#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-23
<godbyk> I don't see anything useful there that you've missed.
<godbyk> Heh.. yeah, that's when Ben and I were blue-skying.
<ChrisWoollard> :)
<ChrisWoollard> Are there any paste bins or etherpads that you know of?
<godbyk> Heh.  Well, here are the ones I've collected over time.  Hasn't been updated in a while, though, so it's probably missing newer stuff: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPpads
<godbyk> Feel free to add to it.
<ChrisWoollard> Should I add all of them or just some of them or just link to this pad?
<godbyk> Add to what?
<ChrisWoollard> the notes page
<ChrisWoollard> a link to the pad
<godbyk> You could it you wanted to, I s'pose.
<godbyk> As long as people realize that the pads are likely out of date and may no longer be applicable to anything. :)
<ChrisWoollard> I have looked and I don't think much of that is applicable to the general populus of the project
<godbyk> Probably not.
<ChrisWoollard> Ahhhh. I know what I wanted to link to. The Style Guide for non irc people.
<godbyk> Ah, good idea.
<godbyk> We need to go through that sometime and update it, too.
<ChrisWoollard> Another thing. the topic of this channel still only says Lucid Edition 1 released
<godbyk> There are new/updated commands we should mention.  We also need to add lots of non-LaTeX stuff to it.
<godbyk> I'll try to figure out how to change the topic.
<godbyk> (Have to figure out how to invoke op abilities first.)
<ChrisWoollard> \msg chanserv recover
<ChrisWoollard> i think
<Omega> recover deops everyone
<Omega> and +im the channel
<Omega> If you want anyone to be able to change the topic
<Omega> -t the channel
<godbyk> Omega: I just want to change it once.
<godbyk> I think I'm on the channel ops list, but I've never invoked op power before.
<ChrisWoollard> just do \msg chanserv recover #ubuntu-manual
<ChrisWoollard> with the correct slash
<ChrisWoollard> or look at \msg chanserv help
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Tried that. I get an error telling my I'm not a channel operator.
<ChrisWoollard> Hmmm.
<ChrisWoollard> Maybe you don't have permissions
<Omega> no
<Omega> don't
<Omega> don't recover
<godbyk> Omega: Understood. :)
<Omega> recover only works for founder
<godbyk> Ah.
<godbyk> Makes sense.
<Omega> /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-manual
<Omega> And it doesn't do what you want it to do
<Omega> it _recovers_ the channel
<ChrisWoollard> ok, fair enough
* godbyk changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Lucid Edition 2 released! Go and download/buy it | Style Guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf | Website: http://ubuntu-manual.org | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
<Omega> (from evil)
<Omega> deops everyone
<Omega> mutes the channel
<Omega> and make it invite only
<ChrisWoollard> Doesn't that depend on the flags that have been set
<godbyk> Omega: I see now.  Thanks for the help!
<godbyk> Chaneserv op'd me when I asked it politely.
<Omega> Anytime.
<Omega> :)
<Omega> /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-manual Omega
<Omega> also works :P
<godbyk> The last time I was an op in an irc channel, we just kept op on all the time.  I didn't have to op/deop.  (I think it was EFnet in the 90s.)
<godbyk> Omega: Heh.. I bet! :)
<Omega> And EFnet still doesn't have services (except chanfix)
<Omega> Freenode is much cooler
<godbyk> I was poking around the freenode.net site and couldn't find anything explaining that process.  There's a guideline against keeping op privs, but nothing about how to actually keep/release them (that I noticed).
<godbyk> EFnet *still* doesn't have chanserv and the like?
<godbyk> Wow.
<Omega> Nope.
<Omega> You can't register a nick
<Omega> so people steal nicks
<godbyk> Right.
<Omega> Like, I recently lost 'Omega' there.
<ChrisWoollard> Well, I have also learnt a couple of things. Thanks Omega
<Omega> No problem.
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: I have created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/maverick/todo
<ChrisWoollard> Can you start to populate it.
<ChrisWoollard> And maybe get others to populate it.
<godbyk> For to do items, it might be better to use bugs or blueprints on launchpad.
<godbyk> brb
<godbyk> back
<ChrisWoollard> True, but it was only supposed to be a summary.
<ChrisWoollard> to try to gather some information together in a organised way.
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: pong
<ChrisWoollard> Just to let you know. I am going away for a few days. I don't know how much Internet access I will have. So that may mean that I won't be around for a few days trying to organise everybody.
<godbyk> Okay.
<ChrisWoollard> Goodness knows how I even started to do that anyway.
<godbyk> Vacation?
<ChrisWoollard> yes
<godbyk> Awesome.
<godbyk> Have fun!
<godbyk> Yeah, I started out on this project just working on the book design stuff.  Now I do.. more than that. :)
<ChrisWoollard> I would have expected Ben t direct more, but I don't see much off him.
<ChrisWoollard> to
<godbyk> Yeah, he's not been around much lately.
<ChrisWoollard> WHat is he up to?
<godbyk> A lot of other people who used to be around a lot haven't been around for a while, either.
<godbyk> I think he's been busy with school and his OMG! Ubuntu!-related stuff.
<ChrisWoollard> I hope nobody minds my organisation efforts.
<godbyk> I think they're appreciated.
<godbyk> I know I certainly appreciate them.
<godbyk> I've been busy with work and dissertation stuff lately and haven't had time to orchestrate everything here.
<ChrisWoollard> That's good.
<ChrisWoollard> Anyway, I need to go to bed. See you whenever next time is (a few days probably).
<godbyk> 'kay. G'night, ChrisWoollard.  Thanks for your help!
<ChrisWoollard> hey ben
<humphreybc> heya
<ChrisWoollard> how do you feel now?
<humphreybc> not too bad, still got this damn cough
<ChrisWoollard> Have a look at the wiki. I did some organisation.
<humphreybc> i have a tonne of work to do before the break which is this friday
<humphreybc> yeah, i saw
<humphreybc> good thinking
<humphreybc> (i'm subscribed to the /ubuntu-manual wiki so i see all changes)
<ChrisWoollard> i am going on vation for a few days now, so see you later
<ChrisWoollard> can you also write me a testimonial on my wiki?
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> I'll try to get around to it
<humphreybc> I need to make a list of these
<nisshh> humphreybc: your that popular are you? :)
<humphreybc> apparently
<nisshh> heh
<ChrisWoollard> I also have list from loads of people.
<ChrisWoollard> jenkins, godbyk, dakar.... etc etc...
<nisshh> humphreybc: should all new bugs against the manual be pointed at maverick release?
<ChrisWoollard> yes
<ChrisWoollard> unless they are translation issues.
<ChrisWoollard> bye
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> hey daker
<daker> hello
<daker> what's up ?
<humphreybc> i'm just about to go to sleep
<humphreybc> battery is dead
<humphreybc> how are the new sites?
<daker> they are standby for a while
<daker> for 2 or 3 days
<daker> i am working on something related  to UEC
<humphreybc> okkkkkkk
<nisshh> humphreybc: just quick before you go, you mentioned something about a new site design for OMG the other day, whats with that?
<nisshh> well, that worked well...
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> how odd
<dutchie> guy who sent me an email about translations just started chatting with me on jabber
<dutchie> i said "so you want to translate?", he said "how do you know?" so i replied "you sent me an email", then he disconnected
<daker> \o/
<nisshh> heh, that is strange
<dutchie> hmm, i think translation focus should be e2
<askhl_> Right, but the translation focus has changed back and forth recently, how about trying not to change it before it's really necessary?  I think also that translators should be advised, possibly *required*, to msgmerge from the e1 po-file.  Otherwise it's too much wasted time
<askhl_> as people will gladly start translating e2 even if there are suggestions for e1
<dpm> askhl_ <gettingtechnical> a comment on msgmerge: Launchpad should take care of that. You shouldn't need to msgmerge strings manually unless you are trying to reuse obsolete translations (i.e. to use strings which might normally be fuzzy but that LP does not show)</gettingtechnical>
<askhl_> dpm, fuzzies are essential in documentation translations such as those in the ubuntu manual.  Particularly since lots of strings have tiny typo fixes, maybe single-character fixes, which will invalidate the entire string if there's no explicit fuzzy-support
<dpm> askhl_ yeah, I just wanted to make sure you meant that use case for the need of msgmerge
<askhl_> Basically it's much more important for ubuntu-manual than it is for applications
<dutchie> godbyk: ping
 * jenkins goes to install mavrick
<jenkins> well the mavrick installer is not working
<Muscovy> I couldn't install until alpha3.
<jenkins> I was effected by a bug that effects all usb drives made on lucid and below. then the installer would not work in various ways
<Muscovy> I hit that, so I just burned a CD.
<Muscovy> I never got beyond booting with the USB drive though.
<jenkins> there is a fix for it in the bug, I find a cd is slow
#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-24
<jenkins> evening all
<thorwil> good evening, jenkins
<jenkins> hey thorwil
<thorwil> jenkins: memoserv just notified me of a message from the 15th, in a PM tab with someone else 0.o
<thorwil> about http://imagebin.org/109820
<jenkins> strange, thats old news
<thorwil> memo to self: memoserv might be so dogdy it's useless
<jenkins> yea sorry about that I do rarely use it
<jenkins> I got very exited about it and was about to tell you an you decided to go to bed :)
 * jenkins can get excited easily
<thorwil> heh
<flan> jenkins, http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/10-04/progress?language=en_CA Note how it falls back to 'en' because en_CA isn't known to the project.
<flan> http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/10-04/progress?language=en_GB And now note that the progress indicators are different, as is one of the friendly names.
<flan> Because en_GB is a special localization.
