#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-18
<\sh> mdz: hehe...my crystall ball :) i like it :)
<\sh> mdz: anyways..I will get him into the team...
<ogra> if he answers :)
<\sh> he will :)
<mdz> please CC me on the correspondence
<\sh> mdz: k
<mdz> does that resolve everything regarding wine for the purposes of this meeting?
<ogra> sure
<\sh> mdz: thx
<mdz> great
<sabdfl> we should definitely have Master MOTU primarily responsible for UVF decisions
<mdz> are there any maintainer candidates to be processed?
<ajmitch> sabdfl: which is dholbach  & ogra at the moment, iirc
<ogra> yay, more work :)
<\sh> ogra: thx for taking it :)
<ogra> mdz, nope... 
<dholbach> unfortunately, i'm not that often on IRC, people would have to mail me
<ajmitch> ogra: you like it though
<ogra> ajmitch, sure.... keeps me on track ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach: just hand out your phone number for us
<ogra> hehe
<mdz> ok
<\sh> ajmitch: what about u?
<dholbach> yeah
<mdz> any other business?
<dholbach> that's an excellent idea, ajmitch :)
<\sh> mdz: w8 pls
<ajmitch> \sh: what about me?
<mdz> \sh: yes?
<sabdfl> dholbach, ogra: am happy for you to delegate more UVF decisions to the community, as long as you are careful with infrastructure stuff that has lots of dependencies
<\sh> ajmitch: to be UVF spokesman?
<\sh> I like the idea
<dholbach> sabdfl: ok
<ajmitch> \sh: you'll have to ask the others
<\sh> ajmitch: who?
<ogra> sabdfl, thanks :)
<ajmitch> \sh: ogra & dholbach, for one
<\sh> if ogra and dholbach have the time ++++ for me..
<ajmitch> \sh: I can do it, but it's not my decision of course :)
<ogra> \sh, i trust your judgement if it comes to packages... be one of our delegates then as well as i trust ajmitch 
<ogra> siretart, what about you ? 
<dholbach> i'm sure we'll manage
<\sh> then it's settled
<siretart> ogra: sure!
<ogra> oki.. we can manage the deatils elsewhere, thanks mdz
<\sh> I'm breaking my harddrive again :)
<dholbach> what about yet-another-wiki-page?
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> dholbach: not like the last one, pls
<siretart> dholbach: you know my love for wiki pages ;)
* ogra starts to prefer mails he can filter
<dholbach> that's settled then :)
<\sh> done..thx mdz
<\sh> thx sabdfl 
<mdz> ok
<mdz> is there any other business which is not on the agenda?
<\sh> doesn't look like...beer now? gf is w8ing as well
<mdz> ok, meeting adjourned
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<\sh> thx to u 
<sabdfl> night all
<ogra> \sh, you already call her gf ... aha
<\sh> ogra:oops
<ogra> night sabdfl 
<dholbach> bye sabdfl :)
<\sh> ogra: sorry..;)
<ajmitch> bye sabdfl 
<ogra> hehehe
<dholbach> i'm off to bed too
<dholbach> good night
<siretart> good night, mark!
<ogra> night dholbach 
<ajmitch> night dholbach 
<siretart> good night, daniel!
<\sh> cu dholbach 
<\sh> did i say gf?
<ogra> probably i just read it :-P
<\sh> yeah me too
<\sh> and I don't like the reading
<siretart> O damn
<ajmitch> \sh: you did, sorry
<siretart> I forgot another point I wanted to be discussed
<ajmitch> \sh: met her last week? :)
<siretart> how do we want to proceed with the libaa transition
<siretart> do we want to go with it or leave it?
<\sh> ajmitch: something like that...u read my blog entry *g*
<\sh> she's makeing be crazy..just like the g++ stuff..
<\sh> s/be/me/
<ogra> \sh, weia
<siretart> ogra: how do you think about libaa?
<\sh> ogra: ja
<ogra> siretart, changing it from aalib ?
<\sh> ogra: "mich hats voll erwischt"
<siretart> ogra: unstable is making a transition from aalib to libaa right now
<ajmitch> siretart: it's moderatly useless?
<siretart> and there has been this upload in revu: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=118
<siretart> ajmitch: so you are for sticking with aalib, right?
<ajmitch> siretart: there aren't too many packages that depends on aalib1
<ogra> siretart, it has only 29 rdeps...
<siretart> that's right, too.
<\sh> 1. what is aa*? 2. unstable is etch right now...so they're lacking 
<sistpoty> ascii art
<ajmitch> siretart: I think unstable compatibility can be good
<\sh> oh important
<ajmitch> a few of those rdepends are in main, I think
<ogra> \sh, yes, for some functions in gimp for example
<siretart> \sh: try installing "bb" on hoary - and you'll see what aa is about ;)
<\sh> nono
<ajmitch> siretart: aaquake is more fun
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> I mean, can we deal with it ourselfs or do we need someone from main? ogra? ,-)
<siretart> ajmitch: hehe
<ogra> \sh, gimp is in main...
<ogra> \sh, but feel free to bug me for main rebuilds
<\sh> so..it's also far more important
<ajmitch> ogra: and libxine
<\sh> ogra: any time :)
<ogra> ajmitch, more, i guess a bunch of the libs too... i'm to lazy to look it up right now :)
<ajmitch> ogra: yep :)
<\sh> ok..for me it's ok to go with d-upstream
<\sh> i have ace on my list..
<siretart> ok
<\sh> ogra?
<ogra> lets move it over
<ogra> (to -motu)
<siretart> ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-19
<mdke> evening all
<mdke> who do we have here then?
<mdke> <-- matthew east
<judax> <-- Troy Williams
<venda> me
<mdke> venda = sean wheller
<mdke> lazy...
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-20
<venda> me, myself and my shadow?
<rob^> evening
<Mez> <-- Martin Meredith
<Mez> so what meeting is this?
<rob^> <-- robert stoffers
<Mez> oh, Doc team :D
<mdke> this is the documentation meeting
<mdke> ok all, agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
<mdke> by Member Introductions I presume he means new members?
<mdke> introduce yourself rob^!!
* rob^ =
<rob^> Ok, I'm an Australian, 23 and made the switch to Ubuntu about 2 months ago
<mdke> welcome :)
<mdke> a related matter is how on earth are we going to get rob^ and mgalvin commit access?
<rob^> I'm an ex-Debian user, but like Ubuntu for its regular release schedule and up-to-date packages
<rob^> and the fact it has apt-get :)
<judax> welcome, rob!
<mdke> rob^, what do you envisage working on in the docteam? (we know the answer, but just in case you have more plans...)
<rob^> The faq guide takes my fancy at the moment, but time will tell I guess
<mdke> cool
<rob^> I'm cycling onto shiftwork soon, so I'll actually be getting *paid* to write :)
<mdke> awesome!
<judax> getting paid, what is that?
<mdke> anyone have any ideas re: commit access?
<mdke> i have spoken to henrik
<mdke> we have bugged elmo
<rob^> nothing better to do, I have already worn out one xbox controler
<mdke> what more can we do?
* venda pinged mdz
* mdke nods
<mdke> i guess we just have to wait for debconf to end :-(
<venda> guess so
<mdke> not good, considering the 48 hour undertaking we were given previously
<mdke> sorry rob^ :(
<mdke> we're trying our best!
<rob^> yeah I know
<judax> it has been more than 48hrs that is for sure
<rob^> oh did I mention I did a little work for the KDE docteam? I even won a prize which never turned up
<mdke> o.o
<Riddell> rob^: what was the prize?
<mdke> cool
<judax> venda!
<mdke> lol @ Riddell's highlights
<rob^> umm I think it was a t-shirt
<Riddell> mdke: hay, I was watching this anyway :)
<Riddell> rob^: want me to hassle someone?
<mdke> don't disillusion me!
<ogra> mdke, you wont belive how many ppl watch ;)
<mdke> argh
<rob^> Riddell, go for it, it was a long time ago
<mdke> ogra, :)
<rob^> though
<jbailey> mdke: It's true. =)
<mdke> lol
<mdke> that's really cool
<mdke> we want to promote awareness of our activities in the community
<mdke> next agenda item?
<mdke> any more for the first one?
<rob^> I'm good
<mdke> mgalvin isn't here so he can introduce himself another time
<judax> nope, AIs next
<mdke> AGENDA ITEM:  Follow-up on ARs (Action Required) from previous meeting (see DocumentationTeamMeetingSummary6)
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> which documents have/have not got specs?
<mdke> the ubuntu userguide doesn't have one to my knowledge
<judax> I did kquickguide spec
<mdke> cool
<rob^> does the faq? I dont remember seeing one
<venda> no time:-(
<judax> hehe
<venda> just plodding on kubuntu-docs
<mdke> its only a paragraph that's required really
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide
<mdke> I will do one for the Ubuntu userguide
<venda> K
<judax> following jeffsch example on style guide makes it go quick, really
<mdke> (although in parenthesis I should say that the two guys who are taking charge of the userguide have not done anything yet)
* venda nods
<mdke> we can come onto that later
<mdke> what else is action required?
<mdke> re: shipping in HTML
<judax> think that was decided
<mdke> i spoke to mdz about that at the edubuntu summit
<mdke> he said that there was probably no need to go through the TB for that
<mdke> so that box can be ticked
<mdke> judax, yeah
* venda smiles
<rob^> mdke, I know the qandaset the faq uses doesnt display at all using yelp
<rob^> html may be the only option for it
<mdke> rob^, yeah the decision to ship html was taken, it was just a question of informing -devel
<venda> rob^: correct
<rob^> ah good
<jsgotangco> sorry i arrived so late
<mdke> ok we can move on
<mdke> morning jsgotangco 
<mdke> what else is Action Required?
<mdke> docteam.ubuntu.com?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mdke> apparently the servers are being sorted this week
* venda sighs
<mdke> henrik said we should have it by next week
<mdke> i wouldn't count on it, but that is good news anyhow
<venda> next year more like
<mdke> oy
<venda> just tell it as it is :-)
<mdke> optimism = good
<mdke> anyhow, as everyone knows, we have found some decent temporary solutions, thanks for the kubuntu team and tseng
<venda> better order help.ubuntu.com early
<mdke> agreed
<jsgotangco> ask elmo?
* rob^ nods
<venda> ha
<mdke> ok  is "jdub's suggestion on existing documentation already in the distro" an ActionRequired?
<jsgotangco> well i've started on it actually
<mdke> cool
<jsgotangco> but im stumped on some things like sk
<jsgotangco> i won't be able to do it on my own
<mdke> i think we need guidance from jdub on it
<jsgotangco> its way bit too complicated on my current skill set
<Burgundavia> good timing
<mdke> wb
<jsgotangco> well not just jdub imo, anyone who is involved in creating the catalog as well
<mdke> sorry should have highlighted you when you first came in
<venda> jsgotangco: what is sk?
<jsgotangco> scrollkeeper
<Burgundavia> just joined, breezy and X currently are having issues
<venda> ah
<mdke> Burgundavia, ;)
<mdke> ok so what do you propose we do jsgotangco ?
<venda> hmm, what existing docs are we speaking about
<jsgotangco> that and im in the middle of an Oracle contract, so it kinda got stuck for a while
<judax> gnome docs
<venda> kde docs
<venda> manpages
<venda> debian docs
<jsgotangco> etc. etc.
<venda> personally, not want I want to be doing
<venda> or I would be upstream
<venda> dont mind using upstream
<jsgotangco> indeed IMO its an upstream issue really
<venda> and if can push up
<mdke> its just a question of making upstream docs appear in ubuntu
<venda> but to tackle upstream docs is not want I want to be doing
<mdke> not necessarily changing them or improving them
<mdke> just harnassing them
<venda> mdke: they do already
<mdke> venda, all?
<venda> well in kubuntu they do
<venda> nice kde docs
<mdke> that's cool
<jsgotangco> there's still stuff not included from /usr/share/docs that doesn't appear in sk at all
<judax> aye, but there was a component of using upstream content in our docs 
* venda hugs konqi
<mdke> jsgotangco, yep
<jsgotangco> and there's a mix of xml and html
<jsgotangco> so its not consistent either
<mdke> i suggest we stress jdub for an action plan on this
<mdke> it was his idea after all ;)
<jsgotangco> i guess i would have to shorten my goal on just making a catalog on it for now
<venda> jsgotangco: sk is a borked system
<jsgotangco> venda: very
<venda> jsgotangco: I don't thing one really needs such a dependancy in the docs
<jsgotangco> adds another layer agreed, but that's what we have for now
* venda shuts up before he upsets somebody
<mdke> ok how are we gonna leave this?
<jsgotangco> its still open
<jsgotangco> it won't really go further without a developer's help
<mdke> well the only remaining idea I have is what I've already said: stress jdub for an action plan
<venda> mdke: why are we forking upstream docs
<mdke> venda, we are not
<judax> venda: not forking
<venda> if we dont then we may aswell all move upstream
<jsgotangco> they're not 'forked'
<mdke> venda, the suggestion is simply that we make things in /usr/share/doc appear in yelp. Not changing or forking them, or even moving them
<judax> start looking upstream to see if we can integrate better (by shipping docbook, translating source documentation formats, etc)
<venda> Hmm we do that already
<jsgotangco> judax: right, incidentally not all docs in that folder are in source
* rob^ tries to remember where he saw something like this before
<mdke> well i have no more ideas on this subject
<judax> jsgotangco: ok
<jsgotangco> basically the bulk of work is diving in and looking what is there
<venda> chaps its not our task to make everyone elses docs appear in sk
<venda> the mainters should do that
<mdke> venda, the proposal was whether we are going to make it our task, discussed at the previous meeting
* venda gets the feeling that we are trying to fix all the worlds problems
<jsgotangco> right its a GNOME thing at the moment
<venda> the problem is upstream
<venda> file a bug
<venda> if you want
<jsgotangco> its someting that the whole team should not get involved with imo
<venda> =1
<venda> +1
<jsgotangco> but people are freeto do it anyway
<jsgotangco> thats why im doing it
<venda> can stop them
<mdke> ok let's move on then
<rob^> there is a fair few man pages appering in yelp already
<mdke> yeah some do
* rob^ had a look
<jsgotangco> even fedora and rhel don't even fix this
<jsgotangco> thats why their pages are in html
<mdke> any more items that are Action Required from previous meeting, or can we move onto the next agenda item?
<jsgotangco> anyway, its a totally different story so let's move on
<venda> jah man pages and info are best at the prompt
<mdke> venda, i tend to agree. let's move on
<mdke> ok AGENDA ITEM: "Author updates on DocteamProjects"
<rob^> me me! 
<mdke> shall we go through em one by one?
<jsgotangco> well ok basically let's just have people talk about the status of their work
* rob^ jumps
* judax points to rob
<mdke> rob^, sup
<venda> GO ROB!!!
<rob^> Well, I need to be added to that page :)
<mdke> rob^, you need to add yourself as lead on the projects btw
<mdke> heh
<mdke> syke
<venda> rob^: are you only doing gnome
<rob^> I think the Ubuntu version is comming along and may even be ready for Breezy, but there is very little content for Kubuntu 
<venda> or do you give some kde love
<rob^> venda, yes at this stage
<mdke> is there a kde version of the original ubuntuguide that could be harnassed?
<rob^> yes
<rob^> KUDOS
<mdke> that will help right?
<judax> rob^: kubuntu faq?
<rob^> http://kudos.berlios.de/
<rob^> ubuntuguide, but for kubuntu
<venda> we have permission to port it
<judax> yes, read that last night
<mdke> rob^, any plans for that?
<mdke> venda, rock
<venda> just needs a person to do it
<venda> I started
<rob^> well, I was thinking we could add a lot of stuff from there for the kde profile in the faq
<venda> but too much going on
<jsgotangco> rob^: its can be ported we talked to the original author already and gave permission
<rob^> good
<mdke> rob^, well if you and mgalvin feel you can take it on, that would be supercool
<rob^> I also noticed the licence was compatible too
<venda> rob^: that was the idea
<rob^> I will speak to mgalvin, but I cant see why not
<venda> rob^: the author released it to us under terms of the docteam licenses
* judax thinks rob has the job
<mdke> rock
<mdke> nice one
<rob^> it might not be ready for breezy though
<mdke> rob^, just do what you can :)
<venda> if kfaq is good can package
<rob^> yeah :)
<mdke> ok next project
<mdke> styleguide
<mdke> jeffsch ain't here
<venda> jury duty
<mdke> ubuntu quickguide? jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> well i started on international.xml already
<mdke> venda, really? ;)
<venda> poor bugger
<mdke> i hope he doesn't get like a 6 month case
<jsgotangco> Colony 2 won't run well on my side so i haven'
<jsgotangco> t even started it
<venda> nah back friday
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Thu 14 July 22:00 UTC Documentation Team -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 19 July 14:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 12 July 22:00 UTC: Tech Board -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || This is NOT #ubuntu, or #ubuntu-devel
<mdke> jsgotangco, do you envisage that a lot of work will be needed to update it?
<jsgotangco> mdke: not much really
<mdke> yay
<jsgotangco> mdke: unless the artwork gets changed
<mdke> let's face it... it will
<jsgotangco> its basically review/add/delete work
<mdke> okies
<venda> Riddell: why do we not have Colonies for Kubuntu
<mdke> cool
<mdke> About Ubuntu, squinn
<venda> have not seen him lately
<mdke> no
<mdke> i am slightly concerned about that doc being looked after by him
<mdke> but no doubt we will improvise later on
<Riddell> venda: because Kamion hasn't made any
<Riddell> venda: and I guess now isn't a good time to start, X and all that
<venda> Riddell: is the nightly build working now
<venda> Riddell: we need that x stuff fixed aspa
<Riddell> venda: there are nightly builds (didn't work very well last I tried)
<venda> asap
<venda> yes I know
<mdke> *coughs*
<venda> Riddell: venda = froud
<Riddell> aah :)
<venda> Riddell: it really stands inmy way 
<venda> please resolve that issue
<mdke> daniels is working as fast as he can
<mdke> on topic?
<mdke> ubuntu userguide?
<Riddell> yes, it's daniels
<jsgotangco> arent you the one doing it
<venda> kubuntu quick guide?
<judax> awaiting review, but some things will need to change/added based on breezy decisions, venda has some insight on this
<venda> oh later
<mdke> as I said earlier, the two guys who took charge of the ubuntu userguide haven't yet edited it at all
<mdke> i am slightly concerned about that
* venda does not think docs should have owners
<jsgotangco> well once i get breezy running smoothly i will look into it
<mdke> venda, then you should have spoke up when we decided that two meetings ago :/
<venda> dude, I am already in the dwang for saying what I think
<judax> owners is not a bad thing
<venda> you think me wants more
<judax> but you need people to commit
<mdke> calm voicing of opinion is good
<mdke> anyhow
<mdke> i have been working on the ubuntu userguide quite a bit recently, and it needs a lot of work still
<mdke> i was thinking maybe I would undertake to give it some love
* rob^ is entertaining baby for 5 minutes
<venda> mdke: I see you and xpointer are making friends
<mdke> venda, shall we say we are still sniffing each other's bottoms
* venda passes rob^ a rattle
<rob^> thanx
<venda> mdke: poh
<venda> pooh
<mdke> so what do people think?
* venda is waiting to get to kubuntu
<mdke> would it be reasonable for me to put myself down for ubuntu userguide?
* rob^ is singing "You Just Said Happy Birthday, In Cat"
<judax> why wouldn't it be reasonable?
<venda> mdke: its all you 
<jsgotangco> sure if you can still put time for it
<mdke> okay
<mdke> kubuntu docs?
<mdke> they are rocking afaics
* venda looks up
<venda> kubuntu docs
<venda> yes
<judax> kquickguide is reviewable, but some stuff will need to be changed/added depending on breezy decisions
<mdke> sounds good
<venda> we have all the infrustructure set and working
<jsgotangco> yeah kquickguide is a sure deliver
<judax> froud started some of those things
<venda> we just need people to write
<venda> and we need kubuntu-devel to get  the install working
* venda nudges Riddle
<judax> About Kubuntu is no issue
<venda> its a major blocker for us
<judax> Kynaptic User would have been ready, but it may be worthless now
<mdke> judax, how come?
<mdke> oh i c
<mdke> sorry kynaptic yeah
<judax> mdke: Kynaptic may go away
<venda> we have many not decided issues in devel
<venda> these and the x issues are major problems for us
<mdke> what are we going to do with Release Notes (both K and G)?
<venda> to scared to write to much for fear it will not be like that
<venda> k release notes started
<mdke> cool
<rob^> venda, I can relate
<mdke> i guess its hard to do much on release notes until a later stage?
<jsgotangco> right
<venda> Riddell: pls those issues, pls solve them fast
<mdke> venda, you've made your point
<venda> obviously not
<mdke> venda, i'm sure they do their best
<venda> we need answers
<venda> not wil do best
<venda> dates 
<mdke> venda, docs are not their only consideration
<venda> milestones
<mdke> ok we have dates
<venda> docs are my only consideration
<jsgotangco> OT
<venda> my task to bat for them
<venda> mdke: you have dates
<mdke> we have feature freeze on aug 11
<venda> but we have no working system
<judax> k docs will rock 5.10, worries not
<venda> longer no working system, closer date comes, less can do
<mdke> judax, agreed
<jsgotangco> whip 'em on #ubuntu-devel why dont you
<mdke> venda, ok well you can continue that discussion outside this forum
<jsgotangco> instead of doing it our meeting
<mdke> cool
<mdke> jsgotangco, ++
<mdke> next agenda item?
<venda> jsgotangco: its a doc problem no?
<jsgotangco> there's no point on feeling helpless at the moment and we're not the only one affected
<judax> Wiki Team update?
<venda> jsgotangco: how do you write docs with no gui
<mdke> venda, enough now man
<jsgotangco> venda: whine to daniels like what everybody else does
<mdke> its a good point, this is not the place
<mdke> wiki team update: thanks to robitaille we have fixed the broken icons on the wiki. current main initiative is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation which we are trying to give a structure to allow wiki docs to become more accessible
<venda> night all wiki is not for me
<mdke> IMHO it is already starting to rock
<mdke> venda, there are more items after this one
<judax> venda: night
<venda> mdke: wiki, back ports and gnome not for me
<mdke> that's about all i can think of on wikiteam
<mdke> venda, ok night then
<venda> chow
<jsgotangco> let him be obviously he's only interested in specific things that only interest him instead of the whole team
<mdke> ok let's carry on
<mdke> gnome user guide... this is an awesome problem
<rob^> hey
<jsgotangco> hmm
<rob^> just in time mgalvin 
<mdke> hey mgalvin 
<jsgotangco> you mean the 2.6 doc in yelp?
<mgalvin> :) did i miss all of it
<rob^> yea
<mdke> i can introduce the gnome user guide problem quickly
<rob^> almost
<jsgotangco> mdke: break a leg
<jsgotangco> as you were saying?
<mdke> basically, there is a gnome user guide. It is nice, but WELL out of date. We have three ideas that have been suggested: 1. make a vendor drop and use bits of it in our ubuntu userguide by xincluding (froud's idea). 2. copy and paste interesting bits (preferred by me). 3. take it and update it and rewrite it as the Ubuntu user guide (suggested by jeffsch)
* mdke puffs
<jsgotangco> why complicate something with #1 when its easier for you to do #2 and #3
<mdke> the second solution is the most selfish, because it precludes sending improvements upstream
<mdke> but it is the easiest in terms of effort
<judax> 1 is cool and all, but it seems 1 works best if the content you want to bring in is current
<jsgotangco> right
<mdke> btw you can see it here: http://www.gnome.org/learn/
<judax> I like 3, followed by 1 when needed if upstream updates
<mdke> judax, with 1 we could still update the vendor drop and send it back to gnome cvs
<judax> mdke: but doesn't that fly in the face of the leave upstream alone discussion we just had?
<jsgotangco> question: is #1 doable to people here at the moment
<mdke> judax, i don't think so. It would just be a helpful thing to do
<mdke> my personal view is that we don't have the time for 1 or 3
<mdke> but jeffsch may commit some time, in which case they might become doable
<jsgotangco> you can make it a long term goal though
<mdke> also mpt was looking at it...
<judax> 3 could be a good base
<judax> to start from
<mdke> jsgotangco, the problem is if we go for 3 and don't have it ready for breezy, there will be no userguide for breezy
<judax> isn't 3 actually a merge of current Ugug and gug?
<jsgotangco> then go to the easiest route to be able to ship for breezy and make a long term goal for post breezy breezy+1
<mdke> judax, yes
<mdke> jsgotangco, that is what I would also say
<mdke> 3 isn't a lot different from 1 really...
<mdke> except you end up helping upstream more with 1
<mdke> but helping upstream can also be done by joining the gnome documentation team
<mdke> ;)
<jsgotangco> after breezy everyone will have enough time to harness it considering we have a longer schedule ahead 
<judax> there is about 1 msg a week on that list
<mdke> judax, quite
<mdke> ok i would be tempted to plump for solution 2, better solution to be found for breezy +1
<mdke> unless we get a mass of activity on it from new people
<judax> mdke: I agree with mdke and jsgotangco, need to concentrate on what can be shipped and plan to help upstream when our house is in order
<mdke> any other views?
<mgalvin> i think i like 3, and hope to have more time to help attain that goal
<mdke> with 3, is there a chance to poke it back upstream without Ubuntu specific changes?
<mdke> i.e. what are the advantages of 3 over 1?
<judax> they are all a means to the same end I think
<mgalvin> well, i would still like to push things upstream if we can
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> i actually tend to prefer 1
<mgalvin> while not making it more complicated than it needs to be
<mgalvin> but i am not agaist 1
<judax> Ugug has to get done and we should push upstream when we are able and have the time and plan to do so
<mdke> basically, xinclude the whole (updated) guide, then write customisations for Ubuntu
<mdke> yeah I am kinda already just thinking about this on a breezy+1 level
* judax will now shut the hell up
<mdke> updating the gnome guide is already a huge job
<mdke> ok let's move on
<jsgotangco> well its upstream work again
<mdke> [backports for breezy] 
<rob^> ok
<rob^> What I wanted to say was, as I mentioned on the mailing list, I've been told that backports are to become official, but unsupported. I doubt some packages such as w32codecs/libdvdcss2 will make it either.
<rob^> what is the best way of telling people they need to install packages such as libdvdcss2 and w32codecs? People want to view movies and dvds using Ubuntu, not mentioning this at all will cause things like ubuntuguide.org to spring up all over again. But then theres the problem of leaving us open to legal problems by telling people how to do this, not to mention Canonical probably wont want us to do this either. How do we proceed?
<Burgundavia> the patent only stuff may make it
<Burgundavia> w32codecs will not
<mdke> my view on this issue is that we wait and see
* judax listens to MP3 as we speak
<mdke> it will almost certainly be discussed at the CC meeting next week
* jsgotangco grabs a pirated copy of Fantastic 4
* mgalvin is watching dvd
<Burgundavia> what is clear is libdvdcss2 and w32codecs are 2 seperate kettles of fish
<judax> jsgotangco: gimmie
<mdke> legally speaking yeah
<Burgundavia> the patent-infringing only stuff we can probably talk about
<Burgundavia> w32codecs is theft
<rob^> well I will hold of writing anything until a firm decision is made
<jsgotangco> mdke: you're the barrister, what is your opinion
<judax> I never advocated telling people how to break laws, just that we shouldn't put our fingers in our ears either
<mdke> jsgotangco, my hunch is that we shouldn't refer people to packages that might be legally dodgy. However we can refer em to RestrictedFormats and we DEFINITELY should tell them about the various repositories that exist
<mdke> including official backports
<mdke> but IMHO it is too early to tell
<rob^> mdke, yeah, thats my problem
<mdke> i am fairly sure that Canonical will not agree to put w32codecs and other dodgy stuff in any official hoary-extras repo on the Canonical servers
<jsgotangco> why not just make a generic doc and have it point to a wiki entry that constantly changes to reflect what is the consesus on those formats
<judax> it is also responsible to say: hey, we know this doesn't work and there is a reason it doesn't work, it is not that we just forgot about it
<mdke> so we have to wait and see IMO
<jsgotangco> what way you can still ship that doucment
<jsgotangco> instead of aiming to include it in shipped book
<mdke> in terms of stuff which is supported by multiverse, I am in favour of telling people about the stuff (gstreamer plugins etc) but ensuring that they know their legal responsibility
<mdke> the passage about multiverse in the kde userguide is quite good on that iMO
<rob^> mdke, I will take a look
<jsgotangco> i can ask sibs on it anytime we exchange emails lately on other issues
<mdke> oooh
<mdke> other issues eh
<jsgotangco> non-docteam issues heh
<mdke> o.o
<rob^> I point them to restrictedformats (as I have already done) at this stage then
<jsgotangco> rob^: safest path at the moment imo
<mdke> rob^, in the userguide I've told people how to install mp3 support from multiverse, but avoided dvds and w32codecs so far
<rob^> ok
<mdke> in fact I've avoided backports entirely, but will write in support when it is clear what is going on with them
<jsgotangco> im going to compare again
<jsgotangco> Fedora doesn't even delve on this
<rob^> yes
<rob^> they dont
* jsgotangco starts watching an asf file
<mdke> well then, their users don't get essential info
<mdke> but anyhow, IMO we need to wait and see on this question
<rob^> its a pain in the butt quite frankly, but I agree we will need to wait and see
<jsgotangco> better if i ask silbs now
<jsgotangco> so that we'll get a reply later
<mdke> jsgotangco, the thing is, the status of backports has not yet been confirmed, it will be discussed at CC this week and we can discuss the legal issues
<jsgotangco> oh ok
<mdke> in the end, I believe Canonical will go and get an answer from their lawyers...
<jsgotangco> TurboLinux is the only distro I know that ships these stuff legally
<rob^> jsgotangco, how?
<jsgotangco> other than that, all are dodgy implementations
<rob^> w32codecs?
<judax> Linspire does
<jsgotangco> rob^: they licensed from MS and got PowerDVD
<mdke> they probably pay for them or something
<judax> mdke: yes they do
<rob^> jsgotangco, I wonder if ubuntu has that sought of money?
* mdke shakes his head in disgust
<rob^> probably not..
<jsgotangco> mdke: disgust on turbolinux?
<mdke> rob^, they have it, but it would be against policy to do that stuff...
<mdke> general disgust
<Mez> what? at me entering the channel?
<judax> it is disgusting, all of it is BS
<jsgotangco> lol
<rob^> mdke, yeah, your right but it would help a lot of people :)
<mdke> hehe
<mdke> ok topic closed?
<rob^> yeah
<jsgotangco> just to close then
<mdke> any more business?
<jsgotangco> TurboLinux sells their distro for $70 with a legal codec 
<judax> I am going on 2-week holiday :)
* mdke sacks judax 
<rob^> jsgotangco, ah
* judax giggles
<jsgotangco> well
<jsgotangco> ok what did we accomplish so far
<judax> started slow, but a good meeting nonetheless, imho
<mdke> me too
<jsgotangco> well yeah although 22:00UTC meetings are murder for me
<judax> jsgotangco: 2200UTC in Canada is not bad :)
<rob^> 8am here
<jsgotangco> 6am on my place!!! w00t but not so bad i guess
<judax> 630pm here and into 3 frosty
<jsgotangco> ok so next meeting we go back to 14:00UTC
<jsgotangco> on the 28th
<judax> s/3/3rd
<jsgotangco> we revolve between 14:00 and 22:00
<jsgotangco> that cool with you all
<mgalvin> what about 2300UTC
<mgalvin> obviously 2200 is tuff for me
<judax> mgalvin: wru located?
<jsgotangco> what time would that be on your side ?
<mdke> i can do 14 and 22
<rob^> 1400z is 2am here
<jsgotangco> yay
<mgalvin> new york, us
<judax> mgalvin: ah, commute time?
<mgalvin> 6pm, work commut time
<mgalvin> yup, u got it!
<jsgotangco> well we can adjust accordingly, mdke is the only euro i know on this team atm
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> ;-P
<judax> I work from home so usually not an issue for me
<mgalvin> lucky you
<jsgotangco> mgalvin: we'll adjust the agenda for you just in case
<judax> aye
<jsgotangco> but generally, 14 and 22 is quite acceptable to most people here (except those in AU and NZ on 14UTC)
<rob^> hehe yeah like me
<rob^> 22 is ok though, 8am
<jsgotangco> its only our 2nd regular meeting anyways so we'll adjust accordingly
<jsgotangco> what's important is that we're beginning to have this regularly
<rob^> I'm in kilo time
<jsgotangco> alright so anything else?
<mdke> jsgotangco, ++
<jsgotangco> anyone wants to discuss aything else
<mgalvin> i can sometimes make it home in time, so if its just me don't worry to much about it, i will just try to let you guys know when i can't
<mgalvin> do we know svn commit access status?
<rob^> no
<Burgundavia> need to contact elmo, whom I haven't seen in irc for ages
<mdke> yeah he's at debconf
<mdke> we discussed at the beginning of the meeting
<mdke> not a lot mroe we can do
* judax wonders again why we wouldn't utilize linode for svn
<rob^> how come one of us doesnt have that access on svn anyway..
<Burgundavia> the plan if for us to switch to bazaar for breezy+1
<mdke> rob^, the svn server is in the Ubuntu server farm, only elmo has access
<rob^> yeah I know, why is he the only one though?
<mdke> because he is careful
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, where is pda testing going?
<mdke> even henrik doesn't have access to the wiki
<rob^> yeah :P
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: i asked mdz about it yesterday but no reply yet
<jsgotangco> as for svn access, if the team opts to keep svn when everything is already in Baz, we may have to administer our own svn
<jsgotangco> anyways, ok till next meeting then, 14:00UTC July 28
* mgalvin goes to read meeting log
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Thu 14 July 22:00 UTC Documentation Team -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 19 July 14:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 16 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || This is NOT #ubuntu, or #ubuntu-devel
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Thu 14 July 22:00 UTC Documentation Team -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 19 July 14:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || This is NOT #ubuntu, or #ubuntu-devel
<robitaille> because Tuesday 16 July didn't exist... 
<Treenaks> robitaille: maybe not this year... :)
<robitaille> the next Tuesday July 16 is in 2013.  Quite a long time between Tech Board meetings.
<Treenaks> well, there's the 5-year support for 6.04 8)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 19 July 14:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu July 28 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || This is NOT #ubuntu, or #ubuntu-devel
<robitaille> added date of next Doc Team meeting in 2 weeks.
* terrex is back (gone 00:56:06)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Mez] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 19 July 14:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu July 28 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Fri July 22 20:00 UTC New User Network -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Mez] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 19 July 14:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu July 28 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Fri July 22 20:00 UTC New User Network -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Mez] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 19 July 14:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu July 28 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Fri July 22 20:00 UTC NUN -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-23
<pef> hello
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 19 July 14:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Fri July 22 20:00 UTC NUN -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || Tue 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu July 28 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-07-24
* #ubuntu-meeting  [freenode-info]  help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<NTFS_> Virtuall :)
<Virtuall> FS :)
<Ubuntunec> :)
<Virtuall> lol
<Ubuntunec> nado nik pridumatj
<Ubuntunec> Admin_
<Ubuntunec> :)
<Admin_> :)
<Admin_> hi all
<Ubuntunec> zdarovo
<Ubuntunec> :D
<Ubuntunec> FiSdjuk
<Admin_> daroff , daroff
<Admin_> but in this channel we need to talk in English
<Admin_> :)
<Ubuntunec> yeap
<Ubuntunec> i know
<Admin_> cuz i think that not all people in this channel understand our Crazy Russian
<Admin_> :)
<Ubuntunec> Crazy Latvians who speak russian
<Admin_> :)
<Admin_> i'm Russian in LV
<Admin_> :)))
<Ubuntunec> its not interesent for other peoples
<Ubuntunec> i think
<Ubuntunec> :)
<Ubuntutus> :)
<Admin_> yeap
<Admin_> but for other people *
<Virtuall> when the meeting starts, will there be _m or what? (never was on any)
<Nafallo> Virtuall: nope :-)
<Nafallo> Virtuall: we just hope that everyone plays by the rules in those _open_ meetings :-)
<Admin_> :))
<Admin_> Democracy ...
<Admin_> :)
<FSystem> emm....
<Virtuall> :)
<Nafallo> and most of all: Ubuntu :-)
<Admin_> :)
<Admin_> ubuntu rlz
<Admin_> :
<Admin_> :)
<Admin_> i'm on it now
<FSystem> hehe.....
<Admin_> :)
<FSystem> Admin_ translate plz
<Admin_> :)
<Virtuall> ubuntu here, ubuntu there, ubuntu everywhere :)
<Admin_> Virtuall i , we have UTC +2 ?
<Admin_> are *
<Nafallo> but anyways. 3h12m till the meeting ;-). I should see what my gf wanted. bbl
<Nafallo> Admin_: topic... date -u :-)
<Virtuall> +3
<Virtuall> :)
<Admin_> :)
<Nafallo> hi mako! :-)
<mako> hey there
<Nafallo> mako: got time to tell me if anything more is needed on my wiki-page? :-)
<comadreja> hello mako...
<comadreja> nice to meet you
<mako> i might.. we have a few hours.. i'm a bit stressed out trying to get caught up on email and such
<Nafallo> mako: no rush. ogra already approved it. you might wait to approve it "in meeting" ;-)
* mako nods
<mako> ogra and i rarely disagree
<ogra> :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<mako> at least in this regard
<comadreja> hey ogra
<ogra> hey
<Nafallo> morning ogra :-)
<comadreja> could you check mine too ?
<ogra> comadreja, what should i check... i know your work ;) no need for that ;)
<comadreja> oh, thanks. Do you think a link to my resume could be useful ?
<comadreja> or is that too much ?
<ogra> on the agenda ? 
<ogra> do it !
<comadreja> oh, nopes, on my wiki page
<comadreja> cool
<ogra> i think the wikipage and the work you did so far are enough for membership...
<Admin_> hi mako
<kolcvk> :)
<comadreja> awesome, that makes me happy
<kolcvk> mako : Virtuall & me have founded an Ubuntu LV Team
<mako> hey
<mako> kolcvk: cool
<mako> kolcvk: that sounds really great! :)
<mako> kolcvk: do you guys have a site or anything written up ?
<Virtuall> we... almost have a site :)
<mako> Virtuall: :)
<Virtuall> we're currently having some little problems with our server, so we can't show it. bu it's blank anyway :)
<Virtuall> ...maybe i'm too stupid, but don't get it how to use rosetta. it says  Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page. ??? :( where do I get such a permission?
<mdke> Virtuall, the pages are down right now
<Virtuall> ok...
<ogra> Virtuall, but initially you should have a launchpad account anyway
<ogra> s/initially/for a start
<Virtuall> I do
<mdke> yeah he will have one
<ogra> :)
<mdke> otherwise it would tell him to login :)
<Virtuall>  Logged in as Danko Alexeyev  
<ogra> true
<kolcvk> http://off.lv/ubuntu-linux
<kolcvk> its not really done yet
<kolcvk> but i think in 24h we can make it
<kolcvk> my net lags ...
<Virtuall> it does :(
<kolcvk> yeap
<kolcvk> but not so terrible as it were
<kolcvk> right now its little bit faster
<Virtuall> bad day bad day :(((
<kolcvk> yeap
<Seveas> 1:38 and counting...
<kolcvk> 1:37
<Virtuall> 1:36
<kolcvk> Seveas hi (c) Admin_
<Seveas> lol :)
<Seveas> hi
<kolcvk> Virt lets just show ETA every 15 mins ok ?
<Virtuall> damnit... deleted whole off.lv free dns db by specifying wrong WHERE :((( like losing all the source wasn't enough
<Virtuall> why I always think of doing backup when it;'s too late?
<kolcvk> :)))
<slomo> Virtuall: because backups are only needed when it's too late? ;)
<Nafallo> Virtuall: cause you're not running backuppc anywhere? ;-)
<Virtuall> :(
<Mez> poop
<Amaranth> naughty
<Amaranth> this'll be the first meeting i make it to since i got accepted as a member (missed that one too)
<Mez> lol
<Mez> I noticed
<Mez> I forgot the meeting was today
<Mez> heheh :D
* Mez has to attend seeing as John cant
<Amaranth> you've been replaced with a shell script, how do you feel? :)
* JanC has to start working at 16h00 CEST, which equals 14h00 UTC...   :)
<Amaranth> nice
<Mez> Amaranth, the shell script hasnt even been run yet
<Mez> still wiaintg on elmo
* Mez cwies
<Mez> Hey JRe, hows Katapult coming along/
<Amaranth> Mez: we still have an hour
<mdke> so impatient you guys :)
<REBELinBLUE> hey Mez
<Amaranth> nah, that's not impatient, this is:
<Amaranth> START THE DAMN MEETING BEFORE I FALL ASLEEP
<Amaranth> ;)
<Amaranth> brb
<ogra> Amaranth, get some coffee, its anyway to warm to sleep for you
<Amaranth> too warm?
<Mez> Amaranth, it's in an hour
<Amaranth> Mez: That's what I said. :P
<ogra> Amaranth, didnt you speak about 39C ?
<seth_k> hiya Stephen, guess IPFM got killed eh
<REBELinBLUE> that it did seth
<REBELinBLUE> :(
<Amaranth> ogra: That's this weekend, it's on 20C right now.
<Mez> oh, hey seth_k didnt see you hiding there
<ogra> ahh
<seth_k> so release it under GPL :D
<REBELinBLUE> thinking about it
<seth_k> i wubbles you
<REBELinBLUE> need to go through and check for IPS code first
<seth_k> I see
<Amaranth> brb, rebooting
<seth_k> mako, are you up and about yet?
<JRe> hey Mez 
<Mez> seth, he's around... been idle 3 mins
<JRe> Mez: Katapult is under heavy inspection ;)
<seth_k> hence the ping Mez...
<mako> seth_k: yes
<seth_k> mako, was needing to talk to you about my signed CoC. I sent you an e-mail a week ago but I'm sure the universe exploded in your inbox due to debconf ;)
<Amaranth> ok, now for morrowind
<Amaranth> ping me if i'm not here for the meeting
<ogra> seth_k, if universe explodes thats a bug, contact the MOTU ;)
<Mez> ogra: exactly what I thought
<seth_k> ogra: well played
<Mez> Amaranth, it wouldnt be the first time you've misse a meeting though (come on - you missed yourself beomcing a member)
<Mez> but ogra: I thought it was too cheesy to say 
<Amaranth> grr
<ogra> Mez, yes, i'm a cheesy guy :)
<Mez> but be proud Amaranth you're the only person who got passed as being a memebr without being there
<Mez> ogra: so am i usually - but that's just ... overkill
<mako> seth_k: that's basically correct
<Amaranth> i know, stop saying my name please
<mako> seth_k: i haven't looked at every message i've recieved over the last week
<mako> seth_k: and i haven't processed any coc's
<ogra> Amaranth, you mean Amaranth 
<ogra> ?
* Mez laughs at amaranth
<mako> seth_k: i'll get to it after the meeting
<ogra> (to be a bit more cheesy
* Treenaks wonders why Amaranth would want that
<seth_k> I understand, mako. Just had some questions about mine since I think I'm a special case... key not signed into the strong set etc.
<Amaranth> if i have to close this window i'll miss another meeting
<seth_k> but thanks
* ogra wonders why Amaranth picvked this name if he doesnt like it :)
<mako> seth_k: hmm.. ok. why not?
<Amaranth> ignored, see you in an hour
<mdke> he's the only guy who wants to get some work done :)
<mdke> good old Amaran_th
<ogra> seth_k, you can let it sign by a notary and fax it
<REBELinBLUE> hey mdke, thanks for the info you gave Mez 
<mdke> or just sign it yourself
<seth_k> ogra, that's what I needed info from mako about, using a notary as a proxy
<seth_k> mako, I'm in the middle of the desert with no one to sign it for I think 300 miles around... crimsun was going to see about driving through but I think I'm gonna need to do the notary
<mdke> seth_k, just sign it by hand and send it by fax
<ogra> mdke how should mako know its the right signature ?
<seth_k> indeed, that's why I wanted to talk to mako and get info if a notary was needed, if that was good enough proof for a keysigning too, etc.
<seth_k> but he said he'd answer my e-mail and all the questions are in there
<mdke> ogra, i don't know. In my case I included a photocopy of some ID, but I wasn't asked to, so I assume it isn't necessary
<seth_k> btw that part of the wiki needs to be updated and expanded, once I finish running the gauntlet I'll have to do that ;)
<mdke> which part of the wiki?
<mdke> i'll take a look if you like
<mako> seth_k: which desert?
<seth_k> ah, it's not actually on the wiki, it's http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember -- it's unclear that your key needs to be in the strong set for a GPG signature to be sufficient, and it's unclear that you need a notary to physically sign
<mdke> ah
<seth_k> mako: Oklahoma :P not quite a desert, but as flat and dry as one
<mako> seth_k: alright
<kolcvk> :)
<mdke> afaik you don't need a notary to physically sign the CoC
<mako> seth_k:  are you looking for maintainership?
<seth_k> mako: no, I was accepted as a Member at the last meeting, am just looking to finalize that
<mako> seth_k: oh, then no signed key is required
<seth_k> maintainership, somewhere down the road... but not now
<mako> seth_k: well, we can cross that bridge when we come to it them
<mako> no problem
<seth_k> the voice of truth speaks from the dozens of conflicting opinions I've been getting :P thanks mako
<mako> so i've been very bad and haven't written up the new meeting minutes yet..
<mako> seth_k: there has been some confusion
<mako> can people verify that everyone approved last time is *not* on the agenda again? :)
<mako> the rest of the agenda looks right to me
<seth_k> none of those 5 names were on the agenda last time, iirc
<Mez> evening sistpoty :D
<sistpoty> hi Mez 
<seth_k> you people and your evening
* seth_k got up early to be here, it's not 9:00 am yet here
<Mez> lol
<Mez> Tue Jul 19 14:26:43 BST 2005
<kolcvk> 20 mins remaining
<Mez> kolcvk, we can all tell time :D :P
<kolcvk> :))
<Mez> well, at least some of us, last TB meeting everyone thought they were late
<Mez> but they were early
<kolcvk> :)
<pef> hello
<kolcvk> hi pef
<seth_k> hiya pef
<JRe> hey pef  ;)
<pef> :)
<JRe> pef: got your fridge full now ;) ?
<pef> JRe: nearly ;)
* \sh is a fool
<ogra> \sh, no need to say this, we all know it
<ogra> :)
<siretart> lol
<seth_k> but we love him anyways ogra?
<ogra> sue
<ogra> sure
* comadreja loves \sh
<\sh> *blush* 
<ogra> breezy wouldnt be what it is without \sh ...
<siretart> absolutly
<\sh> yes..I should apply for xorg ,-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ogra> hmm regarding that breezy is a mess i probably should reconsider this sentence....
<seth_k> REBELinBLUE, are you just here lurking or are you interested in one of the agenda items?
<Mez> he's lurking
<seth_k> go work on IPFM :P
<REBELinBLUE> mez said to come :p
<seth_k> haha
<REBELinBLUE> can't work on IPFM, I'm at work :p
<ogra> what is IPFM ?
<\sh> ogra: I'm not at fault...I'm not ,-)
<ogra> hehe
<seth_k> Invision Power File Manager... except it's not Invision Power anymore...
<\sh> invisible power file manager?
<seth_k> LOL
<Mez> ooh, you're going to need a new name stephen
<ogra> so it manages files for powermanagement ? 
* ogra wonders which files that might be
<\sh> Mez: why? 
<Treenaks> ogra: no, power files
<Treenaks> ogra: ;)
<ogra> Treenaks, where is the difference ?
<Mez> \sh - I was referring to REBELinBLUE 
<Treenaks> ogra: yes, power files contain power.. so if you have a lot on your hd, your battery will last longer
<\sh> Mez: jesus.../me is written with a before the n
* |rockinnerd| is lurking
<seth_k> Treenaks, whoa! that beats the snot out of power cells!
<ogra> Treenaks, hmm, and if i collect enough of them i have the power to become a dictator ? 
<\sh> ogra: sabdfl?
<Treenaks> ogra: not again
<ogra> heh
<mdke> ogra, now you're collecting power cells as well as apprentices? we're in trouble
* seth_k volunteers to be an apprentice... or a power cell...
<\sh> I think ogra is mario..
<ogra> mdke, i dont ave this thingie called IPFM
<\sh> jump jump *ping* after 100 powercells a free life
<mdke> ;) @ \sh 
<ogra> mdke, i was just spculating how it works ;)
<\sh> ok...max. 15 UTC...i have to leave the office until then *eg*
<Mez> ogra, it's a web based file manager :D which is really good (as long as you remember to chmod things if you upload from the web adn want to play with tehm in FPT
<Mez> (or run phpsuid)
* ogra prefers nautilus with sftp :)
<Mez> ogra: but IPFM = great if you're like - on another comp or something
<Mez> and I prefer konq with fish :D
<seth_k> fish is overkill if you have a decent server
<seth_k> konq + sftp
<seth_k> mmm
<nalioth> fish isnt a terminal emulator?
<Mez> fish = ssh
<nalioth> sorry, another shell?
<Amaranth> i made it!
* Amaranth dances
<Mez> Amaranth, you made what ?
<Mez> (other than smeg)
<Amaranth> the meeting
<nalioth> hmm, i run fish(shell) not ssh
<Amaranth> i managed to squeeze in 3 killings beforehand too
<mdke> Amaran_th, the meeting is finished already!
<Mez> fish:/sourcegu@sourceguru.net :D
<Virtuall> ?
* Amaranth cries
<bddebian> Hello folks
<Amaranth> guys, you can leave
<kbrooks> ok
<Amaranth> the meeting is over
<Amaranth> :P
<mdke> ;)
<Virtuall> hope it was a joke?
<kbrooks> mdke: i'm going to be watching
<mdke> kbrooks, sup?
* ed1t pokes nalioth
<Amaranth> oh, i'm supposed to, like, take part in these meeting now, aren't i?
<kbrooks> here's my wiki page: wiki.ubuntu.com/KyleBrooks
<Amaranth> i mean, i did anyway before, but yea
<Amaranth> err, yeah
<Mez> Amaranth, not really - you just have a vote on new CC members
<kbrooks> anyone can comment on it in a PM
<kbrooks> or in #ubuntu
<bddebian> brb, grabbing coffee
<ogra> Virtuall, mako opens and closes the meeting, dont worry ;)
<Mez> kbrooks, are you trying today for membership?
<kbrooks> anyway, as said before, ill be watching
* |rockinnerd| is watching the meeting
<kbrooks> Mez: no, and I don't want to yet
<Nafallo> ogra, tseng: you're testimonial persons for me? :-)
* ed1t sits next to kbrooks
<ed1t> and watches*
<ogra> Nafallo, sure
<tseng> Nafallo: no you suck
<ogra> hehe
<Nafallo> tseng: hehe ;-)
<tseng> Nafallo: ill be giving you a thumbs down
<nalioth> ed1t: kbrooks" y'all dont fight over the popcorn
<seth_k> holy crap kbrooks you killed the Java page!
* comadreja pays attention
<Amaranth> oh, my clock is actually on UTC right now
<ed1t> its already mine!
<Amaranth> hehe, i was trying to convert
<tseng> Nafallo: yes, if i can be here
* |rockinnerd| sits at the watching table, with a bullet-proof vest on
<mdke> kbrooks, i like the Java page, nice one
<tseng> if not someone can give you a sterling recommendation in my place
<kbrooks> seth_k: i killed the methods and left only the legal method
<mako> alright
<nalioth> |rockinnerd|: no nomex suit?
<Nafallo> tseng: :-)
<mako> Tue Jul 19 14:00:36 UTC 2005   UTC-0
<\sh> wow
<kbrooks> mako: you might want to look at my wiki page.
<\sh> this guy appears just in time
<seth_k> kbrooks, you killed the link to JavaPackageBuildNewVersions , which has detailed instructions
* kbrooks sits and shuts up
<Amaranth> shh!
<Seveas> dinf-dong
<Seveas> meeting time :)
* Mez sets mode +m on #ubuntu-meeting
<Virtuall> :)
<|rockinnerd|> <soft laugh>
<mako> kbrooks: what am i supposed to be seeing
<mako> Kamion: around?
<Seveas> Everybody please state your name for the record and to start the meeting :)
<mako> let me find the rest of the CC
<kbrooks> Kyle Brooks
<Seveas> mako, good point :)
* smurfix == Matthias Urlichs
<|rockinnerd|> Christopher L. Cmolik
<kolcvk> Konstantin Kolcov
* seth_k is Seth Kinast
<comadreja> Jorge Daza
* Seveas Dennis Kaarsemaker
<sistpoty> Stefan Potyra
* Virtuall == Danko Alexeyev
<mdke> Matthew East
* Mez == Martin Meredith
* \sh == Stephan Hermann
* slomo == Sebastian Drge
<Amaranth> Travis Watkins
<nalioth> me is Marek Spruell
<mako> Seveas: thanks
* mako is benjamin mako hill
<tseng> Brandon Hale.
* JRe == Jean-Remy Falleri
* Nafallo == Christian Nafallo Bjlevik ;-)
* ogra is Oliver Grawert
* tritium is Michael Rimbert
* Mez slaps Kamion and sabdfl
<mako> we're still 3/4 members down
* siretart is Reinhard Tartler
<kinjoo> Josh Kress
* Seveas just completed a d-i only cluster install system, me is happy </offtopic>
<ed1t> BSOD
<ed1t> sorry im on windows heh
* Riddell Jonathan Riddell
<Mez> well we gotta wait for the others anyways
<ogra> yep
<kbrooks> yup
* Mez sits back and grabs a coke
* pef is Loic Pefferkorn
* kolcvk drinks Coffee
* ed1t grabs his coke from mez
<kbrooks> Mez: movie style, ehu?
<kbrooks> eh*
* Amaranth drinks Mt. Dew
<Amaranth> </off-topic>
<Mez> kbrooks: popcorn :D
<Nafallo> hmm, to late to make popcorn now? ;-)
* ed1t already go his popcorn
<\sh> I could try to upgrade to breezy again?
<ogra> hey silbs 
* kbrooks steals all the drinks and drinks them all
* |rockinnerd| heats up my coffee
<mdke> morning jsgotangco 
<seth_k> \sh you don't want to make it Xorg 6, sh 0...
<smurfix> \sh: after the meeting please
<jsgotangco> hello
<Seveas> Final agenda for today (if the CC shows up) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<|rockinnerd|> s/my/his
<jsgotangco> just started?
<mdke> jsgotangco, not yet
<\sh> smurfix: no not anymore...until I see the light
<mako> so sabdfl should be able to make it.. elmo should not be too far away either
<Mez> jsgotangco, we're waiting for the "Council"
<Mez> mako, and Kamion ?
<jsgotangco> ohhh
<mako> kamion has been idle for the last few hours
<Amaranth> If they don't show up I say we smack them around awhile. :)
<Seveas> everybody who wants to become a member: please prepare a short description of what you did for Ubuntu so far, what you are planning to do and your ideas and visions for Ubuntu
<jsgotangco> how about we do a coup
<mdke> elmo mentioned he would come
<mako> at the moment, i'm the only one here
<mako> yes, elmo should be here
<Mez> mako, elmo and kamion have been idle for the same amount of time
<ogra> he isnt
<comadreja>  Seveas: in the wiki ?
<Alessio> hi allz
<Seveas> comadreja, no
<Mez> (near enough)
<nalioth> comadreja: no for here
<Seveas> comadreja, in a text editor, so that you can paste it in here leter :)
<jani> how do members approved before hoary get accepted into launchpad?
<jsgotangco> mako: where are you now in this world?
<comadreja> ok...
<Amaranth> they ask? :)
<Mez> jani, you poke mako after the meeting
<Seveas> jani, the members get approved in here
<Mez> Seveas, already approved members, before the launchpad group was made
<ogra> Seveas, jani already is approved iirc
<Seveas> Mez, yeah, then poke mako :)
<jani> I am listed as proposed member in launchpad, but I dunno who accepts us
* Mez points at mako
<jsgotangco> jani: sabdfl, mako, etc. in CC
* bddebian wakes up <-- Barry deFreese
<Seveas> jsgotangco, afaik only mako does launchpad businesses
<jani> ok thanks, I did not know it was poking drivern, I thaught launchpad was all automatic :)
* kbrooks types fast 
<mako> jsgotangco: i'm in the netherlands today
<mako> Seveas: i should drop by :)
<Seveas> mako, cool :)
<mako> Seveas: i'm in eindhoven
<Seveas> mako, I'm in Amsterdam now
<kbrooks> i'm in canada
<Amaranth> US :/
<kolcvk> LV
<Alessio> mako :)
<Alessio> in europe?
<Alessio> great
<Amaranth> kbrooks: got a couch? :)
<jsgotangco> nice
<silbs> mako: elmo is on his way
<|rockinnerd|> Us
<kbrooks> Amaranth: yes. behind me. sit on it
<jsgotangco> silbs: did you get the PDF to print btw?
<|rockinnerd|> US sry
<bddebian> US, PA
<|rockinnerd|> US, OH, sewers of cleveland
<bddebian> heh
<silbs> jsgotangco: no, not yet. But I haven't really looked into it any further
<ed1t> bddebian where in PA?
<Amaranth> sewer city, iowa :D
<mako> silbs: great :)
<kolcvk> LV , Riga
<bddebian> ed1t: Right next the the Philly airport right now (at work) but live in Schwenksville
<ed1t> oo
* ed1t is from NJ
<bddebian> Cool
<Amaranth> ok, we don't need to know anymore :)
* Amaranth curses memes
<ed1t> my roommate from college lives in PA
<ed1t> richboro, PA
<bddebian> Ah
<ed1t> brb
<bddebian> We need the East Coast LoCo ;-)
<ed1t> lol
<Seveas> bddebian, found one 
<Seveas> :)
<jani> mako do I poke you now or after the meeting re 'proposed members' on launchpad.Also about the fact that I sent a paper GPG fingerprint so that field could be filled in launchpad as well
<Virtuall> do we start... today?
<mdke> hey hno73 
<bddebian> Seveas: I have been thinking about it
<Seveas> Virtuall, as soon as sabdfl/elmo/kamion arrive
<hno73> mdke: hi :)
<kolcvk> Virt , we need to wait others
<ogra> Virtuall, if the people tat can approve anything are here
<tseng> bddebian: philly loco.
<mako> jani: i haven't done a full audit to try to bring the website into sync with my file
<bddebian> tseng: Well that was my original plan but I might be the only member. :-)
<mako> jani: my file is still the official location
<\sh> just getting another cup of coffee..ogra...if the others are starting...u have my vote+voice
<jani> mako, ok thanks
<ogra> \sh, take your time
<Mez> mako, is the LP lsit of ubuntites up to date ?
<mako> jani: the website is just for informational purposes at the moment.. and not guarenteed right
<bddebian> mako: I'm sure you are swamped but did you happen to get my CoC?
<ed1t> can we have East Coast LoCo
<Treenaks> mako: while you're approving proposed members.. :)
<ed1t> ECLoco
<ed1t> heh
<mako> bddebian: i haven't done coc processing in the last week. i mentioned that earlier in this channel
<tseng> thats too wide.
<bddebian> mako: Oh, sorry
<Amaranth> So, is there anything on the agenda that can go on without the full council?
* bddebian starts LOCOLoCo as in Loco en la cabeza
<Treenaks> bddebian: how about a PocoLoCo
<Kamion> sorry I'm late
<Seveas> Amaranth, not really
<bddebian> Treenaks: That's a good one
* |rockinnerd| raises his hand
<Seveas> Treenaks, eeeek
<Amaranth> elmo!
* Mez w00ts for elmo
<elmo> RAH
<Seveas> Treenaks, memorys of crappy pop-techno band ....
<ogra> yay, elmo :=
<Seveas> hi elmo 
<ogra> :)
<Mez> 2 down, 2 to go :D
<kbrooks> almost here
<Amaranth> We just need one more, right?
<Seveas> Mez, you stole my words
<Nafallo> Kamion: hi Kamion :-)
* siretart also fetching some coffee
* |rockinnerd| is waiting for permission to speak
<kbrooks> Mez: sabdfl, and?
<Seveas> hi Kamion 
<siretart> hi Kamion, hello elmo!
<Nafallo> hi elmo :-)
<kolcvk> hi elmo
<|rockinnerd|> hi elmo
<ed1t> bddebian installing...
<bddebian> ed1t: Good luck ;-)
<Mez> I didnt see maion arrive
<tseng> its time to start guys, its going to have to be alot quieter
<Mez> Kamion *
<mdke> yeah let's try and calm it down a little
<kbrooks> :)
<highvoltage> elmo: are you really here?
<mako> elmo: rock out
<ogra> highvoltage, its only his meeting clone ;)
<Nafallo> ogra: lol
<highvoltage> <sigh> i think i might have to get an elmo clone. the first one is unfindable. anyone have any elmo hair lying around that i can borrow?
<Seveas> can't we get an #ubuntu-meeting elma too ;))
<ogra> highvoltage, voodoo ?
<ogra> Seveas, we have one
<ogra> Seveas, elma is the backend for revu :)
<Mez> highvoltage, sladen might
<Seveas> ogra, i know
<kbrooks> highvoltage: i do ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: we can try that. for now i've got to go home. cheers!
<Seveas> but we need one in here ;)
<ogra> highvoltage, ciao
<highvoltage> kbrooks: hold that though.
<Mez> so mako, are we going to start ?
<highvoltage> ciao
* kbrooks hands him some elmo hair
<kbrooks> :P
<Seveas> or a maka for the launchpad approvals :)
<Amaranth> highvoltage: I've got a 'tickle-me elmo', will that work?
<mako> Mez: waiting for one more
<mdke> tseng, *winces*
<kbrooks> </offtopic>
<kbrooks> mako: who?
<ogra> sabdfl
<Seveas> kbrooks, The Boss
<Mez> mako: is sabdfl turning up?
<mako> Seveas, kbrooks: sbadfl or kamion
<Amaranth> we need Kamion or sabdfl
<Amaranth> yeah
<Mez> kamion is here
<tseng> we have Kamion 
<ogra> mako, Kamion is here
<Mez> Kamion sorry I'm late
<tseng> if people would chill out
<tseng> we would've have seen.
<Kamion> stop the noise please
* kbrooks chills out
<Amaranth> ok, hush
<mako> alright then
<mako> i missed it in the noise
<mako> lets stop that
<mako> and get to business so we can all go home.. or stay home
<mako> the agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mako> is there anyone who has an item on the agenda that needs to leave soon
<mako> as in *cannot* stay longer?
<mdke>  [15:18]   * kbrooks chills out
<mdke> sorry
<mdke> slipped
<jsgotangco> im about to crash
<jsgotangco> :(
<mako> alright, lets start from the top
<mako> smurfix: you around?
<smurfix> sure
<mako> new loco team leaders
<mako> mdke is at the top
<mako> already a member
<mako> and the italian team already exists
<mdke> hi all.
<mako> mdke: want to give us a short update the team and the changing roles?
<mdke> mako, you bet, that's why I'm here
<mako> please go ahead
<mdke> so basically the Italian team has had some organisational problems in the past, so we have made a massive effort over the last month or so to make a structure which will resist any problems and generally rock. it is sort of inspired by the CC itself
<mdke> I made a translation of our wiki page that explains the system
<mdke> it can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianCommunityStructure
<mdke> we are very proud of it :)
<smurfix> mdke: Nice page!
<Amaranth> ooh
<mako> mdke: nice!
<mdke> basically we have made a locoteam which resolves problems and attempts to integrate all the various areas of the community
<mdke> sort of like the CC
<\sh> back 
<Alessio> :)
<Seveas> mdke, rock on!
<mako> it would be gthis sounds particularly relevant for larger groups
<Amaranth> I have a feeling any team large enough to fit into that structure will be using it in a month. :)
* |rockinnerd| will be right back
<smurfix> That about takes care of the "is the Italian team an official LoCoTeam" question. ;-)
<mako> and i have no problems recommending this structure to others
<mdke> Amaranth, thanks for saying so
<smurfix> mako: +1
<mako> for smaller teams of course, it migth be quite overkill
<mdke> mako, :) any suggestions to improve are also welcome, naturally
<mako> mdke: i'll take a longer look at it and do that
<mdke> mako, merci
<smurfix> mdke already linked it to the LoCoTeamRunning page
<mako> i'm spending this week catching up from the last 1.5 at conferencers and such
<mako> ok, that sounds great
<smurfix> next is DankoAlexeyev
<Virtuall> me
<Kamion> overkill> yeah, the only thing I'm worried about there is expanding layers of bureaucracy
<mako> mdke: thanks for all of the hard work.. and for bring it to our attention
<smurfix> Virtuall: Care to tell us what's happening in Latvia?
<mako> Kamion: yep.. for places where it's not necessary, it neeeded be there.. but it's a good option for probably the largest half-a-dozem teams
<smurfix> your locoteam list entry is very new
<mdke> mako, thanks go to the whole group: i will pass it on :)
<Virtuall> what do you mean - what is happening?
<mako> Virtuall: what is the current status of ubuntu in latvia?
<mako> Virtuall: and how is your team going to change it
<Seveas> I have been talking to one of the LV guys this week: they have created a team this week and want to create an Ubuntu Support center, the plans sound good but work still needs to start if I understood it correctly
<smurfix> Virtuall: Teams usually consist of more than one person and show some team activity
<Amaranth> s/change/improve/
<Virtuall> currently ubuntu as any other linux distro isn't really popular
<Virtuall> we're going to fix it
<Amaranth> How?
<jsgotangco> Virtuall: because of the popularity of software piracy?
<Virtuall> actually, we aim more to popularize linux itself
<Virtuall> jsgotangco, yes, that's too
<Amaranth> jsgotangco: *cough*
<Virtuall> "linux is free" isn't an argument here, windows is free too
<Virtuall> ;)
<Virtuall> so we'll have to find other ways
* |rockinnerd| raises his hand to speak
<Virtuall> demonstrate the power of linux in public and personally
<mako> Virtuall: that's very common in much of the developing world
<Virtuall> create a webpage
<jsgotangco> Virtuall: I can associate with that situation very much the loco team is a great way to popularize free software
* kbrooks raises his hand to speak
<kbrooks> May I comment?
<Amaranth> Just speak guys. :)
<mako> kbrooks: if it's on topic, just go ahead
<|rockinnerd|> go ahead kbrooks
<smurfix> Ahem, if you have something pertinent to say, just say it ;-)
<kbrooks> Seveas: What is the purpose of the Ubuntu Support Center?
<Virtuall> ?
<Seveas> kbrooks, afaik Ubuntu support and linux advocacy
<Seveas> but it's Virtuall's team, ask him :)
<kbrooks> okay
<kolcvk> as for "fixing " the Linux situation in LV i can tell you that many offices want to install linux cuz its free
<Virtuall> well, yes, of course, support too :)
<Mez> Is it an "online" support centre per se? or like, proper offices ertc
<kolcvk> like proper offices
<|rockinnerd|> Alright. I dual-boot windows and ubuntu.  I find that (a) windows has alltogether too many security holes, (b) ubuntu runs faster, and (c) ubuntu seldom crashes.  yes, these have been said before, but i just wanted to offer my opinion as a windows and ubuntu user as to the pros of ubuntu
<Amaranth> Virtuall: How many people do you have? What is the status of lavtian translation in Ubuntu right now?
<mako> please
<Virtuall> I think we can support people in any way :)
<mako> lets stay on topic.. we're talking about latvia now
<jsgotangco> OT guys
<mako> lets let Virtuall answer questions
<kolcvk> Amarath we have about 9 people
<kolcvk> but they are not regged in Wiki
<Mez> Virtuall, so this is going to be offices etc so you can push things out better to the latvian people? if so - how's it going to be funded?
<Virtuall> Amaranth, our team currently has 8 members and some are still thinking
<kolcvk> ok sorry
<|rockinnerd|> mako: i aplogize.  We were talking about fixing linux's image.
<Amaranth> oh, and i spelled latvian wrong, sorry :)
<|rockinnerd|> when i started typing my message
<Virtuall> argh...
<Amaranth> ok, slow down guys
<Virtuall> Mez, explain the question please? :(
<kolcvk> Virt can i answer ?
<Kamion> 658 translated messages, 55 fuzzy translations, 553 untranslated messages.
<Amaranth> The main thing is they have people, translations (?), and a plan.
<Virtuall> kolcvk, sure :)
<mako> kbrooks: this is for?
<Kamion> ^-- Latvian installer translation state upstream
<kolcvk> Mez
<smurfix> Virtuall: Sounds like you have plans and people. I'd like to see them on your LatvianTeam page.
<Amaranth> Kamion: You mean in GNOME?
<Virtuall> <<< actually it was his idea aboout the team :)
<Kamion> Amaranth: installer != GNOME
<kolcvk> i have an Ltd.
<Amaranth> oh, i missed that word :)
<kolcvk> and we can make official Ubuntu Support Center
<Virtuall> smurfix, we'll list them on our web, but currently there isn't any
<Mez> so you plan to fund this kolcvk ?
<Seveas> Virtuall/kolcvk what are your plans regarding translation?
<kolcvk> we will translate the docbook
<Mez> anyways that's something to be discussed at a later date.
<Virtuall> Seveas, if you tell me how to start translating, i can start any time
<kbrooks> mako: what? i simply asked you to see my wiki page because I might be a member one day.
<Virtuall> currently i get "no permission" error
<ogra> Virtuall, rosetta ;)
<mako> kbrooks: completions mistake.. ignore it
<kolcvk> and we will search some misspelling in the localizations
<kbrooks> mako: ok, sorry.
<ogra> Virtuall,(if its sorted indeed)
<Amaranth> Aye, it'd be a good idea to go over all of the translations real quick.
<mako> alright.. lets focus
<Amaranth> It looks like they're all stale.
<Amaranth> ok, sorry
<mako> Virtuall: in terms of your center
<Virtuall> ?
<mako> there are no "official ubuntu support centers"
<\sh> kolcvk: so u think about marketing linux (insert your distro here) in a commercial way??
<mako> there is no official ubuntu support except the professional support sold by canonical
<kolcvk> no 
<Virtuall> :)
<kolcvk> offcource not
<Virtuall> but we MAY support people, m?
<Virtuall> if we wish
<mako> in general, we try to make it clear to people that locoteams do not represent the entire project
<mako> and are not the official voice of the ubuntu project
<mako> in general, probably only the CC as a whole can make decisions in this regard
<\sh> I asked because of the offices and the Ltd. ,-)
<ogra> they just coordinate local events, care for translation etc
<mako> so i'm not sure how an official support center would factor in
<mako> right
<mako> that said
<mako> if you guys, as ubuntu-lv, wanted to set up an ubuntu-lv support center, that's AWESOME
<mako> and we would be very supportive of you doing it
<kolcvk> we will
<smurfix> Virtuall: so you should just drop the word "official", but other than that .. go for it
<Virtuall> :) i'm not really sure about that :) kolcvk decides
<mako> but if you're going to be charging money and connecting to revenue generation and business, we'd think very very hard first
<mako> and probably say no
<Virtuall> anyway it's not today. today we simply want a team
<kolcvk> mako , no charge
<mako> kolcvk: that sounds great :)
<Virtuall> ok, 'official' >> ''
<kolcvk> totally free
<Virtuall> haha
<mako> in any case, we can talk about the specifics once you guys know more
<mako> so, we know a bit of about what you want to do
* jsgotangco thinks everyone is on crack today
<mako> want to talk a bit about what you have done so far?
<\sh> s/crack/coffee/
<kolcvk> yes
<mako> it's already been mentioned that you guys may be interested in using rosetta to do translations
<mako> quickly.. we need to move on
<mdke>  [15:40]  < kolcvk> yes
<kolcvk> we have a little plan on 30.07
<mdke> argh
<mdke> this damn laptop
<mako> kolcvk: cool
<Amaranth> mdke: don't touch the mouse :)
<kolcvk> it will be a big event
<Amaranth> an installfest?
<Seveas> kolcvk, make a report of it and present it on the next CC meeting :) 
<kolcvk> nope
<kolcvk> ok
<Virtuall> :)
<kolcvk> Amarath we will show the people what is linux
<mako> and coordinate with me about the cds
<mako> kolcvk: that sounds great :)
<kolcvk> and why it is free and so great
<mdke> awesome kolcvk 
<mako> it sounds like you guys have some great plans.. i'm looking forward to seeing them blossom
<kolcvk> that's why we need more CD's
<Virtuall> currently we simply tell everyone that linux is good and why. actually we were doing it even before we heard of ubuntu
<mako> let us know what we can do to help
<kolcvk> generally we're running out of CD's (cuz it will be big event , we nee more)
<mako> we can talk about that later
<kolcvk> need *
<kolcvk> yes
<silbs> fyi - LoCo teams planning events may want to consider doing something on 10 Sept - Sofware Freedom Day (www.softwarefreedomday.org)
<mako> alright
<Virtuall> later :) later :)
<mako> silbs: ++
<mdke> nice one silbs 
<Seveas> silbs, /me will be giving a presentation about Ubuntu on SFD :)
<Virtuall> 10.09... /me wrote down
<mako> ok..
<jsgotangco> silbs: ++  our loco team is actually co-sponsoring SFD in Philippines
<kolcvk> me too
<silbs> getting local press (esp if it mentions Ubuntu!) would be great!
<mdke> mako, sorry i thought about something else I wanted to discuss re: Italy if this item is done
<silbs> jsgotangco: great. Canonical is sponsoring it too, providing lots of CDs, etc
<Virtuall> ok
<kolcvk> oh , and we have an event on 255 day (sysadmins day )
<mako> mdke: yes, lets do it quickly and try not to be here 2 hours :))
<mdke> mako, ok
<mako> mdke has the floor
<Virtuall> kolcvk, what do you think if we contacted, say, LAKA about this? I think they're making some event too :)
<kolcvk> ok
<Amaranth> Virtuall: later :)
<Virtuall> (we ourselves are still too small to organize something)
<mdke> mako, we are setting up a domain at ubuntu-it.org and this includes web, wiki and forum. We need a tar of the wiki pages from elmo, but I spoke to him about it and he suggested we talk about it here as he was concerned about wiki splitting
<Amaranth> wiki splitting bad
<mdke> i think that it is clear that all locoteams tend to use their own wikis
<mdke> this can help because of language things
<elmo> mdke: how so?
<silbs> mdke: why? (not arguing, just trying to understand)
<jsgotangco> its perfectly acceptable especially if there is a language issue
<Seveas> mdke, hmm, I am right now trying to get the NL wiki integrated in the official one
<kolcvk> mako : can we get ubuntu-lv.org ?
<mako> silbs: we have no mechanism to keep them in sync
<mako> kolcvk: talk to sm	
<Amaranth> kolcvk: later :)
<Seveas> kolcvk, contact smurfix
<mako> kolcvk: smurfix even
<kolcvk> ok
<mdke> because it is easier to organise indexs of the pages in a particular language, and also it is important to integrate the local wiki with the local website and forum
<mdke> silbs, elmo ^
<smurfix> kolcvk: sure
<jsgotangco> (although i've seen chinese wikis about ubuntu and they're totally way out of topic sometimes)
<mdke> also, the locoteam can better administrate the wiki
<Mez> jsgotangco, just liek this meeting ?
<tseng> why cant you make a localized "index" for your stuff on the main wiki
<tseng> and branch off from that
<kolcvk> mako : another "support" we have opened a little mirror for ubuntu distrs ,
<Amaranth> Mez: you aren't helping :)
<robitaille> the Canadian teams also went throught that debate and decided to have their own wiki for control reasons, and also the 2 languages issue in Canada
<Virtuall> kolcvk, we already have? k001
<kolcvk> yeap
<mdke> tseng, anything is possible. However this would rather upset what every single locoteam is doing right now, with some small exceptions
<Virtuall> you should at least inform me...
<kolcvk> :)
<Seveas> Virtuall, kolcvk please stay on topic and discuss LV things in private now
<smurfix> IMHO it makes sense for locoteams to be able to admin their own wiki
<silbs> mdke: there is a lot that happens in the wiki other than documentation. Splitting them potentially dilutes all the other pieces (art, calendars, dev topics, etc)
<kolcvk> ok sorry
<Virtuall> ok
<tseng> well your reasons for doing it mentioned so far doesnt seem that convincing imo
<tseng> are there others?
<mdke> silbs, i'm aware of that of course.
<Amaranth> well, we're pretty well split right now awyway
<Amaranth> err, anyway
<mdke> silbs, but the Italian section of the wiki is wholly in Italian language
<silbs> i thought part of the moin switch was to have sections for languages - e.g. /fr, /it, tec
<ogra> Amaranth, sadly
<silbs> did that not happen? does that not solve your issue?
<Amaranth> instead of seperate wikis we have seperate languages, which is required
<Seveas> silbs, my idea too, but then all topics would still be in english which sort of defeats translation...
<mako> alright guys
<Amaranth> but things don't get translated in and out of all of the languages
<jsgotangco> maybe Henrik can help on that?
<mdke> silbs, it didn't happen
<mdke> excuse me, fire alarm
<mako> i for one am not informed enough about the technical issues involved here with what moin can or can't do or will or will not do to make any sort of informed decision
<silbs> Seveas: by topics do you mean wiki page titles?
<Amaranth> o_O
<Seveas> silbs, yes
<mako> does it make sense to have thie conversation on the docteam mailing list and then to get some sort of proposal if anything needs to be changed?
<jsgotangco> mako: good idea
<elmo> Seveas: wiki titles don't have to be in English?
<Seveas> mako++
<Mez> mako +1 :P
<silbs> Seveas: but those don't have to be english (at least that's my understanding)
<mdke> the work involved would be incredible
<mdke> many other language wikis are not in moin format
<Seveas> elmo, if you use /it switches it would be like wiki.ubuntu.com/GrubIssues/it
<mako> i don't see consensus happening on this right now.. it's a good point but i don't think we can solve it right now
<Seveas> if I understood it
<mdke> if we have www.ubuntu-xx.org and forum.ubuntu-xx.org, what is wrong with wiki.ubuntu-xx.org
<ogra> mdke, maintaining many more stuff ?
<Amaranth> well, we try to keep everything together as much as possible
<mako> mdke: we do have that in the vast majority of cases
<mdke> it helps to integrate the parts of a site
<mako> *many* locos have their own wiki
<ogra> s/many/mich
<ogra> much (grr)
<jsgotangco> more DNS entries won't solvethe problem
<mako> but please, can we have this conversation later?
<Amaranth> ogra: you mean most?
<mdke> IMO if you wish to bring locos into the main wiki, you will also have to think about brining them into the static website
<ogra> Amaranth, that anyway...
<mdke> so for now, the italian wiki effort dies?
<Amaranth> ok, next item on the agenda?
<ogra> members
<Mez> Amaranth, members
* jsgotangco feels like he's in San Andreas
<Mez> I believe Razor-X is up first, who seems to have slept in
<mako> mdke: my opinion is that it's fine as long as you also push for more global answer/position from the doteam
<Seveas> KoushikRoy, here..?
<smurfix> mako: ++
<Mez> Seveas, he isnt here
<mdke> mako, okay I can discuss it with henrik and others maybe
<Seveas> StefanPotyra, here..?
<mdke> perhaps smurfix will get involved too?
<sistpoty> yes
<mako> mdke: yes, make sure henrik is involved
<mako> mdke: and smurt
<smurfix> mdke: sure
<mako> mdke: and smurfix 
<mako> ok..
<mdke> mako, henrik had no objections last time we spoke about it
<Seveas> sistpoty, good, do the 3-line intro please when mako is ready :)
<smurfix> though for now I think the Italians should do what everybody else is doing -- no sense in singliing them out for an integration effort
<mako> ok.. you guys have your homework
<mdke> thanks :)
<mdke> move on then
<mako> lets move on
<smurfix> OK
<sistpoty> what i did: revu with siretart :), trying to help out motu's where i can (ex.: MOTUGhc6transition, http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=96)
<sistpoty> what i am planning: revu2, become a motu
* mako pokes elmo and Kamion 
<mako> KoushikRoy, yes?
<sistpoty> and plans: no idea really g
<Mez> KoushikRoy = not here mako
<sistpoty> s/plans/visions/
<siretart> sistpoty also contributed packages and patches to existing packages in universe
<Amaranth> This is Stefan Potyra
<mako> ok.. Stefan Potyra
<bddebian> sistpoty: Ohh <OT>, I was palying around with GH6 / haskell-utils last night
<Kamion> mako: here, just didn't feel I had a lot to contribute to the earlier bit
<mako> Kamion: yeah, i understand 
<\sh> sistpoty: start again ;)
<sistpoty> ok
<sistpoty> what i did: revu with siretart :), trying to help out motu's where i can (ex.: MOTUGhc6transition, http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=96)
<sistpoty> what i am planning: revu2, become a motu
<Seveas> sistpoty, good stuff
<Seveas> revu looks good :)
<sistpoty> thx ;)
<Amaranth> +1 :)
<tseng> revu is one of the best tools the MOTU has
<Mez> +1
<Seveas> ogra, siretart ..?
<\sh> sistpoty++
<tseng> sistpoty++.
<siretart> absolutly. sistpoty rocks!
<sistpoty> thx :)
<\sh> he is integrating very fast and he has knowledge
<bddebian> sistpoty++ :-)
<ogra> revu became our central tool in the MOTU world.... sistpoty++++ membrship for 50% of revu
<Mez> MOTU wouldnt be where it si without REVU IMHO
<jsgotangco> this is really nice
<\sh> and REVU is HeMans tool 
<siretart> hangs around in #ubuntu-motu and helps other newbee's in the motu world
<ogra> yeah
<mdke> good work sistpoty 
<Seveas> ah, cool
<sistpoty> thx again :)
* Seveas goes to spam sistpoty soon then
<Amaranth> aye, sistpoty rocks all around
<Seveas> All we need is a CC answer now. Kamion, elmo, mako?
<ogra> Kamion, elmo, mako opinions ?
<Kamion> sistpoty: is Haskell a particular interest, or was it just something you stumbled across?
* mako was just using revu to check it out
<ogra> mako, do you like it ?
<sistpoty> Kamion: not really a particular interest, i was just having a haskell lesson this term
<bddebian>  haskell-utils / ghc6 is jacked (sorry, OT again)
<Kamion> the level of enthusiasm from the MOTU cheerleading fraternity makes it difficult to say no ;-)
<ogra> hehe
<siretart> :)
<mako> ogra: it seems quite useful
<ogra> he deserves it
<sistpoty> bddebian: let's discuss haskell-utils in #motu later
<Amaranth> it's sped up the review process _a lot_
<bddebian> sistpoty: OK, thx
<mako> revu seems to quite rock.. i'm happy to approve your application
<Kamion> (which is a serious point actually, I don't know how you guys would behave if you *weren't* incredibly enthusiastic about somebody, because that's all we ever see ...)
<ogra> just to tell, revu just came out of nowhere it suddenly was there... noone asked for it etc...
<Kamion> but by all accounts revu is a very handy tool, so I'm happy with sistpoty for membership
<bddebian> Kamion: :-)
<Seveas> elmo..?
<Amaranth> Kamion: We have a lot of awesome members then, don't we? :)
<mako> where is the source to revu?
<ogra> Amaranth, we have :)
<jsgotangco> nice observation
<smurfix> Kamion: I suspect the others don't get to the CC meeting in the first place ...
<ogra> mako, siretart can mail it to you
<\sh> mako: it's in svn and everybody can get it...ask siretart 
<siretart> mako: we don't have a public svn yet, we will set it up with revu2
<Kamion> Amaranth: it's a serious point, if everyone's excellent we have no way to tell what your threshold is
<bddebian> Kamion, smurfix: Well they haven't gotten to me yet ;-)
<siretart> mako: revu is currently quite a hack, we are working on a clean rewrite
<Amaranth> aye, they usually only apply because they're good very good things and someone tells them to
<ogra> Kamion, more excellent indeed ;)
<mako> siretart: if you want help with a baz or baz-ng archive.. it might be fun to learn
<Mez> Kamion, isn';t excellency good enough for you ?
<mako> anywya
<\sh> mako: i will give them a lesson ,-)
<ogra> Kamion, there is always space to improve :)
<Kamion> no, I pay a lot more attention to "foo has done x and y and z" than to "foo is great"
<Seveas> good call
<siretart> mako: this is definitly an option, and I will investigate it. unfortunatly, both me and sistpoty will be very busy with university stuff the next approx. 3 weeks :(
<Amaranth> Kamion: That's what I mean. Usually people don't apply unless they've been doing good things and someone tells them.
<mako> lets move on
* jsgotangco loves the icons
<Kamion> sistpoty: (anyway, sorry, this isn't aimed at you, just a long-standing gripe with the membership process)
<mako> SebastianDroege
<\sh> siretart: I will create a baz archive from svn..:) 
<smurfix> mako: getting this meeting back on topic seems like an uphill battle today...
* mako nods to Kamion 
<Amaranth> jsgotangco: GTK stock :)
<siretart> \sh: thanks!
<slomo> mako: here i am :)
<mako> hey there slomo 
<siretart> sistpoty: welcome to ubuntu! :)
<sistpoty> :)
<Kamion> Amaranth: but different people have different ideas of what good is, depending on their experience, so we need to filter it somehow
<Seveas> slomo, the 3-line intro please :)
<ogra> yay, sistpoty welcome :)
<slomo> what i did: backports, fixes for some universe and main packages. currently working on UniverseUnmetDeps
<slomo> what i plan: becoming a maintainer/motu, work in the backports and MOTUMedia teams and help the MOTU whereever possible. also searching for some new areas where i can be useful
<slomo> ideas and visions: help ubuntu to become the best desktop platform ;)
<mako> slomo: SO PREPARED
* mako hugs slomo 
<Amaranth> slomo did all the translation infrastructure for smeg for me
<kbrooks> slomo: ++
<jsgotangco> its soo scripted i love it
<Mez> lol @ mako - I was prepared too - but I never got to use my script before i got said yes to
<Amaranth> he went from not knowing what gettext was to a full system that's mostly automated in a week and sent a patch :)
<Mez> slomo's been doing LOTS of good work on backports aswell - near enough all of the PPC stuff (if not all of it)
<ogra> slomo helped a lot in the MOTU world recently, +1 from here
<bddebian> slomo has helped me a great deal with packaging questions, etc on #motu
<Mez> +1 from me for backports
<mako> what was this translations infrastructure you were creating? we also have rosetta :)
<Kamion> slomo: what's your perception of how media handling's coming along (in Ubuntu and more generally)?
<\sh> +1 as well...he's doing quite a lot...and what I saw great work
<Kamion> I know it's not something I generally find myself working with - the installer doesn't have much need of it ...
<Amaranth> mako: I meant making pot files and mo files and making all strings go through _() and etc
<bddebian> slomo++
<siretart> slomo also prepared a lot of patches to packages in UniverseUnmetDependencies, I already uploaded 3 of them. great work!
<slomo> Kamion: i think media handling comes good along in the linux world in the last few years
<tseng> I've worked with slomo on a few packages, quick learner, nice work
<tseng> slomo++
<Mez> slomo has done approx 20% of all backports submissions
<Mez> so +1 for me
<jsgotangco> wow
<Amaranth> Kamion: btw, i have a feeling we've eventually start leveling out once we have enough members to generally handle MOTU things
* Mez will brb
<Amaranth> err, we'll
<Kamion> slomo: any particular goals for the future on that front?
<mako> ?
<slomo> Kamion: yes... i plan the inclusion of mplayer and transcode as far as it's legally ok for example
<Amaranth> we have mplayer
<Kamion> we have those in multiverse; better maintenance would be good, though
* mako nods.. i've seem some problems
<Kamion> or at least somebody who generally feels responsible for them
<siretart> yes, slomo and I are forming a MOTUMedia team for that
<siretart> i.e. giving love to multimedia related packages in multiverse and universe
<slomo> Kamion: they are... ok i overlooked them... but then i'll try the improve these packages ;) and there are currently some packages missing to allow playing of some obscure media formats as monkey's audio for example
* slomo thought mplayer/transcode only were in backports currently
<mako> slomo: alright..
<Amaranth> slomo: and gstreamer plugins :)
<Nafallo> slomo: true for transcode
<ogra> slomo, everything thats legally possible is fine :)
<tseng> slomo: do you want to take my gst-plugins-multiverse? :P
<slomo> tseng: sure, when you want to give it away? :)
<tseng> ill talk to you later.
<Amaranth> ok, so...
<ogra> slomo, its already quite good prepared :)
<jsgotangco> as long as theres no dodgy formats :)
<mako> ok.. i'd like to see some more before i settled on upload rights.. but i'm happy with apporving membership
<Amaranth> +1 from me, slomo learns quick and has helped out a lot
<mako> Kamion, elmo:?
<ogra> mako, ??
<ogra> mako, i would approve upload rights already :)
<mako> ogra: you've clearly seen more than i :)
<ogra> (if this were the right meeting)
<slomo> jsgotangco: dodgy as in legally suspect?
<tseng> ogra: id be happy to do that at the next TB
<Amaranth> slomo: yeah, like w32codecs :P
<ogra> yeps
<jsgotangco> slomo: aye we're debating on that issue with docteam
<\sh> guys...membership for slomo: + or -?
<Kamion> mako: fine by me
<Mez> +1 for slomo
<Kamion> \sh: relax
<\sh> actually...45 mins left..for me
<bddebian> slomo++ again :-)
<Mez> (back btw)
<kbrooks> slomo++
<jsgotangco> +1 great work
<ogra> +1
<\sh> +1 from me
<mdke> nice work slomo 
<slomo> Amaranth: yes, w32codecs would be a timebomb ;) i won't touch it
<Kamion> elmo: 2 out of 4 votes so far ...
<mako> alright.. we'll wait for elmo
<elmo> ack
<mako> :)
<jsgotangco> :)
<Mez> prefect timing as always elmo :D
<Mez> perfect *
<mako> elmo: we'll let you catch up..
<mako> is DankoAlexeyev around?
<kolcvk> yes
<kolcvk> i will call him
<kolcvk> plz wait
<mako> lets move on.. we can come back
<ogra> mako, thats Virtuall
<mako> Christian Bjlevik?
<Mez> nafallo
<Nafallo> hmm, to late to make popcorn now? ;-)
<ogra> Nafallo, !
<Nafallo> hmm, that was the wrong paste ;-)
<Nafallo> so far I've lurked around and helped out where I could. that includes a main upload for smartmontools yesterday (thanx ogra) and current lead for ubuntu swedish translators. I'll try to get my girlfriend to join the artwork team soonish, and she is already translating for us :-).
<Nafallo> I'm involved in ubuntu security and tries to find bugs to squash now and then. this weekend we'll visit Mithrandir to get our keys signed and hang out :-). any questions?
<Nafallo> :-)
<Virtuall> here
<Virtuall> DankoAlexeyev
<tseng> Virtuall: you are next.
<Virtuall> :)
<Seveas> Virtuall, wait please
<Virtuall> i see
<tseng> Nafallo is more like one of two guys on Universe Security
<tseng> they rock.
<ogra> absolutely
<mdke> security ++
<ogra> Nafallo, is around since quite some time and already helped a lot in -motu
<jsgotangco> i'm surprised
<Nafallo> since warty iirc :-)
<ogra> jsgotangco, =
<ogra> ?
<tseng> jsgotangco: that he isnt already a member!
<mako> Nafallo: i've seen you around for some time and am familiar with your work
<jsgotangco> tseng: aye
<ogra> ah
<mako> your wiki page isn't quite as developed in terms of documenting your contributions to ubuntu in any depth
<ogra> yes, its somewhat late
<Kamion> huh, I thought Nafallo was already a member
* siretart is actually surprised that Nafallo is not a member yet, he is always so helpfull and responsive in #motu, so +1 from me!
<mako> but since i am alaready faimilar with the work, i'm happy to approve you
<Kamion> (thus I'm happy to vote for him as such)
<ogra> Kamion, make him one, quick :)
<mako> Kamion: that was my reaction as well
<Nafallo> mako: quickly made that one up yesterday night ;-)
<mako> elmo: ?
<Nafallo> Kamion: heh, surprise ;-)
<Amaranth> i thought so too
<jsgotangco> this is a no-brainer for sure
<Amaranth> he has been around longer than me and i've been fanboying these meetings since 2 weeks after warty released :)
<elmo> ack
<ogra> welcome Nafallo then :)
<Nafallo> thanx guys! :-)
<mako> awesome
<Amaranth> congrats Nafallo 
<ogra> finally you can go for MOTU :)
<Nafallo> that was a quick one :-)
<mako> Virtuall: we've already talked to you in some depth
<siretart> Nafallo: welcome to ubuntu! :)
<comadreja> 7ws 7
<Mez> mako, cna I shove the backports down the agenda slightly - I've just got to pop do somehting
<Nafallo> siretart: I'll send you a REVU-mail soon :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: welcome on board ,-)
<mako> Mez: sure
<Virtuall> yes
<siretart> comadreja: dont paste your passwords in irc ;)
<Mez> cool, I'll poke you when I'm back mako
<Mez> shouldnt be more than a few mins
<comadreja> it was /w(indow)s(wap) 7
<Nafallo> thanx again all :-)
<mako> Virtuall: my general feeling is that unless there is a body of work and contributions not documented on your page, i'd suggest postponing this for a meeting or two until you can get your team off the ground and such
<Seveas> mako++
<mako> Virtuall: i am sure you will be an important contributor to ubuntu.. but membership recognizes a history of substantial and sustained contributions
<Virtuall> ...
<ogra> yes, we need some visual contribution... even a small one will do...
<mako> ogra: well, a small one might not
<ogra> depends :)
<robitaille> unless it's a very good small one
<Virtuall> the hardest is to find what to contribute :(
<jsgotangco> 1kb worth of contrib? :)
<ogra> robitaille++
<bddebian> Virtuall: Amen :-)
<Virtuall> heh
<Amaranth> Virtuall: Once you get your team going and get some translations or something I'm sure it won't be a problem getting you accepted.
<smurfix> Virtuall: Progress on your support / loco / translation plans will do nicely
<jsgotangco> indeed
<mako> Virtuall: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<mako> start there
<mako> that is a very long page with ideas to get started with
<Virtuall> translation :) already started
<mdke> ++ good page
<Amaranth> If the next meeting is after july 30th you should have something big to talk about. :)
<mako> mdke: i made that one ;)
<mdke> :)
<mako> Virtuall: start some of your projects.. your ideas sounds great
<mako> Virtuall: then come back in a few weeks or months and tell us about them
<mako> Virtuall: :)
<mako> Virtuall: sound fair?
<Virtuall> :
<Virtuall> :)
<Virtuall> k
<mako> cool
<mako> alright
<Seveas> Next up: backports team
<Amaranth> nope
<mako> postponed
<Seveas> ok
<\sh> FreeNode?
<Seveas> Next up: my call (Freenode Reg.)
<bddebian> Hey :'-(
<ogra> mako, wrt postponing the backports, do we cann the other membership guys
<mako> freenode reg
<ogra> call
<Mez> am back
<Amaranth> Mez: You're next.
<Mez> I guessed :D
<Seveas> I have documented it on the wiki, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreenodeRegistrationSpec
<Amaranth> I've had some discussions with alindeman about group registration for another project.
<mako> ok.. an official backports team.. Mez talk make.. i'll read up on the spec
<Amaranth> But it looks like the wiki basically covers it.
<Mez> ok, put simply, I've been told that we need to form an official team, Curerntly ou team consists of myself, john Dong, Slomo and Mike Basinger.
* kolcvk translating ....
<Amaranth> Whoever the group contact is is intially going to have a lot of work if we want to get cloaks and such setup, after that they're more or less just a communications channel.
<Mez> The team should be the people that are allowed to poke elmo into actualyl starting the backports process
<Amaranth> oh, are we coming back to backports?
<\sh> Amaranth: first backports now, then freenode
<Amaranth> ok
<Mez> so far, both myself and John are allowed to (and I've poked elmo, but still to recieve a response) 
<Kamion> Seveas: I'm not sure about the developer/staff distinction in the spec - not speaking for everyone at Canonical, but I think many of us would prefer not to emphasise that distinction
<mako> Amaranth: please, one at a time
<Mez> but this is just the final formalities of allowing others to poke elmo (as far as I'm aware)
<Seveas> Mez, will backports repositories move to *.ubuntu.com ?
<ogra> Mez, so jdong is responsive again ?
<Kamion> Seveas: they'll be on archive.ubuntu.com
<mako> Seveas: yes, eventually
<Mez> Johns' unavailable at the moment due to classes, so he couldnt be here
<tseng> im also worried about jdongs participation in ubuntu proper.
<elmo> mez: I've been at debconf, I'll deal with it later this evening
<tseng> we see much more of Mez
<Mez> elmo: as I thought
<ogra> i could shed some light on the technical side if someone is interested
<mdke> i have a couple of questions on backports. 1. will hoary-extras be in the archive.ubuntu.com repository? also 2. is there any plans to integrate with bug reporting facilities, e.g. malone?
<ogra> at least how mdz wants it to be...
<\sh> I have also some objections with jdong...I don't see him around, would like to have more integration with -motu and also in -devel
<mako> mdz, elmo, myself, and sabdfl had busy weeks at debconf
<Amaranth> I thought jdong was working on ltsp for edubuntu.
<tseng> also can MOTUs trigger backports
<mako> mdke: lets not have an indepth conversation on specifics now
<ogra> Amaranth, huh ??
<jsgotangco> i don't see why not
<smurfix> ogra: that information might make sense as a wiki page
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<seth_k> currently backports has some shady stuff like w32codecs, how will that be handled?
<Kamion> mdke: what's in hoary-extras?
* jsgotangco believes Universe can be a backport by itself being community driven
<tseng> seth_k: ignore what is there now.
<ogra> seth_k, it wont
<Amaranth> seth_k: That's hoary-extras, that's going to stay seperate.
<Mez> no shady stuff will be in backports official
<seth_k> right, thanks
<Amaranth> seth_k: If it continues at all.
<mdke> mako, we have some legal issues which are a problem for the docteam right now. The only place we can think of getting guidance is here
<mdke> Mez, that's all I need to know, thanks :)
<ogra> the backports will only be triggered by the backports team, the will build automatically from the next versions packages
<Seveas> Mez, what are your plans for hoary-extras?
<Mez> so far, the only things we are allowed to backport are the things that are in breezy
<mako> mdke: right, buts lets stick to an agneda and do it in order or we're screwed
<Seveas> Mez, because I need freenx from it :)
<ogra> if there are changes to packages, you need a maintainer to make them
<mdke> mako, agreed, apologies
<Amaranth> ah, that's what it was
<mako> please people
<Mez> Seveas, I personally have no plans for it, but I beleive Johns keeping on with the project
<Amaranth> sorry
<mako> we're talking aout creating an official ubuntu backports team
<mako> no we all agreed we wanted to do this a few weeks ago
<Amaranth> ok, does anyone not understand what the role of the team will be?
<mdke> well if the archive is official, the team should be official too, so +1 from me
<tseng> mako: so what is the question
<kbrooks> Question: Why create an official ubuntu backports team?
<Mez> for anyone who's interested in the technical side, talk to me after: or read http://www.sourceguru.net/stuff/10/chat-with-mdz-log
<\sh> actually the team needs a SPOC
<mako> so, it sounds like some poeple are basically saying that the backports team hasn't integrated completely into the rest of the project
<Mez> \sh - SPOC?
<jsgotangco> why can't backports be part of Universe then?
<kbrooks> Isn't backports already official?
<tseng> mako: hm
<\sh> Single Point Of Contact (taking over Ogras Part)
<ogra> Mez, single point of contact
<Amaranth> jsgotangco: you sound like ogra :)
<tseng> mako: john dong has not integrated. mez and slomo have. it sounds like there could be a legitimate time issue atm for john
<Amaranth> jsgotangco: That's the end goal.
<ogra> jsgotangco, because its a different project
<Mez> ogra: I would assume that, as people have problems with john at the moment, then the SPOC would be me
<\sh> and for my person, I would like to see someone who is catchable
<ogra> jsgotangco, but since they need MOTU for fixing the packages, they will work tight with us i guess
<mako> jsgotangco: we've had this conversation before.. inot possible right now
<Amaranth> slomo or Mez, they are both on a lot more than jdong has been
<mdke> the team should use the -devel list and malone IMO. a single point of contact sounds good
<jsgotangco> ok....
<Seveas> mez is catchable
<ogra> Amaranth++
<Mez> Amaranth, I'm the more clued in of both of us
<Seveas> he is in #ubuntu-nun too often :)
<mdke>  [16:18]  < tseng> Nafallo is more like one of two guys on Universe Security
<mako> sounds other people seemed to raise concern with the quality or the nature of the software being distrbitued
<mako> like, w32codecs, for example
<Seveas> mdke, fix your laptop :)
<Kamion> kbrooks: backports only became vaguely official a few weeks back, and this is part of the process.
<Amaranth> mdke: don't touch the mouse! :P
<\sh> and Mez is one of the good guys, slomo as well...
<mdke> sorry again
<Mez> mako: the point is we're only backporting stuff officially that is in breezy
<Mez> mako: so if you have issues with quality, poke the devs and MOTU
<mako> Mez: so you don't have w32codecs?
<mdke> i'm reassured by that statement
<Mez> mako: w32codecs = in haory-extras
<ogra> mako, the other point is that we dont get pbackporte kernel or libc packages
<Seveas> ...or backport libgcc
<Mez> and even if it is in backports - then when things are built officially, it wont be able to
<mako> Mez: i think that's splitting hairs
<Seveas> which is there now
<mdke> so hoary-extras continues?
<\sh> hmm?? i'm confused...this is governance stuff, right?
<ogra> \sh, yep
<Mez> Seveas: hopefully the new build system and moving everything official will get rid of that
<Mez> mdke: Thats' up to jdong, it wont continue officially
<Amaranth> What exactly are we supposed to be discussing here? The structure of the team?
<Mez> \sh it's meant to be
<mako> Mez: i'm afraid of our group making "official" a repository and a group that is doing things that we all realize are legally dangerous
<ogra> Amaranth, themembers ? the SPOC ?
<mako> Amaranth: no, the creation of the team right now
<\sh> Mez: yes..and I'm afraid that we're talking technical things now
<mdke> Mez, ok some communication with him would be good then. Otherwise you'll end up "forking" the backports team :/
<Mez> mako: it's not possibel for the official stuff to make anything dangerous, currently we dont have direct upload, and it's not planned AFAIK
<bddebian> afk, back in 5
<\sh> well...I think, if it's CCs issue to discuss the creation of the backports team, we should be 
<mako> Mez: what not clear to me is what is official and what is not
<Amaranth> jdong is leader, Mez is contact
<mako> \sh: we are
<Mez> mako: official = on archive.ubuntu.com
<\sh> aware, that a SPOC or team lead which is not there, is a nono...mez and/or slomo are here and are integrating
<Mez> everything else != official
<mako> Mez: if that's your definition of official, then there is no need for an official team until you move there
<Amaranth> \sh: jdong is up for member status
<mako> Mez: if it's produced by the official team, it's official
<Seveas> Amaranth, he is one already
<Amaranth> \sh: he is just overloaded with school atm
<tseng> we arent speaking about a leader afaict, concerns have been laid out
<mako> Mez: unless they are clearly acting in another capacity
<tseng> team +1
<Amaranth> Seveas: not according to the agenda
<Seveas> hmm
<mako> we all agree that there should be a team
<Mez> John=  a member
<Amaranth> yes
<jsgotangco> aye
<slomo> afaik jdong planned to continue hoary-extras as before unconnected to the "normal" backports so there will be no implications imho
<Amaranth> +1 team
<\sh> +1 team
<Seveas> Amaranth, that's my mistake, forgot to take him of that list
<Seveas> +1 for official backports team
<mako> please
* Mez is willing to be POC for the backprots team as some people have issues with John
<tseng> ok then, im back to being confused what we are discussing
<mako> we have already agreed to create an official backports repository, an official team, etc etc
<Amaranth> What exactly are we supposed to be talking about then?
<mako> i guess they are looking for formal team recognition right now
* siretart also has lost the point.
<Seveas> mako, ok, so what is the point in this discussion then...?
<mako> but, as far as i can tell, there has been no movement into actually making any of the work use the official infrastructure
<Mez> the reason this was added was because of mdz's email
<Mez> The formation of an official backports team should be discussed at the next
<Mez> CC meeting, but in the interest of getting the project going (and testing
<Mez> the infrastructure further), but in the meantime, please honor requests
<Mez> which come from john.dong@gmail.com or martin@sourcefrog.net.
* Kamion gives up on the totally random voting in this meeting
<ogra_> grmpf
<ogra_> Seveas, we need a spoc
<jsgotangco> martin pool?
<ogra_> jsgotangco, Mez
<Mez> mako: we're just waiting on elmo to start building stuff ... before we become official
<mako> Kamion: most of the votes don't matter, i just ignore them
<jsgotangco> ahh
<ogra_> Mez, you have to trigger elmo for that as i understood it
<Kamion> mako: I know, but they make scrollback difficult to follow; I'm doing other things at the same time as this meeting
<Mez> the point of this is to form a team, and accept people on to that team to give them permission to start the process by contacting elmo
<mako> so i haven't thought about this too much but here is my position:
<mako> we've already committed to create a team so i don't think we need another vote now
<Mez> mako: this is meant to be approving the initial members of the team
<mako> the official internal team exists when the work is being done internally
<ogra_> mako, wh leads the team ? 
<Amaranth> Mez
<ogra_> mako, to whom do i talk about backports ?
<Mez> and defining the SPOC
<ogra_> Amaranth, did we make that official now ?
<Amaranth> I think that's what we're supposed to be doing right now...
<Mez> that's what needs to be decided.
<ogra_> yep
<Mez> So, for now, we need to agree that the initial team will be myself, slomo, john dong and mike basinger (the people who currently work on backports) and also decide that someone be the SPOC
<mako> i'm worried about putting you guys on the website when the "official work" and the "unofficial work" is confused
<mako> Mez: teams can decide their own make-up
* mdke nods
<Mez> mako: I was referred her by mdz to decide all of this
<Mez> elmo should have the email regarding it
* mako sighs loudly
<mako> Mez: like i said.. you guys have a team for weeks
<mdke> this obsession with launchpad teams is odd: teams are made up by the people doing the work, full stop
* mako nods to mdke 
<Amaranth> teams decide their own makeup and leader, i'm not sure what's going on here
<Seveas> So if there is nothing to decide/do here, can we move on..?
<jsgotangco> i agree
<mako> Seveas: probably.. lets see
<slomo> mako: what do you mean by confusing official and unofficial work?
<ogra_> slomo, if hoary-extras stays we have two teams
<Mez> mako I'm confused by this as much as anyone else :P
<mako> ok
<mako> ok, please move forward integrating your work into the archive
<mako> work with mdz
<sivang> hi all
<mako> if there is a specific issue that mdz had, it was never communicated to me
<Amaranth> It's going to anger users but I think the point is if you're going to be an official team you really shouldn't be working on hoary-extras.
<mako> and
<Mez> mako, one sec, lemme point you to the reason this came out
<Kamion> slomo: official => hoary-backports, unofficial => hoary-extras; the latter has legal problems; many of the same people are doing both and they often get promoted together, so we need to be very clear that they are distinct.
<mako> Kamion: yes.. 
<mako> and that's *not* the case right now
<Mez> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ubuntu-bp-devel/browse_thread/thread/4ca5491c4702a037/fdd67b7f2a2baf93#fdd67b7f2a2baf93
<mdke> it will become clearer once the official backports repo is up
<Amaranth> nope, people think they get w32codecs from 'backports'
<Mez> click on the "expand quoted text"
<mako> if you want us to say "we aggree that backports are official" i'm going to hold off on this until the official repository is created and this distinction is clear to users
<mako> if you want my advice, you're smart to stay away from tat stuff yourself
<Mez> mako: afaik this is just to confirm who'#s allowed to ask elmo to start somethign being backported
<Mez> (which IMO should go through Tech Board)
<Amaranth> Yeah, you don't need Real, Microsoft, Apple, and etc all coming after you.
<ogra_> but was pointed to here by mdz
<slomo> mako: i for one haven't touched the critical stuff myself ;) my only upload to extras was a clean package by myself which currently waits for inclusion in universe
<Mez> yeah, I was pointed here by mdz
<mako> alright.. 
<Amaranth> And we don't want them coming after you being associated with 'Ubuntu Backports'. :)
<mako> have john dong talk to mdz to figure out what the problem is
<mako> Mez: in the future, please try to have a better idea of exactly what the proposal is
<mako> this has been rather frusterating
<Seveas> moving on..?
<Mez> mako: apologies, I was just working on what was said in the email
<ogra_> mako, even if jdong is the only baclkporter that doesnt work with official people ?
<Amaranth> Seveas: please
<mako> ogra_: well. lets change that and at least get him to delegate
<Amaranth> he is the founder of the project
<ogra_> mako, i'd love to, but he doesnt show up on any official channel
<Amaranth> anything else would be 'forking' the project
<Amaranth> ogra_: he is busy with school
<mako> well, there are a bunch of folks here.. they can get the message to him
<mdke> ogra_, you can just get the dialogue going on the forums and bring him in here
<ogra_> Amaranth, yes, but the tech structure is that he needs to work very tight with the maintainers
<jsgotangco> even an email would get across :(
<ogra_> i dont see that happen
<jsgotangco> that is sad
<mako> if dong is the wr3ong contact, have him delegate to someone else
<\sh> mdke: so whats the problem? if he's reading the forums..5 mins on irc would be enough..I think we have all a life and are bound to some other things..
<mako> this isn't too hard here
<Mez> I think this should be througn TB if anything,
<mako> PLEASE
<mako> lets move on
<Seveas> Next up: my call (Freenode Registration). I have documented it on the wiki, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreenodeRegistrationSpec and am volunteering to do the work it involves. The matter to decide here is whether we want this or not. If it's decided to do this, we need to know cloak titles too.
<mako> we've spent *way* too much time on this already
<mdke> \sh, i agree, i think this problem can get solved by communication. Anyway, next item
<Seveas> And if we can finish quickly, i'd be happy, because I kinda have to go soon :)
<jsgotangco> i like this
<jsgotangco> cloaking would be a good bonus too
<Amaranth> Seveas: This is a good idea. If nothing else it's another perk for joining.
<Seveas> Kamion already expresses his opinion that staff/developers distinction might be bad, so you can skip that part of the spec
<mako> ok
* siretart has to leave now, sorry folks!
<siretart> bye!
<mako> i agree with kamion
<mako> my feeling is that we should have ubuntite and member
<mako> and that's it
<Seveas> mako, ack
<sivang> mako: I'm not listed as an ubuntu member in launchpad, do I Have to go another approval before ? 
<Nafallo> bye siretart 
<\sh> cu siretart 
<slomo> by siretart
<mako> sivang: no
<Seveas> sivang, no just poke mako after the meeting 
<sivang> Seveas: k, cool :-)
<Seveas> mako, no developer?
<mdke> sivang, most of us are not approved in that group, don't worry
<bddebian> Bye siretart
<mako> Seveas: no
<Amaranth> all developers are members anyway
<mdke> i like ubuntite and member too, too many labels are bad
<sistpoty> cya siretart 
<mako> i don't want to create a hierarchy where technical contributions are seen as more valid
<Seveas> ok
<mako> or more valuable
<Seveas> good point
<\sh> i think we should accomplish the view of ubuntu just like it is..there is no difference between members/devs/staff in a public point of view
<mdke> mako, ++ :)
<jsgotangco> nice
<mako> a good translator is just an important a contributor as an uploader
<mdke> that is the Ubuntu spirit
<kinjoo> mako: feel free to skip my agenda item (marketing efforts). I have to go soon. Next meeting will be fine!
<mako> so ubuntite and member
<kinjoo> SO all you guys can go home, too.
<Amaranth> Seveas: You realize you're going to have a fair bit of work at first, right?
<mako> kinjoo: cool.. thanks for hanging out this long
<Seveas> ok, so does the CC want this, and if so, is it ok if I do the work in the beginning?
* mako is happy with the proposal with that addendum
<comadreja> what about the other items in the agenda ?
<Seveas> Amaranth, yes
<jsgotangco> too bad i wanted the marketing stuff...
<mako> please go ahead Seveas 
<mako> Kamion, elmo ?
<Amaranth> Seveas: Be aware that you'll probably be waiting 4+ months on this.
<ogra_> Seveas, just dont miss any channels ;)
<elmo> I'm not thrilled by use of anything.ubuntu masks
<elmo> as the behaviour of anyone using those masks _in any channel_ then reflects on us
<elmo> but *shrug*
<ogra_> elmo, i think sabdfl agreed to lilo about it last TB ...
<kbrooks> elmo: I agree.
<Mez> actually, it was last CC
<\sh> elmo++
<sivang> elmo: true
<ogra_> err, yes, CC
<mdke> interesting point
<Seveas> elmo, I tend to agree, but members have to sign the CoC
<Seveas> and members are the Good Guys (imo) :)
<elmo> Seveas: that relates to Ubuntu, not #random
<Mez> good point Seveas, as do ubuntites
<sivang> Seveas: that doesn't mean they cannot go wild once they signed it
<kbrooks> Seveas: what if members don't follow the COC?
<\sh> Seveas: it has something to do with: putting someone with *ubuntu mask on a horse...
<mdke> it happens...
<Seveas> sivang, ack, but membership and cloaks can be revoked
<sivang> Seveas: sure
<kbrooks> sivang: sure, but....
<Seveas> it happens with and without cloaks, I don't see too much difference
<Amaranth> how would you know?
<kbrooks> having to do that reflects badly on us
<mako> i don't particularly see the value
<Kamion> Seveas: I think that'd in practice be fairly difficult to do given the rather ephemeral nature of IRC arguments
<ogra_> guys, i think we already discussed pro/contra cloaking....
<sivang> mako++
<smurfix> it's a potential trade-off but I still think we should do it.
<Kamion> Seveas: and people wouldn't bother to report it to us, they'd just think "oh, those Ubuntu guys are arseholes"
<Amaranth> If someone is in ##php with a user.ubuntu hostmask and is being a prat how are you going to find out?
<sivang> Kamion: exactly
<\sh> gentlemen...i have to leave...sorry..
<mako> i have no intention to get a cloak.. but i understand others want it
<\sh> ogra has my voice and vote
<sivang> later \sh 
<\sh> bbl
<ogra_> mako, freenode wants it
<Amaranth> bye \sh 
<bddebian> Bye \sh
<kbrooks> Amaranth: yeah
<Amaranth> freenode wants a group contact
<jsgotangco> i dont have much useof it on my side either but if its offered, let's grab it
<Amaranth> there is a difference
<ogra_> mako, as discussed to an extet last meeting
<ogra_> extent
<Seveas> If *.ubuntu causes problems this will get reported to freenode staff usually and they have the group contact to talk to
<mdke> will it become a status symbol?
<Seveas> And quite frankly I think you are looking at it too optimistic
<mako> cool
<Seveas> ehm
<jsgotangco> mdke: it might
<smurfix> ogra_: what freenode wants should be of somewhat secondary importance
<Seveas> pessimistic I mean
<mako> mdke: it becomes an additional perk of membership
<Nafallo> mdke: not more than @ubuntu.com 
<Nafallo> IMO
<ogra_> smurfix, but whatwe agreed about doesnt need to get discussed again
<Seveas> Nafallo, agreed
<smurfix> ogra_: agreed
<mdke> Nafallo, agreed, they might both become status symbols
<Kamion> mako: I don't think I'd want anyone as a member who was joining just for the cloak
<Mez> Nafallo, but @ubuntu.com isnt in place yet :P
<Nafallo> Mez: it will be... some day :-)
<ogra_> Nafallo, that depends on launchpad...
<mdke> Kamion, i think that might be a danger
<Mez> I think that having the cloak (and email) is a good way of promoting ubuntu :d
<Seveas> Kamion, /me neither and that doesn't happen too: there have to be contributions before applying
<sivang> Kamion: but members have to proove themselves before being approved as ones
<Nafallo> ogra_: yea, I know :-)
<mako> Kamion: if they were making major contributions in order to get and maintain it, i don't think it bothers me too much :)
<Kamion> they just have to get enough people to cheerlead for them </cynical>
* sivang wishes the emails were already available
<Seveas> lol :)
<bddebian> Kamion: :-)
<Kamion> sorry, bitter ;-)
<mdke> hehe
<sistpoty> hrhr
<ogra_> Kamion, should we rework this process ?
<Mez> Kamion: we'd cheerlead for you - but there's nothing to cheerlead you for :d (until they decide to change who's on CC)
<sivang> Kamion: I didn't get no one cheerleading for me :-)
<mako> ogra_: quite possible.. althougght later
* bddebian cheers for sivang
<ogra_> yep
<Kamion> Mez: please don't. :-)
<sivang> thanks bddebian :-)
* mako is happy to approve Seveas's proposal for members and members onnly
<mako> Kamion, elmo: y/n/notnow
<Mez> mako +1
<ogra_> ogra too
<Seveas> mako, so not ubuntites even
<sivang> mako++
* Seveas +1's on that
<Nafallo> mako++
<mdke> ok
<mako> Seveas: not at first.. 
<jsgotangco> errmm point of order?
<Mez> I dont think ubuntites should have, cause theyn they'll be using it as a status symbol :d
<Mez> but members have to prove themselves first
<Amaranth> I know of a couple people who are great help in #ubuntu but not members but that can be fixed from this end.
<mako> please people
<Seveas> Kamion, elmo, approval/disapproval?
<kolcvk> i've started the translation of gstreamer but it says that i'm not an official translator ..
<mako> we are 2 hours into this.
<Amaranth> I was just saying I don't think ubuntites is a good idea
<elmo> Seveas: dude, with all due respect, AWTY-ing is not overly useful
<mdke> kolcvk, this is not the right channel
<Seveas> elmo, hm?
<Amaranth> ok, is this decided?
<jsgotangco> (yeah i have work in 5 hours)
<elmo> Seveas: mako already asked us
<elmo> Seveas: you asking 2 minutes later isn't helpful
<ogra_> kolcvk, #launchpad
<Seveas> hmm, sorry, missed that :(
<Kamion> Seveas: the sheer painful duration of CC meetings means we have to be doing other things at the same time
* bddebian hands Kamion a sedative ;-)
<elmo> IMO, the registration part is fine and we should do it - I'm still not convinced by the cloaking stuff - I don't see any real advantages, and real potential problems - but I'm willing to be overrules on that
<comadreja> there should be more and shorter meetings
* ed1t pokes bddebian 
<Kamion> mako: I'm reasonably OK with it for just members (I have concerns, but I guess we can revisit them if they become real problems); I agree that we shouldn't be just handing out cloaks to anyone who self-identifies as an Ubuntite
<Kamion> mako: registration seems obviously reasonable
<mako> Kamion: agreed
<jsgotangco> +1 on registration, details on that will come later
<Mez> elmo: but the same potential problems would be with ahving @ubuntu.com email addresses - and that's already agreed upon (once the structure is in place)
<Seveas> ok, I'll start up the process then, thank you for your patience
<mako> Seveas: go ahead with registration and a luke-warm support for cloaks for members
<mdke> thanks for your work Seveas 
<mako> ok.. 
<Kamion> I think people are more likely to be arseholes on IRC than in e-mail in practice ...
<Kamion> but we'll see how it goes
<Amaranth> It doesn't matter if we don't decide on cloaks right now, getting the group registration done will take a _long_ time.
<mako> Seveas: yes.. thanks for your help
<mako> so.. 
<elmo> mez: people are far less likely to abuse email IME, and when they do, it's far less of an ephemeral thing to deal with
<mako> kinjoo deferred
<jsgotangco> poor kinjoo
<tritium> Seveas, let me know if I can help with any of that.
<jsgotangco> let's put him on top of agenda next cc meeting
<ogra_> mako, member candidates that needed to show up again ?
<mako> comadreja
<mako> comadreja:
<comadreja> me
<ogra_> yeah
<comadreja> the text ?
<ogra_> comadreja, tell us about you 
<mako> Jorge Daza
<comadreja> it's hard to explain in three lines...
<sivang> how often CC meetings are held these days?
<comadreja> Solving bugs, packaging, helping somehow. Hard  to say without the wiki. I'm planning to do more
<comadreja> developing, I'm very interested on that as I'm a developer myselft. I'm willing (I enjoy) to keep on using my
<comadreja> spare time on that. I see Ubuntu, as the best distribution at the moment, and I'd like to make it even better.
<mdke> sivang, every 2 weeks
<comadreja> thanks for giving me a minute, btw
* mako looks at the wiki page
<ogra_> comadreja is around in -motu regulary and recently brought us the new kismet package :)
<ogra_> he also solved a bunch of bugs and packaged/fixed packages already
<ogra_> so this is a +1 here from my side
<comadreja> I'm registered also in launchpad
<comadreja> I signed the CoC
<comadreja> I'm a member of the ubuntu gnome team...
<mako> alrighyt
<ogra_> MOTUness will depend on him convincing his wife to ubuntu :)
<comadreja> don't know, been quite busy with ubuntu lately
<ogra_> but membership is fine with me :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<comadreja> Can't be she uses yahoo messenger's voice thingy
<comadreja> Wine refuses to run it
<mako> alright.. these contributions seems quite good
<ogra_> comadreja, also the new wine pckages we have now ?
<mako> i'm happy approving comadreja for membership
<comadreja> haven't tested the new ones
<mako> elmo, Kamion: ?
<comadreja> no so much cheerleading this time :)
* ogra_ cheers for comadreja 
<comadreja> people must be tired :D after all this time
<elmo> ack
<seth_k> I've noticed comadreja in -motu a lot; he is always very helpful and knowledgable
* sivang cheers comadreja 
<ogra_> comadreja, nope, they are just to impressed by your wikipage to speak ;)
* Kamion locates the wiki page; ack
<mdke> nice work comadreja, welcome
<ogra_> welcom comadreja then :)
<comadreja> they haven't voted yet, have they ?
<mdke> yes
<ogra_> comadreja, they have aked
<ogra_> acked
<comadreja> oh, cool
<comadreja> thanks !
<bddebian> comadreja is who?
<comadreja> JorgeDaza
<bddebian> Ah, thx
<ogra_> next !
<ogra_> mako ?
<comadreja> really thanks ! :)
<Amaranth> so...is the next thing figuring out when the next meeting is?
<slomo> comadreja: hehe, i've overseen elmo's vote for me at first, too ;) btw... welcome :)
<smurfix> slomo: overlooked ;-)
<mako> alright
<ogra_> mako, bddebian ?
<bddebian> ogra_: Aye?
<mako> bddebian ?
<slomo> smurfix: thanks ;) *currently improving my english skills*
<mako> one more person
<ogra_> bddebian, do your introduction....
<bddebian> Ah.  BarrydeFreese.  And as with last time, I don't necessarily expect induction but here goes:
<bddebian> What I've Done:  Joined NuN and began trying to help in #ubuntu.  Started working on UniverseUnmetDeps.  Updated python-pyrtf for tritium (on REVU). Correct ogra's English.  Still amuse ogra? :-)
<bddebian> What I plan to do:  Like to eventually become MOTU.  Still want to produce an Ubuntu based GNU/Hurd.  Will most likely try to start a USPALoCo team.  Also want to get a PPC back up and going. Generally help out wherever I can.
<bddebian> Idea and future:  If I make it to MOTU, I would like to get a better handle on packages brought into Universe and such.  For example many of the zope-* packages haven't had upstream updates in over 4 years and have very few downloads.  Is it worth spending the effort to fix or to even have it in the repos?
<bddebian> Oh yeah, and maybe make a better wiki for myself. ;-)
<ogra_> +1 from me for teaching me grammar.... (and a bit for the packages he touched already)
<ogra_> ;)
<sivang> bddebian: I can help with that, I already have one happy customer - tseng :-)
<bddebian> sivang: Thx
<Mez> +1 for IRC based support
<sivang> bddebian +1 for me knowing him back then form debian, and being very helpful with all sorts of debian questions.
<Kamion> bddebian: at some point I need to hook up with you/somebody and do Hurd installer hacking
<tritium> bddebian, has done a great job in updating packages for me in my absence
<Kamion> (in today's "insane" category)
<ogra_> Kamion, ubuntu hurd ? :)
<bddebian> Kamion: I'm game.  I wanna set up an FTP box and buildd but I am considering moving jobs so I have been holding off :-(
<mako> Kamion: is that a position?
<Amaranth> ogra_: Ubuntu GNU
<Kamion> mako: hmm?
<mako> Kamion: is that an approval?
<ogra_> Kamion, we're waiting for a ack or nack :)
<Kamion> ogra_: in all seriousness it's not remotely ready yet; I found that while hacking on installer stuff for it
<Kamion> oh, yeah, ack bddebian
<ogra_> Kamion, next year, for sure *g*
<mako> elmo: bddebian ?
<bddebian> Oh man and I made a crack about Elmo's World.. :)
<sivang> lol
<elmo> ack
<ogra_> yay bddebian 
<Amaranth> yay
<mdke> nice work bddebian 
<Amaranth> bddebian: You're my official 'orga translator'.
<Mez> congrats
<bddebian> Wow, thanks folks.
<bddebian> Amaranth: :-)
<ogra_> finally someone who cares about my grammar all the time
<Amaranth> er, ogra_ 
* Amaranth needs to sleep soon
<sivang> ogra_: not that bad as I see it :-)
<bddebian> No, definetly not bad
<ogra_> sivang, but sometimes i need correction :)
<mako> alright
<mako> next meeting is two weeks from today
<mako> august 2nd
* sivang wants to express his joyfulness for attending a partial CC meeting
<ogra_> thanks mako 
<comadreja> thanks all
<mako> at say, UTC20?
<Kamion> works for me
<Nafallo> hehe. I hope I can get my girlfriend to be a member by then ;-)
<sivang> mako: could be good
<ogra_> sounds good
<mako> ok.. sounds good
<comadreja> much better
<Amaranth> works here
<mako> see you all later
<mdke> thanks mako
* mako hits the gavel
<Nafallo> works for us :-)
<ogra_> have a nice time in nl mako 
* |rockinnerd| wants to thank every1 for letting him stay thru part of the meeting
<bddebian> Thanks again folks
<Amaranth> mako: Can I PM you about my key?
<Nafallo> thanx all :-)
<nalioth> Amaranth: why not in channel? i have a key question, also
<Amaranth> ok
<Amaranth> well, basically, i still don't have it signed
<nalioth> Amaranth: and your key question may answer my key question
* seth_k too
<slomo> thanks all :) btw, mako? is my signed CoC in launchpad ok for membership?
<sivang> mako: I just also would like to ask about my membership status in launchapd...that's all :-)
<Amaranth> mako: You said there was an alternative method of getting my CoC signed?
<nalioth> sivang: mako stated earlier that he is behind on housekeeping at launchpad
<sivang> nalioth: ah ok
<nalioth> Amaranth: find a notary, with a copy of your passport/drivers license and key fingerprint
<nalioth> Amaranth: you can send the notarized copy to me or make or whomever
<Amaranth> ok
<Amaranth> I guess I'm not going to be a MOTU though. :/
<nalioth> Amaranth: it won't be "careful checking" but it will be signed
<Amaranth> oh, you mean my gpg key
* Amaranth is half asleep
<Amaranth> S!2 signed or whatever?
<nalioth> Amaranth: whatever the level is (i dont know all!that fanciness
<seth_k> yes, S!2
<Amaranth> ok
<seth_k> nalioth, S! is "no answer" S!1 is no checking, S!2 is some checking, S!3 is careful checking
<nalioth> i take it S!1 is "careful checking"?
<Amaranth> yep
<Amaranth> and i'll be able to be in MOTU and all that with this?
<seth_k> not with nalioth's !2 methinks
* mako is off to make dinner
<ogra_> Amaranth, http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?STAT=A2D06936&STATS=statistics
<seth_k> I think you need 3 marginals or 1 careful
<ogra_> Amaranth, if you can get *any* path to me your key is fine
<nalioth> Amaranth: so mail copies to bunches of people
<Amaranth> ogra_: I cannot get any path to anyone that's not S!2.
<Amaranth> nalioth: ok
<ogra_> nalioth, mailing doesnt work
<ogra_> nalioth, you need to meet in person....
<Amaranth> If I can't be MOTU with this I won't even bother.
<nalioth> ogra_: so i am confused, then. where does the notary and copies come in?
<\sh> re
<ogra_> nalioth, ah, sanilmail is something else
<Amaranth> I thought the whole point was that the notary verifies your identity and then you fax/mail that to someone.
<nalioth> ogra_: yes, that is what we are discussing
<ogra_> nalioth, i thought you seak about email
<ogra_> sorry
<nalioth> Amaranth: you can mail to me, if you wish
<ogra_> Amaranth, right... i was mislead
<Amaranth> ok, so how many of these to i need?
<ogra_> Amaranth, 1
<Amaranth> nalioth: you can get me to ogra_?
<ogra_> nalioth, whats your id ?
<nalioth> hang on
<nalioth> F0EE0D7C
<ogra_> nalioth, is it uploaded already ?
<ogra_> (it needs to be on a keyserver to mak a trustpath)
<nalioth> ogra_: yes to the us servers
<ogra_> nalioth, when ? they all get mirrored regulary
<nalioth> <1 week ago
<ogra_> nalioth, hmm
<ogra_> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=A2D06936&TO=F0EE0D7C&PATHS=trust+paths
<ogra_> doesnt look like it already is around... weird
<nalioth> i upped to the US servers and some1 in -nun found it there
<seth_k> i found it in the US server
<ogra_> nalioth, seems the us server doesnt get mirrored into the stron set or something... hmm
<nalioth> well let me up it to another one, any suggestions?
<ogra_> http://pki.surfnet.nl/submit.html
<ogra_> thats what the error page shows on the trustpath server ...
<ogra_> so try it there
<ogra_> many people in ubuntu use this tool... so you should be fine with this server
<seth_k> mako sure runs away quickly... /me hopes he replies to my e-mail
<nalioth> seth_k: don't hold your breath
<ogra_> seth_k, mako is traveling a lot currently...
<ogra_> seth_k, which always distracts a bit from mail reading ;)
<seth_k> yep, indeed
<ogra_> and given that mako is likely to recieve more then the 400 mails/day i get....
<Amaranth> he said he had < 1000 to read on the lists alone
<Amaranth> err, > 1000
<kbrooks> meeting done?
<ogra_> kbrooks, yes
<nalioth> ok i'm having a case of the dumbass, how do i create an armored key?
<seth_k> -a
<Amaranth> --armor?
<seth_k> so like gpg --export-keys -a you@domain.com
<seth_k> --armor works too
<kbrooks> meeting done? anyone know?
<seth_k> and to a file, do gpg --export-keys -a you > blah.asc
<comadreja> what is the strength a key has to have ?
<nalioth> --export-keys invalid option
<ogra_> comadreja, must be signed by one in the strong set
<seth_k> sorry, just export
<comadreja> ogra_ I meant in bits
<seth_k> comadreja, use a 1024/2048 key methinks. Everybody else does
<comadreja> ogra_ ok
<comadreja> ogra_ btw, the strongh set, anyone is biglumber is in the strong set ?
<comadreja> ogra_ there are some people from madrid
<ogra_> nope, anyone who is signed and uploaded on a keyserver... if you can find a trustpath (of any lenght) to a ubuntu maintainer, you should be fine
<nalioth> ok uploaded to the .nl site you sent
<ogra_> hmm, might take some time until its registered... i still get an error
<Amaranth> everyone in biglumber is supposed to be in the strong set
<Amaranth> and that trustpath site hasn't updated since the 10th
<Mez> Amaranth, not neccesarily, they juts want to sign :d
<Mez> but MOST people are in the strong set
<Amaranth> o_O
<comadreja> my key is already registered in a keyserver...
<ogra_> comadreja, id ?
<nalioth> seth_k: what site did you find my key on? (and it's trail of ink?)
<comadreja> 5D7ACDEF
<seth_k> nalioth, wwwkeys.us.pgp.net methinks
<ogra_> comadreja, hmm, unsigned..
<comadreja> ogra_ remotely signing is not possible right ?
<ogra_> comadreja, nope
<comadreja> ogra_ even if I send passport or something alike ?
<comadreja> copies, of course
<comadreja> :)
<Amaranth> S!2 signing is possible with a notorized letter, but not preferred
<nalioth> comadreja: yes, it is, if you get a notary and have them notarize a copy of your passport and fingerprint
<ogra_> comadreja, that works... we have a notary process for that
<Amaranth> that's only if you have no other way
<comadreja> I'll find another way
<ogra_> nalioth, i found your key, it isnt singed yet
<nalioth> but as mentioned, it's not as 'strong' as doing lunch
<ogra_> http://pgp.surfnet.nl:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0xF0EE0D7C
<ogra_> nalioth, so there cant be a trustpath yet...
<Amaranth> nalioth: You're not signed? :/
<ogra_> oh, it s signed... but by someone who isnt signed either
<nalioth> Amaranth: i am signed, just can't seem to get the key propagated
<nalioth> ogra_: not so, the guy has may sigs on his key (most of em debian devs)
<ogra_> nalioth, i see... i can get a path to him but not to you...
<ogra_> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=A2D06936&TO=560553E7&PATHS=trust+paths
<nalioth> perhaps he hasnt signed yet, or his key i signed is on the US server?
<ogra_> ^^^^ but thats how it should look like if a key is in the strong set
* nalioth is confused easily with this gpg stuff
<ogra_> nalioth, he has signed, his key is appearing at your ring...
<Amaranth> bustage
<ogra_> ok, anyways, i need a typing break
* nalioth is confused
<Amaranth> so nalioth will eventually be able to get me to you
<nalioth> mez found my key and the guy who signed could be traced back to Mez 
<ogra_> Mez, might be a delay in propagating it...
<ogra_> err nalioth ^^^
<smurfix> ogra_: Lately I've seen signature propagation times that were nearly instantaneous
<nalioth> so which server should i upload to in the future? i plan on traveling around and getting sigs from various users
<smurfix> maybe re-upload both keys to a different server?
<ogra_> smurfix, ah, that might it be then
<smurfix> nalioth: I usually use subkeys.pgp.net
<nalioth> did the .nl server get it?
<nalioth> smurfix: ok. add that to my gpgrc or something?
<ogra_> smurfix, my key is propagated anywhere, nalioth just uploaded additionally to the .nl server
<smurfix> .gnupg/gpg.conf:keyserver subkeys.pgp.net
<nalioth> ty
<ogra_> nalioth, i guess its just delay... dont worry, the sign you have is very strong
<nalioth> Amaranth: guess you can do the post thing then, if ya want
<elmo> (btw you can use keyserver.ubuntu.com these days)
<Amaranth> nalioth: got a fax machine? :)
<nalioth> Amaranth: nope, but i can access one
<Amaranth> i could probably get it faxed this weekend
* Amaranth goes to lunch
<nalioth> well i'll just upload to the 2 keyservers recently mentioned in here
<nalioth> and we'll see
<nalioth> y'all can find me in #ubuntu, or -nun
<nalioth> ciao
<Mez> ogra_, "his key appears in your ring" ??? 
<Mez> ow
* bddebian is the KEY MASTER
<bddebian> :-)
<ogra_> Mez, nalioths keyring: http://pgp.surfnet.nl:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0xF0EE0D7C
<ogra_> there is one signature
<Mez> yeah :D 
<Mez> I know
<Mez> I was just commenting on your choice of words
<bddebian> hehe
<Mez> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=A2D06936&TO=6AAAA569&PATHS=trust+paths
<Seveas> bddebian, there?
<bddebian> Aye
<Seveas> hi :)
<Seveas> I missed the last part of the meeting
<bddebian> Hello
<Seveas> did your application get covered?
<bddebian> Seveas: Yes, thank you
<Seveas> ok
<Seveas> you got accepted?
<Mez> yes
<Seveas> nice :)
<Seveas> final question: new date is Aug 2 22:00 UTC?
<bddebian> Seveas: I think so :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Fri July 22 20:00 UTC NUN -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || Tue 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu July 28 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 2 Aug 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<ogra_> Seveas, 20:00
<sladen> win 38
<kbrooks> 2:00 
<kbrooks> no
<kbrooks> 12:00
<kbrooks> :| thats lunch
<ogra_> <mako> august 2nd
<ogra_> * sivang wants to express his joyfulness for attending a partial CC meeting
<ogra_> <ogra_> thanks mako 
<ogra_> <comadreja> thanks all
<ogra_> <mako> at say, UTC20?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ogra_] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Fri July 22 20:00 UTC NUN -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || Tue 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu July 28 14:00 UTC Documentation Team -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || Tue 2 Aug 20:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<tseng> bye
<kbrooks> :)
<Seveas> 20:00?
<Seveas> nice :)
<Seveas> that means no midnight meetings
<Mez> :P
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-17
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<imbrandon_> @schedule us/central
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 17 Jul 14:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 14:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team
<rraphink> @schedule paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu | 17 Jul 21:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team
<imbrandon> @schedule us/central
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 17 Jul 14:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 14:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 17 Jul 08:00: Kubuntu | 17 Jul 14:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 14:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team
<imbrandon> dodo same timezone ;)
<nixternal> i just popped in knuckle head 
<imbrandon> oh yea lol
<nixternal> i haven't been up this early in 10 years
<imbrandon> lol
<[Nirvana] > @schedule Toronto
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 17 Jul 09:00: Kubuntu | 17 Jul 15:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 19:30 UTC: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team
<Tonio_> hey
<[Nirvana] > hello
<nixternal> hiya Tonio_
<Tonio_> heya nixternal
<[Nirvana] > nixternal: btw: thanks to your /leave msg, I know about #ubuntu-classroom, and I'm going to refer people, I'd just like to say thanks
<nixternal> heh [Nirvana] , i appreciate the support on that one. i just did a brief marketing campaign for those guys, and it seemed to work pretty well..we are getting more and more responses each day now
<nixternal> hiya kwwii
<Tonio_> hey kwwii
<kwwii> hi all
<rraphink> hi guys
<imbrandon> moins all
* rraphink is at work but will try to be there ;)
<Hobbsee> okay...hi everyone
<Riddell> hi all
<rraphink> hi Riddell
<gnomefreak> hi
<rraphink> hi Hobbsee
<imbrandon> hey Riddell
<Hobbsee> hi rraphink, Riddell, gnomefreak, imbrandon 
<mikix> hi everybody
<gnomefreak> hi Hobbsee ;)
<Riddell> lets start with names so we know who's here
<Hobbsee> hi mikix 
* Riddell is Jonathan Riddell
* Hobbsee is Sarah Hobbs
* rraphink is Raphael Pinson
* seaLne is Kenny Duffus
* gnomefreak John Vivirito
* nixternal is Rich Johnson
* OculusAquilae is Bastian Holst
* mindspin is markus wimmer
* imbrandon is Brandon Holtsclaw
* Tonio_ is Anthony Mercatante
* kwwii is Kenneth Wimer
<Riddell> good turnout :)
* allee is Achim Bohnet
<Riddell> anyone here for membership?
<allee> hmm, no toma.  I jabber him
<Hobbsee> Riddell: very, yeah.  i'd liked to have seen lure and jjesse too...
<imbrandon> Riddell, looks like 
<imbrandon> #
<Hobbsee> we have quorum, good.
<imbrandon> RichJohnson aka nixternal
<Hobbsee> Riddell: nixternal's a special case - the first two people on the CC ack'd him, and they were waiting on mako...and waiting...and waiting..
<Riddell> anyone know Andrej, Jay M. Mapalo, Rafael Proena, or rouzic?
<rraphink> ah right
<rraphink> Riddell: many of them have no wiki page
<nixternal> heh, sorry, was getting coffee... Hobbsee, i'm always a special case 
<Hobbsee> Riddell: nope
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> Riddell, not i
<allee> Riddell: no
<gnomefreak> me neither
<Riddell> I should probably e-mail them and ask why they signed up, they could well be involved with something we're not in contact with like translations
<Riddell> we should do nixternal then
<rraphink> translations you can see on LP
<Riddell> nixternal: care to introduce yourself?
<nixternal> heh, ok...here we go!!!
<Hobbsee> Riddell: yeah, then lets to artwork, and doco if jjesse makes it, then discuss anythign else
* nixternal is Rich Johnson, 32 years old, Chicago Illinois, US....Sys Admin by trade
<Hobbsee> nixternal: please tell me your intro has been shortened....
<rraphink> hehe
<nixternal> i work with the doc team, wiki team, marketing team...do bug triage, support stuff, forums, irc, bug you guys...and just had my first packaged uploaded this week
<nixternal> short enough Hobbsee?
<nixternal> 
<Hobbsee> nixternal: launchpad page link :P
<imbrandon> wiki page ?
<nixternal> you caught me offguard, so i didn't get to c/p my other one 
<Riddell> nixternal: you're doing the switching from windows doc right?
<nixternal> https://launchpad.net/people/nixternal
<nixternal> yes Riddell
<Riddell> nixternal: how's that going?
<nixternal> it is just starting right now...we have the base down, and now we are in the process of gathering content
<Riddell> I'm looking forward to it
<nixternal> there could very well end up being various versions as the community excitement is quite high for the documentation
<nixternal> as i am
<rraphink> nixternal: how are you related to Kubuntu in particular?
<rraphink> (I mean vs. Ubuntu in general)
<Hobbsee> with the new user config tool, mentioned in your wiki page, may i mention that the way amarok handles mp3 support is *very* clever.  right now, it's broken, but i have a fix that i'm going to test soon on my hard drive.
<nixternal> i support mainly kubuntu since all i have really used is kde for years...i am helping jjesse with all of the kubuntu documentation
<rraphink> ok
<nixternal> i am picking up the packaging aspect with the help of Hobbsee and imbrandon
* imbrandon notes for everyone nixternal is the founder of the Chicago LoCo team and active in the Bug Squad / Laptop Testing / Documentation and IRC
<nixternal> im gettin' ready to go back to school to knock the programming rust off, since i decided to change fields about 10 years ago and quit programming
<gnomefreak> and marketing
* Hobbsee looks.  specs are *way* too high for karma!
<mindspin> and he is one of the few kubuntu guys in the marketing team
<nixternal> oooh..gnomefreak, if jenda seen i introduced myself and didn't say i was part of the marketing team i would never hear the end of it  thanks
<Riddell> we have a marketing team? cool
<nixternal> ya Riddell 
<rraphink> :)
<gnomefreak> yw nixternal 
<toma> vote++
<rraphink> sounds very nice
<Tonio_> did knew this ! sounds nice
<gnomefreak> yep ;)
<allee> anyone that worked directly with nixternal?  comments?
<nixternal> plus the classroom
<gnomefreak> hes alsoa  big part of NuN
<rraphink> nixternal: is the classroom related to the MOTU school anyhow?
<nixternal> in the forums helping out...both ubuntu and kubuntu of course
<[Nirvana] > He's a member of Kubuntuforums.net, good guy
<nixternal> no rraphink..it is the NewUserNetwork
<imbrandon> allee, i work with him alot, he is very active on irc helping and learing packaing 
<[Nirvana] > and a damn fast typer... jeez
<nixternal> heh
<gnomefreak> i think hes doing great in every team he is a part in
<nixternal> 150+ wpm
<rraphink> :)
<Hobbsee> allee: yeah, i've worked with him, sometimes poking him to do various bits of documentation, and helping him out with packaging
<nixternal> and chasing with the big pointy stick 
<Riddell> so lets vote
<allee> Hobbsee: don't steal too much time from him documentation writing time ;)
<Tonielmo> ack
<Hobbsee> nixternal: well...
<rraphink> +1
<Riddell> toma: want to go first? :)
<Hobbsee> +1
<rraphink> Tonio_: lol
<Tonio_> raphink: ^^ I promissed to do it one day :)
<rraphink> Tonio_: hehe :)
<Riddell> +1 from me
<Tonio_> +1 for me based on jjesse feedback, since I discussed a lot with him concerning the docs a few weeks ago
<Riddell> welcome to kubuntu membership nixternal 
<toma> +1
* allee +1 for nixternal.
<nixternal> ty very much guys!!!!  you all rock!!!!
<Tonio_> nixternal: welcome aboard
<imbrandon> congrats nixternal ;)
<nixternal> thank you!!!
<gnomefreak> congrats nixternal 
<rraphink> welcome nixternal :)
* nixternal feels special!!!
<[Nirvana] > congrats
<nixternal> lol
<Riddell> nixternal: I'll do the tick box thing after the meeting, poke me if I forget
<allee> well that was an easy choice
<Hobbsee> :)
<kwwii> get to work nixternal :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<nixternal> gahah
<nixternal> will do
<rraphink> kwwii: haha
<allee> congrats nixternal 
<Hobbsee> kwwii: artwork status update?
<Riddell> Hobbsee suggested we go with an artwork update
<nixternal> after the meeting of course
<Hobbsee> seeing as you've just said that?
<nixternal> thank you everyone
<kwwii> ok, really quickly:
* omeow wonders if someone ever got rejected.
<Riddell> omeow: yes
<Hobbsee> kwwii: i like the current usplash :P
<kwwii> until now we have specs which say that we are replacing the usplash, KDM, Desktop splash and Wallpaper.
<imbrandon> omeow, yes
<Hobbsee> omeow: yeah, last meeting, actually
<nixternal> yes omeow, tis why i waited a while 
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir 
<kwwii> I think we should also think about changing the app-start page for konqi as well as the help center.
<rraphink> Hobbsee: I think the current usplash is not kwwii's
<Hobbsee> ah
<Mithrandir> hi again, Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> whoever's it is
<kwwii> Hobbsee: no, it is mine
<Hobbsee> ah :)
<rraphink> kwwii: like my wallpaper ? :)=
* Hobbsee only installed edgy today - give her a break!
<Riddell> kwwii: my slight concern with that is we'd be diverging from the KDE stuff a bit
<kwwii> ahhh, actually I haven't checked edgy yet
<kwwii> Riddell: so let's change the KDE stuff too
<imbrandon> and the default window deco , crystal is ugly imo ;)
<Riddell> kwwii: also the app-start page for konqi should in theory be mirrored in kontact, kmail, kcontrol, akgregator and kbabel
<kwwii> imbrandon: good point, I have an update for that too
<kwwii> Riddell: yepp, I know
<allee> imbrandon: what's ugly is up to the artits to decide ;)
<kwwii> we would need to do them all
<imbrandon> allee, yea ;)
<kwwii> that is why I am asking here instead of just barging ahead as normal
<allee> imbrandon: and we tell them if it's usable and acceptable ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i didnt think crystal was the current window deco, was it?  i thought that was polyester
<kwwii> so what does everyone think about that?
<imbrandon> Riddell, whats wrong with diverging form kde as far as artwork ( k-d-s ) ?
* Hobbsee grabs a drink, and tries to make sense of all this.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, not in edgy
<imbrandon> leaste not yet
<allee> kwwii: consistent artwork is good to have
<Riddell> imbrandon: I've always positioned kubuntu a being close to KDE from an artwork view
<Riddell> but if kwwii can come up with some rocking design then lets do it
<imbrandon> allee, consistant with whom though, if we are taketing switchovers from windows or kde ?
<allee> kwwii: but IMHO comon icons/themes first, then app specific stuff
* gnomefreak likes the wallpaper (simple and nice) in edgy kubuntu
<kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/snapshot3.png shows my desktop with the changes I have made so far
<kwwii> I will still update the buttons
<allee> imbrandon: consistent as 'used in Kubuntu'
<nixternal> heh, and it's purple 
<Hobbsee> kwwii: would you be talking a colour change, etc, or changing the way the buttons are located?
<imbrandon> allee, ahh yes
<Riddell> kwwii: which buttons
<Hobbsee> kwwii: pretty :)
<Riddell> ?
<imbrandon> allee, i agree totaly but i do think the artwork for kubutu shouldent be a clone of every other kde setup out there , i'm not saying the FUNCTION just the artwork
<allee> kwwii: brown folder icons?
<Riddell> I think we're onto a winner with the purple
<kwwii> Hobbsee: check that screenshot and you'll see that I changed the gradients used in the titlebar, the colors, and the window buttons in the titlebar need new pixmaps, as those do not fit
<Hobbsee> :)
<imbrandon> Riddell, the min max close
<[Nirvana] > kubuntu edgy is purple?
* nixternal admits that is a 'nice' shade of purple kwwii
<kwwii> imbrandon: exactly
<Hobbsee> kwwii: right, okay
<Hobbsee> [Nirvana] : yes
<Hobbsee> kwwii: i'm not great on artwork stuff :)
<kwwii> :-)
<Tonio_> I'm not a fan of purple, but that's probably interesting since this color isn't widely used
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: next time suggest pink, mmm kay?
<Hobbsee> :P
<nixternal> just on gentoo
<Tonio_> and since it is kwwii, I'm of course self confident is the result
<kwwii> the good thing is, if I do it right, we could change the purple to blue pretty quickly if things don't work out well
<Tonio_> nixternal: at least it is more original than blue....
<Tonio_> ;)
<mindspin> the brown folders look stragnge to me
<nixternal> oh i totally agree
<gnomefreak> while were ont her topic is there any way to intergrate a "themes changer" so new users can do it without compiling themes?
<nixternal> i actually like it...i said as long as it wasn't 'barney purple'
<[Nirvana] > kinda reminds me of the kubuntu amsn theme
<Hobbsee> kwwii: my personal opinion:  assuming we're discussing colours, etc, i'm fine with it changing to be whatever - but we probably shouldnt change from the kde defaults, unless we have a good reason to
<imbrandon> yea the brown does look a bit strange against the purple
<kwwii> Hobbsee: I totally agree
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: it's there, in system settings.  but system settings is a confusing mess.
<gnomefreak> ah ok
<omeow> Is the kicker going to stay that size by default too?
<Hobbsee> kwwii: cool :)  in fact, in one of my points i'm wanting to revert a couple of changes
<allee> Tonio_: that purple is not used often may have a reason that is not originality
<kwwii> the brown icons are just a test I did when I made that screenshot
<Riddell> omeow: no
<omeow> Ok, good. :)
<kwwii> Hobbsee: like what?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee,  we have a good reason , we;re not kde ;) i do think the artwork for kubutu shouldent be a clone of every other kde setup out there , i'm not saying the FUNCTION just the artwork
<Hobbsee> kwwii: the change to konq that i want to make?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, exactly
<[Nirvana] > um, this may sound silly, but why is the default k menu the K instead of the kubuntu logo?
<kwwii> Hobbsee: if we change the kde stuff as well, and simply use a few different pics for kubuntu that is pretty much the same
<Hobbsee> kwwii: cool :)
<omeow> I don't like the switch user, lock session and log out buttons.
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : because we don't want to hide our KDE-ness
<imbrandon> [Nirvana] , becosue kwwii hasent designed us a uber leet kubuntu button ;)
<allee> imbrandon: we should take the best from KDE and not preplace it just because we want to be different
<omeow> The ones in dapper are nice because they each have a different colour. Making it easy to distinguish.
<[Nirvana] > I saw one around
<[Nirvana] > easyubuntu used to be able to change it to the kubuntu logo
* nixternal wants to see the 'reinhardt' style come back 
<kwwii> we could make a crystal kubuntu logo for use there if there is interest
* Hobbsee reads back to see what kwwii is actually wanting approval over - to play with colours and see what looks good, right?
<allee> imbrandon: and if something is not that good, we should try better and give back so next time it's in KDE
<imbrandon> allee, right, but look at ubuntu branding , they have the logo on the application menu etc i think we should do some of the same 
<freeflying> kwwii: nice, some icons like osx's  :)
<kwwii> oh, and the spinner in konqueror should be improved
<Riddell> Hobbsee: it was the new about:konq and help centre graphics
<kwwii> freeflying: that is the oxygen set we are working on
<mindspin> I agree with omeow concerning the switch user etc. buttons
<Riddell> kwwii: that's rendered from a 3d model, I'd need to dig up the guy who did it
<Hobbsee> Riddell: right, that's what i thought.  we've just gone veering off somehow.
<mindspin> colours would be nice
<Hobbsee> +1 mindspin 
<Riddell> Hobbsee: that happens with artwork
<Hobbsee> Riddell: hehe, true.
<imbrandon> ;)
<kwwii> well, the dapper release was kinda quick, as I started during the UI sprint
* Hobbsee just learned a new way to get back to the first konq screen.  nice!
<Riddell> kwwii: so looking good, new about:konq and help centre should be good too
<Riddell> shall we move on?
<imbrandon> yup
<kwwii> yepp
<Riddell> no jjesse, tsk
<Hobbsee> +1 to moving on
<Hobbsee> Riddell: yeah, he was trying to make it
* allee agrees with Hobbsee 
<Riddell> we should go to the agenda then http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : you're first
<Hobbsee> Riddell: who's chairing?  i added a lot to the agenda :P
<[Nirvana] > whoops sorry
<imbrandon> [Nirvana] , your css stuff
<[Nirvana] > trying
<[Nirvana] > msgs aren't being sent
<Riddell> we can read you here, please introduce it
<[Nirvana] > So yeah, I made like 3-4 css changes to the kubuntu page
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : which one?
<Hobbsee> [Nirvana] : link to it?
<seaLne> is there a working version of http://halovids.buildyourforum.com/x/test.html somewhere?
<Hobbsee> the pastebin link is dead too.
<imbrandon> while we're waiting for [Nirvana]  i think what he is talking aobut can be filed against website-bugs and have the website team change the template if Riddell or whome ever agrees
<[Nirvana] > change buildyourforum to globalnetworld
<[Nirvana] > could be ^
<[Nirvana] > it's a cross, because it's about kubuntu and should use kubuntu colours, but is about the release (http://us.releases.ubuntu.com/releases/kubuntu/6.06/ ) page
<seaLne> yep
<Riddell> http://halovids.globalnetworld.com/x/test.html
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : the icons needs crystalised :)
<[Nirvana] > I didn't change any icons
<Riddell> imbrandon: this isn't the website, it's managed quite differently
<[Nirvana] > just css
<imbrandon> crystal or oxygen ;)
<nixternal> Riddell: i can make a brief statement about kubuntu docs, however i don't know how detailed jjesse was planning
<Riddell> Kamion: how easy is it to have different CSS and icons for the Kubuntu pages on cdimage?
<Hobbsee> that page is quite badly laid out for new users - probably needs a section on what .manifest and .torrent, etc, are
<imbrandon> Riddell, releases no cdimage right ? cdimage is old i think
<Hobbsee> but anyway, that's not a kubuntu issue
<Riddell> imbrandon: cdimage is daily, releases is final things, they both come from the same teamplates
<imbrandon> ahh
<Riddell> [Nirvana] : I've no idea how easy this is, I'll talk to Kamion when he's around and find out, if it's not hard I'll make the changes
<[Nirvana] > what I did was go to the release page (where you download the iso) and saved it with firefox, then  open uo nvu and change some css, I didn't touch any text/icons or anything
<[Nirvana] > the added css is in the source underneath the @imports
<kwwii> guess we should use our own icons for that page too, or?
<Riddell> kwwii: ideally yes
<Riddell> but it's not the most important thing in the world, I'll only do it if it's easy
<Hobbsee> [Nirvana] : the "comment" on your next agenda item is  this?  Burning a VCD from AVI files is even trickier. In very broad strokes, youll need to install K3b, a CD burning program, and a package called VCDimager, and tell K3b where its located. Youll also need a command-line program called FFmpeg to convert AVI files to MPG, which is the format that K3b uses. Sounds complicated? It is, but its doable.
<kwwii> then let's dig those up from crystal, if it is technically possible
<Hobbsee> [Nirvana] : would be good if you'd listed which bit you wanted to talk about in the agenda, FYI
<Kamion> Riddell: not particularly hard, file a bug on /products/ubuntu-cdimage with what you want changed
<Riddell> Kamion: ok, cool
<Kamion> Riddell: would prefer not massively different CSS
<Kamion> at the moment I just use that from the Ubuntu website; if I can just use that from the Kubuntu website, that's cool
<allee> [Nirvana] : as you're an CSS expert. Check kubuntu wiki css why the fonts are different from default font size used in kubuntu
<Kamion> don't want to get into maintaining different CSS locally though
<Kamion> Hobbsee: ditto for you, bugs welcome
<Hobbsee> Kamion: hehe.  just watch me assign the entire archive to you :P
<imbrandon> lol
<Riddell> welcome back Nirvana, you have another agenda idem
<Nirvana> weird lagged out...
<Kamion> I can reject just as quickly as anyone else :P
<nixternal> note weird, but typical
<Nirvana> ahh
<nixternal> s/note/not
<nixternal> 
<Nirvana> OK,
<Riddell> Nirvana: Kamion says it should be possible to get a different stylesheet used for those kubuntu pages so that should be doable
<Nirvana> comment: "As an addendum, I tried sharing the printer using Samba, but this task is really more difficult than it should be. Nobody should have to edit configuration files or to scour the mailing lists simply to share a printer on the network."
<Kamion> as long as it's maintained somewhere other than cdimage
<Hobbsee> hi Sho_!
<Sho_> moin
<Hobbsee> Sho_: welcome to the kubuntu meeting :)
<Riddell> Nirvana: we have a spec to turn on easy printer sharing, I don't know what's required to get that working with samba
<Nirvana> ahh, so deferred? or should I continue with what he said?
<imbrandon> moins Sho_ , Kamion like on kubuntu.org or some such and just linked from the html is cdimage ? sounds like a good plan
<Riddell> Nirvana: does he say what needs done?
<Nirvana> kinda
<Nirvana> comment:  I did try a number of solutions, but so far, no luck. This REALLY should be a matter of right-clicking the printer and opening up a share menu. Unfortunately, this is one of those areas that still needs improvement in making this distro even more user-friendly. Jerome, maybe this is something you can get intoa simple GUI method of sharing a printer on an Ubuntu machine?
