#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-28
<penguin42> feels randomly assured now he found the backup button
<penguin42> phew - it boots and has a network signal :-)
<penguin42> hmm rather touchy though; market place doesn't work and it seems to insist on trying to set up an exchange account rather than gmail
<bigcalm> Is it possible to move an already running process into a screen?
<penguin42> no
<bigcalm> Sod
<directhex> ctrl-z
<HazRPG> \o
<hamitron> hi haz
<HazRPG> hamitron: \o
<HazRPG> :D
<HazRPG> how's it going dude?
<hamitron> I still not slept
<hamitron> hehe
<HazRPG> hehe
<HazRPG> I had to, I was awake for way too long
<hamitron> my brain has only just this second felt totally mashed
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> how long you been awake?
<hamitron> 42 hours
<HazRPG> wow lol, and I thought I was bad sometimes
<HazRPG> I've done 48+ hours before, and people have called me insane lol
<HazRPG> I call it "I hate sleeping, means less hours I can be doing stuff"
<hamitron> I missed 2 nights in a row once
<hamitron> fell off my comp chair :/
<hamitron> 4pm on the 3rd day
 * HazRPG enrolls hamitron into the "sorta insomniac" group
<hamitron> but that was because I had coursework to do
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> coursework will do that :P
<HazRPG> I miss those days :P
<hamitron> I started it 5 days before the deadline
<hamitron> was supposed to spend 5 months
<hamitron> so my own fault
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> I do that all the time :P
<HazRPG> hmm, bug!
<HazRPG> apparently chrome doesn't think it's the default browser anymore
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> nn all ;)
<HazRPG> awww, you actually going to sleep now?
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> :))
<HazRPG> ...:(
<hamitron> o/
<HazRPG> night dude o/
<HazRPG> hmmm, is SixXS or HE better for IPv6?
<shauno> morning
<HazRPG> shauno: \o
<HazRPG> Have you read the e-mail about the guy with RSI troubles on the mailing list?
<shauno> yeah
<shauno> I feel like a complete zombie :/  off to mug the kettle
<HazRPG> :p
<stgraber> HazRPG: I've had great service from HE. It's reliable and they have a good network. Oh, also, they don't need you to earn points or other weird stuff like SixXS does
<HazRPG> stgraber: ah ok, cool - thanks :)
<shauno> earn points?  (only used HE, haven't used sixxs, trying to figure out how points would fit into the picture)
<stgraber> shauno: with sixxs you need to keep your tunnel online or you loose point, if you loose points you can't ask for subnets or other tunnels
<shauno> oh, fun
<shauno> I've had no problems with HE at all.  and my router supports their tunnels, so autoconf is pretty tidy for the rest of the LAN :)
<shauno> oh, I heard back on that calibre bug.  they won't change the default, but have added it to the options UI.  so \o/
<HazRPG> winner \o/
<HazRPG> I must say the developer of calibre does listen to his users really well :)
<HazRPG> he's very active on the forums!
<HazRPG> and always quick to try and add or sort things out
<shauno> well, I should get off my rear & get ready for work
<shauno> my odd sleep rotation worked out tho; waking up an hour before your alarm clock goes off is awesome :)
<shauno> alarm clock doing off at 5am .. not so awesome
<HazRPG> going*
<HazRPG> heh, I haven't heard an alarm clock in years
<HazRPG> literally
<HazRPG> even if I wanted to hear an alarm clock, I wouldn't hear it while I'm asleep
<HazRPG> (awake, I can hear them just fine)
<HazRPG> when I'm asleep, I physically can't hear them - and I don't know why!
<HazRPG> people next door (and from downstairs) can hear it - because I got a loud little beast, however I just don't... and I have no idea why
<HazRPG> suffice to say, I'm usually late... unless I plan a schedule around so that I'm still awake for the times that I need to be...
<HazRPG> e.g. if I know I need to be awake and on time for something... I have to make sure I force myself to sleep around 10-14 hours before the time I need to meet them... that way if I oversleep, I know I'll definitely be awake for it... failing that I do the whole "hmm, think I could last and stay awake till then?" question in my head
<HazRPG> heh, just posted a wall-mass of text about a guy and his kindle-related questions... I don't know how I always manage to do this, but I don't seem to be able to keep things short and to the point :/
<HazRPG> hopefully it'll be useful for him though
<shauno> heh, I noticed.  didn't manage to finish your book on RSI :p
<HazRPG> works really well for me though (the RSI thing)
<shauno> I very rarely get anything
<HazRPG> depends on your usage I guess
<HazRPG> and how your sat, positioned
<HazRPG> ah crud, I should really have mentioned that in the e-mail too
<HazRPG> ah well too late
<shauno> fairly sure someone mentioned lumbar etc in the first couple of responses
<HazRPG> hmm, I did skim through most of the posts, think I missed that one
<shauno> my seating position is so slothenly that I book holidays off work whenever we have a health & safety audit :/
<shauno> I actually got one of the security guys to help me do a weekend raid on our old building, so I could retrieve my favourite chair :D
<HazRPG> haha winner
<shauno> the security guys like us because they're not allowed to go off-site during their shifts, and we can.  so if they need food/smokes/etc, we become popular
<HazRPG> I'm catching up on the 60 or so mailing list stuff I've missed recently (been busy reading other things I guess?)
<HazRPG> hehe, I can imagine :P
<shauno> just giving them a bell to say "popping down the shop, you need anything?" earns you useful allies :)
<shauno> but generally the only thing my seated posture has going for it, is that I seem to move constantly.  I'm not sat in any position for hours on end
<shauno> and I maintain finding a new position every 15-20 minutes is more useful than sitting in the "right position" for 12 hours at a time.  there is no right way to sit for 12 hours.  we're not built like that
<shauno> it does confuse people who try to borrow my chair tho :)  it's kinda broken.  if you try to lean back, the back will go diagonally in either direction, but not straight back
<shauno> so if you try to lean back without knowing the secrets of my chair, you tend to get tipped onto the floor
<HazRPG> haha I had a chair like that at work too xD
<HazRPG> great fun to see others try and use it :)
<HazRPG> was so tempted to put "geek chair: use with precaution, prior knowledge of how to operate required"
<HazRPG> but thought my boss probably wouldn't like that :P
<HazRPG> also, agreed... there is no "right or wrong" way to sit on a chair
<HazRPG> I tend to find myself moving around a lot too
<HazRPG> usually helps to have someone I can plonk my legs up onto :)
<HazRPG> xD somewhere* I mean
<HazRPG> haha love it: How to torment a telemarketer with one word :: http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-torment-telemarketers-with-one-word
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> Good Morning everyone
<kaushal> Please guide me about http://paste.ubuntu.com/586347/
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> off to towcester today
<AlanBell> HazRPG: are you behind some nasty proxy server?
<AlanBell> sorry, kaushal: are you behind some nasty proxy server?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: ... I was going to say!
<kaushal> I have installed squid-deb-proxy-server
<AlanBell> kaushal: you are only being given the first [45B] of each file
<kaushal> ok
<AlanBell> ok, well that is the bit that is broken then :)
<kaushal> AlanBell: shall i pastebin the squid-deb-proxy.conf ?
<AlanBell> I am off out for the day now
<AlanBell> I would start by turning the proxy off and see if that helps
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> np
<daubers> Morning
<shauno> o/
<HazRPG> o/
<MooDoo> hello all
<erolci> Good morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning
<erolci> I am using Ubuntu 10.10 and I would like to reach a folder located Windows (/desktop)
<erolci> I can reach everything in windows but When I open the desktop folder,  I only see 4 unimportant files, there is no my folder in it
<erolci> What do you think ?
<BigRedS> does Windows do encryption of that sort of thing these days?
<directhex> unless you turn it off, yes
<directhex> erolci, which desktop folder? you have several
<erolci> Right
<erolci> I am using dual operating system
<HazRPG> erm... windows 7 does encrypt the user's folders now
<erolci> God
<directhex> HazRPG, only if you pay for ultimate
<HazRPG> however am I right in thinking your trying to access "my documents" "my pictures" etc?
<directhex> erolci, which folder exactly are you looking in
<HazRPG> because that would be /windows/user/<name>/My Documents
<HazRPG> (or replace with My Pictures, My Music, etc)
<erolci> hmm
<erolci> I will have a look
<HazRPG> /windows/user/<name>/Desktop/My Documents is the wrong place to be looking
<directhex> HazRPG, Users.
<directhex> also, Documents
<directhex> as of w7
<HazRPG> yeah sorry
<directhex> maybe vista too
<MartijnVdS> morning everyone
<erolci> I checked it but there is not Desktop folder
<erolci> The intresting point
<erolci> I can see everything in c drive
<erolci> Only desktop folder has this problem
<erolci> Windows is down at the moment
<HazRPG> erolci: http://ScrnSht.com/wanwic
<HazRPG> directhex: also, if you look at that screenshot... "My Documents" is still there as a thing in win7
<HazRPG> I'm pretty sure there's still one place inside windows that's inconsistent with the rest and calls it "My Documents" instead of "Documents"
<directhex> HazRPG, i wouldn't trust junction points.
<MartijnVdS> Cool.. we're going to push ipv6 even more @ work
<directhex> erolci, without you being precise in a) what you're looking for, and b) where you're looking, you're unhelpable.
<HazRPG> directhex: is that what they're called? I thought they were just called "links"
<erolci> I am looking for another folder which is located in /Desktop
<directhex> erolci, WHICH desktop?
<directhex> erolci, you have at least two desktops.
<erolci> in Windows 7
<erolci> right
<erolci> I checked the both in windows
<directhex> then you're looking in the wrong place.
<directhex> your USER desktop, for anything you copy there yourself, is in Users/username/Desktop. there's also the system desktop, which has icons etc placed by installers.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: \o/
<directhex> windows silently merges the system desktop and user desktop when showing them to you
<HazRPG> directhex: yeah I know what you mean, that's always annoyed me as a thing :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: It's going to be part of some independent "Choose an ISP" sites ('Offers IPv6 yes/no' -- we're the only 'yes' atm :))
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: did you set it up yet?
<erolci> Where is the system desktop located buddy?
<erolci> in Windows folder ?
<directhex> i think that one might be a junction point, for compatibility with windows 95 apps
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: IPv6?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I made the account :D
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: as far as I got with that :P
<shauno> slacker.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ...
<erolci> I can open the windows in Dos mode
<erolci> I will try to copy files to another folder
<erolci> I hope works
<HazRPG> shauno, MartijnVdS: ikr :(
<erolci> Thanks a lot for your helping
<HazRPG> internet too much of a distraction
<HazRPG> doesn't help I'm having a link war with my friend on mumble
<erolci> I have to go
<erolci> see you, bye
<daubers> Morning
 * DJones mutters about graphics cards in laptops & why isn't there a nice simple way of choosing one that will work nicely with ubuntu
<s-fox> Hello.
<MooDoo> s-fox: morning
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo . How are you?
<MooDoo> s-fox: congratulations as well :)
<MooDoo> i'm fine thanks
<s-fox> Congrats?
<s-fox> It is good you are okay :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: hven't you been elected to a team council?
<MooDoo> or have i got the wrong person?
<s-fox> Oh yes,  I have.
<MooDoo> then congratulations :D
<s-fox> Wednesday last week I think
<MooDoo> ah i just noticed it on the planet
<s-fox> MooDoo,  gnome-look is back up.  http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=127192  & http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=137346
<s-fox> Two of my shots I uploaded.
<MooDoo> very nice :)
<s-fox> Thank you.
<DJones> Morning all
<DJones> Can anybody see any problems that I might have with this laptop (drivers/incompatibility etc), just trying to get ideas on what to buy http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/acer-5742-core-i5-laptop-with-4gb-memory-red-laptop-08702408-pdt.html
<DJones> I'm also tempted by something with this sort of spec http://www.coopelectricalshop.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?ProductCode=ACE-COM-ASPIRE5742G-BK
<gord> DJones, looks fine to me, of course wifi is always *random dice roll* if you don't get well used chipsets. never heard of acer chipsets for wifi before
<DJones> gord: Yeah, thats always a worry, trouble is there's so many acer 5742's out there with different specs, I don't think you'd ever know which you were getting
<oimon> DJones: i noticed that - tesco have a wildly different spec
<oimon> http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.210-8467.aspx  http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.210-1936.aspx
<directhex> it's common for huge retailers to get slightly different models for electronic items
<directhex> it makes it impossible to do price comparison and "we pay the difference if it's cheaper elsewhere" deals
<JamesTait> Happy daylight savings time, everyone! :D
<oimon> DJones: ever tried dell outlet? i got a really good deal from there
<DJones> oimon: No, I've not looked there yet
<DJones> oimon: Outlet is quite interesting, Intel i7 for Â£537 with 4Gb, Radeon HD 5470 1G
<HazRPG> hmm, I have a feeling I did something wrong there...
<DJones> oimon: Not a top end i7, seems reasonable
<oimon> i used to also buy from the outlet for a cheapskate employer too - never had any problems with the machines i received from them (usually business ones)
<nperry> Hmm, gnome3 ppa has been updated within the last couple of days
<HazRPG> hmm, could someone help me out with some ipv6 setup (via HE) please :)
<HazRPG> so knew to this whole ipv6 thing :/
<HazRPG> so far every attempt has just failed
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, I meant to do that weeks ago
<HazRPG> ?
<BigRedS> (I'm no help, I'm afraid)
<BigRedS> the HE thingy on ip6
<HazRPG> ah, fair enough
<nperry> via HE?
<HazRPG> tunnelbroker.net
<HazRPG> IPv6 over IPv4 style
<HazRPG> HE stands for "Hurricane Electric" they prove IPv6 address :)
<HazRPG> BigRedS: if I get it to work, I'll post my find on my blog for ya to have a read if ya like :)
<BigRedS> HazRPG: ah, that'd be cool!
<BigRedS> An even-shorter-than-the-short-intro-thing to ip6! :)
<HazRPG> indeed :)
<HazRPG> guessing your using a router that's non-ipv6 compliant yet too?
<HazRPG> I'm rolling with 10.10 at the moment, but I can test stuff on others too if need be before I post it up
<dogmatic69> what would be the best way to limit ssh to a single ip address? looking at some google links, seems like about 100 different ways to do it
<shauno> either ufw/iptables, or just hosts.deny/allow
<dogmatic69> k
<dogmatic69> in iptables do i need to set something up so that it happens after a reboot?
<dogmatic69> or setting it once will always be set?
<nigelb> Yeah, you need to setup a script so that it always runs on reboot
<dogmatic69> iptables -I INPUT -s <IP> -p tcp -m tcp --dport 22 -j ACCEPT
<dogmatic69> iptables -I INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 22 -j REJECT
<dogmatic69> look right?
<JamesTait> dogmatic69: You might already know about this, but ufw can do this and has the advantage of retaining its setup across reboot.
<dogmatic69> JamesTait: i dont, will look that up
<Mez> dogmatic69: looks wrong... Why not just set policy as REJECT, adn then add accept rules?
<dogmatic69> Mez: dont know, just found that on server fault :/
<Mez> dogmatic69: as you're a local... gimme a moment, I'll find you a very good article :D
<Mez> (aka the firewall article I wrong for LXF)
<Mez> http://www.linuxformat.com/includes/download.php?PDF=LXF121.tut_adv.pdf
<dogmatic69> \o/
<HazRPG> BigRedS: just out of interest dude, you planning on having IPv6 on one computer or setup like a DHCP for IPv6?
<shauno> I love ufw.  the rules are actually readable.  'sudo ufw allow from <IP> app OpenSSH'
<BigRedS> HazRPG: just one computer, I want to set it up on my dedicated box
<HazRPG> because ideally I'd like to setup a DHCP for IPv6... however if I at least get it working on only one machine that would be great too - but if your also interested in setting up via multiple, might try my best to get it to run on multiple
<BigRedS> I don't even use DHCP on ip4 really
<HazRPG> BigRedS: technically your router does though :P
<shauno> I don't use dhcp on v6.  just let autoconf do it
<BigRedS> well, I do on other people's networks, but I've not been near a dhcp server for a while, quite intentionally :)
<HazRPG> ah cool
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm really? I thought that was what the screenshot was doing?
<BigRedS> and, yeah, there's a built-in-to-ip6 thing that you should be doing instead of dhcp
<BigRedS> in fact, that's probably what you are doing, thinking about it :)
<shauno> that's just a tunnel endpoint
<shauno> anything joining the network just autodiscovers it's own address as lan address + mac address
<shauno> get some well ugly IPs that way, but zero hassle :)
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, but isn't that DHCP essentially? I'm guessing you don't need to do anything fancy on your phone to get ipv6 for it?
<HazRPG> after its setup on the router I mean
<HazRPG> (I know what I mean in my head :S)
<shauno> it's part of the protocol; they just find the lan address via neighbour discovery
<BigRedS> HazRPG: same effect as DHCP, but utterly different method
<shauno> you can do dhcpv6 if you really want/need to, but autoconf is built into the protocol now
<HazRPG> BigRedS: yeah, but I think they're still calling it DHCPv6 despite it only being similar in concept (sorta)
<HazRPG> shauno: oh?
<HazRPG> (getting more confused the more I read)
<BigRedS> yeah, that was my understanding - two mechanisms to achieve the same thing, both occasionally called dhcpv6 :)
<BigRedS> that's the lovely thing about standards...
<shauno> I believe dhcpv6 still exists very similar to dhcp, for people who need utter control over that kinda thing
<shauno> eg, at home I have v4 set so I get IPs 10.0.0.1xx, next door get 10.0.0.2xx, etc.  autoconf isn't that tidy
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> if you don't need that much control, just let autoconf make fantastically ugly IPs
<HazRPG> see the ways I keep seeing, essentially just let HE pick the IP's
<HazRPG> so I'm assuming that's the "ugly IP" way?
<HazRPG> so far all different ways of setting this up, basically say do this on every machine... or setup a DHCPv6 (endpoint for the tunnel) server, however each requesting machine that asks for an IP still goes out to HE and grabs an IP from them and brings it back to the requesting machine
<HazRPG> they don't actually show you how to specify a range
<shauno> well if you're just doing it straight on your machine, you'll most likely get the LAN address they gave you with ::2 as the end
<HazRPG> yeah I am doing this straight on my machine, although I would like to setup my phone, and other PC's/laptops/netbook/etc to use it too
<HazRPG> hopefully with the least amount of faffing around :P
<shauno> 2001:ba8:1f1:f1a5::2   like this is my vps's address
<shauno> 2001:ba8:1f1:f1a5 is 'my' network, and ::2 because I'm the only host on it (and can't use ::1)
<HazRPG> hang on I'll link you to ubuntu's way of doing the DHCP tunnel broker way of doing things, if you've got a moment :)
<HazRPG> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IPv6#Configure your Ubuntu box as a IPv6 router
<BigRedS> tsk. spaces in urls
<HazRPG> BigRedS: blame the person who made the wiki, that was the link straight via "copy url"
<directhex> HazRPG, blame chromium for not replacing spaces with %20 in copied urls
<HazRPG> that too
<HazRPG> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IPv6#Configure%20your%20Ubuntu%20box%20as%20a%20IPv6%20router
<HazRPG> good thing I know most commonly used replacements
<BigRedS> HazRPG: Oh I do
<HazRPG> BigRedS: didn't say you didn't :P
<X3N> ping popey
<bigcalm> Must we?
<BigRedS> I've just downloaded an Android telnet client
<BigRedS> this feels quite anachronistic
<shauno> never heard of radvd, but that describes what my router's doing
<popey> X3N: pong
<HazRPG> shauno: ah so we were both on the same page then :)
<X3N> getting nagois alerts for ssh on the ubuntu-uk box,
<popey> yup
<popey> its apache still OOMing
<popey> well, apache eating RAM and the kernel OOMing
 * shauno shakes fist at apache
 * popey shakes fist at PHP
<X3N> is lighttpd going to be deployed?
<popey> last time I suggested that, you were against it
<X3N> oh, I thought we had agreed to change
<popey> I am happy to test migrate to lighttpd for a period, and if it doesn't "fix" the issue, go back.
<popey> or do something else
<popey> I am open to suggestions
<popey> I'm happy to do the migration to lighttpd, but not until thursday, we have the podcast tomorrow and release on wednesday so I dont really want to bork it before then :D
<X3N> ok
<popey> what I'd do is run lighttpd on another port in parallel and migrate the config over, then swap the ports and then shutdown apache, then uninstall it
<popey> ^^ thats my plan ;)
<X3N> sounds good
<dogmatic69> cherokee > * :)
<shauno> static pages > *  :)
<gord> cake > * :)
<daubers> where's cake?
 * daubers was given cake by his nan yesterday \o/
<Fanshawe> Hello folks.
<Fanshawe> I'm not sure whether anyone here was on yesterday, but I have some rather good news.
<Fanshawe> My ASUS is alive and well.
<dwatkins> hey folks, could someone please tell me if port 5060 is accessible on sipgate.de? (i.e. can you telnet to it and get something other than a refused connetion)
<oimon> telnet sipdate.de 5060 Trying 82.98.86.169...
<oimon> wooops sipGATE
<oimon> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
<dwatkins> hehe
<dwatkins> thanks oimon
 * dwatkins will also check with nmap
 * BigRedS is refused too
<dwatkins> wierd, I wonder if they use a different server for SIP logins, then
<dwatkins> either that, or all the methods I've tested and you both tested are blocking SIP
<davmor2> morning all
<dwatkins> unless it's because SIP is UDP
 * czajkowski gags davmor2 not a sound mister!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oi be nice :p
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
 * davmor2 flicks czajkowski's ear
<davmor2> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah don't stand for any nonsense from that czajkowski :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: hows tricks/
<MooDoo> ?
<popey> lies/whois tim
<popey> bah!
 * popey pokes tim with some biscuits
<davmor2> MooDoo: magic but not a lot
<MooDoo> davmor2: :D hows debbie ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Magic but not a lot :D
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> davmor2: i see you've made czajkowski be quiet ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: flicking ears will do that
<davmor2> MooDoo: that or you swear more times that the Blues Brothers get hit by the Penguin
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> davmor2: maybe i'll just get beat up on the quiet like, czajkowski the ninja
<davmor2> MooDoo: either way it'll need to subside before czajkowski can give me grief back
<MooDoo> davmor2: maybe we should disarm her with charm ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's us it'll only come across as smarm
<MooDoo> davmor2: hmmmmmm ok abuse it is
<czajkowski> davmor2: MooDoo http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/featured/dancing-ninja-freaks-out-passers-by/
<MooDoo> lol czajkowski are you planning on scaring us like that :D
<Gary> czajkowski is a ninja?
<gord> yes
<MooDoo> Gary: yes it's a rumour im starting......don't worry she can't hear us
<davmor2> MooDoo: I thought the whole point of a rumour was they didn't know who or how it got started
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh er.....
 * davmor2 starts the vicious tale that czajkowski isn't Irish but a Russian spy infiltrating England through Irish connections
<DJones> Heh. Mysql.com hacked by an sql injection exploit....Ooops
<MooDoo> davmor2: what?  she'll have her own tv show next
<shauno> cztabtv?  needs moar vowels :/
<shauno> just 'tab tv' rolls of the tongue tho.  this could work.
<MooDoo> oooo :)
<Gary> glad the cz<tab> thing is taking off, she likes that
 * Gary hides
<davmor2> shauno: You maybe her next nuclear tea victim
<MooDoo> pah tab.tv is taken :(
<shauno> dealextreme really needs  a button to hide all their 'personal massage devices' from results.  It really makes buying trash gizmos at work awkward.
<gord> postmen who don't knock on your door and just assume no one is in during the day are devil spawn. *devilspawn*.
<daubers> gord: You need some kind of postman trap, so if they don't knock, a MASSIVE pile of red rubber bands falls on their head, followed by a sign on a string saying "KNOCK DAMN YOU"
<shauno> red rubber bands is oddly specific.  should we be worried?
<daubers> shauno: Thats the kind that the postmen tend to leave all over your doorstep/road
<shauno> ah
<MooDoo> bloomin red rubber bands
<daubers> MooDoo: Does seem to be the right season for them
<MooDoo> i'm going to make a rubber band ball with all the ones i find outside my house, it will be massive in a week
<DJones> MooDoo: If you have as many red rubber bands near your house as I do, you could end up with a rubber ball with its own gravitational effects
<popey> ours does it too
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: and then throw it at the posty right :D
<gord> the problem i have is that this house has a small intercom outside, i guess somehow who needed one lived here before. but postmen who are new to the area think its a doorbell =\
<shauno> and then claim it couldn't possibly have been you, because you weren't home :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: it will be so big, i'll drop it out the top window.....postiecrusher v1
<davmor2> hehe
<czajkowski> gord: have your toys arrived yet?
<popey> my toys arrived from DX
<gord> czajkowski, *not* toys =\ professional grown up activity device! - but yes :)
<popey> http://twitpic.com/4dwbz3
<popey> ^^ my new electric car
<czajkowski> gord: toys :)
<nigelb> popey: can I steal it from you? :p
<davmor2> gord: so remove it
<shauno> do you ever wonder if the postie gets a bit suspect of all the HK Post packages you get?
<czajkowski> popey: you nicking poor sams toys
<gord> davmor2, i rent, can't really do that
<nigelb> gord: stick  tape over it
<davmor2> gord: tape over it then so they can't press the button :)
<nigelb> gord: for extra points, stick one that looks like 'evidence tape'
<shauno> if it's okay for a previous tenant to put it up, surely it's okay for a current tenant to take it down?
<gord> maybe i'll just tape an angry face to it
<nigelb> heh
<shauno> or wire it up to something :D
<shauno> one of those little recording gizmos they stick in cards.  so when you press it it says "that's not the doorbell".
<nigelb> hehe
<nigelb> that'd rock
<ali1234> smear some chocolate sauce on it. problem solved
<JGJones> does anyone here use Ekiga?
<JGJones> as wondering if I can get H.263, H.264 video codecs with Ekiga? (as it still doesn't use GStreamer)
<JGJones> Hmm look like I'll need to complie it myself? Haven't done such a thing for quite a while...let's see if I can remember how to do all that :-)
<willy_1977> 'ow do.
<oimon> JGJones: did you try medibuntu for a h264 plugin?
<popey> what backend does ekiga use then if not gstreamer?
<JGJones> My understanding is that it's using OPAL libraries
<czajkowski> popey: what kinda suggestions did you get for you mum ?
<JGJones> "out of the box" Ubuntu will give you H.261 and Theora as the video codecs
<JGJones> There's opal libraries that can give you h263, h263+ and mpeg4 but it's not available in Ubuntu repo.
<oimon> click here to use old twitter - yes please: 403 Forbidden: The server understood the request, but is refusing to fulfill it.
<oimon> oh
<shauno> "pacman error" was nowhere near as entertaining as I'd hoped for.
<BigRedS> oimon: it's been like that for a while
<oimon> updated hotot and now it won't start. i wonder whether installing gwibber will actually provide more functionality :P
<oimon> BigRedS: i don't use the webiste much..only when my clients break.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] GNOME Women: Work on docs! - http://philbull.livejournal.com/59356.html
<matti> ;]
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<seeker> Hi
<brobostigon> hi seeker
<seeker> How are you?
<brobostigon> seeker: up and down-ish, back and hip pain, how about you?
<seeker> In general, ok. Right now, a nervous wreck
<brobostigon> :(
<popey> bug #707321
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 707321 could not be found
<popey> baaaah
<seeker> I can't overstate just how irritating anxiety disorders are
<seeker> Popeysheep
<popey> moo
<seeker> Popeycow!
<seeker> I'm good at this!
<popey> squeeeeee
<brobostigon> seeker: not just irritating, but frightning, and heart stopping.
<shauno> popeynarwhal?
<popey> \o/
<willy_1977> seeker, brobostigon: physically take your breath.
<seeker> brobostigon: Yes, that too. My heart hasn't stopped yet, but is topping 120bpm
<brobostigon> seeker: not good, i know the feeling,i get it myself.
<brobostigon> willy_1977: yes, i know what to do, :)
<willy_1977> brobostigon, no I was saying for me, that pounding chest feeling takes my breath
<brobostigon> willy_1977: oh, sorry, yes, :)
<seeker> It's the feeling I'm about to pass put that's the worst
<seeker> *out
<brobostigon> seeker: i just get a feeling of total and shear fear, with nothing else in my mind, but having to find and go to a safe place.
<drpope> Never fear!
<drpope> Doctor Pope is hear!
<drpope> I prescribe beer for everyone!
<brobostigon> huh, ?
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> drpope: is popey?
<seeker> I get a knot in my chest, and my legs turn to jelly
<shauno> I hope so, else that's some freaky timing
<drpope> seeker: lime or strawberry jelly?
<willy_1977> cheers doc - in some respects going to the quack was for me (touch wood) I've not had an attack for over 2 years now...consider myself v. lucky.
<MooDoo> shauno: well i'm guessing lookint at the farn5 bit of the cable modem
<drpope> willy_1977: no problem, my work here is done!
<willy_1977> for me the best way to go *
<seeker> And the desire to F safe place
<seeker> *find a
<seeker> Which is hard with legs of jelly
<shauno> MooDoo: my stalk-fu is weak, I didn't know that offhand :)
 * popey returns from the cafe
 * seeker eyes Popey
<popey> hi seeker!
<MooDoo> shauno: well i'm guessing that farn = farnham
 * popey has pizza and pepsi max
<brobostigon> seeker: yes, i dont get it quite likethat, but are alldifferent, :)
<shauno> MooDoo: I mean, I didn't know popey's in farnham :p
<seeker> All the best people stalk Popey!
<MooDoo> :D
<popey> I'm not, currently.
<seeker> His ssh shell is
<shauno> now I'm several shades of confused.  this is why I avoid doctors.
<popey> pssst: no it isnt
<popey> farn != farnham
<seeker> :O
<seeker> Farnborough
<popey> \o/
<shauno> popey's an air show?
 * popey flies over everyone's heads
<popey> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!
<seeker> Yes, his car doubles as an aircraft carrier
<brobostigon> lol
<willy_1977> I like that new shape eurofighter... almost biblical
<willy_1977> very human lines.
<shauno> if my brain explodes, I'm sending you guys the dry cleaning bill, mmkay?
<willy_1977> never fear... we'll just call in that nice dr pope...
 * popey pops to the loo
<drpope> Did someone call!?
<seeker> :O
<willy_1977> wow... that response time is worth paying taxes for!
<hamitron> :))
<drpope> My help is Free as in Bear.
<willy_1977> drpope you have to help I do believe shauno is about explode all over his screen.
<drpope> Which is like free as in beer, but a bit more scary.
<willy_1977> oooer missus...
<seeker> Rawr
<dogmatic69> i changed my port in the ssh config and now i cant ssh into the box :/
<drpope> Silly rabbit.
<drpope> Have you tried rebooting it, I hear that works.
<shauno> you opened the new port on the firewall first?
<hamitron> he he
<hamitron> I did that once
<hamitron> :/
<dogmatic69> shauno: prob not :D
<hamitron> I was 28 miles away :/
 * dogmatic69 is still logged in with another terminal  ;)
<drpope> My sources tell me you could nmap the router to find out if the port is open
<drpope> My nurses tell me I should go and lie down though.
<dogmatic69> im ~10k miles away from the server :)
<dogmatic69> drpope: its not
<hamitron> dogmatic69: even worse
<drpope> open it?
<hamitron> ;)
<drpope> or change it back then open it
<dogmatic69> im looking now
 * hamitron DoSes dogmatic69's connection
 * drpope sleeps
 * popey returns
<directhex> un popey!
<dogmatic69> hamitron: you would need to know the ip
<shauno> here's what I do.  I backup sshd_config.  set a cronjob to restore from that backup & restart sshd on the hour, every hour.  mess around to my heart's content, and then remove that cronjob when I'm convinced I don't need a safety net anymore
<dogmatic69> or have enough power to take ec2 down :)
<hamitron> dogmatic69: I was assuming you are sshed in from the comp you are chatting from
<hamitron> :/
<dogmatic69> hamitron: maybe
<hamitron> oh I am very powerful, just not EC2 powerful :/
<shauno> so if he takes that one down, you're no longer logged in on another term :p
<dogmatic69> shauno: that is what server admins do when they been caught lots...
<hamitron> but I aren't anyway, so all good :)
<shauno> dogmatic69: I'm just paranoid about having to send support tickets that start "So, I'm as stupid as I look .."
<dogmatic69> hehe
<hamitron> can't you login using a java terminal or something?
<hamitron> I close down sshd on my vps
<hamitron> woohoo, all data off the RAID 0 arrays
<shauno> I just move it off 22.  I don't care if it's security thru obscurity or whatnot.  I show up in my logs more often than china now.
<hamitron> :D
<dogmatic69> ok, the site im reading says setting Port in sshd_config is good enough
<dogmatic69> that opens said port
<hamitron> but not the firewall
<dogmatic69> hmm
<hamitron> if you have a firewall?
<dogmatic69> oh, on amazon there is one...
<BigRedS> shauno: you don't need to do that - sshd only affects the login process. Once you've an ssh session, stopping sshd doesn't kill it
<BigRedS> so as long as you keep a shell open, you can break sshd
<BigRedS> and still fix it
<shauno> so then ntl not blowing chunks is my saftey net?   that's not very safe here :)
<dogmatic69> only one attempt left though :/
<hamitron> if you have no firewall on the machine, and there is a firewall out of your control, it sometimes pays to test the port with nmap and check it is "closed"
<BigRedS> I did hear that ubuntu server has a snazzy thing where it starts an sshd on a different port with a plain config for the duration of an upgrade, which sounds handy and thoughtful
<shauno> I trust my isp so much that they've stopped answering me on twitter =x
<hamitron> is ntl that bad?
<shauno> they seem to be rather spotty here.  I rarely go 24 hours without my line dropping
<shauno> but it's them, or the national telco.  I get the choice of incompetant, or intentionally evil.
<dogmatic69> \o/
<dogmatic69> was the ec2 group policies
<dogmatic69> thanks guys
<hamitron> !usbboot
<hamitron> !usb
<lubotu3> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<dogmatic69> ok, i can connect with ssh ... -p xxx
<dogmatic69> but setting Port in .ssh/config is not using that port, still uses 22
 * HazRPG thinks I missed a lot today's topics it would seem
<HazRPG> +of*
<brobostigon> good afternoon HazRPG :)
<popey> dogmatic69: how are you setting it in .ssh/config ?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: goooood afternoonings squire :D
<popey> Host foo
<popey>   Port NNNN
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<dogmatic69> host <somename> \n User <user> \n HostName <ip> \n Port <xyz>
<dogmatic69> popey: ^
<HazRPG> brobostigon: how's you today?
<shauno> and then you connect to 'somename' rather than ip/realname?
<brobostigon> HazRPG:  up and down-ish, back and hip pain, how about you?
<dogmatic69> popey: dont mind me... i was doing ssh  user@host, not ssh <somename>
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm alright, should really learn to stop slouching as much though
<brobostigon> HazRPG: not good for your back, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I know :(
<HazRPG> brobostigon: its already arched because of years of slouching
<oimon> i slouch a lot and it never seems to casuse back problems
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes,thatwont help.
<HazRPG> can't help it though
<popey> http://twitter.com/dontslouch !
<popey> follow that :)
<BigRedS> hah. that's awesome!
 * BigRedS follows
<oimon> www.gettomahawk.com looks like what amarok 2.x should  have been
<BigRedS> It'll be like my mum being on twitter
<popey> suggestions for better / new things for it to say welcome
<davmor2> popey: which editor did you go with in the end?
<popey> davmor2: not for me to decide :)
<popey> wont get a chance to play till the end of the week when Sophie breaks up from school
<oimon> how many years of slouching are required to get a bad back?
<oimon> gwibber is an embarrassment. > 2 minutes to start and then missing loads of messages
<MooDoo> oimon: install tweetdeck then :p
<willy_1977> +1 for tweetdeck
<oimon> how much extra crap do i have to install? adobe air?
<popey> oimon: ls -l ~/.config/gwibber/*.sqlite
<popey> how big is your gwibber db?
<oimon> 40mb
<popey> http://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/51729802612322304
<popey> (kill gwibber and gwibber-service first though)
<oimon> cool
<oimon> did an rm before i saw that
<MartijnVdS> kill gwibber.. I dream of that
<oimon> haven't used gwibber since disocering hotot
<oimon> but hotot daily build is broken
<oimon> no rollback
<davmor2> popey: changing -l to -lh makes it far clearer that the answer is shed loads  149M
<popey> -rw-r--r-- 1 alan alan 65M 2010-09-22 08:04 gwibber.sqlite
<popey> and that's missing 6 months of tweets
<popey> did you see the bug report from the guy who has a massive sqlite db?
<popey> he follows 17K people
<andatche> popey: I've just found something on my todo list I've been neglecting
<BigRedS> I found that amusing
<andatche> UUPC mirror!
<popey> \o/
<davmor2> popey: ouch that's gonna be high
<popey> yeah, it was GB's
<andatche> popey: could you remind me of the details I need to get it configured and I'll get it done this afternoon
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/PodcastMirroring
<andatche> danke, will ping you when it's done
<davmor2> popey: you'd think there would be an option to clear previous data
<oimon> arghh 5 mins of gwibber and all the pain is coming pain.. apt-get purge gwibber!
<popey> you think it wouldn't attempt to hold your entire archive of tweets from everyone you follow...
<willy_1977> or give the user the ability to set the timeframe... then if their daft enough... etc.
<willy_1977> they're*
<MartijnVdS> popey: but what if you want to reply to something they tweeted 6 years ago?!
<popey> good luck getting gwibber to scroll that far
<nperry> Because of gwibber I don't uise desktop apps anymore, I use the website...
<nperry> Wow, unity support multi monitor good!
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Sadist!
 * Laney stops slouching
<popey> \o/
<willy_1977> ok so can you get gwibber to FRO?
<DJones> Afternoon
<popey> ahem
<popey> sudo apt-get remove gwibber --purge
<davmor2> Laney: you can buy one of those car buzzer that goes off if you head tips forward/sideways and attempts to wake you up :D
<gord> is gwibber that bad? it isn't so bad for me
<popey> yes, it is
 * Laney uses seesmic web
 * brobostigon hasnt been able to get gwibber do twitter recently, my only major complaint.
<popey> but I have 8 accounts on my gwibber
<gord> i mean, for me all i require it to do is display tweets and twitter things i say, for my usecase it works fine and is the only thing i have found that supports everything i use
<oimon> gwibber is possibly the worst written app on ubuntu, in terms of bugs and slowness.. it's a shame because potentially it could be great
<popey> +2
<brobostigon> hence i have had to setup twirssi again.
<willy_1977> how new is it?
<gord> i wish it was more responsive - but thats about it. when you click on a person it takes a while to show what they have been tweeting. makes me think that a simple spinner wound solve that though
<davmor2> gord: I'm with you I use it all day no issues
<popey> bah, natty is bigger than 700MB
<popey> ooo, alternate is okay
<gord> what storage is only 700mb? o_O
<popey> the iso
<nperry> !info dropbox
<lubotu3> Package dropbox does not exist in maverick
<nperry> !google ubuntu dropboox
<lubotu3> I have no google command, use http://www.google.com/
<nperry> Lazy :P
<shauno> disappointing answer.  It should say !google it yourself
<oimon> facebook support works with 1/10 messages, gwibber maxing out RAM and CPU usage. takes ages to respond (compare with instantenous hotot)
<oimon> other crashy bugs not fixed
<popey> the slow response is painful
<DJones> brobostigon: I keep trying twirssi, but I've never been able to get it working
<popey> i got it working and no longer touch it
<brobostigon> DJones: it was hell the first time to setup, and second timealso had loads of trouble, but once setup, it works fairly well.
<DJones> brobostigon: Is there a guide you've seen that works ok, I've tried a couple but although it installs, I get error messages trying to log in
<gord> are there any alternatives to gwibber that support status net, twitter and buzz? status menu support is also a plus. i'm not against using something else if it works better
<oimon> is status.net a copycat of identica?
<BigRedS> no, it's what identica is
<BigRedS> identica implements status.net
<BigRedS> in the same way as Rackspace Cloud is OpenStack
<brobostigon> DJones: the first i follwed, was onthe crunchbang wiki.
<DJones> brobostigon: Same here, that was what I started with
 * TheOpenSourcerer just marks popey 's tweet as a favorite.
<brobostigon> DJones: and it seemed to have wroked.
<willy_1977> popey: by the way thanks for the removal command ;)
<popey> np
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: which one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> The how to clean Gwibber one
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's getting painful.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ~500MB
<popey> ahhh
<TheOpenSourcerer> alord@lobsang:~$ ls -lh ~/.config/gwibber/*.sqlite
<TheOpenSourcerer> -rw-r--r-- 1 alord alord 458M 2011-03-28 15:06 /home/alord/.config/gwibber/gwibber.sqlite
<brobostigon> 1.8M    gwibber.sqlite
<gord> maybe gwibber only struggles if you are popular on the twitters ;)
<brobostigon> maybe,
 * oimon only have follower/ing in douoble figures
<brobostigon> not to sayi am notpopular, because i am not.
<oimon> any app that logs verbosely into sqlite and doesn't have garbage collect /cleaning up is alpha quality
<oimon> and advertises stuff that doesn't actually work properly
<brobostigon> oimon: like its twitter module.
<directhex> i use tweetdeck, for my sins
<dogmatic69> if i have from="<ip>" <pub-key> in .ssh/authorized_keys, what is the chance that someone has the same external ip as an internal one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> What are some alternatives to gwibber? Don't want tweetdeck though - tried it and didn't like it plus all the Air stuff...
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, most twitter clients are using a bloaty framework like Air, or integration into a chat client like irssi/smuxi
<brobostigon> air on my eeepc, is more painful than gwibber.
<directhex>  /empathy/etc
<JGJones> I'm using Hotot as my twitter client
<oimon> there's a few kde ones: choqok has good features but ugly ui
<JGJones> Nicer to use than Gwibber, but it's alpha
<oimon> http://choqok.gnufolks.org/
<JGJones> VERY nice UI though
<popey> "kde ones" "ugly ui"
<popey> fancy that
 * TheOpenSourcerer reads about http://hotot.org/
<oimon> JGJones: hotot is broken right now
<popey> hah
<oimon> i don't think new users can add a twitter account
<oimon> that's the problem i have since 0.9.6
<JGJones> oimon, I was able to add a twitter account.
<nperry> !info ubuntu-mono/natty
<lubotu3> Package ubuntu-mononatty does not exist in maverick
<nperry> !info ubuntu-mono natty
<lubotu3> ubuntu-mono (source: ubuntu-mono): Ubuntu Mono Icon theme. In component main, is optional. Version 0.0.26 (natty), package size 279 kB, installed size 6380 kB
<oimon> JGJones: :(
<oimon> JGJones: just now?
<DJones> brobostigon: This is the error I get as soon as I use the /twitter_login command http://paste.org/pastebin/view/30896
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hotot just installed and worked for me.
<JGJones> oimon, few days ago
 * oimon is sad
<JGJones> oimon, suggest you remove all profiles for hotot and try again
<oimon> i've purged all stuffs from my machine
<JGJones> oimon, in your home
<oimon> are you using the hotot ppa
<JGJones> oimon, um...I believe so
<oimon> mine was working until recently
<oimon> tried all the versions in my /var/apt/cache/archives
<JGJones> I noticed a update for hotot today, but it's still 0.9.6 and that still works, although i do get error messages, but otherwise it works.
<brobostigon> DJones: no idea,sorry, i would go and ask the perl guys, as it looks like anerror inthatperl module.
<oimon> hey, that's bizarre
<oimon> JGJones: been trying for 1 hr, then suddenly it worked with no intervention - must hve been a twitter server error
<oimon> one annoying thing is that you can't delete tweets from your timeline , or mark them as read, when others mention you.
<JGJones> oimon, it's still alpha :)
<oimon> anyone who finds gwibber's responsiveness acceptable hasn't used hotot :)
<brobostigon> oimon: what protocols does it do, it doesnt say much on their site.
<oimon> brobostigon: only twitter and identica for now.
<JGJones> brobostigon, twitter and identi.ca
<brobostigon> status.net?
<JGJones> no...just the two
<popey> status.net _is_ identi.ca
<popey> well, vice versa
<brobostigon> so ptaylor.status.net/ptaylor is supported?
<brobostigon> or isn*
<brobostigon> isnt*
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: depends on the IP
<BigRedS> but if you've two hosts on the same network sharing an IP, things will be very broken
<BigRedS> you'd notice
<brobostigon> i will rss their blog, and keep my eye open.
<oimon> brobostigon: it is an active project, so it's worth raising a feature feqest
<oimon> feqest=request
<brobostigon> oimon: ok, i will try it out later and see what i think.
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: like 10.x.x.x
<dogmatic69> internal ec2 ip
<BigRedS> brobostigon: I've no idea, really, I don't know what sort of setup you have on ec2
<BigRedS> does also depend upon what the IP actully is
<brobostigon> BigRedS: umm, ?
<Snomi> getting a 'kernal panic' and it says it cannot open root sda5 when I try to boot ubuntu
<shauno> curious, what's the backstory to this?
<Snomi> shauno: there isnt any. only that ubuntu updated
<Snomi> i can run windows fine
<dogmatic69> sda5 is a drive that was mounted?
<Snomi> no..
<Snomi> also it said 'please append correct 'root=' '
<shauno> yeah, they're the same issue.  it's trying to use sda5 as your root device.  when it can't find a root device, it dies.  before it dies, it'll leave suggestions that you try to find what it couldn't
<shauno> it should be searching by uuid tho, which is why I asked if there's any history to this
<shauno> do you have any drives (even usb) connected that wouldn't usually be?
<Snomi> shauno: no
<shauno> I think your best bet is going to be to boot from a livecd, and from there we can find out what drive your root should be, and where grub thinks it is.  and make sure they're the same answer
<Snomi> yeah
<willy_1977> is this still on going? if so...did it upgrade to the alpha release? only asking because I had this when I "upgraded" recently, and I fixed it by going through to the previous kernels recovery option and rebuilding grub.cfg with the option that is displayed (sorry can't remember the exact option) YMMV of course.
<shauno> sounds like a pretty sensible option (if sda5 is there, and a recent kernel is fluffed.  that'd be a pretty bad fluf tho)
<willy_1977> I don't think it was the kernel to be honest - I was having my own panic and just decided to go back a stage and calm down :) I'm saying it may work just going through the recovery option on your current kernel.
<willy_1977> also no further updates and the new kernel worked post grub.cfg update... so that leads me to believe I was being a great jessie ;)
<tyreza> hello
<tyreza> anyone there ?
<willy_1977> tyreza, hello.
<tyreza> hello willy_1977
<tyreza> who know sed ?
<tyreza> using sed is it possible to change a value ?
<shauno> tyreza: for example?
<willy_1977> guess it depends
<tyreza> i need to change wiki to mickey on a file
<tyreza> how to do ?
<dwatkins> use a regular expression that's very carefully crafted, tyreza
<shauno> sed 's/wiki/mickey/g' <oldfile >newfile
<tyreza> great now
<dwatkins> What if the fil contains the word "wikipedia"?
<dwatkins> *file
<shauno> then welcome to mickeypedia :)
 * dwatkins grins
<tyreza> ok
<daubers> \o/ Disneys dream of world domination comes true
<tyreza> lol
<tyreza> i need to delete just only  a line called mickepedia
<tyreza> how to do it using sed ?
<dwatkins> That's a very different thing from replacing, tyreza.
<tyreza> so i can't use sed
<tyreza> ?
<dwatkins> You can, you might want to use grep -v, though.
<dwatkins> I suggest backing up all files first, and running tests.
<shauno> it may be better if you try to describe what you're trying to do fully, rather than get hung up on which tool you're going to use for it
<tyreza> using grep -v we can delete a line ?
<dwatkins> tyreza: as shauno says, what exactly do you want to do?
<willy_1977> shauno, +1 to that.
<tyreza> i simply need to remove a line wich is present on network interfaces file
<dwatkins> What is uniue to this line, and could you not just edit the file by hand?
<dwatkins> *unique
<tyreza> yes of course i can
<tyreza> but i need to do the same thing on several pc
<tyreza> i got ssh access
<dwatkins> I suspected that might be the case, understood.
<tyreza> on 3 pc
<tyreza> i simply want to simplify the task that's all
<dwatkins> You want a one-liner you can run on muiltiple machines and re-use when you have to reinstall them, in other words.
<Snomi> willy_1977: yeah probably had the same as you
<dwatkins> I would also ask why the line needs removing, but that's another question.
<willy_1977> Snomi, so sorted now?
<tyreza> me tyreza take the decision to remove that file
<tyreza> i can't tell you more on that
<shauno> now this is odd, watching the same conversation in two channels ;)  makes me glad it's time for me to go home.  back in an hour or so
<dwatkins> o.O
 * dwatkins goes to a meeting, back later
<willy_1977> shauno, "enjoy" the commute.
<shauno> I will!  it's sunny out
<willy_1977> and you're on the way home!!!
<shauno> when it's this nice out there, not driving rocks :)
<oimon> \o/ does the sysadmin dance
<BigRedS> oimon: is that the walk to the pub?
<oimon> BigRedS: it's the dance you do when fixing a weird problem
<oimon> you know i have issues with hanging (
<DJones> oimon: Is that this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C6r6fG4k40
<oimon> well, ) i also notice that NXEA have started saying "full complement" of carriages instead of compliment in their twice daily emails...double yay
<oimon> DJones: is that RMS?
<DJones> Yep :)
<BigRedS> oimon: Ah! The getting-a-celebratory-coffee one :)
<oimon> djones more like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSR9ZrREb40
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqvymLQEiB8
<oimon> ARRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHH it's not fixed
<oimon> ah wait...maybe it is
<DJones> oimon: I thought that was the Safety Dance
 * oimon is having issues with large files >2gb  cannot be created on a filesystem
<dogmatic69> x64
<bigcalm> directhex: fnar fnar
<daubers> oimon: Fat32?
<oimon> ext3, turns out i have to pass -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 to the C compiler
 * oimon waits to find out if he is successful
<dogmatic69> fatx, fat16 and fatx have 2gig limits
<directhex> fatx does? really? what's the point of it then?
<oimon> ..............\o/    dances across the room in victory
<dogmatic69> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems
<willy_1977> directhex, fatx as in the xbox format...?
<willy_1977> exFat is something like 16EiB
<bigcalm> Daviey: stop talking, you're flooding this place :P
<dogmatic69> willy_1977: 127 PB
<bigcalm> Daviey: awaken
<dogmatic69> slightly off topic... anyone into bikes?
<willy_1977> dogmatic69: I'm into the pedal bike variety... :)
<bigcalm> ARGH!
 * brobostigon shakes fist at the washing up.
 * dogmatic69 wants something a bit faster :P
<bigcalm> How come it's 5pm?
<willy_1977> shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiii.... 1700 already... :o
<dogmatic69> beats 18:00
<willy_1977> oh... that means...
<willy_1977> be back later... time for me to "do one"...
<dogmatic69> o.o
<DJones> Heh, my dad has just had a phone call from an overseas gentleman to tell him that his computer has got a virus & they could fix it if he connects to their website logmein123.com which would give them remote access
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> Goodness
<oimon> i've never had one of those calls..
<DJones> oimon: There's quite a bit on the internet about the scams
<brobostigon> DJones: i hope  you told him to ignore them.
<oimon> i wonder if PC world just send the customer lists
<oimon> i mean, a rogue employee
<brobostigon> oimon: you bet.
<DJones> He must have been wetting himself laughing though, they told him to click on the internet explorer icon, I haven't got one of them, ok, click the Start button, I don't have that. Which version of Windows are you using, I don't know, my son set it up, its got a purple screen :)
<brobostigon> DJones: hehe, :)
<Daviey> bigcalm, sorry :(
<DJones> brobostigon: For a 70+ year old he's not as senile as you'd think :)
<brobostigon> DJones: :)
<DJones> hah, just told me, after that, they asked for his email address and they'd send him a file that would do it for him, not sure what his email address was, ok, open up Outlook express or windows live mail, I use evolution for my email.......Their reply, What is Evolution? Dad's reply its the email it comes with
<brobostigon> :)
 * bigcalm hugs Daviey
<bigcalm> DJones: was your dad playing along?
<DJones> just slightly, he knows exactly what o/s he uses
<brobostigon> DJones: yes. :)
<bigcalm> Oh good
<DJones> Mainly because I have to keep reminding him that he doesn't need to be worried about emails everybody forwards to him telling him to watch out for viruses by email called Postcard.exe etc
<brobostigon> oh, sorry, i misunderstood.
<davmor2> hahahahahahahahahaha.   Under unity hit alt-f2 and type in free the fish it's funnier than watching the fish swim by :)
<czajkowski> I get there is no... ter egg in unity
<BigRedS> it works in Gnome whatever-came-before-unity too
<BigRedS> is that 2.x or 1.x?
<Snomi> the reason it didnt work was because the update didnt complete >.<
<davmor2> BigRedS: no it tells you there is no easter egg in unity
<davmor2> BigRedS: with a picture of wonder
 * brobostigon has found another bug, in empathy 2.91.93 facebook contcts dont update properly as people come on or offline, and are also invisible incontact list,when they are talking to you.
<BigRedS> davmor2: ahh
<davmor2> BigRedS: so there is an easter egg to tell you there is no easter egg :D
<BigRedS> heh heh
<Fanshawe> Hey popey. I see you lurking, and I remember you saying you had an old Eee 900 which was equally as buggered as mine.
<Fanshawe> I think mine's okay now, it involved a few distro switches, though.
<Fanshawe> Eeebuntu 3, then Easypeasy, and now it's running on that just fine. Unfortunately, I hate netbook editions.
<popey> hah
<Fanshawe> BUT, it's not bricked and I can recover all the stuff I backed up, so I'm happy. I recommend giving Eeebuntu a try before binning the entire thing, though.
<popey> great stuff
<Fanshawe> I know, not thoroughly technical advice, but it's saved me a whole lot of hassle, and 'tis usable again.
<Fanshawe> Anyway, thanks to you guys for the help.
<popey> np
<Fanshawe> Oh, one more thing, did you have that link to the problem logged somewhere? It's a reported bug, right?
<czajkowski> popey: do you have any live usb of karmic at home?
<popey> karmic!?
<popey> no
<popey> easy enough to make one tho
<czajkowski> yup :) I need to see if a karmic install may get my mini 9 back to life, if not it goes in the bin
<popey> whats wrong with the 9 ?
<czajkowski> popey: could you make one up for me tomorrow. my virigin internets is pish posh today
<czajkowski> it went all wrong installing natty a few weeks back
<popey> sure
<popey> why karmic though
<czajkowski> and it seemingly fails a memory test
<popey> thats old old
<czajkowski> yes but it worked well on karmic and it wasnt till I went to upgrade to maverick things went hairy
<popey> install maverick rather than upgrade?
<czajkowski> I think 2 of the usb ports are gone as well so done to last one to try.
<czajkowski> maverick didnt work well on it
<czajkowski> :s
<czajkowski> if not tis going in the bin
<shauno> you upgraded karmic to maverick?
<shauno> (eg, without giving lucid a lil hug on the way past)
<czajkowski> and possibly buying http://www.pcwb.co.uk/catalogue/item/A0561342?gclid=CI7H--vc8acCFcoa4QodYhknaw
<czajkowski> shauno: no I went to lucid also.
<shauno> okie.  had to ask :o)
<czajkowski> there are a lot of threads on the Ubuntu mailing list over that laptop
<Fanshawe> popey: Is it worth trying Natty on the Eee?
<popey> dunno, not tried natty on mine
<brobostigon> i have.
<popey> czajkowski: drop the 9 round my place, I'll fix it
<popey> :)
<popey> or gimmie it tomorrow
<czajkowski> if you fix it beers are on me :)
<shauno> just be careful he doesn't get too much sugar, else drpope will fill it full of bear :/
<brobostigon> aslong as you canavoid the gpu-lockup/hang errors because of xserver-xorg-video-intel, it would be worth trying, but you might not get them.
<popey> brobostigon: bugs filed?
<brobostigon> popey: yes.
<brobostigon> popey: including after reports of repeated hangs/lockups.
<czajkowski> hmm I feel the need to have spag bol tonight.  To the co-op
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/715096
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 715096 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [High,Incomplete]
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: other than that bug, natty works fine.
<brobostigon> hence i am running in vesa mode right now.
<exobuzz> i only had gpu lockups since 2.6.38 they go when downgrading to 2.6.37 so perhaps its not only the driver. having said that, the lockups i had were with 2.6.38rc and since final ive only had one freeze (temporary)
<Fanshawe> brobostigon: Thanks. You remember the error I had, though, right?
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: yes, i havent seen it yet here in natty.
<exobuzz> they added a bunch of intel stuff to 2.6.38 regarding intel gpus
<Fanshawe> Alright. I'll go for it, because I can't stand the 'netbook optimised' thing I'm running here.
<brobostigon> exobuzz: since i changed to vesa, no lockups/hangs,
<Fanshawe> That's odd. Anyone direct me to a working link for Natty?
<Fanshawe> I could even go back down to 10.04 if it's required, or will that incur the same bug?
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: cdimage.ubuntu.com
<exobuzz> brobostigon, i need my h/w acceleration though
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: i didnt get the gpu lockup in 10.10.
<brobostigon> exobuzz: me too, but i am hoping this is a temporerymeasure.
<exobuzz> brobostigon, try downgrading to 2.6.37 kernel and see if its ok then
<brobostigon> exobuzz: i will try that, i think i still have a 37 installed.
<Fanshawe> I might openly weep if Natty brings about the same problem. But I guess I can always go back to the setup I have now.
<JGJones> I've got a important support query here....
<brobostigon> JGJones: fire away, :)
<JGJones> Just getting into Minecraft - and doing a farm - would making a underground water lake with a block of soil work for farming? (what....you mean this is for Ubuntu only?)
<JGJones> :D
<shauno> JGJones: yes.  my wheat farm is 3 floors deep and all underground.  the only restriction is water beside soil and one block of air above soil.  and light.  torches are sufficient.
<brobostigon> lol
<bigcalm> Think light stone would work?
<shauno> haven't tried.  torches are cheaper :o)
<JGJones> shauno - thanks...now off to construct my small farm...
<shauno> I'm not sure how to describe my setup, but I put a row of water with two blocks of glass on top.  then a row of soil with 1 block of glass on top (soil, air, glass).  then a row of floor with no glass.
<shauno> stops anything falling in the water, stops me falling in the wheat :o)
<Azelphur> shauno: sounds similar to mine
<shauno> (yes, it's way OT.  at work we're told that if the customer thinks it's important, then it's important :p  )
<directhex> #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
<shauno> ((unless the customer is poor))
<Azelphur> xD
<JGJones> thanks directhex - joining that now
<Azelphur> shauno: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/March%202010/2011-03-28_18.22.19.png here's mine :p
<directhex> lava?
<Fanshawe> Maybe I'm being a massive idiot here, but what can I use to create a Live ISO with Natty on a USB?
<Azelphur> directhex: indeed, minecraft UV lamps xD
<Azelphur> Fanshawe: unetbootin
<Fanshawe> Right, got it.
<Azelphur> Fanshawe: it's in the repos you just give it an iso and off it goes, should work with any linux distro :)
<Fanshawe> Cool, thank you Azelphur.
<Fanshawe> Also, in light of all my mistakes recently, I've decided it's wise to keep an extra USB with Puppy on it, just in case.
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: i have a dual booted haiku and debian for that, from sdhc.
<Fanshawe> My netbook seems a little bit too small to dual boot. 4GB native drive.
<brobostigon> Fanshawe: mine is 16GB here.
<Fanshawe> I should consider updating my three year old laptop.
<Fanshawe> er, netbook.
<Fanshawe> Maybe get something alongside it.
<shauno> Azelphur: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2011-03-28_18.38.00.png   (the T shape glass over the water is my key to making harvesting smooth)
<Azelphur> shauno: yea the T shape is what I have, but I have the middle of the T missing and I put lava there so I have UV Lamps instead of torches :D
<shauno> I found coal galore mining that out.  not so much lava :o)
<Azelphur> hehe, I have a base at Y=11
<shauno> tis something I'll keep in mind, but I tend to make messes with lava
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> last one, just because it tickles my geek; lava messes on purpose :o)  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2011-03-14_03.32.32.png
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> all fixed
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> I'm thinking of buying a netbook, what would you guys recommend?
<hamitron> one with more than 600 pixel height screen
 * jacobw remembers this being a hassle with his old AA1
<hamitron> I dunno how good it was, but amazon had one with an HD display for 200 quid
<hamitron> it looked good
<Azelphur> jacobw: I bought a really nice EEE that I'm happy with
<Azelphur> jacobw: although I want a tablet netbook myself, they are cool :D
<hamitron> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-IdeaPad-netbook-1-66GHz-Bluetooth/dp/tech-data/B004300L7A/ref=de_a_smtd
 * brobostigon shouts and screams and shakes his fist at peoples, un-decisiveness making things more difficult.
<shauno> I still don't "get" netbooks, really :(
<Azelphur> lol
<brobostigon> sorry.
<Azelphur> jacobw: http://azelphur.com/my-new-netbook-asus-1001p-review my netbook, I love it
<Azelphur> I wanna sell it so I can get something like this though http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ASUS-Eee-PC-T101MT-10-1-Touchscreen-Tablet-Netbook-/110665921011?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item19c433f1f3#ht_500wt_1158
<jacobw> Hmm, I don't want a touchscreen on my 'PC' just yet
<hamitron> Azelphur: did it run 2nd life?
<Azelphur> hamitron: it did.
<hamitron> :)
 * brobostigon wants another BeBox, :)
<Azelphur> it won't do minecraft though, even with the +20fps hack :(
<hamitron> but I would look at something like Azelphur wants
<hamitron> then i wouldn't need a seperate ebook reader
<hamitron> be nicer with 768 pixel height....
<hamitron> my first comp did 800x600
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> my laptop does 1920x1200 xD
<hamitron> Azelphur: what resolutions does it do at std aspect ratio?
<shauno> hamitron: my first comp did 192x160.  You're spoilt :p
<Azelphur> my 1001P? not sure
<hamitron> that WUXGA?
<jacobw> What is the battery life like Azelphur ?
<hamitron> my laptops are UXGA (1600x1200) and I love it
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> jacobw: on my netbook? it'll do 7-8 hours
<Azelphur> it's pretty insane :p
 * hamitron pokes Azelphur
<hamitron> look at the resolutions ;)
 * Azelphur counter pokes
<hamitron> :-o
<Azelphur> but I have to walk all the way over to the other side of the room and get it :(
<Azelphur> long walk is long :(
<hamitron> DO IT
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> pretty plz
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> ok :P
<hamitron> although, when i beefy 200mhz cpu comp comes, won't need a netbook
<hamitron> s/i/my
<hamitron> still be nice to have ssomething portable
<hamitron> Azelphur: you not considered the dell inspiron duo?
<Azelphur> course I have, it's shiny
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> and the advertising is as good as Apple
<hamitron> Azelphur: it has to be scaled correctly too on your Eee
<Azelphur> hamitron: 1024 x 600 (16:9)
<Azelphur> according to monitor preferences :)
<hamitron> 800x600?
<Azelphur> it can do that at 4:3
<hamitron> with black lines either side I hope
<hamitron> yeh, 4:3 is what I am interested in
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> yup, black lines either side
<hamitron> and 5:4
<hamitron> anything higher than 800x600?
<Azelphur> it's just 1024x600, 800x600, 640x480
<hamitron> ok, ty
<hamitron> if there were drivers for win98, would be a win
<Azelphur> can't you just vm win98?
<hamitron> I'd only want win98 for games
<hamitron> I'm guessing it would be slow
<Azelphur> I doubt it
<Azelphur> win98 era games should work in a vm
<shauno> slower than the computers 98 was designed to run on?
<hamitron> vm are not good for 3d
<hamitron> I'd want 1.6ghz cpu and raw GPU performance
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> vmware's not too bad for 3d (windows guest)
<hamitron> it so is
<hamitron> I tried it last week hoping it would be good
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> I'll rephrase.  I play games in vmware.  have fun finding win32 drivers for anything made in the last 5 years
<shauno> :p
<hamitron> drivers are the problem
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> so what games do you play?
<shauno> the worst part is, if you find them; your reward is windows 98
<hamitron> haha
<shauno> red alert 2.  westwood need mac support, like, yesterday
<hamitron> my ideal setup would be win98 for games, than linux for proper use
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> (yes, that's not really 3d.  but everything else I can run sensibly, natively)
<hamitron> on a netbook?
<shauno> no, I don't have a netbook
<shauno> I'd explain why, but this place errs towards family-friendly language :o)
<hamitron> problem with vmware on a netbook, you are lacking power to play stuff natively
<shauno> problem with * on a netbook, you are lacking *
<hamitron> hehe
<shauno> if lacking is a problem, you're buying the wrong tool for the wrong job
<hamitron> sort of
<hamitron> but IF you could run win98 on them, there would be a huge library of games that would play well on them
<hamitron> the intel graphics aren't that bad for older games
<ali1234> i noticed that red alert is available in the ovi store now
<ali1234> i was going to dl it but it said "this app collects information for advertising purposes" so i didn't
<shauno> the way I see it, really, is you buy a tool for a job.  if the job isn't "mobility", the tool isn't "a netbook".  there's much better ways to spend Â£200 on a win98 gaming machine.
<ali1234> netbooks are rarely the right tool for the job
<ali1234> they are really only good if you need to hack on the move and don't want to carry a full laptop
<shauno> I think they have their niche.  I don't think games are it.
<ali1234> and also you have tiny hands
<shauno> if you have tiny hands, btw, I'd like to borrow you to reassemble some stuff I took apart yesterday :(
<ali1234> i'm pretty good at that stuff
<ali1234> i put this back together: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/ideapad/20101125_020.jpg
<hamitron> I have normal laptop for games, just too big to carry
<shauno> there's a band of plastic I can't seem to get back into place in my gp2x.  whenever I try, it starts going from red to pink.  and I'm well aware that introducing whiteness in plastic is a sure sign you're doing it wrong.
<ali1234> yeah
<shauno> hamitron: get a motorcycle to carry the laptop.  it'll last longer, and be more fun than win98 :D
<ali1234> i don't see the point of a laptop for gaming
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> ali1234: for when away from home
<ali1234> i don't play games when away from home
<shauno> my laptop's my main machine.  gaming's not a problem.
<ali1234> because when i go outside my house it's for one of three reasons: work, visiting someone, on holiday
<ali1234> or 4: gone to shops
<ali1234> no reason to play games in any of these cases
<shauno> you're not me :o)  my laptop plays games at work .. on weekends
<ali1234> yeah, i don't have a job where i sit around doing nothing
<hamitron> I used to play games on the train when travelling
<ali1234> i used to have a job like that, it made me crazy and i had to quit
<hamitron> but get sick of carrying a brick
<hamitron> and a netbook is better suited for games, than the average phone imo
<shauno> I'm perfectly capable of doing nothing.  It's when they start inventing tasks for the sole point of looking like we're doing something, that craziness sets in
<hamitron> hehe
<shauno> this week I do nothing.  it's cool.  it's a 2-day week.  next week I get to train romanians on 408 volts without killing them.  Weeks like that make quiet weeks perfectly acceptable.
<hamitron> http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=DXretj33CC7MoAHh
<shauno> heeee that's funny.  "Elegant Seashell Inspired Design".
<shauno> s/Seashell/Macbook Air/
<hamitron> haha, yeh
<hamitron> but has SIS chipset
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> damn it
<hamitron> is it just me, or is the SIS website messed?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<shauno> Possibly. Is there a chance it fell into disuse years ago?
<hamitron> works in IE
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> what version IE?
<hamitron> 8
<shauno> seems to work here.  a bit dated, but functional
<hamitron> I was using chrome
<shauno> anyhow.  I'm off for the night.  I'll quit ribbing you for acting older than you oughta :p
<hamitron> SIS provide drivers
<hamitron> \o/
<hamitron> me?
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> aye
<hamitron> ;\
<hamitron> laters
<shauno> nowt wrong with it.  you just keep striking me as 40+ :)
<shauno> makes perfect sense if the savings are going into a new bike tho :D
<hamitron> I've seen the bike today
<hamitron> Â£2500
<hamitron> 1400 miles on the clock :/
<smittix> evening all
<hamitron> evening
<shauno> 1400 miles is nothing
<hamitron> so long as it has been run in properly
<shauno> will they let you play with it?
<hamitron> shop wasn't open
<shauno> oh
<hamitron> it was 8am
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> that's how I shop.  if it makes you grin like you're 7 again, it's worth it
<hamitron> both my bikes still do
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> that's why I'm still paying off a loan on a mini  :o(
<shauno> but it's still the only proper mini in the state.  our time together was worth it :D
<hamitron> hehe
<shauno> 'night
<hamitron> nn o/
<NET||abuse> hi guys..
<hamitron> evening
<NET||abuse> got a weird snv issue, when i try to checkout my svn repo  I get             svn: OPTIONS of 'http://blah.com/svn/trunk' : 200 OK (http://blah.com)
<NET||abuse> ubuntu hardy server (lol) and ubuntu 10.10 laptop
<NET||abuse> any idea what's causing that?
<X3N> there isn't an actual error there, so that's a bit difficult to say
<NET||abuse> hmm
<NET||abuse> is there a way to get more verbosity out of svn
<NET||abuse> ?
<X3N> you might want to use GIT instead if you want revision control, most people have depreciated svn in favour of git
<NET||abuse> :(
<NET||abuse> but i don't know git
<NET||abuse> :(
<X3N> it's not too difficult
<X3N> i'd say it was worth learning given the uptake
<MartijnVdS> or any distributed vcs really
<MartijnVdS> Git is nice, but its command-line ui exposes way too much of its buts
<MartijnVdS> easier to start with hg or bzr (to learn the concepts), then switch to git later if required/wanted
<hamitron> http://old.nabble.com/svn-initial-setup-help-td25246670.html
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: git, bzr, hg can all speak svn if they have to :)
<hamitron> I was still looking for the dude ;/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: Lebowski?
<jpds> MartijnVdS: Your name's Lebowski, dude.
 * hamitron spanks NET||abuse
<hamitron> see link, may help
<NET||abuse> jpds, eh?
<NET||abuse> urghh,, I mean hamitron eh?
<hamitron> looks like same output?
<NET||abuse> yup, but not the same problem.
<NET||abuse> the repo is live and visible in browser as i'm using web_dab
<NET||abuse> ug,, web_dav
<NET||abuse> i'm pasting the url from the browser straight to my svn command linei input
<NET||abuse> so there's not path mixup like in nthe example.
<hamitron> k
<NET||abuse> hamitron, ok, so to give you an indication   http://svn.ashebrowne.com/svn/  is the parent path to my svn repos, i only have this one repo in there right now.
<AlanBell> evening all
<brobostigon> good evening AlanBell
<NET||abuse> hamitron, so if you click on it, you get the auth popup, i  can login and see all my files
<willy_1977> evening AlanBell
<NET||abuse> so that stuff is wworking.
<bigcalm> Anybody got an opinion on Buffalo Ministation 500GB - http://cuth.eu/buffhd
<hamitron> NET||abuse: so what command you use?
<hamitron> brb, phone
<NET||abuse> hamitron, sorry?
<NET||abuse> the command,    svn co http://svn.ashebrowne.com/svn/unifiedmedia/trunk/frontend
<NET||abuse> i tried also adding [my username]@ after the http://
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Balancing Freedom and Functionality: A Design Challenge - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/03/28/balancing-freedom-and-functionality-a-design-challenge/
<hamitron> bk
<popey> oo AlanBell
<popey> AlanBell: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00zsdsb
<HazRPG> hmm, virtualbox hates me
<HazRPG> I'm back from dinner + coffee :)
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> wb :p
<daubers> evening
<HazRPG> hamitron: \o/
<HazRPG> jacobw, daubers: \o/
<HazRPG> evening all
<HazRPG> anyone know if its just me, or if the virtualbox repo is going spare?
<HazRPG> seems to fail every time for the last week now
<HazRPG> giving me a nasty red ! mark on my panel to show "updates couldn't happen, try doing manually because a repo is being silly"
<HazRPG> makes me sad to see that ! mark :(
<HazRPG> also, how is everyone :)
<MartijnVdS> (!)
<hamitron> !!!
<HazRPG> ooo, still haven't done the router ma bob of ipv6 goodness!
<HazRPG> nows a good a time as any \o/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: DO IT NOW! :P
<hamitron> hmmm?
 * HazRPG opens up his new favourite tool called terminal :)
<MartijnVdS> Ooh.. free online concert in 27 minutes
<HazRPG> youtube?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ustream
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: also, links or it didn't happen!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ooo I use that site for streaming every now and then (on windows, haven't tried in linux yet)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: The woman with the crazy dresses - ustream.tv/channel/nerinapallot
<HazRPG> I'm in!
<HazRPG> don't know who she is... but woo! \o/
 * popey tickles Oli``` 
<hamitron> I got a feeling I will struggle for bandwidth
<hamitron> so not gonna bother
<hamitron> ;)
<jacobw> I heard a really interesting satire on BBC R4 between 11.30am and 12.00pm
<jacobw> Technology related, a future land where fame, not money, is the currency
<hamitron> karma?
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> that makes nooooooooo seeeeeense
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00yyc83
<jpds> Isn't that what Launchpad karma does?
<ali1234> no, you can't spend karma
<hamitron> that is what I was suggesting
<jpds> ali1234: Yet.
<ali1234> you can spend reputation on stack exchange though
<ali1234> to promote your own questions
<HazRPG> jacobw: not avail. for listening anymore :(
<ali1234> also lp karma decays too quickly to use as a currency
<hamitron> tell that to be people of zimbabwee
<hamitron> ;)
<jacobw> Hehe
<ali1234> it's not exactly the same as inflation
<ali1234> more like the actual money has an expirey date
<hamitron> it is like a tax from the central hub, decaying your assets
<jacobw> Bitcoin is very interesting
 * jacobw wasn't aware of LP karma
<ali1234> i have 0.05 bitcoins
<ali1234> worth about 3p
<nperry> Hummm
<nperry> Stupid windows cloud advert
<ujjain> AlanBell: I now have working VOIP telephony. I figured youÂ´d find that interesting. :p
<ujjain> What is a good scary movie with spirits?
<AlanBell> Cocktail?
<AlanBell> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094889/
<ujjain> thatÂ´s a romance?
<AlanBell> what a waste of a good pun
<AlanBell> never mind ujjain, yes, cocktail is not about ghosts
<ujjain> hehe sorry man! I will try to good-pun next time :p
<DJones> AlanBell: That was very quick and very good, and I would describe Tom Cruise as scary
<popey> anyone on natty fancy confirming (or not) bug 744497
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 744497 could not be found
<czajkowski> what is it ?
<mgdm> Whisky Galore has plenty of spirits, though it's not that scary
<ali1234> private again?
<czajkowski> nope doesnt exist..
<DJones> Maybe its a bug that popey hasn't filed enough bugs
<popey> bah, no its private
<popey> czajkowski: private bugs show as non-extsitent
 * AlanBell thinks the private==doesn't exist thing is silly when the numbers are sequential anyhow
<popey> :(
<popey> indeed
<popey> also one of the bots still knows
<popey> if you know which one to ask
<MartijnVdS> popey: you're a bot?!
<mgdm> It would explain a great many things ;)
<popey> 21:29:24 <ubot4`> Bug 744497 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/744497 is private
<popey> see
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 744497 not found
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 744497 could not be found
<hamitron> loads of information from it, nothing useful? :)
<popey> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/67533473/Screenshot-2.png
<popey> can you see that?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> a red vlc?
<popey> oops
<popey> i had the wrong number :)
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-utils/+bug/744479
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 744479 in gnome-utils (Ubuntu) "Screenshots tinted orange" [Undecided,New]
<popey> i am failing tonight
<popey> anyway, confirm that please :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: time to replace the  batteries :)
<gord> heh really?
<MartijnVdS> popey: I don't get a "Select area" option
<popey> wut
<popey> how are you starting the screenshot tool?
<AlanBell> Hey bartender, know how to make a red eye?
<gord> its a feature! makes your images more pink
<AlanBell> or an orangeeye for popey
<MartijnVdS> popey: printscreen button.. same effect as "gnome-screenshot" on the command line
<popey> no
<popey> it isnt
<popey> you need to start from the menu
<MartijnVdS> ah.. -i
<popey> $ gnome-screenshot --interactive
<popey> or that
<popey> AlanBell: comedy glands working overtime this evening
 * daubers considers getting a spotify account again 
<popey> AlanBell: did you see the chicken thing I posted earlier?
<popey> I heard an advert for it earlier
<MartijnVdS> popey: yes, those are orange :)
<gord> popey, is that inside compiz? if so, make sure to test in metacity/favouritenoncompositingmanager
<gord> i'v seen compiz and gnome-screenshot have the oddest falling outs this cycle
<MartijnVdS> compiz has been VERY broken
<MartijnVdS> still is
<popey> yup
<popey> compiz only
<popey> just tested in metacity, you dont get a filled in box, just a box
<MartijnVdS> at work we use bitkeeper.. when I use the graphical commit tool, compiz crashes
<AlanBell> popey: is it the same problem as PCpro found at 2:56 http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2011/02/10/live-blog-running-pc-pro-on-ubuntu/
<popey> no
<gord> okay then, also affects compiz and one of the compiz bug fixers will take a look :)
<popey> thats a known bug
<AlanBell> I did see the chicken thing, thanks for that
<popey> also affects project?
<gord> yup
<popey> how do i choose compiz?
<AlanBell> will be at a customer meeting I think with theopensourcerer
<popey> this interface sucks
<gord> you'll get a little search thing no?
<popey> no
<popey> asks for url or email of bug contact
<ujjain> no tv and no beer make homer go crazy - what is this a parody of?
<AlanBell> ujjain: "all work and no play makes jack a dull boy"
<gord> eh, why is launchpad doing that...
<gord> geez
<ujjain> AlanBell: ah tnx! :)
<popey> "also affects distribution"
<popey> is the way
<popey> I blame gmb
<gord> popey, actually also affects project -> under where it says Project you can select "choose another project"
<popey> ah
<gord> then you get the search interface, because it was set to gnome and lp  thought it was all upstream i guess
<popey> oops
<popey> is it okay now?
<gord> seems good to me
<popey> oh crud, I did metacity --replace, now the panels and everything is gone I can't restart compiz :)
<gord> alt-f... oh wait
<popey> whohoo
<popey> ctrl+alt+n
<gord> during development we all have a shortcut on our desktop that runs unity because when you crash it, you end up in that situation all the time ;)
<popey> oh golly, compiz is so much slower than metacity
<popey> now I remember why i never ran compiz before natty
<MartijnVdS> too bad metacity is so flickery
<AlanBell> I find compiz to be much faster than metacity
<ali1234> it's slower for me
<ali1234> but the effects make it feel faster
<gord> you can have mixed results, right now compiz is slow with two things really, alt-tab and focusing
<ali1234> it makes firefox really slow though
<ali1234> but that's because of nvidia driver
<popey> :(
<MartijnVdS> \o/ nvidia :(
<daubers> ARGGHHHHH
<daubers> How the hell do I close something that's hiding itself on the sound menu when I hit the cross?
<ali1234> i have a theory that they don't open their driver because then people would see all the cheesy hacks to make certain games run 5% faster
<popey> File -> Quit
<daubers> popey: Doesn't exist in this app :)
<popey> killall
<popey> lol
<daubers> Was hoping not to resort to killall :(
<ali1234> heh, menus are old fashioned
<ali1234> you're not supposed to quit anything ever
<ali1234> just leave it all running
<gord> i was having that problem daubers, banshee?
<daubers> But I need to quit it so I can open the account on another box!
<ali1234> cos you only run gwibber and chrome right?
<gord> didn't figure it out, just left it running
<daubers> gord: Spotify linux client
<popey> it does have a quit
<popey> File -> Exit
<ali1234> the spotify tray menu has a "exit" when you right click it
<ali1234> the windows one does anyway
<daubers> Hmm.. That menu doesn't go up to the bar when you full screen it though
<daubers> *confused*
<ali1234> you do still have a tray applet right?
<popey> good isnt it
<popey> QT
<popey> nope ali1234
<daubers> popey: I do like the fact I get the buttons on the left AND the right with it too
<daubers> Do I go over -> or over <-! Choice!!!
<AlanBell> no room for the windicators when that happens
<gord> are the buttons in chromium on the right still?
<gord> i guess not if you enable system decoration
<hamitron> daubers: not good enough, I want some in teh centre too ;)
<ali1234> hamitron: install kde, you can have that
<hamitron> :))
<ali1234> they have a drag and drop UI that lets you move any button anywhere on the window title
<hamitron> never liked kde :/
<ali1234> kde is pretty horrible
<ali1234> you can do that thing with the buttons, but you can't have a panel that matches the window decorations
<ali1234> so much for configuration
<daubers> http://www.daubers.co.uk/~matt/choice.jpg
<daubers> popey: Also confirs your bug :)
<popey> :)
<ali1234> wow, it looks exactly like the windows version
<popey> i dont see that decoration
<daubers> Really? How odd
<hamitron> acoustica isn't new
<daubers> my unity is acting odd this evening though. Can't decide which windows on top properly so teh global menu keeps giving me just terminators one
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/spotify.png
<gord> heh spotify on linux really goes for that osx look
<popey> odd orangeness
<mgdm> gord: it does on everything
<gord> reminds me of quicktime back in the day
<daubers> Hmmm
<ali1234> hmm you know what that looks like... when you drag a box...
<daubers> Might just reload gnome and let it restart unity stuffs
<ali1234> with the orange border
<ali1234> is it taking the screenshot before clearing the "selection" box?
<popey> looks that way
<popey> BECAUSE THE WINDOW MANAGER IS TOO SLOW!
<popey> probably
<daubers> popey: Interestingly restarting gnome made that decorator go away
<popey> "interestingly" you say :)
<daubers> heh
<ali1234> it's a race condition then, not a WM problem per se
<popey> fair
<ali1234> gord: the windows version looks exactly the same, at least it does in wine?
<gord> ali1234, i'm sure it does, i'v never seen it, i wasn't suggesting that it looks different than anywhere else
<daubers> Urgh, getting lots of "Looks like there was a problem" boxes now
<daubers> and the STUPID KEYBOARD THING STILL PUTS ME INTO AMERICAN GAH
<popey> dpkg-source: info: applying 06_fix_ftbfs.patch
<popey> ho ho ho
<gord> what the hell is that?
<gord> i get it on maverick too
<daubers> gord: Murder worthy, thats what it is
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I get the keyboard thing as well
<gord> anyone who can fix that for me gets a free cake
<daubers> double cake from me
<daubers> with a bottle of whiskey on top
<daubers> I have noticed it tries to change it on an app by app basis
<popey> -        MAINTAINER_CFLAGS="-Werror -Wall -Wshadow -Wcast-align -Wno-uninitialized -Wformat-security -Winit-self"
<popey> +        MAINTAINER_CFLAGS="-Wall -Wshadow -Wcast-align -Wno-uninitialized -Wformat-security -Winit-self"
<popey> *chortle*
<gord> don't get it on my desktop, but do on the netbook/laptop
<gord> popey, what project is that in?
<popey> gnome-utils
<popey> also
<popey>  /* THERE ARE NO FEATURE REQUESTS ALLOWED */
<popey>  /* IF YOU WANT YOUR OWN FEATURE -- WRITE THE DAMN THING YOURSELF (-: */
<popey>  /* MAYBE I LIED... -jrb */
<gord> i wonder if they use vala - you have to not use -Werror with vala because vala likes to use errors a lot
<gord> it thinks errors are a feature
<daubers> gord: Can you pastebin the file ~/.dmrc from your laptop/desktop?
<daubers> I smell an experiment
 * daubers bodges a config file
<gord> daubers, difference is that  the netbook has Layout=us instead of Layout=gb and the desktop has two extra lines
<gord> Langlist=en_GB:en
<gord> LCMess=en_GB.utf8
<gord> changed my netbook to be the same as my desktop, maybe it'll fix things
<daubers> gord: if I take the layou line out of mine the stupid thing works properly \o/
<daubers> Just tested it with a new user as well, the new user doesn't get the layout= line
<gord> daubers, we must tell *everybody*
<daubers> question is.... why the hell doesn't the settings thing replace that line properly?
<daubers> Is there a bug on this somewhere?
<gord> daubers, sounds like a package got upgraded and something changed, leaving the layout line in/broken at some point
<daubers> gord: gnome docs for gdm suggest that file should exist. Not very clear on that line though
<czajkowski> AlanBell: what date is the farnham beers
<daubers> gord: Loosk like it's been fixed...
<daubers> bug 546785
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 546785 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Changing keyboard layout in control-center should update default gdm layout in .dmrc" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546785
<AlanBell> czajkowski: friday 15th April
<czajkowski> AlanBell: good thanks
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 31st 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night: 16th April 21:00 | We're jammin' http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/687/detail/
<daubers> Hmm.. actually... looks like we're into another "It should do this, no this, no this" argument in that bug thread
 * AlanBell wonders if more people can get themselves to http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/687/detail/
<popey> daubers: which bug?
<popey> oh that
<daubers> AlanBell: Hmmm... not sure I'd get permission from the wifey this weekend
<AlanBell> better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission *
<AlanBell> * with exceptions
<daubers> AlanBell: The sofa's not that comfy
<willy_1977> AlanBell: I'm in daubers camp, almost certainly wouldn't get away with approaching it either way ;)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: heh, try {} it!
<popey> i think i may have found the problem with the coloured tinge in gnome-screenshot
<popey> anyone fancy helping me?
<daubers> popey: Go on...
<popey> i think i have found a patch actually
<popey> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2011-March/msg03805.html
<czajkowski> AlanBell: hmm not many just you and me it seems ;(
 * AlanBell is scared
<daubers> gord: Reading the gnome bugzilla, it's not going to be fixed as GDM doens't allow changing the keyboard layout anymore
<daubers> (for gnome 3)
<AlanBell> maybe we should change things a bit and make it a virtual jam
<daubers> Does gnome3 have a different GDM?
<AlanBell> on IRC and mumble
<popey> er
<gord> gnome 3's motto should be "its not our problem"
<willy_1977> AlanBell: One of the things I'm wondering if I could do some sessions like that midlands based
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye that might be better
<popey> I have another bug i need confirming :(
<willy_1977> gord: gnome-ptfe-3.0
<AlanBell> willy_1977: short answer, is yes, you can
<czajkowski> popey: what are you doing over there!
<popey> can someone open firefox 4
<czajkowski> not installed
<popey> and open a big page like http://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2011-March/msg03805.html
<daubers> popey: yup
<willy_1977> AlanBell: wouldn't mind chewing that fat on that one at some point.
<popey> try and put the mouse near the top of his mail and drag down
<popey> does the page scroll?
<popey> (when you hit the bottom)
<marxjohnson> popey: no
<popey> do it from the bottom upwards
<popey> (missus)
<willy_1977> AlanBell: now if you do go virtual I may be able to get an hour or two on the 2nd to help out...
<AlanBell> willy_1977: http://ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/
<marxjohnson> popey: yes!
<marxjohnson> how odd
 * popey looks for a bug
<AlanBell> yay, marxjohnson o/
<marxjohnson> it works if its not in fullscreen
<marxjohnson> howdy alanbell
<daubers> popey: I don't get that issue...
<popey> daubers: fullscreen?
<willy_1977> AlanBell: spotted that earlier today and got myself on it ;)
<daubers> Ah, if I go all the way to the top and then down again I do
<AlanBell> great, good tool for finding people in your area
<daubers> popey: only in full screen
<AlanBell> the google maps *might* make a return to Launchpad at some point
<willy_1977> yeah, great idea - duly noted bigcalm is just up the road in newport.
<bigcalm> ?
<willy_1977> ooO unless I've read that wrong... hang on...
 * bigcalm looks in due to nick highlight
<bigcalm> Newport, Shropshire :)\
<bigcalm> Not Gwent
 * popey tickles bigcalm 
<popey> marxjohnson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/744580
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 744580 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Firefox doesn't auto scroll when selecting content downwards" [Undecided,New]
 * bigcalm disolves into a bubbly mess
<popey> fancy confirming pls?
<willy_1977> bigcalm - Hednesford, Staffs
<willy_1977> so I reckon 40mins from you
<AlanBell> bigcalm: well don't do that in the bath again
<marxjohnson> popey: do i just say "me too" or do I have to do something fancy?
<popey> fancy pants!
<popey> marxjohnson: change the status from new to confimed
<popey> and leave a comment
<bigcalm> willy_1977: Aha. I'm new to the county (1.5 years), so don't know all much in the area
<bigcalm> willy_1977: you're right, 40 mins away
<willy_1977> bigcalm: I like Newport, Shrops. nice place.
<bigcalm> I keep forgetting how close I live to Staffordshire
<marxjohnson> popey: done
<popey> thank you!
<willy_1977> definitely, you're closer to our cunty town than me I reckon.
<willy_1977> lol
<daubers> !language
<willy_1977> county*
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<bigcalm> I'm sure you meant county town :)
<popey> *snort*
<AlanBell> and the typo of the week award goes to  . . . willy_1977 \o/
<willy_1977> woot!
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Ah, I didn't see the county until typing it myself
 * bigcalm slithers back to some 2001 PHP :(
<popey> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2011-March/msg03805.html
<popey> how do i turn that into a patch I can apply?
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<popey> nn
<bigcalm> Night brobostigon
<willy_1977> brobostigon: g'night.
<marxjohnson> popey: copy and paste into gedit?
<brobostigon> good night bigcalm and willy_1977
<marxjohnson> night brobostigon
<popey> then what? :)
<ali1234> popey: save the html, git apply whatever.html
<popey> oh
<bigcalm> marxjohnson: popey means into a format sutable for patch
<popey> i do
<brobostigon> night marxjohnson
<popey> so i can "patch -p0 < foo.patch"
<ali1234> probably
<marxjohnson> ah sorry
<ali1234> it's supposed to be applied with git though
<popey> I want to convert it
<ali1234> why?
<bigcalm> Why not? :)
<bigcalm> Does everything have to have a reason in life?
<ali1234> well, because git is the best way to manage such things
<popey> because I'm not using git
<marxjohnson> if you just copy all the preformatted text, then save it as a plain text file, you can apply it with patch or anything that takes unified diff
<popey> I am taking the source thats currently in the repo
<bigcalm> And if you're not using git, then what? :)
<popey> and patching against it to see if it works
<ali1234> bigcalm: then you should be
<marxjohnson> I always use patch even though I use git, then just commit with git ;-)
<bigcalm> ali1234: NEVER!
<ali1234> oh, so you want to apply it with quilt or something?
<popey> 22:36:18 < popey> so i can "patch -p0 < foo.patch"
<ali1234> marxjohnson: that doesn't preserve author and commit log
<daubers> popey: I'm not sure the one in the repo's can take the patch :)
<ali1234> popey: (22:30:05) ali1234: probably
<popey> *sigh*
<marxjohnson> ali1234: good call, I only ever apply patches I make myself  though
<popey> forget it
<marxjohnson> popey: -p1 with that patch
 * bigcalm hugs popey
<daubers> From git apply I get : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586628/
<willy_1977> is that saying it's moved on since the patch was created?
<willy_1977> not patch unified diff I mean.
<Azelphur> I wonder if there are any decent netbook tablets with nvidia ion in them
<Azelphur> and if they'd be capable of minecraft xD
<popey> what is a netbook tablet?
<gord> minecraft won't run on ion
<gord> oh wait sorry yes it will
<Azelphur> popey: a netbook that can be converted into a tablet, like the inspiron duo
<gord> thinking tegra
<popey> asus have one dont they?
<popey> or acer
<gord> minecraft is mostly cpu limited though
<Azelphur> gord: I see
<marxjohnson> http://tinyurl.com/6l6pgrn nom :-)
<Azelphur> popey: not sure I see anything with ion
<Azelphur> at least googles not being favourable :(
<marxjohnson> right, beddy byes for me, train to catch in the morn
 * AlanBell changes the global jam
<AlanBell> it will now be marmalade
<marxjohnson> nn all
<daubers> night marxjohnson
<ali1234> !java
<lubotu3> To install a Java runtime on Ubuntu on 10.04 LTS and newer, see http://tinyurl.com/2ffg7cc -  For the Sun Java products and browser plugin, search for the sun-java6- packages in the !partner repository on Lucid (which must be enabled), or !multiverse repository on older releases.
<daubers> ali1234: Never been a fan of marmalade
<AlanBell> so on Saturday, during the day we will have an online IRC hack day of some sort, plus audio via mumble
<AlanBell> we might go so far as to have an agenda of some kind
<ali1234> ok i give up how do i install java on natty?
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/globaljam2011
<AlanBell> ali1234: sun java isn't in the partner repo yet
<AlanBell> might never get there
<ali1234> fail
<hamitron> AlanBell: never?
<daubers> urgh, bugzilla sucks
 * popey has openjdk java
<Hazmaster> heh, not use to irssi :/
<gord> just install openjdk?
<hamitron> popey: minecraft works on it?
<gord> if you try and run java on a cli, it'll give you a bunch of options
<Hazmaster> heh, and now my normal IRC client has just logged in finally :P (typical)
<ali1234> it give all the *-headless options
<popey> hamitron: yes
<hamitron> sorted then
<hamitron> :)
 * daubers goes to bed
<ali1234> i would guess openjdk-6-jre-headless is probably only good for running java CLI apps?
<HazRPG> daubers: nite dude
<webpigeon> ali1234, or apps which were designed during the French revolution, i'm guessing
<willy_1977> popey: this gnome-utils diff (dog with a bone I know) according to the documentation all he's added is a timeout... I can carry on looking at this if it's of use?
<popey> I marked a link to the patch on the bug report
<popey> feel free :)
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-utils/+bug/743176
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 743176 in gnome-utils (Ubuntu) "Pink layer on taken screenshots (gnome-screenshot)" [Low,Confirmed]
<Hazmaster> hmm, this is really driving me bananas lol
<Hazmaster> I'm having a little trouble with ipv6 :(
<willy_1977> popey: if I just assign the gnome-utils(ubuntu) to me that's enough isn't it?
<popey> well, only if you plan on fixing it :)
<willy_1977> I'll give it a go, no harm in trying - can always fire questions out if I get stuck I guess.
<Hazmaster> I've managed to get ipv6 to tunnel in through to my server, and it can ping6 ipv6.google.com (great!) - however the issue i'm having is using radvd
<Hazmaster> after a bit of fiddling I got it to start, but I can't seem to get any other client on my server to be able to get an IPv6 :(
<Hazmaster> anyone have any experience with this?
<willy_1977> well I'm off to bed - will catch up tomorrow; for those that do enjoy the sleep :)
<ali1234> ~info gnome-utils natty
<ali1234> hmm whatever
<ali1234> willy_1977: so yeah, the patch is by the gnome-screenshot maintainer... therefore it's going to turn up in ubuntu eventually no matter what (well, unless you make a better patch and send it to gnome)
<bigcalm> How do you use a non default ssh port with rsync?
<popey> http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=rsync+over+ssh+port+specified&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gl=uk
<bigcalm> How do you use a non default ssh port with rsync?
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/view/2363/rsync-over-ssh-via-non-default-ssh-port
<bigcalm> Google answered my own question :)
<bigcalm> And with that behind a screen, I'm off to bed!
<bigcalm> Tatty hoo
<popey> nn cuddles
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Awww, you're a sweetie
<directhex> i'm tired. packaging complex things is tiring.
<bigcalm> Remind me to book that Friday and Monday off :)
<popey> ok!
<bigcalm> \o/
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 31st 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night: 16th April 21:00 | We're jammin' http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/687/detail/ | B
<popey> bah
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 31st 21:00 GMT #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz: 16th April 21:00 | We're jammin' http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/687/detail/ | Bigcalm! Book that friday/monday
<popey> yay
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-29
<Hazmaster> exit
<Hazmaster> hmm, its going to take some time getting use to irssi i see
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] UDS Sponsorship Deadline Tomorrow! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/03/28/uds-sponsorship-deadline-tomorrow/
<popey> gord: open ccsm, go to window decorator, disable window decoration, it kills unity
<popey> i have to have an ssh session option to unity --reset
<popey> directhex: what has boycott boy chosen then after his bt boycott?
<ali1234> bt as in british telecom?
<popey> yes
<popey> i see directhex discussing it on twitter
<ali1234> a fine choice
<directhex> popey, he hasn't! he signed an 18 month contract up front, and NOW is complaining they're an evil monopoly and should be boycotted
<HazRPG> heh I boycotted BT for their interwebs for years
<ali1234> not really a monopoly any more... they are evil though
<directhex> ali1234, not legally a monopoly in a Market 3 area!
<directhex> ali1234, not on an exchange with 8 LLU providers, plus virgin, plus all 5 mobile networks!
<ali1234> yeah, unbundling and all that
<HazRPG> \o
<shauno> o/
<HazRPG> shauno: \o/
<HazRPG> shauno: IPv6 hates me :(
<shauno> I thought you were getting somewhere yesterday?  what'd you break?
<HazRPG> it worked as a thing on one computer
<HazRPG> radvd
<HazRPG> (raaaaaaDVD as I'm calling it)
<HazRPG> doesn't!
<HazRPG> shauno: wow... so we're all compiled back together again (server splits)
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> popey: hi
<HazRPG> hi
<kaushal> is there a way to know someone has installed squid-deb-proxy server inside LAN ?
<kaushal> I am still facing the issue
<kaushal> inside the office
<kaushal> HazRPG: hi
<HazRPG> erm
<HazRPG> I'm not sure about that one dude
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> I have shutdown squid-deb-proxy on server
<HazRPG> oh, is this the updating problem?
<kaushal> yes
<HazRPG> could you pastebin it again please?
<kaushal> sure
<HazRPG> :)
<kaushal> HazRPG: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586729/
<HazRPG> thanks
<kaushal> np
<HazRPG> can ya go through it quickly what you/people have done/suggested so far? (so that im not just repeating something that someone else has already tried)
<kaushal> where ?
<HazRPG> hmm, reading it like that sounds wrong
<HazRPG> I mean what you have tried so far?
<kaushal> when i am out of office network it worked
<HazRPG> and what has people suggested?
<kaushal> no one has suggested anything
<HazRPG> ah
<kaushal> hence the question :)
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> right, lemmie see
<HazRPG> im guessing from all the amd64 references it's a 64-bit machine install
<HazRPG> and that its maverick (10.10)
<kaushal> yes
<HazRPG> right, erm... does this command fail: ping in.archive.ubuntu.com -c 5
<HazRPG> also, why is it using in.archive.ubuntu.com anyways? I thought archive.ubuntu.com was the default :S
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586730/
<kaushal> ok
<HazRPG> hmm, so its not having trouble reaching the domain...
<kaushal> HazRPG: is there a way to remove in ?
<kaushal> I mean "in"
<kaushal> I tried :%s/^//.in//g
<HazRPG> sure... gui way to do it is via update manager
<HazRPG> click settings->Ubuntu Software tab-> change the download drop-down to a different server
<kaushal> ok
<HazRPG> either pick "main server" if it isn't already... or pick "other..." and select one closer to you
<HazRPG> then try and see if it'll update then
<kaushal> HazRPG: still the same
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> wait, you said it updates fine outside of the office?
<kaushal> yes
<kaushal> I am suspecting the squid-deb-proxy server
<kaushal> but someone inside our office might have installed it
<kaushal> instead of just installing squid-deb-proxy-client
<kaushal> HazRPG: is there a way to find ?
<HazRPG> looking into it now for ya dude
<shauno> what does the command "avahi-browse -kprt _apt_proxy._tcp" return?
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586732/
<shauno> that 3rd line is what's getting you; deb-squid-proxy is running on 172.26.0.23
<shauno> I've a funny feeling you need to change allowed-networks-src.conf on the machine that's running the proxy
<shauno> actually, no, nm; 172.26.x.x fits that
<shauno> but either way, that proxy either needs to work, or go away :)
<HazRPG> sorry, I'm still messing with ipv6 stuff on this end
<HazRPG> shauno: guessing your trying your wit at it now? (your probably the better man for the job in all honesty)
<shauno> HazRPG: was just trying to figure out if the apt-proxy really is running or not.  avahi thinks it is, apparently
<shauno> I'd be interested to try: http_proxy=http://172.26.0.23:8000 wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/main/binary-amd64/Packages.bz2
<shauno> it'll try to grab the package list via the same proxy apt is trying to use, but should give you a more descriptive failure message
<shauno> (all apt's telling you is that the reply is 45 bytes and makes no sense to apt)
<kaushal> shauno: http_proxy=http://172.26.0.23:8000 ?
<kaushal> shauno: not sure i understand that
<kaushal> when i do wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/main/binary-amd64/Packages.bz2
<kaushal> it works fine
<shauno> if you put it before the wget command, wget will try to use that proxy
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> it works fine
<shauno> could you pastebin what wget output when it did so?
<kaushal> sure
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586740/
<shauno> (want to check it is going via the proxy, and it isn't getting a 45byte file)
<shauno> Packages.bz2' saved [45/45]  <= 45 bytes again
<kaushal> ok
<shauno> could you 'cat Packages.bz2' ?  (don't worry, I strongly suspect it's not going to be bzip'd binary)
<kaushal> sure
<kaushal> <html><body><h1>It works!</h1></body></html>
<shauno> :(  it lies!
<MartijnVdS> that's a vhost problem
<MartijnVdS> usually
<kaushal> so any way to fix it ?
<AlanBell> wrong proxy port?
<shauno> 8000's what avahi is claiming
<shauno> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586732/  is where apt is getting the proxy details from
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586741/
<shauno> (unless I'm reading http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~squid-deb-proxy-developers/squid-deb-proxy/trunk/view/head:/apt-avahi-discover  very wrong)
<kaushal> shauno: shall i pastebin the /etc/squid-deb-proxy/squid-deb-proxy.conf ?
<shauno> can't hurt; have you changed it from the packaged version?
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586745/
<kaushal> shauno: nope
<AlanBell> kaushal: so where do you have an unconfigured apache sitting about?
<AlanBell> localhost? the proxy?
<kaushal> AlanBell: please give me a moment
<popey> morning all
<shauno> o/
<popey> sounds like squid isnt running because there is already an apache running on 8000 on that box
<shauno> does squid log requests somewhere?
<popey> yes
<shauno> so we could check squid's log to see if http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586740/ did hit it
<shauno> (I'm curious if he is hitting squid, and squid is fetching 'It works' from the wrong place; or if he's hitting a webserver instead of squid)
<popey>  /var/log/squid or /var/log/squid-deb-proxy
<shauno> I'm also quickly reaching the limit of how many times I can say 'squid' before it ceases to seem like a real word.
<AlanBell> kaushal: what does http://172.26.0.23:8000 in a browser look like (and for anyone else, what is squid supposed to look like?)
<AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning AlanBell
<popey> i think we have lost him
<ging> emm calamari
<popey> yummy
<ging> for breakfast
<ging> bet they eat it somewhere
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: AlanBell czajkowski interesting Digital Surrey evening in April... http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1494087857/
<kaushal> popey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586747/
<kaushal> popey: also shall i pastebin the access.log under /var/log/squid-deb-proxy
<kaushal> i get hits
<kaushal> dont know why its not working
<popey> kaushal: does /etc/squid-deb-proxy/allowed-networks-src.conf look sane for your network?
<popey> also mirror-dstdomain.acl in that same directory
<kaushal> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, did AlanBell fall of the internet again?
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/of/off
 * AlanBell checks
<popey> http://pastebin.com/abg958sD is mine
<AlanBell> nope, don't think I did
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
 * popey registers for that event
 * AlanBell spots "there will be cake" and registers
<AlanBell> ooh I might have been on Radio 5 live this morning
<AlanBell> (not live)
<TheOpenSourcerer> How many more Alans could register in succession? http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1494087857/
<popey> :)
<awilkins> Hell is other peoples code
<kaushal> popey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586751/
<popey> morning awilkins
<awilkins> Morning.
<Myrtti> Would be interesting to know what is the volume of human sinuses
<popey> kaushal: have you installed squid-deb-proxy-client on your client end?
<awilkins> I can pack three metres of paraffin soaked ribbon gauze into each nostril - and that doesnt inculde sinuses
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586752/
<popey> kaushal: what does /usr/share/squid-deb-proxy-client/apt-avahi-discover contain on the client?
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586755/
<daubers> Morning
<popey> kaushal: run that file
<popey>  /usr/share/squid-deb-proxy-client/apt-avahi-discover
<popey> you should get one line back
<popey> http://:/
<popey> or
<popey> http://10.10.10.124:8000/
<popey> something like the above
<kaushal> http://172.26.0.23:8000/
<popey> great
<popey> so avahi is working
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Not sure if you still use drobo but might be interesting: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2011/03/drobo-review-1.ars
<popey> so what happens if (on that same box) you do "sudo apt-get update"
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i only use my drobo to backup my macbook pro.
<popey> isolating the evil
<kaushal> popey: are you talking about 172.26.0.23 ?
<popey> kaushal: i am talking about the client
<AlanBell> heh
<kaushal> ok
<popey> run "sudo apt-get update" on the client
<popey> not the server
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> its the same
<popey> same in what way?
<popey> pastebin?
<kaushal> sure
<daubers> Hmm.. how can you ninja theme a blog post without it ending up sounding racist
<kaushal> popey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586763/
<shauno> daubers: gratuitous use of silence.
<daubers> shauno: Not very good at getting you point across though :(
<awilkins> Do it in the style of like, totally flipping out and uppercutting a kid?
<shauno> ninjas would disagree.  getting the 'point' across without making a noise is the whole point ;)
<awilkins> Or doing the dangle-a-thread-and-pour-poison-syrup-down-it thing.
<shauno> personally, it'd either be in the third person, so you're describing what can't be seen/heard.  or just go full on Banzai and suffer the fallout :D
<shauno> (actually, fallout may be a poor choice of words currently.  'consequences' I guess)
<popey> kaushal: have you pastebinned the access.log from /var/log/squid-deb-proxy/ ?
<popey> I cant see it
<awilkins> Fallout... And they are holding back Simpsons episodes with nuclear power disaster references....
<kaushal> popey: nope
<kaushal> let me pastebin it
<kaushal> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/586765/
<popey> kaushal: whats the IP of your client?
<kaushal> 172.26.1.29
<popey> kaushal: is there an apache running on the server?
<kaushal> popey: please give me a moment
<kaushal> nope
<popey> i dont know where "It Works" is coming from
<shauno> is it normal for all those log entries to be marked text/html? most the URIs they claim to be hitting are application/x-bzip2
 * popey checks his
<popey> http://pastebin.com/5zS9t9j6
<popey> thats my acces_log
<popey> well, a bit of it
<shauno> yours works fine I assume?
<popey> yes
<shauno> you're getting a load of TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304
<shauno> 304 is Not Modified, which makes total sense
<shauno> his are all 200's .. http 'ok'
<shauno> and all text/html, where yours look accurate (text for translations, app/bzip for Packages.bz2, nadda where no changes were returned)
<shauno> there's not another proxy between apt-proxy and the destination is there?
<popey> kaushal: you haven't installed squid-deb-proxy-client on the server have you?
<shauno> (eg, apt->deb-squid-proxy->mystery meat->archive.ubuntu)
<hoover> morning all
<shauno> deb-proxy shouldn't hit itself, but there is a second squid instance running in  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586747/  which could be a concern
<popey> maybe some iptables trying to transparently proxy?
<popey> kaushal: have you done anything with iptables on this box (the server)
 * popey tickles czajkowski with http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1494087857/
<DJones> Morning all
<kaushal> popey: please give me a moment
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586772/
<DJones> popey: What was the website you've previously recommended for the cheaper thinkpads
<popey> looks like they have shutdown
<DJones> Ah well, never mind, I'll keep looking for a laptop then
<popey> kaushal: remove squid-deb-proxy-client from the server, it should not be installed
<popey> kaushal: also, see my other questions about iptables and apache?
<shauno> I can't figure out why it's giving the right IP for archive., but hitting something else.  most curious
<popey> i suspect iptables
<AlanBell> unless the it works is coming from archive somehow
<popey> 08:53 < kaushal> I am using iptables and applying rules at command line
<popey> 08:53 < kaushal> after setting rules i did iptables-save and when i do iptables -L
<popey> 08:57 < kaushal> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-ports 3128
<popey> 09:14 < kaushal> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-ports 3128
<popey> ^^
<popey> [SLAM]
<popey> case closed
<popey> :D
<shauno> hah, score.  so what's on 3128?  (please, please be a misconfigured apache)
<popey> (or maybe not)
<popey> probably apache in proxy mode
<shauno> it's not his second squid, he has that on 4004
<popey> we dont know whats changed since that conversation tho
<shauno> so far it's making my home setup look clean & tidy :)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: at those digital surrey things do people have name badges? :)
<kaushal> popey: please give me a moment
<MooDoo> hello all
<smittix> Morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you smittix ?
<smittix> Not too bad, hows you?
<MooDoo> smittix: yeah i'm ok thanks, shutting down facebook for a few weeks :D
<smittix> MooDoo: I deactivated my account a while back now :/
<MooDoo> smittix: i did, but like a rash it kept coming back :)
<oimon> any android owners discover that their phone turned itself on last night? wife & I both turned phones off and the both turned on around 6am today (no alarms in use)..weird
<MooDoo> oimon: not here, then again i don't turn mine off
<davmor2> oimon: are you running an official version of 2.2.1 on your phone?
<oimon> davmor2: yes
<oimon> on HTC Desire
<JGJones> oimon, Never happened to me. Sleepwalking? :-)
<davmor2> oimon: that could be your issue,  although it only reboots here not switch off fullstop
<oimon> both were defeintely off at 10pm
<davmor2> morning all by the way
<DJones> oimon: Desire HD here, no problem with it switching off last night
<smittix> MooDoo: heh, I had to, I was sick of reading people's problems
<DJones> oimon: sorry, just reread that, mine doesn't get switched off, so i wouldn't notice it switching on
<oimon> DJones: leaving it on seems to be a popular thing
<DJones> oimon: Yes, I just charge overnight on the bedside cabinet
<oimon> sounds quite close to your head
<DJones> About a foot away, but on silent
<oimon> i was amazed at the number of people who relied on iphone alarms after the last 2 DST bugs
<tugrik> last 2?  Was there another one last weekend or did I miss one from before?
<kaushal> popey: back again
<tugrik> ( "good morning" btw )
<MartijnVdS> tugrik: iphone alarm has been buggy for at least a year
<kaushal> sorry could not continue with the discussion
<oimon> tugrik: , yes another problem at the weekend,
<shauno> odd, I didn't notice any problems this weekend  (I did rig up a plan B tho)
<kaushal> so i have a gateway which runs squid server and shorewall
<kaushal> I have setup squid-deb-proxy on a server which is behind the gateway
<kaushal> i cannot install squid-deb-proxy on the gateway since its 9.04 server
<kaushal> so i have set it up inside a lan which is 172.26.0.23
<kaushal> so on server which runs squid-deb-proxy
<popey> kaushal: the problem is almost certainly because you have iptables configured to forward port 80 on that box to 3128
<kaushal> oh ok
<kaushal> you mean on gateway ?
<popey> i dont know what boxes, I've just noticed in the past you've setup iptables to forward port 80 to 3128
<kaushal> yes on the gateway it is
<shauno> I'm curious why wget works and squid doesn't, if the gateway's proxying transparently
<kaushal> but not on the squid-deb-proxy server
<oimon> kaushal: probably the best thing to do is, dump the output of iptables-save into pastebin, and also draw a picture of the network
<MartijnVdS> drawing pictures \o/
<oimon> otherwise it's just guesswork
<popey> +1
<oimon> and also the squid config and any other relevant configs. since that's what an engineer would look at if he visisted
<shauno> long-term, I'd consider moving the gateway to 10.04 too.  9.04 is end-of-life'd, so you've got a box in a critical position that's no longer guaranteed security updates
<kaushal> popey: is there a squid-deb-proxy debian package available for 9.04 ?
<kaushal> its 10.04 and further release ?
<kaushal> shauno: makes sense
<oimon> 10.04 is a long term support release
<oimon> it will last longer than 10.10 support
<kaushal> shauno: so on 10.04 i can install squid-deb-proxy ?
<shauno> that's why I suggest 10.04.  5 years support in a server role, and squid-deb-proxy is available
<popey> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=squid-deb-proxy
<shauno> kaushal: yes
<oimon> !info squid-deb-proxy lucid
<lubotu3> squid-deb-proxy (source: squid-deb-proxy): Squid proxy configuration optimized for deb packages. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.3.1.0.1 (lucid), package size 4 kB, installed size 88 kB
<popey> there's not much to it, it could be backported, but 9.04 is old
<shauno> probably not an upgrade you want to do on a whim, but worth thinking about at some stage, since 9.04 ended support last october
<popey> so little point backporting to 9.04
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> so on 10.04 i run transparent proxy squid
<kaushal> and shorewall and samba and postfix
<kaushal> so on this i have to just install squid-deb-proxy ?
<kaushal> I mean if i am upgrading my gateway to 10.04
<shauno> that's what I'd do, personally.  (but tested on a spare machine first, you don't want to play rough with your gateway & mailserver :)
<HazRPG> I came into this convo a lil too late, but what I do is test things on both a VM first, then a spare machine, then migrate - that way you can mess it up all you want and you'll have a pretty good knowledge of what your doing when you actually come to do it
<shauno> more short term, I'd start looking at squid's logs on the gateway to find out why .23 is receiving the wrong files
<popey> kaushal: well, when I originally suggested using squid-deb-proxy I had kinda assumed you were using a supported version of Ubuntu :)
<kaushal> apologies
<kaushal> i would set up a 10.04 gateway
 * daubers gets the skype beating stick out
 * willy_1977_atwor appears to have left irc running at home and can't get no 1 nick choice back yet...
<gord> ghost yourself?
<willy_1977_atwor> gord, ended up doing a release...
<willy_1977_atwor> wonder if ghost would work now... hmmm.
<shauno> ssh home :p
<willy_1977_atwor> shauno, not set up yet... :( I'm new leave me alone :p
<danfish> morning
<danfish> no natty t-shirts in the store yet :(
<willy_1977_atwor> yes good point danfish, good morning hope everyone is as well as can be.
<willy_1977_atwor> shauno, on the ssh thingy... know any good guides to setting it up? or anyone for that matter?
<czajkowski> Aloha
<shauno> willy_1977_atwor: mostly the same as anything else.  install openssh-server, port forward on your router so you can reach it.  the fun is trying to tidy it up so you don't get chinese "visitors" knocking on it all day long
<DJones> !ssh | willy_1977_atwor
<lubotu3> willy_1977_atwor: SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH for client usage. PuTTY is an SSH client for Windows; see: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ for it's homepage. See also !scp (Secure CoPy) and !sshd (Secure SHell Daemon)
<mfraz74> Morning Laura
<DJones> willy_1977_atwor: That first link has a lot of good info in it
<willy_1977_atwor> thanks shauno, DJones
<willy_1977_atwor> morning czajkowski.
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski how are you this fine day?
 * popey pokes czajkowski with http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1494087857/
<HazRPG> shauno: woot!
<HazRPG> shauno: MartijnVdS managed to help show me the errors of my ways with the whole ipv6
<oimon> saw this picture over someone's shoulder on the train and thought it was a narwhal..you have to look closely to see that's not it's horn/spike http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/03/24/article-0-0B504A8100000578-276_306x637.jpg
<czajkowski> MooDoo: like I could lie on the floor and have someone jump up and down on my back
<czajkowski> popey: oh interesting...
 * popey is going
<czajkowski> but in Guilford
<popey> yeah
 * czajkowski looks at trains 
<JamesTait> And it's good morning from me. :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oh dear that good eh!
<oimon> which venue in guildford?
<popey> click the link
<oimon> hey, the stoke pub?
 * oimon knows it well
<oimon> been to wedding reception out the back, that must be where the event is held
<HazRPG> JamesTait: sup dude \o
<JamesTait> Hi HazRPG. :)
<mfraz74> Think the install has hung :(
 * davmor2 volunteers to hit czajkowski back with a lump hammer, but only if it'll help :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: get in the queue
<willy_1977_atwor> :o
<willy_1977_atwor> someone could get hurt doing that.
<MooDoo> willy_1977_atwor: nah :D
<willy_1977_atwor> just watch you don't get your fingers in the way...
<mfraz74> Doesn't it say wear a hard hat on the handles somewhere?
<davmor2> MooDoo: what you have a lump hammer
<MooDoo> davmor2: yup, although i'm quite big, i might just jump on her
<davmor2> MooDoo: that sounds so wrong!
<willy_1977_atwor> I thought this was a family channel you're on about jumping her now... does she not get a say?
<MooDoo> willy_1977_atwor: er on her....be careful :)
<mfraz74> only afterwards
<willy_1977_atwor> :o
<willy_1977_atwor> just to be clear...I do but jest...  no offense meant to anyone...
<MooDoo> willy_1977_atwor: we know :D
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a hug and hopes her poorly back gets better soon
 * willy_1977_atwor is glad
<hoover> hey biggie
<bigcalm> Hi hoover
<MooDoo> davmor2: i know all about back ache, being tall is a pin the neck sometimes :D
<oimon> my predecessor purchased 4 x inspiron XPS laptops with the infamous nvidia chips in..last one has just died after 3yrs. first one died after one year. i don't know how we don't deserve product recalls on those items
<davmor2> MooDoo: it is indeed.  lower back and neck from constantly looking down to talk to people
<MooDoo> davmor2: yup on a daily basis, think i'll chop my legs off lol
<willy_1977_atwor> davmor2, MooDoo: it's not much fun being short and round either
<willy_1977_atwor> I'm fed up of talking to peoples belly buttons...I'm not that short just in land of the giants at work...
<MooDoo> :)
<DJones> willy_1977_atwor: Just make people crawl round on their knee's
<mfraz74> Is there going to be a Laura A and Laura B in tonight's podcast?
<willy_1977_atwor> DJones: why didn't I think of that... and it'll help them too they don't have to look down anymore... "ok they get carpet fitters knee" but... small price for them to pay for my happiness and well being I reckon ;)
 * shauno thinks someone's taking A/B testing to an illogical extreme ;)
<willy_1977_atwor> shauno: alice and bob testing?
<oimon> is there a shortcut for "show me the . files" in nautilus?
<popey> CTRL+H
<oimon> thanks popey
<czajkowski> well there can't be a Laura C or a laura C as we both have C for our surnames
<popey> np
<czajkowski> whoo dutchie is here :D
<MooDoo> czajkowski: but you're laura c (ztab) :)
<oimon> :S
<bigcalm> Who do I have to pay to get more sleep?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yourself? :)
<MartijnVdS> (by accepting a pay cut and working fewer hours/day)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: that would mean me doing more work
<DJones> bigcalm: You can pay me, but sleep isn't a guarantee
<bigcalm> Heh
<MartijnVdS> DJones: wink, wink?
<bigcalm> I kind of like my salery
<DJones> MartijnVdS: 40 winks :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<MartijnVdS> DJones: ah, is that's what it's called these days ;)
<bigcalm> Power naps
<willy_1977_atwor> power naps are the future! like garlic bread.
<BigRedS> that's one of the best sentences I've read in a while
<oimon> a 15 min power nap on the train home is better than an extra hour of sleep at night
<BigRedS> mostly because there's not a lot else to do on the train?
<willy_1977_atwor> oimon: unless of course you sleep past your station...
<willy_1977_atwor> then the restful sleep becomes a nightmare!
<oimon> its chilly today :(
<shauno> willy_1977_atwor: there's an app for that!(tm)
<MartijnVdS> there's a nap for that
<willy_1977_atwor> shauno: cool!
<shauno> and debconf in aubergine is funky indeed
<BigRedS> hah, yeah, I saw that announcement
<BigRedS> I find that blue quite friendly...
<BigRedS> slashdot's lost its green, debconf its blue...
<shauno> it's just overly familiar. dos's installer was white(+yellow) on blue
<shauno> not complaining, it just jumps out as being different
<oimon> "James Gosling, father of the Java programming language, has announced that he has begun working at Google"
<willy_1977_atwor> oimon: yeah I heard that...
 * willy_1977 has his nick back woot!
<MooDoo> yay
<bigcalm> willy_1977: you could have ghosted the other instance
<bigcalm> If you have registered the nick that is
<willy_1977> bigcalm: it wasn't having that...
<bigcalm> Odd
<willy_1977> so I ended up doing a release
<willy_1977> which then meant the ghost command was redundant (if I'm reading the response from nickserv right)
<shauno> yeah, you can't ghost once you've done recover/release.  it changes the nick of the client using it, then marks the nick in use by services (for 60 seconds?)
<willy_1977> bigcalm: the background was I left irc running at home (have no connection to there as yet) so had to kill off that session first ;)
<willy_1977> shauno: thought as much.
<shauno> then you can't ghost it because you'd be asking services to disconnect services :o)
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> willy_1977: dyndns + port forwarding :)
<willy_1977> bigcalm: added to list of things to read up on :D
<HazRPG> time to sleep
<HazRPG> been up WAY too many days now
<screen-x>   HazRPG sleeeeep!
<willy_1977> HazRPG: enjoy the sleep
<bigcalm> willy_1977: if you do port forwarding to ssh, I suggest that you have the external port away from the default sshd one.
<HazRPG> err... night/morning? :P I'll no doubt be back online later in the evening/night time.
<HazRPG> screen-x: idd!
<HazRPG> willy_1977: thanks :)
<willy_1977> bigcalm: makes sense.
<bigcalm> I have mine in the 2#### region
 * DJones portscans all 2#### numbers
<willy_1977> DJones: :)
<HazRPG> BigRedS: not sure if your about, but I have written a quick draft up about setting up ipv6 and shall be posting it up at some point in the evening/night time when I get up. Hope you'll find it useful :). I have MartijnVdS and shauno to thank for all their help :).
<HazRPG> see ya later everyone o/
<bigcalm> DJones: good luck with that
<DJones> Although it still doesn't help because I don't know the ip to scan against, so I'm just scanning random machines on www
<bigcalm> :)
<willy_1977> lol
<bigcalm> This is why I donate to pdpc
<BigRedS> HazRPG: Awesome! Cheers!
<shauno> I keep mine on 443, because it doesn't tend to get filtered places, but it's just enough to drop a huge amount of random attempts
<bigcalm> Sneaky
<shauno> key-only logins for security, less obvious port for making logs quieter
<BigRedS> I listen on 22 & 443, but firewall 22 off to all but a few trusted IPs
<BigRedS> keeps things straightforward for me, and workable for the other people on my box :)
<HazRPG> BigRedS: no problem dude :) - laters
<bigcalm> That's find if you have static IP addresses. I love my VM cable connection too much to move to an ADSL connection with static IP
<daubers> \o/ static ip
<daubers>  /o\ stpid nslu2
<daubers> Hmm.. house is currently consuming 89 watts
<X3N> is that good or bad?
<daubers> X3N: means the heatings switched off
<daubers> Can't remember if I did that on purpose or not
<DJones> I don't think a static ip is as important, I never have any problems with a dynamic ip, although saying that it doesn't change very often due to the hardware running 24/7
<X3N> is that basically house idle ?
<daubers> X3N: More or less, just my networking stuff running
<Oli```> Anybody know where best to file a bug against the open source ATI video drivers?
<X3N> Oli```: find the package that provides them and file a bug against that package in launchpad
<X3N> seems like quite a lot daubers
<daubers> X3N: That includes the fridge/freezer mind you
<daubers> (two seperate appliances)
<X3N> ah yeah
<X3N> just one of those in running mode could give you 85w alone
<oimon> daubers: i can usually get under 60W at night
<oimon> i switch off my wifi at night
<bigcalm> That's tempting
<MooDoo> oimon: how come?
<MooDoo> sorry ignore that
 * dogmatic69 has 2.4 *MB* /s download \o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: D'oh
<daubers> oimon: I have 2 HDD's, two servers and the router running 24/7
<daubers> want to get a GbE switch and a wireless access point turn the router into a dumb modem at some point, as the switch on it is _rubbish_
<MooDoo> davmor2: ?
<davmor2> just read the scrollback, "oimon: how come?"
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah, i came in halfware through a conversation....again :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: ^
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: :D
<MooDoo> raaaaaaaaa windows viruses
<davmor2> MooDoo: simple solution, don't use windows :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: i don't, family does
<davmor2> MooDoo: at least not while it's easier to use doors
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm trying to persuade them to switch,but they are not interested
<dogmatic69> nothing like 1200mb download in less than 10min
<gord> popey, ping
<computerx> Anyone fancy helping me with a wired network, marked as down, and ifup eth0 says "Ignoring unknown interface..."
<popey> gord: pong
<oimon> davmor2: MooDoo: cos i don't leave stuff on overnight
<oimon> no computers or phones need to talk to internet overnight. the only stuff i leave on is the baby night light , clock radio alarm, and pvr
<oimon> and the fridge&freezer :)
<DJones> oimon: That would mean getting out of bed to check your email first thing in the morning :)
<oimon> or use 3G
<DJones> True, but that uses my mobile bandwidth, wifi is unlimited
<oimon> baby and doggy generally get me up rather abruptly anyway..my wifi is usually on before my phone
<oimon> except for the nocturnal spookiness last night with the 6am android wake-up
<DJones> I don't have the baby problem, our dog normally sleeps until one of us gets up
<oimon> not a jack russell then DJones?
<DJones> :) Nope
<oimon> as soon as dog hears me thinking about getting out of bed she turns into hyper doggy
<oimon> charges round the house to see everyone, runs into the garden , and then goes to bed for another 2 hrs
<gord> popey, what happed with the pink tint bug last night? did you guys find a fix?
<willy_1977> DJones: our greyhound is the same as your dog...
<popey> gord: not sure, i am not a coder, i left a comment on the bug
<willy_1977> gord: it's assigned to me currently - a note was put that it was fixed upstream
<popey> but it looked sensible
<popey> looks like the drawing of the box is done asynchronously
<popey> which seems silly
<willy_1977> or downstream err... I get confused...
<DJones> willy_1977: Seem to find that bigger dogs are more relaxed and sleep longer, little ones get hyper very easily
<gord> popey, willy_1977 - okay if its not a compiz issue then out of my hands really - someone be sure to bring it up in -desktop so someone actually looks at it :)
<willy_1977> anyhow - the temp fix (e.g. the time pause) was already in the main gnome-utils dev branch (unless I've read it wrong) but I did only get chance to browse over it
<oimon> btw i had a discussion last week about whether to charge students for copies of mathematica for use at home/laptops . i decided to give them for free :)
<gord> hrm 3ds sd cards are formatted fat 16, i guess they want compatibility with people living in 1994
<popey> willy_1977: the time delay isnt for the box
<popey> willy_1977: the delay was added because the tool was taking screenshots of itself
<oimon> my area is full of chav dogs now.. they all want to eat my dog and my baby
<willy_1977> popey: ah, ok - I'll have a proper look later tonight
<willy_1977> popey: unless I get chance to look at lunchtime...
<czajkowski> upgrade to natty nearly there....
<MooDoo> czajkowski: any issues?
<czajkowski> not yet
<czajkowski> still installing...
<willy_1977> MooDoo: I upgraded over the weekend... went ok, then hit a kernel panic on restart - not sure if there's anything I can do to reproduce...fixed relatively easy by going to recover and rebuilding grub.cfg
<MooDoo> as long as it's ok now :D
<willy_1977> yeah seems fine... not on it right now as I'm at work but it's been fine...
<MooDoo> groovy
<gord> geeeez, i forgot how slow class 2 sd cards are. its like being on dialup!
<gord> well if dialup was 24mbit but still
<JGJones> Hmm - was looking at that Amazon's announcement of cloud music playing and there being claimed it's the first to do it?
<dogmatic69> is using "tar cvpjf backup.tar.bz2 --exclude=/proc --exclude=/lost+found --exclude=/backup.tar.bz2 --exclude=/mnt --exclude=/sys /" on an instance-store on aws and then "tar xvpfz backup.tgz -C /" on an ebs ok?
<JGJones> Was wondering...doesn't Ubuntu One already does that?
<dogmatic69> ive done it all and now cant seem to access this new ebs box
<gord> JGJones, yup
<oimon> JGJones: that's apples tactic. make wild claims and only correct it if you're forced to
<JGJones> Hmm, typical...those with the money to splash out on PR get to do this
<JGJones> Ubuntu One just need one thing - the ability for me to purchase music via my phone (like Amazon MP3 does)
<gord> JGJones, isn't the music store just a website? seems to be one when i'm buying stuff in banshee, maybe you can just use the phone browser
<willy_1977_hasbe> but... that does sound like a good idea to be suggested somewhere
<JGJones> gord, yes you could - but having a dedicated app is much easier - I'll end up just using amazon mp3 to buy songs on the move instead (much easier)
<JGJones> anyway what's the address for the music store? :-)
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<willy_1977> brobostigon: afternoon
<brobostigon> willy_1977: good afternoon.
<shauno> http://www.7digital.com/stores/default.aspx?shop=496  appears to be the tidiest url I can find :/
<willy_1977> JGJones I like that suggestion, not that I've used ubuntu one or owt but... nice little project I'd have thought - although going through the iphone hoops to get onto the appstore... :/
<shauno> I think it's already on the appstore?
<willy_1977> ahhh ok, so someone has done a client for it?
<czajkowski> upgraded work machine to natty....
<MooDoo> yay
<czajkowski> looks very different from home machine
<shauno> willy_1977: if I search the store on my phone, it comes up with https://one.ubuntu.com/mobile/  .. but it doesn't make clear whether you can purchase tracks thru it or not
<willy_1977> czajkowski: does that mean you are using unity?
<willy_1977> shauno: just searched here too... doesn't make it clear it's not in there but it's not listed as a feature...
<czajkowski> willy_1977: yes
<czajkowski> I dislike how once again chrome has removed all of my passowrds and logsin
<czajkowski> *logins
<willy_1977> :o
<willy_1977> doesn't sound so good...
<gord> doesn't chrome sync passwords/logins?
<gord> i thought it at least synced that
<czajkowski> gord: it should do...
<czajkowski> but on upgrade fro maverick to natty, all my login details are gone
<gord> evil
<gord> lets hoped it hasn't synced that reset of passwords to your other chrome installs...
<popey> lastpass ftw
<czajkowski> mmmmmm tasty spag bol
<dwatkins> I'm hungry now, czajkowski ;)
<willy_1977> on unity my first thoughts are why isn't this there, and where's that gone etc. etc. but to be fair when work switched from xp to windows vespa it was the same...and I finally got used to it ;)
<czajkowski> dwatkins: I suggest food
<dwatkins> czajkowski: indeed, lots of it
<willy_1977> hummm how long does the podcast live show usually last for? I'm just wondering if I can catch any of it tonight as I'll not be back to 2130 at the earliest.
<popey> 1 hour
<popey> if we stick to the clock
<willy_1977> ah ok, will have to pick it up on gpodder then.
<shauno> man I hate dealing with registrars
<shauno> 54 quid to retag a .uk domain?  nominet will do it for 10 :/
<MooDoo> shauno: get nominet to do it then :D
<shauno> I did :)  figured out how to do that when my last registrar pulled a funny one
<MooDoo> :D
<shauno> they somehow forgot to autorenew, then told me I had a chance at winning it back at auction
<MooDoo> shauno: that's crap
<shauno> nominet have a grace period, my name was still on it, so I retagged it myself for a tenner
<MooDoo> shauno: yeah nominet are pretty good
<shauno> they are.  I've been pleasantly surprised every time I've had to deal with them
<MooDoo> shauno: wish i could afford to be a tag holder myself :)
<DJones> I'd have thought they would just have a computerised system which does automatically reminded the customer to pay & if received submitted the relevant doumentation
<shauno> they'd just chipped it off my card for years in a row.  then one year, just didn't
<AlanBell> some ISPs allow other people to pay outstanding fees for domains
<shauno> makes sense to me.  it's not like you can maliciously pay someone else's fare :)
<DJones> Thats got me thinking though, what happens to domains that aren't renewed, do they just become available again or does they get passed on to domain squatters etc
<AlanBell> I once paid for the gravatar.com domain for a year when it went down and broke everyone's blog comment avatars
<AlanBell> traced it back to the ISP, saw the outstanding payment, paid $5, fixed the internet
<shauno> DJones: they're meant to just get released, but people intentionally watch expiring domains
<shauno> (assuming no funny business)
<hamitron> and ones you want never expire
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> when i registered my company I wanted the .IT domain, someone registered it the day I setup my company!
<popey> so i thought I'd go for the .com, which was idle, contacted the owner and they wanted $3K for it
<popey> "no thanks"
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> .it used to be a bit evil, but they've relaxed now
<popey> then I got some paper spam from a domain company saying that .com was gone, but we could register a .ltd.uk for you
<popey> so i thought "thanks" and went elsewhere to get it :D
<hamitron> :))
<DJones> I'm not thinking about the popular domain names, maybe more somebodys personal website were the address wouldn't be on a watch list, eg www.tomsmithhobbies.co.uk etc, I presume something like that would just get released
<AlanBell> Oops! Google Chrome could not find www.tomsmithhobbies.co.uk
<DJones> AlanBell: Must have been released :)
<hamitron> AB automatically clicks on every link? ;)
<DJones> I'm waiting for a big multinational to introduce a product worldwide with a name that fits a personal website so I can sell them the name for shedloads of money :)
<popey> ooo
<popey> in screen, CTRL+A, C blanks the screen
<popey> neato
<popey> then CTRL+L redraws
<popey> (i accidentially had caps lock on, wanted little c)
<DJones> Isnt Ctrl+A C Create new window, or is it the caps lock C thats case sensitive
<AlanBell> ctrl+a c creates a new window?
<popey> DJones: C clears, c creates new window
<DJones> Ah
<AlanBell> ooh, very odd
<AlanBell> why would you want to do that?
<hamitron> some command line apps don't always work well maybe?
<hamitron> I remember having problems with epic in screen once
<DJones> I guess it could be useful if you want to hide what you're doing when somebody looks over your shoulder & then redraw once they've gone away
<oimon> noticed a ballot paper on my pile of unopened post the other day ..anyone know what it's for (i'm inside london)
<DJones> Local elections?
<DJones> Alternative vote vote?
<hamitron> is that this year?
<seeker> It will be for the AV referendum
<DJones> hamitron: Early may I think
<X3N> May 6th I think
<oimon> i have a feeling it's just for the PR vote thing.. and no actual elections
<DJones> 5th May
<oimon> turnout is gonna be pretty small for that then
<hamitron> AV, not PR ;/
<oimon> same gubbins though
<DJones> same day as local elections, but electoral register doesn't close until 14th April, so unlikely to be for either of them
<seeker> oimon: Most of the country other than central London has local elections too
<oimon> seeker - they should get the normal 50% ish turnout then..but inside london?
<oimon> maybe they should have a facebook referendum
<hamitron> to ban facebook?
<oimon> :P
<oimon> hold the referendum on facebook
<willy_1977> Should we ban facebook?
<willy_1977> yes
<willy_1977> yes?
<hamitron> will we? no :/
 * oimon likes facebook
 * willy_1977 and facebook are going thorugh a messy separation...
<hamitron> if you held a referendum to ban facebook on facebook, prob not work well :/
<oimon> when you get to the stage in life that a lot of your friends are getting married and having kids, it's nice to see them growing up via photos on facebook, especially if you only get to see them once a year or less
<hamitron> I like walking to the polling station, there are 4 pubs on route
<DJones> Rather than banning facebook, maybe just ban the games on it & take facebook back to its original idea
<hamitron> I personally hate the idea of communicating through facebook
<oimon> i do like the facility to ban certain apps from your list..shame you cant ban all by default though
<hamitron> a lot of people are using facebook and getting lazy
<shauno> hamitron: it gets better .. there's another 4 pubs on the way home :)
<hamitron> shauno: exactly :)
<hamitron> I try to go to vote each day, do my bit for the country
<hamitron> only they aren't open that often
<JGJones> oimon, I've just closed my profile to everyone (ie all permissions set to me only) and the next step is to delete my account. The reasoning? Seeing people getting lazy thinking that a status update on facebook is "communicating"
<oimon> JGJones: it is communicating though.
<hamitron> oimon: it isn't
<JGJones> oimon, No it's not.
<DJones> seeker: Any idea why central london isn't/doesn't have local elections
<willy_1977> oimon: I agree in the respect of social sharing for distance friends etc. but facebook has just morphed into some beast...
<JGJones> oimon, a emotionless text status box tell me nothing.
<oimon> then when i meet friends , i've caught up with a few factoids about what's happening with them, and we can engage in decent conversation.
<oimon> it's more of a social lubricant than alcohol
<hamitron> this year I've found out off a few people they haven't received my xmas cards for a few years.... because they tell "everyone" their change of address on facebook
<shauno> I find facebook's the easiest way for me to have random natters with family members now.  that's worth summat to me
<oimon> sometimes you find out bad news via facebook that means it's not awkward when you pile into a conversation and didn't know about the bad news
<hamitron> they also post "merry xmas everyone!" and consider that a replacement to hand writing xmas cards/letters
 * hamitron grunts
<seeker> DJones: No idea
<JGJones> oimon, um, finding out bad news leading to people avoiding the subject when meeting face to face? Not ideal.
<DJones> hamitron: Thanks for that idea, thats just save me Â£10 in postage
<oimon> JGJones: it means you are informed
<hamitron> hehe
<oimon> shame to hear about your miscarriage is better than, i see your bump is getting bigger, when's it due again?
<JGJones> Frankly I find it more pleasant to meet people and then finding out NEW things by the pleasure of them telling me. That's priceless and should not be replaced by a bland generic text based page.
 * hamitron agrees with JGJones
<JGJones> oimon, yes I would prefer that actually. Allowing people to TALK about it help the healing process.
<popey> hamitron: are you on facebook?
<hamitron> popey: no
<willy_1977> oimon: I'd say you're wrong there...
<popey> me neither
<popey> :)
<oimon> i've seen it work well. i have huge number of family members, and i feel we all get on better knowing a bit more about the triviliaties in our lives since it helps us to catch up and converse
 * MooDoo has just deactivated his :)
<oimon> when there's a big family do
<hamitron> I refuse to be dragged into a site that people want me to join, just cuz they are too lazy to write me a letter.... if I mean that little to them, I don't need them
 * popey starts the timer on when MooDoo will be back on facebook
<JGJones> Instead of avoiding the subject (case in point - step brother of mine have just had a miscarriage - his friends that found out by facebook doesn't talk about it = "it doesn't exist". Those that found out in person, talk about with them - guess which they prefer).
<oimon> i'm talking about wider family
<MooDoo> popey: one month when i've passed my exam :)
<willy_1977> yes there's the inital oh bother but what happened bfb?
<willy_1977> *before facebook
<DJones> Probably 95% of facebook messages wouldn't be posted there if children had their parents as friends :)
<MooDoo> DJones: http://failbook.failblog.org/
<oimon> DJones: it's a good way to check your status messages
<JGJones> oimon, heh - my wife's irish....they  have a huge family (everyone's a cousin or something) :-) - They all talk and catch up on EVERYTHING...all without needing Facebook too :-)
<hamitron> before facebook..... everyone talked more, so word would of spread faster by mouth
<shauno> I've siblings spread from here to alaska.  without sharing natters online, it'd spread much, much slower
<oimon> i find it hard to communicate with uncles/aunts and some cousins, (around 65 of them) all at once otherwise.
<willy_1977> my revelation was as I was updating my status whilst taking a dump... I thought what the fluff am I doing...it was taking over my life!!!! man... I'm sad!
<oimon> willy_1977: yeah, that's what twitter is for!
<hamitron> shauno: there is a place for some communication ofc
<DJones> I've got my wifes cousin 18 year old cousin on facebook, her parents would have been horrified at things she's put on their over the last couple of years
<JGJones> Now with friends - I have found this to be true - they say "oh did you hear about xxxx on facebook?" - everyone say yeah. Conversation at that point end within a minute. I say "I haven't" as they know I don't use it. They all talk about it a lot more suddenly.
<JGJones> So in a sense, knowing something before meeting people just kill conversations - it's covered already.
<hamitron> good old "catch up" convos :)
<BigRedS> well, that's just everyone else having already had the conversation
<BigRedS> that happens in real life, too
<willy_1977> oimon: I've not bothered with twa... errr twitter in a while either
<hamitron> posting a line of text on facebook is not a convo :/
<BigRedS> no
<hamitron> it is just a way of passing on a message
<BigRedS> but if one person posts a line, and then someone else posts another, and a third person yet another, then one of the first two reply, and then one of the other two do, too, once that repeats it gets pretty close to a conversation
<oimon> i'm not too prolific on facebook but i like posting photos
<JGJones> Try going cold turkey with facebook for a while = does it really affect your relationship with your friends/family? My guess are it won't make a difference :-)
<JGJones> Your mum's still your mum after all ;-)
<JGJones> (at least I would hope so!)
<oimon> my extended family love to see photos of my kid, otherwise i'd have to spam them all via email
<hamitron> JGJones: it won't affect things with close people, no
<DJones> BigRedS: Thats sounds like a description of IRC ... One person posts a line, someone else posts another etc :)
<shauno> heh, my mum's still my mum, and she's still 6 timezones away :)
<BigRedS> DJones: exactly :) I have conversations on Facebook all the time
<DJones> Although for some people 3 lines might be a novel for some people
<BigRedS> 'cause the people I used to talk to on AIM or whatever now don't bother signing in any more
<hamitron> a 2 min convo would take my Dad days to type :/
<oimon> BigRedS: me too - a few have moved to gmail chat and that's about it
<popey> yup, pretty much nobody ever contacts me on msn, yahoo, icq or google talk now
<popey> they're all on facebook
<gord> hehe  http://www.cadw.wales.gov.uk/ - view source ;)
<JGJones> strangely enough - I've noticed a lot not talking on IM, but they also talk a lot less via IM - even if including FB chat. Seems that a status update is enough for them and they don't use IM
<DJones> People with android phones seem to use googletalk im quite a bit
<Tommeh> Guity
<Tommeh> *Guilty
<Tommeh> I prefer it to using MSN in pidgin. too
<hamitron> JGJones: suppose if people use a chat, it maybe isn't so bad
<JGJones> hamitron, no...I mean that in my case, friends use IM a lot less
<JGJones> hamitron, even if I include Facebook's inbuilt IM
<DJones> Tommeh: Same here, almost everybody I know that used to use MSN either use facebook or googletalk now
<hamitron> live "chat" is not like putting a sticky note on my front door
<hamitron> JGJones: what is happening to you would annoy me :)
<willy_1977> well facebook has it's uses I just think it's over-used and now bloated with other rubbish that's not needed...Lately it's just been a way for people who used to flush my head down the toilet at school to salve their conscience so I blocked 'em all :p
<DJones> Things change over time, how many people still use friendsreunited.co.uk
<shauno> that's the one thing I do to make it sensible.  I block anyone I'm not either related to, or close enough friends with that I'd travel to see them again
<czajkowski> great fraud alert went on my card and has now had to be cancelled due to someone trying to use it.
<shauno> :(
<DJones> Ouch
<MooDoo> oh dear
<shauno> bright side, they caught it in time?
<shauno> still a pain in the rear tho
<hamitron> "damn, bounced payment into my account" ;)
<willy_1977> yowser... as shauno says at least it was caught I guess.
<DJones> czajkowski: How long for a replacement card to come through
<czajkowski> 5-7 wworking day
<czajkowski> s
<DJones> Thats definately a pain
<czajkowski> hmm my tweets/dents don't seem to be working since my upgrade
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you're ok for cash etc though yeah?
<DJones> czajkowski:I wondered why I've not seen any tweets saying you were either at a train station or in a pub/eating house
<czajkowski> MooDoo: aye
<czajkowski> I cna go into a bank to withdraw cash
<czajkowski> DJones: :p
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ok just making sure :)
<Tommeh> 'The Bank of Filbert', shirley?
<czajkowski> Tommeh: eh no
<Tommeh> Spoilsport >.<
<bigcalm> Missread as Soil-snort
<bigcalm> Which could be painful
<DJones> BigRedS: Use fine grade soil, it might reduce the pain
<bigcalm> DJones: Tab fail :(
<DJones> s/BigRedS/bigcalm
<DJones> Fixed
<BigRedS> Haha! That confused me for a while
<bigcalm> BigRedS: lazy bunch in here ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: repeat after me "I must stop break stuff when upgrading"  I think the version of sqlite changed try popey cache clear twitter post to fix it :)
<popey> http://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/51729802612322304
<davmor2> czajkowski: don't forget to stop gwibber-service and gwibber before you do though
<davmor2> czajkowski: that should reset you with the last X quantity of posts :0
<davmor2> s/0/)
<n1md4> hello.  does anyone know how to convert 3gpp to mp3?
<popey> I'd probably use ffmpeg
<JGJones> n1md4, if you want a GUI method - you could try Sound Converter?
<popey> we talked about the openpandora here last week...
<popey> http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/2630-juggling-with-some-numbers-2011-03-29/
<popey> doesn't look good
<n1md4> JGJones: I don't mind GUI, but doesn't seem to want to work with 3GPP.
<JGJones> Arista transcoder is another GUI tool - dunno if it converts to MP3 though. Otherwise it's ffmpeg
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ffmpeg/+bug/93849
<lubotu3> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/93849)
<popey> maybe use vlc?
<willy_1977> popey: openpandora... it's just teething trouble.
<popey> hahaha
<oimon> anyone using nomachine/freenx as a terminal server for multiple remote users?
<BigRedS> I'm sure there's an easy way for someone other than root to get a list of IP addresses live on a machine, but I can't work out what it is...
<BigRedS> anyone know?
<oimon> what's a "list of IP addresses live"
<willy_1977> BigRedS: not quite sure what you mean...oh yep what oimon said...
<davmor2> BigRedS: Do you mean in server terms people connected to it or do you mean ifconfig so you know what it's ipaddresses are
<BigRedS> davmor2: ifconfig -a for normal users
<smittix> Has anyone managed to get evolution working with MS Exchange properly GAL and all
<BigRedS> sorry, wandered off to find out :)
<BigRedS> I'm scripting a thing to find sites configured on a server where the domain name doesn't point at it, and I'd rather not have it need to be run as root
<oimon> /sbin/ifconfig since /sbin isn't in the usual path for usrs
<davmor2> BigRedS: ifconfig -a ;)
<BigRedS> Hah, oh yeah
 * BigRedS feels a bit silly 
<shauno> woot.  finished he.net's ipv6 'certification' thingie.  no idea what it's worth, but hey - free t-shirt
<oimon> btw any takers for my freenx/nomachine question up there ^^ ?
<davmor2> BigRedS: feel free to slap your head and say "D'oh!!" at any point :)
<BigRedS> davmor2: Haha, already done! :)
<BigRedS> oimon: I read it, but I can't help I'm afraid :(
<oimon> BigRedS: thanks for the sympathy anyway :)
 * smittix Pulls what is left of his hair out.
<daubers> \o/ common sense from a manufacturers sales agents
<daubers> Ice cream makers plastic lid cracked, company line is "We don't keep them as spare parts, go back to the retailer", but we where given it as a gift so can't. However, did manage to speak to someone with _some_ semblence of common sense who is speaking to the factory to see if they can get a lid to replace the broken one \o/
<daubers> My faith in humanity is lifted a small amount
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can't say I am surprised but Interesting how FF4 is eclipsing IE9 in the download stakes... http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/29/6367464-browser-wars-update-firefox-4-slaughtering-internet-explorer-9
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, has ie9 been force-fed to anyone through windowsupdate yet? anyone running ff3.6 has already been fed ff4
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: Dunno. but IE9 doesn't run on XP which means it's going to languish for a long time anyway.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, that's a good point
<TheOpenSourcerer> My FF3.6 hasn't updated ;-) Nor do I expect it to.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, check under help/check for updates!
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Canonical/Ubuntu build package has that feature disabled.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, well, if you will run some backwards os without the amazing choice of ie9...
<directhex> (NOTE, THIS IS A JOKE)
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: No sh*t sherlock ;-)
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, some of us are under extra suspicion when it comes to such jokes Â¬_Â¬
<willy_1977> IE9 has not been force fed  - but neither has FF4 (in windows land )
<TheOpenSourcerer> And that is well deserved directhex
<directhex> willy_1977, it's definitely fed via "check for updates" in 3.6.16
<willy_1977> I was thinking more of the automatic "I didn't go looking for this update" update...
<willy_1977> oh poo... I've just realised I'm supposed to be leaving early today and I'm still slap bang in the middle of something... ear chewing from mrs w may be on the cards... gaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh....
<directhex> willy_1977, it does the automatic search every week or so. so give it a couple of days
<directhex> some people WILL have been given the message without asking
<willy_1977> got you - well that's cool but ie9 definitely not come through yet (thank the lord - I'll be holding off for SP1 or something)
<willy_1977> on that bombshell though better go run me errands.
<willy_1977> bbl
<JGJones> I don't think that FF4 is being pushed as an update by Mozilla yet so all downloads of that is manual at the moment.
<JGJones> (at least for Windows/OSX)
<directhex> JGJones, manual as in "check for updates" or firefox-setup.exe?
<JGJones> as in firefox-setup.exe (people going to website and downloading it
<DJones> directhex: I've just looked at a machine I've got & thats still running 3.6.16 on a 10.04 machine
<daubers> JGJones: I have noted that if you're running FF3.x on a PPC mac, it will still prompt you to update, and then it won't run as they don't support PPC anymore :)
<directhex> JGJones, that's definitely false. i upgraded my windows partiiton & my wife's desktop without visiting the firefox website. just help/check for updates
<directhex> DJones, updates are disabled on ubuntu. apt takes over.
<JGJones> directhex, ah, ok thanks, I stand corrected :-)
<oimon> apt FTW
<DJones> directhex: ok, I thought you were suggesting that ff4 was being updated regardless of that
<JGJones> DJones, I use Mozilla's PPA to get updates, so I get FF4 on a 10.04 machine
<oimon> is ie9 delivered as part of windowsupdate?
<JGJones> Either way, it doesn't matter much to me. I use the superior browser of all - Opera ;-)
<JGJones> oimon, no as far as I know.
<oimon> never got into opera..i guess it was the lack of easy adblocker
<JGJones> oimon, I don't usually block ads on many websites that I go to since for any good sites, it's how they make money in order to operate.
<JGJones> oimon, however there's some extensions for Opera that does block ads such as this one - https://addons.opera.com/addons/extensions/details/noads/1.0.8/?display=en
<oimon> i find browsing the web nearly impossible without some kind of adblocking - particularly if i'm researching a problem i might visit 100s of sites in a day..and you gotta kiss a lot of frogs before you find the prince
<oimon> browsing on my android phone is pretty tough unless they deliver a mobile version of the site..and sucks up bandwidth. i hear firefox mobile has extension support built in
<JGJones> oimon, You could get the Opera Mobile browser - it deals with desktop version of websites quite well and you can enable "mobile view" where it attempts to reformat a page into a mobile version. Works well most of the time, but not always.
<oimon> might give it a go
<JGJones> But firefox mobile, I'm not sure how much their extension support will add, I think it would be a limited version, ie you can't add all the extensions you want.
<JGJones> Opera Mini for when you're using 3G only (it compress pages before you get them, save on bandwidth)
<oimon> sites make money from users clicking ads rather than viewing them
<directhex> a bit of both
<oimon> google text ads are ok, but facebook sidebar ads were offensive so i made sure they never came back
<oimon> made my web cache look like i'd been surfing singles sites or something
<oimon> btw the advert supplied in the spotify client didn't have to be clicked in order to infect the windows machine  =-O
<davmor2> thought people might like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YANe3o1dgG0
<JGJones> Hmm - I'm compiling libopal at the moment in order to get H263, H263+ and H264 in Ekiga...one question...I'll need the libavcodec that I get from mediubuntu, but I need the -dev version...where would I get this from since it's not in mediubuntu?
<hamitron> it isn't in universe?
<hamitron> http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/libopal-dev
<hamitron> oh nvm, looking up wrong thing
<X3N> I always advocate apt-get buildep package
<X3N> but libavcodec-dev is available
<JGJones> Yeah, that's in main - so I don't know if that would include H263, H264 etc?
<JGJones> if it does I will use that
<X3N> try it and see?
<X3N> or apt-get builddep libopal
<X3N> *build-dep
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110329_181626.jpg here be cooling :3
<shauno> sweet; you're making a hovercraft?!
<Azelphur> haha :D
<Azelphur> shauno: fans for my radiator :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> WTF are you trying to cool Azelphur - Why not just go for Phase Change or Liquid Nitrogen?
<Azelphur> Liquid nitro isn't sustainable and phase change requires insulation and is very tricky to pull off
<Azelphur> I'm doing water, those are the fans on the radiator
<Myrtti> herm.
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: with phase change because the temps are so far below 0 you get condensation buildup so unless you insulate the motherboard you kill it
<Azelphur> and if you get it wrong you kill it, and it's generally far more difficult to pull off than water :p
<Azelphur> and yea, liquid nitro isn't exactly safe to work with either
<Azelphur> for obvious reasons xD
<TheOpenSourcerer> Try this then instead ;-) http://www.armari.com/xcp-gallery.asp
<TheOpenSourcerer> Full immersive cooling
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: I thought about that too, it's less efficient than water.
<hamitron> hows about getting something that emites less heat?
<hamitron> ;)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: heretic!
<Azelphur> ^
<TheOpenSourcerer> There's always that hamitron
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: with full immersive the radiator has so much more work to do keeping a large volume of water cool
<TheOpenSourcerer> I choose components for thermal efficiency.
<Azelphur> vs a closed loop, there's far less water and the radiator can act more optimially
<TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: That isn't water.
<Azelphur> no, it's probably oil
<MartijnVdS> meltdown!
<Azelphur> as I say, I considered it :)
<Azelphur> it's great if you want decent cooling with near silence, but it's not actually optimal
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73554
<hamitron> how cool should the chipset reading be?
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: yea, I'd still be dubious as to how much better it'd perform vs my setup
<hamitron> if I had money, I'd go entirely passive
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> 4 3000RPM fans strapped to the side of a 480mm radiator is going to be a pretty decent amount of cooling
<hamitron> maybe with water cooling
<Azelphur> hamitron: I wanna try and get my i7 up to 4-5ghz :)
<gord> watercooling still needs a pump and a fan to blow on a radiator. its not passive by a long shot ;)
<Azelphur> indeed
<hamitron> it is if the radiators have no fan
<gord> i run my i7 with water cooling right now, works well
<hamitron> well, fanless I mean
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: imo if you want passive full submersion like TheOpenSourcerer linked is the best way to go
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_cooling#Liquid_submersion_cooling
<Azelphur> that stuff can get rid of a very decent amount of heat with no radiator or anything, pudget systems has an example system that's completely passive
<shauno> or you can put together a pretty passable atom system that's fanless
<hamitron> I'd have a water pump, fanless, with the pipes going under the floor for underfloor heating ideally
<gord> atoms get real hot without fans
<gord> if you want to go that way, get an arm chipset
<MartijnVdS> good thing I have lots of fans -- I'm made of atoms!
<shauno> lol hamitron .. now there's an interesting idea
<Azelphur> the joggler has an atom with a plastic heat sink and does ok
<Azelphur> gord: ^
<hamitron> shauno: I should patent it? ;)
<hamitron> Â£2000 comp with Â£8000 fittings
<Myrtti> ooo, I like this redshift thing
<hamitron> 10% discount if you join my BOINC team
<hamitron> Azelphur: is that a usb game controller?
<Azelphur> hamitron: it's a normal playstation pad plugged into a Â£2 converter from ebay :)
<hamitron> oh, cool
<hamitron> i got a converter arriving
<Azelphur> yea, they are nice
<hamitron> was wonder what controller it is
<hamitron> as I want something like a ps1 controller for PC
<Azelphur> well that is a ps1 controller that plugs into a PC :)
<hamitron> I'll soon ahve the same then
<hamitron> I saw a PC controller for Â£25, but not paying that
<Azelphur> yea, they work ootb with Ubuntu and Windows or whatever, very generic they work great
<hamitron> I don't play enough games that I'd use gamepad
<Azelphur> I've had it for ages
<Azelphur> works with wine too :)
<hamitron> well, it will be on my win7 pc tbh ;)
<Azelphur> :)
<shauno> I found it pretty easy to get mame to play nicely with generic usb gamepads.  my keyboard thanked me.
<hamitron> shauno: I just haven't found a usb gamepad for pc I like, for the right price
<hamitron> both mine use midi port
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> I got a knock-off playstation controller from dealextreme
<hamitron> the G27 is calling me these days
<shauno> something like http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-2-0-gamepad-for-pc-laptop-black-160cm-cable-48560
<hamitron> I should really make the jump to one
<shauno> Â£4.25 shipped :o)   gotta love DX
<hamitron> this one! http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-pc-dualshock-controller-black-618
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> looks way more hardcore
<Azelphur> shauno: DX annoyed me recently, they took 2 weeks before my item even left the warehouse
<Azelphur> over a month before it was on my doorstep
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> and over a week to reply to ticket :/
<hamitron> I've been waiting 24 days for my ps1 to usb adapter
<hamitron> :(
<shauno> their shipping can be all over the place.  I tend not to complain when it's coming from hong kong to europe for Â£4 tho
<hamitron> cheesnies need to work on they speed
<shauno> but it does seem to vary wildly.  I've usually forgotten what I ordered by time it shows up
<hamitron> yeh
<jacobw> Azelphur: I'm looking at the Eee PC 1018p
<Azelphur> jacobw: interested in used? :P
<jacobw> Have you got a used one :o ?
<Azelphur> I have a 1001P I wouldn't mind selling
<Azelphur> so I could upgrade to a tablet version
<jacobw> Ah ha, sounds good.
<jacobw> Specs..
<Azelphur> it's in pretty good condition, runs Ubuntu fine, It even has well-placed ubuntu stickers, there's a small scratch on the lid
<jacobw> I'm not bothered about cosmetics
<Azelphur> lemme grab it and I'll check the specs
<hamitron> all these Eee PC seem about teh same don't they?
<hamitron> just slight differences
<Azelphur> there are certain atoms that chug power
<Azelphur> mine is one of the ones that doesn't chug power :D
<hamitron> this one for 300 quid has faster cpu and USB 3.0
<hamitron> netbook with sub 3.0? ;/
<hamitron> usb*
<jacobw> USB 3.0?
<Azelphur> jacobw: Atom N450 @ 1.66Ghz, 1GB RAM, 150GB HD, built in webcam
<Azelphur> jacobw: battery charges to 93.6% of capacity :)
<jacobw> How is the battery life?
<Azelphur> 5 hours with compiz and 3 instances of conky running lol
<Azelphur> could probably get 8 out of it without too much trouble
<jacobw> Any Linux problems?
<Azelphur> jacobw: none that I've seen, I use it exclusively on Ubuntu
<jacobw> Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that sound through headphones or something wasn't a problem
<czajkowski> Aloha
<jacobw> o/
<Azelphur> jacobw: nope, speakers and headphones work, I use it to watch TV in bed with mythtv + headphones almost daily lol
<jacobw> :)
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 31st 21:00 GMT #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz: 16th April 21:00 | We're jammin' http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/687/detail/ | Podcast recording tonight #ubunt
<Azelphur> jacobw: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110329_191348.jpg here's a pic of the scratch :p
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 31st 21:00 GMT #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz: 16th April 21:00 | We're jammin' http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/687/detail/ | live tonight #ubuntu-uk-podcast
<Azelphur> jacobw: I did a review of it http://azelphur.com/my-new-netbook-asus-1001p-review if you look at the bottom there's photos of where I've placed Ubuntu stickers :)
<jacobw> I came across that blog post yesterday while I searching for netbooks
<Azelphur> haha :D
<Azelphur> that's my blog ;)
<jacobw> Yes yes, I know :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> jacobw: theres a script attached too to set up two finger scrolling
<Azelphur> which is really cool :D
<Azelphur> I don't know why the option is greyed out in the mouse settings dialog, but that script sets it up *shrug*
<Azelphur> maybe in natty it'll be available in the mouse settings dialog
<jacobw> I'm interested, PM me
<hamitron> what is "Super Hybrid Engine" in your Eee Azelphur?
<Azelphur> no idea lol
<mgdm> Do not taunt Super Hybrid Engine.
<Azelphur> Super Hybrid Engine will Hybrid you :o
<mgdm> In Super Russia, Engine Hybrids You.
<hamitron> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/educational-diy-solar-powered-train-toy-54233
<shauno> dominos website isn't very clever :(
<hamitron> I want one with rails around the garden :/
<shauno> Your local Domino's is: Galway - East, 16 Prospect Hill, Eyre Square, Galway Tel: 00353 91 566 100 (not your address?)
<shauno> no, it's not my address.  it's domino's address.  /facepalm.
<AlanBell> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/
<popey> wheee
<suprengr> o/
<phonex01> can i use cinema 4D on ubuntu ?
<suprengr> ...and to podcast \o/
<Azelphur> !blender | phonex01
<lubotu3> phonex01: blender is a free application for 3D modelling, animation, rendering, etc. You can install it from Ubuntu's repositories, and tutorials are at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro
<Azelphur> phonex01: have you tried ^ ?
<phonex01> blender is not the same as Cinema 4D ! ?
<Azelphur> Cinema 4D is a 3D modelling tool, so is blender?
 * AlanBell has never heard of cinema 4d
<AlanBell> but blender is kinda cool
<Azelphur> me either :P
<phonex01> i use blender but i m asking about cinema 4D !
<Azelphur> phonex01: We don't know anything about Cinema 4D, I assume they don't provide Linux support?
<phonex01> i think so !
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_4D wikipedia has heard of it
<Azelphur> phonex01: I assume you want the latest version, R12?
<phonex01> oh yah !
<Azelphur> yea, it won't run under wine either apparently
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Screenc4d2.jpg looks like blender
<phonex01> thats it
<AlanBell> people who write applications with too many buttons like grey it seems
<Azelphur> phonex01: a quick google reveals some talk about a C4D version for Linux, you should look into that
<Azelphur> but from a quick look it appears the answer is no :p
<shauno> summary googling seems to indicate it ran on wine somewhere around v8, native was promised but never showed up
<phonex01> forget about that !
<phonex01> i will use it under windows
<phonex01> no problem \1
<phonex01> printf("%s"," Thank You");
<Azelphur> lol
<shauno> well, we really can't apologize for commercial software house's inability to do things with thousand-dollar products that nerds have done for free :)
<phonex01> no problem man ! it is ok
<phonex01> ok question number 2
<phonex01> is there any way to hack WPA/ WPA2 without using a dictionary ?
<MonsterKiller> Hello, i run Ubuntu server 10.10. How could i go about getting tasks to run on system start. i cant seem to find anything helpful on google.
<jacobw> phonex01: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Access#Security_.26_Insecurity_in_pre-shared_key_mode
<jacobw> Read and learn :)
<phonex01> hahahahha
<phonex01> jacobw ! are you serious ?
<phonex01> by the way this is a good way to push some one to learn !
<hamitron> MonsterKiller: you could monify scripts inside /etc/init.d
<popey> hacking WPA is somewhat offtopic for this channel phonex01
<MonsterKiller> hey hamitron. I have a script inside there to start ZNC for example, yet it does not seem to work.
<phonex01> popey you always make me upset do you hate me ,,, is it personal  ?
<popey> no
<phonex01> are you sure about that ?
<popey> yes
<jacobw> If WPA2 was easy to crack it would have been replaced
 * jacobw is also sure
<popey> i would say the same if someone else asked the same question
<popey> and have, multiple times
<phonex01> but it is sill common !
<popey> what is?
<hamitron> MonsterKiller: best advice I can give is check the script works seperately after boot, check permissions and check it is referenced correctly from another script inside there
<phonex01> i mean it is still common
<phonex01> poey im talking to jacobw
<popey> oh
<phonex01> popey im kidding but i like to push people to be upset
<popey> that wont get you far here
<phonex01> hahahahah
<popey> keep that up and you'll get kicked for trolling
<phonex01> ok im sorry when you try to kick me let me know to say my final words
<phonex01> take it as a human right !
<MonsterKiller> hamitron, well thats the thing. I dont really know anything about it so idk how it should be set up :/
<jacobw> Yes, its common because there's no known reliable attacks
<AlanBell> phonex01: or alternatively just try not to get kicked
<phonex01> ok AlanBell it is look like poey control the show here ?
<jacobw> WEP was phased out for exactly that reason, there were reliable attacks
<phonex01> ok peopey all respects for you
<nucc1> the sun is rising.
<hamitron> MonsterKiller: I normally copy an existing script like "ssh" and modify it to do as i want.... then add a line in rc.local to run it
<phonex01> hi jacobw WEP now is just kids game !
<nucc1> trolls will turn to rock.
<phonex01> ok i have question
<phonex01> my HD partition have lonnnnnng name
<phonex01> something like
<phonex01> 3DDER4RRFD
<phonex01> how can i change that name ?
<MonsterKiller> hamitron, okay. so rc.local is inside /etc right? also, would it be at all possible to get an example line for rc.local? would be much appreciated
<mfraz74> that's probably just the UUID
<mfraz74> and is unique to that hard drive
<hamitron> MonsterKiller: another option is to start it when you login
<MonsterKiller> hamitron, well i wanted the auto start so that if my server went offline and came back on again things would starts themself
<nucc1> phonex01, System > Administration > Disk Utility allows one to edit filesystem labels.
<hamitron> has to be on system startup then, so yeh
<hamitron> if you call the script "ZNC" and put it inside /etc/init.d
<phonex01> thank you nucc1
<phonex01> sorry i mean printf("Thank you ");
<nucc1> whatever.
<hamitron> you could then put something like "sh /etc/init.d/ZNC start" inside the file /etc/init.d/rc.local
<hamitron> or miss the "start" off if it is a simple script not needing it
<MonsterKiller> oh okay. Thanks hamitron :) will try that
<hamitron> the key is the znc script you make
<hamitron> you may also want it to run as unprivilaged user
<MonsterKiller> it only needs to run: su rob -c "znc"
<hamitron> so be careful
<MonsterKiller> so that would run its as a non-root user
<MonsterKiller> it as*
<AlanBell> live podcast starting right now
<hamitron> good luck monster
<hamitron> :)
<MonsterKiller> :P thanks
<jacobw> AlanBell: I knew there was a reason why I had my headphones on..
<MonsterKiller> well, its seems to look more like /etc/rc.local than /etc/init.d/rc.local as the one in init.d looks like a script to run /etc/rc.local
<shauno> yeah.  you edit /etc/rc.local
<shauno> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/getting-started.html   isn't bad if you need a crash-course in upstart jobs.  /etc/rc.local is neat for avoiding upstart all together and just making it work
<MonsterKiller> thanks then guys :) much appreciated
<hamitron> oops ;)
 * zleap has podcast on now
<hamitron> for some reason, my vps has 2 rc.local files
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> guessing it is a hard link
<JGJones> Hi...
<JGJones> the libavcodec-dev in main repo - is this the full source code?
<JGJones> I mean...it can be compiled for h263 etc support?
<daubers> Evening
<hamitron> hi daubers
<shauno> hamitron: there are two.  /etc/init.d/rc.local is the upstart job, that runs /etc/rc.local proper.  one's for you to populate, one's so the boot thingie actually does it.   lovely messy.
<hamitron> ffs :/
<hamitron> why not give them different names?
<shauno> no idea :(
<ali1234> because /etc/init.d/rc.local is under package manager control
<ali1234> if you edited it it would bug you whenever there was an update
<shauno> having them two separate files makes perfect sense.  giving them the same name makes describing things from memory iffy
<Myrtti> *cough* language *cough*
<hamitron> I wish you guys had said this before I gave bad advice ;)
<shauno> heh, I was chasing the pizza guy because they can never find my house :/
<hamitron> Myrtti: you got highlights on for my slipups? :/
<hamitron> sorry (again) :\
<shauno> but it's cool.  he looked at the two files and figured it out himself.  you got him looking in the right place.  win-win.
<Myrtti> hamitron: no, I mention about slipups whenever I see them on Ubuntu IRC channels
<Myrtti> not just you :-)
<hamitron> I've never really modded the ubuntu files tbh
<hamitron> Myrtti: such a relief :)
<Myrtti> it's a reflex by now to be honest, been an op far too long
<hamitron> I do try to be nice :) just I slip into my way of talking when i start hammering keys passionately
<Myrtti> I've had to restrict myself lately in real life with the cussing, I've noticed that usually I just coax myself angrier when I cuss
<Myrtti> and that's not good for my blood pressure
<Myrtti> ooh, I forgot I could watch Wonders
<hamitron> Wonders?
<Myrtti> Wonders of the Universe
<MonsterKiller> okay. so, the scripts work fine but non of the things i put in /etc/rc.local were run
<MonsterKiller> i noticed /bin/sh /etc/init.d/rc 2 was run. idk if that has anything to do with it?
<shauno> it's not often I say this, but leave that bit alone and don't break it :)
<MonsterKiller> me?
<MonsterKiller> :P
<hamitron> and I will with-hold my advice, as I've been told off for encouraging wreckless actions before
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> yeah.  running rc 2 is integral to the boot process
<MonsterKiller> though is there a way to tell if /etc/rc.local was run and just errored?
<shauno> I'm pretty sure you're looking for the command update-rc.d, but I don't know the exact incantation offhand
<hamitron> has /etc/rc.local got the execute bit set?
<MonsterKiller> some commented out stuff then: sh /etc/init.d/zncstart start exit 0
<MonsterKiller> exit 0 is on a new line
<hamitron> ls -l /etc/rc.local
<hamitron> worth checking permissions
<MonsterKiller> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 503 Mar 29 23:49 /etc/rc.local
<hamitron> fine
<hamitron> have you tried "sh /etc/rc.local"?
<hamitron> as root ofc
<shauno> one thing I'd check is that you're using absolute paths wherever possible.  upstart runs with a very basic (but predictable) environment set
<MonsterKiller> yeah that seems to run everything
<MonsterKiller> well, if im correct '/bin/sh /etc/init.d/rc 2' would mean its running on runlevel 2. so maybe put a link to /etc/rc.local in /etc/rc2.d
<MonsterKiller> ?
<shauno> eg, su rob -c "znc" will only work if znc is in /bin or /usr/bin.  if it's anywhere else, you'll want su rob -c "/the/full/path/to/znc"
<hamitron> or setting the full path in the znc script
<hamitron> inside "zncstart" I mean
<shauno> and no promises $HOME is set so you might have to help it find any configuration files that aren't in the default places
<MonsterKiller> well, i ran the scripts seperatly and they seemed to work
<MonsterKiller> i tried the update-rc.d and got
<MonsterKiller> update-rc.d: warning: zncstart start runlevel arguments (2 3 4 5) do not match LSB Default-Start values (2 3 5)
<MonsterKiller> and one for stop too
<hamitron> if the script zncstart is simple, maybe better to just include it all in /etc/rc.local
<shauno> if they're just warnings, that may have worked
<hamitron> all good fun
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> :(  I can't pause the podcast
<msp301> exit
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 31st 21:00 GMT #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz: 16th April 21:00 | We're jammin' http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/687/detail/ | (
<Safiyyah> hi
<Safiyyah> Alanbell, popey, ali1234
<ali1234> hi
<Safiyyah> My system has crashed AGAIN, it happened after I loaded my USB mp3 player, it said something about it being read only and not being able to mount it
<ali1234> as always i need to see the full log
<Safiyyah> everything started freezing, and on reboot I got the black screen
<Safiyyah> ali1234,  am on live disk
<Safiyyah> but basically it couldnt not find root
<Safiyyah> and complained about corrupted files on dev/sda2
<AlanBell> hi Safiyyah
<ali1234> sounds bad
<AlanBell> ooh hat
<AlanBell> thats better
<Safiyyah> anyway... my problem is this is meerkat
<Safiyyah> lucid crashed on me too
<Safiyyah> it crashed after 4 months but it did the same thing
<Safiyyah> I never experienced any such issues with previous ubuntu versions
<ali1234> that sounds like a dying hard drive to me
<Safiyyah> except intrepid... that seemed to have a mind of it's own
<Safiyyah> it's only a year old
<Safiyyah> so meerkat took 3 weeks and it crashed
<Safiyyah> what do you all think?
<Safiyyah> ali1234,  why would it be dying when it is only a year old
<ali1234> sometimes they do
<ali1234> you should run a filesystem check on all drives and then check dmesg for errors
<willy_1977> 'ow do
<Safiyyah> okay am on live disk so please direct me step by step ali1234
<willy_1977> ali1234: saw your messages from last night about the gnome bug, thanks.
