#ubuntu-meeting-2 2014-09-16
<slangasek> hmm, TB meeting time, is it?
<slangasek> who's chair?  last time  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/Current was updated was the last time I chaired ;)
<slangasek> ah, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda says I am
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 16 16:04:25 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<mdeslaur> hi!
<slangasek> hullo!
<infinity> *grunt*
<slangasek> stgraber: here?
 * stgraber waves
<mdeslaur> infinity: happy birthday :P
<slangasek> hey, it's some kind of quorum
<slangasek> oh, is infinity having a birthday?!
<infinity> He might be.
<slangasek> we shall have a hangout later where we can embarrass him by singing
<slangasek> or embarrass ourselves, maybe
<infinity> Dear god no.
<mdeslaur> lol :)
<stgraber> :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Apologies
<slangasek> I've been stalling for time to see if the others wander in, but no such luck
<slangasek> so kees and pitti, absent without apologies :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Action review
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<slangasek> > ACTION: infinity to review and respond to MAAS SRU thread
<slangasek> infinity: is this done?
<infinity> I'd completely forgot I had that action until about 2 minutes ago. :/
<infinity> So, no.
<pitti> hello
<pitti> sorry for being late
 * slangasek waves to pitti
<mdeslaur> they haven't responded to my email
<mdeslaur> hi pitti
<kees> \o
<infinity> Well, look at that.  Everyone's htere.
<infinity> here, too.
<slangasek> \o/
<slangasek> infinity: so this action is a carry-over?
<infinity> slangasek: *nod*
<slangasek> [ACTION] infinity to review and respond to MAAS SRU thread
<meetingology> ACTION: infinity to review and respond to MAAS SRU thread
<slangasek> so, nothing else has been added to the agenda
<slangasek> [TOPIC] mailing list topics
<slangasek> no mails in September except for the MAAS question
<slangasek> mdeslaur: you said they hadn't replied to your mail? I see the last mail in that thread is a response from Andres to you
<mdeslaur> the one that starts with "Hello Martin"?
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> sorry, hadn't checked the mail, only looked at the threading :)
<slangasek> (in the archive)
<mdeslaur> I'll ping them in case mine was overlooked
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> [TOPIC] community bugs
<slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard shows empty
<slangasek> is there any other business for today?
<slangasek> I feel like I'm not earning my keep ;)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<pitti> heh, quite many meetings are like this these days
 * kees nods
<pitti> we used to have a lot more to discuss back in the days
<slangasek> I know, and I wonder if that means we've efficiently cleared our plate or if we're just not doing our job somehow :-)
<kees> I think it means the active developer community size has shrunk
<slangasek> could be :/
<slangasek> ok, who's next on chair rotation then?
<infinity> Or they just feel they need less guidance.
<mdeslaur> or nobody is proposing anything controversial
<kees> I've always been suspicious that the changes that removed MOTU had negative effects
<infinity> slangasek: Next chair would be stgraber.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Select a chair
<slangasek> [INFO] Next chair is stgraber
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 16 16:18:27 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2014/ubuntu-meeting-2.2014-09-16-16.04.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all
<kees> thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks slangasek
<mdeslaur> thanks everyone
 * pitti waves
#ubuntu-meeting-2 2015-09-15
<mdeslaur> \o
 * slangasek waves
<pitti> hello all
<infinity> o/
 * pitti pung Stephane and Kees
<infinity> I just dropped bacon on the floor.
<infinity> This is the worst day of my life.
<slangasek> infinity: that pig's been in mud before, wash it off and get on with it
<pitti> lol
 * pitti catches up with the mail replies in the meantime
<infinity> Oh, right, we have a mailing list.
<infinity> pitti: Hrm.  I had some points to make about your SRU proposal(s) a week or so ago but, of course, didn't mail them in, and am now to scatterbrained to recall. :P
<slangasek> pitti: just sent another reply, two minutes after the meeting start time
<pitti> stgraber: salut
<stgraber> hey pitti
<pitti> slangasek: ah, good call; should be kind of obvious, but explicit is better
<pitti> ok, let's start
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 15 16:05:32 2015 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pitti> #topic action review
 * pitti taps foot for meetbot
<pitti> ACTION: slangasek to forward complaint to Canonical legal
<pitti> as this has been quiet for so long, is this still actually relevant?
<slangasek> well
<slangasek> feel free to drop it from the carry-over actions so we don't have to keep spending time discussing the non-action?
<pitti> ok; let's just silently bury that then :)
<slangasek> I think it should still be done but obviously it's not the top of my priority list for the reason you say
<pitti> ACTION: slangasek to document maas, juju, docker exceptions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Special_Cases
<slangasek> carry over :/
<pitti> this might actually get better resolved (or resolved by itself) after the changing of the policy?
<slangasek> I don't think so
<infinity> I would hope not.
<infinity> If the policy becomes so open that what the maas team does is "okay" without an exception, I think we've gone too far in the free for all direction.
<mdeslaur> those aren't "micro" :P
<slangasek> they're exceptions to the policy on updating existing features, and I don't think are covered by the proposed changes to policy?
<pitti> TBH, I don't know how "special" these are; I was hoping that with the generalization, allowing new features and generally allowing new microreleases this would be covered
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> ACTION: Everyone to review pitti's SRU policy ammendments and +1/-1 on-list
<pitti> we got feedback from mdeslaur for the first one, and from slangasek and stgraber for the second patch
<infinity> pitti: Can we carry that for another cycle, if you're not in a rush to commit?  I want to re-read, and read some IRC backscroll I had with ScottK and rebut a bit.