<Kamion> I've changed the CSS on http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/dapper/ to be http://www.kubuntu.org/ubuntu.css; does that look better now? (you might have to reload a few times to catch a mirror that's updated)
<Kamion> obviously the icons still need to be done
<Nirvana> beautiful
<Nirvana> except
<Nirvana> the cd downloads don't have a border bottom of 100% that's blue, they're just links
<digitalmouse> greetings programs!  just here to listen in on the next meeting... (loggin in case I need to step out)
<Riddell> Kamion: still looks brown to me
<digitalmouse> logging*
<Kamion> Riddell: keep reloading
<Nirvana> wait... it just turned brown when I refreshed
<Riddell> oh, it'll need to sync to all the servers of course
<seaLne> yeah it is working
<Kamion> Nirvana: the download list is just apache's fancy directory listing, I can't easily change that
<Nirvana> I figured
<Nirvana> but I didn't mean that
<seaLne> you ment the Desktop CD and Alternate install CD section headers?
<Riddell> hmm, it's missing some underlines on the headers
<Kamion> oh, that's CSS for <dt>, feel free to change the CSS on the website or provide me a URL on kubuntu.org with CSS that fixes that
<Riddell> Kamion: ok, will do
<Riddell> Nirvana: not much I can do about smb printer sharing frontends without knowing what needs done to the backend, if you could research that it would be cool
<seaLne> h3 dosen't have border-bottom: 2px solid #6e8ec1;
<Riddell> seaLne: yeah, it looked bad on kubuntu.org
<Riddell> imbrandon: firefox themes
<imbrandon> ok this is all pertaining to edgy
<imbrandon> Suggest creating firefox-kubuntu ( theme ) package to complement the new firefox-ubuntu ( theme ) dep so Kubuntu users who choose firefox don't have to deal with the brown theme ( can this not be a dep of u-d-s and not firefox so k-d-s can add a dep of firefox-kubuntu for the artwork/theme or even add it right to k-d-s )
<Riddell> I've not looked at the new stuff in ubuntu for this, I've no idea how easy it is to adapt
* Hobbsee thinks imbrandon should make it.
* nixternal too
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: there's a couple of links made on the...oh, where is it...
<Riddell> imbrandon: we can probably get firefox to depend on one or the other I'm not sure
<imbrandon> well my main this is why did they dep it on firefox and not uds , like when i installed edgy yesterday my ff is/was all browish ;)
<Riddell> ogra: what happened in eadubuntu with respect to ubuntu-firefox?
<seaLne> maybe if it is left brown they will use konq :)
<imbrandon> lol seaLne
* Hobbsee shoots that wiki.kubuntu.org errror.
<nixternal> hehe Hobbsee
<ogra> Riddell, with regard to what ? the startpage?
<Riddell> ogra: the new themeing stuff
<nixternal> wiki.ubuntu.com does the same thing w/o the error 
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: there's a couple of links made on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates/Kubuntu with respect to that, no idea how easy it is to implement
<Nrvana> OK, lag out #2
<Riddell> ogra: I thought I saw you saying it looked bad in edubuntu
<ogra> nothing yet, i'm not happy about it
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i know it is, but partialy itss a case of getting ubuntu-dev to dep firefox-ubuntu on uds not firefox its self
<ogra> we'll either have to ship our own theme or switch to epiphany ...
<ogra> the latter is very likely sonce we need it for kiosk mode anyway
<Hobbsee> ogra: ooh, i have a screensaver bug to assign to you.
<Hobbsee> ogra: https://launchpad.net/bugs/49228
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49228 in kdeartwork "kscreensaver-xsavers installed but screensavers from xscreensaver-gl missing" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
<Nrvana> can someone kick [Nirvana] 
<ogra> Hobbsee, go ahead :)
<kwwii_> erm, my client died
<kwwii_> sorry
<Hobbsee> kwwii_: ghost it.  /msg nickserv ghost kwwii yourpassword
<Riddell> imbrandon: I imagine it's just a case of making a kubuntu-firefox package and having firefox depend on ubuntu-firefox | kubuntu-firefox
<Hobbsee> Nrvana: same thing
<Riddell> but I'm not sure without looking at it
<imbrandon> Riddell, see what i'm saying about the deps, if it deped on uds it wouldent be an issue at all for kubuntu
<imbrandon> Riddell, true ( and the creation of kubuntu-firefox )
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: we cant really have a kubuntu-firefox as a dep of kubuntu-desktop, for the same reason as kscreensaver-xsavers as part of k0d
<seaLne> except wouldn't you get it without having ff?
<Riddell> imbrandon: actually firefox-themes-ubuntu seemas to have multiple themes, maybe we could just put a crystal theme in there
<Hobbsee> seaLne: exactly
<kwwii_> Hobbsee: and what does that do exactly? 
<imbrandon> Riddell, probbly and make it default to that on kubuntu
<Hobbsee> kwwii_: ghosts your deaded client, and lets you /nick kwwii :)
<Riddell> imbrandon: yep
<omeow> Can you make firefox/thunderbird stop using the gnome user interface convention?
<imbrandon> omeow, sorta
<kwwii_> Hobbsee: well, that does not seem to work either, but anyway...for another place this conversation is
<Riddell> imbrandon: could you look at doing that?
<imbrandon> Riddell, sure i would love to ;)
<nixternal> FILEPICKER_CONTRACTID
<Riddell> rocking
<Riddell> imbrandon: you have another agenda item
<Hobbsee> and then it's my entire section :P
<imbrandon> riefly ask Riddell to explain what packages Kubuntu wants tested for backporting and if there is a list/wikipage with them listed and what the current status of backports are -- imbrandon 2006-07-17 00:31:37
<imbrandon> heh
<Sho_> One of the bigger problems with FF and TB is the button order in dialog boxes
<imbrandon> s/^/B/g
<Sho_> But considering they use "KDE button order" on Windows, too, I assume there's a way to get it to use it on Linux, too
<imbrandon> Sho_, yea i know how to fix that i'll see if i can incorp it into ubuntu-firefox-themes
<Riddell> imbrandon: kaffine has been tested, dbus needs to be done, anything else you can think of too
<Sho_> imbrandon: That would be nice
<Riddell> imbrandon: with infinity back we might even get the backports processed at some point
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: did you see what crimsun said earlier w.r.t. backports in #kubuntu-devel?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: nope
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, no
<Riddell> what did he say?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: explained the process of backporting something, pointed to the !backports link
<Hobbsee> if you want to join the team, you join it on LP
<Hobbsee> kwwii: yay :)
<imbrandon> Riddell, rockin , /me has been waiting on the kbfx backport he filed a while ago
<Riddell> Hobbsee: do you know if they're currently happening?
<imbrandon> gah you got me saing rockin now LOL
<Riddell> "they're blocked on the buildd admins having the infrastructure" guess not
<Hobbsee> Riddell: not at the moment, buildd people dont know how ot put thru the backports, or something
<Riddell> it needs soyuz support
<Hobbsee> yeah
<imbrandon> soyuz support, yea thats what crimsun said
<imbrandon> what does that mean exatly lol
<toma> soyus?
<Riddell> soyuz is the part of launchpad that manages the buildds and archives
<Hobbsee> soyuz is something strange that i dont really know about, but has something to do with launchpad.
<imbrandon> ahh
* imbrandon will look into joining the backport team and learn all of this
<Riddell> groovy
<Riddell> so Hobbsee has some agenda items
<imbrandon> that way we have atleaste one kde guy on there ;)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: heh, yes, some.
<toma> this is not the first release we do backports for...
<Hobbsee> Who wants to deal with kvpnc? Has it fallen off the edge of the world again?  I see it's off the edgy packages list.
<gnomefreak> some?
<Hobbsee> debian and ubuntu digressed a lot, so it probably wont be a simple merge
<imbrandon> toma are there actualy any backports for breezy ?
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: yeah, like over half of it
<allee> Hobbsee: kdelibs-bin is still on my TODO for kde-extras repo
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: sure there are
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: i saw ;)
<toma> Hobbsee: i think someone who did kvpnc before
<Hobbsee> toma: cool, okay
<Hobbsee> allee: what about kdelibs-bin?
<Hobbsee> and which kde-extras repo?
<toma> Hobbsee: it contains patches and it is hard to guess if they are still needed
<imbrandon> kde-extras ?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: kde-extras is all the extragear stuff in debian
<Hobbsee> ah, right
<Hobbsee> allee: so kdelibs-bin needs to be removed from all that as well?  cool
<toma> Hobbsee: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=pkg-kde-extras@lists.alioth.debian.org
<Hobbsee> all of the ubuntu repos have gotten rid of kdelibs-bin, except wlassistant, which seemed to be uploaded to the wrong distro by accident.
<Hobbsee> Riddell: Are amarok-arts packages being put in Edgy, for amarok 1.4.1?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: or are we removing amarok-arts from the archive?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: it should be removed
<Hobbsee> Riddell: ie, are we only distributing amarok-xine?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: and therefore what do we do with the gstreamer reports?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: which gstreamer reports?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: fabo is the man for kvpnc, we should poke him and see what the status is
<Hobbsee> Riddell: lots of bug reports about gstreamer in amarok on launchpad
<Hobbsee> Riddell: ah right, fabo is for that as well.
<Riddell> Hobbsee: gstreamer isn't the supported backend so tough on them, it doesn't even exist in edgy
<allee> Riddell, Hobbsee fabo is away until next week AFAIR
<Riddell> oh yes, fabo's away
<Hobbsee> Riddell: hehe, right, so someone can go do lots of bug closing :)
<allee> but we can add changes nevertheless ;)
<Hobbsee> Who's writing the UVF exception report for kopete? Where's the changelog again?  i'm assuming that's my job, unless Riddell's doing it?
* Sho_ notes that Konversation won't make the UVF either
<Sho_> Or hasn't made it, actually
<Hobbsee> Sidenote: Anyone who wants to cheer for me for MOTU, on Tuesday's Tech Board meeting is welcome; it's at 2000UTC.
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I'll write it, poke me after the meeting so I don't forget
<nixternal> haha
<Hobbsee> Sho_: is konversation in main?  guess it is.
<Hobbsee> Riddell: okay, cool, will do
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea its in main
<Sho_> Hobbsee: It's in the default installation selection, FWIW
<Riddell> Sho_: any estimated release date?
<Sho_> Riddell: Not before the end of August, I'd say
<Sho_> Riddell: But it's a less painful migration than 0.18->0.19. While there will be a lot of feature work and many bugfixes, the preferences file format hasn't changed, unlike in 0.19 where extensive conversation scripts needed to run.
<Sho_> Riddell: I.e. it should be fairly smooth all around.
<Sho_> s/conversation/conversion/
<Riddell> Sho_: I don't think it'll be a problem, so long as the release is stable
<Hobbsee> #
<Hobbsee> Gamin fixes from [WWW]  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEdgyPackageUpdates - any packagers interested in doing these? I think we can start doing these after the Knot 1 freeze. I'm happy to sponsor people's uploads of this after the TB meeting.
<Hobbsee> #
<Hobbsee> ouch, dodgy paste.
<Hobbsee> as the next item
<Hobbsee> nixternal: i think might want to do some of these
<Riddell> note that gamin stuff is dependant on not using gamin actually working
<imbrandon> yea and i'll grab a few as time permits
<Sho_> Riddell: The development version is more stable than 0.19 at this point, but there's major feature work still pending. We'll do a stabilization period with string freeze in any case, of course.
<Hobbsee> Riddell: heh, so that's not final yet?
<nixternal> I'm gam(e)in 
<Riddell> nixternal: that would be cool, it's entirely trivial just rebuild with build1 or ubuntu2 version numbers
<nixternal> unless of course it is a new upstream
<Riddell> Hobbsee: not definately final, but I the expectation is we're getting rid of gamin
<Hobbsee> Riddell: right, can you give me confirrmation if/when that actually happens, and i'll poke people to do the fixes?
<Sho_> Riddell: Let me but it this way, what's the threshold date after which it becomes really inconvenient for Kubuntu to put it in? ;)
<Hobbsee> Sho_: universe freeze?  we'd like to get testers using it as much as possible
<Riddell> Hobbsee, nixternal  we might have lots of autoconf 2.60 trouble with the rebuilds
<Hobbsee> Riddell: yeah, kpowersave is bitten with that.
<Riddell> Sho_: September 7th  feature freeze
<Hobbsee> Riddell: make sure you dont take your patch down off kubuntu.org w.r.t autoconf :P
<Sho_> Riddell: ok
<toma> Riddell: autoconf 2.6 in edgy?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: it's staying there for a long time
<Hobbsee> Riddell: good :)
<Riddell> toma: yes, breaks lots of KDE stuff with admin/ directories that don't detect it
<toma> Riddell: there is a simple patch for that, but i guess you know that
<nixternal> oh fun
<Riddell> toma: yep
<Hobbsee> #
<Hobbsee> Can we get the views in konqueror reverted? (ie, be able to click on the button, and detailed list/icons/pictures view is shown, as is standard in KDE? What other changes might make sense to revert?
<Hobbsee> sorry - i dont have a screenshot of what it's like in kde
<Kamion> imbrandon: my loose plan for backports is to just port the freaking script over from the old archive infrastructure myself
<Kamion> Riddell: the backports blocker at present is not infinity, it's on the archive side
<Sho_> Riddell: Regarding the Konqueror menus, one problem I've experienced frequently during end-user support in #kde is that the "Safe View Changes Per Folder" toggle acction seems to be missing from Dapper's Konqueror entirely
<imbrandon> Kamion, cool , as i said i would like to look into joining the backport team too to look more into the k* stuff but i'll tend to that after the meeting
<Hobbsee> but in standard kde, the view, view mode, options are part of the same toolbar as back, forward, etc.  what was the kubuntu rationale for changing this in the first place, and do we still want it that way?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: rationale is to not have lots of buttons in konqueror
<Riddell> Hobbsee: also it's quite badly implemented, should be a dropdown list not three dropdown buttons
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i'd think that those buttons were fairly obvious, and very useful.  dropdown would be more effective, maybe.
<imbrandon> toolbar buttons bad, dropdown good
<imbrandon> if its not in the top 2% of actions it shouldent be a tollbar button
<Riddell> there's not really any space on the kubuntu konqueror layout to add them
<imbrandon> tool*
<Hobbsee> toolbar buttons are better than no option at all.
<Hobbsee> yeah, okay, maybe
<Riddell> Hobbsee: the option is there, in the View menu, but I agree it's not very convenient
* Hobbsee will have to look to see what kde did with it.  but that's on dapper
* Hobbsee tends to swap options a lot.
<Riddell> Sho_: is that a menu item?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: it's not, but lets discuss it anyway.
<Sho_> Riddell: In KDE's Konq it's in the "Settings" menu, yup
<Hobbsee> oh, oops
* Hobbsee misread menu as meeting
<Riddell> Sho_: hmm, sounds like more suited to a configuration dialogue option
<Riddell> it's not something you change lots
<Sho_> Riddell: Actually it's two items, "Save View Changes Per Folder" and "Remove Folder Properties". The former is a toggle action that makes Konqueror heed .directory files which contain saved instructions on how to display that folder, and the latter removes such a file if it is clicked.
<Sho_> Riddell: I've had a number of Dapper users in #kde that couldn't get their view mode to stick, and when I asked them to deactivate "Save View Changes Per Folder" they couldn't
<Sho_> Riddell: On Windows, it's an Explorer config dialog options
<kwwii> sorry to interrupt, but http://bootsplash.org/crystal_webicons.tar.bz2 are the crystal equivalents of the icons used on that page from earlier
<Riddell> kwwii: thanks
<Riddell> Sho_: I'm not convinced that adding it back is worth messing up the Settings menu even more
<Sho_> Riddell: I agree it shouldn't be in the menus either, but being unable to access it is a substantial problem. Perhaps the Kubuntu Konq should at least default to "Save Per Folder = off", so that changing the view mode in one folder changes it everywhere.
<Riddell> Sho_: sure, we could do that
<Sho_> Riddell: The underlying problem is that users manage to get into a state where they switch the view mode, than navigate to another folder and get a different view mode, and find no way to change the view mode consistently, which drives them up walls
<Riddell> Tonio_: could you look at that?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: having a todo list on the wiki sounds good
<Tonio_> Riddell: let me read.... I'm lock on a crashed sql server....
<Sho_> Riddell: This is partly made worse by KDE 3.5.2 in which the media:/ kparts are buggy wrt/ applying the right view mode, which was fixed in 3.5.3
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: voyager's working now, right?
<Tonio_> Sho_: can you describe a bit more plz ?
<Tonio_> I don't understand the point where users don't find how to change the view mode....
<Tonio_> it is not that hard to find is it ?
<Sho_> Tonio_: The problem is that Konqueror is capable of storing the view mode either as a global default or a per-folder setting, and the menu item to toggle between the two behaviors is unavailable in Kubuntu
<Tonio_> Sho_: hum, true
<kwwii> such behavior is typical in win and osx as well
<Sho_> Tonio_: So as long as that menu item is unavailable, it is my opinion that the Kubuntu Konq should do its best to always use the consistent, global default, because the user cannot switch off per-folder settings
<Sho_> As for the KDE 3.5.2 media:/ view mode bug fixed in 3.5.3: http://bugs.kde.org/108542
<Tonio_> Sho_: currently, if you change the view mode, the setting is stored for all folders
<Tonio_> am I wrong on that point ?*
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea voyager is up, its what i'm typing from
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: okay, i might get some stuff to build on it, maybe.
<Sho_> Tonio_: I don't know, I've never used a Kubuntu Konq with default settings. But I do quite a bit of end-user support in #kde, and I've helped about half a dozen Dapper users which had the problem of the view mode switching all the time. Either by explaining to them how to delete the Kubuntu rc files to get the menu item, or by modifying the config file. 
<Sho_> Tonio_: But I can't tell you how they manage to get into that state
<Tonio_> Sho_: launch konq, change the view mode and save your profile, the setting will be stored for every folder
<Tonio_> the only thing is that the setting is not stored automatically, they just have to save their profile, which is a consitent and logic way to do, in my view
<Sho_> Tonio_: That's what I advised as first and what usually didn't work out
<Tonio_> maybe that should be documented
<Tonio_> Sho_: strange.... I'l have a look, but I'm testing here and it works...
<kwwii> sounds like a bug to me
<Tonio_> Sho_: it works except with certain protocols, like media:/
<Sho_> Tonio_: Yeah, I guess there needs to be more research done on how exactly the problem comes about ...
<Tonio_> it has been corrected in 3.5.3
<Riddell> Hobbsee: any more agenda items?
<Tonio_> but don't forget dapper is 3.5.2 based ;)
<Tonio_> most users don't have 3.5.3
<Hobbsee> Riddell: well, you can see what the next one was, you dont have to discuss it.
<Sho_> Tonio_: Yes ... considering I just sent you the link to that bug: I know ;)
<Riddell> Hobbsee: todo list, cool
<Hobbsee> i didnt think of anything else mindshattering during work.  only about going for core-dev
<Riddell> Hobbsee: you organising, yay!
<Hobbsee> Riddell: hehe - tha'ts really okay, and not stepping on your toes?
<Riddell> step all you want
<imbrandon> ;P
<Hobbsee> oh dear.  Riddell's toes got broken.
<Tonio_> Sho_: if you see some of those people can you send them to me ?
<Hobbsee> anyone else got problems with me organising things?
<Tonio_> I'd like to see what are the problems first to think about a solution ;)
<Sho_> Tonio_: ok
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, keeps me orginised ;)
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: go for it
<imbrandon> heh
<kwwii> as long as you do whatever I say, no problem here
<Tonio_> Sho_: tonio@ubuntu.com if they want to mail me
<Hobbsee> kwwii: hehe!
<Sho_> Tonio_: noted
<Hobbsee> okay, if people have stuff to add to kopete, can they please send debdiffs, etc, to me?
<Hobbsee> seeing as 4 people working on the same thing is damned stupid!
<imbrandon> lol
<toma> Hobbsee: organising is great, but it would be great if the agenda was not filled in the two hours before a meeting
<imbrandon> toma +1
<seaLne> maybe an excuse for using bzr for packages?
<Hobbsee> toma: yeah, sorry about that. i had a "argh i want to get all this stuff fixed so i'm just going to write and write and write"
<Hobbsee> seaLne: i dont know how to use bzr, but yeah
<Hobbsee> toma: mostly i'd stick it on the to-do list, and update it that way
<Riddell> date and time of next meeting?
<nixternal> Hobbsee: bzr is easy to use ;)
<allee> toma: at university doing work 2 hour before the deadline is what we call early :)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: this time is great!  i'm actually awake :D
<toma> allee: hehe. should we discuss allioth btw?
<seaLne> but maybe not a holiday monday :)
<Riddell> it's a holiday?
<allee> toma: for Hobbsee ?
<toma> allee: for *
<seaLne> glasgow trades weekend also in france afaik
<Hobbsee> say what?
<allee> toma: your turn.  I'm horrible short of time
* Hobbsee knows close to nothing about alioth.
<allee> Hobbsee: know svn?
<toma> allee: /me too. next meeting
<Hobbsee> allee: only vaguely.  tell me in #kubuntu-devel if you want
<allee> Hobbsee: 'k
<Hobbsee> allee: or via email, whatever you like
<Riddell> ohw about Monday 31st for next meeting
<Riddell> we could swap betwene having them at 21:00 and 13:00
<toma> this timeslot is not working for me, btw.
<Riddell> is 13:00 troublesome for others too?
<Riddell> presumably various europeans are using up their lunch breaks
<toma> how about 15utc?
<imbrandon> 15 would be nicer
<allee> Riddell: far fro ideal.  I can never be sure to be able to participate, or get interrupted
<imbrandon> but no real objection
* Hobbsee cant do 15UTC, but whatever others think.
<Hobbsee> 1am start time, 3am possible bed.  hmmm.
<Hobbsee> 1400UTC doable?
<toma> how about a shift to the weekend?
<seaLne> weekends would be bad imho
<Hobbsee> if its' a problem, then go back to 2100 UTC - i just wont be able to make the meetings.
<Riddell> weekends are risky, less pradictable to know if you're free
<toma> Hobbsee: that is unaccepotable
<imbrandon> what bout 2200 or 2300 ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that just makes it worse, from my end.
<toma> 23 utc?
<seaLne> that would be the same problem but for europeans
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'm at uni during those times.  
<imbrandon> hrm
* Hobbsee has a simple solution.
<seaLne> move to europe?
<Hobbsee> someone give me a job offer that includes moving to europe.
<imbrandon> ok lets do this , every kcc member ( the council ) name a time when its good and we'll see who has what in common
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, seaLne toma Riddell allee ?
<Riddell> right, I'll contact everyone on the council and get good times off them and see if there's any overlap
* Hobbsee is working it out
* Hobbsee can do anything (usually, pending work) in the last 5-6 hours.
<Riddell> we'll do that out of the meeting, I need my lunch now
<Riddell> any other business?
<Hobbsee> nope, dont think so.
<Riddell> thanks everyone
<Riddell> fingers crossed for Knot 1
<allee> :)
<nixternal> and toes
<seaLne> time to escape out into the sun :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<nixternal> seaLne: +1
<Tonio_> Riddell: I have a binch of things to discuss but I will prepare something for the next meeting since I shouldn't be there actually :)
<Tonio_> s/binh/bunch
<ogra> Riddell, make sure you have the seeds merged before building CDs ... so you dont get trapped by outdated kernel stuff like i did
<Riddell> ogra: did that last night
<ogra> ah, fine
<ogra> i didnt :/
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: Current meeting: Kubuntu | 17 Jul 21:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 19:30 UTC: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 17 Jul 14:30: Ubuntu Magazine | 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 14:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu
<nixternal> 20 minutes now...i shall return, shower time!!!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Magazine | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<nixternal> Ubuntu Magazine Meeting!!!
<adamant1988> yay
<adamant1988> exciting
<nixternal> hrmm
<adamant1988> seems that everyone forgot
<nixternal> Our next meeting is this coming Monday the 17th at 19:30 UTC time.
<nixternal> that is the email there
<nixternal> interesting
<adamant1988> indeed
<adamant1988> well, it's just you and me
<adamant1988> wanna play tag?
<nixternal> not in here..this chan is logged for minutes
<nixternal> bye
<sara_> hello
<sara_> anyone here for the ubuntu magazine meeting
<sara_> I think there was a confution with the time
<sara_> ok
<nixternal> heh, wasn't paying attention to time..is john going to make it?
<sara_> should I wait a little bit more
<sara_> I sure hope so, I received an e-mail form him earleir and he did not say anything about not beign here
<sara_> but I think that I might want to wait a couple more minutes 
<nixternal> it seems sara, that you and i are the only ones from any previous meetings still interested in the project...i know joey has been really busy in his personal life, so that is understandable
<nixternal> waiting is fine..im gonna grab a drink and brb
<sara_> ok, I understand that people come and go as long as there is a couple of people that continue the work
<nixternal> sara, when this meeting is adjourned, i will work on the minutes, as well as put them in the order of /MarketingTeam/Magazine/Meetings/ or the like
<sara_> ok
<nixternal> is the mag under /Marketing, or does it have it's own directory?
<sara_> I think that it is unver is own
<nixternal> ok..then i will put it under /UbuntuMagazine/Meetings/Minutes
<sara_> under
<nixternal> i will get to work on the wiki stuff as well
<sara_> ok, enough wait, let start
<sara_> is nixternal the only one here for  the meeting
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> you just want to converse in the main channel?
<sara_> yeah  lets do that
<nixternal> ok..see you there
<sara_> ig youa re here for the Ubuntu magazine wiki, pleas ejoin us at #ubuntu-marketing
<sara_> Ubuntu magazine meeting at #ubuntu-marketing
<nixternal> alrighty..back in here then ;)
<sara_> ok so we are back
<nixternal> hehe..we will get it
<sara_> sorry about the mess
<nixternal> well..also just in case there are others ideling, they might like to hear everything as well and maybe join in on the fun!!!
<sara_> so we move to the charter
<j_baer_> Ok ... I'm here!
* jenda peeks in...
* jenda runs off
<nixternal> doh
<jenda> sorry :(
<sara_> ok so let move on to the charter
<nixternal> jenda: membership baby ;)))
<sara_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazineProjectCharter
<j_baer_> Ok, would you like some opening comments?
<sara_> please
<j_baer_> I know this charter business is a bit different from the norm.
<j_baer_> And if we were building a widget for Efty the current process is ok
* nixternal makes a note to self, make sure that wiki talk was discussed in #ubuntu-marketing when compiling the meeting minutes
<j_baer_> But Marketing is different, our deliverables are different.
<nixternal> j_baer_: edgy eft for clarification
<j_baer_> Thanks ...
<j_baer_> So the point of the charter is to describe as best as possible what this is all about.
<sara_> ok
<j_baer_> If there is a question down the road everyone needs to know how we got there ....
<j_baer_> ok ...
<j_baer_> One more thing ...
<sara_> yes
<j_baer_> The magazine in a very big way represents Ubuntu!
<j_baer_> What we do and how we do it will be very important ....
<j_baer_> All yours sara
<sara_> so could you explain a little bit mroe of how we take this charter and make it work
<j_baer_> I would suggest the next step is presenting it for approval.
<j_baer_> Canonical needs to buy in on this.
<Burgwork> j_baer_, what you need from canonical and why?
<nixternal> j_baer_: you might want to present it first to the Community Council..as that would be the "chain of command" so-to-speak
<sara_> that was the plan, but with our low attendace today we are probably going to take this to the mailing list
<Burgwork> there is no need to get anybody to buy into anything, on an official level
<Burgwork> at least not yet
<Burgwork> just start producing good stuff
<sara_> I think tha tfor now we probably want to take it to the ubuntu-marketing team 
<j_baer_> If Canonical has other marketing plans we need to blow to their desire ...
<sara_> I agre with Butgwork, first we produce something and then we ask for Coc
<Burgwork> j_baer_, canonical != ubuntu
<Burgwork> and canonical almost certainly has nothing like this
<nixternal> as a matter of fact they don't
<nixternal> Ubuntu is community driven in every aspect
<sara_> They are aware of the marketing team plans and fromt ime to time Jane pops up and gives feedback, so as soon as we have something I am sure we will get some feedback
<j_baer_> Ok point well made, but who will authorize the use of resources?
<Burgwork> what resources?
<j_baer_> Servers, bandwidth ...
<sara_> Canonical provied the marketign team with hosting and servers 
<j_baer_> Who would purchase the DNS?
<Burgwork> what dns?
<Burgwork> lets have something before we go to that stage
<Burgwork> cart before the horst
<Burgwork> s/horst/horse
<Mithrandir> j_baer_: registering domains would not be a problem, I'm sure.
<sara_> ok I think tahtere might be some confussion. We have the resources like DNS, hosting ans stuff
<sara_> Canonical have already register spreadubuntu adn I am sure that they could do the same for us as long as we have a product
<j_baer_> How much of a product do we need?
<sara_> Evfen though we are not official part of them, They are more thatn willing to help us
<Burgwork> please don't get hung up on being official
<Burgwork> better to talk about content
<sara_> Last time I talke to Jenda it seems that we could probably get a bzr branch as soon as we were ready
<sara_> I am working on providing the resources, just give me a week or so, so don't worry about that 
<j_baer_> What would bzr do for us?
<sara_> for now we could host WIPS as stated on your workflow and 
<sara_> and the start of the magazine, once we have our first draft we could probably get our site hosted
<sara_> have you take a look at the bzr repo for spread ubuntu?
<j_baer_> Yes ... although I need some help learning ...
<j_baer_> Unlike the WIKI I didn't see an area to practice.
<sara_> we could definetly do with something like that, but we ned stuff to put on it
<sara_> You can practicce if you want and then we can remove it if you want
<j_baer_> My thoughts are the WBS would go there  ...
<sara_> WBS
<sara_> ?
<j_baer_> Tasks to be accomplished.
<j_baer_> For example we need to decide on a name for the magazine.
<j_baer_> Why not involve the community and offer a prize.
<sara_> That is point #3, anyone has any other comment on the charter other thatn the resources
<j_baer_> Sorry ...
<Kamion> nixternal: sorry I'm a bit behind, but speaking as a community council member I'd say that if you want to get a position from Canonical about marketing you should talk to Jane Silber in the first instance rather than the CC
<sara_> it ok, I just want to make sure that Rich has a saying on this
<j_baer_> Point made.
<sara_> nixternal?
<nixternal> Kamion: thanks for the response!!!  Jane is in our line of communications on the MarketingTeam Mailing List
<nixternal> she helps the team out tremendously
<j_baer_> Would it be appropriate to ask for comments on the charter?
<sara_> so nixternal any  though on the charter and the way it's organized, The milestones?
<nixternal> j_baer_ and sara_, Jane is 'silbs' when she is online, and she is usually hanging out in the #ubuntu-marketing channel. She is a Canonical employee interested in everything we do
<nixternal> jenda has more information concerning communications with her as well
<Mithrandir> nixternal: she's not just an employee, she's the COO.
<nixternal> heh ya, good point Mithrandir
<sara_> I know she has sent me some e-mails
<nixternal> ok sara_, i kind of figured you knew who she was
<nixternal> i like the current organization and the path that i see...
<sara_> I think we need to talk about specs
<nixternal> milestones and everything is great...everyone just needs to come ot terms on what is needed "Right Now" so-to-speak
<sara_> I am going to make it so that the official way to submitt ideas and work on this project is going tob e troughLaunchpad
<sara_> I feel that some stuff have gotten lost on the mailing list, How mayn of you got my reviced TOC about threee wekks ago
* nixternal checks
<j_baer_> Sara, Help me out with that idea ...
<sara_> well my posint is that I never got any replied and I am usre that to some people it was lost
<nixternal> i have the gobby toc we created originally from june 10th
<sara_> no it was after that on an e-mail with the thing we had and where we should take it from there
<sara_> I think that the mailing list is not the most effective way to communictate
<j_baer_> Good point, sometimes things do get lost on the mailing list ...
<nixternal> sara_: did you send the email?
<sara_> yeah I have it on my sent box, but the point is that we need a better way to communicate
* nixternal checks again
<j_baer_> Perhaps the WIKI can assist and serve as a white board of things happening?
<nixternal> i do not have that email
<nixternal> j_baer_: yes it can..and i will make sure to create a "white board" for us as well
<j_baer_> what else can we do?
<sara_> Yeah we need to have that plus we neeed to use Lauchpad.I thinkt aht the workflow should be like this. Ubuntu magazine wiki->Launchpad->Spec->Bzr version
<sara_> ok now that we all now how to submitt things we can move on
<nixternal> well..the bzr is good if we are going to be utilizing version control for documentation...which i guess in all reality you probably would version control magazine content among the various editors and such
<sara_> yeas that is exactly the point
<j_baer_> I was thing bzr more to list things in progress and due dates ...
<nixternal> actually, im still new to the bzr, but what we do on other teams with svn, is we have the main doc, and we make changes locally, the svn diff out to a .xml.diff file..and then a maintainer uploads the patch
<nixternal> bzr isn't like webhosting at all...bzr is a versioning control system
<Riddell> nixternal: why not just commit yourself?
<j_baer_> Ok help me out ... When I go to launchpad and look at ubuntu I see all of the things going on with who, when, what and where.
<sara_> well, like with the charter, I mad e spec on Lauchpad, draft the spec, the you finish writtign the spec and use bzr to keeps trac of the diff version
<j_baer_> is this what we are talking about?
<nixternal> i don't have the power yet Riddell ;)
<nixternal> soon this young grasshopper will ;)
<nixternal> j_baer_: the who/what/when/where you see is the "Specification" or spec for short
<j_baer_> Ok
<nixternal> bzr is used to keep track of revisions in source code, documentation and such
<j_baer_> I see real value in the spec.
<nixternal> specs are great, because you can take it from the brainstorming session, all the way to implementation
<sara_> ok, so I want to be use that system to keep thing in order
<j_baer_> Somehow we have to define what we are going to do and when.
<sara_> ok so that is next, I just want to make sure that we are in the same place and know the way we will do it
<j_baer_> Sara can u get us onboard with the spec?
<nixternal> +1 on that idea whole-heartedly j_baer_
<sara_> so I guess we can mov eon
<sara_> move on
<sara_> First, We need to pick and identity, name etc
<j_baer_> I have an idea ...
<j_baer_> Want to hear it?
<sara_> go ahead
<j_baer_> Open the name for suggestions via the forums.
<nixternal> name for???   i am lost on this one here
<sara_> The ubuntu forums? Name for the magazine
<j_baer_> Yes ...
<nixternal> i thought it was "Ubuntu Magazine"
<j_baer_> Undecided ...
<nixternal> ahh
<j_baer_> It could be ?
<sara_> I think this is too generic. I feel that we might alienated some users. i was talking to some poeple who never use ubuntu forums or stuff
<nixternal> Ubuntu Magazine ;)
<j_baer_> I understand your concern ...
<sara_> They only use kubuntu.org , and the kubuntu forums , so naming it ubuntu magazine might not appeal to them
<sara_> Maybe we can have ubuntu and sometinh else
<nixternal> i don't see how using "Ubuntu Magazine" would alienate..for one, the magazine would have definition far past that of the Ubuntu Linux Operating System..there is the "real" definition of Ubuntu that goes along with it...that means no matter how you are different (Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu), it is all one *Ubuntu*
* nixternal hopes people don't start finding him corny cuz he takes the whole "Ubuntu" definition to heart
<nixternal> meaning*
<j_baer_> We all do!
<sara_> Maybe we can have something after the ubuntu, like john idea of Ubuntu abanta
<nixternal> hahah thanks
<sara_> we all do
<nixternal> que es eso?
<j_baer_> The word abanta means people in Zulu
<nixternal> como se dice abanta ?
<nixternal> ok..im just preparing for Cabo ;)
<sara_> no se
<nixternal> lol
<sara_> I don't know
<j_baer_> lol
<sara_> but it sounds nice since it stand for people
<nixternal> it means people..and since Ubuntu, according to Wikipedia has it roots there..it does make since and sounds good
<j_baer_> Ok, what about a logo?
<nixternal> the Ubuntu logo
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> it is hard to push me to anything else, since we are in effect marketing "Ubuntu"
<sara_> First, I'll post a poll on Lauchapd with other names suggested and whoever wins get computer sticker
<j_baer_> Wait better yet !!!!!!
<Burgwork> a magazine *might* have a use case for a new logo
<nixternal> now, implementing something with the Ubuntu logo to identify it as a magazine..i can look past it ;)
<j_baer_> Ask Mark if he will sign a CD set for give away!!!!
<nixternal> if he won't, i will ;)
<sara_> doload this file and open it on inkscape
<sara_> http://www.tikal26.net/ubuntu/ubuntumagazine.svg
<sara_> take a look at the line logo I think is definetly ubuntu, but more generic
<j_baer_> Point well taken, a new logo would help with Sara's concern.
<j_baer_> In addition and I know this is out of scope but there is the branding issue.
<j_baer_> Let's dream big and assume this pub will stand beside Red Hat Mag.
<j_baer_> Actually it will be better!
<sara_> exactly!!
<Burgwork> not red hat magazine has no distinct logo
<Burgwork> and rh magazine is mostly online
<Burgwork> in fact, it appears to be entirely online
<nixternal> it is
<j_baer_> True and the charters states we will be too ...
<nixternal> but it will be published soon from what i have heard
<Burgwork> https://www.redhat.com/apps/webform.html?event_type=simple_form&eid=299
<j_baer_> One moment while I look ..
<sara_> yeah give me sec
<sara_> well, red hat does not has so many branches
<nixternal> i ran acrossed a post somewhere about it becoming official as well
<Burgwork> nixternal, which being official?
<nixternal> being published i meant
<j_baer_> It easy to start on-line first ...
<sara_> i think that we talked about eventually having a printable pdf also
<j_baer_> Ok, what about the name?
<sara_> I will open a post on ubuntu forums, then make a poll and we actually have pices for the winner, it might encourage poepel to participate
<j_baer_> Who will decide?
* nixternal likes the "Ubuntu Abanta"
<nixternal> you say potatoe, i say pototoe ;)
<sara_> I tohugh that Jenda, Me, and any active member of the magzine who did nopt submitt a name
<sara_> I do like the Ubuntu abanta though
<nixternal> hehe
<j_baer_> Do u want to just go for it?
<nixternal> i think others need to vote, but there is nothting wrong with it being "out favorite" ;)
<nixternal> i can ask around if people like it, since i live here on irc
<j_baer_> It's that inclusion thing ...
<nixternal> hehe exactly
<sara_> yeah, because I know that some poeple could not make it do to time zones
<j_baer_> Ok sara, are u going to handle this?
<sara_> yeah
<j_baer_> It's yours!
<j_baer_> Before we leave this do u want to ask for the CD's?
<sara_> ok so bedies a name and a logo what else makes a magazine's identity
<j_baer_> The CD's?
<nixternal> the content and the community supporting it
<nixternal> CD's would be great once it becomes published
<j_baer_> No as a prize ...
<j_baer_> U know the ones u will sign!
<sara_> uhh
<nixternal> hehe
<sara_> haha,
<nixternal> need to come up with teh contest ideas, and maybe submit them to someone and say "we would like to have sabdfl sign some cd's for the winner"
<j_baer_> Being serious again this kind of prize does not cost and will bring exposure to the effort.
<nixternal> true
<j_baer_> I will ask if you would like?
<sara_> I guess we could do that, I actually have extra DVD from amazon tha i give away so taht might be more atttractive
<j_baer_> Something signed has value beyound dollars ...
<j_baer_> Would u like to place this idea on the parking lot?
<nixternal> you can ask for autographed stuff maybe through claire...i don't know how to go about it truthfully, but i could ask around
<j_baer_> I was thinking Jane
<nixternal> ya, or jane ;)
<sara_> Yeah lets put in in the parking lot, becasue I don't know if this will work for our first contest
<nixternal> but i know to contact sabdfl you go through claire
<j_baer_> ok, on the parking lot it goes let's move on ...
<sara_> I think for our first contest a DVD set and and sticerk should be fine
<nixternal> invitations, proposals, and requests for sabdfl goes through claire
<sara_> I have a TOC for you commets wait a second until I foward it to you
<nixternal> that is on the hbd page of his
<j_baer_> Sorry, is it coming here?
<sara_> ok sent the e-mail with it
<j_baer_> one moment ...
<sara_> to the marketing team mailing list I'll wrtite a spce latter
<j_baer_> ok ...
<sara_> you got it?
<nixternal> not yet
<j_baer_> not yet ...
<j_baer_> I'm checking my gmail account {?}
<sara_> ok, so I just resend it, but I am not getting it either
<j_baer_> Do u want to move on?
<sara_> I fowarde from the old e-mail I ahd nixternal so if you have that e-mail you can probaly read it form there, I'll make sure to resend put one up on the wiki today
<j_baer_> ok
<nixternal> roger that
<sara_> Ok we are actaully running out of time we  have 5 more minutes
<j_baer_> Would u like to recap the next steps?
<sara_> so to sumarize we have gone trough milestoen 1, need aproval from 2, and stareted on 3, and 4
<j_baer_> U will handle the Mag Name ...
<sara_> I will take care o f the resource spart and I think that I am going to swith 5 and 7and 8. We will Indetify content of the firs issue and then establis publication proces and then initiate lauch campain
<j_baer_> How will we report progress?
<sara_> yeah, I will dela with the magazine name poll, and start writign more specs
<sara_> In  Lauchpad, This way I will assign specs and they will move from draft to finalized
<j_baer_> Ok, I have an account but I was not able to changed anything.
<sara_> So , give me a few hours and I;ll take care of that. I will also wrtie more specs to cove that name and lofo things
<sara_> nixternal please contact me with any help you need for the wiki
<nixternal> will do
<j_baer_> Same here ...
<sara_> I'll wrtie on the charter wiki to chage somthign around concerning the milestones and then after revistion will submitted to the marketing team
<sara_> ok any thing else
<j_baer_> sounds good to me ...
<sara_> ok, thanks for you kind work and let move on. I hope that with the minute we can get otehr involve
<nixternal> got the email ;)
<sara_> talk to you later, please make commetns on the TOC.
<nixternal> will do
<j_baer_> Thank you Sara for your efforts, :)
<sara_> :)
<nixternal> thanks eveyrone
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-18
<mhz> hehehe
<P3L|C4N0> ;)
<imbrandon> @schedule us/central
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 14:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jjesse> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<lucas> @schedule paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<ogra> mumble ...
<Keybuk> ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* Keybuk looks at Ubugtu ... you're 10 minutes fast there
<gnomefreak> lol
<ogra> thats intentional
<Hobbsee> Morning All!
<Toadstool> Hi everybody!
<ogra> hey Hobbsee !!!
<Hobbsee> ogra: :)
<Hobbsee> hey ogra - most of kscreensavers (all but two) work completely out of the box in edgy!
<ogra> yay
* Hobbsee was most surprised
<ogra> i didt change much in the package ... 
<ogra> *didnt
<ogra> cant have been me :)
<zul> hi Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> h zul 
<Hobbsee> ogra: hehe sure...
<Tonio_> hi everyone
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: the kaffeine bug is closed...
<Gloubiboulga_> hi Tonio_, hi all
<Tonio_> hey Gloubiboulga_
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: cool!  you fixed it?
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: yes, the bug was due to an error of mine in the debian folder structure...
* gnomefreak hasnt gottent he update on that yet :(
<Tonio_> I had an "in progress" version on my HD and a working one
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: yeah, thought it might be...
<Tonio_> I uploaded the bad one ;)
<Hobbsee> right
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> oops :P
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: i just looked at it and went "sheesh this is screwed.  what's he done now?"
<ogra> hmm, another extremely filled agenda :P
<Hobbsee> hiya StevenK!
<Hobbsee> ogra: where is said agenda?
<StevenK> On the wiki
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<Keybuk> ogra: I don't know if we'll get Q tonight
<ogra> well, depends on mdz i guess
<Keybuk> mdz and sabdfl are at the management love-in in Barcelona
<ogra> wasnt that mallorca ? 
<Keybuk> somewhere in Spain
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> where the sangria flows 
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: cant they find someone else to step in and vote if we dont have quorum?
<ogra> well, mjg59 is here i think 
<ogra> is two quorum for the TB ?
<Keybuk> two, yes
<mjg59> Evening
<ogra> :)
<Hobbsee> hi mjg59 
<Tonio_> hi mjg59
* StevenK waves to mjg59.
<Keybuk> aha
<Keybuk> so let's get the party started
* StevenK tries and fails to rub the sleep out of his eyes.
<Toadstool> hey mjg59 
<ogra> wuld be a shame if Hobbsee woudnt get approved :P
* Hobbsee heads for the coke to wake up
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: off you go
<mjg59> Shall we get on with things, then?
<Hobbsee> ogra: if that happened, whoever *didnt* do the approving would get me bugging them for all future uploads
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: so you want to be an uploader?
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: sorry, what do you want?
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: yes
<ogra> Hobbsee, three liner intro
<Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hobbsee is the wiki page
<Hobbsee> shoot, sorry, i dotn have a three liner today...
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: well, introduce yourself
* gnomefreak kept her up late with kaffeine
* Hobbsee meant to write that, but got sidetracked fixing amarok, and then dealing with kaffeine
<Keybuk> "I don't have an introduction, I've been too busy fixing bugs" ... yup, that suffices as an introduction for me <g>
<Hobbsee> right, well, i'm Sarah Hobbs, in sydney, and i do a lot of kubuntu stuff
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: :P
* ogra puts on miniskirt and pompoms
* Hobbsee runs at that thought
* imbrandon joins ogra
<imbrandon> lol
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: so you'd be doing more Kubuntu work if you had upload privileges?
<Hobbsee> i'm on the Kubuntu Community Council, and i pretty much end up organising a lot of kubuntu
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: well, likely, but i also do run out of time, being a full time student, and working as well
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: it's more that i wouldnt have to bug a few million people to have to upload my fixes
<Hobbsee> in the future i'll likely go for core dev
<Keybuk> are any of those people who have sponsored you so far here today?
<Hobbsee> in fact, you could give me those rights today to :P
<StevenK> Yes, I'm here.
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: sure, StevenK, Riddell, raphink, 
<Keybuk> StevenK: how have you found Hobbsee's work?
<Hobbsee> there are more...brain's not quite here yet
<Riddell> I support Hobbsee as MOTU (and main before too long I expect) uploader, she's done great stuff with a lot of kubuntu packages
<StevenK> Keybuk: She knows what she's doing.
* ogra cheers loudly ...
<Hobbsee> Riddell actually approves of me organising and bossing everyone around, which is surprising
<Keybuk> mjg59: any questions from you?
<imbrandon> and helps other motu hopefulls like myself tremendusly 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch, bddebian, both of whom arent here
<Tonio_> I can confirm she is extremly active, tracking bugs, providing patches
<mjg59> Sorry, just getting through the wiki page
<Hobbsee> zakame too, who also istn here
<Tonio_> and it is a long time effort
<LaserJock> Hobbsee's definately an asset to MOTU
<jjesse> and those that aren't even motu she is great
<Hobbsee> (where is everyone this morning!)
<StevenK> Sleeping, duh.
<Hobbsee> bah.
* ogra waves with the pompoms 
<mjg59> Hobbsee: How do you think Kubuntu can be improved, other than simply by adding new packages and fixing bugs?
* LaserJock lifts ogra on his shoulders
<ogra> haha
* imbrandon steals ogra's pompoms to wave them too
<Hobbsee> mjg59: well, that's certainly a part of it
<Hobbsee> mjg59: since dapper, we've been getting more people interested in development, both me, and then other people as well
<Hobbsee> of course, these people have different levels of skills, and are looking for things to do
<mjg59> Hobbsee: So what sort of integration issues do you see as important?
<Hobbsee> (sorry for bad spelling, i cant see the keyboard)
<Hobbsee> i'm looking at finding things for them to do, and making lists, so that we can put all of our developers to good use, as there's a severe lack of manpower in kubuntu
<Hobbsee> Riddell's awesome, but he is only one man.
<Hobbsee> mjg59: well, stuff like the fact that kubuntu-desktop got removed during upgrade - someone should have tested that, etc.  it took a month or so for a screensaver bug to get fixed
<Hobbsee> all of that could have been done stacks earlier with the right people in place, and the people who are able to fix such bugs/implement such fixes to have the permissions to do it
* Hobbsee suspects that she's going off on a tangent here - sorry, it's still very early
<mjg59> And you have plans for doing so?
<Hobbsee> mjg59: yes :)  
<mjg59> Excellent
<Hobbsee> mjg59: i'll quite likely run out of time though
<mjg59> Happens to the best of us
<Hobbsee> mjg59: so i'll probably need to work out something around that
<mjg59> (Argh, argh, I have far too much to do at the moment)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: as well on the list of uploaders
<Hobbsee> mjg59: i wrote a to-do list yesterday while my car was being serviced - it's shockingly long :P
<mjg59> Riddell: you think Hobbsee would make a good team member, then?
<ogra> Hobbsee, just strike everything that hasnt *buntu in it :)
<Keybuk> mjg59: did you need any more fly spray?
* Hobbsee did a gnome fix recently, and almost died of shock.  :P
<mjg59> Keybuk: The flies are, thankfully, history
<Riddell> mjg59: certainly do
<mjg59> Ok, I think I'm done
<Keybuk> votes@
* ogra cheers a bit more
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<Keybuk> an emphatic +1 from me, Hobbsee has been an asset to the team so far!
<mjg59> +1, based on solid recommendations
<Hobbsee> yay :D
<ogra> YAY
<ogra> congrats Hobbsee 
<StevenK> Woot
<imbrandon> congrats
<Toadstool> congrats Hobbsee 
<Gloubiboulga_> congrats Hobbsee :)
* jjesse cheers for Hobbsee
<gnomefreak> congrats Hobbsee  ;)
<LaserJock> \o/
<Tonio_> congratulations Hobbsee, you really deserve it
<Hobbsee> guess i'll have to seriously think about core dev now hey?
<Hobbsee> thankyou all :D
<mjg59> Anyone else?
<toma> Hobbsee: concrats!
* ogra puts on more sane clothes again in case elmo lurks 
* imbrandon does a little dance , sings a little song .... oops wrong chan
<Toadstool> mjg59: yep, me
<Keybuk> Toadstool: you're up next
<Toadstool> ok thx Keybuk 
<Hobbsee> haha
<Toadstool> I am Jrmie Corbier.
<Toadstool> I've been using Ubuntu since Warty and been working on it for about 6 months. I've started with my wide-dhcpv6 package then I've continued with triaging and fixing random bugs. Now i'm packaging a few more apps and libs (mmpython is now in universe and Debian sid). I'm working on slim and freevo too.
<Toadstool> LP: https://launchpad.net/people/jcorbier
<Toadstool> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeremieCorbier
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: :p
<Keybuk> Toadstool: what kinds of things have you been doing in Ubuntu so far?
<Keybuk> and what kinds of things would you like to do if approved for upload?
<Toadstool> I've done a lot of bug triaging and/or fixing in Universe
<Toadstool> and I'll keep on working as an Ubuntu squad member
<Keybuk> you also do transaltion work, I believe?
<Toadstool> indeed
<Toadstool> not as much as I would like though
<ogra> Toadstool is quite active in #ubuntu-bugs 
<Keybuk> who has been sponsoring your uploads to date?
<Toadstool> Gloubiboulga_, crimsun mainly
<crimsun> I've sponsored a few. Jrmie has been doing great work with universe packaging.
<Toadstool> and bddebian
<Toadstool> there are others
<Toadstool> dholbach too but he's not here
<LaserJock> I sponsored one of his AMD64 fixes for ghemical, he is also helping a bit with MOTU Science which has been a help
<Gloubiboulga_> yep, his bug fixes are always nice and I never had to tell him to change a thing
<Gloubiboulga_> I've also published some of his comments on REVU, and he is really helpuful on #ubuntu-motu too
<Toadstool> I forwarded the AMD64 fix for ghemical to Debian and upstream and it was included
<LaserJock> yeah, that was nice work
<Toadstool> unfortunately, ghemical is heavily broken for the moment :/
<Keybuk> and what kinds of things would you like to do if approved for upload?
<LaserJock> Toadstool: it just needs a sync actually :-)
<Toadstool> yeah? nice :)
<Toadstool> Keybuk: keep on working on bugs first and package some more apps, and help MOTU wannabe
<Toadstool> +s
<mjg59> Toadstool: You've done quite a lot of work in collaboration with Debian. What other things do you think we could do to improve that?
<Toadstool> there a lot of things moving in the way patches are given back to debian iirc, in the pts for example
<Toadstool> and a new chan on oftc has been created to improve communication with debian and 'im already on it :)
<mjg59> Excellent
<Toadstool> unfortunately it doesn't have as success as I would have expected first
<Toadstool> maybe a lack of advertisement
<Toadstool> i'm trying to report as many debian packaging bugs as possible in the debian bts too
<mjg59> I approve wholeheartedly
<Toadstool> and when i package something i try to get it included in sid too
<Toadstool> so far, my two packages are in universe and sid
<Keybuk> http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20060718.201847.4d546c27.en.html
<Keybuk> Toadstool: how do you think we can combat reactions like that ^ from Debian people?
<Keybuk> this particular maintainer's response to Ubuntu e-mailing patches has been to killfile us
<Toadstool> well, that's a pity that some debian maintainer react this way
<Toadstool> maybe show them that our patches are worth the inclusion in debian by posting them in the bts first
<Toadstool> when they don't want to consider the inclusion using the new pts stuff
<Toadstool> otoh that's a huge amount of work
<Toadstool> maybe there should have a collaboration team, the same as utnubu on debian side
<Toadstool> s/there/we/
<Keybuk> did you see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DCT ?
<lucas> :p
<Toadstool> no, I'm on it, lucas just told me about it :)
<lucas> I was just saying to Toadstool that we should talk together about it
<Keybuk> mjg59: any other questions?
<mjg59> Nope, I'm good
<Keybuk> votes?
<mjg59> +1 for seeming competence and a great attitude towards working with Debian
<Keybuk> +1 from me also
<Toadstool> thanks everybody :)
<imbrandon> congrats Toadstool ;)
<Hobbsee> yay Toadstool!
<Tonio_> congrats Toadstool :)
<Gloubiboulga_> congrats Toadstool :)
<Keybuk> anyone else for ubuntu-dev who didn't make it to an earlier meeting?
* Hobbsee looks down the list.  dotn see anyone
<lucas> (just privmsgd to Keybuk:) it would be great if, after processing dev candidates, we could discuss the DCT a bit. I haven't had a lot of feedback from the ubuntu side.
<Keybuk> ok, let's move onto core-dev
<Keybuk> Tonio_: ?
<Tonio_> yes
<Tonio_> I'm Anthony Mercatante, most of you know me as a kubuntu developper and motu
<Hobbsee> Tonio_'s going for core!  cool!
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: attempting at least 
<Tonio_> Although I'm not very active as a motu, most of my work is currently done in the main section
<Tonio_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AnthonyMercatante
<Tonio_> here is my wikipage
<Tonio_> https://launchpad.net/people/tonio/+packages
<Tonio_> and the launchpad packages one
<Keybuk> ok, so what kinds of things would you like to be doing in main?
<Keybuk> further Kubuntu work?  Who has been sponsoring you so far?
<Tonio_> Keybuk: mostly Riddell of course
<Riddell> yep, lots of kubuntu-default-settings uploads from Tonio_ and a good number of others too
<Tonio_> I'm currently maintaining a bunch of main applications, like wlassistant, kmplayer, knetworkmanager, kaffeine...
<Tonio_> and yes, I'm very involved in the kde implementation, configuration and simplification
<Riddell> he's very competant, I can't remember the last time I had to correct something before uploading
<imbrandon> whoops
* Keybuk pipes hold music into the channel
<mjg59> Ah
<Keybuk> aga
<Tonio_> sorry, konversation crached...
<Keybuk> Tonio_: so what kinds of improvements would you like to make to Kubuntu?
<Keybuk> clearly you'll be fixing that bug? :p
<Tonio_> Keybuk: hope so :)
<Tonio_> well currently kubuntu misses a good multimedia infrastructure
<Hobbsee> (Tonio_: ouch.  daily build, or the one in the repos?)
<Tonio_> that should be changed in the future focussing on one application only
<Tonio_> there are also lots of things to be done to get a fully logic and wel implemented kde destktop
<Tonio_> kde is widely configurable, but requires lots of configuration to be done still
<Keybuk> would you favour kde using gstreamer, or something else?
<Tonio_> we need to focus on the wireless part too, since we don't currently have a wpa capable solution installed out of the box
<Tonio_> Keybuk: I would probably favour gstreamer, yes, because it is certainly the most promissing
<Tonio_> Keybuk: and afaik, it has great chances to be used with kde4
<Tonio_> so here are the most important things I would like to focus on in the next weeks
<Keybuk> *nods*, interesting
<Keybuk> Riddell: these are your packages, would you welcome Tonio_ into main?
<Riddell> Keybuk: very much so
<RichJ> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 14:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Keybuk> mjg59: any questions?
<mjg59> Tonio_: Do you think you can help get Kubuntu to the same level of polish and integration as Ubuntu?
<Tonio_> mjg59: I hope so, since it is clearly what I'm claiming for month :)
<Hobbsee> mjg59: only with a lot of work.
<Tonio_> mjg59: anyway, that will probably require more than just my contribution
<mjg59> Tonio_: On the bright side, I see you've been doing a lot of work on infrastructure that both Ubuntu and Kubuntu can use
<mjg59> My heartfelt thanks for that :)
<ogra> Tonio_, well, you have Hobbsee now :)
<imbrandon> but the kubuntu team is comming along nicely specialy with Tonio_
<Tonio_> mjg59: well, networkmanager and bluez-utils mostly
<mjg59> Tonio_: How closely do you work with upstream?
<imbrandon> and Hobbsee ;P
<Tonio_> mjg59: depends if there are or not respondive ;)
<mjg59> Heh
<mjg59> But you make an effort?
<Tonio_> I'm regularly in kontact with lots of them, and they most of the time include my patches
<mjg59> Excellent
<mjg59> Ok, I think I'm done
<ogra> in kontact ?
<mjg59> Keybuk: You?
<Tonio_> mjg59: I generally always try to get my patches and packages improvements upstream
<Keybuk> I'm done
<Tonio_> that's the goal
<mjg59> Votes?
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: when you misspell kontact and konversation, you certainly spend too much time working on kde :P
<ogra> yeah
<imbrandon> heh
<Keybuk> +1 from me
<mjg59> +1 from me for plainly being excellent (asuming what everyone tells me is true :p)
<ogra> thats what i thought too
<Tonio_> ;)
<Hobbsee> yay Tonio_!
<Toadstool> congrats Tonio_ :)
<ogra> congrats Tonio_ 
<ogra> !
<Hobbsee> mjg59: it's better not to think about if it's true or not, i'm sure :P
<Tonio_> thank you very much everybody !
<toma> nice day for kubuntu!
<Hobbsee> toma: very!
<Tonio_> toma: hehe
<imbrandon> very nice toma 
<imbrandon> ;)
* Hobbsee looks for something for toma to work on :P
* toma ducks
<imbrandon> toma HIDE !!
<Keybuk> ok, last up is Linda
<Keybuk> err, I mean Steven
<StevenK> Hah
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> Hrm, Steven doesn't fire my nick hilight.
<ogra> lol
<Hobbsee> go StevenK!
<StevenK> I'm Steve Kowalik, Debian Developer since 2001, and an MOTU to boot.
<Hobbsee> (and the poor bugger who uploads a lot of my packages)
<StevenK> I hope to look at Edgy specs and help out with a few that interest me, specifically about-ubuntu, spoken-boot and a few others that escape me at the moment.
<imbrandon> and the poor guy that has given me alot of MOTU training ( along with many others )
<StevenK> I hope to do the same thing with main, offering to sponsor patches from people and upload them into main.
<StevenK> It'd be kinda nice to request a sync for Linda, too.
<StevenK> Um. I'd also say general merges for main, but the bulk of that will have to wait until Edgy+1
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> Have you got anything in main at the moment?
<StevenK> Linda, but it wasn't me who put her there.
<mjg59> So an obvious question is "What would you do with core-dev that you can't currently do"?
<StevenK> I have spent some spare time over the last few days looking over main bugs, but nothing really struck me as being easily patched.
<mjg59> You've suggested sponsoring other people
<mjg59> Do you think that it's currently difficult to get stuff sponsored into main?
<StevenK> Yes, sponsoring other people, along with bug fixes, and helping out with work if people ask me.
<StevenK> I don't think it is, but many hands make light work, and also other people may not be around to build/test/upload.
<Hobbsee> (personally, i find the stuff in main hard to get uploaded, due to my timezone)
<mjg59> I guess I feel that it would be good to see more work with main first, but I don't know how Scott feels
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Like you can claim yourself being in the Australia/Sydney timezone.
<mjg59> Keybuk: ?
<Keybuk> I must admit that I feel the same, despite his track record in Debian
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i mostly can.  except for staying up till 2am each morning. 
<Keybuk> we do things slightly differently in Ubuntu, and it would be good to see more example of his work in main first
<mjg59> StevenK: Would you be open to spending more time working with main in the Edgy cycle and then revisiting this when we come to Edgy+1?
<StevenK> Indeed.
<mjg59> I'm not concerned about you screwing things up, but it's nice to have evidence that you'll use the rights granted :)
* StevenK nods.
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: pm?
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: it's not that pm here yet
<mjg59> Keybuk: Anything else?
<Keybuk> on StevenK, nothing from me
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: :P  i meant private message.
<Keybuk> lucas wanted to have a few moments
<lucas> yup, I wanted to discuss DCT
<lucas> since it was raised earlier
<lucas> I even have a few intro lines :
<mjg59> StevenK: Ok - sorry about that, but with luck we'll see you back here soon
<lucas> The Debian Collaboration Team (or DCT, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DCT ) is an Ubuntu team aiming at improving collaboration between Ubuntu and Debian by tracking changes in Ubuntu's packages.
<lucas> It's not an automatic process like Scott's patches, but instead requires collaboration from *volunteer* Debian developers :
<lucas> - DCT team members agree to file bugs in the BTS for all relevant issues
<lucas> - the DD agrees to act promptly on those bugs
<lucas> The advantage is that we limit ourselves to DD who actually want to collaborate, and don't lose time sending patches to maintainers who killfile us.
<lucas> Questions:
<lucas> - What do you think ?
<lucas> - Ideas for improvement ?
<lucas> - Volunteers ? :)
<mjg59> lucas: It sounds like a good way of building trust
<mjg59> Would you need any technical resources that aren't currently available?
<lucas> I don't think so
<lucas> we'll need a tool to keep track of what has been reviewed
<lucas> but it will most likely be web-based, and web hosting is not a problem
<LaserJock> do you think its a good thing to focus down the people involved rather than try to improve the overall Debian-Ubuntu collaboration
<Keybuk> I'm a little confused ... you talk about DDs there?  What would be Ubuntu's contribution to the DCT?
<mjg59> lucas: Presumably you meant volunteer Ubuntu developers, rather than volunteer Debian developers?
<lucas> there are volunteers on both side :
<ogra> Keybuk, it has two sides ... both of them agree to collaborate ...
<lucas> volunteer ubuntu devs agree to work inside DCT (some ubuntu devs don't care about debian)
<Keybuk> how will patches/issues/etc. be judged to be relevant?
<Keybuk> one of the problems so far has been deciding whether a patch is worth submitting to Debian
<lucas> volunteer DDs agree to respond very fast to bug reports, so they are useful for ubuntu too
<mjg59> From a technical side of things, I don't see any issue
<lucas> the litmus test would be "things we changed that should be changed in debian too"
<Keybuk> lucas: a useful feature for you might be ... the patch mailer (that does the ubuntu-patches mailing list, and sends to the PTS) allows custom subscriptions
<Keybuk> so you can subscribe to lists of packages, etc.
<Keybuk> lucas: how about where we differ to Debian?  e.g. udev, or our use of /var/run, or our non-use of /emul, etc.
<lucas> I think the list-of-packages-management would probably be more complex than this, but there might be code to re-use
<lucas> well, it's of course not about pushing such decisions to debian
<lucas> one of the problem is to review patches and know which changes are relevant to debian, which requires good knowledge of both sides
<Keybuk> a good plan might be to draft up a description of what volunteers would need to do, and use ubuntu-devel to get early ones
<Keybuk> and once the thing is up and running, ubuntu-devel-announce to get more
<lucas> yup, that's what I started doing on the wiki page
<LaserJock> I'd be a bit worried though that it might send a message that Ubuntu people don't have to worry about upstream, "somebody'll take care of it"
<LaserJock> do you think that could become a problem?
<lucas> ideally, all ubuntu developers would understand that debian matters a lot, and that reducing divergence makes our life easier
<lucas> but it's clear that some ubuntu devs have never used debian, and don't really understand the relationship between ubuntu & debian
<lucas> (that's a different issue, and it was already raised during the debian/ubuntu discussion at debconf, I think)
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> does anybody have any questions for lucas?
<lucas> :p
<mjg59> I think it sounds like a good plan
<Keybuk> agree
<Keybuk> lucas: good luck with it, if there's any technical resources you need, they can most likely be arranged
<lucas> ok
<Keybuk> any other business?
<Keybuk> adjourned then
<Keybuk> thanks everybody
<ogra> thanks Keybuk 
<Hobbsee> thanks Keybuk :)
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: i can go break things now :D
* Keybuk goes back to the cake
<ogra> haha
<Hobbsee> hey!  i want some of the cake!  early birthday present!
<ogra> Hobbsee, rather a late one, its nearly over :P
<Hobbsee> ogra: birthday's on saturday..
<ogra> Hobbsee, i mean Keybuks :), but thanks, noted in the calendar :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: ah right, yes.
<Hobbsee> ohhh...yes...of course
<Hobbsee> he
<Hobbsee> h
<toma> did anyone say Cake ?
<Hobbsee> toma: hehe
<ogra> yes, but he left after that sentence ...
<toma> any leftover?
<ogra> well, he hasnr baked it yet :(
<ogra> *hasnt
<Hobbsee> ogra: whenver i end up making it to a dev conference, you can cook us all a cake :P
<ogra> lol, but only if i'm allowed to bake it ... i doubt cooked cake has a pleasant consistency :P
<Hobbsee> ogra: sure
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i'm sure you will make it to one of the next confs 
<Hobbsee> ogra: yeah.  maybe.  if i get sponsored.
<Seveas> Hobbsee, hmm, than I can @lart you irl 
<ogra> hehe
* Seveas should remember to bring a soggy sock
<Hobbsee> Seveas: and i can kick you in real life.
<Hobbsee> :D
<ogra> yeah, Seveas is long overdue for a conf
<simira> Hobbsee: you aren't going to Wiesbaden?
<ogra> yeah, that'd be cool !
<Hobbsee> simira: to *where*?  when?
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSprintWiesbaden
<Hobbsee> wiesbaden sounds like it's in germany somewhere...
<Hobbsee> oh yay!  i got it right!
<ogra> yup it is
<ogra> its a suburb of franfurt 
<raphink> congrats Hobbsee
<ogra> *frankfurt
<Hobbsee> ogra: not sure that i'd be much use there, i'm probably of more use at edgy+1 developer conference, although i expect that's a bit close to exams
* ogra looks around for wiesbadeners wanting to kill him
<Hobbsee> um, okay?
<simira> are there any here?
<ogra> luckily not ...
* Seveas can take the ICE and be in frankfurt in a few hours
<ogra> but they dont like it to be called a franfurt suburb :)
<Seveas> but alas, I don't want to kill ogra 
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> Seveas: you'd far prefer to kill me, yes, we know.
<ogra> Seveas, so pop in for an afternoon and a dinner or something :)
<Seveas> ogra, ICE tickets are expensive 
<ogra> pfft 
<ogra> money is relative :P
<Seveas> yes, I have relatively little of it 
<ogra> heh
<Hobbsee> raphink: thanks :)
<raphink> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-19
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<digitalmouse> brr!!!  cold in here.... must be the Fridge!  greetings programs!
<markit86> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 19 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 21:00: Technical Board
<stefg> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
<highvoltage> @schedule Johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
<coachJ> when does the mtg start?
<ompaul> ~15 minutes
<coachJ> k
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
* mhz gets some coffee
<ogra> good idea
* ogra makes some
<coachJ> too late in the afternoon foe coffee here
* HedgeMage makes iced tea
<highvoltage> for all of us? ;)
<ogra> meep
<LaserJock>  here
<cbx33> oooh thanky Hawkwind 
<cbx33> whoops
<cbx33> HedgeMage, 
* ogra waits a second for his cofee to finish ... and to raise the tension :)
<RichEd> greetz
* mhz makes coffee, colombian nice one, for all
<HedgeMage> hehe
* highvoltage is in bed with laptop, but still awake
<coachJ> lol
* cbx33 prods highvoltage 
<cbx33> get out of bed :p
<RichEd> laptop ... some kind of euphemism ?
<highvoltage> ouch
<HedgeMage> rofl
<coachJ> mtg be good for highvoltage's sake
<cbx33> eeeewwww
<highvoltage> RichEd: luckily not
<ogra> ok, lets go :)
* cbx33 starts running round the meeting room
<cbx33> oh you mean the meeting....
<ogra> not much on the tech side as usual :)
<ogra> we have a knot 1 milestone CD 
<highvoltage> the first knot is tied, right?
<cbx33> w00t
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> which in fact took me since friday to get everything right
<highvoltage> anyone install it yet?
<cbx33> not yet
<ogra> but now we have something we can break
<ogra> muhahaha
<highvoltage> mhuhaha
* cbx33 volunteers to break things
* ogra pokes rodarvus with an evil look in his eyes
<Mithrandir> knot-1 is all but released, yet.  That is, I'll release it tomorrow morning, since I've drunk something closer to a bottle of wine now and I don't think I should futz around with cd images then. :-P
<Mithrandir> s/yet/yes/
<ogra> Mithrandir, well, it wont change anymore :)
<ogra> enjoy your wine :)
* highvoltage will download tomorrow
<cbx33> and the hangover
<Mithrandir> ogra: true. :-)
<ogra> highvoltage, keep the iso around so you can try cbx33's gui sync tool ;)
<cbx33> I was gonna mention that
<cbx33> if anyone is interested in beta testing grasynco
* mhz wanna plays with it too!
<rodarvus> hi
<rodarvus> sorry
<cbx33> it's on REVU at the moment
<ogra> soo ... apart from that there is not much n the tech side ... 
<rodarvus> I was concentrated updating libx11
<cbx33> and also on LP
<highvoltage> ogra: i intend to do that!
* rodarvus reads the backlog
<cbx33> may I ask you all to keep a backup of the isos....just in case
<ogra> the ltsp tarball builder script is nearly done ...
<cbx33> :D
<HedgeMage> :)
<cbx33> unless you don;t mind downloading again
<highvoltage> cbx33: just beware, I'm quite crazy with feature requests, just ask ogra :)
<ogra> the first try can be seen on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-tarballs/
<cbx33> highvoltage, that's cool
<cbx33> I'll try to accomodate
<ogra> highvoltage, heh, yes, you are (sometimes :) )
<LaserJock> where are we with specs?
<highvoltage> ogra: have ltsp upsream made any announcement yet?
<ogra> LaserJock, SCP is still lacking some love, i'll jump on that tomorrow ...
* cbx33 will be jumping on that too
<ogra> highvoltage, nope, the system needs to run automatically
<cbx33> but I'll wait till ogra has finished
<cbx33> otherwise people may talk :p
<LaserJock> ogra: LTSP specs are looking good?
<ogra> what you see on the url is the first test run
<highvoltage> ogra: what would be the difference between those tarballs ans a standard Edubuntu ltsp chroot?
<ogra> LaserJock, well, the udeb is ready now to add the dhcp stuff ... SCP isnt approved yet but i had no time to fix stuff, mdz is notified
<highvoltage> ogra: are they mostly the same so far?
<ogra> ltspfs stuff isnt started yet
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> highvoltage, they are 100% the same
<HedgeMage> If anyone's interested, we are planning a meeting for Edubuntu Handbook (formerly Cookbook) Friday at 21:30 (just scheduled, so may not be on fridge yet, I'll post to the mailing lists momentarily)
<ogra> but we'll have arch specific ones ;)
<highvoltage> ok. so no need to download then.
<ogra> HedgeMage, docs are next 
<HedgeMage> ogra: oops, sorry
<ogra> highvoltage, nope, but if you ever want powerpc clients you can just grab the tarball ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: i'll keep that in mind!
<ogra> no need for fiddling around with nfs exports 
<ogra> i'll probably make an installer package that downloads and unpacks it 
<highvoltage> with a cbx33 front-end?
<ogra> so you can install ltsp-multiarch-powerpc 
<highvoltage> *g*
<ogra> heh
<cbx33> highvoltage, if you really really want it :p
<ogra> or ltsp-multiarch-sparc ;)
<highvoltage> cbx33: of course :)
<cbx33> dang it :p
<ogra> highvoltage, well, that should be an extra tab in ltsp-manager rather :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: the LTSP people would love that
<ogra> soo ...
<cbx33> highvoltage, wanna mail me a brief outline
<ogra> thats all from the tech side for this week ... i have noting t addd
<cbx33> sometime and I'll see what I can dig up
<ogra> documentation ? 
<highvoltage> cbx33: sure, we can chat about it tomorrow on #edubuntu, then send to the mailing list and get some larger input
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> we can build it onto ogras ltsp manager
<ogra> HedgeMage, the CookBook was renamed ? 
<highvoltage> cool.
<HedgeMage> ogra: yep, at our last meeting.
<ogra> HedgeMage, tell us about it, since not everyone was there :)
<mhz> please
<HedgeMage> ogra: Since it's not quite a cookbook format any more, we decided to vote for a new title... people posted suggestions to the wiki and our last meeting was a vote
<HedgeMage> it's now the "Edubuntu Handbook"
<ogra> great 
<cbx33> :D
<HedgeMage> Same fun stuff, new title :)
<mhz> EHB
<highvoltage> i think it's a good idea, merely because it will eliminate confusion about all the previous cookbook attempts :)
<cbx33> I agree
<ogra> yup
<mhz> yup
<HedgeMage> That's the icing on the cake :)
<rodarvus> heh
<highvoltage> lol
<mhz> and it will be more 'handy' :D
<HedgeMage> Anyhow, we have a meeting on Friday, wiki info is at http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuHandbook
<ogra> btw LaserJock was praised in http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1990777,00.asp :)
<highvoltage> also on documentation, does anyone know what the best way is, and whether we should, get the edubuntu docs on http://help.ubuntu.com?
<HedgeMage> I haven't updated the meeting page yet since this was scheduled literally 5 minutes ago :)
<cbx33> highvoltage, I talked with mdke about that a while ago
<ogra> highvoltage, all wiki docs are there already
<highvoltage> all the other official ubuntu distros docs are there, I think Edubuntu should be there too, since people would ask.
<cbx33> you need permissions to create new pages
<highvoltage> ogra: it's not listed on the front page: http://help.ubuntu.com
<ogra> oh
<ogra> but they imported all our pages ... i have a painful slow redirect for nearly every wikipage
<cbx33> is anything going to be done about the ssl certificate on the wiki?
<ogra> i dont think so
<cbx33> grrr
<ogra> i could raise it agan ... but paied certs are not the best topic to dicuss with mark somehow :)
<highvoltage> yes, I think I'll ping mdke this weekend and ask if he could add an Edubuntu section on the frontpage of help.
<mhz> it is not wiki's fault (not moin)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> mhz, I know
<cbx33> ogra, ok cool
<ogra> mhz, we have bought one afaik, but thats limited to ubuntu.com
<cbx33> highvoltage, yes good idea
<mhz> grr!
<mhz> :)
<highvoltage> that's ironic.
<cbx33> I'll do the same, as I'm owed a creatoin account on help.ubuntu.com i think :p
<LaserJock> highvoltage: we would have to ship something to put it in help.ubuntu.com
<mhz> but, isn't markie related to Certificates?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: does it need to be in a certain format?
<ogra> Riddell, do you know anything about the certs ? i know you asked about them
<peterretief> highvoltage: hi
<LaserJock> highvoltage: those docs are created from the doc team svn repo
<highvoltage> mhz: it's how he made his money :)
<highvoltage> hi peterretief 
<mhz> yeah, hence my point
<Riddell> ogra: filed an rt request, not heard anything back, feel free to poke harder
<ogra> mhz, quote: "i've seen enough certs in my life"
<HedgeMage> lol
<rodarvus> :)
<ogra> Riddell, rt # ?
<mhz> lol
<Riddell> ogra: no idea, it was ages ago
<highvoltage> LaserJock: we could probably get someone from docteam to help us out? there should be some people who are common in edubuntu-doc and ubuntu-doc that I'm sure would assist.
<ogra> Riddell, lol, ok
<LaserJock> highvoltage: umm, jerome and I are happy to help
<cbx33> highvoltage, what about jerome
* ogra doubts we'll get one :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: excellent :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: edubuntu school advocacy is already on doc.ubuntu.com
<cbx33> is it ?
<cbx33> crikey
<LaserJock> highvoltage: mdke made an Edubuntu css
<mhz> is it???
* cbx33 must have missed that one
<ogra> wasnt that renamed ? 
<highvoltage> great. so it just needs a link from the home page.
<LaserJock> yes, I had them make an Edubuntu section
<LaserJock> doc.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> on the right there is an Edubuntu section
<highvoltage> doc.ubuntu.com is meant for work in progress, right?
<cbx33> I see
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> doc.ubuntu.com represents our svn repo
<highvoltage> ESA is completed, isn't it?
<cbx33> is there the possibility of ESA making it onto help.ubuntu.com?
<cbx33> or is that not the place for it?
<mhz> lovely http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/index.html
<highvoltage> cbx33: thinking the same thing here :)
<LaserJock> help.ubuntu.com has what has been shipped
<ogra> wow, esa is impressive
<highvoltage> i think ESA should be on help.ubuntu.com as well.
<LaserJock> we have a doc team meeting on Friday
<cbx33> we try ogra :p
<LaserJock> I can ask
<cbx33> thanks LaserJock 
<LaserJock> so far we have only put the docs that were shipped on CD on help.ubuntu.com
<ogra> highvoltage, it is
<Burgwork> I have a half finished case study, using some of the stuff from esa
<cbx33> the ESA gets everywhere
<highvoltage> ogra: i can't find it
<ogra> wow ... your doc work is massively impressive guys :)
* mhz is happy some folks will have no excuse to translate ESA into spanish now
<ogra> highvoltage, the link mhz pasted
<cbx33> yes please
<LaserJock> so from the doc team's perspective I think we are ready to go, we just need content
<mhz> highvoltage: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/index.html
<highvoltage> ogra: that's on doc.ubuntu.com, not on help.ubuntu.com
<cbx33> I passed the esa to RichEd to pass onto the canonical marketting dept
<mhz> highvoltage: yeah, good point
<ogra> highvoltage, aww, now i understand 
<ogra> cbx33, good !
<RichEd> yep ... got it open .. will review & coment
<mhz> please, not redirections this time
<mhz> ;)
<cbx33> RichEd, if you want my page mockups feel free to take those
<RichEd> okay
<cbx33> they were a mock of what the pamphlet could look like
<cbx33> hang on I'll grab a link
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
<cbx33> ignore everything on the page
<cbx33> apart from the 4 images at the bottom
<LaserJock> hehe
<ogra> heh
<RichEd> tx
<cbx33> I'll delete it I think
<mhz> cbx33: where's the mockup?
<cbx33> down the very bottom
<mhz> oh, still downloading
<mhz> thx
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> that was our wip page
<mhz> cbx33: nice mockup idea
<cbx33> ESA started like that before any text was written really :p
<HedgeMage> :)
<LaserJock> anyway, if anybody wants docs to go on doc.ubuntu.com (and eventually help.ubuntu.com) please let the doc team or at least jerome or I know
<mhz> cbx33: I am working on one for Chile (with Chilean colors)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok
<highvoltage> sounds like doc discussion is quieting down?
<ogra> well, then lets move on
<ogra> aaaaaaartwork
<ogra> whoops
<mhz> that KBD!
<mhz> ;)
<highvoltage> i think you missed an 'a' there
<AliasVegas> Hi everyone
<ogra> heh, i'm not 100% used to it yet :)
<mhz> AliasVegas: hi
<highvoltage> hi AliasVegas. just in time :)
<ogra> hey AliasVegas nice to see you !
<HedgeMage> hi AliasVegas 
<AliasVegas> I'm really glad that so many people like the edubuntu wallpaper that I did, and I think it's crucial to build on the success of that in the edgy release.
<ogra> yay
* HedgeMage wants to request that someone with more talent than HedgeMage start thinking about appropriate cover art for the Handbook
<mhz> HedgeMage: I can propose something
<AliasVegas> Yeah, I'll see what I can do if you want
<highvoltage> AliasVegas: I've set you as administrator on the artwork team, sorry, should have done that earlier :)
* mhz is forced to have more time now
<AliasVegas> What I thought we could do, to make a quick start is just ask for a single line from everyone on what they dislike about the dapper theme (if anything), but to be precise.  Not just, I don't like the chalkboard, but why don't you like the chalkboard, too commercial etc?
<ogra> AliasVegas, great idea !
<mhz> AliasVegas: yeah
<AliasVegas> Then just another single line about what you would like to see in edgy?
<HedgeMage> good idea, AliasVegas :)
<ogra> yup
<highvoltage> AliasVegas: I didn't like the orange hilight in the gtk theme.
<AliasVegas> I was going to then work from these to collate a plan on how we should proceed with the new themes and artwork.  I have some initial ideas, but I don't want to develop them if there are elements which are not going to work or be to peoples liking.
<cbx33> I'll start noting these down
<ogra> highvoltage, by mail :)
<cbx33> heheh
<AliasVegas> thanks
<cbx33> mail would be better
<highvoltage> oh yes, of course :)
<HedgeMage> Don't like: The green chalkboard thing clashes with our red gtk-theme, lacking theme-coordinating icons for some apps I like
<AliasVegas> ok
<highvoltage> to edubuntu-devel? or to AliasVegas?
<ogra> so could anyone who wants to participate say +1 so i know whom i have to nag ? ;)
<ogra> +1
<rodarvus> edubuntu-users wouild be best I think
<highvoltage> +1
<rodarvus> AliasVegas: nice idea, btw
<cbx33> um, could we have edubuntu-artwork ?
<rodarvus> +1
<cbx33> mailing list ?
<peterretief> +1
<mhz> +1
<cbx33> would that be useful?
<highvoltage> cbx33: i've thought about it before, I think it's at the stage where it's ready for it
<ogra> cbx33, how many people would we have on there ? 
<cbx33> anyone with an interest in artwork I'm presuming right AliasVegas ?
<rodarvus> not sure if edubuntu-artwork mailinig list would have critical mass
<LaserJock> I would think -devel and -users would be sufficent
<highvoltage> there are 20 people in launchpad who have volunteered to contribute to artwork
<ogra> cbx33, i want a number :)
<rodarvus> in other words, would probably become a semi-dead mailing list
<highvoltage> they would all be added to the new list
<highvoltage> that's already a good start.
<AliasVegas> yeah
<cbx33> Hmm....
<highvoltage> those who do not wish to be part can then be de-activated from the team.
<mhz> yeah
<highvoltage> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-artwork/+members
<cbx33> I just wonder that in order to get the artowrk team off the ground, they should have their own ML?
<cbx33> just my 2 cents
<mhz> or.. keep using -devel but adding [ART] 
<mhz> on subject
<mhz> just my 2 cents
<mhz> eek, we have 4 cents!
<ogra> cbx33, i will need to give an estimated number of initial subscribers ... its not useful to have a list for 10 people ...
<highvoltage> i wonder if everyone on the launchapd team would be willing to subscribe to edubuntu-devel, we could probably try and ask them
<cbx33> I get so much spam from that channel?
<highvoltage> ogra: we already have at least 20 people! :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: no you don't
<highvoltage> cbx33: you get admin requests ;)
<cbx33> i get spam too
<mhz> cbx33: BTW, I have no logs regarding pwd for ML admin tasks, could you PM it to me, please?
<cbx33> sure
<ogra> highvoltage, well, i havent seen much new artwork during dapper, that was more widespread in breezy
<ogra> the quality raised immensely though :)
<mhz> ogra: AliasVegas is in town now ;)
<ogra> yeah ! :)
<AliasVegas> I want to setup an edubuntu-artwork meeting, for anyone who has any interest in artwork/themes to come along to, so we can really start to brainstorm and get the process moving.  If anyone has some suggestions about times that would be great ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: i think the announcement that canonical would use a paid-for company for artwork killed things a bit, imho :/
<ogra> but still ... she will surely need support ...
<cbx33> highvoltage, I agree
<ogra> highvoltage, yep 
<mhz> AliasVegas: i have a couple of suggestions but based on my UTC
<ogra> highvoltage, but it was like that before as well ...
<mhz> (my TZ)
<ogra> just that nobody announced it before :)
<cbx33> does this kinda time suit mhz ?
<mhz> cbx33: nope
<cbx33> 12 UTC?
<mhz> 11 UTC
<highvoltage> ogra: i beg to differ, if you go to art.ubuntu.com, you'll see quite a few wallpapers that were made for breezy, some of them not too bad
<mhz> so I can be before leaving house
<mhz> cbx33: or 23 UTC
<mhz> :D
<ogra> highvoltage, http://art.ubuntu.com/
<ogra> its down
<cbx33> 23 UTC....
<cbx33> AliasVegas, will be in bed then
<cbx33> :p
<AliasVegas> lol
<mhz> highvoltage: yeah, like the darkones I did because I prefer black for kids :D
<cbx33> we can discuss times later 
<highvoltage> ogra: click on "Edubuntu" on the right. it still works
<ogra> oh no its redesigned :P
<highvoltage> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/
<ogra> yep
<AliasVegas> I'm also going to post a notice to the ubuntu-artwork mailing list explaining where we are at this stage and ask for volunteers to help edubuntu in this release.
<mhz> cbx33: then , we could rotate ;)
<ogra> i know them, i added most of them there 
<cbx33> sure mhz 
<cbx33> I'm sure AliasVegas would be ok with that
<mhz> cbx33: if meetings are weekly, 3 or 4 diff UTCs is good
<AliasVegas> 2 sounds good
<AliasVegas> like edubuntu
<mhz> cbx33: the thing is I am looking for a job now, so most likely is I wont have time for IRC during working hours ;(
<AliasVegas> ogra, can I ask, how much are we at liberty to change in this release, just wallpapers/splashes, or icons, theme colours too?  cbx33 was talking to me about the work he was doing on his new ubrander project, and I wondered how much gtk-rc editing had been done in the past?
<highvoltage> ogra: all of those wallpapers in art.ubuntu.com came from the breezy release cycle
<AliasVegas> fair enough :)
<ogra> AliasVegas, i'm sure it must be done in communication with the artteam ...
<ogra> so that we have a recognizable ubuntu look for all distros ...
<mhz> .oO(hmmm, the *buntu look)
<AliasVegas> ok that sounds cool
<ogra> a kind of CI
<AliasVegas> Not much more to say really, I'm conscious of the time factors involved and have just finished some of my paid freelance work, so I should have some more time to devote to getting the ball rolling here.
<ogra> but we'll surely have freedom about colors, icons splash screens gdm login theme bootsplash etc 
<AliasVegas> ok :)
<ogra> there is only some small gtkrc editing been doneby me 
<ogra> mostly adjusting colors 
<ogra> (based on a completely different orange wallpaper btw)
<AliasVegas> right
<mhz> AliasVegas: i am VERY interested in creating 'artwork' for Stands (posters, stuff to hang -no idea about english name for it , stand look, etc) 
<cbx33> mhz, cool
<mhz> and all related to merchandising
<mhz> Edubuntu based, of course
<cbx33> I'd need that if BETT2007 went ahead
<HedgeMage> that's awesome, mhz 
<AliasVegas> Posters sounds like a cool idea
<ogra> mhz, ++
* cbx33 imagines darting around town on his blades putting up edubuntu posters all around town
<mhz> yeah, Teachers loved the idea of having Edubuntu T-Shirts for Labs
<cbx33> then getting nicked by the rozzers :p
<HedgeMage> hehe cbx33 
<mhz> and then I thought about Posters for Edubuntu Labs (with messages for the users)
<AliasVegas> I love the idea of t-shirts
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> mhz, heheh.... "Got root....no...cos if you did you'd break things"
<mhz> lol
<cbx33> I think I just found my new tagline :p
<ogra> but posters at least for booths would be grreat
<highvoltage> cbx33: they can have root on the ro local filesystem :)
<cbx33> hahaha
<cbx33> give them the illusion
<ogra> heh
<mhz> yeah, we need promo material so people (human beings) know Edubuntu is not just an OS, it is meant for "YOU"
<cbx33> awww
<ogra> ogra, time is almost up ...
<HedgeMage> :)
<ogra> err 
<cbx33> what about some fluffy Eft soft toys
<ogra> i wrote ok ... 
<highvoltage> flint said that we have done a good job at keeping edubuntu secret.
<ogra> stupid autocompletion
<mhz> www.openpuppets.com
* cbx33 has always had a vision
<highvoltage> so getting edubuntu out there is perhaps something everyone should work on.
<ogra> highvoltage, bah, flint said also that k12 doesnt like us :)
<cbx33> we need someone to streak a major sporting event wearing nothing but ubuntu logos :p
<cbx33> get us on the TV
<highvoltage> ogra: point taken :)
<RichEd> i'm willing to take marketing suggestions forward : richard.edubuntu@gmail.com
* mhz got Edubuntu on TV in Chile
<cbx33> highvoltage, I totally agree....hence my initial creation of ESA
<mhz> and a couple of magazines too
<ogra> right
<ogra> next topic management :)
<ogra> since you are already at promotion
<RichEd> especially those that take it out of the "hobbyist" space into mainstream
<RichEd> well perhaps an intro from me ?
<LaserJock> that would be nice :-)
<ogra> if you like :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: sounds like no one is objecting ;)
<RichEd> Mark has just appointed me as "Education Programme Manager" last week ... to be client & relationship facing
<ogra> i also have something ... for the management side later
<HedgeMage> RichEd: welcome :)
<RichEd> The way I see it is that you guys are building a great eductional vehicle ... 
<cbx33> :)
<mhz> RichEd: oh, you are the one!!
<highvoltage> RichEd: yes, welcome again
<RichEd> and my job is to get as many people adopting it a possible.
<RichEd> I've been in the Education space with HP for 3 years
<RichEd> Schools, education departments etc.
<cbx33> give me an external scsi hdd and I'll have an ltsp server running at the school :p
<RichEd> And seen lots of the "soft factors" that hamper adoption
<RichEd> "we don't have budget to train in MS and Linux"
<mhz> hehehe
<LaserJock> Universities!!
<RichEd> "we don't have enough tech support"
<highvoltage> RichEd: this would be internationally, right?
<RichEd> so we need to build a compelling case for "overcoming the human hurdles"
<RichEd> yep ... international ...
<RichEd> So I am here to help ... not interfere ;)
<mhz> RichEd: thx, then I have lots of stuff tu bug you with
<ogra> RichEd, we'll gain some ground in germany soon it seems ... :)
<LaserJock> awesome, thanks. I should be fun
<RichEd> And will try to take ideas from the community ..., as well as requests from "the clients"
<LaserJock> s/I/It/ shesh
<RichEd> And put them in front of the people who can make it happen.
* HedgeMage nods
* cbx33 notes he is a client as well :p
<ogra> i had another call from the guy that is affiliated with the minisrty of education and arts of bayern ...
<highvoltage> we're going to cover *lots* of ground in .za from Inkululeku
* RichEd sits down again
<RichEd> ogra: great
<highvoltage> it's probably no 'edubuntu' stricktly, because we currently use Xfce
<ogra> looks like he has arranged stuff like TV interviews etc
<mhz> highvoltage: me too! :D
<ogra> in september ... 
<highvoltage> but we're going to sign up as official ubuntu partner, so i guess it would count as official.
<ogra> we'll need to talk since he wants me to represent 
<RichEd> brb 15 secs
<cbx33> highvoltage, what does that entail?>
<cbx33> the partner thing?
<mhz> RichEd: well, we have a very agressive insertion plan this year for Chile, so I'd  better sum it up and email it to you
<RichEd> mhz: please yes
<highvoltage> cbx33: http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/become
<RichEd> jsgotangco also has some exciting stuff happenng in Philipines
<cbx33> RichEd, is there the possibility of coming up with a "pack" to send to educational iministers etc
<RichEd> (apart from an active volcano close to his house spewing lava)
<cbx33> about edubuntu>
<mhz> lol
<RichEd> cbx33: Mark has asked me to get "a directed education message" set up ...
<RichEd> web site & pdf
<RichEd> for exactly that purpose
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> esa could be useful there Lp
<cbx33> :p
<RichEd> We also have a reporter in India who is pushing for Ubuntu / 6Eubuntu as a C development teaching platform in 60 schools
<ogra> nice !
<RichEd> With a route into showing the local govt. how to do it ... and avoid the MS win & sql licence fees
<mhz> yeah, this is the Year of Edubuntu
<cbx33> RichEd, yeh see this is what we nned
<cbx33> mhz, I agree
<RichEd> And he has a Post Grad student in Florida who is a sidebar assistant
<RichEd> So lots of opportunity to mine.
<ogra> sounds very cool 
* cbx33 is thinking about drafting some letters to the Educational authorities in UK
<cbx33> RichEd, that pack would be useful :p
<mhz> cbx33: ESA has lots of the arguments we'd need
<cbx33> yes
<RichEd> Note also that I hope to use my relationship with HP Education Country managers (Europe & ZA & Africa) to try to push Edubuntu
<cbx33> excellent
<cbx33> RichEd, how viable do you think BETT2007 is?
<RichEd> (in their solution deals) as well as for Student OEM offerings
<highvoltage> RichEd: would be nice if you could round them all up again ;)
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> RichEd: Any notes/news about the US?
<RichEd> As I said earlier cbx33 : we have some routes of least resistance ... like india etc. so not sure if the "money people" will be keen on "ad spend" 
<RichEd> Versus applied project spend
<mhz> RichEd: in Chile and other countries we're getting together to form the Institute of Free Software for Latinamerica. Edubuntu is the king in such realms
<cbx33> if we're going to shower the auths with details they must see us ..... in the field like everyone else
<cbx33> RichEd, I understand
<cbx33> on a side note, did that spreadsheet seem ok?
<RichEd> But will table all suggestions when I have to present a plan to Mark in week 1 Aug in London
<RichEd> I'll try to cover all bases in suggestions ... but he will probably direct resource & money priorities
<cbx33> sure
<RichEd> cbx33: looks good on first pass ... will revise & comment
<cbx33> ok cool
<RichEd> cbx33 and I will set up a template for "conference funding requests" so the foramt is consistent when we ask for $
<cbx33> yes
<RichEd> that's all from me for now.
<highvoltage> ogra
<cbx33> we at time up aren't we?
<highvoltage> ogra said he had something to say
<RichEd> mhz: please send details re South America :)
<AliasVegas> remember everyone... email me you artwork comments! :)
<ogra> highvoltage, i already did
<highvoltage> oh ok :)
<ogra> highvoltage, we'll probably get in german TV
<highvoltage> aah
<mhz> sure, RichEd. In fact, I sent about 5 emails to Mark telling what is going on, and that we needed help...no response.
<ogra> with some additional advantage of a bunch of schools in byern switching to edubuntu :)
<ogra> *bayern
<mhz> RichEd: politically it is the time for being agressive in LAm, so is the time for market
<RichEd> mhz: i think i'm supposed to help him with this ... filter & digest & consolidate ... preserve bandwidth
<RichEd> and i wil respond :)
<mhz> RichEd: sure, I undersand
<RichEd> will <- will
<mhz> RichEd: and I will pke if not :D
<mhz> poke
* RichEd puts on chain mail protection
<mhz> hehehe
<HedgeMage> lol
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> RichEd: i just set up a filter for mhz 
<cbx33> mhz, use a tazer :p
<mhz> lol
<mhz> not yet, let's see him in action firts
* RichEd puts up a farce field
<HedgeMage> cbx33: that's just evil... I like it ;)
<mhz> cbx33: remember he may fight back ;)
<HedgeMage> RichEd: lol freudian slip?
<ogra> heh
<RichEd> nope .. that one was quite intentional ;)
<cbx33> hadn't thought of that
* highvoltage is having trouble staying awake
<mhz> cbx33: but I can throw him a WinXP CD and license
<mhz> ;)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: so go to sleep :P
<ogra> highvoltage, thast the danger if you sit in bed while meeting :)
<RichEd> is your "laptop" calling highvoltage ?
<ogra> hahaha
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm actually lying, probably more dangerous :)
<cbx33> ooooh 
<cbx33> lying.....
<RichEd> remember some virus protection please
* cbx33 doesn't want any more details
<ogra> i think we're also 12 mins over time ....
<ogra> so we should probably close here and move over to ur own room :)
* LaserJock wonders about Paris ;-)
<ogra> LaserJock, tell us :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: hey! i've seen you in bed with your wife's laptop too!
<ogra> haha
<LaserJock> shush
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ogra> ok, any other stuff ? 
* RichEd is done
<ogra> going once
<AliasVegas> remember everyone... email me you artwork comments! :)
<highvoltage> this has been a nice buzzy meeting
<ogra> going twice
<ogra> AliasVegas, i'll nag them ;)
<cbx33> test grasynco
<mhz> AliasVegas: yeah, but URL?
<ogra> yeah, test the milestone CDs !
<highvoltage> mhz: that's comments of previous releae
<ogra> report BUGS !!
<ogra> meeting ....
<highvoltage> may the force be with you.
<ogra> .... adjourned 
<LaserJock> \o/
<ogra> thanks everyone !
<cbx33> phew
<ogra> :)
<mhz> THX all!
* cbx33 is not looking forward to minuting that one
<RichEd> thanks all ... nice to meet you and great to be on board
<ogra> lol
<AliasVegas> :)
<ogra> cbx33, we had worse ones :)
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> actually i found that one very productive :)
<ogra> in all areas ...
<HedgeMage> :)
* mhz gets back to #edubuntu
* HedgeMage too
<AliasVegas> night guys!  :)
<teolemon> good night
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-20
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
<fabbione> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu
<anibal> @schedule melbourne
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Melbourne: 21 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Aug 06:00: Technical Board | 03 Aug 06:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:irc.freenode.net] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
<rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 20 Jul 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 17:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 17:00: Edubuntu
<pitti> hello
<dholbach> pitti: isn't the meeting in 2h?
<dholbach> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu
<dholbach> but hello pitti :)
<pitti> dholbach: oh dear, 15:00 *UTC*
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> that's why i go for lunch and a walk now
<dholbach> ;)
<Seveas> dholbach, try @now
<Seveas> @now berlin
* pitti has to get used to the new schedule
<pitti> cu then :)
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Berlin: July 20 2006, 14:57:16 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 2 hours 2 minutes
<dholbach> Seveas: nice
<jjesse> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
<irvin> @now manila
<Ubugtu> Current time in Asia/Manila: July 20 2006, 21:57:05 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 1 hour 2 minutes
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 21 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Aug 06:00: Technical Board | 03 Aug 06:00: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu
<GNAM> wow
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<fschoep> Hello everyone.
<dholbach> fschoep: i'm just working on the ubuntu-artwork split - once i'm done, i'll send a mail to ubuntu-art and we can get cracking :)
<dholbach> fschoep: sorry for not getting back to you earlier - if you have a bit of time, we can chat a bit after the meeting
<fschoep> dholbach: no problem, I'm sure we'll get everything worked out right soon enough
<dholbach> super
<pitti> hello again
<dholbach> :-)
<Kamion> afternoon all
<jjesse_> morning Kamion :)
<mhz> hi all
<rodarvus> hello all
<fabbione> hello
* Kamion rapidly reads up on the wiki page
<ogra> meep
<seb128> good afternoon
<kwwii> howdy
<fschoep> Hi Ken, how are you doing?
<kwwii> fschoep: good, things are slowly getting better
<kwwii> fschoep: we should talk after the meeting
<fschoep> kwwii: no problem
<fschoep> dholbach, kwwii: can I get something like half an hour after the meeting to eat dinner and then discuss things?
<dholbach> fschoep: sure
<kwwii> yepp
<Riddell> no mdz today?
<DSG-01> hello
<ogra> he melted i spain :)
<Leonox> hi
<ogra> *in
<Kamion> mdz said he probably wouldn't make it
<fschoep> Who's in charge now?
<Kamion> I'll chair - just finding the list of people to ping elsewhere
<fabbione> Kamion: in the wiki?
<dholbach> mvo has his last holiday today
<dholbach> dunno about benc
<Kamion> fabbione: yes, but need to compare with /names here
<ogra> dholbach, his last *ever* ?
<ogra> dholbach, so we'll never have a broken apt again ? 
<fabbione> Kamion: it has both actually
* pitti is terribly lagged, apologies in advance if I slack with answering to someone
<Mithrandir> ogra: yeah, no more slacking for mvo.
<dholbach> ogra: we'll see
<ogra> :)
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: says the guy who delayed a milestone release due to "too much wine"
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: it was delayed already. :-P
<Kamion> is heno expected to be away at the moment?
<fschoep> Yes, he is on holiday.
<Kamion> ah, thanks
<pitti> darn, I try connecting to another freenode server, brb
<Kamion> ok, we should get started
<Kamion> has everyone read the wiki page? not everyone has filled in their information on it
<fschoep> Kamion: I added myself even though I wasn't on there, is that OK?
<Kamion> fschoep: yes, that's fine - we should probably add you to the template in fact
<Kamion> BenC: could you quickly dump your info into the wiki page, for the record?
<BenC> yeah
<kwwii> my name is not on that list
<Kamion> kwwii: same as fschoep, if you want to dump your done/todo in there for the record, that would be good
<kwwii> will do
<Kamion> ok, in the meantime, we'll go from the bottom up
<Kamion> I suggest we try not doing the paste thing this week, in the hope that people have read the wiki page
<iwj> I think next week we should have an announcement in advance, giving a deadline for completing the report, and encouraging the addition of extra people, etc.  I'll write one up.
<fabbione> pitti is having network problems
<Kamion> iwj: in fact there was an announcement on warthogs@, but that's too private; should be with the meeting announcement on -devel-announce
<zul> Kamion: ditto
<iwj> Kamion: Oh, warthogs again.  It seems I never read warthogs on Wednesdays :-).
<Kamion> anyway, we should still go through everyone to make sure people have a chance to be quizzed and to say anything they have to say
<iwj> Right.
<Kamion> Mithrandir: you're first; anything of particular note this week?
<fabbione> sfllaw: any specific reason for keep moving these announcements in non public places?
<Kamion> or anything you want to grab people for next week?
<Mithrandir> I'd like to apologise for the week-long freeze.  I thought we were more ready than we were.
<Mithrandir> hopefully, it won't happen again.
<ogra> it was necessary
<Mithrandir> apart from that, I don't have anything in particular.
<Kamion> I think we'll be better off next time. Most of it was because the installer just wasn't there yet.
<ogra> we now have a stable base :)
<Kamion> ogra: not for much longer; feature development awaits ...
<Mithrandir> yeah, and that was a bad call on my part.  I should have waited a bit.  But, done is done.
<ogra> Kamion, sure, but you have something to compare to ... to find regressions/errors next milestone ...
<Kamion> Mithrandir: looks like you have a fair bit of coordination with Adam next week, but that's nothing new I guess
<Kamion> Mithrandir: also, congratulations on Knot-1
<Mithrandir> Kamion: same goes to you, for fixing ubiquity and d-i.
<Mithrandir> also, thanks.
<Kamion> I expect we'll need a bit more testing of derivatives next time round
<Kamion> the first milestone is generally quite rough and ready
<Kamion> Mithrandir: we should decide on Knot-2 timescales
<ogra> edubuntu is fine though
<Kamion> I suggest leaving a clear two weeks from now
<Kamion> just because otherwise the release team get nothing else done
<Kamion> does that sound reasonable?
<Mithrandir> I'll be gone on vacation + wedding + honeymoon from next friday, JFYI.
<Mithrandir> and won't be back until the sprint in London
<dholbach> wow
<Mithrandir> uh, not London
<Mithrandir> Wiesbaden
<rodarvus> :)
<Kamion> ah, noted; infinity/mdz/I will deal with releases, then
<Kamion> Mithrandir: please dump current sane-installer-keyboard status on me when you leave
<Mithrandir> Kamion: willdo
<Kamion> ok, thank you
<Kamion> sfllaw: anything from you this week?
* pitti waves, sorry
<Kamion> (if you're here ...)
<Mithrandir> he's not, I think.
<Kamion> doesn't look like it
<Kamion> seb128: anything from you?
<seb128> nop
<Hobbsee> looks to be not here.   [01:14]  [Whois]  sfllaw has been idle for 10 hours, 41 minutes and 20 seconds.
<Kamion> seb128: how is GNOME 2.15 looking upstream?
<seb128> pretty good, already GNOME 2.15.90 next week (2.16 beta 1)
<seb128> so they start freeze, etc
<fabbione> Kamion: sorry pitti can't get here on freenode properly. I can forward any request to/from him
<Kamion> feels very early, but of course our cycle is very late this time
<highvoltage> Mithrandir: congrats
<ogra> fabbione, he's here
<seb128> right, we only packaged one devel version this cycle
<pitti> fabbione, Kamion: I'm here now, though lagged
<Kamion> so at 2.15.90, GNOME will be in API/ABI freeze, is that right?
<dholbach> so from now it gets better and better ;)
<seb128> Kamion: API, ABI, UI frozen
<Kamion> handy for our feature development; I see a few shiny new features in GTK
<seb128> and components list too
<Kamion> all right
<Kamion> Keybuk: 
<seb128> yeah, GTK 2.10 is great, especially the new printing framework (but only epiphany uses it atm I think)
<Keybuk> Kamion: not much to report, Debian (for the most part) seem happy with the new PTS mails
<Kamion> it was little things like linkbutton that I noticed
<pitti> seb128: will the other apps be converted to use the new printing api, too?
<seb128> yeah, lot of new cool things too (linkbutton, recently used, etc)
<iwj> Keybuk: Do we have an official contact from Debian yet ?
<Keybuk> I'll be doing the UUID stuff and teardown now Knot Freeze is over
<Kamion> Keybuk: we need to get together early next week or tomorrow or thereabouts to make sure the partman changes for libata are right
<Keybuk> iwj: in which sense?
<Keybuk> Kamion: yup, agree
<seb128> pitti: not much this cycle, they have the same issue as we have ... cycles are short and manpower is limited
<pitti> seb128: how urgently do you need the new hal-cvs-head-on-crack-plus-policy-kit-on-top-of-it?
<Kamion> I forgot to note that in my to-do
<iwj> I remember mdz complaining that there wasn't anyone to have an official `Debian' opinion about this kind of thing.
<iwj> I mean, about cooperation with Ubuntu, PTS mails, etc.
<Keybuk> iwj: there are vague movements with the DCT and Utnubu
<Keybuk> buxy has been my contact for the PTS stuff
<Kamion> does anyone in Debian really want to place themselves in front of the firing squad on that, though? :-)
<seb128> pitti: no idea, apparently gnome-power-manager requires it to sleep and suspend and nothing else really requires it this cycle ...
<ogra> pitti, as soon as we can ... else we'll miss many g-p-m bugs 
<Keybuk> and I've found madduck to be useful to "find the right person" and me a general middle-man
<pitti> iwj: hard to get such an opinion, short of doing an official vote...
<seb128> pitti: we might want look are rolling back gnome-power-manager code if that's an issue
<iwj> Kamion: Well, I've got a thick skin and would volunteer except for err slight conflict of interest :-).
<Kamion> iwj: yes, I think most of us here are similarly problematic
<iwj> pitti: DPL should delegate.  But a `no' from Keybuk seems to be the answer.
<ogra> seb128, pitti, that whould be possible, but a lot of work, since exactly the code parts we need are vanished (or split up)
<Keybuk> aye, was just going to say, we could contact the DPL or DPL-of-Vice and ask for a delegate
<Keybuk> but then they'd probably ask for one from us in return
<seb128> ogra: we can stay to 2.14 for edgy ...
<Keybuk> and I'd be scared it'd be me
<Kamion> Keybuk: well volunteered
<ogra> seb128, yup, thats what i thought
<iwj> Keybuk: I'd volunteer too if you don't want to.
<Riddell> pitti, seb128: having a decision on HAL would be handy for me working on kubuntu-power-management
<pitti> ogra: TBH I'd rather let the dust settle down upstream and let them do a release first, but I will at least dive into it and look at the new stuff
<iwj> But I suspect you might do a better job.
<iwj> We could discuss it informally with Steve Mac if we make it to the Debian UK BBQ ?
<ogra> pitti, then lets keep 2.14, i'll look into regressions
<seb128> ogra, pitti: in any case we should open discussion with upstream on the topic and the concerns we have
<ogra> seb128, yeah, to avoid such stuff in the future at least
<Kamion> ok, lots of conversations going on at once here, perhaps the out-of-sequence ones could move to #ubuntu-devel
<seb128> ogra: will you contact upstream to let him know that PolicyKit is an issue?
<ogra> seb128, yup
<Kamion> rodarvus: anything from you?
* ogra keeps quiet now until its his turn
<rodarvus> not much, besides what can be read "between the lines" on my status report
<seb128> ogra: that's going to be an issue for GNOME anyway, 2.16 can't depends on policykit if that's CVS code
<iwj> lots of conversations> It's good to get people talking to each other but yes, perhaps elsewhere while the meeting goes on ?
<pitti> Riddell: right, but I absolutely do not want to say yes to it until I understand fully what they are doing
<Keybuk> rodarvus: I'd like ssh access to the OLPC hardware at some point to do a general health check
<Kamion> (really ugly) Hack to automagically check updates to packages in Debian and Ubuntu, to easy the task of comparing changes in the future (do we have some "official" tool to achieve this?)
<Kamion> rodarvus: isn't that very closely related to what MOM does?
<Keybuk> ie. a look around the hardware for anything that might be a problem for us, or any tricks we can do
<rodarvus> Keybuk: sure, I'll try to handle that this week or next
<Riddell> pitti: I don't care either way, just so I know what I have to develop against
<rodarvus> Kamion: I suppose so, yes
<Keybuk> rodarvus: echo subscribe debian PACKAGE | mom@ubuntu.com
<Kamion> if it doesn't quite do the right job, I'd suggest talking to Keybuk for what you need
<Keybuk> rodarvus: ^ once elmo turns it on
<rodarvus> I just made a quick hack to be able to check this "on my own", after the usual mom runs end
<Kamion> rodarvus: do you expect any changes required outside the X subsystem for X 7.1?
<Keybuk> though that might not be what you want, talk to me!
<rodarvus> I will, thanks for the heads up! :)
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: are you trying to check if Debian and we are in sync or whether we're in sync with upstream?
<rodarvus> Kamion: no, not really
<Kamion> rodarvus: there's also some noise about escalated support on certain X bugs; I'll chat with you about that afterwards if mdz hasn't done so already
<rodarvus> Mithrandir: both things, actually
<rodarvus> Kamion: he hasn't, not yet
<Kamion> the xresprobe blank-on-install bug and an i810 bug
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: for the upstream bit, there's watch files.
<rodarvus> Mithrandir: indeed
<rodarvus> (but it was just four lines on the script to check upstream too :) )
<doko> rodarvus: we had a spec to follow upstream versions, have to ask lifeless when it gets deployed. tracking debian versions will be done when debian is imported into launchpad (according to cprov)
<rodarvus> though it would be nice to have watch files for all X packages (which currently don't have one)
<Keybuk> doko: we have our own implementation of debian tracking in MoM
<Kamion> doko: that's not likely in the edgy cycle
<doko> watch file checking however was delayed
<Keybuk> probably easier to tweak that than rely on mythical launchpad features
<Kamion> (Debian imported into Launchpad)
<Kamion> ok, time's marching on
<Kamion> LaserJock would like to deliver a docteam update and has to go soon
<LaserJock> From the Documentation Team:
<LaserJock> Edgy to this point - Mostly wiki work. CategoryDocumentation wiki pages were moved from wiki.u.c to help.u.c/community (BetterWikiDocs spec) so that all help related documentation is at one URL. Lots of structural and cleanup work is left to do.
<LaserJock> This Week - Tomorrow we are having an organizational meeting to chart Edgy docs. Looks like NEW docs might be "Switching from Windows" and "Security Guide".  
<LaserJock> Continue shaping up Packaging  Guide and Server Guide. Merging information from the Official Ubuntu Book into the Desktop Guides.
<LaserJock> Done
<Riddell> LaserJock: what should we start packaging snapshots of the docs?
<ogra> i'd like to note that i find the wiki forwarding pretty painful
<Riddell> s/what/when/
<Kamion> LaserJock: IIRC doko's been working on some kind of "differences from Debian packaging to Ubuntu packaging" document; have you been coordinating on that?
<Kamion> ogra: yes, it's been jarring on me as well
<Kamion> DebuggingProcedures being on help.u.c/community/ was particularly weird
<doko> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingChangesSpec
<LaserJock> Riddell: I haven't really seen much new stuff yet, I'd give use a few weeks, but you might want to ask mdke
<LaserJock> doko: ok cool, I'll have to talk to you about that and see what we can put in the Packaging Guide
<LaserJock> Kamion: yes, it was an automatic move (anything with CategoryDocumentation) so some stuff needs to be moved back
<LaserJock> ogra: just need to update your links ;-)
<Kamion> LaserJock: does it continue to be automatic? that is will new CategoryDocumentation pages be moved?
<LaserJock> Kamion: I don't think so, we are creating new wiki pages on help.u.c/community
<ogra> LaserJock, well, sure ... but that wont make the forwarding faster for people who bookmarked the pages ... 
<mhz> ogra: indesd +1 ;)
<mhz> eed
<Kamion> LaserJock: I'd suggest an announcement on -devel-announce about it if there wasn't already; I only noticed when it happened
<LaserJock> we will be checking wiki.u.c. periodicly for moving
<Kamion> although it's possible I missed the announcement
<LaserJock> Kamion: it was announced but the actual move was delayed (I think because of preperationf for Paris, etc.)
<Kamion> ah
<Kamion> perhaps a reminder would be appropriate then
<LaserJock> anyway, if you are having problem with the wiki move or want specifc pages moved please let the doc team know
<LaserJock> we will try our best to make things as smooth as possible
<Kamion> ok, thanks LaserJock
<Kamion> ogra: your turn
<Kamion> ogra: what's up with student-control-panel-completion?
<ogra> well, nothing beyond what i wrote on the wiki
<ogra> i notified mdz that i'D need time to fix it up ... 
<Kamion> hmm, I see
<ogra> it went a bit back and forth ... and then knot 1 came ... i hope to find time this weekend to finish the last bit 
<pitti> hi BenC 
<Kamion> it seems to be in review state at the moment; you know to chase up reviewers for that I assume? I doubt most of them are watching for new review specs now
<ogra> sadly the feature is to important to just strke it
<BenC> pitti: hey
<ogra> Kamion, yes i know ...
* ogra wonders why its in review ... should be drafting 
<Kamion> up to you to maintain that
<ogra> yup 
<Kamion> ok, I'd really like to see that approved by next week
<ogra> i'll care for it
<Kamion> ogra: "common buildsystem" => common between Edubuntu and LTSP upstream?
<ogra> common in the meaning of: we dont use debian/*.install files but automake and the like 
<ogra> so other distros can adopt it 
<iwj> ogra: Just for the avoidance of any doubt, you don't think yet that you've addressed my comments about "Execution of programs in the users session(s)" ?
<ogra> iwj, nope, thats why i was surprised that its in review, i cat remember changing the status
<iwj> I notice that my brief comment isn't in the wiki page.  Perhaps I should paste that email exchange between you and me and mdz into the wiki ?
<ogra> *cant
<ogra> iwj, mdz made his comments to the spec via mail and i'll adress them ...
<iwj> OK.  It's just that it's easy to lose things when the reviewer/approver doesn't have the mail in front of them.
<ogra> iwj, i was planning to ask mdz to review/approve it ... 
<Kamion> yes, I'd recommend putting that in the wiki just so it doesn't get lost
<iwj> OK.
<ogra> he should know what its all about :)
<Kamion> even if one has been previously involved, it's possible to forget, and it's useful for informing others
<Kamion> right, time I think
<ogra> well, that would make the spec pretty big ...
<ogra> i'll point it our if i ask him for review
<ogra> *out
<iwj> ogra: put it in a sub-page with a link to it ?
<Kamion> ogra: no harm in that, if the issues have been unaddressed
<Kamion> once the issues are addressed, it should be factored into the document
<ogra> ok ok, i'll add it ...
<Kamion> mvo is on holiday; I seem to have been uploading apt for him ;-)
<Kamion> doko: anything from you?
<doko> Kamion, nothing else as in the report
<Kamion> your report reminds me, promotions/demotions
<doko> gnat-4.1 in NEW and promotion of python2.5 to main would be nice
<Mithrandir> doko: OOo to dapper-proposed-updates or dapper-updates, btw?
<doko> Kamion: yes, removals of binary packages would be nice as well.
<Kamion> anastacia output is enough of a nightmare right now that we are not really processing promotions/demotions automatically, so if something's at all urgent, bug somebody in ubuntu-archive
<Kamion> doko: likewise, been gradually working my way through, but if there's anything that's urgent, notify us
<doko> Mithrandir: dapper-proposed-updates first, dapper-updates is too risky. Need to prepare three or four packages
<Kamion> some removals have been done
<Riddell> hi mdz 
<doko> Kamion: it would be nice to get a status of state of python-packaging, not that urgent
<Kamion> doko: promoting python2.5 to main implies some degree of commitment to it for edgy; I assume that the outcome of "Decide if it is a viable option to support python2.5" from the python2.5 spec is therefore "yes"?
<doko> Kamion: yes, but we can drop it again, followed by "binary-NMU's". 
<Kamion> with regard to dapper updates, I think we're still reasonably on-target for an early-August dapper point release, although I need to poke the Soyuz team about status of some of the things we were planning to rely on there
<fabbione> Kamion: early August?
<Kamion> doko: right, hence "some degree of" rather than "absolute"
* fabbione sighs
<Kamion> fabbione: ?
<fabbione> Kamion: if that's the target we need to find somebody to complete the sparc changes for dapper point release.
<Kamion> fabbione: if that has to be for the next point release, that's life
<fabbione> Kamion: meh ok
<Kamion> given long-term support, I expect there'll be plenty of room for more than ne
<ogra> Kamion, fabbione will likely be in hospital getting his baby ...
<Kamion> one
<Kamion> ogra: understood, but we can't leave it much later because then we'll be into edgy release
* BenC volunteers
<ogra> yup
<iwj> We're getting seriously behind here ...
<Kamion> and it is necessary to get something done before shipit for dapper stops
<Kamion> iwj's right
<Kamion> pitti: anything from you?
<fabbione> Kamion: let's take this after the meeting
<pitti> apart from what's written in the wiki, I just want to mention that I'm looking for a nice name for the crash report daemon; Mithrandir proposed 'apport', and I really like it; ping me if you have a terrific idea :)
<Kamion> fabbione: yep
<iwj> pitti: Debian did a 1.0.x ff upload but there doesn't seem to be a coordinated 1.0.8 orig.tar.gz anywhere.
<pitti> my only blocker so far is the kernel crashdump helper, I'm going to discuss this with BenC, but not in the meeting
<Kamion> pitti: any idea of edgy langpacks?
<pitti> iwj: oh, wow
<iwj> They've just done a 1.0.4.orig.tar.gz-based security update.
<iwj> I was following the list but it was hard to piece the bits together and there was no message of the form "here is the thing which is finally done" except for this URL:
<iwj> http://people.debian.org/~eric/mozilla-firefox/
<iwj> (Note bad practice of a signed .dsc not uploaded ...)
<iwj> I haven't done anything else about this.
<pitti> Kamion: I asked carlos several times, he said they are close now
<iwj> But I thought I should pass the `info' on.
<pitti> iwj: I thought they actually used 1.0.7 the last time and just called it 1.0.4 to not break reverse dependencies?
<pitti> iwj: thank you
<iwj> Something like that, yes.
<Kamion> ok, thank you pitti
<Kamion> Riddell: anything from you?
<Riddell> avahi-daemon now in kubuntu-desktop
<Riddell> bunch of stuff will shortly need moved to main for gpgsm
<Kamion> what's gpgsm for?
<Riddell> Kamion: s/mime support in kmail
<Riddell> also need UVF exception for kopete
<Hobbsee> (yay, more bugfixes for kopete)
<Kamion> is the kubuntu zeroconf stuff following the enormous thread on ubuntu-devel?
<Riddell> Kamion: no, it's been planned for a while and specced at the summit, I've not seen the thread on ubuntu-devel
<Kamion> we should avoid divergent security policies between Ubuntu and Kubuntu if we can
<Riddell> I'll take a look at it
<Riddell> Kamion: it's disabled by default, else pitti would kill me
<dholbach> hihihi
<ogra> Riddell, prepare to spend the afternoon with it if you didnt see the thread yet :P
<Kamion> Riddell: some concerns raised in the thread about the ineffectiveness of offering users a choice between keep-my-machine-secure and do-what-I-want-to-do
<Kamion> anyway, that's for the mailing list
<Kamion> thankks Riddell
<Kamion> iwj: ?
<iwj> Nothing else from me.
<iwj> But note that I changed the wiki entry quite recently: Chuck will be reporting about Xen.
<iwj> (Chuck = zul)
<Riddell> is he bountied for it?
<fabbione> Riddell: no he is masochist last i checked :P
<BenC> there's a bounty on him, not for him :)
<Kamion> iwj: with regard to dpkg Breaks deployment, are you aware that Debian's base freeze for etch is RSN?
<dholbach> you're so mean :)
<Riddell> ok, so we should still be polite
<Kamion> so it'll need to squeeze in before thhat
<zul> fabbione: yep thats me
<Kamion> zul: we'll grab you at the end, if you're around for that long
<iwj> Kamion: Err, no, I wasn't.
<zul> im not going anywyere
<iwj> What's the date for that ?
<iwj> It would be really nice if we could get it into Debian's dpkg this time round.
<Kamion> iwj: IIRC 8 August but see debian-devel-announce
<iwj> I'll go check.  Thanks for the heads-up.
<iwj> I'll have to spend a bit of weekend thinking about deployment plan for Debian too.
<Kamion> sympathy (in every sense) on the heat
<Kamion> heno is on holiday
<Kamion> fschoep: anything from you?
<fschoep> Besides the Wiki, I've got two things:
<fschoep> I'd want some input on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/WideThemeSwitcher
<fschoep> For your information, here's a summary of what we've been doing lately: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/Summary_18JULY2006
<fschoep> The spec is on Launchpad but I don't own it and Etienne is off for holiday so that takes some more time to get in line I'm afraid.
<fschoep> That's all for now.
<dholbach> shiny shiny
<Kamion> fschoep: if you need stuff tweaked on Launchpad I believe that anyone in ubuntu-drivers can probably force it
<fschoep> OK, that's probably the best thing to do now. Once I've got that in line, who should I contact about the contents? It's GNOME related.
<Kamion> fschoep: dapper-backport> see my comment above about dapper point release timing, if you weren't aware
<fschoep> Kamion: you sent me a Wiki link to the schedule last time.
<Kamion> right, I forget sometimes :)
<Kamion> #ubuntu-desktop is probably a reasonable fallback ...
<fschoep> Kamion: is there a list of artwork things you want to get in there or should we make one?
<ogra> fschoep, hmm, you are not on -devel ... whats the difference between Lsplash and the gnome splash screen in that spec ? 
<Kamion> fschoep: I expect to be largely release-monkey plus installer fixes; I doubt I will have time to look into artwork in detail, so if you could prepare something fairly conservative then I'm happy to look over it
<fschoep> There is none, it's just that I've been calling it login-splash and suddenly everyone calls it lsplash.
* dholbach wanted to call the package session-splash :-p
<ogra> ah, ok ... was a bit confusing :)
<fschoep> Kamion: will create a list.
<dholbach> more confusion :)
<Kamion> ok, thanks fschoep, we need to move on; please somebody desktopish coordinate with fschoep for uploads and stuff
<fschoep> Sorry, I only recently became accustomed with the "Lsplash" term.
<Kamion> fabbione: anything from you?
<ogra> lets just keep gnome splash :P  users know the term
<fabbione> Kamion: what's on the wiki, we just got rid of all non-upstream cluster suite patches.
<fabbione> Kamion: otherwise it's ok...
<seb128> ogra: no no, or people will assume than dholbach and I are responsive for bugs about it :p
<Kamion> given your imminent awayness, that is definitely good news ;)
<ogra> seb128, i didnt say "GTK boog screen" :P
<fabbione> Kamion: i am worried about GFS at the moment. there is a regression and seems to be "our" issue
<Kamion> fabbione: is there likely to be any cluster work that needs to be done after you disappear?
<Kamion> perhaps you could braindump on somebody
<fabbione> Kamion: yes, the spec and fix what's there
<fabbione> Kamion: anyone in particular you would like me to use as ratlab?
<Kamion> ... I'm not sure anyone else has the experience/knowledge to take it from zero
<fabbione> (needs to have at least 3 machines)
<fabbione> (same arch is better to start with)
<fabbione> any volunteer?
<fabbione> or is this going to be like me asking for X help in London?
* fabbione watches everybody running away screaming
<BenC> I can help, but I don't have the "same arch"
* ogra doesnt
<Kamion> volunteers -> #ubuntu-devel
<Kamion> thanks fabbione
<Kamion> dholbach: ?
<dholbach> two things: it'd have been nice if there had been more people at the HUG DAY yesterday - i know it was short notice, but it was a 2-3 man show. I think this needs more attention, as everybody complains about too many bugs, but not everybody's willing to help people get involved in bug triage. the other thing is: the motu team is looking for people willing to give a short session on packaging related topics (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sc
<dholbach> hool/Requests) - it'd be nice if you could think about it.
<fabbione> thanks Kamion 
<dholbach> (apart from what I have on the wiki.)
<ogra> dholbach, re: hug day ... many people were very busy with CD tests ... 
<Kamion> I have to admit I didn't see the announcement until after the event - must get caught up on mail
<dholbach> ogra: i know
<dholbach> there's always a lot to do :)
<ogra> dholbach, i just mean the date was a bit unfortunate 
<dholbach> and note: i'm not complaining in capital letters :)
<dholbach> that's all :)
<seb128> ogra: I'm sure not everybody was busy with CD testing for the whole day
<Kamion> MOTU tutor volunteers -> #ubuntu-motu
<ogra> seb128, surely not (i was though, and in the spare time i was in -bugs, but still)
<Kamion> thanks dholbach
<Kamion> my turn
<Kamion> further to the wiki, I've started making seed/cdimage changes in preparation for revive-tasksel
<Kamion> so if you see weird seed commits from me, that's why
<Kamion> derivative seed merging should get easier rather than harder (especially now that server -> server-ship), but feel free to ask me about stuff
<ogra> well, as long as Mithrandir doesnt plan a knot2 this week .... :)
<Kamion> I think two weeks' time will be pretty sane
<Mithrandir> ogra: no worries.
<ogra> :)
<Kamion> that will pretty much coincide with when we need to be doing dapper point release testing, mind you
<Kamion> I will try to get ubiquity into dapper-updates in the next week or so, so that we can start doing image testing early
<dholbach> nice
<Kamion> nothing else from me
<Kamion> zul: ?
<zul> this week - kernel security updates, xen kernel image, xen userspace fixes,
<Kamion> zul: how long do you expect the xen-edgy work to take?
<Kamion> noting that it's a blocker for some other things, so for planning
<zul> next  - apply kernel-package xen infrastructure,xen-kernel testing, xen testing  release kernel-security updates
<zul> Kamion: i expect another of couple of days, the xen kernel image is done but it doesnt boot, userspace is done and works,
<Kamion> good answer. :-)
<zul> right now the xen kernel doesnt use kernel-package so that might be a bit of breakage there, right now its failing at the initramfs level
<Kamion> ok, well sounds better than I expected, so hopefully automated-testing-deployment won't be stalled too much longer
<Kamion> thanks zul
<zul> and i was going to upload to universe if it worked
<Kamion> zul: yep, that's reasonable to start with
<Kamion> BenC: anything from you?
<BenC> not really
<BenC> just chugging along
<Kamion> BenC: since you're on vacation next week, you+me+Keybuk to sort out the UUID stuff tomorrow would probably be best
<BenC> sounds like a plan
<Keybuk> yup, I'm good with that
<Kamion> with any luck timezones will be favourable so we can present you with a list of bugs when you wake up ;-)
<Keybuk> it's not so much timezones as heat at the moment that's the problem
<Hobbsee> icecubes...
<Kamion> Keybuk: early mornings are good for avoiding that
<Kamion> (never thought I'd hear myself say that)
<ogra> late nights are !
<BenC> hehe
<Kamion> infinity's not here, I forget whether he's on holiday or not
<Keybuk> Kamion: *nods* I've found that an early morning and late evening is the best time
<Riddell> Scotland's all cold today
<Kamion> kwwii: anything you want to add?
<Keybuk> Kamion: I think he's still in bed with soyuzitis
<kwwii> pretty much what I put in the wiki...kinda wanted to know the process for putting stuff on the DIYMarketing page
<Kamion> I must say it's the first I've heard of that page
<kwwii> :p
<Kamion> kwwii: contact previous editors, and/or silbs?
<Kamion> probably silbs for preference
<kwwii> yeah, I'll send an email and figure it out
<ogra> Kamion, its made by silbs and jdub iirc
<ogra> in hoary/breezy time somewhere
<Kamion> right, and I think that's it
<Keybuk> is anybody else planning to attend LugRadio Live this weekend?
<Riddell> Keybuk: me
<Riddell> and heno I think
<Kamion> not me this year, I'm afraid
<Riddell> and sabdfl too
<Kamion> did the no-paste-just-the-wiki thing work this time? I'm not sure, it seemed a bit forced
<Riddell> I didn't like it
<fabbione> i don't like how the meeting was
<Kamion> I thought it was worth a try
<fschoep> Riddell: heno is indeed going
<Mithrandir> I didn't like it either.
<iwj> I think it slowed things down, in some weird counterintuitive way.
<fabbione> worth a try yes
<Keybuk> it worked better with the pastes
<Mithrandir> sure, worth a try, but it didn't work out well.
<Riddell> so scrap wiki page and bring back pastes?
<Keybuk> but if we're going to do the paste, I don't see the point in trying to get the wiki ready days in advance ... I think it should be enough that at the meeting start, it's up to date
<Keybuk> the wiki page is nice as a replacement for JaneW's SpreadSheetOfDoom
<Riddell> true
<Kamion> Keybuk: yes, I agree, it's good to have for the record but ...
* pitti thinks we shuold just paste here and forget about the wiki
<iwj> It does mean you can read ahead on the wiki page.
<Kamion> pitti: the wiki is useful as a permanent record, rather than IRC logs
<Hobbsee> pitti: better for people reading the logs of the meeting later, too...
<pitti> doing things twice and trying to keep the wiki up to date didn't work so well for me TBH
<fschoep> Kamion: indeed
<Riddell> I fear lots of conflicts if we all add our bits in the 2 minutes before the meeting
<iwj> conflicts> That's very true.
<fabbione> i think we can just paste here
<fschoep> Aren't there edit locks on the Wiki?
<ogra> Riddell, well iwj and me usually have them there :)
<Kamion> there is no need to keep it up to date really; you can always add stuff next week
<fabbione> and update the wiki within 1 hour of the meeting
<seb128> I liked the previous meeting way better too
<ogra> ++
<fabbione> so we keep both irc meeting as before
<fabbione> and records on the wiki
<pitti> Kamion: but we already have activity mails (or, rather, we should have)
<iwj> I find the wiki very useful but we should relax and say to edit it an hour or two in advance.
<Kamion> *cough*
<fabbione> but it needs to be mandatory to fill up the wiki within the hour
<fschoep> One problem this time was we strayed a bit off the main path a bit too long I think.
<Kamion> pitti: actually they're not really the same
<Kamion> pitti: my activity reports are (when I send them) a lot more verbose, and stuff is often duplicated across days
<Keybuk> really?  I just write my paste by reading my activity reports for the past week
<iwj> Keybuk: Yes, but it's quite condensed.
<Mithrandir> I liked the "fill out the wiki 24 hours a day in advance", I must admit.
<Kamion> what iwj said
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: I really don't ... it makes the wiki text almost meaningless
<ogra> Mithrandir, that akes then one day outdated
<Keybuk> "here's where I was up to over 24 hours ago"
<pitti> Keybuk: you too? :)
<fabbione> Keybuk: ++
<Keybuk> generally my TODO is only 24-hours in advance anyway
<Kamion> iwj: I think the reason it slowed things down was that there wasn't so clear a boundary between people's turns
<iwj> Kamion: Yes.
<Keybuk> so by the time we get to the meeting, I've actually done everything in my todo list anyway
<Kamion> and we basically need to go through everyone anyway
<iwj> Perhaps paste a  =========== FSmith =========== ?
<kwwii> ok...time for me to cook dinner for the family...guess we are done here?
<Kamion> would work but doesn't seem a huge win over paste-report
<iwj> I'm tempted to write a turn-taking robot which hassles people when we go slow, too :-).
<iwj> Kamion: Right.
<Kamion> right, I think we're done, unless there are any other announcements
<iwj> But it would shut up the people who think the wiki is a duplication :-).
<Riddell> any volunteers to fix ruby on powerpc?
<Riddell> fabbione: you were previous uploader
<fschoep> kwwii, dholbach: meet in ubuntu-devel in thirty minutes / one hour?
<zul> heh..
<pitti> hm, somehow the pasting feels more like an RL meeting
<fabbione> Riddell: i was forced to do the merge. kthxbye
<iwj> pitti: I think that might be part of it, yes.
<pitti> thanks everyone
<dholbach> fschoep: fine - i'll do a break now myself
* ogra runs hearing the word ruby
<fabbione> Riddell: there is also davis.ubuntu.com that you can use
<Kamion> Riddell: I'll have a look and see what I can manage
<Kamion> thanks all, adjourned
<kwwii> fschoep: I might have to delay that...I'll send you an email later tonight
<fabbione> cya everybody
<Riddell> fabbione: I have a powerpc, it compiles fine for me locally just not in the buildds
<fschoep> kwwii: OK, see you soon.
<kwwii> fschoep: see you :-)
<fabbione> Riddell: than you need to grab infinity and check with him.
<fschoep> Enjoy dinner everyone/
<fabbione> Riddell: are you using the exact same chroot to test?
<fabbione> Riddell: same kernel?
<Riddell> fabbione: most likely not
<fabbione> Riddell: afaik the buildd at the DC are all 64bit kernel
<iwj> Thanks everyone.
<fabbione> Riddell: so that *might* make a diff
<fabbione> Riddell: pushing it back to me will just make things worst, since i would have to do the same investigation with a possible 2 weeks delay
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<cbx33> ogra, your rsyncer script didn't work?
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-21
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 21 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 23:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 23:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<imbrandon> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 21 2006, 18:39:29 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Marketing Team in 20 minutes
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Marketing Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Klaidas> jenda, ping ;)
<jenda> Klaidas: pong
<jenda> ooh, already?
<jenda> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 21 2006, 18:53:30 - Current meeting: Ubuntu Marketing Team
<Klaidas> yup :)
<jenda> wasn't it scheduled for 19:00? :)
<Klaidas> but how come it's today, I thought it's every two weeks?
<Klaidas> umm
<Klaidas> Ubugtu says, it's now :)
<jenda> Klaidas: we made it earlier. I asked at the meeting last time if anyone minded. I wanted to get SU a little furthered, because I'm leaving for three weeks.
<jenda> (No one opposed the idea)
<Klaidas> oh, ok :)
<jenda> Ubugtu seems to announce meetings a few minutes early. Let's start in those four minutes... :) I want at least someone to turn up...
<Klaidas> ok, i'll go get some tea ;)
<jenda> Hello, sara_ and _sara
<jenda> OKay...
<jenda> Are there any of the people who submitted SpreadUbuntu designs around?
<jenda> hello nixternal 
<jenda> the meeting seems rather... poorly attended :)
<nixternal> well hello there
<nixternal> it looks like it
<jenda> I'd like at least some of the designers to have come... but it's not happening. Is there anyone who'd like to comment on the SU designs?
<nixternal> can i vote on some of the designs for spread ubuntu?
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> there are 2 i really like i think..link me again
<_sara> I also like ehat I see
<jenda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu/GraphicalDesignSpec
<jenda> I was about to link the one I found original... but the link is broke, gimme a sec.
* mhz apologize for being late
<_sara> the one by nestor
<nixternal> i love the cleanliness of ubuntu-geek's design
<jenda> _sara: exactly
<jenda> The docteam server fails, for some reason, give me three seconds...
<nixternal> i like the "see it, try it, get it, ship it, spread it" icons from kassetra
<jenda> nixternal: check :)
<jenda> That's exactly what I'd like to do - piece it together...
<nixternal> but truthfully, Just Hayes design with the correct colors is the winner for me ;)
<nixternal> as it blends with the ubuntu website
<nixternal> which i just found out is using Plone..because im trying to get the same look for http://chi.ubuntu-us.org
<_sara> uhh
<jenda> Would you guys think asking Kassetra to get the design in order for the marketing team is a good idea?
<jenda> As in - making an amalgam of the existing designs according to the outcome of this meeting?
<_sara> sounds good to me
<jenda> nixternal?
<ormiret> Do we have to hand off to one person?
<nixternal> i like the design...but why pick one person, is there a reason?
<jenda> No, we do not - but if we do not, I'm quite sure it will not be done. I won't be here to push the designers.
<nixternal> ok..if we want to stick with the Ubuntu layout, then we need everyone to help..however, if we pick another design, then ok
<nixternal> i like the layout and flow of Ubuntu-Geeks design..however, there are others with the globe that are HOT!!!
<Klaidas> Ubuntu-Geek's design seems nice - warm calours, easy, light design , I like it
<jenda> I, for one, don't think we should stick to it too stubbornly. But the top bar might be a nice idea.
<ormiret> I think people can cooperate without being pushed. We can come up with a timeline now.
<jenda> I'm coming back on the 12th, and would like to have a skeleton of the site up for content to be added.
<_sara> I think that setting a dateline should be fine
<nixternal> you know...Alecks has the hottest design, no doubt about it...and it would function as one of those "target hit pages" that the firefox team does to get hits and to populate their ideas
<jenda> OK... but I don't think just ending the meeting now with 'people will cooperate on the design' will result in having a completed design.
<ormiret> what needs done to achieve that?
<mhz> could we set a kind of 'contest' ?
<nixternal> like if we had a "Spread Ubuntu" button for web sites to display...and they clicked the link...and came to Alecks's layout...that would be pretty awesome
<ormiret> a skeleton of a site is a fairly vague definition.
<mhz> this way there will be 'objectives', 'timeline', etc.
<mhz> and 'voting'
<jenda> OTOH, if we ask one of the proposed designs authors, they will (happily, I think) take it on their shoulders to create a design and ask others for help / accept help when offered.
<nixternal> however...one thing needs to be known...the pages sizes should be optimized for 800x600...just in case, because we are not only marketing to people with 21 lcd's, but people with 15" crts
<jenda> mhz: that has already happened, in a way. We have about 7 proposals now (more, but from 7 people)
<_sara> So how are we going to pick one
<nixternal> how about we tell all the designers, we like this layout, with this look, and these buttons, and would like you all to create a collaboration of the designs we enjoy
<nixternal> and then they can submit new creations
<jenda> And I was going to vote/choose a person at this meeting who would take care of getting the job done...
<jenda> hmm
<jenda> interesting
<ormiret> I don't think we can pick a person and land them with the job when they aren't here.
<jenda> nixternal: that seems to be a little overkill: I think they were instructed to do that _till_ now.
<_sara> that is like seven people, and that is alot of people to collaborate
<jenda> ormiret: I'd ask the person personally if need be
<nixternal> it could be overkill all it wants to be, it will get us the designs we like, then so be it
<nixternal> if it will get*
<nixternal> there is nothing wrong with saying, hey we really like your design, but there are other ideas we would like to see implemented...can you all do a redesign using the stuff we like
<jenda> And will it? I think it has already been happening, and now is the time to continue on one single piece of work...
<nixternal> beat the dead horse, i dont' care, as long as a design is created that WE ALL like
<jenda> hehe :)
<nixternal> right now, we are all going, well i like this design, and i like those buttons, and i like these colors, and that is cool
<nixternal> we need to bring it all together now
<Klaidas> I might be missing something, but will there be a voting to decide which design we will use?
<_sara> Yeah, maybe we don't need to pick one but narrow them dowan and then ask for a last refinement
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> Klaidas: i am sure we will vote on a design
<nixternal> and maybe the current designs should be placed in a poll..and then everyone can vote on it, and add comments
<jenda> Yes, and I'd like a single person to put it all together. We should choose that person according to those designs (and choose a second and third if they decline...)
<nixternal> we can take the most popular comments, ideas, and design, and work on implementing them
* mhz suggests -as in other ocassions has worked- to call the voting in the wiki, so those who can't be on IRC, can still vote
<jenda> Klaidas: we will discuss, and see if we get consent or almost-consent :)
<nixternal> or, you can create a poll in the forusm correct?
<mhz> or we can create a poll in Moin too
<jenda> Hmm...
<Klaidas> Or create one poll, and lik to it from everywhere
<Klaidas> *link
<ormiret> I don't think this meeting is well enough attended to make any descisions, so wiki/forum polls sound better to me.
<jenda> I don't think we should, because that way the results are very, very unreliable. How do we decide who can vote and who can't - and if everyone can, it's simply very vague - anyone can convince X people to vote this way or that.
<mhz> true
<ormiret> do the vote on the ML then.
<Klaidas> True, but the website is for public, not for us only
* jenda has an evil idea that only design submitters or SU contributors should be able to vote... }:->
<ormiret> we do still need to decide who has a vote...
<_sara> Maybe you should extend that to marketing team contributors
<jenda> Makes sense, to an extent...
<jenda> Do you mean all LP MT members?
<nixternal> that is very true..what we can do is set a meeting date, no less then 2 weeks in advanced..and let it be known we will be voting on stuff...and if 5 people show up, then 5 people vote and thats that
<Klaidas> you mean a meeting for voting?
<jenda> I think this is too complicated. We do not have a council, so we can't make fair votes, I think.
<nixternal> now, if an even amount show up and there is a split, we need to find an arbitrator ;)
<jenda> Polls are OK to see the public opinion
<ormiret> I don't like doing it live cause it gives too much power to those who happen to be in the most convenient timezones
<jenda> nixternal: I disagree. This meeting was announced 8 days beforehand
<_sara> yea all LP members, I don't know about the meeting some timezones ar enot conviniets
<jenda> Well, it's not like we are deciding anything that important.
<mhz> why would people vote if they are not interested? Why would someone convince X people to vote for his design? We have Code of Conduct
<nixternal> that is true...then we should send out an email stating, if you cannot be at the meeting, here is the agenda, email us your views and what not
<jenda> mhz: that is very true, but the poll doesn't guarantee best results.
<mhz> right
<mhz> but voting does
<jenda> nixternal: I really want to have this decided at the end of this meeting, or tomorrow at worst, because I'm leaving then.
<nixternal> ok, no polls because they aren't accurate, no voting because we don't have a cc...draw from a hat?
<ormiret> jenda: other people can count votes
<nixternal> and who draws, because if we don't like the outcome, others will get upset
<ormiret> we can decide on a mechanism to vote now
<Klaidas> No matter what we would do, it won't bee good for 100% of people
<jenda> mhz: no, it does not, unless a qualified group does the voting (eg: all citizens -criminals and judges; community members or community council)
<nixternal> how do we decide what gets implemented, ever way for a member or the community to get involved at this point is impossible due the poll issue and us not having a cc structure
<_sara> can you limit who can vote on launchpad polls
<nixternal> how about we work on that, and then decide on designs..because right now it is pretty confusing
<jenda> _sara: yes, but we can't decide on that.
<ormiret> we can manually count votes if necessary, what we really need to decide is who gets to vote.
<ormiret> and when
<nixternal> i agree ormiret, but that is creating a CC within the team, and my understanding is that isn't wanted
<mhz> Moin voring states who voted, what voted, when voted, publicly available. And, all subscribers to the page can still get notified by email
<jenda> I really think this is no big issue to continue to discuss so complicatedly how to choose the designer. When we chose project leaders, it was the obvious choice of people who were about to create the projects in question
<nixternal> well the designer isn't obvious to me
<jenda> In this case, that points towards the submitters of the designs
<nixternal> i like 3 or 4 designers
* Klaidas likes, umm, maybe 2
<jenda> That narrows down the options.
<Klaidas> but one it the fovourite ;)
<nixternal> im 3 on the dot actually
* mhz likes 3 but not sure if he counts ;)
<nixternal> if i had to go for a favorite i wouldl be biased...as the 3 designs have various implications for marketing
<jenda> We aren't talking particular designs, now, we are talking designers
<nixternal> how do we pick a designer?
<mhz> oh
<ormiret> throw the names in - if they are the saem 2 or 3, we could just ask them to coperate.
<jenda> THe ideal designer needs to have the dedication, and the talent. He does'nt have to be a perfect artist, because he can ask others for help with art.
<jenda> ormiret: +1
<nixternal> im not worried about art, as we have a team just for that
<mhz> any of those designers have made substainable contribution? has been around for at least a couple of months and is very aware of needs?
<pygi> nixternal: indeed
<nixternal> right now is web design/layout
<nixternal> pygi: this is hard being in 2 meetings at once
<nixternal> ;)
<pygi> nixternal: I do same :P
<jenda> OK... can I propose one of these designers?
<nixternal> i know..you are in the other meeting i am in with docs ;)
<jenda> :)
<pygi> I do believe I have a designer who might help us
<nixternal> im biased in my pick
<pygi> I might even show some of his works :)
<nixternal> let us see ;)
<pygi> but you know better then me anyway :P
* nixternal knows nothing about anything ;)
<pygi> pykix.net, pygi.pykix.net, kix.pykix.net, blog.pykix.net, and some more (kinda I cant show that yet :P) great stuff
<jenda> Kassetra is an ubuntu member. She has worked for the ubuntuforums for a long time, and has recently been released for what seemed a personal dispute to me.
<pygi> logos for DesktopBSD package manager, numerous apps, etc.
<pygi> nixternal: exactly :)
<jenda> Which means she will have plenty of time to work on the design, and it might give her a chance not to get angry at the community and fall back in. Most importantly, she submitted a rather good design.
<pygi> nobody knows anything :P
<jenda> pygi: who are we talking about?
<nixternal> mje
<nixternal> me
<jenda> ah
<jenda> nixternal: are you up for the job?
<pygi> jenda: nah, he got it wrong :P
<jenda> ah
<jenda> ...
<nixternal> she was released from Ubuntuforums?
* jenda is confused
<nixternal> me too
<pygi> jenda: Josip Lisec, he isnt actually part of community, but I am sure he would like to help
<pygi> and become part of the community if we allowed him that
<_sara> uhhm I think that we need to show the people that submitted other desing that we aprecited it, maybe Kassendra with ALck
<jenda> nixternal: yes, and several new mods, incl. me, were recruited
<ormiret> I'm not sure we need to go looking for more designers - we already have 7 to pick from
<jenda> I think so too
<jenda> pygi: I'm sorry, but I must say we've had a lot of time to submit design proposals, and it has been well announced, I think. IMO, we should choose among what we have.
<nixternal> what about Alecks?
<nixternal> he has the hottest look by far
<pygi> jenda: oki, no worries :)
<mhz> jenda: +1
<jenda> Ah, here's the original idea which i wanted to point out: http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/Design%20Mockups/Nestor%20Diaz/spread_ubuntu.png
<_sara> Maybe a mix of Alcks and Kassetra
<nixternal> the only thing i liked from Kassetra was the See It, Get It, Ship It stuff
<jenda> I'm not saying i like it, though :-D I'm interested in what you guys think of the radically different idea.
<nixternal> jenda: the original idea is HOT man!!!
<nixternal> how come that is the first time i have seen it?
<jenda> nixternal: I think we could ask kassetra and alecks to cooperate.
<jenda> nixternal: no idea :)
<jenda> Do you bazaar?
<jenda> :)
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> lol..i see it now
<nixternal> duh
* ormiret likes the speech bubbles
<nixternal> jenda: im sorry, with some tweaking the original is the way to go
<jenda> I think so too.
<nixternal> ya, i like how it incorporates EVERYTING UBUNTU
<jenda> So, that adds a third candidate?
<_sara> I actually don't like the originall
<nixternal> you have the circle of friends, the logo with every branch in it
<jenda> hehe :)
<nixternal> i think that is the perfect front page to a Spread Ubuntu portal
<jenda> yes - disagreement, that means discussion :)
<ormiret> hmm, I don't like the combination logo
<nixternal> i do however, it needs to be tweaked
<_sara> nixeranl, I see what you mean, but the page is not as attractive
<jenda> _sara: do you not like the idea or the way it's made?
<nixternal> the center is to big, and the portions are to skinny
* bimberi finally catches up
<nixternal> imbrandon created one a few months back that was killer
<jenda> that can always be adjusted, ya know :)
<jenda> nixternal: what??? :)
<_sara> I like the idea, not the execution, The way it was made, some new proposal are more attractive
<nixternal> exactly 
<jenda> _sara: And would you agree that having Spreadubuntu in this original design, if made with pro-quality, would be good?
<nixternal> the big spread ubuntu bubble up top needs to be tweaked, and reduce the amount of "White" 
<_sara> Jenda, I agree
<jenda> nixternal: I think it needs severe tweaking, but I _really_ love the new look.
<bimberi> of the designs i prefer that "speech bubble" one too
<nixternal> with tweaking of course...im hands down in favor of the original design with massive tweaking
<ormiret> is there any objections to the speech bubble idea?
<jenda> ormiret: Would you like the rest of the design if there was no combinated logo?
<bimberi> not sure about the mixed logo though - that would have to be cleared by canonical
<jenda> bimberi: check.
<ormiret> jenda: yes
<jenda> OK... I think we have clear consensus here :)
<_sara> but who will do it?
<jenda> Any objections to the general concept of the speech bubble circle of friends?
<jenda> _sara: point no. 2 :)
* nixternal says no
<nixternal> no objections that is
<bimberi> no objection here
<jenda> I believe we should approach nestor and ask him to refine the idea.
<_sara> no objection
<jenda> We might also email the mailing list and ask anyone else to contribute to the final form of the idea.
<nixternal> i would like to see the combo logo though, just cleaner and implemented better...i would like to see no less then say 5 versions of it?
<jenda> http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/Design%20Mockups/Nestor%20Diaz/
* mhz is sure, that whatever you decide, it will always be possible to get modified upon requests
<jenda> Mind you, there is an SVG available.
<ormiret> we are going to need someone very good at web design to pull off the speech bubbles well...
<nixternal> glass the bubbles with that human tint..i love that look
<_sara> excatly, I really don't want the use of flash
<nixternal> brown is becoming a color i really like..and i use kubuntu ;)
<nixternal> oh..ya, do not use flash
<bimberi> yes, keep it Free
<nixternal> otherwise new users who haven't figured out flash & ubuntu would hate us
<nixternal> exactly bimberi
<jenda> No flash, that is imperative, otherwise i quit :)
<jenda> So - what do you people think about:
<jenda> 1) Asking Nestor Diaz to further his idea
<jenda> 2) Asking the other designers to try and develop their own ideas on that idea
<jenda> 3) Making a general notice for outsiders to do the same
<jenda> 4) Repeating this meeting on August 13, same time and finally deciding which design goes?
<bimberi> ooh, now that's tempting ;P
<jenda> Please yay or nay this plan...
<_sara> yay
<nixternal> jenda: 5) All the above
<nixternal> ;)
<ormiret> I think we need to add we are looking for actual web design now - not more raster mockups
<jenda> ormiret: yes
<ormiret> yay
<bimberi> jenda +1
<jenda> mhz: your vote can count too :)
<_sara> +1
<jenda> Must have hurt his feelings, oh well :)
<bimberi> and +1 for actual web design too
<jenda> OK, if there are any objections later, please email me :)
* jenda is very happy about this being reached.
<nixternal> lol
<ormiret> adn without wiki polls :)
<nixternal> no doubt
<jenda> BTW, I'll ask kassetra to create one based on this with her icons in it :-D
<nixternal> only because jenda was holding back on that design ;)
<jenda> nixternal: shush!
<nixternal> hehe
<ormiret> have we got anything else to disciss?
<ormiret> (it's well past my bedtime)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i think the spread ubuntu design was a biggy
<nixternal> OH
<nixternal> YA, THE WIKI
<nixternal> it seems nobody is interested in helping out with Wiki topics and content
<nixternal> i have emailed the list, and have even had the spec update to the list for people to respond...response has been horrible
<ormiret> we really need a first draft to get feedback on
<jenda> hmm
<jenda> sorry, nix :)
<ormiret> then work from that to get soemthing everyone is happy with
<jenda> haha :)
<jenda> of course
<jenda> nixternal: I think /Marketing/Team would be a great place to include the GetInvolved page
<nixternal> there is a first draft and a second draft
<nixternal> me too jenda, and i will work on that
<bimberi> yes, that's essentially what nixternal has done
<nixternal> actually..i just might start the draft on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Marketing
<nixternal> and work it in from there
<jenda> and /Marketing/{SU;UM;MR}/ are great for the indiv. projects.
<ormiret> sorry, last time I looked all the text was just placeholders
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarektingTeam/WikiMockUp     &     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarektingTeam/WikiMockUp
<nixternal> v2 is the one we will be using, with some tweaking
<jenda> typos there :)
<jenda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/WikiMockupV2
<jenda> that's what i like more
<nixternal> it is just place holders ormiret, as i have aske dthe list to fill "in between the lines"...this is a community task, not a nixternal task..im just implementing everyones ideas into the page
<nixternal> heh, i didn't get the V2 in up there
<nixternal> sorry
<jenda> nixternal: I'll do my best to help fill in the gaps once i get back.
<ormiret> yeah, what I meant was put some actual text in there - not worrying too much about ti being perfect - and then people will start telling you what is wrong with it.
<nixternal> oh, i know you will jenda, you im not worried about...we have a lot of people that want things to get done on the team, and when i ask for assistance it doesn't happen..so it kind of annoyed me a little
<nixternal> see ormiret, i can do that with no problem, but that isn't involving the community..i don't want people to go, that was done by nixternal, i want them to say, check out what the Marketing Team did...just my concern i guess
<ormiret> I can help with coming up with some text
<ormiret> I actually meant to do this when you sent mail about it but I forgot...
* bimberi will try too
<nixternal> lol
<jenda> I understand what you mean. I felt similarly when the deadline of July 12 and no designs were made.
<jenda> :)
<ormiret> I think the community involvment will take care of itself once there is soemthing to edit, but a lot of people are reluctant to create stuff from scratch
<nixternal> i have noticed, there sure are a lot of people on the launchpad page, and some complained about getting knocked off a while back..and i would love to get them involved, so their involvment is a little more then a link on their launchpad stating they are a member
<bimberi> sometimes it's just better do mock something up totally and let people revise, rather than asking for "green field" contributions
* nixternal notes the sarcasm in that last statement if you couldn't tell ;)
* mhz lost power on his laptop
<nixternal> heh
<jenda> :)
<bimberi> it would be interesting to know why they're not involved
<nixternal> bimberi: +1
<jenda> bimberi: laziness, business
<bimberi> yes, possibly
<nixternal> there are people that want to help, but just don't know how to, i would love to target them on this project as well
<ormiret> I think ther are a lot of people who join teams they are interested in, even if they don't have the time / inclination to actually contribute much
<nixternal> i might goto the forums with that idea actually
<bimberi> or not in agreement with direction and not bothered to speak up
<nixternal> i know i shouldn't take it to heart but i do..i try to work hard had giving back to Ubuntu, because of everything Ubuntu has done and what it stands for...so me being apart of a team means a lot..i try to spread my time among all times equally..i can't always, but i try to
<ompaul> bimberi, you are correct, and think some would not be aware of it
<nixternal> so with that being said, it angers me at times when people join a team and do nothing, say nothing, and contribute nothing..and then complain or actually voice for once their opinion when you knock them off a list
<bimberi> perhaps we should make that a regular thing ;p
<nixternal> that just shows me that their involvement is just the link on their launchpad page making them seem larger..i don't know, and i hope i just didn't go against CoC...but i did go OT big time
<jenda> nixternal: I've advertised the MT on the forums before
<jenda> very successfully. OTOH, if we tried to do that again, we might be considered spammers :)
<nixternal> well, im going to advertise it to Ubuntu Chicago, as i have some guys that are interested in helping out, and are fairly new to the community
<jenda> nixternal: great :)
<ormiret> I'm not that worried about people being in the team that aren't doing much - they have shown an interest and they might do something to help in the future, kicking them out cause they haven't sone anything does annoy me though.
<jenda> BTW, same thinking as you are describing now led to my proposal (and execution) of the LP memberlist pruning, which ormiret so opposed to :)
<nixternal> well, i agree with you ormiret on that wholeheartedly, as im sure some are very busy in their personal life
<_sara> Well, but if they don't do anythin for a whole year maybe they should not be part of the eam
<nixternal> however, if possible, let us know that you are busy right now, and don't expect much..just odn't join a list and be idle..it isn't irc ;)
<ompaul> _sara, how do you know they don't take your magazine and publish 100 copies and give it to key influencers?
<ormiret> what harm do they do being on this list and not doing anything?
<nixternal> there is no harm at all
* jenda isn't even thinking of another mass kick. The people on there now have _expressed_ interest, which is good enough IMO.
<nixternal> lol
<_sara> ompaul, good point
<ompaul> jenda, how do you know they don't take your su and actually give away 300 disks - with no reference to the SU team but point people that way
<bimberi> their contributions may not be visible - advocacy fits into marketing for example
<nixternal> oh heck no jenda, but i think it needs to be said "hey, we have people here that want to work and are working, and there are a few of you on a list that we havn't heard from, please give us some input as to what.....fill in the rest"
<ompaul> just a question, it is more or less retorical
<jenda> BTW, all memberships last one year, so if they don't say they still want to be involved, they'll have to ping an admin again
<ompaul> jenda, well lets see they should not have to ping the admin should ping them
<jenda> ompaul: Am I saying anything? :)
<nixternal> we have a team of 47 according to launchpad..and i see at most 10 active
<ompaul> there is a good reason for that
<jenda> ompaul: LP will ping them.
