entering 26^160
<Neo--> hey guys, anyone knows when do we get to know whether or not our UDS sponsorship request had been approved or denied?
<chrisccoulson> hi, is someone able to approve firefox-3.6.9 for me please?
<sistpoty> chrisccoulson: the release-team tried to hide so far from reviewing (me included :P)
<chrisccoulson> heh ;)
<ScottK> able != willing
<cjwatson> I realise it's a bit late, but merges.ubuntu.com should be working again now (thanks to some advice from Keybuk on safe ways to free disk space)
<Hopsa> cjwatson: Are there any bugs filed againt dhcpd3 ? Its giving me a segfault on Lucid. "Invalid read of size 4"
<Hopsa> cjwatson: Whatever i do to the configuration it segfaults and it doesnt do that on any other of the dists i use.
<ScottK> cjwatson: That's good news.  There's one bugfix merge I've been procrastinating because manual merge would be painful.
<Hopsa> Its a whole mayor version behind schedule
<Hopsa> Remove patches and release a newer binary.
<Hopsa> Also: I noticed that Firefox stopped working on Ubuntu 8.04. -safe-mode would only show a the clear cookies etc things and then it would leave a zombie Firefox.
<Hopsa> Its got something to do with ns_loginit()
<Hopsa> Switching xulrunners made no difference and reinstalling firefox did likewise
<cjwatson> Hopsa: it's not usually a good plan to grab the last person who happened to talk in the channel in the assumption they'll know ;-)
<cjwatson> "Remove patches and release a newer binary" <- no, patches would have been there for a reason, it requires slightly more checking than that particularly in a stable release
<cjwatson> but I know very little about that package in particular
<Hopsa> I know that dhcpd should never need to be segfaulting. Please check this.
<Hopsa> It does this on startup for me on Lucid with all current updates
<cjwatson> I'm afraid I have too much else to do right now
<cjwatson> please simply file a bug
<Hopsa> So servers are not a priority. hmm..
<cjwatson> huh?
<cjwatson> not my priority != not Ubuntu's priority
<cjwatson> I personally do not do much server work
<cjwatson> this is why you generally shouldn't try to grab people personally on IRC until you're quite familiar with the project, but instead go through the bug tracking system
<Hopsa> So ubuntu will only care about desktop things like openoffice and stuff ?
<cjwatson> non sequitur
<cjwatson> you asked me personally
<cjwatson> I do installer and bootloader stuff
<penguin42> Hopsa: People care about servers, there is a #ubuntu-server I think
<Hopsa> Felix sit annus noctus
<Hopsa> Oh, thanks penguin42 !
<penguin42> Hopsa: It's just some people deal with different bits of stuff and the people who know about your problem might not be around
<penguin42> Hopsa: File a bug against the package and they'll get told
<Hopsa> penguin42: Thank you for your help. Ill keep an eye out for people in the know.
<chrisccoulson> Hopsa, rather than "keeping an eye out", you should just file a bug on launchpad
<Hopsa> chrisccoulson: No, id rather get a hold of persons in the know. But thank you.
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that's not the way to do it. imagine if every user did that? it would be chaos. the bug tracker exists for a reason
<penguin42> Hopsa: File the bug anyway, it'll collect a load of stuff and backtrace and stuff which if you are lucky to find someone (which may be rare) it'll help them
<Hopsa> penguin42: I need the unstripped libs for dhcpd to do so. How can i install those ?
<penguin42> Hopsa: You can file the bug anyway - just run  ubuntu-bug dhcpd (or whatever the package is called)
<chrisccoulson> well, you don't need them if you use apport. however, you can find the information you need here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<chrisccoulson> (which you would have been told by someone else if you reported a bug)
<Hopsa> Nope, i need to get the debug info or i cant pinpoint the error. Im developing stuff etc on Ubuntu and most other dists.
<chrisccoulson> ok, so you sound like you don't really need any help then
#ubuntu-devel 2010-08-28
<indy__> Does https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/582199/comments/111 mean I will have to live with the bug until Maverick is released?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582199 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "No sound on Dell Optiplex 380 (ALC269Q, probably new chip)" [Medium,Fix released]
<xnox> indy__, $ update-manager -d #and click to upgrade to 10.10 ;-)
<xnox> but that's if you are ready to upgrade now
<xnox> you can request it to be considered for lucid SRU
<xnox> !SRU
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<chrisccoulson> indy__, use the "Nominate for release" button at the top of the bug
<indy__> xnox, it's vital for me (and every other one using DELL OPTIPLEX 380) to have sound in my system :)
<indy__> so, thanks, I will nominate it ;)
<penguin42> you'd think at some point people would stop reinventing how to do simple sound cards
<halvors> Hi!
<halvors> I have some important issue to report.
<halvors> But didn't got it done by Apport.
<halvors> Language Support does not download new language.
<halvors> This is for the maverick alpha-3 latest update.
<halvors> Is there some developers here who can try get it fixed?
<persia> Could someone give-back gstreamer0.10/powerpc?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer0.10/0.10.30-1build2/+build/1913366
<cjwatson> persia: done
<persia> cjwatson, Thank you.
<cjwatson> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/debian/2010-08-28-windows-applications-making-grub2-unbootable.html - if you suffer from this problem, please follow the instructions in this post to give me more information
<pranay_09> in spd-say the language option is just for the accent change?
<persia> Could someone please give-back utouch-gesturetest/powerpc : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/utouch-gesturetest/1.0.4-0ubuntu1/+build/1917849
<maco> give-back?
<maco> did someone steal it?
<persia> "give-back" is short for "Re-add the source to the buildd queue".
<persia> I suspect it is also the name of some script that is part of the wanna-build suite, or similar, but that's conjecture.
<persia> So, I'm asking that someone with upload rights to that package visit that web page and press the shiny button to get it off the FTBFS list.
<maco> you dont have upload rights to it?
 * vish wonders why persia explained! maco knows what give-back means! we just need to turn-off maco's sarcastic-mode! ;p
<persia> maco, Nope.
<cody-somerville> persia, given-back
<persia> cody-somerville, Thanks.
<maco> persia: i thought you were core dev...
<persia> Everyone thinks that for some reason.
<persia> But until recently, I had no interest in being core-dev.
<maco> i think we assume if youre on the MC youre a core dev
<persia> Silly assumption.  Only folks that actually work on core stuff ought be core-dev.
<maco> other direction...
<maco> more like assumed that only core devs would get elected
<persia> My main motivation for doing it now is that I've become a lot more active in powerpc and armel porting, as well as flavour bring-up, all of which essentially requires core-dev.
<persia> I can't think of any good reason to only select core-dev.  I'd rather have folks from a variety of development groups, so we're more likely to have significant personal history with new applicants.
 * maco headdesks at a PM she just got
<persia> Important to have one or two highly respected core-dev to help ensure that the requirements for core-dev aren't loosened, but even a majority is probably overkill.
<persia> Could someone give-back xserver-xorg-input-evdev/amd64 : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-evdev/1:2.3.2-6ubuntu1/+build/1931435
<cody-somerville> done
<persia> cody-somerville, Thank you.
 * nigelb wonders about the content of the PM
<persia> Something that caused a violation of information hygine.  Be careful: it may be contagious!
<nigelb> heh
<maco> nigelb: female...linux...surprise
<persia> No sexism.
<nigelb> maco: Sigh.
<nigelb> !gender
<ubottu> yes, I can confirm I am a female bot :)
<nigelb> :)
<persia> Ugh.
<vish> argh!
<cody-somerville> moo
<maco> apt?
<nigelb> heh, quite fun.
<persia> No super cow powers.
<vish> super moo! o/
<maco> one of my laptops has an apt-get sticker with a cow on it
<nigelb> one of....
<maco> nigelb: the ugly one with all the stickesr
<nigelb> maco: that /isn't/ ugly :)
<nigelb> Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
<maco> the stickered one is stickered to hide the ugly
<persia> Could someone please give-back unity/amd64 : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/0.2.32-0ubuntu2/+build/1935946
 * persia is stumped at qimageblitz and decides not to submit a patch making it build on amd64/armel/powerpc that breaks i386
<nigelb> persia: you know, with so many of us asuming you're core dev, its probably time to be one....
<persia> That's kinda why I'm working on main stuff now.
<cody-somerville> persia, done
<nigelb> \o/
<persia> Until I get some real work done in main, I wouldn't confirm myself as core-dev, so wouldn't ask others to do so.
<nigelb> You're membership meeting would be one that we'd always point out to others :D
<nigelb> DMB member would still have to come for a meeting and no shortcuts etc.
<persia> There's already examples of that from the MC.
<persia> cody-somerville, Thank you.
<nigelb> Ah.  I'm new.  Haven't looked up MC logs.
<nigelb> s/new/sortof new/
<persia> new is relative.  I'm new in some collections of folks.
<nigelb> :)
<Padhu> Hi
<Padhu> Hi
<persia> Could someone help me understand tickcount?  there's a test that seems like it should pass that fails on powerpc and has been subverted to be wrong by patching on armel and i386.  I'd really appreciate a second pair of eyes on it, to help me understand if it's subtly broken everywhere, or if the logic is wrong.
<persia> The specific point of confusion is in test_difference_wrap in test_tickcount.py (and it's a small enough program it should be obvious from source inspection)
<G> persia: without looking at the source etc, when you are talking about ticks are you talking about time ticks etc?
 * G grabs the source in the meantime
<persia> Yep.
<persia> But there seems to be an off-by-one error somehow.
<persia> That said, I don't see why, since UINT_MAX is the same for every architecture in the set i386/amd64/armel/powerpc
<G> persia: something certainly doesn't look right
<persia> I'm 99% certain the armel and i386 test hack patch is wrong.
<persia> But strangely, it passed on amd64.
<G> well on amd64 I get the right result
<G> yeah
<G> persia: let me hunt down a 32bit VM :)
<persia> Where it gets extra confusing is if I test with numbers in my python interpreter and a short c hack to show UINT_MAX, I can't see why it should pass for amd64.
<persia> (or rather, why the result would be any different than that for powerpc, which is my reference)
<persia> G, Also, thanks :)
<G> persia: the only 32bit VM I have is RHEL... but I'll also have a look on my mac (i386) as well
<persia> I'd suggest trying RHEL first: there's nothing obviously distro-specific in the code.  It might work on MacOS X, but I'm less confident of similarity of python interpreters.
<G> yeah, thats my plan
<nigelb> cjwatson: Re: GRUB and windows - A friend's Dell had a similar issue.  If we booted into windows, it refused to boot up (I suspect GRUB was getting re-written).  He finally reinstalled windows to get the Windows Boot loader
<nigelb> (Of note, Windows 7 Ultimate and Ubuntu Lucid)
<G> persia: ha I see exactly what you mean
<G> persia: how is this for an 'oddity' though:
<G> RHEL5:  tickcount.difference(20, -10)  returns -31
<persia> Do you understand why it does that?  If there's an explanation that makes sense, I think it'd be good to patch it so that 32-bit architectures return 21 and 64-bit architectures return 20.  If there's no explanation, the current patch is hiding bugs.
<G> Lucid 64bit returns 4294967265
<G> there has to be a bug somewhere, I'm sure of it
<persia> -31 is really 4294967264 (uint vs. int)
<G> ahhh good point
<persia> right.  I get 4294967264 on powerpc too, and apparently chuck got it on armel.
<G> let me have a play on OSX
<persia> But when I follow the program logic manually, I get -4294967265
<G> won't take a minute
<persia> (any arch)
<persia> Err, 4294967265
<lanoxx> james_w, u there?
<G> persia: okay, OSX 10.6.4 produces the AMD64 results
<persia> And that's 32-bit OS X?
<G> yeah, OSX Desktop
<G> uname -a shows i386
 * G tries something
<cjwatson> nigelb: can he get me the specific information I requested?
<cjwatson> nigelb: I don't really need more reports without that information - if you look at the bug, I have plenty ;-)  What I need is the specific data that would let me detect the problem.
<cjwatson> nigelb: perhaps reinstall grub2 to recreate the problem, with the aid of a live CD?
<G> persia: I've got an idea...
<G> persia: on a 64bit AMD system.... 'diff' is a 'long int', UINT_MAX is an unsigned_int
<persia> And on a 32-bit system?
<persia> Python is telling me I'm dealing with longs when I use large numbers like that.
<G> hold on, just trying to work out, because in my printf, C didn't complain about using %u for either
<G> which is unsigned int for both
 * persia is trying to build current tickcount against lucid python, expecting it to fail.
<G> even though diff is defined as 'long'
<persia> printf does an implicit cast when needed.
<G> but yeah, using a calculator w/i GNOME works fine, but as soon as I do it in C it goes haywire
<persia> So, in lucid, I get 20, and in maverick I get 21 when executing the test on i386.
<persia> For precisely the same tickcount source.
<persia> Which makes me think that this is a regression in python, or in gcc.  I'm not sure I like that implication.
<G> persia: http://pastebin.com/ijXXZpzJ
<G> I'm hazarding a guess at gcc
<geser> persia: I can reproduce it on 64-bit in maverick (21 != 20) when I change the "I" to "L" in the test suite (use unsigned long instead of unsigned int)
<persia> geser, So, should the testsuite use 'L' and look for 21, or is there a bug in python/gcc somewhere?
<geser> so at least the test suite is buggy to use "uint_max" when the C code uses long
<G> persia: actually, I'm just using the code after 64-bit everywhere now
 * persia is now completely certain the current patch is wrong
<G> so with the same code on: Lucid 64, RHEL5u4 i386, OSX i386, I get 20 on Lucid & OSX, and 21 on RHEL
 * G tries Maverick
<geser> persia: not sure yet, I first tried to reproduce it on 64bit
<G> Maverick 64bit produces 20
<geser> G: with "I" or "L" in the test suite?
<G> geser: http://pastebin.com/6AmrqqFd
<G> geser: I'm removing the python factor all together
<persia> Within lucid/maverick powerpc/armel, all four produce 21.
<G> persia: 32 bit?
<persia> Yes.
<G> my Lucid/Mav envs are 64bit
 * persia doesn't have any ppc64 hardware, and doesn't know of any arm64 hardware
<geser> G: long is 64bit while UINT_MAX only 32bit; make old, new, diff an int and you get 21
<G> gcc converts long to int on 32bit systems?
<geser> hmm, can someone with 32bit check "sizeof(long)"?
<G> will do
<G> 4
<geser> on 64bit you get 8 for sizeof(long)
<G> okay, so the problem is then, that what, the numbers are wrapping around causing an extra figure or something?
<geser> so using UINT_MAX for checking an wraparound of a long looks wrong
<persia> But why would we see *different* behaviour for lucid and maverick for i386?
<persia> With lucid, I get 20 on i386.  With maverick, I get 21.
<G> persia: with that C code I pastebined?
<G> or w/ the python lib?
<persia> With maverick tickcount source.
 * persia runs the C
<persia> Diff = 21, UINT_MAX = 4294967295(maverick-i386)
<persia> Diff = 21, UINT_MAX = 4294967295(lucid-i386)
<G> thats the code that the python unittest is basically running from what I can see
<persia> So yeah, the change is in Python, and it was buggy in Lucid and fixed in Maverick
<persia> So now the test suite is wrong
<G> persia: well the only difference is the tickcounter includes python.h instead of limits.h
<G> errr Python.h
<G> persia: so try changing the #include <limits.h> to #include <Python.h>
<persia> That's not the issue.  maverick/powerpc and maverick/amd64 both have 4294967295 for UINT_MAX in Python.h
<G> and if that doesn't work, change 'diff' to 'PyInt_FromLong(diff)' in the printf
<persia> No, I'm convinced that geser has the right solution: the testcase should use 'L' rather than 'I' and look for 21 rather than 20 on all architectures.
<geser> and also use ULONG_MAX in the C code for the wrap-around
<persia> geser, Do you want to patch it to do that?  I can, but since it's your work, and you have the same incentives as I ... :)
 * G has a look
<geser> can do
<geser> is 21 really the right result for this?
<G> geser: I'm just seeing if I agree :)
<persia> I don't know, which is why I asked for help.  G's C code seems to imply it ought be.
<persia> I'm happy to test-build for all four architectures, given a patch, just to confirm.
<geser> using G C code and using the same computation like the python code for old and new I get also 21
<G> yeah, I'm confident that changing all references from int to long gets 21
<G> going from python to C etc
<geser> I guess 21 is the correct result as ULONG_MAX is odd
<geser> so ULONG_MAX/2 gets round down to the next integer
<geser> which results then to the extra "1" when subtracting later ULONG_MAX from that value
<nigelb> cjwatson: I can try asking him, but I'm not sure if he'll agree.  I'll look at the bug report again to see what you want and try to get it.
<G> http://pastebin.com/JTSkfiem
<G> geser: with that I get consistency between 32bit & 64bit
<G> of course, changing the values for old & new on 32bit to what python says they should be :)
<G> persia: a nice little brain workout none the less :)
<persia> geser, Shouldn't ULONG_MAX *always* be odd?  We start counting at 0 after all.
<persia> But lifeless put 20 originally for some reason, which I'm not sure I understand.
<geser> persia: yes, it's 2^32-1
<geser> or 2^64-1
<geser> with the 0 you get 2^32 or 2^64 numbers
<persia> Well, 2^n-1 is always odd, so 21 feels right.  Doesn't explain why lifeless put 20.
<persia> Unless there was some other bug that got fixed, and he just put the value he was getting.
<cjwatson> nigelb: it's all on my blog
<G> I guess that issue can be fixed once & for all now :)
<cjwatson> nigelb: though comment 4 on the bug is pretty much the same
<nigelb> cjwatson: heh, my ping was in response to your blog post.  You apparently dont have a comment system :p
<G> nigelb: with the amount of spam comments these days I don't blame people who don't have comment systems :)
<nigelb> G: well, comments can be moderated :)
<G> true I guess
<geser> persia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/484917/
<geser> I didn't check if the comment in the test suite is still true
<G> geser: looks right to me
<persia> So we're changing all the ints to longs.  This is fairly normal 64-bit porting.
<persia> On the other hand, why does it work with long and not int?
 * persia still thinks there's a bug somewhere)
<persia> Are we wrapping something unexpectedly?
<G> persia: I'd say so yeah
<persia> Are we converting to the wrong types somewhere?
<geser> persia: the problems seems to be that the code uses long (32bit vs 64bit) while the test case is always done with 32bit
<persia> The usual reason to use long rather than int in 64-bit porting is some sort of implicit pointer case.
<persia> s/case/cast/
<geser> on 32bit archs you the get overflow -> 21 while on 64bit you don't get one -> 20
<persia> Aha!
<persia> Because of differences between Python and C type definitions?
<persia> No just confusion.  Right.  Testing the patch.
<persia> This replaces zul&ttx7s patch, right?
<geser> yes, that replaces the existing patch
<geser> persia: the problem was the the constants used (UINT_MAX) didn't match the data types used (long)
<geser> it worked on 32bit because sizeof(int)==sizeof(long) but that's not true on 64bit
<persia> Right.  I think that's a good place for the bug then :)
<cjwatson> nigelb: yes, it's pretty much deliberate
<cjwatson> persia: you mentioned that printf does an implicit cast - you know that isn't necessarily so, right?
<cjwatson> varargs -> weird
<cjwatson> haven't looked at the code
<persia> cjwatson, It isn't?  I thought that when you used one type in a format specifier and another as an argument, it tried to cast.
 * persia is glad to be disabused
<cjwatson> I'd be surprised
<cjwatson> gcc warns if there's a mismatch
<cjwatson> you could easily be ending up with the first half of a long or something
<persia> And it just happens to appear to work for small numbers.  This makes a lot more sense.
<persia> geser, Builds successfully (including test run) for i386/amd64/armel/powerpc : go for it.
<bilalakhtar> Will bug #619678 need UIFe ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 619678 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "removing the sidebar closing button" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/619678
<geser> persia: do you have a sponsor at hand for it?
<persia> Nope.  It was just bothering me.
<geser> ok, I'll put it into the sponsoring queue and look for a sponsor after the beta freeze gets lifted
<persia> Might get found randomly by then :)
 * persia has had surprisingly good luck with main sponsorships lately
<persia> I can't figure out gawk/amd64 or gcj-4.4/amd64.  likewise-open/powerpc seems to be intentional by upstream.  openjdk-6/armel and openoffice,org/armel are claimed, debian-installer waits on archive recovery, libvirt/powerpc runs into some limitations with how poorly powerpc supports emulation (as a host), and the rest are either depwaits or have bugs awaiting sponsors.
<G> persia: whats this you are refering to?
<G> (you got my attention at libvirt) :P
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ for main.
<persia> But the libvirt one needs someone with a powerpc, and I *think* it really needs work on qemu-kvm, so perhaps not your cup of tea :)
<persia> That said, there's heaps of stuff in universe (which I was saving for tomorrow).  Please feel free to beat me to it :)
 * persia mostly focuses on armel/powerpc stuff anyway, figuring lots of folks have i386/amd64 HW
 * bilalakhtar would like to know if the people over here like repeated questions and if they don't mind, then he would repeat his question
<G> persia: the libvirt test that fails has been disabled in Fedora since 0.8.2
<persia> bilalakhtar, Generally repeated questions are best if one waits 6-30 hours between : I suspect nobody here is able/prepared to answer that.
<bilalakhtar> okay, so my question was difficult :(
<G> persia: check out line #692 http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc//rpms/libvirt/devel/libvirt.spec?view=markup
<persia> G, Works for other arches.  qemu-kvm support for powerpc in Ubuntu was deliberately trimmed by me to get it to build for lucid: as much as anything else, this is a reminder that I should check the status, and maybe build a bit more on powerpc.
<persia> Worst case, yeah, I'll comment out the test, but as seen with tickcount, I generally don't like to do that sort of thing, if changing the code makes the test work.
<G> persia: it's nothing to do w/ kvm support though
<G> libvirt is independant of all virt types
<persia> So if there exists no virt type that can be a host on the system, that doesn't limit libvirt's tests?
<G> 0.8.x added some network filtering features, look like either the feature or the test is plain broken
<persia> Well, it's arch skew, so needs investigation.  Thanks a lot for the hint, but I'm still going to try to figure out why powerpc is different.
<geser> persia: bug 625798 if you want to follow it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625798 in tickcount (Ubuntu) "Don't use int constants with a long data type." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625798
<persia> (but not now: time for food)
 * G has a look at the test upstream
<persia> heh.  Good bug title.
<geser> persia: if you also look at FTBFS in universe: ldc needs an update 0.9.2+hg1650 to fix the FTBFS as we have only llvm 2.7 in the archive and this support for llvm 2.7 got fixed upstream in that revision
<G> persia: I'd take a look at it, but I lack powerpc access but it looks like the XML that libvirt is producing isn't quite what it expects
<cjwatson> persia: what may have been confusing you is the rather arcane bit of the C standard regarding default argument promotions
<cjwatson> persia: lacking a prototype, function arguments are promoted to int or double as appropriate, using the integer promotion rules
<cjwatson> (int> modulo signedness)
<cjwatson> persia: the effect of this is that you can get away with passing char to %d, for instance, but it doesn't work with long types when sizeof(long) > sizeof(int)
<persia> cjwatson, Thanks.  That makes lots of sense.
<cjwatson> thank goodness for gcc warning me about this kind of thing, otherwise I'd never remember ...
<persia> geser, universe is next (as I'm running out of main).  I'll start with ldc tomorrow if someone else doesn't get to it first.
<cjwatson> if somebody wants to take the freej FTBFS, I would greatly appreciate itb
<cjwatson> *it
<persia> That'd probably benefit from the attention of the mozillateam
<cjwatson> mm
 * G looks at some universe FTBFS
<lanoxx> james_w, are you there?
<vish> i'v tried looking for the lp bug about the Maverick iso not booting in virtual box... but i cant find one :(
<vish> does anyone know the bug# ?
 * vish asks here because there was chat about the issue being known..
<sbeattie> vish: hrm, which iso? I managed to boot maverick livecds (i386 and amd64) just yesterday.
<vish> i'v been trying to use testdrive and the desktop iso does not boot and i cannot install either.
<vish> this has been for over a week ..
<sbeattie> vish: hrm, I've not used testdrive, but I think it defaulted to kvm, though could use virtualbox.
<vish> yeah , it seems to default to kvm when we dont have VB , but uses VB if its there..
<vish> does not boot in the sense , it just loads and then hangs later on , either hangs with the wallpaper "Try Ubuntu"  or when i try to install the installer just crashes and again hangs
 * vish tries to read logs again..
<vish> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/08/26/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t20:24
<vish> hmm , so its the installer!
<cjwatson> vish: I thought I'd fixed that by removing bootchart from the CD
<vish> cjwatson: tried today too , doesnt help .. still just hangs with the wallpaper
<sbeattie> vish: but also seems to be a discussion about kvm, not virtualbox
<cjwatson> you could try giving it more memory
<vish> sbeattie: yeah , but it looks like the CD fault than the kvm/VB , [well seemed the same, since i seem the have that prob :D]
 * vish adds memory
<vish> more memory seems to do the trick.. alteast able to get to the installer now .. :)
 * vish fingers crossed
<vish> cjwatson: yup! more memory and i could install/boot! thanks. :)
<james_w> lanoxx: am now
<lanoxx> james_w, ah hi, did you get my patches?
<james_w> lanoxx: to what?
<lanoxx> tilda
<james_w> I don't think so, and that's not a project that I know
<james_w> lanoxx: did you send them directly to me?
<lanoxx> jup, yesterday
<lanoxx> james_w, to @ubuntu.com
<james_w> lanoxx: why did you send them to me?
<lanoxx> you are registered in launchpad as maintainer for tilda
<lanoxx> i wasnt sure to whom else to send it
<james_w> lanoxx: https://edge.launchpad.net/tilda <- that project?
<lanoxx> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/tilda/maverick
<james_w> right, I created the branch, but I created all of them, so I have no specific links to that project
<lanoxx> james_w, ah ok, well then i will send them to ira instead :)
<james_w> lanoxx: please do
<james_w> lanoxx: you can submit a merge proposal for Ubuntu as well if they are bugfixes.
<lanoxx> well the patches move the config files from ~/.tilda to the XDG_CONFIG_HOME, is that considered a fix?
<lanoxx> its just about 20 to 30 lines of code
<james_w> not particularly
<lanoxx> how about maverick?
<james_w> maverick is in feature freeze
<james_w> you would have to ask someone on the release team whether that required a freeze exception or not
<lanoxx> ok, i will do that, after they got accepted in upstream
<mr_pouit> pitti: fyi, the randr 1.2 branch of xfce4-settings has just been merged in master
#ubuntu-devel 2010-08-29
<glickster> hey can i use debian packages in ubuntu?
<lucidfox> vish, regarding the wallpaper: you aren't making the distribution for art critics, you're making it for a diverse community of mostly-casual users
<lucidfox> Critics might appreciate your delightful combination of orange and purple, praising you for the bold and unorthodox artistic choices.
<maco> glickster: source packages, yes. binary ones...no guarantees
<lucidfox> As it stands, the users' gut reaction is "ew", and asking them to go any more elaborate than that would be like asking a non-technical user to write kernel patches.
<glickster> maco, libapache2-mod-wsgi?
 * maco is not a dictionary
<persia> glickster, `apt-cache showsrc  libapache2-mod-wsgi`
<micahg> glickster: if 3.3 has something we need, you should request a sync and provide a reason why it should get into maverick
<micahg> glickster: to answer your original question, since it's sync'd in maverick, it'll probably work, but no guarantees
<glickster> because 2.8 is full of bugs?
<micahg> glickster: maverick has 3.2
 * micahg isn't sure what the backport policy is for apache modules
<micahg> glickster: you can try requesting a backport from maverick
<glickster> i just downloaded it from debian sid, it appears to be working
<vish> lucidfox: seriously, what is the bug about? ;)
<vish> anyway , *i* dint make the wallpaper , so just saying it looks ugly is not a bug
<vish> ugliness lies in the eye of the beholder ;)
<micahg> if a package has the i386 binary in main, is it ok to request the amd64 be promoted as well?
<lifeless> they should both be shouldn't they ?
<micahg> lifeless: I would think so, just wanted to be sure :)
<micahg> lifeless: so I should file an AA bug?
<micahg> seems like an oversight will file new bug and reference MIT
<micahg> *MIR
<persia> micahg, Most of the time, you can get a binary promotion with an archive-admin request here, assuming the source is in main.
<penguin42> Hi yofel
<yofel> hey
<Yaron-Heb_> Hey Guys, does anyone know when is the translation deadline for Maverick?
<c_korn> Yaron-Heb_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
<Yaron-Heb_> c_korn: thanks, you're awesome!
<micahg> persia: k, I filed the bug anyway, if there's no response by tomorrow morning my time, I'll ask in here
<Gujs> hello guys
<Gujs> i would like to rebuild lucid kernel in my ppa
<Gujs> but it always fails
<Gujs> i just downloaded source with apt-get source linux-image-$(uname -r)
<Gujs> and the patch it with one usb hid patch
<Gujs> and change changelog
<Gujs> and debuild -S
<Gujs> and upload it
<Gujs> is this ok
<Gujs> because it fails to build
<penguin42> what error does it give?
<Gujs> here is my ppa https://launchpad.net/~gregor-fuis/+archive/xbmc-pvr/+packages
<penguin42> Gujs: Well that is failing in usb/core/hcd.c so it looks like the change is broke
<Gujs> strange is that it is not the same for i386 and amd64 builds
<Gujs> strange
<penguin42> yeh that is weird
<Gujs> becasu I patch just these files hid-ids.h and hid-topseed.c
<Gujs> because
<Gujs> :D
<Gujs> I would just like to add a path for BTC Remote
<Gujs> the one at the bottom https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/95481/
<penguin42> Gujs: You'll have to find the line its actually giving the error about
<Gujs> "/build/buildd/linux-2.6.32-24.41/kernel/power/snapshot.c:1546: error: expected expression before ';' token"
<Gujs> this is strange
<penguin42> Gujs: Some of that code is ifdef'd (I've not got 2.6.32 in front of me) - in 2.6.35 CONFIG_ARCH_HIBERNATION_HEADER is set for x86_64 but not 32
<Gujs> debian build files in ubuntu kernel are to much for me for now, I just wanted to be sure if the I am doing it the right way
<Gujs> maybe I should try it with latest git 2.6.32
<penguin42> Gujs: I'd try building it locally rather than ppaing it
<Gujs> I would like to ppa it because I have atom based net top which is running ubuntu i386 and I my desktop on which I am building it is running ubuntu amd64
<Gujs> can I build i368 on amd64?
<penguin42> I'm not sure
<penguin42> I'm fairly you can do it for a kernel build, not sure how to do it for packages
<geser> can the archive admin, who rejected my uploaded rebuilds (haskell-{haskore,hjscript}) tell my why they got rejected?
<Gujs> running debuild on local computer gives me the same error
<Gujs> now I am building it with AUTOBUILD=1 fakeroot debian/rules binary-debs
<Laney> geser: presumably because I uploaded those ones too ;)
<penguin42> Gujs: That makes it a lot easier to debug
<Gujs> I know
<Gujs> but it is strange that it gives build error, because it is source from ubuntu repo
<penguin42> Gujs: Maybe built using older tools or a different config
<Gujs> I use all default tools and configs from 10.04, but I will keep trying this until I succeed
<Gujs> AUTOBUILD=1 fakeroot debian/rules binary-debs gives me the same error
<Gujs> I will try to get git now
 * penguin42 is confused - how does Pulse get perms to open the sound card?  the pulse user is a member of audio, but I'm not and the perms on /dev/snd/* are root:audio rw by user and group but not other; pa isn't setuid or setgid
 * penguin42 suspects some consolekit/policykit magic ?
<crimsun_> it's via consolekit.
<crimsun_> the active seat is automatically granted @audio permission
<geser> penguin42: getfacl /dev/snd/*
<crimsun_> see ck-list-sessions and getfacl /dev/snd/*
<penguin42> ooh, yes I see the user:dg:rw-
<crimsun_> also, being a member of @audio is /bad/ as of 9.10
<crimsun_> [for Ubuntu, that is]
<crimsun_> it's bad for Kubuntu as of 10.10
 * penguin42 had tried lsattr which gave an error and didn't know getfacl
<penguin42> crimsun_: SO why is the pulse user a member of audio ?
<crimsun_> hysterical raisins
<crimsun_> someone should probably remove that at some point, but it's more cosmetic than anything
<penguin42> ok, that makes more sense
<penguin42> crimsun_: I found this out trying to help someone who wasn't running gnome; but console-kit should still give them perms on those files shouldn't it? Would that only happen from gdm or would a non-X login also set that up?
<crimsun_> penguin42: assuming "nome running GNOME" also implies "did not have PA installed", then said user isn't relying on ConsoleKit for @audio permissions
<crimsun_> s/nome/not/
<penguin42> crimsun_: Are PA and the use of consolekit related? i.e. if they aren't using PA should consolekit still add the user perms on it so that non-PA stuff works?
<crimsun_> penguin42: in Ubuntu, PA requires ConsoleKit, yes.
<penguin42> crimsun_: But what about the opposite? i.e. to use a non-gnome system without PA will CK still set perms up?
<crimsun_> penguin42: not that I'm aware
<penguin42> hmm actually thinking about it, his case was weirder than that - he had PA but PA couldn't open /dev/snd/* but he could do stuff as root, I wonder if his CK stuff was borked
<crimsun_> that's a probable starting point. There is also a possible regression in lucid-updates' linux 2.6.32-24.* that doesn't seem restricted to audio.
<crimsun_> David H (diwic) is chasing that one.
<penguin42> ah ok
#ubuntu-devel 2011-08-22
<ScottK> cjwatson: Since I don't know C++, there's no risk of me laughing.  Anyone else that wants to complain can write a 'better' patch.  I'll try and test it later tonight or tomorrow.  Thanks.
<lamont> SpamapS: actually, I just cargo-culted the solution that was used in bind9 :)
<lamont> that'll be in -2
<pitti_> Good morning
<mwhudson> hm, i guess upstart sends signals to the entire process group of a process started by 'exec ...' when you say "service $name stop"?
 * mwhudson finds the setsid program
<tkamppeter> pitti, ping
<pitti> tkamppeter: pong
<Sweetshark> moin!
<seb128> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: seb128
<fasta> I get mtrr: type mismatch for e0000000, 10000000 old: write-back new: write-combining.
<fasta> I also set some option in make menuconfig which should work around that.
<fasta> Except, it doesn't.
<fasta> Does anyone know how to fix that?
<tkamppeter> pitti, the CUPS repo is updated to use /var/cache/cups/ppd-updates to manage the updates now. Can you upload it to Debian and Ubuntu? Thanks.
<pitti> tkamppeter: thanks; got your mail, will do ASAP
<seb128> cjwatson, hi, could you have a look to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/ifupdown/oneiric-201108091411/+merge/71877 when you have a moment? It seems that got dropped from the vcs when you did the merge on debian, should that be reapplied is or is deprecated in some way?
<cjwatson> ok, I'll have a look, thanks
<cjwatson> looks fine, I'll remerge
<seb128> cjwatson, thank you!
<pitti> james_w: is it possible to unbreak ubuntu:gvfs? it's out of date
<pitti> tkamppeter: uploaded
<seb128> slangasek, mvo:
<seb128> lp:ubuntu/upstart
<seb128> Most recent Ubuntu version: 1.3-0ubuntu6
<seb128> Packaging branch version: 1.3-0ubuntu4
<seb128> Packaging branch status: OUT-OF-DATE
<seb128> just pointing it because I was reviewed https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/oneiric/upstart/fixes-for-user-sessions/+merge/69125 from the sponsoring queue which got uploaded but the vcs is somewhat outdated
<pitti> apw: hey Andy, how are you?
<pitti> apw: do you have an opinion about bug 812394?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 812394 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Disable hibernate option when it is not supported" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/812394
<pitti> apw: I'm still fairly convinced that hibernation failures are mostly not correlated to the particular board/video card you are using, but much rather to partitioning/swap space/attached USB devices/memleaks/etc.
<pitti> apw: do you know if there is some actual evidence that hibernation failures _are_ specific to a particular platform, and thus would benefit from a whitelist?
<doko> cjwatson, slangasek: shouldn't the klibc symlink be part of multiarch-compat too?
<cjwatson> uh, I'm not really sure what the goal of multiarch-compat is but I think libklibc-dev should be self-contained
<cjwatson> if possible
<cjwatson> siretart: can I apply http://lists.libav.org/pipermail/libav-devel/2011-August/009825.html in Ubuntu?
<cjwatson> siretart: I noticed it while porting xvidcap
<fasta> Is there anyone anywhere who understands mtrr in detail?
<fasta> I have the latest BIOS, latest kernel and still I get an error message I get mtrr: type mismatch for e0000000, 10000000 old: write-back new: write-combining.
<fasta> There are soms posts on the ubuntu forums which say they have a 'work around', but generally people on the forums don't really know what they are talking about... so.
<fasta> Also, this is from 2006: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=115104
<fasta> I'd hoped that such an issue would have been fixed in 2011.
<siretart> cjwatson: in principle yes. usually, the build system experts respond quite quickly, and I'd prefer to backport patches from trunk, so I'd personally wait until tomorrow or so.
<cjwatson> siretart: ok, thanks
<apw> pitti, i am unsure if i have that information.  cirtainly suspend is normally broken cause of driver suspend failures (ie specific h/w not suspending) or bios problems when resuming
<apw> pitti, for hibernate i would expect a large amount if not being able to hibernate are caused by the driver suspend issues
<pitti> apw: that's right, but that shoudn't affect hibernation?
<pitti> does hibernation suspend the hw?
<seb128> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<OdyX> tkamppeter: pong.
<aram> hi. I need some help with building a package (never used source packages before). basically I want to build python2.7 with an additional patch. I did an apt-get source python2.7 and I have rebuilt it with pbuilder (to test the tools).
<aram> but I don't understand where should I put my patch and how to make the .deb package compile using an additional compile option.
<aram> I see a lot of patches in the debian subdirectory, but those seem to have a different purpose.
<aram> so what's the next step after apt-get source? applying the patch manually to the source (not as a debian patch)?
<azeem_> aram: why do you think the patches in the debian subdirectory serve a different purpose?
<azeem_> or rather, what's the purpose of your patch?
<aram> this patch brings dtrace support to python.
<aram> the patches in the debian subdirectory seem patches of patches.
<aram> at least the ones I looked at.
<azeem_> patches of patches?
<azeem_> did you look at the diff.gz?
<aram> yes, at diff.gz
<azeem_> or the unpacked source?
<aram> no, diff.gz
<azeem_> well, then sure, a patch inside the .diff.gz would look like a patch of patch
<azeem_> as the .diff.gz is a patch in itself
<ahasenack> hey guys, is this a new/old way of distributing a debian source package? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-venusian/0.9-1 I don't see a diff, but a "debian" tarball which has the debian/* contents
<azeem_> ahasenack: that's the new way
<StevenK> ahasenack: It's a new way
<azeem_> (dpkg-source -v3)
<ahasenack> oh
<aram> azeem_: okay, thanks, that seem right. so, after I make sure my patch works, I just put it in that subdirectory?
<ahasenack> ok, thanks
<ahasenack> StevenK: does it work in lucid?
<ahasenack> this format
<azeem_> aram: depending on the patch system, you might have to register it somewhere
<ahasenack> I guess so, because dpkg-source -x worked just fine for me when I gave it that package
<mterry> james_w, can you kick deja-dup's DD branch?  it's pretty out of date
<aram> this patch also makes a new --with-dtrace compile time option that needs to be on.
<aram> I guess I need to specify that somewhere.
<jtaylor> aram python2.7 uses quilt to patch
<azeem_> aram: in debian/rules usually
<cjwatson> ahasenack: it should work back to intrepid (but not hardy)
<ahasenack> cjwatson: cool, thanks
<jtaylor> quilt import your-patch should be fine if it does not conflict with the rest of the patches
<cjwatson> I tend to use quilt new and quilt fold
<cjwatson> but ymmv
<aram> so what do I start from, the directory that apt-get source generated (this contains the debian subdirectory) or a vanilla unpack of orig.tar.gz? (I guess the directory from apt-get source, but I want to be sure.)
<cjwatson> the former
<cjwatson> otherwise you have to redo all the packaging work yourself which will be a big pile of no fun with a cherry on top
<aram> yeah, that makes sense.
<aram> one I'm done with this I'd also have to package dtrace for Linux else this would be useless.
<aram> the thing with dtrace for linux is that it needs to be recompiled every time with a kernel update (just like nvidia drivers, I guess).
<cjwatson> dkms is probably your friend
<aram> aah, one more thing I don't understand. the source directory generated by apt-get source contains the vanilla source or it already has applied the patches in debian subdir?
<azeem_> aram: dpkg-source should tell you during unpack
<azeem_> for v3 source packages, the default is to apply the patches
<aram> ok, it applied the patches.
<jtaylor> its a v1 source so they are not applied, also it uses a quite interesting method to generate the quilt series, see line 1011 of debian/rules
<cjwatson> line 1011 of debian/rules> bad sign in itself
<cjwatson> although python2.7 may have a good excuse :-)
<cjwatson> but usually it means "you might have to be pretty familiar with Debian packaging to go anywhere near this"
<azeem_> it's better than "see line 1011 of automake.mk in cdbs"
<james_w> mterry, it looks like there's a filename in the tree that bzr can't handle. That seems odd as it's hosted in bzr isn't it?
<mterry> james_w, upstream is yeah
<james_w> mterry, that's odd then. Is there anything in the source package that could cause this? Perhaps a non-ascii filename used in testing that found its way in to the source package at some point?
<mterry> james_w, no, I don't think so...  maybe...  I think soyez used to make deja-dup.pot files with accents
<mterry> or not soyez, but the build process
<james_w> that could be it then
<james_w> anyway, this isn't something that I can fix right now I don't think
<james_w> https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/831189
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 831189 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "deja-dup fails to import with UnicodeDecodeError in abspath" [Undecided,New]
<smoser> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: smoser
<kirkland> any idea why firefox is acting up in oneiric (been that way for 4 days now);  goes grey/dark for  60s at a time
<davmor2> kirkland: run top normally that means excessive memory / cpu usage
<soren> davmor2: By firefox? Impossible! </sarcasm>
<Laney> doko: can you please get your ghc changes to Debian? I'm a bit disappointed because we were going to be able to sync it next time (and that patch looks like it will make the merge annoying)
<davmor2> soren: :D
<doko> Laney, yes, I can do this, but we'll have a delta with --as-needed anyway
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: that's probably compiz's fault
<Laney> indeed, but as long as it's manageable I can live with that
<doko> I did want to wait until ld defaults to --no-add-needed
<Laney> is that likely to happen soon?
<doko> yes
<Laney> if before P opens then I can live with waiting, too
<doko> hopefully this week
<Laney> ok
<smoser> stgraber, around ?
<stgraber> smoser: yep
 * kirkland goes to u2d
<smoser> could you please take a quick look at https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/ubuntu/natty/bcmwl/fix-793890/+merge/67294 ?
<smoser> it really seems ready to go to me.  you NAK'd it last time but I think its ready.
<stgraber> smoser: I guess it'd be fine if you take lp:ubuntu/natty/bcmwl, manually copy the changes from his branch, fix the version number and push that
<stgraber> it'll be a mess if you just merge it to -proposed and push it
<smoser> stgraber, well you should push to -proposed
<smoser> or just upload and let the importer handle it
<stgraber> as it'll re-create a tag for a release that as far as Launchpad is aware "never existed"
<smoser> stgraber, regarding tag in -proposed, if the importer fails, then it is really a bug in the importer as this is a very real world case.
<stgraber> so the importer will either fail or just overwrite anything in the branch. I guess I'll push that on wednesday when I'm piloting
<stgraber> smoser: well, IIRC in this specific case, the -proposed branch shouldn't exist, so you shouldn't be able to merge anything
<smoser> the -poroposed *should* exist
<smoser> as it there *was* such a version.
<smoser> and the importer correctly found it, merged it, then it was removed from -proposed.
<smoser> and never made it to -updates.
<stgraber> yeah, and in such case, I'd expect the branch to be removed by the importer, which apparently isn't the case
<smoser> well the only thing bad about it is the tag.
<smoser> the rest would be fine.
<stgraber> so now if we want the importer to be happy with the branch we should either just push it and let the importer destroy the branch and create it again or drop the old commit and push the new one instead (making sure to update the tag and everything)
<stgraber> but yeah, I'm happy to have a look at it on Wednesday
<smoser> mdeslaur, https://code.launchpad.net/~psusi/ubuntu/natty/gnome-power-manager/fix-duplicate-battery/+merge/67466 should be marked "merged" ?
<mdeslaur> smoser: yes, but I don't have permissions to do so
<smoser> hm.. me neither.
<smoser> thanks.
<mdeslaur> smoser: np
<doko> pitti, bryceh: any chance to look at the xvfb issues?
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: hmm, i moved to unity2d, same problem in firefox
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: that's weird then, I used to see that all the time when compiz enabled for some weird effect for ages now
<RoAkSoAx> cjwatson: howdy! I'm wondering if there's an issue with the mini ISO'
<RoAkSoAx> cjwatson: howdy! I'm wondering if there's an issue with the mini ISO's since I'm trying to PXE boot and complains that cannot find kernel modules for kernel 3.0.0-5 in the archive
<cjwatson> RoAkSoAx: what URL are you using?
<ahasenack> can I use substvars to set a Build-Depends field in debian/control?
<cjwatson> ahasenack: no
<ahasenack> just checking before I debug further
<OdyX> ahasenack: the Build-Depends field is read before any debian/rules processing, so no.
<ahasenack> ah ;(
<ahasenack> that would explain it
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: i've move to chromium for a bit, seems slightly less crappy
<OdyX> (you could do some control{,.in} dance, but it's often not error-prone)
<ahasenack> I was trying to get build-depends set correctly depending on the ubuntu release
<ahasenack> I guess I will have to play with "|" a bit then, see if it works
<cjwatson> there often isn't a particularly good way to do that - sometimes | works but you may just have to have slightly different source packages
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: it is
<RoAkSoAx> cjwatson: I'm importing a mini ISO into cobbler
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: could you get powernap building again in the ppas?
<RoAkSoAx> cjwatson: but have manually grabbed the initrd.gz and linux from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: yeah I didn't know it was failing and it is due to the change to dh_python2 I believe
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: hmm, okay, could you get that fixed up?
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: i wanted to try the new powernap on my lucid servers here at home
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: will sure though, I think we'll have to keep a different branch for the packaging for maverick/lucid
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: or, can't you just pocket copy the deps into the archive?
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: or do we have to use dh_python2?
<fasta> I get init: udev-fallback-graphics main process (777) terminated with status 1
<ahasenack> how can I build-depends for dh_python2, just the python version?
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: for oneiric+ dh_python2 is the way to go
<fasta> What does that mean exactlly?
<fasta> exactly*
<RoAkSoAx> kirkland: preferably natty as well but dont worry I'll get that fixed ;)
<SpamapS> lamont: excellent. :)
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: coolio
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: thanks!
<cjwatson> RoAkSoAx: sounds like you've got an obsolete copy
<kirkland> RoAkSoAx: i think the easiest would be to get the right python stuff copied to the powernap archive
<cjwatson> RoAkSoAx: the current images there are built against 3.0.0-9
<cjwatson> ahasenack: http://wiki.debian.org/Python/TransitionToDHPython2 should help
<RoAkSoAx> cjwatson: yeah that's why I was wondering if the ubuntu mini iso's are being built against an older linux kernel version, as I have downloaded it today, set my PXE server here, and still its complaining about it
<cjwatson> RoAkSoAx: no, they're built against current, maybe you have a "transparent" web proxy in the way
<RoAkSoAx> cjwatson: I do, though I have cleaned the cache and still get the errors. will try without though it and will let you know
<cjwatson> RoAkSoAx: I'm pretty certain this isn't an archive problem
<RoAkSoAx> cjwatson: ok cool, will verify without using the proxy, thanks ;)
<cnd> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: cnd, smoser
<directhex> pitti, for submitting new info to media-player-info, is it better to create a new entry for the hp pre 3, or add its usb id to the existing entry for the original palm pre?
<cnd> who do I ask about lp:ubuntu/gvfs not being up to date?
<cnd> I know I've asked this before, but I can't remember...
<jtaylor> there was an update 6 hours ago
<jtaylor> 1.9.3 not new enough?
<cnd> jtaylor: hmmm, that's not what I see at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/gvfs/oneiric
<cnd> the top revision I see is156. By Sebastien Bacher on 2011-04-15
<cnd> releasing version 1.8.0-0ubuntu2
<jtaylor> oh the branch, no idea about that
<cnd> ok
<seb128> could a buildd admin bump the build scores for https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/compiz-testing/+builds?build_state=pending ?
<smoser> could someone file bug 831512 against the right package ? I'm not sure what the right package would be.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831512 in xsane (Ubuntu) "xsane dialog has odd scrollbars" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831512
<smoser> seb128, i'm assuming you know, and you just spoke here, so unlucky for you.
<slangasek> SpamapS: can you look at the lp:ubuntu/upstart branch which seems to be missing some of your changes?  (cf seb128's comments above)
<slangasek> doko: I'm not aware of any reason multiarch-compat needs klibc symlinks?
<seb128> smoser, overlay-scrollbar?
<smoser> um... maybe ? look at screenshot . i'm not even cluefull enough to know the term "overlay scrollbar"
<doko> slangasek, that was for the rootskel build failure in the test rebuild
<SpamapS> slangasek: it got all weird because of the missing upstream.. I think we can import-dsc safely now.
<slangasek> doko: I thought we had already fixed the code in klibc's compiler wrapper to do the right thing for multiarch, though
<seb128> doko, could you bump the builds on https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/compiz-testing/+builds?build_state=pending ?
<doko> seb128, done
<seb128> doko, thanks
<slangasek> SpamapS: please do then :)
<stgraber> ScottK: hey! If you have a sec, can you look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/672611/ ? It's the buildlog for iTalc, I'm not too sure what's the problem there :) (as it's qt-related I figured you may know what's going on there)
<jelmer> cyphermox: ping
<ScottK> stgraber: Not looking in the multiarch paths?
<cyphermox> jelmer: pong
<ScottK> It found the headers and stuff so it's at least partly working.
<stgraber> ScottK: hmm, that could be the problem indeed. I assumed it was having a problem finding the headers but it's indeed more likely it's failing to find the library itself
<jelmer> cyphermox: I've updated the evolution-mapi MP. Do you think you'll have time to sponsor an upload, or is it a better idea to subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors?
<ScottK> stgraber: The error is "checking Qt4 libraries... configure: error: *** Couldn't find any Qt4 libraries".
<cyphermox> I can certainly look at it, just give me a minute to finish up with a patch
<SpamapS> slangasek: on it shortly
<stgraber> ScottK: indeed, maybe I should consider trusting configure's output a bit more in the future :)
<ScottK> Well a certain amount of caution is in order ...
<apw> pitti, just pushed up a branch to fix a udev bug, bug #831516 -- would poke the latest uploader but i don't know their nick
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831516 in udev (Ubuntu) "udev missing input_id in initramfs" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831516
<cjwatson> cnd: https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd
<cjwatson> slangasek: klibc> we do now, I just fixed it
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> ok then
<slangasek> coulda sworn that was found and fixed last cycle though
<cnd> cjwatson: if it's in regard to gvfs not being updated in bzr, I've found the issue and am chatting on #launchpad
<cnd> thanks
<cjwatson> cnd: ok, but in future that's AFAIK the canonical place to ask
<cjwatson> slangasek: it broke mid-oneiric
<cnd> cjwatson: ahh, ok
<cjwatson> cnd: (I could be wrong, #launchpad may know better than I)
<elmo> does anyone know offhand what causes /dev/.static/dev to get mounted?
<slangasek> elmo: nothing, in oneiric... and I forget :)
<infinity> adconrad@loki:/usr/share/initramfs-tools$ rgrep static *
<infinity> scripts/init-bottom/udev:mkdir -m 0700 -p /dev/.static/dev
<infinity> scripts/init-bottom/udev:mount -n -o bind ${rootmnt}/dev /dev/.static/dev
<infinity> ^-- From a hardy machine.
<infinity> elmo: ^
<elmo> yeah, i just found that
<infinity> Figured you might.
<elmo> I'm seeing it get created only on lucid based xen guests and can't figure out why
<infinity> One would assume that the final mount -o move is failing for some reason.
<infinity> Not that that's helpful.
<infinity> But you could stuff strace into the initrd and try to step through it by hand.
<infinity> (ick)
<infinity> Actually, wait.  /dev/.static/dev is populated on this hardy machine too, it just doesn't show as mounted...
<infinity> Maybe it's just cosmetic?
<elmo> infinity: oh, yeah, sorry, it is mostly cosmetic, but it's freaking some puppet probe-for-filesystems stuff out we have
<elmo> i could just fix the puppet, but I'm curious as to why this is only happening on these particular hosts, as I suspect it has something to do with how they were created
<infinity> Potentially, yeah.
<siretart> ScottK: sorry, I must have missed your hilight. do you refer to k3b? in any case, feel free to assign the bug to me and I'll have a look
<cjwatson> siretart: I already sent ScottK a patch
<ScottK> siretart: I do.  cjwatson took a stab at a patch that I'm waiting for someone to test.
<siretart> ah, great!
<seb128> could some buildds admin score up the builds on https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/compiz-testing/+builds ?
<seb128> (those are candidate for landing in oneiric before the beta freeze that need testing)
<infinity> seb128: On it.
<seb128> infinity, thanks
<hallyn> doko: so that FTBFS for qemu is due to undefined NULL.  Can I assume that's a toolchain breakage?
<doko> hallyn, no, broken code, most likely missing header
<doko> if it's C++
<smoser> anyone interested in thinking about bug 829238 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829238 in udev (Ubuntu) "natty-server-cloudimg-amd64 throws errors when using a ramdisk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829238
<smoser> short summary is that it seems we might want a 'udev-settle' in initramfs to fix/avoid some of the udev race conditions that we have seen.
<smoser> slangasek, ^ ?
<slangasek> smoser: udev-settle is probably the wrong tool for whatever you're doing
<slangasek> I say this without having looked at the bug yet :)
<smoser> i can accept that, and my initial suspicion was that in this case "sleep 1" == "udev-settle"
<smoser> but i held hope that they'd come accross the actual fix for a number of race conditions i'd seen in udev dying or losing events
<slangasek> smoser: I think this is a bug in udevd itself; since we kill via 'udevadm control --exit', I expect udevd to finish processing any events it's already seen before shutting down
<slangasek> but I don't think I've grokked yet from the bug description what events are lost or why, or what these worker messages are about
<slangasek> hallyn: which qemu FTBFS is this?  Bug #829492 is almost certainly a regression due to multiarchification of pulseaudio
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829492 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "qemu-kvm version 0.14.1+noroms-0ubuntu2 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829492
<hallyn> doko: right you are
<hallyn> doko: and I see the upstream commit fixing it
<smoser> slangasek, i put more references to other bugs where we've seen these messages.  Its definitely race condition.
<hallyn> slangasek: hm, that might have unmasked the problem
<hallyn> slangasek: thx, i'll take a look at that too
<smoser> and people seem to think that all sorts of things "fix" the issue, but imho they do the same as 'sleep 1'
<slangasek> smoser: right, for some hardware-dependent value of '1'
<slangasek> which is why it's the wrong fix
<smoser> right
<smoser> well clearly sleep 1 is
<smoser> but i was hoping that udev-settle might not have been so terrible
<hallyn> slangasek: but i suspect the commit entitled "qemu-kvm: fix pulseaudio detection in configure" will help :)
<smoser> but you seem to think it is.
<slangasek> smoser: but even udevadm settle is wrong, because there's still a race condition between 'udevadm settle' returning, and calling 'udevadm control --exit', when a new event could come in from the kernel and get mis-handled
<slangasek> hallyn: hmm, where is this commit?  The UDD branch for qemu-kvm seems to be out of date
<smoser> thats reasonable, slangasek
<smoser> so, yeah, control --exit needs fixing
<hallyn> slangasek: that commit is in 0.15.0
<slangasek> hallyn: ah, ok
<hallyn> and yes, udd is out of date.  i've tried manually pushing an update, but it still didn't stay in sync
<hallyn> slangasek: i'm hoping Daviey pushses my 0.15.0 merge tomorrow :)
<hallyn> which would auto-fix this
<slangasek> right, there's some bug in UDD affecting this branch, so it's not going to stay in sync on its own for the moment... if we mean to be using that branch, it's probably best to get it synced up, then set a Vcs-Bzr: lp:ubuntu/qemu-kvm as a warning to uploaders
<hallyn> slangasek: i didn't know that was an option.  Sounds good.  (same is true with libvirt-bin)
<slangasek> well, it's still possible some people will ignore the Vcs-* field and upload directly to the archive
<slangasek> but the more we use the fields consistently, the less of a problem that is
<ScottK> If there's no pending changes in the branch how is uploading the package wrong?
<slangasek> well, that assumes people are looking at the branch before uploading, which is less likely to be the case if Vcs-Bzr isn't set
<slangasek> if you've already grabbed the branch to see if there are pending changes, why not commit to the branch?
<ScottK> Because I virtually never upload using the UDD stuff and I'd have to consult documentation on how to do it.  dput I am reasonably familiar with.
<slangasek> hmm, ok
<ScottK> Last I checked, doing stuff with the branch doesn't actually accomplish anything uploading doesn't.
<slangasek> except provide richer change history, yes
<ScottK> In the cases where the upload is complex enough to cover multiple commits.
<ScottK> Agreed there.
<falktx_> hey there
<falktx_> I'm making a lightdm theme, but I just realized I have no idea how to change the default lightdm theme...
<lifeless> barry: so is your lock package overlapping bzr's dir based locks ?
<barry> lifeless: possibly.  mine probably predates it by a decade though :)
<cnd> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: smoser
#ubuntu-devel 2011-08-23
<gnutun> hey all; is this an appropriate place to ask about using debuild to create ubuntu packages? should i ask in debian help?
<highvoltage> gnutun: not in this channel, but there will be many people willing to help in #ubuntu-packaging and #ubuntu-motu
<gnutun> ok thanks highvoltage
<highvoltage> (it's night time in a lot of europe/us right now so you might want to hang around a bit for a response)
<RAOF> gnutun: Depending on what your goal is - if it's a PPA or third party deb you want to make, #ubuntu-packaging is the right place.  If you want to get a new package into Ubuntu, or update an existing package, #ubuntu-motu.
<gnutun> ok cool
<gnutun> thx RAOF, its the former, so ill head over there
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> directhex: if it has a considerably different name, I'd copy the file, so that it looks better in the UI
<faina> good morning
<pitti> apw: ah, thanks; will upload the udev branch
<micahg> pitti: so, do you have a minute to chat about Maverick and the final langpack run?
<pitti> micahg: sure
<micahg> pitti: ok, so, what do you need from me, just a new Firefox in -proposed?
<pitti> micahg: yes, that would do; that will also build firefox-locale-XX, right?
<micahg> pitti: yes
<pitti> micahg: with more effort I can also prepare the new langpacks against a PPA, but -proposed would be perfect
<micahg> pitti: ok, so I'm off until Thursday, I can get it built and copied then, so Friday morning you should be able to kick off the translations builds
<pitti> sounds good
<micahg> then Monday, I figure I can put out a call for testing for Firefox + rdepends?
<pitti> yes, it should have plenty of time for building over the weekend
<micahg> ok, that gives us 1 wk in -proposed + 3 weeks in -updates before the next release, should be good
<micahg> pitti: so, I'm going to build everything in one of the security PPAs, so I can pocket copy the stuff that won't need any changes for 7 to -security w/out needing to rebuild, sound ok?
<pitti> oh, sure
<micahg> but that copy won't happen until we release 7 :)
<micahg> pitti: thanks, will be in touch later in the week then
<andy753421> Is it too late to get a new package included 11.10? (it was just recently included in debian unstable)
<micahg> andy753421: you need a freeze exception
<micahg> !ffe | andy753421
<ubottu> andy753421: Feature Freeze Exception. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess for the freeze exception process.
<andy753421> micahg: thanks, are exceptions generally granted? (It looks like I would need to have it all done by the 25th which is the BetaFreeze?)
<micahg> andy753421: depends on the possible impact on the rest of the archive
<micahg> andy753421: if minimal, generally yes
<andy753421> micahg: i don't think there really would be, it's one package plus two dependencies, none of which were previously in ubuntu/debian
<andy753421> so i don't think it would be likely to break anyting
<dholbach> good morning
<directhex> pitti, well, there's a Palm Pre entry, but the HP Pre 3 has a different usb id
<smb> @pilot-in
<udevbot> Error: "pilot-in" is not a valid command.
<pitti> smb: <at> pilot in
<smb> pitti, thanks
<pitti> smb: <at>pilot in
<smb> @pilot in
<pitti> sorry
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: smoser, smb
<pitti> apparently smoser forgot to check out :)
<smb> pitti, Its just that it seems to slip my memory every time
<apw> pitti, man you get up early :)  thanks
<pitti> apw: in fact I got up almost an hour later than usual :)
<pitti> I slept in a bit, couldn't sleep well last night (way too hot..)
<apw> pitti, heh, i'll have to start calling you pp (in honour of jj's mad time keeping)
<soren> pitti: Is there a heat wave in Germany or are you somewhere else these days?
<pitti> soren: south Germany, yes
<pitti> well, I don't want to complain; until now we had a very cold and wet summer
<soren> pitti: Yeah, same here.
<soren> pitti: The cold and wet summer, that is. Not the heat wave :)
<soren> pitti: It's been a steady 19-20 degrees here for a while.
<ttx> it's been a steady 38-40 degrees here for a while.
<hdmueller> hi there, could annyone please point me to a channel where to ask questions about packaging ?
<tumbleweed> hdmueller: #ubuntu-packaging
<hdmueller> thanks !
<cjwatson> rsalveti: do you know what the right way to fix https://launchpadlibrarian.net/75657935/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.openscenegraph_3.0.0-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is likely to be?
<cjwatson> hm, possibly define OSG_GLES2_AVAILABLE on armel, shame it takes forever to build
<cjwatson> jbicha: is https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubiquity/allow-user-entries-in-PartAdv/+merge/72525 intended to fix bug 831431, by any chance?  it would be nice if you could add a debian/changelog entry
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831431 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Cannot manually specify a mount point in the manual partitoner" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831431
<jbicha> cjwatson: thanks, I neglected to look for a bug before finding a fix for it, added the changelog entry
<cjwatson> rsalveti: (no rush, I've just removed it for now as investigation suggests that this needs non-trivial porting and I can't imagine it being very important)
<cjwatson> jbicha: cool, will review, thanks
<diwic> how does one reboot in Ubuntu 11.10?
<diwic> (from the GUI)
<doko> ev, good/bad missing replaces
<tumbleweed> diwic: button in the shut down dialog
<nigelb> I'm glad its hapening to a lot more people :)
<diwic> tumbleweed, thanks. This does not seem to work from LightDM though?
<ev> doko: I'm not seeing it. gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: Replaces: gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (<< 0.10.22-2ubuntu3)
<doko> ev: hmm, don't have the log anymore, just had a compiz crash and rebooted. but it was there :/
<ev> doko: okay, I'll dig into it
<ev> thanks for the heads up
<Quintasan> Ehh. Can anyone tell me if I can stay within borders of USA without a guardian if I am 18 years old?
 * Quintasan tried to call his embassy but he infoline is not working
<nigelb> You should be. As long as you have a visa. (Obviously I'm not a lawyer)
<nigelb> *valid visa
<tumbleweed> Quintasan: I was in the US on my own, >18, <21, without issues, but no clue on the law here
<Quintasan> nigelb: Cool, well, I wonder if I can even schedule a meeting for visa
<Quintasan> First steps involve filling in some documents over the internet
<Quintasan> But then you have to call them and schedule a metting with consul.
<Quintasan> But guess what, the number is not working
<Quintasan> :/
<tumbleweed> Quintasan: check the website. Our US embassy doesn't answer their phones, web only
<nigelb> Quintasan: you have to pay somewhere in between there
<Quintasan> tumbleweed: Did you get touristic or work-related visa?
<nigelb> Quintasan: attending a conf?
<Quintasan> nigelb: UDS most likley
<Quintasan> If I get sponsorship and visa -_-
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> the second one is more worrysome.
<Quintasan> Indeed
 * nigelb got visa for Budapest the day before first flight.
<tumbleweed> Quintasan: work
 * Laney wonders where he put the ESTA information
<directhex> you can re-print it if you re-log-in
<Laney> that requires the number
<Laney> ah, there's a button
<doko> Laney, how much do you care about mono/dlr-languages?
<Laney> doko: personally, not so much
<Laney> doko: directhex had a look at the new upstream though
<doko> ahh, ok. if nobody is interested in debian, then I maybe would package ironpython separately again
<directhex> doko, it's an easy build from a clean source tree. what's on github is far from clean. basically, someone needs to spin up a distributable tarball - one without chunks of silverlight in it, for example - from there it's an easy xbuild
<directhex> i don't plan to maintain it without sponsorship
<doko> directhex, join the group ;)
<jjardon> Hi, my oneiric box stop booting today. Seems that lightdm is restarting all the time. CTRL+ALT+Fx doesnt work. Any idea about what can be the problem?
<Laney> can someone look at mono.reflection in NEW?
<cjwatson> Laney: accepted
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> db4o is the last package for the mono transition, modulo some source and binary removals
<Laney> :-)
 * Laney really goes to lunch
 * directhex is sitting & being twitchy, waiting for touchpad related news
<akarsh> Hello everyone...I am new to ubuntu development. I needed some help
<akarsh> any developers here?
<jelmer> hi akarsh
<jelmer> akarsh: please ask your question - if there's somebody around who can help they'll reply
<akarsh> hello
<akarsh> i am palnning to start with ubuntu development. I need to know where to start.
<jelmer> akarsh, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu is a good start
<akarsh> well i have gone through it i have setup my system with everything also i have stup my launchpad account
<akarsh> i need to know the way forward.
<jelmer> akarsh: What would you like to work on, what are your skills?
<akarsh> well i know c,c++,java,python But i would prefer to work on Python.
<akarsh> Mainly my intentions are to understand the way linux works by this process. Pleas suggest which way to procede
<cjwatson> most people simply start by finding something that annoys them that they want to fix, fixing it, sending the fix to wherever's appropriate (bug report, upstream mailing list, whatever), and repeating
<cjwatson> there is no master task list from which people will assign you things to work on - it all works much better if you find things that interest you
<akarsh> okay thanks.  I was going through a beginners project
<akarsh> (Stipple)....can i just start looking into the code and maybe change the code
<cjwatson> that's how it usually works, yes :)
<akarsh> okay cool. thanks for your suggestions. will try to do that.
 * cjwatson is pretty sure that e.g. jelmer and me started in completely different places given different interests
<cjwatson> remember you can run 'apt-get source' any package name and look at its code
<akarsh> okay...thats a great start. i wanted to know if what i was doing was right. so will start looking into code for starters now. Thanks for you suggestion
<smoser> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: smb
<Daviey> doko: Can you give back https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20110816/+build/2699238 ?  It built fine locally.. :/
<doko> Daviey, could you save the build log first?
<ahasenack> so by convention packaging-only branches have the debian directory with its files, and not just the files directly?
<Daviey> doko: done, will attach to bug
<ahasenack> i.e., a packaging-only branch will have "debian/rules", and not just "rules"?
<Daviey> ahasenack: no, packaging-only normally has ./debian/rules
<ahasenack> Daviey: ok, so "debian/" is included
<Daviey> ahasenack: normally, but note that you cannot currently make it a UDD branch.
<ahasenack> Daviey: I wonder how that works with nesting in launchpad recipes, i.e., "nest packaging lp:~foo/bar/packaging-only debian"
<ahasenack> Daviey: would that create "debian/debian/rules"?
<doko> Daviey, given back
<ahasenack> maybe I need nest-part, hmm
<Daviey> doko: thanks
<Daviey> ahasenack: yeah, see the nest-part at https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes ?
<ahasenack> Daviey: ok, thanks
<ahasenack> Daviey: fwiw, I have been omitting the debian/ directory in my packaging branches, I thought it was superfluous
<Daviey> ahasenack: I think it's a convention rather than a rule.
<RawChid> Hello, anyone here who I can talk to about OneConf?
<RawChid> I'm looking at the strings of oneconf. And see a lot of sentences don't begin with a  capital. Some of them are shown in --help, and some of them are just "print"  messages.   I think about translating them all Capitalized. What do you think?
<RawChid> I can contribute by "improving" the original strings if you want.
<RawChid> I see pitti has done a commit :P
<pitti> to oneconf? I don't remember, and I don't really know anything about it, I'm afraid
<pitti> ah, I might have done a GI fix
<seb128> ev, can you handle bug #831897
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831897 in gst-plugins-good0.10 (Ubuntu) "package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.30-1ubuntu5 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstjpegformat.so', which is also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.22-2ubuntu3" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831897
<seb128> ?
<seb128> oneconf> open a bug, didrocks will be back next week
<RawChid> Okay seb128
<smb> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<ev> seb128: yes, will do
<seb128> ev, thanks
<doko> Sweetshark, what are you trying to do with libgcc_s.so.1 on armel? the .so file is a linker script, not a symlink
<doko> lo ...
<ogasawara> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: ogasawara
<Sweetshark> doko: since we are searching for libgcc_s.so not libgcc_s.so.1 in the system that might be a nonissue.
<doko> Sweetshark, yes, and apparently you do *copy* the .so, which is wrong
<Sweetshark> doko: how so?
<doko> Sweetshark, look at the linker script
<doko> Sweetshark, see bug #832121, somebody did "cleanup" too much in 3.4.x ;p
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832121 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Oneiric) "libreoffice ftbfs on armel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832121
<Sweetshark> doko: no, the root cause is a change in our gcc -- elsewhere (RHEL, SUSE) there is no symlink and no filename versioned libgcc file
<Sweetshark> doko: that still worked fine on natty IIRC.
<doko> (natty)doko@kakadu:~/gcc/4.6$ ls -l /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabi/gcc/arm-linux-gnueabi/4.5/ | grep libgcc_s
<doko> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root     135 Apr  2 20:49 libgcc_s.so
<doko> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      36 Apr  9 13:55 libgcc_s.so.1 -> /lib/arm-linux-gnueabi/libgcc_s.so.1
<doko> Sweetshark, nice try, but please try harder next time ;p
<Sweetshark> doko: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/bootstrap/commit/?id=aff9db4f58e6cd1015866e169a1a909fd6f31590
<doko> Sweetshark, don't see a relevant thing there, but in this case, if libgcc_s.so is a file and *not* a symlink, it should copy the file, and not automagically symlink
<doko> Sweetshark, and for the powerpc build failure it would be nice to have the command line for the ld call
<SpamapS> slangasek: FYI, upstart branch back in sync w/ archive.
<slangasek> SpamapS: huzzah, thanks :)
<doko> Sweetshark, is it intended to build lo with -Os on ix86?
<mdeslaur> slangasek: can a amd64 package depend on i386 packages?
<infinity> mdeslaur: Implicitely, not explicitely.
<mdeslaur> infinity: what do you mean by that?
<infinity> mdeslaur: As in, you can depend on a package that only exists on i386, and it'll work out, but you can't explicitely depend on package:i386
<mdeslaur> infinity: hmm...not exactly the answer I wanted
<mdeslaur> infinity: so, I need flashplugin-installer to depend on nspluginwrapper on amd64 only
<mdeslaur> infinity: so either I get rid of the amd64 package, and figure out a way to have an arch-specific depends
<infinity> mdeslaur: Which, in turn, depends on nspluginviewer, which is i386 only.
<mdeslaur> infinity: or I keep the amd64 package, depend on nspluginwrapper, but need a way to specify :i386 depends
<infinity> No you don't...
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, infinity - that bit seems to work already (ie, installing flashplugin-installer pulls in nspluginwrapper, which pulls in nspluginviewer:i386 and all of it's i386 dependencies)
<infinity> If you keep the amd64 package, it depends on nspluginwrapper, and you're done.
<infinity> chrisccoulson: Indeed.
<mdeslaur> infinity: no, because the amd64 package won't pull in all the required i386 libraries
<chrisccoulson> what's broken is that flashplugin-installer needs to pull in libnss3:i386
<chrisccoulson> ^^infinity
<chrisccoulson> that used to be shipped in ia32-libs
<chrisccoulson> and now flash is broken on amd64, because nothing pulls it in
<chrisccoulson> which i s breaking firefox ;)
<infinity> Perhaps nspluginviewer needs to depend on libnss3?
<chrisccoulson> infinity, not really. that's technically incorrect, as it doesn't need it
<chrisccoulson> the flash plugin does though
<infinity> Fair enough.
<chrisccoulson> flashplugin-installer:i386 does pull it in though
<mdeslaur> infinity: any ideas?
<infinity> Well, then.  flashplugin-amd64 depends flashplugin-installer (>= [version where you stop building it on amd64], nspluginwrapper
<infinity> And then you die a little inside.
<infinity> And try to figure out an upgrade path.
 * mdeslaur dies a little inside
<mdeslaur> ideally, the flashplugin-installer package would go away completely, and we would only keep adobe-flashplugin in partner
<infinity> Ideally, sure.
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: I know! make firefox amd64 depend on nspluginwrapper :P
<chrisccoulson> lol
<infinity> Is there a reason we don't just ship the actual amd64 build of flash?  Just fear of unsupported betas, I guess? :/
<chrisccoulson> over my cold hard dead body ;)
<chrisccoulson> (to firefox depending on nspluginwrapper)
<mdeslaur> infinity: it's not updated for security fixes, and I'm pretty sure adobe won't let us redistribute it
<infinity> Fair on both counts.
<mdeslaur> hopefully they'll ship flash 11 before we release oneiric
<infinity> But yeah, given the current wrapper/viewer situation, something evil's going to happen to transition flash to multiarch.
<chrisccoulson> i've subscribed you both to bug 830802
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830802 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu Oneiric) "firefox freezes and grays out" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830802
<chrisccoulson> the freezing is a symptom of flash going crazy ;)
<infinity> I guess if you don't want the above evil situation, you could create a "flashplugin-installer-noreally-we-mean-it-this-time" cause there aren't enough flash packages depending on flash packages already.
<infinity> Then you can keep -installer on both arches, have both depend on the (i386-only) new package, and make it work.
<mdeslaur> I need to think about that a minute
<mdeslaur> you're confusing my feeble brain
<mdeslaur> infinity: oh, interesting
<infinity> mdeslaur: Basically, move the current installer code from -installer to -downloader (or something) and make it i386-only, with correct dependencies.  Then turn -installer (on both arches) into a metapackage that just depends on -downloader and (on amd64) wrapper.
<infinity> mdeslaur: That gets you a smooth upgrade path on both arches.
<mdeslaur> infinity: yes, very interesting...that would do the trick
<mdeslaur> infinity: thanks!
<micahg> mdeslaur: I think slangasek has a test version of the fixed installer with dependencies in his multiarch PPA
<mdeslaur> micahg: oh? thanks, I'll go take a look
<mdeslaur> micahg: wow, that's a creative way of solving it :P
<mdeslaur> slangasek: any plans on releasing that package to the archive?
<mdeslaur> micahg: thanks for pointing that out, I was about to work on it
<infinity> mdeslaur: More or less the same as my solution, I guess, but without adding (yet) another package. :)
<mdeslaur> infinity: yeah, slightly more twisted, but no extra package
<cjwatson> #copy-package.py -y -b -s maverick-security --to-suite maverick-updates -e 1.2.11-6+squeeze2build0.10.10.1 wireshark  # maverick-updates: 1.2.11-6+squeeze1build0.10.10.1
<cjwatson> #copy-package.py -y -b -s natty-security --to-suite natty-updates -e 1.1.1-0ubuntu1~11.04.1 icedtea-web  # natty-updates: 1.1~20110420-0ubuntu1.1
<cjwatson> jdstrand: ^- do you know what should be done with those?  I've been seeing that for a while
<jdstrand> cjwatson: the former, yes-- it should definitely be copied
<jdstrand> cjwatson: the latter I will defer to sbeattie. istr a new package needing to be created, but will let him comment
<jdstrand> cjwatson: I just took care of wireshark
<cjwatson> thanks
<sbeattie> yes, icedtea-web should go to natty-updates.
<jdstrand> I'm right there
<jdstrand> I'll do that too
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jdstrand> cjwatson: thanks for bringing it up. maybe I should run a similar cron job :)
<cjwatson> excellent, less mail for meeeeeee
<jdstrand> :)
<cjwatson> 5 * * * *       /home/lp_archive/bin/copy-report 2>/dev/null
<cjwatson> FWIW
<jdstrand> cool, thanks
<ogasawara> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<statik> hey there smoser, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/euca2ools/+bug/826022 doesn't seem to be fixed for me. I added a comment to the bug; any other info I could provide for you?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 826022 in euca2ools (Ubuntu) "euca-modify-image-attribute usage raises error" [High,Fix released]
<sgnb> infinity: how is ocaml stuff going on?
<Daviey> statik: confirmed.
<smoser> statik, checking
<Daviey> smoser: I confirmed rev454 upstream fixed it for me, either the archive snapshot is not >454, or upstream reintroduced it.
<smoser> its probably a freaking quilt issue
<infinity> sgnb: I was planning to finish it today, but am/was off sick.  Feeling a bit better though, so I might do it anyway. :P
<statik> Daviey, smoser: thanks for confirming. i didn't flip the bug back to open, don't hesitate to ping me if you want me to test it later
<Daviey> smoser: debian-changes-2.0.0~bzr464-0ubuntu1
<smoser> its fixed locally
<smoser> you just need my version
<smoser> euca2ools (2.0.0~bzr464-0ubuntu2) UNRELEASED; urgency=low
<smoser>   * fix bad upload that had patch a debian-changes patch which reverted
<smoser>     the intended changes
<smoser> :-(
<cr3> smoser: a patch of a patch? :)
<smoser> yeah, bad grammer there (and i fixed that, am uploading now)
<Daviey> automatically generating debian-changes-* without a loud warning was not the brightest idea.
<Daviey> I think doing that has bitten too many peope.
<cjwatson> dpkg-dev is gradually moving away from that practice I think
<cjwatson> there are at least now options you can set to make it not do that
<Daviey> dave@voodoo:~$ cat ~/.devscripts
<Daviey> DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS="--source-option=--abort-on-upstream-changes"
<smoser> yeah, i used to have that... unfortunately i had to diable it at some point i forget why
 * smoser adds it back
<Laney> at least lintian issues a warning now
<seb128> Laney, hey
<seb128> Laney, will you do the tomboy update? ;-)
<Daviey> Laney: Who looks at lintian warnings anyway?! :)
<faina> --abort-on-upstream-changes will keep a package from dropping a debian-changes-* into debian/patches/?
<Laney> me...
<slangasek> mdeslaur, infinity: unfortunately, that twisted way of solving it doesn't actually *work*; apt-gets confused and won't let the packages be installed together
<slangasek> er
<slangasek> apt gets confused
<slangasek> :)
<Laney> seb128: and yes
<seb128> Laney, thanks ;-)
<Laney> maybe tomorrow, maybe tonight, who knows ...
<mdeslaur> slangasek: oh, :(
<seb128> no hurry
<Laney> bdrung: cody-somerville: dmb vote ping
<infinity> slangasek: So, my slightly-less-twisted-but-similar method might do the trick better?
<slangasek> might, though I'd like to get to the bottom of what apt's thinking
<slangasek> it just means I'm not going to upload it to the archive yet :)
<slangasek> what was your method?
<infinity> slangasek: Moving the installer/downloader code to flashplugin-downloader:i386, and making -installer be a metapackage that depends on that, plus in nspluginwrapper on amd64.
<infinity> s/plus on/plus in/
<infinity> Err.
<infinity> I can't brain today.
<infinity> I have the sick.
<infinity> slangasek: Pretty much the same/similar idea to yours, but without reusing the old -nonfree packages for nefarious purposes and (I suspect) creating dependency loops that make apt shoot itself.
<slangasek> infinity: right.  that should do the job then
#ubuntu-devel 2011-08-24
<linux_is_my_hero> my cups client computer sees the shared printer on the cups server, but when attempting to print, the job is sent and nothing happens.
<pitti> Good morning
<andy753421> I have a package and two dependency packages which are new to ubuntu that I would like to file a feature freeze exception for. Should I submit one bug on launchpad for all three packages, or three separate bugs?
<micahg> andy753421: I'd suggest using requestsync -e to file the requests and mention the main bug in the ones for the dependencies
<micahg> andy753421: and the dependencies in the main one
<geser> micahg: wouldn't it be better to only have one bug? as either all 3 packages go in or none?
<micahg> geser: well, if there are problems with any of the packages, it could get messy
 * micahg should state that he is not a release team member
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> but you could see that in the one bug and don't sync the other parts by missing to check all three bugs
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey geser
<micahg> geser: if sponsors aren't reading the bugs , don't we have bigger problems?
<geser> micahg: true
<pitti> dear LP, please stop timing out; love, pitti
<pitti> I wish the timeout would be raised at least for launchpadlib
<pitti> scripts keep breaking because of it :/
<geser> dholbach: I was visiting FroSCon this weekend and saw an interesting talk about "Perceptions of rudeness in Free Software communities" (http://programm.froscon.org/2011/events/717.html). The study was done on some Ubuntu forum threads. The talk was recorded but the recordings aren't online yet.
<micahg> pitti: file bugs and sic bryceh on the LP team :)
<pitti> it times out during searchTasks(), and I'm trying to run the retracer to reduce that very number of searchTasks() results :)
<dholbach> geser, thanks a lot for the pointer - I'll check it out
<bryceh> pitti, yeah the lplib timeouts have been annoying me as well
<pitti> unfortunaetly there is no "limit" argument for searchTasks(), that'd be sufficient for me
<bryceh> if you ever find an oopsid, file a bug report on it; they always automatically set those to critical
<pitti> x-lazr-oopsid: OOPS-2062O19
<pitti> ah, nice, it's part of the exception
<pitti> will do
<lifeless> we'll probably move that to X-Oops-Id: soonish
<lifeless> pitti: we need to talk about apport & crash dump formats at some point. Maybe in 3-4 weeks?
<pitti> lifeless: sounds good
<lifeless> pitti: searchTasks when you're iterating on a big set can end up with things that take *minutes*: raising the timeout there would have a very negative effect on LP as a whole
<pitti> lifeless: do you know a workaround?
<pitti> lifeless: something that just gives me the first 75 or 50 results or so?
<lifeless> don't iterate the entire batch :)
<lifeless> result = searchTasks()[:75] ?
<lifeless> anyhow, adeuring is -very- close to having something that will handle offsets much much better
<lifeless> it won't fix plain-poor queries but it will help large batches quite a bit
<pitti> lifeless: [:75] is too late, though -- searchTasks() itself times out, not the iteration over the result
<lifeless> pitti: that means the first batch is failin
<lifeless> what are you searching for ?
<pitti> lifeless: reproducer in bug 832566
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832566 in Launchpad itself "often times out on searchTasks()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832566
<pitti> x-lazr-oopsid: OOPS-2062O19
<pitti> sorry
<pitti> essentially: lp.distributions('ubuntu').searchTasks(tags='need-amd64-retrace')
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> thats a dupe
<lifeless> its utterly buggered :(
<pitti> lifeless: seems I can work around it by using "created_since='2011-08-01'", and then working my way backwards
<lifeless> cool
<andy753421> micahg: does this look alright? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/832611
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 832611 in Ubuntu "Sync aweather 0.5-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]
<andy753421> i forgot the -e flag, so i added ubuntu-release manually afterwards..
<Laney> you should request those other syncs which need doing first separately
<Laney> s/separately/explicitly/
<Laney> ah, you did :-)
<cjwatson> janimo: have you actually uploaded livecd-rootfs 2.32?  I don't see it in LP, but the branch is tagged
<cjwatson> oh, maybe I'm just impatient.  /me recalculates timezones
<janimo> cjwatson, yes, uploaded a few seconds afetr bzr push
<janimo> cjwatson, is there a recommended sequence? The other presumably :) ?
<ricotz> janimo, hello, could you take a look at the armel build of cogl? of course the configure-flags arent right yet http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome/packages/experimental/cogl/debian/rules?r1=29484&r2=29483&pathrev=29484
<ricotz> janimo, forgot this link https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cogl/1.7.6-1/+build/2739607
<janimo> ricotz, I know we had issues with clutter in Ubuntu because of the backends
<janimo> for some reason I thought cogl was part of clutter source
<ricotz> janimo, i cant build it myself
<ricotz> the cogl lib was split out from clutter
<janimo> ok
<ricotz> and is now a dependency of it
<janimo> I know with clutter we were waiting for an upstream fix that adds proper runtime backend selection (GL/GLES)
<janimo> the patches in clutter were always messy
<janimo> as we needed GLES/EGL to act as if it were GL/GLX but only at the .so naming level, even if the lib itself at the source level had certain assumtions - include file names IIRC
<ricotz> janimo, i removed quite all ubuntu patches for clutter since they were obsolelete or consider not-needed by upstream
<cjwatson> janimo: no no, don't worry, you did it right, I just miscalculated the timezone and thought you'd uploaded an hour or more ago
<cjwatson> janimo: push before upload is correct
<janimo> ricotz, if they are obsolete that is great - if it means it builds fine with GLES2 on arm
<cjwatson> (or rather, thought you'd tagged an hour or more ago)
<ricotz> janimo, yes, so that is why the configure flags specific for armel
<janimo> cjwatson, ok. UDD still confuses me, and actually this was the first time I got it done with a single bzr uncommit. I am almost conversant in UDD now :)
<ricotz> janimo, it would be great if you could testbuild it with the changed configure-flags
<janimo> and one bzr tags --delete, oh well
<ogra_> hmm, are environment variables not handed through from toplevel to bottom in live-build ?
<cjwatson> generally should be
<ogra_> i added FLASH_KERNEL_SKIP=1 to the config a while ago, but flash-kernel is still executed
<ogra_> argh !
<janimo> ricotz, sure, I'll test and see if I find the issue
<cjwatson> you forgot to export it
<ogra_> thinko ! ... update-initramfs is run chrooted
<cjwatson> however - they aren't passed into the chroot
<ricotz> janimo, i could do it myself if there is a easy way to set up some armel-thing with qemu-system-arm?
<cjwatson> I already abandoned that solution to that problem
<ogra_> no, i export it, but it doesnt seem to be hadned over by the chroot cmd
<cjwatson> I thought I'd fixed it for you some other way
<ricotz> janimo, thanks
<cjwatson> I definitely remember looking at that and I'm sure I ticked it off my list
<ogra_> well, i'll think about it, we werend in massive need of it until now
<ogra_> with the mx5 artch showing up it will try to update the buildd bootloader now though
<ogra_> *weren't
<cjwatson> yes, I fixed it with a diversion in live-build
<cjwatson> you might like to investigate why that isn't working
<cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630350
<ubottu> Debian bug 630350 in live-build "divert flash-kernel aside while building the chroot" [Normal,Fixed]
<cjwatson> it's possibly because lb_binary doesn't call lb_chroot_dpkg (and probably shouldn't) - I suggest you talk with Daniel Baumann about the best place for that diversion to go
<cjwatson> a diversion is definitely a better way to handle this than an environment variable
<cjwatson> ogra_: incidentally, you really don't export it, I checked, although that's irrelevant :)
<ogra_> cjwatson, oh, a diversion wont work anymore
<cjwatson> it should do, it's just done in the wrong place ...
<cjwatson> I suspect, anyway.  I bet update-initramfs is being called in the lb binary phase?
<ogra_> its called from some lb_chroot_hacks script
<ogra_> pretty ugly that there is no function for it or some such
<cjwatson> the diversion I added is in place when lb_chroot_hacks runs.
<cjwatson> lb_chroot does (among lots of other stuff) lb_chroot_dpkg install; lb_chroot_hacks; lb_chroot_dpkg remove
<cjwatson> lb_chroot_dpkg adds the diversion on install and removes it on remove
<cjwatson> :q
<cjwatson> (doh)
<ogra_> hmm
 * ogra_ checks the logs again, i'm probably looking in the wrong place
<ogra_> bah, i indeed looked at a different update-initramfs call
<ogra_> the one in the hack script doesnt spill the error
<cjwatson> where's the other call?
<ogra_> its manually added for ac100 in the build script in livecd-rootfs, i just need to make sure to export it inside the chroot call ...
<ogra_> that shouldnt be an issue, sorry for the noise, that was really silly
<cjwatson> right, easy to add for that one case then
<pitti> Daviey, RoAkSoAx: powernap currently wants to go to universe, is that intended?
<cjwatson> please remove it from live-build/auto/config again to avoid anybody being confused into thinking that works
<ogra_> yep, will do
<pitti> Daviey, RoAkSoAx: it's also uninstallable in main right now, don't know yet why
<Daviey> pitti: No, I've made RoAkSoAx aware.. and we are currently looking at directly seeding or making it a depends.
<pitti> Daviey: ok, thanks
<Daviey> pitti: I'd rather keep the seed minimal and rely on depends for that.
<pitti> Daviey: well, powernap at least sounds like the kind of "top level pacakge/feature" which are appropriate for seeds
<pitti> but your call
<jbicha> cjwatson: can I just remove the webbrowser dependency completely? a browser is kind of assumed these days
<Daviey> pitti: Yeah, previously it was included as it was a required depends of eucalyptus, the same requirement hasn't yet been added to openstack.  So really, i wouldn't be too upset if it was demoted - but the fact that next cycle it will hopefully bounce back to required, makes it silly to demote IMO.
<pitti> Daviey: right, we just need something to hold it in main, so seeding seems appropriate
<Daviey> pitti: ok, i'll add it now.
<cjwatson> jbicha: no, packages must depend on anything they need outside the Essential set, and a browser is not Essential
<cjwatson> jbicha: the fixed version should only be two characters away from your initial MP
<jbicha> cjwatson: ok
<bdrung> jelmer: i saw that you moved everything to lptools. when will you release lptools? the u-d-t branch pull will depend on the release of lptools.
<bdrung> jelmer: let me know if you need a review of that package and a debian sponsor.
<jelmer> bdrung: I mainly need to coordinate with lifeless, who is the package maintainer of lptools in Debian
<Laney> bdrung: jelmer is a dd ;-)
<bdrung> i wasn't aware that lptools is available in debian
<cjwatson> ScottK: any luck with the k3b libav patch?
<ScottK> cjwatson: I didn't hear back.  Let me ping my tester again (I'm in a $WORK meeting all day today with no DVD player handy).  Thanks for double checking.
<jdstrand> do any of you filter 'Branch linked' emails from launchpad? what are you looking at?
<bdrung> jelmer: packaging-dev 0.2 uploaded (which recommends lptools)
<jelmer> bdrung: awesome, thanks :)
<bdrung> np
<bdrung> jelmer: now it's time for you to make it worth recommending ;)
<jelmer> bdrung: :) I'll talk to lifeless about lptools in Debian this evening
<bdrung> great
<jdstrand> I think I might be able to use a combination of 'X-launchpad-bug-modifier: Launchpad Janitor (janitor)' and 'Message-id: ...@ackee.canonical.com>', but that seems both brittle and perhaps too heavy-handed...
<bdrung> jelmer: can you update the branch for u-d-t?
<jelmer> bdrung: to mention what we've just discussed you mean?
<bdrung> jelmer: to remove the last three moved tools.
 * jdstrand attempts http://paste.ubuntu.com/673796/
<pitti>   o scapy: python-scapy
<pitti>     [Reverse-Depends: powerwake-common]
<pitti> Daviey: ^ ah, that's why it's uninstallable
<pitti> Daviey: universe dependency
<Laney> jdstrand: a bug asking for a header might be useful ;-)
<Laney> or a more descriptive From: or whatever
<jdstrand> Laney: yes
<janimo> ricotz, it builds fine with that config option change, but at .deb creation it fails in dh_makeshlibs. That in turn is easily fixed by foloowing what it suggests.
<janimo> where should I file the bugreport and the diff? Or shall I upload?
<mdeslaur> pitti: what releases are we still running retracers for?
<pitti> mdeslaur: right now, oneiric; once that has caught up, I'll configure it for lucid/maverick/natty as well
<pitti> mdeslaur: it's now dead cheap to do so, but retracing the oneiric ones is more urgent at this point
<roadmr> gstreamer pipelines that used gconfaudiosink no longer work as this is not installed by default on oneiric, the obvious replacement (gsettingsaudiosink) is in gstreamer-plugins-bad and thus also not installed by default, will either one of these be included in the default install eventually?
<mdeslaur> pitti: ah, ok, thanks!
<pitti> mdeslaur: as the reports deterioate fast (unlike the stable ones)
 * jdstrand files bug requesting 'X-launchpad-bug-branch-linked' (or similar) in bug 832753
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832753 in Launchpad itself "please add email header for "** Branch linked..." emails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832753
<mdeslaur> pitti: thanks for fixing the oneiric one btw :)
<pitti> jdstrand: actually, filtering these out wouln't be hard, but it's nontrivial to filter emails which *only* have that message without anything else
<pitti> mdeslaur: my pleasure; was a 13 hour hack session yesterday to rewrite them, but I'm quite pleased with them now; it's sooo much easier
<pitti> mdeslaur: in bug 832740 I also asked to get the new goodness into oneiric
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832740 in apport (Ubuntu) "FFE: chroot-less apport-retrace" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832740
<jdstrand> pitti: yes-- I was trying to avoid a body search
<jdstrand> and this is also why my current attempt is putting them in a folder, rather than deleting them :) I have no idea if my current recipe is too heavy-handed
<seb128> roadmr, -gconf should be installed by default since gnome-media depends on it
<roadmr> seb128: oh, let me check again then, thanks for the heads-up!
<seb128> roadmr, it's on the manifest of the daily livecd build
<roadmr> seb128, you're right, it's there. I just hadn't checked recently. Thanks and apologies, I should check things are still bad before asking :)
<seb128> roadmr, no worry ;-)
<janimo> ricotz, uploaded, thanks for the fix
<ricotz> janimo, thanks, to oneiric?
<ricotz> janimo, alright, i will add your changes to debian later for a 1.7.6-2
<Daviey> pitti: ah
<janimo> ricotz, yes, oneiric
<pitti> ev, cjwatson: today's desktop CD boots straight into the live session, whereas previosu versions defaulted to the "install / try" dialog from ubiquity; is that intended or a bug?
<ev> bug
<ev> pitti:  /var/log/installer/dm might have the error
<pitti> ok, step 2: make kvm not freeze the guest when booting it
<pitti> (EE) Failed to load module "vmwgfx" (module does not exist, 0)
<pitti> (EE) vmware: Please ignore the above warnings about not being able to to load module/driver vmwgfx
<pitti> (EE) open /dev/fb0: No such file or directory
<pitti> ev: ^ is the /dev/fb0 error relevant?
<ev> nope
<pitti> after that I see two DBUG statements for launching the a11y bus, then it ends
<ev> not to my knowledge
<ev> anything in syslog or /var/log/installer/debug?
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/673825/ -> syslog; v/l/i/debug doesn't exist
<tseliot> cjwatson: is there a way to see if I blacklisted a card correctly in grub-gfxpayload-lists? (e.g. in some logs)
<pitti> ev: actually I was trying to reproduce bug 831884 ; maybe that's related somehow
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831884 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "lightdm fails to start on Live CD on intel: [drm] failed to set drm interface version (plymouth race ?)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831884
<ev> pitti: anything in /var/crash? :)
<pitti> ev: oha :) _usr_bin_ubiquity-dm.0.crash
<pitti> that _might_ be related :)
<ev> pitti: :-P
<kirkland> pitti: hey, did you guys get PowerNap seeded?
<pitti> kirkland: hey, how are you?
<pitti> kirkland: Daviey said he was going to
<pitti> ev: bug 830061
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830061 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ubiquity-dm crashed with AttributeError in run(): 'Pixbuf' object has no attribute 'render_pixmap_and_mask'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830061
<kirkland> pitti: hey man, good!  yourself?
<pitti> splendid, thanks!
<cjwatson> tseliot: you can run whatever the hwmatch command is by hand and look at the exit code
<Daviey> pitti: kirkland thinks it's a desktop problem, suites me :)
<ev> pitti: thanks
<cjwatson> tseliot: if you don't have access to the machine, there are no logs - grub doesn't write to the filesystem
<pitti> ev: should've looked first, sorry for bothering
<ev> pitti: no worries at all; glad to help
<tseliot> cjwatson: and that hwmatch command is run by grub, isn't it?
<tseliot> cjwatson: I'm asking as I can't see anything in the grub-gfxpayload-lists package which could do it
<cjwatson> tseliot: yes
<cjwatson> /etc/grub.d/10_linux
<smoser> anyone have thoughts on how i can create a static executable of http://paste.ubuntu.com/673848/ .
<smoser> if I do so with simple 'gcc -static' the executable is 700k.
<tseliot> cjwatson: that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks a lot
<smoser> i just need to be able to make that ioctl call in a limited busybox environment (ie, no perl or python)
<pitti> ev: it seems the ubiquity window grew recently? starting it on a 1024x600 netbook doesn't work well any more, the bottom button bar is missing and there is no way to resize it
<ev> pitti: indeed, I've noticed that as well.  It's on my list of things to fix
<pitti> ah, good; thanks
<ev> alt + click and drag for the meantime
<smoser> doko_, might you have thoughts on above ? slangasek ?
<cjwatson> smoser: might it be easieer to fix busybox?
<cjwatson> *easier
<smoser> :)
<smoser> busybox *does* have what i need.
<smoser> but ttylinux doesnt build with it, and i'm just re-bundling ttylinux. i wanted to avoid rebuilding it.
<slangasek> smoser: what do you mean, "Build with it"?
<slangasek> it seems like if buysbox's ip implementation already supports this, then you're set
<slangasek> as for the size of static builds, no idea except for running 'strip'
<smoser> yeah, strip -s ran
<slangasek> and building with -Os
<smoser> busybox already supports the 'ip' command, but the busybox built for ttylinux does not have that enabled. i'm really just stealing their root and re-purposing.
<smoser> i dont want to re-build their entire distro or busybox if i can avoid it.
<slangasek> ah
<smoser> i was hoping someone woudl point me at an easy to use pre-built uclinux tool chain
<smoser> or some other trvial solution.
<ogra_> arent we actually using klibc's ip command in the initrd ?
<smoser> i dont know. all my ubuntu initrds have busybox
<ogra_> they also have klibc :)
<ogra_> but i messed that up, it was ipconfig klibc delivers, not ip
<smoser> i didn't realize klibc provided binaries. i thought just "kernel libc"
<ogra_> klibc-utils provides binaries iirc
<smoser> yeah. i see that now.
<slangasek> infinity: any idea if the new ghc6 makes https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/haskell-lexer/1.0-2build1/+build/2548362 any more likely to succeed if retried?
<cjwatson> slangasek: ghc6->ghc surely ...
<cjwatson> (though OK, having looked at that log I don't know)
<slangasek> ah, it's no longer 6, is it, ok :)
<infinity> slangasek:no idea, and stuck on a mobile phone in a doctor's office. :)
<doko> Sweetshark, will you one more LO upload before the beta freeze?
<cjwatson> Sweetshark: it'd be good if you could look over the entries in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html where libreoffice binaries are depending on binaries that are no longer built from source, and see if any of your dependencies need tidying up
<cjwatson> TIA
<SpamapS> anybody know why mdadm has *no* udd branches at all?
<Daviey> SpamapS: yes
<Daviey> SpamapS: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/mdadm.html , and know you know aswell :)
<Daviey> now you*
<SpamapS> Thats what the computer knows. Please translate to *human*.
<slangasek> infinity: i.e., "no idea sent from my iphone"?
 * SpamapS has become woefully dependent on using branches
<Daviey> SpamapS: bug #248459 seems to be as far as it got.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248459 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "bzrlib.errors.DuplicateKey when importing debian" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248459
<Sweetshark> doko: Im trying to get one out.
<doko> jtaylor, could you keep the bug task and set it to invalid, so that I still the report for the package?
<tjaalton> cjwatson: you didn't happen to push the recent grub-gfxpayload-lists natty upload to bzr? I've one more device id to add to the lenovo blacklist
<jtaylor> doko: you mean keepass2?
<doko> jtaylor, yes
<jtaylor> k set to invalid
<doko> Sweetshark, please apply my armel hack, if you don't have time for a proper solution
<SpamapS> Is it ok to use /run directly in oneiric BTW?
<SpamapS> Specifically in initramfs scripts
<cjwatson> SpamapS: yes, but follow the dependency rules in http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/RunDirectory
<SpamapS> cjwatson: ty thats what I needed
<cjwatson> tseliot: lp:~cjwatson/ubuntu/natty/grub-gfxpayload-lists/natty-proposed - that'll have to do
<doko> Sweetshark, hmm, maybe better remove the .so explicitly
<tseliot> cjwatson: oh, nice, for the SRU
<SpamapS> Also, is it acceptible to just add -Wno-unused-but-not-set-variable to CXFLAGS to work around bug 829463? Seems like this late in the game introducing a big patch would be a folly.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829463 in mdadm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "mdadm version 3.1.4-1+8efb9d1ubuntu5 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829463
<Sweetshark> doko: that patch looks strange, why the added make call?
<doko> Sweetshark, I did say `hack', not `patch'
<dbarth> doko: ping, looking for a power user who can bump the score on https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/compiz-testing/+builds?build_state=pending
<Sweetshark> doko: yes, but still:why?
<doko> Sweetshark, to install the linker script
<cjwatson> SpamapS: or nuke -Werror from orbit
<doko> dbarth, done
<SpamapS> cjwatson: it really is the only way to be sure.. :)
<cjwatson> SpamapS: although, yes, IMO killing the specific warning is acceptable too
<seb128> doko, can you score https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1909476/+listing-archive-extra as well? thanks
<doko> fyi, test rebuild on amd64 is done
<dbarth> doko: danke sehr!
<doko> seb128, done
<seb128> doko, thanks
<doko> Sweetshark, ahh, I should check the return code from the first build ...
<Sweetshark> doko: my approach was: it seems the only reason those files are there is to unprelink them if they are prelinked, so as we are not prelinking anything on arm, not putting any files in the solver should work, shouldnt it?
<doko> Sweetshark, sure
<Sweetshark> at least sal builds fine without them
<doko> Sweetshark, we don't prelink on ony arch
<mtaylor> anybody around who deals with wiki.ubuntu.com - I'm looking at openid integration with login.ubuntu.com on another moinmoin wiki
<Daviey> mtaylor: #ubuntu-website is probably where you want, and isd is the team.
<mtaylor> Daviey: ah sweet. thanks
<mtaylor> Daviey: and I just sent you a (very long) email
<tseliot> slangasek: hi, I've just requested an SRU for nvidia-common in Natty (bug #825259). This should save us a few crashes on dist-upgrade. The sooner the package gets in, the better.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 825259 in nvidia-common (Ubuntu Oneiric) "File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/NvidiaDetector/nvidiadetector.py", line 87, in __get_value_from_name v = int(name) - ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '173-updates'" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825259
<Sweetshark> doko: attach'ed a simpler and a bit cleaner patch to the bug
<doko> Sweetshark, thanks, could you start a build on davis?
<Sweetshark> doko: I tried to, but got lots of 404s when trying to install deps :(
<Sweetshark> doko: Ill try again later.
<apw> cjwatson, is there are recipe for regenerating the casper initramfs correctly using initramfs tools ... i am trying to test a change in the compcache stuff
<doko> Sweetshark, running sudo apt-get update && dist-upgrade usually works. if not, ping the vanguard
<Sweetshark> doko: thanks for the tip, Ill give it a try.
<cjwatson> apw: install casper, update-initramfs -u
<cjwatson> (perhaps in a chroot ...)
<doko> apw, could you make sure that the kernel header issue is fixed in the next upload? leading to build failures
<Laney> cjwatson: a shiny new hat for you to wear? grats :-)
<apw> cjwatson, ahh sensible yes
<apw> doko, there is a kernel header issue ?
<apw> doko, got a bug # ?
<doko> apw, bug #824377
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 824377 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ftbfs on i386" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824377
<seb128> doko, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1909617/+listing-archive-extra please, and I'm done for today :-)
<doko> seb128, done
<seb128> thanks
<apw> doko, it would be helpful to include the ftbs link
<cjwatson> Laney: it's got a D on it
<Laney> and a lovely swirl
<apw> doko, can you point me at the rebuild archive (i assume that is where this failure is)
<doko> apw, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20110816/+build/2694433
<OdyX> tkamppeter: m2300w uploaded to Debian included most (if not all) your changes.
<apw> slangasek, about?  you helped do the multiarch conversion on the kernel headers.  am trying to work out how the include paths are modified for a build when multiarch is in play
<slangasek> apw: on the phone, but what's the issue?
<apw> slangasek, i have a build which includes asm/posix_types.h (i believe) and that is found in /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu/asm/posix_types.h just fine.  it includes "posix_types_32.h" which then fails, this file is in the same directory
<apw> note is uses the #include "x" syntax
<slangasek> apw: is this a kernel build failing?
<slangasek> shouldn't be if it's looking at /usr/include, yah?
<apw> slangasek, this is a gnat compilation, it is using the linux-libc-headers (which are multiarch now), includes something which #includes <linux/posix_types.h> which in turn includes <asm/posix_types.h> which works, which in turn includes "posix_types_32.h" which does not
<apw> where the last two are in the same directory
<apw> so in part i am trying to work out how it even finds the asm stuff, i am presuming that we have -I/usr/include -I /usr/include/<multi-arch-tuple> on the default options ?
<slangasek> apw: right, I think doko was looking at the gnat issue already - it's because of the use of #include "posix_types_32.h" instead of #include <asm/posix_types_32.h>, combined with a particular cpp option that gnat is passing
<slangasek> the /usr/include/, /usr/include/<multiarch> are the built-in gcc/cpp path
<apw> slangasek, ok so this combination works ok in the normal run of the mill compilations, so as you say it must be gnat specific
<apw> slangasek, what option is it using?
<doko> no, it's specific to -I-
<slangasek> but gnat is passing the -I- option that causes "" #includes to *not* use the default behavior of looking in the same directory as the parent include
<apw> ok which means what ?
<apw> and we think its reasonable for us to cope with that ?
<slangasek> apw: the kernel headers should work even when -I- is used - i.e., all includes should be #include <path/header.h>, not #include "header.h"
<apw> well it'd have saved me a bunch of time if any of this was in the bug
<apw> slangasek, thanks for the help, will go poke it
<slangasek> apw: ok, thank you :)
<slangasek> apw: fwiw, seems there are only two affected headers: unistd.h, posix_types.h
<tseliot> slangasek: are you ok with my changes ^^
<slangasek> (grep '#[[:space:]]*include[[:space:]]\+"' /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu/asm/*)
<slangasek> tseliot: sorry, missed the highlight!  let me see
<apw> slangasek, will have a poke about, we'll need to get this mantra fixed upstream
<tseliot> slangasek: thanks
<slangasek> tseliot: this is the SRU that's been uploaded?
<tseliot> slangasek: yes, the nvidia-common in natty-proposed is the one I mentioned in my SRU request
<slangasek> tseliot: the upload seems to include changes unrelated to this bug (e.g., the multiarch class) - that doesn't appear to be consistent with the SRU rules
<slangasek> tseliot: could you please cherry pick the upgrade-breaking bugfix?
<tseliot> slangasek: I had thought about doing that but ok. Do you mind if I also disable the kernel hook and the debconf interface (to be sure that the fix covers all cases)?
<tseliot> slangasek: the actual fix is just two lines of python code but I'd really feel more comfortable having these 2 things disabled/removed too ^
<tseliot> this is the python fix: https://github.com/tseliot/nvidia-common/commit/fb38f30927173e45ead1c3d45afe6548d66c8eb1
<SpamapS> Hrm.. sponsor-patch should be able to figure out that I want to sign things with my default key..
<Drakeson> [rant] Has this lightdm thing heard of a cursor?  [I feel better now!]
<tseliot> slangasek: and the other two changes that I mentioned are: https://github.com/tseliot/nvidia-common/commit/1cdb3ea13d912a9d28793d978c3173a8cb47a67d and https://github.com/tseliot/nvidia-common/commit/c025b9a57d0d2b2d93360ecc2b4ec8837db7a400
<slangasek> tseliot: for removal of obsolete config files, we normally want to preserve any local changes the user might have made; unless there's a specific reason you believe no one would ever care about keeping a copy of local changes they might have made to this script, please see dpkg-maintscript-helper(1)
<slangasek> (and please pay close attention to the pre-depends: requirement if you use this interface)
<slangasek> tseliot: what's the rationale for getting rid of the debconf interface?
<slangasek> pitti: it is incredibly frustrating that a bug filed 16 hours ago has been closed invalid by the retracer because "some outdated packages were installed on [my] system at the time of the report".
<slangasek> pitti: actually, it seems most of what it complains about is *debugging symbol packages* being out of date - are we having a ddeb problem? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/832454/comments/5
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 832454 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with signal 5 in xkl_process_error()" [Undecided,Invalid]
<seb128> slangasek, well it's the reality
<tseliot> slangasek: it was meant to deal with the transition from some rather old nvidia driver packages (back when we still used diversions instead of alternatives) to new package names when users dist-upgraded from the command line. Now I don't think we need it any more. The debconf interface simply warned users when the old package were still installed
<seb128> slangasek, no we don't, we just got a new gnome-settings-daemon between the time you sent your bug and the retracing
<tseliot> I didn't know dpkg-maintscript-helper though...
<slangasek> seb128: we got *lots* of new things between the time it was sent and the time the retrace happened; a 16-hour queue for retracing doesn't seem unrealistic even under normal circumstances, and having the retracer throw it out instead of pulling the old binary to get a backtrace makes for a really poor experience, especially on a bug like this that has literally been happening on my system daily for the past month
<slangasek> I understand the need to turf bugs that you're not going to get to, but the retracer's current behavior effectively makes it a waste of my time to file these with apport instead of getting the backtrace myself
<slangasek> anyway, there's also the output there saying that dbgsym packages are out of date, which is worrisome
<broder> i thought that there was no way to get ddebs for superceded packages
<slangasek> I don't think the ddeb archive is even that smart - I thought it expired ddebs based on age
<slangasek> (it really needs to get integrated into LP...)
 * slangasek upgrades gnome-settings-daemon, so that the next time it crashes he has a shot at getting it retraced
<tkamppeter> OdyX, thanks. About which of my changes are you in doubt whether you have included them?
<tseliot> slangasek: but, if you prefer, I'll pull in only the 2 lines fix. We're still going to get some unexplainable crashes when the kernel hook (and its debconf interface) kicks in though.
<slangasek> tseliot: it's fine to include those, just please use dpkg-maintscript-helper to properly dispose of the conffile
<broder> slangasek: that can't be right - there are still packages in the ddebs archive from the lucid release pocket
<tseliot> slangasek: ok, please reject my upload and I'll correct my changes tomorrow. Thanks for your help
<slangasek> tseliot: done, thanks
<slangasek> broder: perhaps I was misinformed then
<stgraber> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: stgraber
<stgraber> Please note that I'm unfortunately quite busy with other things (getting Edubuntu in shape by tomorrow) so I'll do my best to go through the queue today or tomorrow morning (splitting my shift in two).
<stgraber> If you have anything you want to see reviewed very quickly, please feel free to ping me on IRC and I'll stop doing Edubuntu stuff and process it immediately. Thanks!
<mterry> Is anyone particularly familiar with trapping TERM signals in sh?
<broder> vaguely? what are you trying to do?
<mterry> I've got an sh script that traps TERM and echos, and works when I send the signal from within the script, but sending the signal in a different terminal just gets dropped (doesn't end, doesn't echo)
<mterry> broder, see for example, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/674038
<broder> mterry: i think it doesn't catch the signal until the sleep returns
<broder> i was just testing an ~identical script, but mine was just sleep 5
<broder> i bet sleep is a bash builtin?
<broder> hmm, maybe not
<mterry> broder, if I change sleep to something like, xterm, same behavior
<broder> if you close the xterm, does it get the signal?
<mterry> broder, yes.  Also if I press ctrl+c (which is also trapped for testing), it will get the 'queued' TERM
<infinity> mterry: I'm assuming it works if you TERM the sleep instead of the shell?
<infinity> mterry: Oh, or not.
<mterry> infinity, yeah, nope
<broder> mterry: it kind of looks like it might just be a limitation in bash's signal handling
<broder> it's probably a reentrancy issue
<infinity> Oh, no, that's just cause sleep doesn't die on TERM. :P
<apw> does anyone know if it is safe to install grub2 into a chroot
<mterry> infinity, mine did (note that my sample script will loop again and start new sleep if it's killed).  I also tried with xterm, same result (it dies, but script doesn't catch signal)
<mterry> broder, so you're thinking trapping TERM in sh just won't work?  (note that dash and bash both seem to have this bug then -- I tried both)
<broder> mterry: i think it won't work until the child process exits
<infinity> Anyhow.  A shell's only job when you run a foreground command is to waitr for it to exit.
<infinity> mterry: What you want to do for that sort of job control is background your processes and then wait on them.
<infinity> mterry: Then the shell is "active", and can process your signals.
<broder> infinity: i tried stracing the shell. the wait4 call is interrupted, and then there's an rt_sigreturn call, then it goes back into wait4
<infinity> Raplacing the while loop with:
<infinity>   sleep 60 &
<infinity>   wait
<infinity> Does as mterry wants.
<infinity> (ie: the parent shell will now process SIGTERM)
<broder> is it relevant whether the shell has the controlling terminal?
<mterry> infinity, ah, yes.  thanks!  I think that's what I want
<infinity> broder: Nope.
<infinity> mterry: Keep in mind that if your TERM handler is exiting the shell, it will happily leave the children running, so you need to clean them up too.
<infinity> mterry: But every time you background a process, you can grab the PID and keep track of them for such control.
<mterry> infinity, yes, thanks
<highvoltage> cjwatson: congratulations!
<seb128> re
<seb128> slangasek, well, a  16 hour queue is unusual if the retracers are running and usually doesn't invalidate a retracing
<seb128> slangasek, the bug are closed only if the stacktrace generated by the retraced is a junk one
<seb128> having ddebs support in soyuz would be nice but wouldn't solve the issue, usually package index only have the current version, not the n previous ones
<seb128> well, I'm not saying that invalid retracing are not annoying and an issue but in practice they are not problematic when the retracers are not down for 3 weeks like it just happened
<seb128> hopefully with pitti's refactoring they will be robust now
<tkamppeter> Can someone finalize bug 822587 ([MIR] icc-profiles-free) by seeding it into main or making it a dependency or at least Recommended: in an appropriate package, so that it gets into beta1?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 822587 in icc-profiles-free (Ubuntu) "[MIR] icc-profiles-free" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/822587
<seb128> stgraber, hey, do you think you could review https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/language-selector/type-error/+merge/72755 and upload if it's good? gunnar was looking for a sponsor before
<seb128> (just saw that you are piloting)
<seb128> stgraber, with maybe https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/language-selector/show-in-new-g-c-c/+merge/72737 if you do an upload of the source ;-)
<stgraber> seb128: ok, I'll have a look at these
<seb128> stgraber, thanks
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can we please have test cases for syncpackage?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I think there's too much launchpadlib in it for many
<tumbleweed> (also it's a script, so it's not importable)
<Combatjuan> I built a new kernel as per the Ubuntu wiki using the "old-fashioned debian way".  When it boots with the new kernel, it sits for ~1 minute starting up and then drops to initramfs.  My menu.lst uses the same command line with the new kernel as with the old ones (except the kernel to use, obviously).
<Combatjuan> It complains that the /dev/disk/by-uuid/XXXYYY does not exist, but the rootdelay and root are the same as kernels that work fine.  I'm not sure how to troubleshoot this.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we need a good stub for launchpadlib
<bdrung> tumbleweed: writing the first test case will take some time, but it will give us the time back in the future
<tumbleweed> I agree there
<bdrung> tumbleweed: having test cases makes accepting new code easier
<bdrung> tumbleweed: e.g. i found another bug
<bdrung> $ syncpackage packaging-dev
<bdrung> syncpackage: Error: Version in Debian 0.1.1 (unstable) isn't newer than Ubuntu 0.1.1 (None)
<Combatjuan> It claims that "/dev/disk/by-uuid/XXXYYY...." doesn't exist.  It turns out that /dev/disk doesn't even exist.  Is that a good clue?
<bdrung> -> None?
<cjwatson> highvoltage: thanks!
<cjwatson> apw: grub-pc-bin might be what you want
<cjwatson> apw: (ships the binaries but doesn't own the boot sector)
<Chipzz_> cjwatson: grats (on both accounts)! :)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: that (and a related bug I just noticed) isn't an issue with my merges, I'll prepare a separate merge for that
<tumbleweed> bdrung: meh, actually it'll conflit with the bug closing branch, I'll do it there. I'm also tempted to try and get changelog entries out of launchpad rather than packages.debian.org (it'll make testing against qastaging way easier)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: meh, that was a wild goose chase. I've already fixed that bug and the one I thought I saw was a package I maintain being removed from Ubuntu without me noticing :)
<ahasenack> guys, this error is driving me crazy, I'm certainly missing something obvious: dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to meliae-0.4.0/meliae/__init__.pyc: binary file contents changed
<ahasenack> here is some info:
<ahasenack> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/674132/
<ahasenack> I grabbed an existing debian/* structure and am trying to clean it up, so some bits I haven't touched yet like that PYVERS stuff
<ahasenack> if I drop the orig.tar.gz from the parent directory, the build proceeds, but it creates a native package and a new tarball of course
<james_w> ahasenack, has that file been deleted?
<ahasenack> hmmmm
<james_w> ahasenack, if it's in the tarball you can't delete it
<ahasenack> james_w: that file (pyc) doesn't exist in the tarball
<ahasenack> james_w: I just found out that it was being created in the clean target, by "python setup.py clean"
<ahasenack> or so I think
<james_w> ah, that would do it
<james_w> clean should remove those files
<ahasenack> james_w: funnt that setup.py clean actually creates one :)
<james_w> yeah
<ahasenack> the only reason I was overriding clean was to remove the *.so files
<james_w> I suspect it's got an "import meliae" to get the version
<ahasenack> setup.py from upstream doesn't handle that
<ahasenack> james_w: exactly,
<ahasenack> james_w: success \o/
<ahasenack> got a v3 source package built
<ahasenack> I'm backporting a package version 0.4.0-1 to lucid, and will upload it to a ppa. Does this version look ok for this case: 0.4.0-1~lucid1~ppa1 ?
<tumbleweed> ahasenack: sounds good (backportpackage in ubuntu-dev-tools does that automatically for you)
<ahasenack> tumbleweed: cool, thanks. I tried that tool once, but in lucid it doesn't exist (or doesn't work, I can't quite remember)
 * ahasenack on lucid
 * ahasenack bookmarks https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<tumbleweed> yeah the u-d-t PPA build for lucid is waiting on the dh_python2 backport
<ahasenack> ah, dh_python2 will be backported? nice
<tumbleweed> ...at some point...
<ahasenack> but it's part of the python package in oneiric, so will there be a new python package for lucid or will it be part of some other package?
<tumbleweed> it involves changes to python-defaults, yes (whichis probably why nobody has done it)
<ahasenack> hehe
<slangasek> seb128: right, soyuz only keeps the latest file, but the librarian would keep more... which would make it possible to get backtraces on old executables, and let a lot of these "invalid" bugs get relabelled as duplicates
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can you add an TODO item to the code and point to bug #833384?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833384 in Launchpad itself "API access to debian changelog" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833384
<tumbleweed> sure
<seb128> slangasek, well I guess it would be "just a matter of adding the librarian logic"
<slangasek> yep :)
<seb128> slangasek, but at the same time I'm not sure how much extra bugs on old deprecated version we want
<seb128> the experience is suboptimal for submitters but for our side we don't miss anything
<slangasek> sure, I understand that
<slangasek> but the collateral damage is high
<slangasek> no, it *does* cause bugs to be missed
<seb128> like you can be sure that frequent segfaults will be reported and retraced
<slangasek> right, but not consistently throughout the cyle
<slangasek> cycle
<seb128> well, sure, instead of getting 260 bugs a day we get 90 bugs
<seb128> we still read only 15 of those
<slangasek> as I said, this g-s-d crash has been happening to me for a month; I guess I'll know tomorrow if it's still there in the new upstream version
<seb128> what we really need is that database out of launchpad
<seb128> slangasek, I'm ready to bet it's a dup of one of those bugs that get 15 duplicates a day
<slangasek> maybe so. if the retracer had processed it, we would know for sure ;)
<seb128> and we wouldn't be able to open the master bug because launchpad would timeout on it :p
<slangasek> hmm, well, at that point we have bug patterns...
<slangasek> but yeah, point taken
<seb128> slangasek, let's say with you I agree on the sentiment and other do
<seb128> we really need a database out of launchpad
<seb128> handling of those in launchpad is suboptimal for several reasons
<slangasek> the crash database?
