#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-27
<lifulinghan> hello anyone
<Aquina> hy
<Mandrew> hello
<Mandrew> have you guy been thinking of adding conky to the distro as an default feature?
<knome> Mandrew, as a default feature... probably not going to happen
<Mandrew> ok
<knome> isn't it in the repositories anyway?
<micahg> why not switch to unity then?
<knome> uhh?
<Mandrew> knome, it is indeed
<micahg> ah, sorry, I was thinking of docky :-/
 * micahg hasn't really slept in ~21 hours
<Mandrew> docky is not in ubuntu/ unity by default ;)
<micahg> Mandrew: right, but it's a similar idea to unity, nevermind my comment :)
<knome> Mandrew, lol :))
<knome> err, micahg 
 * knome went to bed at 6am as well, and only slept 6 hours
<Mandrew> micahg, docky i can understand, but unity is totally different
<knome> we're not going for docky nor unity
<knome> ;)
<Mandrew> well that is a relief   ;)
<knome> i actually think there is some kind of special joke style in the FOSS world, which you need to identify ;)
<Mandrew> your thinking of unity and gnome-shell ;)
<Mandrew> think that the joke is on me now :D
<charlie-tca> desktop cd's are bad today
<charlie-tca> alternate should install, though
<charlie-tca> I will be running installs this afternoon, got to work on the grass while it is cool (early morning)
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel at 19:00 UTC today. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<ochosi> uh, that's already pretty soon
<ochosi> charlie-tca: how do you feel about the scrollbars now?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: You going with 64bit alt? I might be able to do 32bit alt. I also can't make the meeting again :(
<charlie-tca> Unit193: yes, I will do 64bit
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I like them
<ochosi> ok nice :)
<charlie-tca> Meeting in about 1.5 hours
<charlie-tca> I can't really see the arrows, though
<ochosi> that's the idea
<ochosi> since we liked arrow-less scrollbars, i just made them very small and almost invisible
<ochosi> (at least ff and ooffice don't break like this9
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> that was my idea :D
<GridCube> and i've updated murrine on my 10.04 and im using this last theme, i like it
<GridCube> the arrows aren't "that" invisible, if you lurk for them you can see them, also they are bigger on ff
<ochosi> yeah, i know, nothing i can do about ff
<charlie-tca> Yup, I agree, being as close to invisible as possible without removing them is good
<charlie-tca> GridCube: depends on eyesight, too
<charlie-tca> On my 22 inch monitor, they are like dots of dirt on the monitor
<GridCube> XD on my 17" monitor they are pretty notisable
<ochosi> yeah, i agree that they look a bit "dirty", but after using them for a while i started to like those dots
<ochosi> GridCube: screenshot?
<GridCube> mmm im on windows now :(
<ochosi> awwwh :)
<charlie-tca> GridCube: you are young, too! 
<charlie-tca> bad eyesight makes it harder to see "tiny" 
<GridCube> XD i use glasses 24/7
<ochosi> me too, that's not an argument ;)
<GridCube> well i actually need them to see far away, not for close viewing :P 
<Unit193> I could use (but don't NEED)  glasses, but I don't have any
* GridCube changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
<GridCube> ochosi, http://imagebin.org/160240
<Unit193> I don't even remember what the topic was...
<charlie-tca> why is GridCube changing the topic?
<knome> charlie-tca, there is no +t in #xubuntu-devel
<GridCube> what?
<GridCube> what did i did?
<ochosi> GridCube: re:screenshot: ok, that's exactly how it looks for me as well, i guess that's ok
<charlie-tca> What does having a +t got to do with playing with the topic?
<GridCube> oh... i changed the topic...
<knome> charlie-tca, if we have +t, unopped users can't change the topic. that's what.
<GridCube> i'm not even op here...
<charlie-tca> They shouldn't be touching it anyway. Usually we just throw them out for that
<GridCube> but i did nothing
<GridCube> D: i just logged in
<charlie-tca> and, I did not ban you :)
<knome> charlie-tca, then add +t, so you don't need to try to remember what the old topic was
<charlie-tca> I can see it in weechat
<charlie-tca> It gives me both the old and the new topics
<GridCube> i have it logged for the last few weeks that i've logged this channel XD
<charlie-tca> That too
<Unit193> What was the old one? Are there any changes?
<GridCube> nope its the same
<charlie-tca> There were no changes made, no
<GridCube> thats really weird i dont see how i changed the topic
<GridCube> unless... can i try something?
<charlie-tca> Must be a keypress in the IRC client
<charlie-tca> go
* GridCube changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<charlie-tca> Like I said, I see both 
<charlie-tca> magic keys, huh?
* GridCube changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
<GridCube> no, apparently on xchat if you touch the topic on the top bar and press enter it changes the topic
<charlie-tca> again?
<charlie-tca> Really?
<GridCube> i added the stuff i removed on the previous edition
<GridCube> yes
<charlie-tca> weird
<GridCube> apparently i tabbed and hit return
<charlie-tca> All the months (over 24) I used Xchat, I never did that
<GridCube> you should add +t
<Unit193> charlie-tca: You might want to do the topic so it's not "Topic set by GridCube (~noneof@190.49.173.47) (Mon Jun 27 13:37:26 2011)"
<charlie-tca> I don't care who it is set by. That gives a record if something does change
<Unit193> I noticed it didn't have +t long time ago and kinda liked it in a way (And never touched it!)
<charlie-tca> It hasn't changed, but when you see the name is changed, you know to look at it
<charlie-tca> knome: you know how to set +t?
<charlie-tca> I never do all this stuff, and would have to research it
<knome> charlie-tca, yesm but i don't have operator privileges in #xubuntu-devel 
<charlie-tca> you ain't?
<knome> nope
<charlie-tca> how do I do it then?
<knome> first get ops for yourself
<charlie-tca> I thought you were an operatior in all our channels
<knome> no, just #xubuntu 
<charlie-tca> okay, got that far
<knome> then simply try /mode +t
<charlie-tca> okay
<knome> done
<charlie-tca> now you want to be an op in here?
<knome> no
<Unit193>  /msg chanserv set #xubuntu-devel topiclock on  Might work better...
<charlie-tca> okay :(
<knome> now only ops can change the topic
<knome> Unit193, that's different
<knome> charlie-tca, well, i can be, no problem in that ;)
<knome> charlie-tca, but as i said, now the +t mode is set
<charlie-tca> who are the ops in here? Where would I find the list?
<Unit193> knome: Bah... Wrong one... From what I know, it was best to set it with ChanServ...
<knome> charlie-tca, /msg chanserv access #xubuntu-devel list
<charlie-tca> hm, I would like to see j1mc and crimsun removed and you added, I think
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: you around today?
<knome> charlie-tca, as far as i understand it, you have all the access rights
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> I will go find how to do this, then. 
<Unit193> charlie-tca: /msg chanserv help flags    ?
<GridCube> :) gotta go, sources of information test today, gotta study :D good luck to you all and have a nice community meeting
<charlie-tca> knome: done
<charlie-tca> Thanks for your help
<charlie-tca> knome: you are now an op in here
<charlie-tca> I didn't make you one in #xubuntu-offtopic, though
<Unit193> So we can't make fun of him anymore...
<knome> charlie-tca, thanks
<ochosi> Unit193: :D
<charlie-tca> knome really does know more about ops and IRC than I do
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 15 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<orngjce223> Okay, so I heard that the ubuntustudio people are going to move to an xfce-based desktop around 12.04 or so, so I may as well just idle and absorb information by osmosis.
<holstein> orngjce223: hey :)
<orngjce223> Hehe
<holstein> yeah... im exited about the move
<orngjce223> Excited? :v If you were exited you'd stop using it
<holstein> and watching the xubuntu team in action is quite inspiring
<orngjce223> Mmmm.
<orngjce223> So yeah, just going to idle
 * charlie-tca waves
<knome> ugh
 * micahg waves in a daze
<mr_pouit> o hai
<charlie-tca> heh, don't try a new vertical mouse without a lot of time
<charlie-tca> So, let's have a meeting
<ochosi> o/
<charlie-tca> #STARTMEETING
<charlie-tca> The full agenda for the meeting is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meeting
<charlie-tca> Today's agenda:
<charlie-tca> * Old business
<charlie-tca>   * Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU
<charlie-tca> * Team updates - Team Leads
<charlie-tca>   * Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca>   * Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca>   * Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca>   * Artwork
<charlie-tca>   * Documentation
<charlie-tca> * Announcements
<charlie-tca>   * TeamReports need to be updated
<charlie-tca> * Governance structure - all
<charlie-tca> * Any Other Business - all/anyone
<charlie-tca> So, I have not dug up the xscreensaver stuff, so let's go to team updates
<charlie-tca> TOPIC - Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg : go ahead, please
<mr_pouit> the usual round of merges/syncs from Debian (almost finished, should be ok at the end of this week)
<mr_pouit> I don't think we changed anything in the default package set last week
<charlie-tca> Have we added pastebinit?
<mr_pouit> (might be worth to put file-roller back, now that it won't pull in nautilus anymore)
<mr_pouit> eh, sorry, I forgot
<ochosi> fileroller +1
<charlie-tca> +1 fileroller and pastebinit
<micahg> wow, xarchiver is really that bad?
<mr_pouit> =)
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> micahg hasn't had the pleasure of fighting with xarchiver yet
<micahg> I hope to take a look at the seeds after the platform rally to see if we can get the size down
<charlie-tca> size down would be good, too
<charlie-tca> The 64bit alternate install image grew last night
<charlie-tca> live desktop is still broken, raised in the release team meeting
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: any thoughts on 10.04.3? Do we want to push it or just stay where we are
<charlie-tca> The only thing I see it might do is help with the logout instead of shutdown bug
<mr_pouit> mmh, we don't have any update at all in it
<micahg> nope, just a newer Firefox and THunderbird (point releases)
<mr_pouit> yeah, but this fix includes a regression, so it's not really suitable
<charlie-tca> Then I won't push that one. We can work on Oneiric instead
<charlie-tca> Any questions for development and packaging?
<charlie-tca> TOPIC - Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca> We are triaging a few bugs, mostly hitting the oneiric ones. 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit seems to be doing more bugs than I am again. 
<charlie-tca> Testing is going great! Of course, we lost a couple of volunteers as soon as we said we need them to test.
<charlie-tca> We are running tests almost daily, alternating partition methods and install methods to cover everything
<charlie-tca> any questions?
<charlie-tca> TOPIC - Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca> knome, pleia2 : your turn
<pleia2> over the weekend I sent a mail to -devel asking for some review of the website content
<charlie-tca> Yeah! 
<charlie-tca> We are gaining
<charlie-tca> We do need some marketing help still. As Ubuntu builds Unity, we are picking up a lot of users
<pleia2> I've completed a basic review, but if others with expertise in the other areas could make sure the information is accurate linked from http://xubuntu.org/contribute it would be great
<knome> should check that later that week
<pleia2> I haven't gotten the page up for displaying our logos for people to use in marketing, I'll add that to my todo list now
<pleia2> knome: any updates on our wp theme?
<knome> no, not right now
<knome> but the picslider is a wordpress plugin now
<knome> you can see it in action in http://shimmerproject.org/project/albatross/
<knome> (you can even ry to navigate the images)
<knome> *try
<pleia2> knome: is the plugin hosted online somewhere?
<pleia2> we can submit it for review by canonical if it's ready while we finish the rest of the theme
<knome> pleia2, not yet, i'm still doing a few modifications to it
<knome> actually, i'm working with it right now
<pleia2> ok :)
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I think that's all we've got
<charlie-tca> Okay, everybody please review the website for content
<charlie-tca> Let's stay on top of this website change, too. The sooner we get things in for approval, the sooner we get operational
<charlie-tca> Any questions for website?
<charlie-tca> TOPIC - Artwork
<charlie-tca> ochosi: you get to be here today?
<ochosi> yep
<ochosi> so, basically the "big news" is that i think we settled on a new scrollbar style
<ochosi> at least for now
<ochosi> we went through several iterations
<ochosi> and i fixed it insofar that firefox and libreoffice work with it now
<ochosi> we dropped the scrollbar-arrows (at least visually)
<ochosi> other than that, not many changes to be honest, mainly cleaning up behind the changes we did during the last few weeks
<ochosi> feedback has been ok so far, but there could be more
<ochosi> so feel free to test
<charlie-tca> Feedback seems to be directly to connected to what is hated most?
<ochosi> hm, up to now it was mainly feedback about the scrollbar
<ochosi> but actually i think it has become positive (from sceptic in the beginning)
<charlie-tca> Please, if you can test the new theme, do so. It is fully testable in Natty, right?
<ochosi> yep
<charlie-tca> You don't even have to install oneiric yet, so let's get some feedback on this new scrollbar.
<charlie-tca> Any questions ?
<Mandrew> hope i dont intrude. but if you drop me a link to the new theme im glad to be testing it
<ochosi> Mandrew: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
<charlie-tca> anyone else?
<charlie-tca> Mandrew: thanks for testing the theme.
<Mandrew> no thank you ;)
<charlie-tca> TOPIC - Documentation
<charlie-tca> This is one of the areas that appears the weakest for us. 
<charlie-tca> We had a person in that was looking into the wiki, is he here?
<charlie-tca> well, okay then
<charlie-tca> TOPIC - Announcements
<charlie-tca> That favorite subject is back again... Team Reports are due for June
<charlie-tca> These can be updated by anyone, not just a select few.
<charlie-tca> Just go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<charlie-tca> click on the edit link for this month, and add your updates.
<charlie-tca> We do a lot of work in Xubuntu, and this is how we get credit for it and track a lot of it.
<charlie-tca> Important dates coming rapidly:
<charlie-tca> Debian Import Freeze: June 30
<charlie-tca> 10.04.3 Freeze: June 30
<charlie-tca> Oneiric Alpha 2: July 7
<charlie-tca> We will need a new release for alpha2, and it should give the changes to default apps if we can.
<charlie-tca> We can include the most critical bugs from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot
<charlie-tca> We are trying to track things for the release notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/OneiricOcelot/AlphaNotes
<charlie-tca> Any questions?
<charlie-tca> TOPIC - Any Other Business 
<charlie-tca> Anything else we need to discuss? Anything we missed?
<charlie-tca> oh, yes
<jarnos> I missed a lot, I suppose.
<charlie-tca> knome is now an IRC op in #xubuntu-devel
<charlie-tca> jarnos: yes, we are almost finished, but there will be minutes posted to the wiki and ML's
<jarnos> Did you chat about themes/style
<charlie-tca> A little, yes. Did you have something specific in mind?
<jarnos> Well, I have survived by one panel with many releases.
<jarnos> Even with small screen 1024x600.
<knome> and?
<charlie-tca> So, launchers only on the bottom panel make it much easier to remove?
<jarnos> Well, I think it would be worth thinking, if everything a default user needs can be in one panel. By the way, 
<jarnos> In Natty there are many new panel elements.
<Mandrew> i like the two panels that you guys have now:)
<charlie-tca> In natty, we switched to Xfce 4.8, and that affected most of the components
<charlie-tca> The panels were a complete re-write for Xfce, so it was a good opportunity to change them
<jarnos> Mandrew, sometimes the autoshown bottom panel can be on way, if you e.g. scroll.
<jarnos> Inicator plugin takes unneccessary lot panel space.
<charlie-tca> It has never gotten in my way, even scrolling. We do have full size scroll areas, which helps
<charlie-tca> What is in indicator panel that would not be on the panel in the notification area?
<jarnos> charlie-tca, if you are careful, you don't accidentally unhide the panel.
<jarnos> charlie-tca, well, I need currently only network manager, but it has volume control and that letter box and a lot of empty space in between.
<charlie-tca> but that is you, personally.
<jarnos> charlie-tca, volume control can be handled to some extent by conventional mixer in panel.
<charlie-tca> Most of the users really prefer the mixer, and having the chat application.
<charlie-tca> the mixer takes the same space, whether in notification area or indicator panel
<charlie-tca> it is just a speaker icon
<jarnos> charlie-tca, no, there is a lot of space between the icons in the indicator plugin.
<charlie-tca> Truth be told, looking at my 11.04 and 10.04 side by side at the same resolution, it took more space for network manager applet and mixer in 10.04
<jarnos> indicator plugin does not offer configuration
<Mandrew> charlie-tca, i think he says that there is a lot of space between the icons
<charlie-tca> We must always look at the overall user experience, not a single user. Every user is free to change the defaults
<charlie-tca> Mandrew: I know, but 10.04 without indicator panel used more space than indicators do
<Mandrew> i like that it makes it airy so to say
<charlie-tca> You can remove indicator  plugin and use the notification area instead. 
<jarnos> charlie-tca, when I removed the indicator plugin, I didn't get network manager in the notification area.
<charlie-tca> I think you are correct. Ubuntu has tied network manager to indicators.
<charlie-tca> And they may even tie more to them. We are not going to rebuild every app to undo what they do.
<charlie-tca> Again, as a individual, you are allowed to make changes that fit your work style.
<jarnos> By the way, wouldn't Switch user be a nice default item in panel? Without it you can switch, it you lock screen and make a new login, though.
<jarnos> I wonder why it is not in the session menu.
<charlie-tca> Won't that take even more room in the panel?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: what do you think of adding the user switcher plugin to the panel by default?
<jarnos> No, if it is in Session Menu, which itself may take a lot of space depending on your user name.
<charlie-tca> Not sure we can add to the session menu, anyone know the answer?
<jarnos> Is there any sense of keeping both Session Menu and Log Out Dialog?
<charlie-tca> huh?
<Unit193> I'm now here and read up :/
<charlie-tca> by default you don't have both
<jarnos> If I remember right, Ubuntu had switch user in it before.
<charlie-tca> Default is now session menu. If you have both, you probably should delete the old ~/.config and ~/.cache and rebuild things
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu doesn't use the xfce session menu, it uses gnome stuff, which is different
<charlie-tca> So, not having an answer, and having taken the allotted hour for this now, we could pursue this better on the Mailing List
<charlie-tca> I want to thank everyone for participating in the weekly meeting. Your participation is important to us!
<Mandrew> i can logout under my name in the right corner and in the bottom of my "start menu", and i have a fresh install
<charlie-tca> The next meeting will be Sunday, July 3rd, at 22:00 UTC.
<charlie-tca> Let's go update Team Reports!
<charlie-tca> Mandrew: that's different
<Mandrew> ok
<charlie-tca> log out dialog is a quit button
<charlie-tca> which the session menu replaced
<charlie-tca> You can see the log out dialogs by using right-click on the panel, panel, logout
<charlie-tca> which is a builtin for Xfce
<Mandrew> ok cool
<charlie-tca> ENDMEETING
<charlie-tca> Now, I need help...
<charlie-tca> Anyone know how to make the Evoluent Vertical Mouse work with a ps/2 adapter?
<Mandrew> i would have a look in #ubuntu cuz its really alot of ppl there, but dont say your running xubuntu it might get nasty :(
<charlie-tca> I never go in there 
<charlie-tca> I can always a third keyboard to my desk, so I can bypass the kvm swithc
<charlie-tca> s/swithc/switch
<Mandrew> ok
<Mandrew> charlie-tca, what is the tips and tricks part in this menu?    http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/fi6np6l7/1_007.png
<charlie-tca> It's a tip that appears every time you login. They change each time, going through them at random
<charlie-tca> They are tips for Xfce
<Mandrew> ok cool i might just add that to the start then
<charlie-tca> Most of them are valid for us, but there will be a couple that don't apply
<Mandrew> ok
<charlie-tca> yeah, it is just one more thing to close though
<Mandrew> could be useful as a new user of xfce ;) 
<Mandrew> ill try it and if i get enough its just to remove it
<Mandrew> i posted you question in ubuntu but there is no reply, so i guess no one in there right now knows
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<Mandrew> np ;)
<charlie-tca> I guess I can make the server headless, too. Then I won't need the third keyboard
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i've never used the user-switcher before tbh
<ochosi> i'll install it and have a look
<ochosi> charlie-tca: there are a few problems with that as far as i can see. the main problem is that it's an indicator, not a panel-plugin, which means we can't freely place it where we want (meaning that item will land anywhere among the other indicators installed)
<orngjce223> I'm still in lucid and the panel-plugin user-switcher is in the package "xfswitch-plugin"
<orngjce223> Not sure if it still exists in newer versions but it's there
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> thanks orngjce223, i'll try that one as well
<ochosi> but anyway, it sounded a bit like they wanted indicator-session, because it includes user-switching and stuff from the session-menu
<orngjce223> ...Not that it works on my system
<ochosi> what doesn't work?
<orngjce223> user switching
<ochosi> oh
<orngjce223> But that's why I'm going to install natty, fresh, on another partition
<ochosi> just tested it, works for me
<orngjce223> see if the bug's still there
<orngjce223> Meh
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> but anyway, it's a rather fugly plugin if you ask me
<ochosi> only a button with an icon and no options at all
<orngjce223> Could be specific to "hi I have a lowlatency kernel and a bunch of really contrived audio settings"
<orngjce223> I dunno
<ochosi> hm, prolly, dunno
<orngjce223> If I had to put money on it I'd say more likely to be the audio fault
<ochosi> i think having the user-switching as an item in the session-menu plugin would make more sense than this tiny launcher
<orngjce223> the lowlatency kernel does nothing interesting by itself honestly, only when it's called by a program that's aware
<orngjce223> But yeah
<orngjce223> Meh
<charlie-tca> ochosi: thanks for looking at it
<ochosi> no problem
<ochosi> i think that the user-switching should either go in the session menu or not into the panel, at least wrt how things are atm
<charlie-tca> yup, jarnos wanted it in session menu, but I don't think we can tell it where to go in those terms
<ochosi> well, we can file a feature request
<ochosi> it's not a bad idea
<charlie-tca> I have told it a couple of times "where to go", but never there
<ochosi> same goes for locking the screen
<charlie-tca> Well, personally, I think if people want all the pretties and functions of Ubuntu, they should have installed Ubuntu
<ochosi> that's true in a wa
<ochosi> y
<ochosi> though i think as long as a request is meaningful i wouldn't drop it just because ubuntu has it
<charlie-tca> No, but I get tired of hearing "Ubuntu does it"
<ochosi> sure
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-28
<GridCube> ochosi is not here correct? but he reads later? i have a question regarding greybird, on xfce4-terminal the bars look different http://imagebin.org/160337
<GridCube> i don't know if this is intented or not
<charlie-tca> GridCube: yes, just leave your question here, ochosi will read the backlog, if you start with his nick
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> Most of us will check the backlog, if addressed specifically
<GridCube> :D ok
<GridCube> thats why i choosed to post, because else i would forgot about it
<Unit193> charlie-tca, et all: I know this is kind of out there, what would be the chance of using PCManFM? (as alt or default) as it has some really nice features over Thunar
<mr_pouit> when we change thunar for pcmanfm we'll also rename xubuntu to lubuntu
<mr_pouit> oh, wait
<mr_pouit> so, zero chance ;-)
<Unit193> I didn't think there was, it's just got a few features I'm looking for (But if we can add them ;) )
<Unit193> I should probably say that I was looking at having the address bar and a menu option to open as root or in terminal...
<mr_pouit> Unit193: you can "open a terminal here" in the context menu
<mr_pouit> so you can also add a smilar action for "open as root"
<Unit193> mr_pouit: Oddly, when I use gigolo to open a folder, I don't have the terminal option anymore (And I can cd to it with the same user)
<Unit193> Anywho, it's almost 5am and I still need some sleep
<charlie-tca> Anyone testing the images today/yesterday should be updating the chart, please. http://2tu.us/3dmh
<GridCube> :D testing alternate x86
<charlie-tca> Lost the Xubuntu session on the images again
<charlie-tca> it goes to Xfce session even if Xubuntu session is selected
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ^ ^ 
<GridCube> charlie-tca, what's the default media player on 11.04/10? parole?
<charlie-tca> parole
<charlie-tca> and gmusicbrowser
<GridCube> is there a ppa for it to 10.04?
<GridCube> im searching for it, its just that exaile doesnt let me save music lists on m3u or lst, or whatever, and audacious doesnt allow drag and drop, for now i just love Decibel-audio-player, but then again it neither understand lists
<charlie-tca> No, I don't believe there is
<charlie-tca> Why are you running 10.04?
<charlie-tca> upgrade to something better?
<GridCube> XD jeje, parole and probation administration > ppa 
<GridCube> because its lts?
<charlie-tca> Ah, then you get to put up with LTS not having parole ;)
<GridCube> and because i have installed it a week before 11.04 went live and i did not feel like changing it
<GridCube> had*
<charlie-tca> I think it was very unstable at that point in time
<charlie-tca> We put parole in 10.10, too
<charlie-tca> But I don't think it was ready for use in 10.04
<GridCube> mmm does it use media lists?
<charlie-tca> I have no idea. I don't do enough with music to know much 
<charlie-tca> I seem to watch a video every six months, though. I also play at least one song on one cd every six months
<GridCube> XD
<charlie-tca> Sometimes I even play cd's for beta testing
<GridCube> we do listen lots of music, my brother and I, so we like to have our lists
<GridCube> D: oh great the update manager is updating the kernel
<GridCube> shouldn't that be on the latest image? the latest kernel?
<ochosi> GridCube: about the terminal, it's funny you asked that because i just commited a few changes to the terminal style
<ochosi> and yes, i'm aware of the tab-problem
<ochosi> but i'm not sure it's really solvable in a satisfactory way
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> yes i was about to say that too, the alt-tab looks funny
<ochosi> alt-tab?
<ochosi> you mean the window-switcher?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> i guess
<ochosi> how does it look funny?
<GridCube> screenshoting
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/160417
<ochosi> i mean i know how it looks, but in what respect funny?
<GridCube> its not in the same grey style, its kind of violet or something
<GridCube> which is weird
<ochosi> it's greyblue or something, yes
<ochosi> it's similar to the selection-style
<ochosi> so not really entirely random
<ochosi> but since we changed the selection-style, i might change that as well
<ochosi> maybe darken it to black
<ochosi> but i'm not entirely sure
<GridCube> selection.. i see
<ochosi> if you wanna see what dark looks like you can check elementary's gtk, i did their window-switcher in black
<ochosi> GridCube: i'm also still considering a black panel, at least for personal use: http://imagebin.org/160421
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i guess you're not a fan of that screenshot ^ , hm? ;)
<GridCube> oh, the terminal bars are desinged to be used whit a black terminal XD
<GridCube> i understend now
<GridCube> thats why it looked weird
<ochosi> yeah, i fixed the scrollbars
<ochosi> but i didn't fix the tab/notebook-style of the terms yet
<GridCube> i was wondering if it could be made it to be all grey in the same style than the rest of the window :^P
<ochosi> what could be made grey?
<ochosi> the terminal?
<GridCube> the terminal yes
<ochosi> hm, not sure grey would look very nice
<ochosi> i think it would look rather insensitive
<GridCube> in the same grey degradÃ©
<ochosi> because usually you don't write into the grey area
<ochosi> or "background-area"
<GridCube> true that
<ochosi> we considered white/bright a while ago
<ochosi> but never pulled it off
<GridCube> no i understend now, the bar is meant to be used whit a black terminal, if you change it to other color it wont work
<ochosi> obviously the scrollbar would have to be changed as well, yeah
<ochosi> but that's not really a big deal tbh
<ochosi> more a question of what we want
<GridCube> cant it dinamycally change whit the main color choosed?
<GridCube> thats ridicully complex, nevermind
<ochosi> i don't think that's possible in gtk2 at all
<ochosi> but they planned stuff like that for gtk3
<ochosi> e.g. the icons in the gnome-panel (symbolic icons) change with the bg-color
<ochosi> that's why they have to be svg and monochrome
<GridCube> i see
<GridCube> then why don't just make it like the rest of the system?
<GridCube> its funny that that only bar is different
<ochosi> i wanted it to blend in with the terminal
<GridCube> i see
<ochosi> in the older greybird it made even more sense
<ochosi> because the scrollbar always blended in
<ochosi> and i guess another reason was "because i can" :)
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> ok it was my faul for changing the terminal colors :P
<ochosi> ;)
<ochosi> that's problematic, i know
<ochosi> i at first wanted to change the term bg-color to white
<ochosi> but many people opposed, so we ended up keeping what we had
<GridCube> i propose orange whit green font
<GridCube> XD
<ochosi> lol
<GridCube> charlie-tca, after the update of today's image the trash folder icon from the desktop dissapeared, don't know if thats important
<ochosi> bbl
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> ochosi: if you want black panels, why aren't you modifying bluebird, which had them, instead of something that did not start dark
<charlie-tca> greybird was supposed to be lighter, not a match for dark themes
<charlie-tca> GridCube: don't know anything about a trash can, I don't have one in Oneiric, didn't know we should have one. I kind of don't like having it, though
<knome> charlie-tca, i agree with ochosi that a darker panel does look better in greybird as well. i don't see this issue as changing the direction of the theme, only an improvement to the current style.
<charlie-tca> Well, I guess I can go back to clearlooks then. I can't use black panels anymore then I can use white text on black background
<charlie-tca> The darker the panel, the lower the accessibility level goes
<knome> i thought ochosi asked you if the latest version was fine, and you said yes?
<charlie-tca> discussion here earlier today, thinking about making panels black
<knome> well, i don't agree making the panels *black*
<charlie-tca> 11:45:24      ochosi | GridCube: i'm also still considering a     
<charlie-tca>                      | black panel, at least for personal use:    
<charlie-tca>                      | http://imagebin.org/160421                 
<charlie-tca> 11:49:35      ochosi | charlie-tca: i guess you're not a fan of   
<charlie-tca>                      | that screenshot ^ , hm? ;)                 
<knome> "at least for personal use"
<knome> answer to "why not edit bluebird": he probably likes greybird more :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: this panel was/is just for fun, so no worries, didn't commit it or anything
<charlie-tca> okay, no black backgrounds anywhere?
<ochosi> nope
 * charlie-tca relaxes again
<ochosi> the only thing i'm thinking about atm is darkening the window-switcher (alt+tab) a bit
 * charlie-tca must now to kick the heart again, make it calm down
<ochosi> don't worry too much, i hardly do anything dramatic or drastic without talking to people ;)
<charlie-tca> That is true. 
<knome> ochosi, except when our plan to take over the world is finished, and we will instantly change everything to black-on-black
<knome> OOPS
<charlie-tca> hm, I guess black on black has not hurt my eyes when I see it
 * charlie-tca sees it often when testing these new oneiric images :)
<ochosi> hehe
<charlie-tca> By the way, I found a way to consistently crash midori in Oneiric. Just use any extensions with it :(
<dtchen> yikes. Is it in an existing user account and/or a new one?
<charlie-tca> new
<charlie-tca> bug 801837
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 801837 in midori (Ubuntu) "midori crashed with signal 7 in webkit_web_view_get_resource()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801837
<charlie-tca> Something in webkit, I think
<micahg> \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-29
<mr_pouit> yay, I think I got rid of mono and libreoffice in the latest daily build
<mr_pouit> (down from 800M to 700)
<micahg> mr_pouit: ooh, cool, I was also going to suggest blocking update-manager from pulling in  gir1.2-unity-3.0 since we don't have unity
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ping
<mr_pouit> when I resynced some changes with ubuntu.oneiric, I added openoffice.org-hyphenation, and libreoffice help pack, so this was the reason =]
<mr_pouit> ochosi: pong
<knome> mr_pouit, he's gone
<mr_pouit> eh
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg : Oneiric 64bit desktop image, I am getting the xfce wallpaper in what appears to be a Xubuntu session
<charlie-tca> indicators are all missing, launcher panel is across the bottom and hidden, looks like ochosi's launchers
<charlie-tca> Verified that the menu is from us. Only the wallpaper is wrong
<charlie-tca> Now that is just *weird*
<charlie-tca> Wallpaper is defaulting to "xfce-stripes.png" 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: The above is true for all images
<charlie-tca> I remember what I forgot now. ALL TESTERS
<charlie-tca> Please remember to sync your images this weekend. Testing of the alpha2 images begins Tuesday/Wednesday next week
<charlie-tca> bug 799754 now high priority. We need the desktop session working if at all possible for Alpha2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799754 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please register lightdm.conf in the alternatives system" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799754
<mr_pouit> that's because xfconfd doesn't have the correct XDG_{CONFIG,DATA}_DIRS in its environment
<charlie-tca> Can we fix it?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: no bug on the wallpaper unless you want one
<mr_pouit> you can file one against xfconf, although I don't know where the issue exactly
<charlie-tca> Okay. It just started yesterday, so we know it is a this week thing
<charlie-tca> GridCube: fyi - the sessions after installing are Xubuntu, with the wrong wallpaper
<GridCube> :) good morning, okey, yesterday we had no xubuntu session, but the weird thing was that the desktop had the trashbin icon at first but after the kernel update it hanged and i rebooted the virtual machine and then just my ~/ and my "System" launchers where visible
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: mmh, instead of xfconf, file it against xubuntu-default-settings please
<mr_pouit> I think I know what happens
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: will do
<charlie-tca> GridCube: You still had all the launchers on the bottom panel?
<charlie-tca> Just trash went away?
<GridCube> yes just the trash, and the pseudo dock wasnt transparent
<charlie-tca> That may have been virtualbox itself then
<GridCube> oh
<charlie-tca> well, not the trashcan, but the panel thing
<GridCube> i think is because of the "no xubuntu session" thing
<charlie-tca> I was wrong about that. The session is Xubuntu, the wallpaper is not
<GridCube> no, i meant yesterday
<charlie-tca> Maybe
<mr_pouit> the session is xubuntu, xfconfd is just not aware of it :}
<charlie-tca> Neat!
<mr_pouit> because dbus is started before we set some env vars, so xfconfd doesn't get them
<GridCube> :/ ok booted again yesterday test box and the trash can is there again
<charlie-tca> GridCube: look in the menus on that one, see if gmusicbrowser is in multimedia
<charlie-tca> If it is, that is a Xubuntu session, with the wrong wallpaper and some other stuff
<mr_pouit> or open a term, and type: echo $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS
<mr_pouit> if there's no /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu in it, it's not the "xubuntu" session
<GridCube> yes, gmusicbrowser is there
<charlie-tca> try what mr_pouit just said, too
<GridCube> its there
<GridCube> ok i have to clean before i get killed
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: it does have xubuntu session in today's install
<charlie-tca> bug 803499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803499 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu session using wrong settings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803499
<mr_pouit> thanks
<charlie-tca> Thannk you!
<charlie-tca> hm, too small a partition gives a login loop
<charlie-tca> out of space on the drive, that is
<charlie-tca> and the user has no idea unless they can log in through a tty
<charlie-tca> All 64bit tests are up-to-date
<ochosi> mr_pouit: wanted to ask you for help with a widget (http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/tree/src/windowlist.c)
<astraljava> Just a heads-up for the team: Have been Ã¼ber-busy with the moving preparations, so haven't had time for any testing. Sorry about that!
<astraljava> I'll let you know when I get back on track.
<astraljava> If I get an apartment in the new town this week already, I should be able to return to testing in 1Â½ weeks.
<Unit193> I'm at a LoCo event and I'll be home soonish (already have it downloaded)
<charlie-tca> no problem, astraljava 
<charlie-tca> Next week is alpha2
<micahg> charlie-tca: and we should have an arm image :)
<charlie-tca> um, okay, can you find it anywhere?
<charlie-tca> I haven't been able to
<micahg> charlie-tca: not up yet, but soon :
<micahg> :)
<charlie-tca> I thought it would be out this week, but it isn't yet
<micahg> week isn't over yet ;)
<charlie-tca> true
<charlie-tca> They were going to push Lubuntu into cdimages first, I thought
<micahg> these will be SD images
<charlie-tca> They will be the right ones for you and cody-somerville, right?
<micahg> yep
<charlie-tca> okeydokey
<micahg> unfortunately, it's just a live image, no installer
<charlie-tca> really?
<charlie-tca> If it is based on our images, it won't work then. We don't have a valid live session yet
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> charlie-tca: well my testing will be quick then :)
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> yup
<micahg> I said maybe next cycle I can look into making the installer work
<charlie-tca> for us or armel?
<micahg> armel
<micahg> and us
<charlie-tca> Oh, okay
<charlie-tca> for us, we need it working for alpha2 if there is any way to.
<charlie-tca> Since the primary installation method is from the live desktop, it is kind of needed
<micahg> well, I can probably take a look on monday
<charlie-tca> We think it is https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/799754
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 799754 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please register lightdm.conf in the alternatives system" [High,Triaged]
<micahg> I can poke robert_ancell about it tomorrow
<charlie-tca> Okay, I poked the release team meeting last friday
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-30
<ochosi> hmm, alpha2 coming up, guess that means i'll install one-eye-rick
<knome> lol
<ochosi> pretty good timing because my greybird changes just started to come to an end
<ochosi> mr_pouit: anyhow, ping me back whenever you are. what i want is the "address" of the windowlist widget in xfdesktop, but i can't seem to figure it out (tried stuff like "widget_class "*XfceDesktop*GtkMenu*" but that didn't work)
<charlie-tca> Unit193: did you file a bug on the nautilus thing yesterday?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: No, I just noticed it in the updates and didn't really know what it came with
<charlie-tca> Okay, no problem
<Unit193> I didn't think it was that big of an issue, I wasn't even sure if I was supposed to put it in
<Unit193> It's great that the images are going down in size
<charlie-tca> little gains pay off 
<Unit193> Ummm... After running updates and rebooting, I get a Guest Account...
<Unit193> charlie-tca: The nautilus-data was still file-roller, nothing new
<charlie-tca> Oh, we are okay then. The OEM install is tricky. 
<charlie-tca> If you don't shutdown at the right point, it fails to work
<charlie-tca> That's why I put the "how to "  in the title rows
<Unit193> This isn't the OEM. On the 32 resize, I got a guest account that doesn't log in
<charlie-tca> oops
<charlie-tca> That would make it harder to use
<charlie-tca> How did you set it up?
<charlie-tca> did you use users and groups or encrypted?
<Unit193> I didn't add the guest account, it came with updates
<Unit193> *after updates reboot
<charlie-tca> oh, guest user
<Unit193> ...And Ubiquity is still in the System menu as "Install RELEASE"
<charlie-tca> Not sure that is valid
<charlie-tca> yeah, that one should already be reported
<charlie-tca> It was in alpha1
<Unit193> Crap.
<charlie-tca> sorry
<Unit193> I got the bad install... Gparted is also there (I'm not sure it's that's supposed to be removed after install)
<charlie-tca> So, any idea how to make my direct tv work again?
<charlie-tca> I don't know if gparted should go away or not
<charlie-tca> but, yes, it sounds like the install went badly
<Unit193> Can you walk me through the next part please?
<charlie-tca> which installation?
<charlie-tca> Is that an OEM install or resize?