<imbrandon> jenda: fyi ubuntu/kubuntu memberships are 2 years but yea
<bimberi> nixternal: that might be a pretty good ratio ;)
<ompaul>  ubuntu memberships is 2 years
<jenda> BTW - DIY Marketing itself is not exactly Marketing Team activity, IMO - That would be, eg. documenting local marketing activity to help DIY activity globally
<_sara> I have to add that some people are afraid to use a mailing list (I don't know why), and have contacted me personally
<jenda> imbrandon: I know, but MT are one year long.
<jenda> _sara: it's best to point them there, if you can :)
<ompaul> https://launchpad.net/people/?name=marketing&searchfor=all
<bimberi> jenda: keeping DIY Marketing materials up to date is though
* mhz confesses his interst in marketing an most of the stuff he's subscribed to is towards contributing Edubuntu
<jenda> bimberi: yes
<nixternal> mhz: that is still contributing!!!
<ompaul> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-marketing
<_sara> Jenda, they are actually on the mailing list, they just don't like to post (I don't know why)
<jenda> mhz: Mauricio Hernandez, innit? I don't see you on the list yet... you might want to do something about that :)
<ormiret> at least 80% of contribution in any group comes from <20% of users, you can't change that by kicking out the 80%
<jenda> strange..
<mhz> nixternal: yeah, but I get info about what each team is doing and then see how this can be applied to Edubuntu
<bimberi> ha, 80-20 applies in so may places
<jenda> ormiret: please, nobody plans to do that.
<jenda> yes, the ratio might even be worse.
<nixternal> i admit, i need to be working more with Edubuntu as well, as their philosophy is close to the heart and helping the youngsters
<ormiret> tends to be worse on internet projects sonce joining is so easy
<ompaul> nixternal, I can count at least 17 people I know to be active
<jenda> I'm among the top 40000 contributors to wikipedia, out of a lot over a million, with only 40 edits or so....
<nixternal> i just shot from the hip on that number ompaul, but thanks for clarifying it for me :)  i am horrible with numbers, so never trust me with them ;)
<ompaul> nixternal, I am not checking very hard .. so it is hard to work it 
<jenda> OK
<jenda> Is there anything else productive that we need to discuss?
* jenda won't forgive Burgwork for that... 
<nixternal> lol
* ompaul has to go and look after something here - l8r
<mhz> has spreadubuntu considered "booths" desing?
<nixternal> oh...everyone...Ubuntu Chicago, a LoCo team is having it's first meeting next thursday...we will be "Spreading Ubuntu"...i have over 200 CDs and stickers for the event, with more coming...So the Chicago team is working hard as well..great group of guys over there
<mhz> yay! \o/ \o/ \o/ !!
<ormiret> who's doing minutes?
<mhz> *\o/*
* nixternal isn't
<nixternal> hehe
* nixternal points at bimberi for the excellent ones in the past
<bimberi> mhz: lol
<nixternal> muhahah
<mhz> bimberi: learning is great
<bimberi> nixternal: get ....
<nixternal> hahahah
<nixternal> the minutes for this one will be simple...the design, and wiki...i htink hte the member list discussion could be left out
<bimberi> that said, it would seem the decision on the preferred design and jenda's plan really constitute the minutes
<jenda> bimberi: could you? :)
<jenda> ah...
<bimberi> ah, yes and the wiki
<nixternal> wiki:  Help out!!
<nixternal> that is it really on that ;)
<bimberi> yes    all    right
<jenda> mhz: Things of the sort will be part of the DIY section, but we will first have to create the structure to carry such content - the content will then be created by the community (and approved by SU admins)
<jenda> nixternal: +1, great wording on that one.
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> http://www.buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/KubuntuFlyer.odt      <-- Kubuntu flyer created from the KDE aKademy blurb myself and other doc team members worked on the other night
<mhz> jenda: okis, thx
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<HedgeMage> Hey folks, everyone ready to start?
* HedgeMage hears crickets
<HedgeMage> pygi, lloydinho, mhz... anyone out there?
<lloydinho_> oh, I'm not really here..
* lloydinho_ hides
<HedgeMage> hehe
* jenda waves at HedgeMage, but gets out of the way for the meeting. Already had my share today :)
<HedgeMage> hi jenda :)
<HedgeMage> I'll start whenever there are signs of life, folks.
* nixternal is listening in
* pygi listens :)
* Hawkwind Watches/listens
<mhz> re
<HedgeMage> Yay, life!
* mhz is here
<HedgeMage> First of all, I'd like to encourage anyone who's interested to check out http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuHandbook as I'll probably be referring to it or its sub-pages at some point.
* mhz offers colombian coffee and a piece of chocolate
<HedgeMage> mmm chocolate!
<HedgeMage> Would someone please be kind enough to offer to take minutes and post them to the edubuntu mailing list since RobinShepard isn't here today?
* mhz offers
<HedgeMage> Thanks, hon
* HedgeMage smooches mhz in thanks :)
<mhz> I udestand minutes is taking notes and sum it up in a doc?
<HedgeMage> yep
<mhz> then okis, I can do it today
<HedgeMage> then post to edubuntu-devel and/or edubuntu-user
<mhz> np
<HedgeMage> great.
<HedgeMage> Then, for the quick update for those who are new: "Edubuntu Cookbook" was voted to change to "Edubuntu Handbook" same content, less confusing name.
<mhz> great! Docbook is not a prerequisiste
<HedgeMage> Yep :)  We set up an "unofficial" (official to handbook but not sponsored by canonical) SVN repo for people who don't have ubuntu-doc SVN commit access and/or people who want to work in plain text or other non-docbook stuff and have others do the converting for them
<HedgeMage> that's at http://svn.binaryredneck.net/handbook and I'll give commit access to pretty much anyone who asks, since anything we commit to ubuntu-doc repo will get looked over first
<HedgeMage> if you need access, just pm me and I'll get to it after the meeting
<mhz> great! now I get why pygi was happy about trac
<HedgeMage> :)
<mhz> excellent, I will
<HedgeMage> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuHandbook/EdgyTasks is a sign-up sheet for people who want to work on a chapter (feel free to just update relevant content from the old cookbook if applicable)
* mhz has read all pages suggested by EdubuntuHandbook
<HedgeMage> We ask that no one be signed up for more than 3 unfinished chapters at a given time (feel free to take another if you've finished one of course)
<mhz> I have a couple of observations
<mhz> shall I ?
<HedgeMage> go for it!
<mhz> my main motivation to use Edubuntu is that I am close to many schools with PII and PIII
<pygi> mhz: why was I so happy? care to say? :)
<mhz> and a server would not be over PIV 1.2 GHz and 512 MB of ram
<mhz> so, EdubuntuHndbook seems to be for 'normal' Edubuntu labs
<mhz> using GNOME and default apps.
<mhz> In my case, I am forced to not use GNOME
<mhz> and choose XFCE or less
<HedgeMage> mhz: We'd love it if you'd like to do a chapter on other WMs that are available!
<mhz> (IceWM, Wmaker, Fluxbox, etC)
* HedgeMage bats her eyes at mhz as she tries to talk him into it
<HedgeMage> fvwm is extremely light, too, but takes lots of getting used to
<mhz> oh, so are you sure, scope is not only 'default' edubuntu?
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, devils advocate question: Why is that not in doc team svn
<Burgwork> ?
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: we just use the unofficial repo as an intermediary stem, it is going in the docteam svn repo
<mhz> pygi: I think because handbook is svn and so Trac is Moin + SVN :)
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: some people are working in plaintext or .odt and letting others convert, etc.
<Burgwork> taht is not an issue
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: which isn't an issue? I'm confused.
<Burgwork> taht people are using odd ball formats
<pygi> Burgwork: it was agreed me and hedge must provide patches first :)
<mhz> HedgeMage: then, in my case, it would mean I should 'add' subchapters in hardware reqs, printing, and backing up 
<Burgwork> if you dump a good deal of work on us right away, we will give you commit access
<Burgwork> taht is what happened with the xubuntu guy
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: Can we talk about that after the meeting? We've now gone through this six times with five different docteam people, all telling us slightly different versions of what we should be doing.
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: it kind of ate our last couple of meetings.
<Burgwork> sure, no worries
<HedgeMage> Thanks
<mhz> HedgeMage: then , ok to add subchapters?
<HedgeMage> mhz: hardware reqs, choosing and installing a light WM, and configuring a WM seem applicable
<HedgeMage> mhz: I'm not sure printing and backing up would change appreciably
<mhz> hmm, basically, my setups are through webbrowser
<mhz> and fro backing up
<mhz> no idea what the defualt app is
<HedgeMage> mhz: how about a "part" entitled "Working with light Window Managers" and then whatever chapters you think it need under that?
<HedgeMage> make the light wm one part IV and make the current part IV part V
<mhz> wiser, lot wiser
<HedgeMage> if that makes sense.
<HedgeMage> Anyone have thoughts?
<mhz> HedgeMage: is this book to be printed?
<mhz> or mostly online?
<pygi> mhz: Lulu
* HedgeMage hears crickets
<mhz> ok
<mhz> pygi: and how about trasnlations?
<HedgeMage> mhz: please add the needed part/chapters to EdgyOutline and EdgyTasks, and don't forget to add yourself to the contributors list in the "unofficial" svn repo
<pygi> mhz: there will also be printed translations on lulu
<mhz> Some people (spanish speakers) have asked me if it is ok to start translating handbook chapters. I have said "let's wait till is done"
<pygi> mhz: they can translate edubuntu cookbook (dapper) if they want
<HedgeMage> We also need to get done on time for once to give translators time to do their magic
<HedgeMage> Can we use this meeting time to hack out some kind of timeline or schedule?
<mhz> yeah
<mhz> HedgeMage: what kind of timeline you mean?
<mhz> per chapter priorities?
<HedgeMage> mhz: a little of that and some general "first draft" "final draft" "proofreading" deadlines
<HedgeMage> I work best under a deadline :)
<mhz> me too!
<HedgeMage> perhaps one of the mainline doc people can weigh in here with reasonable suggestions?
* HedgeMage looks at Burgwork 
* HedgeMage looks for other docteam people
<mhz> HedgeMage: well, 
<mhz> Should this be ready before October
<mhz> or November?
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-22
<mhz> i mean, if the purpose is to be printed out for Edgy
<mhz> I have no idea how long printing takes
<mhz> I do know that if we can write a chapter in 2 weeks
<mhz> it is just a matter of sum up
<HedgeMage> I'd like to aim to be ready for translators by mid-november
<mhz> so, this is "post-edgy"?
<HedgeMage> ack meant september
<HedgeMage> sorry brain cramp
<mhz> your LISP!
<mhz> hehehe
<HedgeMage> hehe
<pygi> mhz: they print same day you order
<pygi> dont worry about that
<mhz> well, if I am to write about light stuff and they way we use edubuntu, I know that in 2 months, I have plenty of time, considering my uneployment ;)
<HedgeMage> heh
<HedgeMage> Okay, so let's say September 15th for final drafts, September 22nd to have everything proofread?
<HedgeMage> Sound good?
<HedgeMage> Or would translators need more time?
<mhz> rulz to me
<mhz> depends..
<HedgeMage> I've never done the translation thing, so I have no clue what they need.
<mhz> I can translate into spanish about 4 or 6 pages a day, depending on how much I like/understand the subject
<HedgeMage> I'm sure some things will be done earlier than the deadline (theoretically)
<mhz> (that is professionally)
* HedgeMage nods
* pygi thinks hosting guys seriously need some kicking
* mhz is Translator and Interpreter
<HedgeMage> cool
<mhz> the thing is I have no idea how fast and good can a non-translator do
<HedgeMage> How about this: we ask everyone doing >1 chapter to have at least one chapter done and proofed by September one, then the rest by the regular deadline?
<mhz> I know some guys get 8 pages a day (each page is 250 words)
<HedgeMage> That should give our translators a head start.
<mhz> but I do not usually like the quality
<mhz> HedgeMage: yeah!
<mhz> good thinking
<HedgeMage> quality is our #1 priority... if it's not easy to understand, docs are useless.
<HedgeMage> Thanks!
<HedgeMage> That sound good to everyone else?
<mhz> HedgeMage: i'd suggest less time
* pygi nods, he's just concerned why are we doing post-edgy when freeze is soon anyway
<mhz> HedgeMage: could you tell me what you understand by '1 chapter'
<HedgeMage> pygi: can you rephrase that, I'm finding it hard to parse
<HedgeMage> mhz: if you look at EdgyOutline, I'd consider each of the bulleted items to be a chapter
<mhz> pygi: i guess she means post-edgy basically considering how many hands we have
<pygi> mhz: right, but we dont want that :P
<mhz> yeah
<mhz> but do we have more people now?
<HedgeMage> wait, who said what about post-edgy?
<pygi> well, not really, but we have dedicated people :)
* HedgeMage is totally lost
<pygi> HedgeMage: nothing, dont worry
* HedgeMage is confused.
<HedgeMage> (not that that's unusual)
<pygi> dont be, lets continue
<mhz> okis
<HedgeMage> OK
<HedgeMage> Last order of business: any idea where we could look for 2-3 more good contributors?
<mhz> my guess is
<mhz> the most consuming task is proofreading
<mhz> esp. considering that I am not native speaker of english
<HedgeMage> I *might* have two proofreaders for us... teachers my mom knows who are interested in edubuntu
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, ideally, it would be nice if you could hit the docteam string freeze
<mhz> I hardly get contributors in spanish for edubuntu :(
<Burgwork> that is sept
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: sept what?
<mhz> Burgwork: that is not for translations, or with it
<mhz> ?
<pygi> Burgwork: sept 1?
<pygi> HedgeMage: I think we could do it by that date
<mhz> yeah
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: Sept what and for base copy done or base + translations?
<mhz> pygi: how many hours a day can you work on EHB ?
* HedgeMage wants more details first.
<mhz> HedgeMage: same question 
* mhz can work 1 or 2 hours a day on EHB
<pygi> mhz: I cant really do an estimate, but last time me and Hedge wrote entire handbook in like few days/night probably
<pygi> without sleep :)
<pygi> all depends on how much I'll have to work on some other stuff
<HedgeMage> The amazing part is that it made sense the next day
* pygi nods
<HedgeMage> My life is unpredictable right now, but I'll probably average an hour a day and then do a huge burst at the end
<HedgeMage> My usual MO is that I'm most productive with a looming deadline
<mhz> yeah TT!
<HedgeMage> that's why firm deadlines are important :)
<mhz> yup, I agree
<mhz> no deadline, i relax so much
<HedgeMage> exactly
<mhz> HedgeMage: maybe Yagisn can help us on Security chapters
<mhz> Yagisan
<HedgeMage> That's a great idea
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, the freeze is for translation work
<HedgeMage> I'm going to spend this weekend taking the docbook dump of the old stuff, slicing it up into chapter-sized chunks, and re-organizing it to match our current outline as much as possible
<HedgeMage> it'll be on the temp repo by monday (hopefully) 
<Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
<Burgwork> that says Sept 14th
<HedgeMage> I'd appreciate nagging from any well-meaning people :)
<Burgwork> translations happen from that date until release
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: thanks, so then we just need to adjust what we talked about by a couple of days.
<HedgeMage> Okay, so final copies by Sept 8th, proofread by the 14th and everyone still try to get one chapter in early, say around Aug 30?
<HedgeMage> Does that work?
* HedgeMage prods Burgwork, pygi, and mhz 
<mhz> Burgwork: very little tme to trasnlate or not?
<pygi> HedgeMage: no, sept 1 all done I would say :)
<mhz> HedgeMage: yeah, Sept 1st
<HedgeMage> pygi: we want quality work... an extra week can do a lot.
* HedgeMage ponders
<HedgeMage> compromise? Sept 1st for final drafts, Sept 8th for proofreading to be done?
<mhz> HedgeMage: yes, indeed, proofread and last minute changes by Sep 10th?
<Burgwork> mhz, that gives you about 6 weeks
<HedgeMage> 0th, perfect.
<HedgeMage> 10th even
<HedgeMage> Anything else before we close up? Or shall we schedule our next meeting and adjourn?
<mhz> let me get this right for minutes prupose
<mhz> sep 1st -> freeze
<mhz> ?
<mhz> sep 2nd to 10th -> proofread and possible changes ?
<HedgeMage> yep
<HedgeMage> 11th and on is translation
<mhz> until?
<HedgeMage> September 29th We need to have the finished English versions and all translations that are ready... we can add late translations after that, if needed
<HedgeMage> but if we think something (like Spanish) will be widely used, we should shoot for the 29th
<mhz> oh, ok, it is from 11th to 29th -> tranlations
* HedgeMage nods
* mhz wonders?
<HedgeMage> wonders what?
* HedgeMage can't answer questions she doesn't know :P
* mhz wonders why HedgeMage nods about
* mhz realizes about it just now
<HedgeMage> ahh, confirming 11-29 being translation time
<mhz> yup
<HedgeMage> I'll put this all on the Handbook LP calendar, too
<mhz> and I'll put it on the minutes
<HedgeMage> cool
<HedgeMage> last thing... when to meet next?
<mhz> 1 week?
<mhz> weekly is good
<HedgeMage> next friday good for everyone?
<mhz> hmm, my only concern is times
<pygi> HedgeMage: not for me probably, but oh well :-/
<HedgeMage> nothing on the fridge for that day, so we have our pick of times
<mhz> I prefer early mornings
<HedgeMage> pygi: when are you free then?
<mhz> or after dinner
<HedgeMage> mhz: I have no clue what time zone you are in so that doesn't help much :P
<mhz> I am UTC -4
<HedgeMage> let alone when you eat dinner :P
<pygi> HedgeMage: friday should be fine (perhaps) but anything after 4 UTC I probably wont be able to attend
<mhz> therfore, my best choices are any time before  11UTC
<mhz> or after 23 UTC
* HedgeMage figures out when 3 UTC is for her... 
<mhz> pygi: which TZ are you in?
<HedgeMage> 8pm thursday night for me, I can do that next week but probably not regularly
<mhz> HedgeMage: same question
<mhz> but we can always rotate
<pygi> mhz: UTC+2 I think
<HedgeMage> I'm UTC -7
<pygi> ergh, I am GMT+2
<mhz> HedgeMage: so you are  15:40 ?
<HedgeMage> yep
<mhz> pygi: GMT = UTC
<HedgeMage> mhz: only for half of the year
<pygi> mhz: I know :P
<mhz> oh
<HedgeMage> mhz: GMT does daylight savings, UTC does not
* pygi nods
<mhz> oh, that is the diff!
<HedgeMage> yep :)
<pygi> so please, whevener you want
<pygi> I am not important
<mhz> pygi: so you are 23:41?
<HedgeMage> I'll brb TT needs help
<pygi> mhz: 00:48? :)
<mhz> ohh
<HedgeMage> so, meeting times?
<HedgeMage> I can do UTC 3:00 Friday if need be
<pygi> ergh, ok, I put it wrong :P
<pygi> 16:00 UTC :P
<pygi> *replace 4 UTC with 16 UTC
* mhz has done a spreadsheet to have it clear
<HedgeMage> ok, mhz when before 16 UTC is good for you?
<pygi> HedgeMage: sorry for mixup :(
<HedgeMage> I need to sleep at some point, could we all do 15 UTC?
<HedgeMage> mhz, pygi?
<mhz> HedgeMage: based on my spreadsheet with our 3 TZs
<pygi> sure
<pygi> mhz: please do apply for team also
<pygi> thanks
<mhz> HedgeMage: could you do 13UTC?
<HedgeMage> only if I have to... that's 6am here
<mhz> oh, yeah, then 15 UTC
<mhz> thursday?
<mhz> fridays gimme the feeling of after meeting, nothing will be done
<mhz> anyways, I dont want to be a pain
<mhz> rotating is also good
<mhz> HedgeMage: pygi ?
<mhz> pygi: team in LP?
<pygi> mhz: yes, team in LP
<mhz> so, 15 UTC thursday... good for everyone?
<HedgeMage> sure :)
<mhz> and if you need me to be up at anytime after 05 AM, no worries, I can be up if needed.
<HedgeMage> :)
<mhz> as long as is not usual :)
<HedgeMage> I'll see you all Thursday :)
<mhz> thx
<HedgeMage> Meeting over :D
<mhz> cool
* HedgeMage goes back to #edubuntu
* mhz start minutes after a good coffee
* mhz goes play with daughter a bit
<HedgeMage> :D
<mhz> no TT
<mhz> bye pygi , by Hawkwind 
<pygi> bye all :)
<mhz> bye pygi , by HedgeMage 
<pygi> enjoy mhz
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-16
<greg_g> schedule
<greg_g> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<greg_g> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 16 Jul 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00: Kernel Team
<greg_g> @schedule Detroit
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 16 Jul 18:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team
<j_ack> @schedule Berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 17 Jul 00:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 17 Jul 08:00: Forum Council | 18 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 18 Jul 05:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Jul 01:00: Kernel Team
<Meyvn> isn't there supposed to be a meeting now?
<simira> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 16 Jul 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00: Kernel Team
<ubuntugeek> 1 hour from now
<simira> uh, 5 mins?
<simira> oh, right
<simira> summertime
<ubuntugeek> that got me too :)
<Meyvn> ;)
<Meyvn> I'm not part of the forum council, am I supposed to leave the channel?
<Mithrandir> no
<Meyvn> ok
<Mithrandir> well, you're of course free to, but you're welcome to attend the meeting, just either be quiet or productive
<Meyvn> it's my first meeting, so should be interesting to listen and see how things are done
<stgraber> Some people here (like me) are on that channel 24/24 and when they have time simply follow a meeting or another, it's a really good way to learn interesting new things
<Meyvn> stgraber: I agree completely.
<forumsmatthew> everyone is welcome to be here during the meeting
<Meyvn> shouldn't the meeting have already started?
<stgraber> @time
<stgraber> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 16 2007, 21:23:04 - Next meeting: Forum Council in 36 minutes
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 16 2007, 21:23:05 - Next meeting: Forum Council in 36 minutes
<stgraber> didn't know which one was the correct one, seems like both are :)
<Meyvn> hmm seems like I won't be able to attend sadly, it's almost 11:25 PM here and I have a Ruby on Rails workshop early in the morning
<Meyvn> goodnight!
<stgraber> good night Meyvn
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Forum Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<MikeB-> greetings
<forumsmatthew> hello
<MikeB-> get UG message about being late?
<compiledkernel> yep
<compiledkernel> sure did
<Vorian> hey hey hey
<forumsmatthew> yeah
<jdong> yeah
<jdong> he will be quite a bit late
<jdong> I spoke with him moments ago
<forumsmatthew> kiwi is on his way
<Vorian> hi ronnietucker :)
<MikeB-> excellent, glad Kiwi can make it
<ronnietucker> hi Vorian  :)
<Vorian> darkog, are you around?
<Vorian> w00t! KiwiNZ :)
<forumsmatthew> welcome!
<MikeB-> greet Kiwi
<KiwiNZ> Greetings folks I have escaped a meeting at work
<forumsmatthew> 4/5 are here. again, ubuntu-geek will be quite late
<forumsmatthew> shall we get going?
<MikeB-> sounds like a plan
<KiwiNZ> yep
<forumsmatthew> Vorian...what's first?
<Vorian> Full Circle Magazine
<Vorian> Application for 3rd Party Forum.
<Vorian> ronnietucker, you are up :)
<ronnietucker> Hi all, thanks Vorian
<forumsmatthew> what can we do for you?
<Vorian> sorry forgot to post the agenda
<Vorian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<ronnietucker> well, UbuntuForums helped give birth to FullCircle and we'd like to apply for a 3rd Party forum
<ronnietucker> we do have a forum at the moment but ideally we'd like to get rid of it and use the 3rd Party forum instead
<KiwiNZ> I am impressed with fullcircle its a credit to its creators
<ronnietucker> (since most of our forum members are members on UF anyway)
<forumsmatthew> anyone have any questions?
<Vorian> ronnietucker, who will you want to assist you as a moderator of your forum?
<ronnietucker> thanks KiwiNZ, couldn't have done it without UF's help in the first place
<MikeB-> what would the forum be used for, feedback to the magazine, communication between writers?
<ronnietucker> i'd like to be linuxgeekery, he's our admin for web stuff
<KiwiNZ> Will members be able to submit stories through a 3rd party forum
<ronnietucker> we'd like to use it more for reader assistance.
<ronnietucker> mrmonday is our IRC guy and he's always helping people out on IRC so he'd also be seen in there quite a bit helping people
<ronnietucker> KiwiNZ: if they want to yep
<jdong> sorry, stepping out for about 2min
<forumsmatthew> anyone have any other questions, thoughts, or concerns about the idea?
<ronnietucker> we accept articles from any angle then put them up on our private wiki for proof-reading
<KiwiNZ> I have no concerns
<MikeB-> none hear, strong +1 from me
<forumsmatthew> I'm in with a huge +1
<KiwiNZ> yep has my vote
<forumsmatthew> shall we give jdong a chance to chime in, even though the vote has passed?
<Vorian> majority has it either way forumsmatthew :)
<KiwiNZ> only if he makes the coffee
<ronnietucker> i'll stay for the duration of the meeting if anyone else wants to ask anything?
<MikeB-> great, we will ask jdong when he returns
<forumsmatthew> cool. glad to have you around ronnietucker
<forumsmatthew> we can move to the next item
<MikeB-> yep
<Vorian> Is anyone here for the Partners Lounge?
<ronnietucker> no problem
<ronnietucker> thanks forumsmatthew
<MikeB-> anyone?
<Vorian> Ubuntu Partners Lounge
<Vorian> and other people trying to work and deploy ubuntu into the enterprise environment can discuss and share knowledge.
<Vorian> hold on a sec
<Vorian> there is a thread on the forum too
<Vorian> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2906525#post2906525
<KiwiNZ> brb phone
<Vorian> I think its a good idea
<PriceChild> What are "SME markets"?
<Burgundavia> PriceChild: small medium enterprises
<forumsmatthew> it's not a bad idea. Do we have anyone around who would want to take responsibility for the forum?
<PriceChild> thanks Burgundavia
<compiledkernel> small business to medium business modles PriceChild
<forumsmatthew> other than general moderation
<compiledkernel> models even
<KiwiNZ> back
<PriceChild> thanks compiledkernel :)
<forumsmatthew> I think the idea is okay, but if there isn't anyone around to get it off the ground, I'm not sure it is something worth starting
<Vorian> forumsmatthew, I'll email him and see if he can make it ASAP :)
<forumsmatthew> Vorian is looking for the person who recommended the idea
<MikeB-> sounds like an interesting idea,   but the server area of the forum covers a lot of what this would do
<forumsmatthew> shall we give him a minute to see if he can be found?
<MikeB-> let move on, and see if he shows up later
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, +1
<forumsmatthew> what's next on the agenda?
<Vorian> how about your issue MikeB-?
<forumsmatthew> I kind of started that, based on conversations among the staff
<MikeB-> fine, unless there are launchpad people who are waiting?
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, good call
<mrevell> MikeB-: I'm here but will fit your agenda :)
<forumsmatthew> let's discuss the Launchpad stuff first
<mrevell> Shall I go ahead, then?
<forumsmatthew> please
<MikeB-> agreed, go ahead Matt
<mrevell> Hello everyone! I work for Canonical in the Launchpad team.
* beuno pops in for this
<mrevell> I'm here to get your thoughts on how we can start to make Launchpad and the Ubuntu Forums work together more closely.
<mrevell> As you probably know, the Ubuntu wiki already uses Launchpad to authenticate users.
<mrevell> This makes it easier for wiki users because they only have one username and password to remember for both Launchpad and the wiki.
<mrevell> In the Launchpad team, we think that a similar arrangement would be useful to the Ubuntu Forums.
<mrevell> We're proposing that the Ubuntu Forums use Launchpad to authenticate users. So, within time, Ubuntu Forums users would use their Launchpad username and password to log into the forums.
<mrevell> Initially, I want to let you know what we have in mind and to get your feedback. If you're happy with what I suggest, then obviously I need to get your approval and your requirements.
<mrevell> The first thing to say is that our proposal is based around one main aim:
<mrevell> to minimise the impact on Ubuntu Forums users and staff.
<mrevell> So, that means the Launchpad team would do all the heavy lifting.
<mrevell> To get this to work, we think we'd need to do the following:
<mrevell> * Create a custom plugin for VBulletin that lets it communicate with Launchpad to authenticate users.
<mrevell> * Update Launchpad to communicate with the custom VBulleting plugin.
<mrevell> * During a time-frame to be decided by the Forums Council, forums users are able to link the forums id to their Launchpad account. If a forum user doesn't have a Launchpad account, we'll create a new one for them
<mrevell> * After the account claiming period, the current style of logging into the forums is switched off and all forums users have to log in using their Launchpad account.
<mrevell> Account claiming will be manual and will not use the Launchpad id filed in the forums user profiles.
<mrevell> So, timescales.
<mrevell> We can have the VBulletin plugin ready as early as the end of this month.
<mrevell> Assuming you're good to go on the proposal, we'd need your requirements for how you want this to work.
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-17
<mrevell> Depending on getting your approval and your requirements matching what we think is necessary, we'd ideally like to the Launchpad code rolled-out for our 1.1.8 release due 22 August 2007.
<MikeB-> Matt, Ryan and Launchpad developer have talked before, the discussion has not gotten far. In fact the forums asked to have peoples forum username listed on their LP account, but it was shot down since LP is not just a Ubuntu project
<KiwiNZ> Will this add extra steps for our customers
<KiwiNZ> Its important thatusers needing help can access the forums quickly
<mrevell> MikeB-: I'd certainly like to hear about previous discussions but this is a new proposal that we hope could make life easier for forums users.
<forumsmatthew> will the current 342,404 forums users all have to register for launchpad accounts if they don't already have them? that will be an interesting logistic challenge
<KiwiNZ> especially with the Likes of Dell users
<MikeB-> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/102204
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102204 in launchpad "UbuntuForums username in Launchpad Profile" [Undecided,New] 
<mrevell> KiwiNZ: Sigining up for a Launchpad account is quick and painless and would be easily done from the Ubuntu Forums.
<mrevell> forumsmatthew: I'll come to that in a sec :)
<mrevell> thanks MikeB-
<mrevell> Depending on getting your approval and your requirements matching what we think is necessary, we'd ideally like to the Launchpad code rolled-out for our 1.1.8 release due 22 August 2007. If testing goes well, we could start the process of allowing forums users to claim Launchpad accounts soon after.
<mrevell> So, that's our proposal.
<mrevell> forumsmatthew: We could create a new Launchpad account for any forums users who don't claim an account within the period you decide
<mrevell> forumsmatthew: It is a lot of people but I'm assured that it's not a problem for us to handle.
<KiwiNZ> brb phone
<mrevell> forumsmatthew: If there are specific technical reassurances that you'd like, then I can put you in touch with the relevant developer.
<forumsmatthew> I'm interested, but undecided. I would really want to hear ubuntu-geek's take on the technical aspects of the idea
<forumsmatthew> I know there are some non-FC people with comments. Anyone want to ask a question or give some thoughts?
<MikeB-> I think it is a fine idea, but I think there should be an option to allow people only to have an forum account. the whole launchpad thing may scare away new users
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, +1
<mrevell> MikeB-: I agree that signing up for an account should be as unscary as it is now.
<MikeB-> I think Ubuntu-geek needs to be apart of this discussion.
<MikeB-> also
<forumsmatthew> MikeB-, +1 again. I couldn't and wouldn't decide on this without him present
<mrevell> MikeB-: If ubuntu-geek is not available right now then I'd be more than happy to talk to you guys another time this week when ubuntu-geek is around.
<SD-Plissken> What will be done about those members who don't want a launchpad account? Reason being there's members who only like to participate in certain sections of the forums that do not deal with support.
<forumsmatthew> he is stuck in traffic and hopes to get here soon
<mrevell> forumsmatthew: Ah, I see
<Burgundavia> SD-Plissken: there are lots of user who have LP accounts only for the Ubuntu wiki
<beuno> I have a comment about integrating Launchpad and the Forums from a different perspective, bugs. So whenever it's appropriate, please let me know  :D
<Burgundavia> so it probably better to think of LP as an Ubuntu-specific OpenID thingy
<forumsmatthew> beuno, go ahead
<mrevell> SD-Plissken: Hi. For those users, there's no obligation on them to participate in Launchpad or other parts of the Ubuntu community that use Launchpad for authentication. To them, LP would just be where their username and password are stored. They'd still log in as usual.
<MikeB-> Matt, can you e-mail your proposal to forums-council@lists.ubuntu.com if Ubuntu-geek does not make it in time. So discussion can happen before you 22-Aug-07 deadline?
<mrevell> Burgundavia: That's a good way to think of it.
<mrevell> MikeB-: Sure, I'll do that tomorrow (getting late here).
<mrevell> beuno: Happy to take your question if the council guys feel we have time.
<MikeB-> beuno: it is an open forum, please go ahead
<beuno> thanks forumsmatthew, basically I've been trying for months to integrate launchpad bugs into forum threads, so it's easier to know if a problem is still relevant 6 months later, I have already explained it well enoguh a few times, so I'll just paste the links: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-users/2007-March/001184.html and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-users/2007-March/001219.html aaand http://ubuntuforums.org/showth
<beuno> read.php?p=2299093
<mrevell> beuno: Thank you. May I re-read those posts and come back to you tomorrow on the launchpad-users list?
<Vorian> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2299093
<beuno> mrevell: sure, but, in this case, it's more a forum thing then Launchpad
<jdong> hi I'm back
<jdong> did you miss me?
<PriceChild> If launchpad accounts can be created on launchpad "seamlessly" from existing ubuntuforums member accounts, I don't think we should worry about users not wanting a launchpad account SD-Plissken. Its one more push in the right direction for a lot of users to try and get involved somehow, and if they don't want a launchpad account, then they don't want to participate in the community?
<jdong> (it was mako's fault)
<mrevell> beuno: Ah, okay, I'll use that forum thread
<jdong> Vorian: record a +1 to fullcircle for me :)
<beuno> mrevell: the forum thread is probably the shortest
<Vorian> thanks jdong
<mrevell> PriceChild: Yeah, absolutely. It's not a way of making people use Launchpad, it's just a way of giving them one sign-in. If they never want to use Launchpad or the Ubuntu wiki, then they don't have to.
<mrevell> MikeB-: So, I'll mail you tomorrow and we can continue the discussion that way. Thank you for your time guys.
<forumsmatthew> Thanks, Matt.
<beuno> I should also note that I've found a "not very ideal but works" method of making all of that work independently of LP and the forums, which should be deployable the next weeks, but I'd love it if it wasn't something seperate
<MikeB-> thanks Matt
<beuno> mrevell: thanks, ba bye
<mrevell> thanks all
<Vorian> thanks mrevell
<KiwiNZ> Sorry back again
<forumsmatthew> ug is here!
<PriceChild> speak of the devil
<ubuntugeek> howdy
<mrevell> Aha :)
<ubuntugeek> i miss anything?
<forumsmatthew> yes
<jdong> ubuntugeek: cupcakes
<ubuntugeek> i love cupcakes
<ubuntugeek> cool so were we at?
<PriceChild> *gets logs*
<mrevell> Would you prefer that I post to the list? Or should I post a small summary?
<forumsmatthew> both
<forumsmatthew> :)
<forumsmatthew> let's see what we can do right now, here
<MikeB-> up to you, if you have to go, almost midnight in UK?
<forumsmatthew> 22:34
<PriceChild> hmm fabionne's logs are awry
<forumsmatthew> same as me
<PriceChild> 23:32 in uk
<KiwiNZ> I need to do a lot of reading about your proposal mrevell especially impact on customer service
<ubuntugeek> i got about 20 mins, i'm double booked by accident.
<forumsmatthew> really? oh, yeah...summertime
<forumsmatthew> okay, let's move that to the FC mailing list for now and hit our last agenda item, then
<mrevell> Ok guys, thanks
<mrevell> KiwiNZ: Let's chat about this, I'm sure we can make it as smooth as possible.
<KiwiNZ> always available
<ubuntugeek> Ok whats left on the agenda/
<forumsmatthew> staff emeritus
<Vorian> 
<Vorian> Staff Emeritus
<Vorian> Talking about giving special title to ex-staff members.
<MikeB-> Staff Emeritus
<Vorian> :)
<MikeB-> and I'm Lag Emeritus
<MikeB-> :)
<forumsmatthew> the discussion is whether to give the title to all former staff, or only to those who have distinguished themselves in some way
* beuno watches the bug integration slip through the cracks again
<KiwiNZ> maybe its a bug beuno
<mrevell> beuno: I'd like to pick it up from the LP side.
<forumsmatthew> "emeritus" is a special term given to one who has previously served in a position, as a way to honor them
<beuno> KiwiNZ: I wouldn't, can't see it in the forums  :p
<forumsmatthew> it is usually reserved for "above and beyond the call of duty" cases
<beuno> mrevell: I'd love to see it implemented on both/any, it would be very useful
<KiwiNZ> I agree with the emeritus idea but we need to make sure they are not confused with current staff
<forumsmatthew> KiwiNZ, agreed
<KiwiNZ> a diferent color
<forumsmatthew> so far there are four people who have the title
<MikeB-> Kiwi: +1
<forumsmatthew> their names are in black, like standard registered users
<SD-Plissken> kind of hard to mix the two as it stands. being you guys,and gals are red.
<forumsmatthew> but they have a special user rank icon
<forumsmatthew> and can give themselves custom user titles, if they want to
<ubuntugeek> hmm so your proposal for LP integration would probably cripple the forums from being upgraded in the future.
<jdong> may I point out from my experience on another major forum (BBR)....
<KiwiNZ> I think its great to recognise contribution
<MikeB-> maybe purple
<jdong> often users do not understand what "emeritus" means
<jdong> so it may be a good idea to link the title to some explanation popup
<KiwiNZ> good point
<jdong> or less idealy, pick a different word
<forumsmatthew> jdong, not a bad idea. I also updated the FAQ
<ubuntugeek> it would be a logistical nightmare to make that work
<ronnietucker> what about an Honorary Member ?...  :)
<jdong> yeah, I understand this is treading on CSS fairies ground
<jdong> yeah, Honorary, VIP, etc
<jdong> though I love the word emeritus for this
<jdong> I have seen cases of confusion on BBR about this
<forumsmatthew> I would rather educate people than water down the honor
<jdong> forumsmatthew: +1
<MikeB-> forumsmatthew, agree
<forumsmatthew> do we want to talk about how we will choose people to receive the honor?
<PriceChild> we don't explain normal titles, give list of who gets what etc. I think no explanation of "emeritus" should be given. The golden beans, title and individuality will cause people to look up the word.
<forumsmatthew> PriceChild, we can only hope so :)
<darkmatter> ronnietucker: different thing. emeritus is more "served with honour". we just need a nice synonym for the tiltle that a)makes sense b) sound "lofty" :P and c) is straight to the point
<jdong> PriceChild: you're new here, aren't you?
<jdong> </slashdotjoke>
<forumsmatthew> I for one welcome our new emeritus overlords
<forumsmatthew> sorry...meme
<jdong> :)
<darkmatter> lol
<jdong> poor Vorian , he's gonna have to edit our lame jokes :D
<forumsmatthew> in soviet russia, honor chooses you
<darkmatter> jdong: how about "Darth"?
<Vorian> jdong, this meeting will require a LOT of editing :)
<jdong> Darth?
<jdong> Vorian: that's what she said!
<darkmatter> instead of emeritus
<Vorian> =)
<darkmatter> just stick gdarth before the username
<forumsmatthew> darth emeritus
<jdong> darkmatter: too star war-y
<darkmatter> :P
<compiledkernel> *shoo**shee*shoo**shee* Luke.....I am your father.....
<KiwiNZ> What about Forum Elder
<forumsmatthew> so, how shall we choose who to receive the honor
<jdong> KiwiNZ: umm....
<jdong> I can see females finding that offensive
<forumsmatthew> KiwiNZ, that makes them sound old
<jdong> and maybe some sensitive males too
<PriceChild> majority FC agreement after staff opinion's taken into consideration?
<jdong> but anyway, I think we should talk about the concept first
<jdong> and not the name
<KiwiNZ> its non gender specific
<forumsmatthew> PriceChild, I like that
<PriceChild> same as what we use for everything else...? :)
<jdong> KiwiNZ: I know my mom would hurt me if I called her the Household Elder...
<forumsmatthew> any comments on PriceChild 's idea for choosing whom to bestow the honor upon
<jdong> my point is it won't always be construed as an honorary title
<Vorian> I like "Staff Emeritus" and the golden beans
<PriceChild> hehe not exactly my idea :P
<jdong> forumsmatthew: yeah, I think that's a good idea
<forumsmatthew> are there any objections to choosing the recipients of the honor in this way
<forumsmatthew> by anyone?
<KiwiNZ> we could just put an explanation of the title staff emeritus and add a role of honour
<forumsmatthew> http://ubuntuforums.org/announcement.php?f=48
<forumsmatthew> under who are the staff
<forumsmatthew> You may see a few people hanging around the forums with an "emeritus staff" title. These are former staff. Emeritus means retired or honorably discharged from active professional duty, but retaining the title of one's office or position: like a dean emeritus of a graduate school; or a newspaper editor in chief emeritus.
<forumsmatthew> (I put that in last week...)
<MikeB-> sorry back, emergency phone call
<KiwiNZ> Add the members of the title as a role of honour under that mathew
<forumsmatthew> I can do that
<SD-Plissken> forumsmattew they will be picked by their former co-staffers, and final decisions will be made the FC?
<KiwiNZ> I think that would cover it
<forumsmatthew> nominated by current staff
<forumsmatthew> only former staff are eligible
<forumsmatthew> chosen by the FC
<KiwiNZ> I agree matthew
<jdong> likewise
<forumsmatthew> any other thoughts from anyone?
<SD-Plissken> So not everyone that is nominated will get it?
<Vorian> sounds like a winner
<forumsmatthew> SD-Plissken, potentially
<forumsmatthew> I can't give an absolute answer either way
<SD-Plissken> Sounds like the way they run the baseball hall of fame..
<Vorian> that's a good model :)
<jdong> sorry, not a sports person... is there a history of issues with how baseball halls of fame are run?
<forumsmatthew> hey, it's been beta tested by others
<SD-Plissken> forumsmattew Are there any limits on the amount of time a person can be nominated?
<jdong> I'd expect it to be a single-time event
<jdong> unless there is a dispute about integrity of the voting process
<forumsmatthew> I don't know that we really intend to codify the process that deeply, though
<forumsmatthew> I would think that most of the time the nominees qualifications would be pretty obvious
<MikeB-> should be a one time vote
<SD-Plissken> jdong you telling me that if the person does not get the FC vote that one time theres no chance for them to be renominated?
<KiwiNZ> I agree a single event witha a right of review
<forumsmatthew> if they aren't, then we would still be grateful for their contributions, but not give a title
<forumsmatthew> just a thought...
<ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew sounds good
<forumsmatthew> I can recall a certain ex-staff member that would not have been nominated, nor passed, when he left the staff, but who has certainly shown over time that he has earned the title
<ubuntugeek> I have to run, but you all have my support in whatever is decided.
<compiledkernel> forumsmatthew, have to aggree with you there
<forumsmatthew> I don't know that I want to state with finality that there will only be one chance to be voted on ever
<compiledkernel> more than one such individual that comes to mind
<jdong> SD-Plissken: if they do not receive majority approval, that is the case
<SD-Plissken> very well jdong
<forumsmatthew> let's say, that would be the trend, but not the absolute, final statement
<KiwiNZ> I think its fair to say though that the forum council must always be open to revisit any situation
<jdong> but as forumsmatthew said, I wouldn't say it's set in stone
<jdong> KiwiNZ: thanks ; that's better than I worded it
<forumsmatthew> don't hit <ctrl> a while using xchat
<MikeB-> anything else, or should we vote?
<forumsmatthew> it closes the window
<MikeB-> forumsmatthew, it is a feature, not a bug
<MikeB-> :)
<forumsmatthew> lol
<jdong> forumsmatthew: same with ctrl+w :)
<forumsmatthew> eek...another on my list of things to avoid
<jdong> yeah
<jdong> delete word... oh crap.
<jdong> :D
<forumsmatthew> I'm +1 on staff emeritus
<jdong> i am, too
<MikeB-> +1 here
<KiwiNZ> yep from me
<Vorian> great!
* darkmatter +1's.. nothin better to do ;)
<forumsmatthew> okay. I'll add the list of current title holders in the FAQ
<forumsmatthew> darkmatter, lol
<Vorian> any other items to discuss that are not on the agenda?
<KiwiNZ> brb phone grrrrrrrrr
<MikeB-> none, unless there is any public comments
<forumsmatthew> I think Vorian needs to grow his hair back out and dye it red again
<forumsmatthew> that was hot
<Vorian> I'm on it forumsmatthew
<jdong> That's what she said!
<Vorian> :)
<jdong> I might hold a that's what she said record across #ubuntu*
<KiwiNZ> back
<ronnietucker> what happened to the tea? Wasn't someone making tea?  ;)
<Vorian> how about deciding on a date/time for the next meeting?
<MikeB-> how is this time from everyone?
<jdong> good
<KiwiNZ> I asked my EA for coffee
<jdong> my schedule is uber-flexible now
<Vorian> MikeB-, !worksforme
<forumsmatthew> FYI, I may not be able to make the meeting in August regardless of when it happens
<jdong> yay for having mako as a boss :)
<forumsmatthew> in general this time is okay for me
<MikeB-> jdong, mako is your boss, cool
<forumsmatthew> jdong, sweet
<jdong> MikeB-: yeah, it's sweet :D
<Vorian> showoff
* Vorian hides
<jdong> Vorian: lol
<KiwiNZ> I'll try to be here , someone has to work for a living I guess
<MikeB-> Aug 13 or 20 at 22:00?
<Vorian> So that would be Aug 20th @ 2200 UTC?
<Vorian> oops
<KiwiNZ> thats 10am my time
<MikeB-> what time would work better for you kiwi?
<KiwiNZ> that should be OK
<KiwiNZ> I dont have my agenda open but I sent a email to EA to book me
<MikeB-> ok AUG 20 at 22:00 sounds like a plan
<Vorian> nice
<KiwiNZ> cool tat ta for now
<forumsmatthew> all right
<forumsmatthew> see you gals and gents around
<MikeB-> later all, that for coming
<MikeB-> thanks for coming
<jdong> alright, next time :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<cynics> @schedule shanghai
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 17 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 18 Jul 03:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 04:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 23:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<jdong> //etc/init.d/nmapper stop
* jdong grunts
<nealmcb> schedule US/Mountain
<nealmcb> !schedule US/Mountain
<nealmcb> @schedule paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 17 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
<nealmcb> @schedule denver
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 17 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 13:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 14:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 09:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu
<nealmcb> @schedule US/Mountain
<ubotu> Schedule for US/Mountain: 17 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 13:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 14:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 09:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu
<aquo> @schedule Berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 17 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
<greg_g> @schedule Detroit
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 17 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu
<soren> @schedule Copenhagen
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 17 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu
<dendrobates> @schedule New York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 17 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 17 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<zul> hi
<dendrobates> hi
<ScottK> Hello.
<mathiaz> hi all
<ScottK> mathiaz: Did you see my last comment on the Dapper mysql deadlock bug?
<lionel> Hi all
<mathiaz> ScottK: yes.
<soren> o/
<soren> Hi, all.
* ScottK is curious if you're going to do the fix for that one?
<dendrobates> hey soren.
<ScottK> Hi soren.
<fernando> hi all
<ScottK> mathiaz: Cool.
<nealmcb> howdy folks
<mathiaz> ScottK: we may update mysql-4.1 to the latest version of the serie
<ScottK> Ah.
<dendrobates> Ok lets get started.
<soren> Hi, kees.
<mathiaz> ScottK: we can discuss that after the meeting
<ScottK> Sure
<dendrobates> Welcome to the first public server team meeting
<keescook> hiya folks.  :)
<soren> \o/
<mathiaz> keescook: hiya
<nealmcb> agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<dendrobates> Lets start with introductions, since we are so new.
<dendrobates> nealmcb: Thanks
<dendrobates> I am Rick Clark the Technical lead of the Ubuntu server team.
<dendrobates> For gutsy I am focused on ldap authentication.
<dendrobates> now everybody else.
<soren> I'm Soren Hansen (the hacker formerly known as shawarma), I've been around the Ubuntu community for a couple of years now and I'm on the server team working for Canonical.
<soren> My primary focus for this release is eBox.
<dendrobates> Also state your area of interest in Ubuntu server.
<soren> I want to make it cool.
<miles> haha
<soren> :p
<mathiaz> I'm Mathias Gug and I'm an Ubuntu Server developer
<nealmcb> I'm Neal McBurnett, running simple ubuntu servers for a number of years, active with the Colorado loco team and looking for ways to get involved in improving especially authentication/authorization support for ubuntu server.  how can we help people test this?  need some environments to test against
<keescook> I'm Kees Cook, currently focused on Ubuntu security, and somewhat lurking in the server team until I have more spare cycles to contribute more significantly.  I did the initial packaging of AppArmor, and work on the kernel integration bits.
<mathiaz> For gutsy, I'll focus on AppArmor integration.
<Mithrandir> I'm Tollef Fog Heen, technical lead for Ubuntu mobile, not really here, but watching a bit. My main interest in ubuntu server is as a sysadmin for a bunch of servers I help maintain.
<miles> my name is miles, im just a young kid but i do sysadmin and java development at my job...i am currently running an ubuntu-server and want to be involved in the community
<jdstrand> I am Jamie Strandboge, ubuntu advocate with an interest in ubuntu server and open source server technologies in general
<stephanbuys> Stephan Buys here, architect for Impi Linux, interested in bringing Ubuntu into government and business in South Africa. Focusing on what perceive to be the missing pieces to make Ubuntu "enterprise ready"
<nealmcb> I'm also wondering if ubuntu or launchpad or canonical has any "enterprise" ldap/kerberos/whatever infrastructure (for doing builds, etc?) that we could put up test apps on and lure testers with, or any other way for folks who don't run servers to do client testing
<ScottK> I'm Scott Kitterman.  I'm a MOTU and primarily interested in Postfix and the packages associated with it.  I'm also a member of ubuntu-backporters (the ones that ack backports requests to the archive admins).  My current focus is on getting the clamav 0.9x series into Dapper (it has a depressing number of rdepends).  I don't have any Gutsy server goals at the moment.  On the server end, I'm focused on getting stuff I did in Feisty into Debian.
<dendrobates> Anyone else? we will wait a couple minutes for more introductions.
<sommer> I'm Adam Sommer.  I'm a Linux Sysadmin looking to become a Ubuntu-dev/MOTU and currently helping ScottkK with clamav.
* miles wonders what MOTU means?
<Meyvn> I'm Arjen Logghe, somewhat of an Ubuntu newbie and recently started to delve into programming (C++/C#) and I'm here to eavesdrop into this conversation.
<fernando> I'm Fernando Ribeiro, i'm justing a sysadmin, a ubuntu enthusiast. I'm focused on ldap integration and replication.
<lionel> I'm Lionel Porcheron. I'm a MOTU and work everyday as a sysadmin. Ubuntu server is my primary server platform. I just want to make it rocks
<Knightlust> I'm Dax Solomon Umaming, Xubuntu Advocate and System Administrator for a school.
<Mithrandir> miles: master of the universe, the group responsible for maintaining the packages in Universe.
<soren> miles: A MOTU is a "Master of the Universe". It's the team of developers that manage the universe component of Ubuntu.
<miles> thanks
<aquo> Hi, I'm Steffen Bauch, and just watching for connections of Ubuntu Server and NetworkManager.
<dendrobates> Welcome everyone.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: You had the first agenda item.
<mathiaz> yes - I read the last UWN and there is section about the Scribus team
<mathiaz> in the community spotlight. So it may be a good idea to do the same thing for the Server Team.
<dendrobates> Since building our community is very important right now, I think it is a good idea.
<mathiaz> well - we could wait a little bit
<mathiaz> we could focus on absorbing the first round of applicant
<beuno> if you need/want to get the server team highlighted in UWN, just drop me a line with what you want it to say  :D
<mathiaz> uwn has a wider audiance
<mathiaz> beuno: what's the audience of uwn ?
<beuno> mathiaz: the Ubuntu Community in general
<mathiaz> because for now we're looking to get more developper
<beuno> and it goes a bit beyond, as it get reproduced in several Linux sites
<ScottK> It also gets mentioned in Linux Weekly News.
<beuno> mathiaz: UWN won't hurt, and posting in the planet won't either  :D
<dendrobates> Nick Ali from UWN also mentioned that they could summarize our meeting in UWN if we liked as well.
<mathiaz> Do we plan to send notes from the meeting ?
<mathiaz> to ubuntu-server ? like MOTU does
<dendrobates> I think that is an open question.
<mathiaz> ok - to come back to UWN
<mathiaz> should we send a strip down version of the Server Team annoucment ?
<soren> I think we should send the minutes to the mailing list. If for no other reason, then to remind ourselves what we talked about and decided.
<soren> mathiaz: Agreed.
<beuno> mathiaz: you will get the best response if you can state clearly and specifically what you need, and how people can contact you
<dendrobates> mathiaz: yes.
<mathiaz> beuno: how many lines ?
<beuno> mathiaz: 2 paragraphs seem fine, it really depends on the team
<mathiaz> beuno: ok.
<beuno> just not too many "filler" text
<beuno> as straight to the point as possible
<mathiaz> I'll work on that
<beuno> and just sent it over to me: beuno@ubuntu.com
<mathiaz> beuno: ok.
<beuno> and contact me in the future for anything else you want features in UWN  :D
<dendrobates> What do we think about meeting summaries?
<dendrobates> I would be a little sparse at this point.
<dendrobates> but as the team picks up, it might be nice.
<mathiaz> I think it would be a good idea for people that are not able to attend the meeting
<soren> If we make any decisions during this meeting, I think said decisions should be echoed on the ml.
<mathiaz> ok. I'll send the notes to the ml.
<ScottK> Definitely at least decisions need to get to the ML.
<soren> mathiaz: Cool.
<dendrobates> We could also put transcripts on the wiki
<mathiaz> it'S a bit too much I think. We should just link to where the channel is logged.
<soren> dendrobates: The channel is logged, so that seems a bit redundant.
<aquo> just publish pointers to the log
<dendrobates> soren: then we could link to where it is logged.
<mathiaz> sounds good to me - I'll update the wiki pages.
<soren> dendrobates: Sure.
<dendrobates> ok lets move on to the roadmap.
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<dendrobates> Lets start with bug triage.
<dendrobates> Anyone have anything to new report to the team?
<nealmcb> mathiaz: Thanks for all the roadmap updates!  It really gives me ideas about what is active and what is history (like so many of the server-related specs....)
<mathiaz> nealmcb: you're welcome. We'll try to keep the specs later.
<soren> dendrobates: We need a firm plan on how to get to the bottom of the bug lists.
<mathiaz> for now we're just trying to focus on specific tasks, so that we can get something done for gutsy.
<soren> dendrobates: All the new stuff that comes in is no problem, I think. The problem is the existing backlog.
<mathiaz> soren: correct. That's why I suggest we try to tackle bugs per package basis.
<soren> mathiaz: Dividing them among us? That could work.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: so you are suggesting we start with mysql, right?
* ScottK already keeps Postfix bugs triaged.
<mathiaz> yes
<mathiaz> we have to start somewhere.
<dendrobates> agreed.
<stephanbuys> is the aim to fix bugs for gutsy?
<mathiaz> and lets try to get all the bugs in triagged state
<soren> mathiaz: "yes" what? Yes, we divide them among us, or yes, we take one package at a time?
<mathiaz> soren: one package at a time
<mathiaz> stephanbuys: try to get them to triagged
<soren> mathiaz: Sounds sane.
<nealmcb> for how long?
<mathiaz> stephanbuys: which means we had a look at it and then we can start fixing them
<mathiaz> nealmcb: as long as it takes
<mathiaz> nealmcb: it doesn't mean that we're not fixing it.
<dendrobates> What do you think about scheduling a bug day for each package.
<mathiaz> anyone can work on fixing bug, that are triagged or not.
* ScottK thinks bug days should be about fixing, not just triaging.
<stephanbuys> mathiaz, so its fair to say there is no slant towards gutsy when it comes to bugs (dapper LTS gets equal treatment?)
<mathiaz> dendrobates: I'd rather have a suggested line
* ScottK really appreciated soren's help during that server bug day.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: I mean a suggested list packages
<mathiaz> the roadmap is to give pointer for new contributors.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: like the last bug day?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: yes. instead it's not a day but more a 2 week plan.
<soren> stephanbuys: Gutsy is the current development focus. Dapper only gets high priority bug fixes and security fixes.
<mathiaz> So let's try to get all mysql bugs reviewed and triagged by the next 2 weeks
<ScottK> There is dapper-backports for new features, but not for bug fixing.
<dendrobates> soren: we should try your idea, but if we don't get community involvement, be prepared to rethink it.
<nealmcb> there are a lot of packages, one at a time might mean missing important ones, and not everyone can help with each packages.   anyone have a sequence of packages in mind?
<soren> dendrobates: Which idea was that?
<dendrobates> I mean mathiaz;
<mathiaz> nealmcb: after mysql, I thought about doing samba.
<soren> dendrobates: Ah, I see.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: ok - no problem. we'll see how it works.
<nealmcb> is there a summary anywhere of which server packages have the most outstanding and/or untriaged bugs?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: we need to explain what to do more on the roadmap, maybe boint to some documentation.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: yes - I'll update the wiki pages Roadmap and Knowledge.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: It's still a work in progress.
<dendrobates> But you've done a great job on them.
<aquo> which are the most annoying untriaged bugs for mysql?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/
<mathiaz> aquo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-dfsg-5.0
<mathiaz> aquo: lists the bugs related to mysql - we target the one in New - Undecided states.
<dendrobates> can we move to packaging?
<mathiaz> aquo: the goal is to move to a triagged/confirmed state
<aquo> mathiaz: yes, i know, but are there bug with special importance?
<soren> aquo: If we knew, they would have been triaged already.
<aquo> k
<soren> aquo: The point of traiging is to look at the bug, determine if it's bogus or not, and to assign an importance to it.
<aquo> soren: i know, my question is if the fact that they are untriaged a hint for there unimportance is
<mathiaz> aquo: no
<aquo> if they would be important, somebody would have triaged them already?
<soren> aquo: That doesn't make sense. If you knew if it was important or not, you would by definition have triaged it.
<mathiaz> aquo: new, undecided means nobody has looked at the bug
<aquo> k, just go on
<soren> triaging means figuring out how important it is.
<aquo> i know
<dendrobates> Ok on to packaging
<Meyvn> unfortunately i have to leave, good luck all
<dendrobates> Meyvn: thanks for stopping by.
<soren> Meyvn: thanks for your time.
<dendrobates> it looks like FernandoRibeiroSilva has assigned himself to add watch files to the packages.
<mathiaz> fernando: thanks for taking this.
<dendrobates> Thank you for that.
<dendrobates> fernando: do you need any help?  have you had a chance to start?
<fernando> I'm glat could help you.
<fernando> no help this first time
<lionel> that means we are going to diverge from Debian for this package? With for example newer upstream release (as we do for GNOME for example)
<mathiaz> lionel: which package ?
<lionel> I meant packages
<lionel> for those we add watch files
<mathiaz> lionel: watch files are just a way to track upstream version.
<keescook> I think the goal would be to send the watch files upstream too.
<soren> lionel: I hope we can cooperate with Debian to get newer stuff into Debian and then let it trickle into Ubuntu, but we're not going to block on Debian if there's shiny new stuff we want.
<mathiaz> lionel: debian can track it - but we're also interested in tracking them
<mathiaz> keescook: definetly.
<mathiaz> I'm sure that Debian would be interested into that also.
<lionel> Ok, ok, it was to get things clear :) Thanks :)
<fernando> i can to send the watch updates to debian too
<mathiaz> keescook: would this help from a security perspective ?
<keescook> mathiaz: I might, but it would still require people examine release notes for things that are not already listed in CVe
<mathiaz> fernando: I've added this point to the roadmap. so if you need help to get started, you can contact me.
<mathiaz> keescook: ok.
<fernando> mathiaz, great
<dendrobates> Ok on to testing.
<jdstrand> is the goal of adding the watch file to watch debian, upstream, or both?
<mathiaz> the idea behind this, is to be able to track upstream relases centrally - without being subscribed to thousand of mailing lists
<mathiaz> jdstrand: upstream only.
<jdstrand> mathiaz, ah-- makes more sense now
<mathiaz> jdstrand: we get debian updates via merges
<mathiaz> jdstrand: when the merge window is opened.
<jdstrand> mathiaz, right-- so this is to help ubuntu in general, and feed what we know back to debian so they can do with it what they want
<dendrobates> I have not added openldap to the apparmor test plan yet.  Plan to do it this week.  We will than need testers.
<mathiaz> yop
<nealmcb> on the testing front, I've posted an idea about an enterprise testbed.  there are so many configurations to test against
<mathiaz> AppArmor should be in main soon
<mathiaz> so we need to test it more.
<nealmcb> e.g. in the authentication area - ldap/kerberos/ad etc
<dendrobates> nealmcb: you are right, we are going to need community support to test those configurations.
<nealmcb> if there are any folks out there with guest accounts to test against that would be great
<nealmcb> ideally there would be places stable and public enough that we could put them in documentation.  "log in via kerberos as guest/guest" etc....
<sommer> is there a place where configurations that need testing are posted?
<dendrobates> currently only apparmor has a test plan.
<aquo> nealmcb: hacker-hotspot
<dendrobates> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppArmorGutsy#testplan
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Server
<mathiaz> ^^ this where we should put our testing plans
<mathiaz> as discussed with heno.
<nealmcb> are there shared build machines available to ubuntu developers?  if so how do people log in?
<sommer> cool...I'm very willing to help in testing.
<soren> nealmcb: We don't. We just upload to them via ftp.
<dendrobates> mathiaz:  will you be moving the apparmor plan to the new page?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: yes.
<nealmcb> aquo: yes indeed - and a good way to discover DOS bugs - might need to reinstall periodically like the folks that put up multiple CMS installations for worldwide login and experimentation and comparison
<dendrobates> I wil work on a ldap-auth-client paln as well.
<soren> nealmcb: Anonymous ftp, that is. The uploads are signed.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: we may start using the isotracker.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: henrik wants to turn the isotracker tester in a more general testing platform.
<aquo> nealmcb: could be also a place to attack other machines from.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: on our side, it means we have to write test plans
<mathiaz> dendrobates: and we aggreed to put our test plan in the wiki.
<nealmcb> aquo: only if you give them too many permissions.  even a "hello guest - you have authenticated" would be handy for some setups
<mathiaz> dendrobates: so that they can be linked from isotracker later.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: I remember.
<aquo> nealmcb: so you don't need real users, but just sophisticated test-scripts.
<nealmcb> aquo: but I know it can be a hassle - may need to be limited to trusted folks - just trying to figure out how to test against real-world situations
<aquo> qemu + some scripts ...
<aquo> this is possible even with multiple instances of qemu, client + server.
<dendrobates> can we skip right to devlopment, I have a hard stop coming up.
<soren> dendrobates: Me too.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: np.
<dendrobates> Soren: you first.
<mathiaz> there is so much in the documentor section for now.
<dendrobates> :)
<soren> dendrobates: Huh?
<stephanbuys> dendrobates, my 2cents and it follows on what came before, there is a need for more virtualization on the roadmap. any plans for Xen?
<nealmcb> aquo: for testing authn, that's right.  for testing authorization, providing some sort of access to protected resources by relying parties would be necessary, and there can also be user interface testing
<zul> stephanbuys: we already have xen-3.1
<soren> ah.
<soren> Yes, as I mentioned, I'm working on this eBox platform.
<stephanbuys> zul, my bad
<soren> http://www.ebox-platform.com
<soren> Well, working on integrating it into Ubuntu.
<soren> I'd like it if a few people would be kind enough to volunteer a machine they don't particularly care for for testing it.
<nealmcb> soren: amazon's ec2 can be good for that, or xen
<dendrobates> I'll continue testing.
<soren> It's a systems management framework and - surprisingly - it manages your system, which means it may or may not mangle your configuration files. In some cases, that's what you want, in some cases not.
<mathiaz> soren: do you have any specific things to test ?
<soren> In the cases where it's not what you want, I want to be absolutely sure it handles things elegantly.
<soren> mathiaz: I'm sort of waiting on pitti to ack a few more packages before it starts getting interesting.
<aquo> Is ebox free software?
<soren> aquo: Of course.
<soren> So far, there's only ebox,  libebox, and ebox-objects.
<mathiaz> soren: ok. Then we can add a new point in the Testing section.
<soren> So far, they really don't do anything, but if people want to instal them and see if they work at all or break miserably, that would be great.
<soren> Wait a few hours, though. :) There's one more thing I want to tweak.
<aquo> soren: which dependencies has ebox?
<dendrobates> soren: done?
<mathiaz> soren: what about sending an email to ubuntu-serve when you're ready for more widespread testing ?
<soren> dendrobates: Yes.
<soren> mathiaz: I will.
<dendrobates> Ok, Mathiaz, you want to go next?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: ok. For AppArmor, it's almost in main
<mathiaz> the plan is to split the profiles into universe
<mathiaz> and get the infrastructure bits in main as soon as possible.
<mathiaz> so I hope I'll get Apparmor into main after tribe-3
<mathiaz> as the archive is frozen for now.
<aquo> tribe3 is friday? thursday?
<mathiaz> but everything is there and I need more testing.
<mathiaz> aquo: thursday
<soren> aquo: thursday
<aquo> k
<mathiaz> there is a testplan.
<soren> aquo: As a general rule, tribe releases are on Thursdays.
<mathiaz> and I'm looking for testing with named
<mathiaz> mysql and samba.
<aquo> soren: to not hazzle the mirror admins on friday?
<mathiaz> so if you can provide some help, it's time to join the effort.
<soren> aquo: So we have an extra day to take care of *very* urgent stuff before the weekend.
<aquo> k
<mathiaz> dendrobates: that's all.
<dendrobates> for ldap-auth-client:  I sent an email to the ubuntu-directory mailing list and have received an incredible response.  I have heard from both redhad and Impi Linux (thanks Stephan), about collaboration.  The meta package is uploaded, but for some reason not yet available.  I will be creating a wiki with specific tasks that folks can help with.
<dendrobates> I am still tuning the spec, to try to lessen the confusion I seemed to be creating about my purpose.
<dendrobates> The work has started on libpam-ldap and libnns-ldap as well.
<jdstrand> dendrobates: I just subscribed to ubuntu-directory (not aware of it), so will look through it.  As discussed #ubuntu-server, I have started the auth-client-config script for debconf to call to update nsswitch.conf and pam
<jdstrand> dendrobates: should have something for you to play with soon
<dendrobates> stephanbuys created a new spec for an app that would configuring /etc/pam.d/*
<jdstrand> dendrobates: where is that spec?
<dendrobates> that might be rolled into my spec if it looks like it can be finished in time.
<dendrobates> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LDAPAuthentication
<ScottK> soren: (sorry for the lag - this relates to ebox) - I think you would be intersted in this thread: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2007-July/001802.html
<dendrobates> that is all from
<dendrobates> me
<dendrobates> is there any other business?
<ScottK> Question...
<dendrobates> ok
<ScottK> Is there a process for deciding which packages the server-team is going to care about?
<ScottK> Is it limited to Main?
<ScottK> OK, that was two...
<soren> ScottK: "it"?
<mathiaz> ScottK: for now yes.
<soren> ScottK: Ah.
<ScottK> it == packages server-team cares about.
<mathiaz> ScottK: limited to main.
<ScottK> OK
<soren> Any particular reason?
<ScottK> Trying to understand the scope of the team.
<mathiaz> for now we're bug contact for a couple of packages.
<soren> The server team could easily handle relevant universe packages as well.
<ScottK> There is a lot of stuff (e.g. spamassassin, clamsmtp, clamav) in Universe that's very commonly used on mail servers.
<mathiaz> once we've get some controlled on the bugs for the packages, we can think about adding other ones.
<dendrobates> I imagine that as the team grows, our ability to handle more packages will as well.
<dendrobates> Right now, we have all we can handle.
<ScottK> OK
<mathiaz> dendrobates: I aggree with you.
<sommer> is the server-team open to all or do you need to be a dev?
<dendrobates> open to all.
<nealmcb> so is the list at https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+packagebugs complete?
<mathiaz> sommer: to all.
<mathiaz> nealmcb: yes.
<sommer> cool...I'll sign up.
<dendrobates> I need to scoot.
<nealmcb> I'm glad to see all the recent activity and organization here - thanks folks
<dendrobates> Thank you for coming everyone.
<mathiaz> sommer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved#becomemember
<mathiaz> the next meeting will be in two weeks.
<dendrobates> We hope to see all of you at our next meeting in two weeks.
<mathiaz> same time same place
<dendrobates> same channel
<dendrobates> bye.
<mathiaz> thanks - bye.
<keescook> cya
<sommer> mathiaz: thanks for the link.  Later all.
<ScottK> mathiaz: You want to talk some more about the mysql thing now?
<aquo> nealmcb: Can you imaging test plans that are not automatic testable?
<mathiaz> ScottK: later - I'm off for lunch.
<ScottK> OK.  Later.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<mr_pouit> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 17 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 18 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 22:00: Xubuntu Developers
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-18
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<jsgotangco> j #morphlabs m0rphl4bs
<jsgotangco> haha
<Meyvn> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 18 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 20:00: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 19 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Jul 01:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jul 06:00: Xubuntu Developers | 27 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<pyros_pyrotica> schedule new york
<pyros_pyrotica> @schedule new york
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 19 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<pjotter> hello
<pyros_pyrotica> 'llo
<pjotter> hi
<pjotter> I was actually looking for someone called fabbione?
<pjotter> I have a small question I wanted to ask about this irc-server
<ompaul> pjotter, if you want to ask about the irc server #freenode would be the best place to ask
<pjotter> it's about the logging. I stumbled upon a site where all the logs of this irc chat are stored
<pjotter> I was wondering if you know that these logs are publicly available and are being indexed by search engines.
<mc44> pjotter: yes, thats the point
<pjotter> why?
<mc44> so that they are publically avaliable... ?
<ianmcorvidae> Accountability, dear; someone can actually go check on decisions made.
<ianmcorvidae> This is a meeting channel.
<pjotter> yes,ok.. but why are all user-ID's stored along with the ip's?
<pjotter> I was a bit surprised to see my actualloginname I use on the computer in this publicly available log
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-19
<pjotter> I spoke to some other people and they where a bit surprised also
<pyros_pyrotica> that's thanks to your irc client, not the server or the logging.
<pjotter> alright
<ianmcorvidae> pjotter: Where are these logs, by the way. I'd like to know what I'm discussing :)
<pjotter> It was just something I was wondering about.
<pjotter> just a moment
<mc44> !logs | ianmcorvidae
<ubotu> ianmcorvidae: Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<ianmcorvidae> Ah, thanks.
<pjotter> yep that's the one :)
<ianmcorvidae> pjotter: You might also look into getting a cloak for your IP
<pjotter> well,Iwouldn;t go that for
<pjotter> far
<pjotter> :)
<ianmcorvidae> Well, it's pretty easy.
<ianmcorvidae> And a good idea, hehe.
<ianmcorvidae> http://www.pthree.org/2007/07/15/securing-your-connection-on-freenode/
<ianmcorvidae> Good article on securing yourself on freenode :)
<pjotter> You mean by using a proxy or something (Idon't know much about cloaking and stuff)
<ianmcorvidae> Oh, no.
<ianmcorvidae> Freenode does it for you :)
<ianmcorvidae> Do a whois on me, you'll see it
<ianmcorvidae> ( in other words: /whois ianmcorvidae )
<ianmcorvidae> That unaffiliated/ianmcorvidae is the cloak
<ianmcorvidae> It hides the part that shows where I connect from (hostname and IP, in other words)
<ianmcorvidae> Ubuntu members get cloaks automatically that indicate they are ubuntu members
<ianmcorvidae> But an unaffiliated cloak is pretty easy to get; you just need to register your nick and an alternate, attach an email (which an be hidden), and then ask a freenode staffer to turn it on for you.
<pjotter> ah ok
<pjotter> well that sounds like too uch hassle for me.It's not really a big deal or something
<ianmcorvidae> That article I linked has an outline of the whole affair, as well as a link to the 'official' freenode doc on it.
<ianmcorvidae> Heh, ok.
<ianmcorvidae> But anyway, that's the way to hide your IP from being in those logs :)
<pjotter> I was just surprised to see that info come up after a simple search on my ip
<ianmcorvidae> Hehe, yep.
<pjotter> alright, I'm off to bed. Thanks for the help and info. I'll think about the cloak thing.
<pjotter> :)
<pjotter> bye!
<ianmcorvidae> Later, pjotter.
<ianmcorvidae> Enjoy :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team
<dholbach> good morning
<johnc4510> beuno: good evening
<johnc4510> :)
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 20 Jul 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Jul 01:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jul 06:00: Xubuntu Developers | 27 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Jul 22:00: MOTU Team
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 19 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Jul 14:00: MOTU Team
<dendrobates> @schedule New York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 19 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Jul 08:00: MOTU Team
<calc> if i don't respond during the meeting my network may have died again, there have been thunderstorms all morning here :\
<calc> i'm not sure if it was the storms or just gutsy acting up or a combination of the two
<dendrobates> Same here I'm afraid.  So far so good with the old 'dsl, though
<calc> i rebooted my system and it hasn't dropped since so it may have just been gutsy
<calc> what is the proper syntax with tr to translate ~ to - ?
<calc> i thought it was tr [~]  [-]  but that doesn't seem to work
<calc> it changes the ~ into a \ instead (wtf?)
<calc> ah i have to do [~]  [\\-] 
<Mithrandir> why not just tr \~ - ?
<Meyvn> why would you need to escape those characters?
<Mithrandir> because if you don't escape ~ it expands into $HOME
<fabb_laptop> evening
<kylem> herro.
<fabb_laptop> #include <smoke_premeeting>
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team
<evand> hello all
<cjwatson> good evening
<cjwatson> #include <mdz-for-the-day>, I suppose
* pitti waves
<cjwatson> mdz is in Oregon and the rest of the world is at GUADEC, near enough
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: I loved how you filled in my activity report for me. ;-)
<fabb_laptop> this laptop sucks
<dholbach> hello everybody
<tkamppeter> hi
<dendrobates> hey all
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: I assumed nobody at GUADEC would be sending reports
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: I got home yesterday, but since I spent that day travelling, it's much appreciated.  I'm going to send one during the meeting, I think.
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: ah, that I didn't know
* bdmurray waves
* heno waves
<cjwatson> bryce,doko,pkl_,rtg_: ping (jsut checking)
<cjwatson> just
<rtg_> pong
<bryce> heya
<doko> pong
<pkl_> ping
<cjwatson> Riddell is excused
<pkl_> opps, pong
<soren> preemptive pong
* kwwii is here, btw
<asac> hi all
<fabb_laptop> cjwatson: i am here too as we agreed (modulo laptop crashing)
<cjwatson> keescook: ping?
<keescook> pong
<amitk_> woof
<cjwatson> ok, just missing Adilson now, so I guess we'll start
<cjwatson> no non-regular business for today, unless there are any late additions to the agenda?
* agoliveira waves all
<cjwatson> I hope everyone had an enjoyable/productive sprint and got home safely
<pitti> yeah, it was great to see the office \o/
* agoliveira agrees
<keescook> such a view :)
<cjwatson> or to your next port of call for those who stopped by GUADEC ;-)
<fabb_laptop> 11 hours door to door was safe.. but .. looooooooong
<dholbach> I had a great time too :-)
<agoliveira> fabb_laptop: Only 11 hours? Lucky one...
<BenC> I liked the pubs
<fabb_laptop> agoliveira: for a 2 hours flight... it?s bad..
<agoliveira> fabb_laptop: Ooops :)
<cjwatson> I take it that's no further agenda items, then
<fabb_laptop> BenC: just that or the beer in the pubs? :)
<cjwatson> this is a general reminder that you have *four weeks* left to finish gutsy-targeted features
<BenC> fabbboth :)
<Meyvn> i'm just here to watch/listen/learn, that okay with you guys?
<cjwatson> please ask for help early rather than late if you think that's going to be a problem
<Mithrandir> Meyvn: yes
<cjwatson> Meyvn: sure
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: I need ten more people and a pony, but I suspect I should tell mdz that, not you.
<dholbach> it's not a real agenda item, but I'd like to thank everybody who was involved in reviewing patches for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews - it's been working out great and we had a lot of community contributed patches and uploads in the last few weeks
<soren> Mithrandir: *G*
<cjwatson> we don't have a lot of feature-rescuing resource this time round, largely due to projects like Mithrandir's ;-)
<dholbach> (of course a reminder to all of you who still have patches unreviewed in their inbox ;-))
<cjwatson> but something can probably be scrounged up if need be
<tkamppeter> I have bad news, unfortunately.
<kylem> we really should've gone to visit the pony when we were in london.
<cjwatson> dholbach: *blush*. We have a reviewers meeting at the end of this one.
<calc> btw i think that OOo 2.3 m221 is about to actually finish compiling the first time all the way through :)
<pitti> dholbach: if there was a way to get a list of outstanding things...
<calc> then i just need to update all the patches for ubuntu, etc, heh
<pitti> calc: yay!
<cjwatson> tkamppeter: oh?
<cjwatson> calc: excellent
<tkamppeter> It is about printerdrake.
<cjwatson> printerdrake is not on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy this time round
<tkamppeter>  found a volunteer some weeks ago, and today he told me that he has not enough time and gave up.
<dholbach> pitti: bugs assigned to yourself should be easy enough to 'filter out', especially bugs assigned to you with patches attached?
<cjwatson> it's a target of opportunity, but if it doesn't work out, it's not a blocker for gutsy
<cjwatson> sorry to hear that the volunteer dropped out though
<pitti> dholbach: ah, 'patches attached' is good
<fabb_laptop> just a quick reminder that i am going in holidays
<tkamppeter> Will gutsy continue with the gnome-cups-manager then?
* dholbach high-fives pitti
<calc> so hopefully i'll have it in gutsy by end of next week, this weekend is pretty busy for me, being at the Four Seasons, heh
<fabb_laptop> dholbach: if i have anything to sponsor, it might need to be reassigned
<pitti> dholbach: you cannot search for bugs assigned to you *and* subscribed to a team (at least I don't know how)
<dholbach> fabb_laptop: what do you mean?
<dholbach> pitti: bugs to you with patches attached - does that help?
<fabb_laptop> dholbach: i am going away in vacation for 3 weeks
<amitk_> cjwatson: I too haven't had a whole lot of time to work on the power management spec for gutsy
<fabb_laptop> dholbach: if you reassinged bugs to sponsor, it?s better to have them reassigned to somebody else
<dholbach> fabb_laptop: alright
<dholbach> fabb_laptop: thanks
<fabb_laptop> dholbach: i can only see one.. #71504.. if i don?t get around it tomorrow, i will let you know
<pitti> and, mind you, that we need to do dapper.2, too
<pitti> that'll take quite a lot of resources
<cjwatson> I hate all IRC clients
<evand> screen + irssi
<evand> never fails
<kwwii> network fall down, go boom
<bdmurray> evand: but is pwned by small animals right?
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: pasted it on other ircnet since you didn't ping out there.
<Mithrandir> evand: doesn't help when your DSL is the limiting factor.
<dholbach> pitti: I'll file a bug on launchpad:   https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-main-sponsors/+bugs?field.assignee=pitti    is the same as     https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-main-sponsors/+bugs
<soren> tkamppeter: What are the alternatives? system-config-printer?
<evand> indeed on both
<cjwatson> evand: this IS screen+irssi
<evand> ah, well then
<kylem> cjwatson, amnesiac?
<cjwatson> meh *shrug*
<tkamppeter> soren, perhaps, at least it is maintained. Perhaps I should sooner or later contribute concepts of printerdrake into it.
<cjwatson> amitk_: power management is basically there for the benefit of mobile, although obviously the more that gets done the better ... I suspect it is ongoing
<soren> tkamppeter: What's the difficulty with printerdrake anyway?
<amitk_> UME part is going ok
<cjwatson> amitk_: if you're short of time, the first thing to do is probably to try to set priorities
<tkamppeter> One thing I already did is to extract the fuzzy-matching algorithm for printer makes and models of printerdrake into Foomatic. So one can use it from any program by calling a command line tool.
<amitk_> but the generic Gutsy part is lagging. Powertop profiling, bugfixes to apps, laptop-testing group revival are on TODO
<pitti> cjwatson: with our new task of dapper.2, we'll probably need to drop some specs anyway :/
<cjwatson> pitti: dapper.2 is deliberately after feature freeze for that reason
<tkamppeter> soren, the problem of printerdrake is that it uses a GUI based on a library from Mandriva and this library is not easy to port into a non-Mandriva distro (pitti has given up on that) and not of very high quality.
<cjwatson> I know some planning has to be done, but I was very much hoping it wouldn't have to interact much
<pitti> cjwatson: I'm afraid not, it should be released mid-August
<cjwatson> pitti: I'm sure it was end of August in order to be between FF and beta. That's certainly what I discussed with mdz originally.
<soren> tkamppeter: Ah, so we're yanking the good stuff out and shoving it into other components?
<soren> tkamppeter: Makes sense, I gues.
<amitk_> cjwatson: i guess prioritisation can happen offline with BenC and yourself
<pitti> right, but that means we cannot wait until mid-August to start working on it; there is a lot of bugs we are supposed to tackle
<tkamppeter> soren, probably this is the only solution if one does not find anyone to make a new GUI for printerdrake.
<pitti> anyway, now that tribe3 is over, I'll look into the list and sort/assign it
<soren> tkamppeter: Ah, *that* was what the volunteer was supposed to do?
<cjwatson> amitk_: the spec is not fully written, which makes it difficult to do that sort of prioritisation; that should be the first priority
<tkamppeter> Problem is that printerdrake is written in Perl and the Red Hat tool is written in Python. And I have never programmed in Python.
<soren> tkamppeter: Ah.. And gnome-cups-manager is C. :)
<dholbach> and c++ iirc
<soren> dholbach: I haven't noticed any.
* soren shrugs
<pitti> dholbach: no, it's gnome :)
<tkamppeter> Yes, the volunteer had to write a new GUI.
<cjwatson> 21:11 <amitk_> UME part is going ok
<cjwatson> 21:11 <cjwatson> amitk_: if you're short of time, the first thing to do is probably to try to set priorities
<pitti> well, g-c-m's GUI isn't too bad
<tkamppeter> For me it is easier to patch something into the gnome-cups-manager, as with C I am familiar.
<cjwatson> oops
<cjwatson> amitk_: anyway, thanks, made a note to look into that
<BenC> amitk_: we can discuss it more on tomorrow's call as well
<amitk_> ok
<soren> tkamppeter: If I were to decide, I'd prefer it going into system-config-printer. It seems to be less GNOME-centric than g-c-m, but g-c-m is surely an option, too.
<tkamppeter> I also prefer to continue with system-config-printer, because it is maintained upstream. The GNOME tool has no upstream maintainer any more.
<soren> tkamppeter: Oh dear.
<tkamppeter> Less GNOME-centric is also good, as we have also Xubuntu.
<soren> tkamppeter: Precisely. I belive they use s-c-p now.
<pitti> (which already uses s-c-p, and it's in main)
<soren> pitti: alright.
<cjwatson> soren: since it sounds like you're interested, can you follow this up with Till and figure out what practical actions we can take for gutsy, if any? :-)
<tkamppeter> So then we should also go for s-c-p in Ubuntu/Edubuntu, so that we do not need to maintain two tools.
<soren> tkamppeter: I agree. I've glanced at it once, and it looks sensible, too.
<soren> cjwatson: Um.. I guess I can squeeze it in somewhere.
<tkamppeter> soren, what do you mean with "squeeze it in", your work time or the space on the Ubuntu CDs?
<soren> tkamppeter: The former.
<cjwatson> ACTION: soren and tkamppeter to discuss feasibility of system-config-printer in Ubuntu and come up with a plan
<dendrobates> the sever group will be lucky to get it's own work done before the freeze.
<pitti> it basically has a similar problem: rather horrible UI
<cjwatson> dendrobates: low priority
<cjwatson> I mean this, for soren ...
<dendrobates> cjwatson: thanks
<cjwatson> ok, no actions from the previous meeting AFAIK
<cjwatson> release readiness update
<cjwatson> well done to Hobbsee and pitti on tribe-3
<soren> \o/
<pitti> thanks
<soren> Go Hobbsee and pitti!
* asac hugs hobbsee and pitti 
<pitti> cjwatson: I didn't prepare a special report
<dholbach> congratulations Hobbsee and pitti!
<cjwatson> there are a number of bugs which need to be followed up; I trust they're all suitably milestoned?
<pitti> but we have a lot of bugs
<pitti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone:Alist=471
<pitti> so please start fixing them early
<pitti> the most nasty one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/126964 ATM
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 126964 in linux-source-2.6.22 "gutsy livefs causes random hangs or modprobe crashes" [Critical,New] 
<kwwii> just so that everyone knows, there is a lot of talk about getting a desktop wallpaper for Gutsy after all
<pitti> which is not entirely understood yet, but ogra tracked it down pretty well already
<asac> oh ... so couldn't fix that for release ... damn
<pkl_> I'm currently looking into that bug also.
<cjwatson> kwwii: artwork landing for feature freeze? :-)
<kwwii> cjwatson: well, until now their is no official order for it, but I can imagine that that one piece will be coming in more towards the end of the deadlines if it all
<cjwatson> evand and I have made a little bit of headway on the actual *reason* for bug 122645 as well as a workarround, I think
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122645 in ubiquity "manual partitioning hangs indefinitely" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122645
<evand> indeed
<kwwii> cjwatson: no worries with other parts, they are all smaller updates
<cjwatson> no progress on the gfxboot thing yet :(
* evand kicks libgksu
<cjwatson> pitti: a good few of those are In Progress, which is encouraging
<cjwatson> but yes, if you get bored with your feature work and want a change, a bug is as good as a rest
<cjwatson> </lie>
* pitti wished he would actually have time for feature development :)
<soren> pitti: Come on, you love reviewing my stuff.
<cjwatson> pitti: says the man who's doing pretty well judging by https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy
<ajmitch> soren: it may require bribes
<cjwatson> ok, is there any other business for this meeting?
<pitti> I guess I'll just get off IRC for a day :)
<cjwatson> going once
<cjwatson> going twice
<cjwatson> all right, adjourned; those involved in code review please stay behind to go over the review list
<soren> See you tomorrow, people!
<bryce> cya everyone :-)
<kwwii> w00t, /me digz shrt m33tings
<mathiaz> thks. cya
<fabb_laptop> cya everybody
<dendrobates> byeee
<amitk> bye
<evand> bye
<heno> pitti: IRC-free days is actually a good suggestion (not all at once though :) )
* agoliveira says bye
<cjwatson> dholbach: over to you
<dholbach> alright... I'm quite happy with how https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews works out and the list looks quite good
<cjwatson> who have we got still here?
<dholbach> seb128 agreed to help with the assigning and triaging of them, so it should continue to work out when I'm at UbuntuLive and on holidays
<dholbach> of course, if somebody wants to help out with triaging and assigning them, that'd be very nice
<keescook> i'm still here.
* pitti raises hand
<asac> me
<mathiaz> me
<cjwatson> me
<dholbach> wow!
<dholbach> looks like a robust and solid process then!
<dholbach> thanks a lot :-)
<cjwatson> well, I'm here, but have sucked at reviewing to date
* ajmitch is lurking
<dholbach> ubuntu-universe-sponsors looks very good
<cjwatson> I think the only one currently assigned to me is the grub merge, which I can still do - just too hard to do at the sprint
<dholbach> ubuntu-main-sponsors should all be assigned if appropriate, so some people will need to look into their inboxes once they're back from conferences and all
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> also the initramfs-tools merge seemed quite big, which I assigned to BenC
<cjwatson> is there any view of the list that lets us see all the assignees on one page?
<dholbach> unfortunately not
<dholbach> I think we could get it generated using python-lp-bugs
<dholbach> I could set that up tomorrow
<BenC> initramfs-tools is tricky, but I'll get to it tomorrow
<cjwatson> dholbach: sounds good
<dholbach> excellent - I'll send out a mail about that
<cjwatson> dholbach: do you have any that you know are in need of an assignee at the moment?
<dholbach> no, I think I got all covered that look 'good enough'
<cjwatson> we'll save going down the full list until we have an easy view; I don't feel like opening 20-odd tabs
<cjwatson> pitti: I can take bug 80513 off you if you like, as I touch -meta often enough anyway
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 80513 in ubuntu-meta "ubuntu-meta does not include GPL in source tarball" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80513
<dholbach> I'll prod people about outstanding reviews in a week (so before I leave for holidays)
<pitti> cjwatson: oh, good
<dholbach> I feel the same way - I'll let you all know about an aggregated patch bugs list
<cjwatson> ok then
<cjwatson> ACTION: dholbach to prepare automatic list of review bugs with assignees
<cjwatson> if that's all, then I guess we're done here too
<dholbach> thanks a lot for helping out with that - I'm fairly confident, we'll cope quite well with incoming patches with that process soon enough
<pitti> yeah, biggest problem is still that it is utterly hard to get a personal todo list
<dholbach> pitti: let's see what solution I can come up with tomorrow - I'm happy to get your input on that
<cjwatson> turns out I only have six bugs assigned to me with patches attached, so that's OK, but I can't see everyone else's
<cjwatson> (easily)
<Meyvn> i have some questions when you're done
<dholbach> Meyvn: let's move to #ubuntu-devel, if you don't mind, so we can wrap up the meeting?
* calc is here too
<Meyvn> dholbach: sure
<dholbach> super
<pitti> NB that bugs like bug 126503 probably don't have a patch attached
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 126503 in laptop-detect "please sync laptop-detect 0.13.2 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126503
<dholbach> pitti: I'll make sure to aggregate them
* pitti hugs dholbach 
* dholbach hugs super-pitti
<dholbach> cjwatson: shall we adjourn?
<cjwatson> let's
<cjwatson> *gavel*
<dholbach> have a nice evening/day - see you tomorrow :)
<cjwatson> thanks for all your time this evening
<keescook> cool, cya everyone.  :)
<pitti> bye al
<asac> have a nice evening
<BenC> bye all!
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-07-20
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jul 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 26 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Jul 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 31 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<daniel_> #ubuntu-meeting
<daniel_> hello
<daniel_> someone here ?
<Hobbsee> yes, this is not the support channel
<daniel_> I know it
<daniel_> But thanks for the answer
<daniel_> Do you know a good chanel that I can receive some kernel help ??
<Hobbsee> $#kernel maybe
<stgraber> what kind of kernel help ?
<Hobbsee> ##kernel maybe
<daniel_> Well...I compiled the 2.6.21.1 version of the kernel on tne ubuntu
<daniel_> then when i booted on the new kernel by grub I receive a message that the /lib/modules/2.6.21.1 was not found
<stgraber> ok, you certainly forgot a "make modules modules_install", but anyway as it's not a bug related to the ubuntu kernel, I'd indeed suggest ##kernel
<daniel_> no, i didn't forget
<daniel_> the /lib/modules/2.6.21.1
<daniel_> is here
<daniel_> the directory exists
<daniel_> but I suspect that the kernel's booting on the wrong place
<stgraber> ok, perhaps a initrd issue, anyway you'd better as in ##kernel
<daniel_> ok, the initrd was created too
<daniel_> anyway thanks for the help !
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-14
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Jul 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jul 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<Calvin> could someone please tell me the advantages of using ubuntu
<Calvin> ?
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-15
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
 * persia peers about for a community council meeting
<leoquant> @schedule amsterdam
<ubottu> leoquant: Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: Current meeting: Community Council | 15 Jul 17:00:  Server Team | 16 Jul 19:00: QA Team | 17 Jul 00:00: Platform Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Desktop Team
<persia> leoquant: Should be CC meeting now: just quiet yet...
<leoquant> hmmm
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda doesn't appear to have been updated since the last meeting, which makes me wonder if the agenda is new or old.
 * leoquant is reading
<leoquant> not been updated i think
<persia> Maybe.  I don't see the discussion of the ratification of the Xubuntu strategy document in the logs from last meeting
<persia> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/01/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<charlie-tca> That is supposed to be today
<persia> Ought be now, no?
<leoquant> persia i have got the cc meeting here in about 4 hours
<charlie-tca> As far as I know...
<charlie-tca> leoquant: Not at 1100 UTC today?
<persia> Four hours?  Why does ubottu say it's now?  I thought it was 11:00 UTC on the 3rd Tuesday of the months.
<leoquant> ubottu: amsterdam 17.00 its now 13.15
<ubottu> leoquant: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<persia> leoquant:Amsterdam 17:00 is the server team meeting
<leoquant> your just a couple of diodes right ubottu?
<leoquant> ah, soory persia
<leoquant> r
<leoquant> :/
<persia> Hmm...  None of the members seems to be in-channel.  Any volunteers to contact them?
<persia> Right.  I'll send IRC pings then, in the absence of any other volunteer.
<Rafik> persia, in #ubuntu-devel (I saw sabdfl)
<persia> I've sent /queries to everyone on https://launchpad.net/~communitycouncil/+members : maybe they'll join
<leoquant> philwyett what does this mean?: [quote]Hi,The team wiki is organised under a system of categories i.e.CategoryArchiveCategoryDocumentationCategoryCanonicalEmployeeetc.; and of course...CategoryHomepageAs part of a wiki clean up, as many pages as possible in a first edit
<leoquant> pass are being placed in their appropriate categories. Yours as auser page falls into 'CategoryHomepage' and was added by myselftoo it.The changes being made are for the good of the wiki organisation and
<leoquant> to facilitate future addition and maintenance.[/quote]
<leoquant> is this a private action
<leoquant> is it a team Â¨wiki clean upÂ¨ action?
<philwyett> leoquant: A more appropriate place would be to ask this by answering my email. However, I am working to clean up the wiki as a volunteer and as a private action.
<leoquant> please sign your mail with pgp, and you get an email response. ok?
<philwyett> leoquant: Your email to me never specified that and is not really a good reason not to reply after I took the time to respond to an email that only had a question mark for a subject line.
<cody-somerville> So the community council meeting got cancelled for today or something?
<gnomefreak> cody-somerville: looks like it i asked same thing a while ago
<gnomefreak> noone could tell me why
<charlie-tca> persia pinged all the members, but I haven't seen an answer
<mako> i replied to persia but they had left
<mako> gnomefreak: i am at a all-day meeting for the wikimedia foundation and don't usually make this one for timezones anyway
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team
<persia> mako: Sorry.  I've been having network issues today.  Thanks for the explanation.
<sabdfl> hello all
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:11. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> this is the bi-weekly Ubuntu Technical Board meeting
<mdz> there is nothing on the agenda at present
<mdz> so I'll open the floor for brief topics
<mdz> [TOPIC] Other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other business
<sabdfl> nothing from me
<mdz> Scott is on his way
<mdz> there are a few things outstanding on the mailing list which we could discuss
<mdz> cdrtools
<mdz> DKMS
<Keybuk> here now, EPIC Google Calendar FAIL again
<mdz> that fsck on shutdown thing
<mdz> AutoFsck
<Keybuk> urgh
<Keybuk> everything's an hour out this week :-/
<Keybuk> it must have got confused about me being in Istanbul
<mdz> [TOPIC] cdrtools
<MootBot> New Topic:  cdrtools
<Keybuk> cdrtools: appears to need a lawyer at this point.  My armchair-licence-laywer sense tells me that the licences are not compatible
<mdz> sabdfl: anything to say on cdrtools?  I think this is on your plate currently
<sabdfl> i'm expecting to meet joerg in Portland next week
<sabdfl> don't believe we can change our position
<sabdfl> so, no further action
<mdz> ok, so we seem to agree that there is in fact an issue, and need further discussion with joerg to work it out
<mdz> [TOPIC] DKMS
<MootBot> New Topic:  DKMS
<Keybuk> upload privileges thereof?
<mdz> so, DKMS is now in main, and Mario still wants to maintain it
<mdz> Mark and I both said we were OK with limited upload privileges, and I added that I thought Mario ought to pursue core-dev as well
<mdz> Keybuk: do you have a position?
<Keybuk> my only thought is that we've previously granted core-dev with restriction in these cases
<Keybuk> should we change those cases to now be upload privilege?
<Keybuk> and how does this interact with future archive changes?
<mdz> Keybuk: I think this can be a pilot test for restricted upload
<mdz> the functionality exists, but requires some hand hacking in the Launchpad DB
<mdz> if it works, we can then migrate the other special cases (tim and till, as I recall)
<Keybuk> I have no objection to this
<mdz> Keybuk: I think it dovetails nicely with ArchiveReorganisation
<mdz> in that these are just more lists of packages
<mdz> with specific permissions and other attributes
<mdz> ok, so I'll confirm to Celso that we can experiment on Mario
<mdz> [TOPIC] AutoFsck
<MootBot> New Topic:  AutoFsck
<mdz> this first came up some months ago, and was re-raised just recently on the list by sabdfl
<mdz> I think we're in agreement on two points:
<mdz> 1) we could do better at checking filesystems in a user-friendly way
<mdz> 2) AutoFsck is not a solution we could adopt as-is
<mdz> the author says that he is unable to develop it further, and it could probably be designed more robustly, but the concepts seem worth exploring
<Keybuk> which concepts?
<mdz> like running fsck on shutdown
<Keybuk> it doesn't run fsck on shutdown though
<mdz> rather than on startup, when the user clearly wants to use the computer
<mdz> Keybuk: quoting you:
<mdz> (1) run the filesystem check on shutdown when close to the maximum count
<mdz> (2) get rid of the mount count check altogether
<mdz> AutoFsck attempts a variant of (1).
<mdz> I haven't read the code, only your technical review
<mdz> have I misunderstood it?
<Keybuk> ish
<Keybuk> but the underlying "I've finished with my machine for a bit, check the filesystem and power it off" idea is a sound one
<Keybuk> of course, an actual user shutdown is often a bad time since the machine is often about to be moved or something
<mdz> I suggest that we have a more open discussion about the problem and possible solutions
<mdz> and see what comes of it
<Keybuk> I agree
<mdz> then channel that into planning discussions for post-8.10
<mdz> Keybuk: would you post something to -devel or -devel-discuss and start things off?  your review of AutoFsck might be a good starting point
<Keybuk> indeed, I'll clean that up and bounce it across
<mdz> [ACTION] Keybuk to start discussion about filesystem checking on -devel/-devel-discuss
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Keybuk to start discussion about filesystem checking on -devel/-devel-discuss
<mdz> [TOPIC] Other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other business
<mdz> anything else? 30 seconds
<Keybuk> TB membership?
<mdz> [ACTION] mdz to confirm upload arrangement for Mario with Launchpad
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to confirm upload arrangement for Mario with Launchpad
<Keybuk> as in, the expanding thereof
<mdz> [TOPIC] technical board membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  technical board membership
<mdz> "Appointments to the board are made by Mark Shuttleworth subject to confirmation by a vote amongst the maintainers."
<mdz> [LINK] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<mdz> that page also needs updating to reflect mjg59's resignation
<Keybuk> that too
<mdz> sabdfl: perhaps we should send something out to core developers inviting participation in the technical board?
<mdz> [ACTION] mdz to get techboard web page updated to reflect current membership
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to get techboard web page updated to reflect current membership
<sabdfl> sounds reasonable
<sabdfl> do we want any participation from other communities?
<mdz> sabdfl: I think it's appropriate for tech board members to have a strong working knowledge of Ubuntu practices
<mdz> given that it's responsible for setting policy
<mdz> in general, I think we should encourage participation and input from other communities, but I'm a bit more conservative about the decision-making process
<sabdfl> agreed, and that's the primary function of the TB, but I wondered recently if it would be good for us and them if GNOME, KDE and others had more direct representation in our governance, and where to reflect that if so
<mdz> I think the best representation for those two specifically is via the Ubuntu core developers who package their work
<sabdfl> at a technical level, yes
<mdz> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/248729
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/248729
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248729 in ubuntu-website "/processes/techboard out of date" [Undecided,New]
<sabdfl> perhaps the CC would be a better place for more general representation
<sabdfl> i don't want to do the old "advisory board" because those have no teeth
<sabdfl> not something we need to blog on
<mdz> perhaps the TB could make itself more known to upstream communities, and inform them of good points of contact for working with Ubuntu
<sabdfl> err s/blog/block/
<mdz> and we could certainly provide more upstream-oriented resources, like we do for Debian developers
<mdz> I'll  talk with Jono about accumulating a FAQ in the course of his upstream outreach
<sabdfl> jono and jorge are making great progress
<sabdfl> i'll keep thinking about more direct representation
<mdz> [ACTION] sabdfl to solicit tech board nominees from the community
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sabdfl to solicit tech board nominees from the community
<mdz> [TOPIC] Other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other business
<mdz> last call
<sabdfl> nothing from me
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:41.
<sabdfl> thanks all, cheers
<dendrobates> _/\_
<sommer> hey all
<ivoks> hi
<kirkland> howdy
<Koon> o/
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team
<mathiaz> hia guys !
<nealmcb> o/
<mathiaz> let's get this started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dendrobates> \o/
<dendrobates> _/\_
<Koon> ___ ?
<kirkland> dendrobates: scoliosis?
<zul> hello
<nealmcb> ï»¿https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<dendrobates>  \o/
<dendrobates> _/\_
<nijaba>  /o\
<mathiaz> nealmcb: thanks for the meeting agenda
<nealmcb> :)
<mathiaz> last meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080708
<mathiaz> kirkland: updated the lsb section
<kirkland> mathiaz: i certainly did, big progress there
<kirkland> mathiaz: actually, broke it out to its own wiki page
<kirkland> mathiaz: just waiting on one more change to the library function to make it upstream
<kirkland> mathiaz: could i perhaps call for volunteers from the community to help with other init scripts?
<mathiaz> the new page to track all of this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InitScriptStatusActions
<kirkland> mathiaz: the changes are pretty simple
<emgent> hello
<kirkland> mathiaz: good patch practice
<kirkland> mathiaz: while still being very useful functionality
<kirkland> all: there's a recipe on the page mathiaz mentioned
<sommer> cool
<mathiaz> kirkland: do you have a list of other services that need to be updated ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'll grab that by next week.  owh created that list for hardy some time ago
<mathiaz> kirkland: I see only references to bugs that have already been fixed
<nxvl> kirkland: i will, i'm a little busy this days so i have just a little time at nights for contributing, and init scripts take me just little time
<nxvl> :D
<kirkland> mathiaz: see the link to Onno Benshop's page
<nxvl> but i thing a list of pendients will be really usefull
<kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OnnoBenschop/ubuntu-server/init.d-status
<nxvl> on a quick look
<nxvl> i don't understand that page
<kirkland> i'll nail down a good list
<kirkland> by the next meeting
<mathiaz> kirkland: awesome
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to update the init script wiki page with a list of packages that should be fixed.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to update the init script wiki page with a list of packages that should be fixed.
<mathiaz> nxvl: any news on the augeas front ?
<nxvl> and i'm going on holidays the week after the next one so i will have more time
<nxvl> mathiaz: a lot
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> augeas is already on the archives
<nxvl> it has been acepted an included already
<nxvl> also i got it accepted on debian
<zul> thee is a session about augeas at OLS that I will go to
<nxvl> and it reched the archives on sunday IIRC
<nxvl> or yesterday maybe
<nxvl> raphink has been working on some lenses
<mathiaz> nxvl: great - so the next step is to write more lenses
<nealmcb> any more feedback from ebox on augeas?
<nxvl> and he's reviewing them with lutter (the upstream PL)
<nxvl> mathiaz: yes it is
<nealmcb> debian too - great!
<nxvl> nealmcb: there are still to few lenses
<mathiaz> nxvl: great !
<nxvl> nealmcb: i think it will better to write more of them, and then ping the eBox team again
<nxvl> also
<nxvl> i have been mailed about Model:Config
<mathiaz> nxvl: could you add a point to the roadmap about augeas integration ?
<nxvl> http://config-model.wiki.sourceforge.net/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://config-model.wiki.sourceforge.net/
<nxvl> https://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=155650
<nxvl> and they said it will support augeas soon
<nxvl> so i'm waiting for it to start palying
<nxvl> if they made it soon, i think we can have UCSA for intrepid+1
<nxvl> at least the first version
<nxvl> mathiaz: doing it right now
<mathiaz> nxvl: could config-model be integrated with augeas ?
<mathiaz> nxvl: it seems that both would fit well
<mathiaz> nxvl: the blue section could use augeas and its lenses
<mathiaz> nxvl: I'm refering to the picture at http://config-model.wiki.sourceforge.net/
<mathiaz> hm - nm - I've just noticed that augeas is being integrated in Config::Model
<nealmcb> great minds thinking alike :)
<mathiaz> nxvl: do you think about packaging config-model ?
<nxvl> sorry, needed to minimize the window
 * nxvl read the questions
<nxvl> mathiaz: yes, they said they are planning on supporting augeas
<nxvl> for me that's really important since augeas will let us manage the config files AND let the sysadmins edit them by hand
<nxvl> without breaking anything
<nxvl> i'm in contact with config-model upstream, so i'm waiting for them to support augeas and keeping an eye on it
<nxvl> and yes
<nxvl> i have planned on packaging it BUT after having a good amount on lenses
<nxvl> and after it supports augeas
<mathiaz> nxvl: waiting for support augeas may be a good thing
<mathiaz> nxvl: I wouldn't wait for a lot of lenses
<nxvl> yes, that's true since we can start playing with just few lenses
<nxvl> but
<mathiaz> nxvl: having config available would show case what can be done with augeas
<nxvl> also i have an exchange of mails with them
<mathiaz> nxvl: and thus trigger more interest in writing lenses
<nxvl> and lenses will not be the only think needed, it will also need a model on config-model, which keeps the logic behind the config files managment
<nxvl> which seems pretty fair to me
<nxvl> since just config files managment isn't enought
<mathiaz> nxvl: sure
<nxvl> oh! ok
<nxvl> i understand what you mean
<nxvl> yes, it sounds awesome for me
<nxvl> but still we need to wait until it support augeas
<nxvl> which i hope will be soon
<mathiaz> nxvl: yes - I'd suggest to wait for augeas support and then package for ubuntu
<nxvl> ep
<nxvl> will do
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> i wil keep track of it next week
<nxvl> since this week i'm in final exams
<mathiaz> nxvl: great - thanks
<mathiaz> let's move on
<nxvl> so next week with one think lees to care about i will give ucsa the time i was giving to the university
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Encrypted ~/Private Directory in Each User's Home
<MootBot> New Topic:  Encrypted ~/Private Directory in Each User's Home
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^ ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: in good shape
<kirkland> mathiaz: MIRs nearly done
<kirkland> mathiaz: ie, nearly approved
<mathiaz> kirkland: testing instructions are up-to-date ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: did you resolve the pam stack issue ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: need to clean up some sprintf's in one of the the libraries, other than that, all approved
<kirkland> mathiaz: we're using jdstrand's auth-client-config as a temporary work around for now
<kirkland> mathiaz: slangasek has a comprehensive pam stack configurator in his head, he's trying to put together for intrepid
<kirkland> mathiaz: wiki testing instructions are most definitely up to date
<kirkland> mathiaz: i would very much appreciate any intrepid server users out there using/testing it!!!
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - so thre is a workaround even if the pam integration doesn't make it for intrepid
<sommer> kirkland: is there a link for the testing?
<kirkland> sommer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EncryptedPrivateDirectory#head-4a2aa7460fdca18bfe78bb1283becff406bbc13c
<sommer> kirkland: thx
<kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, there's a one liner that the sysadmin has to run, specifically:
<mathiaz> kirkland: I plan to write a blog post on ubuntuserver asking for testing
<kirkland> mathiaz: sudo auth-client-config -p ecryptfs_standard -t pam-auth,pam-session
<kirkland> mathiaz: it's a one time deal
<kirkland> mathiaz: i think we're running into debian policy problems, with one package needing to modify another package's config files
<mathiaz> kirkland: can't you call that from the posting ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: *postinst*
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm under the impression that Debian Policy says no
<kirkland> mathiaz: libecryptfs0 package provides pam_ecryptfs.so
<nijaba> kirkland: it is a command line, not a change to the conf
<mathiaz> kirkland: IIRC, since it's a command you could use it
<kirkland> mathiaz: it needs to make two modifications, to /etc/pam.d/common-auth, and common-session to make the unwrap passphrase work correctly
<mathiaz> kirkland: you may wanna ask slangasek about it though
<ivoks> only if you could revert the change from pre/post-rm, right?
<kirkland> mathiaz: slangasek would not like it done that way
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok
<kirkland> mathiaz: it will be our fall back for intrepid
<mathiaz> right - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Migrate new installs and upgrades of client and server packages to use SSL v3 or TLS
<MootBot> New Topic:  Migrate new installs and upgrades of client and server packages to use SSL v3 or TLS
<mathiaz> ivoks: you made the list
<ivoks> yay
<ivoks> so, basicaly, this can be done per package or in openssl
<mathiaz> ivoks: there are only a couple of packages
<mathiaz> ivoks: what would be required in openssl ?
<ivoks> if we would drop sslv2 from openssl, we would solve all problems
<Daviey> surely except for upgrades?
<ivoks> openssl can be compiled without SSLv2
<ivoks> and this is the problem
<ivoks> we cant go with openssl compile changes cause of upgrade
<ivoks> but we can do per package configuration change on fresh install
<ivoks> mathiaz: right, only couple of them; if you think of any other that provides SSL, please add it to the list :)
<Daviey> sslv3 would have to conflict with sslv2?
<ivoks> no
<nijaba> what if I have a client that only speaks v2?
<ivoks> most of the services provide sslv2 and sslv3
<nijaba> I would not like to be locked out at openssl level
<ivoks> in most of the cases, clients asks for sslv2
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - dropping sslv2 from openssl should definitely be discussed on ubuntu-devel
<ivoks> nijaba: then that client is very broken
<mathiaz> ivoks: I think the path you suggest is safer and more reasonable for intrepid
<ivoks> sslv3 is here for a decade
<nijaba> ivoks: right, but there are a lot of very broken thing in the enterprise
<mathiaz> ivoks: ie do it on a per-package basis
<kees> I kind of like the idea of just dropping v2 from openssl.  It does make me cringe a little about breaking people, but it's a sure way to make sure it's off.  :P
<mathiaz> dropping sslv2 may be worth discussing at next uds
<ivoks> mathiaz: and i would go only with service providing packages; ie, not with clients
<mathiaz> for the intrepid timeframe, we'd better focus the per-package approach
<ivoks> right... in most cases, changes are trivial...
<mathiaz> ivoks: excellent - the list of package is there.
<ivoks> some packages will require code changes; uw-imapd
<Brazen> What about providing two openssl packages?  One with and one without v2.
<kees> it seems like per-package would be more accepted by Debian upstreams too
<mathiaz> Brazen: that seems too complicated
<Brazen> ok
<ivoks> i'll provide patches for all packages on the list by the end of the week
<mathiaz> ivoks: do you know which packages are easier to do ? like the one that don't require src code changes ?
<ivoks> and then i'll examine what else we have in universe :/
<mathiaz> ivoks: great - thanks for this work
<ivoks> mathiaz: all packages listed on wiki need 1-2 lines in config
<mathiaz> let's move on
<ivoks> :)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Integration of Dovecot SASL and Postfix
<MootBot> New Topic:  Integration of Dovecot SASL and Postfix
<mathiaz> ivoks: have you looked into cyrus sasl integration ?
<ivoks> i tought we decided to replace that with Cyrus SASL
<ivoks> mathiaz: i have couple of cyrus sasl production enviroments
<ivoks> and i think everybody who played with email servers know how to set it up
<mathiaz> ivoks: correct - I've renamed the task to :Integration of SASL and Postfix
<nxvl> i need to run, read you all guys!
 * nxvl HUGS everyone
<ivoks> only 'issue' is to package it right
<ivoks> nxvl: bye; good work ;)
<ivoks> since our postifx is jailed, we'll have to bind mount cyrus socket
<ivoks> and that brings us back to the core of dovecot's sasl 'problem' :D
<ivoks> with one exception; cyrus sasl is configured for sasl out of the box
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - could you discuss this issue with lamont ?
<ivoks> so, we should just bind it's socket to postfix
<ivoks> sure
<mathiaz> ivoks: great - thanks
<ivoks> it was my pleasure ;)
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to discuss cyrus socket integration with lamont
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to discuss cyrus socket integration with lamont
<mathiaz> that's all there is on the Last meeting minutes
<mathiaz> let's move on to review progress made on the specification listed on the  Roadmap.
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Track pages on help.ubuntu.com that need to be updated
<MootBot> New Topic:  Track pages on help.ubuntu.com that need to be updated
<mathiaz> sommer: ?
<sommer> err, not much progress with the wiki
<sommer> the samba sections of the serverguide are updated though :)
<sommer> except for integrating with AD, but that's coming soon
<mathiaz> sommer: awesome - I discussed with LaserJock about bzr branch
<mathiaz> sommer: I haven't done more work on that front
<mathiaz> sommer: but we don't need to keep the .po files in the bzr branch
<sommer> mathiaz: that's cool, I briefly looked at it and didn't get too far either
<mathiaz> sommer: we'd just had to pull them from lp when releasing a new package
<mathiaz> sommer: I'd put that in the release process rather then working on the package itself
<sommer> mathiaz: gotcha, seems pretty straight forward
<mathiaz> sommer: the difference between an upstream write (just using the bzr branch to update the server guide content)
<mathiaz> sommer: and the package maintainer that is responsible for pulling all the things together (with the translateion)
<mathiaz> sommer: dropping the po files would make the bzr branch a few 100k
<mathiaz> sommer: making branching super-fast
<sommer> super fast is good
<sommer> mathiaz: do you have time to do the packaging or are were you looking for help with that... because I'm very willing to help
<mathiaz> sommer: I'll make more experiments about branches to see how we can organize the branches
<sommer> mathiaz: sounds good, I'll keep at updating the content
<mathiaz> sommer: I could figure out the packaging bits, but I'd aim at someelse to do the package maintainance
<mathiaz> sommer: I'll work on the whole workflow
<sommer> mathiaz: very cool, just let me know how I can help
<mathiaz> sommer: sure
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Boot Support for Degraded RAID
<MootBot> New Topic:  Boot Support for Degraded RAID
<mathiaz> kirkland: ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: working on it at the moment
 * nijaba hugs kirkland
<kirkland> mathiaz: it looks relatively containable
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'm hoping for patches this week
<kirkland> mathiaz: hoping to have patches for review by this week, i mean
<kirkland> mathiaz: there's been some misinformation in the bug/wiki
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'm trying to wheedle through that
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - great
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<mathiaz> Open Discussion.
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion.
<mathiaz> anyone wants to add something ?
<sommer> I had a question about kerberos... are we recommending heimdal for intrepid?
<mathiaz> sommer: nope - MIT is in main
<mathiaz> sommer: that's the version that is supported
<mathiaz> sommer: heimdal is in universe
<sommer> mathiaz: cool, answers that quesiton, thanks
<sommer> that's all I had
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same time, same place ?
 * nealmcb will be at oscon next week
<sommer> this time works for me :)
 * nijaba at oscon too
<mathiaz> all right - so same place, same time, next week
<lukehasnoname> who wants to compensate me for hours lost at work and fly me to Oregon?
<nealmcb> nijaba: see you there :)
<nealmcb> lukehasnoname: where do you live?
<lukehasnoname> TX
<Brazen> ooh, drive up to Wichita, KS and we can carpool :D
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
<ivoks> 7o_
<slangasek> hmm, MootBot lies about what time the meeting has ended?
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
<lukehasnoname> Brazen: then we can drive back and carpool to Dallas for Quakecon
<nealmcb> @schedule
<ubottu> nealmcb: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Server Team | 16 Jul 17:00: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 14:00: Java Team
<nealmcb> @now
<ubottu> nealmcb: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 15 2008, 15:59:35 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
<nealmcb> so mootbot is off, but not ubottu :/
<lukehasnoname> ubottu reported my local time
<ubottu> lukehasnoname: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<jussi01> on different servers...
<lukehasnoname> er
<lukehasnoname> mootbt
<lukehasnoname> mootbot
<nealmcb> well, mootbot is off by about a minute and a half, modulo time zones
<nealmcb> and it should indicate what time zone it's giving
<nealmcb> I guess it used to run in UTC
<nealmcb> now central time?
<nealmcb> I reported it: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/mootbot/+bug/138905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 138905 in mootbot "Time is way off" [Undecided,Fix released]
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubottu> juliux: Schedule for Europe/Berlin: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | 16 Jul 19:00: QA Team | 17 Jul 00:00: Platform Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 16:00: Java Team | 17 Jul 18:00: Ubuntu Mobile
<philwyett> leoquant: ping
<philwyett> leoquant: Being that you chose this public forum instead of answering my email. Do you have any objection to your wiki page being added to the category 'CategoryHomepage' like all other Ubuntu users pages?
<leoquant> philwyett like all other users? doing this on your one, as a private action? are you considering building a wiki clean up team?
<leoquant> +1, its ok phil...
<philwyett> leoquant: I hope my work and my work work with other teams will build a base of willing people. However, I want to do the work and for now I must rely on myself to do it. In areas I am now working with the QA team and others in certain sections of docs.
<leoquant> ok
<philwyett> leoquant: I have as agreed added you back to the category we discussed. Thank you so much for the conversation and assistance it is much appreciated mu friend!
<philwyett> s/mu/my
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-16
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
<LaserJock> anybody around for the QA Team meeting?
<sommer> sure
<LaserJock> sommer: darn :-)
<sommer> no one else?
<LaserJock> sommer: the meeting was moved to 14:00 UTC today because of the Canonical sprint
<sommer> ooooh... doh
<LaserJock> it was an in-person/conf. call meeting
<LaserJock> sommer: np, a number of people didn't know
<sommer> no big deal... there'll be another :)
<LaserJock> sommer: next week will be the regularly scheduled time/place
<sommer> LaserJock: cool, thanks
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-17
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 19 Jul 22:00 UTC: IRC Council | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
<x_hunter> Hello
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 19 Jul 22:00 UTC: IRC Council | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 14:00 UTC: Java Team | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 19 Jul 22:00 UTC: IRC Council | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
<persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
<Koon> o/
 * slytherin is
<persia> OK.  Not so many of us, but let's get started and see if others join as we go.
<persia> The agenda is posted at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<persia> First up is roadmap review.
<persia> FIrst item is OpenJDK in main.  doko, could you share status and plans?  I see the bug is closed.
<Koon> doko is not here afaict
<persia> Oh well.  It seems to be in main.  I'll move it to the done list.
<slytherin> persia: rmadison doesn't say so.
<persia> slytherin: Hmm.  I was looking at bug #246249
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246249 in entertainer "Glade filepaths for the Config, Logviewer and Prefs is wrong" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246249
<Koon> slytherin: it's been promoted like 6 hours ago, the archives may not have caught up
<slytherin> Koon: ahh, thanks for info
<persia> Ah, right.  That would do it.  It probably needs something else in main to depend on it to actually get pulled (and some archive-admin to act on the anastacia output)
<persia> Right.  Next.  Integration of Java into the server stack.  Robilad doesn't appear to be here: does anyone else know the current status of the breakdown planning?
<Koon> no, he identified maven2 as a blocker, and that's one of my agenda points
<Koon> otherwise I don't really know
<slytherin> Koon: Can you explain what needs to be done for maven2? The other day I was planning to package geronimo but it uses maven
<Koon> slytherin: sure, that's one of the next agenda items
<persia> Koon: Thanks.  Let's work from that, and try to get the breakdown for next week.  Would you be able to touch base with him over the next week to get some more breakdown published?
<Koon> yes, hopefully he will post it as a w-i-p wiki page
<persia> Koon: Thanks.
<Koon> here he comes
<mareks> netbeans depends on ini4j which uses maven for build in its newest version so I would like to know maven2 status can it be used as build-dep?
<dalibor> hello, sorry for being late
<persia> dalibor: No worries.  We had just gotten to your item.
<Koon> mareks: that's one of the next agenda items, be patient :)
<persia> Can you share the current status of the breakdown of "Integration of Java in the server stack"?
<dalibor> i listened in last week on the work the glassfish team has been doing on creating their ubuntu packages, and
<dalibor> afaict it boils down (for them) to a bunch of things
<dalibor> a) like other large java projects, they need to build with maven
<dalibor> so a fully funtioning, well intergrated maven 2 would be a good thing
<Koon> dalibor: we'll discuss issues and plans in one of the next meeting items
<Koon> (for maven)
<dalibor> b) for glassfish and other app server, to package them in acceptable ways, they need to be broken into dependencies,
<dalibor> and the dependency graphs are both large and quite challenging to figure out
<persia> b) is just a matter of getting the libraries together, right?
<dalibor> yes, and making sure that forexample duplicates of libraries are either eliminated,
<dalibor> or in case of abi breakage packaged separately.
<dalibor> ASM is a typical example there in general, I don't havea galssfish example at hand.
<persia> Right.  Like the current mess with Derby
<dalibor> why it is so challengeing to figure out the complete dependency graph is not clear to me yet, but I assume that it's basically the circular mess problem
<persia> So, for next week, can we identify several tasks for the roadmap so that people can better work in parallel?
<dalibor> whenre you have multiple different version of the same loibrary with different dependencies in the same product
<dalibor> so that rather than having a simple tree, you have a lot of branching spirals, if you can follow my mental picture
<slytherin> right, we have more than one libservlet, libxalan etc.
<dalibor> there are some tools that can assist that process, afaict, we have some jar analyzer tools in debian for example
<dalibor> it would be useful to evalute how well they would support such packaging analysis tasks
<dalibor> and as far as api/abi compatibility goes, there are some tools from the community/sun that can help with that (japitools, sigcheck)
<persia> Shall we target have consistent version of libraries for everything for intrepid?  That seems fairly ambitious to me, but we can try.
<dalibor> i think it's a good goal, but we may need to make some compromises.
<persia> Anyone willing to lead that initiative?
<dalibor> 7me is scrambling trying to find the loig of the meeting so far
<persia> dalibor: It's not available yet.  Only topic was JDK in main (seems done), and looking at the server stuff, which mostly waited for you.
<slytherin> persia: Can we get input from Debian guys on that part?
<dalibor> yes, please
<persia> slytherin: Likely, but need to have someone willing to be ambassador.
<dalibor> i'd suggest bring this up on debian-java, now that openjdk 6 is in sid,
<persia> OK.  Anyone up for that, and willing to report at the next meeting?
<dalibor> and trying to work out a good way to sync up.
<slytherin> persia: I can not promise anything as of now. :-)
<persia> dalibor?  Koon?
<persia> mareks?
<dalibor> I'll be at OSCON during the next meeting, so I#ll have to pass that one on to someone else.
<Koon> I have no links, I prefer to pass on that one
<slytherin> keep it open. I will see what I can do.
<dalibor> thanks, slytherin
<persia> slytherin: Thanks.  We'll not add it to the roadmap unless you can confirm next week.
<persia> OK.  Moving on...
<persia> slytherin: Could you give us an update on the effort to migrate packages to universe?
<slytherin> Sure.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Java Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 19 Jul 22:00 UTC: IRC Council | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team
<slytherin> The only package that has been moved recently to universe is statcvs. Apart from that I have not worked on anything else specific as I was working on batik update.
<slytherin> I have compiled a list of packages that build depend on Sun JDK and will evaluate one by one in coming weeks.
<persia> Great!  Do you need help for anything specific, or have any questions others might be answer?
<slytherin> Oh, wait, statcvs has not yet moved to universe. The sync is pending.
<persia> (err ... able to ... )
<slytherin> None as of now.
<dalibor> i xn areport on the debian side that two packages have moved to main as a result of openjdk6 making it in so far.
<dalibor> tinylaf and libcodemodel-java
<persia> Excellent.  Can we get promotion bugs in Ubuntu for those?
<slytherin> Yes, I will do that.
<persia> Great.
<dalibor> thanks, slytherin
<mareks> we would like to update lucene2 from contrib to main in debian
<mareks> is there any info how to do that?
<persia> mareks: Probably best to work with slytherin in #ubuntu-java on specifics after the meeting.
<dalibor> lucense is a bit of a hard item, there was a thread on that recently
<dalibor> i'll dig out the URL post meeting
<persia> That's the Roadmap review.  Next agenda item is to look at our team report.
<slytherin> I think Debian is using Sun JDk for lucene2. Hence I will first have to ask them to use openjdk
<slytherin> I mean for build
<persia> We need to publish our monthly  team report on the 22nd.
<persia> Anyone willing to look over the meeting minutes so far and update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/TeamReport ?
<dalibor> re lucene2, see http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.packages.java.devel/12593/focus=462167
<dalibor> i can have a go at it on saturday
<slytherin> dalibor: Don't. :-) lucene2 is a dragon. I will try it today. Can you instead take up task of updating team report?
<dalibor> yeah, sorry - i meant the report
<dalibor> thanks for keeping me unambiguous ;)
<persia> OK.  In the absence of volunteers, I'll compile the report.  I'll ask all of those assigned an item on the roadmap to please make some time to review on the 20th or 21st to make sure their activities are accurately represented.
<persia> (This will be before the next meeting, so please try to schedule some time)
<slytherin> persia: When I tried in hardy cycle, lucene2 was not building with gcj due to some problem in gcj. Let me try again today. If it builds with GCJ, nothing better than that.
<persia> Next item: Using maven in packaging.  Koon?
<persia> dalibor: That'd be great, as I'll be mostly offline this weekend.  THanks.
<Koon> yes
<Koon> So I've been investigating that area -- I'm no maven specialist so anyone knowing more than me, please interrupt/correct me
<Koon> Maven is in main, but cannot really be used to build Debian packages
<Koon> The 3 problems are :
<Koon> 1/ maven uses heavily online download of deps, we need to do everything offline
<Koon> in particular, it downloads dependency info
<Koon> (.pom files)
<Koon> in a kind of recursive process. so we would have to have every required .pom file before even starting to build
<Koon> this can be done in two ways (at least)
<Koon> one is the fedora way, shipping poms with libraries and a bunch of them in a default_poms package
<Koon> the other is to download every pom file required to bulid and ship it inside the sources
<Koon> s/bulid/build/
<persia> Is that not in some ways duplicate to te information we want in debian/contro?  Can we maybe create a tool to recursively walk the tree and update debia/control for build-deps?
<Koon> that would be a possibility, but hacking maven so that it uses debian/control rather than XML .pom files is probably complicated
<Koon> 2/ maven should use installed packages rather than their own JAR repository
<Koon> so you have to patch it so that it supports getting libraries from /usr/lib/java
<Koon> (or share)
<Koon> *and* you have to provide a dependency map file so that you map whatever version maven requires to the one you have in lib
<Koon> both of those patches are in the Fedora maven-jpp thing
<Koon> 3/ maven heavily uses plugins
<Koon> some of them are "official" maven ones, some other are found in maven repos, and some of them are build-support ones that are built during the maven build
<persia> Ah.  I guess I like the Fedora way then.  .pom files provided by the providing libraries.
<slytherin> Koon: Why not make maven generate build dependencies from .pom file. ex. You have a variable in control - ${maven-depends} which will be replaced by the dependencies generated by maven.
<Koon> persia: that's more work, but it's definitely cleaner
<persia> cleaner means we can propose it to Debian which means more helping hands :)
<dalibor> i should add that deepak bhole, the author of the fedfora patchset for maven, offered to be of assistance if someone wanted to merge his patches in
<Koon> slytherin: why not. the idea is to try to write a spec on how we want to do the maven thing
<slytherin> dalibor: DO you have his email id?
<Koon> I've absolutely no clue on what would be the best way (or the most Debian-compatible way) of doing it
<Koon> so I can start the spec but there are probably more knowledgable people to propose implementation details
<slytherin> Let's try fedora way first. No point in reinventing the wheel. If it is working for them, it will surely work for us.
<persia> Probably best to catch man-di in #ubuntu-java to ask about the most Debian-compatible way
<persia> (and otherwise I agree with slytherin)
<slytherin> As long as the solution is not dependent on how rpm works, I am all for it.
<Koon> slytherin: their way of storing Java libraries is slightly different so it would need adaptations, but the Fedora patchset is definitely a good starting point
<Koon> (in fact it's the JPackage patchset)
<dalibor> slytherin: dbhole@redhat.com
<nixternal> we used maven here at work for our RPMs
<persia> Koon: Can you drive that for now, and work with Deepak to at least identify the patchset for presentation for next week?
<nixternal> I have since switched to using just apache-ant and rpmbuild...much easier and quicker
<Koon> persia: yes
<persia> nixternal: Have you tried with glassfish?  That seems to be the big target.
<persia> Koon: Thanks.
<slytherin> nixternal: Not a solution here. We can not ask every upstream project to change their build.
<nixternal> no I haven't...I will check it out
<nixternal> slytherin: wasn't reccomending it as a solution
<Koon> persia: I can also start a spec with use cases and identified problems -- but we should find the right guy to write the implementation proposal
<dalibor> build systems tend to be sacred ;)
<slytherin> nixternal: Sorry, i misunderstood
<mareks> ini4j (as I said :) is simple enough to test concept let me know I can help
<nixternal> hehe, no problem
<persia> Koon: Starting something would be great, and we ought be able to discuss on #ubuntu-java, with our weekly review.  Would you mind adding it to the roadmap so we catch it every week.
 * nixternal is looking at glassfish now
<Koon> will do
<persia> OK.  Next topic: standard runtimes/depends for packaging.  Koon?
<Koon> I wanted us to have a quick discussion on what /should/ be the right depends/recommends/suggests set for a java library
<Koon> so that I can start filing bugs about those who are not compliant
<Koon> as an example, see bug #249178
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 249178 in ecj "libecj-java shouldn't recommend java2-runtime" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/249178
<Koon> libecj-java recommends java2-runtime
<Koon> so in intrepid a full JRE gets installed
<persia> slytherin: Could you address that: you seem to have the most experience of adjusting those.
<Koon> for servers we would like a simple JRE-headless to be pulled in
<slytherin> Koon: right. But does ecj need a runtime at all?
<Koon> the right depend should be java2-runtime-headless, or maybe "default-jre | java2-runtime-headless"
<Koon> or maybe it should not be a recommend but a depend
<Koon> or maybe it should not depend/recommend anything
<Koon> what is the right way to do it you think ?
<Koon> slytherin: precisely :)
<Koon> libecj-java doesn't need a runtime. An application using it would
<slytherin> The problem is that trying to suggest that Debian should set some policy in this matter has not yielded any result. So I guess we do it ourselves and stick to it.
<Koon> currently I find various sets used. The end results is that most of the time, you get a full JDK or JRE installed
<Koon> where for most server packages you really don't want that (a jre-headless would be better)
<slytherin> Also I have seen many packages that land in debian contrib has very weird build/runtime dependencies. Theer are still some packages which have hard coded dependencies on gij or kaffe.
<slytherin> Koon: Can you draft a policy and put it on wiki for review under java team? We will make changes to it as and when needed.
<slytherin> persia: Can you suggest any way to enforce such policy in Ubuntu?
<Koon> slytherin: I have no clue what the right answer is. I am pretty sure doko has a preference on that
<slytherin> Koon: That is why I said draft. :-)
<Koon> in fact I wished he would be here to answer :)
<Koon> like for the maven thing, I can start a document that lays out the problem
<slytherin> Koon: But your are right in one aspect. Most of the packages really need on -jre-headless
<persia> slytherin: For the most part, if we establish a policy, we can then enforce it by uploading fixes to anything not in compliance.
<slytherin> hmm
<persia> Most developers are likely to defer to the Java team about Java packaging.
<slytherin> then let's establish one.
<Koon> slytherin: what would be your take on it ? Not having any runtime dep for libraries ?
<Koon> or a minimal "recommends" ? or a minimal "depends" ?
<slytherin> Koon: If you mean no runtime jre dep then we will have to discuss that.
<slytherin> Koon: What if you downloaded some program form somewhere which depends on a lib. You install lib but not JRE, you can not run the program.
<persia> That's a big enough change we also want to closely coordinate with the Debian Java team.  Getting that into the Debian Java policy would reduce our work considerably.
<persia> Also, most desktop users ought get a JRE for the browser plugins.  Server users would likely hav a headless JRE if they are using Java.
<Koon> slytherin: you could just say it's the program from somewhere that should depend on the runtime
 * persia likes that interpretation
<dalibor> slytherin: the hard coded dependencieson kaffe/gcj come froma dark time before we had openjdk and had not settled on gcj yet.
<slytherin> Koon: Nope, that is bug change. Let's keep it aside for now.
<Koon> there is a corner case too
<Koon> There could be a JAR which provides graphical features as well as non-graphical features
<Koon> your server program depends on that library
<Koon> that depends on the -jre one
<Koon> having the program depend on the lib and the jre-headless runtime would fix that
<slytherin> Koon: I haev to yet see a server program that depends on AWT/SWING unless it is an applet
<Koon> slytherin: that's my point, let me reexplain
<slytherin> Koon: Let's discuss this in #ubuntu-java at some later time. We should now close the meeting.
<Koon> sure
<Koon> so I can start a wiki document to lay out the issue and the cases we want to cover
<persia> OK.  Are there any other topics for discussion today?
<Koon> then anyone with a good implementation idea can participate
<persia> Koon: That would be great.
<slytherin> None form my side.
<persia> Right.  Meeting adjourned.  We'll meet again on Thursday at 14:00 UTC.
<persia> Any volunteers to draft the minutes for this week?
<slytherin> Two weeks from now, right?
<persia> Let's do one week.  The meetings have been pretty active, and we've run over.  If we get below 30 minutes, every two weeks makes more sense.
<slytherin> Ok.
<Koon> see you then
<slytherin> persia: There is volunteer for minutes. You. :-P
 * persia will write the minutes then.
<slytherin> Good bye. I am leaving for home.
<dalibor> thanks everyone, bye1
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 19 Jul 22:00 UTC: IRC Council | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council
 * ogra waves
<davidm> Meeting starting in moments
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jul 22:00 UTC: IRC Council | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> There are no action items from last week.
<davidm> And there are no current agenda items.
<davidm> Does anyone have any thing they want to add to the agenda?
<GrueMaster> Any status on intrepid?
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Work on Intrepid images is underway. I expect to have something in a couple of weeks.
<GrueMaster> ok, thanks.  Just curious on when a core image will be available.  Nothing fancy.
<StevenK> GrueMaster: "Soon" :-)
<davidm> Any other items?
<davidm> OK endmeeting going once ..................................................................
<davidm> OK endmeeting going twice ...............................
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:28.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jul 22:00 UTC: IRC Council | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
<kees> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:02. The chair is kees.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kees> hello!  anyone here for the Ubuntu Security Team meeting?
<jdstrand> o/
<kees> :)
<kees> well, for the record, I'll just mention a few quick things.
<kees> first, the Smack how-to has been written up, and is here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SmackConfiguration
<kees> I'd like to see it made specific to Ubuntu (i.e. instead of "2.6.25 and later", have it say "Intrepid and later")
<kees> two things need doing: 1) enable it in the kernel, 2) package smack-utils
<kees> SELinux was syncd from Debian.  This caused a few minor problems with the "selinux" package, and I've fixed that by bumping epoch on it, and patching checkpolicy to do a correct versioned Conflict on the old Debian "selinux" package
<kees> aaand, okay, that's it.  :)  I'll send some email to the hardened list.
<kees> jdstrand: anything?  :)
<jdstrand> I've been working on a php5 update this week, and it should be out soon
<jdstrand> dnsmasq also will be out soon, but upstream has been refining the security fix
<jdstrand> (which is why there has been a delay)
<kees> cool.  Okay, we'll close up shop this week, and schedule another meeting in 2 weeks.  :)
<kees> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:11.
<emgent> ?
<emgent> argh, I was late. np go to next meeting \o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-19
<Sunny_Xdude> hi
<nalioth> @now
<ubottu> nalioth: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 19 2008, 20:22:14 - Next meeting: Marketing Team in 37 minutes
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Marketing Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jul 22:00 UTC: IRC Council | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: IRC Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team
<nalioth> ok, who all is here?
<cody-somerville> I'm here
<nickrud> me
<Flannel> I am
<jussi01> me
<jarlen> hey
<Pici> Apologies, I lost track of time.
<nalioth> we're waiting on other council members
<Pici> oh.
 * Pici twiddles this thumbs
 * nickrud 's coworkers are beginning to think I'm scamming them, trying to get out of work
<nalioth> nickrud: this is an important meeting
<nalioth> can't you tell?
<nickrud> nalioth absolutely. Last to know, first to show ;)
<nalioth> i have things to cover, but really don't want to begin w/o the other councilors
<nalioth> anyone got their phone or pager numbers?
 * jussi01 looks
 * stdin looks in
<jussi01> nope, nothing, sorry :/
<PriceChild> Right I'm back, sorry for being late.
<jussi01> yay
<PriceChild> I had a few things too, but haven't added them to the wiki yet. *checks its current status*
<jussi01> waiting on elkbuntu now?
<PriceChild> we'll give her till when my clock says 20 past, then me and nalioth can fight over who starts.
<PriceChild> Speaking for myself, I think my points for this meeting are simply for openning discussion/beginning things, rather than making decisions here and now.
<PriceChild> Right lets start.
<PriceChild> 1. Ubuntustudio & The IRC Council
<PriceChild> So this is mainly an FYI. The Ubuntu Studio (I believe) are happy with the IRC Council's management of channels, and would like to make sure we can look after theirs, which will also help keep them in the core ubuntu community and governance structure.
<PriceChild> This means that they probably need to make a little mini statement, on the wiki or their ML etc. and we go through the GCF process with freenode to ensure we can fix things if they go wrong.
<PriceChild> Hey _MMA_
<_MMA_> PriceChild: Ya shoulda poked me. :P
<PriceChild> _MMA_: sorry :)
<PriceChild> Right so hopefully, the irc council can sort this out with the ubuntustudio leadership, ensure both sides are happy and things get done. I don't think there's much more to say about it tbh?
<jussi01> not from me.
<PriceChild> So a, mini statement b, gcf
<_MMA_> Nothing really to "sort" but to do it right?
<PriceChild> Yup.
<PriceChild> Anyone got any comments on that before we move on?
<Pici> I have no comments.
<jussi01> we can do that :)
<PriceChild> Oh one point...
<PriceChild> with the irc council getting gc status with freenode etc... the council and ubuntu-irc is *not* going to take over the management of all their channels etc. etc.
<PriceChild> The leadership there will stay as they are, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". And the 'ubuntu-irc' team on launchpad will remain a group of operators the council reccomends if any group needs some.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: IRC Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team
<_MMA_> PriceChild: SOunds good here.
<PriceChild> So as far as everyone but the council is concerned... things stay exactly as they were :)
<PriceChild> nalioth: want to do the next one?
<nalioth> as you folks may have noticed, the council is down a couple of folks
<nalioth> we'd like to accept nominations for 2 people to assume positions on it
<nickrud> I don't know if he's interested, but I'd nominate ompaul
<PriceChild> steady on there :)
<nalioth> plesae send your nominations to irc-council@lists.ubuntu.com
<cody-somerville> I nominate Alan Pope (popey) and Nick Ali (boredandblogging).
 * nickrud hates slow typists, he thinks they're done ;)
<Pici> Can nominations come from non irc-team members?
<jussi01> nalioth: what would you like in the email? just a name? or more?
<PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil roughly outlines the process of nominations.
<nalioth> jussi01: eventually, there will be a vote
<PriceChild> I think the best way to go is for people to decide themselves whether they want to run or not, and notify the IRC Council.
<PriceChild> Best way is through irc-council@lists.ubuntu.com
<cody-somerville> Is it still a requirement that an IRC Council candidate has to have the support of atleast one existing member of the council?
<PriceChild> cody-somerville: the wiki explains requirements
<elkbuntu> awake now
<jussi01> yay :D
<cody-somerville> PriceChild, I'm simply asking for clarification.
<PriceChild> cody-somerville: - The nominees support from at least one active IRC Council member (essential)
<PriceChild> The IRC Council will send a mail to ubuntu-irc@l.u.c so that nobody misses it, and maybe post a few more announcements elsewhere.
<jussi01> By what date should nominations be in?
<PriceChild> We'll probably set a deadline in that email. (now elky's back we can decide now)
<elkbuntu> try not to make it so early on a weekend for me. as you see it makes it prone to failure
<PriceChild> then we'll publish the list of candidates that would like to run, and you should all either post testimonials on their wiki pages, or send a mail to irc-council@l.u.c with your opinions
<elkbuntu> if dont get my weekend sleepins, i burn out during the week from the commute
<cody-somerville> PriceChild, How many people can one person nominate?
<PriceChild> Finally, the council will add their annotations, and forward the list to the community council, who make the decision, after perhaps getting us a little more involved.
<PriceChild> Please someone shout up if that all seems silly or doesn't follow the wiki page or could be done better :)
<nalioth> cody-somerville: he amended it to "let folks nominate themselves"
<PriceChild> cody-somerville: "1216507069 20080719T233749 < PriceChild> I think the best way to go is for people to decide themselves whether they want to run or not, and notify the IRC  Council.
<PriceChild> "
<cody-somerville> ok
<PriceChild> by all means give them a poke if they don't follow the ubuntu-irc ML and think they'd be interested.
<jussi01> PriceChild: so, to clarify, for those interested they should send a mail nominationting themselves to the irc-council ML ???
<nalioth> jussi01: correct
<jussi01> ok, good, thats clear then.
<PriceChild> jussi01: I think that's the way to go, I'd rather not have lots of emails nominating people who aren't interested. As I said above, if you want to nominate someone, tell them, and if they're interested they'll go for it :)
<PriceChild> nalioth: elkbuntu: Happy with the above? Anything you would like to add/correct/change... or still catching up?
<nalioth> PriceChild: it all looks good
<jussi01> I have actually something to bring up, if someone wants to let me know an appropriate time for that.
<elkbuntu> PriceChild, probably not wise i try comment while still rubbing sleep from my eyes
<PriceChild> elkbuntu: right well when you catch up on it, just give me a bell. I'll probably find your messages about this time tomorrow. I might also draft the email and drop it on a pastebin tonight before I disappear.
<PriceChild> Cool, so moving on.
<elkbuntu> have fun. make sure you heckle jono heaps
<PriceChild> jussi01: so what do you have for us?
<jussi01> PriceChild: I wanted to propose/discus the idea of having shorter terms for council members -say, 1 year, perhaps.
<PriceChild> I think this is something to bring up with the CC tbh.
<jussi01> ok.
<PriceChild> I personally see no problem with 2 year terms....
<PriceChild> *AS LONG AS* people follow the CoC/LCoC and "step down considerably" type thing :)
<PriceChild> as well as all the other clauses
<jussi01> hehe, I just dont feel people should have to commit for that long - alot of things can happen in the space of 2 years.
<elkbuntu> the irc council has a considerably smaller pool of people to derive from, in some cases it's not ideal to enforce a 1yr limit
<PriceChild> Of course yes.
<PriceChild> Although there is a commitment, we can still step down if we can no longer fulfill our duties.
<nickrud> Is there any reason that stints on the council couldn't be consecutive?
<cody-somerville> They can be
<cody-somerville> the wiki says so
<jussi01> nickrud: the wiki says they can be re-elected
<nickrud> so, one year commitments with an option for renewal ;)
 * cody-somerville nods.
<PriceChild> But the CC approves the document, so if there is an issue with that then I think we need to draw up a proposal on the wiki, add discussion and add it to the agenda for one of their meetings.
<PriceChild> So any other items people want to bring to the table?
<nalioth> for those of you who aren't aware of this page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda                y'all can fill it in as you think of stuff
<nalioth> any other business?
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-20
<nickrud> yes, a more codified way of handling bans among the various operators
<nickrud> not looking for a resolution, but something that I think is a pressing issue for the future
<nalioth> nickrud: do you mean "ban resolution" or "ban setting" ?
<elkbuntu> something more than the bantracker?
<nalioth> i personally think that if the op hasn't commented the bantracker, his/her bans should be able to be released after 24h by by any op with access to the BT
<nickrud> resolution. Ban tracker is good, but no one ever comments about grounds for unbanning, if the op is not around. And I've seen more than a handful of bans placed by people in conflicting time zones
<elkbuntu> nalioth, even for repeat/chronic offenders?
<Flannel> elkbuntu: Those should have comments in the bantracker
<nickrud> that issue of repeaters has crossed my mind, so it's no simple matter to find a reasonably flexible but fair mechanism
<jussi01> Ok, im off to bed, Ill catch up on backlog in the morning, nini all
<elkbuntu> Flannel, those usually have a huge-ass list in the ban tracker of prior bans/removes
<nalioth> elkbuntu: repeat offenders will be commented at some time in their pasts, i'd presume and should come up in a BT search
<nickrud> I'm definitely not a good bt commenter myself so I can't point at anyone else. But I think it would be a good move for us to start being more consistent about it. Then we'll have more data to mash about while we try to work out some formal scheme
<nickrud> or informal, but a scheme none the less
<nalioth> nickrud: do we see a wiki page somewhere from you on this?
<nickrud> nalioth not yet. I'm still scratching my head. I find good reasons not to do whatever I think up.
<elkbuntu> it is worth trying, but i do warn against blindly unbanning people just becuase they have no comment.
<nalioth> elkbuntu: a single entry into the BT usually indicates no prior history
<PriceChild> Everyone comment on the bt more! :)
<nickrud> I think a good first step is simply commenting. And noting in the comment that it's ok to unban.
<elkbuntu> agreed
<nickrud> no ok, no unban
<nalioth> not sure if any of you are familiar with dircbot, but if there is enough interest, perhaps we could do something like that ( iow, you tell the bot your reason for bannning at the time )
<Pici> The rule used to be for operators who banned someone to be the person to deal with their unbanning, are we dismissing that rule?
<nickrud> Pici only with explicit prior permission in the bt
<nalioth> Pici: that has never been a hard rule, it's just come to be "the way things are"
<elkbuntu> Pici, that one should really only be enforced for repeat offenders
<nickrud> I'm suggesting that, anyway
<Pici> Agreed
<PriceChild> I think dircbot would be good, and would like to try it out, its quite good at making you add comments so things make sense(ish).
 * PriceChild removes some commas
<nalioth> somethign like dircbot, anyway
<nalioth> okay, any other business?
<elkbuntu> couldnt it just be hacked into our current frankenstein?
<nalioth> elkbuntu: that option is available to us
<elkbuntu> nalioth, one other item. retrieving the name ubotu.
<nalioth> we wouldn't be using dircbot, but a clone thereof
<elkbuntu> is it at all possible/is seveas willing to part with it?
<nalioth> seveas is still active in #ubuntu, why not ask him?
<elkbuntu> it gets asked of -ops several times a week, but i havent had time to annoy him abou tit
<nalioth> we chose the bot names we have for ease of <tab-complete>
<nalioth> but it would be nice to get the other nick(s) back
<Flannel> ubotu hasn't logged in for 11 weeks, so even if he doesn't agree, we can technically take the nick back through regular freenode nick stuffs
<nalioth> Flannel: yes, but that wouldn't be very friendly
<elkbuntu> Seveas, is also here in this channel. maybe he could volunteer to discuss with the ops team at a later time
<Pici> Right, but it would be courteous to talk to him about it
<Flannel> nalioth: no, which is why I said it was in case it fell through
<nalioth> Flannel: noted
<nalioth> anything else on anyones plate?
<PriceChild> Great well that's it then.
<PriceChild> Will get the email sorted, and try to sort out a meeting for in 2 weeks or so, announce it earlier and yes :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jul 11:00 UTC: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 22 Jul 15:00 UTC:  Server Team | 22 Jul 18:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 23 Jul 17:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Jul 22:00 UTC: Platform Team | 24 Jul 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<boredandblogging> @now
<ubottu> boredandblogging: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 20 2008, 15:41:11 - Next meeting: Asia and Oceania Ubuntu Membership Approval Board in 1 day
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-13
<czajkowski> Aloha
<dholbach> Buenos DÃ­as!
<sabdfl> hello all
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:02. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One URL
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One URL
<dholbach> we have silbs1 here who added the item to the agenda
<silbs1> hi
<dholbach> hi silbs1
<dholbach> What specifically needs discussion there?
<sabdfl> the URL is being raised here in advance, because there were a lot of requests for a CC heads-up on such changes after U1 was announced
<sabdfl> i don't believe there are any new issues, but since the original Ubuntu One name caused dissent in the CC, I supported silbs in raising it here
<sabdfl> if there are no comments, we can move on
<dholbach> is there some detail about what the suggested change is?
<dholbach> as I'll do the team report later on, I better get it right :-)
<silbs1> dholbach: that the main URL be one.ubuntu.com, rather than ubuntuone.com
<dholbach> Ok, thanks a lot
<dholbach> as mdke is not around, let's defer the Ubuntu Wiki discussion
<sabdfl> alright, then let's move on. dholbach?
<dholbach> yep
<dholbach> stgraber, highvoltage: any of you around?
<dholbach> the agenda item "Edubuntu. Introducing Stephane Graber for EC approval, changes to LP teams. Community structure. " was up the last time already, but we didn't get around to it
<sabdfl> it's not good that we don't have mako, or technoviking, or mdke here
<dholbach> I suggested to stgraber to bring it up via email, but we didn't get it yet
<sabdfl> we wanted to ahve the meeting now in order to get feedback so things could move forward
<dholbach> technoviking is on vacation and mdke is at work
<ogra> and its  bad time for him
<ogra> *a bad
<dholbach> I sent a mail to the CC list about the date and time :/
<dholbach> anyway, I'll bring up the Edubuntu item on the mailing list
<sabdfl> ok. sladen put the https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubunet/+bug/375345 back on our agenda
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 375345 in ubuntu ""Ubuntu One" name creates confusion" [Medium,Confirmed]
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Bug 375345
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug 375345
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375345 in ubuntu ""Ubuntu One" name creates confusion" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375345
<dholbach> sladen_: are you around?
<sabdfl> i'm going to respond to the three comments on the bug that I think added good insight, and then close the bug
<dholbach> sabdfl: do you have the numbers of the comments handy?
<sabdfl> i'm disappointed we were not able to lift the conversation away from trademark and brand issues, which are not as interesting as the policy discussion around how such services can be congruent with Ubuntu's mission
<sabdfl> and how they could be jarring to it
<sabdfl> Raybuntu and D Lowe's comments
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> we could add it as an explicit agenda item for the next meeting and solicit feedback on the /talk page
<highvoltage> dholbach: hi
<dholbach> hey highvoltage
<dholbach> highvoltage: do you know if stgraber was going to raise "Edubuntu. Introducing Stephane Graber for EC approval, changes to LP teams. Community structure. " on the CC mailing list? or what the proposal was exactly?
<dholbach> if there's no concrete proposal, I'd bring it up over email
<highvoltage> dholbach: I'm familiar with the topics, it was decided to bring it up over e-mail since it was difficult to get everyone on to IRC at the same time
<dholbach> ok, I'll start the conversation later today
<highvoltage> thanks dholbach
<dholbach> I'm sorry it doesn't seem we get to discuss much today. :-(
<dholbach> I'm happy to start a few conversations and try to bring them up on the agenda in a clearer way for the next meeting
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:20.
<dholbach> thanks everybody :-/
<highvoltage> Just a question, was this a scheduled meeting? I didn't see it on UWN.
<dholbach> highvoltage: it was, I updated the agenda page and around 246246 people were notified of the change
<dholbach> but I realise it probably wasn't enough
<dholbach> next time I'll mail ubuntu-news-team too
<dholbach> thanks silbs1 and sabdfl
<sabdfl> thanks dholbach
<silbs1> thanks dholbach
<highvoltage> dholbach: many don't use google calendar so UWN is really useful for meeting times
<sabdfl> dholbach: maybe 246 only?
<sabdfl> it's wrong on the fridge, too
<czajkowski> highvoltage: I don't know I use the fridge cal adn import it to my google cal. only way I remember
<czajkowski> morning btw :)
<dholbach> sabdfl: probably :)
<dholbach> I'll do it properly the next time and add a comment to the agenda page too
<highvoltage> czajkowski: ah, great. I didn't realise the fridge calender was still maintained. Last I heard was that it was dropped in favour of Google calender. All is good then.
<popey> highvoltage: it is, but it's a calendar that people can maintain themselves, I don't believe the news team is the only group who can change it
<czajkowski> it's rather handy tbh. It's also the first place I check
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-14
<svqyqb> http://tinyurl.com/nkypfa
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
 * persia peers about
<TheMuso> No amachu yet.
<czajkowski> persia: aloha there
<persia> hey czajkowski
<freeflying> persia: hi dude
<persia> evening freeflying
<TheMuso> Doesn't appear amachu is even online yet.
<persia> Well, perhaps we oughtn't wait just on amachu.
<persia> elky, lifeless You about?
<lifeless> I am
<lifeless> and have been
<persia> That's 3.  We just need an elky or an amachu.
<lifeless> lifeless without : doesn't hightlight :P
<elky> o hai
<persia> Ah. good.  Despite the absence of our fearless leader, I believe we have quorum.
<persia> robert_ancell, You're up first.  Please introduce yourself.
<robert_ancell> ok, my name is Robert. I'm based in Sydney
<robert_ancell> I've been using Debian since ~2000 and Ubuntu since warty
<robert_ancell> I'm the gcalctool maintainer and a GNOME games developer
<robert_ancell> I've been working for Canonical for the last three months packaging and bugfixing gnome
<robert_ancell> And  I'm here to apply for Ubuntu membership
<lifeless> I'd like to note that we're the *community* membership board
<lifeless> so our assessment is going to be focusing on community contributions more than purely technical ones
<TheMuso> I've been thinking that starting out as a universe contributor, even though you aren't one technically, may be a better bet.
<persia> robert_ancell, Do you have contributions other than just bug triage and uploads?
<lifeless> if most of your stuff is technical, MOTU may be a better way to go
<robert_ancell> persia, that would be the majority of my contributions.
<persia> I think I'll agree with previous statements than that you would be better reviewed as a candidate for Contributing Developer
<robert_ancell> My main motivation for membership has been to get syndicated on Planet Ubuntu so I can better communicate with the community (I am currently on Planet GNOME)
<lifeless> robert_ancell: membership via MOTU is still membership
<lifeless> robert_ancell: and will permit that
<persia> And the MOTU Council is likely in a better position to review your integration with the developer segment of the community.
<lifeless> next ;)
<robert_ancell> ok, thanks
<persia> OK.  PmDematagoda, please introduce yourself.
<PmDematagoda> persia: well my name is Pramod Dematagoda
<PmDematagoda> persia: Im from Sri Lanka
<PmDematagoda> I just finished school
<PmDematagoda> been using Ubuntu since about 3 years ago if I remember correctly
<PmDematagoda> Ive mostly helped around with support on Ubuntu Forums, where I am a moderator
<PmDematagoda> Ive also helped on Launchpad, though not to a degree as great as Ive done on Ubuntu Forums
<PmDematagoda> and I also do help a little bit here and there in bug reports, testing and translations
<PmDematagoda> Im 18 years of age btw :)
<PmDematagoda> and my intentions are to start programming on Linux so that I may help the community even more
<PmDematagoda> Ive already gained a bit of experience on programming in C and using technologies like DBus and DeviceKit
<PmDematagoda> also I would like to help improve the situation of the usage of Linux here locally in Sri Lanka
<PmDematagoda> though I still have yet to establish connections with any LUGs as of yet
<PmDematagoda> and yeah, thats covers my introduction :)
<PmDematagoda> is any more required?
<persia> No, although we may have questions as we review the wiki page and other resources
<PmDematagoda> ah, ok :)
<persia> PmDematagoda, Your forums activity is fairly high (seems to overage > 10 posts a day for the past couple years).  Are there any particular areas of the forums in which you are more active, or any specific work you've done to help shape the forums or forum content?
<PmDematagoda> persia: well, in my beginning days, I used to frequent the Absolute Beginner Talk, General Help and Installation & Upgrades section
<PmDematagoda> but now I have also expanded into the Programming Talk section and the development sections too whenever I can
<PmDematagoda> about forum content, I have made a few how-tos and such, but they are not as much as the support Ive provided
<PmDematagoda> one how-to I created is the one on how to use Magic SysRq keys, although I havent updated that in a while
<PmDematagoda> and I think that is the only how-to Ive created..
<PmDematagoda> but I do take part in discussions where decisions need to be taken on certain issues in the forums
<elky> you seem to have learned alot since august 07 anyway
<PmDematagoda> that's in the staff forum, which is probably not visible :)
<PmDematagoda> elky: yeah, my interest in Linux really helped
<PmDematagoda> basically I was a Windows nut until my install got terrible, then I loaded up Ubuntu Feisty in the form of Ubuntu Ultimate and it really caught my attention
<TheMuso> Do you have anybody here to support your work at this meeting today?
<PmDematagoda> well, there is Pricey, nhandler, but they seem to be away
<persia> I'm +1 on the application.  Long history, testimonials from two current Ubuntu Members, member of Forums Staff.
<lifeless> +1 too
<elky> +1 three
<TheMuso> +1
<persia> Congratulations PmDematagoda, and welcome.
<PmDematagoda> persia: thank you very much :)
<freeflying> PmDematagoda: congrats
<PmDematagoda> everyone :)
<PmDematagoda> freeflying: thank you :)
<PmDematagoda> been waiting months for this, great feeling indeed :)
<persia> So, who volunteers to be acting secretary this week (update wiki page, do launchpad-fu, send mail, etc.)