<flan> (This is what the client will see, not the end users)
<jenkins> thats cool flan, I now want cake
<flan> I want cake, too.
<flan> I think this'll let us drop the dependency on babel.
<flan> But lunch break's been over for half an hour, so I should get back to work.
<flan> More progress tomorrow.
<jenkins> well I rembered what bebal does and its more than we think. I will try and do some on the weekend work is tiying me out
 * flan kills the server, since it's still running is debug mode... behind a double-NAT with terrible port-redirection rules.
 * flan ahtes new ISP's blocking policies.
<flan> Oh? What else does it do?
<flan> Aside from resolving pretty names.
<flan> Which is good, but probably something we can handle ourselves by extracting its codepages.
<flan> (And maybe delay until a 1.1 release)
<jenkins>  it checks for the language variable in several places, which ones I can't remember. we could do it our self
<flan> I'm hoping to have the new client-server interface code ready for you by this weekend.
<flan> I'll use next week to try to write the screenshot-management code on the server's side.
<jenkins> cool, I will see what I can do I am off next week.
 * jenkins has to learn visual basic at work
<flan> :(
<flan> Dim Universe As OhIDontKnowBecauseeveryoneWhoUsesTheLanguageJustDeclaresThingsAsVariantsBecauseTheyDontKnowWhatTheyreDoing
<flan> AlsoMicrosoftLikesCapitalizingEverythingInOneBigLongChainOfCharacters
<flan> ItIsVeryAnnoyingAndIHateItAndItShouldDie
<jenkins> I noticed
<jenkins> I said I like programing and now I think I wll be getting all the vb stuff
<flan> Argue that it's not really programming.
<flan> Even though it kinda is. Now. After, like, ten generations.
<jenkins> well it will be some thing to add to my cv
<flan> I'd be embarrassed to have it on mine. But, then again, I'm weird.
<jenkins> as a student as many skills as possible is good. in my office one person uses unr and another uses jolly cloud
<thorwil> knowing your way around vb is a skill, not a defect? ^^
<Omega> 1
#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-26
<godbyk> Hey, thorwil.  Do you think you'll stick to the same title page for the Maverick edition or design something new?
<thorwil> godbyk: same design, unless i stumble over a magically hidden time slot and can then design something better :)
<godbyk> thorwil: Duly noted. :)
<godbyk> I'll change the title text on the one in the maverick repository and regenerate the PDFs then.  (Unless you'd prefer to do it yourself.)
<thorwil> godbyk: i do that myself sometime later
<godbyk> thorwil: Okay, cool. Thanks!
<godbyk> (I only ask because I know that somebody will inevitably freak if they see a 10.04 title page on the maverick draft PDF.)
<thorwil> godbyk: so the branch is ready, cleaned up and the templates are all there?
<godbyk> thorwil: yeah, I wiped the maverick branch and created a brand new one.
<godbyk> then I copied over the .tex files and svgs from the lucid-e2 branch.
<nisshh> oh that reminds me...
<nisshh> godbyk: we are going to need a title page for the dev manual soon
<godbyk> nisshh: thorwil's your man! :-)
<godbyk> (you can thank me later, thorwil!)
<nisshh> hahaha
<nisshh> thorwil: are you willing to create a title page for the dev manual?
<thorwil> nisshh: rather not
<nisshh> thorwil: <puppy eyes> please? </puppy eyes>
 * godbyk suspects thorwil has suddenly become more of a cat person.
<nisshh> hehe
<thorwil> lol. i have always been more of a cat person :)
 * nisshh hands thorwil a cat over irc
<nisshh> how about now?
 * thorwil sees the operation fail as the cat claws nisshh 
<nisshh> your so cruel thorwil :)
<nisshh> thorwil: ok, so you wont do it?
<thorwil> nisshh: do you see a way how the same icon approach could work?
<nisshh> thorwil: your suggesting using the title page already created for the dev manual as well?
<thorwil> nisshh: it's worth a thought. what's the title?
<nisshh> thorwil: Ubuntu Developer Manual
<nisshh> thorwil: the icons would look kind of out of place, i was planning on using some more appropriate ones
<thorwil> nisshh: of course. that would be the idea
<nisshh> yea
<godbyk> there's a cricket in my room that won't SHUT UP!
<nisshh> hehe
<godbyk> finally.. he's quiet now.  wonder how long it'll last.
<nisshh> godbyk: i know how you feel, my motherboard has a habit of making my computer case rattle REALLY LOUDLY
<nisshh> all the time
<nisshh> godbyk: i estimate about 40 seconds
<godbyk> I think I've startled it into silence for a bit.
<godbyk> Oh, great. Apparently, there's now a debate on the text justification issue.  thorwil, make it all go away!  :)
<nisshh> godbyk: it probably saw you and thought "oh shit, he is looking at me weird"
<godbyk> frak.. the cricket's chirping again.
<godbyk> So the answer is: 3 minutes.
<nisshh> lucky i didnt bet anything
<godbyk> This may be a more irksome version of The Tell-Tale Heart.
<nisshh> thorwil: sorry to bother you (again) but you didnt actually tell me if you were going to do it or not :)
<thorwil> nisshh: my "rather not" still stands
<nisshh> thorwil: ok, ill either find someone more willing, or ill try it myself, thanks anyway dude :)
<thorwil> nisshh: in any case, you could go through the same thought process that got as the getting started title page. think of possible motives, be it a new set of icons, or something else
<thorwil> nisshh: if you can present something i can build on, it will become much more likely taht i do the rest
<nisshh> thorwil: good idea
<nisshh> ok
 * nisshh starts thinking
<nisshh> thorwil: so if i get all the required stuff like title, other text, icons, etc you MIGHT be happy to just blend it together for me?
<thorwil> yeah
<nisshh> ok
<godbyk> thorwil: I'll let them duke out the icons stuff. I'm headed to bed. :)
<thorwil> godbyk: icons stuff?
<godbyk> thorwil: in #ubuntu-meeting.
<thorwil> godbyk: you want to leave such a productive discussion? ;)  have a nice dream
<godbyk> thorwil: It's pretty hard to tear myself away. ;-)
<flan> jenkins needs more being-around.
 * flan needs to know what interfaces need to be implemented.
<thorwil> godbyk: we had it easy with font selection: http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/type_is_in_the_details.php
<jenkins> flan: have you contacted sampath ?
<flan> I have.
<flan> No response.
<jenkins> k thanks we shall wait and see
<flan> Can you remind me which ways a user will have to choose a project?
<flan> There's loading a .qsproj file, entering a project URL directly...
<flan> Was there anything else? Aside from accessing a recently opened project, which is just a special case of entering a URL directly./
<jenkins> I have not done loading yet. I thought the main server was going to act as a list as well
<flan> That's just a special case of qsproj, once we've got it working.
<flan> I'm just wondering for my purposes, for the interface module I'll need to hand to you very soon.
<flan> Basically, I'll just have you call "load_qsproj(path_to_file/url)" or "load_url(url)".
<flan> And have it return a session object or raise an exception.
<flan> Other arguments, like username and working language and stuff, will be needed, of course.
<jenkins> sounds good to me :)
<flan> Yay.
<flan> I'm still on track to have that for you by sometime on your Saturday.
<jenkins> wow thats great I will get learning
<flan> With all server functionality on Sunday.
<flan> So I can help you next week.
<flan> I've got someone who can help tweak the UI, appearance-wise, while we make the internals function, if we need him.
<jenkins> and I am off all next week so lots of time
<jenkins> that also sounds good
<jenkins> be back later
<flan> It's safe to assume anyone authoring documentation in the F/OSS world has something than can handle CSV, right?
<flan> (I have Quickshot generating a list of people who've uploaded screenshots as a CSV file)
<flan> jenkins, CSV seems like it should be a universally viable format for transporting simple tabular report-data, right?
<jenkins> yep makes sense to me just read wikipedia
<flan> I'm lazy. tl;dr me.
<flan> I implemented contributor reports using CSV and just wanted to make sure nobody'd object.
<flan> But the channel is silent.
<flan> Kinda strange, considering how near the writing freeze happens to be.
<jenkins> yep it is strange but unfortunatly most of us have jobs :(]
<flan> You people and your gainful employment.
<jenkins> I am enjoying my job but it does make me tired. I will get use to it. When I get back to uni I will have some time
<flan> Mine needs less-legacy.
<flan> Why can't programmers program? D:
<flan> Yay. Just two more variables to define and then stuff to compile-test and then I can convince myself that there's no way I could do anything productive in the remaining thirty minutes and write another QS client-interface component.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-27
<jenkins> evening all
<daker> should we translate lucid-e2 ?
<jenkins> I don't see why not
<thorwil> godbyk: do you recall why some of the title page SVGs have lining figures and others text figures?
<thorwil> godbyk: anyway, pushed title page SVGs with "10.10"
<flan> Aww... jenkins didn't respond to my bragging. D:
<flan> Did you get my random gloating, jenkins?
<flan> Just asking so it doesn't stay in MemoServ forever.
<flan> I should have the last two client-library functions written and documented for you by the time you wake up.
<jenkins> I did get it thanks flan :) thats brilliant news
<flan> I think you'll like the inline quality-conversion/thumbnail-generation features.
<flan> They should help with keeping load down for people with closer connections to the server.
<flan> slower*
<jenkins> that does sound like a good idea, you are very clever fla
<jenkins> n
 * flan does not deal with flattery well.
<flan> <violent-rage-here/>
<flan> quality=0/quality=1..100 for PNG/JPEG. thumbnail=None/thumbnail=(x, y) for scaling.