<ali1234> sudo fsck /dev/sda2
<ali1234> if it asks you if you want to repair say no for now
 * willy_1977 misread fsck :o
<ali1234> if it finishes, check dmesg
<Safiyyah> ali1234,  am on it
<Safiyyah> it seems stuck though
<ali1234> it will take a long time
<ali1234> it may also get stuck if the drive has physical errors
<ali1234> open a new shell and check dmesg
<ali1234> if you see a lot of lines like "end request: I/O error" it means the drive is broken
<dogmatic69> anyone know about mcrypt? how does it work between servers etc
<dogmatic69> will it always give the same value, no matter the server?
<nucc1> i would expect it to, whenever you use the same parameters. but i've never used it before.
<davmor2> czajkowski: poke, prod and general annoyance :P
<moreati> davmor2: good evening
<davmor2> moreati: morning
<Safiyyah> okay I am done
<Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/587063/
<Safiyyah> Alanbell, popey, ali1234
<ali1234> yeah, that looks bad
<Safiyyah> ali1234,  which lines?
<ali1234> line 321 to the end
<ali1234> ata3 is sda
<Safiyyah> okay so first things first
<ali1234> what did fsck say?
<Safiyyah> I need to back up evolution
<Safiyyah> ali1234,  I can't remember, running it again ... will paste bin it
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> don't run it again
<ali1234> you risk making the errors worse
<Safiyyah> okay is there a way to mount the drives
<ali1234> you can try to mount it read only
<ali1234> however anything you do with the drive will make it worse
<ali1234> like driving a car with no oil in the engine
<Safiyyah> I don't care about worse right now
<Safiyyah> I want to back up home directory
<Safiyyah> and get out
<Safiyyah> are u running meerkat btw?
<ali1234> sure
<moreati> ali1234: time for dd_rescue?
<ali1234> trouble with dd_recsue is you need another drive with more freespace than the broken drive
<ali1234> do you have that?
<Safiyyah> am searching the net for a new HDD as we speak
<Safiyyah> I have an external drive plugged in and ready
<Safiyyah> got 500gb
<ali1234> how much free space? how big is the internal?
<Safiyyah> 500gb
<Safiyyah> but lets say we actually have 400gb since I have used some
<ali1234> and how big is the internal drive?
<Safiyyah> the size of my home dir is 100gb and it isn't used up
<Safiyyah> internal is 500gb as well
<Azelphur> hey Safiyyah, havn't seen you about in a while :)
<Safiyyah> hey Azelphur.... you know am only here when I have a problem :P
<Azelphur> hehe
<moreati> Safiyyah: the critical question is how big is your home _partition_, because dd_rescue doesn't understand unused space
<Safiyyah> moreati, its 100gb
<ali1234> that is sda2?
<willy_1977> anyone got any advice: I want to start hacking on some of the bugs I've picked up, I'm happy writing code and compiling but the issue I have is where do I start with source control and branches, and how much do I need to worry about upstream/downstream I am sure I am not the first person to come into this and get these kind of issues I just want to get going but as yet have turned up blank on a beginners type guide to this stuff? So the question is
<willy_1977>  can anyone point me in that direction or has anyone got any time to get me going on a nice easy bug?
<phonex01_> hi
<phonex01_> how can i install vmware ?
<willy_1977> is it not in the software centre phonex01_ ?
<Azelphur> !virtualbox | phonex01_
<lubotu3> phonex01_: virtualbox is a x86 !virtualizer. A !free edition is available from the package 'virtualbox-ose'. A non-free edition is available at http://virtualbox.org for most Ubuntu releases (help in #vbox) - Setup details at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox
<Azelphur> phonex01_: tried ^ ?
<nucc1> Azelphur, he asked for vmware.
<phonex01_> no no man
<nucc1> i was about to say that the vmware installer should have instructions...
<Azelphur> nucc1: yea, but foss alternatives are nice to recommend :)
<phonex01_> it is not virtual box !
<phonex01_> VMware is not the same as virtulabox
<Azelphur> phonex01_: yea but have you tried it? virtualbox is actually very nice and a lot of people use it instead of vmware
<silner> I'm not nearly as happy about Vbox now Oracle are running the show :(
<phonex01_> yes im using it
<Azelphur> ok
<nucc1> Azelphur, not necessarily true when someone asks for a specific bit. besides, the OSE VirtualBox is crippled anyway :p
<Azelphur> then go google instructions for vmware :P
<phonex01_> but i have been told that VMwre is stronger ?
<phonex01_> and provide more options
<Azelphur> matter of opinion *shrug* I prefer virtualbox
<nucc1> vmware is actually better.
<ali1234> Safiyyah: pastebin the output of sudo fdisk -l please
<willy_1977> virtualbox ++ for me...
<nucc1> but virtualbox works well enough.
<Safiyyah> i don't get why I can't drug and drop from sda4
<Safiyyah> there are 2 files  I want from that
<Safiyyah> plus the home dir
<Azelphur> !vmware | phonex01_
<lubotu3> phonex01_: VMWare is not available in the Ubuntu repositories. Consider using !QEmu or !VirtualBox as alternatives. Instructions for installing VMWare manually are at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware
<ali1234> nucc1: OSE isn;t actually that crippled any more - eg it has usb support now
<willy_1977> phonex01_ try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Server
<willy_1977> oh
<Azelphur> he left xD
<nucc1> ali1234, really? i added the upstream repository a while back and stopped tracking OSE
<ali1234> nucc1: um yes... in 4.0.4 at least
<Azelphur> so yea I just sold my netbook, I wanna get a tablet/netbook convertible, any suggestions? :D I'd like it to be minecraft capable if possible
<Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/587074/
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: ipad :)
<Safiyyah> Could my processor be dying too?
<nucc1> wepad
<ali1234> dunno about other features, usb is the only one i missed
<ali1234> Safiyyah: no
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: how does that fit any of the requirements...at all? XD
<ali1234> Safiyyah: ok let's see /etc/fstab as well please
<willy_1977> dogmatic69: you owe me a new keyboard this one has now got tea in it...
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: its ~= tablet
<dogmatic69> willy_1977: lol
<silner> Most of the extra features Vmware has doesn't seem to be aimed at the average user
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: and you can hack minecraft onto it afaik
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: it's not a netbook tablet convertible, it can't run minecraft or Ubuntu, it's specs are crap, in general it's crap. Have I said crap enough yet? :P
<nucc1> silner, the ability to drag files from the host onto the guest is quite average user awesomeness to me.
<ali1234> Azelphur: obviously you need an ipad 2
<willy_1977> ali1234: lol
<Azelphur> OBVIOUSLY.
<hamitron> :/
<Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/587077/
<ali1234> but seriously though, it's going to have to be tegra, cos minecraft gets about 2 fps on pinetrail
<silner> nucc1, Did that arrive in later versions? Didn't think that was in 6 (last version I owned)
<Safiyyah> guys HELP the poor one over here please
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: ipad is pretty good, 2 should be better. it can run ubuntu and minecraft from what ive seen
<willy_1977> do you folks think my dev query would be better suited to a mailing list?
<ali1234> Safiyyah: damn i forgot you are on livecd
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: your forgetting the part where you can get better hardware for half the price
<Safiyyah> if I could log in, I would have backed up my data before having this conversation
<Safiyyah> lol
<willy_1977> proper intro and all that?
<nucc1> on vmware server, can't remember the version, but saw it as far back as july 2010.
 * hamitron is using livecd atm, because he doesn't know how to use MS Windows :/
<Azelphur> willy_1977: maybe
<Safiyyah> lol hamitron
<silner> nucc1, Oh I haven't used it that recently
<ali1234> Safiyyah: sudo apt-get install dd_rescue
<hamitron> Safiyyah: wish i was joking :D
<ali1234> Safiyyah:actually sudo apt-get install ddrescue
<Safiyyah> can you explain why we simply can't mount the drives and copy the specific files I am after
<silner> nucc1, might be worth looking at again, since the free player now installs systems as well as plays them - so I read anyway
<Safiyyah> its is literally evolution mail
<ali1234> Safiyyah: because as soon as you start using the drive it will give out hundreds of errors and then crash
<silner> nucc1, only free as in freeware of course
<nucc1> silner, but nowadays, virtualbox works well enough for my usecases, and is only an apt-get away.
<nucc1> silner, oh, i tend to use the version that works well, regardless of the License :p
<Safiyyah> so we will have to rescue and then I can delete what I didn't want?
<willy_1977> Azelphur: thanks, I'll give it a go in the morning - did post an irc in ubuntu-devel which I thought was general but people in there were busy so I'll keep digging I'm sure I'll get there it'll just take me longer :D
<ali1234> Safiyyah: no it doesn;t work like that
<Safiyyah> okay can you please explain what is going to happen?
<ali1234> Safiyyah: also ddrescue operation could take several hours
<ali1234> the whole partition will be copied to a working drive but while skipping errors
<silner> I don't virtualise much now - haven't needed to since OO got good enough at opening MSO files - and LO seems to be just as good in that respect
<ali1234> then you will run fsck on it to repair the working copy
<ali1234> then you will mount the repaired image and copy files
<Safiyyah> okay
 * willy_1977 is liking the new group your tabs thingy in FF4! and it's sped up somewhere so I guess my initial reservations were unfounded sorry FF4!
<Safiyyah> then I will be able to log in normally?
<ali1234> no
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: the battery life is awesome too, 10+ hours
<nucc1> silner, libreoffice still doesn't work well for ooxml files. and every once in a while, you come across something that has to be done on windows. My Virgin Media subscription for isntance, required me to run some silly software from windows in order to activate.
<nucc1> not to mention using Nokia PC suite
<hamitron> nucc1: your own fault for not using a proper ISP then
<hamitron> ;)
<nucc1> hamitron, virgin media gives the best deal around.
<willy_1977> right bed is calling g'night; as ever thanks for your useful input folks.
<Safiyyah> so if we don't get to go in and do a proper backup
<nucc1> no line rental nonsense.
<Safiyyah> what's the point
<silner> I tend to check with ISPs now and tell them I need it to be setup without using Windows
<ali1234> nucc1: you never used to have to run the VM installer
<hamitron> it is "the best" if you can't use it without paying Â£Â£Â£ for winblows
<silner> Phones are an issue though
<Safiyyah> am also not understanding why pluggin in my mp3 player brought all this about
<ali1234> nucc1: if you just plug in the modem and try to use it it takes you to the provisioning website which you can use manually
<silner> I can't use most of my phone's software unless I used Windows
<nucc1> ali1234, it refused to work in firefox in ubuntu.
<hamitron> certain hardware devices like phones, specilist programs and games
<silner> I don't bother - I'm not much of a phone user anyway
<ali1234> nucc1: find it hard to believe, i always used to do it from my firewall using lynx
<nucc1> ali1234, it didn't work for me. had to do it from IE in Windows.
<ali1234> Safiyyah: it didn't
<nucc1> silner, its one of the arcane reasons why i use Nokia phones. they use industry standards for most of their functionality.
<MonsterKiller> hey. so my rc.local file doesnt seem to be being run on system startup. the /etc/rc.local script runs fine and starts everything if i run it manually
<Safiyyah> so it was happening before and we didnt realise last time it broke?
<ali1234> probably
<MonsterKiller> cant work out whats wrong
<Safiyyah> u realise u guys helped me less than a month ago?
<ali1234> that was a totally different problem
<Safiyyah> still a broken system
<ali1234> not really
<Safiyyah> okay so is there a HDD drive brand I need to buy
<Safiyyah> cos this one lasted a year
<ali1234> no
<Safiyyah> A YEARRRRR
<ali1234> not maxtor
<nucc1> he he
<nucc1> ++^^
 * hamitron liked maxtor
<hamitron> :/
<Safiyyah> shortest lived ever!!
<nucc1> seagate rocks.
<ali1234> btw after recovering your data you should attempt to RMA it with the manufacturer
<ali1234> they all give at least 1 year guarantee, some give 3 or 5 years
<Safiyyah> do you think the large space is what is making them die fast
<ali1234> larger drives tend to die faster yes
<silner> nucc1, ali1234 With setting up ISP I just asked them the settings and ip address of the router webpage and set it up manually
<ali1234> high performance, shorter lifespan
<silner> It doesn't take very long
<hamitron> to fit more into less space, each section must get smaller
<silner> Maybe Virgin is especially hard?
<Safiyyah> so what size is a good size in order to avoud sudden death?
 * AlanBell waves http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/03/29/ubuntu-uk-virtual-jam/ and http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/globaljam2011
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 31st 21:00 GMT #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz: 16th April 21:00 | We're jammin' http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/globaljam2011
<hamitron> I'd just go with a seagate one at around 40 quid
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> Safiyyah: the trick to buying harddrives is x = price / capacity and then take the one with lowest x
<hamitron> or hitachi or samsung
<nucc1> silner, configuring the router is easy enough, most routers do DHCP. thing is, the connection won't work until you visit some special activation page and do some stuff. i forget. was 6 months ago.
<ali1234> but not maxtor
<nucc1> hitachi works quite well too.
<hamitron> not maxtor, no :) and I have a personal dislike of WD
<awilkins> I've had a couple of 750GB samsung spinpoints that have survived near constant use in an underventilated case for going on 5 or 6 years now
<nucc1> WD makes "proprietary" drives :p
<silner> nucc1, I think I read you could do the virgin activation over the phone, no?
<nucc1> silner, yea, i learnt that a bit late :p
<hamitron> nucc1: if only they didn't seem to die on me ALL the time
<awilkins> With Virgin all you seem to have to do is reboot the CM with the right MAC connected to it
<Safiyyah> i actually had a good experience with maxtor
<Safiyyah> for several years
 * hamitron too
<awilkins> If you switch network adapter on it, you need to reboot the modem
<Safiyyah> then it just poof died
<ali1234> maxtors are highly variable
<hamitron> I am on maxtor drives now
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> my oldest working harddrive is a maxtor
<nucc1> seagate here.
<silner> same here ali1234
<ali1234> but of all my drives, maxtors had the highest failure rate
<hamitron> my newer ones are seagate
<silner> ali1234, Well I say working but at 8GB I can't really use it any more :)
<hamitron> I have had 4 WD drives, and all failed in warrenty \o/
<ali1234> yeah i think mine is 8Gb too, must have been a good year
<hamitron> 1 even left a 3cm dent in a case :)
<hamitron> do samsung support hotplug?
<nucc1> does the port support hot-plug?
<hamitron> some
<hamitron> ;/
<nucc1> those IDE ports... wait, PCs still use IDE right? :p
<hamitron> just don't unmount the drive with the OS on....
<nucc1> you live dangerously.
<awilkins> I run off a USB drive at work and sometimes the cable jiggle unmounts it
<awilkins> Most irritating. But still more productive than Windows
<hamitron> sata2 hd caddy ftw ;)
<nucc1> awilkins, lol.
<ali1234> i think all sata drives support hotplug... not sure though
<awilkins> Can't boot of anything but first SATA port
<awilkins> And the case doesn't support standard 3.5" bay modules, or I would have already fitted one
<Safiyyah> hamitron WD is which company?
<nucc1> linux would rule the universe if only flash video was HW accelerated :/
<ali1234> western digital
<awilkins> Have to boot machine to Windows once a week to get DHCP lease also
<Safiyyah> nucc1 IDE... you might get 1 or 2 ports on the motherboard nowadays but everything is SATA now
<AlanBell> nucc1: so you are saying that open source would be wonderful if the closed source stuff was better
<awilkins> I might try an eSata cable and a thumbdrive with GRUB on it
<nucc1> AlanBell, i've come to realise that some things will never be opensource. i don't try to fight it.
<hamitron> awilkins: demand usb3
<hamitron> :)
<AlanBell> nucc1: sure, me neither
<hamitron> "I really can't work with this *, I need....."
<nucc1> AlanBell, and the wackness of flash makes it impossible for me to use my lovefilm subscription.
<nucc1> forces me to boot my ps3, and i hate having sony watch my every move.
<hamitron> is SSD more reliable?
<awilkins> hamitron, They ask stupid questions
<Safiyyah> ali1234,  i would like to mount the drive and copy my files over :)
<hamitron> SSD seems cheaper now
<awilkins> hamitron, Like "Why do you need 6GB of RAM when we only issue a 32-bit OS?"
<Safiyyah> there is nothing am saving anyway the thing is dead
<nucc1> awilkins, who asks such?
<awilkins> hamitron, 128GB SSD, was Â£120 at purchase but price has come down
<awilkins> nucc1, IT services, when you ask for more RAM
<ali1234> Safiyyah: did you install ddrescue yet?
<hamitron> 128Gb is plenty
<nucc1> awilkins, where did you find an SSD for 120 quid?
<hamitron> get SSD for 60 quid ;/
<awilkins> Might be 64GB
<nucc1> awilkins, everybody likes to feel important :)
<MonsterKiller> 64GB for Â£60
<MonsterKiller> :O
<hamitron> just not the best
<nucc1> 64G is too small.
<awilkins> Kingston, mine is
<MonsterKiller> 64GB are like Â£100
<awilkins> 64GB is ok
<nucc1> not enough for my music
<MonsterKiller> haha
<awilkins> Music is ~ 12GB
<awilkins> But for that I use a thumbdrive
<awilkins> Don't need lightning speed for music
<awilkins> Or any streaming media
<hamitron> I think it was 32 or 64Gb
<awilkins> Hell, get an SD card, most laptops have a slot now
<Safiyyah> we are no rescuing anything
<Safiyyah> not*
<nucc1> awilkins, i don't like having to plug any drives in order to access some files. might as well just use cloud storage.
<nucc1> but they cost too much.
<hamitron> 30 quid for a 8gb ssd
<hamitron> :D
<Safiyyah> how much is cloud storage?
<awilkins> nucci : If I was using an SD card I'd just keep it plugged in the slot
<Safiyyah> its' time I got cloud storage for real
<hamitron> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/248352
<Safiyyah> ded hard drives are becoming a pain
<nucc1> Safiyyah, to get the amount i need, it would cost less to just get a NAS
<awilkins> nucc1, It sits nice and flush with the case
<awilkins> I only dig the kind of cloud storage that's a backup for local storage
<awilkins> Pure cloud can sod off.
<nucc1> i don't buy that cloud hoopla either.
 * hamitron neither
<nucc1> i don't want to keep paying over and over for my stuff.
<hamitron> anyone tried these hybrid drives?
<awilkins> There was a ZDNet editor on radio 4 this PM hyping it up
<nucc1> hybrid should be an improvement. hamitron, which one?
<awilkins> "You don't want to be carrying hard drives everywhere"
<hamitron> seagate
<ali1234> well you don't
<nucc1> awilkins, i need symmetric bandwidth from my ISP so i can leave my laptop always on.
<nucc1> and run my own cloud :)
<ali1234> Safiyyah: you can try to mount the drive if you want
<nucc1> awilkins, it's what i currently do. grab my files by SSH-ing into my PC at home :)
<hamitron> nucc1: that just means they slow down your download speed and charge you for doing so
<Safiyyah> okay let me know how to mount from live disk please
<hamitron> ;)
<awilkins> Yeah, but cloud storage is only economic for small amounts of relatively small files, or you end up spending mucho deniro on either cloudspace or bandwidth
<ali1234> Safiyyah: sudo mkdir /media/home; sudo mount /dev/sda4 /media/home
<nucc1> ubuntu live CDs normally automount that stuff, right?
<Safiyyah> guys what do you think of this HDD http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-HD103SJ-internal-SATAII-7200RPM/dp/B002MQC0P8/ref=sr_1_cc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1301435673&sr=1-2-catcorr
<hamitron> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/233258
<hamitron> I'd go for lower rpm unless you really need high performance
<awilkins> $30 per year for 20GB is going to get expensive real fast compared to a few 2.5" hard drives
<Safiyyah> ali why is it sda4
<Safiyyah> am sure home is on sda3 or 2
<ali1234> Safiyyah: try sda2 then
<nucc1> Safiyyah, is that a laptop HDD???
<Safiyyah> nucci no a PC
<nucc1> err, no
<Safiyyah> ali1234
<Safiyyah> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo mount /dev/sda3 /media/home
<Safiyyah> mount: you must specify the filesystem type
<Safiyyah> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$
<awilkins> Safiyyah, use sudo fdisk -l to list available drives
<ali1234> awilkins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/587074/
<hamitron> Safiyyah: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/177466
<awilkins> Or have we already done that
<awilkins> Aha
<hamitron> just shop around really :/
<matti> issyl0: You alive?
<awilkins> Safiyyah, You trying to recover files from the Windows dirve?
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/ wow, no bbc
<Azelphur> Anyone here got a dell inspiron duo? :)
<ali1234> Safiyyah: from your paste, sda1 is /boot, sda2 ir /, sda3 is swap, sda4 is /home
<nucc1> he he
<nucc1> AlanBell, maybe they're moving to manchester by train :p
<ali1234> sorry, sda3 is extended, sda5 is swap
<ali1234> Azelphur: i tried one in a shop, it's nice
<Azelphur> ali1234: cool :D
<ali1234> Azelphur: the screen flip around method is very nice and stable
<Azelphur> nice
<Azelphur> reckon it could do minecraft? :)
<ali1234> dunno, what graphics does it have?
<hamitron> RAM is the main thing
<hamitron> ;/
<awilkins> Not sure Minecraft even uses accelerated graphics...
<Safiyyah> awilkins, no my ubuntu drive
<ali1234> it does
<Safiyyah> ali1234 i can now see the dir
<awilkins> \O/
<Safiyyah> but it wont allow me to copy of paste apparently I don't have rights
<matti> ;]
<Azelphur> ali1234: Intel GMA 3150
<ali1234> Safiyyah: you must do it on shell with sudo then
<directhex> awilkins, minecraft is pretty system-heavy
<directhex> it uses a LOT of opengl
<awilkins> Fairy snuff
<Safiyyah> blody hell
<Safiyyah> okay so it is dev sda 2 going to external hDD
<Safiyyah> this will be interesting.... how do you do that on a terminal
<awilkins> Safiyyah, Any number of ways :-)
<awilkins> What file system is the external HD?
<awilkins> Is it the NTFS drive?
<ali1234> it does't matter
<ali1234> just open in in nautilus
<nucc1> hamitron, http://www.ebuyer.com/product/222310
<ali1234> then you will have a corresponding folder in /media
<ali1234> then copy the files/folders with sudo cp -a
<awilkins> You can open nautilus from the command line with sudo to get a privileged nautilus
<ali1234> that would work too
<ali1234> gksudo nautilus
<hamitron> nucc1: also tempting :)
<hamitron> but tbh, I'd rather go small and fast
<ali1234> i'm still pretty sure that sda2 is / and so /home will be empty
<hamitron> so corsair hdd all the way for me
<hamitron> :)
<awilkins> is sda1 not root and sda4 some other data partition?
<Azelphur> ali1234: did you hear the graphics card on the inspiron duo? :)
<Azelphur> you was going to give me your opinion on minecraft :p
<ali1234> Azelphur: yeah, it will probably not be great
<Azelphur> I see
<hamitron> minecraft struggled in vmware workstation :/
 * awilkins wonders if VirtualBox would work OK with it because it at least tries to provide access to accelerator featues
<hamitron> doesn't vmware?
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> minecraft is java
<ali1234> why would you want to run it in vmware?
<hamitron> if vmware worked, I'd run everything in virtual machines
<hamitron> then leave the host OS naked
<Safiyyah> i don't know what file system my external disk has
<Safiyyah> i have just always copied and pasted to it
<awilkins> Why not run Java in vmware?
<ali1234> because there is no point?
<nucc1> java runs fine in linux
<hamitron> my host OS is windows...
<hamitron> ;)
<MonsterKiller> lol
<hamitron> and we all know what happens when you install too much on windows
<hamitron> \o/
<nucc1> the question is, why is your host OS windows. but i guess we don't need to know.
<hamitron> games
<hamitron> ;/
<MonsterKiller> anyone able to help me with rc.local? it still doesnt seem to run on system startup.
<ali1234> gaimz
<Safiyyah> ali1234,  how do I copy these files???
<nucc1> MonsterKiller, how so?
<ali1234> Safiyyah: gksudo nautilus
<awilkins> I have a VM for VB6 developement (don't ask) and it's snappier than the host machine it runs in because it's free of all the cruftware
<ali1234> then use that window to copy them
<Safiyyah> thank you
<MonsterKiller> none of the things in the rc.local run when the system starts but if i run the rc.local manually they all run fine
<MonsterKiller> using ubuntu server 10.10
<hamitron> MonsterKiller: cat /etc/init.d/rc.local |less
<nucc1> MonsterKiller, odd one there. don't think i can help much. i thought perhaps you had faulty commands in them.
<Safiyyah> it's working.... yeiiiii
<Safiyyah> I can breathe
<hamitron> check it is setup to run
<Safiyyah> right time to install flash and start living in live disk mode for today
<hamitron> also check execution bit is set on /etc/init.d/rc.local
<MonsterKiller> http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbjhwhbjzhbjrr and i have an /etc/rc.local http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbjhwhbkkkhwez
<MonsterKiller> if i run them manually they work fine
<Safiyyah> ali1234, hamitron what was the verdict on the HDD I chose?
<Safiyyah> I am concerned about it being 1TB
<hamitron> you can't get a small hdd now
<nucc1> unless you want to buy a used one.
<hamitron> :/
<awilkins> Fewer platters is probably the closest you get to "small"
<hamitron> so imo, 1Tb is a good choice for capacity, unless you want to consider SSD
<awilkins> Less strain on the old motors
<nucc1> do SSDs do wear levelling on their own, or do you still need to use special filesystems?
<Safiyyah> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004J35JZ0/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&s=computers&psc=1
<Safiyyah> or this other one
<awilkins> nucc1, They wear level themselves. It helps if your OS supports TRIM commands (newer ones do)
<Safiyyah> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-Barracuda-7200-12-Internal-7200RPM/dp/B001IKKCLS/ref=sr_1_cc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1301435673&sr=1-1-catcorr
<MonsterKiller> i also tried putting the command in /etc/init.d/rc.local and they didnt run
<Safiyyah> samsung vs seagate?
<MonsterKiller> commands*
<nucc1> awilkins, in terms of Linux (perhaps ubuntu versions), what does newer mean?
<awilkins> nucc1, Linux has had TRIM support much longer than Windows has
<directhex> get the samsung!
<directhex> i've always liked their spinning discs.
<nucc1> awilkins, he he. i only use windows in a VM. I guess i'd be aiming for an SSD then.
<awilkins> nucc1, Since february 2010
<nucc1> i have always feared to spend so much money on a drive that may not last as long as a cheaper spinning disk.
<hamitron> directhex: how hot do you find they get?
<awilkins> Win 7 supported it in October 2009 but I don't count that as more recent because no-one in corporations had it then :-)
<directhex> hamitron, cool to the touch
<hamitron> my maxtors breath fire
<hamitron> :(
<directhex> hamitron, samsung are VERY conservative with platter density compared to the competition
<directhex> hamitron, so they don't get as hot
<hamitron> directhex: wanna try hotplug for me?
<hamitron> ;)
<directhex> not on my root drive, no
<hamitron> it is my latest craze
<Safiyyah> wth is an SSD?
<hamitron> solid state drive
<nucc1> a flash drive shaped to look like a hard drive :p
<awilkins> nucc1, Been running a Kingston SSD as a development box running a lot of data-heavy workloads for at least a year now and no failures yet :-)
<directhex> hamitron, i have two samsungs in here, a 1T root disk, and a 2T disk i transferred my home server's contents onto when i decommissioned it
<awilkins> nucc1, All the SMART data basically says "nothing wrong with this at all"
<Safiyyah> waitttt a minute
<Safiyyah> SSD on wikipedia sounds good
<nucc1> awilkins, ah, smart data only says something is wrong *when* the drive fails :))
<Safiyyah> so what was the reason I should get a HDD instead of a SSD?
<nucc1> Safiyyah, cost and capacity.
<hamitron> directhex: do you find you have hdd dedicated to "old files" like me? ;D
<AlanBell> SSD is smaller and more expensive
<awilkins> Safiyyah, Price ; SSDs cost much money for the space
<AlanBell> however go for it if you want one
<HazRPG> \o
<awilkins> Safiyyah, OTOH, they are lightning fast (especially at accessing lots of small files in comparison to a spinny disk)
<awilkins> Safiyyah, Good for e.g. Java development where lots of JAR files need loading
<hamitron> not so good if you like a large collection of blue movies ;/
<awilkins> Safiyyah, Good if you need silent, or cool running. No point if you want to archive TBs of media
<directhex> Safiyyah, a 500GB HDD is Â£30, a 500GB SSD is Â£1050
<nucc1> hamitron, why would anyone want to store movies with colour coding issues?
<awilkins> Safiyyah, Durable also - very good as a portable drive. Killed about 3 x 2.5" spinny laptop drives in a year. SSD has been dropped roughly at least 5 times and hasn't skipped a beat
<hamitron> nucc1: hehe
<nucc1> :p
<Safiyyah> lol so basically... wait till they get cheaper
<hamitron> would a SSD be good in a USB 3.0 enclosure?
<nucc1> Safiyyah, i've been waiting for 2 years :p
<nucc1> still too expensive
<Safiyyah> they are great but expensive
<awilkins> Safiyyah, depends on your cost / benefit
<Safiyyah> lol nucc1 what size are you waiting for
<directhex> ref: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/500gb-hitachi-0f10381-deskstar7k1000c-sata-3gb-s-7200-rpm-16mb-cache-85-ms versus http://www.scan.co.uk/products/480gb-ocz-technology-ibis-series-hsdl-sandforce-1222-read-740mb-s-write-720mb-s-120k-iops
<nucc1> Safiyyah, 256GB.
<awilkins> For my purposes (portable drive for Java development) the Â£120 for 64GB was well worth it
<hamitron> the SSD I want is 90 quid
<hamitron> :)
<awilkins> Already paid for itself in terms of not-being-dead like the spinning disks were
<Safiyyah> nucci thats 250 quid at amazon
<nucc1> if i choose to downgrade to 64G, i'd have to invest in some NAS in order to keep my media accessible. the costs stack up.
<awilkins> Never mind that they had 500GB of space - I wasn't using it all anyway
<AlanBell> night all o/
<nucc1> nighty
<hamitron> nn AB
<AlanBell> do feel free to propose sessions for Saturday -> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/globaljam2011
<hamitron> nucc1: yeh, guess I have collected loads of other junk to store stuff on :)
<Safiyyah> directhex,  i think you had extra money to burn and i dont
<Safiyyah> right back to reality
<Safiyyah> aka HDD.... SDD = dreaming
<Safiyyah> SSD*
<nucc1> Safiyyah, just get the 1TB drive and put your PC to sleep when it's idle :)
<Daviey> oh wow, BBC's new website is awesome.
<hamitron> awilkins: does this one outperform yours? http://www.ebuyer.com/product/233258
<Safiyyah> okay
<nucc1> Daviey, lol
<awilkins> hamitron, Very likely, yes, mine's just a Kingston
<Daviey> I love their new layout... it's not been long since their last refresh
<nucc1> Daviey, the site is unavailable.
<nucc1> maybe my DNS it caching too much.
<Daviey> nucc1, sad4u :)
<awilkins> hamitron, OTOH, this one wasn't available 300 days ago (drive has 112 days power-on time, figure it must be on about 1/3rd of the time)
<nucc1> Daviey, seriously, it's not down?
<Safiyyah> nucc1,  perhaps buy the smalled 60gb and have a HDD as a secondary drive for media?
<nucc1> Safiyyah, usb drives are too clumsy to manage.
<awilkins> Safiyyah, as a boot drive, an SSD rocks
<hamitron> awilkins: yeh, earlier last year I'd of gone kingston
<awilkins> Safiyyah, You may have a spare 2.5" bay you can mount an SSD in
<nucc1> i might eventually get a 128G drive, and downgrade my music bitrates
<nucc1> 'nother problem is where to keep my VM Virtual disks.
<hamitron> I refuse to re-encode music
<hamitron> 128k all the way
<hamitron> :)
<nucc1> not re-encode, downgrade for new files.
<nucc1> my files range from 96k (back when i had a 20G HDD) all the way to FLAC (nowadays)
<hamitron> I just use basic mp3, so all my devices support them
<nucc1> rhythmbox does a good job of transcoding.
<hamitron> my mp3 player stick only has 128mb
<nucc1> and it doesn't take much time on modern core 2 duos.
<hamitron> transcoding != good
<hamitron> ;/
 * awilkins picks devices that support OGG
<hamitron> awilkins: ogg wasn't around :/
<nucc1> nokia doesn't support ogg. my phone is my media player.
<awilkins> This pretty much limits me to i) computers ii) N900 iii) iRiver iv) Samsung YP series
<hamitron> transcoding you lose quality :/
<nucc1> hamitron, not if you're transcoding from extreme bitrates.
<hamitron> awilkins: I have oggplay for symbian :)
<nucc1> not noticeably anyway.
<nucc1> hamitron, anything that doesn't integrate with the default media player is not good enough.
<nucc1> most third-party media players spend more time trying to make fancy graphics than they do making the app usable.
 * awilkins notes that Android supports Vorbis
<nucc1> there's winamp for android too
<nucc1> which always supported vorbis
<hamitron> the nokia mp3 player on the ngage is something I can miss ty ;)
 * hamitron shudders at the thought of using it
<nucc1> just might jump into the half-open android scene eventually
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> I refuse
<hamitron> so many people moving to android, and I don't like doing what is normal
<nucc1> i'm thinking of a more radical thing, like giving up smartphones alltogether.
<hamitron> building your own?
<nucc1> lol
<awilkins> I was on a crappy old RAZR for years
<nucc1> using a candybar.
<nucc1> yea.
<hamitron> I am tempted
<nucc1> i've always been a nokia user though, and the 6300 was my all time favourite.
<awilkins> Wifelet is still using a 3310 candybar but she's ready to throw it out the window now - needs a new phone that befits her new job
<nucc1> one that needs charging every 3 hours :)
<nucc1> he he.
<hamitron> what you get for playing snake all the time ;/
<nucc1> saw a blog post somewhere about some dude in IT support lamenting the case of a lady who returned her blackberry that the battery wasn't good.
<nucc1> she was used to her old candybar lasting 3 days.
<nucc1> and the "upgrade" became a less than a full-day device
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> I need coffee
<hamitron> brb :)
<nucc1> i need yogurt. off to the fridge
<awilkins> I had to learn to manage my running application profile to get a full day :-)
<hamitron> bk
<hamitron> anyone tried Windows Thin PC CTP yet?
<HazRPG> \o/ hamitron
<HazRPG> nope...
<HazRPG> why?
<hamitron> just wondering
<hamitron> gonna try it
<hamitron> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-30
<nucc1> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0102ft4/Click_26_03_2011/
<nucc1> Click talking about hard drives :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Ubuntu-UK Virtual Jam - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/03/29/ubuntu-uk-virtual-jam/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-uk-virtual-jam
 * penguin42 doubts you can spread virtual jam on toast; or perhaps you need virtual toast
<penguin42> has anyone got a Maverick box in front of them they can try something quick with?
<penguin42> hohum
<Azelphur> I feel like I'm in an adventure game lol
<Azelphur> The lock on my door broke, so I'm locked in
<Azelphur> "Using the tools you have, break out of the room xD"
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/household-safety/security/lock-picking.htm
<Azelphur> I don't think picking it will work, something snapped inside the lock
<Azelphur> and now I can turn the key 360
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I asked in #hardware, seems like the best approach is to take the door off the hinges haha
<ging> Azelphur: do you have beer and food?
<Azelphur> I have food, no beer :(
<ging> what sort of food
<Azelphur> uhh, jaffa cakes, kitcates, chocolate fingers, some crisps, toffee crisps, mars bar
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> kitkats*
<MartijnVdS> next best approach is "kick the door"
<MartijnVdS> or "use a window"
<Azelphur> use the window has been suggested, however I'm not suicidal right now :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you're not on ground level?
<Azelphur> nope, third story.
<MartijnVdS> â« Spider-Azelphur, Spider-Azelphur.. ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I think I have it now, with the power of internets
<MartijnVdS> can't you VOIP-call a locksmith? :)
<Azelphur> I have a real phone :P
<MartijnVdS> no problem then
<Azelphur> in fact I have 2 real phones and a VOIP phone, and a toolkit
<Azelphur> indeed :D
<Azelphur> but it's much quicker to just ask the internet, it's already solved in theory
<Azelphur> I can just remove the pins from the hinges and take the door out
<Azelphur> I'll do it at like 9am when everyone is awake
<MartijnVdS> What if you have to pee?
<Azelphur> then I'll have to hold it :D
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> that might be easy at first..
<Azelphur> just had another cool idea to make it even earlier than 9am
<Azelphur> I can just xmessage the TV
<Azelphur> having a linux powered tv: priceless
<HazRPG> erm...
<HazRPG> ..... xD
<Azelphur> lol
 * HazRPG 's notes to self: Always keep toolbox handy
 * HazRPG and a linux box in each room
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> gonna ping my mums laptop too actually
 * HazRPG all else fails, pretend to be in an action movie and KICK THE MOFO DOOR DOWN :D
<Azelphur> should let me know one way or another when she's awake xD
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> guessing your in your room
<HazRPG> ...hang on mum? Still with the parents? (that must suck :()
<Azelphur> hehe yea, I'm in my room
<HazRPG> I say, kick the door down ;)
<Azelphur> haha, I'm not there yet
<HazRPG> are the hinges actually on your side of the door?
<HazRPG> (notices how the hinges on the door in the room he's currently in are on the other side of the door)
<HazRPG> hang on, you lock your door?
<Azelphur> yea, my hinges are on the inside
<Azelphur> and yea I do
<HazRPG> ... my mother never even closes the door when she goes to the bathroom!
<Azelphur> haha
<HazRPG> nevermind locking any doors
<Azelphur> my dad isn't exactly trustworthy
<Azelphur> and we have lodgers too
<HazRPG> ah
<Azelphur> although I trust the lodgers more than I trust my dad XD
<HazRPG> see that I can understand
<HazRPG> I use to lock my room whenever I wasn't in it
<HazRPG> just because my dad would suddenly decide "room looks a tip, lets chuck it all out"
<HazRPG> heh, wow really?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I do both, when I'm in the room nobody has any respect and just walks straight in without knocking usually making me jump out of my skin because I have headphones on :p
<Azelphur> or my mum had a nice habbit of walking in while I was in bed and leaving the door wide open, usually when we had guests
<HazRPG> >_<
<Azelphur> and when I'm not in the room my dad/brother like to come in and help themselves, and when it's my dad it's never to be seen again
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> I can relate to that
<Azelphur> doubt it, my dads had a pc, 3 laptops, countless toys and random artifacts off me over the years
<Azelphur> :p
<HazRPG> I can still relate ;)
<Azelphur> fun
<HazRPG> not really :P
<HazRPG> missing stuff = bad :P
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> not so much missing when you know where it is though :)
<HazRPG> yeah, but you "miss" having it... sorta the same thing
<Azelphur> spose xD
<czajkowski> Aloha
<HazRPG> czajkowski: howdy :)
<HazRPG> czajkowski: and good morning
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> oh wow, just realised it was 30th of march!
<HazRPG> argh! I'm chairing tomorrow >_<
 * HazRPG enters minor panic mode
<shauno> morning
<shauno> how do they ship something from the UK and give me an estimated delivery for the 6th.  They could swim here faster than that!
<Azelphur> I think I grumbled about a company about that once
<Azelphur> I Worked out that at average walking speed I could walk there and pick it up faster than they could deliver it
<shauno> google maps says it'd take me 8 hours to drive or 3 days, 4 hrs to walk
<Azelphur> xD
<shauno> still .. ugh.
<shauno> I want new toys :o(
<HazRPG> shauno: mornin dude
<HazRPG> :(
<HazRPG> companies suck lol
<HazRPG> you'd think they'd want to get it out fast, that way they have more space for other stuff
<HazRPG> either that or they're tight, and want to wait until they can pump out everything in one shipment
<shauno> nah it's out, I just don't get why ups want a week to get it here
<AlanBell> morning all
<HazRPG> shauno: could be customs?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: morning :)
<kaushal> hi
<HazRPG> hmm, interesting question for ya... does radvd always dish the same IP to the same machines?
<shauno> if it's doing stateless discovery, sort of.  they're done by mac address, so the same network interface will always get the same address
<kaushal> when i run dmidecode i get Type: Unknown Speed: Unknown in http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/587238/
<kaushal> Any clue ?
<HazRPG> shauno: ah sweet
<Azelphur> HazRPG: I'm on my way to freedom... http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110330_083108.jpg
<shauno> I'm not gonna ask =x
<Azelphur> shauno: my door lock broke, I've been trapped in my room for the past 4 hours
<Azelphur> xD
<shauno> lmfao
<shauno> sorry
<shauno> broke in what way?
<HazRPG> hehe, wow... you totally hacked that door?
<shauno> *gibson
<Azelphur> I turned the key, something snapped, and now I can just turn the key 360 and nothing happens
<HazRPG> shauno: key could twist 360 in the key hole :P
<Azelphur> people are saying I broke the pins
<HazRPG> Azelphur: have you actually just been sat bashing on the door to get to the lock?
<HazRPG> told ya would have been easier to just kick it in :P
<shauno> that doesn't sound right.  the key can rotate past the pins normally
<Azelphur> I've been crowbaring the wood with a hammer
<HazRPG> shauno: I agree
<hoover> mornin
<Azelphur> well I don't know fuck all about locks
<Azelphur> all I know is I put the key in, something snapped, and now the key rotates 360 and doesn't unlock the door
<HazRPG> Azelphur: if anything sounds like your missing a pin on the inside
<HazRPG> lock picking it would have been easier personally
<Azelphur> I assumed I couldn't pick it baring in mind the key wouldn't unlock it
<HazRPG> my friend tried to teach me how to lock-pick one time on this padlock he'd been practising for months with
<HazRPG> ...took me 5 mins and I was in, dead easy
<HazRPG> never done it before, but was really really easy
<Azelphur> :)
<HazRPG> esp. since I already knew the general concept behind a lock
<shauno> lockpicking is disturbingly easy, in most cases
<Azelphur> but yea I doubt you can pick a lock if the key won't unlock it
<shauno> exactly
<HazRPG> I'm sure you can
<HazRPG> you just need to be pressing the right bits
<Azelphur> HazRPG: It doesn't make logical sense to me, if you can't use a key to unlock a door, then you can't use a lockpicking kit to emulate a key to unlock a door
<shauno> pressing the right bits lets you rotate the key far enough to actuate the next part of the mechanism
<shauno> if the key can spin freely, that actuator is gone / stuck
<AlanBell> maybe broke or jammed some of the springs that push the pins in
<AlanBell> so yeah, unpickable
<AlanBell> and in any case you have gone past the point of no return with that door
<shauno> heh, yeah, it's a bit late for subtle solutions there :p
<HazRPG> yeah kinda :P
<Azelphur> FUCK YEA FREEDOM
<Azelphur> \o/
<HazRPG> Azelphur: erm... also, lock picking set not needed (makes it easier but not necessary). Two paper clips is all you need
<AlanBell> um Azelphur don't make me tell you off for language
<HazRPG> Azelphur: pics or it didn't happen :P
<AlanBell> but well done for getting out :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: also, gratz :D
<HazRPG> I remember getting locked into the bathroom for hours... wasn't fun :/
<Azelphur> HazRPG: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110330_084254.jpg xD
<HazRPG> also the reason I ripped out the internal lock part out completely
<Azelphur> also my door now has a bathroom-style slider lock.
<Azelphur> lol
<HazRPG> and instilled the "if its shut and/or lights are on... someone's in there" etc
<HazRPG> Azelphur: \o/
<shauno> my missus has a habit of not shutting the door.  or turning the light on.  it can be a bit startling in the small hours
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> I've never seen anyone other than my mum do that
<TheOpenSourcerer> ZOMG! This is one scary video of the tsunami in Japan.. http://theweek.com/article/index/213658/japan-the-most-horrifying-tsunami-video-yet
<HazRPG> actually wait, my gran does that too :/
<shauno> thankfully I do use the light, so the full nightmare scenario has never transpired
<HazRPG> nothing worse then being a kid... and running to the toilet for a nasty surprise!
<popey> my 7 year old is the only person who shuts the loo door in our house
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm pretty sure that's an old video..
<popey> define $OLD
<popey> I saw it about a week ago
<popey> but hey ho, tragedy etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> What amazed me was how high the water level rose. The bloke with the camera must have been making a mess in his underpants
<shauno> almost related, this kinda thing bugs me in news articles: "Photo: YouTube   See all 27 photos"
<shauno> I don't think citing 'youtube' is proper attribution, and giving us a slideshow of screengrabs instead of linking to the youtube video, so you can't find out who the proper attribution actually is ..
<HazRPG> shauno: click the photo link of those... and citation of the poster is included
<HazRPG> however I agree
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: how's v6 treating you? :)
<HazRPG> I think mainly because some people may be reading this, and may have youtube blocked
<shauno> ah, the rest aren't screengrabs, just the one they attributed to 'youtube'
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: like a dream <3
<MooDoo> hello all
<HazRPG> MooDoo: howdy squire :)
<MooDoo> :)
<danfish> morning
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: currently just back tracing it so that I can post about it :)
<danfish> browsing through the natty iso's I see that a powerpc version is back on the cards. A bit of a surprise.
<shauno> re earthquake tho, I did find this interesting; https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/InsideSystemStorage/entry/ibm_japan_mailbag_of_interesting_reactions7
<shauno> lesson: leave some slack in the cables :)
<HazRPG> shauno: ironically I always so xD
<HazRPG> do*
<HazRPG> danfish: hmm, interesting?
<HazRPG> danfish: wonder why that is...
<shauno> I didn't think the ppc version actually went away?  just became a community port rather than a supported release
<HazRPG> are there still many powerpc's on the go? I mean I know ps3's use it, and older Apple products...
<HazRPG> maybe they've just recently hired someone to maintain it again :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: The most common radiation-hardened CPU (for space use) is a RAD750 (basically a PowerPC 750)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD750
<MartijnVdS> only $200k, or 2p
<shauno> ppc still seem to figure a lot in supercomputers .. they're just disappearing from desktops at fast rate
<danfish> it was just odd how 'official' support vanished and now has come back. Time to dust off the old G4 ibook :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: http://ipv6.he.net/certification/scoresheet.php?pass_name=hazrpg \o/
<shauno> you sure it's official?  that'd seem like a very odd move
<HazRPG> erm, I don't think its actually official
<danfish> by official, I mean listed on the page at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<HazRPG> I just have a feeling the alpha/beta servers that compile the code and convert to iso still have ppc as one of the options
<HazRPG> I'm pretty sure the others had alpha/betas of ppc
<danfish> HazRPG: not happened in previous releases IIRC
<HazRPG> *shrug(
<HazRPG> *shrug*
<AlanBell> http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/content/government-ict-strategy interesting stuff in there
<danfish> AlanBell: good to see some mention of SME's
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: woohoo! :)
<AlanBell> very much so
<TheOpenSourcerer> I like the section on Governance. They do seem to want to actually see it implemented this time too.
<AlanBell> and that open source advisory panel sounds interesting
 * AlanBell jumps up and down shouting "pick me, pick me" like donkey in shrek
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed - I can think of several people who would be very good on that.
<popey> AlanBell: added a new page about teh wiki to the global jam pad
<popey> to make the audit easier
<AlanBell> nice
 * danfish nominates the alans for the OS advisory board ;)
<gord> if anyone wants to triage unity bugs at a global jam, i will make you so much cake. we get compiz bugs filed against us and indicator bugs and appmenu bugs and gah - more bugs come in than we can triage most days
<danfish> AlanBell: d'ya think that'll work?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 39. The Government believes that citizens should be able to read  government documents with the standardised document format reader of  their choice. The first wave of compulsory open standards will  determine, through open consultation, the relevant open standard for all  government documents.
<gord> mostly dupes and things filed against the wrong project thankfully
<TheOpenSourcerer> On DFD too :-)
<AlanBell> gord: pick a time slot
<AlanBell> gord: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/globaljam2011
<popey> be nice to have some simple docs or links to existing docs about what to do with unity/compiz bugs
<JGJones> TheOpenSourcerer, That should apply to video codecs then (they make sign language videos) as well as audio transcripts for the blind.
<AlanBell> "mandatory open standards" wow, they said they wouldn't use the M word
<TheOpenSourcerer> it is available in ODF: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sites/default/files/resources/uk-government-ict-strategy-2011_0.odt
<AlanBell> document properties title: "Cabinet Office word template - 2009"
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> hehe
<popey> you l33t hax0r
<AlanBell> oh come on, does anyone not go to file-properties first before reading a document?
<oimon> AlanBell: yep, i always do!
<diplo> Can't say I ever do
<diplo> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's critical when exporting to PDF from OOo. Else the properties title is what you get in the header.
<AlanBell> there are so often juicy leftovers in there
<JGJones> bah
<JGJones> it would seem that I can't use libavcodec in ubuntu main to compile for h263/h263+ support
<JGJones> I just get an error
<MartijnVdS> probably because of patents
<AlanBell> JGJones: codecs have been mentioned as things that should be included in the scope of government using open standards
<TheOpenSourcerer> They formed a section in the questionnaire I completed recently.
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, yeah I figured...excuse me if I'm getting this wrong, but aren't libavcodec-DEV in source code? Patents don't cover source code I believe (as it's freedom of speech)
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: -dev are just development headers, used to link your program to libavcodec
<AlanBell> JGJones: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/content/uk-government-open-standards-survey
<AlanBell> patents do cover source code, where they are valid
<AlanBell> patents restrict ideas
<AlanBell> copyright restricts the expression of ideas
<bigcalm> Morning kids
<AlanBell> and copyleft is full of win
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, so...that would mean I need a libavcodec-dev that does include the codecs - would I be able to install these debian packages on Ubuntu 10.10 - http://www.debian-multimedia.org/dists/testing/main/binary-i386/
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: I'd go with the Medibuntu versions myself
<AlanBell> !info libavcodec-dev
<lubotu3> libavcodec-dev (source: ffmpeg): development files for libavcodec. In component main, is optional. Version 4:0.6-2ubuntu6 (maverick), package size 2595 kB, installed size 6460 kB
<AlanBell> !info libavcodec
<lubotu3> Package libavcodec does not exist in maverick
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, There's no libavcodec-dev in Medibuntu
<AlanBell> JGJones: what are you trying to do?
<JGJones> I'm compiling libopal files for Ekiga so that I can enable h263/h263+/h264
<HazRPG> ooo I got replies from the CumbriaLUG!
<HazRPG> ... a fair number of replies too!
<HazRPG> Although, I can see why its pretty much dead... seems most of them have moved away for better jobs
<JGJones> As I would like a video softphone based on either SIP/H323 so that I can make calls to a video relay service in development - but I need something better than a h261 video codec (h263/h264 are supported only)
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: there is..
<MartijnVdS> or there used to be anyway
<MartijnVdS> it might be in multiverse now
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: did you hear that I'm free now
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, http://packages.medibuntu.org/maverick/index.html - no -dev packages there and I do have universe and multiverse enabled.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you escaped your prison?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: indeed, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110330_084254.jpg
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: hardcore :)
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: no idea then, sorry.
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, No problem, thanks anyway :-)
<JGJones> I'll try with the Debian Multimedia packages then.
<JGJones> All this would have been much easier if Ekiga supported gstreamer
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: so now that I need a new door, I was thinking I should do something cool with it xD
<Azelphur> like bluetooth unlocking or something
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.howtogeek.com/news/super-secret-door-top-stash-hides-your-flash-drive-and-cash-diy/3877/
<MartijnVdS> http://makeprojects.com/Project/Doortop-Stash/638/1
<Azelphur> that'd be cool for leaving in the house after you move so somebody will randomly find it
<Azelphur> but I want something so that I don't have to carry a stupid chunk of metal
<bigcalm> Some evil genious thought that it would be good to put #123 html codes into some file names. Now rsync can't stat the files
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: oh it's your front door, not the door to a room?
<Azelphur> it's the door to a room
<popey> replace (the now broken) lock with a smaller one?
<popey> and put the key on the same keyring as your house key
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's not just the lock that's broken
<Azelphur> popey: did you see what I did to the door to get out lol
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> popey: the problem wasn't that I forgot the key, the lock brock
<Azelphur> broke*
<Azelphur> and I was trapped inside :p
<popey> i didnt say it was
<popey> i know
<popey> 09:55:01 < Azelphur> but I want something so that I don't have to carry a stupid chunk of metal
<popey> I was addressing that specific point
<Azelphur> ah :p
<Azelphur> that's still carying a chunk of metal though :(
<MartijnVdS> you could make it a lock-free door
<popey> most other people are capable of doing that quite happily and get on with their lives
<MartijnVdS> as in.. just like normal "inside" doors
<popey> obsessing about a key is possibly over obsessing
<Azelphur> haha I'm not obsessing, I just think it'd be cool to do something else with it given the opportunity.
<popey> london hackspace have a nice rfid tag based thing
<popey> could do sommat like that?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: true but that would involve random pillaging of my stuff and room entering while I'm asleep :)
<Azelphur> popey: sounds cool :D
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that happens? :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: more than you might think back before I didn't lock it.
<MartijnVdS> Ah, the blessings of living alone :P
<popey> s/alone/with normal people/
<MartijnVdS> popey: not in my case
<popey> i was citing my case
<popey> although..
<MartijnVdS> "normal" people :P
<czajkowski> MORNING my dears!
<popey> last night sophie wandered into my bedroom and slept in my bed
<MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
<popey> so i slept downstairs
<popey> couldn't move her
<Azelphur> indeed, living with normal people sounds good \o/
<oimon> Azelphur: do you live with family or random housemates?
<MartijnVdS> popey: too tired after writing Python code all night? :)
<Azelphur> oimon: family lol
<shauno> Azelphur: I wouldn't worry about nerding up the door for now.  just get it working.  most fun solutions go in the door frame, not the door itself
 * oimon wonders what you have to hide :P
<czajkowski> The folks on @uupc are running a Ubuntu UK Fortunes - tinyurl.com/uupcfortunes this will be done in two weeks time, fill it in :D
<shauno> Azelphur: once you get to nerding it up, the google-fu you want is "electric door strike"  :D
<Azelphur> oimon: here's a short list off the top of my head of some of the things my dad has stolen off me: 3 laptops, a PC, an Amiga, around 500 games for said amiga, a playstation, a sega saturn, a sega megadrive, at least 15 toolkits of various types, at least 3 USB cables, at least 5 ethernet cables
<popey> \o/ family fortunes
<Azelphur> I got bored, I could go on.
<oimon> Azelphur: i think you need a safe.
<Azelphur> oimon: or a door lock :D
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Install a coil of wire in the door frame (like in Cryptonomicon) :))
<Azelphur> but yea rfid locks using electronic door strikes look interesting :D
<oimon> Azelphur: are you the one with broadband usage issues cos ur dad won't get another ISP?
<Azelphur> I found one that has a key too in case of power outage
<Azelphur> oimon: yup
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Open the door with your Oyster card ;)
<Azelphur> haha, oyster cards :D
<Azelphur> I'm not in London, we don't have them out here
<shauno> Azelphur: how it tends to work is that the door stays "locked", but the strike (the metal plate the lock latches into in the frame" has a moving part that'll "give" at 12 volts.
<Azelphur> I see, so if I have the rfid on me and I walk near the door, it'll unlock?
<oimon> my door at work uses a keypass but unlocks in case of fire
<shauno> so to open it, you either unlock the door to open it as normal, or feed 12v into the strike so that the lock doesn't matter.  the regular lock in the door is always the failsafe
<diplo> Better solution Azelphur
<diplo> move in to your own place ?
<Azelphur> shauno: yea that's what I read made sense :)
<Azelphur> diplo: sometime I probably will :)
<shauno> they're pretty cheap too.  20 quid or so
<shauno> the fun bit is under what conditions you present that 12v :o)
<Azelphur> nice
<diplo> Glad I moved out when I did, gave me a good start
<diplo> Raining... :(
<Azelphur> in other news I'm thinking of picking up a inspiron mini duo :D
<twager> Wife wants me to install Ubuntu to her win7 laptop.Hope to use wubi but should I use netbook od desktop  edition ?also how do I install the win7 boot if all goes wrong ?
<Azelphur> twager: I'd go for a proper install rather than wubi if you can. Netbook or desktop is a pretty null decision as they both merge next month
<oimon> although netbook version of maverick sucked
<twager> Azelphur: Do not want to do a proper install as it means a repartition of the drive and I am not used to wofking with Windows products
<czajkowski> twager: do you need windows on it?
<Azelphur> twager: the Ubuntu installer handles it all automatically, it's extremely easy
<Azelphur> although I recommend you take a backup before doing it incase of power failure / crash / ninjas
<twager> czajkowski: I do not but  wife does
<Azelphur> I find that wubi installs can be a bit tempremental
<twager> Azelphur: This is what bothers me..If I need to reload the boot to the mbr how do I do it ?
<Azelphur> twager: if you want Windows to take the MBR back? I think there's a command like fixmbr or something in windows
<Azelphur> twager: but the easy route is to just take a dd image of the drive, that's what I always do when I'm messing with it
<Azelphur> then you can do whatever you want and take all the risks you like, if it goes bad you just restore the image
<Azelphur> dd image and then there's no worries :)
<twager> Azelphur: Thanks..Will give it a whirl later...
<Azelphur> twager: know how to do a dd image? :)
<twager> Azelphur: Used it many years ago whe Slackwre first came out and often dd an .img file to cd but never donw a complete drive and help appreciated
<Azelphur> twager: I assume you know how to find out the device name of the drive (eg /dev/sda) right?
<twager> Azelphur: Yes
<Azelphur> dd if=/dev/sdx | gzip > image.gz
<Azelphur> and to restore gzid -dc image.gz | dd of=/dev/sdx
<Azelphur> gzip rather, not gzid
<Azelphur> hey cool, apparently you can backup the MBR too
<Azelphur> twager: http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/ddcommand.htm interesting information :)
<twager> Azelphur: but the lappy boots into win7 ?
<Azelphur> twager: yea so use a Ubuntu Live CD/USB and backup the drive
<Azelphur> then do stuff :)
<Azelphur> having a backup is a good thing anyway.
<daubers> Morning
<twager> Azelphur: Great..Ta very much...
<Azelphur> twager: yw :)
<kazade> gah, bloody clients!...
 * kazade has had a particularly complaint today
<willy_1977> morning.
<Azelphur> twager: that's my usual procedure when I do dual boots, I do a dd because sometimes bad stuff happens (You get power failures, or crashes because of dodgy CD drives) and then I dual boot it up :)
 * kazade has had a particularly *dumb* complaint today (sigh)
<daubers> kazade: ?
<kazade> daubers, it's a long story
<kazade> :)
<daubers> kazade: How goes the job hunt?
<kazade> not great :/
<kazade> haven't heard back from anything yet
<daubers> No? Bit rubbish.
<daubers> I've got a few people I want to drop an email back to just to give a negative response to.
<kazade> I did join LinkedIn...
<kazade> dunno if that's gonna help :p
<daubers> Heh :)
<kazade> in fairness, I'm being a bit fussy about who I apply to
<kazade> if I don't hear anything by next week I'll start dealing with agencies :/
<daubers> Agencies suck
<czajkowski> kazade: I'd try online and just send it everywhere and then take it from there
<czajkowski> it's the only way tbh
<czajkowski> kazade: what kind of work are you looking for ?
<kazade> czajkowski, Python/C++ in London
<czajkowski> surely there are tons of those jobs out there, at least in Python
<daubers> kazade: If it wasn't for the last part of that I'd offer you an interview straight off :)
<kazade> daubers, :)
<kazade> czajkowski, there are.. I'm just being fussy
<czajkowski> be less fussy so :)
<kazade> applied to Canonical, Google, last.fm and ... Microsoft
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> Canonical ----------------> Microsoft
<czajkowski> and you're fussy you say
<kazade> lol
<bigcalm> Heh
<kazade> well, I'm going for BIG companies :)
<kazade> I'm the sole employee where I work now, I want to work somewhere with lots of people :)
<oimon> try a bank
<kazade> oimon, that's a good idea
<popey> pharma companies
<popey> GSK, AZ
<kazade> GSK isn't too far from here actually
<oimon> mind you..nig =boring
<oimon> big
<daubers> \o/ we're trying to buy the unit next door to us as we've run out of physical space. My research workshop is full of stock at the moment :(
<oimon> medium sized companies are more flexible
<kazade> popey, although, ultimate evil
<bigcalm> Orical?
<popey> kazade: who?
<kazade> phara
<kazade> *pharma companies
<popey> you have got to be kidding?
<popey> you have _microsoft_ on your list and you paint drug companies as evil
<kazade> lol
<popey> :D
<kazade> fair point ;)
<popey> also, yes, Oracle
<popey> SAP :)
<popey> IBM
<kazade> I've checked IBM
<popey> L'Oreal
<daubers> Are oracle london basd? Thought their office where in reading
<popey> (Because you're worth it)
<oimon> people actually choose to work for oracle?
<kazade> heh
<popey> I have a friend who works there
<popey> through aquisition of Sun
<popey> he really doesn't like it there
<oimon> not surprised
<daubers> popey: heard a couple of people say that
<oimon> kazade: have you tried jobsite.co.uk?
<daubers> cwjobs is a good one as well
<popey> I'd use jobserve.com over jobsite
<oimon> if i was looking i'd use them all
<popey> heh
<kazade> oimon, last time I signed up to a job site..
<oimon> rather than trying indivual companies
<kazade> my phone started ringing 2 minutes later
<kazade> I couldn't turn it on for 3 days!
<popey> well, some are somewhat unscrupulous so I wouldnt use all
<oimon> kazade: you can go direct to a decent agency
<kazade> hehe, there are decent agencies?
<popey> yeah, a few
<willy_1977> I've had some people contact me from those to offer me jobs at the company I'm working for... at least read the first page of my cv for goodness sake!
<kazade> I've signed up to Client Server who seem to suck
<daubers> HAH
<oimon> http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/python-developer-financial-services-london-938495172?src=search
<X3N> popey: does nagios know not to fail on the standard ssh port?
<daubers> I've spoken to 13 agencies in the past 2 weeks, all of them are _far_ too expensive and none of them understand any of the questions I threw at them, so I don't believe they could filter a pond
<oimon> kazade: when yo release the gwibber-killer then they will be beating down your door :P
<kazade> hehe, in fairness oimon... a gwibber-killer doesn't need to be good ;)
<daubers> kazade: when dealing with agencies, rememver they're probably being paid 12+% of your _annual_ salary as a fee, so don't take any nonsense
<oimon> so long as it kills gwibber, it doesn't even need to work
<kazade> daubers, k :)
<oimon> daubers: in the past for hiring, i used prospects.co.uk and filtered myself. except a lot of rubbish came through, including a 9yr old girl from pakistan
<MartijnVdS> (crontab -l ; echo "* * * * * killall gwibber") | crontab -
<daubers> oimon: For what the agencies want to charge me, I'm considering hiring a temp for 3 months who could filter those, send responses and what not under my guidance
<daubers> oimon: At least that way I can give someone a job who might need it!
<BigRedS> I've never really felt the need to not just use the web interface for twitter
<oimon> just don't promise to respond to all applicants - only shortlisted ones :P
<oimon> BigRedS: i like to see permanent searches alongside the timeline e.g. #ubuntu in a separate stream
<daubers> oimon: Well, yes. But they might as well make themselve useful :)
<kazade> so, who are the best agencies?
<daubers> kazade: forest seemed ok (wouldn't take any of them on as an employer mind you, don't believe what they charge is indicative of the work they do)
<daubers> However, if you want to work for a big firm.... their probably the only way you'll get an in
<oimon> daubers: as an employer, does a RHCE gain any advantage for candidates in your opinion?
<kazade> k thanks daubers
<daubers> oimon: In the roll I'm currently filling... probably. However, if someone had OSS projects on their CV that would be a bigger advantage (as I could go examine their code first)
<BigRedS> oimon: Ah, I suspect I'd probably like that too had I thought of having it..
<brobostigon> goodmorning everyone.
<diplo> mornin
<DJones> daubers: 12% for an agency sounds a bit low, the ones we deal with (admittely in a different industry) upp'd their fee's to 15% minimum over the last 12 months
<brobostigon> morning DJones
<DJones> Hi brobostigon
<oimon> makes me laugh when employers want an expert genius and only offering 20k
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<daubers> DJones: 12% was the cheapest I've spoken too
 * Laney wibbles
<daubers> DJones: I've told them all to go away as I don't believe they'll do Â£5k plus worth of work
<daubers> DJones: I'd seriously rather hire a temp for a couple of months to deal with it
<kazade> oimon, I love the fact that employers want their developers to have in depth knowledge about an entire industry before they start (e.g. finance, risk management, etc.)
<oimon> you can get a refund if you sack the guy within 3 months because they are useless. i had a ruthless employer who would do that regularly
<kazade> oimon, that and agencies love adding languages to the job spec. (e.g C, C++, Java, Python, FORTRAN, ADA, C#, .NET, Perl, Ruby, Bash)
<daubers> oimon: Problem is I'm then wasting my time in training them in the role. Which is ar more valuable to the company
<oimon> true
<oimon> i would rather get a good guy in the first place
<daubers> I'd rather spend a couple of extra weeks getting the right candidate
<daubers> When agencies say that to me they don't like me asking them why that offer that, and if it's because they generally don't get the right candidate for the role
<oimon> i try to avoid alan sugar type managers
<daubers> I've yet to have an agency successfully justify their fees to me
<JGJones> As a job seeker - how does one deal with an agency?
<popey> kazade: http://python.org/community/jobs/
<daubers> Generally get the statement "But you have to understand the value proposition we bring to the table" at which point, I hang up
<kazade> ta popey
<JGJones> My biggest problem with agencies is that as soon as they find out I'm deaf (usually by asking for my number)...they're very very quiet afterward
<daubers> JGJones: As a candidate, you ave to keep pressing them. They won't get paid if they don't fill a role, so they generally won't tell you to stop calling them.
<JGJones> daubers, yeah, I would prefer to deal via email.
<JGJones> they would prefer to deal via telephone.
<JGJones> at least in my experience that's the case.
<daubers> JGJones: Problem is that email is far too easy to ignore
<daubers> JGJones: Go knock on their door :)
<brobostigon> JGJones: i would agree, they like their telephones.
<JGJones> I know :(
<czajkowski> JGJones: it's unfortunate as daubers said emaik is easy to ingore and picking up the phone is fast
<czajkowski> *email
<JGJones> daubers, I'm not exactly that great at lipreading
<oimon> i prefer to avoid agencies altogether, but sometimes (particualrly in the city) they are a necessary evil
<JGJones> I'm dealing with agencies because I'm still looking for a job.
<JGJones> NEED one.
<oimon> JGJones: what area?
<daubers> JGJones: Where abouts and what kind of job?
<oimon> genre
<brobostigon> 22h29m uptime no gpu lockup or hang. :)
<JGJones> I live just outside of Leeds
<JGJones> and working in sysadmin job (last job was it/is manager
<daubers> ah, can't help with that :(
<oimon> JGJones: i assume you have tried jobs.ac.uk? my employer (ac.uk) told me that if somebody with a disability meets all of the criteria, they MUST shortlist them for interview
 * daubers _needs_ an employee :(
<oimon> private sector tend to ignore the law
 * brobostigon needs an empoloyer.
<JGJones> oimon, yup I know far too bloody well
<brobostigon> employer*
<JGJones> I often get asked in interviews - so...how do you deal with telephones? Meetings etc. I give them solutions.
<czajkowski> we've hired a blind person so I beg to differ about the private sector.
<JGJones> czajkowski, Nah, it happens. Yes private sector do hire, but they're not as good as public sector. Speaking from experience.
<daubers> Urgh, another day of teaching resellers how to do their job
<czajkowski> public sector tend to be civil servant so employed techincally by the gov at least back at home., so ther are a lot more options avilable.
 * daubers disappears for a day of frustration and trying not to shout at people
<czajkowski> *available
<JGJones> My worst was with McAfee - I pretty much lost my job in the end with zilch support, mind you, that was years ago before I knew about DDA or Access to Work.
<oimon> JGJones: durham uni are hiring sysadmin types
<DJones> daubers: Thats true about the Â£5K of work, we've found they spend maybe 5 minutes emailing random cv's through, 30 minutes ringing prospective employee's and 48 hours ringing asking for payment of their invoice
<oimon> estate agents and recruitment agents fall into similar categories of contempt
 * AlanBell waves JGJones in the direction of the other window . . .
<DJones> oimon: I'm not sure whether recruitment agent or estate agents would be nearer the bottom of the list
<oimon> also soloictors...the reason people don't make wills is fear of getting ripped off
<BigRedS> oooh. Gwibber calls itself 'ubuntu' to Twitter
<DJones> BigRedS: Yes, its done that for a while
<bigcalm> While http://yfrog.com/gy7njgicj is being serviced, I get http://yfrog.com/h3qamtjj - what happened to like for like?
<dogmatic69> lol
 * bigcalm has a sad
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: they both French cars ;)
<DJones> It looks pretty similar, wheel at corner etc
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: all of the cars I've owned have been french
<bigcalm> I can confirm that the 107 is a PoS though.
<DJones> 2CV?
<bigcalm> Citeron(sp?)
<bigcalm> and then 3 Peugots: 406 406 407
 * bigcalm ponders thraping the loan car for fun
<DJones> I've got a 53 plate picasso, wife has a C3, I've probably had cars made in most countries except Germany for some reason
<gord> seriously. why are government websites the worst developed ones in the world?
<gord> "your password contained invalid characters, your password may only contain numbers and letters"
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: ive seen that 107 is a c1 is toyota something
<bigcalm> gord: because web dev contracts are awarded to the lowest bidder
<dogmatic69> guy at work has the c1 and says its nice o.o
<gord> bigcalm, but i don't even understand the logic there
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: yes
<bigcalm> gord: wed dev was having a bad week?
<gord> why would you block non alphanumeric characters from a password?
<gord> thats *extra* work for less security
<DJones> Bloke where I used to work went from a peugeot 405 to a 107 because his daughter was learning to drive, only trouble was he had to go on a diet to be able to sit comfortably in it
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> My fiancee is a tiny lady and drives a hyundai matrix. If I have to move her car, I have to move the seat from the 1st notch to the last notch and even then it feels cramped.
<bigcalm> Oops, I meant to say petite :)
<willy_1977> bigcalm: a friend (20st rugby prop) always get's a nissan micra as his "courtesy" car... :)
<DJones> gord its a security thing, the less characters available to use for a password, the easier it is for the security service to break the password
<willy_1977> it's like those clowns getting out of the little car sometimes...
<bigcalm> fewer
 * bigcalm coughs and goes to make a brew
 * oimon wonders what the number of files and folders in the home directory should be for optimum productivity
<DJones> 42
<popey> zero unhidden files, about 12 folders ;)
<oimon> currently after 30 mins of tidying, am at 74 folders, 80 files..
<Laney> apparently the human brain can only scan 5/6 objects at once
<Laney> after that you have to look at them individually
<popey> so lots of hierarchy then Laney ?
<oimon> tab completion :P
<Laney> right
<gord> something on my desk beeped. unfortunately it was a beep i have never heard before. so i will never ever know what that beep was for or what of many useless devices it was :(
<oimon> i have seen some ridiculously hierarchical trees that make things worse, rather than better
<Laney> but maybe with alphabetically sorted items you know where to begin looking
<oimon> also, tools like tracker search help a lot
<oimon> i have a question that's bugged me for ages - how do you add to gnome panel when it is full of icons and applications? no blank space
<davmor2> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning davmor2
<gord> oimon, you don't unless you make space
<davmor2> czajkowski: morning, did you like your late night reminder I was still online :D
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: what?
<gord> hrm, trying to think of a use for a space 2gb sd card, but hard to think of any uses for that
<popey> wii?
<oimon> gord: i use things like that for encrypted doc storage
<gord> already have a wii sd card
<gord> this is from the nintendo 3ds, you get a free 2gb one but i put in a space 16 gb one i found when cleaning up
<oimon> you can also use 2gb card for booting live usb
 * oimon wishes he found spare 16gb card when cleaning up
<oimon> gave my missis a new 2gb usb stick..she was overjoyed...it broke a few days later
<popey> gord: put a keylogger on it and leave it in the street
<gord> i don't like using sd cards for live installs, usbs are more convenient and they seem faster
<gord> hehe
<gord> windows disabled autorun now though didn't they?
<popey> rename it to farmville.exe
<willy_1977> popey: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<gord> geez, the destruction you could cause with something renamed to farmville.exe
<oimon> ugh why are cashbacks becoming more popular with IT purchases?
<directhex> oimon, because on;ly about 15% of people ever use cashbacks or rebates
<oimon> and it's virtualy impossible to arrange when doing a corporate purcahse :(
<directhex> yep, that's the idea
<oimon> anyone used a dell latitude 13? thinking of getting one for a colleague
<directhex> i used to have a latitude e4300
<directhex> in my yoof
<oimon> cheeky dell now started autoselecting 15 months of antivirus by default.
<DJones> oimon: What sepc are the latitude 13's, I'm looking at laptops myself
 * popey sends a massive mail to the list
<popey> based on http://xkcd.com/386
<MartijnVdS> popey: uh oh :)
<oimon> DJones: faster processor is IntelÂ® Coreâ¢ 2 Duo SU7300(1.3GHz,800MHz,3MB
<oimon>  http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/latitude-13/pd
<DJones> oimon: Right, I'm looking for an i3/i5
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-March/029304.html
<oimon> the 14 inch e5410 has that i think. plus the latitude 14r is out in the states..not sure when coming here
<DJones> Just managed to persuade the interweb to let me access that page
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's only massive because of the file listing
<popey> yeah
<DJones> oimon: I'm stuggling to find something, ideal laptop will be 15-17" screen, 1366*768 or 1600*900, i3/i5, dedicated graphics and at a reasonable price
<popey> MacBook Pro
<popey> oh, you said reasonable price ;)
<oimon> $$Â£Â£Â£
<MartijnVdS> â¬â¬â¬
<popey> mine was 900+VAT which is comparable with others of the same/similar spec
<oimon> DJones: did i recommend deal outlet store to you or someone else the other day?
<oimon> /deal/dell/
<DJones> oimon: Yes, dell outlet
<AlanBell> popey: awesome email :)
<oimon> lenovo is popular with geeks too though i hear
<popey> :)
 * oimon waits for mailman to do it's archiving..
<oimon> ah it's there already
<DJones> I looked at lenovo, but they were either too expensive or screen size too small, I found an acer that met everything except dedicated graphics, its just got intel hd graphics which from what I've read isn't liked by minecraft
<DJones> Although this looks a reasonable deal
<DJones> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/asus-a52f-ex911v-red-laptop-08702336-pdt.html
<oimon> http://uk.insight.com/en-gb/productinfo/laptops/LENYANVLGQ << look cheap
<DJones> Just have to forget about the dedicated graphics
<oimon> i am averse to nvidia cards in laptops after seeing so many fry.
 * Daviey bought a non-ibm lenavo last year.. absolute rubbish bit of kit.
<oimon> Daviey: which one?
<DJones> Hmmh, just looking at that asus a52f, blurb about it says "17.3" widescreen LCD display with sparkling 1600 x 900 resolution" but description says "1366 x 768"
<oimon> where in the world...PC world!
<Daviey> oimon, i'll have to check, it's been behind the sofa for the last >6 months untouched.
<DJones> Should Intel GMA HD graphics have a problem with ubuntu?
<DJones> oimon: Its not just pcworld with that info, pixmania use exactly the same wording
<penguin42> DJones: No, it should be fine - it's known to have a few bugs however
<DJones> penguin42: What sort of bugs, I guess as long as compiz runs, that would be fine for me, at the end of the day, I'm not a gamer, so its day to day use, browsing, email, irc, multimedia etc
<brobostigon> lol, my mp tony baldry, just got cut off by the speaker. :)
<brobostigon> banbury's mp*
<penguin42> DJones: Yeh compiz should run fine; it's more just occasional crashes or not liking certain setups
<oimon> brobostigon: are you watching the parliament channel ?
<shauno> they don't serve drinks after lunchtime?
<brobostigon> oimon: daily politics, bbc2.
<oimon> ok lol
<brobostigon> and the PM, didnt even give him a decent answer either, so the question was a total waste.
<brobostigon> i dont think the PM is used to give decent answers, me reckons.
<brobostigon> giving*
<oimon> i've become rather detached from politics in recent years
<oimon> not reading a newspaper probably contributes to that
<DJones> oimon: I might hav found a laptop candidate http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Laptops/buy-PACKARD-BELL-TJ75-JN-070-Laptop/689203#fulldetails i3/4Gb/ATI Radeon HD 5470 512Mb, although I need to look at teh graphics compatibility
<oimon> DJones: makes me nervous that 3yrs warranty is Â£200...similar warranty on lenovo of similar price is Â£80
<DJones> I don't normally bother with warranties
<popey> ewww packard bell
<DJones> Graphics looks like its supported OTB
<DJones> popey: I used to think that about them, but a few people I know have bought them in the last couple of years and they've been rock solid
<brobostigon> oimon: it caught my interest again, as i started to read private eye again.
<popey> i watch bbc news in bed as I go to sleep
<popey> sends me off nicely :)
 * popey hugs ipad
<MartijnVdS> popey: you like nightmares? :)
<popey> :)
<issyl0> matti: I'm alive! :-)
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zxaZDsOuqE ?
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: Err. :P
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: Not like that? :)
<issyl0> No..
<issyl0> Not like that...
<MartijnVdS> aww
 * oimon has home-made pot noodle for lunch
<smittix> Afternoony
<brobostigon> good afternoon smittix
<smittix> Alreet?
<willy_1977> oimon: where did you get all the chemicals for that from? I bet you're on some govt watch list for ordering all of them :p
<brobostigon> smittix: not bad, could be better, and you?
<oimon> willy_1977: home made pot noodle includes real chicken :)
<smittix> brobostigon: Not bad ta :)
<brobostigon> smittix: :)
<oimon> somehow managed to reproduce a kind of pot noodley taste though
<willy_1977> :o without the chemicals my word golden wonder have been saying that's impossible! nice work, chicken and noodles and stuff me likey!
<oimon> still working on colonel saunders recipe though..i think the secret blend is just MSG
<willy_1977> and hydrogenated fat...
<DJones> oimon: I remember watching hugh fernley-whittingham making home made pot noodles a few months back
<popey> i think it was someone else, not hugh
<oimon> popey: for april fools day will you be installing elementary OS on your macbook?
<oimon> the bald dude
<popey> nope
<popey> a guy in a barn?
<DJones> popey: There were 2 of them making them hugh & somebody else & then taste testing them
<oimon> heston blumenthal?
<willy_1977> DJones: aye I seem to recall that too...
<popey> hmm
<popey> the one I saw was a guy explaining what goes into food
<popey> he made lots of things like sausages, ice cream.. noodles
<DJones> http://www.rivercottage.net/recipes/chorizo-tomato-instant-noodles-in-a-pot/
<willy_1977> popey: ah that was good too, now who was that... errr....
<oimon> pot noodles use medium noodles rather than thin noodles :P
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/programmes cant see it here
<willy_1977> Jimmys food factory wasn't it?
<brobostigon> willy_1977: that it is, :)
<popey> yeah thats it
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vy641
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00bzjp8
<willy_1977> put me off for a few minutes...
<willy_1977> :p
<popey> heh
<directhex> boing
<popey> splat!
<willy_1977> said zebedee?
<brobostigon> dixons group , sales have dipped 10% since christmas.
<oimon> i would expect a lot of retailers to have the same problem. petrol prices and electricity, combined with food inflation is killing my wage packet
<directhex> brobostigon, good.
<brobostigon> directhex: elaborate.
<DJones> Its not just that, sales start earlier and earlier, so people buy in the sales around christmas which boosts sales then, so afterwards they have further to fall
<directhex> dsg is institutionally evil.
<brobostigon> directhex: ?
<oimon> they regularly sell crippled laptops  with insufficient RAM to poor unsuspecting technophobes
<directhex> i spent a few months working at pc world, in my yoof
<brobostigon> i shouldpoint out, i have never bought anything from them.
<brobostigon> oimon: ouch,
<directhex> did you know they have a shrink wrapping machine in the warehouse, so they can re-sell used goods as new?
<brobostigon> directhex: oh dear, :(
<oimon> they also pushed the hard sell on my mum when buying a laptop to get some online storage 50gb thing, and a pricey MS office package
<oimon> unfortunately i was not with her at the time and she succumbed
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> thats not good to hear,
<oimon> friends don't let friends go to DSG :)
<DJones> PCworld is ok as long as you know what you're going for and have specific models in mind
<brobostigon> the cloest i have been to either, is the maplins, which is next door.
<oimon> i was also mocked in pc world for asking where the eee pc without windows was
<brobostigon> oimon: :(
<directhex> oimon, yeah, i got that when i bought an acer there
<brobostigon> oimon: that is justdamnleck of eduction and FUD.
<directhex> brobostigon, they don't hire people who know about technology
<directhex> they hire confident liars. sales is confidence trickery
<brobostigon> directhex: that explains it.
<directhex> just sound certain, and people will buy
<oimon> yeah, and 16yr old eejits who think they are the nuts
<willy_1977> they are nuts
<brobostigon> directhex: that is truly sad.
<oimon> brobostigon: you sound surprised
<directhex> i got 2 formal complains on my record when i worked there for 3 months
<DJones> directhex: I was just about to say the same thing, they're salespeople, mainly selling to people who don't know what they're buying & rely on the salesperson to say you can do this, this and this
<directhex> both for helping customers
<brobostigon> oimon: not really, but i am at the same time, as i have never beem near the place.
<oimon> anyone been to bestbuy? i hear they are starting up over here
<brobostigon> oimon: i havent,no.
<brobostigon> directhex: ouch, :(
<oimon> tbh i am a make do and mend kind of guy. i tend not to buy much gear
<directhex> oimon, 3 branches iirc
<willy_1977> DJones: it appears you have been helpful whilst serving this customer we have no choice but to start a formal complaint proceedings...
<directhex> brobostigon, one for correcting a salesman in front of the customer, when he was selling a PS/2 keyboard for use on a mac
<brobostigon> directhex: well, agreed, that isnt possible, so you was right.
<oimon> my mum also got fleeced in DSG for a super duper gold scart cable for the DVD player
<DJones> directhex: That black mark wouldn't have been for helping the customer, it'd have been for making the salesman look like an idiot
<directhex> brobostigon, the other for selling a high-end pc with extended warranty when asked for help by a customer, because the salesmen were all hanging around the all-in-one printers chatting about how one would be on Ibiza Uncovered talking about some fat bird he'd slept with
<oimon> cost Â£30 or something. my dad took it back
<directhex> DJones, bingo
<brobostigon> directhex: oh dear,
<DJones> directhex: What was your job their?
<DJones> s/their/there
<directhex> DJones, merchansider. which is fancy talk for "guy who attempts to make sure the shelf displays are correct"
<directhex> which isn't the same as "shelf stacker", before anyone starts
<brobostigon> directhex: so shelf continuity,
<DJones> I worked in asda back in the days it was a corner shop, we had merchendiser's who'd come in from manufacturers to check/adjust their own displays
<ali1234> it's the guy who makes sure the thing you want is as hard to find as possible so you have to ask for help and/or spend ages looking around the shop
<directhex> ali1234, the key is to make sure the end-cap promotions are up to date and valid, since they're paid spots
<directhex> ali1234, any item on an end-cap in dsgi paid to be there
<ali1234> haha
<directhex> oh, btw, staff will lie about commission
<DJones> ali1234: Thats management, we hide the stuff you want & need so you have to ask & we can say its over there next to the tat you don't want or need but is prominently displayed and looks good
<oimon> yeah, like hard drives
<oimon> you have to ask for them
<directhex> they *are* on commission, but they lie and say they aren't because it's not *called* commission
<oimon> sales incentive
<ali1234> why would you even ask them if they are on commision?
<directhex> or "CABS" for spot payments
<ali1234> for that matter why would you even talk to the staff in any of these shops?
<directhex> e.g. "sell this model of epson, earn 5 quid. sell that model, earn a tenner"
<directhex> ali1234, you or i wouldn't. we're not their target customer
<directhex> oh, the other fun thing is admin terminals can display the margin on an item
<ali1234> i thought it was more like "sell more of this freezer than anyone else, get a stereo"
<directhex> you know those overpriced belkin cables?
<oimon> one guy in comet/curry's i forget which, told me i would be sent a latter when the warranty expired so i could send back unused warranty and get a refund, (that was a popular trick in those days)
<directhex> they're only about 50% proft
<oimon> of course i never got the letter and was outside the 30 days notice period :(
<directhex> but the pc world cables, which are a quid cheaper, are about 95% profit
<oimon> ugh
<directhex> they pay 50p wholesale, and charge Â£14
<brobostigon> the worst i have seen upto now, was in a maplins, and i asked for some linear potentionmeters, and the guy behind the desk, and had the biggest clueless gaze i have ever seen.
<oimon> i would give you the same gaze
<oimon> and then search on the computer
<brobostigon> so i had to explain to him what one was, and what one looked like, nd after a few tries he got close,
<brobostigon> after i gave up, and pointed to what i wanted inside their catalogue.
<ali1234> there's a reason why everything has order codes you know
<brobostigon> ali1234: i didnt have the code at the time, i just knew what i wanted, however, yes , i agree.
<oimon> with maplins i tend to print out the page from teh website and hand it over to the components dude
<oimon> they are usually quite helpful
<ali1234> just write down the order code geez
<ali1234> it's only 5 digits
<oimon> but it has a picture too :)
<oimon> and the price :)
<brobostigon> ali1234: that is what i have done since, i found the component guy here in banbury. was so clueless.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.brainlesstales.com/2011-03-30/venn-ding-machine
<s-fox> Hello.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: amusing
<brobostigon> s-fox: good afternoon.
<s-fox> Hello brobostigon . How are you?
 * brobostigon goes and installs mumble.
<brobostigon> s-fox: not bad, could be better, nd you?
<s-fox> I am okay thank you, though a little sore.
<brobostigon> s-fox: ok, :)
<brobostigon> ohwell.
<brobostigon> installing mumble, ready for saturday.
 * willy_1977 still needs to do that and get a headset... :/
<brobostigon> willy_1977: i have a spare here.
<oimon> i have a bluetooth phone headset - would that would too?
<willy_1977> hmmm very interesting...
<brobostigon> oimon: that would work, yes.
<oimon> cool. i got it free for turning up to a trade show...haven't got round to using it with skype or anything  yet
<oimon> look forward to trying it
<DJones> gord: After you asked about government websites and passwords, here's something just as good, new government website infected with malware http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12904585
<brobostigon> oimon: pulseaudio should pick it up fine, as a source,
<oimon> this guy is having issues: http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/05/26/using-mumble-with-a-bluetooth-headset/
<gord> ha
<oimon> argh meetings for the next 2 hrs
<directhex> oh, maplins are extra special
<directhex> print out the web page, as suggested
<brobostigon> ?
<directhex> they have a proxy on the computers in the store, with a fake version of the maplin website, with higher prices on it
 * popey chuckles at oimon "this guy"
<directhex> so if you check prices in-store, they're higher than from home
<popey> where "this guy" is the CTO of Canonical :)
<czajkowski> Nasa Open source summit http://www.slideshare.net/ckleclerc
<directhex> czajkowski, getting into AMES is fun :/
<DJones> Had to google then for CTO, I was guessing chief treausry officer, but I see its technical
<shauno> that's usually cfo  (financial) :)
<DJones> shauno: I've seen both, treasury seems to be used a fair bit overseas
<davmor2> oimon: also that issue was the 26/5/2010
<brobostigon> where do i tell pulseaudio to use a different microphone input again?
<willy_1977> brobostigon: is that not in system settings / sounds ?
<czajkowski> what is NIH in the blog post which martin krafft says
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, just cause you need it to remember your alive
 * czajkowski sends davmor2 to the naughty step. 
<davmor2> brobostigon: sound settings
<davmor2> brobostigon: in fact sound preferences, input tab
<popey> czajkowski: "Not Invented Here"
<willy_1977> czajkowski: hummm is it Not Invented Here?
<czajkowski> popey: willy_1977 thanks
<popey> czajkowski: url?
<brobostigon> thankyou willy_1977 and davmor2
<davmor2> brobostigon: Happy to help when I can :D
<willy_1977> ^^^^ that ;)
<czajkowski> popey: it's in the blog post from Mat 1st commend from madduck
<popey> yeah, I was asking for a url :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: ^ I think that one was aimed at you :D
<matti> iceflatline: ;]
<matti> issyl0: ;]
<czajkowski> popey: 13:54 < oimon> this guy is having issues: http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/05/26/using-mumble-with-a-bluetooth-headset/
<czajkowski> popey: sorry having a blonde moment day
<iceflatline> matti: yes?
<popey> heh
<MooDoo> davmor2: naughty step lol
<matti> iceflatline: Bad tab, sorry ;]
<matti> iceflatline: I wanted to stalk the young lady there --> issyl0 ;]
<brobostigon> davmor2: :)
<issyl0> Hehe.
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yeah I know,  I brought my bolster and lump hammer with me this time I'm gonna get rid of the step once and for all :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski well and truly told you off :) and i've not annoyed her once today :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: 5
<davmor2> MooDoo: 4
<davmor2> MooDoo: 3
<davmor2> ....
<MooDoo> lol
 * czajkowski glares at MooDoo and davmor2 
<czajkowski> seperate ye two, no messing!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ner ner ner ner ner can't catch me
<MooDoo> ok so i've turned 3
<davmor2> MooDoo: you missed at least one "ner" for that sentence to make any sense what so ever :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: phooey
<davmor2> absolute 80's playing axel F woohoo!
<MooDoo> davmor2: awesome, get some paul hardcastle going too
<davmor2> no frog ruining it
<brobostigon> i think i have mumble setup properly now.
<davmor2> MooDoo: nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnninteen?
<MooDoo> yay o/
 * AlanBell logs on to mumble
<AlanBell> anyone else want to join in?
<popey> :( cant
<popey> at work behind proxy
<popey> and no headset
<popey> will do tonight though :)
 * MooDoo might figure out how to login but has no mic
<popey> is there a command line only mumble client?
<shauno> was gonna give it a shot, but can't find my soundcard atm :/
<MooDoo> popey: http://mumble.sourceforge.net/3rd_Party_Applications#Commandline-Interfaces
<willy_1977> shauno: are you sure it's plugged in?
<willy_1977> :p
<shauno> willy_1977: if it was plugged in, I'd be able to find it :)   think it may be in a bag somewhere
<davmor2> shauno: that's easy see the speacker port the sound card is attached to it :D
<willy_1977> shauno: turn it off and back on again I'm sure it'll be fine...
<davmor2> AlanBell: what server you using I'll see if mumble will let me log into 2 at the same time
<shauno> heh, it's a little usb dongle.  when I lose it I literally, physically can't find it
<AlanBell> mumble.libertus.co.uk
<brobostigon> that worked fairly well.
<AlanBell> it did
<AlanBell> I think headset microphones are by far the best for that kind of thing though
<willy_1977> shauno: that explains it then... you need a soundblaster 16 pci state of the art my man...
<shauno> my laptop doesn't have any spare pci slots :p
<willy_1977> bring me solutions not problems... for forty years!
<shauno> :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: by the look of it it's going to try and over rule my canonical one I might have a play tonight.
 * AlanBell enjoys overruling canonical
<popey> thanks MooDoo
<popey> although the box i was going to use, now i recall, does actually have a GUI
<czajkowski> http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/google-to-build-profiles-of-gmail-users-for-advertisers-2601436.html  hmmmm
<hamitron> :s
<MartijnVdS> Google said Gmail users who do not want their emails to be profiled for behavioural targeting will be able to opt out of the system when it is enabled on their account.
<MartijnVdS> </quote>
<willy_1977> not good... if truthful...
<willy_1977> ok... slightly better...
<MartijnVdS> It's not like they made it a secret they were going to do this..
<willy_1977> fair point...
<hamitron> so what happens if people send you loads of email with adult jokes?
<popey> change your friends
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> "people" ;)
<MartijnVdS> use facebook
<willy_1977> go on farcebook... and get some new ones...
<hamitron> no noes, not the facebook again :/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: okcupid then?
<willy_1977> thaibrides.com?
<hamitron> now ya talking willy \o/
<hamitron> erm, will
<shauno> nifty.  mumble doesn't mind me using two soundcards :o)
<willy_1977> hamitron: is that will or willy?
<hamitron> "now ya talking will" sounds better I think
<hamitron> ;/
<willy_1977> yes... quite
<willy_1977> especially given the subject... apparently... that site exists too :o
<hamitron> thaibribes.com?
<hamitron> or nowyatalkingwilly.com
<willy_1977> :o
<hamitron> haha
<willy_1977> I'm at work.
<willy_1977> I'll have a look later... oops
<shauno> I'm at home, and I'm still not gonna click =x
<hamitron> me neither ;/
<popey> aaaaaaaahem
 * davmor2 finishes demolishing the naughty step and goes back to annoying czajkowski  :P
<hamitron> </subject>
<DJones> If people want a really dodgy website to look at, how about microsoft.com
<hamitron> DJones: that is going too far!
 * hamitron crosses arms
<popey>  /kickban DJones
<DJones> Heh
<hamitron> 3pm, cup of tea time \o/
<hamitron> and cakes
<hamitron> brb
<davmor2> popey: I thought you only got banned for suggesting apple.com or oracle.com
<shauno> I had to try very hard not to mention apple.com/getamac when someone was laptop shopping earlier.  the only reason I didn't is that it appears they've ditched the TV ads, so that page goes somewhere even more boring now
<shauno> (and not just to be a pest; new ones came out a month ago, so now's the right time to hit the refurbs page)
<popey> yeah, they only advertise iPhone, iPod and iPad now
<popey> it seems
<shauno> ya.  figures, but I sadly enjoyed how completely cheesy those ads were
<shauno> and some of the spoofs made the whole thing worth it :)
 * brobostigon returns, with headset.
 * AlanBell sees various people connecting to the mumble server
<MartijnVdS> there's a mumble server?
<AlanBell> mumble.libertus.co.uk
<MartijnVdS> I can't try now (at work), will try tonight
<gord> mumble is wonderful, the easiest thing to "setup" ever
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: using it for the global jam on saturday and the quiz in a few weeks time
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yeah, I had guessed the quiz bit :)
<popey> what port does mumble use?
<MartijnVdS> http://mumble.sourceforge.net/FAQ/English#What_is_the_default_server_port_for_Murmur.3F ;)
<MartijnVdS> The default server port for Murmur is UDP and TCP 64738.
<shauno> 64738 apparently
<AlanBell> Remote host mumble.libertus.co.uk (port 64738)
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/744325  following on from uupc last night and unity. this is one annoying bug
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 744325 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "Unity Launcher stops autohiding and is not responsive" [High,Triaged]
<bigcalm> A wee nap in a darkened bedroom works wonders for persistant headaches
<davmor2> czajkowski: work around, make the app the normal size move it over to the app launcher then maximise it
<czajkowski> davmor2: no more work arounds
<czajkowski> just work normally
<czajkowski> >:(
<davmor2> czajkowski: it does now for me
<popey> AlanBell: connected
<popey> cant hear anyone
<popey> i cant talk
<bigcalm> I can't dance
 * hamitron offers  popey lessons
<bigcalm> The only thing about me is the way that I walk
<czajkowski> davmor2: it comes and goes
<brobostigon> mumble is really sucking cpu, its using over 50%
<MartijnVdS> on your 386? :P
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes.
<Myrtti> this cough :-( argghh*coughcough*hhhhh
 * hamitron excited about his 200mhz cpu arriving
<JGJones> sigh
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: quit smoking ;)
<JGJones> I'm still getting annoyed with trying to compile libopal...
<JGJones> Using instructions here - http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Compiling_Ekiga - I've compile ffmpeg and x264. I'm now attempting to configure/make/make install opal
<davmor2> czajkowski: ask gord if it's not his team he'll know who to pick on I'm sure :D
<Myrtti> I've never even tried smoking... :-(
<JGJones> in configure for opal, it tells me that it can do h263, h264, but then I do a make, it fails with an error which I don't understand yet
<czajkowski> davmor2: bug has a lot of comments on it already, hoping it'll be picked up and worked on
<gord> eh i thought we had fixed that
<JGJones> http://pastebin.com/rpC44ayf
<JGJones> hope someone can help :S
<czajkowski> gord: FIX Please
<bigcalm> Is there anything that <blockquote> can't wrap?
<bigcalm> s/can't/shouldn't
<davmor2> AlanBell: I can see people but if I try a log in it screws up mumble one channel a time it appear
<shauno> I just noticed lubotu3 is clever enough to not give you the url again if you paste a bug's url.  subtle but clever :)
<BigRedS> Heh. Everyt time I scroll I get fragments of fish all over my screen
<bigcalm> o.O
<brobostigon> ok everyone, dont use pulseaudio in mumble, use alsa insted, pulseaudio kills you cpu.
<brobostigon> hogs*
<davmor2> brobostigon: it doesn't here 8-9 % on both I use it all day
<brobostigon> davmor2: you seem to be lucky, :)
<AlanBell> Daviey: pingaling
<davmor2> BigRedS: don't eat fishrolls at you computer
<AlanBell> Daviey: can you point mumble.ubuntu-uk.org at 78.46.222.46 please
<BigRedS> Hah, no, I freed the fish the other day
<BigRedS> it's getting less and less smooth with time
<BigRedS> Oooh, is this a mumble room to go with IRC?
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yeah, for events where that makes sense
<AlanBell> global jam on saturday and the quiz night
<BigRedS> Ah, I was just thinking of suggesting it be used for the jam thingywotsit
<BigRedS> Which reminds me, are there dates for OggCamp yet? @_
<popey> no
<popey> well, yes
<popey> but not confimed
<BigRedS> Ah, fair enough
<BigRedS> I've a really good record of missing the announcement by too much to then be able to go. This year I'm mildly determined to actually be able to turn up
 * brobostigon will try and attend, depending on where it is.
<popey> It will be within 12 miles of GU14
<brobostigon> where is GU14?
<czajkowski> gord: my dear! you about ?
<danfish> brobostigon: popey's house ;)
<danfish> at a guess
<popey> ya
<brobostigon> i see.
<gord> czajkowski, mmhmm, whats up?
<BigRedS> Guildford, just south of London
<danfish> BigRedS: there's something to the north of London?
<danfish> :P
<czajkowski> gord: you running natty
<shauno> googlemaps really needs an option to show trainlines instead of roads
<gord> czajkowski, of course
<czajkowski> gord: what happens when you launch tomboy ?
<brobostigon> i wonder how easy, and cost and time, it would be to get there,?
<gord> czajkowski, erm tomboy launches
<czajkowski> and click a new note
<hamitron> shauno: I am surprised it hasn't been sponsered to do so
<czajkowski> gord: mine when I click launch goes up near the indicator bar, clicking a new note, opens it, but I can get anything to write into it, I cna alt f4 it and close it
<shauno> hamitron: that'd be funny.  seeing the shattered remains of british rail trying to cough up enough cash to get google out of bed?
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> all they'd have to do is arrange to use google maps on a central site for when ordering tickets
<gord> czajkowski, not sure whats going on there, works fine here. make sure to test in the classic desktop before filing a bug incase its just tomboy being weird
<hamitron> then "powered by google maps" would be enough
<shauno> I think it actually works in london? you click on a tube station and it shows you the rest of the line.   just not with the rest of the network :/
<hamitron> nothing obviously exists outside london ;)
 * brobostigon has alook on national railenquiries.
<shauno> just far too used to google being nifty.  worked in paris too
<brobostigon> roughly takes 2hrs, and Â£19 return/offpeak, Â£30 return, anytime.
<brobostigon> so not bad.
<brobostigon> i might be able to do it then.
<BigRedS> danfish: yeah, Watford. I think Scotland's that way, too.
<czajkowski> gord: feck :( how do I log a bug agains tomboy
<gord> czajkowski, ubuntu-bug tomboy
<davmor2> czajkowski: the way you report a bug against anything else,  ubuntu-bug <name of app>
<popey> czajkowski: hang on
<czajkowski> ok
<popey> czajkowski: open a terminal
<popey> see if tomboy is already running, if it is, close it
<popey> open it with tomboy --debug
<popey> that's useful to attach to the mail
<popey> czajkowski: also have you tried in classic gnome?
<czajkowski> popey: aye works fine in that
<popey> so its not tomboy then
<popey> having seen your laptop I'd not expect this to be a tomboy issue but a compiz/unity one
<czajkowski> ah ok
<czajkowski> brb need to reboot
<gord> good to test in classic + compiz too
<davmor2> gord: a tip for the future if czajkowski adds the word dear to a sentence RUN FOR THE HILLS!
 * davmor2 blames czajkowski's inability to upgrade without breaking everything under the sun
<davmor2> czajkowski: be aware that it might be an Ubuntu One issue if you're syncing notes
<bigcalm> \n (unix) \r\n (windows) \r\r (mac?)
<shauno> mac's just been \n for the last 10 years.  before that (macos, but not macosx) it was just \r
<directhex> CRLF!
<issyl0> Hello!
<brobostigon> interesting, mumble for android.
<BigRedS> oooh. I'd never thought of that
<BigRedS> which, come to think of it, is a bit dumb
<willy_1977> chr(10)chr(13)  isn't it?
<shauno> just 10 on unix :)  but yes
<penguin42> brobostigon: Hmm that could be useful
<bigcalm> I'll drop the \r\r option then
<bigcalm> Ta :)
<brobostigon> penguin42: yes, i agree.
<penguin42> brobostigon: If it works; I find the normal one quite touchy
<brobostigon> penguin42: it works, just tried it, but it sucks ram.
<penguin42> normal
 * oimon is back from 2 1/2 hours of meetings...sounds like i missed a load of mumbling about mumble
 * brobostigon gets oimon a beer.
<oimon> swaps it for a ginger one ..not yet 5pm
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> my laptop seems to be dead
<czajkowski> bugger
<oimon> does mumble work with pidgin?
<brobostigon> oimon: no idea, in truth. maybe there is a plugin.
<davmor2> brobostigon: it doesn't work properly iirc
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok, it fired up, and didnt give an errors, so i presumed, ok, sorry.
<davmor2> brobostigon: it might for an open setup I'm used to canonical's though where it didn't work
<brobostigon> davmor2: are we talking about the linux version, or android ?
<davmor2> android
<shauno> since I haven't seen this mentioned yet, http://youtu.be/9vIsQ25Krq8  :D
<brobostigon> ah. ok, thats what i was tlaking about awell.
<brobostigon> talking?
<djones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12905303 Head of Whitehall IT efficiency drive says Apple products should be used more in government
<davmor2> shauno: I'm not a big fan of the new doctor
<czajkowski> turns out rebooting my laptop just may have killed it
<oimon> dr who is so much better now that russell davies is gone
<directhex> russel t davies! \o/
<davmor2> czajkowski: girl you need to learn to install from fresh you kill everything with upgrades :P
<czajkowski> having to boot from a live cd
<czajkowski> but so far it's not going well
<czajkowski> tried to boot into recovery mode
<czajkowski> and different kernels
<djones> If Dr Who had been on ITV, I wonder if the last series would have been sponsored by Polyfilla to get that crack sorted out
<brobostigon> lol
<davmor2> djones: nice
<czajkowski> davmor2: can I have your laptop please
<czajkowski> :D
<danfish> czajkowski: what error are you getting?
<czajkowski> it's not booting up. it hangs on start up
<danfish> nothing at all?
<davmor2> czajkowski: Nope you'll break it and I need it :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: trying live cd now
<czajkowski> and booting into that and see if that kicks it into life
<davmor2> czajkowski: you don't need to tell me that you are trying to kill you computer honest.
<djones> I'm amazed that computer hasn't been put on the naughty step
<daubers> Afternoon
<daubers> London is much like Mos Eisley space port
<davmor2> djones: her computer is the naughty step I demolished the real one earlier
<daubers> never will you find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy
<directhex> daubers, that's cambridge
<davmor2> daubers: harsh
<davmor2> directhex: I think you'll find it's any university lowering it to just Cambridge isn't fair :P
<daubers> directhex: Easier to deal with cambridge, same as oxford. People on push bikes bounce off your bonnet easier
<JGJones> Hey, does Empathy's SIP account do video calls? And what video codecs can it support? I assume it would be anything that's supported via GStreamer?
<czajkowski> ok in order to get back online
<czajkowski> boot to recover mode
<czajkowski> fail
<czajkowski> boot to different kernel fail
<czajkowski> boot to live cd
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> mount /home
<czajkowski> yes all there and working
<czajkowski> reboot
<czajkowski> and boot to recovery mode and we;re back
<gord> only two post-it notes attached to my monitor now, today has been productive :)
<czajkowski> gord: I can give you a lot more if you want
<czajkowski> :D
<BigRedS> I've just been awed by PHP's json functions
<gord> czajkowski, launchpad bugs don't get post-its, you people are good enough reminders ;)
<czajkowski> gord: we love you too!
<BigRedS> this might be the beginning of a slippery slope
<willy_1977> see you around later folks, have a good day/evening/whatever if I don't see you.
<davmor2> JGJones: yes it does.
 * czajkowski prods and gags davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: hummmffffle, hrrmmmumrrrm rummarm
<czajkowski> davmor2: gone past the naughy step, nose in the corner! thank you
<davmor2> czajkowski: :P
<davmor2> czajkowski: Shan't :P :P :P :P
<KrimZon> does anyone else notice new tabs just appearing without having been requested, in firefox 4?
<KrimZon> I'm getting it with images, possibly part of the content of sites I'm looking at like addons.mozilla.org, or possibly stuff I tried to open ages ago but it wasn't loading so I closed the tab
<gord> heh, i printed off A4 version's of the AR cards you get with the 3ds, ended up with mii's half the size of me running around my living room :D
<gord> technology is amazing
<directhex> gord, seen the 15m one?
<gord> directhex, yup, of course
<gord> not going to that length ;)
<directhex> not too interested in the 3ds
<davmor2> czajkowski: you broken anything else?
<davmor2> czajkowski: how was the live cd?
<brobostigon> mumble is freezing after i connect, totally. :(
<davmor2> brobostigon: on what android or linux?
<brobostigon> davmor2: ubuntu natty.
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mumble/+bug/567636 that is it.
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 567636 in mumble (Ubuntu) "mumble stops responding when try to connect to server" [Undecided,Expired]
<oimon> hey guys, seen this one? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12905303
<oimon> "He insisted the government was committed to using more "open source"  software to save cash - but had to balance this with concerns about how  easily it could be "hacked"."
<oimon> ermm...
<ali1234> yeah, i think the gov should run all their sites off drupal
<ali1234> that definitely won't get hacked
<oimon> i think he's got things back to front.. maybe MS have been feeding him FUD
<ali1234> he's an apple user
<oimon> yeah, that will save money LOL
 * MartijnVdS just had a brilliant (?) plan: "dishwasher safe" -- build a safe into a dishwasher (to confuse people looking for valuables)
<ali1234> that's actually a quite good idea
<Azelphur> until the thief goes looking for your silverware :p
<ali1234> of course, you could just get a normal safe
<ali1234> since they are pretty hard to steal anyway
<hamitron> shotgun would work also, and give you a feeling of payback
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Sure, but if you hid it in your dishwasher as well!
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: think of the possibilities!
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: except when you're out of town :)
 * hamitron just has visions of the seal breaking and all that cash getting wet
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: money laundering
<hamitron> how so?
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> hehe
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: like laundry
<hamitron> us geeks are supposed to wash?
<MartijnVdS> I even iron my shirts these days
<MartijnVdS> (shock, horror)
<hamitron> I do my best to get someonee else to do them
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> shirts iron themselves don't they?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: t-shirts.. yes :)
<hamitron> t-shirts need ironing :/
<MartijnVdS> no they don't :)
<hamitron> yes they do you set of slobs
<hamitron> ;D
<oimon> i just hang them up and the creases drop out
<oimon> then i wear stuff over the top anyway
<MartijnVdS> oimon: you must live in a very humid place
<hamitron> I need a different brand of t-shirt :/
<oimon> my work shirts are non-iron..they do OK
<hamitron> polo shirts are better... but i still prefer to iron
<oimon> i'm not a salesman or anything, i don't need crisp starchy collars or anything
<MartijnVdS> neither am I
<MartijnVdS> but my green (yes, grass green) shirt really needs an iron every once in a while :)
<oimon> i would iron them if i had time, but if i had time i would probably do other things instead
<oimon> i'm watching cleveland show right now - what an excellent programme
<hamitron> I've found dressing to work really hard
<hamitron> you need trousers and shirts to be smart, but jeans so you can do the work without burning holes in ya knees
<oimon> i'm the smartest IT dude around
<oimon> a lot of others wear tshirts with holes and sandals :P
<oimon> in my current environment
<hamitron> dunno what it is with the sandals :s
<hamitron> way as well wear a straw hat while ya at it
<hamitron> but there again, I should be careful, there are probably a lot of sandal wearers here? ;)
 * mgdm looks at RMS standing in the corner
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> I actually tried to get a company to move to linux, and they asked me about him
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: he wears sandals so he can eat stuff off his feet easier
<hamitron> they though it was dodgy just because they'd come across a webpage with a picture of him on
<oimon> lol
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: *boke*
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vIsQ25Krq8 \o/ (Dr Who trailer for the new season)
<hamitron> I enabled youtube on my comp last night too \o/
<oimon> should be at a stag do tonight but i'm looking after baby instead :(
<brobostigon> oimon: :(
 * brobostigon gets oimon a beer.
<oimon> oh well..that's the way it goes
<MartijnVdS> don't have babies then :P
<mgdm> Hindsight is 20/20, and all that
<oimon> the baby is worth it :)
<sirgad> hey. Anyone can advise how to modify settings on a LiveCD to add certain default settings?  Using UCK but the info I need relates to how to use the Terminal to make gconf changes.
<popey> AlanBell: http://www.bcs.org/category/8401 is that the BCS venue?
<MartijnVdS> it shuold be possible to change gconf defaults
<MartijnVdS> don't know how though..
<MartijnVdS> http://lwn.net/Articles/436012/ -- real or early April Fools?
<Azelphur> I wonder if android x86 would perform well in virtualbox on a netbook
<sirgad> Hey MartijnVdS. Thanks. Yeah, it's the knowing how and which ones thats my issue too.
<Azelphur> would be interesting to get a inspiron mini duo, and have it bring up the android VM when you put it in tablet mode
<popey> AlanBell: you know the answer really :)
<AlanBell> popey: it is the corridor at the BCS
<MartijnVdS> sirgad: running gconf-editor as root should allow browsing + changing defaults
<AlanBell> the rooms are to the left of that photo
<popey> Would it be appropriate to link to that in the podcast show notes?
<gord> Azelphur, poorly :)
<Azelphur> aww :(
<AlanBell> popey: yup
<Azelphur> my other idea was to chroot it
<sirgad> MartijnVdS: ok, i'll give that a shot.  thanks.
<sirgad> should the defaults i want to change be easy enough to find?  I mean, are the labels pretty descriptive on the whole?
<MartijnVdS> usually, yes
<sirgad> ok, i'll dive inâ¦ :)
<oimon> i've just taken over 30 mins to transfer some money into my nationwide e-isa - what a joke
<sirgad> I use nationwide. what was the issue?
<oimon> they make it really tedious to transfer money around
<oimon> after logging in with card+pin, from e-savings you have to transfer to flexaccount then to the e-isa
<oimon> but it's really slow and regularly times out too
<sirgad> hmm, can't go savings>isa?  weird.
<oimon> i also notice they reduced the rates on their e-savings to 0.45% and now go to e-savings-plus for 2% rate
<sirgad> at least you have the otp security.  they won't upgrade me to that :(
<oimon> mrs oimon has that, i don't
<oimon> it's not very secure, cos i have to write it all down
<oimon> the halifax account is so much easier
<sirgad> lol quel coincidence! I bank with hbos too. they ARE easier, especially afcter the upgrade.
<oimon> they advertise a members ISA bond a few years ago with great rates, then you have to transfer it to the e-isa to get semi decent rates
<oimon> i hate this chasing game - it's just a con on the customers
<sirgad> ooc have you read the nationwide online banking fraud protection conditions?  highly recommended if you use linux.
<oimon> nope
<sirgad> you may not be covered.
<oimon> really?
<sirgad> very specific.
<oimon> do u have a link?
<sirgad> just discovered recently. hang on...
<daubers> Evening
<brobostigon> good evening daubers
<daubers> anyone else having adsl fun in/around slough this evening?
<sirgad> pretty sure this is it:
<sirgad> http://www.nationwide.co.uk/troubleshooting/browserSupport/default.htm
<sirgad> but not loading for me just now.
<oimon> loads for me...slow site innit?
<sirgad> yupper
<oimon> This browser/version (Firefox 3.6) is supported on other operating systems, but not on the operating system you are currently running
<oimon> jerks
<sirgad> aha, so you're not covered?
<oimon> i would never ever use windows to access my bank
<sirgad> damn straight. i'm in the middle of creating a LiveUSB without persistence for all my secure banking needs.
 * popey wonders why his mumble doent work
<oimon> if i was desperate and at someone's house i would use one of the 4 usb sticks in my pocket
<oimon> good luck to someone getting into my nationwide account- i struggle to get in most of the time
<sirgad> lulz
<sirgad> Ok, i'm in gconf-editor in UCK modifying a LiveCD of Ub10.04x64.   Which values do I edit to disable the startup items?
<AlanBell> anyone want to play on mumble?
<oimon> sirgad: u might wanna ping MartijnVdS on that one, he might not have noticed your question
<sirgad> Thanks oimon. i don't think he's an expert in this area anyway, from what he says.  Just asking anyone really :)
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/30/s04e03-lightning-strikes-twice/
<brobostigon> AlanBell: maybe, let me see if i cant find somewhere quiet, and out of the way.
<AlanBell> anyone else thinking of joining the Ubuntu Global Jam on saturday?
<oimon> i'm liking jcastro's unity blogposts on omgubuntu
<oimon> how can i discover if my trackpad supports multitouch?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: when it shows a "two-finger" option in the "MOuse" preferences (touchpad tab)
<oimon> boo :(
<oimon> greyed-out
<MartijnVdS> it un-greyed in natty for me
<MartijnVdS> so it might be buggy in 10.10
<oimon> i'm in 10.04
 * oimon fishes around for natty usb stick
<popey> top - 20:20:08 up 35 days,  2:45,  6 users,  load average: 39.59, 39.92, 19.12
<popey> :(
 * popey stabs apache
<MartijnVdS> stabpache
<Jibadeeha> kill -9 apache
<MartijnVdS> kill --with-fire
<Jibadeeha> lol
<mgdm> popey: before you stab it can you strace -p it for a bit to see what it's up to?
<mgdm> popey: unless it's already gone too far...
<popey> I give up
<popey> uhm
<popey> lots of apache processes
<popey> this is not good
<mgdm> what's your MaxSpareServers set to?
<mgdm> and MaxClients, for that matter
<popey> right, we're using prefork
<popey>     StartServers          5
<popey>     MinSpareServers       5
<popey>     MaxSpareServers      10
<popey>     MaxClients          150
<popey>     MaxRequestsPerChild   0
<mgdm> maybe set your MaxRequestPerChild to something like 2000 or so - that way if you are hitting a memory leak, the children will die before it has too much effect
<popey> right
<popey> thanks, will try that
<mgdm> is it Wordpress you're running?
<popey> apache2ctl graceful will take that new config into account
<popey> yes
<mgdm> Got any static caching stuff set up?
<popey> no
<mgdm> Ah! If you can, do that
<mgdm> I'm afraid I don't do a lot of WP so I have no recommendations for plugins, but I am aware that there are some
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I've been using this for ages on TheOpenSourcerer WP blog - no issues with it whatsoever: http://ocaoimh.ie/wp-super-cache/
<popey> i have had that installed for a while actually
<TheOpenSourcerer> alanl@www:~$ uptime
<TheOpenSourcerer>  21:29:10 up 103 days, 23:24,  1 user,  load average: 0.53, 0.30, 0.27
<popey> not enabled tho :)
<mgdm> No point in doing work you dont' need to :)
<popey> right, added
<popey> thanks chaps!
<mgdm> Hope it works :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm whacked. Been doing OpenERP, Joomla! _and_ vtiger stuff all day. Time to go to bed with a scotch and a good book.
<Azelphur> Anyone here got a netvertible? :)
<ali1234> a what now?
<MartijnVdS> that one got lost in the marketingspeak filter
<Azelphur> http://www.google.co.uk/images?client=ubuntu&channel=cs&q=netvertible&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1908&bih=1032
<Azelphur> ali1234: ^
<matti> TheOpenSourcerer: ;-)
<ali1234> yeah ive got one of those
<popey> there's loads of different devices there
<MartijnVdS> I'd call it a lap-pad
<popey> and yeah, I have one too
<Azelphur> cool, which ones did you both get? :)
<popey> mine is a toshiba m400
<MartijnVdS> popey: that ancient one you had in Sevilla?
<popey> yes!
<popey> it's now a minecraft server :D
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<ali1234> got a lenovo s10-3t courtesy intel and nokia
<Azelphur> haha :D
<MartijnVdS> sorry
<MartijnVdS> [o]
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's fancy :p
<ali1234> i think the dell one is nicer tbh
<Azelphur> ali1234: you get so much free stuff :(
<Azelphur> yea, I'm liking the dell one myself
<ali1234> the ideapad hinge isn't great
<Azelphur> My brother knows a dell outlet guy who should cut me a good deal
<ali1234> the dell flip around thing is rock solid
<ali1234> ideapad screen wobbles a bit when you touch it
<Azelphur> yea, I always worried about the hinge design on most netvertibles
<ali1234> i took apart the ideapad and the hinge is kind of crappy inside too, it's just some cable
<mgdm> Can I just suggest that we kill that "netvertible" word
<mgdm> It's *horrible*
<ali1234> yeah me too
<Azelphur> :o
<Azelphur> what should we call them
<mgdm> until "netvertible" came along they were called tablet PCs
<Azelphur> I thought tablet PC applied to devices that are just tablets
<ali1234> no, those are just tablets
<mgdm> which is not brilliant but it doesn't sound like a marketer after 4 pints and a litre of red bull
<Azelphur> fair enough, tablet pc it is :P
<Azelphur> ali1234: I had an interesting idea, dunno how possible it would be
<ali1234> well my verdict is they are too heavy to use like a tablet
<ali1234> so if you want to use it that way get a tablet instead
<ali1234> but the touchscreen is a lot nicer to use than a touchpad
<MartijnVdS> smudges!
<ali1234> not really no
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> since they are glossy
<willy_1977> evening.
<ali1234> i'm wondering what genius decided that the menus on unity would hide until you mouse over them
<ali1234> makes unity as rubbish for touchscreen devices as it is for multiheaded desktop
<ali1234> which pretty much means it won't work on any of my machines
<MartijnVdS> â¥ classic gnome
<ali1234> indeed
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> ali1234: On android you can chroot to debian/ubuntu, I wonder how difficult it'd be to do the opposite (On Ubuntu chroot to android) for tablet PCs? :P
<ali1234> and hildon desktop for the lenovo
<ali1234> Azelphur: been done
<popey> ali1234: Mark Shuttleworth
<ali1234> it's called the android sdk
<popey> 21:45:10 < ali1234> i'm wondering what genius decided that the menus on unity would hide until you mouse over them
<popey> ^^
<MartijnVdS> they should fire that guy 8-)
<popey> https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05037.html
<ali1234> popey: intel learned the hard way this is a bad idea with the meego netbook interface, which has bits that hide until you mouse over them
<popey> check the google doc linked there
<ali1234> popey: and now they are busy writing the whole UI from scratch for tablets
<popey> look at the home directory in the screenshots :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: the android sdk emulator is native/full speed?
<ali1234> Azelphur: what is "full speed"?
<Azelphur> well, a speed that doesn't suck :D
<Myrtti> â¥ XFCE
<ali1234> you won;t get android market though
<Azelphur> ali1234: is there not hacks for that?
<ali1234> but then you wo't get that without buying an android device
<ali1234> probably, i wouldn't know about that kind of thing
<popey> i am sure I have had the market in my sdk
<popey> it's just a tickbox away
<Azelphur> cool :D
<Azelphur> when I get my tablet PC I'm definitely gonna be trying to pull that off
<popey> its not quick
<Azelphur> android in tablet mode, Ubuntu in laptop mode would be awesome
<ali1234> i think the sdk uses qemu
<ali1234> so not full speed
<ali1234> i think there is a hack somewhere that runs native android in a window though
<ali1234> i dunno why you would want this though
<popey> anyone here on natty?
<Azelphur> popey: me
<popey> CTRL+ALT+T used to open a terminal for me
<ali1234> on the test machine sure
<popey> it does, but only one, it doesn't open subsequent ones
<ali1234> works for me (clasic gnome)
<popey> hmm, keyboard shortcut has changed
<ali1234> multiple terminals
 * popey changes it back
<MonsterKiller> hello. im having some problems with rc.local not being run on boot. I can execute the rc.local files manually and they work fine but they dont seem to do anything when the system starts
<MonsterKiller> there is a /etc/init.d/rc.local http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbjhwhbjzhbjrr and i have an /etc/rc.local http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbjhwhbkkkhwez
<ali1234> what an odd set of things to put in rc.local
<MonsterKiller> the /etc/init.d/rc.local was already created i did nothing to it
<MonsterKiller> well, it works
<MonsterKiller> :P
<MonsterKiller> if i do it manually
<popey> ah, i did a unity --reset which probably undid my keyboard shortcuts
<MonsterKiller> like: /etc/rc.local and everything would run fine
<MonsterKiller> anyone have any ideas? been trying to work it out for days now. forgot to mention, using Ubuntu server 10.10
 * willy_1977 has just realised that shortcut keys in mumble apply throughout the desk top :p
<popey> haha
 * popey pokes AlanBell 
<willy_1977> popey: it's done on the mumble server I *think*
<popey> ahh
<willy_1977> would answer there but have fluffed up my ptt setting at the minute :)
<popey> hahah
<willy_1977> hahah!
 * willy_1977 is mumbling
<willy_1977> yeah popey the mumble server has the concept of a super user who can fiddle with settings on the root node etc. add channels and the like.
<popey> neat
 * popey goes looking for a bluetooth headset
 * daubers can't mumble because f the 3g interwebs
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E03  Lightning Strikes Twice - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/30/s04e03-lightning-strikes-twice/
<bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PtpMs6pn4 # titter
<Azelphur> bigcalm: lol
<AlanBell> popey: willy_1977 restarting the server
<willy_1977> kk
<popey> :)
<popey> i like that it sits there trying to reconnect
<willy_1977> yeah, and there's no way to stop it re-trying at all (well I didn't find one... )
<willy_1977> "It appears your mumble server is down, mumble client panic..."
<AlanBell> might be back up now
<brobostigon> it is, :)
<Azelphur> anyone know how to get the ADSL info out of the current gen sky routers? :p
<willy_1977> bringing back bad memories I have a perfectly good router sat here that has skys firmware on and I'm not with sky anymore...
<willy_1977> have you tried the skyusers forums?
<Azelphur> nope
<willy_1977> hang on I'll try and find a url
<willy_1977> are the latest ones the sagem ones?
<Azelphur> willy_1977: dunno, hasn't arrived yet
<Azelphur> april 4th :P
<Azelphur> if it comes to it I'll just plug my router into the sky router and use it as a modem xD
<willy_1977> Azelphur: try http://www.skyuser.co.uk/ and do some digging when you know what sort - there has been some talk on there about having to flash them
<willy_1977> and then someone came up with the idea of just enabling telnet on them...
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> why april 4th?
<RichardoCrispus> Hi?
<Azelphur> ali1234: because that's when they deliver the stuff
<willy_1977> anyhow long story short sky shutdown some of these loopholes and I can't seem to get at my router anyway so I now have a black net gear door stop :)
<Azelphur> (In theory, I'm kind of not holding my breath)
<ali1234> can't you just carry on using the old stuff?
<Azelphur> ali1234: they give you a preconfigured router and no easy way to get your user/pass
 * willy_1977 can't connect to mumble... client problems... :/
<Azelphur> but on the other hand, unlimited no fup :3
<willy_1977> I saw a page that would generate it for you but I can't find it now...
<Azelphur> hehe, I'm sure I'll figure it out
<willy_1977> ha... got it... but it'll only allow 3 tries from a single ip daily... just so you know... https://www.cm9.net/skypass/
<willy_1977> it depends if they've changed the routers again I guess.
<Azelphur> willy_1977: nice ty :D
<Azelphur> nice to not have to hack up the sky router, then I can just put it in a cupboard and get it out if I need to call sky because stuff is brokedt
<willy_1977> Azelphur: no problem - hope you have more luck than me...
<Azelphur> I have no doubt I'll pull it off :)
<Azelphur> "It is entirely possible for Sky to detect not only the MAC address of the router you are using, but also the make and model number,"
<Azelphur> note to self: forge this information :p
<willy_1977> hehee
<willy_1977> right catch you laters said I was having an early night tonight... hmmmm
<AlanBell> yay, broke into my own mumble server at last
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> popey: still no DNS joy
<popey> :(
<AlanBell> but I am off to put the chickens to bed now, maybe it will all sort itself out in the morning
<popey> :)
<popey> nn
<AlanBell> but I have at least made a permanent channel and I can do admin stuff like muting and kicking people
<popey> yay
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<popey> nn
<brobostigon> good night popey, sleep well.
<Nafallo> popey: I'm not getting triggered for uupc, and have poked Daviey. I just kicked off a manual sync though, so I should be up-to-date and ready to serve if you want to put me back in the listings.
<popey> Nafallo: yay
<popey> Nafallo: enabled :D
<popey> thank you!
<popey> Nafallo: the new sync script only pokes servers that are enabled
<bigcalm> popey: Fri & Mon time off aquired :)
<popey> :)
<Nafallo> popey: heh
<Nafallo> popey: there. now the sync script should exit 0 as well.
<bigcalm> popey: 45 mins into the podcast and you're doing battle with middle clicking on laptops. I find that clicking both left and right at the same time issues a middle click. Lets see if it's mentioned in the rest of the podcast
<popey> is it?
<popey> hmmm
<Nafallo> clash with paths and rsync being unhappy about not being able to set permissions on /var/www/
<popey> on mine, two fingers = right click, three = middle
<bigcalm> popey: on the buttons or on the pad?
<popey> pad
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Try the buttons :)
<popey> i have no buttons :D
<popey> mbp
<bigcalm> Silly boi :P
<hamitron> missing features.....
<popey> heh
<hamitron> cheap, but not cheap
<hamitron> ;)
<bigcalm> For those of us who still enjoy physical interaction, clicking the left and right _buttons_ at the same time will issue a middle click ;)
<popey> i was amused that laura was sat next to me with a thinkpad
<popey> which actually _has_ a middle button
<bigcalm> Heh
<hamitron> so Mac have gone from 1 button to 0?
<gord> you can use middle click on all laptops someway right? i was assured that all laptops have some way of doing middle click
<popey> i dont know of a laptop you cant do it on
<popey> i own 5 laptops and can do it on all of them
<gord> cool
<bigcalm> Personally I tend not to tap on the pad for buttons clicks
<mgdm> it's a bit of a faff on the Aspire One, but perfectly doable
<bigcalm> So I'm sure there are other users like me
<gord> note to self, buy more laptops. popey is winning.
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> hmmm
<bigcalm> But then I know of people who disable the physical buttons
<popey> i tend to use a mouse these days
<popey> especially as touchpad support on the mbp is linux is _awful_
<bigcalm> I always use a mouse if I can
<hamitron> popey: and it has no buttons?
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> it has one giant button
<gord> what about people who have mice, but the mouse only has two buttons?
<hamitron> a very sensitive one too
<popey> usual
<popey> press both
<gord> cool cool
<popey> no, the button isnt sensitive
<popey> the touchpad is
<Nafallo> ooooh.
<popey> separate things
<hamitron> k
<Nafallo> so THAT'S how I rightclick...
<Nafallo> thanks popey! :-D
<popey> np :)
<hamitron> well, putting aside how functional the mbp is, at least it looks good
 * Nafallo goes to sort out his empathy contacts
<popey> heheh
<gord> i think this app that detects your heart rate is the app i use most on my phone... its fascinating
<hamitron> http://www.maplin.co.uk/vx2-mobile-phone-513430?&c=maplin&u=maplinnewsletter&utm_source=banners&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=newsletterproducts&utm_campaign=maplin
<hamitron> should I?
<hamitron> been asking myself for 4 hours
<hamitron> :/
<Nafallo> gord: does it tweet the results? ;-)
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> and auto reply if your heart stops
<bigcalm> hamitron: tesco had those for ages
<bigcalm> hamitron: do you need it?
<hamitron> bigcalm: any good?
 * hamitron shrugs
<bigcalm> No idea
<gord> hamitron, just based on the fact that the favicon for that site animates, i say no
<popey> http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=VX2+review&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gl=uk
<bigcalm> I don't need one so haven't bought one
<hamitron> use an ngage atm
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P9GEkM2jMs
<popey> lol
<popey> not the same thing AT ALL
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Somebody is holding the camera?
<hamitron> it appears to have a graphical equaliser on the display in the pic
<Nafallo> popey: so... how quickly does mirrors get disabled these days? I haven't done my file tweaks to this guest yet, so performance is not as good as it could be :-P
<popey> manually
<Nafallo> ah. so don't disable ent without poking me then ;-)
<popey> ok
<Nafallo> that guest does ONLY uupc, so I wont notice unless poked ;-)
<Nafallo> oh man... I've missed right click! :-)
<hamitron> oh noes
<hamitron> I forgot to backup my saved game on civilization when i formated :/
<popey> \o/ steam
<hamitron> saved games are non-local on steam?
<popey> they sync to the cloud
<hamitron> that is kinda cool
<popey> dead handy if you have more than one computer
<hamitron> yeh
<popey> i start games on one, finish on another
<Nafallo> haha. the cloud is the new matrix.
<popey> :)
<hamitron> just don't annoy any steam employee, or the saved game you've spent month on "gets it"
<Azelphur> hamitron: lol, reminds me of all the kids I get on my server
<Azelphur> when they don't get what they want they announce they work at valve and will report me / shut my server down / ban my steam account
<Azelphur> xD
<hamitron> hehe
<ali1234> lolz
<Azelphur> happens surprisingly often
<Azelphur> the best one I ever had was some guy reconnect after changing his name to "Steam server inspector"
<ali1234> i'd be suprised if you couldn't report them for impersonating valve employee
<Azelphur> and telling me my server was going to be shut down unless I met his demands xD
<hamitron> hehe
<popey> http://weirdcorner.com/?p=2082 cute
<hamitron> yeh, report them as ali said
<Azelphur> lol valve don't care about it :P
<Azelphur> they only use VAC and that's about it
<ali1234> popey that better not be a screamer
<popey> no
<popey> "optical illusion"
<Azelphur> popey: that's cool :o
<Azelphur> 3d animation on paper, haha
 * Nafallo srsly considers getting a roomba or equivalent
<ali1234> it's not 3d
<ali1234> you can do it with video or anything really
<Azelphur> ali1234: what?
<Azelphur> how's a spinning cube not 3d o.O
<hamitron> how is it "cute"?
<ali1234> it's not giving different images to each eye
<Azelphur> ali1234: I meant 3d in terms of glxgears is a 3d application :p
<Azelphur> 3d images rendered in 2d
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-31
<ali1234> ok i've got a question
<ali1234> since valve wrote source from scratch for half life 2, why didn't they FIX LADDERS!?
<Azelphur> because they are valve?
<ali1234> hl2 is kind of easier than the first one :/
<Azelphur> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/03/30/2148244/Samsung-Plants-Keyloggers-On-Laptops
<Azelphur> time to not buy samsung?
<hamitron> should it be a problem if you format?
<hamitron> or it embedded in the bios?
<Azelphur> hamitron: looks like it's part of the OS, so reformat should kill it
<hamitron> but I guess it is the principle
<Azelphur> indeed
<hamitron> man, just got a free mp3 off amazon, and love io
<hamitron> it
<hamitron> just shows it is worth trying stuff
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> suppose I should get sleep soon
<hamitron> gotta be up in just over 5 hours
<hamitron> o/
<rbnswartz> Oli``` Are you around?
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> I'm awake honest
<MartijnVdS> suuure
<HazRPG> lol
<nigelb> morning
<HazRPG> morning
<daubers> Mornng
<jonsaint> hi all. anyone got a rough idea when the next ubuntu will be out? i know its next month but theres a lot of days in april lol
<hoover> mornin all
<daubers> !natty
<lubotu3> Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04, due April 28 2011. Help and support (only) in #ubuntu+1. Natty is unstable and is not intended for production systems.
<DJones> Morning
<AlanBell> morning all
<MooDoo> hello
<diplo> morning
<czajkowski> Aloha
<Tommeh> o/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dwatkins> hihi
<MooDoo> orning
<DJones> Can anybody see any hardware that might be a problem with either of these two laptops http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ArgosComparison?storeId=10001&catalogId=1500002701&categoryId=&langId=-1&returnToURL=%2Fwebapp%2Fwcs%2Fstores%2Fservlet%2FBrowse%3FstoreId%3D10001%26langId%3D-1%26ID72%3D14419040%26c_1%3D1|category_root|Office%2C%2BPCs%2Band%2Bphones|14418968%26c_2%3D2|14418968|Laptops%2Band%2Bnetbooks|14419039%26c_3%3D3|cat_14419039
<DJones> The hp looks to be broadcom wireless, can't find out what the msi is
<DJones> Although some of the hp's are atheros as well
<DJones> Hmmh, msi looks to be ralink 6890/6891
<DJones> ratehr the 6890/6891 are the windows driver numbers
<screen-x> morning :)
<oimon> morning
<czajkowski> Does Open Source *really* save money? London School of Economics study your chance to prove - simple form to fill in: http://bit.ly/dP74g6
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<gord> i'v never really been comfortable with marketing open source as "it saves money" - just sounds like we are undervaluing what we are pushing. just tell the accountants it saves money, tell everyone else its awesome ;)
<oimon> there's also uptime and smooth systems rollout
<oimon> zimbra has a TCO of around 1/3 of Exchange but that's not the only reason you would choose it
<nigelb> gord: That sounds like a good idea :)
<gord> aw man. pyweek is starting again - i miss taking part in those :(
<AlanBell> gord: everyone agrees with that, however if the cabinet office say "we won't use Open Source or buy services relating to it until there are reputable TCO studies showing that it makes fiscal sense" and offer to pay half the costs of the study, then a study by the LSE will get commissioned
<Myrtti> hm
<Myrtti> is it strange that I find it often easier to work with smbclient and sftp directly on the CLI instead of graphical tools?
<gord> Myrtti, i just ssh://foobar.com in nautilus and do it all there most days
<Myrtti> I haven't used nautilus in three or four years
<Myrtti> s/in/for/
<Myrtti> otherwise a good idea
<czajkowski> AlanBell: my only objections is the OFE is tarred with it
<JamesTait> Good morning, all! :D
<AlanBell> czajkowski: by which you mean funded the other half of it
<AlanBell> can't say I am a big fan of the thing, but it serves a purpose
<AlanBell> personally I think TCO studies are not worth the PDF they are written on
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Right to the internet - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/03/right-to-the-internet/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: well they push open standards which isn't necessairyly open source
<BigRedS> czajkowski: but it allows open source
<czajkowski> yes but it doesn't push or  advocate it either
<AlanBell> yes, this is true
<czajkowski> so I dont think having them associated with a survey which is looking at finding out about oss is good. just how I feel
<AlanBell> it would have been better if fsfe had funded it, certainly
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> you could of course argue that it should be independaly funded so that either sides groups dont have a bias with it
<AlanBell> cabinet office didn't want to fund all of it
<AlanBell> fsfe couldn't afford it
<AlanBell> so OFE is tared with it
<czajkowski> yup tis just a bit unfortunate.
<czajkowski> from my point of view I can see the OFE sending it to partners and what nots who may be anti oss but open to open standards
<czajkowski> so that wil give the survey a slant
<AlanBell> LSE is sending it out and is responsible for removing any bias
<AlanBell> finding suitable organisations to survey is non-trivial
<czajkowski> nods
<oimon> would like to fill in the survey as i use open source heavily in my org, but don't wanna get follow-up or spam from it
<AlanBell> oimon: I don't believe the London School of Economics is going to do followup spam, or share the email addresses
<oimon> "If so, we will be pleased to talk further about this specific case in interview."
<AlanBell> oh yeah, they are going to do more detailed interviews with a few large organisations
<AlanBell> but nothing after the project as a whole
<HazRPG> BigRedS: btw dude, I've got a guide put up about setting up an IPv6 on my blog now @ http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/2011/03/31/ipv6-under-ubuntu-10-10/ - enjoy :D
<shauno> morning
<HazRPG> shauno: mornin dude :)
<HazRPG> finally did that write up of my IPv6 adventure :)
<czajkowski> So does anyone have suggestions for a pub for after the BCS launch of NN if so, talk to AlanBell
<AlanBell> I should probably email the list about that
<BigRedS> HazRPG: Cheers! I have even less of an excuse now :)
<BigRedS> wherebouts is this launch?
<HazRPG> BigRedS: No problem dude :P
<screen-x> heh, script stopped working, I was grepping out times with grep -v GMT, the output has now changed to BST :p
<AlanBell> at the British Computing Society on Southampton Street in London
<AlanBell> on the 28th April
<HazRPG> BigRedS: if you run into any trouble just let me know, or ask the lovely people here :)
<popey> hey HazRPG useful! I have not done any IPV6 stuff, so will bookmark that
<X3N> popey: is sshd being oom killed?
<popey> X3N: i made some changes to apache config last night on recommendation from mgdm
<popey> when we released the podcast the load average on that box went to 42
<X3N> hmm
<HazRPG> popey: No problem :). I've been using miredo for years on and off and also teredo for years on windows systems... thought I'd see how hard it was to set it all up myself. Much kudos goes to MartijnVdS and shauno for all the help :).
<popey> X3N: its much better now
<diplo> jeesh, fairly heavy then popey
<diplo> See you in Linux Format a couple of times popey :)
<diplo> Cartoon and letter
<popey> o_O
<popey> really?
<X3N> popey: I'm still getting critical alerts from nagios, 9:32am, 05:32am, 01:32
<oimon> do some of you UUPC guys have the viglen mpc-l ?
<X3N> times at which i wouldn't have thought coincide with the load going up
<popey> it looks timed every 4 hours
<diplo> Cartoon is ref 'Mumbuntu'
<popey> oh yes :)
<popey> daubers scanned it for me :)
<diplo> And the letter is ref support if i remember correctly
<popey> oooo, not seen that
<X3N> popey: maybe it's looking at the wrong port?
 * oimon is looking for a small form factor pc to use for digital display screen in a foyer
<popey> I'll ask
<popey> oimon: acer aspire revo
<popey> viglen is awful for anything graphical
<popey> the revo is nice and cheap
<popey> and has hdmi out too, which makes it useful with big tellys
<AlanBell> does the revo have vesa mounts?
<oimon> popey: cool, i'll check it out. also have a spare mac mini here which i could stick linux on. all i need is to display a firefox page in kiosk mode
<HazRPG> Feel free to point out any mistakes (spelling/grammar/etc), or if there's an easier/better way of doing things... those are essentially the steps I did to get IPv6 going (both for individual and for setting up an IPv6 router/advertiser)
<oimon> vesa mounts are a plus
<diplo> popey, been meaning to ask you.. have  a few blue ray rips to watch at the mo, 4-12GB plays fine on the revo under XP but buffers all the time on Ubuntu
<diplo> Do you have the same issues ?
<popey> yes AlanBell
<popey> i have a revo mounted on the back of a telly
<popey> diplo: what player?
<gord> i find wifi isn't good enough for HD content on my revo, use ethernet
<diplo> Any..
<diplo> VLC/Totem etc
<oimon> popey: where did you buy yours? is it the r3700?
<diplo> All lag out
<diplo> Wondering if it's not utilising the ION
<davmor2> morning all
<gord> diplo, try xbmc - that will use vdpau
<oimon> revo looks like exactly what i will need
<diplo> ah yes I do have that installed, think I need to bring it to work and play with it..
<diplo> Works fine with anything up to a gig and a half, anything over it starts dieing
<popey> oimon: ebuyer, i have the older one, the 3600, single core cpu, there's the 3660 which is dual core
<oimon> the linux one is far cheaper i notice: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236579
<popey> yup
<popey> smaller hardware though iirc
<oimon> seems like 160gb-250gb hard drive + windows home premium, can't notice anything else
<popey> yeah, the hdd
<popey> not a massive difference i guess for your use
<gord> there is a new revo out iirc - or maybe i dreamt that
<gord> smaller form factor
<oimon> ooh
<oimon> gord: is that the RL100?
<oimon> Â£185 can't go wrong. i bought a onelan box before for non-techies to manage digital signage and it cost Â£950
<oimon> those boxes run fedora
<gord> RV100 i think
<gord> i'm happy with my old revos though, smaller form factor would be nice but i'm not gonna replace them for that ;)
<BigRedS> Argh. Why do people make websites, buy a cert for it, then redirect 99% of https visitors to a cleartext page?
<AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-March/029306.html
<oimon> today is beta1 day isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> I wish it was beta-quality though
<oimon> MartijnVdS: last night we were chatting about multi-touch - does yours work?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: only one/two-finger
<MartijnVdS> oimon: (two finger scroll, one-finger click)
<MartijnVdS> haven't tried anything else
<oimon> botted into natty and the 2 finger touch was not greyed out , so i selected it, but couldn't get it to work. - the only effect was that vertical scroll disappeared
<MartijnVdS> oimon: you can't vertical scroll with two fingers?
<oimon> no :(
<oimon> maybe i was "holding it wrong"
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> it's the same on my work laptop
<oimon> i have a dell d630
<MartijnVdS> Dell E6500 here
<BigRedS> Wait, the launch is on the royal wedding weekend?
<MartijnVdS> my laptop at home is a Sony Vaio something-or-other
<BigRedS> that's unfortunate
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: only for the UK
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: the rest of the world doesn't care ;)
<AlanBell> BigRedS: we booked the date first
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: haha, yeah
<BigRedS> AlanBell: yeah, it's just that London's going to be a bad place to be then
<AlanBell> it is the day before
<BigRedS> I had plans to be quite definitely elsewhere, though I hadn't yet decided where
<oimon> wonder if my lack of 2 finger scroll is a bug or just lack of feature in my trackpad :S
<AlanBell> Wills could come out for a drink with us as his last night as a free man
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I think it's a hardware thing
<oimon> then the ungreyed option is a bug :P
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I think they ungreyed it because it was greyed out on lots of working hardware as ewll
<oimon> ah ok thanks
<MartijnVdS> oimon: i.e. it's hard/impossible to detect whether it works without trying it
<oimon> think i have a alps touchpad rather than synaptics :(
<MartijnVdS> oimon: that shouldn't really matter -- my EeePC had Alps and it had two-finger support
<MartijnVdS> [    30.130] (II) AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint TouchPad: failed to open grail, no gesture support
<MartijnVdS> hmmmm
<oimon> oh yeah, works on my eee
<oimon> although nothing much else does in natty
<czajkowski> ninjas!
<HazRPG> czajkowski: they're everywhere!
<czajkowski> just listened to end of the show and remembered daubers mail
<HazRPG> hehe
<HazRPG> now that's interesting... why has Rhythm decided to delete my subbed podcasts...
<directhex> it hates you
<MartijnVdS> this is why I use Google Reader + Listen on my phone
<HazRPG> directhex: :( don't say that!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I use google reader for most things...
<HazRPG> if that counts...
<directhex> you considered using banshee once, now RB hates you!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: do you have an Android phone?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ...oh course! :P
<HazRPG> if its got linux on-board, I've most likely got it (or plan to get it!) :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: install Google Listen, it'll connect to your Google Reader
<HazRPG> I'm pretty sure I have listen...
<HazRPG> and yes... yes I do!
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/! Howdy squire!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<screen-x> HazRPG: is that dude trying to reach his foot?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning, good blog post, :)
<HazRPG> screen-x: nope, that dude is trying to touch the sky! :P
<HazRPG> brobostigon: why thanks :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: you're welcome, :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hmm... does the stuff I subscribe to on Listen show up on Google Reader?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, in the "Listen Subscriptions" folder
<HazRPG> ah, yeah was just about to say I stopped it
 * brobostigon goes to play with mumble, and tweak it.
<bigcalm> Anybody here used PHPExcel to save as Excel 2003 XML file format?
<shauno> oi, language :p
<screen-x> shauno: which of those obscenities were you particularly offended by?
<shauno> oddly, I think xml is probably the worst offender there.  but the combination was shocking!
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> I am but a code monkey bowing to a client's wishes :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/ mumble ftw!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<bigcalm> I think it's time to hunt down some lunch
<HazRPG> shauno: what's wrong with xml? Most of your browsing needs are probably catered by xml :P
<czajkowski> .c
<brobostigon> HazRPG: want a play?
<screen-x> HazRPG: xml is fine, just not suitable for humans
<shauno> I spent a summer with xslt.  consider me scarred.
<willy_1977> xslt... that should be on the banned list...
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, now xslt I can agree... that's just pure evil
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm, you setup a mumble server?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: not my own, no. its is the one we willbe using for globaljam on saturday and quiz night, mumble.libertus.co.uk , AlanBell set itup, i believe.
<willy_1977> I think there may be another domain coming through soon too...
<brobostigon> willy_1977: mybe mumble.ubuntu-uk.org
<willy_1977> still pointing at at the host  brobostigon put.
<willy_1977> brobostigon: yeah I think it was that...
<brobostigon> willy_1977: it was, iwas there for the discussion.
<willy_1977> ah yeah I remember now :) I was trying to think up jokes to make you laugh whilst sat in the living room :D
<brobostigon> willy_1977: yes. :)
 * willy_1977 has a memory like one of those kitchen implements with the holes in...?
<brobostigon> sieve*
<willy_1977> brobostigon: that's it.
<brobostigon> willy_1977: :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: well I'm in
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I was there when AlanBell was making sure he'd set it up right
<brobostigon> HazRPG: did you hear me?
<HazRPG> \o/
<brobostigon> o/
<HazRPG> should get more people in!
<shauno> already shopping for upgrades for a laptop that hasn't arrived yet \o/
<HazRPG> shauno: \o/
<HazRPG> shauno: hit the mumble server up!
<shauno> do I have to?  I did that yesterday :p
<brobostigon> :)
<shauno> speex does pretty well at low rates
<HazRPG> it does indeed!
<brobostigon> :)
<gord> its not quite as nice as SLIK though :( but silk likes to eat a bit more bandwidth
<gord> and at low bitrates silk *sucks*
<HazRPG> heh
<diplo> Anyone running Natty under virtual box on windows ?
<davmor2> gord: yes silk is only really useful at the highest bandwidth,  in you hand right now. :)
<X3N> anyone know if lovefilm limits the number of accounts to address?
<popey> "Subsequent free trials by the same person at any address, or by another person at the same address, are not permitted. You must have internet access and valid payment details to redeem a free trial offer. "
<tugrik> do you live in a house or a flat?
<popey> http://www.lovefilm.com/info/terms_and_conditions.html
<X3N> ah thanks
<popey> http://www.hercules.com/uk/ecafe/bdd/p/157/ecafe-trade-slim-hd-black-/
<popey> http://www.hercules.com/uk/ecafe/bdd/p/156/
<popey> interesting devices
<directhex> popey, looks like an efika, from the spec?
<popey> howd they crowbar an efika mobo in that case?
<X3N> it looks like a dinner tray
<popey> the photo makes it look tiny
<davmor2> popey: that is why I'm assuming it has the pig ugly sticky up bits either end
<popey> but it has a 10" screen
<popey> ah yes
 * oimon notices that the session is now called Ubuntu/Ubuntu classic rather than Gnome classic
<popey> yeah, i noticed that
<davmor2> me notices the 4px ubiquity task bar hasn't been fixed yet :D
 * czajkowski wallops davmor2 and goes back to work, see I'm alive! 
<davmor2> czajkowski: I know you are just heard you on UUPC
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod just to be sure though
 * oimon is disappointed to discover that it's not friday after all
<AlanBell> I know a song about Friday
<oimon> has anyone tried speeding that friday song up to see if it really is justin bieber?
<directhex> it's better than friday.
<DJones> oimon: Would anybody realy want to take the risk of listening to justin bieber
<oimon> my 7 year old nephew got introduced to bieber by his teacher. i'm thinking of complaining
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
<willy_1977> oimon: surely that's classed as abuse?
<DJones> Surely there's got to be laws against that
<Tommeh> I was going to say
<Tommeh> That's creepy
<oimon> christmas day, he put a song called baby, baby,baby, baby,baby, baby,baby, baby,baby, baby,baby, baby, on repeat
<shauno> I trust you made him stand in the corner?
<oimon> no but i suggested extra home-schooling to right the wrongs taught by the education system each day
 * brobostigon and shauno and HazRPG are having a little party on mumble.
<HazRPG> \o/
<willy_1977> this is led zepplin... jimmy page came through a number of bands... etc. etc. that kind of thing?
<shauno> brobostigon: trouble-maker.sourceforge.net
<shauno> I'm bored and want to play :o)
<MartijnVdS> willy_1977: "This is a record player." + 70s albums? :)
<brobostigon> shauno: thank you.
<willy_1977> MartijnVdS: what do you mean you've never seen a black cd that's so big?
<willy_1977> ifconfig
<willy_1977> doh!
<shauno> this could be terrifying.  I haven't used a RH-based distro since the end of the 90s
<oimon> mind you, i didn't buy my first single until i was 9 : ghostbusters.
<popey> Shaky :S
<popey> actually might have been Donna Summer
<willy_1977> village people?
<shauno> first album I bought was queen.  25 years later, the last album I bought was queen too.  taste ftw :D
<oimon> when i was little i thought shakin stevens was actually elvis
<DJones> !elvis
<willy_1977> oimon: how very dare you.
<willy_1977> I think I went straight to albums before then I was happy listening to what other family in the house had... but my first lp was bon jovi :/
<oimon> my first LP: queen live magic , first CD: pixies bossanova
<willy_1977> that's a good one...
<oimon> glad i didn't invest much in LPs, mostly CDs
<willy_1977> the old skeleton in my lp locker is the teenage mutant ninja turtles album... *runs off and hides*
<oimon> oof
<shauno> I ditched most my CDs when I started moving around so much.  I still have my vinyl hidden away tho :o)
<davmor2> AlanBell: is it something to do with it being poets day?
<shauno> willy_1977: if it makes you feel any better, I think my worst offender may have been right said fred :p
<willy_1977> shauno: oh lordy!
<oimon> i thought it was Backups Day
<gord> last time i moved i ripped all my cd's and got rid of them. much happier - only buy digital content now
<oimon> http://www.worldbackupday.net/
<DJones> How many terrabytes would you need to back up the world?
<oimon> ask google
<davmor2> shauno, willy_1977: Being as I lived through most of the 70's and all of the 80's I can tell you there are far worse lp/signles you can have than those.
<oimon> or was than a pun DJones? terra=earth
<willy_1977> I'm thinking of doing similar gord - but I must admit I do like putting on lp
<DJones> oimon: I'm that awake enough to do a pun that good
<willy_1977> davmor2: that's true... at least I didn't go for rick astley/kylie/jason donovan etc. etc.
<davmor2> willy_1977: Joe Dolce Shattap ya face
<oimon> i was right, monster munch packets have got lighter :(
<willy_1977> davmor2: oh my word, and that kept nivea by ultravox off the top slot didn't it?
<davmor2> willy_1977: and from the 90's just to prove how god awful mr blobby
<shauno> brobostigon: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20shot%202011-03-31%20at%2013.44.31.png
<AlanBell> davmor2: it is an uplifting ditty addressing the perplexing dilemma of whether to sit in the back seat or kick it in the front seat
<DJones> http://www.everyhit.com/worstever.html
<oimon> is unity supported on small screens (e.g. eee 701?)
<willy_1977> davmor2: wasn't bob the builder in 90's as well or had we reset the clocks then?
<AlanBell> personally I think the young lady concerned is only just legally permitted to be in a car without a booster seat, and I am not seeing any seatbelts in use at all
<davmor2> DJones: spaceman should be way higher than that
<DJones> davmor2: I'm just trying to bleach my brain having read "Agadoo" on the list
<AlanBell> which is possibly the worst ever song featuring a chicken
<DJones> AlanBell: Nah, Spitting Image - The chicken song must win that one
<davmor2> DJones: what makes it worse is they haven't even touched on some of the worse songs :)   oh and I owned most of them in my time :D
<DJones> davmor2: Most people have probably owned most of them, even if they've just been stuck on a compliation album as a filler
<davmor2> DJones: don't mock.  Fling a chicken in the air, stick a deck chair up your nose, fly a jumbo jet and bury all your clothes........
<AlanBell> "30 | Michael Bolton | Can I Touch You There?" no idea what that is, but ewwww
<davmor2> startreking by marrs
<DJones> Thats a great song
<willy_1977> only going forward 'cause we can find reverse...
<willy_1977> *can't
<oimon> i remember buying Now thats what i call music vol 5
<oimon> i think they are at 78 now
<davmor2> oimon: I had now that's what I call music 1
<DJones> I've got the first few of those on vinyl
<oimon> davmor2: first song was queen i think?
<oimon> first song on now 5 was frankie :(
<davmor2> it almost alway was in the early days :)
<davmor2> 79 wet, wet, wet love is all around.  A song so annoying that the band pulled it so they still had fans :D
<oimon> does anyone in here work on compiz bugs?
<davmor2> gord: say nothing
<oimon> :P it seems like a one-line fix..:P
<oimon> bug 438868
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 438868 in compiz (Ubuntu Maverick) "Numerous applications have focus issues after emerging from a screensaver or suspend" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438868
<oimon> seems to be annoying a lot of people
<willy_1977> could be their eyes?
<davmor2> popey: did czajkowski swear once when at the house for the UUPC recording?
<davmor2> DJones: nothing by "how to kill a hit" Crazy Frog on that list of worst hits
<Laney> grr
<Laney> tech made me restart my computer to get the serial number out of the bios because he didn't believe the one I showed him from dmidecode was right
<Laney> guess what... it was
<popey> davmor2: no
<popey> Laney: mbp?
<Laney> no, just a black box
<davmor2> popey: I don't believe it (in the best victor meldrew voice)
<Laney> dmidecode -s system-serial-number
<popey> blank here
<Laney> I guess it depends on what your bios provides
<Laney> just do dmidecode -s and you'll get a list of things to query
<davmor2> Laney: you don't understand he has to read from his script and you were trying to buck it.  Next time say I've had this issue before so I wrote down the number :D
<Laney> haha
<Laney> first he crawled around the computer on the floor looking for a number written on it
<willy_1977> Laney: nice...as has been said it's like bucking someone on a scripted telesales call...
<Laney> this guy's pretty sound, I just think he could do with a bit of clue sometimes :-)
<oimon> what are the chances that pc world would sell thermal cpu paste?
<BigRedS> pretty high
<BigRedS> I've bought it from there before
<oimon> really?
<popey> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/atrix-thermal-compound-1-5g-07737499-pdt.html
<oimon> directhex: any views?
<oimon> woops just saw popey link
<oimon> Â£5 LOL..oh well needs must
<directhex> thermal goo isn't worth worrying about. just get whatever you can that's vaguely silvery and comes in a tube
<MartijnVdS> eww!
 * brobostigon shakes fist @ xorg
<brobostigon> mumble kept going though after gpu lockup.
<davmor2> brobostigon: mumble hates you
<brobostigon> davmor2: it worked well though, it kept going, even after xorg crashed and died, so i like that.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: X didn't know the GPU crashed, I guess
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: so it just kept sending commands
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: maybe, yes.
<davmor2> Who just said boo on mumble?
<willy_1977> davmor2: I forgot I had it on yesterday and popey and alan scared the living be-jesus out of me... :p (p.s. it wasn't me)
<popey> that would have been AlanBell
<popey> he moved to another "room"
<popey> as i have
<brobostigon> the globaljam room.
<MartijnVdS> get a room 8-)
 * TheOpenSourcerer looks at his server stats too see how much traffic this mumlbe stuff is using...
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: they only set up rooms so that joke can be repeated constantly
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: good.
<AlanBell> good question TheOpenSourcerer, it shouldn't be much I think
<TheOpenSourcerer> 1/2 a Gig this month.
<MartijnVdS> 1.21 gigabits
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - shiny new router that might just tick all my boxes... http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/31/logitecs-new-wireless-router-is-crazy-looking-crazy-fast/
<shauno> MartijnVdS: did you figure out if that /run stuff was an april fools' joke or not?
<willy_1977> shauno: on the fed mailing list?
<shauno> it showed up on lwn too.  don't read fedora mailing lists, for fairly obvious reasons :o)
<oimon> aahh pc world. if you don't know the answer, maybe you shouldn't say anything
<willy_1977> wow... seems to be the latest bun fight...
<willy_1977> shauno: lwn? london weekend news?
<shauno> close, but no cigar :)
<shauno> lwn.net
<willy_1977> ah ok.
<brobostigon> how do i change the font rendering in natty?
<oimon> the guy presented 2 thermal compunds - "the more expensive one offers better cooling" - i say, isn't it just a bigger tube? "no, they are the same size". when i sent him away, i loked and found one 1.5g and one 4g
<brobostigon> the appearence app doesnt seem to axist anymore.
<willy_1977> shauno: honestly it nearly brought my mail server down :p
<shauno> thermal goo doesn't present any cooling at all.  it's transfer, not disipation :/
<oimon> shauno: they just just show me where the product is and let me make decisions rather than feed me FUD
<shauno> if I have to go anywhere near stores like that, I've one simple trick.  just avoiding shaving for 5 days first, so I look homeless :)
<oimon> on the bright side i probably found the cheapest product in the store
<oimon> and had a go on some 3d glasses - never seen 3d before
 * screen-x wonders if oimon has ever looked outside
<oimon> screen-x: yah, just keep my head down :P
<shauno> I still can't figure out if that /run stuff is serious or not.  think I'll just ignore it for a week and see if it goes away
<oimon> shauno: like the ethernet device names in fedora?
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, what happened to that
<BigRedS> did it go away?
<oimon> BigRedS: nope http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ConsistentNetworkDeviceNaming#Consistent_Network_Device_Naming
<oimon> network device naming will be "consistent" unless you are on a vm, :P  why should i care whether my NIC is embedded or PCI?
<BigRedS> oimon: I remember the argument about whether you care where it is or not, and there's a few use cases where people do
<BigRedS> but I still had hoped that idea had died a death
<shauno> that's an odd one that actually strikes me as useful :/
<oimon> it would suck unless there were still aliases that showed eth0/1/2 etc
<shauno> really annoying when you add an extra nic to a machine, and it gets numbered 0 so you have to go and clean up all your existing rules
<oimon> shauno: that could still happen if you have 2 pci nics
<oimon> shauno: forget that, it wouldn't
<oimon>  pci<slot>p<port>_<vf>.  is hideous and un-user friendly
<oimon> i'm only concerned in case it works it's way into redhat. however, nearly all of my machines will be virtual by then
<shauno> tempted to go help the missus with mario just so I don't have to keep listening to 'underground' over and over again
<AlanBell> oimon: "eth0" is hideous and un-user friendly
<AlanBell> which is why it just says "wired network" in network manager
<shauno> most device names are ugly; if you ever have to see them, that's the least of your problems
<oimon> i deal with them all day long on servers
<oimon> and regularly do ifdown eth0; if up eth0 ..you wouldn't want to think about what type of card is installed etc.
<oimon> and on a 1 card server, you *always* know that eth0 exists
<oimon> i'm coming from the P.o.V of someone managing a network of 200 machines.
<popey> why would you up/down an interface
<popey> <script>DisplayMessage('Application is only compatible with Internet Explorer 6 or higher versions. Please use Internet Explorer 6 or higher to proceed.');</script></form>
<popey> *sigh*
<oimon> had to do it yesterday on my ubuntu machine. networking was borked after a suspend
<popey> thats not 200 machines
<popey> thats your pc
<popey> we have 200+ machines running SAP and pretty much never down a physical interface
<oimon> alternatively, when troubleshooting network problems and/or setting up dhcp , i run dhclient etc
<popey> we frequently bring up VLANs and such, but we name those
<popey> so they get to be called nice whacky names :)
<oimon> before that, last week, i couldn't get a machine to kickstart because of lack of driver in the pxe kernel so i was playing around with the driver/net card - having uncertainty over network naming doesn't help
<oimon> plus iptables configs...i could go on
<oimon> type eth0 into askubuntu and you'll see it is regularly used on personal machines too - advice would then be conditional on type of interface
<screen-x> oimon: its already dependent on the module, some give interesting names. For example ath5k called my  wifi interface wlan0
<oimon> screen-x: sometimes they appear as ath0 too..yuck
<shauno> well, atleast they seem to have left an option to turn it off.  so just push that to your grub defaults :o)
<gord> http://imgur.com/VJsxA - well. that is something i never thought i would see
<oimon> arnie's looking slim nowadays
<Laney> i'm surprised those bikes don't have chain guards
<screen-x> the ones in cardiff are shaft driven
<oimon> http://hfconservatives.typepad.com/residents_first/2011/03/arnie-rides-boris-bike.html
<oimon> i think they kept shouting closer, to get boris to crash into arnie
<shauno> heh, that's funny.  gord's picture looked almost candid, with very few people in the background
<shauno> the video reveals it as a complete feeding frenzy
<oimon> yeh
<oimon> thumbs up guvnor!
<screen-x> grr firefox is offered as a tar.gz to linux users by default :(
<gord> we just.. we all have to now live in a universe where the terminator rode around on a bike with boris johnson... feels like we are a joke being told by people in another universe
<shauno> atleast until he gets home, to the safety of his hummer
<AlanBell> Laney: they do have quite chunky chain guards
<Laney> partial ones?
<AlanBell> yeah, all round the chainwheel and along the top of the chain
<AlanBell> quite hard to get oil on your suit trousers
<shauno> "This website is not responsible for the stupid comments some users may write."  I'm not sure if that just didn't translate well, or maybe too well, but I think I prefer that over the standard disclaimers :)
<bigcalm> "Our users are stupid"
<shauno> _some_
<shauno> besides, it doesn't call anyone stupid, just that sooner or later, a comment may be stupid
<screen-x> its probably fair to say that all websites have some stupid users
<shauno> I just found it refreshingly honest, since most disclaimers point everything towards ownership (or lack of)
<shauno> http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/gmail-jstrap/   FSF making new friends ;)
<directhex> shauno, the FSF doesn't make friends.
<shauno> :(
<shauno> the 'javascript trap' stuff seems like nonsense :/
<shauno> it's a non-free webservice.  making the client-side JS free doesn't sanitize it
<AlanBell> it does from the RMS point of view
<AlanBell> he is actually fairly OK with non-free code running server side as web services
<AlanBell> he doesn't think you should put your data there, or do your computing on someone elses computer though
<AlanBell> however something that does a transitory communication service does not need to be Free
<shauno> I'm not sure I'd call gmail transitory
<AlanBell> but if there is Javascript running on *your* computer then *you* should have the freedom to use/study/improve/share
<AlanBell> no, gmail isn't particularly transitory, neither is google docs if you leave stuff there
<AlanBell> but putting a doc on google docs in order to collaborate on it with someone else would be OK
<popey> http://www.hercules.com/uk/ecafe/bdd/p/156/ecafe-trade-ex-hd-black-/ impressed that they actually break down their "13 hours battery" into what they did
<popey> the fact that they don't call it Ubuntu, but "Netbook Edition operating system" probably means canonical dont get an OEM cut I guess
<popey> I just had a horrid thought
<popey> My first PC video card was made by Hercules, before the author of http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/hercules-unveils-ecafe-netbook-series-runs-ubuntu-netbook-remix/ was born!
<denny> ...a recruiter just contacted me about a job at Canonical
 * denny tries not to fanboi while replying.
<popey> heh
<denny> I'm quite amused by the long paragraph explaining who Canonical are
<denny> surely if you don't already know, then you're not the right person to be working there
<popey> Good luck! (assuming you go for it)
<denny> I'm very tempted
<denny> although not sure they'll want me, my experience is all tied up in Perl and I don't think they use it
<denny> I do have my own company ticking over atm, but I could be tempted away from that for the right place and the right money
<gord> Canonical - slowly converting #ubuntu-uk into #canonical one user at a time
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> gord: I sent an email trying to tempt a #canonical person into #ubuntu-uk earlier
<shauno> here's some fun.  gnu's dd wants bs=1M, rejects 1m as an invalid number.   bsd's dd wants bs=1m, rejects 1M as an invalid number.  so you can't use the same command on both :(
<KrimZon> I heard when you join canonical they give you a new name
<MartijnVdS> shauno: no
<shauno> no?
<shauno> having fun explaining the difference between MB & MiB.  apache shows a file as being 1M, but wget says it downloaded 977K.  I thought this mess would be sorted out by now :o)
<MartijnVdS> it won't be sorted out I think :(
<BigRedS> no, not enough people care
<HazRPG> crap crap crap crap crap...
 * HazRPG makes sure he's /sort/ of ready for the meeting
<shauno> \o/ my laptop's in poland!
<shauno> I almost want to work for UPS.  this is a pretty epic trip.
<BigRedS> is that where it's supposed to be?
<BigRedS> ah, I suspect not, then :)
<shauno> it was in kazakhstan when I woke up this morning, so it's closer :o)
<BigRedS> ahh, well, that a bonus of sorts
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/ups.jpg   for some reason I didn't expect it to come off the plane between china and the EU
<HazRPG> shauno: \o/
<shauno> hell, I'm not sure I expected that to be a 3-stop flight.  but it was funny to wake up and find my laptop in kazakhstan :o)
<shauno> that is pretty good progress tho.  I'm hoping it'll be here before wednesday, so entering the EU tonight is a plus
<daubers> Evening
<daubers> Meeting at 9 tonight!
<BigRedS> hah
 * BigRedS moves the mug so it stops obscuring the '1' on his clock
<KrimZon> wtf, firefox 4 just popped up some random video from god knows where
<BigRedS> I keep hearing of this sort of thing...
 * BigRedS notes that middle-click-paste-and-go doesn't work in FF3
<BigRedS> maybe it does in FF4 and this is confusing people?
<BigRedS> especially people who, like me, thought it worked in 3.x
<YaManicKill> sdf
<YaManicKill> oops sorry
<ali1234> what is middle click paste and go?
<YaManicKill> wrong window :-P
 * HazRPG pokes AlanBell, popey & BigRedS for advice in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<HazRPG> I'm just making sure I've got everything down
<KrimZon> it wasn't even a url I'd visited or copied to the clipboard
<BigRedS> ali1234: highlight a URL with your mouse, as per normal middle-click-paste
<BigRedS> but paste it into a new tab, in the bit that would be showing the contents of the page
<BigRedS> it used to have the same effect as pasting into the URL bar and hitting enter
<BigRedS> thinking about it, I can't say for sure if I've seen it since Mozilla
<KrimZon> it may or may not have been linked somewhere in what I was browsing, but I definitely didn't have any text selected
<AlanBell> BigRedS: just middle click a URL, it opens in a new tab
<BigRedS> HazRPG: Ah, I'm not generally going to be of much use. I've only seen a couple of these meetings
<BigRedS> AlanBell: possibly, but ff3 does that so I'd have thought ff4 users would be used to that?
<BigRedS> the middle-click paste-and-go is pure speculation on my part, though. I've seen FF4 but not actually used it
<BigRedS> I just suspect that might be the source of all these pages I keep hearing people seeing open for no apparent reason
<KrimZon> I did get annoyed by middle click paste and go, I forget how exactly and I disabled it
<KrimZon> or something like it in 3
<BigRedS> hm, I don't have it in this 3.x
<AlanBell> BigRedS: actually I am not sure what you are on about, I can't middle click paste onto a new tab page
<BigRedS> AlanBell: is that in FF4?
<AlanBell> FF3
<BigRedS> Ah yeah. I'm wondering if FF4 does behave that way, and so people are accidentally doing it, not realising it's a 'feature'
<KrimZon> I've had it with images and videos, so I'm wondering if it's trying to open content that should be inline or is linked in some way
<BigRedS> since Mozilla worked like that but I don't remember if early Firefoxen did.
<BigRedS> Anyway, I've got to wander off for a bit, I'll see if I can be more descriptive on my return, if anyone's still interested :)
<AlanBell> http://www.favbrowser.com/firefox-4-receives-paste-and-go/ this?
<BigRedS> AlanBell: nope
<BigRedS> literally: 1) highlight a URL 2) open a new tab 3) middle click in the page of that tab
<BigRedS> and then you go to that URL
<BigRedS> I'll see if I can find its actual name...
<BigRedS> (when I get back :)  )
 * HazRPG panics a tad lol
<shauno> http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2010/09/paste-go-search-landed-to-firefox-4/
<KrimZon> as far as I can tell, I didn't click anything in the moments before the tab opened
<KrimZon> it could be an evil extension
<KrimZon> except it's not particularly spammy stuff, just content type stuff rather than whole pages
<KrimZon> I'll try not closing tabs, then next time it happens searching the whole source for the url that opens
<jacobw> Copy and paste from FF4 to other GTK applications doesn't work properly
<jacobw> Actually, I'll revise that, copy and paste from the URL bar in FF4 to Pidgin's message composer doesn't work properly
<AlanBell> meeting in 50 minutes in the #ubuntu-uk-meeting channel people
<BigRedS> dammit. Now I've started to miss that Netscape paste behaviour :(
<gord> copy paste from anything to xchat is a giant pain
<gord> xchat likes to put its own stuff in the copy buffer if you click anywhere that isn't the text entry
<BigRedS> I keep doing that with whatever terminal it is I have open at work
<BigRedS> click to move the cursor, and in the process inadvertently copy nothing at all
<BigRedS> s/move the cursor/change focus/
<KrimZon> the worst is right-click paste of multiple lines in a terminal
<zeroXten> any ideas on how to get X to output on a second monitor (vga on webbook).. xorg.conf has to be edited due to device weirdness so autodetect doesn't work
<zeroXten> in fact, not a second monitor as such, but switch X output to the VGA. Currently other ttys are mirrored on both screens
<BigRedS> xrandr?
<BigRedS> I can't remember the precise incantation, but IIRC its man page has enough examples to let you know what it is you want
<zeroXten> huh..
 * zeroXten takes a look, it sounds vaguely familiar
<BigRedS> http://www.manpagez.com/man/1/xrandr/ if you're asking what I think you're asking
<zeroXten> hmm, looks like I only have one output
<zeroXten> aka 'default'
<HazRPG> 15 mins guys and gals :) *points to: #ubuntu-uk-meeting*
<shauno> drumroll?
 * HazRPG presses the BIG RED panic button
<HazRPG> xD
 * BigRedS looks a bit concerned...
<HazRPG> its fine, I have a whole list of lolcats to post :)
<HazRPG> (jokes)
<BigRedS> haha
<Biglesp> evening
<AlanBell> meeting is over in #ubuntu-uk-meeting peeps
<AlanBell> hi Biglesp, all set for u^3?
<Biglesp> AlanBell: oh yes 57 attendees booked in!
<AlanBell> full of win
<AlanBell> Biglesp: take photos
<Biglesp> AlanBell: we've got a flickr group, hash tags, video cameras, the works ;)
<Azelphur> Is there any way to get a twitter RSS feed that doesn't include @Replies?
<jacobw> get it and filter out the @replies?
<popey> evening all
<daubers> popey: #ubuntu-uk-meeting :)
<popey> oh
<Azelphur> haha, I just had a fun little issue with my game server :D
<hamitron> Azelphur: how many "steam staff" you ban?
<Azelphur> hamitron: none :P
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> I wrote an automated donation system, the players go in game and type /donated paypal_txn_id and the server activates extra stuff for them, I register adsense as donations too so they get tracked on the website, with a null transaction ID
<Azelphur> so some guy just dropped by and said "Hey I typed /donated and it announced I donated $120 and gave me premium for the next few years"
<Azelphur> xD
<hamitron> $120?!?!
<Azelphur> yea lol
<Azelphur> from adsense payout xD
<hamitron> what was he suposed to donate?
<hamitron> ah
<hamitron> how?
<Azelphur> he claimed an adsense payout as his own donation by accident basically
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> because the transaction id on an adsense payout is null
<Azelphur> and he just typed /donated without a code xD
<CyberJacob> do the team meeting logs go to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/03/31/
<Azelphur> hamitron: patched it and gave him 3 months free for reporting the issue lol
<hamitron> nice
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> funny little issue to come up, though :P
<hamitron> reporting bugs for freebies is probably a good way of making players "accept" bugs
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<CyberJacob> !logs
<lubotu3> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<popey> AlanBell: http://www.noob.us/entertainment/i-bet-you-didnt-know-this-about-chickens/
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7snWiHvpwc
<AlanBell> meeting over, anyone want to set up mumble and join in?