<lifeless> great point persia. I volunteer you.
<lifeless> ;P
<lifeless> (If only cause its earlier in your evening)
<PmDematagoda> thank you again to all, damn, so happy :)
<persia> lifeless, OK (although it's only 06:53 here, so if it's evening, it's kinda late)
<lifeless> where are you atm?
<persia> Anything else anyone want to raise, or shall we meet again on the 28th?
<persia> lifeless, UTC-4 (although I'll be back to the lovely positive lands next week)
<lifeless> east coast?
<persia> right.
<lifeless> enjoy
<lifeless> and we'll let you go get brekkie
<persia> RIght then.  Adjourned.
<TheMuso> nothing to raise here, sorry, had to tend a sick family member.
<mcasadevall> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is mcasadevall.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mcasadevall> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090714
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090714
<mcasadevall> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<mcasadevall> Who's here?
<paulliu> Hi.
 * StevenK isn't
 * bjf waves
 * ogra stals StevenK's joke and stands
<ogra> *strands ... GAH
 * mcasadevall wants wubi on ARM
<mcasadevall> bahahahahhaha
<ogra> mcasadevall, only if you can test it under wine on arm :P
<mcasadevall> ogra, I could use winelib ...
 * ogra doubts that would work
<mcasadevall> ogra, you'd be suprised/scared
 * GrueMaster mumbles incoherently. 
<mcasadevall> lool, dyfet GrueMaster ping
<mcasadevall> ah
<mcasadevall> plars, ping
<StevenK> ogra: Fail
<dyfet> here
<plars> sorta here
<plars> at a conference also
<ogra> excuses excuses
<ogra> mcasadevall, read your calendar, lool is on holiday
<mcasadevall> Oh
<mcasadevall> alright then
<mcasadevall> lets get started
<plars> ogra: there's no excuse for me
<ogra> celebrating past countrywide violence
<mcasadevall> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<mcasadevall> [topic]#
<mcasadevall> NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic: #
<mcasadevall> c/o
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged]
<GrueMaster> co
<mcasadevall> well, that makes that easy
<mcasadevall> [topic] Specification review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification review
 * ogra suggests to sort by asignee
<mcasadevall> fine
<plars> good idea
<mcasadevall> [topic] paulliu's specifications
<MootBot> New Topic:  paulliu's specifications
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-unr-karmic-application-res
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-application-res
<StevenK> But what do I do for the other 99% of the meeting?
<paulliu> Good news is we have anjal packages now.
<ogra> waking up ?
<StevenK> Why, it's 11pm
<paulliu> But not much progress this week because I'm busy at moblin packaging.
<ogra> oh, i thought 6am :)
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-unr-karmic-connman
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-connman
<paulliu> Anjal solves many issues for evolution.
<ogra> but that was the other side of the world, i get it
<paulliu> connman - still testing with apps. Low progress.
<mcasadevall> [topic] GrueMaster's specifications
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster's specifications
<plars> paulliu: so is anjal going to happen?
<mcasadevall> [topic] karmic-lsb-compliance-testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  karmic-lsb-compliance-testing
<plars> paulliu: or are we still going to decide if that's going to be in UNR or not?
<paulliu> plars: I hope it can be happened. We just need to add some new API into webkit and evolution.
<GrueMaster> mcasadevall: slow down.  one topic at a time.
<plars> paulliu: what will replace the other functionality from evolution?
<plars> calendar, contacts, etc?
<plars> iirc, anjal is email component only, correct?
<paulliu> plars: Yes, it's only e-mail component.
<plars> or maybe that's a question coming up for GrueMaster :)
<ogra> seems to fit :)
<GrueMaster> karmic-lsb-compliance-testing:  Waiting on Alpha 3.  The testing only happens during iso testing.
<paulliu> plars: Other components have to find a replacement.
<mcasadevall> [topic] StevenK's specifications
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK's specifications
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-unr-karmic-wubi
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-wubi
<ogra> mcasadevall, ??
<ogra> you missed one from GrueMaster
<mcasadevall> ogra, its marked deferred
<GrueMaster> He always does.
<ogra> oh, why is it showing up on the list if its not for karmic
<ogra> hrm
<mcasadevall> If the specification isn't actually deferred, then someone needs to update the status :-/
<StevenK> -wubi is waiting for me to talk to the wubi guy
<GrueMaster> Talk to davidm.  He's the boss.  I just work here.  :D
<ogra> GrueMaster, is mobile-unr-karmic-applications actually dead for karmic ?
<StevenK> I know why the .disk/info parser breaks, and I have a patch
<ogra> davidm, ^^^ ?
<davidm> the spec is dead, if we have specific apps we need a spec for the apps
<ogra> ok
<GrueMaster> not that I know of.  Last I was told, pidgin is being swapped with Empathy, and there were a few other apps.  Banshee is still unknown, but looking doubtful.
<GrueMaster> ok
<ogra> GrueMaster, probably unsubscribe yourself as asignee then
<plars> sounds like we need one for anjal
<ogra> so it wont show up on the weekly list
<GrueMaster> done
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i guess lool will like if we keep the summary clean
<mcasadevall> [topic] plar
<MootBot> New Topic:  plar
<mcasadevall> [topic] plars's specifications
<MootBot> New Topic:  plars's specifications
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-unr-karmic-compliance-autotesting
<plars> I hit an issue with this
<plars> ldtp is currently broken in karmic
<ogra> use xautomation and scripts ?
<plars> there's a bug in for it currently
<plars> ogra: that's a possible backup plan, but would like to avoid it if at all possible
<ogra> yeah, its not beautoful indeed
<ogra> *baeutiful
<ogra> bah
 * ogra shuffles the keys on his kbd ...
<plars> next
<mcasadevall> [topic] NCommander's specifications
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander's specifications
<mcasadevall> [topic] karmic-marvell-desktop
<MootBot> New Topic:  karmic-marvell-desktop
<plars> oh
<ogra> ?
<mcasadevall> oh wow
<mcasadevall> sorry
<mcasadevall> [topic] plars's specifications
<MootBot> New Topic:  plars's specifications
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-qa-karmic-arm
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-qa-karmic-arm
 * ogra throws coffeebeans at mcasadevall 
 * mcasadevall falls over
 * ogra guesses thats blocked by not having images 
<plars> for the arm one, no progress this week, for the unr one, I didn't mark it started (forgot) but I did  do some checkbox tests for it this week
<plars> to cover things like unr processes, and start with some rudimentary tests for apps
<plars> done
<mcasadevall> [topic] ogra's specifications
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra's specifications
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-karmic-general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-karmic-general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
<ogra> still idling on that one
<ogra> so : not started
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-arm-karmic-subarches-in-debian-cd
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-subarches-in-debian-cd
<ogra> not started, waiting on uboot-imx which should be ready very soon thanks to mcasadevall
<ogra> beyond that i'd like to have prototyping ready for A3, even though we cant test it
<ogra> next ...
 * ogra twiddles tumbs 
 * ogra throws coffeebeans at mcasadevall 
<mcasadevall> sorry
<mcasadevall> LP being stupid
<mcasadevall> [topic] karmic-freescale-desktop
<MootBot> New Topic:  karmic-freescale-desktop
 * ogra throws coffeebeans at LP
<ogra> good progress as far as i can tel without kernel
<mcasadevall> On a second note uboot-imx was uploaded yesterday
<ogra> worked a lot on the ftbfs list which showed various issues with packages
<mcasadevall> (its sitting in the NEW queue)
<ogra> mcasadevall, ugh, with the broken synopsis and description ?
<ogra> and without the changes mentioned on revu ?
<ogra> anyway
<mcasadevall> ogra, not quite as bad as the verison on REVU, but I accidently left the "the Das"
<ogra> upstart wasnt building, we had massive issues with binutils
<mcasadevall> I can request a rejection and reupload if its a huge issue, else I'll fix it on the -0ubuntu2 upload
<ogra> lool and doko attacked both yesterday after i had poked around on them the whole weekend
<ogra> both appear to be fixed
<ogra> livefses for freescale images build
<ogra> still a lot of ftbfs issues
<ogra> still the timeout issues with various packages
 * bjf will be right back
<mcasadevall> ogra, the timeout was extended to 600 minutes
<ogra> (though the timeout on the buildd seems to have been bumped to 10h)
<mcasadevall> But it wasn't long enough for mesa. A few of the previously FTBFSing KDE packages however now build)
<ogra> which results in all buildds blocking for 10h
<ogra> until it times out again
<ogra> which in turn blocks package builds massively now
<ogra> so we should discuss dropping lzma on armel imho
<ogra> but thats for AOB ...
<mcasadevall> ogra, I don't think thats a proper solution to be honest
<ogra> done with freescale
<mcasadevall> AOB?
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-arm-karmic-easy-redboot-management
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-easy-redboot-management
<ogra> mcasadevall, please put "solution for armel builder delays" to the AOB section
<ogra> that spec might be obsolete with uboot
<mcasadevall> oh
 * mcasadevall didn't realize what AOB was
<ogra> given that we dont need any redboot tools anymore and all of rdboot goes into pure maintenance with the switch to uboot
<ogra> i'll discuss with davidm offline if it can be dropped, uboot has al necessary tools in the archive already
<ogra> next
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-arm-karmic-offline-installer-gui
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-offline-installer-gui
<ogra> good progress
 * bjf is back
<ogra> after the switch to project-rootstock i actually had commits and patches from users already
<ogra> working on a package
<ogra> and started fiddling with glade to get a good gui for the initial setup
<ogra> done :)
<mcasadevall> [topic] mcasadevall's specs
<MootBot> New Topic:  mcasadevall's specs
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-arm-karmic-softboot-loader
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-arm-karmic-softboot-loader
<mcasadevall> No progress
<mcasadevall> [topic] karmic-marvell-desktop
<MootBot> New Topic:  karmic-marvell-desktop
<mcasadevall> Got hardware, brought it up the u-boot prompt, and we got a source drop, which is now being merged into the kernel. Dep-wait on subarchies in d-i however. Still requires d-i porting
<ogra> is it being merged ?
<mcasadevall> ogra, what is?
<ogra> o thought all ressources are on the imx stuff
<ogra> kernel patches
<ogra> bjf, ^^^ ?
<mcasadevall> ogra, I believe the drop we got was .30
<ogra> mcasadevall, i just said that i thought marvell was waiting on imx51 to be done because everyone is busy with that
<ogra> no matter what the patch revision is :)
<bjf> ogra, I am working on getting a git repo setup for Marvell so they can push their patches into it
<ogra> right
<ogra> so nothing is being merged atm
<bjf> I believe the patch drop we got from Marvell was just a preliminary drop and not one they expected us to apply
<ogra> yeah
<bjf> ogra, that is correct
<ogra> thats what i ment
<ogra> we're in idle state there
<mcasadevall> Do we want to review the unassigned specs?
<ogra> beyond that the board spills segfaults across the board if you try to build anything on it
<bjf> i'm waiting on more info back from Marvell devs needed to setup their accounts and the git repo
<ogra> but the whole desktop works
 * ogra wishes for some better framebuffer modes in the driver so he doesnt need to use a second monitor
<mcasadevall> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<ogra> well :)
<ogra> what do we do with the armel buildds ?
<ogra> if you let three packages with the timeout issue build you essentially put out all buildds for 10h
<ogra> tonight someone gave back mesa which then blocked a full buildd for 10h
<mcasadevall> ogra, there was a long discussion with IS on this
 * mcasadevall did that *cough*
<ogra> i'm a bit scared we have someone giving back three at the same time
<ogra> which kills the buildfarm for us
<ogra> (at least for 10h)
<mcasadevall> *sigh*
<mcasadevall> THere isn't a great solution for this problem
<mcasadevall> I don't think we want to loose lzma compression though, even though image size is less of a concern for us than other architectures
<ogra> i cant belive that it takes mesa 10h to zip the ddebs
<mcasadevall> ogra, its the -dbgs, and it makes sense. If you have 100-200MB of binary debug symbols, its going to take ages to crunch down to 33MB
<ogra> i still doubt it is actually caused by lzma and would like to see deeper research from IS on whats actually happening
<mcasadevall> ogra, I can ask them to relook into it, but I setup launchpad-buildd on an ARM board, and ran a few of the failing builds myself
<mcasadevall> GIven enough time, they do succeed.
<ogra> yes, but we will run into issues with that
<ogra> blocking buildds for 10h or more (if we bump it even more) will definately get in our way
<mcasadevall> ogra, I realize that, but only a vast minority of builds will block and timeout like that
<ogra> have you looked at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ ?
<ogra> currently the whole of kde sits there
<mcasadevall> ogra, due to qt4-x11, yes :-/
<ogra> that will take us out of business for a week
<ogra> even if only half of the kde packages have the timeout issue
<mcasadevall> We're dealing with an architecture that is vastly underpowered unfortunately. I don't have a good solution on this one.
<mcasadevall> Even if we remove lzma compression, its a stopgap measure at best
<ogra> well, dropping lzma would be one
<mcasadevall> Maybe we need something like distlzma for armel :-P
<ogra> not a good one, not a beautiful one ... but it would get us back to jaunty buildspeed
<ogra> which was slow anyway already
<mcasadevall> If we're going to go that route, then I would like to see it be an official policy :-/
<ogra> i dont want to see openoffic being uploaded in the current state
<mcasadevall> (and then we modify debhelper(?) to ignore the lzma flag on ARM vs. having to edit every package)
<ogra> indeed, it would need a well thought out solution
<mcasadevall> offloading the lzma compression might be a viable solution
<ogra> i'm just saying that the current situation is bloking us
<mcasadevall> Not sure how IS will like it
<mcasadevall> ogra, no, I agree. the buildd timeout bump was a stopgap measure at best, it didn't solve the underlying problem
<ogra> i know there is HW coming for new buildds
<ogra> but its not sure when and how fast it will be there
<mcasadevall> Its slower in terms of raw muscle.
<ogra> 1GHz/512M
<ogra> pretty much the same
<mcasadevall> Oh
<ogra> but USB disks
<mcasadevall> I thought the boards we were looking at were 800Mhz
<mcasadevall> Yeah, now THAT is going to hurt
<ogra> anyway, we wont come to a conclusion now
<ogra> lets monitor the issue and put it on the agenda for next week
<mcasadevall> [action] ogra and NCommander to confer on lzma compression issues on armel buildds
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra and NCommander to confer on lzma compression issues on armel buildds
<mcasadevall> done
<ogra> i'd really like to hear lool about it
<mcasadevall> I'm going to end the meeting
 * mcasadevall looks left and right
<mcasadevall> Anyone have anything else?
<mcasadevall> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:56.
<cjwatson> mdz,Keybuk: TB?
<mdz> cjwatson: here
<mdz> whose turn is it to chair?
<mdz> (not me)
<Keybuk> mine I think
<mdz> we selected somebody at the end of the last meeting
<mdz> Keybuk: ok, all yours
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<Keybuk> #
<Keybuk> Developer application board (ScottJamesRemnant)
<mdz> Keybuk: mootbot?
<Keybuk> mdz: I can never drive the damned thing
<Keybuk> and spend half the meeting looking up its commands
<mdz> ok, if you prefer to email out the log, that's fine with me
<Keybuk> err, I don't keep logs ;)
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Keybuk> I can't seem to see minutes from the previous meeting?
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Developer application board (ScottJamesRemnant)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Developer application board (ScottJamesRemnant)
<Keybuk> Colin replied to my mail yesterday with a few suggestions for updates
<mdz> Keybuk: I emailed them to -devel-announce, want me to forward you a copy?
<Keybuk> mdz: ah, so you did, just not ubuntu-devel
<cjwatson> in my traditional "the meeting's tomorrow, hmm, what have I forgotten to do"
<Keybuk> mdz: did you have a chance to read through his proposed edits?
<mdz> Keybuk: I believe cjwatson and I have both supported the general proposal, and just made some suggestions regarding the details
<mdz> what has sabdfl said?
<Keybuk> indeed, I want to make sure we're all happy with the text
<Keybuk> mdz: "+1" was his only reply
<Keybuk> the next step would appear to be sending the mail to the Community Council
<Keybuk> for their rubber stamp
<cjwatson> were the edits I suggested OK, or do we want to adjust them a bit here?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I thought they were fine
<mdz> Keybuk: I haven't seen a complete, revised version of the text, but was OK with everything what has been proposed in the thread
<mdz> I'm happy for you to incorporate those bits and send it out
<Keybuk> mdz: the revised text would be my "Updated text" mail, with the suggested replacement paragraph from Colin
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> so we should send it to the CC
<Keybuk> I guess we should wait for them to acknowledge it, and give them a chance to object
<mdz> Keybuk: I don't see that mail
<cjwatson> CC motu-council, perhaps, to give them a chance to comment too?
<Keybuk> mdz: you _replied_ to that mail ;)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: indeed
<cjwatson> after all, the intent is that ultimately they will be directly affected
<mdz> weird, it's not in my received mail archive
<Keybuk> assuming there are no objections, we'll come back to this topic at the next meeting to enact the changes
<mdz> I only have "Developer application board"
<Keybuk> mdz: it's in that thread
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I think mdz means a complete, revised version *including* my replacement paragraph
<Keybuk> Date: 	Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:59:43 +0100
<cjwatson> but I don't think it matters if we are agreed anyway
<dholbach> motu-council@lists.ubuntu.com is a public list, dunno if that's your intent
<dholbach> is there any more details about the developer application board?
<Keybuk> dholbach: at this point, I think we're more than happy for our plans to be public :-)
<mdz> Keybuk: oh, I thought you meant a newer email entitled "Updated text". never mind.
<Keybuk> ok, so
<Keybuk> [ACTION] Keybuk to finalise text and send to CC and MOTU Council for review, objections and approval
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Keybuk to finalise text and send to CC and MOTU Council for review, objections and approval
<Keybuk> [AGREED] revisit at next meeting
<MootBot> AGREED received:  revisit at next meeting
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Archive reorganisation (ColinWatson)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Archive reorganisation (ColinWatson)
<cjwatson> the current steps on the plan are:
<cjwatson> (a) the developer application board (above)
<cjwatson> (b) the actual package set contents
<cjwatson> Keybuk and dholbach gave feedback on the sketch autogeneration I did
 * dholbach gave some confused comments. :-)
<cjwatson> I'm happy to look at splitting stuff out from core as time goes on but would like to get what I have into LP anyway, if there are no other objections to the general structure
<cjwatson> however, there is some temporary blockage on the LP side; the packageset table needs to be attached to distroseries
<cjwatson> I've had a phone call with Julian Edwards and others about that and they're taking action
<cjwatson> other than that, we are more or less ready to start interviewing developers whose permissions might want to change in the new world order
<cjwatson> dholbach: do you want me to start sending those out next week, given that you're on holiday?
<cjwatson> ideally, I would be able to CC the new developer application board :-)
<dholbach> cjwatson: that'd be great - if there's anything else I can help with (I know it's probably not going to be much), please let me know
<cjwatson> but from the above it looks like that will probably not quite be set up next week
<cjwatson> so I'll just direct replies to technical-board@, I think
<cjwatson> (https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Community/ArchiveReorgPlan/Preparation#Interview%20Mail)
<cjwatson> I'll edit that a bit to reflect the work I've done on defining the initial package sets
<mdz> cjwatson: so next steps are: DAB (as above), and get Launchpad ready
<cjwatson> mdz: do you have any feedback on the initial set layout I proposed?
<mdz> cjwatson: I didn't see it until today, so I haven't read it yet
<mdz> cjwatson: do you want my input before you proceed (modulo LP), or just to keep me informed?
<cjwatson> I'd like your input
<mdz> ok
<cjwatson> as a sanity check if nothing else
<mdz> I'll take an action to do that
<cjwatson> I have nothing else on this topic for this meeting
<mdz> Keybuk: ?
<Keybuk> [ACTION] mdz to provide input on proposed package sets
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to provide input on proposed package sets
<Keybuk> [ACTION] cjwatson to begin interviewing developers whose permissions might change
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to begin interviewing developers whose permissions might change
<Keybuk> that's right?
<cjwatson> yes
<Keybuk> great
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Patent policy (JonoBacon)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Patent policy (JonoBacon)
<Keybuk> jono: !
<jono> hey
<jono> I wanted to check in on the status of the patent policy with the TB
<jono> has this been finalized and approved?
<mdz> sabdfl: scrollback emailed
<mdz> jono: who have you received feedback from so far (or not)?
<mdz> I've lost track
<cjwatson> I gave feedback yesterday
<cjwatson> mostly approving but with some wording suggestions for change of emphasis
<jono> feedback from cjwatson mdz Keybuk
<Keybuk> jono: from that, it looked like mdz had a few text-related suggestions that could warrant a redraft
<Keybuk> likewise cjwatson?
<mdz> jono: I replied with some comments (24 Jun), including questions which I think still need answering
<jono> ok great
<mdz> jono: did you receive those OK?
<jono> are there any other topics regarding the policy that we would like to discuss here?
<jono> mdz, yes, sorry, my mail is a little jumbled after the GCDS
<mdz> ok, so action for jono to review and incorporate the feedback so far
<mdz> and also for sabdfl to review and give feedback
<jono> yep, I will have that ready for the next meeting
<mdz> jono: if you could send it by next Tuesday, then we will have time to review it so we can vote at the next meeting. is that workable?
<Keybuk> [ACTION] jono to update proposed patent policy text
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jono to update proposed patent policy text
<Keybuk> [ACTION] sabdfl to provide feedback
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sabdfl to provide feedback
<jono> mdz, sounds good
<Keybuk> ok, great
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Select a chair for the next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting
<Keybuk> cjwatson: looks like it's your turn ?
<Keybuk> however it does occur during Debconf
<cjwatson> my turn, yes
<Keybuk> ok, guess that's agreed ;)
<Keybuk> [AGREED] cjwatson will chair the next meeting
<MootBot> AGREED received:  cjwatson will chair the next meeting
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<Keybuk> (I didn't see any applications pending review)
<mdz> I have one item
<Keybuk> mdz: yup?
<mdz> I've been trying to facilitate getting a release manifest assembled
<mdz> for 9.10
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/ReleaseManifest
<mdz> which details exactly what the release deliverables are, who is responsible for them, where they will be hosted and served, where they are announced, etc.
<mdz> there are still quite a few question marks on it, and some things which aren't yet signed off (robbiew is helping)
<mdz> I'd like to solicit comment from the TB regarding the overall effort, and filling in any of the question marks
<cjwatson> I think I wrote the original draft of that so any question marks there are things I didn't know :-)
<mdz> and also to make folks aware that this exists as a tool for coordinating work
<sabdfl> the manifest is likely to grow a Moblin edition
<mdz> cjwatson: was putting the add-on back onto releases a conscious choice?
<sabdfl> alongside Xubuntu etc - cdimage, rather than releases.ubuntu.com
<Keybuk> it seems generally reasonable
<cjwatson> mdz: accident, I think
<cjwatson> that should say cdimage
<mdz> cjwatson: has there been a conversation between the server and release teams about how we'll get the AMIs onto EC2?
<cjwatson> or possibly the original draft predated that move
<mdz> will that be part of the publishing process or a separate manual step?
<mdz> cjwatson: agreed and edited
<cjwatson> mdz: soren is taking care of that independently, as far as I know, and has been working with the IS team
<cjwatson> given that they're built on a separate host, I explicitly don't want to have to indirect the publishing through antimony
<mdz> cjwatson: are you OK with that, or is it better to centralize as many of those steps as possible within the release team so we don't block?
<cjwatson> however, the last communication with the IS team was that the hostname would be ec2-image.ubuntu.com?
<cjwatson> so I think that needs to be changed in light of our last conversation on the subject?
<cjwatson> mdz: I'm OK with it, until such time as the image building is moved under the control of the cdimage team; I don't see a rush to do that
<mdz> cjwatson: I've asked that it be changed, yes (in fact I did so before that request went in, but the message didn't get to all the right folks)
<cjwatson> mdz: is that request in the form of an RT ticket?
<mdz> cjwatson: no
<mdz> just mail in the thread
<cjwatson> do we have a naming consensus, so that we can file a ticket?
<mdz> best suggestions so far were "uec" and "cloud"
<mdz> sabdfl: any preference?
<mdz> cjwatson: could you fill in the announcement column to reflect what we did for 9.04, as a starting point?
<cjwatson> ok, will do
<sabdfl> cloud
<sabdfl> would be my preference
<cjwatson> cloud-image.ubuntu.com, then?
<cjwatson> I'll ask soren to file that, as he also needs to change the actual image file names
<sabdfl> mdz is explaining the need for a separate domain to me
<mdz> see above: <cjwatson> given that they're built on a separate host, I explicitly don't want to have to indirect the publishing through antimony
<sabdfl> go with cloud-image, but please plan to consolidate the images around releases.ubuntu.com
<cjwatson> the need is that it is currently not integrated into the regular cdimage build setup and it is hard to do so in the short term because the build process requires root
<sabdfl> if we can't do that for 9.10 then fine, cloud-image. is ok
<mdz> sabdfl: what I've asked is that they are presented alongside the ISOs on www.ubuntu.com/download
<mdz> "I want server edition" -> "metal or cloud?" -> etc.
<cjwatson> I can also put a link on releases.ubuntu.com if necessary
<cjwatson> I agree that the separation is suboptimal
<sabdfl> we need to get that straightened out for 10.04
<mdz> the cloud bits are available on EC2 (here's a list of AMIs) or for UEC (here's a download)
<cjwatson> sabdfl: ack
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Tech Board membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  Tech Board membership
<Keybuk> my membership expires again shortly after the next meeting
<Keybuk> and mdz's membership expires as well
<Keybuk> at UDS, we discussed increasing the number
<Keybuk> sabdfl: ?
<sabdfl> aiee :-)
<sabdfl> on the CC we've decided to have a two-yearly election
<sabdfl> we want 12 candidates for 8 seats
<Keybuk> I would be in favour of the same system for the TB
<sabdfl> i'm happy to try that
<Keybuk> are candidates nominating themselves, or selected?
<sabdfl> dholbach is gathering nominations for the CC
<sabdfl> self, me, CC, others, nominations can come from anywhere
<Keybuk> sabdfl: can people self-nominate?
<sabdfl> Keybuk: sure
<dholbach> Keybuk: yes
<nhandler> Just a suggestion, it might be beneficial to hold off on any TB election until after the CC elections
<Keybuk> sabdfl: it seems appropriate that cjwatson should receive the nominations, as the only member whose seat is not about to expire?
<mdz> https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members
<sabdfl> +1, Keybuk, but how does cjwatson feel about that?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: ?
<cjwatson> I guess I'm OK with that, although presumably I would essentially be passing them straight over to sabdfl
<cjwatson> am I expected to do some vetting?
<sabdfl> no, we can do that in the TB
<cjwatson> and/or to actively go out seeking nominations?
<sabdfl> no
<Keybuk> could we not simply ask people to mail the nomination to the mailing list?
<cjwatson> nhandler: why? (I'm not opposed, just curious)
<Keybuk> what kind of numbers for the board should we target?  should we match the CC's 12 nominations for 8 seats?
<nhandler> cjwatson: It might cause an issue if for instance some person is only interested in serving on one council or the other. If they were to make it on the CC, they might not want to be on the TB
<Keybuk> nhandler: the CC and TB attract a very different kind of person, and are quite different in responsibility
<Keybuk> or should be aim for a smaller number (6 seats?)
<nhandler> Keybuk: The responsibilities are different, but I think some people could be qualified to serve on either of the councils
<cjwatson> nhandler: as the only person other than sabdfl who's ever sat on both (not concurrently!) I can see why that would be the case, but I think it's reasonable to ask people to choose
<mdz> sabdfl: your TB membership does not have an expiration date; is that intentional?
<cjwatson> think of it a different way - it would suck if you got onto the CC when you really wanted to work on the TB, only to find out that there were TB elections a month later :-)
<nhandler> cjwatson: I just think it would be easier for them to choose after knowing whether or not they make it on the CC
<sabdfl> mdz: yes, i don't mind stepping down if that's appropriate
<cjwatson> what's the expected timeframe for the CC elections?
<sabdfl> we set a six week schedule for the CC, iirc. dholbach?
<Keybuk> two weeks for nominations, four for voting?
<nhandler> Keybuk: There is a period in there for confirming nominations and generating the short list as well
<Keybuk> I'd say we should
<cjwatson> that would basically mean extending Keybuk and mdz's memberships by ... what, fourteen weeks or so?
<Keybuk> - announce for nominations today, received at the TB mailing list
<Keybuk> - receive nominations by the next TB meeting in two weeks time
<dholbach> sabdfl: what nhandler said - I'll send out an email about the exact schedule RSN
<Keybuk> - announce voting at the TB meeting after that (11/8)
<Keybuk> - announce membership at the TB meeting after that (25/8)
<Keybuk> does that sound reasonable?
<Keybuk> sabdfl, mdz, cjwatson?
<cjwatson> nhandler: TBH, I think the sort of person who would be flexible enough to actually serve (as opposed to just apply) for either the CC or the TB would be easily confirmed for either, and so having them choose up-front is in practice not much different
<sabdfl> Keybuk: +1
<cjwatson> perhaps we should mention it in the nomination papers though
<cjwatson> Keybuk: +1
<sabdfl> nhandler: i think it's a reasonable concern, but we're able to resolve it during the nominations gathering process
<mdz> Keybuk: seems a bit slow, but if it's the best we can do, I'm ok with it
<cjwatson> err, "announce membership"?
<cjwatson> as in that's the end of the vote?
<Keybuk> yes
<mdz> cjwatson: that's a 2 week voting period
<cjwatson> right. I'm OK with that
<Keybuk> two week nomination, two week deliberation and two week voting
<Keybuk> each one terminating before a TB meeting
<Keybuk> what about numbers?
<Keybuk> is 8 too large for the TB?
<Keybuk> we currently have 4 seats
<cjwatson> it'd be a bit of a shift in style, but I think 8 is at the upper end of OK
<mdz> that would mean 4 new slots
<Keybuk> cjwatson's expires in 2011
<Keybuk> Mark's does not expire
<cjwatson> more than that would run into committee syndrome I think
<mdz> I agree with cjwatson
<Keybuk> mine has long expired, and I have indicated that I would prefer to vacate my seat and nominate myself for re-election to give others a chance
<mdz> I think 6 would be sufficient, but definitely no more than 8
<Keybuk> and mdz's expires in a few weeks
<Keybuk> I think 6 sounds right
<cjwatson> compromise on 7? :-) I'd like to err on the slightly larger side if possible to allow room for more non-Canonical participation
<Keybuk> I'd be ok with 7
<cjwatson> sabdfl: ?
<persia> Is that 7 additional, or 7 total?
<sabdfl> i'm happy with 6 or 7, but not with growing quorum
<Keybuk> persia: total
<mdz> if we open up 4 seats, we will be obliged to fill 4 seats, and I think it would be difficult to identify, discuss and vote in that many qualified folks in one go
<sabdfl> i.e. if we grow the TB, let's not also make it harder to have quorum
<Keybuk> so we would be electing 5 seats, how many nominations should we accept?  8 sounds right for that number
<cjwatson> quorum is currently two isn't it?
<cjwatson> or do you mean growing the percentage?
<sabdfl> 2-3 would be fine
<Keybuk> mdz: what kind of numbers do you think are right?
<sabdfl> 4 would be difficult
<mdz> Keybuk: I suggest 6
<cjwatson> so how about total 6 quorum 3?
<mdz> quorum is currently 2
<cjwatson> atm we seem to have 3 pretty routinely
<mdz> I think 3/6 is reasonable, but would like to understand sabdfl's concern better
<cjwatson> so I *think* that would work out OK, although it would depend on timezones of the new members
<mdz> I have to go to another meeting in 60 seconds though
<cjwatson> we're lucky to have all the board members in the same timezone just now
<Keybuk> can I just confirm which seats are up?
<Keybuk> I know mine is
<Keybuk> I'm unsure as to whether mdz's is - or whether yours will auto-renew
<Keybuk> and I assume sabdfl's isn't?
<sabdfl> 3/6-7 would be fine for me too
<Keybuk> sounds like we agree on 6 seats with a Q of 3
<sabdfl> on the CC we put the whole lot up :-)
<mdz> Keybuk: mine is expiring according to LP
<Keybuk> sabdfl: it seems unfair to force cjwatson to be elected twice in the same year ;)
<cjwatson> I abstain from this debate :-)
<Keybuk> sabdfl: it's up to you, we're just about out of time
<mdz> Keybuk: agreed, I see no reason for cjwatson's term to be cut short
<Keybuk> and I think we should have a plan now
<sabdfl> i agree!
<Keybuk> sabdfl: will your seat be up for nomination or will you retain it?
<sabdfl> if you're all willing to stand for election, let's say cjwatson sits tight, and the rest is an open field
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> so that's 5 seats
<sabdfl> i'm thinking
<sabdfl> i don't mind stepping down, if that will help. i know that my daily involvement in the platform is limited
<sabdfl> if it's useful to have me on the TB, i'm happy to stay
<Keybuk> sabdfl: that is completely up to you
<sabdfl> alright, i'm delighted to appoint myself again ;-)
<cjwatson> (appoint or nominate?)
<Keybuk> (apologies to the server team)
<Keybuk> sabdfl: ?
<cjwatson> I think we'll have to cut short there; why don't we confirm the final details by mail?
<Keybuk> indeed, it sounds like there's some over-the-desk action happening
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:05.
<ttx> ok, who is here for the server team meeting ?
<alexm> o/
<Keybuk> ttx: apologies
<ttx> Keybuk: no problem !
<sommer> hey all
<Daviey> o/
<zoopster> o/
<ttx> Your regular host, the incredibly entertaining mathiaz, is stuck in another meeting.
<aruetten> o/
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<kirkland> o/
<pace_t_zulu> o/
<ttx> ok, let's go.
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:08. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> Last week minutes:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090707
<zul> hi
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<nealmcb> \o
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> I can't find any ACTION points in last week meeting minutes, so that should be short
<ttx> Unless someone has a comment about last week meeting ?
<pace_t_zulu> o/
<ttx> then... we should proceed to...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Roadmap
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap
<Daviey> The agenda is somewhat thin, no?
<ttx> Daviey: you can see through it.
<Daviey> :)
<ttx> Our Roadmap page still looks a little outdated and jaunty
<kirkland> jaundis?
<kirkland> oh, jaunty :-)
<ttx> We still need to have that discussion on how to best refresh it, but I prefer to have this discussion with mathiaz around, since he designed the current one
<ttx> so we'll pass.
<ttx> and replace that with kirkland's interesting topic from last week meeting...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Name one cool Ubuntu thing you did last week
<MootBot> New Topic:  Name one cool Ubuntu thing you did last week
<ttx> (an Ubuntu Server thing, pereferably)
<Daviey> "I went shopping and i bought a.."
<ttx> Daviey: 19U rack full of blades ?
 * sommer setup drbd in a soon-to-be-production environment (on hardy though)... it was cool to me anyway :)
<kirkland> ttx: I released PowerNap -- part of our cloud power management solution
 * alexm reviewed karmic serverguide section about monitoring
 * sommer cheers alexm
<RoAkSoAx> I've been testing Pacemaker-Heartbeat clusters and fixing a couple bugs, and I should be doing a call for testing :). After that I'll be preparing HowTo's on how to integrate it with DRBD :)
<ttx> ok, on my side, I took pictures of koalas during my vacation week.
<ttx> he definitely looked karmic.
<alexm> sommer: :-)
<ttx> and was eating fresh eucalyptus leaves.
<ttx> anyone else ?
 * alexm installed -proposed kvm-84 in jaunty
<ttx> alexm: great ! how did that go ?
<alexm> seems to be working fine for me
 * kirkland cheers alexm!
 * kirkland could really use help getting some verification on 4 bugs a jaunty-proposed kvm-84 fixes
<alexm> however, i couldn't provide much feedback on all the bugs listed by kirkland
<kirkland> alexm: verified one of them, thanks!
<kirkland> i need to move those 4 to verification-done, to get kvm-84 into hardy backports
<alexm> some of them are quite specific scenarios
<pace_t_zulu> i've been working on libposix
<pace_t_zulu> and i'm interested in packaging skia for ubuntu
<kirkland> unfortunately, i think most of my kvm testers are just happy running the kvm's i've been providing in ppa's
 * ttx looks up skia
<alexm> kirkland: there are a couple of reporters willing to test the -proposed ones next week or so
<ttx> pace_t_zulu: doesn't look like very server-ish
<pace_t_zulu> ttx: no it isn't
<ttx> ok, anyone else with cool stuff to report ?
<ttx> let's open the bar for general discussion then.
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> anyone has soething they want to bring up ? Or July is just too hot ?
<alexm> anyone attended to Gran Canaria Desktop Summit?
<ttx> alexm: nobody from the sever team, I think
<ttx> server, even
<kirkland> alexm: mdz did;  he wrote about it in his blog
<alexm> i'm not sure if there was any session server-related, being desktop summit
<alexm> i was just curious
<ttx> it is very desktop-focused.
<alexm> kirkland: thanks, i'll take a look
<Daviey> I can't help but think the server team should be more involved with SRU bugs related to server packages..
<Daviey> Bug #394696 is really "bugging" me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 394696 in apache2-mpm-itk "Please rebuild apache2-mpm-itk [Hardy] to handle updated apache source" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394696
<ttx> Daviey: excellent subject, thanks
<Daviey> and the motu-sru team is *three* people
<ttx> We definitely could do a better job at tracking server SRUs
<alexm> would it help having apache2-mpm-itk in main?
<ttx> tracking candidates and pushing accepted ones to completion
<Daviey> I don't think it really needs to be in main TBH
<Daviey> I think server *related* packages matter to the server team, no matter where they are..
<alexm> sure, good point
<ttx> I think discussion on server SRU tracking deserves some preparation and a full agenda point
<Daviey> ttx: agreed
<ttx> though for the particular bug you mention, it needs to be fixed asap
<ttx> Daviey: but it is blocked on motu-sru afaict
<Daviey> ttx: We should perhaps raise the discussion with motu(-sru) about how best to help aswell.
<ttx> Daviey: this bug could use a proper SRU request, though it's quite simple
<ttx> (step 2 in Procedure at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates)
<ttx> anyway, we cannot subsitute ourselves to motu-sru
<ttx> but tracking SRU candidates and having a regular server team meeting agenda point to review them, yes.
<ttx> ACTION: ttx to add SRU tracking to next meeting agenda
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to add SRU tracking to next meeting agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to add SRU tracking to next meeting agenda
<ttx> ivoks: o/
<ivoks> hi all
<Daviey> ttx: thanks
<pace_t_zulu> hi ivoks
<ttx> anything else someone wants to mention before we wrap up ?
<ivoks> doh...
<ogra> icecubes for everyone !
<ttx> ivoks: something you wanted to talk about ?
<ivoks> not really
<ttx> okay then
<ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<ttx> next week, same place, same time ?
<alexm> ok
<ttx> I think we have a reasonably good attendance with this timing.
<sommer> +1
<ivoks> and nothing else works... :)
<ttx> alright.
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:40.
<sommer> thanks ttx
<ttx> Thanks everyone
<pace_t_zulu> thanks for chairing ttx
<alexm> thank you all
<amitk> Hola everybody! We are about to start the kernel team meeting.
<amitk> Roll Call
 * bjf is here
 * jjohansen present
 * apw enters stage left
 * manjo waves his arm
 * smb enters right
 * cking_ here
 * apw crashes into smb
 * ogasawara waves
<amitk> I guess that's everybody
 * manjo insures himself against apw
<amitk> First of all, welcome ogasawara (officially now part of the kernel team)
 * manjo welcomes ogasawara 
<apw> \o/
<amitk> ogasawara has already been our QA champion for a while
<smb> \o
<cking_> horrah
 * jjohansen welcomes ogasawara
<amitk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:03. The chair is amitk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<amitk> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: "(apw) update status page for kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session"
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: "(apw) update status page for kernel-karmic-kernel-decision-session"
<apw> done i believe
<amitk> There was a related action for bjf to remove this from the list of blueprints that I've already done
<amitk> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: "(jjohansen) to issue AA pull request"
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: "(jjohansen) to issue AA pull request"
<jjohansen> done
<apw> yep, and its pulled into the current karmic kernel
<amitk> \o/
<amitk> moving onto the status of Karmic
<amitk> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<amitk> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<amitk> ogasawara, apw?
<ogasawara> Release meeting bugs and status are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogasawara> Currentely there are no RC Milestoned Bugs for Alpha3
<ogasawara> Release Targeted bugs are at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<amitk> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<ogasawara> I think those are at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-3
 * manjo goes to pick up fedex... board is here 
<amitk> [LINK] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-3
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-3
<amitk> Blueprints then...
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling
<ogasawara> Running the kernel arsenal scripts is showing good progress. . .
<ogasawara> Weekly summary: down 58 Open bugs, down 143 New bugs, up 42 Fix Released bugs
<ogasawara> I'm loosly tracking overall progress at http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/linux
<ogasawara> amitk: done
<amitk> ogasawara: should this be removed from the list of blueprints?
<apw> its starting to sound like the work is now 'business as usual' to me
<apw> and perhaps the general improvements can be reported in the bug stats section ?
<ogasawara> amitk: like apw said, it's more of a routine maintenance now
<ogasawara> amitk: so I say remove it and I'll report updates when needed
<apw> ogasawara, do we want to maek the blueprint complete too?
<apw> mark
<ogasawara> apw: let me review first to make sure it's complete
<amitk> [ACTION] (amitk) Remove Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling from list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (amitk) Remove Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling from list
<apw> ack
<amitk> [ACTION] (apw, ogasawara) Mark Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling as complete
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (apw, ogasawara) Mark Blueprints: kernel-karmic-bug-handling as complete
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop
<ogasawara> I've been following up with Abel re bug 338772 and bug 399319
<ogasawara> Abel and the Launchpad team are still working out the details for pushing the scripts to a central project repo
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338772 in checkbox "Data from `lshw` should be submitted to Launchpad" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338772
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 399319 in checkbox "Remove the HAL dependency from Launchpad HWDB and checkbox " [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/399319
<ogasawara> amitk: should hopefully know more next week about the project repo.  that's it for now.
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms
<apw> Karmic rebased to -rc3 which brings a slew of i915 updates for KMS.  ATI is still not supported in userspace.  Testing continues with x-edgers.
<amitk> Any idea if ATI support will appear before A4?
<apw> in userspace, not sure yet.  on my list to sync with them to find out
<bjf> apw, what's the story on Nvidia?
<apw> we're not expecting anything for nvidia for .31, nouveau is too new there
<apw> we are likely to offer it through x-edgers in the meantime
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts
<apw> that is rtg, i believe its not moved much since last week
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code
<smb> Ongoing, in rogress
<smb> progress even
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android
<amitk> bjf: know anything?
<bjf> stalled waiting on resources
<bjf> this is in cooloney's hands now and he's helping with imx51
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers
<apw> this one is on hold
<smb> I guess nothing new, yeah
<apw> pending resource being available when the rest of the tasks are done
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-ssd
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-ssd
<apw> i think that is complete from our point of view
<cking_> that's complete. I needed to send an Email around, I forgot :-(
<apw> i think i expected it going off the list this week
 * cking_ too
<apw> action that cking_ on it :)
<cking_> OK
<amitk> [ACTION] (cking) to send email about Blueprints: kernel-karmic-ssd
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (cking) to send email about Blueprints: kernel-karmic-ssd
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume
<amitk> manjo: ?
<manjo> nothing on that yet
<apw> he has been working on the review of ubuntu/ so that ones behind it
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi
<manjo> I will be doing a session on it in atlanta linux fest
<manjo> and at the sprint to see how kms works
<manjo> in karmic
<apw> i think that is rtg also, so not sure of wifi status
<manjo> wrt to suspend/resume
<amitk> ack manjo
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt
<amitk> that is stalled on me
<amitk> awaiting resources, that is
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-flavours
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-flavours
 * apw checks 
<smb> Isn' that already closed?
<amitk> it should be, but isn't marked on the Status page
<apw> amitk, action me to clean up the status page pls
<amitk> [ACTION] (apw) clean up status of Blueprints: kernel-karmic-flavours
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (apw) clean up status of Blueprints: kernel-karmic-flavours
<amitk> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-config-rework
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-config-rework
<amitk> This should be closed too
<apw> ok that one is officially complete
<apw> i need to get pete to sync the status into the blueprints
<bjf> amitk, that wasn't on the meeting agenda
<apw> will do that as part of the previous action
<amitk> bjf: I guess I didn't edit your mootbot runes correctly :)
<amitk> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: AppArmor
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: AppArmor
<amitk> jjohansen: great work!
<apw> the current karmic kernels contain this in a ready to test state
<jjohansen> :) can I sleep now ;)
<apw> some small regression remain and are being worked
<amitk> what is the upstream status?
<jjohansen> currently there is a regression in the clone test
<amitk> jjohansen: not yet, till we get this upstream ;-p
<jjohansen> darn
<amitk> has anything been posted to lkml?
<jjohansen> I haven't done anything with upstream yet, just focused on the regressions
<apw> i assume that we will be aiming to have it upstream in time for the kernel LL is cut from
<jjohansen> yes
<amitk> thanks jjohansen
<amitk> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale
<bjf> the saga continues, we are now getting support from Freescale so we hope to see some progress this week, manjo is the new man on the spot
<manjo> I built the bjf kernel
 * pgraner tags manjo and shouts your it!
<manjo> currenly building amitk 's kernel
<manjo> waiting on a board
<amitk> I've got a minimal imx51 kernel ported to 2.6.31-rc compiling
<smb> We need to decide one more thing and I get the topic branch into clean state
<manjo> and will check with anmar on a date & time I can be onsite
<bjf> lots of Jaunty SRU work going on as well w.r.t. imx51
<manjo> I talked to onsite rep and he is ready to go
<smb> err, wrong kernel I guess
<amitk> and this one uses the in-kernel file structure, APIs, etc.
<amitk> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Reintegrate Ports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Reintegrate Ports
<amitk> apw: can we mark this completed?
<apw> that one is complete.  we wanted to drop that one from the agenda
<amitk> done
<amitk> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Grub2
<amitk> same with this?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Grub2
<cking_> yep.
<apw> yep, thats complete
<amitk> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
<smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.77 (security)
<smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.55 (security)
<smb>             2.6.24-24.56 (proposed+security)[7] with 3/11 verifications
<smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.35 (security)
<smb>             2.6.27-14.36 (proposed+security)[7] with 5/24 verifications
<smb>             LRM 2.6.27-14.20 (proposed)[25] with 1/2 verifications.
<smb>             Verification for LRM should be complete now, but I just updated
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
<smb>             the report today.
<smb> * Jaunty:   2.6.28-13.45 (security)
<smb>             2.6.28-14.46 (proposed)[6] with 0/15 verifications
<smb>             LRM 2.6.28-14.18 (proposed)[6]
<smb>             LBM 2.6.28-14.15 (proposed)[6]
<smb>             LRM and LBM are rebuilds with bumped ABI, the kernel contains an
<smb>             import from upstream stable and should be tested well.
<amitk> efficient as always smb :)
<smb> I love to be :)
<amitk> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic
<apw> The karmic kernel is now rebased to 2.6.31-rc3 (2.6.31-3.19).  Carries a large DRM delta, and some ext4 patches.  Also carries aufs2 for testing.  Finally it carries AppArmour (disabled) for testing.
<amitk> Have we triggered a lot of kerneloops reports?
<cking_> how do we test AppArmour if it's disabled?
<jjohansen> use security=apparmor
<cking_> OK
<apw> not seen anyything specific for kernel oops
<amitk> curious about the uptake of alphas
<apw> we have a lot of people who were reporting bugs, and we are seeing a steep rise
<apw> in regression-potential bugs, so someone is testing
<apw> ogasawara, any feel for how much bug traffic we have?
<cking_> any particular kinds of regressions worth mentioning?
<smb> failed to boot?
<ogasawara> apw: http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/linux might give a rough idea
<apw> we've had a number of booting issues with specifici hardware, worst in -rc1
<apw> things are looking better, but still wobbly
<smb> also wireless and rfkill inparticular seemed to be an issue
<apw> yeah lots of fallout from the rfkill re-work ...
<amitk> Moving on...
<amitk> [TOPIC] Status: ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: ARM
<amitk> bjf: anything else to add?
<bjf> just more Jaunty SRU work being done
<amitk> [TOPIC] Status: Netbook
<bjf> more of Hugh's team getting involved (imx51 is really sucking up resources)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Netbook
<smb> I'd say we are close there for the first step
<smb> bug as bjf says there are more to come
<smb> but
<apw> netbook: we pushed and updated jaunty netbook tree for testing
<amitk> is OEM the primary customer?
<apw> we are moving to a specific flavour for netbook sometime this week, config issues allowing
<apw> there is likely to be a karmic one shortly also
<cking_> amitk, yep
<awe> apw: unlike last time, i'm going to push this version into our repo this afternoon...
<apw> awe excellent, let me know how it fairs
<awe> apw: so should have testing status for you next week
<apw> ack
<cking_> awe, that's good
<amitk> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions
<ogasawara> There were 5 regression-potential bugs added to the list this week and 1 regression-release.
<ogasawara> All have already been commented on by a member of the kernel team.
<ogasawara> As mentioned above, boot failures and rfkill types of issues
<apw> we are struggling a bit to cope with the bug load right now, with so much resoruce being sucked up
<amitk> and it will only get worse once we hit beta, I guess
 * apw shudders
<smb> As always any help is welcome ;-)
<amitk> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report
<manjo> also some drivers in staging might need to be moved to latest version... rt2x00 for instanace
<ogasawara> Bug day stats are as follows:
<ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Kernel Devs
<ogasawara> Fix Released    5 (â5)
<ogasawara> Fix Committed   0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Won't Fix   3 (â3)
<ogasawara> Invalid 5 (â5)
<ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (â0)
<ogasawara> In Progress 2 (â2)
<ogasawara> Incomplete  79 (â79)
<ogasawara> Triaged 21 (â10)
<ogasawara> Confirmed   25 (â10)
<ogasawara> New 80 (â74)
<ogasawara> Bug Day Stats - Community
<ogasawara> Fix Released    1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Fix Committed   0 (â0)
<ogasawara> Won't Fix   1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Invalid 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Reassigned  0 (â0)
<ogasawara> In Progress 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Incomplete  5 (â5)
<ogasawara> Triaged 40 (â10)
<ogasawara> Confirmed   0 (â0)
<ogasawara> New 1 (â1)
<ogasawara> Of course I want to give a big thank you to Andres Mujica and JFo for helping out last week!
<ogasawara> I'd also like to point out that JFo even tackled a list of 30 additional bugs I gave him.
<ogasawara> The next bug day will be next Tues 21 July.  We're going to target the backlog of bugs on the weekly kernel buglist.
<amitk> Thanks Andres and JFo
<apw> yep big thanks both
<amitk> Thanks ogasawara
<amitk> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<apw> i'd call that a no
<amitk> going once
<amitk> going twice..
<amitk> gone...
<apw> sold to the man in the hat
<amitk> Moving on to our favourite topic...
<amitk> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair Selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair Selection
<manjo> who is next on the list ?
<bjf> apw is next
<cking_> alphabetic?
<apw> i believe that its me
<apw> ack, should be ok for me next week
<manjo> are we going by irc nics ?
<amitk> [ACTION] (apw) is chair for next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (apw) is chair for next meeting
<amitk> That's all folks!
<amitk> Thank you
<amitk> And have a good day/night
<amitk> #endmeeting
<lieb> bye
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:42.
 * apw trips off stage right
 * smb follows
 * amitk stumbles off
<Kangarooo> @now
<Kangarooo> hello what date it is by ubuntu calendar?
<nhandler> 23:00 UTC Kangarooo
<bodhi_zazen> is everyone here ?
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:59. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bodhi_zazen> Agenda :
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-15
<bodhi_zazen> looks like you are up nhandler
<nhandler> A while ago, we decided to make #ubuntu-beginners-council +mz
<nhandler> This means that only voiced users can talk, and if you are unvoiced, only OPs can see what you say
<bodhi_zazen> indeed
<nhandler> This also results in non-voiced users who idle in there being unable to change their nicks
 * bodhi_zazen recalls being over ruled on that one =)
 * Rocket2DMn wasnt there for that one
<nhandler> Personally, I think +mz is not the best solution
<nhandler> I personally think we should make the channel invite only
<bodhi_zazen> well, unless the rest of the team wants to reconsider nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> that makes the vote
<bodhi_zazen> 2 against
<bodhi_zazen> and 100 for =)
<Rocket2DMn> I'm confused, how steep was the vote last time?
<bodhi_zazen> I think the channel should be open all the time
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Several BT members have complained over the last few weeks about being unable to change their nick if they idle there
<swoody> +1 nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> and we should +mz only for official business / meetings, if at all
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: I disagree. Why should our discussions about other members be open to the public?
<Silver_Fox_> +1 bodhi_zazen
<Rocket2DMn> Should anybody be idling in there other than counci lmembers?
<nhandler> Most other councils, the RMBs included have secret IRC channels and mailing lists that they use
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: IMO, no
<bodhi_zazen> why should we have a closed channel at all =)
<bodhi_zazen> I like open
<swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen :)
<Rocket2DMn> I don't think the channel should be closed, I just don't think people should be idling in there
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Because one of our main purposes is to deal with user conflicts, which by nature should be done privately
<Silver_Fox_> i have sat in on a council meeting.  i didn't say anything though it was nice to be there.
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: We could implement a policy similar to #ubuntu-ops, which is open, but there is a strict no idle policy
<nhandler> You can go there to report an issue, but once the issue has been addressed, you are required to part
<bodhi_zazen> I think the channel should be open, and closed as needed, which IMO is rare if at all
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: What are your feelings about a no-idle policy?
<bodhi_zazen> I feel I will be over ruled =)
<nhandler> That would allow people to report issues, but would avoid turning the issues into a "show"
<bodhi_zazen> Whatever you all wish is OK with me
<nhandler> Any other opinions on a no-idle policy?
<bodhi_zazen> I think we can manage most of the issues via moderation
<bodhi_zazen> ask people to leave if needed
<bodhi_zazen> or change teh channel to +m or what not if needed
<superbenny> agreed, bodhi_zazen
<Rocket2DMn> both options sounds ok to me
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: What is your reasoning behind wanting people to idle in the -council channel?
<bodhi_zazen> free as in freedom
<swoody> I agree bodhi_zazen. It doesn't seem like there's been enough 'wild action' in there to require it be closed all the time. I feel a nice open channel will be useful, but make it private the few times you're going to acutally need privacy.
<bodhi_zazen> I want people to feel they can come and discuss be a part of team decisions / actions
<tronyx> hmmm not enough people in here
<superbenny> hehe
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: That is what the no-idle policy would allow. Users who have an issue would be able to go there, and work with the council to resolve it. However, once the issue is handled, they are required to /part
<Silver_Fox_> i felt that when i attended bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> Why should it be closed all the time ? Just because we occasionally need privacy ?
<bodhi_zazen> It should be moderated if there is a problem or issue, not cloesd
<bodhi_zazen> and it is hard to tell sometimes who is involved in an issue
<Silver_Fox_> is full closure heavy handed?
<bodhi_zazen> anyone who is interested can pipe in , witnesses if needed to behavior
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: You can usually tell who is directly involved and should be involved in the discussion
<bodhi_zazen> I think we loose something if the channel is closed
<nhandler> They will usually be the ones coming to the council with the issue
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: The channel would not be closed
<Rocket2DMn> It seems like most people are in favor of leaving the channel open
<dvz-> o/ what channel?
<nhandler> It would actually be more open than it is now
<nhandler> #ubuntu-beginners-council
<paultag> I think the Council channel should be Open. The issue is that we need a transparent leadership
<superbenny> honestly, what is really discussed that is so secretive? i feel like the whole point is an open discussion area where people who have something to contribute are able to
<paultag> +1 superbenny
<paultag> The issue is really respect of someone who breaks the rules. We don't want to cause issues with reputation
<paultag> The best solution to that is to handle most matters over PM
<swoody> +1 paultag
<paultag> If the issue is at the Council, it is a big issue and the team should be involved
<bodhi_zazen> The channel feel closed to me if it is +mz and I am an op =)
<nhandler> Nobody is saying "secret". All decissions would be made public. But if we are discussing a user's actions, I don't think that non-involved people need to be watching
<paultag> nhandler, ^
<superbenny> this is true, but that's where moderation comes in. we have focus groups devoted to IRC, why not let them do their job?
<Silver_Fox_> are the logs for the council meetings available?
<nhandler> paultag: With the no-idle policy, people who are actively involved in the issue would be able to participate
<paultag> nhandler, I understand that
<nhandler> The whole idea is to get rid of the people who simply idle in there and watch
<paultag> nhandler, but if it hits council, it's a team move. Any team member should be allowed to idle
<bodhi_zazen> why do idlers bother you nhandler ?
<nhandler> This would also be more in line with what almost all other Ubuntu councils do
<paultag> nhandler, we are a small team. We can still involve everyone
<superbenny> nhandler, if its going to be made public anyway, why keep it secret for a couple extra minutes? if something sensitive is being discussed, +m so that only people involved can talk, but eventually, the logs are out there anyway.
<superbenny> +1, paultag
<paultag> We don't need the  MOTU council
<paultag> that would hurt us a lot
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Because the users there are watching for entertainment. A good number of them have no interest in working towards a solution
<Silver_Fox_> unless the logs are edited via snips
<nhandler> paultag: The MC is actually pretty open
<bodhi_zazen> Ah I see
<paultag> nhandler, I take that back. Whatever councils you talk about then.
<swoody> -1 on the idlers nhandler. There are a lot of team members who like to see what goes on behind the curtain. Having an open channel for council will show members who are curious just how the Council works, and if they feel that would be something they would like to pursue in the future.
<Rocket2DMn> It's an #ubuntu channel - doesn't that mean the logs are posted directly online?
<bodhi_zazen> Well, I am not sure about that nhandler
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: But for instance, the CC has a private mailing list, so does the TB
<nhandler> #ubuntu-ops has a no-idle policy
<bodhi_zazen> I think most of the idlers are interested in leadersip
<nhandler> the RMBs have private lists and irc channels
<superbenny> editing logs would go against the whole idea of open-source. nothing that we discuss is that life-changing, that it needs to be kept top-secret.
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: If you look at the logs for our last few discussions, that is not the case
<bodhi_zazen> either learning by watching or wanting to be a part of the team, I could be wrong
<nhandler> superbenny: Nobody mentioned editing logs
<Silver_Fox_> are we #ubuntu-ops ?  why do we want to emulate them?
<bodhi_zazen> and I have never seen anyone take an issue out of the channel and mis use the information
<superbenny> nhandler, <Silver_Fox_> unless the logs are edited via snips
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_: We are an Ubuntu Council, so we should be learning from councils like the CC
<nhandler> superbenny: But nobody said that we would be ;)
<paultag> I disagree. I think we need leadership that fits our model
<superbenny> fair enough
<superbenny> +1 paultag
<nhandler> paultag: So if we were discussing your poor behavior, you would be fine with everyone watching?
<tronyx> i agree with paultag
<paultag> nhandler, any team member should be able to contribute to the discussion about my poor behavior, yes
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, I think this discussion is wearing out.  Are there written guidelines about how Ubuntu Councils should use their resources? If not, I think we can look at other councils, but we don't need to do what they do - we are capable of figuring out what is best for us specifically
<nhandler> paultag: Contribute is one thing, but should they all be able to sit and watch
<paultag> nhandler, sure
<tronyx> imho if it were my poor behavior or paultag's behavior and it is impacting the whole team, everyone is already effected so everyone should be aware of the resolution
<paultag> nhandler, any team member is directly affected by my behavior
<superbenny> nhandler, honestly, thats part of the punishment.
<nhandler> paultag: In that case, I don't think we should have a -council at all
<superbenny> besides, the logs will be made public anyway
<nhandler> Just do it all in the main IRC channel
<paultag> nhandler, I disagree with that
<paultag> nhandler, I think the council is a quiet corner to do that in
<swoody> nhandler:  I believe paultag mentioned about using PM's before. I feel that anything that is not severe enough should be public, and for those things which are too much for a public channel can be expressed via PM
<paultag> +1 swoody
<superbenny> +1 swoody
<paultag> I always handle issues over PM before they hit council
<nhandler> swoody: PMs are only for 1 on 1, not a group chat
<superbenny> right, but why make it a group chat if someone just needs a warning?
<nhandler> paultag: If everyone is idling in there and "participating" it is not any more quiet than the main channel
<paultag> I say we defer this
<bodhi_zazen> I think nhandler has a point, but ...
<bodhi_zazen> only to a point
<swoody> nhandler:  well as bodhi_zazen also suggested, maybe that would be the time to use moderation power to make the #council channel more private
<paultag> OK, we have a lot to talk about. Lets do this later with the whole team
<nhandler> swoody: That doesn't make it any more private
<paultag> this is not the place to argue, this is the meeting. Let's hit the ML
<Rocket2DMn> no paultag , lets settle this now
<bodhi_zazen> I do believe there are times when the channel will need to be closed
<nhandler> paultag: I am ok with that
<paultag> Rocket2DMn, I think we need to talk about it more
<Rocket2DMn> this is a team meeting
<paultag> Rocket2DMn, we are ill-prepared for it
<nhandler> I have to run to dinner anyway
<bodhi_zazen> outside of those times, unless there is a good reason, leave it open would be my 2c
<Rocket2DMn> alright, whatever
<swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen
<tronyx> may i interject? i never say much during the meetings
<Rocket2DMn> shall we take off the +mc for now?
<bodhi_zazen> yes tronyx
 * tronyx begins typing
<bodhi_zazen> no Rocket2DMn
<bodhi_zazen> I think we need to use the meeting time to discuss these issues
<bodhi_zazen> we are all here ;)
<bodhi_zazen> ml == borring
<tronyx> there is a lot to be said for the council channel and just who can be in there.  i know this isn't 'our' channel and the CoC applies but for those of you who know me, you know what i am getting at
<swoody> heh, +1 bodhi_zazen
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, it's on the Wiki :P the Meetings are not for arguing about the issue
<swoody> it allows us to explore more ideas in a few seconds of real-time chat, that a few dozen emails spread out over days
<tronyx> simply put, if you are an asshole, it effects all users in ubuntuforums-beginners.  if your behavior effects the whole team, than you had better be prepared for everyone to know about it
 * bodhi_zazen edits the wiki
<Silver_Fox_> can i make a request on a new topic?  if time allows
<tronyx> and it may also provide incentive for people to act like adults and part of the communityh
<bodhi_zazen> yes Silver_Fox_ :)
<tronyx> let's take montel for example, i am sure his expulsion was addressed in private, but before there, it effected us all
<paultag> It was
<paultag> I talked in PM a lot
<paultag> it was only a last resort to involve Council, and then the team
<tronyx> eventually we all know/knew what happened and that is that.  but it effected everyone
<tronyx> i think that if someone is going to contribute, be active and be productive, they have just as much of a place on the 'council' as anyone else
<bodhi_zazen> Let us take a non-binding vote, to see what the consensus is, and move teh discussion to ML
<bodhi_zazen> then move to another topic ?
<paultag> +1
<Silver_Fox_> sounds good to me bodhi_zazen
<superbenny> +1 bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]Should the #ubuntu-beginners-council be +mz +1 = yes ; -1 = open channel
<MootBot> Please vote on: Should the #ubuntu-beginners-council be +mz +1 = yes ; -1 = open channel.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<paultag> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from paultag. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<Silver_Fox_> -1
<dvz-> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Silver_Fox_. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<MootBot> -1 received from dvz-. 0 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -4
<swoody> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from swoody. 0 for, 5 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -5
<drs305> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from drs305. 0 for, 6 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -6
<MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 0 for, 7 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now -7
<TuxPurple> -1
<tronyx> -1
<superbenny> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from tronyx. 0 for, 8 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -8
<MootBot> -1 received from superbenny. 0 for, 9 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -9
<MootBot> -1 received from TuxPurple. 0 for, 10 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -10
<bodhi_zazen> Any additional votes ?
 * bodhi_zazen notes nhandler is probably +1
<swoody> well I feel that about sums it up right there :)
<Silver_Fox_> what about rocket?
<superbenny> agreed, swoody
<Rocket2DMn> i vote privately
<superbenny> hehe
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 10 against. 0 abstained. Total: -10
<superbenny> more -9 with nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> [IDEA]No more +mz on #ubuntu-beginners-council
<MootBot> IDEA received: No more +mz on #ubuntu-beginners-council
<bodhi_zazen> [ACTION}Council to discuss opening channel
<MootBot> ACTION received: [ACTION}Council to discuss opening channel
<bodhi_zazen> Silver_Fox_: did you have a topic ?
<Silver_Fox_> minor thing,  more of a request
<Silver_Fox_> bodhi_zazen, ^
<bodhi_zazen> OK, go for it ;)
<Silver_Fox_> I would like to request that agenda items not go up less than 5 minutes prior to meeting starting
<Silver_Fox_> it doesn't seem organised
<bodhi_zazen> indeed
<Rocket2DMn> Silver_Fox_, items are supposed to be on the agenda in advance, but we didnt have many items today
<dvz-> o/ bodhi_zazen i have a topic but i think it may have to wait..in luie of Silver_Fox_ topic
<dvz-> lol
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]"Do something"
<MootBot> New Topic: "Do something"
<swoody> +1 Silver_Fox_ although I feel that's more of a personal thing, and someone who has a topic they want to add should just wait to put it on the next meeting's agenda
<bodhi_zazen> this is sort of an old topic, from last time
<bodhi_zazen> paultag: poke =)
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, hola
<bodhi_zazen> there was a discussion on the council / leadership / assigning tasks to those who need assignments
<bodhi_zazen> something like that
<paultag> Yes indeed
<bodhi_zazen> go paultag =)
 * paultag starts
<superbenny> really sorry guys, i need to run and make dinner. i might be back by the end of the meeting.
<paultag> The idea here is really one from the ( now MIA ) JoshuaRL and myself
<paultag> We wanted to create a system, a "pipeline" if you will from the UBT to the wider community. We would have tasks that would help the wider community, and track them with new members, or members who would want to use the system. NOT required, just a helpful structure
<paultag> Any ideas, questions, concerns>
<paultag> s/>/?/
<paultag> This system would work in tandem with the Focus Groups
<bodhi_zazen> I think it would be a good idea, you willing to maintain such a list ?
<Silver_Fox_> track them how paultag ?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, yes. I am undergoing the task of figuring out how to track them
<bodhi_zazen> If so, I would suggest we start it and see how it works out
<swoody> paultag:  How would this tracking system be setup? What exactly would you use to list the assingments that need to be done?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, We were using LP, but it is not proving fruitful
<bodhi_zazen> Well, that may be a problem paultag :)
<paultag> swoody, that is up to discussion by anyone who would like to contribute. I thought it like a bug tracking system
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, Well, I Have a workaround
<bodhi_zazen> linky ?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, LP OpenID Auth'd homebrew tracker
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, It's almost done. I was going to test it
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, active version is here: http://whube.com
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, it's not working well yet, and that is outdated.
<bodhi_zazen> Well, let us see how it goes then
<paultag> Anyone interested in helping?
<bodhi_zazen> may I suggest you start with either a forms thread or wiki page ?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, I'll start a Wiki
<bodhi_zazen> and transition to whube.com when ready ?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, Sure. that is just my sandbox for now, perhaps a btdev subdomain down the line?
<bodhi_zazen> along these lines, paultag, ...
<Silver_Fox_> paultag,  i will help
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, I mean, ufbt*
<paultag> Silver_Fox_, thank you :)
<bodhi_zazen> Are there any suggestions on what the team would like to see in terms of leadership ?
<Silver_Fox_> it is no trouble paultag ,  you know that ;)
<dvz-> bodhi_zazen: leadership in what capacity and to what topic?
<bodhi_zazen> yes paultag that domain is open
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, ok, outstanding :)
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, also, if I have the floor RE administration, I have a topic
<bodhi_zazen> dvz-: there has been some quite discussions in dark corners about having the leadership of this team 'do more"
<bodhi_zazen> and I am looking for input / advice
<bodhi_zazen> if it is on topic paultag , please
<paultag> OK
<paultag> ajmorris has been AFK for the last months -- Silver_Fox_ has stepped up on the IRC team to be an interm leader. I am looking for team advice on how we should handle a member who dropped off the face
<paultag> I would like to see Silver_Fox_ take on aj's role, but I don't want to get rid of him without talking to him
<bodhi_zazen> exactly as you said paultag
<bodhi_zazen> find a willing replacement
<dvz-> paultag: I believe AJ had resigned from his roles and made mention of leaving prior to
<nhandler> paultag: Members who let their membership on LP expire are de-voiced, and are technically not BT members until they show up again
<paultag> dvz-, OK
<bodhi_zazen> I would think council discussion / action
<paultag> nhandler, ok, thank you
<Silver_Fox_> i am a willing replacement
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, OK, so then with the team's blessing, Moving Silver_Fox_ to IRC Co-Lead
<bodhi_zazen> what nhandler said
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, I am requesting it, and Silver_Fox_ is willing
<bodhi_zazen> I have devoiced a few people in the past few days
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Anyone other than st33med and ajmorris?
<bodhi_zazen> not to me mean, but rather to keep team / voice membership "up to date" if you will
<bodhi_zazen> yes nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> overdrank
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Silver_Fox_ to be IRC co-lead ?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Silver_Fox_ to be IRC co-lead ?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<dvz-> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<bodhi_zazen> I think FG leads should if at all  possible be team decisions
<drs305> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 6 for, 0 against, 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<bodhi_zazen> any additional votes ?
<TuxPurple> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from TuxPurple. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 8 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 8
<bodhi_zazen> [AGREED] Silver_Fox_ to co-lead the IRC group
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Silver_Fox_ to co-lead the IRC group
<Silver_Fox_> thank you everyone
<paultag> thank you Silver_Fox_ :)
<bodhi_zazen> I want to mention one thing b4 we move to new members
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/YNU/Conduct
<bodhi_zazen> The YNU FG !!!
<paultag> \o/
<jgoguen> \o/
<bodhi_zazen> I am very excited about this FG
<vorian> FG!!
<dvz-> o/
<Silver_Fox_> oh that ;)
<Silver_Fox_> \O/
<bodhi_zazen> I was going to name the group immature brats , but YNU seems better
<dvz-> i like immature brats.
<swoody> +! dvz-
<paultag> But then I would have to join :(
<bodhi_zazen> thank you to everyone for putting a team together
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Are you fine with people just editing that page, or do you want changes to go through the YNU FG ?
<bodhi_zazen> It is a wiki
<bodhi_zazen> we can always blacklist their IP or undo changes if we need =)
<nhandler> Just making sure, I see a few things I would like to change
<dvz-> speaking of teams...and before voting, bodhi_zazen - may i bring a last minute topic up for prediscussion?
<bodhi_zazen> sec dvz-
<dvz-> surely
<bodhi_zazen> the idea of the YNU FG is to help immature people fit better into first our team and ultimately into the greater Ubuntu Community
<bodhi_zazen> many of these people require a little time an patience, but then are awesome
<jgoguen> nhandler: I threw that page together quickly using ESR's ramblings and my experience as references, please do clean it up :)
<bodhi_zazen> If not, root them out fast
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<Silver_Fox_> I like the term nurture
<bodhi_zazen> like he who shall remain nameless less we awaken his bot army
<jgoguen> lol
<bodhi_zazen> OK dvz- you are up =)
<dvz-> for IRC trend for the beginners team is currently #ubuntu-beginners(-FG).   we seem to have quite a few people going to -beginners for help questions..and then we redirect them to -beginners-help.   the team is, in fact, like a big fg - so why not create a channel #ubuntu-beginners-team  and use #ubuntu-beginners  as the new -help channel?  i think the current team channel is a tad misleading.
<bodhi_zazen> Aggg !
<Silver_Fox_> can we not rename #ubuntu-beginners-help
<bodhi_zazen> I would have to re-do all the access list, 70 something :)
<dvz-> i first joined #ubuntuforums-beginners because i thought it was a channel for beginners to ask help questions in
<bodhi_zazen> I am OK with moving, it is not a bad idea
<bodhi_zazen> on the other hand, I am OK with new users wandering in as well, kind of makes the channel, well, interesting
<Rocket2DMn> -1 on moving, a few people wandering in isnt bad
<Rocket2DMn> besides, they are finding people who know whats up
<bodhi_zazen> if it is a huge support question, move the discussion to -help ?
<swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen
<dvz-> sure, but then why are we telling them to go to a help channel when we can keep the people who are currently in -beginners there and just almost duplicate it in -team...if members are so concerned about redirecting help questions
<bodhi_zazen> shall we vote on that ?
<dvz-> i like that idea bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> Well dvz-
<nhandler> I think it is a good thing that users are landing in the main team channel.
<bodhi_zazen> short help questions are fine
<nhandler> We can then point them to the correct location for their questions
<paultag> I'll BRB. I am voting +0
<swoody> I feel anyone who may wander into #u-b should be directed to #u-b-h
<Rocket2DMn> the same thing happens in every ubuntu channel ive ever been in, people inevitably wander in
<bodhi_zazen> but long discussions on iptables or other esoteric questions posting config files to pastebin deserve privacy =)
<dvz-> wandering is fine...but rather than wandering into a channel you think is a help channel and then being redirected to another channel with less users...i think it's counterproductive at times.
<bodhi_zazen> +1 dvz-
<Silver_Fox_> it happened with Kangarooo earlier
<bodhi_zazen> so if they ask or need support , dish it out ;)
<bodhi_zazen> if the discussion is getting long, move it
<dvz-> +1 bodhi_zazen
<swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> if we get a ton of counter productive traffic we can move
<bodhi_zazen> most people do not mind moving to another channel for support, at least in my experience
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Should we move to -team ?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Should we move to -team ?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<dvz-> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from dvz-. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<Rocket2DMn> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Rocket2DMn. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
<bodhi_zazen> any more votes ?
<bodhi_zazen> hehehe
<Silver_Fox_> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Silver_Fox_. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
<Snova> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Snova. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
<TuxPurple> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from TuxPurple. 0 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -4
<swoody> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from swoody. 0 for, 5 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -5
<drs305> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 0 for, 5 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -5
<jgoguen> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from jgoguen. 0 for, 6 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -6
<bodhi_zazen> any more votes ?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 6 against. 3 abstained. Total: -6
<bodhi_zazen> shall we do
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New Members
<MootBot> New Topic: New Members
<paultag> Oh!
<dvz-> i don't know much of him to give much of a rundown
<paultag> I am here, can we do Wiebelhaus quick?
<paultag> I need to cook, and I am just about to get up
<paultag> ( sorry for breaking protocol here )
<bodhi_zazen> yes paultag
<bodhi_zazen> is Wiebelhaus here ?
<paultag> Wiebelhaus is not here right now, but most of you know him pretty well. I think he is a damn fine member, and worthy of the team :)
<Silver_Fox_> no
<jgoguen> Not in here
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, it's been about two meetings he has been up for it
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, can we do a absentee vote?
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Wiebelhaus for membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Wiebelhaus for membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<dvz-> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<drs305> +1
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Silver_Fox_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Silver_Fox_. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Snova> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Snova. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6
<bodhi_zazen> any additional votes ?
<paultag> I think that's it
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 6
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, Thank you for making that exception -- and on that note I am off, time too cook :)
<bodhi_zazen> np
<bodhi_zazen> anyone want to speak / vote on leoquant ?
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=155157
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=155157
<bodhi_zazen> Silver_Fox_: you wish to speak ?
<bodhi_zazen> I know leoquant from the forums
<Silver_Fox_> bodhi_zazen,  no,  i am willing to vote
<bodhi_zazen> Ah , OK
<bodhi_zazen> leoquant is an ubuntu member and seems quite knowledgeable, IMO
<bodhi_zazen> let us vote, abstain to vote later ;)
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] leoquant for membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  leoquant for membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<drs305> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 1 for, 0 against, 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Snova> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Snova. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<TuxPurple> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from TuxPurple. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<bodhi_zazen> any additional votes ?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6
<bodhi_zazen> we are almost out of time
<bodhi_zazen> I have a general announcement that should interest most of the team
<bodhi_zazen> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1876
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1876
<bodhi_zazen> Any other topics or shall we end the meeting ?
<Rocket2DMn> We're over an hour, better end
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you all for coming and your contributions to both the team and Ubuntu
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:05.
<Silver_Fox_> i wish it was 19:05...not 01:05
<superbenny> aw shucks i just missed it
<Kangarooo> !logs > superbenny
<ubottu> superbenny, please see my private message
<superbenny> thank your Kangarooo
<Kangarooo> superbenny: also use command /topic to see topic . and in topic will be link to wiki with this meetings irc logs. maybe they will be later added but all history of all meeting can be found in wiki.ubuntu.com in correct pages/groups/teams
<Kangarooo> hello. now meeting yes ? now its 4.00 in latvia :) im gona go sleep after this
<bodhi_zazen> should be
<pleia2> just gathering the interested parties :)
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 20:03. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> Welcome to the Ubuntu Community Learning Project meeting
<pleia2> thanks for chairing, cprofitt :)
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<pleia2> ok, we're still stalled on licensing and haven't heard from canonical legal, did we decide to move forward with doctormo's contacts with lawyer people?
<cprofitt> I am not familiar with this...
<cprofitt> do you mean doctormo has lawyer people or will contact them directly?
<pleia2> 23:09 < doctormo> cprofitt, pleia2, greg-g, Vantrax|Work: Is it worth contacting the SFLC given that I already have a contact there?
<cprofitt> thanks... I guess I missed that...
<cprofitt> I am fine with that... but I am concerned with bodhi_zazen being comfortable with things
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen?
<bodhi_zazen> I have decided to remain neutral on licensing issues, so long as it is free, open, and not abused
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: I know you had some legal concerns which we want to make sure are address
<bodhi_zazen> I would rather put my energy into building content, developing the team, etc
 * pleia2 nods
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, is the issue of CC-BY-SA vs. CC-BY-SA-NC no longer an issue then?
<bodhi_zazen> I discussed my concerns outside of this team, thank you though pleia2
<bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: what has the rest of the team decided ? are we waiting for an opinion from Canonical ?
<cprofitt> No. Canonical was ok with what ever choice we made
<pleia2> we pretty much decided CC-BY-SA
<cprofitt> the rest of the team is settled on CC-BY-SA
<cprofitt> with no transfer of ownership
<bodhi_zazen> I do not have any problem with CC-BY-SA
<pleia2> \o/
<cprofitt> k
<cprofitt> then we are set to move forward with that
<bodhi_zazen> \o/
<pleia2> great :)
<cprofitt> [AGREED]license will be CC:BY-SA and authors will retain ownership of copyright
<MootBot> AGREED received: license will be CC:BY-SA and authors will retain ownership of copyright
<pleia2> if legal things do come up, it's nice to know we have avenues to get help :)
<bodhi_zazen> How is team structure going ?
<pleia2> so this long stall was not entirely unproductive
<bodhi_zazen> I saw a few requests to join the team in my in-box
<bodhi_zazen> did not know how to respond and was spending last night at Myah's birthday :)
<pleia2> I think we were supposed to add our thoughts to a wiki page and didn't :\
<cprofitt> we are, at this time, not accepting new members.
<bodhi_zazen> sounds right
<cprofitt> I do not think anyone has added their thoughts on structure
<bodhi_zazen> ooo, why not cprofitt ?
<bodhi_zazen> re: new members
<bodhi_zazen> we should at least invite them to our channel ?
<cprofitt> under what parameters would we accept them?
<cprofitt> I do not mind doing so...
<cprofitt> Vantrax, had wanted to be very selective
<cprofitt> I know we discussed the idea of making a 'beginners' level team
<cprofitt> and then having a 'advanced' or by invite only team
<cprofitt> but do not think we came to consensus
<bodhi_zazen> Ah, well, I think for now we need to know people wanting to join
<bodhi_zazen> and work on developing a team structure
 * pleia2 nods
<bodhi_zazen> I would adapt much of the BT structure to this team, but I am not sure if that is what we want
<bodhi_zazen> seems we need to define roles
<bodhi_zazen> people who develop content
<bodhi_zazen> people who teach
<bodhi_zazen> etc
<cprofitt> I agree...
<cprofitt> perhaps we need a UCLP - Board
<cprofitt> UCLP - Instructors
<cprofitt> UCLP - Curriculum
<cprofitt> UCLP - Testers
<cprofitt> or some such
<bodhi_zazen> yep
<pleia2> yeah
<bodhi_zazen> who is interested in developing a team structure ?
<cprofitt> should we make those teams... I had made some teams similar to that and Vantrax objected
<cprofitt> so I had the team deleted
<cprofitt> forget what it was
<bodhi_zazen> I suggest those interested discuss it in #ubuntu-learning and start on a wiki page
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: +1
<cprofitt> the wiki page is already there
<pleia2> where?
<pleia2> I forget :x
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Structure
<cprofitt> been there for close to a month now
<pleia2> right right
<bodhi_zazen> well, who is interested in developing a structure then ?
<bodhi_zazen> I would suggest a small group discuss and develop details and bring it back
<pleia2> I think cprofitt is on the right track
<bodhi_zazen> I can do it alone
<bodhi_zazen> if need be
<bodhi_zazen> but I did not want to take that task on without your blessing ;)
<cprofitt> I do not mind coming up with a structure either...
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: can you toss something together and then check back in channel in a couple days for input on progress?
<pleia2> maybe you and cprofitt
<bodhi_zazen> yes
<cprofitt> but I still think we need to either have the board 'vote' on the structure or 'vote' on saying that what we do is 'it'
<bodhi_zazen> I think that that will work
<bodhi_zazen> -1 cprofitt
<cprofitt> we actually have a quorom with just the three of us
<cprofitt> so we can do that tonight
<bodhi_zazen> I do not think we need to vote on the need for structure, just start developing it
<cprofitt> I agree with that bodhi_zazen
<pleia2> +1
<bodhi_zazen> once it is in place -> take comments -> adopt it
<cprofitt> so we develop... the board tweaks
<cprofitt> then we vote
<cprofitt> right?
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<cprofitt> I thought you were saying you would just develop it...
<cprofitt> sorry for my misunderstanding
<bodhi_zazen> Let me work on at least an outline
<cprofitt> k
<cprofitt> sounds good bodhi_zazen
 * pleia2 subscribes to that wiki page
<bodhi_zazen> I need some assistance with the roles on a moodle site
<cprofitt> you get the ball rolling...
<pleia2> so I can follow along! :)
<cprofitt> and I will run along side
<bodhi_zazen> I see Content contributors / theme , students, instructors, and admin as general categories
<cprofitt> not sure if we have students as a 'group'
<cprofitt> but other than that it looks good
<pleia2> I kind of like the idea of an open group too
<bodhi_zazen> OK, I will work on it
<cprofitt> k
<cprofitt> do we want an LP team for the board?
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: I think the general process would be
<bodhi_zazen> open group -> open to all.
<pleia2> cprofitt: we have one, and I think it's good (admin mailing list, especially)
<cprofitt> we have one...
<bodhi_zazen> Once we get to know people and their interests / strengths they can move to an appropriate group
<pleia2> yes, you're in it!
<cprofitt> ah... yes... we did make that...
 * cprofitt shakes head
<pleia2> cprofitt: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning-board
<bodhi_zazen> I think there is a consensus, misunderstanding, we are not trying to be exclusive at this point
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: right
<cprofitt> yes... I do not want to be exclusive
<bodhi_zazen> the idea is to provide structure and start developing team tasks
<cprofitt> I do think in the future there will be some teams similar to bug-control
<bodhi_zazen> OK
<cprofitt> that will be formed... and membership will be based on contribution
<cprofitt> but not now...
<cprofitt> is that your feeling as well pleia2 ?
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, ?
<bodhi_zazen> I personally like the general idea
<pleia2> cprofitt: yes
<cprofitt> ok
<bodhi_zazen> Open membership -> meet & greet -> as long as they are not a mutant they can be a member and contribute as they wish
<dantalizing> lol
 * dantalizing feels excluded
<bodhi_zazen> We then identify strengths and interests and encourage them to join a more specific group
 * pleia2 nods
 * pleia2 hugs dantalizing
<dantalizing> :)
<cprofitt> sorry dantalizing you are indeed a mutant
<bodhi_zazen> more of a process, the goal of encouraging involvement rather then idling in the channel
<cprofitt> but a warm and friendly mutant
<bodhi_zazen> AGGGG Mutant
<cprofitt> +1 bodhi_zazen encouraging
<cprofitt> any other topics?
<bodhi_zazen> yes
<bodhi_zazen> if I may
 * cprofitt nods
<bodhi_zazen> Any thoughts on moving the server ?
<pleia2> I think we should keep it hosted with you for now
<cprofitt> I think both have merits...
<pleia2> we can develop the site, get a good idea about what we need, if canonical really needs us to move it in the future we'll have a very good idea of precisely what we need from them
<bodhi_zazen> I like that plan pleia2
<cprofitt> but currently favor leaving it on your server... but want to keep the possibility of moving it to Canonical open
<cprofitt> if we feel we can get the content production to a stable state...
<cprofitt> moving it does become easier
 * pleia2 nods
<bodhi_zazen> OK, I would like to identify a second person to back me up on sys admin on the server
<bodhi_zazen> In the event I am say on vacation for example :)
<cprofitt> I am still too weak in the sys admin foo
<pleia2> I could help, but I think others volunteered?
<cprofitt> I would nominate Vantrax but he is not here
<cprofitt> so I would nominate pleia2 because she is here
<bodhi_zazen> yes, I can not recall who volunteered
<cprofitt> I thought Vantrax did
<Vantrax> i is kinda here
<bodhi_zazen> we do not need to decide today
<bodhi_zazen> but it is OK if we do
<Vantrax> its a bad week for me at work, we are deploying new hardware and lab images atm
<bodhi_zazen> Vantrax: would be ideal as he is in a different TZ and that helps with 24 / 7 / 365 coverage
<pleia2> I agree
<Vantrax> i dont mind doing it, just need to skill up a little:P Im sure bodhi can help
<bodhi_zazen> yes, or pleia2 can help as well, or the BT if I am not available
<pleia2> I can offer guidance too, due to time concerns I prefer offering help rather than being the actual sysadmin anyway ;)
<pleia2> so one other thought - announcing our project
<pleia2> do we hold off until after structure is decided?
<pleia2> I think once that's in place we plow ahead
<bodhi_zazen> Well, the good news, the server is set up and is for the most part on auto pilot
<pleia2> :)
<cprofitt> I would wait until we have structure... better defined
<bodhi_zazen> +1 pleia2
<cprofitt> perhaps we can announce once it is fairly well laid out...
<cprofitt> and not wait for an official approval
<pleia2> yep
<bodhi_zazen> I think once we announce we will get an influx, and to be honest we look bad if we can not direct those who need guidance ;)
<cprofitt> but my hope is that with bodhi_zazen's energy it will not take us that long to get it ironed out
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: right :)
<Vantrax> yay bodhi
<bodhi_zazen> Have you all seen doctormo's new venture ?
<cprofitt> no
<bodhi_zazen> http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/video-blog-entry-admin-introduction/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/video-blog-entry-admin-introduction/
<pleia2> yeah, very cool stuff :)
<pleia2> I think we'll be doing a similar thing here in Philly
<Vantrax> also very good for our project
<pleia2> actually an extension of our lug, teamed up with our loco
<pleia2> ok, anything else on the table?
<bodhi_zazen> o/
 * cprofitt nods to bodhi_zazen 
<bodhi_zazen> I know we are a renegade band, but ...
<bodhi_zazen> I think we might be able to draw from the BT
<Vantrax> were renegades?
 * Vantrax thinks its time to get some tats
<bodhi_zazen> I have not really discussed it with the BT much
<cprofitt> I think we can draw from BT and other teams...
<bodhi_zazen> just a thought
<pleia2> Vantrax: haha
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: yeah, once we get things announced I have some ideas for teams that can help (ubuntu-women for one, I know there are several women involved there who are interested in education)
<Vantrax> I think BT will be a resource we draw on, but also the wiki team/doc team, motu etc
<Vantrax> BT is just one you have pull over:P
<bodhi_zazen> indeed cprofitt , but the BT has really grown and they are so big they are getting , well, bored :)
<cprofitt> I think Bug Control as well.
<cprofitt> are you saying that BT can get involved -- as it already is -- or that you want to draw structure from it?
<pleia2> yeah, we have contacts on the main page of our wiki who I've already contacted
<cprofitt> I was still thinking along the lines of structure
<bodhi_zazen> We should work on establishing clear and consistent contacts with those teams as well
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: I think you were on that ?
<bodhi_zazen> how is that going ?
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: yep, I've contacted several teams and they're ready when we are for producing content
<bodhi_zazen> thanks for the update pleia2
<pleia2> so once we have structure and themed site, we will have folks who need logins for development of courses
<bodhi_zazen> do you have a contact list somewhere that I (and perhaps others) might be able to reference if needed ?
<bodhi_zazen> for contact people ?
<pleia2> it's on the main page of our wiki
<pleia2> "Affiliates & Key People"
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone see our test site recently ?
<bodhi_zazen> http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://learn.bodhizazen.net/moodle/
<cprofitt> yes
<cprofitt> it is looking good...
<cprofitt> just need to get the menus redone and the mouse over worked out...
<cprofitt> Vantrax, showed us this last week
<bodhi_zazen> I believe we have Vantrax to thank for that ?
<dantalizing> nice
<Vantrax> menu's and links acutally
<Vantrax> but thats all easy stuff
<Vantrax> we just need to decide what we want there
<Vantrax> the hard bit was redoing graphics:P
<Vantrax> and formatting
<Vantrax> doctormo is going to be helping work on finishing it up too
<Vantrax> i should have enough time to completely finish it this weekend
<pleia2> great :)
<bodhi_zazen> sweet
 * cprofitt nine minute check
<bodhi_zazen> any problems with the test server ?
<Vantrax> not that I know of
<Vantrax> Ive been trying to catch elmo to talk about what he was querying about the other day too
<Vantrax> hes hard to catch...
<bodhi_zazen> k thanks :)
<Vantrax> np bodhi_zazen
<Vantrax> also bodhi_zazen your nominated for CC
<bodhi_zazen> You have no idea how shocked I was to learn that Vantrax
<bodhi_zazen> I wonder who nominated me ?
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<pleia2> hehe
<bodhi_zazen> I understand that there are some other well qualified candidated
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, who?
<bodhi_zazen> *cough* pleia2 *cough*
<cprofitt> ah
<bodhi_zazen> !Vantrax
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about Vantrax
<cprofitt> well congrats -- it is well deserved and you have my support
<bodhi_zazen> Vantrax: Careful with that e-mail
<cprofitt> is this something we can be present for... or vote for...?
<pleia2> yeah Vantrax nominated both bodhi_zazen and myself
<pleia2> cprofitt: it'll be a vote
<pleia2> all ubuntu members can vote
<bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: no, pleia2 did not nominate me , pleia2 was nominated for the CC
<cprofitt> oh...
<cprofitt> well... you both have my support...
<bodhi_zazen> by yet another infamous email from you know who
<pleia2> hehe
<cprofitt> I feel I am missing something...
<cprofitt> shall we end the meeting now?
<bodhi_zazen> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2009-July/000637.html
<pleia2> cprofitt: yes, I think so
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:59.
<bodhi_zazen> thank you cprofitt
<Vantrax> ^.^
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: gave me that link, lol
<cprofitt> have a good night all
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> hi
<cjwatson> hi
<liw> hi
<james_w> hi
<james_w> ho
<mterry> hi
<al-maisan> hello
<robbiew> mvo: evand: Keybuk: here?
<robbiew> slangasek: ^?
<evand> robbiew: ja
<slangasek> hi
<doko> hi
<Keybuk> robbiew: yup, I'm distracted by my boss e-mailing me
<robbiew> heh...because your boss was distracted by an employee irc'ing him ;)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] i486/i586  for Karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  i486/i586  for Karmic
<robbiew> so...what's going on with this? Keybuk?
<Keybuk> so, I've completed the tests
 * mvo waves
<doko> as there is no difference because we tune for generic anyway ... we can go forward
<Keybuk> basically, there's a big difference between -march=i486 and -march=i586
<Keybuk> because those on their own imply -mtune=i486 and -mtune=i586 respectively
<Keybuk> but we don't build that way
<Keybuk> we build (currently) -march=i486 -mtune=generic
<Keybuk> and we tested against -march=i586 -mtune=generic
<Keybuk> the *only* difference between these sets of options is the enablement of one additional instruction
<Keybuk> -mtune=generic is basically "Assume I have a 686"
<Keybuk> so there's no performance benefit to -march=i586
<Keybuk> the separate question then is whether there's a sanity benefit
<Keybuk> or a support benefit
<Keybuk> what do people think?
<liw> is there a performance penalty? is there a size difference?
<Keybuk> nope, the only difference is you get an extra instruction
<Keybuk> "compare and exchange 8 bytes"
<Keybuk> that might give some performance benefit maybe
<slangasek> if the only difference is a single instruction, I can't see how it matters from a support or sanity POV
<liw> (might have mattered if it had been the dwim instruction)
<robbiew> I agree...not really worth the effort IMO
<doko> well, lets change and use it for marketing
<robbiew> heh
<Keybuk> fwiw. the only thing that -march=i686 enables is cmov
<Keybuk> everything else is -mtune
<Keybuk> -mtune=core2 does change things compared to -mtune=generic
<doko> -mtune=core2 was proposed for lpia in the past
<robbiew> is it possible that more benefits from i586 will come in the future?..making it a good idea to move now?
<doko> but then again, it would require our build machines and live CD builds to support this
<cjwatson> seems sort of unlikely that i586 would change a whole lot
<doko> robbiew: doubtful
<Keybuk> robbiew: from what I understand, nobody even cares about i586 now
<Keybuk> if there's a chance that staying on i486 would incur regressions
<Keybuk> then there's probably just as an equal chance that staying on i586 would too
<Keybuk> since gcc's i386 port is basically assuming 686 these days
<robbiew> so then I think our plan of action is clear...don't change
<Keybuk> it wasn't a wasted effort
<robbiew> any objections?
<Keybuk> we proved that gcc 4.4 produces much faster executables
<robbiew> Keybuk: agree
<Keybuk> so that's clearly a win ;)
<Keybuk> and we learned a lot about what -march and -mtune actually do
<cjwatson> should we check some time before beta that we've actually rebuilt everything important with 4.4 over the course of the cycle?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: how would we tell?
<cjwatson> obviously the natural course of events will do that for most things but there are some packages that rarely change
<cjwatson> Keybuk: whether the package has the same versions in jaunty and karmic
<doko> Keybuk: by date of upload
<cjwatson> that would be a decent first approximation
<Keybuk> sounds like a sensible idea
<cjwatson> and very easy to implement
<Keybuk> fwiw. I'd be vaguely interested in comparing -march=i486/-mtune=generic against -march=i486/-mtune=core2 to see if that makes a difference, but that's obviously $somemorework
<doko> Keybuk: in this case, maybe we should start thinking about not just -mtune, but sse2 math as well
<slangasek> er
<slangasek> sse2 math rules out a whole swath of processors
<cjwatson> -mtune=core2 is presumably not a compatibility break, just pipelining changes and the like?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: right
<cjwatson> (in general I'm assuming that nobody has broken the assumption that -mtune doesn't break compatibility with older processors)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: given the things it fiddles with, it does not appear to
<doko> yes, but at some point we'll move forward with -march as well. when testing -mtune=core2, we should test on non core2 hw as well.
 * robbiew agrees
<Keybuk> doko: I couldn't find the SSE-related options
<doko> Keybuk: -mfpmath=* -msse*
<Keybuk> doko: ah, no I just found it
<Keybuk> also implied by -march I see
<robbiew> does the SSE stuff break compatibility for older archs?
<Keybuk> yes
<doko> we could use the lpia arch for experiments ...
 * doko hides
<robbiew> hmm
<Keybuk> doko: could I get you to make a gcc with -mtune=core2 and put that in a PPA, and I'll get adam to build the archive snapshot based off that
 * robbiew reminds folks that doko is on OEM this cycle ;)
<doko> Keybuk: done
<liw> is there a way to know if a binary uses sse instructions? could we run such executables under qemu if the host cpu doesn't support sse2? /me runs far, far away and hides really, really well
<robbiew> so be careful on expectations
<Keybuk> liw: we do that for libraries already
<Keybuk> anyway, that's it for my topic ;)
<robbiew> k
<liw> Keybuk, we run libraries under qmeu?
<Keybuk> liw: we have alternate versions installed
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Alpha 3 deliverables
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Alpha 3 deliverables
<doko> Keybuk: hmm, I currently don't see yet that -mfpmath=sse is implied by -march
<robbiew> evand: usb-creator for windows still good?
<cjwatson> (/lib/i686/cmov/sse/teleportcapablecpu/libc.so.6)
<evand> robbiew: ja
<robbiew> sweet
 * robbiew can make davidm a little happier :)
<Keybuk> doko:
<Keybuk>       {"core2", PROCESSOR_CORE2, (PTA_64BIT
<Keybuk>                                   | PTA_MMX | PTA_SSE | PTA_SSE2 | PTA_SSE3
<Keybuk>                                   | PTA_SSSE3
<Keybuk>                                   | PTA_CX16)},
<robbiew> cjwatson: Server Installer improvements still good for Alpha 3?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: "teleport capable" ?! :p
<cjwatson> robbiew: online help done, LVM config improvements committed though not uploaded, RAID config improvements nearly done (current object of blood sweat tears), crypto config improvements to come but I have a pattern to follow now
<cjwatson> so I think that's still on track
<robbiew> ok..sounds good to me, thanks :)
<cjwatson> (I want to get all the config improvements done and upload them at once, otherwise the intermediate state is going to be really confusing for people)
<robbiew> ack
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
<mterry> robbiew, rsyslog is going through MIR, there was a snag, I'm looking into it
<doko> Keybuk: imo still uses 387 math by default, will check later ...
<robbiew> mterry: ok..thnx
<robbiew> I sent the report...so folks should know where they stand
<robbiew> Keybuk..ah hem...lol
<Keybuk> robbiew: I sponsored the same amount as the majority of the kernel team ;)
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> indeed
<Keybuk> not to mention the majority of the community team
<robbiew> as a team..I'm not at all concerned with our level of sponsorship
<cjwatson> majority of community team don't have upload rights, I ought to note ;)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Objectives
<MootBot> New Topic:  Objectives
<robbiew> the PDR tool is apparently broken (surprise!)
<robbiew> nigelp is checking into it...but you can send them to me via email
<cjwatson> right
<slangasek> email> drat, I was hoping for an extension :)
<robbiew> it's already almost half way through the cycle
<robbiew> ;)
<slangasek> what better way to set your objectives than by documenting what you've already done
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
<robbiew> Hardy/Jaunty are LSB 4.0 compliant
<robbiew> woot!
<Keybuk> robbiew: I released Upstart 0.6.0
<mvo> kernel-crashdump may make it for alpha-3 (depends on if the new apport gets uploaded before or not)
<cjwatson> mterry landed the oem-config/ubiquity merge
<mterry> oh yeah!  rock on me
<doko> openjdk-6 certification mail finally sent
<robbiew> mvo: cool!
<robbiew> mterry: suhweet!
<robbiew> and big "hell yeah" for doko! :P
<robbiew> Keybuk gets a "yay!" lol
<cjwatson> ... furthermore, people's systems largely still seem to boot with upstart 0.6.0 ;-)
<Keybuk> "largely"? :)
<robbiew> oh...I guess Good News for Keybuk is that I got one of two Mini 10vs for him
<cjwatson> heh
<robbiew> Ice Blue...ooooo
<Keybuk> robbiew: that's not a computer game ;)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<robbiew> anyone else have stuff ?
<robbiew> going once....
<robbiew> twice.....
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:41.
<robbiew> thanks! :)
<evand> thanks
<mvo> thanks
<al-maisan> thanks!
<liw> gracias
<doko> robbiew, cjwatson: would you mind if I just upload eglibc-2.9 and some archive admin accepts it by chance?
<davmor2> hello
<pedro_> hola folks!
<charlie-tca> Hello
 * pedro_ hugs the qa team
<bdmurray> hi!
<heno> hey folks
 * fader_ waves.
<eeejay_> Howdy
<ara> hello
<schwuk> hi
<sbeattie> hey
<heno> ok, let's start
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> we have various people back from travels and sprinting today
<heno> welcome back pedro_, ara, eeejay, cr3, fader_
<pedro_> thanks!
<ara> heno, thanks!
 * fader_ waves again :)
<eeejay> thank you
<heno> ara: I hear your GCDS presentation went well!
<ara> heno, yes, people didn't fall asleep, at least :D
<heno> and pedro_ gave some bugsquad talks I understand
<heno> I think Ubuntu QA was well represented :)
<pedro_> heno: yeap one at the Guadec and other at the Guadec-ES ;-)
<heno> let's jump in:
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> I don't have highlights from previous weeks but...
<heno> (from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings)
<pedro_> tomorrow, yes tomorrow we're celebrating a hug day based on synaptic
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090716
<pedro_> the product is a *bit* untidy right now
<pedro_> we hope for the end of the hug day to have everything in a much better shape
<mvo> pedro_++
<heno> sounds good!
<pedro_> as you see some people started to work already, so if you have a few minutes during the day, please help us, mvo will give you an ice cream at next uds ;-)
<heno> hey mvo :)
<mvo> hey heno
<mvo> much ice cream!
<pedro_> \o/
<bdmurray> ice cream in November?
<heno> while we have mvo here should we mention the package testing spec?
<davmor2> bdmurray: it might be australia then you wouldn't mind :)
<heno> fader_, sbeattie ^
<fader_> heno: From my perspective I think we are done with the qa package testing spec -- conflictchecker is running and producing results
<heno> I understand conflict checker is running and it's ready for phase 2
<fader_> I believe at this point we can hand it off for more development
<sbeattie> yes, output is at http://conflictchecker.ubuntu.com
 * mvo hugs sbeattie for making it work again
<heno> OK, we'll let the foundations team work on it for a while
<heno> I guess QA will end up running it in the end though
<heno> [TOPIC] 8.04.3 testing status
<davmor2> tested
<heno> server still has some missing tests
<sbeattie> as davmor said, isos have been tested. I did a sanity dapper->hardy upgrade test.
<heno> do we worry about those?
<fader_> We've also seen pretty good results in the automated testing.  No failures yet, though some machines weren't tested.  I'm going through those and kicking off installs right now.
<sbeattie> two are jeos which didn't get respun
<heno> fader_: What did you say the status of ESX 8.04 testing was?
<davmor2> heno: I think they weren't available options in hardy but are in latter versions
<fader_> heno: We got a successful test on VMWare 32-bit.  I'm also going to run the test on 64-bit, both single and dual-proc machines.
<sbeattie> davmor2: hrm, tomcat wasn't, but you should still be able to raid and crypted lvm, iirc.
<fader_> (I'm having some issues getting to the vmware environment right now so hopefully they Just Work.  Otherwise it will take me a while to troubleshoot.)
<heno> ok, thanks
<davmor2> sbeattie: I leave server to the server team :)
<sbeattie> davmor2: heh
<sbeattie> oh right, virtualization host was another tasksel option that got added post hardy
<davmor2> I just know it has more tests now than it did when hardy was out :)
<heno> that's the end of the agenda
<heno> any other topics?
<sbeattie> the remaining SRU for hardy is bug 328874
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328874 in samba "getent group crashes winbindd on domain controller" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328874
<davmor2> I've been testing empathy as it is on todays cd
<davmor2> I encourage everyone else to also it has faults :)
<sbeattie> I've spent a large amount of time trying to setup an environment to reproduce it, but haven't been successful.
<bdmurray> sbeattie: it's been tested thoroughly in a later release though right?
<pedro_> davmor2: would be nice if you could test the msn support while using empathy, most of complains from users are coming from that side
<davmor2> pedro_: biggest is the lack of file sharing from what I see
<davmor2> 2.27.4 got released today and has some major fixes in
<sbeattie> bdmurray: the later versions are significantly different, upstream okayed the fix for hardy, but didn't release a fix for it themselves, having moved on to newer code.
<bdmurray> sbeattie: I've read slangasek's comments now and I'm squared away
<davmor2> so it would be nice to get that version on the cd or ppa so we can see what's been fixed
<sbeattie> One last SRU item: thanks to  Aitor Moreno, ilya-almametov, Toby Collett, Kenyon Ralph, Jisakiel, Alex Muntada, pablomme, Miklos Juhasz, Garry Dolley, exe, and Lex Ross for testing SRUs this week.
 * heno makes note to add the regular SRU topic back in - not sure why that fell off
<heno> while I'm at it: bdmurray: any news on bug-control?
<bdmurray> Yes, we've had one new member approved Bryan McLellan who is interested in server packages.  He'd applied a bit ago and his application was overlooked.
<heno> great, we should hook him up with a mentor on the server team
<heno> any other business?
<ara> daily testing?
<heno> cr3 has it on his todo list to deploy, but the metrics based attachment is ahead on the list
<heno> I believe checkbox-cert needs some adjustments to run as user
<heno> cr3: correct?
<cr3> heno: yep
<cr3> ara: I believe I have already informed you about this in #ubuntu-testing, did you want to ask anything else about daily testing?
<ara> cr3, no, nothing really, just to know what were ahead
<heno> cr3: where are we on opening some cert pages to the public
<heno> ?
<heno> fader_ would like some disk views at least for the release meeting
<heno> cr3: is it a fairly simple change?
<cr3> heno: I haven't touched code in over a week, I feel like I've been on vacation and lost track of when things will be deployed
<heno> The Montreal test lab has moved house this week
<heno> for everyone's info
<heno> so lots of packing and un-packing for cr3 :)
<cr3> heno: it is the ramifications of having some public pages potentially contain links to private pages which is where the complexity lies.
<heno> understood
<cr3> heno: technically speaking, opening up pages is just a matter of changing the acl's in the model and view layers which is rather trivial
<heno> fader_: can start by distributing screenshots :)
<fader_> heno: roger wilco :)
<heno> I think we're done
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:32.
<davmor2> cr3: can you not just lose the links on the public one and only have them visible on the canonical version?
<heno> thanks everyone!
<davmor2> thanks
<ara> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-16
<greg-g> Hello everyone, sorry for the delay in getting started with this meeting.
<greg-g> Welcome to the Membership Review Board for the America's meeting.
<greg-g> First of all, the board members who are present will just say hello so you know who is who.
<greg-g> hi :)
<boredandblogging> hola
<pleia2> hi everyone
<greg-g> cool, so right now we have 3 board members, which is a quorum, so lets get started
<greg-g> is wolter here?
<greg-g> that is an old one, probably not
<greg-g> is Duncan here?
<pleia2> looks like JonReagan, brywilharris and oubiwann aren't here
<greg-g> ok
<greg-g> sconklin: would you like to introduce yourself briefly?
<sconklin> Sure. I'm a kernel engineer working for Canonical. I've worked in open source since 2000, and was with Red Hat for 8 years before Canonical
 * greg-g waits a moment more
<greg-g> ah, hi
<sconklin> I'm currently working on new hardware enablement
<greg-g> Awesome.
 * ScottK writes that down ....
<sconklin> brief enough?
<boredandblogging> sconklin: is pgraner dragging you to Atlanta Linux Fest?
<sconklin> boredandblogging: yes, I'll be there, and the family too. It's pretty close to me (I'm in North AL)
<pleia2> great :)
<boredandblogging> sconklin: excellent, see you there
<sconklin> cool
<greg-g> you have very extensive experience, sconklin, which is why the questions are slow, I think :)
<sconklin> Other than kernel work, I'm active in amateur radio, and have contributed to several projects there
<pleia2> sconklin: you're working on hardware now, do you see yourself expanding involvement within the Ubuntu community in the future? Other future plans?
<greg-g> what are your plans for the next year or so, either specifically to Canonical work, or community-focused?
<boredandblogging> sconklin: any LoCo involvement?
<greg-g> basically the same question :)
<sconklin> I recently helped start the ubuntu-hams team, and am active in general kernel work as well. I'm also a member of Ubuntu-NGO team
<greg-g> how is the NGO stuff going? I've haven't kept up with it
<sconklin> My participation with the LOCO is limited to the mailing list, but I'd love to help make it a more active group
<sconklin> greg-g: just starting, looking for examples for white papers, etc. I'm interested because of my involvement with the American Red Cross for disaster assistance
<ScottK> sconklin: For Kubuntu we are trying to develop a netbook oriented flavor in this cycle.  We're collecting hardware compatibility information.  Are you someone we can talk to about getting stuff enabled?
<sconklin> ScottK: yes.
<greg-g> sconklin: good deal.
<boredandblogging> sconklin: might want to talk to antdedyet_, think he was trying to get the LoCo a bit more active
<sconklin> boredandblogging: thanks for the tip.
<ScottK> sconklin: Excellent.  We've collected https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Netbook/HardwareTesting so far (just starting).
<greg-g> I think we should vote
<boredandblogging> +1
<pleia2> excellent work sconklin, +1
<greg-g> +1 from me too, thanks for the awesome work sconklin
<pleia2> congrats! welcome aboard :)
<greg-g> that is 3/3, welcome!
<sconklin> Thanks! Happy to be here!
<greg-g> Doesn't look like tarvid is here?
<greg-g> or corinago
<pleia2> Wiebelhaus? bratsche?
<greg-g> tenach?
<pleia2> cr3?
<greg-g> this might go quicker than I thought?
<pleia2> hehe
<boredandblogging> lol
<greg-g> s/?/ :)/
<greg-g> akgraner: you here?
<akgraner> I'm here :-)
<czajkowski> whooo!
<greg-g> wanna give a brief introduction, please?
<akgraner> sure...Started using ubuntu in Feb of this year...
<akgraner> been involved in the NC Loco
<akgraner> and I love the community aspect of the Ubuntu Project...
<pak33m> hoooray for akgraner
<akgraner> not to mention it is an OS I can use.  :-) and I Blog about my experiences
<greg-g> akgraner: good job on the blogging, by the way
 * ScottK gives a big +1 on the blogging.
<sconklin> as the newest member :) - I'll vouch for akgraner's community contributions
<akgraner> not a technical person but more of an average end user...
<greg-g> sconklin: noted :)
<akgraner> greg-g, ScottK sconklin pak33m and czajkowski thanks...:-)
<greg-g> akgraner: I'm impressed by your list of Testimonials on your wiki page, 8 really good posts
<akgraner> Thank you..
<pleia2> as pak33m mentions, her BOF sessions on loco teams at SELF were awesome :) gave me some insight that I'd been lacking
<itnet7> akgraner: I just added my $0.02 as well, better late than never
<czajkowski> itnet7: ^5
<akgraner> itnet7, thanks..
<akgraner> :-)
<greg-g> jcastro did have a good point though, he expressed caution toward being over committed, how do you plan on controlling that aspect?
<akgraner> I have already implemented some balance in that I will give say 2 hours a day toward Ubuntu
<akgraner> haven't worked out all the details yet...
<greg-g> that is a good guide for projects that can easily take more and more time from you if you let them.
<akgraner> but it is on my todo list
<greg-g> heh
<boredandblogging> akgraner: thats smart
<pleia2> akgraner: you've done some fantastic work, thought of the future much? continuing doing what you're doing or are there other things you're interested in?
<akgraner> since I have so many other things I work on and volunteer for I had to strike a balance
<akgraner> future as in the upcoming year?
<pleia2> yep
<itnet7> You can already see her input in the Atlanta Linux Fest Payoff!
<akgraner> I am working on the planning stages for a User Conference for 2010
<akgraner> I am helping with ALF...:-)
<boredandblogging> yeah, akgraner has been helping me out with the planning of Atlanta Linux Fest, couldn't do it without her
<akgraner> I volunteered to help with SELF next year
<akgraner> and I really enjoy the LoCo side of things...
<akgraner> but I also want to learn more about testing in Ubuntu
<pleia2> cool
<akgraner> how to test a release...and features and stuff
<greg-g> akgraner: testing as in user testing or testing to make sure things work?
<akgraner> greg-g, make sure things work
<greg-g> gotcha
<greg-g> have you done much bug triage? that is a fun way to get involved with that part. You get to discover new cool programs that you wouldn't have otherwise
<akgraner> no I haven't looked into that.. I thought my tech skills needed improvement...
<BUGabundo> hi guys. I won't be able to be long. just wanted to give my support for akgraner application. thanks :)
<akgraner> thanks BUGabundo :-)
<greg-g> akgraner: well, you are welcome to try it out, we're pretty friendly in #ubuntu-bugs :)
<greg-g> I think we're about ready to vote?
<pleia2> yep
<akgraner> even when I want to help review ideas in brainstorm ziroday usually reviews things with me..
<boredandblogging> yeah
<akgraner> greg-g,  thanks!
<pleia2> brilliant work in such a short time! It's been fantastic working with you so far, looking forward to much more in the future :) +1
<boredandblogging> +1
<greg-g> well, with an eye towards a great User Conference in 2010, I'm giving a +1
<greg-g> welcome aboard, akgraner
<pleia2> congrats, akgraner! welcome :)
<boredandblogging> agree with greg-g, a user conf would rock
<akgraner> Thanks!  woo hoo!  :-)
<czajkowski> akgraner: nice one :) kudos
<itnet7> congrats akgraner !
<lajjr> congratz akgraner
<czajkowski> akgraner: well past my bedtime ,glad I stayed up,
<akgraner> I'll get posting to the list...and keep everyone informed...
<czajkowski> nn folks
<itnet7> bye czajkowski
<pak33m> congrats akgraner
<itnet7> :-)
<greg-g> Q-FUNK: you're up. brief introduction, please :)
<akgraner> Thanks everyone
<BUGabundo> congrats akgraner
<Q-FUNK> hiya! I've been heavily involved in debian since 1999, first as a user, then as a package maintianer. at ubuntu, my involvement has mostly been in LTSP and in business issues.
<Q-FUNK> oh and I attended UDS intrepid in Prague
<BUGabundo> humm Q-FUNK too? just want to say, he does a great job on #ubuntu+1. and with that, I go to bed! see you all tomorrow :)
<Q-FUNK> BUGabundo: thanks! :)
<greg-g> quite an extensive resume, Q-FUNK
 * beuno waves
<Q-FUNK> I've been involved on and off at the local ubuntu support partner (Linux-Tuki) as well.
<lajjr> Evenin BUGabundo
<pleia2> Q-FUNK: can you briefly explain how the debian-ubuntu work you do works?
<pleia2> with regard to packages upstream in debian and their ubuntu counterparts
<pleia2> what is your job?
<Q-FUNK> pleia2: sure. from day one, I've had the approach that whatever can be merged upstream should be. from ubuntu or any other distro. I'm a fairly liberal patch merger.
<pleia2> so if something is patched within ubuntu, you make sure it gets back to debian?
<Q-FUNK> and it's not really a job as much as a will to avoid forks and duplicated work among debian derivatives :)
<pleia2> cool
<greg-g> Q-FUNK: a very great goal, I appreciate that work very much
<pleia2> I see you have several PPAs as well, have you thought about applying to Ubuntu via MOTU (the packaging team) directly?
<Q-FUNK> greg-g: thanks.  I still remember debconf5, which was ubuntu's first visit to the debian universe.  I was the MC at debianDay and the one who had the idea of organizing an impromptu meeting between derivatives.
<itnet7> Nice Q-FUNK !
<Q-FUNK> and I must say that things have come a LONG way since the edgy reception that the ubuntu crew got back in 2005.
<pleia2> glad to hear it :)
<greg-g> yes, yes they have
<boredandblogging> Q-FUNK: do you think good progress is being made with LTSP into schools and businesses?
<Q-FUNK> pleia2: I have skipped the idea of joining MOTU entirely since I have extensive packaging experience from debian and also because most of my debian packages end up in main at ubuntu.
<pleia2> Q-FUNK: *nod* I've tended to take a similar approach, my packages are the same
<Q-FUNK> ...where MOTU upload rights would be of no use.
<greg-g> Well,I think we're ready for a vote now.
<Q-FUNK> boredandblogging: definitely.   I've witnessed this first-hand at my previous job, as I was the business development manager for a company that makes, among other things, thin client hardware.
<pleia2> great work over the years, Q-FUNK :) +1
<greg-g> +1 from me, great contributions, Q-FUNK
<boredandblogging> yup, yup, +1
<boredandblogging> keep up the good work Q-FUNK
<greg-g> welcome, Q-FUNK ! :)
<Q-FUNK> \o/ thanks everyone! :)
<lajjr> congratz Q-FUNK
<pleia2> congrats, welcome Q-FUNK!
<itnet7> congrats Q-FUNK !!
<sconklin> congrats!
<akgraner> congrats sconklin and Q-FUNK !  \O/  woo hoo!!
<sconklin> and akgraner too!
<pleia2> pak33m: ok, you're up!
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: might be worth looking at per-package upload rights in the future, even if you don't want universe upload rights
<pak33m> ok i am ready
<pleia2> just give us a brief intro
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: we briefly brushed this, back when stgraber got his restricted upload rights to main, actually :)
<pak33m> bit nervous still
<pak33m> my name is jimmy harris
<pak33m> been a member of the florida team since march 2007
<boredandblogging> jimmah!
<boredandblogging> oh sorry :-!
<pleia2> hehe
<itnet7> JIMMY!!!
<pak33m> np
<pak33m> worked on various projects for the us teams since then as well
<pak33m> including for both -fl and -us been a meeting mod, minutes recorder and reporter
<pleia2> yeah, pak33m is our newest mentor on the USTeams \o/
<pak33m> i continue to do the aforemntioned for -fl
<pak33m> am currently a us teams mentor for the alaska team
<pak33m> pleia2 gave me the biggest state other -fl
<boredandblogging> pak33m: weren't you DJing Florida Linux Show with Ubuntu Studio?
<pak33m> the majority of my involvment within the ubuntu community has been loco advocacy
<greg-g> pak33m: loco advocacy is great stuff, that is how I got started
<pak33m> boredandblogging: yes i do use ubutu studio and mixxx to dj
<pak33m> greg-g: i got my real boost at ubuntu live
<pleia2> pak33m was also at the SELF sessions with akgraner and I, great conversation there, inspired the US-PA team to start talking about having more tech events (we don't do enough bugjams and things)
<greg-g> good deal
<pak33m> yes, i cant say enough how inspriring it was to meet with other loco team members there
<itnet7> Jimmy has helped me out tremendously. I don't even have to ask if the team reports were done. He has many good talents and loves to plan and follow through! He and another member chaynie have recently organized a re-occurring bugjam in orlando. Our first one was last weekend, but we plan to do it monthly
<greg-g> pak33m: so, the standard question: what are your plans for the near future?
<pak33m> my focus is on loco advocacy within the -fl team and for us teams and ubuntu in general
<itnet7> oh sorry :-) I meant pak33m
<pak33m> itnet7:  no worries
<pak33m> my plans fo rthe furture are to continue working with my awesome and growing -fl team, work more with us teams projectsand more loco team mentoring
<greg-g> pak33m: so you're doing bug jams, do you also do packaging jams or anything else like that?
<pak33m> i have a passion for getting things going in loco teams
<akgraner> pak33m, mentoring skills are great.. a real source of encouragement...
<pak33m> greg-g: yes, i am helping to orgranize pack and buig jams for the -fl team
<greg-g> good deal.
<pak33m> as reocurring events
<greg-g> I like the recurring part :)
<pak33m> greg-g: inspired by the -mi team
<greg-g> pak33m: of course, you're welcome :)
<pak33m> we just had a bug jam this past sunday which was a blast
<greg-g> awesome, they really can be
<pak33m> theu -fl team is coming together better as  a result
<pak33m> and i am proude to help oragnaize that for the -fl team
<greg-g> That is very encouraging, I like to hear it.
<greg-g> Well, I think we're ready to vote.
<pak33m> i put a great deal of effort and time into my inv into the ubuntu community
<pleia2> awesome work pak33m :) +1
<boredandblogging> pak33m: you need to put some of your music online
<greg-g> for using the great bug/packaging jam idea and other good advocacy work, +1 from me
<boredandblogging> pak33m: you know, get a blog like the rest of us schmucks
<boredandblogging> +1
<pak33m> boredandblogging: musics coming
<pleia2> woohoo, congrats pak33m!
<pak33m> oh and ive been denting lately
<greg-g> pak33m: congrats!
<itnet7> +1 pak33m !!! Good Job you deserve it!
<akgraner> pak33m, congrats!
<pak33m> awesome thank you pleia2 greg-g boredandblogging
<pak33m> and everybody else
<pak33m> i wont let you all down
<pleia2> :)
<greg-g> pak33m: you've been doing great work, I don't foresee that happening
<greg-g> congrats to all the new members!
<pak33m> hehe that was my pledge
<pak33m> congrats to all the new members
<pleia2> thanks for a great meeting everyone :) congrats
<sconklin> thank you again
<greg-g> I think that is it for tonight. Have a great evening everyone and see you next meeting.
<boredandblogging> congrats all!
<akgraner> Thanks you all!!
<pak33m> akgraner: you were great
<akgraner> pak33m, as were you! Thanks!
<Q-FUNK> thanks everyone!
<modder25> [03:35] <tweaker25> http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fr&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.ubuntu-fr.org%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fpid%3D2808462%23p2808462&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=
<modder25> [03:35] <tweaker25> http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?pid=2808462#p2808462
<ludovicc> hello, anything going on today?
<ttx> ludovicc: i missed the starting time
<ludovicc> it's confusing: the wiki page says 9:00 UTC, the calendar says 14:00
<yinoneh> hi
<ubuntuella> Hi yinoneh.
<dpm> ok, Ubuntu translations meeting
<pedro_> hello everybody
<dpm> so who's there?
<evanrmurphy> here
<danilos> me, though I might be only partially around
* dpm changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu translations meeting /https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/Events/Meetings
<henninge> me, same as danilos
<dpm> anyone else would like to raise his/her hand? Otherwise, we'll get started
<czajkowski> aloha
<yinoneh> me too, but have to leave... :(
<dpm> hi everyone, let's start with some of the topics from the last meeting
<dpm> [TOPIC] Communication within the localization teams
<dpm> evanrmurphy: I think that was your topic, would you like to start?
<evanrmurphy> dpm: Sure thing.
<dpm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:05. The chair is dpm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dpm> [TOPIC] Communication within the localization teams
<evanrmurphy> I was curious to here about how communication is handled with the other localization teams.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Communication within the localization teams
<evanrmurphy> With the Ubuntu Spanish Translators, we've got a tried and true mailing list which is the fount for basically all our communication.
<evanrmurphy> It's nice because it's simple and centralized, but I became aware of some weaknesses to our relying on it entirely.
<evanrmurphy> The largest point of concern is that new people interested in our team I think are often looking for a lot of feedback.
<evanrmurphy> But it's happened that people have written to the ML and been underwhelmed by responses.
<evanrmurphy> (People on our team naturally get busy and don't respond to every post they see on the mailing list, plus the nature of a mailing list makes responses less obligatory, IMO.)
<evanrmurphy> so I recently started (actually revived) an IRC channel for our team at #ubuntu-l10n-es
<evanrmurphy> A few of us have been hanging out there fairly consistently, and I've been pleased because it's allowed me to get to know better some of my teammates, who I was otherwise working side-by-side with but seldom conversing with.
<evanrmurphy> We've already had a few new people come to the channel, and I think the live interaction has been beneficial for them, and encouraged them to continue pursuing translations with us even though it can be difficult.
<dpm> evanrmurphy: I'm pleased to hear that. We've got the same approach and issues in our Catalan team with the mailing list. We haven't got a dedicated channel for translations, but we've just been talking about using the one from our loco for meetings and so on.
<evanrmurphy> So that's all I had to say, really. Just an anecdote about this recent development in our team I wanted to share with you, perhaps have your feedback, and hear how these kinds of things are on your teams. Thanks.
<dpm> I do agree that IRC is also good for translations. Sometimes it helps even for experienced translators to have real-time communications for quick reviews. Do other translation teams use e.g. forums?
<adiroiban> IRC is ok if you have a very active team
<adiroiban> otherwise a forum or a ML is recommended as most probably you will not have all translators online in the same time
<adiroiban> and reading  IRC logs is not a pleasant task
<evanrmurphy> adiroiban: Yes, I agree. IRC has its weaknesses as well.
<adiroiban> we are using #ubuntu-ro as an all jack channel
<adiroiban> chat, support, l10n, planning, meetings
<adiroiban> but we don't have to many l10n discussions
<evanrmurphy> adiroiban: That sounds very sensible for the Romanian team.
<evanrmurphy> With Spanish, there are tens and tens of LoCo teams, but only one translations team. So it's a bit unfortunate that with all the translators spread across so many countries, we're unable to unite in one LoCo.
<evanrmurphy> But we're lucky to have so many contributors all across the world.
<evanrmurphy> I suppose different teams will need different solutions and tools.
<dpm> Yes, I think that's a good summary, I'd also propose you to just ask in the ubuntu-translators mailing list, see what other teams not here today do
<evanrmurphy> dpm: Sounds good. :)
<dpm> ok, anything else, shall we go for the next topic?
<dpm> [TOPIC] Reverting old translations to packaged ones
<MootBot> New Topic:  Reverting old translations to packaged ones
<dpm> danilos: that was your topic, if you've got time, go ahead, if not, I can take it
<danilos> well, it's simple
<danilos> I am considering reverting all changed translations before 2008-01-01, when we didn't have enough tools to track those changes, or when Launchpad didn't behave as well as today
<danilos> so, this would be for all languages in Ubuntu, and it'd be interesting to know if people are interested in us doing it
<danilos> if not, there's always an option for any particular team to ask for a single language to be reverted
<adiroiban> what do you mean by reverting?
<danilos> adiroiban: well, reverting to packaged translations, when they are different from ones provided in LP
<adiroiban> moving current translations as suggestions?
<danilos> basically, use "Packaged" suggestions for all translations changed in LP before 2008-01-01
<adiroiban> or just deleting them?
<evanrmurphy> Using Packaged instead of Current?
<danilos> adiroiban: we wouldn't be deleting them, we would leave them as suggestions
<danilos> in general, we very rarely delete anything
<danilos> only in the case of obvious mistake (like someone uploading a wrong language PO file to another language)
<evanrmurphy> Could you explain a bit more about the rationale, danilos?
<adiroiban> Hm... I don't know what to say. I don't feel the need for this in RO translations.
<adiroiban> maybe just leave each team to request it.
<danilos> evanrmurphy: just a little bit more: in early days of Launchpad, there was no 'changed in LP' filter, nor were 'Packaged' translations shown so prominently
<adiroiban> also, I think that soon UTC will be able to revert a package
<dpm> danilos: and with how much granularity could this be done, i.e. could people provide a list of templates who'd like to see reverted, or would this just apply to a whole distro?
<danilos> which means that there were a lot of inadvertent changes done in many ubuntu translations, why upstreams hated us
<danilos> dpm: no, it's either easy do-it-for-all, or back to using changed-in-lp filter if people want more granularity
<danilos> we don't have enough time to handle all this for each team specifically
<danilos> adiroiban: why do you think that? if that was the case, I think I'd know about it :)
<danilos> adiroiban: (i.e. that UTC will be able to revert a package)
<adiroiban> :p
<evanrmurphy> ah
<danilos> so, my impression from this meeting is: there's no particular interest for this simple solution; conclusion is: we won't do it :)
<danilos> we still offer each team an option to request that language to be reverted, but otherwise, it's up to using the web UI :)
<dpm> danilos: so just to get it clear, this would be for all languages at once, if it were to be done?
<danilos> dpm: that's right
<evanrmurphy> danilos: I guess it just comes as a bit of a shock.
<evanrmurphy> And I'm not sure I understand all the implications.
<danilos> evanrmurphy: depends on who you ask, translators active both upstream and in Ubuntu, and where Ubuntu translation teams were open for a long time, were those who made me think it would be desireable
<danilos> in general, it seems we don't have those people here, so it's a moot point
<danilos> anyway, there doesn't seem to be enough motivation to carry on with this, so I won't
<evanrmurphy> Perhaps we can discuss it further on the ML?
<danilos> sorry, I got to go back to the other stuff I got to finish today
<danilos> evanrmurphy: by all means, but I will be gone for 2 weeks
<danilos> evanrmurphy: I am happy for ubuntu translators to discuss it and let me know if they want it done
<dpm> Yes, again, let's take it to the ML, thanks for the explanation, danilo. My take is that it'd be interesting only on a team by team basis
<dpm> anything else, shall we move on?
<ArneGoetje> danilos: I would prefer not to do it for all languages. It should be left open for each team to decide if they want it for their language or not. (I know that for zh_TW we would not want it.)
<dpm> yes, maybe request it through the rosetta Answers in LP
<danilos> ArneGoetje: we already said many times that's fine, this time I am proposing doing it with a date limitation
<dpm> danilos: would it be fine if we ask it on the ML and provide a list of those teams who'd want to do that?
<danilos> dpm: sure
<dpm> ok, let's take it from there then
<dpm> next topic, adiroiban
<dpm> [TOPIC] Communicating with Ubuntu translation teams
<MootBot> New Topic:  Communicating with Ubuntu translation teams
<adiroiban> ok.
<adiroiban> Now that we have shared translations between jaunty and karmic
<adiroiban> I think that we should see more progress for Jaunty translations during the Karmic development cicle
<evanrmurphy> \o/
<adiroiban> and it this case it would make sense to have oftern language packs updated for Jaunty
<adiroiban> but since we don't have a communication with  many teams
<adiroiban> maybe it will be hard to have the signoff of the language packs
<adiroiban> ... this is just one of the reasons why communication is important
<adiroiban> so
<adiroiban> our goal should to be see ways in which we can reach
<adiroiban> ubuntu localization teams
<adiroiban> first questions
<adiroiban> do you think we should name ubuntu localizatoin team contacts?
<adiroiban> or just communicate with teams
<dpm> I like the idea of having a team contact, since sometimes it is difficult to contact a team with say 3 administrators
<adiroiban> without the need of naming team coordinators
<adiroiban> coordinator
<adiroiban> why is dificult to contact a team with 3 admins?
<dpm> what do you mean by "without naming team coordinators"? I think the team coordinator would be the first candidate for being the contact point
<adiroiban> the answer probability should be greater :)
<evanrmurphy> Probability is greater with 3 admins, but responsibility is diffused.
<adiroiban> team coordinator(s) = team contact(s)
<dpm> adiroiban: it is only difficult (although that was probably the wrong word) in the sense that you do not know which one is the coordinator
<dpm> evanrmurphy: you put it very nicely :)
<adiroiban> as long as we got an answer, why should we care who is the coordinator?
<evanrmurphy> I can consult with my team and see if the team leader, Ricardo PÃ©rez, would be willing to be the l10n team contact.
<dpm> As the team's representative I'd expect the coordinator to be more responsive, and it's easier to just contact one person
<adiroiban> dpm: ok.
<adiroiban> then let's start a wiki page similar to LoCo teams
<dpm> but I think the next question is how can this be implemented, do we take the model of loco teams adi is suggesting?
<dpm> like having l10n-contacts or something?
<adiroiban> at least, this could help up in identifing the teams what receive our information
<adiroiban> dpm: I will keep it on launchpad-translators
<adiroiban> do don't have a huge trafic anyway
<dpm> adiroiban: what do you mean by keeping it in launchpad-translators?
<dpm> I mean in practical terms
<adiroiban> if we are going to have a  l10n-contacts (team or ML), it is better to name it approved-l10n-teams
<adiroiban> launchpad-translators mailinglist
<adiroiban> basicaly we need a communication channel with l10n team contacts. Right?
<adiroiban> Or I'm missing the point
<evanrmurphy> adirioban: Yes.
<evanrmurphy> That channel could take many different forms, correct?
<dpm> yes, I understant you mean the launchpad-translators mailing list, but in which way does this differ from the current ubuntu-translators mailing list?
<evanrmurphy> Are you suggesting the l10n team contacts be available on the launchpad-translators ML?
<adiroiban> dpm: darn. my bad
<adiroiban> ubuntu-translators
<evanrmurphy> How about this:
<dpm> Right, now I get you :)
<adiroiban> ignore what I said about launchpad-translators and replace it with ubuntu
<dpm> yes, yes, I get you
<evanrmurphy> l10n team contacts (probably the team admin) should be available on the ubuntu-translators ML
<evanrmurphy> but their info will also be catalogued on a l10n contact page so that they can be individually contacted if needed.
<dpm> yes, that sounds good to me, the only grey area for me atm is the implementation of the l10n contact page
<adiroiban> we can start with a wikipage
<adiroiban> and then see if we can use the LoCo directory
<adiroiban> LoCo directory infrastructure - webapp + LP teams
<dpm> right, now it gets clearer. Yes, the loco directory sounds a good resource to explore also for translation teams
<adiroiban> ok
<evanrmurphy> Not sure I'm not familiar with the LoCo directory. Link please?
<adiroiban> evanrmurphy: LoCo directory is WIP
<adiroiban> we can start with a wikipage
<adiroiban> similar to the current one
<dpm> so do we agree on a) name team contacts and b) adding them initially to a wiki page and then see if we can use a more automated resource (LP team or LoCo directory)?
<adiroiban> a) let each team name it's contact
<adiroiban> b) ask team contact to add their team/info to a wikipage
 * evanrmurphy says "Ay".
<dpm> although I agree, I'd strongly recommend the contact to be the coordinator
<evanrmurphy> Include strong recommendation in a).
<dpm> right, let's take this to actions, would anyone like to volunteer to create the l10n-contacts wiki page?
<adiroiban> even without our recommendation, I believe will chose their contacts from withing  their coordinators
<adiroiban> dpm: I can do that
<dpm> adiroiban: thanks
<adiroiban> we can talk on the ML about the fields and what info do we require from each team
<adiroiban> ex. like if they have bad writing support
<adiroiban> and in this case Arne could contact them and look into that matter
<adiroiban> ok.
<adiroiban> I think we are close to the end of this meeting
<ArneGoetje> adiroiban: "bad writing support"?
<adiroiban> or we can continue?
<adiroiban> no fonts
<evanrmurphy> I am available to continue.
<evanrmurphy> We still have several topics, if other people can stay.
<adiroiban> or keyboard layouts
<dpm> is there something else after our meeting?
<evanrmurphy> no
<ArneGoetje> adiroiban: we do ship fonts and keyboard layouts for every language we have in Launchpad, AFAIK
<evanrmurphy> dpm: I don't think there's another meeting.
<dpm> I can stay as well, if you like, or other wise we can move it to ubuntu-translators
<evanrmurphy> Hope not. :)
<adiroiban> dpm: nope. Only at 18 UTC
<dpm> right, let's go on then
<dpm> I do have to go in 30 mins, though
<adiroiban> ok.
<dpm> shall we move on to the next one?
<evanrmurphy> Wait.
<adiroiban> from my point of view. Ubuntu Translations project is doing well... there are a lot of bugs :)
<evanrmurphy> So adiroiban volunteered to start the wiki.
<dpm> adiroiban: wait a sec, evanrmurphy wants to add something
<evanrmurphy> Does someone need to start something on the ML as well?
<dpm> evanrmurphy: would you like to start a thread for that?
<adiroiban> we can continue the brainstorm on the ML
<adiroiban> and see if we get any good ideas :)
<evanrmurphy> Sure. I'll do that.
<dpm> ok, next one
<dpm> [TOPIC] Promoting the Ubuntu Translations project
<MootBot> New Topic:  Promoting the Ubuntu Translations project
<dpm> This is about how to best let bug reporters and triagers know about the ubuntu-translations project
<dpm> I've asked pedro_ to be here to give us some advice on that
<dpm> As those on the last meeting know
<dpm> the ubuntu-translations project in Launchpad was started to be the central place for bugs (although we've been discussing other things, like support requests as well) in Ubuntu translations
<dpm> bug reporters and triagers can either add the ubuntu-translations project to a bug ("also affects project" field) or report the bug against it
<dpm> in the latter case, the Ubuntu Translations Coordinators team will figure out which package it affects
<dpm> it is a very recent project, and we'd like to promote it in the best way and integrate it in the bug triaging/reporting process (hug days, etc)
<dpm> soren, any ideas on how to do that?
<dpm> (I don't know why 'so' always gets replaced by 'soren' ;) )
<pedro_> in the case of requesting feedback from the ubuntu-translations team
<pedro_> do you still want us to open a new tasks for that?
<pedro_> or do you guys have a team we could just subscribe to the bugs
<pedro_> IMHO that'd work better
<dpm> we've got the ubuntu-translations-coordinators team, which is the driver for the project, and we're subscribed to bugs
<dpm> they end up in our mailing list
<pedro_> alright we need to update some of the docs of the triage process then to reflect that
<adiroiban> pedro_: we can also create a ubuntu-translations team
<dpm> pedro_:  you say that subscribing the UTCs team would work better than opening a new task for the ubuntu-translations project?
<adiroiban> but we went for creating a project to also cover the case where people are not sure if the bug is in launchpad or ubuntu
<pedro_> dpm: well i don't know for which kind of reports are you going to use the project
<pedro_> most of translations issues are related to packages (empathy, gwibber, etc)
<pedro_> and other things can maybe be discussed at mailing lists , etc
<adiroiban> yes, but there are also bugs regarding language packs
<dpm> anything related to translations _in Ubuntu_, it's to have a central place to have them and to be able to suscribe to
<adiroiban> or ubuntu translations process
<pedro_> adiroiban: which could be assigned to the right language-pack ? ;-)
<adiroiban> pedro_: right... but it is hard for us to subribe to each language pack
<ArneGoetje> dpm: we could add an apport-hook, so that 'ubuntu-bug translations' will collect useful system information (locale, release, etc.) and submit the bug report to the Ubuntu Translations project.
<dpm> before that, we had a wiki page. It's not as much as language packs but also i18n bugs (for language packs, if it's a wrong translation, I just contact the team coordinator to correct it)
<ArneGoetje> pedro_: there are more than 770 language packs...
<dpm> ArneGoetje: apport, that's a good point as well
<dpm> pedro_: one important point is to get a general overview of the translation bugs (l10n and i18n) and be able to subscribe to them
<pedro_> dpm: got it
<dpm> pedro_: but as I say, this is a very recent project. It seems to work well, but we've just started, so we are open to any suggestions
<pedro_> well let see how that works, i'm just worried about people opening thousand of tasks for bugs
<dpm> so you'd suggest for us to test it for a bit before making a big announcement, or just announce it and see how it works out as we go along?
<pedro_> let's announce it and see how it works, if it doesn't too nice, later we can try some other option :-)
<dpm> soren, quickly to wrap up some actions: I can talk to pedro_ to see how we can include this in the documentation, and we should probably announce it on the ML again and blog about it. Agreed? Any other ideas?
<adiroiban> talk about next meeting
<adiroiban> we will have kubuntu translations in 29 ?
<adiroiban> and the next ubuntu translations in 30 ?
<adiroiban> July
<dpm> adiroiban: so, step by step, do you first want to defer this topic to the next meeting?
<dpm> not defer, I mean put it on the agenda again
<adiroiban> yes
<adiroiban> I think we can evaluate it again
<dpm> sounds good to me, anyone else?
<dpm> now for the Kubuntu translations questions: I've only got 2 mins, I've got an appointment
<dpm> adiroiban: can you elaborate the Kubuntu question?
<adiroiban> I only want to know if we are going to have the kubuntu translations day, or no
<dpm> right, yes, I have to announce it properly, but basically I confirmed it on kubuntu-devel and I added it to the fridge calendar
<adiroiban> and where is the agenda
<evanrmurphy> Good.
<adiroiban> or what are the expectations for the Kubuntu translations day
<adiroiban> but we can talk later
<adiroiban> :)
<adiroiban> no hurry
<dpm> adiroiban: It's not as much as a meeting but rather a day where to care for Kubuntu translations. I will be announcing it in more detail next week
<adiroiban> ok
<dpm> and activities which can be done
<dpm> ok, then I'd like to thank you all very much for your participation and always good ideas and discussion, and I think we can wrap it up
<evanrmurphy> Thanks, dpm.
<evanrmurphy> Thanks all.
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<dpm> I'll be sending the minutes tomorrow
<dpm> Thank you all! \o/
<adiroiban> great :)
<dpm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:35.
* dpm changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<grantbo1> jcastro: next time you twit about a meeting on IRC, please include the channel name :-)
<grantbo1> this is grantbow, thanks for following me on twitter
<jcastro> oh, heh, yeah good idea.
<jcastro> 3 minutes until Ubuntu Global Jam meeting!
<jono> :)
<Daviey> !!
<jcastro> and Daviey is here! woo.
<Daviey> jcastro: Sarcasim is just rude :)
<b1ackcr0w> i assume i'm welcome to lurk and see what's going on?
<jcastro> b1ackcr0w: of course!
<jcastro> Daviey: I miss you dude, I need more englishmen in my life.
<b1ackcr0w> cool thx
<jcastro> ok we'll give people like 3 more minutes to join, etc.
<jcastro> ok, please holler if you were here the last meeting (about a month ago)
<jcastro> if this is your first meeting, then please introduce yourself and which loco you are from
<jono> hi folks, sorry I can't help run the meeting
<jono> a last minute call I have to get on
<jono> I am sure the able hands of jcastro will do a great job :)
<b1ackcr0w> alistair - just a relatively new user looking to get involved - maybe in documentation in due course - UK based
<Daviey> Hi b1ackcr0w, good to hear
<jcastro> ok so to just recap
<jcastro> in the past Ubuntu has had a "Ubuntu Global Bug Jam"
<jcastro> which was a coordinated effort to get all the local teams to triage bugs during one specific weekend.
<jcastro> This went well but we thought we could expand it to include other things, not just bugs
<jcastro> so this time we're calling it the "Ubuntu Global Jam"
<jcastro> and your loco can pick what they want to do
<jcastro> so you could do an installfest, a translations thing, a documentation sprint, whatever
<jcastro> We are coordinating this effort here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<jcastro> if you look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam/Events
<jcastro> you'll see that local teams are already signing up to do certain types of things
<jcastro> the Jam isn't actually until October
<jcastro> so we started early because people need time to get venues, have time to advertise, etc.
<jcastro> so right now we're still in the "get Local Teams to sign up" phase
<jcastro> any questions so far?
<e-jat> jcastro: how to sign up ? is it just filling up the event on the wiki ?
<jcastro> yep
<e-jat> of sorry .. btw .. im from ubuntu-my loco
<jcastro> rock and roll!
<jcastro> however, depending on how your loco works you might want to ask around first
<jcastro> it might be bad if you post on your list "hey guys I just committed us to a 12 hour installfest! come help me!"
<jcastro> Some locos might work like that though, heh.
<e-jat> what is "others" mean
<jcastro> the other people in your loco
<e-jat> jcastro: owh really ..
 * ball wishes there were other people in his loco team
<ball> ...or even his lug
<e-jat> jcastro: yeah .. for sure ill ask the team members 1st
 * ball shrugs
<jcastro> e-jat: so what we usually do is someone asks "so hey, what do we want to do for this global jam?"
<jcastro> you might want to do a bunch of things, depends on the interests of your members
<jcastro> our lug for example will probably do bugs, but not an installfest.
<jcastro> another reason we try to fill out the events page is so that locos can know what other locos are doing
<jcastro> so you can share information and materials
<e-jat> jcastro: maybe we can separate into groups ..
<jcastro> but also as an opportunity for people to browse the list and find a loco that they can join
<jcastro> e-jat: yep, whatever way works best for your team
<e-jat> who n which their interested to ..
<e-jat> yeah .. the wiki might help ..
<jcastro> Ok so we make some resources available to you to help you run a good jam
<jcastro> on the wiki page you see that Jono and  I run IRC and video sessions on how to run a jam
<e-jat> resources ? a mentor ?
<e-jat> ic ..
<jcastro> that's where we cover things like how to find a venue, how to advertise, things like that
<jcastro> so someone from your team should try to attend one of those sessions, they are very useful
<jcastro> or click on the IRC logs link to follow along
<jcastro> if you're an experienced Loco and want to have other sessions or lessons, that would be great too!
 * jcastro looks over to Daviey 
<jcastro> :p
<e-jat> how about triage a bug ?
<jcastro> e-jat: sure
<Daviey> o/
<jcastro> so some resources available to you
<jcastro> if you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams
<jcastro> we've recently revamped this documentation to be easy to read and apply to your team
<sbalneav> Afternoon all
<e-jat> jcastro: great .. it will be great if our loco can get a mentor while running the bugs jam
<jcastro> people from other Loco's have been adding information too so you don't repeat mistakes made by other teams
<jcastro> hi scottie!
<Daviey> http://blog.daviey.com/blogroll/ubuntu-uk-community-bug-jam-09.html <-- a quick write up from our one earlier this ear
<Daviey> year*
<jcastro> e-jat: another reason we have the loco event list is so that newer teams can learn from more  experienced teams
<jcastro> e-jat: don't worry the entire weekend has a ton of locos in IRC, so you should never feel like you are in a vaccum
<e-jat> :)
<jcastro> sbalneav: here's the URL https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<jcastro> so what we are trying to do right now is to get other Loco teams from around the world to sign up with an event
<jcastro> it's still early so alot of locos aren't signed up yet
<jcastro> so part of the reason we have this meeting is to encourage everyone to sign up for an event
<jcastro> and to get the word out so other locos become interested and sign up as well
<jcastro> So please blog/dent/tweet/call/smoke signal/morse code the jam throughout all our communication channels
<jcastro> the goal of the Jam is for locos to get together
<jcastro> so even if your "event" ends up being 2 people in a pub because you live in the middle of nowhere (ie. Canada), then that's ok too
<dantalizing> +1
<grantbo1> +1
<e-jat> Daviey: great writeup .. but how can ubuntu-my afford to fly in the developer :)
<jcastro> Sometimes locos get concerned because they have 20 people show up and they "only triaged X amount of bugs"
<jcastro> if your members have a good time and learn something and you're coming together, then that is success.
<e-jat> +1
<jcastro> so don't get too bent around the axle about numbers of bugs or code or docs or whatever.
<Mean-Machine> yeah. we already started working on our 2nd Bug Jam https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/GlobalJam09
<jcastro> this one time we planned a jam at the library and we got random people walking in and kind of interrupting
<e-jat> jcastro: just make it done which how much u can , right?
<jcastro> so instead we just brought them in and talked beginner stuff
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> So sometimes things don't go according to plan - but if you get a bunch of new people then concentrate on them
<e-jat> agreed..
<jcastro> because even if they are not interested in ubuntu or anything at that moment in time, they will remember the nice group of geeks that took the time to explain things to them and show them ubuntu, etc.
<jcastro> any questions so far?
 * e-jat no from me ..
<ball> jcastro: is there anything that a small LUG (that isn't necessarily affiliated with a LoCo) can do?
<jcastro> yes
<jcastro> so the last jams there was a group called "club ubuntu"
<jcastro> which was a virtual loco
<jcastro> of people just like you banded together
<grantbo1> interesting
<jcastro> or, you can just be involved individually if you want
<jcastro> you can hang out the entire weekend in irc and just follow along with what people are working on
<jcastro> the ubuntu teams usually do things like put together a list of bugs to look at
<jcastro> or wiki pages that need to be cleaned up
<jcastro> or things like that
<jcastro> you would just follow along like everyone else
<ball> Hmm... okay.  Thanks.
<e-jat> c00l
<Daviey> e-jat: He happend to be in London :)
<jcastro> actually, 2 global jams ago I think the club ubuntu virtual loco got in the largest number of bugs touched
<e-jat> Daviey: ;]
<jcastro> ball: whatever works for you
<jcastro> trust me there will be plenty of people without locos looking to contribute
<Daviey> We actually found that a large bulk of people who attended had never even heard of Launchpad, let alone had an account!
<jcastro> Daviey: right so that's one thing I cover in the training sessions
<jcastro> it's useful if you tell people how to prepare beforehand
<jcastro> like, "everyone go sign up for an lp account if you don't have one!"
<jcastro> there will still be people who don't have them
<jcastro> but you can at least get the word out early
<Daviey> I think people who attended still found it useful to have a real life "tour" of launchpad
<jcastro> yes, for sure
<ball> I have a Launchpad account, just very little idea how to drive the thing.
<jcastro> Daviey: if you can find someone in your loco to do a few irc sessions during july/august that would be great, I am travelling: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<Daviey> I also found that you need to keep checking people, to see how they are doing.  The inner geek in many found it hard to say "i'm stuck", and sat there scrolling mouse up and down - not knowing what to do.
<e-jat> Daviey: +1
<jcastro> ok, so at a minimum we should all make sure our locos want to plan to participate
<jcastro> and then get on the event wiki page
<jcastro> I have 2 sessions in september on how to run a successful jam
<jcastro> but hopefully someone can have some in july/august
<jcastro> but most of the information is on the wiki, if you've got a person who knows how to plan events it shouldn't be so hard.
<Daviey> jcastro: Do you mean on a LoCo level, or global thingy?
<jcastro> Daviey: loco level to find out if you want to do the global level. :D
<jcastro> also, something that people don't tend to know
<Daviey> heh, we are
<jcastro> the global bug jam is just one event
<jcastro> that is coordinated amonst all the locos
<jcastro> your loco can have as many jams as it wants
<jcastro> whenever you want!
<Daviey> i'm having a jam in my house right now!
<ball> Daviey: jamtastic
<jcastro> so if your loco is good at something and you have the people, Just Do It(tm) and tell the world about it
<e-jat> Daviey: woo
<grantbo1> Ubuntu Global Jam - we all still stick Bug in there sometimes, haha
<grantbo1> or were you talking about the weekly bug jams?
<Mean-Machine> if you're organizing the bug jam for the first time I'd suggest to bring along someone who has done some triaging before. the intro was done by one of our members the 1st time and it was extremely useful
<jcastro> grantbo1: we'll always have one big coordinated jam per cycle, the global jam
<Daviey> grantbo1: Well it's not *wrong* to be focussed on bugs IMO.. To an english speaking nation, the translations are less importiant.. but could also do an "Answers" focus jam
<jcastro> grantbo1: and your loco can have all sorts of jams if it wants
 * grantbo1 nods
<jcastro> the global thing is nice because we can do one big event as a group and learn what other locos are doing
<e-jat> Mean-Machine: +1 .. but how if dont have any? so need to refer someone in IRC to help about it right?
<jcastro> I cannot stress how important cross-pollination of ideas from locos can be
<Daviey> "set a date, and people will come"
<jcastro> so like, some locos put together signs and graphics and put them on the wiki
<jcastro> that you can adapt to use for your needs, etc.
<grantbo1> common problems, common solutions
<Mean-Machine> e-jat, IRC is always helpful. loads of ppl online during bug jams. you'll get answers in miliseconds :)
<jcastro> ok, if there are no more questions let's officially end the meeting now, and just chat for a bit (unless there's another meeting)
<jcastro> oh I almost forgot
<jcastro> if you're struggling, please mail the loco-contacts list
<jcastro> this is where a bunch of loco leaders hang out, so they can always help you
<jcastro> and of course feel free to mail me at jorge@ubuntu.com if you need help or advice
<grantbo1> will this meeting's log be posted to the wiki page?
<jcastro> grantbo1: good idea!
<Daviey> grantbo1: well voluntered!
<jcastro> I am screened in and I fail at copy and paste in screen, so someone else will have to do it
<jcastro> but feel free to put it in there
<grantbo1> I can, but there's already a log when using this channel, right?
<Daviey> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<e-jat> jcastro: ill mail u if need help ..
<jcastro> hey look at that!
<grantbo1> ty
<grantbo1> should I cut it up and put just this meeting on a wiki page?
<jcastro> sure
<grantbo1> cut up the html one I guess.  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/07/16/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<grantbo1> kk
<e-jat> or buzz at ya microblog :)
<Daviey> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/07/16/%23ubuntu-meeting.txt
<Daviey> ^ txt
<grantbo1> Daviey: are you volunteering?  ;-)
<Daviey> grantbo1: nope, you did that nicely. kkthnx
<grantbo1> actually, you did it for me when I asked a question, lol.  it all works out.
<mhall119|work> jcastro: you still around?
<jcastro> mhall119|work: yep
<mhall119|work> would it be possible to have some LoCo channels pinged before these meetings?
<jcastro> mhall119|work: indeed, let me make sure they're on the fridge calendar as well
<mhall119|work> I was in #ubuntu-us-fl all morning and had no idea there was going to be a meeting here
<Mean-Machine> mhall119|work, great idea
<mhall119|work> even if it's just a bot that joins, mentions the channel and time, and parts
<Mean-Machine> an email to lococontacts would also be nice
<jcastro> Mean-Machine: noted
<Mean-Machine> could then forward to the locos lists
<mhall119|work> the problem with email is that I'm at work,and don't check my personal email often
<mhall119|work> but, thanks to irssi, I'm on IRC
<jcastro> well, a few days before would be good
<mhall119|work> you over-estimate my memory
<mhall119|work> but you're right, a 24 or 48 hour notice would help
<jcastro> and on top of that we're not on the fridge calendar either
<Daviey> rly?
<jcastro> oh no, wait, it is
<Mean-Machine> jcastro, tis ;-]
<Daviey> but hidden! :)
<Mean-Machine> +3 more
<highvoltage> Hi, who's here for the Edubuntu meeting
<LaserJock> I am
<highvoltage> <question mark />
 * Lns raises hand
<highvoltage> Agenda is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda
 * alkisg also raises hand
<highvoltage> We kept it simple since it wasn't clear whether LaserJock would be able to attend and we knew that stgraber wouldn't be able to make it
<LaserJock> hmm, the agenda looks kinda thin
 * ball raises his hand too
<e-jat> o/
<ball> I wasn't, but since I'm here anyway...
<highvoltage> ball: heh
<highvoltage> LaserJock: anything you would like to add?
<LaserJock> well, I think top priority is an assessment of Karmic
<highvoltage> LaserJock: last week you said that you wouldn't mind putting together a to-do list for edubuntu, would you perhaps like to discuss that?
<ball> Will there be a section near the end for random questions?
 * sbalneav waves hand
<sbalneav> Present.
<highvoltage> ball: we can do that, #edubuntu is always open for that as well.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: oops, yeah, i didn't send that out. I'd be happy to give a list here
<highvoltage> sbalneav: great :)
<ball> highvoltage: thanks
<highvoltage> LaserJock: thanks
<highvoltage> ok, let's get going
<highvoltage> 1. Website
<highvoltage> I got in touch with Phillip Schroder who's currently in charge of the website
<highvoltage> he said that between his work and his family he won't have any more time for the site
<highvoltage> and he's happy to give it over to anyone who's willing to give it attention.
<highvoltage> I wish I had more time to spend energy on it, but my plate is full and I think we need to assign someone to the site who can give it some special attention
<LaserJock> I did a run-through of all the edubuntu.org pages earlier in the year
<LaserJock> there's some amount of cleanup that could be done, particularly in namespace
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that was on the wiki, right?
<LaserJock> maybe, I honestly don't remember. At one point I had it just on a piece of paper
 * Lns doesn't have enough authoring knowledge to step up :(
<ball> Is it done with a content engine, or just XHTML and CSS?
<LaserJock> but I think top priority would be to look at what needs to be done for Karmic's release
<highvoltage> I think it was, perhaps we should combine the job as the person who is repsonsible for the site and wiki pages
<LaserJock> ball: drupal
<ball> Ah okay.  I don't know that.
<highvoltage> ball: the site is drupal and the wiki pages are moin markup
<LaserJock> I think we need to divide the site between the "current" content and archival content
 * highvoltage makes notes
<LaserJock> I found a lot of pages that were old but were written as current
<LaserJock> so if a person stumbles onto the Dapper release notes they may think they are the current ones
<LaserJock> I think we need to have a set of pages (Download, etc.) that are kept current
<highvoltage> hmm, that would also make it easier to update with every release
<LaserJock> and then a namespace for archived info that is useful for people not using the latest release (release notes, etc.)
<highvoltage> you can just go through the category/namespace/whatever that is marked as current-type pages and make sure that they are up to date without having to go through everything
<LaserJock> so I was thinking something like:
<LaserJock>  /ReleaseNotes  (current release notes)
<LaserJock>  /8.10/ReleaseNotes (Intrepid release notes)
<LaserJock>  /8.04/ReleaseNotes (Hardy release notes)
<LaserJock> etc.
<LaserJock> I think we could do the same for the download pages and any releases-specific documents
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that sounds real nice. I'm surprised no one has suggested it before
<ball> Could we include a warning sign at the top? ;-)
<highvoltage> ball: what kind of warning sign?
<ball> How about a yellow triangle with a "!" in it, along with a short note and a link to the equivalent page for Jaunty?
<highvoltage> ball: we could add a banner for all pages withing a namespace that says "This document is relevant to Edubuntu 8.04 LTS, please refer to this other page for the current release"
<ball> highvoltage: yes, that'd work.
<highvoltage> We still don't really have an answer of how we're going to do this from a who's-going-to-do-what perspective
<LaserJock> yep
<highvoltage> I guess we could blog/announce it wherever possible and let people know that we're looking for people who can help with the site
<ball> I'll put the kettle on.
<highvoltage> some people have raised their hands on the list and said that they want to get involved but they don't know how
<highvoltage> the barrier of entry for drupal and moin is quite low, so pretty much anyone who has the time can get involved
<LaserJock> I also think it would not take a huge amount of effort
<LaserJock> if somebody put some steady work starting nowish I think it would be a pretty easy task
<highvoltage> LaserJock: probably not the site as much, but last when I looked at the wiki space it was a really big mess
<LaserJock> to start with it can just be organization without having to do a lot of content creating
<highvoltage> LaserJock: but if the website can just be fixed up that would be  a big win already
<LaserJock> yeah, I went through the wiki as well
<highvoltage> LaserJock: *yep
<LaserJock> basically we have a huge wiki structure that is *waaay* bigger than the team
<Lns> question - and this might be stupid to ask, but would it be totally out of the question to consolidate the wiki and the webpage?