<Unit193> 32bit Desktop Resize?
<charlie-tca> Should be same as any other, choose install from the menu
<charlie-tca> install side-by-side
<charlie-tca> when it finishes, restart the computer
<Unit193> OK, I should just reinstall?
<charlie-tca> Yeah, something went wrong. You can wait and do it tommorrow if you want. 
<charlie-tca> Unless you have a big partition left, you usually do a whole disk install in VBox, then do the resize
<charlie-tca> I start here with 12GB machines, so a resize gives two 6gb installs
<charlie-tca> and a resize from there on desktop will result in failed
<charlie-tca> since it really wants more than 4gb to work
<charlie-tca> alternate will resize a 5gb partition fine, though
<charlie-tca> Unit193: it is possible that the resize is bad right today, too
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Would an Entire be helpful?
<charlie-tca> sure. It makes sure that it is at least working
<charlie-tca> We have had weeks where the only partition we could do was whole disk, so yes, it is always helpful knowing that much works
<charlie-tca> well, I have to reboot to check a lightdm bug out
<Unit193> Is the info I put on the doc ok?
<charlie-tca> yes, perfect. You still have that session?
<Unit193> I was going to ask resize or OEM...
<Unit193> charlie-tca: OEM or Resize?
<charlie-tca> resize
<charlie-tca> I am wondering what the partition size it used was?
<charlie-tca> If it was smaller than 4GB, ubiquity does something stupid to make it fail
 * Unit193 boots and thinks it was 4.6
<Unit193> Er... The installer said it was going to be, but it's 3.74
<charlie-tca> Then it did something stupid and won't work
<charlie-tca> :)
<Unit193> You are not supposed to be able to resize the installer are you? http://i.imgur.com/mCyNz.png
<Unit193> I guess that was a case of "Replace user and press anykey"
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> you can grow and it shrink it some, just like any other window
<Unit193> That was default size for today and yesterday
<charlie-tca> you can also hold Alt and use left-mouse to move it around
<Unit193> Replace user = Adios? ;)
<charlie-tca> Yeah, it does grow and shrink on its own, too. It depends on who changes what in it
<charlie-tca> and, every Ubuntu change changes what we get
<charlie-tca> Okay, going play in the dirt pile now
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I just did an Entire and I'm still getting Ubiquity installed >_> (And gparted for that matter)
<Unit193> 9.7G this time!
#xubuntu-devel 2011-07-01
<charlie-tca> but it restarted, right?
<Unit193> Yep! Everything "works"
<charlie-tca> thanks for testing
<Unit193> Yep! Anything else I need to do with it?
<Unit193> Ah, I need to update doc
<charlie-tca> I will search out that ubiquity/gparted installed bug tomorrow
<Unit193> I don't need to file/search?
<charlie-tca> no, I will find it. I think I have it in a note here someplace
<Unit193> How about that? (Goodle Doc)
<charlie-tca> It's kind of screwed up bug name
<charlie-tca> oh, go ahead and update that one.
<Unit193> I did, I'm just asking if you like it
<charlie-tca> I like anything that says we did a test :)
<Unit193> Alright, boss!
<charlie-tca> That's a good writeup
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> hello
<charlie-tca> Hello, GridCube 
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: anything on bug 803499 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803499 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu session using wrong settings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803499
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: is bug 803519 messing things up for us?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803519 in apport (Ubuntu) "Use Unity as a registered XDG environment" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803519
<GridCube> doing today free software alternate test
<charlie-tca> It should work
<charlie-tca> That one you should follow the qa test case for, though
<GridCube> i am
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> this sunday is the community meeting?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<GridCube> i will try to assist
<Unit193> I don't need to keep the one from yesterday that has ubiquity installed?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> Things change every day or two. If it is still there monday, we need to report a new bug for that
<charlie-tca> The old one has been closed out
<Unit193> zsync doesn't download as fast as dta...
<charlie-tca> That's possible. It depends on your own computer
<Unit193> We are moving my sister today so it might be late when/if I do it (I really should still be able to). Same computer downloading
<charlie-tca> okay
<GridCube> mmm
<GridCube> i can't log in :/
<GridCube> oh... nevermind i forgot to put "xubuntu session"
<charlie-tca> heh, that makes it fail, doesn't it?
<charlie-tca> !info sunbird
<ubottu> Package sunbird does not exist in natty
<Unit193> That's odd...
<charlie-tca> nah, they discontinued it a while back
<GridCube> charlie-tca, :D the tests passed, but for the first time i get something weird a "guest user" on the log in options
<Unit193> GridCube: I had that yesterday
<GridCube> what does it do?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-07-02
<GridCube> oh it breaks things up
<GridCube> should i report a bug for that?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> Hopefully, it will start working soon
<GridCube> ok
 * GridCube from #xubuntu-es : xubuntu is very polished and cool
<Unit193> I got back about midnight, I don't think a test would help at this point :( (And I'm a little dead after helping moving...)
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I commented on bug 803499, it's also waiting for lightdm (I could also ship this file in xubuntu-default-settings, but it's better if it's in lightdm directly)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803499 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu session using wrong settings" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803499
<charlie-tca> Thanks.
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: no, bug 803519 doesn't affect us afaik
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803519 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Use Unity as a registered XDG environment" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803519
<charlie-tca> Okay, just wanted to make sure.
 * charlie-tca suspects Unity is making things harder for Xubuntu
<mr_pouit> it could affect xfce upstream though
<mr_pouit> e.g. if some xfce program uses OnlyShowIn=XFCE;GNOME;, unity folks might want that to be OnlyShowIn=XFCE;GNOME;Unity;
<charlie-tca> yeah
<charlie-tca> or they might change some of what we had changed, too. Some of the stuff was OnlyShowIn=GNOME and we had to add XFCE to them
<jarnos> Would anyone try this by latest development Xubuntu? http://askubuntu.com/questions/51514/internal-display-is-off-is-this-a-bug (note that you might need to change the display ids to match your hardware.)
<charlie-tca> What do you mean by try this? Wouldn't a person be required to have matching hardware to know if this works or not>?
<jarnos> charlie-tca, I don't know, if you can get the same result by different laptop. xrandr without arguments gives yo
<jarnos> u the names of outputs.
<charlie-tca> laptop hardware is very specific, normally. Even kernel fixes vary according to the revision of the laptop 
<mr_pouit> bah, that's an overly complicated script that does nothing really useful
<mr_pouit> he should check the randr output when both displays are enabled, and when the external display is off
<mr_pouit> maybe some modes are't available then
<jarnos> mr_pouit, well I use a different script by which I can change between laptop display, external display and extended desktop. If I changed the modes in certain order in Natty, it faild. Thus the test script. 
<mr_pouit> compare the output of "xrandr -q --verbose" between each step, and you'll see if a mode disappears or something
<jarnos> mr_pouit, both outputs have some current mode then, but laptop display is off. 
<mr_pouit> try to compare these mods then, maybe the frequency isn't the same when both displays are on, and the screen doesn't like it
 * jarnos added an important comment to the askubuntu.com page
<jarnos> mr_pouit, there is no such difference between the the steps.
<jarnos> Adding lines that turn off and on the external display before setting up extended desktop makes the script work.
<jarnos> That has to be before "xrandr --output $INT --auto;" at line 10
#xubuntu-devel 2011-07-03
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel at 22:00 UTC today. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 30 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
 * micahg waves to ChanServ 
<micahg> oops
 * micahg waves to tcf
 * micahg waves to charlie-tca 
 * charlie-tca thinks micahg is just waving a lot
 * micahg isn't happy, we lost indicator support
<charlie-tca> How?
<micahg> I think the latest round of indicator uploads
<charlie-tca> It left the fresh installs a while back, but I thought seb128 said we would have it until 12.04
<micahg> we're going to need it past that...
<charlie-tca> The only thing working all week was gtk indicators
<charlie-tca> Yeah, any gtk2 support required after oneiric releases will be on us.
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu will not support gtk2 in 12.40
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu will not support gtk2 in 12.04
<micahg> that's fine, but it will still be in universe
<micahg> and we can always upload a gtk2 indicator stack to universe if we want them
<charlie-tca> right
<TheSheep> I didn't like the indicator plugin anyways
<charlie-tca> TheSheep: +1
<TheSheep> it messed up my systray
<TheSheep> in magical ways
<charlie-tca> but it is the only way to get network manager to show in the panel now
<TheSheep> it shows fine for me
<TheSheep> once I uninstalled all the indicator crap
<micahg> did he kill non-inidicator support for that, I should ask tomorrow
<TheSheep> required relogging though
<charlie-tca> in oneiric?
<TheSheep> hmm, good question
 * TheSheep checks
<TheSheep> ah, no, still 11.04
<TheSheep> so you say it won't work in oneiric?
<charlie-tca> yup
<TheSheep> then I better not upgrade
<charlie-tca> it has been disabled outside of indicators
<TheSheep> madness
<TheSheep> sometimes I wonder if they do it on purpose
<ochosi> +1
<charlie-tca> This was done on purpose
<charlie-tca> Well, are we all here today?
<charlie-tca> At least the wiki is working this week
<charlie-tca> #STARTMEETING
<charlie-tca> Let's have a meeting!
<charlie-tca> The full agenda for the Xubuntu Community Meeting is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> Today's agenda is:
<charlie-tca> * Old business
<charlie-tca> * Team updates
<charlie-tca>   * Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca>   * Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca>   * Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca>   * Artwork
<charlie-tca>   * Documentation
<charlie-tca> * Announcements
<charlie-tca> * Governance structure
<charlie-tca> * Any Other Business
<charlie-tca> Under old business, I missed some of it last week, so it is on today's agenda
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old Business
<charlie-tca> 1.     Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU - Carried Forward
<charlie-tca> and carried forward again. If anyone has a chance to research this, please do so.
<charlie-tca> 2. micahg to find what Ubuntu-desktop does with java in restricted-extras
<charlie-tca> micahg: any progress?
<micahg> charlie-tca: nope, will try to find out soon
<charlie-tca> Carried forward then
<charlie-tca> 3. GridCube to begin a discussion on the Xubuntu-devel ML to find the "Top 10" FAQ items for Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> * https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-June/007836.html
<charlie-tca> This is started, if we don't get any input, I will have GridCube put together his best effort and we will publish it.
<charlie-tca> I think this is a great way to get users to look at the website
<charlie-tca> 4.     start ML discussion on panels, reviews of current panels, launchers on panels, etc
<charlie-tca> We haven't done this, have we?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: we still need this done, right?
<ochosi> yeah, i think we still need to
<ochosi> i think we should mainly ask for feedback on the current layout though
<ochosi> otherwise everyone will come and suggest his or her personal layout as "the best"
<charlie-tca> Okay. Do you want to send an email to ML or will I?
<charlie-tca> We could send to both -devel and -users, too
<ochosi> i can do it, but should it go to the users or dev?
<ochosi> ok, both is fine
<charlie-tca> It gives our users a chance to tell us what they like
<charlie-tca> carried forward, Action marked for ochosi
<TheSheep> or more likely, what they don't like
<charlie-tca> Team updates - Team Leads
<charlie-tca> Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca> got to have that too, TheSheep 
<charlie-tca> any other comments on the old business?
 * charlie-tca gets in a hurry sometimes and forgets others want to speak up
<charlie-tca> All right then, let's try to clear some of these things up this week
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: any news?
<mr_pouit> mmh, yep, merges/syncs from unstable done, and I don't think there are any left
<charlie-tca> Great! good job on that !
<mr_pouit> also, I did some cleanup to try to have the daily builds below 700M
<micahg> just smartbookmark-plugin, but waiting for the next Debian upload
<mr_pouit> indeed ;-)
<charlie-tca> That is working, too. Although desktop images are broken today
<charlie-tca> We are making terrific gains! Thanks for your hard efforts
<mr_pouit> yeah, there were libreoffice and mono in them, that was bad, and the reason to the huge size (800M)
<charlie-tca> ah
 * charlie-tca nods
<mr_pouit> so I didn't try to add new packages yet
<mr_pouit> (pavucontrol and pastebinit)
<charlie-tca> no problem
<mr_pouit> and we're waiting on some lightdm changes :p
<mr_pouit> maybe they'll be done for the next alpha
<ochosi> btw, can pavucontrol be opened from the soundmenu?
<mr_pouit> anyway, that's all I think
<mr_pouit> I'd say no
<charlie-tca> Good question, ochosi. I don't really know
<ochosi> cause atm with only pavucontrol installed the "sound preferences" item doesn't work (in natty)
<ochosi> xfce4-mixer works ok
<mr_pouit> yeah, it's either some gnome program, or xfce4-mxier
<mr_pouit> *mixer
<ochosi> meh
<mr_pouit> pavucontrol will only add an entry in the multimedia menu
<charlie-tca> I like mixer
<mr_pouit> *submenu
<micahg> we're still affected by some library transitions, but I think that's just extra space at this point, not breakage
<ochosi> mr_pouit: anything we can do about that?
<mr_pouit> ochosi: ask the developers of indicator-sound to try "pavucontrol" if nothing else if installed? ;>
<mr_pouit> I think it's harcoded, so it needs code changes
<ochosi> i see
<charlie-tca> It would be nice if we can get it in the sound preferences, however, Having it installed by default counts a lot, too
<mr_pouit> here's what is tried currently: "gnome-volume-control --page=applications", then "gnome-control-center sound", then "xfce4-mixer"
<mr_pouit> first found, first used
<charlie-tca> Any questions for mr_pouit or micahg in packaging and development?
<charlie-tca> micahg: any chance we can get them to add pavucontrol to that?
<micahg> well, if xfce4-mixer is there, I don't see why not
<charlie-tca> Let' s try then
<charlie-tca> Bug Triage & Testing
<micahg> but this type of stuff shouldn't be hardcoded in the first place
<charlie-tca> heh
<ochosi> +1
 * micahg wonders if there's xdg-sound...
<mr_pouit> yup, there's a "nice" list for the media players, they could have done something similar for the mixers
<charlie-tca> +1
<charlie-tca> Testing is going great this cycle. Even if we don't get every image and test everyday, there are enough tests being done to know when things break
<charlie-tca> I think we should be seeing a lot more bugs against oneiric, but it might be just me.
<charlie-tca> Any questions?
<charlie-tca> Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca> pleia2, knome, plantoschka :
<charlie-tca> any updates?
<charlie-tca> plantoschka: we need a news release for alpha2 this week. 
<charlie-tca> I will try to put together the release notes by Wednesday, since we release Thursday
<charlie-tca> Most of the information will be in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/OneiricOcelot/AlphaNotes and the team reports
<charlie-tca> The AlphaNotes page is not for public release, by the way
<charlie-tca> Questions?
<charlie-tca> Artwork
<charlie-tca> ochosi: your turn
<ochosi> hm, tbh there's not much
<ochosi> i fixed the checkboxes and radiobuttons to follow the new (brighter) style
<ochosi> and experimented with other colors
<ochosi> but that's about it
<knome> (wow, the meeting is *this* late!)
<ochosi> didn't get too much feedback on the theme, but what i got was positive
<charlie-tca> Yeah, Sunday 
<knome> mmh, and it's 1:30am ;)
<ochosi> any questions?
<knome> ++ for the changes i've seen
<charlie-tca> I like what the theme is doing, so far
<charlie-tca> Thanks for working on it
<mr_pouit> yes, the fixed checkboxes are nice
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> any suggestions or requests so far?
<charlie-tca> knome: anything on the website today?
<knome> not really. i'm hoping i'll have the energy to work on it next week
<knome> i've been working quite a lot with some WP plugins, though
<knome> the imgcapt plugin is now pretty much done, and i might need people to test it
<charlie-tca> we eagerly await that request
<knome> you can see that in action in http://shimmerproject.org/project/gmusicbrowser/
<ochosi> i think the imgcapt plugin should definitely be used for the x-website, it's pretty self-explanatory
<knome> okay, i'll try to set up a demo wp site up as soon as tomorrow, so you can try testing that, as well as the picslide plugin, as soon as i get some more work done with it
<charlie-tca> That's neat!
<knome> i'll write this in the invitation-to-test mail as well, but the feedback i need is: 1) is it easy to use 2) is there any features you'd like to be added
<knome> and maybe 1,5) if something is not easy, how can i make that better OR how can iu document it so that it becomes obvious to the user
<knome> anyway, the interface should be really so easy that even a child could use it
<charlie-tca> great! I agree that feedback about to fix the issues is important.
<knome> mmh
<knome> good
<charlie-tca> Thanks, knome 
<knome> no problem
<charlie-tca> any questions for knome?
<charlie-tca> TOPIC - Announcements
<charlie-tca> TeamReports need to be updated
<charlie-tca>         https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<charlie-tca> * Oneiric Alpha 2: July 7
<charlie-tca>  * Testing for Alpha2: July 5
<charlie-tca> The next meeting will be on Monday, 2011-07-11 at 19:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> TOPIC - Any Other Business
<charlie-tca> Anything else to be discussed?
<charlie-tca> I want to thank everyone for participation in this meeting. 
<charlie-tca> Participation will help Xubuntu grow!
<charlie-tca> and, if that is all, 
<charlie-tca> #ENDMEETING
<micahg> mr_pouit: so, I'm still going to work on the library transitions, we don't need the space ATM, but a larger cushion wouldn't hurt
<knome> charlie-tca, do we have a meeting bot, or are you just throwing in the commands just because? :)
<charlie-tca> I throw them there because it is easier to create the minutes
<knome> ok:)
<mr_pouit> micahg: ok, thanks. We've also two versions of python at the same time, but I'm not sure what's the plan
<knome> i think we could get the meeting bot here as well if we wanted
<charlie-tca> also, we can search the logs for MEETING and find it fast
<knome> sure
<micahg> mr_pouit: if we can help Debian along sufficiently to switch to 2.7 as default in unstable, I think we'll drop it this cycle, otherwise, early next cycle
<mr_pouit> last time I looked, it was python2.7 and 3.2 in the daily builds
<charlie-tca> If we get enough space, we could add some language packs back into the images
<micahg> oops
<micahg> mr_pouit: I meant drop 2.6 :)
<mr_pouit> ah, ok :p
<micahg> charlie-tca: there's work going on for localized CDs, idk if we need languages on the main ISO
<micahg> charlie-tca: ah, forgot to mention, Thunderbird is default in Ubuntu now :)
<charlie-tca> Are those going to be Ubuntu only cd's, or will they include all images?
<charlie-tca> I forgot about thunderbird, too
<micahg> charlie-tca: not sure I understand the question
<charlie-tca> When they create language specific cd's, will they include all images and flavours or will that be just Ubuntu images?
<charlie-tca> Last I heard, that will be for Ubuntu only. It will not include any other flavours
<micahg> true, but I think there might be a facility for us to do it ourselves
 * micahg steps away for errands
<plantoschka> charlie-tca> plantoschka: we need a news release for alpha2 this week. 
<plantoschka> i'll send you something tomorrow
<plantoschka> goin to bed now
<charlie-tca> Thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-25
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, sounds good
<hobgoblin> astraljava: hope this is what you were expecting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Short/HardwareProfile
<hobgoblin> crap :(
<hobgoblin> astraljava: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/HardwareProfile 
<astraljava> hobgoblin: Sweet, looks alright to me. Thanks!
<hobgoblin> just got to get them to delete the wrong one :(
<hobgoblin> but cool - glad to help :)
<ochosi> hi everyone
<ochosi> what did i miss over the weekend? :)
<hobgoblin> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hi hobgoblin 
<knome> so,
<knome> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ase3mbY6LZYodEtyOC03U0MxNnFYbUpKdlFkU3FHRlE
<knome> i gathered a spreadsheet of all the submissions to the ML about gmb so far
<knome> (don't worry, it's not giving out any personal info the people haven't sent to the ml theirself!)
<ochosi> hey knome 
<hobgoblin> :)
<knome> ochosi, so can you confirm you can play streams and podcasts with gmb?
<ochosi> knome: i can confirm that gmb doesn't have that feature (yet) :)
<knome> oh.
<knome> why did i think it had.
<ochosi> btw, announcement: i'll be away for all of august and probably ~half of july
<knome> ffft
<ochosi> "sometimes loses library on exit" > crash. we should ask for more info (although there have been many bugfixes between 12.04 version and git now)
<hobgoblin> knome: most of those feedbacks are basically - how do you use it ... 
<knome> hobgoblin, not really.
<ochosi> hobgoblin: excuse me, but "most"?
<knome> hobgoblin, a few
<hobgoblin> well the ones about having issues I meant :)
<hobgoblin> obviosuly the 'it's great' ones aren't :)
<knome> yes... but there are only a few of them too.
<ochosi> not even then it's most, half of them are about missing features (ipod,ubuntu-one,media-keys)
<hobgoblin> knome yep 
<knome> and tbh, those who i've marked "no experience" are useless
<ochosi> anyway, i see a lot of trouble with gtk3.6 on the horizon, that's why i wanted to announce i'll be away
<knome> and you can't really count them
<knome> because how do you know if it would have been okay for them if they just uninstall it?
<hobgoblin> I agree
<ochosi> we might have to push greybird-updates late in september as sru's or something
<knome> (i haven't marked those who said they tried it)
<knome> just the ones purging right away
<ochosi> also those that say they don't need a player with library-support are kinda useless
<hobgoblin> lol
<ochosi> because we said we want that (otherwise you can keep using parole)
<knome> is that's one of our requirements, yes
<knome> *if
<ochosi> i can send that link to upstream
<ochosi> upstream-gmb i mean
<knome> maybe later
<knome> i think we still have feedback coming
<ochosi> ok
<knome> and this is just condensed stuff anyway
<ochosi> yeah, but the condensed stuff is good
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> any ideas how to improve that spreadsheet?
<knome> should we try to do some formatting for those who aren't useful or so?
<ochosi> i think sorting them somehow would make sense
<knome> well, they're sorted chronologically now
<ochosi> sort them by "do you use gmb?"
<knome> which made most sense when creating the list ;)
<ochosi> and then put those that have "no xp with gmb" down at the bottom
<knome> and still does, if we maintain that
<ochosi> to some extent, but in the final evaluation, the time is a useless parameter imo
<knome> sure :P
<ochosi> s/time/time of submission/
<hobgoblin> I'd say there were 3 categories - never used it/tried it/used it 
<hobgoblin> any more sorting out will not be of much use I'd have thought - too many other variables
<ochosi> some color-coding might help as well
<knome> see sheet2
<hobgoblin> that makes more sense
<ochosi> knome: yeah, much better
<ochosi> knome: if you share it with me, i can create another sheet for "missing features"
<knome> ochosi, sure
<knome> ochosi, sent to simon@sp
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> seems like i still can't edit
<ochosi> oh wait, i guess i'm signed in with my other google-account
<ochosi> meh, mind to share it with s.s@gmail.com?
<knome> just tell me what that was again and i can add that too :P
<knome> ok
<knome> beiss?
<ochosi> otherwise i have to logout/login all the time
<ochosi> yup
<knome> added and rm'd @sp
<knome> not that it matters...
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> knome: .wav support? afaik gmb supports .wav fine (and what player wouldn't)
<knome> i thought the same. but i'm not the one sending that message...
<ochosi> yes i know, i just wanted to know whether there was more info in the email that would make it clearer
<knome> ochosi, look for the poster name, then find that from the -users archive
<knome> ochosi, that's why i posted the names
<ochosi> ok, compiled a shortlist of features
<ochosi> unfortunately many of them are known (at least by me)
<knome> mmh.
<ochosi> and i guess they won't get the quick and simple implementation
<knome> otoh, good that there isn't lots of bugs we don't know about
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> definitely
<ochosi> it's actually comforting to see that the quest for feedback didn't just return a shirtstorm :)
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> (usually only annoyed users care enough to send something)
<knome> agreed
<knome> though there was some really useless posts
<knome> "oh well i use vlc IT'S THE BESSSTTT"
<ochosi> ubuntu-one support won't come upstream, we'd have to do that ourselves
<knome> ...
<ochosi> knome: greybird-tabs-update: http://imagebin.org/217745
<ochosi> i also like these tab colors btw, what do you think? http://dribbble.com/shots/615066-Tabs
<knome> hmmh.
<knome> make the inactive tabs a bit lighter
<ochosi> you mean the bg?
<knome> i like the latter colors, but you are not quite there with the "new" variant
<knome> yes
<ochosi> i know i'm not, that was just something i stumbled upon after updating the tab-style
<ochosi> but yeah, i'll make them a bit lighter
<knome> :)
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-06252012-020224pm.php
<ochosi> our general bg color is a bit darker, so all the tab-bg is also a bit darker
<ochosi> or at least if we want tab-content to be brighter, i'd have to tweak all possible sub-items of tabs
<ochosi> anyway, off for lunch
<knome> bon appetit
<pjotr> Hello, I have a problem with spontaneous window movement in Xubuntu 12.04. Probably a bug.
<pjotr> Steps to reproduce:
<pjotr> - Start Mahjongg
<pjotr> - make the window somewhat bigger (don't maximize it)
<pjotr> - click anywhere on the grey task bar of Mahjongg
<pjotr> - click on the dark blue background in Mahjongg
<pjotr> In more than 25 % of the cases, this causes spontaneous weird window movements: the Mahjongg window almost entirely disappears in the lower right corner of my display, or is being dragged by mouse movements.
<pjotr> From other people I've heard similar reports about Gedit and Disk Utility, so it's not Mahjongg-related. The strange thing is: no similar problems in applications like Firefox and LibreOffice.
<pjotr> I have two questions:1. Can I work around this bug? 2. Against which package should I file this bug on Launchpad?
<ochosi> pjotr: there is already a bugreport
<ochosi> and i'm aware of it, it's gtk3 specific
<pjotr> ochosi: Thanks. Can I work around it somehow (hacking some settings file)?
<bluesabre_> ochosi: That particular bug is particularly annoying with multiple monitors (at least with NVIDIA drivers).
<ochosi> bluesabre_: yeah, i tried deactivating window-move on menubar-grab in gtk3, i don't think it really fixed the issue
<ochosi> astraljava: ping
<ochosi> madnick: ping
<madnick> ochosi: pong
<ochosi> madnick: hey! just wanted to ask you how it's going and whether friday is still a realistic goal
<bluesabre_> Not sure if the default audio player is still on the table, but the latest audacious alpha is quite nice and simplistic.  http://imagebin.org/217771
<bluesabre_> (and the Sound Menu artwork actually works
<bluesabre_> )
<madnick> ochosi: i'd say its realistic, if i run into some major problem ill come back to you :P
<ochosi> madnick: ok, good. just wanted to check in cause i'm back :)
<ochosi> bluesabre_: haven't really tried audacious in a while, does it have library management?
<bluesabre_> Sure does.
<hobgoblin> does it?
<ochosi> just asking cause it looks very playlist-based to me on that screenshot
<bluesabre_> Well, its basic
<bluesabre_> Not as featured as gmb
<hobgoblin> there is a library plugin - but I've got a bug on that - crashes with my library
<ochosi> mhm
<Sysi> as default app, I'd consider simplicity over features, music player vs. music library manager
<bluesabre_> It worked for me, just clicking on that search button lets you set your library
<ochosi> Sysi: the basic argument "pro library" was that if we just want a simplistic player we already have parole for that
<bluesabre_> http://imagebin.org/217772 (at bottom of side panel)
<ochosi> btw, the arrangement of buttons in the toolbar is somewhat weird
<ochosi> play,stop,prev,next ??
<bluesabre_> I agree.  I think I might offer some suggestions since its still in alpha
<ochosi> are you in touch with the devs?
<bluesabre_> Nope, not yet
<bluesabre_> :D
<bluesabre_> It has a PPA, so I thought I'd play with it
<ochosi> ok, first check how open they are :)
<Sysi> ochosi: having neither playlist or any kind of library is more lacky than simple
<ochosi> Sysi: parole has playlist-support
<bluesabre_> Everyone's not as open as the xubuntu-devel folks?  :O
<ochosi> (basic one at least)
<hobgoblin> bluesabre_: how big a music library is it searching? just for my sanity
<Sysi> ochosi: queue-like or library-like
<bluesabre_> 3 GB.  Somebody with a more impressive library might want to look into it
<hobgoblin> I did ... :( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious/+bug/932574
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932574 in audacious (Ubuntu) "audacious crashed with SIGSEGV in mpg123_info() Search Plugin fails" [Medium,Confirmed]
<bluesabre_> lol
<ochosi> Sysi: well you can drag stuff into the sidebar and it'll play it in that order (parole)
<Sysi> ochosi: but it's not saved when you close the app?
<hobgoblin> ochosi: I use parole if I'm after something quickly 
<ochosi> Sysi: it's a bit like winamp, it just doesn't remember your last playlist/state. you can open/save playlists in m3u format
<Sysi> well, audacious is exatly like winamp :P
<Sysi> I kinda like idea of unified media player now that I use vlc for music too, I wonder if there would be suitable frontend for mplayer, if we can include that to installation cd
<ochosi> Sysi: you can use mplayer as backend for gmusicbrowser ;)
<ochosi> (instead of gstreamer, which is currently the default because parole uses it as well)
<Sysi> (no, I don't like parole, bad support for subtitles)
<hobgoblin> bluesabre_: and it crashed again :)
<bluesabre_> Well, I guess that's out of the question for now then :)
<Sysi> gmb netbook could be really simple if shuffle was disabled by default, though so could shimmer desktop
<Sysi> how can disabling shuffle been made so difficult.. or I'm just really dumb when I failed to do it
<ochosi> Sysi: the shuffle-issue really strikes me, i'm a bit surprised by that. but i think we can easily change that with a new default setting
<ochosi> s/i think/i hope/ :)
<Sysi> I'll install GMB and try again
<ochosi> remove your .config/gmusicbrowser folder before you reinstall
<ochosi> or purge it
<ochosi> just to be sure you start with new settings
<ochosi> would be good to know what the shuffle-problem is exactly
<Sysi> yeah, did that
<Sysi> sauna break, real testing after that ->
<Sysi> first problem was that I couldn't see any music after adding it to library, I had to change to Simple list view and select "All genres" to see my library in songtree view too
<pleia2> yay, fix to bug 1016925 seems to have cured the alt installer :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016925 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "12.10 Alternate installer fails with libavformat53 unmet dependencies" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016925
<pleia2> no dailys link in ISO tracker today, how does this all work with alpha2 coming up?
<ochosi> hey pleia2 
<pleia2> g'day ochosi 
<pleia2> should I be submitting look-and-feel bugs, or do we just wait until gtk3 stuff settles?
<ochosi> i'd say rather submit it
<ochosi> then at least i've seen it all
<pleia2> ok :)
<ochosi> but it's not improbable that i won't work on them until some things in unico/gtk3 have been fixed
<hobgoblin> when alpha2 is there - what do we test it against - the short testcase - long one when it appears?
<GridCube> any test is good, the long test is better
<Sysi> ochosi: do you want long explanation about how shuffle can be confusing for new user without really giving any advantage as default setting?
<hobgoblin> GridCube: cheers
<ochosi> Sysi: no, just tell me what "shuffle" exactly means here
<Sysi> ochosi: songs are not played in order they are in list, they do that for me when using "Artist,Album,Title,Track"
<ochosi> Sysi: in what order are they played?
<Sysi> random, as far as I acn tell
<ochosi> the problem is: the user can change the sort-order anytime, but the play-order isn't synced with the sort-order
<ochosi> which can be really practical
<ochosi> so you can re-order your library visually but not change the way it's playing
<ochosi> obviously that can be confusing
<Sysi> I hardly get idea of that
<Sysi> most if any  players don't have those separately at all
<ochosi> i know
<Sysi> but well, with changing settings the way I did you can use GMB even if you don't know that.. I guess
<ochosi> unless the user clicks a column-header
<ochosi> but i totally agree with you, i think we should set that sort-order by default
<ochosi> just have to figure out how :)
<ochosi> the most robust one i know about is actually: folder,album,disc,track,filename
<ochosi> that also works (a bit) for stuff with broken/missing tags
<Sysi> I'd like to try what happens if I click column header but I'm afraid I can't undo that
<Sysi> actually nothing broke, it just fails(shuffles?) if tag's missing
<ochosi> thing is:
<ochosi> there are a few levels of sorting: there is "grouping" (by default we set it to album)
<ochosi> that could theoretically break if you sort by "song-title" (in songtree-view)
<ochosi> in songlist view, nothing will break
<ochosi> and by break i mean: you have to re-set the sort-order again by right-clicking the column header and setting it to whatever you had before
<Sysi> and that depends about play order settings? advanced features always bring advanced usability..
<Sysi> how are you supposed to control songtree view, since it's apparently needed to even see your library in default setup? is using search in simple list the only option?
<Sysi> I generally find listview nicer/simpler, just as an opinion
<ochosi> no wait, not sure what you mean with play order settings there
<ochosi> i'll quickly illustrate..
<Sysi> rightmost button under album cover
<ochosi> both menus shown at the same time (two separate screenshots merged): http://imagebin.org/217779
<ochosi> now the settings are in sync
<ochosi> so it'll play what you see
<Sysi> I think I understand..
<ochosi> now, this is what is complex for most users at first: http://imagebin.org/217780
<ochosi> after clicking the "title" column-header, everything is seemingly shuffled...
<ochosi> (when in fact it isn't, and the player still plays everything in the "normal" order)
<Sysi> well, it pretty much just works if you don't touch anything, which is my ubuntu-philosophy
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> that's not such a bad verdict imo
<Sysi> we just need good default sorting order
<ochosi> agreed
<ochosi> we can simply add a default sort-order and create a matching default play-order
<ochosi> so that at least ootb, it will be in sync
<Sysi> yeah
<ochosi> Sysi: would you be willing to test it?
<ochosi> (would involve re-purging gmb and installing from ppa)
<Sysi> doesn't sound too bad, I have a free week
<hobgoblin> I'll play around with it again as well 
 * hobgoblin has been following the conversation off and on here
<ochosi> Sysi, hobgoblin: ok, thanks, i'll let you know when the ppa is ready
<hobgoblin> ok
<Sysi> Artist,Album,Title,Track seems to work when sort-order is "click Album column header" too
<ochosi> Sysi: what do you mean exactly?
<Sysi> playing order is seemingly rational
<ochosi> mind to test with "path album disc track file" ?
<Sysi> not so good with random files with same artist
<ochosi> what about "path artist album disc track file" ?
<Sysi> mhm, it just won't work completely properly unless they're same, at least for first sorting items
<ochosi> humm, not sure i get it 100%, mind to show me screenshots of your results?
<Sysi> if at least first sorting property isn't same, visible sort-order and play-order donÃ¤t match (like you said already)
<ochosi> mhm
<Sysi> what's difference of Disk and Album in sortin options?
<ochosi> the disc is a different tag
<ochosi> an album can e.g. have 2 discs
<ochosi> (or even more)
<ochosi> currently we're displaying that like this: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-06252012-085711pm.php
<ochosi> (assuming the tags are set correctly)
<Sysi> I don't think I have anything tagged like that, though not sure
<ochosi> if you have an album with more than one disc/cd, you can quickly tag it and see :)
<ochosi> that's where the treeview is really handy
<Sysi> I'm trying to find nice playing+sorting order
<ochosi> i have the patch ready for setting a different play-order by default
<ochosi> i'll also set gmb to remember the last-playing song by default
<ochosi> so you go back to where you left off when you restart it
<Sysi> that's nice
<ochosi> there is even more stuff we can't potentially switch on by default
<ochosi> some people requested "scan/check library" by default on every startup
<ochosi> not sure that's so good though
<ochosi> it slows down startup...
<Sysi> it's easy to enable if you need it
<ochosi> yup, i'd say so too
<Sysi> you need to add songs to library manually anyway
<ochosi> yes, although i also fixed something there recently
<ochosi> before it was not added to the watched-folders list, only to the library
<ochosi> (if you used our default layout and settings > library > add music)
<Sysi> I think I hit that issue when I started
<ochosi> yes, it should be fixed in 12.10
<ochosi> (and in the ppa)
<Sysi> what would you think about using listview as default?
<ochosi> i wouldn't mind i think
<ochosi> i mean it also seems more fail-proof
<ochosi> because there is no group-order that would break when your music isn't tagged correctly
<Sysi> yeah, I just couldn't get one song to play when it should, so I just dragged it to where it should be :)
<Sysi> you should put some description about gmb:s working mechanismon faq or somewhere, it would help understaning it a lot
<ochosi> yes, i agree
<ochosi> would you want to help with that?
<Sysi> I could try to come up with something, though it's kinds of absurd consept to explain
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well, don't start with that
<ochosi> it shouldn't revolve around this particular issue
<ochosi> many people actually seem to do fine with gmb, at least we're not getting much bad feedback from those who use it
<Sysi> I'll call it "unique usage features"
<ochosi> just the normal step-by-step how to get your music in the player, play it etc
<Sysi> right
<Sysi> at least I'm now completely sold for GMB :P
<ochosi> and then at a later point we can get to the more complex stuff
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> nice
<Sysi> what should "Album" tab contain? it's empty for all my songs
<ochosi> it should contain all your albums
<ochosi> if your songs have albums in their tags
<ochosi> but it might depend on a filter
<ochosi> can you show me which tab you mean exactly?
<Sysi> one between Lyrics and Artist in sidepane
<ochosi> oh yes
<ochosi> that's also a wrong default setting i just corrected :(
<ochosi> go to settings > plugins > albuminfo and activate it
<ochosi> it's pretty nice, you can see album-reviews and infos and tag your albums on-the-fly by clicking the genre-labels in the tab
<Sysi> I can't see genre for some reason, even if I selected it in plugin settings
<ochosi> you might have to restart gmb for some of the settings to apply
<ochosi> (i think it says that in one of the tooltips)
<Sysi> didn't help, it shows some info but nothing about genre (on various songs)
<Sysi> well, I don't really need that anyway
<Sysi> gnome-mmkeys plugin isn't working, even if I have gnome-settings-daemon running
<ochosi> i'd recommend you to set them through the kb-shortcuts dialog anyway
<Sysi> do they work globally that way?
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> e.g. "gmusicbrowser -cmd NextSong"
<ochosi> "gmusicbrowser -cmd PlayPause"
<ochosi> one of my favorites is: "gmusicbrowser -cmd Quit -ifnotrunning nocmd"
<ochosi> (that starts gmb if it's not running and quits it when it's running)
<ochosi> also nice: "gmusicbrowser -cmd ShowHide"
<ochosi> (to minimize to tray and restore)
<Sysi> I found -listcmd after some trying
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> there are tons of things you can bind to custom keyboard-shortcuts
<Sysi> there is tons of everything in gmb
<ochosi> true
<ochosi> maybe we should set a few default shortcuts for playpause at least and stuff like that
<Sysi> shouldn't do any harm
<Sysi> volume control could be available somewhere besides equalizer, but that's minor tweaking
<ochosi> we decided to use the indicator-sound for that
<ochosi> so it's not present in the layout by default
<ochosi> you can use the scrollwheel on the trayicon though
<Sysi> it could be in settings, though that makes it minor; for when you want just statically change it
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> would be possible to pop up a window that shows volume and equalizer
<ochosi> actually it would just be a custom layout :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-26
<Zignd> Can someone help me?