<pitti> not sure if we interpret that as silent consent from the others now?
<pitti> infinity: sure
<mdeslaur> oh, meant to +1 the second
<infinity> Obviously, if I fail to respond sanely in the next 2 weeks, assume silent approval from me due to being a derp. :P
<pitti> FWIW, I think ScottK's amendment is fine as it has been the  existing policy so far anyway
<infinity> Yeah, that wasn't the only discussion I had with Scott.  We had a long, CoC-breaking drinking session one night. :P
<mdeslaur> lol
<pitti> not sure about stgraber's addition -- the policy already states that any change must be present in the devel series first, so it woudl be redundant
<pitti> (I don't mind adding it, though)
<infinity> I need to distill that into something publicly-acceptable.
<mdeslaur> pitti: well, it's not just devel if it's a new feature
<pitti> and slangasek's addition *should* be obvious, but I also don't mind adding that as a clarification
<pitti> mdeslaur: how do you mean?
<pitti> we wouldn't introduce a new featuer *only* into an LTS without it also landing in devel?
<pitti> at least that's specifically not my intention
<infinity> pitti: If it's a new feature in 14.04, it might be missing entirely in 15.04 as well, and upgrades need to be vaguely supportable.
<mdeslaur> pitti: if it's a new feature, rather than just a bug fix, we need to have it in interim releases also
<infinity> pitti: So, it's not just about devel and stable, but devel and all supported stables in between your target and devel.
<pitti> ah, I see
<pitti> so this is not devel, it's for newer stables
<pitti> stgraber proposed "preferably", this should maybe become stronger then?
<infinity> Probably should, yes.
<pitti> i. e. "should preferably" â "must"?
<infinity> Do we properly use RFC language anywhere in that document?
<infinity> Maybe we should start.
<mdeslaur> ah, yeah, stronger would be better
<infinity> (Maybe we must start?)
<pitti> yeah, we are using "should" a lot in the current policy which ought to be a "must"
<stgraber> infinity: I think you meant "Maybe we MUST start?" :)
<pitti> ok, so I'll send a v2 of both amendments with the proposals and the above "strongification"
<infinity> A must/should/may cleanup of whatever docs we're responsible for wouldn't go amiss.
<mdeslaur> #define should must
<pitti> and I keep prodding infinity over the next two weeks :)
<infinity> #define 2 1.999999
<slangasek> #define must volatile
<pitti> ok, I think we're done with this topic :)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<pitti> no other agenda items
<stgraber> :)
<pitti> nothing new on the ML
<pitti> ah, for meetbot (if it works at all):
<infinity> It works, it just doesn't have topic permissions on this channel.
<pitti> #action pitti to update SRU policy amendment proposals and gather feedback
<meetingology> ACTION: pitti to update SRU policy amendment proposals and gather feedback
<infinity> And no one's ever bothered to fix that.
<pitti> ACTION: infinity to respond to that
<pitti> zarro community bugs
<infinity> ACTION: pitti to stop using ambiguous pronoun backreferences in actions
<pitti> next chair is slangasek, then (or fallback) stgraber, ok?
 * slangasek nods
<stgraber> fine with me
<infinity> Glad we all agree about pitti's grammar.
<infinity> (And the chair)
<pitti> ACTION: infinity to replace his grammar lambastion with something much more peaceful, like a nice round of Halo or whatnot
<infinity> pitti: :)
<pitti> c'est Ã§a, mes amis
<pitti> #topic AOB?
<slangasek> "Ã§a" - there you go with those dangling relative pronouns again
<infinity> Oh, there's one thing I wanted to get an informal "yeah, that's sane" from people before I move on it.
<infinity> At Plumbers, Kate stated that she was going to officially step down from ~ubuntu-release (I need to prod her about that) and, once she does, -release, -archive, and -sru will all be core-devs.
<pitti> slangasek: J'Ã©cris "Je suis mauvais" 100 fois..
<slangasek> infinity: yeah that's sane
<infinity> I'd like to move to boith take over ownership of those teams by the TB where that's not currently true, and document a policy that teams that confer queue permissions shouldn't give people queue permissions more elevated than their upload rights.
<slangasek> oh sorry were you still talking
 * pitti assumes that there's still some question coming?
<infinity> (So, core-dev only for those teams)
<pitti> big +1
<mdeslaur> infinity: you said "should"
<mdeslaur> yeah, +1 from me
<slangasek> +1
<infinity> The reason for the strict permission match wording, rather than explicity "must be core-devs" is that it also opens the possibility of a motu-release with universe queue permissions or whatever.
<slangasek> mdeslaur: lol
<stgraber> +1
<infinity> mdeslaur: Right, so I did.  s/should/must/ where I meant it. :P
<infinity> Okay, so thanks for the informal vote.  After I poke Kate and get her to deactivate (trying to avoid drama there by doing it myself), I'll move on the policy and owenership bits.
<pitti> nice, thanks infinity
<pitti> #action AOB, take II
<meetingology> ACTION: AOB, take II
<pitti> err, #topic, sorry
<infinity> Hahaha.
<infinity> DRUNKEN MEEEEEETING!
<pitti> #makethisend
<infinity> I think we're done. :P
<pitti> then, thanks everyone!
<stgraber> :)
<pitti> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 15 16:24:29 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2015/ubuntu-meeting-2.2015-09-15-16.05.moin.txt
<stgraber> thanks!
<slangasek> thanks, all
<mdeslaur> thanks everyone!
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda updated