 * slangasek nods
<seb128> yes
<seb128> it's creating lot of email spam and noise and adding constrain on the quality of what we collect
<seb128> if that was out of the bug tracker we could just collect infos there
<seb128> 'night
<Daviey> tumbleweed: Having the changelog via API isn't as exciting as having publish information via API.
<Daviey> (for Debian)
<tumbleweed> you mean not having everything "Pending"?
<Daviey> tumbleweed: yeah
<tumbleweed> that wolud be rather nice :)
<Daviey> I *think* i raised a bug about that.. or at least discussed it
<tumbleweed> Daviey: it's rather fun trying to test things against 2 month old qastaging snapshot when you are getting current changelogs from Debian which disagree :)
<Daviey> happy happy joy joy
<cjwatson> any of the ubuntu-devel moderators know who approved https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-August/034011.html ?
<cjwatson> it contains at least one incredibly offensive insinuation, and in general it's a paranoid rant that I'm not sure belongs on our lists
<cjwatson> I think approving it for ubuntu-devel was a mistake
<slangasek> oh, did that get cross-posted to ubuntu-devel?  I didn't notice which lists I was deleting-unread on
<stgraber> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Feature Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<davidm> cjwatson, I shudder any time Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton gets on his soap box
<davidm> Nice guy but he does have some interesting points of view
<cjwatson> bringing a suicide victim into it is a new low in terms of taste
<cjwatson> astoundingly inappropriate
<slangasek> oh sigh
<cjwatson> I'm very tempted to knee-jerk ban but I'm too personally involved
<infinity> I haven't gotten that far...
<infinity> Okay, wow.  That's just beyond tasteless. :/
<soren> cjwatson: I didn't approve it, but had I seen it come through, I probaby would have. At a glance, it looks on-topic (in the sense that it's a non-spam response to an existing thread).
 * soren starts reading
<infinity> soren: Don't.  You'll hate yourself for doing so.  Especially the low point that Colin mentions. :/
<soren> infinity: I'm a sucker for this sort of thing.
<soren> infinity: And I think I need to read something frustrating that isn't aimed at me for once.
<infinity> soren: Suit yourself.  I kinda want to go punch concrete a bit right now.  Normally, the only effect he has on me is the perfectly rational urge to punch HIM.
<infinity> And I think I may have just stepped a few meters over the CoC line myself there, so I'll shut up. :P
<infinity> cjwatson: If there was any way to undeliver it, I'd be all for it.  Sadly, removing it from the archives won't do much.
<ajmitch> infinity: having read it, I can understand the frustration
<infinity> cjwatson: Banning lkcl from posting follow-ups won't hurt my feelings, though.
<infinity> cjwatson: Then again, I'm about as personally affected as you, for very different reasons.  So... :/
 * soren starts to understand what the fuss is all about
 * soren stops
#ubuntu-devel 2011-08-25
<bryceh> cjwatson, nope, hadn't looked at the ubuntu-devel@ queue today
<bryceh> slangasek, you about?
<slangasek> bryceh: only for a second more
<bryceh> slangasek, that xvfb issue with pygtk is actually a fakeroot bug, fixed in debian 1.17-1
<bryceh> bug 829470
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829470 in fakeroot (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Xvfb fails with empty /var/lib/xkb, causing build failures" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829470
<slangasek> oh, interesting
<bryceh> slangasek, it's same as bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630591 in debian
<ubottu> Debian bug 630591 in apt "apt: apt-cache fails with current fakeroot" [Minor,Fixed]
<slangasek> right, let me sync that
<bryceh> awesome
<DoctorPepper> hi guys !!!
<DoctorPepper> as of today  does ubuntu support  systemd as an init system  without having to recompile the kernel  for cgroups support ?
<RAOF> DoctorPepper: cgroups are enabled in the kernel, and I guess we've probably got Debian's systemd packages in the archive.
<DoctorPepper> thanks
<DoctorPepper> is the maintainer of appmenu  in here ?
<pitti> Good morning
<DoctorPepper> pitti:  good morning
<pitti> slangasek: 832454> I understand how it is frustrating :/ indeed it seems we have lots of missing ddebs for these
<pitti> now if only we had proper LP ddebs integration, the current hack has never been meant to even last that long :(
<pitti> hey DoctorPepper
<pitti> I just checked the ddeb-retriever, it's not stuck or anything
<pitti> but it might be that some of the buildds are acting up, /me runs manually
<pitti> sometimes the buildds time out when you try to talk to them, for several days
<pitti> if it happens for more than two days, we lose ddebs
<slangasek> RAOF: systemd isn't in the archive, and we definitely don't support it as an init system
<slangasek> pitti: LP ddebs - yes, please :)
<RAOF> slangasek: Oh, I certainly didn't mean to imply we would go so far as to *support* it; we've gone to the effort of blacklisting the sync, though?
<slangasek> RAOF: you cannot run systemd as an init system on Ubuntu
<slangasek> for whichever meaning of "support" you wish :)
<RAOF> Just out of curiosity, what prevents that?
<slangasek> the fact that all of our startup is done with native upstart jobs
<pitti> I actually had a 10.10 system running with the systemd PPA packages
<RAOF> I mean, apart from the bunch of packages that have native upstart scripts.
<pitti> that PPA has a package to provide some missing ones
<slangasek> that bunch of packages is pretty much the default Ubuntu install :)
<RAOF> Ah.  Just the bunch of packages with native upstart scripts?  Oh, things like mountall probably don't get systemded, either.
<pitti> RAOF: mountall isn't necessary with systemd
<RAOF> So, as long as you rewrote a bunch of init scripts, it'd work :)
<pitti> actually, most of the early startup is already done by systemd itself
<pitti> the scary thing is that it sucks in more and more of the boot/system services stuff
<pitti> it's like a "liblinux" now
<pitti> so it doesn't require (and doesn't actually allow) a lot of configuration or script tweaking
<pitti> which makes it easy for trying out, but rather hard as an admin to customize
 * slangasek nods
<sgnb> infinity: type-conv needs to be rebuilt as well
<infinity> sgnb: I noticed that, due to the dep-wait.  Building now.
<infinity> sgnb: The segv on powerpc in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/78022053/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-powerpc.ocaml-extunix_0.0.3-1build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is disconcerting.
 * infinity retries to see if it was cosmic rays.
<nigelb> Or an unfortunate alignment of the planets ;)
<infinity> Moon phase, etc, yes.
<sgnb> infinity: it happens also in Debian, see http://caml.inria.fr/mantis/view.php?id=5334
<sgnb> I'm planning to disable this test on armel and powerpc
<infinity> sgnb: Disabling the test seems like the wrong fix. :P
<sgnb> infinity: feel free to submit a proper fix
<sgnb> backtrace() seems an esoteric feature enough to me
<sgnb> (I mean, for exotic architectures such as powerpc)
<infinity> sgnb: PowerPC isn't that exotic. :P
<infinity> sgnb: But I also have no interest in fixing it, so.. :)
<sgnb> infinity: ocaml-data-notation failed because of type-conv
<infinity> sgnb: I know. :)
<infinity> sgnb: Waiting for the type-conv binaries to be published and I'll retry it.
<infinity> sgnb: Any interest in feeding me a fixed ocaml-extunix?
<sgnb> I'll upload one to Debian... but it's not urgent (no reverse-dependencies)
<infinity> Shiny.  That's what I needed to know.
<infinity> Just poke me to sync it sometime, then.
<dholbach> good morning
<makara> if I install Ocelot Alpha, will the automatic updates bring it up to the full release in October, or will I have to download that CD again?
<infinity> makara: -> #ubuntu
<makara> k
<doko> pitti, sqlite ping ...
<pitti> doko: pong
<pitti> --verbose?
<doko> pitti: what is left to demote it?
 * pitti checkrdepends
<pitti> -- oneiric/main amd64 deps on libsqlite0:
<pitti> php5-sqlite
<pitti> -- oneiric/main build deps on libsqlite0-dev:
<pitti> bacula
<pitti> libdbi-drivers
<pitti> doko: nothing in main depends on php5-sqlite except for php5-dbg
<pitti> so in theory it could be split out of the source
<pitti> Bacula looks weird, it b-deps on both libsqlite0-dev and libsqlite3-dev
<pitti> Daviey: ^ do you guys still care about bacula?
<pitti> if not, perhaps it could just be demoted?
<pitti> libdbi-drivers presumably needs it to build libdbd-sqlite, but it also builds libdbd-sqlite3
<zyga> mvo: hi
<mvo> hey zyga
<doko> well, that could be built in universe too
<zyga> mvo: I started merging a few patches and hit a wall with broken i18n support
<zyga> mvo: would you mind looking at https://code.launchpad.net/~zkrynicki/command-not-found/rework-locale-support/+merge/72848
<zyga> mvo: this is my attempt to fix them
<pitti> doko: frankly, I'd just drop it from dbi-drivers
<pitti> doko: libdbd-sqlite has exactly one rdepends in universe
<pitti> interchange-cat-standard
<pitti> which has alternative dependencies
<mvo> zyga: sure, I will do after lunch
<zyga> mvo: thanks
<pitti> doko: so, I think the hardest one is php5-sqlite
<pitti> dbi-drivers is easy to fix, and for bacula it should be possible to drop the b-dep (let's see whether server team still cares)
<doko> pitti, sounds like a plan
<Daviey> pitti: Where are you seeing bacula showing up?  I don't see it on c-m's?
<pitti> Daviey: it doesn't show up in reports, we'd just like to get rid of sqlite for good
<Daviey> pitti: but keep sqlite3?
<pitti> yes
<Daviey> pitti: Super,  Yes - i am happy for Bacula to be demoted.  It's not recieving the attention it probably deserves.
<Daviey> times like this popcon by default for devel release would be handy to find out if anyone has actually tried it!
<seb128> ev, do you know if anyone is working on updating the ubiquity slideshow for oneiric?
<cjwatson> 11:12 <CIA-18> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu: evand * r360 ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ (12 files in 12 dirs): Bump version strings to 11.10.
<cjwatson> 11:16 <CIA-18> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu: evand * r361 ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 41
<seb128> cjwatson, right, still it lists evolution as being our email client
<seb128> cjwatson, that's this upload which made me think about it ;-) I noticed recently the content was still not updated
<wildfire> hi, who can do a stable release update request for bug #817119 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 817119 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "Receiving a video chat invite from Google Talk crashes Pidgin." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/817119
<wildfire> who is able to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates to indicate that 'mere mortals' can not nominate a bug for SRU
<wildfire> apparently it is an immutable page
<pitti> wildfire: everyone can nominate
<wildfire> pitti: no they can not
<pitti> well, only few people can actually accept the task
<wildfire> please see: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/140509
<pitti> maybe nomination is limited as well
<pitti> actually that's good news -- nominations are fairly useless
<wildfire> pitti: well, good news for developers, I guess
<wildfire> frustrating for users
<wildfire> particularly when the process is described so throughly, and is so throughly wrong
<pitti> not any more frustrating than nominating it and then never see anything happen
<pitti> merely asking "I want this fixed" isn't magically going to make it happen
<pitti> but in general, subscribing ubuntu-sru with an explanation why this is SRU worthy also works, and doesn't need nomination
<pitti> or even better, uploading a fix :)
<pitti> wildfire: that page isn't wrong, though -- developers can nominate
<wildfire> pitti: I did not realise that the page was geared towards developers, I believed it was geared towards the people actually taking the time to report a bug and then hearing it has been fixed in a later version -- and that if the reporter wanted the bug fixed in that stable version, that was the process to follow
<wildfire> pitti: care to update it to clarify that the audience is people who are both bug reporters and developers?
<pitti> no, perhaps this should be clarified then
<pitti> this is for people who want to do an SRU, not like to see a bug fixed
<pitti> do you have a proposal how to clarify this?
<pitti> e. g. append "This page describes the process for developers." to the first paragraph?
<poolie> o/ wildfire
<wildfire> pitti, poolie: I'd have: "If you would like to request a SRU and you are not a developer, please follow the procedure outlined at StabelReleaseUpdateRequest. This page documents the process for developers completing SRU requests."
<poolie> good idea
<wildfire> You can make the SRURequest page a blank wiki link and it can be filled in later on
<poolie> there has been a lot of churn in the past because with so many users to developers any popular bug will get requests, regardless of feasibility or availability of effort to do it
<pitti> well, there's not much to write there -- find a developer to fix it
<poolie> as pitti says people just saying "i want this fixed"
<wildfire> poolie, pitti: is the issue that the requests are invalid, or there is not enough time / developers to do it?
<wildfire> I think there are different ways to address things depending on what is the main problem with requests
<wildfire> if the former, you can suggest that a 'power user' (perhaps an MOTU? althougth aiui they don't exist anymore), should nominate things
<StevenK> MOTU do still exist
<wildfire> if the later, make triaging an SRU request part of the application process
<wildfire> StevenK: OK, good to know - I was under the impression with fine-grained upload permissions, that someone who could upload an package into 'universe' or 'multiverse' was a thing of the past
<poolie> in this case obviously there is an apparently working fix for it
<poolie> if they make a merge proposal into the relevant branch that should fix it off
<poolie> wildfire: i think the issue (which doesn't apply to this bug in particular) in general is a bit of both
<pitti> wildfire: MOTUs are in the ubuntu-bugcontrol team and can nominate, yes
<geser> wildfire: as 'universe' and 'multiverse' still exist we need MOTU to take care of it and even after that we need MOTU to take care of the packages that nobody takes care of
<janimo> is Keybuk around this channel these days? Alternately is there any other public venue I can ping him on?
<pitti> janimo: in principle yes, but only scarcely
<janimo> I have ureadahead related questions but would rather not mail him personally
<pitti> janimo: during European evening/Californian day mostly
<pitti> janimo: mail should work fine
<janimo> pitti, thanks, I'll keep an eye on him showing up :)
<pitti> cjwatson: argh, just got a reject for my libivgraimpex upload
<pitti> cjwatson: anyway, thanks for fixing it, too!
<pitti> seems the bug assignment had a mid-air collision in LP
<wildfire> poolie: maybe there should be a 'good SRU nominator' flag for people who consistently suggest good candidates for SRUs?
<poolie> that's an interesting idea
<poolie> or maybe more generally people who can't upload but who can be trusted to triage
<poolie> (or is that already ~ubuntu-bugcontrol?)
<poolie> perhaps ideally it would go off (a much better version of) karma
<pitti> if these people could also dig out the corresponding patches, that'd help a lot
<pitti> ScottK: oh, that was fast :)
<pitti> Daviey: do you have an opinion on bug 833684?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833684 in postgresql-9.0 (Ubuntu) "[FFE] Update PostgreSQL to 9.1, drop 9.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833684
<pitti> Daviey: if you are fine with it, I can go ahead and do the syncs now
<pitti> (and add the remaining package tasks to track the rdepends)
<Daviey> pitti: comment added, TL;DR +1.
<cjwatson> pitti: ah, heh, oh well
<cjwatson> pitti: same fix? :)
<pitti> yeah
<cjwatson> directhex: bug 803978 - how about mono-uia, which depends on mono-debugger?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803978 in monodevelop-debugger-mdb (Ubuntu) "Please remove from Oneiric" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803978
<directhex> cjwatson, mono-uia depends on other things which are gone from mono. and the team behind it was laid off. Laney, didn't we file an RM request on uia*?
<Laney> no
<Laney> ray was/is hoping to resurrect it
<Laney> but if removed, it can always be reintroduced
<cjwatson> want to add a mono-uia task to that bug, then?
<pitti> doko, Daviey: I'm touching bacula anyway for psql 9.1; while I'm at it, I'll also drop bacula-director-sqlite (no rdepends) and the sqlite2 dep
<pitti> bacula-director-sqlite is a migration package, and we have carried it long enough (it's in lucid)
<pitti> so there's an upgrade path
<doko> \o/
<Daviey> pitti: why didn't we drop it post lucid?
<pitti> Daviey: I don't know
<pitti> well, we do now
<Daviey> We do a crappy job at transitional package planning :)
<Daviey> I have NFI what ones we can drop after the next LTS.
<pitti> well, in most cases it doesn't really hurt to have them around longer than necessary
<pitti> but we stumble over them when we try to remove cruft
<Daviey> I still wonder how many people installed mysql-server-5.X directly rather than mysql-server, and lost their upgrade path.
<nigelb> Daviey: dear god.
<nigelb> we're supposed to isntall mysql-server?
<Daviey> nigelb: shutt'it
 * nigelb always did 5.X
<nigelb> :(
<tseliot> pitti: can you approve nvidia-graphics-drivers-96 in bug #741930 and nvidia-common in bug #825259 (both in natty-proposed), please? (I did what RAOF and slangasek requested)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 741930 in NVIDIA Drivers Ubuntu "[natty] nvidia binary packages for older cards - dependencies not met" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741930
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 825259 in nvidia-common (Ubuntu Natty) "File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/NvidiaDetector/nvidiadetector.py", line 87, in __get_value_from_name v = int(name) - ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '173-updates'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825259
<ximion> hi! I'm currently working on bug 831271 , an FTBFS because of multiarch-support...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831271 in libqt4pas (Ubuntu Oneiric) "libqt4pas version 2.1Qt4.5.3-5 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831271
<ximion> why does debhelper install the library into multiarch paths even if this packages does NOT enable multiarch?
<pitti> Daviey, doko: bacula uploaded, sqlite2 -= 1
<pitti> doko: php5 looks strange -- it only b-deps on libsqlite3-dev, not on 0-dev, and yet php5-sqlite binary-depends on it
<Daviey> pitti: \o/
<debfx> ximion: qmake installs the libraries into the multiarch path
<ximion> debfx: good to know... I'm converting this package to multiarch right now, so this problem should go away
<ximion> is this qmake change an upstream change or a Debian change?
<ximion> if it's Debian, it would have been nice if it would've been activated on multiarch packages only.
<ximion> I guess this package is not the only one which FTBFS now
<tseliot> pitti: ^^^
<pitti> tseliot: erm, what, qmake, what?
<tseliot> pitti: I wrote you about my packages in natty-proposed
<tseliot> pitti: (at 02:46)
<tseliot> pitti: or I can copy and paste the message if you prefer
<pitti> tseliot: hm, here? I don't see it
<pitti> tseliot: if you can re-paste in /msg, that'd be appreciated
<tseliot> pitti: can you approve nvidia-graphics-drivers-96 in bug #741930 and nvidia-common in bug #825259 (both in natty-proposed), please? (I did what RAOF and slangasek requested)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 741930 in NVIDIA Drivers Ubuntu "[natty] nvidia binary packages for older cards - dependencies not met" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741930
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 825259 in nvidia-common (Ubuntu Natty) "File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/NvidiaDetector/nvidiadetector.py", line 87, in __get_value_from_name v = int(name) - ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '173-updates'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825259
<tseliot> oh, sorry, you said in /msg
<pitti> tseliot: yep, I'll get to it; doing SRU review right now
<tseliot> pitti: great, thanks
<pitti> mterry: rejecting your p-distutils-extra SRU, no bug ref in changelog
<pitti> mterry: you can reupload with -v to include the previous chagnelog
<mterry> pitti, ah, whoops.  OK
<pitti> tseliot: why was the debconf bit disabled?
<pitti> SpamapS: FYI, can't accept mdadm natty-proposed; it's already in -proposed, and bug 778520 is v-failed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 778520 in mdadm (Ubuntu Natty) "install on degraded raid1 does not boot, drops to initramfs shell" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778520
<tseliot> pitti: because there can be nasty interactions when dist-upgrading and it's obsolete anyway
<pitti> tseliot: ok
<debfx> ximion: it's a configure option of Qt
<debfx> ximion: Debian hasn't converted Qt for multiarch (yet)
<ximion> debfx: ah, okay :)
<SpamapS> pitti: oops I forgot to mention that the new upload actually fixes the regression that caused 778520 to fail
<pitti> SpamapS: ah, can you then please reupload with -v to include the previous changelog?
<pitti> SpamapS: I rejected your current upload, so you can re-use the version number
<SpamapS> pitti: sure, I thought that was only necessary if it had actually been removed.
<pitti> SpamapS: no, it needs to have all chagnelogs which have been piling up in -proposed until it gets into -updates
<SpamapS> pitti: alright, re-uploaded with full changelog
<mterry> ev, you around?  I think the recent live cd problems are ubiquity problems
<ev> mterry: which ones, specifically?
<mterry> ev, sorry, the one where X doesn't come up
<mterry> ev, seems to be a gir problem in ubiquity-dm
<mterry> GdkPixbuf.render_pixmap_and_mask isn't being found
<ev> ah indeed, that's definitely on my list
<ev> just sorting out the unicode issues in usersetup and friends first
<cjwatson> mterry: bug 830892
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830892 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ubiquity-dm crashed with AttributeError in run(): 'Pixbuf' object has no attribute 'render_pixmap_and_mask' (dup-of: 830061)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830892
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830061 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ubiquity-dm crashed with AttributeError in run(): 'Pixbuf' object has no attribute 'render_pixmap_and_mask'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830061
<cjwatson> (dup, but it has my first non-working sketch at a fix ...)
<mdeslaur> slangasek, infinity: does this look sane to you? http://paste.ubuntu.com/674544/
<seb128> ev, btw it's probably on your list as well but you still use gconf keys which are deprecated rather than gsettings
<seb128> just saying it as a reminder, it will create bugs for proxy and things like that if you rely on gconf
<ev> okay, thanks for the reminder
<mterry> cjwatson, thanks!
<shnatsel> Hi everybody! I'm making an Ubuntu derivative and I'm trying to generate dependency lists using Germinate. All existing seed-based packages are limited to Ubuntu repositories; is there a way to make Germinate use several repositories, e.g. Ubuntu + PPAs?
<shnatsel> s/all existing packages/all the packages I could find/
<shnatsel> I couldn't find any docs about such things, and all the examples use Ubuntu repositories only
<mterry> shnatsel, I really feel like it is possible.  I think I've done it before, but that was a long time ao
<mterry> shnatsel, I don't remember details or where to point you, so that's useless info, sorry  :-/
<doko> Daviey, will nova reach main before the beta freeze?
<shnatsel> that looks like bug 571793 also
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571793 in germinate (Ubuntu) "germinate cannot check another repository with a different dist" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571793
<Daviey> doko: no
<shnatsel> Ah, I've found the format but bug 634831 will kill my attempts anyway
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634831 in germinate (Ubuntu) "germinate does not support multiple repositories on the same host" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634831
<Daviey> doko: Well.. unless python-carrot can be thrown in main just to be demoted when a bug we are blocked on is satisifed.
<Daviey> Or, just c-m stick on python-carrot.. either way
<cjwatson> shnatsel: oh, yeah, I was going to deal with that for Oneiric
<ahasenack> how do I get a verbose debian/rules file nowadays? dh_make just creates that two liner one now (%:\n\tdh $@)
<shnatsel> cjwatson: so, when can one expect the patch to land?
<cjwatson> shnatsel: over the next week or so
<azeem> ahasenack: the longer templates are still in the dh_make package I think
<cjwatson> ahasenack: dh_make -r old, but why would you want to ...
<ahasenack> azeem: dpkg -L dh-make | grep rules only gave me the short ones
<shnatsel> cjwatson: great, thanks! It's blocking all the fun in elementary OS ISO testing atm :(
<shnatsel> (luckily we have Glimpse)
<ahasenack> cjwatson: I need to customize this build a lot
<ahasenack> I have 3 setup.py scripts I have to call, and produce 3 binary packages
<ahasenack> hmm, no such option -r
<ahasenack> I'm on lucid
<ahasenack> hmm, wait
<ahasenack> -r, --createorig
<ahasenack> doesn't sound related
<shnatsel> and`:
<shnatsel> sorry
<shnatsel> ahasenack: I assume you want to get a list of all the actions taken by debhelper and override some of them with custom ones, right?
<ahasenack> shnatsel: right, but it's not just override, I need to insert more actions in the middle
<ahasenack> shnatsel: so when overriding, I actually want to preserve what was there already and just add new things
<shnatsel> ahasenack: in such cases I usually override the action with itself and some added stuff
<ahasenack> shnatsel: like dh_install_override: (stuff), but how to call the original dh_install?
<cjwatson> this is documented ...
<cjwatson> man dh
<cjwatson> YM override_dh_install: and then you can just call dh_install, it won't infinite-recurse
<ahasenack> ok, that was a bad (simple) example
<ahasenack> what about binary-indep:
<ahasenack> it expands into a whole lot of dh_* commands
<cjwatson> you don't override binary-indep en masse
<cjwatson> you override individual ones
<shnatsel> ahasenack: --before and --after ?
<cjwatson> those are deprecated
<shnatsel> oh, I have an outdated man, sorry
<ahasenack> exactly, so I need to know the individual ones
<shnatsel> ahasenack: that's documented
<cjwatson> sure, but that's easy ...
<cjwatson> and you normally only need to override the ones that are relevant to your package
<shnatsel> To see what commands are included in a sequence, without actually doing
<shnatsel>        anything:
<shnatsel>                dh binary-arch --no-act
<ahasenack> shnatsel: that's why I wanted a template rules file with this filled in already
<cjwatson> shnatsel: http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/debhelper/news/20110806T234709Z.html
<cjwatson> ahasenack: I'm definitely not saying it's always easy, and there are cases where using the minimal rules file is more effort than it's worth; so far your case doesn't sound like one of those, though
<ahasenack> cjwatson: I need to basically loop over three setup.py, located in three different directories. For some reason, upstream chose to have everything in one branch, but they distribute 3 separate tarballs
<ahasenack> cjwatson: and I want to build from this branch
<cjwatson> so override dh_auto_build and dh_auto_install
<cjwatson> that's all it takes to do that
<ahasenack> cjwatson: ok,I will see what other actions dh_auto_build and dh_auto_install do, so I can preserve them where appropriate and insert my own
<shnatsel> gtg; cjwatson, thanks for your help!
<cjwatson> dh_auto_build is a generic per-buildsystem equivalent of 'make' and dh_auto_install is a generic equivalent of 'make install'
<cjwatson> if you still want a better dh_make then it might be worth just grabbing the dh-make package from oneiric
<ahasenack> I guess I need to look at an example with multiple binary packages and just using overrides in rules
<ahasenack> no "expanded" rules file
<dholbach> pitti, does the work item tracker add bugs that are linked to blueprints as work items?
<apw> ogasawara, just a heads up i've just discovered we didn't make a WI for reviewing compcache and family; came up cause its also not working as is.  Have added a new WI on delta-review for it
<ogasawara> apw: ack
<apw> bah wrong channel
<cjwatson> ahasenack: in roughly ascending order of complexity from my own packages: libpipeline, putty, groff (I'm afraid I have no python ones to show you off the top of my head, but python-ness and multi-binary-ness are pretty orthogonal really)
<ahasenack> cjwatson: ok, and you control which file goes into which package with <package>.install files
<cjwatson> right, generally
<ahasenack> no need for -p <package> command line option to some dh_* tool
<ahasenack> but if there is, then you would need to put that in the rules file somewhere
<cjwatson> occasionally you need those, but I find it's best to regard that as exceptional
<ahasenack> I guess I was looking at older packages, I saw -p being used and thought I would need that and didn't look at <package>,install files
<ahasenack> cjwatson: thanks, that helps
<ahasenack> putty is "expanded" already
<cjwatson> not in oneiric
<cjwatson> you should take all my references as referring to the most current version, not whatever's in lucid
<ahasenack> ah, right, sorry :)
<cjwatson> http://anonscm.debian.org/loggerhead/pkg-ssh/putty/trunk/annotate/head:/debian/rules
<ahasenack> cjwatson: looks much simpler indeed
<pitti> dholbach: yes
<ahasenack> cjwatson: I looked at this the other day and panicked: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~therve/twisted/debian/view/head:/rules
<ahasenack> maybe it's possible to build that with just overrides, maybe not
<cjwatson> yeah, I wouldn't have picked twisted as an example myself :)
<cjwatson> I would expect rather a lot of that could disappear if modernised
<ahasenack> cool, hopefully one day I'll know enough to do that :)
<cjwatson> it is possible to build anything with just overrides; I'm pretty certain they're formally equivalent
<slangasek> pitti: php5 has a FTBFS I can't reproduce locally, preventing the binary sqlite0 dep being dropped
<cjwatson> in some cases it produces something that's longer / harder to read than the original, and so isn't worth it; I don't *think* twisted would be such a case but I'd have to try it to be sure of that
<pitti> slangasek: ah, thanks for the info
<cjwatson> switching d-i from long-form files to dh7 was a vast improvement in readability in almost all cases, because now the rules files only described what was unusual
<slangasek> pitti: sure - guesses as to the cause of the FTBFS are welcome...
<tgardner> so whats the story on this? Its kind of got my desktop hosed.
<tgardner> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<tgardner>  ubuntu-desktop : Depends: unity but it is not going to be installed
<tgardner>                   Depends: unity-2d but it is not going to be installed
<tgardner> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
<seb128> tgardner, don't use dist-upgrade without reading what it wants to do
<tgardner> seb128, with the torrent of package updates daily, I'm unlikely to notice. the basic question, though, is why unity is uninstallable ?
<seb128> tgardner, use upgrade instead of distr-upgrade or read what it wants to uninstall before saying yes
<seb128> tgardner, because nux is abi instable and unity needs to be updated in the same upgrade run when there is a nux update
<cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/oneiric_probs.html unity isn't uninstallable right now but unity-2d is
<seb128> tgardner, unity needs the new nux to build though so during the nux is built and unity is building you get those issues
<seb128> cjwatson, yeah, cf #ubuntu-release ;-)
<seb128> unity-2d needs either a no change update or a ffe for the new version
<andy753421> Could I trouble someone in ubuntu-sponsors to finish a sync request for me for launchpad bugs 832611, 832613, and 832614?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832613 in Ubuntu "Sync libgrits 0.5.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832613
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832611 in Ubuntu "Sync aweather 0.5.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832611
<seb128> that's being worked
<cjwatson> Sweetshark: can openoffice.org-l10n-be-by and openoffice.org-l10n-ns be removed from their source package?  their dependencies are uninstallable and I think removed
<tgardner> seb128, hrmph. I think I'll just go away and wait until its unf*cked.
<andy753421> The feature freeze was approved, so i think it just need to be synced? (sorry for the last minute rush)
<seb128> tgardner, you can get the unity debs on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/4.10.0-0ubuntu1
<slangasek> mdeslaur: I would suggest not changing the debconf template names / var dir names as part of the transition (that way, previously-answered cache values can be reused); the "debconf" dependency should be replaced with ${misc:Depends} (noticed because you've dropped the | debconf-2.0 from the hand-written dep, which is incorrect); you seem to have dropped the versioned dependencies on libnss3-1d and libnspr4-0d, which were presumably there
<slangasek> ... reason; I think the Conflicts/Replaces on flashplugin-installer should be Breaks/Replaces (per policy); flashplugin-installer shouldn't be Multi-Arch: same (i386 and amd64 packages shouldn't be co-installable); prerm has some dead update-rc.d code that can be dropped, there is no flashplugin-downloader init script to clean up
<slangasek> mdeslaur: that's it, just minor issues
<mdeslaur> slangasek: the versioned deps on libnss3-1d and libnspr4-0d were for versions older than any release we support. Why can't debconf-2.0 be removed?
<cjwatson> because sooner or later we will manage to switch to cdebconf, and anything without | debconf-2.0 will impede that
<slangasek> mdeslaur: debconf-2.0 is the virtual package refering to the debconf *interface* in use; there are two packages in the archive implementing it, debconf and cdebconf, and what cjwatson said
<cjwatson> we went to all that effort to add it to everything ...
<cjwatson> I agree, just use ${misc:Depends}
<mdeslaur> oh! ok, I see
<Sweetshark> cjwatson: *sigh* does that have to be prebeta?
<cjwatson> Sweetshark: I don't *think* so, although it's possible it will necessitate some annoying workarounds
<cjwatson> but it needs to be done for release
<mdeslaur> slangasek: do you'd keep installing everything in the /*/share/flashplugin-installer directories?
<mdeslaur> s/do/so/
<Sweetshark> cjwatson: wont be a problem till the release
<cjwatson> Sweetshark: thanks
<cjwatson> Sweetshark: I think there are a few others too - check http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html
<slangasek> mdeslaur: if you keep the same directories for /var, we can reuse the existing debconf settings with minimal work; I think that's more important than having consistency in the directory names under /var, but I don't feel too strongly about this
<mdeslaur> slangasek: no, I agree now that I've thought about it. Thanks for your review!
<slangasek> mdeslaur: actually, I would change the /var/lib and /usr/lib directory names to match the current package name - it's only /var/cache that gets referenced in the debconf question
<slangasek> mdeslaur: no problem :)
<mdeslaur> slangasek: nspluginwrapper has some special case handling for /*/lib/flashplugin-installer, so I'll keep it as-is for now
<Laney> cjwatson: added tasks to bug 803978
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803978 in monodevelop-debugger-mdb (Ubuntu) "Please remove from Oneiric" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803978
<slangasek> mdeslaur: ah, ok
<apw> pitti, i wonder if you'd have a few mins to review an initramfs-tools fix to fix up our utterly broke compcache support and switch it to zram drive: https://code.launchpad.net/~apw/ubuntu/oneiric/initramfs-tools/compcache-zram
<Laney> we'll be coming up with some more removals soon to complete the transition
<Laney> also db4o is NEW if you fancy it
<apw> (pitti of course that would not be something we'd want uploaded before b1 is out)
 * ahasenack -> lunch
<doko> siretart, x264 ping
<Laney> all punted to -archive except for nlog removal which is coming up
<mdeslaur> slangasek, infinity: flashplugin-nonfree uploaded. thanks!
<Daviey> Does this mean we can all have glorious flash agin?
<Daviey> again?
<ion> FSVO glorious
<siretart> doko: hi
<infinity> mdeslaur: New binary accepted.  Please submit it to rigorous upgrade testing.  Pretty please? :)
<mdeslaur> infinity: I tested it before uploading
<infinity> mdeslaur: I assumed.
<slangasek> mdeslaur: thanks for taking care of it :)
<mdz> kees, Keybuk, pitti, will you be attending techboard in 30 minutes?
<mdz> (cjwatson and sabdfl sent apologies already)
<sgnb> infinity: you can sync ocaml-extunix from sid now
<pitti> mdz: yes
<pitti> mdz: who is chairing today?
<mdz> pitti, I am
<ScottK> slangasek: I have this feeling https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20110816/+build/2697906/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.korundum_4%3A4.7.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is multiarch related.  I'd appreciate any hints you might have to offer.
<slangasek> ScottK: has akonadi been rebuilt yet for multiarched qt?  It embeds paths in its cmake files, so at minimum needs a no-change rebuild
<slangasek> (debfx commented the other day that he'd like to fix this "properly" in cmake, but that's a tall order)
<slangasek> ah yes, you did that rebuild on the 18th
<ScottK> slangasek: Yep.
<slangasek> could be the same problem in another library further up the stack.  libsoprano, probably?
<ScottK> I'll try it.
<shbk> does anybody have experience with compiling of modules for kernel?   I've described problem detailed here : http://gekannt.narod2.ru/       .thanks in advance
<pitti> drat, ubiquity seems to silently crash with new pygobject
<pitti> ev: ^ did you happen to try ubiquity with the pygobject 2.90 packages already? I'm going to look into this, but want to avoid double work in debugging
<shbk> I can't find linux/module.h,  do I need to recompile kernel?
<cjwatson> apt-get install linux-headers-$(uname -r)
<Daviey> For dh python2 transitions, is python > 2.6.6-3~ a requirement or a recommendation... and could i have some more detail on the reasoning please?
<shbk> I have done this
<sladen> shbk: install linux-headers-*  http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=linux/module.h
<shbk> sh@sh-laptop:~$ uname -r
<shbk> 2.6.32-33-generic
<shbk> I have headers
<cjwatson> perhaps your module's build system is broken then
<shbk> I didn't do nothing them yet, honestly
<cjwatson> it should (IIRC) be passing -I/lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build/include to the compile
<cjwatson> *compiler
<cjwatson> and if you're running gcc by hand, you'll need to do that
<shbk> I'm trying
<ScottK> slangasek: Seemed to help.  I'll clean this up and go for it.  Thanks.
<slangasek> ScottK: cool-o
<mdz> pitti, cjwatson, Keybuk, who chaired the previous meeting? no minutes went out
<shbk> I 've done,  nevertheless,I 'am receiving new errors   : gccÂ  -DMODULE -D__KERNEL__ -I/lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build/include hello.c -o hello.o
<shbk> In file included from /lib/modules/2.6.32-33-generic/build/include/linux/list.h:6,
<shbk> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  from /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.32-33/include/linux/module.h:9,
<shbk> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  from hello.c:1:
<shbk> /lib/modules/2.6.32-33-generic/build/include/linux/prefetch.h:14:27: error: asm/processor.h: No such file or directory
<shbk> /lib/modules/2.6.32-33-generic/build/include/linux/prefetch.h:15:23: error: asm/cache.h: No such file or directory
<shbk> In file included from /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.32-33/include/linux/module.h:9,
<pitti> mdz: I'm not sure, I was on the desktop summit and couldn't attend
<shbk> and futher futher futher...
<Keybuk> mdz: I did
<shbk> here is full listing http://gekannt.narod2.ru/ on the right side
<shbk> any ideas?
<cjwatson> I suggest that either #ubuntu or #ubuntu-kernel would be more appropriate
<shbk> I was sent from ubuntu)
<cjwatson> they were wrong
<cjwatson> sorry, but this isn't an escalated support channel and they should know that ...
<shbk> may it will be better to reinstall ubuntu or  reinstall headers?
<shbk> may it help?
<cjwatson> vast overkill and will not help.
<cjwatson> you just need a fixed module build system, but (a) I don't know the exact details and (b) this isn't the right place
<shbk> well , nevetheless thanks for #ubuntu-kernel)
<cjwatson> you might look for a competently maintained module and borrow its build system
<cjwatson> I suspect it might end up including /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build/Makefile somewhere along the way, but I haven't looked at any of this for ages
<cjwatson> rolling your own build system is unlikely to be a good use of time, anyway
<sladen> shbk: http://lwn.net/images/pdf/LDD3/ch02.pdf
<shbk> I 've started from this book, authors are Alessandro Rubini && jonatan Corbet, I'm in a circle)
<sgnb> infinity: and oasis should be rebuilt as well
<doko> Daviey, soren: rampart seems to belong to the eucalyptus stack, but is still in main. could you have a look?
<doko> same for axis2c
<soren> AFAIK, they were only there for Eucalyptus' sake. If nothing else needs them, I don't see any reason not to demote them.
<Daviey> doko: Oh, that can go.  Infact, i'd like to kill our debain delta on that.. but that is unrelated.
<doko> Daviey, well, find out what keeps it in main ...
<Daviey> doko: I can't see that anything is, it's not directly seeded - and it's rdepends are all universe. :/
<stgraber> doko: where do you see it still in main? A quick lookup here shows me that source is in universe and all its binaries too
<stgraber> doko: same with axis2c actually, source and binaries appear as being in universe here (up to date oneiric)
<Daviey> doko: where are you seeing it in main?
<Daviey> stgraber: yeah, that is what i am seeing.
<doko> stgraber, ahh, fooled by the test rebuild page
<pitti> darn LibO FTBFS, seems to stumble over new libpq-dev from today :/
<ahasenack> is there a mailing lest to send basic packaging questions to? Perhaps motu?
<jtaylor> ahasenack: the best place to ask is probably debian-mentors@lists.debian.org or #ubuntu-packaging on freenode and #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org
<ahasenack> jtaylor: cool, didn't know about #ubuntu-packaging either, thanks
<Quintasan> How do I disable multiarch?
<tjaalton> Quintasan: install i386 version, or another distro ;)
<slangasek> Quintasan: what about multiarch is it that you want to disable?
<tjaalton> actually, i386 is equally multiarch so scratch that..
<infinity> i386 has multiarch too.  But I assume he meants "how do I make it stop downloading Packages files for another arch?"
<infinity> meant*
<tjaalton> right
<Quintasan> infinity: yeah, this is confusing to say at least
<Quintasan> Like getting conflicts on installing pbuilder
<infinity> Eh?
<slangasek> that's not multiarch's fault
<Quintasan> Well, maybe not pbuilder
<Quintasan> Well, let me put it other way -> http://wstaw.org/m/2011/08/25/plasma-desktopJN2047.jpg <-- this doesn't look helpful no matter how I look at it
<slangasek> yep
<slangasek> so if you're sure you want to disable multiarch, edit /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg.d/multiarch and comment out the line
<infinity> slangasek: Oh.  Do you know if there a bug filed (or a dpkg patch in the works) for why wildcard matches on dpkg -l don't show foreign arch packages?
<Quintasan> slangasek: Can bad things happen when I disable it?
<infinity> slangasek: (Compare the output of "dpkg -l zlib\* | grep ^i" with "dpkg -l | grep '^ii  zlib'")
<slangasek> though if you were to help improve aptitude to do more sensible things with multiarch, that would be better :)
<slangasek> infinity: dpkg -l zlib:* - not a bug but a deliberate design decision
<slangasek> sorry, dpkg -l zlib*:*
<slangasek> Quintasan: you won't be able to install flashplugin, nspluginwrapper, or skype (from partner)
<slangasek> if you don't care about those things, there are no other consequences for you currently :)
<Quintasan> Urgh
<infinity> slangasek: Hrm.  That's deliberate?  Seems a bit goofy and unintuitive to me.  But okay.
<slangasek> infinity: it's a backwards-compatibility thing
<slangasek> buxy can explain in detail :)
<infinity> slangasek: Yeah, I guess I can see that.  Still wildly unintuitive.
<infinity> slangasek: I don't need detail, I can see why.
<tumbleweed> aptitude seems to want to get rid of all my i386 packages, whenever there's any dependency problems *anywhere* (not related to the i386 packages) :/
<slangasek> yep, sorry about that
<micahg> tumbleweed: bug 831768
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831768 in aptitude (Ubuntu) "aptitude cannot handle the same packages of different architectures being installed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831768
<slangasek> update-manager and software-center both do better
<infinity> And apt.
<slangasek> synaptic, aptitude, dselect all still have gaps
<infinity> I wonder how dselect's coping.
<infinity> Ahh. :)
<slangasek> infinity: except for the lack of interactivity for apt :)
<infinity> slangasek: Yeah.
<Quintasan> slangasek: so flashplugin-installer pulling i386 libs is normal now?
<tumbleweed> slangasek: sure, but none of them handle interactive upgrades (like we all need every day)
<infinity> Well, if I want interactive, I still prefer dselect (I know, I'm weird), but I very rarely need that sort of thing anyway.
<tumbleweed> ah, that was mentioned :)
<infinity> Quintasan: It always has, it just used to do it via the gian ia32-libs blob, and now it does it correctly. :P
<slangasek> Quintasan: yes - ia32-libs is die-die-die-deprecated
<infinity> s/gian/giant/
<Quintasan> I see
<slangasek> it was an unmaintainable stopgap solution
<slangasek> tumbleweed: actually, update-manager does me fine for daily interactive upgrades
<infinity> I have no real issues with apt for my daily oneiric upgrades...
<Quintasan> http://paste.kde.org/114355
<Quintasan> Uhm
<infinity> But then again, I tend to feed it the same sort of info I'd give an interactive package manager.
<Quintasan> Is this also normal?
<micahg> slangasek: update-manager doesn't show the change in package sizes, which is why I like aptitude
<infinity> (apt-get --purge install add1 add2 remove1- remove2-)
<slangasek> Quintasan: that's an oft-reported bug, it may have to do with missing i386 libraries; which version of flashplugin-installer do you have currently?
<slangasek> (4ubuntu4 was uploaded today which should fix this)
<slangasek> infinity: shorter: apt-get purge add1+ add2+ remove1 remove2
<infinity> slangasek: Oh right, because purge is actually just "--purge remove" now, isn't it?
<Quintasan> slangasek: I see, my mirror must be out of date then
<Quintasan> 4ubuntu3 here
<infinity> slangasek: And remove is actually just negative install.  Clever.
 * Quintasan changes to us mirror
<slangasek> Quintasan: yes - so you have the 4ubuntu3 amd64 flashplugin-installer, which relies on ia32-libs for the libraries and that no longer works.  Upgrading should fix that
<slangasek> mdeslaur: I don't suppose you closed the million open bugs on flashplugin-nonfree when you uploaded? :)
<mdeslaur> slangasek: I just closed the one I was subscribed to...let me take a look
<Quintasan> us mirror ++
<Quintasan> slangasek: Indeed, that worked.
<slangasek> mdeslaur: actually, I guess they're probably filed against nspluginwrapper... bug #833558, bug #830784
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833558 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "package flashplugin-installer (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 (dup-of: 830802)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833558
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830802 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Firefox freezes and grays out because of missing i386 Flash Player dependencies on x86-64" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830802
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830784 in nspluginwrapper (Ubuntu) "Problem when installing flashplugin" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830784
<slangasek> Quintasan: good good.  I'll do an upload of ia32-libs to make the upgrade a bit more seamless too.
<mdeslaur> slangasek: I've just duped a bunch of flashplugin-nonfree bugs, I'll take a look at nspluginwrapper
<slangasek> mdeslaur: ta :)
 * Quintasan is not sure how multiarch is better but he can help with testing
<slangasek> Quintasan: because when a security upload is done for a library, it becomes available to all users immediately via the i386 package instead of requiring somebody to upload an ia32-libs source package the size of a CD
<Quintasan> Well, I can't dispute with that ^_^
<slangasek> here, you can watch me blather on about multiarch at length if you like. :) meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2011/debconf11/high/747_Multiarch_in_Debian_6_months_or_6_years_on.ogv
 * Quintasan downloads
<Quintasan> Woah, 540MB
<Quintasan> slangasek: You must have had a hard time talking so long :P
<slangasek> you clearly haven't met me
<slangasek> ;)
<Quintasan> Maybe we can meet at UDS
<slangasek> are you coming to this one?
<Quintasan> No idea, I need sponsorship to go there :)
 * Quintasan is just a high school student
<infinity> You don't want to listen to slangasek speak.  It's a trap.  Don't do it.
<Quintasan> :O
<stgraber> slangasek: and there go my next 40 minutes ;) needed a break anyway
<slangasek> stgraber: hey, slacker, I didn't say *you* should watch it! :)
<slangasek> Quintasan: did you apply for sponsorship?  I believe the sponsorship queue is closed now
<Quintasan> slangasek: I did apply, waiting for result :P
<slangasek> yeah, the queue *just* closed, decisions haven't been made yet
<stgraber> slangasek: :)
<infinity> pitti: You have a sync sitting unflushed on cocoplum, did you plan to do something with that? (pygobject-2)
<slangasek> I guess that's the one he was still trying to work out whether it breaks ubiquity
<infinity> pitti: Err, nevermind, was just a crufty source package, not an upload.
<infinity> pitti: Ignore me. :)
<infinity> slangasek: Yeah, it didn't have a changes file.  flush-syncs (helpfully?) deleted it on cleanup though. :P
<slangasek> ok :)
<ScottK> doko: Would you please retry korundum in the archive rebuild?
<astraljava> Stumbling with germinate, how do you guys test seeds locally? I can't seem to get the command just right.
<astraljava> Figured that I need to use the --bzr option, but now I stumble on missing platform.oneiric seed.
<infinity> astraljava: -S http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/ -d oneiric -s ubuntu.oneiric
<infinity> astraljava: (For example)
<infinity> astraljava: The manpage is reasonably verbose.
<infinity> astraljava: Or are you running it against a local bzr branch that's incomplete?
<astraljava> infinity: Not a local one, but one that's in LP.
<astraljava> But not yet uploaded for spinning the images.
<infinity> astraljava: Well, if you have a seed that depends on another branch (like ubuntu.oneiric depends on platform.oneiric), I suspect you'll need side-by-side branches of both.  But don't quote me on that, I've never tried.
<astraljava> infinity: Right. I see from germinate logs, that it tries to fetch platform.oneiric when building Studio images, but continues even when not finding such. But it doesn't seem to work locally.
<infinity> I don't recall it having any clever fallback code for dependencies, though, so you probably need to copy all the deps.
<astraljava> Actually, it does fallback on ~ubuntu-core-dev's platform. How can I do that locally?
<astraljava> Couldn't find that bit of information from the manpages, while admittedly they're pretty elaborate, like you mentioned.
<infinity> Not entirely sure.  You might be able to specify -S more than once.  Like I said, never tried.  I have a local mirror of all the seeds anyway.
<astraljava> Thanks, that was all I needed. Just branched platform.oneiric, and I'm good to go. Cheers! :)
<astraljava> Just have to remember to bzr update it regularily, I suppose.
<doko> ScottK, done
<kees> slangasek: so... multiarch silliness.
<kees> my system doesn't seem to acknowledge that :i386 exists.
<kees> $ cat /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg.d/multiarch
<kees> foreign-architecture i386
<kees> yet:
<kees> E: Unable to locate package flashplugin-downloader:i386
<slangasek> kees: apt-get update'd?
<kees> slangasek: yup. it's up to date.
<kees> though it's as if apt is ignoring i386
<slangasek> kees: mv /var/cache/apt/pkgcache.bin* /somewhereelse?
<slangasek> (&& apt-get update again)
<kees> slangasek: nope :(
<infinity> kees: apt-get update doesn't even show i386 Packages files being downloaded?
<slangasek> kees: is your local mirror amd64-only?
<kees> infinity: it doesn't show i386 being fetched, no. slangasek: my mirror is both.
<kees> (but I'm pulling from the main archive too)
<slangasek> hmm
<vista_killer> hi
<slangasek> kees: local apt config settings that are overriding dpkg?
<kees> there used to be a second apt config to turn on multiarch...
<slangasek> kees: apt *defaults* to what dpkg uses, but you can override it
<vista_killer> i have this bug with kernel module nv_tco https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/791089
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 791089 in linux (Ubuntu) "crash after rebooting or shutting down from Ubuntu 11.04" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<slangasek> kees: $ apt-config dump | grep APT::Architectures
<vista_killer> i have the same bug to 11.04 and now after the upgrade i find that the bug still exists
<kees> slangasek: ah-ha. that's it. when "getting rid" of the apt multi-arch config, I left it _defined_ as amd64. I need to drop the entire line.
<kees> muuuuch better
<kees> thanks!
<slangasek> vista_killer: this is not a support channel; you could try asking on #ubuntu-kernel, you'd at least be more likely to reach the right audience for your question there
<slangasek> kees: aha :)
<vista_killer> ok sorry
<kees> slangasek: wow. that is a lot of :i386 to install. :)
<slangasek> kees: software is complicated :P
<kees> slangasek: ia32-libs is huge ;)
<StevenK> It used to be bigger ...
<RAOF> Boo.  wine's broken.
<SpamapS> Hm, if something is open source (eucalyptus) but only works properly with sun java .. is it appropriate to move it to multiverse?
<micahg> SpamapS: is this new? wasn't it in main?
<SpamapS> micahg: eucalyptus was dropped to universe for 11.10
<micahg> SpamapS: right, I meant the java dep
<SpamapS> and now bug 791607 is apparently stumping their engineers or something
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791607 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Oneiric Eucalyptus fails to start up" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791607
<SpamapS> Actually I think the deal was that they wanted to do euca 3.0 but that release date is slipping.
<micahg> slangasek: can you please copy an update for me?
<micahg> SpamapS: is it a build or run time dependency?
<micahg> SpamapS: ah, I see the comment in the bug, I don't think it would need to move to multiverse if it recommends non-free software, but you wouldn't be able to add a depends on something in partner AFAIK
<kees>  libssl1.0.0:i386 1.0.0d-2ubuntu2 (Multi-Arch: same) is not co-installable with libssl1.0.0:amd64 1.0.0d-2ubuntu1 (Multi-Arch: no) which is currently installed
<micahg> kees: did you enable multiarch?
<kees> micahg: I did. seems dpkg is unhappy. doing some manual per-package installs now...
<kees> wow, it's blowing up on all kinds of stuff :(
<micahg> kees: I assume you're dist-upgrading?
<kees> yeah :)
<kees> heh,    while ! apt-get dist-upgrade ; do apt-get -f install ; done   ;)
<doko> kees: add a dpkg --configure --pending in between
<kees> doko: ah, yeah, good idea.
<micahg> StevenK: are you available for an archive copy?
<StevenK> micahg: What are you after?
<micahg> StevenK: ubuntu-mozilla-security thunderbird 3.1.12+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.10.04.1 to lucid-security
<slangasek> RAOF: wine broken how?
<slangasek> SpamapS: yeah, I think a depends on sun-java would translate to multiverse :/
<slangasek> micahg: sure, what's the update?
<micahg> slangasek: ah, I ask StevenK already, but thanks
<slangasek> oh, did StevenK take this one?
<slangasek> ok
<StevenK> I haven't yet
<slangasek> got it then
<slangasek> micahg: done
<micahg> slangasek: thanks
<cnd> have we entered beta freeze yet?
<cnd> or can I push a small ftbfs fix still
* micahg changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Beta Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
* micahg changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Beta 1 Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<cnd> hmmâ¦ looks like I just missed it
<micahg> cnd: if it's needed for beta, I believe so
#ubuntu-devel 2011-08-26
<cnd> micahg: it's not needed for beta
<micahg> cnd: nah, happened about an hour ago
<micahg> or 2 hours actually :)
<cnd> I only want to push it so I don't forget to do it later :)
<slangasek> cnd: ftbfs fixes probably still warrant getting in
<cnd> slangasek: ok, I'll take your word for it
<micahg> cnd: an AA will have to process it in any event since the archive is frozen
<cnd> yeah
 * cnd fears the retribution of an AA
<slangasek> SpamapS: so a year ago, you argued for putting libdbi-drivers in main because libdbi is useless without it (bug #608556)... I would argue that libdbi is worthless even with it and would like to redemote libdbi-drivers so I don't have to touch it for the sqlite demotion. ;)  Any thoughts?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 608556 in libdbi-drivers (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libdbi-drivers" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608556
<micahg> slangasek: is it too late to take an axe to sqlite?  most of the applications already support sqlite3
<micahg> or should we wait for Debian and or P?
<slangasek> micahg: define "axe"?
<Daviey> slangasek: wait, multiverse can depend on partner?  Is there precedent of that?
<slangasek> micahg: you mean wholesale removal?
<micahg> slangasek: yes
<SpamapS> slangasek: rrdtool and gnucash recommend or depend on libdbi at the moment
<slangasek> Daviey: well, I would be more sanguine about allowing a package to depend on a partner package in multiarch than in partner - but yes, ideally we don't want multiarch to depend on partner eithe
<slangasek> r
<SpamapS> slangasek: and really, libdbi is useless w/o the drivers.
<Daviey> slangasek: I think you have multiarch on your brain :)
<SpamapS> slangasek: I'd be quite supportive of disabling 'sqlite' tho.
<slangasek> SpamapS: sure; that doesn't mean we want to encourage its use or suggest that we support that lousy library
<SpamapS> slangasek: there are some very excited folks who use rrdtool's libdbi integration to graph their databases.
<slangasek> SpamapS: rrdtool has to link against it if it's to be able to use it at all, so libdbi has to be in main - but I don't think that translates to extending support to libdbi-drivers
<slangasek> sure, and that integration would still be there
<slangasek> they'd just pull it from universe
<SpamapS> slangasek: just.. not usable.. ?
<slangasek> where it belongs
<slangasek> who are these hypothetical people who don't have universe enabled on their systems? :
<slangasek> )
<SpamapS> Truth be told I don't like it either.. we could probably make a strong appeal to the upstreams to use libodbc instead.
<slangasek> +1
<slangasek> in the meantime, what do we do with libdbi-drivers?  I stil think it should be demoted... we've been trying to get sqlite out of main for years already, and this is the last blocker.  We could demote them both, or you could upload libdbi-drivers if you prefer? :)
<RAOF> slangasek: Wine just looks like ia32-libs needs to be updated to not depend on lib32v4l-0.  And then add some appropriate depends somewhere.
<slangasek> RAOF: oh, that bit
<slangasek> add what appropriate depends where?
<RAOF> I don't know, but whatever actually depnds on libv4l is obviously going to need to depend on libv4l-0:i386 now.
<slangasek> can't be done
<slangasek> No way to express a dependency on a foreign package of a specific architecture; ia32-libs should just pick up libv4l for the moment, if it's really needed
<micahg> slangasek: wine could be give a dependency i386 only package :)
<slangasek> micahg: libv4l-0 isn't i386-only though, and I'm not going to do that horrible trick for a library
<micahg> slangasek: well, if there's more than one library, it might make sense to do it in the wine package
<infinity> Indeed, wine could depend on wine-libs, or something, an i386 package with dependencies to i386 libs.
<infinity> But if we keep perpetuating that hack over and over, it starts making a valid excuse for allowing foo:arch deps. :/
<slangasek> oh, it's perfectly *valid* to have foo:arch deps
<slangasek> it's just not implemented in dak, soyuz, or dpkgapt.
<infinity> Well, yes.  That's what I meant by "allow".
<infinity> As in, actually implement it. :P
<slangasek> I wish I could make code happen just by giving the bits permission
<infinity> *grin*
<slangasek> anyway, yeah, it's going to be needed down the line
<slangasek> but ia32-libs isn't going to cause it to move up on my priority list any
<infinity> Actually, have you considered replacing ia32-libs with a similar "depend on an i386-only metapackage" hack?
<slangasek> can't
<slangasek> half the libs it depends on aren't multiarch-ready yet
<infinity> Or will that not work because ia32-libs is still bi-arch stuff, and things can't find the multiarch versions?
<infinity> Yeah.  You beat me to it.
<infinity> Though reasoning from the other direction, perhaps.
<slangasek> SpamapS: no further comment on libdbi-drivers? :)
<SpamapS> slangasek: I hesitate to defend it too much, but I do think its a bit.. funky to have libdbi in main w/o them.
<slangasek> SpamapS: are you willing to do the upload to cut out libdbd-sqlite?
<slangasek> if not, we don't actually support it - QED ;)
<SpamapS> slangasek: yeah that sounds easy
<slangasek> ok
<Daviey> SpamapS: slangasek is setting up a trap for you.. touched-it-last next cycle ;)
<slangasek> darn right I am
<slangasek> you'll have to adopt it in Debian
 * SpamapS dons his sucker hat
<slangasek> I thought the trap was fairly obvious :)
<SpamapS> I've tried adopting it in Debian. :-P
<slangasek> OTOH, if you get rrdtool to switch to odbc, you can make me do all the work :)
<micahg> slangasek: you seem to have evaded my question about dropping sqlite entirely :)
<slangasek> micahg: ohright - yes, I don't think it's too late for that provided someone does the work to cull the reverse-dependencies
<slangasek> but I wouldn't remove it this late in the cycle without first fixing the revdeps
<slangasek> since that's not fair to folks who use those packages
<micahg> slangasek: right,there aren't too many rdeps left actually, I have to actually see if any of them only use sqlite and not sqlite3
<ScottK> doko: Thanks.
<ScottK> jbicha: Is your gnome-shell upload bugfix only?
<micahg> slangasek: that's a shame, a 500MB upload for a one line change + changelog (ia32-libs)
<Keybuk> I pity the mirrors
<slangasek> micahg: I has fast internets now, uploading ia32-libs doesn't bother me anymore :)
<micahg> heh
<slangasek> I really should've refreshed the contents before upload though... well, I'll do that in a few weeks when skype/partner is sorted
<slangasek> or I'll do it when dealing with v4l or something
<jbicha> ScottK: no but it's in universe and it has a lot of bug fixes: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/tree/NEWS
<jbicha> one issue is that the Gnome Shell in the archives now is almost 2 months old so it's difficult to tell what bugs are still broken upstream
<ScottK> jbicha: It needs an FFe.
<ScottK> Sounds like something reasonable, but we need to follow the process.
<jbicha> ScottK: GNOME 3.2 has a standing FFe
<jbicha> I understand that we're in Beta Freeze but GNOME Shell isn't shipped on the CDs
<infinity> ScottK: The process doesn't explicitely require bug filing and paper trails, that's just the best way to document things if you can't get an FFe more readily.
<infinity> jbicha: And you're right about GNOME's standing FFe, combined with gnome-shell being universe.  I'm fine with it.
<ScottK> OK.
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> infinity: I meant to sync it, but aborted as I noticed yet another problem in ubiquity first
<pitti> ev: I figured out the two remaining ubiquity regressions FYI; I followed up to bug 829186, we need to replace the static "xklavier" import
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829186 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Mixes static and GI library bindings" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829186
<ricotz> janimo, hello, are you around?
<janimo> ricotz, hello, now
 * janimo feels this is clutter related :)
<ricotz> janimo, yes kind of ;)
<ricotz> could you testbuild this on armel http://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/gnome-shell/gnome-shell_3.1.4-0ubuntu2.debdiff
<janimo> ricotz, sure
<ricotz> janimo, thanks
<ricotz> janimo, please say so if you want a real package dsc
<janimo> ricotz, I'll just apt-get that, I assume it is against latest in oneiric
 * janimo just booted up the pandaboard
<ricotz> yes
<janimo> ricotz, what is happening on armel if no glx is used?
<janimo> is functionality missing in GS?
<ricotz> janimo, the uncommented parts arent real functionalities, they are just perf related
<ricotz> janimo, the configure* changes probably arent needed
<janimo> ok
<ricotz> janimo, i hope this wont need mutter to be patched too
<doko> first compiz crash today
<dholbach> good morning
<pitti> ev: I have a question for you in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sso-client/+bug/829186/comments/31
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829186 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Mixes static and GI library bindings" [High,Triaged]
<janimo> ricotz, GS builds fine with your patch
<OdyX> Hmm. It's unfortunate that the Natty PPAs don't support .xz. What else similar can I use ? lzma ?
<ricotz> janimo, thanks, i hope it runs too ;)
<janimo> ricotz, I do not have my panda set up for graphics testing ATM, but I suppose it should run :)
<ricotz> janimo, ok :), thank you
<micahg> OdyX: I think that feature was just released to launchpad :)
<ricotz> micahg, xz deb compression?
<micahg> yeah
<OdyX> micahg: okay, but do Natty hosts support data.tar.xz ?
<ricotz> nice
<micahg> bug 619152
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 619152 in Launchpad itself "Add data.tar.xz support" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/619152
<ricotz> OdyX, xz tarball are supported for all pockets
<tjaalton> almost to give up.. is there a bzr equivalent of 'git show $sha'?
<RAOF> tjaalton: bzr log -p -r $REVISION
<RAOF> tjaalton: bzr alias show="log -v -p" âº
<jbicha> micahg: ooh, that looks useful
<jbicha> let's just convert the CD to xz so that we can get it <700MB again ;-)
<tjaalton> RAOF: did you mean 'bzr alias show="log -p -r"' :)
<tjaalton> thanks anyway
<RAOF> tjaalton: Hm, that might be a nice optimisation! :)
<micahg> pitti: regarding Firefox 6 for maverick, I'm running a little behind, so I'll get it up later today and it'll be ready over the weekend (takes ~17hrs on armel), I can send you an e-mail before my EOD today and let you know the status and when it'll be ready to be copied to -proposed
<pitti> micahg: cool, thanks
<ev> pitti: looking over all of this now
<pitti> ev: this is all post-beta 1 matter now anyway
<pitti> ev: the main thing that concerns me is that the xklavier stuff caused hangs with the current pygobject for me, i. e. I'm afraid it might cause trouble with the current CDs
<ev> indeed, that is worrisome
<pitti> ev: but either it's happening in a thread, or the different program context prevents the hang
<pitti> it doesn't seem to happen in ubiquity, just in the standalone python test case
<pitti> doko: present for you: libdbi-drivers_0.8.3-1-0ubuntu5_source.changes just uploaded, dropping sqlite
<pitti> doko: once that gets accepted, we can demote sqlite
<tjaalton> hmm, does anyone know how a package depending on ia32-libs should be fixed to be installable in both oneiric and earlier releases?
<doko> pitti, except for the php5 build failure on amd64 :-/
<pitti> ah, right -- always the n+1st thing :/
<doko> but hey, it's now away on powerpc and i386
<tjaalton> ah, I'll see how flashplugin-installer is packaged
<RAOF> tjaalton: I'm not sure that's a wonderful role-model; I believe slangasek has made dark and secretive pacts with apt to make that work.
<tjaalton> RAOF: damn, I noticed that bibble5 wants to deinstall along with ia32-libs, and began filing a bug upstream..
<tjaalton> and flashplugin-nonfree doesn't seem backportable anyway
<RAOF> No, I don't think it is.  Doesn't it now Depend: on a package that's only available on i386?
<tjaalton> which one?
<RAOF> I can't recall.
<tjaalton> oh I see
<tjaalton> it has flashplugin-downloader which is i386 only, and flashplugin-installer installs it
<tjaalton> depends on it
<slangasek> RAOF: naw, the pact is still caught up in legal review on apt's side; mdeslaur went with a much simpler approach that doesn't involve nearly so much blood :)
<tjaalton> slangasek: long story short; is there a way for proprietary software vendors to change the deps so that the package is installable on both multiarch and pre-multiarch ubuntu?
<tjaalton> something like '$i386-package | ia32-libs' ?
<tjaalton> in deps
<tjaalton> hmm no
<slangasek> tjaalton: they should just provide an i386 package, and people should install that via multiarch
<slangasek> if they want to provide an amd64 package for older releases that depends on ia32-libs, they can
<tjaalton> slangasek: ah, of course. and that exists :)
<slangasek> (and ia32-libs isn't quite dead yet)
<tjaalton> something is making ia32-libs deinstall on my machine
<slangasek> that's the libv4l bug
<dholbach> tjaalton, is it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/808064?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 808064 in wine1.3 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[FTBFS] v4l-utils: stop building biarch package" [High,Confirmed]
<dholbach> see the last comment
<tjaalton> yeah, it's the same. thanks
<slangasek> I intend to fix that tomorrow; I wouldn't trouble yourselves with having to touch ia32-libs, unless you're really keen
<tjaalton> nah it's fine, I can reinstall bibble later, need the upgrade more
<dholbach> I tried installing the i386 version of google-talkplugin but for some reason that didn't work
<tjaalton> actually I'll just install the i386 version of bibble, duh
<slangasek> dholbach: we're well short of 100% archive coverage for multiarch libraries.  Pastebin the error?
<dholbach> slangasek, LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library /opt/google/talkplugin/libnpgtpo3dautoplugin.so [/opt/google/talkplugin/libnpgtpo3dautoplugin.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32]
<dholbach> LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library /opt/google/talkplugin/libnpgoogletalk.so [/opt/google/talkplugin/libnpgoogletalk.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32]
<tjaalton> bibble5:i386 installs and runs fine
<dholbach> at least I guess that's what the problem is :)
<slangasek> dholbach: oh.  What is that supposed to be loaded into?  Is this a browser plugin?
<dholbach> the package installs fine and everything
<dholbach> slangasek, yes, it is
<slangasek> dholbach: right; ideally we'd want it integrated with nspluginwrapper then, the same way that flashplugin-nonfree is.  Who provides this package?
<slangasek> I guess it's distributed by google directly?
<dholbach> slangasek, Google
<dholbach> deb http://dl.google.com/linux/talkplugin/deb/ stable main
<slangasek> heh, their 64-bit package is made for Debian, it depends on ia32-libs-gtk which isn't in Ubunut
<slangasek> s/ut/tu/
<chrisccoulson> urgh, not more stuff using nspluginwrapper ;)
<chrisccoulson> what we want is a multiarch aware plugin-container for firefox :)
<slangasek> dholbach: so it looks like the amd64 package they provide contains a 64-bit browser plugin, plus some other 32-bit binaries for some reason
<slangasek> that makes it tricky to do anything with on the Ubuntu side; it really would need to have the package split in two to allow for multiarch install
<dholbach> thank god our ia32-libs provides: ia32-libs-gtk :)
<slangasek> oh, does it?  ok
<dholbach> that's why the package was installable at all
<slangasek> but since they also offer a click-to-download website, they may not want to split the package in two and make it harder for users to install
<dholbach> I'm probably missing the obvious, but wouldn't 1) removing lib32v4l-0 from ia32-libs's list of depends and 2) adding libv4l to ia32-libs solve the problem for now? (however ugly the upstream google packaging might be)
<dholbach> ... since lib32v4l-0 is not available any more
<slangasek> dholbach: yes, it will
<slangasek> and that's what I'll do in the morning
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> you rock!
<dholbach> thanks
<slangasek> but, I'd rather like it if the google upstream packaging were improved *as well* :)
<dholbach> understood :)
<dholbach> from what I can see http://www.google.com/intl/en/+/learnmore/forum/ is the feedback mechanism there
<siretart> cjwatson: is it okay if I upload libav (with the MAP_ANONYMOUS bugfix of yours included) to oneiric now, despite the freeze currently being in effect?
<pitti> siretart: sounds fine, please upload
<pitti> we can review it from the queue, and if it seems unintrusive enough, accept it; otherwise, keep it for post beta 1
<siretart> pitti: thanks, uploaded
<OdyX> tkamppeter: could you please detail https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/foomatic-filters/4.0.9-1ubuntu2 to me ?
<cjwatson> astraljava: you can also (undocumentedly, sorry) pass multiple seed source URLs to -S, separated by commas
<cjwatson> ricotz,OdyX: maverick and natty support data.tar.xz, but (in practice) not older - LP enforces that data.tar.xz uploads must Pre-Depends: dpkg (>= 1.15.6)
<cjwatson> siretart: yep, what pitti said
<OdyX> cjwatson: okay. Is there such an enforcement on the Debian side ?
<cjwatson> I would have to check, but it's traditional to do that
 * cjwatson git pulls dak
<Sweetshark> pitti: testbuild is running again
 * pitti tosses in some hamster food
<ricotz> cjwatson, i am using xz tarballs for lucid+ ppas
<OdyX> ricotz: in data.tar.gz ?
<ricotz> OdyX, yes
<ricotz> i.e. https://edge.launchpad.net/~wfg/+archive/0ad.dev/+packages
<ricotz> but with lzma deb compression
<cjwatson> ricotz: lzma != xz
<ricotz> cjwatson, i know
<cjwatson> lzma only requires dpkg (>= 1.14.0)
<cjwatson> xz was not supported in dpkg until 1.15.6
<OdyX> hmm. I think I'll drop the xz-handling for those backporting PPAs.
<ricotz> cjwatson, like i wrote xz-tarballs which generate lzma compressed debs ;)
<cjwatson> ok, this isn't relevant to the question
<cjwatson> OdyX: dak doesn't seem to have the same check (IMO unwisely)
<OdyX> cjwatson: ack. lintian either.
<DktrKranz> OdyX: in theory, dak won't reject an upload if you don't pre-depend on dpkg, it does if the host running dak has an older version
<cjwatson> the approach of checking Pre-Depends is borrowed from how dak used to add such features, modelled on when data.tar.bz2 was introduced
<DktrKranz> cjwatson: perhaps that could be handled via a lintian tag + hard autoreject
<OdyX> DktrKranz: that'd be cool, yes. But dak should run those autorejects on binary-only uploads from buildds.
<OdyX> .oO(We should move the discussion to #debian-ftp @ OFTC.)
<tkamppeter> OdyX, due to improvements in Ghostscript's PDF iunterpreter and PostScript output device, especially in terms of color management and speed I have switched the PDF->PS tasks from Poppler to Ghostscript in Ubuntu. To make it all consistent, I also wnted to change the built-in PDF->PS of foomatic-rip to Ghostscript, which I have done with this patch to ghet it into Ubuntu before Beta freeze. This is not a long-term solution (therefore the
<tkamppeter>  patch instead of applying it upstream). Upstream this should be made configurable via the config file. If there is no urgency for an update of foomatic-filters in Debian, you could evcen wait for the upstream solution.
<OdyX> tkamppeter: okay. Thank you.
<astraljava> cjwatson: Alright, thanks! May I also ask for seeds upload again? I don't know where to check for if it's happened, I asked Luke a while back, but he hasn't replied.
<pitti> tjaalton: do you have some insight into bug 820370? it looks a little weird
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820370 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Tries and fails to remove /etc/gdm" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820370
<lenios> does anybody knows if the patch provided in https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/602505 can be applied before oneiric release? https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/602505
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602505 in Light Display Manager "Support Init, PreSession and PostSession script hooks" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> janimo, thanks for the unity bug fix, don't upload though please
<pitti> jibel: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-xorg-stakeholders-request has "[jibel] Arrange community testing for Alpha-2: INPROGRESS" -> did that happen?
<janimo> seb128, I am not uploading, sure
<seb128> janimo, I will likely do an upload a bit later with some other fixes included
<seb128> janimo, thanks
<cjwatson> astraljava: you mean an ubuntustudio-meta upload?  I did that yesterday.  Have the seeds changed since then?
<janimo> I am not in a hurry, and let frequently uploaded packages dealt by their de-facto maintainers
<cjwatson> astraljava: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-meta
<cjwatson> seb128: while you're there, I don't suppose you could deal with the occurrences of unity in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html ?
<cjwatson> well, occurrence.  it still build-depends on libxcb-icccm1-dev
<cjwatson> astraljava: ah, yes, looks like you made a couple of changes.  I'll update it
<seb128> cjwatson, I will have a look, thanks for pointing it
<tjaalton> pitti: yeah I just had a quick look at it when I did another commit to xorg. I'll reboot this thing and look closer..
<vista_killer> i still have this bug with the new kernel https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/791089 is there a kernel ubuntu team in this irc?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791089 in linux (Ubuntu) "crash after rebooting or shutting down from Ubuntu 11.04" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jibel> pitti, yes. I updated the status.
<pitti> jibel: ah, merci
<astraljava> cjwatson: Yep, it's work-in-progress, we're lagging behind a bit for this cycle. Thanks a bunch for your cooperation!
<mdeslaur> tjaalton: flashplugin-nonfree is kind of an exception. Normally I would just have killed the amd64 binary package. But in the flash case, we need to install nspluginwrapper on amd64. For skype and other stuff, all you need to do is simply stop shipping an amd64 package.
<doko> Sweetshark, does the lo upload only fix the one bug, or does it introduce another one? ;-P
<tjaalton> mdeslaur: yeah, I just forgot that you can actually install the i386 version of a blob instead (of a normal app) :)
<tjaalton> so didn't need f-n as an example afterall
<mdeslaur> tjaalton: cool
<Sweetshark> doko: I work on Libreoffice, I use bigger units of measure than "1 bug"
<Sweetshark> (unless fixing, which is always measure in "1 bug")
<doko> Sweetshark, so can we kill the current build on armel? already ab-used some build time
<Sweetshark> doko: the 3.4.2-2ubuntu1 build? yes
<doko> Sweetshark, well, I would appreciate having a build on armel before beta1
<Sweetshark> doko: 3.4.2-2ubuntu2 is already sponsored
<doko> directhex, Laney: could you have a look at the nunit test rebuild failure? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20110816/+build/2706515
<mdeslaur> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Beta 1 Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: mdeslaur
<jtaylor> mdeslaur: can you have a look at bug 455461, thx
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455461 in sound-juicer (Ubuntu Lucid) "Sound Juicer depends on deprecated libmusicbrainz4" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455461
<mdeslaur> jtaylor: sure, one sec
<mdeslaur> lol...libmusicbrainz4 is _older_ than libmusicbrainz3? :)
<jtaylor> yes, in one its weird
<jtaylor> someone did not adher to proper library package naming
<jtaylor> the 3 in the latter is the upstream version number no soversion
<jtaylor> in response to a question cnd asked in the merge proposal, the extra build deps are required for building with version 3, they are also in maverick+
<mdeslaur> jtaylor: yeah, looks fine. I'll update the bug and upload. thanks
<jtaylor> thx
<Laney> doko: it is fixed, ajmitch was supposed to close the bug
<doko> Laney, thanks for the update
<doko> Laney, was the fix in another package?
<Laney> doko: yeah, in mono
<Laney> the change in 2.10.4-3 fixed it
<doko> Daviey, what is the state of bug 795087?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 795087 in netifaces (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-netifaces" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795087
<Daviey> doko: zul is away today, i'll do it shortly.
 * apw is trying to update-manager to oneiric from natty, and i am getting some 403 Forbidden returns, known?
<doko> Daviey, never mind, everything was done, but the state was still on incomplete, and directhex didn't see either
<Daviey> doko: Ah, ScottK tackled it
<Daviey> super
<directhex> doko, in upstream 2.10.4, upstream reverted a detail we were relying on for our transition to work. we reverted their revert in 2.10.4-3.
<cjwatson> apw: any chance of switching lbm over to 3.0.0-9?
<apw> cjwatson, can do
 * cjwatson is unaware of 403 Forbidden on upgrade; no doubt it depends on the mirror
<cjwatson> gb.archive seems kind of outdated the other day
<cjwatson> *seemed
<Daviey> cjwatson: i noticed i was getting 403's via squid-deb-proxy the other day, with that disabled it worked.
<apw> cjwatson, yeah seems that the files are there but not readable on gb.a.u.c ok on a.u.c
<apw> cjwatson, who owns talking to mirrors about problems
<cjwatson> apw: not sure, try #ubuntu-mirrors
<ScottK> Daviey: What did I tackle?
<Daviey> ScottK: lots, and lots of win.
<Daviey> ScottK: you fixed python-netifaces
<ScottK> Oh, right.  The broken dh_python2 transition.
<ScottK> No problem.
<Daviey> yah
<Daviey> thanks.
<apw> cjwatson, just checking you want this -lbm update for oneiric uploaded now?
<cjwatson> apw: yes please, if you can
<apw> cjwatson, on it
 * apw is just doing an upgrade and gdm and not lightdm is the default in the popup dialog, is that expected or a bug
 * Sweetshark is happy about his big ceiling fan today.
<victorp> sconklin, ping
<sconklin> victorp, what's up?
<victorp> sconklin, I have a quick questoin
<victorp> question rather
<victorp> about srus and security patches
<victorp> do we have a kernel that only updates with security updates or the -updates kernel is the only one for maintenance
 * victorp not sure that question made any sense
<jdstrand> I can answer that
<victorp> jdstrand, cool
<victorp> fwiw I am mainly interested for server
<jdstrand> victorp: in almost all cases, kernels with security fixes will have srus fixes as well. that is the SRU cadence
<victorp> right
<jdstrand> victorp: if an -updates kernel has no security fixes, it doesn't go to -security
<pgraner> victorp, to answer you question the is not just a security stream
<victorp> pgraner, yes - that was my question
<jdstrand> victorp: it is theoretically possible for an out of band kernel to go through -security only, with no sru patches, but this is only for emergencies
<victorp> so -security is not only security fixes, but all security fixes + whatever else made it into that kernel
<victorp> jdstrand, ack
<jdstrand> victorp: well, -security is for kernels with security fixes-- and they typically have other things as well
<victorp> yes, makes sense
<jdstrand> victorp: it used to be a bit different, but that was untenable and why we have the current process
<jdstrand> (now)
<victorp> the reason I am asking is because I need to figure out how often we need to test somethink that has a dependecy on ABI
<victorp> so I was hoping that -security would break ABI less often that -updates
<jdstrand> victorp: you might lighten your kernel churn by disabling -updates, but the frequency of vulns found in the kernel kinda makes it unlikely that it would be significantly fewer upgrades
<victorp> but sounds that it would be almost as often
<victorp> jdstrand, agreed
<victorp> sconklin, I am right on assuming that each new -updates kernel is very likely to break ABI compatibility with the previous one?
<pgraner> victorp, yes, it almost always does
<victorp> pgraner, thanks that is what I though. fair enough
<om26er> mdeslaur, Hi! could you sponsor https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/oneiric/empathy/fix-crashes/+merge/72761 please
<mdeslaur> om26er: let me take a look
<om26er> mdeslaur, are you bulding it?
<mdeslaur> om26er: I will, yes...but am asking in #ubuntu-release if I can upload it since the archive is frozen
<om26er> ok.
<mdeslaur> om26er: ok, got approval, will upload in a few minutes
<om26er> mdeslaur, great, thank you :)
<pitti> ogasawara: OOI, why are the 3.0.1 upstream kernels called 3.0.0-9?
<ogasawara> pitti: mostly old habits... when we'd originally had 2.6 kenels we stayed with the 2.6 package version, even though they were technically 2.6.x.  And we originally started out with a 2 digit 3.0 version scheme.  Now that we're into a 3 digit scheme, we could likely start reflecting the actual stable version.
<ogasawara> pitti: I'll bring it up with the rest of the team
<pitti> not a biggie, I just wondered
<ogasawara> pitti: tgardner did also bring up a good point that we don't always take all of upstream stable, so it wouldn't be entirely accurate
<ogra_> pitti, seems tp-glib is gone from http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ too now, seems it got fixed today
<mdeslaur> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Alpha 3 released | Archive: Beta 1 Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/or6CHJ | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy ->  oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<cjwatson> ScottK,debfx: would anyone cry if I dropped the ruby-kate package?  it can't build since kate_smoke went away
<ScottK> cjwatson: No.  Removing it is on the TODO list.
<cjwatson> I'll go ahead and do that then
<ScottK> Hopefully the qtruby upload that debfx did will make korundum buildable so I can do that.
<pitti> cjwatson: anythign I can help with there in ubuntu-defaults-image?
<cjwatson> ScottK: no, not quite, that's where I was starting from
<cjwatson> ScottK: but the thing that breaks is the include of kate_smoke.h - it's not testing for that properely
<cjwatson> so I wanted to know whether the obvious "check that and don't build the kate module" was right
<ScottK> Yes.  Please.
<cjwatson> pitti: u-d-i is OK I think, it's something wrong with the livecd-rootfs integration
<cjwatson> the log didn't have anything obvious
<pitti> next week I'll look at making the iso smaller, it currently comes out at 740 MB or so
<tjaalton> pitti: sorry, couldn't fix that xorg bug, spent too much time triaging unity ;) but next week
<pitti> tjaalton: oh, I just wondered if this is "triaged", or needs some further debugging/explanatino
<pitti> tjaalton: the half of it where it doesn't remove a non-empty directory isn't a bug, but there was some other half which did sound like a breakage; I just wondered why /etc/gdm is covered by the generic x11-common package
<pitti> have a nice weekend everyone!
<tjaalton> pitti: because failsafe-x used to install stuff there, and kubuntu system doesn't have gdm
<cjwatson> ScottK: does http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/korundum/revision/6 look plausible to you?
<cjwatson> oh, I should add DEP-3 headers
<cjwatson> (done)
<ScottK> cjwatson: Yes.
<cjwatson> ok, uploading, thansk
<cjwatson> *thanks
<ScottK> cjwatson: Accepted.
<bdmurray> Is there a patch piloting schedule so I can figure out who to wait for and pounce on?
<stgraber> bdmurray: IIRC there's a google calendar for that
<micahg> bdmurray: it's rodrigo and mdeslaur today, my guess would be both are done for the day
<bdmurray> :-(
<mdeslaur> bdmurray: I'm done, but do you want me to look at something?
<stgraber> bdmurray: Calendar ID: 6k1e5rq45m1bdqq0n1ge3oqaok@group.calendar.google.com
<stgraber> bdmurray: I'm also happy to sponsor
<bdmurray> Thanks - https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/ubuntu/oneiric/apport/ubiquity-dupe-sig/+merge/72989
<stgraber> looking
<bdmurray> I've detailed what this does in the merge proposal and I could provide more information about the testing I've done if somebody wants to test it.
<stgraber> bdmurray: is that something you'd like to have for beta1? (I'll upload anyway but you may want to poke -release if you want it in for beta1)
<bdmurray> stgraber: yes so we can get the duplicate signature in the bugs as people are testing
<bdmurray> stgraber: this allows the retracer to automatically duplicate bug reports
<stgraber> bdmurray: ok, I'll review, upload and mention it in -release then
<bdmurray> stgraber: great, thank you!
<apw> cjwatson, i tried to upload the oneiric-lbm you requested, but just noticed it got bounced as linux-backports-modules-3.0.0 is not on the kernel upload rights
<kees> how do I make network-manager not steal my resolv.conf ?
<infinity> kees: chattr +i? :P
<infinity> kees: (Or stop managing interfaces with NM...)
<nigelb> infinity: hehe, that's what I'd done.
<infinity> kees: I dunno.  I just use append/prepend/supersede in dhclient.conf to get a nice merge of "what the DHCP server told me" and "what I actually want".
<mdeslaur> kees: click on the options, and select "automatic dhcp, adresses only"
<infinity> kees: Which seems to me like the "correct" solution, cause you do kinda want to know what the DHCP server told you too, right?
<kees> well, see, the problem is I have none of my interfaces managed by network-manager, but it decides to wipe out resolv.conf anyway
<infinity> kees: Err, oh.  That's differently special.
<mdeslaur> kees: you wireless either?
<kees> this is on my desktop.
<mdeslaur> kees: what you need to do is have network manager manage ALL your interfaces...then it just works :)
<kees> or maybe there's some magic interface it thinks its managing? how do I get it to tell me which it's operating on?
<kees> mdeslaur: no, no, that's the opposite of what I want. :)
<mdeslaur> kees: that's cause you're doing it wrong :)
<mdeslaur> kees: does it have an auto interface listed in "wired connections"?
<kees> mdeslaur: it's not wrong -- it's a server as far as I'm concerned. :)
<mdeslaur> kees: why are you running network manager on a server?
<infinity> And why does a server have NM installed?
<mdeslaur> lol
<mdeslaur> attack of the trolls
<kees> this circular trolling isn't working
<infinity> We can try harder!
<kees> hehe
<infinity> But yeah, does NM list any interfaces in the drop-down UI?
<kees> okay, so, if I start nm, it wipes out my resolv.conf.
<mdeslaur> kees: seriously, do you have an auto interface in "Wired"?
<kees> mdeslaur: I don't have an applet because it's not running
<infinity> You're the best debugging buddy ever.
<kees> sudo chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf; sudo service network-manager start ...
<infinity> "My car's making weird noises, but I left it at home."
<mdeslaur> kees: either kill it completely, or don't kill it at all
<mdeslaur> kees: in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections, do you have any files?
<kees> nope
<kees> mdeslaur: okay, in the applet, "enable networking" is greyed out :)
<kees> well let me chattr -i again, just for fun
<kees> currently, the file is fine. nm loves to gas-light me
<kees> uhp, nope, there is goes. wiped the file.
<kees> mdeslaur: okay, I have no network connections listed in the "edit connections" dialog.
<mdeslaur> hmm
<kees> and yet it wiped out the file.
<mdeslaur> that's not very nice
<kees> agreeds
<mdeslaur> open a bug
<kees> will do.
<kees> in the meantime.... chattr +i :)
<lucidfox> YokoZar, any chance for a wine1.3 update in Oneiric?
<nigelb> 32-bit binaries should work fine on 64-bit machines, shouldn't they?
<lucidfox> if the required libraries are installed, yes
<nigelb> Mine just fails. Sigh.
<ion> and if the architecture supports 32-bit code.
<nigelb> x86_64
<nigelb> The longer fix is to just use 64-bit, but I'm puzzled by the failure.
<infinity> nigelb: How does it fail?
<nigelb> infinity: well, it just doesn't work. I tried with 64-bit binary and it worked. I canste the error if you'd like.
<infinity> An error tends to be more informative than "doesn't work". ;)
<nigelb> "-bash: ./check_disk: No such file or directory"
<slangasek> that would be the classic posix error value, ENOWORKIE
<infinity> But it's probably as lucidfox says, and you're missing some 32-bit userspace bits.
<slangasek> nigelb: you don't have the 32-bit ld.so.
<nigelb> ah.
<nigelb> how do I get them?
<slangasek> you need to install the libc6:i386 package (or on pre-oneiric, libc6-i386)
<nigelb> wait, this is lucid.
<infinity> Yeah, libc6-i386 on lucid.
<nigelb> ah.
<nigelb> I should have read, appologies.
<nigelb> hm, when did this locale error start showing up :|
<infinity> Perl complaining about your locales?
<nigelb> yeah
<infinity> That's entirely valid. :P
<nigelb> I need to note down somewhere how I fix it.
<infinity> The machine you're SSHed into doesn't have the locale generated that your client pushed.
<nigelb> so, its not a server thing, but just something a combination of that machine + client?
<infinity> (ie: if you are SSHing from a machine with en_US.UTF-8, it will helpfully push that to the remote machine, which doesn't have it built)
<nigelb> ah, I know what's wrong then.
<infinity> It's not a "problem" with either machine, per se, except that I consider remote locale poisoning a braindead feature.
<nigelb> I'm SSH-ing into a server from another server.
<infinity> But then again, I speak English.  I imagine others find the feature pretty handy.
<nigelb> Phew, I was afraid of another few hours of debugging.
<nigelb> I doubt my terminal has had to display anothing non-English.
<nigelb> well, except when I'm using irssi.
<mdeslaur> infinity: yeah, but you get weird spelling when the remote machine doesn't have en_CA
<infinity> But yeah, the messages are harmless, and only due to your LANG being set to a locale that the host doesn't have installed/built.
<infinity> Everything gracefully falls back to LANG=C in that case anyway.
<nigelb> "gracefully"?
<nigelb> :)
<infinity> Well, perl's verbose about it.
<infinity> But it still works!
<nigelb> except autocompletion throws me 3 lins of errors
<nigelb> ;)
<infinity> That's marginally more icky, yes.
<infinity> Fix your locales? :P
<nigelb> My usual fix is to do export LC_ALL="en_US.UTF8" in the .bashrc
<nigelb> is that a kosher enough fix? :)
<infinity> If only that was a valid locale...
<nigelb> oh.
<infinity> Plus, you probably want LANG, not LC_ALL.
<infinity> But more importantly, I'm assuming that server you're on doesn't have any locales generated.
<infinity> Which is pretty common.
<nigelb> what is the Right thing to doâ¢?
<nigelb> generate locales?
<infinity> If you want UTF all over and the same locale all over, just "sudo locale-gen en_US.UTF-8" on all your hosts.
<nigelb> localegen or some such?
<infinity> Or install a langpack.
<infinity> Which will do it for you.
<infinity> SSH will helpfully forward your LANG across connections, so if your local locale also exists on the target host, it all Just Works.
<nigelb> aha, thanks!
 * nigelb removes the .bashrc hack
<nigelb> infinity: I owe you a beer! :D
<cjwatson> apw: you should have linux-backports-modules-3.0.0 upload rights now
<jdstrand> apachelogger: hey, is there a bug associated with your kde-l10n-ug upload?
<jdstrand> apachelogger: actually, I had another question. sent via email
<jo-erlend> how do I report a security issue that causes you to gain access to a locked desktop by pressing a keyboard combination? I don't know what package to file against, and launchpad won't let me file bugs without associating with a package.
<ion> Report it against gnome-screensaver, the most probable culprit. If itâs not a gnome-screensaver issue, someone will change it.
<jo-erlend> oh, ok.
<bdmurray> Has anybody run into this issue when authenticating with Launchpad via launchpadlib?
<bdmurray> ERROR: connecting to Launchpad failed: unclosed token: line 38953, column 8
<bdmurray> Well okay the last thing I did that may have resolved it was rm * in ~/.launchpadlib/api.launchpad.net/cache
#ubuntu-devel 2011-08-27
<cjwatson> Laney: hm, shouldn't libghc-hdbc-sqlite3-dev depend on libsqlite3-dev?  Would you mind if I made that change as part of my quest to get hpodder to build?
<cjwatson> it has "extra-libraries: sqlite3" so it seems that it should have the dependency itself rather than making build-dependers do it
 * cjwatson notices mail to ubuntu-release - I might just go ahead with that then
<YokoZar> lucidfox: yeah for sure
<slangasek> zul: is there a FFe bug for glance explaining why this new upstream release should go in?
<zul> slangasek: its the new point release for the Ubuntu Cloud stuff no FFE yet
<apw> cjwatson, thanks for following up on those rights
<Laney> cjwatson: yeah, sure. I'd like it if you'd do it in Debian and sync though.
<Laney> ah, someone uploaded it already
<Laney> cjwatson: shall I NMU hpodder? Seems pretty clear what's needed to get it building again.
 * Laney does it
<lucidfox> cjwatson, just in case you missed it, easytag-aac has a separate removal request: bug #794701
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 794701 in easytag-aac (Ubuntu) "Remove easytag-aac from oneiric" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/794701
<lucidfox> once it's removed, mpeg4ip can be removed too
<cjwatson> Laney: excellent, thanks
<cjwatson> lucidfox: cheers, I'll process that when I next get a chance then
 * penguin42 notes playing both halves of a network game to test if you've broken it is hard!
<shbk> hello, I 've makefile.  it's whole: obj-m += hello.o
<shbk> all:
<shbk> make -C /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build M=$(PWD) modules  , when I do make, I receive:  "make: Nothing to be done for `all'."  I'm confused
<shbk> why make doesn't do nothing?
#ubuntu-devel 2011-08-28
<penguin42> c/join #python-gtk
<penguin42> bah foo
<penguin42> anyone have any idea why a window would show up on xwininfo with apparently sensible geometry but not be visible ?
<penguin42> ooh - it's not mapped....
<Rovanion> What package provides gbm.h?
<Rovanion> In fedora it's libgbm-devel I believe. What would be the corresponding package in Ubuntu?
<infinity> libgbm-dev
<Rovanion> No such package captain, sorry infinity. Or am I missing some repo?
<infinity> Rovanion: It's only in oneiric.
<infinity> (I assume it's reasonably new...)
<Rovanion> Ouch that introduces a whole new level of pain into my ventures. I can add the oneric repo to my apt-sources and only pull one package right?
<infinity> In that case, probably not.  I'm guessing it's tied fairly closely to various mesa/drm deps.
<infinity> But maybe not.
<infinity> Actually, you might be in luck.
<Rovanion> I'm pulling mesa from git to try and bulid wayland. It's wierd that I passed right trough autogen.sh but my compilation failed missing gbm.h
<infinity> libgbm-dev and libgbm1 might install on some older releases without much pain.
<infinity> If you're building mesa git, you should probably be building libgbm from mesa...
<infinity> (That's where it's from, after all, it builds from our mesa source packages)
<Rovanion> Do you know in which git repo holds libgbm infinity? My googling only finds changelogs for different distro packages.
<infinity> I would assume it's from mesa itself, given that it lands in the mesa dist tarballs, but I'm not much of an X/mesa guy, so not sure.
<Rovanion> How odd that I error out when trying to bulid mesa then..
<infinity> Looks like it ships with mesa 7.11 and up.
<infinity> But maybe it's a git submodule or something and maintainer seperately upstream.
<Rovanion> Is there any special ubuntu channel for mesa/xorg that I can turn to?
<micahg> Rovanion: #ubuntu-x
<micahg> is it ok to mix pkg-config and cmake?
<RAOF> micahg: They're different things?  You can use pkg-config with cmake; compiz & unity do.
<micahg> RAOF: yes indeed, but I didn't know if there was some type of cmake gateway, I'll take a look a compiz, thanks
#ubuntu-devel 2012-08-20
<rsalveti> tjaalton: are you also going to update the weston package for quantal before ff?
<rsalveti> saw you updated it already at the git debian tree
<pitti> Good morning
<infinity> pitti: Hey, you're a big fan of testsuites, right?
<pitti> indeed I am!
<infinity> pitti: And possibly glib?
<pitti> yes, some weeks ago I worked on that to make all of them succeed -- sometimes
<infinity> pitti: I'm trying to decide if the failing glib test on armel is an actual bug, or just the test not allowing enough slack.
<infinity>       /* elapsed_msec should be 4000 msec +/- change for overhead/inaccuracy */
<infinity>       g_assert_cmpint (elapsed_msec, >=, 3950);
<infinity>       g_assert_cmpint (elapsed_msec,  <, 6000);
<infinity> ^-- armel is asserting with elapsed_msec = 7365
<pitti> I suppose the latter, but I haven't looked at any ubuntu stuff for the last two weeks; I can put it onto my TODO
<pitti> it succeeded on my panda board, but it's a race condition
<pitti> if it's urgent to get it built, a retry is fine
<infinity> pitti: Sure.  I was going to "fix" it by just letting the test be sloppier, but I don't want to be covering an actual bug, and I don't particularly know the code.
 * pitti has a quick look
<infinity> pitti: Initially, I thought it was just a timeout deal, but reading the test makes it seem like they really are expecting a vaguely specificl ballpark value.
<infinity> pitti: It's also a 2.5h build up to that point, so "retry until it sticks" seems like a suboptimal solution, if the test really does vary enough to sometimes get it right.
<pitti> infinity: I read the test now; I agree, bumping it to 8000 or so sounds fine
<infinity> pitti: Alright, will do.  Unless you want TILM on it (or have the power to commit it to Debian, which might be nice).
<pitti> for 240 d-bus calls, and sleeping 100 msec 40 times, 8000 or even 10000 sounds appropriate
<pitti> infinity: yes, I do have; we try to stay in sync with Debian
<pitti> infinity: I can also commit the last patch revert there, and we can sync again
<infinity> pitti: Okay, then I'll let you fix it in experimental and keep my hands off.
<pitti> I'll also report it upstream, should be no problem to bump the timeout there
<infinity> Cheers.
<pitti> thanks for pointing out
<pitti> infinity: debian exp svn now has the patch for this, and Laney's recent quantal-proposed upload as well; I'm running through Debian's test failures and see what else to change, then do the uploads
<tjaalton> rsalveti: yes, but it needs a newer mesa which has to be finished first
<rsalveti> tjaalton: oh, ok
<tjaalton> rsalveti: before FF for sure
<rsalveti> great, thanks
<infinity> pitti, Laney: Danke.
<infinity> pitti: Here's hoping 8s is enough for most cases.
<dholbach> good morning
<pitti> hey dholbach, wie gehts?
 * pitti mehs at the numerous LP timeouts in bugs
<dholbach> pitti, ganz ok, und dir?
<pitti> dholbach: very well, thanks! I enjoyed my holidays a lot
<infinity> pitti: Meh, of course there appear to be other test failures too. :/
<pitti> infinity: yeah, I saw; I'll deal with this one, it also affects the Debian experimental buildds
<pitti> meh, what happened to LP that it keeps timing out for just about any operation on a bug?
<infinity> pitti: I suspect there's still some ongoing sketchiness with the combination of DC move and service migrations over the weekend.
<pitti> oh right, that
<infinity> pitti: Oh, except that you're talking bug management, that's been broken for longer.
<infinity> Though, perhaps more broken today than previously.
<pitti> MPs as well
<infinity> There's just sadness all over right now, but it might be worth popping your head into #lanchpad-ops (internally) and see if your specific issues are known.
<infinity> Spelled correctly, of course.
<pitti> infinity: glib upload, take three
<wgrant> LP is having some trouble from the DC move and kernel bugs and such atm, we're working on it
<Laney> Oh, good work!
<Daviey> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Quantal Quetzal development | Archive: Open (DIF) | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/  | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: Daviey
 * dholbach hugs Daviey
<Daviey> dholbach: Hey!
<Daviey> dholbach: I have expired from ~ubuntu-sponsors, would you mind re-adding me please?
<dholbach> done
<Daviey> ta!
 * cjwatson resurrects merges.u.c post-DC-move
<Daviey> infinity / slangasek: Hey, you've both added thoughts to bug 809221.  I'm reluctant to sponsor it, until you are both satisfied.. can you comment please? ta
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 809221 in mountall (Ubuntu) "unable to mount ceph root at boot due to stripping of trailing slashes" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/809221
<pitti> seb128: are you fine with teh change proposed in bug 1033932?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1033932 in apport (Ubuntu) "Error alerts appear on login for problems in previous session" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033932
<pitti> seb128: I think these old crashes are fairly irrelevant (would sort out the "crashes during logout" case)
<pitti> and ev ^
 * pitti lunch, bbl
<seb128> pitti, just back from lunch, looking
<seb128> pitti, enjoy your lunch ;-)
<seb128> pitti, that works for me!
<Sweetsha1k> \o\ /o/ \o/ installing mysql-server from a StarBasic macro works.
<seb128> Sweetsha1k, nice!
<ev> pitti: if we're going to show multiple reports in a single dialog, why discard these at all? We could just do what Matthew suggests and send them all at the same time.
<seb128> ev, because there is still no reason to greet users at login with whoopsie dialogs which turn out to be shutdown issues from the previous session
<ev> seb128: it's not whoopsie, it's apport. Whoopsie is the daemon that shovels ready to be uploaded crash reports to daisy.ubuntu.com. As Matthew says in the report, it's about sending them the next time we have a report that deserves explanation.
<ev> so it wouldn't necessarily be at login
<ev> it would be the next time an application crashed
<ev> they'd be bundled together and sent
<seb128> I guess that would work yes
<ev> excellent
<xnox> kees: Asked a review on the lvm2 merge proposal. It looks to me as if the wrong init script (clvm instead of lvm2) was dropped some time in the past. Unless that was intended?  https://code.launchpad.net/~dmitrij.ledkov/ubuntu/quantal/lvm2/merge95/+merge/119696
<ev> mpt: remind me what the multiple reports dialog looks like when there's an error processing a report? I vaguely recall the report body being replaced with a one-line message, but I'm struggling to remember what that is
<mpt> ev, "If no details are available (for example, the crash file is unreadable), below the process name should appear the paragraph âNo details were recorded for this error.â"
<ev> ah yes, thanks
<ev> ah, I was looking in the wrong section for that
<pitti> re
<pitti> ev: that sounds a bit strange, though; "gedit crashed, and btw, these other 5 crashed last time"?
<ev> pitti: I'm not sure what the UI would look like. That's more mpt's domain than my own.
<pitti> mpt: I don't understand "reporting crashes from the previous session the next time we have a report that deserves explanation"
<pitti> mpt: that sounds like "gedit crashed, and btw, these other 5 crashed last time"
<pitti> mpt: and isn't going to make things any easier
<pitti> mpt: or do you mean showing the 5 old ones after a new crash happens in the current session, but in a separate window?
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: mm .. if you're around could you ping me ;)
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: just say what you want
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: a couple of questions concerning live build, that is all
<shadeslayer> for starters, do you populate the preseed folder manually?
<shadeslayer> ( by putting the .seed files in config/preseed )
<cjwatson> By "manually", do you mean in the livecd-rootfs scripts?  We don't do anything *actually* manually
<cjwatson> But you can look at livecd-rootfs for yourself, and see that we don't
<shadeslayer> well .. I did, and there was nothing about preseeds
<cjwatson> Our debian-cd installation puts preseed files in /preseed/ on the ISO9660 filesystem
<shadeslayer> alright, that qualifies as manually since it's *not* done by livecd-rootfs
<shadeslayer> how do you generate the .seed files?
<cjwatson> They're hand-written
<shadeslayer> that's what I thought as wel :P
<shadeslayer> *well
<shadeslayer> for some reason my iso only has a isolinux and squashfs folder, and does not boot
<shadeslayer> ( KVM says error code 0003, and there seems to be no indication of how to fix this issue on the net )
<cjwatson> isohybrid: binary-hybrid.iso: boot loader does not have an isolinux.bin hybrid signature. Note that isolinux-debug.bin does not support hybrid booting
<shadeslayer> right
<cjwatson> You're seeing the same thing that our Chinese edition amd64 images keep complaining about
<shadeslayer> ouch
<cjwatson> I haven't had time to figure out what's going on there
<shadeslayer> if you can give me pointers, I can give it a try
<cjwatson> Not without doing equivalent work to investigate the whole thing from scratch :)
<cjwatson> You'll have to dig into live-build
<shadeslayer> ( Note that I'm building the ISO in a quantal chroot, just like you advised, and I still get that )
<cjwatson> Yeah, this is evidently a bug in quantal's live-build, but I don't know what it is, sorry
<shadeslayer> I was looking at lb_binary_syslinux and nothing obvious jumped at me :P
<shadeslayer> alright
<shadeslayer> how come the official images don't see this ? :P
<cjwatson> Because they don't use ISO generation in live-build
<cjwatson> They only have live-build spit out a squashfs and then deal with ISO9660 assembly separately
<shadeslayer> ah ok
<shadeslayer> oh, what's the ubuntu symlink for?
<shadeslayer> it's /ubuntu linked to ./
<cjwatson> Occasionally apt clients and the like want to access the archive via an /ubuntu base path
<cjwatson> It just saves having to bother tracking down weird bugs
<shadeslayer> heh :P
<cjwatson> Oh, and I think some bits of software use it as a cue that this is a CD with a package pool on it
<shadeslayer> oh .. that's interesting ..
<cjwatson> It's one of those things that may or may not actually be needed any more, but it isn't a good use of time to remove it and see what breaks because it doesn't cause any problems
<shadeslayer> is /install supposed to be generated by lb as well?
<shadeslayer> ofcourse
<cjwatson> /install is basically entirely informational so who cares
<cjwatson> Well, there's mt86plus I guess
<cjwatson> Our debian-cd installation puts that in place
<shadeslayer> alright, /boot as well I presume?
<cjwatson> live-build does memtest a bit differently, see lb_binary_memtest
<shadeslayer> ( a bit confused as to why there's a grub config file there tbh )
<shadeslayer> will do
<cjwatson> EFI
<shadeslayer> won't work :P
<shadeslayer> afaik EFI only detects /efi/boot/
<cjwatson> why not?  (don't confuse Mac support with EFI in general)
<shadeslayer> oh
<shadeslayer> ok
<cjwatson> and this is only part of the EFI support, it's not all of it
<shadeslayer> right
<cjwatson> You may note that there is an /efi/boot/ directory too
<shadeslayer> I was under the assumption that all EFI implementations look for /efi/boot
<shadeslayer> yus
<cjwatson> They do
<cjwatson> But the image we put there gets its configuration from /boot/grub/
<cjwatson> This makes it easier to put configuration in place at the CD-build level without having to rebuild the EFI image
<shadeslayer> ah ok
<shadeslayer> and what about /pics ?
<cjwatson> Please grep the debian-cd source rather than asking about each one ...
<cjwatson> lp:~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu
<cjwatson> I don't want to explain every file on the image serially over IRC :)
<shadeslayer> actually, that' was the last one, but sure ;)
<cjwatson> Anyway none of this relates to your boot failure
<shadeslayer> ofcourse
<shadeslayer> I'm just curious as to what these are
<cjwatson> May not even be used, I don't remember
 * shadeslayer will take a look
<shadeslayer> did you see my ping about the fedora live CD not booting?
<shadeslayer> to be precise, it boots, but X doesn't start
<shadeslayer> nor can I get to a tty
<cjwatson> I don't care about that :-)
<cjwatson> I'm certainly not going to debug Fedora kernel/userspace
<cjwatson> I was only interested in the boot menu level
<shadeslayer> haha :D
<shadeslayer> ah yes, that does show up
<cjwatson> I'll need to sit and stare at hexdumps of partition tables and the like to figure out why my test image doesn't do the same
<shadeslayer> sounds like fun :P
<cjwatson> I expect it to be a big bag of no fun, but that's booting for you
<mpt> pitti, I mean adding secondary text to the normal "The application Text Editor has closed unexpectedly" alert, something like "If you send an error report, previous problems will be reported too."
<pitti> mpt: how do you show the details of the other reports then?
<pitti> should they pop up after the current one?
<mpt> pitti, in the details pane, same as for the "Multiple applications have closed unexpectedly" one.
<pitti> ah, I haven't seen that design yet
<mpt> pitti, it was just an idea thrown into the bug report, I haven't sketched it or anything
<pitti> mpt: anyway, this doesn't sound SRUable to me -- it's a major UI change/addition
<ev> pitti: the expanded details UI for multiple applications closing is the same as before, only the multiple reports are separated by an hseparator in the treeview
<pitti> mpt: for precise, my gut feeling is that we should SRU a fix as you suggested in bug 1033932 without showing the old ones
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1033932 in apport (Ubuntu) "Error alerts appear on login for problems in previous session" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033932
<mpt> pitti, suits me.
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: thanks once again :)
<cjwatson> stgraber: It just occurred to me that I promised at UDS to turn biosdevname on by default in the installer for 12.10, and haven't yet done so
<cjwatson> stgraber: So I think I'm going to make that change today, unless you scream ...
<slangasek> Daviey: well, I was commenting on the general principle there but haven't read the code; not sure infinity saw my response so I guess it's up to him to comment now.  BTW, if you do sponsor it please note that mountall is now in sync in Debian, so unlike in the past the package now /should/ have a ubuntuX version number :)
<stgraber> cjwatson: I'm not exactly sure that all the bits have been updated to deal with biosdevname, but I guess better do it now and have the rest of the cycle to fix these than have to do it at the last minute because of external pressure...
<Daviey> cjwatson: i'd be interested in feedback from pushing biosdevname on by default.
<cjwatson> Exactly.  I know we've fixed a number of such bugs
<Daviey> slangasek: hah, well.. maybe i should just leave it on infinity.
<slangasek> fine by me :)
<smoser> cjwatson, i was looking at bug 1035279, and that lead me to https://code.launchpad.net/~utlemming/ubuntu/quantal/grub2/param-recordfail-timeout/+merge/107243
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1035279 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "interactive access to instance lost after reboot followed by euca-reboot-instances" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035279
<smoser> i'd like to call utlemmings change there a fix for bug 872244 and subsequently mark that bug as fix-released.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 872244 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub2 recordfail logic prevents headless system from rebooting after power outage" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872244
<smoser> the end goal is to get the GRUB_RECORDFAIL_TIMEOUT setting back to precise.
<smoser> but i can open a new bug if you'd like.
<cjwatson> smoser: While I don't think I have time to handle the SRU, if you want to do the obvious backport of that patch then I'm totally fine with that
<smoser> cjwatson, i'm not asking you to do the SRU. we'll handle that. just that you'd be ok with it. and also with marking bug 872244 as "fix-released" based on that change.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 872244 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub2 recordfail logic prevents headless system from rebooting after power outage" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872244
<cjwatson> I mean, of the patch that I actually landed in quantal, which isn't quite the same as Ben's original
<cjwatson> Well, it's kind of a sucky fix because it requires configuration to DTRT, but there's no way to avoid *that* without conflicting with a design requirement
<cjwatson> So it's probably the best you can do
<slangasek> pitti: hi, welcome back :)
<smoser> cjwatson, great. thanks.
<caribou> cjwatson: I'm working with smoser on this : I'll use the commit from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/quantal/grub2/quantal
<caribou> cjwatson: I think this is the one you're talking about (as opposed to Ben's original)
<slangasek> pitti: I've reopened bug #734376 that you closed a while ago, because this is still showing up in the crashdb - it seems additional filtering is needed to make this not be a nuisance for users.  could you offer a pointer on where to start looking?
<cjwatson> caribou: Yes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 734376 in jockey (Ubuntu) "jockey-gtk crashed with DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply in shutdown()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/734376
<caribou> cjwatson: ok, fine
<cjwatson> caribou: It was just a bit simpler really - no point in adding a new patch to the stack for this
<smoser> caribou, cjwatson ok. i'm not going to touch 872244 as bug 669481 was the bug that was actually already used. we'll just use that.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 669481 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Timeout should not be -1 if $recordfail" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/669481
<cjwatson> OK
<smoser> (i had missed that it was there)
<silverarrow> how are 12.10 comming along?
<pitti> slangasek: hello; thanks!
<pitti> slangasek: ah, that'd be an apport bug then; adjusting
<SpamapS> silverarrow: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ ... looks like we're a bit behind schedule. But that always happens right before freezes (big pushes for big features will land rapidly)
<pitti> slangasek: followed up
<silverarrow> I see
<silverarrow> I was wondering about installing the test version for ppc
<ev> pitti, mpt: hi
<ev> so the discussion is whether or not we should implement the multiple error reports in a single dialog: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#When_there_are_multiple_simultaneous_errors
<ev> pitti: apologies for paraphrasing, and please do correct. Martin mentioned that he believes that two crashes happening in close proximity is rare when you factor out crashes at logout. He also suggested that the design offers no way to selectively report problems
<ev> that is, to find a report you don't want to send and remove it from the list of ones that you do
<mpt> pitti, so the motivation is to bring sanity to situations like <http://imgur.com/zR6II>. But I have no data on how often that happens.
<pitti> (sorry for lagging; talking to multiple people and having a G+ meeting in 5 mins)
<ev> I think that two crashes happening in close proximity is something we should optimize against no matter what the frequency, as always having one dialog increases our chances of "yes" responses.
<ev> The frequency of the dialogs was something raised by seb128. I don't know how much of an effect factoring out logout crashes will have, but I'd like to do everything we can to bring it down to a single dialog.
<ev> And indeed, if we do this then we don't have to discard heuristically determined logout crashes
<pitti> I don't think we need to optimize for "two apps crash at the same time"
<pitti> that seems like a small corner case to me, and really not worth making the UI a lot harder to use IMHO
<pitti> it's just about the initial batch of "these programs crashed during logout of your previous session"
<mpt> pitti, what do you mean by "making the UI a lot harder to use", specifically?
<pitti> which is already covered by bug 1033932
<mpt> Just choosing which reports to send and which not to?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1033932 in apport (Ubuntu) "Error alerts appear on login for problems in previous session" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033932
<pitti> i. e. not show them at all
<ev> (alpols, ellen shut down her laptop while upgrading - tending to that quickly)
<pitti> mpt: the details for one crash are already long enough as they are; adding several of them together makes it very hard to find the start of the next one, as well as selecting which ones you want to send
<pitti> it's like thinking about 3 unrelated things at the same time
<mpt> ok
<ogra_> humans can handle up to seven, dont they ?
<ogra_> :P
<jdstrand> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Quantal Quetzal development | Archive: Open (DIF) | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/  | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: jdstrand, Daviey
<mpt> pitti, we could make it a proper tree with collapsed-by-default child items each with their own checkbox
<mpt> That's independent from whether the multiple-apps alert is worth doing, because that would still be useful for the multiple-system-errors alert
<slangasek> pitti: thanks much :)
<pitti> mpt: reports from different users (system vs. user) would still appear separately
<mpt> pitti, yep.
<pitti> so, it seems to me that it is a rather large code and UI complication/change for little benefit, but if ev wants to work on it, I won't stop him of course :)
<pitti> it's changing all three GUIs for that, too, as well as many of the test cases
<mpt> All three?
<seb128> bah, NBS is empty again
 * seb128 removes cache
<pitti> mpt: well, if we change the whole logic of the UI, we don't want to break the KDE and CLI one
<mpt> oh, right
<cjwatson> All three UIs, not all three GUIs :-)
<ev> (still working, but we don't have to modify the KDE or CLI UI)
<seb128> hum, no cache to remove
<pitti> ev: no changes to apport/ui.py ?
<seb128> cjwatson, did you beat me at trying to fix the NBS report? ;-)
<ev> pitti: we still need the existing one crash UI, which then gets upgraded to multiple reports
<ev> so the KDE and CLI UIs just don't get upgraded
<ev> upgraded> the one crash UI changes to the multiple crash UI when multiple reports come in
<cjwatson> seb128: Yeah, just
<seb128> cjwatson, ok, thanks
<cjwatson> But you beat me to saying so
<seb128> hehe
<cjwatson> So I figured it didn't matter :-)
<seb128> as long as it's fixed I'm happy :-)
<Laney> you should cron that rm ;-)
<seb128> is there any way to turn off launchpadlib caching for a script?
<cjwatson> You can nominate a different cache, but the problem is that there are multiple scripts involved here and it gets cumbersome
<cjwatson> I deliberately haven't bothered because the right fix is to get this lazr.restfulclient fix in
<cjwatson> I did it for sru-report because there was only one script there so it was easy
<mpt> bdmurray, cjwatson, hi, any progress on the grub configuration data?
 * xnox cause cmake is not build on i386 yet, packages that build deps on cmake ftbfs.... *argh*
<ev> someday we'll make suspending your laptop during upgrade not eat your installation
<ev> (I'm not counting break=top; â¦; sudo chroot /root dpkg --configure -a as a viable solution)
<slangasek> ev: er, what do you mean by "suspend"?
<slangasek> because suspending shouldn't require anything of the sort to recover
<tedg> slangasek, Hey, so I'm looking at pamtester, but it's seemingly not in Debian.  Is that possible?  (I mean, OSS code that isn't in Debian)  http://pamtester.sourceforge.net/
<slangasek> tedg: sure, that happens from time to time :)
<ev> slangasek: sorry, powering off
<tedg> slangasek, It's old, but it seems to work.  I unsuccessfully tried to get the pam-krb5 test suite out of it's tree.
<ev> slangasek: ellen unplugged her 11.10 laptop from a projector, which hit some bug that leaves the laptop screen blank
<ev> her only recourse in that situation is to hold down the power button
<ev> but she was upgrading in the background
<ev> (ellen arnold, this is)
<tedg> ev, So you're saying we should disable upgrading while presenting on a projector?  ;-)
<slangasek> ev: and is there a reason that the recovery mode boot option didn't work?
<ev> slangasek: well for one it's not something she was able to find on her own, and indeed it did not
<ev> the boot process just hung part way through
<slangasek> hmm
<ev> tedg, slangasek: I'm saying we should stick dpkg --configure -a in early boot
<slangasek> because those boot menu options aren't supposed to be updated until we actually have viable initramfs
<slangasek> er, yuck
<ev> and if that's too slow, find a way to detect that dpkg's brain is mush
<ev> but we shouldn't be solving this with choose your own misadventure dialogs
<slangasek> if boot hung partway through, dpkg's brain being mush is probably not the root problem
<tedg> ev, Eh, I think the real solution is to get btrfs in good enough shape we can use that, and then apt-snapshot with fallback.
<ev> slangasek: seems to be the case here
<ev> tedg: btrfs is built on unicorns and rainbows
<ev> it's just not gonna happen
<tedg> ev, Both of which make it better.
<xnox> tedg: it also gives ponies =)
 * tedg likes ponies too
<infinity> Daviey: I was hoping for the drive-by patch submitter to justify the (in)consistency of his patch logic, but that never happened.  I'll have a look at it all and sponsor something that feels sane to me later.
<infinity> Daviey: Well, "sponsor"... It'll not be the submitter's patch.
<slangasek> infinity: did you see my response?
<slangasek> explaining why we want different behavior for a trailing slash vs. only-a-slash?
<infinity> slangasek: I did, yeah.  Though, that's an odd definition of the word "normalise". ;)
<Daviey> infinity: well, it's in someones hands.. which is good enough for me :)
<slangasek> infinity: it's a perfectly usual normalization of paths
<infinity> slangasek: The second bit, perhaps, the first bit of the conditional is still a bit weird ("/" -> "")
<cjwatson> mpt: no, sorry, too many plates ...
<cjwatson> ev: I would go further than slangasek and say that if recovery mode doesn't work it's highly debatable whether running dpkg --configure -a is even safe
<cjwatson> ev: For example necessary filesystems might not be mounted
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: FWIW I'm working on the live-build merge now
<shadeslayer> \o/
<shadeslayer> I could upload my merge somewhere if you want
<cjwatson> No thanks
<shadeslayer> right, thought so :P
<cjwatson> I'm too far along, it'd be confusing now :)
<cjwatson> where merge => "reapply all patches one by one from scratch, and redesign the interface with livecd-rootfs along the way since live-build upstream doesn't believe in stable interfaces"
<shadeslayer> yeah, you probably have a better idea of what you're doing
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: fwiw livecd-rootfs will have to be changed as well
<shadeslayer> they changed foo.list to list.foo
<shadeslayer> ( for 3rd party archives and the likes )
<cjwatson> Yeah, I think that's what I said :)
<cjwatson> There's a bunch of interface changes
<shadeslayer> hah, yes, a bit distracted by some other things atm
<shadeslayer> yeah
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: any chance the merge will also fix the boot issues?
<cjwatson> I have no idea
<shadeslayer> alright
<mpt> tedg, ev, xnox: Since you asked. http://i.imgur.com/IaxrL.png
<tedg> mpt, Beautiful, and functions!
<tedg> functional
<xnox> mpt: it even has kitty! =)
<ev> mpt: that's so becoming my wallpaper
<ogra_> telly me if you print t-shirts too ... i'll take one
<silverarrow> how do you go about retieving a log on what goes wrong with mplayer and gecko on ppc?
<silverarrow> I have been at this for days now
<silverarrow> getting now where
<silverarrow> any thoughts or ideas?
<ogra_> silverarrow, ~/.xsession-errors
<silverarrow> so far I have started firefox from terminal, and get some info there
<silverarrow> oh, from terminal just like that?
<silverarrow> or file manager?
<ogra_> however you like, that file usually logs apps that run in your x sessiom
<ogra_> *session
<silverarrow> permisson denied?
<silverarrow> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1157449/
<mitya57> silverarrow: less ~/.xsession-errors
<mitya57> silverarrow: it's a text file, not a script :)
<silverarrow> I don`t understand less?
<silverarrow> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1157463/
<xnox> silverarrow: it's a text file you can open it in gedit, kate, openoffice, nano...
<ev> bryceh, or anyone that knows X: around?
<bryceh> ev, yeah
<ev> I've got a weird one. The xorg log just says "xinit: connection to X server lost" no further details
<ev> no EE lines or anything
<ev> it's Intel
<ev> not sure where to even begin to remedy this
<bryceh> ev, reproducible?
<ev> setting the driver to fbdev by copying the failsafe config to xorg.conf doesn't help
<ev> bryceh: very
<ev> it's an upgrade from 11.10 to 12.04
<bryceh> anything in dmesg?