<an0key> Meeting over, was it not due to start at 22:00?
<popey> hullo an0key
<AlanBell> an0key: no, they start at 21:00
<AlanBell> an0key: never mind, there will be minutes
<an0key> "21:00 UTC (21:00 GMT)" = 22:00 BST
<AlanBell> bother, you are right
<popey> where does it say that?
<an0key> oh well, I'll pop along for the next one then.
<suprengr> UTC = Ubuntu-uk time zone ;)
<an0key> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
<BigRedS> what was the mumble address?
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 14th April 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz: 16th April 21:00 | We're jammin' http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/globaljam2011
<zleap> hmm
<suprengr> UTC = Ubuntu-UK Time Controlled ;)
<zleap> no idea what happened there
<AlanBell>  Meeting 14th April 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting
 * suprengr bows to the great time controller aka AlanBell 
<zleap> :)
 * AlanBell steps back into the Tardis
 * an0key goes back to revision =[ 
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jamie Bennett] Linaro 11.05 Beta Ubuntu images available - http://www.linuxuk.org/2011/03/linaro-11-05-beta-ubuntu-images-available/
<zleap> cool
<phonex01> guys i need help
<hamitron> what with?
<phonex01> im using HSPA+ internet service on my ubuntu machine
<phonex01> and im using virtualbox
 * brobostigon-g1 screams and shouts athe top of his voice
<phonex01> my virtual machine can only bridge eth or wlan but not HSPA connection
<hamitron> good one brobostigon-g1 ;/
<phonex01> so how can i use internet on my virtual machine ?
<hamitron> you sure it can't "share" the same ip as the host OS?
<brobostigon-g1> hamiron :'(
<hamitron> :D
<brobostigon-g1> hmm
<shauno> is bridging the only method available?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-01
<hamitron> phonex01: if you can't, you can have a virtual network, so then have a virtual adapter on the host, then configure like a basic NAT router
<hamitron> but I think I have seen this come up before, and it can be done
<phonex01> man the virtual machine can not deal with the HSPA service  !
<phonex01> it is broadband connection
<HazRPG> shauno: bridging?
<hamitron> http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch06.html#networkingmodes
<hamitron> I would personally use the built-in NAT mode
<shauno> ditto
<HazRPG> I usually use bridging... but I have read the scroll-back
<shauno> bridging gives it a second IP on the same network as the host.  HSPA isn't going to give you more than one IP on the isp's network.
<HazRPG> ah, good point
<hamitron> shauno: in vmware you can "bridge" on the same IP, not sure about virtualbox
<shauno> the NAT mode will use the host OS as a router for the guest
<hamitron> but NAT is cleaner imho
<HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: you alright dude?
<brobostigon-g1> HazRPG: not really, no.
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> brobostigon-g1: wazzzzzup?
<HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: yeah dude, what's up?
<brobostigon-g1> HazRPG: you really want to know?
<HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: only if your up for telling I guess.
<HazRPG> brb bathroom break
 * brobostigon-g1 screams and shouts and curses at the top of his voice,
<hamitron> :(
<brobostigon-g1> That is all. Endof;
<brobostigon-g1> Sorry
<hamitron> my thin client should arrive tomorrow
<hamitron> :)
<popey> gord: just fyi, Rubbish Bin still says "empty trash"
 * popey goes to bed
<brobostigon-g1> :)
<hamitron> laters pops
<HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: sure ok.
<HazRPG> back btw :)
<brobostigon-g1> HazRPG: sorry I missed you're meeting hosting.
<HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: its fine dude, can always check out the minutes :).
<brobostigon-g1> HazRPG: nothing like being there live.
<brobostigon-g1> Umm,
<brobostigon-g1> Can I go cry now please.
<hamitron> :(
<phonex01> yes you can !
<phonex01> but why yuo want to do that ?
<phonex01> is it that urgent ?
<brobostigon-g1> Thank you
 * brobostigon-g1 goes and cries in the corner
<phonex01> i mean you have to cry or you can delay it
<brobostigon-g1> No,
<phonex01> ok dont cry today
<brobostigon-g1> Why not?
<brobostigon-g1> Today like any other day sucks.
<brobostigon-g1> So I give up.
<phonex01> ok then cry  !
<phonex01> you know something
<hamitron> don't give up damn it
<hamitron> :/
<phonex01> if you think you are suffering you are wrong
 * brobostigon-g1 goes bang his head on some hard surface.
<brobostigon-g1> I don't want to sware.
<hamitron> pops has gone to bed.... but i hear he keeps 1 eye open all night
<directhex> phonex01, you can't bridge devices you can't shift into the required mode. in the case of wwan connections, you can't just bridge your VM's MAC and expect your HSPDA provider to issue you an IP, since that kinda breaks their business model
<directhex> phonex01, short version: use NAT
<HazRPG> Woop! My post IS on the planet ubuntu-uk \o/
<HazRPG> 2nd one down!
<HazRPG> check it!
<brobostigon-g1> HazRPG: yay
<HazRPG> also, sporting my big-hair-couldn't-give-to-cut-it-picture :D
<phonex01> ok thank you
<phonex01> hi HazRPG
<phonex01> nice to meet you
<HazRPG> phonex01: howdy dude :)
<phonex01> hi im hit
<dutchie> HazRPG: ew, truncated articles in feeds
<phonex01> i was protesting and i got two stones again
 * brobostigon-g1 goes to beat up his bedroom and go to sleep.
<phonex01> man have you ever seen police use stones !!!
<shauno> hah, have fun making hackergotchi out of that hair
<brobostigon-g1> Fuey
<brobostigon-g1> No, let me go play quake.
<hamitron> the orig?
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon-g1> Don't matter,
<brobostigon-g1> I want to go kill something.
<brobostigon-g1> :)
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I've never found killing stuff in games helps
<HazRPG> kill a stone :)
<hamitron> I like to drive in some racing game
<shauno> it makes the game much easier :o)
 * brobostigon-g1 goes and cries somemore
<HazRPG> that way, it dies... and well its fine, cos its not really alive
<HazRPG> as a thing
<HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: *hugs* it'll be fine dude
 * brobostigon-g1 hugs HazRPG back
 * brobostigon-g1 cries
<hamitron> can you put a project on launchpad with some closed source stuff?
<brobostigon-g1> Open stuff, I have.
<brobostigon-g1> Good night, I eont burdon you chaps andgals with my mind anymore.
<shauno> night bob.  tc.
<brobostigon-g1> Night shauno
<hamitron> think I should get a coffee, build another comp, then get to bed I think
 * hamitron sighs
<shauno> did the new one arrive yet?
<hamitron> the thin client?
<hamitron> no, should be here tomorrow
<hamitron> got an email from shit it express earlier
<hamitron> and excited \o/
<shauno> well, let's hope yours doesn't go via kazakhstan :/
<hamitron> hmmm?
<shauno> waiting for a new laptop.  it make a stop in kazakhstan this morning.  was rather surprised, myself
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/ups.jpg
<hamitron> oh dear
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> my cable from china has been 27 days now
<hamitron> but the seller has shipped me another now
<shauno> it's currently in germany, and telling me it'll take 4 days.  it took 1 day to do asia, the scenic route.  and now it's going to take 4 to do germany to ireland?
<hamitron> he claims he sent one before anyway
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I'm always scared of import duties
<shauno> intl shipping is always weird.
<hamitron> never bought anything big
<shauno> I bought something off ebay, from the UK, while I was living in the US
<shauno> it hadn't shown up by time paypal's dispute window was closing, so I told him I was filing a dispute because it was "now or never".
<penguin42> international shipping can be awesome if you pay a lot of money and shout 'I need it tomorrow - really, PLEEEEEASE'
<hamitron> hehe
<shauno> it eventually showed up nearly 2 months later  (this was a jiffy bag sized package, not something daft).  so I paid him again 'n felt like a git
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, typical
<shauno> no-one ripped anyone off, but paypal only give you so long (28 days I think?) after a transaction to dispute it.  which is rather counter-productive when shipping goes awry
<HazRPG> I agree
<penguin42> shauno: You leave that as the vendors problem
<hamitron> I'll just leave negative feedback with this, was only Â£250
<hamitron> Â£2.50
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> also, why is test-ipvt6.com reckon I only got 9/10 for IPv6 stability and readiness...
<HazRPG> ahhh
<HazRPG> ISP DNS = no IPv6...
<shauno> he.net have a dns server you can use too
<hamitron> brb
<HazRPG> ooo really?
<shauno> it's on the details page for your tunnel, anycast dns server.  it'll have two addresses, one v6 & one v4
<shauno> I just use the v6 one, and let v4 queries go the normal route
<HazRPG> win
<shauno> (you should still get AAAA records from your normal dns server, but tests will mark you down for not having a "all-v6" readiness)
<shauno> if you don't get AAAA records from your normal server, mail your isp old fish, and use google's :)
<shauno> I use google's anyway, because my isp have started serving up "search pages" instead of NXDOMAIN, which I find rather evil
<hamitron> the internet is full of evil
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> indeed
<shauno> I really wish they'd learn that the more obtrusive their adverts are, the more I'll go out of my way to remove them
<shauno> (eg, if you give me a fullscreen ad "while this page loads", I hit back. and growl.  and make a mental note that this site isn't viable anymore)
<hamitron> growl, haha
<shauno> doesn't everyone growl when they put adverts on top of content?
<hamitron> yeh, I guess
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> those really bug me.  expanding thumbnails into modal floating blobs was bad enough
<shauno> now you go onto sites and they pop up a floating layer trying to get you to sign up for their newsleter.  or do a questionaire.  or some other random gaff that I didn't read because I was too busy hitting Back
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] I am Jef Spaleta - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/01/i-am-jef-spaleta/
<matti> ;]
<hamitron> right
<hamitron> sleep ;D
<hamitron> nn o/
<shauno> ooh .. minecraft 1.4 is out.  \o/ wolves!
<Azelphur> shauno: my server is up on 1.4 :P
<shauno> ditto.  already killed my first pet :/
<Azelphur> lol
<shauno> apparently I need to rethink my use of lava
<Azelphur> shauno: fun fact, if pvp is off (server side) you can still use wolfs to kill people \o/
<shauno> yeah, I read that already
<shauno> I'll find it a sec, because it was funny :)
<Azelphur> shauno: I was "testing" it with one of my other staff :P
<Azelphur> aka spawn camping him while he screamed "NOOOOOOOO" on mumble
<Azelphur> xD
<shauno> > yes, my ten year old died this morning when her friend accidentally hit her in front of her wolf on a peaceful server this morning.
<Azelphur> haha
<shauno> also,
<shauno> > I tame my first wolf and loudly proclaim to my server: "I AM THE FIRST TO TAME A WOLF!" Then my "friend" who is a mod teleports to me. Kills my wolf and teleports home.
<Azelphur> \o/
<shauno> in other news, they won't attack trees :(
<Azelphur> I got a fleet of 10 wolfs and terrorized people :D
<shauno> this is interesting
<shauno> >  I also found out that if you get hit with your own arrow, you get attacked by all your wolves.
<Azelphur> xD
<shauno> I'm not sure how one goes about shooting themselves, but apparently the wolves are willing to help
<shauno> one I found myself is that the difference between left & right click actually matters.  if you hit a wolf with a bone, he'll hit you back
<Azelphur> lol
<shauno> introduced 2 friends to minecraft this evening
<shauno> one, I gave a sword, and he announced he was going for a walk.  came back dead.
<shauno> the other apparently hasn't played many first-person games, and spends a lot of time stood in one place staring at the floor
<Azelphur> shauno: haha
<shauno> had to teach her w/asd .. not sure how to teach her mouselook
<Azelphur> how old is she? XD
<shauno> heh
<shauno> I've never asked, but I'd have to guess closer 40 than 30
<Azelphur> surely you can just say "Move the mouse" and it's obvious? XD
<shauno> apparently not :)
<shauno> it was a good chuckle, but a bit bizarre at times.  "why's my screen flashing?"  "you're on fire."  "oh."
<shauno> can't wait for new laptop tho.  this one's struggling running client & server together
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> shauno: I have a public dedi server :)
<shauno> yeah, you showed me :)
<shauno> I think this one'll be fine once my laptop shows up, I can bump the stack size & leave it to it
<shauno> also, they didn't fix soil halos :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> if you build a ring of dirt above where a tree is going to grow, it resets what height it thinks it is once it reaches the dirt
<shauno> soil on 4 sides = ground level, so it starts again
<shauno> so build a few rings in midair, plant tree, feed it bones, and insta-mammoth-tree
<shauno> keep meaning to play with the spacing & figure out what the best way to make a multi-tier farm that way is
<Azelphur> shauno: awesome haha I have to try that
<shauno> they're not the prettiest trees if you leave chunks of dirt in them :/  but I've a feeling it'll be great for farms
<shauno> I seem to do most my farming underground now.  I have a cute little farmhouse in the middle of nowhere, with tiers of pig & wheat farms underneath it
<Azelphur> shauno: I'm trying to do that tree thing but not getting anywhere
<shauno> hm, gimme a minute
<shauno> heh, it worked with the last one I tried.  now I'm getting even stranger results
<shauno> I've just grown a large chunk of invincible foilage.  it just grows back
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> shauno: care to show me on my server? :P
<shauno> seems to work with 3 spaces between the ground & the soil
<shauno> with two I just got a boring tree.
<Azelphur> o.O
<shauno> hm, I just got the buggy version instead again
<shauno> it seems to freak out if I spam-click bones.  if I'm gentle, I get megatree.  if I spamclick, I get trunkless tree
<shauno> (tree grows, but sapling stays where it is.  then trunk disappears)
<Azelphur> :P
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2011-04-01_04.35.13.png
<shauno> that I just 'built' .. video is uploading (but slower  heh)
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/tree.mov
<shauno> vanilla server btw, not bukkit.  no idea how much difference that makes
<Azelphur> shauno: eww apple :P
<shauno> but that's how I build the soil rings.  took 3 attempts to grow the tree before the sapling despawned tho
<shauno> heh, yes apple.  gave up using linux on the desktop 5-6 years ago.  guess how long it's been since I last compiled my video driver because a random kernel update left me staring at gdm's freakout screen :p
<Azelphur> probably about the same time as me :D
<shauno> I keep hitting minor gripes with differences in bsd vs gnu userlands.  that can be fun.  otherwise I'm quite happy with it :)
<Azelphur> :p
<shauno> trunkless tree is well weird.  it's mostly fire resistant
<shauno> and seems to stick around.  it acts like lag, but doesn't get over it
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> grew nicely the third time I planted it tho :)
<shauno> tempted to try a third ring, and put walls between the second & third.  see if you can grow an instant treehouse.
<shauno> but not tonight.  just noticed it's dangerously close to being this morning, and I work saturday, so I can't break my sleep pattern again :)
<HazRPG> anyone know why a User Agent would ever show up as being blank? Because surely all browsers should at least have one (and search engines)
 * HazRPG is checking stats of his site
<HazRPG> hmm...
<HazRPG> apparently ping6 and ip aren't showing up as bash commands on this high-light text thing for <pre> tags
<HazRPG> how rather odd :/
<HazRPG> also, what sort of highlight scheme would conf files technically be under?
<HazRPG> or is there no defacto standard on that?
<AlanBell> http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/comments.shtml/366/ sound like a nice pub?
<AlanBell> have a look on Google maps along the thames near millbank :)
<HazRPG> ooo
<HazRPG> T_T this code hi-lite is being a pain... thought I'd test it out on the IPv6 post I've got, but well if its only going to hi-lite half, there's no point
<danfish> AlanBell: admittedly not universal praise :( but by central London pub standards.....
<danfish> right, time to take kids to nursery
<MartijnVdS> http://www.krenn.nl/aprilfools/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: is the ipv6 article popular? :)
<HazRPG> I'm not sure...
<HazRPG> as a thing... StatPress tells me "Visitors this month (Apr, 2011): 20"
<HazRPG> not inc crawlers...
<MartijnVdS> 20 inch visitors?
<HazRPG> xD
<MartijnVdS> are you on planet?
<HazRPG> I am now \o/
<MartijnVdS> \o/
 * AlanBell wonders what planet the 20" visitors are from
<AlanBell> we come in peace
<HazRPG> :P
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: maybe it's more an "adult entertainment actor" thing
<HazRPG> Well, all visitors so far have either been from: WinXP, WinNT 4, a few "blank" O/S's, and 3 Linux users (one ubuntu)
<MartijnVdS> "The 20" visitor" sounds like a title in that genre
<HazRPG> so I wouldn't be surprised if most of these hits are just usual spam dudes
<MartijnVdS> I looked at the page
<AlanBell> shall we all guess what country MartijnVdS is in :)
<MartijnVdS> so that would be the Ubuntu one :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: We use centimeters here ;)
<HazRPG> xD
 * HazRPG can never understand these stats properly
<HazRPG> This is why as a thing I usually make my own stats generator
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: have you tried google analytics
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: erm... Google Webtools?
<HazRPG> Got my site on that
<AlanBell> popey: do you fully understand the risks you are taking? http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/collections/p006rg17
<AlanBell> is there a sound recording app in the default Ubuntu?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: yup
<HazRPG> AlanBell: app->sound & video->sound recorder
<HazRPG> AlanBell: or gnome-sound-recorder in term
 * HazRPG trying to work out where to place this file in wordpress
<HazRPG> pretty new to the whole wordpress stuff really
<AlanBell> thanks HazRPG
<HazRPG> phpBB I've coded WAY too much stuff for that, never really done much for WP
<HazRPG> AlanBell: no problem :)
<AlanBell> I always use Audacity, but I have an idea for an interesting project that involves lots of people
<HazRPG> see I know things :D
<HazRPG> See I use Audacity too, really love it
<HazRPG> but sometimes you just want to record some plain files quickly with a simple interface
<popey> morning
<diplo> morning
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MartijnVdS> http://www.usedbandwidth.com/
<HazRPG> AlanBell: apparently my email to the mailing list was rejected (for the meeting stuff)
<HazRPG> I'll try and forward that through again, and see what happens
<AlanBell> just got it
<MooDoo> hello
<gord> hrm, i have been suspicious about that jono guy for years, confirmed.
<MartijnVdS> gord: hm?
<gord> MartijnVdS, go read his blog :P
<AlanBell> right, I wonder if my car will make it as far as the garage
<AlanBell> czajkowski: first time I have moved it since the plugfest!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: eh?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
<AlanBell> czajkowski: my car
<AlanBell> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell 's car is borked
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell - will it start?
 * AlanBell grabs phone and puts on best pushing boots
<AlanBell> I think it will start
<Tommeh> "The Ubuntu team is pleased to announce the release of Ubuntu 11.04 beta"
<Tommeh> \o/
<Tommeh> Upgrade day!
<MooDoo> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - release the Beta on April Fool's day... Careful, there be dragons ahead.
<czajkowski> AlanBell: context is a wonderful thing :)
 * czajkowski was rather lost in farnham last night 
<bigcalm> Morning kids
 * oimon hopes sabdfl's comment on bug 739812 is an april fool :(
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 739812 in unity "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739812
<bigcalm> Today is stupids day :(
<willy_1977> take the p*** day...
<czajkowski> http://bit.ly/fR7hIZ  :D
<oimon> i would prefer if all dumb articles are removed after lunchtime april 1st. then i can continue reading the interenet, but when you read the article a week late...
<daubers> Morning
<willy_1977> morning
<willy_1977> czajkowski: :) I like that.
<oimon> czajkowski: have you seen it in 3D? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/267551063.jpg
<czajkowski> oimon: oh nice I tend not to read omgubuntu
<b1ackcr0w> Hello all!
 * b1ackcr0w doing a little light bug hunting in natty beta
<b1ackcr0w> I think I've found one but would like a bit of help filing the bug
<b1ackcr0w> specifically, where to file it
<BigRedS> what is it?
<gord> oh-hum i guess its april fools day. *looks around for co-workers to prank*
<gord> i guess i'll pranky my cat
<oimon> heheh http://xkcd.com/880/
<b1ackcr0w> Basically - you can't maximise an app window in unity using a desktop touchscreen
<b1ackcr0w> I've made a screencast
<b1ackcr0w> to demonstrate the problem
 * b1ackcr0w has yet to go to thinkgeek.com to see their Fools day prank
<gord> b1ackcr0w, you haven't tried pressing the maximise button?
<gord> or double tapping the window titlebar
<b1ackcr0w> you're supposed to be able to do it with a gesture
<gord> ah. new multi-touch gesture stuff is landing next release so maybe wait for that to be built and test with that before filing a bug
<b1ackcr0w> but your finger runs into the screen bezel stopping the maximize
<b1ackcr0w> gord: is that beta 2?
<gord> b1ackcr0w, should be building today
<gord> we just couldn't release it until late yesterday because the archives didn't open until beta 1 was released
<b1ackcr0w> gord: cool, I have to have version upgrades on to get that from update manager right?
<gord> b1ackcr0w, eh nope. if your running natty you'll get it regardless
<b1ackcr0w> gord: top banana - thanks for the heads up
<b1ackcr0w> FWIW - I'm pleasantly surprised by beta 1 - it's the best linux touchscreen implementation i've seen yet
<gord> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xdg/xdg-specs/commit/?id=b6381cb31953070ba7b641bb6fbdb16758bd8356 :)
<b1ackcr0w> btw - is there another package I have to install to get multitouch gestures to work? My system only seems to like single touch ATM
<MartijnVdS> http://www.chromercise.com/
<gord> not sure, backend mt is handled by a different team
<b1ackcr0w> i think it might be utouch - i'll do some mooching
<bigcalm> Cor, today's XKCD is something special
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://www.debian.org/
<kazade> TheOpenSourcerer, that's actually pretty cool, I love that they've linked all those other distros along the top :)
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: the best bit is they excluded fedora :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: And Ubuntu.
<oimon> i don't see ubuntu without also thinking debian, and vice versa
<b1ackcr0w> you have to love XKCD - that is pretty cool
<phonex01> how can i recored my desktop ?
<phonex01> video recored
<b1ackcr0w> i think i've found thinkgeek's april fool
<b1ackcr0w> http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/looflirpa/e8bb/?pfm=Carousel_20110401_Apple_Store_2
<TheOpenSourcerer> !info recordmydesktop
<lubotu3> recordmydesktop (source: recordmydesktop): Captures audio-video data of a Linux desktop session. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3.8.1+svn602-1ubuntu3 (maverick), package size 54 kB, installed size 148 kB
<b1ackcr0w> warming up Banshee with Joe Cocker's cover of "Feelin' Alright" - good times :)
<b1ackcr0w> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001JQQCUG/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk2
<b1ackcr0w> no better way to invest 98p
<JamesTait> Guten Morgen! :D
<b1ackcr0w> lo
<kazade> http://www.youtube.com/user/Google#p/a/u/0/blB_X38YSxQ
<kazade> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu927_ul_X0&feature=player_embedded
<kazade> :)
<kazade> actually, this is a better link: http://mail.google.com/mail/help/motion.html
<AlanBell> the car got there
<bigcalm> Search for Helvetica on Google
<AlanBell> heh
<kazade> bigcalm, nice :)
<bigcalm> Via my boss
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<brobostigon> http://mail.google.com/mail/help/motion.html
<brobostigon> i get the feeling this is a april fools.
<Mez> orly?
<brobostigon> Mez: have you tried it?
<Laney> it's not, i used it
<brobostigon> ok, interesting then.
<Mez> brobostigon - yeah - I just can't get used to the gestures though... It's like BSL - but not... it'll take a while to learn.
<brobostigon> Mez: agreed. yes.
<Mez> Lucky they're not turning off the keyboard/mouse combinatin to access it for a couple of months.
<Mez> http://www.google.com/intl/en/jobs/uslocations/mountain-view/autocompleter/index.html <-- should I apply?
<DJones> Mez: Should forward that to the mailing list
<Mez> DJones: nah, it's Mountain View...
<Mez> not really relevant to the UK
<brobostigon> something doesnt fit with that job description.
<Myrtti> http://google.com/romance <3
<MartijnVdS> http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/04/01/spotify-announces-us-launch-closing-european-service-to-fund-it/
<AlanBell> "Post multiple profiles with
<AlanBell> a bulk upload file, you sleaze"
 * oimon ignores the internet for the reset of the day
<oimon> trying out elementary Os on my eee ..working quite nippy on the old dog
<BigRedS> well, untill midday
<BigRedS> ah, midday UTC+12, which is the rest of the day
<oimon> doesn't look like i'll be able to use ubuntu on my eee after natty :(
<brobostigon> oimon: why?
<oimon> brobostigon: cos of what MarkS said : ubuntu classic won't be in natty+1
<BigRedS> someone's bound to package gnome for it
<oimon> unity doesn't work on my 800x480 screen
<BigRedS> pre-gnome-shell-gnome
<brobostigon> oimon: i am using gnome3 here, i dont perticulerly like unity myself, gnome-shell should work fairly well onthat kind of small screen.
<Myrtti> xfce â¥
<oimon> i tried gnomeshell - seems rather...lacking. will try again when they finish, but i don't think i will like it. is it true or april fool that they are delaying another 6 mo's for gnome3?
<brobostigon> oimon: it should be release and of this month, ui freeze has already gone, so only bug fixes untill release.
<brobostigon> end of*
<BigRedS> Myrtti: I keep thinking about trying xfce out again. I hear it's much better now than it used to be
<screen-x> good morning :)
<screen-x> it seems that google body browser now has a male, and a cow.
<oimon> not the most flattering screenshots of xfce though http://www.xfce.org/images/about/screenshots/4.8-1.png
<slackthumbz> oimon: probably april fools, they've been in code freeze for a couple of weeks now and previously stated there'd be a 3.0.0 stable code release in early april/
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: seems like EVERY google project has its own April Fools bit :)
<oimon> yeah, website says 5 days
<Myrtti> hm. -25% off of Fon2.0n
<Laney> hope you have all remembered mothers day!
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Card posted yesterday
<bigcalm> Bloody card company holiday
<davmor2> sweet Jesus there is a pink unicorn as the freenode message of the day
<czajkowski> :D
<Laney> that is pretty
<bigcalm> Yes, I thought it cute
<bigcalm> There are some very clever people out there who master the art of ascii art
<davmor2> lads it's pink and a unicorn those are two things you shouldn't admit to being pretty or cute :D
<directhex> :( @ adsl
 * davmor2 blames czajkowski for the horrific unicorn and prods her
 * Laney can see the exchange from the kitchen window
 * Laney therefore â¥ adsl
 * kazade is attempting to build an ISO of Ubuntu + Gnome 3 :)
<s-fox> Hello.
<czajkowski> davmor2: behave!
<davmor2> czajkowski: it's the kinda evil that you'd do though ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: http://www.comics.chickennation.com/archive/worst-unicorn/ # no safe for sane mindes
<davmor2> bigcalm: safe for me then my minds never sane
<bigcalm> My appologies to everybody else who followed that link
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'd think you would apologise too
 * screen-x now has a slightly altered view of unicorns
<bigcalm> Ah, I was close enough
<Myrtti> http://www.fimm.fi/en/scientific_highlights/moomin_genome_explains_creature-s_peculiar_features-holds_clues_to_evolution_of_fable_characters/
<bigcalm> Myrtti: heh
<bigcalm> I just like the idea of a Finnish Institute of Moomin Medicine
<davmor2> bigcalm: for a decent depiction of a unicorn you really need to see http://is.gd/uMcZgS
<AlanBell>  /kick davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: 2007 called, they want their 1987 music video back
<bigcalm> And I quite like that track...
<davmor2> AlanBell: I couldn't resist sorry :D
<daubers> bigcalm: DID YOU WARN THEM ABOUT JAPAN!?!?!?!?!
<bigcalm> :D
<BigRedS> :)
<bigcalm> Yes, we all <3 xkcd
<screen-x> talking of which, xkcd seems to be in an odd semi 3d world today
<bigcalm> Indeed
<daubers> urgh... caffeine withdrawl sucks
<bigcalm> Have a cuppa tea
<daubers> and todays xkcd doesn't help
<dwatkins> hehe, I like it, screen-x
<BigRedS> daubers: stick with it, then when you have actual caffeinated coffee, it really works
<oimon> screen-x: hey i didn't notice that cos i read it via RSS
 * daubers orders one of http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/looflirpa/e8bf/?pfm=Carousel_20110401_Nether_Portal_5 to stick his brain into
<dwatkins> you'd probably have to cut it up first, sadly
<screen-x> daubers: does that have some sort of shredder for absorbing paper?
<bigcalm> screen-x: watch the video
<screen-x> bigcalm: I did, but it doesn't actually send reports to the nether ;-)
<bigcalm> Sure it does, the internet doesn't lie!
<czajkowski> I seem to have broken the work latop again
<screen-x> czajkowski: <irish accent>have you tried turning it off and turning it on again?</irish accent>
<czajkowski> screen-x: it wont turn on after I turn it off
<daubers> czajkowski: So how do you then turn it off again if it's not on?
 * daubers files a bug report
<daubers> "Cannot turn power off if laptop is not no"
<daubers> s/no/on
<phonex01> hi guys is there any tool can be used as wifi spy chanalyzer on ubuntu ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'll hold daubers you hit him :D
<dwatkins> What's that, ph<tab> oh.... left the channel
<oimon> lol..
<oimon> i think there are better rooms to ask questions that he/she asks
<czajkowski> Good god I HATE_DRUPAL!
<dwatkins> oimon: or places where the answer won't just be "don't ask for things like that, it smacks of black-hat-ery"
<bigcalm> E_DRUPAL
 * bigcalm sniggers
<dwatkins> ERROR_SUCCESS
<s-fox> Nice error message
<oimon> is starvin' like marvin
<MooDoo> oimon: +1
<oimon> not sure whether to get fish+chips even though i'm having curry oinght
<bigcalm> oimon: what does your tummy say?
<oimon> bigcalm: i've learned not to trust my tummy
<oimon> sometimes he lies
<oimon> and changes his mind
<gord> huh, if i put an sd card in my printer, it mounts in ubuntu. i love modern technology
<MartijnVdS> so your printer is a cardreader.. woo :)
<langus> nick llewangus
<langus> nic llewangus
<gord> i only put an sd card in it because i had an sd card i knew i was going to lose and saw an empty slot ;)
<MartijnVdS> langus: forgot a / in front of that
<langus> Sorry
<MartijnVdS> langus: /nick foobar
<langus> Hi everyone
<screen-x> \o langus
<llewangus> There we go who was that wierdo langus huh ;-)
<llewangus> I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction - I'm not sure what I did but when I try scrol through menues like the application menu it does not always open the next menu and I have to double click - I have tried loads of search terms - but I don't know what I am actually asking.... Any help would be very gratfully recieved.
<Mez> gord: you see something not in a slot so put it in a slot regularly ? :P
<gord> Mez, it was either that or leave the sd card all alone on my desk for a few days until it magically vanishes never to be found again!
<kvarley> Anybody here use glc-capture? I can't get it to work with enemy territory wolfenstein
<MartijnVdS> what is it
<Mez> gord: never mind, there was a joke in there somewhere :D
<gord> i'm sure archaeologists in years to come will unearth it
<kvarley> "ERROR: ld.so: object 'libglc-hook.so.0' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored."
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: libglc-hook.so.0 doesn't exist, or is of the wrong architecture, I guess
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Hmmm bizarre
<Myrtti> czajkowski: count your blessings with Drupal tho
<Myrtti> czajkowski: you ain't seen hell before you've tried something built on Java, such as Liferay.
<Myrtti> *shudder*
<AlanBell> bother, I think I am going to have to scrap my car
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: why?
<AlanBell> garage doesn't want to MOT it because it will go bang on the emissions test
<AlanBell> they are looking up the price of a new engine
<gord> really hope this 1911 filter on youtube is going to stay forever. eating my lunch time sammich is much improved
<seeker> Cut some holes in the floor. Flintstonetastic.
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Its something specific to this game because it works for sauerbraten and other games so the library is there
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: the game could be 32-bit on a 64-bit system
<MartijnVdS> if the library is 64-bit, it won't work
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ohhhhhhh, interesting. Yes I imagine sauerbraten is 64 bit and so is the library. However, this game is 32 bit :/ hhhmmm
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Would putting the 32 bit library there instead of the current one work?
<DJones> AlanBell: What is so seriously wrong that it needs a new engine
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: I think so.. as long as all the 32-bit libraries that the library depends on are available
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: why are you LD_PRELOADing anyway?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: It's a capture program for games so it needs to be loaded first I think. I just realised that I should have symlinked the libraries on install...DOH
<AlanBell> DJones: it lost some power and is making a bad knocking sound
<davmor2> did it go tick tick tick boom
<DJones> AlanBell: Ouch, sounds like blown piston/valve
<MartijnVdS> could just be a bad spark plug
<njpatel> davmor2, ping, is this still an issue for you? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/728393
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 728393 in unity (Ubuntu) "Missing icons in app launcher" [High,Triaged]
<davmor2> njpatel: not as such no however I think there maybe a new issue related.  open the apps lens and drag an icon into the launcher (I did solitare) for me I just had a blank space with a a black arrow reading label to the right of it
<njpatel> Dave2, right, could you drop the icon into that space? or do you mean after dropping it was still black?
<davmor2> njpatel: after dropping the icon into the space I'll reproduce asap and bug it just short of time at the minut
<njpatel> sweet, thanks. I'll close the other one and please re-open if it comes back
<njpatel> (DND bug seems different)
<davmor2> njpatel: no worries
<njpatel> davmor2, actuall, unity 3.8.2 is just building, could you check if it still happens with that (DND bug) before opening?
<njpatel> I made some tweaks and hopefully it's fixed
<davmor2> njpatel: when does it hit the install tomorrow?
<njpatel> it should be available in a few hours
<davmor2> njpatel: okay cool give me a ping when it's ready and I'll give it a blast for you
<njpatel> awesome, thanks!
 * brobostigon plays morewith mumble to get it setup right for tmrw.
<penguin42> brobostigon: My experience with it is that the important thing is to entirely ignore the bar graphs and stuff in the wizard and just try to talk to someone
<brobostigon> penguin42: i am trying everything, thank you for the pointers.
<matti> ;]
<brobostigon> good afternoon matti
<matti> Hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey matti
<HazRPG> daubers: Just posted on the Cumbrian LUG mailing list about the Sci-Fi exhibit, let me know when you've started a doodle, or any other news and I'll keep them posted :). I might also forward the discussions on the Ubuntu-UK mailing list to... what do you think? Or have you already posted something?
<brobostigon> good afternoon HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good afternoonings :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: noticed ya logged in a few times onto mumble, I wasn't around at the time
<brobostigon> HazRPG: sorry about last  night, i was feeling in a really bad way.
<oimon> wow found an A4 note in my pigeon hole someone had actually written rather than typed. must have taken ages. my hand gets worn out now writing any more than a postit note
<brobostigon> HazRPG: on your server, yes.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: don't be dude, its fine... we all have our moments from time to time :).
<HazRPG> oimon: I can agree with that one!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: thank you for understanding.
<HazRPG> oimon: Ya can always tell how angry someone is, if they've had to write it out by hand!
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> Right... I think its food time! I'm STARVING!
<HazRPG> *belly grumbles at me*
<HazRPG> catch ya all in a bit :)
<brobostigon> good plan, :)
<brobostigon> bye HazRPG :)
<oimon> arggh what's the last date for deposit into ISAs?
<oimon> 4 april?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: speak later :)
<brobostigon> not a clue.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: speak later, :)
<hamitron> new toy is ace
<hamitron> :)
<oimon> spotted an april fool on launchpad : bug 747014
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 747014 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "Major Natty regression: No fish!" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747014
<oimon> anyone running natty care to confirm a bug for me?
<brobostigon> oimon: what is the bug?
<oimon> setup 2 users on the machine e.g. local and local2. login to unity session with local2. then ssh to the box as local user. attempt to restart system as local2 user, and the machine fails to boot, only logs you out
<brobostigon> that will take some setting up, i dont have two users setup,
 * BigRedS stumbles across the caterbury distribution
<oimon> BigRedS: i like the name - very english feel
<gord> thats it, for the thousand time someone has posted "In a life without walls and fences, who needs Windows and Gates? !linux" - on identica. i'm unsubscribing from the !linux group
<hamitron> :)
<oimon> gord: isn't that based off a windows slogan?
<oimon> WindowsÂ®. Life without Wallsâ¢. Acer recommends Windows 7.
<gord> i don't know, i don't care, its lame and people need to stop saying it as if its some awesome new profound statement that surely no one else has heard before
<directhex> gord++
<gord> its especially stupid as we all use walls and fences, they are awesome, keeps my house up
<oimon> somebody actually had something like that as their sugnature on a office email at work. i was not impressed
<oimon> i got that acer quote off the page for their linux aspire revo :)
<davmor2> gord: I prefer the T-shirt slogan I got at LRL the one year.  Microsoft sells you Windows.  Linux gives you the whole house!
<shauno> it can't be any worse than the ones about printing your email :/
<directhex> how about we focus on a superior product rather than smug slogans? it'd help
<oimon> yeah lol, usually that sig makes the email go onto 2 pages isntead of 1
<hamitron> hehe directhex
<directhex> too many people talk about their use of linux on the basis of it being not windows. like they're "sticking it to microsoft" or somesuch
<directhex> it's all very childish
<shauno> I don't see that so often anymore.  only the few stragglers that didn't get the memo about apple-bashing being 'in' this year :p
<BigRedS> gord: Identi.ca is where lame setatements that people need to stop saying are repeated
<diplo> I believe all the systems have there places and uses, I use lot's of different distros and think they all have the place.
<hamitron> best way is to just bash and moan about everything imo
<diplo> Just don't agree with pricing/licensing of some that's about it for me
<hamitron> constructive to try improve something imo ;)
<hamitron> regardless of becoming the best
<hamitron> the best can get better
<AlanBell> well I  have my car back now
<hamitron> :D
<AlanBell> anyone know how to scrap a car?
<BigRedS> diplo: I'm the opposite, I've settled on somethingm, it works everywhere(ish) and so that's what I generaly aim to use
<oimon> identica sounds useful - if all the numpties hang out there, then i can avoid it
<oimon> AlanBell: leave it somewhere in E London - it will be gone by the next day
<directhex> AlanBell, getting a SORN is a good start
<BigRedS> AlanBell: also there's new tax/insurance/sorn related rules that I've forgotten
<BigRedS> I think as soon as there's no insurance now, it needs to be sorned
<hamitron> don't they normally give you Â£20 for scrapping your car?
<BigRedS> rather than just when the tax runs out as it was before
<hamitron> BigRedS: you sure?
<hamitron> I know they were taling about doing that
<hamitron> talking*
<BigRedS> hamitron: I don't know if it's happened *yet*
<oimon> don't know how genuine this is..high result on google http://www.scrap-car-uk.com/
<diplo> BigRedS, I use windows on my work machine for one reason, and that's because I can't get the fans to stop going Full pelt under Linux otherwise I think I could run solely on Ubuntu now
<BigRedS> but it is a certainty, though the only dates I've seen are 'early 2011' which is getting more and more useless as a date ...
<BigRedS> diplo: just unplug the fans :)
<oimon> diplo: which model machine is it?
<hamitron> do you need insurance to drive something to get an MOT?
<BigRedS> hamitron: yeah
<gordonjcp> hamitron: yes
<hamitron> thought so
<gordonjcp> hamitron: no insurance is about the only thing you *cannot* get away with
<BigRedS> getting tax depends upon both insurance and MOT, but *having* tax doesn't until these new rules
<hamitron> you had to show insurence details to get tax....
<diplo> Lappy
<diplo> HP Probook 4720s
<gordonjcp> hamitron: long story short, you must have insurance for it to be even look like it's on a road
<hamitron> well, I'm not declaring mine sorn if I have to delay buying insurence, if I have paid for the tax disc
<gordonjcp> hamitron: you can drive to the MOT station without an MOT, as long as it's booked in, and you can drive between the MOT station and the place you're going to get the MOT failure fixed
<hamitron> sell all my bikes if it gets a hassle :/
<BigRedS> gordonjcp: I'm pretty sure the latter part of that is not so
<gordonjcp> and if you have no tax disc you technically can get done for that, but if you're on the way to the MOT station then you'll generally get away with it
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: going by the MOT Tester Manual...
<AlanBell> if the MOT is booked you can drive there
<hamitron> gordonjcp: they can't "do you" for no tax disc, when the MOT is a requirement to get one
<hamitron> :/
<gordonjcp> hamitron: well, you are strictly committing an offence
<BigRedS> gordonjcp: Ah, that's quite canonical on the subject :)
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: it's also a bit out-of-date
<BigRedS> hamitron: the offence is being on the road without a tax disk. If you've no tax they expect you to trailer it there.
<BigRedS> but the whole thing makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
<gordonjcp> but I'm MOTing at least a car a month at the moment
<gordonjcp> so I'll ask next time I'm in
<gordonjcp> anyway I had an Ubuntu question, but I'm glad to see that this channel is at off-topic as my other favourite IRC channels ;-)
<hamitron> time they did something useful, like clamp down on uninsured drivers
<hamitron> oh, sorry
<hamitron> :)
<gordonjcp> old people who can't see properly and have no idea what speed they're doing
<hamitron> shoot them
<hamitron> \o/
<BigRedS> we're normally pretty good at sticking to the 'uk' bit of the topic...
<gordonjcp> and thus drive at 37mph *everywhere* regardless of speed limit, until they drive up the back of my tractor
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I wont be online tomorrow for UGJ
<darkwingduck_> uk
<gordonjcp> anyway
<hamitron> I got pulled by police doing 25 mph in a 60mph zone :/
<gordonjcp> I have 10.04, and I want to get the volume control working
<bigcalm> darkwingduck_: I'm fine thank you, how are you? ;)
<gordonjcp> at the moment it shows a speaker symbol and three dashes
<darkwingduck_> me so fine
<darkwingduck_> bored
<darkwingduck_> welcome to the uk
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: click on it and uncheck the mute checkbox
<czajkowski> darkwingduck_: howdy
<gordonjcp> there isn't a mute checkbox
<darkwingduck_> not a yank
<gordonjcp> there's a greyed-out option for "Mute All"
<dutchie> is there a sound prefs thing?
<dutchie> i have a mute box there on maverick, think it was onther on hardy too
<dogmatic69> anyone know if/how i could run my own personal 'dynamic dns' server?
<hamitron> dogmatic69: you could
<gordonjcp> dutchie: yes, but when I click on sound preferences I get a message "Waiting for sound system to respond" after about a minute
<darkwingduck_> dydns
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: run a DNS such as bind9 and give your records really low TTL
<dogmatic69> cool
<dogmatic69> is it much work to setup a dns?
<hamitron> my question to dogmatic69 would be "why?" ;)
<darkwingduck_> its easy
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: if you need to ask how to set up DNS, I don't think that you're ready to run your own dyndns farm
<dutchie> gordonjcp: not much good at debugging sound stuff more complex than that, sorry
<dogmatic69> im just to tight to pay for doing <something>.dogmatic69.com when i can do it for free
<darkwingduck_> no i dont think he is
<darkwingduck_> do u know what dns stands for even
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I use joker.com. They offer dyndns facilities for free
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: i know very little about dns, need to learn :)
<dogmatic69> domain name server..
<dogmatic69> system... close enough
<gordonjcp> is it possibly a pulseaudio thing?
<hamitron> brb, need to see if ANY comp here has CF slot :/
<shauno> bind's nowhere near as terrifying as you'd imagine.  just make liberal use of named-checkconf  and named-checkzone every time you push anything
<dogmatic69> 6 months ago i knew nothing about linux... now i can get around terminal, mostly ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: meh
<czajkowski> 14:49 < czajkowski> hmm did latest updates of natty, rebooted and not coming back to life... either my laptop is messed up, or latest updates breaks things, jcastro any idea?
<czajkowski> 14:53 < czajkowski> hmm every time I put my mouse over the text box to click on the user nick to log in the screen goes BLACK
<davmor2> czajkowski: I've said it before I'll say it again "STOP UPDATING/UPGRADING YOUR MACHINE, YOU BREAK IT EVERYTIME YOU DO" ;)
<hamitron> :)
<czajkowski> :s
<davmor2> czajkowski: this is on gdm right you're trying to login to your computer correct?
<czajkowski> aye
<dogmatic69> czajkowski: you update to the april 1st version by chance?
<oimon> lol
<AlanBell> 4/30
<darkwingduck_> yawn
<davmor2> czajkowski: I have no idea how you would go about fixing gdm I've never managed to break it that bad.  You can try ALT-CTRL-F1 login sudo service gdm restart and then A-C-F7 see if that fixes it
<czajkowski> seem teh mouse pad is ultra sensative...
<czajkowski> wont let me click on it
<czajkowski> but as soon as I touch on it , it alternatives between gdm and command line
<czajkowski> I really do break things
<davmor2> czajkowski: You should be banned from using computer for their safety :P
<czajkowski> oh if I plug in a mouse I can login....
<davmor2> czajkowski: turn down the sensitivity of the pad once your in then
<bigcalm> Spitting out slabs of lime scale is a sure sine the kettel needs some attention
<silner> It's amazing how much limescale there has to be before you start to taste it
<silner> Or it could just be my tastebuds are dead
<hamitron> we have a ball of wire mesh to help
<hamitron> rolls around in the kettle and it turns to a ball of limescale that you take out and smash :)
<hamitron> for the most part it works
<DJones> hamitron: Isn't a ball of wire mesh better know as a brillowpad
<czajkowski> davmor2: odd, changing the sensitivity of the mouse makes no difference.
<czajkowski> it's liek the think pad area has a mind of it's own
<silner> They look pretty similar
<hamitron> DJones: shrugs
<davmor2> czajkowski: are you changing the sensitivity of the trackpad or the mouse?
<czajkowski> tackpad
<davmor2> czajkowski: does for me so no idea must be a thinkpad think that or God hates you and this is your penance :D
<hamitron> DJones: similar I suppose
<hamitron> http://www.discountsuperstore.co.uk/products/53615/
<davmor2> s/think/thing
<njpatel> davmor2, dude, 3.8.2 is available
<davmor2> njpatel: cool I'll give it a try asap
<njpatel> thanks
<czajkowski> davmor2: not feeling the love buddy!
<davmor2> czajkowski: Sorry sweetness but there no a lot I can do from here for your machine not work there even if I knew how to fix it :(
<czajkowski> how on earth do I log a bug against a track pad for flip sake
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> I shouldnt be allowed near computers you know
<davmor2> czajkowski: that was my earlier triage for your bug
<exobuzz> 3:35pm. too early for the pub ?
<brobostigon> exobuzz: never, :)
<gord> czajkowski, xserver normally i think
<exobuzz> i think im going to agree and have a pint then
<davmor2> gord: that's what I thought but xserver is now automatic so nothing will show up there, hence I'd of thought of toning down the speed via the mouse settings
<screen-x> shade your eyes! http://www.dokuwiki.org
<davmor2> screen-x: we all thought you were our friend and then you go and do that to us
<Mez> can anyone reccomend a spanish company for dedi servers?
<czajkowski> gord: thanks
<directhex> el space del rack?
<davmor2> njpatel: seems to of fixed it partially.  There is a glitch when dnd record my desktop icon in.  The icon changes to an all grey ? however once dropped it changes to the record my desktop icon again
<njpatel> davmor2, weird....that's definitely a bug
<njpatel> (thanks for testing too :)
<Mez> directhex: rackspace?
<czajkowski> gord: when I type xsever it tabs to xserver- ?
<czajkowski> any idea what I should put it against
<davmor2> czajkowski: ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg
<bigcalm> If you double click on a word in a web browser, it will sellect that word. I'm using some JS to give a span an action. Is there a way to stop double the hilighting with multiple clicks?
<oimon> czajkowski: often i update natty halfway during the builds process and it breaks *everything* - have you tried a subsequent pacakge update since your breakage?
<screen-x> bigcalm: you could attempt to disable selection with css, but that doesn't work in IE :(
<bigcalm> Ah well
<bigcalm> I could make them <buttons> instead
<pwuertz> hi! does anybody know about a qt example application for graph-node-editing like this? http://ktown.kde.org/~zrusin/quasar1.png
<screen-x> pwuertz: that looks like quartz composer
<pwuertz> screen-x, exactly
<davmor2> czajkowski: I get that not 2 on gdm definitely a bug.  You can of course do what I did and click on enter then type in your password :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: eh
<screen-x> pwuertz: have you had a look at http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/base/quasar/ ?
<hamin> :D
<screen-x> hi hamin :)
<hamitron> that is on my thin client
<hamitron> :)
<pwuertz> screen-x, ahh thanks, I didn't know about this site
<screen-x> what sort of thin client hamitron?
<hamitron> erm
<davmor2> czajkowski: your bug is infectious
<hamitron> http://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/VXLpercio/index.shtml
<hamitron> running tinycore on it
<screen-x> its a real live parallel port!
<hamitron> I seem to ahve lost the terminal on it
<davmor2> czajkowski: they say there is an update that fixes it so you need to do apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> davmor2: so not me going mad then!!!!!!!
<czajkowski> whats the bug number so I can go me too!
<davmor2> czajkowski: I don't know I just asked on the right channel and was told to upgrade again it had been fixed
<davmor2> czajkowski: you should see a xserver-xorg-synaptics  in the list of packages being updated
<davmor2> or something similar
<czajkowski> ok
<domjohnson> Hi
<davmor2> domjohnson: hello
<dogmatic69> o/
<domjohnson> I have a problem while copying to/from an SD card onto my computer. I'm trying o copy a video file from it, both via the internal SD card reader and a USB adapter, and it copies a couple of hundred megabytes before failing with an "Input/Output Error"
<dogmatic69> disk full?
<bigcalm> domjohnson: possibly the SD card is curropt
<domjohnson> bigcalm - perhaps, but the camera has no problems with it, and its the same for two different SD cards that have been used in two different cameras.
<bigcalm> Try copying the files one by one
<bigcalm> To see where it fails
<oimon> also /var/log/messages may have some useful infgo
<czajkowski> davmor2: hmmm
<czajkowski> still no change
<davmor2> czajkowski: you need to reboot
<domjohnson> bigcalm - I have tried copying one by one - but its a big file...out of about 700MB, it fails on 209
<domjohnson> Seems that the device disconnects itself
<pwuertz> screen-x, I'm very sorry, but how do I checkout this directory you posted? Svn refuses to download it because of some relocate error...
<screen-x> pwuertz: "svn co svn://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/base/quasar" works for me
<mgdm> popey: ping?
<pwuertz> screen-x, ah ok.. tried http :/
 * DJones debates, faster processer/smaller screen or slower processor/larger screen for a laptop
<Laney> how small is smaller?
<DJones> 1366x768 v 1600x900
<DJones> Its not as if I do anything that would be processor hungry
<DJones> I don't play games, occasionally a bit of video conversion but thats about all
<popey> mgdm: pong?
<bigcalm> popey: he needs a bath
<mgdm> popey: in our discussion about web servers the other day - I forgot to ask if you've got APC or Xcache or some other accelerator like that installed
<BigRedS> smaller screen!
<BigRedS> assuming everything else gets smaller also
<DJones> BigRedS: I like the larger screen space though
<popey> mgdm: none of those
<Laney> I find my 13" MBP to be a perfect size
<mgdm> popey: ! - install php5-apc, I think the package is called - usually improves performance by about 40% on WP installs, in my experience
<popey> will try that on my blog, thanks!
<popey> does it need configuring?
<mgdm> not for your purposes
<mgdm> for the common cases the defaults are fine
<popey> thanks
 * Laney is going to try ikiwiki for le blog soon
<popey> +1 on the 13" mbp
<willy_1977> I think I'd go smaller if I had a choice... less weight when I cycle in :p
<hamitron> I am tempted with this http://www.ebuyer.com/product/215084
<willy_1977> plus I can always plug in to a monitor with more space (caveats on graphics card of course) when I get to the office / customers
<DJones> Size/weight aren't that much of a consideration, 99% of the time it'll be used at one place, current screen size is 1600x1200 which is why I'm more tempted to the larger screen
<hamitron> well, I like my dell laptop
<hamitron> old, heavy and saves on gym fees
<DJones> hamitron: Sounds like mine, saves visiting a museum as well, just look at the laptop & see ancient history
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> I've even upgraded to a geforce 4 now
<hamitron> so even better \o/
<DJones> If its been upgraded, it can't be a "classic" though, yours is the 8200 from memory
<hamitron> 8100
<hamitron> came with a geforce 2
<DJones> Same as mine then
<hamitron> my 2nd one still has a geforce 2
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> dedicated scalextric pitstop control system \o/
<DJones> Comparing it to whats out now and comparing the prices makes me think though, I bought it when it was released back in the Windows ME days
<hamitron> Â£2300ish? ;)
<hamitron> mine was anyway :/
<DJones> Yep
<hamitron> oh, tell a lie
<hamitron> my 2nd laptop is the latitude C810
<hamitron> the one I wanted at the time that cost Â£3850
<hamitron> was out of budget :/
<hamitron> bought it for Â£40
<DJones> Heh
<hamitron> so guess that kinda puts devaluation into perspective
<DJones> I wonder how many of todays laptops will still be working and day to day use in 10 years time though
<gord> lots of people still use windows xp laptops, windows xp was what 10 years ago?
<hamitron> my friend got a time laptop at the same time as me getting the dell..... he is on his 5th laptop....
<DJones> gord: About that, I got the laptop in the last days of Windows ME, I tried changing the order before it was delivered to XP put on it
<DJones> Ah well, home time now
<hamitron> I got XP and always wanted ME :/
<hamitron> I was 2 weeks late for ME
<gord> these days i prefer low power usage/long battery life in my portable machines. my desktop can be my powerhouse, i don't need a laptop to be all that powerful. just enough to get by
<hamitron> gord: I never actually run off battery still
<hamitron> it is more of a portable desktop+monitor
<shauno> if the battery's 10 years old too, I can't blame you :p
<hamitron> but for most uses, I agree with you
<hamitron> shauno: still get 2 hours
<gord> i found myself in a similar situation, so i decided to stop using my laptop and get a desktop. nice big monitor - nice powerful machine
<gord> use a netbook for my portable stuff. only use the laptop when traveling
<hamitron> I still use my inspiron for old games
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> no drivers for win98 for my last 3 desktop machines :/
<hamitron> desktops are better for sure
<hamitron> and netbooks are more portable
<hamitron> but there is some use for that inbetween where you want a bit more power and to move around
<hamitron> I did a lot of CAD work on my laptop when studying
<hamitron> now a netbook......
<hamitron> :(
<gord> of course we are all stupid, in five years everyone will be using tablets and won't even know what a desktop/laptop *is*.
<hamitron> I'd replace "everyone" with "most people"
<brobostigon> or "alot of people"
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> for the average joe pratting about on facebook, a tablet is all they need
<hamitron> but I don't think the world has moved on enough, to the point we can all do no work
<hamitron> tbh, I'd prefer a world where on computer has an OS
<hamitron> no*
<hamitron> then we all carry our "comp" around as a usb stick
<brobostigon> that wouldbe no fun.
<gord> i was being sarcastic
<hamitron> boot our OS of choice
<gord> i think most people will still use laptops
<hamitron> gord: I could see your joking actually happening :)
<mgdm> I rather suspect the computer on a USB stick thing might be a VM somewhere that you connect to, assuming pervasive network access
<hamitron> mgdm: maybe, yeh
<hamitron> whatever happens, can be sure they will leave 5-10% of the population behind, due to technical limitations
<hamitron> bbl.food
<KrimZon> AHA!
<penguin42> hamitron: Well, you could fit a reasonable machine on a USB stick
<penguin42> hamitron: Think about a high end mobile but remove pesky things like the battery, lcd, and phone stuff
<KrimZon> this time, I was reading mail in gmail, and the thumbnail icon for a youtube video linked in the email but added to the page by gmail, popped up in a new tab - this might be due to optimizegoogle
<KrimZon> unless gmail always does that without the extension
<hamitron> penguin42: my image is more, just a storage device like we have now, but everyone boots off them into their OS/system of choice
<penguin42> hamitron: Oh you mean just an actual USB key ?
<hamitron> yeh
<penguin42> boring!
<hamitron> what you suggest would be more fun
<penguin42> oh, cpu, storage, ram - just plug in a monitor and keyboard
<hamitron> but the most important thing to most people is their data
<directhex> moo.
<hamitron> if each public pc had no storage, it would be easier to administrate, alongside all users having their data and choice of software
<penguin42> indeed, that's all the thinclient stuff
<davmor2> MOO!
<penguin42> or ChromeOS
<hamitron> yeh
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski as she isn't here to retaliate muhahahahaha
<hamitron> only google has this idea of everything being stored on their cloud
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> apps run remotely
<hamitron> if the OS and apps are stored on the local usb key, speed would be much better
<penguin42> hamitron: Actually given USB sticks normal speed I'm not sure if that's true
<hamitron> usb3....
<hamitron> ssd usb3.0 drives
<MartijnVdS> esata \o/
<hamitron> or esata
<mgdm> Magic data pixies \o/
<hamitron> or magic pixies
<hamitron> erm... ;/
<hamitron> I think usb is the best, as there is a wide range of devices already with it
<hamitron> not many comps with cases that have front facing esata
<shauno> I don't have any machines with front-facing usb3 :)
<hamitron> but usb2 is enough!
<hamitron> slower, but functional
<hamitron> also, usb is easier to multiply ports
<hamitron> geeks could get usb keys with built in devices, like sound cards, etc
<MartijnVdS> my 3G modem comes with built-in micro-SD reader
<MartijnVdS> for some useless reason
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: reckon you could boot off it?
<MartijnVdS> No, it's in "CD-mode" then
<hamitron> but anyway, I think all this boot stuff would be cool in the public place
<MartijnVdS> you have to poke it with usb-modeswitch before it shows itself (3G modem + SD reader)
 * daubers just had to ring the rozzers after having stuff hurled at him at junction 12
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> ouh.
<daubers> Ah well, shall let the authorities deal with them
<brobostigon> yes. :)
<hamitron> stuff?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, you want to know the reason?
<daubers> hamitron: No idea what it was
<MartijnVdS> directhex: for what?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, the sd slot
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Sure
<MartijnVdS> Because the "CD-ROM" part contains the Windows/MacOS drivers..
<MartijnVdS> it's not for that
<directhex> MartijnVdS, the chipset inside the dongle is pretty much off-the-shelf for use inside phones
<directhex> MartijnVdS, so the chipset already has an SD controller
<directhex> wiring it up is a cheap way to advertise moar features
<MartijnVdS> integrated circuit is integrated :)
<MartijnVdS> more integrated than I realized :)
<directhex> wonder what i did wit5h my dongle, since i don't need it
<MartijnVdS> I don't really use mine either.. my laptop has a built-in Gobi 2000
<shauno> bored of april fools' already.  all my feeds are full of junk :(
<brobostigon> same here,
<BigRedS> yeah, I've avoided twitter today mostly
<BigRedS> and slashdot
<MartijnVdS> Everyone in the Netherlands is tweeting from "#FE11"
<MartijnVdS> doing outrageous things.. or so they say
<directhex> MartijnVdS, does your gobi sometimes randomly drop & reappear during use?
<MartijnVdS> I don't use it that often
<MartijnVdS> haven't noticed it
<directhex> i'm on mine right now. thanks, BT!
<shauno> my dongle seems to drop if it gets to warm :(
 * mgdm quotes that out of context
<shauno> someone had to
<shauno> but still, been tempted to take a dremel to it :/  usb sticks shouldn't need heatsinks
 * MartijnVdS is seldom tempted to dremel hardware
<MartijnVdS> but I might be strange
<directhex> i can't play any minecraft :(
<MartijnVdS> because of the upgradE?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, dsl's gone poof
<MartijnVdS> ah
<shauno> you ran out of internets and you're worried about mc?
<directhex> shauno, i have super slow 3g
<suprengr> b00!
 * suprengr is on 1st of 3 days off... bokkie o' beer in hand.  Feeling sarcastic... warning ;)
<brobostigon> ok, see you chaps nd gals later, i am going out nd having fun.
<zleap> i found a hdd with breezy on to day :D
<MartijnVdS> zleap: wow.. stone-age :)
<zleap> yeah, i took a few old hard disks in to where i am volunteering to try and get a computer working,
<zleap> so tried to install 9.04 and it showed up on the patition screen 5.10 breezy
<MartijnVdS> wow
<zleap> we think there is an issue with the primaryt ide channel as it won't boot,  i can install when it finds the hdd (hence the above)
<suprengr> zleep checked the cable from ide1 outlet to hdd?  an often missed instant problem solver.
<zleap> i will do
<suprengr> cool
<zleap> next friday need to put ram back in and check everything over again
<directhex> IDE? that's the interface based on smoke signals, right?
<zleap> hmm
<MartijnVdS> Nah, you can use eclipse to attach disks?! :)
<zleap> one of the other hdds i tried has windows on it
<zleap> but that just blue screened
<suprengr> ide... [no it's just an ide[a]  :)
<MartijnVdS> don't forget to do "long" SMART tests
 * MartijnVdS had a 1.5TB disk die this week :(
<zleap> ouch
 * suprengr cries for MartijnVdS 
<MartijnVdS> Good thing it was in my NAS in RAID1
<zleap> i did a fsck last week and a disk check today no errors
<MartijnVdS> fsck isn't enough
<zleap> it would be funny if it could come up with an error if it finds windows
<zleap> ah
<zleap> what about disk check from the ubuntu install
<suprengr> zleap: [ckeck that cable
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: â¬60 got me a new disk.. and a nice cup of tea with a good friend :)
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: (who lives just around the corner)
<zleap> well this comptuer when working should have a whole 512 mb ram
<suprengr> MartijnVdS: like it ;)
<zleap> which is better than having other computers with 3 64mb sticks of pc100 or 133 in
<MartijnVdS> speaking of memory.. I need to check this machine
<MartijnVdS> I don't remember if I put in 2x2GB or 4x1GB sticks of RAM
<zleap> thats it rub it in
<zleap> the lighthouse IT department welcome donations of such computers :D
<hamitron> I just built mine, so know I ahve 2x4gb ;)
 * DJones rubs a bit harder and is going for 2 laptops tomorrow, both with 4Gb
<hamitron> :))
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: That's why I'm checking :) I want more gigabyteses
<daubers> I have a dozen 12TB NAS boxes on the bench in the office with 12GB of RAM in each :)
<MartijnVdS> but I also want a Sandy Bridge i7, but that'd mean replacing the motherboard
<hamitron> I need a 256Mb PC133 144 pin SODIMM if anyone has any spare
 * MartijnVdS shakes his fist at daubers
<zleap> hmm if anything i have 64mb
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: I have 64M
<zleap> or 128
<suprengr> daubers: ... boasting!
<hamitron> my new box has 64mb already ty
<zleap> 64mb ram
<daubers> suprengr: They've all ben sold to clients though :( Just going through load testing
<suprengr> ;(
<DJones> hamitron: If thats the machine you posted a pic of before, I'm sure I've got some old memory sticks that are bigger than that box
<hamitron> DJones: hehe
<suprengr> daubers: was going to ask for 1 till last comment!
<hamitron> DJones: I am focused on it, max out the ram and it will be sweet
 * suprengr gets wallet out
<hamitron> linux kernel doesn't know of SIS cpu, but seems to work fine
<DJones> daubers: What about the one that fell off the workbench
<daubers> DJones: I have got a smashed up one that was dropped on it's way to the IoM
<zleap> lol
<zleap> IoM
<zleap> isle of mann
<daubers> Need to write a report for the insurance peoples
<MartijnVdS> did it sink? :)
<suprengr> rebuild, rebuild, superglue,. wallet.... mmmmm
<daubers> suprengr: MoBo has a crack in it...
<zleap> duct tape (or is that duck tape) can never remember
<suprengr> daubers: /me withdraws offer as fast as /me can run
<daubers> suprengr: I also have no idea what damage has been done to the disks after that kind of wallop
<suprengr> ...& runs faster still!
<jacobw> How do you start gnome terminal on Unity :|
<suprengr> zleap: duct tape is the strong one - duck tape requires a cassette player to listen to... quack!
<zleap> ah
<zleap> so use the former, duct tape
<suprengr> unless you like  "quake"
<zleap> yeah
<suprengr> or "quack"
<zleap> not played that much
<zleap> i played doom a lot though
 * mgdm prefers gaffer tape
<jacobw> Hmm, I found terminal now.
 * suprengr prefers Doom and gaffer tape
<zleap> ctrl-alt+T brings up terminal
<jacobw> Some parts of Unity are intuitive, other parts are just like APP FOR THAT! APP FOR THAT!
<zleap> well on 10.04 it does
<zleap> but its getting more mac like
<zleap> even the menus a like how macs work
<mgdm> I've not tried unity yet
<jacobw> I gave my netbook running Unity to my Dad to show him the new developments, all he did was open Firefox and went straight to GroupOn
<zleap> OK
<jacobw> All people care about is websites :|
<zleap> i installed gnomeDO the other day and failed to work out it actually does
<jacobw> I don't whether we should embrace this or not :s
<jacobw> Its like Alt-F2 on steroids
<directhex> jacobw, more or less
<suprengr> Anyone know the way around this..?  HAD KVM installed (didn't like) so went for Virtualbox... but I get VirtualBox can't operate in VMX root mode. Please disable the KVM kernel extension, recompile your kernel and reboot (VERR_VMX_IN_VMX_ROOT_MODE).
<directhex> jacobw, try enabling plugins of use to you, then it'll make more sense
<directhex> jacobw, e.g. you can hit win-space and type the name of an artist you like (or a few letters of their name), to play them in RB or banshee
<directhex> jacobw, it only works if you use it a lot, and correct it when it picks the wrong thing, via arrows/tab
<directhex> jacobw, with training, 2 letters is enough for your most common tasks
<jacobw> -> zleap
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> well gnome do puts a huge dialog box on the screen
<directhex> win-space "m" = minesweeper!
<jacobw> Its an omni-launcher
<zleap> ok
<zleap> whats omni then
<jacobw> Heh, I meant that its supposed to be the way you access everything
<jacobw> Its like a command line with autocompletion really, press meta+space and type ban<tab> return to start Banshee etc
<directhex> zleap, here's an example. every Host: line in your ~/.ssh/config is understood by the SSH plugin. so you can hit windows-space, and type some of a hostname, hit enter, and you'll ssh that host. it'll spawn a window and log you in. saves opening a terminal and typing the ssh line
<zleap> ok
<directhex> also uses, say, your firefox history and bookmarks
<zleap> ok
<zleap> maybe it needs demonstrating
<zleap> it just displayed a box with an icon and very little else
<gord> i may have only just realised that 7up is not actually green.. its just the bottle that is
<MartijnVdS> directhex: except the window closes as soon as you close the connection
<jacobw> I don't use it so I can't describe it in detail, but idea is clever :)
<MartijnVdS> which might not be what you want
<MartijnVdS> Alt+F2 FTW :)
<AlanBell> anyone want to jump onto mumble and check their settings for tomorrow?
<Pendulum> AlanBell: sure :)
<DJones> Are there any reasons _not_ to install 64bit ubuntu on a new machine now?
<hamitron> if you are on a machine with less memory, 32 bit will use less?
<DJones> Picking a new machine up tomorrow which is 64-bit with 4gb memory, potentially upgradable to 8gb
<DJones> Flash always used to be an issue on 64bit machines, from what I can remember, I thought flash was ok now
<hamitron> I'd guess so
<hamitron> plenty of people here post youtube links anyway, and some of them are sure to be on 64 bit
<DJones> Might give natty beta a try with it
<hamitron> my ubuntu machine can only handle 2gb ram, so not something that has worried me much
<DJones> hamitron: Lucky you, mine can only take 512mb ):
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> 512Mb is starting to feeel like a pinch now, I am finding
<hamitron> you can't go crazy on it for sure
<DJones> Yes, I'm debating whether to reinstall using lubuntu on it or xubuntu
<hamitron> imo, best to install a cli, then just install what you want
<hamitron> LXDE is a nice choice
<hamitron> but I prefer to not have to download lots of different images
<hamitron> and just stick to the official alternative cd
<andres_kain> hum.. hi, how strict is it to do translations (submit sugestions) without going through the registering emailing list and such...
<Neoti> hey people, me again , whats a good MP3 CD ripper for ubuntu i want to rip my CD collection on to my computer @ 192K ish ...
<shauno> andres_kain: you might want to try asking in #ubuntu-translators
<shauno> I've no idea myself, but they'd surely know where to start :)
<andres_kain> OK I'll check that channel.  Hope it's not frowned upon... launchpad lets me so I guess it's not that bad.
<andres_kain> didn't need to check the channel. silly me. for suggestions there is no need to get into all that stuff.
<DJones> Ouch, I know its El Reg, but this review doesn't do many favours http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/01/ubuntu1004_beta_review/
<DJones> Neoti: I use Sound Juicer to rip cd's
<Neoti> thanks DJones
<shauno> they're less subtle about it, but seem to echo what I'm hearing from everyone else
<hamitron> imo ubuntu's high was 8.04
<hamitron> 10.04 ok too, but not like 10.x
<hamitron> not like 8.04 I mean
<directhex> 8.04 was the design high-point
<directhex> every theme is uglier since
<shauno> heh, I don't judge a distro by the theme.  I always go straight back to Industrial anyway :o)
<hamitron> 10.04 seems solid enough, but it just annoys me with some things
<hamitron> 1) hardware support... open source is trying to advance faster than hardware is replaced
<hamitron> 2) they've tried to make it nicer, by adding things in.... and they just sit unused and get me asking "why?"
<hamitron> 3) it just isn't as snappy
<hamitron> think that is all, off top of my head
<hamitron> :)
<suprengr> 4) they keep aiming at unity requiring higher hardware requirement & forgetting original intention!
 * suprengr runs for cover!
<hamitron> #1 and #3 are not directly because of ubuntu though
<hamitron> but I include them, because I am considering the overall experience
<Azelphur> shauno: we're trying to do the tree thing on my server
<Azelphur> care to join? XD
<hamitron> tree thing?
<Azelphur> hamitron: super tall trees :P
<hamitron> miencraft?
<Azelphur> indeed
<hamitron> minecraft*
<hamitron> how is that done?
<Azelphur> hamitron: he did it with like booster rings
<Azelphur> but we can't seem to get it to work :(
<hamitron> booster rings?
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/tree.mov shauno's video :p
<hamitron> k
<popey> evening
<Pendulum> hiya popey
<daubers> o/
<andres_kain> oye.. estoy usando ubuntu 10.04 porque no me actualiza firefox a 4.0_
<andres_kain> ups. wrong channel
<andres_kain> but same question
<andres_kain> Iá¸¿ with ubuntu 10.04 why doesnt it update 4?
<directhex> firefox 4, you mean?
<andres_kain> yep
<directhex> it breaks a lot of things in the archive, so it's difficult to arrange
<directhex> there are many things using firefox's browser engine which need patching or porting or rewriting to use ff4's engine
<andres_kain> wow...
<andres_kain> so if I want firefox 4 I need to go to 10.9 or 11.04_
<directhex> type "apt-cache rdepends xulrunner-1.9.2" in a terminal
<DJones> andres_kain: Its also the ubuntu policy to do updates for security reasons, but they don't update to new software versions just because they're released
<DJones> andres_kain: You might find that there is a ppa for firefox 4 for 10.04
<directhex> there is.
<directhex> eventually, moving old releases to 4.0 will be needed, because mozilla are crap at security support for anything that isn't their latest
<directhex> but that will bring pain and suffering
<andres_kain> I see... that ppa thing rings a bell. I think I did it for inkscape 0.48.. needed la latex improvement
<hamitron> couldn't ff4 be installed inside its own folder in /opt?
<directhex> hamitron, sure. doesn't help with ff3.6 security woe though
<DJones> !ff4
<lubotu3> Firefox 4 is the current stable version of Firefox. Current versions of Ubuntu do not have it (see !latest), but there is an unofficial and unsupported PPA that you can use by running the following command: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:mozillateam/firefox-stable && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install firefox
<hamitron> no, just lets a user use ff4 alongside
<hamitron> or that
<andres_kain> so.. i took an added risk by installing beta firefox in windows xp. like adding a grain of sand on to a mountain...
<hamitron> ;/
<andres_kain> tuxguitar?
<penguin42> hmm I should go to bed shortly if I'm going to be up for U^3
<andres_kain> U^3 or U$^3$ or $U^3$?
<hamitron> bah
<hamitron> how I update tar from lucid-updates when I can't install anything?
<penguin42> why can't you install anything?
<hamitron> it is on a vps, with an old kernel
<hamitron> and there is a bug with tar on kernels older than 2.6.22
<hamitron> fixed in tar_1.22-2ubuntu1_i386.deb
<penguin42> does dpkg -i work?
<hamitron> no
<penguin42> hmm
<hamitron> tar: ./postinst: Cannot utime: Bad file descriptor
<directhex> extract the package on another machine
<penguin42> ok, so you need to get yourself a tar, bundle it up with something like cpio and then get it to your machine
<directhex> scp across
<ali1234> how did you manage to get into this condition in the first palce?
<directhex> replace binary
<ali1234> an update?
<penguin42> yeh
<directhex> dpkg -x foo.deb /tmp/foobar
<directhex> tar binary should be enough
<hamitron> on the other machine?
<directhex> yes
<hamitron> ty, fixed
<directhex> my invoice is in the mail.
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> dunno what caused it
<hamitron> I assume they did a kernel update
<hamitron> but why didn't I get that error before?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-02
<hamitron> grrrr, locked out now for some reason
<Azelphur> hamitron: debugging obsfucated code is fun :D
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> sddfkljhsdaldfhnasdnkjn
<HazRPG> hamitron: keyboard test?
<hamitron> no, just in a bad mood
<hamitron> was that or the mouse was gonna meet the wall
<hamitron> just had cops round, so kinda hyped up
<HazRPG> hamitron: :o! What happened?!
<hamitron> sisters mobile is still registered at this address, and she had to phone the police because of her bf beating her (again)
<HazRPG> seems someone was talking abut TuxGuitar earlier! I use that!
<HazRPG> hamitron: ouch :(
<hamitron> don't need them calling around, not even knowing the name of who called
<hamitron> really high stress
<HazRPG> can imagine!
<hamitron> once they confirmed it was her, and we gave the other address, they won't even contact us to let us know she is safe
<gordonjcp> hamitron: not wonderful
<hamitron> lucky, this time he hadn't broken her phone
<hamitron> so we could contact her
<hamitron> but last time her phone was smashed and we were in the dark
<hamitron> cba to fix my vps I broke now
<hamitron> so just gonna try chill
<HazRPG> hamitron: play starcraft 2 with me and my mate :D
<hamitron> HazRPG: don't own it
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but ty for offer
<hamitron> I got a trial key for steam, but it is a huge download
<hamitron> so not bothered
<HazRPG> hamitron: new xkcd is in 3D!!!!!
<HazRPG> :o!!!!!!!!!
<HazRPG> this is FREAKY!
<hamitron> xkcd?
<HazRPG> hamitron: .... your kidding right?
<hamitron> no...
<HazRPG> hamitron: hit it! http://xkcd.com
<HazRPG> web comic for geeks :)
<HazRPG> so epic!
<hamitron> I am not a geek ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: lies ;)
<hamitron> I just never got into all these "geek interests"
<hamitron> tbh, I consider myself more of an engineer in general, than an IT guy
<HazRPG> hamitron: then you'll love xkcd!
<HazRPG> it has physic!
<HazRPG> science!
<HazRPG> IT stuffs!
<hamitron> the time wasted reading comics, can be spent doing something useful
<hamitron> the only problem is I tend to spend that time moaning instead
<HazRPG> but... but...
<HazRPG> well what are you doing now?
<HazRPG> exactly!
<HazRPG> hit the link :D
<hamitron> installing ubuntu
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> hit it...
<HazRPG> hittttt itttttt
<hamitron> busy
<hamitron> and off to bed soon
<hamitron> considering getting the new IL-2 game coming out
<hamitron> 128 player online!
<HazRPG> hamitron: get sc2 ;(
<hamitron> I always played C&C more
<hamitron> but lost interest in that series with all the DRM
<HazRPG> coophi: finally!
<coophi> oh hai
<HazRPG> probably a good idea to register your nick now
<HazRPG> if it isn't already
<HazRPG>  /msg nickserv help
<coophi> told you it needed to drop the 'e' :P
<HazRPG> I said yeah
<HazRPG> *eye roll*
 * HazRPG pokes hamitron, shauno to see if there is any activity
<HazRPG> coophi: when was the last time your used irc?
<HazRPG> coophi: in fact... what was the last client for irc you use to use dude?
<coophi> lol LOOONG time ago
<coophi> the name escapes me.. it was the javascript one for a-eng though
<HazRPG> 8-)
<coophi> i never used the client coz i was never logged into it when i was at home
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> I use to use mIRC back in 1998
<HazRPG> coophi: do a whois on me
<HazRPG> how does one go about getting a mask on irc again? (other than via tunnels, vps, etc)
<szymon_g> hi
<szymon_g> good morning!
<coophi> mornin ^^
<HazRPG> szymon_g: sup dude
<szymon_g> wassup ;)
<szymon_g> hm... that unity is quite nice btw
<szymon_g> i've installed it yesterday, seems to be ok
<szymon_g> (apart from fact, that when i've resumed from hibernation, all side icons were gone)
<HazRPG> still in alpha/beta
<HazRPG> check to see if there's a bug :)
<HazRPG> if not, file one! \o/
<szymon_g> hm... i didn't even know where to report it. anyway- it works fine now. and i thought Unity is stable now? /ubuntu 10.10/
<HazRPG> unity 2D is stable
<HazRPG> Unity 3D (aka the one being created for narwal 11.04) isn't yet
<HazRPG> when I say unity 2D, I mean the one that's been used on the netbook editions of ubuntu for a while
<HazRPG> szymon_g: btw, bugs get filed here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity
<HazRPG> if you look on there, unity is far from stable
<HazRPG> slowly getting there though
<HazRPG> szymon_g: does this sound about right: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/609472
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 609472 in unity (Ubuntu) "After resume, all the launcher icons are white boxes" [Medium,Triaged]
<szymon_g> yeap, thats that
<szymon_g> thanx HazRPG lubotu3
<HazRPG> hehe lubotu3 automatically just repeats any bug numbers to tell you what the bug is
<HazRPG> try typing the bug number and you'll see what I mean
<szymon_g> ... ;)
<szymon_g> 609472
<szymon_g> ... :|
 * szymon_g has to go to bed
<szymon_g> se ya!
<szymon_g> *see ya
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> #609472
<HazRPG> random...
<shauno> mornin
<coophi> yo ^^
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> I need to go trash my car now
<coophi> sleepy time
<HazRPG> AlanBell: trash it why?
<HazRPG> also, mornin' guys :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: o/
<MartijnVdS> morning HazRPG
<HazRPG> how's it going?
<MartijnVdS> Just woke up.. reading some of Linus' rants on LKML
<MartijnVdS> ("RAAAH ARM MAINTAINERS")
<HazRPG> lol
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/3/17/492 (not family-safe, maybe)
<MartijnVdS> (it _is_ a Linus rant)
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> even linus himself gets pi**ed off ;)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: often
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> good reasons for I'm guessing though
<MartijnVdS> yes, but there are other ways of getting your point across
<HazRPG> its one thing to release your code, and its another thing to release and find many people trying to screw it up
<HazRPG> I agree though, but its funny xD
<MartijnVdS> Shouting obscenities works.. but people will remember just the obscenities.
<HazRPG> didn't realise you subbed to lkml
<HazRPG> any reason for ? Or just generally nosey at what's happening in the community?
<MartijnVdS> I don't
<MartijnVdS> But some of those "shouting matches" get posted to reddit :)
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> is reddit actually any good?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://i.imgur.com/z5cDb.jpg
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's a great time sink (beware)
<HazRPG> every time I look at it, it just looks like another digg to me
<shauno> oh dear
<HazRPG> shauno: he awakens!
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> guessing you weren't on the night shift last night then
<MartijnVdS> But some of those "shouting matches" get posted to reddit :)
<MartijnVdS> uhm
<MartijnVdS> http://hurrdurr.it/#url=http://www.ubuntu-uk.org
<Jibadeeha> upnp support in rhythmbox sucks
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: this is better :) http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/albuquerque
<gordonjcp> Jibadeeha: s/upnp support in //
<gordonjcp> ftfy
<Jibadeeha> lol
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I know the lyrics. All of them.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :P same
<MartijnVdS> Hey mom, what's up with all the sauerkraut?
<HazRPG> wacka wacka doo doo yeahhhhhhhhh
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: You got any jelly doughnuts?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: No, we're out of jelly doughnuts.
<shauno> that'd explain why it's doritos for breakfast
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: You got any Bavarian cream filled doughnuts?
<HazRPG> shauno: \o/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: No, we're out of Bavarian cream filled doughnuts!
<HazRPG> shauno: I had the half a burger for breakfast from last night, technically... lol
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Cinnamon rolls?
<MartijnVdS> No
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: apple fritters!?
 * MartijnVdS goes check
<HazRPG> :P
<MartijnVdS> "Besides, now he's got a really cute nickname: Torsoboy"
<AlanBell> everyone Jamming later?
<HazRPG> Jamming?
<MartijnVdS> global jamming
<shauno> and I hope you like jamming too
<HazRPG> *insert bob marley song here*
<HazRPG> AlanBell: hmm, is there something for the whole day? (looks at email again)
<AlanBell> there are sessions at various random times
<AlanBell> but I think we will take a pirates code approach to the timetable
<AlanBell> tis more of a guideline than an actual law. Arrrrrrr
<HazRPG> heh :P
<HazRPG> just lookin' at the 10AM stuff
<HazRPG> I think I have most of that down by now
<HazRPG> minus maybe the wiki personal page
<AlanBell> yeah, we put that one up front to help people get started
<AlanBell> oh, well perfect, you can do that bit then
<HazRPG> I keep meaning to!
<HazRPG> I just never know how to describe myself >_<
<HazRPG> or etc
<AlanBell> fine, getting over hurdles like that is *exactly* what this is about
<HazRPG> willy_1977: you'll need to drag yourself into the main channel ("Global Jam") otherwise no one will here you
<willy_1977> oh, has it connected now...
<willy_1977> it was doing it's thing this end for ages ;)
<willy_1977> thanks HazRPG
<HazRPG> willy_1977: no problem :)
<willy_1977> nope client crash :(
<HazRPG> willy_1977: alt. you can double-click on "global jam" and it'll do the same effect :)
<willy_1977> some weird stuff going on here, so will reboot and be back shortly ;)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: isn't there a way to make a channel the default one?
<HazRPG> willy_1977: no problem :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I'm not sure how you've set it up, but this is one way of doing it: http://mumble.sourceforge.net/MurmurCL#Setting_a_default_channel
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Just found an alternative to that method, depending on how you've setup mumble (either to use sqlite as the database, etc)... you just need to change/add the records in the "config" table as: server_id = 1; key = "defaultchannel"; value = id_number_of_channel (should be 0);
<HazRPG> I use an sqlite browser to add/remove stuff in mine, however I'm sure there's a terminal tool for the same job
<HazRPG> just food for thought, since I'm sure the whole channel thing might be confusing to some
<HazRPG> heh, I'm use to doing this in windows
<HazRPG> managed to find the database though, its found in /var/lib/mumble-server/mumble-server.sqlite
<willy_1977> don't you hate it when you've had something working perfectly well and then on the day when you need it...
<HazRPG> yup!
<willy_1977> mumble - All I have is an unresponsive app after hitting connect (I've tried both hostnames)
<willy_1977> ok, time to think logically I guess :)
<HazRPG> check the port number :)
<HazRPG> hang on, it says your in channel though
<willy_1977> hmmmm...
<HazRPG> did you hear anything just then?
<willy_1977> nope...
<HazRPG> port number is: 64738
<HazRPG> btw
<willy_1977> Should have gone now?
<HazRPG> yeah
<willy_1977> hmm interesting mumble was going fine but the gui is getting hung up on itself...
<HazRPG> try removing it and installing it again
<willy_1977> will do - next on the list... it seems to get caught up when trying to sort SSL out...
<HazRPG> didn't realise it did SSL stuff
<HazRPG> willy_1977: might also be worth adding the ppa for the latest version of mumble (1.2.3) which is the version I'm running on
<willy_1977> I *think* this is going to install 1.2.3-1ubuntu6 (mumble)
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> didn't realise they'd updated it on the ubuntu repo
<HazRPG> the one I'm rolling with is 1.2.3-1~ppa~maverick1 (mumble)
<HazRPG> although both sound similar
<willy_1977> true, I'll see if this works... if it does I may have been a complete numpty... more to follow on that if so :)
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> right I'm going to scavenge some food from the kitchen somewhere
<HazRPG> bbl
<willy_1977> kk
<HazRPG> oh, btw, says your on the server again (just thought I'd let you know)
<willy_1977> thanks... flipping thing...
<AlanBell> morning all
<willy_1977> morning, still having mumble issues here :(
<AlanBell> just restarting the mumble server to give it more memory and a default channel
<willy_1977> Ok, I think I'm having issues with my firewall etc. tbh.
<AlanBell> ok, we can get that sorted
<willy_1977> *routers firewall
<willy_1977> some noncey firmware on there that I haven't figured out yet...
 * danfish will be joining in later - the normal Saturday morning kids stuff first ;)
<AlanBell> willy_1977: ok, so you need to get outbound TCP access to the default mumble port
<willy_1977> AlanBell: yep, so far I can open a set range of ports e.g. ssh, telnet etc. but there doesn't seem to be anywhere to add services / ports :(
<willy_1977> I'm not quite sure what's changed because as you know it was working the other night.
<AlanBell> willy_1977: on most domestic routers outbound ports should be open anyway
<willy_1977> :/
<willy_1977> ah, ok, so is it just outbound it needs then?
<AlanBell> yup
<willy_1977> hmmm maybe then my suspicions on firewall were incorrect
<AlanBell> port 64738, but it shouldn't be an issue
<HazRPG> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HazRPG
<willy_1977> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeeWilliams is me... ;)
<HazRPG> \o/
<willy_1977> yeah I've been meaning to ask what does \o/ mean then?
<Daviey> willy_1977, What version of ubuntu are you using?
<AlanBell> person waving both hands in the air
<AlanBell> o/ <- waving one hand
<willy_1977> AlanBell: thought as much
<willy_1977> Daviey: 11.04
<Daviey> willy_1977, Ah... are you fully up to date on updates?
<willy_1977> thought I was, will check now.
<Daviey> I found mumble unusable for months under Natty... only recently has it worked better with the UI.
 * willy_1977 fetches coat
<willy_1977> I'm beginning to doubt myself a little then :) but I could've sworn it was working on 11.04 the other night...
<Daviey> There was a known, "minimize and lose it forever" issue aswell.
<Daviey> jamespage, here for the JAM? :)
 * willy_1977 we're jammin'
<Daviey> jamespage1, here for the JAM? :)
<AlanBell> oops, did I break the server?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: seems that way!
<willy_1977> I've just had a automatic bug report come through when exiting the update-manager gui , it appears to have been logged before is there anyway I can attach my info to that bug, i.e. does the auto reporting tool store it's reports and if so where?
<AlanBell> Hi all, we are now moving on to sorting out the wiki pages http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ListOfUKTeamPages
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<brobostigon> sorry i am late.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good morning :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: goodmorning, :)
<brobostigon> let mefire mumble up.
<HazRPG> sure :)
<HazRPG> Update my wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HazRPG
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: You should add "Future plans for Ubuntu: Remove unity"
<HazRPG> xD
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: or, replace with gnome3. :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: or that.
<MartijnVdS> For now, I'm sticking to classic
<MartijnVdS> â¥ panels
<brobostigon> :)
 * jacobw likes Unity
<HazRPG> agrees â¥ panels :)
<HazRPG> classic ftw
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Stuff you have done -- set up an IPv6 tunnel ;)
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> ta :)
<brobostigon> setup ipv6 routing.
<MartijnVdS> that as well
<brobostigon> setup a radvd,whatever description fits.
<brobostigon> addr advertising ?
<HazRPG> yeah :)
<HazRPG> updated, how does that look :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: let me check, oneminute.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: looks good, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: thanks :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: youre welcome.
<HazRPG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/743486
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 743486 in calibre "library/server/ doesn't listen on ipv6" [Undecided,Fix released]
<Daviey> HazRPG, Have you undergone the HE 'tasks'?
<HazRPG> Daviey: erm...? The tests?
<HazRPG> if so, then yeah :)
<Daviey> HazRPG, http://ipv6.he.net/certification/
<HazRPG> I certainly have :)
<HazRPG> http://ipv6.he.net/certification/scoresheet.php?pass_name=hazrpg
<HazRPG> Daviey: guessing you saw my blog post :)
<Daviey> HazRPG, yeah.. glad to see you used HE, rather than Sixxs
<HazRPG> Daviey: I tried Sixxs a year or two ago, and well... I didn't like it, simply put
<HazRPG> even tried miredo (ubuntu) and teredo (win machine) a few years back
<MartijnVdS> So sixxs still have the uptime rules?
<HazRPG> I think so
<Daviey> HazRPG, I really disliked sixxs for being complete asses. :)
 * Daviey explains verbally.
<brobostigon> sixxs dont have uptime rules with the way i connect ti them,
<DJones> Yay, new laptop arrived and a live usb of natty works nicely on it
<sagaci> anyone around that's worked in translations for 3+ cycles?
<HazRPG> Daviey: apparently tee's go out in batches I've been informed
<Daviey> ahh
<Daviey> HazRPG, I guess i should do my glue stuff then.
<HazRPG> Daviey: indeed :)
<penguin42> hi from u^3 in Manchester
<HazRPG> penguin42: howdy :D
<DJones> Now to create recovery  discs for win7, free up some space & install ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: UÂ³
<MartijnVdS> Not U96 or U235
<HazRPG> DJones: hurrah \o/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwc0shJ2aYc
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that is random xD
<MartijnVdS> No, that's U96 :)
<HazRPG> Daviey: hopefully my blog post will help some others curious about ipv6
 * willy1977 is just setting a few more things up...
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> for vnc n stuff
<willy1977> have got further it's asking me for a password for registered users?
<willy1977> *mumble I mean :)
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> as far as I know... there isn't one
<brobostigon> agreed, there isnt.
<willy1977> what's the url for the mumble server then? in case I've got the wrong one?
<HazRPG> mumble.libertus.co.uk
<HazRPG> port 64738
<willy1977> http://virt-manager.et.redhat.com/page/StorageManagement
<DJones> Almost ready to install ubuntu, should I go with 32 or 64 bit & 10.10 or 11.04 beta, decisions, decisions ...., its nice to have to make decisions like this
<sagaci> DJones, probably 10.10 but you'll probably want to reinstall 11.04 in a month's time
<DJones> sagaci: Just been trying 11.04, unity is going to take some getting used to
<DJones> sagaci: I can do some bug testing as well, although I could do 10.10 and then try 11.04 in a vm
<sagaci> DJones, you can fallback to gnome 2.32.x
<DJones> I've seen that, must admit I normally install/update once they hit beta, so I'll probably go with natty as the main install, now I've got a decent machine it'll be good to see what its capeable of
<sagaci> just expect hitches
<Daviey> HazRPG, yeah, it was a good blog post!
<AlanBell> anyone else want to come and join in our Natty install over VNC?
<AlanBell> vncviewer libertushost1.libertus.co.uk:5906
<AlanBell> password is ubuntuuk
<AlanBell> and join the mumble thing to talk about it as we go
<AlanBell> the idea is to file bugs against the installer
<JR0cket> I had a problem with the install when I checked the "Install this third-party software" - install did not complete
<AlanBell> next session is at 16:00 going through the Natty install with the screenreader option and filing bugs
 * BigRedS claims that inistence upon swap partition is a bug
<shauno> does it actually demand one now?  I thought it used to just pop up a warning making sure you know what you're doing
<BigRedS> yeah, it warns, but it makes it sound like it's a terribly bad idea
<willy1977> is it a terribly bad idea?
<popey> yes
<popey> :)
<BigRedS> I think it should just ask how big a swap file you want somewhere along the way. I completely don't get the obsession with separate partitions for swap
<BigRedS> especially since we don't put anything else in separate partitions by default, and swap gains the least from being on its own
<popey> where would you put the swap file?
<willy1977> ahhh... swap partition/file = virtual memory I see!
<penguin42> popey: /
<BigRedS> Personally, probably just in  /. That's where mine are
<shauno> the idea always was that swap actually does gain a lot from being one contiguous region
<BigRedS> I don't know if thre's a fhs opinion on it or something
<shauno> swapd could be an interesting option one day.  it doesn't seem to react fast enough when things go wrong tho
<BigRedS> shauno: it is as a file, too; it's a contiguous file.
<penguin42> it's probably still the case that swap on a separate partition is faster; I'm also not sure the magic in hibernation
<popey> penguin42: its not
<BigRedS> Popular opinion seems to be that on a separate opinion 'makes sense' for some reson, as far as easily seeing what's going on
<BigRedS> But I think that, especially for new desktop users, everything-in-one-partition would be a handy thing to be able to do
<BigRedS> (and I suspect the seeing what's going on argument is based on the tradition of having a swap partiton)
<popey> it does make sense for people who upgrade RAM
<popey> who want/have to resize their swap space
<popey> although, i believe they're toying with the idea of hiding the hibernate option entirely in natty
<popey> because it's slow and rarely works
<BigRedS> I don't think I've ever resized a swap file, I suspect it's non-trivial (but the non-trivia can be done all behind the scenes)
<BigRedS> yeah, resuming from hibernate takes longer than a cold boot
<willy1977> hibernation is for bears...
<popey> hah
<BigRedS> hahaha
<gord> as long as the swap file doesn't dynamicly grow/shrink (except in explicit cases like memory size changing) i'v always felt that it makes more sense over a fixed partition
<willy1977> no matter the OS it's just painful in my experience anyhow...
<BigRedS> yeah, I thought it was unique to Linux, but then I tried it on a windows box and that was even worse
<BigRedS> I was happy :)
<gord> i have to use an sd card as a swap parition on this netbook, because you can't change the partition layout in order to create a swap partition inside it :(
 * BigRedS wanders off to file a wishlist bug
<BigRedS> argh. One day I'll get the hang of launchpad
<BigRedS> is Ubiquity the name of the installer?
<shauno> I'm not sure you can resize a swap file.  swapoff filename, change the filesize (however you like), mkswap & swapon it
<hamitron> is there not less overhead having the swap on a partition, because it is formated accordingly?
<popey> a swapfile is formatted accordingly internally
<hamitron> yeh, but it must still use ext4 or whatever the filesystem is?
<hamitron> it is like 2 layers of filesystems
<gord> the only additional overhead from a swapfile over a swap partition is potential fragmentation, otherwise after the first stat and file open, there is no additional overhead
<popey> arguably it shouldn't matter
<popey> you shouldn't be using it
<BigRedS> hamitron: no, the kernel doesn't use the fs
<hamitron> so how does ext fs know where each section of a file is?
<BigRedS> http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/7/7/326
<BigRedS> is the most succinct an explanation I've found.
<willy1977> so the has it's own map of the swap file locations etc.?
<willy1977> *the kernel
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> it accesses it essentially as it does a swap partition
<willy1977> that was nice and concise ;)
<hamitron> so in theory, a larger swap will mean using more memory?
<hamitron> on a linear relationship
<BigRedS> no?
<willy1977> I'd have thought you'd just need a start / end location address?
<willy1977> or similar
<BigRedS> yeah, assuming it's contiguous
<BigRedS> I suppose that if it's not you'd need a start and offset for each fragment
<hamitron> so a heavily fragmented would
<hamitron> if that is how it is done
<BigRedS> yeah, which is why you create the file at install time, or at least on a very young system
<willy1977> yup, and if you have to add to it, that's when the irk begins (which BigRedS  mentioned could be done behind the scenes :/)
<hamitron> think I'll just stick to a partition, easier
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> two answers there.  either don't add to it (you can create a second swapfile & use both), or fix the cause instead of the symptom, and find out why you've living in swap
<BigRedS> It just seems dumb that we've already moved all the other traditionally-separate-partitions onto the same as /, but the one with little technical merit in being separate is still an additional partiton
<gord> creating a second swap file and using both is fragmentating ;)
<BigRedS> shauno: the current argument for having swap at all is generally hibernation
<hamitron> BigRedS: you don't have seperate partitions?
<willy1977> and we've already established hiberantion is the devil.
<shauno> trying to expand an existing file is going to be fragmented too
<hamitron> is it sane to have no swap?
<BigRedS> hamitron: I do, but IIRC the installer defaults to most-in-one if not all-in-one?
<hamitron> then you have no swap fragmentation
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> hamitron: yeah, generally if you're using swap you've problems outside of the efficiency of swap
<shauno> I think a second swapfile on a lower priority would be saner than fragmenting your only swapfile
<BigRedS> and you should be fixing those rathe rthan optimising swap
<popey> depends on your definition of "using swap"
<BigRedS> yeah, and what the system is doing
<gord> shauno, actually no, if your using ext4 or such and just swapoff , make new larger swap file, swap on, you should be fine. its clever enough
<popey> using could mean "space allocated" or "blocks in/out per second"
<hamitron> blocks in/out is what matters
<BigRedS> gord: is that intelligence in ext4 or in mkswap?
<shauno> ext4 isn't clever at all :/  it just contains the fragmentation to roughly the same physically area of the disk
<gord> BigRedS, ext4 - using extents
<gord> if you say "i want a file and it will be this size" then it'll find the largest free space to put it in to avoid fragmentation
<hamitron> too complex
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> KISS and use a seperate partition
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> or drive
<hamitron> how good is ext4 when you run low on free space then?
<shauno> I'm not sure anything's good when you run low on disk :/
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> that explains why I always hurt then
<hamitron> I do try to store data on a different partition though
<hamitron> I refuse to budge from some old habbits
<hamitron> seperate /boot too :/
<hamitron> not even sure if there is any advantage for the boot partition now
<hamitron> just stops me getting greedy with the number of kernels I keep installed :)
 * brobostigon prods pitivi, ormight have to resort to using blender.
 * penguin421 yaawwwnns
<gord> brobostigon, does pitivi still not work well?
<shauno> hamitron: given your love for older machines, /boot may still be useful for you.  iirc it was a trick to make sure kernels lived without a given cylinder boundary from when harddrives were growing faster than bioses
<shauno> er, *live within
<brobostigon> gord: very badly. yes.
<hamitron> before the 1024th
<hamitron> yeh
<popey> gord: doesnt work at all for video from mant video cameras
<hamitron> redhat 6.0 was fine with LBA32 passed to lilo though
 * brobostigon uses blender insted, and gives up on pitivi
<hamitron> when you get kernel updates in ubuntu, does it automatically ask to remove the older ones eventually?
<popey> no
<hamitron> so what happens to a newb who doesn't know there is even such a thing as a kernel?
<matti> hamitron: He goes on the Internet and educate himself to the ranks of Jedi Master.
<matti> ;]
<directhex> hamitron, computer janitor will remove old kernels.
<gord> ugh that sucks
<hamitron> :))
<brobostigon> what is normal dvd framerate?
<hamitron> anyways, I'm gonna go do something useful, rather than look for problems that don't affect me
<popey> the issues done affect the newb user
<popey> newb users aren't tainted with legacy ways like creating /boot partitions
<brobostigon> a fresh unbiased mind.
<hamitron> I was thinking more having 500mb used with old kernels
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> 500MB is not worth thinking about
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> mr popey is wasteful
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> hardly
<hamitron> 500mb is huge
<popey> /dev/sda5             207G  138G   59G  71% /
<popey> i wouldn't notice
<penguin421> filling up /boot can be a real problem
<matti> /dev/sda1             251M   47M  192M  20% /boot
<shauno> I don't believe the installer recommends a /boot anymore?  so it's only a problem if you opt for it :)
<popey> exactly
<matti> I don't see a reason to keep bazillion old kernels. Current and previous is probably sensible.
<hamitron> could be a problem for something with a 160gb hard drive and 150gb of data
<matti> shauno: Not everyone does what installer recommends ;p
<hamitron> that 500mb is just....
<popey> delete stuff
<popey> don't be a hoarder
<hamitron> or you could delete unused kernels
<shauno> matti: understood :)  I just figure if you tell the installer you know better, then you gotta follow thru on that
<hamitron> maybe under some "system clean" or something
<shauno> that's what janitor is
<hamitron> where is that?
<shauno> (insert someone who uses gnome here)
<shauno> :)
<brobostigon> i have about 6 or 7 unused kernel on my eeepc right now, as i am experimenting with different kernel versions, for the gpu lockup/hang bug.
<matti> shauno: Janitor is -- in my opinion -- dangerous.
<shauno> matti: purging old kernels automatically isn't very safe either.  it's sane to keep trusted kernels around during upgrades.  it's less easy for the updater to evaluate 'trusted'
<directhex> 2.6.37 is evil! purge 2.6.37!
<AlanBell> going to start the screen reader install shortly
<matti> shauno: With things like dkms and other bits with do magic after you upgrade / downgrade the kernel.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: sorry, i wont be able to be there, i have things to sort out here,
<matti> shauno: A lot of things may break when you fall-back to previous kernel.
<matti> shauno: Binary closed source drivers are a good example.
<popey> they do?
<hamitron> I don't think automatic removel is good either, but some popup on reboot after kernel upgrade maybe?
<popey> yeah, would be nice if it kept a track of successful reboots
<shauno> they shouldn't :/  I'd expect dkms to put the new modules in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/, leaving previous versions untouched
<popey> and figured "You haven't used 2.6.old for 6 months, shall i remove it?"
<matti> shauno: That is not always the case.
<hamitron> exactly popey
<matti> shauno: I guess incremental kernel updates from mainstream Ubuntu are fine.
<hamitron> kernel tracker
<matti> shauno: But when you have something older and/or custom ... then things get messy.
<shauno> so if I install a new kernel, device x no longer functions as expected, I can't trust rolling back to the previous kernel to be a sane option?
<matti> shauno: It works in 90% of cases. But when it breaks you have to manually fix it.
<matti> shauno: But, being up to date, and running recent Ubuntu is probably not a problem...
<matti> shauno: I have older system, and things do break a lot. Especially when they back-port ...
<matti> Hah ;]
<hamitron> "Hah"? ;)
<hamitron> that just sounds childish :D
<matti> hamitron: Hehe.
<matti> hamitron: I am not really a grown up ;p
 * matti is running 9.10 ...
<matti> I guess this makes me quite out of date?
<matti> ;/
<hamitron> ATI drivers?
<matti> No, Ubuntu release.
<hamitron> why run 9.10?
<MartijnVdS> That makes you OLD :)
<hamitron> even I am upgrading to 10.04 now, and I am a stick in the mud
<hamitron> ;/
<matti> It does not look like 9.10 any more.
<matti> I have custom most of the things.
<screen-x> afternoon :)
<hamitron> how long does it have security updates?
<matti> MartijnVdS: I guess so.
<hamitron> or does it?
<hamitron> ;/
<matti> hamitron: I back-port when needed.
<hamitron> so what is your reason?
<matti> hamitron: I also have custom kernel.
<matti> hamitron: I can't be asked to put all these customizations back after new fresh install.
<matti> hamitron: It took me some time to get my notebook working as I like.
<matti> hamitron: Purely because I never have the time to do it.
<matti> hamitron: Keep posponing upgrades to ... "Maybe next week..." ;p
<hamitron> I understand that feeling
<hamitron> but that is why I use LTS releases ;)
<matti> hamitron: But then you want something more recent...
<matti> hamitron: So you mix and match and hack'n'slash things.
<shauno> you're stuck on 9.10? LTS _is_ more recent
<MartijnVdS> slightly
<matti> hamitron: And then you realise that it will be hard to port all of this onto something new ;p
<matti> shauno: Me or hamitron?
 * matti either builds his own or gets things from Squeeze.
<hamitron> matti: i'd have still put the effort into getting upto 10.04, then good for 3 years
<brobostigon> matti: so debian stable?
<hamitron> debian is hardly modern ;)
<matti> brobostigon: That is hard to say ;p
<hamitron> but I suppose, that is best thing about linux as a whole, you can do wtf you want
<brobostigon> matti: :)
<matti> brobostigon: I cannot really put what I've done under a common umbrella ;]
<matti> hamitron: Precisely ;]
<hamitron> still think you are crazy ;)
<brobostigon> matti: i know what you mean, after abasic cli install, i play about with things alot.
<matti> hamitron: :P
<matti> hamitron: I have my Mattinux, I guess.
<hamitron> dull, matt like
<hamitron> ;D
<brobostigon> matti: my natty install, is pretty much a botch between standerd natty and gnome3 and a few other bit and pieces.
<matti> Pfff ;p
<hamitron> !natty
<lubotu3> Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04, due April 28 2011. Help and support (only) in #ubuntu+1. Natty is unstable and is not intended for production systems.
<matti> brobostigon: :)
<hamitron> that is kinda new
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon> hamitron: i agree, i lived with debian sid/unstable for quite a while, so this is little risk compared,
<hamitron> yeh :)
<hamitron> well, I am still on debian 5.0
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> bug 748352
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 748352 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "broken partial network manager icon at top of screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748352
<dutchie> i see that occasionally
<dutchie> i think
<dutchie> oh no, i see something completely different
<AlanBell> bug 748359
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 748359 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Londo (Congo, Democratic Republic of The (general), Democratic Republic of the Congo) repeated three times in location listing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748359
<AlanBell> bug 748361
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 748361 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "firefox not default browser when clicking links in installer slideshow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748361
<penguin421> oh that one is fun
<Myrtti> what an epic day
<AlanBell> in what way Myrtti?
<Myrtti> lovely dreams during the night, then a bus ride to my apartment, there was British stuff being sold at the market and I got some nice stuff from there, then went to the nice food shop and got some salmon and rice for dindins, now I've got nice British tea in a nice British cuppa and saucer, nice vanilla pretzel with British lemon & ginger curd, watching Midsomer Murders on my lappy
<Myrtti> I can almost imagine being in UK now
<Myrtti> luvly
<AlanBell> so can I :)
<AlanBell> when do you come back?
<Myrtti> anytime after mum gets better and I learn to inject myself with Klexane
<Myrtti> :-(
<Myrtti> (in which "mum gets better" means "is in a condition I can allow myself not to worry about her 24/7")
<popey> bug 748384
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 748384 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) ""Warning" text is barely readbale, is too feint " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748384
<willy1977> what's next on the jam list?
<willy1977> scratch that just picked up AlanBell 's email update
<Myrtti> I recon I've soon drank almost a bucket of tea :-D
<MartijnVdS> Buckets of tea++
<matti> Nah.
<matti> Coffee \o/
<MartijnVdS> matti: heathen!
<matti> Haha
<BigRedS> coffee for productivity, tea for relaxing
<matti> ;]
<BigRedS> that's quite a manic grin you've got there
<matti> BigRedS: Just had coffee, that's why ;]
<BigRedS> ah yeah, that should've been a bit obvious :)
<matti> :>
<matti> Ah, such a nice day and I have to do my course work.
<matti> *twittttch*
<BigRedS> Haha, I'm working today :(
<BigRedS> Admittedly, from a bench in the garden :)
<shauno> I'm at the office, but it's all good because I've already filled today's crazy quota
<matti> Spare time seems like a luxury nowadays ;]
<shauno> not sure myself.  I mean, train-spotters still exist ..
<matti> Hahah
<matti> This reminded me about my friend from work... he uses every single spare minute to play WoW.
<shauno> that was me until not so long ago :/
<matti> Oh.
 * brobostigon needs to learn to use blenders video editing again.
<BigRedS> matti: I knew a guy who used every single spare minute from WoW to do work...
<BigRedS> that didn't last long
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Colleague managed to register a team for a 10 mile running event in September
<hamitron> :/
<BigRedS> Do the members know they're in the team?
<matti> LOL
<matti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfso7_i9Ko8
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Yes, everyone volunteered :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://damloop.nl/index.html
<matti> BigRedS: Oh dear.
<matti> BigRedS: This can be really life-wrecking if you don't know where to draw the line...
<Azelphur> Hmm, I had an sd card with guarentee from a seller on Amazon and it broke, I sent it back to them, it's been a month and I havn't heard from them
<Azelphur> :(
<BigRedS> matti: yeah, I've seen a couple of people completely fail to find the line
<matti> BigRedS: Yeah... They need to learn how to draw the line from the best...
<MartijnVdS> I know a few ex-WoW players who are now falling into the Minecraft trap
<matti> BigRedS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGF1NP-FrCU
<shauno> MartijnVdS: \o/
<matti> BigRedS: Picard will show them!
 * matti loves First Contact
<shauno> to be honest, I think that's why I'm loving minecraft.  I can pick it up, play it silly, and then put it down for weeks at a time
<shauno> instead of having expectations, schedules, people to let down, etc
<matti> LOL
<matti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2IJdfxWtPM
<matti> So British ;p
<zleap> how did the ubuntu jam, thing to today ?
<matti> I have no idea.
<AlanBell> zleap: we have been fixing wiki pages, filing bugs against Natty installer
<zleap> cool
<AlanBell> and I am just doing a runthrough of some of the Accessible installer options
<zleap> sounds good then
<AlanBell> and filing *masses* of bugs against that
<willy1977> AlanBell, you not doing that on mumble?
<AlanBell> willy1977: I did go through it on mumble
<willy1977> :/
<AlanBell> then turned mumble off and went through it doing a clean recording
<willy1977> poo
<willy1977> missed that then...
<AlanBell> well feel free to have a go in a VM or something on your machine
<AlanBell> I will upload my video later
<willy1977> I'll check out the vid - I just wonder what went on with mumble... hmmm
<AlanBell> can you hear me?
<willy1977> nope nowt...
<willy1977> I'll try reconnecting.
<AlanBell> I could hear you a bit
<willy1977> ok so can't connect again now...
<willy1977> must be my not so good connection then...
<AlanBell> say something
<AlanBell> hello to you too
<AlanBell> is your volume muted somewhere?
<willy1977> not that I can see... are you talking now?
<AlanBell> when I am red I am talking
<willy1977> that's just it you're little lips aren't going red anymore :(
<AlanBell> ok, next session at 8PM
<AlanBell> going through the election process and getting that ready for the wiki page
<DJones> Evening all
<Azelphur> Anyone know a good ADSL modem that'll just do PPPoE from a cable router?
<Azelphur> ADSL2+ modem, rather
<MartijnVdS> uhm
<MartijnVdS> Why not buy a PPPoE "normal" router then?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: because I have a Linksys WRT610n with DD-WRT
<Azelphur> and it's very nice.
<MartijnVdS> Get a Fritz!Box 7340, it can switch from DSL to 3G if connection drops :)
<Azelphur> so can my router
<Azelphur> I'm not decomissioning my Â£120 Linux router :p
<Azelphur> all I need is a modem and it's good to go :D
<shauno> \o/ home!
<AlanBell> http://blip.tv/file/4967179
<shauno> I'd be curious to see someone go thru that without the screen
<shauno> I really don't like that it's reading out 'underscore' everywhere.  it's reading out the name of the element?
<AlanBell> yeah, it is a bit nasty
<AlanBell> I have done it without looking at the screen in Lucid
<shauno> not sure how it works on gnome; is there any hinting in the dialog that should suggest content to orca?
<AlanBell> well kind of, try running orca and see what it does
<AlanBell> there is an app which shows all the accessibilty events and hints
<AlanBell> !info accerciser
<lubotu3> accerciser (source: accerciser): an interactive Python accessibility explorer for the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.11.1-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 1371 kB, installed size 4232 kB
<shauno> I'll have to take a prod at that after dinner
<shauno> I did the voiceover install on osx, thanks to the screen on my laptop being duff.  there was a single page that tripped me up.  not convinced I could have done the same with that walk thru
<shauno> seems it'd have made more sense if it just read out the fields we see, rather than .. wherever it's getting underscore from all the time
<shauno> I had one step that turned out to be a progress bar.  but it didn't tell me that.  nor did it read out the "now doing stuff" header.  having absolutely zero feedback was incredibly frustrating
<willy1977> Yeah, that's not so hot is it...
<DJones> Sucess, new laptop, ubuntu installed, /me sits back to install useful apps now
<ali1234> it strikes me that an install using debian-installer might work a lot better with a screen reader than a fancy GUI method
<AlanBell> ali1234: yes, it probably would
<HazRPG> *pokes*
<HazRPG> seems I went from going for some food to actually sleeping on the sofa >_< lol
<czajkowski> Aloha
<ali1234> hmm re: keyboard layout, do blind people have braille keyboards or are they all expert touch typers?
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski
<AlanBell> ali1234: they are *amazing* touch typists generally
<AlanBell> but braille keyboards exist too
<ali1234> in the case of touch typing, all the questions about detecting kb layout are irrelevant
<AlanBell> yes, it is pretty useless, just confusing if you end up in that section by accident
<HazRPG> czajkowski: howdy
<hamitron> omg, why do you always have problems when you are relying on someone else?
<hamitron> :/
 * hamitron headbutts wall
<AlanBell> czajkowski: have you been car shopping?
<HazRPG> hamitron: Hmm?
<hamitron> my vps is broken
<BigRedS> I'm after a way of debugging some PHP that's apparently not executing the SQL it should be without having to touch the code. Something like a PHP extension that gives me better logging? Anyone got any suggestions?
<hamitron> my node had updates on 29th, and now loads of hassle
<HazRPG> hmm, seems I missed the natty install, but I do have like 6hrs worth of audio xD
<czajkowski> AlanBell: nope
<czajkowski> relaxing resting
<czajkowski> not able to move
<czajkowski> and now fighting with machine
<shauno> BigRedS: if you can change .htaccess, http://perishablepress.com/press/2008/01/14/advanced-php-error-handling-via-htaccess/  may be useful.  there's a lot of errorlevel & debug flags you can pass thru apache
<BigRedS> shauno: Ah. I'm trying to work out why code that works under Apache/mod_php appears to not under lighttpd/cgi
<shauno> now that sound fun.  have you compared the output of phpinfo() between the two?
<BigRedS> shauno: yeah. I've rebuilt the cgi binary to match the configure options as closely as possible, and the php.ini is just a cp of the tree apache uses
<shauno> may give clues if there's different capabilities listed  (or indeed, if they're pointing to different php.ini's)
<BigRedS> I've just thought of pointing lighttpd to the same php as apache's using just to test
<BigRedS> why didn't that occur to me before?
<BigRedS> still, I do need it working under lighttpd and a non-dpkg php
<HazRPG> does audacity convert ogg to wave or something? I Just got a messaging saying I've run out of space on /
<AlanBell> audacity will uncompress the ogg into memory
<shauno> that could still cause problems with a 6-hour ogg
<HazRPG> 6hr ogg was fine...
<HazRPG> because gotta remember its got blank spaces in between
<HazRPG> it just didn't like me putting in ALL the ogg's I have
<HazRPG> (one channel for each person)
<shauno> silences are only cool when they're compress.  if that's in pcm/wave in memory, that's going to be .. expensive
<gord> HazRPG, yeah it pretty much converts to wav and puts it in /tmp
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UUKElectionProcess messing with this at the moment
<shauno> 22k mono's going to be roughly 2.5meg/minute?  so 6 hours would be 900Mb per person.   3600Mb per if it's 44k stereo.  you're likely to run into some real limits of how many channels you can mux that way
<HazRPG> I see
<HazRPG> I knew I should have given /tmp its own partitions xD
<ali1234> audacity converts everything you add to the project to pcm for fast editing
<ali1234> it uses some custom file format for it
<exobuzz> HazRPG, just mount it elsewhere ?
<shauno> I wonder if you could do it with whatever the audiodaemon-de-jour is.  'play' a bunch of files at once, and point the output at | oggenc
<HazRPG> exobuzz: hmm, never thought of that
<shauno> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/man1/oggz-merge.1.html     this could be interesting
<shauno> "Similarly,  using  oggz-merge on a collection of Ogg Vorbis audio files will create a big  Ogg  file  with  all  the  songs  in  parallel,  ie. interleaved  for  simultaneous playback
<shauno> (no promises, it's a google result not experience)
<exobuzz> anyone here used unity 2d ? i might be being stupid but i cant work out how to add a new application to it heh
<exobuzz> pretty unstable still. well i guess its still wip
<willy1977> exobuzz, definitely wip... I went back to classic :)
<exobuzz> yeh. shame though since it could work well on this touchscreen device
<exobuzz> i need to work out how to switch on compositing even though im using unity 2d too
<exobuzz> seems that  its not advised/tested to run unity2d compiz. seems a mistake - they are assuming if you can run compiz then unity 3d will work, but there are gfxcards/drivers that compiz works but unity 3d doesnt
<exobuzz> like the o2 joggler
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Elections does that look OK?
<AlanBell> daubers: ^^
<czajkowski> why do ye mention the LCoC and the CoC ?
<czajkowski> or snippets of it?
<daubers> AlanBell: Perfect :)
<daubers> czajkowski: Sets the scene
<AlanBell> czajkowski: because we don't have fixed terms
<czajkowski> AlanBell: perhaps a way then would be to have a fixed term
<czajkowski> say 2 cycles = 1 year
<czajkowski> would encourage more people to take part and step up
<daubers> czajkowski: We struggled for volunteers in the last round... that sounds like a heap of trouble :)
<czajkowski> yeah we did
<czajkowski> because we let the leadership go on for a long time
<czajkowski> perhaps forcing people to step up might be a way to get more involvement tbh
<daubers> czajkowski: Also, since yu'd be changinging the status quo, it'd have to go to a meeting and what not to be approved. Can't just write it in now
<daubers> czajkowski: Also, those two paragraphs help put people in mind that they should step down gracefully
<czajkowski> yes but it just seems ilogical tbh that you just elect a leader and when and if they get bored snad step down you go through this process.
<czajkowski> daubers: trust me I've seen those two paragprahs used to get people to step down and it usually ends up the loco council having to step in
<daubers> We haven't really ever had a problem with it (historically)
<AlanBell> not neccessarily
<AlanBell> czajkowski: you only see the times when you have to step in
<willy1977> surely though uuk is a global domination  outfit run by someone in a secret volcano island?
<AlanBell> if it works properly you wouldn't know about it
<AlanBell> willy1977: quite right
 * AlanBell sits in a big chair stroking a chicken
<daubers> AlanBell: I can actually picture that quite vividly...
<Pendulum> could you be having issues getting volunteers *because* people think it could be a multi-year commitment?
<nigelb> AlanBell: I dunno why, but I can picture it quite clearly.
<AlanBell> we didn't have issues getting volunteers
<czajkowski> AlanBell: daubers I'm just saying it may be a case that leaving the leadership term so long  people dont wnat to step on toes or know when they can step up
<willy1977> equally could you have problems getting volunteers because it definitely is a fixed term?
<czajkowski> just doesnt seem right . sorry.
<AlanBell> we got one quite easily, and it was uncontested
<czajkowski> AlanBell: yup and perhaps had we a fixed term people cna say ok, well I'm busy now but at least in  years time I can put myself forward
<daubers> czajkowski: I'm happy for a discussion and what not too happen around the issue. Hoever, I have no strong feeling on the issue at all
<czajkowski> nods
<willy1977> czajkowski, I think you're making fair points how about we put it on the meeting agend for the next one? or something like that?
<HazRPG> hmm that was odd
<HazRPG> I hope I don't see that again!
<willy1977> what AlanBell stroking his chicken?
<HazRPG> almost didn't come back onto the internet then
<HazRPG> ironically, I had an ipv6 though xD
<AlanBell> I don't mind fixed terms, however I do think the "step down gracefully" thing is a viable alternative to fixed terms
<AlanBell> willy1977: I have pet chickens
<HazRPG> ipv4 decided to die, and all the internet with it
<czajkowski> AlanBell: that assumes the person will get tired and step down, what about peoplemnitchying to help out and lead
<czajkowski> this is no reflection on you
<czajkowski> just I think having no set time is a bit well... daft
<AlanBell> and bond villains stroke cats
<willy1977> AlanBell: I got it ;) do you have some layers?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: maybe in a few years time someone like you or popey will have a quiet word with me and point out it is time to go
<czajkowski> who knows
<BigRedS> you can quite easily emulate no-fixed-terms by a) re-electing the same guy again because he's good and b) letting him step down early and elect a replacement
<AlanBell> willy1977: yes, three of them
<czajkowski> anyways battery is about to die and I need to go and rest
<AlanBell> not laying that well at the moment
<DJones> Does anybody know why a dual core processor shows up as having 4 cores under system monitor
<AlanBell> I keep telling them they have to step up production or it will be chicken tikka massala night at our house
<AlanBell> DJones: dual core hyperthreaded
<DJones> AlanBell: Thanks, that explains it, I didn't think the i3's were quad core
<BigRedS> yeah, the kernel's bad at telling the difference between hyperthreading and genuine different cores
<willy1977> kind of like "I don't want to be a pie, I don't like gravy?" any idea what may be causing the girls to ... err... you know.
<DJones> I must add the laptop to the hardware database
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: someone on the radio was talking about that earlier in the week, Gardener's Question Time possibly
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: "More eggs, or less hens!"
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: yes, there was a programme about it last week, I was at a customer at the time
<AlanBell> wonder if it is on the web somewhere
<willy1977> oh wasn't that on radio 4?
<AlanBell> yup
<DJones> AlanBell: Did you see that new open source licence "CDL - Chicken Dance Licence" when I read about it, I thought of you
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00zsdsb
<AlanBell> I did DJones!
<willy1977> AlanBell: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00zsdsb/Attila_the_Hen/
<willy1977> ah ok.
<willy1977> :)
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: that looks like it
<d3ngar_> ChanServ Help
<d3ngar_> AUTH
<d3ngar_> !AUTH
<AlanBell> d3ngar_: not here!
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: although I'm sure GQT was talking about it too - I often only get to hear odd bits of shows as I go from site to site
<AlanBell> d3ngar_: /msg chanserv help
<d3ngar_> AlanBell: thx
<willy1977> gordonjcp: Yeah, I'm the same, although I don't do as much lately.
<willy1977> tavelling I mean.
<d3ngar_> AlanBell: What is the AUTH command?
<AlanBell> !register
<lubotu3> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<AlanBell> info in there somewhere
<willy1977> are you trying to register your nick?
<d3ngar_> No
<d3ngar_> I registered it already
<willy1977> I'll shut up then :D
<AlanBell> d3ngar_: ah, I see your problem
<AlanBell> !ghost
<lubotu3> If you own an IRC nick that is currently being used, you can make it change nicks by typing: /msg nickserv release <nick> <password> | If you have a dead (ghost) connection, you can make it quit by typing: /msg nickserv ghost <nick> <password> | further help in #freenode
<d3ngar_> Just this client is new and I can't remember how to authenticate
<AlanBell> freenode things d3ngar is still logged on
<AlanBell> thinks
<willy1977> and once that is cleared you should be able to identify with /msg nickserv identify <password>
<d3ngar_> good stuff
 * AlanBell is enjoying atilla the hen
<willy1977> think I'm finally there with me new blog :)
<AlanBell> willy1977: url?
<willy1977> http://www.leemwilliams.co.uk
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org/planet/ add it there and it will go on planet.ubuntu-uk.org
<willy1977> done
<AlanBell> so i tis
<AlanBell> nice theme
<Daviey> HazRPG, I can haz sage.
<willy1977> I'm not a designer so I have doctored that to work for me, have only tried it in FF4 though... must try it in IE when I get a chance there's a min-height which I think will cause IE to spit it's dummy out...
<shauno> I'm a rather fat feathery owl called Sage ...
<Azelphur> Daviey: btw we're all still having fun in the waiting for an invoice from Daviey club :p
<Daviey> :o
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> it's an awesome club, been established for 3 years now? :D
<Myrtti> meh, why do I always get hungry at the most unconvinient times
<Myrtti> (notice no questionmark)
<shauno> yummy.  I get to build my own mutt.  sigh.
<mgdm> the ones in the pet shop not good enough?
 * mgdm runs
<BigRedS> they're non-free; you can't take them apart, modify them, then put them back together again
<BigRedS> well, you *can*, but they never work afterwards
<shauno> you can hardly blame the pet shop for a faulty compiler
<shauno> ugh, using slang instead of ncurses just brings a different set of bugs
 * daubers gets his CSS beating stick out of the cupboard
 * willy1977 hides just in case...
 * penguin42 thinks he can play most of 'Wargames' from memory by now
<matti> Hah.
 * penguin42 just watched it again; nice way to relax after having been at u^3 all day
<zleap> yay i got that on video somewhere (wargames)
<willy1977> how about a game global thermo nuclear war?
<willy1977> *of
<zleap> yes
<zleap> how about a nice game of chess
<zleap> ?
<willy1977> probably for the best...
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i found a dos game called globa nuclear war once
<zleap> i managed to accidently shoot down a missile over london :(
<willy1977> oops
<zleap> well russia sent a icbm towards me and i launched an intecept missile thing,
<zleap> so that was 7m killed, then 250m which was the pop of russia
<zleap> it was more text based than graphical
<zleap> its odd those old games as it gives you names of cities at the time which of course have changed now, and countries of course,
<exobuzz> not the wargames game but this one was fun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_War_%28video_game%29
<zleap> Ronnie Raygun lol
<zleap> spooky that the 3 rd and 4th character in the list are like still around and in the same postition as 1985
<andylock1an> howdy all
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-03
<shauno> http://www.extrastores.com/ImagesSections/Gallery/Flayers/3232011FLY/6.H.jpg
<shauno> this made me giggle.  poor, poor windows mobile
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> is it actually that bad? ;/
<shauno> no idea, I'm not aware of anyone who's paid for it yet.  but that's actually a legit flyer from a retailer :/
<hamitron> wp7 does have a few advantages
<hamitron> well, at least 1
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> no, 2 I can think off
<hamitron> of*
<shauno> exchange integration, apparently ;)
<hamitron> that isn't one ;/
<hamitron> imo it will be better for developers, a more generic platform to target.... unlike android
<hamitron> plus, I suspect so few people will get it, not many virus will be written to exploit it
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> I've heard a few people say good things having used win mobile 7
<BigRedS> it does sounds quite interesting
<hamitron> I would be tempted, if I was in the market for a smart phone
<hamitron> windows 7 for pc does actually feel good
<hamitron> MS have actually impressed me for once
<shauno> haven't tried it yet :/
<hamitron> I pre-ordered it, got a retail copy for 45 quid
<hamitron> I didn't want to at the time, was hoping wine would improve faster
<hamitron> but I was just overly optimistic
<hamitron> so now I've decided, gonna just run most stuff natively
<hamitron> linux is better for work, windows is better for games
<hamitron> talking of games, gonna install my entire collection on steam
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> heh.  that's one thing I'm not so much looking forward to with new laptop
<hamitron> why?
<shauno> long & boring download
<hamitron> oh, I backed up the downloads on my fileserver
<hamitron> can't be downloading 70Gb too often
<shauno> anyhow, back in a while.  rebooting to take a crack at gnome3's livecd, because I haven't even peeked at gnome-shell yet
<hamitron> okies :
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> I still have cravings for gnome 1.x :/
<penguin42> wth does Google have an ice cream sundae as it's logo today?
<shauno> it's sunday \o/  ?
<hamitron> they like to spend money wisely, offering different logo images to attract idiots...errrrr customers
<shauno> I appear to have done horrible, horrible things to my filesystem :D
<BigRedS> that's a good thing?
<shauno> no, not really
<BigRedS> Ah, I suspected as much :(
<shauno> done a pretty good job of it this time tho.  EFI just hangs when it tries to read the partition table
<BigRedS> Oh. That is rather horrible
<BigRedS> You've just put me off doing a dist-upgrade on the fileserver at my dad's
<BigRedS> well, starting it now and going to bed
<shauno> :D
<shauno> this thing's always refused to boot from usb, and my dvd drive got destroyed by someone's demonspawn a few years back
<shauno> so I thought I'd try dd'ing an iso to a spare partition
<BigRedS> ahhh
<shauno> just on the off chance that it'd pick it up as a bootable fs
<shauno> apple have been bitten by the oldest curse.  we just keep making better idiots :D
<BigRedS> yeah, I've tried that sort of thing once. It doesn't :(
<BigRedS> haha
<shauno> hm.  I don't appear to have an external caddy that'll take sata
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> I think for now, bed, and pick up a caddy from work tomorrow.  if I keep at this, chances are I'll just fluff her laptop too
<BigRedS> bah. usb/sata things are invaluable
<shauno> got a really handy firewire one, but it's only ide.  I should update that one of these eons
 * hamitron lacks usb toys
<hamitron> got an internal sata hd caddy though
<BigRedS> haha, yeah. my sata one is one of the ide ones with sata sort of tacked on as an afterthought
<BigRedS> anyway, I'm falling asleep here, so I should probably go and do that in a bed...
<d3ngar> Hi there
<hamitron> evening
<d3ngar> I can't connect to the computers within a VPN connection: that said, I can ping both computers from the host, but the two computers can't see one another. They both see the host though
<d3ngar> I think it's a routing problem, only I know nothing about it
<d3ngar> Any help?
<em> isn't it ridiculously late in the uk ?
<d3ngar> Saturday?
<hamitron> i dunno I'm afraid, can wait around and see if anyone is still awake
<hamitron> or try #ubuntu
<hamitron> :)
<d3ngar> :)
<d3ngar> I might
<hamitron> an hour a go I may have researched
<hamitron> but I'd be a liability now I am tired (even more than normal)
<HazRPG> Daviey: you haz sage?
<HazRPG> morning all
<MartijnVdS> morning
<MartijnVdS> AAGH
<MartijnVdS> compiz seems to "forget" some windows
<MartijnVdS> so they disappear (app is still running)
<MartijnVdS> Switching to metacity makes them show up again
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: \o/
<HazRPG> oh
<HazRPG> that's bad
<MartijnVdS> I think it's but 719001
<HazRPG> hmm, see I keep seeing metacity, what is it >_<
<MartijnVdS> I think it's bug 719001
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 719001 in compiz (Ubuntu) "vim.gnome window is invisible" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/719001
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: metacity is "The" gnome window manager
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (not 3D-accelerated)
<HazRPG> ah :)
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> compiz is just the fancy effects :)
<HazRPG> (essentially)
<MartijnVdS> And a completely different window management "engine" underneath
<MartijnVdS> The metacity one is much more mature
<HazRPG> indeed
<MartijnVdS> Hm. Sunday morning. Let's try XFCE :)
<HazRPG> what's beryl (I think its called)
<HazRPG> is that like a plugin to compiz
<HazRPG> I recall seeing that like years ago when compiz was "new"
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Beryl was a fork of compiz with even more flashy effects
<MartijnVdS> it merged back into main compiz afaik
<HazRPG> ah
<AlanBell> the original compiz didn't accept contributions and was coded in private with occasional code drops
<HazRPG> wonder if summer of code has anything interesting planned for this year
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ah yes, along with XGL
<HazRPG> AlanBell: morning :)
<AlanBell> so it got forked and a large and active community quickly made beryl rather awesome, if a bit flaky
<AlanBell> then the compiz developers decided to do open source properly and they all made friends and lived happily ever after
<MartijnVdS> Now compiz is still a bit flaky at times
<AlanBell> it was called compiz-fusion for a while whilst re-merging
<MartijnVdS> especially if some company starts hacking its own stuff into it ;)
<AlanBell> very true
<MartijnVdS> Has everyone seen the cool WebGL at http://bodybrowser.googlelabs.com/ ?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: ah, that was going to be my next question... because I recall seeing compiz/beryl disappear and then compiz-fusion suddenly came on the scene
<MartijnVdS> (it's still in April Fools mode, but you can click through to "normal" humans easily)
<HazRPG> I must say, at the time, I was planning on integrating compiz to ubuntu when it was new, but got so confused as to how, and why there was beryl and compiz variations
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I have :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah wait, I haven't seen the cow one... I've seen one of a human being
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it does male and female now.. and cow 8-)
<HazRPG> the male and female was there originally :P (or at least female was)
<MartijnVdS> female was, yes
<HazRPG> I recall linking it in facebook :P
<MartijnVdS> It helped my mom tell the doctor which bit of her back was hurting :)
<HazRPG> heh awesome
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 14th April 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz: 16th April 21:00 | Happy Birthday Popey (he is very old)
<AlanBell> actually that is tomorrow
<AlanBell> skype was lying to me
<HazRPG> ?
<HazRPG> do any of you guys integrate google calendar into evolution so that it shows up in the panels calendar?
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 14th April 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz: 16th April 21:00 | Happy Birthday issyl0 (not very old)
<HazRPG> I've noticed that now it takes a while from clicking, to actually showing up since I've done that :(
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I used to.. but I've reinstalled since
<MartijnVdS> never bothered to set it up again
<HazRPG> right time for a quick nap been a long day ^_^
<HazRPG> I think I might have converted another person to ubuntu last night :D
<HazRPG> as always, I've installed ubuntu whilst in windows (wubi) so that they can have a play around with it and get to grips with it... yet fallback to windows if needs be
<HazRPG> (Usually set ubuntu as the default options, and set the timer to 1min, that way they've got the option but at least it does actually encourage them to use ubuntu more often too)
<HazRPG> hopefully if she likes it, I might get to geekify it (as she calls it) and change it over fully :)
<HazRPG> she was having a bit of trouble understanding the whole "no real virus" part of it
<HazRPG> she kept saying "I don't want to install dodgy software on it" and I told her she doesn't need to worry about most of that, as long as she uses the software centre
<AlanBell> there is a bug about dodgy software in the software centre
<HazRPG> AlanBell: oh?
<AlanBell> different people have different thresholds of dodgyness
<HazRPG> she meant dodgy as in "random toolbars", "things that give you pop ups all the time", "viruses" etc
<HazRPG> where her examples
<HazRPG> were*
<AlanBell> !info pornview
<lubotu3> pornview (source: pornview): Image and movie viewer/manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2pre1-11ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 211 kB, installed size 624 kB
<AlanBell> there was a recent discussion about that one
<HazRPG> wow that managed to get accepted onto the software centre!
<HazRPG> I thought the repo was managed (sort of)
<BigRedS> It is managed...
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I thought so
<HazRPG> BigRedS: Did you manage to read through my post yet btw? Still awaiting some sort of feedback for it, since I know it worked on mine... however it might not on others (different configurations, etc) and want to make sure everything is outlined and easy to understand for all (that is my main goal with it)
<HazRPG> I've probably mentioned a few times now, but I would like to (at some point) make some videos for doing all of these things I learn so that others can learn them too (blogging about them is the first step imo :))
<BigRedS> HazRPG: nah, I meant to this weekend, but other things broke so I've been fixing them instead so far :(
<HazRPG> BigRedS: ah, its no problem
<HazRPG> hmmm... always worries me to see "Windows" show up in my site logs :/
<HazRPG> esp. IE6 and WinNT4
<BigRedS> haha
<HazRPG> /2009/03/28/songbird/ seems to be a popular thread for some reason, and yet no one posts any comments or any rates... and they always seem to be windows users with old machines, old browsers... and also found trying other various directories that don't exist... it's a scary thought
<HazRPG> hmm I didn't realise you could get Safari for Linux :/ (looking at logs with a keen eye)
<BigRedS> I don't think you can. But it's trivial to change your user agent in firefox :)
<HazRPG> true
<BigRedS> well, change your reported user agent
<HazRPG> rofl, apparently a google search for "Me haz shiney..." pointed to my blog xD
<Unnheulu> How do I stop xchat from automatically joining this channel?
<HazRPG> Unnheulu: What's wrong with this channel :(
<Unnheulu> HazRPG, too many people talking :P
<HazRPG> hmm, not really lol
<HazRPG> not as much as #ubuntu
<Unnheulu> More than #wesnoth or #xmot
<BigRedS> er, it's buried somewhere in the preferences, I know I found it last time I used xchat
<Unnheulu> *xmoto
<BigRedS> but I've not got a ubuntu gui handy at the minute
<Unnheulu> irssi? :P
<BigRedS> Yeah, this is irssi on debian, but debian's xchat is quite different from ubuntu's
<HazRPG> I have have to change my robots.txt file
<HazRPG> might*
<BigRedS> ah, to avid being at that search term?
<willy1977> morning
<BigRedS> I wonder if there's a way to negate keywords
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> that and I've never heard of Yandex until I saw it being crawled about a few hundred times on April 1st
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> there does seem to be a weird multiplying of little search engines
<BigRedS> which is nice
<HazRPG> how so?
<BigRedS> well, just the fact that people think they're bringing something unique along; implies at least some innovation's going on
<BigRedS> even if most of that innovation is probably "We're not as evil as the big guys"
<HazRPG> heh good point
<HazRPG> I must say, its interesting to see how my blog is actually being looked at now
<HazRPG> I'm just use to seeing spiders and crawlers all the time, and on average 1-2 visits (a week)
<BigRedS> yeah, i _very_ rarely see any visitors that aren't me. Though I don't think I've updated it in several months...
<BigRedS> you're on the planet aren't you?
<HazRPG> I am now yeah
<BigRedS> I image that'll get you a bunch more spiders and real-life hits
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> that's where the Yandex came from I'm guessing
<daubers> Morning
<HazRPG> daubers: morning :)
<BigRedS> Hm. I think I've just seen the world's shortest ad break. I didn't even have time to get up to go and make coffee, let alone make the coffee
<HazRPG> BigRedS: what was it for?
<BigRedS> The ad was for TV on More4. I'm watching Scrapheap Challenge on More4 now.
<BigRedS> it went to break, showed a single ad, then went back to the show
<HazRPG> heh nice
<HazRPG> you know... I actually watched a BBC channelf for the first time in years, because my friend and I were talking about adverts - and he raised an interesting thought - for years I thought BBC had adverts just like any other channel, but it actually doesn't! The things they show are all just BBC related
<BigRedS> ah, I'm the opposite; nearly everything I watch is BBC
<HazRPG> same, but on iPlayer
<HazRPG> and I raised the topic by saying "hmm, how come iPlayer never has any adverts on it?"
<BigRedS> yeah; most of what I watch is catch-up-TV
<BigRedS> haha!
<HazRPG> and he just looked at me in that weird way he does... and point with both fingers shouting "because the BBC doesn't show adverts!"
<HazRPG> I thought he was winding me up because it was april fools... but he's actually right
<HazRPG> just goes to show how the mind will just zone out when your use to it being done one way on other similar things that you just instantly assume all are the same
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<HazRPG> although this is too early in the morning for psycho. bable :P
<HazRPG> still find it amazing
<BigRedS> I just soaked myself in washing out the cafetiere
<BigRedS> I think that's a pretty good indication that I need the coffee that's in it now :)
<HazRPG> heh indeed
<HazRPG> *lugs some coffee he made earlier*
<HazRPG> hmm I should buy me a cafetiere...
<BigRedS> hah, speaking of adverts, this one's almost a documentary
<BigRedS> yeah, cafetieres are handy. You make one coffee, get two cups :)
<BigRedS> well, two mugs. A 'cup' in coffee is tiny
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> mug = champion :)
<willy1977> caretiere++
<willy1977> *caffetiere
<willy1977> think I need coffee :p
 * daubers is reducing his caffeine intake, so no coffee this morning
<BigRedS> I think I'm back down to decaff weekdays and caffeinated weekends
<HazRPG> I don't see the point in that lol
<HazRPG> what's so wrong with caffeine :)
<Gary> ICANHASCOFFEE
<HazRPG> beats a pint any day
<BigRedS> It's fine normally, but it's easy to get to the point where there's a dependence on it
<HazRPG> coff:ee::1
<BigRedS> and at that point you need something stronger when 'just' a coffee doesn't wake you up
<HazRPG> BigRedS: really?
<BigRedS> also, you get _really_ bad sleep when you drink that much coffee
<Gary> I just cooked myself a lovely fry up, omnomnom
<BigRedS> yeah, I used to drink ~6 cups a day, and at the weekends I was useless without at least two or three
<Gary> I'm useless no matter how many I drink
<BigRedS> it's weird, you go without caffeine for a few weeks, then have a coffee, and actually get that caffeine high!
<HazRPG> see I find coffee doesn't ever do anything for me, I just like the taste
<willy1977> HazRPG: it's having more of a physiological effect than you think probably.
<HazRPG> probably
<daubers> HazRPG: To see whats so bad with caffeine, don't have any for 3 days and watch the headaches, dizzyness and nausea wash over you :)
<daubers> HazRPG: Your body will start chewing through it's salt reserves and energy reserves to try and make up the loss. It's not pleasant
<HazRPG> daubers: I've went from having caffeine almost every day ... to completely stopping for 6 weeks (since I hear that's how long it takes to get it out of your system) and I noticed no change
<daubers> HazRPG: How many cups of coffee do you have a day?
<daubers> Did you have in a day, rather :)
<Gary> I try to only have four a day, stop drinking coffee after 2pm
<daubers> I was on about 7 or 8 over the last month
<HazRPG> depends, sometimes 1 sometimes 10... I have no consistency with it, its just a "ooo... I think I'll make a coffee"
<Gary> I was silly and had one at 10pm yesterday, I was like a hamster all night
<HazRPG> moment
<HazRPG> however other caffeinated beverages I tend to drink more of, but like I said I've managed to go 6 weeks without (also, didn't have sugar, nor smoke in that time and instead drank cranberry - my other fav drink)... and no change
<HazRPG> in fact, people started forcing me to drink some form of caffeine to calm me down because I'm usually very hyper by nature
<BigRedS> mm, I notice no change when I stop the caffeine
<BigRedS> it's when I have some again that I do. It suddenty has some noticeable, positive effect
<HazRPG> BigRedS: only works if you stop for 6 weeks or more, depends how dependant your body has become to it... and how much you drink
<HazRPG> my friend said the doctor recommended he shouldn't have it for about 2 months to get it out of his system
<BigRedS> yeah, that's the other thing, I only have two or three cups a day now
<HazRPG> I know people who genuinely can't live without it though, and I find it hard to believe... but I've seen it happen, and its strange that it doesn't affect me in the same way (considering its almost part of my daily routine)
<BigRedS> yeah, my dad can't really
<HazRPG> heh my dad's the same
<BigRedS> he has coffee before he goes to bed...
<HazRPG> BigRedS: ... hmm I do!
 * daubers had to give up caffeine the first time when he went on antidepressants
<daubers> That time _really_ hurt!
<HazRPG> I can imagine!
<daubers> HazRPG: Also explains why it stops you being hyper, as caffeine is a natural depressant
<HazRPG> daubers: really?
<daubers> HazRPG: So all the antidepressant books told me
<daubers> HazRPG: same as alcohol
<HazRPG> I'm always more cheery when I've had me some caffeine...
<daubers> living on the high :)
<HazRPG> daubers: oh I know alcohol is, reason I try to avoid the stuff
<daubers> Before the low kicks in
<HazRPG> heh, usually fall asleep before the low kicks in
<HazRPG> also the reason why I find it daft how so many people drink alcohol in large quantities (based on medical quantities that's allowed per week), and wonder why they're always feeling down
<daubers> heh :)
<daubers> I try and be a bit careful about things with that kind of effect after previous experiences
<daubers> One of the reasons cake is so awesome is that after a sugar high you just feel tired
<HazRPG> usually the words "but I feel confident, and good about myself, and etc" as excuses ... always amuses me no end, because people clearly have no idea how they act when pissed :P
<willy1977> someone mention cake?
<HazRPG> I heard cake o/
<willy1977> onomnomnom
<HazRPG> daubers: chocolate cake is even better ;)
<willy1977> chocolate coffee cake... :) ahem.
<HazRPG> daubers: all the lovelies of sugar, plus the nicity nice effects of coco ;)
<HazRPG> willy1977: omg that's the future!
<HazRPG> :D
<HazRPG> or is it cocoa?
<HazRPG> I know what I mean :)
<BigRedS> Hah, while I was redundant and unemployed I discovered a taste for chocolate coated coffee beans
<BigRedS> those are awesome
<willy1977> HazRPG: a friend does a mean one but I'm like daubers (keep taking the pills :))
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I shall have to look out for that :P
<HazRPG> willy1977: ah
<HazRPG> so are you not allowed to have caffeine at all? Or just really small quantities?
<Gary> I got so drunk last night at a friends, woke up at 2am on their sofa!
<willy1977> HazRPG: I think it's more just recommendations...
<Gary> can't remember falling asleep, but they'd covered me in a blanket!  awww
<HazRPG> Gary: hehe
<willy1977> Gary: been there man ;) or you wake up with a coat over you :p
<Gary> the sofa was not that comfy, so I waddled home
<HazRPG> Gary: don't think I would get off so lightly around my friends... I'd probably get covered in sharpie drawings, or worse
<Gary> HazRPG: I did check once I got home
<HazRPG> Gary: haha
<Gary> I did expect to have a giant penis drawn on my forehead
<HazRPG> I know one of my friends walks around with a sharpie in his pocket at all times
<Gary> scary friends
<Gary> funny enough, no headache this morning
<HazRPG> \o/ always a bonus!
<Myrtti> hm, that was nice
<Myrtti> had my first ever passionfruit
<willy1977> passionfruit is nice ;)
<HazRPG> can't say I've ever had that before
<HazRPG> although I wouldn't be surprised if I had inside some form of tropical drink or tropical cocktail at some poitn
<HazRPG> s/poitn/point
<HazRPG> seems another one of my friends wants an ubuntu-laptop conversion done
 * HazRPG think I'm in the wrong line of business here
<willy1977> HazRPG: nice!
<HazRPG> maybe I should change from freelance web developer to freelance techie support lol
<BigRedS> problem with tech support is that you need to always be available
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I'm a freelancer ... lol
<BigRedS> since you need to respond quickly, rather tha dev work where you can mostly work to your own schedule
<willy1977> nah... BigRedS
<willy1977> just say you're support is available 23/7
<HazRPG> BigRedS: i usually answer phone calls to "computer... broken down!"
<willy1977> then if anyone can't get in touch you can say you were on your hours break :p
<BigRedS> haha, and don't define that lone '1' :)
<willy1977> you got it ;)
<BigRedS> I was just thinking if you're knee deep in one customer's problem and then another rings saying they're getting no mail and they need it fixed now
<BigRedS> I suppose just pick the customers who wont do that :)
<willy1977> BigRedS: there are customers that wont?
<BigRedS> well, I imagine non-businesses are more willing to wait?
<BigRedS> I'm not sure why that became a question...
<HazRPG> BigRedS: most of the people I help usually say "ah just come over at some point in the week"
<willy1977> yeah true BigRedS personal have to understand it's when you start charging peoples opinions change.
<willy1977> but you know what business customers are like their problem is always the most important :)
<HazRPG> willy1977: business customers are usually the worst >_<
<HazRPG> "email not working... fix it monkey man! Go Go Go!" comes to mind
<HazRPG> besides when I say techie support, I don't mean on-the-phone all day type techie support
<HazRPG> I mean like a fix-it "here's my <device>" type techie support
<Myrtti> moar tea :->
<HazRPG> Myrtti: \o/
<daubers> willy1977: The no caffeine thing was a recomendation, the no alcohol thing was a firm "YOU MUST NOT" and I've seen people drink on AD's before and it's not pretty
<daubers> willy1977: Main reason I cut out caffeine was I was trying to shift my depression with diet changes while using the pills as a crutch
 * Gary tickles Myrtti 
<daubers> however! I haven't had any pills for nearly 2 years now :)
<willy1977> daubers: yeah I avoid the booze now
<HazRPG> daubers: \o/
<HazRPG> I've avoid booze since I started driving
<HazRPG> I'll have one... (even if I'm not driving)... but that'll be all
<daubers> HazRPG: That happens coincidentally with a lot of people :)
<willy1977> daubers: nice work, I'm working my way down the doses hope to be off them soon, but may try and limit the caffeine and see what happens... :/
<HazRPG> mainly because its hard to draw the line as to where the point of "is there alcohol left on my breath" or not
 * AlanBell has real coffee
<willy1977> AlanBell: full fat coffee?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: best kind of coffee
<daubers> willy1977: Make sure you eat relativley healthily too. I found walking a lot helped as well (physical exercise)
<AlanBell> got some beans ground up at starbucks and made a pot of filter coffee
<HazRPG> daubers: guessing my ubuntu stress ball doesn't count as exercise then :(
<BigRedS> full fat? That implies milk, ewww
<daubers> HazRPG: Not quite... Wii Fit does :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: yum :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I find starbucks coffee is so much nicer when made at home
 * daubers has a nice pot of English Breakfast leaf tea
<HazRPG> daubers: does help to reduce pains from RSI though :)
<willy1977> daubers: yeah got that sussed - usually train for my triathlons around 6 times a week (some days 2 sessions) can't beat those endorphines
<daubers> HazRPG: Yes, that it does!
<daubers> willy1977: \o/
<daubers> also, some of the people around here are amazingly helpful and supportive when you get stuck
<HazRPG> I don't see the excitement over exercising... maybe my body is just wired wrong xD
<BigRedS> it's quite fun when you're fit, less so when you're *getting* fit :(
<HazRPG> daubers: we geeks gotta stick together ya know :)
<willy1977> HazRPG: nah, believe me I was the anti-excerciser about 1.5 years ago... BigRedS has hit the nail on the head.
<HazRPG> BigRedS: true... I use to be in a basketball team at one point, still never saw how people got their kicks out of it... it was fun to do, but that was all lol
<Laney> being fun isn't enough?
<HazRPG> Laney: ...well it is, until someone points out that they enjoy doing it and they're getting a kick out of it and I don't see the same effects lol
<BigRedS> surely they just enjoy it being fun?
 * BigRedS is confused
<HazRPG> some people can be a bit more descriptive about it than that lol - trying to keep language and content to a more family nature
<BigRedS> haha
<Laney> O_O
<HazRPG> Laney: my reactions each time!
<d3ngar> Hi there, I came back with the problem from last night:
<d3ngar> I want to create a VPN network between my home server and two clients.
<d3ngar> I can connect with both clients fine and the clients can be pinged from the server. The clients can also ping the server, but unfortunately not each other
<d3ngar> I think it's a routing problem at the server side, but I don't know how to fix it
<d3ngar> Any help is much appreciated
<BigRedS> I suspect the server is unaware that it is supposed to be routing data between the two hosts
<HazRPG> I think this might have to be my next project... I've used VPN's before... but I've never set one up...
<BigRedS> I can't help on how to tell it to, though :(
<HazRPG> *formulates some ideas for blog*
<HazRPG> hmm, that's a ring back about them being read for me to go round...
<HazRPG> *goes to gather his ubuntu-installing gear and testing devices*
<HazRPG> always good to go prepared right?
<willy1977> d3ngar: I guess the first thing I'd be looking at is are there any firewalls running on the clients?
<d3ngar> willy1977: No, no firewalls
<willy1977> all linux?
<HazRPG> d3ngar: don't forget firewalls on routers, check your forwarding the correct ports etc
<d3ngar> Yes
<HazRPG> d3ngar: are you using a separate IP range for the VPN to the rest of the network?
<d3ngar> HazRPG: Routers? Isn't it that the clients should be able to ping one another cause they are getting an IP from the VPN server?
<d3ngar> No, I do not
<d3ngar> I use the same IP range
<d3ngar> The VPN server is behind the BT Home Hub
<BigRedS> d3ngar: only if you've told the VPN server to route packets between them
<d3ngar> BigRedS: My saying! How would I go about this?
<willy1977> wouldn't they better off all just accessing one network? or have I missed something?
<BigRedS> Aha, I don't know :( Are you using OpenVPN?
<BigRedS> 'cause I've just stumbled across this: http://www.grc.com/vpn/routing.htm
<BigRedS> (it's amusing how other people's problems are always more interesting than your own :)  )
<HazRPG> willy1977: if he's using a VPN I'm guessing the other machines are at remote locations
<d3ngar> I use the pptpd stuff that comes with Ubuntu
<willy1977> ok but I just don't understand how they're all behind the same router?
<HazRPG> BigRedS: (i know right!)
<d3ngar> They are not in the same network
<d3ngar> I keep them in another network to make sure that this works okay
<willy1977> got it, before they go to remote locations of course...
<d3ngar> Weirdly enough, the computers in behind the BT Home Hub can't ping one another
<HazRPG> d3ngar: hmm, that is odd
<d3ngar> But I assume that's an issue with this rubbish BT equipment and shouldn't really matter for the VPN, right?
<HazRPG> d3ngar: might be worth checking the model number of the BT Home Hub to see if that's an issue, or if ping packets are disabled
<BigRedS> if the VPN is between the hosts, the ping behaviour of the home hub shouldn't come into it
<d3ngar> But the router never registers the VPN clients as connected
<BigRedS> it just sees an encrpted stream
 * BigRedS hasn't been paying attention, admittedlyt
<d3ngar> yes
<HazRPG> ah ok
<d3ngar> So how can I make the server link the clients to one another?
<d3ngar> It's strange...
<willy1977> ok, I'm going to step back here afraid I don't enough about it... :/
<HazRPG> I can honestly say I've used them, but I've never configured them
<HazRPG> d3ngar: right, quick question... how are the IP's being assigned? That might be the route of the problems (just a thought)
<d3ngar> The pptpd config has a range that it assigns
<d3ngar> So the first VPN client gets 192.168.1.250
<d3ngar> The next 251
<d3ngar> and so on
<HazRPG> right
<HazRPG> d3ngar: did you say that the machines inside the BT Home Hub network can't ping each other either?
<d3ngar> No, they can't
<d3ngar> Well, I can ping one computer
<willy1977> can the server ping each of it's clients?
<HazRPG> seems like something is killing the ping packets internally somehow
 * willy1977 couldn't help himself
<d3ngar> All computers can ping this one
<d3ngar> But they can't ping one another
<d3ngar> it's not on the DMZ or anything
<d3ngar> The server can ping the clients
<d3ngar> Both of them
<d3ngar> No problems
<HazRPG> can't the server ping other things inside the internal network is what I mean
<HazRPG> can*
<d3ngar> No
<d3ngar> The server can not ping other computers in the domain
<HazRPG> hmm, something internally is the problem them
<HazRPG> how is the internal network setup?
<HazRPG> I'm guessing the router is the DHCP
<HazRPG> but I mean, do the other computer rely on the server for anything?
<HazRPG> fileserver, etc
<d3ngar> Yes, the BT Home Hub is a DHCP server and every computer, save the server, connects wirelessly
<d3ngar> Yes, the VPN server is also a file server
<d3ngar> And SSH and that stuff
<d3ngar> I am confused as to why the computers can't ping one another
<HazRPG> seems your router is the issue then
<d3ngar> mmm
<willy1977> I've missed something again - wouldn't they all default to using the wireless connection to the hub?
<d3ngar> So fix this first and then see if the VPN mystically works?
<HazRPG> if everything (other than the server) is connected wirelessly, seems your router is dropping packets for some reason
<willy1977> it's not unusual for home routers to have the ping functionality turned off...
<HazRPG> since your server can see the other machines... the VPN seems fine
<BigRedS> hang on, are these three hosts all in the same physical private network, and you're also putting them in a VPN?
<d3ngar> But why then can't to VPN clients see one another?
<d3ngar> No
<d3ngar> There are a few computers here
<BigRedS> oh, I'll go back and reread :)
<HazRPG> however when your VPN tries to ping each other, the way it works is... it goes to the server, the server asks the router since it is the DHCP client where the other machines are... but it seems the router is dropping them
<d3ngar> Two are in an external network - through my mobile phone
<willy1977> BigRedS: you're not alone that's what I thought was going on...
<BigRedS> HazRPG: the router probably isn't the DHCP server for the VPN
<BigRedS> the VPN server is
<d3ngar> Three others are in the BT Home Hubs
<willy1977> d3ngar: ok that's clarified...
<willy1977> don't mobile phone's block vpn traffic without paying an extra monthly charge?
<BigRedS> if it isn't, it probably should be. The router's the DHCP server for the physical network that contains the VPN server, but the VPN, being a different network, has a different DHCP server
<willy1977> although if the server can see them... probably a moot point.
<HazRPG> BigRedS: that might be true... however he's still using the same IP's as the internal network, which is probably why there's some conflict
<HazRPG> IP range*
<BigRedS> Ah, that will confuse things
<d3ngar> Should I change the IP range for the VPN?
<BigRedS> even if the software can cope with it, you'll confuse people that way
<willy1977> right I'm going to have to get going otherwise Mrs W will be threatening nastiness.
<willy1977> hopefully catch up later
<HazRPG> so in theory, although the VPN has its own DHCP of sorts... the server is still bound by the internal DHCP too... and well it will be assuming that it needs to access that first (I could be wrong)
<willy1977> d3ngar: hope you get it sorted
<d3ngar> Thanks willy
<HazRPG> willy1977: alright dude, catch you later
<willy1977> np
<BigRedS> the VPN server has two network interfaces. One is real, and has an IP address dictated by the home hub or whatever. The other is virtual (and on the VPN) and has whatever IP address you've given it.
<HazRPG> d3ngar: okay, first things first... lets try and cancel some stuff out of the equation
<HazRPG> d3ngar: change the range the VPN is using, that way the clients are reliant only on the server and nothing else, and see what happens then... if you can then ping each other... seems like the VPN is perfectly fine
<HazRPG> if however you still can't ping, the problem lies elsewhere
<d3ngar> Okay
<d3ngar> Three minutes
<d3ngar> What's a save range?
<d3ngar> 10.10.10.1-10?
<MartijnVdS> d3ngar: see RFC 1918
<BigRedS> yeah, 10.*.*.* and 192.168.*.*
<d3ngar> !RFC1918
<BigRedS> use for the VPN whichever of the two isn't the physical network
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you can use separate subnets
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: (192.168.1.0/24, 192.168.2.0/24 etc.)
<BigRedS> yeah, but for people-friendliness I like to use entirely different classes
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: same with 10.0.0.0/8
<BigRedS> well, I like other people to
<Myrtti> hm. meh. I think I might be a bit allergic to fresh passionfruit :-(
<MartijnVdS> also, there's some space in 172.
<BigRedS> I don't actually set up any VPNs, I just like IP addresses to be instantly recognisable
<Myrtti> throat feels a bit funny after eating the second one
<HazRPG> Myrtti: sup?
<Myrtti> what a shame, it tasted lovely
 * daubers closes minecraft and goes to find his little switching hub
<HazRPG> BigRedS: you'll be really confused when you start doing some IPv6 stuff then dude :P
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I was at first :P
<BigRedS> HazRPG: yeah, that's why I keep stopping
<BigRedS> :)
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I highly recommend when your doing the IPv6 that once you've got it working, try and do some of the tests that H.E. have on IPv6 - and it will make your life so much easier
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you'll be the last v4-only node on the internet?: )
<BigRedS> I intend to get everyone else using ip6 so I can carry on using ip4 ranges :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: ha! Exactly!
<HazRPG> right, I do really need to go otherwise my friend is going to wonder what's taking me so long, but I'll discuss it with him too and probably be logged back in when I get to his... he works at a school/college messing with networks all day long so he might have some more insight on the matter :)
<HazRPG> although I highly recommend MartijnVdS's advice too :)
<d3ngar> No, even in a separate range, they can't ping each other
<Pendulum> Myrtti: it's pretty rare to have an allergic reaction to something the very first time you eat it :-/
<d3ngar> Weirdly enough, it doesn't say "Destination Host Unreachable"
<d3ngar> But just simply doesn't do anything
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<HazRPG> d3ngar: still sounds like the router is doing some funny business to it
<HazRPG> d3ngar: stopped this while I was looking for some stuff for you: http://www.computertrouble.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4741
<HazRPG> right, really need to go... I'll bbl once I've gotten to his house
<brobostigon> good morning HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good morning dude :)
<HazRPG> bbl
<brobostigon> ok, o/
 * HazRPG puts usb-key around neck
<HazRPG> o/
<brobostigon> :)
<d3ngar> mmm, i think my router is yet another model from the one described in the post
<d3ngar> I can edit the firewall routing, but I know little about it and the terms are a bit confusing
<d3ngar> WAN for example would be the internet?
<directhex> yes
<d3ngar> I'm just going to disable the firewall temporarily
<d3ngar> That just made no difference yet again :(
<brobostigon> bbc have ditched click again, :(
<d3ngar> I can't understand why I can't ping devices inside my own network
<d3ngar> I'll drop as I will restart this router :(
<d3ngar__> I can now ping clients within my own network
<d3ngar__> Restarting the BT router did the job
<d3ngar__> But the VPN still doesn't work properly :(
<d3ngar__> Is there not a way to connect the two VPN IPs with each other?
<d3ngar__> Client A to Client B?
<d3ngar__> With a bridge or something?
<directhex> that's up to the network you're VPNing into to route
<d3ngar__> But how???
<d3ngar__> I'm close to crying :(
<d3ngar__> How do I have to set-up my VPN to route this traffic?
<d3ngar__> a bridge won't take of that?
<d3ngar__> If for example I bridge ppp0 to ppp1?
<directhex> define "my vpn". what exactly is "my vpn"?
<d3ngar__> My VPN server
<d3ngar__> It's here under my TV
<directhex> running what?
<d3ngar__> It's a Ubuntu pptpd VPN
<d3ngar__> I just installed it through the package maintainer
<directhex> okay, so pptp. you're assigning clients a bridged IP on your network? e.g. if a client 78.80.80.100 connects to it, it gets an ip like 192.168.0.66?
<d3ngar__> Yes
<d3ngar__> It gets an IP from the VPN server fine
<d3ngar__> No problem
<d3ngar__> The server can ping the client
<d3ngar__> The client can ping the server
<d3ngar__> The clients can't ping each other
<directhex> the client config is correct? a route is added?
<d3ngar__> No?
<d3ngar__> Exactly my saying...
<d3ngar__> What would I have to do?
<d3ngar__> I can add routes through the interface
<directhex> i don't know about pptp, but with openvpn, there's a tickbox where you can ask it to add a route for that network only
<directhex> then check it with "route" in a terminal
<d3ngar__> But what would I have to tell it for Address | Netmask | Gateway | and Metric
<directhex> the remote vpn server should offer a route
<d3ngar__> How would that route look for example?
<directhex> on the command line, a successful route would look how you expect
<d3ngar__> The client gets a route for ppp0 -> 10.10.10.1 | Gateway: 0.0.0.0 | Genmask 255.255.255.255
<d3ngar__> That's not how I would expect it, but then again, I don't know how I should expect it to look
<directhex> that mask is the problem
<d3ngar__> How I de-mask it and give it the right mask then?
<directhex> 255.255.255.255 is "this ip only"
<directhex> you want the whole 10.10.10 subnet, right? in which case you want 255.255.255.0
<d3ngar__> Yes
<d3ngar__> I thought as much
<d3ngar__> But how to change it?
<directhex> i don't know pptpd configuration
<directhex> but it's a server issu
<directhex> e
<d3ngar__> :(
<d3ngar__> I have to go
<d3ngar__> But I will probably be back on it this evening ;(
<d3ngar__> Gotta get this sorted before tomorrow
<suprengr> o/ peeps
<suprengr> Temperature: 10Â°C (50Â°F), Wind Direction: SW, Wind Speed: 10mph, Relative Humidity: 95%, Pressure: 1013mb, rising, Visibility: Very good... was the weather forecast also using PornView?
<suprengr> on a serious note: anyone around to explain the difference between "sudo rmmod kvm_intel && sudo rmmod kvm" and doing a modprobe -r ?
<BigRedS> I think modprobe also unloads any modules depended upon by its argument, but rmmod only removed the module its passed
<BigRedS> so likely nothing in the exact line above, except you'd only need to do 'modprobe -r kvm_intel' and it'd spot that 'kvm' is also not needed
<BigRedS> *i think*
<suprengr> thanks BigRedS
<BigRedS> no probs! Like I say, though, I'm not certain of that
<suprengr> ...point taken
<suprengr> the ultimate question is... would modprobe -r be permanent? [as that is what I am trying to achieve] - without recompiling kernel
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: if you want it to be permanent, add it to the blacklist
<MartijnVdS> But why would you want to blacklist?
<MartijnVdS> or unload
<suprengr> why oh why oh whyh why didn't I think of that!
<suprengr> cheers MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: still.. no reason to not load modules usually
<suprengr> MartijnVdS: it is stopping VirtualBox doing it's bit [usoing 10.04]. It complains about the KVM bit after every boot using rmod
<suprengr> *using
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> use kvm, not vbox :)
<BigRedS> ah yeah, that's one of those unusuals :)
<daubers> bri and turkey sammich *nom* *nom* *nom*
<suprengr> tried... preferred vb... I know - lazy!
<BigRedS> yeah, I've ended up migrating to VB. Though now it says 'oracle' on it I'm thinking of moving all my VB VMs over to KVM...
 * suprengr is jealous of daubers
<suprengr> [assuming he is noiming as well
<jonsaint> hi folks. when will firefox 4 be avaliable in the updates???
<BigRedS> when you install 11.04
<BigRedS> it'll never get into the mainstream updates for 10.10
<suprengr> BigRedS:  you don't find it a pain then?  I know it's as fashionable to be a vb'er but after a long day's work... etc
<jonsaint> cheers bigreds
<BigRedS> you can install through PPA if you want it quicker, Mozilla tend to maintain a PPA for it
<suprengr> *not [as]
<jonsaint> ppa?
<BigRedS> suprengr: find KVM a pain? No, I used it before I used VirtualBox, so VB just seems really really easy. There's a gui Qemu config tool that makes it about as easy as vbox anyway
<suprengr> BigRedS: ooh... didn't know that
<BigRedS> jonsaint: yeah, it's like a personal repository, I'm sure there's a page on it in the ubuntu docs but I can't find it
<BigRedS> !ppa
<lubotu3> A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and should be used at your own risk.
<BigRedS> Aha! there ^^
<BigRedS> suprengr: yeah, I can't remember what the one I used was called, though. There's a few in the repos
<jonsaint> cheers all
<suprengr> re jonsaint's question... wouldn't ununtuzilla be of use?
<suprengr> jonsaint: don't use it until further opion received
<suprengr> *opion [damn keyboard]
<suprengr> *opinion [damn keyboard now beaten into submission]
<jonsaint> cheers
<suprengr> BigRedS: thanks. will go looking for it or similar
<suprengr> BigRedS: thanks for the blacklist reminder!  used your blacklist option & now vb ok - now need to go hunt the kvm gui option. cheers
<MartijnVdS> virt-manager \o/
<suprengr> still considered experimental?
<MartijnVdS> no?
<suprengr> [that was quoted from synaptic]
<brobostigon> any other recommendations for making video dvd's, as bresaro just died on me.
<BigRedS> k3b might do them?
<BigRedS> it's KDE's brasero
<BigRedS> sort-of
<brobostigon> let me try, :)
<BigRedS> it will pull in a big bunch of KDE if you've not already got them, might be wort looking for a more GTK one
<BigRedS> I just always use K3b
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> is there something i am missing, it wont make a videocd from a mpeg4 file.
<brobostigon> is mpeg4 not an understood format?
<MartijnVdS> video cds use MPEG-1
<MartijnVdS> DVDs use MPEG-2
<MartijnVdS> HD-DVD and Blu-Ray use MPEG-4
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_CD
<brobostigon> so i need to convert it to mpeg1?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<brobostigon> ok, easy, ffmpeg to the rescue.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thank you.
<MartijnVdS> There's svcd, which is mpeg2
<MartijnVdS> ("super video-cd")
<brobostigon> what is the difference?
<MartijnVdS> most players support it these days (DVD players have the MPEG-2 decoding bits anyway)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's MPEG-2, which gives more quality at similar bitrates
<MartijnVdS> Because of its 480x480 resolution, SVCD picture quality is more than double that of VCD. On the downside, this increase in picture resolution sacrifices video length capacity by over 50%. Because of this, titles released on SVCD has to come in twice the number of discs of their VCD equivalents. [1]
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i think it will have to be mpeg2 then.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: why are you making a video-cd, not a DVD?
<MartijnVdS> video cds are ancient tech
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: because i just tried bresaro, and it compained about the disc format.
<gordonjcp> video cd
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: how?
<gordonjcp> jeez, that takes me back
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it said, please put in a compatiblecd or dvd, please.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: i.e. an empty DVD disc
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes.
 * MartijnVdS tries
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i could try it again, and convert said video to mpeg2,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: brasero offers to install "dvdauthor" when I put in an empty DVD+R and try to write some videos to disc
<MartijnVdS> and it auto-converts to mpeg2
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: let me see if i have that installed.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i didnt have dvdauthor installed here,
<brobostigon> just installed it.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: brasero offered to install it for me when I tried to do something dvdish
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it didnt here, weird. i will try again.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: might be a natty feature
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am in natty aswell, maybe.
<gordonjcp> I'm trying natty again
<gordonjcp> I still can't get rid of the drop shadows
<gordonjcp> I don't think I'll use natty, even when it comes out
<gordonjcp> s/natty/unity/
<brobostigon> bresaro is still saying, pleasereplace with a suppoted cd or dvd.
<gordonjcp> anyone managed to get rid of the drop shadows in Unity?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: When? Before or after clicking "Burn"?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: before, just after i added said mpeg4 file.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: did you insert any DVD/CD into your writer?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i dont understand youre question.
<MartijnVdS> is there an empty disc of the correct type in your cd/dvd-writer?
<MartijnVdS> And was it detected properly? (is it in the dropdown in brasero)
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: as far as i can tell,the burmer supports the dvd type i am using. and bresaro shows black dvd or like, next to the burn button, yes.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: there's a drop-down.. "Image file" or a disc with <x> hours free
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the latter.
<MartijnVdS> What does it say?
<MartijnVdS> ("Empty DVD-R disc, x.y GB free space"?)
<brobostigon> blank dvd-rom disc: 1h 58 of free space
<MartijnVdS> Does the mp4 file play with totem?
<brobostigon> plays in vlc fine, not tried totem.
<MartijnVdS> try totem :)
<MartijnVdS> you might just be missing a gstreamer plugin
<brobostigon> ok,one moment.
 * daubers makes the tea
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: totem plays said mpeg2 video fine.
 * suprengr has been checking stats: of questions asked v help given by self ... you good folks win by over 2:1.. even adding in help given on #ubuntu & #ubuntu-uk stats only get to a paultry 85%.
 * suprengr shrugs and says:  thanks to all the good folks who offer more than I do or can.
<brobostigon> !info bombono natty
<lubotu3> Package bombono does not exist in natty
<brobostigon> !info bombono-dvd natty
<lubotu3> bombono-dvd (source: bombono-dvd): DVD authoring program with nice and clean GUI. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1.0.0-0ubuntu1 (natty), package size 895 kB, installed size 2288 kB
<brobostigon> finally managed to make a dvd-video with that.
 * brobostigon wipes his brow.
<suprengr> whoops please /s/"even adding in help given on #ubuntu & #ubuntu-uk stats"/"even adding in help given on #ubuntu & #ubuntu-beginners"
<HazRPG> guessing d3ngar__ still hasn't had all his problems sorted out yet
<brobostigon> HazRPG: what problems did he have, i wasnt following.
<bigcalm[eee]> Hi peeps
<Pendulum> hi bigcalm[eee]
<bigcalm[eee]> Hey Pendulum, having a good weekend?
<Pendulum> not bad, ta.
<Pendulum> it's sunny
<bigcalm[eee]> Sun really does lift the spirits :)
<Pendulum> also I just took the powerchair for a spin and it's so nice when I can do that :)
<bigcalm[eee]> Sweet
<BigRedS> bigcalm[eee]: pity it's owned by oracle now :(
<bigcalm[eee]> Burn rubber and make some doughnuts?
<bigcalm[eee]> BigRedS: sun is no more :(
<bigcalm[eee]> Visiting Hayley's brother at hospital who is currently on a ventilator in the HDU. Lots of waiting as different family members take turns at his side. Brought my  eeepc, wish I'd have brought my laptop instead. hum ho
<bigcalm[eee]> Oh, and USB tether FTW
<dwatkins> My Eee is a little slow to be a proper machine, but it works well enough for IRC
 * BigRedS returns with cake and banana milk
<brobostigon> how do i reset ubuntu one, it isnt syncing properly.
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Bugs
<popey> good for troubleshooting
<brobostigon> cheers popey
<brobostigon> its weird, itssaying, its syncing 150+ files, when i havent even editing that many, and most have been prevousl fully synced.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> o/
<MartijnVdS> popey: Good thing I'm switching to XFCE I see.. with no "classic" gnome available
<MartijnVdS> i.e. sane gnoem
<MartijnVdS> gnome*
<BigRedS> heh. I've just found myself with Debian everywhere...