<flan> In case you want to limit the size of the viewport for either the reference or the most recent submission, in the event that the user wants to decide whether they should retake a screenshot.
<jenkins> right makes sense
<flan> Oh. Also, you can pass a tempfile to the uploader, so I'll be reworking the capture code to do that instead of writing a file to ~/.quickshot.
<jenkins> ok I am putting logs in ~/.quickshot so they can go there still if you like
<flan> We'll just need to store the reference string in memory when they go to take a screenshot so we can show it to them before and after they actually capture something, rather than have to hit the server twice. (If that fits with your flow)
<flan> Oh, I know ~/.quickshot will still exist. I'm just saying we don't need to put a named tempfile in there. Less stuff for the process to manage.
 * flan likes minimalism./
<jenkins> yep thats cool
<flan> Lemme know if you can think of any transformations that might be helpful additions to the image-access stuff.
<flan> PIL exposes a lot of power.
<jenkins> I will do I can't think of any at the moment
<jenkins> hey daker
<daker> jenkins, yep
<jenkins> hows the quickshot site going?
<daker> i need to fix the contact page
<flan> We'll probably want to wait until any major bugs have been found during the Maverick test cycle before publishing it.
<jenkins> sounds good, do let me/us know if there is any info you need
<daker> jenkins, oki
<flan> My info's available under red-hamsterx@launchpad or via 'whois uguu.ca'. The later's better for stalking.
<daker> who is hosting qs.org ?
<flan> Dunno.
<flan> godbyk, do you know?
<jenkins> I think kevin is
<flan> Actually, there's an easy way to check.
<flan> Yep.
<flan> He's listed as the admin and tech. Someone names Horia Adelean registred it, though.
<flan> (whois record)
<jenkins> yep basiaclly some one randomly droped by and payed for the domain and told godbyk
<flan> Crazy people.
<jenkins> well I would thank them if i knew who it wa
<jenkins> s
<flan> Oh, well. It just means we have a user who cares.
<flan> And that's worth a lot, motivation-wise.
<jenkins> lol A user :P
<flan> Their e-mail address is in the whois result.
<flan> We should thank them once we release 1.0.
<jenkins> yep
<jenkins> whois record
<flan> ?
<jenkins> don't worry copy and paste error
<flan> Only *I* may correct terminology arbitrarily.
<flan> You're not nearly enough of an arrogant jerk to do it. =P
 * flan arrogant jerk.
<jenkins> I can't read I thought "record" was their nick It actually is not :P
<flan> Whoa. It's a three-year registration.
<jenkins> wow thats well cool
<jenkins> how do you find this all out?
<flan> whois.
<jenkins> has anyone got the htc desire?
<flan> New terminal -> "whois quickshot.org"
<jenkins> thats great we must contact them]
<flan> If you ever need to yell at a (small) ISP over some technical issue, look them up and contact the listed tech -- it'll usually be someone in network operations, which means they're generally well-suited to address your concerns.
<flan> Same for most businesses.
<godbyk> Yeah, they just stopped buy and bought the domain -- it was the first domain name they'd ever purchased, even.
<godbyk> And I don't recall seeing them since.
<flan> They must love us. o.o
<flan> Me and my weird emoticon-auto-response.
<godbyk> Unfortunately, a lot of whois records now just have placeholder info for the contact information. So it's hard to contact people directly.
<flan> Hency why I qualified that with 'small'.
<godbyk> (It's usually to try to reduce the amount of spam you get -- both electronic mail and snail mail.)
<flan> It's a bit harder to get away with placeholder info in Canada.
<flan> CIRA demands real contacts.
<godbyk> I'm a bit old-fashioned, though, and still trust people now to be mean and prefer to have my contact information readily available.
<flan> Same.
<godbyk> I think that most registrars require real info, but then a lot of them let you mask that info so it doesn't appear publicly.
<flan> This is also true.
<godbyk> They assign you some random garbage email address that forwards, etc.
 * flan goes home to write more code.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-28
<godbyk> Whee! Just got my copy of the 16th edition of the Chicago Manual of Style.
<godbyk> (It's okay, I realize no one but me will be excited by this.)  :)
<flan> I'd be marginally excited if I subscribed to that editorial style.
<godbyk> flan: I don't agree with all their choices, but it's a decent foundation.
<godbyk> If I were working on text in the UK, I would probably not use Chicago style either.
<flan> Yay~ I was mistaken for a Brit~
<flan> Actually, I just haven't ever taken a serious look at any current mainstream style-guides.
<flan> So I don't subscribe to any of them.
<godbyk> Ah, gotcha.
<thorwil> good morning!
<daker> godbyk, ping
<daker> godbyk, http://paste.ubuntu.com/484959/
<daker> godbyk, a lot of them are 404
<flan> Just two pages left before the QS server is functionally complete. Yay!
<flan> (Screenshot-details-translation, which I expect will almost never be used, and the actual page for approving screenshots)
 * jenkins is running mavrick
 * flan fears Maverick.
 * flan is still running KArmic on his main development system.
<flan> Main non-Debian development system*
<flan> Lucid's on the laptops and VMs, though.
<Muscovy> I got over my fear of Maverick.
<jenkins> evening again everyone
<Muscovy> Hello.
<jenkins> hey Muscovy hows things
<Muscovy> Good.
<jenkins> thats nice then :)
#ubuntu-manual 2010-08-29
<flan> Just one page left for the server. Yay.
<flan> (But it's a big one and I'll have to write at least one support page to feed it information)
<godbyk> daker: pong.
<godbyk> daker: Is that from a TeX Live installation?  If so, you may want to try a different mirror.
<Muscovy> Does the Maverick writing freeze mean it's just editing from then on?
<godbyk> Muscovy: Basically, yeah.
<Muscovy> I'd better get writing then.
<Muscovy> :P
<godbyk> Yeah, I know. We don't have a lot of time. :)
<Muscovy> Yeah, let's not do this again for Natty.
<godbyk> It's always a bit of a race since we're try to release the manual at the same time as Ubuntu is released.
<godbyk> And it's hard to start writing and taking screenshots until after the UI freeze.
<vish> hrm...
<thorwil> i wonder if a green-screening like approach could be applied to the wallpaper for screenshots
<nisshh> thorwil: what do you mean>
<nisshh> ?
<thorwil> nisshh: suppose the default wallpaper will change before release, but we start taking screenshots now. could one switch to seldomly used solid color or a pattern as background, to later on replace all parts of it shining through with the final wallpaper?
<thorwil> but that was just a quick thought, partial transparency willmake that non-trivial
<nisshh> thorwil: hmm, yea its doable, but that would take AGES since each one would most likely have to be done individually
<nisshh> it would be different for each screenshot so its probably not automagical
<flan> Well, a lot of screenshots won't expose any part of the wallpaper at all.
<flan> So we could define all of those on the Quickshot server once I finish its base implementation in a few hours and start capturing those.
<flan> Then define the rest once we know what the final wallpaper will look like.
<flan> start capturing them*
<flan> Or define everything and just keep the wallpaper-exposing ones disabled until we're ready for them.
<flan> The hold-up will be the QS client, which, though I'm sure it's getting close to being done, won't be available much before the freeze.
<flan> I'll be switching focus to help Jenkins with it starting tomorrow.
<flan> Any web-designer-types around right now?
<thorwil> hmm
<flan> (Simple question related to DOM-ordering, 'cause my mind's not working right at the moment)
<thorwil> flan: that's not my thing, but how about you just ask? :)
<flan> Because I'm not thinking right. =P
<flan> <span id="x">Hello!</span> <!--How could I change the value of that element without innerHTML?-->
<flan> I can't remember which node I need to tweak.
<flan> And my code's not close enough to complete to just try it.
<flan> Oh. .data.
<flan> Issue resolved.
<thorwil> glad i could be of help ;)
<flan> Quite. =P
<jenkins> flan: ping
<jenkins> nisshh ping
<flan> Hi.
<jenkins> hey flan can you have a look at lp:quickshot please
<flan> What do you want me to look for?
<jenkins> quickly run does not work giving and error
<jenkins> *an
<jenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/485544/
<jenkins> but the folder is there, i moved everything to do with the program to the "source" folder and now it will not run. I am not sure if it has something to do with a missing package in mavrick as I have jsut changed to it. I thought I had it working again
<flan> quickshot.py
<jenkins> that error comes form the quickshot file in the source/bin folder
<flan> I realize that. But Python expected a .py, .pyc, or .pyc file to match the name of the provided module, unless working with C extensions or doing something low-level with the import engine.
<flan> expects*
<flan> You're going to be breaking that monolithic file into smaller pieces anyway, so you might as well start separating it now.
<flan> I should be (effectively) done with the server in about two hours.
<jenkins> i am not following completly, that line (that is causing the error) worked before whats wrong with it?
<flan> From what I can see of your paste, it's that it can't find a module named 'quickshot'.
<flan> Which is where it expects to find the class you defined.
<flan> When the 'quickshot' executable file is run directly, its module-name is '__main__', not 'quickshot'.
<jenkins> I always read that line ( from quickshot import AboutQuickshotDialog ) to be from the folder quickshot import the file AboutQuickshotDialog
<flan> Nope.
<flan> From the file 'quickshot.py'.
<flan> (Or pyc or pyo)
<flan> It expects to find it either in the current package or in the process's root path, by default.
<jenkins> well the file AboutQuickshotDialog is in a folder called "quickshot" :/ so has that bit of code always been screwed?
<flan> import sys; print sys.path to see its search targets and order.
<flan> Where's the file that holds the definition?
<jenkins> the path is imported before the line from....
<jenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/485549/ is the file
<flan> ...An insert into sys.path?