<bryceh> also check lightdm logs
<ev> nothing in dmesg...
<ev> and just ddxSigGiveUp in x-0.log
<bryceh> ev, hmm that just means normal exit
<ev> yeah it does say it exited 0 there
<ev> hm, so xinit works
<ev> what on earth is going on here
<bryceh> ev, from what you've described it *sounds* like X is working normally
<bryceh> just that it's being terminated early
<ev> so now if I run start X and switch back to the VT
<silverarrow> xnox: sorry for being this slow, but from where in file manager do I open the text file?
<ev> I get "No protocol specified" over and over again
<xnox> silverarrow: support is in #ubuntu channel. They can help you. The is channel for developers, developing ubuntu.
<bryceh> anything in your .xsession-errors?
<silverarrow> no they can`t
<ev> bryceh: settings schema 'org.gnome.desktop.interface' is not installed
<silverarrow> xnox, if they could I would not have been sent here
<silverarrow> but if you don`t have time, I shall have to come back another time
<silverarrow> it`s all right though,
<bryceh> ev, tried booting into a different window manager, like gnome fallback?
<ev> bryceh: nothing else in there other than noise from me doing startx
<ev> bryceh: mm, how would I drive that?
<bryceh> ev, actually, let me ask - are you seeing the login screen at all,or is it failing prior to that?
<xnox> silverarrow: can you please open terminal, type "ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg" without quotes, press enter.
<bryceh> ev, if you can see the login screen, then install gnome-session-fallback and then select it from the login screen
<xnox> silverarrow: this should collect information and upload it to launchpad and create a bug
<xnox> silverarrow: describe what's wrong, and post the bug number here.
<ev> bryceh: no login screen at all
<bryceh> ev, right, well then it's not the window manager.
<bryceh> ev, a mystery with no clues!
<bryceh> ev, any chance something errored during the upgrade?
<bryceh> e.g. any incorrect versions installed?  leftover ppas or the like?
<bryceh> xnox, btw when directing people to file bugs against X, unless you know for certain the issue is the xserver you should have them file "ubuntu-bug xorg".  It'll get reviewed and re-filed from there.
<bryceh> xnox, however silverarrow's issue is unlikely to be an X bug.
<bryceh> but hard to say with ppc
<xnox> bryceh: thanks. noted. I was searching which package to use and it was the best "generic" yet with apport-hooks package I managed to come up with.
<ev> bryceh: yes, sorry for not giving you sufficient background
<ev> so this whole thing started when ellen had to press the power button part way through an upgrade
<barry> bryceh: while you're thinking about xorg problems ;)  can you take a quick look at bug 1039097 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039097 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "super tiny font and incorrect background" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039097
<ev> apparently there was a bug in 11.10 where if you were connected to a projector and disconnected, you lost the screen on the laptop
<ev> so her only recourse was to hold the power button down
<ev> so maybe something is corrupt?
<bryceh> xnox, and actually I'm not sure any of the apport hooks will attach the xsession-errors file since that one can contain some private info.
<bryceh> ev, aha
<bryceh> ev, yeah power cycling in the midst of an upgrade can leave your system in an inconsistent state
<ev> bryceh: indeed, I had to rescue it with a usb disk
<ev> and a few dpkg --configure -a's
<bryceh> ev, and not likely worth your time to troubleshoot the bug...  if I were you I'd just backup everything and do a fresh install at this point, but I'm no apt guru...
<ev> bryceh: yeah, indeed
<ev> bryceh: thanks!
<bryceh> ev, fwiw from what you described it *sounds* like X is working, my guess is it's something slightly higher or lower in the stack that's breaking and making X terminate early.
<bryceh> ev, but could also be something silly like the wrong DDX driver version installed, causing an ABI break or something.
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: Into the tedious bit - doing comparison testing to make sure all the differences in output between old and new live-build+livecd-rootfs are reasonable
<shadeslayer> yay :)
<ev> bryceh: okay
<stgraber> I'm being less and less convinced that letting users use their system during a dist-upgrade is a good idea... I guess shutting down everything and using plymouth as a frontend to the upgrader would give us much more reliable upgrades
<bryceh> barry, sure, although I have a meeting with intel in a bit so only have a few minutes to look
<stgraber> especially in the LTS-to-LTS upgrade cases
<barry> bryceh: np, and thanks.
<ev> cjwatson: fair point (Sorry for the late reply)
<bryceh> barry, yeah could be from the X transition.  Small fonts issues often are DPI issues
<bryceh> barry, there's a GUI dialog where you can manually fiddle with the DPI
<barry> bryceh: assuming i can get logged in ;)
<bryceh> barry, you might also ask tjaalton if there are known issues with vmware with the new stack.  I'm not aware of any, but it's possible a driver needs updated or something
<barry> bryceh: cool, thanks. i'll do that, though i want to get some lunch first
<bryceh> barry, also I'd suggest refiling the bug against xorg; it's unlikely to be lightdm's fault here, plus filing against xorg would gather a lot more logs.
<bryceh> if you can ssh into the system while it's in this state and file the bug from the command line, that'd give the maximal info
<bryceh> barry, anyway, gotta run ttyl.
<silverarrow> I have filed a bug on this really
<silverarrow> xnox: , but as an issue with the gnome mplayer gecko media player setup, problem being with play in browser
<silverarrow> I think it is something up with gecko
<silverarrow> regardless of the error messages, gnome mplayer seems to work on its own
<silverarrow> even the test page
<ogra_> dpkg-source: info: using source format `3.0 (quilt)'
<ogra_> dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<ogra_> when was that changed to an error ?
<ogra_> (and is there any doc about how to override it... sponsoring uploads for linaro people gets hard through it )
<slangasek> infinity: ("/" -> "") -- that's the exact opposite of what's intended, I think?
<silverarrow> the issu is common for all powerpc
<infinity> slangasek: If you read the patch, it leaves :/ alone, but turns / into an empty string.  I'm not sure what the point of that bit is.  I can concede that the other conditional (that strips slashes from long paths) makes some sense.
<silverarrow> I think it might be related to the problem with flash video replacer in firefox, it does not work with browser embedded play, only as stand alone
<slangasek> infinity: ah, ok - then I'm sure the latter is a bug
<barry> bryceh: thanks.  i've filed bug 1039157 with updates to the problem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039157 in xorg (Ubuntu) "X problems in Fusion guest" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039157
<Logan_> barry: see my reply
<barry> Logan_: thanks, will paste output...
<Logan_> barry: if you get LLVMpipe, then it's a dupe of that bug
<Logan_> I'm experiencing the same thing in VBox
<barry> Logan_: i get no output
<barry> Logan_: iow, the grep doesn't match
<Logan_> oh
<Logan_> hmm
<slangasek> tjaalton: ah, I see you've fixed the libglsl issue now, great :)  does the Ubuntu mesa branch build now?
<arges> micahg, hello. I noticed that https://bugs.launchpad.net/lucid-backports/+bug/1035365 shows you've uploaded this package to source NEW? Is there a link that tracks where this package is?  thanks!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1035365 in lucid-backports "Please backport libhugetlbfs 2.11-0ubuntu1 (universe) from natty" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<Laney> arges: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+queue
<micahg> arges: ah, sorry, I meant to sit down with an AA about that
<arges> Laney, thanks, bookmarked that
<arges> micahg, no problem
<Laney> micahg: sit down about what?
<micahg> Laney: what review needs to be done for source NEW and binary NEW in backports
<tjaalton> slangasek: no there are still some missing bits due to the automake'ification, but getting closer
<slangasek> ok
<tjaalton> patched osmesa to build, now need to fix the dh_install phase. also, libgallium.so patch needs to be reworked, but hoping RAOF has time to have a look
<cjwatson> ogra_: hoary or breezy or so, but only if your DEBEMAIL is @ubuntu.com or @canonical.com
<Laney> just ubuntu.com
<cjwatson> ogra_: actually a bit more recently than I thought.  dpkg 1.13.24ubuntu4 in feisty.
<cjwatson> still fairly ancient history by now :-)
<jdstrand> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Quantal Quetzal development | Archive: Open (DIF) | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/  | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: Daviey
<barry> kenvandine: com.Gwibber.Messages has a Message() method that takes two strings, but no-ops.  is this used anywhere and can I remove it?  i'm inclined to keep it for backward compatibility (i.e. it's part of the dbus service api), but it looks like it's not used, or at least useless ;)
<kenvandine> barry, i think that might be used to emit a signal
<kenvandine> for new a new message
<barry> kenvandine: it's entire body is 'pass' ;)
<kenvandine> ok, might not be used then :)
<barry> :)
<barry> kenvandine: i can keep it with a big XXX and then some day remove it in a cleaning pass
<kenvandine> yes please
<barry> cool, thanks
<bryceh> barry, mind attaching your glxinfo to bug 1039157 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039157 in xorg (Ubuntu) "X problems in Fusion guest" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039157
<barry> bryceh: sure thing
<barry> bryceh: oh awesome, compiz crashed
<bryceh> barry, of course :-)
<bryceh> barry, actually I see in the UnitySupportTest.txt attachment that yes you are on llvmpipe
<barry> bryceh: that's interesting.  why would that be if i (supposedly) have 3d enabled?
<bryceh> so Logan might be right that it's llvmpipe troubles
<bryceh> barry, well llvmpipe gives you 3D, but it's software accelerated rather than hardware
<bryceh> barry, looks like unity_support_test is failing
<barry> bryceh: interesting.  maybe fusion doesn't present the necessary info to trick x into thinking it's got h/w suport
<bryceh> possibly
<bryceh> or perhaps like I mentioned earlier, something needs updated in order to work with xserver 1.13.  that's not uncommon
<slangasek> barry: what 3d interface does fusion actually provide?
<bryceh> barry, as a workaround have you tried running gnome-session-fallback (no effects)?  if the above is correct then at least that should work problem free
<barry> slangasek: good question.  i don't know how to answer that.  all i know is that the fusion settings have a switch for "Accelerate 3D Graphics" which i turn on.
 * slangasek nods
<barry> bryceh: i could try that, if i can get back to a usable login screen ;)
<slangasek> barry: so the X server running inside fusion needs to know how to access the 3d accelerated interface
<barry> bryceh: bug 1039223 is the compiz crash
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1039223 could not be found
<slangasek> Ctrl+Alt+F1 + login + killall gnome-session? :)
<barry> bryceh: glxinfo attached to bug 1039157
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039157 in xorg (Ubuntu) "X problems in Fusion guest" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039157
<barry> slangasek: let's see if i can make that work ;)
<slangasek> GraphicsCard:
<slangasek>  VMware SVGA II Adapter [15ad:0405] (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
<slangasek>    Subsystem: VMware SVGA II Adapter [15ad:0405]
<slangasek> er, heh; that doesn't look promising
<barry> slangasek: interesting.  killing the gnome session reverts back to the tiny fonts
<seb128> bryceh, I don't think  the unity_support_test is having any impact in quantal
<seb128> bryceh, the 2d session got dropped so there is no fallbacking, it just starts 3d and let it render through gl or llvmpipe
<slangasek> barry: so unless it's mocking up one of the video card families that X knows how to do hw 3d on, which does not appear to be the case here, I think you're stuck with sw rendering inside the VM
<barry> slangasek: sadly, i've been unable to reinstall vmware-tools.  it can't find the right kernel headers to recompile the tools (and understandably, the existing tools don't support the 12.10 kernels yet)
<slangasek> barry: where the set of supported families is AIUI those listed in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dri/
<slangasek> (or $insert_your_arch_here)
<slangasek> oh hmm, what's /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dri/vmwgfx_dri.so?
<slangasek> looks suspiciously like vmware in the name
<slangasek> so maybe vmware-tools is the problem
<barry> slangasek: tbh, i've never installed vmware-tools and it's always Just Worked
<slangasek> ah?
<barry> yeah
<barry> slangasek: yep, i have vmwgfx_dri.so from the libgl1-mesa-dri package
<slangasek> yeah, and I've confirmed (from source) that .so is for VMWare
<barry> slangasek: yes, and i think 12.04 was the first version where 3d on linux actually worked
<slangasek> now I've told you all I know, and will stop interfering with the debugging by the X experts :)
<barry> :)
<bryceh> seb128, I know unity2d got dropped; is gnome-session-fallback (i.e. gnome 2d) gone as well?
<barry> bryceh: if there's llvm bugs, and if the 3d acceleration isn't being used for some reason, then the corruption and compiz crashes make some sense i suppose
<bryceh> barry, I've updated the bug report, I think there's multiple different problems being exposed here.  But the root is the missing drm driver like slangasek pointed out
<seb128> bryceh, that's not installed by default and unity session will not do autofallbacking for you
<seb128> bryceh, the fallback for unity3d is unity3d through llvmpipe
<seb128> so I don't think the helper is even used anymore
<seb128> unity3d is started when selected and then it's xorg's job to figure how to render it
<bryceh> seb128, ah maybe you misunderstood... I was suggesting trying 2D as diagnosing and isolating if it's just the 3D driver that's broken.
<bryceh> barry, apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-video-modesetting ?
<barry> bryceh: k, sec. rebooting the guest...
<tjaalton> barry: I think you need the kernel part for the dri driver to work
<barry> apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-video-modesetting
<barry> xserver-xorg-video-modesetting:
<barry>   Installed: (none)
<barry>   Candidate: 0.4.0-0ubuntu1
<barry>   Version table:
<barry>      0.4.0-0ubuntu1 0
<tjaalton> -modesetting is not yet pulled in by default, though it wouldn't help here
<barry>         500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ quantal/universe amd64 Packages
<barry>  
<barry> tjaalton: what needs to be installed?
<tjaalton> barry: you said it yourself. vmware-tools, which won't build against the quantal kernel?
<tjaalton> the joys of vbox/vmware during devel series ;)
<bryceh> tjaalton, heya
<tjaalton> bryceh: hi
<bryceh> tjaalton, so... known issue?  or just unsurprising?
<barry> tjaalton: ah.  yep, i can't get it to build.  i'll contact vmware, but i suspect they're either on top of it, or won't have anything any time soon
<tjaalton> bryceh: looks solved to me :)
<barry> tjaalton: yeah, i really should have kept my snapshot before the last update (as i usually do), but i thought i'd weathered the xorg shuffle already ;)
<tjaalton> barry: one of their devs is on #ubuntu-x
<barry> tjaalton: but, i think the llvm problem causing the corruption is still an issue right?
<barry> tjaalton: cool, i'll hop on there
<bryceh> barry, yeah and could be #1021104
<tjaalton> bryceh: yes it is
<barry> tjaalton: that does look like it could be the problem
<tjaalton> its _a_ problem :)
<barry> tjaalton: well, *my* problem :)  subscribed now!
<tjaalton> :)
<tjaalton> but if vmware-tools would build then you'd not see this one
<barry> tjaalton: right, because then i'd be using 3d and not llvmpipe
<tjaalton> yep
<seb128> is anyone still having a natty or oneiric install to help testing the fix for bug #1035305
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1035305 in firefox (Ubuntu Precise) "Crash when switching apps back to Firefox (may be Firebug related)" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035305
<YokoZar> Hmm, it seems like the i386 buildd for PPAs is over a day behind the amd64 one...
<micahg> YokoZar: arch: all vs arch:any
<micahg> and we're still missing ~20 or so builders
<YokoZar> micahg: Ahh reasonable.  Still, my buddy uploaded directly to wine ppa rather than copying from a staging PPA so now wine is uninstallable for like 2 days.
<YokoZar> (really wanting a feature that prevents publishing until all arch builds are complete...hell we might want that in Ubuntu proper)
<stgraber> YokoZar: url?
<cjwatson> You can do that by using a staging PPA.
<cjwatson> And copy in when it's complete.
<cjwatson> (Probably scriptable, even.)
<YokoZar> cjwatson: right, but you have to manually copy it when it's done.  Which is some random amount of time in the future that can range from 3 to 30+ hours
<cjwatson> Like I say, it's almost certainly scriptable.  It's certainly exposed over the API.
<YokoZar> (according to launchpad the source package was uploaded 2 days ago)
<micahg> cjwatson: any hope of switching squashfs to use xz compression?
<cjwatson> micahg: No.
<cjwatson> micahg: Kills rsyncability.
<micahg> cjwatson: so, for live ISOs my only options are to gut packages?
<micahg> wow...bad english
<cjwatson> micahg: The live image size is officially due to be raised for 12.10, I believe.  cdimage just hasn't caught up.
<YokoZar> cjwatson: scriptable maybe...though I will need a script to run for the 30 hours then.
<micahg> cjwatson: that's great for Ubuntu, but not Xubuntu which wants to keep a 700MB ISO
<micahg> cjwatson: is squashfs compression format configuarable on a per ISO basis?
<cjwatson> Dunno.  Maybe.
<cjwatson> You have no testers with limited bandwidth, then?
<micahg> idk, if it's an option, I'll ask
<cjwatson> Because it really does kick the hell out of poor connections.
<micahg> or rather that was my thinking :)
<cjwatson> I'd suggest seeing if any fat has crept into the package list first.  There's usually something.
<micahg> yeah, I've been digging through it, most of it came from python3 and some fonts apparently, I think I can probably kill the fonts, but I'm stuck with python 3
<bmhatfield> Hi there, I got redirected here from #debian, because I am in territory where I'm not sure where to turn next. Specifically, I am having trouble with dh_python2 adding a dependency on python 2.7.1, even when I specify XS-Python-Version. I can't figure out how to make it stop, because I need my package to work on python 2.6 and 2.7
<bmhatfield> Is there a better place to ask for help than here?
<jtaylor> dh_python2 uses X-Python-Version
<jtaylor> bmhatfield: ^
<jtaylor> and you need to build depend on python-all where python-all also includes 2.6
<jtaylor> so oneiric or older
<bmhatfield> jtaylor: I'm having a mental block reading your sentence there; were you saying that in order for it all to work right, I need to run my build on oneric?
<infinity> bmhatfield: We haven't shipped python2.6 since oneiric.  The way the python-all/dh_python2 magic works is by pulling in all the available/blessed versions and then doing what amounts to The Right Thing for each.
<infinity> bmhatfield: So, if your goal is to have a package that works with 2.6, it kinda needs to build on a release that has 2.6
<bmhatfield> infinity:  That makes sense. I had hoped that I could work around it with a flag or something, since my syntax is 2.6+ compatible
<infinity> bmhatfield: Well, the only reason people generally want to be able to depend on older packages is to be able to run on older releases.  If you were compiling, say, a C program linking to libc, and wanted lucid's libc6 as your lowest-common-denominator, you'd build on lucid.  This is no different, really.
<infinity> bmhatfield: So, if the goal is to run on old releases, build on old releases, basically.
<bmhatfield> infinity:  Thank you for the info. I appreciate it.
#ubuntu-devel 2012-08-21
<BenC> Laney: What did you mean last week by "will work itself out" regarding all the haskell dep-waits and ftbfs on powerpc?
<BenC> Is there a plan to get this worked through, or what?
<infinity> BenC: Most of it will shake out via extensive give-backs.
<infinity> BenC: Unless some bits are just plain broken and holding up the whole mess.
<infinity> BenC: None of that's going to happen until the current insane backlog brought on by the weekend DC move is cleared, though.
<BenC> infinity: It looks like a lot of dep-waits are on things that need ABI related recompiles (e.g., they compiled in the wrong order, against older modules with wrong ABI, and now that module is recompiled against a newer ABI, so uninstallable now, etc, etc)
<infinity> BenC: In cases where order got broken, yeah, we'll need some no-change uploads.  Again.  I was hoping Laney was keeping an eye on that, though.
<BenC> It's pretty horrid for powerpc :(
<infinity> The GHC transition tracker doesn't seem to think PPC is an much worse shape than anyone else.
<infinity> s/is an/is in/
<BenC> Scrolling down the ftbfs listing gives me a different impression
<infinity> Yes, but FTBFS doesn't mean broken, just means it might need some careful unsnagging or violent give-backs.
<infinity> The tracker tracks uninstallability (in theory), and it shows all arches in pretty much the same boat for haskell packages.
<infinity> So, either the tracker heuristic is wrong, or the situation isn't all that bad and we just need a bunch of give-backs in the right order.
<BenC> infinity: Well, I only ever meant it in a sense of "my beautiful numbers are not slogging" :)
<BenC> *now
<BenC> infinity: where's the ghc tracker?
<infinity> BenC: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ghc.html
<infinity> BenC: It may well be wrong.  I don't have the time to look at it much today, but fiddling with this transition was on my TODO.
<BenC> infinity: the tracker shows things like haskell-algebra as being "X" on all platforms, but the ftbfs page only shows it being ftbfs on powerpc
<BenC> Maybe I don't understand what X and Y is
<BenC> err, X and check
<BenC> Thanks for the page though, I'll just keep checking back
<infinity> X is if the check deems it "broken" from the POV of the transition (in this case, if it's uninstallable).
<infinity> Like I said, the check might also be broken.  But a package being built or not has no bearing on it having transitioned correctly.
<infinity> Usually, these trackers use simple heuristics like "does it depend on the new or old SOVER", but the crackful wait GHC does ABI tracking makes this difficult. :P
<infinity> s/wait/way/
<infinity> Also, I can't type on Mondays.
<infinity> tjaalton: Did xserver-xorg-core-udeb pick up a libdrm dependency it didn't used to have?
<RAOF> infinity: It didn't used to have a libdrm dependency?
<infinity> RAOF: Dunno, looking.
<infinity>  Depends: xkb-data-udeb, x11-xkb-utils-udeb, udev-udeb (>= 149), libc6-udeb (>= 2.15), libpciaccess0-udeb (>= 0.12.902), libpixman-1-0-udeb (>= 0.21.6), libudev0-udeb (>= 147), libxau6-udeb, libxfont1-udeb (>= 1:1.4.2)
<infinity>  Depends: xkb-data-udeb, x11-xkb-utils-udeb, udev-udeb (>= 149), libc6-udeb (>= 2.15), libdrm2 (>= 2.4.31), libpciaccess0-udeb (>= 0.12.902), libpixman-1-0-udeb (>= 0.25.2), libudev0-udeb (>= 147), libxau6-udeb, libxfont1-udeb (>= 1:1.4.2)
<infinity> Obviously, the latter fails miserably, as that's a non-udeb dependency.
<infinity> So, we need a libdrm2-udeb
<infinity> Or we need xserver-core to not actually depend on it.
<infinity> Pick on.
<infinity> one
<RAOF> Hm.
<RAOF> I could look into why it's pulling in libdrm now.
<infinity> Cool.
<infinity> We may decide it's unavoidably, and you get to add udebbery to libdrm.
<infinity> Either way, it's blocking d-i builds, which sucks a little.
<infinity> unavoidable, too.
<infinity> RAOF: We could also just not build those bits of d-i that I don't think we actually use in Ubuntu, but that discussion should involve cjwatson (and it probably needs investigating/fixing for Debian somehow anyway)
<RAOF> infinity: Ok.
<RAOF> infinity: The libdrm dependency is new, and it's due to the addition of hotplug support. Probably the correct action is to generate a libdrm2-udeb.
<infinity> RAOF: Would it need to include all the hardware-specific modules in the udeb too, I wonder, or just the base library?
<RAOF> Just the base library.
<RAOF> X isn't doing anything funky; it just wants things like the âYo! Is KMS supported?â function.
<infinity> RAOF: Mmkay.  Then go forth and get me a libdrm udeb, and I'll heart you forever.
<infinity> RAOF: And a new xorg-server upload that fixes the dep.
<infinity> And then none of that will build because we're still in DC move hell.
<jk-> i sure hope that function starts with yo_
<RAOF> infinity: What's the urgency on that?
<infinity> RAOF: Given that I can't build installers, and I blame you, I'd say moderately so.  Day or two, don't let it fall off the radar sort of urgency.
<RAOF> Ok. One libdrm2-udeb coming right up.
<infinity> RAOF: I'm going to see about getting us some buildds back again, which would then make the xorg/drm thing a bit more urgent in that we can actually fix it. :P
<tjaalton> infinity: right, looks like it was added by dh_shlibdeps, so a rebuild after the libdrm update should be enough
<infinity> tjaalton: One would hope, assuming the udebification of libdrm is done right.
<tjaalton> yeah
<RAOF> tjaalton: just finishing off the testing
<infinity> RAOF: Good timing, we haz buildds again.
<tjaalton> RAOF: nice
<pitti> Good morning
<infinity> Bah.  The disk in my local mirror just started dying.  It must be bedtime.
<RAOF> infinity: One shiny new libdrm uploaded
<infinity> RAOF: Thanks.  Scored those up a bit.  If you want to throw an xorg-server up with a versioned build-dep, you can just fire-and-forget.  Or I can do a no-change upload in the morning after I let these through NEW.
<RAOF> I'll do a versioned build-dep upload.
<RAOF> Now that ZoÃ«'s lying down.
<infinity> RAOF: Did you verify that dpkg-shlibdeps DTRT when built against this version?
<RAOF> Yes; I rebuilt xorg-server against it, and the -udeb had an appropriate dependency against libdrm2-udeb.
<infinity> RAOF: Shiny.  Many thanks for the quick fix.
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Quantal Quetzal development | Archive: Open (DIF) | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/  | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: dholbach, Daviey
<dholbach> Daviey, still piloting? :)
<dholbach> can somebody please reject https://code.launchpad.net/~jm-leddy/ubuntu/precise/transmageddon/movepresets/+merge/117478
<pitti> dholbach: *zap*(
<dholbach> thanks :)
<Laney> infinity: (Looks like BenC has gone): : I don't see anything out of the ordinary. It went on hold due to the move and associated backlog.
<Laney> I'm honestly not sure why he's panicking so much
<Daviey> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Quantal Quetzal development | Archive: Open (DIF) | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/  | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: dholbach
<Daviey> no :)
<Laney> infinity: One thing to note is that the tracker is all-or-nothing since the archive changed to hold arch:all packages back when an arch is behind. Ben sees the older version and still thinks that the package is 'bad'.
<Laney> that's happening with cmdargs for example, and has lead me and some others to spuriously rebuild it ;-)
<tumbleweed> is that not solveable in the tracker?
<Laney> well, the code is there, anything is possible :-)
<Laney> it's a matter of applying the appropriate effort in its direction, y'know? :P
<tumbleweed> you're the one who knows the codebase :)
<Laney> only the parts that I had to change
<Laney> a possibly easier fix (and one which may be necessary when it starts looking at proposed) is to pre-process its input
<Laney> I'm kind of loathe to do anything about it until the new ben is deployed though
<tumbleweed> yeah
<seb128> hum
<seb128> pitti, moving here
<seb128> pitti, archive-reports returns after a few seconds and http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/quantal_probs.html is still not updated
<seb128> something weird going on there
<pitti> seb128: it compares timestamps of the previous run
<pitti> and thus is likely to return early
 * pitti starts run-britney manually
<pitti> so yes, that doesn't seem to work either
<seb128> pitti, the first time I ran it, I got some warnings
<seb128> "$ archive-reports
<seb128> file has vanished: "/home/ubuntu-archive/mirror/ubuntu/dists/quantal/universe/source/.Sources.gz.otVOT0"
<seb128> rsync warning: some files vanished before they could be transferred (code 24) at main.c(1070) [sender=3.0.9]
<seb128> "
<pitti> I'm fairly sure we had that problem before
<seb128> do you remember what it was,how you solved it?
<pitti> I didn't; I think cjwatson debugged it
<seb128> cjwatson, help! ;-)
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> ah
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1158647/
<pitti> seb128, cjwatson ^
<pitti> lplib login_anonymously
<seb128> hum, another corrupted cache issue?
<pitti> ... crashes, splendid
 * pitti purges cache and re-runs
<seb128> pitti, rm .launchpadlib/api.launchpad.net/cache
<seb128> and try again
<pitti> does that happen often?
<pitti> yeah, running now
<seb128> to NBS, every day or so recently
<seb128> pitti, cjwatson said it's a lazr.restfulclient bug and that we need the fix released and SRUed to stop those
<pitti> seb128: it's updated now, BTW
<pitti> still running for _outdate, tohugh
<seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/quantal_probs.html looks much better on amd64, I guess another run for armhf to settle
<seb128> pitti, danke
<ogra_> gah, server images are broken
<ogra_> oh, probably because there was a linux upload
<Daviey> ogra_: yeah, 19 hours ago
<ogra_> right, but d-i wasnt bumped yet
<Daviey> ogra_: missing kernel modules?
<ogra_> yeep
<Daviey> yeah, same on the testing.
<Daviey> cjwatson: do you have a d-i upload planned/
<Daviey> ?
<ogra_> yup (it was my automatic continous arm testing here that alarmed me :) )
<pitti> it's not that hard -- check out bzr, bump the kernel versions (just look at the previous bump), and bzr bd -S; there's no extra magic
<ogra_> pitti, well, the installer team rules require yuz to have CIA set up properly to announce your commits in the IRC channel :)
<pitti> I did several d-i kernel bumps in the past without that and never got a complaint
<ogra_> ah. well
<ogra_> (documented on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installer/Development)
<ogra_> hmm, seems infinity already did it
<ogra_> ah, it FTBFS !
<ogra_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<ogra_>  xserver-xorg-core-udeb : Depends: libdrm2 (>= 2.4.31) but it is not installable
<ogra_> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
<pitti> should be good to retry now, not on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/quantal_probs.html any more
<ogra_> done
<Daviey> pitti: I didn't claim it was hard, but if there is already one in the pipe... it makes sense to ask.
<pitti> Daviey: oh, sure; I was just pointing out the procedure to avoid blocking on him
<Daviey> what is more interesting to me, is why this happened.. before linux was pocket-copied, why wasn't there a d-i waiting to go in tandem?
<Laney> FTBFSed again :-)
<ogra_> same issue
 * Daviey reviews the libdrm binaries 
<ogra_> i wonder if that dependency is right
<ogra_> libdrm2 builds libdrm2-udeb but xserver-xorg-core-udeb depends on libdrm2 not libdrm2-udeb
<dholbach> can somebody please reject https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/precise/telepathy-glib/0.18.2-0ubuntu1/+merge/117176?
<pitti> dholbach: done
<dholbach> thanks pitti
<dholbach> pitti, oops - can you unreject? it was for precise /o\
<pitti> dholbach: done
<ogra_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/xorg-server/2:1.12.99.904-0ubuntu2 is in dep-wait on most arches, that holds up d-i
<tjaalton> shove libdrm through first
 * ogra_ retries them 
<ogra_> i thought libdrm was done
<tjaalton> probably in NEW
<tjaalton> hum no
<pitti> libdrm is built everywhere
<ogra_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdrm/2.4.38-0ubuntu2/+build/3733603 say it was published
<ogra_> *says
<seb128> let's retry builds?
<ogra_> right
<pitti> but the buildd lag is quite severe, perhaps they just didn't get to it again
<tjaalton> but libdrm2-udeb is in universe..
<ogra_> on it :)
<ogra_> oh !
<pitti> moving libdrm2-udeb to main
<ogra_> thx
<pitti> (will need another publisher, though)
<ogra_> well, shouldnt hold up xorg from building
<pitti> seb128: btw, all the approved empathy stuff on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg, should that be promoted?
<seb128> ogra_, why would xorg-xserver depwaiting on all arch holds up d-i?
<ogra_> if anyone wants to bunp scroes for all builds under https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/2:1.12.99.904-0ubuntu2
<pitti> ogra_: doing
<seb128> pitti, yes, if jdstrand finally signed off that stack
<ogra_> seb128, because d-i needs xserver-xorg-core-udeb which in turn depends on libdrm2-udeb in the newest upload
<seb128> pitti, they were still discussing it yesterday, security team had issue with the increasing webkit use and maintainability and security
<ogra_> seb128, the upload thats in the archive depended on libdrm2, not on libdrm2-udeb
<seb128> ok
<seb128> pitti, ok, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libaccounts-glib/+bug/1029549/comments/32
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029549 in signon-ui (Ubuntu) "[MIR] online-accounts and friends" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<seb128> pitti, seems like we can promote
<ogra_> sigh
<ogra_> there is still something wrong
<ogra_> went into depwait on libdrm-dev (>= 2.4.38-0ubuntu2~) again
<pitti> libdrm-dev | 2.4.32-1ubuntu1 |       precise | amd64, armel, armhf, i386, powerpc
<pitti> that might explain it :)
<ogra_> precise ?
<pitti> err, sorry
<ogra_> :)
<pitti> libdrm-dev | 2.4.38-0ubuntu1 |       quantal | amd64, armel, armhf, i386, powerpc
<pitti> ubuntu1 < ubuntu2~
<seb128> when were the binaries NEWed?
<seb128> we need a publisher run after NEWing to get the new version available
<seb128> next publisher run I guess...
 * ogra_ goes to twiddle thumbs in a corner then
<seb128> ogra_, I can give you work if you want...
<ogra_> lol
<seb128> ogra_, NBS has plenty of material to keep you busy ;-)
<ogra_> dont take my statements to literal :)
 * ogra_ has enough to do :)
<seb128> :-p
<mitya57> pitti: hi, is there any policy for adding packages to jenkins autopkgtest section?
<mitya57> pitti: is it possible to add there sphinx, for example?
<mitya57> (my own interest is python-docutils, but version with DEP-8 tests is still in experimental because of a RC bug)
<pitti> mitya57: sure! you just need to add autopkgtests, and add a "XS-Testsuite: autopkgtest" source header in debian/control
<pitti> mitya57: it'll get picked up automatically then
<mitya57> pitti: ah, great, is that header name already a standard?
<pitti> mitya57: yes, I got that in some months ago
<mitya57> pitti: great, so I'll now file some bugs to Debian about that header ;)
<verwilst> hi, not sure if there's a kernel developer here i can talk to wrt a patch?
<ogra_> try #ubuntu-kernel
<cjwatson> #ubuntu-kerenl
<cjwatson> Only with spelling
<lifeless> #ubuntu-kerning might be fun.
<ogra_> and finally we have a d-i
<kwoot> I am making a ubuntu package to customize 1204 to our company network. How can I use my package to answer configuration questions about the krb5-config package upon which it depends?
<ogra_> read about preseeding
<Debolaz> Making the preseeding process easier would be a good step towards making Ubuntu more enterprise-friendly imho.
<sil2100> Hi guys!
<sil2100> Our compiz merges and builds all started failing on compiz due to some problem in latest librsvg
<sil2100> /usr/include/librsvg-2.0/librsvg/rsvg-cairo.h:27:2: error: #warning "Including <librsvg/rsvg-cairo.h> directly is deprecated."
<kwoot> but preseeding seems to be for doing a fresh install. I want to do a install using flashdisk and later on install my customization package. Or is that not the best way to go forward?
<sil2100> We get this all the time
<sil2100> Anyone knows who I should ping about this issue?
<sil2100> Wait, acutally ;)
<sil2100> Nevermind!
<ogra_> Debolaz, whats wrong with it ? it even has a gui tool (system-config-kickstart) to manage it
<xnox> kwoot: see late_command or equivalent for ubiquity.
<xnox> kwoot: you can do most of the stuff with preseeding, e.g. answering any debconf installation questions etc.
<xnox> kwoot: what do you want to customize in your "customisation package"
<kwoot> xnox: well, kerberos and ldap config, printerdrivers install, configure loginwindow for non-local users, mount windows (sorry) shares, sudoers file. For starters :-)
<xnox> kwoot: you would be better off with puppet than a customisation package.
<xnox> kwoot: cause once all your machines are talking to puppet you can easily change/modify/increase configuration.
<xnox> kwoot: debian packages should not touch files under /etc
<kwoot> xnox: don't get me started, I know. Thing is, I am head of dev dept, and sysadmin dept wants to go all MS.
<Debolaz> ogra_: That GUI lacks some necessary features, such as full disk encryption. But creating the preseed file isn't the biggest problem, its using it. Most tools for remastering an Ubuntu ISO are either difficult to use or just plain don't work with the most recent version of Ubuntu, forcing the user to hunt around.
<xnox> kwoot: puppet can manage MS as well.
<kwoot> xnos :-)
<ogra_> Debolaz, why would you modify the iso for preseeding ?
<cjwatson> Debolaz: I tend to agree, but unfortunately not enough hours in the day
<ogra_> jusr use the url= kernel cmdline option
<Debolaz> ogra_: Because you want it to work automatically, and doing that at the moment requires quite a bit of black magic if you're not integrating it into the ISO.
<ogra_> *just
<Debolaz> ogra_: I'm not arguing that it can't be done. I'm saying that it could be a lot better.
<ogra_> oh, for sure it could be improved
<ogra_> but then i also dont think its actually bad
<Debolaz> Another difficulty for Ubuntu in the enterprise environment at the moment is Landscape. There's no way of getting it without a support contract, I don't even know what it looks like, where is my incentive to spend money on something I don't know if will solve a problem or not?
<ogra_> oh, and if you install from USB the iso changing really isnt relevant :)
<ogra_> (you can just cp your file in place)
<ogra_> didnt landscape have a trial option ?
 * Debolaz doesn't see that anywhere now.
<Debolaz> If it's there, it's well hidden. :-)
<ogra_> heh
<Debolaz> ogra_: The Ubuntu documentation says you have to remake the initrd for the ISO, so it seems to be a little bit more effort than to just copy it over involved even for the USB option.
<ogra_> i havent looked at landscape in years, dont ask me :) but i seem to remember there was a trial option
 * Debolaz does actually remember the trial option himself now that you mention it.
<Debolaz> Many, many years ago.
<cjwatson> One problem is that we don't have any staff tech writers, so documentation is either as developers get round to it - and developers don't often make good documenters - or rather haphazard wiki pages
<cjwatson> s/don't often/often don't/  wow, word order can produce quite different emphasis from what I intended
<cjwatson> As it happens there's no need to rebuild the initrd just for preseeding, although it can be the easiest way to do preseeding of things early in the installation
<Debolaz> I'm also in the situation that I simply do not have a lot of time to contribute, otherwise I'd probably take it on myself to make an "Enterprise Ubuntu" edition. :)
<cjwatson> There's really no reason for it to be a separate edition
<cjwatson> All the installer kind of stuff you mention is common
<jocarter> cjwatson: isn't there an ubuntu business edition by canonical?
<cjwatson> nowt to do with me :
<cjwatson> :P
<Daviey> Debolaz: I struggle with the thought that Ubuntu Server isn't already Enterprise suitable.
<cjwatson> and anyway it doesn't make installer changes
<cjwatson> (afaik)
<jocarter> Debolaz: you could even get an evaluation version here! http://www.ubuntu.com/business/desktop/remix
<Daviey> jocarter: There is a desktop remix, with less social apps etc, built in non-free components such as Flash and Java.. but that is entirely different for server
<dupondje> xnox: thx for cryptsetup merge :)
<Daviey> Server hasn't focused on "basement deployments" for some years.
<lifeless> Daviey: http://www.baserock.com/
<xnox> dupondje: np =) it was non-trivial. Most of the stuff did go into debian, but the 2 upstart jobs for Booting + 2 SysV init jobs for Shutdown is "interesting"
<dupondje> xnox: there should exist a cleaner way imo ... :p
<xnox> dupondje: well http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#shutdown
<xnox> dupondje: note how upstart is killed early, before rootfs unmount, and cryptsetup unmount should happen after rootfs is unmounted...
<xnox> =/
<seb128> pitti, did you say you would promote the empathy,signon stuff earlier or should I do it? the MIR got acked
<pitti> ah, I didn't; I was just wondering about it, as I looked at c-m for that libdrm udeb
<seb128> pitti, ok, doing it
<xnox> dupondje: I presume jodh might know if there is a better way.... or simply work towards upstart handing *all* of the shutdown...
<dupondje> xnox: guess thats the best goal :)
<dupondje> or remove it :P
<jodh> xnox, dupondje: yes, that is the plan.
<ogra_> whats there to handle ? umount and halt ...
<xnox> jodh: cool. Cause cryptsetup is in split situation now: booting with upstart jobs, shutdown with SysV init scripts ;-)
<ogra_> :)
<jodh> xnox: yeah - not ideal.
<xnox> ogra_: yeah + networkfs, raid (dmraid, btrfs, mdadm), lvm, cryptsetup and then you are done =)
<dupondje> now its dirty situation imo
<xnox> jodh: it works without a hitch for now. So it's not critical.
<Debolaz> Daviey: We have had Ubuntu servers in this company before, but managing them was always a very manual process, and there wasn't really obvious value in getting landscape. It seems this is a fairly common experience.
<dupondje> xnox: 'it works' ... :) but its not clean imo
<dupondje> 4 init scripts for 1 thing
 * dupondje not like :)
<Daviey> Debolaz: When did you last use Landscape?
<Debolaz> Daviey: I actually remember trying it a few months after it was released. It may have been a lot of improvements since then, but none of those are communicated through the website.
<Debolaz> Its a fairly expensive application after all.
<dupondje> jodh: any eta on shutdown support in Upstart ?
<jodh> dupondje: not this cycle unless you're offering to help? :)
<dupondje> If I had enough time .. :)
<jodh> dupondje: snap ;-D
<Daviey> Debolaz: Landscape has been around since, what.. 2007?  I'd hope it has imporved since then..
<smoser> cjwatson, caribou has a mp at https://code.launchpad.net/~louis-bouchard/ubuntu/precise/grub2/grub2-recordfail-timeout/+merge/120562 that looks straight forward enough.
<smoser> due to 12.04.1, should i hold out on uploading?
<Debolaz> Daviey: It was probably around 2008 that I tried it.
<smoser> or just assume that entry into -proposed is gated anyway atm.
<cjwatson> smoser: It's fine to upload to -proposed
<smoser> k. thanks.
<cjwatson> After all it'll land in the queue anyway
<cjwatson> If nothing else
<mitya57> pitti: does the Jenkins server run autopkgtest >= 2.2.0 (so that $ADTTMP is available)?
<pitti> mitya57: it runs whatever is in quantal, which is 2.2.3
<mitya57> pitti: great, I do now have lp:~mitya57/ubuntu/quantal/sphinx/autopkgtests, now will test it and propose the merge
<pitti> nice!
<ev> mpt: for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1020580, what do you think of http://errors.ubuntu.com/filter/Ubuntu 12.04/software-center/5.3.7, http://errors.ubuntu.com/filter/software-center/5.3.7, http://errors.ubuntu.com/filter/software-center, ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020580 in Errors "Permanent URLs for most common problems view" [Undecided,New]
<dholbach> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Quantal Quetzal development | Archive: Open (DIF) | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/  | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
 * ogra_ hugs dholbach 
 * dholbach hugs ogra_ back :)
<pitti> apw: hey Andy, how are you?
<pitti> apw: may I ask about the current status of kmod? at this point it's probably too late to package the systemd source for udev for quantal, so I guess for Q we are staying at our old stuff?
<apw> pitti, hiya, good thanks, and uyou
<seb128> pitti, come on, you have 2 days to ff, you can do it :p
<Debolaz> Btw, would be interesting to see zram enabled by default on Ubuntu desktops with less than 2 GB RAM.
<apw> pitti, oh dammit that got stalled, do we hold kmod now or do you think its worth putting in
<ogra_> Debolaz, apt-get install zram-conf
<Debolaz> ogra_: You missed a word. :)
<Debolaz> "default"
<Debolaz> It's zram-config btw.
<ogra_> right, file a whishlist bug :)
<pitti> apw: I still think it's worth putting in; it unblocks the packaging and gets rid of the old m-i-t at least
<pitti> seb128: well, I can give it a try of course
<seb128> pitti, I was mostly teasing you but it would be good to get that update in if we can
<Debolaz> ogra_: I'm thinking it could be a good thing because when I tried it on my 1 GB desktop, it gave it a monumental performance boost. Probably wouldn't make much difference if you had a lot more memory, but I'd say anywhere under 2 GB is probably going to be worth it.
 * xnox is sad over bug 460906
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460906 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "disk/by-uuid/foo symlink points to snapshot rather than the origin" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460906
<xnox> s/to snapshot/to a random snapshot/ would be more correct
 * xnox *sigh*
<jdstrand> infinity: hey, I have a weird situation with hardening options
<jdstrand> infinity: so, sbeattie uploaded https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/squid3/3.1.19-1ubuntu3 to enable hardening options
<jdstrand> infinity: it built fine and then I ran 'hardening-check /usr/sbin/squid3' and it shows that PIE and BIND_NOW are enabled
<jdstrand> (great!)
<jdstrand> infinity: then, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squid3/3.1.19-1ubuntu3.12.04.1 comes along and only changes the upstart job
<jdstrand> infinity: I run 'hardening-check /usr/sbin/squid3' and it shows that PIE and BIND_NOW are disabled
<jdstrand> (not great)
<jdstrand> let me see something
<jdstrand> ok, so using quantal's hardening check on the precise-updates binary, it still shows as not enabled
<jdstrand> kees: ^ could this be a bug in hardening-check?
<jdstrand> well, readelf -dW definitely is not showing BIND_NOW for the squid3 in precise-updates
<jdstrand> ah, interesting
<jdstrand> /usr/sbin/squid3 has 'Elf file type is DYN (Shared object file)' for the old squid3, but doesn't for the new
<jdstrand> infinity: nm
<jdstrand> well, for the moment
<jdstrand> yes, 'readelf -lW' is giving different results
<jdstrand> 'Elf file type is EXEC' vs 'Elf file type is DYN'
<jdstrand> well, hold on. that would mean that the compiler didn't make it pie
<jdstrand> infinity: ok, I think I need you again :)
 * jdstrand compares build logs
<tjaalton> does the installer image still have a 700MB budget?
<Laney> I think we decided on 850MiB? (and should update the cdimage scripts to know about that)
<dobey> i thought it was 1G but try to keep it as small as possible still
<tjaalton> ok, asking because updating mesa to still use a common libgallium.so to save space might still take some time, so we could upload what we have and use "some" more space.. (dunno how much, yet)
<jdstrand> hrm, there is nothing in the buildlog
 * jdstrand files a bug
<slangasek> tjaalton: we certainly have space to play with right now; I for one would rather have the new mesa in and worry about the size after
<tjaalton> slangasek: great
<tjaalton> slangasek: I'll upload it later this evening after some tests
<mpt> ev, as with Launchpad, for before-and-after-release URL persistence (and predictable consistency with Launchpad), it might be better to use the release codename
<slangasek> tjaalton: huzzah :)
<ogra_> tjaalton, does the package have llvmpipe for arm enabled ?
<tjaalton> ogra_: no, should it?
<tjaalton> it's enabled on fedora
<tjaalton> disabled here becase "no-one has tested it"
<ogra_> no idea, i olny heard bad stuff yet :) ... but if we want to test it broadly now would probably be the time to enable it ... that leaves us more time later if we need to disable it again
<tjaalton> maybe best to enable, what could possibly go wrong (worse)
<tjaalton> :)
<ogra_> right
<tjaalton> alright, will enable it as well
<tjaalton> no afk ->
<ogra_> we can drop it again in the next upload
<tjaalton> *now
<ogra_> if it shows to be a disaster :)
<ogra_> (which i actually suspect)
<jdstrand> infinity: I subscribed you to bug #1039593. can you take a look when you have a moment-- seems like it might be a build issue...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039593 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "squid3 lost compiler hardening options in last update, but shouldn't have" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039593
<jdstrand> kees: fyi ^
<xnox> slangasek: do you mind if I merge hdparm
<infinity> jdstrand: Erm...
<infinity> jdstrand: I hate to question your science here, but:
<infinity> However, 3.1.19-1ubuntu3.12.04.1 lost PIE and BIND_NOW, even though the only change was to the upstart job (see attached debdiff):
<infinity> [...]
<infinity> $ dpkg-deb -x /var/cache/apt/archives/squid3_3.1.19-1ubuntu2_amd64.deb files
<infinity> ^-- What's wrong with this picture?
<jdstrand> ah, hrm
<jdstrand> ok, hold on :)
 * jdstrand looks funny at his schroot
<slangasek> xnox: no objection
<jdstrand> infinity: man, I am an idiot. so, my chroot didn't have updates enabled, and then assumptions went from there
<xnox> slangasek: ok. will do sometime before the freeze & hopefully fix the other bug assigned to me about that package.
<slangasek> xnox: btw, I see the cryptsetup merge leaves the upstart job names as-is - did you and dupondje reach an agreement on this?  I thought he still wanted to change them
<jdstrand> infinity: thanks for the look :)
<xnox> slangasek: yes. see earlier discussion with dupondje, jodh and myself. The upstart jobs are used at the start-up, at shutdown/reboot upstart is killed, and then the both SysV init scripts are used to unmound cryptfs. Hence we need all four.
<jdstrand> infinity: and for questioning my 'science'
<xnox> s/unmound/unmount/
 * xnox can't type properly all day. I wonder if my keyboard's battery is flat.
<xnox> slangasek: so for now I am keeping all 4. When upstart will handle *all* of the shutdown, we can fully migrate.
<Andy80> hi
<iainfarrell> hi!
<Andy80> anyone knows why, even if I'm subscribed to ubuntu-devel mailing list, every time the message I send are kept for moderation? I get this reson: The reason it is being held: Post by non-developer to moderated list. - how do I become part of the developer group? Thanks.
<cjwatson> Andy80: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<cjwatson> It's quite intentional that posts from non-developers are moderated - that was part of the charter of the ubuntu-devel list, as opposed to ubuntu-devel-discuss
<slangasek> Andy80: you become part of the developer group by getting involved in Ubuntu development; I would suggest that you should have a stronger reason for doing this than wanting your posts to not be moderated, before you start down that process :)
<cjwatson> Indeed
<cjwatson> Andy80: I've moderated your post
<ev> mpt: for what it's worth, we'll need named parameters after all. As we need to map the parameters they give us in the URL to the fields in the HTML, so the view stays consistent with the data we're fetching.
<Andy80> slangasek: cjwatson sorry, I was away from keyboard. You're perfectly right. Anyway I'm actually interested in being involved in Ubuntu development :)
<Andy80> now I will read the wik in the mean time
<Andy80> cjwatson: thanks for approving the message :)
<kees> jdstrand: er, the backlog is confusing. was there a bug in hardening-check?
<jdstrand> kees: no. it was a bug in my process
<kees> jdstrand: ah, okay. :P anything I can do to hardening-check to help with that?
<jdstrand> kees: not unless you want to add an option to it to enable -updates in the schroot. and then have it know that is exactly what I need when I need it even though I might not be thinking about it :P
<kees> jdstrand: heheh, okay. I wasn't sure what the mode of failure was :)
<jdstrand> that might be hard to code
<jdstrand> and a bit of a corner-case
<kees> if [ "$USER" = "jdstrand" ]; then echo "hey, did you include -updates?"; fi
<jdstrand> hehe
<jdstrand> I'll pass on in-archive targeted trojans... err, workarounds :P
<kees> hehe
 * xnox ponders to include an eastern egg just for kees
<kees> heh. I still want my unity fire easter egg.
<xnox> kees: i wonder if anybody would notice an lvm2 file trigger to divert theme update after 1st of april  to do something like that.
<xnox> kees: I remember the bug report about "ubuntu virus" which plays music when openning.... a webbrowser.... with pacman-flash google doodle....
<kees> xnox: yes! the pacman day was great!
<xnox> kees: I have pinged you about lvm2 a while ago, it's sorted now. So no worries ;-)
<mitya57> doko: hi, can you please accept the patch from bug 1001585?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001585 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "Python documentation search does not work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001585
<mitya57> doko: (I believe this affects 3.2 and 3.3 as well)
<kees> xnox: ah yes. I was going to ask about that. sorry I was high-latency :)
<kees> xnox: will you be at Linux Plumber's next week?
<xnox> kees: sorry no, a bit too far from London =) slangasek might be there (?!)
 * xnox or probably somebody else....
<infinity> kees: stgraber and I will be there.
 * xnox mutters something about north americans hosting most of the events and always doing stuff together....
<seb128> xnox, we had the best even of the year in Europe though (GUADEC), your fault if you didn't come
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> but I guess people living in the u.k don't like the europeans either :p
<xnox> seb128: desktop.... that's not where the fun is at ;-) I have emacs, I don't need desktop ;-)
 * xnox is not british though
<seb128> hehe
<davmor2> seb128: I'll have you know we hate everyone the same, there are no favourites in this country ;)
<infinity> xnox: There's always FOSDEM.
<kees> infinity: sweeeet
<Andy80> I've seen that LightDM has a lightdm-qt subfolder http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-team/lightdm/trunk/files/head:/liblightdm-qt/ what is it used for? Was it used for Unity-2D or is it another thing?
<davmor2> Andy80: KDE maybe?
<penguin42> Andy80: lightdm-kde-greeter links against liblightdm-qt-2.so.0
<Andy80> davmor2: penguin42 ah it's a binding to use lightdm from KDE, ok.
<infinity> seb128: BTW, your libsecret uploaded probably wanted a build-dep on dobcook-xsl.  Which still will fail anyway later in the build with dh_install --fail-missing having a hissy fit about some files not being installed.
<seb128> infinity, thanks, will fix that, it's on my list of things to look at
<seb128> (hate xml and dtds)
<infinity> seb128: Well, I thought I'd do the docbook-xsl fix since it was an obvious 2-minute fix, but as I pointed out, that just fails later with: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1159563/
<infinity> seb128: So, I'll let you clean that up. :P
<seb128> infinity, thanks, seems like a side effect of Laney fixing vala
<alkisg> larsu: sorry for the ping, I'm affected by LP bug #842768 in precise with gnome-fallback, should I reopen the bug for indicator-printers? Maybe there was a regression somewhere? (didn't try if they show up in Unity or not)
<alkisg> "Lars Uebernickel (larsu) wrote on 2012-03-07: In precise, indicator-printers handles notifications. It doesn't show a notification in this case at all."
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 842768 in indicator-printers (Ubuntu Precise) "Cups notifies "printer ' xxx ' may be not connected " although printer is OK and printing is OK too" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842768
<larsu> alkisg, does gnome-fallback use indicator-printers?
<alkisg> larsu: I see it on my processes list
<larsu> "printer may not be connected" is probably coming from the printer plugin in gnome-settings-daemon
<alkisg> alkisg    2894  0.0  0.2  61120  9316 ?        Sl   10:40   0:01 /usr/lib/indicator-printers/indicator-printers-service
<larsu> which shouldn't run at the same time as indicator-printer
<alkisg> What's I'm seeing is "Error: connecting-to-device"
<alkisg> (while printing is fine)
<alkisg> alkisg    2052  0.0  0.5 259328 22408 ?        Sl   10:40   0:24 /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-daemon
<alkisg> alkisg    2425  0.0  0.1  49836  4180 ?        Sl   10:40   0:00 /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gsd-printer
<alkisg> Hmm so the problem is deeper, that one of gnome-settings-daemon or indicator-printers should be running?
<larsu> alkisg, yep, gsd-printer shouldn't be running
<larsu> let me find out why it is
<alkisg> Thank you
<larsu> alkisg, do you have dconf-editor installed?
<alkisg> larsu: yes
<larsu> cool, set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.print-notifications.active to false
<alkisg> larsu: do I need to logout to test?
<larsu> alkisg, don't know tbh :)
 * alkisg tests directly first...
<larsu> thanks
<alkisg> Ouch apport window about gnome-settings-daemon
<alkisg> (when I powered on the printer)
<larsu> urgh
<larsu> well I guess logout to test :)
<alkisg> ok, brb
<larsu> (definitely worth filing a bug, though)
<alkisg> ...I think I got a different printer icon now in the notification area... and no message about printing, problem solved!
<alkisg> Now to make gnome-fallback enforse that setting?
<larsu> alkisg, cool. Can you post a comment on the bug please? (Because I don't know how to set that as default)
<larsu> I'll ping the right people in the morning
<alkisg> larsu: sure, thank you again
<larsu> alkisg, np, glad I could help
<verwilst> hello! could somebody put the status of the bugreport to confirmed here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1020207 i kinda messed up :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020207 in linux (Ubuntu) "gfs2 kernel oops when deleting file as first action after mounting" [Undecided,Fix released]
<verwilst> the fix isnt released ;)
<tumbleweed> verwilst: done
<verwilst> thanks tumbleweed :)
<kenvandine> barry, FYI, that online-accounts branch is now merged into trunk
<barry> kenvandine: great!  i'm still slowly but surely making progress on my branch.  probably won't be ready for ff though :/
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> thanks!
<barry> sure thing!  i have a few more dbus services to port and then it might be fun to try to integrate the front-end with the new gwibber-service
<kenvandine> barry, I uploaded python3  fixes for the gi.overrides from libaccounts-glib and libsignon-glib today
<kenvandine> those would have broken you for sure
<kenvandine> not sure if you had hit those errors yet
<barry> kenvandine: cool.  btw, is there documentation for those libraries available?
<kenvandine> barry, you are funny...
<barry> kenvandine: not yet
<barry> ;)
<kenvandine> there are gtk docs
<kenvandine> libaccounts-glib-doc
<kenvandine> libsignon-glib-doc
<kenvandine> that is about it
<kenvandine> so far
<barry> hey, it's a start! :)
<tjaalton> slangasek: need to push the mesa upload for tomorrow, some rpath issues remain
<slangasek> tjaalton: anything I could help with?
<tjaalton> slangasek: you can test build from git, the upstream libdricore implementation seems to use rpaths
<slangasek> tjaalton: and this shows up as a lintian warning, or somewhere else?
<tjaalton> yup
<slangasek> ok
<tjaalton> error actually
<slangasek> tjaalton: interestingly, llvm is also needed for building the radeonsi driver; should the driver be made x86-only, or should the build-dep be added?
<slangasek> (this is from an armhf test build just now - I know we'll add llvm-3.1 for armhf anyway for llvmpipe, but that's separate)
<tjaalton> probably doesn't make sense to build it on arm
<tjaalton> oh
<tjaalton> right, the build-dep needs to be added
<tjaalton> since ogra_ wanted to build llvmpipe for armhf
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> but that's separate from whether we should build radeonsi on !x86
<slangasek> I don't know what kind of device radeonsi is
 * doko wonders if somebody maintains llvm for this kind of use ...
<tjaalton> radeon southern island
<tjaalton> some new chip gen
<tjaalton> slangasek: it builds all kinds of silly drivers on archs that have never seen the hw.. :)
<tjaalton> that said it's easy to make it build only on x86
<slangasek> tjaalton: sure; generally the rule is that if it's physically *possible* to have the hardware on the arch, we should build it
<slangasek> (the rule in Debian, anyway)
<tjaalton> right, ok
<tjaalton> slangasek: feel free to commit anything, I've had enough of this day :)
<slangasek> ack :)
<tjaalton> i'll check back in ~7h
<adam_g> is there anything blocking bug #1021530 from release into precise-updates? i just re-targetted toward precise-updates (was previously targetted @ 12.04.1)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021530 in openvswitch (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] update to include stable fixes for OVS 1.4" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021530
<shadeslayer> hi, I was wondering if someone could point me to where ubiquity picks up the RELEASE variable?
<slangasek> tjaalton: ok, it looks like the radeonsi driver is only buildable if using gallium llvm generally, so we don't really want that... I'll disable the driver on !x86 for now
<xnox> shadeslayer: yeah good question.
<xnox> shadeslayer: /cdrom/.disk/info
<xnox> shadeslayer: see misc.py
<shadeslayer> ah ok
<TREllis> 10
<TREllis> bah
<TREllis> :)
<shadeslayer> xnox: thanks
<xnox> shadeslayer: your welcome
 * shadeslayer goes off to find what casper-uuid-generic is
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: any progress on the live build merge?
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: almost done, but I found this afternoon that its handling of chroot hooks was broken, so I fixed that, started a test build, and then went out to dinner
<shadeslayer> ah alright
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: since the live build was broken, I've hacked my own scripts to do the customization
<cjwatson> so should be able to upload that stack tomorrow morning
<shadeslayer> now fiddling with casper-new-uuid
<shadeslayer> awesome
<cjwatson> I don't think there was much else broken, though I'll do another diff of file lists to make sure
<shadeslayer> hmm, I hope it makes ISO's bootable
<shadeslayer> though that'll mean throwing away the last 20 hours of work :P
<cjwatson> I don't know, but I'll be happier to spend time investigating on the new base
<shadeslayer> :)
<shadeslayer> tried hexdumping the fedora ISO?
<cjwatson> no
<cjwatson> enotime as yet
<shadeslayer> hehe :)
<penguin42> what would cause a mismatch of -dbgsym for apparently matching package versions: warning: the debug information found in "/usr/lib/debug//usr/bin/chuck.alsa" does not match "/usr/bin/chuck.alsa" (CRC mismatch).
<xnox> penguin42: version scew between package & dbgsym package.
<xnox> penguin42: upgrade & try again
<xnox> penguin42: or rebuild locally in sbuild to get the package & matchin dbgsym package
<penguin42> xnox: Same version numbers on both, both freshly installed
<xnox> penguin42: something diverted /usr/bin/chuck.alsa and now debug symbols do not match cause it's a different binary?
<penguin42> xnox: It's possible the package does something odd to get the chuck.alsa and chuck.oss etc
<xnox> penguin42: yes. there are packages that create bad -dbgsym package. In that case do open launchpad bug, to blacklist that package from generating dbgsym.
<xnox> penguin42: DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip ./debian/rules binary
<xnox> penguin42: is your best option ;-)
<penguin42> yeh, I might try buildign it locally; I was just triaging some ancient bugs - found this one which is a trivial seg - 3 years old and was still at new/undecided
<penguin42> there are a few gems in the older bugs - lots and lots of package install and probably fixed bugs, but some fun ones
#ubuntu-devel 2012-08-22
<shadeslayer> hm, is ubuntu-defaults-image something different from live build?
<shadeslayer> ah it's just a wrapper
<tjaalton> slangasek: yeah, sounds good
<slangasek> tjaalton: morning
<slangasek> fwiw I'm still looking at the rpath issue
<tjaalton> nice :)
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> bdmurray: please use UNRELEASED, dch -r, and debcommit -r with apport's ubuntu branch, so that releases get tagged properly
<pitti> bdmurray: I tagged ubuntu7 and ubuntu9 now
<slangasek> which is to say, please run echo DEBCHANGE_RELEASE_HEURISTIC=changelog >> ~/.devscripts on all development systems :)
<pitti> *heavily agree*
<pitti> I thought that finally became the default now?
<slangasek> the devscripts default has finally been changed, yeah
<slangasek> but it'll take a bit to propagate everywhere it needs to :P
<tjaalton> slangasek: all I could find was commit 37c3cbe05380 that mentions that "libtool uses rpath instead of runpath for nonstandard prefixes". dunno if multiarch triplet matters here, maybe not
<slangasek> tjaalton: it doesn't; the fact that we're copying from the build tree instead of DESTDIR may though, I'm looking to see if I can fix that
<tjaalton> ahh right the dri-drivers?
<slangasek> tjaalton: yeah
<slangasek> tjaalton: the swrast dri driver is being built on !x86 but not installed anywhere; do you know why?
<slangasek> looks like it might be a regression vs. unstable
<tjaalton> could be
<tjaalton> the llvmpipe driver is also called swrast
<tjaalton> which one is it?-)
<tjaalton> it's handled separately in rules
<tjaalton> don't see why it wouldn't get copied there
<tjaalton> btw, is it possible to echo to stderr from an upstart job?
<tjaalton> ah got it
<slangasek> tjaalton: the DRI one (i.e., the one being used on !x86) isn't getting installed
<slangasek> so, I think my cleanup is correct
<tjaalton> it should build the llvm one on armhf now
<slangasek> tjaalton: where do you see anything that installs the swrast driver in the non-gallium case?
<slangasek> anyway, doesn't matter, I'm deleting the special-handling of _dri.so in debian/rules now :)
<tjaalton> build/dri/${DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH}/*_dri.so  usr/lib/${DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH}/dri
<tjaalton> in libgl1-mesa.dri.install*in
<slangasek> tjaalton: ah, right
<tjaalton> before your cleanup anyway :)
<slangasek> tjaalton: yeah... makes sense now that you say it, I was making the mistake of comparing my build tree which *does* have the gallium version, for the rules for installing when it doesn't :)
<tjaalton> yeah it's confusing "at times"..
<slangasek> anyway, this fix is looking good... and should reduce confusion :)
<tjaalton> excellent
<slangasek> tjaalton: ok, pushed - see if that looks sane to you?
<tjaalton> slangasek: thanks, I'll check it in 20min
<tjaalton> slangasek: yep, looks good
<slangasek> tjaalton: libxatracker.so.1.0.0 doesn't seem to be a well-linked library; lots of undefined symbols, missing dependencies on -lm and -ldl
<tjaalton> slangasek: so it seems, a regression from the earlier series
<tjaalton> slangasek: did you try it on arm btw, would be nice to know if the llvmpipe swrast works at all
<slangasek> tjaalton: just finished building here; I won't get to test it until tomorrow
<tjaalton> ok
<dholbach_> good morning
<pitti> hey dholbach_
<dholbach> hey pitti
<pitti> there, apport support for package hooks in /opt
 * pitti hugs dholbach
 * dholbach hugs pitti back :)
<seb128> doko, hey, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-dummy/+bug/949600 ... you wrote "the package itself looks ok for main.", does it mean the MIR is acked? (need it to run some tests)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 949600 in xserver-xorg-video-dummy (Ubuntu) "[MIR] xserver-xorg-video-dummy" [Undecided,New]
<ajmitch> pitti: thanks :)
<pitti> RAOF, tjaalton: xserver-xorg-video-modesetting is not installable (http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/quantal_probs.html), which breaks image builds; is that known?
<cjwatson> pitti: already fixed, see -release
<pitti> BTW, we have http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/quantal-proposed_probs.html, so we can do such transitions in -proposed and only move to release once everything is ready
<pitti> cjwatson: thanks
<dholbach> 845533
<dholbach> wrong window obviously :)
<iainfarrell> dholbach: but what will we be granted access to? ;)
<iainfarrell> are you ordering a huge number of buttons perhaps? :)
<dholbach> iainfarrell, let me just have a few small secrets of my own :)
<iainfarrell> dholbach: well ok â¦ just this once :D
<ev> mpt, mvo: I've replied to the merge.
<ev> so excited!
<ev> I need to make the changes on the backend to start accepting these
<ev> but I'll get on that today
<mr_pouit> seb128: dropping gtk2 support of indicator-sound right before feature freeze isn't very nice :(
<mr_pouit> (as in, no time to reintroduce it)
<FourDollars> Hi, I encounter some problem when executing `bzr branch lp:ubuntu/precise/totem`.
<Laney> FourDollars: can you be slightly more specific? ;-)
<seb128> mr_pouit, hum, better after feature freeze right?
<seb128> mr_pouit, I wrote an email "System indicators will drop GTK2 support in quantal" to ubuntu-devel to July 29 ... it's not like it was not announced
<seb128> mr_pouit, gtk2 support was already dropped from other indicators earlier in the cycle, that's just finishing that work
<mitya57> Laney, FourDollars: confirmed
<mitya57> bzr: ERROR: Revision {package-import@ubuntu.com-20120109161939-wfwd46cy3ytl1qq3} not present in "Graph(StackedParentsProvider(bzrlib.repository._LazyListJoin(([CachingParentsProvider(None)], []))))".
<seb128> to July -> on July
<FourDollars> Laney: When I execute `bzr branch lp:ubuntu/precise/totem`, it returns "bzr: ERROR: Revision {package-import@ubuntu.com-20120109161939-wfwd46cy3ytl1qq3} not present in "Graph(StackedParentsProvider(bzrlib.repository._LazyListJoin(([CachingParentsProvider(None)], []))))".".
<mr_pouit> seb128: (June, noy july anyway)
<cjwatson> FourDollars: #bzr or #launchpad would be better to work on this
<FourDollars> cjwatson: Thanks.
<seb128> mr_pouit, oh, you are right ... well that's even earlier ;-)
<mitya57> xnox: I can reproduce the build failure on neither up-to-date quantal chroot nor up-to-date debian sid :(
<mitya57> xnox: can you?
<seb128> mr_pouit, sorry but I don't think that was badly communicated or handled, you could have replied to the email if that was creating issue, I wrote it for that, so we could sort out problems early :-(
<mr_pouit> seb128: It didn't seem to me that the thread was closed (micahg sent a list of used indicators, but you never replied)
<xnox> mitya57: my host is amd64, I have tried quantal sbuild i386 & amd64. I can't reproduce either.
<mr_pouit> seb128: anyway, we'll see with the release team for the exceptions to reintroduce the gtk2 indicators we need, I guess
<seb128> mr_pouit, oh, I discussed it with micahg on IRC back then I think but forgot to follow up on the list :-(
<mitya57> xnox: so there's something wrong on LP...
<xnox> mitya57: I will ask on #ubuntu-release
<seb128> mr_pouit, ok, that makes sense, I guess a ffe for that should be fine
<mitya57> xnox: joined
<micahg> seb128: you offered to upload the old stack renamed at the same time IIRC
<seb128> micahg, I doubt I would ever do that, I said I was fine with the idea
<seb128> micahg, we dropped gtk2 support because we don't have time to spend on gtk2 support, I doubt I would have offered to spend the same amonth of time bringing back old versions to universe for other flavors
<micahg> hrm, I can't seem to find the conversation on IRC...
<mvo> ev: awsome, thanks a lot, I address the excellent points later today :)
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: new live-build/livecd-rootfs uploaded; with any luck it will even work
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: thanks, will give it a spin later on tonight
<rvr_> Hi. I updated to Quantal and have problems with nvidia, so I cannot log in Unity. I'm trying to use nouveau, but apparently there is some issue with it too.
<rvr_> The nouveau driver loads. However, I think there is some issue with this: /dev/dri/card0: No such file or directory
<Debolaz> rvr_: Graphics seems to be a big clusterfrack at the moment. It's being worked on. :)
<rvr_> I booted Quantal from the install CD, and /dev/dri/card0 is created there
<mlankhorst> :s
<mlankhorst> rvr_: anything in xorg log?
<rvr_> mlankhorst, X fallbacks to fb. I've tried to enable modeset in grub, but didn't fix it  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1160806/
<mlankhorst> [    26.147] (EE) [drm] failed to open device
<mlankhorst> [    26.216] (EE) [drm] failed to open device
<rvr_> Yup
<mlankhorst> anything in dmesg?
<rvr_> mlankhorst, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1160810/
<mlankhorst> [   22.885528] nouveau: `192MB' invalid for parameter `vmalloc'
<mlankhorst> What does /proc/cmdline say?
<rvr_> Yeah, that options is another thing I tried, without luck
<mlankhorst> well it's causing nouveau not to load most likely..
<rvr_> BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-3.5.0-11-generic root=UUID=24acabd4-2fcb-49aa-9fb3-ce9e657d4465 ro quiet splash nomodeset vt.handoff=7
<mlankhorst> lspci?
<mlankhorst> sudo lspci -vvv
<rvr_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1160820/
<mlankhorst> it can use nouveau, it just won't? What's going on there..
<mlankhorst> is the nouveau module loaded?
<rvr_> This displays nothing "sudo lsmod | grep -i nou"
<mlankhorst> ok try sudo modprobe nouveau again
<mlankhorst> no parameters
<rvr_> Loaded
<mlankhorst> anything in dmesg?
<mlankhorst> did resolution change?
<rvr_> I'm in the X session, let me reload it
<nuclearbob> I've got a question about preseeding debian-installer if somebody can help with that
<cjwatson> nuclearbob: shoot
<nuclearbob> cjwatson, if I try to do a preseeded install from an alternate image that's a little old, I get a "no kernel modules were found" screen, and if I answer "yes" to continue the install without loading kernel modules, the install goes fine, so I want to know if I can preseed that answer
<cjwatson> Not really; the installer is dead software walking at that point
<nuclearbob> cjwatson, thanks, that's what I was afraid of
<cjwatson> If it works it's by sheer luck but I really don't want to encourage you to rely on this
<cjwatson> I mean, yes, technically you can preseed anna/no_kernel_modules to true
<nuclearbob> cjwatson, is there a recommended way to finish the install in that situation?
<cjwatson> But please don't
<cjwatson> Get a newer working image
<nuclearbob> good to know, thanks
<cjwatson> I do not recommend doing anything with an image in this state other than using it as an rsync base for something better :)
<ogra_> note that this happens occasionally during all development releases
<cjwatson> Yeah, but if it happens with a current daily we do want to know about it so we can fix it
<ogra_> (every time a new kernel abi is uploaded directly to the archive)
<ogra_> well, we could upload kernel and d-i only to proposed
<cjwatson> It's not usually necessary if the kernel is accepted vaguely mid-day-ish
<ogra_> and keep it caged until everything is ready
<ogra_> indeed
<cjwatson> And actually it has nothing to do with kernel/d-i desync anyway
<cjwatson> It has everything to do with d-i/seeds desync
<rvr_> No luck
<cjwatson> The old kernel binaries won't be removed until d-i has been rebuilt against the new ones, so there's no need to worry about staging the kernel and d-i simultaneously in -proposed
<ogra_> ah, k
<cjwatson> What happened this week was that Adam uploaded d-i and changed the seeds at the same time, which is usually plausible practice
<cjwatson> Unfortunately d-i then failed to build due to something that took until the next day to fix
<mlankhorst> rvr_: what does it say in dmesg?
<rvr_> mlankhorst: Do I search anything specific?
<mlankhorst> and erm.. echo 0000:01:00.0 > /sys/bus/pci/drivers/nouveau/bind
<mlankhorst> as root
<rvr_> bash: /sys/bus/pci/drivers/nouveau/bind: No such file or directory
<rvr_> mlankhorst: Module is loaded
<mlankhorst> find /sys -name nouveau?
<mlankhorst> blegh let me check
<rvr_> mlankhorst: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1160853/
 * mlankhorst suspects the mxm_wmi is important somehow
<rvr_> mlankhorst: :-/
<mlankhorst> rvr_: well i have no idea why it wouldn't register t he pci ops, could you try removing all drm and nouveau modules and modprobe drm with drm.debug=ff ?
<rvr_> mlankhorst, Ok, I'm finally using nouveau. I did two things. A) modprobe.d/nouveau-kms.conf "options nouveau modeset=1" B) Add Driver "nouveau" to default device in xorg.conf C) Removed nomodeset option in /etc/default/grub
<rvr_> mlankhorst, Thanks for your help anyway :)
<mlankhorst> why is nomodeset still default?!
<rvr_> mlankhorst, I added it manually
<mlankhorst> oh duh
<mlankhorst> nouveau won't work without modeset, the fallback is gone for ages..
<rvr_> mlankhorst, Without nomodeset wasn't working either, is something I tried (someone suggested that)
<mlankhorst> but nouveau modeset should be the defualt
<rvr_> The trick has been either Driver "nouveau" in xorg.conf and/or the modprobe rule
<mlankhorst> can you isolate it please?
<rvr_> Let's see
<mlankhorst> the b part should be a noop so most likely a
<kenvandine> barry, ping
<barry> kenvandine: pong
<kenvandine> barry, can you join #gwibber for a few minutes?
<rvr_> mlankhorst, This is a mistery now. I removed both modprobe setting and xorg.conf line, and I still get nouveau. That leaves nomodeset at grub.
<mlankhorst> yeah you shouldn't set nomodeset since it messes up grub..
<rvr_> But I added it trying to get nouveau :-/
<mlankhorst> nouveau has no nomodeset support any more..
<rvr_> mlankhorst, Ok, now I know. I had a modprobe rule from nvdia that blacklisted nouveau. I removed that file, but still had nomodeset in grub.
<mlankhorst> that's your problem..
<rvr_> mlankhorst, Removing both settings allowed nouveau to load correctly
<ambidextrvs> hi, could somebody help me to fix a booting issue in my computer with kernel 3.5.0-11? Am I in the correct forum, or where can I look for help?
<debfx> infinity: do you have any objections to me merging clang 3.1? I have updated your arm patches but I don't know if they still work as expected.
<infinity> debfx: They almost certainly don't work as expected, the merge is on my TODO, just hasn't been a top priority.  Bug me harder if I don't get to it in the next few days?
<ambidextrvs> I would like to contribute debuggin the issue but I would like some help on where to look, or how to approach this issue.
<debfx> ok :)
<slangasek> jamespage: hi, more information needed on your bug #1028458; can you take a look?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028458 in Ubuntu "iSCSI root based servers appear to fail to boot completely" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028458
<cjwatson> barry: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-debian/0.1.21+nmu1ubuntu1
<cjwatson> *phew*
<dylan-m> Hey, before I go off filing bug reports and predicting the end of the world, is there some ongoing effort to bridge ubuntu-online-accounts and gnome-online-accounts? It feels like it could turn into a bit of a mess, but I'm probably missing something important :)
<xnox> ev: there is no "admin1Codes.txt" anymore. There is admin2Codes.txt, but it doesn't look the same.
<xnox> ev: maybe we can just get away with "admin1CodesASCII.txt" ?
<xnox> ev: apperantly it's obsolete http://forum.geonames.org/gforum/posts/list/2902.page
<xnox> ev: so i'll make use of ASCII only then.
<ev> xnox: I have honestly no idea. It's been ages since I've looked at that code
<ev> your guess is as good as mine :-/
<xnox> =))))))
<xnox> ok
<xnox> ev: ERROR:  value too long for type character varying(6000)
 * xnox giggles
<xnox> shall I paste the name of that arabic village? =)
<james_w> dylan-m, #ubuntu-webapps is where the people for that hang out, you'd probably have a better chance of an answer there
<ev> xnox: probably shorter than some Welsh ones
<slangasek> ev: nah, the longest Welsh fits... I bet Arabic is cheating because it's unicode
<slangasek> llanfairleggomyeggopogostick is certainly < 6000 chars
<ev> slangasek: :)
<ev> Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch!
<slangasek> Are you sure that's the right spelling?  I'm rather confident that I had it right the first time
<ev> hahahaha
<ev> you're probably right
<ev> yay, specifying the value for fields in the URL on errors.ubuntu.com landed on trunk
<ogra_> slangasek, FYI http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/delivering-compiz-and-unity-on-the-next-wave-of-embedded-form-factors/ seems the upstream merge is done in time :)
<slangasek> ogra_: hallelujah
<slangasek> ev: ooh nice.  any documentation on how to use it?
<ev> slangasek: once it's landed on production, yes
<slangasek> ok :)
<ev> it'll be in the next state of errors.ubuntu.com report
<dylan-m> Ah, thanks james_w. I'll go listen in over there :)
<adam_g> mdeslaur: ping
<mdeslaur> adam_g: yes?
<adam_g> mdeslaur: actually wait, maybe you're the wrong person to ask. but was wondering why bug #1025544 never made it to precise-proposed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025544 in sqlalchemy (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] schema changes using sqlalchemy's sqlite dialect can fail when using reflection" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025544
<mdeslaur> adam_g: sorry, I don't know...I uploaded it, and it's in the SRU team's hands
<adam_g> mdeslaur: thanks
<infinity> adam_g: Looks accepted to me.  *cough*
<adam_g> infinity: according to where? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sqlalchemy tells me there isn't anything new in -proposed or -updates, apparently im looking in the wrong place?
<infinity> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sqlalchemy/0.7.4-1ubuntu0.1
<infinity> adam_g: (I accepted it seconds before I told you, hence the *cough*)
<adam_g> :)
<infinity> I have a soft spot for people named Adam.  Don't tell anyone.
<adam_g> wellll in that case... :) maybe you can help with another head scratcher: bug #1021530
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021530 in openvswitch (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] update to include stable fixes for OVS 1.4" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021530
<infinity> (Plus, I appreciate reviewing a 2-line and obvious code patch with a bazillion lines of test suite)
<infinity> adam_g: The reason that seems to have failed to get proper notice is cause your 1ubuntu1.2 upload wasn't built with -v1ubuntu1, thus missing the previous changelog entry, thus not having the bug closure, thus faking out our tools.
<infinity> adam_g: I'll promote it to -updates, cause it seems otherwise fine, but you'll have to close the bug yourself.
<infinity> adam_g: The next time you have to overwrite an upload to -proposed with a newer version, do remember to build with -v(version_in_updates/release) so you get the full changelog represented in .changes.
<adam_g> infinity: thats not entirely clear to me. the issue is that the original changelog that addressed the SRU bug was superceded by the FTBFS entry and no longer being tracked? or that my versinoing was wrong to begin with?
<adam_g> ah
<infinity> adam_g: Your versioning and changelog entries were both fine, but when you build with debuild or dpkg-buildpackage, you can pass "-v(old_version)", and everything between old_version and current_version lands in foo_source.changes
<infinity> adam_g: Anyhow, released to updates, feel free to close the bug manually explaining such.
<Laney> looks like it was sponsored by jamespage, btw.
<adam_g> infinity: okay, thank you. makes sense, thanks for clarification
<infinity> adam_g: Oh, and you can totally yell at your sponsor for that, Laney has a good point. ;)
<infinity> (Note that I make this mistake constantly, so it's less of a yelling at and more a good-natured ribbing)
<adam_g> 10-4
<infinity> Or, y'know, when I do remember to use -v, I forgot to include the effin' epoch, and spam everyone with a few megabytes of libreoffice changelog.
<infinity> Good times.
<Laney> always page through your changes file!
 * Laney runs
 * Laney (to the pub)
<infinity> Laney: Have you read a libreoffice changes file?  You tend to get bored with it long before you get to the actual changelog.
<stgraber> infinity: I actually had to go through that .changes again today as I was scrolling through the latest working build of openoffice on LP to figure how long it usually takes on powerpc ;)
<infinity> stgraber: *cough*
<infinity> stgraber: I'm sure I could get a LOSA to do some revisionist history to the DB so /+changelog isn't hideous.
<barry> cjwatson: nice
<smoser> slangasek, stgraber it would seem our assumption that 'start networking' was no logner needed was invalid.
<smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1031065
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1031065 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init-nonet runs 'start networking' explicitly" [Medium,Confirmed]
<stgraber> smoser: well, it doesn't change the fact that doing "start networking" is wrong ;)
<smoser> no. it does not. but i was hoping that it was fixed and that was no longer necessary.
<slangasek> smoser: are you sure your problem isn't that static-network-up is emitted before cloud-init-nonet is started?
<slangasek> ah, no, you check for that
<smoser> hm..
<smoser> juist thinking out loud.
<smoser> i saw this issue in overlayroot development when i was failing to mount / as 'ro' in the initramfs.
<smoser> that might give some information about what race brings this.
<slangasek> stgraber: should there ever be network interfaces in the container case?
<slangasek> maybe cloud-init-nonet itself should be checking for is-container
<slangasek> (that's not the name, but)
<stgraber> slangasek: not sure what you mean. If you're asking whether containers have standard network interfaces (ethX) and use ifupdown, then yes.
<slangasek> no, that path should trigger network-interface-container, which emits net-device-added INTERFACE=lo, which triggers network-interface
<slangasek> smoser: do you have an /etc/network/interfaces in this container, and does it specify the config for lo?
<slangasek> smoser: if lo is not in /etc/network/interfaces, /etc/init/network-interface.conf brings the interface up and emits the net-device-up event as a failsafe, but the call to 'ifup' itself will be a no-op, so /etc/network/if-up.d/upstart is never called and so static-network-up isn't emitted
<slangasek> smoser: does that description seem to fit what you're seeing / match what you have on disk?
<smoser> slangasek, there is a /etc/network/interfaces, yes.
<smoser> and it woudl be necessary.
<smoser> as cloud-init utilizes static-network-up
<smoser> which ... dont know if that woudl ever occur without it.
<slangasek> smoser: the question wasn't if /etc/network/interfaces exists, it's if it contains a configuration stanza for lo
<smoser> # The loopback network interface
<smoser> auto lo
<smoser> iface lo inet loopback
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> smoser: could you run 'sudo initctl log-priority info' in the host, then run the 'sudo lxc-start', and attach the resulting syslog output?
<smoser> slangasek, i just deleted instance. but i can do that in a bit.
<slangasek> tjaalton: fwiw seems your change to enable swrast gallium on armhf isn't working quite right; I notice today that my package is misbuilt, and the log shows the dri swrast
<slangasek> tjaalton: ah, spotted it; $(DEB_HOST_ARM_CPU) != armhf
<slangasek> er, DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU ;)
<tjaalton> slangasek: ah, ok
<slangasek> tjaalton: success - at least in terms of getting it to run
<slangasek> (performance is something else entirely)
<blaggard> hey, anyone home?
#ubuntu-devel 2012-08-23
<jbicha> wow, no amd64 builders for PPAs :(
<penguin42> wasn't the some maintenance of that due to happen this week?
<pitti> Good morning
<ajmitch> hi pitti
<tjaalton> slangasek: excellent, thanks. yeah I bet the peformance could be better..
<dholbach> good morning
<shadeslayer> wohooo
<shadeslayer> dholbach: morning :)
<dholbach> hey shadeslayer :)
<shadeslayer> o/
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: can't build ISO's, X stack went kaput :P
<shadeslayer> it's one problem after another it seems ;)
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/quantal_probs.html does not have X.org any more, though
<pitti> (it has mostly NBS binaries)
<shadeslayer> http://paste.kde.org/538460/ < most certainly broken ( try installing xserver-xorg-video-geode )
<shadeslayer> possibly something hasn't been published
<brendand> i am trying to do a net install on some servers, and it seems like since yesterday, dhcp configuration is failing
<brendand> is anyone aware of this issue?
<pitti> infinity: hm, still so many disabled PPA builders?
<seb128> pitti, I'm talking about it on #is
<seb128> pitti, we got 3 back
<seb128> pitti, so progress ;-)
<pitti> nice
<pitti> still, three amd64 builders which all build "private jobs"
<pitti> (and only 3 available)
<pitti> but as long as it's known, I'm fine
<seb128> pitti, they are working on it apparently, fingers crossed
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: I'm working my way through analysing a stack of failures right now, including that one
<cjwatson> My inbox was pretty unhappy this morning
<dholbach> ev, mpt: it'd be great if you could have a look at http://benjaminkerensa.com/2012/08/23/canonical-privacy-policy-for-zeitgeist-is-insufficient and see if there's anything you would add
<seb128> dholbach, ev, mpt: the title seems misleading, the guy is rather concerned about the "datas sent to canonical" part and unsure if that includes zg datas since they are in the same settings panel
<dholbach> yes - that's what I tried to explain in the last comment
<ev> seb128, dholbach: I could be mistaken, but I think mpt was already working with Andrew Sinclair on the text
<mpt> Yes, he's just being very slow.
<seb128> it would probably be good if somebody commented on the launchpad bug saying that it's being worked?
<mpt> sure
<seb128> mpt, thanks
<seb128> pitti, 9 amd64 builders
<pitti> I saw \o/
<hrw> question: how to make package which uses cdbs to generate dbgsym?
<seb128> hrw, dbgsym are nothing to do with the source, just install pkg-create-dbgsym
<seb128> it will create the ddebs for you
<hrw> seb128: if package calls dh_strip
<seb128> right
<hrw> ah.. wrong build I looked at. sorry
<rsalveti> tjaalton: mind reviewing bug 1040405 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040405 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "xorg doesn't try to autoload the omap xorg driver at omapdrm enabled devices" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040405
<rsalveti> there's also another patch for xf86-video-omap to properly use the platformProbe call
<rsalveti> which makes the probe a lot easier, and without conflicting with the fbdev device (which checks for the platform slot before initializing itself, same as it was doing already for pci based devices)
<rsalveti> tjaalton: and at the bottom of bug 1015292 you can see the debdiff for xf86-video-omap
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1015292 in xf86-video-omap (Ubuntu Quantal) "X11 crashes with seg fault when running QT5 based applications on a Pandaboard with the SGX driver" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015292
<rsalveti> would be nice if you could also review it
<rsalveti> just tested both at my panda, and worked nicely (by autoloading just the omap driver)
<dholbach> dpm, ogra_: do you think you can update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Timetable with a session title? :)
<dpm> dholbach, yeah, let me think of something later on today. TBH, I got inspired by ogra_'s title, so I thought I'd use a similar one until I've got something set up ;)
<dholbach> yeah, I know - ogra_ is a very deep source of inspiration
<dholbach> :-P
<dpm> absolutely
<bdrung> dholbach: should i add ubuntu-packaging-guide to packaging-dev?
<dholbach> bdrung, ah yes - if that's possible, that'd be great
<tjaalton> rsalveti: great, thanks
<bdrung> dholbach: shouldn't we get this package into debian, too?
<dholbach> if anybody wants to help with doing that, that'd be great - yeah :)
<bdrung> dholbach: i offer my help
<dholbach> :-D
<Andy80> dholbach, hi! even this link http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/singlehtml from this page http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tools/packaging/ is broken.
<dholbach> Andy80, yes - it's on my list :)
<Andy80> cool ;)
<Andy80> dholbach, I'm re-reading for the *n time the packaging docs. There is a python application that I use that is not available in repositories yet. I want to start with that... it's just a simple one :) p.s: no, not telling the name in public or someone faster than me will package it removing me the motivation to learn :D
<dholbach> Andy80, keep your motivation, but ask if you run into trouble, ok? :)
<Andy80> dholbach, sure :)
<Andy80> the first thing I don't understand is this command: bzr dh-make hello 2.7 hello-2.7.tar.gz - what it does exactly? What if my source code is not on bazaar?
<dholbach> Andy80, AFAIK it will import the hello-2.7.tar.gz tarball you have on your disk locally into a fresh and new bzr branch
<dholbach> and give you some initial packaging
<dholbach> if it's not clear enough in the guide, please file a bug :)
<Andy80> dholbach, ah ok. yeas it makes sense... I mean, the person who is packaging is supposed to upload the sources and debian/ folder on launchpad so other people can check it.
<Andy80> I will just read for now since as I told you my app is not compilable with "make", it's a Python app and I want to read the differences explained here: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/python-packaging.html before executing any command
<Andy80> (other than this I'm not at home right now and I don't have my .gnupg and .ssh with me .... so better not to upload anything)
<dholbach> you can build it locally by running: bzr bd
<Andy80> ok, I finish reading in the mean time, thanks :)
<TJ-> Have there been any changes from Precise onwards that would affect mmap() - in particular that could cause it to run out of VMA on amd64 for quite modest requests to map a device file?
<Guest47874> !lista
<ubottu> Guest47874: No warez here! This is not a file sharing channel (or network); read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type Â« /msg ubottu !bot Â». If you're looking for a channel, see Â« /msg ubottu !alis Â».
<Andy80> about this document http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/python-packaging.html - to package a Python application I do have to use dh_python2 instead of dh_make ? Does my app need to have a setup.py already? What if it's just one *.py file and I need the debian/install to copy it to /usr/bin folder? Thanks
<cjwatson> dh_python2 and dh_make are quite different categories of things, despite the similar name
<cjwatson> dh_python2 is a tool run as part of the execution of debian/rules
<cjwatson> dh_make is a tool that writes out template packaging files for you to modify, including debian/rules
<cjwatson> if it's just one .py file, you should likely install it by hand in an override_dh_auto_install: rule in debian/rules rather than listing it in debian/install, since dh_install (which processes debian/install) will preserve the extension and policy says that programs in /usr/bin/ should not have a scripting language extension such as .py
<tjaalton> slangasek: uploaded mesa, libxatracker linking seems ok to me at least on amd64
<mr_pouit> seb128: hey, you wrote about indicators only in your mail ("they will still keep gtk2 versions of
<mr_pouit> the libraries")
<mr_pouit> seb128: yet libido is gone for gtk2 I think
<Andy80> cjohnston, thanks in the mean time! I need to go home, I email me the chat history and I'll continue it later. Se you later and thanks :)
<seb128> mr_pouit, well, I meant public libraries (the ones for applications to use, like libappindicator)
<mr_pouit> (yeah, of course, ido isn't a public library in /usr/lib I guess)
<mr_pouit> meh :(
<mr_pouit> seb128: any more surprise? :P (so I know how many packages I need to reintroduce for Lubuntu/Xubuntu)
<seb128> mr_pouit, surprise: you can count on any indicator-*-gtk2 to go away if there are still some in quantal
<mr_pouit> seb128: yeah, I know, but any more surprise starting with lib* ? ;-)
<xnox> bryceh: are you ~bryce? anyway love your e2fsprogs upload =)
<seb128> mr_pouit, no, is libido even having an user out of indicator-sound?
<seb128> mr_pouit, but you are right, it should probably have been made a private lib to indicators
<seb128> mr_pouit, sorry about that
<mr_pouit> (no big issue, that's just one more thing to do before indicator-sound-gtk2 is back)
<smoser> anyone else seen delayed response on middle mouse paste in ubuntu?
<smoser> its happening more an dmore that i highlight copy and something (likely from firefox) , hit middle mouse to paste it, hit enter, and then the paste happens.
<smoser> this often results in me trying to execute whatever i copied and pasted rather than giving it as input to some command.
<tjaalton> rsalveti: the changes looked good, uploaded
<rsalveti> tjaalton: great, thanks!
<mvo> ev: if you have time for the software-center polkit branch review that woudl rock, I would love to get it in today
<ev> mvo: will do!
<vibhav> Are there any WNPP bugs in Ubuntu?
<cjwatson> "needs-packaging" is the equivalent
<cjwatson> (tag)
<vibhav> cjwatson: yeah, but are there any "RFA" bugs?
<cjwatson> Not as far as I know.
<vibhav> thanks
<xnox> vibhav: all packages are team maintained in ubuntu. You can look for "needs-packaging" tag & merges.ubuntu.com for things to do.
<xnox> as well as *wishlist* bugs, cause that's usually new feature requests.
<slangasek> pitti: (grr) the retracer invalidated my bug because it was a package that depended on initscripts and it didn't have current dbgsyms for initscripts (bug #1040680)
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1040680 could not be found
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> can I send a package in Upstream when I fix some bugs (not security)?
<rsalveti> hallyn: hey, mind reviewing the merge proposal https://code.launchpad.net/~fboudra/qemu-linaro/new-upstream-release-1.1.50-2012.08-0ubuntu1/+merge/120592 ?
<rsalveti> fabo worked on updating the qemu to the latest one available from linaro
<rsalveti> and would be nice if someone else could also review and test it
<rsalveti> so we can try to land at quantal asap
<pitti> slangasek: it currently invalidates bugs if the retraced stack trace is bad and there are obsolete or missing packages; I guess in this case the retracing failed due to another reason, though (sometimes the memory is just too corrupted, and sometimes I have the feeling gdb is just not trying hard enough..)
<pitti> hmm, libdbus doesn't like to be symbolic?
<slangasek> pitti: ah, ok
<hallyn> rsalveti: sure
<rsalveti> hallyn: thanks!
<TJ-> Has anyone seen/heard of problems with the nvidia driver 295+ failing some mmap() requests?
<hallyn> rsalveti: I'm not sure, but debian/patches/define_AT_EMPTY_PATH.patch *may* not be needed any more.  The fix to libc may have gotten into q.
<hallyn> (no biggie )
<rsalveti> hm, nice
<hallyn> rsalveti: is dropping --disable-darwin done on purpose?
<hallyn> (i don't knwo what it is :)
<rsalveti> I think it got removed from upstream
<hallyn> rsalveti: ok - i see no problems with it.
<hallyn> (commented)
<infinity> hallyn: The fix is definitely in Q, yes.
<infinity> hallyn: (and uploaded to P)
<hallyn> rsalveti: infinity: yeah just saw it in changelog
<hallyn> rsalveti: so you can drop that patch if you like.  but doesn't hurt anything
<rsalveti> yeah, great
<rsalveti> thanks for the review
<hallyn> np
<hallyn> rsalveti: and, confirmed i just pulled it out of qemu-kvm build on quantal and that worked fine too.  (\o/)
<rsalveti> hallyn: awesome, thanks!
<stgraber> hallyn: just checking, have you seen my PMs and messages to #ubuntu-server? (I remember you had issues with PMs in the past ;))
<bigon> is there still any login in splitting geoclue package in geoclue and geoclue provider?
<hallyn> stgraber: oh, i may not have.  i'm back to using irssi, but byobu has been crshing for me every few weeks at night, and did again last night
<hallyn> i gots logs, lemme check
<seb128> bigon, login in?
<bigon> seb128: mmmh?
<seb128> bigon, I don't understand the question
<seb128> bigon, what "is there still any login in..." mean?
<hallyn> stgraber: sorry, i guess i may need to add a lxc-start-ephemeral test to the testsuite
<bigon> mehhh
<bigon> seb128: s/login/logic
<hallyn> stgraber: i'm quite sure i pushed the lxc-attach v2 changes.  i'll substitute v3 today or tomorrow.
<bigon> time to go home I guess
<seb128> bigon, ooooh
<hallyn> stgraber: do you need anything more from me before ff?
<seb128> bigon,
<seb128>   * debian/control
<seb128>     - Split the gypsy, gpsd, and gsmloc providers out into
<seb128>       a separate source package, geoclue-providers, to simplify the
<seb128>       MIR reducing the number of build depends.
<seb128>     - Removed ofono-dev and libgypsy-dev build depends
<seb128> bigon, does geoclue still use ofono-dev and libgypsy-dev?
<seb128> bigon, if the reply is "yes" so the reason still stand
<stgraber> hallyn: sorry, was blind, I didn't see you indeed pushed it, so nothing needed on your side
<bigon> do we want these provider? in debian gypsy is not built (due to the huge security fail that it contained), gpsd is not even building iirc
<bigon> the only remaning one is gsmloc
<seb128> kenvandine, tedg: ^ do you know?
<hallyn> stgraber: cool, thanks.
<seb128> bigon, I don't know, I guess not
<tedg> I don't really know, but I imagine it'll be something we have to fix at some point.
<tedg> I mean, if it's disabled today, that's fine.
<bigon> the thing is that I'm not sure about the mismatch of version between geoclue and geoclue-provider pkg
<seb128> bigon, it just means nobody has been maintaining and updating geoclue-provider
<seb128> we should probably just drop it
<bigon> I also guess that the main geoclue pkg should be remerged with the debian one
<seb128> ok
<roaksoax> Hi gusy I have a packaging question. 'maas' currently Depends on 'maas-provision', however, the newer 'maas' I'll upload no longer does. So I was wondering what should be in debian/control in order for 'maas-provision' to be uninstalled on upgrade
<cjwatson> roaksoax: Is maas-provision intended to be removed from the archive?
<roaksoax> cjwatson: yes
<cjwatson> roaksoax: Then Conflicts: maas-provision + Replaces: maas-provision
<cjwatson> You might need Provides as well if other packages currently depend on maas-provision (but you often don't)
<roaksoax> cjwatson: right, so that's what I was thinking, but manually testing I got something like "can't remove maas-provision because maas (older version) still depends on it"
<slangasek> roaksoax: manually testing with dpkg, or with apt?
<roaksoax> slangasek: dpkg
<slangasek> roaksoax: wrong tool :)
<slangasek> roaksoax: you either need to pass a slew of additional options to dpkg to accurately test this, or you should test using apt
<roaksoax> slangasek: alright! I'll get it tested with apt! Thanks for the info :)
<cjwatson> additional options> -B, I think
<cjwatson> But yeah, use apt
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: re : <cjwatson> My inbox was pretty unhappy this morning > haha :D
<mlankhorst> can xf86-video-omap be moved into main?
<shadeslayer> mlankhorst: file a MIR request?
<ogra_> that shouldnt need a mir
<BadDesign> What is the UTC release time for Ubuntu 12.04.1?
<infinity> Sure it should.  It's new code.
<infinity> Not that it'll be a hard MIR to process.
<mlankhorst> it was a continuation from omapfb I think
<ogra_> right
<infinity> It's basically a rewrite, from what I understand.
<infinity> But meh.
<infinity> Either way, I think it's an obvious promotion.
<infinity> How about we do an informal MIR.
<infinity> jdstrand: Do you have security concerns about promoting the X driver for omap* ?
<jdstrand> infinity: not especially other than to ask who the upstream is and how responsive are they?
<cjwatson> BadDesign: We never hand out release times in advance.
<infinity> jdstrand: Upstream is Rob Clark from TI, plus the general X usual suspects.
<ogra_> its the same person maintaining the omap4 binary driver at TI
<cjwatson> BadDesign: Largely because we generally simply don't set a time.
<jdstrand> infinity: so we can expect support in the event of a security concern?
<ogra_> ++
<infinity> jdstrand: Absolutely.
<jdstrand> ok, then no, I don't have conerns
<mlankhorst> great :)
 * ogra_ hugs jdstrand 
<infinity> Yeah.  Alright.  And I already reviewed packaging and such when I synced it from Debian.
<infinity> So.
<infinity> There.  MIR done.
<infinity> :P
<jdstrand> heh
<ogra_> :D
<mlankhorst> awesome
 * infinity goes to find some place to seed it.
<infinity> Actually, it should get pulled in without seeding, if it's in drivers-all on arm*
<ogra_> infinity, i think mlankhorst planned to have it in the -all package for xorg
<infinity> And if it's not, that's a bug.
<infinity> mlankhorst: Is it in drivers-all already?
<mlankhorst> well I prepared it, I can't push directly
<infinity> mlankhorst: I can, though.  Where do I find it?
<ogra_> i think tjaalton is on it
<infinity> Oh, snazzy.
<infinity> Well, if I know it's going to land soon, I'll just do the promotion.
<infinity> mlankhorst: Promoted.  Please make sure that whoever's sponsoring that change does it soon, so component-mismatches doesn't spend the next day yelling at me.
<mlankhorst> infinity: oh if you want you can do it now
<mlankhorst> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-xorg/debian/xorg.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu
<infinity> mlankhorst: Want to commit a dch -r to that, and give me a source package to sponsor?
<infinity> mlankhorst: (I don't have commit to pkg-xorg)
<mlankhorst> oh sure
<mlankhorst> infinity: done
<infinity> mlankhorst: Thanks, that'll do.
<infinity> mlankhorst: Uploaded.
<mlankhorst> yay
<mlankhorst> time to update my panda to quantal I suppose :)
<goddard> Contributing to the Ubuntu Wiki is a pain
<goddard> Any plans to change it?
<mlankhorst> howso? just create a account?
<goddard> you would think it is that easy
<goddard> but when i last contributed i had to actually download a bzr package, edit it, build html, and upload it
<goddard> I did some contributions to the packaging guide
<slangasek> wiki.ubuntu.com doesn't involve any of those things; what wiki are you talking about?
<xnox> goddard: well yes, packaging guide and e.g. server guide etc. do require that, because they are not hosted on the wiki, but rather available in a few formats & translations
<xnox> goddard: help.ubuntu.com/community and wiki.ubuntu.com can be edited directly in the web-browser.
<goddard> ahh i see
<goddard> is there a reason why the packaging guide isn't on the wiki as well?
<mlankhorst> goddard: because they have to be shipped separately and not only to the wiki :)
<xnox> goddard: because packaging guide can be translated, and the wiki does not support translations.
<TJ-> A recent change to the nvidia DKMS drivers package has broken another package such that it won't conceivably ever work again. What's the procedure in such cases?
<infinity> TJ-: That might need to be slightly less vague.
<TJ-> infinity: bug #1039916 ... look at the last comment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039916 in nvclock (Ubuntu) "Nvidia driver causing SIGSEGV in nvclock and smartdimmer" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039916
<infinity> TJ-: But if it's "some third-party tool relied on a feature that the upstream binary driver no longer provides", the solution would be to (A) remove the third-party tool from the archive, and (B) make the nvidia packages conflict with it.
<infinity> Oh, in precise, we wouldn't do the removal bit.
<infinity> But certainly, having the driver conflict with the tool, if there's really no way to fix the tool, would work.
<TJ-> OK... it'll affect Q too of course
<infinity> TJ-: You might also want to talk to Marc, since it was his patch that broke things (now that I've read the whole bug report).
<infinity> TJ-: But if it's a tradeoff between dimmer control and priviledge escalation, with no way to compromise on fixing both, I suspect security wins.
<TJ-> infinity: Yes, I was planning on emailing him. I think the patch is a good one - nvclock is using not-quite-approved hacks to do its thing, so I think nvclock has to give
<TJ-> infinity: There is an alternative project developing for an nvida backlight DKMS kernel module that - when/if it works - does things properly with a /sys/class/backlight/ interface... so I think that should be the preferred route
<infinity> TJ-: That does seem to be the saner way forward, yeah.
<TJ-> infinity: besides which I think nvclock has been abandoned by its creator since 2009/10
<TJ-> infinity: thanks; I'll figure out who to contact and what to do to let users of nvclock aware and remove it for Q
<infinity> TJ-: I can remove it from the archive for Q right now, if you think that's the Right Thing To Do, but it'll still need the nvidia-* packaging updated to conflict and force removal on upgrades.
<TJ-> infinity: Let me check first... if nvidia proprietary isn't used by nouveau or the old nv is, nvclock may still work
<TJ-> infinity: And all I really wanted was the backlight dimming *sigh* :p
<nabam> Not certain if this is the correct channel to ask this, but in using patch, is it a possibility to ignore a specific line?
<Andy80> I'm working on packaging a project and I want to put my file on LP. Is it ok if I push using this url: bzr push lp:~andreagrandi/PACKAGENAME/packaging ?
<alesage> Andy80, sounds fine--if not I've been doing it wrong :)
<Andy80> alesage: I already tried with bzr push lp:~andreagrandi/PACKAGENAME but it wasn't enough.... maybe the last part is mandatory
<Andy80> :)
<Andy80> let's try...
<Andy80> uhm..... LP says noooooo :\
<Andy80> actually "PROJECTNAME" doesn't exist...
<Andy80> maybe I should use +junk ?
<Andy80> but it's so odd name...
<roaksoax> slangasek: so the conflicts/replaces works. However, what about some of the dependencies of maas-provision (dnsmasq, tftp-hpa specifically). I'm currently listing them under conflicts/replaces too but don't know whether that's the correct approach since they only overlap functionality (and not files, etc)
<Andy80> ok, pushed in junk
<xnox> Andy80: bzr push lp:~/ubuntu/quantal/PACKAGENAME/packaging
<Andy80> xnox: it's not a package already available in Ubuntu (I'm not a MOTU or something like that neither). I'm just getting started. It's a simple Python utility and I'd like to package it. I've put it in my /+junk/
<slangasek> roaksoax: you certainly shouldn't conflict/replace with those, they're not obsolete packages and users can legitimately install them on the same host
<slangasek> roaksoax: oh, or do they fight over the ports?
<xnox> Andy80: that's ok then. you could try pushing, it should create a new package name.... I think... maybe not.
<roaksoax> slangasek: they fight over ports
<slangasek> roaksoax: ok; a bidirectional conflicts is allowed there - see tftpd-hpa, which already Conflicts: tftpd
<xnox> I presume EXTLINUX is the new bootloader thing...
 * xnox is confused why I am having it on non-efi system, but ok =)
<roaksoax> slangasek: cool, thanks!!
<slangasek> xnox: no, EXTLINUX is a very old bootloader thing
<slangasek> efilinux is the EFI one
<xnox> slangasek: i now ponder why did I install it back in january
<seb128> ev, is errors.ubuntu.com known to have issues? it stays on "Loading" it seems
<stgraber> seb128: try /?launchpad=false
<seb128> in fact worked after a retry but it's very slow
<seb128> stgraber, thanks
<xnox> me wonders if I can "just do it" bug 1038577 is annoying
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1038577 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Quantal) "p11-kit: duplicate configured module: gnome-keyring.module: /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/pkcs11/gnome-keyring-pkcs11.so" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038577
<xnox> ... just needs rm maintainer script...
<slangasek> xnox: of course you can
<slangasek> I would have myself, but I wasn't sure whether it was better to rename the conffile back to the original name, or deal with the move
<xnox> slangasek: i'm off to find the correct branch....
<xnox> slangasek: hmm... did upstream rename it? did debian rename it? decisions... decisions... decisions...
#ubuntu-devel 2012-08-24
<pitti> Good morning
<dholbach> good morning
<shadeslayer> eeeppp
<shadeslayer> dholbach: hi!
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: DVD images for Kubuntu 12.04 are missing :(
<shadeslayer> dholbach: could you review a sqlite transition diff?
<dholbach> I'm not sure I'm an expert, but sure
<shadeslayer> dholbach: http://paste.kde.org/538790/
<dholbach> hum, how did it offer a -sqlite2 and -sqlite3 package before?
<shadeslayer> dholbach: I don't understand ...
<dholbach> ah no, nevermind
<dholbach> hum, I do wonder though why we need libsqlite0-dev and libsqlite3-dev as build-deps
 * shadeslayer checks logs
<shadeslayer> dholbach: checking for SQLite 2 driver headers... /usr/include/
<shadeslayer> seems like something requires it
<dholbach> isn't that the plugin which is removed?
<shadeslayer> that's from the old logs
<dholbach> aha
<shadeslayer> ( oh cool, linuxplumbersconf uses summit )
<shadeslayer> oh, that's wrong ...
<shadeslayer> dholbach: I assumed libsqlite-dev will pull in libsqlite3-dev
<shadeslayer> so that'll need fixing in the control file
<bkerensa> gnight folks!
<dholbach> shadeslayer, I'm just doing a test-build without libsqlite0-dev
<shadeslayer> right :)
<dholbach> ah no, seems necessary
<dholbach> dh_install: gambas2-gb-db-sqlite3 missing files (usr/lib/gambas2/gb.db.sqlite3.*), aborting
<dholbach> weird
<shadeslayer> indeed
<shadeslayer> I was looking at the configure output myself
<shadeslayer> and since I made it dep on libsqlite-dev, it worked ( since that pulls in libsqlite0-dev which the package picks up as sqlite3 )
<shadeslayer> dholbach: gb.db.sqlite3/configure seems like magic
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: on holiday and very shortly off-net - somebody else can work it out
<shadeslayer> sure
<shadeslayer> it seems like everyone who would know how to fix this is on a holiday :P
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Quantal Quetzal development | Archive: Feature Freeze | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/  | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<ev> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Quantal Quetzal development | Archive: Feature Freeze | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/  | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: ev
<Daviey> jelmer: hey, are there plans to fix debian bug 634848 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 634848 in python-debian "debian.changelog: add method that gives list of closed bugs" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/634848
<jelmer> Daviey: not that I'm aware of
<jelmer> Daviey: (I'm not involved with python-debian upstream)
<Daviey> jelmer: oh, sorry.. i thought you were
<larsweb> i am trying to assign a group write-access to a folder using the "setfacl" tool. but it doesnt seem to work? does anyone know this?
<xnox> larsweb: support is in #ubuntu or askubuntu.com this is developer channel =)
<hyperair> this is weird. how does chromium-browser even build?
<hyperair> it just bails out saying "tar: This does not look like a tar archive"
<xnox> hyperair: which one? the one in the archive or the one from daily ppa?
<xnox> the former crashes, the later ftbfs/out-of-date
<xnox> s/later/latter/
<hyperair> xnox: the archive one.
<hyperair> chromium-browser-18.0.1025.168~r134367
<hyperair> i don't even know how i have the binary installed -- i unpack it, there's a tarball inside the source directory, which is unpacked
<hyperair> and then the debian/rules doesn't even attempt to unpack the tarball
<hyperair> aha, it looks like i can force this to work by running debian/rules pre-build
<xnox> hyperair: i'd expect you to use 20.0.1132.47~r144678-0ubuntu5 or is this for precise?
<mterry> mvo, ping about https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/update-manager/stop-update/+merge/120318  - I'd like to get it in this next week before UIF
<mvo> mterry: sure, let me have a look
<xnox> mvo: what's the best way to submit patches to debtagshw? debian BTS + CC you for review?
<mvo> xnox: yeah
<mvo> xnox: I can commit them to git
<mvo> xnox: out of curiosity, what is the patch about?
<xnox> mvo: python3 support
<xnox> mvo: i need to add dep8 test runner and i will submit
<mterry> mvo, we've got time before UIF for me to add a test
<mterry> mvo, I'll try to do that if I fail for some reason, will merge to make UIF
<mvo> mterry: cool
<mvo> xnox: please note that I will need py2 support for s-c as it looks like xapian will not make it for py3
<xnox> mvo: it supports both =)
<mvo> xnox: sweet
<xnox> mvo: 2.6 or better required including all the way through 3.X =)
<Andy80> dholbach: hi! Maybe there is a typo here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative or I'm just noob (more probable). I try to branch some packages and I always get the error that the branch doesn't exist. For example: bzr branch ubuntu:libboost1.46-dev
<Andy80> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/libboost1.46-dev/".
<dholbach> ah, that's a binary package name, not a source package name
<dholbach> apt-cache showsrc <package>      should tell you which source package it belongs too
<dholbach> good point
<Andy80> dholbach: another possible problem.... even if you do: apt-cache showsrc libboost1.46-dev - you can get: W: Unable to locate package libboost1.46-dev
<dholbach> are you on precise?
<Andy80> dholbach: I suspect because that particular version is only available in quantal
<Andy80> and not in precise
<Andy80> yes
<Andy80> do I need Quantal to fix those packages? If yes I can't do :(
<dholbach> ah no, it should exist in precise too
<Andy80> maybe with a different version
<dholbach> ah, do you have a deb-src line enabled in /etc/apt/sources.lists?
<dholbach> or in software-properties you need to check 'sources'
<dholbach> otherwise apt only knows about binary packages :)
<Andy80> let me check...
<Andy80> good point
<dholbach> I'll see if that's covered in our docs
<dholbach> filed bug 1041256
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041256 in Ubuntu Packaging Guide "Cover 'deb-src' line in getting-set-up" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041256
<Andy80> dholbach: ok, my fault... it was because of the sources not enable. Now I get a loooooong output for the command: apt-cache showsrc libboost1.46-dev
<Andy80> which one is the line that I need?
<dholbach> the first one
<Andy80> cool
<Andy80> yeah! It's branching :)
<dholbach> fantastico :)
<Andy80> at least I'm testing the whole procedure/howto ;)
<Andy80> by the way nice job! It's exactly what we need to make people start contributing
<dholbach> yeah, let's see how it goes :)
<Andy80> ok now I feel even more stupid :D I can't find the typo in the debian/control ;) you say "libboost1.46-dev (binary): unused-override spelling-error-in-description" but there are many descriptions... and I cannot find the "unused-override"
<dholbach> haha ok, sorry - my mistake (again)
<dholbach> lintian finds mistakes in packages
<dholbach> you can override some of the warnings with a lintian-override
<dholbach> it seems in this case an override was added, but it's not needed
<Andy80> I still don't get it... it's because I don't know this "lintian-override". Which line is "bugged" in this case? And how should it be?
<dholbach> it's a bad example I picked for the list - basically it went like this: at some stage there was a mistake in the package, lintian complained, the maintainer felt it was not a problem, so they added an override, so lintian would not complain any more - it seems like this problem in the past is gone now
<dholbach> so the override is not needed any more
<dholbach> there's a line in debian/rules where the spelling-error-in-description override is added - that line can be safely removed
<dholbach> Andy80, I'm afraid you picked one of the harder problems :)
<dholbach> but I just checked - this line can be removed
<dholbach> have a great weekend everyone
<dholbach> and good luck Andy80 - I'm sure there are others in here who can help you out if you should get stuck
<Andy80> dholbach: while you were checking the problem I worked and committed the second one https://code.launchpad.net/~andreagrandi/ubuntu/quantal/kdevelop-custom-buildsystem/typo-fix/+merge/121223 :D
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> see you around! :)
<Andy80> yeah I keep going :) it's easy ;)
<Andy80> arghh..... I always get the weird problems...
<Andy80> I saw another typo after I ran bzr lp-propose
<Andy80> and I tried to run it again and I get this: bzr: ERROR: There is already a branch merge proposal: https://code.launchpad.net/~andreagrandi/ubuntu/quantal/kdevelop-custom-buildsystem/typo-fix/+merge/121223
<Andy80> oh it's ok now
<SpamapS> so, as an nvidia user, do I just have to wait until Nvidia drops new drivers to dist-upgrade?
<SpamapS> (in quantal)
<xnox> Andy80: by the way, boost1.46 is superseeded by boost1.49 in quantal.
<xnox> Andy80: 1.46 is pending removal in quantal.
<Andy80> xnox: oh... well... just refuse the mp
<Andy80> ok, dinner time, I'll continue it later
<infinity> xnox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1164755/
<xnox> infinity: damn it!
<xnox> infinity: I am off to give ben a kick
<infinity> xnox: Did you miss having build-deps in the transition tracker?
<infinity> xnox: Might make some sense, from the POV of possible ORed false positives, but in the above case, only two of those are ORed deps (and should be fixed anyway), and the rest aren't.
<xnox> infinity: I was fixing some of these in Debian, where there are errorous build-deps on a "libboost1.42-dev | libboost-dev"
<xnox> infinity: will adjust the tracker to make it right.
<infinity> This could be why I never use trackers.
<infinity> And just trust the archive to not lie to me when I ask it questions.
<infinity> Questions like "yo, archive, does stuff still depend on this thing that I want to remove?"
<infinity> And it's all like "dude, don't do it, you have so much to live for."
<infinity> And it all goes downhill from there.
<infinity> Until the archive and I share a case of beer and reminisce about old times.
 * xnox is taking notes on effective AA
 * xnox ponders how mumble ever manages to work at all
<ogra_> it steals unicorns and pixie dust from btrfs
<ogra_> thats why btrfs never gets finished btw
<Debolaz> Of course, the real reason is that they have no goals.
<ogra_> the unicorns ?
<Debolaz> Yes.
 * penguin42 notes that a unicorn as a goalee would be messy; it would always catch the ball on it's horn
<xnox> infinity: you have now send me down the path of taking (!) patches from asterisk to fix (!!) zeroc-ice for (!!!) java7 compat to merge (!V) mumble to remove (V) boost.
<micahg> xnox: welcome to being a core dev :)
<infinity> xnox: It's not too late to remove yourself from the group.
<ogra_> infinity, !
 * xnox decisions decisions decisions
<Andy80> what does this command exactly: bzr bd -- -S      ?
<micahg> Andy80: builds a source package from a bzr branch
<slangasek> Andy80: it creates a temporary bzr export of your current branch (including any uncommitted changes) to a temp directory in ../build-area, then invokes dpkg-buildpackage with any arguments after the -- (in this case, -S, which means "only do a source build")
<Andy80> micahg, slangasek I found it in this contest https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative - so basically after I execute "bzr lp-propose" I also execute those two command to send the package to Debian, right?
<slangasek> Andy80: what two commands?
<slangasek> ah, bzr bd -- -S + submittodebian?  yes; the first is not actually part of sending it to Debian, it only verifies the source package can be built; you should also verify that your *binary* package builds before submitting to Debian
<Andy80> yes
<slangasek> Andy80: so I think you should run 'bzr bd' without the -S at all, here
<Andy80> ah ok
<Andy80> luckly I haven't sent it yet
<Andy80> it's still building :(
<Andy80> I'm on a slow netbook...
<Andy80> and... that "submittodebian" does all work :P ? I mean the submitting...
<slangasek> it automates as much of it as it can, then drops you into an editor so you can compose the bug report to Debian
<pedahzur> hallyn: around?
<Andy80> slangasek: it looks like something went wrong (executing: bzr bd) http://pastebin.com/Gtx9G835
<pedahzur> soren: around?
<slangasek> Andy80: yes; that command tries to build the package, and you need to have the build dependencies installed to build the package
<slangasek> Andy80: let me have a closer look at that wiki page; maybe I'm sending you down a wrong path
<Andy80> slangasek: yeah, I understand the missing deps, but... wasn't there a method to automatically install all the deps before building the package?
<slangasek> Andy80: have you gone through http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html ?
<slangasek> i.e.: have you set up pbuilder?
<Andy80> I should have..... let me check (I don't remember if I did it on this netbook or on the office PC)
<slangasek> Andy80: so you should be able to run 'bzr bd --builder=pdebuild'
<slangasek> and that should take care of the dependencies for you
<Andy80> slangasek: ok it looks like I didn't run pbuilder-dist. On my office PC it was ok, here I get this: andrea@andrea-1215P:~/Documents/sviluppo/Ubuntu/gambas2$ pbuilder-dist pangolin create
<Andy80> Warning: Unknown distribution "pangolin". Do you want to continue [y|N]? n
<slangasek> pangolin isn't the distribution name; the name is 'precise'
<Andy80> oh sorry -.-
<Andy80> how I'm stupid -.-
<Andy80> ok... it's getting stuff ;)
<hallyn> pedahzur: what's up?
<Andy80> so I'll run 'bzr bd --builder=pdebuild' and it will build the package for "precise"
<slangasek> Andy80: I believe that's correct
<pedahzur> hallyn: I added the PPA from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/+archive/backports, but trying to upgrade qemu-kvm tells me seabios and vgabios are too old.  Did I do something stupid, or do I need to raise a bug to have seabios and vgabios backported as well?
<pedahzur> hallyn: Sorry if I got the wrong channel to discuss this. Will happily move it if I need to.
<hallyn> pedahzur: d'oh, if i created that then yes i should have backported those too.  i'll do that.
<pedahzur> hallyn: Ah...OK...my sanity *is* in tact. :)
<pedahzur> hallyn: Shall I raise a bug, or is that needed?
<hallyn> pedahzur: no need.  thanks for bringing it up!