<Zignd> Hello
<hobgoblin> astraljava: any idea when the alpha2 is going to make an appearance ?
<astraljava> Nope, but I'll ask soon-ish (meaning within a few hours).
<hobgoblin> no hurry :)
<astraljava> Well, sort of. It's supposed to be released on Thursday. ;)
<astraljava> Oh, but look! There they are. :)
<astraljava> pleia2_: Had time to look into /Long, yet? I was planning to write my call for testing of Alpha-2 this evening, meaning anything from an hour to 10. :)
<astraljava> pleia2_: I'll try to hack it a bit before I do, obviously, and ask for feedback from the channel before I send it out for the whole world to see, of course.
<astraljava> pleia2_: But if you had any ideas, feel free to send my way.
<astraljava> That ^^ of course goes for the rest of the bunch.
<astraljava> knome needn't bother. *smirk*
<hobgoblin> astraljava: so - testing alpha2 - test against what for testcases ?
<astraljava> hobgoblin: "Logical error: Unable to parse input."
<astraljava> Oh, wait, that wasn't a response to my lines just above?
<hobgoblin> well I have the short one - is there a long one - which sounds decidedly dodgy
<hobgoblin> oh sorry no lol - t'is a brand new question :)
<astraljava> Well we talked about it in Sunday's meeting, didn't we? It's under construction, still, and that's what I was really asking for, the feedback on how to modify it. I have ideas, and we have already discussed it with knome, for instance. But if someone wants some to send some input on it, still, then by all means, suggestions are welcome and will be considered while modifying.
<astraljava> Hehe. "...if someone wants to send any input on it..."
<hobgoblin> ok - I have link to the old long one - you want feedback on that? 
<astraljava> Yes, the in-progress one isn't online yet.
<hobgoblin> ok - well I'll do the alpha against that then 
<astraljava> Err... no, please.
<astraljava> Wait until the /Long testcase is published.
<hobgoblin> ok - suits me :)
<astraljava> It'll change, quite drastically, so we don't want data to be skewed by the outdated cases.
<hobgoblin> yep - understand
<astraljava> Thanks. So, if you have time, instead of testing just yet, please read the old Long case, and tell me your thoughts on it by your understanding of what we have talked about QA in the past few meetings and discussions on this channel.
<hobgoblin> okey doke 
<astraljava> Thoughts meaning what you'd like to remove/add/alter.
<astraljava> Oh, one more thing.
<astraljava> When you read it, try to keep in mind that the /Short case is a prerequirement.
<hobgoblin> yep - understood 
<astraljava> So a person doing that ought to have done /Short already.
<astraljava> Won't guide you further, I wanna see how well we've managed to get our ideas through to the "new" people. :)
<hobgoblin> so is the basic plan - boot with live - do the short then the long - then install - then do them again? 
<astraljava> I'd at least do the /Long only after installing, but wait a second, I'm not very level-headed at the moment (due to work, not mind-altering substances). *smirk*
<astraljava> Yeah, I'd add /Long as a direct continuation to the /Short, meaning it's Post-Install already at that point.
<hobgoblin> yep - ok - so boot - short - install - long 
<hobgoblin> that makes sense
<astraljava> Well part of /Short already has Post-Install items, so the correct order would be Load - Short (including install + post-install) - Long.
<hobgoblin> ok 
<hobgoblin> I'll read and write then for an hour or so :)
<astraljava> A *huge* thank-you!
<hobgoblin> :)
<astraljava> I know we talked about the mandatory - run-once thingie earlier, but I can't remember the outcome to that discussion, nor where we had it even. There may be changes coming to those, but let's have the alphas as they are, now. We can change for betas, then.
 * hobgoblin needs to find out how to delete wiki's I did the hardware one in the wrong place to start with ... should have had one more cuppa
<astraljava> hobgoblin: Why is it in a wrong place?
<astraljava> ochosi: Sorry, my man, I forgot you had pinged me! Wassup?
<hobgoblin> I did the first one in /testing/short/hardwareprofile ... there's the real one in /testing
<astraljava> Ahh... but you linked to the correct one on here, so it's cool. :)
<hobgoblin> yea :) eventually 
<ochosi> astraljava: i wanted to ask you how the weekend went display-dialog wise :)
<hobgoblin> astraljava: to me the long one look ok - the only things I would mention is 'ipod' should that be 'ipod' or some  usb player, hibernate I thought was not set up now 
<hobgoblin> personally I test arandr and multiple screens - but that's just for me 
 * ochosi sometimes wonders whether we should switch to faenza as icon-theme...
<astraljava> ochosi: Badly. Some schedule-pressing work took over, so I didn't get to it. Sorry...
<astraljava> hobgoblin: Thanks for the feedback, I'll keep that in mind while re-doing the case.
<ochosi> astraljava: okay, no problem. if we re-schedule, what would be a realistic date?
<astraljava> Alternate seems to be having a re-spin.
<astraljava> ochosi: This coming Sunday looks promising, for the other work's deadline is Saturday. :)
<ochosi> astraljava: ok :)
<ochosi> astraljava: keeping my fingers crossed then
<ochosi> astraljava: all in all we should probably set some kind of deadline for it, it also needs some testing and packaging and all, and iirc ubuntu's deadlines have become shorter...
<astraljava> ochosi: August 23rd
<astraljava> Beta
<astraljava>  FeatureFreeze
<astraljava> grr
<astraljava> But plenty of time, still.
<astraljava> Stupid HTML, can't the world live in plain text?!
<ochosi> astraljava: yeah, but "plenty of time" quickly converts into "time's up!"
<astraljava> Oh, don't I know it. :)
<astraljava> But there's a few deadlines I can still not keep. :)
<ochosi> sure ;)
<astraljava> But if we seriously set a deadline, how about 8th of July? Then it'd mean I'd have one full week worth of time that I can actually, really, dedicate to these issues.
<astraljava> week's*
<ochosi> astraljava: yeah, fine with me
<ochosi> astraljava: do you wanna write it down somewhere so we can follow up on it?
<astraljava> I don't know where to. Other than my own TODO list manager.
<ochosi> :}
<ochosi> blueprint or meeting-agenda?
<astraljava> Blueprints don't seem to have ETAs for work items, do they? But sure, next meeting agenda should have a point about it. When is the next meeting, btw.?
<astraljava> Tomorrow?!
<astraljava> But... but... how?!
<astraljava> Ahh... yes, I remember now. I remember how it started. It's the milestone week,
<ochosi> i thought we'd do bi-weekly meetings
<ochosi> but this week was an exception
<astraljava> (bonus points for anyone who recognizes that line)
<ochosi> so yeah, tomorrow should be a meeting
<astraljava> Yeah, actually last week's was the exception.
 * astraljava makes a mental note for checking the action points tonight
<ochosi> ok, true
<pleia2> astraljava: no, didn't get a chance to look through it all, sorry :\
<pleia2> astraljava: are /Long test things to count toward pass/fail? and if we have failures, do we not release alpha2?
 * pleia2 sends of /Long feedback and gets back to work
<xubuntu322> greetings from a dev of another distro
<xubuntu322> having installed Xubuntu today for a family member, there were some points I found lacking
<xubuntu322> if you'd like to discuss them, I posted the feedback to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12055812
<pleia2> xubuntu322: might be a better discussion for the mailing list so folks can reply when they're available (busy week here with alpha2 on Thursday)
<pleia2> as to some of the failures you're seeing during install, can you submit bugs so the devs can investigate?
<xubuntu322> pleia2: nothing failed visibly, only a ton of failures were logged in the (hidden by default) log
<xubuntu322> the installed system works as intended, as far as I can tell
<pleia2> xubuntu322: right, do you have a way to save that log so you can submit the bugs?
<xubuntu322> let me check whether the installer left it on the HD
<Sysi> there's a button to not connect to internet during installation, at least when opening installer after "try xubuntu without installing"
<ochosi> xubuntu322: just curious, what distro?
<Sysi> button being network managment applet
<xubuntu322> ochosi: tinycore
<GridCube> oh tinycore is awesome :D
<xubuntu322> Sysi: I went directly to the installer
<ochosi> xubuntu322: problem is that much of what you describe actually has to do with ubiquity (the installer) and therefore ubuntu, not xubuntu
<ochosi> xubuntu322: we just use that system, and we don't have enough devs to "cook our own soup"
<ochosi> xubuntu322: mostly the "WM crashed" bug is ours, we know about it but haven't fixed it yet (looking at you, astraljava :) )
<davmor2> xubuntu322: there is still a networking applet at the top in the bar that you can just select disconnect from the network, and there should be 2 check boxes one for restricted and one for updates you would need to uncheck both
<astraljava> ochosi: Oh? Am I supposed to fix a window manager crashing bug?
<ochosi> astraljava: no, that's the bug about the compositor being switched "on" in ubiquity/installer
<astraljava> Right.
<xubuntu322> davmor2: there was no top bar, see the "WM crashed" :)
<ochosi> davmor2: yes, in the direct-install mode there is no panel :( (at least not in xubuntu, i think that's another thing we could fix)
<ochosi> bbl
<davmor2> xubuntu322: ah that explains it then sorry
<xubuntu322> ok, I tarballed up the whole /var/log dir from that machine
<xubuntu322> which logs are from the installer?
<xubuntu322> the installer/ dir does not have the relevant log
<pleia2> probably want to look in syslog
<pleia2> and as ochosi said, most bugs will go against the ubiquity package
<davmor2> xubuntu322: if you are on that machine you can do ubuntu-bug ubiquity and that should upload all the required files to fix a fault note the should I've not needed to do that for a while :)
<xubuntu322> davmor2: already packed it up, sorry
<davmor2> xubuntu322: no worries then 
<xubuntu322> the full log was nowhere to be found
<xubuntu322> but at least parts of the warnings I was were from dpkg, a ton of "dpkg: regarding .../libpcre3_8.12-4_amd64.deb containing libpcre3, pre-dependency problem"
<xubuntu322> so it appears a cosmetic issue in dpkg/ubiquity interaction
<davmor2> xubuntu322: /var/log/installer/sys.log maybe or something like that 
<xubuntu322> ls installer/
<xubuntu322> initial-status.gz  media-info
<davmor2> davmor2@boromir:~$ ls /var/log/installer/
<davmor2> casper.log  debug  initial-status.gz  media-info  partman  syslog  version
<xubuntu322> I don't have those? Are they perhaps removed after X successful boots, etc?
<davmor2> might be part of the crash maybe
<davmor2> xubuntu322: nope they stay
<xubuntu322> the installer completed successfully, and the ext4 fs did not sound a warning on the first boot
<xubuntu322> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubiquity/ - ubiquity doesn't seem to accept bug reports?
<GridCube> xubuntu322: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect
<GridCube> and report it against ubiquity when it asks
<ochosi> some brainfood for all who think that audio-players should manage podcasts and streams as well: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/06/apple-podcasts-app/
<ochosi> (this is basically apple saying: our music app wasn't good enough in making podcasts etc accessible, and to my experience that is true)
<Unit193> So... Because Apple does it it must be true? ;P
<pleia2> he didn't say that
<pleia2> just something to consider
<Unit193> :D
<ochosi> i'm wondering how long until they cut itunes open and replace it with slimmer, more one-task-oriented apps
<pleia2> btw, reported after our QA meeting: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bug/1017207
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017207 in Ubuntu QA Website "Clarify what a "URL to the hardware profile" is in tracker" [Undecided,New]
<pleia2> so it looks like they're planning on linking it up with UF
<pleia2> started a draft on the site for alpha2 notes
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-27
<aj_quantal> Yay.
<astraljava> Hey guys, I've updated the long test case at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Long
<pleia2> astraljava: re: CPU "governer applet" - something where you can make adjustments to CPU, or just a monitor?
<astraljava> Please have a go at it, either edit it directly, or send feedback in here or the mailing list (I'll announce it on -devel in a minute).
<astraljava> pleia2: CPU, don't think it has to do with monitors at all.
<pleia2> I mean monitoring CPU
<pleia2> but you're saying there may have been an applet that didn't monitor, but instead allowed changes?
 * pleia2 writes envelopes to send out stickers
<astraljava> Did I say monitoring?
<astraljava> I meant governing.
<astraljava> Throttling.
<astraljava> Whatever there are for that.
<pleia2> gotcha
<astraljava> The CPU monitoring applet is there for sure.
<astraljava> Sorry for being vague.
 * astraljava needs to get ready to go to work, at least the office... ;
<astraljava> ;)
<pleia2> see you :)
<astraljava> I'll be back online in about 40 minutes or so.
<astraljava> o/
<astraljava> pleia2: You mentioned a draft for the release notes, can I find them somewhere?
<pleia2> astraljava: in xubuntu.org wordpress, have a login?
<pleia2> it's a draft post
<astraljava> Hrm... I don't think so, and I'm not seeing where I could sign up. :)
<pleia2> it's handled through launchpad, I'll check
<pleia2> ok, well the only thing it has is "Xfce 4.10" :)
<pleia2> so we can probably collaborate elsewhere
<pleia2> astraljava: mind a PM?
<pleia2> (see if we can get you set up)
 * pleia2 should go to bed soon
<astraljava> Heh... you really don't have to ask. :)
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> 21:06:43 -queuebot:#ubuntu-testing- Builds: Upgrade Xubuntu amd64 [Quantal Alpha 2] (20120627) has been added
<pleia2> in #ubuntu-testing!
<pleia2> muy useful :)
<astraljava> Well, it is. It's also on -release.
<hobgoblin> astraljava: of course what I meant to add to my - perhaps this for the testing long thing was - pidgin !!! I hate pidgin - I'd rather test xchat :p
<Unit193> Pidgin is good for IM, but not IRC.
<hobgoblin> :)
<hobgoblin> I'm old ... 
<astraljava> Yeah, come to think of it, is pidgin even the default app for IRC in the first place?
<astraljava> Can I test this somehow?
<Unit193> irc://irc.freenode.net/xubuntu ?
<astraljava> Right, I'll try that, thanks.
<hobgoblin> well tbird fails to let me setup my accounts :)
<astraljava> hobgoblin: Is this on 26th images? Please check if there's an existing bug, if not, please also file it.
<hobgoblin> ok
<astraljava> Ahh... it isn't associated with any app by default.
<astraljava> I actually think people would use xchat more than pidgin for IRC.
<astraljava> knome: Opinion?
<Unit193> astraljava: I don't care if they want to, they need to use xchat rather than pidgin.
<astraljava> *rolls eyes*
<astraljava> ;)
<hobgoblin> ok - so how do you change localisation - added some but then what?
<astraljava> Good question, lemme check.
<astraljava> ...and that case is very poorly worded, too.
<astraljava> hobgoblin: I didn't find any other way than logging out and choosing another language while at the greeter.
<hobgoblin> oh - ok :)
<astraljava> The list in Language Support kept having it as disabled even after the installation.
<astraljava> I don't know what _is_ the expected way.
<astraljava> I always use just the English that I install.
<hobgoblin> funnily enough - that's what I use too :)
<hobgoblin> astraljava, ok that worked - had no idea at all what the menu's said - but they were there :)
<astraljava> Yep, it works for me as well. I'm gonna edit the case and suggest doing that.
<hobgoblin> k
<hobgoblin> so the only oddity I got was with thunderbird
<hobgoblin> trying the resize one now 
<astraljava> Great, thanks!
<astraljava> I'm a little unsure what to type into that case. I suppose it's enough to check the desktop that the things in the UI are translated, we're really not wanting to check all applications here.
<hobgoblin> astraljava, thinking about the pidgin thing - the images that show during the install are of pidgin - so perhaps I would leave it - those of us that use irc clients - do so
<hobgoblin> yea I'd agree with that - unless someone is bi/tri/loads-lingual all they can do is see if things look foreign to them :)
<astraljava> That's right. And a good point re: pidgin. I'll leave it, then.
<hobgoblin> should installs testing check encryption - not seen that written anywhere?
<astraljava> Hmm... let's add that as a topic for tonight's meeting.
<hobgoblin> astraljava: so - the 64bit livecd is not asking to remove before reboot - old bug I've seen before - should I ry and find the number 
<astraljava> hobgoblin: Yep, sure. Thanks!
<hobgoblin> sigh :( you were supposed to say that's ok no need to spend hours trying to search launchpad for a bug :p
 * hobgoblin will let triage sort it out - already spent 30 minutes looking 
<knome> astraljava, while the irc-part of pidgin is not so good, pidgin is a good all-round IM client
<knome> astraljava, xchat doesn't do other IM
<ochosi> knome, astraljava, pleia2: sorry guys, i won't be able to attend today's meeting. (my gf has her state exam at the same time, i hope that's a good-enough excuse :) )
<ochosi> s/guys/gals'n'guys/
<hobgoblin> I'd let you off if I counted :)
<knome> heh..
<ochosi> hobgoblin: thanks, much appreciated :)
<knome> i'm not sure if i can either... but i'll try to.
<ochosi> quick artwork roundup: i've continued to improve greybird's gtk2 performance, new notebook-style etc.
<ochosi> testing and feedback would be appreciated
<astraljava> hobgoblin: You're actually expecting me to let you off easy? *pfft* This is no summer vacation camp. This is hard labour.
<ochosi> knome: what do you think of getting more high-quality themes into xubuntu?
<knome> ochosi, sounds good, but are there?
<knome> especially those which suppport both 2/3
<ochosi> knome: i recently started contacting people on deviantart to see whether they'd be willing to accept a few xfce-specific patches
<knome> aha
<astraljava> knome: Yeah, and like hob just mentioned, it's in the slideshow.
<knome> astraljava, that too. but changing the slideshow isn't too hard, really
<knome> astraljava, we should do that anyway.
<ochosi> knome: this one is a bit too close to greybird visually, but there are more "complete" themes like this: http://satya164.deviantart.com/#/d4nk24s
<knome> ochosi, in that case, just make a list of them and let's go through them someday
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i'll try
<knome> k, good
<astraljava> ochosi: Btw. if you'd like to see some UI-related tests (or just a description for appearance inspection), have at it on the /Long, it's not quite there yet, but it'll do for now.
<ochosi> knome: but personally, a pre-requisite for getting a theme in would be that the author continues to maintain it. i'm definitely not taking on more themes for maintenance :]
<hobgoblin> astraljava: nope - I expect hard labour - I did do 3 installs one after the other - but searching launchpad is for the foolhardy :p
<astraljava> Hehehe. :)
<knome> ochosi, yes, sounds sensible
<astraljava> Yeah I agree, it's sometimes frustrating.
<hobgoblin> and I gave up after almost an hour :(
<ochosi> knome: another thing i'd like to bring up in the next meeting/s: now that crt monitors are vanishing from the face of the earth, do we really need a screensaver by default? wouldn't a screen-locker suffice?
<astraljava> hobgoblin: That's alright, thanks for trying. :)
<knome> ochosi, will you just throw that in the meeting agenda?
<ochosi> astraljava: just read through the long test, where is the appearance part exactly?
<hobgoblin> astraljava: I know there's a bug out there as I've seen it on dev version release notes ... I'll let someone mark the dupe as such ... 
<astraljava> knome: Can you help me with getting to the wp of our website? princess tried to get my ubuntu SSO working on it, but we failed.
<astraljava> ochosi: No, you misunderstood. We're counting on _you_ to add it. :D
<knome> astraljava, will do. what do you need to do there?
<ochosi> astraljava: ah ok :)
<astraljava> ...if you'd like to have it, that is. :)
<astraljava> knome: Release notes, she said she added a draft there.
<astraljava> ochosi: Naturally you don't need to type it alone, but I'm at least very poorly suited for that line of work.
<ochosi> astraljava: ok, i added a few lines
<ochosi> astraljava: let me know what you think
<astraljava> ochosi: Yeah, I'm ok with that, as it's much more difficult to pin-point any better than you have already done. Thanks!
<ochosi> astraljava: ok, if you - in the course of testing - get to better formulations don't hesitate to replace/improve :)
<ochosi> bbl
<astraljava> Thanks, will do. Same goes for everyone, on every test as well.
<knome> i'm off now. will be back later today, and i'll try to make the meeting this time
<hobgoblin> 32 bit refuses to boot from usb for me 
<hobgoblin> not sure if it is a bug or just me - redid the thing 3 times 
<astraljava> hobgoblin: How does it refuse? Blank screen? Error messages?
<hobgoblin> blinking cursor in the top corner - nothing at all happens other than that 
<astraljava> Meh. Ok, file a bug, I'll verify in the evening when I get home.
<astraljava> Or... check if there's one already first. :)
<hobgoblin> :)
<hobgoblin> astraljava: I posted on the forum - see if anyone else has it before I start with bugs - but I just tried again after reburning the iso - still nothing for me
<astraljava> Alright, well, I'll verify during th evening. Make sure to paste the number here if you end up filing it, so I can mark 'affects me too' if it happens on my system as well.
<astraljava> knome: I'm afraid I'll have to pass on tonight's meeting, surprising engagements I cannot ignore. Rest of the team: If none of the leads (ochosi, knome, pleia2 nor mr_pouit) is available, make sure to post the minutes to the mailing list after the discussion. You can follow the agenda as best as you can.
 * micahg will have to miss another meeting, but will hopefully be back in sync for the following one
<hobgoblin> astraljava, you can forget all about our earlier conversation - seems bios was playing games with me here 
<ochosi> gotta go now, have a good meeting everyone!
 * hobgoblin is not doing 5 installs in one day again 
<pleia2> sorry I'm late
<pleia2> but it seems like no one was really around today :)
<hobgoblin> pleia2: it's still quiet :)
<pleia2> astraljava: put a link to your email on g+ and twitter
<knome> pleia2, hullo :)
<pleia2> hi knome!
<knome> what's up?
<pleia2> work work, the usual
<pleia2> knome: oh, how do we add someone to xubuntu.org blog? I tried to add astraljava last night, failed :)
<knome> pleia2, that wasn't xubuntu.org fail, that's LP openid fail (most probably)
<knome> pleia2, but the instructions:
<knome> pleia2, everybody in LP ~xubuntu-team has access to everything non-published
<knome> pleia2, everybody in LP ~xubuntu-website has access to everything
<knome> pleia2, you don't need to touch WP
<pleia2> oh
<pleia2> so I thought we had to add a user and then associate it with openid (it's what we do with fridge)
<pleia2> so astraljava should just be able to click "login" and it works
<knome> nope!
<knome> yes.
<pleia2> if not, maybe rt ticket?
<knome> he should, i tried to go through it with him today but it didn't work
<knome> yes, that's filed... :)
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> but yeah, no need to touch the WP users table
<pleia2> ok, so, release notes for tomorrow
<pleia2> anything aside from Xfce 4.10? 
<knome> i looked at the notes and that looks good.
<pleia2> gimp 2.8 is kind of a big deal, maybe mention that too
<knome> if you want...
<knome> :)
<knome> maybe add generally "new/updated versions of applications, such as..."
<pleia2> ok
<knome> because it's not just gimp that's updated ;)
<pleia2> ok, "Updated applications, including GIMP 4.8 and gThumb 3.0.1"
<pleia2> really not much else ;)
<astraljava> o/
<astraljava> Good day my fellow citizens, I don't mean to intrude...
<astraljava> knome: Am I to 1) file a ticket at rt.ubuntu.com, 2) ask about it on #canonical-sysadmin, AND 3) email about it to rt@ubuntu.com?
<astraljava> This is the most exhaustive issue resolution process I've ever heard thus far.
<pleia2> rt@ubuntu.com adds a ticket to rt.ubuntu.com, if they don't respond in 2 days, nag them in #canonical-sysadmin with the ticket number
<pleia2> but they've been better about responding lately, I don't usually need to go to #canonical-sysadmin anymore
<astraljava> Ahh, well then as I've already filed it on the website, the email is redundant, then?
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> just make sure you know the ticket number :)
<knome> astraljava, yes, just file a ticket and start nagging at #canonical-sysadmin right away
<astraljava> Well as I've already mentioned it on the channel, there's a record about it.
<knome> ^ the knome procedure
 * pleia2 sysadmin by day, no likely instant nagging
<pleia2> I'll get to the ticket! leave me alone! :)
<knome> well as you know, i won't...
<astraljava> I do support 20% of my time, so yeah, I don't feel like doing that either. :)
<astraljava> Anyone else done tests?
 * astraljava is likely to wake up early tomorrow morning and run the remaining ones.
<knome> good, then i don't have to do any :P
<Unit193> I'm all synced up, just have to see if that computer gets free so astraljava can yell at me.
 * pleia2 works on her Espanol while running /Long
<pleia2> "Confirm that the main menus and outputs in the desktop are translated."
<pleia2> the calendar is not :( what to report against?
<astraljava> orage?
<pleia2> k
<astraljava> I'm not sure, that's why the question mark.
<pleia2> I'll put it there and add it to the iso tracker, someone can reassign if needed
<astraljava> True.
<knome> i'd imagine it's orage
<pleia2> so is this a fail?
<astraljava> Yes. Localisation is a big thing.
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> I am a bug reporting machine today! (sorry)
<Unit193> Good! I hate reporting them.
<Unit193> Maybe I can just pull up your reports.
<pleia2> I'll link them all in the tracker, so they'll be easy to find
 * elfy didn't notice the calendar - never use the thing 
<pleia2> will take a few hours though, since I'm doing /Long throughout breaks in my work day ;)
<pleia2> oh, and doing this all on the Alt installer test
<knome> idi^Wweird^Wawesome!
<pleia2> I don't mind reporting bugs I know are bugs through a simple interface to friendly developers :)
 * pleia2 frowns at Debian
<knome> heh
 * Unit193 hates anything except apport pulling them up for me and doing all the work, then it's clear what package and what title as well as dupe.
<astraljava> pleia2: What, I was so glad when I heard LP has an email API for reporting bugs! :)
<pleia2> astraljava: I don't love having to consult a documentation page to remember how to submit or update a bug ;)
<astraljava> You're just not filing enough of them, then. :D
<knome> yes. please do more tests.
<pleia2> do we put the bugs that make the test fail in the "Critical" field?
<pleia2> yes, yes we do
<knome> hmm.
<knome> in that case, what isn't critical?
<knome> astraljava, again, please correct me
<knome> but i thought critical is "i can't finish the test"
<knome> because if there is even one bug that fails the test, and all those should be critical, why even have the "pass/fail" boxes
<astraljava> knome: Yes, I asked about this in the QA meeting last week, and balloons said they're probably going to remove the critical marking altogether.
<knome> because every test with a critical bug is fail
<knome> okay
<knome> makes sense
<astraljava> It does, yeah.
<knome> thanks for clarification
<astraljava> Sorry for forgetting to do that earlier.
<knome> np
<elfy> I'm still all at sea with this critical and not stuff - all I am sure of is that a failure to install grub so it boots should be 
<astraljava> elfy: Critical is pretty much everything that denies you from completing a testcase. It doesn't have to mean you couldn't do _other_ things, but if one case fails, then the test fails.
<pleia2x> I'm thinking for this Pidgin testing we want to tell people to use #xubuntu-devel rather than #xubuntu (long test)
<pleia2x> I am testing xubuntu!
<knome> pleia2, or -testing. i wouldn't want people come here and tell they're testing
<pleia2> I'm reserved about creating new channels, don't want it to become a dev-less echo chamber
<knome> me too.
<knome> or -offtopic?
<knome> i don't know.
<pleia2> yeah, maybe tell them to join -offtopic
<astraljava> Well, both current on-topic channels have problems for this particular case.
<astraljava> I don't have a good solution for this right now.
<Unit193> Just like the ubiquity slideshow, they normally don't need help, they just want to comment that it's cool they can talk as well as install, which isn't a bad thing, just isn't support.
<knome> testers should know about ontopic and offtopic though
<knome> they are already familiar with the community
<pleia2> the test specifically tells them to join #xubuntu
<knome> but if we then say to join #xubuntu, that isn't good either
<knome> pleia2, i know
<genii-around> Hm
<elfy> astraljava: thanks - think I've got it :) 
<elfy> I only actually failed one of those I did 
<Unit193> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dylanmccall/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/preview/xubuntu/slides/index.html#?controls no this.
<Unit193> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu&nick=xubuntu...&prompt=1
<astraljava> elfy: Cool. :)
<elfy> was a pretty big fail in my opinion 
<knome> what's the ops list for #x anyway?
<pleia2> /msg chanserv access #xubuntu list
<knome> yeah but
<knome> that's not current, is it?
<knome> the IRCC channel cleanup isn't done yet?
<pleia2> I don't know
<knome> or if it is, we need to continue doing stuff
<pleia2> https://launchpad.net/~irc-xubuntu-ops is the lp team
<knome> the factoid is now updated per the channel access list.
<pleia2> ok, done long with alt 64-bit, I don't think I'll really have time for more tests though :(
<knome> pleia2, thanks for doing that
<knome> brb
<astraljava> pleia2: Thanks very much for that! I'll wake up early to do a few of them before heading off to work.
<elfy> I can do a couple of 32bit alternates tomorrow - both the entire disk ones if it helps
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-28
<astraljava> Has anyone tracked the ISO size issue currently? I seem to recall seeing talk about this over on the vanilla side, but am unsure about the decisions. I suppose we're still wanting to get down to a size that fits a CD, right?
<micahg> Ubuntu is doing 800MB
<astraljava> Right. I just realized I had not realized this while sending the email to the lists, so nobody actually was able to burn it to a disk. I hope this didn't cause anyone to turn away from us.
<micahg> the flavors can do as they wish
<astraljava> Yeah. What's your opinion, is it too hard to do? Have things bloated up lately?
<micahg> I think Xubuntu is fine at 700MB
<micahg> although alpha2 is oversized
<micahg> so, whatever people want
<astraljava> I guess I'll add it to next meeting's agenda.
<micahg> we could probably get it down for alpha3 (although, we might have issues with 2 python, webkit, and gtk stacks)
<astraljava> ...and try to get some numbers for it.
<astraljava> Oh, right.
<astraljava> That'd be an easy... what, 25MB?
<astraljava> Well probably not that much.
<micahg> we can see about getting gtk3 versions of the webkit stuff maybe
<micahg> that's ~7MB
<astraljava> pleia2: Btw. re: translations bug, did you follow the instructions at: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#translation
 * astraljava hasn't yet done an analysis of the bugs so far
<pleia2> astraljava: no, but I don't think it was any of those things, it was just a portion of the desktop that wasn't showing up translated
<astraljava> pleia2: Do you mean that it _is_ translated, but it isn't working in quantal?
<pleia2> well, I don't know if it's translated
<pleia2> I really don't understand the translations process all that well, so I'm not even sure where to look
<astraljava> Yeah me neither. :)
<astraljava> High time to learn, I suppose.
<astraljava> Well, err... translations page is not available for quantal. How are we supposed to check?
<astraljava> I'll ask on -testing.
<astraljava> Wait, we're providing support for stable+1 on #xubuntu?
<astraljava> Then I see no objections to send the testers in there for the IRC case.
<pleia2> I don't know, are we? :)
<astraljava> Says so on the release notes draft. :)
<pleia2> oh, that
<pleia2> we always say that, but I never actually read it apparently
<astraljava> LOLlero.
<astraljava> pleia2: There's a fine line between reading text and understanding it.
 * astraljava just realized the keyboard layout thingie is in the testcases twice.
<astraljava> knome: pleia2: anyone with interest: Which do you think it'd suit better? Is it important enough to have it in Short (thus getting more frequency)?
<astraljava> knome: I went ahead and removed the protocol babbling from /Long's email section.
<ochosi> astraljava: i think we can remove the "appearance"-section from 12.10 testing again, otherwise we'll get lots of duplicates to bug #1016713...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016713 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Different greys in LightDM shutdown and accessibility menus" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016713
<astraljava> ochosi: Heh, ok, if you feel like it. Will you, or shall I?
<ochosi> astraljava: hmm, on second thought, maybe i can also rephrase it towards missing icons
<ochosi> astraljava: cause that would make a lot of sense and still be helpful
<astraljava> ochosi: Excellent, thanks!
<astraljava> pleia2: re: bug 1018550, was the not-translated part visible in the panel by default? If so, then I presume it's DateTime plugin that we're talking about, instead of orage. My apologies if that's the case.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018550 in orage (Ubuntu) "Orage clock not translated to Spanish" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018550
<ochosi> astraljava: ok, done
<astraljava>  \o/
<ochosi> btw, how was yesterday's meeting?
<ochosi> haven't had time to read the backlog and there are no minutes yet
<astraljava> I didn't see any conversation happening during the time of the meeting, except princess telling us she was sorry she was late (of nothing). :D
 * astraljava had to also miss the meeting
<ochosi> ok, then i guess there probably wasn't one
<astraljava> Most likely that is the acceptable resolution, yes.
<ochosi> maybe we should re-schedule
<ochosi> bbl
<astraljava> I doubt there's that much open and pressing issues.
<astraljava> Heheh. Apparently we should pay a little more attention to the testcases. At least I don't even find where I could set the suspend timer.
<Sysi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8744 is this bug present in 4.10 on quantal?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.xfce.org: HTTP Error 404: Not Found (http://bugzilla.xfce.org/xml.cgi?id=8744)
<Sysi> alt+printscreen also fails for me, assigned to xfce4-screenshooter -w in default settings
<astraljava> I can come back to those after the milestone is released, too busy now.
<knome> astraljava, well ideally we'd only have one test which everybody always runs.
<knome> astraljava, but i suppose it can be at /Short, since it's been there before
<astraljava> knome: Yeah well, if you want to include /Long into one that always gets run, then I can foresee a drastic reduce of daily testing for sure. .)
<knome> i know
<astraljava> knome: But yeah, I concur, I'll remove it from /Long for now.
<knome> maybe call the short test "daily" then and the long test.... "milestone" :P
<knome> or daily and extended
<astraljava> Well that's technically not "correct" when doing the milestones, cause then "daily" is a prerequisite for the "extended". But I think the proper solution in the end is that you will only see one testcase in the tracker, so you don't have to see the names for the cases at all. Milestone only has the "daily" embedded first.
<knome> yes
 * astraljava hates the transition times :D
<knome> o'rly?
<knome> i'm so happy that the tests are actually reviewed now
<knome> and that there is much more sense in them
<astraljava> Yeah. Like I noticed that no one had realized, or at least voiced the absence of a timer for Suspend in Xubuntu. :D
<astraljava>  /Long warranted the testing of such in the Suspend case...
<astraljava> Made me wonder whether anyone actually _really_ tested the /Long at all, but then maybe they just didn't have laptops.
<knome> yup.
<knome> i think actually many skipped the short/long tests altogether
<knome> i did at first, because i didn't know they existed
<astraljava> Well that shouldn't be the case this time, considering I shed blood and tears for that announcement email, dangit!
<astraljava> knome: We've reviewed Wubi?
<knome> astraljava, didn't we. i already sent an email to ev telling to drop all support.
<astraljava> It's possible, I just have no recollection of it. It isn't all that surprising. If you know we did, then I'm cool with it.
<knome> we pretty much decided that at the sprint we had
<knome> there might have been some brief discussions after, all coming to the conclusion that we simply don't have testers for it
<astraljava> Right, ok, that explains why I can't recall, cause there's no trail of crumbs. :)
<astraljava> Yeah, I just thought that the decision was now pending on ev's response to the call for help.
<knome> and that it is just one more thing to carry with, and a thing that comes with problems
<knome> no, he responded that the changes were being made
<astraljava> Yeah, I agree whole-hearedly.
<knome> i suppose they are done already
<astraljava> heartedly*
<knome> heh :)
<astraljava> Excellent, thanks.
<knome> let me see if i still have that mail
<knome> looks like i don't
<knome> i think i forwarded it to you though?
<knome> at least the original mail
<knome> oh, no, there it is
<knome> you're cc'd in that message
<knome> "Re: Xubuntu Wubi status", June 8th
<astraljava> My apologies, somehow I've missed that. I see it now. Case closed.
<knome> ...aand i have forwarded it to xubuntu-devel too :D
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008244.html
<knome> there we go
<knome> (for information generally)
<astraljava> Have you written the blog article you promised in that mail?
<knome> probably not... :)
<astraljava> Ok, there was no deadline for it, real or imaginary. Just whenever, but preferably not long after quantal gets released.
<knome> if you want to do it... :>
<astraljava> I can, next week or so.
<knome> maybe in the alpha notes too.
<astraljava> No time for that.
<knome> hmm?
<knome> i could add that, i mean
<astraljava> Ohh... sweet.
<knome> oh, you're editing the post.
<astraljava> Oh that reminds me.
<astraljava> Sorry.
<knome> heh :)
<astraljava> Damn, it got left open at home... :(
<astraljava> Can you not unlock it?
<knome> lol
<knome> i can just force
<knome> if you don't have anything changed
<astraljava> Cool, do it, cause I didn't make any changes.
<knome> ok, coll
<knome> cool too
<astraljava> But it reminded me, we're saying we want the people to join us on #xubuntu for support of stable+1.
<astraljava> Like, for realsies?
<knome> where?
<knome> oh, that
<astraljava> princess already admitted for not ever reading the release notes she writes. :D
<knome> it says "#ubuntu+1 or #xubuntu"
<astraljava> But what's the official stance on it?
<astraljava> Yeah, that specifically _allows_ discussion about stable+1 on _#xubuntu_.
<knome> #ubuntu+1 is sometimes really useless for non-stable xubuntuists
<knome> think: new xfce version
<knome> is anyone of us even hanging in there?
 * astraljava points to self
<knome> btw, i like the motion in -ops to create #ubuntu-discussion
<astraljava> Don't care.
<knome> i'm thinking that maybe we could rename
<knome> i'll remove #xubuntu then
<astraljava> Whatever, don't have an opinion to it.
<astraljava> Ok, thanks.
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/?p=1306&preview=true
<knome> i think that might need some english-love
<knome> :D
<astraljava> "If you need support for this release..."
<astraljava> Otherwise it's great.
<astraljava> But we need to add the known issues.
<astraljava> I'll try to do that this evening, at around 18:30 ->
<knome> okay, thanks.
<astraljava> Unless it needs to go out before that. I just asked from balloons, as no one seems to want to answer me on -release.
<knome> awwh. :)
<astraljava> Btw. are you around in the evening, from that time onwards?
<knome> ermm, probably
<knome> is there something worth it? :P
<astraljava> We'd probably need to decide whether we're really going to release or not, depending on the results on the tracker.