<flan> Did you write that or was it Simon?
<jenkins> I don't know who wrote it may have been tommy
<flan> Eew...
<jenkins> http://imagebin.org/111924 is the file layout
<flan> Not Tommy. But that code.
<jenkins> lol
<flan> Looks like this is gonna be a busy week.
<jenkins> yea I have to start learning stuff, I have reached my limit on knoledge
<flan> That import's going to fail because 'quickshot' isn't resolvable.
<flan> First, you'll need to define an __init__.py in quickshot/ so Python will recognize the directory as a package.
<flan> Second, you'll need to make that "import quickshot.AboutQuickshotDialog as AboutQuickshotDialog", unless you're like me and prefer infrequently used references to be explicit.
<flan> In that case, you'd drop 'as' and refer to the full dotted path every time.
<jenkins> ok I will have a go at the __inti.py
<flan> touch __init__.py && bzr add __init__.py
<flan> It can be empty.
<jenkins> o it turns out that is just a file :P
<jenkins> just worked that out
<flan> It probably should be empty, until you're comfortable with writing packages as libraries.
<flan> (We won't need to do that here, since you're writing application-level code)
<jenkins> adding the init file makes it all work again I wonder if I removed it accedently
<jenkins> yey got it working again fixed another problem
<flan> Yay.
<nisshh> jenkins: sorry, i was afk for a while, did you want something?
<jenkins> hey nisshh I was just going to say i will try and finish my chapter off for the manual. I have been real busy with work lately
<nisshh> jenkins: cool, i was going to do some work on the dev manual today, but i didnt get home till later so it didnt really work out
<jenkins> just have to wait for another day then :)
<nisshh> hehe
<jenkins> flan: what would be the best way to make a spinner from http://imagebin.org/111925
<nisshh> jenkins: anyway, im off to bed its nearly 4am here
<nisshh> night
<jenkins> night
<jenkins> I have the gkt spinner source code but it is not in python http://paste.ubuntu.com/485557/
<flan> That should be in pyGTK somewhere.
<jenkins> i can use it in pyhton but it gives an awful spinner that looks weedy
<flan> Can you provide a screenshot?
<flan> It might not be bad as a placeholder.
<flan> We don't have much time left, and a spinner's less important than having a clean codebase.
<flan> Making that one work wouldn't be hard, but it'd take time that might be better spent elsehwree at this point.
<flan> (It'd basically be a matter of loading the image, splitting it into pieces, and blitting those to a widget at regular intervals)
<jenkins> I will post a screenshot when I can make the spinner work again :) I lost the file with it in
<flan> If it's not hyper-critical, leave it aside and focus on functionality.
<flan> We can pack a widget into the box during the pre-Maverick cycle.
<flan> We'll be using that period as a buffer for testing and polish anyway. (unfortunately)
<flan> (Stupid me-moving)
<jenkins> http://imagebin.org/111927
<flan> Looks fine to me. Until we have time to do something better.
<flan> But that one has the advantage of improving authomatically.
<flan> As GTK gets better (or the user gets better themes for the engine), the spinner should look better, too.
<jenkins> I need to work out this whole inheritance thing. Can i use the inheritance thing to import a spinner and a text box into the space of the tables whilst the data is being downlaoded?
<flan> Re-inventing the wheel (literally) may be counter-productive here.
<jenkins> well there is a better spinner in evolution and other programs
<flan> Y...es... but probabky not the way you're imagining it.
<flan> You'll probably want a library of UI eyecandy for that.
<flan> With functions you can call that return appropriate GTK objects to pack into boxes.
<flan> Data's going to download pretty fast now.
<jenkins> ok I will leave them out for now
<flan> The whole bzr layer's gone and it's running in SQLite/filesystem stuff.
<flan> It should be no slower than the time it takes to ping, plus a millisecond or ten.
<flan> http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/10-04/en_CA/_progress However long it takes for you to download this is how long the user'd need to wait to get data from the network.
<jenkins> cool that is fast so how do i get the data into the program?
<flan> http://pastebin.com/PvJiGeKv
<flan> It'll be faster once I turn off debug mode ont he server.
<flan> Just create a session using one of the two profvided functions and then call query_progress().
<flan> It returns data in much the same way as the old system.
<flan> (needed, pending, accepted)
<flan> The main difference is that you'll get both a localized friendly name and the internal system name.
<flan> The user needs to see the friendly name, while the server needs to get the system name in any upload/download requests.
<jenkins> which provided functions?
<flan> client/__init__.py They're near the bottom.
<flan> Everything's documented.
<flan> Put client/ into a lib/ directory and import it as 'lib/client'.
<flan> You can rename it if you want.
<flan> Er...
<flan> lib/client*
<flan> lib.client*
 * flan eats keyboard.
<jenkins> ok thanks I will have a read and paly
<flan> Usage samples can be found in r142 on the server branch.
<flan> It'll provide details like screen resolution, too.
<flan> It's worth playing around with the library from an interpreter.
<jenkins> will do
<jenkins> night all, thanks for you help flan
<flan> G'night~
 * flan pushes support for rejecting screenshots.
<flan> Just two more features left~
<flan> Aww... He left too quickly. :(
<flan> QS server's effectively done. Yay.
<flan> Just need to comment it all (hundreds of functions!) and get feedback from real users... which, unfortunately, won't happen until it's actually needed.
<flan> Hooray for moving!
<flan> godbyk, it seems I have no trouble hosting it from home, and I still need to write a couple of support scripts and document how to host it on something common, like mod_wsgi, so I'll probably just run the site through this cycle. It'll make it easier to fix any bugs that might come up, too.
<flan> If hosting from home becomes an issue, I'll move it to my webhost or put it on one of my Debian boxes at work and bounce DNS from my host.
<flan> (Or let you set up a DNS record for it)
<flan> (Which we could also do for hosting from home, if you want things to look consistent)
<flan> (Just cname against hamsterx.homelinux.org, since my home IP is technically dynamic)
#ubuntu-manual 2011-08-22
<R33D3M33R> hello, so when are you going to update website translations?
#ubuntu-manual 2012-08-24
<nautu> hi
<nautu> finally i made it
<nautu> im looking a kevin who can help me to join the ubuntu manual translation group
<nautu> since i am a user
<nautu> or any who can help
<nautu> me
<thorwil> wtf? http://jhosman.com/es/documentacion-ubuntu/general14/269-ubuntu-12-04-1-lts-disponible-para-descargar.html
<Guest24332> thorwil: what do you mean with wtf?
<thorwil> Guest24332: the use of the ubuntu manual title graphics for something unrelated. in combination with a clueless manipulation of that design (adding the .1)
<Guest24332> Oh, now I see the .1 Well, that is indeed not so nice. They should at minimum mention the manual if they use the title page.
<thorwil> well, i wrote an email to him, asking to not use it out of context
#ubuntu-manual 2012-08-25
<Raju_> Hi everybody this is natarajan, new to the ubuntu manual group
<PatrickDickey> Did I miss the meeting? (I haven't checked the time yet. :S )
<carsten_g> Hi Patrick
<carsten_g> No, it is tomorrow. :-)
<PatrickDickey> LOL That figures.
<PatrickDickey> It's just an introduction meeting for new authors, right?
<carsten_g> Yes
<carsten_g> Do you join?
<PatrickDickey> I will if I'm awake. I'm working third shift (7 pm to 5 am) tomorrow, so I'll be sleeping around the time of the meeting.
<carsten_g> Oh I see. Don't let ring the alarm for the meeting, the sleep is more important. :-)
<PatrickDickey> It'll all depend on how late I stay up tonight, I guess. I went to bed early enough last night, that I'm up already.
<PatrickDickey> Carsten, off hand, do you remember the defaults for the texlive installation?  For the symlinks? Tejas Kale posted to the mailing list that his installer doesn't have any defaults listed when he goes to create the symlinks (Option O then L).
<carsten_g> one moment, I'll have a look
<godbyk> It's strange that it isn't showing the defaults.
<godbyk> I think they should all be subdirs of /usr/local by default
<godbyk> (/usr/local/bin for binaries, /usr/local/lib for libraries, etc.)
<godbyk> There's also a way to get the symlinks created after the installation is finished, but I'd have to look it up again. tlmgr knows how.
<godbyk> From his email it sounds like he's already removed the first installation, though. :(
<carsten_g> I see the defaults
<carsten_g> /usr/local/bin for binaries
<carsten_g> /usr/local/man for manpages
<carsten_g> /usr/local/info for info
<godbyk> Does anyone else find Launchpad to be confusing or is it just me?
<carsten_g> No, you are not alone. :-)
<godbyk> Thanks, carsten_g. :)
<carsten_g> But I think, it would be better, if Launchpad would be translatable
<godbyk> At this point, it'd be immensely helpful if they'd just put little edit buttons next to every field they show. That way I don't have to go digging through myriads of links to figure out where that setting is at.
<godbyk> Launchpad can't be translated?  Really?!
<carsten_g> No, as far as I know.
<godbyk> Somehow, the oneiric branch has a review 'team': https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/oneiric
<carsten_g> See https://translations.launchpad.net/launchpad
<godbyk> Okay, to fix the symlinks using tlmgr (I found an old email I sent):  sudo /usr/local/texlive/2012/bin/x86_64-linux/tlmgr path add
<godbyk> (might have to change the x86_64-linux bit to match your system architecture)
<godbyk> carsten_g: That's disappointing.
<carsten_g> There are some bugs for that, but I see no development in this direction, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/3896
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 3896 in launchpad "Launchpad itself is not translatable in Launchpad" [Low,Triaged]
<godbyk> Heh.. classy.
<carsten_g> Hey, how or what is manualbot?