<xnox> Andy80: although it's a pain, I do $ bzr bd -S; and then use pbuilder-dist $series build $package.dsc
<pedahzur> hallyn: you're welcome. Thanks for responding quickly!
<slangasek> xnox: however, 'bzr bd -S' can also fail due to missing build-dependencies
<slangasek> as you probably know :)
<xnox> Andy80: because with pdebuild a package can escape and nuke stuff in your home dir =/
<slangasek> orly
<xnox> slangasek: pdebuild builds source package locally, so it can also fail ;-)
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> silly thing
<slangasek> right, so we should scrap all references to pbuilder in the guide and replace them with sbuild immediately ;)
<Andy80> xnox: so if I already have the .dsc, I do: pbuilder-dist precise build gambas2_2.23.1-1ubuntu6.dsc
<Andy80> ?
<slangasek> yep
<Andy80> let's try...
<Andy80> and it will get the deps automatically?
<jbicha> sbuild wasn't too difficult to set up
<xnox> slangasek: sbuild can also operate on the unpacked tree & escape *gasp*
<Andy80> yes it's getting...
<xnox> slangasek: clearly we should switch to yum & RPM
<xnox> ;-)
<slangasek> xnox: what packages are you building that you haven't already audited debian/rules on to make sure they don't rm -rf ~ ? :)
<slangasek> you can certainly configure schroot to not bind-mount things you're worried about, if that's the issue
<xnox> slangasek: not sure, there were some funny onces with vorlon@d.o in the change-by field. Do you know who that is?
<slangasek> xnox: a dastardly rogue
<xnox> slangasek: i think I got bitten by modifying packaging & adding patches.... only to have the build-dir purged and loosing my changes.
<xnox> nothing too serious.
<hallyn> pedahzur: I just blindly pushed them without a local build first (dependencies looked innocent).  They *should* build fine in a few mins
<pedahzur> hallyn: seabios is already there...wow...that was fast!
<slangasek> xnox: ah :)
<pedahzur> hallyn: I see the packages listed now...do you know how long does it take to update the packages indexes?  Even after 'update' apt is still complaining.
<pedahzur> (impatient, aren't I?)  :)
<SpamapS> hm, why would quantal's argparse.py be different from debian unstable's?
<SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1165051/
<slangasek> SpamapS: possibly because later versions of the package in Debian sid are including pulls of the release branch from the upstream VCS
<xnox> sbuild-build-depends-lo-menubar-dummy : Depends: libboo-dev but it is not installable
<xnox> boo sbuild boo =)
<xnox> s/libboo/libboost/
<hallyn> pedahzur: unfortunately the ppas are lower priority for the builders than the archive.  (naturally)
<hallyn> i'd expect 20 mins or so, but some days it can be hours
<pedahzur> hallyn: Ah...just because it's listed doesn't mean it's built. Gotcha.
<pedahzur> hallyn: but it is here: http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-virt/backports/ubuntu/ :)
<pedahzur> But not yet listed in http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-virt/backports/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/binary-amd64/Packages  Weird.
<SpamapS> slangasek: ah, ok, well it seems horribly broken in sid
<hallyn> i need to reboot into q for a test.  bbl
<pedahzur> hallyn: So I take it the builders "sweep" the pools to generate the package indexes?
<slangasek> SpamapS: probably warrants an RC bug against the package?
<infinity> pedahzur: Err, there's only source there, not binaries.
<pedahzur> hallyn: Ah!  The sources are in place, not the debs.
<infinity> pedahzur: But I'll give the builds a bit of a bump.
<pedahzur> hallyn: Yeah, sorry...was reading too fast when I was looking at pools.
<pedahzur> hallyn: Again: thank you very much!  I'll be sure to bug you if seabios and vgabios have unresolved dependencies. :)
<pedahzur> hallyn: Wow, they have no install-time deps...that simplifies things.
<xnox> a package fails due to -fpermissive.... while using gcc-4.7?!
<pedahzur> hallyn: Packages built, and they are installed. And there's the 1920x1080 screen option I was after in Windows. Thank you so very much!  It is greatly appreciated!
<hallyn> pedahzur: this was in relation to an open bug, right?  can you comment on it so i can act on the email?  (i assume this means i get to find a patch to cherrypick that fix whatever was broken)
<pedahzur> The version of vgabios installed did not have the 1920x1080 mode defined.  I had not opened a bug for it.  There *might* be an open bug for it.
<pedahzur> hallyn: ^^
<hallyn> ah.  yeah, rings a bell
<hallyn> ok.  thanks.
<hallyn> ttyl
#ubuntu-devel 2012-08-25
<soreau> How can you find the configure options used for a particular package? A config.log or anything
<soreau> I've tried apt-get source and packages.ubuntu.com but not finding the build output for the package
<maxb> The build output will only be present on launchpad
<soreau> ah
<penguin42> soreau: Go to the 'overview' page of a package, scroll down to one of the versions, click the > and it should open a set of publishing details including 'bui;ds' and there might be an i386, click on that, and it should ahve a buildlog link
 * penguin42 wishes that was easier to find!
<slangasek> well, if what you want is to find the options used, the general rule is download the source package and look at debian/rules
<soreau> maxb: penguin42: slangasek: Thanks for the help
<soreau> penguin42: Yes I wish it were easier to find too but the information is there
<nerdopolis__> Hi. I am trying to compile mesa for use for Wayland on my Live CD. I do get mesa to sucessfuly compile, but the problem is is that the resulting binaries are far larger then the ones compiled in Ubuntu packages.
<nerdopolis__> for instance:
<nerdopolis__> The egl_gallium that gets built is 20mb while the one in the distro is 6MB
<nerdopolis__> The dri folder that gets built is 87mb while the distro is 15MB
<nerdopolis__> The gbm folder that gets built is 55mb while the distro is 5mb
<xnox> nerdopolis__: are you comparing like for like? deb with debs; unpacked files with unpacked files?
<nerdopolis__> xnox: the unpacked files in /usr/lib/i386/(dri|gbm|egl_gallium)
<nerdopolis__> My build script with the mesa options I use  is here: http://rebeccablackos.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/rebeccablackos/rebeccablacklinux_files/usr/bin/Compile/mesa?revision=591
<xnox> nerdopolis__: and like for like builds? optimisation, hardening flags, debug symbols, etc?
<xnox> why don't you copy the debian dir and run
<xnox> $ debuild
<xnox> to create packages as you would be able to install
<xnox> your script doesn't tell me what build-flags / optimisation levels / debug symbols are used
<xnox> so not much use...
<nerdopolis__> xnox: I do use the strip command once the builds are done.  My build vars are here http://rebeccablackos.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/rebeccablackos/rebeccablacklinux_files/usr/bin/build_vars?revision=605
<xnox> use debian packaging if you want to create a deb.
<xnox> you won't be able to easily customize Live CD unless you compile debs
<nerdopolis__> xnox: I'm using mesa git. I'm not really aiming to create a deb... I'm installing mesa to /opt.
<nerdopolis__> I was just curious what you are using to get your mesa binaries much smaller then mine...
<xnox> so? we run daily builds on launchpad from upstream git, bzr, svn, etc while using debian packaging.
<nerdopolis__> xnox: I need Wayland build into mesa...
<xnox> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/mesa/quantal/view/head:/debian/rules
<xnox> this is how we compile mesa
<xnox> modify that to enable wayland as well
<nerdopolis__> xnox: is there a way to use that file against the mesa source from git?
<Darxus> nerdopolis__: Yes.
<Darxus> nerdopolis__: Basically you copy the debian directory into the git repo and run the command to build the package.
<xnox> nerdopolis__: $ pull-lp-source mesa; mv mesa-*/debian mesa-my-git/; cd mesa-my-git/; debuild
<xnox> nerdopolis__: if you modify anything in the debian/rules as you wish.
<xnox> nerdopolis__: if debuild fails, use $ debuild binary
<xnox> and $ debuild clean
<xnox> or simply git reset
<Darxus> nerdopolis__: Did you see me mention that the ubuntu package already has a build dependency on wayland 0.95?
<Darxus> I wonder if you even need to be building mesa now.
<nerdopolis__> xnox: sweet! I'll try that.
<nerdopolis__> Darxus: I did see you mention that. I suppose I could give that a try... see what happens if I don't build mesa...
<xnox> nerdopolis__: daily builds from upstream $git repository of mesa, wayland and etc. are here by the way https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa
<xnox> if you want latest stuff
<nerdopolis__> xnox: I guess I could also try that. I have been using my own buildscripts for building from GIT though...
<Darxus> nerdopolis__: Launchpad's automated daily build capabilities are neat.  I set up a spamassassin daily build repo some time ago.
<Darxus> Although that svn sync has been broken for something like six months :/
<xnox> nerdopolis__: that also build from GIT but into debian packages which you can install/remove/upgrade without pain.
<infinity> tjaalton: Halp, the Radeon driver hates my freedom, please fix.
<BenC> infinity: What can I do to help the haskell transition along?
<infinity> BenC: Fix the radeon driver on my PowerStation.
<BenC> infinity: is it as simple as upload each group of dependency levels, waiting and doing the next?
<infinity> BenC: But, failing that, talk to me or Laney tomorrow.  I'm literally just running out the door.
<BenC> Ok
<infinity> It's kinda as simple as that, except where we prefer syncs over reuploads, and sometimes it needs a buildd admin (ie: me) to just retry some things, etc.
<infinity> So, yeah, let's talk about it tomorrow, when I'm hung over and in a better mood overall. :)
<BenC> hehe, gotcha
<tjaalton> infinity: whaat? :)
<Andy80> hi
<Andy80> something/someone just broke the css (I suppose) in this page http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/debian-dir-overview.html
<Andy80> I see it wrong both with Chrome and Firefox. Do you see the same?
<Andy80> uhm... ando also the other pages :(
<tumbleweed> Andy80: yaeh, I'm getting 403s on the static content
<tumbleweed> when dbholbach turns up, prod him
<xnox> I have a community council type of problem who do I speak to?
<Laney> the community council?
<xnox> Laney: yeah, sorted now.
<xnox> Laney: how come edos-debcheck is out of date on the transition tracker?
<xnox> if I run locally i get "better" results ;-)
<xnox> e.g for ocaml & ghc
<Laney> what difference do you see?
<xnox> Laney: for example haskell-cmdargs and haskell-chell are installable
<xnox> Laney: yet on ghc tracker they are not
<Laney> they have ftbfs
<xnox> Laney: ok. But only on some arches =/ so edos-check does not distinguish per-arch ? *sigh*
<Laney> i think it's rather a problem with the archive keeping the old arch:all package around
<xnox> i see
<xnox> thanks
<Laney> i'd appreciate you doing some rebuilds if you have the time (or anyone else)
<xnox> Laney: setting up sbuild on my Panda Board ;-)
<xnox> Laney: cause it looks like armhf skew
<Laney> yeah there's some new bug on arm
<dupondje> [  102.745406] type=1400 audit(1345917432.434:29): apparmor="DENIED" operation="open" parent=2579 profile="/usr/lib/firefox/firefox{,*[^s][^h]}" name="/etc/opensc/opensc.conf" pid=2627 comm="plugin-containe" requested_mask="r" denied_mask="r" fsuid=1000 ouid=0
<dupondje> This should be reported to firefox I guess?
<dupondje> This is only needed when you have opensc module loaded in firefox, so not default ...
<xnox> dupondje: hmmm.... do you have apparmor profile enabled for firefox?
<dupondje> xnox: yea the default firefox apparmor profile
<xnox> dupondje: by default it is available, but disabled.
<xnox> dupondje: did you anable it?
<dupondje> yep :)
<xnox> dupondje: please do open a bug about it, but open it against two packages: firefox & apparmor. I think we provide firefox profile separately.
<dupondje> firefox profile is packaged in firefox
<xnox> dupondje: i'm just suggesting that such that apparmor experts get notified ;-)
<dupondje> i'll do :)
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/1041621 there :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041621 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Apparmor should have read rights granted to opensc.conf" [Undecided,New]
<xnox> dupondje: apport-collect 1041621
<xnox> would help as well ;-)
<dupondje> doing :)
<dupondje> Spam added! thx
 * xnox giggles, don't tell pitti that you call apport hooks spam ;-)
 * dupondje hides before getting slapped
#ubuntu-devel 2012-08-26
<jdstrand> xnox, dupondje: fyi, to make sure we get notified, you can use the 'apparmor' tag
<jdstrand> filing it against apparmor does the trick too though
<micahg> xnox: the apparmor tag is subscribed to by the Ubuntu security team, it's best to file the bug against the package where the profile exists
<rsalveti> tjaalton: more arm-related bugs, if you can please review and sponsor: bug 1041727 and bug 1041686
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041727 in xserver-xorg-video-modesetting (Ubuntu) "fbdev is also loaded with modesetting on ARM platforms" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041727
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041686 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "modesetting's driver is always the default on arm now that it's part of the xserver-xorg-video-all package" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041686
<rsalveti> needed now that modesetting is also installed by default from xorg-video-all
<Kalidarn> seriously what's the likelihood of seeing a reply from canonical about bug 750437 (affects multiple users, latest version of the ATI driver confirmed by multiple users to fix the crash)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 750437 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu) "fglrx hard lockup on shutdown" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750437
<Kalidarn> and it's been around for ages
<Kalidarn> affects 62 people, and has a heat of 292 :P
<Kalidarn> and was originally reported in 2011-04-04
<Kalidarn> given ubuntu 12.04 LTS has 5 year support, it's not going to go away until the package is updated.
<tjaalton> rsalveti: yup, pushed
<rsalveti> tjaalton: great, thanks!
<penguin42> Kalidarn: There seem to be a few bug reports that are similar; I think it wasn't obvious from the title it was also 12.04 - do you happen to know if it's fixed in 12.10 ?
<Kalidarn> no i didn't have an ATI card at that time
<Kalidarn> oh 12.10 is afterwards, rather no i haven't tested that
<Kalidarn> penguin42: the bug would be fixed in 12.10 if the drivers have been updated
<Kalidarn> as installing the drivers manually from ATI's catalyst package fixed it for me (and a few others)
<Kalidarn> i assume that 12.10 installs a later driver
<penguin42> Kalidarn: Do you happen to know what version is needed to fix it?
<Kalidarn> it gets a bit complicated with ATI
<Kalidarn> because 12.6 was the latest one available they had (when i tested it)
<Kalidarn> they're now on 12.7 which is also fixed.
<Kalidarn> not sure what version ubuntu uses, they name them differently i think
<Kalidarn> i would assume there isn't a release
<Kalidarn> [ 12.460] (II) fglrx(0): Version: 8.96.4
<Kalidarn> [ 12.460] (II) fglrx(0): Date: Mar 12 2012
<Kalidarn> being the buntu release
<Kalidarn> [ 12.508] (II) fglrx(0): Version: 8.98.2
<Kalidarn> [ 12.508] (II) fglrx(0): Date: Jun 11 2012
<Kalidarn> that one being 12.6
<Kalidarn> i think ubuntu probably ships with 12.5
<penguin42> Kalidarn: I stick to the free ATI drivers; the fglrx-updates package in quantal is 2:8.960-0ubuntu6 so I suggest that's still the 8.96.?
<Kalidarn> hmm not sure
<Kalidarn> because the latest version ubuntu was installing of the proprietary drivers was 8.96.4
<Kalidarn> the catalyst 12.6 were 8.98.2
<Kalidarn> 960 looks older or maybe the version string doesn't include the .X
<Kalidarn> penguin42: can you look in Xorg.log
<Kalidarn> grep for "fglrx(0): Version:"
<penguin42> Kalidarn: I'm not running fglrx; I've marked that bug 'high', which seems reasonable - but I don't know what the process with fglrx stuff is - if there's a newer released binary one that works on precise then I guess it could be updated; but I'd assume that's something the fglrx packager know about
<Kalidarn> oh :)
<barefoot138255> I'm developing a simble bash script that allows multiple installations at once... It's actually pretty easy.
<xnox> jdstrand: micahg: thanks, didn't know about that trick =) but didn't do too bad ;-)
<Laney> BenC: yo, got a real FTBFS for you ;-)
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/haskell-cryptocipher/0.3.5-1build1/+build/3743028
<penguin42> Laney: oh that's not going to be a fun one is it - miscompare on a crypto algorithm
#ubuntu-devel 2013-08-19
<pitti> Good morning
<twb> example-content/raring seems to only have two .oggs in it, but it's not obvious to me from debian/changelog why all the other content is gone.
<twb> "Cleaned out old content, preparing for new" makes it sound like new content gets generated on each release, but before then there's a period where there's nothing in there.  Is that right?
<twb> I'll just use example-content=41 for now, since that has the ODF stuff I wanted.
<ScottK> pitti: Is there a way to opt-out of the ADT success emails?
<pitti> ScottK: not right now; sorry for the spam, one of the autopkgtest nodes got broken and caused gazillions of failures, so we disabled it and I'm now re-running the failures
<pitti> ScottK: we can add a blacklist for the notifications for sure
<ScottK> Failures are potentially interesting.  Successes, not so much.
<pitti> ScottK: but I wouldn't add a feature to opt out only from the success emails, that doesn't seem useful to me
<pitti> ScottK: well, these are notifications about state *changes*, not states
<pitti> ScottK: i. e. successâ fail or fail â success
<ScottK> LP doesn't mail for build successes, just FTBFS.
<pitti> if you get told about "your test just got broken", you should also get told about "it's fixed again", no?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> If it's working, there's nothing to be done, so no need for a mail.
<infinity> ScottK: I think this was a compromise so that you don't get mailed on every single failure.
<infinity> ScottK: Because some packages (I happen to maintain one) get their autopkgtests run many, many times per day.
<infinity> ScottK: So, hearing that it failed 30 times isn't helpful.  But not hearing that means you don't know that it stopped failing, unless you're told of the state change.
<pitti> ScottK: so you'd always have to actually go to the web ui to see if it's still failing?
<ScottK> I pretty much would anyway.
<infinity> ScottK: If tests were only run once per version (like a build), then I'd agree it should work the same as FTBFS mails, but that's not how autopkgtest works.
<ScottK> I guess I find them annoying because I'm getting mails completely unrelated to the package in question.
<ScottK> So I just got one about python-qt4, which hasn't been touched in some time.
<infinity> Sure, but that's the point.
<ScottK> No idea what caused it, why I should care.
<pitti> all the python tests were triggered recently
<ScottK> Yes, because I sync'ed python3-defaults.
<pitti> I guess someone uploaded python2.7, or 3.3, or -defaults
<infinity> ScottK: autopkgtests aren't run when the package is uploaded, they're run when deps change.
<ScottK> Yes.
<pitti> ScottK: ah, so that would be the notification why it won't land in saucy
<infinity> ScottK: That's entirely the point of the process.
<pitti> infinity: they are also run when the package is uploaded
<infinity> pitti: Sure, but for many packages, that's much, much less often. :P
<ScottK> In this case, some tests failed because two packages had to land nearly simultaneously.
<ScottK> So all the test failures were meaningless.
<infinity> Surely, that points to bad dependencies.
<infinity> If one can install a bad combination of packages...
<ScottK> One could only because one was stuck in New.
<ScottK> Won't happen again.
<pitti> the tests currently seem to trigger sometimes for uninstallable packages
<pitti> I think JB looked into this recently, not sure whether that's fixed already (still in post-holiday catch-up mode)
<infinity> ScottK: Erm, how would NEW matter?  If one can install a bad combination, that's true regardless of what queues something is in.
<infinity> Partial upgrades, etc.  If you can install a bad set of packages, your deps are wrong.
<pitti> i. e. if the test failed with installing the needed packages
<ScottK> Because I synced the newer python3-defaults slighlty before I should have.
<ScottK> OK, then I guess I'm asking for an opt-out mechanism because I have yet to find one of those mails useful.
<pitti> ScottK: ok, I filed bug 1213793 about it
<ubottu> bug 1213793 in Auto Package Testing "add opt-out blacklist for email notifications" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213793
<pitti> ScottK: so you just check from time to time whether your uploads/syncs actually made it into the distro?
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> There's plenty of other reasons things don't make it, so if you want to know, you have to check.
<pitti> infinity: regarding that, why did python3-defaults make it into saucy in the first place, was it forced in?
<ScottK> Yes.
<pitti> as its autopkgtest is broken
<ScottK> I forced it past the tests, since I knew they were irrelevant failures.
<pitti> ah, apparenlty its autopkgtest was dropped completely
<pitti> I'll remove the job from jenkins
<ScottK> Yes.  It should reappear in dh-python shortly.
<pitti> that looks like fallout from the sync
<ScottK> Yes.
<pitti> ScottK: ah, so that was deliberate? thanks for confirming
<pitti> ScottK: removed from jenkins, I'll file an RT to remove it from the public mirror, too
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> dh_python3 has been removed from python3-defaults and is now in dh-python (which can provide dh_python2 or dh_python3).  Trying to manage getting all the Ubuntu changes for python3-defaults (from an unsplit package) and the split was a bit complicated.
<dholbach> good morning
<mlankhorst> g'day mate
<seb128> hum
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html has gtk waiting on notify-osd tests that is RUNNING but finished on the jenkins side for 3 days
<seb128> who can unblock that?
<seb128> cjwatson, pitti: ^?
<pitti> seb128: I'm not sure TBH; cjwatson and jibel worked on that interface
<seb128> pitti, jibel is on vac right?
<seb128> not sure if cjwatson is back from debconf
<pitti> he was last week, I thought he'd come back today
<seb128> pitti, they are both on holidays
<seb128> for the week
<seb128> do we have a plan B? ;-)
<seb128> infinity, can you help maybe?
<pitti> seb128: I'll have a look at the state files on people
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> pitti, I think last time it happened, jibel "retried" the tests
<pitti> seb128: ah, let me try that first, n-osd should be quick
<seb128> that situation seems to happen because tests get triggered before the new version of the package hits the mirror
<seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
<pitti> seb128: building
<seb128> let's see how that goes
<pitti> seb128: right, ISTR that jibel wrote something about fixing that right before I left
<pitti> seb128: test run is done, let's see after the next publisher run
<seb128> pitti, great
<seb128> pitti, "Valid candidate "
<seb128> pitti, danke ;-)
<seb128> pitti, how did you retry? just by clicking on the button in the jenkins UI? I could have done that myself, right?
<pitti> seb128: yes, just by that; if you have VPN access to the lab, you can do it yourself
<seb128> pitti, cool, I've vpn, I'm going to try myself next time ;-)
<xnox> pitti: seb128: hm, i have vpn into jenkins & login but no such buttons =(
<seb128> xnox, I've them here
<seb128> xnox, http://10.98.0.1:8080/view/Saucy/view/AutoPkgTest/job/saucy-adt-colord/62/matrix-reloaded/?
<seb128> xnox, do you see the "rebuild matrix"?
<xnox> seb128: i do. interesting.
<xnox> seb128: I've been using... 10.189.74.2
<seb128> xnox, I've the button on that ip as well...
<sil2100> slangasek: hi!
<pitti> xnox: likewise, both IPs work for me; not sure why there are two
<xnox> seb128: right. And i seemed to have forgotten my password and failing to login.
<pitti> xnox: FYI, automake1.13 autopkgtest is currently running (with my allow-stderr fix)
<sil2100> slangasek: I have been told that you have volunteered to help out with NEWing our packages ;)
<sil2100> slangasek: there is a mediascanner package in the NEW queue
<xnox> pitti: \o/ ah so that's what was wrong with it =)
<sil2100> slangasek: the unity scopes developers (and touch apps guys) would need it for development, could you NEW it for us?
<xnox> sil2100: it's 1:30am for slangasek and jet-lagged from trans-atlantic flight =) not sure when he'll be online again. But stgraber might be about (not sure either).
<sil2100> xnox: oh, ok, thanks ;)
<xnox> sil2100: de-new requests are best on #ubuntu-release channel =) that's what that channel is for (sru, de-new, and all things releasy)
<sil2100> xnox: so many channels, so many different things to tackle!
<sil2100> xnox: I usually target specific people because of that ;)
<xnox> hehe =)
<pitti> xnox: ah, I noticed too late that your debian/tests/fullbuild actually calls debian/rules build
<pitti> xnox: it's actually easier to just have the test be "true" and add a "build-needed" restriction, then you can follow the build in the console log, etc.
<pitti> xnox: (not a biggie, just FYI for next time)
<xnox> pitti: i see. ok, will note for the future.
<xnox> pitti: jenkins logs are easier to read this way =) but it didn't help with the complete test failing though =(
<pitti> xnox: how do you mean?
<pitti> xnox: it's still running, it hasn't failed yet
<pitti> it only failed because of some stderr?
<pitti> (apart from some xfails)
<xnox> pitti: as in, mine original run.
<xnox> i guess build-needed discards stderr during build (aka non-fatal) and true will not produce stderr and thus "allow stderr" option would not be needed.
<xnox> but i guess wait and see.
<pitti> xnox: correct
<pitti> xnox: that's how we set up the mutual eglibc/kernel/binutils autopkgtests (they just rebuidl themselves against the updated toolchain package)
<pitti> xnox: yay, automake1.13 succeeded
 * dholbach hugs ev
<ev> :)
<ev> pitti: whenever you have a moment: https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/drop-apport-noui/+merge/180824
<ScottK> pitti: I just uploaded dh-python with the dh_python3 Autopkgtest in it (the one that used to be in python3-defaults).
<mpt> ev, if the errors.ubuntu.com graph isn't taken down in the meantime, will it just slowly resume its previous shape as the new database gets more and more of the data from the old one?
<pitti> ScottK: nice, thank you
<pitti> ev: looking
<pitti> ev: simple enough, thanks
<pitti> ev: I guess we should make a new upstream release after that, for packaging?
<slangasek> sil2100, xnox: 1:30am + jetlagged cancels out ;p
<xnox> =)))))))
<mlankhorst> hahaha
<sil2100> ;)
<sil2100> slangasek: you think you could help out a bit even in this situation? ;p
<slangasek> sil2100: sure, having a look
<sil2100> slangasek: thank you!
<stgraber> slangasek: good "morning" :)
<slangasek> stgraber: ohai
<geser> cd sd1308
<geser> argh
<slangasek> sil2100: "--fail-missing" - why are you passing this as an argument to dh?
<sil2100> slangasek: that's a recent trend in our packaging, it's to make debian/rules smaller - didrocks recommends using this recently, I saw some discussion about it already but not sure about the outcome
<didrocks> it's more about standardization
<slangasek> sil2100: it is not documented anywhere that this option is supported by dh
<didrocks> slangasek: it is supported, some debian packages are using them as well IIRC
<slangasek> didrocks: are you sure it's supported, and not silently ignored?
<didrocks> slangasek: will reneed to do a new test, but I'm almost sure we tested it
 * didrocks back on system update for now, noting to do a test (if sil2100 can't retest it)
<sil2100> You mean, if it works?
<didrocks> yep
<slangasek> didrocks: ok, checking the dh source I see that any unknown options are just passed through; so yeah, this looks fine
<sil2100> Oh yes it works ;)
<didrocks> slangasek: yeah, we "spam" all commands with it IIRC
<slangasek> and this is even documented in the manpage
 * slangasek nods
<sil2100> At least with the debhelper we use
<slangasek> sil2100: debian/*.dirs are almost certainly superfluous and should be dropped
<sil2100> slangasek: ACK, those seemed leftovers from the old packaging, could have cleaned that up indeed
<sil2100> slangasek: should I do it now and request an re-upload or do it in the next version?
<slangasek> sil2100: next version is fine
<slangasek> the only thing it hurts is that people see them and cargo cult :)
<sil2100> hehe
<sil2100> Thanks
<slangasek> sil2100: embedded jquery> heh
<slangasek> I: libmediascanner-1.0-1: spelling-error-in-binary usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libmediascanner-1.0.so.0.3.93 similiar similar
<slangasek> go lintian
<slangasek> sil2100: do you know if this is a false positive?: I: libmediascanner-1.0-1: hardening-no-fortify-functions usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libmediascanner-1.0.so.0.3.93
<slangasek> sil2100: and aren't all new Canonical-upstream libraries supposed to have .symbols for the packaging?
<sil2100> slangasek: dholbach pointed this out, I tried with the upstream developers to get it 'gone' but we couldn't, since according to all guidelines it should be on
 * slangasek checks the build log
<sil2100> slangasek: since we're using dh 9 with cmake, which should automatically do its 'magic'
<sil2100> slangasek: but I think we should first have anything to fortify first
<slangasek> sil2100: right - the failure can mean there was nothing to fortify, or it can mean that the upstream build system subverted debhelper's magic.  I'm looking at build logs now to make sure the options were being passed correctly
<slangasek> sil2100: build logs look ok
<slangasek> sil2100: that leaves only the symbols file question, I think?  Which is not a blocker from my side
<ev> mpt: possibly. I suspect there's a bug in there, given its current shape. Work is underway to replace it: https://acunu.zendesk.com/requests/884 (I think you may be able to see that by logging in with your canonical openid account)
<sil2100> slangasek: I must say that in this case the reason for the missing symbols file iis...!
<ev> pitti: yes :)
<sil2100> slangasek: ...my incompetence
<ev> I can sort that now
<sil2100> slangasek: so sorry about that, adding it now so that future versions have it in
<pitti> ev: hang on, I still have an open MP from bdmurray, doing that now
<ev> oops. I'll uncommit then
<ev> okay, all yours :)
<sil2100> slangasek: the thing with symbols files in our canonical projects is like this that we don't always require them in C++ projects, although they are highly recommended
<ScottK> pitti: Would you please trigger a manual run of the autopkgtest in dh-python?  It seems it didn't run after the upload and I want to make sure I got it right.
<ScottK> sil2100: symbols files for C++ aren't too bad if you use the pkg-kde symbolshelper.
<pitti> ScottK: the job hasn't been (auto-)created yet; it might just take a while, not sure why
<pitti> ScottK: i. e. I can't trigger it manually yet
<smoser> xnox, i dont think your 'upstart-file-bridge' suggestion above would work for us.
<smoser> i dont think.
<smoser> but maybe i dont understand the nature of the "inotify doesn't work on overlayfs" fully.
<xnox> smoser: why not? if the overlayfs is empty, and I do "touch /etc/foo.conf", the inotify on the "/etc" will give nothing, but inotify on the "/" will get "created dir "etc" event".
<smoser> so you're suggesting that inotify event would work for /
<xnox> smoser: after which, re-creating inotify watch on the "/etc" will use the new inode, and one will start receiving events from that point on.
<smoser> is that true?
<xnox> smoser: yes, it will. If your overlayfs mount the "/"
<smoser> because if so, i think it'd be enough to create a file in /etc/ in the overlay called '.overlay.marker'
<xnox> smoser: ok. if you do that before upstart is launched (e.g. in initramfs) than upstart will have correct inodes watched with inotify from the very moment it is started.
<smoser> well, there is no initramfs. this was lxc related.
<xnox> smoser: =) ok, before upstart is executed =)
<smoser> but your suggestion in the initramfs is good too, and that could be done in 'overlayroot'
<xnox> and/or casper (which is how I was testing it using desktop-cd)
<smoser> xnox, i think if this works its the siplist solution.   i never really read anything about why it didn't work.
<smoser> just that it didn't
<smoser> :)
<smoser> would we also get delete events propogated ?
<xnox> smoser: basically inotify watches work on dirs. When one places inotify watch, it's places on the base-dir (read-only). When one creates/touches the file, in the overlay a directory is created e.g. "/path/to/overlay/etc/". From this point on, user visible inode is replaced, but the inotify watch is not moved to the new inode. If one now places the watch it will watch the "/path/to/overlay/etc" properly.
<xnox> if overlay is somehow purged again, one looses the watches again.
<xnox> and when it's re-created in the overlay, one needs to replace the watches again.
<xnox> but as long as overlay is mounted, one cannot actually remove "/path/to/overlay/". Thus having a job monitoring "/path/to/overlay/" is a hacky, yet reliable way to notice inode changes and reload configuration.
<ScottK> pitti: OK.  Thanks.
<smoser> hm.. so jus creating that /etc/init/.overlay seems like it would work well.
<xnox> the job itself will watch "/" it's just the overlay blackmagic which substitues it for the correct inode. This means one should start the watch after the overlay was mounted.
<smoser> does initctl reload-configuration reset the inotify ?
<xnox> smoser: yes.
<smoser> ok, xnox so this sounds really nice... but i'm not sure who is fixing it and where.
<xnox> so for example this hacky job will not catch: boot, upstart runs, user mounts overlayfs on top of "/". But will catch any of: boot, overlayfs is mounted, upstart runs.
<smoser> am I fixing in 'lxc-create' (from lxc) and 'overlayfs' (cloud-initramfs-tools) or are you fixing in upstart.
<smoser> "fixing"
<xnox> smoser: i originally thought that upstart itself should place the inotify watch on "/", but I got push back from slangasek/jodh about it.
<xnox> smoser: i think shipping such job in ubuntu-upstart package should be sufficient.
<smoser> right.
<smoser> but as a bridge, its not *that* bad.
<smoser> and one inotify process.
<smoser> but i guess its pure waste if not doing overlay
<xnox> smoser: not process, watch. It really has no penalty on normal systems, as it will never get triggered. The bonus though, is that our live-cd will properly start picking up upstart jobs during "try ubuntu session"
<xnox> (just one job, waiting for it's conditions to be met whilst "wasting" one open file discriptor)
<smoser> right. its non-zero though. there is *some* cost, no matter how tiny in kernel memory or something.
<smoser> but outside of a purist view of the world, it seems to me to be reasonable.
<smoser> xnox, do we have a bug for this ?
<smoser> specifically. other than general bug 882147
<ubottu> bug 882147 in coreutils (Ubuntu) "overlayfs does not implement inotify interfaces correctly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/882147
<xnox> smoser: no other bugs as far as I can tell, let me open one with details.
<smoser> xnox, thanks for your help, if nothing else, this vastly simplifies my needs for lxc clone
<xnox> smoser: bug 1213925
<ubottu> bug 1213925 in upstart (Ubuntu) "upstart should notice "/etc" inode change" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213925
<xnox> i'll update that bug with proposed branch.
<smoser> xnox, hallyn, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6002868/
<pitti> ev: ok, I'm done with my changes, doing upstream release now
<smoser> thats the lxc fix to create the dir (and remove my dpkg-diversion of /sbin/start)
<ev> cheers!
<ev> pitti: could you change the upstart job to call whoopsie-upload-all while you're there?
<smoser> xnox, thanks again. i think i'll just propose this change to lxc anyway.
<pitti> ev: that's not upstream, that's only in the saucy branch
<smoser> as it would be necessary for 12.04
<smoser> unless your suggested change was sru'd
<ev> oh right, oops!
<xnox> smoser: there is no upstart-file-bridge in 12.04, and that would not be sru'd
<ev> I can do the saucy branch changes when you're done then
<xnox> smoser: so you might want the lxc change still.
<smoser> right.
<pitti> ev: upstream release done, merged into saucy branch; want to do the upstart/packaging changes now?
<ev> yup!
<ev> pitti: am I okay to upload this?
<hallyn_> smoser: you're just creating that dir to make sure /etc/ exists in the overlay right?  if so looks good
<smoser> hallyn_, correct, and removing the other stuff.
<smoser> much simpler.
<smoser> here.
<smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6002906/
<smoser> hallyn_, that has different flag name then before. '--create-etc-init'
<smoser> seems better as an explicit flag
<smoser> so if you're going to just take somethign, take that. but i can send to ml if you'd like
<hallyn_> yeah, please do
<pitti> ev: hm, doesn't that require dropping apport-noui from the .install?
<ev> argh. I had that in my original changes and completely forgot it the second time around
<ev> fixing
<ev> (and running sbuild to catch any further niggles)
<pitti> ev: btw, whoopsie-upload-all doesn't take any parameters; if we want to call it with individual reports, we need to fix that
<ev> oh, interesting
<pitti> (it was written with a slightly different use case in mind)
<ev> I can't see the harm in calling without arguments in the upstart job
<ev> can you?
<pitti> ev: no, should be fine; it could potentially happen that two instances run at the same time
 * ev nods
<ev> pitti: does this look okay? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6003017/
<pitti> ev: we don't technically need the UID test, you can always call it as root to upload everything
<pitti> ev: is there a way to lock a job so that only one instance runs at a time?
<ev> pitti: yeah, best to keep it simple
<pitti> ev: also, shouldn't that job have "task", as it's not constantly running?
<pitti> perhaps instance already does something like that, not sure
 * ev consults the cookbook
<Dark_light> kernel 3.10 broke the rtl8192se and other realtek drivers https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60713
<ubottu> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 60713 in network-wireless "Driver rtl8192ce unable to connect with 3.10.x kernels" [Normal,New]
<dobey> mardy: ping
<mardy> dobey: pong
<ev> pitti: so it definitely doesn't call more than one instance at a time, but I can't seem to get it to follow up with a second instance if I've done touch /var/crash/bar.crash while it's processing /var/crash/bar.crash
<ev> investigating
<pitti> ev: that might be the "task" bit?
<ev> tried that as well
<pitti> ev: as the job is already running?
<pitti> ev: but actually, we don't want a second instance, so that seems fine :)
<pitti> ah no, that's what "instance" is supposed to do
<ev> pitti: well I mean if whoopsie-upload-all is running and during that time apport comes along and creates a new /var/crash/something.crash
<dobey> mardy: hi. i'm having a bit of trouble adding an account with uoa/signon. i have the .provider/.service/.service-type files installed, and can create an account. once i create the account, calling account->supportsService("ubuntuone") returns true, but when i try to do manager->accountList("ubuntuone") after i save the account to the system, it returns an empty list. any idea why that would be?
<ev> (this is what I'm testing with http://paste.ubuntu.com/6003119/)
<ev> If I run touch /tmp/foo.crash; sleep 3; touch /tmp/bar.crash I only get "Match is /tmp/foo.crash")
<ev> "Match is /tmp/bar.crash" never arrives
<mardy> dobey: maybe the account is not enabled?
<mardy> dobey: or the ubuntuone service isn't?
<pitti> ev: hm, I think that needs jodh
<dobey> mardy: the account is enabled. what does enabling the service mean?
<pitti> ev: so ideally we would serialize the two instances, but of course we need to run the job on each one
<ev> jodh: o/ hiya
<ev> yeah
<dobey> mardy: how do i "enable" the service with accounts-qt5?
<jodh> ev: sleep 3 isn't long enough - your job doesn't use 'instance' so it is still running after 3 seconds and upstart will stop the same job re-running until the existing instance has stopped.
<mardy> dobey: account->selectService("ubuntuone"); account->setEnabled(true);
<ev> jodh: but how do we get it to queue up runs of the same job
<mardy> dobey: you can run the "account-console" commandline tool to check
<mardy> dobey: account-console show <account-number>
<ev> that is, if I run touch /var/crash/foo.crash and it runs whoopsie-upload-all for five minutes and during that five minutes /var/crash/bar.crash comes along - how do we get it to process bar.crash?
<dobey> selectService() seems to require a Service object, not a string
<dobey> mardy: what should i see if it's enabled? showing other accounts does not make it clear at all
<jodh> ev: use the 'instance' stanza. Take a look at /usr/share/upstart/sessions/update-notifier-crash.conf for an example.
<jodh> ev: ... and http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#instance for lots of details on that facility.
<mardy> dobey: you can paste the output to me in query
<ev> jodh: sure, but update-notifier-crash will run apport in parallel, no? We want one instance of it at a time
<ev> whoopsie-upload-all, that is
<dobey> oh ok, i got it working. it adds "enabled; true" under the "Settings for ubuntuone" it seems
<mardy> dobey: yep
<jodh> ev: what is your job trying to do?#
<ev> jodh: so we have a process, whoopsie-upload-all that processes .crash files in /var/crash. When there's a new .crash file in /var/crash, we want it to run, but we don't want more than one instances of whoopsie-upload-all. However, we do want all .crash files to be processed. So if whoopsie-upload-all is already running and a new .crash file comes along, it will need to be run again.
<ev> (this is for uploading crash reports on Touch. /usr/share/apport/apport creates the initial report, whoopsie-upload-all creates the .upload file for each .crash, and whoopsie processes the .upload files)
<jodh> ev: well, you still need to use 'instance' as presumably whoopsie-upload-all is going to take >0 time to do its job and if you don't use 'instance', you'll lose other crash file creation events.
<jodh> maybe you could have an instance job that somehow adds the name of new crash files into the uploader queue?
<ev> pitti, jodh: hm, could we have whoopsie-upload-all spin waiting for a flock, if upstart cannot handle this use case for us?
<pitti> ev: we can put flock && upload-all && rm <lockfile> into the job?
<ev> yeah, that sounds like it should work
<pitti> ev: ah, man flock has a nice example how to use it
<ev> ooh, the flock -n 9 one?
<pitti> yes
<pitti> ev: you could actually use /var/crash/.lock, to use a shared lock with apport itself
<pitti> ev: to avoid reading a half-written file
<pitti> altough apport's fileutils logic should already weed them out
<ev> so something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/6003229/
<pitti> ev: actually no, ignore that; we certainly do want new reports to be created while whoopsie-upload-all is still running
<ev> oh right!
<ev> heh
<pitti> ev: otherwise we'd block the kernel core dump handler unnecessarily
<ev> yeah
<ev> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6003231/ ?
<pitti> ev: how does the $MATCH magic work? i. e. what does upstart assign to it?
<ev> it assigns the matching .crash file
<ev> so whatever the first one is that triggered the event
<pitti> ev: can you please use a dot prefix to hide it? that ought to avoid confusing get_new_reports()
<pitti> ev: ah, thanks
<ev> pitti: to be clear, I made it live in /var/lock, but sure
<pitti> ev: oh right, missed that; that's fine of course
<pitti> ev: (/run/lock)
<ev> erm yes :D
<pitti> ev: I still think that needs a "task" somewhere as it's not continuously running
 * ev nods
<ev> I'll test with that
<pitti> ev: need to leave for Taekwondo, will be back in 4 hours for the techboard meeting
<ev> cool, thanks for your help today
<JackYu> dholbach, hi, would you please help me review the packaging request at bug #1213998?
<ubottu> bug 1213998 in UbuntuKylin "[needs-packaging] youker-assistant" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213998
<dholbach> JackYu, I'm in a call right now and will have to run afterwards - can you ask in #ubuntu-desktop maybe?
<JackYu> dholbach, sure, I will try at desktop first, thanks:)
<dholbach> great :)
<JackYu> dholbach, hi, it seems that there is no response in #ubuntu -desktop, would you please help to review when you are free these days? thanks so much.
<dholbach> JackYu, maybe you can try mailing ubuntu-desktop@lists.u.c too?
<dholbach> I've got to run now
<JackYu> dholbach, ok, I will send an email.
<dholbach> all the best!
<dholbach> see you!
<ev> pitti: if you want to review before I upload: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6003480/
<smoser> xnox, hey.
<smoser> so i modified 'overlayroot' initramfs package
<smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6003595/
<smoser> i can verify that /etc/init/.overlayfs-upstart-helper exists in the overlay
<smoser> but then when i tried to 'apt-get install tgt' i saw
<smoser> initctl: Unknown job: tgt
<smoser> any thoughts?
<xnox> hm.
<smoser> $ ls -altr /media/root-rw/overlay/etc/init
<smoser> total 16
<smoser> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  148 Aug  6 16:28 tgt.conf
<smoser> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root   50 Aug 19 17:16 .overlayfs-upstart-helper
<smoser> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 19 17:17 .
<smoser> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Aug 19 17:17 ..
<xnox> smoser: and doing "$ initctl reload-configuration; status tgt" shows upstart pick it up?
<smoser> $ sudo status tgt
<smoser> status: Unknown job: tgt
<smoser> $ sudo initctl reload-configuration tgt
<smoser> $ sudo status tgt
<smoser> tgt stop/waiting
<smoser> so, yes, that worked.
<xnox> smoser: hm. (a) crank up upstart logging, to see what happened. E.g. was the marker created before upstart was started.... (b) try touching "foo.conf" instead of .overlayfs-upstart-helper.
<xnox> and i need to go back and try this again.
<smoser> well, what is weird is that i'm pretty sure this worked for lxc
<smoser> same basic path. making sure the overlay had the file.
<DogStarChamp> Hey, does anyone know if xdotools will be included with Ubuntu 13.10? I know that Mir is going to be default and I'm afraid that it's going to make xdotools useless.
<ogra_> DogStarChamp, xorg is still there and wont go away, so will xdotools
<xnox> DogStarChamp: and xdotools will be even fully functional under XMir.
<DogStarChamp> Thank you!
<DogStarChamp> I was wondering about  the compatibility with XMir but that's a little more reassuring.
<ogra_> well, you can pretty surely rely on the fact that xorg will still be around for years even if Mir is the default
<smoser> xnox, well, i just verified that this works on lxc (clone). so i'm not sure what is going wrong... hummm. one difference might have been precise kernel on one and saucy on another.
<osarrouy> hi everyone
<mlankhorst> soo..
<mlankhorst> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/147928769/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-powerpc.llvm-toolchain-3.3_1%3A3.3-5ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<mlankhorst> why does llvm try to use 8 byte atomics on powerpc?
<pitti> ev: LGTM, thanks!
<pitti> ev: I uploaded the package, FYI
<infinity> mlankhorst: That probably just needs an -latomic
<infinity> mlankhorst: I'll look at it a bit later, if you want.
<mlankhorst> infinity: thanks, please do :-)
<mlankhorst> the offender seems to be an atomic<addr_t> afaict
<infinity> mlankhorst: I vaguely sort of "maintain" llvm in Ubuntu anyway, I'll give it a poke in a bit.
<infinity> mlankhorst: It'll give me a chance to steal TIL back from you. :P
<mlankhorst> TIL?
<mlankhorst> ah :P
<infinity> Touched-It-Last.
<mlankhorst> yeah i was slow today
<infinity> Sadly, reddit has stolen that TLA, and now people read TIL as "Today I Learned".
<infinity> mlankhorst: I'm still not sure if I consider it a compiler bug that gcc doesn't automagically add -latomic when it might be needed, but it shouldn't be too hard to tear apart the llvm build system and make it behave.  I'll test locally before I go whack-a-moling, though.
<infinity> Because lolcmake, it could take a few tries.
<mlankhorst> --Wl,--as-needed -latomic --Wl,--no-as-needed ? :>
<ScottK> xnox: I suspect boost is the guilty party trying to get vdr-plugin-live to rebuild to get cxxtools, tntnet, and tntdb out of -proposed.
<xnox> ScottK: not libcxxtools8 -> libcxxtools9 transition?
<ScottK> Yes.  that one
<ScottK> vdr-plugin-live seems to be the only thing holding it back and it won't build.
<xnox> ScottK: let me try.
<ScottK> xnox: Thanks.
<xnox> ScottK: http://projects.vdr-developer.org/issues/1351 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=713568
<ubottu> Debian bug 713568 in src:vdr-plugin-live "vdr-plugin-live: FTBFS: recordings.ecpp:203:47: error: no matching function for call to 'tnt::QueryParams::QueryParams(tnt::QueryParams&, bool)'" [Serious,Open]
<ScottK> There's a new upstream version that's not packaged.
<ScottK> I already tried it, that didn't help.
<xnox> ScottK: seems like it's building. I'll NMU into debian, and then it can be synced into ubuntu.
<ScottK> OK.
#ubuntu-devel 2013-08-20
<xnox> ScottK: good night. NMU-uploaded, but it's not in launchpad yet to be available for sync.
<ScottK> xnox: Thanks.
<goddard> anyone working on this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/sni-qt/+bug/1209106
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1209106 in sni-qt "system tray icon is next to launcher" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> xnox: It's there now.  I took care of syncing it.
<pitti> Good morning
<stgraber> morning pitti
<u-k-i-t> #1000182 Can we look at getting this fixed in 12.04 please.
<infinity> pitti: What's the story on the linux autopkgtest that's been 'running' all day?
<infinity> pitti: Also, "autopkgtest for linux 3.11.0.3.4: RUNNING" looks like some curious binary/source confusion (that's a linux-meta version, ie: where the "linux" binary package comes from)
<infinity> cjwatson: ^
<dholbach> good morning
<pitti> infinity: looking; we have some jenkins problems on magners which plars just worked around
<pitti> infinity: linux autopkgtest succeeded about an hour ago
<pitti> infinity: where do you see this?
<pitti> infinity: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html says that it was held back by the failed eglibc test
<pitti> infinity: which is a genuine failure (i. e. failed test cases, not problems with the machinery)
<pitti> infinity: so I guess the "running all day" was due to jenkins publication failing, and it caught up now
<pitti> infinity: oh, I guess you mean for linux-signed
<pitti> infinity: I'm afraid the only two people  who know the britney/adt interface (jibel and cjwatson) are on vac?
<infinity> pitti: Yeah, I mean linux-signed, which claims to be testing linux/3.11.0.3.4 which, of course, doesn't exist.
<pitti> infinity: right; that should just look at the successful linux run, so I guess britney got confused about src vs. binary indeed
<infinity> pitti: Kay.  Maybe I'll just hint that through later after I upload a matching d-i.  So, in the morning.
<pitti> infinity: I can also try and hack the state files
<infinity> pitti: Not sure I want to unwind the mess that makes that all go.  At least, not today.
<infinity> pitti: Hacking the status files doesn't seem any saner than a skip hint. :P
<infinity> pitti: And more potentially error-prone.  And harder to debug after the fact, if someone's curious.
<pitti> ok
<infinity> It won't migrate without d-i anyway, so I'll make it go in the morning.
<ev> thanks pitti!
<pitti> ev: good morning
<ev> morning :)
<mlankhorst> infinity: did you fix llvm? :P
<infinity> mlankhorst: I ended up stuck dealing with real estate people and lawyers.  So, not the best fun ever.
<infinity> mlankhorst: I'll poke llvm tomorrow.
<mlankhorst> thanks, it blocks mesa 9.2 :-)
<infinity> mlankhorst: Kay.  Remind me tomorrow as you're EODing, and I'll hammer at it.
<infinity> mlankhorst: Well, s/tomorrow/today/ for you, I guess.
<mlankhorst> sure, np
<smartboyhw> xnox, ardour failed in -proposed..
<guest09013651> hello
<infinity> libs/pbd/mountpoint.cc:96:23: fatal error: sys/ucred.h: No such file or directory
<infinity>  #include <sys/ucred.h>
<infinity> xnox: ^-- You've somehow made ardour decide it's compiling on FreeBSD?  Congrats. :P
<guest09013651> a question regarding those milestones over there:
<guest09013651> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy
<guest09013651> when i first saw those milestones (13.05, 13.06, 13.07, 13.08, 13.08, 13.09 and so on...), i thought there would be monthly releases from now on, coming with a ISO every month
<infinity> guest09013651: They're just planning targets.
<guest09013651> infinity: thanks for your reply. so nothing will change regarding the release cycle? release will be every six month, with a LTS release every two years in april? no rolling release?
<infinity> guest09013651: Right.
<guest09013651> infinity: hmm :(. just wondering: are you a ubuntu dev?
<smartboyhw> Ha, you never heard of how great infinity is:P
<guest09013651> infinity: no rolling release wouldn't be so bad if the following "bug" would be fixed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/578045 . does anyone here know if that "bug" will be fixe4d anytime soon?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 578045 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Upgrading packaged Ubuntu application unreasonably involves upgrading entire OS" [High,In progress]
<guest09013651> -4
<infinity> guest09013651: Out of curiosity, what benefit would you be hoping to derive from a "rolling release"?
<guest09013651> infinity: see above. i would rather prefer seeing the following bug get fixed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/578045
<guest09013651> it's one of the mosy annoying bugs IMHO, if not _the_ most annoying
<infinity> guest09013651: I'm not sure that's even a bug, and it certainly isn't solved by rolling releases.  A rolling release just means you get to "upgrade your entire OS" even more often.  Exactly the opposite of the bug's goal.
<guest09013651> infinity: yeah, but with new ubuntu releases there come upgraded applications
<guest09013651> if you don't upgrade os, no upgraded applications :(
<infinity> I've heard that rumour, yes.
<guest09013651> at least if you don't use PPAs
<guest09013651> why rumour?
<infinity> guest09013651: Basically, what you're asking for is to backport the world from every release to every release.  I imagine you can see how that might be untenable.
<infinity> If what you want is all the new shiny, you can run the development release.
<smartboyhw> guest09013651, that's why we need "stable releases"...
<guest09013651> actually i care more about updated applications than i care about updated os
<infinity> If that you want is a few backported packages on a stable release, that's doable.  But not everyone wants the same backported packages, so, some effort needs to go into the ones you want, sometimes.
<guest09013651> stable os with updated applications would be fine :)
<infinity> guest09013651: One man's "OS" is another man's "application".  Where do you draw the line between "core stuff I think can be stale" and "fun stuff I want to be shiny"?
<lifeless> infinity: the kernel.
<infinity> (For instance, I bet I care a lot more about compilers than you do)
<smartboyhw> lifeless, I will care for more:P
<infinity> lifeless: Sarcasm has no place in a conversation with me.
<smartboyhw> Oh, that's sarcasm, I didn't realize that...
<lifeless> infinity: who was being sarcastic?
<infinity> lifeless: Oh, wait.  No.  I probably have that backwards.
<pitti> (which sounds a lot less funny on IRC if you don't actually know infinity in person..)
<lifeless> infinity: it's about to go meta...
<infinity> pitti: :)
<guest09013651> well, in ms windows for example, you can have latest applications pretty much regardless of the os version, just by downloading a simple to use installer, and the apps even do auuto-update if the app does have such a feature. and it's like that for the very old windows xp just as it is for the new windows 7 or windows 8
<guest09013651> it would be nice if it would be like that for ubuntu as well
<guest09013651> IMHO
<pitti> the fun thing is that the thing that always annoys me most on a Windows box is how excruciatingly difficult it is to install all stuff :)
<infinity> guest09013651: Yes, because Microsoft provides stable APIs all the way down.  This isn't, fundamentally, how the FLOSS world works.  It's not as simple as "just do what Windows does" and we're done.
<infinity> guest09013651: Anyhow, what you seem to want is, I can't stress enough, exactly the opposite of "rolling releases", so please don't conflate the terms.
<infinity> guest09013651: What you seem to want is our LTS to be a pared-down core with a stable set of libraries, and then to have us compile all the new shiny on top of that stable base.
<infinity> guest09013651: Which, for some new shiny, is accomplished via the backports pocket.
<smartboyhw> That would be very difficult..
<smartboyhw> All I mean
<infinity> guest09013651: But we can't, it turns out, read minds and determine which things people want backported.
<smartboyhw> !backports
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<smartboyhw> guest09013651, ^
<guest09013651> no offense intented, but IMHO that is very user UNfriendly...
<xnox> infinity: i fixed one bug in ardour, not all. and uploaded (to save time for the next person fixing the first linking bug). Why it's thinking it's compiling on FreeBSD i'm not entirely sure. Not-finding-multiarch-fallout?
<guest09013651> i could very well imagine most users would prefer it the windows way
<smartboyhw> It is user-friendly if the users want stability
<infinity> guest09013651: Everyone often imagines that all users want it the same way they do.
<infinity> guest09013651: I can assure you that my own personal bias leans the other direction.
<pitti> or those of most non-technical people I know
<infinity> xnox: No idea, all I did was glance at the build log, it's just an entertaining message, given that header is decidedly BSD-specific.
<guest09013651> infinity: maybe do a survey / poll on this topic ;)?
<xnox> infinity: =) ok.
<infinity> guest09013651: A survey and/or poll probably isn't enough to make us complete upend our development and release process.  I'm not sure you grasp what it is you're asking for, in the scope of a project that ships with 21 thousand packages.
<smartboyhw> It would be MONSTROUS.:P
<infinity> guest09013651: Windows is a tiny core with a ton of third party developers.  That's incentive for them to work the way they do, and it's a mess for updating, verifying sources, etc.
 * infinity decides it's bedtime in Canadia.
<smartboyhw> infinity, Canada you mean?
<smartboyhw> :O
<guest09013651> a question regardin this:
<guest09013651> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<guest09013651> "Security Support for Backports - Unlike the packages released with Ubuntu, Backports do not come with any security support guarantee."
<infinity> smartboyhw: Canadia, where the rivers flow with maple syrup, it snows all year 'round, and the women all say "aboot".
<guest09013651> does that mean that every app that comes officialy with an LTS will definitely (guaranteed) be updated if the version that initially shipped with the LTS has security flaws?
<xnox> guest09013651: read wiki pages about security updates & stable release updates.
<xnox> guest09013651: don't just derive from what backports page says =)
<infinity> guest09013651: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ
<guest09013651> infinity: thanks, still reading, but found a "bug" ;p: there is a headline on that page which says "Update Manager doesn't prompt for security updates" but it looks like that headline should rather say "Update Manager doesn't prompt for a password"?
<guest09013651> ;)
<guest09013651> a question: at the very top of that page it says "Security updates are in part prioritized based on severity of impact, exploitability and number of affected users.". Does that meant, that, if, for example, not enough users are affected, no security update will be made :S?
<xnox> guest09013651: it means what it says "given multiple security flaws the most severe one is patched first" Plus one can help creating the security updates, join #ubuntu-hardened and help out creating security updates.
<guest09013651> xnox: thx for reply. i am not a coder though ;).
<smartboyhw> xnox, how can I help then?
<xnox> guest09013651: none of us were when we started ;-)
<smartboyhw> xnox, ^
<pete-woods> dednick: hi - I've been sent to investigate the indicators messages fault
<xnox> infinity: ardour conditionalise on HAVE_GETMNTENT, which it correctly finds on my machine, not sure why same check fails on buildd.
<infinity> xnox: Missing a build-dep?
<xnox> infinity: libc6-dev?! don't think so, defined in /usr/include/mntent.h
 * smartboyhw thinks xnox didn't reply to him:(
<xnox> smartboyhw: did you read wiki? e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved
<smartboyhw> xnox, yhes
<smartboyhw> *yes
<smartboyhw> So, what do you recommend me to do?
<xnox> smartboyhw: i wouldn't recommend anything =) i'm yet to do a security update.
<xnox> myself that is.
<smartboyhw> .........................
<Laney> talk in #ubuntu-hardened
<guest09013651> a question regarding the firefox vs chromium discussion as mentioned over there:
<guest09013651> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQzNDQ
<guest09013651> IF chromium should become default in 14.04 (i hope not), will firefox still be updated immediately like it is now?
<smartboyhw> guest09013651, ye
<smartboyhw> *yes
<guest09013651> k
<guest09013651> does anyone here know why those:
<guest09013651> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/is-this-new-ubuntu-1204-precise.html
<guest09013651> never were released?
<guest09013651> the look much better than the current icons IMHO
<guest09013651> *they
<guest09013651> those icons mentioned above and something like this: https://plus.google.com/114762164224008090488/posts/ex4tNv2KWSW , https://plus.google.com/103374404688704893776/posts/FoBprJKgnF2 , https://plus.google.com/103374404688704893776/posts/6HTj8mp9eY6 would make Ubuntu look quite a bit nicer :)
<xnox> seb128: so bug 1206314 is not migrating from -proposed to -release. It looks like "unity-webapps-angrybirds, unity-webapps-cuttherope, unity-webapps-lordofultima, unity-webapps-tiberiumalliances" need removal cause the new webapps-applications is not compatible with those.
<ubottu> bug 1206314 in webapps-applications (Ubuntu) "install-default-webapps-in-launcher.py crashed with signal 5 in g_settings_get_mapped()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206314
<xnox> seb128: do you know when robru is around? and/or if removing those packages is the correct intend?
<xnox> (bug in question is triggered on each new installation / user account)
<seb128> xnox, no, I don't, maybe kenvandine or didrocks know
<zyga> is it possible that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pam/+bug/871083 affects python because python has some internal copy of the same code?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 871083 in libtasn1-3 (Ubuntu Precise) "gzip -9n sometimes generates a different output file on different architectures" [Medium,Triaged]
<zyga> gzip -9 being not deterministic
<zyga> this is on python3.2 from precise
<zyga> I just got hit by something that appears to be this bug while writing unit tests for my library
<zyga> I think this is the case
<didrocks> seb128: xnox: he's travelling today, so will be around tomorrow evening (starting at ~6PM UTC)
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<jdstrand> cjwatson: hi! if I run 'click build' in a directory, I get a package of the form-- $pkgname_$version_$arch.click. I just came across a package that is $pkgname-$version.click
<jdstrand> cjwatson: (that second one was when performing a review)
<jdstrand> cjwatson: realizing click probably doesn't care, I'd like to know what to expect from click build and the tools for the appstore
<jdstrand> cjwatson: is $pkgname_$version_$arch.click expected?
<seb128> jdstrand, hey, I think cjwatson is on holidays this week (just mentioning it in case that's useful info)
<jdstrand> heh, it is useful to know someone won't respond
<jdstrand> seb128: thanks :)
<seb128> yw ;-)
<jdstrand> cjwatson: nm, enjoy your holiday. I'll take it to a mailing list
<jamespage> Laney, that golang cross compile issue should be fixed today - about to merge from debian for the fix
<jdstrand> cjwatson: oh, doubly nm-- it was a script of mine that did 'mv *_all.click *_$arch.click'
<hyperair> https://github.com/rogerwang/node-webkit/issues/136 <-- yay symlink libudev.so.1 onto libudev.so.0
 * hyperair holds his head in frustration
<hyperair> and even better, there's a bloody script here https://github.com/rogerwang/node-webkit/wiki/The-solution-of-lacking-libudev.so.0 that makes the global symlink
<hyperair> oh god whyyyy
<dobey> mardy: ping again :)
<mardy> dobey: pong :-)
<dobey> mardy: hi! another problem. i've got the account created successfully and secret stored, but am having trouble getting the secret back out. when i do queryInfo() on the Identity object, and then do info.secret() on the result, it returns an empty string. even immediately after i added the secret, within the same process
<dobey> mardy: so i'm wondering how i can successfully get the secret back out
<pitti> sforshee: hey Seth, how are you?
<pitti> sforshee: can you please forward the two patches in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/147642052/upower_0.9.21-1build1_0.9.21-1ubuntu1.diff.gz to upstream?
<mardy> dobey: yep, that's expected, in order to get the secret you need to go through the authentication
<dobey> more authentication?
<mardy> dobey: if you use the "password" method and "password" mechanism, you'll get the password in the SessionData
<dobey> yes i am using that method/mechanism
<mardy> dobey: however, won't you write a proper signon plugin?
<mardy> dobey: it would be nice if we could disable the "password" method for the U1 account
<dobey> mardy: yes. i'm just trying to get something working as quickly as possible. the signon plug-in is having some issues. and i don't think we'll be able to get it working fully as they are expected to work, by end of this week (which is basically when this needs to be done)
<mardy> dobey: OK. Another option is that you write down how the authentication works, and ask pmcgowan if I can take a couple of days to write the plugin for you
<dobey> what do you mean "how the authentication works" ?
<Laney> jamespage: SUH-WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!
<mardy> dobey: like, what steps need to be done in order to get the token
<dobey> what do i need to do just to get the 'password' back out?
<sforshee> pitti: I did send them upstream, but they never made it past moderation on the list
<mardy> dobey: QML or C++?
<dobey> C++
<mardy> dobey: from the Identity, create an AuthSession object, using "password" as method
<sforshee> pitti: I included the maintainer on the messages too, but haven't heard anything back from him either
<mardy> dobey: then call authSession->process(SessionData(), "password")
<pitti> sforshee: ah, because I'm on the upstream list and didn't see anything
<mardy> dobey: and listen for the response(SessionData) signal
<pitti> sforshee: that's devkit-devel@?
<sforshee> pitti: yes
<mardy> dobey: whenit's emitted, you should find the password in it
<dobey> mardy: every app that wants to get the password, has to do that?
<pitti> sforshee: https://bugs.freedesktop.org tracks the upower bugs, FTR
<mardy> dobey: yes
<dobey> ok
<pitti> sforshee: yeah, david zeuthen left red hat, so I guess the list isn't being moderated often these days :/
<stokachu> slangasek: would it be possible to get me added to the ubuntu group that can approve nominations in launchpad?
<sforshee> pitti: do you suggest I open a bug then? Richard Hughes should have the patches, even if they haven't appeared on the list.
<pitti> sforshee: that, or asking him on IRC (but he's out today, not feeling well according to G+)
<sforshee> pitti: ack, I'll follow up
<dobey> mardy: seems to be working now. thanks!
<dobey> hyperair: because people ship "node apps" with pre-compiled node binary included, and it's i guess built on an old system that requires the .so.0, so instad of learning how to package things proerly, they just make symlinks.
<hyperair> dobey: yeah and upstream's just telling people to do that instead of offering a better solution
<hyperair> ugh
<mardy> dobey: nice!
<dobey> mardy: would like to do proper signon plug-in and all, but doing that right will require quite some big refactoring of our current code, while this will let us get it working and usable at least, even if it isn't quite how uoa is designed to work
<brendand> my rules file is trying to run qmake && make && make install, but at the moment make install seems to fail due to permissions when trying to mkdir's. is there any way to get around that? this is in a pbuilder chroot btw (important detail i guess)
<rbasak> brendand: is make install happening in one of the binary targets? The build target must be able to run without root.
<xnox> brendand: it should use DESTDIR to install e.g. into debian/tmp/ and not onto /
<brendand> rbasak, i put the call to make install in override_dh_install
<brendand> xnox, DESTDIR where?
<brendand> xnox, in the pro files?
<rbasak> OK, then what xnox said. You want make install to build into the build area, not your build system itself. DESTDIR is supported by some build systems to add a prefix to the build location. make install DESTDIR=... or DESTDIR make install etc.
<bdmurray> slangasek: who would be a good person to have a look at bug 1214352?
<ubottu> bug 1214352 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "GUINT32/64_SWAP_LE_BE macros do not enclose val argument in parentheses" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214352
<rbasak> install into the build area that is
<xnox> brendand: one builds a package, the upstream build-system should install not into "/" but into same hierachy as "/" but locally, e.g. into debian/tmp or debian/package. Typically this build-system feature is called install into DESTDIR, due to make/automake terminology.
<xnox> brendand: you can skip dh_auto_install all-together (e.g. leave an empty override_dh_auto_install:) and install the files you want/need simply using dh_install and a debian/package.install file.
<xnox> brendand: maybe look at other packages that use the same build-system as qmake, we should have plenty in the archive.
<Siebjee> Does some one know the new IRC channel of Canonical, or has a phone numer of the sales department ?
<ChogyDan> Siebjee's usual contacts aren't working.  I thought someone here might have a lead or something
<sil2100> kenvandine: quickie -> https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/ubuntu-ui-extras/packaging_review/+merge/181075
<slangasek> stokachu: so the logical team to add you to for this is https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release-nominators, which is currently owned by Kate; I'll email her about possibly getting that transferred, and then adding you to the team
<sil2100> Mirv: (in case you're around already) ^
<slangasek> infinity: do you think you could have a look at bug #1214352 (see above from bdmurray)?  seems like a straightforward upstream patch to fix a macro in glib; I guess once fixed they'll want a libreoffice rebuild
<ubottu> bug 1214352 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "GUINT32/64_SWAP_LE_BE macros do not enclose val argument in parentheses" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214352
<Mirv> sil2100: approved, only looked through the changes not the whole packaging
<sil2100> Mirv: thanks ;) Life saver ;)
<Laney> moving that --fail-missing is a strange standard to have
 * ogra_ makes a note to never work for the desktop team ... these "life saver" statements from sil2100 sound like a lot of death threads are going on there :)
<sil2100> It's risky business, it's no easy job!
<ogra_> :)
<didrocks> ogra_: if only you knew!
<slangasek> jamespage: samba upstart> you probably want samba 2:3.6.17-2, which fully merges the upstart stuff into unstable and is a pending upload now-ish.  But a merge shouldn't revert anything, as it hadn't yet landed in unstable before now so a merge shouldn't affect it
<jamespage> slangasek, ack
<seb128> Laney, thanks for the review/approval ;-)
<Laney> np
<slangasek> jodh, smb: so a correct setup for this would be: 64bit host kernel; 64- or 32-bit outer VM, according to what the current test case targets; and an inner VM that matches the outer VM
<smb> slangasek, I would just use qemu, which is alternates for the same arch
<slangasek> jodh: before we start diving into questions of qemu misbehavior, we should ensure we have this baseline correct
<slangasek> jodh: can you reconfirm the bug with smb's suggestion?
<slangasek> ('qemu' instead of 'kvm')
<jodh> slangasek: at smb's suggestion, I am currently using 'qemu -enable-kvm -cpu core2duo ...'
<smb> The core2duo to find out whether that enables VMX inside the next level of nested
<smb> Since the crashes/hangs where happening when setting up the 2nd level guest from the first level, I never went deeper
<slangasek> jodh: please also check whether this problem is reproducible on a 32-bit/32-bit configuration.  If that works, we can sidestep the bug for now and get i386-only testing going, which will already help
<slangasek> of course we ultimately want testing for both i386 and amd64, but if i386 is the low-hanging fruit, let's get that automated and tackle amd64 second
<jodh> slangasek: ack - I'll crank the handle on that particular combo with smb's latest options...
<slangasek> jodh: if you're doing 32+32, you shouldn't need or care about -cpu core2duo at all
<slangasek> smb: do you have a suggested qemu commandline for a 32bit-only guest?
<smoser> ok, i'm late to the party here, but is it not sufficient to say
<smb> slangasek, As I said, I would just use "qemu" + whatever command line was there, just not qemu-system-<arch> for the moment
<smoser> qemu-system-i386 ?
<smoser> smb, ? thats broken ?
<smb> smoser, no maybe qemu-system-x86_64 on a 32bit guest
<smb> to start another 32bit guest
<slangasek> smb: so if you run 'qemu' at each level, you'll get: 64bit host CPU/kernel/userspace; 64bit outer guest CPU w/ 32bit outer guest kernel/userspace; 32-bit inner guest CPU/kernel/userspace
<slangasek> smb: is that what you want us to try?
<smoser> i'm lost. if qemu-system-x86_64 ever gives you anything other than a 64 bit system, something is wrong.
<smoser> similarly with qemu-system-i386
<smoser> thats a bug
<smoser> it should fail
<mlankhorst> infinity: EOD For me, so bump for llvm-toolchain-3.3, mesa 9.2 is in debian-experimental now so the clock is ticking ;P
<smb> slangasek, Might be a point. And the reason why with that there is no VMX inside the guest...
<slangasek> smb: so, do we need to always run 64-bit for the outer guest?
<slangasek> is it sufficient to always run 64-bit CPU, even if we do 32-bit kernel+userspace?
<smb> slangasek, That could be the outcome. So the first level inner guest has a 64bit cpu with VMX but 32bit userspace and then can run an inner guest with 32bit with kvm enabled
<slangasek> smoser: the question isn't whether qemu-system-x86_64 always gives you a 64-bit guest CPU, the question is whether it gives you something that *works* given the above :)
<smoser> right, but i though tyou were inadvertantly getting the x86_64 -> i386 -> x86_64 transition.
<slangasek> jodh: is the above clear to you?  if your host is 64-bit userspace, it should be sufficient to always run 'qemu' for the outer VM (giving you a 64-bit CPU), and for the inner VM either qemu-system-i386 or qemu-system-x86_64 *depending* on which architecture you're testing
<smb> What I have not yet tried to is to look what would happend when I use a different release in the 1rst and/or second level guest. I could not be sure this combination had issues for longer that we think
<smb> *than
<jodh> slangasek: that is clear, but to be clear, in an autopkgtest env, there are *four* systems: the host, the provided guest (kvm instance 1), the autopkgtest env (kvm instance 2), and my test instance (kvm instance 3). I don't know anything about the host (canonistack).
<smb> smoser, I think it gets confusing as we end up with various mixes of 32/64 bit cpus and users-space
<jodh> slangasek: do we know for example what the host h/w is when requesting an i386 guest?
<slangasek> jodh: sorry, I don't understand what instance 1 vs. instance 2 are supposed to be
<slangasek> we are not currently nesting VMs for autopkgtest, and upstart tests should only require adding a single level
<smb> jodh, I think we can assume its 64bit as it probably would otherwise not give you VMX inside your guest
<slangasek> jodh: we can reasonably assume it's 64-bit hardware :)
 * slangasek nods
<jodh> slangasek: nested=Y is set inside the canonistack guest which is where autopkgtest creates its kvm instance.
<slangasek> jodh: AIUI nested=Y only tells you that nesting has been enabled, it does not imply that you are already nested
<jodh> smb/slangasek: I will hack the scripts again and try with 'qemu -enable-kvm' in all layers.
<smb> We probably cannot say anything about host userspace but usually I'd expect 64bit
<smoser> wll, it is quite possible (and even correct) that if you asked for a 32 bit instance from canonistack that it would give you something only capable of 32 bit.
<smoser> if you run the ubuntu cloud images, they should be registered correctly to get the correct arch
<slangasek> jodh: and I'm quite certain that there is *not* any nesting going on except for the nesting you're doing - which means the autopkgtest VM you're running your tests in is itself running directly on the host, not on another guest
<slangasek> smoser: yes - which means that for our purposes, we probably want all our upstart autopkgtests run *only* on an amd64 guest, to ensure we have VMX available
<smb> smoser, It seems to give an emulated core2duo, whatever that is/was
<smb> WEll not emulated but feature masked
<smb> smoser, Ok that seems to say LM -> so 64bit cpu
<infinity> slangasek: When did I become the glib maintainer too? :)
<slangasek> infinity: it's only one letter off
<slangasek> besides, it's a C macro, and I know you love those
<xnox> =)
<infinity> slangasek: Seems like a straightforward enough SRU, a sane testcase that isn't "build Libreoffice and run it" might be nice.
 * infinity reads more closely.
<infinity> Oh, hrm.  The claim that it requires a rebuild of all rdeps, though.  lolwut?
<infinity> Oh, I see what they're driving at.  Needs a recompile to fix the bug.  Obviously.
<infinity> I briefly thought the comment meant "this breaks ABI, and everything that depends on glib needs rebuilding".
<stokachu> slangasek: re nominators: sounds good man thanks!
<arges> Hi, on merges.ubuntu.com, whats the difference between outstanding and updated merges?
<arges> slangasek: hi. i'm looking at an issue with ifupdown. I have no idea how to patch this because it seems that the sources don't show up until I use debuild. any suggestions?
<mapreri> arges: update are packages that have a previus version already merged in the current ubuntu development release but a new version is available in debian. Outstandig are packages nobody have already took care for this development cycle.
<arges> mapreri: so updated packages will automatically get the new debian version? or is this work the maintainer still needs to do
<xnox> arges: everything still needs a merge, it's just "updated packages" have already been merged during the current cycle, thus should be (hypothetically) easier to merge, not as urgent to merge, nothing interesting to merge.
<mapreri> arges: someone should take care of it, there is no automation for package listed on those pages.
<arges> mapreri: ack
<arges> xnox: ok
<slangasek> arges: the source of ifupdown is an experiment in "literate programming"; so the source isn't in C, it's in nowebm which spits out C along the way :/
<arges> slangasek: ahh... so if i want to get something like this backported: http://anonscm.debian.org/hg/collab-maint/ifupdown/rev/a93db3ecb8f0; i need to patch a nowebm source?
<slangasek> arges: yes.  Is newer ifupdown no longer using nowebm as the source?
<infinity> I love the confidence in (Possibly closes: #704003)
<arges> so yea i tested it and it seems to close it for 0.7.44 + that one patch
<arges> but i don't know how to properly patch 0.7* versions that are in ubuntu, since the HG patch seems to be against c source
<arges> slangasek: let me triple check
<arges> slangasek: if i do 'pull-debian-source ifupdown sid' i can see the 'main.c' file in the sources
<arges> so it patches there, but in the precise version (for example) 0.7.5ubuntu4, it doesn't generate the main.c file until i do 'debuild'
<slangasek> arges: interesting; apparently upstream switched away from noweb in January \o/
<slangasek> arges: so yeah, you need to apply that patch manually to the nowebm source
<arges> slangasek: ok i'll dig on this a bit. i wasn't able to easily find where those sources were but i'll trace through the debian/rules file to figure it out. thanks
<slangasek> arges: it's all in ifupdown.nw, fwiw.
<arges> slangasek: ah
<arges> slangasek: the other question is, fixing ifupdown in saucy, should i wait until you do the merge from debian? (either way it needs a patch)
<slangasek> arges: I had no plans to merge it for saucy, I think you're better to just cherry-pick
<arges> slangasek: ok
<slangasek> jamespage: fyi, samba 3.6.18-1 now uploaded to unstable
 * mlankhorst pokes infinity a bit more
<infinity> mlankhorst: Ow.
 * infinity fires up a POWER5 and grabs the llvm source.
<Noskcaj> kirkland, roaksoax: Do either of you have time to merge my testdrive branch?
<kirkland> Noskcaj: yep;  I'll try to get to it tonight ;-)
<Noskcaj> kirkland, thanks
<Uninstall_> hello
<Uninstall_> I need some feedback on a problem reported by someone else about eglibc on ubuntu 13.04
<infinity> Uninstall_: And that problem would be?
<Uninstall_> infinity: this one: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-August/037562.html
<Uninstall_> I get the same error here
<infinity> Uninstall_: Following his same steps, I'm sure you would.
<infinity> Uninstall_: 'dpkg-buildpackage -b' is more likely to lead to success.
<Uninstall_> infinity: I'm getting the same problem applying all the ubuntu patches on a different distro
<Uninstall_> and doing that manually
<Uninstall_> I think that ubuntu patches + eglibc should work fine together
<Uninstall_> so I suppose that I'm missing some configure option or stuff like that
<infinity> Uninstall_: Quite possibly.  Our configuration is rather complex, it's not just a ./configure
<Uninstall_> infinity: do you contribute to that stuff?
<infinity> Uninstall_: I do.  I don't really have the time to walk someone through it right now, though. :/
<Uninstall_> infinity: ok
<Uninstall_> infinity: anyway if you can see how configure is called properly it would be nice
<slangasek> Uninstall_: it's properly called via debian/rules (which is what 'dpkg-buildpackage -b' wraps); nothing else is guaranteed in the package
<infinity> Uninstall_: See debian/rules.d/build.mk and debian/sysdeps for the variables that populate those make targets.
<infinity> Uninstall_: (And what slangasek said)
<Uninstall_> thank you
<Uninstall_> do you have any other hypotesis about what it can be?
<sarnold> Uninstall_: if you want to pretend you're the build process, you can mimic the steps shown in the build logs: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/146345871/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.eglibc_2.17-91ubuntu1_UPLOADING.txt.gz
<Uninstall_> sarnold: it seems a good advice
<Uninstall_> i will take a look
<sarnold> Uninstall_: well, I don't know about _good_ advice, but it's advice. :) hehe.
<Uninstall_> sarnold: can you link me raring build log?
<sarnold> Uninstall_: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eglibc/2.17-0ubuntu5/+build/4501722/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-amd64.eglibc_2.17-0ubuntu5_UPLOADING.txt.gz
<sarnold> Uninstall_: (the others are available under the little triangle next to the packages at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eglibc  )
<Uninstall_> thank you
#ubuntu-devel 2013-08-21
<goddard> does nautilus have any bookmark bugs?
<goddard> because some of my bookmarks disappear and reappear
<pitti> Good morning
<infinity> Riddell: FYI: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnm-qt/0.0~git20130816-0ubuntu4
<dholbach> good morning
<mlankhorst> bah libx11 1.6.1-1 build is failing because of w3m crashing..
<infinity> mlankhorst: llvm3.2 uploaded, BTW.
<mlankhorst> \o/
<mlankhorst> infinity: after some testing of mesa 9.2 can llvm-3.3 be moved to main so mesa 9.2 can be uploaded?
<mlankhorst> doesn't have to be done today though
<infinity> mlankhorst: When you upload mesa 9.2 with an llvm-3.3 build-dep, let me know.
<infinity> mlankhorst: Do me a favour, though, and compare the llvm testsuite output from 3.2 and 3.3 and make sure we're not horribly regressing anywhere.  I didn't look closely, I just saw a few failures in my test build and wondered if it's always been that buggy and no one cares. :P
<mlankhorst> infinity: heh testsuite was passing on x86
<mlankhorst> at least the main one, dno about clang stuff
<infinity> mlankhorst: Well, define "passing".  The package ignores failures, so you have to hunt for them in the log.
<infinity> mlankhorst: But I wouldn't be shocked if x86 passes with flying colors, ARM fails a few, and every other arch fails more.
<infinity> mlankhorst: llvm upstream (and especially Apple) seem to fail miserably at actually building portable cross-compilers.
<mlankhorst> infinity: I know it does make check || true, but I did run the same thing manually
<mlankhorst> mainly to isolate why it was hanging on i386  to begin with
<infinity> mlankhorst: Realistically, if x86 and ARM are fine, that's Good Enough for now.
<mlankhorst> yeah
<infinity> mlankhorst: (Not that ppc appears to be in rough shape, it just had a few curious failures)
<ricotz> jamespage, hello :), please take a look at http://paste.debian.net/plain/27853
<mlankhorst> infinity: yay it builds
<infinity> mlankhorst: It would be rather embarassing if it didn't, after I test-built it locally. :P
<infinity> mlankhorst: (Though it sure does build FASTER on sagari than my machine... Time for an upgrade)
<infinity> mlankhorst: do you have a devirt PPA to test your mesa9.2 in, or do you want to toss some sources at me, and I can give them a spin?
<mlankhorst> I don't know if x-staging is de-virted or not
<mlankhorst> https://launchpad.net/~canonical-x/+archive/x-staging
<infinity> mlankhorst: It's devirt but doesn't have PPC turned on.  You should fix that, IMO.
<mlankhorst> ah right
<infinity> In fact, I'll fix that right now.
<mlankhorst> could you add a small priority bump too?
<mlankhorst> I think I'll use that one for the s lts-backports too then
<infinity> You shouldn't need one.
<mlankhorst> ok
<infinity> mlankhorst: PPC enabled on it now, though.  Doesn't make sense to skip arches on a staging PPA, IMO.  Cause you get everything just right, upload to the distro, and find out it's still broken. :P
<mlankhorst> hey I had that with armel, I just disable arm archs for lts backports now
<infinity> Which is a less than ideal situation and something we might need to revisit for 14.04's HWE plan.
<mlankhorst> yeah but the only hardware we support for arm is the pandaboard, and that one works best with precise xserver anyway..
<infinity> mlankhorst: Right, for precise, it was mostly a non-issue for that reason.
<infinity> mlankhorst: Well, we support more hardware, but it's all server kit, so doesn't affect you, really.
<mlankhorst> oh and there's no point backporting xorg if the kernel team doesn't support the kernel that's required for it..
<infinity> mlankhorst: We now have an lts-raring ARM generic kernel. ;)
<infinity> mlankhorst: (I still need to smack together the installer support for it, but the kernel's there)
<infinity> mlankhorst: But, again, that's mostly for server kit right now, so not really a concern for you.
<mlankhorst> yeah
<mlankhorst> I mostly disabled it on arm because it got in the way..
<infinity> mlankhorst: But some day, I'm sure, there will be ARM stuff with a GUI that we might want to actually try to support (other than crazy Android kernels on phones, that is).
<infinity> mlankhorst: Also, if build times were one of the concerns, the new buildds should mostly solve that.
<mlankhorst> mir will solve it!111eleventy
<infinity> mlankhorst: *smirk*
<mlankhorst> speaking of that are there any plans of backporting mir?
<infinity> Speaking with various hats on, "over my dead body".
<infinity> Backporting Mir and Unity8 would *not* be HWE, it would be jamming new features (lots of new features) into an LTS.
<mlankhorst> not to precise, but backports to the next lts
<jamespage> ricotz, hey
<infinity> 14.04 isn't that far away, people can wait.
<jamespage> ricotz, thats actually already been fixed in Debian - it just needs a merge
<mlankhorst> so from 14.10 to 14.04
<infinity> mlankhorst: Well, for 14.04, if Mir/Unity8 are the default desktop, then I guess we need to sort out what HWE will look like, yes.
<mlankhorst> hm true
<infinity> mlankhorst: I'm still fuzzy on if we plan to have a full native stack there by 14.04, or just XMir.
<mlankhorst> I think just xmir
<infinity> mlankhorst: If it's just XMir, then backporting the X stack (as we do now), should be Good Enough, I'd think, barring XMir bugs.
<infinity> Well, and possibly rebuilding XMir for ABI changes or whatever.
<infinity> That could get messy, if we plan to support two stacks again.
<infinity> Meh.
<infinity> We really need to have an HWE sprint to argue about all of this in person, over alcohol.
<infinity> I feel like IRC and Hangouts don't cut it for this sort of thing.
<mlankhorst> tbh the plan forward I see for mir is simply taking away features from x one at a time
<infinity> All I think we can all agree on is that HWE in 12.04 wasn't ideal, and we can do better.
<mlankhorst> like no longer relying on xserver for input, but mir passing input events to xorg-server
<mlankhorst> same for randr support, xorg-server being a client
<mlankhorst> and I guess eventually video support being a simple passthrough
<infinity> mlankhorst: If I was to try to put together an HWE sprint to hit each other in person and walk away with a sane(r) plan for the next LTS, who from the desktop side do you think I should get?
<mlankhorst> well not really desktop side, tjaalton has been the main other person working on it I think
<infinity> mlankhorst: I mean, we could do it as a series of video calls or something, but sometimes, you just need to be in smacking distance.
<mlankhorst> I'm the only person on desktop working on lts I think
<mlankhorst> but you should try to get raof and tjaalton
<tjaalton> :)
<tjaalton> actually, we'll be at plumbers (not raof though)
<mlankhorst> yeah
<mlankhorst> maybe some from the kernel team will be too
<tjaalton> let's hit bourbon street and come up with a plan, can't be worse than what we have, right :)
<mlankhorst> ogasawara: you coming to plumbers?
<tjaalton> the list is on wiki
<mlankhorst> ah right
<tjaalton> don't see ogasawara there
<tjaalton> but I think we have enough people
<mlankhorst> can always grab one of the other kernel people :P
<RAOF> mlankhorst, tjaalton: Neither of you are going to be at XDC, are you?
<tjaalton> nah
<mardy> cjwatson: hi! Given the unique name of a click package, will there be some API which returns it's display name, icon and maybe other metadata?
<mardy> s/it's/its/
<mlankhorst> RAOF: correct, I won't be able to make xdc :(
<RAOF> mlankhorst: Boo.
<mlankhorst> next year
<pitti> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 13.04 released | Archive: open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> raring | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: pitti
<seb128> pitti \o/
<pitti> seb128: salut mon amis, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> pitti, trÃ¨s bien, et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: mon aussi
<seb128> Mirv, dholbach:
<seb128> ./share/qtcreator/templates/wizards/ubuntu/cordovaubuntu/index.html: *No copyright* Apache (v2.0)
<seb128> ./share/qtcreator/templates/wizards/ubuntu/cordovaubuntu/css/index.css: *No copyright* Apache (v2.0)
<seb128> ./share/qtcreator/templates/wizards/ubuntu/cordovaubuntu/plugins.xml: *No copyright* Apache (v2.0)
<seb128>  
<seb128> the debian/copyright of qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu needs fixing
<dholbach> Mirv, weird, I must have missed that one
<dholbach> Mirv, let me know once you fixed it and I'll reupload
<Mirv> dholbach: darn. ok.
<dholbach> Mirv, I'll be gone briefly - but I'm running a test build of your qtcreator branch at the same time now - so just ping me when it's done and I'll take a look at it again
<seb128> Mirv, that package is weird
<seb128> Package: qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu-common
<seb128> Replaces: qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu (<= 2.7.1-0ubuntu4),
<seb128> d
<seb128> Mirv, it should also Conflicts with it or something...
<Mirv> dholbach: https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/add_apache_files_to_debian_copyright/+merge/181232 - added the conflicts as well
<mapreri> pitti: thank you :)
<pitti> mapreri: thanks for the merge
<mapreri> pitti: my pleasure
<dholbach> seb128, Mirv, uploaded
<seb128> dholbach, great
<Mirv> thank you Daniel
<dholbach> Mirv, qtcreator looks good and it passed a local build, so I'd upload it as soon as the other package is accepted
<mapreri> pitti: how do you uploaded the package? I see the branch now have a commit from me, but I pushed nothing. The previous package I merge don't have a branch updated with my name
<Mirv> dholbach: excellent news!
<seb128> Mirv, did you meant to add an extra else before the if in that new upload?
<dholbach> seb128, let me reupload
<seb128> dholbach, is that a "no"? I'm just wondering if that was wanted or not
<Mirv> seb128: no, dholbach removed one extra else
<dholbach> seb128, maybe it didn't contain the newest fix yet, but just the debian/co* changes
<dholbach> seb128, I uploaded a new one which should have all the newest fixes (removing the 'else' + copyright + control file changes)
<seb128> dholbach, the one at the top of the queue still has the extra else
<seb128> dholbach, I'm going for lunch, just ping didrocks once you reupload with that fixed and he's going to ack it
<didrocks> dholbach: can you just ping me once you reupload?
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> ;)
<seb128> didrocks, dholbach: thanks
 * seb128 bbiab
<didrocks> seb128: enjoy!
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> mapreri: the lp:ubuntu/<pkgname> branches are auto-updated from the archive, by a "package import robot"
<dholbach> didrocks, uploaded
<didrocks> dholbach: seb128: NEWed
<mapreri> pitti: i know (~package-importer lp user, i guess), but what's about ecl? I merged it some days ago (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecl/12.12.1-3ubuntu1) but the code still old (https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/ecl/saucy)
<dholbach> didrocks, seb128, Mirv: ROCK!
<Mirv> dholbach: seb128: rock rock!
<dholbach> Mirv, uploading qtcreator now too
 * Mirv repeats
<dholbach> Mirv, or do we want to wait until the new package is out of binary new?
<pitti> mapreri: yeah, unfortunately a lot of UDD branches are broken/behind
<Mirv> dholbach: it'd be better, since the new QtC binaries depend on that
<mapreri> pitti: well...
<Mirv> qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu just built and landed in queue
<dholbach> ^ if somebody could get that out of binary NEW, that'd be awesome
<didrocks> done
<dholbach> didrocks, AWESOME
<dholbach> Mirv, ...
<dholbach>   Uploading qtcreator_2.7.1-0ubuntu5_source.changes: done.
<dholbach> Successfully uploaded packages.
<Mirv> dholbach: awesome, now PPAs and archives are again in sync!
<dholbach> Mirv, let me know once you have your developer application set up and I'll add an endorsement :)
<Mirv> dholbach: haha, ok :)
<Mirv> I'll, when it happens
<seb128> didrocks, dholbach, Mirv: great, thanks
<didrocks> yw
<cyphermox> slangasek: didrocks mentioned you said you could help with some packaging review for new packages -- I'm adding lp:indicator-keyboard today
<didrocks> slangasek: ignore that ping, seb128 just told he already reviewed it
<cyphermox> slangasek: scratch that
<cyphermox> right
<pitti> Sweetshark: does it still make sense for bug 1194740 to be on the sponsoring queue? seems you are already at it
<ubottu> bug 1194740 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Precise) "[precise] Saving xls files originally created in Excel 2003 causes considerable increase of file size" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1194740
 * pitti unsubscribes sponsors
<xnox> pitti: i thought it needs upload/copy into -proposed
<pitti> xnox: yes, but Sweetshark already has it in a PPA, and thus I guess he has it in some packaging git
<pitti> I left a comment on the bug
<seb128> pitti, xnox: Sweetshark is waiting on sponsoring for libreoffice updates to precise and raring for a while
<seb128> bdrung is busy
<seb128> DBM doesn't want to give him upload right
<seb128> and nobody else is having wanting to review/sponsor libreoffice it seems
<pitti> seb128: right, that's bug 1204449, right?
<ubottu> bug 1204449 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[SRU] LibreOffice 4.0.4 for Ubuntu 13.04 (raring)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204449
<seb128> pitti, I guess, there is also one for precise
<seb128> Sweetshark, ^?
<xnox> seb128: pitti: as far as I remember it only mattered to be fixed in precise, with quantal/raring of lower or even no priority.
<pitti> Sweetshark: do you have a source.changes to go along with the raring 4.0.4 upload, so that I don't mess up with re-building the source?
<hallyn_> hm, odd.  i have this lvm LV that refuses to let me remove it.  not mounted anywhere, not showing up in lsof...
<xnox> hallyn_: snapshot? /var/lib/schroot/mount/saucy-amd64-27cbc3c9-bb0e-4086-b6de-410643ade53e/
<xnox> hallyn_: ah... http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=618016
<ubottu> Debian bug 618016 in lvm2 "lvremove sometimes fails to remove snapshot volumes" [Important,Open]
<hallyn_> xnox: no, it had snapshots but all have been removed...  so yeah, maybe that bug  (/me goes to look)
<pitti> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 13.04 released | Archive: open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> raring | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<hallyn_> xnox: makes me feel less secure in having everything depending on lvm :)
<xnox> hallyn_: tell me about it =)
<hallyn_> but i've not seen this before
 * hallyn_ descending into "see this bug" dereferencing hell
<xnox> hallyn_: i only recently found out that "cosmic rays" is not a joke, but actual problem affecting electronics, especially on higher altitudes and may have caused a few plane / rocket crashes.
<hallyn_> <grimace>
<hallyn_> ecc, it's not just for cool kids anymore
<hallyn_> xnox: alas, while [ $? -eq "5" ]; do sudo lvremove -f /dev/vg0/c-saucy-delme; done doesn't work for me :)
<hallyn_> all right, i guess i'll just be stashing those in /dev/vg0/*-delme
<rtg> hallyn_, stgraber: I'm getting lxc package install errors on 2 different precise servers. How can I figure out why ?
<rtg> Setting up lxc (0.7.5-3ubuntu67) ...
<rtg> Feature buffer full.dpkg: error processing lxc (--configure):
<rtg>  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1
<rtg> Errors were encountered while processing:
<rtg>  lxc
<rtg> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<rtg> both are running LTS kernels
<stgraber> rtg: looks like it may be the upstart job failing to start, anything interesting in /var/log/upstart/lxc*.log?
<rtg> stgraber, o such file
<rtg> no*
<mitya57> Mirv: Are we landing Qt 5.1? I see you were adding some commits to qtbase branch...
<rtg> stgraber, its working on a stock precise install with a 3.2 kernel
<stgraber> rtg: if you want a quick workaround, try the lxc in precise-backports. I'll have to get myself a 12.04.3 VM to see what's going on.
<rtg> stgraber, I have backports enabled already
<rtg> same package name ?
<stgraber> rtg: yep
<rtg> stgraber, its a Saucy LTS kernel though, not Raring
<hallyn_> rtg: which kernel package exactly?
<hallyn_> stgraber: are you setting that up right now?  (if not, i can try on an instance)
<rtg> hallyn_, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/s-lts-backport
<stgraber> hallyn_: I've got the .iso here but haven't installed the VM yet, so if you can quickly test in an instance, go ahead
<seb128> dholbach, Mirv: shouldn't be the dummy qtcreator-plugin-cordovaqt arch: all?
<seb128> dholbach, Mirv: binNEWed qtcreator anyway, not a blocker
<dholbach> seb128, yep, that'd make sense - let me file a bug on qtcreator to track it
<seb128> dholbach, thanks
<rtg> hallyn_, appears to work on a abre metal machine with a Raring LTS kernel (which is essentially the point release config)
<wzssyqa> doko: how to checkout gcc svn? svn co svn://svn.debian.org/svn/gcccvs/branches/sid/gcc-4.8 seems cannot work
<dholbach> seb128, Mirv: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtcreator/+bug/1214955
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1214955 in qtcreator (Ubuntu) "qtcreator-plugin-cordovaqt should be "Architecture: all"" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> dholbach, danke
<dholbach> de rien mon ami
<mitya57> Mirv: Also, I've just made our qtbase packaging a bit more close to Debian
<doko> wzssyqa, works for me
<mitya57> Mirv: if we are going to upload 5.1, I'll update all universe stuff and try to land qtcomponents and qtdoc
<rtg> hallyn_, it definitely seems to be kernel related, e.g., 3.11 doesn't work whereas 3.8 does. I guess that is a problem for the .4 point release.
<hallyn_> rebooting my precise instance now
<hallyn_> rtg: yeah, reproduced.  checking postinst
<slangasek> bdmurray: bug #1214719: does that look like a known casper bug to you?
<ubottu> bug 1214719 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "package plymouth-theme-ubuntu-text 0.8.8-0ubuntu6.2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214719
<bdmurray> slangasek: looking
<hallyn_> ubuntu@ip-10-31-166-138:~/lxc-0.7.5/debian$ sudo /lib/init/apparmor-profile-load lxc-containers
<hallyn_> Feature buffer full.ubuntu@ip-10-31-166-138:~/lxc-0.7.5/debian$
<hallyn_> I did wonder where "feature buffer full" came from
<hallyn_> no jjohansen around :(
<hallyn_> sarnold: ^
<hallyn_> rtg: I'm guessing that kernel is missing an apparmor patch from jjohansen
<rtg> hallyn_, possibly. lemme check
<rtg> hallyn_, actually, the saucy kernel should be ahead of raring, e.g., "UBUNTU: SAUCE: (no-up) apparmor: Sync to apparmor 3 - alpha 4 snapshot"
<rtg> maybe its just broken
<rtg> hallyn_, or perhaps its a userspace issue 'cause this works on saucy with the same kernel
<hallyn_> lessee - libfirt should fail the same way
<hallyn_> but it didn't
<jamespage> slangasek, any idea on why use of the embedded tevent source was dropped in Debian for samba?
<hallyn_> jdstrand: will jjohansen be in today?  (it's august... :( )
<hallyn_> sudo /sbin/apparmor_parser -r -W /etc/apparmor.d/lxc/lxc-default also gives me "Feature buffer full."
<slangasek> jamespage: other than the obvious "embedded copies are bad"? :)
<jamespage> slangasek, well I don't disagree with that sentiment
<jamespage> slangasek, OK - we'll get tevent MIR'ed
<slangasek> jamespage: should be trivial since the code is already in main
<jamespage> slangasek, sure
<jdstrand> hallyn_: he is on vacation, so no. as for the feature buffer full-- that should be fixed in apparmor 2.8.0-0ubuntu24
<jdstrand> hallyn_: are you up to date?
<jdstrand> hallyn_: did you have specific questions wrt to it being August?
<diwic> pitti, hi, two builds are waiting at this ppa: https://launchpad.net/~phablet-team/+archive/pulseaudio - one for audio-mixer-touch and one for telepathy-ofono, could you bump them?
<hallyn_> jdstrand: apparmor 2.8.0-0ubuntu24 is in saucy.
<hallyn_> jdstrand: is 2.7.102-0ubuntu3.8 going to have the same fix for precise?
 * hallyn_ tries precise-proposed
<rtg> hallyn_, that version was uploaded to proposed last march.
<hallyn_> jinkeys
<hallyn_> and it doesn't fix it
 * hallyn_ checks for a bug # in saucy apparmor changelog
<hallyn_> I assume that's debian/patches/0041-parser-fix-flags.patch.  no bug
<jdstrand> hallyn_: it is
<jdstrand> hallyn_: that should be an SRU-able candidate. it is extremely simple.
<hallyn_> jdstrand: yeah, but we seem to ahve 2.7.102-0ubuntu3.8 stuck in -proposed :)
<hallyn_> jdstrand: I'll open a bug?
<jdstrand> hallyn_: sure
<hallyn_> jdstrand: ok, thanks
<rtg> jdstrand, seems like that version should get processed before the point release is minted
<hallyn_> rtg: did you track down which of the bugs that precise-proposed package is hung on?
<rtg> nope, just looked at the LP source page
<jdstrand> bug #987578
<ubottu> bug 987578 in apparmor (Ubuntu Precise) "Evince is not allowed to use exo-open" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987578
<jdstrand> sarnold tried to verify it, but could not reproduce
<hallyn_> jdstrand: at some point don't we fall back to "it didn't regress so we roll with it" ?
<hallyn_> can we do that at this point?
<pitti> diwic: bumped
<jdstrand> I think we can test it again
<diwic> pitti, thanks, much appreciated
<hallyn_> jdstrand: bug 1214979 fwiw.  thanks
<ubottu> bug 1214979 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Feature buffer full in precise with LTS kernel" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214979
<jdstrand> sarnold: can you look at bug #987578? you mentioned firefox, but the bug is for evince. I don't think you need xfce4-- you just need evince to use exo-open. perhaps this was fixed via some other means?
<ubottu> bug 987578 in apparmor (Ubuntu Precise) "Evince is not allowed to use exo-open" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987578
<bdmurray> infinity: did you say you'd have a look at bug 1214352?
<ubottu> bug 1214352 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "GUINT32/64_SWAP_LE_BE macros do not enclose val argument in parentheses" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214352
<infinity> bdmurray: I didn't say I wouldn't. :P
<roaksoax> xnox: ping
<xnox> roaksoax: heya
<roaksoax> xnox: hey! So I've been trying to re-enable clvm for testing (dlm still needs to be MIR'd), and I'm still seeing the FTBFS that I told you about a few weeks ago
<xnox> roaksoax: right.
<roaksoax> xnox: this is the diff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6010928/
<roaksoax> xnox: funny thing is that if I install libcorosync-dev locally, and try to configgure locally, it works
<xnox> roaksoax: i see. I'm rebuilding ubiquity & wubi at the moment. I'll look into lvm2 today/tomorrow.
<roaksoax> xnox: awesome! Thanks :)
<roaksoax> i'll work on the MIR
<xnox> roaksoax: there should be no MIR needed.
<roaksoax> xnox: it should,m 'dlm' is a new package that has the dependencies to build clvm
<roaksoax> since it was separated from redhat-cluster (which was removed from the archives)
<xnox> roaksoax: but redhat-cluster was in main, no?! =) /me thought there is an exception for when packages are essentially reshuffled/renamed around.
<roaksoax> xnox: yes, but since 'dlm' is a completely new package it still needs MIR
<infinity> roaksoax: Not if it's a source split from rhcs.
<infinity> roaksoax: (Not that I'm saying it is, I haven't looked at it, just sayin'... If it *is* a source split from something that was in main, just tell an AA, and we'll process accordingly)
<rtg> hallyn_, I verified that 0041-parser-fix-flags.patch added to apparmor 2.7.102-0ubuntu3.8 fixes the lxc install problem
<rtg> (with the Saucy LTS kernel)
<roaksoax> infinity: well it is not exactly the same source which was in mean. Upstream split the code long ago but was never packaged because redhat-cluster was still being shipped
<hallyn_> rtg: cool.
<roaksoax> so 'dlm' used to be shipped with redhat-cluster until it got split into its own source by upstream
<hallyn_> (if i had upload rights i'd consider pushing the trivial debdiff to -proposed...)
<hallyn_> (but i'd probably mess it up, which is why i don't have upload rights :)
<roaksoax> so with the removal of redhat-cluster, dlm had to be packaged (the latest upstream release)
<infinity> roaksoax: New versions aren't "exactly the same source" either.  If it's the same ancestry, and basically the same project, and wasn't gratuitously relicensed or adopted a mandate of insecurity by default, etc...
<rtg> hallyn_, I'll run my packaging changes by jdstrand and see about getting it uploaded
<jdstrand> rtg: you are referring to apparmor?
<infinity> roaksoax: So, my point still stands, if it was part of rhcs, then broken out, and it's basically the same project without any added insanity, it doesn't need a whole new MIR process.
<rtg> jdstrand, yes
<roaksoax> infinity: right. But it does still require a new MIR bug filled, right?
<roaksoax> infinity: (all the previous package splits I've done in the past had to go through a MIR process, which I guess might not have been as extensive as new apckages, and were accepted under the condition that they were a package split)
<jdstrand> rtg: I'm coordinating getting someone to retest 3.8
<rtg> jdstrand, do you want me to wait then ?
<roaksoax> infinity: example: bug #1205019
<ubottu> bug 1205019 in crmsh (Ubuntu) "[MIR] crmsh" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1205019
<jdstrand> rtg: what version did you use?
<rtg> jdstrand, I started with  2.7.102-0ubuntu3.8 (the version in -proposed)
<infinity> roaksoax: Package splits and renames don't need bugs filed.  It doesn't HURT to have one filed, but they don't need it.
<jdstrand> rtg: basically, I was thinking that we could try to test 2.7.102-0ubuntu3.8 and if we could get to verification-done, we'd poke ubuntu-sru to push that though, paving the way for 3.9
<infinity> roaksoax: They need NEW review in the queue to make sure nothing crackful happened to them on the split/rename (but that's already happened for dlm).
<infinity> roaksoax: Anyhow, looks like you filed an MIR anyway, so I'll just ack that when something actually depends on it.
<jdstrand> rtg: if we couldn't, then we would need to do a 3.9 with just the patch for your bug and push that to -proposed
<rtg> jdstrand, I'm OK with that. I'll just start a bug on this lxc installation failure so we don't forget.
<jdstrand> then redo what is in proposed now as 3.10
<roaksoax> infinity: I see. Good to know then. And thanks :)
<jdstrand> rtg: hallyn already filed one
<jdstrand> bug #1214979
<ubottu> bug 1214979 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Feature buffer full in precise with LTS kernel" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214979
<infinity> roaksoax: Oh, do make sure to get a team subscribed to its bugs, though.
<jdstrand> rtg: is the saucy lts kernel already in -security?
 * jdstrand is guessing 'no'
<rtg> jdstrand, nope, its coming from a PPA until saucy is released
<infinity> jdstrand: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-team/+archive/ppa/+packages
<infinity> Of course, it's also out of date...
<rtg> infinity, jdstrand: its really https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/s-lts-backport
<rtg> I'll delete the c-k-t PPA version
<infinity> rtg: Ahh.  Yes, please do.  It confuses my tools too. :)
<rtg> infinity, done
<bdmurray> slangasek: I found bug 1185571 and bug 823778 which are similar
<ubottu> bug 1185571 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "Update failed for linux-image-3.5.0-31-generic 3.5.0-31.52~precise1 - running Ubuntu from USB drive with casper-rw" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185571
<ubottu> bug 823778 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "package initramfs-tools 0.98.8ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/823778
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok, marking as a duplicate - thanks
<jdstrand> rtg: I've asked sarnold to look at the previous sru and to coordinate with you on fixing your bug
<rtg> jdstrand, ack
<dobey> hey guys, why this? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6011145/
<sil2100> Hi everyone, looking for a core-dev that's willing to review a diff and give green light for release:
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Platform/job/cu2d-platform-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_qtubuntu_0.52+13.10.20130821-0ubuntu1.diff
 * sil2100 sighs
<sil2100> Public jenkins still down
<sil2100> Let me pastebin it
<sil2100> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6011168/
<slangasek> sil2100: fwiw (and not to bounce you around too much), given that this url is only available to Canonical employees with VPN access, it might be best to ask on a Canonical channel and not bother the rest of the community
<slangasek> anyway, looking
<infinity> sil2100: That seems like a no-brainer.
<sil2100> slangasek: sorry about that, that's why I pastebinit'ed, since normally I use the public jenkins URL
<infinity> sil2100: configure in install is almost certainly wrong.
<sil2100> infinity: yep, but formality says: need a green light before I can press the button ;)
<slangasek> sil2100: the change is correct; do you need one of us to actually press the button, or do you just need our ack?
<sil2100> No, just an ACK
<sil2100> Thank you
<pepper_chico> anyone have a tip about this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/335489/is-there-a-way-to-define-a-hotkey-to-unhide-the-launcher ?
<Noskcaj> pitti, Thanks for merging all the branch i had waiting
<robert_ancell> mterry, hey, do you have a lightdm merge to match https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity-system-compositor/set-next-session/+merge/181325?
<mterry> robert_ancell, I do, yeah
<robert_ancell> cool
<mterry> robert_ancell, want me to file that too?
<mterry> I have it locally
<robert_ancell> mterry, yeah, just so we reserve the number on the other side
<mterry> robert_ancell, so...  how again does a session get named?  Like the greeter or user-sessions?  LightDM is going to set the name somehow?  I don't see that being done yet, mostly becuase it doesn't seem like LightDM creates a Mir connection for them
<mterry> Which is where I think you can provide a name
<mterry> a client connection that is
<robert_ancell> mterry, it provides the name to XMir with the -mir flag
<mterry> robert_ancell, what about nested Mir?
<robert_ancell> and that is passed to u-s-c in the Mir connect message
<robert_ancell> it will be passed in an environment variable like the socket name for u-s-c
<robert_ancell> mterry, the socket name MP is https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/mir/mirclient-env-var/+merge/179626
<robert_ancell> we'll need another one for nested once implemented
<mterry> robert_ancell, OK.  I won't try to land any of my naming stuff yet, but will propose a branch that calls the new API
<mterry> robert_ancell, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/lightdm/set-next-session/+merge/181411
<robert_ancell> mterry, btw, ignore the jenkins failure. I'm merging in the packaging branch and things will fail until that lands
<robert_ancell> I'll re-run it once that's done
<mterry> k
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: ping
<sarnold> infinity: may I ask for special SRU focus on 987578 for precise apparmor please? the verification was overlooked for far too long, and now is impeding progress on a more important sru for apparmor, bug 1214979 -- I have performed precise apparmor verification, marked it verification-done -- is anything else needed? thanks
<ubottu> bug 1214979 in apparmor (Ubuntu Precise) "Feature buffer full in precise with LTS kernel" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214979
<infinity> sarnold: Given a point release is in progress pretty much as we speak, releasing that today is a no-go anyway.
<infinity> sarnold: So, you could just upload on top of that for the other bug as well, verify the lot, and we can push it all in on, say, Monday.
<sarnold> infinity: thank you :)
#ubuntu-devel 2013-08-22
<scientes> what exactly does dh-translations do?
<scientes> i'm trying to just build without it...
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Noskcaj: YW
<infinity> RAOF: Before you ask, I'm fixing libmirclient2 right now.
<RAOF> In what way fixing?
<RAOF> I thought all that needed to happen was a nice rebuild of the xserver and then everything would magically propagate out of -proposed?
<infinity> RAOF: You didn't notice your xorg-server FTBFS mails, I guess. :P
<RAOF> I did indeed just notice them
<RAOF> I'm missing my amd64 FTBFS email, though :)
<infinity> Should be all better now.  Retrying them.
<infinity> amd64 hadn't started yet. :P
<infinity> You can blame the ubuntu-sdk people who think that every upload to their PPA needs to build on 4 series'.
<RAOF> saucy, raring, qantal, precise? Really all those?
<infinity> RAOF: Yeap.
<infinity> RAOF: Aaaand, now you get a real FTBFS instead.
<infinity> ../../../../hw/xfree86/xmir/xmir-window.c:262:21: error: 'mir_display_output_invalid' undeclared (first use in this function)
<infinity>   params.output_id = mir_display_output_invalid;
<RAOF> That'll teach me for trusting the... oh. That branch hasn't landed yet.
<RAOF> No, it must have. Because that's what bumped the ABI.
<RAOF> Ah. So when the documentation says "use mir_display_output_invalid" what it actually means is "BWA HA HA!"
<infinity> I get those two phrases confused often, myself.
<infinity> I think it's because they rhyme.
<RAOF> Wah? Now I'm confused.
<pitti> RAOF: that tends to happen when talking to infinity at this hour :)
<RAOF> Heh.
<RAOF> No, I'm confused by what's precisely in -proposed.
<RAOF> And also by by sbuilder setup, which I need to actually have -proposed enabled for...
<Mirv> can some core-dev say 'ack' if packaging change ubuntu-keyboard http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6013052/ looks ok to you, too? (daily publishing process)
<pitti> Mirv: LGTM
<Mirv> thanks, publishing services stack then
<Mirv> there'd be another one from kenvandine and robru renaming a package and adding C/R/P for the old package - mixed inside wrap-and-sort, though http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6013101/
<Mirv> (this is btw practicing for the fact that didier will be away for the next two weeks)
<dholbach> good morning
<pitti> Mirv: no vacation for didrocks! :-)
<didrocks> yeah, that should be forbidden, who authorized that? :p
<Mirv> so, if another core-dev has time for a small glance, an 'ack' for http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6013101/ (qml-friends packaging change) would be welcome
<pitti> yay for reordering everything and making the diff really hard to read..
<pitti> Mirv: dropping of qtdeclarative5-test-plugin build-dep is deliberate? the changelog doesn't mention it (or the reordering, or standrad-version bump, etc.)
<pitti> Mirv: nevermind, it was a duplicate
<Mirv> pitti: yeah, mixed in wrap-and-sort
<Mirv> what truly happened was http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~super-friends/qml-friends/trunk/revision/49 + R/C/P additions (+ wrap-and-sort)
<pitti> Mirv: the diff looks ok to me after ignoring the re-sorting, but note that you need a transitional package for clean upgrades
<pitti> sometimes it works without one, but it's way too easy to confuse apt by not having one, so I strongly suggest adding it
<pitti> Mirv: why does it need renaming in the first place?
<infinity> If something else is depending on the new package (always), then you don't need the transitional package.
<infinity> It's if your package is a leaf that you must have one.
<infinity> s/that/then/
<pitti> infinity: that's what I thought, too; but I've seen upgrades being stuck without one
<Mirv> pitti: there's a new policy of having versioned qml plugins like that, so that when API changes the package name will also change
<infinity> pitti: apt shouldn't get stuck if one upgrades, say, friends-app, and it depends on the new plugin, and it has a proper CPR triple against the old.
<infinity> pitti: It's when people use the wrong relationships that it goes sideways.
<infinity> pitti: Or accidentally depend and conflict with themselves (see the cups mess I unwound over the weekend).
<Mirv> seb128: related to above, do you know/remember how the new QML plugin naming policy came to be, I've been only told about it?
<infinity> Anyhow, given that this stuff is all new to saucy anyway, I'd let it pass without a transitional package, and if there are reports of breakage, one can be added.  But I hate having mid-cycle cruft if it's not necessary.
<pitti> ack
<seb128> Mirv, I don't know, it's just kenvandine who told me it was decided to use name<version> after they found how to make different abi co-installable
<infinity> (Now, if someone had installed it on its own as a leaf package, that will break miserably for them, but the odds of that on anything but some random developer's machine seem very, very low)
<Mirv> seb128: right, it was about that making different abi co-installable
<infinity> Given that none of this is seeded, it's pretty wildly undiscoverable, etc, I highly doubt anyone other than Ken might have installed it manually.
<infinity> Mirv: So, ack on that diff from me.  Watch for reports of upgrade breakage and be prepared to add a transitional package if it turns out you broke the world, but it should all be Just Fine.
<hyperair> any ~ubuntu-archive folk around?
<Mirv> alright then, thank you. publishing friends stack.
<hyperair> messagingmenu-sharp's been sitting on the saucy queue for two months or so now
<infinity> hyperair: For a couple more minutes before bed.
<hyperair> infinity: how long does it take to ack a NEW package?
<infinity> hyperair: More than those couple of minutes.  But you can bug me after I've slept and answer my questions while I review it?
<hyperair> infinity: sure.
<hyperair> infinity: when can i bug you?
<infinity> hyperair: In ~8h?
<Mirv> Wellark: hud still fails to build, can you check? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+sourcepub/3438927/+listing-archive-extra
<darkxst> pitti, cjwatson, so I am trying to run gnome-shell under ubiquity-dm, however there doesnt seem to be a logind session for that? and gnome-shell isnt real happy about that ;(
<Laney> that's an xnox thing
<Laney> also known
<darkxst> Laney, is there a bug for that?
<Laney> not sure
<xnox> darkxst: running gnome-shell under ubiquity-dm sounds backwards.  bug #1214732 is sensible -> auto-login into gnome-shell with a profile to just start ubiquity as a normal app. But then you'd need to hack "try ubuntu-gnome" button to do something sensible, e.g. make gnome-shell load the rest of stuff / relogin into normal profile
<ubottu> bug 1214732 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Use gnome-shell as window manager in ubiquity-dm (Ubuntu GNOME)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214732
<xnox> darkxst: logind bug is bug #1178638
<ubottu> bug 1178638 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Saucy) "Exception in GTK frontend when attempting to connect to wifi: no logind support" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1178638
<darkxst> xnox, if its so backwards why does ubuntu even use ubiquity-dm? other than that it would have been super easy if it wasnt for the missing logind stuff
<xnox> darkxst: up to raring, we were using consolekit in ubiquity-dm so it all did work. (we recently switched to logind in the distro, and ubiquity-dm is one of the few remaining ones to switch).
<xnox> darkxst: we use ubiquity-dm: as it uses less resources than a full-session, less confusion, and it crashes way less on slow hardware, doesn't require 3D graphics drivers, more reliable.
<xnox> darkxst: i have tried recently, but gnome-shell was failing to load/display in Qemu, thus for example there was no way for me to install fedora 19
<xnox> darkxst: i did experiment with running ubiquity-dm under compiz but there was a large increase of "compiz crash, installer froze" bugs.
<darkxst> xnox, perhaps that is the same issue that stops boxes working properly on ubuntu?
<xnox> darkxst: what is "boxes"? GNOME boxes?
<darkxst> xnox, yes, the GNOME  VM thing
<xnox> darkxst: Qemu & kvm works correctly here and displays all ubuntu releases / FreeBSD / Debian / Windows here.
<xnox> under virtual-manager.
<darkxst> xnox, anyway assuming we go the auto-login route, how to bypass ubiquity-dm?
<xnox> darkxst: "echo manual" > /etc/init/ubiquity.override
<darkxst> xnox, from casper?
<xnox> darkxst: echo "manual" > /etc/init/ubiquity.override
<xnox> darkxst: yeah, or some such.
<xnox> darkxst: note that you get to keep both pieces, e.g. gnome-shell behaving really/slow crashing with free drivers, and proprietary drivers are not activated by default on the cd, thus dead-locking and preventing a user from installing your flavour =)
<darkxst> xnox, is there anychance the logind thing would get fixed this cycle?
<xnox> darkxst: yeah, it should be. I had other things piling up on me.
<darkxst> xnox, well in that case, their experience is hardly going to get any better after installing!
<xnox> darkxst: you can use raring image to develop ubiquity-dm under gnome-shell, cause that shouldn't have logind problems.
<xnox> darkxst: sure it will, if they can install, they can tick install proprietary drivers on second page, and after install it will all be dandy good.
<darkxst> xnox, that doesnt actually install proprietry graphics drivers does it?
<xnox> darkxst: it does. ubuntu-drivers-common is run and if drivers are needed they are downloaded and installed into target installation.
<darkxst> ok I will test my ubiquity patches with a raring image
<darkxst> although gnome-shell doesnt have the external session modes on raring, but that shouldnt really matter too much
<darkxst> ok don't think its ever worked for me, but then I don't do real installs that often
<Wellark> Mirv: ...
<seb128> Wellark, hey, are you looking at that or should we find somebody else? (it's blocking the indicator stack)
<Wellark> seb128: if it's blocking the stack, then it's my 1st priority
<Wellark> deprecations...
<seb128> Wellark, deprecations are fine, the issue is that ted insists on failing build on those
<seb128> which doesn't make sense...
<Wellark> seb128: well, we could argue on that, but I have my hands full on fixing the hud build ;)
<seb128> Wellark, yeah, let's fix that an move on ;-)
<Wellark> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/hud/g_action_map_lookup_action/+merge/181508
<Wellark> now we can argue. :P
<dholbach> lool, do you think we should have a catch-all session about click and surrounding technologies or do you feel we're all set with what's been proposed up until now?
<dholbach> Just asking because will be on vacation until shortly before vUDS.
<lool> dholbach: it might be good just to socialize latest update / status, yeah
<lool> dholbach: BTW I've got the details on the Click failure that M Fisch was seeing; not sure it's still affecting us or whether other things are still on the way for Click on read-only images
<Wellark> seb128, Mirv: coulc you approve the MR?
<seb128> Wellark, it's already approved by larsu
<lool> dholbach: with Colin on leave this week, who do you think could poke at this?
<seb128> Wellark, waiting on CI to be run to top approve
<Wellark> seb128: great
<lool> dholbach: essentially it seems click checks permissions of all parent dirs instead of just the directory where clicks get installed
<lool> dholbach: fwding you
<dholbach> lool, there were a few commits by barry in lp:click - maybe slangasek could suggest somebody who could help
<dholbach> lool, do we have a bug report?
<seb128> Laney, seems like those retries didn't help :/
<dholbach> lool, so shall I go file a click blueprint?
<lool> dholbach: no; I'll file one if I see issue with today's image which will have the apparmor stuf
<lool> stuff
<dholbach> lool, can you tag it with 'appstore' please?
<lool> sure
<dholbach> merci bien
<lool> dholbach: blueprint >> you feel strongly about it, and I think it would be benefitial as a fallback or just socializing time, so go for it   :-)
 * lool hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> will do thanks
 * dholbach hugs lool back
<Laney> seb128: yeah
<Laney> i'll look at it some more in a bit
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> pitti, can you help on autopkgtests being stucked in RUNNING state?
<pitti> seb128: same thing as last time, just retrying them? I can do that, yes
<pitti> which one?
<seb128> pitti, no, don't
<seb128> pitti, it's glib, but Laney already retried, didn't seem to make a difference
<seb128> though chromium-browser is still running
<seb128> so maybe that's going to change once it's done
<pitti> hm, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html has an awful lot of running
<pitti> the only ones which are actually running are chromium-browser and maas-daily
<dholbach> lool, hum, I'm not sure if foundations-1305-click-package should/could be reused...