 * brobostigon shakes fist at ubuntu one.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I want firmware for my hardware.. so Debian isn't an option
<BigRedS> it is, it's just a convoluted on :)
<BigRedS> *one
<MartijnVdS> xubuntu is really nice
<BigRedS> I do need to give xfce another go
<brobostigon> there are loads of ubuntu one bugs, that reflect not syncing and or not being able toadd machines. arghh..
<brobostigon> now ubuntu one seems to be trying to sync a file, i cant find that exists, but it thinks that does.
<popey> MartijnVdS: as I said elsewhere....
<popey> 18:33:23 <@popey> I suspect what shuttleworth means is we wont ship with Unity 3d and GNOME 2-panel 'classic' on the CD
<popey> 18:33:43 <@popey> But for 11.10 we will probably ship Unity 3d and Unity 2d (as the fallback for non-3d owning people)
<popey> 18:33:58 <@popey> it actually makes no sense to back Unity and actually ship something else on the CD
<popey> 18:34:11 <@popey> that would be like shipping a CD with GNOME and KDE on it "in case you don't like GNOME"
<popey> 18:35:05 <@popey> If you're betting your company/reputation/distro on Unity then it makes sense for both the 3d and 2d "desktop" to  y'know, _be_ Unity
<matti> Hey ivanka
<AlanBell> popey: centos ships gnome and kde on a cd
<zleap> we have kubuntu for kde right
<popey> AlanBell: not for the same reason as we ship unity 3d and gnome classic was my point
<AlanBell> yeah, sorry didn't mean to derail your point, was just an observation
<AlanBell> installed it for a client the other day (they suggested centos and provided the CD)
<zleap> well i don't thjink my duron 1600 with geforce 4 can handle unity
<zleap> so sticking with 10.04 till i get a hardware upgrade
<popey> have you tried it zleap ?
<zleap> well tried to boot it ages ago (ubunty 11.04 beta) and it failed, i may try again
<zleap> i have an iso on my desktop so can make a usb flash drive thingy and try it
<popey> i would
<zleap> ok
<gord> geforce 4 might work, i would guess its dependant on how good your drivers are
<gord> ie: the open source ones might suck
<zleap> so apart from the mac like menus, where the bar at the top displays the app menu,  and the side bar thing which I guess is an app launcher, what advantages does unity have ?
<jenkins> I am unconvinced by unity at the moment, I have only tried in a vm. feels very basic and not very shiny, also rather like a mac dare i say it
<zleap> jenkins, yeah
<zleap> thing is i need basic, so my processor can spend time running applications not eye candy
<gord> we tried a more complicated unity in 10.10 - people don't like complicated, a lot of the current UI makes sense so why change everything?
<jenkins> I do use awn :? but going to try gnome 3 as it looks like they had some nice design ideas
<zleap> k
<zleap> oohhh gnome 3 looks er nice
<jenkins> it does although to try it I am downloading fedora 15 alpah
<iasonas> Hello, I formatted in Windows (quick format) a drive that was ext4. Is there any way of getting the files back? I have tried TestDisk, it does find a deleted partition but that's it.
<zleap> erm
<zleap> any idea if gnome 3 will be available for ubuntu 10.04
<gord> 10.04? no.
<zleap> ok]
<jenkins> not as far as i am aware, it is via a ppa for 11.04 but there are some small bugs dues to ubuntu packages
<jenkins> zleap: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1707669 may be of interest
<gord> i don't recommend that ppa at all
<gord> i'v just seen lots of people have a huge number of problems
<jenkins> can't say i have tried it
<brobostigon> gord: i am using the gnome3-teams ppa, no issues yet,
<jenkins> brobostigon:  did you get evince to install?
<brobostigon> jenkins: yes, no issues, justused it.
<jenkins> strange been reading that there is a conflict on the new version, may be they have fixed it
<brobostigon> jenkins: it was updates afew daysago, i didnt notice any conflict or similer,
<DJones> Evening all
<jenkins> good to know may try installing natty later then
<brobostigon> ubuntu one is being a bigger issue, and gpu lockup.
<brobostigon> eating and ircing, is not easy.
<gord> sometimes it pays to not multi-task ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> food, with eeepc + top gear,
<jenkins> be back off to try f15
<AlanBell> anyone else having a go at a Natty install?
<BigRedS> fedora? ewww
<BigRedS> I just dist upgraded my VM and it's now not broken :)
<BigRedS> though I did afterwards remember you're not supposed to dist-upgrade any more
<AlanBell> really?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: why?
<BigRedS> well, now not knowingly broken
<BigRedS> It used to look like Gnome in 2002, now it's got the ubuntu colours
<zleap> lxde looks cool
<brobostigon> openbox is a good WM.
<zleap> i may switch to that where I am helping out could give some of the old computers we are building improved performance
<zleap> that too
<BigRedS> yeah, I like the sound of lxde
<BigRedS> openbox without the faff :)
<zleap> well something that runs on 9.04 and has low memory requirements
<zleap> are they easy to lock down
<zleap> ?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: openbox is lxde's WM.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: yeah, but it's already configured and has a panel and stuff
<DJones> AlanBell: I tried a natty install yesterday, but it crashed out during the install, trouble is I forgot tonote the error message & since installed 10.10
<brobostigon> BigRedS: thats lxde ontop of openbox,
<zleap> is there a site somewhere that compares window managers and memory usage ?
<zleap> wb jenkins
<jenkins> thanks, running a live gnome 3 and first impressions change is good. I like it.
<brobostigon> jenkins: what gnome-shell build version is it?
<jenkins> where do you find out?
<brobostigon> indebian i would look via apt-cache.
<brobostigon> jenkins: ok,  it might be easier to ask, when the cd image was made?
<jenkins> I will look in add/remove software, just hopped there was an about dialogue
<zleap> system - about gnome gives some info on build version (not sure if its gnone shell build version)
<jenkins> cd is the fedora 15 alpaha downlaoded today cd released 8th march
<jenkins> still have the minize buttons in so i guess its a bit old
<brobostigon> jenkins: yes,very old, loads ofgood changes after that,
<AlanBell> so if anyone happens to be doing an install, can you hit space after the bios, select english then press F5 to get to the accessibility options, pick one of them at random and go through the install as you would have done anyway, and report bugs if it seems broken
<jenkins> brobostigon: the mimize buttons going may take a bit of getting use to
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i will see whatican do, when i try an install next week on my mums machine.
<brobostigon> jenkins: no, not really, because you have nowhere to minimise to, so, why have minimise, if you have no tradional desktop to minimise to, and have different window manaegement to need minimise to change between windows, it just isnt needed really bt design.
<jenkins> I see what you mean I am sure i will get use to it.
<ali1234> reminds me of when they removed the close button on windows mobile
<ali1234> "just leave all programs running all the time" they said
<jenkins> and the buttons are on the right! May have to move them :)
<brobostigon> jenkins: you wont need to get used to it not being there, as you will have no need for them.
<jenkins> brobostigon: I guess I will use more work spaces with out a mimize button
<brobostigon> jenkins: that is one intention, yes, workspaces do give better program manegement.
<d3ngar> Just to let you guys know
<BigRedS> can give better program management
<d3ngar> I solved the routing problem with my VPN
<BigRedS> I dislike this idea that we should have one or the other
<BigRedS> d3ngar: oooh, what was it?
<d3ngar> directhex gave me the right idea
<d3ngar> But it needed to be sorted on the CLIENT side
<d3ngar> added a route with "route add..."
<d3ngar> I posted it on ubuntuforums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1719992
<brobostigon> BigRedS: all it tries to do, is improve what wr already have.
<BigRedS> tbh, it feels about the same to me
<jenkins> I do wonder why have a light theme with a dark tool bar?
<d3ngar> Gotta reboot
<d3ngar> So thanks all
<BigRedS> I just keep seeing this thing about how it's designed to make people use workspaces instead of alt-tabbing
<BigRedS> which seems weird
<brobostigon> BigRedS: jenkins here inside ubuntu, i get dark blue window bars.
<brobostigon> sorry, tab fail.
<brobostigon> BigRedS: not makepeople useworkspaces, but make that a good way of program manegement again, which was awful in gnome2.
<BigRedS> really? It works alright for me. Maybe I'm using them badly... :)
<BigRedS> i've even got to the point where ctrl+alt+arrow seems fairly natural
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i didnt like it, myself in gnome2, it workd, but i knew it could have been better,
<BigRedS> mm, there's a few things that could be beter
<BigRedS> better
<brobostigon> agreed.
<BigRedS> I think Unity still does the thing I dislike of not binding an app to its workspace
<BigRedS> well,not by default. And I've not found a way to configure that
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> oh.
<BigRedS> so you end up with firefox password dialog boxes hidden under windows on the wrong workspace
<BigRedS> why on earth firefox wont accept input while one of those is up is beyond me
<brobostigon> that happens ingnome2. but not in gnome3 that i can see.
<silner> BigRedS, You mean it works too much like the Macos finder? That's what I don't like. It's the same thing I've never liked about the Mac
<BigRedS> I don't remember finder that well :)
<BigRedS> though I'm giving OSX another go when I get round to sticking OSX on this mac mini I've got
<silner> It seems really similar to me
<brobostigon> bsd/darwin, ie, i have tried, i havent tried all the apple  stuff ontop.
<silner> I'm now in the awkward position of not liking Gnome 3 much and liking Unity less
<BigRedS> I've had a really brief go on Gnome 3 and really disliked it. Unity just feels like mildly broken Gnome so far
<brobostigon> if i had my way, i wouldrun haiku every day, and be done with it, because that has the best, i have ever tried,
<BigRedS> my PCs are all running Squeeze, though, so I've always got some nice stability to go back to
<silner> I liked Haiku in theory, but in practice it lacks too much I need
<brobostigon> BigRedS: when i was running sid, iwas running gnome-shell from experimental.
<brobostigon> silner: that is why, i cant use it, as much as i would like.
<BigRedS> Ah, no, I run Debian Testing as a concession away from stable, rather than for a more stable Unstable.
<BigRedS> I don't want new :)
<brobostigon> BigRedS: :)
<silner> BigRedS, I'm running Debian Stable at the moment, to get a way from all the new things I don't like. Do you know what happens if I change the repos to Testing updates - does it then act like a rolling release, or does it just mess everything up? I'd like to know before I do it :)
<BigRedS> Testing is a rolling release
<BigRedS> so change sources.list to wheezy, read the release notes, dist-upgrade
<BigRedS> and then just keep running upgrades
<brobostigon> BigRedS: so is unstable, thing move from sid/unstable to testing dont they.
<silner> So changing from "Squeeze" to "testing in the updates section of the repos should do what I want?
<BigRedS> no, change sources.list to testing :) else you'll end up on stable soon
<BigRedS> silner: yeah. With a dist-upgrade, though. I don't think there was anything notable in the release notes, but I can't really remember
<BigRedS> brobostigon: yeah, but they change an awful lot less in testing
<brobostigon> BigRedS: very true,
<silner> BigRedS, does dist-upgrade work the same as it does on Ubuntu?
<BigRedS> silner: yeah, exactly the same apt
<BigRedS> or aptitude, if you prefer
<silner> It's just there are a few apps that are too old on Stable, only one or two so it's annoying but still
<BigRedS> yeah, that's why I'm on testing
<brobostigon> silner: backports?
<BigRedS> you *can* use pinning or backports, but testing's so stable really that I don't see the point in stable on a workstation really
<silner> I've never used that brobostigon how do you do it (being lazy to not search)
<BigRedS> it's a repo to add, and suddenly new versions are available :)
<silner> So I may as well move to testing
<silner> Ah right
<brobostigon> silner: for stable there is a backports repo, i cant rmemeber the string right now,
<silner> I wouldn't mind using that if I can find it cos for a couple of apps it would be quicker than dist-upgrade
<silner> I'll have atihnk
<BigRedS> http://backports.debian.org/
<BigRedS> I think you can just stick that in your sources.list
<BigRedS> else, there'll be a howto on the site :)
<brobostigon> ou can, yes.
<silner> That looks really convenient. I don't even have to enable it permanently
<silner> Debian does come up with clever systems
<brobostigon> agreed.
<BigRedS> yeah, I do maintain that it's pretty much the most user friendly OS there is
<BigRedS> but I would, I suppose. It's my favrit :)
<brobostigon> apt/dpkg is certainly the best package manegement i have experienced. that kind, is what we need in idea, on haiku.
<BigRedS> yeah, I get quite frustrated when I need to use OSs that don't have it
<brobostigon> and is planned for r1.
<silner> Which is the main #Debian support channel BigRedS - is it here or on OFTC?
<dutchie> oftc iirc
<BigRedS> oftc is the official one
<BigRedS> I idle on the one here, sometimes, but I've yet to have a question that's not a google away
<silner> It's not so much that BigRedS as I like to soak up other people's questions :)
<dwatkins> I also like to learn from what others ask.
<silner> Yeah, that way you learnt the stuff you didn't know you didn't know :)
<dwatkins> exactly, silner :)
<dwatkins> I listen to the TWiT security podcast for the same reason
<silner> dwatkins, I used to listen to that, but I've got a bit overloaded with Podcasts lately
<silner> dwatkins, I still get that one Randal Scwartz does
 * silner trying to remember name
<b1ackcr0w> hey all!
<dwatkins> brb, need to feed the hamster...
<popey> silner: floss weekly
<b1ackcr0w> I've been considering Chirality in the the Unity interface
<silner> That's the one popey :)
<willy1977> evening all
<willy1977> anyone have any experience with ant+ (garmin sports devices in particular)
 * willy1977 thinks that may be a very long shot...
<b1ackcr0w> is it easy to shift the main app bar over to the right hand side of the screen in Unity
<b1ackcr0w> ?
<ali1234> no
<b1ackcr0w> does anybody think that the main controls on a touch screen should be on the side of the the dominant chiral hand of 70 to 90% of the population?
<ali1234> yes
<b1ackcr0w> so how come they're on the other side?
<ali1234> unfortunately only one guy's opinion counts
<ali1234> and that guy isn't me or you
<brobostigon> no, i amleft handed. :(
<ali1234> unity isn't compatible with touchscreens anyway due to the dumb menu hiding stuff
<gordonjcp> b1ackcr0w: I think the whole thing is terrible
<b1ackcr0w> so, why can't they be moved so that 100% of people can have a comfortable interface?
<gordonjcp> its behaviour is totally random
<gordonjcp> you double-click a little square, maybe it'll launch an app and maybe it won't
<gordonjcp> maybe it'll make some app windows whirl around the screen a bit
<brobostigon> b1ackcr0w: it wouldnt be 100%, a significant amount of people are left handed.
<dutchie> brobostigon: he means to make it configurable i think
<b1ackcr0w> brobostigon: it would be if you had chiral choice
<gordonjcp> I don't get how you're supposed to switch between apps in unity
<b1ackcr0w> i've been using alt-tab
<brobostigon> b1ackcr0w: i am all for choice, but nothave itset to onside, andno be changeable.
<gordonjcp> b1ackcr0w: I tried that but it just brought up some little squares
<ali1234> is natty working in virtualbox yet?
<b1ackcr0w> oh lord. are the project team of the opinion they can change all these things?
<b1ackcr0w> (ready for release date I mean)
<BigRedS> ali1234: appears to be for me
<BigRedS> b1ackcr0w: all what things? It's really quite usable, really
<BigRedS> er, not that I'm actually using it generally, but from faffing in a vm I can't find any horrible brokenness
<ali1234> the menu hiding is horribly broken if you use a touch screen
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: I've still not found a way to turn off the drop shadows
<ali1234> as is putting all the menus on the left hand side
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: and I've not figured out how to get the taskbar back
<b1ackcr0w> I've gone seperate /home and have a big touchscreen on my desk
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: and ALT-F2 is broken
<b1ackcr0w> it seemed natural for me to try it
<ali1234> also it still doesn't work in virtualbox, it just restarts unity over and over
<willy1977> natty on vm is working I thought that's what Alan did during the virtual jam?
<ali1234> it's not working for me
<BigRedS> ali1234: it's working for me...
<willy1977> it drops down to a 2d interface?
<b1ackcr0w> i think you can get it going by changin to a different vm bios
<ali1234> no
<BigRedS> ah, yeah, that's the bit that's working forme, the 2d interface
<ali1234> it incorrectly detects that 3d is working and then restarts over and over when it fails
<brobostigon> willy1977: he did, and dfaultedback to gnomeclassic, not unity.
<willy1977> brobostigon: ahhhh... ok
<ali1234> hang on there's some more updates
<ali1234> ok, it's working now
<ali1234> well, sort of
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
 * Azelphur pokes
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> the launcher thing is hiding
<ali1234> it won't come out
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps
<Pendulum> hiya bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hey Pendulum, did I miss much today?
<Pendulum> bigcalm: I doubt it
<ali1234> here's a puzzler for you: http://imagebin.org/146499
<BigRedS> wanting to unmaximise firefox is such a rare use-case, though
<BigRedS> :)
<bigcalm> I just went to the top right to minimize chrome :(
<ali1234> the new start menu thing is just awful
<ali1234> btw what are these things called?
<ali1234> how am i supposed to switch between applications when i have a window maximized?
<ali1234> lol the window switcher is broken
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<ali1234> oh, it's cos i have one of the apps marked always on top
<ali1234> ah, another problem: how do i access the menu you get when right clicking the window title if the window is maximized?
<BigRedS> hah, I've started using that start menu in place of the normal Gnome set of three
<ali1234> it's bad for the simple reason that i don't do any of the things it wants me to
<BigRedS> Ah, I find it good 'cause it lets me have a narrower panel :)
<ali1234> and you can't edit it
<BigRedS> I lauch pretty much everything from alt+f2, so it's only there for just-in-case
<ali1234> "view photos" "check email" "listen to music" - well, i don't use the default apps for any of those things
<BigRedS> Oh, I assumed there'd be an editor for it in unity
<ali1234> so pretty much the whole first page of it is jut a waste of my time
<ali1234> then when you dig deeper it just gets worse
<ali1234> every page has a MRU list
<ali1234> which means the icons constantly move around
<ali1234> so you can't learn where they are
<ali1234> then you have a row for "installed" which is fine
<BigRedS> Hm. I think I need to spend more time using it to get a proper opinion
<BigRedS> but you are putting me off doing so somewhat :)
<ali1234> except it only shows the first few things, most of which are not the thing i'm looking for, and then i have to expand it out
<ali1234> if you use the menu editor to hide the things you don't want, it only seems to affect the classic gnome menu, not unity
<ali1234> so if i don't want to see eg "remote desktop viewer" on unity menu, i have to uninstall it completely i guess
<BigRedS> that's a bit dumb
<ali1234> then there's the "apps available for download" bit
<BigRedS> is this all in bugs already?
<ali1234> it's like, rather than show me what i have installed and therefore probably want to use, it's going to show me a bunch of stuff i have chosen not to install, and therefore probably do not want to use
<ali1234> these aren't bugs, these are someone's idea of features
<BigRedS> yeah, it's that assumption that you're not intelligent enough to realise you can install stuff and need constantly reminding of it
<BigRedS> It's like the "Your system's too free. Have a binary blob graphics driver" popups you've had for a while
<ali1234> not only that but if i want one of those programs and install it, it just excacerbates the problem of NOT showing installed programs in lieu of uninstalled ones, since there's always going to be more stuff that i've not installed
<ali1234> i might see "amazing app x" in that bit, install it, then it will disappear into the "click here to show 7364 more apps" part
<ali1234> yeah i don't mind that graphics driver popup because i do actually use that driver
<ali1234> i only see it once per install... if there was a popup for every single thing that i haven't installed (which is what this effectively is) then ... that's different
<BigRedS> yeah, maybe it's just as well that I've got into the habit of not using the menus
<ali1234> if these apps are so great why aren't they installed by default over the stuff that's buried in the depths of the "click here for more" part
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Jamming in the UK - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/03/jamming-in-the-uk/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=jamming-in-the-uk
<bigcalm> Sending work emails at 11.45pm, I must be mad
<Pendulum> bigcalm: can it not wait until the morning?
<BigRedS> or fishing for overtime
<bigcalm> Pendulum: unless I get up at 7am (I struggle to get up for 9am). It's sent to my boss for him to convert into a quote for a client. Boss is on the train 1st thing tomorrow morning and he needs it for then. I'm a tad late in getting this email done :)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I don't get paid for overtime, I really should stop working outside of 9-6 mon-fri
<bigcalm> On the laptop in bed with Hayley curled up beside me. Might be time to shut down and get some shut-eye
<bigcalm> Good night kids :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-26
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: You'll like this I think: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Minecraft-Calculator-Graphing-MaxSGB-Scientific,15109.html
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> Morning all
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a way to run time ssh servera /bin/false && time ssh serverb /bin/false on the same gnome-terminal of my desktop ?
<kaushal> similar to sdiff command
<BigRedS> I don't see the similarity
<BigRedS> Oh!
<BigRedS> do you just want the terminal output side-by-side kaushal ?
<BigRedS> Terminator and tmux can each help do that
<kaushal> BigRedS: yes
<kaushal> exactly
<BigRedS> Terminator is a terminal app that can do split screens, so you can have the GUI split
<BigRedS> tmux splits in the terminal itself. It's like screen
<kaushal> any clue about byobu ?
<BigRedS> it's almost exactly screen, just different enough to be confusing
<BigRedS> possibly
<BigRedS> byobu is just screen with fancy config
<kaushal> ok
<BigRedS> adn I know screen can do vertical splits
<BigRedS> but I don't know if the one in the repos can
<BigRedS> or how - I saw I had to build it so I used tmux instead
<kaushal> i launched byobu
<kaushal> how do i split it into two
<mattt> morning all
<BigRedS> kaushal: this might help: http://aperiodic.net/screen/quick_reference
<BigRedS> I don't know how different byobu is
<popey> BigRedS: its not different really
<popey> just screen with some nice added bits, the same shortcuts work given it's the screen binary underneath
<BigRedS> popey: Ahh
<BigRedS> I was under the impression some of the change was to the keybindings
<popey> i use the same key bindings in screen as I do in byobu
<BigRedS> oh, cool
<TheOpenSourcerer> How cool is this guy? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17478070
<oimon> overheard on sunday: "hey i bought a galaxy note", "is that a phone or an ipad?" , "it's an ipad that can make phone calls". "oh i see".
<arsen> lol.
<arsen> <3 people
<oimon> <3 teenagers
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, people! :D
 * BigRedS notes that the next oggcamp isn't going to be oggcamp 110 after all :(
<popey> âº
<BigRedS> haha, are there confirmed dates for it yet?
<bigcalm> Yes, but they are in the background image
<bigcalm> A poor website for the blind
<bigcalm> BigRedS: 110 is 7
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> er, 100
<BigRedS> bigcalm: ^
<BigRedS> There was 1, 10, then 11
<gord> you really would of thought draw something would have more words, how hard is it to find a list of words?
<gord> i mean... work wor
 * BigRedS has no idea what gord is on about
<gord> silly mobile game
<gord> that everyone is playing
<BigRedS> ohhh
<BigRedS> bigcalm: I just saw the dates. I spent a while looking at that page earlier without detecting them
<bigcalm> Maybe a channel topic change would be good to say Oggcamp 18th & 19th August
<sagaci> wasn't oggcamp going to be renamed?
<popey> nope
<popey> we asked for suggestions _if_ we were going to rename it
<sagaci> eh, well I totally misread/heard that
<popey> but nobody came up with a decent one
<Laney> flaccamp
<directhex> WMAcamp.
<directhex> so us windows phone users feel welcome
<sagaci> mp3dom
<sagaci> :D
<gord> ... why didn't you ask me? gordfest it is
<gord> or maybe gordmageddon
<sagaci> flacbang
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: HELLO!
<daubers> I like the fact I can get pictures from my phone to my desktop with U1... I don't like the fact that I can't tell it to put that folder anywhere but my home folder :(
<bittin> Hello
<AlanBell> anyone else getting *** VTE ***: Failed to load terminal capabilities from '/etc/termcap' when launching gnome-terminal today on 12.04
<gord> AlanBell, nope
<AlanBell> bother
<davmor2> bittin: hello
<AlanBell> how on earth did I break that then I wonder
<AlanBell> fixed it, just needed to close all open terminals and reopen one
<Daviey> AlanBell: Do you and of of the other Alan's still care about openerp?
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> all Alans love OpenERP
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey Daviey
<davmor2> AlanBell: that's a lie Alan Turing doesn't give two hoots :P
<AlanBell> davmor2: well doing annual accounts appears to be NP-complete so I think he would approve
<brobostigon> lol
 * bigcalm makes an entrance
<TheOpenSourcerer> call that an entrance bigcalm ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dame Edna Everage does "Entrances"
<davmor2> AlanBell: :D
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer / AlanBell: If the latest openerp was to be in precise, would you be happy?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Daviey: I would be no less or more happy than I am right now.
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer: oh, won't bother then :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fabien at OpenERP s.a. might be more happy though.
<AlanBell> server or client?
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer: would you be willing to test a package?
<Daviey> AlanBell: server
<Daviey> hmm, maybe client aswell
<TheOpenSourcerer> But what happens in less than 5 years when the next major version or OpenERP comes out?
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\of
<AlanBell> client would be more useful than the server to be packaged I think
<TheOpenSourcerer> +1 AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> Jorge suggested we right a "charm" for JuJu based on our installation instructions.
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer: if it were me, i'd pin deployments to 2 yearly updates :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> But upgrading OpenERP is non-trivial.
<Daviey> exactly :)
<TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: Hi
<AlanBell> well you could package it with the version number
<AlanBell> so you would have a package for the 6.0.x series and one for the 6.1.x series
<AlanBell> upgrades between them are done by a hosted migration service that openERP provide to people who buy the subscription
<Daviey> AlanBell: looking at 6.1 snapshot for precise.
<TonyNorfolk> Is anyone brilliant with plymouth - I adjusted it and it now looks aweful.
<MartijnVdS> TonyNorfolk: aweful? That's a mix between awesome and awful? :P
<BigRedS> I still maintain that those two words should be synonymous
<TonyNorfolk> MartijnVds: Lol - good spot!
<kirrus> BigRedS: You mean, awesome/awful, or aweful/awful should be synonymous?
<BigRedS> kirrus: awesome and awful
<kirrus> but.. they're polar opposites!
<BigRedS> Yeah, and I think that's wrong
<kirrus> why?
<Daviey> cd MartijnVdS
<Daviey> err, wrong window, and bad tab completion
<BigRedS> oo-er
<BigRedS> kirrus: Because 'awe some' and 'awe ful' are much the same
<Laney> awenone
<BigRedS> etymologically they shouldn't be opposites
<daubers> MartijnVdS isn't a directory! He's a number!
<BigRedS> it doesn't help that neither really means anything to do with awe any more
<BigRedS> so we have 'awe-inspiring' instead
<kirrus> BigRedS: when has the english language ever made sense?
<dwatkins> ls -l Daviey
<BigRedS> kirrus: It never has, that's why I have all these patches to submit to it
<kirrus> BigRedS: when you rule the world... maybe ;)
<bittin> The Precise beta works awesome :)
<bittin> and changed to a wm you can actully use apart from Unity Openbox ftw :)
<BigRedS> I've got really bored of thinking about WMs. I think I preferred it when nobody cared.
<ali1234> back when managing windows was the primary function of the WM
<dwatkins> looks like this summer's going to be pretty hot, it's sunny and warm even in Edinburgh today and it's barely spring.
<BigRedS> It's summer
<BigRedS> that's what happened on saturday night
<BigRedS> summer started
<dwatkins> oh, I didn't realise summer started so early, though it was only just spring
<BigRedS> summer begins when summertime starts, winter begins when summertime ends
<BigRedS> spring and autumn are myths
<dwatkins> ah
<dwatkins> it's like someone flipped a switch, we had a right pea-souper of fog on Saturday, then Sunday was sunny and warm
<BigRedS> We had _really_ dense fog in the morning on saturday, but by about midday it felt like summer
<dwatkins> in Edinburgh, the fog lasted all day, which was surreal
<BigRedS> actually, what was really weird here was how quick it came in - I looked outside, confirmed it was a nice day, put my bike sutff on and stepped out into the fog
<selinuxium> Hmm... Latest update killed my unity...
<selinuxium> now runnign 2d..
<selinuxium> running even...
<Laney> seems like a bit of a rocky one
<selinuxium> I take it there have been other reports then...
<selinuxium> Haven't had a chance to look yet.. Been fighting trying to get 3d up..
<popey> selinuxium: unity --reset
<selinuxium> popey: from within 2d or command line at broken 3d?
<popey> latter
<popey> login to unity 3d, then switch to tty and login and run that
<popey> switch back to F7 and you're done
<selinuxium> Ok dokey... ttfn  :)
<davmor2> selinuxium: what is the issue is it lots of gfx artifacts etc if so there is a bug for it, if it is that you are possibly better off in 2d for now
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 and goes back to work,inbox 0 :) 
<davmor2> czajkowski: yeah inbox 0 every other folder has a 1000+ unanswered though right :D
<czajkowski> nope :)
<czajkowski> inbox ninja
<davmor2> czajkowski: yeah yeah I've told you before that means mrevell isn't giving you enough work :P
<czajkowski> :p
<davmor2> czajkowski: have a hug for all the hard work
<selinuxium> cheers popey, all sorted now.  Wondering if unity is aware it can't start?
<mrevell> davmor2, czajkowski is working very hard :)
<selinuxium> czajkowski, Have a hug because I haven't seen you in ages!
<czajkowski> *hugs*
<selinuxium> popey, then perhaps it could run unity --reset on it's own...
<davmor2> mrevell: I know see my last statement I just enjoy winding her up :D  czajkowski doesn't bite anymore though so it's not as much fun :)
<mrevell> davmor2, She's too busy to bite :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: not sent you to the naughty step this year
<davmor2> mrevell: hahaha
<davmor2> czajkowski: true mind you I've been pretty busy too so the two competing won't help
<davmor2> where is MooDoo
<gord> its nice to see OpenTTD as one of the highest rated games in software centre :) sure played a lot of transport tycoon in the 90s
<Myrtti> gord: waiting for corsix-th to be included as well
<gord> Myrtti, hoping someone can re-create the datafiles under a re-distributable licence so people can play it without the original game :)
<gord> and if someone wants to go ahead and make an open source dungeon keeper, i think we are set
<davmor2> gord: that's your next project sorted then right :D
<gord> i tried to once years ago :P data files are encrypted :(
<davmor2> gord: back in the 90's right so might work flawlessly in dosbox then :D
<gord> it does :)
<davmor2> gord: end of problem then
<gord> wellll not really, small resolution, looks bad on LCD's (back on crt wasn't a problem) and drains battery way too much if i want to play on the laptop
<gord> #firstworldproblems
<davmor2> popey: have a look at http://apps.ubuntu.com it's a bit better now :)
<davmor2> popey: although you still get all reviews for now
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Integrating Your App Into Unity - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/26/integrating-your-app-into-unity/
 * bigcalm boogies to some Electric Six
<bigcalm> It's quiet in here today
<czajkowski> monday busy times
<davmor2> bigcalm: BOO!
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I guess that's why I haven't chatted much in here either :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: erm, eek?
<bigcalm> Half an hour left to the day \o/
<davmor2> bigcalm: sorry I was just making some noise :D
<bigcalm> Though I've just the last of the milk from the fridge. Hayley might be a little miffed at not having a cuppa tea when she gets in
<davmor2> bigcalm: Don't worry flowers are cheaper now so I don't mind attending the funeral :)
<bigcalm> Fnar
<bigcalm> The excitement I feel when I hear the "pop" of new email arriving gets dashed when it turns out to be yet another system report
<davmor2> bigcalm: if you want I can forward some of mine onto you and you can see if you can fix it if you want? :D
<bigcalm> Oh, is that the time
<bigcalm> Gotta run
<davmor2> bigcalm: wuss
<mrevell> Anyone else got a Viglen MPC and wondering what to do with it now that 10.04 is the last LTS that'll run on it? I know I have three years before I have to look another OS altogether but the thing has always been too damn slow to be that useful, anyway :)
<davmor2> mrevell: can't you drop lubuntu on it
<mrevell> davmor2, Is lubuntu retaining support for i586? Ooh, if so, yeah, that's an idea.
<davmor2> mrevell: ah pass
<mrevell> 10.04 has three years left on the server, anyway, so I'm not in a rush to find an alternative. It's more than I'm trying to talk myself out of buying an HP Microserver :)
<mgdm> I might put straight Debian on mine
<mgdm> Unless that has been rebuilt to preclude <586
 * bittin listning to 50 Hertz
<mgdm> I never found mains hum all that good to listen to
<zleap> can someone help me with libreoffice i have a docx file saved as odf, but am getting read only elements that I can't edit,  it means I can't add new rows to a table etc
<Nafallo> popey: any news on working unity/compiz/nux/bamf? :-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: it broke?
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: yeah
 * MartijnVdS postpones rebooting
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: which bit
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: unity/compiz interaction most likely
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: some people was left with blank screen. mine kept flickering a lot
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: I have the flickering on my laptop
<MartijnVdS> Gym time :|
<popey> Nafallo: unity --reset âº
<popey> Nafallo: should all be fine if you do a --reset
<popey> mrevell: buy a microserver âº
<Nafallo> popey: ah. thanks. I'll try that in a bit
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tolworth  25th March 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=137
<Myrtti> I wonder if Womens Institute is approximately what I think it is
<Myrtti> reading Wikipedia it appears so
<daubers> Muder is still illegal right?
<daubers> s/Muder/Murder
<directhex> Mulder?
<daubers> Moida
<davmor2> man they made the x-files illegal.......
<diplo> evening all
<davmor2> diplo: is a copper careful what you say
<diplo> ?
 * diplo lost
<diplo> ah I get you :)
 * diplo is tired, just fought putting the kids to bed
<czajkowski> mmmm pizza
<diplo> Home made I hope!
<ging> 67
<Azelphur> Incoming longquestion :o
<ging> stupid tabs
<Azelphur> so, if everybody is bored, I'm thinking about some stuff, as everybody knows I run game servers, we're starting to shift quite a lot of large files, up to 50MB a pop to every client that connects, and we want to start mirroring for some projects, etc...Currently we have the webserver up on the same dedicated server that's running the game servers, but I have a feeling that the webservers traffic will start effecting the game servers. So I'm wondering...
<Azelphur> should I aim at rate limiting the webserver? (I don't think this would work too well as everybody needs to download the map at the same time), What about the cheap managed hosting plans, will they get angry if I start passing 2TB+/mo bandwidth through them? Any other suggestions?
<diplo> heh was going to suggest using godaddy accounts or something
<czajkowski> diplo: no chance
<Azelphur> lol godaddy xD
<diplo> I like home made ones
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: which games?
<diplo> No limits Azelphur, I know they have there issues and I am moving away from them atm but bandy wise if you are just linking files
<Azelphur> gordonjcp: currenty TF2 shifts the most traffic, We're beta testing minecraft atm and then we're just gonna keep on adding games at infinitum while mirroring for projects relevant to those games
<BigRedS> How often does the data change? CDN?
<Azelphur> diplo: yea, I'm thinking map change = 75% of players have to download the new map? = 24 people all trying to get a 50MB file at 50mbit? nearly 3 minutes just for a mapchange...bad >.<
<Azelphur> BigRedS: CDN is an option, but they are a bit dark magic to me I don't fully understand it
<Azelphur> plus, I'm very low budget
<diplo> I suppose, are they maps hosted by other game server people ?
<Azelphur> I did the math for Amazon S3 and it'd totally nuke my budget
<diplo> Link them to multiplay's files :D
<Azelphur> diplo: haha, clearly you missed out on the whole "hotlinking is a bad idea" lesson :P
<diplo> Or chat with Wizzo/Killing about it
<diplo> Wizzo is a good bloke, really helpful
<Azelphur> who is wizzo?
<BigRedS> Yeah, CDNs are cheaper than S3
<diplo> Owner of Multiplay
<BigRedS> they're also slower to update
<diplo> Run the 1-2k people lans ?
<BigRedS> so if you've new files every several days they're alright, but if you're constantly updating files they're less good
<BigRedS> Not sure on precise pricing, though. I've never paid for one :)
<Azelphur> BigRedS: how slow are we talking? I mean we're talking similar to apt for example, there will be software, the software will have updates.
<diplo> http://www.multiplaygameservers.com/
<Azelphur> diplo: yea I know multiplay :)
<BigRedS> Ah, the speed of the update is fast, it's the frequency with which you can do it that's limited
<diplo> Well Wizzo is the owner reall name Craig, and the guy who designed clanforge and does most of the game server wizardry is Killing ( Real name Steve )
<diplo> Good nice guys
<Azelphur> diplo: hehe, fun :)
<diplo> See if they can help you out ?
<diplo> You do it for fun dont you ? Not profit
<Azelphur> BigRedS: yea, so the question is really if something like APT could be done via a CDN, because it should be a similar update frequency really
<BigRedS> you'ld have somewhere hosting the files, and point teh CDN at them. Periodically, you can expire the cache on the files to force the CDN to recollect the files rather than serving out of cache any more
<Azelphur> diplo: Both, although I don't earn any money atm I'd like to XD
<mgdm> expiring files on a CDN is sometimes expensive
<mgdm> they prefer you just to upload new files with different names
<BigRedS> oh yeah
<mgdm> doing a cache purge is something you tend to only get a limited number of per month
<Azelphur> what sorta price would this be anyway?
<brobostigon> what does prorata mean?
<Azelphur> proportional ratio?
<mgdm> brobostigon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_rata explains it better than I could
<mgdm> atually, no it doesn;t
<brobostigon> :(
<mgdm> what's the context?
<brobostigon> mgdm: me wanting two staggered invoice periods combined.
<Azelphur> well, apparently my dedicated server provider solved that problem before I had it
<Azelphur> "yo we sold you 100mbit but...yea your on 1gbit, enjoy."
<BigRedS> handy!
<Azelphur> that explains why I was able to do a 32MB/sec download the other day
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I shall rate limit my webserver to something like 500mbit/sec, and laugh.
<Azelphur> and my dedicated provider has decent bandwidth overcharges too, so I should be fine even if I start poking the 5TB limit
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: only 500? :)
<Azelphur> haha
 * MartijnVdS pokes a server at work
<MartijnVdS> and another
<MartijnVdS> and another
<Azelphur> :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: working at one of the country's biggest isps :)
<Azelphur> >.<
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: but I have the quality? InterNAP NYC Tier 1 ;)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: We're the ISP that grew from a bunch of hackers back in '93... and they don't like slow downloads :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I have no idea how much up/downstream we have and from where, but gigabits = peanuts
<Azelphur> indeed, xs4all is awesome, I'm not even in NL and I know of them and some of the cool stuff they do
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: :) Cool
<MartijnVdS> Still waiting for the fibre company (which is separate...) to install the fibre though.. it's 7 floors down. I can _see_ it, it has my address on it.
<MartijnVdS> it's taunting me :(
<mgdm> am I the only one who's reasonably happy if he has more than about 8mbit?
<Azelphur> haha
<mgdm> I could get 50mbit or even 100 where I am, I just can't really be bothered
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: I want to upload photos and videos sometimes. At 1mbit/s that's a bit horrible
<BigRedS> mgdm: nope. I've no idea what I'm on
<BigRedS> but it lets me download bits of the Internet so I'm happy
<mgdm> I'd have to upgrade all my stuff (everything I have is on 11g just now)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: at 500/500 it shouldn't be a problem anymore
<mgdm> I barely download anything
<mgdm> and only upload stuff to Flickr, periodically
<Azelphur> I'd love faster internet
<Azelphur> Uploads are really painful on ADSL
<Nafallo> popey: just to confirm. I want the latest -proposed, reboot and then unity --reset once logged in to the strobo-desktop?
<Azelphur> I would do so many cool things if I had fast upload
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I'd back up my NAS to an identical one at my parents' place for one
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and the other way around
<Nafallo> hmm. new unity. maybe not.
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I'd like to use my bitcoin cluster to do a super-super HD render of my minecraft map
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (note: we have no bandwidth usage limits)
<Nafallo> and compiz as well it seems...
<Azelphur> but the upload would be terabytes
<czajkowski> popey: who does andy piper now work for ?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Run it like Google Maps
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: with tiling etc.
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: is your laptop still flickering? :-)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: we do
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: I'm on my desktop atm, laptop is off
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://map.minecraft.azelphur.com/ pop the sidebar out on the right and click PvE :P
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: well, whichever was flickering before... is it fixed now? ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: *sigh* I'll go turn it on
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: gratzie
<MartijnVdS> Upgradink..
<popey> Nafallo: ya
<popey> czajkowski: not sure he's publicly announced yet
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: there's no new unity in my upgrade list
<Nafallo> hmm. weird.
<Nafallo> Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise/main unity i386 5.8.0-0ubuntu2 [1,192 kB]
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: ah, I'm using a mirror
<MartijnVdS> rechecking
<popey> 5.8 is latest
<Nafallo> popey: there are at least two 5.8.0 ;-)
<czajkowski> popey: bugger
<czajkowski> cheers
<popey> czajkowski: why?
<czajkowski> need speakers for limerick conference
<popey> ahh
<czajkowski> am trying to rack my brains here
<czajkowski> need an ARM speeaker also
<czajkowski> rasbery pi
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: have you talked to the RPi people? They seem very "talkative" lately
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: I'm still amazed at a bug with this much impact being introduced this late in the cycle
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: yeah, same here.
<MartijnVdS> Oh hey 5.8.0-0ubuntu2
 * Nafallo looks at changelogs
<MartijnVdS> logging out & back in again, brb
<zleap> what exactly is that pop out side bar thingy in unity called ?
<MartijnVdS> still blinky von blinkenstein
<MartijnVdS> zleap: sidebar?
<gordonjcp> zleap: lots of things, few of them repeatable in a channel where people love the CoC
<Nafallo> launcher?
<MartijnVdS> Icon tray?
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: 8-)
<gordonjcp> I tend to call it an ill-designed buggy piece of foolishness
<zleap> i need one for windows,  i am so used to it that when i use windows i put my mouse cursor on the left hand side, expecting to see it, LOL
<MartijnVdS> zleap: Use Windows 7, its task bar works almost the same
<Nafallo> right. I'm upgrading, and will tickle popey half to death if this fails on me again.
<MartijnVdS> zleap: if you put it on the left
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: only half?
<zleap> the main issue i have is that when i er go to close an app it appears covering the close button
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: I want him alive... he's good to blame for shit ;-)
<daftykins> czajkowski: are you back there now? i was in Limerick for the first time at the start of March :O
<zleap> MartijnVdS, you mean i can move it
<czajkowski> daftykins: nope but running a conference there in october
<MartijnVdS> zleap: the Windows task bar? Of course, after you unlock it
<gord> i set my windows 7 task bar on the left to try and get the same experience, its not, its just infuriating
<zleap> i meant the unity one
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: looks like the latest compiz will fix the screen corruption by doing what popey said automatically :-P
<daftykins> czajkowski: neat
 * zleap has xp
<zleap> and ubuntu
<daftykins> i heard it's the stabby capital of Ireland
<MartijnVdS> zleap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtphSIeMstY
<MartijnVdS> zleap: now you'll hear them sing "Lock the taskbar" forver
<MartijnVdS> +e
<zleap> lol
<zleap> like start me up by the rolling stones
<gord> if thats adam and joe, then you are mean :P
<gord> you can't forget that
<zleap> anyway as I hardly use windows its not exactly a big issue
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: the clash - rock the cabah
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> gord:
<zleap> it was more of a comment on how ubuntu has affected me
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: nooooooo!
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: LOCK THE TASKBAR
<zleap> start me up
<zleap> you have to click start to close me down LOL
<daftykins> rock the taskbar :( no wait...
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: :-)
<gordonjcp> tune
 * zleap waits for a comment on that one
<MartijnVdS> zleap: at least you don't have to drag it to the trash to unmount
<MartijnVdS> zleap: talk about awkward dates
<zleap> you mean you have to do that on windows or linux
<MartijnVdS> zleap: macos
<zleap> ah
<zleap> sorry
<daftykins> zleap: i heard that from a colleague of my dads a bit ago, very true that you click start to stop... :>
<zleap> it is still the case as you click start shutdown
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: well it's sort of logical.. "I want to start the bit of software that stops the computer"
<zleap> only the start button is no longer says start on it,
<MartijnVdS> also, just press the power button.. it'll pop up a question or just shut down properly
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: yeah, you also start shutting down don't you :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: exactly
<daftykins> zleap: although they renamed it 'the orb'
<zleap> ah
<daftykins> so yeah there's nothing start-like about it anymore XD
<zleap> right that is catchy
<zleap> i will stick to unity
<zleap> or kde or anything Linux based
<Nafallo> daftykins: heh, someone read too much david eddings ;-)
<MartijnVdS> FVWM95
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: working?
<zleap> yeah
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: no, still blinky mcblinkenstein
<zleap> ohh notice the day
<daftykins> Nafallo: who?
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: 5.8.0-0ubuntu2 that is
<zleap> 26th March,  1 month to go till 12.04
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: and compiz?
<zleap> :D
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: uhrrr...
<Nafallo> Get:9 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise-proposed/main compiz all 1:0.9.7.2-0ubuntu2 [3,288 B]
<MartijnVdS> precise-proposed?
<MartijnVdS> I don't have that!
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: heh
<zleap> precise pengolian
<zleap> or something
<zleap> pangolion
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: that's the one that is supposed to fix the flicker, fwiw. according to the changelog :-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Oh woo. Also the blank screen thing?
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: yeah. it basically resets compiz to default on upgrade ;-)
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> instead of fixing the REAL problem
<MartijnVdS> GOOGLE'S APT SERVER, Y U SLOW
<Nafallo> haha
<Nafallo> yeah
<gord> googles apt server runs on a 56k i swear
<Nafallo> quite
<MartijnVdS> gord: I heard it's 14k4
<gord> and MartijnVdS that is called unblocking so you can spend more time figuring out the real fix ;)
<Nafallo> gord: are you sure they are not using an ARM-board to host it? ;-)
<MartijnVdS> gord: What do they call not breaking it in the first place? :)
<gord> a world where software is made by perfect beings, probably deep thought
<MartijnVdS> gord: I think we've had this discussion before.. :) I kind of like full test suite runs on every commit :)
<gord> we have that
<Nafallo> hmm
<gord> but a test suite only tests what you know - it doesn't test what you don't know
<Nafallo> staging archive for certification/qa to run the things?
<gord> yeah, don't quote me on the specifics, but a solution along those lines, problems come about when things like this are found a few days before a release
<MartijnVdS> Woo, working Unity
<MartijnVdS> Time to fix it again..
<MartijnVdS> wow, even alt+stuff works when you disable HUD
<Nafallo> meh. I just didn another apt-get update, and guess what... yet another compiz
<zleap> lol
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: don't suppose you happen to know much about tc?
<Azelphur> seems like it might be in your field :P
<Nafallo> right. time to try a reboot.
<Nafallo> might bbiab... ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: tc? traffic control? the qos tool?
<daftykins> top cat of course!
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yep
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://lartc.org/ :)
<jacobw> rtfm
<Azelphur> trying to figure out how I might rate limit my webserver
<Azelphur> oh god but the manual is scary >.<
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Not as scary as sudoers
<jacobw> its queue discipline
<Azelphur> lol
<daftykins> Azelphur: put it on dialup
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I'd start with trying to find a module for the webserver to limit bandwidth
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: failing that, http://lartc.org/howto/lartc.qdisc.html
<Azelphur> yea, I asked in nginx and they wern't very useful, I did some googling and couldn't find one, I don't think there is one
<Nafallo> oh. latest updates seems to work.
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: Queue discipline sounds very British to me :)
<jacobw> :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<Nafallo> popey: seems it's fixed in the archives :-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: yeah, it resets unity/compiz, as gord said.. so bye bye customizations
<jacobw> i actually listened to a podcast episode about queueing on friday
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: yeah :-)
<jacobw> it was very interesting /o\
<bigcalm> popey: AlanBell: christel: where's nice to stay in Farnham?
<daftykins> at least it would've been if you ever reached the head of the queue?
<daftykins> (sorry)
<jacobw> haha
<daftykins> oh lawd
<daftykins> i just got reminded i got asked to be my brothers best man at his wedding in September
<AlanBell> bigcalm: this place is interesting http://www.hoteldevie.com/leisure/faqs.html#swingers-hotel-myth
<daftykins> not that i hugely know what it involves but i don't like such things :P
<jacobw> its time to write a speech
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it involves getting drunk
<daftykins> only one of those sounds do-able
<daftykins> :>
<jacobw> more or less so than the groom?
<jacobw> ones supposes the groom has an incentive to be not too drunk
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: Hence the responsibility of the best man
<jacobw> fascinating
<MartijnVdS> Also, if you're into that, the bride's single friends
 * jacobw is attending a wedding in june
<bigcalm> AlanBell: haha, thanks :)
<daftykins> heh i sense they'll mostly be Guernsey girls, so... ;)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: is that a bad thing? :)
<daftykins> sometimes :>
<daftykins> mostly
<daftykins> well of course i'm crazy myself too
<daftykins> ;D
<MartijnVdS> if you say so
<Azelphur> haha, just tested my 1gbit connection, I just downloaded Ubuntu 12.04 precise from a mirror in 14 seconds at 59.3MB/sec
<bigcalm> AlanBell: that amusing bit of info to one side, sounds like a nice place
<AlanBell> yeah, quite convenient for the station
<bigcalm> AlanBell: Hayley and I have the week booked off after the RAT, so our options are open as to what to do
<bigcalm> We're in no rush to get home
<jacobw> to where is you gigabit connection?
<MartijnVdS> THE WORLD
<MartijnVdS> *cough*
<jacobw> zzz
<jacobw> :)
<bigcalm> Looking at Hotel de Vie on google maps has the info snippit of "bed and breakfasts Â· egyptian cotton Â· erotic art Â· biscuits Â· individually themed"
<bigcalm> Biscuits?
<AlanBell> to go with the tea
<bigcalm> Phew
<bigcalm> AlanBell: have you seen the standard fitting (apart from one) in the rooms? http://www.hoteldevie.com/leisure/rooms/index.html
<AlanBell> not in person, no
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Maybe that's part of the swinging myth
<bigcalm> Or partial cause
<AlanBell> but you can tell us all about it afterwards
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> !info ike
<lubotu3> ike (source: ike): Shrew Soft VPN client - Daemon and libraries. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.1.7+dfsg-1build1 (oneiric), package size 221 kB, installed size 636 kB
<bigcalm> Anybody used an IPsec VPN client in Ubuntu or Debian via the CLI?
<bigcalm> I have to set up 2 external connections, one by IPsec, one by PPTP
<Azelphur> grrr, this is getting frustrating, I'm still trying to find out how to do bandwidth throttling with nginx, it seems like it's the only webserver that doesn't have an option for it
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> nginx is bound to a ip address on an interface shared with other processes?
<Azelphur> jacobw: yea, but it obviously has it's own port
<mgdm> I'd argue that traffic shaping is better done in something like iptables, but that's just me
<Azelphur> yea, that's what they say
<Azelphur> only thing is I don't really want to have to read the entire iptables manual just to figure out how to do this
<Azelphur> plus I really don't like playing with iptables because if I break my network access to the machine I'm locked out
<mgdm> also my web servers generally want to operate as fast as possible, and sod the bandwith :P
<Azelphur> yea, I have other services running on the same box
<Azelphur> so I need the web server to not be able to choke them
<jacobw> tc
<Azelphur> jacobw: yea, but again the manual for that is absolutely beastly
 * bigcalm grumbles
<mgdm> Azelphur: http://lartc.org/howto/lartc.ratelimit.single.html
<Azelphur> I don't wanna have to read like 400 pages of manual just to put a rate limit on a web server
<bigcalm> If Whisky Web wasn't in the middle of a rather large project, I might have been able to get my boss to pay for me to attend
<mgdm> Azelphur: you'll want to fiddle with the match clause in the last command
<mgdm> bigcalm: :(
<bigcalm> :( indeed
<Azelphur> mgdm: can that be modified to only do a specific interface/port?
<bigcalm> I'm going to be demob happy at the end of April
<Azelphur> or rather, interface+port, since I only want a specific interface, specific ports
<mgdm> Azelphur: $DEV is the interface, the 'match ip dst' bit is the port
<Azelphur> match ip dst seems to show an IP though
<mgdm> Azelphur: RTFM, below
<Azelphur> haha ok, reading \o/
<mgdm> Azelphur: it links to the bit on writing match clauses
<Azelphur> mgdm: is that example for guarenteed minimum bandwidth? or does it actually limit
<Azelphur> I'm trying it locally but I seem to be able to exceed the limit
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/7xCcgJes is what I'm doing
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Once upon a time in Cardiff - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/03/26/once-upon-a-time-in-cardiff/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=once-upon-a-time-in-cardiff
<ali1234> Azelphur: this is where having loads and loads of IPs comes in handy
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> unfortunately, I don't
<ali1234> well you used to
<Azelphur> yea, now I have 5 \o/
<Azelphur> and I have other services on all of them
<daftykins> nn all \o
<jacobw> NAT/vhosts?
<anusha> anusharang
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-27
<mattt> *yawn*
<christel> bigcalm: the only place i have stayed is the bishops table in town, which is nice (and does nice food) -- bar that i have no idea (though i am sure the two of you can stay at ours if you like) :)
<Myrtti> bigcalm: we actually stayed in the swing hotel for oggcamp, it was a nice hotel
<DJones> Morning all
<AlanBell> good news everyone! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17511011
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<diplo> yeah and one sentence mentioning the amount of sugar
<diplo> Gotta love those studies
<popey> morning
<bigcalm> christel: Myrtti: thanks :) Plenty of time to find somewhere. This year's oggcamp will be another drain on the wallet, fun though :)
<bigcalm> Morning all
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I don't know if I can justify this years, on the weekend before I'll be attending my birthday present of participating to an archeological dig in the Fens
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> What a cool present
<bigcalm> Myrtti: how young will you be?
<Myrtti> http://digventures.com/2012/03/04/venturer-profile-miia-myrtti-ranta/
<Myrtti> 32
<bigcalm> Yay
<Myrtti> and also the engagement ring will be a bit more than we planned so I'll try not to suggest overly expensive stuff for him to get for a few years
<Myrtti> but it will be amazing so it's ok.
<Myrtti> :-P
<bigcalm> :)
<gord> wow thats a great gift idea, more dig sites should do it
<JamesTait> Morning all! :D
<bigcalm> Morning
<Myrtti> whut "Rovio (demoscene company, Angry Birds) buying Futuremark (demoscene company, 3DMark etc) - great news =)"
<BigRedS> parse error: unexpected ) on line 1
<Myrtti> dotwaffle isn't online
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: ...
<Myrtti> http://www.rovio.com/en/news/press-releases/147/rovio-entertainment-acquires-futuremark-games-studio
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I tried to do the maths in that sentence and my brain didn't like it
<BigRedS> I've no idea why I presumed it was maths
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<oimon> why is it good news?
<popey> Myrtti: rovio was born out of the demoscene?
<gord> I'm really not sure what to think about the guys that made second reality working for angry birds...
<gord> without second reality i wouldn't have half the skill set i do
<Myrtti> oimon: quote from dotwaffle's tweet
<oimon> Myrtti, ah
<Myrtti> popey: everything <25 years old is born out of demoscene here pretty much, in one way or another. All selfrespecting geeks attend Assembly Summer at some point and make contacts with people there
<gord> everything < 25 years old here is born out of kids making zx spectrum games for Â£200 a pop
<Myrtti> gord: in here the kids went to Assembly and displayed their stuff there
<Myrtti> and in fact, they still do!
<popey> \o/ Bassetts_
<Myrtti> http://pouet.net/party.php?which=7
<Myrtti> well, <20 years
<gord> demo scene is different these days, computers are way too powerful ;)
<oimon> now that oggcamp is in liverpool , any suggestions about a similar alternate event in the south that i can attend?
<gordonjcp> oimon: oggcamp is in the south
<BigRedS> gordonjcp: no it isn't
<BigRedS> :)
<oimon> not this year
<popey> here we go
<gordonjcp> oimon: it's in Liverpool, it's well south
<oimon> south of the north pole, yes
<BigRedS> Liverpool's way north!
<BigRedS> it's past birmingham!
<Myrtti> it's in westcoast.
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: that's hardly any distance at all
<Myrtti> case closed.
<oimon> if (talkfunny) then location=north
<BigRedS> oimon: or location=westCountry
<BigRedS> Basically, once you go North out of the M25 you're in "The North"
<BigRedS> that's what the signs on the motoroway say
<oimon> what's worse, my wife says i should be taking her to paris instead now. all because of oggcamp
<gordonjcp> Paris is good
<popey> s/worse/better/
<DJones> Which venue has been selected for Oggcamp
<popey> see oggcamp.org
<popey> (scroll down)
<DJones> Ah, I looked at the page, didn't think to scroll down, just thought it was a static page with a picture on it
<Myrtti> popey: http://www.gigantti.fi/search?WFSimpleSearch_NameOrID=nokia+n9
<Myrtti> :-P
<popey> heh
<DJones> Hmmh, I might manage that depending on holidays, only 30 minutes from home :)
<gordonjcp> hm, okay, okay
<Myrtti> nice, Finland is becoming the dumping ground of obsolete mobile phone platforms.
<gordonjcp> so this year Oggcamp is closer to me than it is to the Farnham Contingent
<bigcalm> Heh
<Myrtti> Blackberry is going to start shipping to Finland.
<Myrtti> yay.
<oimon> bit late for that
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: you can desolder the chips and use them in proper phones
<Myrtti> lol ok so a carrier that no one has ever heard of before will start importing
<Myrtti> nevermind then
<oimon> saw a nokia advert the other day on telly, looked like a MS advert
<directhex> Myrtti, why do you want blackberries?
<oimon> to organise riots
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> crackberries
<Myrtti> directhex: I have *no* idea why *anyone* would want one
<oimon> my 24-month contract is due to end in a couple of months, and i don't want to change phone yet - any recommendations for sim only deals that offer good mobile internet?
<gord> oimon, three are pretty good, 15 quid a month or so, unlimited internet
<oimon> currently pay Â£15pm for 300mins/300texts and 3GB mobile internets
 * popey wonders how mpt got a canonical logo next to his name on reddit
<oimon> but i hardly use the phone
<oimon> to make voice calls or texts
<brobostigon> Â£15pm, 3000 sms, 300 mins, no fup unlimited internet.
<gord> popey, i have one also ;)
<popey> oooh
<oimon> was hoping for cheaper munny
<popey> how?
<directhex> virgin used to do decent internet-mostly sims, but they stopped
<directhex> so three
<gord> popey, www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/l5b3x/members_and_canonical_employees_claim_your_flair/
<oimon> suspicious of three
<directhex> why?
<oimon> a few years ago my friends all bought 3 because they were cheap, then realised the reception was terrible
<directhex> if only orange/t-mobile reception was as good as three, tbh.
<oimon> and couldn't get out of the contract
<shauno> I think when my contract ends, I'm going to get a 3g dongle, pull the sim and ditch the dongle.  the data plans work out much better (here) if they don't know it's going in a phone
<oimon> directhex, i get terrible tmob reception on my train journey
<directhex> wife always has 3g everywhere. i rarely get more than 1 bar of gprs anywhere
<oimon> maybe i'll get a 3 sim and try it out
<directhex> oimon, get a PAYG sim, try it for size?
<gord> 3 reception is pretty good i find, used to be terrible years ago, but not anymore
<directhex> oh, there's also "giffgaff" which is some bull web-only thing on o2
<brobostigon> agreed, three reception, is very good here, only one blackspot that i know of.
<oimon> gord, my bias is based on 5yr ago
<gord> http://www.three.co.uk/_standalone/Coverage_checker_mobile - found that to be pretty accurate
<directhex> physics says o2/voda reception is better than orange/t-mobile
<directhex> wavelengths matter, kiddies!
<oimon> voda = Â£ usually
<directhex> voda is crap for data
<directhex> crap crap crap
<oimon> i'm happy with dodgy reception from t-mob if they offer me a ridiculous deal to stya though
<brobostigon> so was o2, last time i tried o2.
<AlanBell> giffgaff is a better way to get O2
 * oimon is cheapskate
 * AlanBell haz giffgaff promo code probably
<oimon> if i leave my current tmob contract, i'll prob lose my 3gb internet
<oimon> since new customers only get 250 or 500mb i think
<AlanBell> http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/ainebell
<directhex> oimon, they'll offer to keep you. you're paying how much?
<oimon> Â£15pm
<directhex> and you want to pay less than that?
<oimon> yes, coming to end of contract
<oimon> don't use my minutes
<oimon> 3 mobile have a Â£10 pm
<oimon> 1 month rollling
<AlanBell> Â£10 for unlimited internet on giffgaff
<oimon> AlanBell, any mins/texts?
<AlanBell> 250 minutes, unlimited texts
<oimon> sounds good
<oimon> however i'm also considering ditching my landline if poss to do so while keeping broadband
<oimon> my father-in-law recently got virgin fibre and no phone line was required
<oimon> t-mob need to match giffgaff and 3 or lose me then
<brobostigon> i would also be concerned, especially with internet, if there is a FUP.
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: hugs
<oimon> i hate that you have to have a phone line to have broadband
<AlanBell> "Is unlimited really unlimited? The answer is yes, we are unlimited for personal mobile use - but not for commercial and automated use."
<oimon> have to = get stiched up otherwise
<BigRedS> brobostigon: the alternative, though, to a FUP is being affected by somebody else's monopolisation of the connection
<brobostigon> BigRedS: monopolisation of connection ?
<bigcalm> Holiday for 17th & 20th August has been approved for Hayley and myself. Yay for geeky socials
<BigRedS> yeah. At some point any given connection needs to join the rest of the Internet
<BigRedS> if someone's maxing out that connection all by themselves, anybody else sharing it suffers
<popey> What do we think of the HTC Sensation XE?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: good point, so why do three do unlimited internet, without fup. in that case.
<davmor2> finally no more blue indicators woohoo!
<BigRedS> well, either it's actually limited, or there's no guaranteed level of service
<BigRedS> you can't have both
<JamesTait> popey: Hi!
<popey> yo JamesTait
<brobostigon> BigRedS: i have read, the conditions, and beleieve it to be fully unlimited.
<gord> i'm fairly sure that 3g speeds are low enough that abuse isn't a large concern
<AlanBell> BigRedS: who does a guarunteed level of service?
<JamesTait> popey: I just remembered I wanted to ask you something - the EeePC(s?) you upgraded to Precise recently, what model & spec were they?
<popey> JamesTait: Eee 900, 900MHz celeron, 2GB RAM, 16GB SSD
<JamesTait> popey: And it runs well? Unity 2D I presume?
<brobostigon> same model as my eeepc.
<JamesTait> popey: The reason I'm asking is I'm intending to upgrade my wife's EeePC 1005 (or something) with 1GB RAM.
<popey> the 1005 will be ATOM won't it?
<brobostigon> JamesTait: yes, unity-2d works well, infact, so does unity-3d, but alittle on the slower side.
<JamesTait> popey: Correct.
<popey> i have 12.04 on a 1008HA too
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> yo
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka where ya bin
<MooDoo> davmor2: how do, was on a different IRC server checking it out...
<diplo> oimon, you about ?
<iclebyte> has any one ever seen 'rt6_redirect: source isn't a valid nexthop for redirect target' in syslog? I can only seem to find references to the kernel source where the message is and other people asking the same question. I have no way of working out which node is causing this.
<davmor2> MooDoo: server or client and what excuse either way is that to not be in here any how
<MooDoo> davmor2: i was in the smugmug chat room on a different server and yes i know, no excuse
<davmor2> MooDoo: you know the amazing thing about computers is they can do more than one thing at a time,  you can even be in 2 that's right count them 2 irc server at the same time ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: couldn't be bothered to run another screen session with another client....sorry lazy mode off
<davmor2> MooDoo: Why 1 client can connect to multiple servers unless of course irssi is really sucky but I can't see that being the case at all
<MooDoo> davmor2: well i'll be
<oimon> diplo, yes
<diplo> I remember us having a chat about CentOS repos
<diplo> Just wondering what versions you run
<oimon> go on, may jog my memory
<diplo> And size of the repo ?
<diplo> Just trying to work out size requirements to host
<popey> davmor2: i am on 4 networks in irssi
<MooDoo> popey: me being thick, didn't realise you can /connect to multiple servers
<popey> yeah, its not intuitive
<oimon> diplo, do you mean mirrors, or custom repos
<diplo> mirrors sorry
<oimon> i'll check
<oimon> i run sl5 and sl6
<oimon> so not exactly centos but similar
<MooDoo> i use dag and rpmfusion and a few others i think
<diplo> ok, we are just about to move to 6 but we are going to have to mirror 4.8 for customers that will not upgrade
<oimon> 6.x mirrors are 20G, 5.x mirrors are 50G
<oimon> i may have excluded isos
<oimon> /usr/bin/rsync -avzlH --delete --exclude=sites/Fermi --exclude=archive/debuginfo --exclude=archive/obsolete --exclude=iso rsync://rsync.scientificlinux.org/scientific/55/ /mirror/install/mirror55/
<diplo> Yeah I am going to as well
<diplo> ah top man! :)
<diplo> So why do you use SL over Cent ?
<oimon> its an educational institution
<oimon> seems slightly more scietific and research focused
<oimon> not much difference though
<diplo> ah right, so more for basic install of pacakages etc than they are better overall
<oimon> there's not much in it really, but the mailing list is more intelligent
<diplo> heh, I don't use Cent's ML and there irc channel is either full of ignorant people or why are you running that blah blah
<diplo> I use the web for 95% of my answers i suppose
<oimon> SL is mostly mailing list, but there is a forum i don't really use much
<oimon> most SL users seem to use them as server
<oimon> centos can be a mixture, including a bunch of numptys
<oimon> when centos delayed, i saw a lot of numptys come to SL
<diplo> My biggest issue is we have customers that will not upgrade the OS
<diplo> but want to run our new app
<oimon> reason?
<diplo> But it's dependant on php5.3
<gord> as a test i've been not using menus at all for the past 2-3 weeks or so, just using hud. not sure hud can replace menus fully yet, but for 99% of stuff i found it way easier to use the keyboard :)
<diplo> It works is the main reason and they don't want to spend money
<diplo> This is a rather tight trade to work in...
<diplo> Our software now runs on Cent6, but the customers ask why do we need to upgrade if it still works
<popey> gord: when i installed hud I realised about a week later that I almost never use menus âº
<popey> i had to do some fuzzing effect in gimp the other day and went "oooh ooh! I can use hud for this!"
<popey> and did
<gord> popey, yeah i find that too, apart from indicators
<popey> i forget to use hud for indicators
 * Laney can't see any menus atm
<Laney> firefox, terminal, emacs - all hidden
<popey> i want to do "alt, play" and it play rhythmbox
<gord> could you not press the play button on your keyboard?
 * oimon notices for the first time he has a play button on his keyboard
<oimon> doesnt work :(
<popey> i get a "no entry" type sign pop up
<popey> (rb isnt open)
<gord> you need to have rb already running i think, or something else that accepts the key
<popey> i just pressed play on the sound menu and it opened rb
<popey> but doesnt play anything
<popey> that doesnt seem right
<davmor2> popey: it does here
<gord> heh, spotify has its own indicator, so if you run that you can alt play :)
<popey> not if rb is closed
<popey> well, not if rb has never been opened
 * AlanBell presses play
<popey> i.e. do that from a clean boot
<oimon> i also have a music symbol key
<AlanBell> RB starts, but nothing plays
<davmor2> popey: I went to the indicator and click play it started playing the first track in my music lib
<popey> yes, if you have previously had rb open it does davmor2
<popey> but not if it's clean boot
<davmor2> popey: ah right with you sorry
 * AlanBell presses play again and some stuff starts
 * popey files a bug
<gord> wow spotify isn't crashing for me
<gord> its failing to log into facebook so i guess that has something to do with it
<davmor2> popey:  it could be that it open RB see no music and decides to wait till you decide what to play maybe as it builds the lib once it is open and not before iirc
<popey> I dont care why âº
<davmor2> popey: I know you don't I'm just giving a possible cause so you can add it to the bug :P
<gord> does spotify work off recommendations? ie what you have already listened to? i fear i may be biasing it by testing it with eurovision tracks
<davmor2> gord: possibly
<JamesTait> popey: Sorry, I got dragged into a Mumble call. :)  The 1008HA is atom-based too, right?
<bigcalm> gord: I've not linked my fb account to spotify. Refuse to
<gord> i've degraded my facebook account to just being a contact point for apps now really, apps connect to it, i never go to the website
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<gord> i'm sure everyone else i know gets spammed with stuff my apps are saying ;)
<popey> yes JamesTait
<popey> JamesTait: basically all asus 1xxx laptops are the same
<popey> minor differences here and there
<popey> there's a couple of newer models with the pine-trail cpu which is better on battery, but they're all 1.6GHz atoms
<popey> (except mine which are 900Mhz Celerons)
<JamesTait> popey: Cool.  So I'll upgrade her RAM and go for it I think.
<popey> yeah, 2GB would be good
<popey> it's a massive balls-ache to do btw
<popey> well, the clamshell one wifey has is
<popey> I switched the disk for an SSD at the same time
<popey> gave it a new lease of life
<bigcalm> I installed 12.04 on my eeepc1000, think it might be too much for the poor thing
<JamesTait> I actually had 2GB in there at one stage, but I think it was the wrong type - I put the DIMMs from the EeePC 701 in it, and it didn't like it.
<JamesTait> So I changed it back to 1GB and now it's swapping a lot. :-/
<davmor2> JamesTait: watch the youtube video, iirc it is remove screws, remove keyboard, remove top cover, remove wifi, remove mobo add ram reverse to put it back but popey can possibly confirm
<bigcalm> Upgrading the ram in my 1000 wasn't difficult. Or I don't recall it being difficult
<JamesTait> popey, davmor2: This one is quite easy, it has a little hatch on the bottom. :)
 * JamesTait blinks at the chuffing great military helicopter that just flew over his house.
<BigRedS> Bewitched style?
<popey> bug 966132
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 966132 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Rhythmbox doesn't play when started from indicator" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966132
<popey> please to be confirming
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting TBA #ubuntu-uk-meeting | î¿\o/î¿ AWESOME î¿\o/î¿ | Cookies! â
<gord> popey, can't confirm =\ from a cold boot, hadn't loaded anything, took a second or so to load my library but then started playing music
<popey> â¹
<ali1234> also cannot reproduce
<ali1234> however
<ali1234> searching u1 music from the dash still doesn't work for me
<popey> hmmm
<gord> searching u1 music has always been a bit flaky, server side is slow =\
<ali1234> it works until i click on a result
<ali1234> then rhythmbox loads up and gives an error
<ali1234> "Error while getting credentials:
<ali1234> The '/org/freedesktop/secrets/collection/login/6' object does not exist"
<ali1234> known bug?
<gord> ah, no idea, maybe ask the u1 peoples
<ali1234> bug 966144
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 966144 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "U1 music store: Error while getting credentials" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966144
 * popey confirms
 * popey pokes aquarius 
 * bigcalm misreads that as porks, sorry :(
<directhex> sure, blame aquarius for every u1 bug
<bigcalm> directhex: isn't that what he's here for?
<popey> yes
<popey> what's the best android phone to get these days?
<bigcalm> SGS3
<bigcalm> But it's not out yet
<popey> hah, what about is ou
<popey> *out
<bigcalm> SGS2
<bigcalm> This is my problem, I want the SGS3, but my contract is due for renewal 6th April.
<bigcalm> SGS3 it rumoured to be out 22nd May (or reviled at least)
<popey> so wait?
<ali1234> you don't have to renew contract same day it ends you know
<popey> bug 966151
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 966151 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel oops when unplugging USB devices" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966151
<popey> nice
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> if the keyboard had already stopped responding
<ali1234> then likely the bug happened much earlier before the oops
<aquarius> popey, pong
 * popey points bug 966144 at aquarius 
<Dave2> I used to get a kernel panic when unplugging  power after unplugging my network cable
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 966144 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "U1 music store: Error while getting credentials" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966144
<gord> my keyboard stops responding all the time, have to unplug and replug, very annoying
<popey> or vice versa
<aquarius> popey, you wanna talk to dobey about that
 * popey points ali1234 at dobey âº
<ali1234> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/98525892/CurrentDmesg.txt <- popey, your dmesg is spammed with errors
<popey> yes
<ali1234> likely the real bug scrolled off the end :(
<popey> the keyboard failing
<ali1234> you should check in the /var/log/messages or whatever it is called these days, in case there is anything else relevant
<ali1234> /var/log/syslog maybe
<bigcalm> ali1234: I don't know how these things work
<bigcalm> I have discounts on my contract I don't want to lose
<ali1234> you won't lose anything
<ali1234> you might have to negotiate
<popey> you'll just carry on paying what you were paying
 * bigcalm reluctantly waits
<ali1234> no you won't
<popey> why not?
<ali1234> you will pay "standard price" until you renew the contract
<ali1234> then you will pay your cheaper negotiated rate
<popey> thats not what happens in my experience
<bigcalm> T-Mobile
<ali1234> yes, i use t-mobile
<bigcalm> Friend's and Family half price line rental
<ali1234> what
<bigcalm> :)
<ali1234> never heard of it
<ali1234> this is a mobile contract right?
<bigcalm> I don't think it exists any more.
<bigcalm> No, it's a discount
<bigcalm> A friend of mine used to work for T-Mobile
<ali1234> how can you have half price line rental?
<bigcalm> She got me that discount back when I would keep the discount even if she left
<ali1234> how much is full price line rental?
<bigcalm> Good question
<bigcalm> 35 quid I think
<ali1234> so you're paying 17.50 per month *just* for having the contract, plus whatever extras?
<bigcalm> And it gets applied to any other contract I renew with (iirc)
<bigcalm> That includes a handset
<ali1234> i pay Â£10 a month and that includes a handset
<ali1234> and "unlimited" internet
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<ali1234> basically i think your "discount" is so old it is no longer a discount
<bigcalm> Which tarrif is that?
<ali1234> i dunno, the cheapest one obviously
<bigcalm> What handset did you get with it?
<ali1234> a very cheap one
<bigcalm> I don't want a very cheap one :)
<ali1234> lol nokia lumia 710 is FREE
<ali1234> oh wait, US store
<directhex> the lumia 710 is currently the lowest-end lumia
<directhex> it's a Â£280 handset, so free is a normal price to charge on a contract
<ali1234> yeah all the phones are free
<bigcalm> From the t-mobile site, the cheapest 18 month contract with 750mb/month is 26quid
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> you are reading it wrong
<ali1234> the cheapest if Â£15/month
<bigcalm> And to have the sgs2 on that would be an extra 150 quid
<ali1234> then you get Â£5 off for renewing
<bigcalm> Why can I never remember my t-mobile login?
<bigcalm> Grr
<bigcalm> So you think that I can leave everything alone until the sgs3 is out?
<ali1234> no probably not
<bigcalm> Grumble
<ali1234> so let me get this straight
<bigcalm> I'll pop into a shop at some point soon to check what the score is
<ali1234> under your current contract
<ali1234> you pick the Â£36/month contract, get the free phone, but then only pay Â£18?
<bigcalm> I checked my account, it's 29.79 with a 14.90 discount
<bigcalm> That includes 180 quid of credit to use on calls and texts
<ali1234> the plans are totally different now
<bigcalm> My last bill was 17.87, due to vat
<ali1234> if you let the contract expire you can do this
<ali1234> get a 24 month, Â£36/month contract, with internet, 600mins/600texts, get Â£5 off that for renewing, and get the SGS II for freeeee
<ali1234> so assuming the SGS3 is same price you could do that
<bigcalm> That would double what I'm paying already and lock me into 24 months
<ali1234> so
<ali1234> you have to renew then
<ali1234> also who cares about 24 months?
<ali1234> it's only an extra 6 monthsa
<bigcalm> Only 6 months? Do you know how painful it is for a gadget freak to wait a few days?
<ali1234> if you renew a legacy contract they quite likely won't give you a new phone
<bigcalm> They did last time
<ali1234> also i would point ut that if you had got the 24 month contract last time you wouldn't have this problem
<bigcalm> I already had my Nexus One, so I let Hayley pick a phone she wanted - HTC Wildfire
<bigcalm> No, I'd still be stuck with my Nexus One
<ali1234> w/e let me know how it works out anyway
<bigcalm> Will do :)
<ali1234> i need to renew in june i think
<popey> Uhm, is it just me or does the term "Software updater" sound wrong
<bigcalm> How so?
<bigcalm> Maybe it's the er re
<popey> no, it's just the word "updater"
<popey> it looks and sounds wrong
<popey> like something my 5 year old would say
<bigcalm> Should it be updatr?
<popey> nvm
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> My dad has a WordPress site he's been working on and needs to show it to a committee in an off-line situation. Which would be better, a) set up a apache, php and mysql on his windows laptop or b) install Ubuntu in a vbox?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: put it on a live server and just password protect the folder using .htaccess
<bigcalm> MooDoo: you didn't read the part where I said it was in an off-line situation
<bigcalm> No internet access
<bigcalm> The site is already being hosted on my bytemark server
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i did read that part it just didn't compute lol
<bigcalm> :)
<ali1234> virtualbox will be easier to set up and significantly easier to remove afterwards
<ali1234> don't try to use the packaged wordpress though, it's anightmare
<bigcalm> ali1234: the site already exists (I set it up and used wordpress.org for the tarball). I think he just wants a way of demoing it.
<bigcalm> I'll walk him though a few things and then do the rest via ssh to his machine
<shauno> If its already being hosted on an ubuntu server, I'd just build the same thing up in a VM. Less chance of surprises
<MartijnVdS> GAH
<MartijnVdS> Kernel security update -> 650034983 emails on the security-announce list
<MartijnVdS> one for every flavour of arm
<bigcalm> The hardest part will be walking him though setting up port forwarding on the router
<bigcalm> Hehe, nice
<gord> buying ebooks really isn't that convenient when you have to turn the house over trying to find where you put your kindle after purchasing the ebook
<dwatkins> gord: perhaps you should put one of these on it ;) http://www.amazon.com/FINDER-LOCATOR-WHISTLE-LIGHT-CHAIN/dp/B001DVS8T0
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I was going to try and build one of those which works with a very narrow range of frequencies so it doesn't get set-off by just talking.
<gord> dwatkins, it turned out to be in a drawer that i put all my computer stuff, i think the problem isn't the kindle but rather me ;)
<dwatkins> gord: why solve a perfectly normal psychological issue of forgetting where you put things with better organisation, when you can get out the soldering iron and ignore the fact you're forgetful? ;)
<AlanBell> http://www.barsoho.co.uk/
<gord> it would be fun to make a kindle dock of some sort that it can be thrown in to charge
<dwatkins> gord: yeah, I made a Lego stand for my phone with the charging lead held in the bottom
<daubers> gord: Or just do it wirelessly like the palm pre's did
<gord> daubers, wirelessly?
<gord> like that magnet thing?
<daubers> gord: The magnet touchstone thingy
<dwatkins> my previous toothbrush charged with magnetic induction
<BigRedS> I'm sure that's supposed to be mainstream by now
<BigRedS> I'm really hoping it gets into the iPhone5
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<gord> seems like its still pretty inefficient
<gord> would be nice to have it built into a table though
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1624/detail/
<DJones> Sheesh, just been told that there a queues a mile long for local petrol stations and the tesco petrol station ran out of fuel early morning
<directhex> DJones, threat of strike?
<DJones> directhex: seems like it
<directhex> hm
<DJones> Listening on the radio last night, they weren't planning anything until the easter weekend at the earliest, so the people filling up now will probably run out before then anyway
<popey> DJones: I won't âº
<AlanBell> probably people topping up with Â£10 of fuel
<AlanBell> they should impose a minimum Â£50 spend at the pumps to discourage timewasters
<DJones> I need to fill up tomorrow for work, and then again over easter for a drive down to minehead
<BigRedS> My bike can only take Â£30!
<AlanBell> with exceptions for bikes :)
<DJones> AlanBell: The exception for bikes being only applicable if they've got pedals
<BigRedS> :(
<directhex> AlanBell, erm, great... know how hard it is to empty my tank enough to take Â£50 of petrol?
<gord> open tank, turn bike upside down
<directhex> it's a 1.4 tonne car
<dwatkins> my Peugeot 306 costs 60 quid to fill when I let the diesel tank get to just under 1/4 full
<dwatkins> AlanBell: what about if you run out of petrol and have to fill a petrol can?
<christel> then you had better have a very large can!
<directhex> christel, on wheels!
<DJones> Add an engine & steering and you've got a 2nd car :)
<directhex> dwatkins, i'm paying about Â£48 when i let the tank go down to 1 bar out of 10
<directhex> the only lower value is flashing warning light
<dwatkins> directhex: what kind of car?
<directhex> dwatkins, prius
<dwatkins> I assume my tank is somewhere around the 70 litre mark
<dwatkins> perhaps only 60, actually
<popey> Mine costs ~100 to fill up â¹
<directhex> dwatkins, 2nd gen prius has 45L tank.
<dwatkins> wow and wow
<popey> Volvo V70 Diesel
<directhex> so in theory a Â£62 fill from dry
<popey> if it's completely empty it's about 100 quid
<directhex> never let it get empty enough to pay that
<directhex> don't want to find out how well the electronic doodads react to loss of power
<DJones> Just worked out, mine will cost about Â£85 to fill from empty
<Nafallo> are you talking about bandwidth to fill each persons favourite external hard drive?
 * quackers car is a 4.4 litre v8 BMW - not cheap to fill up
<Nafallo> oh. cars. blah.
<DJones> quackers: 4.4L V8, How many gallons to the mile do you get out of that
<quackers> 3 :-)
<quackers> in its whole life it is averaging just under 22 mpg
<DJones> That has got to be painful running, I got rid of a Kia Sedonna that averaged about 25-30 because it was too expensive to run
<quackers> It's getting on a bit now and would cost more to change than it costs to run
<quackers> don't do too many miles nowadays
<quackers> golf club and back and weekly snooker matches
<DJones> Sounds a relaxing life (apart from the golf)
<quackers> not working atm but too skint to play golf every day, sadly
<DJones> I always remember what my Grandad said about golf "Why spoil a long walk" and he played golf
<selinuxium> AlanBell, Yay! Party!
<quackers> it's true
<BigRedS> selinuxium: but on a thursday!
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Aren't they always on a Thursday?
<gordonjcp> quackers: that's pretty good, I had a Citroen XM that got around 24mpg if you stayed out of the second half of the rev counter
<quackers> :-)
<BigRedS> selinuxium: possibly. I remember having this surprise a few times ebfore
<gordonjcp> since in top 2700rpm equated to 80mph this wasn't terribly hard
<gordonjcp> *70mph
<selinuxium> BigRedS, You going? Been a while sine I have seen you
<selinuxium> *since
<gordonjcp> quackers: on a slight downslope it would touch the rev limiter at 6500rpm, and 6000 on the flat
<BigRedS> selinuxium: yeah, I think we meet at release dos :)
<BigRedS> I'll try
<gordonjcp> quackers: I'll let you do the mental arithmetic
<BigRedS> I work in The North now...
<BigRedS> so I need to arrange to, er, not
<gordonjcp> quackers: it wasn't doing 24mpg any more by that point ;-)
<quackers> no, definitely not :-)
<oimon> my first game of drawsomething..user resigned. meh
<gordonjcp> my mate had an E32 735i that would actually get about 22mpg around town
<gordonjcp> thirsty, but what a way to go broke
<popey> you were at the last one iirc BigRedS
<gordonjcp> quackers: especially since he was unemployed ;-)
<gordonjcp> insurance was about Â£200 a year even in Glasgow, it's too old to go on the sliding scale tax
<BigRedS> popey: yeah, I've been at the last few
<quackers> 540 mine, but similar engine
<quackers> good fun :-)
<gordonjcp> quackers: thing with the old ones is, they're so easy to get bits for and relatively cheap to ensure
<oimon> anyone play draw something?
<quackers> yes, mine's not old enough for the really cheap insurance yet, but it's not too bad. Parts yes, they're all still available
<selinuxium> BigRedS, LOL
<bigcalm> Walked into town and back for lunch as it's such a lovely day. Should have taken a watch with me, whoops
<davmor2> bigcalm: 2 hour lunch break again
<bigcalm> I did read some work emails at subway
<bigcalm> So that counts as a working lunch
<quackers> sound like a lawyer :-)
<Nafallo> hmmm. subway...
<Nafallo> it's been too long.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yay! Release Party!, Followed by Beerex, Followed by Beerex. Blimey - going to be a hard & extended weekend for my liver
<popey> followed by flight to america
<popey> â¨
<davmor2> popey: dead liver and jetlag nice combo
<popey> hah
<gord> popey, you spending the entire week at uds?
<popey> yeah
<popey> two weeks
<gord> ouch
<gord> oh is this your first two week uds? you'll be a zombie like me!
<gord> yaaay zombies
<Laney> what happens the week before?
<directhex> all hands meeting?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Talking of Beerex and drinkies.
<gord> its convenient to structure sprints around uds, we have the hotel, people are flying out anyway, so there are sprints beforehand
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: AlanBell we have one ticket left - assuming it is popey +1.
<popey> should be
<popey> i can check with him
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Anyone you want to invite>
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\>\?
<christel> meee
<christel> don't forget meee
<MooDoo> christel: no one could forget you
<popey> bug 138365
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 138365 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "release notes link fails to link" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/138365
<Azelphur> Gah, trying to put the Joli OS image on my joggler, but it runs out of space dding to my 4GB usb drive :(
<ikonia> directhex: ping
<directhex> yo
<ikonia> yo !,
<ikonia> 30 seconds to drop you a quick pm
<directhex> go ahead
<Myrtti> huuu
<Myrtti> is the openid at launchpad down?
<Myrtti> oh it was only a glitch
<Myrtti> got worried there for a while
<oimon> surprise, surprise, the bottom fo the ocean is dull
<quackers> Has anybody else noticed that the Ubuntu root file size increases every day in Precise? Recently mine's gone from about 4.7G to 5.7G and I've cleared out all old kernels. Is it just mine?
<popey> its wet too
<popey> sudo apt-get clean
<popey> packages in /var/cache/apt/
<quackers> is it safe on testing Precise?
<popey> /dev/sda1            216G  171G   35G  84% /
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ sudo apt-get clean
<popey> /dev/sda1            216G  170G   36G  83% /
<popey> \o/
<quackers> Ha! clean got rid of 850M, thanks popey
<popey> np
<quackers> much leaner now :-)
<Azelphur> mgdm: could you perhaps take a look at my attempt at lartc? http://pastebin.com/tbb31t3B
<Azelphur> the goal being to limit all traffic from the www-data user
<Azelphur> or besides that, does anyone know how I might make a clone/something of a network interface? the goal being to put the webserver on that interface, and then rate limit just that interface
<popey> yeah, you can create aliases and give them IPs
<popey> and then bind the app to that IP only
<popey> like eth0:1 and eth0:2
<Azelphur> popey: tell me how and I'll love you forever, I've been trying to put a rate limit on my webserver for about 10 hours solid.
<popey> separate stanzas in /etc/network/interfaces
<popey> linux
<popey> bah
<popey> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/ubuntu-linux-creating-ethernet-alias-for-eth0-network-device.html
<Azelphur> how would that work? would I have to port forward?
<popey> that kind of thing
<popey> you'd get a new IP on the network
<popey> so apache would be on a different IP which you could rate limit with tools like wondershaper
<Azelphur> yea, wondershaper is exactly my plan
<Azelphur> but this is for my dedicated server I don't have any available IPs
<Azelphur> plus my server seems to do some dark magic involving one interface having multiple addresses, not quite sure how that works
<Azelphur> popey: http://collabedit.com/p5u9s like that
<Azelphur> haha, someone likes collabedit, it's multiplayer notepad :)
<mgdm> Azelphur: I'll look, but it's years since I did that - that page was just the first hit for 'nginx traffic shaping' in google
<Azelphur> haha \o/
<Azelphur> mgdm: better than nothing, the lartc irc channel is dead in the water
<Azelphur> popey: ah, I bet I can just use that article you linked, create a fake interface on a local like 127.0.0.2 then just forward port 80 to it with iptables, rate limit, and solution \o/
<mgdm> careful, aliases in iptables don't quite work as you'd expect
<Azelphur> oh?
<Azelphur> well I'm guessing this wouldn't even need to be an alias
<oimon> overheard somebody referring to "macintrash". cant take him seriously
<mgdm> you can't do 'iptables -A INPUT -i eth0:1', it doesn't know about eth0:1 from what I rememeber
<Azelphur> mgdm: ah, but it could probably do it to the IP address
<Azelphur> I'm testing on my local machine, so no need to worry too much about breaking things
<Azelphur> mgdm: having any luck? or should I start bashing at t he alias thing \o/
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: the :1 bits are aliases, used for iptables
<MartijnVdS> "ip" and "iptables" don't want/need them, use the IP instead :)
<Azelphur> gah, I can't wondershaper an alias
<Azelphur> :'(
<popey> can you wondershaper an IP?
<Azelphur> popey: nope
<Azelphur> I think my only option for doing this is running the webserver inside a VM and using wondershaper inside the vm...crazy :/
<popey> or rate limit the webserver itself?
<popey> apache?
<Azelphur> nginx is amazingly the only webserver without a setting for that
<popey> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/131681/apache-rate-limiting-options
<Azelphur> trust me, I've looked
<popey> oh
<Azelphur> it has limit_rate but that's per connection rather than globally :(
<Azelphur> apparently because it forks itself into separate threads it can't do it
<Nafallo> just plug in another network cable ;-)
<Azelphur> Nafallo: fly to new york...break into data center... :p
<Nafallo> hmmm
<Nafallo> here's an idea... ask for a tagged vlan on your port and try if wondershaper works on the virtual interface? :-)
<Nafallo> actually. I'm not at all sure it would :-P
<Nafallo> and it would be messy regardless.
<Azelphur> I've tested locally by creating eth0:1 and as soon as I applied wondershaper, it rate limited eth0
<Nafallo> heh
<Azelphur> it ignores the alias and just rate limits the "upstream" interface
<Nafallo> excellent.
<Nafallo> it works on a lower level then :-)
<Azelphur> indeed
<Nafallo> just get another server ;-)
<Nafallo> move the site
<Azelphur> spend all the monies \o/
<Nafallo> who needs them anyway? ;-)
<Azelphur> me :D
<Nafallo> they are just going to sit there using fields in your banks databases :-P
<Nafallo> save the bank some bytes!
<Azelphur> haha
<Nafallo> hard drives are expensive damnit
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: I know what the aliases are
<mgdm> I've been using them for *years*
<mgdm> I also know that the iptables command doesn't work with them, it just sees 'eth0' and gets on with it
<Azelphur> mgdm: indeed, I'm back to stuck then
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: yeah.. I've stopped using them :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/ ip addr
<ali1234> Azelphur: just get another IP like you had before
<ali1234> you used to have like 32
<Azelphur> ali1234: I can get IPs I can't get interfaces
<ali1234> problem?
<Azelphur> problem, wondershaper can only shape an interface
<ali1234> don't use wondershaper jeez
<Azelphur> would love some suggestions
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1624/detail/ 16 people coming already :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://lartc.org/howto/lartc.qdisc.advice.html
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: One simple TBF should do
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: "To purely slow down outgoing traffic, use the Token Bucket Filter. Works up to huge bandwidths, if you scale the bucket."
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://lartc.org/howto/lartc.qdisc.classless.html#AEN691
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I've been down this route, I wrote some tc stuff and it just won't work :(
<Azelphur> and the mailing list / irc channel for it is dead.
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: in fact, I've even found various examples of tc usage online, and none of them work either.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.funtoo.org/wiki/Traffic_Control ?
<Azelphur> doesn't display any information at all about why it's not working, it just silently fails :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: tc -s qdisc ls dev eth0 (or whatever device)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that should list the qdiscs you've defined + how often they're used
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: class = filters = "if this matches, do something"
<Azelphur> well, that's even more fun
<Azelphur> it sees my limits, it even catches the packets absolutely correctly
<Azelphur> it just doesn't impose the limit.
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/tbb31t3B is what I'm doing
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/YdUV5bck is the info
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: ah, ok...this is really odd
<Azelphur> if I request http://192.168.1.10/ and it loads my local drupal install, the filter catches it
<Azelphur> if I request my large test file, http://192.168.1.10/10g.img it doesn't.
<MartijnVdS> is drupal running as a different user?
<MartijnVdS> or the apache?
<MartijnVdS> or whatever you're using
<AlanBell> things you can do with big phones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBrmaE82uY4&feature=colike
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: what if you use output + source-port?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: well, it's targetting the www-data user, so unless apache is spawning another process to serve static files that isn't www-data :S
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I could do that
<MartijnVdS> it shouldn't be doing that (spawning) but you never know :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: do you know the iptables foo for that? I'm unfamiliar with everything :(
<mgdm> I didn't think iptables could do anything user-specific
<mgdm> never tried, mind - that's somewhere off in "weird stuff" land
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: iptables -t mangle -A OUTPUT  -p tcp --sport 80 -j MARK etc.
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: it can do so.. but it eats CPU a lot
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: If only Ubuntu released 2 weeks later :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: (then I'd be at the release party)
<AlanBell> aww
<AlanBell> Azelphur: maybe something with bridged networking to put the web server on a different logical interface, then slow down that interface
<Azelphur> if I can get the webserver onto it's own interface, that would indeed work as I could wondershaper that interface
<Azelphur> also, the whole thing appears to have grinded to a halt and I can't detect any packets any more :(
<daftykins> Azelphur: cor no luck so far eh?
<Azelphur> daftykins: nope, I spent 9 hours on this yesterday too
<Azelphur> ridiculously difficult \o/
<daftykins> ouchies
<daftykins> they're annoying those tasks that should be simple but then clearly aren't once you get going
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> the worst is when you break something that worked normally before
<daftykins> i did that a lot when trying to learn to lockdown a friends VPS
<Azelphur> and of course the "this is easy on windows" thing >.<
<daftykins> trying to get multiple apache processes running as different users etc.
<Azelphur> which is annoying because I hate windows in general lol
<daftykins> :D
<Azelphur> oO, I found an example of exactly what I want to do, and it's in the lartc documentation
<Azelphur> inb4 it doesn't work
<daftykins> Azelphur: doesn't work?
<daftykins> how cruel
<Azelphur> even better, I seem to have crashed gnome-terminal
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> Azelphur: is your display setup bug free these days? :)
<Azelphur> well, that caused the entire OS to freeze
<Azelphur> managed to drop to a TTY and get it back
<Azelphur> daftykins: same as usual :)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> fun times
<daftykins> no progress made eh?
<MartijnVdS> does anyone know of a good "solar battery charger" (charge thing in sun, later: attach thing to phone, charge phone)
<mgdm> there was one called a Freeloader a while back tat I used
<mgdm> it was OK, from what I remember
<diplo> Evening all
<daftykins> heya
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: most that I'm finding have tiny panels
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: which probably means they take ages to charge
<daftykins> i read that as "tiny pedals" first :D
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: there's one with an extended pair of panels that folds out, which wasn't too bad
<mgdm> it was being used on a yacht
<Azelphur> daftykins: lol wow, pidgin locked up for like 5 minutes
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: I'm planning on using it while riding a bike around the Netherlands :)
<Azelphur> but yea, no progress made, detects packets but doesn't limit.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: did you read the entire funtoo article? It set up multiple root/child qdiscs
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I've literally found an example on the official documentation that is supposed to "limit webserver traffic to 5mbit", I copy and pasted it exactly, ran it, it ran successfully, the queues have been created and are detecting traffic, I'm still able to download at some 25MB/sec
<Azelphur> tc either doesn't work or the documentation is wrong, I'm guessing the first since I've tried so many things with it
<daftykins> is this all local host?
<daftykins> on your testing still?
<Azelphur> yea
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: try from another host
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: localhost might be special
<daftykins> Azelphur: i bet it's cheating by going loopback
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I'm trying to http://192.168.1.10
<daftykins> thus missing your modifications, if they're interface driven
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: try from another machine
<Azelphur> ok
<Azelphur> another machine inside LAN? or outside
<daftykins> inside should be fine
<daftykins> so it goes over the configured interface
<Azelphur> daftykins / MartijnVdSstill nope, inside the network and it's doing 11MB/sec
<Azelphur> the example I'm using is on http://lartc.org/howto/lartc.qdisc.classful.html do a ctrl+f for webserver
<MartijnVdS> You'd have to ask a Linux networking guru
<MartijnVdS> :(
<Azelphur> indeed, I've been trying to find one but not having much luck
<MartijnVdS> maybe it only really limits once it's saturated?
<daftykins> http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2011/01/02
<MartijnVdS> so if the link is 100% full with "other" traffic, only 5 mbits will be taken from the 100% to go to the webserver?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I thought about that, so I changed all the 100mbits down to really low, but still nope
<daftykins> Azelphur: i'd probably wimp out, VM it and restrict the interface of the VM :D
<daftykins> but then that's easy for me as my web server *is* a VM
<Azelphur> yea, I think it's the only way to do it which is really annoying :/
<Azelphur> what would you recommend VM wise?
<daftykins> in terms of?
<daftykins> the product?
<Azelphur> in terms of I run a dedicated server and I'm probably going to need to bottle my webserver
<MartijnVdS> which vm tech
<Azelphur> yea
<daftykins> ah not sure, i'm running vmware atop windows 7 on my file server
<Azelphur> I quite like virtualbox for desktop but dunno how well that'd work on a server
<Azelphur> haha
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> in fact i'm typing right now SSH'd from England via the VM that sits next to it, dedicated to irssi XD
<daftykins> my laptop here has virtualbox on, first time i've used it practically, not sure what networking controls it has
<daftykins> Azelphur: the other thought i had is that maybe you could do something with bridge utilities to tap a fake interface into your LAN, then speed limit that
<daftykins> but i don't even know if that's possible, thats a total guess
<Azelphur> yea, I had that idea too but no real idea on how to do it or if it's possible
<daftykins> hmm
<MartijnVdS> it _is_ possible
<MartijnVdS> I've done it
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: there's a bandwidth limiting bit in iptables as well
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: :O where? that would be great
<Azelphur> I've tried to find something like that but I found nothing
<MartijnVdS> oh it's only connection rate limiting I think
<MartijnVdS> max X connects/time unit
<Azelphur> yea that's all I could find :(
<MartijnVdS> http://luxik.cdi.cz/~devik/qos/htb/manual/userg.htm ?
<daftykins> the sound is really carrying from the Portsmouth stadium
<daftykins> match on tonight ;/
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I really think at this point that tc is broken, my rules are clearly in place correctly, it's catching the packets, but it's not rate limiting at all
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.wlug.org.nz/TrafficControl
<Azelphur> the mailing list for it has been dead for years and the IRC channel is just full of idlers...it's dead
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's not
<MartijnVdS> tc is not dead, it's alive and well
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I've literally been trying any old example I can find online, none of them work any more
<Azelphur> I can't seem to find a single sucessful tc use case, at all
<daftykins> odd stuff
<Azelphur> indeed
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: there's something in those HOWTOs about "the kernel only talking to root" and "qdiscs being local"
<Azelphur> it could be something wrong with my system
<MartijnVdS> so I think it's a theory problem
<Azelphur> o.O
<MartijnVdS> as in "We all know too little of the theory behind tc"
<mgdm> I once mistyped the limit in wondershaper, and ended up limiting the internal interface to 500Kbit/sec
<Azelphur> perhaps
<Azelphur> mgdm: did it actually work?
<mgdm> I got a phone call within 5 minutes to tell me that my script was working "very well thanks, now please turn it off"
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> don't suppose you have a backup of that script
<Azelphur> I'd really like to test it, just to see if any form of tc limiting at all actually works, I really think it's broken somehow
<mgdm> this was a couple of years ago and I no longer work there
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-traffic-shaping-using-tc-to-control-http-traffic/ ?
<mgdm> but it was just the wondershaper script with a couple of things fiddled
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: one of the many pages I've tried the exact example from, so I know that one don't work :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it shows "add a 200ms delay to all traffic" rule that should be testable with ping
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I'm trying it now
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> I'll try that too
<daftykins> ooh
<Azelphur> yep, the latency one works...holy crap something actually works.
<MartijnVdS> the ping delay works
<Azelphur> lemme have another try with the http outbound example
<MartijnVdS> the cyberciti one has explanations of what each command should do
<MartijnVdS> that's helpful :)
<MartijnVdS> you need to define both a rate and a ceil, and a total rate for the parent I think?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: woo, I think we're in business
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<Azelphur> yea, it's working...haha
<MartijnVdS> See, it's a problem of us all not knowing the theory behind it :)
<Azelphur> \o/
 * Azelphur hugs everyone for helping with that
<daftykins> :O
<Azelphur> been driving me up the wall big time not being able to do it
<daftykins> was anything different?
<Azelphur> I have no idea
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: now send a thank-you email to the author of that page :)
<daftykins> now document it in your logbook!
<daftykins> :)
<Azelphur> I'm adopting a "For the love of god don't touch it, EVER." policy on that script
<Azelphur> haha
<daftykins> XD
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: still, bookmark that page just in case
<Azelphur> yea, I will do
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: better: save a copy locally (you know how these blogs bitrot over time)
<Azelphur> I'll put a link to it in the header of my script too
<Azelphur> archive.org *shrug*
<daftykins> speaking of which my Guernsey domain is up for renewal soon
<daftykins> Â£45 for a year =|
<daftykins> rip. off.
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: wht's the extension?
<daftykins> .gg
<daftykins> :>
<MartijnVdS> gg
<daftykins> one can't buy wp.gg :(
<MartijnVdS> e.gg
<AlanBell> want
<mgdm> o.gg
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> Jersey's is .je
<daftykins> i tried to buy www.jeje.je
 * mgdm has hebrid.es
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: that's actually "you" in Dutch :)
<daftykins> ooh nice
<mgdm> not used it for anything yet, though
<mgdm> and as I don't live there any more... well
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: :D in that case me.je
<MartijnVdS> Ooh.. "haat.je" is not registered. (hate you).. "ik@haat.je" would be "I hate you"...
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> fancy not using love as an example
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: that would be more than one word :)
<daftykins> it would?
<MartijnVdS> we're more efficient haters than lovers ;)
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> dutch love eh, harder to say
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: "ik hou van je" vs "ik haat je"
<daftykins> do the two parts make sense on their own? as in, is there a literal translation to each half?
<MartijnVdS> well "Ik" = "I", "haat" = "hate", "je" is "you"
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: hmm, I don't think that's matching quite right, the rules are affecting my ssh connections o.O
<MartijnVdS> and "hou van" is a verb in two parts (verb + preposition)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: then you're marking it using iptables :)
<Azelphur> iptables -A OUTPUT -t mangle -p tcp --sport 80 -j MARK --set-mark 10
<Azelphur> is all I have
<MartijnVdS> iptables -t mangle -L
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: but "hou" and "van" ?
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/902764/
<daftykins> oh you said
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: separately, they mean something different ("to hold" or "to keep") and "from"/"off"
<daftykins> hmm interesting
<MartijnVdS> more "of" really
<MartijnVdS> Strange language is strange.
<daftykins> :>
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: the second example on that page works better :)
<AlanBell> this glass is as empty as the bottle :(
<daftykins> AlanBell: boo
<daftykins> i'm on no kind of sauce tonight
<daftykins> in fact boredom is fast approaching
<Azelphur> has anyone seen buzz (the joggler guy) recently?
<bigcalm> Aww, poor gary
<daftykins> nick-denied :<
<daftykins> or password forgotten
<jacobw> evening
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> how do?
<jacobw> ok
<jacobw> you?
<daftykins> not too bad thanks :) electrician got all my jobs done today so making some progress slowly but surely
<daftykins> fixing up a house in England to sell right now
<daftykins> very slow going :(
<daftykins> i could be back in Guernsey playing Mass Effect 3 with friends online ;)
<daftykins> (srs bsns)
<jacobw> that sounds fun
<jacobw> i miss playing games with friends
<daftykins> yeah online multiplayer can be good fun, plus it's a good way for those of us that don't live on the island anymore to keep in contact :)
<jacobw> it can be hard to keep in contact
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> ooh my, tired already
<daftykins> so glad the time change is here giving sensible sunset times
<jacobw> ha
<jacobw> i noticed it was very light last night this night and didn't make the connection
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> woohoo more sun for free \o/
<jacobw> the sun on sunday :p
<daftykins> ;)
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/u/0/
<AlanBell> oh that won't help much
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109175303602657131317/posts/ey258aucuqF
<AlanBell> try that one :)
<popey> moo
<bigcalm> Oom
<bigcalm> I guess I should listen to the last podcast :S
<Davin66> server irc.dwc.za.net
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] This time, more than any other time - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/03/27/this-time-more-than-any-other-time
<mgdm> popey: is the oggcamp website meant to be quite as massively low-contrast? I can't read any of the links
<mgdm> I suspect having to hit ctrl-a is not by design
<Azelphur> I just went a bit crazy...found a bitcoin investment fund, bought...the whole thing
<Azelphur> like...the whole fund, every share o.O
<mgdm> bitcoin :(
<Azelphur> haha
<mgdm> I only ever hear about it when another exchange has been destroyed by a security problem
<mgdm> never bothered to get into it myself
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> mgdm: complain to fab âº
<mgdm> popey: I shall :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-28
 * AlanBell thinks popey enjoys saying that
<czajkowski> aloha
<DJones> Bloody panic buying at petrol stations, 3 fuel stations this morning before I could get any
<daubers> Are we back on to that again?
<daubers> Must go get a bottle of oil at lunch time
<DJones> Looks like its starting, yesterday there were queue's a mile long near work before the stations ran out of fuel, then the first two stations I went to this morning had problems, one had run out, one only had petrol but there were about 50 cars queuing for that, 3rd one had no problems and no queues and had had a delivery yesterday
<AlanBell> what is the right way to stop a service from running on boot?
<DJones> Why when you search amazon for micro sd 32Gb class 10, does it offer you class 4...Stupid search system
<arsen> sorry DJones - i read "3 fuel stations before i could get any" totally different to how i think i was meant to.
<arsen> get any FUEL. bad mind.
<DJones> Hmmh....
 * DJones passes arsen the mind bleach
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Why would people be panic buying at petrol stations?
<arsen> thanks.
<arsen> threatened fuel tanker driver strike, MartijnVdS
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Fuel tanker drivers have voted to go on strike, but not said when, but they're expecting it be in time for the easter weekend
<arsen> im all for the truckers doing road blockades again to protest - that was great.
<popey> I was in finland the last time there were big fuel strikes
<popey> was great fun seeing all my mates emailing back and forth about which stations had fuel
<popey> "Loads here guys!"
<popey> "Where?"
<popey> "Oslo"
<BigRedS> that does sound like the sort of incentive I need to cycle to work
<arsen> my new bike arrives today :D
<arsen> cycling to work is one of the best things ive ever started doing.
<BigRedS> Now I'm in the countryside I really don't like cycling
<popey> surely your motorbike isn't expensive to run?
<BigRedS> nah
<BigRedS> well, it's more so than it might be
<chrisccoulson> ah, the joys of working from home :)
<popey> +1
<popey> âº
<arsen> how come BigRedS ? i enjoy rides around the greenery :D
<BigRedS> arsen: it's the traffic
<BigRedS> it's all predictable and slow in London
<BigRedS> well
<BigRedS> slow
<arsen> i do enjoy my commute - i tend to treat it like  sportive. twice a day
<BigRedS> ah, I just spend most of the time I'm on a bike her feeling like I'm in the way
<arsen> arh :/
<arsen> it is much more common in london.
<arsen> when i first started commuting it was me and a few bikes at most at traffic lights - these days its ~10+
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I've heard that's happened
<gordonjcp> I'd like to cycle to work on days like this
<gordonjcp> the half a tonne of test gear kind of puts paid to that idea
<bigcalm> Ok, who killed symfony-project.org ?
<hank3three3chat> I', trying to run 12.04 using live cd or dvd but I am having problems starting it up, can somebody give me some help please?
<hank3three3chat> How do I get it to start?
<hank3three3chat> I go into the bios but not sure which one to choose, and it keeps bypassing the dvd and starting the installed os
<gordonjcp> hank3three3chat: check that the CD/DVD drive is set to be the first boot device
<hank3three3chat> which option in the bios do I choose to do that?
<gordonjcp> depends on your biod
<gordonjcp> *bios
<hank3three3chat> ok, I'll try to take a picture
<gordonjcp> lacking the means to look over your shoulder I can't tell you exactly
<gordonjcp> not much good, I won't be able to see it
<gordonjcp> look around for something like "Advanced", and in there look around for something like "Boot Order"
<gordonjcp> that seems to be the most common
<arsen> bigcalm   - gotta just leave it at work, or get smaller stuff :) i have a little 11" lappy to enable commuting.
<hank3three3chat> ok, I got into the bios, and got boot and it gives six options, just took a pic, will try upload now, one sec
<hank3three3chat> not good because of backlight but hope you can see it
<bigcalm> arsen: eh?
<gordonjcp> hank3three3chat: I haven't got web access just now
<arsen> bigcalm  - if you're talking about having too much stuff to carry-  carry less or leave it where you work :P but i dont know what you do, so "test" gear could imply part of your job is travelling with gear?
<arsen> i duno :)
<bigcalm> arsen: I think you might have the wrong nick there
<bigcalm> I work from home thus don't travel or need to take things places
<hank3three3chat> ok, thanks anyway
<arsen> oh - sorry, i totally meant to say all of that to gordonjcp :x
 * arsen goes back to bed.
<hank3three3chat> that is odd, I tried all the options, but none seem to have worked,
<hank3three3chat> on the website it says to use a dvd and not cd because the download is too large for dvd, does that make any difference?
<hank3three3chat> for cd, I should say
<hank3three3chat> ok, does anybody have a help page I can be directed to then
<gordonjcp> tbh I'd use a USB stick
<gordonjcp> arsen: yes, it's equipment I use for my job
<gordonjcp> arsen: it involves slightly more than a laptop
<gordonjcp> and more along the lines of communications test sets, rolls of extremely low loss cable, signal generators, spectrum analysers etc
<arsen> 2ah, ouch P
<arsen> :p
<arsen> would be amazing to see someone make an effort to take it tho
<arsen> twin panniers, front and rear :D
<BigRedS> we used to have a customer who was a handyman who went round on a bicycle
<BigRedS> and not one of those newfangled cargo bikes, just a tourer with pannier racks and a lot of bodging
<hank3three3chat> oh, think I might have been doing something wrong, I was trying to use F2 and not F12, using a different laptop, used f12 instead and its starting the dvd
<hank3three3chat> once I am in there, and running he live dvd how do I get out of it, I don't want to install it on that laptop>
<hank3three3chat> ok, found out it works on this laptop, how do I come out of this, and remove the dvd safely
<gord> hank3three3chat, click in the top right, shutdown
<bigcalm> Is there any reason to not set a field to LONGBLOB instead of MEDIUMBLOB in MySQL?
<hank3three3chat> ok, thank you
<gord> bigcalm, does long not imply uses more data?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: is there any reason to use mysql? ;)
<bigcalm> Thanks MartijnVdS :P
<bigcalm> gord: mediumblob will store a max of 16mb so I'm wondering if it's worth wile using longblob
<bigcalm> I don't know what the overhead is to have different field sizes
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "I thought size didn't matter"
<gord> seems like longblob uses 4bytes to store data instead of 3, performance might be negligible, i'd benchmark it if i were you
<bigcalm> gord: thanks
<bigcalm> As this will be for delivering uploaded assets rather than pre-set images, I think the performance difference will be ok
<gord> well it really depends on the size of the database
<gord> i think
<gord> i mean i'm guessing ;)
<bigcalm> :D
<gord> wait, your storing the uploaded asset in the database?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> That's the intention
<gord> why?
<gord> i mean, why not store the upload as a file like everything else in the world, so you can serve it up as a file
<bigcalm> Because with multiple web heads it makes it awkward
<popey> shared storage
<popey> proxy
<bigcalm> Yes, we could have a separate assets server. But we'd rather not for this project
<gord> well when the database blows up because someone tried to upload a dvd, don't blame me :P
<bigcalm> Maybe I'll stick to mediumblob
<hank3three3chat> seems I might have a problem, even though on this laptop I managed to partition and install 10.10, for some reason, when I click on the boot menu, it won't start the dvd, and I know it works because I tried it on the other laptop, so the boot for dvd is not working for somereason
<MartijnVdS> hank3three3chat: could be the laptop not being able to boot from CDs/DVDs?
<MartijnVdS> hank3three3chat: have you looked in the BIOS, and set it to boot from CD?
<czajkowski> new user seems lost if anyone wants to help. https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/191847
<gord> hank3three3chat, you might have more luck using a live usb or maybe wubi which lets you install ubuntu from inside windows
<popey> can someone install touchegg on 12.04 and reproduce 966960
<popey> oh, private bug, never mind, will wait till it gets unprivated
<hank3three3chat> its what I have been trying to do, with the bios getting it to even start the dvd, it wont
<hank3three3chat> I need to get a stick,
<hank3three3chat>  can't seem to find the ones I had
<hank3three3chat> and I don't want to install wubi
<hank3three3chat> and I know th dvd works because I was able to get it to start on another laptop
<gord> yeah it seems to be a problem with your machine, problem is that all bios's are different so its hard to help
<popey> http://www.hiren.info/pages/bios-boot-cdrom is nice
<hank3three3chat> popey: thanks for that, but my bios look nothing like that, and its F2 or f!2 to enter
<hank3three3chat> but I have saved that to my bookmarks
<hank3three3chat> and this laptop is only a year old
<gord> hrm, upgraded a machine remotely (norway) over ssh from lucid to oneiric, completely problem free, ubuntu is awesome :)
<rml_home> does anyone know how to turn off the "change focus on hover thing?"
<hank3three3chat> ok, for some reason, it wouldn't boot from my dvd player, but remembred I have a usb dvd player, so tried that, and its worked, but it seems it dosnt want to play the dvd
<hank3three3chat> not good, so it seems this laptop doesn't like 12,04
<popey> rml_home: on what ubuntu release?
<rml_home> popey: 11.10
<rml_home> It's probably really obvious, but I can't find how to turn it back to "focus on click"
<hank3three3chat> how do you shut down using the keys
<rml_home> hank3three3chat: let's not even go there :)
<rml_home> hank3three3chat: power off.  I have no "shutdown" icon
<popey> rml_home: running unity?
<hank3three3chat> well, unless I just use the power button, is that an option, because its just not doing anything and I am afraid to just pull the usb drive out
<hank3three3chat> its just a black screen
<rml_home> popey: unfortunately yes.  I'd ditch it in a second if I could
<popey> â¹
<rml_home> <-- quite a N00b
<rml_home> my Google-fu fails me on this
<popey> rml_home: â¹
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: you online today rather than having you hair done :P
<czajkowski> I am here
<czajkowski> did you miss me
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<rml_home> popey:  I know :(
<davmor2> czajkowski: well I threw hugs and insults at you and nothing
<czajkowski> I was kinda busy
<czajkowski> had a million and one jobs to do yesterday
<hank3three3chat> going to try the alternate cd, then if that doesn't work, then I will have to try another distro
<davmor2> czajkowski: and you're hair too
<czajkowski> well there is that
<czajkowski> started off with ocado being 3 hrs late which was annoying
<czajkowski> and then they arrived an hour early today :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: and out of those jobs which was the longest by far
<czajkowski> hair then drs
<davmor2> czajkowski: and no irc you should be ashamed of yourself woman ;)
<czajkowski> nope took the day off :)
 * daubers might need to get the office to get him a tablet :(
<daubers> unless I can get my phone to do this stuff.. screen sizing might be an issue
<gord> tape several phones together
<DJones> daubers: I would recommend a transformer prime, connectbot works great for ssh/irssi, full screen & full keyboard :)
<gord> i recommend taping several phones together
<daubers> DJones: Input isn't so much of an issue, it'd be more navigation :)
<daubers> gord: Might be more expensive
<DJones> gord: You've got to write the display driver to get multiple phones taped together acting as a single screen :)
<gord> well no, you just zoom in and move each one to a corner
<popey> there's an app for that
<arsen> ^_^
<gord> you might need to purchase a special stick to move them all at once
<arsen> [C]ZaiQQ  iStick
<arsen> try that again, iStick
<gord> i'll wait for the iStick pro
<sagaci> is there something available for gnome/lxde that is green-as-grass simple to resize massive images
<sagaci> I know you can use gimp but that's a pain
<davmor2> daubers: if you have an android phone you can try out airdroid maybe
<daubers> davmor2: Nah, it's more that I'm starting to get so busy I'm forgetting things, so I've written an android app to be my secretary
<daubers> Trying to cram all the information into a quick display thing on the phone is priving difficult
<daubers> proving even
<gord> anyone who uses spotify know if its possible to get it to respect multimedia keys?
<gord> need to upgrade my bank account - been meaning to do it for ages, the websites idea of help isn't the best http://gordallott.com/share/thanks.png
<sagaci> didn't think you'd need that much more help
<gord> its like the only option they have a little help button for ;)
<bigcalm> Haha
<arsen> lol.
<bigcalm> ali1234: I can wait for the sgs3 to be out before I renew my contract and not lose anything I already have. I'll just continue to be billed at the same rate that I am right now
<bigcalm> ali1234: This is from a T-Mobile drone worker. I drove to Telford town centre just for this information
<DJones> bigcalm: Did they say when it was due out
<bigcalm> DJones: nobody knows
<bigcalm> DJones: they haven't heard from their Samsung rep. for a while. It'll be one of the things they are eager to know as well
<bigcalm> DJones: there might be a 22nd May reveal
<DJones> I've got no doubt it'll be out before I'm due to renew (October), I'm seriously considering cancelling my contract when it runs out and going with giffgaff for the unlimited data, its not as if my phone will be out of date/obsolete by then
<bigcalm> I've found that I don't use the data allowance I have
<bigcalm> Except for when VirginMedia disappear for a week
<bigcalm> Can you re-open a closed ticket on Rackspace?
<DJones> I use data more than the phone, even their minimum plan with 100 minutes would more than enough for me, I use 2/3rd of my data allowance regularly, but I'm careful to avoid any big downloads when on 3G, I save that for wifi connections, unlimited data would give more use of the tablet using the phone as a hotspot
<bigcalm> I guess I don't over-use it as I'm always at home
<bigcalm> So the allowance I have is enough for when I'm out
<popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1624/detail/
 * popey pokes the redditors
<popey> bah
<popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/rhemh/precise_london_uk_release_party/
 * sagaci settled with gimp
 * BigRedS upvotes
 * MartijnVdS upboats
 * Daviey downvotes
<kirrus> Daviey: just can't resist going against the crowd? ;) :P
<Daviey> exacta-mundo :)
<Daviey> (i didn't really)
<BigRedS> That ubuntu subreddit looks refreshingly free of DE arguments actually
 * daubers goes and complains about ALL the DE's :)
<BigRedS> haha
<davmor2> gord: yay the app install code landed and then I broked it
<davmor2> Daviey: if you can't help going against the crowd why do you use Ubuntu, surely linux from scratch would be better for bucking the trend ;)
<kirrus> no, gentoo! ;)
<Daviey> davmor2: I just run my OS from an initramfs, i find it much more efficient
<czajkowski> herrrrrrro
<dwatkins> hiya czajkowski
<popey> ooh
<popey> http://www.netbooknews.com/47197/nokia-working-on-two-new-low-end-meego-smartphones/
<gebbione> hi how do you install getlibs on ubuntu
<gebbione> ?
<gebbione> most links on google fail
<popey> gebbione: what do you want getlibs for?
<gebbione> adobe air
<gebbione> i just got it
<gebbione> the link to the old place where it was hosted is gone
<popey> erk
<gebbione> ??
<ali1234> what's getlibs?
<ali1234> is it like winetricks?
<gebbione> no clue ... i just need it for adobe air installation
<gebbione> https://www.hipchat.com/help/page/how-do-i-install-hipchat-on-64-bit-linux
<DJones> ali1234: Just googling, I presume its this "getlibs is a program designed to automatically solve dependencies for 32-bit programs on 64-bit installations of Ubuntu."
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> so yeah
<ali1234> so won't that completely mess up your install if you run it on a multiarch system?
<directhex> quiet you! no logic allowed!
<bigcalm> :D
<directhex> using random scripts to inject files into /usr is logical and safe!
<ali1234> is it worth using raw disk partitions for virtualbox guests? any performance improvement?
<davmor2> czajkowski: BOO!
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello ello ello ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: downside how miffed would you be that I just put chewing gum in your hair?  upside I told you it was still wrapped and you got a free piece of gum :D
<czajkowski> you know better
<davmor2> czajkowski: that almost sounded like you were back :D
<popey> when i was 5 i once wound chewing gum round my head
<popey> when my parents were out
<arsen> lol.
<popey> i remember my sister cutting it out of my hair
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> :( ouch
<popey> round my face top to bottom, not front to back
<popey> so only got my fringe really
<popey> fun tho
<BigRedS> haha!
<bigcalm> popey: oddball :)
<czajkowski> messer
<hank3three3chat> I just installed 12.04 but can't find the synaptic package manager, neither can I get to settings apart from going through update manager,
<hank3three3chat> where have they gone
<bigcalm> Software Centre is where you add remove programs now
<hank3three3chat> so where is that?
 * brobostigon installed synaptic, and uses that anyway.
<bigcalm> Press the super key (windows key) and start typing the name of the app
<popey> I was 5!
<popey> hank3three3chat: we dont ship synaptic by default now
<brobostigon> maybe excusable then, we have all done stupid things.
<bigcalm> popey: so it's ok if Sam does it as well? ;)
<popey> he's cleverer than me âº
<bigcalm> Haha
<brobostigon> thats not a word.
<brobostigon> cleverer*
<popey> yes, it is
<brobostigon> it doesnt look right.
<hank3three3chat> so can you install synaptic? Plus what repositories are available now
<popey> did you understand the message i was conveying?
<popey> if yes, it's a word :)_
<brobostigon> yes, i understood. i dont think it will be in the dictionary.
<gord> i am the clevermosterist
<popey> hank3three3chat: press Super+A (super is the windows key), then type synaptic, does it appear at the bottom?
<popey> brobostigon: think again
<brobostigon> popey: ok.
<bigcalm> It's in the popey dictionary
<popey> "cleverercomparative of clevÂ·er (Adjective)
<popey> "
<brobostigon> wow.
<popey> (yes, it does look wrong)
<popey> which was why I wrote it
<hank3three3chat> yes
<popey> hank3three3chat: click it
 * brobostigon bows down to popey's english skills.
<popey> ITYM English ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<hank3three3chat> popey:did click the white box with synaptic written in there but nothing happened
<hank3three3chat> popey: I did get numbers in the left panel against everything, and don't know how to get rid of them
<popey> hank3three3chat: what version of ubuntu are you yusing?
<hank3three3chat> 12.04
<popey> hank3three3chat: the other alternative is to open a terminal with "CTRL+ALT+T" and then type "sudo apt-get install synaptic" in it
<popey> or click this:- apt://synaptic
<popey> that might work ;S
<hank3three3chat> ah ok, I can do that, but how do I get rid of the numbers
<hank3three3chat> synaptic is installing
<popey> stab super key a few times
<popey> its a bug
<hank3three3chat> ah, that did it
<hank3three3chat> thank you
<popey> np
<ali1234> searching the main dash for uninstalled applications no longer works because everyone whinged about it
<ali1234> you have to click the bookshelf thing first
<popey> yeah, thats why I said Super+A
<ali1234> a
<ali1234> er, yeah, super A does nothing here
<popey> thats the apps lens
<popey> "bookshelf" âº
<popey> Super+A = Apps, Super+F = Files, Super+M = Music
<hank3three3chat> repositories, what is available for this now? do I need to install any?
<popey> hank3three3chat: in general, no
<hank3three3chat> ok
<popey> unless there's some specific app you need which we don't have packaged
<popey> like spotify, chrome, skype..
<brobostigon> i think the partner repo has changed.
<ali1234> gnuradio :P
<davmor2> ali1234: press and hold the windows key and read the keymap if you are stuck
<hank3three3chat> that was what I was thinking about
<ali1234> davmor2: nothing happens when i press and hold the windows key
<ali1234> because i specifically disabled that ridiculous and annoying behaviour
<brobostigon> hank3three3chat: you should be able to add it, with the software sources app.
<hank3three3chat> ok, will have a look
<davmor2> ali1234: well that's why it doesn't work then
<ali1234> yeah, probably
<hank3three3chat> ok, having a problem here, can't find spottily, chrome or Skype not installed
<hank3three3chat> and can't find software sources app
<brobostigon> hank3three3chat: software sources, is in one of synaptics menus. and for chrome, you need to add the google repo.
<popey> hank3three3chat: open Ubuntu Software Centre, Edit menu, Software Sources at the bottom
<hank3three3chat> popey: dont have that option
<hank3three3chat> I have Ubuntu Software Sources Centre open, but no Edit Options and no Software sources
<hank3three3chat> how do I take a picture of the desktop
<davmor2> gord: can you try something dude,  open a terminal run a command in it like lsusb -v then open the hud and try and type something
<hank3three3chat> this isn't easy
<gord> davmor2, fine for me
<davmor2> gord: for me it is typing the result I expect in hud in the terminal
<popey> hank3three3chat: printscreen takes screenshots
<popey> davmor2: wfm
<hank3three3chat> popey:not available
<hank3three3chat> popey: it isn't even in the Ubuntu Software Centre
<hank3three3chat> now what do I do
<davmor2> gord: must of been a glitch I went to firefox and back to terminal and now it's fine odd
<popey> hank3three3chat: what's not available?
<popey> hank3three3chat: can you use longer sentences to explain exactly what the issue is?
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: the printscreen button takes screenshots,  PrtScn
<popey> (it's a button on your keyboard)
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: if you can't find that then click on the ubuntu logo in the launcher and type in screenshot and select that
<hank3three3chat> ok, got screenshot
<hank3three3chat> need to upload to imgur then show you
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: For skype that should be added latter today hopefully in the partners repo
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: for chome you need to goto google or install chromium which is the free version of chrome
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: spoify I have no idea about popey or bigcalm can possibly help you there
<davmor2> spotify even
<popey> i was only mentioning spotify ass an example
 * brobostigon beeps the just a minute bell, and mentions repition.
<brobostigon> i was just watching that, dead funny.
<hank3three3chat> i.imgur.com/wdhWH.png this shows the Software Centre with no Edit Menu or Sofware Sources
 * davmor2 accidentally shoots brobostigon with a nurf gun
 * brobostigon cries.
<brobostigon> hank3three3chat: can you got to synaptic, you can open software sources from that.
<brobostigon> get*
<davmor2> brobostigon: stop with the synaptic already ;)
<hank3three3chat> ok, just one question though, shouldn't this be easier, I am completely lost
<popey> hank3three3chat: thats not the whole desktop
<brobostigon> davmor2: eh, :)
<popey> only the software center window
<bigcalm> Put on your red shoes and dance the blues
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/03/red-hat/ This is impressive stuff. Good for FOSS all round
<gord> oh its randomly quote bowie day?
<popey> hank3three3chat: the menu is at the top of the screen
<hank3three3chat> ok, give me a sec
<bigcalm> gord: it happened to be what's playing in my headset :)
<bigcalm> Shall we have the Safety Dance?
<hank3three3chat> ok, found Software Centre, just changed Server to Main Server, see what happens
<hank3three3chat> now I can't remember what I was doing
<ali1234> does spotify even work on 12.04?
<ali1234> for me it just crashes
<bigcalm> I'm guessing that it works for popey
<hank3three3chat> this is so confusing
<brobostigon> hank3three3chat: http://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/ thats the google repo, for chrome, on that page, add it with that software sourcesd app.
<gord> it does work now
<gord> you may need to update
<davmor2> bigcalm: men without hats great tune
<bigcalm> :)
<ali1234> ah i think i just grabbed the deb rather than adding their repo?
<ali1234> that's probably why
<bigcalm> Possibly the case :)
<bigcalm> There was even an update today
<ali1234> also, why am i not surprised that people are confused by global menu?
 * bigcalm whips the windows 2008 server to boot more quickly
<davmor2> brobostigon: or just install the ubuntu version from the chrome page and it automatically adds the repo for you?
<brobostigon> davmor2: or that, yes. both ways work.
<ali1234> hmmmmmm
<ali1234> software centre is a mess now
<davmor2> ali1234: how so?
<ali1234> the graphics are messed up
<ali1234> there's a big white square on the right hand side
<ali1234> and the grid lines on the apps categories are overflowing their boundary
<czajkowski> christel: oi lady!
<bigcalm> Are you inferring that christel is a lady?
<davmor2> ali1234: you on precise?  if so are you uptodate?
<daubers> bigcalm: Everyone on the interwebs is gender neutral and should be addressed as "Oi you" or "it"
 * christel tickles czajkowski 
<ali1234> there are no updates for software centre
<davmor2> ali1234: this is what I see from a fresh install of yesterdays beta2 candidate http://ubuntuone.com/3IvIgR8yPRBThQ9hRb7Wno
<ali1234> yeah now maximize it
<davmor2> ali1234: Yeap exactly the same only now I see the recommended for you section at the bottom
<hank3three3chat> I hope this gets easier for the final release
<czajkowski> christel: cheeky lady :)
<DJones> If anybody has some Game vouchers/gift cards, just saw a tweet saying that the administrators aren't redeeming them
<christel> says you!
<davmor2> christel: I wouldn't stand for that you know that czajkowski keep calling you a lady ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: christel is a lady!
<hank3three3chat> Synaptic Package manager doesnt come installed how can you find out what is in the repos
<christel> she is!
<hank3three3chat> that should have been if the â¦â¦.
<hank3three3chat> finally got google chrome
<DJones> hank3three3chat: Do you have "Software Centre" (didn't see the early part of your conversation)
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: open software center and search down the categories and then find an app,  or if you know the apps name type it in,  or type in a description of the app etc etc etc
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: for chrome you just go to https://www.google.com/chrome/index.html and click on the download button done
<hank3three3chat> ( think this is the most difficult version we have had
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: do you have a smart phone or tablet?
<ali1234> davmor2: this is what i see http://imagebin.org/205565
<hank3three3chat> tablet just went back to be repaired, and my hone is a cheap one, what did I need them for?
<davmor2> ali1234: yeah that is the older version of USC there was a css update in gtk3 that broke it you don't have the black lines anymore
<davmor2> ali1234: did you remove a default app by any chance?
<ali1234> yeah plenty of them
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: okay so on the tablet how did you find apps?
<hank3three3chat> went into the google play, and looked for it there
<hank3three3chat> it was already there
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: right so think of software center the same way as google play and that might help
<ali1234> yes, just think of ubuntu as as crippled as a typical phone/tablet OS, and you'll cease having any problems using it :)
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: chrome can't ship in a distro by default which is why it isn't there chromium is in the repo
<DJones> davmor2: Interesting you saying that, I was just thinking how similar google play and software centre were
<davmor2> DJones: it's an easiest analogy I can think of
<ali1234> it's not an analogy, they are exactly the same thing
<DJones> Makes sense
<davmor2> ali1234: right what dose dpkg -l ubuntu-desktop say?
<hank3three3chat> but if that is the case google play and software centre, you wouldn't need repos for thingsâ¦..
<ali1234> ii  ubuntu-desktop 1.265          The Ubuntu desktop system
<ali1234> hank3three3chat: chrome is in google play because chrome is made by google
<davmor2> hank3three3chat: google play has repos it just doesn't let you access them
<hank3three3chat> Sorry for not getting this, I will keep playing with it, to see if I can get used to itâ¦..
<davmor2> ali1234: and what does dpkg -l software-center say please?
<ali1234> ii  software-cente 5.1.13.1       Utility for browsing, installing, and removi
<popey> hank3three3chat: what is it you actually want to install from a repo?
<popey> whats the goal here?
<davmor2> ali1234: the latest version is 5.1.13.2
<davmor2> ali1234: that'll be the issue dude
<hank3three3chat> I don't know, maybe I'm just getting confusedâ¦..I have noticed something, can't get the Network sharing to work
<hank3three3chat> need to have a look at that
<popey> network sharing?
<hank3three3chat> so I can share between computers, I click on Browse Networks and its not seeing the other computers I have open
<hank3three3chat> and I can't see this one either
<ali1234> popey: how do i get the link to a publish U1 file? you know when you right click, and the "copy link" is ghosted
<hank3three3chat> I think I'll come back to that some other time
<popey> hank3three3chat: ahh, gotcha, file sharing between computers, I understand
<popey> ali1234: it only enables once the file is synced and a link has been made
<hank3three3chat> sorry :(
<popey> hank3three3chat: not a problem
<ali1234> it says i am fully synced
<ali1234> just noticed i've got the wobbly resizing menus now
<ali1234> hmm every time i start the U1 client it adds this computer again
<ali1234> so i've got it listed 3 times now
<davmor2> ali1234: is it that or did you not delete them off each time you have done a fresh install?
<ali1234> i only started using U1 a month ago
<ali1234> so far it has utterly failed to work
<popey> I'm warming to U1 :D
<popey> we might make it so people can get the podcast via U1
<ali1234> actually that's not true, i signed up for an account ages ago
 * davmor2 loves his U1
<ali1234> i just never tried to use it until last month
<popey> so they get a file dropped into a folder before the rss feeds are updated
<davmor2> popey: nice although you know that will fill up a whole lot of space in someones u1 system :D
<popey> nope
<popey> we'd put just the latest 3 eps in it
<davmor2> popey: that makes sense
<ali1234> so instead of downloading automatically in my music player, i'll have to load up U1 client, enter my password, add my computer again, click sync, then open nautilus, then double click the file...
<gord> popey, only the latest three episodes? would be nice to get season shares
<hank3three3chat> need to go out, back later
<davmor2> ali1234: no you just sync the folder,  to be honest it sounds like you might be having issues on your system you might want to think about a nice fresh install once beta2 is out
<gord> ali1234, i don't think the u1 share option is for everyone, but people who already use u1, then its a case of getting rb to watch the share folder
<ali1234> except it isn't
<gord> it is here :)
<ali1234> because U1 a) doesn't load up when i restart the computer, b) doesn't remember my password and c) doesn't remember my synchronization settings
<davmor2> ali1234: and yet it does here on the 3 precise machines I'm running I'm assuming on popeys and I know it works on gords
<popey> have you tried rebooting?
<ali1234> i hope you're kidding
<ali1234> probably can only be reproduced by rebooting...
<davmor2> popey: me yeap I shutdown reboot and all sorts :D
<ali1234> *problem
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/205570
<ali1234> every time i reboot i get a new device...
<popey> #ubuntuone can probaly help fix that
<ali1234> this is probably related to rhythmbox not working with U1 at all
<davmor2> ali1234: do you have seahorse installed?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> i use it all the time
<ali1234> to setup ssh keys
<davmor2> ali1234: can you open seahorse and chesk if under passwords you see Ubuntu One?
<ali1234> nope
<davmor2> check even
<ali1234> in "other keys" i have "ubuntu accomplishments" from when i tested that out. and guess what, that didn't work properly either...
<davmor2> ali1234: no under passwords
<ali1234> yeah, i just said, i don't have it
<davmor2> ali1234: well that is where is stores it's creds so you don't need to keep logging in so I'm guess your install is slightly broken
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> i already knew that though...
<gebbione> hi guys, the create wireless network feature does not work on my ubuntu ... any troubleshooting that i could do?
<gord> hrm, everything went well with the remote (noway) lucid -> oneiric upgrade, but at the last hurdle, gdm/lightdm aren't starting
<daubers> AlanBell: Complex travel arrangements?
<davmor2> AlanBell: hey dude do you want to advertise the Ubuntu Happy hour for wolvo thursday 19th and we'll make it the moon under water just so bigcalm can have 2 steak dinners that week :D
<AlanBell> davmor2: I think I am in London during the day tomorrow
<AlanBell> so train out to reading, and train to North Camp, walk to Ash Vale and back to Farnham I think
<daubers> AlanBell: Complicated as in tube to paddington then train to reading
<AlanBell> yeah, that bit is fine
<daubers> ah, I see :)
<daubers> You can go direct (no changes) to Frn North I think
<AlanBell> davmor2: yeah, I will set up the LoCo directory entry later
<AlanBell> daubers: that is a long walk!
<davmor2> AlanBell: cool
<daubers> AlanBell: Sucker lift?
<daubers> I mean get a lift from someone nice?
<AlanBell> north camp to ash vale is not far, that will be fine
<jacobw> evening
<davmor2> jacobw: morning
<jacobw> as you wish
<davmor2> jacobw: tis always morning on the t'interweb
<bigcalm> davmor2: ya bugger
<bigcalm> Will have only one steak that week :P
<dwatkins> anyone live in Swansea and have an old copy of the phonebook, by any chance?
<davmor2> bigcalm: ah 2 burgers then
 * bigcalm contemplates sandwiches
<davmor2> bigcalm: the chilli at the moon is good
<jacobw> dwatkins: odd request
<jacobw> o/ hamitron
<dwatkins> jacobw: yeah, friend of mine got an e-mail meant for the person
<hamitron> o/
<Azelphur> woot, made Â£18.60 in one day playing bitcoin stock exchange \m/
<MartijnVdS> 18/day? that's not a lot
<MartijnVdS> I mean
<MartijnVdS> not enough to cover ALL the expenses :)
<Azelphur> well, I just bought a buttload of shares and put them up for twice what I paid for them, someone already bought some
<Azelphur> and I should be getting 10-15%/mo returns on the shares I have too
<Azelphur> this is fun :D
<MartijnVdS> Ruining the world economy, one Â£ at a time  ;)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: indeed
<ali1234> it's already ruined
<dwatkins> aha, my screen session wasn't using unicode, so MartijnVdS's line looked like 'Ruining the world economy, one question mark at a time" ...
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: ...
<dwatkins> o.O
<dwatkins> is that an ellipsis, MartijnVdS? ;)
<MartijnVdS> maybe :)
<MartijnVdS> For the electronics geeks: http://www.zazzle.nl/ik_geef_slechts_negatieve_terugkoppeling_t_shirt-235418768503010114
<bigcalm> Heh
<mgdm> heh, nice
<mgdm> gordonjcp: see above :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E03  True to His Colours - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/03/28/s05e03-true-to-his-colours/
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<dwatkins> I like the t-shirt
<gordonjcp> mgdm: heh
<bigcalm> How does one send all traffic for 1 IP address to a specific interface?
<ali1234> oh! i know that one
<ali1234> sudo iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p tcp -d 87.237.38.200 --dport 26000 -j REDIRECT --to-ports 26000
<ali1234> all traffic to  87.237.38.200:26000 instead gets redirected to localhost:26000
<bigcalm> No, I mean all traffic from a server to a specific IP address is sent via a specific interface (VPN in this instance)
<ali1234> erm, with routes?
<ali1234> route add <ip> <interface>?
<ali1234> normally vpn client sets all that up automatically
<ali1234> but you have to configure the server to tell the client what routes to set up
<ali1234> which is of course dependent on which vpn server you use
<bigcalm> And pinging works, thanks ali1234 :)
<ali1234> also, that's called a split vpn
<bigcalm> ali1234: did you see my comments about T-Mobile earlier today?
 * directhex moos. moo!
<ali1234> erm... no
<bigcalm> You asked me to let you know
 * directhex moos again. moo!
<ali1234> they said you'll keep the rate?
<bigcalm> Waiting until the sgs3 was out will not affect my current discounts. I will continue to be billed just as I am now until I cancel or renew
<ali1234> well from experience, when i forgot to renew, i got the same basic rate but lost the discount for the period until i renewed
<ali1234> which was only 2 weeks
<ali1234> they bill by the day when you're out of contract apparently
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> This is from the bloke in the T-Mobile shop
<ali1234> so do letme know what *actually* happens :)
<bigcalm> I might pop in on the 10th to see what's available then
<bigcalm> Heh
<directhex> loldroid!
<ali1234> winbian!
<ali1234> is ISC actually available for the SGS or are people just confusing it with the SGS2?
<ali1234> ICS*
<OmNomDePlume> Nope, not available.
<OmNomDePlume> Samsung claim there's not enough internal memory, or something.
<directhex> they could repartition, but that's a user support nightmare
<bigcalm> Are any Alans awake right now?
<bigcalm> Any of the Farnham peeps taking the train from Farnham station to get to the RAT in July?
<AlanBell> probably
<bigcalm> Ah, grand
<bigcalm> I will book the hotel then :)
<bigcalm> Tis the one you linked to
<bigcalm> When I showed Hayley, she laughed after reading the info
<bigcalm> Staying for 2 nights, so we can take Sunday at our own pace
<bigcalm> Probably quite hungover
<AlanBell> I am sure it is a nice place to stay
<Myrtti> "any Alans"
<Myrtti> lol
<bigcalm> Myrtti: do you recall which room you had?
<bigcalm> I've just booked Decadence
<bigcalm> Alan Bell, Alan Pope, Alan Lord
<bigcalm> All in Farnham
<Myrtti> bigcalm: Lady Hamilton, which was a bit cramped
<popey> âº
<Myrtti> it was interesting to try to climb into the bed and out of it in a hurry
<bigcalm> Myrtti: yeah, we passed on that one as it looked cramped
<Myrtti> alas it was the only thing available when we booked it
<bigcalm> In a hurry - late mornings? :)
<popey> not quite sure how i am getting back from the rat
<bigcalm> Anybody want to do anything on the Sunday?
<bigcalm> Or will we all be nursing hang overs?
<popey> âº
<popey> minecraft?
<bigcalm> Haha
 * popey plays bedcraft
<bigcalm> The hotel does have free wifi
<bigcalm> Nighty night
<popey> oh no
<popey> you misunderstand
<bigcalm> I do indeed
<bigcalm> Aha
<AlanBell> popey: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=668262 resolved fixed upstream apparently
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 668262 in User Interface "low letters cut off at the bottom in "Now playing" song title" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<AlanBell> it is quite easy to fix in Ubuntu now, I just got a bit confused with the patching process
<popey> doesnt need rb 3.4?
<bigcalm> Rackspace cloud machines are quick to reboot :)
<AlanBell> popey: my one line suggestion fixes it in the current RB
<AlanBell> it needs
<AlanBell> gtk_widget_set_size_request (GTK_WIDGET (header->priv->song),-1,25);
<AlanBell> added around line 254 of widgets/rb-header.c
<AlanBell> then it works just fine
<popey> is that on an ubuntu bug?
<AlanBell> bug 811475
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 811475 in One Hundred Paper Cuts "Descender letters (g j p q y) get their tail cut off in current song" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811475
<popey> be good to get a FFe for that
<popey> well, we've got time
<AlanBell> to get a new upstream or to patch the one we have?
<popey> to patch our rb
<AlanBell> ok, I will need to figure out how to do a patch again I guess
<AlanBell> or even better someone else will :)
<AlanBell> anyhow, not right now :)
<AlanBell> night all o/
<bigcalm> Night AlanBell
<bigcalm> This routing is giving me a headache, I should sleep
<popey> nn AlanBell and thanks
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-29
<DJones> Morning
<AlanBell> morning all
<popey> o/
<daubers> o/
<daubers> Sad day today :(
 * daubers puts on foggy mounain breakdown
<diplo> nice and clear here daubers, only a little bit up from you.
<diplo> BBC1 weather lady said it should all clear up again and be 22+ again today
<diplo> and Friday
<daubers> diplo: :P It's probably Earl Scruggs most identifiable tune (other than the theme from Beverly Hillbillies)
<diplo> I have a linux server that I want to automount a USB drive on, do a backup and eject, If i remember correctly there was a way with DBUS to do this ?
<diplo> Still none the wiser :)
<daubers> diplo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icMTVV5Lwaw
<mje> an recent ubuntu 10.10 regular update just failed for me with "Setting up mysql-server-5.1 (5.1.61-0ubuntu0.10.10.1) ... Unknown option: i" how might I start debugging this?
<mje> Usage: logger [option...]
<diplo> I don't actually mind that sorta tune daubers
<daubers> diplo: He passed away last night :(
<diplo> I was about to say that was Steve M ... then noticed the title
<diplo> :(
<daubers> Steve Martin's article is all over twitter
<daubers> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/01/steve-martin-earl-scruggs.html
<mje> found it, something had installed /usr/local/bin logger which was being found before /usr/bin/logger
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski all
<czajkowski> ello MooDoo
<daubers> Hmm... reseller wants me to go to London today, hasn't told me where, isn't answering any phones
<daubers> Guess that can wait until tomorrow then
 * AlanBell is going to London later
<AlanBell> then Reading :)
<daubers> :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daubers> Looks like I'm not going to London until tomorrow \o/
 * popey is looking forward to beer in reading
<daubers> Can't drink tonight :( Since it's curry night, will have a curry though :)
<popey> oooh, curry, yay!
<diplo> Anyone played with udev rules and usb hdd ?
<bigcalm> No, but I have a feeling you're about to ;)
<bigcalm> Sorry
<daubers> *sigh*
<bigcalm> I just realised that I sound just like the peeps who give flippant answers to my own questions
 * daubers goes to London
<popey> uhoh
<bigcalm> daubers: don't do it! Life is too short as it is
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<arsen> nothing wrong with london >:(
<arsen> ish.
<BigRedS> London's awesome
<bigcalm> London is too big and crowded
<bigcalm> I grew up in the countryside
<BigRedS> Oh
<BigRedS> I grew up in London
<BigRedS> and consequently the countryside is too big and empty
<bigcalm> :)
<BigRedS> Though beer prices are hilarious :)
<BigRedS> Sometimes they begin with a '1' !
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> The ale I was drinking in Wolverhampton last week was 1.60 a pint
<BigRedS> yeah, that is a very nice thing about being out here
<BigRedS> though I was happy with London prices until I got used to these, so now london seems astronomically expensive
<arsen> I grew up in the Country, deep deep nowhereland, i live/work in the city :P
<arsen> both are great :)
<BigRedS> Coventry's ring road is the scariest road I've ever used
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: You've never been to Utrecht :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: Nope :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Three-lane roundabouts with traffic lights on _some_ exits (but not all)
<TheOpenSourcerer> pah - try the main route from Jaipur to Delhi
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: dozens of them
<oimon> what is it about these CEOs? shuttleworth into space, james cameron on the sea bed, and jeff bezos wants to dredge the sea bed for some old rocket engine
<popey> s/CEOs/people with insane amounts of cash/
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: ah, that doesn't sound *so* bad
<BigRedS> coventry's thing is that the left-hand lane is where joining traffic comes in and twenty yards later it's where leaving traffic exits
<BigRedS> so there's this furious lane-changing going on
<gord> if i had lots of money, i'd go into space too
<BigRedS> space is cool
<BigRedS> I wanna go
<directhex> BigRedS, near ikea?
<brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
<BigRedS> directhex: hm?
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> hi popey
<oimon> how can i get scp to ignore my private key files?
<directhex> BigRedS, i know i've had to do some "interesting" lane changing when going to ikea in coventry
<BigRedS> Ohhh
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm not sure what's near there, but I gather it's the same all the way round
<dwatkins> popey: the pub you're meeting at tonight is where I used to hang out with people from SGI on curry night, I'll let them know you're there in case some inter-UNIX geekery can be achieved ;)
<popey> dwatkins: thanks!
<dwatkins> I thought it was rather apt you'd chosen Thursday, popey :)
<brobostigon> curry night, :)
<dwatkins> (also, 'fun n frolics' is an inside joke, but I won't bore you with details)
<dwatkins> popey: if a tall bloke with long hair by the name of Matt approaches you, it's all my fault.
<popey> :D
<popey> did you tell him to look for elvis?
<dwatkins> haha, I shall
<BigRedS> "Find the most moneysupermarket guy in the pub, it's him"
<Myrtti> MSN having trouble again? Empathy complains about a "Network problem"
<DJones> Myrtti: I#ve got it connected via pidgin on windows without any issues
<brobostigon> i have it connected with bitlbee also.
<Myrtti> boo
<Dave2> Works for me via bitlbee and my phone
<Dave2> dwatkins: are people going to turn up dressed as clowns then?
<Dave2> (Although, to return to my previous line, I don't actually talk to anyone on MSN, so it could be broken for all I know.)
<Dave2> (...nope, talked to myself, all working.)
<Myrtti> right, I wonder why I'm not logged in then
<Myrtti> well anyway, if I put a wrong password in, it complains about that
<Myrtti> if I put the correct it complains about "network error"
<Dave2> "Network error", the most frustrating of all Empathy errors.
<Myrtti> ikr
<oimon> trying to copy some files via expect script, copies first few and then continues with script after only downloading 29% of the 4th file out of 6. any ideas?
<MartijnVdS> Expect script?
<BigRedS> using expect to talk to some client that copies files I'd guess
<BigRedS> hard to debug without knowing what expect is talking to...
<bigcalm> When will I learn to do time sheets at the time of doing something and not a few days later?
<bigcalm> I hate plucking numbers out of the air
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> It's hard to do stuff here without it getting logged somewhere, so times are easy to find retrospectively
<BigRedS> then there's just the "did that really only take forty minutes? Damn." moments
<oimon> i managed to get ssh keys transferred to the server in question, and did away with the expect scripts :D
<oimon> weird problem , but no time to investigate and no ssh access on remote server
<BigRedS> you were using expect and ftp?
<oimon> expect and scp BigRedS
<oimon> ssh disabled using scponly or simliar
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> that's native in openssh server now
<BigRedS> which is really really nice
<BigRedS> no more faffing with chroots and fs permissions
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: hug
<czajkowski> davmor2: hello
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: on multiple servers now then dude?
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah shush you ;)
<andrewebdev> I previously installed GIMP from a third party ppa. A recent update uninstalled Gimp and some dependencies. Now I cannot even install Gimp from default ubuntu sources, even though I removed the ppa. How can I fix this?
<andrewebdev> 11.10 btw
<oimon> BigRedS, how do you mean, native in openssh?
<davmor2> andrewebdev: so once you removed the ppa did you do a sudo apt-get update?  if not open a terminal do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install gimp  and see what happens then
<andrewebdev> davmor2, sorry I forgot to mention, yes I did do that as well as upgrade
<davmor2> andrewebdev: did it give you an error of any sort?
<andrewebdev> davmor2, http://dpaste.com/723397/
<BigRedS> oimon: yeah
<BigRedS> it's got directives for restricting users to sftp only, chrooted to ~
<BigRedS> you can do it by username or group membership
<davmor2> andrewebdev: looks like it it is still seeing the ppa version how did you remove the ppa?
<BigRedS> oimon: it's been native upstream for a while but I think it only hit debian in squeeze
<andrewebdev> davmor2, I just removed it from my software sources
<dutchie> what twitter client do people use nowadays?
<bigcalm> TweetDeck on my phone. Don't bother with other devices
<davmor2> andrewebdev: have a look in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/  and ensure the ppa's .list file is removed, then do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get purge gimp libgimp2.0 gimp-data && sudo apt-get install gimp
<davmor2> andrewebdev: if you still get the error then try sudo apt-get -f install gimp
<andrewebdev> davmor2, thanks... in progress
<oimon> dutchie, hotot , which is native and also a chrome app
<davmor2> andrewebdev: cool glad to help
<davmor2> dutchie: I use 2 gwibber on ubuntu and the official app on android
<BigRedS> dutchie: Firefox
<oimon> software center not letting me click "install" again..grr
<davmor2> oimon: are you connected to the net?
<oimon> i hope so :D
<oimon> have to run software center as sudo to get it to work
<oimon> known bug, apparently
<oimon> end up just using apt-get
<davmor2> oimon: no it's not known at all,  I work in the software center team I use it all day long and no need for that.  There was ages ago due to the fact that the admin group got removed from precise.  You really need to do a fresh install, that bug got fixed like a month + ago
<oimon> davmor2, i'm on lucid
<andrewebdev> thanks davmor2, that seemed to have worked :) ... gimp is now installing
<davmor2> oimon: hmmm odd do you have the bug number for that?
<oimon> davmor2, just checking my history
<oimon> davmor2, is ther a debug mode i can use to get output?
<oimon> WARNING:root:_on_trans_error: org.freedesktop.PolicyKit.Error.NotAuthorized: ('system-bus-name', {'name': ':1.831'}) is not authorized: org.debian.apt.install-packages
<oimon> davmor2, bug 785117
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 785117 in software-center (Ubuntu) "[MASTER] silently fails to install software after PolicyKit error" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785117
<davmor2> oimon: thanks
<oimon> nothing weird about my setup though
<oimon> 10.04.4
<davmor2> oimon: no I was getting mixed up with someone else my fault
<oimon> guys, what's the best tool for producing HDR photos on linux?
<MooDoo> oimon: http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20100323145610371/HDRImaging.html/%22%3ERead%20more
<oimon> cheers MooDoo
<oimon> i see qtgpqgphqgui wisely changed their name
<MartijnVdS> idspispopd?
<andrewebdev> davmor2, I'm back... gimp installed but I cannot run it now: I'm getting this error: gimp: error while loading shared libraries: libgegl-0.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<oimon> Qtpfsgui changed their name to luminance . i was getting confused about hdr tools
<davmor2> andrewebdev: sudo apt-get purge libgegl-0.0-0 && sudo apt-get install libgegl-0.0-0
<davmor2> andrewebdev: possibly just some extra fall out from the ppa
<andrewebdev> davmor2, :( not working... I still get: gimp: error while loading shared libraries: libbabl-0.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<davmor2> andrewebdev: sudo apt-get purge libbabl-0.0-0 && sudo apt-get install libbabl-0.0-0
<andrewebdev> oh right... I didn't notice it's a different package
<andrewebdev> thought it was still gegl
<andrewebdev> :P
<davmor2> andrewebdev: if you get any others after this,  type in lib_whatever and then hit tab and just keep purging and installing and hopefully it will work
<popey> whats the best way to get to the pub from the train station this evening?
<davmor2> popey: walk, that way you are really thirsty and appreciate the beer more
<davmor2> andrewebdev: any other issues or is it working now?
<oimon> anyone using gnome-panel in 12.04?
<andrewebdev> davmor2, just finished now, and yes, it's working perfectly
<davmor2> andrewebdev: Woohoo!
<andrewebdev> davmor2, thanks for all your help :)
<davmor2> andrewebdev: np's
<oimon> i.imgur.com/ZkAxV.png
<oimon> i'm getting the white application bars on the gnome panel for every app :(
<ali1234> ls ~
<popey> .
<popey> ..
<popey> goat_porn
<MartijnVdS> .wav
<BigRedS> I'm a tad worried by the goat_porn obsession in this channel
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it's just popey
<ali1234> on a 500GB partition, is it normal that 7.6G is "used"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes
<ali1234> *empty partition of course
<popey> 5% plus partition tables etc?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: see "-m" in man mkfs.ext2
<BigRedS> Yeah, that includes the 5% for privileged processes only
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: or tune2fs manpage
<ali1234> but 7.5GB is only 1.5%
<ali1234> also, reserved is not "used"
 * BigRedS fails at maths
<oimon> rm -f go*
<BigRedS> haha
<ali1234> if i run df as root will it show a different amount?
<BigRedS> that blasted goat porn keeps cropping up
<BigRedS> du might
<ali1234> i'm about to format this partition anyway
<oimon> mmm stale niknaks
<popey> feels like friday
<Dave2> It does. But for me it effectively is.
<Dave2> As I have tomorrow off. \o/
<gord> its not friday?! :(
<brobostigon> it is only vurry and beer thrsday.
<brobostigon> curry*
<brobostigon> :)
<oimon> feels like monday
<oimon> had yestereday off
<oimon> lovely day for it
<Dave2> I had Monday off as well
<Dave2> 3 day week \o/
<Dave2> I am, however, knackered. *wonders if he'll fall asleep at the pub*
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/905577/
<ali1234> how come the old partition started at 63 but the new one starts at 2048?
<davmor2> ali1234: because it does,  if you look at the block size it's hugely different
<ali1234> yeah what really has me puzzled is the partitions are now bigger than before
<davmor2> ali1234: I'm assuming you did a manual partition last time and had a separate home partition this time you only have 2 partitions not 3 might have something todo with it,  I'm assuming you did an automatic install this time
<AlanBell> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/ would be rather good if people could take some time to fill in these responses
<popey> AlanBell: website says 19:00 UTC, so we're expected at Pub at 8pm?
 * AlanBell set the team timezone to GB
<bigcalm> Why would my script in /etc/network/if-up.d not be running once a pptp tunnel is created?
<gord> ha, the video game Goldeneye 007 on the n64 actually has a fully working zx spectrum emulator inside it :D http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/911/
<directhex> wat
<oimon> http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAVA-RING-RARE-Sun-Microsystems-JAVA-ONE-Promo-/300495374337
<oimon> what to get the geek who has everything
<popey> smells like april fool to me
<popey> i once typed in a listing from a magazine which claimed there was a BASIC compiler in the CPC 464 ROM and you needed a machine code loader to make it run
<popey> you type in this hex, load your BASIC program from tape and then it writes machine code out to tape. you load that and...
<popey>     _               _ _    __             _
<popey>    / \   _ __  _ __(_) |  / _| ___   ___ | |
<popey>   / _ \ | '_ \| '__| | | | |_ / _ \ / _ \| |
<popey>  / ___ \| |_) | |  | | | |  _| (_) | (_) | |
<popey> /_/   \_\ .__/|_|  |_|_| |_|  \___/ \___/|_|
<popey>         |_|
<popey> appeared on the screen
<ali1234> a jumbled up mess of random lines appearedo on the screen? wow
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> :D
<oimon> in the age of internet, april fool needs to be banned, or removed from the web after 1st april
<davmor2> oimon: no they are great
<ali1234> hmm... the patch file at 256kb is big enough for 10 games and the emulator to be entirely within the patch
<popey> exactly
<popey> thats what I think it is
<popey> there's no way Rare would put a ROM out with all their old Ultimate games on it, they're very protective of them
<ali1234> its just about believeable because timesplitters has those minigames in it
<ali1234> but those are not emulated, and they are available through gameplay
<ali1234> and they are more or less original games
<gord> if someone built an n64 spectrum emulator that is just as impressive
<oimon> what's the difference between visiting gmail website in chromium, and adding the gmail app from the chrome store?
<gord> oimon, its just a link to gmail
<gord> oimon, same with their "youtube" app
<oimon> lame
<oimon> not an app at all then
<AlanBell> popey: annoyingly in edit mode the event talks about local time, and in read mode UTC
<popey> mad
<AlanBell> found ti
<AlanBell> the venue was set to UTC
<AlanBell> now fixed
<AlanBell> right, done for the day
<AlanBell> reading next
<popey> AlanBell: what time you going past farnborough north?
<popey> I might be able to jump on same train
<AlanBell> dunno yet, heading to paddington now
<popey> AlanBell: ok, lemme know when you know
<popey> AlanBell: not all trains stop at fbro tho
<popey> so nvm
<popey> oh, paddington wont go past fboro, nvm
<popey> *belm*
<bigcalm> Think I had too much tuna *burp*
<bigcalm> :S
<davmor2> bigcalm: uwwwwww fishy
<bigcalm> Yup
<daftykins> time to move some furniture to attack some mould on the walls >_<
<daftykins> crikey half 4 already
<davmor2> daftykins: no it's half 3 you only think it's half 4 cause there is a timepiece tellin you that :)
<gord> hmmm kindle touch, not sure i want one of those
<gord> i mean, its an ebook reader, why would you need a touch interface
<davmor2> gord: so you can elegantly turn the pages like you can on a real book ;)
<gord> not really, its still eink ;)
<gord> you could pretend to turn a page and it would show a really slow and jerky animation
<davmor2> gord: yay
<daftykins> davmor2: bah! :)
<gord> i'll stick with my kindle and its silly and obviously useless in this day and age, buttons
<ali1234> you just hate change
<ali1234> anything new is obviously better
<ali1234> and not forgetting: we have usability studies that PROVE that no buttons is better than buttons
<arsen> hah hi daftykins
<reaper4334> Does anyone know if it's possible to create a symbolic link with an incomplete filename using wildcards? e.g. link libexample.so to libexample.so.0.1.2, but where you don't necessarily know it's going to be ".0.1.2"
<reaper4334> I tried "ln -s libexample.so libexample.so.*" but that doesn't work, it simply doesn't find the lib when trying to link to it
<AlanBell> choochoo
<AlanBell> on the fast train to Reading
<directhex> reaper4334, yes, if there's only a single result from the wildcard
<directhex> reaper4334, the wildcard is expanded by the shell, so the app doesn't see it
<reaper4334> directhex: so "ln -s libexample.so.0.1.2 libexample.so" should work? perhaps I made a typo when trying it.. I'll give it another try now
<arsen> interesting video if anyone likes buildings! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT4VFGUk-b8
<reaper4334> directhex: Turns out it does work after all, I must have just made a typo the first time. Cheers :D
<ali1234> arsen: i want to play that game
<arsen> hit up, reaper4334 - find out what you did wrong :P
<reaper4334> arsen: It was a simple typo, I just found libexample.os which obviously should've been .so :P I feel stupid for not realising before asking ^^
<arsen> meh, i took out the entire office's phones earlier due to a even more stupid typo :P easy to do.
<reaper4334> yup lol
<daftykins> arsen: hey stranger :>
<daftykins> how goes?
<AlanBell> that was quick
<popey> you there?
<AlanBell> yup
<arsen> yeah all good thanks daftykins  :))
<arsen> how you doin? whatcha upto ?
<dwatkins> AlanBell: I'm surprise at the lack of response on open standards, as a lot of people have been quite vocal on it
<arsen> if you're in london - hit me up for a beer :)
<dwatkins> *surprised
<AlanBell> dwatkins well there is still time
<AlanBell> arsen beer is.in Reading toninght
<AlanBell> 25 minutes from paddington
 * popey decides to get the 18:02 from farnborough north
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Martin Fitzpatrick] root.abl.es, eat.abl.es, research.abl.es &..abl.es - http://www.mutube.com/mu/root-abl-es-eat-abl-es-research-abl-es-abl-es/
<daftykins> arsen: ooh, yeah i've got a job or two for the boss soon so may venture up to his flat. i'm in Portsmouth at the moment fixing the house up to sell :>
<daftykins> not bad myself - other than being stuck here with no xbox as billy no mates :D
<daftykins> just been snowboarding with mates in Tignes too \o/
<daftykins> my bruises have nearly all gone
<arsen> arh im already engaged AlanBell :D sorreh
<daftykins> :O
<arsen> arh - awesome, i did Jackson Hole this year
<daftykins> what's that?
 * daubers decides to get the 18:25 from just outside his front door :)
<arsen> and you're selling the house?! its awesome!
<daftykins> haha yeah but Portsmouth is a hole :>
<daftykins> gotta get the fundage to buy on the island or something now
<arsen> Jackson, Wyoming - daftykins  :)
<daftykins> no idea what i'm up to in life yet
<arsen> who does know :)
<arsen> im stuck in the city.
<daftykins> must be quite exciting living in London
<daftykins> dunno if i could handle it mind, rock mentality 'n' all ;)
 * dogmatic69 got his SSD \o/
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> SSDs ftw
<dogmatic69> what to install?
<dogmatic69> daftykins: its a quick one too :)
<dogmatic69> Crucial M4 64gig
<daftykins> i've a crucial m4 256GB in this laptop i'm on
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> make sure you update the firmware first eh!
<dogmatic69> ?
<daftykins> 0009 had a bug
<dogmatic69> :/
<daftykins> you can do it from flash drive or CD-R
<daftykins> arsen: place got broken into end of Jan too! was empty though naturally :>
<dogmatic69> not updated the firmware on a drive before :D
<arsen> not cool :( we got broken into last year im summer too.
<arsen> lost my bike - which i got replaced yesteday finally! :D
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> i'm really missing cycling whilst here XD
<daftykins> arsen: finally went over to Ireland and met that lovely lady friend o' mine, only 13 years after first talking XD
<arsen> orly - how'd it go?
<daftykins> pretty good - though she's a tough cookie to read so i had to find out after i was back that she was thinking of jumping on me constantly -_-
<daftykins> always the way!
<daftykins> hopefully see 'er again though
<dogmatic69> daftykins: can you extract the iso to usb stick, or must it be CD?
<daftykins> dogmatic69: yeah you can make up a flash drive, use something like unetbootin
<dogmatic69> ah
<daftykins> hmm mars bar o'clock
<daftykins> the mould cleaning was successful :D
<dogmatic69> would it be safe to run 12.x now?
<dogmatic69> omgubuntu says 'Ubuntu 12.04 Beta 1 offers up a stable and usable desktop'
<daftykins> bah, i spoke too soon, mould is still strongly evident
<arsen> daftykins  - check my desk view :D http://bit.ly/GZBBQI
<arsen> taken on my i(fail)Phone a few weeks back :)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> ownies
<daftykins> arsen: you still with the data centre place?
<arsen> nono, not these days.
<arsen> abandoned the hosting world, enough of that.
<arsen> 9-6 these days, techy company doing infrastructure stuffs :)
<daftykins> :o
<directhex> i'm sure the name arsen looks familiar
<arsen> bwahaha :)
<AlanBell> it is curry club night in the pub
<arsen> search for your name on bash.org - directhex  :)
<daubers> AlanBell: Should be
<AlanBell> daubers I am sat in the pub :)
<daubers> AlanBell: I'll come join you in a minute :)
<arsen> ok
 * daubers goes to the pub
<arsen> right - to the batmobile! have a good pub sesh :)
<daftykins> >:D
 * AlanBell has a pint of Titanic
<ali1234> not titanic 3d?
<AlanBell> Â£2.10 isn't bad
<AlanBell> this is a 3d pint
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] PPTP tunnels and if-up.d - http://www.myrant.net/2012/03/29/pptp-tunnels-and-if-up-d/
 * AlanBell watches popey approach on the maruaders map that is Google Latitude
<davmor2> AlanBell: yeah you have to wonder who pouched that idea off who :D
<OmNomDePlume> AlanBell, my old friend.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: so THAT's where they got their inspiration!
<DJones> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/29/munich_linux_savings/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks for the link DJones - Good story.
<ali1234> cool story bro?
<ali1234> is there some tool for sifting through old files?
<ali1234> i've got a folder called "old" and it's just getting bigger and bigger
<ali1234> i don't want to delete it in case there is something i need from it
<ali1234> but i'm too lazy to go through it all
<ali1234> it's now about 200GB
<ali1234> i already deleted all the iso files and anything bigger than 500MB
<jacobw> evenagge
<dogmatic69> o/
<dogmatic69> I am busy trying to install 12.04
<dogmatic69> cant get the stuff to fit on a CD :/
<ali1234> the performance of copying lots of tiny files really is bad :(
<dogmatic69> on 12.x?
<ali1234> on anything
<dogmatic69> SSD \o/
<ali1234> i doubt that would help
<ali1234> maybe a bit
<dogmatic69> ali1234: I normally zip and copy if its masses of files
<ali1234> ...
<ali1234> i'm copying from one partition to another
<Myrtti> I was just informed about the pasty hoarding in UK, I just love you Britons, you crazy wonderful people you
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> fun fact, windows can not fit 12.04b2 on a cd
<dogmatic69> its 3mb short
<dogmatic69> neither can ubuntu apparently
<Azelphur> wasn't it planned for Ubuntu to drop CDs anyway?
<directhex> ubuntu drops mono, and becomes too large to fit on a cd. coincidence?
<bigcalm> Mono is now too large to fit on a cd?
<directhex> bigcalm: well the CD was fine when it still had mono on it!
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: I have read about dvd's not sure what the outcome was
<dogmatic69> the dl is 699mb, but it will not fit on a cd
<dogmatic69> I think cds are 700mb * 1000, not 1024
<Azelphur> \o/
<shauno> don't the betas usually wander a little astray in size?
<dogmatic69> I this a crazy idea... Install clean ubuntu with SSD + 40gig for /home, then later on swap the 40 gig home for a raid?
<stgraber> Ubuntu 12.04 will ship on CD and beta2 will fit on a CD just fine
<dogmatic69> would that be easy to do
<stgraber> only oversize media we have for beta2 are powerpc images
<dogmatic69> stgraber: 3 cd's in the bin says it wont
<dogmatic69> wrote to dvd first time
<dogmatic69> shauno: I was thinking it could be a 'bug' not fitting
<shauno> interesting that you've over by 3MB.  the page for the daily isos says 703 is their target ( http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ )
<shauno> well, not target, but the line at which oversize becomes a bug
<stgraber> the CD standard allows for up to 703MiB on a media and that's what we're using now for 12.04. Some old/buggy drives and burning software don't agree with that definition of a CD though and may have problem burning/reading the media.
<dogmatic69> windows reports it as 716076kb
<dogmatic69> stgraber: I tried burning with ubuntu, braso whatever its called on a relatively new dvd rw
<dogmatic69> hehe, 12.04b2 live boot says the disk is 140TB
<dogmatic69> I wish
<dogmatic69> any input on swapping partition /home drives after installing?
 * popey files bug 968680
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 968680 in unity "progress bars in launcher inconsistent with different sized launcher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968680
 * AlanBell files a bug against ash vale station for being cold and boring
<AlanBell> oh look a train
<bigcalm> Choo choo
<bigcalm> zzz
<popey> âº
<dogmatic69> 12.04b2 up and running
<AlanBell> home at last
<AlanBell> and my new passport is here \o/
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> second place in the pub quiz \o/
<hamitron> I assume there were more than 2 teams, to be pleased? ;)
<daftykins> hamitron: 16 :P
<hamitron> nice :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> to be fair it's the team i'm in that carried me once again
<daftykins> last week we won
<hamitron> I tend to find that
<hamitron> my knowledge on the subjects they quiz people on, is not great
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> precisely
<daftykins> i'm sometimes of use in the picture round, then in the science round
<codeoclock> Hey :) Anyone know where to buy a pre-built Ubuntu system in the UK? It's not that I don't want to install it myself, it's that I want to get out of having to buy a copy of windows with any new pc.
<AlanBell> hi codeoclock
<AlanBell> linux emporium sells some
<codeoclock> AlanBell: Thanks very much, I'll have a look :)
<AlanBell> otherwise your best bet is probably ebuyer, there are some decent blank boxes there
<AlanBell> I got a Zoostorm desktop for my dad, it works fine
<popey> my main desktop is a zoostorm from ebuyer, its fine
<ali1234> i still think zoostorm is a terrible name
<daftykins> there's always custom building :>
<AlanBell> which is more expensive
<daftykins> in my experience custom builds only ever lost out for my clients on the software licensing front, since they were tied to Windows
<AlanBell> best way to get a PC exactly how you want it
<daftykins> but i can't say i've looked
<AlanBell> but if you want just a desktop that just works it is cheaper to get a generic blank base unit
<codeoclock> I'd like to try custom building - it's just compatibility issues. I don't want to spend a load of money, then realize something doesn't work with something else
<codeoclock> blank base units sound cool though
<ali1234> research
<ali1234> custom building can be cheaper, depending on your needs though
<ali1234> if you just want a generic PC it isn't
<AlanBell> I would start with a pre-built base unit with most of the components you want and upgrade selectively the bits you want to improve
<daftykins> compatibility isn't likely these days
<daftykins> er i mean problems with ;D
<ali1234> actually i think there's more ways
<daftykins> sometimes you get RAM that hates working with boards and processors
<ali1234> you have to get the right CPU and the right RAM type
<hamitron> daftykins, "why is this i7 a different shape to my AM3 motherboard?" :/
<ali1234> and the RAM not only has to be the right type, but it also has to be the right voltage too
<daftykins> hamitron: who even considers AMD :P
<hamitron> me
<hamitron> ;/
<daftykins> nah voltage is a non-concern
<ali1234> no.
<AlanBell> and you have to have space in the case to fit the processor and cooling system and cards and cables etc.
<popey> inded, home build is a balls ache
<ali1234> if you put 1.5V RAM into a motherboard running at 1.3V it won't work properly
<ali1234> but it will still identify as the higher clock rate
<hamitron> AlanBell, that is probably the hardest part to research :)
<ali1234> then you get loads of errors
<daftykins> nothing runs at 1.3 with DDR3+
<AlanBell> hamitron: yeah, you can't really, that bit is trial and error, or buying a bigger box than you wanted
<ali1234> so you need to either underclock it or increase voltage in the bios... hope you got a board that can can do either of those things...
<daftykins> most RAM that runs higher doesn't even have their higher speeds within the SPD
<AlanBell> anyhow, night all o/
<popey> indeedy!
<popey> nn
<daftykins> nn o/
 * hamitron looks at his ITX motherboard in an ATX case
<hamitron> is it still worth getting a PC with windows installed, to get a cheaper deal with crapware subsidies?
<ali1234> yes
<daftykins> nn all
<ali1234> plus you get free copy of windows
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> last time I get dell for this reason
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> got*
<ali1234> then you wipe and reinstall from an msdn disc
<ali1234> problem, norton?