<PatrickDickey> I figured out what Tejas was doing. He hit "O", and it doesn't show the defaults. But, when he hits "L", it will.
<godbyk> PatrickDickey: Ah! That makes sense.
<godbyk> carsten_g: It's an IRC bot. It can look up bug summaries and other useful tidbits.
<carsten_g> ah, I see.
<godbyk> I think it may know some stuff about LaTeX, too, but I don't recall.
<carsten_g> Is there a link with explanations of that bot?
<godbyk> carsten_g: I don't have one right off. It's a supybot, though.
<godbyk> I should track down its owner. (I can't remember who it was that set it up now..)
<godbyk> Hmm.. this doesn't bode well..
<godbyk> I updated all the TeX Live packages last night and now I can't build the manual.
<PatrickDickey> You can get some minor information by messaging it. /msg manualbot help will give you a start.
<godbyk> It looks like xindy might hate me.
 * PatrickDickey ruh roh... looks at his texlive installation
<PatrickDickey> I'm updating it right now with the 2012 installation.
 * PatrickDickey has a long ways to go before he knows if it's trashed...  7:02:15. I'm on 16 of 2520 right now.
<carsten_g> Huuh, yesterday and today I had the same "Problem" with TeX Live 2012
<carsten_g>  :-))
<carsten_g> First I tried the upstream installation and forgot the symlinks^^
<carsten_g> So I deleted it completely and tried the quantal backports.
<carsten_g> This works now , xindy too. :-)
<PatrickDickey> So it might be something with the upstream version?
<carsten_g> Well, I think my problem was the forgotten symlinks.
<carsten_g> I did not test it with them again.
<PatrickDickey> Gottcha.
<PatrickDickey> There's a gui for the installer, right? I think you were the one that mentioned it to John (c7p)
<carsten_g> Yes
<carsten_g> Who knows, why these symlinks are not activated by default... :-/
<PatrickDickey> It's probably something that they forgot to do (or have a good reason for) and while everyone's annoyed by it, no one bothers to point it out to them.
<godbyk> Well, you could set the installation directory to /usr instead of /usr/local and then you wouldn't need the symlinks.
<godbyk> I tried rewriting the instructions a while back to make it clearer that you needed to create the symlinks but people still seem to miss that note.
<godbyk> I'm not sure what to do about it. Are the instructions unclear? Are people not reading the instructions?
<carsten_g> well, it will be the last thing.
<godbyk> carsten_g: I'm going to work on updating the install-pkgs.sh script to check the tlmgr symlinks and also work with the TL 2012 PPA packages. I just wanted to give you a heads-up.
<carsten_g> I think, this is a very important point (the symlinks) and for that the corresponding section should be more dominant on the website
<godbyk> carsten_g: Suggestions on how to improve the instructions?
<godbyk> brb
<carsten_g> And the installation will start and finish without problems. If you forget the symlinks, you will notice that when it is to late...
<carsten_g> Well, maybe there can be such a warning symbol, as we have it in the manual.
<carsten_g> Yes, this would be a good help, if the install-pkgs.sh script can detect and fix the missing symlinks
<PatrickDickey> I just sent off an email to the tug mailing list asking about the symlinks. It'll be interesting to see what reason they have.
<carsten_g> Great, please post the response on our list
<PatrickDickey> I'll do that. I probably won't get anything until tomorrow morning. I set my subscription to a daily digest.
<carsten_g> godbyk: are you still online?
<godbyk> carsten_g: yep
<carsten_g> I found an issue which may affect all translations...^^
<carsten_g> DId you already compile a translated version?
<carsten_g> Then you will see at 6 positions in the document a straight sign (looks like a square with an cross included), for example on the blank page before chapter 2 "The Ubuntu desktop"
<godbyk> Which edition and language are you looking at?
<carsten_g> I found out, that we have six tex files which start with an BOM (Byte order mark), see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_order_mark
<carsten_g> ... German version precise-e2
<carsten_g> but this affects other languages too.
<godbyk> Those are still around? I manually removed a few of those that I found. i must've missed some.
<carsten_g> Yes, look in the pot file, line 2251
<carsten_g> There you see the list of affected files.
<godbyk> it looks like there are 6 files that contain U+FEFF:
<carsten_g> yep
<godbyk> software-management/software-management.tex:1:ï»¿% Chapter 5 - Software and Packaging/Software Management
<godbyk> ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-desktop.tex:1:ï»¿%Chapter 2 - c7p, hannie
<godbyk> working-with-ubuntu/viewing-and-editing-photos.tex:1:ï»¿%written by Luke Jennings ubuntujenkins@googlemail.com
<godbyk> working-with-ubuntu/linuxaltapps.tex:1:ï»¿%proposed location Chapter 3
<godbyk> working-with-ubuntu/readingcomposingemail.tex:1:ï»¿%Author: Che Dean
<godbyk> working-with-ubuntu/microblogging.tex:1:ï»¿% written by Luke Jennings ubuntujenkins@googlemail.com
<carsten_g> I think we should fix this and update the pot file again on Launchpad
<carsten_g> Because you get an extra translation entry for that sign, see https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/precise-e2/+pots/ubuntu-manual/de/255/+translate
<carsten_g> Hi Nautu
<godbyk> carsten_g: I'll do that. It'll probably take a day or two for the updated .pot to make it through the translation queue, though.
<carsten_g> ok
<carsten_g> The question is, how can we avoid this in the future?
<godbyk> The next step is for us to figure out who put the BOMs there and what editor they were using. Then we can help them (and others) ensure that their editors aren't inserting BOMs.
<carsten_g> Yes
<carsten_g> And can we make a check in the Makefile which look for the BOMs?
<godbyk> carsten_g: We can add a check to the Makefile, yes. I'll do that.
<godbyk> carsten_g: As for preventing it, we should ensure that everyone has their editors set to the proper settings (i.e., not to insert BOMs into our .tex files).
<godbyk> I've uploaded the new .pot file and pushed all the changes to bzr.
<carsten_g> Yes, that's right
<carsten_g> I use gedit, and see not such a setting...
<godbyk> Normally, the BOM gets inserted into UTF-16-encoded files.
<carsten_g> Has your editor such a setting?
<godbyk> But some editors may include it with UTF-8, too.
<godbyk> The setting is likely just the file encoding when you go to file > save as..
<godbyk> it looks like most of the BOMs were inserted in the oneiric repository.
<godbyk> natty only has a couple of them.
<godbyk> but oneiric has a dozen.
<godbyk> maverick doesn't have any.
<godbyk> I misspoke.. oneiric only has half a dozen.
<godbyk> (I had copies of the files so they were counted twice.)
<godbyk> You might look in the oneiric repository at the working-with-ubuntu/viewing-and-editing-photos.tex file. Look at the diffs at each revision and see when the BOM was introduced.
<carsten_g> A I see, Rick Fosburgh has done it in rev 48
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/48 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 48
<carsten_g> be quiet manualbot :-)
<carsten_g> So, I say good night
<carsten_g> See you tomorrow evening in the meeting.
#ubuntu-manual 2012-08-26
<carsten_g> Good morning together
<CarstenG> Good morning again
<CarstenG> Hi thorwil and sagaci
<sagaci> hi CarstenG
<thorwil> aloha
<CarstenG> hi patrick
<CarstenG> hi noran
<noran> hi
<noran> hi everybody
<patrickdickey> Hi everyone.
<CarstenG> hi
<CarstenG> Hi John
<c7p> hello !
<CarstenG> hi Hannie
<hannie> hey CarstenG
 * godbyk curses xindy/makeglossaries..
<hannie> hello ajmontag
<ajmontag> hello
<hannie> hi godbyk
<godbyk> Hello, hannie. Good to have you back!
<hannie> thanks, I am a bit unprepared. Hope you do not mind
<CarstenG> Hi mike
<Guest91492> Hello
<hannie> mike = mikeR?
<Guest91492> Yes
<hannie> welcome to the club
<hannie> godbyk, will c7p attend?
<CarstenG> John is already here :-)
<hannie> oops
<c7p> hello
<c7p> just a bit busy but i can attend :D
<godbyk> Are we waiting for anyone else or shall we get started?
<hannie> let's start
<godbyk> c7p: Is there an agenda for this meeting?
<CarstenG> Hi moez
<moez> hi
<c7p> nope
<c7p> just we'll meet each other and answer any questions
<c7p> then we can talk for anything bothers us :D
<hannie> godbyk, perhaps we can begin by asking new contributors to introduce themselves?
<godbyk> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Aug 26 19:05:22 2012 UTC.  The chair is godbyk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<godbyk> #topic Introductions
<c7p> first say hello if you attend the meeting :)
<godbyk> Welcome, everyone, to the Ubuntu Manual project!
<hannie> hello
<CarstenG> hello
<Guest91492> Hello
<moez> hello
<godbyk> Thanks for coming, everyone!
<ajmontag> hello
<godbyk> As you probably know by now, the Ubuntu Manual Project works on the Ubuntu manual _Getting Started with Ubuntu_.
<godbyk> We publish a new manual every six months (ostensibly).
<hannie> hey CrustyBarnacle
<godbyk> We have a number of authors, editors, translators, and others who work on the manual.
<godbyk> Without your help, the manual wouldn't exist!
<CrustyBarnacle> Howdy Hannie!
<CarstenG> Welcome back nautu
<nautu> hi
<godbyk> In this meeting, we'll meet some of our new team members.
<godbyk> And those of us who have been here for a while can help answer any questions.
<CrustyBarnacle> Howdy godbyk
<godbyk> Hello, CrustyBarnacle.
<godbyk> Who here is new?