<pitti> (and openvswitch which is known to hang with the new kernel)
<dholbach> sending a mail about it
<lool> dholbach: feel free to
<Laney> pitti: yeah, they're being collected as RUNNING as you can see in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/log/2013-08-22/09:51:05.log
<Laney> I think that means the bug is in adt-britney / jenkins somehow
<pitti> right
<seb128> pitti, do we have anyone that knows those stuff while Colin and jibel are on vac?
<pitti> these are the only two, I'm afraid :/
<seb128> :-(
<pitti> I guess we can manually hack the status files somehow until that gets fixed
<seb128> infinity, ^ can you help?
<pitti> I found work/adt.result.saucy which e. g. says bzr-upload 1.1.0-3ubuntu1 RUNNING bzr-upload 1.1.0-3ubuntu1
<pitti> (which has finished yesterday)
<pitti> and data/adt/saucy-proposed/amd64/saucy-proposed_amd64_glib2.0 whcih also has these RUNNING bits
<pitti> but chromium is indeed running, let me check some others
 * pitti arghs at people.u.c. having a load of ~ 20
<xnox> ubiquity is stuck (i re-run it, but the original result from 19:10 yesterday, should have migrated ubiquity)
<jodh> smb: any further thoughts on bug 1208455? pitti/jibel: we may need to explore alternative solutions to bug 1158391 that don't involve nested kvm.
<ubottu> bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455
<ubottu> bug 1158391 in Auto Package Testing "ability to have a DEP-8 test run a test in a separate full system environment" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158391
<pitti> seb128: I'll try fiddling the status files for bzr-upload, that's got a small dep chain
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: if that works, and it propagates after the next publisher run, we can do the same for glib
<seb128> pitti, great, let me know how that goes
<pitti> if it just resets it, we need to force it
<pitti> and wait until Colin and JB fix it
<seb128> we need also more people to be able to deal with those magics
<smb> jodh, Not much. Second level nesting seems to suffer various odd problems but the many variations of os/arch do not make it easy
<seb128> or not let jb and Colin take holidays at the same time :p
<pitti> jodh: well, you said you do need the inner KVM and that lxc isn't enough (because of kernel crashes, etc.), right?
<pitti> jodh: is that a new crash with a recent kernel? stuff seemed to work quite well a few weeks ago when I played with that
<jodh> pitti: yes, we can't use lxc, but an alternative might be for autopkgtest to provide an (external) vm that the test can control. Avoiding nested kvm (or getting the kernel fixed in that regard) look like the best plans right now.
<jodh> pitti: were you running autopkgtest on your home systems or via canonistack?
<pitti> jodh: just at home
<jodh> pitti: that might be relevant as with canonistack and I guess the autopkgtest jenkins setup there is atleast 1 extra kvm instance running.
<pitti> jodh: but our production autopkgtest servers are real iron too, not on canonistack
<pitti> jodh: if that only affects canonistack, is that a big issue?
<Mirv> Wellark: let's wait for the rebuild, 10:00 UTC builds are already going, hud can be restarted later
<pitti> test development can happen locally, and production tests won't be on canonistack either
<jodh> pitti: maybe not. But I don't have the h/w at home and need to test somehow that it might work when deployed on autopkgtest
<pitti> uh, no kvm capable hw?
<jodh> pitti: I have that, but smb believes we should stick to an initial 64-bit environment. Thats the problem as my 64-bit h/w is not kvm capable.
<smb> jodh, pitti It was mostly to find you some setup that allows you to test.
<pitti> smb: why would nested kvm not work on a 32 bit host and guest?
<smb> In theory, even with the canonistack guest being 32bit userspace, you still have a 64bit capable cpu provided
<pitti> smb: I mean locally, not on cstack
<pitti> "prepare-testbed i386" builds a 32 bit VM which should work just fine on 32 bit
<smb> pitti, It should work but factually it has issues while using the 32bit version did not. But then this looses vmx which is of no use for jodh . But I did not know at that point he is trying a third level
<pitti> you wouldn't use a third level
<pitti> locally
<pitti> AFAICS jodh only runs on canonistack because he doesn't have 64 bit kvm capable hw, but if he has 32 bit kvm hw that should be fine?
<smb> pitti, The variation was which qemu command to use. qemu-system-i386 or qemu-system-x86_64. The former seemed to work from the 32bit userspace guest while the latter did not
<pitti> jodh: does anything in your tests actually require 64 bits?
<pitti> after all, these tests ought to work on i386 too
<jodh> pitti: how many "levels" of kvm will the autopkgtest jenkins env have?
<jodh> pitti: no. correct.
<pitti> jodh: the jenkins slave is real iron, and the normal "run-adt-testbed" is the topmost VM
<pitti> jodh: thus, your sub-vm within the upstart test is the second level
<pitti> while it would be the third on cstack
<jodh> pitti: ftr, I finished writing these tests a few weeks ago. But we are still attempting to find an environment that actually works where we can test the tests :)
<pitti> jodh: I thought you can do 32 bit kvm on your machine?
<jodh> pitti: ok. well I can retry locally with 32-bit but ftr that was also failing when running with qemu-system-x86_64.
<pitti> jodh: maybe, but why do you want qemu-system-x86_64 in the first place?
<jodh> pitti: yes I can, but the combinations we have tried as documented on various bugs show that although the systems *should* work, they do not.
<jodh> pitti: However, as I say, I'll try once more locally with 'qemu' at all levels rather than the existing hard-coded autopkgtest qemu-* variant.
<pitti> jodh: oh, do you mean because run-adt-test and prepare-testbed hardcode qemu-system-x86_64 for >= 13.04?
<pitti> jodh: yeah, we should check the host architecture and use qemu-system-i386 if it's 32 bit
<pitti> jodh: you can just change these locally in these scripts
<jodh> pitti: correct
<jodh> pitti: yes, it feels I've been changing those scripts almost hourly :)
<pitti> seb128: hm, britney sets back the status to RUNNING, so hacking the state files doesn't work :(
<pitti> so we'll need release team nudges for these
<smb> pitti, The problem with the whole nested kvm is that each level can vary in the kernel(+kvm kernel module) and the qemu/kvm user-space driving it. Which makes it very hard to figure out what broke when.
<Wellark> seb128: now the same test passed on i386 and failed on ARM :(
<seb128> Wellark, :/
<seb128> Wellark, doing another retry...
<Wellark> pete-woods: did you touch the watchdog code yesterday?
<Wellark> pete-woods: test-watchdog first failed on i386 and passed on ARM but on the second run it passed on i386 and failed on ARM
<Wellark> we need to tweak the urand()...
<Wellark> just for the lulz
<pete-woods> Wellark: no touches, unfortunately
<seb128> pete-woods, hey, thostr mentioned you were doing hud work, is fixing bug #1192646 on your list?
<ubottu> bug 1192646 in hud (Ubuntu) "shouldn't list unactive items" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192646
<Wellark> pete-woods: seems that the timer check is way too strict
<Wellark> pete-woods: I will give it some more margin
<pete-woods> seb128: I had only been assigned fixing the "hud doesn't work at all on the phone" bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/hud/+bug/1205097)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1205097 in Unity 8 "HUD isn't working" [Critical,Triaged]
<seb128> pete-woods, ok :/
<Wellark> pete-woods, seb128: letÃ¤s try this one: https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/hud/g_action_map_lookup_action/+merge/181533
<Wellark> I'm suspecting that the builders are simply just under such heavy load that it causes the timing sensitive tests to sometimes fail
<seb128> Wellark, the build fix finally got merged btw, but yeah, it makes sense to increase a bit the timeout I guess
<Mirv> Wellark: hud amd64 built fine now
<Wellark> Mirv: it has always built fine. :)
<Wellark> oh, sweet.. armhf failed again
<seb128> doko_, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/google-mock/1.6.0+svn437-0ubuntu3 is stucked in proposed, britney doesn't like your "python:any" depends
<seb128> Riddell, did you see that your qtwebkit-source recent update fails to build on arm?
<seb128> jamespage, hey, not sure if you noticed but samba is depwaiting on libtevent-dev ... do you plan to file a MIR for tevent?
<xnox> doko_: javac seems to segfault during android build here. Not sure what broke, as both oracle and openjdk are segfaulting here.
<paulliu> Hi, I got "Module 'HudClient' does not contain a module identifier directive - it cannot be protected from external registrations.
<paulliu> Is there some packages I missed?
<paulliu> wrong channel, sorry.
<xnox> doko_: that's 6, openjdk 7 works fine, so i'll port our build to use that..... or like not build that one single java util.
<jamespage> seb128, yeah - zul is going todo that
<seb128> jamespage, great, thanks
<dobey> kenvandine: hey, in system-settings-online-accounts, how do i go back to the main list of accounts (and also back to the main system settings view once in accounts), after i've clicked on or added an account?
<Laney> dobey: the same way you always go back, by dragging up the toolbar from the bottom
<dobey> awesome. so i can't go back (running it on workstation)
<xnox> Laney: i usually exit by fallowing "Exit" signs....
<Laney> why not?
<dobey> because i can't drag the toolbar up with a mouse?
<Laney> sure you can
<dobey> no. i can't
<xnox> dobey: hm, i thought i could, also I thought on desktop the toolbar is always expanded.
<dobey> oh, i can. i guess there's just no toolbar on the main screen
<dobey> you know, because *that's* obvious
<dobey> xnox: it's not
<xnox> interesting.
<dobey> also, why can't i just flick from left to right in the app, or on the header, to do that?
<dholbach> lool, maybe my memory is failing me right now, but did you file a bug on the click permissions thing?
<Laney> it's a design pattern
<Laney> http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/global-patterns/navigation
<Laney> "Deep"
<lool> dholbach: no, have to test it with today's image still; upgrading now
<dholbach> gotcha
 * lool was visiting a collocation space in the last hour
<lool> will be trying it out tomorrow
<lool> drilling noise at home + heat + nobody => I'd like to see some faces  ;-)
<lool> I can open my G+ stream and look at hackergotchis, but somehow it's not the same
<tvoss_> lool, :)
<w1nt3r> where does one goes to seek/request changes/additions in the distro iso?
<dobey> bug reports
<w1nt3r> have a link?
<pitti> sforshee: thanks for filing the upower bugs! I have another question/request for info in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68337, in case you missed it
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 68337 in general "UPower reports percentage as 0 with some Android battery drivers" [Normal,New]
<sforshee> pitti: I responded already ... did I miss something
<pitti> sforshee: ah thanks; that ought to be enough to reproduce
<qengho> Weird. So, why would the first step in "apt-get", "Reading package lists" take y
<qengho> oops.
<qengho> take a really long time?  Like, previously, 30 seconds.  Now, minutes.
<qengho> strace has long pauses between each read() of the downloaded Packages file.  ~32000 bytes per read().  Seems normal.
<qengho> ...The size, not delay.
<seb128> qengho, hey, how are you? are you getting somewhere with the chromium build fail on saucy?
<ogra_> again ?
<seb128> ogra_, yes...
<ogra_> oh man ... do they change their whole code each micro release ?
<qengho> seb128: yes, got it solved. Preparing next version now. Should be soon.
<seb128> qengho, great
<w1nt3r> are there (detailed) docs somewhere on the process ubuntu uses to master their isos? (specifically how is the boot record created)
<infinity> pitti: Erk, did you actually hack status files?  It would have been much less hassle to ask a release team member to just add test hint.
<w1nt3r> where should I file a bug to add more crypt kmods to the live cd's initrd?
<xnox> w1nt3r: $ ubuntu-bug cryptsetup
<xnox> w1nt3r: although it could be ubuntu-cdimage bug, since cryptsetup has been changed to include only some crypt modules to live cd's initrd.
<xnox> http://pad.lv/p/ubuntu-cdimage
<w1nt3r> xnox: thanks, that was very non-intuitive
<ScottK> sip4 and python-qt4 migration are blocked by python-qt4 autopkgtests still RUNNING after many hours. Could someone please have a look?
<gQuigs> looking for the right people to ping about my blueprint: recommending 64 bit by default: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-s-32v64-bit
<gQuigs> or just people who would want to discuss it this UDS.
<xnox> ScottK: known problem, please check the result on public jenkins and add a hint.
<xnox> ScottK: infinity unblocked ubiquity in a similar fashion for me.
<xnox> ScottK: jibel + cjwatson are away, and they kind of the two people who did "jenkins <-> britney" integration.
<Laney> yeah i've added a force-skiptest or two for that
<ScottK> Last time I was told it was all fixed.
<xnox> ScottK: sure, it was working fine, but yesterday is when i noticed problems.
<xnox> so something new has gone astray
<robert_ancell> tedg, you're handling indicate-bluetooth reviews right?
<tedg> robert_ancell, Either myself or charles, yes.
<tedg> What's up?
<robert_ancell> tedg, just checking i'm not blocking any of the changes charles is making
<robert_ancell> looking good though!
<tedg> robert_ancell, No, we've assumed that you've moved on to some space ship thingy ;-)
<robert_ancell> tedg, don't worry, we'll be crashing to earth soon enough :)
<charles> robert_ancell: :-)
 * tedg buys an umbrella
<charles> robert_ancell: do you know of any way to get the battery charge level from a bluetooth device?
<charles> bluez doesn't seem to have anything addressing it
<tedg> charles, I thought upower had it?
<robert_ancell> charles, no, sorry
<charles> but I'm still getting up to speed on this
<charles> tedg, at least when I tested, upower wasn't reporting anything on mpt's use cases
<charles> for example it didn't tell me anything about the bluetooth headset I have connected
<tedg> I wonder if it's a specific bluetooth profile that's required
<charles> wrt upower, iirc there's not even an entry for them in the upower device type enum
<tedg> charles, Hmm, perhaps it was a gnome-power thing that I'm remembering then.
<charles> tedg, I don't think gnome-power does that but I'll recheck
<tedg> charles, Well, I haven't played with gnome-power for probably 5 years... so trusting my memory here is probably not too wise :-)
<tedg> charles, When I was a kid we didn't have these fancy system services you kids have today!
<charles> tedg, I'm going to have to ask to see your driver's license, sir
<tedg> We did everything in the user session, and we liked it!
<darkxst> cjwatson, how do we change the isolinux theme on our livecd?
<TheMuso> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 13.04 released | Archive: open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> raring | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: TheMuso
<smoser> hey...
<smoser> i wonder what people woudl think abou thits.
<smoser> i like eatmydata.
<smoser> i like using eatmydata with apt.
<smoser> the one thing i'm concerned about is 'eatmydata apt-get install some-daemon-package'
<smoser> because if some-daemon-package is sysvinit, afaik, it will inherit eatmydata. which is probably not what i want.
<smoser> would there be an insertion point (maybe in 'service' or somewhere) where we could drop libeatmydata's LD_PRELOAD .
<smoser> unless there was another environment variable EATMYDATA_SYSVINIT or something also present.
#ubuntu-devel 2013-08-23
<sarnold> smoser: we -eventually- expect to have some environment variable scrubbing thing in apparmor, that might get you a lot of the way there
<sarnold> smoser: but sooner might be to patch upstart to do that :)
<smoser> upstart is fine.
<smoser> "fine" in some sense.
<smoser> it cannot be polluted in this way
<smoser> because upstart jobs dont' inherit the caller's environment.
<smoser> sysvinit do
<maxb> I guess /usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d could be the place to do this?
<sarnold> oh, right, you even said as much. sigh :)
<smoser> sarnold, well, its both a feature and a bug for upstart honestly.
<smoser> there is a use case where you would *want* to affect LD_PRELOAD, and to my knowledge you cannot (easily)
<TheMuso> xnox: Heh just got bitten by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools/+bug/1179782 as well.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1179782 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "syncpackage crashed with UnicodeDecodeError in decode(): 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 241: invalid continuation byte" [Medium,Confirmed]
<TheMuso> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 13.04 released | Archive: open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> raring | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> infinity: hack status files> mostly as a trial how they work, but changing them doesn't work anyway
<smartboyhw> Laney, is there a reason for ktp-call-ui to have the telepathy-farstream-0.4.patch?
<smartboyhw> Ah, found it
<smartboyhw> Is that still valid?
<TheMuso> /c/c
<pitti> infinity: would you mind nudging a few packages into sauy which britney wrongly considers as RUNNING? they all passed: python-apt, umockdev, python-defaults, bzr-upload, friends, gnome-settings-daemon, libpng, libxml2, qtwebkit-source, ubuntu-release-upgrader
<dholbach> good morning
<pitti> or Laney or ScottK ^
<pitti> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hi pitti
<JackYu> dholbach, hi
<dholbach> hi JackYu
<dholbach> JackYu, did you have luck with your package?
<JackYu> dholbach, do you have more comments to it?
<dholbach> oh, I asked folks in #ubuntu-desktop yesterday - did you try there as well?
<JackYu> dholbach, it seems no more comments from them:)
<JackYu> dholbach, I asked some guys as well:)
<Laney> pitti: can do
<Whoopie> debfx: Hi, I just looked at the virtualbox package and recognized that the VNC module is not installed even though it's compiled. Any reason for this?
<Laney> pitti: did all of the ones stuck in RUNNING
<pitti> Laney: thanks!
<debfx> Whoopie: no, it's an oversight. someone needs to test if it really works though.
<Whoopie> debfx: if you put it in a new package, I'll test. ;-)
<debfx> Whoopie: a new package? is it that dependency heavy?
<Whoopie> debfx: otherwise, I have to compile myself.
<Whoopie> debfx: I build it now. let's see.
<xnox> smoser: I find dpkg --force-unsafe-io sufficient, when I want to speed up apt, but not actually preload eatmydata.
<Noskcaj> cjwatson, Can you merge hw-detect before we hit feature freeze? There aren't any major changes, so it should be fairly easy
<xnox> Noskcaj: you are after translation updates?
<Noskcaj> xnox, I wouldn't use them, but that and your improvements would be worth doing
<xnox> Noskcaj: right. ok. cjwatson is away atm. but we should merge up all d-i packages to gain translations et. al.
<Noskcaj> ok, thanks for the info
<jamespage> jodh, I'm right in thinking I can't write custom actions for upstart configurations right?
<jamespage> I have 'openvswitch-switch start' and 'openvswitch-switch stop' etc..
<jamespage> but I'm guessing openvswitch-switch force-reload-kmod is a non starter
<jodh> jamespage: yes, you are correct (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstart/Ideas). But you could of course just create a specific job for that.
<jamespage> jodh, yeah - I was thinking about doing that
<jamespage> openvswitch-switch-force-reload
<jamespage> openvswitch-force-reload-kmod
<jodh> jamespage: why is a kernel module reload required? can't that happen in the pre-start for the job?
<jamespage> jodh, it interrupts the dataflows in the kernel so you don't always want todo it when restarting the daemons
<jamespage> i.e. it breaks the networking...
<jodh> jamespage: fun :)
<jamespage> jodh, yeah - but hey!
<jamespage> makes life interesting
<Laney> pitti: is openvswitch's autopkgtest genuinely stuck?
<pitti> Laney: yes; it used to work against older kernels, but it hangs with kernel 3.11
<pitti> the server team knows about it
<Laney> ah ok
<jodh> could someone bump some builds for me? https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-foundations/+recipe/upstart-daily-nonvirt and https://code.launchpad.net/~upstart-devel/+recipe/upstart-daily? (The estimates seem to be somewhat askew :)
<xnox> jodh: don't think it will help much, amd64 is busy building firefox, thunderbird, yade which all take a while. And bumping your priority will not kick those builds off.
<xnox> jodh: looking at https://launchpad.net/builders the queue is very small (PPA build status on the right)
<xnox> jodh: looks like nonvirt build hang all of builders, possible cause is stray child process left over.
<xnox> jodh: infinity was reporting that before.
<jodh> xnox: ok, I'll see if I can recreate locally.
<xnox> jodh: i'm grepping my irc logs.... it was one of the tests that did a fork.
<xnox> jodh: found it, test_job and forked test_job are left after the build is finished.
<xnox> jodh: https://pastebin.canonical.com/92355/
<pete-woods> didrocks: hi! I have another project I'd like to to start landing in distro (https://launchpad.net/unity-voice) - it's not in jenkins yet (waiting for fginther's tz), but thought there may be some benefit letting you know, seen as feature freeze is next week!
<jodh> xnox: I'm now also seeing test_initctl's left around. I think it's your reload test - it's only killing the paused child in the error code path.
<jodh> xnox: could you take a look?
<xnox> jodh: correct.
<xnox> jodh: i'll take test_initctl.
<jodh> ack. I'll dig into the other one...
<xnox> jodh: there is something different on the current build... https://pastebin.canonical.com/96297/
<jodh> xnox: ? you mean the addition of the test_dbus-daemon? I'm also seeing that locally.
<xnox> ok, cool.
<xnox> yeah, that.
<xnox> jodh: sent merge proposal to clean up initctl/reload_signal tests.
<didrocks> pete-woods: hey! is it a service/a library? who will consume it?
<didrocks> pete-woods: also, are there integration tests? Seeing a lot of new projects, not a lot of integration tests :)
<pete-woods> didrocks: it's a service, and it's basically the voice code from HUD, ripped out
<pete-woods> and to be fair, the stuff I've made is either test libraries (libqt*test) or hasn't been integrated with the shell yet :)
<ScottK> pitti: If you can give me the hint to copy/paste, I'll be glad to do it, but I'm a bit tied up with $STUFF to work out the details.
<pete-woods> the consumer will be HUD
<pitti> ScottK: no worries, Laney already did it; thank!
<pitti> s
<ScottK> OK.  Great.
<didrocks> pete-woods: ok, part of the HUD delivery then?
<didrocks> pete-woods: managed by the same team anyway I guess
<pete-woods> didrocks: well it's managed by me, really, basically HUD is leaky, and the voice code is memory heavy, so we can't let HUD leak instances of it
<didrocks> pete-woods: ok, sounds good :)
<didrocks> pete-woods: I assigned it to robru FYI
<pete-woods> didrocks: I ported it to C++ and have 95% test coverage with it
<pete-woods> the difficulty with integration tests is
<pete-woods> it takes microphone input
<pete-woods> didrocks: the unit tests add the pulse "pipe" device for a fake microphone
<pete-woods> can autopilot do a similar sort of thing?
<didrocks> pete-woods: so, it's some kind of integration tests, right?
<didrocks> if you are using pulse to input some infos
<pete-woods> didrocks: I would call the tests I've written integration tests
<pete-woods> they treat the service as a whole binary
<pete-woods> rather that testing components
<didrocks> pete-woods: from what I know, autopilot is just a glorified unittest class with stuff to pilot touch and mouse move
<didrocks> pete-woods: so, you can call your "fake input microphone"
<didrocks> and read the result from the HUD
<didrocks> (just to ensure that the HUD understand your input/output)
<pete-woods> that makes sense
<pete-woods> where do autopilot test go, by the way?
<didrocks> most of the time, we keep them in the same source
<didrocks> look at unity8 for instance, a C++/QML example with the autopilot tests
<pete-woods> so these tests should probably go in the HUD source?
<didrocks> pete-woods: either HUD or this one, what you think will make more sense IHMO
<pete-woods> okay, will look at that
<didrocks> pete-woods: it's just about ensuring the 2 can communicate together I guess
<didrocks> thanks!
<pete-woods> I can't promise anything here, didrocks, I've tried getting these tests running on the build farm before
<didrocks> pete-woods: I'll be on holidays starting tonight for 2 weeks, please check with robru then (I've assigned to him in the spreadsheet)
<pete-woods> didrocks: pulse modules don't seem to want to load on the build server
<pete-woods> you'll note a rather embarassing (ENABLE_TESTS=OFF) in the rules
<didrocks> pete-woods: yeah, for autopilot, that will be a real session
<pete-woods> cool
<pete-woods> that sounds excellent
<didrocks> so you shouldn't get the same issue than in the builder chroot
<pete-woods> didrocks: thanks for all the infos! :)
<didrocks> yw ;)
<Whoopie> debfx: Here is the debdiff for virtualbox to add the VNC plugin module: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6017538/
<Whoopie> debfx: to enable VNC, I followed this guide: http://www.neant.ro/2013/04/enable-vnc-on-virtualbox-ose-4-2/
<Whoopie> debfx: the VBOX_VERSION_STRING_RAW change was needed as the version must be 4.2.16 and not 4.2.16_Ubuntu, otherwise the module fails to be loaded (seen with "VBoxManage list extpacks").
<sforshee> pitti: thanks for taking care of my upower patches! Are you planning to update the saucy package with your changes?
<pitti> sforshee: at some point, yes; once hughsie is back online, I want to get him review my third patch, then upload a new snapshot to Debian, and sync it over
<pitti> sforshee: but I guess it's not that urgent as the saucy package now has all those
<sforshee> pitti: not urgent. I want to test the patches you comitted, but if you were going to upload them soon I figured I'd just wait.
<smoser> xnox, there is about an order of magnitude difference between eatmydata and force unsafe io
<smoser> on slow disk.
<xnox> smoser: true. better than nothing, though.
<diwic> is there a way to specify something *optional* in an debian/package.install file? I have a file that's only being built under one arch,
<diwic> and for that arch it should be included, and just left out on the others.
<ogra_> wasnt there an option to specify an arch specific install file ?
<diwic> now the other arches FTBFS because they can't find the file which is not built
<diwic> ogra_, I don't know, do you know how?
<ogra_> not really ... the dh_install manpage doesnt say much
<ogra_> i think it was something like .install.$arch but not sure i remember right
<Ampelbein> diwic: Yes, it's described in man 7 debhelper, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6017598/
<diwic> Ampelbein, ah, thanks. ogra's right then
<Laney> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 13.04 released | Archive: open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> raring | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: Laney
<Wizard> Yo.
<hyperair> infinity: ping. messagingmenu-sharp? :)
<zequence> Anyone who could assist in uploading a couple of Ubuntu Studio packages? They've been reviewed and are ready to go.
<Wizard> Is there any Ubuntu related channel about developing software for Ubuntu?
<Wizard> Where people will be familiar with Launchpad and so?
<smartboyhw> Wizard: here
<zequence> Wizard: There's also #ubuntu-app-devel, if you're thinking about developing apps for Ubuntu
<Wizard> So, I'm going to write small DLNA streamer (desktop) and I intend to use Qt.
<Wizard> zequence: Yes, that's what I'm thinking.
<Wizard> Actually, app developemnt is ongoing.
<Wizard> thanks, zequence.
<xnox> zequence: what do you need uploading? =)
<zequence> xnox: OvenWerks could better answer that :)
<zequence> OvenWerks: ^
<zequence> xnox: Alright, so the two branches are lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-menu, and lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-installer (which is a first time upload)
<zequence> From what I understand, they've both been thoroughly reviewed, so they should check out
<xnox> zequence: it would be nice for Len to add his email to launchpad account, to get proper committer links to launchpad profile.
<OvenWerks> xnox: I thought it was there
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks: I think you never ran bzr launchpad-login
<xnox> OvenWerks: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-installer has "Len Ovens len@ovenwerks.net" is that email added as one of the emails in your profile?
<OvenWerks> It is the only one.
<OvenWerks> It has a lock beside it though.
<OvenWerks> does that mean it doesn't work?
<xnox> OvenWerks: then I don't know =) maybe try #launchpad.  Cause e.g. look how each person is "linkifyied" down here: https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubuntu-seeds/fix-kernels-precise-kubuntu and allows one to click on a person.
<OvenWerks> Ya, I have wondered what happended, it used to work
<xnox> OvenWerks: zequence: is that -installer package going to stay in perl / zenity / apt-get? I would have thought packagekit UI should be available to install packages, and/or select them.
<xnox> OvenWerks: zequence: also as a side note, zenity usually runs at 100% CPU for no reason, spinning/waiting for user input.
<OvenWerks> xnox: I am looking for something that is already in all the DEs/flavours
<xnox> OvenWerks: zequence: if you are happy with that, then why not =)
<OvenWerks> We need to have it in before FF it will continue in active development after though...
<xnox> OvenWerks: packagekit API/UI _should_ be available. On ubuntu it would spin up software-center UI, on kubuntu their package store, etc....
<xnox> OvenWerks: ok. that's fine.
<xnox> OvenWerks: zequence: do you have matching seed update as well to go along with those two?
<OvenWerks> That is next :)
<OvenWerks> I didn't want to break -setting if these two didn't make it.
<xnox> ok.
<OvenWerks> right now settings replaces -menu
<xnox> zequence: OvenWerks: uploaded, -installer is naturally in the NEW queue.
<OvenWerks> xnox: Thankyou very much
<OvenWerks> That is my first ever sw package from start to finish
<hallyn_> what do-release-upgrade needs is one more place where it stops to ask me if i want to proceed
 * ogra_ hands hallyn_ "echo -n "Proceed ? (y/n)" && read foo && [ $foo = y ] && sudo do-release-upgrade"
<xnox> Who do I talk to about ps-jenkins bot / jenkins integration?
<slangasek> smoser, utlemming: we seem to be stalled on the 12.04.3 point release because we have a MAAS juju test case that we can't find anyone to complete; would either of you be able to help us out?  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/301/builds/51859/testcases/1289/results
<hallyn_> ogra_: thanks - maybe ifi  weren't a sarcastic bastard you'd have handed me an expect script :)
<ogra_> :)
<gQuigs> can I get this rescheduled for Thursday: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21877/client-s-32v64-bit/
<gQuigs> or late on Tuesday
<Laney> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 13.04 released | Archive: open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> raring | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<slangasek> YokoZar: so... no wine rebuilds yet for the gphoto ABI change? :)
<slangasek> pitti: this libgphoto2-2 transitional package concerns me.  how can this possibly be valid, when neither the transitional package nor the package it depends on provides libgphoto2.so.2?
<Luna_12043> hello
<Luna_12043> when will Ubuntu 12.04.3 be released?
<Luna_12043> according to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-12.04.3 it should have been released yesterday?
<stgraber> Luna_12043: a bit later today
<xnox> Luna_12043: when announcement is out on ubuntu-announce that's when it's released. It has been delayed, but the release team is working on getting it out.
<Luna_12043> xnox & stgraber : thank you very much for your replies
<Luna_12043> another question:
<Luna_12043> over there:
<Luna_12043> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-August/037572.html
<Luna_12043> someone mentioned: "And, not comprehensive, but some known limitations / features being worked on....  - no proprietary driver support (dependent on 3rd parties)"
<Luna_12043> can anyone here describe how that work is going?
<Luna_12043> or with other words: what do the 3rd parties (i.e. NVIDIA, AMD etc.) say?
<Luna_12043> bye
<bdmurray> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 13.04 released | Archive: open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> raring | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: bdmurray
#ubuntu-devel 2013-08-24
<bdmurray> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 13.04 released | Archive: open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> raring | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<phillw>  If there is someone available, could you tell me the difference between sudo do-release-upgrade and the apt-get update & dist-upgrade route?
<phillw> brian intimated that they are not the same.
<phillw> bdmurray: ^^
<phillw> ScottK: I assume they are away for the w/end - I'll ask again in 'normal office hours' :)
<ScottK> I don't know what you expect them to tell you I didn't already.  The pointer here was not meant to cause you to re-ask the question I already answered in -release.
<bdmurray> phillw: ScottK answered the question pretty well.
<phillw> bdmurray: I must have missed the answer.
<bdmurray> phillw: "the simple version is it does lots of special-casing to make release upgrades smoother"
<phillw> bdmurray: I do not suppose there is a cat on hells chance of that being explained on a sub page of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Testing_The_Devlopment_Release ?
<phillw> I've yet to write up the dist-upgrade page page, so knowing the difference between that and do-release-upgrade would be of real help (not only to me, as I do not know the difference)
<phillw> -page
<ScottK> From a test perspective, all you need to write is that the supported upgrade method is using the release upgrader and describe how to do it.
<bdmurray> The recommended way to upgrade between releases of Ubuntu is using the release upgrader.
<bdmurray> I don't think other not recommended ways should be documented.
<phillw> ScottK: bdmurray so for people using ubuntu+1 they should use do-release-upgrade and not update / dist-upgrade?
<ScottK> yes
<ScottK> no
<bdmurray> Additionally, during the testing of the development release you wouldn't use do-release-upgrade.
<ScottK> When you upgrade from one release to another, use do-release-upgrade.
<bdmurray> That's used to move from release to release.
<ScottK> Not when updating packages
<phillw> so, I should advise  update / dist-upgrade
<bdmurray> No, because that is for upgrading between releases.
<bdmurray> Using update-manager is the recommended way to install updates.
<phillw> bdmurray: I'm running 13.10, what is the best method to update it on a real (or virtual) machine?
<bdmurray> use update-manager
<phillw> I did not get linux kernel update because I needed to use dist-upgrade
 * phillw confused, as usual :)
<phillw> so, can I ask in terms of simple? I'm running 13.10 - what is the method to ensure it gets all the updates?
<bdmurray> Again using update-manager is the way to get all updates.
<phillw> running update-manager from terminal now :)
<phillw> bdmurray:  I'm sorry for n00b questions, but it is an area of the testing wiki area I want to be fully correct.
<phillw> bdmurray: is there a method of issuing that command and see progress?
<bdmurray> update-manager is a gui application so I'm not sure what you mean
<phillw> when using update manager from menu, we do have an option to see the progress :)
<phillw> "Failed to download repository information" check your internet connection
<phillw> Not too helpful :P
<phillw> bdmurray: update-manager is not fit for testing purposes, it has no way of giving any error reports. Is there any other way to do the task via terminal?
<phillw> bdmurray: also Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in module_path: "murrine", at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/FrontEnd/Gnome.pm line 96.
<phillw>  is repeated many times.
<bdmurray> phillw: this is what update-manager looks like - http://people.canonical.com/~brian/tmp/Screenshot%20from%202013-08-23%2021:13:01.png  is that what you are using?
<phillw> bdmurray: I'm just filing a bug, it will be there in a couple of minutes.
<bdmurray> phillw: could you answer my question?
<phillw> bdmurray: nope. I do not see that.. just a small GUI window of the status. I will grab a screen shot to add to the bug.
<phillw> bdmurray: anything else you need for bug 1216199 ?
<ubottu> bug 1216199 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager shows no reason for a failure" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1216199
<bdmurray> well the screen shot
<phillw> drat... just kicked in the ubuntu-bug command.... awaiting it to cancel :)
<phillw> bdmurray: window shot added.
<bdmurray> and then after that screen you should see one like I posted
<phillw> I can add the entire screen if that would help, but I doubt it would.
<phillw> Nope, never saw the next screen. as when it failed I had a choice of cancel or continue regardless.
<bdmurray> You mentioned that it failed to download repository information earlier.
<bdmurray> I suspect you have some PPAs enabled that don't support saucy.
<phillw> yep, I have a dodgy PPA... but that should not cause a total failure
<bdmurray> well remove that then
<phillw> as testers, we are asked to run PPA's. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PPA_Testing
<phillw> bdmurray: that then causes other issues, next it will be remove -proposed etc. It HAS to handle testing, or we need a CLI option.
<infinity> You're not asked to run PPAs that 404, I imagine.
<phillw> that one had failed, but it should not really cause a catastrophic failure?
<phillw> I'll remove the PPA
<infinity> It didn't.  It gave you the option to continue.
<infinity> Your definition of catasrophe is curious.
<phillw> It did not progress to your screen shot? I'm trying to get a heads up as to how to write the wiki page. As at present, on the screen shot I have does not state, nor can, state any error it is an 'abort' or 'ignore'. As there is the 'minor' issue of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/U%2B1/partial_upgrade which it does not seem to be able to handle
<phillw> nor can it handle or report a 404 error
<bdmurray> I don't know what you mean by "on the screen shot I have does not state, nor can, state any error it is an 'abort' or 'ignore'".  Could you explain that a bit more?
<phillw> bdmurray: maybe I should try this from a different angle... give me a few minutes to write an idea up and pastebin it for you to read.
<bdmurray> phillw: that's not really necessary
<bdmurray> the dialog I see that is labelled "Failed to download repository information" has two buttson
<bdmurray> Try Again and Ok
<bdmurray> clicking ok presents the same screnshot I posted earlier
<bdmurray> which then allows you to upgrade
<phillw> yup, I did the try again, but as I have a known 404 on a ppa, that would be okay. However but, and it is a big 'BUT', i also see errors on apt-get update that needs me to re-run it again because of time outs.
<phillw> bdmurray: please don't think I'm being awkward, I'm just trying to get a wiki page written up that can be referred to as the "Gold Standard" for people to refer to.
<bdmurray> phillw: and I believe that the standard is update-manager, even though it may not be working for you personally
<phillw> if on ubuntu+1 with other testing going on that we do get involved in, is a GUI the best option? If that is your considered opinion, I will write the page up as that. We'll then have to to think about how best to proceed when it throws an error message up.
<phillw> "Failed to download repository information - check your internet connection"... Options are "Settings", "Try Again" and "OK". There is no way of seeing what the issue is.
<bdmurray> phillw: I'm really not sure what you are looking for, but if the goal of testing is to test apps that our users use then the testers should be using the recommended software to install updates - which in this case is update-manager.  If you run into bugs with it then those should be reported.
<bdmurray> So yes a GUI is the best option, and I'm not sure why you put it that way.
<phillw> infinity: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/U%2B1/partial_upgrade I have no way of knowing if I use the GUI
<phillw> s/ infinity / bdmurray
<bdmurray> phillw: I think what you are complaining about is similar to bug 1153569
<ubottu> bug 1153569 in update-manager (Ubuntu) ""Failed to download repository information" alert is unattractive" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153569
<phillw> possibly, but for a partial upgrade it can well bork your system. Which is why they go on to length about not doing it :D
<bdmurray> or at least resolving that bug should give more information when it fails
<bdmurray> I'm talking about the 404 issue you were mentioning earlier, I haven't read the partial upgrade page.
<phillw> bdmurray: I usually have to run apt-get update twice to have it happy, before I issue the apt-get dis-upgrade.
<phillw> I've got a crappy <narrow>band link, which can drop out at times
<phillw> *dist-upgrade*
<bdmurray> I'm headed off
<phillw> is 06:05 here, I've turned off the ppa from chad miller for chromium and the wallch one. I'll have a play after some sleep :)
<phillw> thank you for your time.
<vipul_> hey!
<vipul_> can anybody tell me the difference between kernel programming vs device drivers programming?
<zequence> Ubuntu Studio devs would like help uploading one last package before FF. Anyone around who could assist?
<zequence> lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings
<xnox> zequence: is that complete branch name?
<xnox> =)
<OvenWerks> xnox: let me check
<xnox> zequence: please set development focus branch, such that lp:ubuntustudio-default-settings works =)
<xnox> OvenWerks: i guess it's lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio
<OvenWerks> yes
<xnox> TheMuso: can you please set maintainer/driver of ubuntustudio-default-settings (and/or other ubuntustudio packages) to ~ubuntustudio-dev?
<xnox> zequence: have you considered to apply via Developer Membership Board for upload rights to ubuntustudio packageset? it should be trivial for existing Debian Developer who upload same packages in Debian.
<xnox> zequence: OvenWerks: done.
<OvenWerks> xnox: Thank you
<OvenWerks> xnox: I can see the ubuntustudio-default-settings build, but the branch does not show the commit for the release. That is the changelog in the deb differs from the changelog at the branch
<OvenWerks> xnox: I can sync the branch if you would prefer
<xnox> OvenWerks: pushed.
<OvenWerks> Thank you
<evfool> hi, does anyone know what's the target gtk+ version for saucy?
<zequence> xnox: None of us have upload rights to anywhere at the moment, but we're working on it :)
<xnox> evfool: current gtk+ stable, 3.8?!
<evfool> xnox: just wanted to know as 3.10 stable will be released before the final beta, and it could've been included in saucy, but I guess then saucy will be released with 6months old gnome stack :(
<Laney> we'll get that next time
<ari-tczew> does have someone armel to test a package against FTBFS?
<mlankhorst> ari-tczew: armel is only for precise
<infinity> (and quantal)
<ari-tczew> ok, does have someone armhf?
<infinity> Well, I have both.  But maybe it would help if you pointed someone at the diff/fix?
<infinity> Some of us can identify if it'll fix the problem even without compiling.
<ari-tczew> infinity: I'd like to test libopenraw from Debian
<ari-tczew> if builds fine on armhf, I'd like to sync it
<infinity> Erm, why?
<infinity> Ours is already fixed.
<infinity> ari-tczew: We get exactly nothing out of syncing it, nothing's changed except the symbols files and ours are already correct.
<ari-tczew> infinity: if package builds fine (from Debian on saucy) we don't need to take a look again in the next cycle
<infinity> ari-tczew: Note that "we" is "me", since it's on my merge list.
<infinity> And I do actually look at my merge list.  Even when helpful people decide they know better. :P
<ari-tczew> infinity: hmmm I didn't notice that you're the last uploader
<ari-tczew> but in DIF asking the last uploader of merge is not necessary
<ari-tczew> after DIF *
<infinity> Err, wut?
<infinity> Who on earth told you that?
<ari-tczew> infinity: ScottK
<infinity> DIF is a freeze.  Restrictions are tighter, not looser.
<infinity> It's Debian Import Freeze, not Debian Import Free-for-all.
<ari-tczew> infinity: so you mean every contributor should ask always for every sync/merge last uploader?
<ari-tczew> of I can?
<ari-tczew> or *
<stgraber> TIL always applies
<infinity> It's generally not a bad idea to ask the last uploader.
<stgraber> there are obvious cases where it doesn't (no change rebuilds, ...) but those are as I said, obvious, so if it's not obvious, ask the last uploader
<infinity> In some cases, a sync-over-last-bugfix is "obvious" and if you've tested it thoroughly, not a big deal.  But you'd better be positive that the only delta you're dropping is now upstream.
<ari-tczew> infinity: I'm preparing syncs/merges since 1 month and you're the first person which have a problem with that
<stgraber> especially when it's someone as active as infinity who will be able to give you a go/no-go within minutes (or even seconds)
<infinity> (I've lost far too many of my patches to people who sync because 1/3 of my patches got upstream)
<infinity> Honestly, I'm still not sure who decided that "doing other people's merges" was a sane way to contribute. :/
<stgraber> and doing merges/syncs after DIF is usually a very bad idea as the potential for regressions/new issues is pretty high with those. So unless you're very familar with a package (in which case you're likely to be the TIL anyway), it's best to wait till the next cycle.
<infinity> ari-tczew: Maybe I'm just the first one to be outwardly annoyed by it? :P
<ari-tczew> if we cannot sync/merge package when that can only last uploader, always will be slowly updated/upgraded
<infinity> ari-tczew: If the TIL person isn't responsive, by all means, hijack away.  We don't have a concept of package *ownership* in Ubuntu, but we still have a sense of politeness and an understanding of domain expertise.
<infinity> For instance, the person who offered to merge dpkg for me was given a firm "no". :P
<infinity> But at least he asked.
<ari-tczew> infinity: so I've got wrong info and I need to clear it with the person who told me that
<ari-tczew> anyway, infinity, you're the first with problem about that
<stgraber> ari-tczew: not having the latest version of a given package isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially when it's because the domain expert is too busy with other things. If you'd merge the package for him, he'd likely have to deal with the bugs, which he probably wouldn't have time to do and Ubuntu would just end up being more buggy (albeit with a new shiny verison of a broken package)
<infinity> (Granted, this sync is a bad example of the above, but it's still nice to ask, or to not bother with a pointless no-op sync that just creates churn)
<ari-tczew> stgraber: ok, maybe we should attach a mail to a sync/merge request with confirmation that last uploader gives ACK for this one
<infinity> ari-tczew: FWIW, the new openraw builds on armhf, but Debian's symbols file is a complete mess, and it only builds because he's slack on his makeshlibs failure mode.  I'll probably submit a better patch later (but keep it forked for now).
<infinity> Anyhow, there's no point in syncing it.  The software itself hasn't changed at all.
<ari-tczew> infinity: ok, that's why I asked
<stgraber> ari-tczew: let's not add extra paperwork. Either you have the ok and you file the bug, or you don't and you don't. If you do the work without asking first, I'd expect the sponsor to get in touch with the TIL and depending on his mood, just ignore your work entirely.
<stgraber> (because it always takes longer to review a merge than do it from scratch, so for my packages, I just ignore people doing the merge for me and I'll do it myself from scratch when I actually have time for that stuff)
<ari-tczew> if the people make a]
<ari-tczew> make packages better from scratch instead a merge, why we work closes with Debian?
<infinity> That's now what he meant.
<ari-tczew> now we are going to point that merging  and syncing don't make sense
<infinity> He meant it's easier for a reviewer to just do a merge themselves than to review a merge.
<infinity> Merges come in two flavours: 1) trivial merges that I can do in about 5 seconds.  Sponsoring someone else's saves me no time there.  2) Very complex merges that can take hours.  The only way to review one of those is to do it myself, and compare the output.  At which point, I've just re-done what you did.
<ari-tczew> infinity: and what's your point? you don't like to sponsor someone else?
<stgraber> no, his point is that sponsoring merges is a bad idea and that this work is better left to the TIL
<stgraber> who will be able to do it in a fraction of the time and have it done correctly the first time around
<infinity> I'd much rather sponsor bugfix patches and such.  Things where the contributor had to put in real effort that I wasn't going to or didn't have time to.
<stgraber> whereas doing the work for the TIL, only forces him to do it NOW to review your work, so then you've had two people do the merge which means you either wasted your time, or the TIL's time
<infinity> If you look at my history of sponsored uploads, you'll be hard pressed to find merges in there.  Just sayin'.
<ari-tczew> stgraber, infinity: do you believe that every contributor asks last uploader before prepare/upload a merge?
 * infinity grumbles at fixing corosync and sheepdog and still not managing to get libcorosync4 safe on the NBS list, and squints harder to find the cause.
<infinity> ari-tczew: I don't believe everyone does, and you're not the only one I've asked to do so.
<infinity> ari-tczew: Do you believe everyone asks before stabbing their parents in the face?  What others do should have no bearing.
<stgraber> ari-tczew: I know not everyone does it because I fairly often have to remind people about it, it's no excuse not to do so though.
<infinity> ari-tczew: There's also something to be said for knowing the people you're messing with.  As much as we'd like to pretend otherwise, not everyone is the same, and relationships matter.
<infinity> ari-tczew: For instance, despite being a core-dev, I tend to ask before I do evil things to KDE packages.  But if I wanted to mangle one of stgraber's packages, I'd just do it because we work closely together and he'd hunt me down and smack me in the kneecaps if it annoyed him.
<infinity> ari-tczew: Until you're sure you have the latter relationship with the people who might be irked by your actions, it's always safer to assume the arm's-length stranger relationship and be polite.
<ari-tczew> if there is a clear sync - small delta forwarded to Debian and applied there, do I have to ask last uploader, as well?
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: I'd consider it polite to ask, yes. Maybe the last uploader holds off on uploading on purpose because he has other changes in the queue. A small "Hey XXX, mind if I sync libfoo from debian?" doesn't cost much time.
<stgraber> if you can build on all architectures and confirm the rest is absolutely identical to what's in the archive, syncing is probably fine without asking. However there are cases where we don't want to automatically sync from Debian, and doing a sync would bypass that, so it's always better to ask (and only takes a minute, so why not do it?)
<ari-tczew> stgraber: +1 for 1st sentence
<ari-tczew> stgraber: 2nd sentence: there is a blacklist for archive, right?
<infinity> ari-tczew: We only blacklist things we NEVER want to sync, not temporary "we're holding at this version on purpose" things.
<infinity> Oh, thanks launchpad, publishing two versions of libcorosync4 is exactly what I wanted you to do.
 * infinity headdesks.
<ari-tczew> infinity: so in that case please leave a comment on MoM "don't merge 0.1.2-3"
<ari-tczew> or sync, nevermind
<Ampelbein> Or just ask the TIL to give the ok.
<infinity> Sweetsha1k: Did you really mean to drop python-uno but keep half of libreoffice depending on it?
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein: if TIL doesn't response, what's next?
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: If there is no response in a reasonable timeframe (I'd say 1 week for non-critical stuff, less for more severe issues), carefully check a) the bugs in LP, b) the bugs in debian for new issues, c) possibly the vcs the debian developer is using (some ubuntu uploaders work with their debian upstreams).
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: And then if you are sure that everything works, upload to Ubuntu. Unlike me, who uploads his own package to Ubuntu and only then notices a FTBFS in Ubuntu.
<ari-tczew> ok
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein: if there is a merge which is available since e.g. half year, should do I ask?
<ari-tczew> (or more)
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: Use some common sense. Is the TIL otherwise active in Debian/Ubuntu? Is it something critical or just a minor fix for a spelling mistake in the manpage?
<infinity> ari-tczew: There may always be a reason for an outstanding merge.  Age doesn't mean much.
<infinity> ari-tczew: (My dpkg merge is a month old now, and there's definitely a valid reason I haven't merged it, for instance)
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein: I'm just asking theoretically
<infinity> I'd like to think, of course, that in the case of dpkg, a sponsor would shut you down if you tried to merge it, but still worth asking so you don't waste your time.
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: I can't give you a definite answer (I believe noone can). In any case, if a merge is 6 months old, it doesn' hurt to ask the TIL and wait another week for an ok.
<Ampelbein> There are literally tens of thousands of bugs open, you can work on any of those while waiting ;-)
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein: I'd like just to clean out outstanding merges from trivial syncs and then to ship new upstream releases (now it's quite too late, only a few days are remaining to FFe)
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: I understand that. But there are few situations where waiting a week is hurting.
<xnox> ari-tczew: i didn't read a whole scrollback, but essentially working especially on finding (a) packages that can now be synced (b) "pointless merges" (e.g. debian changes email, bumps standards version, etc. without actually fixing any bugs) doesn't bring any visible benefit to Ubuntu. Because the reason why sync is now possible is most likely because the person who TIL forwaded the changes to debian and they got accepted there, so TIL person will no
<xnox> tice it.
<xnox> ari-tczew: (b) will cause a package rebuild, bump version, but again there is no benefit to the user, that "Standards-Version" is now the latest.
<xnox> ari-tczew: it's better to for example focus on fixing bugs in highest crashing apps: https://errors.ubuntu.com/?release=Ubuntu%2013.10&period=year or for example focusing on fixing otherwise high priority bugs for packages of your interest.
<xnox> or looking at the merges list, and seeing/identifying which patches (a) make sense to be in debian (b) haven't been forwarded to debian yet. And doing modifications / forwarding patches to debian sensibly.
<xnox> "Getting packages in sync" with debian is ubuntu goal. But it means "actually do the work, prepare patches against debian package, test it & send to debian". Rather then filing "requestsync bugs and/or doing syncpackage" that's just a minor last step.
<xnox> ari-tczew: Fixing these http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ is also a good way to contribute to ubuntu.
#ubuntu-devel 2013-08-25
<ESphynx> hey guys, anybody aware of a bug effectively looking like you're looking at the back buffer?
<RAOF> ESphynx: Got some context? :))
<ESphynx> RAOF: hi
<ESphynx> basically, our toolkit is rendering to a pixmap and then right away doing a XCopyArea() to the Xlib window to update the screen
<ESphynx> I end up where pressing up highlights a selection down, and pressing down highlights a seleciton up sometimes...
<ESphynx> It's on and off and very strange! As much as I would like to think it's a bug in our toolkit and fix it, I've never ran into this before running Saucy on this new laptop... (nVidia drivers)
<RAOF> Hm. How are you rendering to the pixmap?
<ESphynx> Xlib / XRender calls
<ESphynx> For some reason I used to do an XFlush right after the XCopyArea(), it's still there...
<RAOF> You're not doing something strange with threads?
<ESphynx> The toolkit is using threads to handle events...
<RAOF> AFAIK the X protocol ensures that your rendering should be done before XCopyArea kicks in.
<ESphynx> I would think so, since both the pixmap and window are server side objects, right?
<ESphynx> I had even tried an XFlush() before the XCopyArea, I thought that helped, but in the end the problem still happened
<ESphynx> I have one thread doing a select on the X socket
<ESphynx> which essentially just wakes up the main thread, which will use XCheckIfEvent()
<ESphynx> I would suspect a display driver issue or something?
<RAOF> ESphynx: Plausibly.
<RAOF> ESphynx: Does it happen under different compositors / no compositor?
<ESphynx> well I was in Unity right now
<ESphynx> how can I try no compositor
<ESphynx> GNOME Flashback (No effects) would that be good/
<RAOF> Yeah, I think so.
<RAOF> You can also install metacity and run metacity --replace
<ESphynx> RAOF: In GNOME FB no fx, haven't been able to reproduce it yet! with quite a fair bit of hammering
<ESphynx> (To the detriment of my brand new lappy's poor keyboard :( )
<ESphynx> What does that say?
<RAOF> That it's possibly a damage issue.
<RAOF> (Or a Unity issue âº)
<ESphynx> I've seen it in GNOME as well
<ESphynx> (though not in GNOME classic it would seem)
<ESphynx> :S I can't even reproduce it in Unity now!
<ESphynx> It might be the new Unity that fixed it? I got a EN showing up now in the title bar
<ESphynx> damn all this time I was testing the GL driver :S
<ESphynx> definitely get the issue in Unity!
<ESphynx> OK I have definitely reproduced it in Gnome Classic as well.
<ESphynx> and in Gnome flashback (with fx as well)
<ESphynx> that is, only with fx
<ESphynx> Strange thing happens on Gnome Flashback with Effects: clicking on close button in top/left corner turns the title bar gray rather than closing the app ... It's basically very messed up. Does this mean it's the compositor? As soon as effects are on, everything is messed up
<ESphynx> Without effects, the close button works just fine!
<ESphynx> See http://ecere.com/mantis/view.php?id=987 -- exhausted, gonna go get some rest :| keep sleeping well guys :P
<GuidoPallemans> are there any guides on how to use the styles? I want to change the background color of all my pages and the foreground color of all my text
<GuidoPallemans> put a new app submission on the subreddit, will now post (the same) to g+
<Ampelbein> GuidoPallemans: You might be better off asking in #ubuntu-app-devel
<GuidoPallemans> hmm yes, maybe :D
#ubuntu-devel 2014-08-18
<pitti> Good morning
<dholbach> good morning
<Logan_> hey dholbach :)
<Unit193> Howdy.
<dholbach> hi Logan_
<dholbach> hi Unit193
<Unit193> dholbach: FWIW, I now have thunar-dropbox-plugin waiting in Debian NEW.
<dholbach> nice
<doko> pitti, do you want to continue with lintian?
<doko> ;-P
<doko> ScottK, Riddell: the kstars autopkg test failure seems to be gone, but the kactivities one is still there
<doko> preparation, please wait ...
<doko> comparing ABIs ...
<doko> comparing APIs ...
<doko> creating compatibility report ...
<doko> result: INCOMPATIBLE (Binary: 0%, Source: 27.2%)
<doko> total "Binary" compatibility problems: 0, warnings: 0
<doko> total "Source" compatibility problems: 43, warnings: 0
<doko> see detailed report:
<doko>   debian/libkactivities6/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dh-acc/libkactivities6_4:4.13.3-0ubuntu2_report.html
<doko> dh_acc: abi-compliance-checker -l libkactivities6 -d1 debian/libkactivities6.abi.tar.gz.amd64 -d2 debian/libkactivities6/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dh-acc/libkactivities6_4:4.13.3-0ubuntu2.abi.tar.gz -report-path debian/libkactivities6/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dh-acc/libkactivities6_4:4.13.3-0ubuntu2_report.html returned exit code 1
<doko> adt-run [02:17:12]: test acc: -----------------------]
<doko> adt-run [02:17:13]: test acc:  - - - - - - - - - - results - - - - - - - - - -
<doko> adt-run [02:17:13]: test acc:  - - - - - - - - - - stderr - - - - - - - - - -
<doko> acc                  FAIL non-zero exit status 1
<doko> ScottK, Riddell: this is really helpful information :-(
<pitti> doko: yes, lintian is on my list (there's a debian bug for it, but no patch yet, but should be simple)
<doko> dholbach, did you get any more information on the wx mess?
<LocutusOfBorg1> thanks pitti for the sync :)
<pitti> dholbach, doko: oh, do you happen to know about the wxwidgets/wxpython status? several tests fail due to some apparent version incompatibilities? (2.8 vs. 3.0), lik http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/utopic-adt-matplotlib/62/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/console
<dholbach> LocutusOfBorg1, ^
<doko> pitti, http://survex.com/~olly/wxpy3.tmp/  olly pointed me to that. maybe upload as -4~ubuntu1
<pitti> doko: ah, in Debian NEW
<pitti> wgrant, cjwatson: I'm trying to copy a langpack from the PPA to precise-proposed: copy-package -b --from=~ubuntu-langpack/ubuntu/ppa -s precise --to=ubuntu --to-suite precise-proposed language-pack-ja
<pitti> wgrant, cjwatson: this says "6 packages successfully copied", but doesn't actually do anything (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-ja/+publishinghistory)
<pitti> I tried last week, and now again; am I doing anything wrong in that command?
<wgrant> pitti: Oh, you left before I answered last week.
<wgrant> pitti: Check +queue.
<wgrant> pitti: They're in unapproved, as you'd expect.
<pitti> wgrant: aah, so that's where they end up; thanks!
<pitti> wgrant: yeah, I was on holiday last week, so I didn't want to keep IRC on all the time
<wgrant> A good excuse :)
<doko> pitti, are you looking at wxpython?
<pitti> doko: not ATM; currently testing new lintian and catching up with the usual batch of post-holiday backlog
<LocutusOfBorg1> sorry dholbach I cannot access to the link, anyway debian fixed it ;)
<dholbach> LocutusOfBorg1, so you're in touch with pitti and doko about the wx issues?
 * Bluefoxicy looks at what it would take to start lightdm and gdm with nice -5
<doko> pitti, please can you give back the matplotlib autopkg test?
<LocutusOfBorg1> dholbach, no I'm not, I cannot even see the link you provided me
<LocutusOfBorg1> but if it is not fixed doko pitti please tell me ;)
<dholbach> LocutusOfBorg1, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/utopic-adt-matplotlib/62/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/artifact/results/wxagg-stdout for example
<dholbach> (from https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/utopic-adt-matplotlib/62/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/)
<doko> jibel, pitti, please can you give back the matplotlib autopkg test?
<pitti> doko: it was already retried 4 times -- did anything change now to fix it?
<pitti> doko: ah, jibel already retried it
<pitti> ah, new wxpython3.0; it will re-run automatically once it's published
<mterry> mhall119, heyo!  I have a friend who doesn't want to create a flickr account, but does want to submit two photos to the wallpaper contest.  Do you know if there's an email way to submit?  Or if I can just put them in my account and have a little comment with correct attribution?
<LocutusOfBorg1> dholbach, yes thanks, anyway the build has been retried right now, and the bug is already tracked in debian
<LocutusOfBorg1> 758209
<LocutusOfBorg1> so I don't think there is much I can do ;)
<LocutusOfBorg1> dholbach, pitti doko successful
<LocutusOfBorg1> adt-run [12:28:39]: test wxagg: -----------------------]
<LocutusOfBorg1> adt-run [12:28:40]: test wxagg:  - - - - - - - - - - results - - - - - - - - - -
<LocutusOfBorg1> wxagg                PASS
<pitti> splendid!
<LocutusOfBorg1> ;)
<LocutusOfBorg1> sorry for having caused troubles :)
<doko> jibel, pitti: please could you re-run the autopkg test for kactivities? and if it fails, override it? no feedback from Riddell and ScottK
<ScottK> Sorry, haven't had time to look into it.
<ScottK> Please override it if a retry doesn't work.
<pitti> doko: retried
<pitti> doko: (although I don't think it'll help, it's the ABI checker that fails)
<pitti> I can't do overrides, only ~ubuntu-release
<ScottK> ping me if it fails and if I'm still around, I will.
<jibel> ScottK, this is a real test failure: dh_acc: abi-compliance-checker -l libkactivities6 -d1 debian/libkactivities6.abi.tar.gz.amd64 -d2 debian/libkactivities6/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dh-acc/libkactivities6_4:4.13.3-0ubuntu2.abi.tar.gz -report-path debian/libkactivities6/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dh-acc/libkactivities6_4:4.13.3-0ubuntu2_report.html returned exit code 1
<jibel> and retry failed
<ScottK> jibel: Thanks.
<ScottK> doko: test failure overriden.
<ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ needs looking into.
<mterry> mvo_, in bug 1358272, you say "security is checked".  Do you mean the security team has done a quick audit already?
<ubottu> bug 1358272 in debsig-verify (Ubuntu) "[MIR] debsig-verify" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1358272
<mvo_> mterry: sorry, this is misleading. I meant to write that I checked the security by auditing the package and writing a bunch of integration testcases for the click branch that integrates debsig-verify into click. AFAIK the security team did not yet review the code
<mvo_> mterry: I will clarify this in the bugreport
<mterry> mvo_, gotcha
<mvo_> mterry: thanks, I updated the page now to make it more clear what I did so far :)
<mterry> mvo_, is there a team you can subscribe to Ubuntu bugs?
<mvo_> mterry: hm, maybe click-developers
<mhall119> mterry: I'm not sure who's running the wallpaper contest, but I can try and find out
<mterry> mhall119, ah sorry  :)
<tedg> jodh, Any luck with the cgroup not getting created bug?
<jodh> tedg: as yet no. Currently trying to recreate it bottom up without all the test layers on top.
<doko> pitti, jibel: staring at the bzr autopkg test ... why did it fail? seems to be a timeout, but why?
<tedg> jodh, Ah, okay. Ping me if there's anything I can help with.
<pitti> doko: I don't know, I'm not familiar with the bzr test suite; but it happesn consistently, I already tried several re-runs
<Riddell> jibel: is ubuntu-iso-testing still in development?  I'm wondering how to set up a local version
<jibel> Riddell, no it was replaced utah 2 years ago. psivaa and plars can probably point you to the documentation.
<jibel> s/utah/by utah/
<plars> jibel: more than that I think, it was before I joined qa
<jibel> s/2 years/more than 2 years/ :)
<psivaa> jibel: Riddell: http://utah-test.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ is the docs for utah. ubuntu-iso-testing is still in use for precise iso testing though
<Riddell> thanks
<Riddell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation could do with some update then :)
<sil2100> hallyn: hello!
<sil2100> hallyn: I have been told that you might be able to help out with LP: #1357252
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1357252 in Ubuntu Application Launcher "Upstart jobs specifying cgroup fail to start occasionally" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1357252
<sil2100> hallyn: it's a critical issue from the landing team perspective, as with things being like they are right now it's making our test results unreliable
<jodh> sil2100: he's at a conference so as mentioned stgraber may be a better choice to hand over to.
<sil2100> jodh: thanks :)
<sil2100> stgraber: ping! If you're around, as mentioned above, maybe you could take a look at bug LP: #1357252 ? ^
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1357252 in Ubuntu Application Launcher "Upstart jobs specifying cgroup fail to start occasionally" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1357252
<stgraber> jodh: I'm preparing for the same conference
<jodh> sil2100: in which case, I suggest we investigate the possibility of disabling cgroup support in u-a-l temporarily until we have a work-around.
<sil2100> jodh: I told tvoss about my requests of a possible revert, but he mentioned that it's a critical feature
<sil2100> jodh: for now I gave some time for assessing the issue, hoping that we might get an ETA for the real fix
<jodh> sil2100: we don't understand the issue fully yet so can't provide an ETA at this point.
<stgraber> sil2100: TBH I wouldn't except to get much of Serge or my time on this until Monday next week
<sil2100> Ok, then a revert seems like the best option in overall
<tvoss> sil2100, +1, tedg ^, fyi
<stgraber> I'm busy preparing my talks and then we'll both be at a conference where as I understand it, the wifi isn't quite working (which is why Serge is currently offline)
<sil2100> It'll just be a temporary, so no worries - once this is fixed a no-change landing in the CI Train will 'get it back'
<jodh> sil2100: I understand this as being critical for rtm but it's only just been enabled so is there really no scope to revert for a few days?
<jodh> sil2100: +1
<tvoss> jodh, I was argueing for keeping it in to get some mileage on it
<tvoss> jodh, however, without a fix, we risk impacting other teams' work, so yeah ... out it goes :)
<jodh> tvoss: understood :)
<exarkun> is there anything I can do to bring some attention (and hopefully a resolution) to <https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1356931>?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1356931 in mplayer (Ubuntu) "Mplayer & dvdnav - No stream found to handle url" [Undecided,New]
<dobey> anyone know why this would happen? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8057237/
<dobey> i'm declaring new symbols in the symbols file, but dpkg-gensymbols is complaining about them anyway
<dobey> nobody? :(
<dobey> this is driving me crazy right now
<seb128> dobey, do you have that online somewhere where we can get/test it?
<dobey> seb128: lp:~dobey/ubuntuone-credentials/check-timeout
<dobey> seb128: i'm doing bzr -bd -S -- -sa to create the source, and the building it with sbuild. and it keeps failing with those missing symbols :-/
<dobey> i even tried adding them twice, but still no luck
<dobey> thanks for looking seb128
<seb128> yw!
<barry> Laney: any chance LP: #1344386 rings a bell?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1344386 in gnome-do (Ubuntu) "Do.exe crashed with SIGABRT in __GI_raise()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1344386
<seb128> dobey, using those lines work
<seb128>  (c++)"UbuntuOne::Token::created() const@Base" 14.04+14.10.20140802
<seb128>  (c++)"UbuntuOne::Token::updated() const@Base" 14.04+14.10.20140802
<seb128> dobey, you forgot the const in yours
<dobey> seb128: i don't see a const in the one it's expecting?
<seb128> dobey, you mean?
<seb128> dobey, oh, in the error?
<dobey> + _ZNK9UbuntuOne5Token7createdEv@Base 14.04+14.10.20140802
<dobey> yes
<seb128> dobey, they start with _ZNK
<seb128> dobey, there wouldn't be a K if it was not a const
<seb128> (don't ask, dunno why)
<seb128> the non const ones are _ZN...
<dobey> oh
<seb128> secret of mangling I guess ;-)
<dobey> seb128: i wish the error output was run through c++filt :-/
<seb128> yeah...
<infinity> seb128: What useful thing have you forgotten in order to be able to demangle C++ symbols in your head? :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> I'm not able to
<seb128> I just reverse debugged that one by deleting other symbols and looking at the differences :p
<dobey> yet another way in which c++ makes one feel like a complete idiot
<seb128> dobey, let me know if it works for you btw, seems to be fine here
<dobey> seb128: yes, it worked. thanks
<seb128> dobey, yw!
<seb128> barry, hey, saw your mono/glib bug, do you think you could get a gdb backtrace for desrt?
<barry> seb128: yep, i'm trying to get all the pieces in place for that
<seb128> thanks
<stgraber>  /query hallyn
<stgraber> oops, extra space in front of that :)
<exarkun> is there anything I can do to bring some attention (and hopefully a resolution) to <https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1356931>?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1356931 in mplayer (Ubuntu) "Mplayer & dvdnav - No stream found to handle url" [Undecided,New]
<hallyn> bug 1357252
<ubottu> bug 1357252 in Ubuntu Application Launcher "Upstart jobs specifying cgroup fail to start occasionally" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1357252
#ubuntu-devel 2014-08-19
<hallyn> hi - so jdstrand has found that the latest qemu merge into utopic dropped the kvm-img symlink (to qemu-img).  libvirt caches the path it finds at startup so is unhappy.  my q is, should i re-add the link, or should i have qemu restart libvirt at postinst?
<hallyn> no wait
<hallyn> those have been gone for awhile.
<hallyn> jdstrand: so you ran into that bc you upgraded from saucy version;  but kvm-img symlink has actually been gone since trusty.
<robert_ancell> Can anyone help me get https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgtop2/2.30.0.is.2.30.0-0ubuntu1 out of the NEW queue? I just rebuild all the dependencies to find they rebuilt against the old version :(
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> robru: FYI, ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts regressed its autopkgtest, so it won't land in utopic
<pitti> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/utopic-adt-ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts/161
<robru> pitti, thanks for the heads up
<robru> pitti, any chance to just retry those? seems transient, like the infra is failing to start the app
<pitti> robru: running
<robru> pitti, thanks
<pitti> robru: nope, still the same crash (on both arches), so this smells like a regression
<pitti> "Appears process has already exited"
<pitti> seems the app crashes
<robru> pitti, hrm, can you ping dbarth about it? I'm EOD, and it's his landing. sorry
<pitti> robru: yes
<robru> pitti, thanks
<ari-tczew> Hello devs! There are a lot of merges still waiting to be sponsored in _main_ and only 2 days left to Feature Freeze. So if somebody got a little bit free time, would be nice to get them into archive ;-)
<pitti> robru: mailed him
<robru> pitti, thanks!
<dholbach> good morning
<ari-tczew> hello dholbach
<dholbach> hi ari-tczew
<pitti> infinity: shoudl the eglibc source be removed from utopic now?
<geser> zul: do we need the source package oslo.db (0.2.0-0ubuntu1) in the archive while we also have python-oslo.db (0.3.0-0ubuntu1)? can the former be removed?
<Tribaal> dholbach: thanks for the review!
<Tribaal> (for ubumirror)
<dholbach> anytime
<Tribaal> dholbach: for what it's worth, I'm applying for Ubuntu membership in tomorrow's session - your +1 is welcome if you think I'm doing a good enough job :)
<Tribaal> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tribaal)
<infinity> pitti: Needs me to fix the cross packages to work with glibc-source first, but it can and will be removed after that.
<infinity> pitti: Perfectly reasonable to remove it from autopkgtests, though, if you can do that.
<pitti> infinity: ah, thanks; I just wondered if it was merely forgotten
<pitti> infinity: it will come back, as it still has the xs-testsuite: flag; but it doesn't do much harm
<infinity> Just a slight waste of resources every time it's triggered, but yeah.
<Tribaal> dholbach: thanks a lot :)
<sil2100> wgrant: hey! :)
<sil2100> wgrant: so, I noticed something strange just now
<sil2100> wgrant: we cleaned out packages from an ubuntu-rtm PPA (silo for CI Train), the PPA doesn't list any packages anymore but we still see them in the Packages file
<sil2100> wgrant: as for instance here: http://ppa.launchpad.net/ci-train-ppa-service/landing-001/ubuntu-rtm/dists/14.09/main/binary-armhf/Packages
<sil2100> wgrant: and it's like this since hours now
<wgrant> 7.1.4+rtm+rtm+rtm+rtm+14.09.20140819-0ubuntu1
<wgrant> Impressive version!
<mlankhorst> must rtm!
<wgrant> sil2100: Is it possible that your deletion raced with build completion?
<wgrant> I think it's the normal deletion vs. build race.
<wgrant> The armhf build finished just a couple of minutes before the source was deleted, so the binaries missed being deleted.
<wgrant> Deleting the source again will properly take the new binaries with it.
<sil2100> hmmm, maybe
<zul> geser:  former can be removed
<cjwatson> sil2100: has the bug that created the multiple +rtm bits been fixed?
<sil2100> cjwatson: not yet, robru had some workarounds tried but not much results, I'm stuck in meetings right now
<sil2100> cjwatson: but looking at it
<sil2100> cjwatson: I'll just modify the regex so that it's not a problem anymore, just need some time to parse it first
<infinity> sil2100, cjwatson: So, I wanted to have a chat about RTM versioning in general anyway, nevermind the lollerskates multiple +rtm bits.
<infinity> If the policy is utopic first, then "backport" to RTM, the RTM versions should be lower (ie: ~, not +) than the utopic versions.
<wgrant> Also the rtm is on the wrong end.
<infinity> And it should be at the end, yes.
<sil2100> infinity: so... regarding that, it was like that originally but caused problems during uploads
<wgrant> Though I guess if we never cross-grade then that's not a problem.
<infinity> So, 1.2.3+14.09.20140101-0ubuntu1~rtm
<sil2100> infinity: since let's take such an example:
<infinity> sil2100: What problems were caused, and was it because of the rtm being in a weird position in the version?
<sil2100> infinity: well, most problems come from how CI Train is creating its version numbers
<infinity> wgrant: So, yeah, I don't think supporting people going read-write on their phones and having apt-get upgrade work correctly is a big priority, but I don't think having it gratuitously broken when we can just version correctly is reasonable either.
<sil2100> infinity: it's doing it like this -> version+series.date-0ubuntu1
<infinity> sil2100: It should just create them as it always has, but for rtm, tack ~rtm on the very end, and done.
<cjwatson> Not that simple unfortunately
<sil2100> infinity: right, but you can't take the same version
<sil2100> infinity: since we're not doing a copy of a package from ubuntu to ubuntu-rtm
<infinity> ?
<cjwatson> Consider an existing package that's 1+14.10.20140819-0ubuntu1
<sil2100> infinity: we're cherry picking single fixes, so it's a completely different package
<cjwatson> citrain then wanted to upload 1+14.09.20140819-0ubuntu1
<cjwatson> Which is less than what was already in that series, so not uploadable
<cjwatson> And yeah, what sil2100 said, these aren't necessarily wholesale backports
<infinity> Oh, it already has the 14.10 versus 14.09...
<infinity> In which case, who cares about the "rtm" being in there at all?
<sil2100> infinity: so as cjwatson mentions, this causes some problems because you actually build a new package, so generate a new version
<cjwatson> infinity: might clash in the future
<infinity> Anyhow, I'm still not seeing the problem, I guess I'm dense.
<infinity> PPAs can go backwards (once the previous is deleted), you just can't reuse identical versions.
<cjwatson> Doing that in a proper distribution routinely would be terrible though.
<cjwatson> I mean, yes, technically possible.  Shouldn't.
<infinity> But... RTM and Ubuntu aren't the same distro.
<cjwatson> Also, since the upstream tarballs are generated independently, any "rtm" identifier has to be in the upstream part, not the packaging-revision part.
<infinity> Oh.
<sil2100> infinity: ok, we could do that, but that would mean we would have to force those uploads to happen, and have a shift of versions
<wgrant> Oh, ew.
<cjwatson> infinity: but Ubuntu has been copied into RTM, including lots of 14.10 versions
<infinity> But if we forked 14.10, then upload a new one.
<infinity> Derp.
<infinity> Kay.
<infinity> So, why are we versioning at 14.09?
<cjwatson> Because that's when we plan to release
<sil2100> That's the series name
<sil2100> And yeah, that's probably the reason for that name ;p
<cjwatson> Ideally, citrain would look at the history of the package and identify the new version with something related to the last Ubuntu version
<infinity> But that means this whole rollback issue is, well, an issue.
<infinity> And that we're stuck with inflating "upstream" versions to fix it.
<infinity> Which is gross.
<infinity> Really gross.
<cjwatson> It is nasty, but not fatal
<infinity> Nasty, in that all of those upstream components need newer versions in utopic, even if there's not actually been a new upstream release.
<Saviq> cjwatson, hey, can you tell us if session dbus / upstart details are supposed to be available to click hooks? otherwise is there a state-of-the-art way to contact the running user session?
<cjwatson> I mean, neither that nor going backwards is technically a problem, since we don't expect this to be used via apt very much
<cjwatson> But keeping things going forwards is less confusing for humans
<cjwatson> infinity: I don't think that's true
<Saviq> (from a hook)
<infinity> I know catering to apt users is a very low priority, I'd just like to see if it can be made to work correctly anyway.
<cjwatson> Saviq: System-level or user-level hooks?
<Saviq> cjwatson, user-level
<infinity> cjwatson: It's true if we want them to be upgradable at all.  It's not if we pretend those users won't exist.
<cjwatson> Saviq: They're run from the user's upstart session, so the usual stuff should be available.
<Saviq> cjwatson, basically we need to refresh launcher items on app install/upgrade/uninstall
<infinity> 1.2.3+rtm > 1.2.3, so utopic now needs 1.2.4 to compensate.
<cjwatson> infinity: Only if we expect people to be able to upgrade from ubuntu-rtm/14.09 to ubuntu/utopic.
<infinity> Whereas if the rtm bit was in the datestamp portion of the version, it would not be problematic to fix without new upstream releases.
<cjwatson> Which I don't think is a realistically useful requirement.
<Saviq> cjwatson, hmm wonder why mzanetti's hook isn't getting them, see anything wrong http://paste.ubuntu.com/8086809/ ?
<infinity> cjwatson: I don't think it's unreasonably to suggest it could be made to work, not to go out of our way to do so.
<infinity> cjwatson: But given the versioning is completely broken ANYWAY, may as well fix both in one go?
<infinity> Indeed, if they were just 14.10 instead of 14.09, new datestamps would solve the ordering issue for the archive, and putting an "rtm" string later would allow us to easily identify forked packages for later analysis.
<cjwatson> infinity: I don't have a problem with doing it as UPSTREAM+14.09.20140819+rtm-0ubuntu1 or something; I don't know that it helps much but I haven't thought in great detail about the constraints involved, so if you wanted to go for that kind of thing then be my guest
<sil2100> For me it's not a big deal if we switch from rtm+14.09 to 14.09, but I would have to know if we can easily push that to the archives even though there will be an error that the archive already has a never wersion
<cjwatson> infinity: The other thing to ensure is uniqueness between ubuntu and ubuntu-rtm; Launchpad itself doesn't require that as such but we should
<infinity> cjwatson: Would need to be 14.10, not 14.09, as 14.09 is the reason you have to inflate UPSTREAM.
<cjwatson> sil2100: Yeah, it would need to be 14.10 if we did that, I guess, with an extra tag
<cjwatson> Which might not be terrible, although it's more special-casing
<cjwatson> Hm, wonder if the parent series is available via the API
<sil2100> hm, we could do that, but as you meantioned it would be a special case in CI Train as well
<sil2100> I don't mind that much, I just have no preference here
<wgrant> cjwatson: Not the cross-distro parent series, no.
<wgrant> Just the previous one within the distro, if any.
<cjwatson> It sure is, via getParentSeries
<infinity> cjwatson: So, I was thinking UPSTREAM+14.10.20140819~rtm-0ubuntu1, so that if someone does a utopic and RTM build on the same day, the sort order comes out right.
<cjwatson> In [7]: rtm1409.getParentSeries()[0].version
<cjwatson> Out[7]: u'14.10'
<cjwatson> infinity: seems OK
<wgrant> Oh, so it is.
<cjwatson> so it's even doable programmatically, which is nice
<infinity> Now, the stuff that's had UPSTREAM+rtm(+rtm(+rtm)) versions will need upstream minor bumps to fix them, but everything else would Just Work in a seemingly sane way.
<cjwatson> infinity: RTM's going to be flushed in bulk anyway
<infinity> cjwatson: Oh, we're starting fresh?  Excellent.
<cjwatson> Was going to be today, but we haven't had a promoted image
<cjwatson> Basically everything with the exception of ubuntu-keyring will be reset
<infinity> Then, yes, unless there are objections or better ideas, can we call UPSTREAM+14.10.20140819~rtm-0ubuntu1 a concensus and make it work?
<wgrant> cjwatson: Does derive-distribution know to delete sources that it's going to downgrade?
<cjwatson> wgrant: Oh, possibly not.  Does it need to wait a publisher cycle, or is requesting the deletion first sufficient?
<wgrant> cjwatson: No need to wait.
<infinity> That makes apt upgrades work, and keeps the archive constraint issue under control, so both parties are happy.
<wgrant> There just needs to be no active publication with a greater version by the time the dominator runs.
<wgrant> Hm, the copier will reject too, I guess.
<wgrant> So it needs to be deleted first, but still no need to wait.
<cjwatson> Right, I'll sort that out before we flush
<cjwatson> sil2100: Could you implement infinity's proposal?  It looks nicer than what we have now.
 * cjwatson tries to resist the temptation to try to do a "quick" perl 5.20 transition before FF
<infinity> cjwatson: Perl transitions usually are pretty quick, unless a few too many modules got eaten by or spit out of perl-modules.
<infinity> cjwatson: (consider that a +1 and offer to help during Debconf, if you feel the urge)
<cjwatson> It's looking pretty good in Debian, actually, yeah.  https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/perl5.20.html
<sil2100> cjwatson: sure
<cjwatson> sil2100: thanks!
<infinity> sil2100: \o/
<infinity> cjwatson: Yeah, that looks pretty smooth.
<cjwatson> Oh, and perl is multiarch now!
<cjwatson> That's a pretty hot reason.
<infinity> cjwatson: Crank that +1 up to 11.
<sil2100> infinity: btw. that +rtm+rtm+rtm was a bug ;p !
<infinity> sil2100: Obviously, yes. :)
<sil2100> infinity: it wasn't a feature! ;)
<Laney> RTMs all the way down
<infinity> sil2100: But with Colin's getParentSeries()[0].version discovery, I think my proposal ends up looking a lot cleaner, and solves both your concern and mine in one go.
<infinity> sil2100: So, given that we're about to flush the world, a perfect time to fix it. ;)
<infinity> sil2100: And thanks in advance!
<sil2100> infinity: indeed ;) I guess that makes sense, it's just that by default we wanted to do it as it was before as the version number had the 'series' bit
<sil2100> infinity: but it's no problem changing that
<cjwatson> doko: Mind if I use https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-toolchain-r/+archive/ubuntu/ppa to stage the perl 5.20 transition?
<cjwatson> (Just the first level or two)
<cjwatson> doko: Actually, never mind, I'll use one of my own
<cjwatson> infinity: Any objection to me doing a mass retry of failed builds?  I've found quite a few in update_excuses that succeed on retry, and it probably doesn't make sense for me to keep looking manually
<doko> cjwatson, utopic should be fine
<cjwatson> Maybe I should do it overnight rather than now though.
<doko> cjwatson, mass retry: yes, that makes sense. we didn't have a mass retry yet this cycle
<cjwatson> doko: perl is nearly finished building in https://launchpad.net/~cjwatson/+archive/ubuntu/devirt/+packages now, then I'll rebuild the important modules
<tinoco> back
<Saviq> mzanetti
<Saviq> not here
<pitti> SpamapS: heh, I just noticed "undistract-me" by sheer accident in an apt-cache search -- nice!
<mzanetti> cjwatson: hey, not sure what Saviq and tedg already told you... I have the issue that the environment is not set up when my hook is executed. any pointers?
<mzanetti> this is the hook: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8089030/
<cjwatson> mzanetti: Can you check #ubuntu-touch backlog/logs rather than me repeating it here?
<mzanetti> ok
<cjwatson> Looks like you were in that channel at the time
<SpamapS> pitti: It's a great tool.. I love it.
<SpamapS> pitti: thank "jono" tho ;)
<cjwatson> jdstrand: I'm working on switching to Perl 5.20, and apparmor fails: https://launchpad.net/~cjwatson/+archive/ubuntu/devirt/+packages
<cjwatson> jdstrand: The first bit of this is that there needs to be something to switch debian/libapparmor-perl.install to $Config{vendorarch} rather than /usr/lib/perl5 (see https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=748380), but there are some other matches for "usr/lib/perl5" in apparmor, and I wonder if any policies or databases or whatever would need to be updated?
<ubottu> Debian bug 748380 in debian-policy "perl-policy: @INC changes for multiarch" [Normal,Open]
<arges> cjwatson: pitti : hello, i'm trying to use 'copy-proposed-kernel' in the archive tools; and it isn't copying kernels as it normally does. the launchpadlib/login stuff seems fine; and the command completes, but i receive no emails/notifications that the kernel was put into proposed
<pitti> arges: for which release?
<arges> pitti: precise/trusty
<arges> pitti: i've only tried precise at the moment
<pitti> arges: hm, nothing in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue?queue_state=1
<arges> also i've updated my tools to revision 885
<pitti> arges: I tripped over that recently, stuff now lands in unapproved (where it actually belongs)
<jdstrand> jdstrand: ok, I'll take a look at it
<cjwatson> arges: Which version?
<arges> cjwatson: i'm trying to execute 'copy-proposed-kernel precise linux'
<cjwatson> arges: Yeah, which version should it be copying, so that I can grep logs without it taking all week? :)
<cjwatson> jdstrand: Thanks.  The requisite perl is only in that PPA for now (copied from Debian)
<arges> cjwatson: linux - 3.2.0-68.102
<cjwatson> arges: Well, that seems to have copied just fine.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/linux/3.2.0-68.102
<arges> cjwatson: why didn't it email me, nor do i see it with 'rmadison linux' ?
<cjwatson> Former: don't know.  Latter: publication hasn't completed yet
<arges> ok...
<cjwatson> rmadison looks at the published and mirrored archive on disk
<arges> cjwatson: also not sure if its already a known issue but pending-sru's seem to be a bit out of date
<cjwatson> arges: Mm, I don't know what the problem is there, but I can see there's a job running at the moment (for ~12 minutes) so hopefully that'll clear soon ...
<arges> cjwatson: ok thanks
<cjwatson> arges: If not, bdmurray gets the cron mail from that
<arges> cjwatson: and now its emailing me... with the last copy-proposed-kernel
<arges> wierd
<cjwatson> pitti: bug 1358764 looks like a regression from latest util-linux upload
<ubottu> bug 1358764 in util-linux (Ubuntu) "click crashed with subprocess.CalledProcessError in check_call(): Command '['debootstrap', '--arch', 'amd64', '--variant=buildd', '--components=main,restricted,universe,multiverse', 'utopic', '/var/lib/schroot/chroots/click-ubuntu-sdk-14.10-armhf', 'http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu']' returned non-zero exit status 1" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1358764
<cjwatson> slangasek: ^- (that's the one I mentioned to you as well)
<slangasek> yep
<cjwatson> just occurred to me I should tell the latest uploader
<slangasek> so the difference I notice is that this is the first util-linux rebuilt with the new debhelper that includes the init scripts alongside the upstart jobs
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, thanks
<slangasek> probably a latent bug then exposed by the rebuild, and I'll take a look at it today
<pitti> I suppose the previous debootstrap-ish tests didn't take util-linux from proposed
<pitti> cjwatson, slangasek: we have TB meeting in 9 mins -- how urgent is that? is a proper fix tomorrow morning sufficient, or does that need a quick panic fix today? (I don't have much time left today)
<ogra_> pitti, it prevents image builds (debootstrap falls over)
<cjwatson> it's blocking all image builds and click chroot setup, and rickspencer3 escalated it to me
<cjwatson> I think we need something quick
<pitti> ok, so "panic fix" it is
<ogra_> or a rollback today and a proper fix tomorrow
<pitti> presumably we can just drop the init.d script
<pitti> as that's the main change
<pitti> (wrt. that bug)
<pitti> I thought it was better to keep it, as that's the general direction we went to for insserv
<pitti> cjwatson, slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8090000/ test-sbuilding now
<pitti> TBH I don't quite understand the insserv error, we do have /etc/init.d/mountdevsubfs.sh (and outside of debootstrap it worked fine), but that shold do for now
<pitti> any init.d dependency to hwclock.sh would have been broken until today as well, so obviously that's not much of a problem
<pitti> infinity: TB meeting now
<slangasek> pitti: that's fine for an emergency fix, but it will leave the stale file on disk for anyone who's already upgraded; I'll work on a proper fix today
<pitti> slangasek: does that hurt?
<slangasek> not as long as we remember to take care of it all later
<pitti> slangasek: I mean, I'd like it to come back, but that needs some deeper fix
<cjwatson> thanks to you both
<pitti> slangasek: it upgraded and installed fine on several machines as well as the phone, after all
<pitti> cjwatson, slangasek: binary debdiff looks ok, installing/upgrading now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8090037/
<pitti> meh, not good
<pitti> take 2, building
<roadmr> hello folks! mk-sbuild --arch=amd64 utopic fails with this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8090049/ seems to have trouble installing a bunch of packages :/
<pitti> slangasek, cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8090061/ built, tested upgrade, tested fresh install (in chroot), worked now
<pitti> I didn't test debootstrap yet
 * pitti wonders how to do that with a local package
<pitti> but TBH I'd just upload it to -proposed and test it once it's published there
<pitti> faster turnaround, and very likely to work; WDYT?
<pitti> slangasek: ^
<pitti> (I can set a block-proposed until that happened)
<slangasek> pitti: gah, manual postinst handling of scripts!  Yeah, JFDI
<pitti> slangasek: I'll reopen the bug after that, to clean this up properly (put back the script, or clean it up on upgrade)
<pitti> cjwatson: do you happen to know whether I can ask debootstrap to include -proposed? It seems it doesn't know about pockets at all
<ogra_> isnt there a --components switch ?
<ogra_> oh, that wouldnt cover proposed i guess ...
<pitti> ogra_: right, that's a pocket, not a component
<ogra_> yeah :/
<pitti> slangasek, cjwatson: I think I fully understand what's going on now, bug updated
<pitti> so I'll probably just drop "block-proposed", let it propagate, verify, and then we wash/rinse/repeat if it really still fails
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> just shovel it through :)
<ogra_> cant be worse ;)
<slangasek> pitti: the bug is specifically listed as "upgrades from saucy"; I think readding it now should be fine
<pitti> slangasek: yeah, that's my hope
<slangasek> pitti: and if it breaks something else, we should fix it somewhere else, not by bypassing the rightful dependency
<slangasek> (which, btw, does nothing for "transitively essential status", contrary to infinity's changelog entry)
<pitti> slangasek: ack; so I'll go with that (but tomorrow morning, when I can do upgrade testing from trusty to utopic + file:// with new util-linux with initscripts dep)
<slangasek> pitti: well, I was planning on looking at all of this today, I'm not sure why you were roped into fixing this urgently :)
<pitti> cjwatson: well, technically I broke it (uploader), and he pinged me; it seemed to me I was on the hook for this?
<pitti> err, slangasek
<slangasek> no, /I/ broke it, I changed debhelper ;)
<pitti> (wow, two people fighting over getting the blame for breaking the world, yay!)
<pitti> slangasek: btw, do you consider the sysvinit merge relevant for FF? it doesn't have much in terms of new features, but it's not a simple change either
 * ogra_ guesses cjwatson just doesnt want to lose the place on your couch and quickly pushed it to pitti 
<slangasek> pitti: well, how about if I review it with my release hat on as well as my I-hate-sysvinit hat
<pitti> haha
<pitti> slangasek: but it's simple and robust!
<pitti> *cough*
<pitti> ogra_: ok, it's built everywhere, so I hope in about 2 hours or so you'll have image builds back
<slangasek> simple and robust, like a Bulgarian collective farm worker
<pitti> ogra_: in the meantime, enjoy the beautifully colored dmesg :)
<ogra_> pitti, thanks !
<ogra_> lol
<pitti> how can 5.000 lines of intertwined shell scripts be anything else!
<ogra_> tall that all these crazy guys that write their stuff in C++
 * ogra_ still hopes for a libreoffice shell port one day :)
<Laney> someone made us all use Qt :(
<pitti> TBH I'm not entirely sure whether I dislike C++ or sysvinit more :)
<ogra_> heh
<cjwatson> pitti: debootstrap doesn't have any sensible way to process multiple Packages files, so no
<pitti> 'nuff trolling for the evening
<cjwatson> You might as well just JFDI
<pitti> cjwatson: ack, that's what I thought; thanks for confirming
<pitti> cjwatson: yeah, I went that route now
<cjwatson> You can do it by manually constructing a unified view, but given it's already broken it's not worth it ...
<cjwatson> slangasek: well, I roped pitti in because I hadn't debugged it far enough to know that I shouldn't :)
<pitti> cjwatson: that's fine; I now know more about insserv and related bugs than I ever desired :)
<pitti> (since roughly the Malta sprint, and having fun breaking utopic with xnox)
<cjwatson> roadmr: your bug is the same as the subject of the last few pages of discussion here, BTW
<roadmr> cjwatson: oh! fun, I'll read the backscroll more carefully, I got a bit distracted
<dobey> pitti: does being langpack-ified even provide any useful advantage any more?
<pitti> dobey: smaller deb/image size mostly, and the ability to update/add translations post-release/decoupled from landings
<dobey> pitti: we have a way to update langpacks and install additional ones on the phone, separate from a full image update?
<pitti> dobey: but mostly, we already have langpacks for the packages in main, so we have to use them anyway
<pitti> dobey: no, they still come through image updates
 * ogra_ scratches head and wonders what udev-finish is or does ... 
<pitti> so this is mostly about consistency, and not having 80% of the deb's translations use one method and 20% use the other
<ogra_> i just noticed it gets execute on phone suspend
<ogra_> *executed
<pitti> ogra_: that's a bug; it's supposed to only run during boot, no need to run at suspend
<ogra_> pitti, what does it do actually ?
<ogra_> the upstart job talks about copying rules around
<pitti> ogra_: it only moves dynamic rules which were generated in initramfs/very early boot from /run/ to /etc/udev/rules.d/
<pitti> which is pretty much just 70-persistent-net.rules these days
<ogra_> oh well, then we should probably override it as a whole
<pitti> (totally not interesting on a phone, FTR)
<ogra_> since there is no writable target it could use
<pitti> ogra_: the more interesting question is what triggers it on suspend
 * ogra_ makes a note to add an override .... 
<cjwatson> dobey: wouldn't be that hard to do
<pitti> start on (startup and filesystem and started udev and stopped udevtrigger and stopped udevmonitor)
<ogra_> pitti, yeah, thats too
<dobey> cjwatson: what wouldn't be?
<pitti> ogra_: do you get udev restarts or anything similar during suspend?
<cjwatson> dobey: 17:48 <dobey> pitti: we have a way to update langpacks and install additional ones on the phone, separate from a full image update?
<ogra_> pitti, we shouldnt and i dont see any in syslog ...
<cjwatson> the last thing you said :)
<ogra_> pitti, we stop udev during boot though ... since it would clash with ueventd in the container
<ogra_> and only start it again after the container is up and has loaded frimware and stuff
<pitti> with an additional glibc patch we could build click langpacks, yes; but not sure whether that's worth the trouble, given how often we'll push out new images anyway
<pitti> ogra_: but is it stopped for suspend?
<ogra_> pitti, not explicitly, no
<pitti> ogra_: but anyway, even if you did, it's a big "and" condition
<dobey> cjwatson: eh, i don't much see the point really. i'd rather just get rid of langpacks :)
<pitti> ogra_: I wonder if there's some kind of "initctl monitor" to see what's going on
<cjwatson> pitti: shouldn't need that, just have a hook symlink them into the right place
<ogra_> pitti, yes, got it in front of me
<pitti> dobey: fair enough, we just need to do it for the whole distro then
<ogra_> i wonder if there is a hack somewhere or some such that calls udevtrigger
<cjwatson> dobey: the point would be a carrier that wants to do its own translations for their market
<pitti> ogra_: that would be really wrong; but even that wouldn't explain how all 5 conditions would be simultaneously true
<dobey> cjwatson: but they can just build a custom image with their translations too.
<ogra_> pitti, oh, indeed ... not an "or"
<pitti> dobey: not if they are shipped in the actual application debs
<cjwatson> dobey: not without modifying our rootfs, which we want to avoid carriers doing
<ogra_> pitti, might be it hung until that suspend/resume cycle asnd i just get that syslog line because it finally timed out
<cjwatson> dobey: being able to do it in a click package would let them just ship such a thing in their custom tarball
<dobey> cjwatson: not if the system just supported translations in /custom or whatever
<cjwatson> dobey: the preferred architecture for supporting things in /custom is by way of click packages, where possible
<cjwatson> (of course it isn't always possible, but where it is)
<dobey> cjwatson: right, but it doesn't mean our translations necessarily need to be in those clicks
<cjwatson> sure
<jdstrand> hallyn: that's a bummer. with KSM_ENABLED=0 I just saw 4 VMs go down
<pitti> ogra_: ah, good point; so you only saw it once, not for each suspend?
<ogra_> pitti, well, i'm looking at a syslog on a bug :)
 * jdstrand goes back to saucy qemu
<dobey> cjwatson: has that been a concern brought up by an carriers? (just curious)
<cjwatson> dobey: not that I know of (though I wouldn't necessarily expect to); I'm anticipating
<dobey> well, at least my phone doesn't have all the translations for pidgin on it any more :)
<cjwatson> that's the other benefit of language packs, makes it much easier to select which translations we want to ship at the last minute
<jdstrand> hallyn: (a reboot didn't bring them back)
<jdstrand> hallyn: shoot, it was all of my security vms
<jdstrand> hallyn: I did the 'uvt update' (ie, the commands stated in the bug) earlier today and they are all gone (with KSM disabled)
<jdstrand> sarnold: fyi, ^
<bdmurray> cjwatson: https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/ubuntu-archive-tools/use-devel/+merge/231427 <- fix for the sru-report
<pitti> cjwatson, slangasek: FYI, autopkgtest nodes are super-busy as dbus and other stuff also landed; so if it's urgent, you might consider fast-tracking util-linux?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: ah, so my fault, doh
<cjwatson> bdmurray: merged, thanks
<bdmurray> cjwatson: no problem
<cjwatson> arges: ^-
<pitti> Laney: FTR, I'm afraid the colord failure looks real
<cjwatson> slangasek: I think something like that dependency did show up as a problem in trusty->utopic (in fact IIRC something similar blew up all utopic builds for a while).  Last I heard it was on Michael's plate to investigate as an apt bug)
<cjwatson> So I would say on the contrary there are some reasons to believe that reintroducing that dependency would be a problem :-/
<slangasek> cjwatson: mm.  Well, we'll have to check what happens
<jtaylor> mh microrelease SRUs need an microrelease exception right?
<jtaylor> even if I normal non version bumping sru would have the same diff?
<cjwatson> pitti: hm, I think I'll leave it as I'm about to finish for the day and don't want to end up breaking something else
<pitti> fun, *now* the lxc autopkgtest reproduces the util-linux bug
 * pitti wants debootstrap with -proposed to discover these
<pitti> Laney: ^ FTR, will re-try once util-linux lands (that's currently blocking dbus)
<ogra_> pitti, i thought dbus was blocked on purpose
<ogra_> since the landing is scarily huge
<pitti> ogra_: ah right, that too
<ogra_> phew ... dont scare me :)
<pitti> ogra_, slangasek: ok, nevermind the fast-tracking; kdepimlibs is "always failed", the others all suceeded now, so it'll go in with the next publisher
<ogra_> yay
<pitti> [ubuntu/utopic] util-linux 2.25-8ubuntu2 (Accepted)
<pitti> slangasek, ogra_: there you go ^ kthxnight!
<slangasek> pitti: g'night
<ogra_> pitti, thanks a lot !!!
<exarkun> is there anything I can do to bring some attention (and hopefully a resolution) to <https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1356931>?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1356931 in mplayer (Ubuntu) "Mplayer & dvdnav - No stream found to handle url" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> jdstrand: Any luck with apparmor and perl 5.20?  I was hoping to be able to copy my staging PPA into utopic-proposed tonight or tomorrow, so that I don't have to deal with too much skew
<jdstrand> cjwatson: sorry no. I had a rather catastrophic vm and unrelated unity7 situation that really destroyed my productivity
<jdstrand> I'm about back to where I was when we last spoke, but I have to get another update out. that said, I plan to look at this tonight/tomorrow morning
<cjwatson> jdstrand: OK, thanks.  Something like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libtemplate-perl/2.24-1.2 might be a helpful course to follow for the .install part
<jdstrand> maybe I can look at it now while waiting for some long running stuff
<jdstrand> yes, that will work nicely
<jdstrand> cjwatson: so, how does this work with traincon-0?
<cjwatson> jdstrand: well, that's part of why I'm being careful to stage in a PPA
<cjwatson> jdstrand: I don't think perl realistically affects the phone a whole lot as long as it's generally installable, but also, hopefully we'll manage to get a promoted image soon
<jdstrand> cjwatson: I wasn't clear. libapparmor-perl is on the phone, and so is apparmor (of course). so my question is really do you want me to upload to your staging ppa or give you a debdiff, or do something else
<sarnold> libapparmor-perl is on the phone? why? are we the only thing dragging in perl?
<jdstrand> cjwatson: also, do I need to chmod +x the .install file or is that discovered by the shebang?
<jdstrand> sarnold: apparmor depends on it
<jdstrand> sarnold: we removed all the stuff that dragged in a ton of perl deps long ago
<jdstrand> sarnold: (this is due to aa-exec iirc)
<sarnold> jdstrand: yeah, I remmeber being thrilled that apt-get install apparmor-utils no longer drags in 20 megs of perl things, but I can't recall what's left that's in perl
<jdstrand> aa-exec. jj wrote a C version, but we haven't moved to it yet
<sarnold> jdstrand: ouch! man, I had a C aa-exec four or five years back, I thought jj pushed a C version he wrote slightly later..
<jdstrand> it isn't that ouchy. the libapparmor-perl deb is only 27k
<jdstrand> I think 120k unpacked
<sarnold> but perl is 11-18 megs...
<jdstrand> perl is needed on the phone
<jdstrand> (dpkg)
<sarnold> ohh, okay
<jdstrand> yeah, if libapparmor-perl were the last thing keeping perl on the phone, I imagine we'd have a plethora of aa-exec C implementations :)
<sarnold> sorry for the distraction but I was quite wrong on several counts, heh
<jdstrand> cjwatson: I see libtemplate-perl.install is executable, so I'll do the same
<jdstrand> hmm, that may not work right. well, I'll figure it out
<exarkun> is there anything I can do to bring some attention (and hopefully a resolution) to <https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1356931>?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1356931 in mplayer (Ubuntu) "Mplayer & dvdnav - No stream found to handle url" [Undecided,New]
<jdstrand> cjwatson: I tell you what. I have some preliminary apparmor packages for this. I will test them and when I am satisfied, I will upload them to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security-proposed/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages. I will then ping you and you can copy them into your staging ppa or the archive as desired. does that work?
<cjwatson> jdstrand: Oh, right, yeah that last works fine
<jdstrand> cool
<cjwatson> jdstrand: You need to chmod +x and use a 3.0-ish source format, yes
<cjwatson> jdstrand: I'll need to do a without-binaries copy, i.e. rebuild in my PPA
<jdstrand> yeah, the +x did work and we already had 3.0 (quilt)
<cjwatson> sarnold: yeah, perl is Essential: yes, it ain't going :)
<cjwatson> well, perl-base
<cjwatson> getting rid of perl/perl-modules might be helpful, but I have no idea how far away we are from that on the phone
<jdstrand> thanks
<arayaq> Hi! I'm working on bug #1325777, however I've got to a point where I need elementary developers feedback on how to continue, is anyone here?
<ubottu> bug 1325777 in elementary OS "Native Calculator" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1325777
<arayaq> (If not, how can I get an invite to Slack, I don't see aroman around here anymore)
<arayaq> oops
<arayaq> Wrong channel
<dobey> yeah, was going to ask ask in their channel :)
<TJ-> quantal archive /ubuntu/dist/quantal* are missing from both archive.ubuntu.com and old-releases.ubuntu.com
<TJ-> correction: user was trying the URL old-releases.archive.ubuntu.com ... which redirects silently to archive.ubuntu.com
<cjwatson> TJ-: side-effect of the wildcard DNS for non-explicitly-assigned country subdomains
<TJ-> cjwatson: Yeah... confused the heck out of me for a moment until I realised the responses were identical :)
#ubuntu-devel 2014-08-20
<exarkun> is there anything I can do to bring some attention (and hopefully a resolution) to <https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1356931>?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1356931 in mplayer (Ubuntu) "Mplayer & dvdnav - No stream found to handle url" [Undecided,New]
<Logan_> siretart: ^
<Logan_> you closed the other one
<jdstrand> cjwatson: fyi, uploaded 2.8.96~2541-0ubuntu3.1 to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security-proposed/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages just now. I used ubuntu3.1 to avoid colliding with your no change build in the ppa
<siretart> Logan_: oh boy, that was over 4 years ago
<Logan_> siretart: why did you only add dvdnav support to mplayer in Debian?
<Logan_> nvm
<Logan_> exarkun: mplayer was removed from Debian, so it's a bit of a moot point
<hallyn> jdstrand: d'oh.  a reboot did *not* bring the vm images back?
<jdstrand> hallyn: no
<jdstrand> I had to regenerate them all
<ScottK> jtaylor: Not sure if you got an answer somewhere in the backscroll. ...  The SRU team has some latitude in that case. No reason to do extra work to avoid a version bump if it doesn't cause to much extraneous noise.
<siretart> exarkun: doesn't mpv work for you?
<mwhudson> is there a way to have a debian patch add a binary file?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> cjwatson, slangasek: new util-linux uploaded with putting back hwclock.sh and the initscripts dependency (and some other cleanup)
<dholbach> good morning
<Tribaal> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi Tribaal
<LocutusOfBorg1> hi dholbach :)
<LocutusOfBorg1> quick question, does grep-excuses works for ubuntu?
<dholbach> I don't know - I haven't used it yet
<LocutusOfBorg1> I'm trying to help here https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/08/msg00705.html
<Saviq> jibel, hey, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1359065/comments/2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1359065 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Cannot place an emergency call when device and SIM are locked" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<jibel> Saviq, I closed it. It was a one time failure, I couldn't start the dialer from the passcode dialog and thought it was because the SIM was locked.
<bipul_> Hello, I am getting this error messages "bzr: ERROR: unknown command "dh-make", when i am trying to run this command in my terminal bzr dh-make hello-2.7 hello-2.7.tar.gz
<Laney> pitti: argh, this is a polkit auth failing in the test environment
<pitti> Laney: "this" -> colord?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> how does pk work out if you're "Active" or not?
<davmor2> Laney: magic, it's always magic
<Laney> davmor2: this is magic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyybVarOurw
<tinoco> back
<davmor2> Laney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm0EcpCkCi8 more like this
<Laney> pitti: huh, maybe not - the test in utopic release is just skipped
<Laney> new dbus actually fixes bus activation of colord which exposes some bugs
<Laney> ha!
<Laney> pitti: so pk ResultActive checks seem to not work inside these VMs
<pitti> Laney: right, there is no active logind session
<doko> pitti, so what about overriding the bzr test results? or do you know somebody working on these?
<pitti> doko: yes, I think overriding them is fine; I think vila looks into bzr (but also only as a side project)
<doko> pitti, is he aware of these?
<pitti> doko: I pinged him the other day, but I believe he's on holidays ATM
<pitti> I can tell him again once he's back
<doko> Laney, ^^^do you have ubuntu-release powers?
<pitti> Laney: btw, working on the udisks2 failure
<Laney> doko: in a bit, looking at colord atm
<cjwatson> jdstrand: thanks!  copied
<cjwatson> mwhudson: not as such, but maybe debian/source/include-binaries in the 3.0 (quilt) format will help you (see dpkg-source(1))
<mwhudson> cjwatson: ah probably
<mwhudson> for bonus points i want to do this to gcc, the packaging of which basically completely confuses me
<mwhudson> ah well, i guess i can always just bug doko endlessly
<exarkun> siretart: It doesn't.
<exarkun> siretart: I have an unpleasant combination of requirements.  Neither mpv nor mplayer2 is actually capable of the video playback, only mplayer is.
<tinoco> back
 * mwhudson rages at patch
<exarkun> Oh, mplayer was removed from Debian?  Great... I'm screwed I guess.
<mlankhorst> still see 3:1.1.1+20140703+svn37232-dmo1 in sid..
<exarkun> I wonder what Logan_ meant, then.
<doko> apw, ogasawara: just fyi, the oprofile 1.0.0 release dropped the opcontrol binary
<apw> doko, hmmm ok
<doko> apw, if you need, I think the best thing would be to look at the diffs between the prerelease and the release candidate, and add this as a patch again. but it's not supported anymore upstream
<exarkun> mlankhorst: Any ideas?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/+bug/542268/comments/10
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 542268 in mplayer (Debian) "Mplayer & dvdnav - No stream found to handle url" [Unknown,Fix released]
<apw> doko, not sure if we care or not, have put it on my list for poking
 * mlankhorst is not a mplayer dev
<exarkun> I wonder why Logan_ thinks it was removed and you think it wasn't.
<exarkun> Hm no, it doesn't look like it's in sid to me.
<exarkun> https://packages.debian.org/sid/mplayer - virtual package provided by mplayer2.
<tkamppeter> I have submitted a MIR for the "brlaser" printer driver package (bug 1359137). I would like to get it in before FF. The package is super simple and small. Could this be done? I have already posted on #ubuntu-release but did not get any answer.
<ubottu> bug 1359137 in brlaser (Ubuntu) "[MIR] brlaser" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359137
<mlankhorst> weird, still works for me, but i guess it's deleted in the archive
<mlankhorst> maybe my mirror's old
<cjwatson> mlankhorst: very old, or else you're using <=trusty
<mlankhorst> no, was testing in a sid chroot
<ochosi> hi cjwatson, would you be the right person to ask about a tasksel update so that xubuntu-core would show up there?
<ochosi> (i think Unit193 might have gotten in touch with you about this previously)
<doko> mlankhorst, will you upload xorg-server 1.16 before the ff?
<cjwatson> ochosi: oh yeah, will try to get that done today
<cjwatson> sorry for the delay
<ochosi> cjwatson: no problem! we figured people are on holidays during the summer (and rightfully so) ;)
<ochosi> and thanks!
<mlankhorst> doko: would love to, but still waiting on fglrx, can't keep xorg-server in -proposed that long and people seem to want me to block on fglrx.. :/
<doko> bah
<siretart> exarkun: what are your requirements?
<exarkun> siretart: Software-only playback on an AD2550R/U3S3 (no xv support)
<exarkun> in mplayer, sdl/x11 can do it.  in mplayer2 and mpv, sdl chooses the opengl backend instead (which miserably fails).
<siretart> strange low-power hardware without proper driver support. I see
<exarkun> siretart: is that "I see, I'm thinking more about how that case might be supported" or "I see, I'm dismissing this issue as too obscure to be worth thinking about"? :)
<cjwatson> doko: Mind if I merge rrdtool as part of my Perl 5.20 transition PPA?
<doko> cjwatson, sure, one package less for me
<cjwatson> :)
<jdstrand> cjwatson: np. fyi, we are trying to do a landing of apparmor this week. in case the timing is such that our will yours, I've merged those perl changes into our stuff
<jdstrand> s/will/will precede/
<ogra_> jdstrand, FYi aptdaemon isnt seeded in touch ... will be a bit harder to get the package install stuff working on the phone :(
<Riddell> RoozbehShafiee: KDE fans always welcome in #kubuntu-devel :)
 * ogra_ is banging his head against that since last evening ... 
<cjwatson> jdstrand: ok
<jdstrand> cjwatson: I'm quite sure you'll beat us, but just fyi
<siretart> cjwatson: I'm staging a libav11 test rebuild in https://launchpad.net/~motumedia/+archive/ubuntu/libav11. feel free to sync libav from experimental whenever seems fit to you. it's my birthday today, but I'll resume working on this tomorrow.
<siretart> off to work now, cu tonight
<cjwatson> ok, and happy birthday :)
<cjwatson> OMG GCC + KDE + Perl 5.20, no builds for me any time soon
<siretart> thanks
<cjwatson> siretart: oh, well done, you managed to cause a queue on the PPA builders :)
<cjwatson> (not a criticism, it's just rare that people manage that since we switched to scalingstack)
<doko> well, looks more like Riddell than siretart
<Laney> PPA not distro
<exarkun> siretart: A "no, I don't care about that issue, good luck figuring it out on your own" at least would have been nice, instead of leaving me hanging.
<exarkun> Happy birthday.
<cjwatson> doko: Yeah, I should've said "virtualised builders"
<cjwatson> for clarity
<Riddell> what's scalingstack?
<cjwatson> the new openstack-based infrastructure for the virtualised builders
<cjwatson> we've managed to decommission something like 4.5 racks
<Riddell> is that an internal cloud system or external?
<cjwatson> so there are currently 36 builder guests running on 3 compute nodes, which don't fall over all the time any more and hardly ever queue
<cjwatson> internal
<cjwatson> if by external you mean "on a public cloud host"
<Riddell> yeah I did
<cjwatson> we'll be folding in chindi/furud/wani from the old Xen-based system soonish, I'm told, which should bring us up to 72 guests
<cjwatson> and hopefully eventually will be able to plug in non-x86 hardware, and eventually eventually convert all the builders to run on scalingstack rather than having real hw builders
<Riddell> sounds impressive
<cjwatson> with any luck it'll eventually be possible to erase the non-virt/virt distinction
<cjwatson> but for now the saving on electricity bills and frustration should help :)
<cjwatson> infinity: were you planning to bump glibc to assume a post-hardy kernel before FF?
<LocutusOfBorg1> do doko do you have any pointer for me? thanks ;)
 * doko throws a dangling pointer
<doko> Laney, bzr ping
<LocutusOfBorg1> so I'll try my best to reproduce and fill a bug report
<LocutusOfBorg1> I don't want to make you upset as you are when people fill useless bug reports, this is why I would like to know something in detail for a good bug report (already reading the docs)
<doko> LocutusOfBorg1, reporting ICEs is not useless
<doko> unless you don't include the preprocessed source
<LocutusOfBorg1> yes, but reporting a build log without useful informations is, right?
<LocutusOfBorg1> so just the preprocessed source? of the failing file, right?
<LocutusOfBorg1> because the package is over 200MB, and the build takes a lot of space
<cjwatson> LocutusOfBorg1: /usr/share/doc/gcc/README.Bugs
<LocutusOfBorg1> yes, already reading this
<LocutusOfBorg1> cjwatson, no mention of ICE there
<LocutusOfBorg1> this is why I'm wondering if there is something "more" that can be useful :)
<pitti> wgrant: would it be possible to stop the utopic langpack cron job (if necessary), and do a manual run on request, i. e. as soon as we land the set of rebuilds?
<wgrant> pitti: That's doable as long as it's rare :)
<pitti> wgrant: yeah, it's just for the next utopic full export; I'd like to do that as soon as I'm able to squeeze through these rebuilds (takes awfully long due to the CI train procedure :/), but once it's done we don't want to keep the phone untranslated longer than necessary
<pitti> wgrant: and, FWIW, crazy hours!
<pitti> wgrant: (I fully expected you to answer in a few hours only)
<Laney> doko: I already did it
<doko> Laney, ahh, libaunit as well (asked stgraber about it). same as libncursesada. package is already removed from -release
<wgrant> pitti: It's only midnight!
<infinity> cjwatson: Yes.
<infinity> cjwatson: I'm not sure that's a "feature" that needs freezing, per se, I'd happily do it anywhere up to a month before release (basically, enough buffer to revert if it regresses, but I can't see how or why it will).
<infinity> cjwatson: Plus, it's been set to 2.6.32 in Debian for ages with no complaint, so if it somehow explodes for us, that would be curious.
<infinity> cjwatson: Anyhow, I'll do a merge and twiddle before Debconf.
<cjwatson> Joyous
<cjwatson> wgrant: I've fixed derive-distribution to do removals first if it needs to, not that I can test it
<RoozbehShafiee> Riddell: thanks. sure ;)
<pitti> Riddell: whoa, uninstallbility failure galore :(
<Riddell> uh oh
<Riddell> que passe?
<pitti> Riddell: I'll re-run all those autopkgtests in a bit when the builds settled down
<pitti> Riddell: two metric tons of k* packages failed their autopkgtests on amd64 as their deps are uninstallable in -proposed
<pitti> I figure some binNEW, or publisher lag or something
<Riddell> no binNew but there will be plenty of bits still compiling or dep-waiting until other bits compile
<Riddell> also kde4libs failed on arm because gcc 4.7 isn't happy and I don't have an easy test machine to check if we still need gcc 4.7
<tinoco> back
<shadeslayer> any perl hackers around? I need a bit of help understanding what the qw at the end means : use Debian::Debhelper::Dh_Lib qw(error);
<cjwatson> man perlop
<cjwatson> "Evaluates to a list of the words extracted out of STRING, using embedded whitespace as the word delimiters."
<shadeslayer> jebus, all I want to do is call dpkg_architecture_value('DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH')
<cjwatson> the whole thing means "import just this symbol"
<shadeslayer> aha
<shadeslayer> that makes more sense now
<cjwatson> So you want   use Debian::Debhelper::Dh_Lib qw(error dpkg_architecture_value);
<cjwatson> or similar
<shadeslayer> ack
<shadeslayer> thx cjwatson
<cjwatson> np
 * Riddell out
<slangasek> pitti: util-linux - yay
<slangasek> pitti: btw, you know you're not marked as an uploader of systemd-shim, right? :)
<pitti> slangasek: yeah, seems to be well-behaved now
<Laney> salvaging
<pitti> slangasek: oh, err, oops -- I guess I got carried away by collab-maint, and having done some previous uploads
<pitti> slangasek: sorry if I stepped on your toe!
<slangasek> pitti: as long as you committed it all to git, I'm ok - but as others have been quick to remind /me/ in the past, collab-maint doesn't mean free-for-all :-)
<pitti> slangasek: its bzr, but yes, I committed everything there and then bzr bd'ed
<slangasek> right
<roadmr> hello folks, has anyone seen this (corrupted video) when booting utopic under virtualbox? http://people.canonical.com/~roadmr/utopic-vbox.png
<stokachu> barry, ping
<barry> stokachu: pong
<stokachu> barry, hey i sent you a PM :D
<barry> yeah, my irc notifications seem broken atm :/
<stokachu> barry, was seeing what we could do to get some traction on https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=749943
<ubottu> Debian bug 749943 in python-websocket "python-websocket: python3 support available" [Normal,Open]
<barry> stokachu: i'll take a look
<stokachu> barry, thanks man
<barry> stokachu: it'll have to clear debian new of course
<tkamppeter> mterry, hi
<mterry> tkamppeter, hello!
<tkamppeter> mterry, what do you mean with a "team
<tkamppeter> bug subscriber for Ubuntu bugs"? Who should I subscribe to this bug?
<mterry> tkamppeter, what team is going to look after it in Ubuntu?  (just you?)
<mterry> tkamppeter, maybe Desktop team?
<tkamppeter> mterry, it is just me, and ubuntu-printing.
<mterry> tkamppeter, so maybe ubuntu-printikng
<tkamppeter> So now I see, subscribe to the package, not to the bug.
<mterry> tkamppeter, right
<tkamppeter> mterry, done.
<tkamppeter> mterry, so next step is to report a bug on ubuntu-meta to add printer-driver-brlaser to Recommends: Or can you quickly do this?
<mterry> tkamppeter, I'm a bit busy right now
<mterry> sorry
<tkamppeter> mterry, can you approve the MIR now?
<mterry> tkamppeter, done!
<tkamppeter> mterry, thank you. Updated bug 1355136. Tell me whether I have to do something else still.
<ubottu> bug 1355136 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Add recommends printer-driver-brlaser package in -desktop installations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1355136
<mterry> tkamppeter, seems sufficient, sure
<tkamppeter> Anyone around who is working on the seeds (ubuntu-meta, ...)? I would like to get printer-driver-brlaser seeded, see bug 1355136 and bug 1359137.
<ubottu> bug 1355136 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Add recommends printer-driver-brlaser package in -desktop installations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1355136
<ubottu> bug 1359137 in brlaser (Ubuntu) "[MIR] brlaser" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359137
<doko> pitti, jibel: please have a look at the failed autopkg tests triggered by gcc-4.9. these seem to be machine issues
<smoser> cjwatson, is there somewhere hwere i could look at d-i's choosing the default swap size ?
<shadeslayer> smoser: seed files probably
<smoser> seed files ?
<smoser> i woudlhave thought it does some logic based on available
<cjwatson> smoser: it's basically all in partman-auto
<smoser> ok. thanks.
<infinity> smoser: Like many other parts of partman-auto, I'm going to assume the algorithm is just plain wrong for modern systems.  But this is also why one can specify manually.
<smoser> well, thats fine. but i have to come up with some algorithm.
<infinity> (It's actually really hard to guess anymore what "right" is... swapless systems are very common, but then, so are systems where you expect load profiles that will dig you 128G of pages in the hole).
<smoser> and had nothing better than that.
<smoser> and same case there for curtin. it will be default and often wrong.
<infinity> Ahh, you're asking so you can make curtin match partman, and just point at us when the defaults suck? :)
<cjwatson> Right now it's between 100% and 200% of your available RAM; the complicated bit of the algorithm is deciding how to distribute free space between that and the other partitions, which is what the second field in each recipe stanza is for, but beyond that I've never bothered to learn exactly how it works.
<cjwatson> partman-auto/recipes/atomic
<cjwatson> Most of the actual work is done in partman-auto/perform_recipe, and expand_scheme in partman-auto/lib/recipes.sh is the thing that does the distribution
<infinity> It gets more interesting when 100% ram is >> 25% disk or something, then it shrinks swap to the point where it's pointless (instead of just disabling it).
<cjwatson> Fortunately it basically hasn't had to change much in several years so I have been able to get away with ignoring the implementation
<infinity> I've had some hilariously small partman-generated swap partitions on systems with 128G of RAM but 50G of disk.
<infinity> (Which, I admit, is a weird configuration)
<cjwatson> I'm actually a bit surprised that that didn't make partman just say the recipe didn't fit
<infinity> Oh, that specific case might have just not fit, I think I've run into that once too.
<infinity> But I've had cases where the swap created was just so small as to be useless, and we probably should revisit those just defaulting to swapless.