<hamitron> norton?
<ali1234> i've been shuffling files around for two days now trying to free up a drive so i can reformat it
<hamitron> sounds familiar :/
<hamitron> I started trying to sort files when the price of hdd went up
<hamitron> and I think the price will be back to where it started, before I get sorted
<hamitron> :/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-30
<Azelphur> ali1234: figure you may know this one, what's the cheapest way for me to get a small screen to display a QR Code and a number?
<Azelphur> that's it's whole life mission, to display QR Codes and numbers.
<ali1234> get an android phone?
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I'm thinking perhaps android displaying a webpage with maybe websockets or ajax or something
<ali1234> the cheapest way is probably a box of crayons
<ali1234> need more information to give a reasonable response
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNpcf9rSBIk
<Azelphur> so it's soul mission in life would be to be small enough to fit on a counter, and do <qr code> <amount>
<ali1234> just use the android app?
<ali1234> also "now wait an hour for 6 confirmations"
<ali1234> i installed the android wallet app a few days ago, it's still downloading the blockchain
<Azelphur> ali1234: huh?
<Azelphur> ali1234: you don't need to wait for confs on small payments
<MooDoo> morning all
<gordonjcp> morning
<DJones> Ugh, I hate xchat when I can't use ssh to connect to my irssi instance
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<daubers> 1Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ha, I love it when people do stuff just because "they can". Ubuntu booting in 6hrs on a 6.5Khz system http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/6-5khz-computer-boots-ubuntu-in-6-hours-20120329/
<TheOpenSourcerer> How the Reading Happy Hour then daubers? Was it Happy?
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: 'twas good
<daubers> Always good to see people again, and some new faces too
<TheOpenSourcerer> Shame I couldn't make it, but my missus was at a rehearsal
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer, Reading that article, amd that was only to a bash/terminal prompt, maybe they're still waiting for it to the unity desktop
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah
<xplora1a> AlanBell: popey thanks for Ubuntu happy hour last night. Sorry I had to go early.
<czajkowski> morning
<popey> xplora1a: was fun wasn't it âº
<bigcalm> Good morning peoples :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: sorry can't talk i'm panic buying things ;)
<bigcalm> Buy choc-ices
<DJones> MooDoo, Your car won't run on pasties
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Friday
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0
<oimon> glad i don't watch/read the general news..no idea what everyone's talking about with pasties and petrol
<oimon> this "don't break precise" mentality is really working as loads of people seem to be running (and therefore testing) the betas for their daily work, rather than boot for an hour and try to break stuff
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Precise breaks all by itself, I don't have to help it.
<MartijnVdS> Well unity does
<oimon> :P more than 11.10?
<popey> pfffft
<oimon> did you just fart popey?
<Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0BfcdPKw8E
<oimon> installing android 4.0.4 on my tablet \o/
<MartijnVdS> 4.0.4?
<oimon> MartijnVdS, yes
<DJones> oimon, Which tablet
<DJones> oimon, Mine is on 4.0.3
<oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/5zflrLQQpKjrICtfOiTBO5 << MartijnVdS DJones
<oimon> hp touchpad
<DJones> Ah, mine's the Asus prime, 4.0.3 is the default manufacturers version
<oimon> never seen one up close in the wild
<DJones> Tis nice
<oimon> can you run ubuntu natively on it ?
<DJones> Its supposed to run, I saw a couple of videos saying it would
<oimon> if so, it would be a future laptop for me
<DJones> bigcalm, http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57405986-1/android-4.0.4-allegedly-bound-for-motorola-xoom-wi-fi/
<popey> ubuntu isn't great on transformers
<popey> yet
<gord> i still think people are talking about robots in disguise when people mention transformers
<bigcalm> DJones: good news yes, but doesn't say when
<bigcalm> gord: hence the legal debate
<DJones> I did wonder how well any tablet would run ubuntu, I would have thought memory limitations would put pressure on it
<gord> tablets have a lorra lorra memory these days
<popey> LORRA LORRA!
<DJones> gord, Still only 1gb ram, the rest is "disk" storage
<gord> lorra lorra blinda data
 * DJones wonders when cilla black became popey (or vice versa)
<popey> NONSENSE NONSENSE NONSENSE!
<popey> etc
<DJones> popey, With your comment about ubuntu on the prime, are you aware if there is any official development for it?
<Myrtti> theme tune of the day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qybUFnY7Y8w
<popey> DJones: define "official"?
<popey> I didn't mention the prime btw, just "transformer"
<DJones> Ah, sorry, I read it as transformer prime
<TheOpenSourcerer> Looking forward to this tomorrow: http://www.saracensatwembley.com/ :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Amazed they have sold 75000 tickets. Going to be a big day. Think my younguns will enjoy the atmosphere...
<DJones> popey, I guess by "official" I was looking at tablet versions sponsored/developed by canonical (not specifically for the prime/asus)
<DJones> Was just looking at this http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/ubuntu-tablet-to-compete-with-android-ios/ so I think that answers that question anyway
<daubers> Does anyone know any VDA type apps for andorid?
<oimon> xorg regularly uses nearly all cpu on this machine :( think i'll try another grpahics card
<daubers> oimon: Or build a new windowing system :p
<popey> DJones: nothing yet
<popey> bug 969023
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 969023 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "(over)filling password field makes logon difficult" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969023
<popey> anyone fancy trying to reproduce that?
<czajkowski> sure
<czajkowski> let me log out
<popey> you need to mash loads of keys into it
<gord> would anyone yell at me if i blocked the spotify indicator in unity?
<popey> its unnecessary now its in the sound menu
<popey> so long as you fix keyboard binding too âº
<czajkowski> popey: confirmed
<czajkowski> gord: if you filt the alt key I'll never both you again
<czajkowski> *bother
<gord> alt key seems fine for me
<AlanBell> orly
<czajkowski> gord: you don't use screen do you :)
<AlanBell> gord steals alt keys from guest VMs
<czajkowski> for people who use screen in irssi it's a woeful pain in the you know whattis
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell. How's the head today?
<AlanBell> fine fine
<TheOpenSourcerer> Jolly Dee.
<popey> czajkowski: works for me
<popey> czajkowski: what keyboard shortcut does it steal?
<czajkowski> in screen in irssi it keeps popping the hud open :.
<czajkowski> :/
<popey> 10:52:27 < popey> czajkowski: what keyboard shortcut does it steal?
<popey> I use Alt+Numbers and ALT+a a lot
<BigRedS> czajkowski: it's less bad in the latest unity
<BigRedS> that was irritating the hell out of me on Sunday
<BigRedS> and then I dist-upgraded and it irritated me less frequently
<czajkowski> popey: alt numbers/letters
<czajkowski> I did dis upgrade this morning
<BigRedS> and arrow keys, it was terminator it was annoying me for
<AlanBell> czajkowski: you can use escape instead of alt as the irssi modifier
<BigRedS> I think I did still end up setting the hud key to some daft combination in the end
<BigRedS> which was a shame, I was sort-of getting in to using it. But not by enough to start breaking other muscle-memory
<AlanBell> it is kind of annoying when trying to test ubuntu in a VM and do screencasts of it etc, when you try to demo the HUD and hit alt to bring it up and the host HUD decides to steal the alt key
<czajkowski> AlanBell: oh didnt know that thanks, but that feels all sorts of wrong to change windows
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I got used to it a while ago, escape is closer to the numbers
<czajkowski> AlanBell: will give it a try and see it's when I go to alt l m b that esc seems very odd
<davmor2> morning all
<AlanBell> popey: bug 969044
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 969044 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) ""try ubuntu" button launches unity 3d when orca is running" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969044
<czajkowski> ok does anyone here use their @ubuntu.com address on a ubuntu mailman lists?
<czajkowski> are you able to send and receive them ?
<popey> i dont
<czajkowski> I am a litle baffled by a question since yesterday
 * czajkowski goes to try and dig further 
<popey> what question?
<czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/192063
<popey> why does he think his address is domino@ubuntu.com ?
<popey> it will be jhosman@ubuntu.com
<bigcalm> dominos.co.uk!
<bigcalm> Damn, not good to crave pizza
<czajkowski> BigRedS: shh I just got papa johns sms offering free pizza
<czajkowski> bigcalm: ^^^
 * bigcalm tickles czajkowski with a tab typo ;)
<czajkowski> autocomplete is gonna land me in hot bother one of these days
<bigcalm> cz<tab> I agree
<czajkowski> popey: aye :/ but he does say it works wiht gmail
<popey> czajkowski: i dont actually understand what he's saying there
<popey> the first problem is he's using the wrong address
<czajkowski> aye am just replying that bit
<czajkowski> and see if he understands
<popey> ubuntu addresses are "launchpad_id@ubuntu.com"
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~domino (who is not a member) would have that address
 * davmor2 now thinks that czajkowski new job is that of a digger :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: gold variety? ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: can see a trip to the naughty step in MooDoo 's future :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: another case of opening up mouth before thinking
<davmor2> MooDoo: whenever I see czajkowski say I'll dig into that, it reminds me of crocodile dundee 2  when leroy brown: I deliver stuff, cd: What kinda stuff, LB: Erasers pens paper, CD: And that heavy s**t, LB: No I'm strickly legit, you dig, CD: Yeap, is that part of the job, LB:WHAT?, CD: Diggin'
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> only problem now is I want to watch Crocodile Dundee :D
<bigcalm> Heh
 * AlanBell has borked broadband :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh dear. And on invoicing day too...
<AlanBell> yeah, tethering with gprs now, not fun :(
<AlanBell> http://www.plus.net/supportpages.html?a=2&?helpheader=servicestatus
<jussi> AlanBell: borked broadband?? is that a new brand :D
<jussi> ?
<n1md4> BigRedS: Do you want to hear a joke?   .... I'm running Ubuntu on my G4 ;D
<n1md4> ... and KDE on the VAIO :>
<kirrus> n1md4: BigRedS just went to the shops
<chambo> Is anyone with experience of LDAP auth and SSL here?
<popey> AlanBell: just tested your bug. on screen keyboard boots to 3d, orca screen reader boots to 2d
<popey> hmm, i may have the wrong iso
<popey> bah, yes, old iso
<chambo> My bad - ldap fixed
<AlanBell> popey: how did you start orca?
<AlanBell> ctrl+s or from the panel menu?
<popey> AlanBell: i started from the boot screen
<popey> AlanBell: but it was an old iso, now trynig from ubuntu 12.04 beta 2
<popey> AlanBell: Man = Keyboard, F5, Screen reader, "try ubuntu"
<AlanBell> oh, don't do that
<AlanBell> new way is sit and wait until you hear the drums, then ctrl+s
<popey> why?
<popey> this works
<AlanBell> if you can see the man, yes
<popey> who defined this "new way" ?
<MartijnVdS> People :)
<AlanBell> http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/oneiric-ocelot/
<AlanBell> it was that way in oneiric
<popey> ok, ctrl+s opens orca screen reader
<popey> now what?
<ali1234> df -h
 * AlanBell wants fixed networking :(
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: did it break? how?
<AlanBell> am I back?
<TheOpenSourcerer> you appear to be
<AlanBell> yay \o/
<n1md4> kirrus: Hey  :)
<kirrus> hey n1md4.
<BigRedS> n1md4: what? There's still a Ubuntu PPC?
<BigRedS> and KDE?
<popey> http://ports.ubuntu.com/dists/precise/ suggests yes
<BigRedS> oh yeah
<BigRedS> Haha, I think I was surprised by that about a year ago, too
<BigRedS> that's not a canonical one is it?
<popey> i dunno what the status is
<dvdrw> Is PPC mac hardware?
<kitsos> hello
<kirrus> dvdrw: it's the old processor arch they used: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC
<kirrus> kitsos: hello
<kitsos> can i ask you something?
<dvdrw> prior to Intel
<popey> !ask | kitsos
<lubotu3> kitsos: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<popey> (so yes)
<kitsos> ok i am sorry.Well i have install apache2 in my computer and now i want to restart it "sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 restart" the command but how can i find the "etc" i dont know where i saved it
<dvdrw> etc is just a directory
<kitsos> yes but what should i put there
<brobostigon> ls /etc/init.d    to get the right name.
<brobostigon> or use service, ie, "sudo service apache2 restart"
<dvdrw> I just use "service apache2 restart"
<ali1234> i just look sizeways at apache and it restarts
<kitsos> :D Thank you guys
<brobostigon> :)
<dvdrw> another success story
<brobostigon> collaborative.
<kirrus> ali1234:really? what do you do to it? We have hundreds of machines running it happily ;)
<ali1234> run it on a server with not enough ram i guess
<ali1234> cd ..
<kirrus> ali1234: use monit to restart it when ram gets low then :)
<ali1234> yeah
<BigRedS> or use lighttpd
<kitsos> Drupal is good?
<popey> depends what you want to use it for
<kitsos> well actually i wanna make a website like dailmotion youtube and give the permission to users to upload videos!
<bigcalm> You could probably achieve that with any CMS plus plugins. Drupal is OTT for a lot of things in my opinion though
<bigcalm> Might be suited to your needs
<dvdrw> like youdoubled?
<kitsos> yes like that but there is something else i dont remember the name :/
<kitsos> well i am begginer on linux i had install apache and all of this things on windows xp but with a friend.
<arsen> drupal is quite involved, but very good.
<kitsos> drupal is a web builder how we call it?
<bigcalm> Drupal is a Content Management System
<oimon> and quite complicated
<kitsos> well can you tell me more Content Management System
<ali1234> drupal seems to be designed around the idea of supporting a consultancy business
<ali1234> it's very enterprisey
<kirrus> short version, it gives you a web-gui to edit sites... wikipedia's got long version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_management_system
<kitsos> there is only drupal?
<TheOpenSourcerer> kitsos: Take a look at Joomla! too. It is somewhat easier to build websites in than Drupal but is still quite flexible due to the huge number of addons available.
<directhex> wordpress!
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.google.com/trends/?q=drupal,+Joomla
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: Yes, Wordpress is pretty cool too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But a bit harder to turn into a "proper" website than Joomla!
<popey> http://www.google.com/trends/?q=drupal,+Joomla,+wordpress&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wordpress doesn;t count because of wordpress.com ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Actually I am surprised WP isn;t much higher than that
<Daviey> Joomla! has a worse security history than nearly any other webap i've had to manage.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's been around longer ;-)
<bigcalm> Just lost an 89 turn game of draw something because I miss-read frat as fart :(
<Daviey> I know Wordpress is used quite heavily as a CMS for some people.
<kitsos> guys can you tell me the most used?
<ali1234> wordpress
<TheOpenSourcerer> That depends on what it is used for.
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer: You mean it's code is based on, back in the day, when writing retardedly insecure code was acceptable ? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wordpress is massive, because it runs Wordpress.com
<TheOpenSourcerer> and runs millions of blogs
<ali1234> at least
<Daviey> and lots of sites, which wouldn't seem to be a blog from the appearance
<kitsos> ok lets say that i have build my website on my localhost ok?how can i "upload" it and set it on?
<ali1234> it's also by far the easiest to use and extend
<kirrus> Daviey: really? Security wise, wordpress gives me far more headaches than joomla
<Daviey> but, written in PHP, which makes babies weep.
<Daviey> kirrus: Are you serious ?
<kirrus> Daviey: deadly. Seriously, it's getting to the point I have to fix a cracked wordpress site once a week.
<ali1234> i recently converted my webpage from drupal to wordpress
<TheOpenSourcerer> kitsos: tar -zvf ~/mysite.tar.gz mysite_dir
<TheOpenSourcerer> mysqldump -u user -p passwd db_name > db.sql
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then send them to your new host.
<TheOpenSourcerer> and reverse the process. Will need to edit a config file to get the new paths right, but that's about it.
<ali1234> setting up drupal took me a couple of weeks. converting everything to wordpress took my half an hour
<kirrus> Daviey: admitedly, usually because people don't update wordpress, and crackers mass-exploit it, but still, there's a reason why there's this saying, and it's popular: "wordpress is an unauthenticated remote shell that, as a useful side feature, also contains a blog" (http://bash.org/?949214)
<TheOpenSourcerer> kitsos: Basically there are lots of *very* good and *very* popular Content Management Systems you can use. But this channel is probably not the best place to research your choice.
<kitsos> TheOpenSourcerer: Thank you very much
<TheOpenSourcerer> no problem.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm not saying to go away, but you can probably find some good comparisons on the Internet. We all have our favourites but they may or may not be the best for your needs.
<kitsos> Yes i understand :P i've already bookmak this channel :) you helped me a lot today thank you all guys! :)
<oimon> hmm machine froze and i lost my work... http://ubuntuone.com/2bX2MNr069BiljgPYKHEwv
<popey> pretty!
<DJones> Looks like coloured ascii art
<Daviey> more like pacman
<davmor2> oimon: that's hex colour blocks for the coded text,  "I told you to save, but no, you knew better" :D
<BigRedS> kirrus: we do have billions more WP installs than Joomla ones
<gord> would make for a pretty good wallpaper that
<TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: "Billions"? really?
<MartijnVdS> Bazillions!
<davmor2> I see your Bazillions! and raise you Gazillions of bazillions of billions of millions of hundreds of thousands of tens of thousands of thousands of hundreds of tens of pounds of pence
<kirrus> BigRedS: aye.. but that might say something about wordpress ;-) .. TBF, someone from ubu-uk community hosting a joomla site on my personal server didn't update it.. with bad consequences for their site
<ali1234> failure to update is on thing but e107 takes security issues to a whole new place
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, to the nearest billion, excluding zero
<BigRedS> :)
<shauno> http://en.wordpress.com/stats/  is still a pretty surprising number
<kirrus> ali1234: e107? (/me googles)
<DJones> This sounds quite a fair and impartial comparison of the iPad and Transformer Prime http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/45050/new-ipad-vs-transformer-prime
<PaulYosef> -_-
<PaulYosef> hi folks
<PaulYosef> dutch and belgian people are racist scum hiding in the dutch ubuntu rooms im just spreading this message because i fought there racism and now im some sort of paria there just to let you know
<ikonia> !ops | PaulYosef fujisan known ubuntu troll: just tried to cause a problem in #ubuntu-offtopic
<lubotu3> PaulYosef fujisan known ubuntu troll: just tried to cause a problem in #ubuntu-offtopic: Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<ikonia> fujisan, I'm not sure why you are doing this
<b1ackcr0w> hello all!
<b1ackcr0w> I filed a bug earlier. was just looking for feedback on whether id filed it correctly ...
<b1ackcr0w> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/969121
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 969121 in Ubuntu "Cannot boot Live CD with Nvidia GTX 550Ti" [Undecided,New]
<popey> hi b1ackcr0w
<b1ackcr0w> yo popester
<b1ackcr0w> how are you?
<popey> fine, fine
<popey> warm
 * b1ackcr0w must get my head around doing a remix with the customizeation tool
<b1ackcr0w> it may be the only way I can install
<popey> not the only way âº
<popey> a way
 * b1ackcr0w listens with interest
<popey> sorry, on a call
<b1ackcr0w> s'ok
<brobostigon> ok, i have found out, i shouldnt backup the world files, for minetest, while the server is running. is there a way, i have it running from the directory i compiled it in, ~/minetest/bin/minetestserver . is there an automated way, of shutting it down, rsync'ing backup, and then firing the server back up again?
<brobostigon> this is on ubuntu 11.10 server.
<awilkins> brobostigon, Does minetest respond to signals, e.g. HUP
<brobostigon> awilkins: no idea.
<daubers> What's minetest?
<awilkins> brobostigon, The idea being that you could run it in a shell script that loops infinitely around running minetest and doing a backup, if it does
<brobostigon> daubers: it is a OSS version of minecraft, in c++.
<brobostigon> awilkins: ah, interesting idea.
<daubers> Oh
<b1ackcr0w> popey: give us a shout when you're ready - I'm minimising for a mo
<czajkowski> anyone who plays games on ubuntu want to help https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/192151
<ali1234> site uses flash and java, therefore it will work about as well on ubuntu as it does anywhere else. which is to say, not very well, but there you go.
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/108132/getting-pogo-games-to-work
<b1ackcr0w> yup - i've just tested it with xubuntu - you may want to download chrome browser when you get ubuntu set up
<b1ackcr0w> (quite easy in the software center
<b1ackcr0w> but yeah - it seems to work fine
<bigcalm> I am confused
<bigcalm> Websites seem to say that ICS is out for UK Xoom users now. But I'm not seeing an update yet
<AlanBell> bigcalm: is that a samsung?
<bigcalm> davmor2: is your Xoom offering an update?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: Motorola
<AlanBell> ok, on the samsungs you have to install some windows sync thing to get it, they are not doing the over the air upgrade yet
<davmor2> bigcalm nope
<bigcalm> AlanBell: Yeah, when I saw the tweets I was miffed for Samsung owners :(
<davmor2> where is the page that says it's available and is it over the air or not
<davmor2> bigcalm: ^
<bigcalm> It's OTA for wifi devices
<bigcalm> http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/google-rolls-out-ics-4-0-4-firmware-update
<bigcalm> Is one such page
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.motorola.com/Support/GB-EN/Consumer-Support/TABLETS/MOTOROLA-XOOM-with-Wi-Fi-GB-EN only list 3.1 and 3.2
<bigcalm> davmor2: when is double steak week?
<MartijnVdS> always?
<gord> steeeeeeeeeeeeakk
<davmor2> bigcalm: 19th pre release party/happy hour
<davmor2> gord: ^
<bigcalm> gord: will you stick around for it?
<gord> hum?
<AlanBell> davmor2: what was the venue again?
<bigcalm> The Moon Under Water
<bigcalm> Weatherspoons
<bigcalm> Wolverhampton
<davmor2> AlanBell: can'[t accuse us of not raising the tone :)
<MartijnVdS> Earth
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: stopped myself from going that far
<gord> hum, don't think so chaps
<davmor2> did everyone see this yet http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/03/23/an-ultradeep-image-thats-full-galaxies/
<bigcalm> gord: Thursday 19th is a workplace day. We're going to go to the gastropub we hold the LUG meets in afterwards for the party/happy hour
<awilkins> Steak!?
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1656/detail/
<bigcalm> They do serve a very very nice steak
<awilkins> Hmm. A little far to go.
<davmor2> gord: how come dude, the pub has the cloud free wifi and everything ;)
<davmor2> awilkins: wuss
<gord> 18th is birthday, already got plans on the thursday sorry :)
<bigcalm> Erm, I'm the event contact? ;)
<bigcalm> Heh, fair enough
<bigcalm> gord: aww, growing old is so much fun!
 * awilkins is reminded to check what MadLab are doing on Saturday since he has to entertain his 7 yr old
<davmor2> gord: that's no excuse I'm sure it isn't ;)
<gordonjcp> I read that as Matlab the first time, I thought "that's not much fun for a 7-year-old..."
<AlanBell> bigcalm: davmor2 wasn't on the list of available contacts :)
<awilkins> She likes Khan Academy though
<MartijnVdS> KHAAAAAN
<awilkins> MadLab is an Arduino course on Saturday, a bit expensive and advanced for her
<davmor2> AlanBell: why would I need contacting :P
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: sixtysymbols, periodicvideos, etc.?
 * awilkins watches phosphorus
<ali1234> cd .cache
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: BZZT
<ali1234> stupid unity
<AlanBell> davmor2: just log in to the loco directory I think
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: the "mini maker show" from makezine?
<OmNomDePlume> MartijnVdS, my Dutch friend.
<MartijnVdS> hmm?
<OmNomDePlume> How goes in Dutchovia?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: the pin in the map isn't actually near the venue :)
<MartijnVdS> all is good in the Nether Lands
<bigcalm> AlanBell: http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/home/pubs/the-moon-under-water-wolverhampton
 * awilkins bookmarks enthusiastically
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah, it does that, I will look up the right location later, you are lucky it isn't in kazakstan
<bigcalm> HAha
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: got enough links? :)
<OmNomDePlume> The Nether Regions
<awilkins> The only bad think about that mini maker show is that she will start to emulate the hideous American accent
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: well yes there's that
<OmNomDePlume> When's the next #ubuntu UK meet?
<bigcalm> davmor2: this is going to be a very long day for me. You get to go home after work before returning for the pub
<awilkins> For some reason Flash is playing videos in blue
<MartijnVdS> it's in its blue period
<bigcalm> awilkins: blue movies?
<awilkins> The colour balance is off
<awilkins> It's like the red channel is supressed or something
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I'm going straight to the pub too,  my plan is we head straight there scoff everyone else turns up at around 19:00 everyone goes home when they want to
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: ask gord about bugs in unity :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: ah, fair enough
<bigcalm> davmor2: any idea who else might turn up?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no idea what so ever
<bigcalm> Once the loco event has been fleshed out, it'll need tweeting and sending to the LUG list
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone in the market for a new smartphone and likes Olympic football: http://www.mobilechoiceuk.com/News/Free+Olympic+tickets+from+Samsung/6727
<davmor2> bigcalm: I already fb g+ and tweeted it why wait the general details are there
<bigcalm> Fluffy muff
<bigcalm> Yay, Hayley be home!
 * davmor2 wonders if a can program Hayley to respond to that with a swift clip around the earhole
<bigcalm> davmor2: eh?
<davmor2> bigcalm: so you say: "Yay, Hayley be home!" and Hayley clips your ear for you :)
<bigcalm> Aww :(
<bigcalm> Why would you want that?
<bigcalm> davmor2: who is croftyboy?
<davmor2> bigcalm: for that bitter sweet feel Yay shes home, ow that hurt
<bigcalm> davmor2: you're odd :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: Mark Croft, lives in Rdditch used to come to Lug meetings when he could but hasn't been for a while
<bigcalm> Fluffy muff
<awilkins> Blue faces problem seems to be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adobe-flashplugin/+bug/967091
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 967091 in adobe-flashplugin (Ubuntu) "Wrong tint with Nvidia after upgrading to 11.2" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<awilkins> red and blue channels seem to be swapped
<davmor2> bigcalm: fluffy really doesn't work there it should be furry like in this picture http://www.saaridesign.com/cart/image.php?type=P&id=52
<awilkins> Love the bug description in the Adobe bug tracker "[Platform_Linux]White people are turned into smurfs on youtube" https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=bug&id=3109467
<bigcalm> davmor2: I used to say furry, but would mix it up with fury. Safer to say fluffy
<bigcalm> awilkins: haha
<awilkins> "Hi swbfan, thanks for your support Adobe Flash and report this issue. But we do not support Linux anymore post 11.2"
<gord> heh spotify really shouldn't make the claim "access to pretty much all the worlds recorded music"
<gord> not even close
<awilkins> Enabling HW accelerated video fixes it. Hooray.
<brobostigon> pub night?
<brobostigon> just a minute, bbc2, :)
<davmor2> gord: do they have Stan Ridgeway Camouflage
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/18/2715572/ice-cream-sandwich-ota-update-motorola-xoom-wifi says rolling out tonight
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> davmor2: "All 10 owners will be very pleased no doubt" - did the Xoom not sell well?
<directhex> bigcalm: no android tablet has, other than kindle fire
<directhex> iirc the #2 tablet is still hp touchpad
<bigcalm> Goodness
<directhex> maybe fire is now #2
<bigcalm> And the UK still hasn't got the Kindle Fire
<directhex> ipad is #1 obviously
<penguin42> bigcalm: Yeh they're nice hardware
<davmor2> bigcalm: initially it did don't know once the rest started rolling out
<bigcalm> Must stop myself from repeatedly checking for updates on the Xoom :S
<kitsos> [Q]Hello everybody.Can i install ap server on ubuntu?
<AlanBell> kitsos: can you be more specific?
<kitsos> Sure.I was making a website with a friend (on windows XP) and i ask him the name of the server (i am begginer) and he told me ap server!on localhost
<AlanBell> hmm
<AlanBell> let me take a wild guess that you mean a LAMP server
<AlanBell> which is Linux, Apache, Mysql and PHP
<AlanBell> !lamp
<lubotu3> LAMP is an acronym for Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP. However, the term is often used for setups using alternative but different software, such as Perl or Python instead of PHP, and Postgres instead of MySQL. For help with setting up LAMP on Ubuntu, see  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP - See also the Server CD installation process (different in Edgy+)
<AlanBell> and the answer is yes, you can
<kitsos> i have install right now on my system (ubuntu 11.10)apache2,php5,mysql.
<ali1234> the beta 2 installer CD has one of those welcome pages about rhythmbox, and the screenshot is banshee
<directhex> :D
<ali1234> it's a really nice screenshot too
<ali1234> showing the album browser, the one that rhythmbox doesn't have
<ali1234> which package is responsible for putting that ubuntu one installer on the launcher on a fresh install?
<ali1234> found it, ubuntuone-installer
<kitsos> well do you guys any good tutorial for javascript?
<kitsos> Do you have **
<reaper4334> kitsos: Your best bet would be to search on Google, and have a look at a few of the results, rather than just one tutorial :)
<kitsos> Thanks for your advise
<zleap> kitsos, i think codeacademy was teaching java
<kitsos> w3schools?
<ali1234> bug 969533
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 969533 in ubuntuone-installer (Ubuntu) "U1 installer hangs forever if apt is locked" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969533
<ali1234> bug 969538
<reaper4334> kitsos: Yeah,  w3schools is pretty popular
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 969538 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Welcome page about rhythmbox has a screenshot of banshee" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969538
<ali1234> w3schools is a good reference but i don't think they have much tutorial type content
<ali1234> maybe i just missed it
 * AlanBell is now authorized to travel to the United States \o/
<AlanBell> I paid my $14 to prove I am a worthy person
<gord> hrm forgot about that... maybe i can extend my previous esta and not have to pay
<popey> ooh, how do you check if you have esta?
<AlanBell> my one lasts to 2014 now
<AlanBell> https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/
<AlanBell> fill in the form on the right if you can
<popey> does it tell you if you already have it?
<popey> "Authorization Approved
<popey> \o/
<dogmatic69> any know what is the default email program in 10.10
<DJones> I think its evolution
<dogmatic69> that is it
<DJones> Pretty sure its been that way for quite a few releases
<ali1234> not any more though
<dogmatic69> ye, thunderbird seems to be the default
<DJones> ali1234: What is it in 12.04
<dogmatic69> ^
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> oneiric too i think
<dogmatic69> DJones: I'm running 12.04 :)
<dogmatic69> <3
<DJones> I had to install thunderbird in oneric
<dogmatic69> anyone know where evolution is hiding the files in 12? not ~/.evolution it seems
<popey> probably ~/.cache/evolution
<ali1234> hey looks like my u1 is working now
<DJones> ali1234: What have you done? Broken it for everybody else?
<ali1234> no i just did a fresh install
<deerhunter> hey guys, is this the place to get some help with 11.10
<popey> yeah, gwan
<DJones> We'll try, if we can't help, you may get pointed to #ubuntu which is the main supprt channel, ask your question anyway
<dogmatic69> popey: thanks. There is some there, but not all of it :/
<deerhunter> ok, im running 11.10, and it wont recognise my intergrated graphics card...
<popey> what makes you say that deerhunter ?
<deerhunter> you tube, facebook games are so laggy, basicly everything that requires graphics card. im a bit of a noob, but if someone can give terminal codes to fix this
<popey> deerhunter: what hardware do you have?
<popey> laptop/desktop? make/model? Do you know what video card it has?
<deerhunter> dell inspiron 1300, unsure of card, is there a way i can find out
<popey> i'll google
<popey> deerhunter: you at the machine right now?
<deerhunter> yeah, i have terminal open
<popey> ok, do sudo lshw -C video | grep product
<AlanBell> I have a Dell Inspiron 1300 (or my son does)
<popey> and let us know what the product is
<deerhunter> what do you mean product
<deerhunter> product: Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller
<deerhunter> sorry im a bit of a noob
 * AlanBell boots up the laptop
<AlanBell> it is an intel card and the drivers are as good as they are going to get
<AlanBell> I stuck 2GB of ram in it and it goes OK
<deerhunter> so i cant fix it,
<deerhunter> mine has 2GB of ram
<AlanBell> I am running 11.10 on this one it is doing unity 3d
<deerhunter> whats that
<AlanBell> the unity desktop has the launcher down the left and the dash that pops out
<AlanBell> there are two variants, 3d and 2d
<AlanBell> if you have a default install of 11.10 you are probably running the same stuff
<deerhunter> i also have that, the laptop runs like a dream apart from the graphics side of things
<AlanBell> maybe try installing chromium-browser that is a bit faster than firefox
<popey> same flash plugin tho
<ali1234> actually it might not be
<popey> so flash games will still be slow
<ali1234> chrome uses it's own
<popey> well, not dramatically better
<popey> same as in "still shit"
<ali1234> oh sure, it won't be better
<deerhunter> lol, i done that, but its the same
<AlanBell> scrolling about in facebook will be a bit quicker in chromium
<popey> true
<ali1234> btw, anyone else got youtube videos all the wrong colours?
<popey> moving a bitmap about
<AlanBell> it runs like a single core 1.5ghz celeron :)
<deerhunter> celeron M
<AlanBell> yup
<popey> AlanBell: just highlighted you on G+
<popey> see his pic
<deerhunter> me to
<deerhunter> so has anyone any ideas
<AlanBell> tab quicklists!
<AlanBell> deerhunter: facebook games are generally not using the accellerated graphics anyhow
<AlanBell> they are just flash and/or javascript I think
<ali1234> flash uses loads of acceleration when it is available
<ali1234> actually, javascript/browser stuff does too these days
<AlanBell> webgl maybe
<ali1234> no, anythng
<deerhunter> is there anything i can do
<AlanBell> and flash uses hardware codecs
<ali1234> and opengl
<deerhunter> where is it
<AlanBell> lets compare speeds deerhunter
<deerhunter> how can i check speeds
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install mesa-utils
<AlanBell> oh, maybe not, that is capped at 60 frames per second now
<AlanBell> um, can anyone think of a simple graphical benchmark we can both run?
<deerhunter> im not that advanced. lol
<AlanBell> or how to run glxgears unsynced from the refresh rate?
<AlanBell> deerhunter: ok, we can do a comparison
<AlanBell> if you do sudo apt-get install mesa-utils
<AlanBell> then run glxgears
<AlanBell> then maximise the window with the gears in for a minute or two then close it
<AlanBell> you should have in your terminal window something like . . .
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/907854
<popey> glxgears is not a benchmark
<AlanBell> yeah, I know
<AlanBell> but if you get 30 frames per second and I get 30 frames per second then the graphics performance is broadly similar
<DJones> AlanBell: I was getting ~ 60 FPS with an onboard intel HD graphics
<AlanBell> yeah, it will max out at your framerate now
<AlanBell> compiz forces it to sync to vblank
<AlanBell> on my laptop I can't get it to budge from 60fps, but on Kierans at fullscreen it drops to 30
<DJones> This is a laptop as well
<DJones> running in a window
<AlanBell> which again probably isn't very benchmarkish because it just means it can manage to meet the deadline every second vblank
<AlanBell> DJones: is it an elderly celeron?
<DJones> AlanBell: i3
<DJones> 12 months old
<AlanBell> same as my main laptop then
<DJones> Maybe this of some use http://happylinuxthoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2007/11/benchmark-your-system-in-ubuntu.html
<DJones> Suggest using nexuiz as a benchmark :)
<AlanBell> I am just doing an update on it and I will give that a go
<AlanBell> I think I might have installed nexuiz on it already
<DJones> I'm doing the same
<AlanBell> it has just installed new intel graphics drivers so it will be interesting to see if that changes the performance (probably won't)
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPr5RBegxpY
<ali1234> AlanBell: the beta 2 release notes specifically says orca doesn't work :/
<ali1234> why does orca speech sound so weeeeird?
<AlanBell> orca does work, unity3d doesn't
<ali1234> "psh booooot-en"
<AlanBell> it is using espeak which is a very lightweight mechanical speech synthesis engine that will do loads of languages
<AlanBell> yeah, it sounds pretty bad
<AlanBell> but it fits on the CD
<ali1234> fair doos
<AlanBell> and supports all the languages
<AlanBell> there are much better synthesisers that speech dispatcher can drive
<ali1234> "dot dot dot"
<AlanBell> this is why I want people to test their applications with orca :)
<AlanBell> it reads a lot of garbage out
<ali1234> you're cheating by knowing what the menus look like and how they are layed out
<AlanBell> yes I am
<AlanBell> it isn't very discoverable
<ali1234> "escape escape"
<AlanBell> yeah, loads of broken stuff in the indicator menus
<ali1234> i think by this point i would have given up and done something more productive
<AlanBell> things that are silent, lables that are wrong
<DJones> Bloody hell, couldn't find a way to quit nexuiz, ended up having to restart to quit the game
<AlanBell> places you can get stuck
<AlanBell> I am going to go through the installer this time
<ali1234> what it says "backspace" i thought it was saying something really rude
<ali1234> "paste" and "create new" menu options ghosted in nautilus, even though i have access to the folder...
<ali1234> and clicking them still works
<ali1234> craaaaaazy
<dogmatic69> I don't know if its because of the clean install, SSD, or 12.04 but things open quick. LibreOffice Writer literally takes a few ms to completely open and be ready to work
<ali1234> bug 969642
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 969642 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Context menu items appear disabled, but still work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969642
<gord> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA3OTY neat-o
<dwatkins> I'm quite surprised at that, gord - it's good, but considering Linux' desktop market share, I didn't expect Steam support for a while.
<gord> valve are a distribution company, they want as many fingers in as many pies as possible
<gord> even small market shares add up to quite some pennies over time
<dwatkins> This is true, and it should also encourage Linux usage, which will increase the market. This will give them an edge over whatever competition they still have (I guess EA).
<dogmatic69> Im not managing to get my mail converted to 12 :/
<dogmatic69> its picking up the folders and mails, just not the accounts
<dogmatic69> been trying with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MigrateEvolutionToNewComputer
<dwatkins> 12, dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> 12.04
<dwatkins> ah I see
<dogmatic69> the structure is different
<dogmatic69> 10.10 had ~/.evolution 12.04 not
<dwatkins> I assume it's not a permissions problem
<dogmatic69> no
<dogmatic69> it seems to just be a difference in structure problem
<dogmatic69> Ive been copying files all over trying various things. best I got was all the correct personal folders and emails. but no accounts.
<dwatkins> If you setup accounts from scratch, where does it store the information?
<dogmatic69> never been able to get the accounts. once it even popped up saying this is the old structure, do you want to update
<dogmatic69> hm, created a dummy account but cant seem to find it
<Azelphur> I'm trying to find something decent to do text to speech with, somehow.
<dogmatic69> only thing I could think of is to make ~/ a git repo, then add a account and go git diff
<Azelphur> I'm not at all fond of the festival voices
<ali1234> Azelphur: just read it out yourself?
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha, that violates the point :P
<Azelphur> but yea, does anyone know something high quality (Web API, Wine?)
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: flite?
<gordonjcp> Wine isn't a speech synth...
<Azelphur> gordonjcp: obviously I meant that there may be windows-only synths that are better and run under wine
<Azelphur> and...you just suggested festival lite...
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: I know there are speech synths for windows, but I've never found them to be in any way intelligibile
<gordonjcp> *intelligible
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> I mean, there are ones on the web with demos and stuff that are just so far ahead compared to festival
<gordonjcp> my ex used to use some Kurzweil thing because she is ridiculously dyslexic
<ali1234> microsoft bob?
<Azelphur> I'm trying to make a talking clock :p
<ali1234> that's easy
<gordonjcp> it cost about six grand and sounded like Stephen Hawking getting the shit kicked out of him in a washing machine full of ducks
<ali1234> just record all the possible times
<Azelphur> ali1234: a talking web 2.0 clock that pulls news feeds ands tuff.
<ali1234> put them in a rom
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> problem solved
<gordonjcp> not even that, just record the numbers that you can put together
<ali1234> yeah, that's what i meant
<gordonjcp> flite can't rap -> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/mp3s/spd-pe.ogg
<Azelphur> you want me to record every single possibility that could ever come up on a news feed?
<Azelphur> got an unlimited supply of monkeys?
<ali1234> that's not a clock then it is?
<Azelphur> gordonjcp: hehe
<ali1234> you could put that job on mechanical turk
<ali1234> "read out this webpage"
<ali1234> then just play the result
<Azelphur> >.<
<Azelphur> terrible suggestions are terrible
<ali1234> have you ever heard of this thing called a radio?
<ali1234> you can tune in to 5 live and get the news... and they tell you the time every 10 minutes as well
<Azelphur> dig a hole of terrible suggestions, dig deeper still
<Azelphur> :p
<gordonjcp> festival can sing -> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/mp3s/robots.mp3
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: done the git thing, does not make much sense. http://bin.cakephp.org/view/2131877590
<Azelphur> If you look at like http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html for example, select UK Peter, that's the kinda quality I'm thinking
<ali1234> vocaloid is pretty good. if you want singing.
<Azelphur> *stab* I don't want singing
<Azelphur> I just want some text to speech that sounds better than my Amiga did in 1996
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: that's about the state of the art, unfortunately
<gordonjcp> unless you want to go to ridiculous lengths
<ali1234> i don't know if this is true, but i read that the amiga voice synth was developed in minnesota
<ali1234> which is why it sounds so robotic
<dogmatic69> I have even installed a sql lite thing and none of the db's have the account in
<ali1234> everyone in minnesota sounds like that
<Azelphur> in fact...watching a video on youtube, the Amiga voice synth is actually quite superior to festival o.O
<Azelphur> so besides terrible suggestions that arn't the answer to the question, anyone got any ideas?
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: a) use festival, b) buy very very expensive software, c) roll your own
<Azelphur> \o/
<shauno> get an amiga and a serial cable :)
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTtZ_CRo6E8
<ali1234> (ignore stupid video)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-31
<ali1234> Azelphur: have you tried espeak?
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, it's a little better but still not great
<Azelphur> the voices seem really really deep on it too for some reason
<ali1234> so change the pitch?
<Azelphur> yea I played around with it a lot, it's just not really approaching the web based ones I've seen
<ali1234> espeak -p 0 -s 80
<ali1234> ^ sarcasm machine
<Azelphur> lol
<gordonjcp> yes wub | flite -f -
<gordonjcp> ^ autodubstep
<ali1234> yes oo | espeak -p 0 -s 80
<ali1234> i don't know what it is but its very annoying
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> flite isn't that bad
<Azelphur> ali1234: reverse engineered the protocol on that web demo and implemented it in python
<Azelphur> \m/
<ali1234> flite -voice rms is quite good actually
 * Azelphur has a nose at that
<Azelphur> this works though, I can shove anything I want at the acapela demo now :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: seems kinda wobbly, but it is a step up :)
<ali1234> they will clearly ban you though
<Azelphur> *shrug* maybe, I'm only doing one small call every day, I'll probably never be noticed.
<Azelphur> it's only for personal use, not like I'm releasing it or anything
<ball> Mornin'
<ball> Hello webpigeo1
<popey> Morning!
<ball> Mornin' popey!
<Myrtti> morning
 * ball waves
<AlanBell> Azelphur: use openMary, it is really good
<AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk:59125/
<AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk:59125/process?INPUT_TYPE=TEXT&OUTPUT_TYPE=AUDIO&INPUT_TEXT=Azelphur%20this%20sounds%20OK%20to%20me%2C%20what%20do%20you%20think%3F&OUTPUT_TEXT=&effect_Volume_selected=&effect_Volume_parameters=amount%3A2.0%3B&effect_Volume_default=Default&effect_Volume_help=Help&effect_TractScaler_selected=&effect_TractScaler_parameters=amount%3A1.5%3B&effect_TractScaler_default=Default&effect_TractScaler_help=Help&effect_F0Scale ...
<AlanBell> ... _selected=&effect_F0Scale_parameters=f0Scale%3A2.0%3B&effect_F0Scale_default=Default&effect_F0Scale_help=Help&effect_F0Add_selected=&effect_F0Add_parameters=f0Add%3A50.0%3B&effect_F0Add_default=Default&effect_F0Add_help=Help&effect_Rate_selected=&effect_Rate_parameters=durScale%3A1.5%3B&effect_Rate_default=Default&effect_Rate_help=Help&effect_Robot_selected=&effect_Robot_parameters=amount%3A100.0%3B&effect_Robot_default=Default&effect_Ro ...
<AlanBell> ... bot_help=Help&effect_Whisper_selected=&effect_Whisper_parameters=amount%3A100.0%3B&effect_Whisper_default=Default&effect_Whisper_help=Help&effect_Stadium_selected=&effect_Stadium_parameters=amount%3A100.0&effect_Stadium_default=Default&effect_Stadium_help=Help&effect_Chorus_selected=&effect_Chorus_parameters=delay1%3A466%3Bamp1%3A0.54%3Bdelay2%3A600%3Bamp2%3A-0.10%3Bdelay3%3A250%3Bamp3%3A0.30&effect_Chorus_default=Default&effect_Chorus_h ...
<AlanBell> ... elp=Help&effect_FIRFilter_selected=&effect_FIRFilter_parameters=type%3A3%3Bfc1%3A500.0%3Bfc2%3A2000.0&effect_FIRFilter_default=Default&effect_FIRFilter_help=Help&effect_JetPilot_selected=&effect_JetPilot_parameters=&effect_JetPilot_default=Default&effect_JetPilot_help=Help&HELP_TEXT=&exampleTexts=&VOICE_SELECTIONS=dfki-obadiah-hsmm%20en_GB%20male%20hmm&AUDIO_OUT=WAVE_FILE&LOCALE=en_GB&VOICE=dfki-obadiah-hsmm&AUDIO=WAVE_FILE
<AlanBell> ooops
<jussi> AlanBell: fail!
<jussi> :D
<AlanBell> http://bit.ly/HvCVg5
<AlanBell> as you can see, it has a restful web interface with lots of parameters you can pass in the URL string :)
<AlanBell> the Obadiah and Prudence voices are quite good
 * ball hides
<Myrtti> oh dear.
<AlanBell> http://mary.opendfki.de/wiki/4.3.1 I should install the latest version
<AlanBell> oh, won't help for web based traffic, just local sockets
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<czajkowski> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<brobostigon> !info gnome-shell precise
<lubotu3> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.4.0-0ubuntu2 (precise), package size 330 kB, installed size 900 kB (Only available for any all)
<brobostigon> !info gnome-shell unstable
<lubotu3> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 3.2.2.1-2 (unstable), package size 348 kB, installed size 933 kB (Only available for any all)
<brobostigon> that answers that question.
<AlanBell> we have a newer gnome-shell than Debian?
<brobostigon> yes.
<AlanBell> oops http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvncFwCkmA
<AlanBell> luckily youtube has a facility to rotate videos
<bigcalm> I thought that was just for trolling
<AlanBell> edit in progress, somewhere out in the cloud a server is working quite hard to flip that video
<bigcalm> Would be nice if that was the actual message that YouTube displayed
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvncFwCkmA right way up now
<czajkowski> want to help someone out and gain some karma . https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/192171
<AlanBell> ooh, that looks like a nasty bug
<AlanBell> that is a "did anyone even think about testing this stuff??" kind of bug
<czajkowski> aye but he logged it as a question to launhcpad
<AlanBell> sure, it is a good question
<AlanBell> so I had a back up now button active
<czajkowski> so removed it from lp and back to ubuntu
<AlanBell> I hit the automatic backup switch and the backup now button greys out
<brobostigon> Files /usr/share/aiccu/conf-templates/aiccu.conf and /etc/aiccu.conf differ
<brobostigon> aptitude safe-upgrade is sticking at that, wont go any further, how do i get it to continue?
<AlanBell> click the switch again and the backup now button stays greyed out and I can't get it back
<gordonjcp> check that the "require password" box hasn't popped up somewhere
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: just spotted that, it is a popunder
<gordonjcp> if I select "Automatic backups" on, it pops that dialogue up but it's hidden
<gordonjcp> although it does shake the backup icon in the mac tray thing
<gordonjcp> that definitely seems to be it
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tottenham Court Road  31st March 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=140
<Myrtti> updating to precise...
 * brobostigon crosses his fingers for Myrtti, hoping for no breakage.
<gord> i upgraded a revo in norway remotely from lucid to oneiric and the only issue i encountered was it removed the nvidia driver, everything else just worked, very impressive
<brobostigon> thats good to hear, as i have been thinking about updating my vps.
<ali1234> you have to be careful when upgrading VPS
<ali1234> they usually use a custom kernel
<ali1234> that can cause lots of problems
<brobostigon> ali1234: in this case, as i am with bitfolk, and they use xen, it uses that kernel.
<popey> i use a stock ubuntu kernel on my vps
<popey> i think
<popey> Linux bishop.popey.com 2.6.32-316-ec2 #31-Ubuntu SMP Wed May 18 14:09:06 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux
<popey> yeah, the ec2 kernel
<ali1234> with common virtualization systems you don't get a choice in the kernel used
<ali1234> ie parallels
<ali1234> my VPS uses 2.6.18-028stab094.3
<brobostigon> Linux ptaylor 2.6.32-38-generic-pae #83-Ubuntu SMP Wed Jan 4 12:11:13 UTC 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
<brobostigon> i am totally wrong, i uses standard kernel.
<ali1234> it used to use 2.6.9 i think
<ali1234> i had to do a reimage to get the kernel upgraded though
<ali1234> anyway, always check this before upgrading a VPS, because if it's really old the upgraded install just won't boot at all
<brobostigon> it will be lts to lts.
<popey> yeah, make sure you have serial console access
<popey> I wouldn't upgrade a public facing vps to 12.04 yet
 * AlanBell has customer stuff running 12.04
<brobostigon> i agree, i am just trying to plan.
 * Daviey has some stuff still running dapper. :o
<ali1234> looking forward to 12.04.1
<ali1234> multiarch will really save me a lot of trouble
<hamitron> 12.04 is out?
<ali1234> no :(
<ali1234> but i'm not going to put 12.04 on a production system
 * czajkowski pokes Daviey 
<hamitron> I'm thinking of putting it on my gaming rig
<hamitron> so only issue if it went wrong, would be a bad tempered hamitron ;)
<AlanBell> go for it
<AlanBell> do the upgrade and file bugs if things are not right
<hamitron> only when released
<AlanBell> bugs are harder to fix after release
<AlanBell> especially if they are things that get burned to the CDs
<hamitron> only got 128kbit internet atm
<hamitron> (throttled)
<Myrtti> The upgrade has completed but there were errors during the upgrade
<Myrtti> process.
<Myrtti> :-|
<Myrtti> right, Unity didn't start :-|
<popey> Myrtti: unity --reset
<popey> also, just make sure there's no outstanding packages needing configuring with a dpkg --configure -a
<Myrtti> all the stuff from the top bar is gone
<Myrtti> starting to regret upgrading :-|
<ali1234> stuff?
<Myrtti> top bar has only the clock
<Myrtti> and now my cursor got stuck
<Myrtti> empathy doesn't work...
<gord> Myrtti, sounds like you didn't get a full upgrade, try doing a dist-upgrade
<gord> or maybe install ubuntu-desktop
<kvarley> What software could I use to show a page to the users when they try to make a www request on my wifi network? In hotels they ask you to pay or get a passcode or something. I'm looking to display a php page stating terms of connecting.
<Myrtti> oh dear lord
<Myrtti> 1015 upgraded, 245 newly installed, 13 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<shauno> kvarley, I don't have a shrink-wrapped answer for you, but "captive portal" is your google-fu, if it helps nudge you in the right direction
<kvarley> shauno: Thanks so much! I was searching for what I wanted and getting nothing but people patronisingly telling me how to connect to an unsecured wifi network -_-
<Myrtti> I just realised that I usually come with my Ubuntu problems here instead of #ubuntu
<shauno> I tend to do the same.  I have a "woah the floor's spinning" issue with the shear volume in #ubuntu
<mgdm> On that note - anyone know how to make the screensaver secure in Oneiric, so that the menu bar isn't visible?
<Myrtti> shauno: I don't have the volume problem - it's just that I don't usually get any answers from there
<Azelphur> AlanBell: holy crap that was a long link haha
<Azelphur> AlanBell: tis ok, I'll implement it if I ever get messed about with my solution :P
<AlanBell> I was trying to work out how much effort it would be to add a new voice
<Azelphur> did you see what I did with it in the end?
<AlanBell> no
<Azelphur> AlanBell: I found one of those high quality demos online, and reverse engineered the protocol the flash app uses to talk to the server :P
<AlanBell> how does openmary compare?
<Azelphur> not /great/
<Azelphur> http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html check out UK Peter
<AlanBell> ok will do later, I am on a slow gprs connection now
<AlanBell> how does their protocol work?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: POST DATA receive partially busted URL to an MP3 stream
<Azelphur> your obviously not meant to abuse their web demo though, so personal use only really
<Azelphur> but that's fine for me \o/
<AlanBell> ok
<Azelphur> I can give you the python if you want it, though
<AlanBell> that would be great
<AlanBell> turn it into a speech dispatcher plugin and it will work with Orca
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> AlanBell: and then get caught and they block it and then I have no text to speech :(
<Azelphur> one sec, I'll clean up the code a bit for some reason I accidentally overwrote my version that streamed it o.O
<Myrtti> aw man, this reminds me that once I get this done, I still need to hunt for the Java somewhere
<Azelphur> AlanBell: http://pastebin.com/jNg31ax5 couldn't get on_message to call for some reason but you get the idea.
<directhex> java /o\
<Azelphur> expires in an hour, so save it
<Azelphur> time for me to go cook dinner \o/
<Myrtti> directhex: I know...
<Myrtti> stupid banking solutions...
<gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rznYifPHxDg ha ;) google maps is everywhere
<dvdrw> Looks like an April fool
<gord> well, yes obviously ;P
<Azelphur> hahaha
<Azelphur> the quest butotn actually exists
<Azelphur> I'm using it right now
<Azelphur> London is a little castle, hahahaha
<Azelphur> anyway, hijacking channel to talk about ISAs. does anyone have one, any tips, etc? :P
<Azelphur> I hate to say it but I think santander has the best rate, 6.1% for first year
<directhex> i think the google maps thing is a promotion for a new dragon quest game
<Myrtti> well they need to offer a good interest since they are lending the money to stupid people overspending on weddings and useless tat
<Myrtti> (Santander advertises in a Finnish wedding magazine for allowing people to have their dream wedding)
<Azelphur> haha
<kitsos> Hello everybody.I just connected a logitech webcamera on my pc and i dont see that is active what can i do?
<kvarley> Is it possible to use iptables to redirect any new mac addresses to a different location?
<Myrtti> oh good grief how difficult it is to find from ccsm how many virtual desktops I want and in what formation
<Myrtti> ha, found it
<penguin42> kvarley: I think you need something like ebtables for that
<kvarley> penguin42: Ok, I'll check it out, thanks.
<AlanBell> Azelphur: those Acapela voices are pretty decent
<Azelphur> AlanBell: they are indeed
<AlanBell> I think OpenMary is quite close though
<Azelphur> yea, it's closer than anything else I've seen
<AlanBell> http://mary.dfki.de:59125/ try some of the unit selection voices too
<Azelphur> AlanBell: spike is very good
<Myrtti> dumdidumdidududum...
<AlanBell> Azelphur: I am very tempted to make an Alan voice
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> is it that easy to make a voice?
<penguin42> AlanBell: But will your chickens respond to it?
<AlanBell> http://mary.opendfki.de/wiki/VoiceImportToolsTutorial
<AlanBell> I am trying to find out how much recording you need to do
<AlanBell> it would appear that the process is fairly automatic
<AlanBell> just read out and record this lot http://paste.ubuntu.com/909176/
<AlanBell> or any other text but apparently that is a decent script
<AlanBell> create lots of samples along with the transcripts of them and it sorts it out
<shauno> I didn't realise it'd be that straightforward.  I wonder if you could find sufficient corpus in a podcast to digitize people unknowingly
<popey> Evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o popeyx0r
<Karti> Hi all, just looking at creating an in house nas using an old pc. Only linux and android to use it. Woul dNFS be the best solution?
 * penguin42 isn't sure what Android can use
<Karti> android tab is using shared drives at the moment so I hope there should be no issues
<dwatkins> some protocols are faster than others if you're serving media - samba is rather slow, for example
<Guest84782> can someone please tell me the channel to report 12.04 beta 2 bugs
<shaneo1> where can I report a bug please
<shaneo1> for ubuntu 12.04
<brobostigon> shaneo1: #ubuntu+1
<shaneo1> ok thanks :)
<popey> shaneo1: want to describe it?
<brobostigon> shaneo1: also launchpad, ofcourse, :
<brobostigon> :)
<shaneo1> when I plug in headphones the audio is not muted on my speakers
<shaneo1> it worked in 11.10
<popey> shaneo1: what machine?
<shaneo1> i did raise a bug for alpha 2, beta 1 but still it remains beta 2
<shaneo1> acer aspire 8930 laptop
<popey> ah, if there's already a bug reported then you dont need to file a new one
<popey> what's the bug number?
<shaneo1> Its here I raised it. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/941219
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 941219 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "Speaker Sound does not disable when Headphones are connected. Ubuntu 12.04 Beta 2" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<shaneo1> but im a musician and this is extremely annoying.
<shaneo1> thats the one
<shaneo1> I guess I will just have to wait
 * popey clicks
<shaneo1> im not sure the jack detect is a part of the alsa driver, im still learning linux
<shaneo1> i'll pop along to ubuntu+1 and see what the devs have to say
<shaneo1> thanks for your help peeps
<popey> shaneo1: I dont think a plethora of devs hang out in +1
<shaneo1> no, I guess I will have to be patient
<shaneo1> though it is annoying that Ubuntu can be good in one release and then the next broken
<shaneo1> Been using ubuntu for the past 2 years, dropped MS and introduced it in my company.
<AlanBell> shaneo1: did jack detection on that laptop work in older versions?
<shaneo1> sure did
<shaneo1> 11.10 being the last time
<shaneo1> Think it has something to do with alsa-hda-dkms
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> top of the evening to you czajkowski :)
<mattt> evening all
<czajkowski> am having fun :D https://twitter.com/#!/czajkowski/status/186200303543123968/photo/1
<AlanBell> cool!
<AlanBell> what does the sky remote do in all that?
<czajkowski> keeps the tv on watching old movies
<czajkowski> most important
<AlanBell> ah right, fair enough :)
<AlanBell> what are you making?
<Azelphur> occams razor :P
<czajkowski> Digital AGC
<mattt> what is that mess
<czajkowski> on top of a railway censor that measures the height and stagger of over head cables
<mattt> AlanBell: has the reading meetup happened yet ?
<gordonjcp> czajkowski: nice
<czajkowski> aye and I have a arduino set here so we can tuck into that during the weeks that I'm here
<mgdm> nice work
<gord> czajkowski, how much to arduinos set you back? i know the unit is like Â£50 or so, but i'm thinking for all the equipment and extras
<mgdm> I need to get some breadboards and stuff to use with my arduino + NXP stuff + et
<mgdm> c
<czajkowski> gord: started kit
<mattt> you can get them on ebay for cheap (starter kit)
<mattt> straight for hong kong
<mgdm> gord: 50 quid? only if you get one with a pile of extras, surely - clones are much cheaper
<mattt> *from
<czajkowski> gord: http://www.earthshineelectronics.com/10-arduino-starter-kit.html
<gord> hummmm, neat
<gord> i have the feeling that if i got one i might make it flash an led, declare myself an electical engineer and put it in the cupboard of ignored computer parts though
<mattt> gord: same :(
<czajkowski> depends
<czajkowski> can do lotta funky stuff
<czajkowski> plus dad is an electonics enginner
<czajkowski> engineer
<czajkowski> so somthing new to do together
<mattt> haha
<mattt> brilliant
<gord> yeah, they look like tonnes of fun
<mattt> anyone go to wembley today ?
<AlanBell> eww, hud on the screen that doesn't have the launcher looks silly :(
<AlanBell> mattt: yes, it was thursday
<mattt> :(  did many show?
<AlanBell> a dozen or so
<mattt> wow, that's quite good
<mattt> AlanBell: do you ever go to the rdggeek thing ?
<AlanBell> no, I am not particularly near to Reading
<popey> hmmm
<popey> super+tab
<popey> then super to get out of it
<popey> nothing has focus
<popey> AlanBell: do you get that ^^ ?
<gord> i get that
<popey> also
<popey> (I will file that one in a mo)
<popey> alt+f1, tap it a few times
<popey> when you press the second time it goes back to the app you had open
<popey> but the menu bar shows something for a split second before the right title
<popey> cant quite make out what it is
<popey> might be ubuntu desktop
<popey> damnit, super+tab does something completely different as another user
<popey> gord: any idea what super+tab is supposed to do?
<popey> ah, popup explains it
<popey> gord: bug 970420 if you could confirm pls âº
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 970420 in unity "Super+Tab, super, loses focus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/970420
<gord> done done
<popey> ta
<popey> while you're here âº
<popey> open a terminal, press and hold F1
<popey> er
<popey> press and hold alt+F1
<popey> should toggle the bfb on and off
<popey> do you see "crap" in the terminal?
<popey> where 'crap' is ;3P over and over
<gord> ;3P
<gord> yeah
<popey> \o/
<gord> its a compiz thing
<gord> we had the same jibberish with hud alt
<popey> bug 970425
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 970425 in unity "Keypresses not always captured, leak to apps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/970425
<popey> pls to be confirming
<popey> and/or re-assigning :D
<popey> found another too
<czajkowski> hmm I seem to have all my applications numbered
<czajkowski> and it wont feck off
<popey> tab super
<popey> i filed that the other day
<czajkowski> hmm
<popey> bug 970434
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 970434 in unity "menu bar flickers app name and window title when ALT+F1'ing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/970434
<Daviey> popey: did you reassign Alt?  I found it a PITA with irssi
<popey> no
<popey> it doesnt affect me with irssi
<popey> EVERY. OTHER. APP. Yes.
<popey> :D
<popey> apparently more than 1M people have ordered Raspberry Pi â¨
<popey> Imagine if all those ran Ubuntu â¹
<hamitron> I thought ubuntu didn't support the cpu?
<penguin42> popey: Ordered: 1M  Delivered: About 10
<hamitron> well, yeh, lack of cpu is more of an issue ;)
<penguin42> and RAM
<hamitron> it has plenty of RAM
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> twice that of my VPS
<penguin42> what type of VPS is it?
<hamitron> when can get them easier, I may even get some for upgrades
<hamitron> erm
<hamitron> buyvm provides it
<hamitron> openvz is it?
<hamitron> (I forget the letters after "open")
<penguin42> think so, that's running a single kernel though shared between all the guests isn't it
<hamitron> yep
<popey> hamitron: that was kinda the point of the comment
<popey> we _could_ support the CPU
<hamitron> yeh, although ubuntu is targeting different stuff really
<hamitron> imo
<hamitron> it is more high end state of the art stuff
<hamitron> :)
<popey> or "stuff you can actually buy in a shop and not wait for some people to figure out they need CE mark until long after taking credit card details"
<hamitron> haha
<popey> easy to say as an onlooker of course
<popey> and yes, I have one on order
<hamitron> I haven't yet
<hamitron> I never rush and jump into things ;)
<popey> no wai!
<hamitron> gonna try 12.04 quickly though, rather than wait 6 months and be a release behind ;D
<directhex> from what i hear, debian-for-pi was largely killed by douchebags being douchey and claiming to speak for the project - enough to scare off the pi people
<penguin42> hmm - it would just need a kernel build for it wouldnt it
<penguin42> debian user space should run on the pi unchanged
<penguin42> (armel not armhf)
<hamitron> I thought there was an image
<hamitron> assumed it has a kernel and everything needed
<popey> there is a debian image, and a fedora one
<popey> and iirc an arch one
<hamitron> I only downloaded the first
<directhex> popey: only one of those is supported long term
<directhex> penguin42: a kernel and an installer. but more than that, it requires the pi people not to feel like they're unwanted by hostile devs
<penguin42> popey: This should run Ubuntu (with a kernel tweek) - and I'm not betting on which will arrive first: http://www.rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/
<penguin42> directhex: It shouldn't actually need an installer; a prebuilt image would work for that type of system
<directhex> penguin42: you're still actively ignoring the main issue
<penguin42> directhex: which is?
<directhex> that the pi people were told to get knotted by members of the debian arm community, so they decided "well sod that"
<popey> they were also told not to use the ubuntu name by ubuntu community â¹
<penguin42> directhex: That is unfortunate, and I don't know the circumstances behind it; but frankly I don't think the Pi guys exactly handled it well either
<directhex> well, yes, they believed that when someone says they speak for debian, that they really do
<popey> ditto ubuntu
<directhex> popey: plus further detail i won't share
<penguin42> directhex: They were saying for months that it would run Ubuntu without ever actually checking whether it could, the chip they chose is not a great choice (old ARM core, video still requires closed binaries although that might get fixed etc) and they've completely ballsed up the release of the hardware
<popey> it did run ubuntu
<popey> just very old ubuntu
<penguin42> popey: Exactly
<directhex> penguin42: there will never be "free" drivers for the gpu. the gpu isn't an add-on. it's the other way round. the gpu is the mian chip, the cpu is an afterthought
<penguin42> directhex: It's being reverse engineered at the moment
<gord> eh the drivers for the gpu are closed? sounds like pulsebo all over again
<penguin42> gord: It's normal on ARM, there are very few open ones
<popey> ah good old powervr â¹
<penguin42> there is PowerVR, Mali and another I forgot; the Mali is being reverse engineered by the Lima project
<penguin42> Mali is the one in the chip on the Pi
<gord> don't really care if its normal or not, i learnt my lesson
<directhex> gord, super-closed.
<directhex> penguin42: super wrong.
<penguin42> directhex: Please correct me
<directhex> penguin42: broadcom videocore iv.
<directhex> mali is super open by comparison
<penguin42> directhex: Oh great, sorry, I'd seen it said that they had a Mali on the Pi - oh that's even worse then
<popey> mali is in the spark/vivaldi
<penguin42> directhex: In that case, I'll add an extra brick to my above statement about Pi making a bad choice
<directhex> penguin42: it's a high-end DSP running expresslogic threadx, and runs linux on its ARM co-processor via a hypervisor
<directhex> penguin42: the GPU is in charge of booting, and won't even boot kernels that aren't signed with a special binary-only tool
<penguin42> directhex: And how do Pi work around that?
<popey> they ship the binary
<penguin42> directhex: Do they have a signed boot loader?
<directhex> basically
<penguin42> popey: Hmm, so from a debian point of view there is no free way of them building a release?
<directhex> the pi is a broadcom side project to sell a lot of their set-top-box chips
<directhex> the cpu (arm core) is pretty much the same one from the iphone 1 :p
<penguin42> directhex: I think a few of the ARMs have a hypervisor layer, and then a boot loader from the vendor (I think the OMAPs do that), but in there case the boot loader is a very light shim at the hypervisor is only used for a few minor things
<directhex> penguin42: in terms of open-friendly chip vendors, broadcom is at the bottom of the pile. hell, they don't even publish datasheets unless you pay
<penguin42> directhex: Very few of the ARM vendors do (TI Omap being an exception I think)
<directhex> penguin42: TI is one of the best, sadly
<penguin42> directhex: The Allwinner A10 in that rhombtech (link above) seems to have source around for the kernels to download, and be very hackable, but I don't think they officially released datasheets (there is a chinese one floating about marked confidential)
<penguin42> directhex: sadly why?
<directhex> penguin42: best of a bad lot
<penguin42> directhex: I'm reasonably happy to pat them on the back for that
<directhex> penguin42: assume that a chinese vendor will not follow the GPL.
<penguin42> directhex: They got forced to at some point, and so the source for the A10 kernel is released, although it's not clean it has a few non-GPL bits in it that people are in the process of forcably removing
<penguin42> directhex: The rhombtech guys are trying to build the board with fully open code (and the designs are open as well)
<directhex> those are the same people behind the lulzy kde tablet?
<penguin42> no
<penguin42> directhex: it was started by lkcl and Phil Hands - so it really should stay open
<directhex> lkclol
<directhex> for the love of... i think my lumia's broken
 * popey tickles gord with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2IAYl1UiaU
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-01
<ali1234> hang on a minute. i recognise that cat.
<ali1234> stolen video is stolen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fouFPPFVQw
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ_wXOFQV3M \o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Help Needed: Packaging Ubuntu Accomplishments - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/01/help-needed-packaging-ubuntu-accomplishments/
<dogmatic69> I am running 12.04b2 and after a few hours running I get random white blocks around the screen. normally covering the entire screen
<dogmatic69> anyone seen this / know what it is?
<dwatkins> Sounds like your graphics card might be getting hot, dogmatic69.
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: it hangs around 47'C
<dogmatic69> I have 15+ fans in my PC, doubt it is a problem
<dogmatic69> it has happened before within 10 minutes of starting
<dogmatic69> its almost like a window that does nothing, no buttons etc
<dwatkins> Does it happen if you switch off OpenGL / 3D?
<dwatkins> that sounds like an OpenGL artifact, something that's drawn and never taken away.
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> exactly
<dogmatic69> what would turning that off do?
<dogmatic69> what will stop working?
<dwatkins> whatever uses opengl, such as cairo
<dogmatic69> I am running something like a 9800GT iirc
<dwatkins> I assume you have the latest driver
<dogmatic69> I have what ever was offered when installing
<dogmatic69> 295.20
<dogmatic69> x-server 1.11.3
<dogmatic69> its the closed source drivers, not std linux ones
<dwatkins> try updating them?
<czajkowski> aloha
<meet> is there any way to get the .deb files of packages installed through software center? i want to install them on an offline system.
<daubers> can someone confirm this for me please https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/970666
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 970666 in unity "libre office small icons look terrible" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> daubers: not sure what you mean ?
<czajkowski> mine look the same
<czajkowski> they look normal
<czajkowski> is this along the dasher?
<daubers> czajkowski: :(
<daubers> it's on the sidebar thing
<daubers> I've made the icons smaller and now they look rubbish
<czajkowski> daubers: http://twitpic.com/944kaj/full
<czajkowski> side by side
<daubers> yeah, the writer image is all broken up on my one
<daubers> looks as if it's a resized bitmap
<daubers> i.e. blocky and icky
<czajkowski> the green one just looks like an ugly image tbh
<czajkowski> large or small
<MartijnVdS> http://p.twimg.com/ApYGHjFCMAAwb0l.jpg
<Myrtti> I honestly almost wrote to my MEP on the outrage of Xubuntu rebasing to Debian
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ...
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: because that's something MEPs are involved in
<MartijnVdS> http://techlaze.com/2012/03/richard-stallman-to-launch-his-own-fashion-line/
<MartijnVdS> also, https://bitbucket.org/spooning/
<Myrtti> ie. I was in bed reading Planet Ubuntu and saw knome write about the rebase, and I was getting up from the bed to write a comment of outrage on his blog
<Myrtti> when it hit me that it's April 1st
<MartijnVdS> :)
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
<popey> mng
<popey> daubers: looks related to the bug i filed last night
<popey> bug 968702
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 968702 in unity "Launcher doesn't scale nicely, goes blurry" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968702
<AlanBell> too many things have bitmap icons still
 * czajkowski has a day of emailing lists ahead of her 
<czajkowski> god lord we have tons of lists!
<AlanBell> bug #970713
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 970713 in unity "HUD looks daft when called on a screen without the launcher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/970713
<meet> will ubuntu 10..10 work better than winxp on 512 mb ram
<AlanBell> meet: if you can stuff more ram in then you will enjoy it more. Ram is cheap.
<meet> but still. if i dont. than what do u predict?
<MartijnVdS> it will work, but it will have to swap a lot
<MartijnVdS> which will make it slowe
<MartijnVdS> r
<MartijnVdS> and, as AlanBell said: you might not enjoy it as much
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/192300  if someone wants to grow their karma, new person needs some help
<MartijnVdS> Nvidia? Not burning my hands on that.
<AlanBell> yay, orca is now working well enough for me to file lots of bugs against Ubuntu
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> fun http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/eyewear
<Daviey> popey: I didn't know project Euphemia, HUD projection in glasses was public yet?
<spych102> How do i get tab completion in PuTTy?
<daubers> popey: it does
<spych102> Do I need to install bash?
<popey> never used putty on linux, only on windows
<spych102> it's my first time, i'm using to control my humax
<Daviey> spych102: Don't expect bash completion to work on embedded devices.
<spych102> i'll give it a go though' the humax custom firmware so far seems to be the most amazing thing...
<popey> yeah, i have a friend who raves about those devices
<spych102> it was already pretty good but the webif front end and remote scheduling is so useful.
<spych102> to switch shell i tried "chsh", is there anything else i could try?
<spych102> because that didn't work
<penguin42> how do you mean it didn't work? and what were you trying to change to?
<spych102> i was trying to change from sh to bash on a telnet connection to my humax
<penguin42> spych102: You mean the shell running on the humax?
<mgdm> spych102: just type 'bash', if it's there, it'll work
<spych102> ok thanks
<spych102> penguin42, yes the shell running on the humax
<spych102> it works, i have tab completion on my humax! thanks mgdm
<penguin42> spych102: chsh is for changing the login shell
<mgdm> spych102: if you used chsh you'll get bash if you log out and in again, probably - if not, just type it :)
<spych102> ahhh
<spych102> it looks like it's not installed anyway
<spych102> i can't think for a use for chsh for a pvr anyway...
<penguin42> indeed
<spych102> just worked out how to use it on my laptop though
<spych102> thanks for the info
<spych102> embedded devices are cool, now i want to Telnet into all my home appliances...
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> I have several routers I can do that with
<mgdm> nothing especially more interesting than that - I know my TV runs Linux, but I'm not in a hurry to brick it
<spych102> if only i could turn the kettle on so that it was boiled by the time i got to the kitchen
<mgdm> the only issue with that is filling it :)
<spych102> :-D
<mgdm> ideally you'd want some kind of mains-fed, tea-making robot
<mgdm> or maybe one with a big tank of water
<spych102> robots are the future
<penguin42> spych102: You can get taps which emit boiling water on demand within a few seconds
<spych102> penguin42, i think my espresso machine does that... could be a more sensible solution
<penguin42> spych102: Then when it detects your typing slowing down it gives you 2 shots of espresso via a pipe - what could go wrong?
<spych102> hehe
<zleap> hello
<mgdm> afternoon
<zleap> how are you
<zleap> not long to go
<MartijnVdS> and then?
<mgdm> not long to go until...?
<mgdm> zleap, man, don't leave us in suspense!
<bigcalm> Afternoon peeps
<zleap> mgdm, i was referinjg to 12.04 release
<zleap> sorry
<mgdm> ah :) I'd not been paying attention
<mgdm> I might do a clean install
<mgdm> this was a Karmic box originally, if I remember right
<mgdm> various bits have since stopped working (notably the printers)
<bigcalm> I fell for xubuntu being based on debian for 12.10
<sagaci> tut tut
<bigcalm> I know
<bigcalm> 5mins of sillyness
<Myrtti> bigcalm: so did I
<Myrtti> half a minute of outrage and higher blood pressure
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> I was like "but they would have to stop using the 'ubuntu' name if they did that"
<bigcalm> Which is when it dawned on me :)
<bigcalm> Myrtti: did you re-tweet it during or after being fooled?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: after
<bigcalm> Aha, then you fooled me :P
<OmNomDeBonBon> Papsmear Cisse is on a hat-trick. You could've got 40/1 on it before the match started.
<DJones> OmNomDeBonBon: What were the odds on the goalkeeper being sent off
<OmNomDePlume> Hahaha, I knew Reina would flip out as soon as I saw him get tripped.
<OmNomDePlume> He's got a temper, that bald idiot.
<DJones> I'm sitting here with 2 happy & smiling NUFC fans
<OmNomDePlume> I'm texting my LFC fan, this is a good day.
<OmNomDePlume> Caroll dives and plays crap, Suarez misses tons of chances, Reina sent off.
<DJones> Having driven up to newcastle from the liverpool area before, its a long drive for the LFC fans coming home
<OmNomDePlume> Even longer if you take into account the time it takes to hotwire a car these days.
<DJones> :)
<OmNomDePlume> Why aren't Newcastle peppering Luis Enrique in goal?
<OmNomDePlume> Goal difference is going to matter.
<bittin> lol: http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20120402
<ali1234> lazy april fools article is lazy
<OmNomDePlume> Oh, lol.
<OmNomDePlume> I was wondering how they could alienate existing users any more than they did in Gnome 3.
<OmNomDePlume> "Pepe Reina has played 183 consecutive league games for Liverpool but he will miss their next three matches in all competitions through suspension. That includes their FA Cup semi-final against Everton." Muahahaha!
<mattt> OmNomDePlume: that was weak, i can't stand football for reasons like this
<OmNomDePlume> mattt, Perch should've been sent off for trying to get someone sent off. Reina deserved a read for doing that stupid headbutt thing.
<OmNomDePlume> *red
<OmNomDePlume> And, FWIW, Reina does that kind of thing all the time but usually gets away with it. He should've been red carded against Man Utd, for instance.
<mattt> OmNomDePlume: i don't watch football that often, but when i see stuff like that i just can't help shaking my head
<mattt> OmNomDePlume: it was stupid, but the song and dance the newcastle player did was kinda embarrassing
<OmNomDePlume> Well, to be fair, golden boy Steven Gerrard dives all the time.
<OmNomDePlume> mattt, if FIFA introduced retrospective punishments for diving (and, say, doubling punishments where they got someone else carded or sent off) the Perch thing would stop overnight.
<OmNomDePlume> Great goal by Van der Vaart. You watching on Sky Sports, mattt?
<mattt> yep :P
<mattt> OmNomDePlume: honestly, why not do what they do in rugby and go to video replay, i know it breaks up the flow of the game a bit, but it breaks it up less than an incorrectly awarded red card does
<OmNomDeBonBon> mattt, all they need is video replays for natural breaks in play. Eg. a player goes down injured, the video assistant sees someone elbows him, the on-field ref gives a red card after viewing the evidence.
<OmNomDeBonBon> And technology for decisions which should be instant, eg. offsides and goal line disputes.
<mattt> agreed
<OmNomDeBonBon> No time lost, no break of play. And much, much more reliable.
<OmNomDeBonBon> lol one of the Swansea players is named Angel Rangel.
<mattt> :P
<mattt> OmNomDeBonBon: where's he from ?
<OmNomDeBonBon> He sounds Colombian. Lemme check...
<OmNomDeBonBon> Huh, Spanish.
<penguin42> hmm, todays Geohash is a bit tricky to get to: http://carabiner.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html
<mattt> OmNomDeBonBon: my guess was mexican :)
<zleap> brb just testing 12,04 beta
<penguin42> oh I like: http://www.google.com/js/reallyadvanced.html
<zleap> how do i change my uibuntu work group name from
<zleap> its currently workgroup need it to match other comptuers on the network
<zleap> http://ubuntumanual.org/posts/143/how-to-change-computer-name-in-ubuntu
<zleap> does not help with unity
<popey> i dont understand the question
<popey> work groups are a windows thing
<popey> and thus a samba thing
<zleap> so how do i do that inubuntu
<zleap> ok change hostname
<zleap> the above page does not help as there is no system menu
<zleap> its not knowing the equivelent terminiolgy
<zleap> terminology
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/87665/change-hostname-in-ubuntu-without-restart
<zleap> ok thanks
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/45524/how-to-make-my-ubuntu-show-on-a-windows-workgroup
<popey> that was me going to askubuntu and searching for a) hostname, and then b) workgroup
<zleap> ok thanks
<zleap> i went to the wrong site c
<zleap> hmm,  should the hostname be the same on both computers (this is confusing me again)
<popey> I would generally always recommend askubuntu above any other site for ubuntu help
<zleap> ok
<popey> what does your gut say?
<popey> do you think two machines should have the same hostname?
<zleap> no as hostname is computer name
<zleap> so its domain then
<zleap> so if both comptuers are on say homenet,  then samba will work (i fixed it ages ago, since done a re-install) and its broken again
<popey> i have no idea what you're trying to do
<popey> I have multiple ubuntu computers on my lan, they are all in "WORKGROUP"
<popey> it all just works
<zleap> so how do I change the WORKGROUP bit to something else
<popey> 19:35:26 < popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/45524/how-to-make-my-ubuntu-show-on-a-windows-workgroup
<popey> the samba config almost certainly sets this
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i will look at the samba settings
<zleap> for some reason ubuntu thinks I am out of ink so i can only print from windows,
<zleap> or directly from the printer
<zleap> niether of which says I am out of ink, i want to set up windows to share a printer, (which is also on the network)
<zleap> so hub / switch thing is connected to 2 computers + 1 printer
<zleap> i don't want to have to keep switch video cables around
<zleap> ok i think i am getting somewhere
<zleap> yay
<zleap> ok i can now print from ubuntu - via samba / windows
<s0k1n> hello
<s0k1n> can somebody help me change the boot priority between ubuntu 11.10 and windows 7?
<popey> s0k1n: http://askubuntu.com/questions/100232/change-the-grub-boot-order-for-ubuntu-11-10
<s0k1n> i will try it thanks :)
<zleap> popey, thanks that would be useful to me too
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Important Speaking Requirements - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/01/important-speaking-requirements/
<n1md4> kirrus: Are you around?
<ali1234> so adobe made their "final" flash release on linux, and it has a trivial bug where it sends U and V planes reversed when playing video with hardware acceleration
<AlanBell> the smurf bug
<ali1234> exactly
<AlanBell> wasn't it when playing without hw accelleration?
<ali1234> no
<AlanBell> sucky either way really, but I think that is suckier
<ali1234> also it is impossible to disable hardware acceleration because of the bug where you can't click in the options at all
<czajkowski> dear chrome stop crashing on launch :?
<czajkowski> :/
<OmNomDeBonBon> ali1234, it's not final.
<OmNomDeBonBon> Pepper API, something, Chrome, blah blah.
<ali1234> no, it is final
<OmNomDeBonBon> Flash is dead, anyway.
<ali1234> the bug report on adobe is marked "closed, withdrawn, feature removed"
<OmNomDeBonBon> The day they announced no more mobile Flash is the day they pretty much gave up on Flash. Everything to do with Flash right now is milking the tech as long as they can.
<ali1234> and your point is?
<ali1234> this is a regression introduced in the last ever release
<ali1234> it's extremely obvious, and very easy to reverse
<OmNomDeBonBon> My point is that it isn't the final version of Flash for Linux.
<OmNomDeBonBon> "Adobe will continue to make new versions of the Flash Player that use the new PEPPAPI (Pepper API). They will no longer make any new versions of the plugin that support the older NSAPI model. PEPPAPI was created by Mozilla and Google, but since PEPPAPI was introduced, Mozilla decided to not support it ("it is too hard")."
<OmNomDeBonBon> ali1234, that's the beauty of Linux - you can code your own alternative to Flash which doesn't have that regression.
<ali1234> there are already several alternatives to flash
<OmNomDeBonBon> I suggest you use one of the following names: Bang, Light, Photography, Gordon.
<popey> bug 971086
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 971086 in unity "Flicker of launcher during drag and drop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/971086
<OmNomDeBonBon> The reason Flash needs to die is because of all the constant security flaws discovered, not because HTML5 is "better" (it isn't, at least not for games or video).
<AlanBell> I hadn't really noticed flash as a major security problem
<AlanBell> it is just closed and low quality
<AlanBell> ali1234: maybe a compiz plugin could swap back U and V planes?
<ali1234> no?
<ali1234> but a preload wrapper could do it
<shauno> that kinda surprises me.  flash is famous for being the primary vector for browser-based attacks now that activex is pretty much dead
<AlanBell> I guess I don't go to sites that want to attack me
<shauno> their last update (3 days ago) fixes two remote-code-execution CVE's :/
<shauno> what worries me most with flash, is that I don't have to. all it takes is a malicious user buying an ad spot
<directhex> argh headache
<ali1234> can a library detect which executable loaded it?
<directhex> ali1234: System.Assembly.GetCallingAssembly()
<ali1234> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz96fx9AfS1r97e7io1_500.jpg
<ali1234> what about getenv("_");
<gord> ali1234, /proc/self/exe should be a symlink to whatever executable is looking at it
<Myrtti> hm, doesn't look like I can make a window sticky anymore
<Myrtti> that's disappointing
<Myrtti> I swear if this was one of Gnome3:s designed features, I'll go mad
<gord> Myrtti, sticky?
<Myrtti> right-click on the window top thingie, choose always on top and always on visible workspace
<gord> stays on top and stays on my workspace here
<Myrtti> always on top works but visible workspace doesn't
<Myrtti> somewhat ruins my videochats :-|
<gord> does here :(
<gord> maybe its just a certain application?
<Myrtti> empathy :-|
<Myrtti> I don't know, I don't care about other apps :-|
<AlanBell> works here
<Myrtti> yeah, doesn't work on chromium either
 * popey files bug 971097
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 971097 in unity "ALT+Tab in keynav mode brings up HUD" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/971097
 * popey files bug 971121
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 971121 in unity "Tiny inconsistencies in HUD and Dash appearance" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/971121
 * popey gets back to finding more bugs
 * popey files bug 971130
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 971130 in unity "Dash waits before letting user press 'enter'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/971130
 * penguin42 wonders if we'll make it to 1M bugs this cycle
<popey> doing my best ;)
<ali1234> we should have a sweepstakes
<ali1234> who can most closely guess the bug number when the final release goes up
<penguin42> ...and will lp survive
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanonicalProductStrategy/Coverity <- this might bump the bug numbers up dramatically âº
<ali1234> there's been onver 1000 bugs reported since yesterday so it should reach 1M easily before release
<penguin42> popey: Oh interesting
<penguin42> popey: static analysers can find some glorious silly bugs
<popey> yeah, hope so âº
<popey> I think we're limited in what we're allowed to run it against by the license
<popey> only our 'own' stuff, like unity
<popey> i dont think we're supposed to run it against linux or gnome
<popey> but I may be wrong
<penguin42> oh, that's boring :-)  Actually, I think coverity run it against some of the open ones anyway
<popey> yeah, they got in the news for running it against linux iirc
<penguin42> popey: http://scan.coverity.com/rung1.html
<popey> http://lwn.net/Articles/115530/
<ali1234> http://linuxbugs.coverity.com/ does not work
<ali1234> i'm guessing "Active members of the Linux kernel development community" told them to get stuffed?
<popey> saw your comment ali1234 , you're right, i thought enter was borked too
<popey> i have been typing gedit then clicking the result
<popey> didnt think to wait
<ali1234> yeah me too, all day
<ali1234> i tried waiting
<ali1234> and waiting
<ali1234> but it didn't work
<ali1234> i didn't try waiting for like 5 minutes or however long the search takes
<penguin42> ali1234: I think the reaction has been mixed; obviously some people are a bit taken that someone doing closed software is getting publicity from it, but frankly if they find real bugs then that's good
<ali1234> it's no good if they find bugs, then say "we found a load of bugs, but you must pay or we wont tell you what they are"
<ali1234> popey: at the end of the day, neither way is a good solution. that's the problem with these search based interfaces
<ali1234> they are trying to guess what you want, rather than letting the user be explicit
<ali1234> so you end up with ambiguities
<ali1234> it is entirely possible that if the dash doesn't wait, you could launch the wrong program, because it changes in between you seeing the result you want, and pressing enter
<ali1234> that is clearly bad
<popey> wonder how much coverity would charge to show the bugs in linux
<ali1234> but making the user wait 5 minutes is also bad
<popey> i never get a wrong hit on the mac with spotlight â¨
<popey> super+space, type mine... get minecraft âº
<ali1234> it's also theoretically possible to get a wrong hit with clicking, which you dont have to wait for
<popey> not a huge amount of mine related hits on the box though to be fair âº
<popey> yeah, could move
<ali1234> i hate UIs that move stuff around without warning
<ali1234> seriously, they are the worst
<ali1234> ever get that thing where you click on a link if firefox, and the page scrolls by about an inch, and then you click on something else?
<ali1234> so irritating
<ali1234> that bug is a few years old by now
<popey> no
<popey> time for bed I guess.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-25
<diplo_> Morning all
 * diplo_ wants to go back to Spain! Brrrr it's to cold here!
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, and happy Waffle Day, everyone! :-D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> Morning all
<redtape-renegade> morning all-users.
<mungbean> morning *
<Neoti_Desktop> hello there.
<Neoti_Desktop> snowed in!... lol.... should start to melt soon... sun is out ... well kinda out ... lolz
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> anyone seeing this a lot today?
<SuperMatt> r:/home/matthew/Documents/SVN# du -sh *
<SuperMatt> 27G	2013.03.19.13.59.53
<SuperMatt> 66M	2013.03.19.14.12.04
<SuperMatt> 30M	2013.03.19.14.27.31
<SuperMatt> 30M	2013.03.19.14.30.29
<SuperMatt> 30M	2013.03.19.15.34.24
<SuperMatt> 29M	2013.03.19.15.37.01
<SuperMatt> 58M	2013.03.20.02.00.01
<SuperMatt> 74M	2013.03.21.02.00.01
<SuperMatt> 66M	2013.03.22.02.00.02
<Azelphur> woa hey, pastebin dude
<SuperMatt> damn, not that
<SuperMatt> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/webbrowser.py", line 489, in register_X_browsers register(browser, None, Chrome(browser))
<SuperMatt> NameError: global name 'Chrome' is not defined
<SuperMatt> this
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> seeing that a lot where?
<SuperMatt> well, I can't run nagstamon or playonlinux in raring right now
<SuperMatt> looks like bug 1159636
<lubotu3> bug 1159636 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "python2.7 failed to import webbrowser: NameError in register_X_browsers(): global name 'Chrome' is not defined - Regression in 2.7.4~rc1-2ubuntu1" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1159636
<Azelphur> they broked it.
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> yeah, it all seems to add up
<SuperMatt> *sigh*
<SuperMatt> I was hoping *I* could raise that bug :(
<popey> SuperMatt: yes
<davmor2> Morning all
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I have been facing this issue -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5645990/ for quite sometime. Any suggestions?
<popey> kaushal: what happens if you "sudo dpkg --configure -a"?
 * popey goes to get coffee
<kaushal> popey: ok
<davmor2> kaushal: after that do a apt-cache policy libuno*
<kaushal> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5646006/
<SuperMatt> apt-get -f install?
<popey> I'd be inclined to:-
<popey> sudo apt-get install --reinstall libreoffice3.6-dict-en libreoffice3.6-dict-es libreoffice3.6-dict-fr
<kaushal> davmor2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5646009/
<kaushal> popey: ok
<popey> Good morning Guest13162 !
<kaushal> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5646012/
<kaushal> SuperMatt: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5646018/
<popey> aha!
<popey> Reinstallation of libreoffice3.6-dict-es is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.
<popey> kaushal: apt-cache policy libreoffice3.6-dict-es
<popey> you got that from a PPA or something?
<kaushal> popey: not sure
<kaushal> let me check my sources.list
<popey> run that command ^^
<popey> 11:08:55 < popey> kaushal: apt-cache policy libreoffice3.6-dict-es
<kaushal> popey: ok
<kaushal> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5646023/
<popey> right, so you either manually installed the debs, or you installed from a ppa which you subsequently disabled
<kaushal> ok
<popey> possibly https://launchpad.net/~upubuntu-com/+archive/libreoffice
<popey> a few things..
<kaushal> popey: so is there a way to remove this error?
<popey> 1) note that you're on oneiric which goes out of support in 1 month, I would consider upgrading
<popey> 2) I would recommend reinstalling libreoffice from base to get it back to normal
<popey> can you do this:-
<popey> dpkg -l libre* | grep ^ii and pastebin the output
<kaushal> popey: i have downloaded debs from http://www.libreoffice.org/download/?type=deb-x86&lang=en-US&version=4.0.1
<popey> when?
<popey> recently?
<kaushal> popey: yes
<kaushal> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5646028/
<popey> because that's 4.0.1, and your broken debs are 3.6
<ikonia> directhex: are you still keyboard shopping ?
<popey> ooh, what a mishmash
<directhex> ikonia, mmm, maybe. maybe not. why, did you have a suggestion?
<kaushal> popey: is there a way to purge 3.6 completely?
<ikonia> directhex: I went to an office on Friday that had these on each desk, I was quite impressied http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/k750-keyboard?crid=26
<popey> kaushal: i would sudo apt-get autoremove --purge libreoffice3.5 libreoffice3.6
<kaushal> popey: ok
<ikonia> directhex: they where a UK version though, but I can't see a UK version in the shop
<popey> solar power...
<popey> like most geeks have sunlight in their lives...
<ikonia> popey: (they are having a green push)
<ikonia> marketing etc
<popey> clearly
<popey> green push should mean "re-use IBM Model M keyboards" IMO âº
<directhex> ikonia, personally i love everything about http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/illuminated-keyboard?crid=26 - shame it doesn't do at least 4 key rollover
<ikonia> directhex: "key rollover" ?
<popey> kaushal: you might need to manually remove all of those 3.5 and 3.6 packages
<directhex> ikonia, simultaneous keypresses before it starts ignoring some of them
<popey> chording?
<davmor2> popey: not all of us work in north facing office and never see daylight.....l.just me then :(
<ikonia> ahhh, so you can only press 4 keys at once, the 5th doesn't count
<kaushal> popey: it worked
<kaushal> popey: Thanks a lot
<popey> kaushal: np
<ikonia> directhex: there did you get the rollover count info ?
<directhex> ikonia, the example that sticks in my mind from using a logitech is binding of isaac. you control movement with WASD, and shooting with arrow keys. it is not possible to move diagonally and shoot, in 2 directions (fine in the other 2) with a logitech non-gaming keyboard
<popey> kaushal: do make plans to upgrade to 12.04 sometime soon
<kaushal> popey: sure
<kaushal> popey: how about 12.10 or 13.04?
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<ikonia> directhex: is the wireless keyboard version any better ? http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-illuminated-keyboard-k800?crid=26
<ikonia> directhex: I don't see anything documenting the rollover count
<directhex> ikonia, typically it's not documented, except on keyboards which advertise it as a feature
<directhex> also frustrating: it is impossible to support more than a few keys at once over USB. ps2 was better in this regard.
<ikonia> learn something new every day
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_(key)
<popey> bigcalm: pong!
<popey> kaushal: I would go 12.04 or 13.04
<popey> 12.10 is a bit of a stinker imo âº
<bigcalm> popey: a pong clone? That's an ambitious project
<popey> hah
<kaushal> popey: ok
<SuperMatt> I never considered 12.10 a stinker, I always thought it had a little something over 12.04
<kaushal> popey: stinker?
<popey> not as good
<kaushal> popey: do you mean it is buggy?
<kaushal> popey: ok
<popey> i personally prefer 12.04 or 13.04, other people have different opinions
<kaushal> 13.04 is going to be released on Apr 25,2013?
<davmor2> popey +1
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> 12.10 is working for me, but it took some help to get the graphics drivers working correctly
<davmor2> 12.10 really wasn't our best
<davmor2> bigcalm: then you will be blown away by 13.04
<ikonia> blown away.......
<Myrtti> Debian â¥
<kaushal> anything specific about 13.04?
<bigcalm> davmor2: morning. We'll see if I have the energy to migrate to 13.04 ;)
<Myrtti> â¥ https://plus.google.com/100016383867666174158/posts/RJXidkAsXWt â¥
<kaushal> Any additional features in 13.04?
<popey> Myrtti: nice
<SuperMatt> I miss the squircle style dash button from quantal :(
 * kvarley can't believe how good seamless mode on virtualbox is
<livingdaylight> When is April so i can try this 13.04 ?
<bigcalm> o.O
<SuperMatt> april starts next monday
<bigcalm> April is too soon!
<SuperMatt> but it won't be until 25th (I believe)
<SuperMatt> so essentially, we're 31 days away now
<livingdaylight> current release is usable, or bestest wait?
<SuperMatt> it's usable, but it really is up to you
<livingdaylight> I mean current 1304 builds
<bigcalm> I'm using it every day with no trouble. YMMV
<SuperMatt> there was a patch this morning which broke things for me
<bigcalm> I'm using it (12.04) every day with no trouble. YMMV
<bigcalm> 12.04? What am I thinking? I'm using 12.10
<bigcalm> I need more sleep
<bigcalm> Longer weekends please
<livingdaylight> anyone here use E17 or everyone on Unity?
 * AlanBell is on unity this week
 * livingdaylight wondering whether the resource savings on E17 are worth it, and whether Unity is a real resource hog or not
<bigcalm> livingdaylight: I use Unity on my multi monitor workstation but use xubuntu-desktop (XFCE) on my laptop
<BigRedS> E17? That's a blast from the past
<bigcalm> E17 will always make me think of East 17
<livingdaylight> yea, I'm asking in reference to this laptop, btw
<BigRedS> I use Gnome-shell everywhere 'cause I've grown dependent upon Empathy's integration into it
<livingdaylight> BigRedS: bodhilinux is way up the distrowatch charts - active development and pretty popular it would seem
<AlanBell> I do like gnome-shell rather a lot
<BigRedS> Yeah. I've nothing much against unity except that I keep missing IMs in it
<BigRedS> Other than that I'd probably use it on my Ubuntu machines because it's way nicer than Ubuntu's Gnome shell
<AlanBell> there is an even better gnome shell?
<AlanBell> I am using the gnome3-team PPA on raring so I should have the newest stuff?
<livingdaylight> I don't like having to go up into the corner to bring a window into focus each time with gnome-shell, otherwise I like it
<livingdaylight> but, gnome-shell doesnt' like the graphics card on this laptop
<bigcalm> AMD?
<livingdaylight> sometimes there are rendering issues
<livingdaylight> bigcalm: no, some onboard intel graphics
<bigcalm> Ug, pass
<AlanBell> I do like the window quicklists on unity now
<AlanBell> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 12)
<AlanBell> works great on that
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: alt-tab?
<BigRedS> AlanBell: It's less broken in Debian... The menu bar is where you'd expect it, online accounts work etc.
<BigRedS> There *must* be a way to have ls list only the directories in a given directory without using awk or grep
<SuperMatt> you could use find . -type dir
<SuperMatt> although that'll recurse
<directhex> ls -d ?
<directhex> but yes, this is a job for find
<SuperMatt> BigRedS: what are you trying to do?
<SuperMatt> in the long run
<directhex> find . -maxdepth 1 -type d
<sarage> woop :)
<brobostigon> oh dear, i just heard a car just down the road from me slip and slide and skid.
<SuperMatt> eek!
<sarage> **bangs head against desk**
<sarage> use winter tyres. it aught to be the law (and to make everyone use skid pans to learn how to control skids as part of the test*
<popey> or, you know, drive slower and less close to the car in front.
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: ls -al /home/ | grep ^d | awk '{print $NF}
<BigRedS> directhex: ah! yeah, that's far fewer characters. That'll do!
<sarage> popey that too but i dont see them lowering from 70mph
<sarage> in sweden it's 70km an hour not 112km
<BigRedS> sarage: that would be a daft law. Nobody will change their tyres for two days of potential snow
<sarage> no, i mean change to winter tyres from october till may
<AlanBell> can I drive on slicks from june to september then?
<popey> va-va-voom
<sarage> yes
<sarage> summer tyres
<sarage> https://friendly.ubuntu.com/12.04/ASUSTeK%20Computer%20Inc./K53U/i:EZi:PqA:op:KHg:BEG:BFS:BFJp:KHj:BEG:BFS:BFJp:KHe:BEG:BFS:BFJp:KHi:BEG:BFS:BFJp:h:B5G:Cw9:BkTp:h:B5G:Gnj:BKzp:h:B5G:Goj:BKzp:h:B5G:BGR:BkTp:o:B5G:Gnn:BKz/devices/ bluetooth not working still
<AlanBell> sliding about in a skid pan should be part of the test
<sarage> asus k53u
<sarage> AlanBell, it is - test takes a whole year
<AlanBell> not as a pass/fail thing, but just to attend a skid pan
 * redtape-renegade has the biggest lunch he's ever made, today :) (Tesco special :D )
<sarage> redtape-renegade, horses
<BigRedS> sarage: for the sake of four or five days of not-so-great weather?
<sarage> BigRedS, get to work or not
 * popey arrives at work via the stairs
<popey> and the kitchen
<popey> I might change my socks, but rarely need new tyres
<redtape-renegade> sarage, Garlic roast potatoes and chicken and bacon Filo Pie .. with Leek !
<sarage> popey http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/catalog/component/usb/0cf3:3005/ and yet... it wont work on asus k53u
<ikonia> directhex: just ordered the iluminated wireless keyboard and the solar wireless keyboard, worth a punt
<BigRedS> sarage: work from home, go by train/public transport. I've never *had* to travel by road in the snow
<BigRedS> I do live in London, though...
<sarage> redtape-renegade,  horses for courses or burgers...
<ikonia> illuminated even
<BigRedS> But, still, I'd hate the idea that I could be fined for having summer tyres when driving on a sunny day in December
<redtape-renegade> .. only chicken sarage :)
<popey> bummer sarage
<redtape-renegade> glad i used tin foil .. or-it would've gone everywhere !!
 * redtape-renegade still has tin foil for his radiation party hats :D
<redtape-renegade> .... and laser torches
<redtape-renegade> of course.
<redtape-renegade> Waaaugh .. I'm full.
 * redtape-renegade wonders if he should give leftovers to the *Silverlight developer* tied up in the bath ?
<redtape-renegade> Whoopsie ;)
<SuperMatt> do silver light developers deserve *anything*?
<redtape-renegade> Question : Let's vote on it !!
<redtape-renegade> MyVote: -1
<SuperMatt> -2
<redtape-renegade> SuperMatt, Are you pregnant ?
<Myrtti> popey: YAY! MY SOCKS ARRIVED
<SuperMatt> I was just adding your vote to mine
<redtape-renegade> YAY ! My Heat sink arrived !
<davmor2> hmm 38 minutes to do an apt-get update.  I may have to think about doing fresh install before I start manually adding ppas from LP :(
<redtape-renegade> SuperMatt, That is a good policy , although I don't anyone government can even spell *accumulated frequency* :D
<SuperMatt> now can silverlight devs
<redtape-renegade> tOdAy: i Is a Mathematician !
<popey> Myrtti: ooo!
<popey> wonder when mine will
<SuperMatt> s/now/neither
<redtape-renegade> popey, I'm thinking size 12 (??)
<popey> I dont think socks come in such specific sizes
<redtape-renegade> Mine are 'mature hobbit' size :)
<redtape-renegade> What happened to (Elijah Wood)  ??
<redtape-renegade> OT| ^                 ^
<Myrtti> oooh these are lovely â¥
<redtape-renegade> Apparently he's a relative of Dan Wood the IOM LUG co-ordinator ..
<Myrtti> my paranoia about dvt and varicose veins diminished immediately to a somewhat bearable level
<redtape-renegade> Myrtti, Would you *fly* with them /
<redtape-renegade> ?
<Myrtti> I'm a bit short on humour on things that have to do with my health
<redtape-renegade> Myrtti, It's a serious question | To stop dvt on long-haul flights some-times you wear special socks .. would you do that ?
<Myrtti> I wear them all the time
<redtape-renegade> I'll take that as a *Yes*.
<Myrtti> I've got a 80-fold risk to normal people of getting DVT just because of genetics, so I'm a bit paranoid.
<redtape-renegade> ok , I see , hang-in there !
<popey> Myrtti: are the nice and long?
 * redtape-renegade doesn't have the spare time to be *noid.
<popey> cant wait for mine to arrive
<Myrtti> popey: go below the knee nicely
<popey> excellent
 * redtape-renegade googles Manx Spanx .
<Myrtti> and the elastic right on the mouth of the sock is nice and wide
<redtape-renegade> Myrtti, Soo where can we get them / did you receive a voucher of some sort ?
<Myrtti> redtape-renegade: http://www.nabeesocks.com/ both me and popey participated in their Kickstarter
<redtape-renegade> Myrtti, What was the packaging like , too  ??
<redtape-renegade> Myrtti, i recall you talking about it.
 * redtape-renegade wonders if he can buy just the packaging. And wear that for socks ?? / When I were a lad .....
<Myrtti> buy just the packaging? erh.
 * redtape-renegade used to just wear shoe bioxes , when I was a Lad ... :D
<popey> You're a very odd individual.
 * redtape-renegade accepts we were poor.
<redtape-renegade> & for central heating ..
<redtape-renegade> We used to get *polo's* for the Salvation Army Citadel in the nearest town .. and put it in the cat's mouth and all sit around it while the room increased by 0.0001 degrees .. That was 'staying-in' with the central heating on :D
<redtape-renegade> (the cat was in the middle of the room :) )
<redtape-renegade> It's tough Up North !! Grrrrr.
<popey> my spidey sense is tingling
<popey> redtape-renegade, you remind me of phineas / herb / bolt who used to frequent this channel...
<redtape-renegade> leaves.
<dutchie> haha
<dutchie> rumbled
<directhex> ._.
<popey> Is /part an admission of guilt?
<directhex> well that was pointless
<Myrtti> well today is full of excellence it seems :-)
<popey> \o/ Socks!
<popey> the patterns on these are hilarious
<popey> I got two for me, two for wifey
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsdACHm0uoM Skoda have a lot to answer for as this becomes the track stuck in my head
<Myrtti> popey: four for me :-D
<Myrtti> mine mine mine, one of each colour :-P
<popey> hah
 * popey is toasty now
<sarage> number one in the phone que for handelsbanken for over 4 mins :(
<sarage> vafÃ¶r...
<sarage> urghch...
<Myrtti> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151380625890852&set=o.7960010129&type=1&theater
<popey> love that /51
<popey> bah!
<redtape-renegade> thought I'd talk to popey a bit..
<popey> hmm?
<davmor2> popey: run save yourself
 * bigcalm flops
 * davmor2 flips bigcalm 's flops
<bigcalm> I used to build flip flops to flash LEDs
<Myrtti> ihhh https://plus.google.com/u/0/+GoogleUK/posts/UMLucC3PyNt
<Myrtti> babby chicks!
<davmor2> bigcalm: in china they used to build flips flops for grains of rice
<bigcalm> o.O
<kvarley> Offtopic but where can I get help with MS Access? I'm being forced to use it for a uni project
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, oreilley ebooks ?
<kvarley> I have very specific problems so I don't think they'll cover it
<ali1234> what's the problem?
<kvarley> I need to make a mockup of a mp3 store in Access for a project
<kvarley> Need to change the contents of a listbox through a macro
<kvarley> I can't change the Row Source property which is where you usually put SQL or a query
<ali1234> use macro recorder, do what you want, then look at the source
<bigcalm> Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice: http://codepen.io/stuffit/pen/KrAwx
<ali1234> yes, very nice
<kvarley-guest> Acer Aspire 5920 - Backlight brightness doesn't seem bright enough even though it is on max
<kvarley-guest> brightness and max_brightness report 9
<kvarley-guest> but bl_power reports 0
<kvarley> popey: Did you your a 3Doodler yet?
<kvarley> /s/a/null
<Myrtti> I thought it isn't until November
<kvarley> Ah ok
<kvarley> I really want one
<kvarley> To be a child again heh
<dwatkins> neat, bigcalm
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> Oh, the mesh?
<dwatkins> yeah
<dwatkins> nice bit of JS
<daubers> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o
<mungbean>  /o
 * daubers mucks about with libGDX some more
<mungbean> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geary-a-beautiful-modern-open-source-email-client
 * popey spies at least 3 names in there I recognise
 * MartijnVdS writes a monster blog post about configuring OpenWRT for FTTH + IPTV
<brobostigon> got a wholw 7 questions on uni challange tonight, ohwell.
<popey> brobostigon: i got none right!
<popey> but then I didn't actually watch it.
<brobostigon> popey: no? oh dear. :(
<brobostigon> ah,
<dogmatic69> migrated to thunderbird from evolution.
<dogmatic69> Evolution is so buggy.
<mungbean> also, http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1azkrr/we_are_yorba_makers_of_shotwell_and_a_new_open/
<mungbean> are doing an AMA now
<mungbean> thunderbird works for me
<AlanBell> what does HT stand for in a kind of "this is who I got that information from" twittery kind of way
<mungbean> AlanBell: Heard Through or Hat Tip
<MartijnVdS> gmail works for me ;)
<AlanBell> thanks mungbean
<AlanBell> and thanks to David Cameron I know that LOL means "Lots of Love" ;)
<brobostigon> lol
<mungbean> politicians do more "loving" than laughing i hear
<mungbean> so rather apt
<MartijnVdS> dpkg!
<brobostigon> wodehouse, bbc4, :)
<popey> daubers: java.. interesting
<daubers> popey: Android....
<daubers> and it's one of those silly languages I feel I should know
<daubers> and.....then i borked apache
<daubers> thats better
<daubers> popey: As an aside, I intend to do something in scratch as I'm helping the Reading Raspberry Jam peeps
<popey> bug 1160048
<lubotu3> bug 1160048 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "add-apt-repository won't uncomment a commented-out source" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160048
<popey> daubers: yay
<popey> its such a shame that scratch 2 is flash
<popey> s/a shame/utterly mental/
 * popey pokes davmor2 
<daubers> it is?
<daubers> :(
<czajkowski> what scratch
<popey> czajkowski: its a graphical programming development thing
<popey> aimed at kids
<popey> its in the repo
<czajkowski> yeah just reviewed one which was why I was wondering was it the same one
<popey> its pretty neat, and is shipped on the raspberry pi images people tend to download, so got a second lease of life in the last year
<popey> v1 was native and open source
<popey> v2 is manky web based flash nonsense
<mungbean> how insane
<popey> really annoyed that MIT of all people made such a f*ckup
<czajkowski> :/
<popey> I'm sure they got a lot of flak about it
<mungbean> sounds like a worse sequel than ghostbusters 2
<popey> heh
<mungbean> twitter direct message is "private" right?
<mungbean> i don't use twitter much but i have a friend who uses it like email
<popey> between you, twitter and the other person
<mungbean> i'm friends with this person's partner on facebook because he doesn't have an account because its addictive, or something
<popey> people are odd
<popey> i have a friend who logs in under his g/f account
<czajkowski> popey: aye sisters best mate does the same she logs on under my sisters ac as she doesnt want a fb ac but yet doesnt want to miss out on what's going on
<popey> i recently went through my fb and purged a bunch of people
<popey> one person pinged me on twitter and said he'd noticed I'd unfriended him
<popey> I thought "wtf! how!?" he has some firefox addin which monitors these things for you
<popey> i also un-liked everything except ubuntu
<popey> i looked over wifeys shoulder and it showed "Alan likes foobar... here's a new thing from foobarcorp"
<popey> which irritated me
<popey> just because I like "thing" doesn't mean I endorse "all other things"
<AlanBell> never quite understood why I should "like" a corporation
<mungbean> especially something like kia motors
<popey> many people blindly follow instructions
<mungbean> baaa baaa
<mungbean> especially my intelligent friemds who click share in the unsealed ipad giveaways
<popey> there's an amusing parody account i used to like.. "Condescending Corporate Brand Page"
<popey> where they parody and take the mick out of blatent social exercises corps do
<mungbean> i 'like' airfix to see twitter style updates they do
<popey> like all those "Hit like if you would..."
<mungbean> arghh
<mungbean> how many saures in this picture
<mungbean> 1+(1x1)-1= ?
<popey> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151536984380342&set=a.10150122888725342.318425.386341220341&type=1
<Myrtti> a pink case for Nexus 7s in Google Play?
<popey> like that
<Myrtti> lolwhat
<popey> where people think clicking "like" will in some way affect something
<popey> when all it does is ensure your name appears next to that brand in other people's stream
<mungbean> even intelligent people are stupid on the internet
<mungbean> and they never check facts
<popey> indeed
<mungbean> no today is not back the the future day
<popey> i usually post snopes links to people who repost stupid stuff
<mungbean> i am that guy
<popey> xkcd 386
<mungbean> i can't help it, i must fight it since it gets reposted 5 x
<popey> heh
<popey> me too
<popey> time for another cull while I think about it
<mungbean> even after you post the link saying its false
<mungbean> your friends are still commenting below saying "amazing"
<mungbean> must share this
<mungbean> NOOOOO
<mungbean> oh great. 2 seconds after clean nappy, the clean nappy detector has sent a message to baby
<mungbean> another one required
<mungbean> i largely manage to avoid correcting unknown people on news sites/reddit/forums etc, but on facebook i can't help myself but be "that guy"
<mungbean> who crrects everyones falsehood
<shauno> I'm guilty of that too, but it feels less jerkish when it's family
<popey> takes 3 clicks to unfriend each person
<popey> 1 click to friend people
<popey> \o/ unfriended basically everyone
<Myrtti> so I see. Fortunately I can follow the Sky adventures from Google+
<celesteh> Hello, I'm trying to sudo apt-get libglib2.0-dev and it says the source is untrusted. I'm not sure what to do.
<celesteh> sorry, I mean they can't be authenticated....
<brobostigon> concept, why would my nexus7 be able to comnect to my router and not my eeepc debian sid. ?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-26
<ali1234> popey: http://friendrouter.com/
<ali1234> i can still get to you: http://friendrouter.com/route/5150e791bc2e8b75b789b525
<popey> haha
<ali1234> if you're wondering, the site figures out that you follow htc-linux and htc-linux follows me
<popey> i dont mind twitter so much
<ali1234> it will find such a route between any two twitter users by tree search
<ali1234> interesting problem because searching the whole tree would exceed the API rate limit
<ali1234> so it uses geolocation as a heuristic
<ali1234> http://friendrouter.com/route/5150eaebbc2e8b75b789b527
<popey> yay, storywar downloaded
<popey> hah
<ali1234> hulk hogan follows someone who follows john cleese who follows someone who follows you
<ali1234> and if that's not mildly interesting, i don't know what is
<popey> it certainly does rank up there in the mildly segment of the interesting category of things I've learned today
<bootkigftrgds> morning..
<Seeker`> afternoon
<bootkigftrgds> AlanBell: Just for reference they now sell "Libertus" at Tesco under the 'Relentless' drinks range ...
<bootkigftrgds> ... I'm not sure if it's called 'Apple & Kiwi' or just they 'Sugar Free' version on the can but , either one, It's definately saying 'LIBERTUS' on the cardboard tray holding all the drinks..
<bootkigftrgds> I tried to take a picture, but became aware of the thousand eyes watching me doing so ..
<bootkigftrgds> S0oo I'll have to leave it till I get my adventurous to being thrown out of the local store :)
<bootkigftrgds> **get more adventurous ..
<bootkigftrgds> .. hi Seeker`..
<redtape-renegade> Fun fact : The number of countries that have been at War that have at least one McDonalds is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzero http://open.spotify.com/track/0ENkmfMS6Z8IItYtH6jEkJ (0mn:32secs)
<diplo> Morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * bigcalm roasts AlanChicken 
<AlanChicken> gosh
<AlanChicken> !ghost
<lubotu3`> If you own an IRC nick that is currently being used, you can make it change nicks by typing: /msg nickserv release <nick> <password> | If you have a dead (ghost) connection, you can make it quit by typing: /msg nickserv ghost <nick> <password> | further help in #freenode
<AlanBell> http://www.suasnews.com/2013/03/21782/quadrocopter-swarm-as-a-harbinger-of-paramounts-star-trek-into-darkness/ how cool is that!
<daubers> AlanBell: Very cool :)
<SuperMatt> top
<SuperMatt> oops
<JamesTait> Happy Venture Into The Unknown Day, everyone! :-D
<MartijnVdS> Uh?
<MartijnVdS> Why didn't anyone tell me? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01r522y/episodes/guide :)
<SuperMatt> ooooohhhhh!
<SuperMatt> of course benedict would be the Angel Islington
<SuperMatt> that's a damn good cast right there
<kvarley> Has anybody here purchased a Nexus device from the Google Play store? popey maybe?
<SuperMatt> I must get a copy of this as MP3
<bigcalm> SuperEngineer: get_iplayer :)
<jacobw> I got an iPlayer, now what do I do with it? :|
<redtape-renegade> thats pretty awesome .. did you see my post from last night ??
<bigcalm> !get_iplayer
<lubotu3> get_iplayer is http://linuxcentre.net/get_iplayer/ a small perl script which can download content from BBC iPlayer and ITV catch up services.
<SuperMatt> oooh
<bigcalm> Oh, didn't know it did ITV as well
<bigcalm> SuperEngineer: sorry for the tab fail
 * SuperEngineer forgives bigcalm ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...heartily recommends get-iplayer as well!
<SuperMatt> I don't know how to get it to work :(
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> man page is loooooong and complicated
<SuperEngineer> SuperMatt: "man get-iplayer
<SuperEngineer> SuperMatt: "man get-iplayer"
<SuperMatt> it's OK
<SuperMatt> I pirate-bayed what I wanted
<SuperEngineer> e.g. get-player --type=tv  "nameofwhatyouwant"
<SuperEngineer> cool
<SuperEngineer> but naughty
<SuperMatt> but I will check it out at a later date
<SuperMatt> weeeell, yes
<SuperMatt> but I've already payed my licence fee :D
<SuperEngineer> [though I doubt if The Big Chrysanthemum approves of get-iplayer ;)
<popey> kvarley: yes
<kvarley> popey: I was having difficulty finding my order number but it seems to be called "Transaction ID" now. Rang customer support and checked the order went through ok - should have a Nexus device to put Ubuntu on soon \0/
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: use the web interface, it makes life a lot simpler
<popey> kvarley: did you get through to an american?
<davmor2> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<^aDaM-iPad> lo all
<kvarley> popey: Yeah, called the support line which I think was an American number via Skype
<popey> how was that experience?
<kvarley> popey: The guy was very helpful, clearly trained well to make it seem like me as the customer is in control. The line was the best I've ever had to a call centre, so crisp.
<kvarley> popey: Weird that I went to American call centre when the device is shipping from Dublin though.
<kvarley> I mean, I thought they'd have completely separate departments
<czajkowski> kvarley: meh you ring dell.ie and end up in india
<czajkowski> calll centers are not always where you think they are
<kvarley> czajkowski: But that's Dell for you :P
<kvarley> czajkowski: True, guess it's just whatever is cheapest or just whatever their legacy location is
<jacobw> It doesn't really matter if you get what you want
<popey> it does if you get stress and wasted time as a bonus to what you want
<czajkowski> best customer suport I've seen in a long time was Toshiba, rang explained issue and 24hrs later laptop was picked up and taken care of, updates via the website and email notifications.
<czajkowski> was well impressed and that was without the extended cover
<rebtape|coffee> czajkowski, Whas that a netbook or what ? How much was the tosh. extra cover, just out of interest ?
<rebtape|coffee> oh, you said there was none.
<czajkowski> Z830
<czajkowski> No idea said I wasnt interested in it.
<rebtape|coffee> ok thanx.
<rebtape|coffee> .. time for potato salad !
<jacobw> popey: then you didn't get what you want, customer service that doesn't waste your time and cause you stress
<czajkowski> directhex: ever heard of http://www.ginger6.com/  any good?
<SuperEngineer> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21938671#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa  Yikes!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Has AlanBell been around this morning?
<SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: yes
<AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer
<Myrtti> I don't know what part of get_iplayer I don't understand, but I sure can't download that Neil Gaiman thing however I try
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti: using what command format?
<Myrtti> get_iplayer --type=radio "url"
<Myrtti> WARNING: No programmes are available for this pid
<SuperEngineer> ...hang on - tryiong another line
<Myrtti> ah right, nevermind.
<Myrtti> I just realised my mistake
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<Myrtti> rubber ducking
<popey> âº
 * popey wonders if wifey wore her new socks today
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti:  let me guess - get-iplayer --type=radio "Neil Gaiman" worked
<popey> wat http://www.thelocal.se/46946/20130326/#.UVGPUKDJqY5
<czajkowski> wow
<rebtape|coffee> ?
<davmor2> popey: WTF!!!!! Has the world gone mad, is that a news article for the first and it slipped out early?
 * popey shrugs
<AlanBell> "Has the world gone mad" < yes
<AlanBell> that really is the kind of case that courts really really don't want to come to court
<davmor2> AlanBell: it's easily dealt with, "I hope it taught you a lesson sir, ladies don't like being molested.  Madam I award you with praise, but please no more breaking noses, kick them in the nuts and do the world a favour"
<AlanBell> yeah, that is what should be said before it gets to court
<SuperEngineer> ...remembering to ensure the nut kicking is strictly in proportion to the bottom grabbing of course ;)
<rebtape|coffee> AlanBell, Did you see my entry for the Libertus News early this morning, hey ?
<SuperEngineer> 1 cheek = 1 nut
<AlanBell> about the drink, yeah, I will look out for it
<rebtape|coffee> What's next LIBERTUS Beer ?
 * rebtape|coffee notes that www.freeasinbeer.org is still available ;)
 * popey has tickets to the next Libertus beer :D
<AlanBell> nom
<rebtape|coffee> Plus doritos ?
<rebtape|coffee> leaves.
<davmor2> AlanBell: But now it is a president that has been set in court.  If the court had gone as far the other way as they could these things would never come back to court. The end of the court cases
<rebtape|coffee> AlanBell, popey, Is there any specific ubuntu news that I can mull over on the bus, while I go to town .. that I is worthy enough to be highlighted in my usual message to the ubuntu-uk-podcast Ans.machine ?
 * rebtape|coffee wants juicy news stories ..
<popey> http://reddit.com/r/linux
<popey> http://reddit.com/r/ubuntu
<popey> http://phoronix.com
<popey> (hah)
<popey> http://omgubuntu.co.uk/
<popey> I'd visit those
<rebtape|coffee> opening . .. at some length. thank-you.
<darrenF> #webops
<diplo> .
<AlanBell> davmor2: exactly, it sets precident, and the court is bound by the law and other precidents, so they probably couldn't do what they wanted to do, and didn't want to set a precident that could be used for evil in the next case
<dogmatic69> Lately inkscape just crashes when it is opened.
<dogmatic69> greys over, force quit etc.
<dogmatic69> Any way to see why? It happens with any file, not a specific one.
<dogmatic69> http://i.imgur.com/p2kSL3U.png
<diplo> dogmatic69: Open on the cli and see if it creates any errors? Or see if any logs are created ?
<diplo> First two things I try when I have issues
<dogmatic69> diplo: ye, I was just looking for something to debug with :D
<dogmatic69> meh, now its hung my terminal...
<dogmatic69> $ inkscape
<dogmatic69> ^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C
<dogmatic69> cant close it...
<dogmatic69> ah, just died.
<rebtape|coffee> dogmatic69, FILE A BUG .
<dogmatic69> bug 785701
<lubotu3> bug 785701 in inkscape (Ubuntu) "Inkscape freezes at opening" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785701
<dogmatic69> :(
<redtape-renegade> !bug
<lubotu3> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<ali1234> that bug is caused by NFS
<ali1234> do you use NFS?
<dogmatic69> yep
<ali1234> well there you go then
<ali1234> stop using NFS, it is rubbish
<redtape-renegade> ali1234: helpful as always :)
<ali1234> well, it's true
<ali1234> NFS has long been known to be inadequate for just about any use
<ali1234> it is famous for causing programs to randomly freeze, because of the way it is designed
<mgdm> what's better than it, though?
<mgdm> someone tried to tell me to use SMB or SSHFS instead
<mgdm> I laughed
<ali1234> yes, both of those are better
<ali1234> hell, transfering the files manually on floppy disk is better
<ali1234> AFP is also better
<dogmatic69> ali1234: what is the alternative?
<mgdm> heh. the day I put either of those on a webserver that needs a shared filesystem is the day I quit and become a bus driver
<rebtape|coffee> ali1234, : dogmatic69 , asked for your preference .. I'd like to know, Also.
<dogmatic69> ali1234: actually it seems the problem was from connecting to a mac in nautilus ssh://<mac>
<dogmatic69> so how ever ubuntu is doing that.
<dogmatic69> I generally use SMB for mounting network drives
<dogmatic69> and sshfs
<mgdm> I do that on desktops, sure
<mgdm> but for more context I was told to use SSHFS on a web server to talk to where it stores its images
<rebtape|coffee> ali1234, Your alternative, if you may ...
<ali1234> the correct alternative depends on what you are trying to do
 * daubers quite likes NFS
<daubers> 'tis nice and quick for things that need the performance
<daubers> CIFS is slow :(
<mungbean> popey: what was that tool you used to export all your tomboy notes?
<popey> uhm
<popey> http://www.robpvn.net/plaintext-export/
<mungbean> merci
<mungbean> anyone ever used the ssh sync in tomboy?
<mungbean> it's deisbaled by default
 * xnox is listening to the UK TOP 40..... on latvian internet european hit radio
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> why?
<xnox> BigRedS: it's the best radio station ever: they have ads, but not "talking djs", they simply play music.
<xnox> and their A-/B-playlist is compiled from top 40 songs across EU, such that it's actually good non-indie music most of the time. Good background music for working and working out.
<xnox> So no need to listen to Jameela Jamil =)
<mgdm> some parts of this office has a top 40 radio station playing constantly, it drives me to insanity
<^aDaM> Hey guys does anybody know what I select on UNetbootin programme for the OS version of Ubuntu? It has 12.10 but NetInstall, Live, HDMedia ? What one do I select?
<^aDaM> I am currently downloading 12.10 32bit
<^aDaM> To be booted via USB it has been formatted and I have UNetbootin open ready and waiting...
<^aDaM> Just need to know if I select NetInstall, Live, HDMedia/
<^aDaM> Oh im ment to select DiscImage lol
<^aDaM> via USB (F)
<popey> mungbean: yes, i used it for a while, backing up to my vps
<mungbean> any probs?
<mungbean> i have ssh servers on the net
<mungbean> to use if it works smoothly#
<mungbean> oh ssh sync isnt what i exoected
<mungbean> uses sshfs
<popey> yup
<popey> the problems I have with tomboy sync were almost all when i had tomboy open on two computers
<popey> which i stopped doing
 * mungbean goes back to looking at rainy
<mungbean> just received an email from jolicloud LOL
<czajkowski> I've found Nitro to be good
<popey> yeah, I'm loving nitro
<popey> only one flaw I currently have with it
<popey> and it syncs to u1 âº
<czajkowski> aye tis where I ahve it syncing to
<mungbean> what is it?
<popey> a tasks app
<popey> so not notes, but to-do list
<czajkowski> love to do lists
<czajkowski> and you can cross them off
<czajkowski> and review them
<czajkowski> very nice
<mungbean> looks nice
<mungbean> no notes :(
<popey> need to consider where to work for the next 3 weeks. kids are off on easter holidays starting tomorrow
<popey> well, tomorrow is last day
<diplo> popey: Libertus offices ? :)
<bigcalm> popey: take over their bedrooms, I doubt that they will want to spend much time in there
<popey> both good suggestions
<bigcalm> Ha
<bigcalm> 3 weeks? I don't think I ever got 3 weeks at Easter
<diplo> My kids only have 2 weeks
<bigcalm> I've just started using my Unicomp Model M keyboard after a month being stuck with a USB keyboard. The keys all feel so tall now. It's a weird feeling
<popey> *clackity* *clack* *clack*
<bigcalm> Yep, I've missed the sweet sounds as well
<bigcalm> I'm sure Hayley has as well. We'll find out later tonight :D
<mungbean> weird, nitro is coming up as "buy" and i hhave to login to payment sevice
<bigcalm> That is strange
<mungbean> installing purchase
<bigcalm> davmor2: czajkowski: USC is broken, fix please :D
<czajkowski> bigcalm: dont break it!
<popey> yeah, i had that too
<bigcalm> Humm, looks like I'm still not used to Unity. How does one take a screen shot of a single window when alt brings up the hud?
<popey> alt+printscreen
<popey> same as always
<AlanBell> heh
<AlanBell> "always"
<bigcalm> popey: I have lovely screenshots of the Unity launcher
<davmor2> bigcalm: how's it broken and on what version
<bigcalm> davmor2: 12.10, Look for Nitro in the USC. It's listed as Free but you have to click 'Buy...' and login to get it
<davmor2> bigcalm: press and hold alt  hud only appears on tapping alt
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's because it is a commercial app so follows the bulk of the paid system rather than apps from arb which are free or repo that are free
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's deliberate
<bigcalm> Pressing and holding alt causes nothing to happen until I release alt and then it gives me a screen shot of the area that the HUD appeared in
<bigcalm> davmor2: it's confusing
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's cause the hud was the active window
<popey> hang on
<popey> hold alt, tap printscreen, release alt
<popey> screenshot appears after releasing alt
<popey> yes/no?
<bigcalm> popey: if I do that while looking at USC, I get a screenshot of the launcher
<bigcalm> popey: if I do that while looking at xchat, I get a screenshot of xchat
<davmor2> bigcalm: not as confusing as if you get sent to the pay service when you expected to just have the app install :P
<popey> file a bug âº
<popey> ubuntu-bug unity
<popey> actually, compiz
<bigcalm> Isn't that what I'm doing in here? ;)
<popey> no, you need to angrily tweet it
<popey> and then not file a bug
<directhex>  GRR
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> Hehe
<directhex> ANGRYHEX
<czajkowski> oh and blog about it
<popey> and ignore anyone who asks you to
<czajkowski> dont forget about that !
<czajkowski> or start a thread on G+
<czajkowski> new way of filing bugs
<directhex> popey, don't forget ranting on IRC about how it's a conspiracy
<ali1234> this is why the screenshot tool has the delay option
<davmor2> bigcalm: hangon what screen is USC on incomparison to xchat?
<ali1234> you know, when you press print screen and you get that window that says "what do you want to do" and you click "take a screenshot after a delay"
<davmor2> bigcalm: ie is one on the unity main screen and the other not
<ali1234> then you open whatever window before the delay times out
<bigcalm> davmor2: usc is on monitor 1 (with the launcher). xchat is on monitor 3 (no launcher). If I move USC to monitor 3, I still get screenshots of the launcher
<bigcalm> ali1234: I don't have that option
<ali1234> bigcalm: of cource you don't. it was removed, like all of the useful options
<bigcalm> ali1234: then why did you mention it?
<davmor2> bigcalm: just open screenshot and then select screenshot of active window
<ali1234> bigcalm: because i still have it, because i put it back in
<popey> uh no
<popey> it is there
<bigcalm> ali1234: you know you can be frustratingly unhelpful at times
<popey> run gnome-screenshot
<davmor2> ali1234: it was removed by gnome actually
<popey> the delay option is right there
<ali1234> davmor2: never said it wasn't
<bigcalm> davmor2: okay, that's a work around. Not so good when one is used to alt+printscr
<davmor2> bigcalm: and that should work which is why you are filing a bug correct :)
<AlanBell> gnome-screenshot -i
<popey> you dont need the -i
<bigcalm> What's the bug reporting tool again?
<popey> just run gnome-screenshot
<popey> ubuntu-bug
<bigcalm> Doesn't exist
<AlanBell> without the -i it takes a screenshot for me
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> Ubuntu, not Unity :)
<popey> maybe you have GNOME gnome-screenshot
<popey> AlanBell: you're starting it via alt+f2?
<popey> thats why
<popey> start via unity launcher, just type screenshot or part of that word
<directhex> wibble.
<bigcalm> directhex: enjoying your new input devices?
<ali1234> running it from gnome-terminal does the same
<popey> odd, it just broke for me
<ali1234> not really all that odd, this is the designed behaviour
<popey> no, odd in that it didnt do that earlier
<directhex> bigcalm, hexmas isn't until sunday!
<ali1234> that is kind of odd
<bigcalm> directhex: ah, I was confused by your photographic evidence
<redtape-renegade> OT Funny | Just had a daydream, that I was on Blind Date ... Cilla B.  ... AAAaaaaargh ITV-Hell !
<AlanBell> popey: oh, I was starting it from terminal
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21938171 haha
<MartijnVdS> popey: he must have had a BORING job ;)
<popey> accountant, so yeah
<rebtape|coffee> czajkowski, I can't remember when that ubuntu-on-air meeting was supposed to happen about documentation writing , so I can watch it on youtube later [?].
<rebtape|coffee> ..thnk it was with Jono...
<redtape-renegade> Sorry, just switched to my other monitor : Anyway,,, Ive found the fridge entry for the next proposed meeting, [ http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/03/23/first-community-leadership-meeting-summary/ ] , ( c zajkowski )  but this leaves no mention of a time or event for others to go on ...
<czajkowski> rebtape|coffee: it;s not scheduled
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski: Well, perhaps it may be good to have some kind of scheduling so that I/we can let others know on all the media outlets (as this is a community effort meeting) ?
<redtape-renegade> perhaps I didn't phrase that correctly ..
<redtape-renegade> I don't mean to be pushy .
 * redtape-renegade wanders off  ... !
<amayer> if i run apt-get update is there a way i can list the updates that are waiting to be installed?
<popey> yes
<popey> apt-get -s upgrade
<popey> -s means simulate
<popey> or indeed apt-get -s dist-upgrade
<amayer> popey: thank you
<GentileBen> czajkowski: are you Polish or a cat owner?
<davmor2> GentileBen: czajkowski hates cats, which obviously means she isn't right in the head :)
<czajkowski> I'mn not Polish
<davmor2> popey: you can confirm that czajkowski isn't right in the head for not liking cats right :)  Although AlanBell is likely to argue that czajkowski isn't all bad as she and Jon have hens now
<czajkowski> ahem
<davmor2> czajkowski: on a plus side somethings just don't change :)
<czajkowski> I do not have hens
<czajkowski> jon has hens
<davmor2> But then Jon has a czajkowski too which means czajkowski has hens too :P
<shauno> I must admit I always wondered about the name.  I mean .. czaj is tea?
 * AlanBell isn't arguing anything (especially not with czajkowski)
<AlanBell> it is pronounced Tchaikovsky
<davmor2> AlanBell: you would be arguing for czajkowski not against :)  But yeah I see your point, I'm the only one crazy enough :)
<AlanBell> scrambled or fried or omlet?
<czajkowski> people, tis not the day
<shauno> ah, I should have seen that!  it'll make googling an etymology easier :)  I'm just curious if I'm seeing "false friends".  Äaj is tea in slovak, so that's all I picked out of it
<AlanBell> that is the question
<AlanBell> scrambled
<AlanBell> with sriracha
<ali1234> poached eggs is best eggs
<popey> +1
<czajkowski> hmmmm
<czajkowski> how cna I get music that's on my phone to my nexus 7
<czajkowski> am sure I'm missing some tick box here
<popey> upload to google music
<popey> or Ubuntu one music
<czajkowski> oh
<czajkowski> hmm
<popey> ask aquarius how to do that
<popey> maybe put it in a folder, sync it with u1?
<popey> but i have a horrid feeling it does silly streaming and not local storage
<popey> but i dont use it, i use spotify so pass
<czajkowski> ahhhh
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> have oodles of chunes! on zee phone and wanted to put some on the nexus
<czajkowski> maybe some movies that I can do easily
<popey> how did they get onto the pone?
<AlanBell> what is the nexus running?
<czajkowski> oh silly me
<czajkowski> I can just open it and drop them in
<czajkowski> AlanBell: android
<czajkowski> want it for hospital visit in case either of the kids want it for amusement/distraction
<popey> Sophie made tudor style bread and butter today
<popey> was very nice
<czajkowski> popey: they on easter hols yet?
<popey> tomorrow is last day
<popey> then 3 weeks break
<czajkowski> wow 3 weeks
<mungbean> what is it with DVDs of tv series that have ridiculous menus that are impossible to understand/navigate?
<mungbean> can't even see which epsiode i'm choosing on this spooks dvd
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_LXxlXSCyLY just decided I want to be Finnish
<DJones> Interesting review/thoughts http://slashdot.org/topic/cloud/a-glimpse-at-ubuntus-future/
<amayer> haha nice! my neighbors hosted a finnish exchange student. from what he told me finland sounds pretty awesome
 * StevenR_ finishes submitting a bug for 3.2.0-39
<Adriannom_> what's the best cheapo wifi card to get for ubuntu?
<Adriannom_> has anyone bought a cheapish wifi card that works out of the box in the last year?  if so, can you please tell me the model number?
<mungbean> i saw a thread on reddit yesterday about it
<mungbean> can't find it now though :(
<Adriannom_> thanks for the lead though :)_
<mungbean> ones containing atheros chips are good
<mungbean> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1au0vb/was_looking_for_a_good_usb_wifi_device_for_my/
<mungbean> Adriannom_: ^^
<Adriannom_> nice one
<Adriannom_> guy from #ubuntu says manufacturers actually change the chipsets of cards without changing the model number, which means it's hard to tell even if the same card from different batches will work
<directhex> that can happen with networking kit, yes
<Adriannom_> seems like model number should change or something?
<Adriannom_> to avoid facepalm+++++
<mungbean> i had experience of a netgear wg511v2 , one has made in japan, another made in china, both same omodel number
<mungbean> different chipset
<Adriannom_> brb
<bigcalm> GAH, another humble bundle
<bigcalm> Not fair
<bigcalm> Contre Jour seems to be an arty Cut the Rope
<bigcalm> Metal Slug 3 looks like silly fun and reminds me of arcade games of the early 90s
<bigcalm> The Room could be promising
<directhex> bigcalm, it *is* an arcade game from the early 90s.
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Slug_3
<directhex> hm, 2000? really?
<bigcalm> Oh, hehe :)
<bigcalm> The style is early 90s to my eye
<Adriannom_> mungbean, thanks for the help, gotta go cause the puppy is chewing the ethernet cable :|
<directhex> well, the neo geo hardware shipped in 1990
<Adriannom_> later
<bigcalm> Not sure Anomaly Korea, PvZ and Bladeslinger are my thing though
<directhex> it's basically a megadrive on meth, as far as the specs go. 12mhz 68k, plus 4mhz z80 as a co-processor
<directhex> (same cpus). but the graphical capabilities of the neo geo were insane. it could do filthy things to sprites that the megadrive (and snes) were nowhere near capable of
<bigcalm> There was an arcade machine in the bakers (odd) on the way to school. Spent too many pennies trying to play Street Fighter 2
<directhex> that'd be a capcom CPS board, iirc
<directhex> anyway, the megadrive can do 63 colours at once. the neo geo can do 65k
<bigcalm> Madness
<directhex> sorry, 4k from a 65k pallette
<ali1234> well original metal slug was 90s
<directhex> versus 63 from a 512 palette
 * bigcalm eyes his paypal account
<ali1234> bigcalm: weren't you playing the room the other day?
<directhex> i wanted a neo geo SO BAD when i was smaller
<bigcalm> ali1234: The Cave
<ali1234> it's like a remake of myst right?
<ali1234> oh right. but similar thing though, right?
<bigcalm> Erm
<ali1234> by remake i mean "similar type of game"
<directhex> the cave and the room are basically nothing alike
<bigcalm> Both are puzzles but not the same style of game play at all
<directhex> the cave is more akin to The Lost Vikings, an early blizzard game
<ali1234> oh, ok. the room is the one that's like myst though right?
<bigcalm> I've only seen a very short video so far, hard to tell
<ali1234> lost vikings was like gobliiins?
<ali1234> the bladeslinger trailer is a bit heavy on the cutscenes...
<bigcalm> Just a little
<bigcalm> I kept wondering when I'd get to see game play
<ali1234> yes.
<bigcalm> For a while I thought all you did was dodge items thrown at you
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> and bad guys jumping off things
<ali1234> presumably it's fruit ninja except you can walk around
<popey> I had a NeoGeo 6-slot arcade board
<popey> fun
<directhex> y:O
<directhex> :O
<directhex> envy!
<popey> I gave it away to London Hackspace
<popey> along with 6 games
<directhex> :o
<popey> http://londonjam2.eventbrite.com/
<popey> "The theme of this jam will be making games for our very own Hackspace arcade machine. On a side note, if anyone wants to help renovate an arcade machine, please get in touch. It's  the shell of an original Neo-Geo machine, but we shall jam new games inside"
<popey> hehe
<popey> didnt realise it was that long ago!
<sara> anyone used to flights to and from ue member states? is a thermos allowed on flights?
<sara> eu*
<popey> sara: an empty one, yeah, should be fine.
<popey> hahah http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341506/The-Thermos-flask-terror-threat-U-S-warns-airlines-prepare-new-tactic-Christmas.html
<mungbean> hmm i need to buy a cp2102 module to openwrt my router
<sara> popey, can i arrive at the airport at 11pm and fly at 7am?
<sara> heathrow terminal 5
<sara> not that i want to but i dont have other options
<czajkowski> sara: aye the airport is always open, may not be able to check in mind you
<sara> czajkowski, online checkin with carry on baggage
<czajkowski> shouldnt be an issue may get you some funny looks but the airport is always open
<sara> czajkowski, thanks.
<sara> anyone live in london? in the 1990's they had cash ticket machines at victoria do they still have those?
<GentileBen> czajkowski: I was implying your nick looks like something a cat typed as it walked over your keyboard.
<czajkowski> sara: yes
<czajkowski> GentileBen: if you say so :)
<sara> GentileBen, it's a eastern european name
<GentileBen> Also, I thought it was pronounced "zah-vov-sky".
<GentileBen> Er
<sara> czaj is a girls name
<GentileBen> "zah-kov-skee"
<GentileBen> C. Zajkowski.
<sara> czajkow and that stations open at 9pm?
<czajkowski> sara: yup
<sara> :) awesome - in stckholm they dont have papertickets as of the 31st, they close everything at 10pm :)
<sara> and the airlines not open then
<alach> hey
<sara> alach hej
<alach> i need help with my ubuntu.. can you help me?
<alach> well, can anybody?
<sara> sure
<sara> whats not working for you?
<mungbean> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<alach> i'm using wine to run steam
<alach> and want to run GTA san andreas via steam
<GentileBen> czajkowski: are you Polski?
<czajkowski> nope
<sara> popey,  get you eyes over here and help alach
<alach> once it starts, it changes the resolution to 800x600 (i think), but in a way that i cannot run it properly
<GentileBen> http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/czajkowski By gods, AlanBell was right.
<alach> yes please :)
<popey> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=216645
<popey> "My solution was running winecfg and setting a virtual wine desktop and "Allow the windows manager to control the windows" on the Graphics tab. Now, it works in windowed mode, but it works"
<alach> ah, okay. i gonna try that
<popey> not sure I'd trust a pronunciation site which described banana as "banana is something u eat"
<alach> thanks in advance, i hope i'll figure out what to do exactely
<ali1234> always use wine virtual desktop
<sara> anyone a night owl??
<ali1234> for games anyway - windows idea of fullscreen is pretty broken
<mungbean> lol they are talking bout bitcoin on newsnight
<ali1234> what are they saying?
<Azelphur> we must know :P
<Azelphur> ali1234: btw, reported myself to HMRC, got the legal situation sorted, declaring a company and going self employed.
<mungbean> normal newsnight garbage
<mungbean> boring twaddle
<mungbean> explainig it for the grown ups
<ali1234> Azelphur: legal situation sorted?
<Azelphur> ali1234: as far as bitcoin trading and tax goes.
<ali1234> i didn't know there was a legal situation
<Azelphur> it's income tax :)
<ali1234> so that means... what?
<Azelphur> that means I pay 20% on my profit minus expenses.
<ali1234> and how did you reach this conclusion?
<mungbean> only after Â£8k income
<Azelphur> spoke to a tax specialist at hmrc who looked it all up and called me back.
<ali1234> cool
<mungbean> unless you are earning already
<Azelphur> :D
<ali1234> yeah ad that 8k becomes 10k in a year or so
<Azelphur> yea
<mungbean> yep
<Azelphur> I'll tag it, but I'll probably just write cool things off as expenses
<mungbean> like gfx cards
<Azelphur> nexus 10...expense
<Azelphur> faster computer...expense
<Azelphur> lol
<mungbean> s'true
<Azelphur> so yea, getting even more fun now ;)
<ali1234> so what's your plan?
<ali1234> are you going to set up an exchange?
<Azelphur> ali1234: just keep doing what I'm doing on a larger scale and with no worries
<ali1234> i would like to see an exchange that works over ssh or similar
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'm also kinda interested in buying a place now since I have my own money, and I'm getting evicted anyway
<ali1234> you upload public key, and then no need for passwords
<Azelphur> hehe, I am certainly going to start doing interesting things.
<ali1234> or it could work by email
<Azelphur> Like bitcoin enabling some local shops.
<ali1234> pgp encrypted email
<graingert> Bitcoin!
<graingert> woo
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> slashdot had poll on bitcoin today
<ali1234> results were sad
<graingert> :(
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> slashdot has really gone down hill
<ali1234> it's a bunch of old guys who hate everything now
<graingert> /join #bitcoin
<popey> czajkowski: http://imgur.com/gallery/zotQTXg
<graingert> :p
<Azelphur> I'm not sure if I can buy a place though, as I'm not gonna have a tax history or anything by the time I get evicted
<Azelphur> my mum wants to help, she could get the mortgage, but I dunno how that would work with transferring it to me
<ali1234> dem hairy legs
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> Azelphur: buy house with cash
<Azelphur> ali1234: not quite there yet ;)
<Azelphur> not far though, rofl
<ali1234> i still expect a correction btw
<Azelphur> a market correction? that's fine
<Azelphur> as long as it doesn't stab me in the face after a large buy, I'm safe
<popey> Azelphur: eviction?
<Azelphur> popey: my landlord is kicking me out because I forced him to do basic maintenance on the place, I have a scumlord :P
<czajkowski> popey: \0/
<popey> oh, bummer
<Azelphur> thinking about taking small claims action against him, got the papers for that today
<shauno> isn't there some kind of board that'll fight that one for you?  like the prtb here
<Azelphur> dunno
<Azelphur> everyone seems to be of the consensus that he won't even turn up at court
<ali1234> well that's an automatic win
<Azelphur> indeed, I hope for that outcome ;)
<shauno> that tends to be because that's the normal way for people to 'beat' companies at small claims.  but don't underestimate what spite can do
<ali1234> yeah a big company isn't going to show because it would cost them more to send a lawyer
<ali1234> one guy however, is a different situation
<Azelphur> this is a small company, owns say 10 properties
<Azelphur> has a few employees
<Azelphur> promised a bunch of repairs when I moved in, did none of them, been here 4 months now, had to start threatening court action and they've finally started to do some of the minor stuff but won't give me any compensation (6 month tenancy)
<ali1234> i doubt he has real employees
<Azelphur> they seem fairly real, have uniforns, etc
<ali1234> probably contractors
<ali1234> if they're repairing stuff anyway
<ali1234> maintenance on 10 properties isn't a full time job
<Azelphur> he sends a guy round to collect the rent for example (wants rent in cash)
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> so he can pay cash to his "employees" and not book any of it
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> that guy is probably his cousin
<ali1234> been there, done that
<Azelphur> could well be
<ali1234> (as the tennant)
<shauno> even more reason I wouldn't discount him being able to carve out an afternoon to safe himself a default judgement, to be honest
<ali1234> yes, quite
<Azelphur> They've left me in pretty dire shit anyway, 4 months with no oven, washing machine, trash everywhere, flooding, etc.
<shauno> IANAL and all that rot, but I'd look into seeing if there's anything setup to offer you a hand with that one
<ali1234> that's pretty bad
<ali1234> i had no gas for 6 months one time but it wasn't the landlord's fault, it was the gas company
<Azelphur> nice
<Azelphur> he left me for 4 days without heating, ignoring the "24 hour emergency line"
<ali1234> it was a pre pay meter with like Â£100 of debt from previous tennant
<ali1234> and gas company kept telling me "just pay it and we will refund it"
<ali1234> which i knew was BS
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> so i went without gas, rather than pay someone else's debt
<ali1234> so the only hot water we had was the shower
<Azelphur> the place has sash windows too, but the gap between the two panels is about half inch
<ali1234> and the only way to cook stuff was to barbecue it
<ali1234> or microwave it
<Azelphur> you can stick your fingers through the gap and wave to yourself through the window :D
<ali1234> or toaster
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jo537hl9dvqcsg7/2013-03-11%2013.30.13.mp4?m the pathway to the flat lol
<Azelphur> he tells people to dump there :D
<ali1234> haha that looks like any street in manchester lol
<Azelphur> oops :p
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha
<ali1234> actually that's tidy for manchester
<shauno> I got old and boring.  I don't move in on promises anymore
<shauno> it's not manchester, the matresses haven't been burnt yet :/
<Azelphur> shauno: yea, me neither.
<ali1234> yeah and someone would have taken that chair for their living room
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p6l9y5hs1d042dx/2013-03-17%2015.48.42.jpg it's even nicer out there now :P
<ali1234> did i mention that when we had no gas, we found the barbecue in the alley behind our house?
<Azelphur> haha
<shauno> it sounds narky, but I don't do cash anymore either.  mostly because I'm bone idle.  direct debit keeps the lights on
<ali1234> i've never done cash
<ali1234> one time landlord asked me for posted dated cheques but i refused
<shauno> I have done, but it was sharing a house with 5 exchange students
<ali1234> you know, technically, it's impossible to burn mattresses in manchester, because it rains constantly and nothing will burn.
<shauno> (which sounds like the start of a horror story, but was probably the most fun I've had in my life)
<Azelphur> I'd request bank if it wasn't the only way to get communication with the guy lol
<ali1234> house sharing is both awesome fun and incredibly stressful
<shauno> there was nowhere near as much friction as I expected.  it mostly came down to people turning bittorrent off in the evening when people wanted to skype home
<shauno> and a great way to dig myself out of a hole when I finally started working.  when you can make the month's rent with 3 day's pay
<shauno> but again, old and boring.  not sure I could do it again now.  especially with 6am shifts
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-27
<celesteh> I seem to be having some odd kind of networking issue.  I can do IRC and some chat protocols and I can traceroute to, say, yahoo.com with no trouble, but I can't seem to load a web page.
<diplo> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning.
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: I thought you guys had already employed someone for a job with you, or is this another one on top of that now ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: We did, but unfortunately it didn't work out.
<kvarley> Where is the recommended location to install user apps to?
<TheOpenSourcerer> kvarley: Is it just for you, or shared between other users?
<kvarley> TheOpenSourcerer: Doesn't matter
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well it does.
<kvarley> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm the only user account on the machine
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just for you, stick it your own ~/bin
<kvarley> Where would the location be for multiple users?
<TheOpenSourcerer> to be shared I generally stick them under /opt
<kvarley> Ok :)
<kvarley> What is ~/.local/share/ for?
<TheOpenSourcerer> /usr/local is another common location
<kvarley> I have no write access to /usr so I'll stick it in ~/bin. Thanks TheOpenSourcerer
<diplo> :( TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> kvarley: This might be useful: https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/en/LSB
 * kvarley HATES opera
<kvarley> It sets itself at the default browser when you install it
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: yes.
<kvarley> How can I stop Opera being the default browser?
<kvarley> I'm running XFCE on Ubuntu Mini
<dogmatic69> kvarley: what do you want as the default?
<kvarley> dogmatic69: Firefox
<dogmatic69> open ff, settings, set as default
<kvarley> I have several browsers installed because I'm a web developer. Every time I install opera on a new install of linux it takes over - so annoying
<dogmatic69> edit -> preferences ->advanced
<dogmatic69> there is a check there.
<kvarley> dogmatic69: Makes no difference
<diplo> Settings > Default Applications ?
<kvarley> dogmatic69: It sets itself in the gnome-www-browser variable which overrides it
<kvarley> Fixed
<kvarley> If anybody else has the same issue - http://askubuntu.com/questions/116080/thunderbird-uses-the-wrong-browser
<knightwise> hey everyone
<SuperMatt> morning
<JamesTait> Happy World Theatre Day, everyone! :-D
<AlanBell> http://www.dabs.com/products/techair-15-6--grey-orange-envelope-case--check-bundles-for-free-retractable-mouse--8HW7.html?utm_source=retention%20email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email260313&utm_content=i800
<AlanBell> special ubuntu colours \o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> That mouse looks horrible
<AlanBell> what mouse?
<AlanBell> oh, that one
<bigcalm> http://www.dabs.com/products/techair-mini-notebook-mouse-7M68.html?prev=8HW7
<popey> it looks free
<bigcalm> This ps2 to USB adapter isn't sending | or \. Looks like I'm going back to the Alienware kb that came with the machine :S
<bigcalm> Ah well, Hayley will be pleased
<DJones> How stable is 13.04 now, with beta freeze due tomorrow, I'm debating whether to upgrade and help test for the last month, no unusual hardware on the laptop, i3 using built in intel graphics
<AlanBell> 13.04 has been stable all the way though the cycle, however I did lose my desktop background yesterday
<bigcalm> Anybody finding gmail (not google apps) IMAP slow to respond the last couple of days?
<DJones> AlanBell: Ah well, i'll give it a go
<popey> bigcalm: what do you connect to gmail with?
<bigcalm> popey: Thunderbird
<popey> gosh
<popey> why not use the web UI?
<SuperMatt> why oh why is creating an email server so tricksy?
<SuperMatt> All I want is a simple gui for setting it up
<popey> email is hard, lets go shopping!
 * AlanBell connects to gmail with thunderbird
<popey> you probably want roundcubeemail or that one that starts with z I can never remember
<bigcalm> popey: with several emails accounts, using a client keeps them all in one place
<AlanBell> zentyal
<SuperMatt> I do want roundcube, but I have to set up postfix and dovecot first ;)
<popey> gotcha
<AlanBell> did canonical ever do anything with zentyal?
<bigcalm> Roudecube was nice, the last time I used it about 6 years ago
<DJones> Hmmh, "Warning: Failed to read mirror file" after running do-release-upgrade -d & entering password
<bigcalm> DJones: change your software sources to the main server?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: http://www.zentyal.com/news/zentyal-to-offer-a-linux-alternative-to-smb-it-infrastructure-with-support-from-canonical/
<AlanBell> yeah, I meant beyond the joint press release
<DJones> bigcalm: It is set to Main server
<bigcalm> DJones: apt-get update before hand?
<bigcalm> DJones: I'm grasping at straws here :)
<DJones> Trying anyway
<SuperMatt> hmmm... zentyal looks like what I need
<DJones> seems to be running now
<SuperMatt> dang, zentyal doesn't work with quantal :(
<andylockran> hey all
<andylockran> how goes things?
<andylockran> Canonical's Landscape - could I use this to manage any ubuntu servers (eg, hosted on rackspace, bitfolk or other services)?
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> SNOW!
<DJones> bigcalm: You seem surprised at snow
<bigcalm> DJones: more disappointed than surprised
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> Its just stopped here, been snowing since I woke up, but not enough to stick
<davmor2> Morning all
<DJones> Upgrade failed, had to run sudo apt-get -f install to get it to continue
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<redtape-renegade> good morning folks.
<xnox> Bon Jovi in Hyde Park tickets are Â£75              /0_0\
<xnox> i guess they can....
<davmor2> xnox that is cheap in comparison to some prices
<bigcalm> 12 is small in comparison to some numbers
 * bigcalm grins
 * redtape-renegade looks at the real price of an X51 these days ::: | http://goo.gl/JQDTk = $1 K
<diplo> xnox: Its why I've stopped going to there concerts
<diplo> So yeah they can, but they're losing a fair few people, most of mates refuse to pay that much now
<xnox> the tour is called "Because We can" as well....
<BigRedS> heh
<andylockran> playing with xslt for the first time in years ; what fun!
<bigcalm> redtape-renegade: contact Dell directly, talk to a sales rep and you'll get a discount as they want to make a sale. My boss did just that and bought that machine for much less than Â£800 exVAT
<bigcalm> redtape-renegade: consider that the case doesn't really allow for much in the way of upgrading. Though I was able to fit an extra SSD in an empty space
<kvarley> popey: How long did it take for your Google order to dispatch?
<redtape-renegade> bigcalm: Your right, .. your right, however ..
<redtape-renegade> I would and have contacted Dell over some of it's more adaptable desktops which I have used in the past, for work (vostro etc) ..
<redtape-renegade> However, the X51, is something that is slightly defective by design .. because of what you said .. Soo I was comparing the advert to the auction.com sites for who had , had enough and therefore was willing to get rid .. and what price that allowed for coming out of the same country. Namely the US.
 * redtape-renegade makes a coffee before he brings out his cards, today.
<redtape-renegade> bigcalm: Yeah, I don't think that I will go for a 'games-box' just yet as there are a lot of "Steam - boxes" coming out this year, and I hope my trip to the CES next year will find a good one :)
<bigcalm> redtape-renegade: I'm happy with it for work and play: http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/
<bigcalm> But then, work was paying :)
<redtape-renegade> After all it's not for ipython .. its for the Steam-pipe, or whatever comes down that shute.  I usually by a new Linux Box for the fact that it needs to be in the Ubuntu Friendly webpage.. but that only because I talk to it's co-organiser.
<redtape-renegade> opening...
<redtape-renegade> Is that yur site bigcalm ??
<bigcalm> redtape-renegade: yes
<redtape-renegade> it's very good.
<bigcalm> Thanks
<bigcalm> Theme isn't mine if that's what you were thinking
<bigcalm> Content is though :)
<redtape-renegade> how do you keep the hardware freecycle stuff conveyor belt .. as full as it is ?
<bigcalm> redtape-renegade: that page is somewhat old. I haven't updated it for a long time. It's never gained any interest. Easier to just use freecycle on yahoo groups
<redtape-renegade> yes i do have several a/c's there and have done the same .
<redtape-renegade> although in America the prefered brand is yoohoo :D
<redtape-renegade> Anyway, The point I wa trying to make was.. If , as it's looks for your blog, that you've put some time into this | May I propose that you get involved with these guys ::
<redtape-renegade> wwwcentup.org .
<redtape-renegade> www.centup.org
<redtape-renegade> I have found them to be a bloggers dream.
<bigcalm> redtape-renegade: I only blog about something when it comes to mind. Really I use it as a place to remember things I've done in the past
<redtape-renegade> Even if it's just for 'your' amusement (the blog) .. I would say that if a potential high earner stumbles over your website / rant .. and thinks .. well I like the cut of this man's jib .. then . there may well be grounds to attain other 'interesting things' that you perhaps would like to show on your blog but would normal go for .. but things that others are intested in having etc ... Well this is your solution ..
 * redtape-renegade notes he may have mentioned this idea before , dunno ?
<Myrtti> "woops" http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/27/gchq_plain_text_password_reminder/
<redtape-renegade> #Anyhow  , just a thought.
<bigcalm> redtape-renegade: thanks for the info
 * redtape-renegade wonders what ever happened to "Web-Rings" animations that were all over linus sites as Links as a roulette wheel in th 90's ?
<redtape-renegade> **Gnu/linux sites ..
<aquarius> how do I know which model of HP Microserver I have? So I can know which hard drive I can put in it...
<redtape-renegade> its snowing hard here ...
<redtape-renegade> BTW .. London Transport are giving away freepost badges for ppl who may be pregnant and want a seat of comfort whilst travelling. I gues the badges work for Women with a Bump on any public transport . Let me know if you want the details . I got two .. and they sent those Outside The U.K. !!
<redtape-renegade> .. they just arrived in the post !
<redtape-renegade> .... anyway . That's my rant over |
<redtape-renegade> bigcalm: I'll PM you ..
<Lord-Readman> I am finding it really hard to try and get the cpu usage of mysqld via commandline so I can use it in a script
<Lord-Readman> ps -eo pcpu,pid,user,args | sort -r -k1 | grep -i '/usr/libexec/mysqld' | awk '{print $1}'
<Lord-Readman> this only prints the lifetime average, and along with the grep command of 0%
<Lord-Readman> any ideas?
<mungbean> mysqltop
<redtape-renegade> bigcalm: Are you reading my P/Message ??
<redtape-renegade> perhaps your too buzy .................... ?
<redtape-renegade> Anyway here's the new ponycar on the block :: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/22/review_renault_zoe_bev_electric_car/page2.html
<redtape-renegade> perhaps it's one for discussion .. as /that/ seems to be all everyone gets hot under the collar, about here.
<DJones> Hmmh, no sound after update, speaker is set at nil & can't change, no devices showing in output for sound, but aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Center.wav plays sound
<aquarius> ha! it is an N36L according to the HP website.
<popey> kvarley: couple of days
 * popey has an N36L
<aquarius> OK, #ubuntu-uk, recommendations for 1TB or larger SATA 3.5" hard drives?
<popey> they are all the same for hard drives
<aquarius> popey, ya, mine was yours, remember? :)
<popey> i have 4x2TB in mine
<popey> oh yeah :D
<aquarius> I have 1x1TB, and it's nearly full, so I need another drive.
<popey> wondered where that went
<aquarius> popey, you would think it would say "n36L" somewhere on it. Which it does not. And the HP website doesn't tell you either, even if you put the serial number in, unless you poke around extensively. Still, I know now, at least :)
<aquarius> blimey, 2TB drives are only seventy quid now?
<popey> 	Version: AMD Athlon(tm) II Neo N36L Dual-Core Processor
<popey> from dmidecode ^^
<popey> yeah madness isnt it
<popey> someone somewhere may have said something about hard drive size limits on the N36L
<popey> but I dont know who or where
<popey> Google will know
<aquarius> oh yeah dmidecode. I walked downstairs !
<popey> retro
<aquarius> aha http://n40l.wikia.com/wiki/Hard_drives sounds useful.
<aquarius> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-Barracuda-inch-Internal-Drive/dp/B006H32Q3S/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1364388732&sr=1-2 looks like the thing. We like Seagate drives, right?
<diplo> I've got seagates in mine
<diplo> been up and running 2 years or more now and fine
<diplo> need two more, ebuyer just sent an email for 2TB drives for Â£62.99
<aquarius> er! unbrilliant amazon reviews on that drive.
<aquarius> and the WD ones on that page are all Green at Amazon, which it says to not use
<aquarius> hrm.
<mgdm> the guy sitting opposite me has talked about having Red drives in his
<mgdm> but he also talked about having to RMA one of them, so...
 * popey scans what's in his microserver
<BigRedS> We've had reasonable life out of Greens but no raid card likes them
<BigRedS> they take forever to spin up and do something once they've been given an instruction
<aquarius> maybe a http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitachi-Deskstar-2000GB-Internal-Drive/dp/B004E9SGO0/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1364389056&sr=1-1 then.
<popey> "Deathstar"
<aquarius> I don;t know much about hitachis.
<redtape-renegade> That's no Pale Moon... http://www.palemoon.org/palemoon-portable.shtml
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5652203/  that's what's in my microserver
<aquarius> aha, you have some samsung spinpoints. the wiki mentions those
<popey> i do indeed
<aquarius> 160 quid, mark you
<aquarius> which is about twice what I want to pay :)
<aquarius> looks like the hitachi for me!
<aquarius> eleven quid delivery??
<czajkowski> aloha
<diplo> Actually I have the Hitachis aquarius
<aquarius> diplo, ah, sweet. that's encouraging then
<aquarius> I am getting over delivery being so outrageous, since the alternative is cheaper delivery and a more expensive drive, heh
<diplo> Tried ebuyer?
<SuperMatt> anyone know how to get postfix to process an alias before the final email address?
<SuperMatt> or maybe disable the email account for a system account?
<popey> SuperMatt: /etc/aliases
<SuperMatt> yeah, but the problem is that it's sending the email to a system account with the same name as my alias
<SuperMatt> unless
<SuperMatt> maybe postfix hasn't imported my new aliases file?
<SuperMatt> that was it :D
<mgdm> SuperMatt: did you run 'newaliases'?
<SuperMatt> I did not
<SuperMatt> it's all done now :)
<kvarley> popey:I ordered sunday night, still waiting for dispatch. I'm just used to amazon & ebuyer who dispatch immediately I guess
<DJones> Has anybody had an issue on 13.04 where they can't get to software sources
<kvarley> DJones: Does running "software-properties-gtk" in terminal give you any info?
<DJones> kvarley: http://pastebin.com/Q9Sj3Dgn
<popey> works here DJones
<popey> try "sudo apt-get install --fix-policy" - anything missing?
<DJones> Seems to fixing quite a few things
<kvarley> OT: Anybody know where I can learn about Python for the web? Is Django the best way to go?
<Myrtti> Django has unicorns.
<Myrtti> so clearly it's the best way to go.
<DJones> popey: Thats solved a couple of issues with the indicator applets, but can't get to Software & Updates from System Settings
<kvarley> Myrtti: Hehe true. My concern is that the documentation seems poor. Aside from the first app tutorial, you're on your own. The book is outdated.
<Myrtti> oh god, now the pink fluffy unicorns dancing on a rainbow started to play in my head
<DJones> Starting software center also won't let me get to software sources
<Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky3Ordfqn88 I'll get my revenge by getting it to play in yours too.
<kvarley> Myrtti: hehe
<DJones> selecting software sources in software centre (running from terminal) gives this error http://pastebin.com/28LdUUQj
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that was horrible
<redtape-renegade> Myrtti: Haha ..
<redtape-renegade> .. and with 1800 likes to 82 'un-likes' .. it's a winner !
<redtape-renegade> Woow .. Thy're really pushing the boundaries of StarwarS under the "Art2-D2's" on Amazon these days :D |  http://goo.gl/cH0Xj
<redtape-renegade> Myrtti: I click and subscribed to the 'unicorn' channel .. only to find a more annoying one .. on Spot.fx |  http://goo.gl/ys7QS
<DJones> Problem solved, opened synaptic, and ran "Mark all upgrades" and the "Apply" appears to solved it anyway, the upgrade did fail part way through originally
<mungbean> anyone know how to troubleshoot suspend problems?
<mungbean> consistently fails
<popey> mungbean: suspend fails or wake does?
<mungbean> popey: i think i've seenboth, certainly justearlier, tried to suspend and the stopping xXXX service messages were on screen but couldn't ctrl-alt-f1 etc
<mungbean> usually have to power off
<awilkins> Is there a web app or piece of javascript that will play back shell sessions?
<awilkins> Like a video, but without the hideous overage of bandwidth?
 * awilkins finds bsdutils script / replay commands
 * awilkins has found the marvellous http://shelr.tv which fulfils his need to unleash shell sessions on the world
<awilkins> sudo apt-get install shelr and off you go...
<popey> mungbean: stock ubuntu?
<SuperMatt> running my own email server \o/
<SuperMatt> and I've donated to geary ;)
 * popey signs up SuperMatt to various spamming services
<SuperMatt> you wouldn't dare!
<mgdm> SuperMatt: come across 'swaks' yet in your travels?
<mgdm> probably a bit late, but it's nice for debugging
 * awilkins signs SuperMatt up to various spam blocklists
<SuperMatt> D:
<SuperMatt> WHY U DO THIS?
<SuperMatt> mgdm: swaks?
<mgdm> SuperMatt: http://www.jetmore.org/john/code/swaks/
<SuperMatt> I did not
<mungbean> popey: sort of..stock ubuntu was installed, yes
<mungbean> added a couple of DEs, and have encryped home i think
<SuperMatt> mgdm: I think I'm going to step away from my configuration now
<ali1234> there's little to no point trying to debug suspend problems unless you're willing to fix kernel drivers
<SuperMatt> I do wish that setting up a mail server was a little bit easier. I understand the need for the bajillion options, but I don't understand why the default isn't "allow receiving from all, sending must be authenticated"
<awilkins> Is the default "only stuff on this machine can send" though?
<SuperMatt> it is, yes
<mungbean> ali1234: it worked once
<SuperMatt> ooh, looks like postgrey is easy to install
<SuperMatt> I might have fun with that later
<mungbean> X server just hung ,although can ssh in http://paste.ubuntu.com/5652673/
<kvarley> Is it possible to manipulate the apps installed within the ISO image for Ubuntu?
<awilkins> kvarley, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW676T1hpEA
<kvarley> awilkins: Can that be manipulated via CLI too?
<awilkins> I don't know
<SuperMatt> ok, all I need now is to some how link my owncloud webdav contacts with roundcube
<kvarley> popey: Am I allowed to make a site similar to SuseStudio but for Ubuntu? Would that cause any obvious copyright issues?
<directhex> kvarley, yes, i do that for work, to make a custom iso
<directhex> things like java & skype by default
<directhex> no unity
<kvarley> directhex: Thank you :)
<kvarley> directhex: I'm considering launching a service themed around that topic
<popey> there is a debian one already
<popey> which might be a good base
<kvarley> Oh and expect it to all be MIT licensed \0/
<MartijnVdS> Debian One? Is that like Ubuntu One?
<kvarley> Haha
<shauno> SuperMatt: "receiving from all" is a difficult default, without specifying who you're receiving for.  if you just assume local users at any domain, you're going to get bombarded with spam quickly
<SuperMatt> indeed
<shauno> they're tricky business.  any default has to be a very defensive default
<^aDaM-iPhone> lo all
<sebsebseb> hi
<davmor2> well that was one task that lasted far too long
<czajkowski> peeka boo
<MartijnVdS> howdy czajkowski
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod!
<madpup_uk> Hi all
<SuperEngineer> Made I laugh!  http://theravingrick.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/time-killer-extrordinaire.html
<mungbean> anyone got thoughts on this? http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/pass-a-perfect-shell-based-password-manager/
<daubers> Anyone have any idea why my mouse pointer is really really not smooth when moving across the screen?
<AlanBell> clean the ball? </retro>
<daubers> It's optical :)
<mungbean> woops forgot to upload my joulo data
<czajkowski> davmor2: sup
<SuperEngineer> daubers: clean the table?
<AlanBell> or dirty the table, shiny surfaces are more of a problem
<brobostigon>  /win 5
<daubers> Nah, looks like a rendering issue
<daubers> Get the same problem with a wacom tablet
<StevenR_> hrm. How do I add the testing kernel suggested here? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1160582
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1160582 in linux (Ubuntu) "Crash using 3.2.0-39-generic" [High,Confirmed]
<ali1234> StevenR_: download these
<ali1234> linux-image-3.2.41-030241-generic_3.2.41-030241.201303201717_amd64.deb
<ali1234> linux-headers-3.2.41-030241-generic_3.2.41-030241.201303201717_amd64.deb
<ali1234> linux-image-extra-3.2.41-030241-virtual_3.2.41-030241.201303201717_amd64.deb
<ali1234> install each one with sudo dpkg -i
<ali1234> reboot and select the kernel at grub menu
<ali1234> actually you probably dont need linux-image-extra
<StevenR_> ali1234: seem to have a cyclic dependency
<ali1234> well try installing them in a different order
<StevenR_> nevermind. need linux-headers-3.2.41-030241_3.2.41-030241.201303201717_all.deb
<ali1234> oh yeah, forgot that one sorry
<MooDoo> evening all
<redtape-renegade> Hi MooDoo
<redtape-renegade> Hey Everybody o/
<redtape-renegade> Had a bad day ?
<redtape-renegade> Call Anthony .. http://www.anonymous.se/wp/?p=104
<redtape-renegade> later..
<redtape-renegade> #happy-times
<StevenR_> ali1234: thanks. got them installed. Crashes after 1 min of uptime though :( (well, X11 does. ssh still works)
<ali1234> anyone feel like giving me some armchair legal advice?
<ali1234> i'm being asked to become a director of a LTD company
<Azelphur> ali1234: I might end up needing to do that for my BTC business
<Azelphur> be interested to know what you find out
<popey> Evening all.
<popey> ali1234: wassup?
<ali1234> we're setting up a LTD for drum off... they want me to be a director
<ali1234> and i'm worried about getting sued
<AlanBell> what is drum off?
<amayer> where is the "correct" place to install a program. i just compiled a program for the first time and would like it to be accessable to everyone one the system
<AlanBell> ali1234: the point of a limited company is that your liability is limited to the share capital (unless limited by guarantee) so you are possibly better off having it to avoid personal liability
<AlanBell> but as a director you have various responsibilities and if you screw up badly enough you could be barred from being a director for a while
<ali1234> AlanBell: drumoff.tv <- explains it
<AlanBell> who is involved with the company? how many people?
<ali1234> me and two others are looking at being directors/shareholders
<ali1234> i know these people very well and i'm not woried about them suing me
<ali1234> but i'm worried about scenario: company gets sued, has no money -> insolvency, liquidators sue us for "wrongful trading"
<AlanBell> if there is only a little bit of money involved then it is best to reduce that to zero, and have a way so that no money changes hands and no company is required
<AlanBell> if there is a worthwhile amount of money then a limited company is the way to do it
<ali1234> we need to pay musicians etc
<ali1234> and we'll sell the recordings at the end
<AlanBell> ltd company it is then
<ali1234> yeah there's no question about needing the company
<ali1234> the question is just do i want to be a director or not?
<ali1234> i think on balance the answer is probably yes
<AlanBell> yeah, probably
<AlanBell> three Â£1 shares to start it?
<^aDaM> lo
<ali1234> hmm, why Â£1
<ali1234> the current plan is 300 Â£1 shares
<ali1234> because we've each put around Â£100 into setting everything up
<AlanBell> that works too
<ali1234> does it really matter how much the original shares are worth though?
<ali1234> we're going to end up putting more money in later
<AlanBell> just when you pay a dividend you pay it "per ordinary share"
<AlanBell> you can loan the company money, and it can pay it back to you
<AlanBell> rather than issuing more shares and buying them
<ali1234> so liability is limited to "share capital" - if the company already spent all the share capital, that means there is no liability?