<Guest91492> I'm new
<moez> me too
<godbyk> Great! Thanks for coming, Guest91492 and moez.
<godbyk> Would you like to introduce yourselves?  What is your background and what parts of the manual are you working on?
 * patrickdickey always late to the party...  Hello everyone. :D
<hannie> hi patrickdickey
<Guest91492> Sure. My name is Mike Romard. I've been an Ubuntu user off and on for about 6 years. I've been working as a technical writer for about two years, and this project would be good for me to give back to the community. I'll be working on the "Getting Online" section.
 * CarstenG hopes you slept well, Patrick :-)
<patrickdickey> For about 3 or 4 hours. ;-)
 * patrickdickey is going to nap before work.
<c7p> nice to meet you mike
<patrickdickey> Nice to meet you Mike.
<godbyk> Thanks, Mike. We're glad to have you!
<Guest91492> Nice to meet you all as well.
<godbyk> moez?
<moez> i'm Moez Bouhlel, and ubuntu user since last year. and, i'm not editor but just begin by translating en-fr. but, i'm looking for helping to reporting bugs and may working on any section in future
<patrickdickey> Nice to meet you also Moez.
<c7p> nice !
<nautu> I'm Nora, I have been using Ubuntu since 2010, I decided to become a translator
<godbyk> Thanks for your help, Moez!
<moez> :)
<CarstenG> Great Nora, translation is always good. :-)
<CarstenG> Which language do you use?
<nautu> Spanish
<patrickdickey> Hi Nora. Nice to meet you too.
<nautu> nice to meet you all too
<godbyk> Hi, Nora. Spanish is one of our most-requested translations. So if we get the manual translated into Spanish, you'll make a lot of people happy!
<hannie> welcome nautu
<godbyk> Why don't we have some of our returning team members introduce themselves as well.
<godbyk> That way our newer members will have an idea of who to go to for help if they encounter problems or have questions.
<nautu> I have one person who really needs the translation
<patrickdickey> I'm Patrick Dickey, and I've been an Ubuntu user off and on for about 4 years (completely switched over about 2 years ago). I've been helping with the project for about two or three versions now, and am mainly doing the Advanced Topics section.
<godbyk> c7p, CarstenG, CrustyBarnacle, hannie, patrickdickey, thorwil.. c'mon, jump in here.
<hannie> ok, I will say something about myself
<hannie> I am a translator (en-nl) and I work for the manual as an author/editor too
<godbyk> My name is Kevin Godby. I started with the project at the beginning of 2010 and initially worked on the book design and LaTeX code. So if anyone has any LaTeX questions or problems, I'm the guy to pester. :)
 * patrickdickey ^^^^  And we've been pestering him a lot this weekend.
<CrustyBarnacle> Mario "CrustyBarnacle" - Editor/Author "Installing", and Author on some parts of "Troubleshooting". Technical Writer in a previous career. I frequently pester Godbyk on LaTex code questions.
<ajmontag> Hello all, I am a returning member of the team. Last release I worked on the Ubuntu One section. This release I will continue to maintain that, while also working on the instant messaging section. I have been using Ubuntu for about 2 years now. I am an undergraduate student studying Computer Engineering in the US.
<ajmontag> godbyk is the one who convinced me to join the team :P
<CarstenG> Ok, my name is Carsten, come from Germany. I use Linux since 2003 and Ubuntu since 7.10? I do some german translation, have some experience with LaTeX , too, and try for this release the job as screenshot editor.
<patrickdickey> ajmontag, are you studying at Iowa State also?
<godbyk> #topic Q&A
<godbyk> At this point, I'll open it up for questions.
<c7p> Hello, my name is John, i'm using Ubuntu since 7.10. I started working on the project as a Greek translator. Now i'm the autor coordinator trying to ensure that everthing goes right during authoring phase. I do also whatever is neccessary for the project
<godbyk> If you have any questions about the project, your role, or anything else, feel free to ask.
<ajmontag> yes, I study at Iowa State. I work with Kevin irl.
<CrustyBarnacle> During last cycle, we had looked at redoing the Troubleshooting chapter.... Is this the time to look into that?
<patrickdickey> Has Canonical released the beta 1 yet? I've got the alpha image downloaded, but haven't had a chance to check lately.
<hannie> I want to add that c7p and I are the coordinators for authors/editors/translators
<patrickdickey> I'm just down the road from both you and godbyk, ajmontag. I'm in the Quad Cities area (Muscatine).
<c7p> patrickdickey: here is the release schedule https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<nautu> how soon do you think the spanish can be released?
<c7p> nautu: it depends to 2 factors.
<nautu> can you figure out a possible date?
<CarstenG> When you are ready with translation, Nora
<CarstenG> :-)
<CarstenG> And captured all schreenshots
<nautu> I have already started
<c7p> 1st by when your translation is 100% completed
<godbyk> I've added the manual project's 12.10 milestones to Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/quantal
<c7p> 2nd by when the Spanish editor, you can be that one if there is nobody in charge, will put the finishing touches
<CarstenG> The publishing of translated versions depends only on the local team, there is no fixed dead line.
<nautu> thing is im using launpad.net to translate
<hannie> most translation teams prefer to translate only the LTS versions
<nautu> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/precise/+pots/ubuntu-manual/es/+translate?field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&memo=80&show=untranslated&start=80
<CarstenG> Yes, thatâs the normal way
<CrustyBarnacle> Schedule looks good to me. Do we still need Screenshot editor/s ?
<patrickdickey> I would say the more the merrier (Screenshot editors).
<nautu> Is LTS latest?
<hannie> CarstenG, is there another screenshot editor, apart from you?
 * patrickdickey needs to sit down in the next two days and get his virtual machine configured for Quantal.
<hannie> nautu, precise pangoline 12.04, yes
<CarstenG> Well, I think, John wanted to try it
<CarstenG> After he got his VM to work.
<CarstenG> :-)
<c7p> nope :D, i did some screenshots in the previous release
<CarstenG> Sorry, I mean Patrick
<CarstenG> :-)
<c7p> i don't think i'll have even more time to spare on the project
<c7p> no problem :)
<patrickdickey> I'll get mine set up by Tuesday, and take a couple of screenshots. Then I'll send them to either Carsten or c7p to make sure they look right.
<hannie> ah, ok, so you and Patrick will do it. that would be marvellous.
<patrickdickey> Yep. If CrustyBarnacle wants to help out, that would be great too.
<CrustyBarnacle> Can do :-) - Just let me know what chapters/sections you need me to work on.
<CarstenG> H TonyP
<CarstenG> Hi :-)
<patrickdickey> Hey TonyP.
<TonyP> Hi  all, sorry I'm a bit late
<hannie> TonyP, old or new?
<patrickdickey> So it looks like this weekend is the UserInterfaceFreeze/Beta1 deadline. So we should definitely be able to start everything then (if we haven't already).
<patrickdickey> this coming *
<c7p> are there any other questions on this topic ?
<hannie> not me
<patrickdickey> I'm good too.
<CrustyBarnacle> Done
<c7p> we can either adjourn the meeting or talk for any other topic you want
<patrickdickey> natu, TonyP, moez, do you have any other questions?
<nautu> no
<TonyP> Not at the moment, thanks
<hannie> I have to go, guys, I will read the minutes later
<patrickdickey> Bye hannie. Nice to meet you also (since I don't think we've chatted per se).
<CarstenG> Ok, see you Hannie, good night.
<c7p> see you hannie
<hannie> bye all
<Guest91492> Bye, hannie
<c7p> nobody talks so i guess we are finished
<nautu> bye all
<patrickdickey> I'll be hanging around for a bit, if anyone has any questions.
<c7p> thank you all for coming especially the freshmen !
<patrickdickey> Adios natu.
<moez> i have an question, in this page ( https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/precise-e2/+pots/ubuntu-manual/fr/+translate?show=untranslated&memo=1370&start=1370 ) i don't find "sava& continue" button and no "First â¢ Previous â¢ Next â¢ Last" links on top. who have any idea?
<nautu> chau is more argentine
<CarstenG> See you Nora, good luck with the translation.
<ajmontag> bye all
<nautu> ta
<Guest91492> Bye all. It was nice to meet you.
<CarstenG> Moez, scroll to the right
<nautu> the save ... at the bottom
<c7p> moez: does this work https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/precise-e2/+pots/ubuntu-manual/fr/+translate?start=0&batch=10&show=untranslated&field.alternative_language=&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&old_show=all ?
<nautu> on your right
<patrickdickey> moez, are they at the bottom? That's where I see them.
<CarstenG> There is a loooong translator hint that enlages the screen
<CrustyBarnacle> nautu: Hasta la vista
<godbyk> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Aug 26 19:49:36 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-08-26-19.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-08-26-19.05.html
<nautu> hasta la vista baby ;)
<nautu> moez is right i cant see the save and continue button
<patrickdickey> I only see it on the bottom, when I scroll all the way to the right.
<moez> c7p: i have this problem only with this page not others
 * patrickdickey is thinking it's because there's a really long string, and the page has a set width to it.
<godbyk> moez: It looks like it's in reviewer mode instead of translator mode.
<godbyk> At the top of the page, do you see 'Reviewer mode' in green text?
<godbyk> Click the 'What's this?' link to get more info about it.
<c7p> i think godbyk is right
<CarstenG> Moez, the problem is string 1810, there is a long string without linebreak, see https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/precise-e2/+pots/ubuntu-manual/fr/1810/+translate
<godbyk> (All of that is just a guess on my part.  Other guesses: You may need to be a member of the French translation team to translate that text.)
<c7p> i got to go, thank you all for coming see you !