<knome> astraljava, right
<knome> astraljava, it doesn't look *too* bad now
<knome> oh, it kind of does with all the fails
<knome> astraljava, is there a test you'd prefer me to run?
<astraljava> No, it does not. Only the whole disk encryption (with encrypted $HOME to boot) fails with Thunar being unable to show the contents of $HOME. 
<astraljava> knome: The other fails are not show-stoppers, really.
<knome> yes
<knome> that's why i'm not really sure about all this fail-stuff
<knome> because we kind of have many fails, but oh well, let's still release
<astraljava> I can't do any auto-resizes cause I'm using virt, or at least I don't know how to do them.
<astraljava> So if you can, run them. Otherwise... we're cool.
<knome> i'd vote for "fail" only if it really fails.
<astraljava> BUT! You could run Studio's amd64s... *smirk*
<knome> astraljava, to auto-resize, just create a big enough drive, then install xubuntu into it, and after that, install another xubuntu on a different partition, and autoresize the other partition
<astraljava> Yes well, I think the result numbers are really important for final release, not so much for milestones.
<astraljava> But it never asks for the boot image when it finds grub on the MBR.
<astraljava> I probably need to tamper with the settings somehow.
<knome> hmm.
<knome> boot image?
<astraljava> ISO
<astraljava> .iso
<astraljava> But I need to run now. Run whatever tests you want, if you want. We most likely won't get all the tests run anyway, so we're gonna have to make the decision with sub-par data after all.
<knome> i think that's what we did with the 12.04 alpha2 too
<knome> or, i did test like a madman, and i think we got all but a few done
<knome> but i think one guy testing 10 things in a few hours isn't really what i call "testing"
<astraljava> No, not really.
<astraljava> I need to work much better for the next milestones, to attract more testers.
<astraljava> But anyway, gone for now.
<knome> yup. hf
<astraljava> Back at around 1530-1600 UTC.
<knome> yup.
<ochosi> knome: any more/new gmb feedback?
<ochosi> micahg: ping
<skaet> astraljava, knome, - do you want the images to be released today, based on the results of your testing?   Not quite clear to me from the results on the tracker.
<hobgoblin> ok - got this odd bug in the alternate alpha2 - absolutely no idea what to report it against - so some help would be cool
<hobgoblin> install a kbd layout - add orage to panel - click on orage - changes kb layout - click on orage - changes kb layout back again
<ochosi> hobgoblin: wow, that really does sound very odd...
<ochosi> (unfortunately i have no way of testing 12.10 atm)
<hobgoblin> ochosi: you're telling me - I was completely confused - I thought I was seeing things 
<skaet> help please,  there aren't any updates for Xubuntu in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Alpha2
<ochosi> knome, astraljava ^
<hobgoblin> ochosi: had it in the entire disc one I also got bug 1013996 in that - but the encrypted one was fine 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1013996 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "gnome-language-selector crashed when Apply System-Wide button was clicked." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013996
<hobgoblin> so whether it was tied up with that I don't know 
<ochosi> skaet: astraljava said he'd be back around 16UTC, so he hopefully won't be (too) long
<skaet> thanks ochosi.   :)
<ochosi> skaet: no problem, sorry i can't help you myself
<pleia2> skaet: updated with notes from our own release announcement (not much, just a couple things)
<pleia2> well, wiki is saving...
<skaet> Thanks pleia2 !  :)
<pleia2> ochosi: we should add a "known issue" of 1016713, how shall we word it?
<hobgoblin> pleia2: when you had issues with orage and languages - did you notice anything bizarre going on with keyboard layouts?
<ochosi> pleia2: All applications using Gtk3 currently look bad because of a bug in the Unico engine.
<pleia2> hobgoblin: no, I removed the applet after the keyboard test
<ochosi> pleia2: not sure how else to say it, other than "look bad"
<hobgoblin> pleia2: k - cheers
<pleia2> ochosi: ok, I'll incl bug info
<ochosi> pleia2: ty
<pleia2> ok, I have an appointment to run off to, we should be good to go release notes and posts wise though
<pleia2> will be back in an hour or so
<ochosi> i'm off for the day
<ochosi> hf!
<micahg> ochosi: pong
<astraljava> pleia2: Thanks for handling the technical overview! I gave the permission to release, despite the worrying bug elfy/hobgoblin found.
<hobgoblin> astraljava: not got around to putting that result on the tracker by the way - no idea what to call the bug lol
<astraljava> Oh? But... but... I think it is there.
<astraljava> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/222/builds/17813/testcases/130/results
<hobgoblin> no - that was a different one 
<hobgoblin> aah - that's the live I did yesterday - the odd language/kbd thing was today with an alternate entire disc - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/222/builds/17811/testcases/138/results
<astraljava> Oh you were talking about that. Right.
<astraljava> I didn't get to test that, yet.
<hobgoblin> :)
<hobgoblin> I really don't like alternates unless I REALLY need to use them :p
<pleia2> well that's handy, I really don't like the desktop images :)
 * astraljava ^5s pleia2
<pleia2> ^5
<hobgoblin> pleia2: LOL
<pleia2> tossing alpha2 on fridge ;) then I'll publish ours
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/quantalalpha2/
<pleia2> voila
<pleia2> twitter and g+ updated
 * pleia2 goes back to work
 * astraljava buys an imaginary trophy for our marketing champion
 * hobgoblin doesn;t say anything about the llink to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/987818 failing
<ubottu> Error: malone bug 987818 not found
<Unit193> See? ubottu said no problem.
<hobgoblin> that's excellent then :)
<knome> bug 987818
<hobgoblin> link fails knome 
<astraljava> In soviet xubuntu, knome fails links.
<hobgoblin> :)
<knome> hah
<knome> astraljava, so, is a2 ok?
<astraljava> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/quantal/alpha-2/
<astraljava> The release is there, but I wouldn't say it's "ok". It's adequate, but there's still plenty of time. ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> https://twitter.com/ThinkIt_1/status/217787937746722816
<knome> just pointing out.
<knome> https://twitter.com/arcturax/status/216983739052457984 <- should we even retweet? ;)
<astraljava> Can you comment on it? You could, and then add "Thanks, enjoy while it lasts. Prolly not that long."
<knome> hummh? :P
<astraljava> He may not stay with us for that 30 years he did on Apple's products.
<knome> heh
<astraljava> meh... on the former.
<knome> my stomach is saying "hurr durr"
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-29
<ochosi> micahg: ping :)
<micahg> ochosi: hrm, about to go to sleep :)
<ochosi> micahg: ok, just very quickly:
<ochosi> micahg: i have two patches for gmusicbrowser
<ochosi> micahg: i can obviously submit them in bugreports on launchpad
<ochosi> micahg: but the question was: since these are only tweaks to our default settings, should they go through debian first?
<micahg> ochosi: will they work in Debian?
<ochosi> micahg: well i guess so, basically it's just a few startup-settings (like: default playback mode is _not_ shuffle)
<ochosi> micahg: i don't know the status of gmb in debian, so i don't just wanna mess with their settings
<micahg> they take what we use generally
<ochosi> micahg: but i do generally think they make sense for everyone (otherwise i wouldn't push them to xubuntu either)
<ochosi> ok
<micahg> ochosi: people can always complain if there's an issue
<ochosi> then i'll report the bug on lp, add a link to the relevant commits in my github repo
<ochosi> true
<ochosi> well in xubuntu they already did about the shuffle-by-default :p
<micahg> ok, well, I should be subscribed, so I think I'll see it, I'll see if I can get my git foo going and prepare a Debian upload by next week sometime
<ochosi> micahg: ok, so thanks! i'll add you to the bugwatch as soon as i've done that, nighty-night! :)
<ochosi> ah, nice! thanks a lot!
<micahg> hrm, I'm not subscribed, but alessio is, maybe he'll beat me to it
<ochosi> micahg: ok, i'm fine with whoever gets there first ;)
<ochosi> knome, Sysi: feel free to comment on bug #1019157
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1019157 in Shimmer for gmusicbrowser "Change default playback-order from "shuffle" to something more intuitive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019157
<ochosi> madnick: hey, how's the lightdm-greeter coming along?
<ochosi> astraljava: small reminder: upcoming sunday is display-dialog sprint for you! :p
<astraljava> ochosi: Yes, well, actually the week starting from this Sunday. We set the deadline for the weekend after this one, right?
<ochosi> astraljava: i think so, yes
<ochosi> astraljava: so we can discuss it in the next meeting
<knome> astraljava, if you have time/motivation, please also look at: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-optimize-boot
<knome> astraljava, setting that up shouldn't be too hard, and then other people could get to work
<astraljava> ochosi: Yep, that sounds like a good plan.
<astraljava> knome: Yep, that was also on my TODO list after Alpha-2.
<ochosi> astraljava: perfect, let's add it do the agenda for the next meeting then
<astraljava> ochosi: Sure.
<ochosi> ok, added to agenda ;)
<knome> madnick, hai?
<madnick> knome: hi
<Unit193> Hello madnick.
<knome> madnick, have you had time to look at the lightdm blueprint?
<madnick> yes, i spent all night on it
<madnick> or did you change something?
<knome> madnick, oh, great.
<knome> madnick, no, i didn't. i was just asking because ochosi wasn't sure where we stand with the todo list listed on the blueprint
<madnick> I don't know that either, as I thought it was due today, I wrote last night about how thats not gonna happen. The things needed are quite massive, I managed to remove stuff, but adding stuff is much more time consuming
<knome> madnick, okay, so do you have an estimate when you'd be ready with the stuff on the list?
<madnick> Don't know, it complicates things that I'm going on vacation next week for a couple of weeks. I hoped that it wouldve been done yesterday. Its time consuming to add xfsettingsd support and multimonitor (not even sure what you mean by this, it is multi now)
<knome> you need to discuss the details of that with ochosi 
<madnick> yes
<knome> i don't know what he's after :)
<knome> so can you get together with ochosi before you leave and try to set some kind of realistic schedule with him?
<madnick> hopefully, i need to know what he thinks about some of the features aswell
<knome> i'm sure he's willing to discuss anything as long as he knows what you need :)
<madnick> awesome
<knome> i mean, i suppose that's what the hardest thing
<knome> knowing what you need to be able to keep going
<madnick> don't really need much other than "we need that, we dont need that", because when I wrote the blueprint with ochosi, we didnt set the priority on the things the same as they are set now, infact we said "lets start with this", but i guess he changed his mind
<knome> i suppose there is some priorities to any items
<knome> but they are not always obvious
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-30
<ochosi> madnick: heyo!
<ochosi> madnick: afair we said last time that the first goal is to (1) just patch out g-s-d, (2) center the login box and (3) update the branding for xubuntu
<ochosi> madnick: all the other things (xfsettingsd, multi-monitor-support) are optional items, that depend on how much time/energy you have
<ochosi> knome: (in case i
<ochosi> knome: (in case i'm not around later - am on a wedding today and tomorrow - i think you can also take it from here ;) ^ )
<astraljava> knome: anyone interested in the compositor issue: have a look at support channel, alex_alex is having an interesting problem that speaks volumes about the default setting for compositor.
<GridCube> micahg, ping
#xubuntu-devel 2012-07-01
<micahg> GridCube: pong
<GridCube> sup micahg :) i just wanted to know if you know something about the anoying bug on ff13 Bug 1012257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1012257 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Firefox 13 takes control over the mouse pointer when bookmarks are dragged on xubuntu 12.04" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012257
<micahg> GridCube: should be fixed in 14, please try ppa:mozillateam/firefox-next
<GridCube> oh o:
<GridCube> awesome, it was just that people was complaining about it being fixed just for quantal as the fix release person said
<mr_pouit> fyi, all images are broken because of Bug #1019581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1019581 in software-center (Ubuntu Quantal) "update-apt-xapian-index crashed with ImportError in /usr/share/apt-xapian-index/plugins/software-center.py: cannot import name index_name" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019581
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-24
<bluesabre> OvenWerks: that functionality is currently in development, hopefully I will finish it soon
<bkerensa> Xubuntu uses Ubuntu as Grub Entry?
<Unit193> bkerensa: Everything uses Ubuntu, it's what lsb_release outputs.  Check /etc/default/grub to learn more.
<Unit193> "Everything" being all flavors.
<micahg> bkerensa: grub entries refer to the kernel, not the desktop env by default
<bkerensa> mmm
<bkerensa> kk
<bkerensa> micahg, do you know why xfdesktop might ignore deja dups .desktop file? 
<knome> bkerensa, does it have OnlyShowIn or sth like that?
<bkerensa> looks
<bkerensa> I dont see anything like that 
<micahg> NoDisplay=true
<knome> heh :)
<bkerensa> ahh
<pleia2> knome!
<knome> pleia2!
 * bkerensa CTRL+W OnlyShowIn
<bkerensa> I should have manually parsed 
<bkerensa> ;)
<bkerensa> \o/ now I have Deja Dup and all is good :) and it has Ubuntu One support so I don't have to make a script!
<OvenWerks> bluesabre: I have found I can't get that functionality to work unless I move the line  <DefaultMergeDirs/>
<OvenWerks> to the second last line of the applications.menu file in use
<OvenWerks> in the case of xubuntu that file would be /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus/xfce-applications.menu
<OvenWerks> The only DE that does not have this problem is KDE... (well ubuntustudio is fixed now too)
<OvenWerks> bluesabre: I would like to know if you find the same thing.
<knome> forestpiskie, you want to do alpha 1?
<smartboyhw> <smartboyhw> Guys, our QA Classroom sessions starts 1 hour later. Make sure you join us through #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat!
<smartboyhw> <smartboyhw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
<smartboyhw> s/1 hour /42 minutes.
<ochosi> recently a few interesting appmenu alternatives have popped up (slingshot-launcher and whisker-menu)
<smartboyhw> Scrap that, it's 6.
<smartboyhw> Scrap that, it's 66...
 * smartboyhw gets confused with the time...
<bluesabre> ochosi: wanted to try whisker menu, was too lazy to build it for xfce-4.10
<ochosi> bluesabre: there's a debian package
<ochosi> on the project site
<bluesabre> I tried that, it was incompatible
<bluesabre> libxfce4util4 mismatch
<bluesabre> now I am just using a super minimal setup
<bluesabre> 2 panels, one with a clock and transparent bg, sits over windows, other with my indicators, autohide
<ochosi> weird that it didn't work
<ochosi> i'm also using 4.10
<ochosi> in raring
<bluesabre> yeah, beats me
<ochosi> one sec, i'll take another look
<ochosi> bluesabre: try that link: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/gottcode/xUbuntu_13.04/amd64/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin_1.0.0-1_amd64.deb
<bluesabre> ochosi, that worked, thanks!
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> it's basically appfinder in a menu
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> could be a replacement for our menu
<bluesabre> not such a bad thing though
<ochosi> but i'd have to draw quite a few app-icons for that to be really sharp
<ochosi> lotsa 22/24px sizes missing
<ochosi> and i've just gotten started on the 64px department lately (for alt-tab)
<bluesabre> wouldn't want you to get bored :]
<ochosi> hmpf :)
<elfy> knome: as far as Alpha1 goes - unless the desktop launcher gets sorted out they'll all be critical fails ;)
<elfy> assuming it's ok by then - then I'd say yes, and I'd like to know if we want to do anything in cadence week 2 - afaik - the image stays up for a week
<bluesabre> hi elfy!
<bluesabre> re: autopilot, I'm a python guru :)
<bluesabre> haven't had a chance to really look at the autopilot stuff yet, though
<elfy> bluesabre: that's a bonus then - I'm still convinced it's voodoo :)
<elfy> I think really that our best bet is to aim for using it during 14.04 cycle
<bluesabre> yeah, you're probably right, but if we can possibly start using it with even a few apps this cycle, we can hit the ground running with 14.04
<elfy> bluesabre: agreed 
<bluesabre> elfy: starting to play with it some, I've started creating basic tests for catfish :)
<bluesabre> it's not too difficult, the worse part is figuring out exactly which widget you want to attach to
<bluesabre> aha, should pay more attention, elfy already quit
<Unit193> His backlog client is here.
<bluesabre> ah, good news :)
<bluesabre> hows it going, Unit193?
<Unit193> Hot and sticky. :/
<Unit193> You?
<bluesabre> Slowly, very very slowly
<knome> forestpiskie, desktop launcher?
<knome> bluesabre, we definitely should start with preparing this cycle so we would unleash the full power of automated testing for 14.04
<skellat> knome: You sound like an officer aboard The Death Star there... :-)
<knome> :)
<knome> it's too hot here.
<skellat> How hot is it?
<knome> around 25C
<knome> but that's too hot
<skellat> It is 28.9C here in Ashtabula
<knome> i know, i know, it's hotter there
<bluesabre> knome, sure thing.  I'm going to start working with this more just for regression testing on all my apps :)
<skellat> Then again, I used to live in Nevada where 39.4C was normal
<knome> bluesabre, cool
<bluesabre> its pretty awesome
<bluesabre> elfy, we can probably tweak the gedit tests for use with mousepad
<Noskcaj> stop complaining about warmth! It's -5 outside ATM
<knome> sounds like a good place to be in
<skellat> Noskcaj: Which state are you enjoying such Australian winter conditions in?
<Noskcaj> skellat, New South Wales
<skellat> Ah
<skellat> Chilly night for an antarctic blast
<Noskcaj> skellat, if that was directed at me, you might want to study geography a bit more
<skellat> Noskcaj: I know.  The state of Victoria is closer and across the Tasman Straits is NZ which is the ultimate easy access besides Chile to Antarctica.  :-)
<Noskcaj> that was a bit overkill, but yes
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-25
<bkerensa> is it normal for a Xubuntu shutdown to just log me out? :)
<Noskcaj> lol
<bkerensa> Noskcaj: hmm? :)
<Unit193> You may have confused #xubuntu-devel with #xubuntu, thus, you didn't get a real answer.
<forestpiskie> bkerensa: if it's a dev version it might be https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1178373
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1178373 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Restart spawns a password box" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bkerensa> forestpiskie: it appears so :)
<bkerensa> forestpiskie: thx
<forestpiskie> me too it :)
<skellat> elfy/forestpiskie: Did we turn in an answer for A1 participation?
<forestpiskie> skellat: not sure - knome asked me - I said guess so
<knome> elfy, ping
<knome> elfy, i just opted us in for the A1, the installer bug is fixed
<elfy> knome: ok - thanks
<elfy> how do you opt in or out?
<knome> elfy, being in touch with the release team
<knome> elfy, (#ubuntu-release is a useful channel)
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> that doesn't help much - what did you do ? just tell them? 
<knome> heh, yeah
<elfy> :)
<elfy> thanks
<knome> and...
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2013-June/002428.html
<knome> so yeah, you should subscribe the ubuntu-release mailing list and join #ubuntu-release :)
<elfy> sigh
 * elfy hates m/l's 
<knome> since you are now a member of the xubuntu release team, you can make these decisions too ;)
<elfy> :)
<knome> (in cooperation with others if they are around)
<elfy> ie you :p
<knome> and the closer we get to final release, the better it is to have broader consensus of decisions
<knome> yes, atm me ;)
<elfy> yep - agreed
<knome> but i would've been okay if you opted-in for A1
<knome> because it's you who mostly organize the testing anyway
<elfy> tbh I'm more interested in cadence week2 - as far as I'm aware the image stays the same for those things
<elfy> unless it's changed
<knome> you should ask the release team for that
<elfy> ytep
<elfy> knome: I'll check the image again tomorrow re the launcher - doesn't appear to have landed yet - or if it did then it's not fixed
<skellat> I didn't see queuebot say in -release that the new build was done yet
<elfy> I'm going to mail the list re a1
<knome> elfy, or just ask #ubuntu-release, people are around now :)
<elfy> we need to decide also if we're going to do anything in cadence week2 
<elfy> skellat: so there's a bot reporting in there is there? 
<skellat> elfy: Yep
<elfy> k
<elfy> wait for that then
<skellat> That and stgraber just did a paste showing him starting up the back-end to do the spins
<skellat> Or at least a first set: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5799101/
<elfy> thanks 
<knome> bug 1193526
<ubottu> bug 1193526 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Clicking "Install Xubuntu 13.10" in live session doesn't work." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193526
<elfy> yea I know it says fix released :)
<knome> i'm off - see you later
<elfy> cya tomorrow
<pleia2> GridCube: think you can work with folks on list to see if you can get things rolling with the weekly screenshots idea?
<pleia2> you said you had the deviantart thing, can other people get access, or what needs to be done?
<GridCube> they need a dA account 
<GridCube> i just have to OP them, or make them admins
<pleia2> ok, can you send a note to the list saying so?
<pleia2> Rich Dennis (amerigena) is asking what we do now that we have the rules written up :)
<GridCube> :) yes i say
<GridCube> s/say/saw
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-26
<GridCube> done pleia2 :)
<pleia2> GridCube: oh, I'm pleia2 on dA
<Unit193> I'm guessing no secondary location for images?  Example being picasa or flickr.
<pleia2> not at the moment
<pleia2> we'll start here and see how it goes
<Unit193> Alrighty-o.
<pleia2> building massive infrastructures for unproven projects is the way to terror and woe ;)
<GridCube> we still need an icon for the group 
<GridCube> 100x50px gif,png,jpg
<pleia2> if I make one knome will be horrified and it will compell him to make us something good :)
<pleia2> compel
<pleia2> but I don't actually have time right now (have a flight in the morning), so we should just ask him
<GridCube> i can make one in paint to give him the creeps
<GridCube> knome: i sent a mail to the mailing list about the dA group
<GridCube> but i tell you here anyway too. 
<GridCube> the name its not changable, i would need to create a new one,. that can be done.
<GridCube> the name was chosen back there to resemble the most popular group in dA thats #ubuntu-artists, I asked for 3 days to what name i should use, and that was choosen back there. 
<GridCube> s/there/then/
<GridCube> knome: we also still need an avatar icon P:
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-27
<skaet> knome, and others helping with Alpha 1,  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Alpha1/Xubuntu is a prefilled template with the common portions filled in if you want to use it.   If not,  please just let me know the link of where you are keeping the release notes, so it can be used for the announcement.
<skellat> I believe there may be a meeting scheduled for today.  Since I'm currently using a jury-rigged lash up of phone and laptop since my home is going through the 2nd power outage in 72 hours I'm not going to be attending.  I won't be able to keep this link up all that long and the power company has given no ETA for power restoration.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-28
<Unit193> Just a note that we'll want to change plymouth to say 13.10.
<ochosi> Unit193: you're referring to the text-theme, right?
<ochosi> Unit193: if so, i can fix it, just file a bug and I'll assign it to me so that i don't forget
<ochosi> sooo... mir.
<knome> yes, mir.
<knome> kubuntu will use X
<pjotr> Hello, I have a question about Mir
<pjotr> Will Xubuntu migrate to Mir like Ubuntu, or will Xubuntu stay with X.org and later on move to Wayland, like Kubuntu?
<knome> not discussed yet.
<pjotr> OK.... The arguments used by Jonathan Riddell, for taking another course with Kubuntu, might be valid for Xubuntu as well:
<pjotr> http://blogs.kde.org/2013/06/26/kubuntu-wont-be-switching-mir-or-xmir
<knome> i've read the article
<pjotr> When will it be discussed by the Xubuntu devs?
<knome> on the next community meeting, yet unscheduled
<pjotr> OK, thanks.... Hopefully I'll be able to attend. :-)
<knome> we've had meetings on thurdays around 15UTC
<knome> (not every thu, but 1-2 times per month)
<pjotr> OK, I have to go now...
<lderan> good bye
<pjotr> bye
<knome> i'm off as well ->
<lderan> cheerio :P
<Unit193> Adios.
<jxzero> @GridCube have you set a time for an informal meeting for the dA admin? with the rest of the volunteers?
<meetingology> jxzero: Error: "GridCube" is not a valid command.
<GridCube> jxzero: :) dont use @ P:
<GridCube> jxzero: not really, im available at any moment if you need me to help you
<jxzero_> yeah, I realize that now
<GridCube> as said, its an informal meeting, im still waiting for knome to tell me if i need to create a new group
<GridCube> but we can start studying the one already working and in any case move to the other one once the name desicion has been made
<jxzero_> yeah, the name
<jxzero_> it hasn't been settled
<jxzero_> it'll still be the same set of stuff to take care of, anyway, right?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> it would just change the name
<jxzero> what time do people usually come online here?
<GridCube> i mean, unless someone pays for a premium account, then we could add other stuffs
<GridCube> randomly
<GridCube> i cant pay for a premium group account, i do not have a credit card
<jxzero> I think we could do with a basic account
<jxzero> neither do I
<GridCube> yes ofcourse
<jxzero> anyway, the whole point of the gallery is to show them xubuntu
<jxzero> fancy things can come later
<GridCube> sorry 'bout that
<GridCube> what its the dA account you are using?
<jxzero> my M-Jae account
<jxzero> I think I've sent a request already
<GridCube> yes, i recieved a few :P i didnt knew wich one was yours
<GridCube> want me to admin you and teach you the basics?
<jxzero> oh, yeah, I guess I missed mentioning that over at the threads
<jxzero> sure, thanks
<GridCube> ok i just sent you an invitation to the group as contributor
<GridCube> it should be showin in your messagin area
<jxzero> got it
<jxzero> clicked yes
<GridCube> :) great now you should have access to the Admin area on the group page
<jxzero> is there a group twitter registered to that box?
<jxzero> it's been loading for long enough, but it could just be my connection, of course
<GridCube> it fetchs @xubuntu tweets
<jxzero> right, so it's just me
<GridCube> ok im gonna upload a screenshot and suggest it to the group
<GridCube> mmm probably as im the owner it wont ask for permission to submit
<jxzero> probably
<GridCube> hehehe yes, i forgot to change that setting
<jxzero> if it doesn't, I guess we need to set up a dummy account
<GridCube> no, i already changed the way it works XD
<GridCube> we still might have to have a dummy account for other sources of images
<GridCube> ok now
<GridCube> :) you should have a correspondance message
<jxzero> got it
<GridCube> P: i setted it to need just 1 vote to aprove
<GridCube> vote and it should go to the Featured gallery
<GridCube> it can only go there because we havent set any other gallery yet
<jxzero> or not I got a different notif
<GridCube> mmm
<jxzero> yeah, not one
<jxzero> maybe it's not done uploading?
<GridCube> yes its uploaded
<GridCube> mmm ok i think i've fixed it
<GridCube> ok now, :)
<jxzero> checking
<jxzero> where should it appear again?
<GridCube> in the top its a Correspondance message, in the messagin area it appears under the group section
<jxzero> now it's there
<GridCube> :)
<jxzero> I was looking at "correspondence messages"
<jxzero> it's under group
<GridCube> P: on the top it says that, sorry
<GridCube> accept it :D
<jxzero> done
<GridCube> now :) if you go to the group page, you can go to the "gallery" tab, if you hover the image you will see a pencil icon pop out
<GridCube> clicking that icon will allow you to manage where the image is or of it should be deleted
<jxzero> nope,  I only get "more like this"
<GridCube> ok :D it more things i have to change the settings to, P: 
<jxzero> lol
<jxzero> this is why we test things :p
<GridCube> i though i saved, but i didnt saved the options the first time
<GridCube> now you should have access
 * GridCube crossfingers
<jxzero> I got a pencil thing
<jxzero> But not on the image
<jxzero> It's in the gallery button
<jxzero> It links to "change name" and "uninstall"
<GridCube> mmm hover the image, it should appear
<GridCube> yes, dont worry about that
<jxzero> it doesn't work for non "super" groups
<jxzero> let me try that hover thing again
<pleia2> welcome jxzero :)
<jxzero> thanks pleia2
<jxzero> I still get "drag and collect" and "more like this"
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/262739
<jxzero> yeah, I'm not getting that... I've tried to refresh lots of times already.
<GridCube> :/ i dont understand, you do have permission
<GridCube> let me move it to the test folder
<GridCube> ok now?
<GridCube> if not i can change your role to co-owner instead of contributor
<GridCube> and see if that works
<jxzero> yeah, it totally says "have full control" in the settings area
<jxzero> still not getting that pencil in the artwork part, though
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> ill change you to co-founder then
<GridCube> :/ now?
<jxzero> got iy
<jxzero> *it
<jxzero> what's next
<jxzero> ?
<GridCube> well then its setting up galleries for different things and accepting/rejecting submissions :P
<GridCube> aint that difficult of a job really
<jxzero> as long as we volunteers have time, that is
<GridCube> to aprove an image we should check that it complies with the group policy,
<GridCube> jxzero: :) yeah but if just needs one vote then its easy, though we probably might want to need 2 votes to aprove
<jxzero> do we have time for three votes, instead?
<GridCube> sure that can be done
<GridCube> we are 4
<GridCube> at the admins
<GridCube> ok done, i've set that any user can suggest images to the non featured galery, and group members can suggest to the test folder and the featured folder, all need 3 votes
<jxzero> what about the group membership? Do we approve people first or is it open?
<GridCube> i set it to autoaccept its a promotional thing really, they cant really do much except promote us on their pages :D
<GridCube> they cant suggest anything but their own submissions, not even favs 
<jxzero> well, that makes sense
<jxzero> so, has anyone gone about some sort of plan about how this can take off beyond the dev list?
<GridCube> i think that when we are ready we can make an announcement in the xubuntu website, some tweet, g+, fb messages.
<GridCube> mailing list, the whole thing
<pleia2> yep, that's the plan
<pleia2> that should give us a nice initial influx of submissions, and you folks just let me know when you're running low and I'll social media it up again and again :)
<pleia2> (and I encourage individuals to share it too)
<GridCube> P: exactly, and webupd8 usually picks up this kind of announcements too
<pleia2> it occurs to me that we should announce the desktop of the week each week on the social media, so that'll link them to the page where we'll have info about how to submit your own
<GridCube> sure that would be nice
<skellat> ochosi knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1195633
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1195633 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Drop metacity/mutter theme in Albatross" [Undecided,Invalid]
<Noskcaj> We still have the "Xubuntu Raring Parole 0.5.0" on the iso tracker in the daily's do we want to remove it or rename it?
<skellat> Noskcaj: What's the version in Saucy?
<Noskcaj> i don't know
<Noskcaj> 0.5.1-1
<skellat> https://launchpad.net/parole/+packages
<skellat> I'd say update it then
<Noskcaj> I suggest we turn it into a parole package test rather than leaving it on the iso tracker
<knome> as long as the testing team is aware of the package tracker
<Noskcaj> yeah, i'm working on the manual test now
<knome> it was a well thought decision to put it in the ISO tracker as we hadn't used the package tracker too much before
<knome> (and since there really wasn't other package tests for xubuntu)
<elfy> package tests for xubuntu is something I really want us to deal with
<knome> me too
<knome> we didn't get too much a1 testing :(
<Noskcaj> we only have one or two up on the package tracker, the cross-flavour ones
<elfy> knome: no - we didn't
<knome> we should start to organize a2 testing earlier
<Noskcaj> knome, we weren't on the a1 tracker
<elfy> I didn't even get to it - this issues with dates different on 2 schedules is not very useful
<knome> heh yes
<knome> is there still two different schedules around?
<elfy> yep
<knome> can you point me or somebody else to them?
<elfy> there's a release one and the cadence one 
<knome> ah
<knome> but they are to be kept separately, right?
<elfy> believe so - the cadence one is balloons baby
<knome> ;)
<knome> i think just mostly disregard cadence until we have more active testers..
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> I didn't even see xubuntu on the alpha tracker
<elfy> but I was netless for a day 
<knome> mhm
<Noskcaj> it wasn't on the a1 tracker at all
<elfy> as far as package tests go we need to puish to get manual tests written - even if they are just basic
<Noskcaj> bug 1195676 has broken every desktop install
<ubottu> bug 1195676 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with BrokenPipeError in command(): [Errno 32] Broken pipe during manual saucy desktop installations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1195676
<knome> Noskcaj, xubuntu, or all flavors?
<Noskcaj> all
<knome> elfy, are those the ones with bug per missingtest?
<elfy> knome: yea - 28 
<elfy> 27 
<knome> elfy, are all of those xubuntu-related?
<elfy> the gnumeric advanced one isn't important imho
<elfy> yep
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bugs?field.tag=xubuntu
<knome> elfy, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-s-qa/+linkbug
<knome> once we show up in status.ubuntu.com, linked bugs should be counted towards our todo list
<knome> s/should be/are/
<elfy> ok - I'll add them to blueprint 
<knome> ta!
<knome> also, is there bugs for missing autopilot tests?
<knome> those could go in as well..
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I'll work through them all now
<knome> great, thannks!
<knome> -n
<elfy> Noskcaj: did you not do the mines testcase?
<Noskcaj> elfy, i did, and i think it's merged
<knome> mines? i hope that's below-low priority :P
<elfy> notes?
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> knome: ^^
<Noskcaj> both are merged
<knome> Noskcaj, could you keep the bug statuses up-to-date?
<elfy> helps to mark them as fix releases then :p
<Noskcaj> i thought i had, oops
<knome> well it's released when it shows up in the tracker
<knome> committed when it's MP/merged
<elfy> k
<knome> well committed when it's merged tbe
<knome> in progress when you're working on it/when it's MP
<elfy> but it's released once it's in the testcase branch? 
<knome> no, it's released when it's on the tracker
<knome> released is like "all done, don't look at this bug any more"
<elfy> ok 
<knome> at least that's how i see it
<elfy> so then if we don't ever end up putting them on the tracker they're never fix released?
<knome> then they are obsolete or wontfix
<knome> or then they are still pending and waiting to be added to the tracker
<elfy> I hate launchpad and it's arcane wording
<knome> release/obsolete/wontfix mark the bug as closed
<knome> and opinion kind of as well
<knome> and invalid.
<knome> others mean the bug is open
<knome> and open should mean somebody needs to do something for the bug, closed that no work needs to be done
<knome> maybe that clears it a bit
<elfy> ok - added all the bugs to the blueprint now 
<knome> the bugs statuses make most sense if you think of a generic bug in software
<elfy> I guess so - as far as I could see - if the bug was a testcase was needed - then it's all done once there is a testcase merged into branch
<knome> no, because merged to a branch doesn't mean it's "available"
<knome> that's pretty close to fix committed really
<knome> with a normal bug, when it's fix committed, it's in the branch
<knome> but won't be available for the end-user before the next ubuntu release
<elfy> except these aren't those sort of bugs :)
<knome> in testcases' case, "release" is a bit misleading, but i'd still only consider it released when it's available in the tracker
<knome> for the open/closed status difference
<elfy> :)
<knome> does that make sense?
<elfy> sort of :)
<elfy> not sure it matters - as long as we're all looking at it the same way and doing the same thing :)
<knome> yup
<knome> the most important thing is to track "in progress" and "fix *"
<knome> (and assignee)
<elfy> yea
<elfy> ok - so the blueprint is done I think 
<elfy> got manual and autopilot ones on it 
<knome> that's a huge list.
<elfy> I know 
<elfy> you said do it ... 
<elfy> I've bumped the mail as well 
<Noskcaj> where are some videos built into xubuntu? i need them for the parole tstcase
<elfy> knome: some of them will take 30 minutes to actually write 
<knome> elfy, i know, they are pretty straightforward
<knome> Noskcaj, i don't think we ship any
<elfy> but as it's 2 or 3 of us doing them it is rather scary ;)
<knome> much like the docs rewrite
<knome> but seriously, i think you could get much help from the community if you wrote a mail to the devel list
<knome> draft one, get me in the loop and let's improve that together (and take pleia2 with us) and let's do a good call for contributors
<elfy> ok
<knome> i'm pretty sure jack (jjfrv8), the docs guy, would be willing to help with that as well
<knome> he's not too much on irc though, so you usually need an email to catch him
<Noskcaj> speaking of docs, i need to finish translating the xubuntu ones
<elfy> knome: sent you a draft
<knome> thanks, will look at it in some time
<elfy> ta - I'm off shortly - will be about on and off all weekend
<knome> oki
<knome> have fun off the pc :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> hoping to catch up with middle kid 
<knome> nice
<elfy> yep
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-30
<Noskcaj> pleia2, What do i do now i've signed the W8 form for the magazine payment? Do i scan it and email or do i send it in an envelope?
<Unit193> ochosi!
<ochosi> Unit193?
<ochosi> bbl
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-23
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/xfce-daily better.
<Noskcaj-school> Panel merge is up
<Noskcaj-school> Unit193: Should dev-tools be synced from d/experimental?
<Noskcaj-school> And i'll fix the homepage sometime soon
<Unit193> Parole and xfpm should land in that daily.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Looked at the upstream changelog, not a lot changed so should be low risk.
<Unit193> ochosi: Do you have commit access to xfce4-session, and is our delta supposed to be upstreamed?
<Unit193> brainwash: freshplayerplugin script broke?
<ochosi> Unit193: nope, don't have access to that one...
<ochosi> guess as long as there's no real maintainer for that it's also hard to say where upstream is going (delta-wise)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Will Law (williumbillium) seems to have done verification on LP: #1326740.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1326740 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu6 to trusty" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1326740
<Unit193> ochosi: Oh, and did you have an opinion on icon size?  I'm firmly against 48. :P
<ochosi> Unit193: icon size where again?
<Unit193> ochosi: Desktop.
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Don't agree?
<bluesabre> this is the first time I've interacted with the SRU process, not sure where he did verification
<Unit193> OOoh, sorry, wasn't thinking of my last ping.  He seemed to state it fixes the problem without adding new ones.
<bluesabre> ah, where?
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1326740/comments/14 not very much, but.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1326740 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu6 to trusty" [Critical,Fix committed]
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<bluesabre> somehow missed that one
<ochosi> Unit193: ah, i guess i'm fine with 32 as well. but it used to be 36 which results in unsharp icons ->meh
<ochosi> and 48px was chosen because it's the default in thunar as well
<ochosi> Unit193: feel free to propose a MR against -default-settings
<Unit193> Craap, I'm going to break something..  OK.
<ochosi> suuuure, s/48/32/ is a dangerous action!
<Unit193> Noo, the LP side. :D
<ochosi> elfy: i added the two specs by Unit193 to the meeting's agenda
<Unit193> I saw, when I went to add them.
<ochosi> just in case i can't make it to the meeting, i wanted to say that i wanna move those along. so i wanna give people a bit of time to raise concerns (during the meeting and for a few days on the ML), but generally the approach is to move in that direction
<ochosi> if there are concerns, we can vote on them
<ochosi> but if there aren't, i'd like to reduce the bureaucracy there
<ochosi> Unit193: fwiw, i asked around in #u-desktop and i guess we'll have to wait for the sponsors to pick up thunar-dropbox. but i guess there's nothing else to do than wait
<Unit193> You mean hexchat-indicator?
<elfy> ochosi: ack
<ochosi> Unit193: err whatÃ
<ochosi> ?
<elfy> is there a hexchat-indicator?