<infinity> I guess I'd have to wrap my head around the current algo.  Maybe smoser can do that for us. :P
<tvoss> cjwatson, I was wondering why .framework files are not formatted in json. any deeper reason for that?
<cjwatson> tvoss: not particularly, it was convenient the way it was
<tvoss> cjwatson, I would argue for the sake of consistency :)
<cjwatson> I generally prefer deb822 for human-edited key/value files.  The only reason we did json for click manifests was that we were expecting that to be particularly familiar to the target market, and we expected to possibly need more structure
<cjwatson> I would argue why are we arguing :)
<cjwatson> It doesn't seem worth more than five seconds' thought
<cjwatson> They're not changed often or anything
<cjwatson> Also, it was consistent with the hook declaration format
<cjwatson> (In fact, uses the same code paths internally)
<cjwatson> Anyway, it's very little code either way, ~50 lines to parse deb822, while json uses a library but is more effort to dig through the resulting structure and handle special cases, so there's no compelling reason to bother changing now
<cjwatson> Actually more like ~30 lines, I was counting a block comment and other boilerplate
 * ari-tczew is taking care of sponsoring overview before FF
<Noskcaj> cjwatson, Were you going to merge gucharmap this cycle? It seems to be just build system and translation fixes
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: feel free if you want to; I'm not going to
<Noskcaj> ok. Should i be using the ~ubuntu-desktop branch? It seems neglected
<nik90> stgraber: ping
<Noskcaj> atlas-cpp, mercator, and wfmath have just had a series of NMUs to make them build. Could someone please sync them?
<jtaylor> looking
<Noskcaj> I'm not sure if wfmath will need a merge, crimsun had done some fixes for it
<jtaylor> seems the symbol file is removed so sync should work
<jtaylor> though it needs a mini transition
<jtaylor> and I idiot already synced one of them ._.
<barry> stokachu: easy peasy.  i'm building for upload into debian now.  whenever it clears new, it'll need a merge for ubuntu
<jtaylor> whens the next unapproved trusty sweep?
<jtaylor> a package is sitting in there for two weeks already :(
<jtaylor> meh ppc64  still has issues, different thistime
<jtaylor> probably needs a reconf
<jtaylor> hm it is, is our autotools not working for arm64?
<jtaylor> Invalid configuration `aarch64-linux-gnu': machine `aarch64' not recognized
<stgraber> nik90: pong (on very very bad wifi though)
<nik90> stgraber: hey I was directed to your awesome articles on lxc by sergiusens. I was wondering if you had experience running Qtcreator on LXC.
<nik90> stgraber: I just learnt about LXC today, so I will give it a shot later, but figured should ask if it requires any special config like skype or google chrome
<nik90> stgraber: also what time is best to contact you about this..I am pretty sure I am hit some blockers since I am quite new to this
<stgraber> nik90: since it's Qt, I'd expect it'll need the same env variable as Skype does
<nik90> stgraber: ok. I am looking forward to using LXC for developing apps for ubuntu touch. Atm I am using a virtual VM but it is painful too heavy and slow
<stgraber> nik90: I'm usually around on the US/Canada eastern timezone, though this week I'm down in Chicago for a conference and wifi sucks (to say the least), so I've basically been offline 90% of the time today...
<stgraber> nik90: QT_X11_NO_MITSHM=1 is the main env variable you need for Qt AFAIK and maybe it's not actually needed, very likely varies between version of Qt
<nik90> stgraber: ack. Will give it a try to see how it goes later. thnx
<Big_Mac> Hello
<Big_Mac> Anyone there?
<Big_Mac> :(
#ubuntu-devel 2014-08-21
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: gucharmap branch> I'm afraid I have no idea
<cjwatson> jtaylor: that means your autoreconf isn't sufficient.  Note that there are configurations where autoreconf doesn't update config.{guess,sub} and you need to update them separately - see spectemu for the first example of doing that that comes to mind
<cjwatson> jtaylor: or indeed openssh
<cjwatson> Riddell: if you have a test package for kde4libs/armhf then I can try it on a porter box
<cjwatson> doko_: I stole your hfsutils merge to help unblock merges.u.c
<cjwatson> Riddell: Looks like kde-baseapps 4:4.14.0-whatever didn't get uploaded?  Looking at the ark dep-wait
<sarnex> hi. i'm trying to pull the latest wine source from the ubuntu wine ppa, apply one patch, and uploaded the patched version to my own PPA. every time I try it, the one of my PPA does not contain my patch. how can i fix this?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> doko_: yes, will do; current autopkgtest machines are annoying, they are heavily overloaded with other bits and the qemus keep timing out :(
<pitti> ok, tests work better again, I cleaned up some old stale processes on those; /dev/shm was full or almost full on these
<pitti> doko_: so for gcc-4.9, the only package which fails but isn't forced is kde-runtime, which is still uninstallable on i386 (some problem with phonon); so I suppose you might want to ask the release team to override that, too?
<pitti> ScottK: ^
<ScottK> pitti: Looks like it's caught up in the VLC transition.
<pitti> ScottK: right; that's fine in -proposed, but I suppose britney needs some hinting to not block gcc on it
<ScottK> It'd pass the test (which is what britney appears to block on) if phonon-backend-vlc were installable in proposed.
<ScottK> I could force the test, but why not make it pass instead.
<pitti> even better :)
<ScottK> Test build going now.
<ScottK> pitti: I just uploaded phonon-backend-vlc 0.7.80-0ubuntu2.  Once it's built/published on the relevant archs, would you please requeue kde-runtime for retesting.
<pitti> ScottK: my pleasure, thanks for fixing!
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Off to bed for me then.
<dholbach> good morning
<highvolt1ge> o/
<Ozzyboshi> hello chat i want to fork an existing project licensed under gpl3, do you know if i am forced to license my forked project on the same license?
<pitti> Ozzyboshi: yes, you can't change the license without permission of all current copyright holders
<Ozzyboshi> pitti, ok so gpl2+ for example is not allowed because the main project is gpl3 right?
<pitti> Ozzyboshi: correct; the other way around would work
<Ozzyboshi> pitti, thank you a lot
<Unit193> http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/c/cryptsetup/unstable_changelog FWIW, Debian added a lot of the Ubuntu delta for cryptsetup.  Might be handy to review the systemd/systemd-shim support and merge?
<doko> Riddell, I would appreciate it if you could check for work arounds which are not necessary anymore, when uploading new KDE packages, e.g. kde4libs
<Riddell> doko: I know therer's a failure on arm but I need to faff around to set up my arm machine again to check if that gcc-4.7 workaround is still needed
<doko> Riddell, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4libs/4:4.14.0-0ubuntu2/+build/6286729
<doko> now needs an update for the symbols files
<Riddell> doko: ah hah, thanks.  although it'll probably still need to be built locally else it'll need uploads for every library in that package
<doko> Riddell, currently doing that. but please check the other packages for old GCC usage and other workrounds
<Riddell> thanks doko
<Riddell> doko: now for a challenge, smokeqt is broken, no change in the code since it compiled fine, compiling with older gcc doesn't help, i've no idea on that one
<pitti> doko: gcc-4.9 is "valid candidate" now \o/
<doko> pitti, alreay migrated
<pitti> doko: yeah, just saw the "jenkins fixed" mail for kde4libs
<TJ-> Riddell: The bug is that in QT 5 QDir::operator=() has two overloads, but the code doesn't make clear which one is required. In QT 4.8 there was only one ::operator=() so there was no ambiguity
<Riddell> TJ-: mm, but smokeqt uses Qt 4
<TJ-> Riddell: it does? I saw something that pointed to the QT5 issue, since its been pretty common; let me re-read the build log
<doko> TJ, Riddell: can you check with gcc-snapshot?
 * Riddell tries
<Riddell> doko: I just install gcc-snapshot and compile as normal with gcc-4.9 ?
<doko> no
<doko> PATH=/usr/lib/gcc-snapshot/bin:$PATH, and use gcc and g++. Maybe you need to set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH too
<Riddell> ah gotcha
<Riddell> doko: nope, no change
<doko> Riddell, ok, and 4.8?
 * Riddell tries again
<Riddell> doko: much the same, http://paste.kde.org/ptikq0thn (snapshot) http://paste.kde.org/pwcqhqtnu (4.9) http://paste.kde.org/pxkjlsi9i (4.8)
<doko> Riddell, interesting
<LocutusOfBorg1> sorry what is missing for the wx2.8 migration?
<cjwatson> ScottK: Thanks for phonon-backend-vlc.  I identified that last night, but I had to fix vlc/powerpc first and then had to sleep.
<doko> Riddell, my guess is that something in the build dependencies (c++ headers) changed
<cjwatson> doko: Can I steal your graphicsmagick merge?
<cjwatson> Actually, might be a sync, let's see
<cjwatson> doko: Yeah, it's a sync, I'll JFDI
<doko> cjwatson, steal whatever you want ;)
<doko> - (subst)_ZN11KColorUtils3mixERK6QColorS2_{qreal}@Base 4:4.3.4
<doko> + _ZN11KColorUtils3mixERK6QColorS2_f@Base 4:4.14.0-0ubuntu3
<doko> +#MISSING: 4:4.14.0-0ubuntu3# (subst)_ZN11KColorUtils3mixERK6QColorS2_{qreal}@Base 4:4.3.4
<doko> Riddell, ^^^ I don't nderstand why this fails
<zbenjamin> ogra_: did the new adbd land in image r202?
<ogra_> zbenjamin, nope
<Riddell> doko: something to do with qreal not being the same on armhf?
<apachelogger> doko: qreal is double on some architectures and float on others, so qreal != f
<apachelogger> a random guess that is
<zbenjamin> ogra_: strange since i upgraded i cannot connect anymore
<cjwatson> qreal is f on armhf though
<zbenjamin> ogra_: setting a pw did not help
<ogra_> zbenjamin, i wouoldnt land that without a loud and noisy announcement to the ML
<cjwatson> Is it actually being substituted properly?
<ogra_> zbenjamin, adb didnt change in months
<doko> cjwatson, how would I check this?
<cjwatson> not sure
<zbenjamin> ogra_: ok...
<doko> hmm, subst isn't documented?
<zbenjamin> ogra_: hm adbd is even running on the phone, but my adb devices list is always empty
<ogra_> adb kill-server;; adb device
<ogra_> try restarting the local server
<ogra_> or re-plug the cable
<cjwatson> doko: IIRC it's specific to some KDE tools
<zbenjamin> ogra_: did not help, maybe i should reflash my device
<doko> Riddell, how do I enable this subst logic when calling dh_makeshlibs directly?
<Riddell> doko: we use these tools to update symbols files http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/symbolfiles.html
<mlankhorst> ppisati: can you grab the mesa packages from utopic, or is it important this bug is fixed in trusty?
<doko> mlankhorst, updated llvm-3.5 to rc3. can you give it a try on i386 again?
<zbenjamin> ogra_: was there any change on the usb drivers? i had the device until now on a USB hub, that does not seem to work anymore
<mlankhorst> doko: ok
<ogra_> zbenjamin, nope, no kernel related changes in the recent time
<ogra_> (all devices work fine for me with 202 fwiw)
<zbenjamin> ogra_: ok then its on my hardware
<zbenjamin> ogra_: reattaching the whole hub worked, weird all other devices worked fine except the phone
<zbenjamin> ogra_: thx for helping
<ogra_> well, do the other devices draw any power ?
<ogra_> could be a power issue
<zbenjamin> ogra_: now its gone again
<mlankhorst> doko: was there a bug about the llvm error?
<ogra_> since you are constantly charging over that port
<zbenjamin> ogra_: other devices are mouse and keyboard
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> how is the battery level ?
<zbenjamin> ogra_: of the phone? 100%
<doko> mlankhorst, I don't know, at least I didn't file one
<ogra_> (and you should see reasons for the disconnect in syslog)
<mlankhorst> ok
<mlankhorst> well i remember the test, should be fine without bug
<zbenjamin> ogra_: thx, at least now i know where its coming from
<shnatsel> Is making a merge request against lp:ubuntu/lsb the right way to submit a patch to Ubuntu's lsb package? It's an Ubuntu-specific change.
<shnatsel> The package is native, so it's just the changes in a branch and not a quilt patch in debian/patches
<cjwatson> infinity: Can I steal your libpreludedb merge for Perl 5.20?
<cjwatson> xnox: Can I steal your openbabel merge for Perl 5.20?
<Saviq> tvoss, hey, could you give a quick look at my assessment in the comments for bug #1359258
<ubottu> bug 1359258 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/unity8:6:__gnu_cxx::__verbose_terminate_handler:__cxxabiv1::__terminate:std::terminate:__cxxabiv1::__cxa_throw:core::dbus::Bus::remove_match" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359258
<tvoss> Saviq, done
<ScottK> cjwatson: No problem.  Your powerpc FTBFS fix was certainly harder than my no change rebuild.
<cjwatson> ScottK: discovered after the fact that it was already fixed similarly in git, but there you go
<Saviq> tvoss, thanks
<mlankhorst> doko: it no longer fails with the same error, but I'm uncertain if it's really fixed
<junrrein> Hi Ubuntu people, I got a question. Is there a reason that the libglib2.0-bin (2.40) package in Trusty doesn't include the gapplication binary? (http://goo.gl/qYnmtu). It is a part of "official" (gnome) 2.40 release though. And is there a chance of an update to the Trusty package to include it? (I understand why it would not be reasonable)
<junrrein> For reference, the binary is included in the Utopic package (http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=utopic&arch=any&searchon=contents&keywords=gapplication)
<mlankhorst> doko: ok I checked against the working version of my tests, they work correct..
<doko> mlankhorst, nice!
<mlankhorst> so I'll upload llvm 3.5 again, but I'll revert again if it fails for others. :P
<mlankhorst> and add a explicit dependency on >= rc3
<Laney> mlankhorst: can you check the autopkgtest that failed before?
<mlankhorst> Laney: yeah I did, the current version of my failing autopkgtest doesn't work at all either way, but reverting to the working version shows the expected results
<mlankhorst> online_accounts_ui right?
<Laney> ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts
<mlankhorst> yeah
<mlankhorst> that one works for me now(TM)
<Laney> good luck
 * Laney lunch
<hallyn> desrt: hey, just wondering, were you planning to in the next 2-3 weeks look at the systemd-shim AbandonScope/StopScope (or whatever htat one is called) implementation?  It's on my list, and will stay there, but I won't be able to work on it this week or next, so was curious if it was on your list at all.
<desrt> hallyn: i've never even heard of it :)
<hallyn> ok :)
<hallyn> Basically on logout, either it asks for AbandonScope to simply remove the cgroup if empty, or something like StopScope to kill any tasks in the cgroup to force full logout
<hallyn> I'll just leave it on my list then - thx
<Esokrates> slangasek: can you have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/1359689?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1359689 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "cryptsetup password prompt not shown" [Undecided,New]
<roadmr> hello! I tried to boot a 14.10 ISO under virtualbox, I get this corrupted display: http://people.canonical.com/~roadmr/utopic-vbox.png anyone else seen this?
<Esokrates> roadmr: yeah, press host + f7 after that host +f1
<roadmr> Esokrates: awesome, that worked :) thanks
<caribou> I'm working on bug #1321425
<ubottu> bug 1321425 in irqbalance (Ubuntu) "irqbalance affinity_hint subset empty in /var/log/syslog" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1321425
<caribou> this relates to another bug :
<caribou> bug #1328556
<ubottu> bug 1328556 in irqbalance (Ubuntu) "init/irqbalance should support $OPTIONS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1328556
<caribou> the first bug is fixed by setting OPTIONS="--hintpolicy=ignore"
<caribou> but the second bug needs to be fixed for that
<caribou> my question is : should irqbalance be set to OPTIONS="--hintpolicy=ignore" as a default ?
<caribou> or should this be configured by the user ?
<Esokrates> roadmr: this happens as well for other utopic spins (kubuntu), so it has to be some generic component
<roadmr> Esokrates: oh... interesting, I'll keep an eye on it. Not that I really know how to fix it :/
<Esokrates> roadmr: maybe someone should open a bug report for that
<roadmr> Esokrates: oh there's no bug report? I can open one for sure
<Esokrates> roadmr: I do not know any bug report ... maybe there is one?
<roadmr> Esokrates: hmm I looked at bug reports and didn't find any that apply.
<Esokrates> roadmr: any idea which components fault it could be? x? or virtualbox itself? it has to be a combination though, since trusty works find in virtualbox
<roadmr> Esokrates: yes... it would be interesting to try the utopic iso on e.g. kvm
<roadmr> Esokrates: other than that, I'd start by filing the bug on X (or maybe even linux) and triaging from there. It can always be moved to another component/package
<Esokrates> roadmr: yeah with kvm its a little different ... can't tell though since I am 1.) on an old kernel 2.) kvm outdated
<slangasek> Esokrates: saw your bug report come in on this; but this is not the behavior I see in utopic
<slangasek> Esokrates: so I don't have a reproducer for this here currently
<Esokrates> slangasek: that can't be ... how did you set up encryption?
<Esokrates> slangasek: i tested this on various machines using various settings ... always reproducible
<Esokrates> slangasek: even if i use the ubiquity predefined encryption scheme it is like that
<Esokrates> slangasek: would you mind setting up utopic in a vm and see that it's really like that? I spend quite some time to be really sure this is reproducible
<Esokrates> slangasek: I can definitely rule out that it's only me
<slangasek> Esokrates: I have full-disk encryption with cryptsetup and plymouth on my laptop; the root fs is encrypted, so the prompting happens in the initramfs; this worked just fine the last time I rebooted, plymouth has not been changed in utopic since then.  And testing in a VM is not an indicator, VMs have terrible video drivers and there are all kinds of problems with plymouth on them.  Please run 'apport-collect 1359689' fro
<Esokrates> slangasek: I have tested this on real setups ... the virtual machine was only for the screencast
<Esokrates> slangasek: maybe it's not plymouth alone, but other stuff that has been updated since then
<Esokrates> slangasek: I can only assure you that currently it's broken which will annoy and confuse users
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: ping
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/casper/utopic/view/head:/scripts/casper-bottom/25configure_init#L31 < needs to take into account SDDM
<shadeslayer> rm -f /root/etc/rc?.d/[SK]??[gksx]?ddm maybe?
<shadeslayer> or well
<shadeslayer> rm -f /root/etc/rc?.d/[SK]??[gksx]?[d]dm maybe?
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: I would just add another /root/etc/rc?.d/[SK]??sddm argument rather than trying to cram it all into a single wildcard
<shadeslayer> okie
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8107219/
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: lgtm, will upload for you
<shadeslayer> (Y)
<cjwatson> done
<cjwatson> Unit193,ochosi: tasksel finally updated, sorry for the delay
<Esokrates> slangasek: how do we proceed? I think this is an serious issue, I have tested this on all real hardware I have at home and additionally in virtual machines, so I am absolutely sure. would you mind trying it on your own again? (install to some usb disk using that instruction: http://askubuntu.com/questions/293028/how-can-i-install-ubuntu-encrypted-with-luks-with-dual-boot)
<slangasek> Esokrates: I asked you to run apport-collect, and you haven't done so.  I will look at it, but the fact that VMs are useless for plymouth troubleshooting due to VM-specific issues means that I have to be in a position to dedicate a piece of real hardware for testing, so it's going to be a while.
<Esokrates> slangasek: oh sorry, yeah I will do the apport-collect
<slangasek> Esokrates: thanks
<Laney> mlankhorst: I think you typoed the Depends of libgl1-mesa-dri
<Laney> libllvm-3.5 â libllvm3.5
<ochosi> cjwatson: thanks a bunch!
<mlankhorst> oh..
<mlankhorst> probably *looks*
<Laney> mlankhorst: see http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#mesa ...
<mlankhorst> thanks
<Laney> np
<Laney> please could you retry gst-plugins-bad1.0 after this is fixed?
<mlankhorst> iamnotacoredev
<Laney> it's in universe, but yeah, same difference for you IIRC :P
<Laney> might be on from the train anyway
<mlankhorst> uploaded
<cjwatson> Riddell: how desperate are you for KDE to finish building on arm64/powerpc in the next couple of hours?  I really want to start copying in perl 5.20 before I have to finish for the day in preparation for travel tomorrow, but I'm waiting for a bunch of non-virt PPA builds; I could rescore them but KDE is the main thing I'd be queue-jumping
<cjwatson> It looks like there aren't *that* many other builds left, but a lot of them must be long.  I have 151 pending builds out of 166 total in the farm, and the first of mine on arm64 is currently scheduled to start in 4 hours
<cjwatson> oh, maybe that's misleading, actually, I have some due to start in an hour
<cjwatson> so maybe it's not a problem ...
<Esokrates> slangasek: seems like apport-collect attatched useless information
<bdmurray> pitti: it looks like there are still issues with ddebs and main / universe - Failed to fetch http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/c/compiz/compiz-plugins-dbgsym_0.9.11+14.04.20140409-0ubuntu1_i386.ddeb 404  Not Found
<slangasek> Esokrates: mm, yes, this is definitely not the set of information I expect when running apport-collect against a bug on the plymouth package - the plymouth hook is supposed to populate a lot of hardware-related info (proc/cmdline, proc/fb...)
<Esokrates> slangasek: i ran the command you advised me
<bdmurray> pitti: Packages.gz lists it as in main but afaik its in universe
<slangasek> Esokrates: ok.  it appears that the plymouth package in utopic is missing the apport hook, investigating
<Esokrates> slangasek: ok, ping me when you have a solution/alternative
<slangasek> xnox: ^^ you apparently removed the apport hook from the plymouth package, please put it back
<Esokrates> slangasek: any way to add that hook without recompiling stuff?
<slangasek> Esokrates: you can extract it from the source package and drop it into place at /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/source_plymouth.py
<Esokrates> slangasek: which source package?
<slangasek> the plymouth source package
<Esokrates> slangasek: when it is fixed you mean?
<Esokrates> slangasek: or should I use the hook from an older package?
<slangasek> Esokrates: the hook hasn't changed; you asked how to add the hook without recompiling, that's how you do it - it's still in the source package
<Esokrates> slangasek: why is the hook missing then in the binary package?
<Esokrates> slangasek: where is the hook exactly in the source? which file?
<slangasek> Esokrates: I'm sorry, I really don't have time to help with this right now
<Esokrates> slangasek: no problem, can we talk another time about the root problem?
<slangasek> well, probably best to use the bug report for this, as I can't commit to a specific time :)
<Esokrates> slangasek: (I hope in a few days the hook will be fixed by updates, then I will rerun the apport-collect)
<bdmurray> Esokrates: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/plymouth/trusty/view/head:/debian/libplymouth2.apport that's the code in the hook
<bdmurray> Esokrates: so just download it and put it where slangasek said
<Esokrates> bdmurray: thanks a lot
<Esokrates> slangasek, bdmurray: all done now, thanks a lot for your patience
<infinity> cjwatson: Steal away, if yuo didn't already.
<ajalkane> Can anyone give me some indicators where to start off with fixing this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hud/+bug/1165420 (Unable to access indicators from HUD)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1165420 in hud (Ubuntu) "Unable to access indicators from HUD" [High,Confirmed]
<Unit193> cjwatson: Great!  Thank you very much.
<xnox> slangasek: yes i have, please explain why is it in the library package?
<xnox> slangasek: it cause uninstallability and all buildd chroots broke, cause libplymouthN conflicted with libplymouthN+1 yet both are needed to be installed during rebuild / binNMUs.
<xnox> slangasek: is it ok to place the hook in "plymouth" package rather than "libplymouthN+1" ?
<infinity> xnox: Apport hooks in library packages (unless ABI versioned) definitely seems like a mistake.
<infinity> Though, ABI versioning it would fix that mistake just as well as moving it to the plymouth package.
<xnox> infinity: well the hook was "source_plymouth" or some such, and thus covers all binaries coming from src:plymouth, not just libplymouthN
<xnox> infinity: i could just move it into the apport package =)
<infinity> Ick.
<xnox> or make them .deb metadata =)))
<infinity> xnox: Which is effectively versioning it with the package name.
<infinity> xnox: If you just install it with the library package name, that fixes the conflict.  Why complicate things?
<xnox> doesn't cover everything that the hook used to do.
<infinity> Oh, you mean apport chooses what to trigger for based on the filename?
<xnox> e.g. $ ubuntu-bug plymouth, used to collect all plymouth data from that hook.
<infinity> That's unclever.
<xnox> yes.
<infinity> In that case, though, I guess moving it to the plymouth binary is the least of current evils.
<xnox> if it's named source_$srcname.py, it's triggered for all binaries from $srcname.
<labsin> I'm having issues with the propertary ATI drivers and i386 apps. FI steam and the ubuntu-emulator
<labsin> I get no HWA
<labsin> It seems to be a problem with the existance of both /usr/lib32/fglrx/libGL.so.1.2 and /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/mesa/libGL.so.1.2.0
<labsin> the first is from fglrx-updates and the second is from libgl1-mesa-glx:i386
<labsin> If I set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to /usr/lib32/fglrx the issue is gone.
<labsin> But wat is a permanent solution. I can't seem to remove  libgl1-mesa-glx:i386
<labsin> And if/where I should post a bug report
<infinity> labsin: Please file a bug on whatever package is providing the fglrx driver (assuming it's from Ubuntu, not upstream), and make tseliot aware of it.
<infinity> labsin: The proprietary driver packages are supposed to do clever/icky things to divert the mesa libGL out of the way, but maybe he missed a case.
<labsin> infinity, ok
<mlankhorst> ooh mesa 10.3-rc1 released..
<tinoco> please, would anyone know arm64 repository location ?
<tinoco> W: Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/trusty-proposed/main/binary-arm64/Packages  404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.91.15 80]
<tinoco> nm, http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/
<tinoco> tks
<mlankhorst> infinity: hey can i get a ffe for mesa 10.3-rc1 for next week? :P
<infinity> mlankhorst: Ask me next week. :P
<mlankhorst> I rather get some testign done first
<infinity> mlankhorst: More seriously, what's upstream timetable for final release and point-releases?  Are we likely to have 10.3.1 by release?
<mlankhorst> yeah
<infinity> mlankhorst: Cause .0 releases from mesa are pretty... Raw.
<mlankhorst> it's imrpvoed a lot lately
<infinity> I'll believe that when I see it.
<infinity> I'd still be more comfy with approving if I know we'll be able to get a .1 or .2 in.
<mlankhorst>  ]
<mlankhorst> yeah I'll take a look, should be fine
<labsin> infinity, filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-prime/+bug/1307466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307466 in nvidia-prime (Ubuntu) "nvidia-prime problems with steam" [Undecided,Invalid]
<labsin> sorry https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer-updates/+bug/1359960
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1359960 in fglrx-installer-updates (Ubuntu) "i386 apps use wrong libGL" [Undecided,New]
<Sarvatt> mesa 10.3 final is september 5th, point releases are every 2 weeks after unless its an emergency and they go out faster, well in time for final freeze
<robert_ancell> mterry, is the "surfaceflinger" seat type in lightdm still used anymore? I'd like to drop if it now
<robert_ancell> not
<mterry> robert_ancell, no it's not
<robert_ancell> ok, it's dead :)
<mterry> rip
#ubuntu-devel 2014-08-22
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> infinity, xnox: if you install the hook as "source_plymouth.py" it will apply to any binary package of the "plymouth" source
<pitti> ah right, xnox said that
<pitti> bdmurray: saw your mail, will look and reply
<infinity> pitti: Right, my complaint was exactly that it was keying off filename. ;)
<infinity> pitti: (which is what leads to the bug where you can't have it in a library package)
<infinity> And if the library is the lowest common denominator of your source package stack, that seems the sensible place to have the source-wide hook.
<pitti> right, you can't put a source_ hook into a lib pacakge, but certainly a hook for that lib package
<infinity> Anyhow, I think xnox is just going to move it from libplymouth to plymouth and call it good enough.
<pitti> cjwatson: the perl transition now caused a number of failures due to a new warning "push on reference is experimental" on stderr; is that expected and should the tests be adjusted to ignore this, or should this be fixed (or suppressed)?
<cjwatson> pitti: tests should be fixed not to do that; if they are really sure they want to use that feature then there's a switch available in perl to suppress the warning.  http://search.cpan.org/dist/perl-5.20.0/pod/perldelta.pod#New_Warnings
<slangasek> xnox: it's in the library package because that's the base package that all other packages depend on, so ensures that it's always present.  A simple Replaces: would have sufficed to handle the file conflict (without even a Breaks:)  But if you want to move it from the libplymouth package to the plymouth package, that seems ok
<pitti> cjwatson: oh wow, didn't expect you at that hour :)
<pitti> cjwatson: ah wait, debconf
<cjwatson> travelling today
<slangasek> :)
<infinity> slangasek: Using replaces that way is generally considered wrong, though.
<infinity> slangasek: Since it can lead to missing files (though, I guess in a library ABI bump, the odds of going backwards are slim).
<slangasek> infinity: as the only replaced file here was an apport hook, going backwards doesn't break the package's main functionality anyway
<infinity> slangasek: True.
<dholbach> good morning
<doko> jamespag`, please could you have a look at the mysql-5.5 autopkg test failure? blocks perl (and mysql-5.6 autopkg tests always failed)
<pitti> wgrant: nevermind mangling the utopic langpack cronjob; I did a workaround yesterday for updating the touch langpacks straight out of the upstream trunks
<LocutusOfBorg1> Hi doko do you think debian 727330 can be closed? The package build also on ppc64el and arm64
<ubottu> Debian bug 727330 in src:binutils-msp430 "binutils-msp430: run dh-autoreconf to update config.{sub,guess} and {libtool,aclocal}.m4" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/727330
<LocutusOfBorg1> bdrung, you there?
<LocutusOfBorg1> I would like to merge vlc master-daily (ppa) with the debian git, to fix the FTBFS
<jfi_> Hello, what is the correct way to checkout the utopic branch of a package? bzr branch lp:ubuntu/utopic/<pkg> retrieves the trusty branch.
<geser> jfi_: which package? have you checked if it's listed on http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ having issues?
<jfi_> geser, the pkg that I am trying to checkout (to fix a major bug) is: psensor (https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/psensor/utopic)
<jfi_> geser, the pkg (psensor) is in this list
<geser> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/psensor.html#2014-04-08%2014:18:53.940182
<pitti> doko: libtbfs-perl apparently needs to be rebuilt for new perl? it's uninstallable
<pitti> doko: lintian4python, adequate, and liblingua-en-numbers-ordinate-perl succeed again with fixed adequate
<jfi_> geser, hum, it means that the bzr repository is corrupted for this package and I need to report a bug to get some attention about it?
<pitti> doko: hmm, seems https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=735623 is in the way for libtfbs-perl, as its build-dep pdl fails on powerpc; we might just remove it from powerpc then?
<ubottu> Debian bug 735623 in pdl "pdl: FTBFS on mips, powerpc, s390x, sparc, (ia64): testsuite failures" [Serious,Open]
<geser> jfi_: yes, it's at least out-of-date (which explains why you got the trusty version from the utopic branch). I'm not sure what's the correct process to get this fixed
<Saviq> mardy, hey, I got "Ubuntu One" greyed out in accounts after account removal
<Saviq> mardy, guys in London saw that last week, too, anything I can get you to debug? how can I recover?
<mardy> Saviq: weird, it gets greyed out once there is an U1 account
<mardy> Saviq: can you do "account-console list" and see if there's still an U1 account?
<Saviq> mardy, yeah, ssweeny saw that the account didn't get removed properly
<Saviq> mardy, hmm no, empty
<Saviq> mardy, ah now it's back, but doesn't open...
<mardy> Saviq: how did you make it come back? did you exit from system settings?
<Saviq> mardy, yes
<doko> pitti, now synced pdl, although this won't fix things. I'll check to demote/remove pdl/libtfbs-perl
<Saviq> mardy, it's meant to work via trusted sessions now is it?
<mardy> Saviq: yes
<Saviq> mardy, so ok, the fact that doesn't open seems to be our fault (testing silo)
<mardy> Saviq: so, you click, but nothing happens?
<Saviq> mardy, yeah, looks like a problem in our silo
<pitti> doko: only rdepends of libtfbs-perl is med-bio-dev (only a recommends), so removing that on powerpc seems fine
<Saviq> mardy, and I can't reproduce the greyed-out with another phone...
<jfi_> geser, Thanks for pointing me to the pkg import page. I am going to submit my patch as a debdiff and try to find the best way to report the bzr/lp issue.
<Saviq> mardy, ok, will report back if I see it again, for now, as you were ;)
<doko> pitti, otoh, maybe just lets ignore the test results on powerpc?
<doko> Result: FAIL
<doko> Failed 3/124 test programs. 0/1775 subtests failed.
<pitti> doko: hm, I'd avoid sourceful changes and just remove it from ppc -- who cares..
<pitti> but either way
<pitti> but like that, as soon as it gets fixed in Debian it'll automatically come back
<doko> $ apt-cache rdepends pdl
<doko> pdl
<doko> Reverse Depends:
<doko>   pdl:i386
<doko>   science-viewing
<doko>   science-numericalcomputation
<doko>   science-astronomy
<doko>   libtfbs-perl
<doko>   libpdl-stats-perl
<doko>   libpdl-netcdf-perl
<doko>   libpdl-linearalgebra-perl
<pitti> doko: oh, you mean pdl
<doko>   libpdl-io-matlab-perl
<doko>   libpadre-plugin-pdl-perl
<pitti> I was thinking of libtfbs; pdl is already not available on powerpc, so no need to change anything there
<doko> pitti, ok, done, and libtfbs-perl uploaded
<highvolt1ge> dayangkun:
<pitti> doko: cool, thanks! still looking into orafce, I have a reproducer and filed an upstream bug now (https://github.com/orafce/orafce/issues/15)
<tkamppeter> doko, is printer-driver-brlaser seeded in Utopic now (bug 1355136)?
<ubottu> bug 1355136 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Add recommends printer-driver-brlaser package in -desktop installations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1355136
<pitti> tkamppeter: I thought we had some magic to auto-install printer driver packages?
<tkamppeter> pitti, for  Ubuntu packages of printer drivers?
<tkamppeter> pitti, I see a lot of Recommends: for printer drivers in ubuntu-desktop.
<pitti> tkamppeter: ubuntu or openprinting.org, etc.
<pitti> yes, I know; but that has  always felt like a workaround
<pitti> we install video codecs and other stuff on demand, for printer drivers this would be even more appropriate
<tkamppeter> pitti, there is a mechanism to auto-install drivers via OpenPrinting, but these are LSB packages or PPDs directly from manufacturers.
<pitti> tkamppeter: ah, I thought we had something similar for ubuntu packages
<pitti> probably mixed it up with ubuntu-drivers-common for other hw
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you add printer-driver-brlaser to ubuntu-meta when it is not yet done so (bug 1359137, bug 1355136). Thanks.
<ubottu> bug 1359137 in brlaser (Ubuntu) "[MIR] brlaser" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359137
<ubottu> bug 1355136 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Add recommends printer-driver-brlaser package in -desktop installations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1355136
<pitti> tkamppeter: seeded to platform.utopic desktop-common, so all the metapackages will pick it up on next rebuild
<tkamppeter> pitti, thank you very much.
<Saviq> jodh, hey, could you please help mzanetti with an upstart job based on the file bridge, he's not getting delete or change events, just create
<Saviq> mzanetti, can you give more details â?
<mzanetti> jodh: have this job for a test: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8112758/
<mzanetti> jodh: doing a "start unity8-filewatcher" works fine... but doesn't get executed when doing touch/rm ~/.local/share/applications/foo.desktop
<zyga> mvo_: hey, do you have a moment to look at interesting apt related case?
<zyga> mvo_: https://code.launchpad.net/~roadmr/checkbox/ppppcc-glmark2-es2/+merge/231788
<zyga> mvo_: look at the dependencies there
<zyga> mvo_: is that the right way to handle this?
<jodh> mzanetti: hmm - looks like there might be a problem with globs coupled with tilde expansion. Please can you raise an upstart bug. Meantime, you could use something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/8113277/
<mzanetti> jodh: hey, thanks! yes, I'll try your suggestion and file a bug
<mzanetti> indeed, hardcoding /home/phablet/ makes it work
<mzanetti> I wonder if/how url-dispatcher-update.conf works then
<mvo_> zyga: I need a moment to look into the detail (a bit busy right now due rtm/debconf)
<Saviq> mzanetti, we've had it *not* work from time to time, too
<Saviq> mzanetti, so that could explain it
<kdeuser56> does partman allow reusing partitions somehow?
<mzanetti> Saviq: ok... this should improve the situation: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/update-launcher-on-appdate/+merge/231866
<Saviq> mzanetti, I think James suggested FILE=~/.local/share/applications MATCH=*.desktop
<mzanetti> Saviq: not directly, but I agree worth a try
<Saviq> mzanetti, although manual does not list that as a possibility...
<mzanetti> Saviq: well, let me try. would be better than hardcoding to phablet
<Saviq> mzanetti, you could also try .local/share/applications/*.desktop
<Saviq> mzanetti, ~/ is implicit
<Saviq> mzanetti, ah and it needs to have a trailing slash if it's a dir
<zyga> mvo_: sure, no rush
<mzanetti> Saviq: nope... both not working
<Saviq> mzanetti, :|
<Mirv> mlankhorst: hey there! the SDK team still has a regression with the new LLVM 3.5, so unfortunately the x86 tests are now again failing with LLVM error https://launchpadlibrarian.net/182951835/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-i386.ubuntu-ui-toolkit_1.1.1206%2B14.10.20140822-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<doko> Riddell, ScottK: why aren't you working on the smokeqt ftbfs, but trying to work around it?
<doko> pitti, so just mysql-5.5 is failing ...
<doko> dobey, jamespag`: mysql-5.5 ping
<tvoss> mlankhorst, mind jumping over to #ubuntu-ci-eng
<tvoss> ?
<tvoss> mlankhorst, seems like we have another llvm related issue
<pitti> tvoss: "LLVM ERROR: Do not know how to split the result of this operator!
<pitti> tvoss: by any chance?
<Mirv> tvoss: pitti I just filed bug #1360241
<ubottu> bug 1360241 in mesa (Ubuntu) "[Regression] LLVM error in executing Ubuntu UI Toolkit tests on x86" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1360241
<Mirv> pitti: that exactly
<pitti> ack
<mlankhorst> pitti: again?
<mlankhorst> where this time
<seb128> bah, why was the llvm version change reverted?
<mlankhorst> i moved back to llvm 3.5 because my original testcase worked
<mlankhorst> should I revert again for now? :P
<mlankhorst> doko: ^
<seb128> yes
<seb128> it's friday afternoon, not likely it's going to be resolved properly today
<doko> I'm afk now
<pitti> OOI, why don't we build with gcc like everything else?
<doko> built what?
<pitti> I seriously doubt that some .1% performance difference is noticeable in things like telephony-service or indicators?
<doko> no, it's not using clang, it's the jit
<pitti> doko: the bug that tvoss pointed to (UI toolkit etc.)
<Mirv> pitti: I think it's mesa using LLVM failing on OpenGL tests, not that we use llvm to compile software?
<pitti> or are these like 'test guinea pigs' for a future complete migration to llvm?
<pitti> Mirv: ah, ok; thanks
<mlankhorst> it's llvmpipe that's regressed, but on i386 only.
<mlankhorst> it's the swrast
<Mirv> and on x86 only, but since it's in unit tests UITK fails to build
<mlankhorst> even more specific, isn't it i386 only?
<mlankhorst> never seen an issue on amd64 related to it
<pitti> I've seen it on arm and arm64, too
<mlankhorst> odd, not me
<doko> Mirv, mlankhorst so what about ignoring this test when it is i386 only?
<mlankhorst> afaik it's in arch specific code
<Mirv> bzoltan mentioned he wouldn't like to start selectively going through the tests and disabling them on x86, but sure that's one option
<Mirv> (but bzoltan isn't on this channel)
 * Mirv needs to afk
<doko> anyway, I'm afk now
<mlankhorst> fwiw updating mesa won't help, the problem is in llvm
<doko> we need somebody ro report this ...
<mlankhorst> do we have someone working on llvm?
<doko> should be the desktop team, they are using llvmpipe
<Riddell> doko: I'll be looking at it now
<mlankhorst> fwiw I think I will push the revert for now, i still want 3.5 but they're annoying
<mlankhorst> no need to stall everything while we find a more permanent solution
<doko> sure
<mlankhorst> ok uploaded
<seb128> doko, desktop team is using llvmpipe? where?
<seb128> don't thing we are
<seb128> but we are not looking at llvm for sure
<pitti> . o O { hot potato }
<seb128> indeed ;-)
<seb128> if it's a desktop issue I just vote for staying on 3.4 which works
<seb128> if somebody wants 3.5 they can deal with the update and the issues it creates...
<zbenjamin> ogra_: ping, didn't we have gdbserver on the image by default?
<ogra_> zbenjamin, hmm i thought we seeded it once ... but i cant see it ...
<zbenjamin> ogra_: yeah it seems to be gone
<ogra_> (and we are getting very short on space ... we need to start gatekeeping what goes in soon)
<ogra_> (else i would just re-add it )
<ogra_> (and start dropping debug tools for the final product)
<zbenjamin> ogra_: well for developer expirience it should go in, it would be a bit of a dealbreaker if a developer needs to void hos warranty
<pitti> ubuntu touch images aren't going to be a developer platform anyway
<zbenjamin> ogra_: we would force devs to make the image writeable
<ogra_> we are at 493 of 500MB allowed for the rootfs
<zbenjamin> pitti: why not?
<ogra_> pitti, err
<pitti> it's already way bigger than it should be, and still doesn't even have the basic dev tools
<ogra_> pitti, it should have all debug tools you need for click package development
<zbenjamin> pitti: i don't need gdb or gcc, we need gdbserver
<ogra_> i.e. we have strace
<pitti> well, for development you need quite a bit more than that :) for getting crash reports those are enough, yes
<ogra_> gdbserver and valgrind were added ... i know valgrind was dropped again because it pulled in libc6-dbg
<ogra_> not sure why gdbserver is gone now
<zbenjamin> ogra_: valgrind is not supported by the SDK yet anyway
<ogra_> zbenjamin, and never will be on the image ...
<zbenjamin> pitti: compiling will happen on the host, as well as debug information can be on the host, what else would you need on the phone?
<zbenjamin> ogra_: fine for me ;)
<ogra_> way to big :)
<pitti> zbenjamin: my thought exactly :)
<pitti> zbenjamin: well, this will become more interesting in a converged world when devs will actually develop *on* the phone; but still a bit far out
<pitti> (looking forward to that, though! :) )
<ogra_> pitti, by that time the desktop and phone installs should already be identical ;)
<ogra_> so we will have solved the issue already ;)
<pitti> no more carrying laptops around to family or friends, just plug in phone into their laptop or TV
 * ogra_ just wants a system-image install on his laptop ... 
<ogra_> full release upgrade in 10 min and so on ;)
<ogra_> and no more upgrade breakage possible
<pitti> ogra_: I doubt you'd stay happy for very long with the current images, though :)
<ogra_> pitti, well thats the plan
<pitti> ogra_: (sure, sure -- just Friday trolling)
<ogra_> true for the current qualiity though :)
<pitti> ogra_: no vim, no mutt, no cookies!
<ogra_> we ship vi-runtime
<ogra_> ;)
<ogra_> or vim-runtime
<ogra_> and who needs mutt ... use dekko !
<ogra_> the best since sliced bread ;)
<pitti> ogra_: more seriously, do we actually have an email client? I looked for one the other week and didn't find one
<pitti> (in the store)
<ogra_> yeah, dekko
<ogra_> a fork of trojita
 * pitti installs
<ogra_> the current version has issues with creating a new account though (afaik, i use an old config )
<ogra_> you can find DanChapman (teh dev) in #ubuntu-app-install if you have questions/issues
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> #ubuntu-app-devel
<ogra_> sorry
<ogra_> pitti, soo ... i asked you before but my question always drowned in other discussions we had ... i have that whishlist bug for RZM to add a popup for low diskspace ...
<ogra_> *RTM
<ogra_> is there a backend i could easily use ? (i knwo i asked you in malta. but forgot what the solution was)
<pitti> ogra_: oh the dekstop that's {gnome,ubuntu}-settings-daemon; we don't have that on touch, so I don't think so
<pitti> ogra_: but it's not terribly difficult to call df, I figure
 * pitti checks how g-s-d is doing that, whether there's some clever kernel notification or so
<pitti> ogra_: wow, how big is that? has been downloading for like 4 mins now
<pitti> it comes with all my mails pre-included :)
 * pitti doesn't get that far, no "continue" button after entering password; anyway, something to try later on
<ogra_> pitti, lol, yeah
<ogra_> oh. you could create an account ?
<pitti> ogra_: ah, asked Dan in #u-a-d; thanks for pointing out!
<smoser> hi, server team has 4 packages in New queue for utopic that we'd like to see let in. (python-lxc, openstack-granite, and percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6 and  percona-xtradb-cluster-galera-3.x )
<smoser> anyone able o help us out ?
<pitti> mvo_, cjwatson: FYI, latest click upload mightily regresses its tests
<pitti> (no email notification, as it's a train upload)
<mvo_> pitti: oh? do you have a url? i check it out
<pitti> mvo_: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/utopic-adt-click/29/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/
<mvo_> thanks pitti
<Riddell> doko: I conclude the smokeqt issue is to do with gcc 4.9 as one of the errors goes away when you force using gcc 4.8 (can't just set enviornment variables, I suspect smokegen isn't smart enough) but there's another error I can't work out
<Riddell> doko: see e-mail
 * Elbrus is wondering about the gnustep-gui transition
<Elbrus> I thought it had to be done before the import freeze, but now I see that gnustep-gui is imported into proposed
<Elbrus> reading http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/gnustep-gui.html says no action is taken to rebuild anything after that
<Elbrus> how can the rebuilds of all the dependecies be scheduled?
<Elbrus> cjwatson: could you do this somewhat automated? (in Debian I would be requesting binNMU's but I was told that does not exist (yet) in Ubuntu
<mvo_> pitti: I did a 0.4.31.2 now that should fix the failures (it did for me locally at least :)
<Unit193> Linked to a couple dsc files on LP 992068 and LP 1358770
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992068 in torsocks (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] broken in 12.04 and 12.10: libtorsocks: many symbols not found" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992068
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1358770 in remmina (Ubuntu) "ubuntu utopic: missing dependency to libvncclient.so.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1358770
<Noskcaj> To rebuild a package in trusty, do i just file an SRU as normal or is there a easier way?
<jtaylor> its like a normal sru
<Noskcaj> ok
#ubuntu-devel 2014-08-23
<kdeuser56> shadeslayer
<jtaylor> doko__: has -fno-strict-aliasing disappeared from python2 build flags?
<jtaylor> thats not good, python2 is not strict-aliasing asafe
<jtaylor> python3 is
<jtaylor> python2 builds now have hundreds of aliasing warnings :(
<marvin-hh> Is there anyone in here who thinks closing this bug was sane?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-setup/+bug/38712
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 38712 in apt-setup (Ubuntu) "No feedback when "extracting templates from packages" on a slow machine" [Wishlist,Invalid]
<marvin-hh> I have seen such behaviour -- closing perfectly understandable bug reports -- a million times already. I would like to know a good reason for that practice. Just because you close a ticket, doesn't mean that the underlying problem goes away.
<Novice201y> Hello. How can I check my changes in  source? Do I need to install second Ubuntu on testing machine?
* ari-tczew changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Feature Freeze | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> trusty | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:".
<Noskcaj> Could someone please retry pry? It's tests work fine locally
<Noskcaj> Also, diod
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: I'm just doing a mass give-back of failures in utopic now that it's the weekend and builders are relatively quiet.
<cjwatson> So that'll cover that.
<Noskcaj> thanks
<Noskcaj> cjwatson, Is it possible to for an arch:all package to build on amd64 in ubuntu, or do i have to make it arch:amd64?
<Noskcaj> Package is "infernal", it's amd64 and kfreebsd-amd64 in debian, but ftbfs here because of our arch:all buildd
<cjwatson> Happy day-long build queue.
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: The architecture-independent builder isn't customisable per-package, no.
<cjwatson> Though we have talked about switching it to amd64 for everything.  We'd probably have to do that at a series boundary though.
<Noskcaj> ok. I'll made a patch to make the arch:all part arch:amd64 later today
<cjwatson> That sounds bad.
<cjwatson> That'll mean it isn't even *available* elsewhere.
<cjwatson> Might be better to revert the patch that stopped it working on i386, even though the point about SSE2 is in general somewhat reasonable.
<Noskcaj> cjwatson, ok. Hopefully no one in ubuntu is using it on non-SSE2
<cjwatson> Well, worst case is it carries on breaking for them, right?
<cjwatson> Make sure to make a note in the changelog that this should be reverted when we change the Architecture: all build architecture to amd64 in Ubuntu.
<jtaylor> which package?
<cjwatson> 00:09 <Noskcaj> Package is "infernal", it's amd64 and kfreebsd-amd64 in debian, but ftbfs here because of our arch:all buildd
<jtaylor> how does that get built on an arch:all buildd? the -doc package?
<Noskcaj> yeah
#ubuntu-devel 2014-08-24
<marvin-hh> Can someone explain (with a reference to some piece of text to the man page of apt-get) why apt-get remove should be allowed to *install* packages?
<marvin-hh> I am not asking what the rationale might be to allow this.
<marvin-hh> I am asking, based on the documentation, why it should be allowed for it to do that.
<kdeuser56> pitti: how can I make apport dump the crash data independent from drkonqi? currently drkonqi only invokes apport when I select upload the crash data
<Unit193> Mirv: Hellos.
<Unit193> I suppose LP 992068 isn't a good enough reason for an unseeded sync?  (It can be a sync now as Debian has uploaded it to unstable.)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992068 in torsocks (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] broken in 12.04 and 12.10: libtorsocks: many symbols not found" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992068
<cyphermox> cjwatson: I wonder if the issue with Kirsten's wifi might be related to the version of wpa
<cyphermox> cjwatson: I remember now there are some known issues with it in weird cases; specifically in Trusty; I have a package in my PPA that's available to test and make sure it doesn't break more things than it fixes, but I haven't yet been able to give it enough of a poke on my end to be confident to upload a SRU
#ubuntu-devel 2015-08-17
<Logan> does someone want to do a quick no-change rebuild of a package in main for me? pretty please? :P
<Logan> it's to fix an FTBFS of a package that build-depends on it
<TheMuso> Logan: Sure, whats the package?
<Logan> :D
<Logan> ruby-nokogiri
<Logan> see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ruby-fog-xml/0.1.1-5/+build/7643404
<Logan> the Ruby 2.2 test is failing because it can't import nokogiri/nokogiri.so... because ruby-nokogiri wasn't built against Ruby 2.2
<Logan> and the shared objects are split up by Ruby version in Rubyland
<TheMuso> So with this no-change rebuild, do you want that other package retried once this is published?
<Logan> you can steal this changelog entry that I used for ruby-curb: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ruby-curb/0.8.8-1build1 :)
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<Logan> I can retry it since it's in universe
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<Logan> we should probably have a transition tracker for this - not sure what I'd make the rule be
<TheMuso> I don't usually involve myself in bigger transitions, but happy to take care of this since its a quick rebuild.
<Logan> cheers :)
<Logan> smart move ;P
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Just doing a quick build to make sure it does in fact build, then will upload.
<Logan> did that locally too, but I figured you'd do it again either way :P
<Logan> as a good core dev
<TheMuso> Of course, it may yet fail on an arch we haven't tested it on, but I doubt it.
<Logan> true
<TheMuso> Logan: Ok done.
<Logan> thanks so much!
<TheMuso> You're welcome.
<dholbach> good morning
<alkisg> stgraber: for ubuntu 15.10, what's the best thing to do considering the ltsp-client-core service? We currently ship sysvinit and upstart jobs, should we also ship a systemd service file? Do we remove the upstart job? Can we keep all 3 of them for easier backporting, and have debconf select which one to install?
<darkxst> what is this!?!? https://www.facebook.com/events/1686258078264110/ http://www.ubuntuplanet.org/
<darkxst> can he even do that? steal trademarks, or is ubuntu itself not trademarked?
<sil2100> pitti: ping, hey, you around on IRC? I would like to request a manual test-run of langpack-o-matic for ubuntu-rtm/15.04 :)
<maxb>  http://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/intellectual-property-policy
<sil2100> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: wily open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-vivid | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: sil2100
<darkxst> maxb, I just emailed the links to legal, not like anyone around here is likely to know the answers really!
<sil2100> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: wily open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-vivid | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<popey> Is there a limit on how long a build can take in an (armhf) ppa? A build I started seems to have died, and I don't know why.. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/214631002/buildlog_ubuntu-wily-armhf.libreoffice-vanilla_1%3A5.0.0~rc3.1-1ubuntu1~wily4_BUILDING.txt.gz "dpkg-buildpackage died"
 * dholbach hugs sil2100
<cjwatson> popey: there's an inactivity limit, but that's not what happened here
<cjwatson> popey: your build is at least partly parallelised, so the real error will be buried a bit further up (because it took some running jobs a while to finish after the error)
<popey> ah
<cjwatson> qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - core dumped
<cjwatson> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<cjwatson> checking for snprintf... /Â«PKGBUILDDIRÂ»/external/jfreereport/ExternalProject_jfreereport_libbase.mk:20: recipe for target '/Â«PKGBUILDDIRÂ»/workdir/ExternalProject/jfreereport_libbase/build' failed
<cjwatson> make[2]: *** [/Â«PKGBUILDDIRÂ»/workdir/ExternalProject/jfreereport_libbase/build] Error 139
<cjwatson> make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
<cjwatson> this is probably one that doesn't work under qemu-user-static
<cjwatson> not very surprising for libreoffice
<popey> bum
<popey> is there a way I can build on real hardware (assuming that would be more successful)?
<cjwatson> only if that PPA will never have non-Canonical uploaders
<popey> probably not for _that_ ppa.
<cjwatson> you can create a dedicated PPA with limited uploaders, and ask webops to make it devirtualised and add armhf
<popey> okay, will do, thanks.
<cjwatson> and then copy from that PPA to this one
<popey> got it.
<cjwatson> or you can wait for arm scalingstack to be done
 * sil2100 hugs dholbach back
<sil2100> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: wily open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-vivid | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: sil2100
<dholbach> :)
<sil2100> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: wily open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-vivid | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<roaksoax> ok
<melodie> hi
<melodie> infinity if you are around, I would have two questions related to zram-config in Trusty 14.04.3. first question, is it normal, with the zram-config package installed in the live, once the live installed to hdd zram-config does not start and even, refuses to start? (here is a pastebin : http://pastebin.fr/40804 )
<melodie> the second question will related to the amount of RAM available in the machine (the part in the compcache script located in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks)
<infinity> The compcache script doesn't relate at all to zram-config.
<melodie> hi infinity
<melodie> yes, it's part of the initramfs-tools
<melodie> I just checked with dpkg -S
<infinity> And 'initctl: Unknown job: zram-config' implies there's no job to start.
<melodie> why is that? it's installed so why does it not start?
<infinity> melodie: upstart doens't know it's installed, so something's wrong with your setup, IMO.
<melodie> what do I need to do to investigate?
<infinity> Well, for starters, does /etc/init/zram-config.conf exist?
<melodie> no it doesn't
<infinity> Well, there you go.
<infinity> It should. :P
<melodie> if it's in the package why didn't it land there?
<melodie> (in the live, it does work)
<infinity> melodie: Given that I didn't install your system, I don't know the answer to your question.
<melodie> I see it in the "dpkg -L" output though
<infinity> melodie: Something or something deleted it, I guess.
<melodie> :/
<melodie> anyway this explains why it works again once removed and installed again
<melodie> thank you infinity
<melodie> if you have any idea how I could investigate further, I would like to find out
<infinity> Not really sure, given that I have no idea how you're installing things.
<melodie> it is in a list of packages I install in a chroot before building the iso (with Ubuntu-Builder)
<melodie> the basis used is Ubuntu Mini Remix which contains the bare minimum
<infinity> Right, I don't know that tool at all, so I'd be debugging from scratch.
<melodie> you helped me already, I have a start on which  dig
<melodie> thank you very much
<melodie> about initramfs-tools, I see it's the kernel team which is in charge, and in the file compcache there is a limitation for the amount of ram : it says "if we are in a machine where there is more than 512MB ram, then we don't start zram in the live". but when I tested Lubuntu live, in a machine with 1GB zram was active. where can I get info about how that works?
<infinity> melodie: Like I said, that has NOTHING to do with zram-config.
<infinity> That code should just be torn out of initramfs-tools (or replaced by zram-config) when I find the time.
<infinity> melodie: lubuntu is using zram-config, not the initramfs-tools stuff.
<ogra_> infinity, iirc that code was a hack to make it possible to support 256M installs ... i think our minimal reqs. were bumped since then
<ogra_> (so yeah, just wipe it from the face of the earth)
<melodie> hi ogra_
<melodie> infinity I know lubuntu is using zram-config, yet initramfs-tools are probably installed there too?
<melodie> ogra_ the comment says that "it should not be started if there is more than 512" which I find very strange
<infinity> melodie: Yes, but just ignore that bit.  It's inconsequential.
<infinity> melodie: The comment is commenting what the code *does*.
<melodie> infinity ok
<melodie> I know what comments are for :D
<melodie> very helpful
<infinity> melodie: It only runs compcache stuff on really low ram systems.  It's also, as ogra points out, obsolete.
<ogra_> well, the code might be broken since :)
<tseliot> infinity: what can I do to help get nvidia 352 in wily?
<infinity> tseliot: Buy an AA a coffee?
<melodie> ogra_ in the Openbox version I do, I want zram-config to work on the live and in the install
<ogra_> melodie, then use zram-config
<ogra_> the compcache script in initramfs-tools is completely unrelated
<melodie> ogra_ zram-config is indeed installed in all versions
<melodie> I didn't know it was unrelated
<ogra_> well, fine then :)
<tseliot> infinity: how much coffee would that be? You promised you'd do it. It's been a month now, and I'd like to be able to upload a newer release before I go on holiday :)
<infinity> Not quite a month yet.
<infinity> Close, though. :/
<infinity> I'll find some time today while kernel sprinting.
<melodie> ogra_ not fully fine because "something" makes /etc/init/zram-config.conf disappear between the live session and the install. I need to find what causes that. :/
<infinity> I hope.
<tseliot> infinity: thanks
<ogra_> melodie, yeah, but thats unrelated to the compcache script for sure :)
<melodie> ogra_ I have no idea what it is related to so I am starting to investigate. I have a vbox machine running on the tower now, and I launched the installer. I look into /var/log/installer to see what files are created there. I hope it's the right place?
<ogra_> for live boots there is a casper log somewhere (i forgot where, its years that i looked into that last)
<melodie> ogra_ ok
<cjwatson> pitti,Laney: I'm confused by http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#haskell-hoogle - it says test in progress for armhf, but the link is 404
<melodie> infinity ogra_ I found where my issue was : zram-config.conf was not in the iso of the 64bits version to start with. I am now redoing the iso
<melodie> using infinity's piece of script provided former, to not start daemons in a chroot.
<melodie> in the 32bits version I don't have the issue
<ogra_> but only half the bits !
<ogra_> :)
<melodie> where I am astonished : to fix it in an install, I tried first to reinstall it : but this didn't work
<melodie> I first had to remove it completely and then install it anew
<melodie> how come the simple re-install would not add the missing file?
<melodie> ogra_ yes, half the bits for half sized bus :D
<cjwatson> if it's a conffile, simple reinstall preserves the local change that the conffile is removed - you'd need to pass -o Dpkg::options::=--force-confmiss
<cjwatson> (to apt-get)
<melodie> hello cjwatson
<melodie> just as is?
<melodie> cjwatson and conf file yes, it bears ".conf" as a name extension, while it's really a start file (isn't it strange to have start files having for name and role "conf files" ?)
<cjwatson> conffile is a technical term not relating to the file extension
<cjwatson> but files in /etc that are shipped in .debs are generally conffiles
<melodie> yes?
<cjwatson> and yes, just as is
<melodie> this one is specifically in /etc/init
<cjwatson> I don't care
<melodie> :)
<melodie> ok
<melodie> cjwatson thank you
<cjwatson> np
<cjwatson> pitti,Laney: never mind, seems to have cleared up by itself
#ubuntu-devel 2015-08-18
<ScottK> wgrant: any idea why LP is spamming Debian lists: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/python-modules-team/2015-August/025491.html
<Unit193> Eugene San (eugenesan) seems to have subscribed https://launchpad.net/~python-modules-team
<ScottK> Sigh.
<ahoneybun> anyone know about android-tools-adb package?
<ScottK> wgrant: OK, next question (asking as a DPMT admin), how do I get rights to that user so I can unsubscribe things like that?
<wgrant> ScottK: I've killed the user, let me know if noise continues.
<cyphermox> ahoneybun: what about android-tools-adb?
<davmor2> cyphermox: man so weird you on at this time ;)
<cyphermox> davmor2: I'm in Germany, at DebConf this week, so yeah it's unusual :)
<davmor2> cyphermox: yeah I knew where you were still not used to seeing your nick active this early though ;)
<cyphermox> it messed up my whole schedule, I stay up until 3 am easily, still up early, etc. I understand 3am is already getting quite late for EST :D
 * apw just dist-upgraded on wily and it looks like qt4 is an utter disaster
<ogra_> we still have qt4 in the archive ?
<apw>  libqt4-dbus : Breaks: libqt4-dbus:i386 (!= 4:4.8.6+git64-g5dc8b2b+dfsg-3~ubuntu8) but 4:4.8.6+git64-g5dc8b2b+dfsg-3~ubuntu7 is to be installed
<apw> i still have it on my machine, well half of it
<apw> oh and now install -f wants to remove compiz, great
<apw> as i just got gcc-5 and related transitions i assume its dpkg not coping with the level of change
<apw>  libsigc++-2.0-0v5 : Conflicts: libsigc++-2.0-0c2a but 2.4.1-1 is to be installed
<apw> i suspect strongly there is a dep here for gcc-5 which is not resolved
<apw> oh i see, it is dbus which is broken, and that is breaking the upgrade, dammit
<seb128> apw, what error?
<apw>  dbus depends on libexpat1 (>= 2.0.1); however:
<apw>   Package libexpat1:amd64 is not configured yet.
<apw> dpkg: error processing package dbus (--configure):
<apw>  dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed
<apw> its getting dpkg into a triggers loop and failing even for an install -f
<apw> seb128, ^
<seb128> weird
<apw> when apt says "try install -f (or specify a solution)" any idea how i specify such a solutoin
<apw> i guess i could disable triggers for dbus and hope
<cjwatson> specify a solution> list of package names to install
<cjwatson> probably fully dependency-expanded
<cjwatson> but if a maintainer script is failing, specifying a solution is unlikely to help
<apw> cjwatson, i think the underlying issue is dbus triggers need to run, but dbus is unwilling to run them because a dependancy is broke
<apw> and there seems to be no way out
<apw> iU  libexpat1:amd64
<apw> and indeed it isn't a happy library
<cjwatson> what does 'dpkg --configure libexpat1' do?
<apw> that seemed to complete successfully
<apw> and indeed make install -f happy too ...
<cjwatson> 'dpkg --configure -a' would probably have sorted it out too, that's just a slightly bigger hammer requiring less information
<apw> heh, i'll try that next time, you'd think in that situation it could have figured that out, odd
<cjwatson> dig through apt logs and look for the first point where something failed
<cjwatson> everything else is just consequential nonsense
<apw> will do
<apw> once this thing is bootable again
<apw> as i was mid pretty large dist-upgrade
<apw> dpkg: libpcrecpp0:amd64: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
<apw>  libpcre3-dev:amd64 depends on libpcrecpp0 (= 2:8.35-7ubuntu2); however:
<apw>   Package libpcrecpp0:amd64 is to be removed.
<apw> is the first thing other than happy it said in the first run
<apw> then we install a lot of stuff, and then
<apw> Unpacking systemd-sysv (224-1ubuntu3) over (224-1ubuntu1) ...
<apw> Processing triggers for man-db (2.7.0.2-5) ...
<apw> dpkg: dependency problems prevent processing triggers for dbus:
<apw>  dbus depends on libexpat1 (>= 2.0.1); however:
<apw>   Package libexpat1:amd64 is not configured yet.
<cjwatson> that sort of looks like an apt ordering bug
<cjwatson> assuming that there was no indication that libexpat1 actually failed to configure
<cjwatson> the libpcrecpp0 thing is not a problem
<apw> Preparing to unpack .../libexpat1_2.1.0-7_amd64.deb ...
<apw> De-configuring libexpat1:i386 (2.1.0-6ubuntu1) ...
<apw> Unpacking libexpat1:amd64 (2.1.0-7) over (2.1.0-6ubuntu1) ...
<apw> Preparing to unpack .../libexpat1_2.1.0-7_i386.deb ...
<apw> Unpacking libexpat1:i386 (2.1.0-7) over (2.1.0-6ubuntu1) ...
<apw>  dbus depends on libexpat1 (>= 2.0.1); however:
<apw> seems to not attempt to configure before erroring it is ont configured, so i think you're right
<apw> i'll file this log against apt
<apw> in case it happens to someone else
<apw> cjwatson, and ... as always ... you are a star, thanks
<cjwatson> apw: yw
<apw> bug #1485970
<ubottu> bug 1485970 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt-get dist-upgrade falied with a dbus trigger loop due to an unconfigured library (libexpat1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1485970
<apw> i am sure adam will love it
<mdeslaur> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: wily open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-vivid | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: mdeslaur
<ScottK> wgrant: thanks
<Mirv> chrisccoulson: hey! can you give specifics on how bug #1482346 was fixed on firefox-next and what would eg be needed for mozvoikko, another main extension.
<ubottu> bug 1482346 in ubufox (Ubuntu) " xul-ext-ubufox isn't signed (cannot be loaded on Mozilla Firefox 41.0a2) " [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1482346
<Mirv> and I also wonder a bit if Debian's Iceweasel would require a similar change if it's something within Firefox that has been changed
<chrisccoulson> Mirv, the addon needs to be reviewed and signed by the addons.mozilla.org team. The developer needs to do that though
<Mirv> chrisccoulson: ok, so no changes to Firefox itself? thanks.
<Mirv> chrisccoulson: hmm, so firefox-next does not have ubufox changes, but instead only Firefox updated - something to check/accept the signature was added to make ubufox work, and you signed / got reviewed the ubufox at addons.mozilla.org?
<shadeslayer> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily/pending/wily-core-armhf.manifest < core is totally missing sudo
<shadeslayer> as was 15.04 core : http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/releases/15.04/release/ubuntu-core-15.04-core-armhf.manifest
<seb128> apw, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/1484841 looks like an issue similar to your (just mentioning it since I saw it while looking at recent reports)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1484841 in dbus (Ubuntu) "package dbus 1.8.12-1ubuntu5 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed" [High,Confirmed]
<apw> seb128, that looks very similar indeed
<apw> seb128, i'll tie them togther and offer the OR some options
<seb128> apw, thanks
<apw> seb128, i see that already has 4 "also affects" on it
<apw> seb128, hopefully it is the same and trivial to get them out of.
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> cjwatson, Laney: I enabled armhf for one run yesterday so that the exec nodes can now grind through the 500 tests; but I didn't want to keep it enabled to avoid blocking packages on the armhf lag
<pitti> cjwatson, Laney: once they caught up, I'll enable it permanently and annouce it
<pitti> cjwatson: seems you looked at exactly that time
<cjwatson> ah, ok
<pitti> debci-wily-armhf0
<pitti> \o/
<pitti> it was at 500 yesterday
<pitti> nice
<teward> so, how busy is the archive admins team as of late?  Out of curiosity.
<sil2100> pitti: ping :) Any luck with the langpacks? :)
<pitti> sil2100: was just about to look into that
<sil2100> pitti: the OTA-6 translation export I think happened already so would be great if we could get those updated in the overlay-ppa
<sil2100> A merge with vivid shouldn't be required as the ubuntu-rtm/15.04 has all the translations now
<pitti> sil2100: so you want me to build fresh packs from https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/15.04/+language-packs straight into the overlay PPA?
<sil2100> (I binary-copied the missing ones)
<sil2100> pitti: yes :) If, of course, you're confident it'll work ;p
<sil2100> pitti: in the meantime I'll check if the latest export looks sane
<sil2100> pitti: those look good from what I see :)
<pitti> erk -- http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/data/ubuntu-l10n/ does not yet exist for 15.04
<pitti> and no dpm
 * pitti uses 14.09 and hopes that priorities didn't change too much
<sil2100> Oh, and what is that?
<sil2100> Maybe wily should be used for that?
<pitti> it essentially tells us which templates we want/need in touch, and which aren't important
<pitti> could also do that
<sil2100> Oh, hm, not sure then, but I know we basically dual-landed to both wily and vivid-overlay
<pitti> sil2100: ok, then wily does sound better
<sil2100> pitti: thanks! Fingers crossed o/
<pitti> sil2100: how much of a disaster would it be to upload to the overlay PPA in case we need a second upload?
<pitti> sil2100: I can also upload them to another PPA, but the overall turnaround time would be the same, and it's harder to test
<ahoneybun> cyphermox: we have adb 1.0.31 but to use adb sideload we need 1.0.32
<pitti> sil2100: i. e. should the overlay only get firmly tested ready-to-release stuff, or sohuld I use it for the "first upload" too?
<sil2100> pitti: should be safe... we try to have everything tested there, but we only build rc-proposed images from it so basically we say: 'yeah, stuff can be broken'
<sil2100> So upload, we can revert if needed
<sil2100> I built an image not so long ago so we should be good
<pitti> ack
<pitti> sil2100: just to clarify, these packs should *not* be uploaded to RTM itself, but only the PPA?
<cyphermox> ogra_: ahoneybun:  ^
<pitti> sil2100: (as we did upload to rtm/14.09 directly)
 * ogra_ reads backlog
<cyphermox> ogra_: it's about adb sideload
<ogra_> cyphermox, wont work
<ogra_> ahoneybun, only after someone ported to key auth ...
<ahoneybun> key auth?
<ogra_> our adbd runs completely as phablet user ... no way to sideload anything
<ahoneybun> android-tools-adb has nothing to do with touch..
<ogra_> (you would need a sudo wrapper or some such that installs the package)
<ahoneybun> I'm talking about android
<ogra_> ahoneybun, well, it does, the shipped tools and the adb PC tools come from the same source
<ogra_> someone would need to bump both and make sure all modifications for adbd still work
<ogra_> sadly anyone who could do that was moved out of the phone team
<ahoneybun> one of big reasons I use ubuntu is that the package is easy to install and I don't need the whole Android SDK :(
<ogra_> ahoneybun, understood
<ogra_> but someone would need to forward port the existing stuff first
<ahoneybun> I had to flash android back to the device to copy the file and then flash it
<ahoneybun> darn I understand a bit
<shadeslayer> pitti: whom should I poke about my ubuntu-core issue?
<shadeslayer> ( sudo not landing on ubuntu-core )
<shadeslayer> apparently it's there in the seed
<ogra_> uh, since when ?
<shadeslayer> I'm not sure who's maintaining that / doing foundations these days
<ogra_> sudo is definitely not supposed to be in the normal ubuntu-core
<sil2100> pitti: yes, only to the overlay
<sil2100> pitti: we don't use ubuntu-rtm anymore
<shadeslayer> ogra_: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-core.wily/view/head:/core-libs#L61
<shadeslayer> unless that's a different thing
<shadeslayer> ah wait, no, that's the task, hm, let me find the seed
<ogra_> i think it is
<ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily/current/wily-core-i386.manifest
<shadeslayer> ogra_: yeah
<ogra_> thats the standard ubuntu core ... a tarball based on debootstrap --minbase with just enough extra bits to install packages
<shadeslayer> I was wondering why that's the case?
<shadeslayer> ah I see
<ogra_> thats the definition ...
<ogra_> no users ... just root
<ogra_> so no sudo either
<shadeslayer> right, I was working on a tool that could take that as an rootfs
<ogra_> shadeslayer, infinity used to maintain it in the past ... not sure he still does
<ogra_> (and he is at a conferenc i think, so you might not easily catch him)
<shadeslayer> and without sudo installed, I can't do much :P
<ogra_> you can install sudo ;)
<shadeslayer> ogra_: yeah, but I wanted it included in the default tar :P
<shadeslayer> instead of shipping my own rootfs :P
<ogra_> untar ... chroot ... install what you need on top ... re-tar
<shadeslayer> like I said, out of scope for my tool .. ah well
<pitti> sil2100: ok, had to do some hacks for missing l10n stats and missing 15.04 package maps, but build is running now
<sil2100> pitti: yay! Thanks, let's see how those go o/
<pitti> sil2100: want to get the -pl deb for local testing? seb128 will test the French one
<sil2100> pitti: sure :)
<sil2100> I'm not running rc-proposed on my phone though, but I suppose it should be good in overall
<seb128> I am
<pitti> sil2100: Houston, we have a problem
<pitti> sil2100: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/15.04/+language-packs tarballs are just 8 MBs, and lots of missing files
<seb128> sil2100, we are having issues with using wily for stats :-/
<pitti> sil2100: many of them we probably don't need
<pitti> but some we do
<sil2100> pitti: it's good
<pitti> e. g. we might do without ModemManager or gtk30-properties
<tseliot> pitti: test_system_device_drivers_chroot fails again in u-d-c in my wily chroot. Is it just me? (I'm trying to fix a couple of separate issues)
<pitti> but we do need unity.mo and evolution-data-server-3.12.mo for sure?
<sil2100> pitti: I checked, it only has the templates and translations for the apps we need
<pitti> sil2100: wily-15.04 French debdiff: diffhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/12118211/
<seb128> I think we need e-d-s
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12118215/ -> same for -pl (looks similar)
<sil2100> Ok, then maybe a merge will be required, we might have missed some of those
<sil2100> But wait, how come those aren't there?
<pitti> so do we need unity.mo, or is it unity8.mo?
<sil2100> unity8.mo should be enough
<pitti> sil2100: the e-d-s-3.16 template wasn't approved in wily
<sil2100> Ah, ok
<pitti> oh, there *is* a unity8.mo
<pitti> so hopefully e-d-s is the exceptoin
<pitti> because it has the version number in the name, which is unusual
<sil2100> I made sure to include all the ones we really required, but I might have missed some that weren't obvious for me
<pitti> seb128, sil2100: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/ has the french and Polish rtm 15.04 packs
<sil2100> Some I didn't include as they didn't seem user-visible
<pitti> so maybe you can give these a spin
<pitti> and I manually crowbar in e-d-s
<pitti> which eds version do we need?
<seb128> that's showing an issue with our process though
<seb128> how did 15.04-rtm got populated?
<sil2100> pitti: 3.12.11-0ubuntu1 I think
<sil2100> seb128: it got populated from the packages we have in the overlay-ppa + a few I put manually from vivid
<pitti> I grab that from vivid
<seb128> sil2100, why didn't you get everything which was in the current langpacks?
<pitti> sil2100, seb128: I updated debs on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/ to include e-d-s
<sil2100> I only included the touch specific things, yeah, my bad
<sil2100> I should have copied over everything
<pitti> sil2100: no big deal; we don't really need all those
<sil2100> I wonder why oxide-qt wasn't there though, since we have it in the overlay
<sil2100> Maybe the translations weren't batch copied for that yet?
<pitti> sil2100: need to run out for a bit for group photo; please let me know how they work
 * pitti reworks the upload script in the meantime to go to the overlay
<sil2100> pitti: ok, thanks! Let's wait with the final upload yet tho :)
<pitti> yes, of course
<pitti> sil2100: I won't upload until you say that the manual built ones are okay
<pitti> sil2100: seb is doing the same
<sil2100> And unity-ui-toolkit? I wonder why that's missing, we have UITK in the overlay since AGES
 * sil2100 is a bit worried now
<rbasak> Is it acceptable for a package postinst to link something in /etc to /usr/share/doc/.../examples?
<rbasak> I can't see any problem with that but I've not seen it done that way before.
<dobey> rbasak: would be better to install the example conf to the /etc/ location in the .install file or override_dh_auto_install rule, i think
<rbasak> dobey: makes sense. Then the normal conffile handling would work and the user wouldn't have to mess with it to make it not be readonly.
<tseliot> pitti; ^^^
<seb128> sil2100, pitti, mostly good, but missing uitk is an issue/regression
<sil2100> seb128: yeah... worried about that, will investigate - I didn't forget about that one as I didn't have to, we have UITK in the overlay so it should have been fetched
<sil2100> Checking that out, and looking at the pl translations on my krillin too
<sil2100> Had to upgrade it to rc-proposed, my arale is on stable so I didn't even want to test there
<cjwatson> rbasak: that seems like it would violate https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-docs.html#s12.3 "Packages must not require the existence of any files in /usr/share/doc/ in order to function"
<cjwatson> rbasak: I normally put template configuration in /usr/share/<package>/ instead
<cjwatson> (aside from the readonly thing)
<cjwatson> seb128,sil2100: doesn't seem like an LP issue, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/15.04/+source/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+pots/ubuntu-ui-toolkit exists
<cjwatson> although I have not checked the export tarball
<cjwatson> and there are Packaging records for ubuntu-ui-toolkit, so the share-translations-via-upstream black magic ought to have worked
<cjwatson> certainly looks like there are some translations in the LP view, I can't imagine those were all contributed manually?
<rbasak> cjwatson: ah that's perfect to get back to my submitter, thank you.
<cjwatson> I'm not sure what's going on with oxide-qt; https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/wily/+source/oxide-qt exists but https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/15.04/+source/oxide-qt does not
<sil2100> pitti, cjwatson: from the export contents, I see ubuntu-ui-toolkit.po
<sil2100> So I think it's an langpack-o-matic issue then
<sil2100> cjwatson: maybe it wasn't in the overlay when we were doing the copies?
<sil2100> We sometimes removed it if there was a new version in -security
<cjwatson> ah, could be, it isn't there now
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/stable-phone-overlay/+packages?field.name_filter=oxide-qt&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=
<cjwatson> so not sure why you said above that it's there now
<sil2100> Wait, it's not?
<sil2100> It should be
<sil2100> We published that recently, a rebuild against the overlay
<sil2100> hmmmmm
 * sil2100 checks what happened with that
<sil2100> Oh, we never published the silo
<sil2100> cjwatson: ok, sorry, my bad ;/ I was sure this landed as I was building the silo on Friday
<sil2100> cjwatson: I suppose it should land soon... do you think we could have an export later today?
<sil2100> Are the ubuntu-rtm/15.04 exports taking long? There's not so many translations in those
 * cjwatson checks
<cjwatson> sil2100: today's took six minutes; we can certainly ask webops for another, although bear in mind that I'm the only LP staff member around at the moment and I have a guest for dinner this evening
<sil2100> cjwatson: ACK, in the worst case, since it was so fast, we could also have it tomorrow in the morning
<sil2100> Since the release candidate will be created tomorrow anyway
<sil2100> cjwatson: thanks!
<cjwatson> sil2100: so what I suggest you do is ask #webops yourself for it in this case: they need to run 'LPCONFIG=production nice -16 /srv/launchpad.net/production/launchpad/bin/py /srv/launchpad.net/production/launchpad/cronscripts/language-pack-exporter.py ubuntu-rtm 15.04 --force-utf8-encoding -q --log-file=INFO:/srv/launchpad.net/production-logs/rosetta/language-pack-exporter.log' as launchpad@loganberry
<cjwatson> sil2100: you might not want to be in *too* much of a rush though; I can't remember how long it takes for the message sharing stuff to kick in
<sil2100> cjwatson: ah, excellent, thanks :) I'm wondering about one thing though - once I copy oxide-qt over, won't it require a translation batch copy from wily/vivid?
<sil2100> Since at first it'll have no translations after the templates get fetched, right?
<cjwatson> sil2100: no, the bulk copy was only needed for sources whose templates were missed
<sil2100> Ah, ok
<cjwatson> sil2100: the package copy will copy the template, and when message sharing kicks in it'll copy translations across too (since both ubuntu and ubuntu-rtm oxide-qt share with upstream, so that works transitively)
<sil2100> Oh!
<cjwatson> sil2100: but I'm not sure *exactly* when the latter step happens
<sil2100> That's good to know, ok, I'll give it some time before doing an export after the copy then
<cjwatson> sil2100: oh, it's a job that's scheduled as a result of the copy, that's right - so it should be reasonably quick
<cjwatson> I mean translations in general is kinda slow, give it a few minutes and check in the web UI
<pitti> sil2100: ah, http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/data/ubuntu-l10n/ubuntu_wily_potemplate-stats.json has priority 0 for it
<pitti> sil2100: I'll add it as a special case then
<cjwatson> sil2100: but I don't understand why this is a big deal; aren't the translations from vivid merged into the touch language packs, just as the image is made up of vivid + stable-phone-overlay?
<sil2100> cjwatson: not yet I guess, right now we're only building those from the overlay, as it in theory should have all touch-specific stuff in it
<cjwatson> well, except it doesn't, it's an overlay! :)
<sil2100> I think pitti would need to do some changes to langpack-o-matic to merge translations
<sil2100> I know!
<sil2100> :)
<cjwatson> ok, so I think that's the real problem ...
<sil2100> Well, I mean, in theory it shouldn't, but I copied over the few touch ones we're managing that were missing, so at least we're covered there
<pitti> sil2100: we could download the vivid tarball, merge it with the RTM tarball, and import that
<pitti> but I thought the point of ubuntu RTM was that we don't need to do that, as this will probably reintroduce obsolete translations?
<sil2100> Well, I wanted to have all important translations in ubuntu-rtm/15.04 so that translators don't need to go to two different places when dealing with translations
<sil2100> But I do see the merit of using vivid for those translations that didn't change since from the vivid side
<sil2100> And being more complete then
<sil2100> pitti: anyway, if anything, the vivid tarball should have the ubuntu-rtm/15.04 translations copied over it
<sil2100> Not the other way around
<mdeslaur> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: wily open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-vivid | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<Laney> tyhicks: hi, can you take a look at dbus in ppa:laney/experimental to see if it works wrt apparmor please?
<tyhicks> Laney: yes, I will
<Laney> tyhicks: thanks - would be good if we could get results so that I can upload before FF (Thursday)
<Laney> sorry for the short notice :(
<tyhicks> Laney: I'm quite busy today since I returned from holiday this morning but I can work on it in the background
<tyhicks> Laney: I'll have testing done by tomorrow, for sure
<mdeslaur> pitti, kees, stgraber, infinity, slangasek: is everyone at debconf? should we cancel the tech board meeting?
<slangasek> mdeslaur: pitti and I are at DebConf, infinity is proximate to LinuxCon
<slangasek> stgraber is maybe there also?
<slangasek> anyway I'm ok to cancel
<pitti> me too
<mdeslaur> slangasek, pitti, kees, stgraber, infinity: ok, meeting cancelled
<stgraber> slangasek: yeah, I'm at LinuxCon
<slangasek> mdeslaur: ack, thanks
<pitti> seb128, sil2100: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/ has updated debs now, after way too much manual hacking :/
<pitti> no removed po any more, just three new ones
<pitti> plz test
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> pitti, hum, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/ still has the old timestamp
<seb128> or is that a debconf proxy issue?
<pitti> seb128: perhaps UC?
<pitti> UTC
<pitti> seb128: sohuld be ~ 250 kB instead of the old ~ 40 kB
<seb128> oh, right
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> pitti: sorry for the hacking it needed from you ;p
<sil2100> I'll test the pl in a moment, my krillin is busy with some tests now
<pitti> sil2100: can clean this up later, I figure for now we just need some working packs?
<sil2100> pitti: yes :) Good thing you had time today since the plans changed and I will have to spin the first candidate today at nighttime
<seb128> pitti, sil2100, langpacks +1 from me, tested the standard apps and scopes, seems all fine in french
<seb128> including uitk translations that were missing earlier
<pitti> seb128: c'est grand !
<pitti> seb128: ou es-tu ? nous sommes dans la chambre nourriture
<seb128> pitti, je suis Ã  la prÃ©sentation sur apt
<sil2100> pitti: looking good here on pl too, not sure what more to check
<sil2100> I would say - let's upload o/
<pitti> sil2100: ack
<pitti> sil2100: hm, argh -- these are currently targeted at 15.04, not "vivid"; they should target the latter?
<sil2100> pitti: what do you mean?
<pitti> sil2100: debian/changelog series target
<pitti> sil2100: I won't upload them to RTM 15.04
<sil2100> vivid is the target, yes :)
<pitti> sil2100: but to "vivid"?
<sil2100> Ouch!
<pitti> ok
 * pitti seds
<pitti> sil2100: landing
<sil2100> pitti: thanks! Yay!
<sil2100> I see the massive uploads, awesome
<mterry> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: wily open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-vivid | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: mterry
<infinity> pitti: Is there a valid argument for the dbus trigger to be "interest" instead of "interest-noawait"?
<mstratman> This is a bit of naive question, but is there a general or rough average time between a proposed build (specifically https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgis/2.1.8+dfsg-1build3/+build/7764679) and when it'll be available?  Basically I'm trying to assess whether to build from source or wait for a package update
<mstratman> or are there individual maintainers and it depends on who is available and when
<sarnold> mstratman: it looks like ..1build3 has been in wily for nearly two days https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgis
<mstratman> do you have any ideas for typical timelines to make it into 14.04 ?
<sarnold> mstratman: it won't; once a distribution is released, most packages get patched for specific issues. a handful of programs like firefox, chromium-browser, mysql, libreoffice, get their updates made available, but those are by far the minority
<sarnold> mstratman: see e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Versions
<mstratman> Ok, thanks. Too bad because it has a nasty crash
<sarnold> mstratman: does it fix a specific bug? or does it provide a specific feature?
<mstratman> yeah, this is the main critical fix afaik: http://trac.osgeo.org/postgis/ticket/3125
<mstratman> it sounds like pinning may be a solution, though.
<sarnold> man, there's no links to fixes in there, how is anyone supposed to use that tracker? o_O
<mterry> Hrm.  libgtk2.0-dev is not installable on wily/arm64?
 * mterry wonders how best to determine why
<brendand> mterry, depends on why it's not installable
 * brendand realises the recursiveness of that question
<brendand> i was really just trying to ask what error you got
<mterry> brendand, :)  I don't know, I don't have much output.  It's causing a ftbfs for me on lshw, but the log is very vague: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/214901083/buildlog_ubuntu-wily-arm64.lshw_02.17-1.1ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
<mterry> I'm trying to see if I can get a qemu pbuilder going for arm64
<brendand> mterry, oh yeah apt is not that helpful there
<chiluk> RAOF, are you around?  Can you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/coreutils/+bug/1432871 ,  and give me an upload or a reject on it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1432871 in coreutils (Ubuntu) "`df` shows bind mounts instead of real mounts." [Low,New]
<chiluk> ah looks like RAOF is in australia ..  arges can you take another look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/coreutils/+bug/1432871  ??
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1432871 in coreutils (Ubuntu) "`df` shows bind mounts instead of real mounts." [Low,New]
<ari-tczew> infinity: could you quickly take a look on  bug 1476470 and give your feedback whether really delta can be dropped? (in your opinion, as you're last uploader)
<ubottu> bug 1476470 in trafficserver (Ubuntu) "Sync trafficserver 5.3.0-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476470
<arges> chiluk: where is the upstream email when you submitted this patch
<chiluk> arges... read the sru
<chiluk> I never submitted upstream because upstream has diverged too much and it no longer applies
<chiluk> mostly because of the move to rely on /proc/mounts
<mterry> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: wily open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-vivid | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<chiluk> yeah arges ... I know it would be a sauce patch.. it's documented as such in the text of the patch..  I really need an accept or reject on it
 * cjwatson retries mterry's lshw thing above, seems to be working now
<cjwatson> (I tried 'ssh -t snakefruit sudo -iu ubuntu-archive chdist-mainonly apt-get wily-proposed-arm64 build-dep lshw', which is only useful for a small group of people but you can do the same thing with a suitably configured chdist instance, no need for qemu or pbuilder or what-have-you)
#ubuntu-devel 2015-08-19
<moroniclibber> Hey guys.  I'm a little concerned about mir.  I see applications getting ported over to wayland but I'm afraid mir will be neglectated.  If I  continue to use Ubuntu can I expect to get eventual native Libreoffice and Firefox mir support eventually?
<moroniclibber> Mostly my concern is I don't want to be running tons of applications under xmir while wayland users get most of their apps natively and not under xwayland
<pitti> infinity: interest-noawait seems fine to me at first sight; I'm not familiar with the history, but it doesn't seem to have been a conscious decision "this needs to block"
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> zyga, happy birthday!
<zyga> dholbach: thank you :)
<brendand> zyga, birthday?
<brendand> zyga, well happy birthday :)
<zyga> brendand: well, what can I say, yes
<zyga> brendand: thank you :-)
<rbasak> pitti: do you happen to quickly know if https://launchpadlibrarian.net/214686286/DpkgTerminalLog.txt is a local configuration change or a bug?
<rbasak> I've not seen that before - can a user disable the service to cause that, or is it because something else caused it to fail to start?
<rbasak> (this is from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/1485487)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1485487 in openssh (Ubuntu) "package openssh-server 1:6.7p1-5ubuntu1.2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<rbasak> barry: could you please advise if installing eg. ./usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/kimchi/plugins/ginger/API.json is acceptable or if that should be in /usr/share/kimchi instead? It looks unusual to me so I thought I'd check. This is review for a new package.
<rbasak> (I'd normally expect to see only .py files in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages)
<barry> rbasak: tl;dr: it's fine.  many python libraries do include data files in their directory structure, and that works well with pkg_resources.  they can use that api to find the data files easily.  it does seem odd that those data files don't go in /usr/share but it's normal.  moving them is more trouble than it's worth.  upstream we've talked about ways to put such data files elsewhere but in a way that they're still easily found by the
<barry> normal apis, but so far that hasn't gone anywhere.
<rbasak> OK. Thanks!
<barry> pitti, slangasek or anybody else who has shell to autopkgtest.u.c: could you please retry the tox i386 build?  it's tmpfail for what looks like problems related to the testbed (i.e. amd64 passes, and i386 should pass too now)
<barry> pitti, slangasek same for cantor/amd64
<pete-woods> any package-fu-masters out there who could tell me what's wrong with the packaging of indicator-network that makes it non-installable in cross-build?
<pete-woods> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-network/trunk.15.10/view/head:/debian/control
<cyphermox> pete-woods: what do you mean by uninstallable in cross-build?
<pete-woods> cyphermox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/connectivity-api/+bug/1472186
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1472186 in connectivity-api (Ubuntu) "Can't install libconnectivty-qt1-dev on multiarch" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<AlbertA> doko: can I get some help to submit this bug upstream? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-5/+bug/1482320
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1482320 in gcc-5 (Ubuntu) "[armhf] exception not caught when defining identical lambdas built with -O2" [Undecided,New]
<cyphermox> AlbertA: wfm...
<AlbertA> cyphermox: armhf?
<cyphermox> oh wait, I didn't try it on armhf
<doko> AlbertA, I'll look at it tomorrow
<AlbertA> doko: thanks
<cjwatson> mterry: oh BTW http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/08/18/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t22:23 was a reply to you but you weren't actually on IRC at the time
<mterry> cjwatson, oh thank you!  I noticed some kind soul retried it and it worked
<mterry> cjwatson, I never did have success getting an arm64 VM going to poke around
<cjwatson> mterry: You don't need VMs for this kind of thing.  chdist rules
<mterry> cjwatson, oooh, never used that before.  It does look like exactly what I needed, cheers
<arunpyasi> Hi guys
<arunpyasi> Can I get some support in respining an ISO ?
<davmor2> arunpyasi: do you mean respin or do you mean remaster?
<arunpyasi> davmor2, I want to install/upgrade linux kernel 4.0 on a ubuntu iso I have using ubuntu builder or similar. I had tried with ubuntu builder but while testing, it stuck at busybox initramfs, it didn't boot the system to the desktop. Thanks.
<davmor2> arunpyasi: not sure how up-to-date this is but it might help you out a little https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
<arunpyasi> davmor2, sir, this guide doesn't have the portion what I am wanting to do. I just want to install linux kernel 4.0 to my trusty iso, thats all sir.
<arunpyasi> davmor2, as I have already told, I got stuck on busybox shell, can you please tell me why its stuck. I mean some general reasons for the stuck.
<davmor2> arunpyasi: out of my league then
<arunpyasi> davmor2, Ok sir.
<mitya57> barry, doko: can I please get ~pythoneers subscribed to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sphinx-rtd-theme bugs? For LP: #1485231
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1485231 in sphinx-rtd-theme (Ubuntu) "[MIR] sphinx-rtd-theme" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1485231
<doko> mitya57, you mean that people look at this for bug reports?
<mitya57> doko, I thought team subscriber is a requirement for getting the package into main. You may correct me though :)
<mitya57> I also requested a similar thing for previous MIRs, and you added it to some packages.
<mitya57> I hope I'll take care of all bug reports myself, but I am not the teamâ¦
<doko> yes, but for main it should be a team with somebody from canonical. so barry maybe should add it to foundations
<doko> mitya57, but I wouldn't mind updating pythoneers to the current set of python modules in main ...
<mitya57> barry, so please add it to foundations if you can
<barry> doko, mitya57 i agree long term we should subscribe pythoneers to python packages in main.  i don't have time for that right now, so for now i'll just subscribe pythoneers to sphinx-rtd-theme
<mitya57> barry, thanks!
<mitya57> I'm not yet sure if my MIR makes sense the day before feature freeze, but even if not now, I would need it at the beginning of next cycle anyway.
<doko> barry, that doesn't help for the MIR
<barry> doko: why not?
<doko> barry, because pythoneers is no "canonical" team. or are you looking at all packages in this team on a regular basis, and keep the packages in this team up to date?
<doko> apparently not =)
<mitya57> FWIW https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements tells "a developer or team of developers paying attention to their bugs", but doesn't say anything about "Canonical team"
<mitya57> If it's really the requirement, it perhaps should be mentioned in the wiki
<barry> well, looking and fixing are two different things :/
<barry> i think pythoneers is a better team than foundations, but i'm happy to discuss that on the mlist
<doko> bad zul ... debian/rules: Dont run tests for python35.
<barry> :(
<zul> doko: fails miserably with python35
<doko> fix it
<doko> or don't use lifeless fork
<hallyn_> pitti: hi - do you know of a way in a .service file to ask systemd to not create a slice at all for the service?
<hallyn_> Using Slice=boo I can ask that the slice be created *under* boo, but I can't seem to say "dont create one"
<hallyn_> although in the code I see checks for "if ->cgroup_name == NULL", so I assume there's a way to say what I want...
<hallyn_> (and, using "Slice=-.slice" I'm only asking for service.slice to be created as a root level cgroup rather than under system.slice - still not what i want)
<lifeless> doko: what ?
<lifeless> zul: what fails with python35 ?
<zul> lifeless: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12130288/
<lifeless> zul: appears to be a bug in unittest2
<lifeless> zul: I haven't synced it in a bit. If you wanted to put a patch up (in the bug tracker which has just moved from google code - its now https://github.com/testing-cabal/unittest-ext
<lifeless> zul: but the code is still - https://hg.python.org/unittest2
<lifeless> zul: On my short term todo is moving it from there into git and then setting up travis for it with the nightly branch tests
<zul> lifeless: ok ill take a look when i get a chance
<lifeless> zul: I suspect the failure might be due to the bug in traceback about exception header lines
<lifeless> zul: e.g. cosmetic at most
<pitti> slangasek: FYI, I already retried all tmpfail issues, there were some "hit the quota limit" issues
<lifeless> zul: so yeah, I think its related to issue #24695:
<lifeless> zul: which I haven't backported yet
<lifeless> zul: probably there's some mismatch - some point where its using the built in traceback module vs traceback2
<lifeless> zul: I've reproduced it locally though - so its not a packaging issue.
<lifeless> zul: file the bug upstream, move on.
<zul> ok
<zul> ill do that in a bit
<pitti> hallyn_: i. e. you want a service to be in cgroup /servicename.service directly without a slice parent? I don't know whether that's possible or even makes sense (especially not in the future unified hierarchy), might be worth asking in #systemd or the ML?
<lifeless> zul: thanks
<jcastro> pitti: so I suppose that it would be a combination of the SRU queue processing and the seven day wait period.
<jcastro> that just seems to slow
<infinity> jcastro: I missed context, but what SRU is "too slow"?
<jcastro> for getting in the newest nvidia drivers.
<jcastro> I mean, tbh, if the SRU process wasn't slow we would have never needed to make a PPA.
<infinity> jcastro: Talking hypotheticals, I guess?  There aren't any in the queue or proposed.
<infinity> jcastro: You do remember the wild west that was SRUs before we made the process slow, right?
<hallyn_> pitti: no, i can do /servicename.service using Slice=-.slice.  But I want it to be in /
<infinity> jcastro: It's a bit of a catch-22 here.
<jcastro> yes I do
<cjwatson> wild west => we're all fired
<jcastro> and I realize what I am asking for is totally opposite of what we know is the right thing
<infinity> jcastro: And given the packaging of those drivers, they *do* need review and testing, because they *do* break, often.
<jcastro> but if the answer is "nope, not going to happen" then that's fine too, there are plenty of things we can work on
<infinity> jcastro: It's not a simple case like tzdata, where the packaging is minimal, and the data is verifiable.
<jcastro> infinity: right, but I was hoping to get away with "not our problem, if they break, talk to the vendor."
<jcastro> like they do for every single platform except for us apparently. :-/
<infinity> jcastro: The *packaging* breaks often. :P
<infinity> jcastro: Which totally is our problem.
<jcastro> oh, I see!
<jcastro> infinity: so do you think we should just sort ourselves for a while and see how it goes and then approach later?
<infinity> jcastro: The binary blobs break even more often, true, but as you say, not a whole lot we can do about that.
<infinity> jcastro: Who is us, and what are you sorting, and with whom?
<infinity> jcastro: I mean, driver updates in stable releases need to happen.  Making them happen more quickly is a laudable goal.  Making them happen 0-day with upstream releases isn't going to happen without you having advance copies and pre-review and a bunch of other fancy.  The history of these packages is not good enough for any of us to give them a hand-wave without reviewing every, single, upload thoroughly (which sucks...)
<jcastro> https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<jcastro> infinity: imo it doesn't need to be perfect, it needs to be enough to stop people from saying "if you game don't use ubuntu."
<infinity> jcastro: Ugh.  No.  We're not adding PPAs as official repos in installers.
<jcastro> heh
<infinity> jcastro: If it's good enough to put our name on it, it belongs in the primary archive, if it's so crap it can only happen in a PPA, it shouldn't be recommended to users, don't game the system.
<jcastro> fair enough
<jcastro> We apparently don't have the resources to have people dedicated to bringing things into the primary archive
<jcastro> which is as I understand it how we got so behind in the first place
<rbasak> What if we found a way to have two streams in the archive at once?
<rbasak> Although I suppose that's what -proposed is.
<rbasak> Could we for example get things into -proposed very quickly, and make it easy for consenting users to specifically consume nvidia drivers from -proposed very easily?
<rbasak> Or will we not be able to keep up with that?
#ubuntu-devel 2015-08-20
<tsimonq2> Just wondering, does Ubuntu have support for HEVC yet? Or is that a Win10 only thing for now?
<tsimonq2> And specifically version 3...
<tsimonq2> Anyone?
<tsimonq2> Because Android supports it...
<tsimonq2> And maybe I answered my own question, because VLC does...
<tsimonq2> !vlc
<ubottu> Audio (Ogg, MP3...) players: Audacious, Banshee, Listen, Quod Libet, Rhythmbox, Exaile, XMMS2 (GTK/Gnome based) and Amarok, JuK (Qt/KDE based).  Video players: Totem, Xine, MPlayer, VLC, Kaffeine - See also !codecs
<tsimonq2> Version 2.2.0 I thinl
<tsimonq2> *think
<tsimonq2> I am just going to go with that :P
<tsimonq2> Thanks
<pitti> hallyn_: ah, all services run in their own cgroup, you can't entirely "unconfine" them
<pitti> hallyn_: as that's how systemd tracks service lifecycle, subprocesses, and reliable stopping
<sabdfl> hi folks, is there a known issue with the 14.04.3 installer, very long filenames in the ISO?
<sabdfl> block-modules-3.19.0-25-generic-di_3.19.0-25.26~14.04.1_amd64.ude
<sabdfl> note the lack of a b :)
<jtaylor> aren't isos limited to 64 characters in the first place? or is that just restriction of some old format?
<flexiondotorg> pitti, deja-dup-caja has been in the Wily new queue for a few weeks now. Who should I talk to to request it is promoted?
<flexiondotorg> pitti, It is a feature I would like to land for Ubuntu MATE 15.10.
<mdeslaur> cjwatson: thanks for the details regarding that extra openssh patch, I was definitely wondering why it nobody reported it anywhere else, and I couldn't reproduce the issue myself even on precise.
<cjwatson> mdeslaur: Yeah, my initial reaction was "hang on, why is that needed"
<cjwatson> then git blame / git describe --contains ...
<flexiondotorg> micahg, Hi I the lead for Ubuntu MATE. I wanted to land Blueman2 in Wily but I've been (and still am) on jury service for the last 3 weeks.
<flexiondotorg> micahg, I see in mom that you've said you'll tackle the Blueman2 merge. Are you planning to do this for 15.10?
<tjaalton> doko: -intel built on wily breaks 90/270 rotation, vivid binary works. please explain :)
<doko> tjaalton, missing context
<tjaalton> doko: same source built on wily fails
<tjaalton> all I can think of is the toolchain changes
<doko> tjaalton, ENOCONTEXT
<tjaalton> xserver-xorg-video-intel, screen rotation is buggy on wily
<tjaalton> enough?
<tjaalton> filed a bug too 1486920
<tjaalton> bug 1486920
<ubottu> bug 1486920 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[regression] 90/270 degree rotation is broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1486920
<doko> tjaalton, does this happen with the version found in -release too?
<tjaalton> yes, the new snapshot doesn't break/fix things
<tjaalton> the current one is basically the same as on vivid, plus some build-fixes
<tjaalton> hmm, libxrandr did change
<tjaalton> perhaps I'll try to comb through the libx* changes first
<doko> tjaalton, if this doesn't help, please try building the package with -O0/-O1
<tjaalton> ok I will
<doko> still at DebConf this week, so will be on/off
<tjaalton> sure, this isn't super urgent anyway
<tjaalton> just very puzzling..
<tjaalton> doko: nah, tried both -O0 & -O1, and building against older libxrandr, none worked
<tjaalton> I'll update the bug and leave it for now
<rbasak> rsalveti: could you send your upload in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cifs-utils/2:6.0-1ubuntu2 upstream please?
<rbasak> rsalveti: it looks a bit odd to me, since the variable is named is_systemd_running and you're adding a check to see if it's installed.
<rbasak> rsalveti: (I'm reviewing a merge for kickinz1; the merge won't change behaviour to keep the delta so I will upload as-is, but it should be resolved)
<frafu> Hi, As you may know, Onboard is the default on-screen keyboard of Ubuntu. We have just released a new micro update that contains among others a few bug fixes for wily. I have created a debianisation based on the package currently in wily. Could anybody with the appropriate privileges have a look at the sponsorship request before feature freeze kicks in? Thanks in advance.
<frafu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/onboard/+bug/1487009
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1487009 in onboard (Ubuntu) " New bugfix release of Onboard (debanisation for wily provided) " [Undecided,New]
<rbasak> frafu: does it include bugfixes only? Then you aren't affected by feature freeze.
<frafu> rbasak: It is a new upstream release with bug fixes and also some small improvements for example in the auto-show feature and it also translation updates from rosetta.
<frafu> rbasak: It is not the package currently in the repositories with new patches; it is a new release. The changes are listed in the bug description of the sponsorship request linked above.
<rsalveti> rbasak: yeah, that was only needed when we were still using upstart
<rbasak> rsalveti: ah. It can be dropped now then?
<rsalveti> rbasak: yes, we can just import latest from debian
<rbasak> kickinz1: ^^
<rbasak> kickinz1: as it's feature freeze today maybe easiest to just keep the delta this time to avoid having to retest etc. We can drop it next cycle. It won't cause any harm.
<frafu> seb128: Hi, I wanted to let you know that we created a new micro release of onboard, the default on-screen keyboard of Ubuntu. It contains several bug fixes for wily, so it might be good to have it accepted before feature freeze kicks in later today. I debianised the new release basing it on the onboard package currently in the main repo. You can find the debianisation in the following sponsorship request:
<frafu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/onboard/+bug/1487009
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1487009 in onboard (Ubuntu) " New bugfix release of Onboard (debanisation for wily provided) " [Undecided,New]
<seb128> frafu, hey, sorry but I'm about to call it a day, I can have a look tomorrow, bugfixes updates are not subject to feature freeze
<frafu> seb128: Thanks for looking at it tomorrow, but it does also contain some small improvements that might not be qualified as real bug fixes. There are however no new features. I hope it will be allright to get picked up also after feature freeze.
<seb128> frafu, should be ok, you can still try to find another sponsor today as well
<frafu> ok, thanks for your help
<frafu> infinity: Hi, Would it be possible for you to have a look at the following sponsorship request before feature freeze kicks in? Thanks in advance.
<frafu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/onboard/+bug/1487009
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1487009 in onboard (Ubuntu) " New bugfix release of Onboard (debanisation for wily provided) " [Undecided,New]
<mterry> coreycb, heyo!  re: bug 1477668, why is mysqldb no longer suitable?  i.e. why don't our openstack packages just use it instead?
<ubottu> bug 1477668 in python-pymysql (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-pymysql" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477668
<coreycb> mterry, hey!
<coreycb> this is an overview of why upstream openstack is moving to pymysql https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PyMySQL_evaluation
<frafu> Ampelbein: Hi, As a member of the sponsorship team, do you have some time to look at the following request before feature freeze kicks in?
<frafu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/onboard/+bug/1487009
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1487009 in onboard (Ubuntu) " New bugfix release of Onboard (debanisation for wily provided) " [Undecided,New]
<mterry> coreycb, so nova, tornado, and taskflow are in main and depend on python-mysqldb.  As you mention in the MIR, ideally those are ported this cycle to use pymsql.  Do you think that can happen?
<mterry> It's feature freeze today; I don't know know whether that covers porting like that
<coreycb> mterry, yes, and we can handle that
<coreycb> pymysql is a drop in replacement for mysqldb so it shouldn't be a big deal
<coreycb> mterry, but yeah that's a good question re feature freeze.  I imagine an exception would be allowed for that but not sure.
<mterry> coreycb, excellent.  I'm getting a test failure?  Looks like it hasn't been rebuilt in the archive for a while...  something may have bitrotten.  Do you see a build failure?
<coreycb> mterry, let me look
<mterry> coreycb, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=796010
<ubottu> Debian bug 796010 in src:python-pymysql "python-pymysql: FTBFS: InternalError: (1317, u'Query execution was interrupted')" [Serious,Open]
<mterry> coreycb, looks like what I'm seeing
<frafu> Hi coreycb, Do you know anybody who could look at the following sponsorship request: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/onboard/+bug/1487009 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1487009 in onboard (Ubuntu) " New bugfix release of Onboard (debanisation for wily provided) " [Undecided,New]
<coreycb> mterry, thanks.  I'll look into that and get back to you.
<mterry> coreycb, looks good besides
<mterry> coreycb, (plus needs a team bug subscriber)
<coreycb> frafu, has anyone in particular sponsored you in the past?
<coreycb> mterry, got it, thanks!
<frafu> coreycb: Yes, if I remember correct TheMuso, who is greyed at the moment. It is a good idea, I will try to look that up.
<coreycb> frafu, sounds good, he may be more familiar with your package
<frafu> coreycb: Is there a way to look up who sponsored the previous sponsorship requests?
<juliank> meh, I changed the HEAD of the upstream APT repository today, and now launchpad imported that to bzr. What will happen when I change it back?
#ubuntu-devel 2015-08-21
<tjaalton> jderose: yo, still there?
<pitti> flexiondotorg: it's okay, NEW delays aren't taken into account for FF
<Riddell> cjwatson: you say I can update packagekit up to some version?
<cjwatson> Riddell: 1.0 will break click until mvo gets round to landing that branch
<cjwatson> I know not where that stands
<Riddell> mvo: hola, where do you stand? I can update to 0.9 I think should be enough for what I need (my gsoc project to install bits) but obviously latest would be nicer
<mvo> Riddell: at debconf right now, I can try to get to it next week but time is very limited currently due to other duties, the branch should basicly be ready, its missing tests and some more manual testing
<Riddell> mvo: groovy, I'll see if I can update to 0.9 to make feature freeze then we can test your stuff next week
<Laney> Riddell: to make feature freeze?
<Laney> it was yesterday
<Riddell> ah, hmm
<Riddell> oops :)
<Laney> Happy to see you guys appstreaming though as I'm kind of interested in that stuff for us too
<Laney> ximion showed me appstream.kubuntu.co.uk
<Riddell> Laney: yeah I need to chat to him about what the next steps are for that
<Laney> PPAs seem a bit hard
<Laney> I guess you care about that too
<Riddell> mm, I've not through about that
<Laney> think it will need some kind of LP integration
<Laney> even if that's a dispatch/collect job or something
 * Laney doesn't really know
<rbasak> sil2100: I'll sponsor your patch in bug 1471903 if there isn't any further objection. ogra_, do you have any other comment in response to bdmurray's response?
<ubottu> bug 1471903 in live-build (Ubuntu) "-updates, -security missing from apt lists" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1471903
<ogra_> rbasak, you mean beyond asking to wait for signoff from the product team (pat mcgowan is back on monday) ?
<sil2100> rbasak: hey! Thanks, no, I didn't hear anything new... also, infinity seemed to be in favour of the same change as well
<rbasak> ogra_: signoff for what reason?
<ogra_> rbasak, note that mako already has probs installing from scratch today due to the smaller cache size
<ogra_> rbasak, the product team usually makes all size related decisions for these images
<sil2100> ogra_: this can basically land to wily now anyway, the PT will decide if we want the change in the stable images or not
<sil2100> Since this is not only about the phone images but all images everywhere
<ogra_> sil2100, well, you deal with the support in #ubuntu-touch for mako users then :P
<sil2100> uh oh, we recommend using rc images for mako as well!
<rbasak> ogra_: so you're saying that I can't upload any bugfix that will increase size without product team approval? I realise this is a bit special, but that doesn't sound reasonable in the general case for me.
<ogra_> i'm not really fond of bypassing the product team with that one, but up to you
<ogra_> rbasak, for the phone images they are our consumer and need to make sure what we pdoruce fits on the vendors devices
<ogra_> *produce
<ogra_> if we add bits to the seed of the phones we usually coordinate with them
<rbasak> ScottK: around? I'm reviewing kickinz1's merge of amavisd-new and am a bit confused about debian/22-amavisd-new-postfix. It doesn't seem to be used or end up in a binary package in the current version in Wily. kickinz1 has moved it to debian/etc/conf.d/ where I think it will get used. Does this sound right to you?
<rbasak> I wonder if Debian restructured debian/ and this part of the delta got left behind or something. But clearly if we do this the binary package delta will change from the user's perspective. Maybe this is an accidentally disappeared confflie from the past?
<rbasak> Or should it ship with amavisd-new-postfix only?
<rbasak> ivoks: ^^ looks like you touched this back in the day. Any ideas please?
<ivoks> checking
<ivoks> without looking at the source
<ivoks> 22-amavisd-new-postfix should be amavisd-new-postfix's amavis configuration
<ivoks> it should ship only with amavisd-new-postfix package
<rbasak> OK, thanks
<ivoks> but, i haven't touched this in 5 years :)
<rbasak> Where should amavisd-new-postfix drop that file when installed?
<ivoks> where other amavis' configuration is. iirc that's /etc/amavis/conf.d
<rbasak> OK that makes sense.
<ivoks> looking at source
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> that file was never utilized
<rbasak> I wonder how that got lost though. Seems unlikely that amavisd-new-postfix.install would get lost in a merge.
<ivoks> at least not in 14.10
<ivoks> er 15.04
<rbasak> Yeah - hence my confusion
<ivoks> that file enables antispam and antivirus functionality :D
<ivoks> without it amavisd-new-postfix is not very useful
<ivoks> but
<rbasak> Nor is it in Precise.
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> maybe default changed
<ivoks> give me a second
<rbasak> Thanks
<ivoks> it didn't
<ivoks> yeah, i built that in 2010
<ivoks> but has been merged few times since then
<ivoks> rbasak: bottom line, it needs to be shipped with amavisd-new-postfix, in /etc/amavisd/conf.d/
<ivoks> rbasak: but you might want to double check with ScottK
<rbasak> OK, thanks.
<ivoks> didn't help you there :)
<rbasak> kickinz1: ^^
<rbasak> Well, it's nice to know that someone knows what's going on here.
<rbasak> IMHO, we should retire the deltas relating to mail-delivery-stack etc.
<rbasak> But that's a discussion for another day.
<ivoks> idea behind m-d-s was to have single packet that will set 'best practices' for mail server
<ivoks> at first, amavisd-new-postfix was not included in that because antispam and antivirus functions impact mail delivery
<rbasak> Yeah. Trouble is that it tries to shoehorn both service orchestration and configuration management into packaging, which doesn't really work well IMHO. Made sense at the time, but we have better tools nowadays.
<ivoks> and when you go into realm of not delivering an email for some reason, then you need to be sure you have no false positives (which is impossible)
<ivoks> yeah, i get that
<rbasak> I'd like to see all this stuff implemented into charms and then pulled out of packaging.
<rbasak> (in all that free time I have)
<ivoks> i did start that effort long time ago
<ivoks> never finished it :/
<ScottK> rbasak: it's been even longer for me the ivoks since I touched it.  The mail stack stuff is unmaintained for a very long time. I agree about dropping it.
<ivoks> there you go
<rbasak> ScottK, ivoks: OK, thanks. For this cycle, I think maybe we can merge without changing anything from what is there already - so let's not ship 22-amavisd-new-postfix at all just like we weren't doing before since that won't regress anyone.
<rbasak> We can talk about dropping this stuff next cycle.
<ivoks> yeah, it should be announced
<ivoks> and before we drop it, at least have a replacement strategy
<rbasak> kickinz1: ^^
<ivoks> juju this and that to get it like you had
<ivoks> for that we need charms
<dholbach> tkamppeter, do you know who can take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/hplip/+bug/1486732?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1486731 in HPLIP "duplicate for #1486732 hplip-3.15.7-plugin.run doens't return" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dholbach> I'm seeing the same thing
<jderose> tjaalton: was off to bed, but here now :)
<jcastro> ivoks: wrt. charming the mail stack, I can put it on our team's wishlist, is your code pushed to the store?
<ivoks> jcastro: let me take a look
<ivoks> jcastro: ah, now i remember
<ivoks> at that time charms were unable to fetch information that was required to do this
<ivoks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ivoks/charms/precise/mail-stack-delivery/trunk
<ivoks> i think the problem was the fact that juju was unable to tell me which node departed
<ivoks> so, i was suposed to come up with a workaround for which i had no time then
<jcastro> ivoks: I'll toss it on our list, can't promise everything, but it'd be nice to provide that for people
<ivoks> jcastro: ok
<tkamppeter> dholbach, the two bug reports are for Arch Linux, but I contacted the HP guys directly anyway.
<dholbach> tkamppeter, thanks
<tjaalton> jderose: ah, nothing special, just that skl on wily needs work on the kernel still
<jderose> tjaalton: ah, right.  so was i correct that this patch set you proposed is why skylake is shiny on Vivid, Trust+Vivid HWE and badly broken on Wily?
<tjaalton> it only fixes a known gpu hang and probably prevents some others
<tjaalton> you need to give i915.preliminary_hw_support=1 to actually use the kernel module
<jderose> tjaalton: ah, thanks, great tip! i did notice that kms doesn't seem to be used on Wily... so the horrible GPU performance is actually because the GPU isn't used at all?
<tjaalton> right
<jderose> okay, that's very helpful. means i can do reasonable testing in the mean time :D
<tjaalton> yep
<jderose> tjaalton: if you don't mind my asking, what's your assessment of Ubuntu on skylake hardware overall? any show stopping issues?
<ejat> anyone can explained why there is 153 packages not upgrade ?
<ejat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12142510/
<cjwatson> dist-upgrade not upgrade
<cjwatson> upgrade on its own is only very slightly useful, especially when we're in the middle of a C++ transition requiring a bunch of library packages to be renamed
<ejat> cjwatson: if i do dist-upgrade .. there is 97 to remove and 5 not upgraded.
<cjwatson> yes, you have to inspect the list to be removed
<cjwatson> feel free to pastebin that
<cjwatson> (well, the full output)
<ejat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12142547/
<ejat> scary after doing the inspection
<cjwatson> so a lot of those are correct but there's evidently something up with libreoffice
<cjwatson> I mean, the libraries, those are basically just swapping existing ones out for v5 variants
<ejat> owh ..
<ejat> so ok for me to proceed removing all that 97 ?
<cjwatson> no
<cjwatson> "there's evidently something up with libreoffice"
<ejat> owh .. okie .. sorry bout it ..
<ejat> what should i do know ?
<ejat> file a bugs ?
<cjwatson> pastebin 'apt-get -oDebug::pkgProblemResolver=true dist-upgrade'
<cjwatson> also make sure that you only have wily in sources.list, not wily-proposed
<cjwatson> pitti: language-pack-kde-{ia,wa} are uninstallable in wily - missing -base and non-kde packages by the looks of it?
<ejat> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12142592/
<ejat> no proposed
<cjwatson> ejat: I suspect you have some old package installed that it doesn't want to remove for some reason, since our analysis tools say libreoffice is installable in wily.  What does 'apt-get -oDebug::pkgProblemResolver=true install libclucene-core1v5' say?
<willcooke> g'night all
<cjwatson> Investigating (0) libstreamanalyzer0v5 [ i386 ] < none -> 0.7.8-1ubuntu5 > ( libs )
<cjwatson> Broken libstreamanalyzer0v5:i386 Conflicts on libstreamanalyzer0 [ i386 ] < 0.7.8-1ubuntu2build1 > ( libs )
<cjwatson>   Considering libstreamanalyzer0:i386 103 as a solution to libstreamanalyzer0v5:i386 0
<cjwatson>   Holding Back libstreamanalyzer0v5:i386 rather than change libstreamanalyzer0:i386
<cjwatson> I think that's where it starts going wrong
<ejat> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12142634/
<cjwatson> I wonder why libstreamanalyzer0 has such a high score
<ejat> is it only me who face it ? or got some others reporting it too ?
<zul> mterry: ping
<mterry> zul, hello
<zul> mterry: im just looking at the python-pymysql MIR, the server team is subscribed to the bug report, however the debian bug report, the reason why the test is failing in the debian bug is because mysql not installed
<cjwatson> ejat: please could you create a tarball of /var/lib/apt/, /var/cache/apt/, and /var/lib/dpkg/, and attach it to a new bug against Ubuntu apt along with the debug output from dist-upgrade above?  I've spent as much time on this as I can for a Friday evening, but it smells like an apt bug to me, it's odd that it doesn't seem to be preferring libstreamanalyzer0v5 over the non-v5 version
<cjwatson> with such a tarball it should be possible to recreate the bug elsewhere
<mterry> zul, I was also seeing the failure locally.  Is there a missing build-dep then?
<zul> mterry: other than mysql not being installed
<zul> mterry: there isnt afaik
<mterry> zul, maybe I'm missing something, but "mysql not being installed" sounds like a missing Build-Depend?
<zul> mterry: yeah mysql
<zul> mterry: ill see what i can do
<ejat> can upload such big file /var/cache/apt/ to launchpad?
<ejat> cjwatson: ?
<anna__> I get this: Skipping dist/deb_dist/nuitka_0.5.14~pre9+ds-1_amd64.changes: Can't locate Date/Parse.pm in @INC (you may need to install the Date::Parse module)
<anna__> Any idea, why all my pbuilders starting doing that recently? The package libtimedate-perl appears to be installed... so that's strange
<ejat> cjwatson: bug #1487569
<ubottu> bug 1487569 in apt (Ubuntu) " a lot of files to be removed when execute apt-get dist-upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1487569
<tjaalton> jderose: not at all.. it should be pretty stable, but the display side is lacking. new bios code can break current modesetting etc..
<jderose> tjaalton: gotcha, thanks. and thanks for the FYI about bios being able to break kms, very good to know.
<jderose> tjaalton: when you say new bios can break KMS... do you mean newer Intel video bios?
<mterry> bdmurray, FYI, ~ubuntu-server is looking after bandit package in main now
<tjaalton> jderose: right
<jderose> tjaalton: gotcha, thanks!
<slangasek> mdeslaur: I'm doing some cleanup of the edk2 package, including providing OVMF_{CODE,VARS}.fd as split files which is apparently what's needed for proper per-VM EFI variable support.  However the virt-manager we have doesn't appear to have proper integration with this (though our libvirt does).  You don't happen to have any prerelease packages based on the 1.2.0 virt-manager in Debian experimental,
<slangasek>  do you?