<AlanBell> it is worth getting the accounting right for the initial shares though, some people mess that up
<ali1234> or does it mean liability is always Â£100 each no matter what the company bank balance is?
<AlanBell> erm, it means you stand to lose the Â£100 each that you have put in or something, if the company has spent it then it is gone
<ali1234> and how do people mess it up, exactly?
<ali1234> so the former then
<AlanBell> when you set up a company you normally get 1 share certificate and 1 Â£1 share issued, which just looks like an irrelevant technicality
<AlanBell> until you want to pay dividends and it isn't clear who owns the share and there should be one each
<AlanBell> some people start out thinking directors get dividends, but they don't, shares get dividends.
<ali1234> yeah, i think we've done that part right
<ali1234> because it's 50% of the reason we're doing it
<AlanBell> yup
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-28
<ali1234> see the thing is i only do two things: run the IT, and provide startup capital
<AlanBell> is it going to be a success?
<ali1234> probably not
<AlanBell> then don't be a director (but have a share)
<AlanBell> directors are responsible for winding it up correctly if it doesn't go anywhere. If it isn't your role to make the project a success then you don't need to be a director
<popey> AlanBell: sooo.. fancy a visitor some time over the next few weeks for a day here or there? âº
<AlanBell> sure
<ali1234> AlanBell: if i'm only a share holder, can the other two guys decide to issue themselves 1 million new shares, thus making my shares worthless?
<ali1234> not that i think they'd do that, but you know
<popey> ali1234: i think you need to document the process for issuing shares, and each year you need to report how many have been issued to companies house
<popey> most of this is documented surprisingly well (without wishing to "RTFM" you) hmrc and companies house websites have data
<AlanBell> http://www.lawdonut.co.uk/law/ownership-and-management/shares-and-shareholders/issuing-and-transferring-private-company-shares-26-faqs#1
<AlanBell> generally if shares are being issued they have to be offered to shareholders first
<AlanBell> in proportion to the existing holding
<AlanBell> so no, you can't get screwed that way easily
<AlanBell> this is one reason it is a PITA to not get it right in the first place
<ali1234> cool
<ali1234> ah, but if the board also holds 66% of the shares they can just out vote me, change the articles of association, and do whatever they want...
<ali1234> in fact they could do that whether i'm a director or not
<diplo> Morning all
<kvarley> Morning
<kvarley> How is the data provided on packages.ubuntu.com generated? is there an API for accessing the repositories? Or will it be some sort of python web wrapper that queries the lists on the server?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: I'm assuming it's the same as Debian uses for packages.debian.org
<MartijnVdS> http://packages.debian.org/about/
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Looks the same. :) thanks
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: ^ that's the source for it
<kvarley> Ah, perl
<MartijnVdS> â¥ Perl
<kvarley> As far as I can tell it uses Perl to get results from a real Debian system and it then stores them
<MartijnVdS> oh, I'd guess it parses Packages files for each architecture
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Is it possible to add different architecture sources on a system? I know you won't be able to install any of the different architecture packages, but can you add the lists and search them?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: what problem are you trying to solve?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Building a large project, this is part of it. I need access to a list of packages available in the repositories.
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: if the packages.debian.org code is too hard, I'd just write something to download Packages files and parse those
<MartijnVdS> oh that's what that code does already
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: You are right though
<kvarley> The legacy code isn't ideal
<kvarley> I'd have to host my own copy
<MartijnVdS> yes.. or part of it
<kvarley> So I may as well write my own which will respond in the formats I want
<kvarley> Yeah, that's another option. Just make a wrapper that converts the results into a suitable format
<MartijnVdS> don't forget to donate it back to debian/ubuntu if possible :)
<MartijnVdS> A proper REST API on top of packages.* would be great :)
<kvarley> The whole project is going to be open source when it's ready
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: That's my plan :)
<kvarley> It'll be MIT licensed most likely when I'm done
<kvarley> Anybody know if Ubiquity has hooks for running a custom bash script after installation?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: there's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbiquityAutomation
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: there's are ways to run commands when an install succeeds or fails
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: \0/ thank you
<czajkowski> aloha
<kvarley> czajkowski:  \0
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Any ideas whether the commands run as root or not?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: as it's the installer, I assume it can be run as anyone :)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: but I haven't done preseed scripts before, so I don't really know
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ok, I'll find out shortly hehe
<jacobw> Boo
<MartijnVdS> ð¨
<kvarley> What tool is best for searching text? I want to search for "Package: " and grab whatever comes after it until a newline is reached
<MartijnVdS> perl ;)
<MartijnVdS> or grep
<directhex> Packages is in a specific format, you want to use a lib for parsing it
<andylockran> moning
<directhex> http://search.cpan.org/~rclamp/Parse-Debian-Packages-0.03/lib/Parse/Debian/Packages.pm :)
<JamesTait> Happy Weed Appreciation Day, everyone! :-D
<SuperMatt> happy fake friday \o/
<SuperMatt> also happy gnome 3.8
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: lovely dandelions, milk thistles, and other weeds?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, yes, those. Apparently. :)
<kvarley> How can I match "Package: " until the end of a new line in sed?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: http://search.cpan.org/~rclamp/Parse-Debian-Packages-0.03/lib/Parse/Debian/Packages.pm :)
<SuperMatt> does anyone have an spf enabled domain I can drop an email to?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: What's that?
<redtape-renegade> morning all ! o/
<popey> kvarley: seen http://live-build.debian.net/cgi-bin/live-build  ?
<popey> also
<popey> !info live-build
<lubotu3> live-build (source: live-build): Debian Live - System build scripts. In component main, is optional. Version 3.0~a57-1ubuntu4 (quantal), package size 132 kB, installed size 808 kB
<kvarley> popey: Nice :)
<popey> you may be re-creating a wheel that already exists
<kvarley> It's odd because tools exist but they aren't doing what I envisaged
<kvarley> I think it may be a case of building several things together
<popey> kvarley: what are you envisaging?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<xnox> kvarley: there is success & fail_commands. There is also a hooks dir, but that is only for pre-starting the installation.
<xnox> kvarley: it's run as root, and "in the live system", so to fiddle with installed system one does something like "in-target add-apt-ppa -y paa:xnox/awesome" (the in-target will do the correct chroot with networking et al)
<xnox> kvarley: there is also dctrl-grep to search Packages/dpkg/control fields etc.
<kvarley> xnox: Nice. Do you know an easy way to go about adding my preseed to the iso? Or is it a case of re-packing?
<directhex> kvarley, that sorta depends
<xnox> kvarley: option (1): unpack iso add preseed.cfg, repack iso (there is default preseed location, no need to fiddle with squashfs etc). option (2): boot wiith url=http://192.168.122.1/preseed.cfg param option (3) netboot desktop cd with a preseed.
<directhex> ... seems like xnox knows all the details, you're in good hands
<kvarley> Thanks xnox :)
<kvarley> Ty directhex
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> morning
<bigcalm> Is it not good?
<directhex> blarg
<bigcalm> It's Fridayish!
<SuperMatt> :D
<SuperMatt> cripes, I shouldn't have to rely on stardock to provide me with functionality that microsoft forgot
<bigcalm> I rely upon Ubuntu for functionality that microsoft forgot ;)
<SuperMatt> true, but there are a few exciting new games that I own, so I still have the old windows setup available
<bigcalm> What's stardock?
<popey> bigcalm: it implements some compiz/awn/docky like stuff on windows
 * MartijnVdS justed opened the box for an intel "NUC"
<MartijnVdS> and the "intel sound" played
<popey> haha, that's awesome, we should put those inside Ubuntu CDs, have the ubuntu drums play when you open it
<AlanBell> like those greeting cards, that would be cool :)
<MartijnVdS> The thing also plays that sound through an on-board speaker at boot-time
<BigRedS> haha, my nuc box is in my flat for that. Whenever anyone wins an argument they open the box
<MartijnVdS> *disable*
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: ooh. Mine doesn't seem to have an onboard speaker. Which model have you got?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: well it claims it does, I haven't heard it play the sound because I disabled it when browsing the bios :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: DCP847SKE is what I ahve
<MartijnVdS> It looks like it's a very cool machine
<BigRedS> ah! I've ended up with a USB sound card in mine since my monitor seems to have audio in but no form of audio out
<BigRedS> I have the catchier-named D33217GKE
<MartijnVdS> yeah that's a much better name!
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: is that just the board, or the box+board?
<BigRedS> ah, both
<MartijnVdS> because mine came in its own VESA-mount sized box
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> mine, too. And the disk is smaller physically than the ram, but bigger logically by an order of magnitude...
<BigRedS> this is the most involved I've been in buying a computer for a few years and everything's changed!
<MartijnVdS> :)
<BigRedS> though I'm still not really sure what I'm supposed to do with that vesa mount since my montior's being held up by it already. Is it to go between monitor and stand? Or hold the PC off to one side? But there's no spacers for the bolts on the other side...
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: nah you mount it on the back of the screen, and put the screen on the stand it came with
<MartijnVdS> though not all screens have their VESA mounts available for that when the stand is attached
<davmor2> Morning all
<BigRedS> ah, right. I figure that if I really want to get it off my desk I can just hang it by the cat5 cable :)
<bigcalm> hUMF
<bigcalm> Humf
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: net split threw me off freenode
<bigcalm> BigRedS: might be better hanging it by the kingston lock
<bigcalm> s/the/a
<BigRedS> I don't have a kingston lock
<BigRedS> but this is why cat5 cables clip in, isn't it?
<BigRedS> so you can hang devices by them
<MartijnVdS> must be
<DJones> Azelphur: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21964881 Might be of interest re bitcoins
<popey> it hit 90 USD earlier
<MartijnVdS> Oops:
<MartijnVdS> http://ark.intel.com/products/66886/Intel-Centrino-Wireless-N-105-Single-Band
<MartijnVdS> Weight (in grams): Saturday, February 09, 2013
<bigcalm> Amusing
<MartijnVdS> I wonder how heavy Saturday, February 09, 2013 is, in grams
 * bigcalm avoids making a drug reference
<popey> Dimensions: 12.3 kg Ã 35 mV Ã 8 bits/pixel
<davmor2> popey: in raring how do you refresh a nautilus view of a folder?
<popey> F5
<popey> same as always
<popey> cue AlanBell "lol always"
<MartijnVdS> popey: but.. gnome hate!
<davmor2> popey: yeah but nautilus have removed any link to the option it's not in either of files menus
<kvarley> xnox: Is this ok for a line in my preseed file? "ubiquity        ubiquity/early_command=/root/myscript"
<xnox> early_command is executed from casper.
<kvarley> xnox: I want to run something as soon as the live session loads or as the user starts the install. Is that possible?
<xnox> and isn't suppose to be: "d-i text preseed/early_command=path/to/foo"
<xnox> kvarley: define "live session"
<xnox> kvarley: we have ubiquity-dm session (aka install now) and live session (aka try ubuntu) and one can launch ubiquity to install from the live session.
<kvarley> xnox: The live session where the installer doesn't load straight away
<xnox> kvarley: your early_command then should drop xdg autostart file to execute something, or have an upstart job which start on started lightdm.
<kvarley> xnox: Is it possible to add startup items to the live session? The home directory isn't in the squashfs by default, if I created it would it be overriden?
<xnox> /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop
<kvarley> xnox: Thanks
<AlanBell> popey: did F5 break?
 * popey shrugs
<AlanBell> alt-prtscr turned into a kernel reboot magic key for a while which was what I was referring to
<davmor2> AlanBell: no but there is no menu reference to it so how would a new user know
<popey> i know, i was taking the mick
<popey> why would a user need to know F5?
<popey> surely the window refreshes automagically?
<AlanBell> it does it by magic anyhow
<AlanBell> for local disks
<davmor2> popey: NOPE  it does if you are working locally but if you delete a file on a file share it is still there you need to refresh it to make it go away
<AlanBell> open folder in nautilus, open a terminal, touch a file, magic happens
<AlanBell> click in another directory, click back again I guess
<popey> how did you delete the file davmor2 ?
<davmor2> AlanBell: now do the same thing on a samba share on another machine
<popey> surely if you're in nautilus and you click on a file and press delete, it disappears?
<davmor2> popey: I had to delete via the terminal the folder wasn't created by the user
<popey> the terminal
<popey> gosh
<popey> retro
<popey> </gnome3>
<popey> etc
<davmor2> popey: I seem to spend half my life in a terminal and I'm not a hacker
 * popey might dig out his VT101 over easter
<popey> or maybe not
<davmor2> popey: I'm assuming if it is a shared document in an office and one user deletes a file that wouldn't show either so would need a manual refresh
<andylockran> is this me, or does this internet provider seem to have superflous routing rules: http://dpaste.com/1037621/
<czajkowski> anyone in London or can be in London on the 5th April for 1hrs User testing with the nice folks in CAnonical please contact me ASAP.
<czajkowski> we need TWO people
<SuperMatt> I'm already doing the 2nd /o\
<czajkowski> well then you don't count in this call :)
 * redtape-renegade looks at the latest with google glass...
<redtape-renegade> I'm not sure it's good for what they envisioner ( a traveller), but the oppourtunity for Sports applications i.e. Snow-boarding etc is off the chart !
 * redtape-renegade plugs his brainfart.. | leaves.
<andylockran> redtape-renegade: I agree; I've love to wear them cycling/snow-boarding - but not for personal interaction.
<andylockran> I don't like the idea of being recorded.
<andylockran> but I understand the necessity for a camera
<andylockran> what's everyone up to over the easter weekend?
<BigRedS> sitting in a DC waiting for stuff to break
<popey> spending time with family
<brobostigon> beer festival at my local,
<popey> \o/ beer
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did someone mention beer?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ^
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> my brothers are starting their own (tiny) brewery
<brobostigon> is there anything like top, but does network interface monitoring insted ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: iptraf does that
<MartijnVdS> there are some others as well
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, thank you, let me look at that one,
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAn0wqfzNxE  "Like"
<popey> looks like it was filmed near here
<popey> can't quite figure out where
<popey> but looks familiar
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that look like it will do the job nicely, :)
<brobostigon> very bright, :)
<popey> bah, whats the name of the road at 1:57
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's just a grey sign?
<popey> chesterwick close
<popey> maybe
<popey> deffo *** wick close
 * popey wonders if ali1234  has the skills ã https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAn0wqfzNxE can you read the road name at 1m57s?
<MartijnVdS> popey: I think it's "*gwick close"
<ali1234> cheswick close
<popey> dont think so, seems longer
<popey> looks like it was filmed around these parts, and I cant find that road name on gmaps
<ali1234> it has been intentionally blurred
<ali1234> but the blur disappears one frame early
<ali1234> it is defnitely "-wick close"
<popey> agreed
<popey> I'd put it somewhere in crowthorne, sandhurst or bracknell direction
<ali1234> why?
<popey> it looks familiar
<popey> ooh, there's another road off to the side at 1:53
<MartijnVdS> time to download an OSM dump :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/ fibre
<popey> good call
<MartijnVdS> popey: OSM dump for all of the UK is 900M compressed.. it might take a while to grep that ;)
<popey> url?
<ali1234> the other road is also something close
<MartijnVdS> http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/british-isles.html
<popey> wheee
<popey>  8% [==>                                    ] 68,164,721  7.40MB/s  eta 2m 15s
<MartijnVdS> popey: 7?!
<MartijnVdS> 51% [==================>                    ] 484.005.952 4,84MB/s  nog 1m 58s
<popey> ya
<popey> 60Mb/s i think
<popey> or thereabouts
<Azelphur> phoned up VAT advice line to talk about whether bitcoins are subject to VAT or not, this should be an interesting one
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: of course they are. They're just another currency..
 * bigcalm drums his fingers waiting for VirginMedia to increase his speed
<Azelphur> currencies are not subject to VAT
<popey> you may be asking the wrong question
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: no, transactions are
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: currency doesn't matter
<Azelphur> I mean like you go to an exchange shop and exchange your Â£ to $ to go on holiday, they ain't chargin you 20%
<Azelphur> and it'd be financially impossible to do so
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: no, but some stores in London accept euros.. and you have to pay VAT whether you pay with â¬ or Â£
<Azelphur> yep, that's for goods or services though
<Azelphur> not exchange
<ali1234> popey http://ubuntuone.com/35cgLB9wxvnH6GTE4if7Xh
<ali1234> c?eswick close
<MartijnVdS> Sedgwick ?
<ali1234> no
<popey> crestwick?
<ali1234> maybe but ulikely as it wouldnt fit
<ali1234> HA
<ali1234> cheswick close is the road she's running out of, look at the road markings
<ali1234> but in previous shot it's clearly not a cul de sac
<ali1234> continuity errors :P
<MartijnVdS> maybe there's a hint on the "SOLD" sign at 1:48?
<kaushal> Hi
<SuperMatt> hullo
<kaushal> I am using google chrome browser Version 26.0.1410.43 on Ubuntu 11.10 Desktop. is there a way to open bookmarks located just below the address bar in a new tab?
<MartijnVdS> middle click them
<ali1234> need to rip the video at 1080 so i can frame step it
<popey> thats what i did ali1234
<popey> using youtube-dl
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: i mean on a touch panel?
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: any chrome extension?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: ctrl+click?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: right click + open in new tab?
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: thanks a lot
<MartijnVdS> popey: found it, I think
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://goo.gl/maps/3ss3F
<MartijnVdS> popey: based on the estate agent's name :)
<bigcalm> Super sluthing
<MartijnVdS> background doesn't match though
<bigcalm> Now contact the video editor and complain that they didn't obscure enough things to stop this from happening
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it's the same place
<MartijnVdS> ah yes it is :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> popey: what do I win? :)
 * popey hasn't reviewed the prize entries yet
<popey> on a call
<bigcalm> http://youtu.be/OAn0wqfzNxE?t=1m57s matches
<MartijnVdS> now for the house she runs out of.. :) which seems to be in a different place
<ali1234> yes that is definitely it
<popey> yay!
<MartijnVdS> the house she runs out of is on Hillside Drive
<MartijnVdS> http://goo.gl/maps/vQiZQ == the "SOLD" sign, still FOR SALE
<bigcalm> I just finished The Room :(
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://goo.gl/maps/oL0F4 = home @ 1:45
<bigcalm> Very pretty
<MartijnVdS> the plants could use a trimming though
<bigcalm> Anybody concerned by how much information has been gained here?
<ali1234> the other road sign it blyth road off hillside drive
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: we don't know her name yet ;)
<bigcalm> haha
<bigcalm> Ok, that would be creepy
<bigcalm> Is she not credited in the video?
<MartijnVdS> ah yes, she's probably credited somewhere
<ali1234> http://goo.gl/maps/Q91S8
<bigcalm> 2 and a bit hours until 4 day weekend. Woop!
 * bigcalm gives these unit tests the evil eye
<ali1234> does the live cd have left/right channel test sound files on it?
<bigcalm> I really should stop variety from using food themed images. Makes me want to snack too much
<ali1234> mr snacktoomuch?
 * bigcalm chews gum instead
<bigcalm> And drinks a lot of water
<penguin42> snacking on dry cereal works, you just can't eat it fast
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Beschuitje.jpg
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ?
<popey> MartijnVdS: doesnt look for sale anymore
<popey> not on palmersnell website
<mungbean> have a new theory on my broken tablet. if the battery on the tp gets too low, it cant charge :S
<bigcalm> That happened a lot with Apple products
<mungbean> some people had suvccess diosmantling and charge with a rc lipo vharger
<mungbean> warns directhex
<mungbean> i found  a cheap original battery and will try to revive. although mrs mungbean is saying i should buy nex10
<bigcalm> SO telling you to buy new tech? She's a keeper
<mungbean> and i'm refusing :P
<mungbean> i think its cos she wants a nexus7
<mungbean> so will cost me lots = n10+n7
<mungbean> instead of Â£15 on a battery
<mungbean> dont wanna risk doing the jumpostart with lipo charger
<popey> 16:23:10 < bigcalm> That happened a lot with Apple products
<popey> known issue with nexus 7 and nexus 4
<mungbean> oh really?
<popey> yup
<mungbean> i think the problem was that the cable became fauly
<mungbean> then ran too low on charge by display the "replace the charger" message
<mungbean> because i had an app installed to stop running too low
<davmor2> mungbean: did you get a new charger first just to rule that out
<mungbean> yes, althoughi got rippped off on the charger :(
<mungbean> bought from amazon as an hp touchpad charger
<mungbean> but was a palm charger
<mungbean> but the cable was indeed faulty
<MartijnVdS> popey: the one on the other side of the road is "For sale" in google maps, and "Sold" in the music video
<popey> heh
<popey> i looked up the road on nethouseprices
<popey> nosy âº
 * TheOpenSourcerer forgot next week was only 4 days :-( 
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: did you remember that this week is only 4 days?
<bigcalm> I forgot both and so did my boss
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will be rather tight to deliver a new project now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Yes. I did remember about tomorrow
<bigcalm> Did better than me :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can see myself slaving over a hot server during the long weekend somehow.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Still could be worse... Might have to go shopping with the wife and kids or something.
<kvarley> Where are the results of "apt-cache dump" pulled from?
<MartijnVdS> /var/cache/apt/ I guess :)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS:/var/cache/apt/pkgcache.bin ?
<kvarley> Can I view the contents of the bin file without apt?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: it's just a binary cache of what's in archives/
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Is it not the file that contains a list of packages on the mirrors?
<redtape-renegade> OT | Troo !! ::  https://twitter.com/NettyIOM/status/317253276330508288
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: /var/cache/apt/archives contain those too.. the .bin is just a quicker way for apt to search all that :)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I think /var/cache/apt/archives only contains cached deb packages of what you have recently installed on the system. Not all packages available in the repos
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: ah wait
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: there's /var/LIB/apt/lists
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Thanks, that was what I was looking for :)
<bigcalm> Humm, nobody told me that it had gone 6pm
 * bigcalm continues working anyway
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlFk6NIqHK0
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: and I am instantly 13 all over again
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
 * bigcalm goes on a 2 unlimited binge
<MartijnVdS> sorry ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: No, no no, no no no no........
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: there's no limit!
<bigcalm> :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: You Got The Power to say no :)
<MartijnVdS> and A Magic Friend
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/1g55QqilucQ0qr1x4Sv5fw
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you seem to be missing Good Life, pump up the jam, ride on time, the bomb, 4 O'clock in the morning :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: "The Bomb!" is in there
<MartijnVdS> as is PutJ
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: isn't "Good Life" a very recent song?
<MartijnVdS> ah, Inner City had one as well :)
<MartijnVdS> and the does sound very very 90s
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: you're welcome to subscribe to any of my public playlists :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: also.. put the playlist name through Google Translate ;)
<ali1234> where is beats international?
<redtape-renegade> Meanwhile in Farbridge       | http://mayorsblog.guelph.ca/2013/03/22/earth-hour-830-p-m-and-930-p-m-on-saturday-march-23/#comments
<redtape-renegade> OT ^ |
<ali1234> that guy is right but he's also a complete nob
<ali1234> i mean how does he know that people aren't doing those things as well?
<ali1234> he doesn't, and is just using it as an excuse to do nothing at all
<directhex> he's right. but bacon is delicious
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fio1NUxszhY
<mungbean> geary at 10% of goal, will they make it i wonder?
<mungbean> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/mar/28/amazon-fees-hike-third-party hmm
<brobostigon> adnams at my local, nice beer, :)
<mungbean> is everyone out drinking tonight? v quiet
<ali1234> everyone is watching mtgox implode spectacularly
<mungbean> mtgox?
<daftykins> :D
<mungbean> i was finally watching dune after plannig all week
<daftykins> i'm playing with my brand new TV
<daftykins> Samsung 55" 6800 series, Â£900 delivered
<Azelphur> ali1234: and I have 0.002 BTC
<daftykins> mmmm lovely
 * Azelphur sits back, puts feet up, laughs at everyone who isn't me
<mungbean> oh that fake money scheme
 * Azelphur is the bitcoin master
<daftykins> ;)
<Azelphur> got a big buy planned for tomorrow, this should hit the pit before then, perfect time for me to jump back in :P
 * Azelphur has it all schemed out
<AlanBell> sell high, buy low
<Azelphur> yup
<AlanBell> lots of interest in bitcoin in the mainstream media at the moment
<mungbean> reminds me of the dot.com gubbins which was also built on fluff
<ali1234> buy high sell low
<ali1234> oh wait sorry i thought this was btc-e trollbox :P
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> mungbean: that reminds me of this web design shop that was near where I used to live
<Azelphur> they were called www.dot.com, the name amused me.
<Azelphur> good marketing too, considering I remember it a decade later xD
<mungbean> lucky to get the name
<Azelphur> indeed, was back in the early 2000's.
<mungbean> i remember sun had a slogan "we're the dot in .com"
<Azelphur> lol
<mungbean> wanted to slap them for that
<mungbean> but i was busy adminning their servers
<Azelphur> haha
<mungbean> i remember when work was fun
<mungbean> 3 colleagues left my place this week
<mungbean> 2 other good ones a few weeks previous
<mungbean> more to come
<Azelphur> \o/
<mungbean> keep forgetting i haven't ;eft but just on paternirty leave
<daftykins> why are they all leaving?
<mungbean> restructuring performed terribly
<mungbean> and salary not in keeping with directly comparable competitors
<mungbean> hence, why bother?
<mungbean> if u have to interview for a new role, just do it somewhere else
<mungbean> seen some nice redhat roles, shame they are in farnbo*
<daftykins> what are you in?
<mungbean> what kind of work?
<daftykins> yep
<mungbean> linux/unix admin 15+ yrs, vmware vsphere , everything in between
<mungbean> used to have a great role looking after linux desktop + servers - best job ever!
<daftykins> oooh
<daftykins> would you per chance have lengthy experience with rsync? small question honest :)
<mungbean> used it in a variety of ways
<mungbean> go ahead
<daftykins> in the past i did backups from a fast RAID6 array to USB attached storage
<daftykins> but it'd take absolutely AGES when just a few extra folders of say a few gig would be added
<daftykins> my usage was 'rsync -r /path/ /dest/'
<daftykins> with verbosity i saw it iterated over every single image in this situation's photo collection
<daftykins> i don't understand why it's unable to be a lot more efficient than that
<daftykins> it was honestly taking overnight across a ~450GB folder
<daftykins> (of which the changes were minimal)
<daftykins> sound like something i'm doing wrong?
<mungbean> loads of small files?
<mungbean> was it a filesystem issue?
<daftykins> jpegs and RAW files
<daftykins> source FS is XFS
<daftykins> to EXT4 on the external HDDs
<mungbean> i'd try -av and -avz and check if there's difference
<daftykins> could one of those factor in?
<mungbean> only been an issue on a massive backup i do with >millions of files
<mungbean> takes days to delete files from the disks too, so not rsync issue
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> what does z change? looks like compression based on man page reading
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> shouldn't be an issue locally, but worth trying as reduces the bandwidth over the usb
<daftykins> surely that wouldn't apply well to jpeg and RAW images?
<mungbean> no, i typed that before i noticed you said the data type
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> ah well, gonna be backing up to NAS soon instead so maybe things'll change :D
<mungbean> worth checking vmstat and iotop etc while performing it
<mungbean> to see if it's cpu or io bound
<daftykins> ooh i love learning of all these top variants :)
<daftykins> thanks for the input, i'll give it a go soon!
<shauno> -z won't do much over usb, it's decompressed before the OS writes it
<mungbean> did a straight cp -r perform as badly?
<daftykins> hmm that might be hard to test given i'd have to use a sample set of data
<daftykins> since most of the time seems to be it skipping over the already-present files
<mungbean> using -n does a dry run too
<daftykins> with verbosity it'd slowly chug through every image file
<daftykins> i'd expect a very fast stream of files
<daftykins> but nope, it'd slowly trudge down
<daftykins> back shortly
<shauno> I think I'd expect rsync to be slower locally because it does comparisons?  unless the results of those comparisons saves you writes.  otherwise it's spending a lot more time reading/deciding where cp just cares "can I write this, can I overwrite this"
<shauno> so rsync would be slower the first time, but much quicker on subsequent runs
<daftykins> it's something i'd done several times
<daftykins> still sucked every time
<mungbean> there's a bug in oplder rsync too that i came up against
<mungbean> on rhel5
<daftykins> oh?
<mungbean> made things super slow, but i think that was loads of files again
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> this guy does take a lot of pics :)
<mungbean> prob a red herring
<daftykins> it's a toughie!
<daftykins> FWIW it's 10.04 LTS server on the system i'm performing this on
<Azelphur> AlanBell: where'd you get your pizza from?
<AlanBell> heh, not my pizza
<AlanBell> rory cellan jones
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21427505
<Azelphur> is that UK or US? :P
<AlanBell> https://twitter.com/ruskin147/status/316868099074830336
<Azelphur> lol
<AlanBell> I should think there will be a BBC article about it soon
<AlanBell> especially if he managed to order it using a raspberry pi
<Azelphur> haha aww, they do UK but the nearest store is like 50 miles away
<Azelphur> :<
<mungbean> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uvYxXBMqEOM
<mungbean> lolz remy gaillard
<daftykins> http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2013/3/27/f4942741-eb7b-40ad-b33f-29a993d2cc54.jpg
<daftykins> http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/old90/18951.html
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/7SjOO2H.jpg
<daftykins> here's my lovely new TV and current setup in my new places' lounge
<ali1234> what's that website that you go to and it makes a log all about your computer?
<ali1234> like what browser, what OS, what plugins, etc etc
<ali1234> and then you can send a link
<ali1234> http://supportdetails.com/
<brobostigon> adnams rocks, :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-29
<kvarley> Does anybody know why my regex isn't working? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5657565/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> $morning
<brobostigon> afternoonings popey
<joan>  Trying to register the VirtualBox kernel modules using DKMS                  Error! Your kernel headers for kernel 3.7.0-7-generic cannot be found.
<joan> Please install the linux-headers-3.7.0-7-generic package,
<joan> or use the --kernelsourcedir option to tell DKMS where it's located
<joan> should I install them?
<BigRedS> joan: yeah; you'll need linux-headers-3.7.0-7-generic
<ging> does anyone know what the best way to actually see what is going on with dns resolvers on ubuntu 12.04, resolv.conf points at localhost some it must be running some sort of internal dns server
<BigRedS> ging: what's your actual problem? You suspect it's using the wrong nameservers?
<BigRedS> There's a tool called something like dnstracer that'll show the path followd to get to the authoritative server if that's what you're looking for
<ging> BigRedS: just slow connections which i think are down to dns settings
<BigRedS> it's in the repos
<ging> but i can't actually see them they are managed by something
<ging> i think i may have resolvers from vpns i am not connected to mixed into my settings
<ging> yeah dnstracer shows it trying to use a resolver from a vpn
<ging> i had a vpnc vpn open which is now disconnected
<MartijnVdS> Running just X + minimal browser + VLC on modern hardware = FAST
<MartijnVdS> no heavy X "session" stuff going on
<MartijnVdS> just 3 clients :)
<AlanBell> ging: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/24/dns-in-ubuntu-12-04/
<ging> thank AlanBell
<DJones> Heh, had to laugh at this https://twitter.com/TheLazyDog_/status/317720134707990529/photo/1
<MartijnVdS> laugh, or cry?
<DJones> Probably both to be honest
<popey> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<Sugarat> oh damn.  Now the HDMI sound has packed up
<Sugarat> My HDMI sound output was working earlier, now its stopped..  Can anyone advise please?
<Sugarat> Sugarat
<ali1234> i seriously wish all people who cry about forks would just stop making open source software
<ali1234> also please stop using it too
 * Azelphur points at wayland
 * popey wonders if ali1234 is talking about Northfield & Norwood
<mungbean> baby not stopped whinging snf crying for 4 hrs... give me computers any day
<zleap> lol
<mungbean> trying sleep vids on youtube
<mungbean> and white noise
<popey> we had problems getting sam to sleep, i used to just walk around in his room holding him, pacing back and forth
<popey> actually probably sophie, not sam
<popey> I had a Palm IIIx and read loads of books on it at the time
<mungbean> first 5 mins of peace in 2 hrs since putting this one on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rOJJRQqj8k
<ali1234> yeah that's some classic passive-agressive open source developer BS right there
<mungbean> still have a palm m505 somwehere
<ali1234> imagine if someone packaged northfield and consort for fenris linux
<popey> "Be careful don't watch this if you want drive a car because there is brain waves to make you sleep"
<popey> wat
<ali1234> lol are you watching ASMR videos popey?
<ali1234> i thought i had seen everything on the internet, then i found that
<popey> not me
 * popey points ali1234 at mungbean 
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT7EpmFGpO8
<mungbean> ali1234: thats for pervs
<mungbean> nail and other fetishists
<mungbean> my one id like playing osmos
<mungbean> less asmr , more sopophoric
<mungbean> dont wanna have to resort to whale music
<ali1234> mungbean: that's an easy assumption to make, but you are in fact incorrect as best as i can tell
<popey> ok, just watched some of one where the woman was just whispering and talking about lipstick
<popey> quite odd
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T4pNCuLiywU#!
<ali1234> sgcollins has a good take on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TZdaqmz44M
<popey> oh i like him
<mungbean> ali1234: but did you read the comments?
<mungbean> u is beautful etc
<ali1234> people read youtube comments?
<BigRedS> I use JWZ's thingy that means I'm never even tempted
<mungbean> allegedly it is the "thoracic lock"
<ali1234> incidentally you're supposed to listen to these videos on headphones
<ali1234> if it wasn't obvious :)
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zqCXFVvYvM
<popey> surprised that hasn't had more views
<gebbione>  / #zftalk
<gebbione>  /j #zftalk
<popey> although it set off a reaction in me that i found hard to supress
<popey> that i felt he was doing it wrong âº
<mungbean> did i just watch a video of bacon? why?
<mungbean> overdone it. and dont use a metal utensil
<ali1234> well he's using a frying pan so yeah
<ali1234> the correct way to cook streaky bacon is in the over between two metal trays
<mungbean> i only eat regular unsmoked non streaky
<mungbean> i also found star turtle useful for babies sleeping
<mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cloud-b-7323-ZZ-Twilight-Turtle/dp/B000BNQC58
<mungbean> projects stars onto ceiling, very relaxing
<penguin42> mungbean: didn't fancy a headless teddy then? ( http://www.suck.uk.com/products/teddybearlamp/ )
<popey> ali1234: between two metal trays? like two identical trays stacked with bacon in the middle?
<ali1234> popey: yes
<ali1234> this keeps the bacon perfectly flat :)
<mungbean> how odd penguin42
<mungbean> tryiing womb noises now
<popey> hmm, interesting, never tried that
<popey> seen USians talk about bacon presses which look like old irons
<popey> i will have to try this
<mungbean> i used to grill my bacon but after cooking chickens, i got fat on the element and it just smokes ehrn grill is on :(
<mungbean> btw have you guys tried sugru yet?
<popey> i have some yeah
<ali1234> i use milliput instead
<popey> fixed two iphone charge cables and the clothes airer
<mungbean> http://bruxy.regnet.cz/web/linux/EN/bash-nyan-cat
<mungbean> miiliput is good for scale models
<mungbean> but sugru is rubbery
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-30
<mungbean> need to fix my wellie boot
<mungbean> im mending stuff everywhere atm
<ali1234> i use milliput for repairing connectors mostly
<ali1234> or casings
<mungbean> now listening to uss enterise warp drives noise
<popey> http://bruxy.regnet.cz/web/linux/EN/bash-nyan-cat  cute
<mungbean> wifey will be pleased
<mungbean> yeah, i commented the nyan music first
<ali1234> i should make teletext version
<mungbean> i use clementine with nyan on the EQ moodbar thing
<ali1234> just to get karma
<ali1234> in fact this may work unmodified
<mungbean> the guy who made nyan cat looks like joey from omg twin bro
<mungbean> http://popgoestheweek.com/2011/04/pop-profile-the-brains-behind-the-viral-phenomenon-nyan-cat/
<mungbean> youtubing on chrome was making my fan spin, so...
<mungbean> /usr/bin/play -n -c1 synth whitenoise lowpass -1 120 lowpass -1 120 lowpass -1 120 gain +14
<mungbean> no need for the engine hum video now!
<ali1234> http://hujackus.altervista.org/uploads/ConwayMatrix.swf
<mungbean> whatever happened to novacut?
<popey> still under development
<mungbean> havent heard in ages
<popey> they post videos and screenshots on G+ now and then
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~novacut/+archive/stable?field.series_filter=raring
<popey> stable release yesterday
<mungbean> openshot already got 18k$
<ali1234> play synth has type "brownnoise"
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure that's not a real type of noise
<mungbean> dont want to click
<mungbean> is it a fart?
<ali1234> apparently it's brownian noise
<mungbean> after watching skyfall i want one of these http://www.airfix.com/airfix-products/aircraft/helicopters/a14101-agustawestland-merlin-hc3-148-a14101/
<shauno> you'll never fit in there :/
<mungbean> its quite a big kit..
<mungbean> http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=409&t=37430
<mungbean> so much detail.
<alexcockell> Does anyone know of a reliable IRC chanel in use re South Korea?  Sounds like it's all kicking off..
<popey> alexcockell: _south_ korea?
<mungbean> twitter?
<mungbean> North Korea's leader Kim Jong-un has ordered missile units to prepare to strike US mainland as a British tour operator was warned that the "outbreak of war probably only hours away"
<alexcockell> Popey - yep
<popey> fun times
<mungbean> "fun"
<alexcockell> NK have declared war on SK and USA.
<alexcockell> Went to "state of war" a few minutes ago... on BBC and Reuters..
<alexcockell> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/30/us-korea-north-war-idUSBRE92T00020130330
<mungbean> only 1 more hour of sitting perfectly still to placate baby. need a drink...cant move
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVie_sWCGig meanwhile is fun
<popey> i cant see NK doing anything substantial
<popey> sounds like political posturing
<alexcockell> BBC4 airing Disco at the BBC...
<mungbean> why are you all still awake?
<popey> think i might make home made pizza with the kids tomorrow
<mungbean> made playdough yesterday \o/
<popey> heh, wifey used to do that
<ali1234> i'm making annoying noises with play
<mungbean> lol sorry bout that
<alexcockell> Mungbean - Always up late on BBC4 - their music programming and all that...
<mungbean> i spent ages 8-16 making annoying noises on my home vomputers
<mungbean> argh typing with 1 finger
<mungbean> hmm theres 4 pages missing from the middle of this book. this is why i stoppfd going to library. snd the fact that they never have books u need, and they are sticky..
<ali1234> lol
<popey> morning
<kvarley> popey: \0
<kvarley> popey: oh btw, re: my questions the other day - my nexus 10 dispatched \0/
<popey> huzzah
<SuperMatt> anyone's software updater getting stuck here? Preparing to replace linux-image-3.8.0-15-generic 3.8.0-15.25 (using .../linux-image-3.8.0-15-generic_3.8.0-15.25_amd64.deb) ...
<popey> yes
<popey> known bug
<popey> kill it then do "sudo dpkg --configure -a" then "sudo apt-get -f install"
<SuperMatt> khaaaan!
<SuperMatt> thanks :)
<SuperMatt> it worked \o/
<popey> of course âº
<SuperMatt> ... yes
<MooDoo_> hello all
<MooDoo> how is everyone today?
<popey> http://imgur.com/gallery/UFx8IzG like that
<kvarley> hehe
<MooDoo> lol :) shame I'm at work lol
<kvarley> Is it possible for me to send a link to somebody via email so when they click it, it will open a folder on their computer?
<mh0> not seen that done before
<kvarley> I think file:///home/user/ may work
<kvarley> Only issue is that it's likely to open in their browser, not file manager
<mh0> it'd open it in the web browser, but sure
<mh0> yeah, i assumed you wanted it in file manager
<kvarley> ideally I would
<kvarley> No idea how that would work tho
<kvarley> There are apt urls tho
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> hello MooDoo
<brobostigon> 18:15, bbc1, new Dr Who.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i'm ready for it, hopefully I'll get home from work in time :D
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> or it will be, iplayer to the rescue,
<MooDoo> lol sky+ :)
<brobostigon> that works. :)
<kvarley> Is there a way to get apt-get dump to only dump package names, not descriptions and dependencies, etc ?
<BigRedS> apt-get dump? I've never come across that
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: what do you want to accomplish
<MooDoo> won't something like this work?  Although never tried it dpkg --get-selections > installed-software
<kvarley> BigRedS: Dumps the package lists
<kvarley> MooDoo: I want to get packages I haven't installed :)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I want to output a list of all the packages in the repositories
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Just the package names, no other info
<kvarley> At the moment I'm using apt-get dump and regex
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: why do you want to do that?
<MartijnVdS> !xyproblem
<MooDoo> wwo that'll be a big list
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: To replicate the package databases for use in another project
<MooDoo> kvarley: try this http://askubuntu.com/questions/23045/how-to-list-currently-not-installed-packages
<kvarley> MooDoo: Thanks :)
<kvarley> What's the deal with using commands listed on AskUbuntu in projects? Are they licensed?
<MooDoo> you can't license a command if it's available in the is
<MooDoo> os
<kvarley> MooDoo: I mean, if I take the command listed on that askubuntu page and use it in a project. What do I have  to do? Attribution?
<kvarley> Ah
<kvarley> Attribution require
<MooDoo> I would of said nothing, if the command they are using is available any way, then you don't need to do anything
<MooDoo> kvarley: you could of figured out the command yourself any way
<kvarley> I'll include attribution all the same, can't hurt
<MooDoo> ok
<kvarley> Thanks MooDoo
<MooDoo> yw!
<MooDoo> It's oh so quiet shhhhhh shhhhhh
<kvarley> What do you think about the OpenShot kickstarter?
<MooDoo> not seen it
<SavageWolf> Uh, anyone know what the channel for getting help about Ubuntu 13.04 is, or where there is a list of Ubuntu based channels?
<MooDoo> isn't #ubuntu one?
<SavageWolf> I'd assume there'd be a separate one for alpha/beta releases.
<MooDoo> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/chat
<SavageWolf> Have they actually decided what to do with 13.04 yet, anyway?
<MooDoo> SavageWolf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<SavageWolf> Ah, #ubuntu+1, it seems.
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> wow did I really create my launchpad account in 2006?  blimey
 * SuperEngineer plans evening... Dr. Who - followed by [turn off lights & plug in headphones] Amnesia, The Dark Descent
<SuperEngineer> [aka "The Dark Descent" .... into madness!]
<popey> not played that yet
<popey> might give it a go
<SuperEngineer> it's cheap on steam at the moment.... tried it last night - verdict: it's good
<MooDoo> I just downloaded a game on steam, seems strange running it on ubuntu :)
<SavageWolf> I keep buying games that work only on Windows, but can never be bothered restarting to run them.
<SavageWolf>  Or firing up POL, or anything like that.
<MooDoo> SavageWolf: does the new bioshock work in ubuntu?
<SavageWolf> I don't play Bioshock, so I'm not sure.
<SuperEngineer> MooDoo: if you have Steam - it will tell you in the games description
<SuperEngineer> in the system reuirements section
<SuperEngineer> *requirements
<MooDoo> SuperEngineer: ok thanks :D
<popey> \o/
 * popey is making pizza dough, flapjack and home made butter with the kids
<MartijnVdS> popey: and then tonight.. The Doctor!
<SavageWolf> Oh, is Doctor Who on tonight?
<MartijnVdS> new series starts tonight
<SuperEngineer> SavageWolf: I think you can safely assume.... YEES
<SuperEngineer> [& hi MartijnVdS]
<MartijnVdS> \o SuperEngineer
<SavageWolf> Ooh, I did not know the dates and such. I should set the recorder thing for it.
 * MartijnVdS has a proper (tiny tiny) photo studio now
<MartijnVdS> with light boxes and everything
 * SuperEngineer hunts for a "tiny tiny" to send MartijnVdS to photograph ;)
<SuperEngineer> SavageWolf: BBC1, 18.15
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: photo studio?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I just purchased a lastolite backdrop :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I just purchased 2 "box" flashes :)
<MartijnVdS> going to spend tonight taking pics of my brothers' new beer bottles :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: It's my birthday in april i'm hoping to get a westcott softbox for my speedlight :D
<MartijnVdS> Dear Unity
<MartijnVdS> Why don't you auto-raise when I configure you to auto-raise?
<MartijnVdS> also, why do you reset that setting every time I log in?
<SavageWolf> Dear Nautilus 3.6: I hate you.
<brobostigon> any suggestions for a html gui for monitoring hostapd ?
<MooDoo> will nagios do it?
<brobostigon> good question, but i was initally thinking of something simpler.
<daubers> Afternoon
<MooDoo> howdy daubers
 * daubers waits for things to upload to github
<DJones> Yay, David Tennant & Billie Piper to return to Dr Who for the 50th anniversary special
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> DW-60
<SuperEngineer> It's Dr. Who time right now folks
 * popey goes offline till he's watched it
<brobostigon> :)
 * AlanBell needs to change wifi SSID
<brobostigon> lol
<darrell09thomas> anyway i can make ubuntu 12.10 look like ubuntu 10.04 anyone help
<AlanBell> darrell09thomas: in what way?
<darrell09thomas> layout and theme
<AlanBell> oh, you probably want gnome panel then
<AlanBell> !notunity
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 11.10 and higher use the !Unity desktop environment by default.  To use GNOME Shell instead, install the "gnome-shell" package and investigate "gnome-tweak-tool".  For GNOME Fallback mode, which is similar to GNOME 2, install "gnome-panel". Both packages will place entries in the Sessions dropdown.
<AlanBell> gnome shell is pretty cool
<darrell09thomas> installed gnome panel still the same unless im doing some thing wrong
<AlanBell> you have to choose it in the lightdm login screen
<darrell09thomas> ok thanks
<AlanBell> unity works OK too if you get used to it
<darrell09thomas> how do i get lightdm login screen up
<AlanBell> log out ;)
<darrell09thomas> still cant change layout and theme after installing gnome
<darrell09thomas> ive got ubuntu 12.01 installed and want to change the layout and theme to the way ubuntu 10.04 lokks and runs
<AlanBell> did you choose gnome fallback on the login screen?
<AlanBell> gnome classic I think
<darrell09thomas> there aint no option to change gnome fallback
<AlanBell> what do you have in the session chooser thing?
<darrell09thomas> nothing just my login name and password or remote login or guess login
<MartijnVdS> Doctor Who++
<darrell09thomas> theres no session chooser
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: nice chamber redesign, :)
<AlanBell> darrell09thomas: ubuntu logo next to your name on the lightdm screen
<AlanBell> it is a clickable button
<DJones> Ugh, I like chocolate and chilli, but not together http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-21981063
<darrell09thomas> no ubuntu logo on login session
<AlanBell> might be a cog thing on 12.10, if you are in the password box and hit tab it should move focus to it
<darrell09thomas> ill try again be back in 2 mins cant i do the login screen change from 12.10 like you could in ubuntu 10.04 in settings administator then login screen this ubuntu 12.10 nothing like ubuntu 10.04
<AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/81161/how-to-remove-session-entries-from-lightdm
<AlanBell> yeah, unity is quite different from 2 panel gnome
<AlanBell> once you choose your desktop environment it should remember it
<darrell09thomas> right changed the login screen to gnome classic logged in and all i got on the top panel isapplications places thats it no setting and that ]#
<AlanBell> yeah, it isn't as configurable as the old gnome panel was
<AlanBell> it is getting better though, but all the effort is going into unity and gnome-shell
<darrell09thomas> thanks AlanBell for your help cheers m8
<AlanBell> if you lock the screen in a guest session how do you unlock it?
<DJones> !bug 1063711
<lubotu3> bug 1022858 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1063711 Guest session asks for password when switch back to it" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022858
<AlanBell> huh
<AlanBell> so suspend/resume from a guest session is broken
<AlanBell> which is what I actually did
<DJones> Looks like a 9 month old big though
<DJones> s/big/bug/
<AlanBell> Bug 951000
<lubotu3> bug 951000 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "disable guest session screen lock using gsettings" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/951000
<AlanBell> well that is completely broken then isn't it
<popey> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> popey: not watching The Voice then? :)
<popey> MartijnVdS: i have a child-unit leaning up against me watching it
<brobostigon> will normalish shops be open tmrw afternoon. ?
<popey> no
<brobostigon> ok. thank you popey
<brobostigon> how about monday?
<popey> yes
<brobostigon> good.
<brobostigon> pubs will be open tmrw  though?
<popey> no idea
<brobostigon> ok.
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<brobostigon> evening bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ping
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> Howdy popey
<AlanBell> evening bigcalm
<bigcalm> How does one organise an ubuntu-uk event around here?
<bigcalm> Aha :)
 * AlanBell has been putting up bookshelves
 * AlanBell wonders if they will stay up when books get put on them
<bigcalm> AlanBell: how stereotypically mannish
<AlanBell> yeah, got my man badge
<AlanBell> and bought a new drill for the occasion too
 * bigcalm feels an impromptu #ubuntu-uk-meeting might be in order
<AlanBell> power tools \o/
<bigcalm> Haha, more power!
<AlanBell> so, events, what did you have in mind?
<AlanBell> we do need to talk about the 13.04 launch, such as it is
<bigcalm> AlanBell: did you see my tweet from earlier today?
<popey> RAT \o/
<Laney> in me kitchen
<bigcalm> AlanBell: it happens that I'm getting married later this year. You might have heard. And people tend to have a wee party for such things before the event. I thought a good place to have one would be on the RAT. Then I thought, why not make it into an ubuntu-uk outing?
<popey> This sounds like an excellent plan.
<bigcalm> Looking at the 2 dates in September
<bigcalm> popey: glad you agree :)
<popey> #action bigcalm do everything
<popey> #endmeeting
<bigcalm> Ha!
<bigcalm> Is it normal to organise ones own stag do?
<popey> i had 3
<bigcalm> o.O
<AlanBell> excellent idea
<bigcalm> Link for lazies: http://www.watercressline.co.uk/product.php/10/real-ale-train-r-a-t/cf8160dadf2141514c9ecaf9824d3aca
<AlanBell> 14th or 21st
<bigcalm> Would be good to pick a date that more people can attend
<bigcalm> Yep
<AlanBell> 21st would probably be best for me and theopensourcerer
<bigcalm> October 5th at a pinch, but I need to then save pennies for the honeymoon in October (we're off to Belgium for a week)
<AlanBell> he has two offspring birthdays in september
<AlanBell> must be something about new year
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> popey: when is good for you?
<popey> hmm
<bigcalm> Dave2: RAT?
 * popey shrugs, 14 & 21st are both empty
<Dave2> dunno
<Dave2> not sure if I'm doing anything in Ocrober
<Dave2> er
<Dave2> October
<Dave2> or is this the September one
<Dave2> I don't currently have anything in my calendar for then
<Dave2> however I'm just leaving to go to the pub
<bigcalm> Dave2: looks to be 21st September. Think about it
<bigcalm> czajkowski: you should come join us on the RAT this year (and not be ill). Bring Jon!
<bigcalm> Whom else? A couple of Bryns maybe
<bigcalm> I think christel will be busy around that time :S
<popey> see if aq is around?
<bigcalm> And Adam Sweet
 * bigcalm likes these spur of the moment beer arrangements. Only 6 months in advance
<AlanBell> all the books are on the shelves and none have fallen down \o/
<bigcalm> Well done that man
<AlanBell> 2 small shelves to put up in the kitchen still
<popey> Neat: http://imgur.com/gallery/apQd5
<bigcalm> Funky:
<AlanBell> very nice
<bigcalm> Ale all gone :(
<brobostigon> :(
<bigcalm> Only wine left in the house now
<bigcalm> Le sigh
<brobostigon> same as here.
<bigcalm> Oop. I'm being told to get off the puta and go watch On Her Maj's Secret Service with my better half
<brobostigon> lol, woops.
<bigcalm> Toodles :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: would be grateful if you could create an event for 21st September :)
<AlanBell> sure
<bigcalm> Cheers :)
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/
<mungbean> remember the clocks tonight boys
<brobostigon> tmrw night.
<mungbean> what day is today>
<mungbean> satday
<popey> tonight
<mungbean> hence put them forward now
<brobostigon> BST starts tmrw, ah, ok, brain burp. good point.
<mungbean> my shift ends 1.30, which is really 2.30, then the boy will wake at 7.30-8am :(
<mungbean> that girl on itv looks like an alien
<mungbean> head on a stick
 * brobostigon is watching QI. :)
<mungbean> anyone else have these problems on unity? http://ubuntuone.com/3froHmRtrGfH7dgWq1Wb1p
<mungbean> two nautilus icons - only one has the windows
<mungbean> and 2) launch picasa, get the wine icon and you can't interact with the picasa icon
<popey> what release of ubuntu is that?
<popey> you probably have some duplication in desktop files in /usr/share/applications and ~/.local/share/applications
<popey> or its a bug in bamf
<mungbean> 1204
<mungbean> the nautilus icons actually are different
<mungbean> gonna just remove it from launcher and see what happebs
<popey> yeah, remove both, start nautilus and then lock it to the launcher again
<ali1234> i had problems like that constantly when i used unity
<popey> i thought we'd fixed most of those
<ali1234> like i keep telling you
<ali1234> you can never fix it
<popey> i know we SRU'd some updates to bamf in 12.04 some time back to fix this stuff
<popey> hence "most"
<ali1234> there will always be another app new that you don't special case yet
<popey> nauilus and wine are hardly new apps
<popey> and are well known
<ali1234> wine isn't an app
<popey> YKWIM
<ali1234> it's a runtime for multiple different apps, all of which need to be special cased
<ali1234> the same with java
<mungbean> docky never had this problem
<ali1234> i've seen this happen in OS X
<mungbean> trying some one handed gimping , its quite hard
<ali1234> wat
<popey> baby in hand I imagine
<popey> I used to do one handed ircing with sam in hand years ago
 * popey goes round changing clocks
<daubers> is it that time already?
<czajkowski> hmm when is the RAT ?
<czajkowski> bigcalm: popey ^^
<AlanBell> czajkowski: 21st september
<czajkowski> cool
<czajkowski> will poke when I'm back later in the week to Jon and see if he's up for it
<mungbean> ali1234: fruits of my gimping: http://ubuntuone.com/6fCKDiQDywLRAnOEttzO2v
<ali1234> oh noes engine failure
<mungbean> pilot failure too as there's no pilot on that model
<ali1234> pilot got out to restart the engine?
<mungbean> the kit contained no pilot :(
<mungbean> its a tiny little thing irl
<ali1234> if you have engine failure in one of those can you restart it by autorotation or are you basically screwed?
<mungbean> hmm i was watching a programme about it last year
<mungbean> most issues were normally fire. and they didn't wear parachutes because it encouraged them to bale
<mungbean> maybe i should add some smoke coming out
<ali1234> http://www.flickr.com/photos/34076827@N00/4587719364
<mungbean> wowza
<mungbean> they've shuffled some planes around at the raf museum, hence i must pay a visit again
<mungbean> one of my favourite places
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-31
<BigRedS> mungbean: in London?
<mungbean> BigRedS: yes, the one in hendon
<BigRedS> ooh, what's changed? I go there relatively frequently
<BigRedS> A good friend used to work there, but I've now lost track of what happens and just turn up from time to time
<mungbean> history of flight hall has gloster meteor and a different sopwith in there
<mungbean> the me109 has moved
<mungbean> judging by friend on fb photos
<mungbean> not sure what else changed
<BigRedS> aha, detective work!
<penguin42> Manchester science museum has a fairly nice flight hall
<mungbean> hmm, on oxford road?
<mungbean> i studied in the maths tower(now demoloished) which was opposite, but only recall the egyptology stuff and the early gospel fragments , but that was 20 yrs ago now
<penguin42> ah, no the Science Museum on Deansgate
<mungbean> ah ok
<mungbean> didn't venture that far often
<penguin42> mungbean: When were you there?
<mungbean> 93-96
<penguin42> mungbean: Oh I was doing my postgrad then
<mungbean> aka the good old days
<mungbean> what in, penguin42 ?
<penguin42> CS
<mungbean> i was maths/cs undegrad
<penguin42> oh, if you did any of the 1st year electronic courses I might have Demo'd to you then
<mungbean> don't think i did
<mungbean> lived in fallowfield?
<penguin42> nah, I lived on the north side with family
<penguin42> mungbean: Maths tower is long gone; it's now https://plus.google.com/photos/118251468822440261663/albums/5323474428500984577/5323477385642443922
<mungbean> quite a difference!
<penguin42> yep, they even built it the right way around
<mungbean> but what would i chain my bike to:?
<mungbean> depressing to think its almost 2am
<penguin42> I think they put some down the side between the scan building and the cs
<knightwise> hey everyone
<MartijnVdS> Goeiemorgen :)
<knightwise> hey martijn !
<knightwise> hoe gaat ie
<MooDoo> hello all
<knightwise> hey everyone
<MooDoo> hello knightwise
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> Only "ufraw" in raring is up to date enough to be able to work with 6D raw files
<MartijnVdS> rawtherapee's internal dcraw copy is too old :(
<MartijnVdS> *shakes fist*
<MooDoo> I've had to stick with photoshop for raw, don't like ufraw or rawtherapee or darktables :(
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I don't understand how darktable works.. I can't get it to save out a .jpg
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: thats another reason i'm using photoshop lo
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: rawtherapee and ufraw are fine.. all I do is crop, rotate a little, and fix colours :)
<MartijnVdS> my brother is the photoshop wizard :)
<MooDoo> lI'm using it now :)
<jacobw> Spring forward
<MooDoo> indeed
<kvarley> How can I output just the package name and dependencies with aptitude. I can't see a depends flag on this help page: http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s04s01.html#secDisplayFormat
<MooDoo> kvarley: apt-rdepends?
<MooDoo> or what about apt-cache depends <package_name>
<kvarley> Thanks MooDoo
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperEngineer> boo!
<brobostigon> morning SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> morninks
 * SuperEngineer spent last night watching Dr. Who - then playing Amnesia [The Dark Descent]...
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: now watch the "Blink" episode ;)
<SuperEngineer> ..& finding out that headphones no longer work on anything being out to by PC
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: the "Blink" episode?
 * SuperEngineer also found out that Anmesia, which was Â£3.95 on Friday is already back up to full price
<SuperEngineer> made I laugh!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blink_(Doctor_Who)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ah... the Weeeping Angels...  I remember that one.
<SuperEngineer> that was an episode extraordinaire !
<SuperEngineer> Whatever you do, don't even blink!
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS: did you watch the game against Romania? Van Persie finally surpassed Cruyff.
<SuperEngineer> In fact, the phtrase "whatever you do, don't close your eyes... don't even blink" applied to the whole UK last night
<SuperEngineer> .... they stole an hour from ius whilst we blinked or slept
<GentileBen> Actually, I was awake at 00:59.
<SuperEngineer> but they hadn't stolen the hour then!
<GentileBen> I was like, "wtf, my tablet's time is fucked. Oh wait...the evil NWO/Reptilian/ZOG DST conspiracy."
<SuperEngineer> apparently that happen at 2am
<MooDoo> is it 2?  thought it was 1am
<SuperEngineer> [which means ya tablets got a naff time mngr btw
<GentileBen> No it doesn't...
<GentileBen> It means it follows the goddamn time specification for DST.
<SuperEngineer> MooDoo: yes 1 becoame 2  ;)
<GentileBen> The time is supposed to change from 00:59 to 02:00.
<GentileBen> And it -did-.
<SuperEngineer> we all blinked! look what happened!
<GentileBen> Don't blame the blinking - blame the NWO and their army of Time Nazis.
<SuperEngineer> [can be very disconcerting after playing Amnesia all night]
<SuperEngineer> GentileBen: you - are - no - fun
 * SuperEngineer sides with Timelord optoin - not the other
<SuperEngineer> *option
<KrimZon> Time Nazis... that's the perfect name for the badguys in my game, Don't Forget Your Duty To Vietnam While Honouring Your Medals In 1942
 * SuperEngineer puts gun to head
<GentileBen> KrimZon, sounds like a potential AAA game.
<GentileBen> Make sure you add lean support.
<GentileBen> It's important I can lean from behind fat Viet people in that game.
<KrimZon> it will feature realistic rendering features such as Filled Polygon Graphics
<KrimZon> and support Duck And Cover mechanics
<KrimZon> press X and your soldier crouches down and hides under a blanket
<GentileBen> Will it feature real-time...weapon change?
 * SuperEngineer is proud that Ubuntu copes with all my connections [nVidia card goes to a KVM switch used in reverse, to the 5.1 sound system, HDMI to the TV]
<SuperEngineer> ....but annoyed that he can't find reason for headphone death [phones checked and working]
<SuperEngineer> ...the answer eludes me for now... but I have faith ;)
 * SuperEngineer keeps hunting through various optons
<SuperEngineer> *options
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning
 * SuperEngineer wites note to self... "next time, get a theatre sound system with a damn headphone socket!"
 * daubers sets up squid to break his reddit habit
<MooDoo> :)  set me one up as well for facebook, google+ twiiter and any work url :)
<AlanBell> afternoon all
<AlanBell> dad has been getting GPU lockups on 12.04 recently
<AlanBell> wonder if an upgrade to 12.10 would make a difference
<MooDoo> hello AlanBell
<AlanBell> hi
<MooDoo> only one way to try it AlanBell :)
<AlanBell> yeah, upgrading it now
<AlanBell> should take a few hours
<MooDoo> 12.04 is lts isn't it?
<MooDoo> ignore that
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> so I kind of suspect the hardware is failing
<MooDoo> boo :(
 * SuperEngineer smiles smugly at remembering to do weekly [off disk] backup despite it being Easter
<MooDoo> that reminds me, i must take my offsite backup disk OFFSITE lol
<SuperEngineer> MooDoo: agreed :D
<penguin42> huh, yeuch remembered what I have to do today - set up a camera to watch my boilers status display; anyone know of a good flexible video recorder prog that can record off webcam - I think I'll probably make it record over sshfs
<MooDoo> penguin42: GUVCViewer ?
<MooDoo> penguin42: sorry make that guvcview lol
<penguin42> hmm thanks, I'll look it up
<MooDoo> it's one of the two and should be availble in the repos
<penguin42> I could do with getting some temperature sensors to wire up and record at the same time
<dogmatic69_> anyone know how I can have cacti reporting (server is at home) for a cloud server?
<dogmatic69_> I think I need something like ssh tunnel but not sure how to do it securely
<dogmatic69_> They have this how to http://docs.cacti.net/howto:ssh_tunnels_unix
<dogmatic69_> I dont have 3 server/pc's though
<penguin42> hasn't looked at cacti for years
<dogmatic69_> I think I got a new tutorial to follow
<dogmatic69_> seems to make more sense so far
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: Right, have you done ssh port forwarding before?
<dogmatic69_> nope
<dogmatic69_> I am following this one now http://www.playingwithwire.com/2007/06/monitoring-remote-hosts-with-cacti/
<penguin42> ok, try ssh forwarding with something simpler first - it's actually really useful
<dogmatic69_> I have read many times how awesome it is :D
<dogmatic69_> With this command: ssh -N -L 16000:127.0.0.1:161 snmp@server1.xyz.net
<dogmatic69_> Does that mean localhost:16000 is really server1.xyz.net?
<MartijnVdS> that means that when you connect to localhost:16000, it'll put you through to whatever server1.xyz.net thinks "port 161 of 127.0.0.1" means ;)
<dogmatic69_> k
<dogmatic69_> how do you 'stop' a tunnel?
<MartijnVdS> kill the ssh connection, or using <enter>~C
<MartijnVdS> (see ssh manpage)
<dogmatic69_> its started with & so I guess in htop will work
<MartijnVdS> <enter>~# lists forwarded connections
<MartijnVdS> kill the "Ssh" process, that should do it
<bigcalm[mob]> Afternoon peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm[mob]: you're the mob now?
<bigcalm[mob]> Hehe
<bigcalm[mob]> I'm on my mob. Visiting Hayley's parents for Easter lunch. There are 14 of us here
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS: would that not kill all ssh connections to?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: only if you have multiplexing turned on :)
<dogmatic69_> :O
<dogmatic69_> idk what that is even
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: you should kill the ssh that you used to set up the tunnel
<bigcalm[mob]> killall -9 ssh ?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm[mob]: nah, that kills ALL ssh clients
<MartijnVdS> it's the nuclear option :)
<MartijnVdS> if you started it with "&" "jobs" should show it
<bigcalm[mob]> Sorry, I've walked in to a conversation part way through
<dogmatic69_> as in 'jobs' is a terminal command?
<MartijnVdS> and kill %X should kill it (X = number of job.. so kill %3 if it's listed as the third job"
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: sÃ­
<dogmatic69_> ah. so its not running then...
<dogmatic69_> :/
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: don't ssh &
<MartijnVdS> you'll want ssh -f if you really want backgrounding (because of the password prompts etc.)
<MartijnVdS> man ssh \o/
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS: well i will use a pwdless key for login
<MartijnVdS> sure but still :)
<dogmatic69_> its just for cacti
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: read the docs for "-f", it's really cool
<dogmatic69_> ah, seems smart.
<dogmatic69_> so that will wait for anything and once logged in disappear
<MartijnVdS> yes
<dogmatic69_> hmm, think its working now
<dogmatic69_> jobs still empty though.
<dogmatic69_> snmpwalk -v 1 -c public tcp:localhost:16000 shows data so I assume the tunnel is working
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<dogmatic69_> unless I looped the ssh back to localhost somehow :D
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: look for the hostname in SNMP output :)
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS: its correct \o/
<dogmatic69_> thanks. Trying to add it on cacti now
<dogmatic69_> ohhh
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: As for security, ssh tunnelling is pretty good - just make sure you know what lets you go where
<SuperEngineer> Urgent request: running out of things to do to avoid firing up works laptop & reading emails & installing tech stuff.... help!
<penguin42> youtube!
<SuperEngineer> phew!
<dogmatic69_> reddit.com
<SuperEngineer> thanks penguin42
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You do have a Raring install to test don't you?
<SuperEngineer> ooo... life is looking better already ;)
<shauno> you should try accidentally leaving the work laptop at work sometimes.  it's fantastic :)
<shauno> and completely OT, this gem from irishrail .. Don't forget the clocks have gone back so check your time before you travel
<shauno> explains a lot
<SuperEngineer> shauno: my office is unfortunately my home & I travel to customer locations around UK - so the trouble is - I did as you suugested  ;)
<StevenR_> penguin42: re: our conversation last weekend on my parents crashing box with 3.2.0-39, here's the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1160582
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1160582 in linux (Ubuntu) "Crash using 3.2.0-39-generic" [High,Confirmed]
<SuperEngineer> but don't worry - I'm currently very busy doing as others have suggested [plus, just realised, Madagacar is on TV] :D
<penguin42> StevenR_: Huh erm only vaguely remember
<SuperEngineer> *Madagascar
<penguin42> StevenR_: I don't see the backtrace in any of the logs attached
<StevenR_> penguin42: WifiSyslog.txt ?
<penguin42> oh - hadn't thought it was a wifi specific
<StevenR_> penguin42: it isn't. The box doesn't even have wifi
<StevenR_> penguin42: I don't know why ubuntu-bug named /var/log/syslog to wifisyslog.txt
<penguin42> StevenR_: So there are a few separate oops in there - I think the irqbalance one is the first in that boot
<penguin42> StevenR_: How often do these happen?
<StevenR_> several times per day
<StevenR_> penguin42: 3-4 times, looking at my mail history
<penguin42> StevenR_: OK, time to gather a few of the oops messages, in particular try and see if they are similar each time or different; I've just added a comment showing the two I extracted from your logs - if the 1st one on each boot is always the irqbalance then that narrows it down a bit
<StevenR_> upto 10 times
<StevenR_> (the box sends me a mail on boot)
<penguin42> if they're different every time....well life gets hard
<StevenR_> ok, I'll go and pull the logs and see
<^aDaM> Anyone know if 8.10 will still work? I have it on disc here Desk Edition 32Bit.
<^aDaM> But when I installed inside windows via Windows Desktop
<^aDaM> and rebooted it.. it came to the loading bar of Ubuntu start up..
<^aDaM> and got stuck half way :/
<penguin42> well it won't self destruct - but it's not maintained, and may not work on recent hardware/VM
<^aDaM> Whys that? I have disc space.
<penguin42> well new hardware may do new tricks (as might new windows) and it might be that there has to be added support for it - use a recent Ubuntu
<^aDaM> Yes true say, I have 8.10 :( no copie of latest..
<^aDaM> I need blank discs.
<penguin42> got a USB thumb drive?
<^aDaM> Is there any other ways??
<^aDaM> Yes I have USB HDD Maxtor 250GB LaCiE Brick.
<^aDaM> Current has a few photo's
<penguin42> do you have a completely spare one - that you can wipe?
<^aDaM> Yes.
<^aDaM> USB HDD :)
<penguin42> hmm ok, never done it with a big brick; with a little USB flash drive you can put the Ubuntu image onto there and boot from it (see the install instructions for how)
<^aDaM> I have tried that loads :( UNetBootin, LinuxLiveUSB etc..
<^aDaM> I can't seem to get it to boot via USB has errors
<^aDaM> Can I boot and do a fresh install on my HDD? so when I boot it asks when HDD to boot ?
<^aDaM> Only  when the USB HDD is turned on an active before turning the PC on.
<StevenR_> penguin42: annoyingly, the logs have rotated out now. No more evidence to prove/disprove your theory
<penguin42> StevenR_: Just add a comment next time you manage to tie a couple down; ideally you want ones that have nothing in the taint markers  - i.e. are the first crash for that boot
<StevenR_> penguin42: as far as I can tell though, each crash is fatal for the box and requires a reboot
<StevenR_> (based on what Dad has told me)
<penguin42> StevenR_: Well he wouldn't necessarily see anything else going into the logs after it goes bad
<StevenR_> I don't understand what you mean there
<penguin42> StevenR_: You might get a few oops recorded in the log every time it apparently crashes - the 2nd ones may just be fall out from the 1st
<StevenR_> I see. I can discount those because there won't be a reboot between them and the previous
<StevenR_> ?
<penguin42> yeh and also perhaps if it says 'Tainted' in the oops then it's generally something bad happened
<penguin42> (* unless it's tainting for another reason)
<brobostigon> beer fest at local visit, :)
<^aDaM-iPhone> Hey all got a fresh install of Ubuntu 8.10 running via my External USB Hard Drive, can I now update via the internet to the latest version or would I have to upgrade one-by-one to the latest?
<^aDaM-iPhone> Just gone on to Update Manager and says I can upgrade to 9.04!! shell i update and keep doing so untill I get to the latest?
<Myrtti> why did you install 8.10?
<Myrtti> couldn't get others to install?
<Myrtti> (reading backlog now)
<^aDaM-iPhone> Says now when I upgrade, "Could not download all repository indexes"
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<^aDaM-iPhone> Well I have no blank discs or any way of booting the new latest distro due to problems bootin via usb etc...
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: you have to go the slow way around until 10.04, then you can go to 12.04 in one go
<MartijnVdS> if only you had started out with 8.04 ;)
<^aDaM-iPhone> awww :( this sucks lol I need latest version help...
<^aDaM-iPhone> Can I not boot via my USB HDD and install on it to
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: so upgrade from 8.10 to 9.04 to 9.10 to 10.04 to 12.04
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: the EOLUpgrades page tells you how to adjust sources.list for upgrades to work
<StevenR_> penguin42: thanks for looking at that bug, I'll speak to Dad and see if he can run with the faulty kernel for a couple of days and get some more info
<^aDaM-iPhone> so I can do this now from 8.10?
<^aDaM-iPhone> Can anyone help us do it please
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: yes, that page lists how to upgrade from 8.10 to 9.04
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: and all the others I listed
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: it's just going to take a while
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<^aDaM-iPhone> Thanks ever so much martin will give this a go :) ah well coffee it is then an its the ony way for me im cheap and wont buy 1 single blank cdr lol
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: at least you won't be bored tonight ;)
<^aDaM-iPhone> How lon ruffly will it take?
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: how fast is your internet connection?
<^aDaM-iPhone> haha yeah I sure wont
<^aDaM-iPhone> Its 6mbits adsl with talktalk not the best
<MartijnVdS> I'd say 30 minutes to an hour per version
<MartijnVdS> make that 1-1.5 hours at that speed :)
<^aDaM-iPhone> cool :)
<^aDaM-iPhone> lol great :
<^aDaM-iPhone> I have found a better way ;) takes less time and its a quick 2, 3 stage processe :)
<^aDaM-iPhone> Since I am having issues booting via my USB Device Stick I am going to use USBNetBootin
<^aDaM-iPhone> Boot from my USB HDD and install fresh latest ;)
<^aDaM-iPhone> Wish me luck! x
<^aDaM-iPhone> Ok so my USB HDD now has Unbuntu 12.04 on there ready for booting :) using Linux Live USB Creator.
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<^aDaM-iPhone> I can do a 100% install on this USB HDD right using LL USB Creator? My primary master internal hdd is on Windows XP that I am on now doing the copying.
<kvarley> How can I insert a space with tr? \s and ' ' don't work
<brobostigon> some good beers there, very enjoyable, :)
<^aDaM-iPhone> So I just got a error when booting: http://i47.tinypic.com/2a62n9j.jpg
<^aDaM-iPhone> :(
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: is that booting the USB disk, or the destination system?
<^aDaM-iPhone> What have I done wront I dont get it the USB HDD is formatted then did linux live
<^aDaM-iPhone> its booting my USB HDD
<^aDaM-iPhone> External Hard Drie
<^aDaM-iPhone> Drive
<MartijnVdS> then unetbootin/usb-creator-gtk didn't write a proper boot sector
<MartijnVdS> because afaik that uses syslinux, not grub?
<MartijnVdS> so.. are you sure you're booting from USB?
<^aDaM-iPhone> Not a USB sticm or pen drive a USB powered Har Drive external lacie maxtor 250gb brick that was frmatted
<MartijnVdS> that shouldn't be a problem
<^aDaM-iPhone> ah i see ok so what do i use for tbat grub??
<^aDaM-iPhone> unetbootin wont work
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: it won't? why? what does it say?
<^aDaM-iPhone> Will find out now..
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: you pointed me at iptraf the other day, is there something similer for ipv6?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: iptraf can show v6 as well
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hmm, i havent seen it in its man pages.
<MartijnVdS> iftop maybe?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if you go to the "stream" views, it shows both v4 and v6 connections
<MartijnVdS> as long as you have those, of course ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i do yes, ok, let me try that out.
<^aDaM-iPhone> Oomggg boots dkkkd man
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: keep calm and carry on :P
<^aDaM-iPhone> cant acess anything says grub error 21
<MartijnVdS> "Selected disk does not exist"
<MartijnVdS> = error 21
<^aDaM-iPhone> even with the exeternal usb disconnect im fkd no back up of anyhimg
<^aDaM-iPhone> cant get on windows how do i get rid of grub
<^aDaM-iPhone> wifes gonna kill me lol
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: boot into an Ubuntu installer
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: we can fix it from there
<^aDaM-iPhone> aww i hope so :( how do i boot into ubuntu installer im no good at this
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: you said you'd installed 8.10 earlier
<^aDaM-iPhone> yes via genuine disc
<MartijnVdS> Start from that, but don't start installing
<^aDaM-iPhone> ok so booting
<^aDaM-iPhone> ok
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: you didn't install windows after Ubuntu, but the basic principle is the same
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: also.. irony. It's World Backup Day
<^aDaM-iPhone> hope this works
<^aDaM-iPhone> Just booted typed in rescue will windows be there still?
<MartijnVdS> yes, rescue won't remove Windows
<MartijnVdS> unless you removed it earlier..
<^aDaM-iPhone> Noni and ok cool :) thanks man
<^aDaM-iPhone> Im stuck here now MartijnVdS :(
<^aDaM-iPhone> http://i46.tinypic.com/35bxaoh.jpg
<^aDaM-iPhone> Thts my windows drive i disconnect my usb hdd
<^aDaM-iPhone> shell i have this connect
<^aDaM-iPhone> as thats what u utiband linux libe is on
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: your screen is sideways
<MartijnVdS> I don't know.. that's not the rescue screen
<^aDaM-iPhone> lmaoo as u sai that MartijnVdS i noticed i have my iphone upside down lmao
<MartijnVdS> that's the re-partitioning screen
<^aDaM-iPhone> oh right
<MartijnVdS> and that one IS scary and can delete stuff
<^aDaM-iPhone> ah see
<^aDaM-iPhone> yh ano lol
<^aDaM-iPhone> oh no
<^aDaM-iPhone> reboot fimd
<MartijnVdS> fimd?
<^aDaM-iPhone> time
<^aDaM-iPhone> So ok boot my 8.10 unbuntu disc now...
<MartijnVdS> this wasn't your 8.10 disc?
<^aDaM-iPhone> I have on screen Install ubuntu etc
 * brobostigon does seperate ipv4/ipv6 network diagrams to work it out.
<^aDaM-iPhone> This is 8.10 i have no later
<kvarley> Easiest way to remove the last character of a string?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: the prototypical XY problem :)
<kvarley> Got it lol
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I'm always asking XY problems ;)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: I noticed ;)
<^aDaM-iPhone> Im screwed
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPhone: you could buy some empty CDs and burn a recent Ubuntu
<^aDaM-iPhone> No i need my windows back i hve lots of info on there i need
<^aDaM-iPhone> this grubs in my way stoppin windows to load
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS: all working now, thanks http://awesomescreenshot.com/08e141q56d
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: woo :)
 * MartijnVdS uses collectd now
<dogmatic69_> managed to get a custom fpm monitor also
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS: link? google is not helping for 'collected'
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: http://collectd.org/
<dogmatic69_> tx
<MartijnVdS> I run it on my Pi
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> iftop is definatly closer, :)
<kvarley> Is there a way I can view line endings in terminal?
<kvarley> I want to see whether my string is ending with a space or a \n
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: what do you want to do, really?
<kvarley> I've got a string that is a comma separated list and I want to remove the last comma. The string finishes with ", "
<kvarley> This is in bash btw
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: sed -e 's/, +//'
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: sed -e 's/, *//' actually.. zero or more spaces
<kvarley>  MartijnVdS: Not working, I'm not sure why
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: maybe you need -r in there as well (sed -r -e)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: maybe the trailing char is a tab?
<MartijnVdS> sed -r -e 's/,\s*$//'
<MartijnVdS> try that
<brobostigon> this is one sad day, when galaxy quest is the best thing on tv.
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: \0/
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Thanks for that. Why did that work and not the other?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Can I use that snippet in a project? It will be MIT licensed.
<brobostigon> it is definatly weird looking at ipv6 addr's, with port numbers hooked on, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: [they:should:look:like]:this
<MartijnVdS> the [] part make it easier to distinguish :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: quite, yes, i had to look twice, to make sure.
<MartijnVdS> what.. Galaxy Quest on BBC Two and nobody told me? :)
<brobostigon> it is funny, but as i said earlier, it is sad, when that is the only thing on.
<kvarley> Anybody know if the Nexus 10 will be getting the full Ubuntu Touch OS experience? (As in running fully Unity when you plug into a monitor with keyboard + mouse?)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: if anyone knows, it's popey
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I think the specs were 2GB RAM minimum so it might scrape in there
<kvarley> Does flashing Ubuntu void your warranty? AFAIK the Nexus 10 doesn't have a locked bootloader
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: I think European rules say no.. but I'd assume yes
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Any ideas where the changelogs are for the daily ubuntu touch preview images?
<kvarley> Sorry, didn't mean to add  your name to that message
<kvarley> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/current/ has a changelog with nothing useful in it
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: isn't there a mailing list where every package upload is sent?
<dutchie> oxford \o/
<darrell09thomas> can anyone help how i can make ubuntu 12.10 run faster my laptop is a acer aspire 5536 4Gb ram 1TB hdd
<darrell09thomas> anyone online
<moreati> darrell09thomas: be specific, in what way is it slow?
<moreati> oh
<^aDaM-desktop> lo all :)
<^aDaM-desktop> back again!
<MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-desktop: fixed it then?
<popey> evening
<brobostigon> eveing popey-ness.
<mungbean> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/nurvo-android-4-ice-cream-sandwich-hdmi-tv-stick-1080p-full-hd-wi-fi-usb-22-98-ebay-1515727
<mungbean> in case anyone interestd
<popey> HD decode _and_ encode.. interesting
<popey> mungbean: tempted to get one for the bedroom telly
<popey> would need a remote tho
<ali1234> how legit is play.com?
<popey> i have bought from them before
<popey> their marketplace is somewhat full of suspect stuff tho
<popey> i think they shutdown their own store and are only marketplace now?
<ali1234> yes
<kvarley> I've only ever bought from play when they sold stuff
<mungbean> play changed
<mungbean> they stopped being a real retailer and now just junky marketplace stuff
<mungbean> oh, that just got said.
<mungbean> woops
<mungbean> popey: NO HDMI on my telly :(
<mungbean> would be an expensive gadget if i got a telly with it
<mungbean> i wonder why shotwell doesn't always hide already imported photos
<popey> i filed a bug about that
<mungbean> i still have to use picasa to do stuff, because of lack of effects, its a shame
<popey> bug 708375
<mungbean> shotwell could be awesome
<lubotu3> bug 708375 in shotwell (Ubuntu) "Shotwell doesn't remember "Hide photos already imported" tickbox" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708375
<popey> gosh, 2 years ago
<popey> time flies
<SuperMatt> yorba have mroe important things to be doing now
<SuperMatt> cripes, I don't think they're going to make their target
<popey> the fact that it is on indiegogo and not kickstarter doesnt help
<penguin42> so, anyone know anything better than gucview for capturing video - ideally that can time stamp
<kvarley> penguin42: ffmpeg?
<penguin42> preferably with a gui that I can tweek the setting sto get the contract ?
<kvarley> penguin42: is this for cctv?
<penguin42> this is for boiler watching!
<kvarley> so...yes?
<kvarley> ZoneMinder can do what you want but it's probably overkill
<penguin42> ooh, never tried that
<penguin42> my problem is really trying to monitor it while I'm in the shower to see why it's going cold!
<penguin42> http://imagebin.org/252343
<mungbean> i hope that not a pic of u in the shoqwer
<penguin42> no; the boiler :-)
<mungbean> thats a mean thing to call the missis
<SuperMatt> penguin42: just a suggestion, but rather than timestamp the video, could you not just set a watch down next to it? then you can use anything to record it.
<penguin42> kvarley: Given what zoneminder has just installed, yes - it is overkill for my poor little netbook
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Ooh, I like it - technology!
<mungbean> i use motion
<mungbean> very simple config and install
<penguin42> mungbean: How do you tweak the camera settings
<mungbean> nappy explosion, back in a bit
 * penguin42 hands mungbean the firehose
<mungbean> sounded like a pooback
<penguin42> zoneminder doesn't seem to want to display an image
 * penguin42 is  seeing what appears to be bug 1159361
<lubotu3> bug 1159361 in zoneminder (Ubuntu) "zoneminder not creating local unix sockets for streaming" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1159361
<mungbean> penguin42: sent u my config file for motion
<mungbean> just apt get motion, use a similar config, and run it
<penguin42> mungbean: Thanks; I like the fact it can do the text
<mungbean> you can stream on 8081 or record motion
<penguin42> ah, now that is working
<penguin42> well streaming with text overlay, but not recording yet
<penguin42> right, as long as it isn't going to have file size problems that should work
<penguin42> mungbean: Thanks!
<mungbean> np
<penguin42> mungbean: Now a bit of OCR and graphing I could monitor this boiler - I need some proper lighting though - it's a non-backlit LCD and a cheap asda webcam - so some limits
<mungbean> penguin42: you could always turn on the shower and not get in, but watch theboiler instead
<penguin42> mungbean: The problem is it doesn't always do it
<penguin42> and sods law says now I have this setup it won't - but we'll see
<mungbean> cheap fix
<mungbean> having another torrid night with the newborn :)
<mungbean> :(
<mungbean> wind pains i guess
<directhex> a
<directhex> a
<directhex> a
<directhex> a
<directhex> a
<directhex> a
<directhex> sorry, had to get that goddamn coloured global notice off my screen
<mungbean> ?
<mungbean> didny see it
<mungbean> ah, its on my alt-1 page
<mungbean> hideous
<popey> wat
<popey> has richih been hacked?
<mungbean> who are these people who sells books retailing at Â£10-15 at Â£86.98 on amazon/ebay?
<Myrtti> popey: no?
<popey> just the very odd social engagement
<popey> mungbean: bots probably
<Myrtti> amazon did hike up their fees...
<mungbean> i see it a lot, but why? in case someone is desperate, or they list a huge amount of books and make mistakes?
<mungbean> when a book is in print and they try to sell at 8*RRP
<mungbean> never get good deals on everyday items via ebay anymore, more likely via local page on facebook
<penguin42> it's really annoying that when you set monitoring up like that it all works perfectly
<penguin42> so I'm about to start learning Python; is there anything I should be careful of
<mungbean> which versuin
<penguin42> yeh that's what I wondered, is it best to start with the current version and then learn what not to do in the older one?
<mungbean> is this enigma prog on bbc now any good or will it annoy me
<mungbean> th4eres lots of free books
 * penguin42 was going to follow the tutorial on python.org
<mungbean> learn python hard way, dive inyo python
<mungbean> are both ok toi
<penguin42> yeh, I've got a project to do
<graingert> penguin42: what's the project?
<penguin42> graingert: I'm playing with opencv, and have extracted some face data from all the images in my webcache; now I want to create a waiting between images to feed into a graph viewer like Gephi
<graingert> you should probably ask in #python
<penguin42> oh they must get annoyed at the 'hey I want to learn python' type q - I'll see how I go
<shauno> completely OT, but doesn't look like I'm gonna be interupting anyone .. google maps is interesting today :)
<penguin42> shauno: oh nice, I'd only noticed google nose
<mungbean> wondering whay the minimum i need to do to setup my eee pc as a kindle
<mungbean> ;ightweight wm + debian + wine?
<penguin42> oh you mean actually a kindle kindle as opposed to a reader of other types of stuff
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> although other suggestuibs welcomr
<mungbean> argh typing]
<mungbean> most book im currently readinmg are in kidle land until i free them
<mungbean> but sync is helpful atm
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-24
<maps|wrk> hm
<maps|wrk> brb..not that anyone's around =]
<knightwise> morning everyone
<Myrtti> morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<jussi> Morning diplo, MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<diplo> Very quiet in here, good weekend all ?
<bashrc> yes
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> yeah was great, playing with my go pro :D
<MartijnVdS> oh you went pro? :P
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: pro all the way baby ;)
<dwatkins> I keep getting calls from a friend of mine who has finally started using Linux after many years of doing Windows support. Is there a good resource for general information about things like clustering and multipally redundant systems which I can direct him to?
<diddledan> there was a weekend?
<jussi> dwatkins: https://help.ubuntu.com/community
<diddledan> I think I slept it
<dwatkins> What baffled me is that he was trying to mount an iSCSI target on two machines at the same time, I told him to just use NFS ;)
<dwatkins> thanks jussi
<diddledan> dwatkins: http://clusterlabs.org/
<dwatkins> diddledan: I slept through quite a lot of the weekend
<dwatkins> ooh, neat, thanks to you too diddledan
<dwatkins> I've used Rocks and C3 in the past, but in a more structured environment.
<jussi> dwatkins: more specifically, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Servers
<jussi> thats where the bits I think you are looking for are
<dwatkins> jussi: yep, was just pondering sending him to there specifically or the previous page ;)
<diddledan> maplin have a 12cup coffee maker for 19.99
<diddledan> I wonder how long it'ld take me to drink that many cups
<dwatkins> for me, about 6 days
<jussi> dwatkins: give him both :D
<dwatkins> :)
<foobarry> queenie winehouse http://i.imgur.com/t6q9qxq.jpg :D
<dwatkins> I think part of the problem is that he isn't so familiar with the concepts used in Linux compared to Windows servers, so it's probably best to start off with only a few links.
<diddledan> foobarry: awesome
<foobarry> i wish i did it
<jussi> dwatkins: but, but windows users pointy clicky love links...
<dwatkins> jussi: indeed, it's an uphill struggle
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate Covered Raisins Day! :-D
<jussi> dwatkins: I dunno much about it, but might be worth him also looking at: https://juju.ubuntu.com/ ?
<diddledan> point-n-click will soon be a thing of the past that us old folk remember with nostalgia. the y00f will all be "point-n-prod"
<jussi> diddledan: pfft, look and blink is all the rage now :P
 * diddledan blinks hard to make the screen change
<jussi> damn people who make instructional videos.... a MONOTONE sucks - expression is allowed!!!
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/03/goat-simulator-preview-goat-of-the-year/
<foobarry> made an 8-bit luigi to go with mario and yoshi http://ubuntuone.com/2Y0V29Rg1cDVrSbnfKMCgC
<foobarry> jussi: i think it's because they are reading/american
<jussi> foobarry: heh
<foobarry> or worse, unscripted
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> foobarry: excellent
<foobarry> want to see teh scariest banana ever?
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/gallery/8vJXKt2
<popey> i drew minecraft things on Sam's banana today
<ali1234> "what's that?" "it's a minecraft"
<popey> tools mostly
<marxjohn1on> I'm doing an install and need everything encrypted, I selected that I wanted encryption when partitioning, do I need to/should I tick "encrypt my home directory" too?
<jussi> foobarry: its Achmed!
<brobostigon> marxjohn1on: if thats what you want.
<marxjohn1on> brobostigon: What I mean is, will everything be encrypted on disk regardless, or is the home directory stored clear unless I select that?
<marxjohn1on> I'm the only user, so not worried about someone else booting then reading my files
<popey> marxjohn1on: no
<marxjohn1on> popey: no i dont need to?
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> well, you're already doing whole disk encryption
<popey> why would you want to encrypt the encrypted data?
<marxjohn1on> cool, that's what I thought
<marxjohn1on> cheers
<popey> home directory encryption is ecryptfs type stuff
<popey> np
<marxjohn1on> popey: Got a new work laptop, it has a mouse nipple (not a thinkpad though)
<popey> marxjohn1on: wossit?
<popey> Dell or HP?
<marxjohn1on> Dell
<popey> \o/ Latitude?
<marxjohn1on> yep E7440
<jussi> I like nipples :D
<popey> I too enjoy using a TouchPoint keyboard
<jussi> although disappointingly the nipple on my E6500 has done a runner
<jussi> I should order a new one
<ali1234> i find the trackpoint experience rather like balancing a broom on the end of your finger
<popey> I ordered some new ones off ebay
<popey> they should arrive soon
<popey> i am balancing the world underneath my finger
<jussi> popey: you an apple kinda guy sometimes - how do I know which version of Ipad it is from the serial number sticker?  (is it even possible to tell? )
<davmor2> popey: you're doing it wrong you balance the world on top of your finger ala spinning basket ball
<popey> jussi: no idea.
<popey> http://www.techhive.com/article/2049920/how-to-tell-which-ipad-model-you-have.html
<jussi> anyone else know?  anyone? anyone? bueller?
<popey> model number
<popey> google knows
<marxjohn1on> Hmm this is weird, Ubuntu's not seeing my wireless adapter
<ali1234> https://discussions.apple.com/message/17924797#17924797
<MartijnVdS> marxjohn1on: did it see it before?
<marxjohn1on> MartijnVdS: no, new machine
<dwatkins> yeah, google the model number on the back, e.g. mine is an A1396, details here: https://support.apple.com/kb/HT5452
<MartijnVdS> marxjohn1on: is the "flight mode" switch active maybe?
<popey> marxjohn1on: what does lspci say it is?
<popey> in a latitude, probably intel or broadcom
<shauno> https://selfsolve.apple.com/ will actually give you details from the serial number
<marxjohn1on> MartijnVdS: There's a switch on the side but I've made sure it's on
<dwatkins> another useful page is this, jussi - http://www.everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/?search_keywords=A1396
<marxjohn1on> popey: Intel i believe
<MartijnVdS> marxjohn1on: can you pastebin lspci output?
<marxjohn1on> "Network Controller: Intel Corporation Device 08b1
<jussi> ok thanks peoples
<MartijnVdS> marxjohn1on: which Ubuntu version are you using?
<marxjohn1on> MartijnVdS: no, becuase no network :)
<marxjohn1on> 13.04 atm
<popey> https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Intel_Dual_Band_Wireless-AC_7260_(7260HMW)
<MartijnVdS> marxjohn1on: 3.11 has a driver.. so I guess you need a newer Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> Kernel 3.11
<popey> why 13.04 out of interest?
<popey> oh
<popey> only cd you have handy?
<marxjohn1on> Becuase I picked the newest Ubuntu from unetbootin, and didn't realise it wasn't 13.10
<popey> bummer
<popey> I'd use 14.04 tbh
<MartijnVdS> marxjohn1on: why unetbootin and not dd? :)
<marxjohn1on> ah right, OK looks like I'll have to get 13.10 ISO and reinstall
<MartijnVdS> also, 14.04 is getting more stable by the hour
<marxjohn1on> Alright then, I'll go for that
<davmor2> marxjohn1on: serious grab the latest 14.04, or you'll have to upgrade again in a couple of week anyway :)
<marxjohn1on> is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ the right place to get it?
<popey> that'll do
<davmor2> marlinc:
<davmor2> marxjohn1on: yeap
<popey> marxjohn1on: still got your asus?
<Monotoko> when is 14.04 due?
<popey> 7/4
<popey> ish
<MartijnVdS> isn't that "just" the RC?
<popey> s/7/17/
<Monotoko> cheers
<Monotoko> ah monday's...
<Monotoko> *mondays
<Monotoko> *Mondays
<marxjohn1on> popey: read that too quickly, didn't read it as "asus". Yes I do
<Myrtti> popey: so the third Thursday still holds, eh
<popey> ya
 * dwatkins waits patiently for the SMART test to run on his NAS (about 5 hours, apparently)
<dwatkins> perhaps I should have unmounted the filesystem first...
<Monotoko> standard test or do you reckon something's wrong?
<dwatkins> Monotoko: I've had 3 e-mails from this Synology in the past month saying that there was a problem but it corrected it
<dwatkins> I've just bought a replacement disk, so that I can send this one off for replacement if necessary without being one disk down whilst it's sent away
<DJones> On Domain renewal services, what is "Windows Entry Hosting"
<MartijnVdS> DJones: entry-level Windows VM?
<DJones> Looks like it
<diddledan> http://grahamcluley.com/2014/03/gmail-goes-https-inside/
<diddledan> DJones: I would expect it to be shared web-hosting rather than vps
<diddledan> but still entry-level as MartijnVdS suggests
<Monotoko> is today dragging for anyone else?
<diplo> Yep Monotoko
<MooDoo> yes me but I finish at 3:30 :D
<diplo> and I leave in an hour and a hlaf
<diddledan> MooDoo: grr
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: diddledan ear prick up, shared hosting?
<mapps> afternon y'all
<diddledan> morning
<mapps> hey diddledan
<mapps> its cold but the suns out
<mapps> ;/
<diddledan> I got a thick wooly
<diddledan> woolly**
<foobarry> mammoth
<diddledan> now that's something to be proud of
<mapps> gotta go out soon too post my passport form else il never do it!
<foobarry> my boiler is playing up, only 1yr old, whats the likely route of support from the manufacturer? have to pay for man to service it and he deals with company directly?
<foobarry> its under guarantee
<mapps> phone them
<mapps> if it wasnt id have gone to british gas..my boiler wasnt working..got british gas care thing they came round fitted a new controller thing didnt fix it..came back..spent hours fixed it..only paid 200
<foobarry> there's a millino numbers
<mapps> and the parts alone wouldve been 200!!
<mapps> so annoying..being on my own il never manage to afford a mortgage for where i want..need to find some rich girl
<mapps> ;]
<diddledan> rich girl +1
<foobarry> does anyone understand anything about boilers
<foobarry> called up the company
<foobarry> bloke says, it sounds like the gas governor
<diddledan> I understand you need to be registered to open them :-p
<foobarry> "nothing to do with your boiler"
<diddledan> balls
<diddledan> wtf is a gas governor?
<foobarry> A gas governor is an apparatus that is installed in any pressurised gas-using equipment, supply lines or tanks. The governor regulates the amount of gas that passes through and the pressure of such gas and ensures both are at their optimal.
<diddledan> so it's part of the boiler.
<foobarry> "why does it resolve the problem if i turn it off and on again?" because you let it rest
<diddledan> which means there's a problem with the boiler
<foobarry> i think i need to get it serviced
<foobarry> and he will call the company on my behalf
<foobarry> lately my car leaked, my boiler is playing up, got 2 bikes nicked, hole in my roof, needed a new fence... :(
<foobarry> stressed :(
<diddledan> expensive
<mapps> its under warranty
<mapps> cant u just phone the company
<mapps> claim for bikes on insurance?
<mapps> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuyAF4vtdUk
<mapps> when i saw them in 2010 it was a right let down...they were on when it was sunny;/ like 5pm pff
<foobarry> insruance is a con. claim and you will pay
<foobarry> in the long run, so just decided not to get new bikes
<foobarry> my bruv needs a windows pc for his kids to do school work
<foobarry> 32 or 64 bit?
<foobarry> windows 7
 * foobarry clicks 32bit
 * foobarry hesitates
<diddledan> 32bit is last century
<foobarry> is that enough reason? the pc is rather old too
<dwatkins> unless you're doing stuff like video editing, 32-bit will suffice. There might be some games which need to address more than 4 GB, but I doubt there are many.
<foobarry> its a core2duo with 4gb
<dwatkins> having said that, for future-proofing, 64-bit might be advisable, and should work with most stuff. That CPU should be 64-bit capable.
<dwatkins> The early coreduo CPUs weren't 64-bit capable, iirc.
<foobarry> i think the pc may die first
<diddledan> dwatkins: yes, the core series was 32bit, core2 and later were all 64bit
<diddledan> then there's pentium which I have no idea what the heck they're doing these days
<diddledan> and celeron, still!
<dwatkins> I have an Atom-based netbook at home, I think it'll only do 32-bit OSs
<diddledan> atom is a weird one, too
<diddledan> some atoms are 32 and some are 64 - I haven't worked out a definitive way of determining which is which
<smittix> Does anyone know what Nvidia Optimus support is like?
<diddledan> crap
<smittix> :(
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> it's better than it was
<diddledan> but still not seamless
<smittix> Thinking of battery consumption on this new laptop
<dwatkins> diddledan: I assume the fact I have this in /proc/cpuinfo is more likely because I'm running a 32-bit kernel: address sizes   : 32 bits physical, 32 bits virtual
<diddledan> dwatkins: yes, if you are running in 32bit mode you'll only see 32bit cpu data
<diddledan> you might be able to convince it to report 48 bits address size if you have PAE turned on somewhere (I know not where. it's a kernel option)
<directhex> foobarry, 3.2gb, more or less
<directhex> it is not a limit on 4gb ram, it is a limit on 4gb address space
<foobarry> even for win7? i thought it would be PAR
<directhex> all memory mapped devices are taken from that address space - e.g. gpu ram
<foobarry> PAE
<directhex> pae was disabled in windows. some security bull.
<foobarry> argh
<foobarry> just clicked burn on my only remianing dvd
<directhex> basically you only get 4gb ram in 32-bit windows if you have 0 devices
<diddledan> rewrite ftw
<dwatkins> and no kernel
<dwatkins> oh sorry, not total RAM, 4 GB address space for each app, I guess
<diddledan> dwatkins: windows is limited to 2GB of address-space per process
<diddledan> in 32bit mode
<dwatkins> oh wow, I see
<diddledan> that needn't mean that you can only use 2GB of ram however, but the other limit of 4GB minus GFX RAM minus kernel space etc. still applies
<diddledan> basically any one process can use up to 2GB of ram in 32bit 'dows and the entire system including devices attached to pci must fit within 4GB - gfx is the big offender because it effectively subtracts from available installed ram by the amount of ram the gfx has onboard to allow it's memory range to be addressable within the 4GB ceiling
<diddledan> you'd think there'd be a simple way to allow gfx ram to exist outside the normal sphere of addresses but no
<foobarry> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/03/lego-bricks-still-last-30000-impressions-during-new-and-improved-test/#p3
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mapp> hey
<mapp> my net went down for like 30mins
<mapp> ;[
<diddledan> mapp: :-o
<diddledan> mapp: that's evil!
<mapp> ya i went to the post office whilst it was down
<mapp> so got my passport stuff posted
<diddledan> aah
<mapp> 1 more thing to do today and EVERYTHINGS DONE
<diddledan> two birds, one dingo
<mapp> well except work;p
<dwatkins> an efficient use of time
<dwatkins> (clearly I've been watching too much Star Trek: Voyager)
<foobarry> was opening my post on the train today because i don't have time at home. lady was staring at me
<foobarry> she'll really stare when i shave on thee train tomorrow
<mapp> :D
<mapp> i think they have an outlt for a shaver on trains right?
<dwatkins> it's probably in the toilet, though
<shauno> I started watching Voyager recently too.  struck me that I'd caught the odd episode but hadn't actually followed it.  so now I'm catching up
<dwatkins> there's a charging point for laptops/phones, though
<dwatkins> shauno: I'm on series 5 having started at a random episode I caught somewhere, I'm avoiding the silly holodeck ones, though.
<shauno> much further then .. I think I'm about half way through s2
<dwatkins> I saw it all a couple years ago, iirc.
<mapp> i always travel first class on the train these days...so i get a table and power socket for me
<mapp> :D
<mapp> laptop/phone/tablet :D
<diddledan> shauno: I did that with Babylon 5
<dwatkins> I travel carriage class, coach B (the quiet one) and usually get a power socket at the window seat.
<foobarry> my shaver is charged
<mapp> on virgin trains?
<dwatkins> diddledan: that's on my list to watch again soon, B5 :)
<mapp> I usually go in coach H - quiet coach
<mapp> first class fa sho
<foobarry> Â£Â£
<dwatkins> mapp: I travel East Coast between Edinburgh and London mostly.
<mapp> its brilliant like
<foobarry> i shave at work sometimes. just don't have time at home
<shauno> I don't do trains.  I'm poor, so I fly
<dwatkins> I have a razor on my desk just in case.
<mapp> 39 quid first class ...if i turned up on day Â£72 standard!!!
<foobarry> fly to work
<mapp> and the same 1st class 250 if you paid on the day lol
<diddledan> shauno: aer fungus?
<foobarry> i take a slow commuter class rickety train to work
<dwatkins> I pay Â£150 to visit my mum 450 miles away at a moment's notice, it's about Â£50 if I actually plan in advance.
<mapp> yea
<mapp> see
<shauno> ryanair>aer fungus, amazingly
<mapp> thats why i love booking say a week in advance 39 quid and its cheaper than standard on the day
<mapp> and u get the same service not like the staff look and go 'ughh its a cheapskate;
<mapp> still get my free beers
<foobarry> havent flown on a plane in about 7+ years
<foobarry> maybe nearer 9
<mapp> ryan air is horrid
<mapp> flew ryan air/ba/jet2/KLM last year
<foobarry> flying is horrid and inhumane
<mapp> BA was the best..Jet2 decent enough..KLM really good
<shauno> I only use aer lingus if I'm flying to london.  for everything else, they're as bad as ryanair but twice the price
<mapp> ryan air awful;p
<mapp> hopefully get Jet2 when i go to CZ
<mapp> strange to think im 30 this year..actually old
<bigcalm> Oi. 30 isn't old
<mapp> heh
<bigcalm> Anybody here use sipgate?
<mapp> no idea what it is:D
<bigcalm> Can anybody recommend a sip solution for 3 remote offices?
<dwatkins> I have a sipgate (UK) account, but only use it on my Android phone occasionally.
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I can have someone from Tandberg contact you, if you need an enterprise solution :)
<dwatkins> full disclosure: my brother works there
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.asterisk.org/
<mapp> oh god
<mapp> tennis is so strange
<mapp> see them win a set like 6-1 making it look easy then go and lose the 2nd 6-0
<bigcalm> davmor2: yeah, I don't have time or inclination to set it up myself :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: if Ron were well enough, I'd push business his way
<mapp> i never understand this thing that players crumble either..surely at top leve they should be mentally strong enough
<mapp> when my net went down earlier xubuntu hasnt reconnected.how can i force this manually??
<daftykins> wired eth?
<bigcalm> Restart networking?
<daftykins> restarting networking hasn't done anything right for ages :(
<bigcalm> Reboot?
<SuperMatt> ok... release party. what's the dealio?
<daftykins> you get the cake
<shauno> read that as coke :/
<SuperMatt> daftykins: I will get cake, but that doesn't help me meet up with everyone else
<daftykins> shauno: D:
<daftykins> ok :( but cake is important
<shauno> sounds like a reasonable way to meet people, too.  just walk up to people and ask: "cake?"
<mapp> hey sorry
<mapp> daftykins/ bigcalm wireless
<mapp> like if i restated my router now my xubuntu machine will just stay there disconnected it wont reconnect
<mapp> not sure how to fix it
<daftykins> not sure what xubuntu has, little network icon that needs to have the wireless network name reselected? *shrug*
<daftykins> assuming it has X
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> xubuntu uses network manager same as ubuntu
<ali1234> check out xubuntu 14.04, it's really good :)
<mapp> yea
<ali1234> silly bottom panel is gone, there's whiskermenu, and it has real gtk3 indicators
<mapp> is there any way to restart it or write a script so it restarts if it goes down
<ali1234> and compositor zoom
<ali1234> mapp: i dunno but that almost certainly isn't a xubuntu specific bug
<ali1234> does it automatically connect when you boot up?
<ali1234> ie did you save the passphrase?
<ali1234> what type of encryption are you using?
<mapp> yea i know that sorry i was just saying xubuntu to s[ecify what im using
<mapp> yea passphrase set
<mapp> it auto connects on boot
<ali1234> and what do you have to do to manually reconnect? just click the network again?
<mapp> well
<mapp> i dont know how to manually reconnect..never get it to work and always endup rebooting
<ali1234> i suspect flakey wifi driver or broken router
<ali1234> ah, bad driver then
<mapp> hm
<mapp> :(
<ali1234> what wifi card?
<ali1234> this is why i never use wifi if i can possibly avoid it
<ali1234> it's just as bad on windows too, before anyone starts complaining about linux driver support
<mapp> hm ralink something how cold i find out? lsmod? or easier way?
<ali1234> lspci
<ali1234> unless it's usb
<mapp>  Network controller: Ralink corp. RT2800 802.11n PCI
<ali1234> yeah i'm seeing a lot of people with problems on that card
<ali1234> but no solutions
<ali1234> next time it happens look for errors on dmesg and /var/log/syslog etc
<ali1234> might reveal something
<mapp> is there any other logfile to look at re wireless
<mapp> gah this tennis
<ali1234> don't think so
<ali1234> it's probably going to be a hardware error
<ali1234> driver isn't resetting the device properly on reconnection or something
<ali1234> in which case it will probably complain on dmesg
<mapp> :(
<mapp> so my wireless card sucks grmpf
<mapp> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeNWtxw8RGQ
<daftykins> ali1234: i didn't know it used NM as i don't run any desktop ubuntu let alone xubuntu :>
<daftykins> also i've not seen wireless issues on Windows :D but then i always deal with good adapters
<daftykins> none of that cheap tosh
<mapp> meant to be in work at 11 gotta go in for 9 to do some boring admin rubbish...got out of doing it at last and then this week noone else that can do it is in
<mapp> =[
<mapp> basically boring data input
<daftykins> :<
<mapp> yea its just tedious
<mapp> not hard at all..just rubbish
<mapp> doing the schedule/rota..
<mapp> still could be worse
<mapp> ive often wondered how id find another job now...
<mapp> i complain a lot about my hours..they arent ideal..but job wise i wathc sport..watch other tv while at work..come on irc..read stuff im interested in and can bet till my hearts content
<mapp> lol
<daftykins> ;)
<mapp> not watching sport/betting would be ok..but are normal offices super strict on internet and that
<mapp> if i couldnt go on any non work sites thatd be tough
<shauno> I have a wee 3g mifi thingie at work, and take my own laptop with me
<daftykins> shauno: can't you still see your place when making coffee though? :D
<shauno> heh, it's not close enough for wifi though
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> cantenna!
<shauno> that's not a terrible idea
<daftykins> it could be pretty fun, i think the main challenge is acquiring a card or USB dongle that has external antenna connections
<shauno> or just sticking the whole dongle in the can
<ali1234> the main challenge is finding a can with the right diameter
<daftykins> don't think that's as big a deal 'cause you just adjust something else
<ali1234> yeah, length
<shauno> as I understand it, the diameter is largely irrelevant
<daftykins> i think length and the size of the core piece you put in are determining factors
 * bigcalm flops back in
<shauno> the critical bit is getting the antenna the correct distance from the reflector (the bottom of the can)
<shauno> the diameter gives you a min/max freq for a waveguide, but it's quite a wide window  (pringles is 2.3-3GHz)
<shauno> it'd be pretty impractical to put something up at the other end though :/
<diddledan> lol @ the pringle frequency
<diddledan> good excuse to eat a can tho
<daftykins> they taste like cardboard :(
<diddledan> I think that's because they are deep-fried cardboard
<daftykins> ah-ha!
<daftykins> wasn't just me going mad then
<bigcalm> What's the advantage of using sip over skype?
<bigcalm> Greater choice of client?
<popey> use a real handset
<diddledan> bigcalm: skype is a closed protocol whereas sip is an open interoperable standard
<bigcalm> What clients do you peeps like to use?
<daftykins> $insert_obligatory_NSA_reference
<popey> On iOS I use Acrobits Softphone
<bigcalm> Nothing in Ubuntu?#
<popey> Otherwise I use a real Cisco desktop phone
<popey> nope
<popey> i dont want to make phone calls from my computer
<popey> i use phones
<daftykins> ooh that reminds me, i heard my landline call today!
<daftykins> s/call/ring
<bigcalm> What if you are remote working?
<daftykins> nobody knows that number 8)
<popey> i use my phone as I said
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<popey> i expect there are android ones
<popey> i just happen to not have android on any phones so not tried any
<popey> the Acrobits iOS one (if it has android version this may be interesting) is quite reliable for me
<popey> I can spend 2 hours on the phone on a call via SIP with it and it never drops
<popey> same goes for my cisco phone
<bigcalm> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=acrobits
<bigcalm> Lots of results, which one?
<popey> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.acrobits.softphone.alien
<popey> 22:41:12 < popey> On iOS I use Acrobits Softphone
<popey> â»
<popey> certainly looks similar
<popey> also has the ability to automatically record calls
<popey> which is handy
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> I record all of my skype calls as I have a pants memory
<popey> *pop* bed time
<daftykins> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-25
<mapp> ;]
<mapp> cold wet andmiserable
<mapp> what anice night
<shauno> no kidding!  my window got hit by a low-flying umbrella earlier :(
<mapp> ;(
<mapp> wish i had an umbrella..normally they break in the wind but tonight wasnt too windy and of course im umbrella-less
<shauno> umbrellas should be banned.  they simply don't work here
<shauno> they bug me because the trash cans in town are always stuffed full of them.  silly tourists
<mapp> hahahaha yep
<mapp> when its windy see em everywhere
<mapp> every single one iv had has always broken.cheap or expensive
<shauno> I'm right on the coast.  it's almost always windy
<shauno> but tourists don't seem to realise that the irish solution to rain is pubs, not umbrellas
<mapp> lol
<mapp> so youre in ireland.didnt know:)
<jussi> foobarry: I was reading backlog and saw this...
<jussi> [16:51:00] <foobarry> lately my car leaked, my boiler is playing up, got 2 bikes nicked, hole in my roof, needed a new fence... :(
<jussi> I think maybe you should write some country music...
<MooDoo> HEllo All
<jussi> (sorry, sounds horrible what happened)
<jussi> hi MooDoo
 * jussi is just waiting for the coffee to brew
<mapp> hey
<jussi> morning mapp
<jussi> missing an s today...
<mapp> morning mate
<mapp> yes
<mapp> :D
<mapp> OH WTF
<mapp> i just saw
<mapp> no wonder i had 40mins downtime earlier
<mapp> look at my host
<mapp> that downtime muste been when i went from o2 to bethere
<mapp> just saw my host skybroadband.com
<mapp> and a different IP
<mapp> ARGH
<mapp> i had 94.193.78.219 for 6 bloody years
<mapp> why couldnt they switch me over and keep it
<mapp> now heres a question
<mapp> my payment with bethere/o2 was manul as they messed it up
<mapp> do i phone sky and sort it out or leave it and let them contact me:)
<jussi> mapp: be proactive or youll end up with big bills.
<mapp> but itd be same as if i pay it one by one
<mapp> i planned to switch b4 it went to sky
<mapp> didnt think itd happen yet
 * MartijnVdS "Me too"s on Laney's vim bug
<MartijnVdS> (bug 1295127_
<lubotu3> bug 1295127 in vim (Ubuntu) "gvim has messed up global menus" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295127
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Tolkien Reading Day! :-D
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Can anybody recommend (through usage) a desktop SIP client?
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<directhex> bigcalm, empathy has full sip functionality, if you can make it work & it's not broken in today's ubuntu
<directhex> bigcalm, whereas sflphone isn't pretty, but *works*
<jussi> havent used it for a while, but last I remember blink worked...
<ali1234> N900 makes a nice "desktop" sip/skype phone... you can put it on your desk...
<jussi> !info qutecom
<lubotu3> qutecom (source: qutecom): SIP-based software telephone with video and chat features. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.2.1+dfsg1-3ubuntu2 (saucy), package size 2564 kB, installed size 7410 kB
 * bigcalm bangs head against desk
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: sflphone. It's the nuts: http://sflphone.org/
<bigcalm> Setting up SIP on my android phone was simple with Acrobit Softphone
<davmor2> bigcalm: stop doing that you might damage the desk
<bigcalm> But getting a desktop client to work is not happening for me. None of them have working audio
<bigcalm> Which makes me think that there's a problem with Ubuntu 13.10
<ali1234> probably a codec mismatch
<bigcalm> Got something working on 14.04 (laptop) last night though
<ali1234> try calling desktop to desktop and see if that works
<bigcalm> How does one do that?
<ali1234> get two computers and call one from the other
<ali1234> or run two copies of empathy or something
<davmor2> bigcalm: telepathy-sofiasip ekiga sflphone and linphone are all on par-ish.  Personally I use sofiasip in empathy
<ali1234> don't ask me how you would do that. virtualbox maybe?
<davmor2> bigcalm: empathy + telepathy-sofiasip works fine for me for the company conf system if that helps at all and it is fairly easy to setup
 * bigcalm wonders if one can't use the same sip account in more than one place at once
<bigcalm> Sod it, back to work
<bigcalm> Thanks though peeps :)
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I believe so (that's exactly what my brother was working on a couple years ago), but I'm not sure you can log in with the same account (e.g. sipgate) from two devices at the same time.
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: dwatkins That's called SIP branching I think and is a SIP Proxy feature - I don't think SIP servers (Asterisk for example) allow multiple registrations from the same address though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think normally, the SIP server will just alert the most recently registered device unless it is explicitly supported.
<bigcalm> Ah. I have my mobile connected to my sipgate account. This would be why it's not working on the desktop?
<bigcalm> That would mean having to unplug a desktop SIP phone when away from the office :|
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or have multiple accounts and create a ring group.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That is the normal way ;-)
<bigcalm> Humm, fair enough
<popey> i have two devices connected to the same SIP server
<popey> and they both work for ringing out, but i rarely get people ringing in, if they do, it only rings one device
<bigcalm> Until my boss decides to really get SIP sorted out, it's mostly a thought experiment :(
<bigcalm> Will wait until he orders some desk phones
<bigcalm> Any good? http://www.ebuyer.com/239679-cisco-small-business-spa-303-ip-phone-spa303-g3
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes bigcalm We're using them :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> With Asterisk
<bigcalm> Good to know :)
<bigcalm> So you spent the time to set up Asterisk yourself?
<TheOpenSourcerer> We run FreePBX on a Virtual Machine in germany
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have SIP trunks from our phone provider in Dorchester
<bigcalm> Who do you use for trunking?
<TheOpenSourcerer> These guys: http://www.poundbury.com/
<TheOpenSourcerer> But this is historic, we've been with them for years...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good service though.
<bigcalm> Do you use it only in the office?
<bigcalm> Or do you have something set-up for remote working?
<davmor2> Morning all
<directhex> we use polycom
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have Seimens Gigaset phones at home (pstn & SIP) and AlanBell did have SipDriod on his mobile too I think.
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: these phones: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/04/siemens-gigaset-685ip-phones/ (Since April 2008) :-) just starting to replace the batteries now.
<dwatkins> We use Asterisk internally for testing SIP stuffs, it's running on a really underpowered virtual machine, so the voice quality is awful, but it works. It didn't take long to setup, either.
<directhex> asterisk is basically a realtime app
<directhex> quality suffers immensely if interrupts are not serviced instantly
<directhex> freeswitch is much much more forgiving
<dwatkins> I imagine it's also best to run Asterisk on the bare metal, not in a virtual machine (unless the server is nice and fast)
<bigcalm> Just had a call with my father (he rang the number for my sipgate.co.uk account) and it worked really well - on my mobile.
<bigcalm> Bit of a delay from one person to the other though
<popey> that's probably provider-specific
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> i see no delay with our company * server in london
<bigcalm> I am wondering if we should go with separate * server and trunk provider
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I can [privately] give you my SIP number if you want to test the voice quality on a call made to SIPgate (via the mobile phone network's data)
<bigcalm> dwatkins: maybe another time, but thanks :) Just a bit busy right now
<dwatkins> ok, no worries
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just FYI, we don't have any noticeable issues with our * server being in Germany in a VM and our SIP phones in Farnham.
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm guessing the vm server has more than a single Pentium 4 core at 2.8 GHz ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> 32G RAM, 12 cores (6 + hyperthreads) @ 3.4Ghz IIRC
<smittix> Has anyone got a finger print reader working in Ubuntu?
<smittix> Or is it better just to forget about it heh
<popey> I have one, but never use it
<smittix> It as pretty nice to quickly login with it is all.
<smittix> I can do with out it though.
<smittix> Need to see if I can switch this Nvidia card off next.
<directhex> i looked into fingerprint reading
<directhex> but there's a huge list of problems with using it
<smittix> Oh
<smittix> Been away from Ubuntu for too long.
<smittix> Is Ubuntu Tweak still going?
<popey> yes
<popey> there's a unity tweak tool which is nice
<smittix> Cool, will check it out.
<smittix> Will be a little learning for me getting my RTLSDR stuff up and running in Ubuntu too.
<Myrtti> smittix: depends on the hardware, atleast on my work Dell Latitude it's a no-go
<smittix> Well, there was only 2 things I was worried about on this laptop using Ubuntu. 1, Fingerprint Reader (which I'm not too fussed about) 2, Nvidia optimus
<smittix> I can do without the Nvidia card so could probably try and turn it off to save battery consumptions (if possible)
<directhex> smittix, you might not be able to do without the nvidia card, depends on how the laptop is wired internally
<smittix> I will have a gander then. Thanks directhex
<foobarry> i have multiple google accounts, how do i change the name on one of them to foobarry work or foobarry do not use
<shauno> not an answer, but do you ever get g+ sending you emails suggesting you might know yourself?
<smittix> HEH
<shauno> I get them about every 2 weeks at the moment :/
<smittix> Does anyone suffer lag when dragging an icon from dash to launcher?
<foobarry> shauno: yes
<foobarry> i want to disable g+ but i want a youtube account with that login
<mapp> hey
<mapp> so im with sky now hey...so i had o2 (bethere) before...18 quid o2 10 quid sky..will sky charge me a tenner?
<dwatkins> mapp: I had a similar dilemma, and will be switching to PlusNet soon, Â£25 a month for FTTC.
<mapp> i had no choice..:< sky bought bethere and slowly moved everyone over
<mapp> so i was paying 18quidfor o2 (bethere) but now im moved to sky..will sky charge me 10 quid which is what a sky customer pays?
<mapp> or will they leave it and let me pay more lol
<foobarry> is it possible to buy cheap broadband with out phoen rental yet?
<mapp> yea
<mapp> sky
<mapp> 10 quid !!
<dwatkins> you still have to pay line rental somehow, though.
<dwatkins> it might be included, though, not sure.
<foobarry> not for ten quid
<dwatkins> I imagine if you get your broadband from BT they have a really cheap offer, but yeah - line rental is more than Â£10 a month, I'm sure.
<smittix> Doesn't Virgin Media allow you to have bb without a telephone?
<foobarry> the only calls i get on the land line are indian people who don't speak english
<foobarry> smittix: yes with fibre for Â£Â£
<dwatkins> smittix: yeah, but if you do have a landline with Virgin, it's practically free if you have broadband with them, iirc.
<foobarry> so not a good deal
<mapp> oh yea but i thought umeant without oaying the same company
<smittix> I'm with them, I can't even remember what I pay :S
<foobarry> no i don't want a home phone
<foobarry> but i don't want to be penalised with virgin rip off "deal"
<dwatkins> I'm currently with IDNet, they're superb (have UK support department who pick up the phone within 2 rings, network has been superb) but they're Â£45 a month!
<foobarry> also, i need a 3 line bio - anyone done one?
<foobarry> foobarry likes open source and haribo.
<smittix> I do know though every year I go through to customer retentions and tell them I'm going to sky.
<dwatkins> foobarry: make it a haiku ;)]
<smittix> Until they give me something free.
<mapp> IDNet
<mapp> heh
<mapp> idnet a small isp?
<mapp> i tried that with o2 on my phone contract and got nothing?! so just left and went with ee
<foobarry> dwatkins: hmm good one. there are longer haiku too
<mapp> 3 line bio?
<foobarry> the first cold shower
<foobarry> even the monkey seems to want
<foobarry> a little coat of straw
<mapp> guess il have to google
<mapp> no idea of 3 line bio or haiku:)
<foobarry> mapp: 3 lines or 50 words on your career history and summary
<mapp> ah
<mapp> i thought we were still on isp talk
<mapp> lol
<foobarry> a three line bio/is required of my good self/i will write one now
<mapp> ah
<mapp> so why do you pay so much dwatkins> 45/month seems a lot
<dwatkins> mapp: indeed, IDNet are Â£20 a month more than the same from PlusNet. I think IDNet are mainly a business ISP. Also, I have a cap of 200 GB/month, which is double plus ungood.
<mapp> a cap still sucks:(
<foobarry> anyone ever experience hung ssh sessions due to lack of serveraliveinterval settings?
<dwatkins> never even heard of it until now, foobarry [ ServerAliveInterval: number of seconds that the client will wait before sending a null packet to the server (to keep the connection alive). ]
<foobarry> i'm getting hung ssh sessions only on my hpc cluster
<dwatkins> I've had ssh sessions drop on some systems, presumably due to this being set to 0, to disable this feature.
<dwatkins> Are you sure it's not due to something more fundamental, like the IP address changing?
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> on a desktop pc
<foobarry> i regularly leave ssh sessions open for days
<dwatkins> I mean that of the server, unlikely as that is.
<foobarry> these ones are freezing
<dwatkins> as do I - I'm running this irssi session on a machine across the Atlantic from me, I usually stay logged in to it for hours if not days at a time.
<ali1234> i irc directly through a ssh tunnel
<foobarry> changed my conf file ..let's see
<ali1234> no remote irssi session
<dwatkins> I reconnect to my screen/irssi session from home or work
<ali1234> you can check the logs to see how often i disconnect... it does happen, but i use autossh to bring the tunnel up if it goes down
<ali1234> in my experience keepalive doesn't really help at all
<ali1234> if the connection hangs it's because some packet got lost or something and there's no recovering from that
<ali1234> so what you want is to make it exit clean instead of hanging
<foobarry> i suspect its a firwall issue inbetween
<ali1234> yeah
<foobarry> timing out a session
<foobarry> they put a cisco in recently
<ali1234> here, my ssh connection will fail if my internet goes down and comes back up
<ali1234> i have a static IP and on my old router the connection would stay alive on reconnect. but on the new one it doesn't, it just hangs - so it doesn't even realise the connection has died
<foobarry> i'm blaming networks team
<dwatkins> I used to have rlwrap+autossh+screen+irssi
<mapp> autossh?!
<dwatkins> what about it, mapp?
<mapp> i never fully understand ssh tunnelling/port forwarding with it
<mapp> just never heard of it:D
<dwatkins> I don't use port forwarding with autossh, at least not right now.
<dwatkins> autossh will keep the connection alive if the network is disconnected and reconnected, so you don't have to press up-arrow and hit return ;)
<dwatkins> combined with -t 'screen -drU' it will also reconnect to an existing screen session.
<mapp> cant do that with putty i assume
<mapp> it must be linux only i take it?
<dwatkins> I don't know - you can probably have it run a command to reconnect to a screen session at least. There might be some kind of keepalive option in PuTTY.
<mapp> might look into it..i always have to open putty and connect again
<mapp> i did use some windows client thatd auto reconnect that was neat
<dwatkins> mapp: http://superuser.com/questions/187293/putty-automatic-reconnect-after-internet-interruption
<mapp> dont suppose anyone had any idea re my networking question daftykins said it was my wireless card..but say i restat the router it doesnt come back online
<mapp> and if im not at home i cant restart it..and cant ssh in obviously as its just hung..guess thees nothing besides get a new card
<dwatkins> what doesn't restart/reconnect exactly, mapp, or is it that the machine gets a different IP address?
<mapp> say i restarted my router now or had a powercut the xubuntu machine would just stay there unconected...it may say it has an ip on ifconfig i think i manually set it so its static
<mapp> but it wouldnt regain connectivity
<dwatkins> also, depending on how it's set up, it might require you to be logged in for wifi to connect.
<mapp> it starts on boot
<dwatkins> so you have the SSID and passphrase set in /etc/network/interfaces file or similar, a static IP address, but it doesn't work until a particular point?
<mapp> yea
<mapp> like it works now
<mapp> and its all fine..if i turned my router off then back on..it wouldnt work again without me rebooting
<mapp> surely there's a way to solve that1
<mapp> =[
<dwatkins> mapp: that depends on how the client machine is configured, it might be worth considering having the machine itself use DHCP and have the router give it a specific IP address based on the wifi adapter's MAC address.
<dwatkins> I'm not sure at what point the wifi is initialised at boot-time, or whether it will renegotiate if the router is reset in the case of the client having a static IP, of at-all
<dwatkins> *if at-all
<daftykins> mapp: just to confirm, you have the wireless password inside /etc/network/interfaces ? so you don't use network manager at all?
<maps|wrk> forgot my sodding ip
<maps|wrk> 5ec3f432.skybroadband.com whats the ip
<maps|wrk> cant use / dns on webchat
<daftykins> sec
<maps|wrk> got it:D useddnssstuff
<daftykins> ^_^
<popey> heh
<popey> your ip is echo'ed here
<popey> 18:05:35 -!- maps|wrk [515ed518@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.94.213.24] has joined #ubuntu-uk
<maps|wrk> thats my work ip:P
<popey> ah â»
<maps|wrk> wanted to connect to my machine
<maps|wrk> crap
<maps|wrk> installed Zentyal and its taken over my apache
<maps|wrk> so i cant get to my shellinabox or qwebirc client..hmm
<maps|wrk> and i cant login to it..great
<maps|wrk> not what i wanted;/
<daftykins> doh!
<maps|wrk> https://94.195.244.50 works but yea its going to zentayl not my apache setup..removing it should fix this?
<daftykins> or just reconfigure it to run on another port so they can co-exist
<maps|wrk> and it doesnt appear to use the system u/p for access and i havent set anyt up so i cant login]
<maps|wrk> i cant do that now though
<maps|wrk> i also thought i had i selected port 444
<maps|wrk> ssl is 443 iirc?
<maps|wrk> but somehow it's working on https ,,., and my apache isnt listening on 8080?
<maps|wrk> ah well
<maps|wrk> got the tennis on at least and theres the big game later..just cant mess about with my machine ;/
<MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/microsoft-releases-source-code-for-ms-dos-and-word/
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: nice
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: lol @ the last paragraph
<diddledan> I'm thinking that if you're running XP for those 20 intervening years then you'll be sploited up the wazoo
<diddledan> heh, looks like it's popular - the backend is down
<diddledan> Error 503 Service Unavailable
<diddledan> complete with a guru meditation error
<daftykins> what is?
<diddledan> daftykins: http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/microsoft-ms-dos-early-source-code
<daftykins> ah ok the actual thing, silly me
<diddledan> yeah I wasn't clear that I'd clicked through :-p
<diddledan> this page works: http://www.computerhistory.org/press/ms-source-code.html
<daftykins> copying 170GB over USB 2 ;_;
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mArrNRWQEso
<diddledan> larry page on a ted video
<daftykins> wow he has an... odd voice
<diddledan> he had a condition which caused it a couple years ago
<daftykins> ah
<diddledan> he disappeared from the public eye because he was so self-conscious about it, and made a "comeback" at a google-io conference
<diddledan> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-14/larry-page-explains-why-he-lost-his-voice
<daftykins> day-um
<Saur0_> hi can anyone help me set up lvm with 4 x 4TB disks?
<daftykins> i was under the impression LVM will only pool the disks into one volume - it won't offer any safeguards against data loss?
<MartijnVdS> not necessarily
<diddledan> right lvm doesn't do redundancy by itself IIRC
<MartijnVdS> LVM can do striping
<MartijnVdS> lvcreate -i
<MartijnVdS> also -I
<daftykins> as in striping like RAID 0?
<daftykins> or with parity
<MartijnVdS> striping as in raid 1
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I think.. there's also -m for mirroring
<MartijnVdS> so.. I don't really know
<diddledan> raid 1 is mirroring
<MartijnVdS> lvm can do both I guess
<diddledan> so.. this is a bit of overkill for your tuesday evening: http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/25/titan-z/
<popey> golly
<daftykins> just need a small bank loan and a 2 foot desk fan to cool it
<diddledan> then there's their plans for 2016: http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/25/gpu-roadmap-pascal/
<diddledan> NVLink - 80GB/s interconnect between system and gfx instead of PCIe's 16GB/s
<diddledan> I wonder what AMD will do in response to that - means that mobos will only be able to support nV or AMD and not both
<daftykins> hrmm that doesn't sound too practical
<daftykins> i don't see intel accepting it
<daftykins> that silly social network sharing bar on the left is stopping me seeing the entire text
<diddledan> open the inspector and put a display:none on it's css
<daftykins> heh
<diddledan> or. get a bigger monitor
<daftykins> i browse with sort of just over half width ;)
<diddledan> well then, here's a radical idea - resize the window?
<daftykins> yes yes :P
<daftykins> more pointing out poor design
<diddledan> I have three monitors and it still isn't enough
<daftykins> yeah more display area is a slippery slope
<diddledan> I wonder if I can justify a 30" epeen?
<diddledan> erm.. monitor**
<daftykins> i'm not a fan of 30s, my client has one
<daftykins> you have to pan your head =/
<daftykins> much prefer my pair of 24s
<foobarry> 27 is nice
<diddledan> is that a mistake - latest updates to 14.04 have brought-in "browser" from touch
<diddledan> i.e. my desktop now has the touch browser in addition to firefox
<popey> diddledan: oxide
<popey> ?
<popey> hmm, i didnt get it
<diddledan> popey: in the dash it's listed as "browser" and in it's title bar it says "ubuntu browser"
<popey> oh, i have that
<diddledan> a load of qt5 came along with it
<popey> do you have aptitude installed?
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> it comes from the package "webbrowser-app"
<popey> ahh, webapp-container, thats why
<popey> yay
<popey> $ aptitude why webbrowser-app
<popey> i   webapp-container Depends webbrowser-app (= 0.23+14.04.20140319-0ubuntu1)
<diddledan> which is brought-in by qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-extras-browser-plugin
<diddledan> (I think)
<diddledan> might be the other way about, though, I suck at reading depends/rdepends output
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> I get that it's depended-on by unity-webapps-service which depends on webapp-container
<diddledan> I've installed aptitude now
<popey> â»
<diddledan> yeah it all drills back down to ubuntu-desktop
<diddledan> ubuntu-desktop -> unity-webapps-common -> unity-webapps-service -> webapp-container -> webbrowser-app
<diddledan> locally-integrated menus is doing something fun and new in the realm of menus - quite interesting that they're not actually an additional thing but hidden behind the title bar
<diddledan> kinda hybrid between ubuntu's hidden global menu and everyone and their dogs' window-integrated screen-real-estate-using menus
<diddledan> why am I lagging? I just got silenced for flooding #wordpress because of lag
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26723457
<diddledan> lol
<Azelphur> hmm...dunno if anyone has noticed this, but go to xubuntu.org, and look at the screenshot on the front page, specifically look at the date on the panel :P
<daftykins> Facebook to acquire Oculus
<daftykins> oooh dear
 * Azelphur is giggling at the silliness xubuntu snuck into the screenshots
<daftykins> Azelphur: ? :)
<daftykins> oh just saw above comment
<daftykins> hang on
<Azelphur> :P
<daftykins> Sex! D:
<Azelphur> haha
<bigcalm> ?
<daftykins> and slickymaster
<daftykins> bigcalm: http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/abiword_gnumeric.png
<Azelphur> at first I thought it was a non-english translation, but all the screenshots are clearly using the english dialect
<bigcalm> Nice :)
<bigcalm> Day of the week?
<Azelphur> subliminal messaging is what it is :P
<Azelphur> bigcalm: indeed
 * daftykins goes off with an inexplicable desire to find slickymaster
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> I need sex now
<Azelphur> careful, don't forget it's a PG channel
<diddledan> I mean, it's totally the right day of the week!
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> I wasn't going to involve the channel ;-)
<daftykins> * diddledan posts the statement to all his social networks
<diddledan> hmm, should I buy the humble ebook bungle?
<daftykins> sounds like it's doomed to fail if it's a bungle
<ali1234> xfce :)
<ali1234> that screenshot wasn't intentional
<ali1234> slickymaster isn't english
<ali1234> he changed the locale to do the screenshot, but the panel didn't update (would be my guess)
<ali1234> daftykins: you can find slickymaster in #xubuntu-dev, but the bug was already reported i think
<ali1234> as for facebook buying oculus... well i hope they fix the license on the SDK
<ali1234> it's a horrible crayon license currently, which is basically "BSD but we can revoke your rights to use it at any time for any reason"
<ali1234> yeah, "sex" is portuguese for "fri"(day)
<daftykins> wow
<daftykins> that's quite a cunning association
<diddledan> I prefer to see it as a reminder
<diddledan> :-p
<ali1234> in portuguese apparently the says are called "first day", "second day" etc
<ali1234> and sunday is first day of the week
<diddledan> how simple
<diddledan> first day, second day, through to sex day and seventh day
<daftykins> client of mine likes Sunday as the first
<ali1234> sexta-feira literally means "sixth day"
<daftykins> but it's the week-END !?
<ali1234> daftykins: yeah i know right?
<daftykins> btw i would like to make you gentlemen jealous
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/am3xgv5iyllpo9f/IMG_20140325_212753.jpg
<diddledan> it's melting
<daftykins> by design sir, by design
<diddledan> I wont say that it looks like an orange atop a turd
<diddledan> :-p
<ali1234> is that toffee pudding with a treacle sponge on top?
<diddledan> silly restaurants and their candle illumination ruining photos
<diddledan> ali1234: isn't that what I said? :-p
<daftykins> sticky toffee pudding with vanilla ice cream
<diddledan> ice cream ftw!
<daftykins> silly restaurants and their 'we can't afford lighting' approach most times, even
<diddledan> ice cream is awesome
<diddledan> it's almost as good as what happens on fridays
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<popey> bigcalm: pong
<bigcalm> Hazar
<daftykins> geek pr0n anyone?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t0y7csfxl6pvbh9/IMG_20140325_230157.jpg
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9gy5ueruvzg93d0/IMG_20140325_230610.jpg
<shauno> I .. uhm .. question your taste
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> yeah a lowly acer 15.6" surely isn't my idea of a good one
<daftykins> but hey, a task is a task
<shauno> it's more the dust that turned me off
<daftykins> i've seen quite a few of these 5000 series
<daftykins> had those two that required new DC jacks a bit ago
<shauno> this is my nekkid toys for the day :)  https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1655995_10153981281380578_1484815336_n.jpg
<shauno> a day off quite successfully wasted
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> just messing about or got a project on the go?
<shauno> just put a kit together.  pretty thought-free, but I'm really out of practice, so it was entertaining
<bigcalm> People with SIP experience. Why would an ekiga.net account not be able to call a sipgate.co.uk account and visa versa?
<daftykins> shauno: neat - what does it do? :)
<shauno> it beeps!
<daftykins> :O
<bigcalm> Does it have a blue led?
<shauno> no :(
<bigcalm> Pants
<shauno> :(  sorry
<bigcalm> Hehe
<daftykins> go to your room XD
<daftykins> hmm still hitting high temps, i'll save it for tomorrow to replace the thermal paste
<daftykins> i don't like doing full disassemblies too late at night, i forget things the next day when putting them back together :D
<bigcalm> Wow, it's late. Sleep now
<daftykins> indeed!
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-26
<shauno> morning is overrated :/
<diddledan> shauno: so is sleep
<diddledan> shauno: I've been on US netflix because IPv6 ftw
<diddledan> just discovered "chuck"
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: US netflix because ipv6?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: oh you're using a US broker?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: they don't know that IPv6 may be globally distributed
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I have ipv6, but I get Dutch netflix
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> odd
<MartijnVdS> I have native v6 from my ISP though
<diddledan> I'm definitely on US netflix and the only reason I can put it down to is that I've got IPv6
<diddledan> but yes it's ipv6 from tunnelbroker.net but using the london exchange
<MartijnVdS> I've heard it's a DNS thing. So if you're using nameservers over IPv6, which has an endpoint in the US, you'll get the US netflix servers
<MartijnVdS> maybe the geoip of your net is in the US, and it's luck
<mapp> hello
<mapp> shauno do you ever sleep!! and diddledan you two are always around
<mapp> and diddledan chuck is cool and Sarah is SO HOT
<diddledan> mapp: yeah, I'm in love with sarah now
<mapp> shes in dexter too and in the new 24
<mapp> she's stunning
<jussi> morning ladles and gentlespoons
<mapp> morning jussi
<jussi> morning mapp
<diddledan> do we know each other well enough for gentle spooning?
<MooDoo> hello all
<jussi> diddledan: does it even matter? :P
<diddledan> well if the offer's there I won't complain; I'll just have to suffer through it
<foobarry> http://exposingthetruth.today/guy-took-two-lighters-apart-seems-impossible-whoa.html
<shauno> fwiw, netflix doesn't use geoip.  it does do funky stuff with dns, but the client IP disnae matter
<MartijnVdS> shauno: no, but their DNS server gives different answers based on source IP or something
<shauno> right.  where they think your dns server is matters more than where they think you are
<shauno> which is quite annoying if you're using google's dns servers :(  because they're anycasted, you have very little control over which/where you'll actually connect to.  so my netflix "flaps" between netflix-ireland and netflix-UK based on what I assume to be wind direction
<MartijnVdS> shauno: not the phase of the moon? ;)
<shauno> I Wish.  it's way worse than that
<shauno> eg, sit down and watch a TV show.  then the next episode.  then when you try to load the third, you're told that series never existed.  these aren't the droids you're looking for.
<MartijnVdS> heh
<shauno> but here, it's either that, or my ISP's narcoleptic dns servers.  so the third episode would instead be "internet? what internet"
<MartijnVdS> shauno: what kind of ISP is that?
<MartijnVdS> also you could set up your own recursive dns server if you wanted..
<jussi> foobarry: I really hate those "sensationalist" titles - but nice story in anycase
<shauno> lol, UPC.  I think they're dutch?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they're multinational
<MartijnVdS> shauno: but from what I've seen their DNS is ok
<diddledan> had to be the bloody dutch
<MartijnVdS> UPC and Ziggo are the worst ISPs in the country.. speeds are fine, but cable internet.. *shudder*
<MartijnVdS> no static IPs, locked down routers/modems, etc.
<MartijnVdS> Can't get internet without also getting TV and phone service from them
<shauno> they're about the only sensible offer here
<foobarry> jussi: yeah^2
<shauno> (and the router/modem is very easily hacked  heh)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that's the problem -- for most people they're the only option to get >10mbit
<MartijnVdS> shauno: good thing I live in an area where fibre was rolled out as well :)
<MartijnVdS> Media converter, PPPoE, BOOM internet :)
<shauno> right.  here, I have the option of 3mbit, 120mbit, or DSL
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I have the option of 10 mbit DSL, 100/100 fibre or 100/20 cable
<MartijnVdS> (or 50/10 cable or something)
<shauno> but the router/modem gizmo - the option to stick it into passthrough / modem-only mode is commented out in the html.  so thanks to webkit/chrome/etc being quite happy to edit the page on-the-fly, it's an easy fix
<shauno> delete the comment, tick the box, hit apply :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Cisco 3925 or something?
<shauno> it's a (linksys-)cisco something, yeah.  couldn't tell you the model without going home
<MartijnVdS> I'd like to know if it's the same model as they're using here :)
<MartijnVdS> because I know 2 places with those modems that I REALLY want to be in Bridge mode :)
<shauno> it looks like it should be epc3925, but I'll check when I get home
<knightwise> morning
<MartijnVdS> shauno: forum posts about editing the HTML exist.. will try that, thanks :)
<shauno> the other fun thing I found is that when you stick it in bridge mode, upc will happily assign public IPs to each device you plug into the 4 enet ports on the back :)
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<shauno> well I hope it works for you.  once you find where they've 'disabled' features, it's embarassingly easy
<knightwise> morning everyone :)
<knightwise> Hey MartijnVdS shauno !
<shauno> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<jussi> popey: I know you love reading about 3D printer wins, so here you are: http://www.policymic.com/articles/83177/in-an-amazing-surgical-procedure-3d-printing-a-child-s-heart-saves-his-life
<jussi> :D
<popey> heh
<popey> do i?
<jussi> popey:  it certainly appears so from this side of the channel...
<diplo> Morning all
<jussi> diplo: morning
<bashrc> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Purple Day! :-D
<jussi> JamesTait: to you also :D
<jussi> its a wonderful day here, sunshine, blue sky
<diplo> Grey and misty here today :/
<jussi> one of those days where you want to put good music on loud and dance. or get out and go for a walk in the bush. or just call in sick and go enjoy it.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<jussi> morning brobostigon
<jussi> as you all might have notice, Im feeling happy and positive :D
<brobostigon> morning jussi
<jussi> Its a good day!
<JamesTait> It's a bit hazy and quite chilly here this morning, but it's still a good day. :)
<jussi> https://plus.google.com/105591405032610694021/posts/Jm7uWRd2vfY
<foobarry> is it possible to get a hot/stuck pixel on a brand new laptop because the delivery guy dumped them off his trolley onto the floor?
<jussi> have I mentioned yet how much I hate flash ?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: several times.
<jussi> MartijnVdS: although I think theres a bug with this PC somewhere - its not _that_ old, and doesnt do full screen flash
<jussi> Thank god for HTML5 youtube
<MartijnVdS> jussi: what kind of graphics chip does it have?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: Nvidia
<jussi> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation G98M [Quadro NVS 160M] (rev a1)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: free or non-free drivers?
<jussi> non free
<jussi> graphic performance isnt absolutely fantastic either so I suspect something related to that
<jussi> Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     P8700  @ 2.53GHz - not the newest machine around, but ok
<dwatkins> jussi: what Flash version is installed?
<dwatkins> also, does the hardware acceleration option make a difference (in the right-click menu)?
<foobarry> got a new work laptop \o/
<jussi> dwatkins: its using HW acceleration already and still jumpy
<foobarry> Latitude E7440
<dwatkins> jussi: I had similar issues a while back, turned off HW acceleration and it worked better.
<jussi> dwatkins: sadly that is worse if anything
<foobarry> how do i install windows if there is no dvd drive? windows doesn't install off usb afaik
<MartijnVdS> USB DVD drive
<jussi> foobarry: it does install from usb now adays
<foobarry> jussi: really? how do i prep the usb stick?
<foobarry> this is for windows 7
<dwatkins> foobarry: I've installed Windows 7 from a USB drive, check out YUMI.
<jussi> foobarry: sec, Ive instructions
<foobarry> http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/html/pbPage.Help_Win7_usbdvd_dwnTool
<jussi> foobarry: that, or http://paste.ubuntu.com/7155791/
<foobarry> the MS link was garbage
<foobarry> thanks
<jussi> yay for aussie/english style sausages!
<jussi> (home made of course)
<MartijnVdS> Ausages!
<jussi> not overly pretty, but taste good: http://jussi01.com/upload/uploads/20140326-103420-20140326_123422.jpg
<popey> dammit I want sausages now
<jussi> :D
<jussi> popey: off you go to the shop
<popey> s/shop/kitchen/
<jussi> popey: actually, you know what, just go get a sausage and bacon sandwich... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<popey> mmm bacon
<jussi> :D
<jussi> yay, I inspired someone with food that I made! :D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<jussi> afternoon bigcalm
<bigcalm> What's happening jussi?
<dwatkins> ...and now I'm hungry
<jussi> bigcalm: work work work, and do not shirk :D
<bigcalm> Boo
<bigcalm> I'm having a joyous time with unit tests
<bigcalm> I may not be telling the truth
<MartijnVdS> \o/ unit tests
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if you write your code in the right way, tests are *easy*
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: yeah, about that :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: but unittest are easy does x do y yes pass :)
<bigcalm> Yes, testing is easy. It's annoying that testing shows errors in code requiring fixes :)
<bigcalm> TDD
<MartijnVdS> but after that, you'll never have to worry again
<foobarry> windows touchpad driver. 60MB
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: wow, that's almost as much as a printer drivr
<MartijnVdS> +e
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah so TDD you start with the test that is meant to fail, then you write the code to fix the test then everything is good :P
<bashrc> supposedly yes
<bashrc> I usually write the code and then write tests for hte major parts of it to check that it does what I think it's supposed to be doing
<diplo> See if you guys have any suggestions on this for me. We're a small development company but we also do emails etc for all our customers (( about 80-90 ) currently we do this via a small mini itx system running SME Server ( rubbish don't ask! ) and my boss doesn't want to support them anymore
<bigcalm> Off load to gmail
<diplo> Looking at ways of moving away from them, my suggestions so far have been we have one centralised email server to host all customer emails or using an external sercvice as a reseller
<diplo> Can anyone recommend anything
<diplo> Google Business thing bigcalm ?
<BigRedS> I'm trying to work out the peak memory usage of a process, is there a tool for doing that?
<diplo> I know there are companies out there that offer email services, just wondering if anyone can recommend anything
<BigRedS> I'm envisaging something like time, but for memory
<diplo> BigRedS: use something like rrd tools with monit etc?
<BigRedS> it's too short to rely on something that polls /proc or whatever I think
<bigcalm> munin - log ALL the things! http://banana.cuth.eu/munin/cuth.eu/banana.cuth.eu/index.html
<bashrc> diplo: it's relatively straightforward to set up an email server with mailing lists and so on
<BigRedS> though apparenly 'memusg' is a thing
<diplo> bashrc: yeah I know, but I guess I'll need some sort of redundancy as well as instead of having 70+ boxes
<diplo> it'll all be hosted on one machine, so have any issues and all customers are affected instead of one
<BigRedS> diplo: it's normal to have one mailserver and one backupmx that just accepts mail for all the domains on the former and stores it until it comes back
<BigRedS> it's fairly easy to get postfix to do that, for example. load-balanced mailservers are far rarer than webservers
<diplo> OK, what about spam etc, how do others deal with that ? Do you use your own spamassasin boxes or outsource it to companies like messagelabs ?
<BigRedS> We have a pair of spam filter appliances that we pay for someone else to develop/maintain
<BigRedS> but we have a few hundred mail domains
<BigRedS> historically spamd on each mailserver, but spam's such a boring problem I'd generally advise people to outsource it
<diplo> Yeah that's the point I was trying to get across to my boss, it's quite high maintenance from what I had before
<diplo> I was spending forever writing new rules all the time
<BigRedS> mail in general is fragile, has delayed-response to fixes, utterly boring and absolutely depended upon. If offering it isn't the core of your business it's normally best to get someone else to run it
<diplo> yeah, that's how I feel BigRedS. The guys in my office aren't that techy, they can fix what they can fix but they can't trace issues etc and I'm not sure I want to be the admin of all this
<diplo> :)
<dwatkins> we outsource to postini
<dwatkins> for spam filtering, that is
<diplo> Ah, I was trying to remember there name!
<diplo> ta
<dwatkins> they're generally pretty good - I get a notification if someone's sent me an attachment it doesn't like the smell of, and a summary each night.
<dwatkins> Sometimes a mail will fail to arrive and I don't know about it, that's the only trouble, but you can whitelist senders such as list servers.
<diplo> And you jus thost your own mailserver ?
<jussi> diplo: their ;)
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Typing quickly I suck sometimes :/
<dwatkins> yeah, postini is on our MX record, and it forwards to our office365 server, I assume.
<dwatkins> outsourcing all th things...
<diplo> I either want to do our sysadmin full time or basically not be involved.. I think the latter will be the end result
<dwatkins> I enjoyed being sysadmin for a small company, not sure I'd want to do it for a larger organisation, as there would be a lot of "sorry, not my remit, please log a case with the IT team"
<diplo> Yeah I've never been in that size of company. The last place was around 800 users and about 60 servers with 2 of us doing most of the work, hosting everything locally until we outsourced spam to messagelabs
<diplo> This company is only 17 ish people and about 80-90 customers, most of which are small and have some sort of mail setup with us
<jussi> I think some of you might enjoy this: http://www.businessinsider.com/communication-charts-around-the-world-2014-3
<MartijnVdS> jussi: Finnish -> perkele?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: stop just shouting out whatever swear words you know :P
<MartijnVdS> jussi: well, it's "business insider" and I know there's a term for the "Finnish" style of management,
<jussi> heh
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvidoBBJSRA the Finns
<SuperMatt> hey guys
<foobarry> hello
<popey> yo
<MartijnVdS> nn
<MartijnVdS> gah wrong window
<SuperMatt> I'm being a broken record today, but has anyone mentioned the release party yet?
<SuperMatt> we're only a month away now
<popey> i dont think so
<SuperMatt> wait... we're like 2 weeks away!
<SuperMatt> 3 weeks even, I misread
<foobarry> agh unetbootin not recognising usb drives
<SuperMatt> anyone got any pub suggestions?
<jussi> popey: hehe, yeah, bit like that :P
<mapp> afternoon
 * bigcalm grumbles at popey
<popey> what?
<bigcalm> I'm still stuck on slow 60mb
<popey> haha
<popey> mine was automagically updated
<popey> i did nothing
<bigcalm> You lived in the right location, damn you!
<popey> internet went down at 00:30 last night while I was watching a film on netflix.. i thought "meh" and went to sleep
<popey> woke up with 100Mb â»
<bigcalm> Nice
<dwatkins> hooray
<dwatkins> (unless that's 100 MB of your 100 MB cap used up)
<popey> http://www.speedtest.net/result/3396945987.png
<mapp> im stuck on 6mbit ;(
<mapp> faster than 83% of tyhe uk!
<mapp> popey is that is :)
<bashrc> oh, we dreamed of getting 6mbit
<davmor2> popey: ah that was your twitter messages with @virginmedia then :)
<popey> yeah
<davmor2> mapp: popey is no way faster than 83% of the uk, have you ever seen popey run?
<popey> true
<mapp> crazy Â£600,000 on one race at Lingfield the sheer volumesof moneys disgusting
<davmor2> mapp: but that could be 600,000 people betting a pound in the hope that they get 20 :)
<mapp> Perhaps but seems unlikely..betfaor would crash with that
<mapp> and its 2 quid minimum:P
<mapp> heh
<davmor2> mapp: okay 300,000 going for forty quid :P
<davmor2> popey: not had my upgrade yet  http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3397146775
<mapp> and the tennis you get like 7million on the big ATP matches
<mapp> djokovic v murray will be millions later
<mapp> anyway i should probably try and fix my problem rather than wasting time
<mapp> how cna i get rid of zentayl? its taken over my apache;/ but apt-get found nothing..cant remember how i instaled it
<diplo> I guess it's a extra repo in /etc/apt ?
<mapp> ahh yes
<mapp> i think i did that
<mapp> wouldnt that show when i do apt-get remove
<mapp> wouldnt it find the package?
<diplo> Well from when I remember looking at Zentyal it uses default packages but controls them differently
<mapp> i had apache working fine installed zentyal and now its running but apache isnt..
<mapp> hmm not sure how to remove it then:)
<diplo> It used to be called ebox, not sure of what it's called now
<diplo> dpkg --list | grep -i zenty
<diplo> ?
<mapp> i just want apache back to how it was..I did chose a different port for zentyal too not sure why its using ssl (443?) and
<mapp> so its using https right but my apache doesnt work on non https anymoe either?
<diplo> Have you checked your logs to see if there are errors like port conflicts etc
<mapp> err thats odd
<diplo> So if Zentyal is running somethin gon port 80 and your apache is starting on 80 it wont
<mapp> it even says httpd is running..so why would httpd apache not work on 8080 when zentyl is only using https?
<mapp> its not though..its only using https nothing happens on 80/8080
<diplo> iptables on ?
<mapp> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7157105/
<mapp> nope
<mapp> its def zentyal was all working fine before so i figure il remove it and start again - although as i say if its only working on https:// i dont see why it screws up non https
<mapp> https://frogs.zapto.org/
<diplo> Could be listening on there to redirect or something
<mapp> yea7
<mapp> but
<diplo> hah, I have a zapto.org one as well
<mapp> http://frogs.zapto.org/ has NOTHING
<mapp> doesnt even redir
<mapp> setup the noip2 linux client too incase my ip changes
<diplo> Just nmapping that host a mo
<diplo> 80/tcp   closed http
<mapp> hmm
<diplo> iptables -L ?
<mapp> sec
<diplo> Or are you using ufw ?
<mapp> nop
<mapp> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7157123/
<mapp> just fail2ban , had that setup for ages and all worked and nothing there
<mapp> maybe if i remove zentyal-core/comon?
<diplo> Could be, but something is stopping port 80
<mapp> ok lets see
<mapp> fixed
<mapp> :D
<mapp> removed zentyal-core/common and restarted httpd
<mapp> http://frogs.zapto.org/
<diplo> hah, like the message
<foobarry> i appear to have been given a pc that doesn't have drivers for ethernet or wifi
<foobarry> on linux
<MartijnVdS> maybe it just needs the firmware package and you don't have it?
<MartijnVdS> can you lspci?
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> 00:19.0 ethernet controller intel copr device 155a (rev 04)
<MartijnVdS> you'd think that was supported.. Intel LAN usually is
<MartijnVdS> maybe your kernel is just too old to have the proper driver
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> can't update without wifi or eth
<bigcalm> Add a CD source?
<MartijnVdS> or just download the .deb onto a USB stick and dpkg
<bigcalm> Aye, that one would be simpler
<foobarry> noicd drive
<foobarry> i need dkms
<MartijnVdS> usb stick?
<foobarry> does dkms have deps
<MartijnVdS> yes it needs a compiler, among some other things
<bigcalm> foobarry: 'cd' is just generic term for external physical media
<foobarry> ihave gcc
<MartijnVdS> you need the new kernel .deb and reboot. Done.
<mapp> what spec foobarry
<foobarry> cpu etc?
<foobarry> the model is e7440
<mapp> ya
<foobarry> dell
<foobarry> how do i download with apt-get without install?
<foobarry> to get the new lts kernel
<popey> I'd wget it
<popey> from the kernel ppa
<foobarry> linux-image-generic-lts-saucy?
<popey> stick it on a usb and dpkg -i it
<foobarry> if i can find the right version i'll try that.
<popey> what version of ubuntu is on it?
<foobarry> 12.04.
<popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.13.7-trusty/
<popey> grab the right bits from there, i386 or amd64
<popey> and headers, so should need 3 packages, then dpkg -i *.deb
<foobarry> great, thanks
<foobarry> have a feeling this will fix the lack of drivers
<foobarry> trusty kernels ok to install on 12.04?
<popey> should be fine
<popey> as a means to bootstrap yourself up to having working kernel
<popey> s/kernel/network/
<foobarry> didn't work :(
<popey> define "work"
<popey> did it install?
<bigcalm> Anybody used "blink" SIP client?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no
<neuro> aaaaagh
<dwatkins> no, but I can give it a try at home later on
<neuro> ubuntuuuuu *shakes fist*
<davmor2> bigcalm: and erm Don't Blink ;)
<neuro> stupid bloomin' "oh hey let's remove the cacert CA pem, you know, for giggles"
 * neuro pictures canonical employees sitting around a desk somewhere, giggling like schoolkids
<neuro> tee hee hee hee
<davmor2> neuro: no that was popey wondering if he could bring you to tears honest
<foobarry> popey: sorry was rushing to meeting.
<foobarry> eth0 works, no wifi yet. unfortuantely networks team haven't done my dhcp yet so i can't proceed until they sort it
<popey> bigcalm: whats wrong with ekiga?
<bigcalm> popey: looking at different clients :)
<foobarry> gonna reboot with wifi switch enabled
<davmor2> bigcalm: I gave you a nice list yesterday :P
<foobarry> nah, still no wifi worky...weird
<davmor2> foobarry: it is turned on right?
<bigcalm> davmor2: which you have used yourself?
<foobarry> davmor2: i believe so
<davmor2> bigcalm: I've used the ones I highlighted when empathy broke calls and the dialer so I couldn't get into the conf call so used the others till it got fixed.  IIRC SLFPhone was the nicest however it caused some echo feedback.  You might want to look at https://jitsi.org/ too
<bigcalm> jitsi was last touched in 2005 when I looked at their website
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> I must have been looking at something else
<bigcalm> Anyway. Just looking around at different options :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: https://download.jitsi.org/jitsi/nightly/debian/
<diplo> Jitsi got the best review in a LXF recently
<diplo> not tried it myself yet
<davmor2> bigcalm: jitsi has been recommended as a skype replacement all over the place
<bigcalm> Okay, I might look at the weekend :)
<foobarry> hey, got my wifi working http://askubuntu.com/questions/322511/no-wireless-with-intel-centrino-advanced-n-7260
<foobarry> needed the firmware
<foobarry> in /lib/firmware
<popey> of course.
<foobarry> this is like the old days
<foobarry> all over again
<davmor2> foobarry: did you not have a look at additional devices ;)
<foobarry> was not an option
<foobarry> i had to copy a ucode file into /lib/firmware manually
<directhex> foobarry, linux-firmware 1.10, in precise-updates, contains iwlwifi-7260-7.ucode
<foobarry> ok, thanks
<foobarry> i had no wired or wireless..
<foobarry> "linux firmware is already the newest version"
<foobarry> ah, in precise updates
<foobarry> i have 1.79.6
<directhex> gah, sorry, not nonfree
<foobarry> intel are evil now?
<directhex> 1.79.10 then i think
<popey> maybe you needed new linux-firmware given you're on a newer kernel
<popey> from the future
<popey> 1.126 here
 * foobarry needs a lie down
 * dwatkins needs a shut down
<directhex> point is, every ubuntu version can work with it, given an appropriate kernel package and firmware package
<foobarry> and manual tinkering
<foobarry> :D
<directhex> no manual tinkering
<foobarry> well yes, since i had to copy the working kernel and firmware via usb
<foobarry> since the ethernet onboard doesn't work OOTB either
<popey> what ethernet is it onboard?
<popey> lshw -C network
<popey> lshw -C network | grep product
<foobarry> intel corporation
<foobarry> 00:19.0
<foobarry> works in the kernel from the future, which is fair enough
<popey> thats the physical ID, surely
<popey> not the device type
<foobarry> since 12.04 precedes the laptop birth
<foobarry> product = Intel Corporation
<popey> how was it installed?
<foobarry> usb
<popey> lsb_release -a
<popey> what does that say?
<popey> for Release
<foobarry> elementary OS :D
<popey> jeez
<foobarry> but its pronounced ubuntu
<popey> should have said that at the start
<foobarry> oh sorry, whats the diff?
<foobarry> 12.04.x instalelr has loads of new gubbins?
<popey> yes
<popey> thats the point of point releases
<popey> if you get my point
<foobarry> point taken
<popey> it has newer kernel baked in for exactly this issue
 * foobarry apologises and thanks everyone for the help
<popey> well, its working now which is yay
<foobarry> 768 pixels...they didn't buy me the 1080p one :(
 * directhex can't shake the feeling foobarry installed the same or similar dell today
<foobarry> as you?
<directhex> yeah
<foobarry> e7440
<directhex> yeah
<directhex> ubuntu certified for 12.04.2 and above
<foobarry> gotta go home now , but if you discover anything useful please pm :D
<daftykins> i've just had a really nasty issue at a clients i couldn't work out for the life of me
<daftykins> Firefox and Chrome using the HTML5 video player on youtube worked fine
<daftykins> but flash across firefox and internet explorer wouldn't work at all =|
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/d1ecavpa7du2yfx/VID_20140326_145009.mp4
<daftykins> there's one vid
<daftykins> and another showing that the ads play fine, then the videos fail!? https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyhkvhiyaxkjud4/VID_20140326_155518.mp4
<daftykins> tried different user accounts, different browser profiles, clean installs of browsers, clean installs of flash player
<daftykins> all no-go
<bigcalm> davmor2: good news and bad news
<bigcalm> davmor2: good news is that my car is fixed
<bigcalm> davmor2: bad news is it cost Â£220
<bigcalm> Daviey: joining us for the RAT this year?
<bigcalm> Wonder how many peeps we can fit in one booth
<mapp> hmm
<mapp> strongbow citrus
<mapp> never seen that before.picked up 8 cans at sainsburys
<mapp> maybe id be enjoying camptain america more if id drunk them by now..pretty boring imo
<Daviey> bigcalm... eeek. not bought ticket yet
<Daviey> plan to
<mapp> ah RAT i was thinking abut that
<mapp> its ages away anyway?
<davmor2> bigcalm: 220 isn't that bad
<bigcalm> !rat | Daviey
<lubotu3> Daviey: rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
 * bigcalm heads off to the M6 for Goldfrapp at the Symfony Hall
<Daviey> bigcalm, i know what it is numnuts.
<bigcalm> Link for you :P
<bigcalm> *gone*
<Daviey> ah fanks
 * directhex hits a popey bug
<popey> uhoh
<davmor2> directhex: don't hit popey 's bug they take enough punishment from us
<directhex> chrome no worky in guest session
<popey> ah that classic
 * popey sits back with a pipe
<directhex> on trusty this time
<popey> still broken?
 * popey tests
<davmor2> I remember when I were lad and chrome did na work in guest session
<popey> ok, chromium works, chrome doesnt
<davmor2> </hovis_ad_music>
<popey> directhex: got a bug number?
<directhex> 577919
<directhex> chromium works, chrome doesn't?!?
<popey> yes
<popey> for me
<popey> (on trusty)
<directhex> oh. it's fixed by /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/lightdm_chromium-browser but that hardcodes chromium
<directhex> nggggggggggggggggg
<popey> well that sucks
<popey> bug 577919
<directhex> i'll just handwrite an abstraction for chrome & pop it in place
<lubotu3> bug 577919 in gdm-guest-session (Ubuntu) "chromium-browser fails to start (guest account, OpenVZ): "Failed to move to new PID namespace: Operation not permitted"" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/577919
<popey> ok
<popey> will file a bug and get it sorted, thanks for letting me know
<directhex> will go test
<popey> directhex: bug 1298021 fyi
<lubotu3> bug 1298021 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Google Chrome (not chromium) won't start in guest session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298021
<smittix> Evening all
<popey> hey
<smittix> popey: Do you recommend BitFolk then? I am in the market for a VPS
<popey> yes, totally
<smittix> Cool
<mapp> evening smittix
<foobarry> directhex: did you run into the issue i read on archlinux wiki that unless you boot the e7440 on ac power , your gpu performance sucks, and you can't get it back unless you boot with ac power?
<balor> What is the http .deb cache thingy called?  I've got to install 20 machines, but don't want to pull down all the debs 20 times.  Would rather cache them locally.
<shauno> squid-deb-proxy is the one I usually end up with.  I think there's a couple others though
<balor> shauno, thanks
<mapp> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3z4NMWdTcg
<mapp> ABERRICAN ME - Ross Capicchioni - Part 1
<directhex> foobarry, didn't notice. it's for work not games
<mapp> hmm
<neuro> hmm?
<mapp> just hnm, what to do
<mapp> do i go to Spurs v Sunderland or not
<neuro> are you a fan of either team?
<mapp> well no..but a friend is coming tot he UK and wants to see it..and he bought tickets..already said id go to manchester v sunderland thing is right
<mapp> i can get to London for 3pm...book in advance 37 quid..game time 8pm..last train from euston 10;50
<mapp> i wont be able to get from white hart lane to euston in time
<neuro> 21st century problems
<neuro> :)
<mapp> so do i go and leave early..or do i stay in London and try to find a cheap crap hotel OR just go to the 24hour casino in leicester sq?
<mapp> and i cant get back till 8am.the 5/6am trains are mad expensive..no cheap tickets till 8
<neuro> pointless to go to a game and leave early
<mapp> agreed
<mapp> id have spent like 110+ too
<mapp> 37 quid each way +35 quid ticket+ anything else
<neuro> i was at a celtic v hearts game where we were two nil down
<neuro> loads of folk left about 80-85 mins in
<neuro> we scored 3 goals in the last 7 minutes
<mapp> hahaha
<mapp> i remember my friend saying his dad tuned the united game off when united were losing..in a bad mood all day thinking they'd lost..when they had won last minute goals
<mapp> LOL
<neuro> exactly :)
<mapp> but then a hotel adds exta costs, and if i stay at the casino from like 11-7am i cant not drink or buy any food so thats extra money ..so it's not ideal either way
<mapp> with manchester i can get a taxi back to stoke worst case for about 35 quid
<neuro> if you've already spent a ton of cash, then just commit to it
<daftykins> football boooooo
<neuro> maybe someone you know in the area would let you crash for the night?
<mapp> watched 1st captain america today
<mapp> let down
<neuro> daftykins: woooo
<neuro> really?
<neuro> REALLY?
<neuro> lies
<mapp> dont know anyone  in london really
<mapp> yea
<mapp> i didnt think much of it
<mapp> take it you loved it
<mapp> lol
<neuro> heathen
<neuro> i didn't love it, but i enjoyed it
<neuro> takes a lot for me to love a movie
<mapp> was going to go see captain america 2 today but my friend said he was seeing his ex..and no point using 2 41 fo just me:)
<daftykins> one seat for you, one for all the snacks you buy \o/
<neuro> you were going to see the sequel not having seen the first one?
<mapp> no neuro
<mapp> thats why i watched the 1st earlier
<mapp> lol
<neuro> oh
<neuro> i went to see pirates of the caribbean 3 having only read the wikipedia plot synopsis for part 2 (i'd seen part 1 years earlier)
<mapp> haha
<daftykins> i've not seen any of those
<mapp> ive seen 1
<mapp> 1st
<neuro> i'm pretty sure i went to see it the same day I got back from SF
<neuro> 13 hr flight from SFO to LHR, 2 hr stop, 1 hr flight from LHR to GLA, 1 hr faff in airport, 30 minutes to get home, 4, maybe 5 hrs tops in the house, then out to see movie
<neuro> all i remember is the swirly bit when the boats are in the swirly thing
<neuro> and something to do with singapore
<neuro> that's it
<daftykins> cor you wouldn't have had me going anywhere after all that :D
<neuro> yeah, i was pretty much dead on my feet
<daftykins> :D
<mapp> ugh
<mapp> my friend went to Bahamas went Manchester -> Holland Holland -> somewhere us us -> bahamas
<mapp> ended up like 20hours of stopover
<mapp> lol
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> i think i'd go mad
<daftykins> limbo time is always so >_<
<mapp> yep  like 6hours at hollad lol
<neuro> schiphol?
<mapp> i havent had any stop overs but only been holland/czech/majorca
<mapp> yea neuro
<neuro> niiiice
<mapp> quite a big airport
<neuro> schiphol is a quality airport
<neuro> six hours between flights would be brill
<mapp> all ive had is like the 2hour wait after i get there to get on the plan..i dont take a suitcase for 5-7days so dont need to even check in:P
<mapp> LOL
<mapp> id rather not
<neuro> i had a stop in LHR which was so short, not only did I not make it to the connecting flight, but neither did my bags
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-27
<neuro> yay, it's officially pay day! (for me)
<mapp> ;]
<mapp> yay
<mapp> lol thats so stupud how did that happen neuro
<Azelphur> ali1234: hey, you alive?
<ali1234> sure
<Azelphur> ali1234: got a couple random questions about netbooting, figured you'd have all the answers
<ali1234> maybe
<Azelphur> 1) Can I set my router (openwrt) up so that I netboot from a machine in the network that isn't the router?, 2) I'm thinking it would be cool to set up some kind of system where I can just throw a ISO in a folder and have it automatically available for netboot, is something like this possible?
<Azelphur> I've noticed pxe has some iso options, so I could probably just automatically generate the config file
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> sweet :)
<ali1234> why wouldn't you?
<Azelphur> well because in all the googling I've done, nobody seems to be doing it like that for some reason
<neuro> crazy awake people at 3am ...
<ali1234> how else would they do it?
<ali1234> i don't understand what the router has got to do with it?
<Azelphur> ali1234: it seems like most people extract the ISO and serve it direct from a folder, and only do one operating system, the few multiboot setups I've seen do the same
<ali1234> you "netboot" grub and it does the rest
<Azelphur> oh, I wasn't sure if I could have the netboot server be the machine that isn't the DHCP server
<ali1234> sure
<Azelphur> which is why I mentioned
<neuro> can be anything running tftp
<neuro> or whatever
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> I shall play with this some more I suppose, then :)
<ali1234> you don't even need the router to do the initial dhcp request
<Azelphur> oh?
<ali1234> you can have multiple dhcp servers on a network
<Azelphur> really? I thought that broke the universe?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> as long as you configure them so they don't step on each other's toes
<neuro> not if they're configured correctly
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> istr that pxe dhcp requests are "different" somehow
<ali1234> so they won't pick up an IP from a "normal" server
<Azelphur> ah
<ali1234> so if your second dhcp server only serves pxe requests, there will be no conflict
<ali1234> i'm not 100% sure about this though
<Azelphur> and if my first server doesn't serve pxe requests, I assume
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> anyway, I'll try and take the easiest route to success, as this is all learning curve for me
<ali1234> well, no
<ali1234> your first server could answer the pxe request with an ip allocation but if it doesn't also specify the PXE boot files, the cliet will just ignore it
<ali1234> i think, anyway
<Azelphur> ah :P
<neuro> sounds like things are getting unnecessarily complicated :)
<Azelphur> indeed, hehe
<ali1234> yeah if you have openwrt just use that
<Azelphur> ali1234: well, I'd require additional hardware, plus I have a home server, I figure it's better to have all the ISOs (And scripts for generating menu configs) on there.
<ali1234> if you had some stupid manufacturer firmware it might be harder
<Azelphur> the router has no mass storage :)
<ali1234> sure but you can put the tftp server elsewhere
<neuro> you don't need the storage on the router
<Azelphur> oh, I see
<neuro> next-server 192.168.whatever.whatever;
<ali1234> my suggestion to you is "try it"
<neuro> filename "pxelinux.0";
<neuro> boom
<ali1234> and watch what happens with tcpdump/wireshark
<Azelphur> I am, been reading a lot of stuff and trying some things :P
<ali1234> yes, "next-server"
<ali1234> if the PXE gets a response that does not have a "next-server" then it should just ignore it
<ali1234> i once had a computer that could only pxe boot from a novell netware server
<Azelphur> so, TFTP in this case is serving the ISOs right? A lot of stuff mentions NFS, is that just for stuff that requires it's own storage space for writing (eg running a OS, rather than just the installer)
<ali1234> it didn't use tftp at all
<ali1234> that was weird
<neuro> probably used ncp
<ali1234> NFS is when you want to remote mount a writable filesystem
<ali1234> neuro: yup, that was it
<Azelphur> yup, thought so
<neuro> ah netware
<neuro> my old nemesis
<ali1234> Azelphur: tftp is for like, the kernel and initrd
<ali1234> netware was good for the time
<ali1234> when you only had DOS and windows 3.1
<ali1234> it "just worked"
<neuro> well
<neuro> that and your nic drivers
<ali1234> which is more than you can say for NT 3.whatever
<neuro> and the netware client stuff
<Azelphur> ali1234: and pxelinux, where does that fit in?
<ali1234> Azelphur: that's the bootloader, like grub
<Azelphur> ah
<ali1234> maybe displays a menu to choose OS
<Azelphur> so I shouldn't be using that, if I want to use GRUB to boot ISOs?
<ali1234> yeah
<neuro> um
<neuro> huh?