<LaserJock> yes :-)
<Lns> ok =p
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu is for us as a team
<LaserJock> coordination, etc.
<highvoltage> Lns: that's a good and valid question. the reason for not merging is that we need a space that anyone can edit
<highvoltage> the wiki is good for that. otherwise we would have had to create users for everyone for drupal and set the appropriate rights, etc
<LaserJock> ideally the help.ubuntu.com/community wiki pages would mostly move to edubuntu.org once they are deemed "stable"
<highvoltage> I'll send a message to the list and ask around if we can get some hands involved, there's a website team as well with a bunch of people subscribed, perhaps we can pull them in
<highvoltage> I think we can revisit the website stuff further next week, are we ok with moving on to the next topic for this meeting?
<LaserJock> yeah, I think we've done about all we can
<highvoltage> Team Reports- We're supposed to do them monthly
<highvoltage> LaserJock: do you perhaps know when last we had a team report?
<LaserJock> I don't think we've ever done one
<highvoltage> I remember we used to have them when JaneW was around
<highvoltage> I can't remember when exactly they stopped though
<LaserJock> well, with the new team report thing anyway
<highvoltage> ah ok
<highvoltage> I think if we have weekly IRC meetings and keep it up, it will be easy to build at least some kind of a monthly report quite easily from the logs
<LaserJock> there is a team reporting template
<LaserJock> we just need a wiki page
<highvoltage> so we do weekly mini-reports on IRC which gets summarized and sent to the list, and then we can make a monthly report out of those about what happened during the period, status updates, blockers, etc
<LaserJock> *but* we also need things to put things in it
<Lns> For those not in #edubuntu, here are the list pages to subscribe: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users -- https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel -- https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-education
<Lns> I apologize everyone I have to go - granddad is in the hospital, need to go see him. Cheers all
<highvoltage> cheers Lns, thanks for coming
 * Lns will keep the chan open and review for later
<sbalneav> Does someone want an update from me?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: do the reports have to be in by a certain time of the month? (I assume end of month?)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: go for it
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it used to be by the 22nd
<LaserJock> highvoltage: not sure if that is still the case
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, I'll find out if that's still the case and send an update to the list
<LaserJock> highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports
<dgroos> Hi!
<highvoltage> hi dgroos
<highvoltage> sbalneav: You have some Sabyon and handbook updates?
<dgroos> I'm afraid I miscalculated times (drat daylight saving time) and so wont be able to be here!
<dgroos> I've got to run but, like Lns.  will leave the channel open for review later.
<sbalneav> Why yes. Yes I do.
<dgroos> sbalneav: just to let you know, I'm excited to see how sabayon is going.  adios all for now
<sbalneav> 1) Sabayon: I've had 5 people give me feedback  3 can now run it, 2 can't.  So that's a (counts on fingers) bazillion % better than the old situation of 0 people running it :)
<sbalneav> I'm making a pest of myself in #sabayon on irc.gnome.org, so I'm going to keep at them.
<sbalneav> We'll get this nailed down in time for release.
 * highvoltage hugs sbalneav 
<sbalneav> 2) LTSP upstream docs have been (more or less) up to date.  Currently sitting at 84 pages.
<sbalneav> I will now move on to updating the Edubuntu handbook, ripping out the LTSP stuff, as it'
<sbalneav> s been covered in the LTSP docs
<sbalneav> I need help with 2 things.
<sbalneav> a) LTSP upstream dock NEED NEED NEED NEED i18n
<sbalneav> Currently, they're english only.
<sbalneav> I need someone with knowledge of either po4a, or another way to internationalize a docbook document to give me a hand and show me the light.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I saw some discussion on the handbook in #ltsp this afternoon, it's kept in a bzr branch isn't it?
<sbalneav> b) I need help on how to package.....
<sbalneav> yes
<sbalneav> lp:~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk
<highvoltage> what format/markup is it in?
<sbalneav> ....package the docs, specifically, with an eye to making them yelp-able.
<highvoltage> oh docbook, sorry I missed it before
<sbalneav> docbook.
<sbalneav> So if one of you packaging wizards can gimme a hand...
<sbalneav> 3) Bug triaging
<LaserJock> sbalneav: is ltsp-docs going to be a package?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: are there lots of bugs assigned to the documentation currently?
<LaserJock> we can use the same tools as for the Ubuntu Docs and Rosetta
<sbalneav> Once I get the handbook sorted (I'm going to be going on holidays soon, and I expect to spend my time at my cottage editing the handbook 'CUZ I'M A FREAKING IDIOT) done in about 2-3 weeks, I'll move on to handling some of the crasher bugs.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: That's my intention, yes.
<sbalneav> highvoltage: which, the upstream ltsp, or edubunut-handbook
<sbalneav> So if someone would like to work with me when bug season is open to prioritize the crashers they'd like fixed, I'd be obliged.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: both, since you mentioned triaging
<sbalneav> Oh, I was talking all the other package bugs
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> sbalneav: we need to get more people from #ltsp to work on these things in edubuntu
<LaserJock> phew
<sbalneav> Like who? :)
<LaserJock> we're up to 278 open bugs :(
<sbalneav> Ogra's too busy, stgrabers already working, vagrant's full time on debian, etc :)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Yeah, I'd like to see that come down.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: heh, good point
<LaserJock> perhaps we need to tap into general Ubuntu resources more
<sbalneav> A lot of them could probably be handled by updating the upstream.
<LaserJock> IMO, #ltsp and #edubuntu people are generally going to be either 1) to busy already or 2) not technically adept enough at the moment
<LaserJock> I think we need to look at #ubuntu-bugs and the Ubuntu Bugsquad
<LaserJock> after all, our packages *are* in the Ubuntu repos
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'll start attacking some of the low-hanging fruit as soon as stgraber and I have most of the ltsp-cluster packaging in shape. I've learned a lot from him the last few weeks, so I should be able to actually do more fixing there
<LaserJock> so we shouldn't get a "we have to do everything all by ourselves" mentality
<highvoltage> and if anyone comes across a bug that isn't very complex from a packaging perspective, feel free to subscribe me
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is likely to never have a super strong developer community
<Ahmuck-Jr> working with ubuntu-ltsp i could
<Ahmuck-Jr> er, it could
<LaserJock> I doubt it
<sbalneav> I'd like to see us maybe get some of the kde-edu and/or debian-edu people helping us out.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep. sabdfl once had a blog entry about work that is "sexy" and work that is not, and things like bzr, upstart, etc are much more "sexier" things to work on for lots of people than education related stuff
<LaserJock> I mean, we've always had a pretty small group, even at Edubuntu's largest
<highvoltage> LaserJock: well, I think it could always have been bigger than it was
<LaserJock> I think we should leverage the broader Ubuntu community
<sbalneav> ltsp already has an exceedingly small developer community, for the size of project it is.
<LaserJock> just because our stuff isn't "sexy" doesn't mean we can't guilt developers into sponsoring work ;-)
<mhall119|work> hi
<highvoltage> LaserJock: but I do agree, as edubuntu we should really try to use whatever is available to us instead of trying to build rome ourselves
<highvoltage> LaserJock: heh, good strategy!
<LaserJock> "think of the kids!!!!"
<mhall119|work> just wanted to mention, I make Qimo (http://qimo4kids.com), and if there's any way my project can help yours, I'm all for it
<Ahmuck-Jr> edubuntu can be done with a simple ubuntu install and adding the edu apps by aptitude.  setting edubuntu apart as a schoolbuntu distro would make more sense.  if your wanting it in schools, you need "classroom" type of setup
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I'm glad you're here, we talked about Qimo at UDS
<mhall119|work> oh yeah?
<LaserJock> anyway, as far as bug triage goes it's a general task, you don't have to have a ton of app-specific knowledge
<mhall119|work> wish I could have gone, had a couple of friends go though
<LaserJock> a huge amount of our bugs just need to be triaged and forwarded
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: we'd *really* like to get you involved, and perhaps, if possible, and if you're wiling, try to get some of the Qimo packages into ubuntu so that someone could just install a qimo desktop
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: there's not much in Qimo that isn't already in Ubuntu's repos
<mhall119|work> I don't have any deb packages yet, I'm working on that for the next release, will either setup a PPA for them, or host a separate repository on my server
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: exactly, so adding the qimo desktop to ubuntu would only require a few small packages
<mhall119|work> in theory, yes
<mhall119|work> right now, my "custom desktop" is just a pre-configured /home/qimo directory
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: well, I can't promise anything for now, but at least long-term, we're more than happy to lend you a hand there
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: if there isn't any conflicts or Qimo-specific modifications you could do it all in the Ubuntu repo
<mhall119|work> LaserJock: what is the process of getting my packages into Universe?
 * mhall119|work is new to all this
<mhall119|work> sorry, I didn't mean to side-track the meeting, just wanted to offer what I could
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: I could give you a big long talk on that but #ubuntu-motu is the channel that would help you out
<mhall119|work> thanks
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I'm *very* familiar with how Xfce implements it's custom panels and settings in a standard way, I could help you convert it to the correct /etc/xdg/xfce4 structure so that you don't have to do that anymore
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: but we can talk about that outside of the meeting as well
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: I'd like that very much
<LaserJock> mhall119|work:  having built a few derivatives myself I'd strongly encourage you to work on getting your packages into Universe
<mhall119|work> which mailing list should I join?  users or devel?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: are you on the edubuntu-devel mailing list? I think it would be great if you could join.
<mhall119|work> or ubuntu-education?
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: -devel would probably be the most appropriate I think
<mhall119|work> what the heck, I'll join them all
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: you could join that as well, but edubuntu-devel is the one to join
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: welcome aboard :)
<mhall119|work> thanks
<LaserJock> depending on how things work out I wouldn't mind seeing Qimo as the default for Edubuntu for the preschool category
<mhall119|work> it'd need some extra stuff, Qimo wasn't made for a classroom setting, so there's not much management software
<LaserJock> well, Edubuntu isn't *just* classrooms
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: are there any branding issues that would disallow you from having any qimo artwork in ubuntu?
<mhall119|work> does edubuntu use content filtering for internet?
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: my graphics guy has made it all creative commons, attribution, share alike
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: those are more ubuntu-server kind of focusses, but they are important areas in edubuntu, we haven't spent any time on those recently
<mhall119|work> so as long as the Ubuntu guidelines are cool with that, it's good
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: not by default
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: great!
<mhall119|work> I ask because I'm going to try Dan's Guardian in Qimo 2
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: I think it would really be worthwhile to discuss some sort of partnership between Qimo and Edubuntu
<mhall119|work> #edubuntu?
<mhall119|work> is that the channel?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: indeed
<LaserJock> yep
<mhall119|work> cool
<highvoltage> we'll probably move there soon so that we don't clobber up #ubuntu-meeting too long
<mhall119|work> ok
<Ahmuck-Jr> my work is in the pre - 2nd grade category, and i agree about qimo
<highvoltage> shall we wrap up and decide on our next meeting time?
<mhall119|work> there's also #qimo, but it's rarely used
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I'm really concerned about the technical bits of getting Karmic out
<LaserJock> we don't even know what medium we're using
<LaserJock> we haven't done anything with package selection/review, etc.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: can we take that to #edubuntu? or would you rather keep it as part of this meeting?
<LaserJock> well, we've gone the hour, we can move to #edubuntu
<highvoltage> LaserJock: any suggestion for the next meeting time?
<LaserJock> whenever, I'm really likely to not make any more that aren't 9-5 for me
<LaserJock> once I start my job I'll be behind an Air Force network running Windows :(
<highvoltage> what times UTC are good for you?
<mhall119|work> LaserJock: I'm like that here, have irssi running on an outside server, using ssh to connect to it
<mhall119|work> but the USAF might not appreciate you working around that
<LaserJock> not really I don't think
<LaserJock> I don't think I'll even have ssh
<ball> carrier pigeon
<highvoltage> there's mibbit... but we can discuss getting around USAF's ISA servers later in #edubuntu
<highvoltage> let's decide on the next meeting time first
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you know, I really can't say right now what times are going to be good
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, we just need enough advance time so that we can put it on the appropriate calendars, UWN, etc
<LaserJock> but like 10:00 UTC - 12:00UTC and then 22:00UTC -
<highvoltage> Wednesday 12:00 UTC?
<highvoltage> sbalneav, mhall119|work (and others): will that work for you?
<LaserJock> I won't make that in the next 2 weeks but I think we need to get away form 18:00-19:00 for a while
<sbalneav> okdokie
<LaserJock> *from
<mhall119|work> what's that in EST?
<LaserJock> 8am I think
<highvoltage> yes it is
<mhall119|work> I'd likely be in transit
<mhall119|work> I usually get to work about 9am EST, so anytime after that I can make
<highvoltage> 13:00 UTC then?
 * mhall119|work needs an Android phone so he's available anytime
<mhall119|work> that would work for me
<highvoltage> LaserJock?
<LaserJock> that's at least a possibility for me
<LaserJock> that's 6am here
<highvoltage> ok, so let's make it so
<highvoltage> Wednesday 13:00
<highvoltage> any last words before I hit the meeting-over-gong?
<LaserJock> nope
<highvoltage> We'll be moving over to #edubuntu for technical discussions relating to karmic.
<highvoltage> LaserJock, Lns, alkisg, ball, e-jat, sbalneav, dgroos, mhall119|work: thanks for attending this meeting
<highvoltage> *gong*
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-17
<InSearchOf> no ubuntu-mobile meeting today?
<plars> InSearchOf: It's on Tuesday, are you on the mailing list?
<InSearchOf> plars, I am now
 * lool waves
 * ogra yawns
<slangasek> morning, folks
 * fader_ waves.
<cjwatson_> hi
<cjwatson> I'm having networking problems today - hopefully I'll stay online, but ...
<heno> hey
<slangasek> pgraner, davidm, Riddell, sbeattie, Hobbsee, ScottK, apw: ping
<sbeattie> hey
<lool> There's a storm here; my internet might drop even if I still appear connected
<Riddell> hello
<ScottK> \o
<davidm> sladen, pgraner is traveling today
<davidm> slangasek, pgraner is traveling today
<slangasek> ok
 * apw is here
<pitti> hello, sorry for being late
<slangasek> Robbie is off, it appears
<slangasek> and dendrobates is traveling
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-07-17
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-07-17
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
<slangasek> ScottK: about?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> Stuck my hand up a few minutes ago
<ScottK> slangasek: You can reassign the Kubuntu netbook test case one to me.
<slangasek> ScottK: rgreening tells me he doesn't know what he's supposed to do for .. right, gotcha :)
<rgreening> :)
<slangasek> ScottK: I have kubuntu-netbook on the ISO tracker, do you know generally what the set of test cases should be for it?
<ScottK> slangasek: I generally it will (for now) be the same as desktop.  The main difference is in install instructions.
<ScottK> image I typed a few more words in that sentence.
<rgreening> lol
<ScottK> image/imagine
<rgreening> ty ScottK.
 * ScottK loooks for coffee again.
<slangasek> ScottK: the full set of install options, including OEM, migration assistant, wubi?
 * rgreening was a bit out of his element...
<slangasek> cjwatson: had any luck with DVD size explosion?
<ScottK> slangasek: Let's discuss after the meeting, OK?
<slangasek> pitti: is the --install-layout=deb patch forwarded to Debian?
<slangasek> ScottK: sure
<pitti> slangasek: sorry, that slipped; still on TODO list
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> slangasek: sorry, not as yet :-(
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
<heno> hi
<slangasek> hello
<heno> fader_: has some mixed news on HW testing
<fader_> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader_> The Montreal office (where the laptops are located) has moved to a new location, so cr3 has been working to get the lab put back together and working again.
<fader_> He has also retrieved the laptops that were being used for testing by the support team and we have put some guidelines into place to prevent them from being out of the automated testing for more than 5 days in the future.
<fader_> We have an intern who is testing the laptops today, so we should have better data for them next week.  This will include things like opening/closing the lids, etc. that cannot be done automatically, so this will be very valuable
<fader_> There have been some issues with automated server testing, including bug 400007
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 400007 in checkbox "Boot event stored in old location as of upstart 0.6" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400007
<fader_> Upstart changed where it looked for boot events, so installs were going on but no tests were being launched.  cr3 fixed this bug as of yesterday so again we should see fresh results coming in and have better data for next week.
 * slangasek nods
<fader_> That's all my news on the hardware testing front
<heno> karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption:
<heno> The LP team is still having trouble deploying so I've had to punt this to alpha 4 :(
<heno> (blueprint updated)
<slangasek> ok
<heno> that's all from QA
<slangasek> alright, thanks
<slangasek> anyone have questions for QA?
<slangasek> fader_: I notice ESX is among the "untested" units in the hw testing report; ESX availability isn't becoming a problem again, is it?
<fader_> slangasek: It had not gotten tested for a while for an unknown reason.  I got it working again for the 8.04.3 tests and now it should get results along with the other servers once the changes from bug 400007 take effect
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 400007 in checkbox "Boot event stored in old location as of upstart 0.6" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400007
<slangasek> ok
<fader_> I've got my eye on it specifically as we added some new VMs to the pool to test
<slangasek> sounds good
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
<slangasek> pitti rickspencer3_: hello
<pitti> as usual, current status about bugs, A3, and release is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> this week we saw the landing of empathy and ubuntuone file sync in the default install
<pitti> we also fixed gdm harder, it's good enough for alpha-3 now; autologin setup is still missing, Robert Ancell will work on a replacement
<pitti> the structural changes we planned for a3 are now done
<pitti> for a3 we will update the intel driver and mesa again (nothing major, just bug fixes), and concentrate on major bug fixing.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> oh, and I poked David
<pitti> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-karmic-os-switcher just got drafted, I'll review that ASAP
<slangasek> is there a tracking bug for gdm autologin setup?
<pitti> slangasek: yes, that and a blueprint; let me find it
<pitti> bug 395299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 395299 in gdm "gdm 2.26 has no graphical configuration tool" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/395299
<slangasek> thanks
 * slangasek finishes digesting status
<slangasek> anything anyone else needs to bring up re: desktop?
 * ScottK hands slangasek some Rolaids
<slangasek> (r-o-l-a-i-d-s spells "release"?)
<slangasek> btw, late minute switch-up on the agenda here; ttx is covering for the server team today and has a conflict, so we'll go to him next after desktop
<lool> Pff damn Frenchs
<ttx> lool: :P
<slangasek> pitti: the "changes since alpha-2" list is quite nice, do we have someone who can document those in the tech overview?
<pitti> o/
<pitti> in personal unity with being the A3 release manager, I guess :)
<slangasek> :-)
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to document "changes since alpha-2" from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus in the tech overview for alpha-3
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to document "changes since alpha-2" from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus in the tech overview for alpha-3
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
<ttx> o/
<slangasek> ttx: bug 385475 is the only one I have tracked; any news from upstream?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385475 in likewise-open5 "[Karmic] Likewise-Open 5 fails to authenticate users" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385475
<ttx> slangasek: no news. I've escalated this. If the situation doesn't change *very quickly* I'll start designing backup solutions
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> the package is in universe, so if upstream doesn't deliver, I guess we don't have any support committment?
<ttx> true. But the plan was to move the likewise-open5 to replace likewise-open (4) in main.
<slangasek> ok
<ttx> That is what would be compromised is they don't deliver anything
<ttx> s/is/if/
 * ScottK is trying to get clamav 0.95.2 ready for a microversion update in Jaunty, but continuing 'fun' with clamav-milter is slowing the work.
<slangasek> I also saw one a3-targeted spec that wasn't completed yet, server-karmic-kvm-qemu-packaging - is that on track?
<ttx> kirkland just remilestoned it to a4. Package is in NEW queue but the version we want for karmic isn't released upstream yet.
<slangasek> ok
<ttx> So the work is done, but the feature can't land right now
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> anything else for server team?
<ttx> I'll start pushing Java libraries to the MIR process very soon
<ttx> The ones we are 99.99% sure will be required for eucalyptus-in-main
<slangasek> how many of those are coming?
<ttx> and their fellow dependencies.
<ttx> Last estimate is a total of 78
<slangasek> oy
<slangasek> please get those going ASAP, then :/
<ScottK> It could be one if you like embedded code copies ....
<lool> ouch
<slangasek> as long as you don't mind one MIR that's rejected :)
<ttx> I've gotten rid of most large things, so this is more a set of simple libraries
<ttx> However, there is still a mountain of them, since nothing pushed them to main yet
 * slangasek nods
<ttx> I got rid of about 40 by playing tricks...
<ttx> but now the tricks aren't worth it
<slangasek> sure
<ttx> and we are still at ~80.
<ttx> To spread the load I'll start the 99.99 set next week.
<slangasek> please keep us apprised of progress, then
<ttx> but we can't complete that until we have a final idea of what Eucalyptus will finally require.
<ttx> slangasek: Sure.
 * pitti sighs
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
<slangasek> ttx: thanks for making yourself available :)
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<lool> Hotest topics are:
<lool> * armv7 buildds: qemu probably wont be deployed as v7 boards to use as buildds are almost being shipped to IS and myself; we still lack BSP for them so it will take some time to set these as buildds (and we need to benchmark/evaluate them)
<ttx> slangasek: my late pleasure :)
<lool> * mx51 kernel: good progress from kernel team; probably wont make it for Alpha 3 but at least the kernel boots to console now, so it's easier to sort out remaining drivers issues
<ogra> *grin* almost being shipped
<lool> I don't have anything release worthy to discuss; things are delayed by lack of hardware mostly
<slangasek> "almost" being shipped? :)
<lool> slangasek: It was shipped yesterday but today I heard it wasn't...
<slangasek> lool: what's "BSP"?
<slangasek> heh
<lool> Board Support Package: a tarball with binaries and source code to build your bootloader and kernel etc.
<lool> Kind of a board SDK
<slangasek> ok
<lool> The other thing blocking on the marvell side is permission to publish which we had today
<lool> So not much will happen for A3 (UNR drops planned next week)
<ogra> the current buildd situation would probably be worth mentioning ?
<lool> ogra: 17:35 < lool> * armv7 buildds: qemu probably wont be deployed as v7 boards to  use as buildds are almost being shipped to IS and myself; we  still lack BSP for them so it will take some time to set these as  buildds (and we need to benchmark/evaluate them)
<lool> ogra: Oh you mean the v5 delays
<ogra> i meant the build probs :)
<lool> Yeah that's valid
<ogra> yeah
<lool> We have a bunch of builds failing due to timeouts
<lool> We weren't able to reproduce on the porter box or on our boards
<lool> It's affecting random packages like mesa and KDE when they lzma compress their .debs
<ogra> the timeout is set to 10h on the armel builders now ...
<ogra> which didnt suffice ...
<lool> We didn't identify what caused that regression; Michael is working with IS in troubleshooting this
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> on the kernel side, is the "boot to console" version going to be in the archive for a3, or is it still being tweaked out in git?
<lool> My understanding was that it wouldn't be there
<lool> I was hoping the kernel team would share more details; I think the rebase is still very rough
<slangasek> alrighty
<rtg_> AFAIK the console boot locks up after awhile.
<lool> It's mostly good news because it means we aren't stuck there anymore with unknown delays in getting it working
<slangasek> lool: 391588 is about banshee, which pitti's report says is not going to be default for karmic; should we drop the karmic targeting?
<lool> slangasek: Ack
<pitti> well, "most likely not"
<pitti> the spec has some hard conditions, and right now it looks like they aren't going to be fixed by karmic
<ogra> its very likely that banshee is only a fallout of a deeper layered vorbis/gstreamer issue
<slangasek> ok, so perhaps that should be kept on the map for now
<lool> Plus I never recall how to untrack for the dev series
<ogra> probably until dyfet has more info, he is researching vorbis atm
<slangasek> lool, ogra: anything else?
<ogra> not from me
<lool> I wrote what I had in the wiki page :)
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel team
<slangasek> rtg_, apw: hi
 * rtg_ standing in for pgraner.
<rtg_> Most of our other release tasks are in pretty good shape: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<rtg_> Per the release meeting agenda, bugs 359338, 290153, 384579 are all in progress.
<rtg_> I expect a full court press on the AA/ecryptfs and AA/DHCP issues since I consider them show-stoppers
<rtg_> if AA is enabled by default.
<rtg_> jdstrand tells me he's uploading a fix for the AA/dhcp issue.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359338 in linux "apparmor paths are broken when using ecryptfs on jaunty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359338
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290153 in linux "Fails to find boot device in Intel D945Gnt" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290153
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384579 in linux "Linux thinks thereâs a floppy drive when thereâs not. Probing slows down bootup by almost a minute." [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384579
<rtg_> ARM still has some issues, but is booting on Babbage 1 and 2. Amit, Brad, Manoj and a Freescale engineer are
<rtg_> working it full time.
<rtg_> stop.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ScottK> rtg_: Please give me a ping after the upload for 290153.  I can test it.
<lool> rtg_: I'm not sure we should cover it here, but do you have plans for Babbage 2.5 support in jaunty?  I understand it wont be a SRU after all?
<rtg_> ScottK, actuall, keep in touch with apw on that as he's working it.
<ScottK> OK.  Well assuming he reads his IRC, then he knows now.
<apw> ack
<rtg_> lool, Babbage in a topic branch (I think) for Jaunty. I'll have to confirm with Amit
<slangasek> rtg_: what's the AA/DHCP issue?  I haven't seen mention of this
<rtg_> DHCP was failing if AA was enabled.
<slangasek> bug #?
<rtg_> bug #400349
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 400349 in linux "dhclient-script fails with apparmor" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400349
<slangasek> thanks
<rtg_> AFAIK there is only one bug preventing AA from being enabled by default
<rtg_> i.e., the ecryptfs issues.
<rtg_> thats pretty much it from me.
<slangasek> should enabling it necessarily be delayed for that bug?  IIRC that bug was also present in jaunty, right?
 * ttx disappears
<rtg_> slangasek, that is what jjohansen has told me, but I was unaware of that.
<rtg_> If so, then perhaps we _can_ enable it by default. I'll talk to him about it.
<slangasek> ok
<apw> it is correct that the behaviour exists in Jaunty, there is also a workaround
<jjohansen> correct
<jjohansen> the same work around applies to Karmic as well
<rtg_> if that is the consensus, then I'd say lets turn it on.
<jjohansen> there is another bug that was raised yesterday however that may cause problems
<jjohansen> it breaks networking for people not using Network manager
<jjohansen> lpn400349
<rtg_> jjohansen, wasn't that the one jdstrand is fixing?
<jdstrand> yes
<jjohansen> rtg_: there are two components to it
<jdstrand> a fix will be uploaded soon
<jdstrand> (the dhcp3 part)
<jjohansen> there is a kernel regression there
<jjohansen> with a fixed profile it shouldn't cause networking to fail however
<pitti> rtg_: do you plan another  kernel upload for a3? would be nice to do a pull on drm-intel-next, to get the latest fixes for alpha-3
<rtg_> pitti, why would I pull from there? It needs to come Linus at this point.
<pitti> rtg_: ah, ok; so, just the first part of the question then :)
<apw> pitti, we should get a new -rc around monday i would presume
<pitti> the userspace driver (2.8.0) will be released monday, and we were testing daily git snapshots
<rtg_> pitti, if we decide to enable AA by default, then I'd do another upload.
<pitti> but the kernel side needs some fixes pulled in as well
<pitti> good, thanks
<rtg_> pitti, ok, then they need to be proposed on the u-k-t list
<slangasek> apw: but presumably also with a new ABI?  Best not to upload that Monday of the milestone unless there's a particular reason for it
<apw> it would be an abi bumper yes
<slangasek> (especially with release resources stretched a little thin next week due to DebConf)
<cjwatson> FWIW I don't get to debconf until thursday
<cjwatson> err. tuesday
<cjwatson> days sorta blur
<rtg_> slangasek, are you happy with the current kernel? We can postpone uploads until after A3.
<pitti> ok, so we better find the grave installer problems on Monday :)
<slangasek> rtg_: there are no screaming bugs jumping out at us in the milestone list, so yes, I'm happy :)
<rtg_> slaok, then we'll just wait.
<rtg_> slangasek, ^^
<pitti> alrighty
<rtg_> apw, did you note that?
<pitti> rtg_: (the pending intel fixes are not OMGearthshattering)
<apw> rtg ack
<rtg_> pitti, common vernacular refers to kittens :)
<slangasek> kitten shattering is unpleasant
<rtg_> true
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
<slangasek> rtg_, apw: thanks, guys
<slangasek> jjohansen: also thanks
<cjwatson> main news this week is that we've dropped the proposed i586 change, because it turned out from tests that it didn't actually help
<cjwatson> we're already building with -mtune=generic, and it turned out that gcc-4.4 changes gave us most of the benefits we saw in the earlier benchmarks
<cjwatson> we may investigate -mtune=core2 in the future
<rtg_> cjwatson, does that mean I can enable a true i386 flavour in ports?
<cjwatson> still, it's good to have that actually verified from code
<cjwatson> rtg_: yeah, looks like it
<slangasek> "true i386"?
<cjwatson> the -386 flavour that's existed for ages
<rtg_> slangasek, i386 instruction set
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<Keybuk> rtg_: but we build everything with the i486 instruction set
<slangasek> rtg_: the userspace binaries are all still built for the 486 insn set
<slangasek> and IIRC, that gives problems with cmpxchg?
<cjwatson> -386 is still less than -generic and there are cases where it has been useful
<cjwatson> i.e. I have verifiably solved people's installation problems by pointing them at -386
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<cjwatson> so it isn't useless although it may be that it doesn't need to be as far down as 386
<slangasek> cjwatson: not disputing that, just pointing out that there's no reason to have a true 386 kernel when the userspace won't run on 386
<cjwatson> sure, 486 would be fine
<Keybuk> if we have a -386 can we put pae into -generic? :) :) :)
<cjwatson> aaaanyway
<rtg_> Keybuk, right, 486 instruction set. there are only a few differences, cheif among them are the bus locking prefixes IIRC
<cjwatson> Keybuk: which slows things down, why would you want that? :)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<cjwatson> speaking of perf, Keybuk just filed bug 400746 which is critical for our efforts there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 400746 in ubuntuone-client "ubuntu one client takes too long to start" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400746
<cjwatson> I've added it to our tracking page
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I've already lost that battle with kees and his -fvogon-security-checks flags
<cjwatson> it's more than all his flags put together apart from PIE (which isn't on by default), AIUI
<cjwatson> our a3 specs are mostly on track; for rsyslog, we still need to complete a librelp MIR
<cjwatson> and I have a bunch of code mostly written but need to upload for server-installer; that'll happen by Monday at the latest
<cjwatson> Evan said on Wednesday that he's still happy aiming usb-creator-windows for a3, but that hasn't landed yet AFAICS so I'll check into that with him
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> is someone working on the librelp MIR currently?
<cjwatson> the ia32-libs bug on the status page is as you might expect best resolved by taking a deep breath and doing one of those horrific ia32-libs updates, but I think I have that figured out
<cjwatson> slangasek: mterry has been checking into it with upstream
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> ia32-libs> yes, I keep looking at that bug and using it as an incentive to poke at multiarch
<pitti> I'll follow up on that with dobey
<slangasek> pitti: on ia32-libs?
<cjwatson> I'm working on it in https://launchpad.net/~cjwatson/+archive/ia32-libs-testing
<pitti> slangasek: hm?
<slangasek> pitti: you'll follow up on "that"?  Are you referring to ubuntuone?
<pitti> slangasek: yes, to the slow ubuntuone startup
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> nothing more here ...
<slangasek> no questions from me
<slangasek> anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<ScottK> \o
<slangasek> ScottK: hi
<ScottK> No major news for MOTU.
<ScottK> Still considering a GHC6 update.
<ScottK> Always more work to do on REVU and uus queue, but no suprise there.
<cjwatson> NBS is quite big at the moment - are there any coordinated transition efforts happening? thinking of things like libkrb53
<slangasek> are we missing information needed to decide on ghc6?
<ScottK> cjwatson: There are not.  We can take a look at that.
<ScottK> We need to work on killing off more boost versions too.
 * ScottK will send mail to the MOTU ML to remind people.
<cjwatson> cool, thanks
<ScottK> For Kubuntu Alpha 3 we have KDE 4.3 RC2.
<cjwatson> I do a few haphazardly as I notice them but it needs more than just me obviously :)
<cjwatson> (and I'm sure other archive admins are doing bits and pieces too)
<ScottK> We should (not yet uploaded I don't think) have our first Kubuntu Ayatana/Dx contribution uploaded before Alpha 3 too.
<slangasek> I can probably spend some time on NBS today
<ScottK> Kubuntu Netbook Edition image will be new for Alpha 3.
<slangasek> \o/
<pitti> sorry, I fell off the internet
<pitti> any q for me from the last 7 minutes?
<ScottK> Features are mostly on track.  No major problems I'm aware of.
<ScottK> pitti: No.
<cjwatson> ScottK: KNE> is it working properly now?
<ScottK> cjwatson: I didn't test today's image yet, so I don't know for sure.
<ScottK> Except for the one background image it's all been good so far.
<slangasek> ScottK: I put a couple of bugs in the agenda under MOTU, high-importance bugs for universe packages; neither is assigned to anyone currently, I don't know if you want to take ownership of those and rustle up some MOTU to take them?
<ScottK> slangasek: I'll try and drum someone up.
 * ScottK decides to actually read the agenda now.
<ScottK> I'll talk to slangasek after the meeting about netbook specifics for Alpha 3.
<ScottK> That's all I have.
<slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK to mail MOTU ML about NBS cleanups
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to mail MOTU ML about NBS cleanups
<slangasek> ScottK: ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
<slangasek> empathy has landed, which has impacted CD sizes quite a bit
<cody-somerville> gdm has landed, its impacted CD sizes quite a bit :P
<slangasek> pitti: I think you said you'd removed the last of the langpacks from one of the CDs to get them down to size?
<pitti> I did
<pitti> today's are within the boundaries again
<slangasek> cody-somerville: AIUI the fix for that is known and in progress, unlike for Ubuntu...
 * pitti sheds a tear
<cjwatson> on DVDs, I'm seriously considering reducing the number of language-support-* packages present
<slangasek> right - so we've gotten karmic to fit on a CD, at the cost of it being English only
<cjwatson> would anyone object to that?
<pitti> slangasek: for Ubuntu, the soyuz change for ripping out gnome help files has landed, but needs buildd changes still; but at least it's underway now
<slangasek> cjwatson: if that's what it takes, I say go for it
<slangasek> pitti: ok, great
<slangasek> pitti: how much is that going to win us?
<pitti> +1 for dropping some lang-support
<pitti> slangasek: potentially, in the order of 50 to 80 MB (can't quite remember)
<pitti> slangasek: of course we wouldn't actually get this, since we want to have some langpacks on the CDs
<pitti> (which bring back the files which we ripped out)
<slangasek> one possible size savings for CDs would be to figure out how to get rid of gtkhtml now that we have webkit (for epiphany)
<pitti> that too
<slangasek> pitti: 50-80MB> wow, ok
<pitti> we
<pitti> we don't ship epiphany, but it's pulled in by empathy anyway
<slangasek> yes
<pitti> so yelp etc. can now use it as well
<slangasek> will that make the yelp binary smaller?
<pitti> ah, yelp uses xul, not gtkhtml, ignore me
<slangasek> ah :(
<slangasek> let's get rid of xulrunner, should be a weekend's work
<pitti> hah
<ogra> not switch FF to webkit ?
<slangasek> anything else we might be able to trim?
<slangasek> :/
<cjwatson> I got rid of a few unnecessary installer components already
<cjwatson> but won't have made a huge difference, a few hundred KB ...
 * slangasek nods
<pitti> slangasek: FYI: tar c  /usr/share/gnome/help/ | gzip | wc -c -> 92 MB
<pitti> 82, sorry
<slangasek> ok... everyone keep your eyes peeled for possible savings, please - if we need to grab people to help chisel a library or two free, we can probably do that
<slangasek> pitti: ah, nice
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> one minute - any last words?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:30.
<slangasek> in fact, zero minutes :)
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<pitti> thanks everyone
<ScottK> slangasek: Where do you want to discuss the netbook stuff?
<slangasek> ScottK: #-release, I suppose
<ScottK> KO
<ScottK> ok even
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-20
<soren> Do we have a DMB meeting? My phone just informed me that we do, but I'm on Pacific time, so I can't really make it :(
<cjwatson> hi
<cjwatson> I believe so
<cjwatson> persia,geser,nixternal,stgraber: ping
<stgraber> pong
<geser> pong
<persia> pong
<cjwatson> I chaired last time
<cjwatson> can somebody please volunteer for chair?  four is quorm
<cjwatson> +u
 * persia will chair
<persia> OK.
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:09. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<statik> hello everyone
<persia> Agenda is at:
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<persia> [TOPIC] Action Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items
<stgraber> I'm currently on 3G in a bus, so my internet is all but reliable (and I have a latency of 1000ms). So it might take a while before I answer, sorry ...
<persia> [ACTION] Cody to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Cody to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first
 * persia tries to puzzle out wiki history harder
<geser> the applications/agenda items are ordered by the time of their addition
<persia> Oh, excellent!
<geser> or more exactly numbered
<persia> [TOPIC] NetworkManager Package Set upload application for Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre
<MootBot> New Topic:  NetworkManager Package Set upload application for Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre
<cjwatson> cyphermox said to me in person that he might not be able to make it; but I think this was due to miscommunication of meeting time so this may no longer be true
<cyphermox> I am there
<cjwatson> persia: we need to decide on the package set itself first
<cyphermox> (sorry about the confusion on this)
<persia> Ah, right.
<persia> [TOPIC] Network Manager package set
<MootBot> New Topic:  Network Manager package set
<geser> didn't we defer it due to missing feedback from asac?
<cjwatson> ... I could go and beat asac until he shows up here
<asac> hey
<asac> i am fully supportive for cyphermox application for nm and friends upload rights
<asac> he has been doing an awesome job for quite some time
<persia> asac: We're still trying to sort the packageset:
<asac> and is more than familiar with the problems involved there
<persia> See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-June/000072.html
<asac> sure
<asac> those packages look good
<asac> maybe even wpasupplicant ... though thats well maintianed in debian
<asac> do you need more info?
<persia> Does anyone have questions about the packageset before we vote?
<persia> cyphermox: Do you have an explicit opinion about addition/non-addition of wpasupplicant?
 * geser has none
<cyphermox> persia; I'm fine with showing up again at a later time for wpasupplicant given I have never touched it before. I agree it should eventually be part of the set
<stgraber> no question
<persia> I'm tempted to add wpasupplicant to the set if asac and cyphermox think it belongs, unless anyone has an opinion otherwise.
<cjwatson> I have no objection
<asac> cool
<asac> thanks ... (... also for poking me persia ;))
<stgraber> Is wpa_supplicant used by something else than NM ? if not, I'm fine with it being part of the NM set
<persia> [VOTE] A Network Manager package set to be established containing network-manager, network-manager-applet, network-manager-pptp, network-manager-openvpn, network-manager-vpnc, network-manager-openconnect, modemmanager, wpasupplicant, with membership in the associated developer group to be administered by the DMB
<MootBot> Please vote on:  A Network Manager package set to be established containing network-manager, network-manager-applet, network-manager-pptp, network-manager-openvpn, network-manager-vpnc, network-manager-openconnect, modemmanager, wpasupplicant, with membership in the associated developer group to be administered by the DMB.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cyphermox> stgraber, afaik, it will eventually be used by connman
<cyphermox> (if not already)
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<stgraber> (sorry, lost internet for a few minutes)
<persia> cjwatson: Would you be up for creating that set in LP?
<stgraber> cyphermox: will you also take care of conman or will that be someone else ?
<cjwatson> yep
<cjwatson> action me
<cyphermox> stgraber, I will be taking care of it as well
<persia> [ACTION] cjwatson to create network-manager packageset and associated development group in launchpad.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to create network-manager packageset and associated development group in launchpad.
<persia> [TOPIC] NetworkManager Package Set upload application for Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre
<MootBot> New Topic:  NetworkManager Package Set upload application for Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mtrudel/PPUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mtrudel/PPUApplication
<persia> cyphermox: You see to have only asac's live testimonial and no comments in your application: did you have trouble in your comment solicitation process?
<cyphermox> persia, it's more that I've been doing nm-related work mostly only with asac
<asac> persia: i added my comments ot a different page a while ago
<asac> that was about a per package upload application i think rather than a package set
<asac> so i guess we just didnt move it over
<cyphermox> asac: motu
<asac> really? hmm
<asac> then i got confused
<persia> Probably https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mtrudel/DeveloperApplication (which is a bit old)
<persia> asac: If you want to confirm that the comments from that apply to the current application, that's fine (if you don't want to copy/paste for some reason)
<geser> cyphermox: any ideas on how we could make SRUs easier while keeping regressions low? (from your "like least" section)
<cyphermox> geser, yes. It basically boils down to more testing, and perhaps even doing pre-proposed testing in PPAs and the like
<cyphermox> I was fond of suggesting using other systems I have access to, but it's not easily feasible, sadly
<asac> the network-manager parts are valid. let me know if you need me to add more content there. but please dont hold back the approval process because of that if possible
<geser> cyphermox: how do you plan to get the attention of user for the testing or can you do that even without users?
<asac> added endorsement
<cyphermox> actually, i think we can do some amounts of testing without users as well... I'm working hard atm to get more testing done using checkbox, and I think we should strive to enable unit testing where available
<cyphermox> e.g. NetworkManager, for example ;)
<persia> Any other questions?
<geser> no
<stgraber> nope
<cjwatson> nope
<persia> [VOTE] Confirm Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre (cyphermox) as a Network Manager developer
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre (cyphermox) as a Network Manager developer.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<asac> \o/
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<persia> cyphermox: Congratulations
<cyphermox> thanks!
<persia> [TOPIC] Contributing Developer application for David Sugar
<MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing Developer application for David Sugar
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DavidSugar/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DavidSugar/DeveloperApplication
<persia> I believe this application to be pointless, as dyfet is already (recently) an Ubuntu Member, so we'd not be doing anything by LP group manipulation.
<dyfet> If you think that is correct process, I can understand the reasoning
<cjwatson> that seems reasonable; of course dyfet's application for this predates his membership
<geser> dyfet: it would only give you an additional badge on your LP page as your already an Ubuntu member
<cjwatson> yes, the purpose of universe-contributors is "membership by the development path"
<cjwatson> it doesn't AIUI confer privileges beyond that
<persia> dyfet: Do you care whether you have the extra badge on your LP page?
<dyfet> Long term my goal is MOTU, so it was suggested to go this route first
<geser> UUC is not required for MOTU but a option to get Ubuntu membership on ones way towards MOTU
<stgraber> it's because it's usually harder to get membership from a RMB as they tend to mostly grant membership to non-developers (not always true though) and then suggest to go to the DMB for membershipin that case. The result is still the same and won't affect your future MOTU application.
<dyfet> Then perhaps it makes sense to table this and prepare the MOTU application when appropriate?
<persia> dyfet: Your choice.  We can do it (easily), or skip it.  Just tell us which, and then we'll move on to the next agenda item.
 * persia is sure no vote is required, as it's no permissions gained (nor shall be any in the future, from this choice).
<dyfet> Well. I do not want to hold up this meeting.  If there is time remaining at the end, lets revisit, so that others have time to do things :)
<persia> Right, moving on.
<persia> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Lorenzo De Liso
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Lorenzo De Liso
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LorenzoDeLiso/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LorenzoDeLiso/MOTUApplication
<BlackZ> \o
<cjwatson> (I guess people are reading)
<persia> BlackZ: You've not indicated there'S anything you like least, which I have trouble believing.  Would you be able to answer the question if phrased as "What do you think is the most important thing to improve in Ubuntu?"
<BlackZ> persia: I think we should tell the ubuntu contributors to contribute to debian too
<BlackZ> it's very important, as debian is our upstream
<BlackZ> I mean, getting the packages there instead of ubuntu only
<tumbleweed> BlackZ is making tumbleweed happy :P
<BlackZ> and other things, e.g. forwarding patches when we do merges
<persia> BlackZ: Do you have any suggestions on how we could encourage or reward this behaviour?  It's a common goal, but many (especially newer) folks seem to want to avoid "doing the work twice", having yet to experience merges, etc.
<BlackZ> persia: first we should encourage new ubuntu contributors to read debian procedures for get their work there
<BlackZ> because if you're contributing to debian, you're contributing to ubuntu too (see the packages, for example)
<BlackZ> what this, I don't want to say we should encourage to contribute *just* to debian
<BlackZ> but I think new contributors should understand that debian is important for us
<lfaraone> BlackZ: +1
<persia> Any other questions for BlackZ?
<geser> BlackZ: what did you do/plan to do about the concerns mentioned by tumbleweed?
<BlackZ> geser: referring to Stefano and Charlie Smotherman's comments' they're right and now I'm forwarding relevant changes/patches to debian, and upstream if needed, for example, please see bug #604976 and #605210. I promise I will triple-check my future debdiffs before uploading them
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 604976 in tvtime (Debian) "Please merge tvtime 1.0.2-6 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/604976
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605210 in ntfs-config (Ubuntu) "Please merge ntfs-config 1.0.1-6 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605210
<tumbleweed> (although we all make mistakes - re checking)
<BlackZ> and I will do that as MOTU too, obviously
<geser> persia: no more questions, you can proceed
<cjwatson> persia had a hard-freeze on his laptop; he's working on it
<cjwatson> we need him for a completed vote anyway, so I guess we have to wait
<persia> [VOTE] Confirm Lorenzo De Liso (BlackZ) as MOTU
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Lorenzo De Liso (BlackZ) as MOTU.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<persia> BlackZ: Congratulations!
<BlackZ> thanks all
<persia> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Elliot Murphy
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Elliot Murphy
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ElliotMurphy/3rdDeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ElliotMurphy/3rdDeveloperApplication
<statik> hello
<persia> statik: Welcome back
<statik> after seeing the NetworkManager packageset creation, I think I should defer the PPU application portion and come back with a proposal for an Ubuntu One packageset. I would like to be considered for MOTU at this time
<statik> thanks persia
<persia> statik: OK.  We'll only consider the MOTU portion of things today.
<statik> cool
<nigelb> g33
<geser> does someone remember the reason why the last MOTU application got declined?
<cjwatson> it was just "come back with a bit more breadth", wasn't it?
<persia> MY memory is that we didn't confirm due to lack of breadth at that time.
<geser> ok
<statik> it was a split vote, with a suggestion that i return after getting experience
<persia> statik: james_w's testimonial suggests you would improve with a bit more experience.  Do you feel that this experience is better gained before becoming MOTU, or whilst MOTU?  If the latter, how would you expect to handle cases where you're uncertain?
 * cjwatson idly wonders who couldn't improve with experience ...
 * persia suspects nobody
<statik> persia: that testimonial is from my prior application, so i've learned a fair amount since then. I am very comfortable stopping and asking for help when i encounter something new or am uncertain about the implications of an upload
<statik> the best way to improve judgement is to gain experience in a safe environment, and I feel comfortable asking for MOTU rights now even though for some parts of universe I would seek review/advice from other developers before breaking things
<persia> Anyone else have more questions?
<cjwatson> nope
<stgraber> nope
<geser> nope
<persia> [VOTE] Confirm Elliot Murphy (statik) as MOTU
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Elliot Murphy (statik) as MOTU.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<persia> statik: Congratulations, and thanks for your persistence and patience.
<persia> [TOPIC] Sugar Package Set definition
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sugar Package Set definition
<persia> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-July/000088.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-July/000088.html
<statik> thanks everyone
<lfaraone> Basically, the rationale for the package set is explained in that post.
<lfaraone> There is already a team of people interested in packaging Sugar for Ubuntu, ~sugarteam. Right now, I'm the only one in the team who is a MOTU, and at this time we don't have anyone else I'd recommend for adding to the set at this time, but I'm working on mentoring the other team members until we're ready to have more people uploading without sponsorship to SUgar.
<cjwatson> this is simultaneously requesting access to that set for ubuntu-sugar-uploaders, right?
<cjwatson> that team would need to become administered only by the DMB, I believe
<cjwatson> (full delegation is generally a later step)
<persia> lfaraone: How many of the 57 folks in ~sugarteam would you expect to be interested in uploading directly to this package set?
<lfaraone> cjwatson: yes, I was going to transfer it to the DMB after a decision on the set's status, I can do it now if you'd prefer.
<cjwatson> no, later is fine
<cjwatson> I mean post-approval anyway
<lfaraone> persia: 10, based on a quick review of the membership.
<persia> That's certainly enough I'd not want to be processing them all as (potentially overlapping) PPU applicants :)
<cjwatson> so I understand the package list to be: libmoosex-has-sugar-perl python-sugar-0.88 python-sugar-toolkit-0.88 sugar-artwork-0.88 sugar-calculate-activity sugar-chat-activity-0.86 sugar-connect-activity sugar-emulator-0.88 sugar-flipsticks-activity sugar-jigsawpuzzle-activity sugar-logviewer-activity sugar-memorize-activity sugar-pippy-activity sugar-pollbuilder-activity sugar-presence-service-0.88 sugar-read-activity ...
<persia> Anyone have questions about the set of included packages or rationale for a packageset?
<cjwatson> ... sugar-read-activity-0.86 sugar-session-0.88 sugar-sliderpuzzle-activity sugar-terminal-activity sugar-tools-0.88 sugar-turtleart-activity
<cjwatson> which all seem reasonably leaf
<cjwatson> (grep-aptavail -nsPackage -P sugar- -o -FMaintainer debian-olpc-devel)
<lfaraone> cjwatson: not libmoosex-has-sugar-perl, that's just similarly named.
<persia> There's an attachment at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/attachments/20100718/60cf2194/attachment.txt with a list, which includes a few more
<cjwatson> oh right, insufficient regex
<cjwatson> and improving the Maintainer yields a few more
<cjwatson> grep-aptavail -nsPackage -Pr ^sugar- -o -FMaintainer,Original-Maintainer debian-olpc-devel
<lfaraone> cjwatson: I'm also including etoys (which is primarily used as a sugar activity, but is also available standalone) and squeak-vm (VM for etoys, and etoys is it's primary user)
<cjwatson> whence matchbox-window-manager?
<lfaraone> cjwatson: matchbox is included because it was the default window manager for Sugar. As of 0.86 (IIRC) we're using metacity, so this isn't critical.
<cjwatson> I'm not too concerned since it doesn't look like anything else is using it; just checking rationale
<cjwatson> no more questions
<cjwatson> (and running out of time, I have a feeling they're going to throw us out of here soon)
<persia> geser: stgraber ?
<geser> no questions
<stgraber> looks good, no question
<persia> [VOTE] A Sugar packageset to be defined containing the packages listed at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/attachments/20100718/60cf2194/attachment.txt
<MootBot> Please vote on:  A Sugar packageset to be defined containing the packages listed at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/attachments/20100718/60cf2194/attachment.txt.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<nixternal> :)
<stgraber> hey nixternal
<nixternal> hola
<persia> [ACTION] lfarone to transfer ownership of ~ubuntu-sugar-uploaders to the DMB
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lfarone to transfer ownership of ~ubuntu-sugar-uploaders to the DMB
<lfaraone> Cool. I think python-sugar-0.88 python-sugar-toolkit-0.88  were omitted from that list, but I take it that the approval covers everything maintained by debian-olpc, in that list, or matching sugar-*?
<lfaraone> *and/or
<cjwatson> that's what I intended, per your mail
<cjwatson> anyway, approval is by source package
<cjwatson> and those are Source: sugar-base-0.88 and sugar-toolkit-0.88 respectively
<cjwatson> so they're covered
<lfaraone> Great. Ownership transfered.
<cjwatson> persia's laptop has fallen over again
<cjwatson> I suggest that we defer ubuntu-server-dev 'til next week, since this meeting is running very late and that application was only very recent anyway,iirc
<geser> yes, I added it today
<cjwatson> one more thing, nigelb asked that the chair remember to CC news-team (as well as all the others) on new-developer announcements in future; apparently the news-team folks are reluctant to follow other lists
<stgraber> agreed. My bus is also about to arrive to its destination so I'm not going to be around for much longer.
<geser> cjwatson: do we need to vote/discuss anything about the ubuntu-server-dev team? the mails reads to me that only the team ownership needs to be taken over by the DMB right now
<cjwatson> I think the mail was really requesting that it be given access to the ubuntu-server package set
<cjwatson> first para
<nigelb> cjwatson: its not a question of reluctance.  Mostly manpower issues.  We have a rotating staff based on who has time.
<cjwatson> nigelb: reluctance can arise from various other reasons. :-)
<persia> [ACTION]  cjwatson to create sugar packageset and associated development group in launchpad.
<MootBot> ACTION received:   cjwatson to create sugar packageset and associated development group in launchpad.
<cjwatson> nigelb: surprised you don't already follow ubuntu-devel-announce, mind
<cjwatson> (you plural)
<persia> #endmeeting
<akgraner> cjwatson, I follow that list
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:45.
<persia> Sorry :)
<cjwatson> all new developer announcements go to ubuntu-devel-announce, I believe
<cjwatson> as well as others
<stgraber> just wondering, can team administrators add new members on LP ? IIRC they can but can't add other administrators
<persia> stgraber: I think that's right: I think only owners can add admins
<stgraber> ok, so should we change lfaraone to only be a member of sugar contributors ? as it'll be the DMB approving new members for now ?
<akgraner> cjwatson, I'll go back through and look  - but I know we are missing reporting on some new members and I am keen to make sure if at all possible we have a back up to ensure we don't overlook highlighting those folks that's all :-)
<nigelb> cjwatson: you want to take the discussion to the list?
<cjwatson> nigelb: I don't really care that much
<cjwatson> just offering token resistance to CCing yet another list :-
<cjwatson> :-)
<cjwatson> stgraber: yes
<cjwatson> right, got to go
<nigelb> ah. suggested course of action in that case?
 * persia suspects "got to go" was a hard deadline in this case.
<stgraber> updated lfaraone membership in sugar uploaders
<persia> Probably best to make a request to the developer-membership-board@l.u.c ML, detaiing formats, frequency, etc.  We'll argue about it and end up with some considered response and recommendation.
<stgraber> ok, got to go too
<lfaraone>  /part
<legreffier> hello!
<YoBoY> hi legreffier :)
<huats> hi legreffier
<czajkowski> and so the invasion begins
<YoBoY> it's not an invasion yet
<mhall119> oh no, are the French on an empire kick again?
<czajkowski> mhall119: they're up for reapproval
<czajkowski> and I've warned them no bringing 5K people in here
 * legreffier summons piqure and ubotu-fr 
<czajkowski> we'll never get any work done
<YoBoY> i haven't called the entire french community, only some active members
<YoBoY> they helped me to write the approval page
<popey> evening
<YoBoY> hi popey
<czajkowski> aloha folks
<glogiotatidis> hello everyone
<YoBoY> hi glogiotatidis
<piti> hi there
<YoBoY> hi piti
<Seveas> heya
<SWAT> evenink
<alkisg> Hi people
<nhandler> o/
<huats> hello everyone
<AlanBell> o/
<h3adl3ss> hi all
<Seveas> had to run for 15 minutes to catch the train I am in now so I could sit down and brung up the 3G connection :)
<itnet7> Hey there!
<popey> Seveas: dedication
<Seveas> popey, no, dinner
<SWAT> Seveas: free exercise, stop complaining
<Seveas> work dinner, political issue :()
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is czajkowski.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<czajkowski> Aloha folks
<Seveas> hi czajkowski
<popey> hey hey
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<popey> what a packed schedule!
<czajkowski> Tonights agenda  will be in  running order of what is on the agenda linked above
<popey> we need to keep it nice and tight tonight!
<czajkowski> indeed
<huats> so let's start !
<czajkowski> itnet7: huats popey leogg all ready
<huats> sure
<itnet7> yes'm
<czajkowski> [topic] Romanian Re Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Romanian Re Approval
<YoBoY> miss paultag
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RomanianTeam/ApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RomanianTeam/ApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> anyone here for the Romanian LoCo ?
<popey> anyone here from Romania!?
<marianvasile> yes, we are
<marianvasile> unfortunatelly, our leader, AdiRoiban, seems to be catch elswere
<czajkowski> marianvasile: anyone else where with you ?
<paultag|remote> sorry im latte
<marianvasile> I saw DoruHush to be present as well
<czajkowski> marianvasile: are you able to answer question on the re approval ?
<huats> I have to say that adi wasn't sure he could attend onight, and they agreed to be here tonight
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> [action] LoCo council to take Romanian Application to email
<MootBot> ACTION received:  LoCo council to take Romanian Application to email
<czajkowski> [topic] LithuanianTeam Re approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  LithuanianTeam Re approval
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LithuanianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<sirex`> Lithuanina team leader is here.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LithuanianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> sirex`: hey there! welcome
<sirex`> Hi.
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LithuanianTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LithuanianTeam
<czajkowski> sirex`: so care to tell us about your team
<sirex`> Well in these two years we where active.
<sirex`> Some key details I wrote to re-approval application.
<czajkowski> I notice you've not had any meetings in 2010, why is this?
<czajkowski> you had up till now
<sirex`> Lithuaniant LoCo is growing and we plant to grow more in future.
<czajkowski> sirex`: and how do you plan on doing that ?
<czajkowski> sirex`: are there more here tonight from your team ?
<sirex`> czajkowski: we have some IRC meetings, but after our previous team leader left us, our loco changed his behaviour.
<czajkowski> ah ok, what happened?
<huats> what are the differences in the behaviour?
<sirex`> We had IRC meetings each month, but it was changed by just activity in forums.
<huats> sirex`,  so now you have meetings in forums ?
<huats> do you have url of that ?
<sirex`> Also we joint AKL (association Open Source for Lithuania).
<czajkowski> sirex`: do you organise release parties?
<sirex`> huats: now meetings ar irregual, befor ubuntu releases or other events that we organizing.
<leogg> sirex`: do you have any minutes of the meetings?
<sirex`> leogg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LithuanianTeam/Susitikimai/Sekantis
<huats> sirex`, I mean your are saying that your IRC meetings are replaced by forum activity, do you track this activity in a dedicated part of the forum ?
<sirex`> czajkowski: yes, we do.
<leogg> sirex`: thank you!
<sirex`> huats: now, thes activities ar untracked and irregular.
<huats> ok
<sirex`> czajkowski: photos from release parties: http://www.facebook.com/ubuntu.lt?v=photos
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the Lithuania LoCo.  Only Council members vote please.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the Lithuania LoCo.  Only Council members vote please..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<paultag|remote> sirex` how does your team take advantage of official loco resource?
<czajkowski> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<sirex`> paultag|remote: it helped to get official approved one of lithuanian ubuntu mirrors.
<czajkowski> itnet7: huats popey paultag|remote leogg
<MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 0 for, 2 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<popey> -1 from me, because I'd like to see more activity
<MootBot> -1 received from popey. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<leogg> I think your team has made a great job so far, but we need to see more recent activity
<MootBot> Private abstention received. 0 for, 3 against. 1 abstained. Count is now -3
<leogg> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from leogg. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
<MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 0 for, 5 against, 1 have abstained. Count is now -5
<huats> -1 I'd like to see something more structured too
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 5 against. 1 abstained. Total: -5
<czajkowski> sirex`: I'm sorry at present we don't feel there is enough activity, perhaps after this meeting we can talk about how we cna help you
<sirex`> Ok.
<czajkowski> [action] LocO council to follow up with sirex` and help with some pointers.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  LocO council to follow up with sirex` and help with some pointers.
<czajkowski> [topic] Massachusetts Team Re approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Massachusetts Team Re approval
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam
<paultag|remote> no doctormo?
<czajkowski> hmm no team contact listed
<paultag|remote> cz- its doc-mo
<czajkowski> no lp info, mailing list, etc lised
<czajkowski> paultag|remote: aye I know but still the applicaton is a bit bare
<huats> I agree, the application don't looks good at all for me
<czajkowski> anyone else here from the  Ma LoCo ?
<leogg> no relevant links on the application?
<czajkowski> 3 links on the Ma appliction
<paultag|remote> im in the loco
<paultag|remote> i dont think info was passed on
<czajkowski> well that's not a great sign now
<paultag|remote> can we delay one meeting?
<czajkowski> paultag|remote: itnet7 leogg huats popey shall we take this to the mailing list aslo ?
<czajkowski> *also
<paultag|remote> +1
<popey> yes
<huats> +1 to me
<itnet7> Yes
<leogg> +1
<popey> I'm sure they do great work
<popey> its just documenting it :)
<czajkowski> [action] Massachusetts Team to be done via email
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Massachusetts Team to be done via email
<huats> but I really think that we need to stress that is not  a really good behviour
<czajkowski> [topic] Italy Loco re Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Italy Loco re Approval
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam
<czajkowski> ok please tell me there is a team contact for this loco present
<Gwaihir> yep
<Gwaihir> it's me
<huats> great Gwaihir
<Gwaihir> actually, I'm not really the team contact
<paultag|remote> better then MA already :)
<czajkowski> it is saying mathew east, hence my confusion
<itnet7> Hey there Milo!
<Gwaihir> yes, mdke is, but he is kind of away since a while...
<Gwaihir> we heard him last week, but then disappeared...
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: was thrown with your nick :)
<czajkowski> ok moving on so
<Gwaihir> he's very busy with work
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: care to tell us about your loco please
<Gwaihir> yep
<czajkowski> Thank you
<Gwaihir> structure is similar to the international one
<Gwaihir> we have an Italian Loco Council
<Gwaihir> that used to be made of members of all the various team
<Gwaihir> (translation, developers, docs, forum and IRC)
<czajkowski> nice application for a starters :)
<Gwaihir> we are kind of active in Italy, even if not that much due to the distance between all the active members
<Gwaihir> we are scattered all other Italy, and that's not easy even to meet us in person twice a year
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: how do you share roles out within your team ?
<Gwaihir> the team is growing, we have new members coming in and joining the various working team
<Gwaihir> czajkowski, what to you mean with that?
<huats> Gwaihir, do you have an idea of the current growth ?
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: how do you share out tasks, things that need to be done with people ?
<Gwaihir> huats, no real data: we have almost two ubuntu-it members every month for example
<czajkowski> wow
<czajkowski> impressive
<huats> terrific
<Gwaihir> (ubuntu-it membership is like the ubuntu membership, only for italian people)
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: can you tell us about that
<czajkowski> what makes you qualify for it ?
<Gwaihir> yeah, but people sometime disappear... :(
<Gwaihir> czajkowski, you need to have done substantial "work" within the Italian community
<Gwaihir> be it: IRC support, forum support, translations, packagin... whatever
<Gwaihir> we ask people to track their work on a wiki page we can read
<popey> I'm impressed with the ISO testing work the IT team has done
<Gwaihir> and ask to find some people that can vouch form them when they apply
<popey> http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoTest is impressive stuff
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoTest is impressive stuff
<itnet7> ditto!
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the Italian LoCo. Only council members vote please
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the Italian LoCo. Only council members vote please.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<itnet7> And everyone I have met on their team have great attitudes toward collaboration,etc.
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<huats> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from huats. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<leogg> +1
<czajkowski> easy great application and excellent activity
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<popey> You're doing great work and documenting it well and keeping people motivated
<popey> great stuff!
<huats> good work my friend Gwaihir
<Gwaihir> thanks all! :-)
<czajkowski> paultag|remote: VOTE
<paultag|remote> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag|remote. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<popey> woot
<paultag|remote> sorrrry!!!
<popey> great work, keep it up!
<leogg> really nice work Gwaihir !
<czajkowski> Whoo congrats
<Gwaihir> thank you!
<paultag|remote> grats gw!
<huats> congrats
<itnet7> Congrats to your entire team!!! Give Paulo *hugs* :-)
<czajkowski> [topic] French Team Re Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  French Team Re Approval
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam/ApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam/ApprovalApplication
 * popey mutes huats 
<YoBoY> lol
<itnet7> lol
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam
<kinouchou> :)$
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam
<huats> :)
<YoBoY> French team is here :D
<czajkowski> Ayone here for the french team...
<huats> Me too I am here
<leogg> nice application!
<kinouchou> yes, czajkowski we are here
<czajkowski> WOW nice appliction
<paultag|remote> heck yeah leo :)
<czajkowski> kinouchou: hey!!!
<itnet7> Very nice application YoBoY !
<czajkowski> doc is bloody active in -community-team
<YoBoY> itnet7: thanks i try to put a lot of images :p
<doctormo> did I miss something?
<huats> YoBoY, you go on the french presentation ?
<czajkowski> YoBoY: so care to tell us about your team
<czajkowski> and how you are so organised
<YoBoY> yes
 * tshirtman here too
<YoBoY> Hi
<YoBoY> The French LocoTeam is a big team with lot of different activities.
<YoBoY> We have a website, a french (like in french speaking) documentation, a forum, and a planet. Theses sites are all maintened b the french community with members all around the world.
<YoBoY> We have also a lot of irl activities, you know our parties are great with 5k people when Mark came to see us. We also make French Live CDs, with 9000 CDs produced for the 10.04LTS version and shipped all around the world.
<YoBoY> We help the Frenchs Ubuntu user groups in France with goodies and promotion. We go every where when we are invited. The last event was a musical event last week for example.
<YoBoY> ... and much more :p
<paultag|remote> doctormo: day late, dollar short
<YoBoY> the organisation is made with the help of mailing lists, and irc channels
<kinouchou> hello all
<tshirtman> (procuded CDS are almost already all sold/distributed)
 * zed is here too (with a bit of lag)
 * poupoul2 too ;)
<YoBoY> i have listed all the lists and channels on the approval page, you can also see the activity
 * kanor is here
 * SpiNeAkeR too
<YoBoY> (my team need coffe ^^")
<popey> I am honestly blown away
<leogg> YoBoY: this is really impressive!
<czajkowski> YoBoY: so your team has done very well, how do you think you'll be able to keep this up for the future
<czajkowski> Do you encounter obsticles?
<YoBoY> well... yes, we have difficulties some times
<czajkowski> oh do share
<paultag|remote> besides finding venues ;)
<YoBoY> but we always come to a solution
<leogg> YoBoY: how do you get funds for your activities?
<YoBoY> for example the last one was our host ubuntu-eu ...
<YoBoY> we had to migrate all the forum to personnal servers
<YoBoY> and we have some bugs yet with this migration ^^"
<YoBoY> leogg: with the sell of goodies and donations
<YoBoY> yes finding bug venues is difficult :p
<czajkowski> ok I think we;re ready to vote
<leogg> YoBoY: nice!
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the French LoCo. Only Council members vote.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the French LoCo. Only Council members vote..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<popey> easy!
<leogg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<popey> keep doing fantastic work!
<YoBoY> :D
<kinouchou> :)
<itnet7> paultag|remote: ?
<YoBoY> we try our best
<leogg> really, really impressive!
<doctormo> YoBoY: Yes, keep making us all jealous ;-)
<YoBoY> lol
<YoBoY> sorry :p
<tshirtman> it's hard to manage such a big community ^^
 * YoBoY hugs doctormo 
<huats> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from huats. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<huats> I can't vote :)
<czajkowski> and paultag|remote did +1
<czajkowski> +1
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<doctormo> +1
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<czajkowski> congrats France
<doctormo> Odd voting thing
<YoBoY> thanks :)
<kinouchou> thanks
<czajkowski> [action] huats to update the LP with teams Approval/Re approval and non approval date
<MootBot> ACTION received:  huats to update the LP with teams Approval/Re approval and non approval date
<czajkowski> huats: I need to give you some work :p
<huats> czajkowski, sure :)
<huats> I will
<popey> yeah, like he hasnt done enough! :)
<huats> thanks
<czajkowski> [topic] Greek Team Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Greek Team Approval
<glogiotatidis> hello everyone
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreekTeam/ApprovalApplication2010
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreekTeam/ApprovalApplication2010
<huats> I have no choice since you do that after that vote czajkowski :)
<itnet7> Hey there glogiotatidis !
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreekTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreekTeam
<czajkowski> huats: thanks :)
<czajkowski> glogiotatidis: hey welcome
<czajkowski> glogiotatidis: nice appliction
<glogiotatidis> thank you ;)
<czajkowski> glogiotatidis: care to tel us about your team
<glogiotatidis> of course
<glogiotatidis> This is our second approval, we have been an official team for many years. We have very active foums and mailing lists (counting more than 5500 members in total).
<glogiotatidis> This year we achieved a full translation of the ubuntu manual and we are very proud of it. Many team members cooperated to achive that. We also translated the ubuntu brochure.
<glogiotatidis> Another important activity of the community is Ubuntistas, our magazine, inspired by Full Circle. It is (almost) bi-monthly -we have 8 issues in the last 2 years- with original content written by the team members.
<glogiotatidis> We also participate in the annual FOSSCOMM, a FLOSS conference held by the greek communities with a booth and talks.
<glogiotatidis> Besides these we hold parties on every release, we maintain a website, a wiki page, we ship cds all around Greece and we have mebers activelly promoting ubuntu and floss in digital and real life.
<czajkowski> glogiotatidis: impressive, can you tell me a bit more about your magazine the artwork looks great
<huats> czajkowski, +1
<glogiotatidis> the artwork is created by the team members
<glogiotatidis> the whole magazine is organized in our forums
<glogiotatidis> people are responsible for the editorial, the artwork, the content
<czajkowski> glogiotatidis: you should tell UWN (ubuntu weekly newsletter) about this
<glogiotatidis> czajkowski, we will, thnx ;)
<huats> can you say more about the brochure ? I am sure it would be great to translate it
<czajkowski> glogiotatidis: are there many more of your team here, I do appreciate not everyone speaks English
 * BlackFate here
<simosx> hi from the greek team :-)
 * alkisg raises hand
<h3adl3ss> here too,hi all
<c7p> hi all
<czajkowski> ah good stuff welcome
<BlackFate> and kostkon
<popey> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dpm/ubuntu-10.04-translation-stats.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~dpm/ubuntu-10.04-translation-stats.html
<BlackFate> he is shy
<popey> Greek in the top 20 translations!
<huats> glogiotatidis, about the brochure ?
<czajkowski> wow
<glogiotatidis> Yes pretty active translation team
<popey> great work
<c7p> well the brochure started as a translation of a brochure from spreadubuntu and then we worked more on it
<glogiotatidis> huats, you can find the brochure here http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/el/material/brochure/%CF%86%CF%85%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%AC%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%BF-%CF%80%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%8E%CE%B8%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B7%CF%82-%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85-ubuntu
<simosx> we did the remaining ubuntu-specific packages last April.
<popey> gorgeous url ;)
<maco> wow....mod_rewrite?
<Seveas> no, just greek characters
<huats> gilir, you should try to have an english version
<Seveas> the http rfc is too ascii-centric :)
<huats> si that other team can translate it
<glogiotatidis> popey, erm sorry for that, greek characters in there ;)
<alkisg> Having greek characters on the url is good for SEO :)
<popey> :D no need to apologise :)
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the Greek Team Re Approval. Only council members vote
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the Greek Team Re Approval. Only council members vote.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<huats> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from huats. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<czajkowski> +1
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<paultag|remote> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paultag|remote. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<leogg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<paultag|remote> i was afk :)
<huats> Please continue that way, and share your work with other teams in planet/identi.ca/uwn ....
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<czajkowski> Congrats to the Greek Team !
<czajkowski> well done
<huats> congrats !
<popey> congratulations, fantastic work Team Greece!
<itnet7> Very good job glogiotatidis, congrats to you and your team!
<simosx> Thanks!
<glogiotatidis> Thank you everyone ;)
<kinouchou> congrats
<czajkowski> Thank you and please do tell the UWN about your great magazine!!
<huats> Please continue that way, and share your work with other teams in planet/identi.ca/uwn ....
<czajkowski> [topic] Egypt Team Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Egypt Team Approval
<glogiotatidis> czajkowski, ok next uwn gets this ;)
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/ApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/ApprovalApplication
<thelinuxer> here
<Sensiva> here
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam
<czajkowski> nice detailed applicton
<czajkowski> makes our job a lot easier :)
<Sensiva> :D
<thelinuxer> u should thank Sensiva for this :)
<czajkowski> Sensiva: very nice
<Sensiva> I was practicing wiki markup, that's all
<Sensiva> :p
<Sensiva> ty thelinuxer czajkowski
<czajkowski> ok so can you tell us about your team, and how you are organised
<czajkowski> Do you do monthly reports?
<thelinuxer> ok
<thelinuxer> our team started 3 years ago with no much activity
<thelinuxer> in the last few month we revived the team and started by organizing meeting in coffee shops ..etc
<thelinuxer> we then tried to organize events but had problems finding venues
<thelinuxer> lately we are trying to collaborate with other technology groups to help us find venues and to assist them in their events
<thelinuxer> the structure is simple, everyone owns his ideas
<thelinuxer> and he has to follow up on people to make sure that the work is done
<thelinuxer> also we created the website and we will have different roles like moderator, translators ..etc
<thelinuxer> does this answer ur question ?
<huats> I am quite surprised : you mention a youtube channel : when I look at it the various videos has been put last week... The blog you mention contains no post...
<huats> can you explain this ?
<thelinuxer> yes i can
<thelinuxer> it's still under development, small bugs here and there
<thelinuxer> also i am waiting for the approval to user the ubuntu-eg.org domain
<thelinuxer> the current url is only temp
<huats> ok
<czajkowski> can you tell us if you've had any problems in the past and how you've overcome them ?
<thelinuxer> yes we had a couple of problems
<Sensiva> video upload was delayed because I didn't have a good upstream to upload until last week
<czajkowski> thelinuxer: such as ?
<thelinuxer> we had HardDisk who tried to take credit for the whole team work, he wanted to become an ubuntu member without doing anything
<thelinuxer> he was banned from the team for that
<thelinuxer> cause we don't tolerate such actions
<paultag|cell> ah yes i recall that
<czajkowski> how long for ?
<Sensiva> he choosed to leave, and he handed over various accounts after leaving the team
<thelinuxer> czajkowski: sorry didn't understand the question
<Sensiva> wordpress, and ubuntueg at youtube
<czajkowski> is he baned for good, or for a short time?
<Sensiva> it was supposed to be for short time, but HardDisk choosed to leave the team
<thelinuxer> well as Sensiva said we gave him a chance to answer people's questions on the mailing list and defend himself
<leogg> thelinuxer: In your application you have a lot of nice ideas, but I'd like to see more action
<thelinuxer> leogg: some of the stuff mentioned in the roadmap is already being done
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the Approval of the Egypt LoCo.  Only Council members vote
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the Approval of the Egypt LoCo.  Only Council members vote.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<paultag|cell> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag|cell. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<thelinuxer> like P4Y and Ain shams events
<czajkowski> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<czajkowski> leogg: itnet7 huats popey
<huats> +0 for me I'd like to see you back here in a few times
<MootBot> Abstention received from huats. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<leogg> +0 from me, I'd would like to see more
<MootBot> Abstention received from leogg. 1 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 1
<huats> to see your progress
<popey> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 1
<itnet7> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from itnet7. 1 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 1
<popey> I agree, I'd like to see some months of activity then get you back to talk about it
<huats> I am sure you are doing good,but I'd like to see that !
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 0 against. 5 abstained. Total: 1
<thelinuxer> ok gr8 no problem :)
<czajkowski> [action] council to follow up with the Egypt Team and give them some help
<MootBot> ACTION received:  council to follow up with the Egypt Team and give them some help
<thelinuxer> we are here to get guidance
<Sensiva> Would you please define "How much more" ?
<paultag|cell> :)
<czajkowski> thelinuxer: Sensiva this is not a reflection on you, we'd just like to see some more work
<itnet7> I do think that all of you have done a wonderful job despite your setbacks
<czajkowski> we'll help you and give you some pointers via email ok
<Sensiva> czajkowski we totally understand , it was expected :D
<paultag|cell> some help would  be good  but good job so far
<czajkowski> Sensiva: thanks
<leogg> I agree, you're all doing a great work
<thelinuxer> ok gr8, thanx everyone :)
<czajkowski> [topic] Dutch Team Re Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Dutch Team Re Approval
<huats> let's say that wit that vote we are sure to try to help you doing great stuffs
<Seveas> hello
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DutchTeamApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DutchTeamApprovalApplication
<huats> hi Seveas
<SWAT> hi there
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DutchTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DutchTeam
<Seveas> Coming live from a concrete block outside a police station
<Seveas> Good evening! Myself (Dennis Kaarsemaker) and SWAT (Sebastian Schauenburg) are here representing the dutch locoteam. We are one of the oldest LoCoTeams in the book and have been active since 2004. We have organized release parties for every release since 5.04 and presentations since about the same time. At the moment the LoCo revolves mostly around our forum, but we are planning more international
<Seveas>  activity. We have our website (www.ubuntu-nl.org), wiki (wiki.ubuntu-nl.org), irc channel (#ubuntu-nl) and mailinglist (ubuntu-nl at lists.ubuntu.com) where we support users and we also have a map of local supportpoints (kaart.ubuntu-nl.org) for even more direct support. Highlights of our team are the 8.04 and 10.04 releaseparties that attracted hundreds of people and were packed with user suppor
<Seveas> t, presentations and good conversations and that we secured sponsorship from a large ISP and a large hotels website for hosting and hardware. We are currently working on a roadmap to improve ourselves, while decreasing overhead time-investments and increasing motivation. We also have monthly (open and logged) IRC meetings where anybody can put items on the agenda: http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/communi
<Seveas> ty/Meetings
<czajkowski> wow thanks Seveas :)
<czajkowski> how goes the frysian team - Ubuntu-fy ?
<Seveas> it's busy starting, Dooitze is creating pages on ubuntu-fy.org and the forum is seeing some activity
<SWAT> slow but steady
<Seveas> we're supporting them by hosting their environment
<czajkowski> right.
<czajkowski> Presentations and talks - Between 2004 and 2010, community members of Ubuntu NL have given talks about ubuntu on quite a few occasions. Audiences range from small to large companies, to local LUGs (HCC groups), schools and even hospital staff. Sadly most of these talks have not been recorded or photographed.
<czajkowski> you mention above but there are no links to any presentations?
<Seveas> I'm afraid not. I was fairly late with preparing our wikipage and couldn't find any links
<popey> approval page is a bit lean..
<huats> Have you any figures on the numbers of people involved in the LoCo ?
<Seveas> a few dozen
<huats> and the evolution of that number ?
<huats> (over the time I mean)
<czajkowski> As a mostly forum-based community, we do not track membership via launchpad and thus it is unclear how many members we have and who we count as members. As an indication, the forum has 20000+ registered accounts
<Seveas> we are going through a bit of a rough period where some people on the forum seem hell-bent on killing the atmosphere, but there always have been active people, growing slowly
<czajkowski> Does that mean your focus is mostly forums and not real life events? or online meetings/reports taking part in the ubuntu community
<Seveas> recently the artwork team was created, adding half a dozen people
<Seveas> the focus is mostly on forums and releaseparties
<Seveas> though Sense is becoming more active internationally and the artwork team is trying to do so too
<SWAT> and events (but mostly these are smaller)
<czajkowski> Seveas: do you think your loco is fully aware of the greater Ubuntu communty ?
<Seveas> czajkowski, no, there is definitely room for improvement there
<SWAT> there is a huge language barrier, since everything we do (example right here) is in English and a lot of people are not proficient in it
<czajkowski> I notice sense isn't here and he's rather vocal and very active as a community member. As is Seveas on boards, do you think others in yoru team would benefit from learning more about the community
<czajkowski> how do you propse to do so if you thinkit would be wise ?
<czajkowski> SWAT: true, but many people use a translator, and we are as others are very patient with people who don't speak english as their first language
<Seveas> czajkowski, maybe yes, maybe no. Our activities revolve around local events and dutch support.
<czajkowski> Seveas: I just don't see that on your appliction....
<Seveas> I think sense is doing great work keeping tabs on the international community and I hope the artwork team will follow that example. That's where I see opportunities for integration with the global community.
<leogg> Seveas: Do you have any links to the events? Besides http://www.releaseparty.eu/
<SWAT> we notice that documentation in our native tongue is very important, since about everyone can understand them. So we're trying to keep that up. Even had a meeting a few hours ago about the manual project
<czajkowski> SWAT: thats good
<paultag|remote> what about the council
<Seveas> leogg, releaseparty.eu is refreshed for every release, that's why it only has one release on there
<paultag|remote> i heard the nl council quit on one day all together
<popey> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dpm/ubuntu-10.04-translation-stats.html dutch is looking good there..
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~dpm/ubuntu-10.04-translation-stats.html dutch is looking good there..
<paultag|remote> what was that about?
<jpds> (The nl.archive.u.c guys are awesome).
<czajkowski> jpds: it's all about the archives with you :)
<czajkowski> 22:14 < paultag|remote> i heard the nl council quit on one day all together ??
<czajkowski> can someone answer that ?
<Seveas> paultag|remote, we have in the past had problems with problematic community members, causing much activity to move to closed parts of the forum. This is causing some disconnection between 'the team' and 'the community'. The council was one attempt to solve that, sadly that failed. We have some way to go there, but we have faced similar problems in the past and survived them.
<Seveas> czajkowski, I was typing the answer :)
<czajkowski> Seveas: thanks
<paultag|remote> whats the plan going forward?
<czajkowski> ok any more thoughts from the council or from Seveas SWAT ??
<SWAT> we are trying to find a better way to handle this and they agreed. I talked to a couple of them during one of our events and we have the same mindset
<Seveas> paultag|remote, that's not quite clear yet. This is a fairly recent development.
<paultag|remote> OK, ty
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the re approval of the Dutch LoCo. only Council members vote
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on the re approval of the Dutch LoCo. only Council members vote.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<leogg> I'd like to see the activities better documented
<popey> agreed
<popey> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from popey. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> I'd like to see more real life events or better documentaion of this happening.
<leogg> +0
<itnet7> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from itnet7. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<MootBot> Abstention received from leogg. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<huats> I have been a bit disapointed by the lack of details on your application
<paultag|remote> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paultag|remote. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 0
<huats> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from huats. 0 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 6 abstained. Total: 0
<paultag|remote> im not happy but you show good work
<czajkowski> Ok, at this time we've not been able to decide on your re approval
<czajkowski> would it be possible to ask you to come back again next month or when there is more detail on your application
<Seveas> sure
<SWAT> sure, why not.
<czajkowski> Thank you
<czajkowski> I'd appreciate that
<czajkowski> doctormo: are you free?
<paultag|remote> thank you :)
<doctormo> Yes
<huats> Seveas, SWAT I really think that with a more detailled application everything will be fine
<itnet7> Same with me
<czajkowski> [topic] Massachusetts Team Re approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Massachusetts Team Re approval
<czajkowski> [topic] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
<MootBot> New Topic:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
<paultag|remote> ah yes ma
<paultag|remote> my homeland :)
<Seveas> process question: do we stay approved until a decision has been made?
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam
<doctormo> Hello, I'm the offical contact for US-MA, leftyfb is currently a co-chair and he's in this meeting. *wave*
<paultag|remote> seveas: yes
<huats> Seveas, yes
<doctormo> http://ubuntu-massachusetts.com
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntu-massachusetts.com
<czajkowski> doctormo: well your re approval appliction is rather lacking
<doctormo> czajkowski: I'm not here to ask for reaproval, I'm here to ask not to be.
<huats> doctormo,  ?
<czajkowski> does your team know about this
<czajkowski> is this a team decision
<huats> I think you are doing it the right way :(
<doctormo> We do events, we use the resources we get from Canonical's shipit and it's all good. But the team is complacent, lazy, disorganised and I'm very unhappy with it.
<doctormo> My attempt to step down as leader gracefully was met with massive amounts of resistance.
<huats> doctormo, have you tried to change stuffs ?
<czajkowski> well that's not very fair, at least you wanted to step down
<huats> I mean besides steeping down
<czajkowski> doctormo: can you at least give us some reasons why the team is so disorganised?
<huats> doctormo, does leftyfb is aware ?
<huats> since you mention that
<doctormo> the problem is that there is no one else to fill the spot, the team doesn't have enough members to sustain anything worthwhile. But as the only functioning team in the New England area if we disband then that about wraps it up for Ubuntu.
<czajkowski> doctormo: ok, see we don't know how many members there are,
<popey> is it quite a small team relatively?
<leftyfb> It's a revolving team
<doctormo> I'd estimate about 12 members, 5 who do things.
<huats> doctormo, these kind of figures should be on the application
<leftyfb> lots of members have come and gone over the years
<popey> wow, thats pretty small
<doctormo> The Ubuntu Hours have been good actually, for team morale etc.
<leftyfb> lots of fulltime working people with not much time on their hands
<czajkowski> yup Ubuntu hours are great, there is little pressure on folks
<leftyfb> most of the work has been done doctormo, myself and a few others
 * paultag|remote is in ohio
<popey> would running leaderless be an option?
<leftyfb> This Ubuntu hour has been a new spark as of late
<doctormo> But with no team meetings for going on 5 months, it's hard not to throw in the towel, we don't have the resources for this marlarky.
<czajkowski> *nods*
<czajkowski> I do understand
<leftyfb> I don't agree on completely giving up though
<czajkowski> right but do you need a team leader
<huats> leftyfb, that was my question
<popey> czajkowski: not really
<huats> leftyfb, what is the reaction of the other people involved ?
<czajkowski> could there just be a launchpad team contact
<doctormo> leftyfb: I think we should do the hours, do the events we're going to do anyway. But we can't be a 'team' as just a straggle of people.
<popey> they can run with a point of contact, but have the team semi-autonomous
<czajkowski> and everyone share roles?
<czajkowski> popey: that;s what I was getting at, am a slow typer :)
<paultag|remote> im here to help in person until august
<paultag|remote> end of august
<czajkowski> doctormo: do you think us making the team an unapproved loco will change anything ?
<leftyfb> huats: We don't know what others think since we have been lacking in meetings. IRC meetings have not been very successful. We used to have really good meetings in the past in person but we lost the resources to have those.
<huats> doctormo, leftyfb when you said to the team that there was a reapproval approching, did you had any reaction ?
<czajkowski> ok as a solution there would it help for the loco council to possibly idle in your irc channel, we have done for other teams and help
<leftyfb> The only thing I think being unapproved will change is for us to have even less resources to do the few things we are in fact doing
<huats> leftyfb, apparently you met for the Ubuntu Hours, have you mention that during these events ?
<doctormo> leftyfb: I agree, we'll have no shipit, but don't forget we use our own resources for everything else.
<paultag|remote> i was there huats and it was casually discussed
<leftyfb> huats: I have been to one Ubuntu hour at which time I had to be on the phone the entire time for a support/personal issue
<huats> paultag|remote, and the general feeling ?
<huats> leftyfb, ok
<leftyfb> czajkowski: what do you mean by idle our IRC channel?
<leftyfb> I don't think removing resources at this point is going to help anything
<czajkowski> leftyfb: as in we can join and be there for Q&A and possibly run some sessions on how to get involved
<paultag|remote> huats lack of urgancy but mosty optimistic because of a recent event that was huge
<leftyfb> I don't have an immediate solution as I am partially to blame for lack of time in helping run things
<czajkowski> we've done it for the israel loco
<popey> it happens leftyfb
<doctormo> leftyfb: czajkowski means some folks would stay on in #ubuntu-us-ma to watch and help if needed.
<doctormo> Although paultag has been there for a while now, without much change.
<paultag|remote> true.
<doctormo> If only we didn't have all these bloody universities killing our recruitment.
<huats> paultag|remote, ok
<leftyfb> I think our team is full of a lot of very talented and motivated people, but at the same time, very busy in their everyday lives.
<popey> recruitment drive at unis doctormo ?
<leftyfb> btw: I just added a missing event to our wiki page
<popey> summer things to do for students on recess?
<doctormo> popey: Contacts are hard to find and they frown on advertising without invitation.
<popey> k
<popey> talks at computer societies?
<huats> doctormo, I am very very surprised that you dont get many people in  uiversities indeed
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the Re Aproval of the Massachusetts Team LoCo.  only council members vote please
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on the Re Aproval of the Massachusetts Team LoCo.  only council members vote please.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<paultag|remote> +0 -- im involved with the loco.
<MootBot> Abstention received from paultag|remote. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<huats> we are facing this kind of stuff in my city which have a lot of colleges
<huats> and people are quite involved there
<popey> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from popey. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<czajkowski> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
<huats> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from huats. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
<itnet7> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from itnet7. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
<leogg> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from leogg. 0 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -4
<popey> I'd like to see the loco council run a recruitment drive and bring in skills from other locos to help -us-ma!
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 4 against. 2 abstained. Total: -4
<czajkowski> Sorry Ma LoCo you've been unsuccessful in your re approval
<doctormo> czajkowski: Are you a computer?
<paultag|remote> batt died bbl
<itnet7> doctormo: lol, you kill me
<itnet7> :-)
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> [action] Popey I'd like to see the loco council run a recruitment drive and bring in skills from other locos to help -us-ma!
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Popey I'd like to see the loco council run a recruitment drive and bring in skills from other locos to help -us-ma!
<czajkowski> ok who's turn is it to update wiki with minutes ??
<popey> doctormo: we'll see what we can do to help, and keep in touch in your loco channel and -community-team
 * popey puts his hands under the desk
<doctormo> Thanks popey, sounds like a plan.
<sirex`> czajkowski: is there any chances for Lithuanian LoCo to be Re Approved?
<czajkowski> [action] czajkowski update  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval
<MootBot> ACTION received:  czajkowski update  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval
<czajkowski> itnet7: leogg popey either of ye update the minutes of the meeting ??
<czajkowski> sirex`: in this meeting ?
<popey> czajkowski: wilco
<sirex`> In this meeting our team was not re approved
<czajkowski> [action] popey update the wiki page with minutes and mail loco contacts mailing list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  popey update the wiki page with minutes and mail loco contacts mailing list
<sirex`> I'm asking if such small team in small country has any chances to be approved?
<czajkowski> sirex`: yes, we're going to mail you afertwards  and help you
<huats> sirex`, do you mean to get reapproved tonight ? or at the next meting ?
<czajkowski> it;s not a never it won't happen
<czajkowski> just not now
<sirex`> huats: at the next meeting..
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:40.
<czajkowski> thanks folks
<huats> sirex`, you can clearly get reapproved
<huats> a small country is not an issue
<huats> you just need to show us that you are doing good stuffs
<huats> on regular events
<huats> are well organized
<huats> and have ideas of what you want to do next
<sirex`> huats: yes, but small countries can't do same as big ones, like Frence or Italy.. :)
<huats> sirex`, of course!
<huats> we are really aware of that!
<huats> sirex`, we'll send you an email shortly to let you know more about our decision and our ideas on how to help you
<huats> (well the idea will come later :)
<huats> but in anyway we are not giving you a -1 and leaving you alone
<sirex`> huats: ok, understood..
<huats> it is more an opportunity to help you
<AlanBell> YoBoY: how did you get 5k people to a party?
<tshirtman> AlanBell: communication, big user base (forum with 100 000+ registered members), lot of animations/courses/workshop, main free software associations of the coutry here
<tshirtman> when possible, newspapers to speak (a little, but it's still huge on the effect) about it
<AlanBell> so the forum is more important than mailing list or IRC for you?
<tshirtman> yes
<tshirtman> by a few magnitudes
<AlanBell> we barely use the uk forum, probably because people go to the main english language forums
<tshirtman> oh, yeah that explain
<AlanBell> you have 180 or so people in the irc channel compared to our 127
<tshirtman> (most) french don't speak english
<AlanBell> but we have to put a lot of effort in to get 100 people to an event
<kinouchou> We have a good place for the party
<AlanBell> I think we have 700 or so on the mailing list
<tshirtman> yeah the place for the party is fantastic
<tshirtman> oh, good mailing list
<tshirtman> do you use ubuntuforums to speak about uk events?
<AlanBell> not sure about the main forums
<AlanBell> I think announcements and things get posted in the uk forum
<tshirtman> if most users are there, maybe you should at least relay it there
<tshirtman> on our forums we have a section dedicated to parties, and teams from all the country can announce their event there
<kinouchou> people know fr each release there are a big event in paris
<AlanBell> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=274
<tshirtman> we also have a website dedicated to parties, with only anounce of parties in every french speaking place
<SpiNeAkeR> http://ubuntu-party.org/
<AlanBell> yeah, looks like we didn't post the announcement of the most recent event on the forum even
<tshirtman> AlanBell: ah, there is some activity there, i think this is not your problem
<tshirtman> aw too bad
<AlanBell> I kind of wouldn't expect anyone on the forum to not be on the mailing list
<AlanBell> or see the blog posts and twitter stuff and press coverage we had
<AlanBell> there is some activity, but the last post was 6 days ago
<tshirtman> yeah, but people fall more easily on a forum than on a ML
<AlanBell> possibly
<tshirtman> i discovered a few days ago we where in 6th position for "forum" on google
<tshirtman> so we happen to have more than a few people that get there without knowing anything about linux
<AlanBell> I think a *lot* of UK ubuntu users are in the english language forums and have no clue what a loco is, or that the UK has one
<tshirtman> i think the forum is very popular because, appart from the support sections wich are great help, but there are section like the "cafÃ©" where people can speak about anything, it take a little work on moderation (ok, a lot) but people stay here to discuss even when they have no problems
<tshirtman> -but*
<tshirtman> i don't think most of our user knows the stuff about loco and such, they knows they have a big forum, most of them knows they have an awesome documentation, those who can go to events, a lot are very happy to buy merch, but few knows about irc and other mediums, or care to use them
<tshirtman> the place we use for the party is "la citÃ© des science" it's a very appreciated place with science expositions for childrens and such, it's a very good place we can easily communicate about, it's great help
<AlanBell> interesting
<AlanBell> I don't think in the UK we can do the same kind of thing with the forums because we don't have a different language
<AlanBell> so as a loco we are going to have difficulty communicating with people who just go to the forums to get help with their desktop
<AlanBell> unless the forums can add some geocoded advert banners for locos or something
<tshirtman> hey, US english is different than UK english, you spell colour instead of color, i know people who would not tolerate such "abominations" ^^
<tshirtman> (in french community a lot of people flame people when their langage is too poor :])
<tshirtman> i think other french speaking loco may have the same problem with us
<tshirtman> we have more than a few users from other french speakin countries
<AlanBell> we have actually done translations of everything in main to en_GB
<AlanBell> good for schools
<tshirtman> :)
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
<tshirtman> hey, cool list of translations :)
<tshirtman> will try to learn some :)
<tshirtman> anyway, i don't currently have a solution about the overlap of language communities
<tshirtman> having a part of official forums is a good thing (somewhat) but you still lack visibility
<kinouchou> it's good yours translations guidelines
 * tshirtman was using a mix of uk english and us english :(
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-22
<wers> mpt?
<aday1> wers: hey! what's cookin?
<thorwil> hi wers, aday1
<aday1> thorwil: hi :)
<wers> hi aday1 and thorwil
<wers> who's familiar with the windicators?
<aday1> wers: mpt :)
<wers> lol
<wers> how about you thorwil ?
<thorwil> read a bit about it, saw the wireframes
<thorwil> i pinged mpt in #ayatana
<wers> i wonder how it will work with upstream stuff
<aday1> wers: it was rejected as a gnome module, and gnome shell kills it when it launches
<wers> aday1, oooh
<wers> 'cause I'm discussing the Firefox button with Mozilla's UX
<aday1> wers: the gnome shell designs for this stuff are here: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Guidelines/SystemStatus/
<aday1> wers: hang on, i'm getting confused. thought you were talking about the notification area...
<aday1> wers: not sure how that relates to windicators, implementation-wise
<wers> aday1, ooh
<wers> my main concern is client side buttons on the window border
<wers> i wonder how the windicators project would affect this
<aday1> wers: tricky one. afaik, windicators are designed to add optional additional functionality. so there shouldn't be a reason not to use them from a ux pov
<wers> yeah. we just have to know the technical limitations and stuff. hmm
<aday1> thorwil, wers: i wrote this earlier today: http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/GettingStarted any comments/ideas?
<aday1> i also updated the heuristic evaluation page: http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HeuristicEvaluation
<wers> looks good
<thorwil> aday1: 4 and 5 are not really separate points
<wers> aday1, how do people land on those pages?
<aday1> i realised that gnome doesn't have a good place to point new ux people at
<aday1> wers: i'll be linking to it from the usability project home page. i'm thinking it could be good for the ux advocates stuff too
<wers> aday1, that's right. if I saw something like that when I was starting, things would've been much smoother
<aday1> thorwil: thanks, i'll change that :)
<wers> You know what, I think, having a meeting like this upstream would also be a good idea, yes?
<thorwil> aday1: link to a guide on reporting/triaging bugs
<wers> GNOME Usability meeting every week
<thorwil> careful with the "like this" ;)
<wers> oh.. yes.hehe
<aday1> wers: that's a really good idea
<thorwil> aday1: http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HeuristicEvaluation doesn't make it clear if the page itself should become a resource, or if it's more about the pointers to elsewhere
<thorwil> aday1: a line like "Simple and natural dialog" does need some explanation
<aday1> thorwil: yeah, i'm still working on that. it's someone else's page that i only found today :)
<wers> aday1, we can also focus on UX, as a whole, not just usability
<thorwil> wers: i would have a hard time to separate UX and usability
<wers> looks like the word "usability" is too conventional in GNOME that we sometimes tend to overlook the whole UX
<wers> UX is an umbrella term for usability, information architecture, interaction design, and accessibility
<thorwil> wers: cool. then i would have a hard time to separate usability from information architecture, interaction design, and accessibility ;)
<wers> lol
<aday1> wers: the emphasis on 'usability' in gnome is a historical hangover, and it's pretty entrenched. it'd be nice to move to ux, but that would be a lot of work
<wers> aday1, let's start doing
<thorwil> wers: to me, UX is just a neutral term, where usability implies that you deal with something measurable. i would not define the scope to be different
<aday1> yeah, ux is a broader term. it's a bit more flexible than usability
<aday1> the gnome usability pages include material which has nothing to do with usability :/
<wers> according to ISO, UX is the perception and response to the use or anticipated use of something (which is software in this case)
<wers> usability is just the ability of something to be used
<aday1> wers: that's a rather narrow definition in my view
<wers> aday1, which one?
<wers> okay here's a more complete  one. usability involves learnability, efficiency, memorability, lack of errors, and satisfaction
<wers> disciplines under UX have the same goal, but they have different means and driving forces
<wers> perhaps, the easiest one to differentiate is accessibility, which focuses on people with impairments
<wers> see, it's driven by impairments, but the goal is just the same
<aday1> wers: the iso one. for me, UX isn't just about usage, or the practicalities of usage
<thorwil> to me, usability is the combination of effectiveness, efficiency and user satisfaction of a tool, in the context of a specific audience, task or set of tasks and environment
<aday1> wers: so ux is about how software makes a person feel
<aday1> wers: is it exciting? fun? engaging? etc...
<aday1> wers: ux bleeds into marketing quite a bit of the time
<wers> aday1, that's just the socio-emotional side of things. there's also physical, cognitive, and... spiritual. ahehe
<aday1> wers: i wouldn't separate the cognitive from the emotional, but that's maybe getting a bit theoretical ;)
<wers> I'm writing about this for a conference. I'll show my paper when it's done :D
<vish> hey all!
<thorwil> hi vish
<wers> aday1, you should separate it. I recommend reading Don Norman's emotional design :)
<aday1> vish: hey! watch out! it's getting a bit academic in here...
<wers> affective design is a discipline by itself
<aday1> wers: and i would recommend that you read william james. :)
<wers> aday1, I'll do that :D
<wers> hi vish
<vish> aday1: haha , speaking of watching out ;)   http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/menus-standard.html.en#the-file-menu  might be getting a makeover next week ;)
<thorwil> vish: so how do you feel about the socio-economic realities of user experience design in the context of frobnicated cloud sharing services?
<aday1> wers: http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/23343/
<wers> aday1, thanks!
<vish> thorwil: reading that line feels like my head is spinning ;)
<aday1> vish: cool! who/when/where/how
<vish> aday1: mpt plans to get get that fixed as part of the HIG update
<vish> during guadec
<aday1> vish: good stuff. we're having a hig writing session on the monday
<vish> yeah , i guess during that one.
<vish> wers: actually mpt /is/ writing the windicators guidelines...
<vish> someone has to bring some sensibility there :p
<wers> vish, cool
<wers> and that's the reason why he's unavailable?
<vish> wers: canonical sprint prague ,maybe
<aday1> that's the danger of windicators. instead of solving the notification area, they could just make it worse
<vish> aday1: +1
<aday1> anybody got anything going on they want to talk about?
<wers> I have one.. related to windicators...
<wers> firefox wants to draw a button on the window border but there are issues
<wers> the app can't tell what's going on in the window border. it can't tell if the close min max buttons are on the left or the right or whatever
<wers> so mozilla guys didnt include it, which makes Firefox 4 on linux look old compared to the windows counterpart
<wers> they also think that a firefox button will break the menu bar convention
<vish> :/
<wers> the guys upstream are innovating, but gnome's conventions are restricting them
<wers> so what do we do about this? we can't just change every menu bar and turn them into app buttons, right?
<vish> wers: well , hbons , garett seem to favor the menubutton , so probably might happen
<wers> now, there's this windicators project. i'm just thinking that the work here can be used for this issue
<jcastro> wers: the best way to start this discussion is on the ayatana mailing list
<aday1> wers: why not?
<aday1> vish: agreed
<jcastro> (and check the archives for past discussions)
<wers> vish, that's cool
<wers> jcastro, i'll do that
<aday1> well, maybe not every app... ;)
<wers> aday1, yeah. that's the thing. consistency
<thorwil> the though of checking the ayatana ml archive sends chills down my spine
<wers> lol
<wers> i'll start a thread on ayatana and gnome usability MLs
<aday1> wers: consistency is a means to an end
<wers> aday1, what does that mean?
<aday1> wers: but we probably do need some guidelines on writing app menus
<wers> I agree
<aday1> wers: the goal is to make interfaces understandable
<wers> yep
<aday1> wers: one way to do that is to have them consistent - so users know what to expect and how it works
<wers> exactly
<aday1> wers: but there are lots of other ways - having clear labels, logically arranged UIs, etc
<wers> as long as it won't alienate
<aday1> wers: and if you do those things well, consistency isn't necessary
<wers> that's arguable
<aday1> it depends on the context
<wers> and the execution
<aday1> agreed
<thorwil> "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds", but in software, there tends to be a lack of the good kind of consistency
<aday1> ha ha
<aday1> i presume this stuff works. google will be testing chrome
<jcastro> wers: appmenu stuff is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationMenu
<wers> jcastro, thanks. checking it out
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream under Integration too
<wers> jcastro, actually, the firefox button get rids of that bar
<wers> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/4.0_Linux_Theme_Mockups
<wers> oops. no firefox button there. wait
<wers> the one on the upper left of Fx http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://people.mozilla.com/~sethb/BangaloreDevDay/images/Firefox-4-Mockup.png&imgrefurl=http://revolver360.wordpress.com/2010/06/29/firefox-4-rc1-beta-feels-great-so-far-welcome-for-early-adopters/&usg=__W5F-HbFEgNq6ULtBwLtyXaGdBUM=&h=655&w=950&sz=436&hl=en&start=0&sig2=LLY-L055CKdG_PNZVQpNuA&tbnid=OKIqt64uMpuPoM:&tbnh=133&tbnw=193&ei=7kBITIOUDYHXcN7BkKwM&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfirefox%2B4
<wers> %2Bbeta%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dubuntu%26sa%3DN%26channel%3Dcs%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D710%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=262&page=1&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:21,s:0
<wers> ooh my that's a long link sorry
<jcastro> tinyurl dude. :D
<wers> this one http://people.mozilla.com/~sethb/BangaloreDevDay/images/Firefox-4-Mockup.png
<wers> just like the opera button
<thorwil> wers: will that FF button be in the corner on a maximized window?
<aday1> how does this work with chrome on os x?
<wers> thorwil, I think
<thorwil> because that's the thing going poof if the wm buttons are on the left of it in ubuntu
<wers> aday1, afaik, chrome draws its own window border on all platforms
<wers> thorwil, yep. it's never been executed on Linux. the behavior I was talking about was Fx button on windows
<aday1> wers: i'm just wondering about the global menu bar in une...
<wers> gtk+ guys are working on client side buttons but they still don't know if and how this will work
<wers> aday1, oh yes. that's exactly what we're avoiding
<wers> it's really difficult to deviate from conventions because a lot of stuff do break
<thorwil> that's why i wish those conventions would be on a higher level
<thorwil> timeout ends meeting :)
 * thorwil pokes vish for remark about coffee/food
<vish> thorwil: aw , dang it! I forgot! , next time :D
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-23
<dudanogueira> good night all :)
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pleia2> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for July 22nd. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<pleia2> this is a make-up meeting for one we had to reschedule from last week :)
<pleia2> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
 * beuno apologizes
<pleia2> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<pleia2> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<pleia2> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<pleia2> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<pleia2> dyfet was approved by email since he started his app during the last meeting, we'll announce his approval along with the rest of the applicants, so congrats dyfet!
<nhandler> Congratulations
<greg-g> yes, congrats again, dyfet!
<pleia2> is jturek here?
<pleia2> ok, we'll come back to him if he makes it
<pleia2> stlsaint: are you here?
<stlsaint> here
<pleia2> [TOPIC] stlsaint membership
<beuno> hi stlsaint
<MootBot> New Topic:  stlsaint membership
<stlsaint> beuno: hello
<pleia2> stlsaint: please go ahead and introduce yourself and link to your wiki :)
<stlsaint> names matthew, nickname is stlsaint. I am employed with the US govt as a information tech. I have used ubuntu a little over a year 1/2. Here is link to wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stlsaint
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stlsaint
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stlsaint
<stlsaint> Sorry for small introduction but i hope that my wiki explains more
<pleia2> stlsaint: if you were to pick a strong point of yours within the community, what would you highlight as something you are most proud of/spend the most time on?
<stlsaint> support
<nhandler> stlsaint: I notice that you mention you are part of the Screencast team. What have you been doing as a member of that team?
 * maco waits for wiki to loa
<maco> *load
<maco> stlsaint: us gov? so are you local to me then? dc area?
<stlsaint> nhandler: yes, the team has just been recently been reorganized so there has not been a cast yet but my first plan is to do a screencast of a manual partition of maverick
<stlsaint> maco: i am a soldier in the US Army
<maco> ah
<pleia2> stlsaint: any tx team plans on the horizon?
<dudanogueira> stlsaint: and events, with pictures of happy users?
<dudanogueira> hehehe
<greg-g> I was just getting ready to ask why it is call the "centex" team, but I just woke up from a nap, so it just took my brain a second to realize the obviousness :)
<stlsaint> pleia2: yes, i have proposed a get together of the various seperate locos in a "geeknic" and i have future plans for the killeen team becoming more formal
<nhandler> stlsaint: You mention a goal of becoming a bugcontrol member. Are you part of the bugsquad mentoring program right now?
<stlsaint> nhandler: yes i am, my mentor is ddecator
<greg-g> oh good
<nhandler> :)
<stlsaint> :D
<pleia2> [VOTE] stlsaint membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  stlsaint membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<beuno> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from beuno. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dudanogueira> +1
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dudanogueira. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<nhandler> Congratulations stlsaint !
<pleia2> congrats and welcome stlsaint!
<maco> wow we got 6 board members to show up? O_O
<stlsaint> very nice :D
<greg-g> congrats stlsaint!
<stlsaint> thank you all!!
<pleia2> maco: yeah, for a meeting with only one applicant, doh!
<maco> congrats!
<greg-g> :)
<dudanogueira> stlsaint: welcome!
<maco> pleia2:  haha whoops
<stlsaint> dudanogueira: thank you
<stlsaint> greg-g: appreciate it :D
<pleia2> doesn't look like jturek is going to make it
<greg-g> sad
<nhandler> Well, great meeting everyone
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<greg-g> paultag: you missed stlsaint being approved, I saw you wrote a testimonial
<paultag> Ach! I was here to cheer stlsaint :)
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:13.
<stlsaint> paultag: ;)
<paultag> greg-g: yeah, I was in community-team arguing with doctormo
<pleia2> paultag: it's ok, he didn't need you ;)
<greg-g> paultag: it happens
<paultag> righto :)
<paultag> great meeting, grats stlsaint :D
<paultag> thanks approval board :)
<stlsaint> paultag: thanks man
<greg-g> I might have to put that quote in a blog post or something, paultag
<paultag> greg-g: fire at will, that there is public domain ;)
<greg-g> :)
<maco> oh wait look
<jturek> phew - sorry guys.. timezone was off on my iphone from flyin g:(
<pleia2> oh!
<stlsaint> uh oh
<pleia2> going to check real quick to see if we have quorum
<pleia2> jturek: we just wrapped up the meeting, but we can probably reopen :)
<jturek> oh , i am sorry
<jturek> We need a push notification ubuntu-meeting iphone app :)
<pleia2> hehe
<jturek> that is timezone agnostic
<paultag> jturek: or get a droid ;)
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:18. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pleia2> ok, here we go again :)
<pleia2> [TOPIC] jturek membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  jturek membership
<nhandler> Can you introduce yourself jturek ?
<jturek> Sure
<jturek> Hi Guys, I am John Turek  - a long time ubuntu user
<jturek> I have been involved with passing on the ubuntu flame for years, now.  and I run a local linux users group in rural PA
<jturek> My main job runs a UEC with a large voip deployment
<jturek> I'd like to be a ubuntu member to be able to continue my indoctrination of ubuntu to others
<jturek> I have been working more with #ubuntu-community and getting to know everybody there
<jturek> (even was a runner up with Jono's new UEC Laison position)
<jturek> Thanks for considering me for membership
<jturek> nhandler: ok
<maco> where's your wiki link?
<pleia2> jturek: can you discuss some of the work you've done in the community thus far? your wiki is kind of sparse
<dudanogueira> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnTurek
<jturek> Hi, the wiki is space since i have little web based community involvement,  it has mostly been in the local and rural setting.
<jturek> I was on many of th emeetings of the last UDS in belgum (remotely) and contributed some feedback in the UEC meetings and Server
<pleia2> jturek: have you tried working at all with the ubuntu pennsylvania team?
<maco> couldnt get any of the in-person-people to write on it?
<jturek> pleia2: I'd like to reach out to the other ubuntu locals and grow our rural team,  its difficult where i live
<nhandler> jturek: I see you are a member of the 5-a-day team. How much bug triaging have you done?
<pleia2> jturek: loco teams are great for that, pennsylvania is my old loco (I just moved a few months back) and they're a great bunch, a lot of folks who are rural and always looking to swap best practices and tips :)
<jturek> excellent pleia2 i look forward to growing that
<jturek> and nhandler  I made a committment to myself to work on triaging bugs more, I helped with python-snippets and other small jono projects.. and I did alot of bug reporting back in the old days if BitchX and gaim
<jturek> I will continue to give more time as it has become available, esp with Maverick
<dudanogueira> jturek: have you contributed with documentation or support on mailing lists?
<maco> jturek: couldnt get any of the in-person-people to write on your wiki page?
<jturek> Maco,  If its truly required, I will get a snippet from a few local team members and have them added.  Sorry it isn't on there
<nhandler> jturek: It isn't really "required", but they are a very big help
<pleia2> jturek: that'd be great, testimonials are really valueable to this process, particularly in your case where much of your work can not be reflected in statistics and "web work"
<jturek> ok pleia2
<pleia2> if you worked with jono you might also ask him for a testimonial, as well as the folks you've been working with remotely since UDS
 * nhandler has to go to dinner
<jturek> And dudanogueira the support has been in IRC chat alot of the times,  for the lernid and snippets projects, I am doing a proxy impelemntation for Lernid to work behind irc blocked networks
<dudanogueira> that's very good!!
<jturek> since I am blocked at work as well.. which breaks lernid :)
<jturek> I have worked with Amazon EC2 engineers to help get AMI's deployed for customers as well in a consulting role
<pleia2> jturek: if you have time to help with lernid more, you should pop around #ubuntu-classroom-backstage to chat with the classroom folks, I know there are a few bugs out there we'd like to see addressed :)
<jturek> pleia2: i'd be glad to
<pleia2> great :)
<jturek> I usually keep my irc on while my day job is going on... just right now I was out chasing kids around
<jturek> ;)
<pleia2> jturek: so I'd suggest you collect some testimonials from folks who know your work in the community, and then return in a couple months so we can review your app again
<pleia2> oh, and head over to #ubuntu-us-pa to chat with the pennsylvania folks, might even find some others in your area
<nhandler> But you are definitely off to a great start. I look forward to seeing you come back
<jturek> thanks nhandler
<jturek> and pleia2
<jturek> sorry to hold you guys off
<pleia2> no need for apologies, thanks for coming :)
<jturek> maybe an iphone app can be implemented by then so I don't miss this again
<jturek> (yes, and android ) :)
<maco3> android!
<paultag> jturek: Thanks for comming!  P.S. -- If you're close to Ohio, please stop by #ubuntu-us-oh, you're more then welcome over :)
<dudanogueira> or meego, on a near future...
<paultag> </plug>
<maco3> aaaaaaaand come to ohio linuxfest! im sure plenty of us will be there
<paultag> wooo!! +1 maco3
<maco3> yeah </plug>
<maco3> paultag: see you there?
<jturek> I am about 2 hours east of Erie, PA
<paultag> jturek: ah! right around the corner
<paultag> maco3: I'm here :)
<pleia2> [endmeeting]
<paultag> maco3: Oh, yes, duh! See you there!
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:34.
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<maco3> jturek: are you near state college then?
<jturek> alright guys,  i'll gather everything up for the next one
<jturek> maco3: 4 hours north
<dudanogueira> jturek: thank you!!
<jturek> alright, ia m going to get back outside before the kids kill themselves
<maco3> i didnt think there was 4 hours of space between state college and ny O_O
<jturek> HAHA!!!
<jturek> yeah,  google Coudersport, PA
<jturek> I work for Level 3 communications which has an office there.. as a Tier 4 IP/Voice engineer
<jturek> if you ever see level3.com/.net in a traceroute.. thats us
<jturek> :)
<maco3> O_O there's like.... 6 roads one way and 10 roads the other
<jturek> yeap, one stop light
<jturek> alright nice to meet all of you
<maco3> (i'm from pittsburgh and spend holidays in ny, btw)
<maco3> have a nice night
<jturek> oh! cool
<jturek> i'll catch you guys on here, and can I get criticizm about my wiki if I ask one of you to look it over for suggestions after i work on it?
<jturek> don't want to waste y'all time again
<maco3> jturek: im not in pittsburgh anymore though ;-) escaped to a bigger city
<dudanogueira> gotta go, thank you all!
<czajkowski> aloha
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-07-25
<halvors> I did not be a member on last meeting, can someone help me be it on the next?
<nhandler> Isn't there an IRCC meeting now?
<nhandler> jussi, Pici ???
<nhandler> Yeah, I just checked the Fridge. I apologize to anyone who is here (and to those who aren't due to a lack of a reminder email) for the meeting. But unless we get a few more council members in the next 5 minutes or so, we will need to cancel.
<nhandler> Well, the agenda is empty, and it looks like I am the only one here, so I think that we are going to have to cancel this meeting. Thanks for coming (anyone who is here)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-18
<CincoToes> hi
<Benni> Hey@all
 * skaet waves
<skaet> jibel, brendand, pitti, bjf - do we have quorum for a meeting today?
<jibel> Hi all
<jibel> hggdh, ping
<brendand> Hi
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<skaet> coolio   looks like a good start anyhow.
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> SRU/LTS bi-weekly synch meeting.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Reminder, please follow the convention  of using ".." on a separate line when you've finished typing.    Also, If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release overview - skaet
<skaet> .
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release overview - skaet
<skaet> 10.04.3
<skaet> -- targetting July 21st for release.
<skaet> -- new kernel was been pushed to updates late last week.   Thanks to all involved in getting this last set of bug fixes in during the freeze.
<skaet> -- candidate images have been posted on the iso tracker.   Help testing is welcome. Please contact jibel, cjwatson or skaet if showstoppers found during testing.
<skaet> .
<skaet> We've been running into some space issues on cdimage, and some of the old releases have now been moved off to old-images (thanks cjwatson!).  There is supposed to be some more disk space added as well so hopefully we won't get so crunched again for a bit.
<skaet> .
<skaet> This meeting will be moving on the calendar to Tuesdays going forward.
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel SRU status - sconklin or bjf
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel SRU status - sconklin or bjf
<hggdh> hum
<hggdh> I can partially fill in if needed
<bjf> sconklin is working on it
<sconklin> this is kernel new prep week. We are tracking a number of regressions that have turned up after release of kernels last week.
<sconklin> ..
<cjwatson> o/
<skaet> sconklin,  any new regressions on the lucid kernel we need to worry about for the release?
<skaet> go cjwatson
 * skaet cjwatson followed protocol,  ;)   o/  after him
<cjwatson> what's the status of the various peripheral lucid kernel items on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html ?  Do we need to worry about any of them not being in -updates for 10.04.3 this week?
<sconklin> possibly. I just became aware of it before the meeting and haven't even looked at it yet. Stand by for the link
<sconklin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/811508
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 811508 in linux (Ubuntu) "Upon updating kernel, lost ethernet networking." [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> (right now, if no action is taken, the default will be that none of those reach 10.04.3, and I want to check that that won't make anyone's world collapse)
 * skaet looking up the bug
<sconklin> cjwatson: I don't know whether it will or not. Honestly, we don;t pay much attention to the backports due to lack of time
<cjwatson> there's also linux-firmware
<sconklin> yeah, don't know about that either
<cjwatson> ok, I'm going to assume nobody is bothered then
<sconklin> afaik, we have to way to test the firmware package anyway
<cjwatson> if that's not true, let me know ASAP and get the bugs validated :-)
<cjwatson> (at least regression-tested ...)
<sconklin> yep, I don't know what gets tested by QA, will ask
<sconklin> I do know that we have new backports kernels in the pipeline, and that should not affect the point release at all
<hggdh> currently QA only tests security regressions, LTP, and boot on arches (bare-metal, KVM, EC2)
<sconklin> hggdh: thanks
<sconklin> ..
<skaet> sconklin,  yeah that bug sounds like one to keep an eye on, esp. since it also has +3 people on it already.
<sconklin> we have at least two severe regressions in Natty that only appeared after release
<skaet> let us know if root cause is figured out if its something we have to respin for, or if we can release note it.
<brendand> o/
<skaet> re: Natty,  ack.
<skaet> brendand,  go
<sconklin> ok, what's the deadline for respin notification?
<brendand> sconklin - can i get bug #'s for those. want to check if it's anything we should/could have caught with our testing
<brendand> ?
<sconklin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/810400
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 810400 in linux (Ubuntu) "Disks not recognized after upgrading to 2.6.38-10 " [Undecided,New]
<sconklin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/809878
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 809878 in linux (Ubuntu) "Wireless network & graphics card stop working after upgrade to 2.6.38-10" [Undecided,New]
<sconklin> There may be more. I'm gathering now
<skaet> sconklin,  soonest at this point.  I think we'll need to know by end of day today,  if at all possible.
<sconklin> ack
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] HW certification - brendand
<MootBot> New Topic:  HW certification - brendand
<brendand> == Hardware Certification SRU Report ==
<brendand> â¢ Tested Natty kernel 2.6.38-10.46 which was released recently. Results: http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/natty-proposed.html
<brendand> â¢ Tested Maverick kernel 2.6.35-30.54 released before Rally: http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/wk25_2011/maverick-proposed.html
<brendand> â¢ Tested Lucid kernel for 10.04.3 (2.6.32-33.70): http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/lucid-proposed.html
<brendand> â¢ Currently testing Maverick kernel 2.6.35-30.56: http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/maverick-proposed.html
<brendand> ...
<skaet> brendand,  what's the summary from your perspective for lucid?
<brendand> skaet - it looks fine from our point of view.
<hggdh> \o
<cjwatson> o/
<skaet> hggdh go
<hggdh> brendand: how about bug 806586 -- will it be done this week (just curiosity)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806586 in linux-lts-backport-natty (Ubuntu) "linux-lts-backport-natty: 2.6.38-10.46~lucid1 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806586
<brendand> i'm not sure if we should be testing that one
<brendand> a normal update would only yield 2.6.32-33, right?
<hggdh> correct
<hggdh> you have to explicitly select it
<brendand> no, we don't have the capacity to test backports as well
<brendand> just the main kernel
<hggdh> can you please mark the task invalid so that we can release it?
<hggdh> ..
<brendand> sure
<skaet> cjwatson,  go
<cjwatson> there seems to be at least one failure on every model.  I'm not sure I have an account for hwcert data to inspect the details, but is there a common factor there?
<cjwatson> (sorry if this is a well-known thing)
 * skaet wonders this too
<brendand> cjwatson - fine question. there is a test flaw that's getting fixed.
<skaet> any other questions?
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA status - hggdh
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA status - hggdh
<hggdh> well, I have just been doing the kernel QA, so no news (apart from what sconklin and brendand and I already discussed)
<hggdh> ..
<hggdh> oops
<hggdh> we are on track, as far as I can see
<hggdh> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] 10.04.3 testing status - jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.04.3 testing status - jibel
<jibel>  * Smoke Tested Ubuntu alternate|desktop|server|dvd amd64|i386: OK
<jibel>  * English|Non-english: OK
<jibel>  * OEM: KO. Finally found the bug mentioned during last release meeting (bug 650703)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 650703 in Genesi EfikaMX Support Project "oem-config-prepare works, but oem-config fails to start after reboot" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650703
<jibel> Fix uploaded to -proposed and verified but waiting for a real image to definitely mark it verified
<jibel> Verification of installer changes in -proposed ok.
<jibel> ..
<skaet> Thanks jibel.
<skaet> Any concerns other than the ones mentioned so far for 10.04.3?
<hggdh> o/
<skaet> hggdh,  go
<hggdh> this is not as much 10.04.3 (although also applies): it would be nice if HC could test backported kernels, it would vastly increase the number of different hardware we test on
<hggdh> ..
<brendand> o/
<skaet> hggdh, will ask about it, and cost/tradeoff implications then.
<skaet> go brendand.
<brendand> the main reason for certification testing is to ensure our certificates still apply
<brendand> catching bugs etc is a good thing but doesn't extend to us testing kernels that we are not 'assuring' under the remit of the certification
<bjf> but are those systems not supposed to be certified to run natty and maverick kernels which is mostly what lts-backport kernels are?
<brendand> bjf - sure, but we are testing that kernel when it goes out as a natty kernel then
<brendand> so i guess what testing does apply between the two gets done
<bjf> the difference is that they have been built with lts toolchain and are running with a lucid userspace
<sconklin> One particular thing that does not get tested is if there is a problem with the more recent kernels on the older userspace X
<brendand> true, true. in the end it comes down to resources and priorities.
<brendand> in an ideal world etc...
<sconklin> yep, I understand that.
<brendand> cool
<bjf> so what are your resources and priorities? how long does it take to test a lucid kernel on the certification HW?
<brendand> bjf - a couple of days
<bjf> you are currently testing lucid, maverick and natty, correct?
<ara> o/
<brendand> that's right
<skaet> brendand, lets talk about this more a bit offline,  and see if there's a chance we can use the slots when oneiric images are broken to increase the testing of the backports?
<bjf> are you at max capacity with that?
<ara> skaet, we are not going to test backports. Right now we don't certify them
<ara> I understand that our certification testing is useful for Ubuntu, to check how things are going in terms of hardware issues
<ara> but in the end, we are here to certify hardware, and we have to use our resources to do it better and better everytime
<ara> writing new tests, improving our processes, etc
<ara> but we can't test stuff we just don't certify, just because it could be useful
<skaet> ara, suggest we take this offline then
<ara> skaet, sure thing
<skaet> [TOPIC] General SRU status - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  General SRU status - pitti
 * skaet not seeing pitti
<skaet> or martins for that matter.
<vish>  "<pitti> good night everyone!" <<  about 10mins back
<vish> from -desktop
<skaet> thanks vish
<skaet> [TOPIC] OEM priorities - vanhoof
<MootBot> New Topic:  OEM priorities - vanhoof
<vanhoof> skaet: here
<skaet> :)
<vanhoof> skaet: we're pretty well sorted presently, we have a number of fixes we're looking forward to that have already been reviewed and ack'd for the next natty sru cycle
<vanhoof> nothing hot presently for 10.10, or 10.04
<vanhoof> ..
<skaet> thanks vanhoof
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] New business, last chance for general questions? - all
<MootBot> New Topic:  New business, last chance for general questions? - all
<cjwatson> jibel pretty much got it all for 10.04.3
<skaet> thanks then everyone.
<cjwatson> respin in progress for that ubiquity fix; if it doesn't validate, though, we'll just drop back to the validated ubiquity currently in -updates
<cjwatson> in any event, there will be a respin to use only -updates
<cjwatson> anything not in -updates at that point won't be in 10.04.3
<cjwatson> so if there's anything in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html you care about, speak now or forever hold your peace
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> :)
<skaet> Thanks cjwatson
 * skaet looks around for questions....
<skaet> ok,  time to end it then
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:49.
<hggdh> thank you skaet
<jibel> Thanks skaet , good evening !
<hggdh> bonne soiree, jibel
<skaet> thanks vanhoof, jibel, hggdh, brendand, ara, bjf, sconklin, cjwatson, ara
<ara> thanks skaet
<jdstrand> hi!
<micahg> o/
<mdeslaur> hello
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:03. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> [ACTION] jjohansen to give jdstrand updated apparmor for testing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jjohansen to give jdstrand updated apparmor for testing
<jjohansen> jdstrand: ugh, sorry debugging the weekend revisions, I'll dump it on you in a little bit
<jdstrand> jjohansen: cool, thanks. I still have a bit to work on before I'll need them. hopefully tomorrow or so is when I can dive in on them
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> last week I completed security-o-community work items
<jdstrand> I started on dbus/apparmor work items and will continue to work on that this week
<jdstrand> this week I am in the happy place
<jdstrand> I am preparing a ufw upload for non-network-manager work items/bug fixes
<jdstrand> and (of course), I have another manager training class
<jdstrand> that is it from me. kees is out today, so, mdeslaur, you're up
<mdeslaur> I need to test the logrotate update I have
<mdeslaur> and will be going down the list
<mdeslaur> that's about it!
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're next
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I have two embargoed issues that are due to come out this week.
<sbeattie> I'm also taking a day of holiday on wednesday
<sbeattie> I need to catch up on a backlog of apparmor issues.
<sbeattie> Oh, I'm also recovering a bit from upgrading my laptop over the weekend to oneiric.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: you're up.
<micahg> so, chromium is due for their 6 week major version update
<micahg> I'm working on webkit this week
<micahg> that's it for me
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<MootBot> New Topic:  Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> one of my work items was to identify and report on community supported packages that would be a good place for people to contribute
<jdstrand> so, each week I'll be reporting on this
<jdstrand> as such...
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security on Freenode. The highlighted packages for this week are:
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/textpattern.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/textpattern.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ayttm.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ayttm.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dhcpcd5.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dhcpcd5.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/freebsd-sendpr.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/freebsd-sendpr.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xmlsec1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xmlsec1.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: do you want to give the link in the wiki where the weekly set lives?
<jdstrand> sure
<sbeattie> jdstrand: and thanks for working on that, it's a nice idea.
<jdstrand> the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/HighlightedPackages is updated weekly
<micahg> o/
<jdstrand> our GettingInvolved page includes this page
<jdstrand> and dholbach will be incorporating that into his pages/community work
<jdstrand> micahg: go ahead
<micahg> there was a question over the weekend about sun java updates in hardy, it's in multiverse, I was wondering if the team is willing to sponsor updates with a server leaning for hardy still even in multiverse
<micahg> ..
<jdstrand> micahg: we (the security team) will not be providing updates. sun java is in partner now, and iamfuzz is the person who is in charge of updating this, so would be the best person to ask
<jdstrand> that said, we would be happy to sponsor updated packages
<micahg> jdstrand: k, thanks
<jdstrand> any other questions?
<jdstrand> ok, thanks everyone!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:24.
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jdstrand> sure thing! :)
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<Rhonda> Made it, even though they closed the venue. Did the meeting already start?
<stgraber> nope
<Rhonda> â¦ and actually, I did remind a DMB member about the meeting, does this give extra points?  ;)
<persia> Heh.  No, but it increases the chances that we *can* have the meeting.
<maco> oh hello
<Rhonda> He is over here at debconf, we started talking a few hours ago, and he said "Oh, there is a meeting tonight?" :)
<stgraber> Laney, bdrung: ping
<Rhonda> cody, actually
<bdrung> o/
<Rhonda> I like the aspect of putting faces to names in such conferences. :)
<stgraber> so, that's persia, maco, bdrung, geser and I. Looks like we have quorum ;)
<Rhonda> stgraber: I would hope cody tries to come on soonish
<bdrung> Rhonda: look at my launchpad account, there is a small picture
<maco> i havent sent out the results of the last meeting. i think everyone's voted on that last application now, so:  are we sticking with the tabulation procedures persia wrote up on the mailing list in evaluating that one?
<Rhonda> cody will be online any moment. :)
<Rhonda> He is sitting infront of me right now.
<persia> maco, The last meeting consisted of Laney and I being depressed that nobody else showed up.
<persia> Oh, the last actual meeting.  Nevermind :)
<maco> the last one that wasnt on a "yay its a holiday i dont have to go to work and get to sleep in!" day ;)
<Rhonda> cody-somerville: say hi :)
<maco> cody-somerville: hello goodbye hello
<cody-somerville> Hello :)
<cody-somerville> Have we started yet?
<persia> cody-somerville, Not effectively.
<persia> Could we start?  Who is chair?
 * cody-somerville only has like 40 minutes of battery.
<cody-somerville> I can chair
<cody-somerville> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:12. The chair is cody-somerville.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cody-somerville> [topic] Rollcall
<MootBot> New Topic:  Rollcall
<persia> o/
<cody-somerville> bdrung, Laney, geser, stgraber: ping
<bdrung> o/
 * stgraber waves
<maco> o/
<geser> \o
<cody-somerville> Laney looks away so we
<cody-somerville> 'll begin.
<cody-somerville> [topic] Administrative Matters - Temporary resolution: Endorse Emmet's voting summary in the interim pending TB feedback
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative Matters - Temporary resolution: Endorse Emmet's voting summary in the interim pending TB feedback
 * persia auto-recuses
<cody-somerville> Emmet's summary matches my recollection of the agreement reached by members of the board during our first term.
<bdrung> can you post the link to his mail?
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/private/developer-membership-board/2011-July/000529.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/private/developer-membership-board/2011-July/000529.html
<cody-somerville> Since there was some confusion about our voting procedure and the original agreement was never officially documented, Emmet is moving to have the current board endorse the voting summary as written in his e-mail pending any feedback from the TB regarding their current review of the operation of the board.
<persia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html is a bit easier to get to for most folk
<cody-somerville> I'd like to call the vote. If the board votes in the positive, we'll move forward with meeting. If the board votes against, I'll call the meeting to a close until we can agree on our voting procedure.
<stgraber> sounds good
<bdrung> yes
<persia> And I'm *not* moving that the current board approve that: if people want something else, that's fine.  I just don't want there to be confusion about the current system.
<geser> one question
<geser> if all 7 members are present and 4 vote +1 and 3 vote -1 that would result in a +1 and a deferral
<persia> According to the procedure set previously, yes.
<cody-somerville> [vote] Agree that our current voting procedure is as described by Emmet via e-mail (ref: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html)
<geser> if only the four members are present that voted +1, that would result in +4 and the application approved without question the missing members, right?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Agree that our current voting procedure is as described by Emmet via e-mail (ref: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> geser, Unless they already voted by e-mail
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> geser: Yes, although it is expected that any non-attendees would object by mail prior to the interview if they had objections and didn't expect to attend.
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> If DMB members aren't reviewing applications prior to the interviews, we're probably doing it wrong.
 * maco is re-reading
<cody-somerville> (
<cody-somerville> (What does E mean btw in the numbering of the applicants?)
<cody-somerville> oh, e-mail
<maco> yes
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<geser> +1 even if I would prefer to have a voting system which doesn't depend on how many members are at a meeting (the case I mentioned above is constructed and unlikely to happen)
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cody-somerville> #endvote
<cody-somerville> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<persia> geser: How does this system depend on how many people show up?
<persia> It certainly wasn't intended to do so, and if it does, then it needs to be changed.
<cody-somerville> [AGREED] Current DMB voting procedure is as described at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Current DMB voting procedure is as described at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications - Juan Negron
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications - Juan Negron
<cody-somerville> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JuanNegron/UbuntuContributingDeveloper
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JuanNegron/UbuntuContributingDeveloper
<cody-somerville> negronjl, Are you here?
<persia> Hrm?  I'm still concerned about the statement that the voting procedure depends on meeting attendance.
<persia> Can we resolve that first?
<cody-somerville> Can we take it to the ml? I'm running out of battery.
<cody-somerville> Didn't we already process Juan Negron and Marc Cluet at the last meeting?
<geser> I'm happy to move it to the ML. That way I've more time to word it properly (and also notice any errors in my thinking).
<maco> Marc went to the mailing list
<negronjl> I'm here cody-somerville
<persia> OK.  I'll just say that if results of the system do depend on meeting attendance, I'm against that system.
<cody-somerville> negronjl, Can you introduce yourself and your contributions to Ubuntu?
<geser> persia: it might only happen in border-cases, but those are that one cause the problems about how to interpret the voting
<bdrung> geser: i agree that non attending dmb member are a problem in the current voting system.
<negronjl> Hi all.  My name is Juan Negron.  I currently work for Canonical with the Systems Integrations Group.  I am currently contributing to Ensemble (lp:ensemble), Principia (lp:principia), Orchestra (lp:orchestra) and Orchestra Modules (lp:orchestra-modules).
<cody-somerville> negronjl, So Launchpad says your first sponsored upload to Ubuntu was on June 8th 2011, is that correct?
<bdrung> negronjl: when did you began packaging?
<negronjl> cody-somerville:  Sounds about right.  It should be facter-plugins or orchestra ( and modules )
<negronjl> bdrung:  I started packaging a few years back but nothing that has been uploaded....that I started when I started in Canonical in Dec.
<cody-somerville> negronjl, And you created your application for UCD on June 13th, 2011 - right?
<negronjl> ...bdrun:  Dec. 2010
<cody-somerville> negronjl, When did you join Canonical btw? I don't think we've had a pleasure of meeting before.
<negronjl> cody-somerville:  not sure of the dates...I've been working on packages for the above mentioned projects for a while so, they could have been ready before but uploaded then....the dates sound about right though
<negronjl> cody-somerville:  I started on Dec. 2010
<negronjl> cody-somerville:  Worked for zaid_h and now kirkland
<persia> negronjl, Could you describe what you believe to be the relationship between the orchestra project and the Ubuntu project?
<cody-somerville> negronjl, What sort of contributions did you make to Ubuntu before starting work on ensemble?
<negronjl> persia:  Orchestra is the mechanism to deploy Ubuntu server onto bare metal...Using cobbler, pxe booting, etc.
<negronjl> cody-somerville:  Orchestra and Orchestra-modules.  In the 1.x branch, I did facter-plugins ( facter-customfacts-plugins ) and all of the puppet recipes as well as some of the integration work with lynxman
<cody-somerville> negronjl, and before that?
<persia> negronjl, So, do you believe Orchestra and Ubuntu to be one project, or separate-but-parallel projects?
<negronjl> Dec. ( when I was hired ).  I was working with lynxman in the development of the toolchain that will  later be integrated in Orchestra ( the original name was sitoolchain ).  The toolchain was based on puppet and mcollective with a log of "glue" code to "orchestrate" deployment in EC2, UEC and OpenStack
<negronjl> persia:  I see Orchestra as a deployment and orchestration mechanism to deploy Ubuntu Server.   Orchestra is the tool that gets Ubuntu Server deployed in bare metal quickly and effortlessly so the admins can go about their business.
<negronjl> as a side note.  Orchestra will work with Ensemble ( that work is being done right now )
<persia> I understand that.  Do you believe them to be part of the same project, or do you see Orchestra as a project to deploy the output of the Ubuntu project?
<negronjl> persia:  separate projects with a very parallel development and deployment cycle ( after all, Orchestra is mainly managed by the server/platform team )
<geser> negronjl: is Orchestra Canonical funded and do you expect to continue packaging it the next couple months?
<negronjl> geser:  Orchestra as a project I believe it is but, I have to be clear about this.... .It is an open source project.  The main focus is to get it out right now and the people most interested in it's development at the moment happen to work for Canonical however, I ( and others ) are going to diff. conferences and promoting Orchestra ( and Ensemble ) to gain community support and development.
<persia> negronjl, So, if Orchestra is separate from Ubuntu, would it be correct to say that your contributions to Ubuntu consist of delivery of orchestra software to Ubuntu (orchestra, orchestra-modules), and patch contributions for facter-plugins and dotdee?
<negronjl> geser:  As an example, I did a presentation at Structure/2011 where a Ben Saller ( Ensemble ) and myself did a talk about Orchestra and Ensemble
<negronjl> persia:  ... and principia but, more or less, you can distill my package and bug contributions down to that level...yes.
<cody-somerville> Any other questions?
 * persia has one, but needs another minute
<negronjl> geser:  I am also scheduled to talk at CouchDB where we will be (again) talking about Orchestra and Ensemble as orchestrations for Ubuntu Server
<negronjl> as another side note:  With or without Canonical, I intend to continue my contributions to Ensemble, Principia, Orchestra, orchestra-modules and facter-plugins  just the same
<persia> negronjl, How do you feel about your experience of social integration with the Ubuntu Development community?
<maco> What do you think would be the next step for you?  PPU for orchestra-related packages?
<negronjl> persia:  re: social integration  ... I'm getting there .. there's a lot of ground to cover and could be quite overwhelming if taken all at once....
 * cody-somerville has 19 minutes of battery left.
<bdrung> i am ready to vote
<negronjl> persia:  re: next step...PPU for the packages belonging to the projects I work with ... that would be nice
 * persia is done with questions
<stgraber> I'm ready to vote too
<cody-somerville> [vote] Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications - Juan Negron
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications - Juan Negron.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> -1 : I think the contributions are strong enough, if we assume that Orchestra and Ubuntu are the same project (as I prefer to believe).  Given the lack of belief by the applicant that these are contributions to Ubuntu, I am uncomfortable granting the applicant the authority to speak on behalf of the Ubuntu project.
<MootBot> -1 received from persia. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<persia> (as contributions after subtracting Orchestra work are small)
<bdrung> +0 it's not enough packaging done and only one month past since the first upload. he has done a lot of upstream work, but this does not count in this application
<MootBot> Abstention received from bdrung. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<geser> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
<cody-somerville> -1 : Would like to see additional work sponsored into Ubuntu (or additional uploads via PPU) as well as greater integration with wider Ubuntu community.
<MootBot> -1 received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 2 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -2
<cody-somerville> negronjl, I'd like to encourage you to apply for PPU for the ensemble related packages you maintain after you get a few more sponsored uploads.
<geser> negronjl: did your sponsors suggest to apply for UCD or did you decide it yourself?
<negronjl> geser:  my sponsors suggested it.
<maco> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from maco. 0 for, 2 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -2
<kirkland> negronjl's sponsors are baffled by what counts as a contribution to Ubuntu any more
<maco> i think with a few more uploads to those specific packages, skipping straight to PPU might be possible, but at the moment since it's only been aobut a month of packaging type stuff in ubuntu, i'm abstaining
<maco> kirkland: you missed my explanation of my vote, so i'll repeat it
<maco> i think with a few more uploads to those specific packages, skipping straight to PPU might be possible, but at the moment since it's only been aobut a month of packaging type stuff in ubuntu, i'm abstaining
<geser> kirkland: what would you count to Ubuntu *development* contributions?
<persia> kirkland, What is baffling?  My concern is that negronjl clearly said that Orchestra was not Ubuntu, so when discounting that, there's not much left.  I don't happen to believe that Orchestra *should* be enough separate from Ubuntu for there to be a distinction, but I do expect that people applying for membership believe that their contributions are contributions to Ubuntu.
<bdrung> kirkland: most of his work is upstream work
<kirkland> geser: let's take this offline;  I don't want to derail your meeting again, I'm sorry.
<geser> I try to understand where the view of sponsors don't match the view of the DMB (related to the voting discussion on the TB list)
<cody-somerville> I find it difficult to be comfortable approving someone for UCD when they filed their application for it a few days after their first upload being sponsored into Ubuntu.
<cody-somerville> Sponsorship is a core component of our model of contribution. There may be new ways to contribute to Ubuntu these days but I don't think the DMB is sufficiently familiar with how to measure those contributions.
<persia> kirkland, I'd rather resolve this sooner.  If you feel there's a huge disconnect, then it's better to have that discussion *before* we move on, so that there's no chance if it being lost.
<cody-somerville> Well, I have 8 minutes of battery. :P
<cody-somerville> and Gerfried Fuchs is waiting patiently across the table from me.
<cody-somerville> and AndreaVeri is just renewal
<geser> Rhonda: find some power for cody-somerville if you want to see your application processed today :)
<maco> I must admit some ignorance to what this Ensemble thing is. I now kinda get what Orchestra is after negronjl's explanation...sounds like kickstart but maybe push instead of pull?  But I'm not really sure how these new Canonical products tie into Ubuntu itself and so don't know if this is more like being involved with Ubiquity or more like being involved with Launchpad. Does that make sense?
<Rhonda> geser: Unfortunately we are sitting in a bar at the street corner because the hotel network is â¦ well â¦ "fuzzy", and the hacklab is closed tonight because of a concert in the venue
<cody-somerville> maco, I think so. They're questions we should definitely be asking.
<kirkland> maco: those are excellent questions, and probably at the core of this;  we're working our butts off on Ensemble, Orchestra, CloudFoundry, and their countless dependencies, and failing to gain recognition for those contributions
<cody-somerville> maco, and since we never say no, just 'come back later', I don't feel horrible about deferring applications like negronjl's until we and the larger Ubuntu community figure that out.
<maco> I'm getting an impression that is more like #ubuntu-app-devel than like #ubuntu-devel
<kirkland> persia: I would rather discuss this at a different time than now, as I fear my judgment is clouded at the moment and the conversation may fail to reach its most productive
<bdrung> i feels a little like a native package
<cody-somerville> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 2 against. 4 abstained. Total: -2
<highvoltage> kirkland: fwiw I think the work you're doing is really cool though! It is indeed a pity that some of the people who act like rock stars get all the attention though :)
<persia> kirkland, That's fair.  Please don't let this slip: I'd really like to discuss it with you.
<kirkland> persia: when/where/how should this conversation continue?
<cody-somerville> kirkland, I think ubuntu-devel would be appropriate.
<cody-somerville> [topic] PerPackageUploader Applications  - Gerfried Fuchs
<MootBot> New Topic:  PerPackageUploader Applications  - Gerfried Fuchs
<maco> agreed
<kirkland> cody-somerville: thanks
<persia> kirkland, Easiest for me is to chat in IRC, probably in your afternoons or evenings.  A ML thread on devel-permissions might make sense if it's sufficiently generalied that we don't end up leaving records of too much specific criticism of individuals.
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GerfriedFuchs/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GerfriedFuchs/DeveloperApplication
<cody-somerville> I believe this application was already voted on by Laney.
<Rhonda> Yes, Laney voted on the list.
<cody-somerville> For public record, his vote was in the affirmative for this application.
<cody-somerville> Rhonda, Please introduce yourself and what you're applying for.
 * cody-somerville notes that he has zero minutes of battery left and may go offline at any moment. :)
<Rhonda> I am a Debian Developer since years, and a MOTU since last year.
<Rhonda> I've done sync requests for a fair amount of packages over time, mostly ones I am related to in my Debian area, but also for packages that other give me a query.
<Rhonda> I am applying for PPU for beep, logcheck and irssi because those are not covered by MOTU upload rights, they are in main, and I am involved in their development.
 * maco laughs at ScottK's testimonial
<Rhonda> Yes, I can be â¦ a bit shy at times, when it comes to these things. I don't like to pester people too hard to not get onto the nerves of others.
<cody-somerville> Rhonda, Are you sufficiently familiar with the main freeze policies?
<Rhonda> I understand that they happen earlier because they are wanted to be tested over a longer period of time.
<maco> Rhonda: sounds like the same reason none of my sponsors have ever sponsored > 1 package for me that i know of :P
<persia> We have main freeze policies?  Could someone point me to a reference?
<cody-somerville> Rhonda, Are you subscribed to the Ubuntu dev ml? ie. Are you notified when freezes are put into effect?
<Rhonda> Not yet, but I do regularly consult the ReleaseSchedule page in the wiki.
<geser> persia: I assume cody-somerville means the general freezes and also the main soft-freezes
<maco> "ask first"
<persia> I still don't believe we have soft-freezes for "main", but quite possibly.
<micahg> well, it's not just main, but anything on an image
<bdrung> soft-freezes for packages on the disk
<geser> micahg: right, I should learn that main == cd image is not true anymore or simplify it to "main"
<cody-somerville> I'm ready to vote.
<maco> i thought that was supposed to /become/ true with the reorg?
<maco> anyway, me too
<persia> maco, Yes, by making "universe" go away.  Still needs work.  Help appreciated.
 * persia has no questions for Rhonda related to beep, irssi, or logcheck
<maco> persia: archive reorg is a bit of a black box to me. no idea how to help. wouldn't mind an explanation in #u-d
<persia> maco, So, grab me about 10 minutes after the end of the meeting.
<bdrung> Rhonda: why didn't you apply for core-dev? ;)
<cody-somerville> [vote] PerPackageUploader Applications  - Gerfried Fuchs
<MootBot> Please vote on:  PerPackageUploader Applications  - Gerfried Fuchs.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cody-somerville> (my battery light is blinking now, so I think I'm really close to losing power)
<persia> +1 : log history of caring for all three packages in Ubuntu
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Rhonda> bdrung: I like to not put too much burden onto my shoulders before I am able to make some space for it. I would feel responsible for not doing more where I am already touching my boundries.
<persia> s/log/long/
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<cody-somerville> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<cody-somerville> Rhonda, Congratulations. Your application has been approved.
<Rhonda> Cheers. Want to use my laptop to continue? I have plenty of battery left  ;)
<maco> oh. there's an idea
<cody-somerville> haha, once mine dies, sure. Wanna see how long it'll go fo
<bdrung> i hope that and wont take long to process
<maco> did it died mid-word?
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] MOTU Applications - AndreaVeri (RENEWAL)
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Applications - AndreaVeri (RENEWAL)
<highvoltage> cody-somerville: have you run powertop and set all that 'bad' flags to 'good'? that usually extends my battery life significantly when it's running out
<bdrung> maco: why should it send the message if it dies while typing
<cody-somerville> highvoltage, yup but it started complaining this release about advanced debug flag being disabled
<cody-somerville> bdrung, I think it was a joke ;)
<cody-somerville> and`, are you here?
<and`> cody-somerville, hey, sure :)
<cody-somerville> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreaVeri
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreaVeri
<cody-somerville> and`, Please introduce yourself and your application.
<geser> and`: when you did you expire?
<and`> I become a MOTU in 2007 uploading around 200+ packages and sponsoring dozens. I founded the Ubuntu P2P team and worked to improve p2p-related packages for many months. I was part of the backporters team as well. Apart from that I am a DD, mostly working on GNOME packages and mozilla extensions packages.
<bdrung> geser: one year ago
<and`> geser, around an year ago
<cody-somerville> and`, Why did your membership expire?
<and`> cody-somerville, I left Ubuntu development for a while and moved to Fedora. I then decided to leave Fedora and get back to the origins. I didn't like some bits of Fedora, its community and its structure.
<and`> if I have to spend some of my free time contributing to an open source project, it must be one I really care of / use.
<and`> and Fedora wasn't the right place for me.
<persia> and`, In what areas do you expect to work in Ubuntu once you are again a developer?
 * cody-somerville is ready to vote (based on our current precedent of renewing expired membership liberally if nothing else).
<bdrung> i am ready to vote, but the questions are interesting. i want to hear the answers.
<and`> persia, I would love focusing on sponsoring and reviewing other people's work and packages together with GNOME packages and if I'll be able to revive the p2p team, anything else related to that.
<and`> but I plan to spend some time on REVU, on the sponsorship queue, on mentoring.
<maco> cody-somerville: as i joked to bdrung:   "have you turned into a saboteur? no? ok!"
<persia> and`, Have you been following the changes in the way we sponsor stuff?
 * cody-somerville grins.
 * cody-somerville thinks persia has good questions (as usual).
 * maco isn't sure *which* changes persia means...
<bdrung> and`: do you think that REVU is the best place for new packages?
<and`> persia, I saw many things changed on that side (i.e the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team is no more there), yes, but I plan to review all the new guidelines and procedures on the wiki asap.
<bdrung> and`: heard of patch pilots?
<persia> maco, When you look in the mirror every day, you see few changes.  If you take a picture, and wait a year, you'll see more.
 * persia idly notes that being a patch pilot is not required to sponsor, but the work of patch pilots is much appreciated.
<and`> bdrung, I alwais thought REVU was a very nice software for new packages, I definitely prefer it to Debian mentor's. You can comment on stuff, you can get more opinions on a specific package and most of all you need two acks for a package to be uploaded
<bdrung> persia: patch pilots changed a lot in sponsoring
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] MOTU Applications  - AndreaVeri (RENEWAL)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  MOTU Applications  - AndreaVeri (RENEWAL).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<bdrung> and`: but wouldn't it be better to get new packages to debian first?
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<maco> bdrung: i feel like they just made it possible for sponsors to go "oh  yay! someone knocked off 1/4 of the queue!"
<and`> bdrung, definitely yes :)
<maco> what id see as a bigger change in sponsoring is the addition of UDD merge proposal sponsory stuff
<and`> bdrung, straight sync is usually the right way of doing things :)
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<bdrung> maco: i am waiting that you mention sponsor-patch! ;)
<cody-somerville> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<maco> bdrung: i keep forgetting that exists
<maco> im still doing it the manual way :P
<cody-somerville> and`, Welcome back!
<and`> thanks guys :) I have one fast questions: is the backporters team still up and running?
<bdrung> ... and welcome back! ;)
<cody-somerville> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:37.
<bdrung> and`: yes, but it needs more man power!
<Rhonda> and`: Yes, and looking for people to join, from what I understood
<cody-somerville> Thanks everyone!
<Rhonda> If you could join and through that speed up my backports offers, that would be great :)
<maco> Rhonda: can't you join too?
<and`> awesome, I'll get in touch with John Dong for joining back :)
<Rhonda> â¦ which brings me back to irssi, there is a backport pending. Or â¦ wait, no, that was done already. But an update. :)
<persia> Rhonda, So, the invitation to join also extends to people with vast history of backporting :p
<Rhonda> maco: See what I formerly responded to bdrung about core-dev application. :)
<geser> cody-somerville, Rhonda: have fun in the bar celebrating Rhonda's PPU rights
<persia> But the speed of processing backports is mostly limited by backports-testers, not backports-developers (although people in both categories are to be especially thanked)
<cody-somerville> geser, Good idea! Rhonda: buy me a round of drinks! :P
<maco> Rhonda: but if you're doing the backports already and then just waiting for backport *sponsors*...
<bdrung> cody-somerville: that's not allowed, because it's corruption. :p
<maco> cody-somerville: seems your battery lies to you
<bdrung> maco: my laptop battery lies in the wrong direction.
<cody-somerville> maco, I like to think of my battery as like the train who could ;)
<Rhonda> maco: Weelll...  I would potentially not ACK my own backports requests. We also don't do that in Debian neither.
<cody-somerville> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Engine_That_Could
<micahg> and`: ScottK would be the person to talk to for Ubuntu Backports
<and`> micahg, thank you, will get in touch with him :)
<Rhonda> persia: I'm ignoring you intentionally :P
<Rhonda> No, I really need to sort out some things first before extending my responsibilities. I somehow naturally feel too responsible in areas that I enrolled to, and I want to get some of the "older" areas into better shape to feel comfortable to extend to new ones.
<Laney> Rhonda: congrats :-)
<Laney> and apologies to the rest of you. My girlfriend got back from some time away today so I was with her.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-19
<sabdfl> hi folks, sorry i'm late
<dholbach> oops, I didn't pay attention either, let me ping the rest of the gang
<sabdfl> dholbach, agenda is empty
<dholbach> mako, technoviking, popey, persia, pleia2: around for CC meeting?
<dholbach> one thing I just want to check quickly is how we're doing with the restaffing of various teams
<dholbach> I know that a lot of CC members still need to vote for the Americas Board restaffing
<dholbach> pleia2 sent a mail about this a while ago
<dholbach> and I think the Asia/Oceania board is still looking for nominees
<dholbach> the next ones are
<dholbach>  - 2011-09-01	Technical Board
<dholbach>  - 2011-10-07	Community Council
<dholbach> until we luckily still have some time
<dholbach> that's all I wanted to bring up
<dholbach> sabdfl, do you have anything you'd like to discuss?
<dholbach> I'm happy to dig the participants of the Asia/Oceania thread again to see where things stand
<dholbach> (and urge everybody else to have a look in their inbox and reply to Liz' email about the Americas Board)
<popey> oh hai
<sabdfl> hey popey
<coalwater> hi all :D mind if i join ? i probably wont be any useful but ill just see what's going on
<popey> Afternoon.
<dholbach> coalwater, sure, all the meetings in here are public
<dholbach> Is there anything else we need to discuss?
<sabdfl> dholbach, i didn't have anything else
<sabdfl> popey, dholbach, i think we can wrap?
 * popey voted
<popey> I have nothing else.
<dholbach> yes, I think we can - I'll reply to the Asia/Oceania restaffing thread right now
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone
<popey> I like quick meetings. Especially at lunchtime!
<sabdfl> cheerio
<smb> \o
<NCommander> \o
<cking> \O
<Daviey> o/
<jamespage> o/
<Daviey> <-- OTP
<m_3> o/
<cking> oops, wrong meeting, sorry
<Daviey> (NCommander has requested to go early in the meeting Agenda.)
<Daviey> SpamapS: ping?
<SpamapS> Daviey: pong
<Ursinha> o/
<SpamapS> is it my turn?
<Daviey> SpamapS: i believe so
<SpamapS> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is SpamapS.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<SpamapS> indeed it is
<SpamapS> Welcome!
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<SpamapS> sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued)
<SpamapS> neither are here, so we will defer
<SpamapS> [ACTION] sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued x 2)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued x 2)
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Development
<SpamapS> git 'r dun
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> Full cycle tracking: - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<Daviey> We seem to be pretty much on target, with:
<Daviey> server-boot-experience - slightly flagging.  However, this is expected to be brought up to state this week.
<Daviey> server-o-jenkins - is making good progress but limited by Ubuntu AA review / Debian sponsoring, as i understand it.
<Daviey> server-o-postfix-enhancements - Seems to be unstarted, this should probably make progress soon - or consider dropping (ScottK?).
<Daviey> server-o-trusted-cloud - Is this the same status? (hallyn?)
<Daviey> Bugs currently being tracked for Oneiric Release: - http://people.ubuntu.com/~davewalker/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> (For the TL;DR'ers, we are doing OK.  However, please try to keep the bug status of those as updated as possible).
<Daviey> If there is a bug you are aware of, or currently working on that isn't on that list - please can you raise it here, or with me afterwards.  Thanks.
<Daviey> Sync's/Merges: - http://people.ubuntu.com/~davewalker/server-sid-new.html (We are doing ok!)
<serue_> Daviey: trusted cloud shoudl be dropped
<Daviey> Ursula will be commenting on incomming bug process in AoB i believe.
<Daviey> Thanks!
<Daviey> EOM.
<Ursinha> yes sir
<Daviey> serue_: thanks.
<SpamapS> Alright, shall we then?
<Daviey> pls
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<SpamapS> o/
<SpamapS> I'll be speaking at OSCON 2011 http://www.oscon.com/oscon2011/public/schedule/detail/18367
<SpamapS> July 28
<SpamapS> in Portland
<SpamapS> Any others?
<SpamapS> Alright then
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<SpamapS> hggdh: you're up
<hggdh> k
<hggdh> we are releasing 10.04.3 this week; help on the testing is welcomed
<hggdh> also, a new milestone on Oneiric is approaching...
<hggdh> apart from that, life is good
<hggdh> ..
 * SpamapS is installing a 10.04.3 RAID1 vm right now.. :)
 * smb is reminded to go for two more installs ...
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> hi there
<smb> So there seems to be acceptance to take back the changes in xen xvd naming
<smb> Though it seems to target 3.1
<smb> Which means I will have to pull back that as soon as I think there are no other objections
<smb> Apart from that I am trying to get xen hvm running in oneiric. Currently being in contact with citrix on that
<smb> But zul probably has some other info too
<smb> ..
<SpamapS> zul is out this week.. do we need any actions for follow up next week?
<smb> No, either I'll contact him next week or I get something from Stefano
<SpamapS> ok
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<SpamapS> NCommander: ^
<NCommander> Hey all
<NCommander> ARM Server is currently working towards our first image bringup, with the work on preinstall pool being completed and in the process of deployment
<NCommander> in addition, PXE'able images are now available for OMAP3/4, which also works to remove a blocker for ensemble deployment on ARM
<SpamapS> NCommander: ogra_ had proposed an optional upstart job that would add a serial console.. is that still needed?
<NCommander> As we close in on A3, a lot of effort is going into heavily QAing stuff on ARM, and in general, simply pipecleaning all our mechanisms
<NCommander> SpamapS: I think it got implemented post-Dublin (ogra is on vacation so I can't immediatley confirm)
<SpamapS> NCommander: ok just checking.
<SpamapS> Anything else?
<NCommander> Nope, that's it
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<SpamapS> speak now or forever hold your peace. :)
<m_3> term
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<SpamapS> Ursinha: nice job on the report!
<SpamapS> Ursinha: I love the ubuntu-server-bot idea. :)
<Ursinha> cool!
<Ursinha> so, we're working on changing the bug triage process and add speed to it
<Daviey> \o/
<Ursinha> the main proposed change is, in a first moment, to set the importance of the bug, even if we don't have a status to set
<Ursinha> this will help us prioritizing what to investigate next.