<ochosi> yeah, there seemingly is
<ochosi> haven't tried it, but it seems to be based on the xchat-indicator
<ochosi> i'm not sure we really *have* to have that to go for hexchat since we haven't had a messaging menu for quite a while now
<ochosi> hence also no xchat indicator...
<elfy> indeed
<Unit193> Yep, that's what I linked to, and since the desktop team packaged the other one.
<ochosi> but there's no "needs-packaging" bug report for hexchat-indicator, is there?
<Unit193> But, -indicator is installed, and that was my point.  Feature differrence.  Not that I know of.
<ochosi> you mean xchat-indicator?
<Unit193> Yeah.
<ochosi> could you test hexchat indicator and see if it works correctly?
<ochosi> if so, i guess we do want it packaged so we can install it by default
<elfy> I would if I can find it
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/hexchat-indicator
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> deep antipathy to compiling elfy has
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/staging/+build/6123909 should make you feel better. :P
<Unit193> libnih, they have a lib for not invented here?
<elfy> much better elfy feels :p
<Unit193> My money is on a big fat no. :D
<Unit193> elfy: Didyou ry it?
<Unit193> ...That was painful.
<elfy> no
<Unit193> Amazingly, works in trusty.
<Unit193> (Don't add the ppa, just snag the deb if anything.)
<elfy> I did 
<elfy> just installed it
<elfy> well it is in the indicator
<Unit193> 0.0.1-0ubuntu1.1~14.10 is the one that doesn't dep on xchat. :P
<elfy> whether it does anything or not I don't know yet
<Unit193> So, I do this just for a trial build, and I just had to convert it to multiarch. :P
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> elfy: does it help if i ping you?
<elfy> it might if I'm not actually in hexchat - give me a moment and try again :)
<Unit193> ochosi: Ready?
<Unit193> elfy: Ping.
<elfy> nada
<elfy> so it works as well as the xchat one then :p
<ochosi> hehe
<Unit193> Better than I expected.
<elfy> the hexchat notification does it's thing
<ochosi> good
<ochosi> Unit193: i presume the hexchat indicator won't make it to debian, right?
<Unit193> Why would it? xchat didn't.
<Unit193> lp:~unit193/hexchat-indicator/packaging or something like that.
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405 added sponsors, you had nothing there that'd make it show up on their radar.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> elfy: So -indicator is of no use at all, right?
<elfy> you can use it to start hexchat and to start it in safe mode 
<elfy> but other than that it does nothing at all 
<Unit193> I'll take that as a no, I'd think.
<elfy> so - unless it's going to make a miraculous leap into usefulness I'd say not
<Unit193> OK, cool.  And, just FYI, I've setup the parole and xfpm daily builds, but as I'm not in -dev right now they're just going into one of mine.
<elfy> and I'm not overenamoured with hexchat's current issues for me 
<elfy> Unit193: ok 
<Unit193> :/
<elfy> did you see the screenshots of the resize thing?
<Unit193> So yes, the goal is to get it in xubuntu-dev, but that'll be figured out later.  I don't suppose you'll be one playing with them though anyway.  Yes, not exactly sure what's going on, unless the image I saw wasn't clipped at all.
<elfy> of course it looks like someone is on the ball with bugs - but the resize bug has been marked as an enhancement
<elfy> I guess the change from a seperate search box - which worked well was as well
<elfy> no clipping in the image - the screenshot encompasses the right edge of the monitor - if I had 2 monitors it would be on the next monitor
<elfy> if you look at the channel names you can see what's been lost fairly easily
<Unit193> Pulled it up, I see.
<bluesabre> Unit193: d'oh
<ochosi> hey
<Unit193> Howdy.  Well I'm here to help. :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, if you need anything wrt uploader application let me know
<bluesabre> hey ochosi/Unit193
<bluesabre> ochosi: sure, going to try to finish it tonight
<ochosi> great
<bluesabre> s/tonight/starting now
<Unit193> Indeed, great.
<ochosi> in other "news", can we get Unit193's recipes for xfpm and parole to the xubuntu-dev staging PPA for utopic?
<Unit193> Would be handy if I could still have access to edit them though. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> oh, and i added support for controlling the x11 screensaver blanking to xfpm today (still in a branch)
<Unit193> But, as long as I can push to the packaging branch, should be fine.
<bluesabre> sure, link to recipes?
<bluesabre> or I can dig them up
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> got them
<bluesabre> thanks
<Unit193> Should just be able to re-target it.
<bluesabre> I think I'll have to copy them to ~xubuntu-dev so they have upload rights
<bluesabre> same recipe, different home
<ochosi> humm, i just got invited to slack: https://slack.com/is
<ochosi> any of you know that or used that before?
<bluesabre> irc++ ?
<bluesabre> looks interesting
<ochosi> yeah, it does
<ochosi> i'm just afraid of tool overflow
<ochosi> although it seems to integrate stuff like github and trell
<ochosi> o
<bluesabre> which ppa would you like me to target? xfce-4.12?
<ochosi> but i guess as long as launchpad isn't one of them (and it'd surprise me if it ever would), it's not really a great option for us
<Unit193> bluesabre: Bad idea. :P
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> daily
<bluesabre> ;
<bluesabre> )
<ochosi> we have different ppas now, yeah :)
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ppa
<bluesabre> ?
<ochosi> i'd suggest https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/xubuntu-staging
<bluesabre> ok, works for me
<bluesabre> setting up now
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+recipe/parole-daily
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+recipe/xfpm-daily
<bluesabre> ochosi: want to continue my xubuntu-release membership?
<ochosi> oh sure
<ochosi> bluesabre: bumped
<bluesabre> yayyyyyy
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> http://www.webupd8.org/2014/06/audacious-going-back-to-gtk2-starting.html
<ochosi> this is fun news
<bluesabre> interesting at least
<bluesabre> don't like gtk3, going back to gtk2, so I can go to QT
<ochosi> yeah, i was being sarcastic
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> going back to gtk2 doesn't really solve anything
<Unit193> ochosi: Why not?  The goal is to move to Qt, updating your "stable" branch every 5 minutes due to upstream isn't really good.  GTK2 is stable enough they don't need to keep one eye on that and  one on Qt.
<ochosi> i dunno, i guess i'd just try to leap to qt directly, but everyone his/her own
<ochosi> night everyone
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-24
<Unit193> bluesabre: Speaking of which, how much, or what info do you want me to pass along when I get it?
<bluesabre> "it?"
<Unit193> it=info
<bluesabre> suppose I'll take any info available
<Unit193> knome: So when should we finish those translation things?
<Unit193> How do you tell who has commit access to an Xfce repo?
<cub> morning knome, are you around?
<ali1234> Unit193: check the commit log basically. and filter out any commits containing the word "translation" - which is about 97% of them
<knome> Unit193, "some day"
<knome> Unit193, i'll have suitable computer time probably next week
<knome> cub, what's up?
<cub> Hi knome, I was updating a test installation of the Ubuntu Studio site and have some weird caching issues when doing changes in the theme. Thought you might now something about that?
<cub> for instance when I change a colour in reset.css it doesn't apply until later, randomly
<knome> cub, there's no caching in the theme so it must come from (a) wordpress (plugin)  or the server
<knome> wordpress itself does not cache
<cub> that's what I thought, but I only get this behaviour on the ubuntu studio theme.
<cub> thanks knome 
<knome> that's weird
<knome> what you can do is access the reset.css directly in your browser and hard refresh
<cub> yup did that. It has the new settings but still the browser show the old colour. Cleared all my caches and even tried another browser
<cub> then after I got coffee it changed.
<cub> So I did another change...and is still waiting for it to show. :P strange.
<cub> anyway, then I know there's no secret stuff hidden somewhere
<knome> :)
<elfy> ochosi: I did actually see that mail - but didn't say anything :)
<ochosi> elfy: what mail?
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome, any feedback? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis/DeveloperApplication
<elfy> ochosi: the alpha participation one
<elfy> just so you know I'm at that list and watch for those things 
<ochosi> ah good, thanks elfy 
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome, feel free to add support in the Comments section there too ;)
<ochosi> will do!
<ochosi> bluesabre: is it on purpose that you don't list mugshot and menulibre in areas of involvement?
<ochosi> err, areas of work
<ochosi> i mean you do mention them, but a lot more briefly
<bluesabre> that section indicated that it was work done with other devs, suppose I should add them anyway
<ochosi> and after all, two of them you've written from scratch and one of them you've practically re-done
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> i guess i should take a look at the template...
<ochosi> btw, light-locker-settings is missing
<ochosi> if you wanna mention that
<bluesabre> oh yeah
<ochosi> we can drop the screensaver part of lls in 14.10 hopefully btw
<ochosi> all hail xfpm :)
<bluesabre> woot
<ochosi> that is also quite good because it means users have more finegrain control over blanking/dpms again
<ochosi> with on-ac and on-battery settings
<ochosi> so yeah, the lls dialog will shrink
<ochosi> ideally the lock on suspend button will also go away in some way
<ochosi> then there'll only be two more settings left in lls...
<ochosi> elfy: ever heard of slack?
<ochosi> i figured i'd point you to it (since you're the "new team tools" guy). i just started trying it a bit as the elementary folks are using it and invited me to join
<ochosi> https://slack.com/is
<knome> bluesabre, got to get to that later
<elfy> ochosi: no not seen that - and I was then "new team tools" guy once
<ochosi> elfy: once "new team tools"-guy, always "new team tools"-guy ;D
<elfy> no thanks ;)
<ali1234> wheeeeee a bug
<ali1234> apparently my transer will be complete in ~11 million years
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9743
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9743 in core "Thunar incorrectly calc time and file size when copying files" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> ali1234: heh, those dialogs have never spoken "the truth" though
<ali1234> yeah but this is a straight up bug
<ali1234> also network copy is broken
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> i was thinking of this though: http://xkcd.com/612/
<ali1234> when it fails to copy a file, it delete the failed copy, then uploads it again under a temporary name, then copies it to the correct name. the copy downloads and uploads the file again.
<ali1234> that is probably a gvfs bug though
<ali1234> 11 million years is blatantly an integer overflow...
<ali1234> the estimate can be innaccurate but not *that* innacurate
<ochosi> :)
<ali1234> this happens because it thinks the download is more than 100% complete
<ochosi> elfy: thanks for adding the links to the agenda, i guess i was too lazy for that... (as was Unit193)
<ali1234> which is a bug in itself not related to the time calculation
<ochosi> so it's a combination of a thunar bug and a gvfs bug
<ali1234> nah, they are two different bugs
<ali1234> when thunar retries a download, it doesn't subtract the failed bytes from the total transfered amount
<ali1234> and when you move/rename a file on a gvfs samba share, it downloads the file and uploads it again under the new name, which is incredibly innefficient
<ochosi> yeah, that would explain why i've always used scp or rsync for remote transfers in lieu of thunar
<ali1234> either one can be reproduced separately
<ali1234> i just happened to hit them both at the same time
<Unit193> ochosi: Hmm?
<ochosi> Unit193: the meeting page, nvm
<Unit193> I won't be there.
<elfy> it'll go on the m/l 
<Unit193> Just informin'
<elfy> I doubt very much if you'll be the only one
 * ochosi will try
<elfy> ochosi: you expecting a vote for inxi and hexcaht?
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> well, let's say i hope there won't be votes, both seem straightforward changes
<Unit193> Should I say I'm +1 both?
<elfy> ochosi: really?
<ochosi> yeah, not bad
<elfy> hexchat won't get a +1 from me atm - even if it is active
<ochosi> elfy: well i presume you'll raise concerns about hexchat, but inxi seems straight forward
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> thing is, i don't use xchat or hexchat and haven't used graphical irc apps for a loooong time
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> i'm even wondering whether we should ship one at all, because we have pidgin and all
<elfy> one of those things I guess
<elfy> I wonder why we ship gimp - never use that :)
<Unit193> Hey andrzejr: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10509 and https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10627 have patches in them that are fairly well tested (they're in Xubuntu), would you consider pushing?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10509 in General "Set as wallpaper doesnt work (xfdesktop-4.11)" [Normal,Reopened]
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10627 in general "Use the new Gtk3 bookmarks location" [Normal,New]
<Unit193> ochosi: Pidgin isn't IRC.
<elfy> but it *works* for it 
<ochosi> Unit193: pidgin might not *be* irc, but it does it
<ochosi> thing is, we want a lean package-set still
<ochosi> irc is mostly there for support, it's not "productivity"
<ochosi> so as long as it works...
 * ochosi quietly apologizes for the implicit flip-flop on his earlier "both seem straightforward" position
<elfy> lol
<Unit193> I'm still +1 to both, but dropping one doesn't sound too bad.
<ochosi> i guess we could try to figure out whether we can set up pidgin easily so that it does what we want
<ochosi> (connect to freenode and open #xubuntu, e.g. when clicked from the slideshow or whatever other place)
<ochosi> Unit193: care to take a look at that ^`?
<ali1234> pidgin is best irc
<ochosi> ali1234: can we set up the config for it to do that by default though?
<ochosi> seems with xchat it wasn't possible and it isn't with hexchat either
<Unit193> Because of a shared repo with Ubuntu.
<ali1234> probably not
<ali1234> i think we should ship seamonkey instead of firefox :)
<elfy> I vote for IE6
<Unit193> Opera.
<ali1234> it's faster, smaller, uses gtk2... unfortunately it's not in the repos :)
<Unit193> I rather like Xombrero, personally.
<ochosi> oh lord, what have i done...
<Unit193> ochosi: Started browser wars.
<elfy> ochosi: you said it was straightforward - remember not to do that again :p
<Unit193> So much worse than libreoffice vs gnome office.  Next up, text editor wars.
<elfy> anyway - I'm done for today - cya tomorrow
<ochosi> Unit193: well for text editors we at least have a xfce app
<Unit193> ochosi: Midori.
<ali1234> what is the mate gedit fork called? we should ship that
<Unit193> gmate
<ochosi> Unit193: midori isn't xfce anymore
<ali1234> no, pluma
<Unit193> ochosi: Still developed by the same people, IIRC.
<Unit193> But anywho.
<ali1234> i drank some mate the other day. it is weird
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, well, pretty much. i wouldn't mind that, but we'd also have to switch to a different email app
<ali1234> when you brew it, it's bright yellow
<ali1234> but if you leave it for like half an hour it turns bright green
<Unit193> ...That's worrying.
<ochosi> yeah, mate tea is great
<ochosi> has lotsa caffeine
<ochosi> yummy
<Unit193> ochosi: I was kidding, midori isn't so great and is outdated in Debian.
<ali1234> tastes exactly like green tea
<ali1234> probably similar caffeine content
<Unit193> Has anyone helped review the Suite C testcases?
<ochosi> Unit193: humm, the ones in the staging ppa all failed to build
<ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/xubuntu-staging
<Unit193> ochosi: Talked to blues last night about that, xfpm is a weird failure that I should fix, parole was a stupid mistake on my part that's been fixed.
<ochosi> ah cool
<bluesabre> hey guys
<ochosi> righty, so i've tested slack for a day, not too bad, i have to say
<ochosi> intuitive ui and good overview, history search etc
<bluesabre> cool, does it do much more than irc + google drive?
<ochosi> the history-search is quite useful
<ochosi> and the backlog is endless
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> so ppl don't need a remote login in order not to miss anything
<ochosi> i think you can also somehow group conversations with a topic or something
<ochosi> haven't looked into that very much though
<Unit193> You said slack, I'm thinking OS.
<ochosi> right yeah, not that
<Unit193> ochosi, bluesabre: You haz mail.
<knome> pleia2, marketing lead: https://twitter.com/Avanninen/status/477714055520862208
<Unit193> bluesabre: Danke.
<bluesabre> Unit193: sure thing
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-25
<Unit193> And, I'll presume we're going to stick with 'maybe-ubiquity'?
<Unit193> I should say my reasoning, too.   So yes it gives a prettier selection, but it does make it harder to get people to add boot options when there's a problem booting.
 * pleia2 follows up
<Noskcaj> afternoon elfy 
<Noskcaj> Any idea if xfpm is stable enough for 14.10?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, same question to you
<elfy> no idea 
<ochosi> Noskcaj: if you're referring to 1.3.0, it still has a few quirks (some of them already ironed out in git) but it's at least as stable as 1.2.0 and we can then get rid of our patches
<ochosi> so yeah, i'd say let's go for it
<ochosi> furthermore, as i'm personally involved in making it stable, i think we'll make it really a lot better until 14.10 gets out
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> morning elfy 
<Noskcaj> ochosi, ok. thanks
<ochosi> brb
<Unit193> Well that's a hint if I ever saw one. ;)
<ochosi> good news, i'm gonna make it for the meeting
<elfy> meeting?
<ochosi> isn't that today?
<ochosi> in like 30mins
<elfy> :)
<elfy> yea it certainly is 
<ochosi> good good
<ochosi> brainwash: only to be sure, you said you were going to do a MR for the settings manager items showing up in whiskermenu?
<Noskcaj> crap. meeting in 30 min? I'll try
<elfy> so will I 
<ochosi> !team | reminder: meeting in 25mins
<ubottu> reminder: meeting in 25mins: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<ochosi> gah, i have a really serious lag here :/
<elfy> that'll be ok - I'm running the meeting - it'll not be very quick 
<ochosi> :>
<Unit193> Anything super important for me to be here ?
<elfy> not that I'm aware of
<ochosi> Unit193: the specs at least
<ochosi> either way, if you can make it, please stay, if not, nobody can force you ;=)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looks like xfpm can be counted as verified.
<elfy> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 25 10:00:55 2014 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ochosi> !team | meeting time!
<ubottu> meeting time!: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> ok - so who is here 
<ochosi> o/
<elfy> #chair elfy 
<meetingology> Current chairs: elfy
<Noskcaj> o/
<elfy> #topic Open action items
<elfy> all we've got here are the 2 specs for Utopic 
<elfy> #subtopic Inxi
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Inxi
<ochosi> right, i'm in favor of adding it to the default seed
<elfy> I am too
<ochosi> it's not really heavy and might help a lot with debugging issues
<ochosi> so in a way, it seems like a no-brainer to me
<Unit193> Only bad thing is lm-sensors.
<ochosi> that's a depend?
<ochosi> or a recommend?
<ochosi> what's the downside of lm-sensors (apart from it not working for every hardware)?
<Noskcaj> +1 to inxi, although some of it's depends could use a merge from debian
<elfy> ochosi: seems to be a recommends
<ochosi> Noskcaj: which ones specifically and why?
<Unit193> ochosi: Runs an init script (only sets, so it's a oneshot not daemon)
<Unit193> Noskcaj: ...It's sync'd from Debian...
<Noskcaj> ochosi, lm-sensors is near always a bugfix release behind debian. I'm not sure it's an issue though
<ochosi> i see, any other downsides that should be taken into account?
<Unit193> People use it wrong? :P
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> fine, we need to write some docs for it, is what you're saying i guess
<ochosi> add it to the FAQ or xubuntu-docs
<ochosi> slickymaster: thoughts on this ^ ?
<Unit193> FAQ, docs I think would be way overkill.
<ochosi> ok, suggestion: email to the mailinglist about inxi to give ppl a final opportunity to raise concerns
<elfy> I'd agree with Unit193 
<elfy> ochosi: yep - sounds good to me
<ochosi> if there are no objections within a week, we add it to the seed
<elfy> #action Unit193 to mail the devel list re inxi
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to mail the devel list re inxi
<ochosi> Unit193: mind to write the email?
<elfy> :p
<ochosi> ah, heh, you're way ahead of me elfy :D
<ochosi> (i think i said i have a laaaag here ;))
<elfy> pardon?
<elfy> :p
<elfy> #subtopic Hexchat
<elfy> so - while I'm generally in favour of us moving to hexchat from xchat - the 2 bugs I've reported for it are really quite annoying ;)
<ochosi> right, i was originally simply in favor, i'd like to extend the scope of this discussion to s/xchat/pidgin/ for irc
<elfy> 1 I reported, other was already reported at github
<ochosi> what bugs exactly, elfy?
<ochosi> (best #info them...)
<elfy> #info https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat/issues/1030
<elfy> #info https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat/issues/1008
<ochosi> would you say those are blockers?
<elfy> not sure tbh - xchat doesn't suffer from them
<elfy> the window resizing issue has been marked as an enhancement - no idea what that means 
<ochosi> right, but what other advantages does hexchat offer over xchat (apart from being actively developed)?
<ochosi> Unit193: ^
<ochosi> elfy: i guess it means it's not really considered a bug ;)
<Noskcaj> I dislike pidgin for irc, but as long as #xubuntu is accessible with it, there's not that much point to having an irc client default. If we do go to hexchat though, i'd like someone to investigate some more xubuntu style theming for it (which is supported upstream)
<Unit193> I was sold at "SASL", and I don't use GUI clients so other than that.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Everyone does, it has "security" leaks too.
<elfy> what's the point in having pidgin?
<ochosi> IM in general i guess
<Unit193> To have a reason for -messsages?
<elfy> Unit193: lol
<ochosi> i feel our default app set is pretty much made to mirror what ppl used to have in e.g. winxp
<Unit193> Or, pidgin is for torchat.
<ochosi> i'm fine with reviewing that and considering alternatives, we have a few cycles to experiment now (as we have non-LTS releases ahead)
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> so i'm fine with trying to move away from xchat
<ochosi> and "seeing what happens"
<elfy> personally pidgin is one of the apps I use to make sure that testcases are written right only 
<Unit193> Thought that was gmb...
<elfy> one of the apps
<ochosi> yeah, i never use either of them (pidgin, xchat)
<Noskcaj> I've never used pidgin.
<Noskcaj> Use hexchat a lot though
<elfy> I used to use xchat - I use hexchat now - so having it would make life easier for me :)
<ochosi> Noskcaj: what exactly did you mean with xubuntu styling btw?
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, but you can still "have it" either way, we're really talking about the default for everybody...
<elfy> yea I know ;)
<ochosi> just sayin, that's a very common mixup
<ochosi> s/we/i/ :)
<Unit193> i're
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> If I was going to use one - I'd rather use the one that's actively being worked on
<Noskcaj> ochosi, The hexchat default colours are really ugly and there are ways to set new icons and new colours in the config files
<elfy> which is why *I* moved 
<Noskcaj> Just extra xubuntu-isation we can add
<ochosi> Noskcaj: ok, i guess we can look into that once we've settled on hexchat
<Noskcaj> ok
<ochosi> so what i take away from the discussion up to now is that few of us here use pidgin, so we need to probably try it practically to see whether it could simply be enough by default for irc access
<ochosi> could also be that others in or around the team have used it more
<ochosi> iirc ali1234 and bluesabre used it
<ochosi> imo we should investigate this a bit more and extend the specification to include pidgin
<elfy> having an IM and an IRC tool doesn't really hurt us imo
<ochosi> Unit193: well those are valid concerns (the ones just raised in -ot), but this is only about the average user who uses one channel to get support
<Unit193> I was joking around...
<elfy> ochosi: well if the discussion is about the average user looking for support - the majority of those people turn up with webchat
<elfy> and need neither pidgin or (he)xchat
<ochosi> yeah, i guess we link them to webchat in the installer, no?
<ochosi> i wonder whether we can add a link there to open pidgin instead
<Unit193> And embed on the site.
<elfy> and on xubuntu.org
<ochosi> or even add a link on xubuntu.org to use pidgin as alternative to webchat
<ochosi> although i'm not sure either way whether that'd improve things for anybody :)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> anywho, while "it doesn't hurt" it seems that users aren't using our irc app so much then
<elfy> well - seems that the do we or don't we is the first discussion we need to have - then the hexchat one
<ochosi> do we / don't we what?
<elfy> have either 
<elfy> if we decide to only have pidgin any discussion on hexchat is pointless
<ochosi> frankly, i guess i need to take those two apps for a spin to be able to seriously discuss them...
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> my input is not very experience-based
<ochosi> so if you're fine with it, i'd like to carry this forward to the next meeting
<elfy> yep 
<ochosi> give ppl more time to test the apps
<elfy> needs to go to m/l I guess so people know we want that input
<elfy> who's going to do that
<Unit193> Not it.
<ochosi> always the one who asks? :D
<elfy> #action ochosi To start pidgin/irc discussion on m/l 
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi To start pidgin/irc discussion on m/l
<ochosi> heh, fine fine
<elfy> thanks ochosi :)
<ochosi> ok, so moving along, i'd like to quickly discuss -core
<elfy> #subtopic -core
<elfy> go ahead :)
<ochosi> well we discussed -core a while ago, it was approved and the idea was it was going to be tested (which is why i merged it into our seed)
<ochosi> so status update elfy/Unit193?
<elfy> I'm waiting for a go really, but we have discussed it off and on over the last couple of weeks
<elfy> though I will say that the chances of getting much testing done is slim even if we ask 
<ochosi> Unit193: ^ ?
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, well actually starting with some testing by you would be quite valuable
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> as you're really experienced with testing, i'd tend to trust your feedback for shipping this initially
<ochosi> it'll have to prove itself in real-word contexts then anyway
<Unit193> ochosi, Kind of waiting on the seed changes for things to go, but we can do it now without the very slim version.  Yeah, I don't see a lot of testing happening either.
<ochosi> s/word/world/
<ochosi> it's not a huge problem though (slim testing), i think we can refine it until the next LTS
<Unit193> Well, it's not like we're exactly shipping it.
<ochosi> but without it being in the seed or an easy install option, it'll never get any testing
<ochosi> so let's really move this along
<ochosi> Unit193: what's needed exactly for the seed changes?
<Unit193> ochosi, You can install it now with tasksel.
<Unit193> ochosi, Remember, there was two ways to install, recommended and not so recommended. ;)
<ochosi> right, is tasksel enough for you elfy?
<elfy> probably
<Unit193> ochosi, Also, for super slim, that'd need an xubuntu-meta upload.
<ochosi> right, can you poke e.g. Logan_ or some other sponsor about that?
<elfy> Unit193: if we liase on this before the next meeting we should have some sort of result 
<ochosi> i've merged it already, so it's approved, i guess it just needs a sponsoring request
<Unit193> ochosi, After we add inxi and maybe hex?
<ochosi> right, if hexchat takes longer though, i wouldn't wanna wait for that
<Unit193> elfy, Sure?  Whatever works.
<ochosi> it's not like we have to limit ourselves *so much* with uploads
<Unit193> Well, get the one change in?
<Unit193> ochosi, Since we have no uploaders that are active?  Kind of do.
<ochosi> actually we got a lot of things sponsored last cycle
<ochosi> i mean, *lots* of uploads
<ochosi> i don't see us having that kinda throughput ahead this cycle
<ochosi> simply look at how empty most of our blueprints are
<elfy> yep
<Unit193> Alright...
<ochosi> so let's give it a week for inxi and then move along with inxi+core
<ochosi> i mean for a xubuntu-meta upload
<ochosi> elfy: can you take this down in trello plz?
<Unit193> xubutrello: card 64 link
<xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/nZWgYTb2/64-xubuntu-core-call
<ochosi> uuh, the trellobot magician enters the stage :)
<elfy> added a card for inxi
<ochosi> ty
<elfy> anything else for -core ?
<ochosi> no, i guess we just need to make sure to move this along
<ochosi> i really want it in 14.10
<elfy> ok - moving on then ?
<Unit193> It's already in. :P
<Unit193> Yes, please.
<ochosi> actually one more thing, "somebody" should add an FAQ entry for it
<elfy> for -xore?
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> awesome typo lol
<ochosi> :)
<Unit193> If it's words, I'm a bad idea.
<elfy> doc guy then :)
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> #action slickymaster Add core information to FAQ
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster Add core information to FAQ
<ochosi> yeah, let's add another trello card for that (or a comment to the -core trello card)
<elfy> added that to existing card - added docs label
<ochosi> ty
<elfy> #topic Team Updates
<elfy> #info Testing is very quiet, little action happening at all
<elfy> but again that's not just us :)
<Unit193> I ran a quick, live only testcase.
<ochosi> #info ochosi is working towards replacing light-locker-settings with settings in xfce4-power-manager. Might or might not happen for 14.10 though.
<elfy> yea - I've done a few lives/installs in vm
<elfy> not sure we'll get more team updates then :)
<ochosi> so how're things?
<ochosi> i mean in a live session?
<elfy> the odd syslinux bug is gone atm 
<ochosi> iirc we still have a few blockers ahead (that also affect debian), like upower0.99
<ochosi> but i guess upower hasn't been updated yet?
<elfy> 0.9.23-2ubun here
<ochosi> yup, that's the old one then
<ochosi> i think mostly xfce4-session is blocking upower0.99 atm
<ochosi> systemd still hasn't happened i presume?
<elfy> I think that we can safely forget about systemd happening default this cycle at least
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> less problems ahead then i gues
<ochosi> s
<Unit193> Mhmm, still can have fun with it. :P  (Just not too much, gone there myself.)
<elfy> I run it - only had one issue with it - nvidia-prime update fails each time 
<ochosi> btw, has anybody looked at xwayland or xmir at all?
<elfy> not here
<ochosi> #info bluesabre is preparing to apply for upload-rights to the xubuntu package-set
<Unit193> \o/
<elfy> \o/
<elfy> ha 
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> anything else?
<Unit193> Due dates?
<elfy> are there any?
<ochosi> not sure, Unit193 ?
<elfy> I'll be calling next week for the next package test set 
<Unit193> Hah: June 19th :FeatureDefinitionFreeze
<Unit193> xubutrello: due soon
<xubutrello>   ->  1. Suite C call (id: 17) due: 2014-06-30 11:00:00 UTC from list: To Do 14.10
<xubutrello>   ->  2. add inxi to seed then xubuntu-meta upload  (id: 77) due: 2014-07-03 11:00:00 UTC from list: To Do 14.10
<xubutrello>   ->  3. Check Suite C testcases (id: 75) due: 2014-06-26 11:00:00 UTC from list: Doing 14.10
<ochosi> yeah, even if we don't care about that freeze, i guess it's a good point
<ochosi> we should really work towards finalizing our blueprints/trello-cards
<elfy> ochosi: are you going to do what knome did re blueprints - eg grab team leads and check?
<elfy> should be pretty easy this cycle I guess
<ochosi> yeah
<elfy> do I need to action it?
<ochosi> i think i'd want the release team to ack them
<elfy> that makes sense
<ochosi> #action Team leads should try to finalize their blueprints for Utopic until the next meeting (in two weeks) so the release-team can ack them.
<meetingology> ACTION: Team leads should try to finalize their blueprints for Utopic until the next meeting (in two weeks) so the release-team can ack them.
<ochosi> we can always grant exceptions if ppl aren't ready until then, but we should really try to get out of the post-LTS depression/lethargy :)
<elfy>  :)
<elfy> ok - so moving along so Unit193 can not sleep ?
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i guess i also have to take off
<elfy> #topic Discussion
<elfy> is there anything here - or did we just do that :p
<elfy> taking that as a no
<elfy> #topic Schedule next meeting 
<elfy> #action ochosi up to set the next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi up to set the next meeting
<elfy> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 25 11:00:32 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-06-25-10.00.moin.txt
<elfy> thanks everyone 
<Unit193> Not sure if you were here when I said it, but actually keeping up with trello now.
<elfy> I read it I think :)
<elfy> and I assume the 'hint' comment was you being added to one :p
<Unit193> Yeeeep.
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> ah, darn it, forgot about the meeting
<bluesabre> :(
<elfy> logs are up 
<bluesabre> Unit193: so, I can mark them "verification-done" then?
<Unit193> Well, the one I'd say so.
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> ochosi, updated my application
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks, marked lls and xfpm as verification-done since they are both part of the same fix
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbabl
<ochosi> elfy: sorry, had some network outage, luckily only when the meeting was already over...
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> xfce4-panel (NEW) 4.11.1-1 uploaded to experimental by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<ochosi> Unit193: ah nice, can we sync that to utopic or will that happen automatically anyway?
<Unit193> ochosi: Jackson did the merge on the 23rd.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/4.11.1-0ubuntu1
<Unit193> ...And I already PPA'd it for trusty. ;)
<ochosi> ah cool
<ochosi> where?
<Unit193> ppa:unit193/xfce
<ochosi> (you really should ping me or bluesabre about this so we can copy the pkg to the staging PPA and then inform elfy to get at least some testing going)
<Unit193> Uhh, this isn't a testing thing?  Just personal.
<ochosi> this is something that could be considered for SRU to trusty
<ochosi> so it's *not* "just personal"
<ochosi> either way, i have to run now...
<Unit193> Oh, well.  Never thought it'd be SRU stuff.
<ochosi> but let's please keep 4.11 releases that fix bugs on the radar and get them ready for SRUs to trusty
<Unit193> Noted that your interested in new bug fixes.
<Unit193> 're
<ochosi> i'd personally really love it if we could keep trusty's xfce kinda updated and in the end move 14.04.x to 4.12
<ochosi> bbl
<GridCube> how secure is to migrate options from xchat to hexchat? i mean, i have to recreate all my credentials, all my networks and channels settings?
<GridCube> or can i just copy paste some files from the .xchat folder?
<elfy> GridCube: I copied .xchat to .hexchat and then started it up
<GridCube> welp, it doesnt like to use my proxy settings 
<GridCube> and thats as far as i can test them :)
<GridCube> well :P i tried using only hexchat all the ways i could think and it did not wanted to use my proxy
<GridCube_> well, well, well, would you look at this, if i use the default irc.ubuntu.com/8001 port to connect from hexchat it does work
<GridCube_> but the irc.freenode.com/6001 or whatevs do not
<Unit193> 6697 or 6667?
<GridCube_> sure i guess
<GridCube> Unit193, in regard to your question in the specifications, can it be added a new server, irc.ubuntu.com/8001 like xchat has, with the default channels for that server being the recognized flavours? (as http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/derivatives)
<GridCube> that would be 8 default channels for the server and any user from other flavour will be able to choose the channel they want :)
 * Unit193 doesn't know.
<knome> Unit193, oh mi god color
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> knome: I gots in trouble for it. :3
<Noskcaj> Should we be trying to get xfce added to the MRE list?
 * elfy hates acronyms to start with
<Noskcaj> Micro Release Exception. Pretty much all xfce microreleases could be SRUed whenever they come out
<elfy> thanks Noskcaj :)
<Noskcaj> np
<elfy> :)
<elfy> Noskcaj: logs of the meeting went up by the way
<Noskcaj> i'll check the second half of it then
 * elfy is glad he gets a long rest from chairing those
<ochosi> Noskcaj: that sounds like it makes sense
<ochosi> especially as xfce is mostly micro-releases these days :p
<Noskcaj> I'll try and get it added then.
<ochosi> thanks Noskcaj!
<ochosi> that means more or less automerge from debian as soon as 4.11 releases come out?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, yep. Pretty much we can SRU any microreleases as long as they still have their basic functions working
<ochosi> sounds good to my ears
<Unit193> But chances of getting it...
<elfy> will get better as we have people who can do things for us?
<ochosi> i guess so
<ochosi> otoh having an uploader also means having half a developer less
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I think we've got an ok chance. Active testing team, and gnome and kde both have MREs already
<Unit193> Ah, ok.
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, that would be awesome
<elfy> would be even awesomer when you're one of the "people who can do things for us?" :)
<bluesabre> elfy, working on that
<elfy> I know :)
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> I'd comment - but wouldn't mean much :(
<bluesabre> you're the qa lead, surely that accounts for something :D
<ochosi> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi, comments? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis/DeveloperApplication
<ochosi> for quality? :)
<ochosi> yeah, sry, was out all day...
<ochosi> (after the meeting that is)
<bluesabre> its cool, I was too
<bluesabre> and missed the meeting 
<ochosi> but yeah, i'll get right to it
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> I could comment I guess
<elfy> certainly haven't got any reason to NOT do so 
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, do you know if there is a similar policy for updates that are *only* translations? I would imagine those can sidestep the SRU procedures
<Unit193> bluesabre: When's your meeting?
<bluesabre> Unit193: haven't scheduled one yet, was hoping to collect some key comments before poking
<knome> bluesabre, i'll try to schedule some time for that tomorrow
<bluesabre> knome, thanks :D
<ochosi> just so you don't wonder, i'll be moving the day after tomorrow, so until monday or tuesday, i'll only be available very occasionally
<ochosi> after that, i should be back on a more stable basis
<ochosi> meanwhile, good night and good luck everyone :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-26
<Unit193> @^!%#$@#!!!  forestpiskie: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases/1562/results It's alright that it has you use what I'd presume is the applications menu rather than whisker, since it's only testing the panel, right?  And, adding a panel test repeats itself.
<meetingology> Unit193: Error: "^!%#$@#!!!" is not a valid command.
<Unit193> I don't personally like that it has you open and close the window about 10 times, but meh.
<Unit193> ochosi: Did that description help?  Desktop's common useage isn't for videos and pictures, thus large thumbnails aren't necessary.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Show me an example translation update
<Noskcaj> Although i'm not sure the exact policy, if the package has an MRE it would include it
<Noskcaj> I'll add a comment to your developer application too
<Noskcaj> So our upower patch *should* make it safe to drop all upower code from xfce4-session\
<Noskcaj> I'll get my PPA finished then could we have some testing to be sure?
<Noskcaj> elfy ^
<elfy> I guess so - but I was really hoping that we could get away from ppa's from here there and everywhere and using the xubuntu ones 
<Noskcaj> I've not got -devel access yet, plus this PPA isn't xubuntu specific
<Noskcaj> I have to go, i'll be back later
<elfy> ok
<elfy> hi xnox 
<xnox> elfy: hey!
<elfy> how's things - busy busy busy I suspect :)
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, sorry, haven't gotten to it yet
<Noskcaj> ppa:noskcaj/upower should be ready for xfce testing
<Noskcaj> ping me if i need to update the gnome-settings-daemon version
<bluesabre> hey Noskcaj, don't have one ready, was planning on shipping translation updates for each of my apps before 14.04.1.  They only differences are updated .po files
<bluesabre> I can bug the ubuntu-devel guys about it
<knome> bluesabre, i don't think translation updates are traditionally landed as SRU's, but that shouldn't stop you from asking
<bluesabre> knome, can you add importance to these?  They've gone largely ignored for a while now...
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1331871
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1331871 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please backport lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.5 to trusty" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [Undecided,New]
<knome> if you've followed the SRU process correctly, and nothing happens, poke the right people
<bluesabre> I cannot proceed, they have to be uploaded to trusty-proposed before the SRU process begins
<knome> eg. if it's verificated, check who's the SRU person for today on the SRU process wikipage and poke then
<knome> aha
<knome> so you need sponsoring?
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> well then follow the sponsorship procedure
<bluesabre> I have
<bluesabre> I'll email some sponsors directly next
<knome> do the sponsors have a mailing list? try that first.
<knome> bluesabre, are your bugs fixed now by colin?