<godbyk> c7p: Thanks!
<godbyk> moez: Ah, yes. CarstenG is correct.
<CarstenG> See you John
<godbyk> moez: If you scroll all the way to the right, you can see the Save & Continue button at the bottom of the page.
<godbyk> Good catch, CarstenG!
<moez> godbyk: yeh true, thanks
<CarstenG> Looks like a big in Launchpad?
<CarstenG> a BUG, I mean :-)
<godbyk> CarstenG: Yeah.. something they should fix.
<godbyk> The comment to the translators doesn't wrap, apparently.
<godbyk> I just finished pushing precise-e2 changes to the quantal branch.
<godbyk> I hope I didn't overwrite anyone's quantal changes.
<nautu> well see you all soon have a nice Sunday, adieu ;)
<moez> bye :)
<CarstenG> ok, I will have a look for a bug report for that wrap issue in the next days.
<CarstenG> Well, on quantal are only you, hannie and me working until now. :-)
<patrickdickey> godbyk the warning on the Author's page looks good. I'll copy it over to the new site in the morning.
<godbyk> patrickdickey: 'kay. thanks!
<patrickdickey> I'm off for a bit. Have a great night everyone. :)
<um-test> hello
<CarstenG> Ok, see you. Good night.
#ubuntu-manual 2013-08-20
 * slickymaster is away: I'm busy
 * slickymaster is away: [Got to work]
 * slickymaster is away: Got to work>
 * slickymaster is away: <Got to work>
 * slickymaster is away: Got to work
#ubuntu-manual 2013-08-24
<schlopo> quit
<schlopo> Greetings...anyone here yet?
<cqfd93> Hi!
<schlopo> Hey Sylvie!
<schlopo> mornin' (or afternoon..or evening), Hannie
<hannie> hey, schlopo how are you doing?
<cqfd93> Good evening, Hannie!
<hannie> hi everyone
<schlopo> Very well. Good to see a few people arrive early...it means I did the UTC time conversion correctly!
<hannie> let's hope the others are right on time :)
<cqfd93> schlopo, you can have the Ubuntu clock display UTC time along with your local time
<schlopo> shhhh....I'm on Windows8, not Ubuntu. :)
<hannie> You're joking...
<schlopo> I'm not.  I run all Ubuntu variants in a virtual machine.  Must have a Windows product for my financing software.
 * schlopo guesses I could do the reverse...Ubuntu as my main system and run W8 in a virtual machine.
<hannie> Don't you use multi-boot?
<hannie> I have Windows on one hardrive, ubuntu on another
<hannie> Works fine
<schlopo> Food for thought for sure.
<cqfd93> I'm glad I don't have windows8 ;-)
<hannie> As long as you do not have Windows 8
<godbyk> Hey, guys. Sorry I'm late.
<hannie> Wait until you buy your next computer :(
<cqfd93> Hi Kevin!
<schlopo> The way software is heading, it's all going to be in the cloud soon (a la Adobe and Photoshop)....
<schlopo> ...just need a browser and that's it.
<hannie> hi godbyk
<schlopo> Hey Kevin!
<cqfd93> I buy computers without OS
<schlopo> ...we'll wait a few more minutes, then get started.
<schlopo> I, personally, need to hold to the 1hr limit do to other obligations today.
<hannie> Yes, I am expecting Jim to join too
<CarstenG> Hi at all
<cqfd93> Hi All!
<hannie> hi CarstenG
<schlopo> CG's in the house....good to see you.
<hannie> schlopo, we should be finished before 20:00 UTC
<CarstenG> hi schlopo :-)
<schlopo> ...ok, let's get going...give me a few seconds to get meetingology set up.
<schlopo> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Aug 24 19:07:12 2013 UTC.  The chair is schlopo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<schlopo> #chair schlopo
<meetingology> Current chairs: schlopo
<schlopo> #meetingtopic Authors and Editions meeting #2 for Ubuntu 13.10
<schlopo> Alright, we're live. Please announce for the purposes of minutes and attendance.
<schlopo> Heree
<hannie> I'm present ;)
<CarstenG> here
<cqfd93> here!
<godbyk> I'm here.
<schlopo> #topic Upcoming Schedule/Due Dates
<schlopo> Looks like September 19th, 2013 is our next due date. Any issues with this date? Concerns?
<hannie> Well, not all chapters have authors, but we won't get any before sept 19th I guess
<hannie> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApS28NMLnYJXdEdGQjRtUWtaOUZxREVzUldSOU5kc2c#gid=0
<hannie> I personally am not too concerned about it
<hannie> Raring and Saucy do not differ that much
<schlopo> there are a few holes in the desktop chapter, but if you're not concerned, I'm not either.
<hannie> I think we have to go through the chapters without authors to see if they need some changes
<schlopo> I see that a column has been added to the spreadsheet indicating the status of a section from the author's perspective. Good call.
<hannie> Yes, I did that
<hannie> I want to be able to see if an author has finished
<schlopo> Very helpful. I'll update my sections' status (stati? statum?) by tomorrow evening.
<hannie> And editors status too, but that comes later
<godbyk> hannie: Good idea. That'll work well with our new \status command.
<CarstenG> hannie: Is it useful, to say Â»finishedÂ« before the feature Freeze?
<godbyk> hannie: I'll see if I can generate a list of those statuses for you this weekend.
<hannie> CarstenG, yes, there could still be changes, but not mayor ones
<CarstenG> ok
<schlopo> godbyk: assuming others have been using it (guess retrieving these statuses from the lastest rev will answer that question)
<hannie> It is up to the author to bring in last changes
<godbyk> schlopo: True. From watching the commits it looks like a lot of people have been updating them.
<godbyk> schlopo: But we also have the date they were updated, so we will know when they haven't been keeping up to date.
<schlopo> godbyk: Great!
<schlopo> Any other input/concerns regarding upcoming due dates?
<hannie> Well, like I said before, the line between authoring and editing becomes very thin. Some proofreading and editing has been done already
<schlopo> Yea, it's going to definitely blend, especially since we've improved on our author<->editor connections this iteration.
<schlopo> I think Kevin pulling a status report (and maybe emailing it to the list?) will be helpful in seeing who has yet to touch their section.
<schlopo> ...and also which authors-editors are way ahead of the game.
<hannie> schlopo, has thomas stopped contributing completely, or will he continue doing wine?
<schlopo> Not sure about thomas...
<schlopo> got an email from him saying he wanted to drop out of authoring, but still wanted to write a Wine section?
<hannie> Ok. The wine section does not need to be changed because it has nothing to do with saucy anyway
<schlopo> Almost sounds like he wants to do that exclusive to the manual.
<godbyk> I think Thomas is interested in creating an entire manual just for Wine.
<schlopo> I removed him from his assigned sections and assigned myself to them.
<godbyk> I'm not sure if he's still going to work on the Wine section in our manual or not.
<schlopo> godbyk: I'll take a look at it.
<hannie> yes, so I understand. But I do not know if he still maintains our wine section
<schlopo> Wine is under Advanced Topics. I'll own it.
<hannie> ok, so that is solved then
<schlopo> #action schlopo to verify contents of Wine section with the departure of Thomas
<meetingology> ACTION: schlopo to verify contents of Wine section with the departure of Thomas
<schlopo> #topic Communication with authors
<hannie> CarstenG, can we already start making screenshots?
<hannie> schlopo, sorry, that was not on the agenda...
<CarstenG> hannie: Well, I would not before UI freeze on 19th September
<hannie> ok
<schlopo> No worries... :)
<schlopo> Re: author communication, I intend to send out communication to all authors reminding them of the upcoming due dates. Again, will be helpful to have Kevin's data pulled from section statuses.
<schlopo> I'm going to target (with a direct email) those who've not shown any activity.
<godbyk> schlopo: I'll get that to you this weekend.
<schlopo> ...the intent being to not hit the September 19th deadline with sections undone.
<schlopo> godbyk: thanks...
<schlopo> #action godbyk to prove results of section statuses to Ubuntu Manual coordinators
<meetingology> ACTION: godbyk to prove results of section statuses to Ubuntu Manual coordinators
<schlopo> #action schlopo to communicate deadline through mailing list to all authors, and target those who've shown no activity in their sections.
<meetingology> ACTION: schlopo to communicate deadline through mailing list to all authors, and target those who've shown no activity in their sections.
<schlopo> #topic Open Q & A
<hannie> thanks in advance for the list, godbyk
<godbyk> hannie: No problem. That's what the \status command is for. :)
<schlopo> Alright...the floor's open...any issues/concerns we can tackle?
<hannie> schlopo, do you mind if I move the email addresses from the spreadsheet to a separate sheet?
<hannie> I already did, but I left yours where they were
<schlopo> hannie: sure.
<hannie> And do we need permission to put somebody's address on the sheet?
<godbyk> I would avoid putting their addresses in the sheet since it's public.
<godbyk> If it were restricted to fewer people, I wouldn't have a problem with it, though.
<hannie> But they are there already, should we remove them and publish them in a sheet that is not public?
<CarstenG> btw, why do we have the email addresses there? We all are at LP and on the Mailinglist.
<hannie> So you want me to remove them completely?
<schlopo> CarstenG: The mailing list can get noisy.
<godbyk> CarstenG: I think they were just added there out of convenience. It makes it easy to copy and paste when you need to email a particular chapter's author or all the authors.
<CarstenG> Well, if someone wants to contact someone else, he find the email address on LP or on the list (if that one has already written to the list)
<hannie> CarstenG, you need to know a person's LP name
<hannie> which is often a nick
<schlopo> Yea, let's just put the LP username. They can take this name to LP and find the address.  A few extra steps is all.