<Ursinha> the report SpamapS mentioned is: http://people.canonical.com/~ursula/triage-report.html
<Ursinha> we hope to be able to find and kill duplicates easily, as well
<Ursinha> clean the mess so we can be awesome
<Ursinha> The changes in the process are described in: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<SpamapS> [ACTION] All: review new triage process at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<MootBot> ACTION received:  All: review new triage process at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<utlemming> Ursinha: how often will the report be updated?
<Daviey> Great Stuff!  Thanks Ursinha
<Ursinha> stats information to be added in that report soon! we'll be able to tell how many bugs are we triaging daily and weekly, and how new bugs are being handled
<Ursinha> utlemming: every ten minutes
<utlemming> very cool
<Ursinha> enjoy! :)
<Ursinha> ..
<SpamapS> Alright, anything else?
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<SpamapS> Tuesday 2011-07-26 at 1600 UTC here in #ubuntu-meeting
<SpamapS> thanks everyone!
<SpamapS> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:30.
<Ursinha> thanks SpamapS and guys
<m_3> thanks... sorry for the unitylockup-inspired Tourette's in the middle of the meeting
<Ursinha> m_3: lol
<Ursinha> :)
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * smb still here
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Kernel development: nothing to report.
<ppisati> Oneiric/ti-omap4: got a new BSP drop from agreen, rebased on top of rc7 and rolled out a new kernel. People in the arm team are testing it and so far (besides an audio bug that looks like a pulseaudio issue) it looks good. A kernel package is available here: http://people.canonical.com/~ppisati/ti-omap4-next/ while the source code is available on ppisati@zinc:oneiric-git/ti-omap4-next.
<ppisati> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> === Release Metrics ===
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kt-meeting.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 28 linux kernel bugs (up 8)
<ogasawara> ==== Ubuntu oneiric-alpha-3 bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== natty-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 23 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara> ==== maverick-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 3 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== lucid-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 7 linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara> ==== hardy-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Incoming Bugs ===
<ogasawara>  * 62 oneiric bugs (up 13)
<ogasawara>  * 1420 natty bugs (up 34)
<ogasawara>  * 1103 maverick bugs (down 13)
<ogasawara>  * 968 lucid bugs (down 45)
<ogasawara>  * 33 hardy bugs (down 2)
<ogasawara> === Regressions ===
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 6 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 43 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 82 lucid bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 444 natty bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 242 maverick bugs (down 3)
<ogasawara>  * 217 lucid bugs (down 4)
<ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 2 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 2 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
<ogasawara> apw, lag, ralveti: you have work items to review your set of Ubuntu patches.  I've pushed these out to Alpha-3 for you.  Please take a moment to review when you have a chance. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/KernelOneiricUbuntuDeltaReview for your specific set of patches.  Note, these are the only remaining work items for this blueprint.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
<smb> No change here. As the remains items are pretty much depending on outcome of something else and either fall off completely or get pushed out as we go, I am not sure it really needs to be on the agenda anymore. Would people mind dropping it?
<smb> ..
<apw> if there is nothing to report, drop it ..
<ogasawara> +1 drop it
<jjohansen> +1
<smb> ok, will make sure it gets off
<smb> ..
<bjf> will be done
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Nothing very exciting this past week.  I plan to do an upload today or tomorrow to get patches on master-next released.  Alpha-3 is Thurs Aug 4th.  I intend to upload our final Alpha-3 kernel next Friday July 29th.  If there are any patches that need to land for Alpha-3, get them sent to the kt-ml asap.
<smb> bjf, even better thanks
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> === CVE Metrics ===
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~apw/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~apw/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw> We have made good progress recently with most branches only having a single CVE open; CVE-2011-1020 for which the fixes were just identified.
<apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
<apw> || Package                                  || Open ||
<apw> ||                                          ||      ||
<apw> || linux Hardy                              ||    5 ||
<apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    1 ||
<apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    1 ||
<apw> || linux Natty                              ||    1 ||
<apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    1 ||
<apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    1 ||
<apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    4 ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    1 ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    1 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    1 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    1 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    1 ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    1 ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    1 ||
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||== Status of kernels ==
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Several regressions have been reported in Natty after release last week,
<sconklin> || None of these were detected in QA, Certification, or -proposed testing.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/810400|Disks not recognized after upgrading to 2.6.38-10]]
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/811240|Update to kernel 2.6.38-10 causes hang on startup]]
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/809878|Wireless network & graphics card stop working after upgrade to 2.6.38-10]]
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 810400 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "Disks not recognized after upgrading to 2.6.38-10 " [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 811240 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "Update to kernel 2.6.38-10 causes hang on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 809878 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "Wireless network & graphics card stop working after upgrade to 2.6.38-10" [Undecided,New]
<sconklin> || This is kernel prep week, getting set up to begin a verification cycle next week.
<sconklin> || Several kernels have already been built and are in -proposed
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || * [[http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html|Detailed Information Here]]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Hardy ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/812360|Hardy Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * A new kernel is in -proposed. Since this kernel contains only CVE fixes, there is no verification to be done, and it is ready for QA
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 812360 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.24-29.92 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> ||=== Lucid ===
<sconklin> || * Previous kernel has been released, but a new one has not been prepared yet
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Maverick ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/808934|Maverick Tracking Bug]]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 808934 in Kernel SRU Workflow security-signoff "linux: 2.6.35-30.56 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<sconklin> || * Kernel in -proposed from the last cycle is awaiting certification and regression testing.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Natty ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/811180|Natty Tracking Bug]]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 811180 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.38-11.47 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> || * Previous kernel has been released, and a new one is in -proposed.
<sconklin> || * Verification has begun for this kernel, and will continue through next week.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Current Kernel versions are always available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || hardy    linux                             || 2.6.24-29.91         || 2.6.24-29.92         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.30.38         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-30.56~lucid1  ||   22 ||       22 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.7               || 1.34.10              ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-firmware                    || 1.38.6               || 1.38.8               ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-30.54         || 2.6.35-30.56         ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || natty    linux-meta-ti-omap4               ||                      || 2.6.38.1209.7        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.38    || 2.6.38-10.6          || 2.6.38-11.7          ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    ||                      || 1.52.1               ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.38-10.46         || 2.6.38-11.47         ||   18 ||        5 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ti-omap4                    ||                      || 2.6.38-1209.13       ||   10 ||       10 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.38.10.25         || 2.6.38.11.26         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:09.
<apw> thanks bjf
<sconklin> thanks
<smb> thanks
 * smb wanders off
<cking> nice one
<Dazed_75> I thought there was a re-approval meeting scheduled for the upcoming hour.  But we got an email that the deadline had passed.  Does anyone know what happened?
<Dazed_75> for the Arizona LoCo BTW
<czajkowski> Dazed_75: the meeting is on in 2 mins
<czajkowski> but we received no application for the team
<czajkowski> did you update the bug with the application before today ???
<Dazed_75> Hmmm, the team leader sent me an email saying we had been unnapproved because the deadline had passed so he would talk to me tonight.  Let me try calling him
<czajkowski> well you've been given 9 months to get the application in
<czajkowski> it was due in last cycle
<czajkowski> and we gave a further 3 months to get it in
<Dazed_75> phone
<Dazed_75> he does not answer.  The team leaders basically disappeared.  Todd Cole took over and has been working to get thing organized for this re-approval meeting which is now
<czajkowski> well it wasn;t added to the agenda
<czajkowski> and we have no application
<czajkowski> so perhaps for the next meeting
<czajkowski> or add the information to the bug you were added to for re approval
<Dazed_75> This is who Todd was workign with: > From: paultag@ubuntu.com
<huats> Dazed_75, the thing that bother me
<huats> is that there is no answer regarding the application but we have received an application for free banners for loco teams
<Dazed_75> actually, we received the banners a couple days ago and it was a surprise neither Todd or I knew about
<czajkowski> Dazed_75: see that's kinda unfair
<czajkowski> you were given 9 months to get reapproved
<huats> Dazed_75, you received the banners?
<Dazed_75> this is the bug we were on: Subject: [Bug 766541] Re: Re-approval, ubuntu-arizona
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 766541 in Ubuntu LoCo Teams "Re-approval, ubuntu-arizona" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/766541
<czajkowski> so up until then we gave it in good faith you would give us the application
<Dazed_75> the people in charge 9 months ago basically disappeared.  We had a very hard time communicating anything to/from them
<czajkowski> Dazed_75: all I can say is this.
<czajkowski> please submit in your application as soon as ye can
<czajkowski> but until then ye will remain unapproved
<Dazed_75> I think Todd thought that was to be done in this meeting.  Has been very hard to find info on the process (Todd told me, as I just jjoined this past week)
<Dazed_75> though I have been involved in events for years
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval
<czajkowski> there are wiki pages dedicated to this
<czajkowski> there are 6 people on the council to come and ask for help
<Dazed_75> Like I said, I just joined and was made co -leader but have no experience with this process.  I know Todd had been working on that wiki approval page but do not know if he knew he had to submit it via a process.  Thanks foor the info
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> perhaps mail us afterwards ok
<itnet7> Dazed_75: As czajkowski has said, put yourself on the agenda for next month. If you need any help reach out to us
<itnet7> we'll give you a hand
<Dazed_75> Alright.  Thanks itnet7
<itnet7> Or I'll give you one
<Dazed_75> If no one minds I will capture this log and send it to Todd
<popey> o/
<popey> sorry, dodgy connection
<Dazed_75> huats: Todd tells me we got a box with some bbanners
<itnet7> No problem Dazed_75 !
<huats> Dazed_75, I'll send an email to Todd then to ask him who he asked to get it then
<Dazed_75> I don't think he asked for them, so that will be an interesting answer
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> huats: popey itnet7 anything we need to discuss as it's just the 4 of us ?
<huats> Dazed_75, well he emailed me at least about it
<huats> czajkowski, nope
<huats> :)
<czajkowski> well we have no agenda
<popey> quiet one
<czajkowski> and no teams
<czajkowski> so unless we need to talk about stuff ??
<czajkowski> if that's a no then we can leave it
<czajkowski> ok well Good night so
<huats> good night too
<paultag> Hey, sorry I'm late
<huats> paultag, don't worry it is over
<paultag> oh joy. Righto
<zakame> ping
<Knightlust> czajkowski: er... so there won't be any meeting  in a few minute
<Knightlust> s/minute/minutes/
<czajkowski> Knightlust: meeting started 43 mins ago and ran for 20 mins as we had no agenda
<Knightlust> arrggh, timezone
<arscariosus> whoa
<zakame> hm I was under the impression the meet happens 3rd Tuesday of every month at 21:00 UTC, per LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<cody-somerville> 'The LoCo Council meets on the 3rd Tuesday of every month at 21:00 UTC. The next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday 19th July 2011, 20:00 UTC'
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-20
<cjwatson> evenin' all
 * barry waves
 * stgraber waves
<bdmurray> hi
<jhunt_> o/
<ev> hiya
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> so, we're at least two down today, after Surbhi's departure and with Steve being on holiday
<mvo> hi
<cjwatson> doko_: around?
 * cjwatson has not been keeping up with the holiday calendar
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
<cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jhunt mvo ev bdmurray)
<cjwatson> barry stgraber mvo bdmurray jhunt ev cjwatson doko
<ev> phew
<barry> bug 212370 (coretemp - needs followup), bug 811193 (psycopg2 sync request), bug 788514 (python-debian, python-dateutil, chardet, pycairo - revisit, python-brlapi, inotifyx), bug 788525 (review py 2.6.6/2.6.7 changes for sru), bug 806574 (cj crash in reorder() - no pygi equivalent so needs reimp), bug 810192 (pysqlite sync request), post-crash sysadmin (libvirt and vm restores/reinstalls), blog post about ecryptfs/u1/encfs, reviewed
<barry> packaging guide mps, release flufl.bounce (for launchpad), filed sbuild bugs, ppa:pythoneers/lts work, python issue 10309 (dlmalloc.c implicit cast breaking buildds). done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 212370 in linux (Ubuntu) "Have to modprobe coretemp manually in order to get CPU temperatures on MacBook Pro" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212370
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 811193 in psycopg2 (Ubuntu) "Sync psycopg2 2.4.2-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811193
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788514 in Ubuntu Oneiric "python packages on the CDs not using dh_python2" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788514
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788525 in python2.6 (Ubuntu) "updating to python2.6.7 in lucid and updating" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788525
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806574 in computer-janitor (Ubuntu Oneiric) "computer-janitor-gtk crashed with AttributeError in reorder(): 'ListStore' object has no attribute 'reorder'" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806574
<stgraber> - Was on holiday last week
<stgraber> - Fixed an annoying tzsetup bug (bug 771361)
<stgraber> - Worked a bit on fixing LTSP not booting because of nbd (bug 806419)
<stgraber> - Spent most of yesterday becoming way too familiar with TPM, nss and pkcs. Still fighting with opencryptoki.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771361 in tzsetup (Ubuntu) "When IP isn't in maxmind's database, None gets selected as a locale" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771361
<stgraber> - Started playing with LP daily builds for LTSP
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806419 in ltsp (Ubuntu Oneiric) "nbd-server doesn't work on Oneiric" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806419
<stgraber> - Still working on arkose's dbus proxy. Will probably do yet another complete rewrite today, fighting with glib/dbus/threading :)
<stgraber> - Will do some IPv6 testing now that cyphermox got a new Network manager patch
<stgraber> (done)
<cyphermox> (just uploaded this to my ppa)
<mvo> did:
<mvo> software-center: work on exhibits UI/backend, add ratings_spread graph, branch merges, work on GObject/GLib/Gio introspection update
<mvo> update-manager: move to dh7, add btrfs snapshot to the size caclculation, add query-string for the release notes (like ubiquity), move auto-upgrade-tester to a new home and add some tweaks
<mvo> unattended-upgrades: add progress reporting and display if still running on shutdown
<mvo> apt-btrfs-snapshot: use argparse, add i18n, add basic help and debug, add cleanup cronjob for old snapshots
<mvo> friendly-recovery: add revert-to-snapshot menu
<mvo> debdelta: add natty->natty-security deltas
<mvo> software-properties: fixes in the dbus/polkit backend, port gtk UI to the new dbus/polkit backend (quite a bit of work)
<mvo> apt: make apt-get upgrade hold back packages with new recommends (that would introduce new policy-broken packages), merges from debian-sid/experimental
<mvo> debdelta: push my changes to lp:~mvo/debdelta/mvo and import upstream branch into LP
<mvo> EOF
<bdmurray> kerneloops upload enabling kerneloops but not reporting Oopses with WARNING in them (bug 346303), apport modifications to tag kerneloops reports based  off the driver the oops occurred in, tagging of apport-kerneloops bug reports using kernel-driver- and the driver name
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346303 in kerneloops (Ubuntu Lucid) "do not generate apport reports for non-critical kernel messages" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346303
<bdmurray> bzr branch modifying plymouth apport hook and fixing bug 787685, apport update (data/general-hooks/ubuntu.py) to file more bugs about grub/grub2 rather than linux or memtest86+, rewrite how the ubuntu general hook in apport deals with DpkgTerminalLog and expand it to check VarLogDistupgradeApttermlog,  base-files upload resolving dealing with lsb_release (bug 744253 and bug 575885)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 787685 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Please include grub.cfg in apport hook" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/787685
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 744253 in Ubuntu Website "documentation deep-links in motd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/744253
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575885 in base-files (Ubuntu) "Missing dependency on lsb-release" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575885
<bdmurray> apport-package bug cleanup for acpid, casper, memtest86+, dpkg and eglibc, out of memory package installation failure bug triage, bug triage of         memtest86+ bug reports, bug pattern writing for acpi and jockey bug reports
<bdmurray> update of launchpad database queries to not display private bug reports anymore, wrote launchpadlib script to searchTasks for package in ubuntu-        foundations-bugs.getBugSubscriberPackages to find tasks and filter by importance, status or tags and added it to arsenal
<bdmurray> done
<jhunt_> on Upstart feature to disable jobs. Debugging bug 807293 with
<jhunt_> digression into /proc/self/fd behaviour on various kernels and
<jhunt_> releases. Started work on an "upstart-utils" package (to contain the
<jhunt_> add-on utilities out of the main upstart package). Found a couple of
<jhunt_> dbus bugs (bug 812940 and 912913). Raised MP for bug 810956
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807293 in upstart "user jobs cause kernel panic" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807293
<jhunt_> (required upstream Upstart changes to work around bug 812940).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 812940 in dbus (Ubuntu) "dbus behaviour change from natty to oneiric: now enables X11 autolaunch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/812940
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 912913 could not be found
<jhunt_> Hopefully no more dbus problems relating to upstarts tests.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 810956 in upstart (Ubuntu) "/dev/.initramfs/ â /run/initramfs transition" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810956
<jhunt_> â
<cjwatson> Spent most of the week shepherding Ubuntu 10.04.3, with a last-minute oem-config fix and a couple of other bits and pieces.
<cjwatson> Database side of multiarch-translations patch for Launchpad landed.  The rest is approved and we should be able to land it shortly after apt/python-apt hit lucid-updates.
<jhunt_> dang - copy/paste error! Line *one* of my report is:
<cjwatson> Trying to add non-forking "generator" function support to libpipeline.  I think this is the main piece of hard work required to speed up the man-db trigger, which is a hotspot in Ubuntu upgrades (it turns out that forking 80000 processes is a bit slow, who'd'a thunk it).  Defining the API for this in C is proving quite difficult, seeing as coroutines aren't exactly a core language feature - I expect I'll spend a bit of ...
<jhunt_> "Spent some time with Surbhi on the Upstart initramfs changes. Worked"
<cjwatson> ... time on it at DebConf.
<cjwatson> Realised this morning that my spam filter had gone insane and misfiled a bunch of real mail as spam.  I think I've recovered the bulk of it, but if you're waiting for a mail reply from me then resending would be welcome.
<cjwatson> Starting back in on the GRUB menu enhancements required to use it on the CD.  Finding it very difficult to make progress, although I do at least know the first piece; this will be a DebConf project.
<cjwatson> Submitted another Launchpad patch to add Ubuntu Studio task fields (bug 562706).  This should land today.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 562706 in Launchpad itself "On i386, selecting the ubuntu studio packages fails to install" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562706
<cjwatson> Travelling to DebConf on Friday; then DebCamp/DebConf for a week; then holiday for a week.
<cjwatson> --
<cjwatson> ev: err, very sorry, I jumped the queue
 * jhunt_ contemplates off-by-one bugs.
<bdmurray> cjwatson: is the tasksel task still necessary for 562706?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: I just marked it invalid :-)
<doko_> cjwatson: yes, can't see xchat blinking on my just upgraded laptop (oneiric)
<ev> apols, was quickly talking to John Lea about indexing your entire home folder on upgrade (yay)
<ev> - Wireless networking page work.  Pretty much sorted and functional now, with
<ev>   tests and all.  Just need to hook into an installer page.
<ev> - Lucid chroots and builds of Wubi.
<ev> - Helping two MacBook Air users in the office get up and running. There
<ev>   appears to be a bug in the free driver that results in colorful TV snow when
<ev>   KMS is enabled. Installing the binary driver fixes it. Can we please include
<ev>   that on the CD? It's enabled when the 3rd party software box is checked and
<ev>   Internet is available, and I'm confident that the wireless page will land
<ev>   this or next week, but still, it's going to bite people.
<ev> - LZMA vs xz shootout: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1oVHavsFMdCuqeco1vKI_r82dTCMrDj8HPtIaqBqvTO8/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=COO95YEE
<ev>   - tl;dr xz wins, obviously. The extreme compression offers us nothing.
<ev> - live-build and cdimage support for wubi xz archive.
<ev> - Wubi cron job for publishing on cdimage.  Wubi disk image daily builds are
<ev>   pretty much ready to go.
<ev> - Met with the web team for a couple of hours to discuss the developer portal.
<ev> - Lots more ubiquity PyGI work.  Very nearly there.  Just need to fix up one
<ev>   last unicode issue, figure out why some signals are not firing, and write GI
<ev>   bindings for indicator-datetime or gnome-control-center (eep!) so we can
<ev>   have a working timezone map again.
<ev> TODO:
<ev> - Plumbers flight.  EEP.
<ev> - Wubi disk image integration.
<ev> - Lots of other workitems. eep again.
<ev> (done)
<doko_> - ARM panda board installation
<doko_> - ARM ac100 installation borked again :-/
<doko_> - make ARM multiarch aware (armel/armhf), currently just gcc-4.6 and eglibc
<doko_> - dive into multiarch changes for GCC again, found at least two issues when doin
<doko_> g the ARM work
<doko_> - Linaro GCC 4.5 and 4.6 merges and tests
<doko_> - not much else besides ARM work :-(
<doko_> will be traveling the next two weeks (DebConf, and the Linaro sprint)
<doko_> (done)
<cjwatson> ev: indexing> *cough* I do hope I can turn that off, it would take forever
<ev> cjwatson: I did my best to warn about that
<ev> and that we've never been particularly great at writing IO schedulers
<cjwatson> (though better now that I have SSD, but I remember having to kill stupid indexers with fire in the past)
<ev> so perhaps it's time that we say you can't use your computer during upgrades, because if it's doing a full upgrade PLUS an index of the universe, well, you really can't use your computer
<ev> mvo: John Lea will be in touch :-P
<cjwatson> deferring the index update would be a better plan
<cjwatson> include binary driver> no, we can't, we've had legal threats about that in the past
<cjwatson> (I'm pretty sure)
<ev> cjwatson: Broadcom lets us but Nvidia doesn't?
<mvo> ev: heh
<ev> You'd figure Nvidia would want us to use their driver.
<cjwatson> no, that's not the problem
<mvo> ev: so the home dir needs indexing? so we need to run it as a user task instead of root?
<ev> mvo: yup, presumably for every user
<ev> mvo: it's all about building an index for zeitgeist
<cjwatson> if we ship the binary graphics drivers, we end up shipping the combination earlier, iirc, and *kernel developers* say we're violating their licence
<ev> because they are of the belief that zeitgeist can pretty much handle every application we care about now
<cjwatson> so we have an uneasy compromise
<ev> ah, bloody Greg
<cjwatson> also, don't the nvidia packages dpkg-divert libGL?
<ev> cjwatson: probably, why is that an issue?
<cjwatson> because it doesn't work on other cards when you do ...
<ev> ah yes, portability of installation
<cjwatson> portability of the live CD
<ev> well, it's not installing it in the livefs
<ev> it's running jockey -C from ubiquity
<cjwatson> why don't you get colourful TV snow in the live session then?
<ev> cjwatson: you do
<ev> sorry if that wasn't clear
<cjwatson> hm
<cjwatson> installing it on the fly might be a bit different, I'm not sure
<ev> cjwatson: is this a question for Amanda or the kernel team?
<cjwatson> seriously though, why can't we fix the free driver
<cjwatson> not sure
<ev> because we're always fixing the free driver
<mvo> ev: that is going to be interessting as there are some pratical problems for the "run for every user" case, .e.g nfs or other installs
<ev> and then new hardware comes out
<ev> and our users are left with a bad experience
<cjwatson> it's getting closer and closer as time goes ono
<cjwatson> just giving up is bad
<cjwatson> I mean, we could just ship a non-free OS, but that's not what we're about?
<ev> I do not foresee a point whereby we can honestly keep up with an entire company dedicated to building a driver for their own hardware
<cjwatson> we might as well all give up then, how can we keep up with Microsoft
<ev> I think that's a strawman
<ev> we can and should ship free bits
<ev> for the things that we can reasonably manage
<cjwatson> we're constantly under pressure not to
<ev> but I don't think the open source community has come up with enough people hacking away on the free nvidia driver to keep up with the hardware out there
<ev> just like we should ship flash
<cjwatson> I thought it was part of our ethos that we pushed back
<ev> because gnash will never ever keep up with that
<ev> we should ship the nvidia binary driver in whatever way we can
<ev> we should push back, but not at the expense of our users
<cjwatson> our users will never get anything free if we don't even try
<ev> we can push back in other ways, through hardware deals and all that jazz
<cjwatson> workarounds are one thing, but we need to fix the free driver on this hardware *as well*
<ev> I also don't think there's an advantage to a free driver with lots of bugs that we can fix vs a non-free driver with a smaller amount of bugs that we can't
<ev> absolutely
<cjwatson> and if we don't ship it by default, we never ever ever will
<cjwatson> jockey -C will just shove the non-free driver in and nobody will ever even try the free driver
<ev> but if the free driver doesn't stand a chance of keeping up, should we really fight that battle
<ev> or push free software where we can keep up or create an advantage
<cjwatson> I thought we wanted our kernel bug reports to be looked at by upstream ...
<ev> but we have this problem in more than just the graphics driver
<ev> wireless as well
<cjwatson> we do, and it's a problem, but at least with wireless it's possible to present a choice to users where they can actually see it
<cjwatson> anyway, maybe you and I having an argument about this isn't the best use of the rest of the team's time :)
<ev> sure :)
<barry> it's an interesting philosophical debate, but probably better carried on elsewhere :)
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Oneiric bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric bugs
<cjwatson> bdmurray: do you have anything for us this week?
<cjwatson> (or anyone else)
<bdmurray> cjwatson: no, not this week
<doko_> what are 5000 bugs in percent of the open bugs?
<cjwatson> apropos of the mumble conversation, it would be good if somebody could look into bug 805886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 805886 in util-linux (Ubuntu) "/proc does not get umounted after debootstrap" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805886
<bdmurray> doko_: about 18%
<doko_> *cough*
<cjwatson> are you about to initiate a bug event of some kind? ;-)
<doko_> so better avoid filing these in the first place
<bdmurray> cjwatson: I sent an email about tagging some 5000 bugs dist-upgrade to ubuntu-dev
 * micahg thought Ubuntu had ~100k open bugs
<bdmurray> micahg: I've been busy fixing that
<micahg> :)
<bdmurray> well and the expiration probably helps
<cjwatson> how many of those 5000 are main?  (not that that necessarily helps our users with universe bits installed, but ...)
<doko_> one thing I did notice is that the upgrade bugs should not be filed if the bug title doesn't show up in any of the logs
<bdmurray> cjwatson: I just queried for ubuntu bug tasks with the attachment name 'VarLogDistupgrade...'
<bdmurray> doko_: do you have an example?
<doko_> bdmurray: I'll subscribe you to the next one I see
<bdmurray> doko_: okay thanks
<cjwatson> OK then
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<doko_> maybe an update to the ftbfs reports (nearly all of them in universe), still 700 open, down from 900 two weeks ago.
<doko_> I'll have to find time to start the archive rebuild to update these. maybe while at debconf or the linaro sprint
<cjwatson> oh, look at that, field.tag=ftbfs doesn't cause LP to time out any more
<ev> I met up with Scott for lunch. He's doing well, enjoying SF and Google.
<barry> ev: nice
<cjwatson> cool, he's holidaying in the UK this week?
<mvo> cool
<doko_> it never timed out, only if you search for two or more tags
<barry> is everybody but me going to debconf? ;)
<cjwatson> doko_: it did for me
<cjwatson> barry: yes, HTH ;-)
<bdmurray> barry: not me
<ev> apparently their teams eat dinner together, so no one ever pays for a meal at google
<ev> cjwatson: indeed, last week into this one
<ev> I think he leaves on Friday
<barry> :)
<cjwatson> ev: matches my assessment last time I was there - sounds lovely if you're single :)
<ev> cjwatson: exactly
<ev> welcome to Google, you will live here.
<doko_> although the london office only has one cafeteria
<barry> resistance is futile
<ev> geez, third world country there
<doko_> when is the next summit in mountain view?
<cjwatson> we're probably overdue, extrapolating from history ...
<ev> heh
<cjwatson> last one was Nov 2008 IIRC
<ev> assuming someone doesn't get us kicked out for taking photos of all the cubicles again
<jhunt_> I'm supposed to be there on Monday, but need confirmation (and flights! :)
<ev> nice
<cjwatson> oh yes, I have one AOB
<cjwatson> could somebody represent foundations in the release meeting on Friday?
<ev> jhunt_: you're making me feel better about not having my flights for plumbers sorted then
<doko_> can do
<cjwatson> I'll be travelling, and slangasek will be at DebConf but I don't know if he'll be available
<barry> i have a dr. appt
<doko_> could you email me some status?
<cjwatson> great, thank you - I don't have it right now, I usually distil it from the logs of this meeting
<cjwatson> from the lightning round, intersected with status.c.c
<cjwatson> I'll get Kate to CC you on the agenda this week
<cjwatson> e.g. http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/15/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t15:25
<cjwatson> it tends to be a bit reduced, a full representation of what everyone's been doing would be too long, so I try to focus on things interesting to other teams
<cjwatson> ok, anything else?
<cjwatson> that's a wrap then, thanks all
<ev> thanks!
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:46.
<stgraber> thanks!
<jhunt_> thx
<barry> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
 * patrickmw waves
<pedro_> hello folks
<pedro_> lets start the QA meeting
<pedro_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is pedro_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * charlie-tca waves
<pedro_> as always the Agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Previous Actions - all
<MootBot> New Topic:  Previous Actions - all
<pedro_> is there any pending items from previous meeting?
<pedro_> i don't recall any
<pedro_> ok seems not
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Community Efforts/Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community Efforts/Testing
<jibel> Hey all
<pedro_> jibel, bonjour
<jibel> Hola pedro_
<jibel> This week we are testing 10.04.3 candidates.
<jibel> You can see results here http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<jibel> We still need help with Ubuntu 'Run Once' test cases
<jibel> And Kubuntu too.
 * charlie-tca is running Kubuntu tests, with a slow internet
<jibel> Testing is easy, you sync a 10.04.3 image, and run one of the test linked from the tracker
<jibel> Test on VM are valid also.
<jibel> On Oneiric, we are still testing nVidia and ATI proprietary drivers
<jibel> http://xorg.qa.ubuntu.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://xorg.qa.ubuntu.com/
<pedro_> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/notcompleted are two good links to look for the ISO testing btw
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/notcompleted are two good links to look for the ISO testing btw
<jibel> If you have one of these card you can contribute to improve its support in the next release.
<jibel> Even if its really broken, we want to know about it.
<jibel> that's all from me.
<jibel> ..
<pedro_> folks any question or comment on the topic ?
<pedro_> ok next topic on the agenda
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Automated/Systems Testing
<pedro_> patrickmw, stage is all yours
<patrickmw> = Kernel SRU =
<patrickmw> * USIT merges complete for Lucid kernel testing (updates and proposed)
<patrickmw> * waiting for USIT daily build to complete, then on to Lucid kernel jenkins jobs
<patrickmw> = Upgrade Testing =
<patrickmw> * setup complete on albali
<patrickmw> * currently creating jenkins jobs with mvo
<patrickmw> expected to have lucid kernel sru updates and proposed, and Oneiric upgrade testing running EOW
<patrickmw> that's all from me if there are no questions
<pedro_> is there any questions/comments?
<pgraner> pedro_, 0/
<pedro_> pgraner, please go ahead
<pgraner> FYI for everyone I'll be in the Datacenter Tue-Wed of next week upgrading the boxes
<pgraner> I have disks memory and other goodies going in
<pgraner> I'll coordinate with folks individually about down time
<pgraner> EOF
<pedro_> anyone else?
<patrickmw> pgraner, good.  looking forward to see why naartjie won't stay online
<pgraner> patrickmw, I confirmed is a BIOS issue and I'll update
<patrickmw> thanks!
<pedro_> lets go for the next item on the agenda
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Engineering Team Bug Status
<pedro_> bdmurray, Ursinha, anything to share?
<Ursinha> o/
<bdmurray> I uploaded a new version of kerneloops enabling it and not reporting Oopses with WARNINGS in them for the kernel
<bdmurray> There is also a new version of apport that tags the bugs using the driver the Oops occurred in
<bdmurray> I updated the plymouth apport source package hook bug 787685
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 787685 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Please include grub.cfg in apport hook" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/787685
<bdmurray> Also after doing some triage of memtest86+ bugs realized a lot were grub updating errors so moved those there and updated apport's handling of those
<bdmurray> they'll now go directly to grub2
<bdmurray> I also wrote launchpadlib script to searchTasks for package in ubuntu-        foundations-bugs.getBugSubscriberPackages to find tasks and filter by importance, status or tags and added it to arsenal
<bdmurray> done
<Ursinha> Worked on improvements of the Server team's Bug Triaging process
<Ursinha> Changes can be found in the wiki page
<Ursinha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<Ursinha> To support the improved process, I created a report with all bugs Server team should care about
<Ursinha> http://people.canonical.com/~ursula/triage-report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ursula/triage-report.html
<Ursinha> ..
<pedro_> cool! thanks
<jibel> pedro_, don't you have this type of report for the desktop team ?
<pedro_> so as for me : remember that tomorrow we're having a bug day for Banshee, the media player, so if you like music and want to test and application please help us
<pedro_> page is at : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20110721
<pedro_> jibel, yeah i was going to mention that :-)
<pedro_> so we also have a similar page at : http://people.canonical.com/~pedro/desktop/
<jibel> maybe you could share with Ursinha ?
<pedro_> for tracking 'bad bugs' for the desktop team
<Ursinha> jibel: that's why I ask people to share their scripts and reports with the rest of the team, hehe :)
<Ursinha> pedro_: thanks for that
<bdmurray> pedro_: I don't see jockey in that package list
<pedro_> Ursinha, if you like it it could be customized , just a matter of change the package list
<pedro_> bdmurray, i'll add it to the 'other packages' tab
<pedro_> there we list things that are not included in the desktop-bugs subscribed packages
<Ursinha> pedro_: I'm not searching for packages, I'm searching for bugs that have ubuntu-server as bug supervisor, but sure, I'll take a look at the code
<bdmurray> oh I didn't see the tabs ;-)
<Ursinha> pedro_: where's the code?
<Ursinha> pedro_: that's a pretty cool report, btw :D
<pedro_> Ursinha, the ugly script i wrote is at my ~ at that machine, i'll send it to you later
<Ursinha> pedro_: please please please :)
<pedro_> and if you're also interesting on which are the 'top ten' of bad bugs on the desktop
<pedro_> http://people.canonical.com/~pedro/desktop/top-ten.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pedro/desktop/top-ten.html
<pedro_> you can look at that page
<Ursinha> awesome!
<pedro_> its some kind of resume of all the bugs on the tabs
<Ursinha> thanks pedro_, are you accepting contributions? :) if so, we can put that in launchpad and work together, how does that sound to you?
<pedro_> Ursinha, that sounds perfect to me :-)
<Ursinha> wonderful :)
<pedro_> would be nice if someone help me to clean the code a little bit :-P
<Ursinha> I'd appreciate that in my code as well ;)
<pedro_> any others comments on questions on the subject?
<pedro_> ok thanks all, lets move to the next one
<jibel> pedro_, what is the definition of 'worst' ? for example why is bug 772207 in the list ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 772207 in unity (Ubuntu) "version 173.14.30 driver is buggy for NVidia GeForce FX series" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772207
<pedro_> oh not yet <
<jibel> number of affected users ?
<pedro_> jibel, indeed, that report is listed because it's affecting a lot of users
<pedro_> the report is made based on quantity of dups, numbers of affecting users and importances
<jibel> ok interesting.
<Ursinha> pedro_: maybe mentioning the criteria at the top would avoid confusion
<pedro_> so if you mark a bug as high or critical it will appear in the report no matter how many users are affected
<pedro_> and if it has a good quantity of users affected, which is customized for every tab , it will appear there, same for duplicates
<jibel> bdmurray, would these reports be useful to the foundation team aswell ?
<bdmurray> jibel: I'll play with it and see what we get in the bugs list
<pedro_> Ursinha, yes i'll add that, we've been using it just for the desktop so they know why they're listed there, but for external viewers yeah its not clear
<Ursinha> pedro_, bdmurray: we can talk about all those reports in our sprint :)
<pedro_> oh yes :-)
<bdmurray> indeed
<pedro_> btw all sorted, i'm going :-)
<Ursinha> yay!
<pedro_> any other comments/questions?
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Other Topics
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Topics
<pedro_> Anything else you'd like to discuss at the meeting?
<pedro_> ok next item and last one
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Chair Selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair Selection
<pedro_> so hggdh already volunteered for it
<pedro_> thanks hggdh :-)
<pedro_> ok last reminders , please help with the ISO Testing http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ join #ubuntu-testing for more info and please help with the bug day https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20110721 join #ubuntu-bugs for info on that
<pedro_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:39.
<pedro_> thanks all for participating!
<jibel> Thanks pedro_ for chairing
<Ursinha> thanks pedro_, and all
<pedro_> you're welcome
 * pedro_ -> lunch 
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-21
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110721#preview
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110721#preview
<janimo> hello
 * NCommander waits for people to arrive
 * GrueMaster has coffee, will type.
 * NCommander expects no ogra or davidm so just waiting for the last few regulars
<ppisati> o/
<GrueMaster> NCommander: Need to update the web page to point to Alpha3 WI.
<NCommander> no AI from last week, so standing items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<GrueMaster> Try Alpha 3 workitem tracker please.
<davidm> I'm about but OTP so distracted
<NCommander> any comments or shall I move on?
 * janimo mistyped something agains, as his DONe items appear TODO
<GrueMaster> I fixed it janimo.
<janimo> GrueMaster, thanks. Was it missing colons?
<GrueMaster> yes
 * janimo tries to remember for next time
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<NCommander> work proceeds very slowly on partman-uboot on getting automated partitioning working for OMAP
<NCommander> Omega: did preinstall pool land?
<NCommander> er, infinity
<GrueMaster> Who?
<janimo> Omega, being the last greek letter is almost like infinity
<NCommander> ,e [ples infinity
 * NCommander pokes infinity 
<NCommander> we
<NCommander> we
<NCommander> we'll come back
<NCommander> it would be nice if I could type
<GrueMaster> He pulled an alnighter.  May be MIA.
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<GrueMaster> Yea, that would help.  :P
<ppisati> Got an updated BSP from agreen, rebased and pushed to my onerici/ti-omap4-next branch. Sent a pull request to replace oneiric/ti-omap4 with the 3.0.0 version (a binary package is available here: http://people.canonical.com/~ppisati/ti-omap4-next/), so far testing is good.
<ppisati> As a side news, i started triaging marvin24 patches for a possible port to 3.0: so far i counted around 2800 patches.
<ppisati> of course the last one is about oneiric/tegra.
<ppisati> nothing else to report.
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<janimo> ppisati, you mean backport from 3.1 to 3.0
<janimo> ?
<NCommander> Made progres towards debugging ocaml
<janimo> fixed and given back a few of the regulars. no hardcore debugging though
<ppisati> janimo: nope, 2.6.38 to 3.0.0
<NCommander> confirmed that it looks like a binutils regression
<ppisati> janimo: does marvin start a 3 kernel?
<janimo> ppisati, marvin24 is integrating his stuff in 3.1, could it be easier to backport?
<janimo> ppisati, there's a tegra mailing list, where he sends patches and it gets upstreamed. Some stuff is already in 3.0 _I think_ but am not sure
<ppisati> janimo: doh!
<NCommander> can I get back to ARM porting?
<janimo> ppisati, no worries, the ac100/tegra community is very disorganised and low profile, not obvious where to start
<janimo> NCommander, sure, sorry
<NCommander> I've filed inoration on the ocaml segfault and a probable cause on the bug and kicked it back to linaro to looks at binutils
<NCommander> Beise work on partman-uboot I got nothing else, janimo you got anything ot add?
 * janimo does not google what inoration mean as he suspects it is not a word
 * GrueMaster hires an interpreter to decipher the last few lines.
<NCommander> ugh
<NCommander> janimo: do you want to add someting to the ARM porting progress?
<janimo> NCommander, nothing besides the first line added on the topic above
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<NCommander> I don't have anything to add, althogh infinity was supposed to land preinstall pool on mMonday, I am unsure if it has landed
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Lots of progress researching and running the required tests for this cycle.
<GrueMaster> Now have 5 pandas online at home, with a 6th spare (dup mac address) and 7th in shipping.
<GrueMaster> As soon as I can get the tests to run manually and documented, I will work on adding them to jenkins for periodic autotesting.
<GrueMaster> Started a wiki at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/QA/Server to document test procedures.
<GrueMaster> mahmoh: anything to add?
<mahmoh> just testing kernel (3.0.0-1~), apache, IO (a lot of IO)
<mahmoh> added plans for cloud and other application testing
<mahmoh> will all be documented on the wiki page above
<GrueMaster> Spent some time reproducing the USB IO performance bug 709245.  Reproducable from Maverick forward.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 709245 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "panda: USB disk IO slow" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709245
<mahmoh> that's it for now, if there are things that need to be tested, please bring it to our attention
<mahmoh> I did have a question about the server kernel, will there be one or can we just setup netboot install to add elevator=deadline?
<GrueMaster> This bug appears to affect all systems with this particular chipset.  It was mentioned on #ubuntu-arm to also be affecting BeagleXM, Beagle, and even Tegra.
<GrueMaster> Nothing else to report.
<NCommander> [topic] aob
<MootBot> New Topic:  aob
<NCommander> anything/one else?
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:29.
<GrueMaster> mahmoh: There probably won't be a server specific armel kernel.
<mahmoh> then install should add a scheduler line to boot
<mahmoh> Daviey: ^ ^^?
 * greg-g waves
 * pleia2 waves
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-07-22
<pleia2> Hi everyone, just rounding up quorum for the americas meeting and then we'll get started
<pleia2> yay Pendulum!
<Pendulum> sorry! not on my own laptop, but here now :)
<maco> hell
<maco> o
<maco> s/\n//
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:05. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pleia2> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for July 21st, 2011. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<pleia2> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<pleia2> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<pleia2> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<pleia2> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<pleia2> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<pleia2> looks like tenach isn't here
<pleia2> mizuno: are you around?
<mizuno> Hi
<pleia2> [TOPIC] mizuno membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  mizuno membership
<greg-g> welcome, mizuno, please introduce yourself
<mizuno> I'm a member of Japanese LoCo Team.
<greg-g> mizuno: so, all of those magazine issues, did you write an article for them?
<greg-g> (I must admit, I do not read Japanese :) )
<mizuno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HajimeMizuno
<mizuno> greg-g: yes
<mizuno> I organize various events for Ubuntu in Japan.I want to make ubuntu known more in Japan.
<jkbys> He wrote one or more articles for magazines listed on his page.
<pleia2> wow, this is a very good wiki page!
<greg-g> wow, that is great! I'm impressed just by how much you have written!
<mizuno> pleia2: thank you
<pleia2> great testimonials
<pleia2> well, you've clearly done amazing work and it's very well-documented so I don't have any questions!
<pleia2> [VOTE] mizuno membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  mizuno membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Pendulum> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pendulum. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
 * greg-g pokes maco 
<maco> wah too fast
<maco> woah
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<pleia2> congrats and welcome, mizuno!
<greg-g> congrats and welcome, mizuno !
<k1l> gratz mizuno :)
<jkbys> congrats, mizuno
<mizuno> Thank you!
<maco>  ããã
<Pendulum> mizuno: congrats! great job!
<pleia2> k1l: are you here?
<k1l> o/
<pleia2> [TOPIC] k1l membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  k1l membership
<k1l> Hi everyone, my name ist Achim Behrens, i am 26 and from Cologne/Germany. I am studying sports sience, row in the first german rowing league and i am the junior coach at my club.
<k1l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/k1l and https://launchpad.net/~k1l
<k1l> after a false start with linux (graphic card drivers related on opensuse) i tried breezy some time lateron with a new machine and since then i am using it first in dualboot and after that on daily use.
<k1l> i got to know the german support and offtopic channel and started to help users where i could give a hand. in 2008 the german op team asked me to join their team. today i am one of 2 ops who are still active since then and was granted superop rights from the teamleader to setup flags and stuff for new ops etc.
<k1l> maybe someone knows me from #ubuntu-irc and i hope not from some complaints :)
<k1l> besides that i tried to help with some german translations in rosetta after i found myself a very strange one in a released ubuntu, but as you can see on my karma there wasnt much spare time last year.
<greg-g> :)
<pleia2> k1l: I don't see any testimonials on your wiki page, did anyone from your team happen to come to this meeting tonight to speak about your work?
<k1l> actually we are trying to reinforce our operators team since we had some dropouts.
<greg-g> k1l: have you thought about going through IRC Council for membership? since that's your community?
<k1l> pleia2: actually its 2am in germany :/ but i didnt know that this is necessary
<k1l> greg-g: yep i asked one of them but they said that the #ubuntu-de channels are no core channels i should ask at a regular member board
<pleia2> k1l: well it's hard for us to do an analysis of work on irc (or forums, or the like) because we're not involved with that community and don't speak german, so in these cases testimonals are important
<greg-g> ( the IRC Council wiki page, just for the record: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil )
<greg-g> k1l: oh, interesting.
<pleia2> I don't think that's correct, it should be IRC contributions anywhere :\
<pleia2> "There are many additional methods of contributing to the Ubuntu IRC community (which includes all channels in the Ubuntu project namespace, not just core channels)"
<pleia2> from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Membership
<pleia2> k1l: do you remember who you spoke to?
<k1l> pleia2: afaik they granted only one member membership status so far.
<greg-g> interesting
<pleia2> yeah, but that's because no one has been applying
<pleia2> k1l: I'd suggest getting some testimonials and talking to them again (you can let me know if you run into trouble)
<maco> or at least the "get testimonials" part
 * greg-g nods
<k1l> picci and topyli were the guys
<maco> its totally fine for them to be in german, by the way
<greg-g> getting people to leave messages on your wiki page is really helpful.
<maco> we've all got google translate :)
<pleia2> Pici isn't an IRCC member anymore, I'll talk to topyli to make sure we're all on the same page with this
<pleia2> (I suspect it's just a misunderstanding :))
 * greg-g nods
<k1l> ok, didnt know testimonial are that important because i contributed since a longer periode and have access list right in the channels because the teamleader isnt that active at this time.
<pleia2> k1l: I'm sure you do great work, we just need some kind of confirmation from your community :)
<maco> k1l: and the testimonials DONT have to be from existing ubuntu members
<maco> anyone who's seen you being helpful and getting along well with everyone is fine
<k1l> pleia2: ok, than i will try my best at a ircc meeting
<pleia2> k1l: thanks! and feel free to let me know if you have any questions or have any trouble :)
<pleia2> (any of us can help really)
<greg-g> k1l: good luck, and thanks for all of your work! Come back as soon as you can!
<k1l> maco: ok didnt know that. the german community has a own userbase ( ubuntuusers.de ) and im not used to the behaviour on the wiki.ubuntu.com
<maco> k1l: all you need to edit wiki.ubuntu.com is a launchpad account
<k1l> allright. thank you for your time.
<greg-g> thank you.
<pleia2> thanks everyone, that's it for this evening!
<greg-g> take care!
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:32.
<gumara> Ah, Finally I'm here - -"
<Daviey> o/
<pitti> \o
<jdstrand> hi
<jibel> \o
 * mounir made it
 * rsalveti waves
<rsalveti> mounir: great :-)
<rsalveti> mounir: have it all to do it this time?
<rsalveti> I can help if you need
<mounir> rsalveti: real good to know you are here :)
 * skaet waves
 * joshuahoover waves
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [Topic] Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<skaet> .
<skaet> Agenda is at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-07-22
<skaet> .
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<skaet> Many thanks to everyone to helped get 10.04.3 developed, built and tested!
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-07-22
<skaet> It was released yesterday.   For details see:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ReleaseNotes/ChangeSummary/10.04.3
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ReleaseNotes/ChangeSummary/10.04.3
<skaet> There will be a feedback session after this meeting, so anyone who wants to participate please stay around, and I'll post the meeting info if there's quorum.   If you ideas about areas to improve feel free to add them to:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/10.04.3/Feedback
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/10.04.3/Feedback
<skaet> .
<infinity> o/
<skaet> Events Approaching:
<skaet> - 11.10 Alpha 3: August 4, 2011
<skaet> - 11.10 FeatureFreeze : August 11, 2011
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<skaet> Bugs milestoned for oneiric alpha 3 are at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=39142
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=39142
<skaet> Please see the agenda are links to versions without the FTBFS in them,  which improves the signal to noise ratio.  ;)
<skaet> .
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> ..
<skaet> infinity, go,  I think the MootBot's caught up now.
<Daviey> Do we have a soft-freeze date for A3?
<skaet> or was infiinity just saying hello?  :)
<infinity> Soft freeze would be Monday before A3?
<skaet> Daviey,  infinity,  yes soft freeze will be Monday before,  like usual.
<Daviey> thanks.
<infinity> That may have been me saying hi. :P
<skaet> heh,  no worries infinity.   Just didn't want to pass over if you did have a question.  :)
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> if not,  lets head into the round table
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> hi all
<skaet> :)
<jibel> * 10.04.3 Testing:
<jibel>  * Testing report will be published early next week.
<jibel>  * Critical/High importance issues found:
<jibel> bug 588861
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588861 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) ""pad block corrupted" error when trying to register an image with 2.6.34 kernel" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588861
<jibel> bug 650703
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 650703 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Maverick) "oem-config-prepare works, but oem-config fails to start after reboot" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650703
<jibel> bug 813837
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 813837 in ltsp (Ubuntu Lucid) "ltsp client not able to load boot file: ltsp/amd64.tmp/pxelinux.0" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813837
<jibel> 588861 is a regression, 650703 was fixed in natty but not SRUed to Lucid, 813837 is under investigation
<jibel> * Automated Testing progress
<jibel>   * Server upgrade tests moved to QA Lab
<jibel>   * Some progress on moving Kernel SRU testing to the QA Lab.
<jibel> * nVidia Proprietary Driver testing:
<jibel>   * leak identified when compiz is used with nvidia binary driver (bug 813365)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 813365 in unity "compiz leaks memory, becomes sluggish and unusable after using it for few hours" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813365
<jibel> * Bug activity for the past week
<jibel>   * 636 new bugs reported during last week against Oneiric (-12% over last week)
<jibel>   * 70% are crashes (+4.8%) and 47% are duplicates (-15%)
<jibel>   * Most duplicated and still opened reports are:
<jibel> bug 804896 and bug 804221 in gnome-settings-daemon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804896 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:140: dequeue_pending_request: Assertion `req == dpy->xcb->pending_requests' failed." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804221 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:515: _XReply: Assertion `!dpy->xcb->reply_data' failed." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804221
<jibel> bug 807950
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807950 in zeitgeist (Ubuntu Oneiric) "zeitgeist-daemon crashed with LookupError in remove_from_connection(): <_zeitgeist.engine.remote.RemoteInterface at /org/gnome/zeitgeist/log/activity at 0xb74ee2cc> is not exported at a location matching (None,None)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807950
<jibel> bug 797078
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 797078 in metacity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "metacity crashed with SIGABRT in raise()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797078
<jibel>   * Top 5 packages with bugs during last week (dups excluded)
<jibel> unity, compiz, gwibber, gnome-control-center, lightdm
<jibel> ..
<skaet> Thanks jibel!
<jibel> any question ?
<skaet> Excellent work coordinating the 10.04.3 testing this week.  Thank you.  :)
<skaet> heh its not a question,  just wanted to say thank you.   :)
<jibel> Thanks for coordinating the release :)
<skaet> i'll digest the list and cross reference after meeting.
<skaet> not seeing other questions so moving on.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<mlegris> Hi all! o/
<mlegris> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/week29_2011.html
<skaet> :)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/week29_2011.html
<mlegris> Bugs:
<mlegris> * Â Bug #810145 - unity-panel-service crashes* Â Bug #708286 - Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700R
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 810145 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGABRT in __kernel_vsyscall()" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810145
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 708286 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708286
<mlegris> * 10.04.3
<mlegris> Testing currently in progress, should be completed EOD
<mlegris> ..
<skaet> Thanks mlegris!  :)
<skaet> In terms of the hardware cert for oneiric,   those 2-3 failures,  are still script failures?  or something else?
 * skaet notes that the server side is looking much better for failures than desktop/laptop :)
<Daviey> accidental.
<skaet> lol
<mlegris> correct, we're still working on our test script to reduce the false negatives
<skaet> coolio.  thanks mlegris
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi
<skaet> :)
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> We are below the trend line for our assigned work items in our blueprints. Fixed a few ufw bugs and enabled ipv6 in ufw by default. We are trying to balance reactive security with work items at this time, and are getting to our remaining work items as time allows. We are hopeful several apparmor work items that our team is responsible for will be completed in the coming weeks.
<jdstrand> Looking at the list of oneiric bugs (thanks for -ftbfs! :), I don't see anything else worth highlighting.
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> Thanks jdstrand!  :)
 * skaet likes -ftbfs as well...
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for oneiric-alpha-3 is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> We uploaded the Ubuntu 3.0.0-6.7 kernel earlier this week and have just rebased to the final v3.0 kernel this morning.  We plan to upload shortly after testing and applying some overlayfs patches.  We are trending slightly above the Alpha3 burn down line but are below in our overall burndown.  The remaining Alpha3 work items are not release critical.
<ogasawara> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> #542660: looks to be related to EFI boot not loading the video bios into ram.
<ogasawara> #557261: still no confirmation with a 3.0 kernel and not convinced the warning output by the radeon driver is the root cause of the usb-creator persistence issue.  Bug reporter has followed up in the upstream bug report regarding the driver warning, but no response back yet.
<ogasawara> #754711: on a 3.0 oneiric kernel, system now suspends but doesn't resume.  would like to use cking's systemtap scripts to debug, if and when they are working on oneiric.
<ogasawara> #758486: awaiting additional debug information.
<ogasawara> #760131: partly fixed in Oneiric and soon natty, more analysis ongoing upstream.
<ogasawara> #784937: seems that names of disk devices have changed, investigation by kernel dev still ongoing as well as discussion with upstream.
<ogasawara> #790712: the order 5 allocation seems to be bogus and non-fatal; further investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #791850: seems to be triggered by an amazon side change which amazon is investigating; awaiting feedback.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara. :)
 * skaet still reading
<skaet> appreciate the detail :)  no questions for now.    and not seeing any others,  so moving on...
<Martyn> osagawara : Is the 3.0 final package available for install?
<ogasawara> Martyn: not yet, hopefully uploaded by EOD and packages finished building by tomorrow-ish
 * skaet looks around for others.... just in case
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team update - doko_
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - doko_
<Martyn> ok.  I'll regress the 542660 on my iMac
<doko_> - ongoing work on getting python-support from the CD's
<doko_> - preparations for a 5000 bug triage (all upgrade related reports)
<doko_> - ongoing work on software center and unattended upgrades
<doko_> - work on dbus and upstart related issues.
<doko_> - Starting back in on the GRUB menu enhancements required to use it on the CD
<doko_> - GCC/Linaro July release uploaded to oneiric.
<doko_> - ongoing Wubi work
<doko_> - many people at Debconf this week and the next week
<doko_> - the "noise" is down under 700 reports
<doko_> sorry, not that formal this week ...
<skaet> ..?
 * skaet just wondering if you're done, and I can ask some questions...
<doko_> yes, done
<skaet> Thanks doko_ :),
<skaet> Did the gcc linaro branch get cut?
<doko_> I didn't check
<skaet> ok,  lets see if rsalveti has an update a bit later on that.
<mounir> skaet: gcc linaro 4.5, 4.6 and qemu have been released if that is what you are asking
<skaet> mounir, no,  michael is going to be making a branch from here on,  I believe,  so we only get bug fixes from now to end of release.   Just wanted to check it happened.
<skaet> doko_, anything about to land from foundations before alpha3 that could be problematic for othere?
<skaet> others even ;)
<rsalveti> skaet: this latest upload already incorporate linaro gcc4.6, so now we just need to follow how these stable releases are going to work for next months
<doko_> not that I am aware of. the gcc-4.6 on armel is still building however
<skaet> thanks doko_!
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> rsalveti,  yup its the stable "releases" from the branch, I just want to make sure we're all coordinated on.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - infinity
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - infinity
<infinity> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<infinity> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-arm.html
<infinity> To be fair, I was told only last night that I was filling in for ogra and NCommander in the meeting, so I can't speak to the team's overall progress here as well as I'd like.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-arm.html
<infinity> We've been knocking off WIs though, especially in the QA and Server validation areas, ubuntu-core landed (and seems to DTRT), and preinstall package pools will make it for A3 (I have a working implementation here, except that it still requires me to fiddle with cdimage to enable mangling of the images to sign the preinstalled pool).
<infinity> ...
<skaet> Thanks infinity!
<skaet> do we have working OMAP3 images yet?  or is that still broken?
<infinity> I'd have to ask GrueMaster, I'm not sure, since I have no OMAP3 hardware... ;)
<infinity> (Note the lack of preparedness for the meeting)
<skaet> lol
<skaet> understood.   and thanks for steping in.  :)
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - Daviey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> Hello..
<Daviey> == Feature Development ==
<Daviey> This week has mostly been about consolidating work that has happend since the platform rally.  We've largely been working on bugs associated with features, many of which were uncovered recently.
<Daviey> Cycle Overview:
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<Daviey> Areas of concern:
<Daviey> server-o-lxc-improvements - This is expected to get significant attention in an LXC sprint Canonical are running starting in two weeks.
<Daviey> server-o-boot-experience - Spamaps has been working on this during the week, suspect the work will roll into next week.
<Daviey> == Bugs pertinent to Oneiric Server release ==
<Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~davewalker/release-bugs.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~davewalker/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> This includes bugs we are working on, bugs other teams are working on that we are watching and the MIR's we need.
<Daviey> * If there are bugs missing on that list, please raise it with me asap. *
<Daviey> Bugs to note:
<Daviey> Bug-791850 in linux (Ubuntu): "oneiric cluster compute instances do not boot" -- Currently assigned to utlemming whilst he tries to find out some further information from Amazon, but will most likely need to be handed over to the kernel team.
<Daviey> Bug-813295 in python2.7 (Ubuntu): "urlib.request fails to open Eucalyptus metadata service" -- Seems to be a bug in upstream python, barry has been assisting in a resolution. (it's expected that it will affect other apps).
<Daviey> Bug-578536 in autofs5 (Ubuntu): "when stopped, automount orphans some mounts" -- Emailed upstream asking for clarification of the resolution, and as yet waiting for a response.  Suspect will need to bisect.
<Daviey> <-- Cobbler bugs -->: RoAkSox is currently working to address them.
<Daviey> ...
<skaet> Thanks Daviey
<Daviey> questions?
<skaet> will look at your release bugs list after the meeting in more detail  :)
<barry> still no resolution in the upstream bug, but i'm still tracking it
<Daviey> barry: thanks!
<skaet> Daviey,  what is going to be landing between now and A3 freeze?
<Daviey> skaet: TBH, it largely depends how quickly we can get some of the feature issues resolved.
<skaet> ok,  just a reminder then that feature freeze is one week after  ;)
<skaet> any other questions
<skaet> ?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro update - rsalvetti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - rsalvetti
<rsalveti> mounir: want to go?
<skaet> or mounir. :)
<rsalveti> if not I also have enough to report :-)
<mounir> rsalveti, it does not matter to me - please go ahead
<rsalveti> ok, let me paste
<rsalveti> - Linux Linaro 3.0 released for 11.07, packages will be updated in the next few days
<rsalveti> - Gcc 4.6 and 4.5 also released: https://launchpad.net/gcc-linaro/+milestone/4.6-2011.07, and gcc-4.6 was already updated by doko reflecting the release
<rsalveti> - Qemu also released: https://launchpad.net/qemu-linaro/+milestone/2011.07, slangasek will follow with the usual packaging for qemu-linaro
<rsalveti> - Work still on going to release Linaro U-Boot for 11.07, as the idea is to release it with SPL support (to replace x-loader on omap)
<rsalveti> - Unfortunately still no update for bug 775849, will push that to see if we can get something at least for alpha 3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 775849 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "[armel] eglibc test regressions on armel in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775849
<rsalveti> skaet: michael updated https://wiki.linaro.org/MichaelHope/Sandbox/StableBranch, so we should have stable releases from now on
<rsalveti> we'll see how that goes
<rsalveti> mounir: anything else you want to cover?
<mounir> graphics: glconbench and glmark have also released
<skaet> ..?
<rsalveti> we'll be working to get that pushed to the archive soon
<rsalveti> and usual plat releases will be out next week
<rsalveti> for Ubuntu LEB and Android, if anyone is interested
<rsalveti> :-)
<rsalveti> ..
<skaet> Thanks rsalveti and mounir!  :)
<skaet> rsalveti,  appreciate if you can get that bug handled before alpha3  :)
<skaet> thanks for the details. :)
<rsalveti> skaet: yeah, will work on that next week, for sure
<skaet> anyone else have any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/OneiricReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/OneiricReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> we have a new release of ubuntuone-control-panel & ubuntuone-storage-protocol out today
<joshuahoover> work on how we change the installation & updates of u1 software begins next week by dobey (he's working on adding work items now):
<joshuahoover> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-ubuntuone-agile-delivery-of-u1
<joshuahoover> new releases of ubuntuone-client will be made once the cross platform issues are worked out...we thought that would be this week but the team working on it needs another week (and is sprinting on it next week)
<joshuahoover> questions?
<joshuahoover> --
<pitti> o/
<skaet> Thanks joshuahoover
<skaet> go pitti
<pitti> I had a question last week about the plans for porting the rhythmbox music store to GTK3, or whether it should be dropped entirely?
<pitti> we can do either, just need to know at some point to unbreak the upgrade
<joshuahoover> pitti: right, i asked Chipaca about that and he said we want to but we're not sure we can support it, i'll push for a decision by the next meeting
<Chipaca> if that's next week, we need to talk today :)
<pitti> joshuahoover: ok, thanks; if we are going to drop, we can do that late in the game, but doing this by beta-1 would be great
<skaet> joshuahoover, ok if I give an action item to track it?
<pitti> thanks joshuahoover
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> joshuahoover, looking forward to seeing the new features,  thanks for letting us know they've landed.  :)
<skaet> ok,  moving on...
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team update - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team update - pitti
<pitti> New compiz/unity releases this week. Compiz introduced some known performance and keybinding regressions, which are known and being worked on by DX.
<pitti> Landed python3-gobject in Debian sid and oneiric, which should help with adopting Python 3.
<pitti> software-center port to GTK3 making good progress, but will most probably miss oneiric; will land in time for the 12.04 LTS, though. Also, Shotwell and Firefox confirmed that they are working on GTK3 port, so we can hopefully drop GTK 3 in 12.04 LTS.
<pitti> UbuntuSpec:desktop-o-cd-localization reached beta now: version 0.9 grew a mostly working image build script, plus the remaining required features. Now this only needs packaging of our syslinux theme, then it should be ready for more widespread testing.
<pitti> Work item status: a bit behind on alpha-3, but on track for final release. But we have a bunch of blueprints which can easily be postponed to the next cycle, to concentrate on bug fixing after alpha-3.
<pitti> CD size: back from 730 to 715 MB, by reverting back to ibus-pinyin; Chinese Edition will have sunpinyin, as well as online installations with the regular CD (pulled in by language-selector and ubiquity). Thunderbird grew by 3 MB, will be fixed in next upload again.
<pitti> RC bugs:
<pitti>  * Moderate progress
<pitti>  * no serious alpha-3 breakers right now
<pitti>  * most important one is bug Bug:806064; now discussed with Robert, and solution is clear, and on track for alpha-3
<pitti>  * Details at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs as usual
<pitti> and, to preemt skaet's next question:
<pitti> Major things that we expect to land this release still, and which you might need to be aware of:
<pitti>  * LibreOffice 3.4 (probably for alpha-3, package almost ready to go)
<pitti>  * Some GNOME 3.2 bits like the online accounts panel (currently going through NEW and being integrated)
<skaet> lol
<pitti>  * Chinese Edition (doesn't directly affect Ubuntu images, though)
<pitti>  * Ubuntu lightdm theme (already in universe)
<pitti> ..
<skaet> Thanks pitti!  :)
 * skaet likes having questions pre-empted ;)
<skaet> anyone else have questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
<dbarth> hi
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> status notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus#preview
<dbarth> (minus the preview)
<dbarth> in essence, we've got a new unity release with an interesting shared lib
<dbarth> will be used between the 3d and 2d update of lenses
<dbarth> big news on the CJK issue this week
<pitti> \o/
<dbarth> we've got a fix up for testing; kudos go to Brandon and didrocks
<dbarth> a new alt-tab plugin as well, landing next to a compiz release that we would have liked better
<dbarth> (corrective actions in place)
<dbarth> a new libindicator release for those who care, otherwise work on the rest of the stack progressing well
<dbarth> utouch, nothing big, but the QML integration is closer; API has been reviewed, looking good
<dbarth> slow progresses on unity-2d
<dbarth> but florian back next monday to unblock loads of merge props lined up this week
<dbarth> ...
<dbarth> ..
<skaet> Thanks dbarth :)
<skaet> what's planned to land between now and A3?
<dbarth> an update of the lenses essentially, using the new shared library
<dbarth> that's the main element
<skaet> do you have an outlook date?
<dbarth> for the rest will mostly start hitting the bug pile
<dbarth> next week'ish for the first code drop
<dbarth> and the week after for something more solid
<dbarth> we don't have much time left
<skaet> thanks dbarth,  yup.   Just trying to figure out how it will all fit,  and when we might be a bit broken ;)
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Hello
<skaet> :)
<ScottK> The major news this week is we've finally transitioned to the KDE git based 4.7 tarballs that are split into a LOT more packages.
<ScottK> We have all the packaging updated and KDE 4.7 rc1 in the archive.
<ScottK> 4.7.0 will be tagged this week and we are starting on packaging it.
<skaet> :)
<ScottK> There's a little bit of maintenance work left of getting rid of old packages and kubuntu packageset definition, but we are ~there.
<ScottK> I want to mention bug 735166 - KDE upstream's position on this is very clear and we'll (as we generally do) follow them in this.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 735166 in kde-workspace (Ubuntu) "Hide KDE System Settings in Ubuntu" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/735166
<ScottK> I think Gnome is clearly in the wrong and that's where it needs to be fixed.
<ScottK> In the meantime, if there's an Ubuntu work around for the Gnome bug, it shouldn't be in the KDE packages.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK
<ScottK> (there's a reference in the bug to the upstream discussion)
<skaet> Sounds like 4.7 will make A3 :)   congrats!
<ScottK> Barring disaster, yes.
<pitti> . o { another reason to drop the shell completely and provide a Unity lens *cough* }
 * skaet crosses fingers to avert disaster.  ;)
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage
<MootBot> New Topic:  Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage
 * skaet looks around for highvoltage ?
<skaet> hmm... ok moving on.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<MootBot> New Topic:  Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Bug 804734 is fixed, now we are working to get lightdm working in time for alpha3.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804734 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Please ship 60xdg_path-on-session like gdm" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804734
<charlie-tca> No major changes planned other than getting lightdm working fully
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> Thanks charlie-tca!  :)
<skaet> ok,  won't worry to much about interactions specific for Xubuntu then for A3.   Anything concerns about Feature Freeze the following week?
<charlie-tca> none that I know of at this time
<skaet> thanks.   any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - tumbleweed
 * tumbleweed waves
<skaet> :)
<tumbleweed> I've been pretty much offline this week (and am currently sitting on a plane to debconf (on the ground))
<tumbleweed> There's a fair amount to do, as ever: FTBFS fixing and NBS (transitions)
<tumbleweed> There's FTBFS progress, but slow: http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/qa-ftbfs/oneiric-historical.html
<tumbleweed> ..
<skaet> Thanks tumbleweed :)
<skaet> anyone have questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC]  any other business?  comments/questions/etc...
<MootBot> New Topic:   any other business?  comments/questions/etc...
<skaet> There will be a feedback session for 10.04.3 release,  at the 1/2 hour point after this meeting.   Anyone who wants to attend, and provide feedback,  please drop me a ping after this,  and I'll provide the dialin info.
<skaet> anyone else?
<skaet> ok, its a wrap then.    Thanks everyone!
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:08.
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<charlie-tca> Thanks, skaet
<skaet> Thanks jibel, mlegris, jdstrand, ogasawara, doko_,  infinity, rsalveti, mounir, Daviey, joshuahoover,  Chipaca, pitti, dbarth, ScottK, charlie-tca, tumbleweed.
<joshuahoover> thank you skaet
<rsalveti> skaet: thanks!
<jdstrand> thanks skaet :)
<jibel> Thanks skaet
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-16
<eee444> hi, could someone hwlp me get my dwl650 to work with aircrack?
<mdeslaur> jjohansen, sbeattie, tyhicks, micahg: meeting!
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> o/
<mdeslaur> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 16 18:14:56 2012 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<mdeslaur> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<mdeslaur> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<mdeslaur> sbeattie pushed out kees' xorg update, \o/
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<mdeslaur> I'll go first
<mdeslaur> so this week I'm in the happy place
<mdeslaur> I've got some embargoed issues I'm looking at
<mdeslaur> and am trying to get kdepim built
<mdeslaur> also am working on the python rewrite of the vm-hacks
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on triage this week, since jdstrand and I swapped.
<sbeattie> Speaking of the xorg update, I'll be shepherding a revert of a couple of prior SRU fixes that introduced regressions .
<sbeattie> (because they were pulled into the security pocket with the security update)
<mdeslaur> \o/
<sbeattie> yeah, whee.
<sbeattie> I have an embargoed issue on my plate.
<sbeattie> And after that, I'll move on to some of my work items that are feeling neglected.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: you're up!
<micahg> webkit, piloting, mozilla training
<micahg> I think that's it
<micahg> tyhicks: next
<tyhicks> I'm handling community this week (but won't have a chance to get to it until mid-week)
<tyhicks> I'm doing Mozilla release testing today
<tyhicks> Hopefully there are no surprises and firefox 14.0.1 and thunderbird 14.0 can go out to the stable releases tomorrow
<tyhicks> After that, I'll work on the rubygems update and a work item
<tyhicks> probably the auditd work item, but I need to look over the list again
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: make sure you pick one of the essential ones
<tyhicks> There will also be a little preparation for the upcoming 3.6 kernel merge window
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: ack - I'm not sure if that one is essential, so I'll make sure before I start
<tyhicks> I think that is it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up
<jjohansen> I need to poke at debian 679597 to make sure the confirmed fix gets pulled in to wheezy (so just poking people to make sure it gets done).
<jjohansen> I am sprinting with the kernel team wed and thurs to go over the reactive kernel work (work flow, deferred cves..)
<jjohansen> I need to hand the dbus patches over to sbeattie so that he can have fun with them.
<ubottu> Debian bug 679597 in apparmor "apparmor: AppArmor totally broken" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/679597
<jjohansen> I need to finish debugging and push out the current set of 4 items/features I have been working on for apparmor
<jjohansen> and if I get really ambitious maybe file a bug on the uefi upgrade fun I hit
<jjohansen> mdeslaur: back to you
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<mdeslaur> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<mdeslaur> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mysql-gui-tools.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libyaml-libyaml-perl.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libphp-jpgraph.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mplayer2.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libipc-pubsub-perl.html
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<mdeslaur> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<mdeslaur> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> <crickets>
<mdeslaur> Thanks everyone!
<mdeslaur> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 16 18:28:33 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-16-18.14.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-16-18.14.html
<mdeslaur> #endworldhunger
<jjohansen> thanks mdeslaur
<tyhicks> thanks mdeslaur
<sbeattie> heh, thanks mdeslaur
<Laney> ?
 * micahg waves
<bdrung> dmb-ping
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<Laney> rawr
<cody-somerville> hey
<bdrung> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 16 19:05:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdrung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bdrung> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<bdrung> #subtopic micahg to document the zentyal packageset
<micahg> nope, /me is a slacker
<bdrung> micahg: should we increase the pressure? ;)
<Laney> one beer per meeting undone
<Laney> each.
<micahg> heh
<bdrung> good idea.
<bdrung> should we vote on that? :P
<micahg> as long as it's not retroactive :)
 * cody-somerville grins.
<bdrung> we are not politicians. :)
<bdrung> #subtopic everyone try and be at CC meeting July 5th 17:00 UTC
<Laney> some people did
<Laney> we mainly discussed the PPU-membership thing
<bdrung> which leads to the next item
<bdrung> #subtopic micahg to start a discussion on dmb@ about whether PPU should confer membership
 * micahg forgets if he did that or not
 * micahg started one before the CC meeting
<bdrung> beer, beer, beer!
<Laney> yeah, there is one ther
<Laney> e
<Laney> we should get some kind of consensus
<Laney> weren't we supposed to start one with the cc or something?
<micahg> Laney: no, I think that was bueno's action
<Laney> oh, great
<micahg> beuno I mean
 * Laney eyes bdrung 
<bdrung> shouldn't we come to some kind of consensus?
<beuno> yes, apologies, I have not sent out the proper emails
<beuno> will do so today
<Laney> we should, in ^ thread
<Laney> put it on the agenda for the next meeting
 * stgraber waves
<bdrung> #action add PPU-membership thing discussion for getting a consensus on the agenda
<meetingology> ACTION: add PPU-membership thing discussion for getting a consensus on the agenda
<stgraber> sorry for not showing up earlier, was debugging some cdimage script and missed the beginning of the meeting :(
<bdrung> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<bdrung> #subtopic Iain Lane's core-dev application
<bdrung> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IainLane/CoreDevApplication
<bdrung> Laney: do you like to introduce yourself? ;)
<Laney> ok
<Laney> My name is Iain. I live in Nottingham, which is in the East Midlands in England.
<Laney> It's raining.
<Laney> It's been raining for about three months constantly.
<Laney> I'm a MOTU and I've been one for something over three years now. I've been a DD for a bit over a year.
<bdrung> then you have enough time to code ;)
<Laney> In Ubuntu I'm a backporter, I'm on the release team and I'm also on this DMB.
<Laney> I just joined Canonical on the Desktop team, as you might be able to tell from my endorsers.
<Laney> ..
<micahg> Laney: as you're in ubuntu-desktop know, do you see yourself uploading things outside of MOTU and the desktop package set?
<micahg> s/know/now/
<Laney> yeah, desktop can be kind of limited
<Laney> I have a glib2.0 and poppler upload planned, both of which I don't think are in the desktop set.
<Laney> (the former uploaded to exp already)
<Laney> Also, it would be good to be able to sponsor stuff.
<Laney> Oh. I also found myself looking after emacs a bit.
<bdrung> Laney: will you help to reduce the sponsors queue to zero?
<Laney> I'd like to think so. I've not been a very active sponsor in Ubuntu to date really.
<Laney> I'm much better at sponsoring stuff in Debian for some reason.
<bdrung> Laney: do you know our sponsors queue list?
<Laney> do I know it?
<Laney> You mean do I know where it is?!
<bdrung> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<Laney> yes
<bdrung> have you looked at it?
<Laney> I even submitted a patch to it before
<Laney> which broke it and got reverted
<bdrung> Laney: do you know why you are better sponsor in debian than in ubuntu?
<Laney> more focused teams I guess
<Laney> sometimes people email me directly which works quite well
<Laney> I have a much higher chance of being able to review one of those changes well than any random Ubuntu package
<bdrung> Laney: would grouping by package set help?
<Laney> it does that
<Laney> and yeah, I do sometimes cherry-pick those sponsor request
<Laney> but cli-mono hasn't historically had that many. Maybe it'll be better now with desktop
<bdrung> we could create separate tables for each package set
<Laney> not sure it would add much over being able to sort the columns as you can do currently
<bdrung> would it help to group by debian teams?
<Laney> maybe
<Laney> does it have a feed?
<Laney> or some kind of machine readable output
<bdrung> no, it has no rss feed
<Laney> it would be easy enough to hook it up to whatever fancy stuff if so
<Laney> maybe it should just export json or something
<bdrung> we have a json export
<bdrung> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/sponsoring.json
<bdrung> i like to discuss your "What I like least in Ubuntu" section
<Laney> should be easy enough to compute whatever lists you want then
<Laney> yes! yes let's!
 * skaet also thinks from release team perspective that Laney have wider upload permissions beyond desktop would be good.  :)
<bdrung> you wrote that there are not enough people working on universe.
 * Laney hugs skaet - cheers :-)
<bdrung> it seems to me that the number of MOTUs decrease.
<Laney> right
<bdrung> in contrast, debian seems to grow and grow
<Laney> we barely get any new MOTU though the DMB any more, do we?
<micahg> I think we've had a handful in the last year
<Laney> 5 or so
<bdrung> what can be done?
<Laney> heh
<Laney> we've discussed this for the past several UDS
<bdrung> anything that was successful?
<Laney> this developer advisory team seems like a good idea, but I still don't see very many new active peopl in the channel
<Laney> in Debian you get to own your own stuff, maybe that's why people stick there
<Laney> you can also get involved with the whole of the distro, not just a few teams
<Laney> it's set up differently, which is my second point here
<Laney> perhaps the presence of the company somehow makes people less willing?
<micahg> well, QA is always hard to find, and MOTU kinda acts like Debian QA for universe
<bdrung> maybe, the press sometimes have a strange view on Ubuntu and write "Canonical does this and that", but instead it's done by the community
<Laney> even so, Debian QA is more proactive than MOTU is
<Laney> possibly because there's a higher chance of there being a 'hit' on any bug over there, because each package has a maintainer (at least in theory)
<Laney> whereas in MOTU you have to do it yourself really
<bdrung> your second point was that we do not focus enough on user freedom. can you explain what user freedom means to you? FLOSS?
<bdrung> what can we improve?
<Laney> I get a feeling that we're reluctant to put the freedom of this project we're making as promenantly as we could.
<Laney> People talk about trying to toggle the little 'non-free software' button on in the installer.
<Laney> Teams rely on non-free software for their infrastructure.
<Laney> I dunno, I feel like somehow the Free-ness is a bit more incidental than I'd like it to be.
<bdrung> so we should make it more visible to our developers that Free-ness is very important to us?
<Laney> well, it is to me.
<Laney> I'd like it if the front page of the website held this up.
<bdrung> Laney: did you talked to the web team (or whatever team is responsible for the website)?
<bdrung> Laney: can we MIR unar and get it installed by default? then we can drop unrar from ubuntu-restricted-extras
<Laney> no, mainly because I neither have a good suggestion nor know if other people agree.
<bdrung> how about starting a discussion on the mailing list?
<Laney> no idea what that is. is it a 100% replacement? why does it need to be in main/installed by default?
<bdrung> unar can extract rar files and should be a 100% replacement. the upcoming file-roller can use unar to extract rar files.
<bdrung> we passed the 1 hour mark. let's vote and continue the discussion later.
<Laney> possibly. it could be added as depends/recommends/whatever there and unrar dropped if so.
<Laney> that would be good.
<bdrung> #vote Should Iain Lane become a core-dev?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should Iain Lane become a core-dev?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<micahg> +1 good work all around
<meetingology> +1 good work all around received from micahg
<micahg> and we have +1 from tumbleweed as well
<Laney> cody-somerville: ?
<cody-somerville> +1 for sure
<meetingology> +1 for sure received from cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> strong evidence of leadership and technical merit
<bdrung> there is one +1 from tumbleweed via email
<bdrung> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Iain Lane become a core-dev?
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<stgraber> Laney: added
<Laney> \o/
<stgraber> Laney: did you have any PPU?
<Laney> no
<bdrung> Laney: welcome in the core-dev team
<stgraber> good, no need to fight with edit_acl then
<Laney> motu, desktop, cli-mono
<Laney> oh yeah, did that get fixed?
<Laney> also, thanks all!
<micahg> Laney: congrats
<bdrung> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Select a chair for the next meeting
<bdrung> next chair will be barry
<bdrung> should i add the we go alphabetical through our list?
<stgraber> well, it still takes half an hour to list the upload rights because of the remaining duplicates and some packagesets can't be changed because they are duplicates and the API and DB disagree on the index...
<stgraber> so short answer, no, edit_acl is still a mess
<stgraber> I believe cjwatson fixed the code to create a new series in LP, so it shouldn't get any worse at least
<Laney> ah, so we need SQL-fu to dedup
<stgraber> yeah
<stgraber> I have a bug and ticket open on LP for months now... might go poke #launchpad-ops about getting that stuff done
<Laney> would be good
<bdrung> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 16 20:07:54 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-16-19.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-16-19.05.html
<stgraber> Laney: bug 887185
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 887185 in Launchpad itself "ArchivePermission allows duplicated rows" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/887185
<stgraber> Laney: basically the code change landed but nobody fixed the DB and it's still assigned to cjwatson who AFAIK doesn't have DB access so can't actually fix the mess
<Laney> aha, but wgrant has put some SELECT queries up
<Laney> so it should be track-downable for someone who knows this stuff
<ScottK> Laney: Congratulations.
<Laney> ScottK: merci
<cjwatson> stgraber: Eh, no
<cjwatson> stgraber: I can fix it with a garbo job or similar but haven't got round to it
<cjwatson> Or failing that asking ops to do manual SQL.  But nobody else is going to do it :-)
<stgraber> cjwatson: I poked ops earlier and filed bug 1025441 to track that work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025441 in Launchpad itself "Please clean up the duplicates from archivepermission" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025441
<cjwatson> stgraber: Bah, or somebody could have just reminded me :-)
<cjwatson> I can do it on Wednesday if the maint squad doesn't beat me to it
<stgraber> cjwatson: cool, thanks
<cjwatson> FWIW, no Launchpad developers have direct database access - it all goes through ops
<cjwatson> (Well, except team leads, even then under constraints)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-17
<Daviey> o/
<arosales> Hello
<utlemming> greetings
<Daviey> utlemming: driving today?
<utlemming> Daviey: up, just pulling all the stuff up now
<Daviey> super duper
<jamespage> o/
<smoser> o/
<utlemming> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 17 16:01:38 2012 UTC.  The chair is utlemming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<utlemming> Welcome everyone to our server meeting!
<utlemming> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> hiho
<utlemming> jamespage: you had an action to checkin with MIR team on expected review timescales for server MIRs
<utlemming> and zul to make sure relevant MIR bugs have ubuntu-server-release subscribed
<jamespage> most MIR's are now assigned an owner - there are a few I still need to checkin on
<zul> utlemming: oops
<jamespage> I also went through the MIR team subscribed bugs and added the 'Ubuntu Server Team' a bug subscription for those packages
<jamespage> so I think the list is now up-to-date in http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<utlemming> jamespage: is there any further action on that? Or do we need to carry it over for next week?
<zul> i have at least 5 more dependencies coming up, still need to be reviewed by an archvie admin
<jamespage> there is but the original action got me todo the important stuff so please close
<jamespage> I'll keep pushing on this stuff - lets monitor through the development update section
<utlemming> zul: do we need followup next week?
<zul> utlemming: no i can do that once they get into the archive
<utlemming> okay, moving on...
<utlemming> arosales: had an action to sort out blueprints and get the trend line working correctly
<utlemming> arosale: do you have a status update for us?
<arosales> I spoke with Daviey on the topic mapping
<arosales> I need to get the trend line reset
<arosales> I'll try to get that done this week.
<utlemming> #action arosales and daviey to work on trend line reset
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales and daviey to work on trend line reset
<Daviey> inpreogressy-done-ish
<utlemming> smoser, jamespage: had an action for review and assign SRU bug across team.
<jamespage> done
<utlemming> okay, rbasak: find out whether openvswitch module can be enabled for quantal ARM kernels
<jamespage> utlemming, mark that done - kernel team confirmed they would review
<utlemming> jamespage: ack
<utlemming> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Quantal Development
<utlemming> Any topics for Quantal Development?
<arosales> A few for Blueprints
<arosales> utlemming: may I interject?
<utlemming> arosales: please
<arosales> So we should roughly be around 30% complete for BPs at this point in the cycle
<arosales> there are a few that are at 0%
<arosales> I'll step through those if you don't mind utlemming
<arosales> ARM
<arosales> rbask a few that are at 0%
<arosales> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-servercloud-arm.html
<arosales> specifically
<arosales> 		https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-server-benchmark-and-performance
<arosales> 		https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-arm-server-storage-testing
<arosales> for rbasak for the log minutes
<arosales> utlemming: push to the clouds
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-push-to-the-clouds
<arosales> I think hardware is in progress there, other status up to date?
<arosales> Bug Triage
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-bug-triage-review
<arosales> Ursinha: any update on reports for triage work?
<arosales> Juju BPs
<arosales> Charm release policy: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charms-release-policy
<arosales> and
<arosales> Charm Unit test: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-unit-tests
<arosales> SpamapS: I think you have made some progress on the release policy correct?
<Ursinha> arosales, no updates now, maybe next week
<arosales> m_3: I think you have also made some progressing on unit testing
<arosales> Ursinha: ok, thanks
<arosales> Openstack Juju Charms Next steps
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-charms
<arosales> adam_g: how are the openstack charms?
<SpamapS> arosales: the release policy was merged and is part of the official documentation for juju now
<SpamapS> arosales: implementing it is another story. :)
<adam_g> arosales: they've been in sync with upstream development, but those TODOs are still TODO.
<arosales> SpamapS: so 0% still valid for release policy
<SpamapS> adam_g: we need to work on getting all of the actual openstack charms into the charm store, and having the CI tests running *off of those*
<arosales> adam_g: ok, thanks
<arosales> cloud-init
<adam_g> SpamapS: im not sure that'll work, but we'll talk
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-cloud-init-utils - smoser?
<SpamapS> arosales: no I marked one of them DONE because the release policy is "done"
<arosales> not a top priority, but at 0% so thought I would bring it up here
<SpamapS> adam_g: if that won't work, then we should just dismantle the charm store. ;)
<arosales> SpamapS: ok, thanks
<smoser> arosales, i'll update that today.
<arosales> smoser: ok thanks
<arosales> and one last one for rbasak:
<adam_g> SpamapS: they are forks of the upstream charm store charms, with lots of special sauce added for our environment. isn't that the point?
<arosales> perhaps you can also comment smoser
<SpamapS> adam_g: no, forking == fail
<adam_g> adam_g: actively synced forks, i might add
<arosales> apt
<adam_g> er
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-apt-improvements
<adam_g> SpamapS: lets talk later
<SpamapS> adam_g: yeah we will
<arosales> apt BP also at 0%, but I know there is a spec out for review.
<rbasak> I think we've more or less reached consensus on the broad plans for the apt improvements inside Ubuntu
<rbasak> So now I need to get back to full steam ahead on testing my PoC, and on turning the current productions into something that is production ready
<arosales> rbasak: good to hear, could you also follow up on the ARM BPs mentioned above?
<rbasak> Sorry I was late to the meeting. I'll check the logs when they're published
<arosales> rbasak: ok, thanks
<arosales> utlemming: those are the 0% ones that I wanted to bring up. I realize some 0% is valid as we are working on the items but they can't be marked as done just yet.
<arosales> utlemming: back to you
<utlemming> #action everyone update their blueprint status
<meetingology> ACTION: everyone update their blueprint status
<utlemming> #topic Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<utlemming> daviey: care to comment on the bug status?
<utlemming> okay, moving on then....
<utlemming> #topic 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
<utlemming> jamespage and smoser: how goes 12.04.1
<arosales> utlemming: can we can come back to the bugs after 12.04.1 udpate
<rbasak> I added a couple of bugs for tracking
<smoser> hm.. well, there is plenty of work todo.
<utlemming> arosales: yes sir
<smoser> http://people.canonical.com/~jamespage/server-sru/precise-sru.html
<jamespage> http://people.canonical.com/~jamespage/server-sru/precise-sru.html
<jamespage> snap
 * jamespage lets smoser lead
<rbasak> or at least I tried to add them. What is required to get bugs into the tracker?
<smoser> well, given that list there, anything targetted, we really need to get cracking on
<Daviey> utlemming: sorry, had a brown out.
<smoser> juju and maas have a lot, that we're expecting an update for. those are the single largest things.
<smoser> but if your name is on osomething there, or you think you can help, please take a bug and fix it.
<smoser> ask someone to review and / or upload.
<utlemming> Daviey: that was me yesterday...we'll come back to you after the current topic :)
<Daviey> RE: maas.. currently in discussions how to do this.. it is making progress.
<SpamapS> smoser: note that most of juju's were moved to precise-updates
<smoser> jamespage, do you have any more "GET IT DONE!" like comments?
<jamespage> smoser, I had a few specific bugs I would like to raise
<smoser> please do.
<jamespage> bug 858867
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 858867 in cobbler (Ubuntu Quantal) "XMLRPC allows unauthed users access to various methods (which it shouldn't) " [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/858867
<SpamapS> there's a security upload coming for juju, and then one more upload to proposed to fix a few of the more important things for 12.04.1
<jamespage> this one has been kicked around for a while; as cobbler does not form part of our provisioning solution going forward should we really care about this for 12.04.1
<jamespage> bug 988819 we just agreed to re-consider the approach
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 988819 in mod-proxy-html (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] wrong path to libxml2.so.2 in mod_security - broken by multiarch enabled libraries" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/988819
<SpamapS> jamespage: err.. maas in 12.04 needs it
<smoser> for 858867, i had asked roaksoax to ask upstream about this.
<jamespage> SpamapS, that really depends on '<Daviey> RE: maas.. currently in discussions how to do this.. it is making progress.'
<zul> bug #990162 is a new one on the radar as well
<smoser> we really should ask upstream what they recommend.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990162 in The Eilt project "armhf version is unusable -- task switches will cause sigsegv's" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990162
<jamespage> and bug 975473
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 975473 in MAAS "eliminate cobbler code copy" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975473
<roaksoax>   smoser sorry i got delayed with maas stuff, i'll take care of it today
<SpamapS> ah
<rbasak> zul: 990162 is fixed in Quantal I hear? Is that confirmed?
<roaksoax> jamespage: that is in progress, we might have something by EoW... but for quantal
<zul> rbasak: yeah
<roaksoax> (maas-provision / cobbler-copy)
<jamespage> I guess targets for 12.04.1 still need to be agreed then.
<zul> rbasak: quantal has a newer version, but the fix should be backported to precise
<jamespage> zul, it would be good to get that webob SRU nailed as well.
 * rbasak marks it as Fix Released in Quantal
<zul> jamespage: agreed ill spend some time on it tomorrow
<jamespage> other than that I would say that we have already pushed through a large number of SRU's
<Daviey> \o/
<jamespage> well done!
<arosales> nice :-)
<rbasak> james_w: which one?
<utlemming> okay, back Daviey
<utlemming> #topic Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<arosales> bugs :-)
<Daviey> So.. the page is empty for me.. it was working :)
<arosales> so we are still working on bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<Daviey> I'll investigate that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Quantal) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> hallyn: I saw a fix for that though . .  .
<hallyn> stgraber was going to bring that up at the next foundations mt
<hallyn> mtg
<arosales> hallyn: ok, thanks.
<Daviey> super
<arosales> bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023066
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023066 in quantum (Ubuntu) "python-quantum fails to install due to python syntax errors" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> jamespage: I saw you take an initial look
<adam_g> arosales: i fixed that quantum thing upstream, it should be fixed with the next quantum upload (this week?)
<jamespage> adam_g is on it
<Daviey> zul / adam_g: bug 1020313
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020313 in horizon (Ubuntu) "openstack-dashboard hijacks the web root" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020313
<arosales> adam_g: thanks
<zul> on it
<Daviey> bug 844995 .. volunteer ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 844995 in python-couchdb (Ubuntu) "Drop support for couchdb related packages" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/844995
<Daviey> shouldn't be super complicated
<jamespage> note that touches kombu as well
<zul> eh?
<jamespage> to drop python-couchdb to universe we have to drop support from kombu
<arosales> bug 1024408 also needs a volunteer :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1024408 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Quantal installs do not include software-properties-common by default" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024408
<Daviey> arosales: if nobody else takes that, i'll have it
 * Daviey takes it
<Daviey> nobody want to sign up to, bug 844995 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 844995 in python-couchdb (Ubuntu) "Drop support for couchdb related packages" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/844995
<rbasak> Ooh, I was going to propose that we did that
<Daviey> rbasak: do you want it? :)
<rbasak> Go on then
<jamespage> \o/
<Daviey> rbasak: wait, which one do you want?
<Daviey> both? :)
<roaksoax> FYI maas related MRI's are not being tracked on the report
<rbasak> 1024408
<roaksoax> err MIR
<jamespage> roaksoax, please let me know which bugs and packages - I'll get it sorted
<Daviey> jamespage: see the c-m report
<Daviey> jamespage: it just needs bug subscriptions to be added
<jamespage> Daviey, yeah - I know
<Daviey> err, PACKAGE bug subscriptions
<Daviey> super
<Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<roaksoax> jamespage: bug #1020267
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020267 in python-pytyrant (Ubuntu) "[MIR] celery, pyparsing, python-cl, python-gevent, python-mailer, python-pytyrant, python-redis" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020267
<roaksoax> bug #1024086
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1024086 in python-tx-tftp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-tx-tftp" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024086
<roaksoax> bug #1020278
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020278 in raphael (Ubuntu) "[MIR] raphael" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020278
<roaksoax> bug #1020273
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020273 in yui3 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] yui3" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020273
<roaksoax> jamespage: ^^
<jamespage> roaksoax, ta - doing now
<Daviey> lets move on..
<Daviey> thanks all
<utlemming> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
<utlemming> Any one have any events?
<arosales> OSCON this week
<arosales> robbiew, m_3, jcastro, and jimbaker all doing presentations.
<utlemming> Any others?
<arosales> Cloud Open coming up next  at the end of August.
<utlemming> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<utlemming> hggdh: Do you have anything interesting for us this week?
<hggdh> not really, apart from the surprise we got on arm testing
<hggdh> there are no usable images for server...
<utlemming> do you have a bug number?
<hggdh> no bug; the last update on server image was on June 27th, so I believe this is known
<hggdh> and may be part of the move to a live system as opposed to preinstalled
<utlemming> okay, good to know
<hggdh> I just wish I had been notified of it
<hggdh> ..
<utlemming> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<utlemming> smb: anything of importance this week?
<utlemming> okay, moving on then...
<utlemming> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Just one note from me. highbank support for precise should be landing shortly, in bug 1004011
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1004011 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Precise) "Add support for highbank in flash-kernel" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004011
<Daviey> hmm
<rbasak> One SRU which we mentioned earlier, bug 990162 - ahs3 is working on a backport for this
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990162 in python-greenlet (Ubuntu Precise) "armhf version is unusable -- task switches will cause sigsegv's" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990162
<rbasak> Nothing else to report. Any questions for me?
<utlemming> #topic Open Discussion
<utlemming> Any one having anything else to add?
<Daviey> hggdh: for being out of context.. the ARM server images are unrelated to squashfs switch.. There is an unrelated issue, which is being blocked on the switch, as they are anticipating more issues.
<Daviey> hggdh: what is worrying, is that it took 2 weeks for QA to notice :P
<jamespage> Daviey, not automated testing yet I guess :-)
<utlemming> Daviey: should we have some follow up on this issue then?
<Daviey> well, it's in hand AIUI
<utlemming> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
 * Daviey waits for the suprise.
<Daviey> same time, same place?
<utlemming> July 24th 2012, 1600 UTC right here
<utlemming> util we virtual meet again....
<utlemming> #endmeeting
<arosales> thanks for chairing utlemming
 * SpamapS got split off w/ meetingology :-P
<jokrebel> Hi
<Lasall> hi there ;)
<hexe25> hi
<Lasall> hi hexe25
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses: huats xdatap1 itnet7 ping
<xdatap1> here we are
<czajkowski> who is charing
<czajkowski> don't all jump up at once :)
<xdatap1> :)
<huats> good night everyone
<huats> sorry I am late
<itnet7> I can't sorry
<czajkowski> itnet7: nods
<xdatap1> huats, could you chair please?
<SergioMeneses> here I am... good night guys
<huats> czajkowski:  I can
<huats> even if I am a bit rusty with the commands
<xdatap1> huats, thanks dude!
<itnet7> thanks huats \o/
<czajkowski> yay
<huats> ok
<huats> #startmeeting Loco Council 2012 07 12
<meetingology> huats: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<huats> #chair huats
<njin> hallo everybody
<huats> #topic Germany reapproval
<czajkowski> utlemming: can you please end your last meeting
<Fuchs> (not sure if the bot got that right, since it err'd on your first command. Already a meeting running?)
<huats> yep I have just realized that
<MarkusH> hey guys. Sorry for being late. I was stuck in traffic.
<czajkowski> yup trying to kill that meeting
<toddy> no problem, MarkusH :)
<czajkowski> huats: just carry on
<huats> ok never mind for the bot
<huats> ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<huats> We have a busy meeting !
<toddy> hi huats
<huats> 'LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GermanTeamReApprovalApplication2012
<huats> Is there anyone from Germany ?
<toddy> hee are some of the german loco men and women
<Lasall> o/
<toddy> o/
<Fuchs> huats: from the german LoCo: yes, a few.
 * tomx3 <-- here for example
<svij> o/
<Fuchs> o/
<czajkowski> welcome folks
<SergioMeneses> hello ubuntu-germany
<huats> ok guys
<czajkowski> thanks for coming
<huats> thanks for coming
<njin> great Ubuntu-de
<huats> Is there anyone who want to speak ? to explain us the main topics ?
<tomx3> and another german guy
<huats> or the main points from your reapproval ?
<toddy> yes I can, huats
<SergioMeneses> where are the german guys? :)
<hexe25> and another german woman :)
<MarkusH> o/
<apollo13> SergioMeneses: we are waiting for toddy to speak ;)
<huats> toddy: than go ahead :)
<czajkowski> nice wiki page
<march> Thanks. :)
<Lasall> welcome
<toddy> thank you czajkowski
<SergioMeneses> ok ok :=)
<jokrebel> o/
<toddy> This year we are a little bit late with our application. Sorry for that.
<czajkowski> toddy: thats fine
<SergioMeneses> toddy, don't worry
<czajkowski> so tell is about your loco, how things are done
<toddy> we have a big loco with over 200 people in the group of the loco
<toddy> and any more that are not organze in the loco group
<toddy> we habe many groups (over 20) in Germany with have local meetings
<czajkowski> nods
<huats> impressive
<toddy> we have every year a big meeting, this year in Berlin
<toddy> the ubucon
<czajkowski> well done on useing the LTP http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-de-locoteam/events/history
<toddy> On LinuxTag in Berlin we have made a nice Ubuntu Lounge with couches and we have had the biggest booth of all projects.
<czajkowski> toddy: how do you organise you taking part?  does everyone get involved ?
<huats> do you have any idea of the attendance of the ubucon ?
<toddy> everybody can be a member in one of the groups of the locoteam
<czajkowski> toddy: can you explain a bit more about the groups
<toddy> and the groups are member of the locoteam (the orga in lanchpad)
<SergioMeneses> toddy, could you tell us more about ubuntu Deutschland e.V.?
<toddy> huats: 200 till 250 people are every year at the ubucon
<czajkowski> or if anyone else wants to talk please do
<toddy> in berlin maybe more
<SergioMeneses> 250 people!!! great
<xdatap1> well done
<itnet7> Great work
<huats> great
<toddy> czajkowski: there are different groups the ops of ubuntu-de (channel on freenode), the german portal ubuntuusers.de
<Fuchs> czajkowski: the e.V. is a "eingetragener Verein", an organisational unit which helps you a lot in germany with legal, financial or logistical issues.
<apollo13> SergioMeneses: what do you want to know about the e.V. -- it's mainly a legal base for out stuff
<apollo13> our*
<toddy> communtu, a built system for ubuntu, czajkowski
<Fuchs> czajkowski: basically, if you want to have such a big organisation in germany you better register one of those, since else it's quite hard to manage. It is a legal entity and therefore also a contact point.
<huats> I have another question : (2 actually) is juliux still involved ? and how have you done the ubuntu-eu transition ?
<SergioMeneses> apollo13, it is only for support?
<czajkowski> Fuchs: oh interesting
<apollo13> SergioMeneses: no the e.V. is just for legal stuff, you can't do anything without it in germany
<czajkowski> thanks for explaining
<toddy> huats: yes juliux is still involved
<toddy> huats: he is not here, couse he is at holiday
<apollo13> huats: transistion from what to where, ubuntu-eu still exists ;)
<huats> toddy: please say hi to him :)
<apollo13> if you mean the server structure
<toddy> huats: I will do that :)
<huats> apollo13: that is what I meant :)
<huats> since we had a  lot of team complaining with that
<huats> :)
<SergioMeneses> apollo13, Fuchs great
<apollo13> SergioMeneses: for support there is ubuntuusers.de and mailinglists, that's also the reason why the page of the e.V. is pretty empty
<SergioMeneses> apollo13, I see
<Fuchs> (and the #ubuntu-de channel namespace)
<czajkowski> ok, one last question, any issues you've had in the last 2 years and antying else we should know about ?
<apollo13> issues? just that linux-mint people think an ubuntu forum is the perfect place to ask about mint issues -_- *scnr*
<toddy> :D
<MarkusH> :D
<Lasall> hehe
<svij> :D
<itnet7> ;-)
<SergioMeneses> apollo13, jaja
<tomx3> We have had problems to get ubuntu-cds ;-)
<czajkowski> *grin*
<czajkowski> tomx3: in what way ?
<toddy> yes, tomx3 that is correct
<SergioMeneses> like what?
<toddy> we have order loco-cds and we didn't get this cds
<tomx3> czajkowski: juliux said that he has not got an answer to his order
<czajkowski> but shipit people mailed recently and chased up on it, did you reply
<toddy> and I have order too and I didn't get one cd
<czajkowski> who is the team contact ?
<czajkowski> and did they request it
<toddy> juliux and me
<czajkowski> hmm ok
<czajkowski> toddy: can you please email shipit after the meeting and cc the loco council and we will chase up on it
<czajkowski> I asked teams to do this last meeting also, but have not heard from them
<czajkowski> I've no further questions
<toddy> yes, i can do that, czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> am ready to vote.
<huats> ready to vote too
<SergioMeneses> ready
<xdatap1> ready
<itnet7> ready
<czajkowski> ok as the bot is not working
<JoseeAntonioR> czajkowski: wait
<czajkowski> please only coouncil members vote
<JoseeAntonioR> I can fix that, I think
<huats> +1
<czajkowski> JoseeAntonioR: you can kill the last meeting ?
<czajkowski> +1
<JoseeAntonioR> yeah
<czajkowski> well done folks and keep up the good work
<JoseeAntonioR> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 17 20:26:06 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-17-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-17-16.01.html
<huats> JoseeAntonioR: thanks !
<JoseeAntonioR> np
<SergioMeneses> JoseeAntonioR, excellent!
<huats> #startmeeting Loco Council 2012 07 12
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 17 20:26:25 2012 UTC.  The chair is huats. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Loco Council 2012 07 12 Meeting | Current topic:
<huats> 'LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GermanTeamReApprovalApplication2012
<huats> ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GermanTeamReApprovalApplication2012
<huats> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GermanTeamReApprovalApplication2012
<JoseeAntonioR> huats: it won't reply
<huats> nevermind
<czajkowski> ok lets vote again
<huats> #vote Ubuntu-de reapproval
<meetingology> Please vote on: Ubuntu-de reapproval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<SergioMeneses> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from SergioMeneses
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<xdatap1> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xdatap1
<huats> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Ubuntu-de reapproval
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<huats> Great !
<czajkowski> well done folks
<huats> congratulations ubuntu-de !
<Lasall> \o/
<SergioMeneses> congratulations ubuntu-germany
<apollo13> thx :)
<toddy> thank you for your votes :)
<march> Thanks. :)
<mfm> yay!
<SergioMeneses> apollo13, Fuchs could you send me more information about that project?
<hexe25> thx :)
<huats> #commands
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<itnet7> Congrats!
<Fuchs> SergioMeneses: which one, sorry?
<Fuchs> And yes, thanks a lot :)
<huats> Next Ubuntu Peru
<MarkusH> yeha :)
<SergioMeneses> Fuchs, Deutschland e.V
<apollo13> SergioMeneses: ubuntuusers.de? what are you intrested in?
<MarkusH> thanks a lot
<SergioMeneses> apollo13, âââ
<huats> They asked us to go next because are in a hurry
<JoseeAntonioR> huats: do "#voters czajkowski itnet7 SergioMeneses xdatap1"
<huats> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeruvianTeam/ReapprovalApplication2012
<Fuchs> SergioMeneses: I will get someone involved to do so, yes. Mind a short query so we don't disturb here?
<huats> #voters czajkowski itnet7 SergioMeneses xdatap1
<meetingology> Current voters: SergioMeneses czajkowski itnet7 xdatap1
<SergioMeneses> Fuchs, ok
<huats> JoseeAntonioR: thanks
<JoseeAntonioR> oh, and #voters huats or yoou won't be able to vote
<JoseeAntonioR> np
<huats> #voters czajkowski itnet7 SergioMeneses xdatap1 huats
<meetingology> Current voters: SergioMeneses czajkowski huats itnet7 xdatap1
<huats> so is there anyone from ubuntu-pe ?
<JoseeAntonioR> Yeah, it's me
<JoseeAntonioR> Hello, guys! I'm Jose Antonio Rey, and I'm the team contact for Ubuntu-PE. Our Reapproval Application is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeruvianTeam/ReapprovalApplication2012. Any questions you have, please ask them, and I'll gladly answer them.
<czajkowski> JoseeAntonioR: :)
<huats> anyone else ?
<SergioMeneses> hello JoseeAntonioR
<huats> hey JoseeAntonioR
<JoseeAntonioR> hmm, nope, everyone's at work
<czajkowski> yay photos!
<huats> ok
<JoseeAntonioR> :P
<huats> Where is nxvl ???
<JoseeAntonioR> huats: at work
<huats> pfff
<SergioMeneses> huats, working
<SergioMeneses> I guess
<huats> I know he don't want to talk to us
<huats> ;)
<SergioMeneses> huats, jeje
<czajkowski> JoseeAntonioR: thanks for coming, so I was wondering, is there any reason why the loco doesn't use the LTP more ? http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-pe/events/history and is there plans to use it more in the future?
<JoseeAntonioR> czajkowski: Yep, we've stopped a few months ago as we had a problem (I will talk about that later, I think you already know it), and all meetings/events were announced via ML
<JoseeAntonioR> We're re-starting to use it, we have a couple events in there
<czajkowski> JoseeAntonioR: can you elaborate more as to the issues please
<JoseeAntonioR> Sure. A few months ago, I came into Ubuntu-PE, and found out our team was pretty inactive. That was because the team leader stopped working. So, I took initiative and got everyone to work again. In that while, the team was fully inactive except by some people making announcements via the ML and some chit-chat in the IRC channel.
<SergioMeneses> I testified about that!
<JoseeAntonioR> That's why you may find some empty logs in irclogs.ubuntu.com, and, as you said, it seems we've stopped using the LoCo Portal.
<czajkowski> JoseeAntonioR: thanks
<czajkowski> JoseeAntonioR: so how do you plan to get people involved and keep the activity going?
<JoseeAntonioR> czajkowski: well, we've got meetings every month, and we've got a couple activities in the upcoming weeks. When we have talks/booths/conferences/whatever, we announce it via ML and get volunteers to work with us, personally, in getting more people involved with the project, so we keep growing and growing.
<czajkowski> JoseeAntonioR: ok
<JoseeAntonioR> We're also planning on starting a couple Ubuntu Hours, and contacting local FLOSS teams to talk to them about Ubuntu.
<czajkowski> thanks for answering
<SergioMeneses> JoseeAntonioR, I wanna know more about the future goals!
<JoseeAntonioR> Sure! We've got lots of invitations to different events. There is where we're going to help people to get involved with the project. They are presented to Ubuntu, and told to join the LP team and all resources.
<JoseeAntonioR> Once we've done that, we contact them, and start planning what we'll be doing in the meanwhile.
<huats> ok great action !
<JoseeAntonioR> By now, we've got some plans, as getting Ubuntu in local stores. There are PCs with Ubuntu, but the amount is minimal.\
<SergioMeneses> JoseeAntonioR, perfect!
<huats> Ok I think we are ready to vote then !
<huats> #startvote
<JoseeAntonioR> We're also trying to get people involved with translations and development. We offer mentoring if necessary, to get them to reach the member status.
<JoseeAntonioR> Sure
<huats> #vote
<meetingology> Please vote on:
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<huats> +1
<ghosthost> +1
<xdatap1> +1
<czajkowski> +!
<itnet7> +1
<huats> #vote ubuntu-pe reapproval
<meetingology> Please vote on: ubuntu-pe reapproval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<SergioMeneses> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from SergioMeneses
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<xdatap1> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xdatap1
<huats> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: ubuntu-pe reapproval
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<huats> Ubuntu-pe thanks !
<JoseeAntonioR> Thanks, guys!
<itnet7> Great job JoseeAntonioR and Team!!
<SergioMeneses> JoseeAntonioR, congratulations!
<JoseeAntonioR> itnet7: we'll be sure to keep it up.
<huats> for your application and congratulations !
<xdatap1> JoseeAntonioR, well done
<huats> and say hi to nxvl that we miss him !
<SergioMeneses> JoseeAntonioR, and thanks for the boot thing ;)
<itnet7> :-) \o/ awesome!
<JoseeAntonioR> thank you so much guys!
<JoseeAntonioR> SergioMeneses: np!
<JoseeAntonioR> huats: I'll be sure to make it.
<huats> So next is ubuntu Italy !
<huats> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2012
<JoseeAntonioR> I need to run to classes now, see you later guys!
<huats> is there anyone here for ubuntu italy ?
<_Pixel_> o/
<xdatap1> if you're from the Italian team raise your hand
<Gwaihir> hello huats!
<Gwaihir> o/
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: !!
<Dolasilla> o/
<huats> hello Gwaihir !
<Gwaihir> 'evening czajkowski!
<totopalma> o/
<SergioMeneses> Gwaihir, \o
<peppe84> o/
<czajkowski> thanks for coming folks!
<SergioMeneses> hello ubuntu-italian team!
<l3on> hello! :)
<czajkowski> always interesting to see what the team is up to
<huats> thanks for coming !
<huats> so we is about to speak for the team ?
<l3on> o/
<huats> to present your hard work ?
<Gwaihir> huats, that will be me I guess
<Gwaihir> fire any questions you have :-)
<huats> Gwaihir: you are not even living in Italy !!!
<huats> :)
<Gwaihir> yeah... blame on me :-)
<czajkowski> nice #link http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-it/events/history
<huats> I have a question
<huats> youj mention the RAI3
<Gwaihir> huats, sure
<huats> what are your experience with press ?
<huats> and medias ?
<Gwaihir> yeah, that is an old interview
<huats> are you able to communicate on a large scale ?
<Gwaihir> experience is ups and lows
<czajkowski> 27 Ubuntu members :o WOW
<huats> (is t is not a tricky question I am just curious)
<Gwaihir> sometimes we are able to reach big names in the press, sometimes it is harder, but we have some good people trying to reach out them as much as we can
<huats> ok GwaihirI think we are all facing the same difficulties
<Gwaihir> usually for every release we have a release press article that we send out, sometimes it is picked up
<Gwaihir> yeah, I guess it is hard, need to make a lot of good contacts, but it is not easy
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: does the team face any issues as you're rather large ?
<Gwaihir> czajkowski, not really, we are rather large, but the team is well structured
<Gwaihir> we have different working teams that are more or less independent
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: can you tell us about the structure please?
<Gwaihir> so they do not strictly depend on our Council
<jokrebel> bye
<Gwaihir> we have a similar structure to the international community
<Gwaihir> we have a Community Council
<Gwaihir> plus small working teams, specialized in their field
<Gwaihir> a translation team, a doc team, form admins and staff, developers, testers and so on
<Gwaihir> s/form/forum
<czajkowski> nods
<xdatap1> graphical schema of the italian team: http://www.ubuntu-it.org/comunita
<czajkowski> aww that is rather cute
<SergioMeneses> xdatap1, nice
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: Team reports ?
<Gwaihir> they basically sets up themselves as they need to, we just watch other in the beginning
<Gwaihir> czajkowski, ah... we actually are not really good at that
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: :(
<huats> Gwaihir: hum....
<huats> I am so disapointed
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: is that something perhaps the team could work on
<huats> I won't say it aloud since I want to spend nice holidays in italy in 2 weeks
<Gwaihir> we tried to have single teams write small reports and then re-wrote them in the team report page, but didn't work nice
<huats> but you should work on that
<Gwaihir> huats, indeed, we have to
<czajkowski> ok am ready to vote
<xdatap1> i will retrain my vote, being a italian council member
<huats> #vote Ubuntu-it reapproval
<meetingology> Please vote on: Ubuntu-it reapproval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<czajkowski> xdatap1: you need to +  0
<huats> SergioMeneses: your vote ?
<xdatap1> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from xdatap1
<SergioMeneses> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from SergioMeneses
<huats> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Ubuntu-it reapproval
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<huats> Congratulations ubuntu-it !
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: my only thing would be in 2 years time can we see team reports please!
<huats> czajkowski: +1 !
<SergioMeneses> totally agree with czajkowski
<itnet7> Congrats Gwaihir and Ubuntu-it!!
<Gwaihir> czajkowski, sure, we will definitely do better on that!
<l3on> thanks ! :)
<SergioMeneses> and congratulations ubuntu-it
<czajkowski> great
<Gwaihir> thanks LoCo Council!
<czajkowski> thanks you
<huats> So the next team is Russia !
<huats> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RussianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2012
<ghosthost> great!
<huats> Is thre anyone from russia ?
<ghosthost> yes
<Agafonov> o/
<yurau> o/
<Malamut> yes
<huats> Thanks for joining us
<huats> Who will speak to present your activity ?
<SergioMeneses> hello ubuntu russia!
<yurau> Agafonov will
<czajkowski> Agafonov: hey there
<Agafonov> I was workking to geather application, so yes
<huats> Agafonov: great we are listening to you :)
<czajkowski> yay photos make me happy
<huats> are there any points you want to specifically present ?
<czajkowski> #link http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ru/events/history
<Agafonov> please note we are big country and it is really hard to be a loco as a one single team
<Agafonov> so there many teams involved in activity
<czajkowski> Agafonov: ah ok, so do you think the Russian loco would benefit from being broken up into smaller locos like USA for example ?
<yurau> we dont know english )
<SergioMeneses> Agafonov, I like the community numbers, but what is Vkontakte LoCo?
<Malamut> czajkowski: I don't think so
<Agafonov> some are doing things we are really do not know :)
<Agafonov> vkontakte is a big russian social network
<ghosthost> please, don't say I about all of us, yourau :)
<ghosthost> *it
<Agafonov> regarding breakage - there are some teams already in your list
<Agafonov> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ru-loco-spb
<Agafonov> for example
<SergioMeneses> Agafonov, I think so but it is a great number of members
<czajkowski> well it would mean areas that are active and went for approved loco would get stuff like cds and other areas that werent could work wtih approved areas and maybe share resoources
<Agafonov> most are users :)
<Malamut> well, we have some very active teams in some cities, but in general there is not enough active members((
<czajkowski> so what do you see as the issues for the russian loco ?
<Agafonov> not enough *active* members
<czajkowski> ok, and do you have any plans to change this ?
<Agafonov> this is a question of leadership more or less...
<Malamut> czajkowski: one global team to help regional subteams
<Malamut> czajkowski: yes, of cource
<czajkowski> Malamut: nods that is what I think would work
<czajkowski> anything else people want to add
<Malamut> now we are working on our central web resources and some global goals
<Malamut> like Russiian Remix
<huats> sounds good !
<huats> I think we know enough to vote !
<huats> #vote Ubuntu Russia reapproval
<meetingology> Please vote on: Ubuntu Russia reapproval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<xdatap1> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xdatap1
<SergioMeneses> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from SergioMeneses
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<huats> Agafonov: where are team reports btw ?
<huats> czajkowski: your vote ?
<Agafonov> huats: the most valuable question!
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<Agafonov> the issue we have this probles since last reapproval...
<huats> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Ubuntu Russia reapproval
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<huats> So ubuntu-ru congrats
<huats> but please try to work on that
<Agafonov> wow
<Agafonov> thanks!
<huats> it would be really needed for the reapproval in 2 years !
<Malamut> Thanks a lot
<SergioMeneses> congratulations ubuntu russian team
<huats> (we would have a close look at that)
<xdatap1> congratulations guys
<Malamut> we'll try to do our best
<huats> It is important for you to share your great work with the rest of the world :)
<Agafonov> huats: I think we have some powers now!!!
<itnet7> Good job Ubuntu-ru Thanks for working on it for the future!!
<huats> I think it is it !
<ghosthost> thank you
<huats> Nothing else on the agenda !
<huats> Thanks everyone for joining us !
<SergioMeneses> huats, no
<SergioMeneses> :D
<huats> no ?
<xdatap1> thanks everyone
<xdatap1> good night
<Agafonov> thanks again!
<huats> See you all next month !
<Fuchs> nighty night :)
<SergioMeneses> ok guys tanks for coming
<SergioMeneses> I see you
<huats> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 17 21:07:51 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-17-20.26.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-17-20.26.html
<l3on> bye! :)
<Seveas>  âââââââââââââââââââââ
<Seveas> (oops, wrong channel)
<march> n8 :)
<kitties> Those waiting for the meeting - the time has mysteriously changed to the 18th.
<kitties> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<oldos2er> d'oh!
<wildmanne39> I thought today was the 18th
<JoseAntonioR> #voters everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-18
<balloons> aloha
<balloons> #startmeeting ubuntu QA
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 18 14:10:23 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> who all is about?
<phillw> o/
<balloons> phillw,  I think this will be short and sweet
<phillw> yup :)
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<balloons> Next week we'll have the alpha 3 milestone testing. Should be a good week, and the images are in a good state going in to the week. I, knock on wood, don't see us needing a ton of respins
<balloons> Because we've reached the point in the cycle where features are landing (yay!), you can expect more testing of applications coming soon. Unity testing will be happening again this cycle among other things
<balloons> I also was talking with the u+1 team and the folks running the dev version of ubuntu as there daily machine about expanding the package tracker to help their workflow with triaging problems, bug reports, and watching critical packages
<balloons> The basic idea was to hand select some packages, and add some basic smoke testing for them. We'd monitor the versions as they update in the archive and we can keep a status on when things break and what bugs where found, etc
<balloons> I hope to show an example and get more feedback soon
<balloons> that's it from me
<balloons> questions?
<phillw> nope
<balloons> alright
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavors
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Flavors
<balloons> so phillw, updates from lubuntu?
<phillw> bug 1007394 is still an issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1007394 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "Quantal daily fails to complete installation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007394
<phillw> currently awaiting one of the ppc testers to try something for the devs.
<phillw> lack of firefox in ppc has been fixed.
<phillw> nothing else to report, testing is going well on the whole.
<balloons> yay!
<balloons> browsing on ff is restorede
<balloons> did you see the plant article phillw on ppc?
<phillw> no, do you have a link?
<balloons> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/benmcollins13/ubuntu/~3/-IS64CHats0/community-conundrum-powerpc.html
<phillw> thanks
<balloons> np.. not sure if you know who Ben is or not
<balloons> regardless, his lament is on target
<phillw> well, provided their remains a kernel available, lubuntu are pretty committed to have a ppc release.
<phillw> *there*
<balloons> yep, it's a good thing
<balloons> ok, any other flavors about willing to share an update?
<phillw> seems like we're the last hope for them.
<astraljava> balloons: Not really, I've been really badly out of the loop recently... Sorry.
<balloons> astraljava, that's ok -- how's alpha 3 looking for you?
<balloons> I know it's hard to believe it's coming already
<balloons> alright, so let's finish up
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu QA Meeting | Current topic:  Other topics
<balloons> anything else to discuss anyone?
<astraljava> We're supposedly having that discussion today, but I really don't know how Xubuntu is at the moment.
 * astraljava frowns
<phillw> balloons: I replied to the plant article with a request for testers :)
<balloons> phillw, hopefully it helps ppc users, and lubunutu
<balloons> astraljava, :-( sorry to hear. I'm sure it will get sorted out
<balloons> Well, I think that wraps everything up
<balloons> thanks for attending!
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 18 14:41:31 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-18-14.10.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-18-14.10.html
<phillw> thanks for chairing balloons
 * stgraber waves
<infinity> o/
<ev> hi
<barry> o/
<ogra_> moo
<cjwatson> hi.  doko and xnox are on holiday, slangasek is at the UEFI plugfest; anyone else I've forgotten who's away?
<ogra_> raise your hand if you are :)
<MrChrisDruif> =)
<MrChrisDruif> o/
<jodh> o/
<cjwatson> http://www.tomscott.com/cliff/
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 18 15:02:51 2012 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ogra_> is that nafallo ?
<cjwatson> dunno :)
<cjwatson> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<ogra_> :)
<cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e barry bdmurray cjwatson ev infinity jodh ogra stgraber)
<cjwatson> stgraber cjwatson ogra barry jodh bdmurray ev infinity
<stgraber> I win!
 * infinity naps.
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Discussed implementation of set_config_item and clear_config_item in the LXC API.
<cjwatson> sorry if I forgot anyone, directory is down for me which of course means I have no idea who's on this team :-P
<stgraber>  - Update python binding for these two, waiting for get_keys() to then work on the network part of the python module.
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Extended IPv6 testing to include basic NetworkManager testing.
<stgraber>  - Discovered NetworkManager doesn't support veth devices and so wouldn't run in a container. Wrote a patch, submitted to cyphermox for inclusion.
<stgraber> - Installer
<stgraber>  - Tested open-iscsi, updated partman-iscsi to work with the new open-iscsi.
<stgraber> - 12.04.1
<stgraber>  - 12.04.1 team meeting and minutes
<stgraber>  - Went through all the targeted/milestoned bugs for 12.04.1, assigned a bunch to ~canonical-foundations, updated the status for some others.
<stgraber>  - Verified a bunch of SRUs.
<stgraber>  - Uploaded new ubiquity to precise-proposed.
<stgraber>  - Updated sru-report to properly deal with verification-done-$release
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Reviewed change to re-introduce slapd-smbk5pwd (built from openldap) as heimdal-dev is already a build-dep and that package is important for Zentyal.
<stgraber>  - Some queuebot work, trying to make the new version more stable (currently running in production) and ready for the new features discussed at UDS
<stgraber>  - Some ARB app review, the app showdown made the ARB New queue reach 140 packages... Still 50 to review...
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Finish reviewing/triaging ppp and libnl-3 bugs, then start looking at SRUs for the network packages.
<stgraber>  - Go through the pending-sru and help for these that are stuck on verification-needed
<stgraber> (DONE)
<cjwatson> Holiday on Tuesday.
<cjwatson> Launchpad and archive administration:
<cjwatson>  * Fixed showing failed asynchronous copies in the PPA UI (bug 812869), so it should be possible to make PPA copies asynchronous soon.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 812869 in Launchpad itself "Failed PackageCopyJobs should show up on the PPA page somehow" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/812869
<cjwatson>  * Fixed a couple of bugs in PackageDiff privacy (bug 1023986, bug 1025515).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023986 in Launchpad itself ""Available diffs" are not accessible when publishing private packages via copyPackage() " [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023986
<cjwatson>  * Experimental freeze to battle-test new queue API client.  Failed with a timeout after a couple of days, so we can work on that and try again later.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025515 in Launchpad itself "LP diffs are being linked at http://lplibrarian-private-download.internal:8000" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025515
<cjwatson>  * Posted branch to remove duplicates from ArchivePermission (bug 1025441).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025441 in Launchpad itself "Please clean up the duplicates from archivepermission" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025441
<cjwatson>  * Adjusted sru-report to use a separate launchpadlib cache so that it doesn't break so often.
<cjwatson>  * Some progress on arranging for per-pocket queue admin permissions, but still incomplete and may need a bit more database schema work.
<cjwatson> Installer:
<cjwatson>  * Fixed bug 1023036, which caused intermittent failures in automatic tests (and took ages to reproduce).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023036 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Error on /usr/share/ubiquity/plugininstall.py", line 1687, affecting desktop images (preseeded install)" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023036
<cjwatson>  * Fixed a couple of encrypted swap handling bugs (bug 1024343, bug 989279).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1024343 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Quantal desktop encrypted home unable to install due to ubi-usersetup failing with exit code 1" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024343
<cjwatson> Other:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 989279 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubiquity fails to create encrypted home directory when no swap if configured" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989279
<cjwatson>  * Various rebuilds for new imagemagick ABI.
<cjwatson>  * SRU for bug 970638 in psmisc.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 970638 in psmisc (Ubuntu Precise) "killall can't kill processes with names >15 bytes long (Ubuntu 12.04)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/970638
<cjwatson>  * Made various things pass pep8(1).
<cjwatson> ..
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * omap4 desktop image fixes (flash-kernel, installer etc)
<ogra_> * ac100 desktop image fixes (ac100-tarball-installer, flash-kernel etc)
<ogra_> * research why server preinstalled didnt build (thanks to slangasek for helping)
<ogra_> * package new nvidia-tegra driver
<ogra_> * test new tegra kernel
<ogra_> * some work on foundations-q-hwpack-integration
<ogra_> * flash-kernel SRUs
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * more work on foundations-q-hwpack-integration
<ogra_> * prepare for QA sprint
<ogra_> * switch on server alternate builds for omap4
<ogra_> * research netinst omap4 breakage
<ogra_> ..
<barry> short week due to holiday; continued working on the xapian py3 port using cython, hit some roadblocks so progress has slowed; worked on the py27 for lucid ppa, trying to fix the ctypes crash so the lp folks can start to use it; patch piloted: lengthy review of upmgr branch, investigated and eventually sync'd from unstable, py32.  done.
<jodh> * misc: Holiday last week.
<jodh> * boot/upstart: Stateful re-exec progress continues:
<jodh>   - Created D-Bus branch with new public API to recreate a D-Bus
<jodh>     connection from a file descriptor (required for stateful re-exec):
<jodh>     lp:~jamesodhunt/dbus/create-connection-from-fd
<jodh>     Needs testing (once Upstart catches up) and ideally a way to
<jodh>     query a connections address to make usage easier.
<jodh>   - Currently working on the JSON-encoding of blocked objects for Upstart.
<jodh> â 
<infinity> Tetris?
<jodh> braille
<jodh> can't you feel it?
<infinity> *groan*
<bdmurray> wrote a bug pattern for bug 1023055
<bdmurray> uploaded a rebuilt ubuntu-release-upgrader to fix bug 1023055
<bdmurray> uploaded of kerneloops to quantal turning it on
<bdmurray> apport upload to precise-proposed to collect /etc/default/grub - bug 1006633
<barry> owww
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023055 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Quantal) "do-release-upgrade crashed with ImportError in /usr/lib/ubuntu-release-upgrader/check-new-release: No module named DistUpgrade.DistUpgradeVersion" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023055
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006633 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "should collect /etc/default/grub from package install failures due to update-grub failing" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1006633
<bdmurray> modified search-recent-package-bugs-for-spikes to use urllib and work for any team
<bdmurray> added search-recent-package-bugs-for-spikes to ubuntu-reports
<bdmurray> arsenal modification to collect-bug-data to filter by days-in-importance
<bdmurray> setup of reopened, recent-triaged, recent-confirmed and recently set to high or critical bug tasks reports on cranberry using arsenal
<cjwatson> barry: any roadblocks I can assist with beyond the conversation we had the other day?
<bdmurray> modified lpltk to deal with bug tasks that don't have date_ for a status
<bdmurray> modified lpltk to be able to filter on the date the importance of a bug was set
<bdmurray> modified sru-report to sort by days package has been out
<bdmurray> sru-report: make bugs golden colored if they have comments since being uploaded
<bdmurray> reported launchpad bug 1023592 regarding missing date_ transition data
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023592 in Launchpad itself "opening a new with a status of In Progess does not set date_in_progress" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023592
<bdmurray> done
<barry> cjwatson: perhaps we can chat after this meeting
<cjwatson> bdmurray: recent sru-report changes are pretty handy, thanks
<cjwatson> barry: sure
<ev> - Short week; holiday on Monday.
<ev> - Implemented the recoverable errors API and Martin uploaded it to Quantal.
<ev>   Just need to adequately document it now and open up daisy.ubuntu.com to
<ev>   receive these reports.
<ev> - Sat down with Matthew and walked through the http://errors.ubuntu.com UI,
<ev>   identifying some design problems.
<ev>   - We now show 6 months worth of data on the average errors per day graph.
<ev>     The graph itself now lets you zoom in on a particular area and uses the
<ev>     secondary color scheme design has been working on.
<ev>   - The erroneous '(not' entries are no longer added to the Last Seen field (I
<ev>     still need to clear the existing ones).
<ev>   - The navigation now shares the site navigation from qa.ubuntu.com. I need
<ev>     to coordinate getting Errors linked to from there as well.
<ev>   - I've written code to put individual lines for each Ubuntu release on the
<ev>     average errors per day graph. I have a pending RT for deploying this.
<ev>   - Per Seb's request, we can now display just Ubuntu sources for the Last
<ev>     Seen column on the front page. I'm putting together an RT for deploying
<ev>     this change.
<ev>   - The individual problem pages have been reworked with clearer titles
<ev>     and formatting. There's now a graph at the top of the page showing the
<ev>     frequency over time this issue has been affecting Ubuntu.
<ev>   - The individual instance pages now use the expanders from Launchpad to
<ev>     autohide long fields, very much matching the Apport UI. The stack trace is
<ev>     still shown by default though.
<ev> - Started implementing the rest of the compiz changes for error reports from
<ev>   application hangs. I've also asked the compiz guys to review the proposed
<ev>   UI, but haven't heard anything back yet.
<ev> - Testing what I hope are the final round of USB disks for the shop.
<ev> (done)
<jodh> ev: so.. Max is back on form eh? :)
<infinity> * DebConf (last week)
<infinity>  - Attended lots of talks, had lots of hallway conversations, etc
<infinity>  - Worked on a plan for saner (e)glibc maintenance in Debian/Ubuntu
<infinity> * Merges, merges, merges
<infinity>  - A reminder/tip for those of us who are DDs: if we're carrying an
<infinity>    Ubuntu delta for RC bugs, NMU them into Debian, save yourself some
<infinity>    pain, and if we're carrying non-RC deltas on orphaned packages, do
<infinity>    a QA upload, and stop merging the same one-line fix every two weeks
<infinity> * Rebootstrapped GHC and gnat-4.6 on armel, and rebuilt a mess of
<infinity>   stuff to reduce the FTBFS list for armel
<infinity> * Fixed firefox and thunderbird compile options on armel and armhf
<infinity> * Rebootstrapped sbcl on powerpc
<infinity> * Lots of SRU work, including a bunch of kernel SRUS
<infinity> * Upcoming: Really working on britney2 this week, no, honest!
<infinity> â¡â ¼â §â ³â â  â Looks like Tetris to me.
<infinity> Guess that needs some spaces.
<infinity> â¡ â ¼ â § â ³ â  â 
<ev> jodh: yup :)
<ev> well, for the moment
<cjwatson> ah, that's everyone, great
<cjwatson> #topic bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: bugs
<cjwatson> stgraber said he wanted to talk about .1 bits
<stgraber> cjwatson: "import random; team = [person.name for person in lp.people['canonical-foundations'].participants]; random.shuffle(team); print(team)" (sadly accessing the IRC nicks seems a bit broken in the API...)
<stgraber> yep, I have a pretty long list of foundation related bugs that are targeted for 12.04.1
<stgraber> Full bug list can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
<stgraber> I did a quick pass on things that are either "maintained" by the team or are of interest to the team, the list is pretty long.
<stgraber> I excluded any bug that's "fix commited" (in -proposed) or "in progress" (because it's waiting in the queue):
<stgraber> Storage related: bug 969384, bug 978012, bug 942106, bug 1012946, bug 957494, bug 968074, bug 1002357, bug 1017407, bug 1022915, bug 1009973
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 969384 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "mdadm --detail --scan segfaults during update-initramfs" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969384
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 978012 in e2fsprogs (Ubuntu Precise) "Please SRU micro bug fix release of e2fsprogs 1.42.4-3ubuntu1 (main) from Quantal (main)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978012
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942106 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "software raid doesn't assemble before mount on boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942106
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1012946 in parted (Ubuntu Precise) "dm-part-sync.patch breaks creating multiple partitions on a LVM volume" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012946
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 957494 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "Missing added utility 'mdmon'" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/957494
<stgraber> right, need to split by group of 5, forgot about that...
<stgraber> bug 968074, bug 1002357, bug 1017407, bug 1022915, bug 1009973
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 968074 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "Partitionable raid ignored by 65-mdadm-blkid.rules" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968074
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1002357 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "sort out udev rules madness (3 editions installed into 4 files)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1002357
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017407 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "should copy /etc/udev/ rule if available" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017407
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022915 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "mdadm in precise does not allow internal bitmap on version 1.2 arrays" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1009973 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "SRU upstream bugfix micro point release 3.2.5" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1009973
<infinity> stgraber: I'm working with xnox to get a sanely-reviewed e2fsprogs update in.
<cjwatson> stgraber: person.irc_nicknames[0].nickname works fine except that doko hasn't set one
<infinity> stgraber: And mdadm is in the queue, which should address some of those bugs (but not sure how many), and may also need some iterations before it can be accepted.
<stgraber> yeah, there's a crazy amount of mdadm bugs targeted to the point release and I know mdadm was already rejected once from the queue
<infinity> stgraber: With him frolicking at the Olympics and such, one of us might need to take up the banner there.
<bdmurray> s/banner/torch/
<ogra_> its only volleyball, no ?
 * ogra_ doubts that will keep him busy 24/7
<infinity> ogra_: He's on vacation. :P
<ogra_> oh, k
<ogra_> heh
<stgraber> at least one of the mdadm bugs is critical so would be good to see at least part of these fixes land soonish
<cjwatson> I'm OK to upload the next ubiquity SRU now, aren't I?
<stgraber> cjwatson: it's already in the queue
<cjwatson> Oh, it's there, yeah
<stgraber> Package management related bugs: bug 1017001, bug 831768, bug 936186, bug 924079, bug 1007314
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831768 in aptitude (Ubuntu Precise) "aptitude cannot handle conflicts with multiarch enabled" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831768
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 936186 in software-properties (Ubuntu Precise) "add-apt-repository crashed with error in get_ppa_info_from_lp(): (23, 'Failed writing body (0 != 1607)')" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/936186
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924079 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "do-release-upgrade fails to upgrade from Oneiric to Precise: Couldn't configure pre-depend libtinfo5 for libncurses5, probably a dependency cycle" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924079
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1007314 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "trying to upgrade from 11.10 to 12.04: The package 'postgresql-contrib-8.2' is marked for removal but it's in the removal blacklist" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007314
<stgraber> bug 946718, bug 226780
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946718 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Precise) "backend_helper.py crashed with RuntimeError in add_signal_receiver(): To make asynchronous calls, receive signals or export objects, D-Bus connections must be attached to a main loop by passing mainloop=... to the constructor or calling dbus.set_default_main_loop(...)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946718
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226780 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "apt-key net-update does not obey APT::Acquire::http::Proxy" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226780
<cjwatson> 831768 is doomed, it's not going to get any further for .1
<cjwatson> needs serious upstream work
<stgraber> cjwatson: ok, re-target to precise-updates then?
<cjwatson> Yeah, doing
<infinity> I'm not sure why 226780 is targetted for .1
<infinity> Sure, it should be fixed "some day", but it's always been broken.
<infinity> (And we keep turning off apt-key net-update when we find new security flaws in its design anyway :P)
<cjwatson> Maybe because we actually need to cycle the key soon
<cjwatson> (As soon as I get round to the necessary publisher changes)
<cjwatson> But yeah, we probably just need to deliver that in a package, I guess
<infinity> cjwatson: Does our key cycling actually rely on net-update?  Cause that's going to end in tears.
 * slangasek waves from the train
<cjwatson> No, it's a backstop measure
<cjwatson> Although very handy if we ever have to do an emergency cycling
<infinity> cjwatson: I would have assumed it would be delivered in ubuntu-keyring, and there wouldn't be a hard cutover of doom.
<cjwatson> There would be if our key were compromised.
<cjwatson> Well, possibly.
<infinity> cjwatson: Absolutely.  Hence why the bug needs to be fixed.  Just not sure about the sudden .1 urgency.
<cjwatson> Yeah.
<infinity> (Well, the bugs, plural, net-update is a mess)
<stgraber> moved it to -updates too. We don't have a fix in quantal or even the beginning of a fix for it, so unlikely that someone can spend the time for 12.04.1
<stgraber> (especially considering the pretty long list of other bugs to fix)
<infinity> The tinfo/ncurses thing, I haven't seen before.  But it can't be a hard fix.
<infinity> Well, it can't he hard to work around.  Fixing might be a bit much.
<stgraber> we really want to get that list to reflect what can be done for 12.04.1, so if you're planning on working on one of these, assign it to yourself, if you know it won't happen, comment and move to another milestone.
<stgraber> Installer related bug: bug 966480, bug 484252, bug 1021293, bug 992061
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966480 in casper (Ubuntu Precise) "The prompt asking for media removal is not shown at the end of the installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966480
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484252 in usb-creator (Ubuntu Precise) "Format action wipes all partitions" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484252
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021293 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubuntu 12.04 install stalls when doing apt-get upgrade" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021293
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992061 in usb-creator (Ubuntu Precise) "USB Startup Disk Creator displays one USB device multiple times" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992061
<cjwatson> I'll see if I can scrape together time for 1021293 from somewhere :-/
<stgraber> I'll take the casper one as I've seen it happen a few times and it's really annoying
<stgraber> ARM enablement bugs: bug 1004011
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1004011 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Precise) "Add support for highbank in flash-kernel" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004011
<stgraber> Looks like NCommander is taking care of these (he uploaded the d-i bits IIRC)
<stgraber> Multi-arch: bug 977947, bug 977952, bug 977964, bug 977940, bug 977959
<cjwatson> stgraber: That one has two uploads in the queue, never mind one, I think
 * ogra_ is happy to help out if needed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977947 in libbonobo (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonobo to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977947
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977952 in libbonoboui (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonoboui to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977964 in libart-lgpl (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libart-lgpl to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977964
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977940 in gnome-vfs (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition gnome-vfs to multi-arch" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977959 in libgnome (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libgnome to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977959
<cjwatson> Bitten by bug 1025515 so it's a little hard to tell
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025515 in Launchpad itself "LP diffs are being linked at http://lplibrarian-private-download.internal:8000" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025515
<cjwatson> (Sorry about that)
<stgraber> stokachu: any progress with the rdepends rebuild test?
<stgraber> Grub/boot: bug 975931, bug 942846, bug 980917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 975931 in grub-gfxpayload-lists (Ubuntu Quantal) "purple screen freeze with AMD 6850" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975931
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942846 in grub-gfxpayload-lists (Ubuntu Precise) "encrypted install fails to boot as long as vt.handoff=7 is used" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942846
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 980917 in upstart (Ubuntu Precise) "Failed to create pty - disabling logging for job" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980917
<cjwatson> grub-gfxpayload-lists is supposed to be essentially owned by desktop.
<cjwatson> Or kernel.  Whoever knows what IDs are supposed to be in it.
<cjwatson> I started it off but with the aim that we'd no longer have to care.
<stgraber> ok, I'll try to get someone to look at these tomorrow in the 12.04.1 meeting then
<stgraber> jodh: are we likely to get a fix for bug 980917 in time for 12.04.1?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 980917 in upstart (Ubuntu Precise) "Failed to create pty - disabling logging for job" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980917
<jodh> I've spent a bit of time looking at 980917, but it doesn't appear to be the quick fix we thought.
<jodh> I'll take another look at it and see if I can make some further progress....
<stgraber> thanks
<stgraber> Networking: bug 994575
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 994575 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "/etc/ppp/ip-up.d/000resolvconf should "exit 0" if pppd was run by NM, since NM will register the nameserver addresses itself" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/994575
<infinity> jodh: The mounting and mknod tricks we talked about weren't sufficient? :/
<stgraber> that one is fixed in quantal, I'll take care of pushing a batch of network related SRUs based on the fixes that landed in quantal, including that one
<jodh> infinity: no - same behaviour as before.
<infinity> jodh: Well, that's a lot of suck.
<stgraber> Other core packages: bug 974584, bug 979003, bug 1014197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Quantal) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979003 in eglibc (Ubuntu Precise) "libc incorrectly detects AVX support" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979003
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1014197 in libxslt (Ubuntu Precise) "package libxslt1-dev 1.1.26-8ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: './usr/bin/xslt-config' is different from the same file on the system" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014197
<infinity> stgraber: So... One would think that bug 1004011 would be addressed by release-upgrader-apt.  Except that, I'm betting we only backported/used that for lucid.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1004011 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Precise) "Add support for highbank in flash-kernel" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004011
<infinity> stgraber: Err, wrong number.
<infinity> bug 924079
<infinity> That one.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924079 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "do-release-upgrade fails to upgrade from Oneiric to Precise: Couldn't configure pre-depend libtinfo5 for libncurses5, probably a dependency cycle" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924079
 * stgraber takes bug 1014197
<infinity> stgraber: Perhaps just doing the same release-upgrader-apt backport trick for oneiric would magically give us sunshine and kittens.
<infinity> stgraber: As for 979003, I'm on it.  When's my deadline for getting that in, again?
<infinity> stgraber: I definitely want the fix in the images.
<stgraber> infinity: 2nd of August is when we'd like all that stuff to be in -proposed at the very least
<infinity> stgraber: Check, I can beat that clock.
<infinity> stgraber: It got delayed with a lot of re-writing and re-backporting upstream.
<stgraber> bdmurray: are you planning on doing the transitional package for bug 1007314 or should I take care of it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1007314 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "trying to upgrade from 11.10 to 12.04: The package 'postgresql-contrib-8.2' is marked for removal but it's in the removal blacklist" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007314
<infinity> stgraber: AVX/FMA4 is a mess.
<bdmurray> stgraber: no, I'm not planning on it
<stgraber> bdmurray: ok, taking it then
<stgraber> right, that's it for our 12.04.1 bug list
<stgraber> I'll be keeping track of these and will likely poke some of you to get some status update or check whether something should be moved to a later milestone
<cjwatson> I've just got http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise-proposed_probs.html working again, I think - we'll see at the next run
<stgraber> I'm also going to take 974584
<stgraber> as the server team said they'd prefer to have someone from foundations merge the fix from Debian and SRU it
<stgraber> there's also one more fix that we'll need pretty soon which is fixing live-build to only ship one kernel header
<stgraber> is someone already looking into that?
<infinity> stgraber: I was going to look into that.  Is there a bug for it, or should I JFDI?
<stgraber> (images are oversized at the moment, so anything to help get their size down a bit would help)
<infinity> stgraber: The quicker and less intrusive fix will probably be to post-process the chroot in livecd-rootfs, not fix it in live-build.
<cjwatson> infinity: I had a work item for it from ages back.  I don't think I ever filed a bug.
<stgraber> infinity: can't find a bug for it
<cjwatson> infinity: It should be a matter of carrying over the code from livecd.sh.
<infinity> cjwatson: Alright.  I'm not going to go WI hunting, I'll JFDI.
<cjwatson> And figuring out where to plug it in.
<infinity> cjwatson: Yeahp, that's where the cargo-culting was going to happen. :P
<cjwatson> It's in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-o-live-build
 * infinity replaces live-build with livecd.sh and waits to see who notices.
<cjwatson> You can have it, not that I expect anything will notice the assignee change
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
 * ogra_ hugs infinity 
<ogra_> would be lovely to have it back :)
<infinity> In the AOB camp, I'd like to remind people that Debian's all wheezy freezy.  If you have a spare 5 minutes where you're not, like, working on work, or having a life, go be a good citizen and fix an RC bug or two upstream.
<cjwatson> In theory I need to see if I can squeeze in python3-debian and GRUB 2.00.  Might be getting decreasingly plausible :(
 * cjwatson is planning on taking a few days of holiday next week to do housework and work on Debian, since the family's going to be away
 * cjwatson <- exciting life
<infinity> cjwatson: Significantly more plausible than my plan to ship glibc 2.15 a week before release.
<barry> or mine to make python3.3 the default and remove python2 entirely? :)
 * infinity is still miffed he missed the cuttof to just doko that in before freeze.
<cjwatson> (There may be some Guitar Hero involved too.)
<infinity> Can I use doko as a verb for that?  Seems fair.
<ogra_> heh
 * ogra_ just discovered Xonotic for gaming ... to actually make some use of the shiny new desktop i have 
<barry> infinity: you've created a new meme
<ogra_> "lets doko that in !" ...
<ogra_> surely makes a nice t-shirt
<ScottK> barry: This isn't arch.
<barry> or just a new meaning for the 'd' in jfdi
<barry> :)
<slangasek> barry: AIUI 3.3 is on track upstream for where we said it needed to be... *are* we going to take it by default in quantal?
<infinity> barry: wwdd?
<ScottK> FWIW, dh_python3 is not ready for 3.3 yet.
<barry> slangasek: i think beta2 was delayed a week.  not sure how that's going to play out
<cjwatson> ScottK: What's needed?
<slangasek> ScottK: not ready in what sense?
<ev> very excited about mock in the standard library
<ScottK> See Debian Bug #672178
<ubottu> Debian bug 672178 in src:python3-defaults "dh_python3: not ready for Python 3.3" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/672178
<slangasek> barry: ^^ seems that should get tracked on the blueprint then?
<barry> i'll open a bug on the ubuntu srcpkg and link it to that debian bug
<barry> slangasek: yes
<barry> bug 1026203
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1026203 in python3-defaults (Ubuntu) "python3-defaults does not yet support Python 3.3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026203
<cjwatson> ok, sounds like that's all, thanks
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 18 15:56:20 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-18-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-18-15.02.html
<ogra_> thanks !
<barry> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<jodh> thanks!
<ev> thanks!
<papibe> hi s-fox
<s-fox> 'Leo
<s-fox> 'lo
<papibe> s-fox: :)
<s-fox> So is it just coffeecat and I?
<coffeecat> o/
<hobgoblin> looks like
<matt_symes> does that mean the meeting is called off ?
<s-fox> Think might have to cancel :(
<s-fox> No quorum
<s-fox> * ridiculous *
<hobgoblin> yep
<papibe> :(
<s-fox> Im really sorry ;-(
<s-fox>  
<wildmanne39> are we going to wait a few minutes?
<s-fox>  I don't mind waiting for another 10
<wildmanne39> ok
<coffeecat> I doubt we'll see cariboo http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12104754&postcount=2134
<s-fox> So how are the mods?
<hobgoblin> tired :)
<s-fox> +1
<nothingspecial> here
<papibe> staff=mods?
<hobgoblin> spending too long on spam bans waiting for vb4 and tools that might turn up one day :)
<s-fox> Oui
<wildmanne39> just got back to town 30 minutes ago
<papibe> merci
 * s-fox spent all night taking money off people at billiards 
<s-fox> ;D
<hobgoblin> :)
<wildmanne39> sounds like fun
<papibe> s-fox: did it only once, and won.
<s-fox> Well im now home.
<s-fox> coffeecat:  do you think we should rearrange?
 * s-fox will post in scc later.
<s-fox> This is not even funny anymore
<coffeecat> s-fox, yes.
<matt_symes> shame :(
<s-fox> I know matt_symes :(
<s-fox> I am sorry to all those who did come
<oldos2er> s-fox: not your fault
<s-fox> :(
<hobgoblin> k - well I'm off to catch up on some zzzz's
<matt_symes> laters hobgoblin
<s-fox> Me too. Silly o'clock in the morning with a 5am start
<wildmanne39> night s-fox
<s-fox> To be frank I am disappointed
<matt_symes> ouch s-fox
<s-fox> Anyway, see you all.
<nothingspecial> me too
<papibe> oki doki, I'm sure next time will be better.
<wildmanne39> yes but we can do nothing about it
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-19
 * stgraber waves
<skaet> hiya
<seb128> hey
<stgraber> #startmeeting 12.04.1 team meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 19 14:03:00 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<stgraber> NCommander, stokachu, jibel, smoser, jamespage: around?
<smoser> o/
<jamespage> o/
<stgraber> #topic Action items review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Action items review
<stgraber> xnox to liase with ballons, gema and jibel w.r.t. fs/storage testing
<stgraber> haven't heard about it and xnox isn't around, so keeping it for next meeting
<jibel> no news from xnox
<stgraber> stgraber to review and sponsor bug 977947, bug 977952 and bug 977940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977947 in libbonobo (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonobo to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977947
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977952 in libbonoboui (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonoboui to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977940 in gnome-vfs (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition gnome-vfs to multi-arch" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977940
<stgraber> I've been talking to stokachu and asked for a rebuild test of the rdepends (as is required for multi-arch changes)
<stgraber> I haven't got a status update from him yet... hoping these will be done soon so we can finally upload these
<stgraber> skaet to poke the SRU team and see what can be done to process the current backlog
 * skaet poked
<skaet> plan discussed earlier this week,   but couple of steps, rather than immediate reaction.
<skaet> if there are specific blockers,  please flag in #ubuntu-release
<skaet> mostly the processing seems to be keeping up (ie. its not getting worse),  verification is issue though.
<stgraber> stgraber to change the meeting to a weekly meeting
<stgraber> skaet: I've been trying to help a bit with verification this week. Trying to clear these that area >= 7 days
<stgraber> I know I've got a bunch more to go through today (that reach their 7 days today)
<skaet> Thanks stgraber!  :)
<stgraber> as for the weekly meeting action item, well, as you can see, it's done ;)
<skaet> :)
<stgraber> #topic Review of upcoming deadlines
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review of upcoming deadlines
<NCommander> Sorry, I'm running late. Was OTp'ed
<skaet> Today is new hardware freeze,  and I think most of the new hardware bits are in place....
<stgraber>  * 2012/08/02: Beginning of PointReleaseProcess and
<stgraber> DesktopInfrastructureFreeze
<stgraber>  * 2012/08/09: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix
<stgraber> Validation Testing
<stgraber>  * 2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
<stgraber>  * 2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
<NCommander> skaet: right, so base-installer, libd-i, and f-k got uploaded
<stgraber> skaet: oh right, forgot that one, yeah I believe we were just waiting for highbank and NCommander took care of it
<NCommander> d-i patch is done and works, but f-k had a bug that didn'tpot untilit was in archive,so I needto do a second upload to fix
<NCommander> stgraber: its looking like d-i will get uploaded tomorrow dueto the f-k hiccup, but all the code works now,and it passesthe netboot QA test case
<NCommander> (may get uploaded tonight, depends how many hours of consciousness I can mantain)
 * NCommander is done
<skaet> stgraber,  also the walinuxagent is available, and gotten in to 12.10,  but needs to be reviewed for 12.04.1 still.
<stgraber> skaet: do we have a bug targeted to 12.04.1 for it? I don't remember seeing one when I went through the list last time
<jamespage> stgraber, yep - one second
<skaet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/walinuxagent/+bug/1014864
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1014864 in walinuxagent (Ubuntu Precise) "[MIR] walinuxagent" [High,New]
<jamespage> skaet, so we are treating this like hardware enablement?
<stgraber> are you also planning to have it in main there?
<skaet> jamespage, its in a grey area,  but that's closest.
<smoser> yes, main.
<stgraber> is the security team aware that they'll have to support it for the 12.04 too?
<jamespage> stgraber, I believe so but I will check
<stgraber> I don't see it mentioned in the bug, so adding a package to the supported list post-release would probably need to be mentioned to everyone involved :)
<stgraber> jamespage: ok, thanks
<stgraber> #topic Quick look through the current bug lists
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Quick look through the current bug lists
<NCommander> (side note: f-k uploaded, just needs a SRU push, and then a publisher run and I can uploadd-i)
<stgraber> so the list once again doesn't look extremely good. We went from 112 entries up to 121 entries
<stgraber> that's 90 without the fix commited ones
<stgraber> and around 75 without the ones currently sitting in the queue
<stgraber> of these remaining 75, 30 are still without assignees
<stgraber> mostly desktop and servre bugs
<stgraber> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.structural_subscriber=&field.milestone%3Alist=49926&field.component-empty-marke
<stgraber> http://goo.gl/4KgFI in case that link didn't paste properly
<seb128> I will assign bugs for desktop, though they are mostly on track but I don't usually bother setting the assignee when that's the case
<stgraber> there was two foundations bug in there (at least), I assigned these two now
<skaet> getting those with patches attached,  processed quickly would be good as well.   if possible.
<stgraber> yeah, some of these have been fixed in quantal or have patches attached, so are pretty trivial fixes. I've been pushing a few of these yesterday, will try to spend some more time today for that
<stgraber> would be good to remind your teammates that they only have roughly two weeks left to get these fixes into -proposed, so it's really time to update the status of these bugs and move these that won't get fixed
<stgraber> #topic Round table
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Round table
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ echo $(shuf -e NCommander seb128 stgraber jibel skaet smoser jamespage)
<stgraber> seb128 NCommander jibel smoser stgraber jamespage skaet
<stgraber> seb128: you're up!
<seb128> hey
<seb128> nothing special to say, desktop SRUs still go at a good pace
<seb128> the unity SRU round is ready from today, should hit the queue soon
<seb128> it's good to see that we got a good round of SRU reviews some days ago
<seb128> the second round of compiz,unity SRUs with the performances improvements might be delayed to 12.04.2
<seb128> if it's getting too late
<seb128> ..
<stgraber> NCommander:
<NCommander> need flash-kernel iushed into proposed so I can do a second d-i install, then upload and finalize the SRU
 * NCommander is lagging, sorry
<NCommander> Beyond that highbank enablement looks solid
<NCommander> ..
<stgraber> jibel:
<jibel> must investigate  upgrade bug 1022864
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022864 in gsettings-desktop-schemas (Ubuntu Quantal) "Lucid to Precise upgrade test failed: User settings are not preserved on upgrade" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022864
<jibel> 1 failure yesterday with precise desktop i386, but was transient and todays looks good
<jibel> ..
<stgraber> smoser:
<smoser> jamespage, volunteered to take my spot
<jamespage> ta
<jamespage> still pushing through SRU's for the server packages.
<jamespage> juju bugs have now been reviewed and we now only have a few outstanding for 12.04.1
<jamespage> maas - still making decisions on what will be SRU'ed for 12.04.1
<jamespage> so not much progress there
<jamespage> as skaet mentioned walinuxagent is required for windows azure enablement in 12.04
<jamespage> thats getting some focus
<jamespage> and rbasak has reworked the apache/module multiarch fix; which got uploaded today...
<jamespage> ..
<stgraber> yay for apache2/mod_security! that one has been waiting in -proposed for a long time
<stgraber> stgraber:
<stgraber> been doing a bunch of verifications in -proposed, more to come today
<stgraber> Uploaded a new ubiquity with a bunch of fixes, also resolvconf (1 fix), krb5 (1 upgrade fix) and libxslt (multi-arch bug)
<stgraber> Went through all the foundations related bugs during our team meeting, will continue to do so until the point release, trying to get people to prioritize that work
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> skaet:
<skaet> Discussed translation plan with David Plannella,  working to make sure coverage during vacations.
<skaet> 12.04.1 Manifest has been updated, mostly signed off, can be found at:
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseManifest/12.04.1
<skaet> Daily cron builds will be set up to reflect the signed off manifest and the results will be published on:
<skaet> #link http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
 * skaet started working on it yesterday,  and but wants to get some review before deploying.  
<skaet> Will announce in #ubuntu-release channel when dailies  include all of 12.04.1 manifest targets.
<skaet> Need to start getting flavors testing their images, and seeing if there are any surprises.
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  AOB
<stgraber> bug 1025515 made the reviews a bit trickier yesterday, but it's been fixed now, so I'm expecting a bunch of SRUs hitting proposed soon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025515 in Launchpad itself "LP diffs are being linked at http://lplibrarian-private-download.internal:8000" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025515
<ScottK> What's the deadline for getting into -proposed?  There's a candidate issue in postfix that I'm considering tackling after the current SRU is copied to -udpates.
<skaet> 08/02
<ScottK> Thanks.
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 19 14:40:43 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-19-14.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-19-14.03.html
<stgraber> thanks everyone!
<skaet> Thanks stgraber!  :)
<jibel> thanks stgraber
 * AlanBell wonders if the CC meeting is nowish
<YokoZar> My thoughts as well :)
<YokoZar> #startmeeting Community Council
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 19 17:03:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is YokoZar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:
<YokoZar> Hello everyone.  Looks like attendance might be sparse for this CC meeting, it conflicts with OS-Con :)
<YokoZar> #topic IRC Council Checkup
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:  IRC Council Checkup
<AlanBell> sabdfl's talk is over, I watched it ;)
<YokoZar> First we usually start with the council checkups -- Who from the IRC council is here? :)
<AlanBell> me
<AlanBell> Pici is too
<Pici> \o
<YokoZar> Well then, hello to you both :)
<cprofitt> welcome Pici and AlanBell
<AlanBell> Tm_T might also be around
<Pici> Howdy
<AlanBell> so, anything in particular you would like us to cover?
<beuno> AlanBell, first of all, you've been awesome.
<YokoZar> Well, the usual thing we like to do is find out if we're overlooking anything as well
<AlanBell> :)
<YokoZar> Such as opportunities for the CC to smooth things over with other groups/canonical
<cprofitt> Yes, I will second that as well - awesome work AlanBell
<AlanBell> so maybe I could run through some stuff since the last checkup
<cprofitt> yes, please do.
<AlanBell> we have a new batch of operators from when we processed all the queues
<AlanBell> I arranged some training sessions for them this afternoon for next thursday and the week after
<AlanBell> this was a bit later than planned, but we have been busy with other stuff too
<Pici> We're also trialing a new on-topic Ubuntu centric discussion channel.
<AlanBell> we went through an election process and filled the 5th seat on the council and are really happy to have tm_t as the new council member
<AlanBell> he has an 18 month term so we all expire at the same time
<AlanBell> yes, the new #ubuntu-discuss channel has been set up
<YokoZar> Pici: AlanBell how "noisy" is #ubuntu-discuss these days?
 * YokoZar wonders if such a general chat concept can hold given enough growth 
<AlanBell> it could be a little noisier, there have been a number of interesting and productive discussions there
<Pici> YokoZar: Not as busy as we had hoped, but we're still trying to nurture it.