<bluesabre> knome: yay, black screen bug is fixed
<ali1234> did we get reports of mplayer crashing when you switch virtual desktops?
<ali1234> it's caused by this: https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/532671/mplayer-vdpau-is-not-stable-when-switching-fullscreen-state/
<ali1234> it's an nvidia bug
<elfy> I've not seen any ali1234 
<ali1234> i thought i saw some on launchpad
<elfy> there might well be - I only see bugs that come through to m/l
<ali1234> well anyway the workaround is to not use vdpau video playback
<ali1234> or turn off compositing
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/85017/ ?  Not really sure what's all needed to be said.
<elfy> perhaps ask team to try it *shrug* 
<Unit193> "You're encouraged to try this tool out as it's in Saucy and above,...."
<elfy> yea - but that could be anyone that reads the mailing list - not [team] 
<Unit193> >_<
<Unit193> s/You're/Team members are/
<elfy> did I not read it properly? 
<elfy> can't see now - stupid openstack server error
<Unit193> http://paste.debian.net/hidden/9264b77d/ With your ideas.
<elfy> looks good to me :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, FYI, backports and SRUs are different things.
<Noskcaj> And in responce to above, i don't actually know. The MRE would only be allowed for xfce itself i think
<Unit193> Sadly, backports are pointless.
<Noskcaj> yep
<Noskcaj> And backport bugs are invisible
<Unit193> Well, his two are SRUs, it's just that it's a full backport and not just a patch.  Backports are fine, but "Backport" normally means into release-backports which is pointless.
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, Unit193: right, SRU packages backported from their Utopic counterparts
<bluesabre> for -updates
<Unit193> bluesabre: Was dicussing the difference between a backport, and a SRU backported package.
<Unit193> !backport
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<Unit193> ^ Backports is useless, while SRUs are useful.
<bluesabre> yes
<Unit193> OK, good.  Now you understand me. :D
<bluesabre> thanks Noskcaj, btw
<knome> Unit193, not completely useless, but... yeah, very irrelevant for most people
<Unit193> knome: Unless it's a new package, backports is pinned at 100. :?
<knome> and?
<knome> backport > random PPA
<Unit193> knome: Nice message to the list, btw.
<bluesabre> but random ppas are awesome
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> They are pinned at 500. :P
<Unit193> knome: "Leader of Shimmer Project and Xubuntu" might need updated?
<knome> hmm, that must've been left on my laptop
<knome> will look at it tomorrow, thanks for the heads up
<Unit193> bluesabre: Most of my random PPAs are mine. :D
<knome> Unit193, also, yeah, i try to be constructive with my mails...
<knome> ok, i'm off. see you tomorrow or sth...
<Unit193> Goodbye.
<Unit193> Oh, does Xubuntu frown upon the BSD license?
<bluesabre> good question
<bluesabre> no idea
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Come on, man!  You're the tech lead! ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: I think ochosi wanted me to ask you to copy over xfce4-panel to the one ppa?
<bluesabre> I'm not personally opposed to it
<bluesabre> yeah, link?
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/xfce/+packages it's just a backport.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/xfce/+sourcepub/4253675/+listing-archive-extra
<bluesabre> cool, just learned about ppa package copying
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Here's another question: We've stopped using different branches for different releases, or tags, or something.  Is this a mistake?
<bluesabre> not entirely sure what you mean... with ppas, or something else?
<Unit193> 'series', they are called: https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings
<bluesabre> oh right
<Unit193> meta, docs, artwork, default-settings, etc.
<bluesabre> should probably create a trusty branch
<bluesabre> and keep head at current dev release
<bluesabre> Unit193, just the panel?
<Unit193> Everything else is already copied over.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/extras
<bluesabre> not appfinder it seems
<bluesabre> so, panel and appfinder to staging?
<Unit193> Oh, well I don't know.  That was a sync from Debian for myself as well.  Is that what you want?
<bluesabre> might as well :)
<bluesabre> have you found any blockers where I would not want it?
<Unit193> It seems a bit odd at times, but old may have had those issues too.
<Unit193> I got it for the tab feature, but the tab feature isn't there. :(
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> "foss" advertising
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-27
<bluesabre> copied, building
<bluesabre> bbabl
<Unit193> Byebye.
<Unit193> xubutrello: card 69 add member ochosi
<xubutrello> Added "Simon Steinbeiss" to card "Prepare shimmer-themes for Gtk3.12".
<Noskcaj-school> So i've got a reply to the MRE request. http://paste.ubuntu.com/7708885/
<Noskcaj-school> Could someone please answer slangasek's questions about upstream that are there
<Noskcaj-school> I assume the list of packages is all of pkg-xfce + eyes-plugin. And maybe bluesabre's packages
<Unit193> http://www.xfce.org/about/releasemodel might be helpful, but wait for an answer from the Xfce contact, ochosi.
<Unit193> Noskcaj-school: whisker? :P
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Yeah, that too.
<Unit193> I was kidding.
<ochosi> morning folks, i'm packing and leaving the appartment in a few minutes/hours, feel free to email me over the weekend with stuff that comes up
<ochosi> mentioned it previously, but will only be around sporadically
<elfy> good luck with that ochosi - have fun :)
<Unit193> Yep.
<ochosi> heh, "fun"
<elfy> well I could have said the truth - but that wouldn't be very nice :D
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> thanks for being so mild-mannered, elfy ;)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> ok, bbl
<Unit193> So now this invites all of us to talk about him behind his back.
<elfy> I thought that was the thing to do anyway now he's xpl :p
<Unit193> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/178806217/thunar-dropbox-plugin_0.2.0%2Bdfsg1-0ubuntu1_source.changes :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: :D
<Unit193> ..What'd I say?
<bluesabre> thunar-dropbox
<Unit193> Oh, OK.  Thanks.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-28
<Noskcaj> hey elfy
<elfy> hi
<Noskcaj> The ppa:noskcaj/upower is ready if you've got someone who can test it
<Noskcaj> Most just does session still work?
<elfy> major b/b issues here I'll be doing nothing 
<Noskcaj> ok
<elfy> Noskcaj: what does ^^ mean?
<elfy> and I'll check it out later today 
<elfy> what should I expect to see that's different though?
 * bluesabre is around
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> what's up?
<elfy> bluesabre: do you know what the Noskcaj upower ppa is related to?
<bluesabre> upower 0.99
<elfy> lol
<bluesabre> its something that we'll be transitioning to shortly in debian unstable and utopic
<elfy> ok - so not a fix - just an updated package?
<Unit193> elfy: Patching all the things so they hopefully work with it.
<elfy> Unit193: thanks :)
<bluesabre> yeah, it directly affects several packages
<elfy> so - basically I'm installing it to make sure it doesn't go belly up on us 
<bluesabre> pretty much
<bluesabre> also gives xfce4-power-manager 1.3
<bluesabre> which is what ochosi has been working on for several weeks now
<elfy> okey doke - I'll check it out later today then
<bluesabre> cool
<forestpiskie> Noskcaj bluesabre - installed PPA, all upgraded
<bluesabre> forestpiskie/elfy, cool, any surprise issues?
<elfy> none at all :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: quick follow-up, have you already submitted your application for uploader?
<andrzejr> not sure if that is still the case with 14.04 but 13.10 installer has allocated too little space to /boot partition. Every now and then upgrade fails because there is no space on disk for kernel images/initrd.
<ochosi> andrzejr: i guess old kernel images aren't autoremoved when new ones get pulled in?
<bluesabre> ochosi: not yet, going to do so tomorrow after i get some things sorted out
<ochosi> bluesabre: sounds great!
<andrzejr> yup, removing them manually with synaptic fixes the problem.
<bluesabre> a knome comment would be cool too
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> knome: ^^ pleeeease...
<Noskcaj> forestpiskie, Sorry i didn't reply, my internet broke, then it was time for sleep.
<Noskcaj> Pretty much just make sure nothing is broken, especially session, which out logind patch hopefully fixed
<andrzejr> another issue: flash-installer does not install the settings panel. Settings panel is needed to switch off hw acceleration. With hw acceleration firefox hangs twice a day (nouveau drivers)
<brainwash> how is that xubuntu specific? :)
<andrzejr> It affects xubuntu installations?
<andrzejr> hmm, disabling hw acceleration in flash player does not fixes firefox freezes. Just had another one.
<andrzejr> Still, it is useful to have flash settings dialog available.
<brainwash> ochosi: http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/im-xfce-power-manager-wird-ab-version-1-3-0-da/
<brainwash> andrzejr: but flash isn't installed by default
<brainwash> so the user decides what he wants to install
<andrzejr> brainwash, sorry, forgot that. Must have installed it on the first day.
<brainwash> besides, I can confirm that hw accel can cause some trouble
<brainwash> but it only should crash the plugin container, not firefox
<brainwash> I guess the main issue is that firefox only works with the old flash plugin 11.2, the newer version for chrome seems to be more stable
<brainwash> you could also test https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin
<brainwash> andrzejr: oh, strange bug 1335414
<ubottu> bug 1335414 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "dropbox icon crashes permanently" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1335414
<brainwash> I tend to change the target to dropbox
<brainwash> does not look like a panel/indicator bug
<andrzejr> how to reproduce it? Is it sync-indicator?
<andrzejr> (indicator-sync)
<brainwash> don't think so
<brainwash> any idea what to ask the reporter to get the right debug info?
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: bah :P
<ochosi> bluesabre: did you ask any sponsors for testimonies?
<ochosi> e.g. dholbach comes to mind
<ochosi> or i dunno, anyone else that you exchanged more than 2lines with :)
<bluesabre> haven't yet, also on my todo... there's a few that have helped more than once
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> that might be more important even than mighty knome's comment ;D
<bluesabre> probably :D
<knome> huhu
<knome> yeah, most definitely
<ochosi> still, get it over with! :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-29
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: done.
<bluesabre> thanks knome
<ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193: folks, parole and xfpm dailies are still failing in -staging, could one of you two take a look at that?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, I'll have a look
<ochosi> ah, thanks Noskcaj!
<ochosi> not sure why i forgot to ping you there :)
<Noskcaj> I don't have time to look into it tonight, but you just need the .m4 macrosto be there i think
<Noskcaj> or a b-dep that gives them
<Noskcaj> (for parole)
<ochosi> sorry, to me that just sounds like jibberish :)
<ochosi> i never really looked into packaging much, and i'll better leave that to others who know what they're doing
<Noskcaj> The first bit at least isC libs gibberish
<Noskcaj> *is C
<Noskcaj> And the xfpm ftbfs looks more code related too
<bluesabre> morning folks
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy, what's up?
<elfy> lunchtime :)
<elfy> bluesabre: got some more upower related upgrades today - not noticed anything untoward
<elfy> though clementine and the way it looks went odd (qt) had to get qtconfig - not sure if that's related to anything in the ppa
<elfy> if it IS then people will see the same I guess
<elfy> hi ToZ :)
<ToZ> hi elfy
<bluesabre> that shouldn't be related to upower at all, so probably just regular odd updates
<elfy> yea - was my thought 
<elfy> so glad I don't do things on the wiki much ... slower than treacle
<bluesabre> yeah, the wiki is awful
<bluesabre> ochosi: fixed parole
<ali1234> can anyone tell me the filesize of xubuntu-14.04-desktop-amd64.iso in bytes?
<elfy> ali1234: wc -c reports 957349888 xubuntu-14.04-desktop-amd64.iso
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> weird, my usb stick doesn't match
<ali1234> it's probably a beta, will download it again
<ali1234> thanks
<elfy> or possibly mine is odd
<elfy> I don't think so though
<Unit193> Ah, daily breakage.
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Looking at the xfpm build issue, what happened to the xfpm-dbus-marshal files?
<Noskcaj> they're in as includes and in the makefile, but don't actually exist
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Created by --enable-maintainer-mode.
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> thanks
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Just realised you have the packaging branch. Could you fix this?
<Unit193> Bit busy right now, and last I knew it actually worked. :/
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> It seems the libs aren't building either
<bluesabre> it's cheating, but this works reliably for parole daily builds, might work for xfpm as well https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/parole/parole-gtk3-debian/view/head:/debian/rules
<bluesabre> instead of using xdg-autogen, use autogen.sh, and append --enable-maintainer-mode to dh_auto_configure as well
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, same issue. usr/libs isn't created
<Noskcaj> I'll look at it again later, but now i have to make my stupid gaming pc work again
<bluesabre> good luck
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-22
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm not sure that copyright notice isn't a tad too extensive. that'd also mean it'll be out of date until a release happens. maybe we can just refer to the git log with a more general note stating that those icons are either created by me or pasi and based on elementary, or are taken from elementary.
<ochosi> i know that the human theme made it that extensive, but look at the general stuff i use for elementary-xfce, documenting every icon-change there would be a huge maintenance effort and i'm not sure it'd really help anyone
<bluesabre> just following suit with the other themes
<Unit193> In case you missed the link, Debian uses the light-locker patch now as well.
<ochosi> yeah, saw that
<ochosi> guess that's good for testing :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i know, still, it feels like a huge effort
<ochosi> maybe it's ok to do it once when i'm done with the theme
<bluesabre> !team | meeting in 5 minutes
<ubottu> meeting in 5 minutes: bluesabre, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> ochosi: just getting my notes in order... the first milestone we're doing this cycle is... what again? :)
<ochosi> b1
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 22 10:00:28 2015 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> !team | time to go :)
<ubottu> time to go :): bluesabre, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> who's here?
<bluesabre> #chair ochosi
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre ochosi
<ochosi> o/
<bluesabre> I'll give folks a few minutes to roll out of bed
<ochosi> :)
<Unit193> Taze 'em.
<ochosi> i thought tazing makes people faint?
<dkessel> i am here
<bluesabre> #chair Unit193
<meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 bluesabre ochosi
<bluesabre> :>
<bluesabre> hey dkessel, Unit193, glad you guys could make it
<bluesabre> alrighty, suppose we can get started
<ochosi> sounds good to me
<bluesabre> #topic Open Action Items
<ochosi> not too many i guess
<bluesabre> - knome to follow-up on the FAQ reboot on ML
<bluesabre> - ochosi to follow up with team leads re blueprints as needed
<bluesabre> news?
<ochosi> i'll keep on following up with team leads, no news from me on this though
<ochosi> (i actually wanted to follow up on -dev a bit, but we can do that in the discussion part)
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> not sure we're making much headway with the FAQ reboot
<ochosi> yeah
<bluesabre> I'm happy to write articles!
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> welcome slickymasterWork
<ochosi> hey slickymasterWork and welcome to the meeting ;)
<bluesabre> #chair slickymasterWork
<meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 bluesabre ochosi slickymasterWork
<slickymasterWork> morning everyone
<bluesabre> good timing too
<slickymasterWork> sorru for being late
<bluesabre> np
<slickymasterWork> * sorry
<slickymasterWork> had a flat tyre on the way to work :P
<bluesabre> I schedule the worst times in the team
<bluesabre> :D
<slickymasterWork> lol
<ochosi> bluesabre: actually we're quite many, so i'm not sure that's true
<ochosi> let's move on?
<Noskcaj> o/
<bluesabre> #topic Team Updates
<ochosi> hey Noskcaj 
<bluesabre> heya Noskcaj
<bluesabre> #chair Noskcaj
<meetingology> Current chairs: Noskcaj Unit193 bluesabre ochosi slickymasterWork
<slickymasterWork> hey Noskcaj 
<bluesabre> welcome to the party
<bluesabre> Development progress is going slowly
<bluesabre> #info feh added to live session to draw the installer desktop, still waiting on branch merge for ubiquity https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubiquity/lp1437180_feh
<bluesabre> #info work started on next version of Catfish (more UI goodies, plugin manager)
<bluesabre> #info xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin has been added to pkg-xfce, and will make it to debian sometime soonish
<ochosi> #info The libreoffice icon-set is closing in on its first release, we'll then try to get it into ubuntu as a separate package
<bluesabre> #info test libreofice-style-elementary at https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ubuntu/daily
<Noskcaj> #info xfpm 1.5.2 in xubuntu-staging ppa, "launch xfpm" bug fixed
<bluesabre> ooh nice
<ochosi> yup, eric release .2 on the weekend (as planned)
<ochosi> thanks for the quick packaging work Noskcaj 
<bluesabre> any other team updates?
<bluesabre> always hard to get good representation from each team
<ochosi> agreed
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: any docs news? :)
<bluesabre> #info knome added some nice graphics to http://xubuntu.org/
<qwebirc855185> damn connection
<bluesabre> it happens
<bluesabre> my internet is garbage where I live now
<bluesabre> any news for documentation qwebirc855185 ?
<qwebirc855185> like I was trying to say I'll start the calls for package translations this week, in the m/l
<ochosi> qwebirc855185: please #info it though ;)
<qwebirc855185> #info slickymaster will start the calls for package translations this week, in the m/l
<bluesabre> good good
<bluesabre> next up
<bluesabre> #topic Announcements
<bluesabre> #info The first milestone we're participating in this cycle is Beta 1 (August 27)
<bluesabre> but... please be sure to be testing the daily images and reporting on any issues found
<ochosi> #info While it has been announced already, let me formally repeat it here: elfy has retired from his QA team lead position and from the Xubuntu team as a whole.
<slickymasterWork> are we planning on running any testing calls on the m/l, bluesabre?
<slickymasterWork> ochosi ^^
<ochosi> i guess we should do that at least for the milestones we're participating in
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: we had one shortly before elfy's retirement, that's the current call for testing
<bluesabre> lemme dig up that mail
<bluesabre> #info current testing status and information https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-June/010798.html
<slickymasterWork> yeah, but I was referring to reminder calls, as we're moving along the release cycle 
<bluesabre> nothing new at this time, but something closer to the milestones
<ochosi> let's discuss that in the "discussion" part ;)
<bluesabre> yes
<slickymasterWork> oki doke~
<bluesabre> #info some (maybe) flavors will be doing the Alpha 1 milestone this week, just as a heads up
<bluesabre> I think that might be it for current announcements
<bluesabre> and nobody is stopping me
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> #subtopic Core as an image
<bluesabre> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/05/29/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t20:39
<ochosi> i read the log
<ochosi> i personally would prefer a separate iso over offering minimal as an option in ubiquity
<ochosi> or: offering -desktop in ubiquity
<ochosi> cause it defeats the benefit of having a smaller download
<ochosi> and downloading all the things for -desktop only when installing makes the installer very slow
<bluesabre> yuuuuup
<ochosi> also, downloading an iso can happen through torrents
<bluesabre> I'd imagine Unit193 and others would agree in this instance
<slickymasterWork> I do agree 
<ochosi> so "patches to livecd-rootfs, ubuntu-cdimage and debian-cd"
<ochosi> Unit193: can you work on that ^ ?
<bluesabre> #nick xubuntu-dev
<ochosi> if so, i think we could split up that xubuntu-core workitem on the blueprint in multiple ones
<bluesabre> #action xubuntu-dev to review requirements for xubuntu-core iso, investigating patches to livecd-rootfs, ubuntu-cdimage and debian-cd
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-dev to review requirements for xubuntu-core iso, investigating patches to livecd-rootfs, ubuntu-cdimage and debian-cd
<bluesabre> Unit193 can claim that when he's around again
<ochosi> from my pov we can reconsider the name, as infinity implied, but keeping it as ok as well
<bluesabre> but that way we keep it on the radar
<ochosi> since we've already announced it as -core i think it
<ochosi> 's okayish
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> we existed before snappy :D
<ochosi> yeah, that doesn't really help our case though
<bluesabre> or at least before it was announced
<dkessel> xubuntu-mini might still be less confusing
<bluesabre> yeah
<slickymasterWork> besides, -core is way more self-explanatory 
<bluesabre> but mini iso already is a thing too
<bluesabre> these are probably minor details though, with the larger task being the patches above
<bluesabre> so, ready to move on to the next discussion?
<ochosi> yup
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<bluesabre> #subtopic Status and plans for the QA subteam
<dkessel> i put this item in the agenda because i was worried that except for the testing calls, nothing much might happen without elfy, because other team members have enough work for themselves already
<bluesabre> dkessel: thanks, it needed to be in the discussion for sure
<ochosi> well, one aspect that might actually help is that we switched away from following test-cases
<ochosi> that took a lot of discipline and was an extra effort for team members
<ochosi> i'll likely be using wily soon on a sort of daily basis, so there'll be no problem with doing the drive-by testing
<ochosi> but yeah, having a leader for the QA subteam is important
<ochosi> personally i'd appreciate it if we could find an interim lead for the rest of the cycle
<dkessel> i think doing the item for getting results for the automated image testing will be a good preparation for the next lts
<slickymasterWork> yes
<dkessel> or automated package testing even...
<slickymasterWork> you were working on that item dkessel, if memory serves me correctly 
<dkessel> no
<slickymasterWork> hmm
<ochosi> dkessel: are there any work items you would want to take on? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-qa
<dkessel> i think elfy talked to some canonical infrastructure stuff about the image testing
<slickymasterWork> sorry then, I was under the impression that you were
<bluesabre> this sounds like a good effort, especially now
 * ochosi quickly has to run out
<bluesabre> ochosi: coming back?
<bluesabre> or how soon do you need to run?
<ochosi> i can be around a bit more
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> just announcing that
<ochosi> so 5-10mins for me
<bluesabre> I think we should take a look at the automated testing again
<dkessel> arhg connection probs
<bluesabre> and it sounds like we want to improve our automating reporting?
<bluesabre> [knome] Work with the tracker developers to get out more meaningful data: TODO
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, agreed, the question is who has time to do that?
<bluesabre> ochosi: well, with no current qa lead, I think -dev probably needs to step in to some degree to leverage, and it might be a good idea to take this time prior to LTS to get automation off the ground
<dkessel> i can try to contact somebody. not sure how this works then. there was talk about RT ickets or something, which i dont know about
<ochosi> dkessel: would be great if you could start that!
<bluesabre> +1
<ochosi> you can always ask bluesabre or me for help/advice
<dkessel> okay
<bluesabre> awesome
<slickymasterWork> great dkessel, thanks for stepping up
<bluesabre> #action dkessel to investigate automated image testing
<meetingology> ACTION: dkessel to investigate automated image testing
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> perfect, that way we can follow up at the next meeting
<bluesabre> vague, but good
<dkessel> :)
<ochosi> yeah, it's a start ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: we should probably schedule qa things for dev to announce in the meantime, but we can discuss this outside of the meeting later
<ochosi> yeah
<bluesabre> #action xubuntu-dev to help maintain xubuntu-qa in the meantime
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-dev to help maintain xubuntu-qa in the meantime
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<bluesabre> #info xubuntu-dev to help maintain xubuntu-qa in the meantime
<bluesabre> thats more of an info
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> k, anything else, or can i run? :)
<bluesabre> thats probably enough for that topic
<bluesabre> #topic Schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> #info knome to schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 22 10:42:50 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-06-22-10.00.moin.txt
<ochosi> perfect, thanks bluesabre 
<bluesabre> we're done here folks!
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> bbiab
<bluesabre> thanks for coming by
<ochosi> same same
<dkessel> thanks  bluesabre , excellent meeting time btw ;)
<slickymasterWork> thanks bluesabre 
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> thanks!
<bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings updated
<dkessel> mhh is there a way for any of you to see open RT tickets for "us"? balloons writes there should be a ticket for the automated image testing infrastructure stuff...
<dkessel> i don't have any number / exact reference to it though yet...
<pleia2> you can log in to rt.ubuntu.com with your ubuntu SSO and search
<pleia2> sometimes they're made private and I can't find them, but usually some digging finds things
<dkessel> okay
<pleia2> oh, hello bot
<dkessel> oops. bad SwissBot :)
<drc> no swiss biscuit!
<knome> hey people
<bluesabre> hey all
<knome> hello sean
<bluesabre> hey pasi
<bluesabre> wb
<knome> thanks ;)
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> hey simon
 * ochosi didn't know it was realname-night
<ochosi> hello sean and pasi (and everyone else)
<knome> me neither until i started it :P
<ochosi> i see
<knome> you know, life and circumstances
<bluesabre> :D
 * knome tries to be even a bit more ambiguous and cryptic next time
<bluesabre> here comes the fi xubuntu-dev localization
<knome> hah
<bluesabre> :D
<drc> fi?  huh, I never saw the if....
<ochosi> btw, are any of you running wily on a sort of daily basis yet?
<knome> nope
<bluesabre> not yet
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether to start off with a vm
<ochosi> or a real install
<ochosi> but if none of you was brave enough...
<ochosi> ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> well, wily is likely very broken still
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> in that case i'll do vm
<bluesabre> I'm waiting a bit longer
<knome> pre-alpha stage and all
<bluesabre> I know that at the end of next month windows will screw up my boot loader
<ochosi> from what i read gtk3.16 has landed
<bluesabre> oh good
<ochosi> that would be my main interest
<bluesabre> plenty of gtk3.16 bugs for you to look at
<bluesabre> that I never reported... :(
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> thought so ;)
<ochosi> that's why i felt i need to check it out myself
<ochosi> well, ultimately i have to anyway...
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> open mousepad and a sizeable text file to get started
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> bluesabre, boo
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i presume you won't be starting with the gtk3 port of xfce4-settings anytime soon?
<bluesabre> yeah, thats probably the case
<bluesabre> its a large "app"
<ochosi> heh, yeah...
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-23
<Unit193> Yes, you can ignore it though if you'd like.
<Unit193> New simple-scan drops gnome-common! \o/
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> bluesabre: just tried wily in a vbox and i don't see any grave issues with greybird and gtk3.16 so far. also, the greeter theming/config is borked
<ochosi> bluesabre: what i noticed though is that the popovers have animations now, and yeah, ofc the new scrollbars. those might need some theming work, but generally they look ok and i presume they work as intended
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-24
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll have to check it out then... its definitely screwy on my vivid+gtk3.16 box
<bluesabre> re the greeter, its a known issue, and there is a workaround
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1460303/comments/6
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1460303 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "(15.04) lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings configures a white background and ignores my image" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> "downgrade" :---D
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> You know, it's harder to troll/make comments when the Xubuntu devs are the actual upstream maintainers...
<bluesabre> >.>
<bluesabre> maybe I should go ahead and fix it myself
<Unit193> What about the dialog box flicker?
<Unit193> Started in 2.0.0 I believe, a bit annoying IMO.
<bluesabre> haven't seen a flicker
<Unit193> I see it in Xubuntu and Debian.
<bluesabre> when does it happen?
<Unit193> It is the login password prompt, right when typing your password and hitting <Enter>, it'll go away, flash up for a split second, then disappear again.
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> never noticed that before
<bluesabre> ever file a bug?
<Unit193> "Yes"
<bluesabre> :\
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=786620 heh.
<ubottu> Debian bug 786620 in lightdm-gtk-greeter "lightdm-gtk-greeter: Login screen does not display background graphics" [Normal,Open]
<bluesabre> that might be the previous image not being cleared on the screen
<bluesabre> the "flicker" that is
<bluesabre> I might be able to fix that
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> It's minor, but a bit annoying.
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I'll also try to fix the background drawing without the workaround
<bluesabre> might not happen tonight, but I think that's my immediate goal
<Unit193> Heh, yep.  More annoying.
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe you can just post some issues/screenshots of your issues and i'll check what's up with it in wily
<ochosi> lunchtime, babl
<ochosi> bbabl
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Good plan.
<ochosi> bluesabre: feel free to create a workitem on the lp bp as well
<bluesabre> done
<bluesabre> bbl
<Unit193> Oh gosh, two trackers.
<ochosi> yeah
<Unit193> Plus junk/todo.txt :3
<bluesabre> one's easier for comments
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> One gets tracked in here, one via my email. :P
<Yanpas> Hello everybody! Recently xfce leader  Olivier Fourdan has fixed old annoying bug: tearing of xfwm4 compositor! https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10439 
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10439 in General "Use GLX for compositing instead of Xrender" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Yanpas> What does it mean for Xubuntu? New xfwm4 should be compiled with libepoxy-dev and libepoxy0 should included to Xubuntu
<Yanpas> 15.10 of course
<ochosi> Yanpas: hey. yes we're aware of that and i presume that'll land in wily (if it hasn't yet)
<Yanpas> good to hear :)
<Yanpas> And what is the status of QT icons support and theme? (In 15.04 QT apps gtk+ theme was fixed by saving qt4-qtconfig file, but it's no the correct way, just temporary workaround, cause both icons and theme work in trusty qithout any config files in user dir). Icons still unsupported. Is it XFCE or Xubuntu problem?
<Yanpas> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1451993
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1451993 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "QT apps doesn't have icons from theme" [Undecided,New]
<knome> ok, so we got first user telling they use chaletos...
<drc> I saw some discussion the otherday about xubuntu-derivatives...what's the official position, help or no help?
<knome> it's not black and white, but if it were, no help
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://packages.qa.debian.org/e/evince/news/20150624T221919Z.html
<ochosi> Unit193: oh, no more evince-gtk
<ochosi> knome: ping
<knome> ochosi, pong
<ochosi> you around for a bit?
<knome> i guess
<ochosi> motivated too?
<pleia2> drinking
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> that sounds more like it
<knome> awwh, she exposed me
<knome> revealed?
<knome> whatever
<knome> pleia2, tut tut!
<knome> (:
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> <3
 * knome hugs pleia2
 * pleia2 hugs
<knome> ochosi, so, what's up?
<Unit193> ochosi: Hopefully it's not needed, but we'll see.
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> knome: was just wondering whether you wanna work on some stuff together
<knome> hmmh
<ochosi> but if you're drinking, i really don't wanna keep you... ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> icons, likely not
<ochosi> well you still owe me the window-close icon for greybird ;)
<ochosi> we need that for CSD
<knome> wait, why do i owe it to you again?
<knome> none of the other icons are in svg either!
<knome> i mean i'm sure that was part of the problem
<ochosi> cause you made the original and we agreed you'd be most fit to redo it in svg ;)
<knome> exporting an svg didn't look good
<knome> i remember doing some pixel pushing
<ochosi> yeah, but the current icon sucks
<ochosi> even without making it crispy-crisp, it has to be improved
<knome> you need it in the same size?
<knome> and in svg?
<ochosi> i was also considering doing one or two more xfwm4 themes that are greybird-compatible that we can ship
<knome> what does that mean?
<ochosi> for higher res screens and maybe one with thicker borders so ppl with resize problems can use it
<knome> and on the same note, why not the a11y version?
<knome> yeah...
<knome> that's it
<ochosi> i'm just listing stuff that i'd be up for
<ochosi> a11y version is too much work
<ochosi> not exactly an all-nighter
<knome> nope
<knome> but thicker borders can be a start for that
<ochosi> well xfwm4 theme is only a tiny part for an a11y theme anyway
<knome> sure
<ochosi> the real work is elsewhere
 * knome shrugs
<ochosi> mostly in gtk2
<ochosi> but also in gtk3
<knome> yep
<ochosi> might also just draw some more LO icons, i'm almost done with what i wanted to achieve there anyway
<knome> anything else than icon work?
<ochosi> humm
 * ochosi goes to check the blueprints
<knome> heh
<knome> we have the derivative guideline work
<knome> and we might get pleia2 to help
<ochosi> yeah, could also do that
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-derivative-guidelines
<knome> as you see in the pad, i've went through some of the derivatives
<knome> and checked how they've done with our guidelines
<knome> well, the WIP guidelines
<knome> basically voyager is the only one very clearly breaking the rules
<knome> lin4neuro is another that pretty much looks xubuntu with a different app selection
<ochosi> so what is it you wanna do right now, wanna contact the most problematic ones?
<ochosi> or do you want to finalize/publish the guidelines somewhere first?
<knome> probably finalize them
<knome> and get the rest of the derivatives checked
<knome> and do a bit more research on derivatives
<knome> eg. to see if we've missed some still
<ochosi> sounds a bit boring considering the hour
<knome> after that, i'd like to discuss with some kind of group what to do with the derivatives that are clearly breaking the rules
<ochosi> but ok
<ochosi> i guess we oughta get in touch with them
<knome> another thing we need to cover on the guidelines is derivatives for home or very private use
<ochosi> do we need any for that usecase?
<knome> there was a question on the -devel queue about using a modified xubuntu system on a small office
<knome> for like 3 people
<knome> (i replied them)
<knome> well it's probably good to mention that it is ok to modify xubuntu for personal/private use as long as it isn't distributed publicly
<ochosi> right, i don't see any problem with private use
<ochosi> yeah
<pleia2> this is a good document
<ochosi> that's a sentence we can add in
<pleia2> knome: I know you had asked about money/donations whatever, but I'm inclined to ignore it entirely here and handle it privately on a case by case basis
<pleia2> since they really do just need to chat with canonical legal
<knome> pleia2, thing is, many of these derivatives ask for donations
<knome> i'm wondering what we could do
<pleia2> not my job
<knome> one of the options i have been thinking is to ask them to consider tipping the community tip jar back
<knome> even if that doesn't explicitly mean *we* get the money back
<ochosi> yeah, i'm not sure that's really something i wanna get too involved in though
<pleia2> one of the things support from canonical gets us is lawyers, I don't care but it's not my repos/direct resources they're leveraging and slapping their own name on
<knome> yeah
<knome> that's another thing we should discuss
<knome> well, or not
<knome> basically, pretty much all of these are using ubuntu repositories
<pleia2> again, I don't really care and don't want to get involved
<knome> yeah...
<knome> me neither
<knome> but it's good to ack that
<pleia2> if they ask, we'll point them to canonical, but I don't want to initiate the discussion
<knome> they likely won't ask
<pleia2> if canonical has a problem with it, they'll let them know
<knome> yep
<knome> and they likely won't ;)
<pleia2> pretty much
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i'd rather not invest time/effort into "hunting folks down" for little/no obvious benefit
<knome> yeah, that's not our point
<ochosi> ideally yeah, they'd contribute back
<ochosi> but they could've done so in the first place
<knome> yep
<ochosi> personally, the approach i prefer is sending out this questionnaire
<pleia2> I think the point is having a complete document here for derivatives, but I'd rather just ignore it
<ochosi> that might get us somewhere and it's basically already there, so not too much energy has to go into sending it out etc
<knome> the complete document is the main point
<knome> the questionnaire is to try to start some communication
<knome> people can't really lie to us
<pleia2> yay communicatino
<knome> they can't tell they don't point people to our support outlets if they use our slideshow
<ochosi> pleia2: is that spanish for "communication"? :]
<knome> well they can, but we can call them out
<pleia2> ochosi: har, I haven't even had beer yet!
<ochosi> pleia2: that's not my fault!
<pleia2> lol
<ochosi> knome: true, i guess for most you've done the necessary research already
<knome> for some of the derivatives, yeah
<knome> we still have a bunch to go
<ochosi> but doing that research is just really boring and i wonder where it'll get us if we don't act on it
<knome> it likely is somewhat in vain
<knome> but i don't think it's bad to know what people do with xubuntu either
<ochosi> (i mean, maybe not the most boring thing i can imagine, since it's interesting to know... then again, i can imagine more constructive things to do)
<knome> for example, pretty much all derivatives use the whisker menu
<knome> so using it is likely a good idea
<knome> or at least something the derivatives agree on
<ochosi> right, we got no complaints about that one
<ochosi> at least none that i heard/red
<ochosi> read
<knome> yep
<knome> there is that one list too
<knome> "Packages with Xubuntu branding"
<knome> i need some insight to that from you/sean
<Unit193> :3
<knome> and Unit193 of course
<knome> ochosi, remeber that we practically tell them to not use the *name* xubuntu either, so it needs to be a nasty purge :>
<knome> so, onto specific problems....
<knome> 1) voyager uses our installer slideshow; this is something i wouldn't give rope on - it needs to go
<knome> 2) uxubos (http://sourceforge.net/projects/uxubos/) is problematic on several levels
<knome> it claims to be a "respin" (which isn't a good/supported term) and implies to be "up-to-date"
<knome> the latter can be interpreted as "xubuntu isn't up-to-date (or safe)"
<knome> it also uses the xubuntu branding without the slightest intention to hide it
<knome> and the long-version name "updated xubuntu os" is against the trademark laws
<knome> if you asked me, i would rather just ask the person running it to stop doing it completely
<knome> but of course they can keep on doing it - under a different name and with no xubuntu branding
<Unit193> There's a few stray icons, I'd put them in the 'meta' xubuntu-artwork.  You also mentioned xubuntu-docs, I don't like the restriction personally on this even though it does have a lot of Xubuntu related stuff, it's valid for basic respinds.
<knome> 3) security onion (http://securityonion.net/) is basically a PPA for ubuntu
<knome> i would be in touch with them and discuss if they really want to go on distributing an ISO
<knome> because then we could - based on our guidelines - likely support the core part of the OS
<knome> just not the PPA
<knome> Unit193, if you are really interested in being very kind to derivatives, we should 1) separate the startpage to another package 2) make sure the documentation doesn't have any mentions to xubuntu and 3) provide the logo from another package and link to it
<knome> my personal opinion is that shipping the xubuntu documentation isn't a huge problem
<knome> shipping the startpage is
<ochosi> humm, i think i'm with pleia2 on this one, i'd rather ignore the derivatives. so far none of them has posed a real problem. as soon as they flood our support ML or channel, i'd probably reconsider. but for now i just see too little incentive (or maybe i'm just tired)
<knome> ochosi, with what exactly? you both said the last thing 15 minutes ago
<knome> ochosi, i think she was referring to using canonical/ubuntu repositories and asking for donations
<pleia2> no, I'm not interested in going after them in general
<knome> using the repositories won't be a problem to us - ever
<pleia2> we should ask them to stop things that actively cause us problems, like using our support resources
<ochosi> well, even following up with derivatives - even with problematic ones like voyager - is what i meant
<drc> And what will you(all) do if you do not ignore them and one/any of them tell you to FOAD?
<knome> i've seen enough support questions from voyager people to start to get annoying
<knome> pleia2, ++
<pleia2> but I won't go on a hunt for people using our logos, because eh
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> that's ok, we can tell voyager to stop pointing at our support resources
<pleia2> we will officially ask them not to on our page, so they will know they're breaking rules (I think they're just unaware)
<knome> pleia2, we'll see...
<Unit193> pleia2: Like all the annoying French voyager users that join #xubuntu...
<pleia2> Unit193: yes, that's really disruptive to us
<knome> drc, you know i don't like that kind of language on this channel.
<Unit193> "Ask nicer"?
<Unit193> :P
<drc> my appoligies.
<Unit193> That is, to ask them nicer? :P
<drc> the question remains.
<knome> anyway, things we need to tackle (imo) are voyager, uxubos (updated xubuntu os) and that weird "xubuntu piqo edition"
<knome> no, i don't think they can say "xubuntu" on the derivative name, that's a bit too far (yeah, it isn't too hard to not do that...)