<CarstenG> This you see in the commit messages on bzr :-)
<godbyk> CarstenG: Unless you want to email someone who hasn't been committing. ;-)
<hannie> So we should add the LP names to the spreadsheet and remove the email addresses?
<CarstenG> godbyk: Yes, you are right. :-) But do we have authors, who did not yet made a bzr commit?
<schlopo> hannie: Yes
<CarstenG> hannie: Yes, this sound better to me :-)
<hannie> Ok, I can do it if you like
<schlopo> Are you willing to do this, hannie?
<hannie> ok
<godbyk> I think that's a good solution.
<godbyk> It makes it more difficult for spammers to harvest the email addresses.
<schlopo> #action hannie to remove author/editor email addresses from the shared spreadsheet and replace with LaunchPad usernames/nicks
<meetingology> ACTION: hannie to remove author/editor email addresses from the shared spreadsheet and replace with LaunchPad usernames/nicks
<CarstenG> btw, can someone find the google document without having the specific link?
<hannie> that's a good question. I think not.
<hannie> Share options: everone who has the link...
<schlopo> The link to the spreadsheet is in the NOTES section of the ubuntu-manual wiki, so, in terms of availability, it's easy to find.
<hannie> is allowed to make changes to the spreadsheet
<godbyk> Well, I have it organized in my Ubuntu Manual folder on Google Drive.
<godbyk> But we can also add a link to the style guide if it'd be helpful.
<schlopo> godbyk: ...also, in the NOTES section on the ubuntu-manual wiki
<schlopo> I've added quite a bit information to this section as I (personally) was getting tired of filtering through old emails for how-tos, style guides, installation/customization instructions, etc.
<hannie> Is it wise to make the link public (put it on the wiki)?
<godbyk> I'm slowly trying to add all this info to the style guide so it can be the first place to check.
<hannie> When we only spread it via our mailing list it will be available only to members of UMP
<schlopo> The way I see it, if it's emailed (in a list or not), it's public.
<godbyk> schlopo: Agreed. The mailing list has public archives.
<hannie> The mailing list is only for members
<schlopo> godbyk: I DEFINITELY would like to consolidate this information...maybe make a manual for the manual ?!
<godbyk> schlopo: Yeah, that's essentially what the style guide is.
<CarstenG> hannie: the list is for members, but the archive is public
<hannie> ah, yes, public archives. You are right.
<hannie> Would it be better to change the spreadsheet's share options so only members can change it?
<schlopo> hannie: this doesn't solve the "privacy" concern, but it does prevent someone from going in and wiping away all the data.
<schlopo> ...but then, it turns into a management concern (adding / removing members)
<hannie> I am more concerned about the privacy then the risk of someone deleting the contents. I have a copy on my pc
<hannie> *than
<schlopo> hannie: true
<CarstenG> btw, why do we have this informations on a google shreadsheet? We also can do it on the wiki, or?
<hannie> The wiki needs a lot of manual formatting
<CarstenG> spreadsheet...
<hannie> The spreadsheet is much easier to use
<schlopo> hannie, are you planning to call an editor's meeting in the future? Is there a need to rally your base in this regard?
<hannie> Well, I am not a meeting tiger :)
<godbyk> I'd suggest having an editors meeting closer to the authoring deadline.
 * schlopo isn't either
<godbyk> Just to make sure we didn't lose any editors and that they're ready to start editing.
<hannie> If not necessary, I will not plan one. I prefer to use our ml
<hannie> I do send editors a pm
<godbyk> hannie: Good thinking.
<hannie> And I try to keep in touch by email
<hannie> But like with authors, there will be chapters without editors too
<hannie> there are not too many gaps though. I am quite happy with the editors we have right now
 * schlopo notes we have 10 minutes left.
<hannie> I want to ask authors to reduce the number of marginnotes (if you all agree, that is)
 * schlopo wonders if Sylvie dropped off the face of the IRC map.
<schlopo> YES!
<schlopo> ABSOLUTELY!
<hannie> We have already discussed it in the past. I prefer to see text on the page itself
<schlopo> THANK YOU!
 * schlopo is excited at this suggestion (in case there be any doubt)
<godbyk> I agree with that sentiment.
<godbyk> The margin notes should be for optional material only. Short asides.
<godbyk> They especially shouldn't be lengthy paragraphs.
<schlopo> ...and also screenshots in the marginnotes! I think this is a bad idea.
<CarstenG> hannie: You are right. It is also less work to move the marginnotes in the translations to the right place.
<hannie> schlopo, shall I send an email to our ml about this?
<schlopo> marginnotes should extend a concept...not explain a new one. Many notes I've come across are paragraphs in and of themselves.
<godbyk> (Aside from the style issue, I usually have to finesse the position of the margin notes a bit before publication. So fewer margin notes would mean less work for me. :-))
<schlopo> godbyk: You're welcome!
<CarstenG> godbyk: Yes, this point I mean :-)
<hannie> So we agree: the less marginnotes the better
<godbyk> As far as screenshots in the margins... the only screenshots that should be in the margin are ones that are naturally small enough to fit there.
<hannie> cqfd93, where are you? Hiding somewhere?
<schlopo> hannie: yes, if you'd do that, I believe the UMP world would be in harmony.
<godbyk> (Otherwise it looks awkward to have a tiny screenshot surrounded by inches of white space.)
<CarstenG> yes, programm icons are IMHO ok in marginnotes.
<cqfd93> I'm here, reading :-)
<schlopo> CarstenG: alright...I've give in on this one!
<schlopo> cqfd93: Good! :)
<hannie> cqfd93, sorry for not asking you too about the screenshots
<cqfd93> I just don't have much to say!
<hannie> np
<hannie> No translation questions?
<cqfd93> I agree we have to wait until the UI freeze
<hannie> good
<schlopo> #action hannie to send an email to the mailing list about reducing the number of margin notes and avoiding screenshots (except icons where necessary).
<meetingology> ACTION: hannie to send an email to the mailing list about reducing the number of margin notes and avoiding screenshots (except icons where necessary).
<cqfd93> small screenshots like menus are ok in marginnotes
<schlopo> I think we need to start now (on a non LTS release) to whittle down the marginnotes, so that the upcoming LTS release yields a much cleaner manual.
<hannie> During the final phase we will go through the whole document to see if we can minimise margin notes (chapters without author/editor)
<hannie> Is it minimise in US and minimize in GB?
<schlopo> hannie: Yes.  With a Z in the US.
<hannie> thanks
<schlopo> Center vs Centre
<schlopo> Utilise vs Utilize
<schlopo> oy vey!
<godbyk> Hooked on Phonics worked for us!  ;-)
<hannie> I should stick to the agenda, I am a bit naughty
<godbyk> Btw, speaking of translations, you guys are filling up my bookshelf pretty quickly: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5067756/IMG_20130824_145634.jpg
<hannie> WOW! That looks pretty impressive
<schlopo> Ya' know, Kevin, THAT is just a beautiful picture!
<schlopo> A lot of volunteer person-hours represented there.
<cqfd93> wow!
<CarstenG> godbyk: Very nice. :-)
<schlopo> A true testament to a geographically diverse community coming together to accomplish a task.
<godbyk> And those are just from the past year. I don't have back copies of all the previous manuals.
<CarstenG> Would be good for the website :-)
<schlopo> CarstenG: +1
<godbyk> I'll try to take a better photo without the glare of the flash sometime.
<CarstenG> godbyk: And did you read all the books? ;-)
<hannie> ok, and put it on the website
<godbyk> Does anyone think it'd be worth it to move the older versions of the manual from lulu.com to createspace.com/amazon.com?
<godbyk> Or should we just leave them there?
<cqfd93> godbyk: I don't see the French version for 12.10...
<godbyk> I haven't checked, but I doubt that many people are buying the older versions.
<godbyk> cqfd93: Yeah, I missed that one. I'll have to order it next. :-)
<cqfd93> ;-)
<schlopo> Alright...on this VERY motivating note (thanks to our fearless leader)...are there any other issues?
<hannie> I would not move them to createspace, except of course 12.04
<godbyk> hannie: I think all the 12.04 are on CreateSpace except for the English edition. I'll double-check.
<hannie> excellent
<schlopo> Ok...so this will be the last author's meeting I'll chair. I'll punt now to hannie to coordinate any editor communication (which I, too, will join).
<godbyk> schlopo: Thanks for your help with coordinating the authors.
<hannie> Thanks for handing it over to me, schlopo ;)
<schlopo> Thanks for being here! I'll post the logs of this meeting to the wiki and tackle most (if not all) my action items by Sunday evening.
<schlopo> godbyk: My please.
<schlopo> hannie: sure thing.
<schlopo> godbyk: *pleasure.
<hannie> godbyk, +1, thanks schlopo for all you do as authors coordinator
<schlopo> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Aug 24 20:06:47 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-08-24-19.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-08-24-19.07.html
<schlopo> Bye everyone! Have a great weekend.
<godbyk> See you later, schlopo.
<cqfd93> Bye schlopo!
<hannie> bye all
<CarstenG> bye all
<cqfd93> by all!
#ubuntu-manual 2014-08-19
<daker> yo godbyk
<daker> i just saw something suspicious, you did approve
<daker> someone
<daker> this guy joined a lot of teams today https://launchpad.net/~mibtn10/+participation
#ubuntu-manual 2014-08-20
<godbyk> daker: Thanks for the heads-up! I've deactivated him from the Ubuntu Manual and website teams.
<godbyk> (I didn't intend to activate his website membership, I misread the link.)
<daker> no problem :)
#ubuntu-manual 2014-08-22
<infox> k off to website