<AlanBell> it might not work out, but the only way to find out is to try it
<cprofitt> I saw some plans to help people become more aware of alternate avenues of getting help -- like ask.ubuntu.com -- how is that going?
<AlanBell> well those are certainly places we point people
<AlanBell> including people who for whatever reason don't seem to be able to work constructively in the IRC environment
<Pici> We added askubuntu to our 'other places to ask' factoid a while ago.
 * cprofitt likes factoids
<Pici> And more recently, I've noticed more helpers suggest links from it as solutions.
 * YokoZar remembers a discussion with someone about how this and that distro had more people "ready to help in IRC" than Ubuntu.  I noted it was probably just a lack of alternative places to go.
<IdleOne> if I may?
<cprofitt> I give big kudos to folks that help in #ubuntu, there is a lot of volume in that chanel
<YokoZar> Of course
<cprofitt> IdleOne: always
<IdleOne> There was some talk in #ubuntuforums about where they should do support if any and where they should send users looking for non forums type support. #ubuntu-beginners was one of the channels being thought of. I suggested that perhaps #ubuntu would be better because -beginners is not very busy. The stsaint and I mentioned it in the -ops-team channel so the rest of the team could be aware of what was going on
<AlanBell> we also put together https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/SupportersGuide as a guide for helpers
<IdleOne> so, yeah we as a team need to start mentioning the forums and askubuntu a little more perhaps.
<cprofitt> very nice wiki page AlanBell
<czajkowski> AlanBell: nice work
<cprofitt> Are you planning on making improvements in any other areas? Are there areas you need the assistance of the CC with?
<AlanBell> I think we are OK for now, it was good to work with the CC for the election of Tm_T, but I don't think there is anything specific coming up that we need assistance with
<Pici> I can't think of anything right now either.
<YokoZar> All right, perhaps we should move on then
<AlanBell> I was thinking of encouraging some more of our operators to apply for the next UDS
<cprofitt> Great work guys -- thank you.
<YokoZar> Speaking of UDS...
<czajkowski> anything else?
 * YokoZar is still a bit unsure of if the mechanics of it have been settled.
<AlanBell> thanks czajkowski cprofitt YokoZar o/
<cprofitt> You are most welcome AlanBell -- a big thank you to the IRC Council and all the IRC OPs
<AlanBell> yay, our ops are awesome
<IdleOne> :) I'll take that compliment
<YokoZar> #topic Fixed Agenda Items -- Review last team report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:  Fixed Agenda Items -- Review last team report
<IdleOne> our irc council is aawesome too
<IdleOne> -a
<YokoZar> :)
 * YokoZar looks over last team reports
<YokoZar> seems none was made for last meeting, but there is still an open question of the RT ticket with the forums.  Best to followup on email I think unless that's settled
<YokoZar> #topic Fixed Agenda Items -- Update team report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:  Fixed Agenda Items -- Update team report
<YokoZar> Moving on, I need a cc volunteer to do the standard wiki page updates
<Gwaihir> YokoZar, am updating the reports, at least linking the logs one are ready
<Gwaihir> can update the wiki page too to reflect that
<YokoZar> Excellent Gwaihir :)
<Gwaihir> we need to send out emails to the LoCo Council about next catch up
<Gwaihir> czajkowski, ^^
<czajkowski> consider it done.
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: that for the 2nd of August?
<Gwaihir> czajkowski, yep, as long as we do not go on holidays :-)
<czajkowski> no holidays are the following week for me :)
<YokoZar> Ok, if Gwaihir is doing the wiki stuff and czajkowski is doing the reminder mail, then I think we done except for picking a next chair
<czajkowski> a whole 9 days off irc!
<YokoZar> which, honestly, we might as well do 2 minutes before the meeting as usual :D
<czajkowski> YokoZar: or pick on beuno :)
<Gwaihir> YokoZar, it is funnier :-)
<YokoZar> I agree with volunteering beuno :D
<YokoZar> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 19 17:37:28 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-19-17.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-19-17.03.html
<Gwaihir> czajkowski, wanna help out with moving stuff here? I have to move into a new house, might be a nice holiday!
<beuno> oy!
<czajkowski> eh.. I could send the sister she loves Italy :)
<czajkowski> beuno: old!
<czajkowski> beuno: ola even
<czajkowski> oops
<Gwaihir> czajkowski, am not in Italy, I live in the South of France ;-)
<IdleOne> #startmeeting 2200 UTC Membership meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 19 22:01:56 2012 UTC.  The chair is IdleOne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2200 UTC Membership meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<IdleOne> Who is here for the 22:00 UTC Membership meeting
<IdleOne> o/
<IdleOne> Since we don't have anybody applying for membership it has been decided (behind the scenes) to cancel this weeks meeting. See ya next time.
<IdleOne> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 19 22:03:32 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-19-22.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-19-22.01.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-20
 * skaet waves
<roadmr> hello!
 * stgraber waves
<tumbleweed> hi
<arosales> hello
<skaet> hiya roadmr, stgraber, tumbleweed, arosales :)
<vanhoof> hi :)
<ogra_> moo
<mdeslaur> \o
<popey> o/
<Riddell> hi
<skaet> looks like quorum,  :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jul 20 15:00:48 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet> Agenda (and minute location):
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-07-20
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming dates:
<skaet> 12.10
<skaet>     2012/07/23: Quantal Alpha 3 image candidates start  (slangasek, laney, skaet - contact points)
<skaet>     2012/07/26: Quantal Alpha 3
<skaet>     2012/08/23: Quantal Feature Freeze
<skaet> 12.04.1
<skaet>     2012/08/02: DesktopInfrastructureFreeze
<skaet>     2012/08/09: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix Validation Testing
<skaet>     2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
<skaet>     2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 2012/07/20 -  2966  (was 3041 last week):  Thanks for the cleanup!  :)    Weâre still a little high, but looking better now.   Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks.
<skaet> Bugs:
<skaet> Quantal: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> 12.04.1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
<skaet> .
<skaet> Pendinging Action Items:
<skaet> None
<skaet> .
<skaet> Weekly Status Received:
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001578.html - HW Cert - brendand
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001579.html - Security - mdeslaur
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001580.html - Kernel - ogasawara
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001583.html - Desktop - seb128
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001584.html - Lubuntu - gilir
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001585.html - Edubuntu - stgraber
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001587.html - Linaro - rsalveti
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001588.html - Server - arosales
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001589.html - Xubuntu - astraljava
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001590.html - Kubuntu - Riddell
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001591.html - Foundations - ogra_
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001592.html - Ubuntu One - joshuahoover
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001593.html - QA - jibel
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001594.html - Unity - popey
<skaet> ..
<skaet> #topic Questions and Comments
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Questions and Comments
<skaet> roadmr, gilir, stgraber, scott-work, astraljava, Riddell - is your flavor planning in participating in A3 next week?
<stgraber> yep
<gilir> yes
<Riddell> stgraber: we're in
<Riddell> skaet even
<skaet> :)
<roadmr> I don't think I have a flavor
<skaet> sorry roadmr
<skaet> popey,  will the compiz & gsettings changes be tested and land before monday?  (ie. in time for A3?)
<popey> skaet, right now we're working on the migration tool for gconf->gsettings. I'd like to hope it could land today!
<popey> but the tool isn't fully tested, as in, it's currently being written
<popey> ..
<skaet> popey,  so basically waiting on the testing to be written,  rather than the tool?
<popey> a bit of both yes
<skaet> popey,  understood.
<skaet> ..
 * skaet wonders if anyone else has questions?  please "o/" if you do
<skaet> brendand, on your top 3 list, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/990575 has a fix and needs testing,   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1016195 is also waiting for input from your team (incomplete),  whoâs looking into it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990575 in linux (Ubuntu) "Entire desktop becomes unresponsive after suspend/resume" [High,Incomplete]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016195 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "[Dell Latitude E6220] Crashes or exits with signal 9 when under heavy load" [High,Incomplete]
<roadmr> o/
<skaet> go roadmr
<balloons> o/
<roadmr> skaet: I'm working on bug 1016195, need to test kernels as requested by jsalisbury, and file an upstream bug, hopefully will do that today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016195 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "[Dell Latitude E6220] Crashes or exits with signal 9 when under heavy load" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016195
<roadmr> (well, rather I'm running the tests, jsalisbury is the one actually working on it!)
<skaet> thanks roadmr.  :)   as long as they're not stalled out was the concern.
<roadmr> our cert engineer in Lexington has the system for bug 990575, I'll poke him and see if he can move that one forward
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990575 in linux (Ubuntu) "Entire desktop becomes unresponsive after suspend/resume" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990575
<roadmr> skaet: no, they're being looked at, they just happen to be a bit time-consuming (each test run for the E6220 takes at least 2 hours)
<roadmr> ..
<skaet> Thanks roadmr.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> go balloons
<balloons> just a quick off the wall question for everyone -- has there been issues in general with the 3.5 kernel series being unstable and causing kernel panics?
<popey> i haven't seen any
<ogasawara> balloons: haven't heard of anything here, do you have any info on the panic?
<balloons> I just randomly got pinged twice this week from folks who can't run quantal at all due to them.. I'm working on getting them to file bugs
<ogasawara> balloons: ack, if you can get their info in a bug I'll have my team take a look
<ogasawara> balloons: 3.5 is still feeling a little rough which is worrysome
<balloons> ogasawara, thanks.. just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something
<balloons> ogasawara, yes.. ok, I was wondering if anyone else was feeling that
<balloons> ..
<ogasawara> balloons: we are seeing some suspend resume issues with the latest upload, so we're looking into that
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> jibel, arosales - have we had booting Quantal server images since 0717?   canât tell from the QA report.  Alternate issues appear fixed, so a bit confused.   If not,  which bug is the problem tracked under?
 * Daviey hides.
<arosales> skaet: I know ARM had some issues building
<skaet> Daviey,  feel free to add knowledge ;)
<jibel> skaet, it was the same problem for all d-i based images and it is fixed
<arosales> Daviey:  were there sever images also having issues
<arosales> cloud images are building
<Daviey> No, they look good today
<arosales> ah, ok thanks Daviey
<arosales> ..
<Daviey> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/precise-server-amd64_default/
<Daviey> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/precise-server-i386_default/
<jibel> the poblem was lvm only https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/All%20Quantal/job/quantal-server-i386_lvm/
<Daviey> world looks good.
<stgraber> ogasawara: lxc stress testing here (trying to reproduce an issue Laney found a while ago and that was also happenning to me) led to quite a few weird hangs: bug 1021471
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021471 in linux (Ubuntu) "stuck on mutex_lock creating a new network namespace when starting a container" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021471
<stgraber> ogasawara: not completely clear what's going on, but something's definitely wrong
<stgraber> ..
<ogasawara> stgraber: hrm, thanks.  will get smb or cooloney to try and take a look.
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> arosales,  which specific MIRâs are you concerned about in the blocking item section of your report?
<skaet> ..
<arosales> juju has become less of a concern
<arosales> but we still have some MAAs related ones
<arosales> and openstack
<arosales> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html Under MIR tracking are the ones we are looking at
<skaet> thanks.
<Daviey> But generally, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg is a mess
<Riddell> \o
<Daviey> seb128: any news on webkit dropping recommends on gstreamer bad?
<ScottK> IIRC the news was seb128 wasn't going to touch it.
<Daviey> ScottK: O_o.. where did he state that?
<seb128> Daviey, feel free to upload, I don't maintain webkit
<Daviey> seb128: Who does?
<seb128> Daviey, on #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-release
<seb128> nobody that's the issue
<seb128> I did take already too much time to update it this week because software-center and other stuff were broken due to incompatibilities between libsoup and webkit
<Daviey> well if it's going to be a "no you" issue, i'll do it.. not sure what the issue is..
<Daviey> Certainly seems more Desktop issue than anything else.. but whatever.
<seb128> well, I can upload
<seb128> I wanted to see if it was going to build on arm* first
<seb128> to not waste another 1 day of buildd time to get armel back in sync
<Daviey> ah, that makes more sense.
<seb128> but you are like the 3rd person to ask since yesterday about the recommend
<seb128> so maybe it's more important to drop those and we can build on armel later
<seb128> I will do an upload
<seb128> ..
<Daviey> seb128: well.. Keeping c-m dirty is the servers teams job, and i won't have desktop encroaching :)
<Daviey> ..
<skaet> yeah,  Daviey,  components-mismatches definitely looks like it needs some love,   plusone team ping time.
<seb128> ;-)
<Daviey> skaet: i think it's mostly blocked on resourcing the MIR team. :(
<Daviey> I have about another 5 MIR's next week. :(
<Daviey> ..
<skaet> Daviey,  ack.  and summer vacation.  :(      ok,  its noted.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> ogra_,  rather long list of 12.04.1 bugs in your report,  are the fixes all really going to land before 08/02?
<ogra_> skaet, it is the list that was discussed in the foundations meeting, i doubt all of them will be fixed, no
<ogra_> but its a list the team picks from
<ogra_> (should have probably mentioned that in the header)
<stgraber> I think I fixed around 5 of them since the meeting, xnox has a pretty long list of bugs that'll disappear from the list when we get the new mdadm and e2fsprogs
<xnox> mdadm - review comments fixed & reuploaded: pending on slangasek for re-review;
<ogra_> and some of them are already fix committed (i.e. flash-kernel issues)
<stgraber> but I'm expecting quite a good chunk of the rest won't make it to the point release. Will start re-milestoning as I know more.
<xnox> e2fsprogs - pending on me and infinity to do a line by line cod-review
<skaet> ogra_,  can we prune the bug lists down to the most likely high/critical ones next week?
<ogra_> yep, will do
<skaet> thanks stgraber,  re-milestoning would be welcome.
<skaet> thanks xnox.  :)
<skaet> thanks ogra_ :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> Riddell go
 * skaet missed his "o/" earlier
<Riddell> qt 3 is removed in debian, do we want to follow
<Riddell> it's a question of if we care about lsb
<Riddell> I don't but maybe someone else here does
<skaet> seb128,   ^ any thoughts?
<seb128> we do care about lsb I think
<seb128> I would like to check with slangasek or cjwatson
<seb128> I don't really care about qt3 though
<seb128> does lsb requires it?
<seb128> ..
<Riddell> it's part of lsb 4.0 yes
<Riddell> but nobody uses it any more
<Riddell> I'll ask on the mailing list if nobody here has an opinion
<Riddell> ..
<skaet> Thanks Riddell!
<seb128> thanks
 * skaet doesn't see any more hands in the backscroll...
<skaet> anyone else have questions this week?
<roadmr> o/
<mdeslaur> Riddell: does stuff like the proprietary citrix client use qt3?
<Riddell> mdeslaur: that I don't know
<mdeslaur> we might want to take a look before killing it
<mdeslaur> ..
<skaet> go roadmr
<roadmr> super-quick question re: bug 1021293, is this possible to fix by uploading a new version of the offending package so that upgrading from a clean 12.04 will succeed? (other than guarding against that sort of problem as suggested by cjwatson)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021293 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 12.04 install stalls when doing apt-get upgrade" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021293
<roadmr> ..
<stgraber> mdeslaur: citrix doesn't at least
<stgraber> ..
<mdeslaur> hah, openmotif :)
<mdeslaur> ..
<rsalveti> o/
<skaet> ogra_, cjwatson, stgraber,  ^ any thoughts on roadmr's question?   or best handled in the bug?
<stgraber> best handled in the bug. cjohnston replied an hour ago with some more details.
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> cjwatson
<skaet> ok
<skaet> rsalveti, go
<rsalveti> ogasawara: ogra_: do we know what will happen with the kernel used for omap4? TI is currently only focused on getting the 3.4 based on stable, and is not showing any plans on moving the work to a 3.5 based kernel
<cjwatson> roadmr: You'll probably have a fix by the end of today, without trying to work around me.
<ogra_> well, afaik paolo already worked on a 3.5 port
<ogra_> rsalveti, ^^^
<ogra_> cherrypicking the missing bits into a mainline 3.5
<rsalveti> ogra_: oh, ok, so then he'll be mainly maintaining the tree himself I suppose
<roadmr> cjwatson: awesome, thanks!
<cjwatson> roadmr: I'll talk with Robert Ancell at some point, but, while accountsservice is broken, I don't think we should rely on whack-a-mole fixes in packages being upgraded to fix this general problem.
<ogra_> rsalveti, but i dont know the status, he vanished with the rest of the kernel team from IRC when their sprint started, probably ogasawara can give details
<ogra_> i know he had something that booted already though ...
<ogra_> ..
<rsalveti> ogra_: ok, I can follow this up with the kernel team then, just want to make sure we're at least working on the same thing, if possible
<ogasawara> rsalvet, ogra_:  well, the current omap4 kernel is v3.4 based.  ppisati has been playing with a v3.5 port though.  I'll throw it on the agenda for the morning to discuss further.
<ogasawara> ..
<rsalveti> as if he decides to push a 3.5 based on, we'd need to make sure it's well tested
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, he cherry picked from TILT i think
<ogra_> ..
<brendand> cjwatson - it still needs to be fixed in ubiquity for sure, we're just wondering will the 12.04 release image work for us again
<rsalveti> ogasawara: ok, thanks
<rsalveti> ogra_: yeah, ok :-)
<cjwatson> brendand: Ah, yes, we do need to fix both
<rsalveti> ..
<cjwatson> brendand: Any of my three suggestions in the bug would cover that
<cjwatson> brendand: But I don't routinely work on accountsservice myself so I'd prefer robert_ancell's input there
<cjwatson> Anyway, we should do this in the bug
<brendand> cjwatson, sure. i have already posted the same question in the bug
<skaet> am not seeing any further questions for this meeting...
<ogra_> o/
<skaet> go ogra_  :)
<ogra_> rsalveti, whats the status on PVR, any solution in sight ?
<ogra_> (and also can you make it work with a possible 3.5 kernel easily)
<ogra_> ..
<rsalveti> ogra_: I'll be working on getting it available at quantal over the next few days, but one thing that kind of worried be at the first moment is that this driver is not behaving properly with compiz/unity
<ogra_> yeah, i read that
<rsalveti> so I'm checking the bugs on the linaro side, and also trying to find if someone would be able to help
<ogra_> did you use the new upstream compiz ?
<rsalveti> probably robclark
<rsalveti> both the old and the new that is currently on development
<ogra_> great, if rob is involved i'm confident that we'll have a happy end :)
<rsalveti> but, as long as we don't deploy compiz right away with gles support, it'd still be useful to have a newer driver available
<ogra_> ..
<rsalveti> ogra_: exactly ;-)
<rsalveti> ..
<skaet> time to end now then.  :)
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jul 20 15:56:24 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-20-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-20-15.00.html
<skaet> Thanks for your participation this week,  roadmr, stgraber, tumbleweed, jibel, arosales, vanhoof, ogra_, Daviey, ogasawara, Riddell, roadmr, seb128, balloons, popey, gilir, ScottK, cjwatson, brendand, rsalveti.
<arosales> Thanks for chair'ing skaet
<roadmr> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks skaet !
<seb128> skaet, thank you!
<popey> thanks skaet
<balloons> thanks skaet :-0
<roadmr> cjwatson: thanks for looking at our crazy bugs :)
<jibel> thanks skaet
<rsalveti> thanks skaet
<stgraber> thanks!
<seb128> @SRU team: is there any motivated member who wants to review the unity precise SRU just uploaded? we would like to get it early rather than late to keep open the possibility to do another SRU round for the 12.04.1 desktop freeze
<meetingology> seb128: Error: "SRU" is not a valid command.
<seb128> some notes
<seb128> - the list of bugs fixed in that SRU is quite long
<seb128> - some of the bugs are not fully SRU-rules-compliant yet, but the vast majority is, the #ps guys are working on finishing testcases etc for the remaining ones
<seb128> (I don't think we should block the SRU on that)
<seb128> - the update got quite some solid testing already, some people are running it for a week and it went through several round of checkbox manual test and automatic testing
<seb128> with some issues found and fixed during the week
<seb128>  
<seb128> to do it short: it's going to be a bit tricky to review but it got solid automated and manual testing and we are confident it should create no issue
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> graaa, that was meant for #ubuntu-devel :p
<skaet> seb128, yeah that would be more appropriate,  as would #ubuntu-release  ;)
<seb128> skaet, I will not crosspost on a third channel, I think the SRU team are all on #ubuntu-devel, I posted there now ;-)
<skaet> :)
<astraljava> skaet: Sorry, was on the road during the meeting. Yes, Xubuntu will participate in A-3 next week. Thanks!
<skaet> thanks astraljava :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-15
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> \o
<chrisccoulson_> hi
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> hi
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 15 16:30:50 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> last week was more work on apparmor (application lifecycle, click and application confinement)
<jdstrand> I had hoped to get openjdk-7 out, but testing took longer than expected. that should go out today
<jdstrand> I am preparing openjdk-6 uploads now
<jdstrand> cause of the above, I postponed patch piloting again, so I'll give it another shot this week
<jdstrand> I have some july work items, particularly getting the evil app together for the IoM demo, and trying to drive the conversations that affect us related to that demo to conclusion
<jdstrand> I upgraded to saucy on my main system over the weekend, and have a number of bugs to file/investigate
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I just published a couple of USNs
<mdeslaur> and am currently working on php5 updates
<mdeslaur> I have a couple of other things to test and will probably release them this week
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll continue picking stuff from the CVE list
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm working on apparmor stuff this week
<sbeattie> I'm currently working on getting the click hook prototype implementation far enough along to help drive the hook discussion to completion.
<sbeattie> I also upgraded to saucy over the weekend, and have a couple of bugs of my own to file.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'll be updating the apparmor parser according to the DBus/IPC syntax that we decided on last week
<tyhicks> I upgraded to saucy and need to take a look at some new AA dbus denials
<tyhicks> Then content-hub should be at a good place for me to start on the Content Handler work items
<tyhicks> I also need to find a little time for ecryptfs patch reviews
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am working on apparmor WIs this week, I am going to try and get some parser cleanups (and fixes collisions with tyhicks work) and changes for ipc out this week, before my long weekend (I'm off M,T next week).
<jjohansen> I also need to start pushing the apparmorfs changes upstream (for 3.12) now that the merge window for 3.11 has closed
<jjohansen> I think thats it for me chrisccoulson your up
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> note, i've just had a couple of short weeks (was away last monday, and the last 2 days of the week previous)
<chrisccoulson> i got another flash update out last week
<chrisccoulson> also attended a call to talk about the UA string for the mobile browser. we're going to have a further call with someone from mozilla soon
<chrisccoulson> did some more work on oxide (what i've got is actually buildable now!)
<chrisccoulson> i'm hoping to have it sort-of working sometime next week
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to arrange a meeting for all stakeholders of that this week
<mdeslaur> \o/
<jdstrand> re oxide building> woo!
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libuser.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnucash.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/salt.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/alien-arena.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-letodms-core.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 15 16:56:21 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-15-16.30.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-15-16.30.html
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<tyhicks> thanks
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> thanks jdstrand
 * Laney shines the DMB's logo into the sky
<Laney> (it's a turtle)
<ScottK> \o
<ScottK> What's on the agenda for today?
<Laney> Only actioning someone who will do it to write up the proposal
<Laney> Or we could take the time to do some of it right now
 * tumbleweed sees we are due for a CC catch-up this week
 * stgraber waves
<Laney> since we're all free for an hour, yes?
<tumbleweed> right now has my vote (better than never)
<Laney> someone set us up the pad
<ScottK> Now is good.  I'm on vacation this week, so my IRC will be very intermittent and I'm here now.
<Laney> I just sat down outside with $beer and $laptop and now I have to go and find $yubikey
 * Laney slaps SSO
<Laney> OK, let's just use the existing one then: http://pad.ubuntu.com/dmb-ppu-membership-proposal
<Laney> Dinner's beeping
<Laney> someone take over what I was writing for 5 minutes?
 * ScottK need to take a short break too.
<Laney> OK
<ScottK> Back
<Laney> I'm not sure if this paragraph actually represents the consensus
<Laney> please sanity check it
<Laney> (the last one I've written)
<micahg-work> I think it reflects the vote, I'm not sure it reflects consensus
<Laney> haha
<Laney> Like, should we enumerate the initial list of sets
<Laney> or is it "packages on any media"?
<Laney> or ...?
<micahg-work> oh, surely
<micahg-work> to enumeration
<micahg-work> no, I don't think packages on any media should be a requirement
<ScottK> Is there such a thing as "non-uploading dev members"?
<micahg-work> ScottK, yes, formerly universe contributors
<ScottK> Line 42 now.
<ScottK> Ah, right.
<ScottK> They are members, but not ubuntu-dev.
<micahg-work> right
<micahg-work> I
<Laney> omg
<Laney> I don't know what to write
<Laney> approve/????
 * Laney fails at english
<Laney> approve/disapprove sounds weird to me
 * ScottK rewords
<Laney> thanks
<ScottK> Not sure we're on the same thing.
<Laney> oh, the thing about asking the TB to do something with it
<barry> Laney: "adopted or revised"?
<Laney> I reworded it to not make me have to decide :P
<barry> :)
<ScottK> There.
 * ScottK fixed it harder
<Laney> ta
<Laney> that's me more or less out of steam
<Laney> so feel free to improve it from here
<micahg-work> ssh laney; sudo apt-get install steam
<Laney> heh
<Laney> I had to /remove/ that because my SSD ran out of space
<Laney> (because I've given over half of it to GameOS for steam... :P)
<ScottK> Who's in favor of these proposed amendments?
<micahg-work> o/
<tumbleweed> vaguely in favour of 1. fairly ambivilant about 2
<ScottK> I'm strongly against #1.
<stgraber> I'm against both
<ScottK> non-developers shouldn't be voting for the DMB/TB.
<micahg-work> ScottK, #2 is for developers without upload rights
<ScottK> I'm at least slightly ambivalent about that one.
<tumbleweed> re #1, these are developers, just not uploaders
<ScottK> I'm mostly against though.
<barry> i'm against #2
<micahg-work> oops, did I get my number wrong
<micahg-work> I meant 1
<ScottK> If UCD can vote for DMB, then they can also vote for/against the DMB people that will approve their eventual dev application.
<barry> it seems like #1 should be in favor though, right?  members even if they're not developers, should get a vote?
<ScottK> That's pretty backwards.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: s/UCD/PPU/ and does it actually change anything?
<ScottK> barry: membership gets you a vote in the CC election.
<ScottK> UCD can't vote to DMB/TB now.
<micahg-work> ScottK, why can't you say the same about PPU?  according to that, only core-dev should vote for DMB/TB
<ScottK> Someone with PPU + membership has a combination of assessed technical capability and sustained contribution to the project that make it appropriate, IMO, for them to vote for TB/DMB.
<ScottK> Neither PPU without member nor UCD have both those.
<ScottK> Neither should vote for DMB/TB.
<micahg-work> ScottK, why is it any different from a non-uploading DD having a vote in project elections
<ScottK> Project elections are more like the CC vote, where they do have a vote.
<micahg-work> GRs can be technical though?
<ScottK> True.
<tumbleweed> UCD aren't equivalent to non-uploading DDs (nwhich is a horrible term)
<ScottK> We don't have an equivalent of a GR though.
<tumbleweed> they got membership through devolpment, just not upload rights
<tumbleweed> non-uploading DDs don't need upload rights because they aren't developers
<ScottK> Changing who votes for TB/DMB isn't needed to solve the problem of separating membership from PPU.
<tumbleweed> agreed
<micahg-work> true
<ScottK> Since it is controversial, I propose we drop it for now and focus on only the changes we really need to accomplish this goal.
<stgraber> +1
<barry> +1
<micahg-work> ok, I removed it, I'll mull it over a bit more, if I feel it's worth doing, I'll make a proposal once this is done
<ScottK> For the core-packages/membership question, I think it's fair to have a rule that says they generally do, but there may be exceptional cases.
<micahg-work> well, I think it should be the exceptional case where membership is required, if we don't trust the person to be uploading, then we don't trust them
<ScottK> For individual packages, I can see that.
<tumbleweed> on the whole, our actively involved developers should be members
<tumbleweed> bleh, let me not start down that road
<ScottK> No, I agree with that.
<tumbleweed> I don't see the membership thing as a trust thing
<micahg-work> right, the goal isn't the build an army of non-member developers here, but rather to let them start helping if they have the skills on the path to membership IMHO
<tumbleweed> but I guess some people do
<tumbleweed> right
<ScottK> micahg-work: One can help without upload rights.
<ScottK> Generally core packages won't be the "DD who has a vague interest in making sure his packages work on Ubuntu" case
<micahg-work> right, but it could be a DD who also uses Ubuntu and wishes to help keep things running smoothly
<ScottK> If that's the case, they'll probably usually qualify for membership.
<micahg-work> not necessarily
<Laney> I was hoping the vote would mean we didn't have to reopen this question
<ScottK> I think we can decide on a case by case basis if it's needed or not.
<micahg-work> core has a bunch of stuff that seemingly doesn't belong, but I guess those are bugs
<ScottK> Or reasonable cases for exceptions.
<Laney> Can we avoid seeming arbitrary and/or confusing if there are exceptions?
<ScottK> Either way, I don't think we should block on getting this exactly right.
<ScottK> No, but so what.
<ScottK> Any time the DMB applies judgment, some will see it as being arbitrary.
<ScottK> It's not an avoidable problem.
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> so, are we done?
<ScottK> Can someone who's not me or micahg-work write something in there about discretion about if core package PPU needs membership or not?
<ScottK> Then I think we're done.
<Laney> I suppose it's not so bad if we're not expecting people to explicitly say they want membership all the time
<ScottK> I'd expect to discuss it with the applicant if there was doubt.
 * ScottK has to go.
<Laney> OK I added a ()sentence about it
<Laney> everyone read it over and I'll send it some time this week
<barry> Laney: thanks
<tumbleweed> yeah
<micahg-work> Laney, thanks
 * tumbleweed will re-read tomorrow. knackered, going to bed
<Laney> nn
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-16
<lool> Hi!
<lool> stgraber, ogra_: around?
<stgraber> yep
 * rsalveti waves
<lool> so notes from last week are at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/07/09/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<lool> and I think stgraber's message sums up plans for last week: so notes: stgraber => work on the upgrader code, test/integrate the client in dailies, fix bugs on system-image; barry => fix a downloader timeout bug, update default config, update client in the archive, help mandel with packging the DL service; ogra => fixing issues with flipped, helping ports move to the new model; ondra => update recovery to make missing ubuntu_command a non-error
<lool> IIUC, we have gpg/tar-xz support in the recovery now, basic support for ubuntu_command and we pickup cdimage builds on system-image.u.c, correct?
<lool> stgraber: how are things looking end to end from your pov?
<stgraber> we don't have gpg support, but the rest is true
<stgraber> gpg was stuck on getting the archive tarball in the recovery partition, I now have instructions from ondra for that so I'll try to get this done today/tomorrow
<lool> the archive tarball?
<stgraber> besides that, things look good. I'm now looking at patching phablet-flash to support read-only image bootstraping and I'm also looking at reducing the size of some of the delta
<stgraber> lool: the archive-master tarball which contains the archive master keyring used to create the chain of trust
<lool> but wont this be part of the recovery image build?
<barry> it's currently part of the system-image-common package
<stgraber> we need it in both
<stgraber> it's fine in the Ubuntu image and that side works fine, but we now need it in the recovery partition for the upgrader
<stgraber> I've got instructions from ondra on how to do that, just didn't get to it yet
<lool> rsalveti: is there an existing case of taking data out of .debs and stuffing them in android (recovery) builds?
<lool> stgraber: Ah I thought you had instructions to add them manually to the recovery
<lool> stgraber: ok, so you'll add that to the recovery build, fine
<stgraber> yep
<lool> barry: so you've managed to integrate with mandel's download service and it has all the features you needed?  :-)
<stgraber> the file itself won't ever change (unless our archive master key is compromised but then we're in a huge lot of trouble on every single Ubuntu system), so I wouldn't bother about syncing from the Ubuntu package
<barry> lool: heh, not yet.  i'm still waiting to hear back from mandel
<lool> barry: ah what's the blocker?
<barry> i don't think the packaging is done yet
<lool> barry: is he on leave this week?
 * barry checks the calendar
<lool> ogra_: in the mean time, how are things going with the flipped images?
<lool> do we have known regressions remaining?
<barry> lool: doesn't appear to be
<ogra_> well, races
<ogra_> we are waiting for an upstart-android-bridge that will hook into the container
<lool> barry: would be good to get an update from him; would you mind pinging him + Cc:ing me?
<ogra_> with that it will be possible to adjust our upstart jobs properly to get around the current races
<barry> lool: i'll email (irc pings unanswered)
<ogra_> beyond that, flipped is fine
<lool> barry: the other dep I think you were waiting on was design team; did we reach a conclusion on UI for OS updates?
<ogra_> we are working on getting the ports over as well this week
<barry> stgraber: didn't you send a ping to design team?  did you hear back from them?
<lool> barry: I think we should move forward and implement a basic UI for end-to-end testing; we can update it once we have the design
<barry> lool: we do have a basic dbus api mapped out.  that's probably the next step since the u/i will have to talk to that
<lool> barry: like a launch icon which launches an app testing for latest update and synchronously downloads them if any
<barry> LP: #1192585
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192585 in Ubuntu system image "Add a dbus API" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192585
<stgraber> barry: I heard back from mpt that they'll try and figure out who will be working on it
<lool> barry: So that's a dbus api on top of a permanently running python implemented service to request e.g. "check for updates"?
<stgraber> barry: Steve also pinged the design team and came back to me saying that whenever we actually get blocked on this, we should just implement a basic UI and use that until they come up with a design
<barry> it will run on demand
<lool> stgraber, barry: I don't think we want to block on design if they don't have someone assigned already
<barry> fair enough
<lool> barry: I guess python after dbus activation that exits afterwards is fine; it would really be best to switch to some C download service though for the memory consumption
<stgraber> oh, also a quick heads up, I'm at a sprint all of next week in London, then on vacation most of the week after that (just working on Friday), then on vacation Monday->Wednesday the week after and the week after that I'll be at debconf
<lool> stgraber: that means we need to have this switched over this week?  :-)
<stgraber> just means that I won't be attending the meeting for the next month ;)
<barry> lool: yes, we definitely want the new dbus d/l service
<stgraber> I'll still be working at least one day every week, so just make sure you're not blocked on me, if you are, let's talk this week, for anything else, I'll be reading my e-mails and replying whenever I can
<lool> stgraber: well we seem to be almost there, just missing the final gpg validation data in the recovery and the UI to trigger it all, the bootstrap changes you're working on, and that's it -- right?
<lool> stgraber: ideally we'd have everyone using this instead of phablet-flash this week and deal with issues next week while you're still mostly working (except on release sprint)
<stgraber> I think so, the rest we're mostly blocked on ogra_'s team giving us the go ahead to switch everyone (would be nice not to be the only one testing those read-only images ;))
<lool> stgraber: do we have all images available?  can we send a call for testing like today or tomorrow?
<barry> lool: while not ideal, we can today ask people to test updates via cli
<stgraber> we don't have a mechanism to upgrade the recovery partition cleanly yet, so I'd prefer to have the upgrader complete before we do that
<stgraber> we also should run a test on all 4 devices before sending any kind of call for testing
<lool> barry: That's definitely better than nothing and will help switching
<ogra_> stgraber, well, it is blocked on claick packages, we cant go readonly without them
<ogra_> *click
<stgraber> ogra_: right
<lool> barry: would you think you could build a minimal UI to trigger the update this week?  download service can be done next week (but still we ought to ping mandel)
<lool> ogra_: hmm not sure I see the link
<barry> lool: so minimal ui first?  i can certainly take a crack at it.  there's nothing like crappy ui to motivate design to give us something better :)
<ogra_> lool, you cant install anything on a ro device and apt will be disabled
<lool> ogra_: you mean people still need to apt-get install to do stuff, so we can't run their OS install r/o?
<lool> barry: exactly, make it pink with cat pictures
<stgraber> lool: without click we'd need everyone to stay in developer mode which effectively means no actual testers
 * barry loves pink cats
<ogra_> the schedule was to have click packages first before we switch to a ro rootfs
<lool> well, maybe not with cat pictures as these tend to get too popular
<barry> salamanders
<stgraber> it's fine on my devices because I don't actually use them but I'd expect our current userbase to be annoyed not being able to use PPAs
<lool> rsalveti, ogra_: what do people typically install?  should we prepare a recipe to either create a separate chroot under their data partition, or give instructions to deploy from bzr branches or something?
<ogra_> well, they dont care about PPAs
<ogra_> they all want to install apps though :)
<lool> I don't want us to block on full blown click packges to start using OS updater
<lool> ogra_: what apps?  core apps?
<sergiusens> lool: all the community core apps, that's what they install
<lool> could we deliver them easily in some other way?
<sergiusens> and the public collections
<ogra_> lool, we have like 30 apps or so ... people install all kinds of them to help testing the app teams etc
<rsalveti> problem is that without click packages people will enable dev mode right after flashing
<sergiusens> lool: I have all of the community core ones here: http://people.canonical.com/~sergiusens/click_packages/ daily built
<ogra_> what rsalveti said
<ogra_> we dotn want normal users to run dev more
<ogra_> mode
<sergiusens> lool: just need to hook it up to the image builders
<ogra_> that defeats the purpose
<lool> rsalveti, ogra_: I understand that while we're telling people to install .debs to get core apps this will be an issue, but I'm looking for an interim option until we have click packgaes
<rsalveti> sergiusens: what would be a feasible eta for this?
<sergiusens> and we need cjwatson to finish the .desktop file integration or hack something in during build
<lool> (but I'll check where we are with click in next meeting  :-)
<ogra_> lool, we have click packages
<ogra_> just not integrated yet
<ogra_> and it might take another week until everything is in order
<rsalveti> will cjwatson be in sprint mode next week as well?
<ogra_> oh, right
<lool> he's definitely going there, but perhaps not all week
<ogra_> and debconf
<ogra_> he said
<lool> crap
<stgraber> there are two weeks between the sprint and Debconf
<lool> sergiusens: can we integrate the apps in the OS builds for now?
<lool> that's already 90% of the use cases I bet
<stgraber> it's just that I'm personally taking most of that time on leave, cjwatson is IIRC taking the week after Debconf instead
<ogra_> lool, that the plan for core apps atm
<sergiusens> lool: if the image builders can see that lillypilly uri I just shared, yes we can hook it in
<lool> stgraber: do we have instructions to reset an install from r/o to rw?
<stgraber> lool: touch /userdata/.developer_mode
<sergiusens> lool: and have that same hook mangle the desktop file (copy to ~phablet)
<ogra_> sergiusens, they definitely can ... they pull from ~/ubuntu-archive already from that machine
<stgraber> lool: or if you want to switch back to the current flipped model, then wipe all of /userdata and reflash in bootstrap mode
<ogra_> stgraber, and reboot :P
<lool> stgraber: ok; and one can return to system-image builds by redoing a bootstrap?
<stgraber> ogra_: or mount -o remount,rw /
<sergiusens> ogra_: ok, let me write a hook for livecd-rootfs and make sure I make no mention of the word ppa :-)
<ogra_> stgraber, URGH
<ogra_> stgraber, "wipe all of userdata" ?!?
<lool> stgraber: sorry I meant the new bootstrap
<ogra_> stgraber, it isnt enough to just remove the touched file ?
<ogra_> (i.e. i will lose all my data)
<cjwatson> desktop file integration is next on my list
<stgraber> ogra_: to switch back to system-image, yes, to switch back to standard flipped, a lot more moving stuff around is involved
<ogra_> oh, standard flipped
<cjwatson> I will be mostly in sprint mode next week but no doubt I'll get some click work done as well
<ogra_> i hope to be able to drop that once we know loop works
<cjwatson> it's a hacking sprint more than a meeting sprint
<ogra_> so people wouldnt have a reason to switch "back" to that :)
<lool> cjwatson: there was a worry earlier from ogra about skipping cdimage for the new system-image.u.c touch OS images; is this a concern of yours?
<cjwatson> lool: Not sure I understand?
<ogra_> lool, i simply misunderstood the plans, stgraber explained it, its all fine
<lool> cjwatson, ogra_: alright nevermind
<cjwatson> ok
<lool> Ok; we're out of time, I'll try to sum up the plan
<ogra_> cjwatson, i understood the image builds were supposed to happen on s.u.c
<ogra_> but that was wrong, they just get moved over
<lool> I think I'll setup some time this week with stgraber+barry to prepare a call for testers
<ogra_> (and post processed)
<barry> +1
<stgraber> lool: I've been making notes for a blog post last week, though don't want to publish it until we know it can be used day to day on all 4 devices, that last thing we want is people saying that this stuff doesn't work and revert their device
<lool> so plan for next week: * barry builds a minimal client UI + dbus API to trigger updates manually while we miss design  * barry/lool ping mandel over email on downloadservice  * stgraber finishes integration of GPG bits in recovery  * stgraber/lool/barry prep call for testing
<lool> stgraber barry: ok; let's chat about this in a meeting for instance tomorrow where we hash out the call for testing?
<lool> perhaps we can find a subset of people to get feedback from, and then expand
<lool> rsalveti, sergiusens: You guys ever tried the new OS updates manually?
<barry> sounds good
<rsalveti> not yet
<ogra_> lool, we had massive infrastructure probs, build failures and asac this week
<stgraber> lool: hopefully once I have the new flag in phablet-flash, that'll make things much simpler
<lool> cjwatson: the click package relationship is that because people today apt-get install stuff but we're switching to read-only OS install, we really need click as a vehicle for things that need to be added to devices; we're going to preload as much as possible in the mean time
<sergiusens> lool: only when it was a stub
<ogra_> we're all a bit relayed with our TODOs atm
<lool> sergiusens: I forgot an action for you to add the core apps to the OS install (if that's ok?)
<ogra_> *delayed
<sergiusens> lool: and the ubuntu_commands file isn't deleted so every time you go into recovery it does the demo upgrade and reboots btw ;-)
<lool> ogra_: "massive infrastructure probs, build failures and asac this weel"
<lool> *week
<sergiusens> lool: yes, I have that in progress :-)
<ogra_> lool, yeah :)
<stgraber> sergiusens: yeah, I'll add an rm at the end ;)
<ogra_> lool, all of them cause unplanned actions and delays
<sergiusens> stgraber: +1
<ogra_> :)
<lool> sounds like asac felt down on you like the plague!  :-)   asac is cracking the whip for sure, but in the right direction to fix these!  ;-)
<stgraber> sergiusens: for now it's actually been useful for me to check what was in the generated file before it vanishes, but I think I trust barry's code now
 * barry exhales :)
<ogra_> lool, well, the issue is that we suddenly have some unscheduled things to do that delay planned work
<lool> sergiusens: does it sound possible to get the apps integrated this week before the call for testing gets out?
<ogra_> lool, i totally agree it is good :)
<lool> ok, we're way over time
<lool> Anything else anyone?
<sergiusens> lool: yes, my blocker was IS and that's resolved, I jsut need to write the hook
<lool> sergiusens: cool
<lool> stgraber, barry, ogra_, rsalveti, sergiusens: All good?
<sergiusens> lool: this will include all the community core apps, the canonical ones are a bit more tricky
<barry> yep
<sergiusens> lool: all good
<stgraber> we'll need some changes to initrd+lxc-android-config to make the various paths used by click writable, but I'll look into that once we actually have click working in the images
<ogra_> lool, like we went from "get rid of PPAs soon" to get rid of PPAs *now* which means work planned for i.e. the end of the month has to be higher prio now ... etc etc
 * lool hugs you all in a big squeesh and closes meeting
<ogra_> :)
 * lool waves
<ogra_> thanks for running it
<barry> lool: thanks
<lool> will setup a call for testers meeting with barry and stgraber
<cjwatson> lool: Yeah, understood
<adam_g> o/
<yolanda> hi
<adam_g> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 16 16:00:08 2013 UTC.  The chair is adam_g. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<adam_g> hi all
<adam_g> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<adam_g> arosales to carry out post-meeting procedure (minutes, etc) documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase for meeting of 25 June
<adam_g> arosales, any update?
<arosales> adam_g, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20130625
<adam_g> arosales, cool.
<adam_g> Daviey to speak to Percona about Saucy inclusion
<adam_g> Daviey, any update on percona in saucy?
<Daviey> adam_g: I have emailed them
<arosales> adam_g, a couple of week late :-/ but finally got there.  I'll be sure to get it out to the list and blog next time I chair (apologies).
<Daviey> awaiting response
<Daviey> adam_g: feel free to remove that from the agenda
<Daviey> it's inhand
<adam_g> Daviey, ack
<adam_g> rbasak to land delta report to lp:ubuntu-reports, Daviey to deploy
<rbasak> I've got the script ready to go, just need to integrate with lp:ubuntu-reports now
<adam_g> rbasak, cool. is there a merge proposal somewhere yet?
<rbasak> No - Daviey took me through the code earlier so I know what to do now. You should see one this week.
<Daviey> super
<adam_g> sweet
<adam_g> i'll leave it on the agenda
<adam_g> #ACTION rbasak to land delta report to lp:ubuntu-reports, Daviey to deploy
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to land delta report to lp:ubuntu-reports, Daviey to deploy
<adam_g> zul has willfully volunteered to review and document what is blocking server related saucy-proposed migration excuses, with joy.
<zul> no joy...apache2 is still making its way through debian and sqlalchemy needs to be done as well
<Daviey> following -release channel, apache2 is making progress
<Daviey> as is php5 (thanks to rbasak)
<adam_g> ok, ill leave that there as well.
<rbasak> php5 seems to have reverse build depends blocking migration to saucy now :-(
<adam_g> moving on?
<rbasak> Some may just need rebuilds
<adam_g> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Saucy Development
<adam_g> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<adam_g> Daviey, you want the mic for this?
<Daviey> ok!
<Daviey> bug 1196921 is feeling wedged
<ubottu> bug 1196921 in vim (Ubuntu Saucy) "updating packages to lua5.2 in main" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196921
<Daviey> rrdtool is our problem
<Daviey> Does someone want to volunteer to look at that?
<Daviey> might be trivial...
<jamespage> ill do it
<Daviey> jamespage: maybe someone else? :)
<yolanda> Daviey, if it's an easy one i can volunteer
<jamespage> if no-one else can
<Daviey> yolanda: Super!  Have a look at it and see what it involves?
<yolanda> sure
<Daviey> bug 1183634
<ubottu> bug 1183634 in cheetah (Ubuntu Saucy) "cheetah pkg does not depend on markdown, but egg requires.txt does" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1183634
<Daviey> adam_g: ^
<jamespage> that should be won't fix
<jamespage> once the MIR goes though no?
<adam_g> Daviey, should be good. both python-markdown and python-tidylib got promoted okay to main. just need a new cheetah that Depends on them, and dropping of our patch there
<Daviey> adam_g: super, so next upload?
<adam_g> Daviey, yup. stuff got promoted just recently, ill propose a new cheetah package todya
<Daviey> supr
<Daviey> bug 1199791
<ubottu> bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199791
<Daviey> zul: ^ ?
<Daviey> bug 1190038, adam_g ?
<ubottu> bug 1190038 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "keystone-all fails to start: : The Keystone paste configuration file keystone-paste.ini could not be found." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190038
<zul> Daviey:  ugh
<adam_g> Daviey, fix committed pending a new keystone upload
<Daviey> super
<Daviey> rbasak: bug 1031680  ?
<ubottu> bug 1031680 in nagios-plugins (Ubuntu Raring) "check_apt always report 0 critical updates" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031680
<Daviey> adam_g: bug 1197163 ?
<ubottu> bug 1197163 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-xvpvncproxy installs no upstart job" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197163
<rbasak> I've not looked at that.
<adam_g> Daviey, fix committed pending a new nova upload
<Daviey> rbasak: Oh, i thought you were looking at that one, sorry
<smoser> o/
<Daviey> smoser: are you looking at bug 1031680 ?
<rbasak> I'll add it to my list to at least look at. I can't remember if we can make progress on it or not.
<ubottu> bug 1031680 in nagios-plugins (Ubuntu Raring) "check_apt always report 0 critical updates" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031680
<smoser> no. i wasn't. i was just saying hello.
<Daviey> Oh, everyone say hello to smoser please
<Daviey> Hello smoser.
<rbasak> Hi smoser!
<Daviey> jamespage: bug 1170393 ?
<smoser> hi everyone.
 * jamespage waits for ubottu
<jamespage> bug 1170393
<jamespage> tap tap
<jamespage> is this thing on
<Daviey> jamespage: "Quantum services should be respawned by upstart if necessary"
<jamespage> on my todo list still - want to get the neutron name change out of the way first
<Daviey> Good thinking
<jamespage> there are also some new agents to enable
<Daviey> do we have a decent transition path?
<zul> Daviey:  its in progress
<jamespage> zul has made a start but its pretty ugly for existing configuration
<Daviey> jamespage: ISTR you were looking at bug 1196979 ?
<Daviey> jamespage: ugh
<Daviey> "[MIR] libasm4-java (b-d of jarjar)"
<jamespage> mhfjknjsnfdcs
<jamespage> forgot about that one
 * zul hopes openstack will never rename a project again
<jamespage> sorry
<Daviey> super
<jamespage> I think that will probably wash through in Debian first - I'll go talk with a few folks in the debian-java team
<Daviey> Any other issues pertinent ?
<jamespage> zul, you got the sqlalchemy stuff stored now
<rbasak> I'd like to flag https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/1199318. I tried to target it for Saucy but apparantly I still can't do that unless I'm missing something.
<jamespage> or is that still all held iup in proposed?
<Daviey> rbasak: ugh, i think you need to be core to target.  How silly.
<ubottu> bug 1170393 in quantum (Ubuntu Saucy) "Quantum services should be respawned by upstart if necessary" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170393
<ubottu> bug 1196979 in ow-util-ant-tasks (Ubuntu Saucy) "[MIR] libasm4-java (b-d of jarjar)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196979
<jamespage> rbasak, approved
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1199318 in apache2 (Ubuntu Saucy) "package apache2-utils 2.2.22-6ubuntu5 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/apport/package-hooks/apache2.py', which is also in package apache2.2-common 2.2.22-6ubuntu5" [High,Confirmed]
<zul> jamespage:  its still held up in proposed, but nova builds with 0.7.9+ now
<Daviey> okay, i think we should see if that one is still an issue when apache finishes it's miration/
<Daviey> migration*?
<rbasak> We can wait. Although I have a suspicion the underlying cause will remain.
<jamespage> I think it will be
<rbasak> Unless Debian fix it first.
<jamespage> what are we talking about now? apache2?
<Daviey> yes
<jamespage> thats the ubuntu apport hook
<jamespage> so its our bug
<rbasak> Ah
<rbasak> Good point.
<Daviey> right, but i wanted to see if it is still an issue when apache2 settles down
<jamespage> just needs the right breaks/replaces
<rbasak> How'd it manage to move from -common to -utils anyway?
<jamespage> one second - it looks like its in both?
<Daviey> lets defer it until next week, when the transition should be solved.
<rbasak> AIUI, it was in -common before, and is in -utils now.
<rbasak> And perhaps both though that's not clear.
<rbasak> We probably want it in -common and not -utils?
<Daviey> i suspect it did move, and Breaks/Replaces hasn't made sure the old one is uninstalled first.
<roaksoax> yeah it seems to be a Breaks/Replaces issue
<jamespage> anyway - lets let rbasak sort that one out
<Daviey> super
<Daviey> Move on?
<adam_g> sure.
<adam_g> blueprints!
<adam_g> #link  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-saucy/group/topic-saucy-servercloud-overview.html
<adam_g> hmm. thats a bad link
<Daviey> O RLY
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<Daviey> for some reason aucy was removed... *sigh*
<Daviey> adam_g: can you update the template please?
<Daviey> (Agenda)
<adam_g> Daviey, sure
<Daviey> [james-page] Resolve OpenSSL licensing issues with upstream: INPROGRESS <-- is that now done, jamespage ?
<jamespage> Daviey, almost
<jamespage> first part is in
<jamespage> just waiting for headers to appear on the relevant files
<jamespage> mongodb MIR may prove problematic
<Daviey> ok
<Daviey> ugh
<jamespage> I need to catchup with jdstand but I've been a bit busy
<Daviey> understood
<Daviey> rbasak: [racb] Complete and feed arm porting work back upstream: INPROGRESS ?
<Daviey> and the other arm work..
<rbasak> Oddly my double alignment patch doesn't seem to be needed any more. I need to double check.
<rbasak> I very quickly spoke to Jon Masters about the other patch at Linaro Connect. It sounded like he'd be happy to get it upstreamed as-is.
<rbasak> I need to follow up on both.
<Daviey> oh groovy!  If that is something you can look at this week, that will help improve the blueprint completeness :)
<Daviey> roaksoax: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms-ha-v2 ?
<Daviey> progress, seems, erm, less than ideal.
<jamespage> Daviey, we need to get the python redux out of the way first before we start adding new stuff
<Daviey> utlemming / ivoks: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-webscale .. how is that looking?
<Daviey> jamespage: what is the current status of redux?
<jamespage> most shared code is now into charm-helpers trunk
<utlemming> Daviey: with all the cloud stuff, I haven't even had a reasonable chance to look at it
<jamespage> glance (roaksoax) cinder (adam_g) and openstack-dashboard (me) all in flight
<jamespage> but looking good and working on juju-core
<jamespage> adam_g, anything further to add?
<adam_g> i expect the remaining python rewrites will all happen quickly with the shared code in one place and functional
<jamespage> adam_g, agreed
<Daviey> utlemming: would you be able to do a quick analysis by next week.. that is one work item, and may help guide the rest of the blueprint priority
<ivoks> Daviey: uh
<adam_g> with nova-cloud-controller being the most time consuming
<jamespage> I did the openstack-dashboard one in a few hours this morning
<utlemming> Daviey: sure, I'll take a look
<Daviey> utlemming: thanks
<adam_g> jamespage, cool!  i think swift-storage, nova-compute should be <2 hours easy
<roaksoax> Daviey: yeah i been concentrated on other things
<roaksoax> but I'll get there
<jamespage> adam_g, yeah
<Daviey> shall we set the goal of having the redux done by EOW/
<Daviey> ?
<ivoks> Daviey: sorry, ENOTIME
<jamespage> actually while we are discussing
<Daviey> ivoks: understood.. when do you think you will have time?
<Daviey> ivoks: or should we drop it?
<ivoks> Daviey: drop it for 13.10
 * jamespage defers
<adam_g> Daviey, i expect the nova-cloud-controller charm to take a bit longer, there are *many* duplicmate variations that need good testing.
<adam_g> Daviey, but the others + good progress on nova-c-c should be doable this week for sure
<Daviey> adam_g: If we set the goal, can you help identify where other people might be able to help?
<adam_g> uh s/duplicmate/deployment... but i like that new word, duplicmate
<Daviey> It would be super if we could get it cracked out this week
<adam_g> sure
<jamespage> maybe without full test coverage
<adam_g> ill sync with roaksoax later to see how he is doing on glance, and we can split up the remaning few charms between jamespage, roaksoax and myself
<jamespage> works for me
<Daviey> super
<Daviey> jamespage: yeah, done in principle is the target i think
<Daviey> QA & testing next week
<Daviey> zul: milestone h-2 this thurs, how are we looking for uploads?
<zul> Daviey:  better than yesterday nova is building locally with sqlalchemy 0.7.9
<Daviey> zul: Are we expecting a fullu functional h-2 in saucy by eow?
<zul> Daviey:  just trying to get people to look at them now
<zul> neutron and neurtronclient needs to MIRed again i think dont they
<Daviey> zul: what needs looking at?
<zul> nova/cinder/python-ceilometerclent so far
<Daviey> zul: I suspect neutron needs a ruber stamp, please can you reach out directly to mterry and check?
<zul> Daviey:  yep
<Daviey> zul: I'd really like to start getting it into UCA on Monday
<Daviey> Any other BP stuff from anyone?
<Daviey> adam_g: move on?
<jamespage> one more thing BP related
<jamespage> the one that never show up - ceph
<Daviey> Ugh
<jamespage> I stuffed a interim release into https://launchpad.net/~ceph-ubuntu/+archive/edgers
<adam_g> ... the one that got away
<jamespage> 0.66
<jamespage> we are getting pretty close to the dumpling release now (august)
<jamespage> so its an early preview for testing
<jamespage> won't land in distro
<Daviey> ok!
<Daviey> jamespage: have the BP link to hand?
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-ceph
<Daviey> ta
<adam_g> cool
<adam_g> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<adam_g> anything going on?
<adam_g> OSCON is next week. i know jorge castro will be there, i will at least be at some of the night events and BoFS
<Daviey> This Friday, openstack birthday being celebrated in London
<adam_g> i believe there will be an ubuntu server related BOF @ OSCON. ill post the date next meeting
<Daviey> (http://www.meetup.com/Openstack-London/)
<adam_g> cool
<adam_g> moving on?
<adam_g> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
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<psivaa> nothing much apart from this bug for us
<psivaa> bug #1197484
<ubottu> bug 1197484 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "Connection requests to saucy server VMs from a hosts fail after fresh VM installs" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197484
<psivaa> impacting the server smoke tests. jdstrand is working on to reproduce that outside qa lab
<psivaa> that's all from QA
<adam_g> psivaa, sounds fun. thanks. let us know if theres anything we can do to help test
<adam_g> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
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<smb> Got Xen-4.3 mostly prepared and running and starting to annoy people with sponsoring requests. Started with some libvirt updates to fix xm stack regression and support 4.3 in the xen driver. Right now wondering about how to make upgrades a bit more seamless (fix paths in xend configs add a script to convert xend persistent definitions into libxl ones for libvirt).
<adam_g> smb, o/
<smb> Oh and one more thing about xen 4.3: upstream dropped support for i386
<smb> on the hypervisor. So I dropped that from building. Not sure one can
<smb> do more in order to give people more warning. In theory the combo of
<smb> 64bit hypervisor and 32bit dom0 and tools should work but I don't know
<smb> how that combo would be mapped to debian packaging..
<smb> Apart from those minor details... any questions for me?
<adam_g> smb, thanks for the xen update
<adam_g> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<adam_g> rbasak, anything new to report?
<rbasak> Nothing new to report, really. mongodb ARM patch status as above.
<rbasak> I have a golang fix in hand and will upload soon.
<jamespage> \o/
<Daviey> \o/
<adam_g> cool
<jamespage> apparently stripping go binaires breaks stuff
<Daviey> oh?
<rbasak> My reading of Debian policy is that stripping is "should" not "must" so we can drop dh_strip.
<jamespage> yes
<rbasak> golang upstream doesn't use the normal toolchain.
<rbasak> And upstream don't support strip.
<jamespage> some binaries where already selectively excluded - we are just increasing the scope a bit
<rbasak> They say it breaks things. Evidently it does.
<adam_g> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> I think they might be Doing It Wrong, but I don't know enough to argue. They're upstream, it doesn't break policy so we might as well do what they say here. Given the other stuff we have to do with golang, this is trivial I think.
<Daviey> zul, smoser, roaksoax, adam_g, matsubara: you are al rubbish
<Daviey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/WeeklyDunk/Week29
<zul> Daviey:  thanks for the vote of confidence
<jamespage> zul, whats 'Example'? :-)
<Daviey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2013-July/006679.html
<jamespage> sounds interesting
<zul> jamespage:  its my new secret project
<jamespage> ooooooo
<Daviey> Anybody not listed that wants to add an entry, feel free!
<Daviey> More the merry.
<Daviey> smoser: i take back your suck, you have done yours.
<Daviey> EOF
<smoser> of course i suck.
<adam_g> Daviey, sorry, was out Fri will get updated today
<zul> Daviey: btw is al rubish my new name
<Daviey> super, thanks adam_g
<adam_g> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<adam_g> next meeting will be Tuesday July 23rd
<adam_g> chaired by the honorable James Page
<roaksoax> THE James Page!
<Daviey> super, thanks for chairing adam_g
<arosales> thanks for chairing adam_g
<adam_g> over-and-out
<adam_g> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 16 16:56:38 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-16-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-16-16.00.html
<jamespage> ta adam_g
<smb> o/
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 16 17:00:14 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<kamal> o/
<smb> o/
<bjf> \o
<cking> o/
<rtg> o/
<apw> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> yeek, one sec
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || foundations-1305-kernel        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || sforshee  || pm-system-policy               || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-s-virtstack        || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (bjf)
<ogasawara> Our master branch for Saucy has been rebased to v3.10.1 and uploaded.
<ogasawara> We have also rebased our unstable branch to begin tracking v3.11-rc1.
<ogasawara> I would also like to take this time to point out that the 12.04.3 point
<ogasawara> release is approaching on Thurs Aug 22.  Any kernel patches needing to
<ogasawara> land in the 12.04.3 point release needs to be applied to our Raring
<ogasawara> kernel tree on or before Mon July 29 in order to hit the SRU cadence
<ogasawara> before the point release.  Please get any patches submitted to the
<ogasawara> mailing list for proper review as soon as possible.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> Thurs July 25 - Alpha 2 (opt in)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 22 - 12.04.3 (~5 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (July 2):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Bug verification
<bjf>   * Precise - Bug verification
<bjf>   * Quantal - Bug verification
<bjf>   * Raring  - Bug verification
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 16 17:06:33 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-16-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-16-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
* holmes.freenode.net changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<czajkowski> costales: SergioMeneses PabloRubianes itnet7 ping 2 mins to meeting
<costales> czajkowski ;)
<PabloRubianes> here czajkowski
<Neo31> Hello czajkowski SergioMeneses PabloRubianes itnet7 costales :)
<costales> Hi Neo31 :)
<PabloRubianes> hi neo31
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 16 20:00:40 2013 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> aloha folks and thank you all for coming to the LoCo council meeting this month
<czajkowski> #chair costales PabloRubianes SergioMeneses itnet7
<meetingology> Current chairs: PabloRubianes SergioMeneses costales czajkowski itnet7
<costales> Hi everyone! :)
<czajkowski> #voters PabloRubianes SergioMeneses costales itnet7 czajkowski
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes SergioMeneses costales czajkowski itnet7
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda  tonights agenda
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<czajkowski> So this evening unless there are any objections we'll go through the list as they appear on the wiki
<czajkowski> right
<czajkowski> #topic Japanese Team reapproval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Japanese Team reapproval
<czajkowski> anyone here for the Japaenese team ?
<SergioMeneses> hi guys
<jkbys> I'm from Japanese Team
<czajkowski> jkbys: hey there
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JapaneseTeam/ReApprovalApplication2013
<costales> Hi jkbys and good luck! :)
<czajkowski> Thanks for coming
<czajkowski> nice application
<jkbys> Hi all
<SergioMeneses> hi jkbys
<czajkowski> so jkbys care to just tell us a little about your team and how things are doing
<PabloRubianes> Hi jkbys
<czajkowski> jkbys: if you'd prefer to prepare some text in a document and tranlsate it via google that is fine
<czajkowski> I appreicate it's also late over there
<czajkowski> hmm maybe the connection is gone
<czajkowski> I dont have any questions but I do like the application and think the team is doing a great job
<jkbys> We continued to attend meetings, writing articles for this two years
<SergioMeneses> jkbys, I see your wiki pretty nice and good information
<czajkowski> yes you have been busy.
<czajkowski> jkbys: have you had any issues? or things the council can help with ?
<SergioMeneses> the magazine is awesome http://ubuntu.asciimw.jp/elem/000/000/010/10362/
<czajkowski> costales: PabloRubianes any other questions I think we're all ready to vote :)
<PabloRubianes> czajkowski: I'm ok, they are working really good
<czajkowski> #vote please vote on the reapproval of the Japanese Team.
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on the reapproval of the Japanese Team.
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<czajkowski> +1 excellent work folks
<meetingology> +1 excellent work folks received from czajkowski
<SergioMeneses> I'm going to share an advice: more pictures for the next process
<PabloRubianes> +1 keep the work!
<meetingology> +1 keep the work! received from PabloRubianes
<jkbys> thank you
<SergioMeneses> +1 keep working
<meetingology> +1 keep working received from SergioMeneses
<costales> of course +1 Keep your awesome work!! :D And thanks!
<czajkowski> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on the reapproval of the Japanese Team.
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<jkbys> SergioMeneses: I see
<czajkowski> excellent work
<tdr112> well done
<SergioMeneses> jkbys, :)
<SergioMeneses> congrats guys!
<czajkowski> #action add Japanese team to the launchpad team
<meetingology> ACTION: add Japanese team to the launchpad team
<costales> Congrats Japanese Team! :D
<jkbys> Thank you all
<Neo31> congrats jkbys
<elacheche> Congrats Japanese Team!
<elacheche> :)
<airurando> congrats jkbys
<czajkowski> #topic Tunisian Team reapproval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Tunisian Team reapproval
<czajkowski> good evening folks thanks for coming along
<Neo31> I will be representing the Tunisian Team
<czajkowski> so who here is from the Tunisian team
<czajkowski> Neo31: welocme
<czajkowski> *Welcome
<SergioMeneses> Neo31, hi
<costales> Hi Neo31 and good luck! :)
<Neo31> I am Ahmed Sghaier, ubuntu-tn loco contact
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2013
<nizarus> o/
<geekette> O/
<elacheche> O/
<costales> 6 Ubuntu Members! wow! :)
<czajkowski> nice detailed wiki
<czajkowski> thank you :)
<issam__> O/
<Neo31> thank you :)
<czajkowski> so Neo31 just tell us a little about your team and the things you do
<Neo31> yes
<czajkowski> any thing you've found that worked or have struggled with
<Neo31> we do a variety of activities but mostly we concentrate on IRL events and promoting Ubuntu and FLOSS culture in the tunisian community
<czajkowski> nods
<SergioMeneses> :)
<Neo31> we provide supports for the users and we do our best to contribute to ubuntu by translations etc and we run training for packaging and other sorts of contributions
<Neo31> we have done more than 30 events since last reapproval
<SergioMeneses> guys I think you should use more often the locoportal for your events http://loco.ubuntu.com/
<Neo31> i also invite you to check some of the photos following the best of photos albums
<Neo31> sure SergioMeneses
<czajkowski> Neo31: wow 30
<czajkowski> impressive
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, an important number :)
<czajkowski> I think the work you are doing is amazing and having that many events shows me how active and organised you guys are
<czajkowski> my only comment would also to echo SergioMeneses in please use the loco team portal
<SergioMeneses> it is an amazing work - imho
<czajkowski> it's the best place to showcase al the work being done by teams in real life of online and also great to have all the evnets in one place
<czajkowski> costales: PabloRubianes any comments
<costales> No czajkowski , nice work!
<PabloRubianes> Impressive work!
<costales> You did a lot of events
<PabloRubianes> Neo31: have any new goal in the team?
<Neo31> yes
<Neo31> it is detailed on the page that we have been able to fulfill most of our last goals
<costales> Neo31, What has been the most important event?
<czajkowski> Neo31: have you antyhing you need from the council ?
<Neo31> now we are looking forward to improve our activities, team members and release a magazine this year
<czajkowski> wow :)
<PabloRubianes> Neo31: really good!
<Neo31> we are doing quite well until now. in case we need more assistance we will contact you
<czajkowski> #vote please vote on the re approval of the Tunisian Team
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on the re approval of the Tunisian Team
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<costales> sure! ;)
<czajkowski> +1 well done
<meetingology> +1 well done received from czajkowski
<PabloRubianes> +1 impressive work!, keep the hard work
<meetingology> +1 impressive work!, keep the hard work received from PabloRubianes
<costales> +1 Great work! keep it! :D And thanks!
<meetingology> +1 Great work! keep it! :D And thanks! received from costales
<SergioMeneses> +1 excellent
<meetingology> +1 excellent received from SergioMeneses
<czajkowski> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on the re approval of the Tunisian Team
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<costales> Congrats Tunisian Team!!
<SergioMeneses> congrats guys!
<Neo31> thank you very much :)
<czajkowski> #action add Tunisian team to launchpad team
<meetingology> ACTION: add Tunisian team to launchpad team
<tdr112> great work
<czajkowski> Neo31: thank you for coming along!
<czajkowski> #topic Ireland Team re approval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ireland Team re approval
<elacheche> Thank you guys :)
<nizarus> Neo31, lunapersa, geekette, elacheche etc... are doing a good job :) big up
<airurando> congrats Tunisian Team
<Neo31> we will do our best to keep up the good work and do even better
<geekette> Thx guys
<lunapersa> :')
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/IrishTeamReApprovalApplication2013
<tdr112> hello
<czajkowski> Evening folks :) who's here from Ireland
<Neo31> thanks to all present ubuntu-tn members :)
<zmoylan> hi
<airurando> hi everyone
 * tdr112 Is
<czajkowski> also to note I won't be voting in this application :)
<SergioMeneses> welcome ubuntu irish team
<PabloRubianes> Welcome to the Irish team
<SergioMeneses> hey Laura appears in the picture jeje
<czajkowski> thanks for coming airurando
<czajkowski> photos do exist of me :)
<SergioMeneses> nice
<czajkowski> so airurando care to tell us how the irish team is doing ?
<airurando> As our Team POC has forgotten I'll fill in
<airurando> When compared against our activity up to June 2011 the last two years have been considerably quieter in the Irish Team.
<czajkowski> no worries
<airurando> Having said that there is still some significant activity in our LoCo.
<SergioMeneses> airurando, does your team only have 4 ubuntu members?
<airurando> SergioMeneses: yes I believe so.  2 former Ubuntu members appear to have let their membership lapse.
<czajkowski> airurando: nods so teams do go through phases of being very active to being active in various ways
<czajkowski> the very fact you guys care so much and are here today shows us the team is active
<airurando> I became an Ubuntu Member earlier thus year
<czajkowski> \o/
<airurando> so net reduction is only 1
<airurando> :-)
<SergioMeneses> airurando, ok
<airurando> lots of Ubuntu hours and release parties.
<tdr112> airurando: has startes to do a lot of work to give thw loco some much needed cpr
<tdr112> started
<czajkowski> airurando: so what do you think is the best thing that works for the team, is it social events or just being there to support one another?
<zmoylan> agreed
<SergioMeneses> your wiki is pretty nice and a lot of information appears on it... airurando do you have some problems or ideas about your team that you want to share with us?
<airurando> THe social events have worked great in the past but attendance has dwindles
<tdr112> i think we have found it hard to get new blood
<airurando> Aye, A lot of goodwill for the ongoing reboot effort.
<airurando> The only real struggle is turning that good will into participation and acitvities.
<PabloRubianes> tdr112: many teams have that problem
<czajkowski> nods there does seem to be interest in the team, but sometimes it's hard to get people to step up.
<SergioMeneses> tdr112, always is hard to find new blood
<czajkowski> But a lot of teams find that so don't be disheartended
<airurando> we have had some highlights over the last two years
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, ++
<airurando> we will never get disheartened
 * czajkowski hugs airurando excellent 
<tdr112> thats true only last week we had a great ubuntu hour
<airurando> indeed
<tdr112> with some guests from the usa
<costales> tdr112, great
<airurando> Pete and Amber Graner were in town!
<airurando> We had a good chat at that Ubuntu Hour
<SergioMeneses> airurando, awesome, maybe some day I'll join to one
<airurando> SergioMeneses: would love to have you over!
<costales> airurando, Could we help you in something?
<airurando> costales: not sure
<tdr112> we would take some advice on getting new people
<airurando> we have held and continue to hold straight talking meetings
<airurando> tdr112 is right.
<SergioMeneses> I think we are ready to vote
<airurando> that is really what we need
<costales> tdr112, It's complicate that point ;) A lot of teams have that problem
<czajkowski> costales: perhaps give an example how your team gets new people
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses: PabloRubianes same for you  guys :)
<czajkowski> share knowledge :)
<SergioMeneses> I think I can share something in a post in these days
<czajkowski> #action SergioMeneses to blog about how to get new members into teams
<meetingology> ACTION: SergioMeneses to blog about how to get new members into teams
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses: :)
<czajkowski> now you won't forget
<SergioMeneses> jeje nice try
<airurando> :-)
<czajkowski> #vote please vote on the re approval of the Irish LoCo
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on the re approval of the Irish LoCo
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<costales> I think face2face meetings generate much stronger teams and friendship
<SergioMeneses> costales, totally agree
<SergioMeneses> +1 excellent work!
<meetingology> +1 excellent work! received from SergioMeneses
<airurando> costales: I also agree
<costales> +1 Go Ãire!! Thanks for your work!! Keep it! :D
<meetingology> +1 Go Ãire!! Thanks for your work!! Keep it! :D received from costales
<PabloRubianes> +1 good work!
<meetingology> +1 good work! received from PabloRubianes
<airurando> sincere thanks to you all :-)
<czajkowski> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on the re approval of the Irish LoCo
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<czajkowski> well done :)
<elacheche> Congrats Irish Team! :D
<SergioMeneses> congrats ubuntu Ireland team
<SergioMeneses> :D
<czajkowski> #action czajkowski add team to Launchpad
<airurando> that is wonderful news
<meetingology> ACTION: czajkowski add team to Launchpad
<PabloRubianes> congrats to the Irish Team!!!
<zmoylan> huzzah
<costales> Congrats Irish Team! and thank you!
 * airurando is delighted!
<Neo31> congrats Irish Team :)
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, PabloRubianes costales maybe we have to write a blog-post about this meeting
<PabloRubianes> I would accept A Guinness to celebrate!
<czajkowski> thank you all for coming
<SergioMeneses> PabloRubianes, +1k
<costales> PabloRubianes, me too xD
<airurando> thanks Neo31
<czajkowski> PabloRubianes: costales so which one of you will update the wiki with the mins
<czajkowski> I've already given SergioMeneses a task :)
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, :O
<PabloRubianes> I do it at night today
<costales> It's a little late for me now
<czajkowski> #action PabloRubianes to update the wiki with the minutes and post to locoteams mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: PabloRubianes to update the wiki with the minutes and post to locoteams mailing list
<czajkowski> np
<costales> I could do it tomorrow :)
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 16 20:38:51 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-16-20.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-16-20.00.html
<czajkowski> Thank you to all who came
<czajkowski> it's lovely to hear all these stories on how teams are doing across the world
<czajkowski> sharing stories inspires us all
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, :')
<costales> Thanks you czajkowski :) Great management :)
<czajkowski> it's going to be one of you lot one day :)
<costales> :$ ;)
<airurando> thank you costales, czahkowski, SergioMeneses and PabloRubianes.
<czajkowski> airurando: eh tab complete me :)
<airurando> sorry just saw that
<zmoylan> if you have tab on your keyboard
<czajkowski> lol
<zmoylan> 0500 in japan, that's commitment!
<tdr112> thanks all
<zmoylan> hope the battery lasts tdr112
<tdr112> and cztab do visit us more often
<Neo31> :)
<zmoylan> we'll have the tayto and red lemonade handy
<costales> Good bye and congrats teams :D
<elacheche> thx costales
<elacheche> :)
<costales> elacheche, ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-17
<cjohnston> !rmb
<ubottu> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, amachu, and bkerensa. Meeting time.
<cjohnston> mzanetti eliasps give us a few more minutes to see if anyone else will show up please. Sorry for the delay
<eliasps> Ok :)
<salih-emin> any news ?
<cjohnston> eliasps, mzanetti I'm very sorry, however it appears as though we will not be able to get enough people here to hold the meeting. if we have one more person show up shortly we may be able to do it.
<salih-emin> cjohnston any ways to contact them ?
<cjohnston> I already pinged them above.
<salih-emin> OK ! :) thnx
<eliasps> cjohnston in case that the meeting will not start, what happens? The voting will be continued via e-mail?
<cjohnston> eliasps: We normally reschedule for the next meeting. Doing it by email removes the ability for us to ask questions to get a better feel of who you are/what you do, it also removes the ability for you to have supporters at a meeting with you.
<hggdh> cjohnston: I am in (if it helps any)
<eliasps> Ok. Thanks!
<cjohnston> Destine: iulian are you still here?
<iulian> Affirmative.
<cjohnston> eliasps: if Destine is still here then we are able to have the meeting
<Destine> sure
<hggdh> cjohnston: we have quorum!
<cjohnston> eliasps mzanetti give us a couple minutes to get situated
<hggdh> aall right
<hggdh> #startmeeting Membership Board 1200
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 17 12:54:07 2013 UTC.  The chair is hggdh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara) | Membership Board 1200 Meeting | Current topic:
<hggdh> #voters cjohnston Destine iulian hggdh
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine cjohnston hggdh iulian
<hggdh> all: we are sorry for this delay
<hggdh> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 2200 UTC meeting for July 4th, 2013.
<hggdh> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<hggdh> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<hggdh> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<hggdh> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<hggdh> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<hggdh> (sorry, I am just logging in, waiting for my browser to start)
<cjohnston> s/July 4, 2013/July 17. 2013 just for the log :-)
<hggdh> bah
<cjohnston> and s/2200/1200
<cjohnston> :-)
<Destine> clear
<hggdh> yep, tried to be quickly fast, messed up, sorry
<Destine> sorry for that.
<hggdh> so, anyway, let's get started. mzanetti -- you are on
<hggdh> mzanetti: please introduce yourself, with links for you LP and Wiki pages
<hggdh> .
<iulian> idle     : 0 days 14 hours 33 mins 31 secs
<iulian> I don't think he's around.
<hggdh> yeah
<hggdh> OK. eliasps -- you are on. Please introduce yourself, with links to LP and Wiki pages
<eliasps> Hello everyone
<eliasps> My name is Elias, I live in Greece and I'm currently a math student. I am an Ubuntu user since 2007 and member of the Ubuntu-gr community since 2011.
<iulian> Hi there.
<eliasps> Here is my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/eliasps and my account in launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~eliasps
<eliasps> I activelly provide user support and giving advice in Ubuntu-gr forums and IRC on a daily basis, since my registration.
<eliasps> Later on, I started translating Ubuntu and became member of the Ubuntu Greek Translators team. 2 months ago I responded to the need for new moderators in Ubuntu-gr forum and thanks to its members, I am now a global moderator of Ubuntu-gr forum and G+ Community.
<eliasps> I am also the main desinger of Ubuntistas e-magazine, the magazine of the Greek Ubuntu community, which I bring into its final form by using LaTeX. Ubuntistas is available for free of course, at Ubuntu Software Center. ubuntistas.ubuntu-gr.org
<eliasps> I try to participate in testing Ubuntu for bugs. I have installed Ubuntu 13.10 and currently trying out Mir display server.
<eliasps> I keep myself updated for any tests that needs to be done.
<eliasps> My main goal is to continue providing support to everyone in need inside and outside of the forums, keep promoting FOSS and especially Ubuntu in Greece and encourage new members to get involved as well.
<eliasps> Today, I am in a daily contact with other activelly contributing members of our community and we are constantly trying to improve and expand our community's projects. I see some of them present here and I thank them for their support! :)
<eliasps> Here are some photos of us at Ubuntu 13.04 release party in Athens: http://www.ubuntu-gr.org/content/ubuntu-release-party-raring-ringtail-athens-2013
<eliasps> And from Ubuntu hour a few days ago: http://www.ubuntu-gr.org/story/17-07-13/ubuntu-hour-%CE%B1%CE%B8%CE%AE%CE%BD%CE%B1-12-%CE%B9%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BB%CE%AF%CE%BF%CF%85-2013
<eliasps> That's pretty much my story with Ubuntu. I must thank all those people that inspired me to get involved and helped me with my first steps.
<hggdh> eliasps: on the Athens photo -- who are you there?
<NikTh> Hello, I'm here to indicate my full support on eliasps.  Thank you.
<iulian> NikTh: Thanks.
<eliasps> Wait a second to find the right picture to explain, please.
<hggdh> eliasps: take your time
<eliasps> Ok! :) 4th photo, I am the guy bihind the one holding the cake
<eliasps> The one that smiles funny. :P
<salih-emin> Hi all, I fully support eliasps and aknowledge his contributions. Thnx
<hggdh> thank you
<NikTh> At this photo, yes.. the one who siting  and smiles :-)  https://ubuntu-gr.org/files/photos/release5_0.jpg
<iulian> Thanks for the information, eliasps.
<hggdh> salih-emin: thanks for the support
<eliasps> :)
<eliasps> Thanks guys for your support.
<konnn> Hello, my fully support to Elias, too.
<hggdh> :-)
<Destine> konnn, thanks for the support.
<iulian> Nice.
<eliasps> Thank you!!
<hggdh> #vote on eliasps for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: on eliasps for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjohnston> +1
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<hggdh> +1 No doubt! Being a math student sort of helps, but I am biased ;-)
<meetingology> +1 No doubt! Being a math student sort of helps, but I am biased ;-) received from hggdh
<hggdh> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on eliasps for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<hggdh> eliasps: WELCOME!
<NikTh> Congrats eliasps . Welcome aboard :-)
<salih-emin> Congrats eliasps !!
<Destine> eliasps, congratulations.
<eliasps> Thanks everyone! Proud to become an Ubuntu member.
<konnn> Bravoo
<eliasps> hggdh if I may, biased on what?
<iulian> (I've just added him to ~ubuntumembers.)
<eliasps> On math studying?
<hggdh> eliasps: having a strong math background... so I am partial to us
<eliasps> It will definatelly help, especially on app developing, which i itend to do
<eliasps> Thank you all again!
<hggdh> well. Given mzanetti is not around, I will then consider the meeting done. Again, we are sorry for the late start
<hggdh> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 17 13:10:47 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-17-12.54.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-17-12.54.html
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 17 15:03:42 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> stgraber slangasek doko stokachu xnox jodh barry ev cjwatson bdmurray
<slangasek> stgraber: you're up :)
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> slangasek: sorry, just finished typing :)
<stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
<stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
<stgraber>   - Landed a new version of the upgrader, that's now feature complete (does GPG checking)
<stgraber>   - Worked on some code to make mark-current add a stamp file in the cdimage build directories for import-cdimage to parse
<stgraber>   - Added code to generate a system-image configuration file at boot time
<stgraber>   - Fixed a few subtile bugs in import-cdimage causing broken upgrade paths when some files are identical to the previous build
<stgraber>   - Did a test backport and raised RT to get pxz and android-tools in precise-cat
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - LXC
<stgraber>   - Linux Plumbers mini-conference preparation
<stgraber>   - Some tweaks to lxc-start-ephemeral and the python binding
<stgraber>   - Poked the security team about the MIR
<stgraber>   - Usual code reviews
<stgraber>  - Network
<stgraber>   - Uploaded a new openvpn now that we have iproute2
<stgraber>   - Helped doko figure out why isc-dhcp was broken after his merge
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>   - Some shim testing
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Get all UEFI systems to install and boot shim-signed (even when not running under secureboot)
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Figure out the needed changes to run the phablet test suite on readonly images
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Add an option to phablet-flash to bootstrap an image based system
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Land the mark-current change on cdimage and apply matching change to import-cdimage
<stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Update pack-system to include the recovery partition image (not ideal but better than not updating it at all)
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> TRAVEL/VACATION:
<stgraber>  - NEXT WEEK: I'll be in London all week for the release engineering sprint
<stgraber>  - WEEK AFTER: I'll be on vacation, only working on the 2nd of August (Friday)
<stgraber>  - WEEK AFTER that: I'll be on vacation Monday-Wednesday, working on Thursday (8th) and Friday (9th)
<stgraber>  - WEEK AFTER that: I'll be at Debconf2013 all week
<stgraber>  - => back to normal on the 21st of August
<stgraber>  - => as a result of all that, I'll be missing the next 4 team meetings
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> (DONE)
<ev> oh hai (pickup time got moved)
<slangasek> stgraber: is your android-tools precise-cat backport any different from the one in the ubuntu sdk ppa (besides version #)?
<stgraber> slangasek: probably not, I asked IS for a clean backport from precise (I tested it with backportpackage)
<slangasek> ev: hey there!
<stgraber> slangasek: I really just need simg2img on nusakan (currently using a local copy which isn't ideal)
<slangasek> stgraber: right
<slangasek>  * prep for client sprint on IoM (in two weeks)
<slangasek>  * lots of internal meetings
<slangasek>  * following up on arm64 bootstrap
<slangasek>  * broke unity builds over the weekend by getting rid of unity-common; this led to a renewed discussion about getting all our Ubuntu Touch packages out of ppas and into the archive, the deadline is now end of month
<slangasek>  * still working on parted this week
<slangasek>  * still working on shim in the lead-up to 12.04.3
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> doko: your turn
<xnox> stgraber: pxz currently segfaults for me on android.tar  bug 1199895, which is simply possibly bug 1096782
<ubottu> bug 1199895 in pxz (Ubuntu) "pxz crashed with SIGSEGV in _IO_vsnprintf()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199895
<ubottu> bug 1096782 in pxz (Ubuntu) "pxz do not handle >4GB size files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1096782
<xnox> would we be affected?
<doko> - Linaro Connect last week
<doko> - gcc-4.7 C++11 bug fix backported
<doko> - gcc-4.7 Linaro release and upload
<doko> - still trying to sort out network setup for the arm64 bootstrap
<doko> - arm64 bootstrap, starting with languages, ruby, lua done, working on php, guile
<doko> (done)
<stokachu> just one bug this week: bug 1199037 - spent the better part of the week learning juju and deploying some internal applications
<ubottu> bug 1199037 in python-eventlet (Ubuntu Raring) "backport eventlet exception context fix" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199037
<stokachu> done
<stgraber> xnox: ah, haven't had any problem with my delta or rootfs tarballs so far
<stgraber> xnox: I'm certainly not affected by the >4GB one, not sure about the other
<xnox> bah, me!
<xnox> * upstart code review
<xnox> * upstart 1.9.1 upload into saucy
<xnox> * sru on hold, pending resolution of bug 1199778
<xnox> * android build:
<xnox>   - <<100MB source package now (dropped chromium, multiple copies of
<xnox>   stdc++ libraries, all prebuilt binaries, tools and not-needed files.
<ubottu> bug 1199778 in upstart (Ubuntu) "upstart crashes if re-exec'ed with active chroot sessions" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199778
<xnox>   - split out vendor blobs into a separate src&binary package (it's
<xnox>   not going to change)
<xnox>   - should be relatively straight forward to make a copyright file for
<xnox>   and upload into the archive. Will need security team review of
<xnox>   embedded copies of code and if/which need CVE tracking (agreed with
<xnox>   security team)
<xnox>   - refresh toolchain against doko's gcc-4.7 upload, dropped binutils patches.
<xnox> * Plumbers/LinuxCon upstart talk accepted by james and myself. \o/
<xnox> * this week:
<xnox>   - push out updated upstart SRU
<xnox>   - finish up with android build and upload into the archive
<xnox>   - thus moving on to QML/OOBE app for next week
<xnox> ..
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-app-launching:
<jodh>   - libupstart now in the archive.
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - upstart-dconf-bridge: Progress on reacting to jobs being
<jodh>     added/removed (slow as we have to use GDBusProxy rather than the
<jodh>     usual NIH routines).
<jodh> * upstart
<jodh>   - Spent last few days working on the best fix for bug 1199778.
<jodh>   - Wrote 2 new tests and resubmitted the MP:
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1199778/+merge/174138
<jodh>   - "Android event bridge" (more details to follow at the end of the meeting).
<jodh>     - worked on the host side (currently called upstart-text-bridge, but
<jodh>       really needs a better name! :-)
<jodh>     - Started to look at the Android side (which will be heavily
<jodh>       influenced by 'watchprops').
<jodh> * TODO
<jodh>   - Aside from the unfinished items above, work on getting some
<jodh>     DEP-8 integration tests running for Upstart (which will result in
<jodh>     the python module getting merged for Upstart testing only).
<jodh> à¼
<barry> image updater: LP: #1199498, LP: #1199488, LP: #1199981, LP: #1199986, LP: #1199982, LP: #1195420, LP: #1195479, LP: #1200981.  meetings.  upload versions 0.3-0.6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199498 in Ubuntu system image "Update client for updated ubuntu_command format" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199498
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199488 in Ubuntu system image "Include the archive-master keyring in system-image-common" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199488
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199981 in Ubuntu system image "Reboot class is missing reboot() method override" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199981
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199986 in Ubuntu system image "Fix ubuntu_command file ordering" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199986
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199982 in Ubuntu system image "/var/lib/system-image must be present in packaging" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199982
<barry> d/l service: discussions/status with mandel.  need to do more on this asap, with click package and upgrader client integration.
<barry> other: work to eliminate configparser as configglue dep.  discussions w/configparser upstream about various problems we encountered.  tox 1.5.0 (debian bug 702009), codespeak-lib 1.4.15 (with pull request in debian to re-enable dep8 tests, and debian bug 678398).  python bug 18440 (hash() truncates __hash__() to machine bit width).  syncpackage codespeak-lib (failed).  syncpackage tox.
<ubottu> Debian bug 702009 in tox "tox: Upgrade tox to 1.4.3" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/702009
<ubottu> Debian bug 678398 in codespeak-lib "codespeak-lib: Enable test suite (as DEP-8 tests)" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/678398
<ubottu> bug 18440 in xorg (Ubuntu) "xserver-xorg 6.8.2-32: xv is corrupted for some video sizes" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18440
<barry> this week: working furiously on LP: #1192585, leading to work on minimal ui.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192585 in Ubuntu system image "Add a dbus API" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192585
<barry> ð¢
<slangasek> jodh: why "text" bridge? :)
<ev> I guess I'll paste here again so the logs have it
<ev> This week has again been focused on the Cassandra move into Prodstack.
<ev> We've finally gotten past the hurdles around the initial repair of
<ev> etcassandra/0 and are currently up to etcassandra/3 (we need a minimum
<ev> of six nodes built to have at least one copy of all the data).
<ev> James Troup and I had some very productive discussions with the folk
<ev> at DataStax and Acunu for a support contract, and possibly to have
<ev> Acunu Analytics handle top-k forÂ errors.ubuntu.com.
<ev> I'm exercising Analytics in canonistack as preparation for getting it
<ev> turned on in production to demo it with real world data. More on that
<ev> soon.
<ev> I've also been working on getting automatic error reporting set for
<ev> the server and mobile (building the settings UI, teaching apport to be
<ev> quiet, etc). I'm going to be optimistic and say that we'll have
<ev> automatic error reporting turned on for the phone by the end of the
<ev> week.
<ev> While waiting for g++ to melt my CPU, I've been porting our pyjuju
<ev> deployment code over to gojuju.
<ev> done
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-click-package:
<cjwatson>  - Wrote a PackageKit plugin for click.
<cjwatson>  - Added a "click list" command, hooked into PK.
<cjwatson>  - Some work to make things build on precise.
<cjwatson>  - Refactoring hooks design to meet needs of AppArmor and desktop file handling.  Aiming to finish this by end of week.
<cjwatson>  - Preparation for demo at end of month.
<cjwatson> Yet more Apache 2.4 / PHP 5.5 transition madness.
<cjwatson> Made net-retriever's deduplication code lots faster for large Packages files (bug 1067934).
<ubottu> bug 1067934 in net-retriever (Ubuntu Raring) "spends 10+ minutes deduplicating Package lists" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1067934
<jodh> slangasek: just "because" :) As I say, better names welcome. I don't want to call it the upstart-android-bridge though.
<cjwatson> Filed RT#63122 for a new host for offloaded archive jobs.
<cjwatson> ..
<bdmurray> submitted RT #63071 regarding updating errors and daisy
<bdmurray> tested deployment of new version of errors and daisy
<bdmurray> resolved an OOPS in errors (writing to bugtocrashsignature) when creating a bug in Launchpad
<bdmurray> tested update-notifier crash notification change (using MATCH instead of FILE)
<bdmurray> uploaded update-notifier to saucy with a new version of the crash notification
<bdmurray> uploaded update-notifier fixing LP: #1200044
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1200044 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-motd-updates-available wastes 1 second on every login by forking hundreds of /usr/bin/stat" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1200044
<bdmurray> investigation into and fix for bug LP: #1200135
<bdmurray> uploaded R SRU of fix for bug LP: #1199157 (verified it too)
<bdmurray> modified ubuntu-release-upgrader not to use GObject.threads_init()
<bdmurray> SRU verification of LP: #1078697
<bdmurray> research into sessioninstaller / dbus-python LP: #771404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1200135 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Raring to saucy upgrade fails with "AttributeError: Values instance has no attribute 'devel_release'"" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1200135
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199157 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Raring) "proposed should be disabled on upgrade to development release" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199157
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1078697 in apt (Ubuntu Lucid) "Ubuntu archive is missing SHA-1/SHA-256 hashes for some packages" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078697
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771404 in dbus-python (Ubuntu) "aptd crashed with UnicodeEncodeError in _method_reply_error(): 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 20-28: ordinal not in range(128)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771404
<bdmurray> modified bugbot to subscribe me to regression bugs (from proposed) w/o an SRU bug
<bdmurray> package to team mapping work
<bdmurray> created a csv file of the package to team mapping for the current teams we are using in LP
<bdmurray> review of packages added to seeds in raring
<bdmurray> â
<bdmurray> wrote a tool to query the archive to find unsubscribed packages
<cjwatson> Oh, I forgot to mention, I also got the fix for bug 1192286 verified - it's awaiting the next nodowntime deployment now
<ubottu> bug 1192286 in Launchpad itself "Allow phased update percentage to be set when copying a package" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192286
<bdmurray> cjwatson: thanks!
<bdmurray> I'm done if that was not clear
<slangasek> \o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<stokachu> could i get an ack on bug 1199037
<xnox> jodh: bionic-upstart-bridge (on android side) upstart-bionic-bridge (on host/ubuntu side)
<ubottu> bug 1199037 in python-eventlet (Ubuntu Raring) "backport eventlet exception context fix" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199037
<stokachu> could i please*
<slangasek> stokachu: "ack" :-)
<stokachu> slangasek: thank you! :D
<slangasek> stokachu: is it waiting for sponsorship or SRU queue approval?
<jodh> xnox: I'd rather not make any reference to android/bionic on the host side as the bridge is generic.
<stokachu> slangasek: theyve linked the related branch and i dont believe its been uploaded yet
<bdmurray> I'll be on holiday from the 22nd to the 31st.
<bdmurray> stokachu: it looks to me like it needed some minor fixing
<slangasek> bdmurray: can you follow up on it?
<stokachu> bdmurray: would you mind commenting and ill work with the engineer to get it in shape
<stokachu> i need to write a lint tool or something for these outside requests
<bdmurray> sure, I'll comment and watch for fixes
<stokachu> bdmurray: thanks man i appreciate it
<slangasek> [TOPIC] upstart and android
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: upstart and android
<slangasek> so today's in-depth topic is the upstart android bridge jodh is working on
<slangasek> timely and topical!
 * slangasek yields the floor to jodh
<jodh> slangasek: thanks.
<jodh> you may have noticed that as of Monday the touch images are now running a Session Init.
<jodh> All the android bits are now running in the android lxc container.
<jodh> The issue this bridge is trying to solve though is that upstart services on the host side (ubuntu) need to know when specific android services in the container are "ready".
<jodh> I outlined this in a post recently to ubuntu-devel: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-July/037469.html
<jodh> Currently, some of the session jobs are using heuristics (ahem) to determine when certain android services are available but they are not reliable.
<slangasek> heuristics like "sleep", I believe ;)
<jodh> slangasek: right :(
<slangasek> and I think the ofono job is also respawning messily when the rild socket comes and goes
<jodh> so what this bridge needs to do is somehow detect when android services are ready and create an upstart event that jobs on the host side (potentially system and session I think?) can make use of.
<jodh> slangasek and I are not terribly happy with the design as it stands so if anyone knows a better way speak up.
<jodh> The plan currently though is to:
<jodh> - create an *android* service that runs in early android boot (that is to say some time after the lxc container starts).
<jodh> this service will run before any other android service and will "hook" into the service manager facility provided by android init (basically a block of shared-memory it updates when things change).
<jodh> this service will also attempt to connect to an already-running bridge on the host side and squirt name=value pairs over the wire.
<jodh> the bridge on the host side will then emit upstart events like 'android-service $name=$value'.
<slangasek> so from what rsalveti had said, I thought the plan on the android side was simpler than that... I thought they were modifying android init to dump the android service states over a socket
 * rsalveti checks backlog
<jodh> well, that was the original idea, but we don't need to modify androids init as it already provides this shared-memory facility (used by getprops/watchprops/etc).
<rsalveti> slangasek: yeah, the additional service will be quite small, so don't need to change the init itself
<slangasek> ok
<jodh> so, on the host side, jobs should eventually be able to specify things like:
<stgraber> jodh: I'm assuming the actual exchange between host and container is a socket created by the bridge on the host that's bind-mounted into the container?
<rsalveti> but it'll be called when starting init
<jodh> start on :sys:android-property init.svc.ueventd=running
<jodh> when the ueventd (androids version of udev) daemon is running.
<slangasek> why would it be bind mounted instead of using an abstract socket?
<jodh> stgraber: yes, the host side will create the socket. I might need your help on the bind-mounting of it though :)
<slangasek> you shouldn't need to bind mount anything
<stgraber> slangasek: we tend to prefer bind-mounts of real socket vs abstract socket because if we ever choose to use a separate netns for the container, access to abstract sockets won't be possible (as they'd live in different namespaces)
<jodh> we could use a real socket but security might be a concern.
<rsalveti> yeah
<stgraber> slangasek: the kernel has explicit logic in it for bind-mounted sockets to be accessible across namespaces so it's the preferred way of doing things
<slangasek> stgraber: I can see that being desirable for containers generally, but we're already relying on abstract sockets for Touch
<slangasek> and upstart makes heavy use of abstract sockets throughout - so I don't see the advantage of bind mounting
<stgraber> slangasek: ok, I guess if we already really on access to Android abstract sockets from Ubuntu, then it won't make things much worse (and it's not terribly likely we'll turn on the netns for the Android container any time soon anyway)
<rsalveti> jodh: do you know when you'll get enough time to start the implementation there? just so I can sync it with some other changes I'm doing in the android side
<jodh> rsalveti: I need to discuss with slangasek before committing to timings. As mentioned, I've got a basic bridge on the host side and have been sniffing around bionic (somewhat misnamed perhaps? :-) to see how much effort it will be for me to write the android side. Oh and learning the Android.mk bits.
<slangasek> rsalveti: so I've asked jodh to address autopkgtest of upstart first before doing any more feature work; I'd assume that puts the android bridge at least 2 weeks out
<rsalveti> slangasek: jodh: right, ok, as this will be a major improvement :-) should fix all the races we're having in there
<slangasek> jodh: so what are the bits of the design that you're not happy with currently?
<slangasek> rsalveti: and the plan is still to make ueventd a "run-once" service in the android container?
<jodh> well, I was hoping we could somehow make the android service manager accessible to the host to allow a single application to handle the injection of the events.
<rsalveti> jodh: I can set up the git repo and a stub in there (with a stub .c/Android.mk) if that helps you
<jodh> rsalveti: great - thanks!
<rsalveti> slangasek: yes
<rsalveti> slangasek: we'll get a init.svc.ueventd stopped
<slangasek> jodh: ah, so you don't like having to run a daemon both in the host and in the container?
<slangasek> rsalveti: right :)
<jodh> rsalveti: btw - do we have any facility (like androgenizer) to handle autoconf packages in bionic land?
<slangasek> I guess the problem with trying to do it outside the container is that it would be racy trying to start listening for events inside the container
<jodh> rsalveti: autotools I mean
<rsalveti> you can manage some services via the property system as well
<slangasek> you really need something within the container to synchronously kick things off
<rsalveti> jodh: no :-( all pure makefiles
<jodh> rsalveti: ack
<ogra_> rsalveti, we should probably work out some sleeps or so to improve the races a bit, i recently start seeing ueventd acting up on maguro too
<ogra_> that wasnt the case before we switched to upstart sessions
<ogra_> (we got to fast)
<rsalveti> ogra_: right, that's why I want us to have the bridge asap :-)
<rsalveti> avoid more hacks
<ogra_> so that we can somehow survive these two extra weeks
<rsalveti> ogra_: sounds fine, if that really helps us
<ogra_> dunno, i'll do some tests
<slangasek> yeah, slowing things down with a sleep in the meantime is probably best
<rsalveti> sleep, sed and grep, we can solve everything with those tools
<slangasek> jodh: so I think it would be possible, and might reduce the memory usage, to have the synchronous trigger within the container be a one-shot program that connects to the host's socket with a simple "the container is ready" message
<xnox> jodh: you should be able to simply $ apt-get install gcc-arm-linux-androideabi and do ./configure --host=arm-linux-androideabi; which will build for android user-space and link against bionic. Then just adb push your binaries and they will work.
<jodh> one issue we have is how to tell the android service where to connect. We could hard-code that somewhere (in 2 places!) but maybe we could pass that in as an env var to the lxc container? Security team might want to get involved in this plan.
<xnox> jodh: in terms of getting it on to the images, we have ability to fetch binaries like that without any Android.mk madness.
<slangasek> so: host launches bridge; bridge listens on (abstract) socket; host launches container; container starts init; init runs "tell-upstart-I.m-here"; t-u-i-h connects to abstract socket and sends message; bridge receives message, connects to android init shared memory; bridge acks message to t-u-i-h; t-u-i-h exits; android init continues starting other services
<rsalveti> xnox: but I'm hoping that the service will be small enough to be included in there by default
<jodh> slangasek: not sure I understand - there are multiple android services that the service manager will notify us about.
<xnox> jodh: caveats apply, that you are building against bionic with incomplete pthreads, no exceptions and partial implementation with many stubs everywhere.
<slangasek> jodh: see above
<rsalveti> xnox: until we do some more progress on your work and get that as default
<xnox> jodh: or me/rsalveti other android gurus will package it later =)
<jodh> and single-shot wouldn't handle android service restart scenarios.
<rsalveti> jodh: an ENV var might me enough as a start
<jodh> slangasek: I still don't understand what you've said. I believe ofono is currently the issue, but I was going for a generic solution that would inject upstart events for all android service changes.
<slangasek> jodh: your current design requires two daemons, one inside the container and one outside the container.  But the only reason you have one inside the container is to copy state from the shared mem region to the socket, *and* to ensure synchronization of the startup so that the bridge doesn't miss service start events that happen soon after android init starts because we aren't yet listening in the right place
<jodh> slangasek: correct.
<slangasek> jodh: the second of these can be addressed by a synchronous callback to an upstart socket by a one-shot program, instead of a daemon.  and the first of these is unnecessary if the bridge just talks directly to the android shared mem interface.
<slangasek> this makes it completely un-generalized, it will be an actual upstart-android-bridge at that point; but I think that's preferable
<jodh> slangasek: the bridge on the host cannot talk to the android inits shared memory.
<slangasek> why not?
<jodh> because it's not actually shared memory in the conventional sense: init mmaps a file in /dev (tmpfs) then unlinks it.
<slangasek> oh, really?
<slangasek> so it's not using /dev/binder?
<jodh> no
<slangasek> oh fun
<slangasek> then I guess I don't see a way around having two daemons
<jodh> so, yes, we could tweak androids init to "play fair" as another option I guess, but I'd rather we didn't if possible.
<slangasek> ok, so I guess the design holds up to scrutiny ;)
<slangasek> unless anyone has any other ideas? :)
<jodh> are there any security issues anyone can think of?
<jodh> the host bridge will specify the event which stops any malicious android apps injecting random upstart events.
<jodh> (since all they can specify is a single name=value env var for the fixed event)
<slangasek> would android apps have access to this anyway?
<slangasek> I'm assuming that every piece of this requires root privileges
<rsalveti> yeah, as long we have just root-like apps setting up properties, we're good
<jodh> I'm not sure if the android service could drop privs at some point.
<rsalveti> because we can probably generate an event via 'setprop foo bar'
<rsalveti> but that's something we can also block if not root
<slangasek> yeah, it all seems fine to me
<jodh> I was thinking the android service would only react to init.* events
<jodh> can setprop still set those?
<slangasek> once the code is there it might need a security review, but I don't see anything in the design that gives me security concerns
<jodh> ok great.
<rsalveti> jodh: I think it can, but we can also protect that if needed
<slangasek> any other feedback for James?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 17 16:06:37 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-17-15.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-17-15.03.html
<slangasek> thanks everyone
<barry> thanks!
<jodh> Thanks!!
<slangasek> and thanks jodh for scaring us further with android :D
<jodh> :)
<jodh> bionic indeed...
<jodh> half of its missing! :)
<stokachu> m/win 6
<stokachu> oops
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-18
 * pleia2 waves
<czajkowski> aloha
<cprofitt> hello
<pleia2> #startmeeting Community Council
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 18 17:04:43 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara) | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:
<pleia2> is anyone here from the Developer Memebership Board?
<tumbleweed> o/
<tumbleweed> (at the pub, so excuse my half-attention)
<pleia2> #topic DMB check-in
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara) | Community Council Meeting | Current topic: DMB check-in
<ScottK> \o
<YokoZar> Forgive tardiness :)
<ScottK> A few of us are around.
<pleia2> so this is just a check-in to see how things are going with the DMB
<pleia2> any issues, concerns, etc?
<tumbleweed> not enough applicants atm?
<tumbleweed> otherwise things seem calm
<ScottK> It does seem that almost every time we turn someone down, someone gets upset and suggests criteria should be more objective.
<YokoZar> Do you think we've leveled off in terms of growth of developers then?
<ScottK> It hasn't happened lately, but it's an ongoing issue.
<ScottK> I don't think it's particularly solvable.
<tumbleweed> YokoZar: I haven't seen any new blood in a while, but I've also been getting less involved myself, so hard to know...
<ScottK> My personal opinion is fewer people outside Canonical see Ubuntu as a worthwhile place to invest their free time.
<tumbleweed> the developer advocacy people are probably in the best place to answer that
<czajkowski> ScottK: that sounds rather pesamesitc
<czajkowski> *pessimistic
<tumbleweed> I don' tthink it'n entirely untrue though
<cprofitt> ScottK: that is troubling
<ScottK> I think many people who are technically ept enough to get involved in development are also people interested in advancing the broader FOSS community.
<ScottK> The more Canonical pushes Ubuntu in a unique direction, the less interesting it is in that regard.
<pleia2> is this a topic that has been brought up with the tech board?
<YokoZar> At some level, we compete with our own upstreams in terms of attention
<pleia2> (this is more their area than ours I think)
<pleia2> or at least a dialog that they should be involved with :)
<tumbleweed> possibly given the new directions of ubuntu's public image (towards the phone) there are new developers that we simply aren't seeing
<Laney> hi
<ScottK> tumbleweed: There are, but they aren't distro developers.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: true
<Laney> there are "app" developers
<Laney> I don't think the Ubuntu developer community is getting larger
<Laney> And that does indeed reflect what the company is doing
 * pleia2 nods
<ScottK> Quite a number of long time Ubuntu developers, including me, are increasingly working on Debian rather than Ubuntu directly.
<pleia2> yeah, I do keep seeing familiar names pop up in debian
<ScottK> All that said, I think the current situation is better than if Canonical had decided to do all the phone work outside the Ubuntu archive.
<ScottK> So given where they've decided to invest, I don't know that it could be a lot better.
<pleia2> as I understand it, app developers typically wouldn't come to DMB, right?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> We don't have anything to do with package archives outside the distro.
<pleia2> thakns
<Laney> Our last new core-dev appears to have been on 2012-11-01 - MOTU has had 5 or so this year and PPU 6 including two new flavours
<pleia2> Laney: ouch
<pleia2> has there been a change in the types of people applying?
 * bdrung appears
<tumbleweed> recently there was a batch of long time canonical employees, if my memory serves me
<pleia2> canonical vs volunteers vs other companies
<pleia2> tumbleweed: that's my memory too
<ScottK> More Canonical, less anything else.
<Laney> Don't know how much that's a change over recent history
<pleia2> Laney: how recent?
<Laney> It doesn't feel like the mix of people has changed so much in my time anyway
<YokoZar> I suppose Canonical's rate of growth has outpaced things
<Laney> 2 years or so
 * pleia2 nods
<Laney> It's just the numbers
<ScottK> Also, over the last 4 years or so, Ubuntu is less and less where the cool kids that want the crazy bleeding edge stuff hang out.
<ScottK> I'm not sure where they went, but I've seen a big change in the feature freeze exceptions the release team gets in that time.
<tumbleweed> a large chunk certainly went to OSX over the last decade
<tumbleweed> no idea about any growth in other distros
<ScottK> Arch seems a good candidate for a locus of insanity, but I may just be biased because they thought pointing /usr/bin/python at ./python3 was a good idea.
<pleia2> I'm sure a lot of factors are in play here, one of which is I'm seeing more talented devel-type people being hired faster, less time for hobbiest work
<YokoZar> tumbleweed: I'm pretty sure we've still been growing in terms of users at least.  Which I suppose implies a smaller percentage of our users are developers.
<bdrung> distrowatch says that mint has a big user base, but i don't get the impression that many packagers went there
<tumbleweed> YokoZar: I'd assume so
<czajkowski> bdrung: not sure how much I pay to distrowatch :)
<Laney> Anyway, it's definitely not a bad thing if people move to whatever upstream
<YokoZar> bdrung I think http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm  a much more reliable popularity contest ;)
<pleia2> Laney: yeah, it still trickles down to us pretty directly
<Laney> Still, we were never at a level of having run out of work to do
<ScottK> Ubuntu developers moving "up" to Debian has been a significant source of DDs in recent years, but if the Ubuntu pipe is drying up, it's not good in the long run.
<Laney> We've had some meetings at UDS about this but we never found a way to find new people reliably
<bdrung> YokoZar: assuming distrowatch attracts more technical people, Ubuntu seems to get more widespread by regular users.
<czajkowski> Laney: do you guys actively go looking ?
<czajkowski> apprroaching people directly ?
<Laney> maybe flavours have a role here - they seem to do well for sustaining non-C contributions
<ScottK> I think that given Canonical's direction, it's not a solvable problem.
<ScottK> Laney: to the extent they are sustainable in the long run, that's true.
<Laney> czajkowski: we've done all sorts in the past but not so much at the minute
<Laney> I'd guess morale about recruitment is quite low
<czajkowski> Laney: bit of a catch 22 then
<Laney> Anyway
<Laney> We're making it easier for not-completely-ubuntu people to contribute
<Laney> so you don't have to be an out-and-out distribution developer
 * pleia2 nods
<cprofitt> It concerns me that morale is lower
<cprofitt> but not sure what we can do to resolve that
<pleia2> so I'm inclined to say that pause and say that this is now on our radar
<pleia2> not sure of action items though
 * cprofitt nods
<ScottK> I don't think there's anything.  I think it's a function of Canonical's direction.
<ScottK> Fundamentally, there's less room for outside contribution.
<ScottK> I need to go, so have a good rest of your meeting.
<bdrung> seeing many articles about Canonical doing stuff, but only few about the Ubuntu community does not attract contributors.
<sabdfl> hello folks
<bdrung> hi sabdfl.
<sabdfl> sorry to be late, glad i could join though
<bdrung> I saw bug report with a mindset of users versus Canonical. I don't know whether this is caused by the growth of Ubuntu or the increased impression of Ubuntu being controlled by Canonical.
<YokoZar> Mmm, good to see you
<YokoZar> Thanks ScottK
<pleia2> I think it's fair to say that the market has changed for linux-focused developers too, most people I know who used to hack on this stuff have "real jobs" and increasingly that takes them away from hobbiest stuff (and isn't always directly on the core os)
<pleia2> even kids right out college with experience get hired fast
<pleia2> world needs linux people :)
<YokoZar> pleia2: I think it good for us that Ubuntu experience is a very marketable job skill ;)
<pleia2> YokoZar: indeed!
<sabdfl> just catching up on scrollback (thanks czajkowski)
<sabdfl> i think its inevitable that the big push for a converged UX, and effectively a new DE, has rattled things
<sabdfl> am glad we've seen teams step up to drive KDE and GNOME and other DEs in the Ubuntu archve
<sabdfl> not sure I put much stock in the suggestion that the whole platform is less relevant to FLOSS though - still feels like the best place to get your fix
<sabdfl> happy to lose the crazy-edge to Arch, used to be Gentoo, similar gene and meme
<sabdfl> also, i think looking across the FLOSS landscape, we have fewer participants because bright folks have more layers to play at
<sabdfl> cloud
<sabdfl> mobile
<sabdfl> web
<sabdfl> none of those were real things in 1995, and mobile + cloud are both post-2004
<YokoZar> There's also more upstreams
<sabdfl> i am a bit upset at what i see as pointless undermining of core efforts by parts of the community
<YokoZar> And, frankly, in some sense the less things are broken at the distro layer the less incentive we have to attract developers ;)
<sabdfl> i think some of Kubuntu's posturing re Mir has been aimed at currying favour upstream
<sabdfl> i can appreciate the need for alignment and help and to be popular but it doesn't help to undermine your base :)
<bdrung> Ubuntu on the desktop lost its newness.
<sabdfl> right
<sabdfl> it's hard work too!
<sabdfl> kids these days :)
<YokoZar> Speaking personally, what made me a developer was seeing a piece of low hanging fruit in Ubuntu that was a huge problem I knew how to solve
<YokoZar> we have less huge problems, and thus less fruit to pick these days
<sabdfl> i would like to know what we can do to get our flavours  to be happy, suggestions welcome
<sabdfl> saying 'don't move our cheese and can we have more flex on SRUs' isn't it though :)
<sabdfl> YokoZar, agreed
<sabdfl> however
<sabdfl> we ARE seeing exactly that on the mobile front
<sabdfl> lots of gaps and lots of low hanging fruit
<sabdfl> and lots of new invention needed
<bdrung> Scratching my own itch got me involved. Being more stable has the drawback of decreasing incentives to get involved. :)
<sabdfl> my general expectation is that the whole FLOSS client story really hinges on Ubuntu mobile
<sabdfl> if we get a reasonable share, then it becomes cool to work on the core (and all flavours benefit)
<sabdfl> if not, then after a decade or so I think I'd be ready to say Linux will always be a developer desktop :)
<sabdfl> so, best we crack it open
<sabdfl> in the interim, good, careful governance is a strength, so my thanks to all of you who shape it
<pleia2> thanks sabdfl
<pleia2> any other comments?
<pleia2> thanks for joining us tumbleweed, bdrung, ScottK and Laney, even though I don't see action items right now I think awareness itself helps
<ogra_> something that struck me a while ago already was if the flavours are actually aware that *they* can be the desktop version on a converged device too ....
<ogra_> i wonder if it would make sense to make that fact more popular
<pleia2> kde has a tablet version that they've been putting a lot of work in to, but I think other flavors tend to just lack interest (xubuntu isn't interested)
<ogra_> im not talking about tablet versions but about what happens if you dock it to a screen and kbd/mouse
<pleia2> ah, gotcha
<AlanBell> ogra_: you mean Ubuntu Touch QML Unity on the mobile end and another DE over HDMI?
<ogra_> there will evry likely be phones shipping with ubuntu
<ogra_> AlanBell, exactly
<ogra_> it seems to me that many flavour people are not aware of that fact
<ogra_> and how much more popularity they would gain
<ogra_> by being an easily pluggable replacement for the desktop mode
<czajkowski> any From czajkowski Â· Hide
<czajkowski> other comments for the meeting
<Laney> O_O
<czajkowski> damn  trackpad!
<czajkowski> pleia2: is there anything else on the agenda?
<pleia2> I think that's it
<czajkowski> does anyone else have any other topics?
<czajkowski> #AOB
<AlanBell> o/
<pleia2> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara) | Community Council Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<czajkowski> AlanBell: what's up ?
<AlanBell> we discussed at UDS surprise announcements :)
<AlanBell> and there appears to be one in progress, is there anything we should know about it, or could say the IRC operator team get some kind of briefing on where the relevant resources are
<czajkowski> AlanBell: not sure what you are refering to tbh, but not sure we can go into it now
<czajkowski> we're very much over time
<pleia2> I'll make a note to remind myself that in the case of such announcements we should make sure we keep the IRC folks in the loop
<pleia2> don't want another phone announcement situation :)
<sabdfl> ogra_, good point
<pleia2> AlanBell: thanks
<pleia2> ok, anything else?
<czajkowski> nope all good thanks pleia2
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone :)
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 18 18:18:47 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-18-17.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-18-17.04.html
<jono_> pleia2, I assure the CC will be fully briefed
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-14
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> hi!
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> sorry the meeting is starting late
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
<jdstrand> Stefan Bader (smb) provided debdiffs for saucy-utopic for xen
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job!
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I plan to do apparmor testing of tyhicks packaging of jjohansen's work
<jdstrand> I've got a bunch of stuff to do for the click-reviewers-tools (click package audits/checks/etc)
<jdstrand> I've been working on that this morning. I figure I've got another day of that and then should be all caught up with all the new click hooks
<jdstrand> need to get serious about performance reviews
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on an embargoed issue
<mdeslaur> and then I have some community libav updates to sponsor
<mdeslaur> and I have a bunch of pending security updates to test and release
<mdeslaur> that's it for me, sbeattie
<sbeattie> I'm focusing on apparmor this week
<sbeattie> In particular, focusing on testing jjohansen's stuff
<sbeattie> Which is pretty much it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm going to start on the 'implement kernel postinst policy compiles' WI and other related WIs
<tyhicks> when the abstract socket mediation patches hit the list, I'll switch to preparing the new apparmor upload
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up now (jj is away)
<sarnold> I'm in happy place this week; I'm finishing the trust-store MIR today, a few merge requests to review, likely some apparmor patches to review, and blueprint items to continue working on
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: you're up
<jdstrand> sarnold: can you also review https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity8/dialer-above and...
<jdstrand> https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-system-settings/locking-hash/+merge/224346
<jdstrand> sarnold: they are related to all the password setting stuff you've been doing
<sarnold> jdstrand: sure :)
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> I think mdeslaur was also asked for a review of https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity8/dialer-above/+merge/226476, so you guys can fight over it :)
<sarnold> heh, he kicked it to me pretty quickly :)
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: I gave all of those to sarnold
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> ok, chrisccoulson, you're up
<mdeslaur> sarnold: those were on your list, right?
<sarnold> mdeslaur: dialer-above was, i don't recall the locking-hash url
<mdeslaur> sarnold: it says the merge review was requested from you on 2014-06-24, did you not get the email?
<sarnold> mdeslaur: yikes, that's a long time ago...
<mdeslaur> ah, the merge proposal was updated after your comments
<mdeslaur> I guess you can't re-ask for a review
<mdeslaur> sarnold: anyway, please add it to your list
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson doesn't seem to be available
<sarnold> mdeslaur: ahhh, looks like locking-hash was the original pin implementation and then re-used for the PAM merge, right?
<mdeslaur> yeah, looks like it
<jdstrand> sarnold: are you done?
 * jdstrand assumes the rest of this could be handled offline
<sarnold> mdeslaur: funny, the first email I can find from launchpad about it was on july 4. o_O
<sarnold> jdstrand: yeah
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sanlock.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/zookeeper.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jetty.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cxxtools.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/merkaartor.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<chrisccoulson> oh, sorry, was having dinner :/
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: ok, your turn
<chrisccoulson> this week I'm focused on getting automation for oxide daily builds finished. Also, the chromium update that was meant to happen last week didn't happen (issues with webapps), but that is going to happen this week
<chrisccoulson> hopefully tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> although, chromium 36 is planned for this week too :)
<sarnold> busy week :)
<chrisccoulson> the good news is that we'll be able to push oxide on time, at least ;)
<chrisccoulson> once I've done the daily build stuff, I'm going to tackle bug 1326070, as we have quite a few hacks building up in the browser that are only there because this feature is missing
<ubottu> bug 1326070 in Oxide "Add support for context menus" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1326070
<chrisccoulson> that's about it, I think
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: thanks, and sorry the meeting was late
<chrisccoulson> sure, no worries :)
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<tyhicks> thanks!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<stgraber> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
 * xnox o/
<ScottK> \o
<bdmurray> o/
<ScottK> Who's chairing?
<ScottK> Ah.  micahg.
<bluesabre0> o/ hi everyone!
<stgraber> yeah, if he shows up...
<bdmurray> I thought micahg was supposed to chair the last one. Does the chair stay with him?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> ok, so no micahg, who's next in line then
<bdmurray> ScottK is next alphabetically
<stgraber> ScottK: did you chair the last one (I know micahg hasn't been around in a while and sort of lost track...)
 * ScottK is on a call.Someon else please
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> #startmeeting
<stgraber> (still no bot...)
<stgraber> == Review of previous action items  ==
<stgraber> Laney to add Rohan Garg to ~motu (done)
<stgraber> == Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications ==
<stgraber> Sean Davis - July 14th
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis/DeveloperApplication
<stgraber> bluesabre0: around?
<bluesabre0> o/
<stgraber> can you introduce yourself a bit and tell us why you're applying for upload rights today?
<bluesabre0> hi everyone, I'm Sean Davis, the current Xubuntu Technical Lead
<bluesabre0> I've been helping with package maintenance for Xubuntu for several cycles now
<bluesabre0> We tend to find ourselves bottlenecked for releasing new features and uploading packages, so I would like to apply for upload rights to reduce the workload we send to sponsors
<bluesabre0> I've had several packages sponsored while helping with package maintenance, http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsoree=Sean+Davis&sponsoree_search=name
<bluesabre0> and would like to continue to provide packaging support for the Xubuntu team
<bluesabre0> I'm also one of the Xubuntu and Xfce developers, so I handle software releases as well
<bluesabre0> Please let me know if you have any questions for me.
<stgraber> thanks for the nice introduction!
<bluesabre0> :)
<xnox> bluesabre0: On menulibre package in Debian, why are you not listed as the Maintainer?
<bluesabre0> xnox: Noskcaj handled the initial packaging, I help to co-maintain the package
<xnox> bluesabre0: ok.
<bluesabre0> co-maintainer: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=smd.seandavis%40gmail.com&comaint=yes
<xnox> yeap.
<xnox> bluesabre0: image it's 5th of August, as Xubuntu lead what indicators you would use to monitor Xubuntu readiness state for that release?
<xnox> s/image/imagine/
<bluesabre0> we monitor package and image testing in Xubuntu, and watch for reported bugs against our release
<bluesabre0> we also track progress on Launchpad and Trello
<bluesabre0> to keep on top of immediate action items
<bluesabre0> so if we do not have any blocking issues, or showstoppers, the image should be in an acceptable state for release
<xnox> bluesabre0: Sounds good. is Trello public? what's the url? Also where are Xubuntu image testing results (e.g. url) ?
<bluesabre0> image testing here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<bluesabre0> the xubuntu-team trello is currently private to team members
<bluesabre0> Trello is something new that the team has been using for this cycle, and has helped with tracking progress towards 14.04.1 and 14.10
<xnox> bluesabre0: cool. Fair enough.
<ScottK> Why is it private?
<bluesabre0> I'm not certain, it was initially prepared by our other team members to trial over this release.
<bluesabre0> ok, from our qa lead, it's private since we're still trialing it
<ScottK> FOSS projects should work in public unless there's a good reason.
<ScottK> Not sure that's a good reason.
<stgraber> bluesabre0: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<bluesabre0> We are not using Trello exclusively, all of our current project details, status, and work items are available in their regular locations on Launchpad and the Testing Tracker as well.
<bluesabre0> strgraber: I was not previously... subscribing now.
<bluesabre0> subscription request sent.
<stgraber> bluesabre0: I understand most packages in the set you're applying for are xubuntu-specific, however do you know how to check what other flavour they may impact so that you can talk to them when we're frozen or preparing a milestone?
<xnox> bluesabre0: last question from me. Has it happened to you before that you upload a package, yet it hasn't reached e.g. debian unstable, or ubuntu trusty-updates, or stuck in *-proposed pocket? If that happens, where would you look to check the status of said package?
<bluesabre0> stgraber: not immediately. I do know that we share a number of packages with ubuntu-studio and lubuntu, and we consult often with them when changing packages or functionality
<stgraber> bluesabre0: ok, the answer I was expecting is "seeded-in-ubuntu" which is a tool part of ubuntu-dev-tools which will let you know who else is impacted by a given package
<xnox> bluesabre0: please do install that package, and read man-pages / --help of tools there. They are quite nifty.
<xnox> =)
<bluesabre0> xnox: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+queue The various queues for Ubuntu, for Debian I'm not entirely certain since I've not had any issues
<bluesabre0> stgraber, xbox: will check that out, that sounds useful
<ScottK> BTW, Kubuntu has been using Trello for several cycles.  Feel free to visit #kubuntu-devel to discuss lessons learned.
<bluesabre0> *xnox
<bdmurray> bluesabre0: if you haven't seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405/comments/4 already please have a look at it and let us know if you have any questions about that part of the process.
<bluesabre0> (sorry)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [High,Fix committed]
<stgraber> #vote PPU upload rights for bluesabre0 to the Xubuntu set
<ScottK> +1
<bluesabre0> bdmurray: yes, I was recently informed of that, lessons learned :)
<bdmurray> +1
<xnox> bluesabre0: alright. =) in addition to raw queues there are also: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration - http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
<xnox> +1
<stgraber> +1
<stgraber> #endvote
<bdmurray> bluesabre0: great, just wanted to make sure
<stgraber> bluesabre0: congrats!
<bluesabre0> thanks everyone!
<stgraber> #topic AOB
<stgraber> Chair for next meeting will be micahg, hoping he'll actually be able to attend this time...
<stgraber> #endmeeting
 * xnox did write zequence endorsement on his wiki page application. Task from last time~ish.
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-15
<smoser> o/
<smb> o/
<coreycb> o/
<kickinz1> o/
<beisner> o/
<gnuoy> o/
<lutostag> o/
<tych0> \o
<caribou> o/
<gaughen> here!
<gaughen> \o
<matsubara> o/
<rharper> o/
<smoser> hm..
<smoser> who is up ?
<rharper> zul
<smoser> checking...
<lutostag> zul
<smoser> gaughen,
<smoser> oh. no zul.
<smoser> even better.
<gaughen> damn it, if it's zul this week, then it's me next week
<zul> yeah its me
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 15 16:07:03 2014 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<rharper> pfft
<rharper> not fair meetingology worked for zul
<zul> so welcome to the server team meeting lemme just pull up the agenda
<zul> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> is there any previous agenda items?
<rharper> zul: should be none
<zul> awesome
<zul> moseying along
<zul> #topic U Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: U Development
<zul> smoser/gaughen: do you want to take this topic?
<smoser> sure. why not.
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> that means that we are about 2 weeks and a couple days from alpha-2.
<smoser> and feature freeze about 1 month and 7 days away.
<smoser> please do keep your blueprints up to date, and be particularly aware of feature freeze.
<smoser> best to not run up to it with loads of work to shove in.
<smoser> thats really it. please do use the Utopic Unicorn.  My 3.16 kernel is ever so nice.
<zul> but thats the fun part
<smoser>  /endsection
<zul> cool any questions for mr moser?
<zul> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<zul> hi caribou around?
<caribou> zul: yep, nothing on my side
<zul> any questions for caribou?
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<zul> psivaa is not here i take it
<zul> beisner:  do you have anything?
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<zul> smb around?
<smb> Yes, but nothing from my side this week.
<smb> Apart from sqaying I ahave nothing to say
<smb> and not being able to type
<zul> awesome...anything for smb?
<zul> ok then
<zul> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> so there is linuxcon next month in chicago, and there is the mid-cycle nova meetup in portland at the end of the month
<zul> anything else?
<zul> #topic Open Discussion
<gaughen> nothing else
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<beisner> zul - nothing to add atm.
<zul> im trying to beat my record right now for running this meeting
<gaughen> zul, I still think I've done it faster
<beisner> i think matsubara has the record.
<gaughen> true
<gaughen> did matsubara do it in 7 minutes 1 second?
<zul> anything to raise?
 * gaughen can't quite remember.
<matsubara> 14 minutes which is a multiple of 7
<zul> im just trying to be nice :P
<matsubara> go germany
<gaughen> ha!
<gaughen> and with that hallyn leaves
<zul> thanks for coming
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 15 16:18:23 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-15-16.07.moin.txt
<zul> gaughen:  that was cue
<gaughen> so is "go germany" code for end meeting?
<caribou> thanks zul
<gnuoy> ta zul
<coreycb> thanks zul
<kickinz1> thansk zul
<smb> gaughen, Must be some code so secret nobody knows about it
<gaughen> smb, ooooh, I like it!
<smb> :) Being there, seeing it
<matsubara> thanks zul
<skellat> #startmeeting July 2014 Regular Meeting -- LoCo Council
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 15 20:00:07 2014 UTC.  The chair is skellat. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | July 2014 Regular Meeting -- LoCo Council | Current topic:
<skellat> Welcome to the July 2014 regular meeting of LoCo Council.  My name is Stephen Michael Kellat and I will be chairing this meeting.
<skellat> Before we proceed I ask that members of the Council indicate their attendance.  Members should indicate their presence during the next topic by putting forward "#info" items.
<mhall119> o/
<skellat> #topic Taking Attendance
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | July 2014 Regular Meeting -- LoCo Council | Current topic: Taking Attendance
<skellat> #info Stephen Michael Kellat present
<skellat> #info Bhavani Shankar could not be present for this meeting but has cast votes in the case management bugs for both the Florida and Germany cases which will be announced later
<costales> Hi skellat! Thanks
<skellat> #info Marco Costales present
<costales> |o/ :)
<skellat> We need four members present for there to be a quorum to proceed.  I had a separate notice that jose will be joining us shortly and PabloRubianes may be able to attend as well.
<PabloRubianes> here o/
<skellat> #info Pablo Rubianes present
<skellat> Since we already have Bhavani's votes, we can proceed with three in hopes that Jose will be joining us shortly.
<skellat> #voters PabloRubianes costales skellat
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes costales skellat
<skellat> #topic Special Situations -- Tabling A Resolution
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | July 2014 Regular Meeting -- LoCo Council | Current topic: Special Situations -- Tabling A Resolution
<skellat> The following resolution is laid on table for further consideration:
<skellat> 1.  That the actions taken in the IRC meeting with respect to the Catalan team on June 17th earlier this year be vacated.
<skellat> 2.  That the prior "country rule" be dropped effective immediately.
<skellat> 3.  That the following rule about territory be adopted instead: "Local communities reflect the active life of participants in the development and use of Ubuntu as well as its many flavors.  An active community life shows that that community continues to exist and thrive.  While it is preferred to not have teams overlap in terms of geography, part of an active community life requires working together to resolve such.  The LoCo Council shall p
<skellat> 4.  That the Catalan team be verified for two years effective from July 15, 2014.
<skellat> 5.  That the LoCo Council review the Quebec team independently, write to them of its findings as to whether or not it meets verification guidelines while also suggesting corrective actions as well as ways to grow membership, ask the team if it wishes to stand as part of ~locoteams-verified, and if the team indicates that they wish to do so they be verified without further vote.
<skellat> 6.  That the LoCo Council recommend as part of any renewal/reconstruction/revision of the LoCo Portal that specific attention be given to teams nested within other teams so that they are accurately reflected as part of all our communities across the planet.
<jose> hello everyone, sorry for being late
<mhall119> hey jose
<skellat> #info Jose Rey present
<costales> Hi jose! :)
<skellat> The resolution shall lay on the table until later in this meeting for further disposition.
<skellat> #topic Open Cases For Disposition
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | July 2014 Regular Meeting -- LoCo Council | Current topic: Open Cases For Disposition
<skellat> #subtopic Florida
<skellat> And who is present to speak for Florida?
<mhall119> I am
<jose> just one thing - can we take it a little bit more like a... regular meeting? I feel it's too procedural
<MichelleQ> I'm here as well
<skellat> jose: For the moment we'll stick to procedural niceties and gradually loosen up
<PabloRubianes> welcome Florida team
<costales> Hi mhall119 & MichelleQ :)
<skellat> Welcome to the representatives from Florida.  Please tell us a bit about your community, your application, and then be ready for questions members of the Council may put forward.
<mhall119> so years ago we were a very active and approved team, but life got in the way for many of the driving members and we became dormant for a while
<mhall119> in December we had a reboot meeting to revive the team, we've since elected a council to lead it, had regular IRC meetings and a number of meetups
<mhall119> with >6 months of renewed activity, we decided it was time to seek verified status again
<mhall119> we've documented our application in the wiki as requested: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FloridaTeam/VerificationApplication2014
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> Are there questions from Council members for mhall119 & MichelleQ?
<mhall119> I would also add that we will be organizing UbuCon at FOSSETCON this september as well
<skellat> Could you please tell us a little more about FOSSETCON and the LoCo's participation in that event?
<PabloRubianes> having a reboot could be hard, how is that doing?
<mhall119> FOSSETCON is a new pan-FOSS community conference, it's being organized by some of hte people who ran Florida Linux Show years ago
<MichelleQ> At the moment I'm working with Bryan on PR and social media outreach for Fossetcon, and we're working as a team to host Ubucon.
<mhall119> the organizer (Bryan) has asked our loco team to run UbuCon sessions during the first day of the event, and to help with other aspects of organizing and promoting
<MichelleQ> PabloRubianes, we're doing reasonably well, I think.  We've had several meet-ups and get togethers with reasonable success.
<mhall119> PabloRubianes: thankfully our reboot wasn't caused by anything contentious, just people not having the time they used to, and we lost several key people to other states
<PabloRubianes> mhall119: many other locos are having time issues
<skellat> We've been seeing that happen across the USA
<mhall119> PabloRubianes: I know, something I'd like to talk to the LC about separate from this :)
<PabloRubianes> is nice that the team could move forward
<jose> I see that you have been using the LTP for events and even for blog posts, would you have any recommendations for improving the LTP? (having in mind that Michael is an LTP dev)
<costales> I really like your work in these last months :) Good start!
<mhall119> jose: aside from bribing daker, we generally need to recruit more web-devs around those projects
<jose> hehe, daker's been doing an awesome work
<skellat> Any ballpark figure as to the number of Ubuntu Member persons in Florida?
<mhall119> he has, across a number of projects
<PabloRubianes> mhall119: I was looking to join the LTP devs
<mhall119> skellat: hmmm, at least half a dozen I would assume
<mhall119> some people left the state but still consider themselves part of the team, like crashsystems and dan trevino
<MichelleQ> At least a half dozen, possibly closer to a dozen
<skellat> Any aspiring candidates for Member status in the future?
<mhall119> govatent if he's not already, should definitely apply
<mhall119> we're getting more people from south florida involved lately that I think could soon be candidates for membership
<skellat> Mentoring and encouraging folks within the LoCo to seek Member status is something we always encourage
 * balloons saunters in
<itnet7> Sorry I'm running behind time wise, hello everyone!
<mhall119> skellat: agreed, we can start being more pro-active in that
<mhall119> welcome balloons and itnet7
<skellat> Ubuntu Member persons are often the kernels of activity throughout our communities
<jose> hey itnet7, long time no see :)
<costales> Hi itnet7 :)
<MichelleQ> Hi balloons , itnet7
<itnet7> :-) hey there jose costales
<balloons> hi everyone
<costales> hi balloons ! :)
<mhall119> skellat: I think we have more Ubuntu Members in the state that haven't been active on the team, so maybe our first focus should be to contact them
<itnet7> +1 mhall119
<skellat> mhall119: Sounds like a good plan
<itnet7> We can also encourage some of the active members that haven't applied for membership to do so... (sorry if this is repeated
<skellat> Now, MichelleQ & mhall119...is there anything specific LoCo Council can assist the Florida community with at this time?
<MichelleQ> nothing that I can think of off the top of my head at the moment... we're excited to breathe some life back into the team
<mhall119> skellat: nothing other than more global promotion of loco teams
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> Is there any further discussion of this application at this time or are we ready to go to a vote?
<jose> it's go time
<itnet7> I do have a google doc that outlines some of the activity that I didn't
 * mhall119 has nothing further
<itnet7> get a chance to put on the wiki
<jose> oh, it'd be handy to have those :)
<skellat> #voters jose costales PabloRubianes skellat
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes costales jose skellat
<mhall119> itnet7: post the link
<itnet7> Ubuntu Events at Planet Linux Caffe - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YnWNwqWRNcaVgMh7zT8uu8hljjdNItD1HTrw7JEnI2g/edit?usp=sharing
<skellat> Are we ready for the question to vote on?
<PabloRubianes> yes
<skellat> #vote That the Florida LoCo be verified for two years from today's date
<meetingology> Please vote on: That the Florida LoCo be verified for two years from today's date
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<skellat> +1
<mhall119> skellat: can we take a moment so everybody can look at itnet7's doc?
<meetingology> +1 received from skellat
<PabloRubianes> +1 keep the nice work up
<meetingology> +1 keep the nice work up received from PabloRubianes
<costales> +1 from my side!
<meetingology> +1 from my side! received from costales
<jose> I'm checking at the doc now
<jose> looks like the team has been keeping up with events! awesome!
<jose> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jose
<skellat> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: That the Florida LoCo be verified for two years from today's date
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<skellat> #info If councilor Shankar had been present for this meeting, his vote would have been +1 relative to Florida
<costales> Thanks a lot team, you did a really hard work with the reboot and I wish the best for you!
<mhall119> \o/ thank you everyone!
<skellat> Thank you representatives from Florida
<itnet7> Thank you!!!
<MichelleQ> Thanks everyone!
<PabloRubianes> congrats Florida Team
<balloons> woot
<costales> Cheers!
 * jose gives balloons to everyone
<mhall119> no, we need him here
 * skellat wonders if that is a human trafficking charge for jose :-D
<balloons> lol..
<balloons> I prefer that to being popped
<jose> no balloons then :(
<mhall119> we prefer cookies in the Florida team :)
<itnet7> :-)
<itnet7> You'd make govatent proud mhall119 ! :-)
<mhall119> I know :)
<skellat> Again, thank you to the Florida team.  I'm going to ping toddy at this moment as Germany is next on the agenda today and I want to make sure Torsten is ready to proceed.
 * mhall119 wonders if Germany has recovered from post-cup celebrations yet
<toddy> Hi from Germany (from near Hamburg). I wish all a nice evening.
<toddy> hi skellat
<skellat> toddy: Are you ready to proceed with the German LoCo application?
<jose> hey toddy!
<toddy> hi jose :)
<PabloRubianes> hello toddy
<toddy> yes, skellat
<toddy> hello PabloRubianes
<skellat> #subtopic Germany
<costales> Hi toddy
<toddy> Hi costales
<skellat> Welcome to Torsten Franz from the German LoCo.  If you could please take a few moments to speak to your community's application, tell us a bit about what is happening in your community, and then prepare for questions from Council members.
<toddy> Our application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GermanTeam/VerificationApplication2014
<toddy> Our LoCo works fine and the most time.
<toddy> We have many projects. The biggest is the portal ubuntuusers.de.
<toddy> There we have an own forum and a wiki which is a documentation of Ubuntu and his programs.
<toddy> Many users from other distributions use this wiki, too.
<toddy> Another project is the booth team.
<toddy> We were on many linux events with a booth and get in talk to other which using Ubuntu.
<toddy> In October we will make a Ubucon with round about 200 visitors.
<toddy> The first time in a village and not a city.
<jose> I heard this one had Ubuntu for Cats?
<jose> s/had/will have/
<toddy> Yes, jose
<toddy> we work with a mobil tablet manufactur
<toddy> together
<costales> You're working a lot with others LUGs :) great!
<toddy> We want present Ubuntu for Touch on this tablets
<toddy> yes, that is correct, costales â the most with the Switzerland
<toddy> And with other LUGs with arch users
<toddy> A lot of formaly ubuntu users are now arch users
<costales> Nice :)
<toddy> and we work together.
<skellat> A switch from Ubuntu mainline to Arch in lieu of one of the flavors?  Any particular reason for that sort of change?
<toddy> That are most the very technicals. Ubuntu is too boring for them.
<toddy> It is too stabil.
<jose> well, I would find that being stable is something good
<jose> they're personal opinions though :)
<skellat> Those are folks who might do great pushing things like Xfce or even Phone forward
<toddy> But they say to there friends, which are more maintream: take ubuntu not arch :)
<skellat> Cool
<toddy> I like stabil
<toddy> We have supporters in our forum which support ubuntu but use the most time arch
<skellat> Do you have a rough estimate as to the number of Ubuntu Member persons in Germany at this point?
<toddy> Ubuntu is more than a distribution. It is a feeling and a life style.
<toddy> moment, I think I have a link.
<toddy> http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/LocoTeam/UbuntuMember
<toddy> I don't know if there are all.
<jose> wow, that's a good list :)
<toddy> I think there could be one or two miss in the list.
<toddy> But I don't know.
<skellat> Okay
<jose> at the moment I see that the team in LP is not following the naming standards, but I would understand this is because of a person with the LP ID of ~ubuntu-de, we could proceed and help you regain the name later on
<toddy> we use ubuntu-de for irc and for all other.
<toddy> what is the standard?
<jose> the Launchpad team would have to be ~ubuntu-de, but you can not change it
<jose> a person has taken that ID so we need to follow a procedure in order for you to claim it
<toddy> ah
<jose> it's currently ~ubuntu-de-locoteam
<toddy> correct
<toddy> I see
<toddy> I haven't notice this.
<jose> it's fine :)
<skellat> There is also an exception if disproportionate cost involved in making the change such as if you have a large amount of print collateral and/or other promotional material that might have to be updated
<toddy> No. That would be good to change it.
<skellat> Okay
<jose> cool, we can follow up on that later today
<toddy> We make materials most with ubuntuusers.de
<jose> awesome
<skellat> Is there any further discussion or are we ready to go for a vote?
<toddy> thanks
<jose> I'm ready to go
<skellat> #vote That the German LoCo be verified for two years from today's date
<meetingology> Please vote on: That the German LoCo be verified for two years from today's date
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<skellat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from skellat
<costales> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from costales
<jose> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jose
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<skellat> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: That the German LoCo be verified for two years from today's date
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<skellat> #info If councilor Shankar had been present for this meeting, his vote would have been +1 relative to Germany
<toddy> Thanks everybody. :)
<costales> Thanks a lot team!! You're doing an amazing work :D Please, keep it! :D Congrats!!! Cheers!
<jose> congratulations, toddy, and keep up the good work
<toddy> Thanks
<jose> I'll follow up with you in order to check the team naming thig
<jose> thing*
<toddy> thanks jose
<PabloRubianes> congrats toddy
<toddy> thanks
<skellat> #topic Consideration of Resolution
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | July 2014 Regular Meeting -- LoCo Council | Current topic: Consideration of Resolution
<skellat> Is it the pleasure of the LoCo Council to consider the resolution put forward earlier?
<jose> -1 on my side
<skellat> Okay
<jose> I have already stated my thoughts on that on the ML
<skellat> We'll defer that to the mailing list
<skellat> #info Consideration of resolution deferred to mailing list
<skellat> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | July 2014 Regular Meeting -- LoCo Council | Current topic: Any Other Business
<skellat> Is there any further business to be brought before the LoCo Council at this time?
<skellat> #info The next regular meeting of LoCo Council is scheduled for 2000 UTC on August 19, 2014.  If there are issues to be brought to our attention before then please contact us via e-mail at loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com to make us aware.
<skellat> And we stand adjourned
<skellat> #endmeeting
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<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 15 20:51:40 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-15-20.00.moin.txt
<costales> Thanks skellat :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-16
<popey> is it meeting o'clock?
<Destine> yes
<rickspencer3> o/
<rickspencer3> I'm all set
<rickspencer3> is there a chair for the meeting?
<popey> #startmeeting Membership Board meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 16 12:02:08 2014 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Membership Board meeting | Current topic:
<popey> there we go.
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards#A12:00
<popey> valentinovd appears to be the only one on the list for today.
<popey> ..and not here...
<popey> lets give them a few mins.
<jared> Evening all
<rickspencer3> hi jared
<popey> hi jared
<jared> Nice to see some new faces
<elfy> or old faces in new places :)
<jared> Hah, yeah well there is that
<popey> oi! â»
<elfy> :)
<Destine> so where is this valentinovd?
<jared> belkinsa just pointed out a little while ago the wiki says the Wednesday the 17th of July is the next meeting
<jared> Which could prove confusing
<popey> oh jeez.
<rickspencer3> oopsie
<popey> Well, it's in the fridge calendar as today, so that's unfortunate.
<popey> Will any of you be around at the same time tomorrow? Perhaps we could have a quick meeting then as we only have one person on the list?
<rickspencer3> popey, well today is Wednesday, so it was a small typo on the wiki, I guess
<popey> yes
<jared> I personally won't be but happy for it to proceed if the person is available.
<rickspencer3> popey, I propose we simply push until the next scheduled meeting
<popey> ok, thats fine by me.
<rickspencer3> that said, I'm happy to meet again if asked
<elfy> actually it's not just a typo - the link to the world clock is for tomorrow as well - jfyi
<popey> I'll email the individual and let them know
<popey> hows that?
<rickspencer3> elfy, but *today* is Wednesday, and tomorrow is the 17th
<rickspencer3> :/
<elfy> yea - click the link with the date in the membership wiki :)
<rickspencer3> I am def. not available tomorrow, btw
<popey> To be fair, this gives valentinovd more time to get their wiki page in order.
<popey> ok, so lets push to next meeting then.
<jared> While we're all here if anyone wants to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards/SittingMembers in their spare time now we have a reshuffle that would be good
<popey> I'll update / fix the wiki
 * elfy is just pointing it out :)
<rickspencer3> thanks popey
<popey> thanks elfy
<popey> So anything else, other than email valentinovd and fix the wiki?
<jared>  Welcome to all the new board members is all I wanted to do
<rickspencer3> thanks jared :)
<popey> Indeed, thanks jared
<popey> Ok, lets wrap then. Hope next month is more successful! :D
<popey> #endmeeting
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<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 16 12:13:37 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-16-12.02.moin.txt
<rickspencer3> thanks elfy, and popey too
<popey> wiki fixed
<Pici> Anyone here?
<rww-> o/
<IdleOne> here
<Pici> Tm_T, hggdh, AlanBell: around?
<Pici> rww-: I don't see a wiki page for you :/
<rww-> Pici: I don't have a wiki page, because I think they're silly :P
<IdleOne> Does rww even need to re-apply for membership seeing how he was already a member?
<rww-> tl;dr of non-existant wikipage: I op lots of channels. When I'm not doing that I'm a co-lead of a LoCo, and recently became a moderator on reddit's ubuntu subreddit. But most of my contribution is snark on IRC.
<IdleOne> I'm not sure what the policy is with this type of situation
<rww-> IdleOne: I figured I'd make it interesting and use the IRC Membership process
<rww-> besides which, part of the point of reviewing applicants is to see if they do enough Ubuntu stuff to qualify, and I'm interested in the answer to that
<IdleOne> rww-: right, but I would think in a case like this there would be a different process. more of a rubber stamp thing because you left in good standing afaik.
<IdleOne> I just asked the other Regional Membership Board members what the policy is if any.
<Pici> rww-: I have no doubt in my mind that you do great work for Ubuntu.
<Pici> IdleOne: thanks
<IdleOne> We might need to ask the CC also what they think. IMPO I know no reason why you wouldn't just get your membership status back
<elfy> as far as Ubuntu Membership is concerned - this member of the Forum Council - who give membership to forum users - would be inclined to just readding someone
<IdleOne> Assuming there is no reason for them not to be added again, which I believe there are none in this case.
<elfy> if that is what the discussion is - and as far as I am aware someone expiring from Ubuntu Membership just asks to be a member again assuming they've not been deactivated
<Pici> Well, it is sort of a moot point, as we don't have quorum to action that.
<elfy> IdleOne: yep
 * elfy disappears into the shadow again 
<Pici> rww-: I thought you deactivated yourself.
<IdleOne> elfy: in rww's case he voluntarily deactivated
<rww-> I removed my group membership, if I recall correctly.
<rww-> The LP account is still active.
<IdleOne> right, you deactivated you Ubuntu membership
<IdleOne> your*
<elfy> IdleOne: I assumed as much - would be a simple get it back with the FC assuming all was as before
<IdleOne> agreed
<rww-> Pici: if that seems like a reasonable path, you could get quorum over email, I guess
<Pici> rww-: I think I will do that.
<IdleOne> +1
<Pici> I personally don't see an issue with you being reinstated.
<IdleOne> I think we all agree. 3 board members from 3 councils
<elfy> :)
<IdleOne> seems to me if you want to make it official by doing an email vote that is fine.
<rww-> up to Pici, I'm fine with whatever
<Pici> rww-: I'll put together an email in a few and hopefully get the other IRCCers blessing on it.
 * rww- nods
<IdleOne> rww-: how long were you "gone" ?
<rww-> IdleOne: no idea
<IdleOne> more or less
<rww-> i might have it on my timeline document at home, I'll check
<Pici> rww-: it could be on your wiki page!
<IdleOne> haha
<elfy> lol
<rww-> Pici: In more important topics, there is actually stuff y'all have to review (#ubuntu-ops-team might be up for it, there's an open bug, and factoid massacre is due for review), so we should probably try for quorum next month :P
<rww-> assuming what's on the wikipage agenda is accurate right now. I don't know if it is.
<rww-> (it thinks it's March right now, so...)
<Pici> We did a factoid massacre recently actually (or at least somewhat recently)
<Pici> Sorry this isn't an extremely formal meeting, we're a bit low on IRCCers and I'm multitasking.
<rww-> right, I think we were supposed to review the effectiveness of that after the fact
<Pici> right
<rww-> in general, I believe factoid massacre wasn't supposed to be the be-all-and-end-all of "make the IRC Team less broken", but IRC team has been plodding along recently so that doesn't really bother me
<Pici> It wasn't directly related to it.
 * rww- nods
<IdleOne> Pici: if you don't mind cc'ing ubuntu-membership-boards@lists.ubuntu.com on this and maybe the CC also?
<elfy> not sure we *need* to know unless there's an issue
<elfy> with my other hat on
<IdleOne> Not trying to take anything away from the IRCC. The way I see it rww applied thorugh the IRCC so it should be your decision but I just would like to try and keep the policy uniform across boards
<Pici> IdleOne: Do you mind if I get the approval of the other IRCCers first?
<Pici> Not that I think it will be an issue, I'd just like to keep the noise to a minimum.
<IdleOne> Pici: fine by me
<IdleOne> I forget elfy wears a lot of hats
<IdleOne> :)
<elfy> ha ha ha
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-17
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 17 15:01:52 2014 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<cjwatson> #topic Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
 * mvo_ waves
<cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<sil2100> o/
<cjwatson> bhuey infinity stgraber doko cjwatson caribou sil2100 xnox barry slangasek robru mvo jodh bdmurray
<bdmurray> cjwatson: I have to run an errand towards the end of the meeting could I go closer to the beginning?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: mkay, why don't you go first, not sure Bill's around
<sil2100> Maybe bdmurray could go first, bdmurray starts with the same letter as bhuey o/
 * sil2100 nods to himself proudly
<bdmurray> and ends with the same letter too!
<sil2100> !
<bdmurray> review of armhf retracing results
<bdmurray> research into missing libmirclientplatform-android-dbgsym issue (its not in the Packages file)
<bdmurray> pinged wgrant, pitti about Packages files on ddebs.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> investigation into apport's error re "package liburcu1 does not exist, ignoring"
<bdmurray> that was due to Contents.gz being out of date
<bdmurray> research into apport bug 1336062 (confirmed and testcase created)
<ubottu> bug 1336062 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-retrace uses system package lists which may return a different source package for a binary" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1336062
<bdmurray> wrote test and submitted mp fixing bug 1336062
<bdmurray> worked with thedac to get apport updated to r2818 which fixes bug 1336062
<bdmurray> modified how the retracer uses the original_sas
<bdmurray> investigation into whoopsie bug 1339916
<ubottu> bug 1339916 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "SystemIdentifier can change between reboots" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1339916
<bdmurray> rewrote and tested how daisy/submit_core.py manages rabbit connections
<bdmurray> pinged jjo about cassandra / swift errors (he'd done something about it already)
<bdmurray> updated daisy-retracer charm and error-tracker-dependencies to use oops-amqp settings
<bdmurray> investigation into missing stacktrace for a specific bucket
<bdmurray> updated daisy to save the retraced crash report if the retraced crash has no Stacktrace
<bdmurray> got the dpkcomparator to build, then it failed oopsrepository tests (sorted that out)
<bdmurray> discussed tearing down newcassandra with thedac (its going to happen)
<bdmurray> irc discussion with plars regarding whoopsie and how it behaves and how it should behave
<bdmurray> â done
<mvo_> tearing it down?
<infinity> * spent a lot of time on the kernel security and SRU updates
<infinity> * was sick for a bit
<infinity> * working on cleaning up last-minute pending bits for trusty point release
<infinity> * EOLing saucy today \o/
<infinity> â
<bdmurray> infinity: oh right, less crashes to accept!
<xnox> infinity: \o/ EOL EOL EOL =)
<cjwatson> #chair slangasek
<meetingology> Current chairs: cjwatson slangasek
<cjwatson> slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7809421/
<slangasek> cjwatson: ta
<infinity> stgraber: You're up.
<doko> continuing ...
<doko> - we are waldmeister
<doko> - openjdk-6 update, security will follow
<doko> - openjdk-7 update
<doko> - gcc-4.8, gcc-4.9 builds, for trusty, utopic, xgene
<doko> - some merges
<doko> - discussing and packaging of some third party software
<doko> - will be at Linaro on Fri, GNU Cauldron the weekend, and travelling back on Mon
<doko> (done)
<mvo_> lol
<cjwatson> Customer meeting.
<cjwatson> Working on parted 3 transition (in Debian).  Almost done - just need to fix partitionmanager and possibly NMU guymager, then get an ack from the Debian release team to start the transition.
<cjwatson> Pushing along the libav transition.  Also almost done - calligra still needs to be fixed, and then I need to coordinate the gallery-app changes.
<cjwatson> Landing team shift on Wednesday.
<cjwatson> launchpad-buildd change to improve compatibility with scalingstack.
<cjwatson> Optimised step A2 of the Launchpad publisher, cutting about three minutes off the primary archive publishing time in several cases.
<cjwatson> Preparing for RTM dogfood dry-run next week.  Discussed CI Train changes, added ubuntu-rtm support to livecd-rootfs, and most of the way through adding support to cdimage.
<cjwatson> ..
<caribou> * Sprint week with team in London
<caribou> * Complete Debian Maintainer application
<caribou> * Complete work on sosreport 3.1 backport on Precise (python3)
<caribou> * Work on sosreport for Debian upstream
<caribou> * Start migration to new escalation workflow
<caribou> (done)
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Landing team work, landing e-mails, landing coordination - standard stuff
<sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
<xnox> caribou: are there details on the new workflow? Would like to be inline with it, when people ping me out of order.
<sil2100>   * Testing new auto merge & clean functionality
<sil2100>   * Performing some security-based tests on the CI Train, reverts
<sil2100>   * Debugging CI Train spreadsheet issues
<sil2100>   * Looking into the jenkins secure start-build remote triggers
<sil2100>   * Work on enabling CI Train for other-than-ubuntu distributions (e.g. ubuntu-rtm)
<sil2100>   * Moving the unapproved-merges check to the publish job
<sil2100>   * Testing the 'do not modify package version' functionality
<sil2100>   * Minor tweaks
<sil2100> - Work on the CI Train Issue tracker:
<sil2100>   * Sniffing around Launchpad's API lack of both JSONP or CORS
<sil2100>   * Working backend, almost finished frontend
<sil2100> - Work on +1 Maintenance:
<sil2100>   * Pushing an updated NEW libaudclient (now accepted into the archive)
<sil2100>   * Pushing some rdeps of libaudclient2 to unblock: audtty, pidgin-audacious, wmaud
<sil2100> - Patch pilot work:
<sil2100>   * Looking at the rp-pppoe release, commenting on some required changes/fixes
<sil2100>   * Sponsoring the osm-gps-map trusty SRU upload
<sil2100> - Help out with packaging advice for various upstreams
<caribou> xnox: shoudn't change anything to UE, mostly to allign with CTS support tools
<sil2100> (done)
<xnox> caribou: ok.
<caribou> xnox: and UE interaction will remain on LP
<xnox> caribou: perfect.
<slangasek> xnox: Contents.gz being out of date> have you made any progress on that?
<xnox> slangasek: nope.
<xnox> * upstart 1.13 landed in the archive \o/
<xnox> * TODO land 1.13.1 into the archive
<xnox> * mdadm 3.3 merge done
<xnox> * plymouth 0.9.0 merge done
<bdmurray> :-(
<xnox>   - but regresses vt_handoff=, e.g. i can instrument and see tty1
<xnox>     getty between plymouth and lightdm
<xnox> * thanks barry for round of reviews on
<xnox>   launchpadlib/lazr.restfulclient, need to fix things up abit more
<xnox>   before proceeding to mass porting of
<xnox>   ubuntu-dev-tools/ubuntu-archivetools, etc.
<xnox> * working on resolving:
<xnox>   - desktop images failing to work in ci.ubuntu.com automated preseeding
<bdmurray> slangasek: we did win that race recently though
<xnox>   - some other installer bugs
<xnox> ..
<xnox> slangasek: bdmurray: should be looking into it later today.
<cjwatson> sil2100: Just to be clear, are you working on both cupstream2distro and the spreadsheet?
<barry> phone: working on releasing system-image 2.3.  lots of work on stabilizing the test suite, investigating, reporting, and working around various external issues (e.g. LP: #1341685).  LP: #1339157.  LP: #1340882.  LP: #1342183.  LP: #1273354.  released 2.3 upstream, now working on the packaging branch for the citrain.  should be ready by eow.
<cjwatson> (for ubuntu-rtm)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1341685 in ubuntu-download-manager "When unconstrained, udm sometimes downloads files to wrong location" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1341685
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1339157 in ubuntu-download-manager "Short term support for wifi-only downloads" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1339157
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1340882 in Ubuntu system image "Include the D-Bus API documentation in system-image-dbus(8)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1340882
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1342183 in Ubuntu system image "systemimage.config.Configuration() should take an ini_file argument" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1342183
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1273354 in Ubuntu system image "The mock service doesn't return downloading==1 for UpdateAvailable when a download is in progress" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273354
<barry> debuntu: zope.browserpage 4.1.0a1-0ubuntu1, zope.formlib 4.3.0a2-0ubuntu1, zope.copypastemove 4.0.0a1-0ubuntu1, debian bug #754016.  still haven't quite gotten all the zope.* packages cleared from -proposed, but i'll be looking at the blockers in more detail after landing system-image 2.3.