<pleia2> I don't really have the energy for the latter 2
<knome> who said you should? :)
<knome> i can handle that
<knome> and when i say handle, i don't mean i'll pester them night and day until they stop doing that
<pleia2> heh, ok
<knome> i mean just asking them and pointing out that they really shouldn't do that
<knome> and "here's the derivative guideline document"
<knome> drc, ^ does that answer your question?
<knome> but seriously,
<drc> yes, but what if they continue to ignore it/you?  
<drc> And I am serious.
<knome> even the voyager questions might be more okay on our channel if we actively communicated with the voyager developer(s) about what they are changing in xubuntu etc
<drc> What I'm getting at is you have only one option...sic the lawyers on them....have you cleared this with the lawyers yet?
<knome> i don't know, but it isn't out of question to poke the canonical legal dept.
<pleia2> except in the case of voyager using our support resources, I'd just let the rest go
<knome> we don't need to clear this with the lawyers - canonical owns the trademark "xubuntu" and legally, they need to defend their trademarks
<knome> pleia2, sure, i was referring to those who mention xubuntu in the OS name
<drc> but will they, that's what I'm asking?
<pleia2> we can contact them, explain the rules, and live our life
<knome> well that's constructive
<pleia2> o_O
<knome> yeah, whether canonical legal will or won't do something isn't to my interest
<knome> drc, whether canonical legal will or won't do something isn't to my interest
<knome> but from a common sense point of view, if i was a derivative developer, i'd think twice changing the derivative name if somebody said they'll notice a legal department about a potential trademark breach
<knome> and no, my intention isn't to scare derivatives off
<knome> i'd like their developers to hang out on this channel (and be active enough that we knew who they were)
<Unit193> Wait, so they can't say "derivative of Xubuntu"? 0_o
<knome> they can.
<Unit193> So, I read what you said wrong then.
<knome> but the derivative name can't be "Xubuntu Piqo Edition" (for example)
<Unit193> Right.
<Unit193> A-ok.
<knome> nor can they say (or imply) that they are a respin or any other official variant of xubuntu
<knome> which is what uxubos and voyager might be doing
<knome> uxubos because what they tell they are (and the name) and voyager, because they use our installer slideshow which says "welcome to xubuntu"
<knome> compare the latter to the documentation, which says "welcome to xubuntu xx.xx documentation"
<ochosi> sry folks, i'm out. too tired, need to get some sleep
<ochosi> nighty!
<pleia2> night ochosi 
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<knome> and the guidelines do say that we try to make removing the branding easy too
<knome> which is what we should try to do
<knome> it's not like we're deliverately hiding xubuntu icons in every possible package
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-25
<ochosi> morning all
<ochosi> status quo of the LO icons: http://i.imgur.com/gjTOzqG.png
<knome> ochosi, pleia2: http://xubuntu.org/?page_id=3352&preview=true
<knome> ochosi, pleia2: ygm re: derivative questionnaire
<ochosi> knome: nice! from my pov you can publish that page as is
<ochosi> form looks good to me too
<ochosi> so +2 from me
<knome> ochosi, even with the "abc" "def" "ghi" list?
<knome> i still want input from you and sean for the packages
<ochosi> you mean the fact that the list is collapsed or the list of packages?
<ochosi> oh, i thought those things were clickable :)
<ochosi> didn't really give it too much thought, just read the text
<ochosi> re: packages: what is ldm-xubuntu-theme?
<knome> Description-en: Xubuntu theme for the LTSP Display Manager LDM is an ssh based X11 display manager, this package contains the Xubuntu theme for LDM.
<ochosi> i guess x-d-s contains some branded stuff like the launchers for the menu for the website etc., but yeah, that one feels like ppl can use it
<ochosi> ok, i have no idea what LDM is and who made that package
<knome> i wouldn't be awfully sorry if we moved that stuff to another package
<knome> "LTSP Display Manager"
<knome> Maintainer: Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
<ochosi> even with xubuntu-icon-theme i'm not sure
<ochosi> i mean yeah, the distributor logo. but again, could be moved
<knome> well that's why i'm asking...
<ochosi> in the end though i'm not sure whether this is really worth it
<knome> it would make me feel warm inside if that helps :]
<ochosi> for one, it's easy enough to modify a package for derivatives
<knome> well basically,
<knome> it would also make the maintaining for us easier
<ochosi> not sure
<knome> if you remember that i've been talking about slight changes to the logo
<ochosi> initially it'd be work
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> this way we only would need to maintain/change one package
<knome> instead of poking many many
<ochosi> you mean "xubuntu-branding"?
<knome> why not
<knome> but sure, i understand the other side too
<knome> it IS work
<ochosi> right, i'd say discuss that with sean, since he'd be the one doing the heavy lifting
<knome> and for example, i don't think we should overcomplicate this for us and start ripping branding off the documentation
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> because that would also mean that we should limit ourselves to not mention the name xubuntu in the docs either
<knome> that is just not realistic
<knome> moving the start page to a separate package, however, might be sensible
<knome> but then i don't know how much difference it would make (except that the start page points to our support channels, so we wouldn't want derivatives to ship that even if shipping the docs would be okay)
<ochosi> i'm ok with any changes that make you feel warm inside as long as i don't have to do the work. and as it happens, this is all in bluesabre's, Unit193's and Noskcaj's department (packaging)
<knome> haha
<knome> yeah, it's not a big thing
<knome> and doesn't have to happen overnight
<ochosi> so for now i guess if you wanna take those guidelines seriously, the package list is fine as is
<knome> it can be a slow transition that gets done while we do other modifications to the packages 
<ochosi> thing is, even the package names contain the name "xubuntu"
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah...
<knome> but as we've discussed
<knome> the point is not to police derivatives literally (as you imply)
<ochosi> i really don't wanna rename them to "bluesabres-preferred-settings"
<knome> it's just to point out that this is our ideal situation
<knome> but they aren't his, they're mine!
<ochosi> :)
<knome> wow, that package (ldm-xubuntu-theme) has an ancient xubuntu logo
<ochosi> can we sue them?
<knome> likely not
<knome> :(
<ochosi> (and yeah, i'm not really surprised that a package neither you nor i really knew about is outdated..)
<knome> i wonder if it really would be a big loss if there wasn't a "xubuntu" LTSP login theme
<knome> This package was created by Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>
<knome> in December of 2007.
<ochosi> i presume many would (silently) weep
<knome> i wouldn't want to keep it as is, because old logos are eww, but i wouldn't want to refresh it, because more maintaining is aargh
<pleia2> knome: lgtm
<pleia2> once we have the list of packages, of course
<knome> yep
<knome> so maybe also time to publish the "developers" menu then
<pleia2> survey looks good too
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> bbl ->
<pleia2> see you
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Are we ok with making libxfce4panel-2.0-dev not depend on xfce4-panel-dev? debian's completely splilt the two packages
<Noskcaj> *split
<knome> bluesabre, oi! i found another dvd that plays on vlc, but problems on parole
<ochosi> knome: so what does parole do/sayÃ
<ochosi> ?
<knome> gstreamer warning/criticals on stdout
<knome> ui just freezes, eg. shows a black screen when the chapter should begin
<ochosi> hm, usually it's just gstreamer
<ochosi> i guess (still) the only way to test that hypothesis is installing totem
<knome> just a minute
<knome> nope, doesn't seem to work with totem either
<knome> looks like the same warnings/criticals
<ochosi> ok, i guess then it's time for an upstream gstreamer bugreport
<knome> i guess so
<knome> i'll worry about that later
<Jesuwope> I installed Xubuntu but it hadn't asked me to set a root password.  How do I go about logging in to root??
<knome> Jesuwope, don't.
<knome> Jesuwope, use sudo
<knome> !rootsudo | Jesuwope 
<ubottu> Jesuwope: sudo is a command to run command-line programs with superuser privileges ("root") (also see !cli). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for more information. For graphical applications see !gksu (GNOME, Xfce), or !kdesudo (KDE). If you're unable to execute commands with sudo see: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/fixsudo
<Jesuwope> fine, thanks.
<knome> and generally, support at #xubuntu
<Jesuwope> oh
<Jesuwope> what about that graphical Xubuntu software install app
<Jesuwope> will that work with my normal user password?
<knome> yes.
<Jesuwope> ok
<knome> but please, let's keep the support questions on #xubuntu
<Jesuwope> ok 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-27
<bluesabre> my internet has returned!
<knome> hooray!
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Is it ok for me to upload hotcorner-plugin to xubuntu-extras?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-28
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: yes, go ahead
<Huemac> Hello. How could I get a simple task to work on? I would like to leave my footprint to the Linux community as I use Debian based distros a lot. I really do like Xubuntu, and I would like to actually do something, rather than make a monetary contribution. I have worked on proprietary software that million of people use. I do not care about QA, but the actual development itself. Where should I start?
<bluesabre> Huemac: You've come to the right place :)
<Huemac> _b
<bluesabre> If you're interested in development, I'd suggest finding a bug that annoys you and offering a patch to get started
<bluesabre> this link might be a good starting place https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<bluesabre> we're moving away from abiword, gnumeric, and gimp starting with 15.10, so those bugs are lower-impact at this point
<Huemac> thanks, I will look at that tomorrow
<bluesabre> awesome
<Huemac> there are some regarding to thunar that I find hard to describe
<bluesabre> feel free to stick around this channel and ask questions... we may not always be around our computer, but most of us have persistent irc connections
<Huemac> mostly network drives
<bluesabre> you might find a bug in Launchpad for that, or in the upstream bug tracker https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&list_id=25503&order=Importance&product=Thunar&query_format=specific
<krytarik> slickymaster, knome: I'm hit by LP bug 84517, and thus I can't seem to be able to file suggestions for these Russian translations of the docs that would change them back to the original string, i.e. package names: http://paste.openstack.org/show/D9T5veLnxiEQhOHbqwpW/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 84517 in Launchpad itself "Saving a translation equal to the original English sometimes doesn't works" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/84517
<Unit193> Noskcaj: https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2015-June/031307.html sources?
<Unit193> (Otherwise I'll just presume you only uploaded it.) You forgot to fill out debian/copyright..
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-27
<ax562> hello
<ax562> hi
<flocculant> hi ax562 
<ax562> how's it going
<flocculant> slowly ;)
<ax562> haha
<ax562> I was trying to zsync last night but was getting error "no zsync" file or something
<flocculant> don't know exactly - I know it's ok today and yesterday morning :)
<ax562> do you have a link for zsync?
<ax562> let me try again in the mean while
<flocculant> if you get something like "No relevent local data found - I will be downloading the whole file." then you're trying to sync in the wrong place
<ax562> not the same error.  i'm in /Downloads where the .iso is present
<flocculant> ax562: I always sync from the 'current' rather than 'today's iso' 
<flocculant> ok - well without being able to see the error - just going to be guesses :)
<ax562> yeah that's why im trying again
<flocculant>  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<ax562> I think i might me using wrong link tbh
<pavlushka> ax562: you can even specify exactly which file to zsync
<ax562> ~/Downloads$ zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/yakkety-desktop-i386.iso
<flocculant> ax562: if you're using a saved sync link - anything before today will have gone
<ax562> that's what I'm trying
<flocculant> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/yakkety-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync
<ax562> oh that will probably be an error for today
<flocculant> or rather zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/yakkety-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync
<flocculant> anyway - bbl
<pavlushka> ax562: use with zsync -i (input file) filename.iso to be specific
<pavlushka> ax562: like zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/yakkety-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync -i localfile.iso
<ax562> zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/yakkety-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync
<ax562> that worked
<ax562> I think I was referencing wrong .iso link
<ax562> now it's actually reading seed file, which it was not before
<flocculant> ax562: if ^^ is what you were doing  zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/yakkety-desktop-i386.iso then that's why, missing the .zsync at the end
<ax562> zsyn rocks!
<ax562> ah I see that
<ax562> duh
<flocculant> :)
<knome> hello ochosi 
<ochosi> evening knome 
<knome> and hooray for iceland!
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> yeah, nice game
<knome> and boo for austria :P
<knome> not a good performance
<knome> anyway, to get back on topic... what's your plans on xubuntu stuff for this cycle?
<knome> *what're
<ax562> bbl
<bluesabre> Evening all
<knome> hello sean
<bluesabre> Hi Pasi
<bluesabre> How's it going?
<knome> good good
<knome> and on that side of the pond?
<bluesabre> Pretty good... waiting patiently for a hair cut
<knome> haha :)
<ax562> hola
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-28
<flocculant> ochosi: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-June/004805.html just in case you're not following that list 
<flocculant> and for all of us - the 32bit or not, that is the question, discussion has come up again - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-June/016661.html
 * flocculant goes back to slumbering in the corner 
<genii> Makes me wonder what 3rd party legacy applications will still be around and marginally useful by that time
 * flocculant wonders that too - but I have pretty simple requirements :)
<Unit193> Nice he checked.
<flocculant> who's he? 
<ax562> hi
<flocculant> hi ax562 
<ax562> sup bro
<ax562> running 16.04 on a new machine and running 16.10 via vb on it?  #GeekMode - God
<flocculant> lol
<ax562> 16.04 is really nice
<ax562> seems faster in general
<flocculant> Unit193: there's a new survey - not majorly public yet, just on m/l - might be worth thinking about us publicising that when it is live on our *things*
<flocculant> ax562: didn't notice that tbh
<flocculant> but then I probably wouldn't ... 
<ax562> probably because these machines are old school
<flocculant> not got the fastest cpu here - but it's not got a starting handle 
<ax562> vb kinds of takes its toll on resources though lol
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> flocculant: i do - thanks for replying there!
<flocculant> that's confused me completely - pretty sure I didn't reply there :)
<ochosi> oh, different email then
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> i guess i should've clicked instead of presuming
<flocculant> aah right - this is the 'oh dear, my themeseses broke again' one
<flocculant> just thought I would highlight it in here - for Justin Case 
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i was expecting ubuntu would go 3.20 in the next release
<ochosi> because laney put so much effort into it
<flocculant> yep - I thought we were expecting that - at least that's what I vaguely remembered
<ochosi> well i also once talked to laney when he said he was very sceptical because he didn't want to negatively affect flavours and they had nobody to port their themes
<ochosi> now he seems to just have done it all on his own
<ochosi> i yet have to test the greybird 3.20 port
<ochosi> it's not really what i want, but hey, i didn't have to move a finger so i won't complain
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> knome: didn't you say you wanted to help with greybird -> sass? :)
<knome> ochosi, maybe... in august or sth
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-29
<ochosi> have any of you guys done some gtk3.20 testing
<flocculant> wouldn't know where to test it from 
<ochosi> there's a PPA for yakkety
<ochosi> ppa:ubuntu-desktop/gtk320
<ochosi> not for xenial (yet)
<flocculant> ochosi: nope - not tested that 
<flocculant> can do though :)
<ochosi> if you do, i guess i should also give you a greybird version along with it
<Unit193> No really? :P
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> no greybird 
<ochosi> here's a branch: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tree/gtk3.20
<ochosi> fwiw, i will most likely drop greybird's current versioning scheme and just align it with gtk3 release numbers
<flocculant> I'll look later - that time of the day again
<ochosi> that way it'll be clearer what greybird version goes with which gtk3
<ochosi> sure, hf flocculant 
<flocculant> mmm - stuck with the old 'what do I do with that then' when I've got it :p
<flocculant> ochosi: didn't bother with the gtk320 ppa yet - seems to just be a bunch of unity and ubuntu packages, certainly not greybird
<ochosi> flocculant: the ppa contains gtk3 itself, which is the important part
<ochosi> and greybird you'll have to install from the branch i linked to above, it's basically not much more than untaring it to ~/.themes
<ochosi> but i'm currently considering to look into backporting that gtk3 PPA to xenial so we can also test it here
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - so some things are rather ewww at a first glance e.g. http://i.imgur.com/uNKZzpH.png
<flocculant> indicator panel, some setting dialogues, some apps (firefox (but that's probably due to the ff which is in that ppa), synaptic, fileroller
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/f9Mx7Lt.png kind of sums it up 
<davmor2> flocculant: eeeewwww
<flocculant> davmor2: but it's ok - party line is blame Canonical :p
<davmor2> flocculant: why it's all imports from debian, blame them :D
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> personally I think I'll blame Gove :D
<davmor2> borris 
<flocculant> as well
<flocculant> ochosi: though I find that if instead of grabbing that and unpacking but git clone it - not the same
<ax562> hello
<ochosi> hi
<ochosi> flocculant: aha, how so?
<flocculant> ochosi: panel is ok now
<ochosi> flocculant: ah ok, now i looked at all your screeners. the indicator stuff is actually sorta expected
<ochosi> really? i'm stunned
<ochosi> what changed between "then" and "now"?
<flocculant> I git cloned instead of downloading and unpacking, logged out - picked the cloned one
<ochosi> you always picked the 3.20 branch though, right?
<ochosi> cause with master it'll just look mostly fugly
<flocculant> authenticate dialogue has no password 'box'
<ochosi> or like the calculator, which is straight adwaita
<flocculant> yea - not picked the normal greybird
<flocculant> yup calc is naff
<ochosi> yeah, i also saw more broken than working stuff tbh
<ochosi> i wonder how ppl on github or fedora can claim that it's "ok"
<flocculant> who knows - I'm with you on that :)
<ax562> source is all bugered up?
<Unit193> GTK3, so of course.
<flocculant> ochosi: oooh - so not actually able to highlight url in browser to copy it to here lol 
<flocculant> bear in mind - some 'new' firefox came from the ppa
<ochosi> yeah, not sure about that one
<ochosi> likely a build with gtk3 enabled though
<Unit193> That's the default though...
<flocculant> yea afaik
<flocculant> i.imgur.com/7SMcojx.png 
<ochosi> ah right, well maybe they adjusted some stuff for the 3.20 changes
<ochosi> that's again adwaita
<ochosi> which means the branch doesn't get applied at all
<flocculant> mmm - ff is pretty lost ... 
<ochosi> Unit193: any idea why a .changes file i supposedly successfully dput to a ppa (at least the terminal says i did, and trying again says it's already there) doesn't show up in said PPA at all?
<flocculant> ochosi: can't cope with that - purging that ppa lol 
<flocculant> I'll set it all up in a vm though
<Unit193> ochosi: 1. Got an email about it?  2. Uploaded it to the right repo?  3. Do you have an .upload file next to .changes now?  4. Right release targetted?
<Unit193> I tried it in Debian, this looks pretty normal greybird I think...
<ochosi> 1. nope 2. i would say yes..? 3. yes 4. yup, xenial
<Unit193> Wait a couple minutes just to make sure.
<ochosi> i pushed it 6hrs ago...
<Unit193> (Because, sometimes LP takes a few...Oh.)
<ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~ochosi/+archive/ubuntu/gtk3.20 is the repo
<ochosi> and i mean there it even tells you the instructions on how to dput
<ochosi> so it's hard not to put it to the right repo
<ochosi> the only thing i can think of is that the "." is not a good idea
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~ochosi/+archive/ubuntu/gtk3.20/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
<ochosi> hardly any PPA has a dot in it (the docs state dots are ok though)
<ochosi> no no, those are just the failed copy-rebuilds from Laney's PPA
<ochosi> my package is -ppa2
<ochosi> err ~ppa2
<Unit193> Ah, OK.  So, try  dput -f  it.
<ochosi> ok, shall i also sudo it or what..? :D
<ochosi> i thought pushing a newer package would automatically push it above the old one
<ochosi> and then that didn't happen so i deleted the other pkg
<ochosi> which is why that build history is a bit misleading now
<ochosi> ok, the output says (again) that the upload was successful
<ochosi> alllllright, i think i might have had a problem with 2)
<Unit193> ochosi: FWIW, I said '-f' because you already have an '.upload' file.
<Unit193> ochosi: What is it you want a screenshot with this Greybird?
<ochosi> yeah, i supposed so. just in a sarcastic mood since i can't seem to get something so easy to work
<ochosi> well one thing is that i wanna find out what the current state of it is with the port of poma
<ochosi> the other is that i need a devel environment if i shall port
<Unit193> Any reason you can't use the other PPA?
<ochosi> yeah, dependency on libwayland-client0 and libmirclient (or something) that doesn't work in xenial
<ochosi> so basically i tried to just disable both backends in debian/rules and that's my "change" for building with xenial
<Unit193> OK, that's a pretty good reason.
<ochosi> hm, anyway, it still doesn't seem to show up there
<ochosi> guess i'll have to wait some more
<Unit193> ...If all else fails, tar it all up and pass it to me?
<ochosi> ok, will do!
<ochosi> i'd really like to learn something here though
<ochosi> (for a change)
<Unit193> Sure, but I'm a horrible teacher.  Also if I can poke it with a stick... :P
<ochosi> i'm ok with learning just very little as well
<Unit193> But nothing you specifically wanted a screenie of?
<ochosi> well sure, if you have one available i'm interested in almost any app
<ochosi> i tried in my yakkety vbox and everything just looked really really broken
<ochosi> (not flocculant broken, cause that was just adwaita, i mean really broken)
<Unit193> ochosi: https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/gtk320_greybird.png
<ochosi> gtk3 terminal?
<ochosi> also, could you give focus to evince? somehow it doesn't look like greybird's headerbar
<ochosi> or maybe it does, just the disabled color is a bit blander than i remember
<ochosi> maybe open a file so i see the scrollbar, that's usually the easiest indicator
<ochosi> and the open-file dialog would be nice to see
<Unit193> GTK2, not touching the GTK3 terminal yet. :P
<ochosi> it's working really ok though
<ochosi> i've been using it for a few weeks alredy
<ochosi> already
<Unit193> ...How the heck do I paste a url into evince?!  Screw it, terminal is better.
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/evince.png https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/opendialog.png
<ochosi> ok, both is adwaita
<ochosi> so it's not working(tm)
<ochosi> or if it is, it's not a port, just a copy of adwaita
<Unit193> Really?  Adwaita is usually more childish.
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> that's it's current look
<knome> its
<knome> :P
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> thank you for your contribution.
<knome> you can't thank me enough.
<ochosi> Unit193: is it possible that LP thought that i didn't change anything and consequently rejected my upload?
<Unit193> It doesn't care.
<ochosi> right, another thing i read in the docs...
<ochosi> then i guess it just doesn't like me
<ochosi> ok, on to fixing greybird with xfce4-notifyd-gtk3 and then i'll do a release of it
<ochosi> ok, finally some support for xfce4-notifyd-gtk3 in greybird
<ochosi> i just wonder whether any of this will still work with gtk3.20...
<ochosi> anyway, night everyone
<Unit193> G'nighty.
<ax562> night
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-30
<ax562> hola
<flocculant> ochosi: fwiw I've got a vm with the desktop ppa and the git greybird now
<ochosi> flocculant: great!
<ochosi> i've also set one up for myself
<ochosi> so far i'm still trying to finish notifyd so we can have a first stable gtk3 release of it
<ochosi> but then one of my next tasks will be the greybird port i guess
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> OK, merging mousepad and fixing that tab close bug while I'm at it.
<Unit193> Anyone else see https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfce4-settings/news/20160612T164056Z.html?  Specifically, 02_enable-crtc added, re-enable CRTC after resume. closes: Debian #785622
<ubottu> Debian bug 785622 in xfce4-settings "xfce4: black screen after resume from suspend" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/785622
<ochosi> Unit193: sorry, not seen it yet, can hopefully take a look one of these days, although maybe bluesabre also wants to take a look at that particular one
<ochosi> also on my way to our summer domicile and packing
<Unit193> I was going to merge it, see what happens.  OK, have fun.
<Unit193> OK, crashing bug confirmed fixed now.
<ax562> anyone use deluge>?
<Unit193> Sure, it's a torrent application, I'm sure many do.
<ax562> in here?
<ax562> I prefer it over transmission
<ax562> but was giving me problems this morning
<Unit193> flocculant: New -settings for you, hopefully.
<Unit193> 4 uploads, can I sleep now?
<ax562> xubuntu never sleeps
<ax562> ;p
<Unit193> So are there technically two black screen bugs or just one?
<flocculant> Unit193: not sure tbh
<Unit193> All I knew is that you didn't have the problem, so can't test. :P
<flocculant> Unit193: not quite the case - knackered laptop is working enough to test a fix for the intel/xorg issue
<flocculant> Unit193: so if there was something in a ppa I could test - just let me at it :)
<Unit193> flocculant: I uploaded it to yakkety this morning actually, xfce4-settings might have something related.
<flocculant> Unit193: oh right - currently that's still on xenial iirc - I can look, but it won't be early tomorrow
<Unit193> I backported it to my PPA as usual of course. :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> Unit193: -settings? I thought this was something awry with intel+xorg? 
<flocculant> unless that's a different thing - and what you meant earlier of course :p
<Unit193> flocculant: Yeah, so did I from the little I saw (so, eg what you said and linked.)  I just saw the changelog and bug, as linked in backlog here.
<Unit193> Figured it's worth a shot, comes free with a merge.
<flocculant> yup - well I'll check that out tomorrow on the laptop and tell you what I find :)
<Unit193> Coolio.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-07-01
<flocculant> Unit193: before I do this later - doublechecking you mean -settings in the daily ppa?
<Unit193> flocculant: No, yakkety proper.
<flocculant> Unit193: okey doke
<pleia2> knome: we should send an email to ack and thank folks for their #lovexubuntu story submissions
<pleia2> I can do it, just wanted to make sure we're coordinated about it
<pleia2> also, share it all the places again
<pleia2> knome: I also figure we can retweet most of the #lovexubuntu hashtag posts even if they aren't strictly stories or images, we want to encourage use of the hashtag regardless :)
<pleia2> http://opensourcewriter.com/xubuntu-xfce-celebrate-milestones/ :)
<Unit193> ochosi: You ever jump to 3.20?
<ochosi> no, i haven't had time to fix my PPA yet
<ochosi> the upload went fine (previously signed with the wrong key)
<ochosi> but somehow i seemingly managed to break the debian/rules file
<ochosi> which seems odd cause i changed so little
<ochosi> (basically just wanted to disable wayland and mir support)
<ochosi> (not even sure debian/rules is the right way to do that9
<ochosi> if you wanna take a stab at it go ahead though
<ochosi> using Laney's PPA for yakkety as basis should make it easy
<Unit193> ochosi: Did you look at the build log?
<ochosi> almost not
<ochosi> which means i saw some error in debian/rules and then i had to pack my stuff and leave
<ochosi> why? did i miss all the fun?
<Unit193> Yeah, the only thing that "went wrong" is symbols disappeared, which is pretty darn expected.  So all you have to do is (basically!)  sed -e /mir/d -e /wayland/d debian/libgtk-3-0.symbols -i  and rebuild. :P
<Unit193> Though not sure why you need to actually disable mir and wayland backends, just different SONAMES in Xenial.  What I'm saying is, you're basically done, just a little more and you'll be entirely good.
<ochosi> yeah, i considered to just lower the versions of both
<ochosi> but since we don't need them anyway for xfce i felt why even bother
<ochosi> anyway, rebuilding now
<ochosi> we'll see whether lp likes it this time
<ochosi> meh, and incredibly slow uplink here :'(
<ochosi> how annoying, uplink is so slow and now i'm doing it the third time already because lp rejected it claiming that was already such a package in the PPA (even after deleting it, i presume it takes too long)
<ochosi> Unit193: ok, i won't wait until the build is done (i'll check tomorrow), thanks for your help! https://launchpad.net/~ochosi/+archive/ubuntu/gtk320-xenial/+builds?build_state=building
<Unit193> Sure, good luck. :P
<Unit193> Missing build dependencies: libwayland-dev (>= 1.9.91
<ochosi> :'(
<ochosi> i guess i overlooked something
<Unit193> It's stuck in depwait.
<Unit193> d/control: Build-depends.
<ochosi> oddly enough i had fixed that before
<ochosi> no idea how that snuck in again
<ochosi> i guess now i would have to delete package again and then it would again complain that there are still some binaries
<ochosi> i'll try to upload again tomorro
<Unit193> You don't have to delete, just as always bump ver.
<ochosi> w
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> could do that too
<Unit193> Otherwise it'll complain.
<ochosi> right
#xubuntu-devel 2016-07-02
<Unit193> yelp (3.20.1-1ubuntu2) yakkety; urgency=medium
<Unit193>   * Make gnome-user-guide or mate-user-guide Suggests. This prevent
<Unit193>     gnome-user-guide being installed on Ubuntu MATE and prevents either being
<Unit193>     installed on Xubuntu.
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> Unit193: so yakkety on laptop ... still no cursor when coming back from suspend after unlocking, nor when coming back from lock
<Unit193> bluesabre: You around?
<Unit193> Logan: Heya.
<bluesabre> Unit193: what's up?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looking at PPA stats and roadmap, going to push for xfdashy in yak.  Want to review/ack?
<bluesabre> Unit193: let's do it
<Unit193> It's currently git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+git/xfdashboard (unless you want to drop being maintained in git), just need to update the VCS fields.
<bluesabre> debian/* looks good
 * bluesabre updates his pbuilder env
<Unit193> BTW, did you try out the newer pbuilder, one with eatmydata support?
<Unit193> (LP 1598503)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1598503 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xfdashboard" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1598503
<bluesabre> Unit193: forgot about it :D
<Unit193> Heh, that's fine, it'd only help you.  I've noticed it speeds up unpackaging build-deps quite a bit.
<bluesabre> "As Xubuntu Technical Lead, I agree with adding this to the archive. This application is pretty popular among our users and would certainly be a welcome improvement for them to not have to install it from a PPA. Our team would maintain packaging and fielding bugs and fixes." - Unit193, sound reasonable?
<Unit193> Yes, yes it does.  Nicely done, danke.
<bluesabre> yay, I did a useful thing
<Unit193> Hah, well you've just been doing useful things in Xfce lately, which is good!
<Unit193> Docs say we need two MOTU, so we ping Logan and someone else too.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-07-03
<ax562> hello
<flocculant> lol at "This message paid for and approved by the Xubuntu developers team."
<ochosi> flocculant, bluesabre, Unit193: just fyi, i've backported gtk3.20 to xenial now (finally, on the n-th attempt), if anyone wants to try it for testing here you go: https://launchpad.net/~ochosi/+archive/ubuntu/gtk320-xenial
<flocculant> ochosi: I'll set up a new vm for xenial then
<flocculant> obviously I'm not using that as a daily machine now
<ochosi> sure, no worries
<ochosi> i just need this for my development now
<flocculant> yep I understand :)
<flocculant> I'm quite happy to check things out when asked of course
<ochosi> sure, i just need to do some initial work
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> crap, now that i have 3.20 on my laptop and greybird is so unusable i guess i will start porting very soon :'(
<flocculant> lol
<ochosi> meh, where did i get my 4.13 version of libxfce4ui from
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> i guess Unit193 or bluesabre would know, but i can't find it for the life of me
<ochosi> Unit193: maybe you can help me out here, did you build libxfce4ui 4.13.0 in some PPA for me? cause if so, i'd appreciate another link to it ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: It wasn't in a PPA, just a random build of it.  I still wasn't fond of the packaging.
<flocculant> morning Unit193 :)
<Unit193> Howdy, flocculant.
 * Unit193 .net/source/
<ochosi> Unit193: any reason it's not in one of our official PPAs (after all, there has been a release)?
<bluesabre> ochosi: broken multi-arch issues
<bluesabre> (is the reason)
<Unit193> It's not pretty. :(
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> so this has to be fixed where exactly?
<bluesabre> ochosi: if I understand correctly, glade
<Unit193> Inb4 'libxfce4ui-glade' :P
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-artwork had 5 updates, showing the latest 3
<bluesabre> blackbird updates :o
<flocculant> you appear shocked to the core :p
<knome> pleia2, ack (and back from the summer cottage)
<flocculant> knome: welcome back from the summer cottage :)
<knome> thank you
<ochosi> Unit193: thanks (again), now the gtk3 ppa is working as it should
 * flocculant updates 
<flocculant> goes looking for ellipses
<proNoobovski> first hi to irc world
<flocculant> knome: well that's boo - but expected
<pleia2> knome: editing http://pad.ubuntu.com/lovexubuntu so we have a consistent+friendly response to the submissions
<knome> pleia2, thanks
 * knome is very tired from today's activities, but will be back on track tomorrowish
<pleia2> okie :)
<knome> i saw all the moderation messages and ughh
<knome> :P
<pleia2> I let all the -contacts ones through
<pleia2> I was in LA most of the week though, so kinda behind as well ;)
<knome> btw, one thing we didn't announce is when this contest ends... but seeing how "many" submissions we have so far, maybe that was for the best
<pleia2> I agree
<pleia2> now that I'm back I'll spread it on the social mediaz more/again
<pleia2> maybe tomorrow or tuesday
<knome> mhm
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-26
<Unit193> catfish (1.4.2-0ubuntu2) artful; urgency=medium
<Unit193> * Update test skipping to skip tests with 3.6 as well as 3.5.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4ui 4.13.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4ui-4-13-2-released-tp49480.html (by Eric Koegel)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfdesktop 4.12.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfdesktop-4-12-4-released-tp49481.html (by Eric Koegel)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4util 4.13.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4util-4-13-1-released-tp49485.html (by Eric Koegel)
<Unit193> Do we have anyone here that uses whiskermenu and would like to test a (hopefully) no change build?
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-27
<bluesabre> Unit193: I use whisker
<Unit193> bluesabre: in d/rules, remove the define for 'release'.  I notice the icons are a hair different, and the binary is slightly different.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Reasoning, default is 'None', not 'Release' and if 'Release' is used then the buildsystem will strip the binaries, thus disallowing the building of dbgsym packages.
<bluesabre> I see
<bluesabre> Will give that a shot
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/TwhQpNVKL5CSHO3chzr7 and http://paste.openstack.org/show/kexPTSEwwetY8JTsShJD to be (too) specific.
<bluesabre> Unit193: seems fine to me, works the same
<Unit193> Pushed. :3
<Unit193> Wow, so many errors for xfdesktop4: 1662254, 1613910, 1612311, 1521388, 1511561, 1415683 (comment says fixed.)
<Unit193> +1449098
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screenshooter 1.9.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screenshooter-1-9-1-released-tp49497.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
<ochosi> Unit193: strange, i installed xfconf 4.13.2 from the PPA but i still get "checking for libxfconf-0 >= 4.13.2... found, but 4.12.1"
<ochosi> would that be a multi-arch issue..?
<flocculant> ochosi: just checked ubuntu iso for dual install - middle slider there looks like http://i.imgur.com/FMlq5jN.png
<flocculant> as opposed to http://i.imgur.com/fIHOnVK.png
<Unit193> ochosi: dpkg -l libxfconf*
<ochosi> flocculant: wait, so ours looks better?
<flocculant> also - have 4.13.2 xfconf here and settings appears to be fine
<ochosi> ii  xfconf                      4.13.2-0ppa1+gdbus amd64              utilities for managing settings in Xfce
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - not got that spurious lid to the center :)
<ochosi> i would say we do a sarcastic slow clap at ubuntu's ubiquity and be happy we don't look as badly
<Unit193> That's not the dev package.
<flocculant> ochosi: :)
 * ochosi facepalms
<ochosi> Unit193: i was *so* sure i had that installed previously that i didn't even check...
<Unit193> :)
<slickymaster> !team | meeting in 10 minutes
<ubottu> meeting in 10 minutes: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<slickymaster> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 27 22:00:07 2017 UTC.  The chair is slickymaster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slickymaster> Welcome all to the Xubuntu community meeting.  The agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<slickymaster> Who's here for the meeting?
<pleia2> o/
<slickymaster> hello pleia2 
<pleia2> hey slickymaster 
<slickymaster> we'll wait a bit more to see if anyone else will show up
<slickymaster> due to lack of quorum
<slickymaster> I'm ending the meeting
<slickymaster> #action slickymaster to reschedule the meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster to reschedule the meeting
<slickymaster> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 27 22:14:04 2017 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2017/xubuntu-devel.2017-06-27-22.00.moin.txt
<slickymaster> anyway, minutes are up
<bluesabre> slickymaster: sorry I couldn't make it, juggling the car today
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-28
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2017-June/001216.html
<Unit193> bluesabre: How serious were you about using gir from garcon?
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, 215090 would be pretty easy to fix if we shipped it from x-d-s, though would only work for Xubuntu.
<Unit193> Heh, out of all the *.desktop files I have, the only one to use X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain (which libxfce4util doesn't understand) is gtk-theme-config. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: serious, but probably not seriously fast
<Unit193> bluesabre: I, err, was stupid last night, or whatever time whatever I was doing.  I have versions of ui and util that have gir, if you want to add the patch to garcon and play.
<bluesabre> Unit193: which bug system is that number from?
<Unit193> LP 215090
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 215090 in libxfce4ui (Ubuntu) "Xfce about dialog does not display xubuntu/ubuntu version" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215090
<bluesabre> hmmm
<bluesabre> gnome does it somehow, I believe
<bluesabre> no hurry for the garcon patch, menulibre dev is a bit slow atm
<Unit193> No really, all we'd have to do is ship /usr/share/xfce4/vendorinfo...  And I think I saw a catfish, menulibre, or mugshot bug scroll past Debain...
<Unit193> As far as gir stuff: "well, if we don't have any user I'd rather not, but I'm ok to add it once we get some"
<Unit193> bluesabre: That is, I have util and ui, not touching garcon though. :P
<bluesabre> aha, gotcha
<bluesabre> is it just a configure flag, or obvious in ui/util?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/gnUjuatusE8jyqoTkGfS
<Unit193> Configure flag would be good, but it autodetects and the build will fail anyway, just after rather than at the beginning.
<Unit193> (For ui: http://paste.openstack.org/show/vXNqGwNn7NtGnZvsqzQA)
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Or if you'd rather try and get ochosi to do it. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-29
<Unit193> Hmm.  xfdesktop4's new theming looks odd, but certainly better than it was.
<Unit193> It has a few quirks.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-30
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.6.12 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-6-12-released-tp49507.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-07-01
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r519 Add basic styling for xfdesktop 4.13 (Fixes #193)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<Unit193> I've been fixed? :3
#xubuntu-devel 2017-07-02
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [blackbird] r91 Revert "Increase the xfwm4 window border"... (by Eric Koegel)
<bluesabre> Unit193: congrats :D
<knome> no lightdm in ubuntu
<knome> just read on the planet
<knome> might be old news, have been bit out of loop
<pleia2> s/no/no default
<pleia2> but yeah, they have been tracking progress on the ubuntu-desktop list for a bit
<pleia2> (possibly elsewhere too, but that's where I saw it)
<knome> yep
<knome> and ofc i meant default, silly
<knome> (:
<pleia2> :D
<knome> i mean why would they remove it from the repos the minut they stop using it :P
<sorinello> anyone using xubuntu-core here ? I might have an interesting issue, which does not happen on xubuntu
<sorinello> looking at Unit193  :)
<sorinello> actually no, it was the annoying DNS issue that crippled in the final releases of ubuntu 17.04
<Unit193> 1. Considering it's just a starting point, nobody is really "using" Xubuntu Core IMO. :)  2. Might as well just start by asking, but seems you got it.  Yeah, there were a couple resolved issues from what I read, but I don't personally use it.