<ali1234> pxelinux is part of isolinux collection of utils
<neuro> why would you even ...
<ali1234> you should use pxelinux instead of grub, it's probaby easier
<ali1234> it does the same thing
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> exactly
<Azelphur> ali1234: righto, yea, I've seen some documentation for using ISOs with it too, I will stick with it.
<Azelphur> starting to understand what everything does now \o/
<neuro> you set your pxelinux.cfg to use a kernel and the iso to boot from
<neuro> no point in using grub
<neuro> sorry, i'm being grumpy
<neuro> i need a cigarette
<neuro> but i have none
<Azelphur> hehe
<neuro> the smoker's lament
<ali1234> pxe booting an iso is slow if you don't have gigabit btw
<ali1234> it copies the whole thing afaik
<Azelphur> that's fine, my whole network is gigabit
<Azelphur> I even have some 802.11ac bits in here, my network is pretty modern \o/
<Azelphur> obviously irrelevant to pxe, just showing off xD
<neuro> oooooOOOOooooooh
<neuro> *handbag*
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> neuro: and proper, Intel open source driver 802.11ac too!
 * neuro is mainly GigE (apart from a holdout 100 meg switch under my desk) and 802.11n (APPLE!)
<neuro> open source wifi drivers concern me not :)
<neuro> no linux desktop installs do i have
<neuro> speaking like yoda for some reason, i am
<Azelphur> neuro: pfft, I don't even own any non-linux machines any more
<neuro> meh
<Azelphur> Desktop (Xubuntu 13.10) TV is powered by Xubuntu 13.10 and XBMC, Laptop is Xubuntu 13.10, Phone and tablet are both Android.
<neuro> i still don't buy the "android is linux" thing
<neuro> it has a linux kernel and core, big woop
<neuro> so does my TV :)
<Azelphur> neuro: I've done fairly Linuxy things with it, on my old phone I'd dive into /proc/ and change the brightness lower than the UI allowed so I could read at night on it ;)
<Azelphur> by /proc I of course mean /dev >.<
<Azelphur> and I've chrooted Ubuntu on pretty much all my devices
<neuro> you've what?
<Azelphur> you can install Ubuntu in a chroot and VNC into localhost to get at it.
<neuro> i know what a chroot is
<neuro> it was more a wtf "what" than an i don't understand "what"
<neuro> :)
<Azelphur> neuro: yea, you can do that on Android, so I've had the full desktop version of Ubuntu on an Android device like that
<ali1234> y u do dis?
<Azelphur> it's the only way, afaik?
 * neuro boggles
<ali1234> yeah but why would you even want that?
<neuro> just because, i guess :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: admittedly it was entirely useless, but it was fun to try.
<neuro> hackers don't always need reasons
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> although I haven't tried it on newer devices, I think it'd be cool to plug HDMI out in and have a full desktop running like that on a large monitor.
<Azelphur> I reckon the newer devices with quad core processors would run it reasonably fast
<Azelphur> back when I did it on my HTC Desire Z it was only a single core 800mhz (overclocked to 1.7) so it was fairly slow
<ali1234> sure as long as you didn't load up firefox or open office
<Azelphur> haha
<neuro> or, you know, try to use it
<neuro> at all
<ali1234> yeah basically
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> no gcc
<neuro> god, can you imagine compiling a kernel? :)
<ali1234> i've done it
<Azelphur> have you guys seen nemomobile? that's really got my attention at the moment
<ali1234> it took forever
<ali1234> Azelphur: go buy a jolla then
<ali1234> it's the same core
<Azelphur> ali1234: but NemoMobile will run native on Nexus devices
<neuro> i have not seen nemomobile, no
<ali1234> so will jolla then, if you port it
<ali1234> *sailfish
<neuro> but then again i'm not a mobile hacky person
<neuro> so i don't keep up
<Azelphur> neuro: it looks really interesting, fully open source, runs wayland, has android app compatibility
<neuro> i didn't realise people were still futzing around with meego-based stuff
<Azelphur> ali1234: I saw sailfish but I didn't approve as it has closed source elements, nemomobile is basically sailfish without the proprietary bits.
<ali1234> neuro: jolla is meego
<neuro> see?
<neuro> told you i don't keep up
<neuro> to be honest, i want my phone to Just Work
<ali1234> Azelphur: yes, exactly
<neuro> hence, iphone
<ali1234> the android layer in sailfish is proprietary btw
 * neuro hugs his iphone
<Azelphur> really? that's odd, I thought the jvm thing was open source
<ali1234> i have not heard about it being available in nemo
 * neuro hugs his other iphone
<Azelphur> guess you can't have everything
 * neuro hugs his additional iphone
<ali1234> maybe they have a different, free implementation (in which case it probably sucks)
 * Azelphur stabs neuro 3 times, once for every iphone
<neuro> i really need to get rid of some of these phones
<neuro> i have a 4 from 2010, a 4S from 2011 and a 5s I bought myself a fortnight-ish ago
<Azelphur> it still interests me anyway, it's definitely sounding like a step up from Android.
<neuro> why le stab?
<Azelphur> lots of potential there
<ali1234> i'll let you know when i get mine
<Azelphur> ali1234: cool
<ali1234> that reminds me
<Azelphur> ali1234: I don't like the jolla, specs are weak, price is high
<Azelphur> nexus is much better value for money hardware wise and is likely to get the OS ported to it in the first 5 minutes
<ali1234> yeah but it's nokia quality
<Azelphur> Nexus 5 seems pretty decent quality to me, I've had no issues with it
<ali1234> is it still LG>
<ali1234> because i heard it's plastic trash
<Azelphur> yea, it's essentially a slightly lower specced version of LGs flagship, the G2
<Azelphur> which is the current highest specced device in the phone arena, iirc
<ali1234> i doubt that
<ali1234> isn't that the SGS4?
<Azelphur> no way, the S4 is far weaker, the S4 is pretty old now
<Azelphur> the S5 is due in a few days, that'll beat the G2
<neuro> "beat" ...
<neuro> the S4 is only 10 months old, btw
<Azelphur> neuro: in terms of raw processing power :P
<ali1234> the S4 has 8 cores...
<neuro> who needs "raw processing power" on a frickin' phone?
<Azelphur> ali1234: no, it has two four core processors, and one of them is wimpy.
<ali1234> same memory
<ali1234> better GPU
<neuro> quad core?
<Azelphur> it's a power saving feature, not a performance one
<neuro> you sure?
<neuro> oops, 8 core i mean
<Azelphur> ali1234: Quad-core 1.6 GHz Cortex-A15 & quad-core 1.2 GHz Cortex-A7
<Azelphur> the A7 being wimpy, and the A15  being crucified by the 2.3ghz krait 400 in the Nexus 5
<neuro> i must be missing the point here
<neuro> THESE ARE TELEPHONES
<ali1234> you don't need to tell me, i know
<Azelphur> neuro: nope, they are full computers that happen to be able to make phone calls.
<Azelphur> wrong attitude ;)
<neuro> if I wanted a portable computer, I would have a laptop or a tablet
<neuro> OH WAIT, I DO
<ali1234> they are not full computers. they do not have 24" screen, keyboard & mouse
<Azelphur> neuro: so do I, there are places laptops and tablets can't go, however ;)
<neuro> I want my portable telephone to be a portable telephone first and foremost
<neuro> which means I want the battery to last as long as possible
<ali1234> they do not have intel i7 processor and nvidia GTX780
<neuro> because it is a portable telephone
<ali1234> they do not have 32GB of ram
<Azelphur> neuro: each to his own, I use my phone as a computer regularly
<ali1234> they don't have 4TB of storage
<neuro> and if my portable telephone has a quad core ridiculous thingamabob which eats power, it will be less useful to me as a portable telephone
<ali1234> +1
<Azelphur> ali1234: true, but then neither do most laptops, the smaller you go the lower the hardware
<ali1234> battery life is the most important feature on a phone
<Azelphur> neuro: personal preference
<neuro> the fact that my portable telephone can also do apps and the like is a welcome bonus
<Azelphur> I solve battery life by carring a 10k mAh battery in my coat pocket, it'll do me for around 5 days.
<neuro> the fact also that i am on an unlimited data plan should show that i'm not exactly being a luddite here
<ali1234> i use my phone for totally different things than my computer
<neuro> that's not SOLVING BATTERY LIFE
<ali1234> i use my phone to make phone calls, check email, and look at a map
<Azelphur> works for me ;)
<ali1234> i do not need quad core for that
<ali1234> i only use my phone when i am outside my house
 * neuro points at his iPhone 5s
<neuro> dual core, baby
<neuro> fast as hell
<ali1234> iphone sucks man
<neuro> yeah yeah
<ali1234> i am still using SGS1 with 512mb and single core
<Azelphur> ali1234: I use mine for everything, all of what you said, I hdmi out and use playstation controllers, play games on it, SSH, mumble, steam, xbmc, etc etc...
<Azelphur> basically, I can use my phone for almost anything I'd use a desktop for.
<ali1234> yes but why would you want to?
<Azelphur> because it's far more portable
<neuro> i'll just leave this sitting here ... https://www.dropbox.com/s/ehtkd9zs5k08h5o/Photo%2027-03-2014%2003%2036%2027.png
<ali1234> when i go outside my house i talk to people and do things
<ali1234> i don't go on irc on my phone
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'm an introvert, when I go outside...I avoid people ;)
<ali1234> STOP IT
<Azelphur> haha
<neuro> i understand and agree that it's each to their own
<Azelphur> indeed, it is :)
<Azelphur> I don't hate on people who only want a Nokia 3210.
<neuro> i just don't see the point in quad core 5.5" screen stupid monster phones running crap OSes
<Azelphur> neuro: 5.5" screen makes typing so much easier.
<neuro> quite happy with my dual core 64bit 4" display awesomeness
<Azelphur> although I miss the days we had slider keyboards
<ali1234> stop typing stuff on your phone
<Azelphur> xD
<neuro> i can type just peachy on the iphone form factor
<Azelphur> I have a laptop too you know, and a tablet
<neuro> bigger displays confuse me
<Azelphur> they all have their place, I use them all regularly
<neuro> not tablety enough
<neuro> also 5.5" screen is not one-handable
<ali1234> the jolla phone has replaceable backs that can add features such as a hardware keyboard btw
<neuro> unless you're a mega hand person or something
<Azelphur> neuro: yea, 5.5" is a bit big for a phone, nexus 5 is a 5" and about as large as I'd like
<ali1234> if you've got a 3d printer you could even build your own
<neuro> 5" screen is too much for me too
<neuro> 4" screen is just perfick for me
<Azelphur> neuro: that said, my dad wants a 6". His eyesight isn't great and he feels he'd work much better with a larger screen
<Azelphur> personal preference strikes again :P
<ali1234> http://www.jollatides.com/2014/03/13/prototype-other-half-keyboard-demo/
<Azelphur> ali1234: nice :o
<neuro> god that's ugly
<neuro> and yet another thing to break
<ali1234> it's ugly cos it's 3d printed
<neuro> i mean in general design
<Azelphur> ali1234: I've always wished someone would make something like that for the Nexus 5, that's really cool
<neuro> look at the size of the keys!!!
<neuro> the keys on the display are bigger than the ones they're meant to be replaced by
<ali1234> see i told you to get jolla :)
<Azelphur> grumble
<ali1234> the keyboard is quite obviously from another phone
<ali1234> it's a prototype, jeez
<Azelphur> yea, it looks like a droid keyboard
<ali1234> the point is anyone can make their own keyboard, or other things
<neuro> again, sorry, as much as i respect hardware hackers, i prefer my phone to actually work all of the time without rooting, jailbreaking, hacking, grafting, printing, soldering ...
<neuro> oh and lightning cable ... *drool*
<ali1234> it's fully supported
<neuro> DOES. NOT. MATTER. WHICH. WAY. IT. GETS. PLUGGED. IN!
<ali1234> it's designed for companies to make addons
<neuro> i have fingerprinty unlockness
<neuro> i have tethery goodness
<neuro> i have camera awesomeness
<neuro> i have app coolness
<neuro> and i have portable telephoneness
<neuro> <- happy camper
<ali1234> http://jolla.com/the-other-half-developer-kit <- specs
<Azelphur> indeed, looks fancy
<neuro> email from 10 mins ago ... "Thank you for your order. Your order has now been despatched via 'UPS Delivery' and should be with you shortly."
<neuro> order was delivered 15 hrs ago
<mapps> yo
<mapp> sheesh
<mapp> Anyone awake?
<jussi> mapp: vaguely
<mapp> :D
<mapp> just feeling sad
<mapp> my friend mentioned my mum tonight;/
<jussi> :(
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> hello all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - This is some serious bit coining mining: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/meet-the-manic-miner-who-wants-to-mint-10-of-all-new-bitcoins/
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: lets do it, steal alanbells pi's and we'll be set
<MartijnVdS> Pile of Pis
<jussi> !pie-#ubuntu-offtopic
<lubotu3> PIE PIE PIE, mmm PI PI PI http://ikanobori.jp/storage/pi_e.jpg or http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3663/3358637054_9f756a3615.jpg
<diplo> What has happened to the Pile of Pi's, not heard anything ref that recently
<TheOpenSourcerer> They are sitting in a rack in our office
<MartijnVdS> building packages
<MartijnVdS> ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not yet - they are not paowered up right now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ARteM3rEi4w/UzPrSLseNuI/AAAAAAAAO4M/e0M57nz6igY/w669-h893-no/20140327_091105.jpg
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: shiny ethernet cables :)
<MartijnVdS> or wait
<MartijnVdS> those are USB power cables
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - the ones at the front are USB for power
<diplo> Nice, looks good
<diplo> When do you expect to make a start on it ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno. Better ask the other alan - who isn't around right now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lol: https://plus.google.com/104060033182234025482/posts/cqbuQKfL6rD
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: those are targeted, you know :P
<MartijnVdS> Big Data is never wrong
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was worried that might be the case
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Spanish Paella Day! :-D
<jussi> JamesTait: oh, I totally forgot, I need to inform you that this week is international Doula week!
<JamesTait> International what now?
<jussi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doula
<JamesTait> Interesting!
<jussi> http://www.worlddoulaweek.com/
<jussi> JamesTait: why do I know this? My wife is a doula... :D
<JamesTait> In my head, that sounds like dueller for some reason. :-P
<jussi> its more like Doh-la
<jussi> doh! :P
<bashrc> nice
<foobarry> how can i avoid windows from blatting my mbr?
<foobarry> besides installing it first...i did install first but windows is blue screening on boot
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: by not re-installing it
<foobarry> its for vsphere client
<jussi> foobarry: I dont think you can, just have a ubuntu usb on hand to repair it later
<foobarry> then run supergrub?
<jussi> !grub
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<foobarry> sweet
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> windows got killed by gpt issues
<bigcalm> GEC Plessey Telecommunications?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Now there's a name I haven't heard in years: GPT. When I were a lad in field service for Gandalf, I used to maintain lots of PACX for GPT all over the UK.
<MooDoo> my friend used to work for GPT when it was in beeston notts
<TheOpenSourcerer> Went to Beeston a few times. They had R&D places all over the south cost and west country mainly.
<bigcalm> My father worked for GEC -> GPT -> Marconi Communications -> Lord Simpson bought too much stuff and fudged it for everybody -> "early retirement"
<brobostigon> beeston, as in nottingham?
<foobarry> how do i know what files will be delivered by a git pull?
<TheOpenSourcerer> The old joke in our office was "'Plessy Havant got a PACX' get in your car lordy" ;-)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: that's the one
<brobostigon> MooDoo: a friend of mines works at nottingham uni, an infrasctructure manager.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: long nosed pliers are still called 81s in our house
<TheOpenSourcerer> ?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: whats his name?
<bigcalm> 81 was the code for a particular make/model of long nosed pliers
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<bigcalm> Within GEC/GPT
<MooDoo> brobostigon: not darren is it?
<bigcalm> My father used to install telephone exchanges in his 20s
<bigcalm> And 30s come to think of it
<brobostigon> MooDoo: edward
<BigRedS__> foobarry: I think there's a --no-merge option; AFAIK there's no built-in way to find out. You could note down your current commit, though, and check that out if you get stuff you don't want
<bigcalm> What I do is use git log -1 to find out the current commit number. Then go to gitlab and compare commits
<BigRedS> Ah, that makes me feel better about plumping for gitlab :)
<BigRedS> but, yeah, every time I *need* to defer to the web ui to do something I perceive it as a failing in Git. Some of the things that're non-trivial are a bit weird
<Laney> Couldn't you git fetch; git diff --stat FETCH_HEAD?
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 how are you this fine day?
<davmor2> JamesTait: I hate Paella Spanish or otherwise
<davmor2> MooDoo: Good thanks, you?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah ok thanks, little bit of #manflu, but ok :D
<jussi> damn, I had forgotten how good Mr Cash is :D
<jussi> fantastic, just fantastic! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aF9AJm0RFc
<foobarry> i did a git pull
<jussi> foobarry: did he scream? :P
<foobarry> my problem was that git status showed local changes (naughty person)
<JamesTait> davmor2, don't be such a spoil sport. ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, you're not going to be like this on the plane are you? "Eugh, I don't like that! Can I have a special meal?" :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: No I'm just not keen on fish and seafood so a rice dish that is primarily seafood not fun :)
<foobarry> carlton from fresh prince is narrating this veeam video
<JamesTait> davmor2, I'll let you off. ;)
<foobarry> http://www.veeam.com/university/backup_and_replication_deployment.swf
<SirMarky> Hello - just found this group, haven't been a big IRC user before.  Just saying "Hi!"
<brobostigon> welcome SirMarky
<bigcalm> Hello :)
<MooDoo> SirMarky: greetings :D
<davmor2> SirMarky: ow do
<directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvWGLcdI8o8
<MartijnVdS> directhex: release date: april 1
<directhex> MartijnVdS, yes!
<directhex> april goat's day!
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturevideo/10726111/Goat-Simulator-Official-Launch-Trailer-is-this-the-greatest-video-game-of-all-time.html
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: wow
<bigcalm> Is it an April Fool's joke?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I'm working on the assumption that it is.
<MooDoo> wtf?
<bigcalm> As you can't pre-order, I'm guessing it is
<bigcalm> Looks like they had fun with garry's mod
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goat_Simulator
<bigcalm> In git, is there a way to find out when a string 1st appeared in a commit?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: look for "pickaxe" searches (git log -S)
<MartijnVdS> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5816134/git-finding-a-commit-that-introduced-a-string
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: eventually found what I was looking for with gitlab and a lot of scrolling. But will keep that in mind for next time :)
<dwatkins> http://www.redbubble.com/people/justin/works/4019382-i-broke-the-build - t-shirt
<daftykins> :>
<dwatkins> I may have recently bought several t-shirts from redbubble including this one: http://www.redbubble.com/people/samuriferret/works/11709980-1980-something-rebel-fighter
<dwatkins> well, the one with the Millenium Falcon, anyway
<neuro> this is still one of my favourite t-shirts: http://shirtoid.com/21518/chewie-and-han/
<neuro> albeit mine is not blue
<daftykins> nice C&H style :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/v6xnnado0vkqm7p/IMG_20140327_142239.jpg
<dwatkins> neuro: I have one of those in red
<dwatkins> I like their Mega Man / Tron crossover t-shirt, too
<daftykins> it's almost tempting but i'm not a star wars fan
<dwatkins> What's not to love about Star Wars? ;)
<daftykins> the hype is roughly 100 powers greater than the product itself
<shauno> just got an electricity bill for â¬12,030.  not sure whether to frame it or leave the country.
<MartijnVdS> Why not both?
<Myrtti> for how much? how many cryptocurrency miners are you running in your basement?
<MartijnVdS> Plantations?
<daftykins> shauno: d'aww can you scan it/ take a pic? :)
<shauno> lol!
<shauno> ooh that helps, 1203 not 12030.  something's still up :/
<mapp> er
<mapp> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2590546/McStupid-Norwegian-teen-McDonalds-dinner-receipt-tattooed-ARM-dare-causing-mother-breakdown.html
<mapp> lol
<MartijnVdS> the Faily Fail
<foobarry> windows is installing update 53 of 160.
<foobarry> "why don't you go home, i'll be a while"
<mapp> lo
<mapp> l
<dwatkins> Windows' update mechanism seems to be the worst way to enforce OS updates.
<dwatkins> Perhaps it's changed in Windows 8, in fairness.
<foobarry> my son loves star wars and doesn't even know what it is . just knows that he loves it
<daftykins> dwatkins: how-so?
<foobarry> can i change boot.ini to load a linux partition?
<popey> yes, i think so, chain load
<daftykins> definitely heard that's do-able yeah
<dwatkins> daftykins: I believe Windows 8 installs patches at boot-time now instead
<directhex> ...boot.ini?
<directhex> you really shouldn't still be running an NT5-series OS
<dwatkins> technically, yes: http://bkpavan.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/how-to-boot-linux-using-windows-bootloader-xp/
<dwatkins> I'd trust that boot option about as far as I could throw my PC, though.
<foobarry> directhex: sorry, dunno the name of the file in win7
<directhex> foobarry, there isn't one
<foobarry> or how can i blat it from a live cd
<directhex> foobarry, you use the "bcdedit" command to edit the boot records embedded in the partition
<directhex> dwatkins, i used to do that to boot BeOS from the Win2K boot loader
<dwatkins> aww, BeOS :)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/271jdkyyvs43x9b/lappy.wav
<daftykins> this WD5000BEVT is one odd sounding disk
<diddledan> lol @ windows startup chime in the middle
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> and bah @ itunes adding that file to my music library
<daftykins> _itunes_!?
<daftykins> ugh
<neuro> wav files? ugh! :)
<daftykins> neuro: what would you rather?
<daftykins> :)
<bigcalm> Sounds like the disk is scraping on the draw
<daftykins> draw 0o
<neuro> flac?
<neuro> aiff?
<neuro> mp4?
<bigcalm> draw, slot, case
<daftykins> oh don't be ridiculous
<bigcalm> Whatever is inside
<daftykins> it was the default some little android sound recorder prog made ;)
<neuro> you're ughing an apple app while using what is effectively a microsoft audio format :)
<neuro> (i know it's not, but ipso facto etc)
<daftykins> i think there's infinitely more weight behind ughing iTunes
<neuro> just because you personally don't like it
<daftykins> neuro you're in danger of dragging humour into serious territory, let's let it go now
<neuro> you started it ;)
<daftykins> anyway, glad that's not any HDD i own
<daftykins> not that i'd have mechanical in a lappy :D
<daftykins> nor own a 15" acer for that matter 0o
<neuro> microsoft are kicking off a ton of stuff
<neuro> Office for touch today on iOS, also coming to Windows and "other platforms"
<bigcalm> OneNote is now available on all platforms bar linux
<bigcalm> Meh
<neuro> Windows Azure is now Microsoft Azure
<neuro> that's an interesting change in and of itself
<neuro> and amazon slashed EC2 and S3 pricing yesterday too
<neuro> fun times
<neuro> well, they announced it yesterday, takes effect from tuesday
<diddledan> ooh, ec2 resudctionc?
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> reductions**
<diddledan> I have no idea what my fingers where thinking there
<neuro> haha
<neuro> yeah, check their blog
<neuro> 10-40% reductions on c1/m1
<neuro> 30% on m3
<neuro> and so on
<neuro> ah here it is
<neuro> http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2014/03/aws-price-reduction-42-ec2-s3-rds-elasticache-and-elastic-mapreduce.html
<diddledan> using a "cloud" is starting to become a no-brainer over dedicated hardware
<diddledan> I pay hetzner 80â¬ ish per month for a single machine which if it dies I have to get a replacement for
<neuro> i've been talking about this with my boss
<diddledan> the hardware vendors are all clamouring to convince companies to "build your own cloud"
<diddledan> and software at that
<neuro> you have to weigh up performance versus scale and speed of deployment
<diddledan> yeah
<neuro> yeah, let's buy a few mid range servers from ovh, for example
<diddledan> take vmware insisting that you use vmware to build a cloud
<neuro> but when one of them dies on their arse, your time to scale back to same performance level is in hours, probably more like days, rather than minutes
<neuro> well building a private cloud out of vmware bits would probably work
<diddledan> if you had enough scale in having dozens of servers then you could rebalance but a "few" servers you can't
<neuro> s/well/well,/
<neuro> but yeah, that's it
<neuro> if you're running at datacentre sized private cloud scale, losing a physical host is nothing
<neuro> especially if you're using vmotion-like shipping off to an active host thingy
<neuro> but when you have like 3 servers with several VMs on each, losing one host is catastrophic
<neuro> swings and roundabouts to be honest
<neuro> i do like being able to blast compute requests at real hardware without worrying about lack of performance or blowing through an IOPS bundle limit
<diddledan> at work we have 10 dedicated server units but they're pretty much full-up to the point that if one of them dies we have to do a lot of juggling to fine-tune where each vm goes
<neuro> right, i'm off to try to explain to my mother why I gave myself a buzzcut this morning
<neuro> i basically look like this now: http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTQ4MjQ3NDYyMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNTI2ODU3._V1_SX640_SY720_.jpg
<diddledan> oh dear
<neuro> last rebellious thing i'll do in my thirties most likely
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> noooooooooo
<neuro> then i'll turn 40 on sunday and regret the hell out of doing it by monday
<diddledan> lol
<neuro> luckily i have a healthy supply of new era MLB caps
<neuro> SF Giants 2010 World Series commemorative today
<neuro> which is nice
<celesteh> hello, I set the wrong parameters for my display card, so now the screen is black when I start up. I've gotten it to boot into recovery mode. What do I do now to solve the problem?
<daftykins> what steps did you take to set these 'parameters' ?
<daftykins> edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?
<MartijnVdS> or move it aside
<MartijnVdS> that's usually the easiest fix
<celesteh> I used the system settings application
<celesteh> It looked *fine* and then when i accepted the parameters, it was suddenly not fine
<daftykins> so... picking resolution?
<davmor2> celesteh: what graphics card do you have
<celesteh> sandybridge
<davmor2> celesteh: on a laptop or desktop?
<celesteh> laptop
<davmor2> celesteh: try turning the brightness up
<celesteh> if that turns out to be the problem, i'm going to be releived and feel stupid all at once.  I have to reboot to test this.
<davmor2> celesteh: sometimes for some reason the brightness is dropped to 0 so as soon as the system take over.
<celesteh> ok, will check it out.  back in a few minutes. thanks for your help
<Blueeyez> hi
<MooDoo> evening all
<Blueeyez> Is ubuntu-uk.org down or?
<MooDoo> seems to be for me
<Blueeyez> but ubuntu-uk is still active?
<MooDoo> it's pingable
<Blueeyez> ill check on it later :-) Doing an update on a danish ubuntu site :)
<MooDoo> :D
<popey> yeah, the server is a bit ill
<celesteh> ok, the problem with my monitor being dark is not brightness.  It's just got the wrong settings.
<celesteh> How can I reset it to the default from recovery mode?
<daftykins> celesteh: was it the resolution you were changing within system settings? or installing a driver?
<celesteh> I was plugging in an external display and trying to set it to mirror the main display. I was in a hurry, so I probably pressed the wrong thing in regards to refresh or resolution. I was not installing a driver.
<celesteh> The screen is black outside of recovery mode whether to external screen is plugged in or not....
<celesteh> s/to/the
<daftykins> at the recovery prompt can you check if you have an /etc/X11/xorg.conf file?
<daftykins> i have a sneaking feeling the desktop settings stuff may be separate 0o
<celesteh> ls: cannot access /etc/X11/xorg.conf: No such file or directory
<daftykins> ok - sounds like it is then
<popey> Blueeyez: site is back
<celesteh> if i boot into recovery mode, the graphics work (but are slightly off) if i carry on botting from there
<celesteh> is this suggestions something that might work or would it cause problems to test it? apt-get install nvidia-current --reinstall
<daftykins> depends if earlier when you said you were changing mirror mode, you were doing so in nvidia-settings rather than system settings
<daftykins> which is it? :)
<celesteh> system settings.  is there a way to restore that to default?
<daftykins> so http://i.stack.imgur.com/XN5c1.png ?
<celesteh> yep, but in xfce
<celesteh> right now, my system is set to skip the login screen and boot to a particular suer account.  if i turn that off and boot to a loging prompt instead, will it still pick up the wrong settings if I loging as someone else?
<celesteh> s/suer/user
<daftykins> is there a ~/.config/monitors.xml ?
<celesteh> s/loging/login
<celesteh> there is for my main account, but not for the account that was logged in when i caused the problem
<celesteh> i've got to go away and grab a sandwich. i bet i wouldn't have buggered this if i'd had lunch... :(
<ali1234> xfce does not use monitors.xml
<ali1234> reset xfce monitor settings to default using this command:
<ali1234> xfconf-query -c displays  -r -R -p /
<celesteh> Thank you! I will give that a go!
<ali1234> also the monitors tool in xfce is a bit buggy if you have multiple outputs
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10717
<lubotu3> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10717 in Display Settings "Display settings mixes up monitor EDID names" [Normal,New]
<celesteh> ah, so if i configure it in gnome, will it stick around after a reboot?
<ali1234> only in gnome
<celesteh> ok, so right now i'm in my main account, in recovery mode running gnome.  if I put that line into the startup items and reboot into my xfce user, would that possibly fix it?
<celesteh> not the mirroring displays part, but the screen being black part
<daftykins> 'main account' - you need to run it as the conflicted user
<celesteh> ok
<celesteh> ok, rebooting. brb  thanks very much for your help.
<celesteh> Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you!!
<celesteh> daftykins, lubotu3, and ali1234, you folks are awesome and have saved my bacon. I cannot thank you enough.
<daftykins> it was aaaaall ali
<smittix> o/
<neuro> doo de doo de doo
<neuro> well, my mum didn't kill me
<neuro> "it's your head, you can do what you like to it", she said, stifling a giggle I'm sure
<smittix> What did you do?
<neuro> no 1 cut all over
<neuro> i look like Van Zan out of Reign of Fire now
<neuro> http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTQ4MjQ3NDYyMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNTI2ODU3._V1_SX640_SY720_.jpg
<smittix> Your talking to a guy with who has a hair cut with a razor.
<smittix> Welcome to the club heh
<neuro> i used a pair of clippers
<neuro> i'm pretty sure i'll never do it again
<smittix> ha
<neuro> last rebellious act of my thirties etc etc etc
<neuro> my head is cold
<smittix> I've had a shaved head since I was 18
<smittix> You get used to the cold.
<neuro> well i'm not bald shaved
<smittix> I can remember it feeling strange though. I used to have a #1 all over.
<neuro> luckily i wear caps a lot
<smittix> I still say caps are to blame for my hair thinning so early.
<neuro> my latest purchases:
<neuro> http://www.neweracap.co.uk/established-champ-classic-san-francisco-giants-39thirty-prod10917769/
<neuro> http://www.neweracap.co.uk/basic-san-francisco-giants-9forty-prod10917824/
<smittix> I like the red one.
<neuro> looks cracking in real life
<smittix> The only cap I own now is a Fedora baseball cap. lol
<neuro> caps don't seem to thin my hair
<neuro> what does is having long hair
<neuro> tried that in my early 20s, trying to be a grunge type
<neuro> found out i was getting a bald spot
<neuro> EMERGENCY SHORT BACK AND SIDES, STAT!
<smittix> haha
<smittix> Bah, battery is going down too quick on this laptop
<neuro> POWAAAAAH
<smittix> I'm sure it's the bloody Nvidia optimus
<smittix> It's gone down 7% in 10 minutes.
<bigcalm> smittix: only use nvidia when you want POWER. intel is a nice battery saver
<daftykins> hrmm, i can't 'passwd username' to change a user's pass in a trusty VM
<daftykins> am i being stupid? (hint: highly likely)
<daftykins> i enter a new pass then get "passwd: Authentication token manipulation error"
<daftykins> haha, read only filesystem *slaps forehead*
<daftykins> idiot.
 * daftykins dons the dunce cap
<neuro> oopsies
<daftykins> neuro: are you really nearly 40?
<daftykins> :>
<neuro> on sunday
<neuro> thanks man
<neuro> the reminders just keep on comin :)
<daftykins> <3
<daftykins> i turned 29 last month :<
<shauno> turning 30 was horrible.  I can't imagine reaching 40
<neuro> it's no big deal really
<daftykins> hehe
<neuro> when you get to this age it's like, meh, it's a number
<neuro> turning 20 was like woooooo awesome
<neuro> turning 30 was like hmmm getting older, but being in your thirties is cooool man
<daftykins> how :(
<neuro> turning 40 is like ... crap, really should get that pension sorted out, have i cleared out the garage today, where did i put those bin bags, aw man, my mortgage is going up by Â£1.50 a month, why are merrill lynch sending me a cheque, where did i put that bottle of water to put in the bedroom, oh good, i put that reminder in my calendar to get the tyres done on the car ...
<shauno> exactly.  you're a grown-up now!  muaha
<neuro> daftykins: you're too young to remember thirtysomething on the tv
<neuro> shauno: those are all genuine things that have run through my head this week
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> they sound more like life than a given age
<neuro> buzzcutting my hair is my last rebel yell
<neuro> after sunday it's indicative of mid life crisis
<shauno> 20 was pretty meh for me.  I was living in the states at the time, so they'd decided I was no longer old enough to drink
<smittix> bigcalm: I'm happy with the Intel, I'm just not sure whether its working properly. I have installed bumblebee
<neuro> shauno: ha ha fail
<daftykins> mine: did i feed the cat? hmm do i get a new chain for the bike... why do kids today have such massive hair?
<neuro> "kids today"
<neuro> *that* is the danger zone
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> danger zooooone
<neuro> WHY ARE WE NOT DOING PHRASING?!
<neuro> you said danger zooooone
<neuro> i made an archer joke
<neuro> sorry
<daftykins> :) i was thinking along the same lines
<daftykins> i nearly said 'just the tip'
<neuro> lol
<daftykins> but of course we're family friendly
<neuro> Lana.
<neuro> Lana!
<neuro> LANA!
<neuro> LAANNAAAAAAAAAAA!
<neuro> WHAT?!?
<neuro> ... danger zooone.
<daftykins> 8)
<neuro> oh actually
<neuro> http://youtu.be/k3-zaTr6OUo?t=35s
<neuro> hehe
<daftykins> i've been thoroughly disappointed by Archer Vice
<neuro> seriously?
<neuro> i'm loving it
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-28
<mapp> hmmmmm what to watch
<MartijnVdS> heh
<MartijnVdS> someone captioned this photo:
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/u9jrRIC.jpg
<MartijnVdS> "Merkele"
<knightwise> morning everyone
<mapp> morning MartijnVdS knightwise
<knightwise> hmm ,
<knightwise> i just installed conky-manager
<knightwise> never before was conky that simple
<knightwise> its pretty basic stuff but still
<MooDoo> hello all
<jussi> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you jussi ?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: hehe, good one
<MooDoo> and morning knightwise mapp MartijnVdS
<jussi> MooDoo: TGIF. that explains it, no?
<MooDoo> jussi: definately
<jussi> MooDoo: read this... http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling
<jussi> MooDoo: particularly the part below the manatee :P
<MooDoo> lol well that cheered me up, now I know there out to get me, so Ill take note that you're taking the micky out of me ;)
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> :D
 * jussi hugs MooDoo
<MooDoo> hee hee :D
<MooDoo> yay got my ubuntu site authorised :D
<jussi> MooDoo: :)
<MooDoo> just need to sign the document and send it back
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: do you think that screensaver bug will be fixed before final?
<MooDoo> speaking of bugs, anyone know if the login focus issue has been fixed with the beta
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: login focus?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: on the login screen, after initial boot, you have to right click or do something to get the focus on the login prompt...er does that make sense....
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: to be honest I went back to Saucy so I don't know if it's fixed or just me :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: works fine on mine without the click
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I'm thinking user error too :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Layer 8 :P
<MooDoo> I'll just wait now until release not fussed to upgrade now :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: :)
<MooDoo> lol I might just say it's 9 or 10 as well to cover all bases.
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:OSI_user_layers.png ;)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> Friday \o/
<MartijnVdS> diplo: I know a song about that
<jussi> MartijnVdS: dont you dare...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: :P
<MooDoo> here you go jussi MartijnVdS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ - Not what you think
<jussi> ...
<jussi> thank god for quassel web preview
<MooDoo> ;)
<jussi> FSOIP needs to be invented soon
<jussi> (Face Stab Over IP)
<MooDoo> hee hee
<Myrtti> in other news, I love a cappella and Coldplay http://open.spotify.com/track/0pt23eSh17tYjhiOEKGKvE
<foobarry> was just trying to download a 3rd party app for windows. i have sympathy for windows users.
<foobarry> even the "trusted" sites feature adverts to trick you into installing the wrong thing
<foobarry> repos ftw
<dwatkins> yeah, loads of green "DOWNLOAD" buttons
<jussi> foobarry: +++
<dwatkins> also, ad-block etc.
<foobarry> this is a fresh pc, no firefox etc
<foobarry> i felt very vulnerable
<MooDoo> oh it's just ie for you, nothing new there....
<foobarry> my sis got pwned within 30 mins of owning her laptop when looking for a codec.
<popey> blimey
<MooDoo> wish people would get over this windows is rubbish ubuntu  is great malarky....:p
<MooDoo> yes i'm whiny today :D
<popey> why do you always feel the need to jump to the defence of windows MooDoo ?
<Myrtti> sourceforge is awful nowadays
<jussi> MooDoo: is a secret MS agent
<dwatkins> it's not Windows, it's these websites that's the issue here.
<MooDoo> popey: no excuse
<popey> heh
<popey> I wonder what peoples very first download are on a fresh windows install usually
<popey> i imagine for some it's ff/chrome, others steam, some vlc...
<foobarry> also the pc is stuck installing update 1 of 2 after i chose a reboot. not sure if stuck or doing something
<popey> would make for interesting stats
<popey> (drivers aside)
<popey> actually drivers included would be interesting
<MooDoo> mine was AV to be honest.  which ok i'll admit screwed me over last time I had to do it
<dwatkins> MooDoo: which AV?
<popey> I usually just install MSE
<dwatkins> I tend to use AVG at home, we have McAffe at work.
<popey> my Windows (gaming) install only has MSE
<MooDoo> daftykins: I used bit defender.
<dwatkins> ah yes, MSE, I used to install AVG
<MooDoo> but the last AV which wasn't that, was packages with something that hijacks your browser
<popey> i stopped using AVG when they used to make it actively hard to upgrade
<MooDoo> and added things to the registry
<dwatkins> yeah, double plus ungood
<dwatkins> I don't tend to install a lot on my Windows machine at home apart from via Steam.
<foobarry> whats the chance i'll hose this machien by powering off during update 1 of 2?
<dwatkins> foobarry: fairly high
<foobarry> no idea what its doing
<MooDoo> I dual boot my laptop for 3 things, minecraft [for my son], photoshop and light room, other than that it's always in ubuntu
<dwatkins> how long has it been sat there and is there disk activity, foobarry?
<foobarry> 10 mins, yes disk tinkle
<dwatkins> hmm, might still be installing it then - assuming it's in single-user mode
<foobarry> have a very low trust threshold with win
<dwatkins> likewise, especially after the Windows 8.1 update hosed my graphics driver and left me with a blank screen at boot-time
<jussi> sad story of the day:  I made coffee. I went to do other stuff.  I forgot cofffee. I feel bad.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: i will admit that the 8.1 update took hours.
<foobarry> i only booted into windows to run easybcd because boot-repair didn't work under linux
<dwatkins> jussi: http://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-Cup-Warmer-Port-Hub/dp/B0009VEL1O
<dwatkins> MooDoo: I let mine complete (it also took a very long time) but it overwrote the NVidia driver and I had to do a safe boot to be able to see the output
<jussi> dwatkins: yuck. old coffee
<MooDoo> dwatkins: stupid computers....
<dwatkins> yeah, I was only kidding - I'd never get something like that for many reasons
<dwatkins> don't forget you can power a BBQ off USB... http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/08/bbq0608152132_009.jpg
<foobarry> screen gone black
<dwatkins> drum roll
<foobarry> shift key
<foobarry> installing 1 or 2
<foobarry> arrrgh
<foobarry> just a little verbose window would be nice
<foobarry> doesn't even say what patch its doing
<DJones> MooDoo: Why dual boot for minecraft? It plays well on Ubuntu for me
<dwatkins> 1 of 2, clearly....
 * dwatkins ducks
<MooDoo> DJones: correct, it's just where i have minecraft installed :D  laziness forbids me to move it to my ubuntu partition
<MooDoo> ;)
<DJones> Ah that would be a good reason
<jussi> dwatkins: that bbq is just.... wrong
<dwatkins> jussi: yep
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to Hackintosh my desktop at home, but I suspect its gfx performance won't be as good as with a "supported" OS.
<jussi> hackintosh...
<jussi> the thing that got me into open source :D
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> irony
<dwatkins> Windows 95 got me in to open source, as you couldn't really do anything interesting with it.
<jussi> foobarry: yeah. I played with hackintosh a bit and the my little brother said " why dont you try ubuntu". the rest, as they say, is history
<shauno> 95 got me into opensource because my computer wouldn't run it.  and I wanted new toys too.
<dwatkins> this PC (486 DX/2 66) came with Win 3.11.
<dwatkins> *that PC - I'm not still using it
<jussi> this was in 2006 when Hackintosh first came out
<foobarry> wow. installing 2 of 2
<shauno> this was an sx16 /w 3mb.  it ran slack, but not '95. so when everyone else got new toys, so did I
<dwatkins> I wanted to get a 286 laptop and run linux on it.
<shauno> lol, no you don't.  laptop not being absolute pants on laptops is a surprisingly recent move :/
<shauno> I had it on a 486 lappy and it was horrid
<dwatkins> I first ran Slackware on my 486; I think it had 32 MB RAM originally.
<shauno> it managed power the same way a 17yo manages alcohol
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it goes out as often as it goes in?
<shauno> it'd suspend to disk, but not resume from same :|
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Something On A Stick Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: corndog day?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, if that takes your fancy. :)
<MooDoo> marshmallows over a fire
<foobarry> moon on a stick?
<dwatkins> I have some videos on my stick and some software installers.
<JamesTait> MooDoo, yum!
<JamesTait> foobarry, now that one I'm used to.
<MooDoo> I know it's only 10am, but can I go home now please?
<dwatkins> yes
<MooDoo> dwatkins: why thank you, I'll tell my boss irc said I could go home :D
<shauno> if he asks, just explain that 'something on a stick day' is a national holiday
<foobarry> now installing 10 of 12 ..what the heck
<foobarry> iterative updates. it did 160 yesterday
<popey> yeah, non cumulative updates suck
<popey> used to have that in SAP land.. you had to install each patch incrementally, and there could be hundreds, and you had to do them in a very specific sequence
<popey> manually
<popey> one reason it paid well I guess, you had to know the voodoo â»
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a great way to keep people employed
<popey> indeed
<diplo> popey: My friend does it for a big company in london, uses PowerShell now to load a csv to do it in the correct order
<popey> they eventually added an update tool which went off to their website to find out what sequence to do them in and would queue them in that order
<MooDoo> until they get fedup and leave :S
<popey> when sap paid decently, it made it very easy to justify staying
<MooDoo> would you ever go back to SAP popey ?
<popey> i ask myself that now and then
<popey> been out of it for 2.5 years so some of my knowledge will be out of date
<popey> and its not fun â»
<popey> so only if I lost my job at canonical for whatever reason and couldn't find something else in this industry
<MooDoo> fingers crossed you enjoy your job at canonical for years to come then
<shauno> is 2.5yrs long enough to forget why you ran away screaming?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: there's loads of opportunities in OSS now. One of my mates used to work at Microsoft, then Oracle (Sales roles). I kept talking to him about FOSS and he was quite sceptical. He now works for Datastax selling Cassandra and open source big data stuuf. Loves it and thinks proprietary s/w is now a dinosaur model...
<popey> shauno: haha
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: good to hear
<MooDoo> shauno: let's grep the ubuntu-uk logs to see how many times we can see popey scream ;)
<MooDoo> shauno: no screaming on brobostigon stats - http://taylorworld.me.uk/ubuntu-uk.html ;)
<MooDoo> yay 18th most active nick, czajkowski is now my next target
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> eh
<MooDoo> czajkowski: hehe don't worry, just looking at the ubuntu-uk stats on brobostigon page, your the 17th most active nick
<brobostigon> i am happy someones using it.
<czajkowski> really
<czajkowski> I'm rather quiet in lately
<czajkowski> that whole work thing
<czajkowski> however
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: did you see we're 6 nations champions :D
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yes i can see you were last active 8 days ago :D
<MooDoo> czajkowski: only just
<MooDoo> czajkowski: if that french plonker hadn't passed the ball forward you wouldn't have been :p
 * MooDoo sulks
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Hi.
<jussi> hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was a brilliant tournament. I though Ireland deserved it just so O'driscoll can go out smiling
<MooDoo> I think everyone saw how much he was smiling :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> We played the best rugby. France were very lucky in the first game with 2 very fortuitous bounces.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But England look very good for next year ;-)
<foobarry> in grub2, where is the file i edit to remove superfluous entries in grub menu?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: they do
<MooDoo> I shall be looking forward to the tornament.
<czajkowski> It was a  good season, and yes as much as a I'm not a fan of BOD he did deserve to go out smiling
<MooDoo> lets setup ##ubuntu-uk-rugby so we can rant ;)
<czajkowski> we shall have to do another ubuntu uk rugby day out
<MooDoo> +1
<TheOpenSourcerer> That is a fine idea
<czajkowski> looking forward to RAT though this year
<czajkowski> lets hope I can make it
<MooDoo> I'm tempted with that too
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ticket for the RAT booked. Better get on it. You can always sell it later if you can;t make it.
<Laney> there's a RAT in mi kitchen
<dwatkins> what am I gonna do?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: Jon already booked them, I just need to make sure I'm not travelling
<czajkowski> will be living at an airport in May
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<czajkowski> July is currently empty so far
<TheOpenSourcerer> I used to do that. Glad I don't any more. Enjoyed the airmiles and whatnot but had enough of it now.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: damn you....booked
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just registered on the RWC site for news about ticketing. Would love to go to at least one game next year.
<directhex> moop
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I signed up for volunteering, it's such a tedious process lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah, good idea MooDoo
<popey> directhex:             done      811.0 MB Rate:   0.0 /   0.0 KB Uploaded: 36771.6 MB                 [   R: 45.34]
<directhex> i should prep a 96plus1, but i've been so busy :/
<jussi> yay, ramen for lunch again
<jussi> "Eastern Style Pork"
<jussi> oh, and "shallots" are weirdly named.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: do people book b&b's for this rat ? so I can prepare, it's long drive for me :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno - I can walk to the Farnham -> Alton train in 40mins from my house.
<MooDoo> lol don't know why I asked, i'll sort it out
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Mulberry has rooms and is close to Farnham Station
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or, if you want a NSFW kind of stay try "Hotel de Ville" lol.
<MooDoo> ah there are premier inns about  :D
<jussi> hey popey, mr "crowdfunded stuff" guy, what do you think of this? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/107750026/new-compact-step-driven-vehicle-its-your-move
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I was looking at the crown in alton :D
<popey> i got added to a list on twitter called "Experts on crowdfunding"
<popey> which made me lol a bit
<jussi> popey: hehe
<popey> hah, those look hilarious
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Depends on when you plan to arrive. Quite a few of us will come from Farnham so it might be better to stop here and meet up for a pre-RAT beer or two and possibly a post-RAT curry ;-)
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: wait... so you are going to have a pre-beer train beer? :D
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I'll be driving down on the sat, probably morning, just looking for somewhere to stay the sat night so I can drive back sunday :D
<popey> i like the photo of him pulling it along by the front wheel
<popey> like you'd want to do that after riding through dog shit
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: Farnham is it then :D
<MooDoo> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Yeah - I'd stop in Farnham then. I'd be more than happy to meet up for a pre-beer train beer ;-)
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: you sir are on :) bring chillies ;) lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't know anyone who actually lives in Alton - lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - I might just have some by then too.
<Laney> Ah, finding a cheeky packet of tangfastics downstairs
<Laney> excellent
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> Laney: ouch they make my tabs laugh
<bigcalm> Aren't I just?
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<Laney> tabs?!?!?!
<MooDoo> Laney: never heard that before?
<Laney> probably not in this context
<TheOpenSourcerer> Take a look at the end of this Album MooDoo: https://plus.google.com/photos/104060033182234025482/albums/5975387695779422977 Some if this year's chilli plants
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/if/of
<jussi> will someone buy me a bottle of red wine... i so feel like wine right now
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: coming along quite nicely i see
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<foobarry> jussi: red grape juice
<jussi> foobarry: red grape juice + alcohol
<awilkins> partially digested red grape juice + yeast-pee-pee
<popey> finally! http://torrentfreak.com/uk-dvd-cd-ripping-will-legalized-summer-14032
<Laney> now i can unleash all that pent up ripping i've been holding off on because it wasn't legal :-)
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<MooDoo> really?  wow I always thought it was legal for your own copy....oooops
<brobostigon> quick poll, does anyone think there is space in the market, for well designed dating site, specificlly for aspies?
<MartijnVdS> arent there already tons of them?
<brobostigon> no,
<MooDoo> there are but not as he said, specifically to aspies.
<MooDoo> you're probably asking the wrong people.
<brobostigon> who as i know from experience, need axtra help, and crucially the site it self need to be designed differently.
<MartijnVdS> you'll have to make sure you don't get 4channers or similar though
<MartijnVdS> that would *kill* a site like that
<MooDoo> brobostigon: do you know any?  or belong to a group that you could probably ask?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes, and yes.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: definatly.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: might be a good marketing thing for them then :D
<brobostigon> MooDoo: maybe, yes,
<bashrc> does aspies mean Asperger's syndrome?
<brobostigon> bashrc: yes.
<bashrc> I imagine the proportion of the population which has that is very small, but it could be a niche market
<brobostigon> last census, if memory serves, its about 3/4 million in the uk.
<bashrc> that's more than I was expecting
<brobostigon> thats those that are officiallly diagnosed.
<popey> is that Â¾ million or three to four million?
<bashrc> I don't know much about it, other than that it's an autism type thing
<MooDoo> brobostigon: just doing a seach shows you there are a few at the moment already
<brobostigon> popey: the former.
<popey> brobostigon: is the goal for aspies to meet non-aspies, or non-aspies to meet aspies or aspies to meet aspies?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: most i see, are simply very badly designed, and not helpful.
<brobostigon> popey: mostly the latter, but all those being a possibility, in my mind,
<bashrc> I have tried dating sites, but they all seemed dreadful
<brobostigon> exactly bashrc
<brobostigon> this is why i said, crucially the design has to be so much better.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: so why not knock something up then get your friends/group to review the site, might give you an idea about what's good/bad about it.
<bashrc> A site where prospective couples did something together would be better than trying to match supposed personality characteristics
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes, ceretainly, i have already been doing a few design ideas on paper.
<brobostigon> bashrc: maybe both those things, can be combined together?
<brobostigon> bashrc: but i dont want to do, personality matching, that for people to work out themselves.
<brobostigon> in the traditional sense.
<bashrc> filling out long questionares is indeed boring
<brobostigon> and most people loose patence, and eventually stop filling something in properly, once thats kicks in.
<bashrc> Ubuntu Touch dating app for geeks?
<brobostigon> html5, so works on any platform, not just ubuntu.
<foobarry> http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2014/03/27/ta_prohm_temple_in_siem_reap_cambodia_hides_a_dinosaur.html
<foobarry> great, now i wanna play tomb raider
<foobarry> brobostigon: not only dating but social networking in a way that lets u meet new people/aspies
<foobarry> so it could have 2 elements to it
<brobostigon> yes.
<foobarry> since aspies might not want the classic first date
<foobarry> but get to know each other virtually first
<brobostigon> exactly.
<brobostigon> yep.
<foobarry> isn't there a popular aspie freenode chan?
<foobarry> wrongplanet or something?
<brobostigon> popular, yes, useful and helpful, thats up for debate.
<foobarry> male/female ratio?
<brobostigon> its about 10/1 within asd generally.
<foobarry> or should i say does the male female ratio also reflect male-female aspies, since most aspies i know are male and female ones have different traits to men and are actually more sociable
<foobarry> now you need a cool name
<MartijnVdS> aspies4life
<foobarry> my site for obese people called blubr didn't go down well
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<foobarry> :D
<foobarry> aspies4wife
<brobostigon> i just need to work out basic design and features now, and how to design it.
<bigcalm> I would have thought that was for people who want to have a cry
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: nah that discounts same-sex relationships
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: the lesbian couple a few doors down from me refers to her partner as her husband
 * foobarry was not serious suggestion
<brobostigon> i could use something like drupal to make my life easier, then use jabber as the backend for the chat side.
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<brobostigon> xmpp*
<MattJ> XMPP \o/
<brobostigon> lol
<MattJ> I'm lacking context, but for XMPP chat in web apps both https://conversejs.org/ and https://mini.jappix.com/ are good options
<brobostigon> ty,
<MattJ> or for more of a full-page groupchat style, Candy: https://candy-chat.github.io/candy/
<bashrc> XMPP ftw
<MartijnVdS> even my remote uses it
<bashrc> XMPP + OTR
<MattJ> :)
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: https://github.com/jterrace/pyharmony/blob/master/PROTOCOL.md
<bashrc> which reminds me, I think the default Ubuntu chat client should be OTR enabled by default
<bashrc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libtelepathy/+bug/296867
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 296867 in empathy (Ubuntu) "empathy needs to support OTR encryption" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<foobarry> empathy is still default chat?
<foobarry> does it have plugins yet?
<bashrc> Yes I think so in 13.10
<brobostigon> thats some hail, the size of gravel.
<mapp> afternoon
<MooDoo> howdy mapp
<mapp> hm
<mapp> http://www.businessinsider.com/the-rudest-cities-in-the-world-2011-3?fb_action_ids=10152238769001878&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B10150414578165391%5D&action_type_map=%5B"og.recommends"%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D
<mapp> manchester rudest city in the world they claim
<ali1234> lolno, london is far worse
<mapp> i thought that too
<mapp> but who knows
<mapp> and how can you measure it
<ali1234> well i lived in manchester for like 10 years
<ali1234> met more rude people in london in about 10 days
<mapp> but yea thats one persons experience
<mapp> hard to reliably measure something like that really
<mapp> this bbc death row series is quite interesting
<foobarry> east london is the most rude place i ever been to
<foobarry> people shove you to get on the tube even when you are clearly trying to get off, thats why you are in the doorwy
<mapp> yea
<mapp> south londons ony part i like
<mapp> cant find any cheap cheap hotels...i dontwanna have to leave befoe the end of spurs game
<mapp> ;/
<awilkins> Would it be insane to make a VFS layer for dconf?
<awilkins> Like the VFS layer that Powershell has for the Windows Registry
<awilkins> Then you could hack around with dconf settings using normal file system tools
<awilkins> Just thinking of cases where there is a setting you wish to manipulate but there is no (no-generic) GUI to manipulate it
<daftykins> wow, Lenovo refuse to sell to the Channel Islands
<daftykins> (as in their online store)
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> thinkpad purchase?
<daftykins> nah got a main unit for a client through dabs.com already - just want a second mains adapter now
<brobostigon> ah.
<daftykins> gonna pick up a mini DP to HDMI adapter as well so he can hook it up on his boat, but of course that's more mainstream an accessory i can obtain elsewhere
<daftykins> ah excellent they're on amazon \o/
<mapp> howcome daftykins
<mapp> surely dhl or fedex ship evrywhere why would someone not shi to cannel islands
<mapp> channel
<daftykins> i think the Lenovo store are just *expletives* to be honest
<daftykins> we get some of these kinds of retailers or etailers sometimes that just refuse to deal with us because it involves actually thinking
<avrono> #stripe
<daftykins> #spot
<mapp> ;]
<mapp> so where are you .jersey?
<daftykins> Guernsey
<bigcalm> popey: did you have to do anything funky with your router to get SIP working correctly?
<popey> bigcalm: i had to switch it to modem only mode, yes
<bigcalm> No, I mean your router, not modem.
<popey> no
<bigcalm> I'm reading up on SIP not playing nicely with NAT
<bigcalm> Okay :)
<popey> wfm
 * popey goes to get chinese takeaway
<daftykins> mmm chinese
<daftykins> tempting but i should use my mince today
<bigcalm> I might do a pizza run
 * bigcalm blames popey
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> a local affair or a chain?
<bigcalm> We don't have any independent pizza places near by. Places that do do pizza are all the same and mostly base :(
<bigcalm> So will likely drive to pizzahut or dominos
 * bigcalm looks at the cheese burger pizza in bewilderment
<daftykins> i remember being horrified at how much dominoes costs
<daftykins> (we don't have any pizza chains over here)
<bigcalm> I wish we lived closer to ASK or Pizza Express
<bigcalm> Those are damn fine foods
<ali1234> bug 1248948
<lubotu3> bug 1248948 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm gets confused after multiple login/logouts" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248948
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> that's not a good bug
<ali1234> don't worry, i alread fixed it
<ali1234> bug 1256150 is same bug
<lubotu3> bug 1256150 in lightdm (Ubuntu Saucy) "Xorg guest session fails to start if the user has logged out and logged in again" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256150
<ali1234> needs testing for saucy-sru by the looks of it
<mapps> ugh
<mapps> thunder/lightning and lotsa rain..got stuck in it
<MartijnVdS> mapps: very very frightening?
<DJones> Galilo, Galileo
 * popey does the fandago
<DJones> Magnifico :)
<mapps> yes
<mapps> i was very scared MartijnVdS
<mapps> :P
<mapps> not really..but getting soaked isnt ideal
<bigcalm> popey: I had pizza. I regretted it
<bigcalm> popey: you are to blame :P
<popey> i had chinese
<popey> way too much, loads of left-overs
<bigcalm> I should have gone that route as well
<bigcalm> At 11%, think I'll have just the one beer tonight
<foobarry> anyone recommend a good budget camcorder?
<ali1234> how much do you want to spend?
<ali1234> and what do you want to use it for?
<foobarry> miscellaneous, including youtube quality vids, with internal mic
<foobarry> HD is nice
<ali1234> a good quality web cam will serve you better than a cheap camcorder if you want to make youtube videos - and also be cheaper
<maps|wrk> hello
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> hi
<dwatkins>  lo
<diddledan> heh: http://i.imgur.com/oXQgLWk.jpg
<dwatkins> no surprise, I think I know one or two people who use bing
<diddledan> I think they must be the blip from 2009
<dwatkins> is that the numbers for people searching Google for 'yahoo', 'google' or 'bing', though?
<diddledan> donno
<dwatkins> everyone knows that searching google for 'google' can break the internet.
<ali1234> "news reference volume"
<Azelphur> does anyone know any decent video editors? I tried avidemux but it crashes reproducibly all the time.
<Azelphur> I got bored of avidemux once I hit 3 bugs (2 of which are crash bugs)
<ali1234> blender
<ali1234> but it depends what you are trying to do
<Azelphur> ali1234: cut, paste. That's literally all I need
<ali1234> blender is comparable to after effects... although far far harder to use
<ali1234> how many cuts do you want to make?
<Azelphur> 1 xD
<ali1234> then you don't want a video editor
<Azelphur> I could do it with ffmpeg in all honesty but ffmpeg doesn't seem to like the video file
<ali1234> just use ffmpeg/avconv
<ali1234> if ffmpeg doesn't like the video then no video editor will play it either
<ali1234> convert it first
<ali1234> they all use ffmpeg/libav internally anyway
<Azelphur> all video players play it, it's a standard avi, ffmpeg has problems with things all the time where it refuses to convert things
<ali1234> there is no such thing as a standard avi
<Azelphur> oh hey I got it to work, passed it -acodec copy and it was happier.
<ali1234> figures
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-29
<ali1234> is it AC3 or DTS or something?
<ali1234> ripped from DVD/blu-ray?
<Azelphur> MS MPEG-4 Video v3 (DIV3)
<ali1234> what about the audio stream though?
<Azelphur> AC3
<maps|wrk> ah people around
<maps|wrk> hello
<maps|wrk> maps speaks everyone goes:(
<maps|wrk> grmpf
<daftykins> :o
<skinofstars> hi guys. i'm having some problems with nfs shares. i'm getting "exportfs /home/username/dir  does not support NFS export"
<skinofstars> not sure who's still awake at this time and wants to troubleshoot nfs issues :)
<mapps> morning
<foobarry> mornin
<bashrc> morning
<popey> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<jussi> I like to eat mussels :)
<MartijnVdS> weird!
<bashrc_> installing pump.io seems really complicated
<brobostigon> i have tried several times, and could never get it installed never mind running.
<bashrc> statusnet was a lot easier
<brobostigon> yes, that i got woprking somewhat easier.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * penguin42 yawwwnnnns at bigcalm
<bashrc> looks like my proxy ports are messed up
<mapps> afternoon
 * MartijnVdS removes a metric ***ton of scopes
<MartijnVdS> bye "firefoxbookmarks", bye "virtualbox"
<MartijnVdS> bye "mediascanner" (whatever that may be)
<MartijnVdS> unity-scope-gourmet?!
<MartijnVdS> Why is this installed?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Presumably it's so that when Popey searches for Flapjack he gets something less offensive
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I just removed the packages.
<popey> mmmmm flapjack
<daftykins> i was just considering making some flapjack tonight
<daftykins> as i have no post-meal snacks :)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u12adt43n47o0bh/flapjack.jpg
<popey> nom
<MooDoo> hello all
<daftykins> heya
<SuperEngineer> Common sense prevails [at last].  Thank youy. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-takes-important-step-towards-modernising-copyright
<skinofstars> hey all, has anyone had problems with nfs on 12.04? i'm getting 'does not suppport NFS export' errors when trying to share a folder in my home
<penguin42> skinofstars: Have you got the appropriate packages installed?
<skinofstars> penguin42: nfs-kernel-server, portmap, rpcbind... i think that's all i need
<penguin42> skinofstars: Yeh that should work
<penguin42> skinofstars: when you say you're trying to share a folder in your home - how? Just by doing /etc/exports or some other way?
<daftykins> hrmm anyone know off hand if there's a decent virtualbox driver in a package for trusty?
<daftykins> +graphics
<skinofstars> penguin42: yep. adding it to /etc/exports, then running exportfs -ar
<penguin42> daftykins: trusty certainly does have virtualbox-quest packages - whether they're decent I can't say
<penguin42> skinofstars: What filesystem is your home?
<daftykins> penguin42: just trying to run an OpenGL app, would it be virtualbox-guest-x11 ?
<skinofstars> penguin42: ext4
<penguin42> skinofstars: Not encrypted or anything?
<skinofstars> penguin42: actually, the filesystem isn't even partioned up. i doubt very much it was encrypted. this is a preinstalled ubuntu on a dell laptop
<skinofstars> one of those dell xps developer laptops
<skinofstars> penguin42: that said, there is a .ecryptfs file in /home, so it might well be
<skinofstars> penguin42: damn, that means i'm gonna have to mount it outside the home folder, doesn't it
<penguin42> skinofstars: Hmm i'm betting it's ecryptfs - I've never looked at nfs exporting those
<penguin42> skinofstars: When you reinstlal your laptop with Trusty,
<penguin42> skinofstars: Use full disk luks encryption - it's 1) safer 2) has no problem with nfs
<skinofstars> penguin42: wicked, thanks. my own fault here for assuming it wasn't home encrypted. i'll do the mount workaround for now. appreciate you talking through it.
<penguin42> no problem
<daftykins> heh solved my issue
<daftykins> needed to purge nvidia files to get a stock config back, after having installed vbox guest additions
<daftykins> (this particular respin of ubuntu is for XBMC and thus comes with drivers out of the box that aren't handy)
<popey> Evening slackers
<daftykins> hi popey what's new?
<popey> i made a few webapps for ubuntu phone this weekend
<popey> for fun
<zleap> hi
<zleap> popey, can we still get officual ubuntu cd's
<daftykins> they'd have to be DVDs now
<zleap> well yeah
<zleap> that is fine
<zleap> i think they will press lts only so that is 14.04
<popey> we only press LTS
<popey> and clearly that's not done yet
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so can we get some from alan B like before paying postage
<zleap> i am planning ahead
<bigcalm> Visiting parents is somewhat boring
<zleap> lol
<popey> i have no idea
<bigcalm> Spent 4+ hours configuring a windows 8.1 20" tablet for my mother today
<zleap> ouch
<bigcalm> 1st experience of windows 8.1, don't want to use it again
<popey> wait what
<popey> 20"!?
<zleap> it took me 1 hour on Wednesday to set up debian (minimal install)  with a MC server
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> It's an "all-in-one"
<zleap> why 4 hours
<bigcalm> Sony Vaio Tap 20
<popey> so its a pc?
<popey> with a battery?
<penguin42> the big touchscreen stuff is nice
<penguin42> they've just put a big ~60" touchscreen in Manchester library showing old maps that you can zoom into - nice
<zleap> i take it 14.04 supports touch screens
<ali1234> not really
<popey> define "supports"?
<ali1234> not unless you run the unity 8 preview
<ali1234> it supports them via the usual mouse emulation :)
<ali1234> same as it always did
<zleap> ok
<bigcalm> popey: yes
<ali1234> those 20" tablets are pretty cool
<ali1234> just a pity they run win 8
<popey> intel?
<ali1234> yes
 * penguin42 was geekily thinking the type of consoles ST:NG had where they swung across a chair would work
<ali1234> they are proper PCs
<ali1234> they are like that apple mac where everything is in the monitor
<popey> imac?
<popey> but with a battery?
<ali1234> i dunno what they are called
<popey> Asus threatened to release one of them years back
<ali1234> yeah, with a battery and touchscreen
<popey> i nearly bought one
<popey> but they didnt sell the battery one in this country
<ali1234> you put it on your desktop and it's just like a normal monitor
<popey> and it turned out to have crappy GPU
<popey> so I bought an imac
<ali1234> well they probably still have a weak GPU
<ali1234> but you have to go to a big box PC to avoid that
<popey> Seeing lots of Google Play adverts on telly at the moment
<dwatkins> The 27" iMac comes with an Nvidia GeForce GTX 780M, which is better than what I have in my desktop PC.
<ali1234> okay, big box PC or ridiculously expensive luxury apple product :)
<popey> dunno why my imac has but its nvidia
<popey> could do with putting a bigger disk in it actually
<dwatkins> I gather most Apple products compare well with PCs of the same spec, they just start at high spec, there are no budget options.
<popey> but that's a massive PITA
<ali1234> dwatkins: they really don't
<daftykins> popey: is it even a model where you can? :)
<dwatkins> Well, they used to.
<penguin42> ali1234: Some do - I just wish PC laptops would more commonly use the HD displays
<ali1234> they come out at a similar price if you include the physical size of the product
<popey> daftykins: what makes you ssay it cant
<daftykins> popey: just depends when you bought it for how sane it is to get into i guess
<dwatkins> So you get what you pay for.
<ali1234> yes, you get luxury if you pay for it
<dwatkins> I like my macbook, it's nice and sturdy.
<popey> daftykins: yes, you can, i have seen guides online
<popey> but tbh I'd probably take it and get it done because I cba
<dwatkins> you need suction cups to remove the iMac screen to get inside
<popey> yeah
<popey> maybe one of those hybrid drives
<dwatkins> that's what I put in my macbook, popey - 750 GB hybrid Seagate
<ali1234> GTX 780M is actually worse than my graphics card :)
<dwatkins> I have a 660, but I'm more concerned with CPU performance, so chose something that would do fairly well but not be expensive
<popey> june 2009 is apparently when i bought the kitchen imac
<popey> not bad really, it's used daily
<dwatkins> likewise with my 2010 macbook
<popey> 320GB disk is getting a bit tight
<daftykins> oh is it a 2010 one?
<daftykins> my clients one is a mid-2010 and that was easy peasy
<daftykins> main issue is how to mount the SSD though given the original cage was obviously for the 3.5" disk
<daftykins> i just used double sided sticky pads in the end :D
<dwatkins> mine is, daftykins, yeah - it's really easy to get the base off to replace the hard drive, upgrade RAM etc. - stuff has changed a lot in that regard recently, though, as you probably know.
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> that's why i was getting at the age of popey's
<popey> mine cant be 2010
<popey> i bought it in 2009
<daftykins> ah might be even easier then
<dwatkins> the serial number will tell you what model it is, you can look it up on everymac
<daftykins> i just bought a single suction cup, plenty :)
<popey> well, it's a 2009 20" â»
<popey> 2.66
<ali1234> dwatkins: the 780M should be pretty similar to the 660 performance wise, and the 780M is about half of a 780
<ali1234> 780M has much lower power use of course, being a mobile part
<daftykins> popey: you could probably even ditch the optical for a second drive :)
<popey> no, i need that
<popey> http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+20-Inch+EMC+2266+Hard+Drive+Replacement/919
<popey> doesn't look as bad as I thought
<popey> now, which drive...
<daftykins> sticking to mechanical for capacity's sake?
<daftykins> or a lovely big SSD :)
<popey> well, i want capacity and to not have to do this again
<popey> so probably 2TB
<popey> but then I'll need a big USB disk for backups too
<daftykins> WD Red if it stays on all the time \o/
<popey> yeah, its on most of the time
<dwatkins> I'm waiting for 1TB SSDs to come down in price.
<popey> buy shouldn't. i will make it power off
<popey> unfortunately if someone else is logged in, it doesnt shutdown
<dwatkins> can't you sleep it?
<popey> you can but it prompts for the admin pass
<popey> whats special about red drives daftykins ?
<dwatkins> ah ok, I'm admin so that wouldn't be an issue for me, but I see what you mean.
<popey> i have 4 users
<daftykins> certified for 24/7 running and 3yr warranty
<dwatkins> WD Red according to scan.co.uk: "The drives are designed and extensively tested for compatibility in the unique 24x7 operating environment and demanding system requirements of home and small office NAS."
<popey> oh
<popey> it doesnt need 24/7
<dwatkins> I have three 3TB Seagate Barracudas in my NAS, one of them started giving SMART errors last week.
<popey> so, i want something big and fast
<popey> hybrid I guess
<penguin42> there's a fairly recent survey of drive life time isn't there?
<dwatkins> I only know of Google's disk survey from a few years back.
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-ST2000DX001-Hybrid-Internal-Solid/dp/B00ELAVI3I
<dwatkins> If anyone has good stats on hard drive lifetimes, it'll be Google.
<penguin42> no, there was a much more recent one
<popey> any reason not to get that?
<penguin42> http://blog.backblaze.com/2014/01/21/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/
<popey> so hitachi 2TB
<penguin42> popey: I'd say a seagate hybrid wouldn't be a bad buy
<daftykins> ^i've used a Lenovo with one, they're nice
<daftykins> as long as you're happy with whatever warranty seagate offer, it should be good
<popey> warranty is probably least of my worries
<penguin42> my normal approach with drive warranties is just to put them on the deadpile and not buy that brand for a while
<penguin42> I never return drives unless they'll do it just with the top plate - never return data
<popey> i have never returned a drive
<popey> well, i returned an entire laptop with a duff drive once
<popey> the kitchen imac has been one of my better computer purchases
<popey> as has wifeys mbp
<penguin42> Popey: Do you use it when making apple pie?
<popey> i do not
<popey> \o/ ordered drive and suction cups, thanks for the advice chaps
<penguin42> you do get some bizarre orders with Macs - I remember the time when the norm was RAM and a putty knife
<daftykins> hahaha
<dwatkins> iFixit call them 'spudgers'
<MartijnVdS> so does "Dave" (the crazy ozzie)
<popey> i have previously upgraded the RAM from 2GB it came with to 8GB
<penguin42> dwatkins: No, not the little ones for clips, the big putty knifes you needed to get into a Mac Mini
<dwatkins> ahh
<popey> so this will probably be the last upgrade for the plucky imac that could
<dwatkins> popey: I take it that wasn't a case of removing the display
<daftykins> RAM goes in at the bottom on those
<daftykins> couple o' screws
<dwatkins> handy
<daftykins> 4 x SODIMMs iirc
<popey> 2x
<daftykins> ah perhaps that one was more restricted
<daftykins> i was able to take RAM from one of my clients machines and put it in the iMac to double up, then buy one set for the MBP
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-30
<daftykins> i haven't laughed so hard at something online for ages
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/J5EUMZh.jpg
<daftykins> be warned - some rude words!
<mapps> hello
<MartijnVdS> http://louhuang.com/2048-numberwang/
<shauno> there was an LHC one of those floating around, that was fun
<shauno> the numberwang one just breaks my head though
<MartijnVdS> shauno: isn't that the poin? :P
<shauno> but I need my head :(
<MartijnVdS> on a Sunday?
<shauno> I'm at work :)  the days are all the same to me
<MartijnVdS> "it's all a blur man"
<shauno> well, I mean this week the weekend is on monday.  last week it was on thursday.  as long as I get a weekend, sat&sun have little significance
<MartijnVdS> weird!
<shauno> it's not that bad.  sometimes I get two weekends in one week :)
<MartijnVdS> what kind of job is that?
<popey> happy birthday neuro
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> Sup?
<popey> the down side with being one of the most active people approving apps into the store, is that when _I_ make apps, I have to wait â¹
<MartijnVdS> popey: I had that with code reviews at my previous job :)
<nigelb> popey: haha
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: happens to me all the time with code review.
<nigelb> I review within a week.
<nigelb> My reviews take a few weeks :\
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: I just poke the reviewers often
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: they hate me for it, but at least code goes through :)
<MartijnVdS> (and they know they shouldn't hate me for it, because they know they should do the reviews anyway)
<popey> this will all be fixed once it's all automated
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> Indeed it is.
 * dwatkins discovers just how many clocks he has which aren't daylight-savings aware.
<MartijnVdS> too many.
<ali1234> i have zero
<czajkowski> aloha
<bashrc> looks like the irsii clock hasn't updated
<popey> I had one to change, the cooker
<popey> oh, and my firefox os phone it seems
<Laney> just the cooker here
<Laney> haven't checked the ubuntu phone yet, but I assume that works ...
<Laney> tzdata 4eva
<MartijnVdS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY
<popey> Laney: nope
<popey> but mine seemed to be set to etc/utc
<Laney> Sounds like it worked then
<Laney> if you got daylight savings on UTC that'd be bad
<Laney> mine updated fine
<popey> i had to go in and re-find london
<popey> previously when I searched for london it offered "city of london" which I chose, and got etc/utc
<popey> this time it chose UTC+1
<bashrc> time zone fized
<bashrc> fixed
<bashrc> going forwards and backwards in time is so annoying
 * penguin42 notes this direction is more annoying
<dwatkins> I don't want to wait until October to get my hour back! *waves pitchfork*
<dwatkins> This makes me wonder if Chrome OS will run on my MacBook... http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-s-Economic-Downfall-Is-Foretold-by-the-Rise-of-Linux-Based-Chromebooks-434648.shtml
<penguin42> hmm, that's a bit of a bizarre prediction given how the chromebooks are all at the very very bottom end
 * SuperEngineer just had system freeze caused by a game in Steam [Octodad]; found it to be a sort of x freeze/death as was eventually able able to get to a non-x login...
<SuperEngineer> had to resort to REISUB to shut down [annoyoingly]...
<SuperEngineer> nearest thing to a problem on reboot was I had to put 2 apps back into the normal places in the [4] virtual deskops
<SuperEngineer> conclusion:  11/10 to Linux & Ubuntu resilience.  Me happy.
 * SuperEngineer now logs off cleanly to a bleachbit & normal restart  ;)
<foobarry> can't turn on my wifes moto g...battery is charged. any ideas? stupid sealed battery things
<philwyett> Shameless LUG promotion. Leigh in Lancashire, now has its own LUG. Find us at http://leigh.lug.org.uk and https://twitter.com/leigh_lug ... If you know anyone in our area, point them our way. Shameless plug ends. :-D
<penguin42> philwyett: Heck, how many LUGs are there up here now?
<penguin42> philwyett: I'm just on the bury/manc border and have gone to ManLUG for ~20 years
<philwyett> penguin42: The more LUGs and users the better. :-) ManLUG has been going strong for many many years. Hopefully I can attend one of the meetings/events soon to learn from those both being part of and organising LUGs for so long.
<penguin42> philwyett: It looks like it would take me about 1.5hours to get to Leigh from here unfortunately
<philwyett> penguin42: Travel is an issue for those not really local. I would like to have the occasional weekend event where weekday/night time constraints are less of an issue. But that is for thinking about and planning in the future.
<mapps> afternoon
<mapps> there's no LUG near me philwyett it just said coming soon or something when i checked=[
<philwyett> mapps: No contact info at all to ask how soon? Where in the UK are you? Thought of starting your own LUG?
<mapps> i dont remember seeing any
<mapps> will check again
 * penguin42 grumbles on 3g as his virgin misbehaves
<mapps> :(
<mapps> just cant get this exim4 t work
<mapps> grmpf
<bashrc> mapps: to install exim4 http://freedombone.uk.to/#sec-4.16
<dwatkins> can we save groklaw with encrypted e-mail?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: But.. but.. Postfix is MUCH easier to configure
<MartijnVdS> that guy is wrong.
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: also, he lists "192.168.1.0/60", he's not smart.
<bashrc> why so?
<MartijnVdS> A /60 is never valid on an ipv4 address, which is only 32 bits long
<MartijnVdS> and MOST people use a /24 at home
<bashrc> is that the number of bits?
<penguin42> yes, /24 means the first 24 bits are all the same in the subnet
 * shauno uses a /48 at home ;)
 * penguin42 uses a /25
<penguin42> well, 2 separate /25's
<shauno> also, that option should be 'hosts to relay for' or similar.  his renaming is a little confusing
<bashrc> its the terminology used by the exim installer
<shauno> that doesn't seem right.  he specifies 'internet site'; that shouldn't have any smarthost options
<mapps> MartijnVdS i just wanted to be able to send email using gmail smtp not use my machine as an email server as such
<penguin42> hmm I wonder which route it's connected via this time
<mapps> ?:)
 * penguin42 is having cable problems today
<mapps> :(
<directhex> saw the new muppets movie yesterday
<mapps> any good?
 * penguin42 starts humming the muppets theme tune
<directhex> it was okay. i loved some of the songs
<directhex> it's a muppets movie, there was singing
<mapps> not a bad night for once..could probably just about sit outsidw without being too cold
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> supposed to have hit 14 here today
<czajkowski> daftykins: ello
<daftykins> hello ma'am, how do?
<czajkowski> not bad
<czajkowski> daftykins: see pm please
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> need a favour
<mapps> watching captivity with super hot elisha cuthbert
<daftykins> she was Kim in 24 right?
<mapps> yep!!
<mapps> u seen all 24 ye?
<daftykins> nah only about half
<mapps> get watchingÂ¬
<mapps> !!
<mapps> may is new 24;]]
<daftykins> http://sonisphere.co.uk/
<daftykins> my dad pointed out this to me today
<mapps> will check when my films done:D
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-23
<mapp> done it again
<jussi> o/
<jussi> anyone actually awake yet?
<jussi> @time london
<nigelb> jussi: hello
<jussi> gday mr nigelb, long time no see
<nigelb> jussi: hah, same to you :)
 * jussi wonders if AlanBell is around...
 * nigelb hasn't seen AlanBell in a long time
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapp> hi jussi:D
<jussi> oh dear, its mapp!!! RUN!!! :P :P
<mapp> yes
<mapp> :D
<mapp> you still in the Finland jussi?
<mapp> :)
<jussi> nope...
<jussi> am now in australia
<nigelb> jussi: visiting? Or you've moved back?
<jussi> moved
<nigelb> Oh wow.
<nigelb> No wonder I haven't seen you around.
<nigelb> :)
<mapp> what
<mapp> wow
<mapp> jussi you moved from finland to aus?!?!
<jussi> yes
<mapp> nice:DDD
<zmoylan-pi> from fridge to the oven...
<mapp> forever?
<mapp> or a visa for so long?
<jussi> zmoylan-pi: from the freezer to the oven...
<jussi> mapp: I am an aussie, I can be here for as long as I feel like...
<mapp> ah
<mapp> i thought you were a finn:)
<jussi> and I never say forever, just "lets see"
<mapp> did you move on your own jussi?
<zmoylan-pi> i.m sure an aeroplane was involved :-P
<mapp> i mean no familt or partner;p
<mapp> family
<mapp> i thought jussi was finnish
<knightwise> hey everyone
<mapps> hey
<elfy> hi mapps
<elfy> and morning
<mapps> er hi elfy
<mapps> never seen you here before:D
<elfy> well I used to be here - then wasn't - now am ;)
<mapps> :)
<mapps> im  not even uk anymore
<mapps> well am i?> whats it clased as here
<mapps> gib
<elfy> not a clue - not sure anyone would worry
<mapps> :D
<elfy> if Gib isn't counted as GB, then I'm Maltese :p
<mapps> ive switched south london to gib
<mapps> and im still doing the same
<mapps> smoke too much drink too much:P
<elfy> I'd switch London for anywhere too
<mapps> but im a south london boy:)
<mapps> always will be
<mapps> its a dump
<mapps> and i know that but i love se1:)
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morninb
<elfy> morning MooDoo
<mapps> too tired to type in russian;/
<MooDoo> howdy elfy how are you on this fine day?
<elfy> grumbling at the outside - but other than that all's good :)
<mapps> :)
<mapps> i sometimes find it hard to translate all the time...eng -> ger eng -> rusian
<mapps> why cant everyone speak eng
<elfy> I find it hard translating eng > eng at times
<mapps> ;]
<MooDoo> I wish people would talk proper like what i does ;)
<mapps> i talk properly here
<mapps> in other channels maybe my language skills are  wong:
<elfy> no idea, I don't use #ubuntu-de :p
<mapps> #ubuntu-de and #'ubuntu-ru;p
<mapps> my german is better than my russian
<Myrtti_> I don't think Cities: Skylines works as well on my Linux as it does on hubby's Mac :-<
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<jussi> Myrtti_: since I havent spoken to you in ages, congratulations :)
<Myrtti_> jussi: thank you :-)
<popey> a jussi appears
<mapps> hi popey
<jussi> heya popey, long time no see :)
<jussi> Myrtti: the FB pics were stunning :)
<mapps> jussi i sent you a pm;/
<Myrtti> they ought to be, I'm expecting a considerable bill from him :-)
<jussi> mapps: ive been lazy, and Im nearish to melbourne
<jussi> sometimes open erp/odoo confunds me...
<jussi> +o
<mapps> aha cool:D
<mapps> so jussi you arent finnish?
<Myrtti> just briefly adopted the Finnish lifestyle
<Myrtti> he's lapsed back to his native form now.
<jussi> "for now"
<jussi> ;)
<mapps> so where were you born jussi?
<mapps> but nice with the aus mov
<jussi> in australia...
<mapps> move
<mapps> oh
<mapps> less interesting now;p
<mapps> thought you were a fin
<mapps> you got dual citizenship?
 * jussi goes away...
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Near Miss Day! :-D
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Mondays
<zmoylan-pi> is that an oxymoron?
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, the happy Monday, or the happy Near Miss Day? ;)
<foobarry> my 5yr old had a melt down even before getting dressed today
<zmoylan-pi> they learn so young these days :'-)
<JamesTait> foobarry, when I was riding back from school, I passed a mother with her son over her shoulder, carrying him to school.
<foobarry> hehe
<JamesTait> It sounded like he'd had a full-on meltdown and had thrown himeself on the ground and refused to move.
<MooDoo> sounds like you're having fun JamesTait :)
<zmoylan-pi> when i carried my nephew anywhere because he was misbehaving i carried him like a bag of spuds under my arm.  not as easy but more humiliating for him. he learned fast
<foobarry> usually he loves school. the other day in the playground, all the kids got to go outside and were given chalk to draw whatever they wanted. some kids drew flowers, rainbows, unicorns, my son led my wife to a corner where he proudly showed her a nicely formatted table of sums 10+10=20 , 7+3=10 etc
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: This is why a sound-proof box on wheels is so useful.
<TwistedLucidity> Oh gods...he's going to be an accountant!
<foobarry> i don't think my son is aspie but he shares certain common tendencies
<JamesTait> MooDoo, my eldest came in to wake me at 7:25 this morning because he "thought it was 8 o'clock or something and we were going to be late."
<foobarry> he told the teacher the other day he wanted to learn to build stable buildings. i think he just likes learning atm
<foobarry> but maths is the favourite, like his father, and his father before him
<JamesTait> Nothing wrong with that.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: mine was up at 6:30 as he wasn't tired any more.
<foobarry> esp. while my fb feed is full of mums incorrectly claiming that kids don't learn stuff at school in scandie countries until age X
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: 0630? Plenty of time to wash the dishe, brush the cat, take out the rubbish and dust the low shelves!
<JamesTait> MooDoo, I think that was my youngest. Mom woke me while she was getting ready for work around 6:40, and when she went downstairs I heard his voice.
<JamesTait> TwistedLucidity++
<TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: Can you tell that I don't have kids? :-P
<JamesTait> Not really, TwistedLucidity - I have two, and still say the same kind of things several times a day.
<Oli``> Are there any tablets I can do a regular install of Ubuntu on? I need to do a touchscreen demo of something and dedicated kiosk hardware is far too expensive for prototyping.
<awilkins> Oli``, You'd need an x86 tablet for a regular install.
<awilkins> Something designed to run full-fat Windows (not RT) is probably your best bet
<awilkins> Alternately, you might be able to simulate it by putting VNC on a tablet
<awilkins> One of those Asus multitouch netbook convertible things might be an idea, or another laptop with a touchscreen like a Del M3800
<awilkins> You might be able to get an XPS13 second hand on eBay
<foobarry> amazon seems to be full of uber cheap torches and monoculars that i can't resist buying
<zmoylan-pi> me and my android tablet are not rabbits of positive euphoria... flippin thing won't install some apps for some reason.  i'd love a ubuntu tablet.
<popey> didn't knightwise buy a microsoft tablet and get good performance from ubuntu on it?
<zmoylan-pi> didn't they have problems only with suspend?
<zmoylan-pi> everything else worked ok
<popey> dunno
<popey> hence asking
<MooDoo> yay got my ubuntu server + glusterfs setup working :D
<diddledan> popey: I recall someone mentioning having put ubuntu on one, but don't remember who it was
<zmoylan-pi> it would be in the logs if someone has access to them
<Myrtti_> BOO. http://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/2yqggj/potential_fixes_for_your_game_issues/cpcg1hk *snif*
<davmor2> JamesTait: nearly missed your morning greeting I was busy restoring my pc after a fresh vivid install :D
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: I've been on for a while just busy, nice write up on 14.04 gluster by the way, didn't really read just a scan but is seemed well thought out, I'll have a proper read tonight
 * JamesTait is still on Utopic.
<MooDoo> davmor2: i expect lots of comments as it was a rushed post from my bash history, but yeah it works well :)
<popey> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ https://twitter.com/popey/status/579969203693838336
<MooDoo> stop teasing popey
<popey> Nope, never!
<bigcalm> popey: bag
<bashrc_> a bq box?
<bigcalm> popey: bah
<diddledan> meh, I've got plenty of boxes
<bigcalm> popey: did you get an email saying it had been dispatched?
<popey> nope
<popey> just turned up
<popey> AIUI they shipped on friday
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> Then the next 3 days of be being at the company office will be annoying
<bashrc_> which reminds me. I should try ubuntu touch again
<ali1234> so is it actually possible to buy an ubuntu phone currently? or did they just sell a couple of hundred and then stop?
<bigcalm> ali1234: they do flash sales
<ali1234> so "no" then?
<bigcalm> ali1234: don't know how many at a time, but I've been bq tweet a few times
<zmoylan-pi> sorry officer i was speeding to get home to buy a phone :-P
<moreati> popey: bad news, you're holding it upside down. That box is actually from É¯oÉËbqËÊÊÊ
<bigcalm> ali1234: "currently" no, but if you follow bq on twitter, you'll see them announce the next flash sales
<directhex> open source. https://twitter.com/directhex/status/579970510584438784
<popey> hah, i do that all the time
<popey> s/couple of hundred/some thousands/ but yeah, flash sales apparently
<nigelb> directhex: It's more fun when I see a pull request. From me.
<directhex> hah!
<popey> :)
<popey> brilliant
<diplo> What twitter clinets do people use on their Ubuntu boxes? Currently using hotot which is okay but crashes randomly
<awilkins> Web page
<davmor2> diplo: a web page
<zmoylan-pi> i use tweetdeck in browser
<davmor2> diplo: or the webapp on my phone
<zmoylan-pi> and i do have a command line client set up on rasp pi but i haven't used it in ages and can't remember it's name
<diplo> Don't really like the webpage, used to use tweetdeck but not in a few years
<diplo> Just about to install vivid and was going to try something different
<diplo> I like tthe cli, but I think twitter under cli is a step too far :D
<diddledan> eh? http://gadgetshow.channel5.com/news/no-more-unlocking-your-phone-will-soon-stay-unlocked-your-pocket
<zmoylan-pi> but you set the text to green on a black background and you feel all hackery :-P
<MooDoo> yeah i use tweetdeck too
<davmor2> diplo: just use the web-app :)
 * diplo trys tweetdeck before reinstall!
<zmoylan-pi> i often use plume an android beside my computer to spare a little of the cpu on ancient netbook
<MooDoo> I might try vivid, I use ubuntu gnome so it will be nice to see what that's like
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: why do you still use such an underpowered "monster"?
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> because it runs for 12+ hours on battery :-)
<davmor2> MooDoo: too fast for you good sir too fast for you :)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I'm betting my phone is more powerful :-D
<zmoylan-pi> for ~levels of 'run' :-D
<MooDoo> davmor2: I can handle it, might even give it more ram coz i can
<zmoylan-pi> but does it have a real keyboard, 10" screen and 200+gb of storage?
<zmoylan-pi> and run lubuntu quite nicely
<davmor2> MooDoo: you might want to try ubuntu-next for the fun of it too, I'd do that from lxc or something though :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: or just the live session :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'll stick with what I have thank you very much, now that i'm not running any windows at all in my house
<MooDoo> davmor2: i removed windows 10 and turn my backup server from windows 7 to debian
<diddledan> MooDoo: doesn't that get a bit draughty?
<zmoylan-pi> apart from his windows which run glassOS :-)
<MooDoo> diddledan: only up my kilt
<davmor2> MooDoo: what has anything I've said got to do with Windows?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Ubuntu-next is unity8 desktop cd
<MooDoo> davmor2: sorry me thinking about 10 things at once.
<davmor2> MooDoo: Man don't try that you only have the capacity for 1 :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: just reading up on it
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're not wrong this morning :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: you won't want to use it as a daily driver currently I don't think, but it is fun as a preview of how the work is progressing :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: when i upgrade my ram in my laptop i'll give it a go :D
<MooDoo> although i did promise myself i'd stop all this playing about
<diddledan> I prefer goats
<diddledan> I've got a lot of goat in my computer
<MooDoo> hehe
<knightwise> hey diddledan , MooDoo
<diddledan> MooDooni
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> ello knightwise
<knightwise> diddledan: what you wanted to say was "i perfer looking at goats on my computer"
<diddledan> lol
<MooDoo> diddledan: you gone nuts mate ;)
<diddledan> I think it was a strange tab-complete fail
<diddledan> that's what I'm gonna go with, anyway
<MooDoo> lol
<diddledan> MooDooni sounds like an illusionist
<MooDoo> diddledan: first i'm here
<MooDooni> diddledan: now i'm not lol
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> nutter!
<MooDoo> :D
<diddledan> I saw you do the switch, tho
<MooDoo> i should of quit the channel first
<diddledan> I like how penn & teller used to show you how a trick was done, and then to prove it they'd do it again... differently
<diddledan> nearly feeding time at the zoo
<zmoylan-pi> ook?
<diddledan> ook???
<zmoylan-pi> oooook!!
<diddledan> is that a new animal?
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's magic but not a lot
<zmoylan-pi> we need more Librarians
<diddledan> we need less oiks
<zmoylan-pi> but ooks are ok
 * diddledan looks in a book for an ook
<zmoylan-pi> try discworld
<diddledan> see elite:dangerous have added a new space station called "pratchett's disc"?
<zmoylan-pi> is it supported by elephants?
<diddledan> I'm sure they had a petition
<diddledan> 60% elephants were in favour iirc
<zmoylan-pi> but not the fifth elephant for obvious reasons
<diddledan> obviously
<diddledan> now being insane reminds me. christmas is the time when you should lock up any insane people - because the sanity claws come down the chimney
<shauno> is it past your bedtime?
<zmoylan-pi> he forgot to take his dried frog pills again
<diddledan> shauno: shush you!
<shauno> I'll take that as a yes :)
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> as I said earlier. zoo.
<diddledan> I think the randomness is a byproduct of being entrenched in gentoo right now
<diddledan> that's what you say when you return something faulty: bye, product!
<diddledan> kinda like "bye, fufu"
<diddledan> meh, I can't find a clip of that
<diddledan> it's in repossessed me thinks
<knightwise> hmm.. by the looks of it not a lot of progress has been made with the drivers for the new dell XPS 13
<popey> knightwise: it's in progress
<popey> we have people working on it
<knightwise> popey: cool. I'm waiting for the support to be completed before I get one of them. Been looking at a companion machine for my mac for  a while now
<popey> Dunno the ETA.
<knightwise> Currently using my Surface pro 1 running ubuntu , the keyboard is not very practical.
<knightwise> I have at least 3 months to go at my currentl client so I  don't need to buy one right away
<Sebsebsebb> Anyone about
<bashrc_> no
<Sebsebsebb> Received my bq Ubuntu phone today and. Hardly  even. Done anything with it and already gone wrong it seems so stuck on the Ubuntu logo now
<Azelphur> Sebsebsebb: you can probably press and hold the power button to force a reboot, not that it's a proper solution but yea
<diddledan> hint, the full-stop (dot) doesn't work like you think it does
<popey> Sebsebsebb: what was it doing before that?
<diddledan> it might be a botched update?
<diddledan> though afaict the update system is pretty well tested these days?
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: is this first boot?
<popey> lets find out what he was doing first before speculating :)
<davmor2> popey: indeed
<diddledan> you've got to speculate to accumulate :-p
<diddledan> I have no idea where I heard that
<Sebsebsebb> To the full stop thing I am messaging from a tablet at the moment so there may be certain mistakes as a result pluses going to be slower to reply as a result to
<diddledan> fairy fluff
<diddledan> err. fairy nuff?
 * daftykins strolls back in
<diddledan> I was being an ass, anyway
<daftykins> forgot i restarted for that openssl update - or whatever it was
<Sebsebsebb> ,no this is a boot after it's already been properly booted up I think
<popey> how long has it been sat like that?
<popey> and is it a tiny ubuntu logo or a big one?
<popey> and what were you doing before hand?
<Sebsebsebb> It crashed after I gave it a good look around
<popey> so probably unity8 or mir crashed
<popey> reboot it.
<popey> (hold down power till you get blinded by a bq logo)
<diddledan> is it v. bright?
<popey> i haven't even taken mine out of the box yet
<popey> it's black on a white background
<diddledan> eep
<davmor2> diddledan: the initial BQ logo on the phone is
<popey> imagine your display being off, then suddenly being on, full brightness, white
<Sebsebsebb> Was working ok and then this with the Ubuntu logo in centre of screen
<diddledan> sounds like the apple logo used to be on my mbp
<diddledan> aah, it didn't reboot
<Sebsebsebb> Yes I was thinking something had crashed on software,
<diddledan> popey's prolly right
<diddledan> popey is rather awesome, though, so we tend to trust him ;-)
<popey> lulz
<popey> davmor2 crashes phones more then me
<davmor2> diddledan: I never trust popey never :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> so we've got davmor2 the phonekiller and daftykins the disckiller
<bigcalm> Where's my spy camera?
<davmor2> diddledan: oh no I killz allz the softwarez
<diddledan> davmor2: that's not very nice of you
<davmor2> diddledan: I'm QA
<Sebsebsebb> Can't just take the battery out of this phone it seems and put back in as for. Trying to re boot with buttons not worked when tried before so I'll try again
<diddledan> yeah, but still, imagine you were a nice happy software prog and then a big mean and nasty davmor2 came along and squished you!?!
<bigcalm> Order #40001710 - could be waiting a while
<diddledan> bigcalm: they prolly started their numbering on 40000000
<bigcalm> ;)
<diddledan> so yours is the 1710th :-p
<bigcalm> Could still be waiting a while
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: press volume up and power button for 10 seconds+ when the light is red release the volume button and tap the power button
<bigcalm> That's a lot of trips to the post office
<Sebsebsebb> Would be good if could take battery out like my other phones but no not this one
<Sebsebsebb> Inhad in back in mind that they were going to apparantly start shipping out on Friday but didn't expect to get today
<Sebsebsebb> Also I got mine on the second flash sale day
<bashrc_> will firefox run on ubuntu touch? What's the default browser?
<popey> no
<Sebsebsebb> So thought it was something else being delivered
<popey> oxide, based on chromium frameworks
<bashrc_> aha
<popey> technically firefox could run under xmir I guess
<popey> but that's quite a hefty thing to be running
<Sebsebsebb> Still mot re booting
<bigcalm> MOT! That's what I needed to book!
<popey> Sebsebsebb: what state is it in right now?
<Sebsebsebb> Volumme up down and power buttons nothing
<popey> just hold power button for a long time
<popey> thats all
<popey> until things light up
<Sebsebsebb> Spinning Ubuntu logo in centre  of black screen
<diddledan> that sounds like progress
<Sebsebsebb> Basically it went from fully working to that
<daftykins> yay phones
<Sebsebsebb> I'll set up oroperly on wifi and with sim in it to when I get working again do an os update to if there is one
<daftykins> zoinks, Scoob - i just saw an alpaca turn into zmoylan-pi
<bashrc_> bad flash memory?
<Sebsebsebb> Was doing a first look around
<popey> Sebsebsebb: ok, leave it alone
<popey> while the spinning logo does its thing
<Sebsebsebb> Well it's stuck on thT
<Sebsebsebb> And that's the issue
<popey> how long has it been on that since you booted it up just now?
<Sebsebsebb> Since it crashed yeah
<popey> Finding this difficult to debug with short answers like that.
<popey> Did you reboot the phone Y/N ?
<Sebsebsebb> Half an hour or something now
<popey> Did you reboot it since you started talking to us? (Y/N) ?
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: ^
<Sebsebsebb> since originally havering on it's been re booted but that was the set up I was going to put a sim in and then decided to do that later so completed set up and took a look around the os but I think it may have been turned on again or re booted after originally setting up but u don't remember
<popey> Did you reboot it since you started talking to us (Y/N) ?
<Sebsebsebb> No
<popey> Reboot it.
<popey> Hold down the power button for longer than you think you need to.
<Sebsebsebb> Rebooting doesn't so
<popey> wat?
<Sebsebsebb> Work when I try to
<popey> hold the power button for longer
<Sebsebsebb> Oh ok works to re boot this time
<popey> There we go.
<Sebsebsebb> It really wasn't before though
<popey> Well it is now, which is super.
<popey> leave it, and after a couple of mins you should get the welcome thing.
<Sebsebsebb> Yeah back in it now
<popey> \o/
<popey> suh-weet
<Sebsebsebb> So where's the App Store hidden away
<Sebsebsebb> It crashed when I was trying to find it before
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: scroll down the bottom of the apps scope
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Does anyone know if anyones doing anything in manchester for the Document freedom day?
<Sebsebsebb> Yeah the apps scope where's that
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: it's the one with the apps
<Sebsebsebb> Network
<Sebsebsebb> Settings etc
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: no scroll from the middle to the right 3 time and you'll be on the apps scope
<Sebsebsebb> Left panell browser etc but I see no app scope
<popey> it has "Apps" at the top
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: the scope is the main screen unless you opened an app
<popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-03-23-153356.png
<popey> looks like that
<popey> you may need to swipe left or right to find it
<daftykins> ChloeWolfieGirl: i presume you spotted the map on https://documentfreedom.org/ ?
<daftykins> that at least suggests nothing
<daftykins> perhaps convo could be lurking on some mailing list somewhere :D
<ChloeWolfieGirl> daftykins, aww thats ashame...
<daftykins> i don't have a clue of the event myself, had to look up what it was - so i'm by no means useful
<Sebsebsebb> Main screen is with the date and time plus it says no data sources on the circle as expected really since currently not on the wifi and no sim in to
<Sebsebsebb> And then sure on the left is the panel or whatever
<Sebsebsebb> unity thing
<popey> you need to get on the wifi :)
<popey> launcher
<popey> did you not get a manual with this thing? :)
<popey> https://static-bqreaders.s3.amazonaws.com/file/Ubuntu-Aquaris_E4_5/Manual_Aquaris_E4.5_ubuntu_EN.pdf
<ChloeWolfieGirl> daftykins, Yeah I don't know much either, I was just like, its on wednesday,  it'd be a fun event to go to and it'd be cool to meet nerdy people! :P
<Sebsebsebb> I was thinking it may not be showing certain things since not on net
<popey> yeah, it really needs a wifi connection.. pull down the network indicator and connect to wifi
<Sebsebsebb> What they sent with it paperwise with it was a joke and no documentation really
<Sebsebsebb> Yeah I know it needs net really, but I thought without that it would say AppStore or something like that anyway, but ok now I know it doesn't
<popey> it does
<popey> at the bottom of the app scope
<foobarry> watched my first film on chromcast via google play yesterday
<foobarry> experienced left a bit to be desired
<popey> Sebsebsebb: it's quite a large button http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-03-23-154754.png
<foobarry> next time i'll try from my tablet. the laptop lost chromecast controls
<foobarry> nipped out of the room and couldn't pause it
<shauno> gosh that's .. orange
<daftykins> and... long?
<Sebsebsebb> I get the today scope and that's about it
<popey> Sebsebsebb: swipe left and right
<diddledan> shauno, daftykins : like an umpa lumpa's thingy?
<Sebsebsebb> Gallery and camera and such to
<popey> Sebsebsebb: finger in middle of screen, swipe sideways
<popey> Sebsebsebb: not from edge, in the middle
<shauno> diddledan: this is my stern face.
<diddledan> shauno: you need to work on that
<daftykins> i best go return this government iPad at last, since they've decided they can sort it after all
<daftykins> i wonder if they'll send down the poor unknowing trainee again :D
<Sebsebsebb> Ok got the app scope up
<Sebsebsebb> Although by doing something else
<Sebsebsebb> Anyway going to set this phone up properly and start using it properly, although something I am a bit hmm to at the moment but probably isn't that bad actually is having to use a sim lock key, since not had to do that with previous phones and I haven't looked at the key properly yet
<popey> you don't have to use a sim lock
<Sebsebsebb> Oh?
<ali1234> you used to have to, when it was like 2 weeks old
<ali1234> apparently it didn't even occur to the designers that there are people who don't lock their phones
<ali1234> then a bunch of people complained and it was fixed, presumably
<diddledan> there's a difference between lockscreen and simlock, also
<ali1234> yes
<Sebsebsebb> No I mean the little key they sent with the phone for the sim slots
<diddledan> it sounded like you were referring to the lock screen
<diddledan> eh? that's just a pokey stick that you shove in the hole
<diddledan> as you push the simtray will eject
<popey> yeah, thats just to get the sim out
<popey> see, now 3 definitions of sim lock :)
<Sebsebsebb> Ohok
<ali1234> so basically a paper clip?
<diddledan> ali1234: yes
<popey> yeah
<popey> i keep one on my keyring
 * diddledan pokey popey 
<ali1234> i had to open one of those magnetic dvd security locks for my dad yesterday
<ali1234> dunno what he's been up to lol
<Sebsebsebb> I hadn't taken it out of its packagring and I got on some bq guide earlier on the site that mentioned using it
<zmoylan-pi> i always carry a paperclip in my wallet. i learned from macguyver... :-) http://todaymade.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/macgyver-multitool.jpg
<diddledan> I never understood how a paperclip turns into a nuclear bomb
<zmoylan-pi> ah for that you need the jar of vaseline and a pair of socks as well
<awilkins> My favourite was always the thing he did in the first episode
<diddledan> I hadn't heard of mcguyver until after stargate
<awilkins> Plugged a leak in a vat of acid with a few bars of chocolate
<zmoylan-pi> they mention it one of the first episodes :-)
<awilkins> Using the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poDBrGIyTEk
<awilkins> reaction
<awilkins> Interesting stuff happens at 37 seconds
<diddledan> there's the scene in one ep where sam and jack are stuck in the antarctic because of a power surge in the matter stream bumping them to the second gate where sam exclaims to jack that he should just be able to "mguyver a way out"
<diddledan> spelign
<zmoylan-pi> though my favourite moment is when carter explains about blowing up a star and mentions arthur c. clarke
<Sebsebsebb> I need someone cool to phone from my Ubuntu phone for later, so can I have your number popey no don't worry I was joking
<popey> my number is widely available
<popey> it's at the bottom of every email
<davmor2> mad fool ;)
<Sebsebsebb> Ah silly IPad auto correct
<Sebsebsebb> Oh actually came out ok
<ali1234> awilkins: we had to evacuate the science block when our teacher did that demo. he was like "oh yeah now i remember why we never do this demo any more"
<awilkins> Was lucky enough to go to school at a time when they were still up for mad dangerous science practicals
<awilkins> Have a small scar on my hand to remind me of the importance of safe handling of molten sulphur
<Sebsebsebb> I got one since got from a shop abroad for quite a lot cheaper thank price
<ali1234> funny thing was we had perfectly functional fume hoods in every classroom, but never once used them
<zmoylan-pi> we didn't wear out our fume hoods either :-)
<awilkins> Only had to leave the class once when we were synthesising esters
<ChloeWolfieGirl> popey why? dont you get alot of spam from people?
<awilkins> I hate esters
<awilkins> They make me cough something rotten. Pear drops.
<Sebsebsebb> by phone is microsim I think so I'll have to take out of enclosure
<Sebsebsebb> This phone is different from other ones I got,so how do I actually put the sim in it
<popey> ChloeWolfieGirl: none
<popey> ChloeWolfieGirl: I have had the same phone number for 17 years or so
<Sebsebsebb> Or do I just unlock the slot looks like it
<ChloeWolfieGirl> popey thats fairly amazing.
<popey> Sebsebsebb: there is no lock
<popey> Sebsebsebb: it's just a hole, poke the thing in the hole
<popey> and the sim comes out
<popey> the sim tray that is
<popey> in fact there's a picture on the front of the phone, in plastic, stuck on, which shows how to do it
<Sebsebsebb> There's something down the left
<popey> yes, two sim slots on left
<popey> microsd slot on top
<popey> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-r8ToNynvPK8/VOhTyTrCQAI/AAAAAAAAG90/kh_AKh67PvY/s1600/aquaris-e45-guide-01.png
<popey> 7 is two sims, 1 is microSD slot
<popey> it's really quite common to have sim trays in phones
<Sebsebsebb> The sim trays aren't just holes though
<diddledan> no, they're trays
<Sebsebsebb> How to get the tray out
<diddledan> poke the pokey thing in the hole
<Sebsebsebb> Ok
<popey> 16:28 < popey> Sebsebsebb: it's just a hole, poke the thing in the hole
<diddledan> jeez, louise :-p
<popey> as I already said
<popey> this is not hard dude
<Sebsebsebb> Yeah I was thinking I needed to use that I'll get it out of its packaging
<shauno> it's an interesting peek at 'onboarding' though.  I think things magically become more complicated when people expect them to be complicated
<popey> you probably threw away the crucial piece of documentation :)
<popey> it is shauno
<popey> its funny seeing pictures people share
<popey> seen quite a few pics of the terminal :)
<popey> like one where it's running perl :)
<Sebsebsebb> No I got everything that came with although I don't tend to read diagrams that well
<popey> ok
<Sebsebsebb> Or maps hmm
<popey> everyone is indeed different
<Sebsebsebb> Yep true even identical twins
<foobarry> phone spam isn't very directed
<foobarry> because you know the numbers that are used for mobiles you can just spam blocks of them
 * diddledan digs through email to find popey's phone number for future midnight phonecalls
<zmoylan-pi> nah, 0300 is when person is sleeping the deepest
<zmoylan-pi> :-)
<foobarry> which is when my son wakes me
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you have met me, right?
<Sebsebsebb> Heh at diddle fan
<shauno> I was going to say, it's difficult to presume sleeping times in here
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: when was the last time I was aleep at 3am?!
<zmoylan-pi> i've insomnia, i wouldn't remember if i had diddledan :-/
<Sebsebsebb> Man not fan
<diddledan> Sebsebsebb: keep going, there's a D there somewhere
<foobarry> tab completion ftw
<Sebsebsebb> Uh this tablet dorsnt have tab and the auto correction sucks big time
<Sebsebsebb> For text
<Sebsebsebb> On it
<Sebsebsebb>  New computer ftw well I got a nice discount that I'll use later this year on one
<mapps> yay
<mapps> all i can eat chinese tonight
<shauno> 'can' and 'should' aren't always the same thing ;)
<mapps> all i can force down my neck
<mapps> heh
<zmoylan-pi> in that case remember to chew the chicken balls...
<mapps> ;D
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnpTcrtsN3U
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: do chickens have...
<zmoylan-pi> maybe it's an irish thing but every chinese takeaway in ireland has chicken balls which are lumps of chicken covered in batter.  not like mcnuggets or burger kings equivalent but lumps of proper chicken
<elfy> I think it's generic - same things here
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: do chickens have...
<mapps> i can see myself being sick
<mapps> lol
<diddledan> mapps: out of body experience?
<mapps> from all the MSG riddled chinese food
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> remind me to never get involved with my government's IT department again.
<daftykins> I've never seen such an uncanny ability to grasp the wrong end of the stick at every stage of discourse. =|
<diddledan> yey, sticky discourse!
<davmor2> daftykins: ah I see your issue there, you went to the government Idiots Training department, next door along is Information and Technology ;)
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i went to give this iPad back and asked for a receipt to prove that i had done, seemed totally simple enough to me
<daftykins> but this guy decided to get really shirty and claim i was unjustly trying to hold onto it
<diddledan> eh?
<diddledan> that truly is a weird end to grasp
<daftykins> i only wanted a scrap of paper with a signature on XD
<diddledan> I'm not sure that end was even readily available for grasping
<daftykins> he then threatened to get the boss of the boss of the person i was returning it on behalf of
<daftykins> at one point i seriously had to double take what i was being told
<daftykins> "wat"
<intrbiz> I recall when working at the council, I had to sign my life away to get the company credit card (to purchase some RAM), didn't have to sign it back in :(
<davmor2> daftykins: there's your problem you wanted them to put their name on paper, but that means it's their fault, they can't do that :)
<diddledan> you for the t at the beginning of "wat"
<diddledan> forgot**
 * daftykins chuckles
<Myrtti> none of the computers I've got my hands on can play Cities: Skylines ;______________;
<diddledan> aww :-(
<MooDoo> evening all
<Myrtti> totting up a gaming pc...
<davmor2> Myrtti: see how good they are to protect you from that ;)
<Myrtti> well, last time this happened we bought a mac mini.
<Myrtti> 'unfortunately' mac minis won't do this time.
<daftykins> a mac mini would be even less capable than most laptops at running a game?
<ali1234> some people just never learn
<Myrtti> (last time was in uuueerr... I think 2009)
<Myrtti> or 2010
<Myrtti> and the game then was Sims 3
<daftykins> so not even a worthy title :(
<Myrtti> oi, I liked it
<Myrtti> I don't game much as you can guess
<daftykins> :D
<davmor2> Myrtti: you know when you say "Games" :D
<Myrtti> ever since I got over my Minecraft addiction consoles have been enough.
<daftykins> and yet Minecraft is on consoles too :O
<Myrtti> Assassin's Creed and Loco Roco
<daftykins> one mate does keep trying to convince me to buy it, but Â£15 for that? not a chance
<Myrtti> sure, wasn't then though
<daftykins> yeah, i understand times change
<shauno> Myrtti: c:s is a fine excuse for a new machine :)
<mapps> chinese time
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> 50/50 i wont be able to move
<mapps> heh
<Myrtti> we've been thinking of a new mac mini for a while but this I think broke the camels back. Kinda sad that the mac is probably going. It was a nice media pc.
<daftykins> Myrtti: going as in faulty?
<Myrtti> daftykins: it's just showing it's age by now, and won't run the game :-|
<daftykins> oh right trying to run a game on there, is it one that's been abandoned of OS X updates?
<Myrtti> no idea, haven't paid that much attention to it
<daftykins> ah, i would think OS updating is a good first step regardless of many things
<shauno> the biggest problem tends to be that it (game) doesn't support intel gpus, on any platform
<daftykins> yarr
<shauno> which kinda rules out the current minis too, unfortunately
<Myrtti> exactly
<Myrtti> otherwise it would've been a new mac mini
<AM_> i created a swap file but i want it to be permanent
<AM_> how can i do
<popey> AM_: http://askubuntu.com/questions/33697/how-do-i-add-a-swap-partition-after-system-installation
<AM_> i add a new line?
<elfy> to fstab - yes
<elfy> not sure if swap file would be same as partition
<elfy> I'd assume so though
<AM_> so i type sudo nano /etc/fstab
<AM_> and add a new line with UUID=735b3be3-779c-4d21-a944-b033225f3ab4 none   swap    sw      0       0
<diddledan> if that is the correct uuid for your partition, then yes
<popey> (it isn't)
<AM_> it isnt?
<popey> its copy pasted from the page
<diddledan> then no
<popey> the big long string is unique to your partition
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/126018/adding-a-new-swap-file-how-to-edit-fstab-to-enable-swap-after-reboot is probably better, sorry
<AM_> confused
<daftykins> a UUID is unique to your computer :)
<daftykins> to your disk partitions, to be more exact
<popey> but you said you made a swap _file_ not a partition
<popey> hence me linking to the correct one this time
<daftykins> i wondered but stayed quiet 8D
<diddledan> I wandered.. lonely as a cloud
<AM_> i copy all the sudo into terminal?
<elfy> AM_: when you made the swap file - what did you call it and where did you put it
<diddledan> might be worth reading the instructions rather than grepping for sudo and blindly running it verbatim, but iANAL
<AM_> i followed instructions from a website
<diddledan> why does everyone and his dog insist on posting endless messages to bug #1268257
<lubotu3> bug 1268257 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-331-updates (Ubuntu) "nvidia-331-updates 331.38-0ubuntu3: nvidia-331-updates kernel module failed to build, with only error: "objdump: '... .tmp_nv.o': No such file"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268257
<diddledan> ?!
<diddledan> there's clear instructions at the top to not do that
<AM_> me?
<elfy> diddledan: it's so it takes an age to load
<popey> AM_: no, diddledan is babbling
<popey> AM_: what instructions did you follow?
<AM_> this link
<AM_> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-add-swap-on-ubuntu-14-04
<elfy> that tells you how to make it permanent ...
<popey> indeed, in the section marked "Make the Swap File Permanent"
<diddledan> why would they put it there of all places?!
<diddledan> :-p
 * diddledan hides
<AM_> did i make the swap permanent afterall?
<elfy> if you did that - then yes
<AM_> how do i test it to make sure
<popey> reboot, run swapon -s, and see if it shows up
<diddledan> it'll tell you if you run `free` whether you've got swap, too
<AM__> it didnt work
<diddledan> eh?
<AM__> swap isnt available
<elfy> did you actually check fstab?
<AM__> eh.... no? How do i do that ^^
<elfy> cat /etc/fstab
<diddledan> meow :-p
<elfy> for sure - one's called mouse the other ratchet
<AM__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10663747/
<elfy> ummm - why you adding a swapfile when you've got  cryptswap ?
<diddledan> cryptswap?!
<AM__> i dont know... what is a cryptswap
<diddledan> swap that's encrypted
<AM__> i didnt know i had one
<popey> huh. might have to book 14th april off work
<AM__> thats a day before my birthday
<popey> GTA 5 PC release date
<popey> (currently)
<daftykins> popey: maybe the day after too, once the game downloads :D
<popey> in theory it'll pre-download
<elfy> gah - snorted tea ... thanks daftykins
<daftykins> elfy: sorry :D
<diddledan> elfy: snorting tea sounds like it should be illegal
<elfy> :p
<AM__> so eh, how do i make a swap last until my computer either dies or gets thrown away?
<popey> you already have swap
<popey> what's the output of "swapon -s" ?
<AM__> Filename				Type		Size	Used	Priority
<popey> what if you "sudo swapon -a" ?
<AM__> swapon: /dev/mapper/cryptswap1: stat failed: No such file or directory
<popey> well. interesting
<popey> whats the full story?
<popey> did you re-install or install a different distro or something?
<AM__> i reinstalled ubuntu
<popey> can you pastebin the output of "mount" please?
<AM__> do i type mount in terminal
<AM__> doesnt look good
<AM__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10663864/
<popey> ok.
<popey> looks fine, and confirms you have encrypted home
<AM__> confirmed
<popey> probably something prevented swap from mounting
<popey> if you run "dmesg | grep swap" do you get something like "could not mount /dev/mapper/cryptswap1"
<AM__> i get nothing
<popey> hm
<popey> can you "sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda" and pastebin?
<AM__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10663889/
<popey> thats quite a few partitions you have there
<popey> AM__: what happens if you "sudo swapon /dev/sda1" ?
<popey> do you have multiple different distros installed?
<AM__> no
<popey> ok
<AM__> did i mess up
<popey> 21:09 < popey> AM__: what happens if you "sudo swapon /dev/sda1" ?
<elfy> AM__:  when you boot does it ask for encryption password? did you used to have an encrypted install and have reinstalled since?
<AM__> swapon: /dev/sda1: read swap header failed: Invalid argument
<popey> elfy: it's not an encrypted install
<elfy> no - but was there one previously and it's just seeing the old encrytped swap - and not made one for the new install
<popey> no
<bashrc> will 15.04 ship with unity 8 ?
<popey> no
<popey> elfy: its encrypted home, not full disk encryption
<bashrc> ah ok, but it will have systemd?
<popey> yes
<AM__> i did tick that box
<elfy> mmm okey doke
<popey> AM__: so, it sounds like your swap is broken, somehow
<AM__> can it be fixed?
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/341979/what-to-do-about-the-disk-drive-for-dev-mapper-cryptswap1-is-not-ready-yet-or looks good
<AM__> do i follow the steps?
<popey> the ones in the first answer look sane
<popey> not tried myself
<AM__> should i try?
<popey> I would
<AM__> how do i save a nano again
<popey> control x
<AM__> thank you
<diddledan> that nvidia bug continues to get traffic - another 6 arrived while I was eating food. now someone is suggesting that it's a good idea to download a new kernel from kernel.org and installing the nvidia binary drivers direct from nvidia.com
<directhex> linux is plagued by well-meaning noobs giving terrible advice
<diddledan> shauno: ansi colouring in osx terminal/iterm. when combined with sudo. how?
<diddledan> directhex: aye, but this particular bug seems to be attracting a lot of "still doesn't work" comments
<diddledan> IIRC there's over 600 subscribers and most of us are likely to get notified for every message, of which there seem to be an endless supply
 * brobostigon wonders if poking a certain networks mast admins, will help things.
<diddledan> brobostigon: ?
<shauno> diddledan: que?
<brobostigon> diddledan: three.
<diddledan> shauno: colours work great in my terminal until I sudo
<diddledan> shauno: while I'm root I get plain boring grey
<shauno> what's $CLICOLOR set to?
<diddledan> this is particularly annoying because I have a script which outputs ansi-colors liberally and I see none of them
<diddledan> shauno: blank
<shauno> hm
<m0nkey_> KHURR-CHING!
<diddledan> it wouldn't be an issue if I ran the script under my own user but because it needs access to a root-only file I need to sudo
<m0nkey_> Tax rebate time :D
<diddledan> or rather the script sudos itself
<shauno> hm.  well, it works here, so I'm going to assume you've broke something, and recommend you unbroke it :)
<diddledan> hmm, maybe it's not sudo that's the issue. the colors are added by sedding after the sudo has tailed the file
<diddledan> it's just plain bash that's broke then :-p
<diddledan> splefitically this is the line that does the business: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10664356/
<brobostigon> directhex: that is why, i wont give my mum and dad, the root password to their won computer, incase they read something, and think they are doing "the right thing2 which they dont udnerstand, but think they do, and ireeperably break what they really dont understand.
<shauno> http://cl.ly/image/2N2X0D2L2w2Z  makes pretties here?
<diddledan> the ansi codes should already be embedded in the file $LOGFILE
<diddledan> although, let me check on that
<diddledan> ooh purdy
<diddledan> ok, maybe I'm not outputting the codes in the first place
<diddledan> hmm
<shauno> I thought you said they worked fine under your user though?
<diddledan> the script sudo's and I don't get any other colors under root so I assumed
<diddledan> e.g. ls is colorless
<shauno> force ls with CLICOLOR=1 ls  ?
<shauno> (same as in my screenshot.  just to confirm you would see them if they are created.  if that works, then your problem is .. yours :)
<diddledan> yeah that works
<diddledan> what font is that anywho?
<shauno> 'camingocode' apparently.  I have no idea anymore.  my iterm config is older than my laptop
<diddledan> camingocode. weird name.
<ali1234> directhex: it's also filled with people who aren't noobs and should know better who give terrible advice
<ali1234> like the devs i read about today, telling people that signed debs are pointless
<diddledan> http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/jan-fromm/camingo-code/
<diddledan> ali1234: that's nuts
<diddledan> I wonder whether Microsoft's scriptable terminal really does what it says on the tin. I'm referring to PowersHell
<diddledan> worse is that often Microsoft suggest that the entire corporate entity is beind such an initiative with phrases such as "Microsoft PowersHell"
<diddledan> in related question: how do I change my powershell font to something other than the three in the preferences pane?
<diddledan> stabby screwdriver is stabby
<diddledan> owie!
<diddledan> don't think I broke skin, but still ouch
<zmoylan-pi> every time i see someone in a linux channel talk about trying powershell it ends up like this... powershell seems to work ok... 1 week later... oh flip, the horror of powershell...
<diddledan> I'm still on the "it's different, but I might figure it out enough to be productive"
<diddledan> finding files is weird when you're used to `find` on linux
<diddledan> methinks I need to reboot - this build of win10 is unstable
<diddledan> through the day it gradually gets more hangy
<diddledan> previous build was solid though
<diddledan> prolly because I switched-on the fast delivery ring :-p
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-24
<daftykins> http://1drv.ms/1N8C0jW
<daftykins> tee-hee, overtaking your mate in the last seconds is always good fun
<daftykins> https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/mvLHUpOvXuQAhIhY
<daftykins> good old ifixit having some fun
<mappps> hm
<mapps> well
<mapps> first time in 6 months spoke some russian
<mapps> :)
<mapps> guy at casino was Ukranian (very similar)
<diddledan> morning
<elfy> morning
<Myrtti> boo. my gingerbread coffee syrup run out... time of day
<popey> lulz https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1202858
<lubotu3> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1202858 in squid "restarting squid results in deleting all files in hard-drive (rm -rf /*)" [Urgent,On_qa]
<popey> steam bug all over again
<Myrtti> well, to their benefit it was in RC
<Myrtti> or is
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> what's the betting they're doing a `rm -rf $foo/*` where $foo isn't assigned
<popey> yeah
<diplo> hah diddledan
<diplo> That was my first ever huge breakage in IT
<diddledan> morning diplo
<diplo> Sorry just reading up :D
<diddledan> :-)
<diplo> rm -rf $foo/
<diplo> :)
<diddledan> yeah it's a nasty one
<diplo> I've been very careful since :D
<TwistedLucidity> I'd like to find out a bit more about Ubuntu Phone. What apps are availabe, does it support WebDAV, CalDAV and CardDAV (either native or via an app) and so on.
<TwistedLucidity> I've found this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps
<TwistedLucidity> but there's not much information.
<TwistedLucidity> Or I completely failed to find it.
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate Covered Raisins Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<TwistedLucidity> Seems CalDAV support is absent...shame. Although being missing is better than Android's "not working in unexpected and very annoying ways" :-)
<DJones> Would somebody mind hilighting me, just finished rebuilding/cleaning my irssi config & want to check the hilight window works
<diplo> DJones: well hello!
<DJones> Thanks, still works
<diplo> :P
<TwistedLucidity> Still...they can't do everything at once. Here's hoping that full DAV support lands in time for the octocore.
 * TwistedLucidity crosses fingers
<diplo> https://cosmicyes.wordpress.com/2015/02/26/syncing-addressbook-of-ubuntuphone-using-syncevolution/
<diplo> TwistedLucidity:  ?
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Oddly enough, just reading that.
<diplo> hack atm, well thats address books
<diplo> :D
<TwistedLucidity> Still looks *A LOT* easier than the nightmare of getting it working on Android
<diplo> I was about to try it on android :) not worth it then
<diplo> I was going to purchase a caldav app
<TwistedLucidity> Certainly not on any HTC device.
<TwistedLucidity> Let me get a link.....
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: http://nlug.ml1.co.uk/2014/06/android-htc-and-carddav-contacts/4729
<diplo> Well that sucks
<czajkowski> aloha
<diplo> I've not got any HTC devices anymore, 2 Samsungs in varying dieingness and currently a LG g2 that I'm about to root
<diplo> So may have a go
<bashrc_> morning peeps
<TwistedLucidity> CalDAV works as well (using apps from the same dev) but there's no way to set a default calendar, so you contstantly have to tell the phone which one to use when entering a new event.
<TwistedLucidity> I guess the assumption is that everyone uses Google and Facebook and us freedom-loving lepers are left out in the cold.
<diddledan> ello bashrc_ , czajkowski
<davmor2> JamesTait: just be careful eating them when you have rabbits :D
<diplo> I do find it odd that no syncing apart from Google is available with touch
<diplo> Considering the audience :)
<JamesTait> Or chinchillas, davmor2. ;)
<diddledan> choccy raisens are awesome!
<diddledan> spelign?
<diddledan> raisins
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/apps
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Ta! That's exactly the thing I was looking for. Don't know why I couldn't find it with "ubuntu phone apps"
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey bro
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<MooDoo> interesting though
<knightwise> MooDoo: what is ?
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: it's not an official store is possibly why
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Explains much. I was trying to working out what kind of codename "bhdouglass" was :-)
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: there will be one it's just that the team that are creating it are also creating the store, so that is the priority you know like being able to make payments and things like that ;)
<MooDoo> knightwise: ah sorry, wrong window lol :D
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: You evil, money-grabbing capitalists! :-D
<MooDoo> knightwise: but if you want an interesting read ie in the same vein as the steam issue https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1202858
<lubotu3> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1202858 in squid "restarting squid results in deleting all files in hard-drive (rm -rf /*)" [Urgent,On_qa]
<davmor2> MooDoo: likely story
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: Yeap that's us, They're also working on things like fat package support so you can install the apps on multiple arches, setting up the snappy store and ........... you get the picture :)
<knightwise> hack once pown many
<TwistedLucidity> lubotu3: dev/testing branch, things happen
<lubotu3> TwistedLucidity: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's somewhat of a bug in squid then right
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: howdo chappie hows life
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> davmor2: tiring. Badminton was a little too much for the 4 of us last night
<bigcalm> davmor2: waiting for my phone to arrive and annoyed that I'm in the company office today and tomorrow. Not knowing if it'll turn up while I'm not at home
<bigcalm> davmor2: are you well?
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahahaha
<davmor2> bigcalm: busy but good thanks
<MooDoo> davmor2: thank goodness i don't use rhel then and squid
<bigcalm> davmor2: if we were to arrange an evening at the Pie Factory, do you think you're more likely to be able to attend?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm going to try and get to the next meeting either way I wouldn't mind seeing the oddfellows is that the new pub then?
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> It's quieter
<bigcalm> That said, same amount of people appear to be in a smaller space
<bigcalm> We don't get to move the tables around
<bigcalm> So it's pot luck if we get a good spot or not
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
<davmor2> bigcalm: more import do they still do pancakes ;)
<bigcalm> It's a nice gastro pub. You should go there some time anyway
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: You wouldn't be running 6.7 anyway
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: goes to show how little you know him ;)
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Well....if they're running a Beta version in production, then they deserve everything they get!
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you wouldn't catch me doi.....oh wait yes you would most of the time infact :P
<TwistedLucidity> I for one am not running beta-code on this here desktop. Honest.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: only my server is running a stable release
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, got the home server on LTS
<knightwise> TwistedLucidity: currently moved the home server over to a raspberry pi :)
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: i don't run it at all any more, moved my servers to ubuntu/debian
<knightwise> Raspbian seems to treat it fairly ok
<knightwise> not that I do a lot on the machine but still.
<zmoylan-pi> in the event of a police raid he can shove the server down his pants... :-P
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Home server runs ownCloud and will also be host a media server. Bit much for a RasPi.
<zmoylan-pi> what about the pi 2?
<MooDoo> i use kvm so that wouldn't run too well on a pi :D
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: I strongly suspect transcoding would murder it
<knightwise> TwistedLucidity: I agree
<knightwise> used to run 1404 lTs on the mac mini
<knightwise> running plex , calibre and two other Linux Vm's with owncloud and stuff
<knightwise> my current server is more of an ssh endpoint , although it handles ttytter, irssi, newsbeuter and the calibre webservice quite nicely
<davmor2> MooDoo: now to get you hooked onto Juju, lxc, docker and maas and my work will be done muhahahahahahaha ;)
<bashrc_> calibre has a web service?
<MooDoo> davmor2: my head is already exploding thanks very much....
<MooDoo> davmor2: if canonical or you of the team you're with need a tea boy, give me a shout ;)
<bashrc_> interesting, although I use OwnCloud for this kind of thing http://manual.calibre-ebook.com/cli/calibre-server.html
<knightwise> setting up a calibre server doesn't even require a Gui
<knightwise> its easy to browse , (even with my kobo ebook reader)
<bashrc_> nice
<knightwise> works like a charm
<davmor2> MooDoo: that would be a lot of travel if you were tea boying my team 1 is in New Zealand :D
<knightwise> you can even add books to your library using a command line commad
<zmoylan-pi> and calibre without it's gui sounds better somehow... :-)
<bashrc_> on the server side
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: sounds geekier I think that is the issue
<davmor2> knightwise: but can you read in w3m?
<diplo> http://blog.slucas.fr/en/oss/calibre-opds-php-server  - knightwise tried this ?
<diplo> Me and a friend use it
<shauno> last time I tried calibre's server, the templates were so retro that I wouldn't be surprised if w3m did work
<shauno> (although I was using it via a reader that supports opds, so it just acts like a slower version of the local library)
<zmoylan-pi> it formatted for bbses? :-)
<knightwise> havent tried cops yet
<knightwise> davmor2: i think you can
<knightwise> but does W3M handle epubs ?
<davmor2> knightwise: no idea I was thinking purely of an all cli experience :D
<davmor2> knightwise: I'm thinking that most geeks have a terminal set to be easy to read for them, so why not let it handle the epub and grabbing it too :)
<knightwise> I know it works pretty sweet on  my kobo !
<davmor2> knightwise: it would possibly work nicely in beru too
<zmoylan-pi> i have to admit been seriosuly impressed with my cheap kobo.  great battery life and very good with pdfs which a lot of e-ink readers aren't
<knightwise> Yep , i've had a sony PRS 505 for AGES and was doubting what the best formfactor would be
<knightwise> I went with the smaller kobo but am very satisfied
<zmoylan-pi> i got one as they were clearing them out of argos for â¬35 a few years back
<zmoylan-pi> 5" jobbie
<knightwise> indeed
<knightwise> http://leeet.net/foto/sony/en_505/05/en_sony_rev_502.jpg
<knightwise> This was mine :) Bought in in Hull about 6 years ago i think$
<davmor2> knightwise, zmoylan-pi: https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/app/com.ubuntu.developer.rschroll.beru
<knightwise> Beru ?
<knightwise> as in "aunt beru" ?
<zmoylan-pi> an epub reader for ubuntu touch.  not bad
<knightwise> kinda 'toasty" title for an app :)
<knightwise>  nope not bad indeed
 * knightwise should get one of those ubuntu phones
<knightwise> ps : i'm using google inbox on the laptop right now
<knightwise> pretty clean interface!
<zmoylan-pi> i'd be more interested in ubuntu tablet as i use dumbphones these days
<zmoylan-pi> and getting increasingly annoyed with android
<bashrc_> is there a keepass app?
<davmor2> popey: by the way do you have the issue on your hudl2 of the time being wrong or is it just me :)  NTP seems to be setting the Time about 5 hours behind
<diplo> bashrc_: Not that I've seen yet
<awilkins> bashrc_ I use Password Safe which has an app
<awilkins> Password Safe + Dropbox
<knightwise> hbv
<bashrc_> ok. I mainly use keepass, because it runs on everything
<foobarry> davmor2: are you on the latest update?
<awilkins> Password Safe / Pasaffe / Password Safe for Android
<foobarry> also, timezone?
<zmoylan-pi> i did have that problem with my samsung as it got old.  the clock would stop updating and it would fall behind. a reset would sort it for a few weeks
<davmor2> foobarry: as far as I know yes it doesn't find any new ones
<diplo> I think I jumped in there in the wrong place, Android or Touch bashrc_ ?
<diplo> I use keepass on android
<davmor2> diplo, bashrc: on touch there is lastpass app
<diplo> Well 'app' is a bit strong :D
<bashrc_> lastpass looks nonfree anyway
<knightwise> Dalek Mindfulness tape : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e59guruVL4o&t=28
<knightwise> * in tears *
<zmoylan-pi> that is so been tweeted...
<Myrtti> oof. The most expensive Moomin mug sold for 5000â¬
 * Myrtti pets her collection
<diddledan> yeesh
<Myrtti> http://hbl.fi/nyheter/2015-03-23/739186/5-000-euro-har-ar-dyraste-muminmuggen
<zmoylan-pi> someone takes their moomin seriously
<zmoylan-pi> i used to like the cartoon on utv in 80s
<zmoylan-pi> but preferred moschops :-)
<Myrtti> I took it seriously enough to have Moomin caketoppers, Moomin plushies and Moomin candies and cookies but I don't plan to go quite so far as pay silly money for a Moomin mug...
<daftykins> phew - said everyone :)
<Myrtti> or a lamp, they are expensive as well
<Myrtti> would have been cool though http://shop.moomin.com/collections/all/products/the-moomintroll-light-small
 * davmor2 bets Myrtti does at some point, when she wins the lottery and is rich and shameless ;)
<zmoylan-pi> she'll have a moomin house in the moomin garden just for moominorabilia :-)
<Myrtti> I think the husband would protest quite loudly
<zmoylan-pi> you'd just turn up the moomin stereo :-P
<daftykins> ouch Â£650 gas bill for the last quarter :(
<zmoylan-pi> what were you doing, burning the stuff?!
<daftykins> ;]
<diplo> 650!!!!! for 3 months!!!!!
<daftykins> yip
<diplo> Lucky if mine is Â£100 :)
<Myrtti> wallpaper would be nice... https://www.moomin.com/en/blog/moomin-wallpapers-design-finland/
<Myrtti> ahem.
<daftykins> drafty 16th century place
<zmoylan-pi> â¬80 every 2 months for leccy on average but last bill was â¬100 due to heating for winter
<daftykins> diplo: you mean unlucky if it reaches Â£100?
<diplo> I'd move daftykins :D
<zmoylan-pi> he's keeping an eye out for unrennovated castle... :-D
<daftykins> ;) nah i think i did get a bit too comfortable switching it on this year
<diplo> I think I spend about Â£70/mnth combined
<Seeker`> Myrtti: you used to saying "the husband" yet? :P
<diddledan> Seeker`: one orften speak of one's husband
<shauno> I assume he lost his name in some terrible industrial accident?
<Myrtti> Seeker`: I've called him the husband a few times even before we got married... it's more natural than whatever I've referred him as before... apart from dsample
<davmor2> daftykins: what's this teach you about Gas propelled turbines they are not economical at all ;)
<daftykins> my evil lair will never be complete!
<zmoylan-pi> that's why you use an extinct volcano as most of the mood setting is done for you :-)
<zmoylan-pi> or there used to be castlesforsales.com which had excellent potential for evil overlords in training
<daftykins> it's just too tough to get good, honest henchpersons these days :(
<daftykins> (P.C. gone mad)
<zmoylan-pi> have you tried offering them a t-shirt with their blood group printed on it? :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: sounds like daftykins is already heating a castle :D
<shauno> only because you avoid reddit :)  the evil and gullible are plentiful :)
<diddledan> drupal is a slog
<zmoylan-pi> there are other content management systems if you don't like it...
<diddledan> it's not a case of whether I like it - it's been dictated
<diddledan> dictated/mandated
<daftykins> a mates setting up a site for his girlfriends new biz, but he doesn't really do any web admin or what not - i was a bit concerned he'll end up backing himself into a corner
<zmoylan-pi> in that case moan on ;-)
<daftykins> compared to say, a simple wordpress + paid for theme approach
<diddledan> still, I got my coloured logs sorted, which is nice
<daftykins> christmas log?
<diddledan> lurve those!
<bashrc_> yule log
<diddledan> they're as good as fudgecake
<diddledan> cross your fingers!
 * diddledan closes his eyes and prods the "go" button
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> it no work
<daftykins> ;]
<diddledan> no error message neither
<diddledan> that is odd
<diddledan> aah the logfile got rotated underneath my viewer
<DJones> diddledan: Typical linux then, no error message means it worked sucessfuly doesn't it
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> there's a reason to hate drupal. it's the evil nested array thing it has going-on
<shauno> I'm not sure I've seen a CMS that isn't evil incarnate.  seems to be the nature of the beast
<diddledan> I can drive wordpress. drupal just has me going "huh?"
<diddledan> like it won't let me output a field because it says that the thing it gave me isn't the thing it needs
<diddledan> I have no idea how to get it the thing it says it needs
<daftykins> if you're having fun with it, i definitely feel justified in telling that mate he should just buy a wordpress theme and not faff too much :P
<shauno> ebay :)
<diddledan> Exception: Missing bundle property on entity of type taxonomy_term.
<diplo> daftykins: For selling stuff? ( Friends girlfriend thing )
<daftykins> diplo: nah just company awareness
<diplo> Ah right, defo go for asimple site and theme then yeah I'd agree
<diplo> Sod all maintenance
<diddledan> I've got to the point where I'm dumping all the things via debug
<daftykins> diplo: :D i was trying to explain to him that although i'm sure it's fun for him to learn and muck about with things, he won't enjoy dealing with the proverbial hitting the fan if what he does brings in some insecurity
<daftykins> looks like i might be winning on swaying them over to google apps instead of basic IMAP too, phew
<diplo> Good work! :) I find it hard as well
<daftykins> think he said they're with something called hostpapa 0o
<diddledan> ok, I'm confused. I've got an array which I've confirmed has an element with the key I'm requesting yet it's still coming back null
<diddledan> ooooh
<diddledan> nested functions work differently in php to javascript
<diddledan> I was javascript head
<apacheuk> so messing around with the ubuntuphone and so far loving it, except everytime I close the twitter app (swipe it away) and open it again I have to enter my login details again, I have a really long password so its a pain.... anyone any ideas? maybe something I'm doing wrong
<popey> apacheuk: did you sign in to twitter using online accounts? System Settings -> Online accounts.
<apacheuk> yeah
<apacheuk> er... ok scratch that, seems I missed that account :) adding it now
<apacheuk> all ok now
<mapps> superb
<mapps> my phones 'delayed at customs'
<mapps> according to tracking
<popey> awww
<mapps> yep really handy
<mapps> cost Â£45 in postage which was bad enough
<mapps> i didn't think it would cost even half that..had i known i'd have just ordered it to spain;/
<diddledan> it's DONE
<diddledan> can we fix it?!
<diddledan> YES WE CAN!!
<diddledan> so I resorted to manually writing SQL
<diddledan> now to package it up so my boss can have a play in the morning
<mapps> for what
<diddledan> it's a drupal thingy
<diddledan> mapps: ^^
<diddledan> mapps: we're building-out an intranetty thing for a government department
<diddledan> they needed a system status feature that wasn't driven by live updates but controlled by posts in the cms
<diddledan> hopefully my SQL is compatible with SQLServer (they won't use mySQL :-()
<diddledan> that's my "SQL" in the first case
<diddledan> as in my sql-code
<diddledan> confusing to have a server called mySQL when you're also talking about your own SQL code
<intrbiz> ^^ another reason to use PostgreSQL then
<diddledan> lol
<mapps> aha
<mapps> why not
<mapps> mysql is ok
<mapps> what about mariaDB
<diddledan> maria or mysql would be preferable over ms sqlserver
<intrbiz> PostgreSQL would be preferable over Maria, MySQL or MSSQL
<mapps> hm
<czajkowski> it arrived https://plus.google.com/+LauraCzajkowski/posts/SbRPpDcviAj
<mapps> sweet
<mapps> :D
<mapps> what phone were you using before
<czajkowski> samsung 4 zoom
<shauno> your postman keeps some odd hours ;)
<czajkowski> only in the door
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-25
<diddledan> what's the command to monitor network connections?
<daftykins> for what kinda thing?
<daftykins> like netstat?
<diddledan> to monitor the conections as they come and go
<daftykins> hrmm i must not know
<intrbiz> diplo: iftop ?
<jussi> good morning all
<nigelb> morning jussi
<jussi> how are you nigelb?
<nigelb> jussi: still waking up :)
<nigelb> but yay wednesday.
<mapps> raining here
<mapps> booo
<mapps> what a depressing burger i had
<mapps> wish there was more choice for food late at night
<jussi> mapps: its called a kitchen.... :P
<mapps> yea
<mapps> but then washing up
<mapps> ugh
<mapps> and i cant cook well..i make fairly basic stuff
<mapps> reminds me i should go out for a roast dinner sometime
<mapps> #havent had one for years
<diddledan> yawning
 * zmoylan-pi is scratching
<elfy> morning
<knightwise> morning peeps
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> taking elementary linux (the new beta) out for a spin
<knightwise> doenst look that bad at first sight
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> knightwise: i use it every day all day
<knightwise> hey davmor2
<knightwise> foobarry: its pretty good , i put the 12.04 based version on my wifes iMac
<knightwise> she loved it
<foobarry> nice and fast, good workflow with synapse installed
<knightwise> didn"t notice it wasnt osx
<foobarry> do osx still do that nasty global menu thing
<knightwise> yep ,
<foobarry> its an abomination
<knightwise> OSX is starting to become more frustrating to work with as a power user
<knightwise> although I must say , the more I become an expert in the cross platform computing thing the less I notice what OS i'm actually one.
<knightwise> on.
<foobarry> unless its unity
<foobarry> then you definitely notice
<knightwise> Currently running Freya as a VM on top of OSX in fullscreen mode, SSH'd into my Pi for irssi and using Google inbox for mail and chay
<directhex> i can't use osx as a "power user"
<knightwise> to my the actual OS is becoming more and more trivial
<directhex> we hatses it
<bashrc_> I didn't think OSX was designed for power users, but then I've never used it myself
 * zmoylan-pi installs os/2 on knightwise's system just to see the expression on their face... :-)
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: if it has SSH and a browser i'm set
<knightwise> bashrc_: when I do videoproductions and stuff I rely heavily on OSX, there is no way to do stuff like that in Linux or windows
<knightwise> but for all the rest ?
<knightwise> OS irrelevant
<knightwise> I guess I like to go with what is light and looks pretty
<knightwise> hence elementary, Ubuntu Mate and Chromixium as my current VM's of choice
 * zmoylan-pi installs win vista on knightwise's system...
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: I don't mind windows at all , I just wish they had a decent terminal client
<knightwise> Vista is slow .. not my preferred choice , but 10 is pretty nice !
<directhex> i prefer windows to osx
<foobarry> i prefer not having to choose :D
 * zmoylan-pi hands out pitchforks and torches to mob... one each please
<directhex> my work laptop is a macbook. boots ubuntu primarily
<knightwise> I love apple hardware (and the fact you can sell it second hand for a good price)
<zmoylan-pi> their laptops do last an average students time at college...
<knightwise> directhex: I have the 15 inch macbook pro. Damn good machine. Expensive but it is the main investment for my company so ...
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not sure if it's better build or treated better by student as it's a prestige item thing though...
<directhex> 13" - i don't need to carry a surfboard around with me
<zmoylan-pi> you use public transport directhex?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10676264/ this is a dead disk isn't it?
<knightwise> directhex: i also wanted to go with the 13 inch , but the 15 inch has a quad-core I7 , so I need that for final cut pro
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: when i travel internationally
<directhex> model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4558U CPU @ 2.80GHz
<directhex> popey: try swapping the sata cable first, but it might be
<knightwise> directhex: thats a dual core I7
<directhex> oh, true
<directhex> hyparthreads!
<knightwise> if you do final cut pro edits .. DA PowAh is Required
<knightwise> http://www.phc.nl/kennis/phc-tv/ (2 productions I did for a client) ..
<knightwise> its in dutch so you won't understand shit
<popey> usb cable...
<popey> its a sata enclosure
<popey> tried two enclosures
<directhex> popey: well, it might be the usb-sata chip in the enclosure, not the disk itself
<directhex> oh
<directhex> bumpoo
<popey> yeah
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<knightwise> brobostigon: there IS intelligent life on this planet after all
 * zmoylan-pi hums the galaxy song in retort to that
<brobostigon> knightwise: oh yes, :)
<knightwise> i had my doubts there for a moment .. with zmoylan-pi trying to install Vista on my computer and all
<zmoylan-pi> well someone has to be punished so that we'll remember how bad it is :-)
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: i agree
<knightwise> but i'm not going to be a marter :p
<foobarry> martyr?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tolkien Reading Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> shouldn't it be tolkein reading week as all books are huge?
<foobarry> "All 650 MPs will be given an iPad Air 2 and a laptop in the wake of the general election in May."
<foobarry> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/11493656/All-650-MPs-to-receive-iPad-Air-2-and-laptop-post-election.html
<knightwise> talk about self-service
<zmoylan-pi> since they always make deals with ms shouldn't they be punished with windows 8 laptops and winphone tablets? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> windows rt tablets would be ideal for them...
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: that is just pure evil
<zmoylan-pi> well they are government...
<knightwise> who was using elementary again on a daily basis ?
<knightwise> do you notice Chrome likes to freeze up ?
<foobarry> hello
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: it was foobary
 * foobarry waves
 * zmoylan-pi surfs
<foobarry> i have no issues
<foobarry> check adblock is updated
<foobarry> and dns is ok
<foobarry> and RAM is free
<TwistedLucidity> Doens't adblock increase the load?
<foobarry> no,
<foobarry> try visiting the independent web page without adblock and we'll talk
<TwistedLucidity> Seem to recall reports that it increased RAM/CPU usage
<knightwise> ok might be addblock
<davmor2> JamesTait: /me plays the hobbit and LOTR cds to celebrate
<foobarry> hmm this seems bad timing lidl
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: This is what I was thinking of
<TwistedLucidity> https://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/2014/05/14/adblock-pluss-effect-on-firefoxs-memory-usage/
<foobarry> http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-2491.htm?action=showDetail&id=21886
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: yes some affect, but ads on a lot of sites murder your browser
<TwistedLucidity> They murder my eyes, never mind the browser!
<knightwise> nope its not addblock
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/a-45minute-power-nap-can-boost-your-memory-fivefold-study-finds-10128456.html
<TwistedLucidity> When sites have muted/non-flashing adverts that are based solely on the site/page content (i.e. no privacy invasion)...then they'll be let through
<foobarry> smooth scrolling be gone!
<davmor2> foobarry, popey: So if your hudl2 start losing time press vol up + vol down + power till it shuts of and then power it back on, apparently there is a bug where it loses 17minutes an hour but only on certain models, the volume thing just resets the android cache so it fetched the right time again :)
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: And yet USAians will wake up in the middle of the night to answer emails from their mobile so they can be seen as hardworking.
<foobarry> my comment was more about the ads...
<foobarry> small strip of text
<foobarry> and wall of animated ads
<TwistedLucidity> I see no adverts
<TwistedLucidity> Network blocks FTW!
<foobarry> i have a post lunch nap at weekends
<foobarry> its glorious
<TwistedLucidity> OK, I now see *one* dating advert and some ijobs thing. Also spotted a few other ad-related URLs coming down.
 * TwistedLucidity makes note to update blocks
<foobarry> knightwise: also ensure that chrome has exited
<knightwise> checking. might be that too
<foobarry> i change the setting that aloows it to run in background
<foobarry> i hate that they do that
<knightwise> been playing with the new google inbox
<knightwise> must say : I don't dislike it at all
<popey> huh, interesting davmor2, I've not seen that here. Maybe when I dropped mine, I fixed it :)
<TwistedLucidity> "*amazon-adsystem.com" should kill most of them
<TwistedLucidity> popey: What kind of battery life do you get on it?
<popey> dunno, mostly plugged in on my desk
<popey> longest I had was transatlantic flight
<popey> maybe 9 hours
<popey> playing video constantly
<TwistedLucidity> That's not too shabby. Is it hackable?
<foobarry> its not even openable without a razor
<TwistedLucidity> Ah...so installing a different OS is going to be...fraught
<davmor2> popey: it is only on certain models so you might of got a batch before it happened
<TwistedLucidity> Whatever happened to colour e-ink I wonder?
<popey> sadly x86 based tablets are not very hackable
<knightwise> I played with that phone that has an epaper display on the back and a regular screen on the front
<popey> ironically the Microsoft Surface is more hackable than Android tablets / phones
<knightwise> the Yotaphone
<knightwise> The surface is a dream if you run ubuntu on it
<zmoylan-pi> a knightmare if you don't :-)
<foobarry> weird and unpredictable? thats what my dreams are like
<knightwise> its my favorite knightmare ?
<knightwise> knight-mare :p
<knightwise> foobarry: you dream of thong-sporting furries
<foobarry> last night i dreamt i was on a night out in islington and bumped into my mate who had brought a whole delicatessen counter with him, featuring various cuts of meat
 * zmoylan-pi sticks fingers in ears and starts chanting la-la-la-la
<popey> i had a dream last night where I was busting for the toilet
<popey> I woke up
<popey> and I was busting for the toilet
<popey> That is about the extent of my dreams.
<knightwise> popey: its called lucid dreaming to the extreme
<popey> They don't need much in the way of interpretation.
<knightwise> dump /dev/null
<foobarry> lol
<davmor2> I never remember my dreams
<popey> every so often I am reminded of http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/10/ubuntu-installer-for-nexus-7-tablet-made-available-for-devs#comment-693710478 which always makes me smile
<davmor2> I probably dream of ways of breaking JamesTait 's spirit or ubuntu or something :D
<popey> wait, he has spirit!?
<popey> mug him!
<zmoylan-pi> today is NOT JamesTait's day! \o/ :-P
<davmor2> popey: he did have I broke it in my dreams
<davmor2> popey: also it was spirit not spirits, no point mugging him till he has at least one bottle of Whiskey
<JamesTait> popey, it's the only thing that gets me through the day. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: is beuno aware of your drinking issue?
<JamesTait> davmor2, I don't have an issue with drinking. I can drink perfectly well!
<zmoylan-pi> after that it's all a blur...
<davmor2> JamesTait: Hic
 * davmor2 can picture JamesTait getting away with HHHonest hoccifer I only had one drinnk
<zmoylan-pi> have you seen my keg?
<foobarry> how does one change the passphrase for whole encrypted disk?
<foobarry> so much misinfo on various wikis and stacks
<popey> didnt know you could do that without a re-install
<foobarry> oh :-|
<awilkins> Naah, sure you can
<awilkins> * dpending on disk encryption
<zmoylan-pi> just make sure you have a few good backups before testing... :-)
<foobarry> full disk enc
<awilkins> Doesn't it have like 15 slots for keys so changing the passphrase just copies the key to another slot encrypted with that phrase?
<awilkins> Changing the KEY, that's another matter
<directhex> yeah, that's itr
<directhex> you can change the password. let me find the syntax
<popey> nice
<popey> worth knowing.
<directhex> oh, apparently it's in the GUI on 14.04+
<directhex> run Disks, click cog -> change passphrase
<popey> so it is!
<popey> guess you need a live cd/usb to do that
<directhex> not IME
<directhex> iirc
<popey> hmm, it's greyed out here
<popey> i thought because it's mounted
<directhex> huh, maybe it is then
<directhex> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<popey> IKR
<foobarry> lolz
<foobarry> thanks, that gives me something to work on
<directhex> it's cryptsetup LuksChangeKey under the hood
<directhex> change key in one slot, delete key in old slot
<directhex> probably works
<zmoylan-pi> ...probably...
<ujjain> is ocado cheap because its online-onlhy?
<davmor2> ujjain: NO ocado is just Waitrose delivery aiui so it won't be cheap
<DJones> If anybody is looking at getting an ubuntu phone https://twitter.com/ubuntu/status/580718582662823936/photo/1 Another flash sale tomorrow
<ujjain>  davmor2, ah, that explains, seemed expensive
<popey> ocado > *
<foobarry> i recall a story where a well educated nigerian guy moves to UK, and asks a friend what a good newspaper to read is
<foobarry> friend says "the sun". so this gentleman reads the semi literate boob filled rag so considerable time thinking this is quality english newspaper
<foobarry> didn't really check for himself
<zmoylan-pi> i thought builders read it as it had 1) sports results 2) cheap 3) very absorbent in portaloos
<foobarry> 4) boobs
<foobarry> bbc news app fulfils 1,2
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think that was considered a factor, mind i think they got rid of page 3 in ireland a fair few years back
<foobarry> i've heard many people quote point 4) as their primary reason
<foobarry> didn't they ditch it here too recently, or were they trolling?
<zmoylan-pi> i've heard 1,2 + 3 as primary reasons from builders
<zmoylan-pi> they trolled the uk by not having it for a few days
<foobarry> must have been those days the builders never turned up at my house
<Myrtti> so that's the tale of Jeremy Clarkson then.
<zmoylan-pi> some other station will snap him up
<zmoylan-pi> 1 million people signed a petition to take him back _after_ he assaulted the producer.
<ali1234> thus proving why democracy doesn't work
<zmoylan-pi> demoracy is the worst of all systems, till you look at all the other systems...
<foobarry> what heppened? cameron announcned clarkson to succeed him as PM?
<ali1234> no, the system where we pretend to have democracy but actually both choices are the same is far better
<foobarry> clarkson should get into politics
<Myrtti> why? tories have plenty of politicians that think exactly like Clarkson already
<foobarry> if chris evans gets to be presenter i'm ripping up my printed email of my tv licence
<Myrtti> we got a UKIP candidates letter in our mailbox the other day. I was surprised when the hubby went directly to the garden to burn it.
<zmoylan-pi> you should switch to proportional representation, then you'll know what chaos is in a democracy :-)
<awilkins> First Past The Post is not democratic enough
<zmoylan-pi> 2 men enter, 1 man leave would make great reality tv... :-P
<foobarry> is tina turner still going?
<awilkins> Saw a TED talk which proposed the notion of a political party who actually had in it's manifesto that it would only do stuff that had a democratic mandate
<foobarry> November 26, 1939 (age 75)
<Myrtti> move all the elections using the same model as the MEP elections
<awilkins> Measured by online polling of policies...
<awilkins> Electronic voting is something I oppose, but I also acknowledge that something like it would be the only practical way of having proper democracy
<zmoylan-pi> punch card voting forms would do the trick for quicker voting.  we can have working punch cards unlike florida
<awilkins> I oppose electronic voting because it's a system that's way too open to abuse but closed to inspection - only a small fraction of 1% of the population could actually audit a computerised election
<directhex> i approve of electronic voting, and disagree with computerized or online voting
<directhex> india's machines work great
<Myrtti> I have absolute no faith electronic voting what so ever.
<awilkins> Naah, pencil/paper
<Myrtti> all the implementations I've seen have been major clusterfailures
<awilkins> i) Someone of average intelligence understands it well enough to spot fraud
<awilkins> ii) Counting paper votes scales well - just add more people.
<directhex> india's implementation has a great security record compared to the US's
<foobarry> the problem with party politics is evidenced in this chan
<foobarry> 1 person = 1 different opinion
<awilkins> iii) As a bonus, adding more people makes it more fraud-resistant
<foobarry> awilkins: see bethnal green for large scale voting fraud
<zmoylan-pi> ireland spent about â¬50m on electronic voting before it was abandoned.
<foobarry> surely its the way of things eventually?
<awilkins> foobarry, Yeah - they detected it though, didn't they
<zmoylan-pi> nope. the process has to be visible to many and be seen to be tamper resistant.  current methods work ok-ish. electronic versions do not
<foobarry> awilkins: not really
<foobarry> there were more votes cast than residents
<awilkins> foobarry, the fact that you're telling me about the fraud, means it was detected...
<foobarry> this is related but a different story
<foobarry> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11382160/Judge-to-see-forensics-that-point-to-Tower-Hamlets-vote-fraud.html
<foobarry> "Yesterday the Mail visited one four-bedroom flat in the area where 18 men are apparently claiming a vote, all of whom registered within the past month.
<foobarry> The students living there were baffled by many of the names said to be residing with them. Another resident was surprised to learn that eight complete strangers were also registered as living in the small flat she shares with her partne"
<awilkins> The more complex you make an electronic voting system, the fewer people can successfully audit it
<foobarry> they don't have man power or desire to check
<awilkins> Yes, that's electoral roll fraud though
<awilkins> It is a) already managed electronically b) easy to check
<awilkins> Electronic management of electoral rolls, yes
<awilkins> Electronic vote counting, no
<Myrtti> so many issues that would possibly be solved to have an automatic electronic electoral roll.
<Myrtti> well, national registry in general
<awilkins> The fact that they are not checking it properly is just incompetence, especially since an electronic electoral roll is cheaper to check than a paper on
<awilkins> Checking an electronic vote tabulation system OTOH is harder than keeping a distributed set of mark I eyeballs on a paper one
<awilkins> Yes, because it's central and electronic, it ought to be cheaper
<awilkins> But that also is a weakness, because it makes it cheaper to nobble your auditors
<awilkins> When only a small priesthood of technocrats can audit your system, it's much cheaper to buy them off/spoof them/deliberately find incompetent ones
<awilkins> You can have all the effects of widespread voting fraud with much less cost and effort
<ali1234> the problem is that very few people will actually audit anything regardless of how easy it is
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
<dutchie> lo bigcalm
<bigcalm> From bq: "We are writing to inform you that you have received or are about to receive your order via the UPS courrier service." Trust it to be delivered when nobody is at home. I hope my neighbours are in a good mood today
<zmoylan-pi> some form of pit under the welcome mat to slow them down...
<directhex> hm
<directhex> if you were going to go to a website which told you about different steamos community projects and forks, without any valve trademarks in the url, what would you say was a good choice of url?
<bigcalm> No
<foobarry> directhex: what are the trademarks? valve, steam , steamos, and all their games?
<Myrtti> communityfog
<directhex> foobarry: yes
<Myrtti> although fog can be corrupted into nasties
<bigcalm> 134 packages can be updated.
<bigcalm> 88 updates are security updates.
<foobarry> h2osmium
<bigcalm> I forgot about my parent's server :(
<foobarry> bit contrived :P
<foobarry> directhex: maybe find a type of valve that functions as a fork/splitter
<popey> bigcalm: sounds like you need landscape :)
<directhex> hm. fumecupboard.org is free.
 * popey logs into landscape now and then and presses the "update them all" button
<bigcalm> popey: haven't considered it to be worth the expense
<popey> its free
<popey> for up to 10 machines
<popey> plus 10 vms
<popey> iirc
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> I thought it cost
<popey> it does
<foobarry> directhex: pressurecooker
<directhex> foobarry: taken :(
<popey> pssrckr
<awilkins> Landscape is free for 10 hard machines + 10 VMs?
<awilkins> Or is that just "10 machines, whether they're virtual or not" ?
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/549809/how-do-i-install-landscape-for-personal-use
<popey> " It is free for up to 10 physical machines and 10 more virtual machines for a total of 20:"
<awilkins> Groovy
<diplo> Might have to have a play with that myself, got a few VM's with it :)
 * bigcalm emails himself for later tinkering
<bigcalm> popey: thanks
<awilkins> Do you have to have a dedicated server?
<awilkins> Can it be a VM running on one of the machines it's managing :-) ?
<foobarry> 100degreeswater
<foobarry> .com
<popey> these days I'd be inclined to use a random sequence of letters which is pronouncable
<foobarry> didn't twitter used to be called twitr
<diddledan> fltr
<foobarry> those names will date badly
<Myrtti> foggr
<popey> agrajag.com :)
<foobarry> lol is that availabl.e?
<zmoylan-pi> programmers who watched too much jeopardy
<popey> no :(
<popey> someone in High Wycombe
<popey>    Expiration Date: 07-dec-2022
<popey> jeez
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: what demographic is most wellknown for inventing random questions?
<popey> or use some old norse god or something like icculus did
<zmoylan-pi> oooooh i know this.... which group always ask, but does it run linux?
<foobarry> fjords.org.uk
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeLZCy-_m3s
<intrbiz> fluttr - social gambling ?
<foobarry> muttr dog walking and chatting network
<foobarry> mattr - social chemistry.
<directhex> ok. trying to avoid valve's trademarks is tough
<diddledan> hattr - a mad person
<directhex> but here's my current idea: ductworks. it sorta evokes the idea of a factory, sorta about moving hot air from A to B so not entirely divorced from "steam"
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00KAKUN3E fire TV stick is Â£19 for prime members
<directhex> thoughts?
<TwistedLucidity> "Suggested by Amazon from your recent TV viewing...."
<daftykins> hmm, XFS gets 30MB/sec and EXT4 gets 45MB/sec with a test rsync
<diddledan> daftykins: boiler
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> directhex: ^^
<directhex> diddledan: there aren't many "boiler" domains that aren't taken
<diddledan> ergh
<directhex> i want a .org for this, really
<intrbiz> daftykins: read or write?
<diddledan> boilerpipe
<intrbiz> daftykins: what kernel?
<directhex> e.g. boilerroom and boilerhouse were both taken
<daftykins> intrbiz: write, with write-cache disabled
<diddledan> pipedream
<daftykins> intrbiz: 3.13.0-46
<diddledan> :-p
<Myrtti> sauna
<popey> diddledan: how about Stavromula.com then you can brand it "Stavromula Beta"
<intrbiz> daftykins: barriers turned on on ext4?
<daftykins> intrbiz: whatever defaults are *shrug*
<popey> s/ diddledan / directhex
<TwistedLucidity> Steam OS...no valve trade marks...hmmm
<diddledan> pipedream's prolly so old it's 1) abandonware, and 2) unknown to many
<intrbiz> daftykins: what disk array?
<daftykins> intrbiz: all i did for the EXT4 test was "sudo mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdc1" :>
<daftykins> intrbiz: 8 x 4TB WD Red in RAID6 with 64KB stripe on a 3ware board
<intrbiz> daftykins: barriers are a mount time option, I forget if EXT4 is on or off
<intrbiz> daftykins: have you run bonnie++ ?
<daftykins> i am unfamiliar with bonnie 0o
<intrbiz> daftykins: excellent tool for testing disk perf
<intrbiz> daftykins: how much RAM ?
<daftykins> 2GB
<directhex> daftykins: are you working on large or small files?
<daftykins> dedi file server
<daftykins> directhex: large predominantly, media storage for this chap
<intrbiz> daftykins: bonnie++ -f -r 2048
<daftykins> XFS seems a little bit quirky to understand but i eventually settled on "sudo mkfs.xfs -d su=64k,sw=6 -f /dev/sdc" for making up the XFS volume :>
<daftykins> that's 6 data disks and 64KB stripe
<intrbiz> yeh
<diddledan> we've just had an interesting discussion over how we're looking to find a young-looking 9yearold
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: Considered non-English words? I bought a real-word domain last year in German. Very handy.
<diddledan> because you can do more with a 9yo than you can a 6yo
<intrbiz> I use XFS on all my systems
<daftykins> diddledan: err...
<foobarry> xfs is horrid on disk full
<diddledan> daftykins: indeed
<intrbiz> daftykins: you can also increase the AG count if you've got a parrellel workload
<directhex> XFS is red hat approved!
<foobarry> kernel panic, xfs_repair involved , messy
<foobarry> had that situation many times, and even last week on a file server
<TwistedLucidity> Althoigh dampf.org probably isn't that great.....
<intrbiz> foobarry: never had to XFS repair when I've filled the disk before
<daftykins> intrbiz: do i need to sit in the path of that volume when running bonnie++ for it to use that?
<daftykins> or is it going to do them all :D
<foobarry> intrbiz: happpens frequently on various servers, also goes titty when a disk dies
<intrbiz> daftykins: yes, it will create a temp file in working directory
<foobarry> on the raid array
<intrbiz> daftykins: watch iostat -mx 5 in another console too
<daftykins> roger that, bonnie is running now, shall connect in again
<daftykins> 100% util hah-har
<intrbiz> daftykins: you can increase the -r param to write a bigger work load, it writes a file twice that size, IE, write twice the amount of RAM
<intrbiz> daftykins: 100% util at what though put?
<daftykins> can't say i'm too familiar with these units
<intrbiz> daftykins: wMB/s column
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10678728/
<daftykins> oh hello that value was up at 375MB/sec a moment ago
<daftykins> ah no i was reading read
<intrbiz> daftykins: 83% IOWait at 20MB/s rewrite is not a good sign
<daftykins> i do have write cache disabled on the controller right now, as mentioned
<daftykins> lets have another go
<foobarry> iozone draws a pretty 3d graph for you
<daftykins> 45-48MB/sec write now
<daftykins> 84% IO wait
<daftykins> i'm not sure whether i'd rather stay on EXT4 or go back to XFS
<intrbiz> daftykins: has bonnie++ finished? can you paste the output
<daftykins> yeah the first run had done
<daftykins> horrible formatting :D http://paste.ubuntu.com/10678763/
<intrbiz> daftykins: something fundametally wrong with that diska array, only hitting 46.183 MB/s
<daftykins> let me run it again with write cache on
<intrbiz> daftykins: does your controller have a battery backed cache?
<daftykins> nope, that's why i've been messing around with write cache off
<intrbiz> right
<daftykins> writes is up to 145MB/sec with write cache on, iowait % down to 25
<daftykins> the whole machine is UPS'd though so i'm not sure i should worry much
<daftykins> wow that run completed so much quicker with write cache on :D
<intrbiz> daftykins: have you tried presenting each disk as JBOD and using software RAID ?
<daftykins> i don't want to
<intrbiz> daftykins: I'd be very weary of using write cache without a BBU
<intrbiz> daftykins: even for testing?
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10678810/
<daftykins> well what would you be expecting to see different here?
<daftykins> hmm i do also have the 3ware's whole 'security' vs. 'balance' vs. 'performance' profiles too
<daftykins> right now it's on balance
<intrbiz> never used 3ware controllers
<daftykins> does the above paste show much of what you're expecting?
<daftykins> performance mode ran even quicker now, naturally
<intrbiz> daftykins: how big is the controller cache?
<daftykins> 256MB on card i think
<intrbiz> run bonnie with -r 4096 ?
<daftykins> same comparison as my last paste or with this 'performance' mode on too?
<intrbiz> sure
<daftykins> it's more about capacity this storage though, so performance isn't really the matter
<daftykins> i was more picking a file system still :D
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10678845/
<daftykins> there we go
<daftykins> oops i typed 2048 for the last one when i meant 4096
<intrbiz> it says the file size in the output anyway
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> so, still look iffy in someway?
<intrbiz> performance is more expected with the cache on
<intrbiz> with the cache off, it looks really bad, I suspect the parity computing is the bottle neck with the cache off
<daftykins> mmm, even with it on you see the write rates dancing all around
<intrbiz> at ~ 500MB/s you need to run a much larger / longer test to get reliable results
<intrbiz> you'll often see the write rate drop when the controller flushes teh cache etc too
<daftykins> seems weird to me i only see 85-90MB/sec rsyncing from another RAID6 on the same controller to that one?
<intrbiz> rsyncing over network?
<daftykins> local HBA
<daftykins> 16 disks on the same controller
<daftykins> 2 x 8 disk RAID6s
<intrbiz> daftykins: with or without the writec cache?
<daftykins> with
<intrbiz> what do you see in iostat when you rsync?
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10678896/
<daftykins> 21,038,380,819 100%   85.17MB/s    0:03:55 - test file
<daftykins> maybe that's just the best you can get from a RAID6 writes even with 8 disks?
<intrbiz> daftykins: RAID 5/6 are slower for writes than RAID 10 would be, it's a trade off of speed vs space
<daftykins> yip
<intrbiz> but I would have expected to see 160MB/s - 320MB/s for the number of spindles you have
<intrbiz> is plain old cp any quicker than rsync ?
<daftykins> is there a way to wrap it up for stats?
<daftykins> time cp file dest, i suppose
<intrbiz> just use iostat to watch the IO throughput
<daftykins> wow yeah it's destroying rsync
<daftykins> 170MB/sec
<daftykins> it seems to be limited by the read rate from the other RAID
<intrbiz> daftykins: any reason for the two arrays rather than one big array?
<daftykins> real    1m55.593s - so practically half the time of the other, so yeah 170MB/sec
<daftykins> intrbiz: yep, migrating the old to this new one at the moment as the olds disks are out of warranty now
<daftykins> been spinning for 5+ years solid
<intrbiz> ah ok
<daftykins> all this fiddling is me getting comfy before committing :)
<daftykins> intrbiz: do you have a preferred file system for these setups?
<TwistedLucidity> Mystery solved. ufw is block KDE Connect....curses!
<intrbiz> daftykins: I prefer XFS, especially for high performance work loads like databses
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> i definitely had no issues with it last time
<intrbiz> daftykins: XFS also has quicker log recovery, less need for fsck
<daftykins> maybe i'll go back to it then :)
<intrbiz> daftykins: more parellel with via multiple allocation groups, better FSTrim handling
<daftykins> "sudo mkfs.xfs -d su=64k,sw=6 -f /dev/sdc1" definitely sounded good? it's funny how obscure some XFS docs are
<intrbiz> daftykins: and since 3.2 has better perf / IOPs profile at high thoughput
<daftykins> initially i thought sw=8 for 8 disks, but then learnt it wants you to factor in data only disks
<daftykins> kernel 3.2 onwards?
<intrbiz> yes
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> yeah this was just recently reinstalled from 10.04.4 server, so finally up to date
<daftykins> had to move to a 64-bit host OS to handle mounting 24TB as well :D
<intrbiz> daftykins: you could try without specifying strip width, it should get auto-detected if the block layer passes up
<daftykins> yeah not sure if the 3ware presents the info, the xfs_info command just showed blank values
<intrbiz> daftykins: also, I'd increase the ag count
<daftykins> i'll have to look into how to do that then
<intrbiz> daftykins: mkfs.xfs -d agcount=32
<daftykins> seems 22 was default
<intrbiz> daftykins: max size for an AG is 1TB
<daftykins> XFS is hitting 200MB/sec write now
<daftykins> with a standard cp, write cache on
<intrbiz> daftykins: cool
<intrbiz> daftykins: is that faster than EXT4 ?
<daftykins> definitely
<daftykins> i think being able to factor in the real physical attributes with XFS gives it an advantage
<daftykins> intrbiz: thanks very much for your input :)
<intrbiz> daftykins: your su and sw settings look right, but I've always found it can be worth benchmarking with and without (assuming you have the time and interest)
<daftykins> yep i did both and had no difference with rsync at least, but now we know that was a bottleneck of some kind
<intrbiz> daftykins: no worries, to much time spent debugging disk arrays in the past
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10679070/
<daftykins> that's what i did earlier this afternoon
<intrbiz> daftykins: I'd look at getting a BBU, the money vs the risk etc (even with a UPS)
<daftykins> yeah, i'll price it up - might be hard to get hold of now
<daftykins> ah no Â£8.60 on ebay :D
<intrbiz> daftykins: is it an older controller?
<daftykins> yeah, 3ware 9650SE 16 port
<daftykins> proper legacy status now, both with LSI and whoever bought LSI now
<intrbiz> I've used the Areca controllers in the past, very nice cards
<intrbiz> LSI MegaRAID are usually pretty good
<daftykins> i very nearly tried one back in Uni time, but decided to stick with what i knew
<daftykins> in fact glancing at ebay i'm shocked how cheap they can be found
<intrbiz> I pciked up some Dells controllers for around Â£30 the othter year
<intrbiz> flashed with the LSI firmware they are good for the price
<daftykins> :O
<intrbiz> interestingly for RAID 10 the LSI firmware was about 4 times faster than the Dell firmware
<daftykins> haha, that's a neat discovery
<daftykins> i'm amazed it even goes on!
<intrbiz> I think you just ignore the warming and it works *most* of the time
<intrbiz> the best I saw, was one customer's (very expensive) SAN was only hit 15MB/s under bonnie++
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> what had they done wrong?