<ubottu> Debian bug 754016 in src:python-mode "python-mode: please switch to emacs24" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/754016
<barry> other: helped various colleagues with python issues/questions/porting/reviews.  occasional py3 autopilot merging and pushing.
<barry> done
<sil2100> cjwatson: yes, but I didn't change too much on the spreadsheet side for RTM-support yet as there we're 'always' working on a live system
<sil2100> cjwatson: so I prefer to have the backend finished up and tested first
<cjwatson> xnox: ubuntu-archive-tools should almost all be ready for Python 3 already.  I made some effort there a while back, although most of the porting was a bit blind.
<cjwatson> xnox: There's the problem that I expect some AAs are still running them on trusty, though, and some people other than AAs use ubuntu-archive-tools too.
<cjwatson> So we may need to wait a while before flipping #!.
<cjwatson> sil2100: Right, thanks
<robru> is it my turn? sorry guys I got disconnected at the exact moment that the order was given, I missed it
<barry> slangasek's turn i think
<infinity> robru: You're after slangasek.
<slangasek> caribou: escalation workflow shouldn't change anything for UE> so I should continue to ignore out-of-band requests for help on the nis package? ;-)
<robru> infinity, thanks
<slangasek> ok one sec
<xnox> cjwatson: yeah, I understand that trusty is important and thus shebang shouldn't be changed yet. If i port enough bits and validate that they run correctly, I can look into upstream release of python3 enabled stack, uploads to debian/ubuntu and then possibly backport python3 support into e.g. trusty-backports or some such.
<mvo_> hello, sorry - we had a power outage here
<xnox> mvo_: heat power cut?! =)
<slangasek>  * finishing up the console-setup merge
<slangasek>   * not enough beer in the world
<slangasek>  * working on supporting nss_extrausers in adduser; however, there seem to be various requirements that assume other pieces will Just Work when they don't, now reviewing the spec
<mvo_> probably :)
<slangasek>  * nudged upstart 1.13 into the archive a bit
<slangasek>  * moving the C++11 ABI transition forward so we can unblock gcc-4.9
<mvo_> and no mobile either
<slangasek>  * performance review cycle stuff
<slangasek>  * patch piloting today
<cjwatson> xnox: *nod*
<caribou> slangasek: business as usual
<xnox> slangasek: apw and I can ship more beer to get that merge done =)
<slangasek> xnox: at some point you start to drown in it, and that's also an impediment?
<xnox> slangasek: there is always dehydrated caplets and IV drips.....
<xnox> =))))
<caribou> slangasek: but I thought my OOB request was on pamd
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> caribou: this wasn't you ;)
<slangasek> robru: your turn
<robru> * updated CI Train dashboard and queuebot to not hard-code spreadsheet column numbers, making them more flexible in the face of spreadsheet changes, which will happen soon to support RTM
<robru> * neutered Friends API, so it still exists for compatibility, but does not actually send or receive any messages. this fixes a long-standing security hole on the desktop where Friends would let any app impersonate you on your social networks without any authentication.
<robru> * ton of ongoing landings as usual.
<robru> * Trusty SRU of webapps-greasemonkey
<robru> * branch to drop friends scope from unity7
<robru> * de-seeded friends-app from touch image 131 & up
<robru> * minor branch to fix a merge failure in the g++-4.9 transition
<robru> * tweaked CI Train silo dashboard to not hover-hide MP URLs when there's a search term present. so if you're looking at just a couple silos, you don't need to fiddly-hover over the source package name to see the MP links.
<robru> * also made the hover-mp-list slightly less fiddly to mouse to by squaring-off the top left corner, and decreasing the left margin, so you can mouse to it with less precision.
<robru> â done
<caribou> slangasek: ah
<mvo_> citrain:
<mvo_> - Add warning to the .gs script when low on silos
<mvo_> - Landing team duty
<mvo_> click:
<mvo_> - Code review
<mvo_> - Discussion about click signatures/read the old ML thread to be uptodate
<mvo_> - fix bug in debsigs --delete
<mvo_>   (https://gitorious.org/debsigs/debsigs/merge_requests/1)
<mvo_> - Improve lp:/~mvo/click/lp1334611-getpwnam based on Colins feedback (thanks)
<mvo_> - lp:~mvo/click/click-ubuntu-policy - initial skeleton for the debsig-verify
<mvo_>   based verification
<mvo_> - lp:~mvo/click/debsigs-verify
<mvo_> - Lp:~mvo/click/more-integration-tests3
<mvo_> - Trying to debug #1338994 (no luck)
<mvo_> hwe:
<mvo_> - Debug/fix #1341324 and upload new version to precise-proposed
<mvo_> - Debugged/fixed #1342424 - simple, but underlying problem is in pam,
<mvo_>   created possible solution for this as well
<mvo_> - fix bug in update-motd to take
<mvo_>   /var/lib/update-notifier/disable-hwe-eol-messages into effect when
<barry> robru: RIP friends?
<mvo_>   checking if the cache is still valid
<mvo_> apt:
<mvo_> - Debug/fix bug commandline arg parsing for packages starting with 0/1
<mvo_> - Debug kubuntu upgrade issue with riddel
<mvo_> - Debug/fix segfault Bug#754904
<mvo_> merge:
<mvo_> - Manpages, aptitude, krb5, slang2, curl
<mvo_> - looked at some more like coreutils that are not needed to merge at this
<mvo_>   point, would be nice to have a way to mark them as unneeded somehow
<mvo_> misc:
<mvo_> - command-not-found: fix #1130444 and update data for utopic
<mvo_> - apt-ddtp update/upload
<mvo_> - Phone issues (browser 100%: #1342195, calendar not working #1338956)
<mvo_> (done)
<robru> barry, yep, sorry to say, it just wasn't architected for the mobile world. we can maybe revisit reviving it in 15.04 but it just wasn't suitable to RTM
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - cgroups+async: Released Upstart 1.13 and updated Upstart Cookbook.
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - Fixed bug 1222705.
<ubottu> bug 1222705 in upstart (Ubuntu) "init assert failure: alloc.c:633: Assertion failed in nih_unref: ref != NULL" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222705
<jodh>   - Followed up with a 1.13.1 release.
<jodh>   - Uploaded 1.13.1 to archive.
<jodh> * systemd:
<jodh>   - Fixed bug 1342586.
<ubottu> bug 1342586 in systemd (Ubuntu) "[utopic] [proposed] cgmanager breaks lightdm login" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1342586
<jodh>   - Picking over 'systemd-boot' bugs
<jodh> â
<barry> robru: ah well, who needs friends anyway?
<robru> barry, not me! I got you guys!
<jodh> xnox: we haven't yet actually activated cgroup support in upstart. We need something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/7809486/ but I'm not sure if we need tweaks to d/control for cgmanager?
<barry> robru: with friends like us... :)
<xnox> jodh: i'd rather not tweak tight dependencies and instead do that but with extra || true
<jodh> xnox: my local .conf does exactly that :)
<jodh> xnox: I'll raise an MP...
<slangasek> mvo_: 1342424> I thought you were fixing it to always use ISO dates?  That seems perfectly appropriate to me, and is then not locale-dependent
<xnox> jodh: and i'd want to land that when it's relatively quite in the archive, It's not at the moment. Maybe later on friday and/or over the weekend - monday time.
<mvo_> slangasek: I fixed it that way, yes. I also mentioned in the bugreport that we might consider to make_pamd set the locale/lang environment
<mvo_> slangasek: but that would not be suitable for a sru I think as it may trigger more bugs/unexpected behavior
<slangasek> mvo_: ack
<jodh> xnox: I vote for Monday (Warsaw's Second Law :)
<barry> :)
<mvo_> slangasek: but if that something from the pam maintainers perspective that is worthwhile, I can add it in utopic
<slangasek> mvo_: no, I don't think that warrants an SRU
<slangasek> bhuey: here?
<slangasek> seems not
<slangasek> mvo_: ready to talk about click signing? :)
<xnox> *gasp* exiting =)
<mvo_> sure, get ready for a paste attack
<mvo_> What I'm currently working on: Signatures on Click Packages from
<mvo_> the store and the developers.
<mvo_> Most of the discussion happened about a year ago, Colin suggested to
<mvo_> use debsigs/debsig-verify back then. There was a competing proposal to
<mvo_> just use gpg detached signatures that caused some discussion but the
<mvo_> approach via debsig-verify is much more flexible and robust. Its based
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Click signing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Click signing
<mvo_> on detached gpg signatures that get appended to the deb ar
 * xnox *exciting
<mvo_> container. Because a click is a relocatable deb without the maintainer
<mvo_> script nonsense we can use those tools just fine. All we are currently
<mvo_> providing is SSL (which is obviously not good enough) but we will add
<mvo_> signatures from both the developer and from the store.
<mvo_> How does it work in detail?
<mvo_> - the developer signs the foo.click via "debsig --sign=maint", this
<mvo_>   process will be integrated into qtcreator in some way
<mvo_> - the foo.click is uploaded to the store
<mvo_> - the store checks that the signature is valid and if so appends its
<mvo_>   own "debsig --sign=origin" signature
<mvo_> - user A downloads the click with the 2 sigs
<mvo_> - "click install foo.click" checks the origin signature via
<mvo_>    debsig-verify and rejects invalid/missing ones
<mvo_>    (unless --allow-unauthenticated is given which can overrides
<mvo_>     missing ones)
<mvo_> - developer signature is not used on the user machine *but* the
<mvo_>   developer (or anyone else) can verify that we didn't alter his/her
<mvo_>    click package. "debsigs --delete=origin" will even restore the identical
<mvo_>    click package that got uploaded to the click store
<mvo_> What the current status:
<mvo_> - click branch with debsigs-verify integration is ready for review
<mvo_> - we need a store origin signing key
<mvo_> - the store needs to sign the clicks using debsigs --sign=origin
<mvo_> - a skeleton package click-ubuntu-policy with the debsig-verify policy
<mvo_>   is available, but it needs review and the store signing pubkey
<mvo_> - once click-ubuntu-policy is ready it gets seeded and becomes part
<mvo_>   of the base image
<mvo_> - we do not need to modify any of the higher layers (scope, updater)
<mvo_> References:
<mvo_> - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ClickPackageSigning
<mvo_> - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click/+bug/1330770
<mvo_> ---
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1330770 in click (Ubuntu) "click packages rely upon tls for integrity and authenticity" [High,In progress]
<mvo_> thats the part I prepared :) I think this is the first time I'm part of such a session
<xnox> mvo_: how does debsigs work? is it extra members in the ar archive?
<cjwatson> it is
<mvo_> xnox: yes, it adds a extra member for the origin and the maintainer
<mvo_> (so one extra each)
<cjwatson> _gpg<arbitrary name>
<slangasek> '"debsigs --delete=origin" will even restore the identical click package that got uploaded to the click store' - oh, nice
<mvo_> yeah, thats a nice property - once the fix for this lands upstream, but we can just distro patch it
<cjwatson> even without debsigs --delete=origin working (which mvo had to fix), debsigs is append-only, so you can see that your previous package is a prefix
<xnox> are we gonna sign archive binaries like that as well?
<xnox> imho it would be benefitial that e.g. one can downloads debs direct from launchpadlib and verify them.
<xnox> instead of just relying on the librarian SSL
<slangasek> out of scope ;)
<cjwatson> .debs have the chain of trust back to Release.gpg - there are some fringe benefits like that to signing them inline, but I'm not sure it's worth the hassle
<cjwatson> and indeed, out of scope
<cjwatson> we still need to organise some kind of meeting to generate and shard a store signing key
<slangasek> note that Debian has consistently refused to support debsigs for packages in the Debian archive
<cjwatson> that's on the floor right now unless somebody has picked it up lately
<slangasek> on the grounds that it would seduce users into trusting them in bad ways
<xnox> ETOMANYSHARDS =)
<cjwatson> tell me about it <looks at bag>
<infinity> slangasek: Debian has the problem that their binaries are generated on a whole lot of machines owned/operated by a whole lot of people.
<infinity> slangasek: We could certainly sign our binaries in a more verifiably secure fashion.
<slangasek> heh, so we want all the same keymanagement for this as for our other keys?
<cjwatson> infinity: that's true of click packages too - we're applying the store signature centrally later
<infinity> (Oh, I guess they could sign on ftpmaster with this append mode business)
<cjwatson> debsigs supports multiple signatures for this kind of reason
<slangasek> infinity: that's not the reason ftpmasters reject them
 * xnox ponders if _my_ debs would be rejected if I debsign them.
<slangasek> xnox: yes
<xnox> poodles =(
<barry> infinity: there were some long threads about source-only uploads a la ubuntu, but that seems to have petered out :/
<cjwatson> slangasek: so, I don't know how much of the full panoply we want, but if we have a key that's being trusted by a gazillion client devices we should manage it securely
<cjwatson> it probably isn't immediately necessary to have it signed by the Ã¼ber-master key
<xnox> cjwatson: just convert the ssl private key into a gpg key *giggle* =)
<xnox> (the store one)
<slangasek> cjwatson, mvo_: is key rotation already specced out?
<slangasek> xnox: I'm returning this beer, it's clearly been doped with something
<mvo_> not in detail, my current plan is to have it as part of the ubuntu-click-policy package that can be updated as part of the system-image
<slangasek> ok
<mvo_> I'm not sure if that is in line with the vision of cjwatson and the security team
<slangasek> I guess we should have that written up sooner rather than later and get eyeballs on it :)
<mvo_> yes, I will send out a mail after the meeting
<xnox> slangasek: =)))))
<slangasek> cool
<slangasek> any other questions for mvo?
<slangasek> btw, if we're updating it via a package that's in the system-image anyway, maybe it makes sense to just chain it off one of the existing trust chains in the image instead of creating a whole new root
<slangasek> i.e., avoid the whole "must reconstitute an offline key to rotate this key"
 * mvo_ nods
<barry> that's not a bad idea
<barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/GPG
<slangasek> mvo_: thanks for filling us in on your work!
<mvo_> thanks for listening
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<mvo_> (or reading)
<slangasek> anything else?
 * mvo_ mumbles something about the heat
<infinity> What he said.
 * slangasek is getting quotes for air conditioning this week
<infinity> As my phone would autocorrect to, "ducking summer".
<ogra_> icecream !
<barry> slangasek: what was that about the debconf dorms again? :)
<slangasek> stay tuned for ranty blogs about internet-enabled thermostats that don't let you manage them without talking to a third-party server!
<slangasek> barry: well, so far the summer has been surprisingly muggy; I have no reason to believe this will continue into the end of August, Portland usually has its heat wave around this time or a couple of weeks later and then it tapers off - e.g., it's supposed to be 70 degrees this weekend ;)
<infinity> Is that it?  Can I reboot my firewall now?
<barry> slangasek: perfect!
<slangasek> barry: but a heat pump has been on our todo list for a few years, and this year I'm actually in town for the 95 degree weather, so ;)
<slangasek> infinity: yep!
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 17 15:46:50 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-17-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks all
<barry> thanks!
<mvo_> thanks
<slangasek> and thanks cjwatson for covering in the face of my ipv6 issues :)
<sil2100> o/
<caribou> thanks !
<xnox> tah
<jodh> thanks!
<elfy> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 17 17:07:35 2014 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<elfy> seems that there's just YokoZar and me from the CC at the moment
<YokoZar> Hello
<hannie> hi elfy
<hannie> and all
<elfy> hi hannie
<howefield> hello all
<bapoumba> hello !
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<elfy> forums council is first - and I know they are here :)
<elfy> so - bapoumba howefield coffeecat - how's things going there
<elfy> oops
<elfy> #topic Forum Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Forum Council
<bapoumba> good from my perspective elfy
<elfy> is there anything that we can help with
<YokoZar> So the standard question I like to present at these catchups is if there's any friction between you and other teams you think could go smoother
<YokoZar> Eg if you've been waiting on something or similar
<bapoumba> we have much stuff going on
<bapoumba> but no frictions
<howefield> FC are working on quite a few topics to improve the forums which will need help form others but no friction for now
<bapoumba> as I'm new on FC, are these catch ups to resolve issues ?
<elfy> if there are any :)
<bapoumba> OK thanks :)
<YokoZar> bapoumba: They're also just a good way of finding smallish (or biggish) things that people don't bring up unless prodded
<bapoumba> well, we've been talking with the doc team
<bapoumba> they'd like some area on the forums, we're working that out with them
<hannie> That's good to know. The doc team has come to live again
<bapoumba> Hey hannie, we've been talking with Doug S and Peter
<hannie> ah, great. I follow them on their list.
<hannie> both great guys
<bapoumba> hannie, yes :)
<bapoumba> we get to know Doug better as he is active on the forums
<hannie> It is always good to see more cooperation between teams
<bapoumba> hannie, yes
<elfy> so generally everything is ok at the moment
<bapoumba> elfy, yes from me
<howefield> in the short time I have been on the FC, things haven't moved so fast, so pretty good tbh.
<elfy> indeed :)
<elfy> YokoZar: anything from you ?
<YokoZar> I'm just generally reassured.  Forums are in general a hard thing to get right.
<elfy> well I'm good with what's going on obviously
<bapoumba> YokoZar, ?
<YokoZar> bapoumba: I'm proud of our forums.  Most web forums are not something I'd be proud of ;)
<bapoumba> :)
<bapoumba> thanks
<howefield> that's really good to hear.
<bapoumba> YokoZar, we'll pass it on to the moderation team if you do not mind
<YokoZar> Of course.
<bapoumba> YokoZar, I see you used to post there :)
<elfy> I will add that we appear to have got a good working relationship going with IS now generally - which was in the past something the FC has needed help with
<elfy> we certainly don't feel quite like the red-headed step child so much now
<hannie> What's IS?
<bapoumba> elfy, that was from the past past
<elfy> indeed
<elfy> ok - if there's nothing else we can move on I think
<elfy> anything from FC ?
<bapoumba> not from me, thanks for the kind words YokoZar
<YokoZar> Thank you FC
<howefield> thanks elfy
<howefield> and YokoZar
<coffeecat> thanks
<elfy> thanks all
<bapoumba> thanks elfy
<elfy> # Topic Translations team
<elfy> so - is there anyone here from the translations team ?
<hannie> yes, but I think I am the only one
<hannie> That is, I am from Ubuntu Dutch translators
<elfy> hi hannie - good to see you again :)
<hannie> There is no such thing as a Translations team, as far as I know. Only local teams
<hannie> hey elfy, yes, it's a long time since we last spoke to each other
<elfy> yes understood, though I was under the impression there was at least a mailing list for translations
<hannie> yes, the mailing list is the form of communication between local teams
<elfy> ok - so the invitation we sent was a general one to the list :)
<hannie> It is a good means to make contact with others about translations issues
<hannie> yes, there is not really a translators coordinator. In the past it was David Planella
<elfy> hannie: so generally as far as you know - all is well?
<elfy> I'd guess that he still is
<YokoZar> Are translations something that need active coordination these days?
<hannie> yes, the gui of the Ubuntu Desktop (Trusty) is translated in many languages
<hannie> No, David has moved on to the ubuntu os for cellphones
<YokoZar> What I mean is that I think we've automated/routineized most of the translations infrastructure, and I think bootstrapped most languages with at least small translation teams to get started
<YokoZar> *made routine
<YokoZar> "by translation teams" I mean volunteers like you of course
<hannie> We use Launchpad to translate. All  the ubuntu packages are placed there to be translated in many different languages.
<hannie> Local translation teams usually work on their own, but they communicate via the translators mailing list
<hannie> I think this is a good structure. No complaints from my side, except that Lauchpad keeps on giving us headaches
<hannie> It very often produces errors while saving to LP
<hannie> We have filed bugs in the past, but to no avail. I guess we have to learn to live with those errors
<elfy> hannie: was just about to ask that
<hannie> Ok. But in general, like I said, it works fine as is
<hannie> elfy, if there are no questions on translations, I think this is what I had to say. It is a pity there are not more translators here
<YokoZar> You're not the only part of the project to complain about Launchpad :)
<YokoZar> Thank you though
<elfy> indeed
<elfy> thanks for your time hannie
<hannie> ah, good to know (
<hannie> ok, everyone, see you all next time
<hannie> thanks elfy, for being chair
<elfy> bye hannie
<elfy> YokoZar: unless there's anything else I guess we can wrap that up
<elfy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 17 17:52:52 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-17-17.07.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-13
<rdarw> major
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
 * tyhicks kicks the meeting bot
<teward> tyhicks: possible it's down with all the other bots?
<teward> if you'd like i'll drop Archangel (my bot) in here, then provide a publicly accessible copy of the logs for you for the meeting.
<teward> or pull it from my raw logs here on my client
<tyhicks> teward: possibly - I'm not aware of any others being down
<tyhicks> teward: thanks but I've got a logger going
<teward> ack
<tyhicks> I guess I'll just proceed
 * teward lurks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
<tyhicks> Thanks to Otto KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen (otto) for providing a debdiff to update mariadb-10.0 in vivid (LP: #1451677)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1451677 in mariadb-10.0 (Ubuntu) "USN-2575-1: MySQL vulnerabilities partially also applies to MariaDB" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1451677
<jdstrand> fyi, in the past when the bot was down I just pasted the irc into the wiki page rather than pointing it somewhere else
<tyhicks> ok
<jdstrand> (at the end of the meeting)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> today we had the oobe meeting with design. it went well, there are followups and discussions that need to be had that we'll capture in trello
<jdstrand> I need to continue going over the IoM summaries and takeaways
<jdstrand> I've got an embargoed item I am working on
<jdstrand> I'd like to finish up the ubuntu-personal-security policy bits
<jdstrand> then pick up a card as have time
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on bug triage this week
<mdeslaur> it's a short week for me as I'm on holiday friday and monday
<mdeslaur> I'm working on a certificate issue in the ca-certificates package which I hope will be fixed soon
<mdeslaur> and I'm going down the CVE list
<mdeslaur> I'll probably be stealing the in-progress nbd updates from sbeattie
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
<sbeattie> I'm trying to finish up the last patch reviews needed for an apparmor 2.10 release that we can pull into wily
<sbeattie> I need to look at doko's gcc-5 plans
<sbeattie> and that will probably consume my week
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I had a little bit of community sponsoring work left over from last week that I did this morning (smoke test and publish mariadb-10.0)
<tyhicks> I will review the kdbus LSM hook patch set this week
<tyhicks> I need to determine the best way to fix an auditing bug in the phone images (I've already sent a patch that will fix the issue in new kernels)
<tyhicks> I want to get back to my UCT-to-trello bridge
<tyhicks> and I have several embargoed issues
<tyhicks> I think that's it for me
<tyhicks> sarnold: skipping to you as I don't see jj
<sarnold> I'm on community this week, if someone wants to tackle updates for http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/proftpd-dfsg.html I know a few users would appreciate the fixes; I'll also be working on the ppc64-diag "follow-on" package auditing; upstream suggested that we audit git instead, which makes some sense, I hope they can be repackaged for our 14.04.3 release quickly enough.
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> After last week, I was hoping to get through some Oxide reviews this week and carry on with https://launchpad.net/oxide/+milestone/branch-1.9
<chrisccoulson> But Firefox has something to say about that
<tyhicks> :/
<chrisccoulson> I've got 1 embargoed update to do, and I also need to do the thunderbird update
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<sarnold> would it make sense at some point to revert precise back to a firefox ESR release?
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I asked in the other channel. is there something I/we can do to help with firefox?
<chrisccoulson> I'm not sure atm. I'd like to be able to reproduce this crash, but I can't
<tyhicks> the 14.04 crash?
<chrisccoulson> Yeah
<tyhicks> I can try in a VM
<chrisccoulson> That's what I'm doing at the moment too
<doko> sbeattie, please delay any config changes until the GCC 5 transition is done
<doko> it's already ugly enough
<sbeattie> doko: okay
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: ok, I'll get my trusty-amd64 vm updated and let you know what happens
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<tyhicks> sbeattie: I guess that means you should have full focus on aa 2.10 and getting it uploaded to wily this week
<tyhicks> sbeattie: if that goes quickly, picking up a MIR would be a good idea
<sbeattie> tyhicks: I forgot I had another thing on my plate, finishing up fixing QART issues on arm64
<tyhicks> ah, ok
<tyhicks> sbeattie: those are seccomp test failures, right?
<tyhicks> (due to symbol craziness)
<tyhicks> you can tell me later
<sbeattie> no, this is the test-kernel-security.py stuff, dealing with and testing for different configs
<tyhicks> oh
<tyhicks> ok
<tyhicks> moving on
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/boost1.48.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jython.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dhcpcd5.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/charybdis.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/texmacs.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold, ChrisCoulson (and teward): Thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-14
<Qolin> First time here. Have no idea what I'm doing. Will go in peace.
<smoser> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<ddellav> o/
<thedac> o/
<arges> o/
<coreycb> Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the Ubuntu Server IRC meeting
<coreycb> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<beisner> o/
<coreycb> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<coreycb> there were no action points from the previous meeting
<matsubara> o/
<coreycb> #topic Wily Development
<coreycb> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<coreycb> I can't tell if the bot is working
<coreycb> today is July 14
<coreycb> at least where I live it is
<coreycb> Alpha 2 is coming up in about 2 weeks on July 30
<beisner> jul 14 here too ;-)
<beisner> you are the bot
<coreycb> :)
<coreycb> and we're a little over a month until Feature Freeze for wily
<coreycb> which is Aug 20
<coreycb> #subtopic Release Bugs
<coreycb> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<coreycb> there are 3 high priority bugs, 2 of which are appear to be fixed or almost fixed
<coreycb> bug 1461242 is assigned to Odd_Bloke, not sure what the status of that bug is
<ubottu> bug 1461242 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Wily) "cloud-init does not generate ed25519 keys" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1461242
<coreycb> smoser, got any status on that?
<coreycb> I'll make a note to check in with him and get some status in the meeting minutes
<coreycb> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<smoser> coreycb, i do not. i'll take a look though
<coreycb> smoser, thanks
<coreycb> looks like caribou isn't here today
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> nothing new to report coreycb
<coreycb> matsubara, ok thanks
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing here... except its getting warm/hot again... Questions?
<smoser> i'll bother smb in #ubuntu-server some
<coreycb> smb, ah yeah keep your fans running!
<coreycb> ok, thanks smb, if nothing else let's move on
<coreycb> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
<coreycb> I think tomorrow is the deadline for openstack talk submissions for tokyo
<coreycb> yeah it's tomorrow, July 15
<coreycb> so get your talk submitted if you are planning to submit one
<coreycb> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
<coreycb> are there any upcoming events?
<coreycb> #topic Open Discussion
<coreycb> does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?
<arges> everything is great. keep up the good work
<beisner> coreycb, may be worth mentioning the 15.07 os-charm release/freeze dates
<coreycb> beisner, ah yeah that's going to be ~July 30th I believe
<coreycb> ^ release of next charms to stable
<coreycb> freeze is July 23rd
<coreycb> ok thanks everyone
<coreycb> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<coreycb> July 21 16:00 UTC
<coreycb> #endmeeting
<beisner> thanks coreycbot
<matsubara> thanks coreycb
<coreycb> gaughen, you're up next week.  do you still want to be on the list of chairs?
<gaughen> coreycb, sure, np
<coreycb> gaughen, ok thanks
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> \o
<ogasawara> o/
<henrix> o/
<kamal> o/
<ppisati> \o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have rebased the master-next branch of our Wily kernel to 4.1 and are
<ogasawara> working through fixing up kernel test failures as well as failing DKMS
<ogasawara> packages with this newer kernel.  We continue to track the 4.2 kernel in
<ogasawara> our unstable repo.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs July 30 - Alpha 2 (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 6 - 14.04.3 (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 20 - Feature Freeze (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 27 - Beta 1 (~6 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *  Utopic - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *  Vivid  - Verification & Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 04-Jul through 25-Jul
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          03-Jul   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 05-Jul - 11-Jul   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 12-Jun - 25-Jul   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<bjf> ** NOTE: This cycle produces the kernel that will be in the 14.04.3
<bjf>          point release.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<cking> nice one
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-16
<caribou> o/
<pitti> o/
<cyphermox> \o
<sil2100> o/
<barry> o\
 * stgraber waves
<robru> aloha
<cyphermox> barry: we're just missing o| and o-
<barry> ~o
<barry> o~
<cyphermox> oâ
<pitti> hey stgraber, welcome back!
 * slangasek waves
<pitti> hey slangasek
<slangasek> #startmeeting
 * slangasek buys everyone a little time to finish writing ;)
<slangasek> ho, no bot today?
<sil2100> uh
<sil2100> Oh no
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti)
<slangasek> doko caribou cyphermox bdmurray infinity slangasek robru pitti sil2100 barry
<barry> \o/
<doko> - GCC 5.2 release candidate
<doko> - fixed non touch ftbfs in the silo 16 (GCC 5)
<doko> - fixed most ftbfs for the libstdc++ transition rebuilds (some will be autoremoved)
<doko> - syncs and merges
<pitti> wow, this has never fit on one line :(
<doko> (done)
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  - ifenslave ambigous message (Bug #1326854)
<ubottu> bug 1326854 in ifenslave-2.6 (Ubuntu) "ambiguous error message "sh: echo: I/O error"" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1326854
<caribou>    * Fix now in debian ifenslave-2.7 needs merging
<caribou>  Charm dev
<caribou>  - Continued work on Kernel Crash Dump subordinate charm
<caribou>  Merges
<caribou>  - Continue work on rsyslog merge
<caribou>    Need to disable liblogging-stdlog use
<caribou> (done)
<cyphermox>  * network-manager-applet bug 1418260 + SRU
<cyphermox>  * finally released network-manager 0.9.10.0-0ubuntu7 from silo 27
<cyphermox>  * debugged NM failing autopkgtests (802.11a failing reproducibly)
<ubottu> bug 1418260 in Network Manager Applet "nm-applet crashed with SIGSEGV in add_menu_item()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418260
<cyphermox>  * discussed workflow for NM/ofono patches to packaging branch
<cyphermox>  * multipath-tools:
<cyphermox>    - investigated how to ignore USB devices and local non-mpath disks
<cyphermox>    - prepared much SRUs for Trusty, Vivid for multipath support
<cyphermox>  * preparing fwupdate / EFI capsule blueprint
<cyphermox>  * debugged wily desktop LVM smoketest failures
<cyphermox> â
<bdmurray> updated proper-ppa support merge proposal based off pitti's feedback
<bdmurray> resolved a test failure with apport ppa changes and python2
<bdmurray> updated apport retracer hack branch not to generate a StacktraceSource since errors doesn't use it
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have apport updated on the staging retracers
<bdmurray> working on bug LP: #1473562
<bdmurray> created apt-clone merge proposal to list foreign packages installed
<bdmurray> reported livecd-rootfs bug 1471903 (-updates missing from apt lists)
<bdmurray> fixed merge-o-matic bug LP: #252420 (link to LP page of uploader)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1473562 in apport (Ubuntu) "Too many crash files kill the device" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1473562
<ubottu> bug 1471903 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "-updates, -security missing from apt lists" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1471903
<bdmurray> worked on merge-o-matic sorting by age
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 252420 in Merge-o-Matic "UI: make uploader linked to their launchpad page" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/252420
<bdmurray> updated merge-o-matic on the server so merges are sorted by age and display an age (LP: #881487)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 881487 in Merge-o-Matic "need to be able to see how long it's been since the package was last merged" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/881487
<bdmurray> investigation into how to fix updated merges section of merge-o-matic output
<bdmurray> submitted bug report regarding merge-o-matic and updated section (LP: #1474139)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1474139 in Merge-o-Matic "many a package incorrectly listed in updated section" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1474139
<bdmurray> â done
<robru> no infinity, slangasek?
<slangasek> seems not
<slangasek>  * ppc64el tracking for 14.04.3
<slangasek>  * helping with the gcc5 transition (test uploads to silo)
<slangasek>  * SRU processing for 14.04.3
<slangasek>  * blueprinting of this cycle's work
<slangasek> (done)
<robru> * Working closely with IS on the Bileto rollout, many revisions to the mojo spec
<robru> * Various minor bugfixes for cu2d and bileto
<robru> * Ported queuebot from google spreadsheet to bileto.
<robru> (done)
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Adjust snappy setup script for changed ubuntu-device-flash structure in wily
<pitti>  - Handle build profiles in build deps parsing (Debian #787093), get rid of local gpg archive signing (#1472691), various smaller fixes
<ubottu> Debian bug 787093 in autopkgtest "autopkgtest: dpkg-deb chokes with build profiles in Build-Depends:" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/787093
<pitti> autopkgtest-cloud:
<pitti>  - Roll out non-authoritative cloud tests triggered and displayed in britney; fix fallout in britney, autopkgtest, network config
<pitti>  - Add email setup and notification on worker failure (in progress)
<pitti>  - brief Laney about current setup, to watch infra while I'm away next week
<pitti> systemd: bug fixes (1466790, 1470845, write initial networkd autopkgtest; start adding if-up.d/ support to networkd
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - fix missing ddebs in ddeb-retriever, recovered all possibly missing ddebs since April
<pitti>  - build/test first wily langpacks
<pitti>  - review/fix/land https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/apport/support-ppa-packages/+merge/263437
<pitti>  - merges: lvm2, ifupdown, sane-backends
<pitti> plan: holiday next week and the Monday after
<pitti> ð
<pitti> ð
<pitti> bah! my shiny little END char isn't displaying
<slangasek> it shows here
<cyphermox> yep
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Manually prepare updates of all language packs for ubuntu touch OTA-5 re-spin
<sil2100> - Rebuild the OTA-5 candidate
<sil2100> - Leading the RTM status meeting
<sil2100> - Commitlog generation scripts:
<sil2100>   * Enabling fully automated commitlog generation on canonistack
<sil2100>   * Code refactoring for better testability
<sil2100>   * Started work on enabling support of bileto
<sil2100> - Investigating issue with custom dconf overrides not working for certain update cases
<sil2100> - Adding qml-module-qtbluetooth to the seeds
<sil2100> - Prepare OTA-5 snapshot to the snapshot PPA for the arale dconf bug-fix
<sil2100> - Discussions regarding Qt 5.5 and gcc-5 transitions
<sil2100> - Prepare quick tool for lising overlay-PPA source packages from manifests
<sil2100> - Started preparing release notes for OTA-5
<sil2100> - Lower work capacity due to not feeling too good
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> (no fancy UTF-8 signs)
<sil2100> ;)
<barry> python 3.5 transition.  ~80% passing builds in ppa, new python3-defaults w/3.5 enabled but not default uploaded to wily, blocked in proposed.  first step: clear proposed.  then: mass rebuild and ftbfs fixes.  LP: #1474882
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1474882 in python3-defaults (Ubuntu) "Make Python 3.5 a supported version" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1474882
<barry> LP: #1473577 and new upstream/PyPI/Debian release
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1473577 in lazr.restfulclient "Python 3.5 test failures" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1473577
<barry> python-packaging 15.2-1, tox 2.1.1-1
<barry> git-dpm transition for dpmt.  we are ready to go!
<barry> looking again into rewheel to solve the wheel/pip/virtualenv problem.
<barry> upgraded main dev box to wily
<barry> --done--
<doko> barry, how many are 20%?
<barry> doko: 219
<doko> ugh
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#python3-defaults (enabling 3.5) has quite a lot of test fallout too
<barry> well, it's long tail universe stuff mostly (django being the exception)
<barry> pitti: indeed, i'm starting with those.  couldn't do dep-8 testing in ppa really
<pitti> some looks simple, like python-apt trips over some new deprecation warnings etc.
<pitti> barry: I hope I have PPA dep-8 support working in at most a month :)
<barry> pitti: :)
<barry> pitti: yep.  haven't yet decided whether to allow-stderr, add __future__ warning or fix the generators.  this is pep 479
<barry> fallout
<slangasek> alright, anything else on status we should discuss?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<slangasek> or anything else going on?
<slangasek> anyone have fun vacations planned this summer? :)
<pitti> we'll go bicycling and tenting through the alps next week
<bdmurray> I'm going to hike into the crater of Mt St Helens
<doko> going to GCC land ...
<barry> fixing python 3.5 failures
<cyphermox> Ingress! almost made it to level 7 last night
<bdmurray> I already did this https://www.flickr.com/photos/84343144@N00/sets/72157652925369914
<caribou> cyphermox: I'm about to remove it from my phone, haven't played in months
<slangasek> doko: GCCland, sounds like a strange island with lots of sharp pointy bits
<cyphermox> bdmurray: very cool!
<pitti> bdmurray: wow, that looks deep!
<cyphermox> there's lots of different scientific research outings over here, I just never have the opportunity to go
<bdmurray> oh, to be clear I was a sherpa for them. I didn't go into the caves.
<cyphermox> still :)
<bdmurray> still indeed! If all goes well I should be sherpa'ing up Mt Rainier too.
<slangasek> bdmurray: hopefully not this one http://q13fox.com/2015/07/07/crews-work-to-recover-body-of-34-year-old-woman-in-ice-cave-collapse/
<doko> heh, ice man
<slangasek> (you know, the one that had signs posted warning people to stay out)
<bdmurray> no, these are on the summit of Rainier
<pitti> yeah, it took Ãtzi like 20.000 years before they found him :)
<slangasek> well yes, but he was stabbed in the back and left to die, totally different
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<slangasek> that's probably everything we need to cover then
<ogra_> you guys *never* have a thunder round after the lightning round
 * slangasek waves his fake gavel around
<caribou> slangasek: thanks!
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<cyphermox> ogra_: you just need to wait longer, we're *that* fast
<ogra_> haha
<davmor2> ogra_: they do it's just you can't hear anything
<barry> thanks!
<pitti> ogra_: â
<ogra_> davmor2, IRC builtin noise reduction ?
<cyphermox> IRC has perfect noise reduction
<pitti> ogra_: actually, this is better: ð©
<ogra_> pitti, my font doesnt seem to have either :(
<davmor2> ogra_: it looks like this ð© :D
<teward> 0x01F329 - blah no rendering of it in hexchat :P
 * pleia2 waves
<pleia2> CC meeting time
<pleia2> rounding up other folks
<pleia2> while we wait, anyone from ubuntu studio or xubuntu here?
<Unit193> Nope.
<pleia2> hey dpm
<dpm> o/
<pleia2> just me so far, seeing if I can find anyone else
<pleia2> ah, there's Cprofitt_
<dpm> ok, cool
<pleia2> mhall119 said he can't make it, not sure about czajkowski
<pleia2> seems dholbach logged off for the day already
<Cprofitt_> I am on vacation... And on my tablet using webchat.
<dpm> ok
<Cprofitt_> So may make spelling mistakes and be slow
<dpm> yes, dholbach told me he had to go
<pleia2> alright, might as well get started anyway
<pleia2> #startmeeting Ubuntu Community Council
<pleia2> and not bot
<pleia2> s/not/no
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<pleia2> boo
<pleia2> alright!
<dpm> seems it's off for the day too :)
<pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda#General_Agenda_Items_and_Proposals
<pleia2> since we don't have anyone from studio/xubuntu yet, we can jump in to dpm's agenda item
<pleia2> #topic CLS topics review and prioritization
<dpm> wfm
<dpm> so essentially the topic is about reviewing the brainstorming topics on this document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bimzQVB3YMBmTPZhX9LWtBn7BMJ__pMuDxvSrDaQd24/edit#
<pleia2> several of us find ourselves at CLS this weekend (czajkowski is even doing a plenary!) so the CC is meeting up with dpm of the community team at canoniocal
<pleia2> and yeah, brainstorming on that doc on topics
<dpm> \o/
<dpm> yeah, so for those not familiar to the topic, essentially, that is the context ^
<pleia2> seeking to narrow it down to a few talking points that we can bring up as CLS sessions to talk to the broader community... community about to see who has similar issues, advice, etc
<pleia2> then on Monday/Tuesday we're going to talk about them more Ubuntu-specificy and see what action items can come out of it
<pleia2> so I might as well just dive on in with what I think is important, since others couldn't make it
<dpm> exactly
<dpm> ok, cool
<pleia2> 1. Declining participation
<pleia2> the document notes this both for LoCos and Summits
<pleia2> seems that's one that will have broad appeal
<dpm> I suggested to pick a few (5, but it doesn't need to be this exact number)
<pleia2> 2. Community cohesion
<pleia2> I think we've lost a lot since having UDS in person, not sure how others have been feeling
<pleia2> obviously doing UDS again isn't the answer (for all the reasons Canonical stopped doing them) but I feel quite disconnected these days
<pleia2> 3. Barriers related to [the perception of] company-driven control and development
<pleia2> perception of closed door dealings, invite-only sprints, employees treating community members like customers at events
<dpm> I've just changed to docs points to numbers to make it easier to refer to them
<dpm> pleia2, would the "declining participation" topic map to any of the existing ones in the doc, or shall we just add a new one?
<dpm> I could see it being part of 3. or 5.
<dpm> but as we were talking about generalizing them, we might just rewrite it
<dpm> for the record, I also think that one is important
 * dpm takes notes
<dpm> I'd also pick "lack of a new generation of leaders"
<pleia2> dpm: re declining participation, I'd put 2 & 3 from the google doc together
<pleia2> and 5
<pleia2> ++ lack of new leaders
<pleia2> my #2 maps to 12 on the document
<Cprofitt_> I think 9 and 12 are important, but will not be in attendance. I will submit some thoughts on both before the event if they are chosen.
<pleia2> and my #3 to 8, 9 and 10
<pleia2> Cprofitt_: thanks
<pleia2> Iseug s 7 too
<ochosi> without wanting to disrupt your meeting, i'm here now
<pleia2> er, "I guess"
<pleia2> ochosi: thanks!
<dpm> Cprofitt_, your feedback will be really useful, thanks!
<pleia2> those are the important ones for me
 * dpm takes notes
<Cprofitt_> Overall I am concerned with the CC taking a. more active roll in developing opportunities for community involvement.
<dpm> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> Cprofitt_: you want the CC to take a more active roll, or not?
<Cprofitt_> Both development and non development work.
<pleia2> *role
<Cprofitt_> More active
<pleia2> that might be a different conversation, we're already quite busy as it is, I can't speak for everyone but I wouldn't have time to add to my CC workload
<Cprofitt_> I think the current passive roll is not serving the community as well as an active role would
<pleia2> Cprofitt_: maybe an agenda item for our next CC meeting?
<pleia2> I'd like to hear from other CC members on this, maybe I'm just more busy than most :)
<dpm> without being in the CC, I also think it's an important topic, but it might be a bit too specific for CLS. Happy to join another meeting if it's part of the agenda and I can help in any way with the discussion
<pleia2> dpm: so we have 4 topics, shall we each submit one at CLS? (you, mhall119, czajkowski and me)
<dpm> that would be quite a good match, yeah
<dpm> I think if we feel we need to have an extra one, we can add it to the meeting outside of CLS
<pleia2> sounds good
<pleia2> dpm: anything else you wanted to talk about now?
<dpm> pleia2, not specifically, I had a call with Jono about logistics, perhaps we can discuss it offline after this meeting has finished? It's about the organization and schedule for the meeting, but I'm not sure it's interesting for anyone other than the attendees
<pleia2> dpm: outside meeting sounds good, thanks
<pleia2> I'll also do a blog post later today about our plans, might be some more community feedback I can grab too
<dpm> excellent
<dpm> then I think that was all I had, in any case, we'll see each other in person before starting - you said you'd be there for the pre-CLS evening event, IIRC?
<pleia2> dpm: thanks for coming, and again for handling logistics
<pleia2> I'm really excited that we were able to arrange this all in short notice :)
<dpm> yeah :)
<pleia2> dpm: yep, I get to Portland around 3:30PM tomorrow
<Cprofitt_> I view it as a framework as we discuss the items on the list for cls
<pleia2> so I'll go to the pre-event thing Friday night
<dpm> pleia2, cool, I think I'll be there at around 18:00, so I'm planning to be at the pre-event too
<pleia2> Cprofitt_: think you could send a mail to the CC list about it and we'll follow up next meeting?
<pleia2> dpm: great, see you tomorrow! :)
<dpm> \o/
 * pleia2 needs to pack
<pleia2> ok, let's move this meeting along
<pleia2> #topic Xubuntu catch-up
<pleia2> hi ochosi and Unit193!
<Unit193> I'm not here.
<Cprofitt_> Yes
<Cprofitt_> When I get home tomorrow morning
<pleia2> Cprofitt_: great, thanks
<ochosi> pleia2: note that i've never been part of a CC meeting so i might have to be told what is expected of me or what you'd like to know
<pleia2> ochosi: oh! so we pretty much just say hello, make sure things are going well with Xubuntu, see if there are any problems we can help with or anything
<pleia2> we found that teams weren't coming to us with problems, so check in once a cycle gives them an opportunity to have our ear for a bit
 * pleia2 switchhat
<ochosi> heh, i see
<pleia2> as xubuntu community member, I've been really impressed with the work lately
 * micahg_work isn't here either
<pleia2> 15.04 was a great release (woo Xfce 4.12)
 * Unit193 high fives micahg_work.
<ochosi> right, so far things are running smoothly. the only not-smooth thing was elfy leaving xubuntu and the larger community, that was unexpected and fairly sad. and to be frank, i havent understood what was going on there (have to admit though that i also wanted to stay out of that kubuntu conflict so i didn't do too much reading)
<pleia2> yeah, obviously the CC feels the elfy-loss pain right with you :(
<ochosi> other than that i have the feeling we have a great team
 * pleia2 switchhat again
<pleia2> how is testing going without him?
<ochosi> well, we decided to do more exploratory, RL testing with 15.10 due to a lack of contribution in the QA area
 * pleia2 nods
<ochosi> so in this sense it's just that we have less people doing those tests and nobody coordinating them for the moment
<ochosi> i hope we'l have time to figure that out after 15.10
<pleia2> yeah :\
<pleia2> hope so!
<pleia2> anything else on your mind?
<pleia2> we're going to chat with the studio team in a moment, and I know there's some overlap because Xfce
<ochosi> not really, i mean we're always happy to gain more contributors, but that seems hard these days
<micahg_work> I think overall Xubuntu is doing well, there's more work happening in Debian and most of the Xubuntu devs have Debian Xfce VCS access
<ochosi> i read that you mentioned a lack of influx of new members and/or leaders, i would say that is true for xubuntu too
<pleia2> hopefully we'll get some tips from other community leadership summit folks this weekend to help that situation ubuntu-wide
<pleia2> micahg_work: that's wonderful to hear
<pleia2> ochosi: nods
<ochosi> i mean many of you know that here, but in xubuntu we've been pretty much the same team for 2 years or so
<ochosi> the upside is that we have a stable team, but the downside is that there is obviously little influx of fresh energy/womanpower
<pleia2> yeah, totally
<pleia2> and when people do need to leave, there's no replacement
<ochosi> and i would argue that partly this is due to xfce being a bit dormant, and partly due to developments like RL UDS not taking place anymore
 * pleia2 nods
<ochosi> i really feel you when you say you feel "disconnected" at times
 * ochosi hasn't been to FOSDEM or any other FOSS conferrence in more than two years
<pleia2> hah, yeah, I went to FOSDEM this year but none of my xubuntu friends did! ;)
<ochosi> yeah, it used to be *the* meeting place for xfce folks
 * micahg_work hasn't been to one for almost 3 :(
<pleia2> yeah
 * Unit193 has never been to one.
<ochosi> there's that downside of being spread across continents again...
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> ok, well looking at the clock I think we can migrate into chatting about ubuntu studio
<ochosi> well but to end this on a positive note: my general impression of the xubuntu community is really good, i don't see any troubles ahead
<pleia2> thanks for your feedback ochosi, this is super userful
<pleia2> yay :)
<micahg_work> I wonder if a virtual Xubuntu hangout (or FOSS equivalent) once in a while would help
<ochosi> no worries
<holstein> personally, i feel ubuntustudio's move to xfce was very timely.. and the xubuntu team has really helped keep it going.. with testing assistance.. etc
<ochosi> micahg_work: yeah, we once tried that and it was great, but there were some privacy concerns about putting those meetings online
<pleia2> #topic Ubuntu Studio catch up
<pleia2> hey holstein!
<pleia2> holstein: that's great to hear
<pleia2> holstein: studio is just doing LTS releases, right?
<holstein> nope
<holstein> though, i think that would be something worth discussing
<pleia2> oh, sorry :)
<pleia2> any place you see currently stuck or struggling with? (particularly that the CC might be able to help with?)
<holstein> well, the team is just quite small..
<holstein> zequence is really the only "code contributor", as far as i see
 * pleia2 nods
<holstein> i need to personally free up more time to contribute setting up meetings, etc. otherwise, we dont have meetings
<pleia2> meetings are deceptively hard to keep going
<holstein> and, we may not need to.. but, , AFAICT, the team lead position is handed off, and has been, for years, in private, to a person who gets burned out after a few cycles
<pleia2> I know how that goes :( so are you kind of functioning without a lead?
<holstein> zequence has been the lead, and doing a great job of it
<pleia2> oh good
<holstein> its great to see the xubuntu team, and the regularity.. the stable development
<pleia2> well, anything else before we wrap up?
 * pleia2 nods
<holstein> taking care of business!
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> thanks for joining us, holstein
<holstein> pleia2: cheers!
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
<pleia2> I think that's it, and I'm the last CC person here, so :)
<pleia2> thanks everyone, looking forward to CLS this weekend
<pleia2> #endmeeting
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-18
<rbasak> o/
<BenC> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<rbasak> sil2100: around? Do we have quorum?
 * rbasak wonders who is chairing.
<rbasak> micahg sends his apologies.
<BenC> That puts robie, if we go in order
<rbasak> OK, I'll chair. We still need quorum though :-/
<rbasak> Or, we can continue anyway, and leave the final vote for email.
<rbasak> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 18 19:10:27 2016 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
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<rbasak> cyphermox: Update Mate packages per Iain Laney's suggestions
<rbasak> I guess cyphermox isn't here?
<rbasak> everyone to review rbasak's question on devel-permissions and give feedback
<rbasak> I'll strike this item now I think. I presume all necessary feedback received. Which leads me to:
<rbasak> rbasak to make permission changes for new PPU packages for GunnarHj (blocked on previous)
<rbasak> This needs a TB member and I have emailed infinity. He's at a sprint this week (also sending his apologies) but I'll leave him the action.
<bdmurray> cyphermox: is on holiday
<rbasak> #action infinity to make permission changes for new PPU packages for GunnarHj (blocked on previous)
<meetingology> ACTION: infinity to make permission changes for new PPU packages for GunnarHj (blocked on previous)
<rbasak> Any other comments on previous action items?
<rbasak> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
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<rbasak> #subtopic Otto KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen
<rbasak> otto doesn't seem to be here :-/
<rbasak> I guess we'll have to defer.
<rbasak> #info Deferred, as Otto is not present.
<rbasak> IIRC, Jeremy's MOTU application has already been approved.
<rbasak> So that leaves
<rbasak> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
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<rbasak> That will be micah I guess?
<rbasak> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<BenC> Yeah, make sure to update so you get skipped after him
<BenC> The wiki, that is.
<rbasak> Good point, will do.
<rbasak> Anything else?
<rbasak> I guess we're done then.
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 18 19:17:41 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-18-19.10.moin.txt
<BenC> Thanks
<bdmurray> Thanks rbasak
<rbasak> Oh
<rbasak> I missed "Extend the ubuntu-mate package set to include mate-hud". But I think that's dealt with. I've uploaded mate-hud for flexiondotorg and +1'd the addition to the packageset (only one +1 needed) so I'll do it once it is accepted and seeded.
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-19
<xiaohongaiweno> hello
<coreycb> hey all
<coreycb> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 19 16:00:20 2016 UTC.  The chair is coreycb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<teward> o/
<powersj> o/
<coreycb> Just going to hang tight for a few minutes and let people show up
<jgrimm> o/
<rbasak> o/
<smb> o/
<nacc> o/
<coreycb> alright looks like we have a decent number of folks so let's get started
<rharper> o/
<coreycb> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<nacc> sorry, i'm bad and haven't updated the wiki; i think there was just hte one for jgrimm to review the qemu bug(s)
<coreycb> nacc, ok jgrimm do you have status on that?
 * jgrimm goes looking for the bug
<jgrimm> coreycb, ask me again during free discussion, i'll have looked up what the bug is by then
<coreycb> jgrimm, ok sounds good
<coreycb> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<coreycb> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<nacc> jgrimm: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1561019
<jgrimm> thanks nacc
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1561019 in libvirt (Ubuntu) "copied cpu flags don't match host cpu" [Medium,New]
<coreycb> Alpha 2 is in 9 days
<coreycb> And we're about a month away from Feature Freeze
<teward> nginx is probably going to get a merge for Yakkety, it'll include the dynamic modules that Debian adds.  Test packages are being built on my side now, then in a PPA, and a call for testing install/upgrade will go out
<coreycb> keep feature freeze in mind  as new features and new packages will need FFEs after that point
<teward> assuming I don't get another case of the lazies :)
<teward> that should land for Yakkety then before FeatureFreeze
<teward> ('tis all for me today)
<coreycb> thanks teward
<coreycb> anything else for yakkety development?
<jgrimm> otherwise, generally... merges and bugs have been making good forward progress
<coreycb> jgrimm, great
<coreycb> #subtopic Release Bugs
<coreycb> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<coreycb> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> coreycb, i'll jump in here with status on bug 1561019 action item
<ubottu> bug 1561019 in libvirt (Ubuntu) "copied cpu flags don't match host cpu" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1561019
<jgrimm> hallyn and smb seems to be making progress on that atm.  my action was to find someone to work on it.. so done. :)
<coreycb> jgrimm, :)
<smb> yeah... ugly
<smb> jgrimm, thought that was actually worked around
<jgrimm> smb, fair enough
<jgrimm> smb, my response was about action item i took last week, to make sure someone took a look at it.
<smb> jgrimm, guess at some point I'd have to check whether this was actually pused anywhere
<jgrimm> smb, ack!
<coreycb> as for other bugs, based on a quick scan, it looks like all the high importance bugs have someone from the server team who's been working on them or communicating at least
<coreycb> and some triage is needed for others
<coreycb> does anyone have anything else for bugs?
<coreycb> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<coreycb> hey caribou
<jgrimm> coreycb, unable to attend today
<rbasak> caribou sends his apologies
<coreycb> apology accepted
<coreycb> :)
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
<jgrimm> powersj, ^^
<powersj> Working with IS to get Jenkins updated to latest LTS version due to a known Jenkins defect, cpaelzer and I are meeting re: 390, and pinged IS on getting torkoal (baremetal system) added and up to Jenkins.
<powersj> Turning focus back to Jenkins CI and integration jobs for cloud-init while waiting on Jenkins fix and slave additions.
<coreycb> powersj, thanks for the update.  any questions for powersj?
<coreycb> alrighty, on we go
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> No news, sorry (at least no bad news).
<coreycb> smb, ok thanks
<coreycb> smb, same story for the other kernel folks?
<smb> likely
<arges> yup
<coreycb> alright thanks guys
<coreycb> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<coreycb> jumped the gun. any questions for kernel folks?
<rharper> well, not now
<rharper> =)
<coreycb> lol
<jgrimm> all good
<coreycb> any conferences coming up that have a call for papers?
<coreycb> I know openstack summit deadline was last week
<coreycb> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<coreycb> any events coming up?
<rharper> http://containersummit.io/city-series/2016/austin
<rharper> tonight
<rharper> if you're in Austin
<coreycb> rharper, nice, and look at that mug shot!
<rharper> lol
<coreycb> rharper, what's your talk on?
<rharper> fire-side chatting about containers and lxd
<coreycb> rharper, awesome
<coreycb> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<coreycb> jgrimm, did you want to discuss that libvirt bug?
<coreycb> or was it qemu bugs
<jgrimm> coreycb, we already covered it during release bugs
<jgrimm> alll good
<coreycb> jgrimm, ah, that was it.  good so no actions to carry over as far as I can tell.
<jgrimm> agreed!
<coreycb> jgrimm, I still owe you a reply on your email about subscriptions to openstack packages
<coreycb> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<coreycb> the next meeting will be the same time next week
<jgrimm> coreycb: james took care of it
<coreycb> jgrimm, oh, great, thanks jamespage!
<coreycb> gaughen is up next week to chair
<jgrimm> coreycb, indeed.. i owe him (yet another) beer for his kindly assistance. :)
<gaughen> coreycb, I will be at the sprint
<coreycb> gaughen, ok
<coreycb> next in line is arosales, smoser, rbasak.  any of you not at the sprint next week?
<jgrimm> smoser or rbasak should be around
<coreycb> jgrimm, alright, it'll be one of them
<coreycb> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
<rbasak> o/
<coreycb> o/
<rbasak> I've been doing some catching up
<rbasak> I've mainly been focusing on unblocking existing assignments right now.
<rbasak> cpaelzer isn't here, but AFAICT he's mainly blocked on me reviewing his ntp and dovecot merges, so I'll get on with those ASAP.
<arosales> coreycb: I am at sprint next weeek
<rbasak> (I sponsored a ton of uploads today, more tomorrow)
<arosales> rbasak: or smoser could I trade with you?
<rbasak> jgrimm and rharper, I think you should be unblocked?
<jgrimm> rbasak, i am! thank you
<coreycb> arosales, yep it's going to be one of them. I'll nag them.
<rharper> rbasak: yes, just need to work the bugs you've assigned
<rbasak> nacc, your only assignment right now is the bacula thing according to my sheet. I think I'm waiting on you to tell me when you're ready for upload. Is that right?
<arosales> coreycb: smoser rbasak thanks :-)
<nacc> rbasak: yep, i think we're pretty close
<nacc> rbasak: i need to verify the yakkety changes are good again (some stuff got sent to debian)
<rbasak> magicalChicken: around? I've been catching up on your bugs, I think some probably need unassigning perhaps.
<nacc> rbasak: did you get a chance to look at hte puppet bug?
<rbasak> nacc: OK, I'll wait for you, thanks.
<nacc> rbasak: LP: #1570472
<magicalChicken> rbasak: Yeah
<rbasak> nacc: not in detail, sorry I didn't reply to the puppet bug yet. I'm reluctant though. I don't understand why we can't invert the logic using existing functionality.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1570472 in puppet (Ubuntu) "Set systemd as default service provider" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570472
<rbasak> magicalChicken: where are we with bug 1394403 right now please?
<ubottu> bug 1394403 in apache2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "RewriteRule of "^$" is broken" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1394403
<nacc> rbasak: oh we could; but upstream has already taken that change; it won't affect the SRU -- and upstream may chagne the logic altogether (they're working on adding a new extension that may allow for calling arbitrary conditional functions
<magicalChicken> rbasak: Still unable to reproduce with the first patch that went in
<nacc> rbasak: but if we change first, then we're diverging from upstream's change, which seems less than ideal
<nacc> rbasak: i agree with you for 16.10
<nacc> rbasak: i disagree with you for 16.04 :)
<nacc> rbasak: if that makes sense :)
<magicalChicken> rbasak: I did LP: #1534538, but I need to redo it because a security update went into repos first
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1534538 in apache2 (Ubuntu Trusty) " AliasMatch directive does not accept long URI" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1534538
<rbasak> nacc: right, but we need to fix 16.10 first for the SRU. And I don't want to upload a change I know will be broken in three months.
<nacc> rbasak: ok, i'll work on upstream then
<rbasak> nacc: I'd be happy for us to fix Yakkety with a temporary delta that we know is right, even if that isn't upstream.
<rbasak> nacc: unless that's particularly awkward? Then that would unblock the SRU.
<nacc> rbasak: right, i was thinking the opposite direction, but the same result
<rbasak> nacc: otherwise we're defeating the object of fixing development rist.
<rbasak> first
<nacc> rbasak: in that, yakkety gets the current fix, and then i fix upstream and yakkety
<nacc> rbasak: fix the fix, i guess
<nacc> rbasak: either way, one delays the sru more :)
<nacc> rbasak: and takes more of my time :-P
<rbasak> I'm not sure I follow.
<nacc> rbasak: i have to learn ruby :)
<rbasak> What I'm asking for is to fix Yakkety and then to fix Xenial. The Xenial fix can be minimal.
<nacc> well, enough ruby :)
<rbasak> I'm sayingi that the Yakkety fix must not be known broken, but it can be a delta.
<rbasak> Is that OK?
<rbasak> If upstream are planning a big picture fix, then the Yakkety delta can also be minimal I think.
<rbasak> As long as it's not autombroken.
<nacc> rbasak: well, given that i'm the one who will probably have to fix upstream; that's what i was trying to say. I will work on fixing upstream and yakkety. But the fix we have now, which is minimal, works for both, right now. The future fix will just be future-proof (which doesn't matter for the current releases). But I will just work on it instead of yammering furhter
<rbasak> magicalChicken: for 4403, it's not clear to me that you can't reproduce from reading the bug.
<rbasak> magicalChicken: am I missing something, or else could you please update the bug?
<magicalChicken> rbasak: Sure, I'll redo the verification and post logs
<magicalChicken> I had been able to reproduce before the first patch I submitted, but after that patch the duplicate rewrite message isn't present in apache's log
<rbasak> magicalChicken: sorry, I don't follow. What do we need to do to resolve the bug?
<rbasak> Are we stuck because unreproducible?
<magicalChicken> rbasak: Yes. I had submitted a patch earlier that fixed it for me, but the user said that it did not fix it for them
<rbasak> magicalChicken: but the user has since provided a reproducer, right?
<magicalChicken> rbasak: I posted logs of me running the test case they provided with the patch in place, and the bug doesn't show up in them
<magicalChicken> rbasak: I haven't heard from the user since then
<rbasak> Sorry, I know I'm confused here.
<rbasak> Ah, OK.
<rbasak> I think I follow. I didn't read your comment as there being a problem.
<magicalChicken> rbasak: Right yeah, I need to rewrite that to clarify
<rbasak> OK, thanks.
<magicalChicken> I'll go ahead and try to reproduce 1 more time too
<rbasak> I saw the security team trump your progress in 538.
<rbasak> Can I leave that to you to redo, please?
<magicalChicken> rbasak: Sure, it shouldn't take long, it was a simple patch
<rbasak> OK, thanks!
<rbasak> magicalChicken: next, in bug 1511222, it looks like the reporter hasn't replied.
<ubottu> bug 1511222 in apache2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "Incorrect trusted proxy match test in mod_remoteip" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511222
<rbasak> magicalChicken: would you prefer to drive it anyway and SRU verify yourself, or drop it?
<rbasak> It looks like only one person has reported affected since October.
<rbasak> So I don't mind which you prefer - depends on your confidence in the fix and your view on the impact of the bug on other users.
<magicalChicken> rbasak: I had tested out the patch and it worked okay for me. I can go ahead and rerun that test and post the logs. I don't think the user is going to reply
<rbasak> magicalChicken: OK, so would you like to continue with landing the fix, or forget about it until someone replies?
<magicalChicken> rbasak: It might be good to wait for someone to reply, since I may have been wrong about a patch working on the RewriteRule bug earlier
<magicalChicken> rbasak: If anyone else reports they're affected, I can ask them to test out the patched version and see if it fixes it for them
<rbasak> OK, that's fine. Please could you note this in a comment on the bug, and then I'll treat it as unassigned? If you could stay subscribed in case the user does reply, that would be helpful.
<magicalChicken> Sure, thanks
<magicalChicken> Yeah, I'll pick it up again if anyone replies to it
<rbasak> magicalChicken: OK great! Next, bug 1296835 needs SRU verification. Are you planning on doing that, or is the bug stalled because you're waiting on a reporter to do it?
<ubottu> bug 1296835 in pptpd (Ubuntu Trusty) "status_of_proc lacks a "-p" in /etc/init.d/pptpd" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296835
<magicalChicken> rbasak: I can go ahead and do the verifiction for that
<rbasak> OK great. Thanks!
<magicalChicken> rbasak: Thanks
<rbasak> Almost there :)
<magicalChicken> haha
<rbasak> Just one more - any progress on the logwatch bugs please?
<rbasak> I realise this is quite a few bugs you have on at once, so no worries if not. Just trying to update my spreadsheet :)
<magicalChicken> I hadn't been aware of a logwatch bug
<magicalChicken> I can handle that this week, it just had slipped my mind, sorry
<rbasak> No worries. It's a whole collection of bugs - various messages. Looks like mostly regexp updates needed, each small individually.
<magicalChicken> rbasak: Cool, shouldn't be too hard to get fixed then
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/logwatch is the list - I mean the "unmatched" and "not being reported" type bugs.
<rbasak> Great. Thank you!
<magicalChicken> Thanks
<rbasak> magicalChicken: and thank you for your patience. I'm focusing on getting rid of the bugs from my spreadsheet - it's fine if they aren't making progress because of reporter silence - as long as we communicate what they need to do, I'm happy to drop them from my tracking. As long as I can forget about them :)
<magicalChicken> rbasak: No problem, I'll stay subscribed to the ones we're waiting on so that I can pick them up again when the reporter replies
<rbasak> I'm done for today, thanks all. I think everyone has something to get on with, possibly with the exception of cpaelzer until I unblock him.
<rbasak> I intend to triage more this week and get a backlog of assignments again.
<rbasak> Any other comments or questions?
<nacc> rbasak: feel free to put more on my plate again, i'm mostly caught up now that you've sponsored stuff
<rbasak> nacc: thanks. And thank you for all the uploads! I need to do that endorsement :)
<rbasak> coreycb: #endmeeting please
<coreycb> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 19 16:58:42 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-19-16.00.moin.txt
<coreycb> thanks all
<nacc> rbasak: i'm trying to figure out the ftbfs you found; as it works on amd64; and it's not clear why my chnage owuld have broken anything
<rbasak> nacc: looking at the build failure, I suspect it's a latent bug in debian/rules trigerred by building using a Yakkety dpkg-buildpackage or something.
<nacc> rbasak: yep, that sems likely, i'm digging into it
<nacc> thanks!
<rbasak> nacc: IIRC, it said something about build-arch not existing? Debian policy probably requires that.
<rbasak> nacc: sorry I didn't dig further - I was trying to get through as much of the sponsorship queue as possible.
<nacc> rbasak: eyp, i think so -- and np, of course!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-20
<Kilos> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-07-21
 * slangasek waves
<robru> o/
<pitti> goedendag!
<caribou> \o
<pitti> slangasek: can I go first/early today? I'm currently in a train station, travelling back from the sprint; but I need to leave in ~ 10 min
<slangasek> "A goedendag (also rendered godendac, godendard, godendart, and sometimes conflated with the related planÃ§on) was a weapon originally used by the militias of Medieval Flanders in the 14th century, notably during the Franco-Flemish War."
<slangasek> pitti: ack
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 21 15:02:05 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pitti> slangasek: uh, that was sarcasm at the extreme, I'd say :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> robru slangasek barry bdmurray tdaitx xnox chiluk doko mwhudson caribou sil2100 cyphermox pitti infinity
<slangasek> ... but pitti goes first
<pitti> Mon-Wed: mini-sprint with seb128, Laney, and tedg for converting session startup from session bus/upstart to user bus/systemd; good progress, some bugs/holes found (no surprise), see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/convergence-y-replace-upstart for current status
<robru> yay
<pitti> lxd: debug failure on mounting the root fs (#1602192)
<pitti> debug and propose a fix for networking restart/ssh deadlock (#1584393)
<pitti> (done)
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * verbose britney logs for debugging purposes
<robru> * status job is 99% done, unit tests are done, just a few rough edges to sort out and more testing needed
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru> * check dest archive first for supported arches before falling back on main_archive.
<robru> (done)
<slangasek>  * prepped for this week's snappy sprint
<slangasek>  * ubuntu-image: we have an image that can boot to grub under UEFI; more refinement needed
<slangasek>  * working through bug reports around the secureboot policy change in latest kernel SRUs (LP: #1604873 et al)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1604873 in shim-signed (Ubuntu Xenial) "MokSBStateRT strictly inferior to /proc/sys/kernel/moksbstate_disabled" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1604873
<slangasek>  * mid-cycle planning
<slangasek>  * some work on un-sticking transitions in proposed-migration; haskell almost got there, then got wedged on an unreproducible (on porter box) armhf build failure halfway up the stack
<slangasek>  * travel swap day tomorrow; mid-cycle next week in .nl
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> barry:
<barry> all ubuntu-image all the time
<barry> --done--
<bdmurray> research into how hwe support works in update-manager
<bdmurray> forward port of hwe support to Trusty, Yakkety
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader bug triage
<bdmurray> tested LP: #1603436 (python2.7 Xenial regression-update bug)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1603436 in python2.7 (Ubuntu Yakkety) "Regression in python2.7 SRU breaks python-cassandra" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1603436
<bdmurray> â done
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK security update
<tdaitx> - Packaged, tested, and released OpenJDK 8 package for the security team for Xenial and Wily; a Yakkety package is also available
<tdaitx> - Backporting security patches for OpenJDK 7 ongoing
<tdaitx> = Merges
<tdaitx> - isc-dhcp onhold while I worked on the security update
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx> - Will be away today afternoon and tomorrow the whole day (finally moving to a new place)
<tdaitx> - There's a good chance I will be working from a shared office or similar next week while I wait for an ISP technician to check service 'availability
<tdaitx> (done)
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> * 16.04.1 iso testing, ubiquity, SRU finalisation
<xnox> * zua - fixing apparmor/libvirt/qemu integration
<xnox> * opencryptoki upgrade for s390x
<xnox> * mdadm with raid fixes in debian (to fix fallout bugs & to merge into ubuntu)
<xnox> * mdadm isms is outstanding
<xnox> * btrfs upload pending
<xnox> ..
<slangasek> chiluk: ?
<bdmurray> xnox: have you seen bug 1599428?
<ubottu> bug 1599428 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "checkarray doesn't work" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1599428
<xnox> bdmurray, yes. among others... failure to boot currently higher on my list.
<bdmurray> xnox: okay, that sounds important. ;-)
<slangasek> doko: are you back today, or not until tomorrow?
<doko> first day back in Berlin (good timing, all SRU regressions already fixed ;p), catching up on email
<doko> so, nothing more
<slangasek> ok :)
<slangasek> caribou:
<caribou>  Bugfix:
<caribou>   dpkg status file corrupt
<caribou>   - Investigating landscape LDS
<caribou> Launchpad & Public
<caribou>   Multiple makedumpfile bugfix
<caribou>   LP: #1570093 - multipath-tools sponsor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1570093 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Xenial) "multipath-tools update introduced syslog messages about partx" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570093
<caribou> Meetings
<caribou>  Paid Timeout
<caribou> & I'm off for the next three weeks on vacation as of friday
<caribou>  â Done
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - OTA-12:
<sil2100>   * Sanity-checking all rc image contents
<sil2100>   * Announcing and discussing the additional delay requested by the manufacturer
<sil2100> - Touch xenial:
<slangasek> Paid Timeout?
<sil2100>   * Noticed additional missing packages in arm64 xenial builds
<sil2100>   * Wrote a separate script checking for unbuilt binaries for arm64
<sil2100>   * Prepared, tested and landed silo with multiple packages rebuilt for arm64
<sil2100>   * Investigating further build failures in the rootfs
<sil2100> - Discussing OTA-13 release dates
<sil2100> - Looking into the KPI instrumentation PPA implementation
<caribou> slangasek: PTO or whatever you wan to call it
<sil2100> - Prepping a bileto pre hook for address-book-app to unblock it from yakkety
<sil2100> - Adding missing devices to commitlog generation
<sil2100> - Looking into the goget-ubuntu-touch new landing
<sil2100> - Helping Timo in reviewing some code and proposals for moving SDK off the seeds
<slangasek> ah :)
<sil2100> - SRUing the xorg-server arm64-enablement bits we published to xenial-overlay
<sil2100> - Backporting recent per-device-redirect changes to the s-i testability branch
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> cyphermox is out
<slangasek> pitti has already gone
<slangasek> infinity is at the snappy sprint this week
<slangasek> <infinity> snappy sprint, arm64 ISO, self-loathing, illness, snappy sprint, 16.04.1 release.
<slangasek> ^^ summary :)
<slangasek> any questons?
<xnox> and 16.04.01 is out 20 minutes ago =)
<slangasek> yes but the website is not updated yet
<barry> infinity's reports are so uplifting
<slangasek> The underrated sequel to the Hunter S. Thompson classic, "snappy and self-loathing in Heidelberg"
<barry> :D
<slangasek> seeing no questions...
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else for today?
<slangasek> feature freeze coming up, everybody feeling good about yakkety?
<barry> pretty good from the python side
<slangasek> gcc6 test rebuild looks only moderately awful compared to the baseline
<slangasek> a bunch of build failures still because of debhelper compat 4 being declared obsolete
<slangasek> hopefully we'll pick up fixes for most of those from Debian (especially for main); please stay on top of merges to make sure we pick up any fixes
<slangasek> [LINK] http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20160701-yakkety.html
<xnox> #webops working on the website deployment
<barry> i'll take a look at the relevant main failures (we need a new dh-python in debian to fix the zope.interface one)
<chiluk> sorry slangasek.. nothing from me ... I've been distracted with maas 2.0 cases lately, so nothing you guys care about.
<slangasek> chiluk: ok :)
<slangasek> sounds like that covers us then for this week
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> volunteer to run the meeting next week, since I'll be sprinting?
<slangasek> xnox: thanks for volunteering!
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 21 15:24:58 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-21-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks :)
<caribou> thanks slangasek & see you in August
<xnox> slangasek, &> pitti
<tdaitx> thanks all!
<barry> thanks!
<pitti> slangasek: ugh, FF already? time flies :)
<pitti> slangasek: FYI, I got a name for the network YAML thing and approved config paths, so this is unblocked
<belkinsa> #startmeeting Community Council Check-In
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 21 16:59:52 2016 UTC.  The chair is belkinsa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Check-In Meeting | Current topic:
<belkinsa> Who is all for the meeting today?
<belkinsa> #chair czajkowski
<meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa czajkowski
<czajkowski> aloha
<belkinsa> Let's wait five minutes for the rest to come.
<czajkowski> nods
<belkinsa> We need members from the Desktop and the Developer Membership Board teams.
<sil2100> I'm here o/ (from the DMB)
<belkinsa> sil2100: thank you for coming.
<czajkowski> sil2100: thanks
<sil2100> But I think we were supposed to be here officially in 30 minutes
<belkinsa> sil2100: that is true, but if none from the Desktop team come, we may have to start with you.
<belkinsa> Agenda:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<sil2100> Should I try pinging the rest of the DMB?
<belkinsa> Yes, please.
<tsimonq2> Community Council, could we please get a date for the next Lubuntu check-in?
<czajkowski> tsimonq2: it's not on the list will get it amended after the meeting
<tsimonq2> thank you czajkowski :)
<belkinsa> czajkowski: I pinged the desktop team in their channel.
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> sil2100: any more DMB folks?
<sil2100> Poked them on #ubuntu-devel, but it seems everyone was waiting for 17:30 UTC
 * micahg is here
<rbasak> o/
<czajkowski> #topic DMB check in
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Check-In Meeting | Current topic: DMB check in
<czajkowski> great :)
<belkinsa> Are you both of Desktop team?
<rbasak> DMB.
<sil2100> micahg, rbasak: thanks for popping up!
<belkinsa> Okay, perfect.
<czajkowski> thanks for coming folks
<belkinsa> And thank you, czajkowski.
<czajkowski> so micahg rbasak sil2100 how are things in the land of DMB ?
<czajkowski> care to catch us up
<rbasak> So I'm new on the DMB, still learning the ropes.
<micahg> we've actually had a nice stream of applicants recently
<micahg> not a full agenda, but usually we have at least 1
<rbasak> I feel that we're a little slow in getting stuff done for people after approvals, partly because most of us are learning the ropes, and partly because some approvals need a TB member to make them actually happen, and we have only one (very busy) overlapping person.
<rbasak> I'd like to do that better, but I think we will as we get the hang of things.
 * belkinsa nods
<sil2100> I guess it happens for those more complicated applications
<czajkowski> rbasak: do you guys discuss before hand or wait till the meeting, is thre a channel for you to discuss items ?
<sil2100> Since we did have a few core-dev applications that just went through smoothly, with all permissions given on the same day
<rbasak> Yes, the straightforward ones are pretty quick.
<rbasak> On another note, I feel that we barely made quorum on almost every meeting.
<czajkowski> rbasak: is there a way to move things to email as I know it's hard to get everyone online at one time
<belkinsa> Is it because we all have lives or is there another problem?
<sil2100> I apologize for this week, I actually joined the DMB meeting place a few minutes before it starting but then got preempted by life
<rbasak> czajkowski: we have a private channel, but don't use it much.
<czajkowski> I know online meetings like this are useful but you can see even now it's hard to get all the CC online
<czajkowski> sil2100: life is very complicated at times ;)
<belkinsa> Indeed, we only have two of us here at the meeting.
<sil2100> I guess ;)
<rbasak> czajkowski: we can defer to the ML, yes. I don't think we've had to do that yet. We would have had to at the last meeting had the applicant also not forgotten to show :)
<czajkowski> rbasak: so we in the CC have a channel we idle in and that has really helped over the last few years to get togeter catch up and leave feedback
<czajkowski> mayeb to encouraage folks to become more idle on there?
<belkinsa> +1 on the idle idea
 * rbasak idles in there already
<micahg> well, I still need to process the doodle poll results for meeting times, that should help with quorum
<czajkowski> rbasak: yes that can be hard, we do try and reach out adn send reminders, but again life kicks in, do you email out before hand to remind people
<rbasak> It's much easier for me though, since I'm full time paid by Canonical to be on IRC basically.
<sil2100> rbasak: what's the channel name? I'm a newbie and probably missed the channel name somewhere
<rbasak> sil2100: #ubuntu-dmb
<czajkowski> what has helped the CC this last few months is having our meetings in a google calendar we can subscribe to and get notifications
<sil2100> rbasak: could you invite me? It seems invite-only ;)
<sil2100> rbasak: thanks!
<belkinsa> micahg: Are you, as a team, working on getting a better time/date to reach the quotem?
<micahg> yes
<rbasak> sil2100: I need to figure out how to do that :)
<belkinsa> micahg: I see.
<micahg> rbasak: I'll take care of it
<rbasak> Thanks!
<czajkowski> Is there anything the CC can do to help or improve with ?
<sil2100> czajkowski: we also have a calendar with all the meetings scheduled, and it does seem to help to some extent
<rbasak> sil2100: we do? :)
 * rbasak has his own calendar entries
<belkinsa> You can have one that can send out reminders to the Mailing-list when there is a meeting.  Like I did for this one.
<sil2100> rbasak: yes! I thought I added you there, hmm
<sil2100> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/fridge/
<sil2100> rbasak: yeah, looks like you're added there, at least your @ubuntu.com account
<sil2100> I proceeded as per the fridge instructions, might have messed up something but so far it worked fine for me ;p
<rbasak> sil2100: maybe it needs to be my @canonical.com account, as that's what Google thinks I am. But don't worry about it - I have my own entries that seem to work. We can figure out something if/when we change our times.
<czajkowski> so in general things are going well with the DMB ?
<rbasak> Is there anything the CC can do to help or improve with> I can't think of anything, thanks. Unless someone else can?
<czajkowski> my only thinking would be if you could or maybe you do and I am not seeing it annouce new members?
<rbasak> czajkowski: I'd say so. I'd like to do better in terms of delays for some applicants after approval, but I think we're on an improving trend
<czajkowski> do you?
<rbasak> It's in our post-meeting chair checklist. I'm not sure how well it is actually getting performed (we have a rotating chair).
<rbasak> Perhaps we should add it as a specific meeting action.
<czajkowski> rbasak: it would be great to see it posting to the fridge or even on planet.u.c so the ubuntu newsletter could get an update - I know pleia2 is always looking for new content
<czajkowski> I think that would raise the profile of the DMB and applications
<micahg> yeah, I'm notorious for forgetting to do that :(
<rbasak> czajkowski: agreed. We should do something to make sure this happens.
<belkinsa> Maybe use Trello?
<rbasak> We're quite good at carrying forward meeting actions, and nominating a DMB member to handle an applicant approval, so what if we wrote up a "new approved applicant checklist" and created an actual meeting action to complete that checklist?
<rbasak> Trello works too if everyone is happy with that.
<czajkowski> rbasak: fantastic :)
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> I think that would be great for all to see new applications and community activity.
<belkinsa> rbasak: that also works.
<sil2100> Yeah, I was wondering recently what happened to that
<rbasak> I'll add an item to the agenda of the next meeting to decide what we want to do to solve this.
<sil2100> Since I remember new members being announced in the past
<rbasak> (done)
<sil2100> rbasak: thanks!
<czajkowski> Thank you :)
<czajkowski> is there anything else we can help with ?
<rbasak> I guess not.
<rbasak> Thank you for your time! I think it was useful to catch up with you. I appreciate it must take a while to get round every team.
<belkinsa> And thank you for coming.
<sil2100> How often do such catch-ups happen for a selected team?
<belkinsa> I think once or twice a cycle.
<sil2100> Ok, was just curious, thanks :)
<sil2100> And thank you for your time!
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<czajkowski> once a cycle
<czajkowski> #topic Desktop
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Check-In Meeting | Current topic: Desktop
<czajkowski> anyone here from the Desktop team ?
<belkinsa> If not, we can reschedule the meeting.  Can't we?
<belkinsa> #chair mhall119
<meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa czajkowski mhall119
<czajkowski> sure
<mhall119> will's not online, I pinged seb128 but no reply yet
<belkinsa> Alright, I already added it to here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<czajkowski> belkinsa: need to add lubuntu also
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 21 17:35:52 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-21-16.59.moin.txt
<czajkowski> thanks folks
<belkinsa> Thanks everyone for coming.
<belkinsa> czajkowski: Lubuntu is already added.
<belkinsa> czajkowski: check-mate :D
<sil2100> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-18
 * rharper finds the irc page
<cpaelzer> o/
<ahasenack> o/
<slashd> o/
<rharper> o/
<cpaelzer> oh I just realize that I updated the log, but missed the agenda update
<rharper> and the new meeting date
<cpaelzer> dpb's action of last week is done, all others carried
<rharper> but it's really annoying that it's in 5 places
<cpaelzer> yes
<cpaelzer> I get all 1/5 times so do most others
<rharper> hehe
 * rharper waits just a bit more after summoning some folks
<smb> o/
<powersj> o/
<rharper> ok
<rharper> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 18 16:02:05 2017 UTC.  The chair is rharper. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rharper> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rharper> previous agenda looks the same, nacc's out this week, so I'll just carry those
<rharper> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<cpaelzer> yes
<rharper> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<cpaelzer> and yours likely as well?
<rharper> rbasak is not here as well, so carry
<rharper> well
<rharper> I *did* do one of them
<cpaelzer> yay++
<rharper> so, gonna mark that complete
<cpaelzer> rbasak was around
<cpaelzer> let's ping him "at home"
<rharper> k
<rharper> I'll carry it and then mark it done if the answer differs
<rharper> #action rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<rharper> #done rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<rharper> on the serverguide, there wasn't much of a section on cloud-init so wasn't sure what to do about that
<rharper> so I'll carry for now
<rharper> #action rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<rharper> ok
<rharper> rbasak: I marked your previous task as carry-over, is that accurate ?
<rharper> I'll assume so and you can correct me later if needed
<rharper> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<rharper> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> rharper: that's correct, thanks.
<rharper> rbasak: great!
<smoser> o/
<rharper> #subtopic blueprints
<rharper> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<rharper> any update to current work that needs discussion ?
<cpaelzer> actually the blueprints are replaced by the non daiyl board
<cpaelzer> let me fetch the link
<ahasenack> I think just the meeting subtopic is named incorrectly
<ahasenack> the link looks correct
<cpaelzer> https://trello.com/b/8bC9VQMk/server-backlog
<rharper> I have the link, but the subtopic is from the paste
<rharper> lemme put the bp link and then switch subtopics
<cpaelzer> well we have the short and the longterm one - I think it is fair to link up both from the meeting
<rharper> #subtopic Current Work
<cpaelzer> to give the full view
<rharper> the backlog one ?
<rharper> #link https://trello.com/b/8bC9VQMk/server-backlog
<rharper> we have both, and can fix up the actions
<cpaelzer> the old blueprint split into daily and backlog - which together are a superset of the old
<rharper> #action rharper to update irc cut-n-paste links to point to trello pages
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to update irc cut-n-paste links to point to trello pages
<rharper> ok, any backlog discussion needed ?
<rharper> #subtopic Release Bugs
<cpaelzer> no changes incoming atm afaik
<cpaelzer> (on the backlog)
<rharper> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rharper> cpaelzer: thanks
<rharper> anything hot here ?
<cpaelzer> one general question
<cpaelzer> slashd: who is now Mr. sosreport?
<cpaelzer> it seems you on one of the bugs found in the link above - is that the case?
<slashd> cpaelzer, well I'm taking care of it, and have monthly meeting with stokachu
<cpaelzer> ok, thanks
<cpaelzer> didn't know that stokachu is intertwinded with sosreport
<cpaelzer> on the django bug - that is in proposed - nacc can share more next week when he is available
<rharper> ok
<cpaelzer> maybe it even migrated until then
<slashd> cpaelzer, he is upstream/ubuntu, sosreport is crucial for us, so I decide to take the lead on this for our team
<cpaelzer> ok, good to know
<slashd> and work with him on this to merge package in a regular basis when needed to fix bug
<rharper> #info stokachu is upstream/ubuntu for sosreport package
<rharper> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<slashd> Business as usual for us, here's the SRUs we are currently working on : https://pastebin.canonical.com/193745/ , other than that I have nothing special to report this week.
<rharper> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<slashd> #info SRU pending for : percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5 percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6, open-iscsi, ksh, cups, nfs-utils, rsyslog
<rharper> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ahasenack> hm, rsyslog
<ahasenack> slashd: what is the rsyslog sru?
<ahasenack> time jumps
<ahasenack> ok, see it
<ahasenack> I might have another sru for it soon
<ahasenack> but can wait
<rharper> bug #1429427
<ubottu> bug 1429427 in rsyslog (Ubuntu Trusty) "Unexplainable time jumps in CRON" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1429427
<cpaelzer> fyi from me also a nut SRU might be coming soon
<cpaelzer> but I thought "soon" since quite a while, so I don't know how soon
<slashd> ahasenack, only for trusty, so it won't block you for other releases
<rharper> #info #1429427 - (rsyslog) Unexplainable time jumps in CRON , Series to SRU : trusty, Owners : Seyeong Kim
<cpaelzer> I want Debian to move before us so we can keep a sync
<slashd> I can ping you when Trusty SRU is done if you want
<rharper> #info #1590799 - (nfs-utils) nfs-kernel-server does not start because of dependency failure,  Series to SRU : yakkety, Verification : verification-done-xenial verification-needed, Owners : Rafael David Tinoco
<ahasenack> slashd: ok
<ahasenack> mine is...
<rharper> #info #1657256 - (percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5 percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6) Percona crashes when doing a a 'larger' update , Series to SRU : xenial zesty trusty yakkety, Owners : Mario Splivalo
<ahasenack> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rsyslog/+bug/1675515
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1531622 in rsyslog (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1675515 default config still using a legacy keyword: KLogPermitNonKernelFacility" [Medium,Fix released]
<ahasenack> which leads to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rsyslog/+bug/1703987
<rharper> #info #1668639 - (rsyslog) Add a trigger to reload rsyslog when a new configuration file is dropped in /etc/rsyslog.d, Series to SRU : xenial zesty artful trusty yakkety, Owners : Frode Nordahl
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1703987 in rsyslog (Ubuntu) "New style permitnonkernelfacility imklog option inside module() doesn't work" [Low,Triaged]
<ahasenack> as just changing the config doesn't fix it (upstream bug)
<rharper> #info #1684039 - (open-iscsi) iBFT network configuration does not correctly populate PROTO=dhcp in /run/net-*.conf which breaks cloud-init, Series to SRU : xenial artful zesty, Owners : Trent Lloyd
<rharper> #info #1695876 - (cups) German Documentation file displays incorrect CUPS version, Series to SRU : xenial, Owners : Ivy Alexander
<rharper> #info #1697501 - (ksh) ksh segfault on  job_chksave () after it receive a SIGCHLD (Signal 17) , Series to SRU : xenial zesty yakkety, Verification : verification-done-trusty verification-done-xenial verification-done-yakkety verification-done-zesty, Owners : Eric Desrochers
<rharper> ok, link dereferenced for logs and emailing
<rharper> ok, moving forward
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<rharper> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> Last week lots of time spent on the KVM backend for cloud-init testing. This week more of the same.
<powersj> questions?
<rharper> \o/
<rharper> when/where can I try it ?
<rharper> branch, jenkins job?
<powersj> https://code.launchpad.net/~powersj/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+ref/cii-kvm
<powersj> there is the branch ^
<cpaelzer> powersj: x86 only for now?
<powersj> cpaelzer: yes
<cpaelzer> how much more lockup when virt tests run?
<cpaelzer> so how much workload in hours?
<powersj> heh not sure yet, I have the backend working, but I need to spend time on test cases to utilize the new features
<rharper> #link https://code.launchpad.net/~powersj/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+ref/cii-kvm
<cpaelzer> sure
<rharper> #info cloud-init integration testing with KVM backend in progress
<rharper> powersj: did the curtin vmtests run last night ?
 * rharper hasn't looked
<powersj> rharper: ah yes all passed, except daily-t due to bcache
<rharper> my manual run on our developement system passed all tests
<teward> (i'm late again sorry)
<rharper> powersj: ok, good; that's more normal
<rharper> I think the bcache on trusty might be the TOCTOU bug I filed
<rharper> typically happens under load only
<rharper> bug #1700564
<ubottu> bug 1700564 in curtin "under heavy IO encounter TOCTOU bug with bcache removal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700564
<rharper> any other questions for powersj ?
<rharper> previous week there was some discussion on seed changes?
<rharper> cpaelzer: powersj any update here ?
<powersj> ah I misspoke, wasn't seed change
<rharper> ah
<rharper> ok
<powersj> sounded as if a dependency change pulled more things in, no update though
<cpaelzer> seed changes were about virt- tasks
<cpaelzer> they are done, waiting on aa to remove some packages, that is all
<rharper> ok
<cpaelzer> that is https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1540323
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1540323 in ubuntu-virt (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-virt is not generated from seeds" [Undecided,Triaged]
<rharper> #info seed changes are done, waiting on an AA to remove some packages
<rharper> cpaelzer: thanks
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Or was that about nplan and libnss-resolve not being pulled in by the same meta? That is in kind of works
<smb> or systemd-netword has to be fixed to work without libnss-resolve
<smb> Anyhow for kernel. Been distracted with other things, so only can say artful kernel is 4.11 now and intention for release is to be 4.13... Any questions?
<rharper> smb: mmm, systemd fun
<smb> a source of much fun... :-P
<rharper> "fun"
<rharper> yes, I need more of that
<rharper> smb: was there a bug for the libnss-resolve/systemd-networkd/nplan path ?
<smb> yes
<smb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1703640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1703640 in systemd (Ubuntu) "nplan and libnss-resolve should be in same dependency" [Medium,Triaged]
<rharper> excellent, thanks
<rharper> any other questions for smb ?
<rharper> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<rharper> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<rharper> any paper submissions or new venues to discuss ?
<rharper> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<cpaelzer> better late than never, on the topic before "systemd fun" FYI 234 is in proposed
<cpaelzer> and fixes one of my issues, so it is fun this time
<rharper> well, that's got to be better than 232 and 233
<rharper> no team events to announce yet
<rharper> ok
<rharper> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rharper> fire away
<smb> rharper, as you asked for more systemd "fun": here you go: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1703882
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1703882 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-networkd does not pick up dns-search from DHCP" [Undecided,New]
<rharper> that's no fun
<smb> though might be fixed in the new version, I have not yet looked
<rharper> I suspect AA under MAAS is going to be interesting
<smb> the interesting as in "interesting times"
<rharper> indeed
<rharper> there doesn't seem to be anything up for discussion so I'll go ahead and close
<rharper> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rharper> chair will be powersj
<powersj> \o/
<rharper> meeting sametime a week from now, minus 35 minutes
<rharper> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 18 16:35:58 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-07-18-16.02.moin.txt
<ahasenack> thx
<cpaelzer> thank you rharper!
<rharper> np
<powersj> thx rharper
<powersj> o/
 * rharper queues of the background work 
<rharper> up
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-20
<rbalint> o/
<philroche> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 20 15:05:35 2017 UTC.  The chair is philroche. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<philroche> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<philroche> echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray slangasek infinity sil2100 cyphermox tdaitx
<philroche> xnox mwhudson rbalint rcj philroche Odd_Bloke Tribaal fginther)
<xnox> bah
<xnox> is that it? so little people.
<tdaitx> $ echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray slangasek infinity sil2100 cyphermox tdaitx xnox mwhudson rbalint rcj philroche Odd_Bloke Tribaal fginther)
<tdaitx> ^ that's the right one
<tdaitx> unless you filtered whoever is away already
<philroche> tdaitx xnox Odd_Bloke rbalint bdmurray sil2100 mwhudson doko Tribaal slangasek fginther philroche infinity rcj cyphermox
<tdaitx> that's not what I got here
<tdaitx> =P
<tdaitx> * openjdk 8 update
<tdaitx> * openjdk 7 backports
<tdaitx> * whoopsie sru
<tdaitx> that's it
<xnox> systemd work - sru testing, sru fixup, migration to v234, migration to UseDomains=true by default
<xnox> ocaml transition - done
<xnox> got eTA visa for Canada to go to Debconf
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> Odd_Bloke: is at a sprint
<bdmurray> rbalint: ?
<rbalint> * short week, was sick for a few days :-(
<rbalint> * further fixes for unattended-updates LP: #1690980
<rbalint> * GCE new upstream LP: #1705448
<rbalint> * other cloud-related work
<rbalint> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1690980 in OEM Priority Project "unattended-upgrades does not block shutdown of system, as it is designed to" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690980
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1705448 in gce-compute-image-packages (Ubuntu Zesty) "Update google compute-image-packages to 20170718" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705448
<bdmurray> SRU queue reviews (Z,X,T)
<bdmurray> worked on resolving ubuntu-release-upgrader E722 errors
<bdmurray> modify daisy bug bridge comment to say errors.u.c is for developers
<bdmurray> modified daisy's requeue_old_swift_cores code to delete EoL releases cores
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding staging and production update of daisy ET
<philroche> rbalint: Let me know if you want the new gce package tested
<bdmurray> tested staging update of daisy ET
<bdmurray> went to test daisy and ran into whoopsie LP: #1697375
<bdmurray> fixed whoopsie bug in AA regarding n-m state LP: #1697375
<bdmurray> sponsored tdaitx's SRU (XZ) of whoopsie
<bdmurray> uploaded u-r-u and u-m SRUs to XZ queue for LP: #1700829
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1697375 in whoopsie (Ubuntu Zesty) "whoopsie's network-manager state querying is broken" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1697375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700829 in update-manager (Ubuntu Zesty) "-d switch isn't accurately described" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700829
<bdmurray> wrote a test case for LP: #1700829
<bdmurray> updated upstream apport branch with fixes for LP: #1700573
<bdmurray> uploaded artful apport fix for LP: #1700573
<bdmurray> working on artful apport E722 errors
<bdmurray> investigation into update-manager not depending on libgtk2-perl
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700573 in apport (Ubuntu Artful) "Code execution through path traversal in .crash files processing" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700573
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager to AA to recommend on libgtk2-perl
<bdmurray> sent email to ubuntu-devel and blogged about release upgrade changes
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> sil2100 is gone
<Tribaal> Only partner stuff this week.
<Tribaal> Done.
<fginther> * Semi-automated publication of images to Azure Germany
<fginther> * Automated image publication workflow improvements
<fginther>   * Fixes for determining candidate images
<rbalint> philroche: thanks, it seems to be a minor update but it needs testing according to the SRU process
<fginther> â done
<philroche> * Final Yakkety cloud image promotion prior to EOL
<philroche> * Cloud images build system Vanguard
<philroche> * Cloud images build system automated promotion
<philroche> (done)
<bdmurray> What goes into that final cloud image?
<infinity>  * Most of the week eaten up with 16.04.3 SRU wrangling:
<infinity>    - SRU reviews, sorting out what's in proposed, etc
<infinity>    - Back-and-forth on the HWE kernel to get what we need
<infinity>    - Chasing down verification and testing on the HWE X stack
<infinity>  * Prepping to EOL Yakkety
<infinity>  * Regular AA tasks
<infinity>  * Going through autopkgtest failures to get glibc to migrate
<infinity>  * Failing to sleep properly (been up all night, will be napping post-meeting)
<infinity> (done)
<philroche> FYI the final Yakkety build promoted was 20170719
<rcj> rcj:
<doko> hmm, somebody skipped me ...
<rcj> * Reviewed derivative cloud publication design for new build system
<rcj> * New cloud-image daily publication workflow put into production for Xenial and later
<rcj> * New cloud-image release publication in development for 17.04 (was waiting for new zesty daily due to build blockers)
<rcj> â done
<infinity> bdmurray: I think it's just one last daily promoted, so it takes no upgrades on boot.
<rcj> doko:
<cyphermox> doko: go for it
<doko> - last week vacation
<doko> - forward ocaml glibc issue, contact upstream
<doko> - preparing openjdk-8 and -9 updates
<doko> - python 3.6.2 release
<doko> - binutils update
<doko> - start again looking at gcc-5 backports
<doko> (done)
<cyphermox> - [HIGHLIGHT] released nplan 0.25: test fixes, IPv6 RA fixes, handling MTU via NM
<cyphermox> - reviewed multipath-tools merge
<infinity> doko: "ocaml glibc issue"?
<cyphermox> - reviewed merge proposals for ubiquity
<infinity> doko: You mean ocaml binutils issue. :P
<cyphermox> - ubiquity 17.10.1 release
<cyphermox> - shim SRU verifications
<cyphermox> - DMB work: packageset review/update, etc.
<cyphermox> (done)
<xnox> [HIGHLIGHT] ocaml transition done
<infinity> [HIGHLIGHT] OMG YAKKETY EOL
<cyphermox> weeeee
<bdmurray> [HIGHLIGHT] notified people about release upgrade process and changes
<cyphermox> can we EOL vivid now?
<infinity> No. :(
<infinity> The next person to ask me gets stabbed in the face over the internet.
<philroche> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> I'm OB-free.
<xnox> cyphermox, we have a trello card about it \o/ tagged you both in it.
<xnox> it states the reason why
<cyphermox> xnox: I was just trolling
<doko> infinity. yes. did you make progress with the glibc migration?
<infinity> doko: Progress yes, but not quite there.  Some more autopkgtests to grind through.
<bdmurray> infinity: somebody got a bit of a backtrace in bug 1637180
<ubottu> bug 1637180 in update-manager (Ubuntu Artful) ""The computer needs to restart" dialog constantly eats CPU" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637180
<doko> about other "disruptive" changes ... I'm planning to start the gcc-7 transition next week / the week after.
<doko> would be nice if we could finish the python3.6 as default before
<doko> mwhudson: ^^^
<bdmurray> philroche: I think that's it
<infinity> philroche: *cough* #endmeeting
<philroche> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 20 15:25:19 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-07-20-15.05.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-07-16
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> Who's here?
<DalekSec> Hopefully enough.
<cyphermox> o/
<cyphermox> although, brb 2 minutes
<cyphermox> so, do we quorum?
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> We need one more I think
<sil2100> I am around but slightly distracted
<rbasak> I don't see our applicant here
<DalekSec> I am here.
<sil2100> Ah, we didn't know you since you have a different nickname
<sil2100> s/know/recognize/
<DalekSec> DalekSec/Ukikie/Unit193 are what I'm on as right now. :)
<cyphermox> well, we're not quorate those
<cyphermox> *though
<sarnold> ukelele is the one that I can never remember :)
<cyphermox> sarnold: you're here to cheerlead for Unit193?
<sarnold> cyphermox: by a happy coincidence :D
<cyphermox> ah
<DalekSec> I don't think sarnold has had to review many of my uploads. :)
<sarnold> I have to admit I didn't *know* about it ahead of time, but whatever it is unit193 is applying for, it's probably a good idea :D
<DalekSec> MOTU, sarnold.
<sarnold> nice
<sarnold> I have to admit I would have said you already had that :)
<DalekSec> Wouldn't be the only one that thinks it, but alas I'm only Xubuntu packageset.  20 minutes pass, I presume no meeting?
<rbasak> I guess not. Sorry :-/
<DalekSec> Feel free to ask any questions (preferrably in -motu as I've got to go.), otherwise see you in Aug...
<sil2100> eh
<sil2100> DalekSec: sorry we couldn't review you today!
<sil2100> DalekSec: I know we do have a bad history of those, but maybe an e-mail application in this case?
<DalekSec> sil2100: I'd highly prefer not, but might have to.
<sil2100> DalekSec: if you decide on that we'll do what we can to make sure the absent members ask questions and submit their votes as soon as possible
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-07-19
<sil2100> o/
<juliank> o/
<cyphermox>  (ã»_ã»)ã
 * sil2100 not ready
<rbalint> o/
<rcj> o/
<fginther> \o
<cyphermox> I don't think slangasek or gaughen are there to chair this meeting though
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 19 15:04:22 2018 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther juliank)
<cyphermox> cyphermox rbalint xnox doko philroche juliank sil2100 bdmurray mwhudson infinity Odd_Bloke tdaitx fginther rcj slangasek
<cyphermox> - sponsored ca-certificates-java bionic SRU for tdaitx
<cyphermox> - grub2 fixes for hidden timeout; patched relocation in cosmic
<cyphermox> - shim testing for firmware validation fixes (netboot and cloud)
<cyphermox> - 18.04.1 SRUs.
<cyphermox> - updating ubiquity for 18.04.1
<cyphermox> (done)
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * fixed pkgbinarymangler to not break multiarch conistallation of perl gpm and other packages (SRUd)
<rbalint> * provided detailed reproduction steps for LP: #1775226, to help really disabling Gnome Software upgrading packages in the background
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1775226 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Gnome Software offers installation of updates on shutdown independently from update-manager and unattended-upgrades" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1775226
<rbalint> * lot of unattended-upgrades SRU verification for bionic and preparing one more last update for it
<rbalint> * tried mostly orange icon only for WSL but it does not look good on orange
<rbalint> (done)
<xnox> Back from vacation on Tuesday.
<xnox> boost transition fixes
<xnox> mdadm sru testing for .1
<xnox> systemd sru testing for .1
<xnox> btrfs-progs hook ...
<xnox> trying to understand screen maintainer scripts
<xnox> done
<fginther> doko ?
<fginther> philroche is out
<fginther> juliank:
<juliank> * Various SRUs and devel uploads for bug 1780996
<juliank> * grub2 secureboot policy verification change
<ubottu> bug 1780996 in guile-2.2 (Ubuntu Bionic) "Convert triggers to noawait" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780996
<juliank> * close to complete fix for bug 1775236; but maybe we should just get rid of hwe-support-status since it's rolling now?
<ubottu> bug 1775236 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Bionic hwe-support-status incorrect" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1775236
<juliank> (done)
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Yet another kernel SRU re-spin cycle for 4.15!
<sil2100> - 16.04.5 (tracked on trello):
<sil2100>   * Coordination of the langpack update testing
<sil2100>   * Started preparing the point-release changelog
<sil2100>   * Preparing base-files bump
<sil2100>   * Bumped versions in debian-cd and cdimage
<sil2100>   * Waiting for -hwe and GA kernels to be ready for -updates
<sil2100>   * Lots of various coordination
<sil2100> - 18.04.1:
<sil2100>   * Prepared and released full -base refresh of language packs
<sil2100>   * Prepared point-release changelog
<sil2100>   * Sponsored a console-setup SRU for .1
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image rpi3:
<sil2100>   * Fixed ADT issues with coverage, fixed some deprecation warnings in snapcraft.yaml
<sil2100>   * Attempted fixing the snap.sh ADT failure in CI
<sil2100>   * Started investigating issue with freshly-built snap version of ubuntu-image crashing
<sil2100> - Performed NEW review on lxqt-archiver - rejected
<sil2100> - Analyzed and time-estimated some work regarding possible rpi3 arm64 support
<sil2100> - Partially off on Wednesday
<sil2100> (done)
<cyphermox> sil2100: console-setup needs ubiquity update too?
<bdmurray> reported Traceback encountered LP: #1781412 when testing bug 1780841
<bdmurray> tested and fixed the Traceback in the bug reported above
<bdmurray> SRU verification of u-r-u changes for 18.04.1
<bdmurray> review of smoser software-properties MP
<bdmurray> commented on regression of Vte.Terminal.feed_child() LP: #1780501
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1781412 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with UnboundLocalError in _replaceDebsWithSnaps(): local variable 'proc' referenced before assignment" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1781412
<ubottu> bug 1780841 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubuntu-release-upgrader should transition debs to snaps" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780841
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1780501 in vte2.91 (Ubuntu Bionic) "Traceback calling Vte.Terminal.feed_child()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780501
<bdmurray> tested didier's apport-noui / whoopsie changes on cosmic
<bdmurray> tested lubuntu dist-upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04 (no issue and no snaps were installed)
<bdmurray> investigation into multiple autopkgtest failures b/c of noawait SRUs
<bdmurray>   added hints a few packages because of badtests
<bdmurray> fixed nevow bionic FTBFS (again part of noawait SRUs)
<bdmurray> uploaded apport to cosmic which fixes install of apport-noui starting apport-autoreport
<cyphermox> sil2100: ok, I guess not
<bdmurray> added the same change to didier's bionic SRU of apport
<bdmurray> SRU reviews
<bdmurray> investigation into screen permissions bug LP: #1761997
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1761997 in screen (Ubuntu) "/var/run needs mode 777 in bionic" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761997
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> a whole bunch of people are busy / missing so tdaitx
<doko> oops, sorry
<doko>  - GCC transition, libgfortran, boost uploads
<doko>    - ffmpeg, entangled with qt5
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> how about fginther then
<fginther> * Investigate disabling of systemd-resolved in 18.04 k8s images
<fginther> * Investigate issue with old eol images still present on a partner cloud
<fginther> * Filed bug for snapd issue failing cosmic image testing: LP: #1781919
<fginther> * Making some progress on cloud-init ssh user redirect: LP: #1771198
<fginther> * Identified issue blocking trusty maas images
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1781919 in snapd (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/snapd/snapd-apparmor: No such file or directory" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1781919
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1771198 in cloud-init "Support disable_root-esque behaviour for other users" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771198
<fginther> â done
<bdmurray> rcj:
<rcj> * cloud-image infrastructure care and feeding
<rcj> * cloud partner preview image creation for new offerings
<rcj> * cloud partner test image production
<rcj> * reviewed image indexing enhancement design
<rcj> * cloud-image infrastructure vanguard
<rcj> â done
<rcj> slangasek:
<tdaitx> bdmurray: gah, sorry, was distracted getting a short status out
<bdmurray> well since slangasek is busy about how you go
<cyphermox> tdaitx: go for it
<tdaitx> * ca-certificates bionic sru (LP: #1770553, tks cyphermox), libjni-java triage & investigation (LP: #1662813, ongoing)
<tdaitx> * going over packages that build-dep on openjdk-8 and checking openjdk-10 compatibility
<tdaitx> * openjdk-8 & openjdk-10 security updates
<tdaitx> - working on openjdk-7 backports, checking upstream proposed patch
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1770553 in ca-certificates-java (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] backport ca-certificates-java from cosmic (20180516ubuntu1)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770553
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1662813 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "Libjna-jni uses wrong path on package installation on s390x" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662813
<cyphermox> #topic http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<cyphermox> mostly point-release
<cyphermox> anything point-release related we need to dsicuss?
<bdmurray> juliank: Have you looked at bug 1766890 any more?
<ubottu> bug 1766890 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-6ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766890
<juliank> bdmurray: Not really yet. Was about to restore apt-clone and try some stuff, but not done yet
<juliank> Could add a Pre-Depends somewhere I guess, but sounds a bit scary too
<bdmurray> juliank: Okay, I think I still have that vm running if you need some logs
<juliank> Basically I'd try adding a Pre-Depends _somewhere_ so that stuff gets configured in two runs
<juliank> but it might do more harm than it helps
<juliank> With systemd fixed, we could set Immediate-Configure to 0, and it _should_ work
<juliank> Regression potential being that if the upgrade fails, essential packages will be unconfigured too
<bdmurray> That seems worse
<juliank> s/will/might/
<juliank> Well, they are designed to work unconfigured.
<juliank> But we did hit bug 1771791
<ubottu> bug 1771791 in systemd (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Need to pre-depend on stuff used by systemctl, so systemctl works in other package's preinst" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771791
<cyphermox> #topic Any Other Business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Any Other Business?
<bdmurray> sil2100: Do you need any help with SRU stuff?
<sil2100> bdmurray: not sure, I'll still be looking at the xenial queue later today but from bionic I'll only look at u-u
<sil2100> Didn't see anything there critical for .1
<bdmurray> What about all the noawait changes?
<juliank> I think we do want all of those in before 18.04.1 is released
<juliank> But that's mostly in xenial
<sil2100> bdmurray: for bionic I guess all landed?
<bdmurray> I think infinity mentioned testing upgrades with them
<sil2100> bdmurray: ah, ok, I see guile-2.2 there
<juliank> guile-2.2 will be needed for 18.04->18.10 and later only I think
<bdmurray> Does doing an upgrade test seem worthwhile?
<juliank> Well, I would not expect it to regress w/ trigger changes
<cyphermox> we all good?
<bdmurray> Sure, we can talk about this elsewhere.
<cyphermox> well, if it's AOB relevant to the meeting it would be good to have it in minutes
<cyphermox> 18.04.1 and upgrading qualifies I think ;)
<bdmurray> I'll test an upgrade just in case.
<cyphermox> #endmeeting!
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 19 15:30:48 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-07-19-15.04.moin.txt
<cyphermox> thanks everyone!
<sil2100> Thanks!
<Wimpress> o/
<wxl> hey..
<Wimpress> I'm at a Sprint in Montreal.
<Wimpress> It's not really a great time to attend the meeting
<wxl> that's ok, no one's been organizing them for weeks :/
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-07-22
<e4g1e> .
<e4g1e> helli
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-15
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> Who's here?
<rbasak> I see no applications today, so there are just some outstanding action items.
<cyphermox> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-16
<cyphermox> doko: didrocks : cpaelzer : mir team meeting?
<didrocks> cyphermox: oupsss, didn't see the ping, nothing to raise for me
<cyphermox> well, no; but since we have a recurring meeting ;)
<cpaelzer> hi
<cpaelzer> nothing new for me either since probert was done
<cpaelzer> all else went fine the last week in regard to MIRs
<cpaelzer> kornosnet and edk2 fully completed
<cpaelzer> umm "kronosnet"
<cpaelzer> nothing to raise with the team this week
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-17
<clobrano> hey 0/, is this the right place and time for the Ubuntu Membership meeting, right?
<Laney> tsimonq2: wxl:
<Laney> can you wake your membership board buddies up to consider my good pal clobrano?
<clobrano> Laney: :D thanks
<wxl> Laney: sorry, i don't think there are many of us that are awake at that time. i'm certainly not.
<Laney> wxl: ok, maybe you want to talk about it in the team - not the best if you advertise a meeting time and then nobody shows up to meet the applicant
<wxl> Laney: already ahead of you on that one
<Laney> great
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-18
<tdaitx> o/
<cyphermox> o/
 * vorlon waves
<waveform> o/
<vorlon> tdaitx: you're chairing, correct?
<tdaitx> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 18 15:01:51 2019 UTC.  The chair is tdaitx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
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<tdaitx> #topic Lightning rounds
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<tdaitx> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<tdaitx> doko tdaitx juliank cyphermox mwhudson xnox bdmurray sil2100 vorlon rbalint infinity waveform
<juliank> lol
 * juliank disappears again
<vorlon> doko: are you here or are you conference-idle?
<tdaitx> ok, I am going
<tdaitx> * jck 11
<tdaitx>   - splitting into separated snaps for upload
<tdaitx>   - fixing a few more test failures from the runtime testsuite
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 & openjdk-8 security update
<tdaitx>   - fixed build + autopkgtests tests
<tdaitx>   - local build tests + ppa upload for sanity checking
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> - will be at debconf next week
<tdaitx> - away on vacation from Aug 1st to 18th (2 weeks from now)
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> juliank: go! =)
<cyphermox> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> off next week: monday and tuesday for move
<cyphermox> grub efi testing and debugging (side-effect of merging and conflicting patches)
<cyphermox> uploaded grub2 2.04 merge
<cyphermox> investigating chainloader issues loading EFI binaries from bootctl
<cyphermox> speccing NM plugin work
<cyphermox> speccing netplan renderer for openvswitch
<cyphermox> preparing new shim release / upload, carrying over the shim upload Dann prepared (and herding cats to get it reviewed)
<cyphermox> I do need to do some aggressive upstreaming of grub patches
<doko> online, but unprepared ...
<bdmurray> no mwhudson
<bdmurray> xnox: you're up
<xnox> * building core20 snap off eoan => it work! * progressing with ubuntu-core-initramfs => debugging systemd is fun! * code reviews * packaging to go to debconf & toronto product sprints. Done
<bdmurray> xnox: packaging for debconf?
<xnox> bdmurray:  >_< packing
<xnox> bdmurray:  same difference
<bdmurray> modified daisy jobs and oops-repository code to use consistency level of ONE for new cassandra DC
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding updating daisy to r837 w/ consistency level changes
<bdmurray> updated daisy to stop accepting crashes from Ubuntu 18.10
<bdmurray> modified daisy and oops-repository to stop using unicode in package and version which fails when writing to cassandra
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding updating daisy to r841 w/ unicode changes
<bdmurray> submitted ET mojo spec MP switching to staging PPA for staging Error Tracker
<bdmurray> uploaded laney's changes to whoopsie to eoan
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 1829968 for 18.04, 18.10, 19.04
<bdmurray> further research into ubiquity minimum installation sizes
<ubottu> bug 1829968 in base-files (Ubuntu Cosmic) "motd [on at least some instances] does not auto-update daily" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829968
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> â done
<vorlon> and sil2100 is away
<tdaitx> this is from sil2100 email:
<tdaitx> - Slightly shorter week - was half-there on Friday
<tdaitx> - SRU reviews and releases
<tdaitx> - New core18 release phasing
<tdaitx> - Gadget snap promotions, re-spinning 2 that were missing some fixes (cm3, pi3)
<tdaitx> - Coordinating the release of the rust 1.35.0 update, publishing it to
<tdaitx> -updates/-security
<tdaitx> - Updating RustUpdates slightly
<tdaitx> - Finalizing the NEW review of dpf-plugins
<tdaitx> - Testing some scenarios of classic preinstalled Ubuntu images grub
<tdaitx> package upgrades
<tdaitx>   * Started thinking about what our design should be here, will modify
<tdaitx> my current solution slightly
<tdaitx> - Refereshed netplan's PR for enabling support for hashed passwords in
<tdaitx> 802.1x and added tests
<tdaitx> - Started investigation of autopkgtest regression bug comments
<tdaitx> sometimes commenting when no failures are present
<tdaitx> - Investigating a false alarm regarding the pi gadgets and cm3+
<tdaitx> support (coming from ogra)
<cyphermox> sil2100: netplan PR <3
<tdaitx> (done)
<cyphermox> (I know he's not there, but my cheerleading will be in the logs for posteriority)
<vorlon>  * short week: was out last Friday and again yesterday
<vorlon>  * fixing various autopkgtests that were blocking glibc and linux in -proposed
<vorlon>  * SRU spot reviews (having missed my SRU Friday) for regression-updates (apache2)
<vorlon>  * prepping for the Toronto sprint
<vorlon>  * discussions around interesting partner SecureBoot requirements
<vorlon> (done)
<vorlon> rbalint is off
<vorlon> infinity not here
<vorlon> waveform:
<doko> - vacation on Fri/Mon, traveling on Tue
<doko> - now at DebCamp
<waveform> * Worked on pi4 u-boot; patches are now available from agherzan's u-boot fork but I have yet to get them working with our u-boot (successfully built patches on our version but while it worked on pi3, it failed on pi4; will probably need to bump u-boot)
<waveform> * Worked on core+classic combined boot script (need to talk to snapd team about modifying the A/B support)
<waveform> * Investigated lack of splash screen on core 18 (no conclusion as yet: psplash seems intact and the boot script certainly loads it, but nothing is displayed)
<waveform> * Tested package to SRU linux-firmware-raspi2 to bionic (for CM3+ and 3B+ boot support)
<waveform> (done)
<doko> (done)
<tdaitx> anything else before we move to incoming bugs?
<bdmurray> vorlon: what is the status of that apache2 upload? Does it need releasing?
<vorlon> bdmurray: yes
<bdmurray> Is that something you need help with?
<vorlon> bdmurray: I can take care of it this morning
<bdmurray> tdaitx: bug time?
<tdaitx> #topic Release incoming bugs (eoan)
<tdaitx> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
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<bdmurray> Do we start with Undecided or Critical and High first?
<bdmurray> Lets say undecided
<bdmurray> bug 1833758 sil2100 was going to test something
<ubottu> bug 1833758 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "lvm2: vgcfgbackup in postinst takes several minutes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1833758
<bdmurray> bug 1836782 loooks new
<ubottu> bug 1836782 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) ""ubi-partman failed with exit code 10" when stepping back and forward over partitioning screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1836782
<vorlon> Â¯\(ã·)/Â¯
<xnox> exit code 10 suggests "question not found from debconf"
<bdmurray> 19.04?
<xnox> could happen if like a disk falls off the bus
<bdmurray> Sounds like he clicked back when he shouldn't have
<bdmurray> Regardless it needs testing in Eoan
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> I can haz a look
<bdmurray> Okay, thanks
<cyphermox> I'm going to be doing some reinstalls next week
<bdmurray> Importance Medium?
<vorlon> a disk fell off the back of the bus?
<bdmurray> dabus
<bdmurray> dbus!
<cyphermox> feels like it's maybe some crash because of weirdness in the partitioning
<bdmurray> remind me about partitioning weirdness
<vorlon> targetting/carding
<cyphermox> I'll give a shot to weird partitioning I can thing of and see if I can reproduce on eoan and 18.04
<bdmurray> okay moving back to High
<bdmurray> bug 1829805
<ubottu> bug 1829805 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu Eoan Daily Image fails to boot after install on KVM" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829805
<vorlon> bdmurray: so 1833758 stays in limbo because sil2100 is going to test "something"?
<bdmurray> vorlon: whether or not it affects the build environment iirc
<vorlon> even if it did, I don't think that would make it a bug we need to commit to for eoan
<vorlon> we have plenty of other fish to fry
<bdmurray> ah, alright
<cyphermox> calamares breaking things?
<vorlon> calamares exposing a regression in initramfs-tools behavior that doesn't affect other install paths
<bdmurray> I'll do some detective work on it
<vorlon> this was discussed on #ubuntu-release at the time but the bug did not get updated; bdmurray to dig it out
<ogra> tdaitx, note that the false alarm is caused by cdimage dirs for core being a giant mess :) (/me expecting that "stable/current" actually has something stable and current :P, i know others from my team ran into similar issues before trying to get the last stable image from cdimage) ... the dir structure needs cleanup
<vorlon> but I think we should also decline committing to the bug in question given that the impact is now ~0
<vorlon> ogra: that was a paste of sil2100's status, you're playing telephone
<ogra> oops
<ogra> i didnt notice, sorry ... only saw the ping
<vorlon> also it's false that stable/current is not the current stable
<bdmurray> bug 1834226 has a tag for a card and a release task so untagging
<ubottu> bug 1834226 in software-properties (Ubuntu Eoan) "update-notifier doesn't respect "automatically check for updates: Never"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1834226
 * vorlon nods
<bdmurray> bug 1798992 is also tagged like there is a card
<ubottu> bug 1798992 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Fresh minimal desktop installation has packages pending autoremoval, pending updates" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798992
<vorlon> that bug was previously duped, then got unduped the other day per discussion w/ submitter on irc
<bdmurray> and the card is archived too
<vorlon> yeah I'll unarchive it
<ogra> vorlon, well, the cm3+ support is only in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/18/current/ ... not in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/18/stable/current/ ... i tested the latter, developerd a PR with a fix and was then told the fix is in current/ ... the structure is confusing and it isnt easy to catch that "current" is a daily build from edge
<bdmurray> so open a release task on the bug then?
<vorlon> yes
<vorlon> ogra: correct, the directory structure is busted and 18/current should be 18/edge/current but isn't because I haven't fixed ubuntu-cdimage to DTRT
<bdmurray> bug 1836064 is already carded etc
<ubottu> bug 1836064 in glibc (Ubuntu Eoan) "glibc needs an update for linux-5.2 kernel headers (alpha)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1836064
<bdmurray> and systemd has missing builds
<bdmurray> bug 1835809
<ubottu> bug 1835809 in systemd (Ubuntu Eoan) "AMD Ryzen 3000 series fails to boot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1835809
<bdmurray> regardless though that has a task already so dropping the tag
<vorlon> the glibc one only impacts the build of gcc-9-cross-ports which is not in main
<vorlon> from a Foundations pov we should decline it
<vorlon> (because doko could work around this by dropping alpha as a target)
<vorlon> so I'm adding rls-ee-notfixing
<doko> I worked around it adding the fix
<vorlon> ok
<doko> but it should be added to glibc proper for the next upload
<doko> sugessting an action involving four source packages is not appropriate
<vorlon> I'm not suggesting any action except that this is not a priority for Foundations to track at a team level
<vorlon> you can work out landing the fix w/ the glibc maintainer without it being part of the cognitive load of the team
<vorlon> bdmurray, tdaitx: I think that's all the ee bugs, right?
<bdmurray> vorlon: Yes, all the high and undecided ones
<tdaitx> #topic Release incoming bugs (bionic)
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<tdaitx> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> The only one there was still tagged when it had a task.
<bdmurray> So that's done.
<tdaitx> proposed migration then?
<vorlon> yes please
<tdaitx> #topic Team proposed-migration report
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<tdaitx> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> I've just now pushed retries of various flaky tests blocking readline and bison (network-manager, automake-1.16, cmake)
<vorlon> geoip-database is unmigratable in Debian unstable and in -proposed because it drops a binary package which has revdeps
<vorlon> so someone could follow through on that, make sure debian bugs are filed, recommend removal of the packages depending on the NBS package, etc
<vorlon> I've also just done a batch retry of the failures blocking bzip2, which are likely largely flaky and/or fallout of the dkms breakage which is now fixed
<vorlon> looks like that takes us down to aptdaemon?
<vorlon> who wants to take each of geoip-database and aptdaemon
<vorlon> aptdaemon hilariously is a real test regression introduced by changed lintian output
<vorlon> <crickets, crickets>
<vorlon> waveform: you want one of these?
<waveform> vorlon, not especially while I'm neck deep in pi4 u-boot :)
<vorlon> heh
<vorlon> well none of these are particularly urgent, but we are going to need to get to them sooner or later
<tdaitx> should we card those?
<vorlon> have we been carding stuck -proposed packages?
<vorlon> they tend to be bitesized
<tdaitx> ok
<vorlon> like, if you tell me I need to card them I might fix them both myself and then guilt y'all later
<vorlon> but if no one has capacity to take these on, we should just skip for now and move on to the next topic
<cyphermox> geoip-database
<tdaitx> #topic Chair selection for next meeting
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<cyphermox> (this was me claiming one)
<vorlon> cyphermox: ta :)
<tdaitx> cyphermox: want to claim chair for next meeting as well?
<cyphermox> sure.
<vorlon> cyphermox: lua-geoip, no bug filed yet in Debian
<cyphermox> oh wait
<cyphermox> sorry, I would prefer not to claim chair for next week
<tdaitx> ok, any volunteers?
<cyphermox> I will be mostly on cellular next week, only getting Interwebs plugged in in Thu PM
<cyphermox> vorlon: wee, lua ang geoip, WCPGW
<vorlon> cyphermox: (it might be as simple as updating the binary dep, or dropping the package since it has no revdeps)
<waveform> I can do it
<cyphermox> yep
<vorlon> waveform: ta :)
<cyphermox> waveform: ta
<cyphermox> I can right away offer to do the following week
<tdaitx> #topic AOB
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<bdmurray> I'm taking a half day tomorrow so I can go wear my Aloha shirt in the appropriate venue.
<vorlon> bdmurray: into a small municipality adjacent to Beaverton?
<cyphermox> I'm off Monday and Tuesday, and internet-challenged for most of the week. If you see I'm not responding next week on IRC, Telegram *will* work.
<tdaitx> I will be on vacations from Aug 1st to 18th, not even a cellphone working from Aug 4th onwards
<vorlon> end of meeting?
<tdaitx> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 18 15:54:35 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-07-18-15.01.moin.txt
<tdaitx> thanks y'all!
<vorlon> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-21
<alivebacon> yo, yer majesty!
<alivebacon> how's it hangin;?
<alivebacon> w o t
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-07-13
<rbasak> o/
<ddstreet> o/ here but in mtg so won't be able to participate much
 * fginther is here if there are any questions regarding my delegate team request
<slashd> o/ sorry I'm late
<rafaeldtinoco> o/
<slashd> same as ddstreet, I'm here but sprinting at the same time
<rafaeldtinoco> I think everybody is busy today =\
<slashd> do we have something on the agenda ?
<rafaeldtinoco> yep lots of things for me (pkgsets)
<rafaeldtinoco> ill open the meeting and go over it
<rafaeldtinoco> if others are all busy
<rafaeldtinoco> so I can update status
<rafaeldtinoco> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 13 19:06:58 2020 UTC.  The chair is rafaeldtinoco. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
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<rafaeldtinoco> #chair rafaeldtinoco
<meetingology> Current chairs: rafaeldtinoco
<rafaeldtinoco> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to put pkgset tooling to automatically update pkgsets (crontab)
<rafaeldtinoco> this is done ^. pkgset changes will be done tomorrow after some exception addictions to the exceptions file
<rafaeldtinoco> I'm still missing the wiki instructions (next items)
<rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from DMB KB page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from DMB KB page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> when instructions are ready
<rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco add jackd2 as an exception (from ubuntu-server to audio-plugins perhaps)
<rafaeldtinoco> done for the tomorrow run
<rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel (document exceptions inclusion for DMB team) (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel (document exceptions inclusion for DMB team) (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> carrying this over. after tomorrow's pkgset changes I'll create and link to the wiki
<rafaeldtinoco> #title Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
<rafaeldtinoco> oops
<rafaeldtinoco> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
<rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: there is a req for a delegate team
<rafaeldtinoco> to a list of packages.. I believe we have to ask AA for the team creation putting dmb as the administrator
<rafaeldtinoco> like you did before, right ?
<rafaeldtinoco> Request for delagate team for DKMS modules (Francis Ginther)
<rafaeldtinoco> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-July/001539.html
<ddstreet> we are able to create the team ourself, but creation of the packageset has to be sent to the TB, at least that's my understanding
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> I think there are two separate requests here really.
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: go ahead pls
<rbasak> One is to create an appropriate packageset for DKMS uploads
<rbasak> The other is to delegate membership management of that team.
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rbasak> IMHO, it'll be easier if we treat them separately
<rafaeldtinoco> sounds fair
<rafaeldtinoco> need a volunteer for those
<rafaeldtinoco> (as im already late for the pkgset scripts)
<rbasak> They're both decisions that will need voting on by the board as a whole I think
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: even if the given users
<rafaeldtinoco> already have permissions ?
<rbasak> One complicating factor here is that the DKMS fixing packageset can probably be expected to have quite a bit of overlap with uploaders of those packages
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: I don't think they do?
<rafaeldtinoco> yep likely not (perhaps colin only ?) but yep, they dont
<rbasak> fginther: ^ am I right about that?
<rbasak> overlap with uploaders of those packages> eg. virtualbox
<fginther> rbasak, you mean folks like colin already having per-package upload rights to some of those? Yes, I think there will be a few cases of this.
<rbasak> That may need coordination with people who generally upload that package.
<rbasak> fginther: yes, but really I mean the inverse - are there people who cannot currently upload those packages?
<rbasak> (in the proposed list of members)
<fginther> Yes, some of the people on the list I proposed do not already have access to any of these packages
<fginther> they have may uploads through sponsors only
<rbasak> Thanks
<rbasak> On the complicating factor I mentioned about, the complication in my view is that it seems odd to me that when an existing team is already close to a package, a separate team (eg. the DKMS maintainence team) would decide for themselves to add new people who can upload that package without reference to the team that generally maintains it.
<rbasak> Though, to be clear, this is clearly a good thing that we want to enable :)
<teward> oops i'm late
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: what if we consider this a seed ?
<rafaeldtinoco> "like a seed"
<sil2100> Same here
<rbasak> (that the people who volunteer to keep the DKMS packages in good shape not be blocked, that is)
<rafaeldtinoco> and we can have voting in adding/removing ppl from the "seed"
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: that's fine but it's the same difficulty as we already have with seeds I think. How overlaps are handled has never been very well defined
<rafaeldtinoco> to gain rights etc
<rafaeldtinoco> ppu rights would be still kept (per package basis)
<rafaeldtinoco> the whole list would be managed as a pkgset
<rafaeldtinoco> and we would vote to add new developers
<rafaeldtinoco> just like ubuntustudio or xubuntu, etc
<rbasak> Sure - I think that's the proposal :)
<rafaeldtinoco> should a seed be created then (first ?)
<rafaeldtinoco> with all those pkgs
<rbasak> I'm not sure why we need a seed
<rbasak> Can this just be a packageset?
<rafaeldtinoco> well adding/removing pkgs from the seed
<rafaeldtinoco> would turn this automatically managed
<rbasak> "Packages that ship DKMS modules that need updating to support new kernel version"
<rbasak> "Packages that ship DKMS modules that need updating to support new kernel versions"
<rbasak> We can add/remove packages to a packageset just the same as we can to a seed
<rafaeldtinoco> we do, yep
<rafaeldtinoco> not automatically, but yep
<rbasak> Changing seeds is also not automatic :)
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<rafaeldtinoco> sounds good.. im 1/2 suggesting 1/2 asking
<rafaeldtinoco> using your experience
<rafaeldtinoco> #chair rbasak
<meetingology> Current chairs: rafaeldtinoco rbasak
<rafaeldtinoco> mind adding the actions ?
<rbasak> We haven't decided anything yet!
<rafaeldtinoco> to create the pkgset with all those packages
<rafaeldtinoco> and then we would have to vote individually
<rbasak> Sure - but we still need to decide on criteria and process for adding uploaders to that packageset
<rafaeldtinoco> to add them to a team having rights
<rafaeldtinoco> i see
<rafaeldtinoco> having work sponsored ?
<rafaeldtinoco> on dkms packages ?
<rafaeldtinoco> (like MOTU ?)
<rbasak> Sponsored by whom? Who is allowed to be a sponsor for these packages, and how do we decide who can do that? That's what we need to decide.
<rafaeldtinoco> fginther: who has been sponsoring (majorly) the work ?
<rbasak> That's a good question. Can the existing sponsors speak to the appropriateness of the request and the initial proposed member list?
<fginther> I believe mostly Alberto Milone and Timo Aaltonen
<rbasak> Can we ask them what level of endorsement they're willing to provide for the invididual proposed initial members to be uploading to these packages?
<rbasak> That's how a normal PPU application would work, and it makes sense to me as a starting point for this more complex request.
<rbasak> (I don't think a new delegate team has been created in at least ten years!)
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: are you thinking on enabling sponsors/coredevs (to this delegate team) first
<rafaeldtinoco> and then going 1 by 1 in the application according to their application ?
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: core devs can already upload/sponsor these pacakges
<rafaeldtinoco> yep, i know (just did a edit-acl query on both)
<rbasak> Oh
<rbasak> You mean for delegation decisions
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rbasak> Because of the complication I mentioned above, I'm not sure it even makes sense for the delegate team to the same as the uploading team in this case.
<rbasak> It's not like it's a team responsible for their own product
<rbasak> eg. if the kernel team makes a mess of kernel packaging, the kernel team have to clean up the mess
<rbasak> But that's not necessarily the case if someone drives by fixing a DKMS issue (good) at the cost of the rest of the packaging (bad)
<rafaeldtinoco> yep we have some crossed things here
<rbasak> Here's what I propose
<rbasak> to make progress
<rafaeldtinoco> ohhh
<rafaeldtinoco> dpdk should get out of this list
<rbasak> We start by agreeing to create a packageset for this, though there's no reason to actually create it until we have uploaders.
<rbasak> We ask existing sponsors for endorsements for an initial set of uploaders, and judge them by normal standards as we might for PPU.
<rafaeldtinoco> asking sponsored uploads ?
<rafaeldtinoco> (so we can check ?)
<rbasak> I would add two requirements for uploaders acting under the privilege of this packageset: 1) that they coordinate as required by the teams that already handle these packages - if a non-trivial fix is required that has wider consequences than just the DKMS package, for example, that the maintaining teams get consulted first; and 2) no uploading of things not related to DKMS - regular sponsorship
<rbasak> required
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: yes
<rbasak> Then we grant packageset uploaders initially without delegation
<rafaeldtinoco> (1) merge reviews would satisfy that
<rafaeldtinoco> (2) agreed
<rbasak> (1) agreed, but I wouldn't want to require them. Some maintenance teams have other workflows. As long as the teams are satisfied that's what matters.
<rafaeldtinoco> for (2) warning about migration and regressions as well (responsible until the migration happens)
<rbasak> Yes - all the normal stuff about taking responsibility for uploads applies
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<rbasak> Then we see how it goes, and can consider delegation later.
<rafaeldtinoco> so you would do an initial
<rafaeldtinoco> packageset + PPU ?
<rafaeldtinoco> to each of them
<rbasak> Yes - creation of a packageset and an uploading team initially managed by the DMB, and we consider adding members to that team individually.
<rafaeldtinoco> based on the outcome of the sponsors feedback
<rafaeldtinoco> and our voting
<rbasak> Right
<rafaeldtinoco> sounds nice
<rbasak> fginther: how does that sound to you?
<rbasak> And does anyone else have comments?
<fginther> That sounds reasonable
<fginther> Thanks for proposing this
<rbasak> Thanks. Let me put a motion together
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: why did you say that dpdk should be excluded?
<rafaeldtinoco> i think cpaelzer takes care of it
<rafaeldtinoco> not sure about the kernel modules
<rafaeldtinoco> that can be checked/addressed with the pkgset creation
<rafaeldtinoco> and taking in consideration that uploads will have to be synced with whoever is in charge of the package uploads usually
<rbasak> IMHO, that wouldn't disqualify dkms from this packageset
<rbasak> The packageset uploaders would be expected to coordinate with cpaelzer as required, which could mean that cpaelzer continues to take care of it.
<rafaeldtinoco> y3p
<rbasak> But if cpaelzer is out, the packageset uploaders would still be able to do what is required, which I think is the goal anyway
<rafaeldtinoco> makes sense
<rafaeldtinoco> i just have one concern
<rafaeldtinoco> that is.. about enforcing that this coordination happens.. but we dont have a way to enforce among core devs currently, for example.. so it is the same.
<rbasak> All we can do is set our expectations
<rafaeldtinoco> ok.. so your suggestion does not require voting, but the upload rights will need
<rbasak> Assuming good faith, we can steer people who we think are mismatching our expectations.
<rafaeldtinoco> and one of the actions is to ask feedback from the current sponsors
<rbasak> Ultimately the DMB can remove people from uploading teams.
<rbasak> I think we should vote on the following motions
<rafaeldtinoco> yes, and usually on upload conflicts/issues usually a conversation "please sync with me next time" is enough
<rbasak> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/YW4wTcB6V9/
<rbasak> Any comments, suggestions, proposed amendements before I start a vote for these?
<rafaeldtinoco> not sure we have quorum (and if we dont id suggest that we continue through the mailing list)
<rafaeldtinoco> no questions
<rbasak> #vote Create a DKMS packageset defined as "Packages that ship DKMS modules that need updating to support new kernel versions" once we have further agreed upon at least one uploader to be able to upload to this packageset.
<meetingology> Please vote on: Create a DKMS packageset defined as "Packages that ship DKMS modules that need updating to support new kernel versions" once we have further agreed upon at least one uploader to be able to upload to this packageset.
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<rafaeldtinoco> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rafaeldtinoco
<rbasak> sil2100, slashd, ddstreet: ^ able to vote?
<rafaeldtinoco> teward as well ^
<rbasak> I guess we'll have to take this to the mailing list.
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rbasak> I'll post my proposed motions there and ask for votes
<rbasak> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Create a DKMS packageset defined as "Packages that ship DKMS modules that need updating to support new kernel versions" once we have further agreed upon at least one uploader to be able to upload to this packageset.
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<rafaeldtinoco> but do put here the other one
<rafaeldtinoco> so we have documented
<rafaeldtinoco> if you dont mind
<rbasak> We might as well get some votes in I suppose.
<rbasak> #vote Create a DKMS packageset uploading team once we have further agreed upon at least one uploader to be added to this team. This team will be authorised to upload to the DKMS packageset subject to two requirements. Requirement 1: that they coordinate as required by the teams that already handle these packages; for example if a non-trivial fix is required that has wider consequences than just the
<meetingology> Please vote on: Create a DKMS packageset uploading team once we have further agreed upon at least one uploader to be added to this team. This team will be authorised to upload to the DKMS packageset subject to two requirements. Requirement 1: that they coordinate as required by the teams that already handle these packages; for example if a non-trivial fix is required that has wider consequences than just the
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> DKMS package, then the team will be expected to be consulted first. Requirement 2: no uploading of things not related to DKMS when exercising the privileges of this team. If that means that a team member cannot upload, the normal sponsorship process will need to be followed.
<rbasak> FTR, I put in these restrictions in the hope that it will reduce the bar required to get applicants added to the team.
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<rafaeldtinoco> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rafaeldtinoco
<rbasak> The others clearly aren't here right now, so
<rbasak> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Create a DKMS packageset uploading team once we have further agreed upon at least one uploader to be added to this team. This team will be authorised to upload to the DKMS packageset subject to two requirements. Requirement 1: that they coordinate as required by the teams that already handle these packages; for example if a non-trivial fix is required that has wider consequences than just the
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<rbasak> I'll follow up on the ML
<rafaeldtinoco> nice! tks!
<rbasak> Any further comments for this agenda item?
<rafaeldtinoco> not from me
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: back to you then to continue with the agenda please?
<rafaeldtinoco> definitely
<rafaeldtinoco> thanks!
<rafaeldtinoco> #topic Verify ubuntu-budgie packages, possibly remove fossfreedom personal packageset if no longer needed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Verify ubuntu-budgie packages, possibly remove fossfreedom personal packageset if no lo
<rafaeldtinoco> pos
<rafaeldtinoco> ops.. this was supposed to be an item of TB bugs
<rafaeldtinoco> but...
<rafaeldtinoco> Verify ubuntu-budgie packages, possibly remove fossfreedom personal packageset if no longer needed
<rafaeldtinoco> we havent heard feedback from fossfreedom regarding this..
<rafaeldtinoco> i believe we can move on, but will wait another meeting on that item
<rafaeldtinoco> to discuss when we have more quorum
<rafaeldtinoco> #topic Any other business
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<rafaeldtinoco> any other business anyone would like to bring ?
<rafaeldtinoco> ill wait for ~1 minute here before closing the meeting
<rafaeldtinoco> alright.. calling it then
<rafaeldtinoco> @endmeeting
<rafaeldtinoco> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 13 20:06:13 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-07-13-19.06.moin.txt
<rafaeldtinoco> thank you all!
 * rafaeldtinoco will update the agenda items in wiki
<teward> sorry I got called off for work stuff >.>
<teward> hate it when work stuff crops up
<slashd> rbasak: sorry just get noticed, we run into severals mtg here my apologize
<slashd> apologies
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-07-14
<cpaelzer> rbasak: rafaeldtinoco: yes I take care of dpdk and all dkms bugs that the kernel Team so far threw at me
<cpaelzer> but as you said - there is no protection that e.g. other core devs clobber my uploads either, and I just trust them
<cpaelzer> this new PPU group will be in the same category
<cpaelzer> BTW - usually the kernel Team does pre-tests and gives heads ups to package maintainers via bugs like "the coming kernel 5.x will break foo"
<cpaelzer> these bugs are what I expect the coordination to happen on
<cpaelzer> hiho
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: doko: jamespage: sarnold: didrocks (n/a) MIR-ping
<ddstreet> o/ i'm in sprint mtgs today so only partially here
<jamespage> o/
<sarnold> good morning
<cpaelzer> then things will be fast (hopefully) didrocks is also unavailble
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 14 14:32:55 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
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<cpaelzer> none open from last time I remember, but I wasn't here last week - anything open?
<cpaelzer> nothing then?
<cpaelzer> if we miss any bring it up at the end when we collect misc topics
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> mostly known and/or under control
<cpaelzer> uboot still is on waveform IIRC
<cpaelzer> yes it is
<cpaelzer> qemu -> liburing is in progress and soon ready to be promoted
<cpaelzer> a bunch of things depend on the new kernel, but I guess apw will promote that right away - no MIR action
<cpaelzer> freetype -> fontrs-material-design-icons-iconfont is the only real new one
<cpaelzer> but as we discussed last time these should be fine to be handled by an AA directly (if they are really just a font)
<cpaelzer> this came in via auto-sync
<cpaelzer> kazoo was on jamespage IIRC, anythig new there?
<cpaelzer> or am I even misremembering that one?
<jamespage> no you are not
<cpaelzer> ok and masakari as well
<jamespage> lemme check - it might just be stuck in proposed
<cpaelzer> knowing these are with you makes them ok for the team
<jamespage> sqla-utils is required
<cpaelzer> as this is mostly about assinging new unassigned work
<cpaelzer> going on ...
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> only the special OEM types which are handled under the special terms defined for them
<cpaelzer> not needed to be checked
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> nothing new here
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
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<cpaelzer> If only the last 3 weeks before FF ould be so calm :-)
<sarnold> :)
<cpaelzer> well then, that is it for today
<cpaelzer> sarnold: pelase send amurray my thanks for reviewing liburing so fast
<sarnold> cpaelzer: will do :)
<cpaelzer> not counting out today
<cpaelzer> that is it :-)
<sarnold> *gasp*
<cpaelzer> I'm not around next week
<cpaelzer> someone else will need to check if all is still fine then :-)
<cpaelzer> ok well
<cpaelzer> 7
<cpaelzer> 12
<cpaelzer> 50
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 14 14:42:19 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-07-14-14.32.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, jamespage, ddstreet :)
<jamespage> np
<doko> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-07-16
<slyon> o/
<sil2100> o/
<juliank> O/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 16 15:01:55 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> tdaitx bdmurray waveform doko mwhudson juliank vorlon slyon infinity xnox rbalint sil2100
<sil2100> WON
<bdmurray> tdaitx:
<sil2100> \o/
<tdaitx> uh oh, I don't have it ready T_T
<tdaitx> sil2100: so I will go last instead =P
<bdmurray> SRU verified LP: #1884148
<bdmurray> investigation into update-motd autopkgtest failure on Focal (it strangely passed for Groovy)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1884148 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "dist upgrade process passes a number along with package to apport" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884148
<bdmurray> updated the fix for LP: #1873545 not to use $EUID as #! is /bin/sh
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1873545 in Ubuntu WSL "Permission denied error from show-motd when updates available" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873545
<bdmurray> review / testing of ~slyon/ubuntu-release-upgrader:slyon/focal-python2-fix
<bdmurray> reported autopkgtest bug LP: #1887183
<bdmurray> uploaded u-r-u for the 18.04.5 point release
<bdmurray> +1 maintenance
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1887183 in autopkgtest (Ubuntu) "--associate-ip does not work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1887183
<bdmurray> short week with some holidays
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Fixed issue in pending raspberrypi-userland (inclusion of EGL/GL headers clashing with libegl-dev) (LP: #1883111)
<waveform> * Addressed review of rpi-eeprom (LP: #1884748)
<waveform> * Prepared split linux-firmware-raspi2 using multi-upstream tarball style (LP: #1886581)
<waveform> * Bumped wifi firmware in linux-firmware-raspi2 to latest version
<waveform> * Worked on removal of u-boot from classic (postinst transition in flash-kernel and adjustment of custom "pi" method in flash-kernel to avoid u-boot tools)
<waveform> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1883111 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] raspberrypi-userland" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1883111
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1884748 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] rpi-eeprom" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1884748
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1886581 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 18.04 64-bit RasPi 3 and 4 image fails to boot on RasPi 4B" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1886581
<bdmurray> doko:
<bdmurray> how about juliank!
<juliank> Not sure it's complete, but here we go:
<juliank> jul 09:
<juliank> * short week, off sick mon & tue
<juliank> * apt 2.1.7
<juliank> * fixed make-dfsg on s390x by disabling use of posix_spawn, still needs investigating whether posix_spawn is broken on s390x or the make code uses it in a way that only fails on s390x (and only in flatpak-builder tests)
<juliank> * retry regressions
<juliank> jul 16:
<juliank> * initial work of freeing apt of masters, and slaves
<juliank> * cleaned up apt-key net-update spec
<juliank> * dug around in os-prober and snapshots
<juliank> * private stuff fba872e3c2d435b7a69acbb618fb888d0437d7b471758b2bb9e74de341b070fe
<juliank> * opened bugs for google chrome and keybase to stop using apt-key add, and use trusted.gpg.d
<juliank> * reviewed rpi eeprom package thingy for waveform
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * haskell transition work (mostly deleting broken packages)
<vorlon>   * pandoc on riscv64 takes foreeeeever
<vorlon>  * reviewing current net-apt key-update spec
<vorlon>  * working with server team on some changes to the motd-news implementation
<vorlon>  * partner meetings
<vorlon>  * discussions around an embargoed issue
<vorlon> (done)
<bdmurray> slyon:
<slyon> - Fixed python-mkdocs & streamlink for fonts-font-awesome migration
<slyon>   * sponsored by Dimiri & merged in Debian Salsa
<slyon> - Fixed cider for fonts-font-awesome migration
<slyon>   * sponsoed via Debian NMU by Dimitri
<slyon> - Discovered XSBC- field bug in dh-make-perl, fixed upstream
<slyon>   * Fix released, bug #1886461
<slyon> - Debugged 20.04 upgrade, if legacy python[-minimal] installed
<slyon>   * Updated Focal release notes about 'python-is-python2'
<slyon>   * MP awaiting review, bug #1875523
<slyon> - SRU verification for apport snap handling
<slyon>   * Fix released, bug #1861082
<slyon> - Improved IWD vs WPA Supplicant evaluation document
<slyon> - Collected netplan.io community engagement metrics
<slyon> === Netplan ===
<slyon> - Fixed non-OVS bonds in OVS netplan setup, with James & Lukasz
<slyon> - Improve OVS integration tests
<slyon> - Review Lukasz' implicit OVS fake VLAN bridges PR#151
<slyon> - Checked upstream NM's refusal of our netplan plugin
<slyon>   * considering different solutions, like a netplan-nm-bridge daemon
<slyon>   * needs team discussion
<slyon> - Reviewed Lukasz' SR-IOV first boot PR #141
<slyon> - Prepared OVS interface cleanup PR #153
<slyon>   * In review
<slyon> - Started working on Wireguard PR #113
<slyon> (done)
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> * mid-cycle product sprint + working on all the .1 release things & proposed-migration. Done.
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> * +1 maintenance
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: wireshark 3.2.5-1, libevent 2.1.12-stable-1
<rbalint> * merges: systemd as 245.6-2ubuntu1, then as 245.6-3ubuntu1 with additional fixes, mtd-utils
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * +1 maintenance (ongoing)
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> - Shorter week, had half-day on Friday, status only from this week
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRUs
<sil2100> - +1 maintenance on Monday/Tuesday-ish
<sil2100>   * Got slightly side-tracked fixing britney in bileto
<sil2100> - Phasing out new core18 into stable
<sil2100> - 20.04.1 and 18.04.5 point-release preparation
<sil2100>   * Prepared base-files
<sil2100>   * Pushed updated language-packs (base for focal, updates for bionic)
<sil2100>   * Coordination with various teams
<sil2100>   * General preparation per the checklists
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * Looking into the OVS config clean-up PR from Lukas
<sil2100>   * Started looking at SR-IOV improvement PR review comments
<sil2100>   * NM-plugin discussions
<sil2100> - Pushed appliance-build livecd-rootfs changes to bionic Unapproved
<sil2100> - Asked for upload of the new lxd appliance model assertion to the store
<sil2100> - Various meetings
<sil2100> (done)
<tdaitx> * improved jck snap documentation
<tdaitx> * working on regression detection for the jck testsuite in jenkins
<tdaitx>   - grabbing/copying artifacts in jenkins
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 and openjdk-8 security updates
<tdaitx>   - packaged openjdk-11, build failure on bionic, investigating
<doko> - more CET investigations
<doko> - GCC 10.2 release candidate
<doko> - binutils 2.35 snapshots
<doko> - Python 3.9 beta4
<doko> - two MIRs, NEW processing
<tdaitx>   - packaging openjdk-8
<doko> - get lintian again installable on i386
<tdaitx> * fixed jtreg regression
<doko> - started libgc and mpfr4 transitions
<tdaitx> (done)
<doko> - two +1 days
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> any questions on status?
<sil2100> None here!
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
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<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1886314 - is this for desktop or us?
<ubottu> bug 1886314 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "preinstall `earlyoom` by default" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1886314
<bdmurray> vorlon: ?
<vorlon> uh
<vorlon> I would want the kernel team to weigh in on this
<vorlon> before we install a package that changes the default oom handling
<bdmurray> okay
<juliank> huh, why does it need a userspace sercice?
<vorlon> yeah exactly
<bdmurray> So is anybody interested in this enough to drive it?
<juliank> not really
<xnox> nope
<xnox> bdmurray:  not fixing, possibly punt to like cking maybe
<xnox> it sounds interesting but also dubious
<bdmurray> ack
<bdmurray> bug 1887098
<ubottu> bug 1887098 in what-is-python (Ubuntu) "Installing python-is-python3 should affect pip as well" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1887098
<doko> is there a pip2?
<bdmurray> this bug actually has a duplicate
<xnox> doko:  we have python2 pip and python3 pip3, we don't have pip2
<doko> hmm, is python2 based pip really available in focal?
<xnox> let me check.
<doko> afaicr, that was only re-added later in unstable after the focal release.
<waveform> doesn't appear to be (at least there's no python-pip or python2-pip?)
<juliank> $ dpkg -S bin/pip
<juliank> python3-pip: /usr/bin/pip3
<juliank> python3-pip: /usr/bin/pip
<juliank> in groovy
<doko> probably should be packported
<doko> if we want to have a python2 based pip like debian will ship with bullseye
<doko> but I'm -1 on pip-is-*
<xnox> doko:  the request is for existing "python-is-python3" to ship pip -> pip3 symlink, like it does for `python` `python-config` etc.
<juliank> python-is-python3 should add pip->pip3 symlink
<xnox> not a new package
<juliank> however
<waveform> and presumably then python-is-python2 should do likewise for pip?
<doko> juliank: no way, please don't fuck around with extra dependencies
<xnox> doko:  no extra dependencies
<xnox> dangling symlink
<juliank> groovy ships it in python3-pip
<doko> so dangling symlink?
<xnox> note that in groovy /bin/pip is python3 shebang
<juliank> if we add dangling symlink to python-is-python3, we also need replaces/breaks in python3-pip in groovy
<slyon> but there is no python2 pip... so python-is-python2 -> pip does not work. Futhermore, there would be file conflicts if python2 pip is re-introduced
<waveform> right
<xnox> slyon:  we will not do that in the python-is-python2 package
<xnox> so /bin/pip will be a dangling symlink in python-is-python3 package only
<xnox> we can make it a file trigger
<bdmurray> I think this warrants some further discussion via email with a clear design.
<xnox> ok
<xnox> to be continued
<bdmurray> xnox: will you draft a plan?
<xnox> ok
<bdmurray> bug 1878225 already has a card so skipping
<ubottu> bug 1878225 in autopkgtest (Ubuntu) "Please remove lxd.snap from lxd images, as it fails to seed thus failing the first boot - snapd.seeded.service waits forever (?) to have snaps seeded in LXD on s390x and arm64" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878225
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1871641 the desktop team is looking for help from "a systemd expert"
<ubottu> bug 1871641 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu never finishes booting: A start job is running for Hold until boot process finishes up (3min 7s / no limit) -- removing 'splash' kernel parm fixes it" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871641
<rbalint> i guess that's a +1 for me :-)
<bdmurray> could you reach out to daniel and see what he needs?
<rbalint> sure, will do so
<vorlon> NB he's probably not very timezone-compatible
<rbalint> bdmurray, should i card it for myself instead for the team?
<bdmurray> rbalint: that sounds good to me
<bdmurray> are we waiting for hardware for bug 1883229?
<rbalint> done
<ubottu> bug 1883229 in subiquity "Ubuntu server installation on S3260M4 server fails" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1883229
<bdmurray> alright, that's that for new bugs
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> 41 packages needing attention, that doesn't sound good
<vorlon> vim is still mine
<juliank> well, build-essential triggered quite a few I suppose
<bdmurray> lintian is with me
<vorlon> I don't see why it should be
<vorlon> bdmurray: ok thanks
<vorlon> python3.8 vs sqlite
<waveform> libio-async-perl is still mine
<rbalint> i'm fixing systemd
<vorlon> sil2100: are you still on the python3.8 vs sqlite regression?
<vorlon> (and sqlite3 generally)
<sil2100> vorlon: yes, sorry, still on it...
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> libio-async-perl is just waiting on its dep which is part of the linitan stuff
<vorlon> rbalint mentioned being on systemd
<vorlon> juliank: xz-utils?
<juliank> yeah sounds fine
<vorlon> juliank: I think I tried to assign this to you last time but I'm not sure you saw
<vorlon> casper blocking qemu, what's that about
<vorlon> looks like we should leave this with the server team
<vorlon> curl is blocked on nettle, which is the ghc transition
<vorlon> freetds, gnutls28, libarchive same
<juliank> vorlon: I see my mention in the backlog, but I'm not sure I actively noticed
<vorlon> open-iscsi also tied to qemu, so skipping
<vorlon> rtmpdump, nettle again; then systemd and ubuntu-image for qemu again
<vorlon> libzstd
<slyon> I can look into libzstd vs badger, as I have been dealing with badger before
<vorlon> slyon: thanks
<slyon> (at least for the 64bit failure, 32bit problems need upstream fixing it)
<vorlon> build-essential, I've actually been picking at these already this morning, strangely there are some i386 autopkgtest false-positives that were never seen before
<vorlon> so I'll follow through on that one
<xnox> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#build-essential
<vorlon> glib2.0, might just need some autopkgtest retriggers.  xnox can you take?
<xnox> vorlon:  seb128 was doing some today, and some of them depend on the qemu fix previously mentioned.
<xnox> vorlon:  but sure, can try to help poking it.
<vorlon> well the qemu in release pocket should be ok surely
<vorlon> python-tz needs oops to drop python2 support, should be easy
<vorlon> waveform: ^^ can you take?
<waveform> vorlon, will do
<xnox> s390-tools waiting on AA new to accepted signing
<vorlon> ok I'll look at that shortly
<vorlon> dosfstools regressing livecd-rootfs, doesn't sound good
<vorlon> tdaitx: ^^ can you look at this?
<tdaitx> vorlon: ack
<vorlon> rbalint: is systemd/amd64 regressing for kbd related to your ongoing work?
<xnox> tdaitx:  maybe livecd-rootfs broken by itself? " python3-secretstorage : Depends: python3-jeepney but it is not installable"
<xnox> could be just components missmatches
<vorlon> that's a -proposed-only issue
<vorlon> python3-jeepney is (was?) an MIR
<rbalint> vorlon, i take kbd it then i'll see
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> bdmurray: can you take dnspython vs python-idna?
<vorlon> libsereal-decoder-perl, rather looks like a Debian issue, we might just ignore this for now and see if something better comes in via sync in the next week
<vorlon> and libevent vs mysql-8.0
<vorlon> who wants this last one
<rbalint> vorlon, it is mysql
<xnox> server team!
<bdmurray> vorlon: okay
<vorlon> rbalint: meaning?
<rbalint> vorlon, i take it, it regressed in release
<rbalint> (mysql regressed)
<xnox> Failing test(s): main.ssl_crl main.ssl_crl_crlpath main.ssl_crl_clients_valid
<vorlon> rbalint: ok, you'll follow through with hint mp?
<xnox> sounds like dates / times / timing valid/from valid/until
<rbalint> vorlon, yes
<vorlon> thanks
<vorlon> and that's done
<vorlon> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<doko> just a heads up, GCC 10.2 will be released next, and once that's built the defaults change will happen
<doko> next week even
<juliank> nice
<bdmurray> okay, thanks for the notification
<xnox> doko:  horay!
<vorlon> doko: can you communicate this to ubuntu-devel also?
<doko> vorlon: no, it's in the release schedule ;o
<juliank> more notifications don't hurt!
<bdmurray> thanks everyone
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 16 15:58:37 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-07-16-15.01.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/
<juliank> o/
<rbalint> o/
<slyon> o/
<cpaelzer> vorlon: xnox: open-iscsi, casper, ubuntu-image, systemd fails all are https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+bug/1887763
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1887763 in qemu (Ubuntu) "new default qemu TCG sizes exceed common CI setups" [Undecided,In progress]
<cpaelzer> only the qemu in groovy-proposed is affected and I'm engaged with upstream already (see links in the bug)
<cpaelzer> if becoming urgent we can have an interim fix and later on pick what upstream ends up with
<vorlon> cpaelzer: ack, thanks
<vorlon> not urgent for us, just needed to understand whether there was work for Foundations to do
<cpaelzer> ok, thanks
<cpaelzer> for now leave it with me (in sync to what you said in the meeting)