<Unit193> Oh fyi, in theory new thunar should be in Debian in a few days, so waiting to just sync it.
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, don't forget about gnome-font-viewer?
<bluesabre> Unit193: on it, probably going to push and announce tomorrow
<bluesabre> thanks though :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-25
<Unit193> May 31st Warning /!\ FeatureDefinitionFreeze  Heh, and we still don't know which sets we'regoingwith. :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: I've been checking out experimental, and things seem to be working well. Not had any issues.
<Unit193> OK, we kind of need to go/nogo on xfconf/thunar, and everything else that brings in. :3
<Unit193> It's kind of holding things up, since I know everything will require a rebuild so holding off there too.
<Spass> I have a very minor proposition to slightly reduce the xfce4-panel items clutter. Changing custom clock format from "%d %b, %H:%M" to " %d %b, %H:%M " (added spaces) will allow to remove adjacent Separator item and (in my opinion) will make it look better, minutes wouldn't be glued to the screen edge like they do now
<Spass_Cosmic> I've just installed cosmic on my second drive, with experimental and daily PPAs, I'll definitely do some testing later
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'd say got for it
<Unit193> Alrighty!
<Unit193> Heh, stuck in new. :D
<Unit193> ochosi: Oh right!  I need a new ristretto for this!
<bluesabre> ochosiiiiii
<knome> (:
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-26
<Unit193> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ the 19th?
<flocculant> Unit193: I did catch a comment about failing iso builds - not had time to look any further - not just us apparently
<Unit193> Nice..
<flocculant> ubuntu, mate, budgie and us
<Unit193> Pending: thunar, ristretto, xfdashboard, xfdesktop4, xfce4-settings, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin.
<Unit193> flocculant: Oh, buttload of stuff in -proposed.
<Unit193> I don't think xfdashboard will backport, but nabbed that too.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh btw, I left xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin (merge?) for you.
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/extras/+build/15053898/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-bionic-amd64.xfdashboard_0.7.4-0ubuntu1~18.04_BUILDING.txt.gz
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin/0.4.1-1ubuntu1
<bluesabre> Unit193: so... something missing for the xfdashboard build?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Backports, only happens in Bionic and older.
<bluesabre> So, nearly everything :)
<Unit193> I...Did just a couple uploads yesterday. >_>
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Much appreciated
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+uploaded-packages unfortunately, I still have the thunar and -panel transitions.
<bluesabre> Way to go
<flocculant> thanks Unit193 
 * flocculant grabs the stuffs
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-27
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hrm.  You want ristretto?  I'll take xfdesktop4 and the rest of the thunar transition, unless you want some (though I get dropbox, doing that in Debian.)
<Unit193> That's all that's left btw, everything else is done.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<Unit193> â is because the workaround is still needed for ubiquity, else craaashing.
<bluesabre> Unit193: did we get a release, or do I need to package a patched version?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Couldn't convince for a release, have to add dbus to configure.
<Unit193> (Remember that one doesn't have to manually xdt-autogen now.)
<bluesabre> alrighty, will take a look
<Unit193> If you really don't have time or whatnot, I'll get to it eventually.  I just hate having to patch it to pull that in, when gdbus is sitting in git. :/
<bluesabre> not sure what you mean about adding dbus, but I can conceivably work on getting ristretto released
<bluesabre> seems like the only changes since last release are a few fixes and gdbus
<Unit193> Wimpress: BTW, you've been pinged on https://github.com/newsboat/newsboat/pull/192 a few times. :P
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-28
<bluesabre> small victories, https://git.launchpad.net/catfish-search/commit/?id=1c04cfa1ee61f3ff998802b138e02f44ca086f9e :)
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar-archive-plugin/0.4.0-0ubuntu1 - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar-vcs-plugin/0.1.90-0ubuntu1 - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar-media-tags-plugin/0.3.0-0ubuntu1
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/4.13.2-0ubuntu1/+build/15063032/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-cosmic-ppc64el.xfdesktop4_4.13.2-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz :'(
<Unit193> ...I was expecting a need for autoreconf, but uhh...
<Unit193> So functionally, we're just waiting on ristretto.
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> and if I can get a release for that by begging or doing it myself, we should be set?
<Unit193> Technically waiting on -dropbox-plugin, but yes I think so.
<bluesabre> I'll give f2404 a day or two to respond before poking somebody to get me some release manager powers for it
<Unit193> Could take it for a spin and see how it goes.
<Unit193> Make sure there's nothing else. :P
<Unit193> Ooooh, make it do webms, and make  `ristretto SOME_URL_HERE` work!
<bluesabre> I just fixed thumbnail issues in catfish, can probably fix em in ristretto too
<bluesabre> Unit193: so, remote files?
<bluesabre> probably a lot of work if it can't already do them
<Unit193> I think it can't, at least.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: ristretto 0.8.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-ristretto-0-8-3-released-tp51326.html (by Igor Zakharov)
<ochosi> hey guys
<ochosi> sorry for all the afk time
<ochosi> football world championship, end of the school semester (family) and loads of work...
<ochosi> excuses excuses :)
<ochosi> anyway, i think i'll be available a bit more in the coming weeks
<ochosi> (at least until the holidays start)
<ochosi> bluesabre: do you need help with the lp to xfce migrataion?
<ochosi> migration
<ochosi> of catfish and xfpanel-switch (man, i really hate that name, why can't it be xfce4-panel-profiles or something...)
<knome> hahaha
<knome> (:
<bluesabre> ochosi: that would be delightful
<bluesabre> they've been moved to git, so moving to xfce should be not so hard
<ochosi> dunno which parts need doing
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> that should be fairly easy then
<ochosi> git clone, git add remote, git push? :)
<bluesabre> add projects, add bugzilla, migrate bugs
<ochosi> what's the name of the repo? catfish-search again? or just catfish?
<bluesabre> ping kalgasnik to tell him catfish is moving again :)
<ochosi> kalgasnik? or kalikiana?
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://code.launchpad.net/catfish-search
<bluesabre> oh right
<ochosi> yeah, i know it's currently there
<bluesabre> kalikiana
<ochosi> but it's catfish-search currently
<bluesabre> since lp~catfish was already taken at the time
<bluesabre> so it'd just be catfish on xfce
<ochosi> but nothing is called catfish search there, no binary at least
<ochosi> ok
<bluesabre> gotta run again now
<bluesabre> bbabl
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, starting pushing to a new git repo here: https://git.xfce.org/apps/catfish (wait for cgit to refresh)
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> ok, it actually failed
<ochosi> i need to rewrite the git history because a commit has an invalid email address
<ochosi> wonder why launchpad didn't complain
<Unit193> Why would it?
<ochosi> why not?
<ochosi> it's a fairly sane configuration to reject commits without valid author/email
<ochosi> problem is all "launchpad automatic translations update" commits have no email
<Unit193> https://help.github.com/articles/changing-author-info/ very simple to fix.
<ochosi> yeah, i know
<ochosi> it's not really that hard, it was just surprising LP didn't care
<ochosi> phew, it skipped sending commit emails...
<ochosi> would have been >700
<bluesabre> Shew
<ochosi> bluesabre: so i pushed everything
<bluesabre> Third req is transifex, dunno if you have admin there
<ochosi> but unfortunately cgit seems to sort the tags incorrectly
<ochosi> not sure why
<bluesabre> Huh
<ochosi> yeah i do, but let's do bugzilla first
<bluesabre> Cool though, I'll update all the lp connections and send some mails tonight
<ochosi> any idea on how to migrate the bugs? by had?
<bluesabre> I might just leave them tied to Ubuntu catfish so we don't have to migrate
<ochosi> ok, bugzilla is set up too
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> i can delete that again too, if you want
<ochosi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?component=General&list_id=42053&product=Catfish&resolution=---
<bluesabre> ?
<ochosi> generally speaking it's there though
<ochosi> so you can report bugs against it now on bugs.xfce.org
<bluesabre> Awesome, thanks ochosi
<ochosi> or do you want to keep the LP bugtracker?
<bluesabre> I'll tidy all the lp stuff up
<ochosi> hm, i added the catfish.pot to transifex
<ochosi> but i'm not sure what has to be done to sync existing translations
<ochosi> anyway, it should be mostly set up
<bluesabre> ochosi: very nice
<ochosi> alrighty, lemme know if you need anything else there
<ochosi> as soon as we've figured out everything for catfish, let's rinse+repeat for xfpanel-switch
<bluesabre> ochosi: will do. I'll do the lp stuff when I get home
<ochosi> alrighty, sounds good!
<ochosi> maybe i can figure out the remaining transifex issues with skunnyk
<bluesabre> And thanks a bunch for knocking this out so quickly
<ochosi> bluesabre: no problem, had to deal with my bad conscience of not contributing much in the last few weeks ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> ok, added a few versions to bugzilla too
<ochosi> you should be able to edit them yourself as well, but not sure many more previous versions are needed
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm starting to consider deleting all tags and manually pushing them one by one to fix the sorting...
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-29
<bluesabre> ochosi: that'd be ok
<bluesabre> ochosi: messaged the lp devs with some questions, should be able to finish the lp cleanup tomorr
<bluesabre> ow
<bluesabre> (man, I'm tired)
<bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty, so if I switch the bug tracker on lp to point to xfce, the bug listing will disappear, bug the reports will remain. I'm copying the bug reports over the bz, then will switch the tracker over, and then link to the xfce bug
<bluesabre> a bit of manual work, but that's fine
<bluesabre> xfpanel-switch only has 2, so less painful
<bluesabre> ochosi: thought of another item, the release manager
<bluesabre> ochosi: bugs are migrated, lp bugs linked, and catfish reconfigured on lp... all the lp work is done :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: for ristretto, do I need to bump the build dep for xfconf for the transition, or is uploading a new package sufficient?
<bluesabre> currently, libxfconf-0-dev (>= 4.10.0)
<ochosi> bluesabre: \o/
<Unit193> bluesabre: You don't need to bump it.  I can take it if you want, but looks like you've already got it.
<bluesabre> Unit193: cool, will upload in a sec
<knome> wait
<knome> one second is gone already
<knome> :P
<Unit193> He already uploaded.  Also dang, it's not on Salsa yet.
<knome> heh
<knome> well done then :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> lied
<bluesabre> almost sent to bionic
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ristretto/0.8.3-0ubuntu1
<Unit193> Good, passed on the newer arches.
 * bluesabre did nothing intentionally
#xubuntu-devel 2018-07-01
<Unit193> Complete.
<bluesabre> Unit193: awesome!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Forced the last one through as I was starting to get re-spammed. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I'd been watching excuses to see what was hanging, cool to see you got it :)
<Unit193> grep-dctrl -n -sPackage -FDepends libxfconf-0-2 us.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_devel*amd64_Packages  compared with the libxfconf-0-3 list, and same with libthunar is easier.
<bluesabre> knome, embedded IRC is broken in Chrome (and probably elsewhere) since we're embedding the http: version, https://xubuntu.org/irc/
<Spass> blank space on my Firefox 60 too
<Unit193> Hmm.  Newer xfconf, and seems a -settings snuck up on me.  There's also a newer exo too..
<Unit193> Oh I guess the non-English folks might be more happy if we updated libxfce4util.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-24
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/n/numlockx/news/20190622T093347Z.html
<bluesabre> yay!
<Unit193> https://freenode.net/news/moving-to-kiwiirc might be something to note for the website peeps.
<TJ-> Is there some standard application that would bind to Super+Space (Win-key + Space). I'm asking since that is set as the ibus hot-key combo to switch input methods and it isn't working but *something* is responding and swalling the next key I press. E.g. if I press Super+Space and then type "man" only the "an" appears, as if the "m" was swallowed
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-25
<bluesabre> TJ-: lots of people have requested including https://github.com/hanschen/ksuperkey for better keyboard integration, that might do the trick
<TJ-> bluesabre: thanks; it turned out the keyboard model selected was turning the "win" key into "multi_key"
<bluesabre> TJ-: If I enter Super+Space and then type a letter, it appears... so there might be a running app that has claimed it
<bluesabre> aha
<TJ-> bluesabre: the problem being, in "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" there is no bloody way to know what a keyboard model name either looks like, or the keycodes it generates! This is on an Asus T300CHI so originally I selected, quite obvisouly, "Asus Laptop" - der, WRONG! switched it to Generic PC101 and it now generate L_Super 
<bluesabre> oh wow
<bluesabre> I also have an Asus laptop, glad I didn't look around in there :)
<TJ-> so now I can Super_Space and get unicode emojis by typing their common-names :)
<TJ-> Using https://github.com/salty-horse/ibus-uniemoji
<bluesabre> neat
<TJ-> it's very useful... Super+Space "soccer" => â½ 
<bluesabre> That's pretty awesome actually
<TJ-> indeed, saves faffing about trying to look-up unicodes in hex
<bluesabre> maybe we can get some more folks in the team *cough* knome *cough* to go for color emojis
<TJ-> ð¨â¤ð» <== was "man" "heart" "computer"
<TJ-> bluesabre: ha! when you said "color" I thought I was generating colour and just couldn't see it due to the terminal :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: He's the one you've got a chance to win over at least.
<bluesabre> Unit193: :D
<bluesabre> TJ-: `sudo apt install fonts-noto-color-emoji` and you should have color emojis in your terminal too, if you want them
<TJ-> bluesabre: I have powerline fonts not sure if they extend that one; I'll check
<TJ-> doesn't look like it
<TJ-> ð thanks bluesabre - it works though not sure I need it :)
<bluesabre> :)
<TJ-> bluesabre: now if they'd only fix this DPMS off issue...!!!
<TJ-> I may be able to see them :D
<jphilips> hi all, how to report problems with the xubuntu website
<bluesabre> jphilipz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+filebug
<jphilipz> bluesabre: thanks
<jphilipz> are all xfce components in 18.04 gtk2?
<jphilipz> want to test xfce gtk2 vs gtk3 and wonder which xubuntu release would have it
<brainwash> jphilipz: what is there to test?
<jphilipz> brainwash: functionality/behaviour of the old vs new
<guiverc> jphilipz, Xfce 4.12 (early 2015) started the move from gtk2 to gtk3 so for an all gtk2 xfce it'd have to be before 2015 (thus EOL).
<jphilipz> guiverc: i checked and 4.12 first got release with xubuntu 15.04, so from what you are saying the 4.12 with xubuntu 18.04 isnt all gtk2
<guiverc> Nope; 17.10 introduced some new gtk+3 features that prior releases had, 18.04 refined & added more  (note: I'm not a dev, only a user) .  16.04 should have more but 18.04 is too late in my opinion if you wanted mostly gtk2
<guiverc> jphilipz, fyi: Xubuntu 16.04 is EOL (3 years as a flavor); sorry I forgot..
<jphilipz> guiverc: even if EOL its just for testing purposes :D
<jphilipz> seems 16.10 also had some gtk3 bits - https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-10-release
<M_aD> i'd take it to the support channel instead of chatting about it in the dev channel.
<guiverc> sorry M_aD, I wrongly thought this was #xubuntu 
<M_aD> :)
<jphilipz> an older bug i reported was set from incomplete to expired and i've just added additional info to it, so how to get its status changed from expired?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-26
<pragomer> hi. I read about xubuntu 19.10 would ship with 4.14. thats super awesome. can you tell at what point of this year there could be a "daily iso" that contains already 4.14 (so to have a look at it) ?
<brainwash> pragomer: the current one has 4.14 (pre1)
<brainwash> pragomer: in a week or so 4.14 (pre2)
<pragomer> brainwash: so I could check that with xfce4-panel --version for example, right?
<Unit193> xfce4-panel 4.13.5 (Xfce 4.12)  is what it says, so not precisely.
<ochosi> Unit193: we're working on that, that string will be correct with 4.14pre2
<knome> bluesabre, naaah
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yeah I'm still officially -1 on it, fwiw. :3
<Unit193> knome: FWIW, xubuntu.org/irc doesn't load the same now.
<knome> aha.
<Unit193> https://webchat.freenode.net/#xubuntu?nick=xubuntu?w  something like this.
<knome> right.
<Unit193> (Not sure if that should be updated, or fixed on freenode's redirector.)
<knome> let's see if i can persuade it to the correct syntax
<knome> :P
<knome> ok, it's good now
<Unit193> Which means it's broken in the installer and docs too.
<knome> yeah..
<Unit193> Perhaps the redirector should be fixed to account for that, I'm checking.
<knome> mkay.
<knome> let me know and i can push stuff to repositories if not
<Unit193> I'd think better to not need the redirector going forward, but that's just me perhaps.
<knome> ok, i'll poke the repositories anyway then
<knome> Unit193, halp!
<knome> how do i create a new "cosmic" branch for docs that has the stuff that's in master?
<Unit193> Do you mean to `git branch cosmic` or to branch off a tag?  If the latter, git checkout $TAG
<knome> we don't have a cosmic tag..
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<Unit193> Could go off a comit.
<knome> so after that, git commit?
<knome> (after "git branch cosmic"?)
<knome> i somehow got the grasp of the branches last time, but i've lost it :P
<Unit193> !info xubuntu-docs
<ubottu> xubuntu-docs (source: xubuntu-docs): Xubuntu documentation. In component universe, is optional. Version 18.04.1 (disco), package size 4340 kB, installed size 11786 kB
<Unit193> Yeah, hasn't been an upload since, so no tags.
<knome> so do we care about creating a cosmic branch?
<Unit193> I don't see why.
<knome> ok
<knome> so i just update master?
<Unit193> Sure.
<knome> oookay
<Unit193> git diff | diffstat â  9 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 14 deletions(-)
<Unit193> Oh that's nice.
<knome> wut
<Unit193> I seem to have local changes to xubuntu-docs.
<knome> nice
<knome> also, 18.10 says UNRELEASD in changelog
<knome> how do i create a new version with that craaap? :P
<knome> change UNRELEASED to cosmic?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/5hNXrAIZZSUOKwaJccdS
<Unit193> Why cosmic?
<knome> because 18.10?
<Unit193> We'd be uploading this to eoan.
<knome> no, but there is changelog stuff that talks about cosmic stuff?
<knome> ...or haven't we release those?
<Unit193> Never uploaded, and the only change he did for that was adding d/changelog...
<Unit193> So doesn't count.
<knome> sigh...
<knome> ok, sure
<Unit193> https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=ff3a49d1e336cff8c19cd08ea4b9fce88ef9fac9 isn't really a bump...
<knome> hahah
<knome> right
<knome> docs should be up.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Update the webchat link to accommodate new syntax @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=df78eb09adb77bb498d076a4f2416ecd0824407e (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<knome> Unit193, docs and slideshow are pushed
<knome> with https even, now :P
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Webchat link: http->https @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=709b8ee41cba07ac821d8d4ca53743a08cf6bb35 (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<Unit193> \o/
<jphilipz> Unit193, knome: i filed a bug yesterday to update the irc link - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1834270
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1834270 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "update link to xubuntu irc" [Undecided,New]
<jphilipz> knome, Unit193: installer also has wrong link to docs - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1834269
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1834269 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "'Official documentation online' link not linking to latest docs" [Undecided,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-27
<jphilipz> mockup of improvements to xfce4 panel properties dialog - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-B-zhrWkAA9DHl.png:large
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-dev-tools 4.13.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-dev-tools-4-13-0-released-tp54352.html (by Romain Bouvier)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfconf 4.13.8 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfconf-4-13-8-released-tp54355.html (by Romain Bouvier)
<jphilipz> trying to make fixes to the .glade files, but getting the error 'The following required catalogs are unavailable: libxfce4ui-2' when opening the file. how can i resolve this
<Unit193> Install libxfce4ut-glade
<Unit193> ...Only spell it better than I did. >_>
<jphilipz> Unit193: thanks
<Unit193> jphilipz: If you're installing libxfce4ui from source, you should have libgladeui-dev installed when running configure.
<jphilipz> Unit193: installing from repo
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-28
<Unit193> I suppose I should mention it here too, for the time being at least, there will be no Xubuntu Core builds.  It currently drops to busybox and not sure why.
<bluesabre> :(
<albinard> Eoan ISO of 06/28 installs and runs really well, but first Live screen flickers before settling down.
<albinard> After some more use, I'm finding the 06/28 ISO installed runs like a really solid ditro.  No problems yet.
<albinard> Even runs like a distro.  Oops.
<jphilipz> bluesabre: hi
<jphilipz> saw the latest meeting minutes and wouldnt mind assisting with your task of additional keyboard shortcuts, if you havent already completed it
<jphilipz> tried to see the old meeting minutes archive, but got an internal server error - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive
<pleia2> yeah, the ubuntu wiki is the bane of our existence :\
<jphilipz> working now, but not showing any of the 2019 meetings
<pleia2> that page is generated by searching, so the back end probably timed out before it could find the most recent ones
<Unit193> We've only had one 2019 meeting.
<pleia2> oh, there we go
<pleia2> it's sweet that you all took off for baby adam's birth with me <3
<jphilipz> are meeting less important these days and everything is in the mailing list?
<pleia2> no, I think everyone just got busy and they slipped for a few months :\
<pleia2> we're down a few team members this year
<Unit193> Heh, everything is on IRC.  We had to have some meeting at the end of last cycle I would have thought, but perhaps not.  It tends to be pinging specific people unless it's a question as to direction, that's more meeting stuff.
<Unit193> All that too.
<jphilipz> would like to be a team member. i've contributed to libreoffice for 4+ years
<Unit193> Dang, I owe Emery an email too..
<jphilipz> have already started filing bugs in launchpad and bugzilla
<Unit193> so with the keyboard shortcuts, it's one line edits in an xml file so pretty basic.
<jphilipz> is it a git repo?
<Unit193> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/import/changes/711?start_revid=711 bzr it seems.
<jphilipz> is the team looking only for new shortcuts to add or also to modify existing ones
<pleia2> just adding, have you seen the mailing list thread?
<jphilipz> no havent seen the mailing list
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2019-June/thread.html
<pleia2> "New Keyboard Shortcuts for Xubuntu"
<pleia2> I'd suggest signing up for the list, and welcome :)
<jphilipz> okay will do
<jphilipz> thanks
<jphilipz> joined but not sure how to reply to an existing email thread
<pleia2> there's no easy way, you can just create a new one with the same title, people will see it
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.8.7 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-8-7-released-tp54376.html (by Alexander Schwinn-2)
<bluesabre> jphilipz, Unit193: git repo... had to have a bzr import repo to cover some lp features missing with git (probably translations)
<jphilipz> bluesabre: so no git repo :(
<bluesabre> jphilipz: yes git repo? `git clone -b master https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings`
<jphilipz> bluesabre: currently testing alot of distros in order to make recommendations
<jphilipz> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CPvYS7Vb00nImb5cru6pwcMHFov0vmdzJV9dTBUOuYg/edit#gid=0
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Miiight want to set the git repo to be default, then. :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think it is though... https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings goes to the git repo
<Unit193> Nice.
<Unit193> I likely pulled up code.l.n/~xubuntu-dev. :/
<bluesabre> jphilipz: I was working on something similar, if this helps out https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gtdJ8ZzPt2Rfnih6aC-fIl8eYjcO1lcDmeXvdB6WQs8/edit?usp=sharing
<jphilipz> bluesabre: nice :D
<bluesabre> Basically determined that nobody has the same keyboard shortcuts, which is lame for users
<jphilipz> i was just limiting mine to the basics
<jphilipz> there are alot of similarities
<jphilipz> there is a wiki page with alot of this listed in it
<jphilipz> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_keyboard_shortcuts
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-29
<jphilipz> not sure where to ask this, but i checked the marketing wiki and didnt see anything about social media marketing
<jphilipz> if possible, i'd like to lend a hand at running the twitter account and help engage more with the community and increase the followers
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-30
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar-volman 0.9.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-volman-0-9-3-released-tp54391.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.2.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-2-5-released-tp54393.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-appfinder 4.13.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-appfinder-4-13-4-released-tp54396.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfdesktop 4.13.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfdesktop-4-13-5-released-tp54401.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfwm4 4.13.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-13-3-released-tp54407.html (by Olivier Fourdan)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screensaver 0.1.6 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screensaver-0-1-6-released-tp54408.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> Going to upload the new xfce4-screensaver, then replace light-locker with it
<bluesabre> So, if xubuntu-team currently has 8 members, does a vote require +4 or +5 to move along?
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre: Is there any configuration in the defaults that has to be done to enable that, or will it happen automagically?
<Eickmeyer> Asking for a friend.
<bluesabre> Eickmeyer: should just require an update to the seed. You'll likely also want https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=650fd90df8d1e3e7b15fd789907fa47e9e2f68e5
<bluesabre> ooooooooooh
<bluesabre> Unit193: can you upload the screensaver? Since it's not in the seed, I can't upload it >.<
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre: ack, I'lll take a look and change our settings likewise. 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-seed:: Replace light-locker with xfce4-screensaver, sort packages (core) @ http://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/xubuntu/commit/?id=217489d90a1324b6ee94c90bee82e0e2e5cb3f84 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Release xubuntu-default-settings 19.10.1 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=330b4f01e6da3ca01f5c180e2419d8ebc955c016 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, with xfce4-screensaver's last update, I no longer know how to have the screensaver daemon running, but only lock on request. :/
<bluesabre> Unit193: Lock Screen tab, turn the first option on "Enable Lock Screen", and turn "Lock Screen with Screensaver" and "Lock Screen  with System Sleep" off
<bluesabre> If it locks with those 2 settings, it's a bug :D
<bluesabre> oh, and Xfce Power Manager also has some locking settings that might be up to no go
<bluesabre> od
<Unit193> That's what I have, even went so far as turning 'Activate screensaver when computer is idle' off.
<bluesabre> xfpm's "Lock screen when system is going to sleep" is synchronized with xs
<bluesabre> hm
<Unit193> I could go back to .4, but that doesn't help anyone. :3
<bluesabre> could launch "xfce4-screensaver --debug" to collect useful output
<Unit193> OK
<Unit193> I'm presuming I don't need to restart the daemon to activate changes?
<bluesabre> Correct
<Unit193> Considering it's when the screen goes to sleep (IIRC, blank doesn't trigger it.  Might be wrong.)
<bluesabre> I'll also check it out
<Unit193> Do you have a dsc for me to sponsor, or should I just grab it?
<Unit193> Also: Do we intend to still support light-locker or no?
<Unit193> PPS: light-locker and xfce4-screensaver will both end up installed for upgraders.
<bluesabre> hmmm
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/sponsoring/+sourcefiles/xfce4-screensaver/0.1.6-0ubuntu1/xfce4-screensaver_0.1.6-0ubuntu1.dsc
<bluesabre> Unit193: what would you suggest on that? Should I make xss aware of light-locker and do something about it, or should we do some package not co-installable thing?
<bluesabre> actually, might not be a major problem based on how xflock4 works
<bluesabre> if multiple screensavers are installed, it tries until it finds one of: user preference, xss, others
<brainwash> and in the other cases when xflock4 is not used?
<Unit193> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-release-upgrader/trunk/view/head:/data/DistUpgrade.cfg#L64 ?
<bluesabre> Unit193: don't think I've ever seen that file, but that seems like a possibility
<Unit193> Thought we did something like that for indicator-power?
<bluesabre> https://xubuntu.org/news/14-10-release/
<bluesabre> "Note: Upgraders from Trusty will not see the new xfce4-power-manager panel plugin by default, but instead stick to indicator-power. This can easily be resolved by uninstalling indicator-power and adding the âPower Manager Pluginâ to the panel."
<bluesabre> DIY :D
<Unit193> Perhaps we should ask to ensure this is the right place, but yea.
<bluesabre> Asked in -release
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre: I just added xfce4-screensaver to our seed, but I can't add the fix to the live session (separate repo, in fact, still in bzr) as I don't have access to the complete packageset yet. The only person who does just went on a 4-week vacation and will be incommunicado.
<bluesabre> Eickmeyer: that just means your live session will be lockable (either with timeout or by asking the computer to lock)
<flocculant> bluesabre: just fyi - I'd played about with -screensaver a while back and gave up - only way I could stop it doing anything - which is what I wanted was to have power plugin permanently on presentation mode
<bluesabre> flocculant: good to know. I'll do some deep testing this week to make sure it works as expected
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-session 4.13.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-session-4-13-3-released-tp54418.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4util 4.13.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4util-4-13-4-released-tp54420.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.13.7 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-13-7-released-tp54422.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke - if you're changing seed - will installing it uninstall light-locker?
<flocculant> I assume I'll see something in updates
<bluesabre> flocculant: currently no, working on a solution for that
<flocculant> ok - well I might chuck light-locker and install -screensaver tomorrow and see what it's like now
<flocculant> with a PC - I don't really want then to do anything 
<flocculant> if I want the screen off - I turn it off lol
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> I'll check it out and let you know what I find here anyway 
<bluesabre> I have a monitor with a broken capacitative button... turning it off means unplugging it :)
 * flocculant toddles off again
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: reboot at wall ... those were the days ha ha 
<bluesabre> :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4ui 4.13.6 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4ui-4-13-6-released-tp54424.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<knome> so apparently lubuntu is taking donations now
<Unit193> Oh dear...
<ochosi> directly?
<ochosi> i thought that wasn't allowed or something
<knome> https://lubuntu.me/donate-to-lubuntu/
<knome> directly, yes
<Unit193> Uploading xfce4-screensaver_0.1.6-0ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
<Unit193> bluesabre: "Can we get more votes from the team?"  I had a -1, but it was over IRC.
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks, just need even more :D
<Unit193> :3
<bluesabre> Since more folks are around now... with a team of 8, what's a passed team vote? 4 or 5 +1's?
<bluesabre> Unit193: mind if I upload exo 0.12.6 (and break sync)?
<Unit193> bluesabre: I presume the break is just 'new upstream'?  If so, that's what I've been doing, sure.
<bluesabre> yeah
<Unit193> http://www.rulesonline.com/rror-11.htm#64 "The quorum of any other deliberative assembly with an enrolled membership is a majority of all the members." which is 5.
<bluesabre> awesome, thanks
<Unit193> http://www.rulesonline.com/rror-08.htm for voting.
<ochosi> regarding the whole kb-shortcuts discussion, i'd go for pushing as much as meaningful upstream to xfce
<bluesabre> I'm open to that... but who do I run that by in upstream?
<bluesabre> Everybody contributing to -settings in x timeframe?
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> if it's just adding stuff i think that's easily acceptable
<ochosi> it's more about changing existing stuff that may provoke reactions
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.13.6 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-13-6-released-tp54427.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: garcon 0.6.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-garcon-0-6-3-released-tp54429.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<jphilipz> just curious when Ctrl+Alt+D was introduced and then replaced by Super+D for show desktop, as i dont have it in 18.04 or in the 19.10 daily i installed on the 23rd
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-power-manager 1.6.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-power-manager-1-6-3-released-tp54432.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<bluesabre> Unit193, flocculant: confirmed the behavior you described, will dig in and resolve
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: Xfce 4.14pre2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-Xfce-4-14pre2-released-tp54434.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-22
<jphilips> bluesabre: is this something we should worry about - https://twitter.com/synaptictude/status/1274730746612076545
<jphilips> problem upgrading to 20.04 in qemu - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+bug/1884476
<ubot93> Launchpad bug 1884476 in qemu (Ubuntu) "/dev/kvm wrong group (plugdev) after upgrade to 20.04" [Undecided, New]
<bluesabre> jphilips: RE: mate-calc, probably not. GTK is notorious for spamming the terminal with logs only the devs would care about (theme parsing error, cannot bind, etc) and there's no easy way to silence them.
<bluesabre> jphilips: RE: qemu, good to know, but not sure how consistent that is... I didn't run into that myself when I had upgraded from 19.10 to 20.04
<bluesabre> Unit193: cool, I figured out how to get the indicators working :D
<bluesabre> I even got an ayatana indicator to load
<bluesabre> https://github.com/Xubuntu/lightdm-gtk-greeter/commit/33fdde12ed0d6a4e900d86422cf50fa1d33fa724 :)
<bluesabre> Though, the only one I was able to load was session, it was enough to say that it works
<Unit193> Mmmm, hardcoded paths. :D
<bluesabre> Yeahhh
<bluesabre> Should improve that
<bluesabre> Not that I want to support installations where systemd or /etc/xdg/autostart are installed in non-standard paths :D
<Unit193> But, /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/autostart/! :P
<bluesabre> :o
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Drop d-i @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=944e4c3d3db04012cb5795b69b57dd0da18a83fa (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<bluesabre> https://github.com/Xubuntu/lightdm-gtk-greeter/releases/tag/lightdm-gtk-greeter-2.0.8 :)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-23
<Unit193> :o
<DarkTrick> What would you think of inverting sorting arrow of tables by default in xubuntu? ( `gtk-alternative-sort-arrows = true` in `/etc/gtk-3.0/settings.ini` )
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.15.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-15-3-released-tp59237.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-24
<jphilips> i'm trying to install all the community wallpapers and tried this but it didn't work : sudo apt install xubuntu-community-wallpapers-*
<jphilips> DarkTrick: where would i see the side effect of that change?
<DarkTrick> jphilips, I'm not sure what you mean by "side effect". But the main effect is, that â² would sort a-z (new) instead of z-a (old)
<jphilips> DarkTrick: oh okay. i see windows is using that icon for that order as well.
<DarkTrick> jphilips, I'm aware, that there is a lot about this topic ( see references-section in first post: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/2852 ). 
<ubot93> Issue 2852 in GNOME/gtk "FR: GtkTreeViewColumn: don't use pan-up-symbolic / pan-down-symbolic for sorted columns" [Opened]
<jphilips> dolphin uses the current icon with the old sort
<DarkTrick> My argument is if windows,mac,the internet  are using â² for a-z, we should be externally consistent and follow that.
<DarkTrick> (couldn't check mac, so far)
<jphilips> well yes ideally we should do the same. do you know if there is a bug report for this as well on the kde side?
<DarkTrick> jphilips, sorry I have no idea
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-dev-tools 4.15.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-dev-tools-4-15-0-released-tp59238.html (by Romain Bouvier)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, ditto here regarding my conversation with ochosi in #xfce-dev. :P
<ochosi> did i say something wrong again? :)
<Unit193> Nope, ubot93 stuff.
<ochosi> ah that one
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-25
<Unit193> ...Wanna adopt elementary-xfce from me and move it to the themes team? :3
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in pl @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/4aa76b810587ae20bfdb1c6251bd572c29a79d25 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in pl @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/702a800163aa629efff0ae3be86547217482bd04 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in pl @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/70ebdc0ba5427242c8cc12783c28a4e28f64d456 (by transifex-integration)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-26
<Unit193> Wait, am I supposed to backport the icon theme to the PPA too?
<jphilips> Unit193: any possibility to upgrade xubuntu-dev/experimental ppa, as i can't build thunar master now that it requires a newer version of libxfce4ui version 4.15
<Unit193> jphilips: I'm pretty sure it's in sync with Debian experimental.
<jphilips> debian experimental is 4.15.1 and ppa is 4.15.0
<pleia2> btw, it would make my life better if we could avoid the "make sure its as user-friendly that our moms could easily understand it" comments ;)
<pleia2> your mothers may not be very computer literate, but it's not true for all of them :)
<Unit193> I'm not sure I've ever said that?  My mom does use Xubuntu (or something like it..) and Windows 10, she's certainly far better than I am with LibreOffice. :3
<pleia2> it's in a recent bug report
<pleia2> it's all knome's fault, really ;)
<ochosi> as always :)
<pleia2> looks like we're not having a whole luck getting IS to respond to our RT tickets :\
<pleia2> except now that I'm in RT I'm responding to random tickets, halp (it was about IRC log bots)
<Unit193> Oh, is it missing from somewhere?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: installer: drop obsolete bootloaders @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=0916ff9b559c1c7ba0510738fb2f681488889be9 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: installer: drop obsolete/udeb packages. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=6580337779298e2c02399770f5b09443f402eb35 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: installer: add back information-only debian-installer. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=510128ae1f7e66be563d98486ef09c981da40f2a (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<Unit193> jphilips: Meh, so ended up syncing libxfce4ui to that PPA.
<jphilips> thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-27
<misko_> Had fun yesterday with GtkPopover as a xfce panel plugin... :)
<misko_>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXZzwDDQlZ8
<misko_> That is going to be hard to position correctly :)
<jphilips> misko_: nice. the positioning is a bit off though
<jphilips> i had filed a number of tooltip bugs i found in the panel. is this something you have knowledge about?
<jphilips> https://gitlab.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/-/issues?scope=all&utf8=%E2%9C%93&state=opened&author_username=philipzae&search=tooltip
<misko_> jphilips well, it's a progress, last week I thought it is impossible to have a standalone popover without a transparent window
<misko_> @jphilips There is not much it can be done with tooltips
<misko_> it's a problem with gtk
<brainwash> gtk/gnome devs have reworked tooltips in gtk4 I think
<brainwash> maybe popovers too
<misko_> Didn't see gtk4 yet
<misko_> but I saw that someone wants to add gtk3 and gtk4 stuff to gtk2
<misko_> https://github.com/thesquash/stlwrt
<brainwash> the author claims that it's not "vaporware", but it certainly looks like "vaporware"
<jphilips> bluesabre: when you get a chance, i have some MR on github for you to look over :D
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-28
<jphilips> bluesabre: people having issues caused by screensaver waiting 30 seconds before going to sleep - https://askubuntu.com/questions/1233858/xubuntu-20-04-suspend-waits-30-seconds
<jphilips> after fiddling with the default settings of the lock screen tab of screensaver, its now happening to me. lol
<jphilips> bug filed - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-screensaver/+bug/1885444
<ubot93> Launchpad bug 1885444 in xfce4-screensaver (Ubuntu) "Suspend/sleep waits 30 seconds" [Undecided, New]
<jphilips> i noticed that when the login screen appears after suspend the panel doesn't appear at the top for atleast a minute, and wondered what do i file this against
<jphilips> lightdm?
<jphilips> bluesabre: congrats on the new bot :D
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Been working on getting that planet put together for the last couple days :)
<jphilips> was wondering why xfce didn't have one up for it
<jphilips> i'm follower number 2 :D
<jphilips> you beat me to follower number 1
<bluesabre> Unit193: I have a new planet site that will post uploads to xubuntu-related debian packages, https://planet.bluesabre.org/ :)
<bluesabre> ala https://imgur.com/o9p4r9i.png
<bluesabre> and associated twitter-rss bot https://twitter.com/PlanetBluesabre