<mdeslaur> slangasek: I don't, no
<mdeslaur> slangasek: I can look at this next week if you'd like
<slangasek> mdeslaur: ok.  I may just upload this untested then, since it's backwards-compatible with what we're currently doing and somebody else can figure out the new stuff
<slangasek> mdeslaur: that would be keen but it's by no means high priority
#ubuntu-devel 2015-08-22
<ejat> cjwatson : r u there
<ejat> can someone help to look into bug #1487569
<ubottu> bug 1487569 in apt (Ubuntu) "a lot of packages need to be remove when execute apt-get dist-upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1487569
<ejat> bug 1487569
<ejat> how to reset unity in wily ?
<ejat> i lost the unity panel n launcher
 * ejat .. ok .. manage to reset it .. :) 
#ubuntu-devel 2015-08-23
<goddard> I'm on 4.1.0-3-generic wily werewolf and I my system locks up when plugging an xbox one controller into my system
<goddard> Does anyone else have one that can verify?
<goddard> Here is what I am talking about
<goddard> http://askubuntu.com/questions/664719/xbox-one-controller-locks-up-system
#ubuntu-devel 2016-08-22
<est31> Hello.
<est31> I'm a minetest developer.
<est31> Recently there has been a release of an upstream library minetest uses, irrlicht
<est31> that release has been ignored by debian, until now
<est31> maybe they will continue to ignore it, idk
<est31> is there a way to get the newest irrlicht release into ubuntu 16.10?
<est31> Thanks to anyone replying.
<est31> relevant links:
<est31> https://qa.debian.org/cgi-bin/watch?pkg=irrlicht
<est31> http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/?p=1575
<est31> http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/i/irrlicht/irrlicht_1.8.3+dfsg1-2_changelog
<est31> Current state makes me really sad, as there are bugfixes inside the library which the users need!
<est31> s/library/release/
<Son_Goku> est31, you need to complain to debian
<Unit193> Looks like Julien Puydt did something on it just last month.
<Son_Goku> irrlicht comes to ubuntu through the debian import/merge
<Son_Goku> if the package in debian is updated quickly enough in unstable and testing, then it'll come to ubuntu 16.10 through the regular automatic import
<est31> Son_Goku, no, because there is already a freeze in effect
<est31> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianImportFreeze
<Son_Goku> then you'll need to request an exception
<est31> and what if debian doesn't update in time?
<Son_Goku> file a bug in the irrlicht ubuntu package requesting it
<Son_Goku> then you're stuck
<Son_Goku> as a rule of thumb, ubuntu doesn't make packages
<Son_Goku> nor does it generally accept any
<Son_Goku> it's downstream from debian, and aside from some extraordinary cases, usually the debian and ubuntu packaging is managed upstream in debian
<est31> testing requires stuff to be at least one month in unstable, right?
<Son_Goku> normally yes
<Son_Goku> however, being in unstable alone is usually enough
<Son_Goku> as ubuntu is sourced from testing and unstable
<est31> thats enough for updating?
<Son_Goku> well, that, and you need to make a good case to the MOTU
<est31> 1. only one dep -- minetest
<est31> 2. only a bugfix release
<Son_Goku> I'm not on the MOTU or an Ubuntu developer
<Son_Goku> heck, I don't even use Ubuntu
<Son_Goku> you need to file your request here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/irrlicht
<Son_Goku> but only after debian is updated
<est31> yes.
<Son_Goku> good luck
<est31> I just know that launchpad is not the medium I want to use so that stuff gets looked at in time
<est31> its ... experience
<est31> Son_Goku, what distro do you use?
<Son_Goku> Fedora and Mageia
<est31> Fedora and mageia have this issue as well
<est31> https://pkgs.org/search/irrlicht
<est31> but I know a mageia packager, I'll contact him as soon as I can reach him on irc
<Son_Goku> Akien?
<est31> yes :)
<Son_Goku> heh
<est31> how do you know
<Son_Goku> send him an email
<Son_Goku> Akien is the leader of the Mageia packagers
<Son_Goku> as well as one of the members of the Mageia.Org council
<est31> wow
<Son_Goku> and... he sent me a bugfix for lugaru several years ago :)
 * Son_Goku is the project admin for Lugaru
<Son_Goku> he won't be back on IRC until the 26th, but he's available via email
<Son_Goku> akien@mageia.org
<est31> good to know
<est31> thanks Son_Goku will write an email
<Son_Goku> as for Fedora...
<Son_Goku> irrlicht is maintained by Tom Calloway
<Son_Goku> send him an email at spot@fedoraproject.org
<est31> i dont care about fedora
 * Son_Goku shrugs
<est31> minetest is borken on wayland
<est31> fedora 25 ships with wayland per default
<est31> they ignored it
<Son_Goku> uhh
<Son_Goku> only one desktop environment uses wayland by default
<Son_Goku> that's gnome
<est31> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1277165
<ubottu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1277165 in wayland "[Wayland] Minetest no pointer lock" [High,New]
<Son_Goku> the rest of the desktops are using X
<Son_Goku> also, wayland is not likely to remain on through the end of f25 development
<est31> lets hope that.
<Son_Goku> and they're not gutting X support either
<Son_Goku> and it's also not being ignored, either
<Son_Goku> there's well over a dozen bugs related to that problem
<Son_Goku> it's going to get fixed as soon as the wayland folks agree on how to fix it
<est31> the only part that needs fixing is xwayland
<est31> at this point at least
 * Son_Goku shrugs
<est31> latest mutter stable release already has pointer locking, and confinement
<Son_Goku> just remember not to be mean and spiteful to all the fedora users just because of the gnome people
<Son_Goku> the community is much bigger than them
<Son_Goku> and spot is a good guy
<est31> okay, will drop him a mail
<Son_Goku> :D
<Son_Goku> we can all be friends, right? :)
<est31> Son_Goku, sometimes its hard to be sympathetic to all parts of the open source ecosystem
<est31> but you changed my mind about fedora at least
<Son_Goku> :)
<est31> (It was hard enough btw to convince irrlicht devs to do a release at all...)
<est31> :)
<pitti> Good morning
<tsimonq2> o/ pitti, how are you? :)
<pitti> tsimonq2: okayish, thanks (still have an annoying cold); how about you?
<tsimonq2> aww get better soon
<tsimonq2> I'm great :)
<Mirv> pitti: A server error occured. https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=yakkety&arch=i386&package=unity8&trigger=ubuntu-system-settings%2F0.4%2B16.10.20160817.2-0ubuntu1
<pitti> Mirv: hm, just worked for me
<pitti> Mirv: the logs show an SSL timeout
<pitti> so it appears to be spurious
<Mirv> (thank you)
<jamespage> slangasek, I've added aodh and barbican to the misc-servers seed so that they stick in main...
<jamespage> hey archive admins - could ovn-controller-vtep and python3-openvswitch be demoted to universe please -  neither should be in main for now
<pitti> jamespage: done (in y-proposed, the binaries only exist there)
<caribou> xnox: did you get a chance to look at LP: #1611133 since dragan-s uploaded the status files ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1611133 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "dpkg truncates lines in 'status' file which begin with two spaces." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611133
<xnox> caribou, no. Just opened good/bad files, they do look weird. (I was not subscribed to the bug, hence didn't get email notifications)
<jamespage> pitti, ta
<caribou> xnox: looking at it atm; the amount of 'corrupted' files is surprizing > 1000 in one file
<xnox> caribou, it does look bad. The diff between the two is not encouraging.
<xnox> i really hope it is not actually dpkg bug, but something/somewhere else that tries to parse status file. Because trivial precise debootstrap + upgrade did not reproduce this issue.
<caribou> xnox: I'm looking at precise's code to get a hang of dpkg's workflow
<xnox> the installation appears to be fairly bog standard: ubuntu-standard/minima/desktop
<xnox> caribou, first step can you reproduce the issue reliably? E.g. bootstrap/install from .0 iso, or just release archive. Install ubuntu-desktop. Upgrade to latest dpkg, then upgrade the world, then spot broken status file.
<xnox> if yes, buggy dpkg / libdpkg-perl or some such, otherwise something somewhere else.
<caribou> xnox: that'd be the easy way out ;-) it happens in an environment where Landscape Dedicated Service is in use
<xnox> caribou, wait a minute - does landscape-* stuff parses and/or writes and/or touches internal dpkg status file at all?
<caribou> xnox: so the archive is not our public archive but an LDS provided one built with reprepro
<xnox> is there a way to tell from the status files of any custom packages at all?
<caribou> xnox: I wouldn't think so; the broken status file is at the receiving end (i.e. the client)
<caribou> xnox: let me check on a few broken package
<xnox> somehow i would have thought the problem would be spotted / be more widespread than just one deployment if it was dpkg.
<xnox> however ubuntu-minimal description is borked.
<caribou> xnox: I see 650 of them, all standard Ubuntu packages
<caribou> xnox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23077770/
<caribou> xnox: FYI, the list I pasted is wrong, there are less corrupted packages than listed
<xnox> caribou, i pasted a diff with a lot of context to the bug report.
<xnox> it seems to show a few, and i guess we only need one package to be corrupted. E.g. "ubuntu-minimal" is corrupted.
<flexiondotorg> I removed mate-hud from the ubuntu-mate-core seeds and meta package last week. It needs more time to bake.
<flexiondotorg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-mate.yakkety/revision/113
<flexiondotorg> But it is still being seeded via germinate and is present in todays daily-live ISO.
<flexiondotorg> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu-mate.yakkety/core
<flexiondotorg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mate-meta/+changelog
<flexiondotorg> Have I overlooked something to ensure a package is no longer seeded in the Ubuntu MATE 16.10 images?
<sitter> popey: anyone from snappy coming to akademy/qtcon and possibly staying for discussions (Sept 5-8)? should we register a time slot?
<popey> sitter: i don't think there's snappy specific devs at qtcon/akademy. I think we do have *some* people going. Will find out who.
<cjwatson> flexiondotorg: Bodged for now, but the problem is apparently that somebody deleted lp:~ubuntu-gnome-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-gnome.vivid and that broke the update-seeds cron job.  Will need to investigate ...
<cjwatson> (I might just push my latest version back up.  Old seed branches aren't supposed to be deleted.)
<flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Thanks for the feedback.
<sitter> popey: I also got asked by a colleague who's working on plasma mobile whether someone from the touch team might be at qtcon :)
<Odd_Bloke> I'm comparing the initramfs of a cloud instance and of my laptop (both on the same xenial kernel); per lsinitramfs my laptop's contains fsck whereas the cloud instance does not.  I can't work out where this difference is coming from, having examined /{etc,usr/share}/initramfs-tools.  Where should I be looking to find it?
<pitti> Odd_Bloke: presumably because cloud instances disable fscking in fstab?
<pitti> Odd_Bloke: see /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/fsck
<pitti> s/?// (I know that cloud-init disable fscking partitions, and rightly so)
<pitti> cloud instances, I mean (not sure if it's actually cloud-init)
<Odd_Bloke> Aha, right.
<Odd_Bloke> OK, that makes sense.
<Odd_Bloke> Thanks!
<cjwatson> flexiondotorg: aha, I found https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-dev/+junk/ubuntu-gnome.vivid.  No idea how it got there (I have an IP address for the change but that doesn't tell me a whole lot).  Moved back to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-gnome.vivid where it belongs.
<flexiondotorg> Thanks for that.
<jbicha> cjwatson: I clicked the archive button for eol stuff at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ but I didn't otherwise move branches
<jbicha> sorry, not archive, I changed the branch status to "abandoned"
<cjwatson> jbicha: Yeah, Abandoned is fine, but somebody also changed the branch target to "Personal".  I changed it back
<jbicha> hmm, now that I think about it, that IP address might be familiar then but I don't remember what I might have clicked :(
<slangasek> jamespage: ok, thanks :)
<jamespage> slangasek, np - need to teach coreycb how todo that :-)
<jamespage> but he's not around today
<jamespage> ddellav, hey - I 'seeded' aodh and barbican packages - I'll grab you this week to explain how and what that means...
<xnox> "C++11 requires a space between literal and string macro" c++ FTBFS of the day.
<ddellav> jamespage ok, sounds good
<seb128> Laney, pitti, do we have a tag for systemd user session bugs?
<Laney> not that I know
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> Laney, bug #1615726 just for info then
<ubottu> bug 1615726 in gnupg2 (Ubuntu) "gpg-agent.service "Invalid escape sequences in line" warning" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615726
<Laney> feel free to invent one
<seb128> Laney, pitti, I tagged it systemd-user-session
<Laney> seb128: close: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=systemd-session
<Laney> :(
<seb128> oh, urg, renaming it!
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> pitti, bug #1484027 seems to still be there/be back on xenial and yakkety, should I reopen that one or open a new bug?
<ubottu> bug 1484027 in rsyslog (Ubuntu) "systemd-tmpfiles-clean warns about duplicate /var/log line" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1484027
<seb128> k, enough for today, have a nice evening everyone!
<pitti> seb128: right, I used that to correspond to our earlier systemd-boot tag
<pitti> seb128: ah, and now I got the notification -- I'm subscribed to the tag
<pitti> seb128: bonne soirÃ©e !
<pitti> pour moi aussi
<jbicha> cjwatson: I can confirm that germinate is working again for Ubuntu GNOME/yakkety
<aladdin> Hi
<aladdin> sorry to bother you
<aladdin>  it is possible to install unity8 currently with Yakkety  daily from today ?
<aladdin>  I got this error http://www.hastebin.com/jatizuraka.vhdl
<cjwatson> jbicha: good good, thanks
#ubuntu-devel 2016-08-23
<mwhudson> ENODOKO
<pitti> Good morning
<tsimonq2> o/ pitti
<pitti> hey tsimonq2, how are you?
<tsimonq2> great pitti, you?
<pitti> quite fine, thanks
<LocutusOfBorg> anybody willing to bootstrap fpc on powerpc?
<LocutusOfBorg> the issue that prevented installation seems fixed, but I have no knowledge/access to machines to test it
<LocutusOfBorg> infinity, ^^ :)
<LocutusOfBorg> BTW the fixed version is already in yakkety-proposed (in some seconds)
<Mirv> Does "Error in `/usr/bin/python': double free or corruption (out): 0x00003fff9c373c70" ring a bell? Seen on i386 and ppc64el autopkgtests (yade) after a successfull test run..
<flexiondotorg> Now we are in feature freeze for yakkety is syncing with Debian now stopped?
<ginggs_> flexiondotorg: yes, we are in debian-import-freeze as well, use 'requestsync'
<flexiondotorg> ginggs_, Yeah, I was just read the docs :-)
<cjwatson> Mirv: probably a bug in some extension or other
<mdeslaur> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Xenial (16.04.1) Released! | Archive: feature freeze | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-xenial | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: mdeslaur
<vooze> TheMuso: Hi, I wanted to hear if you wanted to test pulseaudio (bluetooth) with me? I haven't heard from you on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1574324 - You can also email me: joakimkoed@gmail.com if you want :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1574324 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "pulseaudio crashes when connecting to bluetooth headphones (due to ubuntu changes?)" [High,In progress]
<smoser> pitti, i see your name https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=809740 when digging on my related issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-images/+bug/1615751
<ubottu> Debian bug 809740 in src:initramfs-tools "initramfs-tools: Completely ignores rootdelay" [Important,Fixed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1615751 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu Yakkety) "ROOTDELAY= causes unnecessary delay in boot" [High,Confirmed]
<smoser> it seems now that ROOTDELAY=300 means "please do 'sleep 300' in initramfs". Where before, it meant to do 'wait-for-udev 300', which waited up to 300 seconds until the necessary device appeared.
<smoser> azure images have this rootdelay=300 cooked into them as it sometimes takes quite a while for azure disks to appear.  it used to mean that this worked well, now it means we sleep 300.
<flexiondotorg> Laney, now that I have PPU for a package set can I action my own sync requests for those packages?
<Laney> yes
<flexiondotorg> Excellent.
<flexiondotorg> Laney, So requestsync without -s will do the business?
<pitti> smoser: ah, I remember -- indeed, this rootdelay= thing is FUBAR; TBH I don't see how to salvage it to anything remotely useful
<pitti> smoser: IIRC, the problem was to define what "the necessary device" actually is
<pitti> i. e. not just waiting for the root device, which we've done with udev's wait-for-root since 2006 or so
<pitti> so if someone actually wants to use it, it's just a plain sleep(given_number) in the initramfs ATM, as there is no other definition of what it should do
<ginggs_> flexiondotorg: you should be able to use 'syncpackage' for packages you can upload
<flexiondotorg> ginggs_, Thanks. I'll read the man page now.
<pitti> smoser: anyway, if you want to kill that sleep from initramfs-tools again, you have my full blessing :)
<flexiondotorg> ginggs_, Thanks for the pointer. That was easy :-)
<ginggs_> flexiondotorg: yw
<Odd_Bloke> Is there a convention for where documentation about a package's packaging should live within the package?
<mgedmin> debian/README.source, I think
<Odd_Bloke> Ah, yeah, that looks like it.
<Odd_Bloke> mgedmin: Thanks. :)
<smoser> pitti, right..
<LocutusOfBorg> pitti, can you please run htslib testsuite of version 1.3.1-2ubuntu1 against python-pysam/proposed? thanks
<smoser> i dont understand why we dont use 'wait-for-root'
<smoser> and why debian doesnt use 'wait-for-root'
<smoser> do you know that answer to that ?
<cyphermox> juliank: hey; have you seen bug 1611010? I think there's an issue in apt in the pmstatus output, related to the changes to setting the locale
<ubottu> bug 1611010 in apt (Ubuntu) "yakkety desktop - non-english installation crashes with /plugininstall.py: ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611010
<juliank> cyphermox: Alright, I'll forward this to DonKult, he's tackling these locale bugs
<juliank> cyphermox: Or well, maybe the APT was too old. Need to check
<cyphermox> thanks
<juliank> I really hate locales
<juliank> The fault is probably the strprintf(status, "pmstatus:dpkg-exec:%.4f:%s\n",
<juliank> that's awkward
 * juliank wants locale free sprintf()
<juliank> Anyway, should be easy to fix
<coreycb> arges, bdmurray: hello, we could use a review of the openstack SRUs for bug 1614131 if you have a moment this week
<ubottu> bug 1614131 in nova (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] OpenStack Mitaka point releases" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1614131
<pitti> smoser: we *do* use wait-for-root
<smoser> well, sort of
<smoser> we use a '10' now
<smoser> we used to use ROOTDELAY
<pitti> smoser: Debian> presumably because it's linux specific and thus it wouldn't work under BSD; although ISTR that i-t has a shell polling loop for it which should roughly behave the same
<smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23081737/ <-- thats what i think to get it back to properly
<smoser> pitti, right. it has a shell polling loop
<smoser> and then (or before, i think actually) it does sleep $ROOTDELAY
<smoser> why? no clue.
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: I think you mean the other way around; done
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: but note that http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#python-pysam is depwait on i386, so that won't help on at least i386
<arges> coreycb: i can get to it tomorrow if tha'ts alwa6ys
<arges> alright
<LocutusOfBorg> pitti, not sure why archive admins didn't remove it yet
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: why remove?
<LocutusOfBorg> python-pysam NBS/i386?
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: why would it be removed? its depwait needs to be resolved
<coreycb> arges, that'd be great, thanks
<LocutusOfBorg> pitti, remove all the reverse-deps on i386 too? Debian seems to have done that AFAICS
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: hm, that's not quite obvious; mind filing a bug for it? (sorry, meeting now)
<LocutusOfBorg> yep thanks
<mdeslaur> @pilot out
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Xenial (16.04.1) Released! | Archive: feature freeze | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-xenial | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Xenial (16.04.1) Released! | Archive: feature freeze, beta 1 freeze | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-xenial | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
<infinity> LocutusOfBorg: Oh, nice.
<infinity> LocutusOfBorg: I'll rebootstrap in a bit.
 * tsimonq2 silently grumbles about the lack of capitalization in the topic
<LocutusOfBorg> infinity, I hope it is *really* fixed
<LocutusOfBorg> you might want to wait for elbrus to bootstrap it in Debian
<LocutusOfBorg> as you wish
<LocutusOfBorg> I don't want to have you loose time
<infinity> LocutusOfBorg: It'll be trivial to do.  Also, lose, not loose. :P
<LocutusOfBorg> true ;)
<infinity> (pet peeve)
<LocutusOfBorg> what is "trivial" for you, is impossible for me
<LocutusOfBorg> and I would like to learn/have access to machines
<LocutusOfBorg> debian porterboxes don't allow to install stuff as root
<infinity> Installing as root wouldn't be strictly necessary for this.
<LocutusOfBorg> mmm how? fpc needs fpc
<LocutusOfBorg> or you want to cross compile it?
<infinity> Sure, but you start with a chroot that has a glibc that doesn't break fpc.
<LocutusOfBorg> and how do you test the built binaries on a real powerpc machine?
<infinity> Then build the new one.
<LocutusOfBorg> ok but debian has pre-built chroots
<infinity> Yeah, use jessie.
<LocutusOfBorg> mmm ok
<LocutusOfBorg> and then upgrade the chroot to stretch?
<LocutusOfBorg> or save the built binaries, unpack them and run ./fpcmk whatever fails
<LocutusOfBorg> I did that when debugging it
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks for trying it then
<LocutusOfBorg> I trust more your checks rather than mine ;)
 * LocutusOfBorg leaves
<bdmurray> pitti, barry, mvo: Do you know enough about aptdaemon to figure out what's going wrong here? https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/fc13839a8f16399991b1e1907d410c7f161d7fc9
<barry> bdmurray: i don't but i did notice a warning about xenial hwe eol on a server of mine
<bdmurray> barry: I added that stuff to Trusty and update-manager is crashing with the above a lot.
<barry> bdmurray: offhand, no idea, sorry
<bdmurray> barry: okay, thanks
<lamont> it would appear that the yakkety virt-viewer has decided that it should, by damn, take focus every time there's a change in the screen.  Any clues on how to correct this utterly antisocial and stupid behavior on its part, other than "close the window"?
<infinity> My PowerStation just decided it doesn't have a root filesystem.  That's not ideal.
<lamont> infinity: you win on the suckitude scale
<mvo> bdmurray: it smeels like a package dependencies problem, maybe something with libgl1-mesa-glx-lts-xenial: on trusty, e.g. if universe is missing or somesuch
<bdmurray> mvo: universe missing - that sounds like a good lead.  Is there any way to get more information out of aptdaemon?
<mvo> bdmurray: hm, in a trusty chroot I get a similar error "# apt install xserver-xorg-lts-xenial"
<mvo> bdmurray: that is even with universe
<mvo> bdmurray: so maybe something broken in the backport?
<bdmurray> mvo: hmm, I did lots of HWE upgrade testing w/o a problem.
<mvo> bdmurray: no idea, I just did a pbuilder-dist xenial login and sudo apt update; sudo apt install xserver-xorg-lts-xenial
<infinity> xnox: -updates should be fixed on mirrors in a couple of hours.
<xnox> infinity, \o/
<xnox> you are full of win =)
<infinity> I'm full of something.
<coreycb> arges, when you do the openstack review for me, can you reject the older uploads of nova/keystone/cinder from the review queue?  I just re-uploaded with the correct bug #.
<arges> coreycb: ok
<coreycb> arges, thanks
<arges> coreycb: ok all set
<infinity> xnox:
<infinity> sower@z13-001:~$ apt-cache show s390-tools | grep ^Support
<infinity> Supported: 5y
<infinity> Supported: 9m
<infinity> xnox: So, updates fixed, I'll worry about release later.
<infinity> juliank: What did you do to python-apt?
<infinity> juliank: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23083200/
<infinity> Or is that internal to apt-listchanges?  Hrm.
<juliank> We never had a read_changelog
<infinity> Yeah, maybe I should blame doko's last apt-listchanges upload. :P
<Unit193> I hit that too, but not in Debian. >_>
<infinity> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23083202/ definitely looks to be the culprit.
<infinity> Might have been renamed to _read_changelog
<infinity> Because reasons.
 * infinity tests.
<LocutusOfBorg> sigh pitti , seems cython autopkgtestsuite has the same issues
<LocutusOfBorg> autopkgtest for python-pysam/0.7.7-1ubuntu1: amd64: Test in progress, i386: Test in progress, ppc64el: Regression â»
<LocutusOfBorg> maybe we can just ignore them?
<infinity> juliank: Right, I blamed the wrong person, sorry. ;)
<LocutusOfBorg> infinity, how did the fpc bootstrap go?
<infinity> LocutusOfBorg: Not started yet.
<LocutusOfBorg> oh... ok :) I sent a mail to Paul, in case he has something to share
<LocutusOfBorg> I'll try now
<infinity> Unit193: Fixes uploaded.
<Unit193> infinity: Thanks very much, sir!
<infinity> Unit193: We may be in the short list of people who use apt-listchanges. :P
<Unit193> This is very true, I don't even have it prompt me after displaying, like you have.
<infinity> Unit193: I rarely need to say no, but when I do, it's quite valuable.
<infinity> Unit193: But such is the life of a core-dev in a devel series, I guess.  Sometimes, I see a changelog and go "wait, they did WHAT?!" and investigate (and maybe fix) before upgrading.
<Unit193> infinity: Yeah I'm just a lowly flavor Dev, so can't fix things first.  Best I can do is hold it a bit. :P
#ubuntu-devel 2016-08-24
<kulelu88> Hello. Can I ask questions about package development here?
<pitti> Good morning
<kulelu88> morning Pici
<kulelu88> pitti:
<kulelu88> does this file tell ubuntu what the dependencies of a package are: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/apt-clone/trunk/view/head:/debian/control ?
<dax> yes
<dax> see e.g. http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-controlfields.html for details
<kulelu88> dax: This is probably off-topic, but nobody in #ubuntu is answering me. for the apt-clone software, does it clone the archived packages also?
<dax> no idea, never used apt-clone :\
<kulelu88> okay thank you, that is all I wanted to ask
<MEJIOMAH17> Hi! I write app on java for ubuntu unity 16.04.   Standard class SystemTray provide terrible result. Is there a native library for java to work with Tray?
<juliank> A fixed apt should be ready in about 30 minutes, it's currently running its test suite on travis. Is that still early enough for the beta 1? If not, I'd delay it and sync the next RC instead
<juliank> ~rc2ubuntu3 only has the emergency fixes of ~rc3 basically
<juliank> Or well, we can fix it anyway, then I can delay ~rc3 a bit to get the portability fixes in
 * juliank is porting APT to FreeBSD. This involves including a few more headers that are currently missing, some library magic (only use -lresolv and -ldl if the exist, add -lintl), some header magic (endian.h vs sys/endian.h), and a few test suite fixes. Really boring nitpicking kind of work
<juliank> (The freebsd port also fixes a bug if you make your /bin/sh bash - stupid dashism in the test suite)
<juliank> One thing I noticed today: dpkg-genchanges only seems to register "LP: #number", not "LP: number"
<juliank> One APT team member has the tendency to write bug numbers without a #
<pitti> right, LP: NNNN is not valid (unlike Closes: nnn for debbugs)
<juliank> Yeah, maybe gbp should be teached to fix that up if it sees no #
<juliank> So, large file support seems restored in apt 1.3~rc2ubuntu3, but testing can't hurt, obviously
<juliank> It's 150 lines of awesome CMake code doing the detection of LFS flags.
<juliank> For the platforms I test with, 2 lines would have been fine as well...
<juliank> This looks a bit scary: dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: symbol __aeabi_atexit@CXXABI_ARM_1.3.3 used by debian/libapt-inst2.0/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libapt-inst.so.2.0.0 found in none of the libraries
<mwhudson> uh huh
<mwhudson> sbuild -d sid has stopped working for me
<mwhudson> dpkg-deb: building package 'sbuild-build-depends-core-dummy' in '/<<BUILDDIR>>/resolver-f_CDlo/apt_archive/sbuild-build-depends-core-dummy.deb'.
<mwhudson> gpg: /<<BUILDDIR>>/resolver-f_CDlo/gpg/trustdb.gpg: trustdb created
<mwhudson> gpg: Warning: not using 'Sbuild Signer' as default key: No secret key
<mwhudson> oh it's the gnupg2 thing
<mwhudson> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=827315
<ubottu> Debian bug 827315 in src:sbuild "sbuild: Does not work with gnupg 2.x installed in the chroot" [Important,Fixed]
<LocutusOfBorg> but I merged sbuild mwhudson
<LocutusOfBorg> are you using the one from xenial?
<mwhudson> yeah i'm on xenial
<LocutusOfBorg> mmm ok :)
<LocutusOfBorg> you might want to try a backport of the yakkety version then ;)
<mwhudson> yeah, or apparently remove /var/lib/sbuild/apt-keys ?
<mwhudson> that appears to work, will it bite me in the bum when i try to build for trusty or something?
<LocutusOfBorg> not sure...
<LocutusOfBorg> I don't even remember the fix
 * mwhudson tries science
<LocutusOfBorg> https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/buildd-tools/sbuild.git/commit/?h=debian/unstable&id=8bc84e14f0bc5fda075925ba4abbc644c1c4f2ec
<LocutusOfBorg> +	    $self->log_error("To fix this problem, either (if you don't need squeeze):\n");
<LocutusOfBorg> there is a log error now, explaining how to fix
<mwhudson> sbuild -d trusty seems to be working with no /var/lib/sbuild/apt-keys
<mwhudson> haha
<LocutusOfBorg> everything shoudl work without that directory...
<LocutusOfBorg> just the new sbuild throws an error in case the directory is here but gnupg is not working
<LocutusOfBorg> saying something like "hey, delete that dir"
<LocutusOfBorg> infinity, I'm doing some work, I think I found some sort of "solution" for fpc
<infinity> LocutusOfBorg: The solution is for me to bootstrap it...
<infinity> LocutusOfBorg: Please don't do something hackish.
<infinity> juliank: That eabi warning is harmless.  There's already a filter for those symbols, it might just need updating.
<LocutusOfBorg> infinity, the problem is that the fix seems to be not working
<infinity> LocutusOfBorg: Oh.
<infinity> LocutusOfBorg: Well, that's less ideal.
<infinity> LocutusOfBorg: Will talk more after I've slept a bit.
<juliank> infinity: Oh, OK
<LocutusOfBorg> I copy-pasted fpcsrc/utils/fpcmkcfg/fpcmkcfg.pp from fpc 2.6.4, rebuilt fpc 3 with it and everything works
<LocutusOfBorg> so, I'm debugging that file right now
<cpaelzer> can I somewhere see the queue of things waiting to get their autopkgtest ran for proposed migration to get a feeling for the "ETA" of an upload to be processed in that regard?
 * cpaelzer searching around at http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/ if there is a queue somewhere
<cpaelzer> ah, sorry for the noise - found http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.shtml which kind of is what I wanted
<abeato> pitti, hi, do you know any reason for which a crash file might not contain the CoreDump field?
<pitti> abeato: the reason should be in /var/log/apport.log; the most common one is that it was too big to handle
<abeato> pitti, hm, interesting... how is decided that it is too big? avaialble space?
<pitti> abeato: > Â¾ of available RAM
<abeato> pitti, I see, thanks. I guess that can happen easily in touch
<LocutusOfBorg> tumbleweed, mind syncing rails?
<LocutusOfBorg> I think ruby-swd needs it
<JHOSMAN> Hello, has anyone here worked with compiling Ubuntu ISO images with support UEFI?
<pitti> they already do
<JHOSMAN> pitti: i not understand your reply
<pitti> JHOSMAN: ubuntu isos have supported UEFI for a long time already
<JHOSMAN> yes i know
<JHOSMAN> I tell you, I'm making an ISO Unattended Ubuntu, but I can not make it do the UEFI boot
<JHOSMAN> A normal iso says this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23084984/
<JHOSMAN> My iso make unnatended says: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23084986/
<JHOSMAN> in mode EFI active in bios, the iso says BosyBox and the install not running, in mode legacy run OK.
<JHOSMAN> pitti: You have a guide who can share me to perform an unattended installation with Ubuntu 14.04? Perhaps I may be doing something wrong.
<pitti> I don't know the intrinsics of how the official images are built, sorry
<JHOSMAN> A channel or person that could refer?
<arges> coreycb: did openstack packages in xenial get accidentally uploaded again?
<coreycb> arges, hopefully not.  I think you rejected everything in the queue yesterday so I uploaded again.
<arges> coreycb: i did, then i accepted teh packages yesterday
<arges> then this morning there are new uploads
 * coreycb looks
<coreycb> arges, ok everything's in proposed that should be so can you reject those from the queue?  sorry about that.
<arges> coreycb: ok will do
<coreycb> arges, thanks :)
<arges> coreycb: done.
<jbicha> juliank: do we need today's apt update in Beta 1 or is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/16.10.8 enough?
<juliank> jbicha: I'd recommend it. There are issues with apt if you use --purge,  it also has no support for large files which is like a huge regression from xenial.
<juliank> Possibly even without --purge, I'm not entirely sure
<juliank> the configures were ordered wrongly with regards to the removals in some way
<seb128> hum
<seb128> wgrant, pitti, dpm, it looks like we didn't have any langpack update in yakkety yet, do you know what needs to be done there?
<seb128> would have been nice before beta1
<seb128> but I doubt we are going to get those now, even less of a respin
<dpm> seb128, let me see if langpacks are being generated in LP for Yakketty
<seb128> dpm, thanks
<seb128> dpm, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety/+language-packs seems to suggest that not?
<dpm> seb128, hm, looking at it from a private browser window, seems like yakkety's translations haven't been open in LP
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> dpm, is that a launchpad team thing?
<dpm> seb128, for the opening itself, they generally do the copying of templates from the previous series before opening
<dpm> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety/+translations-admin
<dpm> so IIRC 1) LP team copies over templates 2) "Defer translation imports" is unchecked 3) Review if the templates look fine 4) Uncheck "Hide translations for this release"
<dpm> cjwatson, wgrant, could you help us initiating the LP translations opening process for yakkety?
<tjaalton> mdeslaur: hi, do you have plans to merge sudo? I got pinged about bug 1607666 which is fixed in 1.8.17
<ubottu> bug 1607666 in sudo (Ubuntu) "sudo fails with host netgroup returned from freeipa" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1607666
<mdeslaur> tjaalton: I wasn't planning on merging it
<mdeslaur> tjaalton: if you get an ffe exception approved, I'll do it though
<tjaalton> mdeslaur: ok
<bipul> Hi. I need a help. On ubuntu my traditional permission is not working, specially chgrp and chown
<sladen> bipul: what do you mean by "is not working".  Is an error message shown
<bipul> chgrp: changing group of 'A/': Operation not permitted
<bipul> sladen, http://paste.ubuntu.net/23085951/
<sladen> bipul: does that account have permission to change the group
<bipul> I guess yes, since bipul is the owner of the file.
<sladen> bipul: is the account a member of the destination group?
<sladen> bipul: try running 'groups'
<sarnold> bipul: you ran 'id bipul' -- about a bare 'id'? if there are two bipul accounts on the system, that could account for these confusing results
<bipul> sladen, strange i don't found that name in groups
<sarnold> bipul: how about on other filesystems? do you have other filesystems mounted that you could check?
<bipul> bipul@bipul:~$ cat /etc/group | grep controller
<bipul> controller:x:1005:bipul
<bipul> but when i typing groups, i don't found controller there.
<bipul> sarnold, No i don't have any other file system mounted
<sladen> bipul: in which case either do  sudo chgrp controller A/    or   sudo addser bipul controller ; chgrp controller A/
<bipul> sladen, Why would i do "sudo" when i am the owner of the directory. And i have controller as a supplementary group.
<bipul> I already run sudo usermod -aG controller bipul
<sarnold> did you use newgrp or sg to get that group added to that specific shell instance? or login afresh?
<bipul> sarnold, Yes, that's what i am doing, i am restarting my machine.
<bipul> between i  have created controller 2 days ago and i booted my system 9 times
<bipul> let me restart.
<bipul> Yes, it works.
<mwhudson> in an autopkgtest is there any way for the test to get hold of the debs that were installed?
<mwhudson> i guess the test can just build them, given appropriate depends/restrictions
#ubuntu-devel 2016-08-25
<Unit193> Well that's interesting, same upstream version of webkitgtk in both Xenial and Yakkety, but an application only segfaults on the latter (and unstable.)
<pitti> Good morning
<tsimonq2> o/ pitti
<jbicha> pitti: good morning
<tsimonq2> o/ jbicha
<jbicha> the autopkgtest machines seem to be having trouble :(
<pitti> hey tsimonq2, hello jbicha
<tsimonq2> how are you pitti?
<pitti> jbicha: indeed, I have lots of worker failure mails in my mbox :(
<pitti> Welcome to [1mUbuntu 16.10[0m!
<pitti> [    2.184796] systemd[1]: Set hostname to <16fad193-3c64-481d-9183-e3a7910315d0-adt-prepare>.
<pitti> [    2.218417] systemd[1]: unhandled signal 4 at 0000000023c6f370 nip 0000000023c6f370 lr 0000000023c721f4 code 30001
<pitti> [    2.218730] systemd[1]: Caught <ILL>, core dump failed (child 553, code=killed, status=4/ILL).
<pitti> !healthy :(
<pitti> lcy and lgw often time out but at least caught up, but ppc64 is FUBAR
<pitti> tracking in bug 1616743, FTR
<ubottu> bug 1616743 in cloud-images "yakkety 20160824 ppc64el images crash init" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1616743
<pitti> ok, they are catching up
<LocutusOfBorg> pitti, hi, you seem the best person to ask removal of runit-sysv package :) described in lp: #1595485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1595485 in fpc (Ubuntu) "packages to remove from yakkety" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1595485
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: it only exists in yakkety-proposed, got reintroduced in your merge :)
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: current version just builds runit
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: so the merge needs to be updated to drop that binary, then it'll be NBS and get removed semi-automatically
<LocutusOfBorg> pitti, I don't get, yes I have introduced it, but it failed to migrate because the runtime dependency was dropped in Ubuntu
<LocutusOfBorg> so I removed it again
<LocutusOfBorg> but now it is NBS, but not autodecrufted
<LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/runit/2.1.2-6ubuntu1
<LocutusOfBorg> yes, you have to remove it only from proposed, this is true
<LocutusOfBorg> and the latest merge is not building it anymore, from my point of view
<infinity> pitti: NBS in proposed isn't tracked by anything but britney.
 * infinity fixes.
<infinity> LocutusOfBorg: Removed.
 * infinity goes to bed for realz.
<LocutusOfBorg> have a good night infinity :)
<LocutusOfBorg> and thanks
<mardy> yofel: hi! Do you think you could help with pushing the fix for bug 1451728?
<ubottu> bug 1451728 in kaccounts-integration (Ubuntu) "[master] kde-config-telepathy-accounts package install error" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1451728
<yofel> if someone gives me ready made debdiffs for what I'm supposed to upload, maybe yes
<seb128> dpm, hey, did you get any news from wgrant/cjwatson/pitti about langpacks in yakkety?
<dpm> hi seb128, no, I didn't
<seb128> :-(
<cjwatson> it does need to be set up per https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/Translations/UbuntuOpenings, I just haven't had time
<cjwatson> (and won't this week)
<seb128> cjwatson, ok, thanks ... can somebody else do that?
<cjwatson> William may have time, I don't know
<seb128> k
<seb128> let's see if he replies
<pitti> mwhudson: still here?
<LocutusOfBorg> pitti, will pthon-pysam run for cython on amd64/proposed aswell? I see it in ppc64el, but not amd64
<LocutusOfBorg> strange
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: kicked; pysam/i386 can't succeed as it isn't built any more; I'll sort that out once the rest of the tests get green
<LocutusOfBorg> ta
<LocutusOfBorg> pysam/armhf seems to have the same issue
<LocutusOfBorg> and cbsuite/i386
<pitti> slangasek, xnox: are there some tricks how to debug shutdown problems with upstart? I tried to run upstart-monitor (http://paste.ubuntu.com/23088846/), but this doesn't really tell me anything; after "reboot" it stops some stuff, but ssh etc. continues to run and it does not really reboot
<xnox> running upstart in debug mode, and capturing console log is one way to do it.
<pitti> if I stop /etc/init/systemd.conf manually there are no processes left, but it still doesn't shut down; so I figure starting the deputy systemd in trusty chagnes the system state somehow, but I don't know enough about how shutdown works with upstart to say which, I'm afraid
<xnox> pitti, upstart doesn't do shutdown....
<xnox> after it's done, it hands over to sysvinit to shutdown everything.
<xnox> i'm guessing you will nit init.d script to stop subordinate systemd.
<pitti> xnox: well, it should at least stop all jobs, no?
<xnox> i'm guessing you will need init.d script to stop subordinate systemd.
<pitti> xnox: that's not it -- as I said, I already ran "initctl stop systemd" and everythign is gone
<xnox> nah, it doesn't stop all the jobs.... only those with "stop on" conditions
<pitti> and after that, reboot just does http://paste.ubuntu.com/23088846/ but http://paste.ubuntu.com/23088865/ is still left
 * xnox re-reads
<pitti> xnox: a lot of things are "stop on stopping dbus", dbus itself is "stop on deconfiguring-networking"; all of these are still running
 * xnox did say "init.d" script to stop systemd, not "init" - upstart job. probably sysvinit killall is failing to killall, and things have respawned or some such.
<xnox> pitti, is there a way for me to get trusty VM with such systemd-delegate in an easy manner?
<pitti> xnox: yes; let me upload the current git to a PPA
<pitti> xnox: I used "autopkgtest-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud -r trusty" to build a trusty VM, and then scp over the .debs; dpkg -iO *.deb, then install libsystemd-journal0.deb and systemd.deb, that's it
<pitti> building in https://launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/ubuntu/systemd/+packages now
<xnox> cool, tah.
<pitti> if your local sbuild can beat it, it's in https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+git/systemd-trusty :)
<pitti> xnox: so, sometimes I notice that the deputy systemd changes utmp and then runlevel is "unknown"; but it also hangs if it is 2 as expected, so that's not it either
<xnox> meh, i'm currently in round 2 match against juju reactive layers =)
<pitti> xnox: ah, it finished building
<LocutusOfBorg> pitti, I think you can ignore python-pysam failing testsuites now?
<pitti> rharper: hm, do you still remember how you did DHCP over VLAN? I'm trying to run dnsmasq on a vlan interface and it jusjt fails with "no such interface" although it clearly exists in "ip a" and /sys/class/net
<pitti> and that has poor google juice :/
<rharper> pitti: it was done with switched based vlans
<pitti> rharper: this is mostly for writing a more demanding test case; my current integration test case just adds static addresses and works, but I thought I'd give it a try
<rharper> pitti: does it show up under ifconfig or ip list ? (the interface?)
<rharper> the ip output shows interface-name@vlan_raw_interface
<pitti> 115: nptestsrv@veth43: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN group default qlen 1000
<pitti>     link/ether ca:d8:4f:d0:f1:9e brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
<pitti> oh, it's DOWN -- that's not good I think
<rharper> and you're telling dnsmasq interface is 'ntptestsrv' right ?
<rharper> versus ntptestsrv@veth43
<pitti> right
<rharper> huh
<pitti> dnsmasq --keep-in-foreground --log-queries --log-facility=- --log-queries --conf-file=/dev/null --dhcp-leasefile=/tmp/l  --bind-interfaces --interface=nptestsrv --except-interface=lo --enable-ra --dhcp-range=192.168.5.10,192.168.5.200
<pitti> rharper: anyway, for my other test interfaces I up them first and give them some IP, I forgot to do that for this one
<pitti> rharper: so, probably just PEBCAK, and the usual "find the reason right after you ask in public"
<rharper> pitti: =)
 * pitti is still amazed how often this works -- enlightenment through embarrasment
<pitti> rharper: works like a charm \o/
<rharper> nice!
<pitti> which is a cooler test than with static addresses :)
<infinity> pitti: I'm not sure if it's enlightenment through embarrasment or just putting yourself in another mindset by asking the question.
<infinity> pitti: I find asking leads me to the answer myself surprisingly often.
<pitti> infinity: in a lot of cases it's actually that
<pitti> not for this case, I just spotted what I previously didn't look at
<infinity> pitti: It's also a weird skill not everyone has.   The above example specifically, actually.
<infinity> pitti: Commonly, you'll find yourself pasting a log or typescript saying "LOOK, IT DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE... Oh.  Hah.  I can read, really."
<infinity> pitti: Lots of people seem to be incapable of spotting the error on countless reads.
<pitti> we call  that "Scheuklappen-Effect" ("blinker effect")
<infinity> Germans really do have a word for everything.
<pitti> not sure if "blinker" is right, the things that horses wear on their eyes
<infinity> Blinders.
<pitti> you look at one thing from one angle for so long that you forget other perspectives
<infinity> Akin to tunnel vision.
<pitti> right, that
<infinity> They say English is the most expressive language (and with the number of languages we've ripped off, we bloody well should be), but no one seems to come up with nouns and noun phrases that describe precise situations and emotions as well as Germans.
<pitti> we can build arbitrarily long words :)
<infinity> That's probably it.  You can turn a noun phrase into a single noun.
<infinity> And we're stuck with the phrase.
<infinity> So, an English idiom is a German word.
<pitti> and I now learned how vlans work
<pitti> they are a thing now in netplan for networkd; now off to teach it the equivalent thing for NM
<infinity> I still say Fausthandschuhe is my favourite German word.
<pitti> actually no -- off to making dinner
<infinity> Just the absurdity of it.
<pitti> infinity: wow, that's the weirdest one you found?
<infinity> pitti: No, there are much weirder, but I love the literal derivation of that one.
<infinity> Gloves are hand shoes.  And mittens are fist hand shoes.
<tsimonq2> LOL that translates to "mittens"
<infinity> tsimonq2: Yes. :)
<infinity> tsimonq2: Literally "fist hand shoes".
<tsimonq2> so complicated for that word that's kinda little in English
<tsimonq2> LOL
<pitti> oh, wow -- so far I had interpreted "mitten" as a thick glove you use for taking things out of the oven
<ogra_> hmm, now that talk about vlan made me hungry ... (reminding me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vla )
<infinity> pitti: That's a mitt.  Confusingly enough, we have a distinction.
<Laney> Oven glove
<infinity> pitti: Mitts are thick mittens used for things like ovens and baseball.
<pitti> ogra_: yummy
<infinity> pitti: Mittens are winter clothing without fingers.
<tsimonq2> http://img.ctrlv.in/img/16/08/25/57bf1507aa7ed.png
<nacc> mdeslaur: re: LP: #1612089, based upon the last comment, do we need to do a revert in the cloud-archive version too?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1612089 in Ubuntu Cloud Archive "Fix for CVE-2016-5403 causes crash on migration if memory stats are enabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1612089
<mdeslaur> nacc: yes, the regression is being worked on on qemu-devel
<mdeslaur> nacc: no fix yet besides the revert
<nacc> mdeslaur: right, i meant more if you already had a handle on the cloud-archive revert, or if i should follow up on that myself )
<mdeslaur> nacc: I don't touch the cloud-archive
<nacc> mdeslaur: ok :)
<mdeslaur> nacc: thanks
<nacc> jgrimm: --^ who should i follow up with?
<jgrimm> nacc, jamespage or coreycb
<nacc> jgrimm: ack, thanks
<jgrimm> np
<nacc> jamespage: coreycb: just fyi, re: LP: #1612089, i'm trying to find the changelog for that version mentioned in c7, but it might need the same revert done in the primary archive
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1612089 in Ubuntu Cloud Archive "Fix for CVE-2016-5403 causes crash on migration if memory stats are enabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1612089
<nacc> coreycb: i think it was your upload based upon https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cloud-archive/+archive/ubuntu/liberty-staging/+packages?field.name_filter=qemu&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter= and the solution is to disable debian/patches/CVE-2016-5403.patch. Do you want a patch for that?
<ubottu> The virtqueue_pop function in hw/virtio/virtio.c in QEMU allows local guest OS administrators to cause a denial of service (memory consumption and QEMU process crash) by submitting requests without waiting for completion. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2016-5403)
<coreycb> nacc, I'll handle the cloud archive bits, thanks for the nudge
<nacc> coreycb: thanks!
<nacc> jgrimm: afaict, with that --^, we can unsub ubuntu-server from the bug, right?
<jgrimm> nacc, i guess, tho we don't usually, just let it ride out to closure
<nacc> jgrimm: oh ok
#ubuntu-devel 2016-08-26
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> @pilot in
* udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Xenial (16.04.1) Released! | Archive: feature freeze, beta 1 freeze | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-xenial | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: pitti
<sarnold> "beta 1 freeze" still? I tohught the beta1 announcement was already sent?
* pitti changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Xenial (16.04.1) Released! | Archive: feature freeze | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-xenial | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: pitti
<pitti> sarnold: right, I guess it was just forgotten to be changed; done
<sarnold> thanks pitti :) guten morgen :)
<pitti> sarnold: good evening to you!
<sarnold> thank you :)
<LocutusOfBorg> pitti, hi, please skip fpc/armhf testsuite and python-pysam where it failed? thanks
<LocutusOfBorg> fpc-armhf can be ignored because it isn't a regression in the current fpc
<LocutusOfBorg> and pysam... NBS
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks
<tjaalton> sigh.. anyone managed to mount zfs filesystems with schroot/sbuild
<tjaalton> ?
<tjaalton> for some reason it fails to bind-mount them
<tjaalton> nevermind, looks like it uses sbuild/fstab with schroot as well..
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: wb
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: fpc hint updated, pysam hint added, both landed now
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#iva needs actual code changes (not build on the removed architectures)
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks
<LocutusOfBorg> pitti, isn't this just a removal on i386?
<LocutusOfBorg> it will bd-uninstallable without code changes
<pitti> ah, does it b-dep on python3-pysam?
<pitti> so it does
<pitti> ok
<pitti> done
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks, I was wondering about ENOCOFFEE from my side :)
<LocutusOfBorg> Unit193, I don't think we have need to have an ext-pack vbox downloader
<LocutusOfBorg> the PUEL license is the same as guest-additions-iso, why should the package be different?
<LocutusOfBorg> I prefer it in non-free with the actual stuff inside the deb, to avoid proxy issues and similar
<LocutusOfBorg> pitti, autopkgtestsuite broken again? Error reading configuration: FAKEROOT binary 'fakeroot' does not exist or is not executable at /usr/share/perl5/Sbuild/Conf.pm line 75.
<LocutusOfBorg> (sbuild testsuite fails)
<ogra_> tseliot, do you have a hint for zyga for bug 1615248 ?
<ubottu> bug 1615248 in Snappy Launcher "ubuntu-core-launcher nvidia driver detection is bogus" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615248
<ogra_> (i guess there is a tool you can use to find the running driver)
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: maybe, missing package dependency?
<LocutusOfBorg> pitti, isn't fakeroot something installed by default?
<LocutusOfBorg> at least it was until two days ago
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: certainly not, it's a developer package
<pitti> maybe some dependency got dropped somewhere?
<LocutusOfBorg> mmm ok, so lets add it
<LocutusOfBorg> not in sbuild package
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: sbuild recommends it, maybe the test should get Restrictions: needs-recommends?
<LocutusOfBorg> but why the previous version was working?
<LocutusOfBorg> Merged Build-Depends: build-essential, fakeroot
<LocutusOfBorg> Filtered Build-Depends: build-essential, fakeroot
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: the version in -proposed adds the check, maybe it just ignored its absence before?
<pitti> LocutusOfBorg: previous versions installed fakeroot into the debootstrap, not into the "outer" test VM
<LocutusOfBorg> oh indeed
<LocutusOfBorg> so, how to add it?
<pitti> so apparently that new test is not really necessary, as you can use sbuild/schroot without fakeroot
<pitti> or, if it was added for some reason, the Recommends: needs to be bumped to Depends:
<pitti> looks to me like an actual packaging bug -- adding fakeroot to test dependencies would merely paper over it
<LocutusOfBorg> moved to -devel (debian)
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks
<LocutusOfBorg> patch ongoing, uploading shortly
<LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, syncpackage libraw -s costamagnagianfranco please?
<tseliot> ogra_, zyga: I'll have a look at it
<ogra_> thanks ...
<ginggs> pitti: should i sync things like mutt and libraw during beta freeze, even thought they are seeded?
<pitti> ginggs: we aren't in beta freeze any more
<pitti> ginggs: also, even if we were, uploads/syncs are now always safe as we block promotion from -proposed in a freeze, not uploads
<ginggs> pitti: ok, thanks!
<LocutusOfBorg> can we maybe change the manpage? :)
<Unit193> LocutusOfBorg: See Â§2 though.
<LocutusOfBorg> Unit193, where?
<LocutusOfBorg> 2 has a part that is virtualbox-guest-additions only
<Unit193> https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL Exactly, the part where they allow you to distribute it.
<LocutusOfBorg> you right
<Unit193> Otherwise, yeah non-free is so much better than a downloader (see adobe-flashplugin vs whatever the current downloader is.)
<LocutusOfBorg> oh bad sbuild, you green now
<tseliot> ogra_, zyga: I've just posted a solution in the bug report
<powersj> Yakkety server ISO seems to have packages ending with "*.ude" in pool/main/l/linux
<powersj> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23093622/
<nacc> powersj: are they .udeb ?
<powersj> nacc, suppose to be - package search downloads them as .udeb
<nacc> maybe they are meant to be, rather
<nacc> powersj: ack
<cjwatson> We used to get that sometimes when we hit a length limit in one of the weird CDish filesystem formats.
<cjwatson> Probably triggered by the >2-digit ABI number here ...
<cjwatson> (Though actually some of them need more characters than that)
<nacc> yeah, that seems likely in this case
<powersj> so filing a bug against the source package (linux) doesn't seem like the right thing, does it?
<cjwatson> I'm not sure it can be fixed anywhere else in reality
<cjwatson> Though you could see if anyone more up-to-date on cdimage stuff can think of something
<cjwatson> It'll be somewhere in the overlap of ubuntu-cdimage, the linux source package, and the debian-installer source package
<nacc> powersj: in theory, that 9134 naming will go away sooner or later
<nacc> but it should probably be fixed still (or maybe be a warning somehwere?)
<powersj> sounds like a good test would be to verify # of files in pool == # *.deb + # *.udeb
<nacc> powersj: seems like a reasonable sanity check
<infinity> If adding two characters to a filename is breaking CDs, we have a problem. :P
<infinity> Especially since we have flavours longer than '-generic'
<infinity> Also, that's even sketchier, given then file before the extension is also cut off.
<infinity> powersj: How did you mount that ISO?
<nacc> infinity: good point
<powersj> 7z x -y yakkety-server-amd64 *.iso
<infinity> Not sure I trust 7z to be reading the right filesystem.
<infinity> Try "sudo mount -o loop foo.iso mountpoint/" and look inside?
<powersj> sure
<infinity> There are several filesystems overlaid in ISOs, from vfatish to rockridge to... Misc.  I forget all the weird ways names get mangled.
<infinity> There might even be an 8.3 FAT hidden in there.
<infinity> But mounting it should give sane filenames.
<powersj> that seems to have fixed it
<infinity> So, call that a 7z bug, not an ISO bug. :)
<powersj> yep! thx
<nacc> heh
<infinity> iso9660 + extensions is really weird.
<cjwatson> Rock Ridge + Joliet, I believe.
<infinity> And by "really weird", I mean "a complete mess".
<infinity> cjwatson: And Joliet is effectively a vfatish emulation, right?  Not actually case sensitive, n-char limit, etc.
<ogra_> well, just another 10 years and CDs will have gonne the way of the floppy
<cjwatson> infinity: Something like that, I think.
<infinity> cjwatson: While rockridge is closer to POSIX.
<cjwatson> I didn't even know 7z did ISO9660 unpacking.
<cjwatson> You can use bsdtar if you need a non-rootly unpacker.
<cjwatson> I think it actually gets it mostly right.
<powersj> ok - and yes I was looking for a non-root way of doing it so I could script it
<infinity> ogra_: Except that people keep insisting on writing iso9660 filesystems to larger and larger optical media.
<infinity> (Which is derpy, we should switch to something less broken)
<cjwatson> (It might have a slight problem with symlinks, I don't quite remember.)
<ogra_> yeah ... people are crazy
<infinity> What was the DVD filesystem that never really caught on?  UDF?
<infinity> Something like that.
<ogra_> yeah
<infinity> I'd love to see iso9660 die in a fire.
<ogra_> +1
<infinity> I'd also love to get rid of that file extension...
<infinity> I can only imagine a true greybeard, the first time he saw a .iso, going "huh, I wonder if this has something to do with date formats or country codes, or perhaps metric measurements... let's read it in vi".
<ogra_> well, vi would open it ...
<ogra_> might take a while though
<infinity> Sure would.
<infinity> Would also scribble all over your poor VT120.
<infinity> And possibly make it beep a lot.
<infinity> And by "beep", I mean that distinctly DEC "dwoop" noise.
<infinity> Man, I miss Digital.
<ogra_> :)
<infinity> Hrm.  It's been 18 years.  People have reached the age of majority since the Compaq/Digital acquisition.
<infinity> Maybe it's time for me to move on.
<infinity> Maybe.
<ogra_> or just to grow a very long beard
<ogra_> anmd watch it turn grey
<infinity> You could be on to something.
 * hallyn misses his vt101
#ubuntu-devel 2016-08-27
<nIRV_> greetings all; quick question: is there a way to know which compilation flags have been used to build the qt5 libraries offered on ubuntu's repository?
<sarnold> nIRV_: you've got to find the build logs for the package in question
<nIRV_> I'm mainly interested in whether qt5 is build using its in-source harfbuzz, or whether it relies on the system harfbuzz library (i.e. -qt-harfbuzz vs. -system-harfbuzz)
<nIRV_> sarnold, ok, that's useful. Where would I find that?
<sarnold> nIRV_: I think hte 'buildlog' link here is what you want https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-016/+build/9679177
<sarnold> gah
<sarnold> ci-rain-ppa-service? o_O is that right?
<sarnold> here's the 'release' version of that package, not the 'updates' version, it's more like what I expected: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/5.5.1+dfsg-16ubuntu7/+build/9568362
<sarnold> see the versions on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src
<nIRV_> sarnold, excellent; I can see the -system-harfbuzz flag being used, cool.
<nIRV_> sarnold, thanks again
<XiaoLe> pitti: Could you help to check for this bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1585863
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1585863 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "WiFi malfunction after suspend & resume stress - sudo wpa_cli scan required to fix it." [High,Confirmed]
<XiaoLe> pitti: Thank you ^______^
<XiaoLe> pitti: fourdollar & I just upload two patches for this bug, one for xenial, and one for yakkety~~
 * FourDollars blah
#ubuntu-devel 2016-08-28
<sujunmin> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcin/+bug/1617505
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1617505 in gcin (Ubuntu) "gcin didnt work in gnome-terminal after updating ubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<sujunmin> pitti: hello, I have upoloaded some patches for gcin, could you help me to deploy?
<elbrus> requestsync isn't working on my Debian system: can somebody sync dbconfig-common from Debian (fresh upload)
<elbrus> ginggs_: ^^ ?
<elbrus> delta with ubuntu is incorporated in the Debian package
<mitya57> elbrus, syncpackage: Error: Debian version 2.0.5 has not been picked up by LP yet. Please try again later.
<elbrus> mitya57: thanks, and right, I should have thought of that...
 * elbrus has been caught by that before...
<elbrus> mitya57: would you have any idea, if the following error by requestsync could be explained by that as well?
<elbrus> paul@ruapehu ~/tmp/packages/dbconfig-common $ requestsync -s --email dbconfig-common yakkety
<elbrus>   File "/usr/bin/requestsync", line 202, in main
<elbrus>     ubuntu_srcpkg = get_ubuntu_srcpkg(srcpkg, release, 'Proposed')
<elbrus> TypeError: get_ubuntu_srcpkg() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
<elbrus> doesn't look like it, but you never know...
<mitya57> elbrus, nope. Sounds like bug 1593296.
<ubottu> bug 1593296 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "requestsync --email fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1593296
<ginggs_> elbrus: you need to watch https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/dbconfig-common  <-- note 'debian' instead of 'ubuntu' here
<ginggs_> elbrus: i will sync in the morning
#ubuntu-devel 2017-08-21
<ginggs> doko: hi, can gsl be sync'd now? it might need another round of rebuilds
<lotuspsychje> hey guys, im still having this bug on 17.10: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hexchat/+bug/1576385
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576385 in hexchat (Ubuntu) "Dialog window shows on a shot of gnome-screenshot only in hexchat" [Undecided,New]
<lotuspsychje> just letting you know, have a nice day
<doko> ginggs: looks fine
<ginggs> doko: ok, thanks
<ginggs> gsl sync'd now
<doko> xnox, jbicha (not here): gjs ftbfs on s390x, but built before
<xnox> doko, i saw messages about dropping gjs binaries on s390x
<xnox> doko, <jbicha> no objections to dropping gjs/s390x ? on #ubuntu-desktop
<xnox> doko, i do not care about gjs, as that's not in the server stack. All the hip server things use nodejs / chromium js engine bits
<LocutusOfBorg> tsimonq2, mitya57 ahasenack qtbase merge to fix qtwebkit?
<LocutusOfBorg> I'm doing a qtwebkit-opensource-src 5.9.1+dfsg-4build1 with the fixes except for the qtbase bump, just to see how bad we go
<LocutusOfBorg> mitya57, maybe you want to deal with it, since you seems to be the one who fixed qtbase :)
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg, let me look
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg, yes, it needs a dependency on qtbase downgraded. I did not think about Ubuntu when I bumped it in Debian :)
<mitya57> And I would rather not merge qtbase at this point of time.
<LocutusOfBorg> mitya57, so, upload as ubuntu1 or build1?
<mitya57> As it changes debian/control, ubuntu1.
<mitya57> Will you do it? I can too.
<LocutusOfBorg> doing that already :)
<LocutusOfBorg> so I can do something useful there :D
 * mitya57 looks why previous version FTBFS on armhf
<LocutusOfBorg> mitya57, symbols
<LocutusOfBorg> symbols sadness
<LocutusOfBorg> btw, queues are empty, so it might even be a good time for a qtbase merge
<LocutusOfBorg> this is actually the reason for me asking
<LocutusOfBorg> I already have the dput ready to go BTW, I want the "build logs less than 20MB patch"
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg, please wait a couple of minutes before upload
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg, they won't be less than 20MB. They will be less than 500MB :)
<LocutusOfBorg> lol
<LocutusOfBorg> I'm ready to go, on your ack
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg, can you please include also this? https://paste.ubuntu.com/25362023/ it should fix armhf build
<LocutusOfBorg> uploading!
<LocutusOfBorg> is this something due to the change of linker?
<LocutusOfBorg> additional dup symbols?
<mitya57> I don't know why that symbol exists only on some archs. It is not inline.
<mitya57> The linker was changed only in Debian, in Ubuntu we are not using gold already.
<mitya57> Thank you!
<mitya57> And your upload LGTM :)
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks!
<LocutusOfBorg> mitya57, why it is not inline?
<LocutusOfBorg> #if ENABLE(PARALLEL_GC)
<LocutusOfBorg> void registerGCThread();
<LocutusOfBorg> WTF_EXPORT_PRIVATE bool isMainThreadOrGCThread();
<LocutusOfBorg> #elif PLATFORM(MAC)
<LocutusOfBorg> WTF_EXPORT_PRIVATE bool isMainThreadOrGCThread();
<LocutusOfBorg> #else
<LocutusOfBorg> inline bool isMainThreadOrGCThread() { return isMainThread(); }
<LocutusOfBorg> #endif
<LocutusOfBorg> now, I don't know if it takes that else or not, but it might be
<LocutusOfBorg> maybe PARALLEL_GC is not defined on arm?
<LocutusOfBorg> anyhow, removing qtwebkit directory, my eyes are bleeding
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg, oh, I was looking at dev branch instead of 5.9.1
<mitya57> In any case it is not always inline, only when parallel GC is enabled.
<mitya57> So it could be (optional=inline) in the symbols file, but really it is (optional=complicated) :)
<LocutusOfBorg> I would say only when parallel GC is NOT enabled
 * mitya57 will add the optional tag to Git if the same diff is needed in Debian
<mitya57> Right, sorry
<LocutusOfBorg> wonderful, no problem, I just started looking at qt stuff, and I feel noob
<LocutusOfBorg> btw qtbase in Ubuntu is using ld linker, why aren't we hitting the duplicate symbol files issue?
<LocutusOfBorg> I see in qtbase armhf log some --no-use-gold-linker or such
 * LocutusOfBorg is sorry if the answer is obvious, this is the first time he tried to understand all that stuff
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg, Ubuntu hit this bug earlier (some releases ago) and applied the fix earlier than Debian.
<mitya57> The fix is *not* using gold (gold is default in upstream Qt, so needs to be disabled explicitly).
<mitya57> Actually s/some releases ago/one release ago/: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/+bug/1656431
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1656431 in qtbase-opensource-src (Ubuntu) "Some KDE applications 16.10 FTbFS with Qt 5.7.1 on arm64 and ppc64el" [Undecided,Fix released]
<mitya57> This bug is the same as Debian #852035
<ubottu> Debian bug 852035 in binutils "binutils: bfd stumbles over duplicated symbols generated by gold" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/852035
<LocutusOfBorg> mitya57, mmm we fixed it in qt 5.7.1, but qt5.9 was syncd from debian, so the fix was lost, right?
<LocutusOfBorg> well now gold seems disabled everywhere
<LocutusOfBorg> (in debian)
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg, qtbase 5.9 was merged, not synced. gold is disabled everywhere in ubuntu too.
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg, if you want I can adjust debian/rules in ubuntu+1 branch so that it does not differ from Debian?
<LocutusOfBorg> it would be nice to make it syncable at the end
<LocutusOfBorg> I mean all the qt stuff
<LocutusOfBorg> tsimonq2, and I are working in that direction
<mitya57> I am working in that direction too :) Currently we have only four packages with delta: qtbase, qtdeclarative, qtmultimedia (will be dropped with 5.9.2) and qtwebkit (temporary)
<mitya57> In Debian we want to enable OpenGL ES on arm64 with Qt 5.9.2 packaging, which was a large part of Ubuntu delta.
<mitya57> The only remaining delta in qtdeclarative is transitional packages, that can be dropped after 18.04.
<mitya57> That is a big progress: in 5.7.1 times the qtdeclarative delta was huge
<mitya57> Well, I was not quite right, there is also a patch to fix s390x weirdness.
<LocutusOfBorg> s390x weirdness due to gcc different optimization levels?
 * LocutusOfBorg is not aware of that patch/package
<xnox> s390x does not have different optimization levels
<mitya57> https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-61579, testcase_array_iteration.patch
<LocutusOfBorg> wasn't it built with -O3?
<xnox> no, never
<xnox> ppc64le only
<LocutusOfBorg> ack thanks
<LocutusOfBorg> so, the Bl-symbolic foo applies as delta, right
<mitya57> The reason for that weirdness is unknown to me, but we have a workaround
<LocutusOfBorg> mitya57, did you try an ubuntu-built gcc compiler on a debian s390x porterbox? :)
<mitya57> No
<xnox> don't do that
<LocutusOfBorg> why?
<xnox> s390x porterbox is lower minimal CPU arch than what Ubuntu targets
<LocutusOfBorg> oh ok
<xnox> Ubuntu requires zEC12+
<LocutusOfBorg> so maybe the gcc uses more instructions on Ubuntu?
<LocutusOfBorg> we might do the other way around, keeping the gcc from Debian and try in Ubuntu
<LocutusOfBorg> but ppa don't have s390x, we need silo
<LocutusOfBorg> or try to build a gcc without that bl stuff and no-change rebuild qt
 * LocutusOfBorg leaves for lunch, cheers
<mitya57> xnox, how does Unity 7 need ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts?
<xnox> mitya57, the expectation is that unity7 desktop "works" where "works" means is functionally equivalent. dropping unity-control-centre & online accounts would, imho, mean "not works". but this is out of scope for me to define what it means to "ship unity7 in 17.10". that is responsibility of the ubuntu desktop team.
<mitya57> xnox, but ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts is a Touch / Unity 8 package. It should not affect the desktop UI in any way.
<xnox> yes.
<xnox> last time i looked it got entangled with unity7 stuff though
<xnox> maybe i got it wrong
<xnox> but there is work needed to be done to cut the touch bits out of things that are useful on both unity7 and unity8
<seb128> xnox, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/NotDefaultIssues
<seb128> xnox, mitya57, not having online account was an accepted regression
<seb128> we just can't maintain unity7 working as it was
<xnox> seb128, ah! is that authoritative wiki?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> well
<xnox> seb128, but the indicators must work, right? e.g. indicator-sound should drop dependency on url-launcher.
<seb128> it's documented the known regression
<mitya57> seb128, thanks for the pointer! Can you please comment on bug 1695928 and bug 1711204 that you (the desktop team) are fine with the proposed removals?
<ubottu> bug 1695928 in gnome-control-center-signon (Ubuntu) "Please remove obsolete UOA packages" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1695928
<ubottu> bug 1711204 in ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts (Ubuntu) "Remove ubuntu-ui-toolkit from the archive" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1711204
<xnox> cause url-launcher is unity8/touch stuff - system-settings-app
<seb128> we didn't make a call on what level of support we are still supposed to give to unity7
<mitya57> I think slangasek wants an input from Canonical desktop team, which you represent :)
<seb128> mitya57, yes
<mitya57> Thanks!
<seb128> yeah, I already commented on that bug
<xnox> seb128, and if questions arise, are you the goto?
<seb128> saying that the list is fine
<seb128> xnox, willcooke or I yes
<xnox> seb128, tah. If i spot stuff whilst doing removals and have questions I will ping you two.
<mitya57> xnox, url-dispatcher is easy to port away from ubuntu-ui-toolkit. I can take care of it.
<xnox> mitya57, that would make total amount of work to do go down. as we'd need not to patch every single indicator-* to drop the build-dep on url-dispatcher.
<xnox> and e.g. i'm not compentant to drop u-u-t from url-dispatcher
<mitya57> Yes, my plan was to avoid patching all indicators.
<mitya57> I also have no idea what it should do, but I can port the UI and test it :)
<seb128> I doubt anything use that UI now
<seb128> that was touch specific
<seb128> so even if it's buggy/missing it shouldn't be an issue
<LocutusOfBorg> wonderful! this makes qtbase candidate, right? :D
<LocutusOfBorg> so we can look more carefully to what is missing
<mitya57> https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/url-dispatcher/qtquickcontrols/+merge/329302
<xnox> mitya57, i like it! =)
<mitya57> Actually I donât know what is the point of what I have done, as nobody will use it on desktop. But it will allow url-dispatcher to die a bit later :)
<xnox> mitya57, >_< i feel you, and on the other hand feature freeze is on thursday hence YOLO
<Faux> Freeze? Quick, time to sneak in openssl 1.1 while nobody is looking.
<xnox> Faux, haha, no.
<xnox> Faux, have you seen the state of openssl 1.1 in debian and the mega flame war thread
<xnox> ?
<Faux> I haven't, since the one about having to do a release with two versions and e.g. curl being a nightmare.
<xnox> ahhhh tl;dr there is more stuff "discussed" now
<Faux> There's not really much to discuss, except "when", and "I don't like it wah wah".
<xnox> Faux, literarly that's not what is discussed or causing contreversy now.
<Faux> Haha. Maybe I should go look. -devel?
<Faux> Oh, I saw the TLS1.0/1.1 thing. Interesting experiment, but not a real problem or appropriate to release.
<xnox> i beg to differ
<xnox> i have no simpathy for using modern client to talk to old servers; or making my server insecure because of end of life client.
<xnox> there is only one logical reason why people
<xnox> would want to prevent stronger security.
<Faux> If TLS 1.1 had been widely supported even five years ago I might agree with you, but the ~3 years it's been relatively commonplace is just not enough for people to catch on.
<xnox> Faux, huh?! precise has TLSv1.2 support
<Faux> I'm biased this dropping support for things like Android 4.3, the current release until Oct 2013 (less than four years ago), and openjdk-7, which was the most recent Java release until Xenial.
<xnox> Faux, i have no sympathy for obsolete clients, Android 4.3 is long dead and out of security support
<Faux> I know! I'd love to see it fixed. But I still think the reality is that you have to give terrible people five years, which will be the case by buster's release, but not 17.10.
<doko> tjaalton: plesae don't use llvm-5.0 for mesa yet. llvm-5.0 has a hard coded dependency on gcc-6
<tjaalton> doko: ok, damn
<doko> apw, looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/binutils/+bug/1702056: do you build the linux package without having proposed enabled?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1702056 in linux (Ubuntu) "perf broken on 4.11.0-9-generic (artful): /usr/lib/linux-tools/4.11.0-9-generic/perf: error while loading shared libraries: libbfd-2.28-system.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" [High,Confirmed]
<ginggs> doko: gsl migrated on its own, no rebuilds required
<apw> doko, we do not, but that is an old pre transition kernel
<doko> apw: ta, so maybe close the issue
<apw> when the new kernel and binutils migrated as a set they also orphaned the old kernel perf
<apw> I am supprised that is installable though to get that erroe
<doko> LocutusOfBorg: do you intend to package the new lsvpd upstream version?
<nacc> slashd: ping
<slashd> nacc, hi
<nacc> slashd: so i was reviewing the logrotate merge -- and i'm a bit confused why so much of the upstream bits were dropped from your fix to LP: #1709670 ? specifically, you dropped the bits that moved the allocateHash call and so they are incorrect now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1709670 in logrotate (Debian) "logrotate never recovers if the statefile is corrupted" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1709670
<slashd> nacc, looking
<nacc> slashd: thanks, i think i'll end up dropping your changes in the merge, and taking the strict upstream change, but it might be relevant for the SRUs
<slashd> nacc, so you'll do artful and me the SRU does that sound good ?
<slashd> nacc, thanks for catching this up
<nacc> slashd: right, but it looks like you already did both :) and i'm worried the SRUs might be wrong (and the one in artful looks a bit off too) -- so you might need to change the state there, to indicate it needs another update
<nacc> slashd: but yeah, i'll make sure the artful version is correct
<slashd> nacc, yeah I'll look at the SRU again.
<nacc> slashd: thanks, let me know if you want help reviewing the changes -- sorry I didn't catch it earlier
<slashd> nacc, glad you did, still don't understand why I miss that.
<nacc> slashd: i only caught it because the patch definitely doesn't apply (I didn't expect it to) to the latest from Debian (which isn't fully cuaght up to upstream), but contains a comment about don't return until we allocate the hash, which doesn't happen with the patch applied :)
<rosattig> hi guys, I'm trying to install artful and I got this message -> debootstrap warning: http://us.ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/artful/main/binary-ppc64el/Packages.gz was corrupt
<rosattig> what does it mean?
<rosattig> thanks in advance!
<nacc> rosattig: for #ubuntu, perhaps?
<rosattig> ok, I can post there thanks. But I thought as it was a development release, this channel would seem more appropriate
<nacc> rosattig: this is for development of ubuntu
<nacc> rosattig: sorry, #ubuntu+1 then, for artful
<rosattig> ok nacc, thanks!!
<nacc> rosattig: np
<LocutusOfBorg> doko, can you please ask the maintainer to update it in Debian too?
<slangasek> mitya57: so bug #1695928 is not filed against the packages that you say should be removed. Do you want to correct that? or jbicha?
<ubottu> bug 1695928 in gnome-control-center-signon (Ubuntu) "Please remove obsolete UOA packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1695928
<mwhudson> Laney: that's one special docker bug you have there
<mwhudson> waait how the fuck are docker autopkgtests marked as always failing on ppc64el
<mwhudson> they were definitely working at some point
<mwhudson> slangasek: why did you mark docker badtest?
<mwhudson> slangasek: without at least talking to me? :)
<mwhudson> biab
<slangasek> mwhudson: according to the comment in my hints file, the tests were failing when run against the release pocket alone, so the test had already regressed in release when I set the hint
<mwhudson> slangasek: :(
<mwhudson> at least it fails on amd64 too so i have some hope of debugging it
<mwhudson> i wonder if it's some change in how the lxd images are built
<jackpot51> What does MIR mean in an issue title?
<nacc> Main Inclusion Request
<nacc> jackpot51: ---^
<Unit193> Or a bug against the Mir display server, they named two different things by the same name.
<nacc> heh
<nacc> I assumed MIR referred to the former, and Mir to the latter in bugs, but I suppose that's not always going to be true :)
<Faux> Or the Rust intermediate representation!
<seb128> bah, I copied the new libreoffice from a ppa but to artful instead of artful-proposed :-/
<xnox> seb128, i thought new ubuntu-archive-tools did have a fail-safe net, to prevent archive admins from doing that.
<xnox> seb128, demote to proposed? and resurrect the old one?
<seb128> xnox, seems not :-/
<seb128> how do I do that?
<xnox> i'm not an AA, but it is possible.
<xnox> slangasek, doko, wgrant, can you help seb128 ?
<xnox> seb128, there should be a demotion script available in the ubuntu-archive-tools. and then it's a copy-package from artful to artful with a flag to allow copying deleted packages. make sure to use exact version number.
<xnox> something like that, but I do not know for sure.
<seb128> xnox, k, tried to do that, I hope I did it right :-)
<xnox> seb128, ok, i see new libreoffice in proposed. that looks good.
<xnox> I do not see resurrected libreoffice, yet. there are double copy bugs, where if you do it twice it gets lost, thus if it's not there after 2 more publisher runs, you may need to do the ressurect again.
 * xnox ponders block-proposed bug until ressurection is done
<xnox> ah, 5.3 is in artful-proposed, so it should migrate
<xnox> seb128, if you have powers - just hint to skip / ignore tests for old libreoffice to migrate http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#libreoffice
<seb128> I don't know how to do that
<xnox> hm or not, i am confused, i shall stop talking.
<seb128> xnox, demotion failed with a "no binary to copy"
<xnox> (it's entangled with poppler, etc)
<xnox> seb128, send an email to release, things look ok now, but i'm not sure if they could be improved and like have some libreoffice in artful-release
<seb128> well copying back the old version seems to have failed
<seb128> or at least I don't see it
<seb128> score :-/
<xnox> don't do it again, until a publisher run.
 * xnox somehow things that lp bug is not fixed yet.
 * xnox somehow thinks that lp bug is not fixed yet.
<seb128> k
<seb128> well, it looks like libreoffice-l10n failed or isn't showing in artful yet
<seb128> libreoffice is pending
<seb128> I guess I'm just going to call it a day and see how things look like in the morning/try to sort it out if nobody else fixed up for me in between
<xnox> yeah, it looks ok now.
 * xnox needs to sleep too
<Unit193> No, sleep is bad.
<nacc> mwhudson: did you send the delta for src:python-pika-pool (from 1ubuntu2) to debian?
<mwhudson> nacc: i guess if you're asking you can't see a bug in debian bts and the answer is probably no?\
<nacc> coreycb: --^ i guess you did the last upload to debian, presumably the same change as our last is needed there and we can then sync it?
<nacc> mwhudson: more to get the conversation rolling ;)
<nacc> mwhudson: and <cough>submittodebian<cough> you
<mwhudson> yeah looks like that one got missed
<nacc> np, i'll send it up
<mwhudson> thanks :)
#ubuntu-devel 2017-08-22
<Unit193> Is there a reason firefox skipped artful-proposed the last couple uploads?
<fossfreedom_> hi all - just testing our latest daily Ubuntu ISO. I cannot ping google.com from either the live ISO session nor an installed session in virtualbox. Can anyone help to provide a bit of insight what has gone wrong in our ISO?
<fossfreedom_> s/Ubuntu/Ubuntu Budgie/
<tsimonq2> fossfreedom_: Can you ping 8.8.8.8?
<tsimonq2> If you can, I usually jump to systemd-resolved acting up again. :P
<fossfreedom_> yep - it looks like 8.8.8.8 is working
 * tsimonq2 kicks systemd-resolved *grr*
<fossfreedom_> sorry - my networking knowledge is non-existent in this systemd world ... what is systemd-resolved?
<tsimonq2> (in all reality, that's just a wild guess, don't take my word on it, I personally like for systemd-resolved to be my scapegoat for DNS problems :P)
<tsimonq2> fossfreedom_: It replaced resolvconf
<tsimonq2> It's the homegrown systemd thing
<fossfreedom_> k.  thanks.  Kind of difficult to run ubuntu-bug systemd-resolved without a network :P
<tsimonq2> :P
<fossfreedom_> tsimonq2, do you have a current daily handy?  just wondering if its just us affected, or all dailies as of yesterday.
<tsimonq2> fossfreedom_: I'm running it locally, fresh rebooted 12 hours ago, no problems
<fossfreedom_> :(
<Unit193> I find DNS usually works better without resolved. :P
<tsimonq2> Unit193: I agree 100%. :P
<fossfreedom_> who is our systemd-resolved / network-manager SME ?
<tsimonq2> fossfreedom_: c y p h e r m o x iirc
<tsimonq2> idk, could have changed :)
 * tsimonq2 goes to bed, it's approaching 3 AM!
<Laney> mwhudson: sucks eh
<mwhudson> Laney: which autopkgtest was failing that way?
<Laney> mwhudson: ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<Laney> python-docker or something
<Laney> anything which installs docker as a dependency tho
<Laney> docker itself probs
<mwhudson> let's see what happens in an artful chroot on diamond i guess
<Laney> does that message mean anything to you?
<mwhudson> er lxd
<Laney> it sounded a bit like an ABI break
<mwhudson> well it's the dynamic linker having a fit?
<mwhudson> R_PPC64_ADDR16_HA doesn't really sound like the sort of relocation that usually gets as far as the dynamic linker though
<mwhudson> uhh
<mwhudson> why is the load on diamond 150
<mwhudson> i'm sure the 5 apt.systemd.daily processes are entirely unrelated :(
<fossfreedom_> cyphermox, is this one you can help us with please? or let us know who can? TIA https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1712283
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1712283 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Budgie - Cannot resolve DNS in artful daily" [Undecided,New]
<jibel> xnox, ^ it could be due to last upload of resolvconf. It's gone from the image.
<xnox> jibel, yes and no. both ifupdown and resolvconf are no longer required, which is normal. with systemd that migrated last friday there are changes to DNS.
<xnox> i shall test things with latest image to see what's going on
<xnox> (however note that resolvconf was only demoted from priority important on monday)
<jibel> xnox, okay.
<xnox> i believe cloud images failed to publish too.
<xnox> mwhudson, apt.systemd.daily arguh?!
<xnox> jibel, hmmmm ubuntu-desktop doesn't boot for me at all
<mwhudson> xnox: the machine was unhappy, some io nonsense
<xnox> fossfreedom_, jibel $ sudo ln -sf /run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf /etc/resolv.conf
<xnox> fixes things interractively, investigating why that's not the case out of the box.
<fossfreedom_> xnox +1 cheers.  That works nicely.
<xnox> jibel, fossfreedom_ - and i think i know what i need to upload to fix this.
<xnox> hm, however i am confused why /etc/resolv.conf is an empty file inside the chroot
<xnox> inside the image that is.
<xnox> hm.... looks like a bug in livecd-rootfs
<mwhudson> Laney: well docker passes a smoke test in an artful lxd on a xenial host  on ppc64el :(
<Laney> mwhudson: can you start an artful VM?
<mwhudson> Laney: let's see
<mwhudson> how do i figure out the ip address of a vm with virsh again?
<mwhudson> cpaelzer: i've started the mwhudson-artful vm on diamond but it doesn't seem to be talking to the network, help?
<xnox> mwhudson, use older artful vm? =) pre-monday ideally
<xnox> there is a bug in current networking not working.
<xnox> possibly try starting systemd-networkd and netplan
<mwhudson> xnox: this one is a little old
<xnox> horum, ok.
<mwhudson> anyway i should go to bed instead of this
<mwhudson> if someone wants to reproduce https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/docker.io/+bug/1711935 and give me access to a system / vm where i can do so too, that would be most excellent
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1711935 in docker.io (Ubuntu) "failing to start on ppc64el: R_PPC64_ADDR16_HA 277ef287d88 for symbol `' out of range" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> bdmurray, hey, could you have a look to the patch on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1703365? It looks good to me, maybe you can look if it makes sense to you as well and get it merged?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1703365 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/update-manager:AttributeError:<lambda>:on_settings_button_clicked:show_settings" [High,Triaged]
<doko> seb128: why did you set the status to comitted? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-plugin-alternative-toolbar/+bug/1703662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1703662 in rhythmbox-plugin-alternative-toolbar (Ubuntu) "[MIR] rhythmbox-plugin-alternative-toolbar" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<seb128> doko, because it was closed by nobody actually promoted it
<seb128> so fix released felt wrong
<doko> s/by/but/ ?
<seb128> yes, sorry
<seb128> I should have set it to triaged or something else?
<doko> set back to new. committed means it is approved and needs an archive admin to promote
<seb128> which is the case there afiak
<doko> and think cyphermox can handle that then
<doko> ?
<seb128> it's approved and showing on component mismatch
<seb128> see comment #5
<cyphermox> wat?
<cyphermox> r-p-a-t was Fix Committed because the MIR was good, and ready to be promoted.
<seb128> cyphermox, it got fix released without being promoted which is why I changed the status back to fix commited, which doko was asking about
<seb128> I guess it just need to be promoted
<seb128> I need to change location but I'm going to do that once I'm back online (if nobody beats me to it)
<doko> Mirv: #1708428 needs a package subscriber, I guess the same as libvoikko?
<bdmurray> seb128, jibel: I'm out today but will have a look at the u-m bug tomorrow.
<cpaelzer> xnox: I saw you dropping upstart jobs from irqbalance
<cpaelzer> xnox: I might remeber wrong but those jobswere no delta but in Debian right?
<cpaelzer> xnox: and if so would there be any pain to leave them as is - it now has a native systemd service anyway
<cpaelzer> xnox: so whats the purpose on actively dropping those?
<xnox> cpaelzer, yes there is pain.
<cpaelzer> any bug or other explanation I could refer to when understanding :-) ?
<xnox> package size, image size, install size, conffile checks in dpkg on every upgrade, longer build times, larger maintainer scripts, larger backups, larger etckeeper, larger and longer 'grep -r /etc'
<xnox> cpaelzer, they are small, but it is a lot times 10,000 containers
<xnox> i'm aiming to have /etc/init gone from artful lxd cotnainer and I am 3 packages away from achieving that
<cpaelzer> xnox: ok, no offense please just wanted to understand :-)
<cpaelzer> now I see your point thanks
<cpaelzer> did you submit the drop as request to Debian?
<xnox> cpaelzer, not yet, but i will do a mass bug file in debian with dd-list
<cpaelzer> ok thanks
<xnox> at the moment i want to clear lxd default container by feature freeze, then proceed with debian mass bug file
<xnox> some scripts dropped were ubuntu delta (thus minimising delta)
<xnox> some bugs are filed upstream / to debian
<cpaelzer> ok, I had a merge ready and just wanted to get context
<cpaelzer> now I'm able to redo it properly - thanks for the details xnox
<xnox> cpaelzer, grab the diff from launchpad and reply it on top of your merge, it should apply clean sans changelog whcih will need tweaks
<seb128> jbicha, hey, did you see my ping about n-m/connectivy api? (sorry was offline for a bit, and now I don't want to disturb the meeting :-)
<jbicha> seb128: I think so, haven't had a chance to look through jamesh's backported patchset yet
<seb128> jbicha, I think it's a simple matter of applying to the vcs/uploading, it's just that my todo is full for today and I'm off tomorrow
<seb128> so if you would like to handle the upload that would be welcome
<seb128> otherwise I try to do that on thursday
<jbicha> seb128: if it doesn't take too much time, could you try to kickstart the desktop version tracker again today?
<seb128> jbicha, sure
<jbicha> yes, I'll try to look through the NM uploads by tomorrow
<seb128> thanks
<jackpot51> Discussion about Pop! OS right now, right here: https://chat.pop-os.org/community/channels/town-square
<nacc> jackpot51: ... why are you putting that in this channel?
<seb128> seems spam, he cross posted on other channels as well
<nacc> seb128: +1\
<jackpot51> Not spam, just if you guys are interested
<jackpot51> If not, please ignore, I won't send any more messages
<jackpot51> It is *one* message to talk about an Ubuntu based distribution. We are currently discussing default settings and applications
<seb128> jackpot51, well, you gave little context on what you plan to discuss and why it could be useful to Ubuntu developers to join
<jackpot51> Sorry for that seb128
<Unit193> Hrm, not patch pilot listed on the calendar for a while.  Can I get anyone interested in helping a flavor out?  bug 1709733
<ubottu> bug 1709733 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1709733
#ubuntu-devel 2017-08-23
<mwhudson> Laney: ok that docker bug is still happening in the autopkgtests but not in an artful vm wot i have running
<Unit193> nacc: ...Can I ping you on the above?
<cpaelzer> Hi, on bug 1708305 - this had a Zesty and Xenial SRU portion - the Xenial one was waiting for another to fully complete
<ubottu> bug 1708305 in libvirt (Ubuntu Xenial) "Realtime feature mlockall: Cannot allocate memory" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1708305
<cpaelzer> that is now done, if one could take a look to also move the Xenial from unapproved to proposed that would be great
<cpaelzer> niedbalski: ^^
<cpaelzer> that is your fix
<tjaalton> launchpad bug search doesn't seem to check the bug subject?
<tjaalton> nevermind
<Laney> hey mwhudson
<Laney> same kernel?
 * Laney zaps those dockers again
<Unit193> I'm just going to presume http://paste.openstack.org/show/ecAlh4a45cYakljl2ktL/ for platform.artful (or platform.bodacious) isn't going to happen and I shouldn't even bother with an MP?
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg, tsimonq2: I have uploaded pytest-qt which should fix the last autopkgtest failure and thus make Qt 5.9 candidate for migration.
<doko> SpamapS: I rejected python3.5 to add another patch
<niedbalski> rbasak, cpaelzer slashd any chance to get a review on the artful patch attached to LP: #1657256?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1657256 in percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6 (Ubuntu) "Percona crashes when doing a a 'larger' update" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1657256
<cpaelzer> I don't feel expertised enough on this - but it is mysql under the hood
<cpaelzer> niedbalski: rbasak should be back tmrw - is that early enough
<cpaelzer> rbasak: I might provide the testing on p8 while you coudl do the formal check
<cpaelzer> rbasak: please ping me what you think on that case
<cpaelzer> niedbalski: also this is (very) lengthy - what is the current part that is "open" review the artful debdiff?
<niedbalski> cpaelzer, thanks for looking into this. I am sure if am getting the last question.
<niedbalski> cpaelzer, *not sure.
<cpaelzer> niedbalski: last question: this has so many old tasks old debdiffs, new ones ... what do you expect from sponsors right now?
<cpaelzer> niedbalski: just the artful review and re-visit SRUs once that is done?
<niedbalski> cpaelzer, yes, currently I am expecting for the artful patch to be reviewed, then, a follow up SRU for the all the affected series.
<cpaelzer> ok, recommendation - reduce the scope of a single step - so for now state clearly you want "just artful reviewed and sponsored"
<cpaelzer> niedbalski: helps to not flash people with the extra long history and multitude of changes
<cpaelzer> niedbalski: I wait for rbasak to state his opinion for tmrw - it is a fix so not directly FF critical (which is tmrw as well)
<niedbalski> cpaelzer, thanks for the recommendation but no other action has been requested at the moment for sponsors, just the artful task.
<nacc> Unit193: i'll look
<bdmurray> slangasek, doko: There is a new version of apport in artful gathering python version information and this seems curious to me. "PythonDetails: /usr/bin/python2.7 Python 2.7.13+" from bug 1711813. My python2.7 has no + in the version output.
<ubottu> bug 1711813 in openafs (Ubuntu) "package openafs-client (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: Ð¿Ð¾Ð´Ð¿ÑÐ¾ÑÐµÑÑ ÑÑÑÐ°Ð½Ð¾Ð²Ð»ÐµÐ½ ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð°ÑÐ¸Ð¹ post-installation Ð²Ð¾Ð·Ð²ÑÐ°ÑÐ¸Ð» ÐºÐ¾Ð´ Ð¾ÑÐ¸Ð±ÐºÐ¸ 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1711813
<SpamapS> doko: kk. Thanks for working on it eithe rway. :-D
<slangasek> bdmurray: so someone has tinkered with their install?
<bdmurray> slangasek: that's my hunch
<doko> $ python -c 'import sys; print (sys.version)'
<doko> 2.7.13+ (default, Jul 19 2017, 18:15:03)
<doko> [GCC 6.4.0 20170704]
<doko> bdmurray: ?
<bdmurray> doko: What package version is that? I have 2.7.13-2
<doko> 2.7.13-4
<bdmurray> oh so somebody running -proposed then?
<doko> ohh, is this still in -proposed?
<bdmurray> doko: yes
<bdmurray> slangasek: So it seems like we could use a bit more info in PythonDetails then to display if python is from a package and if so which one version.
<slangasek> bdmurray: makes sense to me
<LocutusOfBorg> Unit193, you are listed on uploaders, why aren't you using compat level 10?
<LocutusOfBorg> mitya57, <3
<LocutusOfBorg> sponsored anyway
<LocutusOfBorg> [19:08:09] -queuebot/#ubuntu-release- New source: xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin (artful-proposed/primary) [0.1.0-0ubuntu1]
<jackpot51> Any thoughts about 17.10 not having New Document -> Empty Document like Unity did?
<jackpot51> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1437502
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1437502 in Ubuntu GNOME "nautilus lacking 'new document' in context menu on GNOME" [Low,Triaged]
<ccheney> any possibly of getting the patch from lp#1703499 applied before 17.10 is released?
<mwhudson> Laney: yeah my kernel was old i assume that was the issue but i didn't actually verify that
<jbicha> jackpot51: that issue affects Unity too, it's not really related to the GNOME switch
<azubieta> Hello! Can some one point me which tools sould I use to create my own linux livecd based on ubuntu ?
<Unit193> nacc: Thanks.
<Unit193> LocutusOfBorg: In sn-plug?  Overall pkg-xfce doesn't a whole lot, and it needs to be setup to properly use autoreconf with Xfce.
<Unit193> LocutusOfBorg: ...I thought you weren't going to sponsor in Ubuntu?  Not that I'm complaining!
#ubuntu-devel 2017-08-24
<doko> jamespage, coreycb: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg  shows almost all server/openstack issues. tomorrow is feature freeze. please could you have a look?
<coreycb> doko: yes i'll sort those out
<coreycb> xnox: doko: we also have a number of autopkgtests blocked by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1691096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1691096 in systemd (Ubuntu Artful) "mysql in lxd fails to start with systemd 233: failed at step KEYRING" [High,Triaged]
<slangasek> doko: speaking of, do you mind looking at the last comments on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ppc64-diag/+bug/1417608 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1417608 in iprutils (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ppc64-diag needed in minimal for hotplug capabilities" [High,Incomplete]
<xnox> coreycb, yes, we also have all of images broken due to not working networkd/resolvconf.
<xnox> coreycb, once we have images out with networkd/resolvconf working properly, i'll be looking into fixing keyring.
<xnox> unfortunately breaking the $world is not helping fix that regression =/
<coreycb> xnox: thanks, never a dull moment :/
<slangasek> xnox: did re-promoting ifupdown fix things as expected?  now we just have other autopkgtest failures to sort out?
<xnox> slangasek, it has, and we have cloud images out on 23rd
<slangasek> ok
<doko> slangasek: I've assigned the issue to me. will have a look
<LocutusOfBorg> Unit193, freeze was approaching
<Unit193> Indeed. :/
<blahdeblah> cpaelzer: Please PM when you have a sec
<cpaelzer> blahdeblah: back in a sec and PM you then
<blahdeblah> ta - not urgent
<Laney> mwhudson: weeeeee
<Laney> maybe I can avoid having to kill these jobs again
<Laney> slightly annoying procedure
<Laney> good work
<mwhudson> Laney: do they really get stuck indefinitely?
<Laney> no, but it times out and then retries
<mwhudson> ah
<Unit193> LocutusOfBorg: Gah!  Sorry I didn't see the LP comments, it seems it no longer emails me. :/
<mwhudson> Laney: does it make sense to kill off most of the docker.io/ppc64 autopkgtests?
<mwhudson> not the ones with containerd in the triggers though
<mwhudson> (the new containerd does seem to fix the problem too \o/)
<Laney> mwhudson: I guess when it migrates they'll get the new containerd at the next retry?
<mwhudson> Laney: ah yes, true
<mwhudson> i love(*) that thing where there is a delay between tests finishing and the result appearing on the test list (*) may be a lie
<Laney> you shall have results!
<Laney> even went green on ppc64el, how about that
<mwhudson> hurrah!
<mwhudson> woop containerd migrated
<mwhudson> so other bits should go through on next retry
<Laney> ^_^
<andyrock> hey bdmurray
<andyrock> I'm wondering if I can use git ubuntu clone update-manager to send a SRU patch (xenial and trusty)
<andyrock> instead of debdiff
<LocutusOfBorg> Unit193, fossfreedom please get the budgie packages uploaded in debian too
<LocutusOfBorg> if they are useful
<Unit193> Howdy, I'm not with Budgie.  But I have seen certain packages flowing into Debian recently that were.
<fossfreedom> LocutusOfBorg, aye - budgie-indicator-applet will be proposed once budgie-desktop has cleared the new queue.
<LocutusOfBorg> ack thanks
<LocutusOfBorg> I sponsored 4 budgie packages
<LocutusOfBorg> fossfreedom, you should apply for PPU and Debian Maintainer
<LocutusOfBorg> Unit193, please write some MOTU application paperwork
<LocutusOfBorg> I find a waste of time reviewing your packages, you know the job better than me, I just sign and upload
<tsimonq2> LocutusOfBorg: If the DMB meeting had gone through with, fossfreedom already has a PPU application ready ;)
<Unit193> LocutusOfBorg: Yeah, I need to get to that.  DMB members keep not showing up to meetings so hard to tell when I can make one. :/
<Unit193> But yes, sorry.  I really need to.
<LocutusOfBorg> tsimonq2, oh indeed, I missed (and I even looked at the agenda lol)
<LocutusOfBorg> Unit193, you need to write the application, or did you already?
<Unit193> I need to write it still.
<LocutusOfBorg> so you are blocked a step before :)
<LocutusOfBorg> no need to be sorry, I'm just saying you are more than ready
<Unit193> I keep meaning to ask one of the people if "things you're proud of" count from Debian packages too.
<LocutusOfBorg> yes
<LocutusOfBorg> they count, specially if I sponsored them and are no-change sync in Ubuntu :)
<Unit193> Eg, got Deluge sync'able.
<LocutusOfBorg> virtualbox-ext-pack work
<LocutusOfBorg> some ruby I sponsored
<Unit193> The ruby-net-ssh transition, yeah.
<LocutusOfBorg> I did today some mini ruby-transition I might need help
<LocutusOfBorg> depending on how autopkgtests performs
<LocutusOfBorg> acheronuk, tsimonq2 mitya57
<LocutusOfBorg>     * ppc64el: gnucash, kjots, kmymoney, kmymoney-dev, libertine-manager-app, libertine-qt-common, libreoffice-pdfimport, libubuntugestures5, libubuntutoolkit5, notes-app, orthanc-wsi, python-gnucash, qml-module-ubuntu-components, qml-module-ubuntu-components-labs, qml-module-ubuntu-layouts, qml-module-ubuntu-settings-components, qml-module-ubuntu-test, qtdeclarative5-gsettings1.0, qtdeclarative5-render2d-plugin,
<LocutusOfBorg> qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-push-plugin, qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-settings-components, qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-extras0.2, qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin, ubuntu-budgie-desktop, ubuntu-filemanager-app, ubuntu-keyboard, ubuntu-keyboard-arabic, ubuntu-keyboard-azerbaijani, ubuntu-keyboard-bosnian, ubuntu-keyboard-catalan, ubuntu-keyboard-chinese-chewing, ubuntu-keyboard-chinese-pinyin, ubuntu-keyboard-croatian,
<LocutusOfBorg> ubuntu-keyboard-czech, ubuntu-keyboard-danish, ubuntu-keyboard-dutch, ubuntu-keyboard-emoji, ubuntu-keyboard-english, ubuntu-keyboard-esperanto, ubuntu-keyboard-finnish, ubuntu-keyboard-french, ubuntu-keyboard-german, ubuntu-keyboard-greek, ubuntu-keyboard-hebrew, ubuntu-keyboard-hungarian, ubuntu-keyboard-icelandic, ubuntu-keyboard-italian, ubuntu-keyboard-japanese, ubuntu-keyboard-korean, ubuntu-keyboard-latvian,
<LocutusOfBorg> ubuntu-keyboard-norwegian-bokmal, ubuntu-keyboard-persian, ubuntu-keyboard-polish, ubuntu-keyboard-portuguese, ubuntu-keyboard-romanian, ubuntu-keyboard-russian, ubuntu-keyboard-scottish-gaelic, ubuntu-keyboard-serbian, ubuntu-keyboard-slovenian, ubuntu-keyboard-spanish, ubuntu-keyboard-swedish, ubuntu-keyboard-tests, ubuntu-keyboard-ukrainian, ubuntu-printing-app, ubuntu-system-settings, ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot,
<LocutusOfBorg> ubuntu-ui-toolkit-examples, ubuntu-ui-toolkit-tools, ubuntukylin-desktop, unity-greeter-session-broadcast, url-dispatcher, url-dispatcher-tools, url-dispatcher-tools-gui, utopia-documents, utopia-documents-dbg
<LocutusOfBorg> we are just missing them?
<tsimonq2> LocutusOfBorg: bug 1711204
<ubottu> bug 1711204 in checkbox (Ubuntu) "Remove ubuntu-ui-toolkit from the archive" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1711204
<LocutusOfBorg> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=871373
<ubottu> Debian bug 871373 in src:kmymoney "kmymoney: FTBFS: CMakeFiles/Makefile2:4181: recipe for target 'kmymoney/dialogs/settings/CMakeFiles/settings_autogen.dir/all' failed" [Serious,Open]
<acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg: cmake 3.9 borkage?
<acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg: possibly? https://cgit.kde.org/kmymoney.git/commit/?h=4.8&id=b0a68ca075928aa29ee1e0007bfb14d714f5a948
<mdeslaur> xnox: ha! was just about to upload nss too :)
<xnox> mdeslaur, snap
<xnox> =)
<mdeslaur> xnox: thanks
<xnox> mdeslaur, i was like we must migrate all the things for the freeze
<xnox> hence retried adt tests; uploaded that; pinged about vanished binutils publication; etc. =)
<mdeslaur> now you TIL, the nss curse has been broken
<mdeslaur> I AM FREEEEEEE
<mdeslaur> ;)
<cjwatson> doko: did you intend to delete binutils 2.29-6ubuntu3/s390x?  I see you deleted 2.29-6ubuntu2 on other arches
<cjwatson> stgraber: Do you happen to remember if your buildd chroot->lxd proof of concept had a specific reason for using privileged containers?
<ricotz> xnox, hi
<xnox> ricotz, hello
<ricotz> xnox, could you merge the last util-linux changes from debian?
<xnox> ricotz, the fdisk split et.al?
<ricotz> xnox, yes, it blocks clonezilla
<xnox> yeah sure
<ricotz> thanks
<juliank> xnox: Is there a way to get access to a ppc64el artful? The apt tests fail weirdly in config handling there, but they work fine in Debian's ppc64el port. I assume there is either a gcc optimization bug or a bug in the function starting here https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/apt/apt.git/tree/apt-pkg/contrib/configuration.cc#n96
<juliank> For testing, it basically reads in configure-index and uses that to check that all options are documented.
<juliank> It does not understand the * and ** wildcards on ppc64el builds, but the loop there is complicated.
<mitya57> acheronuk, LocutusOfBorg: I can take care of kmymoney
<tsimonq2> mitya57: Thanks :)
<juliank> There also is a regression in  ~beta2 where another test fails on all non-amd64 architectures, but that's a different topic
<juliank> The test fail in line 137 with the "Using unknown config option Â»%sÂ« of type %s" warning
<xnox> juliank, qemu-static should work
<xnox> juliank, i have access to it, but i don't think i can expose it to you
<cpaelzer> juliank: also I can retry something on ppc64 if you don't need direct access
<cpaelzer> direct access has all the authoentication and other hurdles, but if you have a command or script to try let us know
<cpaelzer> otherwise as xnox said, static should do the job mostly
<juliank> Right
<juliank> xnox: One main difference with Debian's ppc64el is that it builds with -O3 instead of -O2 right?
<xnox> juliank, yes
<juliank> I'll just do a -O3 build on Debian and see if that fails first :D
<juliank> That's really fast on the plummer machine :D
<juliank> I feel like there might be some undefined behavior in there and it thus just drops the inner loops handling the wildcards...
 * xnox likes this juliank c++ compiler validator
<xnox> it's like if i see apt ftbfs i'm like - oh noes, we have a compiler bug.
<juliank> xnox: Can reproduce with -O3 on Debian ...
<juliank> And yes, that's exactly what happens - we don't enter the loop
<xnox> compiler 0 - 1 juliank -> no g++, there really _are_ things to do here
<juliank> xnox: Heh, apparently that code is not the problem, it's StringSplit(name, "::") not splitting the string
<juliank> Split apt::compressor::xz::binary into 1parts
<juliank> yeah, lol
<juliank> xnox: It's a compiler bug.
<juliank> StringSplit takes a std::string const &
<juliank> we pass in a "::" literal
<juliank> but inside string split, we receive garbage
<juliank> doko: ^
<juliank> doko: The function call at https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/apt/apt.git/tree/apt-pkg/contrib/configuration.cc#n108 for function https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/apt/apt.git/tree/apt-pkg/contrib/strutl.cc#n1308 fails to pass a temporary string by constant reference (std::string const & parameter, supplied a string literal "::")
<juliank> This is a regression from the gcc 7 update on ppc64el (with -O3)
<doko> juliank: test case?
<juliank> doko: Let me try to minimize it
<juliank> doko: Can't reproduce in a small test case, unfortunately.
<doko> juliank: please file a bug report. irc is no good for that
<juliank> doko: Right. JFTR: Moving the separator argument literal into a variable fixes the problem ... https://paste.ubuntu.com/25383149/
<juliank> doko: I guess it's best to just report that directly upstream to the gcc people, as with all the other bugs .
<juliank> Maybe somebody there directly knows what went wrong
<doko> juliank: would be good to know if that happens with -O3 on other archs as well
<juliank> Yeah
<juliank> doko: Uh, StringSplit() had __attribute__((const)). Probably references are handled like pointers - so this means the compiler can assume that we only use their addresses, and thus discards any variable content.
<juliank> Sorry for the noise then
<juliank> We should really not be playing with these attributes
<juliank> I now redefined APT_CONST from __attribute__((const)) to __attribute__((pure)), so we won't have these problems anymore
<juliank> Over optimization...
<xnox> **/ end black magic
<cjwatson> might want to rename it from APT_CONST too :)
<juliank> cjwatson: I switched all users to APT_PURE, but I'll keep the macro around as it's in a public header
 * cjwatson nods
<juliank> xnox: __attribute__((const)) is really black magic.
<juliank> xnox: And fairly useless anyway. If you have such functions, chances are very high you have inlined them
<juliank> __attribute__((pure)) on the other hand is not really dangerous
<juliank> So, now I only need to fix the non-amd64 test case failure, and it should finally worj
<stgraber> cjwatson: I can't recall of a particular reason for using privileged containers other than the goal at the time was to have it behave like a chroot but with an init system running which is why I turned off just about every confinement feature we have.
<cjwatson> stgraber: I get to choose between working around https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1712808 and working around https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1709536
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1712808 in snapd "udev interface fails in privileged containers" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1709536 in systemd (Ubuntu Xenial) "snapd 2.26.14 on ubuntu-core won't start in containers anymore" [Medium,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> stgraber: looking at 1712808 I wasn't sure what else snap-related would fail in priv containers
<cjwatson> stgraber: or indeed what else the udevadm symlink hack would break ...
<stgraber> cjwatson: so we can make the container even more privileged to fix that one :)
<cjwatson> wouldn't it risk breaking thehost?
<stgraber> yes, but it already can right now. Right now there is no apparmor confinement so the container could remount /sys read/write if it wanted
<cjwatson> I mean I assumed that was why /sys is ro in privileged containers
<stgraber> adding this to raw.lxc should do the trick:
<stgraber> lxc.mount.auto=
<stgraber> lxc.mount.auto=proc:rw sys:rw
<cjwatson> ah, and I just thought of a reason launchpad-buildd shouldn't use unprivileged containers: it would stop it being able to use lxd for livefs builds
<stgraber> At which point liblxc won't do any fancy partial read-only mounts of proc and sys
<cjwatson> thanks, I'll give that a try
<cjwatson> (my acceptance test cycle is at least ten minutes so can take a while)
<juliank> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/1.5~rc1~ubuntu1 I hope everything works now...
<coreycb> doki: i've fixed the openstack component mismatches. for python-zunclient i've moved that to Suggests in heat, and I'd like to have python-zunclient moved back to universe.
<coreycb> doko: ^
<juliank> Hmm, we should remove apt-transport-https on upgrades to artful
<juliank> given that https support is now in the apt package.
<nacc> juliank: breaks/replaces that can be dropped after 18.04?
<nacc> juliank: not questioning you, testing my own recollection :)
<juliank> nacc: Oh, it's still around providing a curl binary, so you should be able to reinstall it (in case there is some bug in the new https code you need to work around). So rather something in the do-release-upgrade script thingy
<nacc> juliank: oh i see
<Mirv> doko: can you ack bug #1708428 now before Feature Freeze comes into effect so that I could still sync libvoikko too from Debian before FF?
<ubottu> bug 1708428 in hfst-ospell (Ubuntu) "[MIR] hfst-ospell" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1708428
<juliank> I don't know where that is actually done
<Mirv> or cyphermox ^
<Mirv> didier seems gone for today
<Mirv> 3.5h is plenty of time!
<Mirv> anyway, the new hfst-ospell is in ubuntu now too and ~desktop-bugs subscribed
<juliank> cjwatson: What's your opinion about .deb delta upgrades for Ubuntu, archive wise?
<juliank> I'm not sure if you've seen the ML post over in {debian{-devel,dpkg},deity}
<juliank> Deltas require two changes server side, essentially: Builders must fetch the current package version(s) and build deltas for the newly built package; and the delta debs need to be added to the archives (probably uploaded in the changes files along with the rest).
<cjwatson> juliank: saw but haven't had much time to form an opinion; it would be a non-trivial amount of work that I don't know when we'd find time for
<cjwatson> Why does delta-building belong on builders?
<cjwatson> That seems like a publisher task to me
<juliank> cjwatson: It's slow (like 1 minute for libreoffice-core on a laptop), running it on archive building hosts is probably to much of a bottleneck.
<cjwatson> Perhaps it should be something we do asynchronously and upload separately
<juliank> Yeah, the delta building does not have to be done as part of the package build, and I guess LP keeps old versions around anyway, so it should be easy to create deltas later on
<doko> Mirv: done
<doko> coreycb: ok, what about asn1crypto?
<Mirv> doko: thank you! and unping cyphermox
<juliank> cjwatson: I guess implementation wise it probably makes more sense to have a separate Deltas file rather than storing deltas for a package version as a field in the Packages file entry. Also allows us to publish deltas in a different repo than packages :D
<cjwatson> juliank: so I mean one good thing about debdelta was that it was on a separate host so could be scaled separately
<cjwatson> juliank: and there are questions about expiry policy which aren't really obvious
<cjwatson> (I haven't read the full thread though)
<juliank> cjwatson: Ah yeah, expiry policy is interesting. For Debian, my idea was to just keep "immediate" delta essentially (given an upload to release-{security,updates} generate  deltas against the latest release, release-security, release-update versions. When a new version comes in, drop old deltas.
<juliank> Does not catch everything of course :D
<juliank> Well for security it should be fine due to unattended-upgrades
<juliank> it's unlikely you miss one security update and thus not get a delta
<cjwatson> juliank: that's the sort of reason I'd rather not do deltas via uploads - hard to make it flexible enough.  and if you do them asynchronously then you have the opportunity to refine the way they're generated
<cjwatson> juliank: you might want to look at http://www.tech-foo.net/snap-updates-are-getting-smaller-heres-why.html
<juliank> Doesn't this essentially do what I describe?
<cjwatson> obviously that situation is a bit different because there's an active store webservice rather than a passive flat-file mirror, but I'm sure there are still useful lessons to be learned
<cjwatson> it's certainly somewhat similar
<cjwatson> perhaps Thomi would have useful advice to give
<juliank> I'm curious about the xdelta3 choice, bsdiff is usually much more efficient (but, well, a lot slower when generating the diff)
<juliank> Or rather my fork of bsdiff, https://github.com/julian-klode/jkdiff/ which has well defined memory requirements and can apply patches streamingly :D
<cjwatson> juliank: I wasn't much involved but I know they did extensive data analysis
<cjwatson> so worth asking
<Mirv> libvoikko synced from Debian and built
<doko> mapreri: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious/3.9-1~build1 (not yet accepting the new binaries)
<coreycb> doko: ok i've opened an MIR bug for asn1crypto: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/asn1crypto/+bug/1712904
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1712904 in asn1crypto (Ubuntu) "[MIR] asn1crypto" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> chrisccoulson: Howdy.  It seems firefox was missed for artful last couple uploads?
<Unit193> Welp, guess not.
<mapreri> doko: right, after some iterations I got the symbols files right
<sarnold> Unit193: he's on vacation for a while
<Unit193> Oh OK, thanks.
<sarnold> Unit193: last I saw he was having trouble getting rustc built on all our architectures; every arch was throwing different errors. It sounded unfun.
<sarnold> Unit193: .. especially because some arches can take more than 32 hours to build the thing
<Unit193> sarnold: Ouch yes very much so.  I'm used to seeing it FTBFS in -proposed, but it wasn't there.  Thanks very much for answering.
<Unit193> Specifically since I noticed quite a speed up in FF, so pulled the built package from zesty. :3
<Umeaboy> Hi!
<Umeaboy> Is there a fix coming for the screen settings being wrong when changing the resolution?
<Umeaboy> The desktop turns very big when changing from 3840 x 2160 (16:9) to 1920 x 1080 (16:9).
<nacc> Umeaboy: did you mean to ask in #ubuntu+1 or #ubuntu?
<Umeaboy> I'm using the Xorg driver that was installed as standard.
<Umeaboy> Isn't this the right place to ask the developers of the Xorg driver in Zesty?
<Umeaboy> nacc: ^^
<Umeaboy> Or should I go to #xorg instrad?
<Umeaboy> instead
<nacc> Umeaboy: this is for development of Ubuntu itself. I think you want support, which is in #ubuntu. Or if you have a specific developer in mind, ping them? Asking this  channel on Feature Freeze day is probably not going to get you far :)
<nacc> (my opinion)
<Umeaboy> OK.
<nacc> Umeaboy: is there a bug filed?
<nacc> Umeaboy: or perhaps you have hidpi settings still enabled when you got a normal resolution?
<mwhudson> what happened here? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/artful-changes/2017-August/008930.html
<xnox> mwhudson, it's a sync or a copy or a ressurect (copy from deleted)
<xnox> mwhudson, in this particular instance, i do believe it is undelete that was discussed on #ubuntu-release
<mwhudson> ah ok
<mwhudson> yes seems so
<mwhudson> a new bit of ubuntu trivia :)
 * xnox wishes i didn't know this stuff
<nacc> heh
<xnox> or maybe i should take up alcohol as a hobby.
<Umeaboy> xnox: I quit drinking alcoholic beverages about 16 years ago. I don't regret doing that at all.
<mwhudson> xnox: gotta get ready for NYC
<xnox> mwhudson, i'm from Hull, but even up there we did not pre-load for travelling a month in advance!
<mwhudson> i was thinking more stamina training but ok :)
#ubuntu-devel 2017-08-25
<cjwatson> stgraber: (belatedly) thanks, that worked once I fixed my idiot mistake with policy-rc.d
<Unit193> cjwatson: I must ask, is there something currently up with LP that might prevent me from getting bug mails?
<cjwatson> Unit193: not that I know of.  not going to investigate at this hour - please file a support request on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad if things continue to be weird for you
<cjwatson> Unit193: I certainly see recent (couple of days ago) attempts to notify your gmail address about a bug
<Unit193> cjwatson: Thanks for checking, and yes there should have been a couple a few days ago, and more recently too.  Checked spam as well.  I guess I'll see if it irons out.
<doko> coreycb: promoted
<coreycb> doko: thanks
<doko> coreycb: np
<doko> still some outstanding =)
<jbicha> xnox: Mirv: does src:system-image need to stay in artful?
<clivejo> anyone know what is going on with systemd?
<clivejo> 14:52:03 Created symlink /etc/systemd/system/network-online.target.wants/systemd-networkd-wait-online.service â /lib/systemd/system/systemd-networkd-wait-online.service.
<clivejo> 14:52:03 ln: cannot remove '/etc/resolv.conf'
<clivejo> 14:52:03 : Device or resource busy
<clivejo> 14:52:03 dpkg: error processing package systemd (--configure):
<clivejo> xnox: would you know? ^
<clivejo> https://paste.ubuntu.com/25389489/
<jbicha> xnox: Mirv: never mind, I found LP: #1702429
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1702429 in system-image (Ubuntu) "Please remove system-image from Ubuntu Artful" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1702429
<cyphermox> clivejo: I'd be tempted to say this is not necessarily systemd
<clivejo> cyphermox: any idea what is might be causing it?
<cyphermox> clivejo: I just looked at the kernel source about this
<cyphermox> what does mount look like?
<clivejo> Its happening on the Kubuntu CI
<acheronuk> full log: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/iso_artful_unstable_amd64/10/console
<clivejo> looks linked to this upload of systemd - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/234-2ubuntu7
<cyphermox> that's the action causing the failure, but that doesn't mean it's why things are broken
<cyphermox> in any case, I have no idea, sorry
<cyphermox> maybe xnox will know
 * acheronuk ponders blaming overlayfs or similar on that container
<cyphermox> acheronuk: it could be, actually
<acheronuk> but I'm not 100% sure how that got set up
<cyphermox> by my read, this is the kind of message  that would show up when ln -snf attempts to remove the original resolv.conf
<cyphermox> it seems like that would happen if when removing, the kernel thinks it's a local mountpoint, but I could well be wrong
<acheronuk> that is what I was sorta thinking... as a very blind stab in the dark anyway
<cyphermox> that's why I asked what 'mount' looked like
<acheronuk> thankfully these iso builds are not a crucial thing. just a 'nice to have' extra
<codepython777> https://paste.ubuntu.com/25390489/ - can anyone tell me what is wrong with my usb connection on this machine? At times it works.
<codepython777> 4.10.0-32-generic #36~16.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Wed Aug 9 09:19:02 UTC 2017 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux - I am on this
<jackpot51> I have encrypted home patches for 17.10 that have gone unlooked at. I have sent emails to the mailing list, and we have been using the patches for a while with success.
<jackpot51> Can someone help me get patches to accountsservice into Ubuntu?
<jackpot51> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/1699216
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1699216 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "Encrypted home support" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<jbicha> jackpot51: could you ping L_aney early in the morning Tuesday or later to review the accountsservice patch ?
<jackpot51> Sure think jbicha
<jackpot51> *thing*
<catbus> jsalisbury: Hi, about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/1646277, is it a kernel issue that after  installation and reboot that it doesn't switch to virtual console (1~6)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1646277 in linux (Ubuntu Xenial) "Xenial server 16.04.x will have a black screen after PXE installation" [Medium,Confirmed]
<stgraber> xnox: not sure if you're still around, but looks like the recent resolvconf change in systemd backfired: bug #1713149
<ubottu> bug 1713149 in systemd (Ubuntu) "resolv.conf symlink is broken after clean debootstrap" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713149
<jackpot51> I am trying to find the Ubuntu CD generation code again. Does someone know where it is located?
<nacc> jackpot51: livecd-rootfs
<jackpot51> Unfortunately I do not see where xorriso, or mkisofs, or genisoimage are called
<nacc> jackpot51: oh the actual iso generation? sorry, the above is the source, not hte actual builder, i think
<jackpot51> Yeah, I want to understand the ISO generation better. I have a pretty good idea of how the live squashfs is built
#ubuntu-devel 2017-08-26
* slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Zesty Released | Archive: feature freeze | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of precise-zesty | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | Patch Pilots:
<LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, gjs news?
<jbicha> LocutusOfBorg: upstream bug is https://bugzilla.gnome.org/786578
<ubottu> Gnome bug 786578 in general "gnome-shell unit test failures on armhf with gjs 1.49/mozjs52" [Normal,New]
<jbicha> also mentioned on LP: #1712800
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1712800 in mutter (Ubuntu) "FFe: gnome-shell 3.26" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1712800
<LocutusOfBorg> mmm I think I need to make it build on s390x
<LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, is it the same issue?
<LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gjs/1.49.91-0ubuntu1
<jbicha> LocutusOfBorg: we already removed gjs/s390x (well mostly, an AA needs to remove gnome-session/s390x and ubuntu-session/s390x binaries I think)
<jbicha> LP: #1712083
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1712083 in gjs (Ubuntu) "Please remove gjs/s390x" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1712083
<jbicha> armhf is more concerning since that's more of an architecture we currently support for desktop stuff
<jbicha> but if you can manage to fix s390x that would be great too (but the ubuntu-desktop metapackage isn't built for s390x)
<LocutusOfBorg> slangasek, how could it be removed without removing reverse-dependencies? libguestfs is now waiting for something that won't be there
<jbicha> because we missed some deps
<jbicha> does libguestfs really need gjs to build? because that's getting close to server stuff which we do support for s390x
<LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, uploaded without it
<jbicha> thanks
<LocutusOfBorg> lets see if somebody complains :p
<slangasek> jbicha: where do you see that {gnome,ubuntu}-session binaries need removed for s390x?  I don't see these having a dep on gjs according to reverse-depends (on other archs), and I also don't show them on the uninstallable list
<jbicha> slangasek: on excuses, they have unsat. dep on gnome-shell which would dep. on gjs
<jbicha> I guess we need to stop building those binaries for s390xâ¦
<slangasek> jbicha: ah, stuck in -proposed.  yes, someone should upload to stop it building uninstallable binaries, then we can remove the old binaries
<jbicha> slangasek: do you want me to do that now for src:gnome-session?
<slangasek> jbicha: sure
<jbicha> slangasek: done. They show up as "old binaries" on excuses now
<slangasek> jbicha: removed, thanks
#ubuntu-devel 2018-08-20
<doko> stgraber: there are lxd autopkg test failures triggered by lxd. please could you have a look?
<doko> mvo: snapd autopkg test fails on arm64, blocking glibc
<mvo> doko: looking
<mvo> doko: the error looks like a network hickup, I retriggered the run
<ahasenack> hi, could someone please click "retry" for me on the amd64 and s390x gvfs2 tests at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/xenial/update_excuses.html#samba ?
<rbasak> Done
<rbasak> cyphermox: o/ did we talk about bug 1661629 already? I don't remember exactly where we were, but I think the contributor's patch looks plausible and needs an expert review/sponsorship. I don't feel qualified.
<ubottu> bug 1661629 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "upgrade of kernel fails with mkinitramfs: failed to determine device for /" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1661629
<cyphermox> rbasak: I saw your message, I will get to it
<rbasak> Thanks
<acheronuk> tseliot: hi. I've been asked if nvidia-driver-390 390.77 is going to go in bionic updates? apparently fixes (at least in drivers ppa) some issues that keep getting brought up in #ubuntu
<tseliot> acheronuk: yes, there is a pending SRU that will bring 390.77 (LP: #1778011). I think sil2100 is going to approve the packages
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1778011 in ubuntu-drivers-common (Ubuntu Bionic) "SRU: PRIME Power Saving mode draws too much power" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778011
<acheronuk> tseliot: great. thanks :)
<tseliot> :)
<sil2100> tseliot: hey!
<tseliot> sil2100: hi
<sil2100> tseliot: sooo Steve had some concerns on the bug so I stopped mid-review
<tseliot> sil2100: what concerns?
<sil2100> tseliot: could you take a look at the bug?
<sil2100> (since he did the review before I could)
<tseliot> sil2100: sure, I'll get back to Steve in the bug report
<sil2100> I accepted gdm3 to -proposed since it was good and I noticed too late that Steve had some comments regarding the other packages
<sil2100> tseliot: hope it's not an issue that the gdm3 bits went in before the others?
<sil2100> (into -proposed that is)
<rbasak> cyphermox: thank you for looking at that!
<ahasenack> hi, can someone please click the retry icon for me in the s390x gvfs2 test of this bileto ticket? https://bileto.ubuntu.com/excuses/3364/cosmic.html
<tumbleweed> clicked
<ahasenack> tumbleweed: thanks a lot
#ubuntu-devel 2018-08-21
<doko> smb: you merged iproute2 last. Please could you have a look at the failing autopkg tests? or maybe merge it again before ff ?
<smb> doko, ack, will have a look
<smb> doko, hm, would /bin/sh change of argument list size ring any bells? That seems to be the cause. I am not sure another merge will help, though I want to do it regardless to sync with kernel versions
<doko> smb: aren't these practically unlimited these days?
<smb> doko, I would have thought so... but "make: execvp: /bin/sh: Argument list too long" sounds differently
<smb> anyhow, will dig a bit more after lunch
<jbicha> doko: pygobject builds (except on s390x) once we sync glib2.0 from experimental, but I was told to be more cautious about syncing until the big qt/ffmpeg transition finishes
<jbicha> doko: see bug 1787474
<ubottu> bug 1787474 in pygobject (Ubuntu) "pygobject fails to build in Ubuntu 18.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1787474
<doko> jbicha: cautiousness seems to be a good advice =)
<jbicha> I'm not working on the s390x issue. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pygobject/issues/247 upstream wishes we had a pytest-faulthandler package
<ahasenack> doko: hi, good morning/afternoon. ldb is a sync, and stuck in proposed because it needs talloc >= 2.1.13, are you about to merge that by any chance?
<ahasenack> debian has 2.1.14
<abeato> sil2100, https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-image/pull/158 is ready for review - there are some CI error but those do not look related to the PR
<wxl> i just notice the live cd for lubuntu (and kubuntu, haven't tested others) has an empty menuentry in grub for "boot to first hard disk." what do i change to fix this?
<ahasenack> hi, can someone please sync ldb from debian? It fixes the FTBFS for arm, ppc and s390x
<ahasenack> ldb (2:1.4.0+really1.3.5-2) unstable; urgency=high
<ahasenack>   * Add patch from upstream to fix FTBFS on some arches (arm64, armhf, mips,
<ahasenack>     mipsel, s390x, ...)
<ahasenack> ours: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldb/2:1.4.0+really1.3.5-1 (see the build failures)
<ahasenack> https://salsa.debian.org/samba-team/ldb/commit/81ac821d1ba0c7b39c53b5e7174155a559063e0d patch debian used
<mdeslaur> ahasenack: sure, one sec
<ahasenack> mdeslaur: thx!
<mdeslaur> ahasenack: synced
<ahasenack> \o/
<ahasenack> mdeslaur: \o/ it build successfully on s390 and ppc already: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldb/2:1.4.0+really1.3.5-2
<ahasenack> built*
<mdeslaur> sweet :)
<ahasenack> that was fast
<wxl> ^^ regarding the issue booting to first disk on the live cd, it affects ubuntu as well. as far as supported releases go, it seems that has been this way since xenial
<wxl> trusty works. it's possible utopic, vivid, wily didn't.
<Odd_Bloke> GNOME have moved some of their bug tracking from Bugzilla to Gitlab, do we have a way of linking to such upstream bug reports from Launchpad?
<jbicha> Odd_Bloke: not yet, see bug 1738870
<ubottu> bug 1738870 in Launchpad itself "GNOME Bug Tracker link points to Bugzilla and not GitLab" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1738870
<aleb> Hi, I see this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pitivi/+bug/1748787 "pitivi crashed with AttributeError in ..." but I don't see any C backtrace, only a Python traceback in the bug description. The traceback cannot cause a crash/segfault, so I'm wondering why the bug title says "crash", any clue?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1748787 in pitivi (Ubuntu) "pitivi crashed with AttributeError in _create_next_thumb(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'seek'" [Medium,New]
<ahasenack> hi, can someone please accept the xenial task of this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/1771340
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1771340 in openssh (Ubuntu) "sshd failed on config reload" [Low,Triaged]
<sarnold> looks like osmeone beat me to it :)
<ahasenack> thanks anyway :)
<Unit193> Hm, that reminds me of the whole openssl 1.1 / openssh thing...
<mwhudson> how much ram do the ppc64el autopkgtest workers have?
#ubuntu-devel 2018-08-22
<stgraber> xnox: FYI bug 1788314
<ubottu> bug 1788314 in zfs-linux (Ubuntu) "Conflict between zfs-linux and s390-tools" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1788314
<seb128> tsimonq2, hey, did you notice that your apport upload to cosmic is screwed? you removed some systemd units from the debian dir and the diff includes .bzrignore .bzr-builddeb  and .git noise
<sunweaver> ricotz: could you take a look at Debian bugs #836288 and #897694 and give some direction for a solution? (it is about plank upstream)
<ubottu> Debian bug 836288 in src:plank "plank: please use dbus-run-session to run tests" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/836288
<ubottu> Debian bug 897694 in plank "plank: Shouldn't plank depends on dbus-x11 cause it's not working properly without it" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/897694
<sunweaver> my sense is that dbus-x11 is not the correct approach these days, but going the dbus-run-session route.
<sunweaver> could you work on a patch?
<sunweaver> oh well, maybe dbus-x11 is needed to solve #897694...
<sunweaver> thanks for any feedback given...
<ricotz> sunweaver, hi, yes, switching to dbus-run-session is reasonable, as the bug reports describes this should be pretty straightforward to do
<sunweaver> ricotz: what is the state of plank btw. any new upstream release coming before the end of the year? (Debian freeze)
<ricotz> sunweaver, yes, I should do one soon
<sunweaver> ok. Can you add the dbus-run-session support then with it?
<ricotz> yes
<sunweaver> ok, thanks. Removing that item from my list then.
<sunweaver> Thanks!
<xnox> stgraber, ouch!
 * sunweaver is currently doing bulk uploads to get the Vcs-*: fields correct for all my packages.
<ricotz> sunweaver, this might be interesting too https://launchpad.net/%7Ericotz/+archive/ubuntu/cosmic-vala-42/+packages?start=0&memo=0&batch=200
<ricotz> sunweaver, if it contains a package which you are working on
<sunweaver> ricotz: arctica-greeter -> ouch.
<ricotz> those failures are mostly easy to fix
<sunweaver> ricotz: libdbusmenu -> ouch
<sunweaver> why is libdbusmenu related to vala 0.42?
<sunweaver> it is C lib
<sunweaver> (with a vapi file, possibly)
<ricotz> it at least build-deps on valac
<sunweaver> slick-greeter fails, too.
<sunweaver> but unity-greeter not.
<sunweaver> interesting...
<ricotz> a lot of vala-unrelated failure too
<ricotz> if it is vala-related then they fail because of "error: Property `Background.current_background' with custom `get' accessor and/or `set' mutator cannot have `default' value"
<sunweaver> ah, arctica-greeter has been fixed upstream already.
<sunweaver> I have some more changes in mind before I do a release.
 * sunweaver should hurry with that then.
<ricotz> 0.41.92-1 is still in NEW/exp
<sunweaver> background.vala:447.5-447.37: error: Property `Background.current_background' with custom `get' accessor and/or `set' mutator cannot have `default' value
<sunweaver> yeah, that one is new.
<sunweaver> let me see...
<ricotz> those default values can be dropped without further action if they e.g. null / 0 / 0.0
<ricotz> otherwise they should be moved into the constructor or made a field-initializer
<sunweaver> let me see...
<sunweaver> ricotz: how is this? http://paste.debian.net/1038857/
<ricotz> diff -U20 ?
<sunweaver> http://paste.debian.net/1038860/
<sunweaver> what about declarations/assignments like these...
<sunweaver> "public double alpha { get; private set; default = 1.0; }" ?
<ricotz> only custom properties are affected
<sunweaver> ack.
<ricotz> the patch seems fine if you are familiar with the code base since this is a behaviour change
<eoli4n> Hi
<ricotz> sunweaver, setting the default intends to have it set once at object creation
<sunweaver> I guess my change is actual the wanted behaviour...
<ricotz> which doesn't work as one expect for custom properties therefore the new error
<ricotz> yeah, seems that way
<GunnarHj> rbasak, sil2100: What's the next step as regards the SRUs of bug #1778041? I have added to the bug report a link to an IRC conversion rbasak and I had last week, where the possibility to ship empty packages was mentioned. But the uploads also miss binary packages of certain archs, and such a measure wouldn't address that aspect. So is the latter considered a problem? Or put in another way: Considering that we don't seem to be
<GunnarHj> able to consistently help certain users to keep their systems clean of dropped packages, is it motivated to do it for those libpdf and nacl packages which are said to be not functioning anyway?
<ubottu> bug 1778041 in freshplayerplugin (Ubuntu Xenial) "browser-plugin-freshplayer-pepperflash broken" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778041
<rbasak> GunnarHj: thank you for driving this bug. I won't be around for the next few weeks now, so I'm trying to avoid making any decisions that I won't be around to stand behind. I wanted to make sure we didn't go wrong on this point, but I'm happy for sil2100 to make the final decision.
<rbasak> s/but//
<rbasak> (or, if it had to be my decision, I'd ask infinity probably)
<GunnarHj> rbasak: Ok, thanks for letting me know. Will talk with sil2100 about it, then.
<ahasenack> tjaalton: heh, I was just about to ask you about sssd 1.16.3 :)
<ahasenack> releasing package sssd version 1.16.3-1
<ahasenack> Timo Aaltonen authored 1 hour ago
<roaksoax> doko: howdy! is twisted broken on cosmic ? will the new update to 18.7 fix it ?
<roaksoax> doko: i got a build failure with https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/P4pGG8RyFJ/
<jbicha> acheronuk: so you have 2 copies of all the KDE autopkgtests running, 1 for the archive & 1 for a bileto ppa? ð¢
<jbicha> can we kill those bileto tests?
<acheronuk> jbicha: umm what? that wasn't intended!
<jbicha> I'm looking at https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running ð
<acheronuk> jbicha: damn. usually I avoid that by lander sign off followed by publish immediately. I got called away from PC this morning at that time, so I guess was too slow
<seb128> cyphermox, hey. modemmanager 1.8 is available, do you think you could update our package (and maybe Debian's)?
<acheronuk> jbicha: if they can be killed, please do!
<jbicha> juliank: sil2100: slangasek: it would be appreciated if one of you could kill the #3374 ppa autopkgtests. Not sure if that's easy to do or not
<juliank> jbicha: huh hmm
<juliank> I can kill a running process, but I don't know how to remove it from the queue
<juliank> so it would just go back in front of it
<slangasek> jbicha: do I understand these packages are already published and the test results won't be used for the ppa?
<jbicha> yes
<slangasek> ok
<jbicha> https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3374
<slangasek> juliank: from the cloud-worker, you can use autopkgtest-cloud/tools/filter-amqp to nuke things from the queue
<juliank> slangasek: oh cool
<slangasek> juliank: example: for arch in amd64 armhf i386 pp864el s390x; do autopkgtest-cloud/tools/filter-amqp <amqp creds go here> debci-ppa-cosmic-${arch} -v ci-train-ppa-service/3375; done
<jbicha> slangasek: 3374 please ð
<slangasek> did I do the wrong one? shoot
<slangasek> cpaelzer: ^^ sorry, I accidentally shot your autopkgtests out of the queue for https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3375
<slangasek> also apparently I can't spell 'ppc64el' so let me fix that :P
<tjaalton> ahasenack: ah, right. there's also 2.0.0
<ahasenack> tjaalton: yeah, but I was looking at the security fixes in 1.16.3 compared to 1.16.2, and ubuntu feature-freezes tomorrow
<cpaelzer> slangasek: all of them or just one?
<slangasek> cpaelzer: all of them that were in the queue... except I didn't kill them on ppc64el due to a typo
<cpaelzer> hehe
<cpaelzer> and I have one result on ppc being good :-)
<cpaelzer> thanks for the notice
<cpaelzer> what I have is barely enough to go on
<cpaelzer> good that I don't wait for completion
<cjwatson> roaksoax: There's a fix for that in cosmic-proposed which hasn't made it to cosmic yet
<cjwatson> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=906215 is part of it but apparently twisted's own autopkgtests are failing too
<ubottu> Debian bug 906215 in src:foolscap "foolscap autopkgtest needs update for new version of twisted" [Normal,Open]
<roaksoax> cjwatson: yes, I saw. thanks.
<roaksoax> cjwatson: i'm guessing this is a dependency that broke things? Becuase I built packages yesterday that depend on twisted and it didn't fail. Where as today it does with the same dependencies
<psusi> ok, what the heck?  I apt-get source qemu, dpkg-buildpackage, and qemu-system-* have extra deps that the one in the archive does not, including libcapstone3
<cjwatson> roaksoax: Python 3.6 -> 3.7, presumably
<rbasak> psusi: are you using a clean chroot for the build? If not, configure scripts inside package builds can pick up extra dependencies and decide to build against them.
<cjwatson> roaksoax: Though I thought cosmic's default was still 3.6
<psusi> ahh, I had previously tried building from the debian git repo and it had a few more deps it seems
<psusi> that I guess are optional and we had them off
<psusi> hrm.. guess I should set up pbuilder again
<nacc> psusi: i'd recommend build over pbuilder, fwiw
<psusi> there's a new one?  I remember there being schroot and pbuilder
<nacc> psusi: sorry, typo! sbuild :)
<psusi> ahh, forgot about that one
<tsimonq2> seb128: I didn't O_O sorry.
<tsimonq2> seb128: Want me to just revert it or is it handled already?
<ahasenack> what does this do in debian/control, when there is no debian/tests? Testsuite: autopkgtest-pkg-python
<Unit193> ahasenack: Basically, tries to import it.  See autodep8(1)
<seb128> tsimonq2, it's not handled that I know of but I didn't follow up during the day, maybe best if you fix it
<xnox> psusi, on both debian & ubuntu -> $ mk-sbuild cosmic
<xnox> $ sbuild -A -d cosmic *.dsc
<psusi> jbicha: say, what difference does it make whether gparted is in /usr/sbin or /usr/bin?
* slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: open (Cosmic Cuttlefish) | 18.04 released | Devel of Ubuntu (not support) | Build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of Trusty-Bionic | If you can't send messages here, authenticate to nickserv first
<jbicha> psusi: ha, you're asking me about testing I did last year. I don't remember the details except that I guess it didn't run
<psusi> odd... wonder why... I've merged your changes with a new upstream release I'm preparing for debian... was just wondering why it mattered either way
<jbicha> it should be pretty easy to check. You can drop the change if it works fine without it
<xnox> psusi, policykit things hardcoding a path or something?
<psusi> AFAIK, it should work fine either way
<xnox> is my best guess
<xnox> indeed
<psusi> so I merged it and as long as it works in debian... it's fine I guess
<ahasenack> tjaalton: hi, you seem to have included a patch file in the root directory of sssd 1.16.3
<ahasenack> --- sssd-1.16.3.orig/0001-common.dirs-common.postinst-Add-dir-for-secrets-with.patch
<ahasenack> +++ sssd-1.16.3/0001-common.dirs-common.postinst-Add-dir-for-secrets-with.patch
<ahasenack> in the debian .diff.gz file (source package)
<tjaalton> bah
<ahasenack> 1.16.2-1 is clean, doesn't have it
<tjaalton> doesn't matter
<ahasenack> was just checking if I hadn't overlooked it before
<tjaalton> .2 was uploaded from another machine
<ahasenack> this 1.16.3 can be a sync with ubuntu
<ahasenack> our delta was adopted upstream
<ahasenack> er, sync with debian
<tjaalton> need me to sync it?
<ahasenack> no, I'll just make a formal mp to have a record
<tjaalton> k
<ahasenack> should be synced tomorrow my morning
<ahasenack> tjaalton: fyi, the freeipa dep8 tests are failing but exiting 0, giving a false green status: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/freeipa/cosmic/amd64
<ahasenack> scroll to the end
<ahasenack> they "all" end with a backtrace, but "PASS"
<ahasenack> debian is a few versions behind I think
<ahasenack> I'll file a bug, and take a look when I cna
<ahasenack> I'll add dep8 tests to sssd this cycle still
<tjaalton> it's in limbo atm
<tjaalton> new dogtag is WIP, freeipa 4.7 too
<tjaalton> and I'm on paternity leave
<tjaalton> so most of it has to wait until next month
<ahasenack> it's the only test than an sssd upload triggers, more reason for me to add a set of sssd specific tests
<ahasenack> which I'll MP to debian, of course :)
<ahasenack> tjaalton: congrats on the parenthood :)
<tjaalton> thx
<tjaalton> ahasenack: btw, any plans to merge latest tomcat8? it finally adds a systemd unit
<tumbleweed> with the next tomcat8 upload, we should be able to sync again, going from the conversation in bugs.debian.org/895866
<tjaalton> tumbleweed: check the ubuntu changelog..
<tjaalton> apparently what debian did wasn't enough
<tumbleweed> tjaalton: I wrote that changelog entry
<nacc> heh
<tjaalton> tumbleweed: so you're saying it's not needed?
<tjaalton> the patch
<tumbleweed> they're taken another shot at the problem, upstream, and .33 hopefully won't need it any more
<tjaalton> ah, .33
<tjaalton> cool
<tjaalton> I thought you meant .32-2 :P
#ubuntu-devel 2018-08-23
<acheronuk> tjaalton: hi. is there likely to be a bionic update with this added -dev package? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxcb/1.13-2
<tjaalton> acheronuk: possibly
<tjaalton> I can upload it and see what happens
<acheronuk> tsimonq2: just wondered. the only place I might need it so far is our (Kubuntu's) backports PPA, so I could always build that revision in there if push comes to shove
<acheronuk> tjaalton I mean
<tjaalton> acheronuk: but would help if you'd modify #1777994 and add the sru header with the rationale
<acheronuk> ok.
<Riddell> infinity: hola, me and acheronuk are trying to look into a problem in ubiquity in bionic.  a console-setup update makes it skip keyboard & wireless pages.  consistent in ubuntu and kubuntu
<Riddell> infinity: this seems to be the problem change http://launchpadlibrarian.net/382474004/console-setup_1.178ubuntu2.4_1.178ubuntu2.5.diff.gz
<Riddell> infinity: would you know what's up with it? my bash isn't good enough to read that
<Riddell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/console-setup/+bug/1788597
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1788597 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "ubiquity broken with console-setup 1.178ubuntu2.5" [Undecided,New]
<ahasenack> tjaalton: sorry, I don't know about tomcat8
<tjaalton> ahasenack: no worrie
<tjaalton> s
<ahasenack> tjaalton: just synced sssd: [ubuntu/cosmic-proposed] sssd 1.16.3-1 (Accepted)
<tjaalton> cool
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, could you push you n-m upload from july to the packaging vcs?
<cyphermox> seb128: done
<seb128> cyphermox, thx!
<Odd_Bloke> I was just emailed about my membership in an upload team (~ubuntu-cloud-uploaders) expiring; what's the process to get it extended?
<ahasenack> doko: around?
<ahasenack> doko: I think the orig tarball for paramiko 2.4.1 was incorrectly packaged
<ahasenack> doko: the dep8 failures are due to missing *.pub files in tests/cert_support
<ahasenack> which are there in the upstream 2.4.1 targz: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/GKgxv64t2K/
<xnox> Odd_Bloke, click the link in the email?
<xnox> should be self-service
 * xnox almost expired out of core-dev like that
<Odd_Bloke> No link: "To prevent this membership from expiring, you should contact the team's administrator, Ubuntu Developer Membership Board (developer-membership-board)."  Should I just email the ML?
<jbicha> Odd_Bloke: yes, please email the list, we probably want to change that setting to allow self-renewal like other teams
<Odd_Bloke> Ack, will do.
<Odd_Bloke> Thanks!
<xnox> Odd_Bloke, yeah, looks buggy
<ahasenack> doko: others: hi, this fixes the paramiko dep8 failures in cosmic-proposed: https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/ubuntu/+source/paramiko/+git/paramiko/+merge/353660
<ahasenack> if someone could give it a review, I can then upload the package
<ahasenack> (team policy: need a +1 before uploading)
<psusi> jbicha: why is dh_translations used in Ubuntu but not Debian?
<psusi> I put that part back and think I'm ready to upload
<jbicha> psusi: because Ubuntu uses language packs and Debian does not. dh_translations doesn't exist in Debian
<psusi> jbicha: that doesn't mean Debian is English only does it?  Is the difference that in Debian, all translations for each package are shipped with that package all the time, but in Ubuntu, we collect translations from all packages and put them into a language pack for each language that contains translations for all packages for that language?
<tumbleweed> pretty much. Except, not all packages, just main, I think?
<psusi> hrm... kind of a sucky tradeoff eh?  you either get translations for packages you don't have installed, or you get translations for languages you don't speak...
<psusi> and I guess Ubuntu thinks the former is better and Debian the latter?
<tumbleweed> it's not like they're that enormous
<tumbleweed> but I think this was an optimization to get CD sizes down
<psusi> hrm... which seems to be less of a concern these days...
<mdeslaur> that wasn't really the motivation
<mdeslaur> in Ubuntu, translation teams can translate software using launchpad
<psusi> ohh, and the langpack can be updated without having to rebuild the package?
<tumbleweed> ah, right
<jbicha> packages in main are quite a bit more likely to have patches that add or modify translatable strings
<psusi> and debian doesn't accept translations that aren't in the upstream package?
<mdeslaur> the langpack is based on launchpad translations, so software that has incomplete upstream translations can get improved
<tumbleweed> psusi: debian has no objection with that (but individual package maintainers can have weird objections)
<jbicha> it's just difficult to coordinate translations for patches without using something like Launchpad
<psusi> right... and they don't do that, so it's up to each maintainer to patch the package with new translations and rebuild the package
<psusi> I see now
<jbicha> I have seen some GNOME patches we carry in Ubuntu that Debian can't really take because the extra feature would not easily be translated in Debian
<jbicha> GNOME bug 737362 is one example
<ubottu> Gnome bug 737362 in Privacy "Privacy panel is missing switch to disable captive portal detection" [Normal,Reopened] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737362
<jbicha> that bug is especially frustrating ð©
<psusi> hey, isn't it a problem using pbuilder in debian for uploading?  doesn't debuild -S make one .changes file and pbuilder makes another for the binary, but deian wants you to dput a single .changes file with source and binary?
<jbicha> you should do a https://wiki.debian.org/SourceOnlyUpload
<psusi> ahh, they did start taking source only, good
<tumbleweed> also, mergechanges
#ubuntu-devel 2018-08-24
<seb128> does anyone understand that build failure in cosmic?
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/385132372/buildlog_ubuntu-cosmic-arm64.gnome-control-center_1%3A3.29.90-1~ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
<seb128> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<seb128>  sbuild-build-depends-gnome-control-center-dummy : Depends: locales but it is not going to be installed
<seb128> but installing locales works in a pbuilder
<Unit193> seb128: The one in -proposed?
<Faux> locales has all kinds of weird conflict, you get that error for conflicts, right?
<seb128> Unit193, it's an upload to cosmic so I guess it builds with proposed yes, but I've proposed enabled in my pbuilder as well
<seb128> Faux, I get that error in a cosmic upload
<Unit193> Ah good, and the latter was my question.
<acheronuk> suceeded on amd64, i386 and armhf, but failed on arm64, ppc64el and s390x?
<abeato> sil2100, hey, I see you merged the no-fakeroot PR, thanks. I have rebased https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-image/pull/155 , and was wondering on what you think about removal of /boot/grub. Would you be happy if I remove the contents of it instead?
<seb128> acheronuk, doh, you are right, I though I saw it failing on all arches but indeed not
<seb128> so yeah, I guess side effect from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/2.28-0ubuntu1
<seb128> that was uploaded after ff without a ffe
<seb128> :/
<acheronuk> I would guess it is that
<acheronuk> seb128: I have seen no freeze announcement yet, though schedule says it should be there. however, I did see at least one person suggest they might ask for it to be pushed back a week
<seb128> ah, I wouldn't say no to that :)
<sil2100> abeato: hey! I still need to re-review that and re-evaluate, might be that I'd be good with the change, or request just the content removal
<abeato> sil2100, alright, will wait for that then, thanks
<ahasenack> is it ok/correct for python3-numpy to pull in *both* python3.6 and python 3.7?
<ahasenack> Depends: python3 (<< 3.8), python3 (>= 3.6~), python3.6:any, python3.7:any, python3:any (>= 3.3.2-2~), ...
<ahasenack> that is making python3.7 available to other python modules on the system, modules which do not support 3.7 yet
<ahasenack> for example, they use methods with "async" as a keyword argument
<ahasenack> python3-libcloud is one such package
<ahasenack> example: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/Kn77DXfxR5/
<ahasenack> works before installing python3-numpy, fails after
<ahasenack> and it doesn't even use numpy
<kyrofa> Hey slangasek, wanted to circle back on the inability to install snaps in armhf autopkgtests: mvo gave making it a work a valiant effort, but was unable to get snapd working in such a scenario (https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5621#issuecomment-415677092) . Do we have any alternatives regarding that lxc profile?
<mvo> kyrofa: yeah, sorry, unless someone like StÃ©phane has new ideas I think we hit a wall
<kyrofa> mvo, understood, I appreciate the effort :)
<slangasek> kyrofa: my expectation was that the snapd team might tell us some other changes we should make to relax security in that container so that snapd does work... they are already privileged containers and it's not a concern for us to make them a little more privileged
* slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Feature Freeze (Cosmic Cuttlefish) | 18.04 released | Devel of Ubuntu (not support) | Build failures: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of Trusty-Bionic | If you can't send messages here, authenticate to nickserv first
<cjwatson> slangasek: you might like to look at the collection of hacks that launchpad-buildd uses to make it work
<cjwatson> those were based on discussions with StÃ©phane
<cjwatson> search for raw_lxc_config
<slangasek> kyrofa: what's the quickest way for me to test if snapd is happy with these profile changes?  I have snapd running but I think we got that far before; I'm now getting a failure contacting the snap store but I'm not sure if I've missed a proxy setting
<kyrofa> slangasek, oh darn, you can't contact the store?
<slangasek> kyrofa: at the moment; but the autopkgtest environment is meant to have networking, hence I think it's probably a proxy config error on my test container
<stgraber> apw: are you the best contact for the ubuntu-fan autopkgtest?
<stgraber> apw: trying to figure out what's going on with it on some arches... like here https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-cosmic/cosmic/ppc64el/u/ubuntu-fan/20180824_171705_dff12@/log.gz
<kyrofa> slangasek, can you apt install snapcraft?
<stgraber> apw: I have no idea what that sd_bus_open_system is or where it's coming from, it's showing "FAIL" despite showing PASS two lines above so kinda confusing :)
<kyrofa> If so, create a new directory, then run `snapcraft init`, then make snap/snapcraft.yaml look like this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zSdZm3hFRS/
<slangasek> kyrofa: ok sorted my proxy deal, adding it to /etc/environment was sufficient
<kyrofa> Ah, okay
<slangasek> apt installing now
<kyrofa> slangasek, if you can  hit the store, just `sudo snap install hello` and run `hello.universe`
<kyrofa> No need to use snapcraft
<slangasek> ok so I've tried all the settings from launchpad (with the exception of mount.auto and network which don't appear relevant) and I still get the apparmor errors from cosmic snapd in the container
<xnox> stgraber, i believe apw is out for a few weeks =/ i guess try bjf or some such?
<stgraber> smb: I think you touched ubuntu-fan not too long ago too ^
<stgraber> anyway, I guess I'll setup a test system to see what's up with that, hopefully it's something pretty simple and we can unstick LXD
<xnox> stgraber, the patches touch Makefile.am & configure.ac, and they were generated with automake-1.15 yet cosmic now has automake-1.16 thus autopkgtests now fail.
<xnox> stgraber, i wonder if automake needs to be added to build-deps explicitely somehow and/or autoregen needs to be run by the autopkgtest or something
<xnox> e.g. https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-cosmic/cosmic/i386/l/lxc/20180824_181711_74458@/log.gz
<xnox> somehow src/config/missing tries to run aclocal-1.15 which is no longer available
<stgraber> xnox: oh, great, we finally have autopkgtest results for that one :)
<tsimonq2> Odd_Bloke: Bumped you another year, but the DMB should really set that to autorenew. ;)
<xnox> stgraber, hahahahhahaha
<xnox> stgraber, yes, the KDE DDoS is almost over
<stgraber> xnox: I think "autoreconf -f -i" should take care of that, what do you think?
<xnox> i wonder if that should just run a single pass with all-proposed=1 rather than all the cross-combinations of all the things.
<xnox> stgraber, yes, and i thought debian/rules do that already anyway....
<stgraber> xnox: debian/rules does, debian/tests/exercise doesn't
<xnox> stgraber, not sure if this is specific to debian/tests/exercise code path
<xnox> stgraber, right
<stgraber> kinda surprise that didn't hit us before
<Odd_Bloke> tsimonq2: Thanks!
<xnox> stgraber, i think automake-1.16 has only migrated half-way throught the autopkgtest doom
<xnox> and it was automake 1.15 since like pre-xenial
<stgraber> xnox: uploaded the autoreconf fix, hopefully that'll work
<xnox> thanks
<stgraber> and will take less than a day before I get a result :)
<xnox> stgraber, we shall find out on tuesday
<xnox> =)))) holidays here
<stgraber> I'm traveling for the next two weeks but should still have time to deal with getting all my stuff to move to the release pocket and prepare the SRUs
<tsimonq2> Odd_Bloke: No problem; I went ahead and fixed ACls.
<tsimonq2> *ACLs
<tsimonq2> infinity: Speaking of ACLs and such, since I just sent the email for the Ubuntu Membership Board, how's the TB stuff coming? All I remember is that you kept asking wxl to keep applying another round of Democracyâ¢.
<tsimonq2> infinity: Perhaps it just needs sabdfl to get the ball rolling?
<infinity> tsimonq2: That exactly.  It's in his hands, and *shrug*
<stgraber> xnox: looks like that worked
<stgraber> xnox: green on s390x now
<xnox> stgraber, whoop whoop
#ubuntu-devel 2018-08-25
<stgraber> in case anyone is looking at the python3-lxc regression in -proposed, don't bother, it's been tracked down and I'm expecting a fix in the lxc package hopefully tomorrow
<srn_prgmr> I need to compare source versions of two different kernels for trusty, and apparently only the latest source is on the public apt servers. Is http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git-repos/ubuntu/ubuntu-trusty.git the remote I should be using for git? It's complaining it can't find objects such as c225e2d0edf593f144479eeb15275905aee3d6aa .
<srn_prgmr> One of our customers is complaining about file system corruption that my best estimate would have started happening with 3.13.0-157.207 and I want to test the individual differences between it and 3.13.0-156.206 as I believe based on their reports that's when it was introduced, but it's hard for me to do that without the source.
#ubuntu-devel 2018-08-26
<alkisg> Hi, x11vnc in 18.04 has stack smashing, and it's solved with a debian "microrelease" in cosmic. I don't think microreleases need SRUs, right? What would it take for the cosmic version to be uploaded to bionic?
<tsimonq2> alkisg: Every update that isn't a security update or a backport is an SRU. :)
<tsimonq2> alkisg: Have a peek here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#New_upstream_microreleases
<alkisg> tsimonq2: thanks, so someone (e.g. me :)) would need to get it through all the SRU steps...
<alkisg> I'll file an SRU then!
#ubuntu-devel 2019-08-19
<cpaelzer> jdstrand: interesting in all local autopkgtests the only occurring issue was the output order change (which was reliable)
<cpaelzer> thanks for the info, I'll take a second look at it
<cpaelzer> jdstrand: yes the ufw patch was for for compatibility with iptables 1.8.3
<cpaelzer> odd that it seems to hang on the tests
<cpaelzer> the upload itself (as you have seen in the MP that I set you as reviewer to be aware) just adds another allowed result for one of the tests
<cpaelzer> Locutusofborg: it worked in local autpkgtest VMs, but it seems something odd happened on the actual upload
<cpaelzer> Locutusofborg: I don't know details yet
<cpaelzer> hmm, I see a bunch of those tests all 37 minutes old - so I assume one of you has recently restarted them
<cpaelzer> that seemed reasonable as half of them was failing on some unrelated kernel install dependency
<cpaelzer> but is seems they now all fail at Test get_netfilter_capabilities() ...
<cpaelzer> that matches the long running/hanging tests ahasenack has seen
<cpaelzer> this test just worked before, even against iptables 1.8.3
<cpaelzer> I have alocal VM based run ongoing hoping that it breaks there as well
<cpaelzer> jdstrand: Locutusofborg: I started to track things in bug 1840633
<ubottu> bug 1840633 in ufw (Ubuntu) "autopkgtests get stuck in Eoan with iptables 1.8.3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840633
<cpaelzer> interesting this fail is not part of the test but instead part of the build it does for "build-needed"
<cpaelzer> There are 13 stuck tests in the queue hanging I'll ask to cancel them
<cpaelzer> actually where would I ask for that ... ?
<cpaelzer> let me spam the channels a bit :-/
<cpaelzer> There are currently 13 UFW tests on http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running#pkg-ufw; all are stuck on "Test get_netfilter_capabilities() ..." in the "build-needed" stage. This will not recover due to bug 1840633. It would be great if someone could cancel them. FYI: Since I don't exactly know who can do this I posted this on multiple channels.
<ubottu> bug 1840633 in ufw (Ubuntu) "autopkgtests get stuck in Eoan with iptables 1.8.3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840633
<rbasak> jamespage: o/ did you manage to look at mysql-router from my PPA at all? I'm about to add it to src:mysql-8.0 in the archive, so now would be a good time to fix any problems :)
<seb128> cpaelzer, hey, thx for the zsys MIR review!
<cpaelzer> np
<cpaelzer> I had a lot to criticize and request, I wonder that you are so happy about it :-)
<EoflaOE> Hello, what is the purpose of this channel?
<cpaelzer> EoflaOE: see title "Devel of Ubuntu (not support)"
<cpaelzer> EoflaOE: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList for an overview of Ubuntu channels
<EoflaOE> cpaelzer: Thanks, but is this channel also for requesting packages?
<cpaelzer> EoflaOE: I doubt a lot will happen if you just post that here, there is much more of an official process and usually done together with Debian (unless it is explicitly Ubuntu-only for some reason) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<cpaelzer> step1 usually is finding someone to package and maintain it
<EoflaOE> cpaelzer: Thanks.
<seb128> cpaelzer, right, well I didn't read the details of the review yet so will comment on that in a bit ... :-)
<dwmw2> tkamppeter: is there any way I can import your NetworkManager 1.10.14-0ubuntu2 packages from bionic-proposed into a PPA of my own without rebuilding them?
<dwmw2> my users really need the fix for CVE-2018-1000135
<ubottu> GNOME NetworkManager version 1.10.2 and earlier contains a Information Exposure (CWE-200) vulnerability in DNS resolver that can result in Private DNS queries leaked to local network's DNS servers, while on VPN. This vulnerability appears to have been fixed in Some Ubuntu 16.04 packages were fixed, but later updates removed the fix. cf. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/17... (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-1000135)
<ddstreet> rbalint what's the plan for systemd in eoan?  seems it's back to 240-6ubuntu9 now, will e get released with that version?
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, did you manage to get anywhere with ffmpeg/armhf?
<cyphermox> seb128: negative, but will be looking into this today
<seb128> cyphermox, k, thx
<seb128> I'm pondering going ahead with the poppler transition since ff is coming and libvpx isn't getting nearer from being unblocked
<seb128> but that would probably not be popular with some persons...
<cyphermox> well tbh I'd look more into libvpx thans others myself
<mwhudson> i'm completely confused by the blockage around hugo in proposed
<mwhudson> i think there might be some circular dependencies going on ...
#ubuntu-devel 2019-08-20
<vorlon> mwhudson: autopkgtest retries needed with all-proposed=1?
<vorlon> ah, no, the package is dep-wait
<mwhudson> vorlon: yeah it's build-side
<mwhudson> vorlon: i think someone must have uploaded things in a very careful order to debian while we weren't importing, or something like that
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, did you get anywhere with ffmpeg/armhf?
<tjaalton> what's wrong with my sbuilder.. it refuses to install libudev-dev/libsystemd-dev
<tjaalton> eoan
<tjaalton> proposed enabled or not doesn't matter
<seb128> tjaalton, what's the error?
<tjaalton> Depends: libsystemd-dev but it is not going to be installed
<tjaalton> is libudev-dev gone?
<tjaalton>  libudev-dev : Depends: libudev1 (= 240-6ubuntu9) but 243~rc1-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
<tjaalton> ah
<tjaalton> proposed had that version for a while it seems
<tjaalton> but no longer
<seb128> 243~rc1 had been deleted from proposed because not ready
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> has*
<tjaalton> had to downgrade libudev1, libsystemd0 that's all
<lennyb> Hi, what is a procedure to import pkg to Ubuntu bionic. This pkg exists in debian (https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=sourcenames&keywords=networking-mlnx )
<rbasak> lennyb: that depends. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports. I suggest you start with a PPA though.
<rbasak> lennyb: looks like it was removed from Bionic because of an incompatiblity with neutron
<rbasak> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/networking-mlnx/+publishinghistory
<Locutusofborg> cpaelzer, hello, nspr sync?
<cpaelzer> I haven't looked at nspr for a while Locutusofborg
<Locutusofborg> I'm trying a sync on my ppa... lets see
<Locutusofborg> I'm not sure if the fix was about a build failure or something else... debian might have fixed it differently
<cpaelzer> yeah
<cpaelzer> I'm not 100% sure that "Set LD_LIBRARY_PATH when running tests. Closes: #925790" covers what we had to do
<cpaelzer> if it builds fine in your ppa then you should be good to go
<cpaelzer> at least it is the same debian bug that our delta was created for
<cpaelzer> and LD_LIBRARY_PATH should be cleaner than relying on --disable-new-dtags implicitly changing the rpaths
 * cpaelzer would never have thought LD_LIBRARY_PATH could be the cleaner solution than anything else
<Locutusofborg> LOL
<Locutusofborg> that one was good!
<Locutusofborg> and it works LOL
<lennyb> rbasak, thanks. We have some bug fixes that we would like to backport into Debian. how can I know on which debian version this failed pkg was based on? Are there any logs
<rbasak> lennyb: examine debian/changelog, and you might find my writeup at http://www.justgohome.co.uk/blog/2015/01/ubuntu-package-versions.html helpful
<GunnarHj> Hi Locutusofborg, do you possibly have time to sponsor bug #1731459? Only upstream patch. Pre-verified via PPA.
<ubottu> bug 1731459 in sane-backends (Ubuntu Disco) "genesys_gl847 scanners produce a black band in scanned images on Ubuntu 17.10+, 18.04 LTS and 18.10 Cosmic cuttlefish" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731459
<Locutusofborg> GunnarHj, ack
<GunnarHj> Locutusofborg: Thanks a lot!
<blackboxsw> vorlon: thanks for the suggestion on cloud-init use of debconfig-loadtemplate for ubuntu-drivers work. The only wrinkle here is that cloud-init doesn't currently have a dependency on debconf-utils package.  I'd like to avoid adding that new strict package dependency if we can to avoid bloat (57K) on most cloud-init deployments which don't try to configure ubuntu-drivers.     one option is for cloud-init to
<blackboxsw> install debconf-utils if we are already processing ubuntu-drivers in cloud-config.       Are there any other alternatives you would suggest?
<vorlon> blackboxsw: oh, sorry, I overlooked that the command was in the non-default debconf-utils.  You can also use the X_LOADTEMPLATE debconf protocol extension to load it without having to install other packages
<blackboxsw> ahh /me rtfms now thanks
<vorlon> so then you just have to talk the debconf protocol, no big deal :P
<blackboxsw> SMOP :)
<blackboxsw> vorlon: looks like we'll have db_x_loadtemplatefile in /usr/share/debconf/confmodule so that should be a big help as it's delivered by debconf proper
<blackboxsw> ok we can work with this
<blackboxsw> thanks again
<vorlon> blackboxsw: yeah, you're just then subjected to implementing in shell in order to use /usr/share/debconf/confmodule but otherwise ok :)
<blackboxsw> vorlon: or maybe I could push a patch back to python3-debconf to support x_loadtemplatefile as it seems like that would be a trivial upstream commit as it seems the only command not supported by the python library
<blackboxsw> maybe I'll try both routes, and cloud-init can adopt the python3-debconf library in the future
<vorlon> ah, given that python3-debconf is already in the server task (which I hadn't realized), that seems like the better approach IMHO
<vorlon> though we'd then have to SRU it back
<blackboxsw> yeah and we'd need to MIR in xenial : /
<blackboxsw> as it looks like it's only back to bionic
 * blackboxsw checks state of /usr/share/debconf/confmodule in xenial too
<blackboxsw> db_x_loadtemplatefile exists in xenial  /usr/share/debconf/confmodule
<blackboxsw> hrm, ok so need to weigh using subp shell to source db_x_loadtemplatefile /usr/share/debconf/confmodule  vesus just installing debconf-utils if ubuntu-drivers cloud-config is specified
<blackboxsw> vs. rolling our own simple wire write of debconf cmds for X_LOADTEMPLATEFILE support
<vorlon> blackboxsw: there's no expectation that we'll have these drivers on xenial fwiw
<Odd_Bloke> Is there any way to change the make target that dh_auto_test will run, or should I just override it and run `make not_quite_test_but_so_close` myself?
<Odd_Bloke> (`make test` runs both Py2 and Py3 tests, I'm looking at dropping the python2 binary packages produced, so don't want to install the Python 2 build deps to make the tests run.)
<rbasak> https://sources.debian.org/src/debhelper/12.5.3/lib/Debian/Debhelper/Buildsystem/makefile.pm/#L167
<rbasak> Doesn't look like it - not for the "make" buildsystem implementation
<rbasak> Assuming you're using the make buildsystem and not one of the Python ones
<rbasak> So overriding it seems like the appropriate mechanism to use
<mwhudson> Locutusofborg: um how many rebuilds is this golang-google stuff going to take? :)
<mwhudson> Locutusofborg: fwiw it seems the grpc failure is real
#ubuntu-devel 2019-08-21
<lucas_ai> I'm trying to read an H264 video stream in python but it seems there are NO libraries for this... wtf? - how am I supposed to decode H264 frames?
<mwhudson> # go4.org/reflectutil.test
<mwhudson> go4.org/reflectutil.typedmemmove: relocation target runtime.typedmemmove not defined for ABI0 (but is defined for ABIInternal)
<mwhudson> yikes
<mwhudson> lucas_ai: this channel is for the development of ubuntu, not using ubuntu for development (if that makes sense)
<mwhudson> https://github.com/go4org/go4/issues/43
<lucas_ai> it seems ffmpeg cannot decode h264... only mp4
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, did you get any success with ffmpeg?
<lennyb> rbasak. Thanks.  Do you know how packages go to this repo http://mirror.iad.rax.openstack.org/ubuntu-cloud-archive/pool/main/n/networking-mlnx/   ?  As I see this mirror should have all version of the package
<Locutusofborg> mwhudson, I think its over for now :D
<Locutusofborg> rebuilding once bileto lands is something better to do, even if not required
<Locutusofborg> and bootstrapping was really painful, the dependency chain was looooooooong
<alkisg> cyphermox: hi, in 19.04, netplan generates this line in /etc/net-enp0s3.conf:
<alkisg> IPV4DNS0=1.2.3.4 1.2.3.5 1.2.3.6
<alkisg> I.e. unquoted, so the file is not longer a valid/sourceable shell script.
<alkisg> In addition, I think it should be writing a single value to IPV4DNS0 and another one in IPV4DNS1, and omit the third one, as script may not be able to cope with multiple values in IPV4DNS0.
<alkisg> My question is... where do I file issues that come from the netplan changes in the initramfs code? In initramfs-tools, or in netplan, or both?
<alkisg> *sorry, I meant in /run/net-enp0s3.conf
<alkisg> In Ubuntu 18.04 it didn't have this issue
<doko> sforshee, apw: could you start using python3 for your kernel builds?
<apw> doko, very likely ...
<doko> ta
<apw> doko, indeed our explicit dep is python3, so odd that we are using 2
<apw> sforshee, lets put some actions somewhere to get that investigated
<doko> apw: B-D: python-dev, python-sphinx <!stage1>, python-sphinx-rtd-theme
<apw> doko, yeah, we'll find it and see if we can squash it
<rbasak> lennyb: I think that's probably https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OpenStack/CloudArchive. THe OpenStack team manage it and I'm not aware of their policies and procedures, sorry.
<rbasak> openssl/libssl1.1 1.1.1-1ubuntu2.1~18.04.4 hit the security pocket last night, and that regressed ejabberd
<rbasak> 2019-08-21 06:52:28.402 [warning] <0.539.0>@ejabberd_c2s:process_terminated:290 (tls|<0.539.0>) Failed to secure c2s connection: TLS failed: client renegotiations forbidden
<rbasak> bionic-security that is
<rbasak> Downgrading to 1.1.0g-2ubuntu4.3 (the previous package I had installed which I assume is what was in bionic-security previously) fixes it.
<rbasak> Should I file this against openssl or ejabberd?
<rbasak> mdeslaur: ^
 * rbasak has filed bug 1840902
<ubottu> bug 1840902 in openssl (Ubuntu Bionic) "ejabberd fails incoming connections with "Failed to secure c2s connection: TLS failed: client renegotiations forbidden"" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840902
<lennyb> rbasak:thanks a lot.
<mdeslaur> rbasak, xnox: I gather I should rebuild erlang-p1-tls in -security?
<xnox> mdeslaur:  as requested in an email to you.... rbasak's bug marked as duplicate.
<xnox> rbasak:  promoting demoting openssl is not nice =)
<xnox> rbasak:  also, do you trust SRU process so much that you use -security only =) ?! I find that peculiar =) unless i'ts not your system, but someone elses =)
<mdeslaur> xnox: sorry, let me catch up on my email
<xnox> mdeslaur:  well it's only been minutes ago =) but i think we are all on the same page =)
<mdeslaur> ok, cool, I'll rebuild and release today
<Locutusofborg> rafaeldtinoco, hello, thanks for LP: #1840511
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1840511 in gcc-9 (Ubuntu Eoan) "Eoan FTBFS with gcc-9 and MySQL 8" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840511
<Locutusofborg> next time please ping me directly on irc!
<Locutusofborg> I lost the emails into the spam folder
<Locutusofborg> looks like we did double work, I'm reading the bug right now
<Locutusofborg> btw there is no hurry wrt feature freeze
<Locutusofborg> packages in proposed are allowed to migrate
<rbasak> xnox: well, it is the default. It's important to test the default ;)
<xnox> rbasak:  har har sure. Also what do you use ejaberd for? actual jabber/xmpp or for voip?
<rbasak> Actual XMPP
<xnox> nice
<xnox> so retro =)
<xnox> jelmer:  feature freeze is tomorrow =/ so i guess we didn't get in bzr -> breezy transition
<Locutusofborg> rafaeldtinoco, thanks for the big valuable patches, I think you should be a MOTU :D
<rbasak> Locutusofborg: my team is handling the MySQL transition. If you're working on that without contacting us, you're doing the double work :-/
<seb128> MIR team, do you know what's the status of bug #1811824? webkit2gtk needs it now, unsure why it has not been picked since june after security team reviewed it?
<ubottu> bug 1811824 in xdg-dbus-proxy (Ubuntu) "[MIR] xdg-dbus-proxy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1811824
<seb128> doko, cyphermox, cpaelzer, ^
<cpaelzer> seb128: as I read it didrocks wanted to have it set back to new to re-review (which you did in may)
<seb128> unsure why Ken assigned to himself, maybe that confused things?
<cpaelzer> not sure what Ken wanted by assigning it to himself, but maybe that made it be lost in the overviews that we check every now and then
<seb128> yeah, I guess so
<seb128> well now webkit has been updated
<seb128> so that problem shows on proposed migrations reports
<cpaelzer> since we also have already a security review that should go fast
<seb128> what's the process to flag that to the MIR team?
<cpaelzer> I think you did
<cpaelzer> we check the links that you find at http://people.ubuntu.com/~cyphermox/meetings/ubuntu-mir.html weekly
<cpaelzer> now that Ken is unassigned it is visible there again
<cpaelzer> due to that it was hidden to be open
<cpaelzer> and I guess didrocks forgot about it as well
<cpaelzer> I'm waiting for a build anyway, let me help you by starting the review
<cpaelzer> if it looks smooth you'd be ready to go afterwards since security acked it already
<seb128> cpaelzer, ok, thanks for the reply and poking at it!
<seb128> cpaelzer, it's a bit confusing sometime that bugs need to be in a particular state to be considered and nothing is indicating they are not (like having an assignee in this case), but good to know about that report so I can check to make sure it's on there next time
<seb128> cpaelzer, also I own you a reply for the zsys one, week is a bit busy with ff (and Didier is off and knows better about the go/vendor copies thing)
<cpaelzer> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MIRTeam#Process_states
<cpaelzer> essnetially this assign prevented it to be visible in #1 and thereby never moved to #2
<cpaelzer> this is my mental helper for the admittedly complex states of the MIR process
<seb128> useful summary
<cpaelzer> I wrote and extended it everytime I wondered about it
<cpaelzer> and at some point it was ready to be up in the wiki :-)
<seb128> :)
<seb128> juliank, do you think you could merge wpa 2.9 from Debian? could be good to get in E
<cpaelzer> seb128: you are a member of https://launchpad.net/~desktop-packages could you double check for me if this is already subscribed to xdg-dbus-proxy?
<seb128> cpaelzer, 'âDesktop Packagesâ team subscription: (unnamed)'
<seb128> cpaelzer, yes, it is
<cpaelzer> seb128: this was probably the most straight forward review that I had
<cpaelzer> LGTM and +1
<cpaelzer> now get an AA to do your promotion to main
<seb128> cpaelzer, wooot, thx!
<seb128> cpaelzer, I'm an AA so I can do it :)
<cpaelzer> yay
<juliank> seb128: ack
<seb128> juliank, thx!
<jelmer> xnox: I've got the changes committed, just not uploaded yet :/
<seb128> juliank, thx :)
<Odd_Bloke> rbasak: re: dh_auto_test stuff from yesterday, thanks!
<rbasak> Odd_Bloke: you're welcome. Another thought just occurred to me: you could also patch out what the Makefile does.
<rbasak> I don't know which is better.
<rbasak> An override in debian/rules is perhaps more obvious.
<teward> ddstreet: wolsen: slashd: any of you three online?
<slashd> o/ teward
<teward> slashd: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/net-snmp/+bug/1835818 showed up on the radar for me because -sponsors was autosubbed.  Noticed STS Sponsors is on there, and it was filed by someone on the Canonical Support team.  My concern: "Regression Potential: TBD" makes it 'unsatisfiable' for sponsoring under the standard criterion, but STS Sponsors seems to be you paid canonical people for this, so I wanted to check with you guys
<teward> first
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1835818 in net-snmp (Ubuntu Eoan) "snmpd causes autofs mount points to be mounted on service start/restart" [Medium,In progress]
<teward> before I make any response
<teward> it's listed for SRU it seems too
 * slashd looking
<teward> and I can just hear vorlon and others screaming "NEEDS A REGRESSION POTENTIAL" from fifty lightyears away
<slashd> teward, joalif is in my team, I think the SRU tmpl as it is right now, is still a draft. dddstreet and I are part of STS Sponsor and we sponsor most patch inside our team, and we won't sponsor things without a good details potential regression if it recomfort you (as we always do)
<teward> yep.  i'm more annoyed that the bot autosubbed it :P
<teward> last time I saw a "Regression Potential TBD" it sent me down the rabbit hole :P
<teward> slashd: just wanted to check with you guys since I know you guys sponsor internal on the team, the chrichton bot from bdmurray just subbed sponsors is all.  I'll take -sponsors off since you guys handle internal.
<teward> if you have no objections :)
<slashd> teward, yep because it has detected a debdiff attachement. yeah no worry. We won't upload anything before the template is completed and detailled.
<teward> ð
<slashd> teward, sound good in this case sts-sponsor is the only needed.
<teward> yep.  that bot is slightly annoying ;)
<teward> but i always read through the stuff that lands on my email from the -sponsors list :)
<teward> thanks
<slashd> teward, sure anytime
<teward> *drifts back into the shadows*
<dwmw2_gone> Is there an easy way to autobuild a .deb package for each commit in a gitlab repo? I have a Fedora COPR set up with a trigger from gitlab; would quite like to do the same for Ubuntu.
<slashd> teward: joalif is updating the potential regression as we speak fyi.
<teward> ah, nice.  well it's off my radar since standard ubuntu-sponsors is off it, thank you though :)
<slashd> teward, yeah was simply an fyi ;)
<ddstreet> rbalint xnox what's the plan for systemd in eoan?  is it staying at 240?  i have a couple bugs already sru'ed that i need to add to eoan, if so
<xnox> ddstreet:  plan is to upgrade to at least v241. And yes, it does mean we need to do a lot of cherrypicking of bugfixes and features we like/need/known-to-work-correctly
<Locutusofborg> rbasak, thanks! and sorry for stealing your poco merge, I had to rebuild it, and then I have to rebuild ros-class-loader with new poco multiarch location (sigh!), to hopefully fix ros-rviz build (tested locally, it works), because the fix in ros-python-qt-binding was not enough (fixed one qt issue, but another one appeared)
<rbasak> vorlon, rafaeldtinoco, Locutusofborg, cpaelzer: I just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clickhouse/+bug/1840938.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1840938 in clickhouse (Ubuntu) "Please remove clickhouse from the release pocket" [Undecided,New]
<rbasak> Locutusofborg: I appreciate your work
<Locutusofborg> but its fixed now :)
<rbasak> Oh, you retried amd64?
<rbasak> I was responding to its failure
<rbasak> If it succeeds this time then sure.
<Locutusofborg> https://launchpad.net/~costamagnagianfranco/+archive/ubuntu/locutusofborg-ppa/+build/17449022
<Locutusofborg> it worked on my ppa
<Locutusofborg> my guess is flaky test
<Locutusofborg> but I won't oppose to "removing it from eoan" :D
<rbasak> Another one to add to the skip list? Looks like Rafael already added a bunch.
<Locutusofborg> such issues will be handled by Debian maintainer... I already committed changes there
<Locutusofborg> and tagged him
<rbasak> Nice. Thanks!
<Locutusofborg> so I'll make it build on amd64 and then hope to forget it
<Locutusofborg> (this is why I like your bug about removing it :D)
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: just replied, that build missed the gcc9 workaround
<rafaeldtinoco> sorry, just woke up from last night adventures on unblocking stuff #)
<Locutusofborg> rafaeldtinoco, why do you say that?
<Locutusofborg> why did it work on my ppa?
<Locutusofborg> same build?
<rafaeldtinoco> https://tests.reproducible-builds.org/debian/rb-pkg/unstable/amd64/clickhouse.html
<rafaeldtinoco> check the G++ dumpo
<Locutusofborg> oh you mean Debian :D
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<Locutusofborg> I uploaded your package in Ubuntu
<rafaeldtinoco> ahh great!
<Locutusofborg> it failed on builders/amd64 and the very same identical build didn't fail in my ppa/amd64
<Locutusofborg> so we suspect some flaky test
<rafaeldtinoco> ...
<Locutusofborg> I retried it https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clickhouse/18.16.1+ds-4ubuntu2
<rbasak> Removing packages from eoan:...1 package successfully removed.
<Locutusofborg> lovely thanks!
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: nice
<rafaeldtinoco> Locutusofborg: sorry =) I tried =)
<rafaeldtinoco> lol
<rafaeldtinoco> the huge amount of tests (flaky) arent too good
<rafaeldtinoco> i would do the opposite and enable only the important ones
<rafaeldtinoco> and maybe convert them to autopkgtests
<rafaeldtinoco> (to run the ctest after the build time)
<rafaeldtinoco> or something like it
<rbasak> I'll do the no-change rebuilds for dependency level 3 now, shall I?
<rbasak> Excluding bareos, since we know that one will FTBFS without a patch.
<Locutusofborg> in any case rafaeldtinoco please forward patches to Debian...
<rafaeldtinoco> Locutusofborg: definitely!
<Locutusofborg> thanks!
<rbasak> We're tracking all the patches that need upstreaming. There are rather a lot.
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: alright
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: should I do the -glusterfs lib patch to bareos ?
<rbasak> Oh, hold on.
<rbasak> bareos isn't in the release pocket.
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: so not needed for the transition. Sorry I didn't notice that before.
<rbasak> This case is a missing feature in the transition tracker I guess.
<rafaeldtinoco> np at all
<rbasak> You can still fix it though if you have the fix ready already - or just send to Debian for them to incorporate eventually.
<rbasak> The work you did is useful.
<rafaeldtinoco> sure!
<rafaeldtinoco> maintainers will have to fix it for libglusterfs
<rafaeldtinoco> i was basically removing the feature
<rbasak> No change rebuilds uploaded.
<rbasak> xnox: "Please create ubuntu-hints project" -> could the existing Ubuntu project be used instead? Eg. we already have package removal process bugs for ~ubuntu-archive.
<rbasak> And you get your series tasks
<rbasak> And can associate the existing relevant packages if you wish.
<xnox> rbasak:  .... and per-series bzr branches? lp:ubuntu-hints/bionic ?
<xnox> rbasak:  somehow ubuntu-hints feels arthogonal to me.... cause it's usually a combination of packages X blocks Y, which can be solved in X or Y or hinted over or Z fixed/hinted or package removed.
<xnox> rbasak:  or do you mean like Ubuntu project without any source package?
<xnox> rbasak:  also separate project helps with filtering.
<xnox> rbasak:  cause currently hints are in the britney project
<xnox> or rather our fork of it.
<rbasak> My first thought was to do it without any source package.
<rbasak> For filtering, use tags!
<xnox> rbasak:  and keep the branches in the britney project?
<rbasak> That's what I thought, yes. Unless that won't work?
 * xnox is unsure if it's better to "git clone lp:ubuntu-hints" or like "brz branch lp:ubuntu-hints/bionic"
<xnox> rbasak:  well ACLs issues / branches are only manageble by release (for devel) and sru (for stable) teams, and not by all of bugmasters.....
<xnox> i should be able to make NEW issue, but not close it...... then again we seem to manage that fine with SRUs.
<rbasak> I don't see that as a problem. Operating on trust mostly works fine.
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: catching up
<rafaeldtinoco> something needed for bareos or clickhouse on my side ?
<rafaeldtinoco> (bareos = open a debian bug and share discoveries)
<rafaeldtinoco> about dbconfig-mysql dependency needs and gluster new api
<rbasak> Nothing needed for those packages for the transition now.
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<rbasak> For general cleanup we need to upstream everything, eventually bring the packages back into sync, etc.
<rbasak> If that applies to those packages
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rbasak> clickhouse is quite deltified now I think?
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: i saw Locutusofborg did the patches in debian
<rbasak> Great!
<rafaeldtinoco> ill check with him
<xnox> rbasak:  so here is an example then https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-oem-osp1/+bug/1840943
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1840943 in zlib (Ubuntu Eoan) "[hint] zlib through due to osp1 regression" [Undecided,New]
<xnox> ubuntu-hints tag, [hint] title, affected packages / series, ~ubuntu-release subscribed
<Laney> what problem are you two solving?
<xnox> Laney:  that, yet again, "submit hint merge proposal" ended up questioning the life universe and everything, instead of resolving proposed migration issue between two packages.
<xnox> Laney:  since proposing solution, is not an effective way of stating a proposed migration problem and requesting release team to decide on how to resolve it https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/britney/oem-osp1/+merge/371570
 * xnox doesn't like proposing solutions, when it's not up to me how something should be resolved
<xnox> and most proposed-migration false regressions have many ways of being fixed.
<Laney> OK, probably a mail to ubuntu-release setting out the problem that you see and how you think it could be fixed/improved would be best then.
<Laney> (the general problem)
<rbasak> xnox: I like what you did with that bug, and I prefer it over a new ubuntu-hints project
<xnox> Laney:  ack. Plus it's like relese&sru team intersection... cause different teams do hinting for devel & stable series.
<vorlon> xnox: I think it's appropriate to propose a specific solution, but always with complete rationale
<Locutusofborg> rbasak, rafaeldtinoco yes, for the two packages I did yes
<xnox> vorlon:  in debian, release hints are proposed as bug reports no? i.e. file a case in BTS with suggested hint / transition-tracker?
<Locutusofborg> clickhouse and cpuinfo or whatever is called are upstreamed
<rafaeldtinoco> Locutusofborg: nice! thx!
<Locutusofborg> mitya57, hello, just FYI I'm uploading a python-pyqtgraph with python2 still, and then I'll remove python2 package once it migrates
<Locutusofborg> ^^ it is already in deferred/5, so please don't reopen the bug :D
<vorlon> xnox: I don't think there's anything about bug reports that makes them fundamentally better suited to presenting the rationale to the release team vs MPs
<vorlon> and in Debian, you don't get MPs as a toplevel feature of random projects
<xnox> vorlon:  is it only me who trips up non-trivial hints that seem to always require further actions and discussion, and are never merged as is?
<xnox> or do i need to explain things from like a different point of view / trail of proof?
<xnox> i can see that i might be looking at everything backwards.
<vorlon> xnox: I think you tend to bring the more interesting cases. :P  broadly speaking, my experience with other MPs is that they wind up being straight rejects or accepts or merges with modifications and an explanation to the submitter after the fact why I changed it
<vorlon> whereas you bring me the hints that don't make sense to me as-is but I assume you have a reason so I want to ask questions to understand that reason
<xnox> ahhahahhaha
 * xnox is a problem child
<powersj> rbasak, looks like your uploads fixed the rest for mysql8?
<rbasak> powersj: yes. Waiting for autopkgtests now.
<alkisg> cyphermox: I ended up filing it against both packages, hope this is ok; LP bug #1840965
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1840965 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "netplan initramfs code writes invalid net-eth0.conf" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840965
<cyphermox> yup
<alkisg> ty
<alkisg> ...where can I download xubuntu 18.10 from, to see if the problem started in 19.04 or in 18.10? I don't see it in cdimage, nor in old-releases...
<alkisg> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/xubuntu/releases/ and http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/xubuntu/releases/
<alkisg> Some releases missing from either those directories...
<alkisg> Seems like old flavor releases are being lost from the mirrors and archives; I had to download it from some indonesian forgotten mirror...
<mitya57> Locutusofborg: thanks. Nothing urgent as removing Qt 4 will be a long process :)
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, did you get any success with ffmpeg/armhf?
<cyphermox> seb128: not yet
<seb128> cyphermox, vorlon, can't we just ignore the ffmpeg/armhf issue for the migration and unblock things? ff is tomorrow and we have a full GNOME stack blocked on that to land as well as other transitions then
<cyphermox> sure, I think this single failure with a less-important codec is ignorable
<cyphermox> (well, still needs to be fixed, but maybe not a blocker)
<cyphermox> I don't know if there'll be more issues though to complete the transition
<vorlon> seb128, cyphermox: I agree that it's better to ignore the regression than to let things logjam, but ignoring confirmed regressions is my least favorite solution.  Did anyone who was looking into this consider asking for ffmpeg 4.1.4 to be dropped from -proposed, so we could get a reubild of 4.1.3 instead?
<vorlon> is it too late to do that now?
<vorlon> and, how much time was put into reproducing/fixing the actual armhf issue?  a sigsegv shouldn't be hard to reproduce
<vorlon> seb128, cyphermox: the autopkgtests for ffmpeg are not steep. We could proably have an ffmpeg 4.1.3 rebuild built and tested in 3 hours.  I'd rather do that now than ignore the brokenness of ffmpeg 4.1.4 on armhf
<seb128> vorlon, I didn't spent time on it since cyphermox is saying daily that he's looking at it for a week and I don't want to dup work
<cyphermox> certainly not for a week.
<seb128> cyphermox, you said on thursday at the foundation team meeting you would look at it, so ok 6 days :)
<seb128> anway, I'm travelling tomorrow and at a conf until tuesday then
<cyphermox> I said I'd help you out looking at the libvpx transition on Thursday, I only got to the point that it was ffmpeg on Monday, when I couldn't debug it
<seb128> I can try to poke at it if I get some connectivity tomorrow while travelling though
<cyphermox> I'm waiting for dd to finish copying an eoan image to an sd card right now
<seb128> k
<seb128> well no-one at blame, that's just not moving and meanwhile stack of other changes are pilling up
<seb128> which is unfortunate :/
<seb128> also holidays and ff rush also doesn't help to find free slots to poke at that I guess
<cyphermox> that's why I thought sbc was a bug that shouldn't block 4.1.4, provided nothing else is an issue.
<cyphermox> or going back to 4.1.3, doesn't really matter which way
<cyphermox> fwiw, I am unable to reproduce the ffmpeg segfault here
<vorlon> cyphermox: I'm able to reproduce it, but when I run it under gdb the program crashes under ld-linux instead of where it's supposed to :P
<vorlon> reproducible in canonistack: ffmpeg -f lavfi -i sine=d=0.1 -strict -2 -c:a sbc -f sbc /tmp/sbc.sbc -y -hide_banner -nostdin
<vorlon> I can give you ssh on my instance if you like
<vorlon> cyphermox: ubuntu@10.48.131.150 if you want it
<mwhudson> we all know what failing on a buildd but working on real hw means, right?
<vorlon> that the universe is a simulation and we've found a bug?
<mwhudson> vorlon: i wasn't aware the universe had rules about pointer alighnment, but sure, let's go with that
<vorlon> heh
<vorlon> mwhudson: it's segfault though, not sigbus
<mwhudson> ah
<mwhudson> vorlon: add my key to that instance too?
<vorlon> mwhudson: done
<vorlon> it's probably easy once we can get gdb to give an answer :P
<vorlon> but gdb /bin/bash gives the same result, a crash in ld-linux
<vorlon> who broke gdb on armhf
<mwhudson> vorlon: where is ffmpeg hiding?
<vorlon> mwhudson: in the armhf container
<mwhudson> oh right, that was a silly question
<vorlon> which is the one named, uh, 'helped-oyster'
<mwhudson> heh yes that's not very helpful gdb
<mwhudson> libc6-dbg is already the newest version (2.29-0ubuntu3).
<mwhudson> does that not include symbols for ld-linux.2 ?
<mwhudson> or well /lib/ld-linux-armhf.so.3 or whatever
<vorlon> it includes the debug copy of ld-linux, at /usr/lib/debug/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/ld-2.29.so
<vorlon> which gives different, but not better, results from gdb
<vorlon> (perhaps the fact that the names of the files under debug don't match the sonames is an issue?)
<mwhudson> errr
<mwhudson> what is cmnvc
<vorlon> or perhaps they're simply detached debug symbols and file is lying to me
<vorlon> /usr/lib/debug/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libc-2.29.so certainly has no soname
<vorlon> infinity: ^^ do you know if the current libc6-dbg is usable on armhf for debugging?
<mwhudson> it has a .text section
<mwhudson> oh but so do the other detached symbol files?
<mwhudson> i don't know how this works i guess
<vorlon> yeah perhaps this all relies on the build-id magic
<mwhudson> vorlon: have you tried analyzing a core dump?
<vorlon> no
<mwhudson> root@helped-oyster:~/ffmpeg-4.1.4# file core
<mwhudson> core: empty
<mwhudson> how does this work again? :)
<vorlon> ulimits?
<vorlon> oh also apport and containers and dry heaves
<mwhudson> i removed apport
<vorlon> ok
<mwhudson> vorlon: er is there an unstripped ffmpeg around in this container somewhere
<mwhudson> it's faulting on => 0x00aecb38:	ldr.w	r0, [r1], #44
<mwhudson> where $r1is 0xff6a
<vorlon> mwhudson: just downloaded you the ddeb
<mwhudson> so it looks like aligment fun but without symbols it's a bit hard to find the source :)
<mwhudson> #0  0x00aecb38 in output_packet (of=0xff6a, pkt=0xff9d1628, ost=0x1a98b10, eof=0) at src/fftools/ffmpeg.c:886
<vorlon> so how did you manage to get a working gdb?
<vorlon> by running against the core file?
<mwhudson> yeah
<mwhudson> gdb being this broken on armhf does seem kinda bad :(
<cyphermox> this isn't going to help though, this is only failing for a single codec, you'd need to have a trace elsewhere that points to something in avcodec/sbc*
<mwhudson> uh the line being pointed to is still not very helpful, i think there is inlining going on
<vorlon> yeah
<cyphermox> :/
<cyphermox> I already inspected the code enough to figure out there weren't obvious changes between versions, except for some things in dB calculations which didn't look that crazy either
<mwhudson> need a debug build i guess
<cyphermox> vorlon: mwhudson: you're looking at ffmpeg 4.1.4, right? not the rebuilt 4.1.3?
<vorlon> yes
<cyphermox> ...
<cyphermox> because ffmpeg 4.1.3-1build1 also segfaults
<vorlon> ah, does it?
<vorlon> that's rather rude of it
 * mwhudson has gotten disctracted trying to debug gdb
<mwhudson> same thing happens in a disco container
<mwhudson> not bionic though
<mwhudson> although it does say this
<mwhudson> Cannot parse expression `.L1207 4@r4'.
<mwhudson> warning: Probes-based dynamic linker interface failed.
<mwhudson> Reverting to original interface.
<cyphermox> I got as far as you did with the output_packet() trace, but no farther
<mwhudson> apparently gdb does something with systemtap
#ubuntu-devel 2019-08-22
<mwhudson> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa if i use objcopy to make a copy of ld-linux-armhf.so.3 with no .note.stapsdt section it works
<cyphermox> fun
<mwhudson> trying to build -O0 ffmpeg now
<mwhudson> ok so this build now execution gcc commands with -O2 -O0 and -O3 in that order
<RAOF> xnox: Are you around to bounce a systemd SRU off?
<doko> ricotz: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<ricotz> doko, isn't marcustomlinson on it?
<ricotz> doko, https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?h=ubuntu-eoan-6.3&id=83f37add9deb614f5fa4f79faeb5d8f575effbe2
<doko> ricotz: I don't know, just saw it
<ricotz> marcustomlinson, this is what happens when scrapping old changes which are actually needed ;)
<marcustomlinson> ricotz: no pain no gain huh :)
<doko> cpaelzer, coreycb: can postgresql-11 be built with llvm-9 (or -8) instead of 7?
<rbasak> cpaelzer: o/
<rbasak> cpaelzer: bareos turns out not to be in the Eoan release pocket, so it doesn't matter for the transition
<cpaelzer> doko: I haven't looked at newer llvm for postgresql at all so far
<cpaelzer> is that a "needs to be solved today for FF" question?
<cpaelzer> or does that have some time?
<cpaelzer> doko: the discussion around when https://git.postgresql.org/gitweb/?p=users%2Fandresfreund%2Fpostgres.git&a=shortlog&h=refs%2Fheads%2Fjit landed was about v9.0 and v9.1 https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/20180124072038.jviav7h3fgkv7hto%40alap3.anarazel.de
<cpaelzer> but I found no clear statement or working reference using anything newer to give you a definitive answer
<cpaelzer> doko: it is not past sayin >=6 in any other build I checked. I have asked Myon in case he knows
<cpaelzer> doko: per Myon 9 should work but he wanted to wait until 9 is in unstable to make one swicth (7->9) leaving out the work to go to 8
<doko> cpaelzer: could you track that for eoan?
<doko> llvm-9 is now the default
<cpaelzer> it won't be in eoan
<cpaelzer> FF is today, Debian hasn't even moved
<cpaelzer> llvm-7-dev is still there and we will pick it up together with Debian toward 20.04
<cpaelzer> then on v9 most likely
<cpaelzer> is there a hard stop to llvm-7 in Eoan - like dropping it - on the way?
<ricotz> is the iso image builder for bionic on halt? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/bionic/
<cjwatson> Yes, all those cron jobs are commented out at the moment.  (While I can see it, I no longer operate it, so I can't tell you why)
<ricotz> I see, not having an updated one seems unfortunate
<doko> cpaelzer: no, but I would like to avoid three llvm versions in main ...
<tinoco> good morning o/
<slashd> is there any known problem with the autopkgtest testing under armhf architecture in eoan ? It seems to take quite some time, and things seems starting to pile up : http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running#queue-ubuntu-eoan-armhf
<tinoco> rbasak: sorry, just to confirm, are you waiting on me to remove libglusterfs support from bareos and change dbconfig-common dependencies/etc today ? (just confirming to prioritize it)
<tinoco> cpaelzer: ^
<tinoco> slashd: yep.. not the first time this happens :(
<slashd> tinoco, ok tks
<cpaelzer> slashd: it is just slow
<cpaelzer> slashd: look here http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running
<cpaelzer> it's 11 pages tests for armhf
<cpaelzer> waiting in the queue
<cpaelzer> but the numbers are low 136+162+138
<cpaelzer> we have seen numbers with high 4 digits at times
<cpaelzer> I wonder if the queue is high becuase only a few nodes are up testing
<cjwatson> FYI, eoan builds are now using new chroots.  I know of breakage in eoan-based recipes and am working on it; AFAIK everything else is OK, so let me know if you see oddities that look like chroot problems
<rbasak> tinoco: no I'm not blocked on you currently thanks
<tinoco> rbasak: tks
<vorlon> cjwatson: thanks!
<ahasenack> is the excuses page stuck? Last update was ~55min ago
<ahasenack> ok, it just updated
<vorlon> ahasenack: not stuck, just busy :)
<ahasenack> I saw, the timestamp is :45, and it was live 15min later
<rbasak> vorlon: I see you uploaded a rebuild of ffmpeg. update_output.txt doesn't seem to be trying it though. Does that need hinting, or am I missing something?
<rbasak> Or is it not trying because of something else that I need to figure out?
<vorlon> rbasak: update_excuses shows there was a failing vlc/armhf test which I have now hinted past, so on the next refresh it should be included in update_output
<vorlon> rbasak: in fact the page regenerated 14m ago and I see ffmpeg included
<rbasak> Ah
 * rbasak catches up
<rbasak> OK so next clamfs needs a no change rebuild for libpocofoundation62
<rbasak> vorlon: ^ shall I start uploading the necessary rebuilds or are you actively doing it?
<vorlon> rbasak: I can batch upload them here in a minute
<vorlon> rbasak: k, clamfs ftbfs if you want to look into that
<rbasak> ack
<vorlon> rbasak: and this build failure is https://bugs.debian.org/925653
<ubottu> Debian bug 925653 in src:clamfs "clamfs: ftbfs with GCC-9" [Serious,Open]
<vorlon> so I'm fine just removing the package now
<rbasak> Oh, OK. Sure! Thanks.
<tinoco> rbasak, cpaelzer: bareos tests are broken for debian as well, but service (mysql backend) does work and I could make all packages without glusterfs, can I upload it and solve the autopkgtest as a SRU after freeze ? (disabling the broken tests) ?
<ahasenack> fixes can still be uploaded after freeze, if that's what you mean
<ahasenack> to eoan
<tinoco> ahasenack: my question was about disabling the test
<tinoco> so migration passes
<tinoco> and I can fix it as SRU
<ahasenack> what do you mean sru
<tinoco> like if it was sru =o)
<ahasenack> it would be an sru only after eoan is released
<tinoco> err, fix after freeze, but for test
<tinoco> forget the word i used =)
<ahasenack> ok :)
 * ahasenack goes back into his tent :)
<tinoco> #)
<rbasak> There are some lingering rdepends on libdouble-conversion1 that I think we need to clear
<rbasak> From sources github-backup, haskell-bytestring-conversion, haskell-github, haskell-http-link-header, haskell-text-format
<rbasak> I'm not sure why haskell-bytestring-conversion hasn't been upload
<rbasak> ed
<rbasak> But some of the others have been and have build dependency issues it seems
<tinoco> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bareos/+bug/1840485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1840485 in bareos (Ubuntu) "Eoan autopkgtest regressions - Migration Excuses" [Medium,In progress]
<tinoco> if someone can review/dput my pkg/debdiff I would appreciate
<tinoco> DEP8 test (pgsql only) PASSES and changes are no-brainers
<tinoco> rbasak and or andrewsh[m] if you have sometime
<tinoco> in this busy day for you
<vorlon> rbasak: yes the ghc transition is not in particularly good shape currently.  I'm removing most of these packages now
<vorlon> rbasak: what's the story on default-libmysqld-dev?
<Skuggen> libmysqld is gone from 8.0
<rbasak> I had just found that haskell-text-format in sid requires (effectively) ghc < 4.12
<rbasak> Uh
<rbasak> Let me try that again
<rbasak> haskell-text-format in sid requires "base" < 4.12
<rbasak> That's provided by libghc-base-dev-<something>
<rbasak> That's a virtual package provided by ghc
<rbasak> We have 4.11 of that virtual package in the release pocket, and 4.12 in proposed
<rbasak> Hence it fails to build in proposed
<rbasak> sid's ghc provides 4.11 of that virtual package
<rbasak> at version 8.6.5+dfsg1-3 of ghc
<rbasak> eoan's ghc is also 8.6.5+dfsg1-3
<rbasak> So it must be something determined at build time :-/
<rbasak> vorlon: ah. I should probably have removed default-libmysqld-dev from src:mysql-defaults.
<vorlon> looks like it
<vorlon> rbasak: can you upload that now? I think that's the last missing piece
<rbasak> Yes.
<vorlon> ta
<vorlon> well there's also libreoffice-style-hicontrast, not sure yet what's up with that
<Skuggen> rbasak: I uploaded an updated mysql-defaults to the ppa
<vorlon> hmm libreoffice-style-hicontrast is built from libreoffice source and is uninstallable
<rbasak> Skuggen: sorry I had missed that from the PPA and constructed it myself.
<rbasak> Skuggen: my first is a little different though
<Skuggen> Yeah, it's not a complicated change, anyway, so no need to use the one from the ppa :)
<rbasak> There are a couple of extra bits needed than from the PPA
<rbasak> Drop of default-libmysqld-dev from debian/control
<rbasak> And from the actual dh_gencontrol line
<Skuggen> Yeah, it still builds it I see
<rbasak> And I've also stopped generating it for MariaDB, since it makes no sense there either.
<vorlon> so I think I'm going to force hint the lot of this right now
<vorlon> rbasak: therefore please hold off on the defaults upload for a bit until that goes through
<rbasak> Here is the new src:mysql-defaults against Debian: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/q4cxqtDrYw/
<rbasak> Skuggen: ^ please review
<rbasak> vorlon: ack.
<Skuggen> rbasak: LGTM
<rbasak> Thanks!
<vorlon> blah, vokoscreen just migrated as a new package w/ autopkgtests, now qtbase-opensource-src is not a candidate.  Overriding.
<rbasak> I'm curious - are you going to kick it back to proposed afterwards?
<rbasak> Though ubuntustudio-video recommends it
<vorlon> rbasak: kick which back?
<Eickmeyer> O_o
<rbasak> vorlon: vokoscreen
<rbasak> vorlon: or are you intending just to skip autopkgtest for the greater good?
<rbasak> Perhaps I don't follow the situation exactly.
<rbasak> I'm ready to upload mysql-defaults when you wish, BTW, or feel free to sponsor my debdiff above if I'm not around.
<vorlon> rbasak: I'm making qtbase not block on the test results, which I am assuming are actually going to pass once they have a chance to run
<rbasak> I see, OK
<vorlon> and actually, between one britney run and the next, the tests have already run and passed
<rbasak> Nearly there!
<rbasak> vorlon: OK, want me to upload mysql-defaults now?
<rbasak> What are your plans with libreoffice-style-hicontrast?
<vorlon> rbasak: wait a bit more, please; I screwed up the hints, I can never remember which is 'force' and which is 'force-hint'
<rbasak> OK
<vorlon> you don't have to upload it tonight, it'll just hang around as an uninstallable binary in eoan until we clean it up
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> Oh, and the force-hint will just ignore the remaining uninstallables?
<vorlon> yes
<rbasak> vorlon: once mysql-8.0 migrates, shall we start the PHP transition immediately?
<vorlon> rbasak: that would be fine
<rbasak> ack
<rbasak> vorlon: britney doesn't seem to like you?
<rbasak> FYI, britney additionally wants sitplus and freeradius vs. your hint in the latest output
<vorlon> rbasak: britney is basically running constantly; the run whose output you now see had already started when I fixed my hint
<vorlon> so the one that's running /now/, whose output you don't see yet, should use the fixed hint
<vorlon> I have mused that we should put a starting timestamp in the output as well
<vorlon> having packages missing from the force-hint shouldn't be a problem, because britney will try other packages for migration after applying the hint
<rbasak> Oooh, here comes a flood of emails
<rbasak> I had been trying to infer the start time from the available timestamps (earliest of excuses, output and the log mtime)
<rbasak> I guess it's earlier than that then.
<rbasak> Oh lovely. pull-debian-source is broken.
<rbasak> Seems related to my port of it to Python 3.
<rbasak> But in the build of ubuntu-dev-tools, the shebang gets reverted to python2. WTF?
<sarnold> iirc there's a dh_python that does those rewritings
<rbasak> AFAICT it's a setuptools feature?
<rbasak> "feature"
<rbasak> The problem is that if it's going to do this then we can't have some scripts on Python 2 and some on Python 3.
<rbasak> Without writing them to support both etc.
#ubuntu-devel 2019-08-23
<rbasak> I guess the easiest way to deal with this is to port the lot :-/
<Skuggen> Hm, the MySQL dep8 test being so slow on arm64 is a pretty general problem
<alkisg> xnox: good morning, could LP #1840945 be caused by mkinitramfs and not by the kernel decompression code? Should I put initramfs-tools in the affects list?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1840945 in linux (Ubuntu) "Concatenated lz4 initrds don't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840945
 * alkisg tests all compressions to see
<Unit193> alkisg: How'd you find that, anywho?
<alkisg> Unit193: I redesigned/rewrote the new ltsp, so that all its code is sent via an additional initramfs; it worked in ALL debian/ubuntu based distros/versions that I tested (like 20 of them) except eoan :)
<alkisg> It's like putting the casper code in an extra initrd, not embedding it into a single one
<Unit193> alkisg: I mess around with ISOs, have been for quite some time.  That broke in Eoan and I'm wondering if it's related.
<alkisg> Unit193: sorry I didn't get which part broke and which one is related
<Unit193> (I'm testing that now)  I got dumped to busybox, sooo.
<alkisg> I did an extensive comparison between eoan and bionic; xz still works, gzip/bzip2 regressed, lz* never worked : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1840945/comments/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1840945 in linux (Ubuntu) "Concatenated lz4 initrds don't work" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Unit193> alkisg: I can't remember what all I'd tried, but using gzip for initramfs didn't help.  Makes sense though.
<alkisg> Unit193: what is the error message that you see in the initramfs? For me, only .xz works in eoan
<Unit193> Most of the time I get no error message.  xz initramfs is the one that works?  Huh.
<alkisg> In my case, where I either concatenate 2 initrds, or send 2 different ones, yes, xz is the only one that works in eoan; while gzip/bzip2 worked in bionic too; and lz* never worked
 * alkisg is seeing the strange new login screen of gdm currently
<Unit193> Cool, trying that now.
<alkisg> Unit193: if you think I might help, `cat /proc/cmdline` when you get the busybox failure, and upload a screenshot if you're using a vm... e.g. I also had netplan issues that broke initramfs
<Unit193> alkisg: 'file=/cdrom/preseed/xubuntu-core.seed initrd=/casper/initrd quiet splash ---'
<alkisg> Unit193: ok, so nothing related to networking or initrd concatenation; it sounds like a different issue. Are you just trying to boot the daily .iso? How, e.g. with kvm?
<Unit193> `kvm -m 512 -cdrom myownfile.iso`, which should be good enough to get it to boot, but alas..
<alkisg> Unit193: ah, do try kvm -m 1024...
<alkisg> Crazy as it sounds, I think I needed more than 512 in one case
<Unit193> This isn't GNOME, so it should be fine.  An error I sometimes see is more related to squashfs.
<Unit193> (But trying it anyway.)
<alkisg> I had the problem while the initramfs decompressed; not later on when services are starting
<Unit193> This, as noted before, isn't a daily ISO but one I mess around with.
<Unit193> 1024 still dumped me at busybox.
<alkisg> busybox usually states the reason, so a screenshot and/or dmesg should probably help
<alkisg> *initramfs-tools usually states the reason...
<alkisg> Although if it's a custom iso, it might be unrelated to #ubuntu-devel, and we should go to some other channel or use pms...
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/dmesg.png https://unit193.net/initial.png
<alkisg> Unit193: and if you `cat /init` you see the /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init file?
<Unit193> Yep.
 * alkisg is puzzled about the (initramfs) prompt of the first picture, that doesn't mention anything at all from the initramfs-tools init script
<alkisg> Why 2 pictures? What changed to get from the first to the second one?
<Unit193> One is initial startup, the other is, as the name indicates, `dmesg`
<alkisg> Aaaah ok so you just didn't get to see the busybox error message because busybox cleared your screen
<alkisg> Put `break=bottom` etc so that you get a chance to see it
<Unit193> Removing 'quiet splash' gets me 'No root device specified.  Boot arguments must contain root='
<alkisg> True, if there's no root= in your /proc/cmdline, it can't mount it
<alkisg> Your boot loader (isolinux I presume) should have provided it
<alkisg> Unit193: let's go somewhere else, I don't think this is related to #ubuntu-devel...
<mwhudson> Unit193: do you have anything in your initrd that sets BOOT to casper
<mwhudson> e.g. this random casperized initrd i have lying around has conf/conf.d/default-boot-to-casper.conf
<Unit193> mwhudson: Looking at the scripts, it should pick that up.  I believe..
<alkisg> Unit193: sorry, mwhudson is right, the casper code takes care of mounting root so root= isn't passed in live cds; i was mistaken
<Unit193> mwhudson: Appending BOOT=casper didn't seem to assist.
<mwhudson> Unit193: boot= not BOOT=
<mwhudson> the other thing could be mismatched uuids but i think that fails differently
<LocutusOfBorg> cpaelzer, #1840749 can't you just use the upstream binaries?
<LocutusOfBorg> just to understand if it is a packaging issue, or to understand when it broke
<LocutusOfBorg> https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=89392
<Unit193> mwhudson: ...Welp, that worked.  Now to figure out why it's not automatically picking that up anymore.
<Unit193> Sorry.
<mwhudson> Unit193: heh i've spent rather too long with my head in the initramfs code lately
<Unit193> Now I feel stupid...  Anyway, let's see if I can't get CASPER_GENERATE_UUID to work.
<LocutusOfBorg> tjaalton, did you upload of python-yubico fail?
<LocutusOfBorg> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/436704667/python-yubico_1.3.2-2_1.3.2-2.1.diff.gz
<LocutusOfBorg> +X-Python-Version: >= 2.8
 * LocutusOfBorg fixup this
<tjaalton> fail how?
<LocutusOfBorg> X-Python-Version: >= 2.8
<LocutusOfBorg> I don't think doko is planning to ever upload a python2 2.8 :D
<tjaalton> explain
<tjaalton> ok
<LocutusOfBorg> python-yubico-tools/amd64 unsatisfiable Depends: python:any (>= 2.8~)
<tjaalton> I didn't touch that part
<LocutusOfBorg> it didn't migrate in debian and ubuntu
<cjwatson> Also note that current Debian practice is to remove the X-Python-Version header entirely
<tjaalton> or did I
<LocutusOfBorg> and moreover you upload contained a binary, so it won't migrate in debian because of this
<LocutusOfBorg> tjaalton, the signature on NMU is your :)
<LocutusOfBorg> I can drop them both and reupload as nmu
<tjaalton> oh I did
<tjaalton> yes please
<tjaalton> it had to go via NEW...
<cjwatson> https://bugs.debian.org/934861 too FYI
<ubottu> Debian bug 934861 in python-yubico-tools "python-yubico-tools not installable, broken dependency" [Important,Open]
<tjaalton> bah
<RikMills> as libmysqlclient-dev is now 8.0.16-0ubuntu3, there is no way of building anything against 5.7?
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks cjwatson I'll update to that
<Unit193> alkisg, mwhudson: Anyway, thanks.  One way or another I'll get it to work now. :)
<mwhudson> Unit193: np, good luck
<alkisg> yw Unit193; /me continues struggling with COMPRESS=...
<Unit193> alkisg: Unfortunately, I can't really help you there as I guess that never gave me issues, even though I did adjust which compressor I used.  Next up: Being able to use zstd there too. :P
<alkisg> :)
<Unit193> Reminds me that I need to file a bug in mkinitramfs/initramfs-tools.  If you specify a compressor that's not available, it'll silently default back to gzip.  If you use verbose it'll warn you "No ${compress} in ${PATH}, using gzip"
<LocutusOfBorg> vorlon, haskell needs sourceful uploads, not just rebuilds
<The_LoudSpeaker> Hey! Does ubuntu 19.04 doesn't support steam?
<The_LoudSpeaker> A friend of mine Installed steam but when he runs it. It doesn't start.
<The_LoudSpeaker> Any help is appreciated.
<EoflaOE> The_LoudSpeaker: 19.10 I think should support steam. How did he install it? Best to ask in #ubuntu.
<LocutusOfBorg> The_LoudSpeaker, is that the client with a lot of security issues and a team who bans people reporting them?
<The_LoudSpeaker> He installed using terminal. apt install I guess.
<LocutusOfBorg> oh and then retract... https://it.slashdot.org/story/19/08/22/211245/valve-says-turning-away-researcher-reporting-steam-vulnerability-was-a-mistake
<LocutusOfBorg> nice
<The_LoudSpeaker> LocutusOfBorg: ?
<LocutusOfBorg> The_LoudSpeaker, their bug-bounty program is scary
<LocutusOfBorg> one person reported a security vulnerability and got banned instead of rewarded
<The_LoudSpeaker> Lol!
<LocutusOfBorg> so he gave a 0 day to the world a few days ago
<LocutusOfBorg> https://it.slashdot.org/story/19/08/21/1928259/researcher-publishes-second-steam-zero-day-after-getting-banned-on-valves-bug-bounty-program
<xnox> alkisg:  well append works for me.....
<xnox> alkisg:  but i also failed to see any benefits to lz4 =/
<LocutusOfBorg> The_LoudSpeaker, how did he install it?
<LocutusOfBorg> what happens if he runs from command line?
<alkisg> xnox: how are you testing?
<LocutusOfBorg> wget http://repo.steampowered.com/steam/archive/precise/steam_latest.deb
<LocutusOfBorg> this one might work
<The_LoudSpeaker> Okay. I will try it in a bit and let you know.
<xnox> alkisg:  bare metal reboots
<xnox> alkisg:  so a lot more ram at least
<LocutusOfBorg> The_LoudSpeaker, and tell him to use a VM, otherwise somebody might hack his laptop LOL
<alkisg> xnox: no I mean, are you using the cpio date.img that I mentioned in the bug report? And cat initrd.lz4 date.img > initrd.img ?
<cpaelzer> LocutusOfBorg: yes I can and will use the upstream binaries
<xnox> alkisg:  as i commented on your bug report, the lz4 call you do is invalid.
<The_LoudSpeaker> We have a strong firewall. LocutusOfBorg
<cpaelzer> didn't know they are provided
<alkisg> xnox: ah, I wasn't notified yet; refreshing/reading...
<LocutusOfBorg> thanks cpaelzer , it might be really trivial to bisect, avoiding lots of rebuilds
<LocutusOfBorg> The_LoudSpeaker, it was a joke, I don't really care :D
<alkisg> xnox: so the additional initrd needs to be compressed using the same algorithm? Can't it be a cpio with no compression?
<The_LoudSpeaker> LocutusOfBorg: same here.
<xnox> alkisg:  kernel only knows how to read certain formats of lz4, which is not the default.
<alkisg> xnox: date.img isn't lz4; it's cpio; I'm not compressing it
<xnox> alkisg:         -l     Use Legacy format (typically for Linux Kernel compression)
<xnox>               Note : -l is not compatible with -m (--multiple) nor -r
<xnox> alkisg:  well, your bug description says you are.....
<alkisg> xnox: I mean in my tests in #3
<xnox> # echo date.txt | cpio -oH newc | lz4 > date.img => will never work
<alkisg>  echo date.txt | cpio -oH newc > date.img
<LocutusOfBorg> The_LoudSpeaker, it might be premature to run valve on devel systems, unless you know how to debug issues
<LocutusOfBorg> 19.10 is not even released yet
<LocutusOfBorg> still under development, and valve team I doubt are caring right now about it
<xnox> alkisg:  but how was initrd.lz4 created? with or without -l ?
<LocutusOfBorg> and I also doubt any ubuntu developer is caring about fixing it :)
<LocutusOfBorg> I might care if it breaks on 18.04 :D
<alkisg> xnox: with update-initramfs -u; whatever code that has, I believe should be fine
<The_LoudSpeaker> LocutusOfBorg: ummm what valve? Can't get the context here.
<xnox> alkisg:  depends on the release and if the tools were installed ;-)
<alkisg> xnox: I changed COMPRESS= and ran update-initramfs -u for each case; it's yesterday's eoan build
<xnox> alkisg:  mixed compression i would expect to work, because early initrds are all uncompressed
<LocutusOfBorg> The_LoudSpeaker, steam/valve, same thing
<alkisg> The initial lz4 was the one from the live cd, I didn't re-generate it
<LocutusOfBorg> valve is the corporation providing steam
 * LocutusOfBorg can say that his ubuntu 18.04LTS with steam works
<xnox> alkisg:  why are you using a livecd initrd?
 * LocutusOfBorg starts a game and blames The_LoudSpeaker for this!
<alkisg> xnox: I'm going to test "same compression", which I haven't tested in #3, but even if that works, it doesn't help ltsp much as we'd need one ltsp.img image per chroot then...
<xnox> alkisg:  what are you doing anyway?
<alkisg> xnox: I rewrote a netbooting software called ltsp.org; the new technique is to send all the netbooting code as an additional initramfs, from ipxe or grub or wherever
<alkisg> But either "second initramfs" or "concatenated initramfs" didn't work in eoan, while it worked anywhere else (tried 20 distro/versions from jessie and 16.04 to recent versions)
<The_LoudSpeaker> LocutusOfBorg: ohh! Yeah forgot steam is provided by valve.
<The_LoudSpeaker> Also, I haven't really tried steam on ubuntu myself. This is the first time I am(we are) trying. Coz a couple of days ago windows gave us a bigg BT.
<Unit193> mwhudson: The mismatch uuid is 'unable to find a medium containing a live filesystem', isn't it? :)
<mwhudson> Unit193: yes, that sounds like it
<alkisg> xnox: if you plan to revert from lz4 to gzip, then ltsp isn't affected and we can postpone this issue for a later release... :)
<Unit193> mwhudson: So yes, the issue I fixed tonoght I'd already fixed, but in doing so "fixed" nothing as I got that and mistook it for a similar issue.  Coolio!
<alkisg> xnox: thanks; indeed lz4+lz4 or gzip+gzip work fine; it's lz4+cpio that have the issue. Where would that bug be, in the kernel decompression code or in mkinitramfs?
<xnox> alkisg:  i do not know, but it's unlikely to be mkinitramfs. especially for the uncompressed cased.
<xnox> alkisg:  you could try prepending, i.e. cpio+lz4
<xnox> alkisg:  as that is how early initrd works
<alkisg> xnox: ty, trying
<alkisg> xnox: that indeed works! The mixed compression issue is still there but LTSP isn't affected anymore. Thanks again :)
<xnox> alkisg:  yeah early initrd (ie. prepend uncompressed) is a kernel initrd implementation feature and should work (that's how microcode loading works) mixed compression initrds is interesting, and i would call it a linux kernel feature request, as initramfs-tools doesn't create those by default (it only does (multiple uncompressed) + 1 single compressed)
 * alkisg will create a ltsp.gzip file and put it inside an uncompressed cpio, for maximum compatibility, and gunzip it inside the initramfs..
<alkisg> xnox: hrm, although, putting ltsp.img as the first uncompressed cpio, will break microcode loading, won't it? :/
<alkisg> "At boot time, the kernel performs the followings: If an uncompressed cpio archive exists at the start of the initramfs, extract and load the microcode from it to CPU. "
<xnox> alkisg:  it should not
<xnox> alkisg:  check dmseg to see if microcode update was applied on baremetal machine or not.
<alkisg> ty, will do
<xnox> alkisg:  we have verified this before, but worth double checking, by default we ship two early initrds + one compressed one, and we do observe microcode being loaded from the second early initrd on intel platforms.
<alkisg> Great; will have to check tomorrow as I can only connect remotely to the office now; ty
<The_LoudSpeaker> LocutusOfBorg: Thanks! The deb file you gave as a link worked. Playing CSGO at 250 fps now. :p
<vorlon> rbasak: have you seen that some packages' autopkgtests seem to be unhappy with mysql-8.0 becoming the default? https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#mysql-defaults
<rbasak> vorlon: that's odd. I will follow up but it will be next week.
<vorlon> rbasak: ack
<evaluate> Hello.
<evaluate> Are the scripts which generate for example the ubuntu-18.04-live-server-amd64.iso open sourced? And if yes, where can one find them?
<Skuggen> vorlon, rbasak: There's also a recurring issue with the mysql-8.0 dep8 on arm64 timing out
<Skuggen> e.g. for openssl, libaio and lsb
<vorlon> Skuggen: do you know why the mysql-8.0 tests take so much longer than mysql-8.0 did?
<Skuggen> There are more tests, but not that many more. I think maybe it's because of the amount of times the test suite needs a "clean" install, since --initialize takes longer in 8.0 than 5.7
<Skuggen> I'll see if I can find out more next week, as well as look at the mysql-defaults failures. Mediawiki might be the same as cacti: Uses a native php connector that doesn't supporth the new default auth plugin in 8.0
<vorlon> Skuggen: if the increased testsuite runtime is legitimate, then we can whitelist the package on the infrastructure to change the timeout; I just prefer someone to have analyzed it first to confirm it's legitimate
<Skuggen> I'm _almost_ sure it's legitimate, but I can try to get confirmation, and see if maybe there are ways to improve it
#ubuntu-devel 2019-08-25
<vorlon> Unit193: xfce4-sensors-plugin was your sync from experimental, it's been stuck in -proposed for 207 days due to a reproducible s390x build failure.  Should we just dump it from -proposed?
<Unit193> vorlon: It builds fine on that in Debian, but seems it's missing some ifdefs and I don't have any way to test if a patch would fail or work properly in Ubuntu.  I can't imagine it's needed on s390x and the GTK3 port would be nice to have, but yeah just kick it out for now anyway.
<vorlon> Unit193: no way to test> well you have ppa access
<Unit193> That's build, not function.  I forgot s390x was enabled for PPAs now.
<Unit193> vorlon: Regardless, that specific version won't ever work.
#ubuntu-devel 2020-08-17
<mwhudson> are there any ongoing transitions that are _not_ entangled in icu/json-c/boost etc? :)
<tumbleweed> :P
<mwhudson> some haskell stuff?
<mwhudson> ah boo i can't just grab a changes file from the +queue page and re-sign and re-upload it because the buildinfo file isn't accessible
<mwhudson> Runner died for /tmp/autopkgtest.JEru4l/autopkgtest_tmp/build-and-evaluate-test-packages/eval/checks/appstream-metadata/appstream-metadata: Cannot parse line Can't opendir(/dev/.lxd-mounts): Permission denied
<mwhudson> what is this nonsense
<mwhudson> whut https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-groovy/groovy/amd64/b/beets/20200817_041427_07bd4@/log.gz
<mwhudson> -> autopkgtest [04:13:58]: rebooting testbed after setup commands that affected boot
<mwhudson> Exit request sent.
<mwhudson> sudo: /tmp/autopkgtest-run-wrapper: command not found
<Laney> O_O
<mwhudson> i'm going to retry and pretend i didn't see that i think
<rafaeldtinoco> sergiodj: iirc I have sponsored a sync for rabbitmq-server for you, just saw it has excuses (fyio)
<nibbon_> o/
<nibbon_> is it true that ubuntu wants to discontinue preseed?
<rafaeldtinoco> nibbon_: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/server-installer-plans-for-20-04-lts/13631
<nibbon_> rafaeldtinoco: thx
<sergiodj> rafaeldtinoco: yeah, it's blocked by ruby-bunny, I'm looking into what's going on
<rafaeldtinoco> sergiodj: k
<sergiodj> rafaeldtinoco: thanks for the heads up
<xnox> nibbon_:  that's for server; desktop uses ubiquity-flavour preseed still.
<nibbon_> xnox: I have some procedures that use paker with preseed, that's why I asked
<nibbon_> if ubuntu gets rid of preseed I'll have to rewrite all of them
<nibbon_> not sure I'm gonna like it :)
<rbasak> Think of it this way. Moving on from the arcanity of the preseed format will be an improvement for every person who has to learn it afresh
<nibbon_> where I can find documentation about the new format?
<rbasak> https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/install/autoinstall
<rbasak> Discussion previously at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/please-review-design-for-automated-server-installs/11923
<ahasenack> vorlon: hi, is it ok to push now the seed changes for ubuntu-meta (ubuntu-server) wrt motd-news-config for the stable releases? Namely xenial, bionic and focal
<ahasenack> asking in the context of the .N iso releases that were in the works, but I *think* are done already (just double checking)
<vorlon> ahasenack: yes
<mwhudson> good morning
<petrj> hey guys, is there a utility that can read the liblttng-ust-cyg-profile's trace dump and map all addresses to function names in c++ source code? i tried babletrace, but does not output the function names.
<sarnold> petrj: do you have the coresponding -dbgsym packagesinstalled? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debug%20Symbol%20Packages
<petrj> sarnold, yes. in fact i have the source code which i just compiled myself (with debug symbols). gdb can forexample show me the filenames, function names and line numbers. so it is good from that regards.
<sarnold> petrj: oh dang :( I was hoping this was going to be an easy one, heh
<ahasenack> vorlon: ok, all done and uploaded to the sru queue
<ahasenack> groovy is done already
<mwhudson>   348 | #error "Invalid flint release: e-antic needs flint-2.5.2 or flint-2.5.3" bzzt
<mwhudson> is the flint transition happening in debian too?
<mwhudson> mdeslaur: hey do you still look after usb-creator?
<mwhudson> wxl: or you? :)
<mwhudson> mdeslaur, wxl: anyways, i think it's dependencies on syslinux, syslinux-legacy, syslinux-common can be dropped
<mwhudson> and it can probably be architecture: all now? but not sure that's worth it
<wxl> mwhudson: mdeslaur is who you want to talk to. i just pushed a patch through.
<mwhudson> ack
#ubuntu-devel 2020-08-18
<mdeslaur> mwhudson: oh yeah, those can probably be dropped...I'll look at it soon
<danboid> didrocks: I've not actually tested the GRUB ZFS History menu yet. When you choose a snapshot, to it revert (rollback) the pools to that snapshot or does it just boot into the snapshot and yo have to manually roll back if required?
<danboid> *does it revert
<didrocks> danboid: it doesnât revert but creates a new clone
<didrocks> so that you can revert the revert if needed
<danboid> So after using the history menu, a clone of the chosen snapshot becomes the new default boot environment?
<didrocks> exactly, if the boot is successful
<didrocks> (meaning, you reached default.target)
<danboid> OK cool. Thanks
<didrocks> yw :)
<mwhudson> mdeslaur: i made a merge proposal for you, i think, did i click the button...
<mwhudson> ah thanks you uploaded
<realtime-neil> Why can't I substvar my *.changes file like this? https://paste.debian.net/1160416/
#ubuntu-devel 2020-08-19
<sigv> what does incoming to focal mean exactly in `rls-ff-incoming` tag? trying to figure out status of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debmirror/+bug/1821251 considering the bug has been fixed in upstream (debian) repository.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821251 in debmirror (Ubuntu) "please add cnf support to debmirror" [Medium,Triaged]
<eoli3n_> Hi
<eoli3n_> since python2 is not supported anymore, how to deal with tools using as shebang /usr/bin/env python ?
<Unit193> Either port to python3, or change that 'python' to 'python2' and ensure it's installed for the time being?
<eoli3n_> Unit193 that's a set fo scripts for science, i didn't write them
<eoli3n_> https://www.pci.uni-heidelberg.de/cms/mctdh.html
<eoli3n_> i sent a mail
<eoli3n_> Thanks Unit193
<cjwatson> seb128: Re langpack-o-matic (from #launchpad), I don't *object* to removing eoan here but I'd rather that be a separate step taken by people who more normally maintain langpack stuff than me - I don't know what cleanup it requires
<cjwatson> seb128: Are you able to merge this or should I poke sil2100?  I don't think there's an automatic mergebot here
<mdeslaur> mwhudson: oh, sorry about that, I didn't notice the merge proposal
<mwhudson> mdeslaur: it was hardly complicated :)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<seb128> cjwatson, hey, ack for 19.10, and I've merged the change now
<cjwatson> seb128: Thanks
<seb128> cjwatson, np, thank you for helping with the groovy translations opening!
<cjwatson> seb128: So we haven't had a langpack yet of course, but I don't think that needs to block unhiding translations for groovy at this point - do you agree?
<seb128> yes, agreed
<cjwatson> seb128: Oh, maybe you already did so?  Somebody did
<seb128> though the unhiding might be done already, I think Gunnar mentioned changing a setting yesterday
<seb128> the contributor who was pinging around did talk to him as well it seems
<cjwatson> Yeah, it all seems to be open now
<cjwatson> So I think we're done here
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> thanks again!
<rbasak> RAOF: vala is another GNOME MRE request. And it's special, so I have greater concern on this one that we make the right call. Details in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala/+bug/1891318/comments/2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891318 in vala (Ubuntu) " [SRU] Update to vala 0.48.9 in focal " [Undecided,New]
<kenvandine> I've was working on the libhinawa transtion, which i thought would be done this morning however libhinawa ended up on the dep list this morning with an unknown status
<kenvandine> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/auto-libhinawa.html
<kenvandine> can anyone help me understand what's up with it?
<kenvandine> libhinawa has migrated to release, so just why it's still showing up.  Maybe just a tooling issue
<mitya57> Hi! If a source is in main but one of its binaries is in universe, will it be automatically moved to main if I start depending on it from a main package? Or I should file a MIR for binary?
<mitya57> (Dependency in question is python3-sphinx â python3-snowballstemmer, from src:snowball)
<Laney> mitya57: no to both, but it will block in proposed until someone fixes it
<Laney> but can be done without an MIR
<mitya57> Laney: ack, so I should ping an archive admin?
<Laney> is it already blocking?
<mitya57> Laney: no, not uploaded yet
<Laney> mitya57: ah, ok, ping me or someone when it is showing as blocking in update_excuses and it can be fixed then
<mitya57> Ok, thanks
<rafaeldtinoco> vorlon: just saw libopeniscsiusr being rejected for groovy. you want me to fix it to match sonames in Ubuntu and re-propose it do Debian or you prefer to give up on this merge for this cycle ?
<rafaeldtinoco> i've done many tests to it, it looks good (apart from this new binary package and soname mismatch)
<rafaeldtinoco> Ill give it a try with correct lib name
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg: https://tracker.debian.org/news/1170138/accepted-recommonmark-060ds-1-source-into-unstable/
<LocutusOfBorg> mitya57, please upload also in Ubuntu, or sync whenever possible
<mitya57> LocutusOfBorg: it will be auto-synced I guess
<LocutusOfBorg> so, tomorrow I'll retry llvm_* stuff
<vorlon> rafaeldtinoco: yeah, with a proper name for the runtime lib package, that should be fine to resubmit
#ubuntu-devel 2020-08-20
<cpaelzer> rbalint: or +1 duty people): https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/s/systemd/groovy/amd64 looks even worse than usual - is that known and being worked on?
<yahn> Wimpress mind if I send you a DM on here?
<cpaelzer> seems just to combine chances un multiple flaky tests https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4NgB2WSqVj/ unfortunately e.g. on x86 0.375*0.4*0.35 = 5% which is no fun
 * Laney +1s in for the first time!
<cpaelzer> welcome to +1 Laney, do you have release-team powers to consider https://code.launchpad.net/~paelzer/britney/hints-ubuntu-groovy-mmdebstrap/+merge/389586 ?
<Laney> sure
<cpaelzer> rbalint: about the bad systemd test rate - how about (until better) ignoring the RC of systemd-fsckd and tests-in-lxd - those seem to be the most flaky tests atm
<cpaelzer> by ignoring the RC you could still collect data e.g. see if changes affect the rate
<cpaelzer> for now I'm trying to gather more data on systemd subtest results on retries if no on speaks up about the topic, but TBH I hate to waste test resources like that :-/
<cpaelzer> The recent +1 mails didn't cover the topic either AFAICS, we sometimes had bugs on those things let me check if there is one open this time ...
<cpaelzer> 1892130 is about one of the flaky tests, but no discussion/content yet - 1891527 is about kernel 5.8 hich the testbeds are not yet on
<cpaelzer> none of the others suonds similar
<cpaelzer> hmf, I'll try staring a different direction for now giving rbalint and others a chance to reply here :-)
<didrocks> cpaelzer: hey, argh, just saw you did golang-github-openprinting-goipp, I thought I would handle those (but we forgot the assignee) during our weekly meeting. Anyway, Iâll still post what I found
<Laney> tjaalton: I was checking out some random stuff in excuses and I noticed some items are waiting on python3-ipaserver which you disabled in Ubuntu, what's the way forward there?
<cpaelzer> didrocks: ok, better twice than not at all
<cpaelzer> didrocks: the "golang-gopkg-ini.v1-dev" I spotted before and tkamppeter is working with the author to remove it (somewhere up in the bug)
<cpaelzer> didrocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ipp-usb/+bug/1891157/comments/6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891157 in ipp-usb (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ipp-usb" [High,New]
<didrocks> cpaelzer: yeah, and that one is bringing a ton of deps due to convey, this is where I pinged Till yesterday and he came with the removal. Still, I think posting my report can help if one day we want to promote it
<didrocks> (hence posting even if status is invalid for that one)
<cpaelzer> Laney: fyi the mmdebootstrap reset helped, thanks!
<tjaalton> Laney: what's waiting for it? the server still doesn't support bind 9.16, but might make it for groovy
<tjaalton> Laney: I guess you mean freeipa-healthcheck.. I need to break the circular dep
<Laney> tjaalton: yeah something like that
<Laney> I think there was something else... dogtag?
<Laney> was a little group waiting to go in together
<eoli3n> Hi
<eoli3n> zyga-mbp chromium browser still not working with home mouted through NFS
<eoli3n> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8936
<zyga-mbp> eoli3n I'm in a call now
<eoli3n> np
<zyga-mbp> eoli3n can you snap refresh core --edge
<zyga-mbp> and tell me if that works or not?
<zyga-mbp> and if not, let's chat about details
<zyga-mbp> but I have calls for the next two hours so I may respond slowly
<eoli3n> np about this, tommorow if you have more time
<eoli3n> snap "core" is not installed
<eoli3n> that's what i get
<zyga-mbp> can you run "snap version"
<zyga-mbp> and do the same with snapd snap,
<zyga-mbp> (switch it to edge)
<zyga-mbp> eoli3n and thank you for sticking to it, it's important to get used feedback that can be acted upn
<zyga-mbp> *uopn
<zyga-mbp> *upon
<eoli3n> http://ix.io/2uJ0
<eoli3n> zyga-mbp: and do the same with snapd snap, -> i don't get what you mean
<zyga-mbp> yeah, we have not released for a loong while
<zyga-mbp> this will be in 2.46
<zyga-mbp> try the beta channel or edge
<zyga-mbp> eoli3n sorry, refresh the snapd snap to the edge channel
<zyga-mbp> this will give you recent master
<zyga-mbp> we just need to work through various product release blockers
<eoli3n> i check how to do this
<zyga-mbp> snap refresh snapd --edge
<zyga-mbp> that should do it
<eoli3n> thanks i'm on it
<eoli3n> ok for snap refresh snapd --edge
<eoli3n> then just retry to launch chromium ?
<zyga-mbp> yeah
<eoli3n> it seems to work, thanks ! when will this be released .
<eoli3n> ?
<zyga-mbp> in a few weeks
<zyga-mbp> it's complicated
<zyga-mbp> we have a beta already
<zyga-mbp> but some important bits that block 2.46 are not ready yet
<eoli3n> so how to workaround with ansible ?
<zyga-mbp> eoli3n just refresh to beta or edge
<zyga-mbp> beta is safer
<zyga-mbp> (refresh snapd to beta)
<eoli3n> https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/modules/snap_module.html#parameter-channel
<eoli3n> if i change it to beta, it should be ok, righr ?
<eoli3n> right
<zyga-mbp> yes, beta was forked from master recently
<zyga-mbp> there will be a new beta image soon as well
<zyga-mbp> eoli3n just the snapd snap needs to be in beta
<zyga-mbp> other snaps can follow any channek
<zyga-mbp> *channel
<eoli3n> zyga-mbp -> http://ix.io/2uJ3 ?
<zyga-mbp> yeah
<eoli3n> thanks again
<zyga-mbp> though I haven't used ansible for snaps so I hope :)
<zyga-mbp> but it looks good
<eoli3n> lets try anyway
<Laney> I've got this feeling that meson should be in main really
<xnox> yeah
<xnox> meson+ninja is the new autotools
<mwhudson> good morning
<sarnold> hey mwhudson :)
#ubuntu-devel 2020-08-21
<nibbon_> o/
<nibbon_> what's the best way to see what patches landed in a package?
<juliank> didrocks999: any wishes for grubzfs-testsuite focal SRU?
<juliank> didrocks999: Because I need to update it for the new grub changes
<juliank> didrocks999: same as in groovy
<rbasak> nibbon_: which package?
<nibbon_> qemu-*3ubuntu6.4 would like to know whether this patch https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/tree/debian/patches/ubuntu/pre-bionic-256k-ipxe-efi-roms.patch?h=ubuntu/focal-updates&id=79e2f1c79b1ef72f818ef1de0bbe820929cfe691
<nibbon_> is in there
<nibbon_> I would say yes
<rbasak> nibbon_: https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/tree/debian/patches/series?h=import/1%254.2-3ubuntu6.4
<rbasak> That's the tag for version 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.4 of qemu
<rbasak> The series file there shows you all the enable patches
<rbasak> The series file there shows you all the enabled patches
<rbasak> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/tree/debian/patches/ubuntu/pre-bionic-256k-ipxe-efi-roms.patch?h=import/1%254.2-3ubuntu6.4 (specifically against that tag) shows you the contents of the patch with that name specifically in version 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.4 of qemu
<nibbon_> rbasak: so I'm right, ubuntu/pre-bionic-256k-ipxe-efi-roms.patch is included into 3ubuntu6.4 of qemu, isn't it?
<rbasak> Yes
<nibbon_> rbasak: cool, thx!
<didrocks999> juliank: feel free to upload it directly
<didrocks999> juliank: there is no VCS and I donât think that other things than small fixes are planned, so letâs not bother with it
<ahasenack> tjaalton: hi, thanks for handling my base-files/ubuntu-meta sru
<ahasenack> tjaalton: looks like I forgot the bug in ubuntu-meta's d/changelog for xenial and bionic, right?
<ahasenack> tjaalton: base-files also has a new package that has to be accepted, and it needs to land in main
<ahasenack> tjaalton: will you reject the bionic ubuntu-meta too?
<Laney> cjwatson: can you remind me what it is that needs to be modified for the archive to start emitting Task for a new seed please?
<Laney> ISTR lp:ubuntu-archive-publishing but that seems wrong or I can't manage to find it in there
<juliank> didrocks999: ack
<sigv> https://code.launchpad.net/debmirror seems to be misconfigured -- historically set up to import lp:debmirror Bazaar branch in trunk series from outdated git://git.debian.org/collab-maint/debmirror.git when the upstream is actually at https://salsa.debian.org/debian/debmirror.git as can be verified from https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/debmirror VCS info
<sigv> as I am not a signed Canonical contributor and unable to provide a "Canonical Project Manager or contact", I am not sure if I can request a code import
<Laney> sigv: We can't help with that in here - I suggest you try #launchpad where there's a help contact named in the topic
<sigv> Laney: thank you! will pick it up there!
<Laney> cjwatson: ah, generate_extra_overrides.py has replaced whatever was there before and we no longer need to enumerate the tasks?
<Laney> or do I just misremember that this was ever required...
<cjwatson> Laney: New seed or new seed collection?
<Laney> cjwatson: the former
<cjwatson> Laney: OK, it should automatically work for seeds with Task-* headers
<cjwatson> And yes, it's controlled by lp:ubuntu-archive-publishing
<Laney> cjwatson: OK, that's great, thanks
<cjwatson> Laney: Depending on the exact details you may need to tweak seed headers a bit to get them to emit the right task name, but hopefully that's reasonably obvious from generate_extra_overrides.py
<Laney> nod, I found getTaskName()
<Laney> and pointed Wimpress at it since that's who will be doing the MP at least initially :)
<bdmurray> Is there a procedure for autopkgtests which lie? https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-groovy/groovy/amd64/s/silx/20200817_203349_f83fd@/log.gz
<danboid> popey, Yr rpi-imager is fubar, under 18.04 at least
<danboid> popey, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/NbvWpFjKqZ/
<bdmurray> danboid: can you try running it in a different directory? it works fine for me
#ubuntu-devel 2020-08-22
<The_LoudSpeaker> quick query: Is there a way to put co-authors in a quilt patch?
<The_LoudSpeaker> there was a patch put in by someone else and I am improving it.
<Skuggen> I've previously put original authors in the description (or just left them as author, if it's a trivial refresh), though not entirely sure what the policy is
<Skuggen> Or you could add your own patch separately, assuming the original doesn't actually fail.