<intrbiz> I think after alot of internal politics, their ops guys confessed to putting it on a low perf / oversubscribed LUN
<daftykins> erk :S
<daftykins> oh wow i'm fiddling around and just caught a sector repair on the old array
<daftykins> wow it's one of the good disks 0o
<daftykins> ok now one of the new disks reads 'device error' :) seems like it's going to be one of those days
<intrbiz> via smart? or via the array block device?
<daftykins> i saw a delay from just an "ls" on the old, so i did "dmesg | tail" and saw sector repairs
<daftykins> then the notification emails flooded in... i've got 58 emails :D
<daftykins> not quite sure why one of the new ones has gone 'device error' though
<daftykins> how jammy, that one older disk is in warranty ^_^
<intrbiz> :)
<daftykins> hopefully the new one is just down to a wonky connection
<daftykins> anywho on with the 9TB rsync
<daftykins> in the ongoing game of people signing my email address up to their stuff, apparently i am Dawn - who is a new subscriber to Sky TV
<bashrc_> email is such a secure protocol
<daftykins> sure is
<daftykins> lol through to sky support
<daftykins> <me> i'm not Dawn!
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> "due to data protection we cannot do anything"
<daftykins> so i told him i'd enjoy continuing to watch what Dawn watches on TV
<intrbiz> hmmm, ok, Eclipse really does not want to let me edit a switch statement :(
<davmor2> daftykins: you need a nick change to dawnykins obviously ;)
<daftykins> seems so!
<MooDoo> bloomin virgin router
<daftykins> MooDoo: hmm? flaking out?
<MooDoo> daftykins: yeah virgin was down for a bit, then the router reset it self, then wouldn't let me connect, so I've just turned it into modem only and attached a dd-wrt router I have and am using that instead
<daftykins> \o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: about time too, you'll have a much nicer time with it honest :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: your spy camera arrived then
<ali1234> what's the deal with /var/log/mysql.log?
<ali1234> it's just completely empty...
<shauno> worst standup routine ever.
<ali1234> mysql isn't logging anything at all
<ali1234> which is annoying becuase it is playing up
<shauno> hm, neither's mine (deb wheezy)
<awilkins_> Default mysql config is probably "don't log things"
<awilkins_> I imagine that it can fill a disk quite fast if it actually logs everything
<ali1234> yeah but when the server just stops responding to any requests for 15 minutes i'd like a log of that somewhere, besides all the 500 errors from apache
<popey> shauno: that made me chuckle, thank you
<diddledan> I wonder how many messages the combined ubuntu channels have amassed over their lifetime
<diddledan> I'm guessing it's greater than 56million
 * diddledan hides his calculator
<shauno> see, that's dangerous.  because now you pretty much have to wander off the to log server and find out
<diddledan> maybe
<shauno> and this is why I've repeatedly tried to ban you from wondering
<diddledan> or maybe I just use screengrab: https://mrkr.io/kqeAmCDLBf
<shauno> ali1234, how familiar are you with a1200 accelerators?  most I find (non-ppc) have a gap waiting for an fpu.  wondering if you just drop that in there and what you actually gain
<ali1234> yeah you just plug it in
<ali1234> maybe change a jumper
<ali1234> and you gain not very much unless you run software compiled for FPU
<shauno> hm, that's what I feared
<diddledan> a1200?
<shauno> I guess it's more for the nuts that stick debian/netbsd on there?
<ali1234> no, for those you need an MMU
<shauno> I thought that just came from using a non-LC proc?
<ali1234> it does
<ali1234> but no A1200 shipped with an MMU
<ali1234> hardly any A4000 shipped with one either
<shauno> hm, I think I'll hold off on that then, save me 50 quid and taking a soldering iron to my accellerator
<ali1234> the chips are usually socketed
<ali1234> diddledan: amiga
<diddledan> aah, thanks
<shauno> mine just has a field of solderpads with 68882 written in the middle
<ali1234> ah, not worth it then
<shauno> as does the new one I was looking at :(
<ali1234> "new"
<shauno> well, recent.  it's some crazy german guy who still makes them
<shauno> http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/aca1233   2014  lol
<shauno> I'll be ordering a new scandoubler from him, so have been pondering if it's worth picking up while I'm there
<ali1234> well that looks like it has an MMU at least
<shauno> he made my current one, but the new revision has dvi-i, and will work to vga or hdmi
<shauno> which is exactly the kind of crazy I think deserves support
<shauno> (plus, I do believe my old CRT is old enough to leave home)
<daftykins> diddledan: i wonder how many are me discovering dead disks...
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> diddledan: did you see i managed to kill a disk in each array on the system i'm testing atm?
<daftykins> one has bad sectors and the other has just gone AWOL
<diddledan> ouch
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> will have to check that out tomorrow
<diddledan> daftykins: in #ubuntu searching for "daftykins dead" I get 60584 results
<daftykins> they wish
<diddledan> and for "daftykins disk" I get 161957 results
<daftykins> daftykins smartctl ?
<daftykins> i swear i need to discover how to alias some of that stuff
<diddledan> that's 47497 results
<daftykins> aww
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-26
<daftykins> diddledan: did y'hear about X-Files coming back!? http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/46786/1427227397/XFiles2015.gif 8D
<zmoylan-pi> 6 episodes... not enough time for them to investigate why it went off air :-)
<daftykins> http://b3ta.com/images/challenge/xfiles_large.jpg
<m0nkey_> Samsung 850 EVO 500GB for $250. Should I?
<daftykins> mmm, EVOs have had firmware flaws but the 850 possibly uses 3D V-NAND TLC
<daftykins> i still don't like any SSD that uses TLC
<m0nkey_> you're the second person to say don't like TLC, but can you come up for a reason for not liking TLC?
<daftykins> indeed, shorter life span due to far iffier voltage for reading the NAND in shorter time, which many of the firmwares trip up on causing performance to trail off very quickly versus MLC
<m0nkey_> Thing is, my use case is mostly reading from the drive. And to be fair, I'd probably replace it in 2-3 years. I can't see myself putting a heavy workload on it.
<m0nkey_> Heck, I still have my 4 year old Sandisk SSD and it's still working like a champ.
<m0nkey_> The EVO line also has a 5 year warranty.
<daftykins> fair enough!
<daftykins> might only be the 840 EVO affected by the firmware issue too, not sure
<m0nkey_> The 850 certainly makes improvements.
<m0nkey_> Most reviews say that TLC 3D-NAND is close to Planar MLC in terms of endurance.
<m0nkey_> One review has calculated that with a lifespan of about 20GB/day written, the 500GB would last 93.5years.
<m0nkey_> I don't write 2GB/day
<m0nkey_> If it's still on sale tomorrow, I'll probably get it.
<zmoylan-pi> if it's not spinning you miss out on knowing the exact moment it fails :-) http://i.imgur.com/X39IsHJ.gif
<ali1234> you might write 2GB a day, if swap is on the SSD
<ali1234> anyway i don't trust those lifespan tests
<ali1234> a better test would be to fill up 90% of the drive and then blast the remaining 10%...
<zmoylan-pi> they're mtbfs, not lifespans, aren't they?
<ali1234> i mean that test where they just wrote as fast as possible until failure
<daftykins> they sell based on a number of program/erase cycles
<daftykins> i think
<ali1234> yeah they do, and those are much lower than what the review found
<daftykins> mmhmm
<zmoylan-pi> cause you can buy a drive and have it die 5 minutes after you plug it in.  i had one annoying little seagate that died 1 week after i got just after i had finished copying all my media to it...
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> yeah you almost need to give a new storage device a good workout before trusting it
<zmoylan-pi> i invented a few new swear words that day i can tell you :-)
<daftykins> like i'm seeing with that new array, having killed one of 8 already..
<ali1234> i always dd over news drives a couple of times if i can
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: some amusing ones that rhyme with 'seagate' i hope?
<zmoylan-pi> copying a few tb onto a drive is a workout
<ali1234> (not ssds though)
<mapps> hi all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapps> had a pay review tday;D
<mapps>  so my parcel is at the parcel depot.'held' at customs..think its because my dad didnt do a customs declaration..it's just a phone..they havent tried to deliver it..if I walk down to the depot with my passport and tracking number will i be able to collect it? I mean il happily open it infront of people - it would have been scanned when it got into the country
<mapps> anyone have any experience in this area/any idea
<zmoylan-pi> closest was when a mate ordered a grapple hook online and had to pick it up at postoffice when they didn't deliver it
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect you'll need a your wallet in case some duty needs to be paid on it
<mapps> i hope no duty has to be paid..cost Â£45 in postage..haven't had a card to say they tried to deliver or anything just noticed when i checked the tracking reference
<mapps> you think if i go with passport/reference and wallet (if need to pay) theyll locate the parcel for me?
<mapps> it would've been x-rayed when it got to the airport anyway so they know its not a bomb..just my dad didnt know he had to do a customs declaration..dont know how seriously they take that
<zmoylan-pi> i mean in ireland when that happens you they usually deliver it and you can pay the duty at the door.  have heard of that happening to people.
<mapps> yea ive had that in the UK
<mapps> ]but the thing is here my dad didnt put any declaration form on it and it aays it can take longer/make it get returned to the sender or just a delay while they investigate it
<zmoylan-pi> maybe gibraltar has some other law in effect?
<mapps> as i say im happy to open it infront of them :Z
<mapps> just hope i dont go there and get the run around..red tape..beurocracy and basically come out empty handed with no answers
<mapps> they MUST know its safe no? surely zmoylan-pi if there were any doubts over it they wouldnt let it past gatwick or out of the airport here?
<zmoylan-pi> how did they tell you the package was held at customs?  did they tell you what to do or who to contact?
<mapps> they didn;t
<mapps> ive had no contact nothing..no delivery card
<mapps> but i checked the tracking number got here sunday and just says held
<zmoylan-pi> well i don't think it's a safety thing, just a duty thing
<mapps> which i think means held at the parcel depot it's obviously in the country
<zmoylan-pi> email the delivery company?
<mapps> yea if i was safety i dont think it would even have left the UK or got through security at airport
<mapps> prob be a waste of time
<mapps> emailed gib telecom and they take weeks to get back
<mapps> all relaxed and slow here
<zmoylan-pi> less of a waste than going there and coming back empty handed?
<mapps> its only a 5min walk though
<mapps> so thats no too bad
<mapps> just dont know what they do in these situations..will they deliver me a card tio say to come..will it be unpacked by them and delivered..no idea..
<mapps> and i dont want to leave it and they send it back lol
<mapps> so i guess no choice but to go tomorrow and hope i get someone sensible
<zmoylan-pi> someone sensible... civil servant...
<mapps> :D
<mapps> i can hope
<mapps> :D
<zmoylan-pi> search online for deliveries gibraltar held at customs and see if a solution is mentioned?
<mapps> i did
<mapps> couldnt find much help when it says customs i think it means parcel depot as they have customs people there
<mapps> dont think its actually at the border sorta speak
<mapps> if i could've ordered to gibraltar in the first instance i would have =[
<zmoylan-pi> no one said the system had to make sense
<mapps> true
<mapps> crazy you cant order to gib really
<mapps> i mean Â£45 postage lol
<zmoylan-pi> for that amont of money you could attach a rasp pi with gps and a motor with a solar panel and have it ship itself by sea from uk :-)
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> hoping no duty to pay..it cost enough shipping already=[[[
<zmoylan-pi> it's a phone, it fits in so many categorys, communications device, luxury, fashion, computer that they'll find some duty to slap on it
<mapps> cant find much useful
<mapps> wiki says between 10-12%
<mapps> cant se3e much on the gib post website or the hmgov thing
<knightwise> morning peeps
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<knightwise> how are you today
<knightwise>  doing ok. Fired up the dual screen workstation , had coffee , listening to U2 ... i'm awake baby !
<knightwise> oh wait ..
<knightwise> i'm not that awake .. I just answered my own question #failfailfail
<Guest21557> morning all
<MooDoo> try again, morning all
<knightwise> mornin MooDoo
<diplo> Morning knightwise :) Sorry said morning and then went off to do pre work stuff :)
<LetsGoGo> http://ebay.eu/1D0pZOb nuff said.
<LetsGoGo> leaves.
<Myrtti> I wonder if it's possible to hook up ordnance survey etc. data on Cities: Skylines map modder... would make it more fun
<Myrtti> maybe even a bit more useful than minecrafting it
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: got your spy camera then
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning dude :)
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> so a stupid question : Can you order the ubuntu phone yet ?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<lornajane> I think so, I saw a photo of it on facebook, jontheniceguy has one
<bigcalm> knightwise: there are flash sales
<bigcalm> Hey lornajane :)
<DJones> knightwise: Supposed to be a flash sale today
<bigcalm> Mine arrived yesterday while I was at the office
<DJones> knightwise: https://twitter.com/ubuntu/status/581004174491430913
<knightwise> So with flash sale you mean : up for grabs ?
<DJones> http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
<bigcalm> knightwise: go and buy one now while the "Purchase" button is on that page
<lornajane> hey bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes, it arrived
<popey> http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
<popey> \o/
<popey> delayed reaction
<davmor2> bigcalm: \o/
<bigcalm> I have a feeling that most of the apps on my phone are now just web containers. I can't tell what's local and what isn't. Guess it doesn't matter too much
<davmor2> bigcalm: and initial thoughts
<bigcalm> popey: I like your youtube app
<bigcalm> But I haven't worked out how to go "back" from an action
<bigcalm> davmor2: it's nice. The swiping isn't always accurate though
<lornajane> bigcalm: honestly I think that's the future.  SmashingConf was all about how mobile web was going to leapfrog apps, be bookmarkable, and the world would change
<lornajane> the big side-effect there I think is that it makes it realistic to get outside of the android or iphone ecosystems
<bigcalm> I can see its use
<lornajane> (for most things, I lost custody of my android phone in the pub when my firefox OS husband wanted to play space team)
<bigcalm> I don't long for "native" apps. But I also don't have a sim in this phone. So it needs a wifi connection to work :)
<MooDoo> howdy all
<MooDoo> come on sun, you know you want to come out
 * bashrc hankers for native apps
<lornajane> I am android and use a lot of native apps but mostly as adaptive technology where I can't interact with the webpages - many of them would be fine as mobile web
<bigcalm> I'd like to see the Garmin connect app come to Ubuntu
<knightwise> Boom ! Ordered
<popey> bigcalm: hehe
<knightwise> AND i got the invoice !
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<bigcalm> Is there a more local twitter app than the web container one?
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you matey
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey knightwise
<brobostigon> not bad, and yourself MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah i'm ok thanks
<davmor2> bigcalm: not that I know to feel free to write one though
<popey> bigcalm: not yet
<davmor2> popey: he's a hacker you need to encourage him to hack one ;)  bigcalm if there isn't one that meets your needs write one, I've been told that qml is very similar to web based languages ;)
<popey> or maybe an html5 one
<JamesTait> Good morning, people! Happy Make Up Your Own Holiday Day! :-D
<davmor2> popey: we already got that ;)
<popey> an offline one would be neat, for an online service
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<foobarry> popey: did you ever do the desktop pkg build of the evernote app?
<popey> Customer Account: 21188522
<popey> Domain Name: UBUNTUONAIR.COM
<popey> Authorization Code: C@CA51!BA2,74D28
<popey>  bah
<popey> that's unfortunate
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/daily it's in that ppa
<knightwise> ~~evernote on ubuntu .. the final piece of the puzzle for my sliders empire
<nigelb> ooooh, popey.
<nigelb> valuable info :P
<popey> shhh
<foobarry> are they ready to run on 14.04? or need rebuilding?
<popey> try it and see?
<popey> i dont have a 14.04 machine handy
<popey> or wait till I make a 14.04 build specifically
<popey> which is on my list
<foobarry> i don't see the app actually just a sdk package
<davmor2> JamesTait: Happy Taits day, it's like a saint georges day in that you do celebrate it, have the day off for it, or remember what day it lands on ;)
<popey> it's called reminders-app
<foobarry> oh thanks
<foobarry> concerned about my doggy :( keeps whining and shaking her head and rubbing it on the floor
<davmor2> foobarry: check it for fleas and tics
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<foobarry> the v.e.t. will tonight
<davmor2> foobarry: particularly in the ears
<foobarry> we gave her flea treatment t'other day
<foobarry> was thinking maybe ear infection
<zmoylan-pi> also possible
<foobarry> she is scratching her ears a lot
<foobarry> poor doggy
<zmoylan-pi> but does sound like ticks
<foobarry> hope its not a brain tumour
<davmor2> knightwise: reminders app plugs into evernote nicely
<zmoylan-pi> ah memories of taking first cat to the vet. 3-4 people required to capture and put her in mother shopping bag in 70s as it was only thing she couldn't escape from...
<lornajane> my cat is pretty stupid, which helps a lot.  I just post him into his box tail-first, more than once I've had the door shut before he realises he's confused
<zmoylan-pi> she'd hide under beds so it would require an old duster tied to a broom and waving it at her till she attacked and then pulling out the hooked cat
<zmoylan-pi> this cat knew vet, vet spelled out, in english AND irish and could lip read it too.  she wasn't a fan...
<foobarry> dogs can read brain waves
<bigcalm> Where does chromium keep settings for the current user?
<bigcalm> Not seeing anything related in ~.local/share
<awilkins> ~/.config/chromium
<awilkins> ?
<bigcalm> Thanks :)
<awilkins> Looks global in there though
<bigcalm> It's what I needed :)
<bigcalm> Gah
<bigcalm> I've tried removing the local files and I've tried reinstalling chromium
<bigcalm> But I see have a fuzzy section on the browser window
<bigcalm> The fuzzyness stays in the same place in Chromium no matter where I move the window my 3 monitors
<bigcalm> I'm not getting the fuzzyness in FireFox for the same web pages
<bigcalm> This makes no sense
<knightwise> davmor2: reminders app ?
<zmoylan-pi> but it _is_ driving you bonkers...
<zmoylan-pi> *mission accomplished* :-)
<Myrtti> Interesting... https://plus.google.com/u/0/+GoogleUK/posts/RVxsdp8vvTB
<foobarry> directhex: did you decide on a url yesterday?
<directhex> steamoscommunity.org and DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES
<directhex> i also own stephensonsrocket.horse
<foobarry> heh
<zmoylan-pi> is mylovely.horse still available? :-)
<directhex> NO
<directhex> someone took it but isn't using it
<directhex> amazing.horse is available tho
<foobarry> vapourtrail.org is available
<foobarry> vapour
<foobarry> .lawyer
<foobarry> for the eventual issues...
<knightwi1e> sems we just ran out of flash sales
<zmoylan-pi> no more ubuntu phones today?
<Myrtti_> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00LSS5UQC/ in a lightning deal in about 3 minutes
<mappps> hm
<knightwi1e> mornin mappps
<popey> wat, really, run out already!?
<popey> says in stock here
<popey> http://store.bqreaders.com/en/ubuntu-edition-e-4-5
<popey> they have over 100 in stock
<popey> (confirmed by adding 100 to my basket, many more than that fails)
 * popey closes tab before trying to buy 17K EUR worth of phones
<zmoylan-pi> the postman would wait for you to sign that delivery...
<knightwi1e> popey: :) you are breaking the sytem :p
<foobarry> did they stay in the basket after closing tab?
<popey> heh, i expect not
<popey> try adding 100 yourself
<foobarry> "The co-pilot of the Germanwings plane that crashed into the French Alps on Tuesday appeared to want to "destroy the plane", French officials said."
<foobarry> :-|
<knightwi1e> this media attention on this whole thing is sickening
<foobarry> breaking news culture
<zmoylan-pi> when you have 24x7 news channels you have to drag everything out to fill airspace
<foobarry> i don't watch the news
 * knightwi1e doesnt have cable anymore
<foobarry> too much focus on politics and depressing stuf
 * zmoylan-pi doesn't have tv anymore
<shauno> I dunno, personally.  I think it's kinda warranted?  I think there's a pretty legit public interest in this
<ali1234> so basically that re-enforced door that they put on planes after 9/11 turned out to be a bit of a problem in this case
<shauno> not sure I'd agree. I don't think it's feasible to actually make a plane pilot-proof.  that'd be trying to solve the wrong problems
<zmoylan-pi> the americans it seems require a 2nd person to sit in the cockpit if the pilot/co pilot need to leave for any reason.  probably happen in europe after this
<ali1234> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> but you can't make anything malicious proof, idiot proof maybe
<foobarry> the clarkson live reporting has been excessive though
<foobarry> a complete soap opera
<zmoylan-pi> again when you have a 24x7 news channel you look for news to fill it up
<shauno> the clarkson bit's been weird just to see the bbc trying to report on itself in the third-person, let alone pretending to be impartial
<popey> i remember being in a hotel in stockholm when we invaded iraq in 2003. the only en_GB channel I had was BBC news and it was relentless
<foobarry> bbc love war
<foobarry> when i was young, all i remember from the news is "in bosnia today.."
<foobarry> every day for 2 yrs
<zmoylan-pi> uk wants another napolean/hitler to remind them they're great having lost it's empire
<shauno> that's another one I think is fair though?  they're a news channel.  that's world-changing news.
<foobarry> just wait till the queen dies
<foobarry> they have weeks of footage already lined up
<shauno> (it does get old really quickly when your only english channels are bbc world & cnn  lol)
<zmoylan-pi> sunday papers with extra colour supplements
<popey> zmoylan-pi: massive generalisation fail.
<foobarry> my wife bought a newspaper to get a bakeoff or sewing beesupplment. the paper was Â£2
<davmor2> foobarry: So does cnn, itv, channel 4, channel 5, sky news, infact every channel basically
<foobarry> she could have bougth the whole book for Â£3 i expect
<zmoylan-pi> it is a generalisation but i don't think its 100% wrong popey
<popey> I don't think it's 1% right
<foobarry> i expect itv have been reporting on one direction instead
<popey> I dont think I could find 1 in 100 people who hold that opinion
<popey> unless I only canvassed UKIP supporters
<popey> or BNP
<foobarry> depends how its worded
<zmoylan-pi> a fair few conservatives too
<popey> praps
<zmoylan-pi> though of course we learned from yes minister that we could word any propistion in certain ways to get the numbers we wanted.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA
<foobarry> during the WWI centenary the guardian have been falsely claimning that britian didn't need to go to war
<zmoylan-pi> i thought you were required by treaty to help the french?
<shauno> I thought belgium were the relevant soft-spot.  being cosy with the french is a relatively modern afair
<mappps> time to see if i can get my parcel;D
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed
<davmor2> foobarry: the silly thing is the cost of replacing every police uniform and letterbox because they have EIIR on
<foobarry> letterboxes don't change FAIK
<foobarry> there's a GR one near my house
<zmoylan-pi> in a few months she takes the title of longest serving uk monarch from victoria, doesn't she?
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: September
<foobarry> go lizzy
<foobarry> plus.google.com is still really slow for me for about a week...weird
<foobarry> getting the initial page takes forever
<davmor2> foobarry: just use your hudl :D
<zmoylan-pi> that way they can use the microphone, camera and gps to keep tabs on you
<popey> https://blog.adafruit.com/2015/03/26/raspberry-pi-2-inside-a-mechanical-keyboard/
<zmoylan-pi> i was looking at that and was thinking of doing the same and adding a small 3-4" screen for make a z88 alike device
<popey> awwww, z88
<zmoylan-pi> i always hankered after one when they were launched
<TwistedLucidity> A complete computer in a keyboard? Pfft. Never happen!
<popey> zmoylan-pi: me too
<zmoylan-pi> the dana was a more modern version i seriously thought about getting and there is a rasp pi based text editor been sold i think but they're too basic
<zmoylan-pi> i did get an amstrad nc100 for a friend who loved it
<zmoylan-pi> she was able to sit in park on sunny day and do her typing instead of sitting in office or home
<TwistedLucidity> Mobile computing devices? Pfft. Never happen!
<zmoylan-pi> there was something very elegant about a keyboard with a tiny screen with no other distractions
<TwistedLucidity> Well, one can get a small touch screen for the Pit
<TwistedLucidity> Pi
<zmoylan-pi> but i want a full a4 sized keyboard that's fairly rugged + battery to power the whole caboodle
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm....might be time to fab something up in a workshop?
<zmoylan-pi> even if i stuff a battery into a keyboard and the pi and hub plus mifi ap and then use a cheap android device as a screen which i ssh into the pi for a console it might do
<TwistedLucidity> Have the cheap tablet VNC into the Pi? Assuming you want graphics....
<zmoylan-pi> nah, i'd be happy with a console and console apps, less distracting :-)
<zmoylan-pi> sure you could browse the web in lynx but it'd be harder to be distracted :-)
<TwistedLucidity> Wonder if any tablet have HDMI-in....
<zmoylan-pi> i didn't see one when i had a quick look
<TwistedLucidity> Nor me. Seems 'droid don't do input. This is about the best I could find: http://hdmipi.com/
<zmoylan-pi> i have that on my pinterest as well as pilaptop and a few other home brew projects.
<zmoylan-pi> but there are a fair few smaller screens you can connect if you invest the time and effort, even old nokia 3310 screens :-)
<mappps> yep
<mappps> didnt get the phome
<mappps> told theyve been busy
<Myrtti> Meerkat Movies \o/
<davmor2> Myrtti: Oh god no
<Myrtti> hm?
<Myrtti> why not?
<davmor2> Myrtti: Meerkat Movies no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
<Myrtti> ok then, I'm sure the cinemas are ok if you pay for two tickets for two people if you go to see a film on a Tuesday or Wednesday
<Myrtti> it's not like they're losing money on it
<Myrtti> more power to you?
<lornajane> who has a favourite git gui tool for ubuntu?  I think I need something prettier than CLI tools if I'm going to screencast git things so .... suggestions?
<awilkins_> I use gitk for log views, git-gui for commits
 * bashrc uses magit
<awilkins_> And CLI for everything else
<awilkins_> But most of using Git is log views and commits
<awilkins_> And pulls and pushes which are less interesting
<awilkins_> And diffs/merges for which I use Beyond Compare 4
<lornajane> I think I have gitk installed, used to show that you don't have to do ascii art if you don't want to :)
<mappps> so 4 days isnt enough for a parcel to clear customs
<awilkins_> I use most version control in a hybrid CLI / GUI manner
<awilkins_> Rarely use the IDE integration because it usually sucks
<awilkins_> The most I used to use GUI was TortoiseSVN on Windows but the various Tortoises for Git / Hg etc really blow (especially when your Windows machine is bogged down with a tonne of corporate malware)
<awilkins_> Best visual talk for Git : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ffBJ4sVUb4
<lornajane> I'm a vim/cli user with accessibility issues, so I have neither IDE nor GUI.  I will try all your suggestions though!
<bigcalm> ctrl-w on the wrong window again :(
<dutchie> lornajane: gitg is nice also
<lornajane> thanks dutchie, I'll add to the list!
<mappps> anyone have a nexus7 mine wont boot aggain grmpf
<awilkins_> I had that. I just had to leave it on charge for a while.
<dutchie> same
<awilkins_> Must find it and stick it on charge
<awilkins_> It's been logging into IRC on and off for 2 days
<awilkins_> It's stopped now :-)
<mappps> ive had it on charge for days
<mappps> i plugged it into the USB and the google logo came up then nothing and just the backlight
<mappps> when i plug it into the mains all i get is the backlight..was this the same with yours?
<mappps> grmpf
<daftykins> sounds aren't gonna fix it :P
<daftykins> if i remember the casing comes off easy and then you can reseat the battery connector too
<mappps> ive had this same issue befre tho and i thought it was power and vol hold them and it sorts it
<mappps> not managing to atm
<davmor2> mappps: try vol up and power
<mappps> whilst plugged in or?atm plugged into mains al that happens is backlight coms on
<mappps> unplug and press power backlight again..plug into usb on laptop and google logo comes on then just backlight
<intrbiz> Does Ubuntu Phone have any revenue generating OTT services for Canonical?
<popey> intrbiz: not something I'd imagine many people here to know
<diddledan_> I would hope so. without much revenue generation canonical can't carry-on producing awesomeness for free
<diddledan_> (I'm someone who actually thought the search integration in the dash generating revenue was a good move)
<bigcalm> popey: does the Amazon app do this?
<diddledan_> without income canonical can't carry-on paying our awesome popey to be awesome! :-p
<diddledan_> reboot needed methinks. brb
 * daftykins hands diddledan_ a handkerchief for his nose
<popey> bigcalm: which amazon app?
<diddledan_> daftykins: *sniffle*
<bigcalm> popey: the one that says "Amazon"
<bigcalm> Maybe it's just a link to the amazon.co.uk website
<popey> it is
<diddledan_> yey, php7 is due this year - many years late
<intrbiz> diddledan_: and what are the main features of php7?
<diddledan_> intrbiz: https://pages.zend.com/TY-Infographic.html
<diddledan_> intrbiz: spaceships!
<diddledan_> looks like speed is a prime goal too
<intrbiz> more and more static typing
<lornajane> PHP 7 will be fast.  It won't be strongly typed but there is much better type support
<lornajane> fast = execution times are less than half on all the benchmarks I've run so far.  We're not alpha yet but we almost are
<diddledan_> yeah the type hinting is just hinting - it's not strict
<intrbiz> lornajane: is it JIT or AOT ?
<lornajane> intrbiz: I think it's JIT ... I'm not an internals person though so don't quote me on that
<lornajane> our big problem is that all the extensions will need updating and they're not all maintained
<intrbiz> lornajane: need updating to support what?
<diddledan_> intrbiz: I believe there's minor breaking changes in internal datastructures
<intrbiz> lornajane: with a JITed runtime, is there now more of a move away from setup and tear down for each request?
<lornajane> intrbiz: we changed the way we count zvals, apparently.  I will need to know more about this as it's a bit all hands to the pump to get things sorted
<lornajane> intrbiz: I'm sorry, I can't answer that question
<lornajane> intrbiz: maybe https://wiki.php.net/phpng-int would answer some of your questions?
<diddledan_> I'm sure there'll be more info coming out closer to october too
<diddledan_> from the timeline it looks like the main features are locked-down now?
<lornajane> diddledan_: yep, pretty much.  Some minor tweaks but I'm expecting the first alpha within weeks
<diddledan_> yey.
<lornajane> the big question is whether we can ship and go stable in time for 16.04 :)  The long tail of very outdated PHP versions just gets longer and longer as far as I can tell
<diddledan_> aye
<lornajane> quality on PHP has increased beyond recognition over the last 5 years but I still don't think I'll be running 7.0 on any of my own live servers!
<diddledan_> I'm still running 5.3 (might even be 5.2 - it's not out of choice)
<lornajane> scary
<diddledan_> my own personal stuff though is nicely up-to-date :-p
<diddledan_> there's a specific issue with the webapp in my employer's co that for some reason makes it incompatible with later versions of php due to some interaction with sessions and the zend1 framework
<diddledan_> I don't understand the issue tbh
<lornajane> there are a few gotchas, I specialise in the upgrade/migration stuff and sometimes a codebase does need some changes before it's happy on a new version
<lornajane> I'm not clear yet what the impacts will be for upgrade to PHP 7, I think for userland it will mostly be easier than the PHP 4 to PHP 5 was
<diddledan_> I'm an advocate of keeping things up-to-date rather than letting it languish - the same webapp actually runs on gentoo which before I arrived at the company was completely unmaintained
<lornajane> and the 5.2 to 5.3 migration is almost as bad.  Since then though, the upgrade paths have got WAY better so it's pretty easy going
<intrbiz> it's usually less effort and lower risk to keep something upto date often than doing a large jump
<diddledan_> it annoys me somewhat that big projects (read: wordpress) haven't dropped support for older php versions because it legitimises running unmaintained (read: security patches) php
<lornajane> diddledan_: yes, that bothers me as well
<lornajane> I think wordpress has the best intentions but they are perpetuating a culture that says decade-old, insecure software is good enough for users
<lornajane> I don't think it is good enough
<diddledan_> I get their conundrum tho, because at least 1% of their userbase is still on 5.2 so that's a LOT of sites. the problem is the hosts those sites are on don't have any reason to upgrade because wordpress runs fine, and wordpress won't drop support because those hosts are still on 5.2.
<diddledan_> catch-22
<lornajane> yep, awkward.  I'm of the opinion that if a new version of wordpress required 5.5, that would be OK.  We're not taking away the ability of users to run existing code on existing hosts
<diddledan_> yeah I agree with that
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-27
<mapps> hm
<mapps> can get ajaxterm to work at all..had it working fine before;/
<diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN_CP4SuoTU
<knightwi1e> mornign
<diddledan_> allo
<nigelb> http://img.weburbanist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/rain-error-sun-404.jpg
<nigelb> This is in Seattle, but I couldn't help think of London :)
<knightwi1e> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , howarya
<MooDoo> ok ta matey, you?
<knightwise> doing ok, working from home the 5th day in a row .. going little cabin crazy
<MooDoo> yeah not surprised
<knightwise> especially since I have to pull the blinds in my home office against the glare of the sun (or I get a migraine)
<knightwise> so : darkness from 6 to 4 pm
<MooDoo> eeeek
 * knightwise remembers when he used to work in an office with hot chicks
<MooDoo> shall we start calling you knightwise-voldemort II due to your pale skin?
<knightwise> its not that bad , beloved sweety takes me outside enough.
<knightwise> just that working for this current client has meant having to direct co-workers
<knightwise> everything is done via mail or conf call
<knightwise> next project wil hopefully be a little more "social" :)
<MooDoo> do you contract, or is it part of your natural working life, depending on clients?
<knightwise> I'm a freelancer. work on long term contracts for clients
<knightwise> this is my first gig , been doing it for allmost a year now
<MooDoo> nice
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<diplo> How are we on this fine spring morning
<knightwise> friday ... always a good thing :)
<knightwise> watching some old belgian tv shows on youtube while drawing up some reports
<diplo> Watching and drawing up reports, are you not telling us something knightwise ?
<zmoylan-pi> the start of war of the worlds were the martians slowly and surely drew their plans? :-)
<knightwise> Lol :)
<knightwise> just multitasking a little
<Myrtti> watching twitch, downloading wedding photos
<Myrtti> coffee and cranberry juice
<knightwise> hmmm
<knightwise> looking at a video for the aquarius
<knightwise> i ordered one yesterday
<knightwise> looks ... Alien ...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy World Theatre Day! :-D
<diddledan_> \o/
<diddledan_> so putting my mobile phone near to a usb3 cable causes the device on the end of that cable to flap
<diddledan_> methinks there's some interference induced
<knightwise> diddledan_: quite possible
<diddledan_> I remember the mess an incoming call caused on my old CRT back in the 90s
<diddledan_> and on my sound system
<diddledan_> wireless comms really are a pain
<zmoylan-pi> all those early gsm phones near speakers *di du di, di du di, di du di, di du di*
<popey> http://imgur.com/Cwma0Kf
<diddledan_> eek
<diddledan_> the problem is it actually looks like a birth defect
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan_> ello bobo
<diddledan_> that's my new name for you :-p
<awilkins> Mine still does the dit duh duh dit duh duh thing
<diddledan_> dit dit dit. dit dah dit dit.
<diddledan_> (HP)
<diddledan_> no that's not HP
<diddledan_> I suck
<zmoylan-pi> i sometimes wish i knew morse in case it's trying to tell me something :-)
<diddledan_> it's S something
<diddledan_> I only know S and O
<diddledan_> I could do binary communication using just S and O though
<diddledan_> what do you mean three times the bandwidth?!
<diplo> Anyone know of any CMS documentation software that looks/works out of the box like this https://advanced-python.readthedocs.org/en/latest/fabric.html
<diplo> ?
<diplo> I've looked at running wiki's and other CMS's but I don't want to spend time settign them up to look and work like this
<diplo> But that's the sort of thing I'm after :)
<diplo> <--- Lazy :P
<diddledan_> the link on the footer points to http://sphinx-doc.org/
<diplo> And popey, after trying to look at touch and stuff related to it and posts on discource and irc channels has anyone thought of using a voting system to see what the users would like to see implemented on it, sure there used to be something for one project years ago
<diplo> A bit like http://feedback.azure.com
<diddledan_> the theme used on that page is available at https://github.com/snide/sphinx_rtd_theme
<diplo> Yeah that's for formatting the docs diddledan_ :)
<diplo> Well that's how I read it
<diplo> github is being ddos'd :(
<diddledan_> it is?
<diplo> https://status.github.com/messages
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan_> ello
<bashrc_> morning
<diplo> diddledan_: I was wrong about that spinx stuff, just need to read it better
<diplo> Have some test pages up already, taking a bit of getting used to :)
<ChloeWolfieGirl2> I saw in Manchester most of the displays around arndale run windows, pls fix popey
 * diddledan_ fixes popey 
<ChloeWolfieGirl2> haha xD
 * DJones remembers the time he had the dog "fixed", walked with a limp and wouldn't look at me for days
<DJones> Hope you washed your hands diddledan_
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> yey, payday
<diddledan_> or should that be: yaypayday
<diddledan_> money hasn't hit my account yet tho
<ChloeWolfieGirl2> oh gosh, I... I'm sorry popey
<TwistedLucidity> ChloeWolfieGirl2: Fix? No, leave 'em. Probably running Windows XP. Oh...the fun that could be had...
<diddledan_> sainsburys' customer service machines on the front desk run xp
<diddledan_> I notice that every time I walk past on my way out of the shop
<ChloeWolfieGirl2> diddledan_: that's a place you shouldn't use a credit card then?
<awilkins> So many ATMs running Windows 2000
<awilkins> From 2009 : http://www.jeremias-maerki.ch/wordpress/2009/11/09/atm-hanging-at-startup/
<awilkins> What's the bet it's still running Win2k now in 2015 ?
<shauno> we have nuclear submarines running win2000, and we're worried about ATMs?
 * awilkins remembers "Windows for Warships"  (Windows NT 3.51)
<awilkins> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/02/windows_for_war_1.html
<awilkins> The power of "default"
<awilkins> My boss insisting that we have a time-tracking system. And that we fill our timesheets in as Excel workbooks.
<awilkins> Spent half a day confirming that you can use a VBA macro to merge sheets into a single book
<awilkins> It takes me about 20 minutes to set up a working Redmine server.
<shauno> sad thing is what became 'windows for warships' was the kind of scenario that looks like a shoe-in for linux - trying to modernize a sparc/solaris stack
<diddledan_> lol @ the raptor breaking when crossing the dateline
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: Hardly going to be networked to the wider world.
 * TwistedLucidity thinks of Battlestar Galactica
<diddledan_> TwistedLucidity: until they need to calculate trajectories
<diddledan_> TwistedLucidity: then they'll need to network things to get the extra compute power
<TwistedLucidity> I WILL NOT HAVE NETWORKED COMPUTERS ON MY SHIP!
<diddledan_> TwistedLucidity: and it's at that moment that the cylons will decide to attack, obv
<diddledan_> I loved that show
<diddledan_> I was all emotional with the epic storytelling of the final episode
<TwistedLucidity> I did until season three. I have never forgiven them for how they ended it
<diddledan_> season three was the one during the writers' strike iirc?
<TwistedLucidity> Think so. But it was fairly obvious they had no clear story-arc mid-season two.
<TwistedLucidity> And then that ending. What utter tripe.
<TwistedLucidity> It would have almost been better if Adama woke up in his bed and it had all been a dream.
<diddledan_> I kinda wish that caprica was given more of a chance
<TwistedLucidity> Indeed
<Stass_> http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
<Stass_>  leaves
<diddledan_> was that an attempted trolling?
<diddledan_> I think it's akin to viruses that helpfully patch the hole they enter through
<Myrtti> oh, it's that person
<safiyyah> Hi all, want to get a wireless adapter for my desktop, any advice?
<Myrtti> get one that does 5GHz
<safiyyah> I just had virgin media fix me a line and well I do not want them wiring across my fireplace, so I need a wireless one
<safiyyah> Myrtti, will any go
<foobarry> or powerline adapters ;)
<Myrtti> well of course if your box doesn't do 5GHz then there's no sense in getting a Wifi card that does it
<Myrtti> well, actually, I lied
<Myrtti> it's a good idea to get one even if the box doesn't do it.
<Myrtti> and you have to check if the card/adapter does 5GHz, I don't think all of them do yet
<safiyyah> Myrtti, do I get the USB or can I get a card that slots in the motherboard
<Myrtti> safiyyah: "it's up to you and your computer"
<safiyyah> I want  card, what is it called?
<bigcalm> safiyyah: Look at Edimax USB wifi adaptors. Edimax are well supported in Linux
<bigcalm> If you've only just got the line installed by VirginMedia, the modem they have installed will give you both 2.4ghz and 5ghz access points
<bigcalm> But if you want a card to put in side your machine, the term is PCI
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, I was just about to big-up the Edimax cards and suggest they get a new router (VMs is horrid). But they've gone.
 * bashrc_ owns edimax hardware
<bashrc_> the edimax wifi adapters were a good investment. I've been using PCI/usb ones for years
<diddledan_> I find it interesting that serial was the only communication available in the distant past then came along parallel upping speeds drastically and now we're back on serial for everything again
<diddledan_> parallel meant thick cables tho so I guess theres that
<shauno> parallel is still faster, but harder and harder to do at speed
<shauno> just the whole physics of getting each lane to arrive at exactly the same time.  the faster you go, the more precise that has to be
<diddledan_> then of course you get weird hybrids ala pci-e
<zmoylan-pi> it all went pear shaped after isa :-D
<shauno> it's pretty much just been out-moored. it's easier to brute more speed out of serial than to finesse more accuracy out of parallel
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: the agp was pretty much a stupid idea
<diddledan_> i.e. why limit it to just gfx?!
<zmoylan-pi> and vl bus
<diddledan_> then there's 64bit isa
<diddledan_> that's the really long server varient
<diddledan_> designed specifically for raid cards methink?
<zmoylan-pi> my first hard card was on a full lenght 8 bit isa connected daughter board. and the hard disk was on opposite end away from pc blanking plate so it wobbled something terrible if you so much as sneezed near it
<diddledan_> ours was pretty snug
<diddledan_> it was the whole width of the case tho
<diddledan_> i.e. it went from the right to the left of the case rather than back to front like more modern systems
<zmoylan-pi> this one was about 3" too short to connect with opposite side of case as it was a weird shaped pc compatible
<diddledan_> heh
<diddledan_> mine was an alan sugar special
<diddledan_> AMSTRAD PC1512 (google it!)
<zmoylan-pi> so wobbly hard drive was suspended wobbling constantly over expensive motherboard which inspired confidence
<diddledan_> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> my first experience with pcs was an amstrad 1512.  crap but cheap
<shauno> reminds me of how I killed my 386.  but I'd taken the drive apart and dettached the platter before powering it up.  so I kinda deserved it
<diddledan_> err
<diddledan_> how did it fail (in what manner)?
<shauno> death by shaun?
<diddledan_> lol
<shauno> I can't remember what killed the drive.  but I wanted to see how fast it spins, powered it up, and it shinobi'd itself straight accross the mobo
<diddledan_> you really aren't very good with computers staying in one piece are you?
<shauno> computers aren't meant to stay in one piece.  they're delivered in parts for a reason
<zmoylan-pi> i once destroyed a very expensive esdi drive of about 200mb by wiring it up the right way.  made a funny popping noise as it powered up, spun up, faster and faster and faster till it popped and then stopped forever
<diddledan_> >.<
<diddledan_> the right way or the "right" way?
<zmoylan-pi> my boss gave out to me till he saw i had wired it up correctly whereas he had accidently got it working by wiring it up wrong as we had been sent the wrong cables
<diddledan_> so it was his fault?
<zmoylan-pi> no, it was the suppliers fault. i had merely done the right thing tidying up his work after he had spent a week setting up a novel server
<diddledan_> methinks the extra L is important for correct pronunciation
<diddledan_> novel vs novell
<zmoylan-pi> whoops, sorry yes
<diddledan_> well I guess it was novel that he got it going with a wonky wiring
<zmoylan-pi> it was late and he was tired and he got it wrong which was we found the way it was supposed to be :-)
<zmoylan-pi> typing all the known bad sectors into novell to prepare a new drive was fun back then
<diddledan_> it's crazy that we had to do things like that
<zmoylan-pi> and then run ?compsurf to check afterwards and hope you didn't get an abend error
<zmoylan-pi> we'd come back after a weekend run to find the abnormal end error and have to start it all over again
<diddledan_> brb, reboob
<zmoylan-pi> 0o
<diddledan_> back again - nothing happened I see
<ujjain> will opening a stock isa somewhere give me restrictions?
<diddledan_> I would go with PCI or better PCI-e
<ujjain> I'm planning to open a axa self investotr, but not sure if choosing the wrong platform would be a big deal, even though the exit fee is 0
<foobarry> ujjain: try moneysavingexpert web site
<TwistedLucidity> Didn't the recent budget change some of the tax rules on savings accounts?
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> the y announced it, dunno when it applies from
<diddledan_> nice. working long hours pays off when you're on an hourly/daily rate :-p
<diddledan_> 48 hour week this week . lots of money :-D
<ali1234> did that origami unicorn g+ post just get deleted because of the rather inappropriate picutre it contained?
<ali1234> no, google just hid it for some reason
<diddledan_> o_O
<Banana_> i have problems installing drivers for my graphics card via the intel graphnics installer for linux. It fails on installing packages.
<directhex> Banana_: file a bug with intel, they'll forward it to the guy who makes the installer
<Banana_> it wont let me install drivers... it says the follow packahes have unmet dependencies
<Banana_> and at the end it says it is a virtual package
<Banana_> is there a another method to install intel drivers on ubuntu?
<directhex> Banana_: what's the problem with the ones installed by default?
<Banana_> i was full support
<Banana_> i mean i want full support
<Banana_> as in i want all the drivers
<directhex> um
<directhex> the only difference between the intel driver in ubuntu and the intel driver via the installer is possibly (but not always) the intel download is a bit newer
<directhex> there's no actual feature difference
<Banana_> okay, one more things, when i try to install some things i sometimes get this E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
<davmor2> bigcalm: how's the spy camera?
<directhex> Banana_: "apt-get -f install" should fix those cases
<Banana_> do i put apt-get -f install in terminal or do i put the program name in after install and than press enter?
<directhex> just "apt-get -f install"
<Banana_> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied) E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
<directhex> it will likely propose removing whichever broken package you suggested installing
<directhex> sigh.
<davmor2> Banana_: sudo apt-get -f install
<directhex> stick sudo at the start. sysadmin tasks need to be done as root
<Banana_> oh
<Banana_> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable) E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
<directhex> are you running a package install in another window?
<Banana_> no, i only have one terminal running
<davmor2> Banana_: do you have Software Center open too?
<Banana_> no, i dont have software center running.
<Banana_> i have firewall ?
<Banana_> hey i fixed it
<Banana_> i installed it
<davmor2> \o/
<Banana_> Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree        Reading state information... Done 0 to upgrade, 0 to newly install, 0 to remove and 15 not to upgrade.
<Banana_> right?
<Banana_> should i install the package
<Banana_> now
<directhex> which package?
<Banana_> nevermind, i still have the same problem
<Banana_> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
<Banana_> i hardly can install packages because most of the time that shows uo
<directhex> it shows up because your package database is currently broken
<directhex> and you aren't fixing it
<directhex> let's give this another go. although i'm well beyond my usual limit.
<directhex> what does "ps | grep dpkg" say? that'll tell you if the package manager is already running, which it seems to think it is
<Banana_> in terminal
<Banana_> do i do that in terminal
<elfy> yes
<Banana_> nothing shows up
<directhex> ok, good.
<directhex> and "sudo apt-get -f install" ?
<Banana_> Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree        Reading state information... Done 0 to upgrade, 0 to newly install, 0 to remove and 15 not to upgrade.
<directhex> "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"?
<Banana_> Install these packages without verification? [y/N]
<directhex> which packages?
<Banana_> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<Banana_> do i
<ChloeWolfieGirl> EH I got a desktop today, and I've been trying to get it to work, I removed the battery and put it on to make it power up via the power button, its plugged in, on board graphics removed the off board graphics card, and it shows No Signal, it doesn't say anything about BIOS or my live disk, just No Signal, I've searched on google and just get answers for dual monitors with windows, and I honestly don't know what
<ChloeWolfieGirl> I'm doing anymore! xD ;-;
<Banana_> do desktops have batterys?
<directhex> Banana_: you don't know this stuff well enough to know which info is essential and which is not, so assume everything is. use paste.ubuntu.com and give us the url
<Banana_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10691279/
<directhex> Banana_: a watch battery is used to save BIOS settings
<Banana_> a watch battery? you mean those small cycle type
<directhex> Banana_: ok, i think "Y" is okay here.
<ali1234> why can't they be verified?
<directhex> they'll be coming fro the 01 repo, which is broken somehow for this user
<shauno> he said he was trying to upgrade his intel drivers.  they look suspiciously related to this
<Banana_> i installed it
<ali1234> 01 repo?
<directhex> 01.org is intel's foss hub
<ali1234> oh. and they don't sign their packages?
<Banana_> no no, eh i think i didnt make myself clear but you said they look suspiciously related to this so i think it will work
<Banana_> i said i have a another problems with installing things in terms of 'sudo thingy'
<Banana_> god my grammar is bad, it always say e: you have broken packages
<Banana_> most of the time
<Banana_> like this -:> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages
<Banana_> but you did say this problem may link to the reason why i cant install intel packages
<Banana_> did i make myself clear did i confuse you lot
<mapps> finally got a collection card
<mapps> now just hav o get it on monday
<mapps> *to
<elfy> Banana_: did the not being able to install anything come first?
<elfy> do you have a load of odd ppa's?
<elfy> you'd certainly need to deal with the broken packages before you can even think about installing this intel stuff
<mapps> i couldve got it today but they posted it to the wrong mailbox
<mapps> grrr
<elfy> mapps: yea but anticipation :)
<elfy> I was pleased to get the nexus thingy - got that for testing stuff, need to catch up with popey at some point
<mapps> hopefully...my nexus7 is charging
<mapps> its a REAL PAIN everytime i let it run down completely
<mapps> didn't mean to forgot to check it
 * elfy had an odd just telling me the date thing the other day
<mapps> ilets see how much it charged
<mapps> just cant get proxypass t work
<bashrc> are you on nginx?
<mapps> nope apache
<mapps> i've got qwebirc on http://127.0.0.1:9090 -external host http://parrots.zapto.org - using a ProxyPass and PorxyPassReverse to http;//parrots.zapto.org/newtest
<mapps> BUT it doesn't work right..if you view the source you can see it's loading something but not properly;/
<mapps> any idea on what i could be doing wrong..if you lad the newtest link youll see what i mean
<mapps> stuck or ideas ..qwebirc loads fine loading it locally i just want to make it accesible via main web server using proxypass
<bashrc> I had a lot of trouble with apache - especially performance and proxying. nginx was a easier
<mapps> i had it working before;/
<shauno> what are you seeing in view-source?  can you paste that somewhere?
<mapps> just the html
<mapps> where it tries to load the css etc
<mapps> its the qwebirc page but sec
<mapps> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10691746
<mapps> theres what /newtest has as view source which is the main page for qweb irc which would be shown when going to localhost:9090
<intrbiz> mapps: ProxyPassReverse doesn't edit any of the page content
<mapps> and it works fine accessing localhost:9090 i just ant it proxied so i can access it via normal web site
<intrbiz> ProxyPassReverse merely edits Location headers
<mapps> i didnt say it did..didt mean to if i did
<shauno> hm, this where it's trying to fire the js .. "baseURL":"http://parrots.zapto.org:9090"
<mapps> should i not be doing it how i was trying? I had PoryxPass /newtest http://localhost:9090
<mapps> proxypassreverse /ewtest
<shauno> that likely doesn't work.  you might want to see if you can set baseURL to just http://parrots.zapto.org/ in the config somewhere?
<mapps> ya thats BaseURL in config.py should that be localhost:9090 then?!
<mapps> i did and that didn't work shauno ;(
<intrbiz> mapps: those two lines are have you need for proxying
<mapps> localhost:9090 is how you'd access it locally
<intrbiz> mapps: looks like you base url in the config should be your external url
<shauno> I'm only assuming, but I think that should be an address accessible from outside the proxy
<mapps> hmm
<intrbiz> if you need the proxy to alter things like that, you need to use mod_substitute
<mapps> i tried that..i tried http://parrots.zapto.org/qweb/ - where qweb is the folder in /var/www that has qweb src - is that what you mean?
<shauno> if you have a proxypass for /qweb too :)
<intrbiz> probably
<mapps> hmm i need a proxypass for qweb too? hm lets see
<mapps> http://parrots.zapto.org/newtest external url localhost:9090 on the fs /var/www/qweb where the files are O_O
<mapps> so i need to set baseurl to /qweb intrbiz do i need a proxypass for qweb?
<shauno> I think what I'd do, is open chrome, open the web inspector, and go to the 'network' tab
<mapps> yea
<shauno> then try to load the page, and look for all the red entries in list of network resources.  and figure out why your proxy config isn't routing those requests to the right place
<shauno> because I suspect that's what's going on .. if the script tries to load something from /qweb/, and you only have /newtest as a proxy route, /qweb doesn't exist externally
<mapps> ok:)
<mapps> lets see if i can fix it
<mapps> ye
<mapps> i see
<shauno> (or if it's still writing the port number into requests, or blah blah blah)
<mapps> hm
<mapps> felt a lot easier before;0
<shauno> it always feels easier when it works :)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-28
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<elfy> morning
<brobostigon> morning elfy
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Anybody here managed to get landscape working? My clients just complain that they can't contact the server when trying to register
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> popey: come fix my landscape woes :) PyCurlError: Error 60: server certificate verification failed. CAfile: /etc/landscape/landscape_server_ca.crt CRLfile: none
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10694385/
<bigcalm> Fixed it by copying the correct SSL cert to the client machines
<mappps> gah
<mappps> pesky proxypass still not working right
<masterclass> hi
<masterclass_> yolo
<mappps> hm
<popey> bigcalm: yay
<bigcalm> popey: the web interface takes a bit of getting used to
<bigcalm> Now wondering if I should put my workstation and laptop onto landscape. Maybe not
<popey> :)
<popey> I added all my machines to it
<bigcalm> How come landscape is only in a ppa and not in the main repos?
<popey> the client is in the repo isn't it?
<bigcalm> Yes, it is
<bigcalm> But not the server
<popey> dunno
<popey> guess the usual reasons...
<popey> release timelines don't line up
<bigcalm> I guess Canonical want there to be more chance of a new customer than finding the free offering
<bigcalm> It's fine by me
<popey> well the free thing is fairly recent
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> it's been around a long time
<bigcalm> That's why I've not paid attention to it before
<bigcalm> Hayley is home, time to spend some time with her :)
<foobarry> landscape is free now?
<popey> foobarry: http://askubuntu.com/questions/549809/how-do-i-install-landscape-for-personal-use
<foobarry> ok still need to buy the paid support thing for commerical and edu's
<popey> \o/ Pebble Time.
<shauno> I don't want to admit how long this has taken me, but I'm proud of myself :)  http://i.imgur.com/cxnn7Cw.png
<daftykins> is this for the Pi?
<daftykins> ah yeah, look at you and your hostnames ;)
<shauno> yeah.  trying to replace volumio because the more I try to change, the more it scares me
<shauno> so I'm trying to replace their persistent php workers with a flask thingie to expose mpd via json
<shauno> (and yes, hostname all the things.  the answer to 'how am I meant to remember an ipv6 address')
<daftykins> :)
<penguin42> shauno: hex in words
<shauno> I prefer my solution :)
<daftykins> hmm, in lieu of milk i'm trying cadbury's chocolate powder in hot water
<daftykins> ... yeah no.
<crepple> daftykins You should have got coffee mate for emergencies :)
<daftykins> what's that?
<crepple> It's akind of powdered milk that actually tastes like cream and tastes just about ok in coffee
<crepple> On sale in the UK
<daftykins> ah-har
<crepple> Not in the USA I guess
<daftykins> i do vaguely remember my parents having a jar, but didn't know what it was
<crepple> I think they must have it in the USA cos it's a Nestle product (I think)
<crepple> I'm in the UK channel I just noticed - Facepalm - for some reason I thought you were over the pond
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ah i can double bluff, i'm down on the fine isle of Guernsey as it goes
<crepple> If I had a Teleporter I'd send some over, as long as you didn't mind a rival Island milk (Jersey)
<daftykins> haha, oh my
<daftykins> the Guernsey Golds would never speak to me again!
<crepple> ~It's funny - no Guernsey stereotypes come to mind. Wight is "full of Yacht club groupies" and Jersey is "full of Tax cheats" but Guernsey...
<daftykins> just a bunch o' donkeys, us :>
<daftykins> how about the Isle o' Man? a friends been sent there for work, place shuts up silent as of 9pm so i hear
<crepple> daftykins yeah i heard that. like living in 1973 :)
<daftykins> was that what the 70s were like? :D
<crepple> yeah and i was there
<crepple> well it was like that in Gloucestershire
<crepple> I guess london was always 24/7
<daftykins> from what i hear, the 70s had a lot of driving around seatbelt free under the influence over here
<crepple> daftykins thereâs a lot of truth in that
<crepple> ludicrous as it sounds now, people doubted alcohol seriously impaired driving ability
<crepple> Mind you, many more doubted smoking caused cancer
<crepple> We knew the earth was round though :)
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> but did the sun revolve around it? ;)
<ali1234> did people really doubt that alcohol impaired driving?
<daftykins> they were probably too busy out on the lash to worry
<ali1234> i can understand doubting smoking and cancer because that takes a long time
<crepple> ali1234 I don't know whether they did or whether it was just about still plausibly deniable
<daftykins> and non-smokers still get lung cancer, too
<crepple> Probably the latter was more common
<ali1234> but the effects of alcohol happen pretty much immediately and have been well known for thousands of years...
<crepple> ali1234 What I can say is, the police didn't take drink driving very seriously then, it was on a par with a parking offence, maybe a little more serious
<ali1234> yeah, that i can believe
<crepple> Then again, our parents thought it was fine to let us out at 9am on Saturday morning and not hear from us again till we wandered back around 5pm for tea. We could wander over the hills, climb trees, wade in streams. No one was expected to make a phone call to their parents. British culture has changed enormously over that time..
<crepple> God I'm rambling
<ali1234> i think that is still true for a large section of the population
<ali1234> except the part about hills and trees because everyone lives in cities now
<daftykins> do they even still go out in the great out doors or are they inside glued to smartphones they've been bought, sending hundreds of messages per hour? :)
<daftykins> oops outdoors
<ali1234> but you'd have to be a hundred years old to remember when anyone but retired people and farmers lived in villages
<crepple> ali1234 Yeah. Funny thing is, I was thinking back. It was really good fun.
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-29
<crepple> ali1234 We were the kids of farmers and farm workers. Like I said it probably wasn't anything like that in London
<ali1234> fair enough
<daftykins> crepple: what took you down to Jersey then? :)
<crepple> Now you kow I'm a bumpkin :)
<crepple> daftykins haha
<daftykins> you don't get as sheltered as me, born and bred rock dweller
<crepple> daftykins Do you have the usual UK ISPs down on the Island?
<daftykins> no sir, #1 telco was Guernsey Telecoms years ago, which then got bought by Cable and Wireless
<daftykins> a while back they rebranded to 'Sure' and were bought most recently by a Bahraini company
<crepple> I know they have terrible coverage on Man
<crepple> Mind you we only just got Fibre here in Worcestershire
<daftykins> we also have local reps of Jersey Telecom that operate a second telco - and also an Indian Firm i think operating as 'Airtel Vodafone'
<crepple> It's an interesting setup then
<daftykins> so that's the main 3 mobile providers, with Sure and JT providing landline + broadband services too
<daftykins> but Sure have all the exchanges so the others only provide services through them, so to speak
<daftykins> right now we have 20Mb down 1Mb up ADSL2+ and 40 down 5 up VDSL2+ across the island
<crepple> Do you have 4G? We don't, not really, allegedly we do but we don't
<penguin42> daftykins: What does the VDSL2 actually get?
<daftykins> penguin42: you mean real world download? gets the full 4MB/sec just fine
<daftykins> in fact my phone line syncs at 50/20
<crepple> It's still copper but using it better I think, right daftykins?
<penguin42> daftykins: Interesting, I know a lot of VDSL users on the mainland who never get anywhere near the full rate
<daftykins> probably bad internal phone wiring i'd think in the most case
<daftykins> crepple: yeah, copper on the last stretch but might be fibre backed
<penguin42> daftykins: I know someone getting 10MB down/1MB up - no it's not internal, it's external the existing road wiring and distance from the fibre termination points
<daftykins> i think most runs are just short enough to the exchanges to be a decent speed without any roadside cabinet shenanigans
<daftykins> penguin42: ah that's unlucky
<daftykins> i wonder if they live in one of those nasty areas with copper coated aluminium lines
<penguin42> daftykins: No, it's just crap BT installations
<penguin42> not sure if it's CCA or not
<ali1234> i get 1MB down and 0.1MB up
<ali1234> on ADSL2+
<penguin42> ali1234: What is that? Smoke signals?!
<daftykins> ouch!
<daftykins> how do you cope? i'd move :P
<crepple> We get 76mb/s according to BT, but right here, going into my computer varies between 40 and 55
<ali1234> and it's not my internal wiring either
<ali1234> because i disconnected it all to test
<ali1234> i just don't have any great need for high speed internet
<daftykins> what's amazing is Jersey used to be ahead of us, but now we have FUP free services and they're lagging behind
<daftykins> with all kinds of extra charges for data usage in peak rate hours
<crepple> ali1234 I used to think that, but then I ditched Sky and started relying on IP tv services and I probably do now
<ali1234> according to the BT estimate i "should" get 2MB down and 0.5MB up
<ali1234> 1MB is enough for streaming video
<daftykins> so 20/5 megabits?
<ali1234> right
<crepple> ali1234 Yeah I guess, but there are five people living here (we can't get the kids out)
<daftykins> i can barely tolerate sharing with myself
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> i only watch tv and films when they are on freeview
<crepple> It is nice to be able to download distros in a few minutes - it's made me into a distro hopper of sorts.
<crepple> ali1234 I'm not really the TV watcher. My extravagance is a Pure Contour WiFi radio
<daftykins> cor yeah i used to hoard downloads on my file server all the time, now i just go straight online
<daftykins> unless i already have them of course, i don't hit mirrors repeatedly for the same ISOs :>
<ali1234> i actually do that
<shauno> 150meg and I'm still a hoarder :/
<ali1234> i always have to delete ISOs and then end up downloading them again
<daftykins> shauno: :D
 * daftykins looks at the 10TB RAID
<daftykins> in many ways i see my setup as a legacy from the pre-netflix (and its' ilk) era
<crepple> shauno ali1234 I'm somewhere in the middle. I save the ones I like. I wanted to try Unity Linux but by the time I got around to it, it's dormant - shame - it's a nice idea
<shauno> nice ideas don't make distros .. the ability to herd cats makes distros
<crepple> shauno Funny you should say that. An awful lot of stuff doesn't really work in Unity. You'd have to be alot more of a tinkerer than me to live with it
<crepple> That's why I stick with the Debian branches, they are very reliable
<daftykins> i just don't understand how you find the programs if you don't know their names
<daftykins> the rare times i'm in a unity live session, i feel like i'm in Windows with the Super+R run dialogue box, not knowing the executable names
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Linux
<ali1234> not unity desktop
<daftykins> but i've not touched it much to know
<daftykins> oh
<ali1234> and not the 3d engine either
<ali1234> but i do agree
<daftykins> my bad :D
<crepple> daftykins Ah sorry. I meant Unity Linux - based on Mageia - it's another distro - maybe Ubuntu stamped on them for using that name LOL
<daftykins> the game engine but is always confusing me too
<daftykins> so that's 3 things with the same name D:
<ali1234> there are some more
<crepple> there was a 70s Jazz group with that name too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globe_Unity_Orchestra - I liked them :)
<crepple> Ok that's a bit of stretch. They only had Unity in their name :)
<ali1234> hehe this is proper crazy jazz
<ali1234> is that guy screaming into a piano?
<shauno> I don't see anyone screaming on the wiki page?
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uMhfDPDjKU
<daftykins> Ray Charles in the Blues Brothers: I'll sell you boys this piano for $1,500... hell i'm so nice, i'll throw in the black keys for free!
<ali1234> 2 minutes in
<daftykins> that's an impressive horn
<shauno> I wonder if he's plucking the strings or such?
<ali1234> no, he's just yelling
<shauno> it does look like he's been hit with sea sickness though.  odd one.  I think that's a little too "free" for me :)
<ali1234> later he starts hitting all the keys with a plank
<crepple> Some very famous jazzers started their
<shauno> the sax solo at 3:14 is 'interesting' too
<daftykins> wow, i've not heard one redeeming note yet
<ali1234> this is the type of jazz that people think of when they say they don't like jazz
<shauno> hm, usually I'd be thinking of 'hold music' in such a context
<crepple> ali1234 that's true - I think there's adirect line from their to lightning bolt
<daftykins> if you used this as hold music, you'd never get any calls
 * daftykins takes notes
<shauno> I'm still not sure if that was meant to be a solo, or if everyone else just stopped to stare
<crepple> daftykins it's real Marmite stuff I know. No conventional musical structure at all. Punk was quite traditional by comparison
<daftykins> i love my dads comments on Punk "why do they seem in such a hurry to get the song over?"
<crepple> I hold my hands up and admit I like some very challenging music :)
<crepple> I like Otis Redding too though :)
<daftykins> hmm at 6:15 he's beating all the keys on the piano with a large block of wood
<shauno> well, that was interesting.  it made Screamin' Jay Hawkins look .. normal
<crepple> Nowadays I'm more into Theo Parrish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nKzRhhMlaQ I've evolved :)
<daftykins> i've stopped at 8:06
<daftykins> trying now...
<daftykins> i'll say one thing for Globe Unity... my cat didn't leave the room
<ali1234> well speaking of challenging music, today i discovered The Hell. it's far too profane to even link here. but one of the songs contains the genius lines "if you want my last rolo / me and you go solo / this ain't no turkish delight / let's fight"
<crepple> My dog has, but I know she'd gone to bed. She always goes up around this time
<crepple> ali1234 that is clever
<crepple> daftykins See you thought we were all into flower power back then :)
<daftykins> ah my parents were much into the metal scene, so i didn't even encounter that side of it
<ali1234> oh this is a song from 2014
<crepple> The closest I got to metal was Cream and The Velvets heavy period
<crepple> Jimi Hendrix isn't really metal is he? I was really into his stuff
<ali1234> it's even funnier that they're making incredibly dated references to 80s advert campaigns that most of their audience have never heard of
<daftykins> i always found genre pigeon holing tough :D
<daftykins> holing 0o holeing? i don't even...
<ali1234> metal didn't really exist back then... those guys kind of invented it
<crepple> Talking of new things. I discovered Darktable and Xara Xtreme today. Are those apps highlighted in the software centre? They should be. I don't see the SC very often. I regressed to xfce
<ali1234> darktable is
<crepple> That's good. It's so good at what it does.
<daftykins> what are these? :)
<crepple> And I'm sorry to say but Xara is better than Inkscape, in most ways. Nothing is better in every way of course.
<crepple> Graphics apps
<daftykins> ah
<penguin42> crepple: Does Xara still work?
<penguin42> it's years since I've heard of it
<crepple> Yeah
<penguin42> I think the code was originally from Artworks on the Archimedes wasn't it?
<penguin42> or at least the guys who did it
<crepple> Might well be
<crepple> It's very new to me
<penguin42> it's been around for decades but never really looked finished to me
<crepple> I suppose something is good if it does what you need at the time. So it was good for me
<crepple> I was just reading the history penguin42 - I think you're right
<penguin42> crepple: Artworks was pretty incredible for pretty graphical stuff - lots of fine shading etc on vector designs;
<crepple> penguin42 it's dispiriting in one way. It hasn't been updated since 2008 and yet the tracing is so much better than Inkscape; it really shouldn't be
<penguin42> crepple: The guys who did it were pretty good, I guess if you can figure out the algorithm and port to inkscape a lot of people would be happy
<daftykins> :D
<crepple> penguin42 I'd like that. I feel an affinity to Inkscape. I donated to them once or twice
<daftykins> argh here we are one hour ahead now, clocks changed
<shauno> oh sneaky beggars
<crepple> Damn. I forgot that. I really ought to go to bed.
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> g'night sir o/
<crepple> Goodnight
<zmoylan-pi> early start changing all the clocks around the house.. :-)
<shauno> nah.  that's for stuff that worship at the temple of old & crusty.  I don't have anything that doesn't do itself :)
<daftykins> i have a fridge and an oven that most likely will be disagreeing
<daftykins> somehow the fridge always races ahead in only a week, too
<shauno> why on earth does your fridge have a clock?
<daftykins> yeah, i wondered that
<daftykins> worse yet, i was there late at night once and saw it actually marquee scrolling the date
<daftykins> which as i'd never seen it had one, was set to 1980
<zmoylan-pi> i have an old vcr that i haven't disposed off yet that gets the date and time from teletext.  however it checks once a week at 12am.  so it's wrong for a week when the clocks shift
<penguin42> it gets it from teletext ? You've still got teletext?
<daftykins> yeah isn't that all dead?
<zmoylan-pi> no, when i bought it 15+ years ago it did.  no analog signal here anymore.  haven't had a tv to connect it to for about 5 years
<zmoylan-pi> i do miss teletext though as it was a fairly decent service
<zmoylan-pi> lots of information onhand for no datacharges
<daftykins> i used to hate the way you'd pick a page and it seemed to always hit the one after, then take a while to cycle through the 100 again :>
<penguin42> yes and it was much more per page than the current system
<daftykins> remember those "infobursts" they used to broadcast at the end of programs, especially nature ones? :)
<zmoylan-pi> and hoping your freezeframe of it would be readable
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> head cleaning tapes at the ready
<zmoylan-pi> or finding someone has taped over the last few minutes of a show...
<daftykins> i bet my old man would still be trying to record films now if they had things wired up right
<penguin42> I think my dad still does
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> a proper top loading 80s vcr? :-)
<daftykins> my parents early JVC was a formidable thing, i can still hear its' series of noises as it went through the motions of most commands
<daftykins> probably still working today too
<shauno> still banging on this api thing.  having no idea what I'm going isn't always a good thing :/
<daftykins> you can do it!
<shauno> I've finally got to the point where it loads the playlist into a page.  and clicking on a track plays it.
<shauno> I woudl say 'baby steps', but thanks to the current obsession with getting 'code' into schools, even toddlers laugh at my attempts at python
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> don't worry, if you knew my coding experience you'd cry blood tears
<shauno> hm.  I'm blaming the time change for it being 5am
<mappps> hi all
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> shauno: totally
<daftykins> saw it at 1am but they can prove nothing!
<mapps> still not got this proxypass working
<mapps> and i really dont see why..ive read the mod_proxy and proxypass pages
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dr96kfthy2iqyx1/TheBluesBrothers.mkv?dl=0
<mapps> http://parrots.zapto.org is the site .. qwebirc running on the same host on 9090 localhost:9090 - setup a ProxyPass /qweb http:/localhost:9090 and also ProxyPassReverse /qweb http://localhost:9090
<mapps> any ideas?:(
<daftykins> i don't have a clue what that is
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> Yestrday morning I realised the new Formula1.com live timing no longer requires java... yesterday afternoon I finally removed java from my pooter... I feel so clean!!
<knightwise> morning
 * penguin42 yaaaawwwwnnnns - who stole our hour!
<knightwise> afternoon peeps
 * penguin42 yawns at knightwise
<knightwise> hey penguin42 , how are you dude !
 * penguin42 still trying to wake up at 2pm :-)
<knightwise> haha .. thats rich
<knightwise> been playing around with the 15.04 beta
<penguin42> yeh that's running on here
<knightwise> want to see if I can get the NEXT interface working on my Surface pro 1 ,
<penguin42> openstep or something?
<knightwise> well ,if possible , the touch/windowed interface
<Sebsebsebb> Hi
<Sebsebsebb> Popey ping
<ENRU> what is the command to show hidden startup applications
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Meow m
<ChloeWolfieGirl> I meant to backspace and delete, pressed enter... oh well
<MartijnVdS> also, hu
<MartijnVdS> hi
<zmoylan-pi> ctrl-a ctrl-e and ctrl-u are your friends for console based irc clients :-)
 * ChloeWolfieGirl uses Xchat-Gnome irc
<diddledan> has something changed at any point to cause /etc/init.d scripts that are symlinked into /etc/rc3.d (and others) correctly using `update-rc.d foo defaults` or similar incantation to fail to start on reboob?
<diddledan> it seems it just doesn't start hhvm for e.g.
<diddledan> (hhvm is shipped from upstream in .deb packages with /etc/init.d script and not /etc/init script)
<daubers> Someone put the kettle on
<diddledan> did they?
<elfy> yes
<daubers> Please can someone do so
<diddledan> aah
<daubers> pls be delivering me tea pls
<daubers> much thanks
 * diddledan throws tea at daubers 
<daubers> :(
<daubers> what a waste of good tea
<diddledan> TEAFIGHT
<daubers> What are you? American?
<diddledan> no they just dump it in the sea
<zmoylan-pi> if it's tea in pressed brick format it's still usable
<shauno> I mounted my camera on my roomba because I was bored.  now I have to mop under the couches :(
<zmoylan-pi> but you now have sentry #1...
<zmoylan-pi> just a few scripts to send images to your email if it detects movement...
<shauno> it more had me thinking I need to mount a duster ontop of the roomba so it can reach the skirting boards
<zmoylan-pi> a spinning feather duster as it moves along the boundaries
<daftykins> shauno: did y'see the tale of the poor Korean lass that had her hair eaten by one?
<daftykins> she unwittingly had a nap on the floor whilst the little guy was on patrol
<daftykins> cue robotic: "OM NOM NOM"
<diddledan> shauno: what about a spinning blade of doom?
<diddledan> daftykins: if only it had had a spinning blade of doom!
<daftykins> diddledan: Indiana Jones and the Roomba of doom
<zmoylan-pi> add a self righting mechanism and robot wars can have a whole new class roomba warriors...
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> doubles up with cleaning the arena floor, magic
 * daftykins installs Windows 10 TP build 10041 
<daftykins> ugh at not being available as an ISO
<shauno> I dunno about spinning .. I want it to pick stuff up, not chuck it :)
<diddledan> but blade of dooooom!
<shauno> no blades .. it's at cable-height  lol
<diddledan> even more fun
<daftykins> for anyone that watches Archer, i'm suddenly seeing a connection between diddledan and Krieger
 * daftykins squints
<daftykins> actions which have not been my best moments: aiming my laptops fan vent toward my thermostat 0o
<zmoylan-pi> leaving floppies on stereo speakers o/
<diddledan> fool
<zmoylan-pi> i had left my audio cassettes with spectrum games there all the time
<daftykins> diddledan: can you draw a recycle bin? https://www.dropbox.com/s/96x7rs3f9kx61kr/win10.PNG?dl=0
<m0nkey_> are them the new icons on Windows 10?
<daftykins> m0nkey_: yeah, thus far at least. given it's a tech preview and subject to change
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-28
<penguin42> given that 5 on demand wont work for me on any of the devices I have; do any of amazon video or nowtv let you watch five on demand without subscription?
<mapito> hi;D
<LibreSponge> Morning, still need an IRC mask name for tomorrow (?) cc ubuntu-community.
<Myrtti> the what?
<Myrtti> irc mask name?
<LibreSponge> Yes, a name sio doesn't give out my Ip address.
<Myrtti> you mean a cloak, then.
<LibreSponge> whatever, I still require a cloak-namje.
<LibreSponge> for ubuntu
<Myrtti> why?
<LibreSponge> Why don't I want (not) to give out my IP address ? (seriusly ?)
<Myrtti> no, never mind. I'm sure you've got a reason.
<LibreSponge> It's not 'bout reasons , it's just good chatting.
<Myrtti> last time this came up you said you needed one to join a channel
<LibreSponge> that's a different option/matter.
<Myrtti> so have you registered a nickserv account yet?
<LibreSponge> no
<LibreSponge> i have but i lost the email.
<LibreSponge> now they say that eMail's already taken.
<Myrtti> do you remember the accountname?
<LibreSponge> no
<Myrtti> right. If you pm me the email address, I'll have a look in a moment. I'm freenode staff, you can check by whois'ing me.
<LibreSponge> Myrtti: Ok, I've PM 'd you.
<LibreSponge> I cant whois you.
<LibreSponge> Myrtti, I have to go out, but I shall be back later
<Myrtti> alright
<SuperEngineer> LibreSponge, perhaps the words Thank You might be appropriate?  ;-)
<LibreSponge> Right, I'm back SuperEngineer. Thank-you with gratitude.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ikonia> anyone in the UK offering reasonable deals on harddisks - 3TB+ ? don't have to be fast, infact slow and cheap is fine, seen any good deals recently ?
<penguin42> ikonia: Scan's today only is listing 83.99inc for a 5k9 3TB Seagate
<ikonia> I already ate up their stock on Saturday
<ikonia> purchased 10 of them
<ikonia> the Toshiba's ?
<ikonia> oops, just seen seagate
<ikonia> sorry
<ikonia> lets see
<penguin42> although worth checking their main list; the todayonly isn't always cheapest
<ikonia> no, thats a very good point
<penguin42> wth do you need that many for?
<ikonia> some storage for generic stuff, and some longer term archiving and backups of archives
<ikonia> probably need around another 12TB to be sure, and maybe a spare disk on standby
<ikonia> maybe 9 would cut it
<ikonia> (extra 9tb)
<ikonia> not extra 9 disks
<penguin42> hmm CPC have a cheaper one
<ikonia> CPC ?
<penguin42> http://cpc.farnell.com/seagate/st3000dm001/drive-desktop-3-5-sata6gbps-3tb/dp/CS2284793
<penguin42> note the prices are exvat (inc vat)
<ikonia> ooh, they have more of the toshiba's in !
<ikonia> they will do, they said they where out now on Saturday and wouldn't be getting more in for a few weeks
<penguin42> so CPC are 76.62 for 3T Seagate
<ikonia> Â£69 for 3TB inc VAT
<ikonia> that will do, I'll raid them again, bought a ton on Saturday
<ikonia> good spot on those, thank you
<penguin42> admit it, you're building 'the machine' in your basement aren't you?
<ikonia> that got finished a long time ago, it now controls me, I must feed it disks
<penguin42> yum, tasty disks
 * diddledan licks them
<diddledan> morning :-)
<diddledan> anyone get blown-over by Katie?
<penguin42> not up here, just mostly wet
<diddledan> she blew a lot last night but seems to have settled-down now
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: see all the read "STORMSCHADE" things on http://112meldingen.nl/ ? That's fire service being called to fix storm damage/make it safe :)
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> anyone else watch billions
<popey> never heard of it
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-29
<mapps> hi;)
<AuroraAvenue> G Morning at 8am !
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<DJones> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<AuroraAvenue> I doubt mark will do a post 'bout it ... but here it is : http://fossforce.com/2016/03/busy-week-ubuntubsd-freenas-9-10-released/
<AuroraAvenue> nice cross-over
<knightwise> hmm. running the beta for 16.04
<knightwise> cant move the launcher to the bottom (
<popey> have you updated to latest?
<popey> and how are you moving it?
<knightwise>  i was looking at the system settings
<knightwise> just downloaded the dailt
<knightwise> daily
<popey> its not in system settings
<knightwise> aha .. drag and drop also isnt an option, right ?
<popey>  gsettings set com.canonical.Unity.Launcher launcher-position Bottom
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+MarcoTrevisan/posts/X46usgf7gSk
<knightwise> worked :)
<knightwise>  FINALLY ! )
<knightwise> After SIX years :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Mon^WTuesday, and happy Smoke And Mirrors Day! ð
<foobarry> knightwise: i had it in 2011 ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYH13qQZZe8
<foobarry> although rather unofficial
<selinuxium> Hey guys, are there any plans for a release party this time around?
 * zmoylan-pi comtemplates entering a pcworld and installing ubuntu on as many systems as possible before getting kicked out... :-P
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: terrorist :p
<zmoylan-pi> tux liberation army... :-P
<Oli> Anybody here on 16.04 with a Nvidia 9xx having suspend issues? (Notably first suspend working, second suspend hanging like a banana)
<selinuxium_> any awk gurus about?
<Oli> selinuxium_ I'm afraid what you'll throw at me if I say yes, but sure... Give it a go.
<selinuxium_> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15550566/ Is a one line code that logs out all users other than root.
<selinuxium_> I would like to be able to put another user in the exclude.
<selinuxium_> I might of just worked it out...  :)
<Oli> Yeah just change the regex to /(root|oli)/
<selinuxium_> Yup :)
<Oli> If performance matters, it'd be better to just use string matches (eg $1 != "root" && $1 != "oli" { ... }) but that's probably not important here.
<Oli> Seems super unlikely... But I still can't stop myself mentioning it.
<selinuxium_> All good, Thank you. :)
<foobarry> just realised that boty mcboatface should actually be called DROP TABLES PORTS;
<foobarry> and break every ship tracking website on the net
<zmoylan-pi> great for a warship... enemies ship locks on, identifies target and... reboots...
<zmoylan-pi> or point them at a flash enabled malware site...
<diddledan> just sent-off a WordPress plugin to a client \o/
<daftykins> you fiend
<daftykins> will it be exploited tomorrow? :)
<diddledan> probably :-p
<Seeker`> that long?
<daftykins> Seeker`: easter fallout ;D
 * diddledan falls out
<diddledan> oh dear
<diddledan> this is interesting: http://appimage.org/
<diddledan> single-file applications containing all dependencies in an ISO9660 image which is also executable as an ELF binary with mounts itself as a loopback ISO9660 and runs the program inside
<Oli> It's just a shame you have to make it executable and that it's not interpreted by xdg-open
<Oli> A .deb is more user friendly than telling new users you have to give something permission to execute (execute what? my files?!)
<Oli> It is potentially a nice idea. Especially if you can better sandbox the app off from the rest of the system too, lock down device permissions, etc. I'm not sure if it goes that far yet but it should. Desktops are starting to lag a long way behind mobile security.
<diddledan> Oli: why is "run this binary" less user friendly than "open your package manger, install this app (don't forget to become root), find the app in the menu and run it from there"
<directhex> it's worse than that
<directhex> double-click action is to try to open in gedit
<directhex> which then crashes at the 50mb input
<directhex> buuuuuuuut
<directhex> i am actually very interested in this, as an ISV
<diddledan> it's nice that you don't need to install anything, and there's no dependency-hell - I get the impression that click packages are kind of a similar idea
<directhex> cross-distro is super interesting to me here
<diddledan> but ubuntu has isolated clicks nicely (on the phone)
<diddledan> yeah, that's nice
<diddledan> if all your dependencies are internal to your package then you can run pretty much anywhere that supplies glibc
<directhex> i have *serious* problems right now with dependencies
<directhex> for monodevelop
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> ah
<diddledan> yeah. suckynuts
<directhex> so build against 12 distros, or...
<directhex> i am curious to experiment with this
 * diddledan interested to see what xamarin+MS ideas are going to be introduced at build
<directhex> NDA'd!
 * directhex keeps quiet
<diddledan> indeed!
<diddledan> I figured you were restrained
<diddledan> I'll be watching the livestream
<directhex> so, 2 issues w/ appimage
<directhex> 1) no support at all for .net stuff (just literally deletes your downloaded packages & bails out)
<directhex> 2) doesn't have a good solution for security - i have to bundle libssl from $old_distro
<ali1234> does any app bundle system have a good solution to the security issues?
<ali1234> i mean it seems like in order to fix it you'd have to not bundle all the dependencies
<ali1234> but then you won't have a bundle
<directhex> ali1234: basically no - but you could CI the build, if it didn't need heavy manual handholding for non-trivial arrangements
<directhex> i didn't look into how it handles dbus
<diddledan> yeah that's what I'm worried about with these containers-are-the-future delivery mechanisms. it requires that every ISV/project maintain their own security patching of things like libssl where that's usually handled by the distro security team once instead of being done 15bajillion times because you've installed 15bajillion apps
<directhex> and those occasions when Gtk has broken ABI
<awilkins> gtk breaking ABI <<<<<< Ugh, total PITA, broke MySQL Workbench
<diddledan> widdling it down
<diddledan> God must have left the tap running
<daftykins> the water companies must be miffed, they've still yet to receive a forwarding address
<diddledan> BST is weird. it's too bright
<diddledan> winter is better for us hermits
<daftykins> any drama from the storm in your parts? geographically that is, no oversharing please sir
<diddledan> not that I've seen, pretty mundane in terms of damage. though I did use the toilet a lot yesterday
<daftykins> what did the easter bunny do to you?
<diddledan> the bunny gave me one. a big one. or two.
<daftykins> i went to two whole shops and found none for purchase both Sunday and Monday :(
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> sainsbury's had a lot on sale here yesterday
<diddledan> there were a lot of chavs clammouring for the cheap eggs
<diddledan> I discovered this the other day: https://github.com/ryanoasis/nerd-fonts
<diddledan> the hacked fonts make great replacements for the equivalent in the terminal
<daftykins> what a delightfully judgmental and yet wholly accurate market sample ;D
<diddledan> check these lines: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vknr38lukf6j85s/Screenshot%20from%202016-03-29%2019-34-55.png?dl=0
<ali1234> what is the point of patching fonts? unicode replacement should handle it if you have the appropriate fonts installed
<ali1234> what terminal emulator are you using that can actually render that without gaps?
<diddledan> ali1234: I don't know how that works. this is simple download and apply
<diddledan> I'm using the stock terminal that buntu provides ootb
<diddledan> gnome terminal according to help->about
<ali1234> so libvte
<diddledan> I'm using the nerdfont variant of droid-sans-mono
<diddledan> when did cyber start to mean something other than "naughty chat with bald bloke pretending to be 16year-old girl"?
<diddledan> I'm assuming cyber security is protection either for or against said baldies?
 * diddledan misses the 90s
<diddledan> of course if it were the 90s we'd have to put-up with randoms yelling "BLINK182?"
<diddledan> and "I AM THE REAL SLIM SHADY"
<daftykins> at a minimum, perhaps
<diddledan> and of course those other randoms that think justin timberlake is going to obviously frequent #ubuntu
<diddledan> is he still a real person or did someone manage to debunk that myth yet?
<ali1234> wat
<celesteh> Hello, I think I'm having a problem with libraries/ffmpeg. I'm using python and cv2 to generate a video, but when i try to save it, the file is always 5.7kb with no content. A google search indicates that cv2 relies on ffmpeg to encode output. How can I tell if I'm missing a codec or something?
<daftykins> i thought ffmpeg got turned into avconv in 'buntu land
<celesteh> the project forked and ffmpeg was missing from the repos for a couple of versions, but now seems to be back
<celesteh> avconv has no advantages, has a different syntax, and loads of projects rely on ffmpeg...
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> i never did truly understand the reason
<celesteh> ffmpeg had an annoying lead dev. the project forked. he quit being annoying. somebdy in debian is friends of the lead dev of the fokred project. somebody at debian decoided to list ffmpeg as deprecated instead of forked, cuasing massive fud. ffmpeg sorted itself out and is now the better project and tons of people think it no longer exists
<Azelphur> Gah, why does the NHS keep getting worse. Had my gf move in with me and she needs to see a doctor, they won't let her register as she doesn't have proof of address, despite the fact that the NHS website clearly says not having proof of ID is not grounds for refusal of treatment or registration :@
<christel> your GP surgery?
<Azelphur> yup
<christel> even if she didn't live with you she should be able to see a GP when visiting
<christel> there's a temporary resident thing if you are somewhere fore more than 24 hours and less than three months iirc
<christel> so you can register as a temporary patient for up to that period
<christel> and then if you stay permanently you can register with the practice permanently
<christel> (i am sure i am not making this up, let me check)
<Azelphur> Yea, we didn't get far, the conversation went "Hello we'd like to register" "ok IDs please" "I have ID but she only has national insurance" "We need proof of address it's practice policy" "NHS Website says you don't need ID" "We don't care it's practice policy *walks away from counter*"
<Azelphur> that's a summary of the interaction I had, but it really didn't last long
<christel> http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/how-do-i-register-as-a-temporary-resident-with-a-gp.aspx she should be able to do that at least until such time that she gets letters/whatever to the new address
<christel> that is madness, i would complain to the practice manager
<Azelphur> christel: you're not, I called NHS England and they told me that I should be able to register, even with me standing at the counter with NHS England on the phone telling me I am allowed to register, they still refused us
<popey> GP Receptionists: Awful people since 1948
<christel> that's awful :/
<Azelphur> yea
<popey> So, you register, make appointment, Speak to GP
<daftykins> where's the next nearest?
<popey> Tell GP
<Azelphur> yea, maybe register elsewhere
<popey> they trump receptionists every day of the week
<christel> i hate calling to make an appointment because of this new receptionist triaging "IS IT URGENT?" "WHAT IS IT FOR?" i am always tempted to make up some really bizarre symptoms
<daftykins> it does seem quite personal, yeah
<Azelphur> for the full story, here's what I send to NHS England: http://pastebin.com/dCG8DB0f
<daftykins> glad we're not NHS :>
<christel> jersey healthcare ftw? :)
<daftykins> *gasp*
<daftykins> Guernsey!
<daftykins> Jersey is little England ;)
<christel> Oh! Guernsey! sorry
<christel> haha
<Azelphur> christel: the full story is even worse, honestly I felt like I was talking to angsty teenagers rather than receptionists
<christel> i knew it was one of them because kitten went through a phase of talking about you and your island nonstop!
<daftykins> i'll let you off this time, christel :>
<daftykins> christel: haha, oh that ended did it? XD
<christel> Azelphur: that is so sad!
<christel> daftykins: hahaha it is not quite as constant, or perhaps i have gotten better at zoning out ;)
<Azelphur> Indeed, tempted to take it to an MP or something, Margate is a poorer area, imagine there's lots of people around here with no passport/drivers license. Lots of people with mental health issues too - they really shouldn't be doing that
<christel> Azelphur: yeah, i don't think that's a bad idea, especially if you don't get very far with the practice manager
<popey> "NHS rules obviously superceed practice policy"
<popey> says who>?
<popey> that's an assumption on your part to be fair
<Azelphur> popey: NHS England pays for the practice to exist, NHS England made it very clear to me on the phone that I was correct
<Azelphur> honestly the guy from NHS England was very surprised to hear they were refusing me treatment and said he would deal with it
<popey> Hah
<christel> true, although i suspect the wording on the NHS page where it says you wont be denied treatment if you don't have ID, etc. sort of indicates that it should apply to all NHS surgeries/centres/whateveries
<popey> Speak to one of the doctors
<popey> not the tool on the front desk
<popey> she is doing what she's told
<popey> it's like getting angry at a waiter
<Azelphur> christel: the NHS page is actually specifically in reference to GPs
<popey> not her fault
<Azelphur> popey: yea I guess so, as I say will call tomorrow and try and get the practice manager to sort it out.
<popey> the partners in the practice are the people to sort the issue
<Azelphur> along with NHS England to see how the complaint is going
<popey> I wouldn't burn my bridges at my local GP
<popey> an amicable solution with a doctor would do better than swinging a sword around from NHS
<Azelphur> yea, didn't really want nor expect to burn bridges. I can always get a different GP that said
<Azelphur> I was honestly hoping NHS England would just call them and say "Yea...you have to accept the registration" and that would be that, but it has been drawn out.
<christel> are you currently registered with another local GP? as in, might you have more luck with your existing GP surgery?
<christel> (if she needs to be seen semi-urgently i mean)
<daftykins> https://gamechangercharity.donordrive.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=donate.event&eventID=520 - Tomb Raider for PC, for $1 o0
<Azelphur> christel: yea I am registered, I could well do, it's a bit of a mission (I moved away, it's in the next town over now)
<christel> aha
<Azelphur> NHS England suggested we go to a walk in, that's 30 minutes on the train though which isn't great :/
<christel> i know it was easy to get an appointment with my inlaws GP once when i needed to see a doctor while visiting them but i don't know if that was just luck or whether it was because she called up and said "my daughter in law is visiting and needs to see a doctor"
<christel> (incidentally they didn't ask for any proof of ID, they asked for my name and my temporary address while visiting and my dob but didn't check any of the data i gave them so i could probably have said whatever i fancied and still been seen)
<christel> so i guess practice policy may differ wildly between surgeries
<daftykins> sounds like it, fair point to consider the healthcare angle when abroad, i'll have to remember that
<daftykins> who knows how us odd rock dwellers handle things
<Azelphur> indeed
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-30
<diddledan> doobley do
 * diddledan fancies some cheese
 * diddledan wanders off to get some cheese
 * diddledan returns with some cheese
<diddledan> gotta love some cheese
<daftykins> mmhmm
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out the crackers
<daftykins> oh, no, diddledan has plenty of that ;D
<diddledan> crackers? I don't mind if I do! blablabloowoooweeeblablathrupt
<diddledan> (no that's not a modem!)
 * zmoylan-pi opens a different pack of crackers for those that don't want pre dribbled ones...
<diddledan> dribbledan?
<daftykins> is it "our jobs to anyone not technically inclined" ?
<zmoylan-pi> i hope jupiter is insured... http://boingboing.net/2016/03/29/something-may-have-just-struck.html
<diddledan> someone is bombarding it with a mass driver
<diddledan> oh dear, I just blogged for the first time in forever
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> it's hump day so can't complain
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> off to the nottingham forest football ground tonight....football is the one where you use a cue right?
<MooDoo> finally you can have unity launcher at the bottom :D
<MooDoo> and you know what?   not sure if i like it lol :)
<SuperMatt> hahah
<MooDoo> :)
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: is it easy to enable?
<popey> gsettings set com.canonical.Unity.Launcher launcher-position Bottom
<popey> gsettings set com.canonical.Unity.Launcher launcher-position Left
<popey> SuperMatt: ^
<SuperMatt> ah yes, I see
<SuperMatt> very easy
<mapps> does everyone do coke in gib? what going on
<mapps> its an absolute joke
<mapps> 3 guys in a toilet at brunos.....that says it all
<mapps> i was prob the oldest person in brunos
<SuperMatt> when a night's worth of coke can be cheaper than beer, it's not surprise
<mapps> its all free for me;p
<mapps> i put my drinks on tab
<mapps> lol
<SuperMatt> was this a company tab?
<mapps> no mine
<mapps> i go there 3-5xa week
<mapps> by where i work
<SuperMatt> right, but you do intend to pay this tab right? It's not free...
<mapps> yyes, free for now
<mapps> i pay every month
<SuperMatt> oh good
<SuperMatt> I just wouldn't fall in to the trap of convincing yourself it's free
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Take A Walk In The Park Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> ð  MooDoo
<MooDoo> seen this ? http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-and-canonical-partner-to-bring-ubuntu-to-windows-10/
<popey> Oooh! The "Microsoft are buying Canonical" rumour has been kicked off again
<MooDoo> it wasn't that bad popey ;)
<foobarry> not surprising given the public relationship canonical and MS are having
<awilkins> Anyone here claimed PPI?
<DJones> Yay, back home at last
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Considered it, but not done it yet
<Myrtti> awilkins: a friend works in a bank and all you need is in theory your name, but more information you can give them helps them. If it's about a joint mortgage or loan, then complain together so it'll be researched properly. Banks should have forms on their sites to fill up, or you can write a letter yourself.
<Myrtti> (I've got nothing to my own name in UK but have followed up some discussions)
<MooDoo> awilkins: yeah wife has
<awilkins> I've got a form from the FCA I'm filling in
<awilkins> Basically an endowment plan with a "Critical illness cover"
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: My endowment claim went nowhere. Gutted
<TwistedLucidity> Be lucky if it covers ~50% of what it was supposed to (high risk investment when I'd asked for low)
<TwistedLucidity> Endowment company ignored letters, FCA (or whatever it was called back then) said they could not help
<diddledan> wow, MooDoo , popey , that's some serious leaping to conclusions based on the name of a single dll file.
<popey> wat wat?
<diddledan> popey: the Microsoft/canonical article that MooDoo posted at 10:32
<diddledan> 10:43
<popey> oh
<popey> yeah, fun
<diddledan> the file is lxss.dll obviously that means Linux....
<MooDoo> oh that was old news, i thought it was about the getting ubuntu running on windows 10 article
<diddledan> MooDoo: it's the same story
<MooDoo> think it's being announce at build 2016, but i'll believe it when i see it
<MooDoo> diddledan: ah! doh!
<MooDoo> diddledan: I'm sure popey wouldn't mind working for Microsoft any way ;)
<diddledan> MooDoo: the article you posted links to another at winbeta that talks of lxss.dll meaning that Linux is coming to windows
<MooDoo> right
<diddledan> lxss obviously means Linux subsystem.... there's no other reason for l and x to appear together
<diddledan> </troll>
<ndf> ... totally right though
<ndf> lol
<ndf> I may be missing the joke here but isn't Microsoft really trying to run Adnroid apps on Windows and vice versa?
<diddledan> they abandoned the android bridge
<ndf> oh
<ndf> why is that? I was under the impression that it would have been a simpler system to implement than cygwin or whatever
<popey> diddledan: MooDoo I can't see MS "buying" Canonical
<diddledan> I don't think canonical would agree anyway
<ndf> unfortunately in business you don't have to 'agree' to be bought
<diddledan> at least I would hope Jane would refuse such a purchase
<popey> Sure you do
<popey> We're a privately held company
<ndf> I meant once there's public shares involved, anyway
<diddledan> yeah, hostile takeovers can only occur with public stock where there's the possibility of one entity buying themselves a majority share - of course if Mark owned 51% of the shares of a theoretical public canonical then that would be impossible anyway
<ndf> ah yeah i see
<diddledan> (yey for GCSE business studies :-p)
<ndf> haha I actually got a B in BS, but I have forgotten a fair bit
<diddledan> ditto on the forgotten, and I think I got C
<diddledan> BS = Bull Poo
<diddledan> :-p
<ndf> hah yea
<ndf> ooh phone call
<diddledan> yey
<ndf> mmmm buds are in lol back soon
<knightwise> yezzz :) `
<knightwise> removed Windows 10 from my Acer revo, reinstalled 14.04 , its runnign smoothly :)
<MooDoo> windows 10 runs quite smooth on my dell, i only removed it as my AV license is due to expire and i don't want to pay out Â£50 :D
<MooDoo> and i don't like the other free ones
<knightwise> MooDoo: the machine is mostly used as a file server and a plex server
<knightwise> win10 ran fine indeed (Im also running it on my surface pro)
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> I'm currently in win10
<diddledan> I hop back and forth between 10 and buntu every other day :-p
<MooDoo> I remove it from my laptop, now i'm running ubuntu LTS
<MooDoo> well the beta
<MooDoo> tried moving ubuntu to the bottom, didn't like it lol
<MooDoo> unity launcher i meant lol
<diddledan> yeah, 16.04 is close enough now that it's fairly stable
<MooDoo> works for me :)  virtualbox couple of vms sweet
<MooDoo> i prefer command line stuff so command line music player as well :D
<knightwise> same here :)
<knightwise> ranger + vms
<knightwise> diddledan: thought about cramming 16.04 on the machine but since its our main entertainment center (plex) i had to be sure it was rocksolid
<diddledan> I hear that!
<diddledan> also, plex ftw
<MooDoo> knightwise: i use moc as my music player :)
<ndf> MooDoo: what currency is lb? or was that supposed to be a pound? (I understand the origins of lb ;P )
<ndf> I read it as 50lbs as a weight
<ndf> lol
<ndf> let me know if you find an AV that takes subscription payments in weights of meat
<MooDoo> lol what ever i put i meant Â£50
<ndf> yeah but what do you mean, Â£50?
<ndf> what is lb?
<MooDoo> oh don't you see the currency symbol for sterling / money / pounds MONEY
<MooDoo> 50 quid
<ndf> i'm seeing lb, not Â£
<ndf> you're typing lb
<ndf> not Â£
<MooDoo> no i'm typing the symbol Â£ maybe it's irssi showing it wrong
<ndf> "15:40 < MooDoo> no i'm typing the symbol lb maybe it's irssi showing it wrong"
<ndf> >the symbol lb
<ndf> I think it's your input - I'm on irssi and having no trouble seeing my 'Â£' symbol
<MooDoo> i'm on irssi too :)
<ndf> then are you seeing me saying 'lb' instead of 'Â£'?
<MooDoo> HAY ALL What you seeing when I type Â£ ?
<Myrtti> Â£ sign
<Myrtti> :-P
<ndf> "15:42 < Myrtti> lb sign"
<ndf> is what I'm seeing on you too
<ndf> is that a joke?
<ndf> lol
<Myrtti> then you might have your UTF8 settings wrong
<ndf> ... but I'm seeing my own 'Â£'
<ndf> just not yours
<Myrtti> well, I'm seeing yours and my own
<ndf> admittedly I am running irssi-win so it's on cygwin in cmd
<Myrtti> there you go then.
<Myrtti> irssi on cygwin is an unholy mess
<ndf> but if it was a UTF problem, wouldn't I just be seeing an unrecognised char rather than the two ascii chars for 'l', and 'b'?
<ndf> ascii 'lb' != UTF-8 'Â£'
<Myrtti> hence the word 'might'
<ndf> well this is all sorts of borked
<Myrtti> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<ndf> it's offending my mind
<MooDoo> Myrtti: you shruggin ;)
<Myrtti> yup
<MooDoo> :)
<ndf> I'm just seeing escape codes in that, I don't know if they're translating on your end but they're not here
<MooDoo> looks fine to me :)
<ndf> ohrly
 * ndf hears a joke whooshing over his head
<Myrtti> https://imgur.com/JbgQ2wB
<ndf> well holy crap
<ndf> hah
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> Myrtti: are your times stardate or something? ;)
<Myrtti> UTC
<ndf> haha
<MooDoo> oh doh of course, silly me
<Myrtti> makes my life easier when discussing logs with the rest
<ndf> well I can't beleive I've never had a conversation containing a Â£ or other UTF symbols before.. surprised I've not noticed that before.
<Myrtti> just out of interest
<Myrtti> how does Ã¤Ã¶ display to you?
<ndf> 15:57 < Myrtti> how does "a"o display to you?
<ndf> do you have that in ascii? what was it?
<ndf> lol
<ndf> ... or another screeny?
<Myrtti> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%84
<Myrtti> lowercase a and o with diaresis
<ndf> haha so apparently prefixing with " is as good as an umlaut/diaresis
<ndf> this conversion must be coded by irssi or cygwin, I can't imagine cmd having that sort of switching for unrecognised symbols
<ndf> cmd usually just doesn't print them or let you paste them in
<ndf> in fact
<ndf> I can't even paste in the dotted A from wikipedia
<ndf> into here
<ali1234> cygwin comes with it's own terminal emulator because command.com is awful
<ndf> irssi is packaged with a stripped down version of putty, but also a cmd launcher (which I am using)
<ndf> (irssi-win, that is)
<ndf> [meaning you can either run it in cygwin's terminal, or cmd]
<ndf> [or putty]
<diddledan> WTF
<diddledan> popey: ubuntu. really IS coming to windows
<diddledan> just announced it at build
<ali1234> of course it is
<ndf> saywhuuuut
<daftykins> well, Bash and binaries ;D
<diddledan> yeah
 * daftykins browses /mnt/c/ ;)
<popey> :)
<daftykins> error: path too long
<ali1234> the question is what is it actually good for?
<diddledan> ali1234: EVERYTHING I currently use Cygwin for!
<ali1234> okay, but i haven't used cygwin since 2001?
<daftykins> i don't think we were aware you use Windows for dev
<daftykins> next step, package management ;)
<ali1234> it won't be of any use for actual windows users
<daftykins> i'm no dev but i'm sure things like that would make dealing with open source things more easily
<daftykins> ali1234: right, but it's a dev event...
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> so this is aimed at developers who for some reason want to develop software for ubuntu even though they use windows?
<daftykins> perhaps you can wait for the next consumer devices event and say it's rubbish for devs, too
<daftykins> doesn't have anything to do with ubuntu specifically, i would say
<ali1234> oh sorry. this is for developers who want to write software for *linux* even though they use windows exclusively
<ali1234> i guess that's... well, maybe some game developers?
<ali1234> but probably not, i mean you'd want to test it on the real thing anyway
<daftykins> you're just embarassing yourself commenting without following along
<ali1234> oh, are they explaining exactly what the use case is?
<ali1234> maybe you could tell me then, instead of being a dick?
<daftykins> diddledan: crikey that guy is sat on a tire
<daftykins> ali1234: either watch it first hand or later.
<daftykins> if being a dick is saying you're silly for commenting without knowing the facts, i don't have a problem with that.
<popey> http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.html has the details.
<ndf> but..
<ndf> this is crazy
<ndf> ok I'm impressed, didn't want to admit it
<ndf> so essentially what I took away from the article was that it was the inverse of WINE... is it comparable?
<popey> yes
<daftykins> native SSH and SCP will be fun
<ndf> hm
<popey> yeah, and being able to run the usual bash scripts with awk / sed / tee etc without jumping through too many hoops
<MartijnVdS> How is it different from what I can already use (msys2 that comes with git, for instance, has most tools as well)
<daftykins> well the above article implies bringing over the package management as well, perhaps - unless i'm reading between the lines
<daftykins> keeping those Canonical-sourced binaries up to date would be neat
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: msys2 (the standalone one) comes with pacman
<daftykins> is it pulling specific builds of programs then?
<MartijnVdS> Yeah, I think so
<MartijnVdS> well msys2 is, anyway
<MartijnVdS> DLLs and exes
<daftykins> mmm, not quite so easy then
<daftykins> diddledan: nothing like a joke flopping
<diddledan> I've had to pause the stream cos I've gone round the parentals
<daftykins> ah
<diddledan> Just read the post popey linked at half five.. Interesting! It is the same binaries!!!?!
<popey> yes
<ali1234> all very impressive, but what problem does it solve?
<MartijnVdS> the problem of developers leaving Windows behind
<ali1234> that's my interpretation too
<ali1234> essentially this seems to be aimed squarely at the type of people who buy a mac because it comes with ssh pre-installed
<ali1234> buy a mac over windows i mean
<daftykins> i work cross-platform and i think it makes the CLI tools i use more native in a way
<ali1234> it certainly gives you a consistent environment
<ali1234> if it is the exact same binaries
<ali1234> is it cli only?
<ali1234> dustin kirkland claims it will run most of the stuff in the repos
<ali1234> "most of the tens of thousands binary packages available in the Ubuntu archives"
<ali1234> were the exact words
<ali1234> maybe that will be done through mir
<ali1234> would be funny. essentially locking out all other distros
<ali1234> now that really would cause some drama
<ali1234> as i understand it this thing is an extension of the windows 10 android app compatibility
<ali1234> and of course mir is designed to run on android graphics drivers... which windows provides an emulated version of presumably
<ali1234> seems like everyone is convinced that this is only for cli tools
<zmoylan-pi> evolution will kill outlook... :-)
<popey> for now it is
<ali1234> for now :)
<popey> heh
<ali1234> if mir can run on android hardware drivers i see no reason why it can't run on (whatever remains) of project astoria
<daftykins> i thought that was an app converter
<ali1234> no, it's (was) a "platform bridge"
<ali1234> it's where the adss.sys/lxss.sys stuff comes from
<ali1234> adss = android subsystem
<ali1234> but they cancelled it last month
<ali1234> the benefits of having solid command line tools are clear... for microsoft
<ali1234> it will stop devops people migrating to OS X
<ali1234> and to a lesser extent ubuntu
<ali1234> so i don't see what canonical gets from the deal if it's only command line
<ali1234> if it lets ubuntu (mobile) apps run on windows though... then that's a very different proposition
<ali1234> so can anyone be a windows insider and download this?
<ali1234> is it gonna cost me anything?
<daftykins> yeah anyone can, no money
<daftykins> just the whole having a Microsoft account to run it
<ali1234> i already have two
<daftykins> plus allegedly the insider versions log keystrokes
<ali1234> i'm not going to use it for anything other than kicking the tyres :)
<popey> heh
<ali1234> the download page seems to suggest i need a licensed copy of windows already to install
<daftykins> it was a straight ISO last time i did it
<ali1234> yes it is, but is it gonna ask me for a serial when i boot it up?
<daftykins> no because it's insider.
<ali1234> i built my own computer, it does not have any kind of windows license or OEM bios stuff
<daftykins> official retail 10 ISOs downloaded also do not require keys to install
<daftykins> nor the last few versions
<ali1234> really? wow
<ali1234> no activation?
<daftykins> well all the non-insider stuff goes to 30 day trial by default
<daftykins> looks like they stopped hosting ISOs directly :/ how disappointing
<daftykins> ah no i'm not in the right place
<daftykins> yep they've made it tough to get!
<directhex> the iso download only works from linux/osx
<directhex> on windows, it gives you a .exe which does the downloading
<daftykins> they seem to have pulled image links entirely
<daftykins> oh are you saying you see a different page depending what you're viewing from?
<ali1234> i definitely got a direct link to an iso from the insider page
<ali1234> still hasn't downloaded though
<ali1234> MS needs a better CDN
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> might be that viewing it from 10 was limiting me
<zmoylan-pi> oculus face... http://www.popsci.com/oculus-face-is-sign-our-virtual-times
<ndf> MooDoo / Myrtti : if either of you are around would you care to hit me with some more UTF-8 symbols again? lol
<ndf> or anyone else could do it I guess lol
<Myrtti> Ã¤Ã¶ Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯ Â£â¬
<Myrtti> â¥
<ndf> ah still the same
<ndf> haha
<ndf> never mind
<ndf> I launched it in putty this time to see if it was any different
<ndf> (cygterm)
<ndf> aha I think I may have fixed it
<ndf> once more please Myrtti ;P
<Myrtti> â¥ â¬Â£ Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯ Ã¤Ã¶Ã¥
<ndf> hm halfway fixed
<ndf> probably requires restart of putty
<Myrtti> (deg)
<Myrtti> Â°
<Myrtti> there we go
<ndf> lol ty sorry for wasting your time ;P
<m0nkey_> :)
<ali1234> okay the download finished. now to load it in virtualbox
<diddledan> the ubuntu bits aren't in the current build
<diddledan> they're apparently coming in a short while to insiders
<diddledan> maybe weeks
<daftykins> i couldn't coax 10586 to find the 14xxx build when set to 'fast ring'
<daftykins> so i said 'meh'
<diddledan> there's a suggestion that the availability will be announced at http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.html
<diddledan> wrong link
<diddledan> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/
<m0nkey_> ^-- me like
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-31
<ali1234> okay it's installing
<ali1234> it did in fact ask me for a product key
<ali1234> but it allows you to skip it. no idea what will happen on first boot
<daftykins> yeah but i said it doesn't need one
<daftykins> which is the same
<ali1234> "Hi"
<daftykins> we're glad that you're here
<daftykins> we're getting this ready for you!
<ali1234> i wasn't forced to create a microsoft account
<ali1234> and i was able to turn off all the tracking... or at least some of it
<daftykins> no, but you have to use one with insider preview builds
<daftykins> nope
<ali1234> oh, what do i have then?
<daftykins> in terms of?
<ali1234> in terms of what i jus downloaded and installed?
<daftykins> likely without an MS account signed into, it won't allow further insider updates from that point
<daftykins> but that might not be necessary for a quick play
<ali1234> Win10_1511_1_English_x64.iso
<daftykins> cmd would state the build #
<ali1234> well this is a huge improvement over 8
<ali1234> or maybe not
<ali1234> 10586
<daftykins> yep so that's the same as is out right now
<daftykins> too old
<ali1234> lots of updates tho
<ali1234> oh here's a button to get insider updates
<daftykins> mmm not really ;D you'll need to sign into an MS account instead, then change windows update to the fast ring in start -> settings -> update
<ali1234> now it is asking me to sign in
<ali1234> keyboard has stopped working
<ali1234> oh, there's just a 30 second delay on typing
<daftykins> classic vbox ;D
<daftykins> sounds like you gave it quite few resources perhaps
<ali1234> first forced reboot
<ali1234> i gave it 4GB
<daftykins> processors
<ali1234> 1?
<daftykins> ouch
<ali1234> okay i appear to be all set for the fast track
<daftykins> mmm i got that far then it just didn't appear
<daftykins> not even after 10586's updates were on
<ali1234> did you enable developer mode?
<daftykins> that's not necessary to get newer builds on the fast track
<ali1234> but apparently it is necessary for the bash
<ali1234> according to a blog i read
<daftykins> as mentioned that's not even available yet
<ali1234> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/DevelopersCanRunBashShellAndUsermodeUbuntuLinuxBinariesOnWindows10.aspx
<ali1234> i wonder what "adding the feature" means
<daftykins> could be programs and features
<diddledan> right-click start, choose programs and features, select add features to windows
<daftykins> super+X -> control panel
<daftykins> oh yeah it's there
<ali1234> wow it's like a proper start menu
<daftykins> with all the real things IT folk really want to get to
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> like Netflix :-p
<ali1234> that's actually pretty nice. does 8 have that?
<daftykins> mmm possibly, i forget
<daftykins> 8's dead as far as i'm concerned :D
<diddledan> 8 and 8.1 have a start screen rather than menu
<ali1234> still has a thing in the bottom left though doesnt it?
<daftykins> it's a fake, but you get the same by right clicking i think
<daftykins> which is also how you get it on 10
<diddledan> it's similar to the 10 menu but it's full-screen and the icons are under a down-arrow on that screen
<ali1234> i specifically mean the right click thing
<ali1234> the actually useful start menu
<diddledan> aah, 8 has similar
<diddledan> that goes back to vista but it's grown in features
<ali1234> so what do insider updates look like when they are available?
<ali1234> they appear in the updates bit and say "insider update 12345"?
<daftykins> the list of what it's downloading shows a newer build coming down
<daftykins> and you get to watch 3GB get downloaded
<diddledan> I've been running 10 for two years this September (on and off) so it's been a long while since I last played with an 8/8.1
<ali1234> "We speak gmail" lol
<diddledan> the insider update behaves like an upgrade install similar to the initial install
<ali1234> let's see if they can handle my 4GB of emails
<daftykins> he didn't do one though :D
<daftykins> that update process is gonna crawl with 1 CPU, i'd give it 2 or 4 perhaps
<ali1234> my computer is busy doing other stuff anyway
<diddledan> I've not had any success running 10 in vbox - it just crawls no matter what resources I assign
<ali1234> er...
<ali1234> why does the email client go really thin when i maximize it?
<diddledan> bug
<diddledan> ?
<ali1234> oh i see
<ali1234> you click an email and then you see it at the side
<ali1234> it's like android
<ali1234> except on a computer
<ali1234> awful.
<daftykins> gotta be honest, i wouldn't go back to the days of a mail client
<daftykins> much less the OS stock one
<ali1234> as usual, conversations are not threaded properly
<ali1234> i got inbox soup
<ali1234> "We are adding some new features to windows"
<ali1234> "this could take a few minutes"
<diddledan> \o/
<ali1234> sounds promising
<ali1234> hmm this email client... you can't just scroll down and read a whole conversation. it's pretty bad
<ali1234> i can see how hard they want to make convergence
<ali1234> this is a tablet app running in a window
<ali1234> second forced reboot
<ali1234> "working on updates"
<ali1234> once i had a windows 7 stuck on this screen for four hours
<ali1234> that was reasonably quick
<daftykins> yeah i don't make much money doing 10 installs that's for sure ;)
<ali1234> oh, it just rebooted back to this screen
<ali1234> fully updated and no ubuntus
<ali1234> guess i'll just try again in a week or so
<ali1234> http://imgur.com/IV9xGMN
<ali1234> i wonder what /dev/adss is?
<ali1234> and /dev/fb0
<ali1234> still think it's command line only?
<diddledan> fb0 is an interesting one
<diddledan> adss was the name of the dll for the android subsystem that the lxss (Linux subsystem) was partly based-upon
<ali1234> exactly
<diddledan> interesting. fork (the big bugbear of Cygwin implementation devs apparently) is gonna be handled by threads
<diddledan> https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2016/C906
<diddledan> a discussion with an MS Project Manager, Dustin Kirkland from canonical and an MS developer
<daftykins> ooh in the devils lair
<diddledan> interesting that each windows user has their own ubuntu install
<diddledan> so you will be able to useradd new users to your own ubuntu which are unrelated to my ubuntu users
<diddledan> even though we're on the same machine
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey moodoo :) how are you dude
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah good thanks, just watching dusting on channel9 about the bash on windows thing
<knightwise> I think its not bad at all :) i would love to have some bash tools in windows
<knightwise> currently enjoying linux apps on osx thanx to homebrew , so i'm not complaining at all :)
<knightwise> I for one welcome our new bash overlords :p
<MooDoo> no i'm quite excited, out of acorns and all that
<MooDoo> next it'll be gui apps, if they go that way
<knightwise> i mean : if there ever was a sign that linux "matters" to microsoft then it has to be that !
<knightwise> Oh yes ! that would be cool as well
<knightwise> if people keep this up my cross platform podcast is going to become irrelevant :)
<MooDoo> on the flip side, i wonder if there is something super duper secret to get windows apps ported to linux?
<MooDoo> or exe running natively etc
<knightwise> God ...
<knightwise> Word and shit on my linux machine ? I would be in heaven
<knightwise> i could finally take my Linux OS into the corporate world !
<MooDoo> yeah exactly :D
<MooDoo> can't see it happening just yet, but you never know do you
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> in the end operating systems arent gonna matter anymore. I love microsofts strategy of embracing other platforms
<knightwise> The best client to check your Gmail on IOS is Outlook (go figure)
<MooDoo> well all we can do is wait and see, i mean, this new feature won't be available until their summer release build
<MooDoo> and then you have to put the system in developer mode.
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> in the meantime .. there is putty :p
<knightwise> hmm.. i'm thinking about getting an older T520i (Lenovo) this weekend as a system to tinker with.
<knightwise> do you think its still worth it to get something like that ?
<MooDoo> lol I use than my self :)
<MooDoo> i have no idea about older machines :(
<knightwise> MooDoo: you do ? what are your specs on that machine ? an I5 .. and...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> heya brobostigon
<brobostigon> moin knightwise
<MooDoo> knightwise: the machine i'm on at the moment [work] is a dell latitude laptop i5 4gb ram nothing special
<knightwise> And what specs do you hacve on the I520  ?
<Oli> I think you're getting a little ahead of yourselves here. Actions to date suggest they're just trying to stop Windows-users who need to develop for Linux servers (websites/etc) from moving to Linux. I'll happily eat those words when they show off MS Office Linux Edition, but they still make considerable money off enterprise Windows subscriptions so I don't think that'll be any time soon.
<MooDoo> Oli: we can dream :D
<knightwise> My thoughts exactly
<Oli> And/or Linux developers who like to game. These recent changes mean I could now [easily] perform my dayjob on Win10. I'll admit I'm a little tempted.
<knightwise> Oli: Win10 isn't bad , i run it on my Surface pro 4
<Oli> BURN THE HERETIC
 * knightwise = Cross platform slider
<knightwise> I use windows, linux , ios, android and Osx on a daily basis
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy World Backup Day! ð
<knightwise> JamesTait: :) Backup Backup Backup
<knightwise> I backed up into the garage door this morning :)
<JamesTait> Oops.
<zmoylan-pi> *beep* *beep* *beep*
<JamesTait> Crunch!
<zmoylan-pi> parking by ear... a noble tradition
<JamesTait> I tend to use my hands on the steering wheel and my feet on the pedals, but I recognise that might not be everyone's cup of tea.
<knightwise> I call it Auditory Navigation tactics
<zmoylan-pi> no true jedi certificate for JamesTait...
<JamesTait> It's true. :(
 * knightwise waves hand "This is not the insurance document you are looking for"
<zmoylan-pi> it was either you or the garage door...
<bashrc_> jedi certificate authority
<knightwise> This is not the cert you are looking for ?
<Myrtti> oh no
<Myrtti> Ronnie Corbett has died
<SuperMatt> source?
<zmoylan-pi> bugger... if 2016 would stop killing great people that'd be great...
<Myrtti> BBC News right now
 * zmoylan-pi goes to get fork handles...
<TwistedLucidity> Urf, more sad news
<MooDoo> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35934024
<Myrtti> time to stock up on four candles, I think. More apt than fork handles.
<bashrc_> I know my place...
<knightwise> oh :(
<MooDoo> :)
<Myrtti> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/your-smartphone-could-soon-replace-your-passport_uk_56fcf4e8e4b0884065f053bd?j75fv94otlrt2ihpvi
<knightwise> minsky: i love that sketch
 * knightwise realy needs a dose of friday 
<diplo> Guys, two adsl lines from the same provider, would like to bond them... any recommendations for cheapish routers ( ie : not 1k ) more like in the low hundreds if possible
<diplo> I've found dsl/vdsl routers, dsl, ethernet routers but no dual dsl ones s o far
<diplo> Seems using a stanard drayek and one of their modems will work on the secondary wan port
<bigcalm> I think it's almost time to wrap up the date poll for this year's RAT. Does anybody else want to have a ponder before this happens? http://doodle.com/poll/qw7ehwk5dnweviyp
<diddledan> 2016 is being a bad year for celebs
<diddledan> poor Ronnie C :-(
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: RAT...Real Ale Tiddlywinks?
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: And do I get a CAMRA discount? :-P
 * diddledan twiddles TwistedLucidity's wink
<diddledan> tiddles**
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 19th September 2015 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3040-real-ale-train-2015/
<bigcalm> That was last year's
<TwistedLucidity> Looks like fun. But I probably lack the chops for the technical stuff and I'm a dirty Kubuntu user anyway. (Also it's a bit far to drive...)
<diddledan> beer is technical?
<bigcalm> There is almost a negative amount of tech talk
<bigcalm> Very drunk people are created instead
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I'm betting everyone here make awesome drunks
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: I'd have to drive home drunk. That's not happening!
<TwistedLucidity> But this *IS* happening: https://linuxbierwanderung.com/ It's on the IoM this year.
<bigcalm> My wife and I book a hotel in Farnham or Farnbrough and go home on the Sunday
<diddledan> wonks are worried about the security of trident computers: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/29/trident-upgraded-to-protect-against-cyber-attack/
<diddledan> lets upgrade to win10!
<diddledan> Miguel de icaza is on-stage
<popey> directhex: look busy
<directhex> this might be an interesting presentation
<diddledan> is that insider knowledge? :-p
<zmoylan-pi> he's going to announce that the tesla 3 will run on .net? :-P
<diddledan> no extra charge!
<diddledan> that's a good price
<diddledan> open sauce, too
<popey> heh
<popey> "any device, any backend operating system"
<popey> hmm
 * zmoylan-pi and my s40 phone laughs at him... :-)
<popey> :)
<popey> awkward
<popey> asking for applause
<diddledan> don't type your password!
<popey> http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/xps-13-9350-laptop-ubuntu
<bigcalm> That link doesn't give me a product page
<diddledan> me either
<popey> http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/xps-13-9350-laptop-ubuntu/pd.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=bsd&fl=p
<popey> soz, busted it
<bigcalm> Looks nice
<bigcalm> Though 13" feels a little small to me
 * TwistedLucidity hugs T430
<popey> yeah, T460 is currently top of my "to buy" list
<popey> but spendy
<zmoylan-pi> cheaper than a lifetime addiction to apple... :-)
<Seeker`> *cough* :bigcalm : Though 13" feels a little small to me
<Myrtti> I love my xps13
<Myrtti> best laptop I've ever had
<diddledan> that's an impressive scaling of a game backend they're demoing right now
<ndf> I'm still running an AlienWare m11xR1 (11" gaming netbook-sized notebook/laptop with a decent nVidia card)
<ndf> love the tinyness
<diddledan> lol: "I don't always test my code. but when I do test my code, I test it in production"
<ndf> still packs a punch even though it's like nearly 8 years old or whatever
<ndf> just a shame these Win10 drivers for switchable gfx(between onboard intelHD and discrete nVidia card) doesn't work
<ndf> have to keep one card disabled to avoid 'black screen with cursor' at boot
<ndf> =(
<ndf> unfortunately it's the nV one.
<halt> Hi guys, I just got a new laptop with build in gsm (EM7455) but I did not managed to make it, but not even sure where to start, the modem itself is seen by the os, but is the sim ok or where it's stuck I can't really tell
<popey> network manager should see it
<halt> all I got is the unavailable message
<halt> I see the interface, but nothing about the network
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkManager/Hardware/3G
<popey> thats a bit old but may be useful
<halt> I have 1.0.4-0ubuntu5.3 version form the network manager and that page is referring to 0.7, and it's not listed so based on that I can't tell if it's compatible or not
<halt> re sorry just did a restart
<halt> nmcli dev status | grep gsm
<halt> cdc-wdm0   gsm       unavailable  --
<halt> that's all I got, but why it's not available ...well nothing
<halt> I feel like it can't see the sim or something basic but I can't find out
<daftykins> brief visit
<diddledan> daftykins: that's when your lawyers turns up at the jail to post your bail, right?
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> just setting up a client Dell XPS13 from the Dell Outlet store now, 8 minutes from power on to booting a win10 flash drive, installing - and desktop.
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> I got a bit emotional watching this video - I'm a big softy https://youtu.be/StLmmsJGNQ8
<Azelphur> I did the only adult thing with Ç¢.cc, set up a URL shortener on it (Nimbus) then patched the source to allow for even shorter URLs, https://Ç¢.cc/suc ... wonder how I could make it shorter, I don't know why I'm obsessed with this
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> that's a git to type though ;)
<diddledan> Azelphur: utf-8 for the unique code
<daftykins> excellent, now got an embedded pfsense router which connects to my digitalocean VPS and selectively forwards devices' traffic over that VPN for TV uses in Spain :)
<diddledan> :-p
<Azelphur> daftykins: true, but who types URLs, it's always just linked somewhere
<diddledan> I type google.com regularly
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> fair point :P
<daftykins> i type them all
<daftykins> but sometimes you see something on one screen and want to open it on another
<diddledan> short urls however, are generally not meant to be typed IMO
<diddledan> which then begs the question why make a short one
<daftykins> say that to the #ubuntu support users
<daftykins> sometimes pastebin'ing things they can't link to easily ;)
<diddledan> daftykins: yeah but #ubuntu is full of the dregs of society
<diddledan> pastebinit is useful!
<daftykins> i no longer know!
<diddledan> you left?
<daftykins> no i got banned
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> yeah but that's when supporting folk who have non-working internet connections
<diddledan> what did you get banned for?
<daftykins> also i kept seeing folk get that 'API key' error sometimes too
<daftykins> calling a duck a duck
<diddledan> well duck that!
<daftykins> precisely!
<diddledan> quack
<diddledan> Miguel de Icaza is demoing executable documentation right now - it's funky
<diddledan> it's a markdown document that contains c# snippets which run directly
<Azelphur> Also, to add to my crazy doctors saga yesterday, it gets even more crazy, spoke to NHS England again today, apparently the doctors are accusing me of being intimidating now, and I'm banned from the practice. AND they told the NHS England representative that they wanted to talk to his manager to get him in trouble with his manager for telling me I am allowed to register at a GP without ID
<Azelphur> Sounds like this is going to end really badly for that doctors surgery...
<daftykins> Azelphur: that's hella messy
<Azelphur> Indeed
<daftykins> what a crazy string of events O_O
<diddledan> I missed what happened yesterday
<daftykins> oh it was a doozy
<Azelphur> diddledan: I'll get you a pastebin, one sec
<diddledan> but I registered at my surgery without ID a few years ago
<Azelphur> diddledan: here's what I sent NHS England, telling them exactly how it went down: http://pastebin.com/S9uJS5wf
<christel> you are BANNED from the practice? let's hope you don't need urgent medical care while walking past :o
<Azelphur> christel: yea, it's really weird they claimed I was being intimidating, After I left the practice I called NHS England and I was perfectly calm and collected on the phone, and then when I went back in with NHS England on the phone I was still perfectly calm. So what they are saying is pretty much demonstrably false by NHS England themselves...
<Azelphur> of all the things to claim, they shouldn't probably tell NHS England I was being intimidating when I was on the phone to NHS England not being at all intimidating, it's the kind of thing that makes your story fall apart pretty fast >.<
<daftykins> probably more a psychological response within the secretary at the practice herself, for chatting porkies
<sebsebseb> nk
<sebsebseb> hi
<daftykins> wb
<sebsebseb> daftykins: did you get a tablet Ubuntu?
<daftykins> no i'm not interested, remember
<sebsebseb> daftykins: what since not complete?
<daftykins> i don't do tablets, personally
<daftykins> nor desktop Linux
<sebsebseb> ah right well FHD was sold out earlier on today, I guess a lot of fan boys out there wanting them so
<sebsebseb> HD still on sale
<daftykins> mmm nasty res ;)
<sebsebseb> what both of them?
<sebsebseb> FULL HD and HD?
<Azelphur> christel: oh for bonus points, I put up a review on NHS's website, they say that if you post a review and it gets rejected they'll say why, but it's rejected for things like naming names, beligerence, etc. I wrote a perfectly nice review - it got accepted, then a few hours later it got silently removed...weird.
<diddledan> HD = 640x480? :-p
<daftykins> no just the 1280x800 one
<diddledan> gah @ x800
<sebsebseb> daftykins: what the HD one is that?
<diddledan> at least do it in 16:9
 * daftykins blinks
<daftykins> well i'm not sure if i'm correct there, i think i opened someones link on these things the other day but i can't remember the specifics for sure
<sebsebseb> well looks like the HD one at least might still be avaialbe for pre order next week
 * sebsebseb didn't have enough spare money currently or would have pre orderd the FHD
<sebsebseb> they will re stock the FHD
<sebsebseb> eventually
<daftykins> i would genuinely say hold off and do it right
<daftykins> if i'm right on the res, that's a duck ;)
<diddledan> oh that's nice - Miguel just said "If you recently purchased xamarin you'll get a refund"
<ali1234> Azelphur: what ID do they expect you to produce?
<diddledan> more ducks!
<Azelphur> ali1234: they want proof of address for my girlfriend who just moved in
<daftykins> not only that, i had one for dinner Monday night in a restaurant!
<diddledan> :-o
<ali1234> what constitutes proof of address?
<daftykins> official source addressed to addressee
<Azelphur> ali1234: they didn't say
<Azelphur> but yea, I'd imagine what daftykins said
<ali1234> you didn';t ask?
<Azelphur> ali1234: did you read the paste? didn't really get much of a chance
<daftykins> you'd probably want to be on to her bank to get one despatched to get it done in general? if relevant, aside from all this
<diddledan> does a postal envelope with your name and address count? if so then I'm miss something from number 43
<Azelphur> she doesn't have an account yet, she's very light on ID honestly, she's gonna apply for a drivers license to get a bank account
<diddledan> (I never got around to figuring out where 43 was to pop it through her door :-p)
<daftykins> ah
<Azelphur> diddledan: hehe, could always break out gimp, not like they'd ever check it anyway.
<ali1234> i don't want to read the pastebin it will just make me angry
<Azelphur> haha probably \o/
<diddledan> Azelphur: well if we're opening Pandora's box then I recommend an official SIS/MI5 ID card along with a letter that you're investigating the practice for whatever-her-name-was-that-you-spoke-to is exhibiting extremist behaviour
<Azelphur> hahaha
<diddledan> omg Harry Potter is on MS Build right now
<diddledan> oh dear. bloomin Germans with their OW dio
<diddledan> instead of audio
<diddledan> maybe they should rename audio to "son-of-a...dio"
<daftykins> worked with a local guy that pronounced it like that o0
<diddledan> yeah but you're continental
<daftykins> :O
<diddledan> blooming frogs
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> sacrÃ© blÃ©u
<diddledan> wee
<diddledan> weewee
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> ah this is so nice VPN'ing to a clients via a synology NAS
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> he'd asked about having his docs available on the go, but given the # of laptops and considering things like dropbox are inappropriate due to the biz content, i eventually just ran it in-house with what we already had
<diddledan> I like VPN networks
<daftykins> now his laptops can just connect home to Guernsey from wherever he is
<daftykins> network networks ;D
<diddledan> as in a proper vpn where it's private and not "commercial tunnel to give you a different public IP"
<diddledan> I want a VPN to give me access to multiple devices that I normally can't when I'm out-n-about. I don't care for the "circumvent the cops' snoopers" tunnels
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> true business use case
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> e.g. all our servers have ssh running on a private IP only which is exposed via openvpn. so we need to connect to the vpn and then we're a citizen on our internal net
<diddledan> although technically that's not "we" anymore now that I'm just a contractor on an adhoc basis, but I do still have access to their entire setup
<daftykins> you've done a runner!?
<diddledan> nope, they laid me off
<daftykins> :(
<diddledan> that was my xmas prezzie if you recall
<daftykins> i did not!
<daftykins> or do not
<diddledan> got to a few days before xmas and they were like "we no have work for j00"
<daftykins> that's such rude timing
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> their explanation was that the main client I was supporting had gone away
<diddledan> I'm still needed to maintain the Gentoo boxes though so until those get replaced with Ubuntu I have some work
<daftykins> it would be a real shame if that project took longer than originally expected ;)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I just spent best part of 16 hours upgrading openssl on those
<daftykins> oof, why so lengthy?
<diddledan> Gentoo
<ali1234> got to recompile openssl, and then got to recompile everything linked against it
<ali1234> which is like everything
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> ricer mode indeed
<m0nkey_> w00t. i fouond a curly wurly in downtown montreal :D
<daftykins> that has two meanings!
<m0nkey_> the chocolate covered toffy
<m0nkey_> holy crap, it's actually made in england
<m0nkey_> that means it will set on fire
<daftykins> best call it a hover curly wurly
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqQ6Z-HmAqY
<daftykins> diddledan: apparently this nugget appeared in ubuntu - cristian_ | can i share wife like a hotspot with other computer?
<m0nkey_> the obvious answer is: yes
<daftykins> when ignoring the typo, you mean?
<daftykins> :>
<m0nkey_> :)
<diddledan> daftykins: are you supposed to read that as "I can! I share wife like a hotspot with other computer."
<daftykins> it's deliciously open to interpretation
<diddledan> I'm guessing she's in promiscuous mode
<m0nkey_> Does she have enough bandwidth?
<daftykins> a slap might result from enquiring about her tubes
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0C59pI_ypQ
<daftykins> i had quite the sad on hearing that news this morning
<daftykins> 2016 shall go down as a real killer
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-01
<terran> Hello?
<daftykins> hi
<terran> anybody out there? Oh, hello
<daftykins> mornin'
<terran> oh god, it IS the morning, lost track of time
<m0nkey_> Monster hunter: http://imgur.com/0yYhBru
<daftykins> digging the Cookie Monster's new hairdo
<terran> did she kill the cookie monster and wear its skin!?
<daftykins> yes ;_;
<mappps> whys there no shop near me open
<mappps> im hungry!
<zmoylan-pi> no 24hour garages that sell food?
<mappps> yea
<mappps> but
<mappps> its like 25min walk
<mappps> i am tempted
<zmoylan-pi> always fun to try and buy the biggest box of cornflakes to watch them fit the box through the tiny slot in armoured glass...
<mappps> lol
<mappps> i think he ctual building is open
<mappps> here
<zmoylan-pi> even tescos don't do 24hour here anymore.  they ended up a nice big place for drug deals and hookers to stay dry and warm
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> did the managers wonder why there were so many folk just 'browsing' the shelves?
<zmoylan-pi> i think it was the baby oil and condoms aisle got _really_ busy...
<daftykins> surely such things don't go on in this modern world we live in, zmoylan-pi ?
<zmoylan-pi> i think some take bitcoin now...
<mappps> garages?
<mappps> really?
<zmoylan-pi> didn't some garage in usa offer teslas for bitcoin
<mappps> is btc stable atm?
<zmoylan-pi> hell no
<ali1234> actually bitcoin has been boringly stable for months now
<zmoylan-pi> makes the asyrian empire look stable...
<zmoylan-pi> haven't there been ddos and shurdowns of exchanges?
<ali1234> not recently
<zmoylan-pi> *shutdowns
<ali1234> not important ones
<ali1234> cryptsy shutdown but they were altcoin exchange
<daftykins> i thought that one guy said it had failed so everyone was going to slowly shut up shop
<ali1234> me might be right
<ali1234> but it will take a while before we find out
<zmoylan-pi> i just see the headlines... coinkite?
<ali1234> yeah no-one cares about them
<zmoylan-pi> and bitquick?
<daftykins> g'night all \o
 * daftykins trots off
<ali1234> never even heard of that one lol
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<ali1234> important exchanges/payment processors = bitstamp, coinbase, bitpay, huobi
<zmoylan-pi> as i say, i just see the headlines. not following closely. so could well be mickey mouse operations who jumped on band wagon
<ali1234> one of those goes down and you'll see proper price mvement
<ali1234> kraken, bitfinex, btc-e are also fairly large
<ali1234> btc-e is i think the only remaining exchange from sub-$10 times
<zmoylan-pi> that's a lot better than it was... https://www.coinbase.com/charts
<mappps> heres loads of other coins too
<ali1234> altcoins, yes
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder if been the preferred payment for ransomware helps stabilise things...
<ali1234> as of yet, none of them is even close to the adoption that bitcoin has seen
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: no, stability comes from the ability to do more complex trading than market orders, believe it or not
<mappps> i dont like the fact that it cant be recovered, so if i lost my wallet or whatever thats it tough
<ali1234> even though margin trading looks like gambling, when a lot of people do it, it in fact stabilizes the price
<ali1234> (and really it is gambling on an individual level)
<zmoylan-pi> until someone panics and starts a chain reaction... :-)
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> but with margin trading the effects are limited
<ali1234> and all that happens is the people doing it lose money
<ali1234> while the people who bet the other way... they make money
<ali1234> where as if you only have market orders, then everyone will try to dump at once
<mappps> hmm morrisons opens 8am
<mappps> think il ust go there at 8
<mappps> petrol station too far;p
<zmoylan-pi> wow most shops here open at 7
<zmoylan-pi> of course you have to step over every delivery service stuffing the shelves
<ali1234> hmm why doesn't lynx support <pre>
<ali1234> links supports it, but it doesn't support unicode
<ali1234> ah, elinks supports both
<ali1234> w3m also works properly
<zmoylan-pi> i thought elinks was dead at this point...
<ali1234> no idea
<zmoylan-pi> when i first set up the pi i looked at a few console based browsers and lynx was most updated iirc
<zmoylan-pi> was a few years ago mind
<ali1234> yeah. it ignored <pre> though
<ali1234> which is kind of ironic
<mappps> anyoe seen any good films recently?
<zmoylan-1i> no, but i can list 3 ancient films you haven't seen that will make you laugh...
<m0nkey_> go
<m0nkey_> you have 30 seconds..
 * m0nkey_ plays the countdown music
<zmoylan-1i> malcolm, the gods must be crazy,
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JVwo3D72cc
<m0nkey_> BZZT. Time's up!
<mappps> what fils zmoylan-1i
<mappps> ?:)
<mappps> films
<zmoylan-1i> malcolm, the gods must be crazy, real genius
<mappps> nevver heard of any of them!!
<zmoylan-1i> and if you watch and don't laugh i owe you a pint
<mappps> heh
<mappps> il imdb them now
<zmoylan-1i> the only weapon dumber than the nuclear bazooka... http://imgur.com/gallery/8SNK8nm
<mappps> hmm
<mappps> do you hae a tablet?
<mappps> looking at getting a new android tab
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> thank crunchie it's friday...
<AuroraAvenue> Happy Apr1st However it's also World Back up day .. https://twitter.com/lifehacker/status/715709950681563137
<AuroraAvenue> http://lifehacker.com/5961216/why-you-should-have-more-than-one-backup
<MooDoo> oh yeah it's friday indeed, 1:45 finish today :D
<zmoylan-pi> of course everything you read on line is automatically suspect due to it been 1st april
<MooDoo> yes agreed
<zmoylan-pi> and worse with all the timezones it lasts nearly 2 days
<AuroraAvenue> Right that's it I'm not moving all day |  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3516515/Villager-rock-won-t-roll-11-000-year-old-boulder-middle-road-not-moved-highway-chiefs-ruled-not-traffic-hazard.html
<MooDoo> :)
<DJones> the strange thing is, that boulder story isn't an April fool, it's been around for a few days
<MooDoo> yeah it's been sat there for years
<foobarry> i saw a thomas the tank engine episode about that
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Walk to Work Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it was take your swan to work day... https://twitter.com/DLMarina_Dublin/status/715824196312555520/photo/1
<MooDoo> walk walk?  are you mad/
<bigcalm> I have a 1 hour drive to work. Not sure I would want to walk it
<bigcalm> (on the motorway that is)
<zmoylan-pi> we'd provide puppies to amuse you on your walk...
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Obvious 'shop is obvious
<zmoylan-pi> its supposed to be a little obvious on 1st apr
<TwistedLucidity> I prefer the ones that are less obvious
<diplo> Just had my first April fools joke played on me :)
<TwistedLucidity> The proposed "Quantum Astrology" 2016 Christmas lecture did make me giggle though.
<diplo> New girlfriend saying she was pregnant :P
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: I hope you reacted in an acceptable manner. i.e. didn't run away screaming
<diplo> I replied with Wooohoooo!!!!!
<diplo> Not sure what was the funniest part, my reaction or her doing it, she wasn't ready for that :P
<TwistedLucidity> If you'd thought fast you could have said "Cripes! Not another one...oh...whoopsie"
<diplo> heh, I am not that quick :)
<zmoylan-pi> or a comeback how you just found out that you were related... :-P
<diplo> hah - I'll remember that for next time :)
<zmoylan-pi> we'll call the child... flipper...
<bigcalm> popey: love your rebuttal to Pete Cannon. No like button on email though
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/3/31/1108
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: Pete been stirring again?
<bigcalm> Wolvs LUG mailing list. A discussion about _Ubuntu_ on Windows
<MooDoo> i'll be interested when it's windows on ubuntu ;)
 * TwistedLucidity ambles off to see if list is public
<MooDoo> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/wolves/
<bigcalm> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/wolves/2016-March/thread.html
<TwistedLucidity> That's exactly where I am now...
<bigcalm> And today's is in the 2016-April archive
<MooDoo> I'm just reading now
<Myrtti> ahhahhaha
<Myrtti> nice.
<TwistedLucidity> It's not BASH but a BASH-a-like? That makes more sense.
<TwistedLucidity> I'll probably end up using it at some point, but I'd prefer to use Ubuntu (or CentOS or...) and simply not have MS' toxicity in the mix.
<TwistedLucidity> The remain hostile to F/OSS and any dealings with MS should be treat with utmost caution.
<MooDoo> hopefully they will do a switcharoo and bring visual studio/xamarin to linux
<MooDoo> instead of the visual studio code thing that's available
<popey> :) bigcalm
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Wasn't there some Xamarin announcement recently?
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: yeah microsoft bought them, and xamarin just release all their toos for free either with or without visual studio
<MooDoo> https://www.xamarin.com/platform - TwistedLucidity download now for free :)
<mallard> >
<mallard> Xamarin.Android uses just-in-time compilation for sophisticated runtime optimization of your appâs performance, meaning your app is a native Android APK.
<mallard> Doesn't this mean that the APK files are going to be massive?
<bashrc_> if ms bought xamarin does that mean they bought mono?
<MooDoo> i'm guessing whatever xamarin own/created ms own now
<bashrc_> if that's true then mono comes home at last
<zmoylan-pi> i always thought mono was an unwanted orphan?
<bashrc_> it was, pretty much
<popey> I always thought it was very much a wanted orphan
<popey> but the free software community had a wasp up it's collective arse about it
<popey> no thanks to people like Roy on techrights
<popey> People fought hard to push Mono out of Linux distros.
<popey> Short sighted.
<bashrc_> there were always doubts about mono, because its implementation went far beyond the ecma specification
<bashrc_> so anyone distributing a mono app could have MS lawyers going after them
<popey> oh please
<popey> that was the story always spun by anti-mono brigade
<popey> *nothing* ever happened
<popey> and mono and things built with it, were Free Software
<bashrc_> ms have done plenty of stuff in relation to patents
<popey> yet the free software world didn't like it.
<popey> not mono
<bashrc_> for me it was just too entwined with microsoft. Too risky
<zmoylan-pi> you don't have to do legal action to cause a dampening of enthusiasm... see ms android patents...
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc_: Yes, the patent threat is probably the biggest risk in any dealing with MS. Some deptartments (e.g. Azure) might like F/OSS, but the company still has a massive anti-freedom culture
<bashrc_> that said, as a technology I thought mono was ok
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc_: "Java done a bit better"
<bashrc_> yes, that kind of thing
<zmoylan-pi> as a technology i heard some really nice things about it... but it felt... tainted...
<bashrc_> indeed
<bashrc_> like a trap :)
<TwistedLucidity> Unless MS legal issued a notice that said "Mono is patent free and we will never sue" and I missed it, using it is a risk.
<zmoylan-pi> i think they did that in the end... but it was too late by then
<bashrc_> I think they did issue a promise at some point, but promises aren't legally enforcible
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, back in 2009
<zmoylan-pi> likewise i hope the ubuntu on windows doesn't hurt canonical as so many companies that do deals with ms get icky end of the stick
<foobarry> is it a deal or just a project one guy did with an MS team?
<TwistedLucidity> Found some stories about the whole patent promise thing. Yeah, seems like the concern was that Mono implemented some stuff that extended beyond the scope of said promise.
<TwistedLucidity> So whilst MS did nothing, what they /could/ have done and could still do is the issue.
<TwistedLucidity> Disclaimer: I am a pessimist
<zmoylan-pi> and i think TwistedLucidity is an optimist... :-)
<dwatkins> I was looking up the meaning of PGP's "Alien-level encryption", and Google told me that MartijnVdS talked about this on here a while ago. Hello folks, long time no see.
<bashrc> I think the mono ship has already sailed. Fortunately, other languages are available.
<bashrc> alien-level?
<bashrc> does that mean I publish my public key to the mothership?
<dwatkins> bashrc: yeah, I think PGP talks about 1024-bit keys as being really difficult to break, suggesting it would need very advanced technology
<dwatkins> no, don't do that - someone might hack into it with an old Macbook.
<bashrc> also depends on the algorithm. ECC has shorter key lengths
<dwatkins> just had someone ask about using a 2048-bit key, which seemed excessive to me, but I guess it depends on all sorts of factors and how you're using it.
 * dwatkins tries to get his head around Shibboleth
<TwistedLucidity> 4096 key, 8192 key...they all fall with a hammer to the knee caps.
<bashrc> For the last few years I've been using 4096bit RSA keys for PGP and general encryption (eg of backups)
<dwatkins> ouch, yeah
<zmoylan-pi> rot13 for durability... if it was good enough for caesar... :-)
<dwatkins> double rot13 for extra encryption!
<bashrc> caesar cypher :)
<zmoylan-pi> exactly!!
<bashrc> but I think most, if not all, the encryption we use today is vulnerable to any near future quantum cryptanalysis with enough qbits
<dwatkins> I fixed the colours in xmountains, is there any point me submitting my fork to the repos, seeing as it uses an outdated method of drawing to the desktop in X11?
 * zmoylan-pi parses all my important messages into ogham... :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham
<dwatkins> "The vast majority of the inscriptions consist of personal names." - so it was a language of graffiti
<bashrc> killjoy woz here
<dwatkins> sounds pretty neat to me, a language made up from people's names
<dwatkins> "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra"
<zmoylan-pi> there's a bit in turkey that says olaf was ere essentially iirc
<zmoylan-pi> but you can scratch server passwords on case of pc and it just looks like scratches... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> saves a fortune on post its...
<dwatkins> nice idea, although you're a bit restricted in the character-set
<dwatkins> no letter 'p' either
<zmoylan-pi> irish works around lack of letters by substituting others
<zmoylan-pi> it all makes sense when you hear irish place names been pronounced correctly
<diddledan> http://www.samsung.com/uk/galaxy-ltd
<diddledan> fun new apple music advert: https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/715880947195863040
<daftykins> you can't put 'fun' and 'apple' in the same sentence!
<diddledan> you can when it involves the tay
<zmoylan-pi> that's just tacky... this gold plated... http://imgur.com/gallery/8SNK8nm
<zmoylan-pi> whoops wrong channel....
<diddledan> https://www.digitalocean.com/company/blog/introducing-cloudsound/
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: even though it's the wrong channel it's still fun
<diddledan> lol - just read the description talking about typo causing it to originally say termite cannon
<daftykins> thermite indeed
<daftykins> for about 2 seconds i was imagining termites being explosive ;D
<daftykins> now i want a DO hoodie :<
<diddledan> DO EET#
<daftykins> i'm not sure you even can
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ALySsPXt0
<diddledan> I can't "even". does that count?
 * daftykins blinks
<bigcalm> "Maybe we should start a WLUG (not Wolves) But Windows and Linux user Group?"  -  most amusing thing I've read today :)
<daftykins> would be nice if folk from both 'camps' could just get along, all the childish comments i see about Windows are quite tiresome
<diddledan> daftykins: windows is a fisher-price OS
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> XP sure was ;)
<diddledan> blue plastic!
<daftykins> reet time to throw Kodi on this new Amazon FireTV :>
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> it's going in the clients' wee ones room
<daftykins> his nanny went to play a DVD the other day and the unit had locked up! impressive for just a player
<diddledan> why does every business have to write a clause into their digital usage policies that disclaim all liability to everything evar? surely it would be better for lawmakers to clarify what is and isn't applicable rather than every business employing liars to reinvent the wheel every time a new service starts
<diddledan> the bbc store's is intriguing. they effectively state: "we won't pay nothing ever. oh, that is unless the law says we have to, in which case ignore the previous statement."
<diddledan> they even have wording that says "we're not responsible! oh there's a law that says we can't say that... we're not responsible except for things that says we're not allowed to say we're not responsible for."
<diddledan> that the law**
<daftykins> BBC store? is that the bit that flogs bluray sets etc?
<diddledan> no, it's a digital equiv tho
<diddledan> they sell you a license rather than a disc
<diddledan> complete with DRM
<diddledan> https://store.bbc.com/
<mappps> hi#
<daftykins> diddledan: nasty
<diddledan> so much for being a "public service broadcaster" :-p
<diddledan> they'll even sell you stuff that is on the iplayer
<zmoylan-pi> on the other hand they created the hitchhikers show as a comedy...
<daftykins> diddledan: moar duck - https://i.imgur.com/89nBsPJ.jpg
<diddledan> quack
<ndf> So...
<ndf> 'predictable interface names'
<ndf> pff
<ndf> EVERYTHING is predicting eth0, not en2984180502398uj
<ndf> arf
<ndf> and now... replace every hardcoded conf
<ndf> >'predictable'
<ndf> oh the irony
<ndf> so annoyed
<daftykins> isn't it fun
<daftykins> not sure who had the bright idea there
<ndf> well I can tell you it's not a bright one
<daftykins> :>
<ndf> here I was scratching my head
<ndf> then all of a sudden ifconfig slapped me in the face with a "oh, wtf is this?"
<daftykins> in fairness it's the ideal day of the year for it
<daftykins> ;)
<ndf> haha
<ndf> well, they say it's bad luck after 12pm
<ndf> joke shoulda been over hours ago
<daftykins> that's true
<ali1234> that the default on 16.04 then?
<ndf> 15.10
<ali1234> my eth0 is still called eth0
<ndf> did you dist-upgrade from 15.04?
<ali1234> yes
<ndf> that'll probably be why then
<ndf> you already had your NICs set up in 15.04 as per the old scheme
<ali1234> i wish they'd make predictable v4l names
<ali1234> its really annoying that all my devices get switched around on every reboot
<ndf> if by predictable you mean enp0spoiqwjrf9uq23r then no, you don't
<ali1234> that would suit me fine
<ndf> you call that predictable, too?
<ndf> jeeeez
<ali1234> it never changes, that is the only property i require
<ndf> I would much rather that my configs still knew what cards they were talking about
<ali1234> yeah, that's what i want
<ndf> so we want to go back to eth0/wlan0
<ndf> that's what /I/ call predictable, anyway
<ndf> by predictable I mean every config I ever had was already predicting that
<ali1234> you can't pedect what the device node for my capture card will be after the next reboot. nobody can
<ali1234> it will be /dev/video0 1 2 3 or 4
<ali1234> completely at random
<ndf> so now, do I try and find every config containing eth*/wlan* and edit them all? or do I find a way to rename the card back to eth0/wlan0?
<daftykins> my understanding was that an upgrade from 15.04 -> 15.10 kept upstart no? so didn't change scheme
<ali1234> you find a way to rename it back to eth0
<ali1234> daftykins: no, it definitely installs systemd
<ndf> daftykins: yeah he was saying his cards are still eth0...
<ali1234> and uses it
<daftykins> oh
<ndf> hm
<ndf> must be during setup then
<daftykins> maybe i'm thinking 14.10 -> 15.04
<daftykins> see now i'm banned from giving help i'm rusting :)
<ali1234> 15.04 doesn't use systemd at all
<ali1234> at least i don't think it does
<ali1234> i fresh installed 15.04 anyway
<ali1234> and upgraded to 15.10
<ali1234> wait actually that might be wrong
<ali1234> i think i upgraded from 14.04 to 15.04 and then did a fresh install of 15.10
<ndf> well in that case your cads should be all enp0s*
<ali1234> InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 15.04 "Vivid Vervet" - Release amd64 (20150422.1)
<ali1234> so i did upgrade
<ndf> I hope a lot of people sent that bright spark some emails saying "B-b-but... my configs! =("
<ali1234> lennart gets more hate mail than anyone in FOSS so i'm sure they did
<ali1234> (most of it well deserved)
<ndf> well yeah, if this is the sort of thing he likes to do to all the poor devs
<ali1234> i think systemd is great
<ndf> it might be, but my configs!
<ali1234> systemd vs wayland is a really interesting comparison
<ali1234> they are both trying to fix years of technical debt
<ali1234> systemd has been far more successful in a shorter amount of time
<ali1234> that counts for a lot in my opinion
<ndf> well the only thing I've noticed through the change is a massive negative in my opinion
<ndf> I don't know what else it does except ruin my configs
<ndf> lol
<ali1234> the only change i noticed is that dmesg is now in colour
<daftykins> change when it doesn't seem like it's necessary is always going to seem like a pig though, right?
<ndf> i don't mind change as long as there are a list of good points to outweigh ruining my configs
<daftykins> i thought a lot of folk suffered from interface ordering jumping about through upgrades, or such like
<ndf> I just don't know what they are
<ali1234> your configs suck
<ali1234> sorry but they do
<ndf> *OpenVPNs configs suck
<ndf> I didn't make it
<ali1234> if you have more than one interface and you are using  kernel device names, you are going to get burned eventually
<ndf> hey tell that to the developers of all the configs I have looking for eth0/wlan0
<ali1234> maybe you should tell them :)
<ali1234> open a bug report if something doesn't work with systemd
<ali1234> systemd devs aren't going to listen to random users. but they will listen to developers
<ali1234> same goes for wayland
<ndf> but the point is the system has changed but none of the other packages have
<ndf> it's not a bug to file with systemd saying their system doesn't work
<ndf> it's that the software running on it hasn't caught up
<ali1234> it hasn't really changed if you did a fresh install
<ndf> i.e: you're suggesting I submit a bug report about systemd to the developer of every software package that hasn't updated their configs to reflect that
<ali1234> i can guarantee you that openvn or whatever will not get fixed nobody reports a bug
<ali1234> no i am only sggesting you report it for the software that you actually use
<ali1234> in any case, you can rename interfaces however you want now
<ali1234> so just rename it to eth0 and everything will be fine
<ndf> I just read that even if I disable the naming scheme on systemd I still can't use eth* it would have to be somethingelse*
<ali1234> clearly not true since my eth0 is still called eth0
<ali1234> i don't know how it works but it does
<diddledan> lol.. I'm watching pixels - cubert is cute
<ali1234> pls no
<ndf> but if you just did a dist-upgrade from 15.04 you already had them named like that
<ndf> mine have always been systemd names
<ndf> fresh 15.10
<ali1234> ndf: right. so it is possible to have your ethernet named eth0 under systemd
<ndf> yes you're totally missing what I'm saying
<ali1234> what exactly are you saying?
<ali1234> it sounds like you are saying that you can't rename your network card to eth0
<diddledan> if you have eth0 _before_ upgrading to an ubuntu which uses predictable network device names then it will remain eth0 after the upgrade
<ali1234> correct
<ali1234> thus proving that it is possible for the network card to be named eth0 under systemd
<diddledan> I don't think it's related to systemd
<diddledan> udev is the thing that renames them IIRC
<ali1234> udev is part of systemd now
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> meh
<diddledan> so systemd actually _is_ turning into the BORG collective then? :-p
<ali1234> yes?
<diddledan> yey?
<ali1234> at least it works
<diddledan> true
<ali1234> i very much doubt that systemd has built in code which detects if you upgrade from 15.04 to 15.10 and allows you to rename your network card as eth0 in only that specific circumstance
<diddledan> no the upgrader sets udev rules telling it to rename
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> actually the udev rules come from the 15.04 installer, and they just continue to be honoured in 15.10
<ali1234> so all you have to do is write a udev rule and you get eth0 back on a fresh install
<diddledan> I _think_ that if you were to interrupt before udev rules get played then the kernel rules will take precedence which afaik are the predictable names
<ali1234> that is what would happen on systemd/udev < 197
<ali1234> on 197+ you get the new predictable name if you don't have any custom udev rules
<ali1234> you can disable this behaviour with the kernel command line though
<ali1234> or just write udev rules
<diddledan> right, again I believe, the predictable names are a kernel feature but an uptodate udev can override to whatever you desire
<ali1234> no they aren't a kernel feature, they come from systemd-udev
<diddledan> ok
 * diddledan tries to commit that to the memory banks so I sound more clever-git next time I try to waffle :-p
<ali1234> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
<diddledan> aah, good reference, thanks
<ali1234> lists three different ways to stop it from happening too
<diddledan> lol, I like that one of the fixes is to create a config file symlinked to /dev/null
<ali1234> yeah not sure about that
<ali1234> i wonder if just an empty file works
<ali1234> i suppose the reason for linking to /dev/null is to prevent the file from accidentally getting created by a package manager or something
<ali1234> so that's actually kind of sensible
<mappps> hi
<terran> aurghh can't get past the terms and conditions of teamspeak on the terminal! typing 'yes' doesnt do anything, it's rather strange
<aruns> Hi.
<aruns> Which IRC channel is best for asking questions about problems with a specific application that I am running on Ubuntu?
<aruns> The application in question is AMPPS.
<directhex> transferring data from old NAS to new one
<directhex> 500GB down, 2.5TB to go...
<daftykins> directhex: from one to the other or is a computer on the network handling it? :>
<directhex> daftykins: i didn't see an option on the new one to do samba mounts... but there *is* on the old ARM based one
<directhex> so the new NAS is mounted on the old one
<directhex> & the copy is a background task on that
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> what type do you tend to go for?
<directhex> i went from a 1-bay synology to a 4-bay qnap
<daftykins> hmm, how does it compare? i've always gone synology and just updated a couple to DSM 6.0
<directhex> ds112j -> ts453mini
<directhex> i think synology has a slicker experience. lots of the functionality on the qnap feels a bit bolted on. like... dnla settings spawns a different webapp in a new tab. so does youtube downloads
<directhex> but
<directhex> functionality seems *crazy* more powerful
<daftykins> o0
<directhex> like... i can configure per-client auto-transcoding settings based on the client's MAC
<directhex> (e.g. mp4 only for chromecast, mkv for xbone)
<daftykins> hrmm
<m0nkey_> heh, only a celeron for a nas?
<daftykins> to be honest i'd never use any of that
<directhex> m0nkey_: that is *crazy* powerful compared to the normal single-or-dual-core-ARMv5 found in NAS
<daftykins> the celeron name has actually been attached to some quite capable chips (for some HTPC duties)
<m0nkey_> directhex, you'll hate my nas then :)
<directhex> daftykins: docker/kvm/lxc/xen management? :p
<diddledan> m0nkey_: your nas is beastly
<daftykins> hmm i think the RAM limitations would crop up too quickly
<m0nkey_> >:)
<daftykins> it's not a NAS if it's not an appliance really :P
<daftykins> at least in my head
<m0nkey_> I consider mine an appliance
<daftykins> if it's got general purpose hardware, naaaaah
<m0nkey_> That qnap is Intel.. it could be made to run Windows. Same concept. :)
<directhex> actually, they support it
<directhex> virtualised, but still
<m0nkey_> http://imgur.com/a/Ed2Sg <-- the nas
<directhex> https://www.qnap.com/event/qvpc/uk/
<daftykins> why does my laptop think it's 11pm o0
 * daftykins checks the island isn't floating away
<directhex> daftykins: dual boot?
<daftykins> nah
<diddledan> daftykins: you're further east?
<daftykins> no sir
<diddledan> west*
<diddledan> I suck at directions
<m0nkey_> diddledan, I want to add more drives to my nas
<m0nkey_> However, I'm low on SATA ports
<diddledan> I always figure the planet is rotating in the opposite direction to facts
<diddledan> :-(
<directhex> m0nkey_: add a 12-bay USB 3 caddy!
<daftykins> thunderbolt!
<diddledan> e.g. I always think rockets launched on the east coast of merrycar go over the mainland, when they actually go over the puddle
<m0nkey_> I'll most likely move it to this case: http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-q26/
<daftykins> diddledan: never know, if they accepted the lowest bid... ;)
<directhex> daftykins: lots of NAS appliances support external expansion packs. this one "only" supports 8-bay USB3 expansion
<diddledan> blinkin nora, m0nkey_ , that's huge
<directhex> daftykins: we have a synology at work with a many-bay Infiniband attached expansion
<m0nkey_> it only takes a mini-itx board
<directhex> when i were a wee lad i had a NAS in a http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2005/12/06/either_way_atx_or_btx_cases/stacker-for-back.jpg
<directhex> 8 disk raid5!
 * diddledan doesn't mention the shoving of disks into anyone's box
<m0nkey_> Gah.
<daftykins> directhex: i still do XD
<m0nkey_> Nobody does RAID5 anymore
<m0nkey_> That died when >1TB drives came out
<daftykins> nah RAID6 minimum really
<directhex> indeed
<directhex> but we did in 2006
<diddledan> I miss the days of nicely formed cases that have the sharp edges folded around and made safe
<m0nkey_> I've got 4 drives in mine, RAIDZ2, that's RAID6.
<daftykins> i'm still running a 6 disk RAID5 :P
<directhex> i've done 4-disk RAID10 in the new NAS
<m0nkey_> directhex, that's good for IO
<m0nkey_> But I'm storing family photos, home movies of my kids, etc
<directhex> i went way over-spec, as the old NAS has serious IO issues
<m0nkey_> So I didn't want the wrong two drives in a pair going bad
<directhex> like... i can't stream blu-ray rips realtime from it
<daftykins> as in 1:1 from disc?
<m0nkey_> Heh, my old Synology was nice, but yeah.. was slow. Some Marvell processor I recall.
<directhex> so i went craaaaaaaaaazy over my needs, to guarantee lots and lots of slack
<m0nkey_> directhex, I hear ya
<diddledan> m0nkey_: biggest issue you'll have in adding disks will be the decision of how to organise them all - i.e. you can't change the dimensions of your current raidz so the advice is IIRC to duplicate it with an identically-shaped second raidz2
<m0nkey_> My home built NAS is way overkill for my needs.
<directhex> daftykins: right. old NAS seems to max out at around 15mbit/sec transfer rate for reading large sequential data
<m0nkey_> diddledan, exactly
<daftykins> directhex: wow
<m0nkey_> 4 more drives in a vdev, then add extend the existing pool.
<directhex> daftykins: 15mbit is not enough to watch a blu-ray, which can easily be several times higher
<daftykins> might as well be sshfs mounts
<m0nkey_> So, two RAIDZ2 vdevs in one pool
<daftykins> directhex: you're doing that thing where you preach to the choir
<directhex> daftykins: i believe that's called "manspaining" these days ;)
<m0nkey_> Damn thing is fast :) Xeon rocks.
<m0nkey_> But that's enough e-Penis waving.
<daftykins> in a home box? lulwat
<directhex> m0nkey_: i am fine with what i spent building this
<m0nkey_> :)
<directhex> m0nkey_: about Â£1100 total including 4 5GB 7200RPM NAS disks, and 8GB RAM
<m0nkey_> Heh, Think mine came to just shy of $2000.
<m0nkey_> But that was two years ago
<directhex> right. gone midnight. BED.
<directhex> this is not going to finish any time soon.
<m0nkey_> A good NAS will be expensive, but it will last years. Mine has two years on the clock already, none of the disks are showing any signs of problems.
<directhex> i had a DOA disk :'(
<m0nkey_> :(
<directhex> and qnap drop you in read-only as soon as your array isn't happy, so you can't start with pre-degraded RAID1
<m0nkey_>   9 Power_On_Hours          -O--CK   075   075   000    -    18313
<directhex> Linux prismo 3.12.6 #1 SMP Fri Mar 11 04:40:28 CST 2016 x86_64 unknown
<directhex> BLEEDING EDGE
<m0nkey_> They've been spinning 24x7 for 2.09 years
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i have a stack of 8 x 2TB WD RE2-GP's that've been spinning for 6 years solid, not sure what to even do with them now
<daftykins> er at a clients* i forgot to add
<diddledan> o/
<daftykins> diddledan: you want some disks that'll last a week? :>
<directhex> Power_On-Hours is....... 0xb!
<diddledan> lol
<directhex> so 11 hours!
<directhex>  00:16:01 up 10:39, load average: 3.60, 2.98, 2.59
<directhex> yup!
<m0nkey_> [root@tardis] ~# uptime
<m0nkey_>  7:17PM  up 8 days, 11:55, 1 user, load averages: 0.54, 0.49, 0.43
<m0nkey_> but that's only because i rolled back an update
<directhex> *BED*
<m0nkey_> go
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-02
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> morning
<brobostigon> morning diddledan
<ndf> directhex: that qnap QvPC thing is pretty awesome...
<sebsebseb> hi
<ndf> ahoy, ahoy!
<sebsebseb> ndf: hi
<sebsebseb> anyone buy the Ubuntu tablet here?
<sebsebseb> I guess popey did but anyone else
<popey> i didnt
<zmoylan-pi> ...yet... :-)
<popey> :)
<popey> I just got given another bq e4.5
<popey> got 4 of them now
<sebsebseb> popey: you got given by whom?
<sebsebseb> popey: also whta'st the differece really between the bq global and worldwide stores that's a bit confussing
<sebsebseb> oh  e4.5 the first one yeah, not the HD
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah the 4.5 is the rejcted phone now so :d
<ndf> you running any of them on android?
<sebsebseb> ndf: I doubt he would
<sebsebseb> popey: oh yeah that was a great Linux VOice interview :d
<sebsebseb> where it als o said you don't like Android much
<ndf> I quite like Marshmallow
<ndf> I got me a Nexus 6P (the new huawei one)
<ndf> sexy beast
<sebsebseb> Android is a bit uh well the second you start installing apps
<ndf> not mine
<sebsebseb> suddenly get adverts all over  the phone
<sebsebseb> and
<sebsebseb> also apps want access to pretty much evertyhing most of them
<sebsebseb> so much for privacy
<ndf> not if you are sensible about what you install
<sebsebseb> yes let's have  access to your photo gallery etc
<ndf> you can detect ad packages in each app and decide what you want to uninstall
<ndf> and in marshmallow
<ndf> you can restrict permissions
<sebsebseb> ndf: can you, that must be new
<sebsebseb> for add thing
<ndf> and alow specific things for each app
<sebsebseb> permissins  I did read that in marshmellow could do something
<sebsebseb> ,but older Androids nope so
<ndf> ...would you run Windows 3.1?
<ndf> don't run old android.
<sebsebseb> Android may have Linux in the background, but it also tighes people to Google hmm
<ndf> not really
<sebsebseb> ndf: would I run Windows 3.1 yep sometimes :d  well via the stuff on arhcieve.org :)
<ndf> lol
<sebsebseb> you seen that
<ndf> you don't have to use gmail and google calendar if you don't want to
<sebsebseb> you can basically run Windows 3.1 now and lots of the old programs online now in a browser
<sebsebseb> you can play the old solitare with the old decks, play around in the old paint, and much more
<ndf> well for the same reason you don't like old android, I wouldn't bother with Win3x
<ndf> lol
<ndf> you get what I'm saying
<sebsebseb> ndf: the onlien stuff is intersting
<sebsebseb> ndf: for an actsaul install though same I woudn't bother with that either
<ndf> ...so check
<ndf> out
<ndf> Marshmallow
<ndf> lol sry didn't mean to press enter
<sebsebseb> need some kind of device to run that buy somethign unless
<ndf> twice
<sebsebseb> unless
<sebsebseb> androix x86 maybe, oh right I got Remix OS anyay on that tablet nad Remix Mimin's based on that, so uhmm and good :)
<sebsebseb> ndf: Androdi is a bit well boring to now
<ndf> you can run it in a vm if you don't want to shell out on a device
<sebsebseb> ndf: since Android is all over the place in the main streame
<sebsebseb> in the main strmeae is only really two options proper ones, that's Iphone, and Android
<sebsebseb> Windows phone sort of in some places, but hardly so nope
 * sebsebseb has sit on the bus for example plenty of times now, hearing people getting a text on Android etc
<ndf> ?
<sebsebseb> ndf: Android is boring
<sebsebseb> or mostly
<ndf> ...because you hear people receive a message?
<ndf> eh!?
<sebsebseb> no
<sebsebseb> no
<ndf> lol
<sebsebseb> just since it's got popualr last few years etc
<sebsebseb> it's boring
<sebsebseb> we need something new
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu? Jolla? Firefox uhmm right htey don't target phones anymore
<ndf> lol so linux became popular a long time ago, why don't you leave here?
<zmoylan-pi> there's still a _lot_ of dumbphones about
<sebsebseb> an Open SUse phone I read something about yesteraddy beifuly or that was an April fools
<ndf> aren't you bored of ubuntu and windows
<ndf> get a mac pfff
<ndf> lol
<ndf> you're ridiculous
<sebsebseb> ndf: for a desktop I am bored of Ubuntu sure
<sebsebseb> ndf: but Unity 8 should come soon to desktop as well and Mir then things will get interesting  ish again for Ubuntu
<zmoylan-pi> but if i had a choice of os i'd probably at this stage want emacs os on a phone... :-)
<sebsebseb> ndf: and I would normally run something else on computers distro wise
<sebsebseb> for now
<sebsebseb> ,but  I care less about this stuff, so actsaully been running Ubuntu a bit longer than inteded on this lap top since...  plus was going to re set everything up agian WIndows the whole lot, I just haven't done it yet
<popey> thanks sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> popey: the LInux voice thing you meant?
<ndf> my poiunt was every reason you've given for disliking android is on older versions, I suggested to try Marshmallow and you don't want to check it out because 'oh, it's popular now'
<popey> ya
<popey> friend gave me the e4.5
<popey> rejected phone?
<sebsebseb> popey: it seemed a bit long when just seeing htep ages, it was like four pages uh? but then when reading it, it was like, uhmm there could have been more :) having some more would have been good
<popey> heh, appreciate that
<popey> we chatted for about 3 hours
<popey> he came over to my house to do the interview, chat and drink coffee
<sebsebseb> popey: well there's the Meizu MX 4 for those who have that :),  the BQ HD.  4.5 is the old first one.  there's the Meizu Pro 5 to soon I guessa
<sebsebseb> popey: yep seemed he had actsaully gone there going by the article
<popey> so they say
<popey> yeah, the photos are in my dining room :)
<sebsebseb> oh right
 * sebsebseb wonders why BQ has two stores aimed at the whole world or pretty much by the looksofit, but with confussing names global and worlwide.
<sebsebseb> what'st the diference?
<popey> no idea
<sebsebseb> popey: Isee the FHD came back in stock
<sebsebseb> popey: if it's still available like that onThursday I amintending onbuying
<sebsebseb> I think certainpeople willget disappaointed with those tablets or at first though
<sebsebseb> Oh I want to run  this and that native Ubuntu app,but oh can't just do it,got toput inread write mode?
<sebsebseb> read write mood I assume would belike runining root for everything in a  normal  distro?
<sebsebseb> hence why the security updates the over the air updats don't install to, if I read omg ubuntu right
<popey> the ota updates are a readonly image
<popey> making your device rw just means you switch off the ro flag
<popey> so you can fiddle with files or use apt
<sebsebseb> will do the over the air updates still install then?
<popey> yes
<popey> but you may lose your changes
<sebsebseb> oh changes when updating?
<sebsebseb> itw ill wipe them out?
<popey> well, you get a new root filesystem
<popey> maybe
<popey> depends what you do
<sebsebseb> not even sure how to put it in  read write mode right n ow, but I guess via terminal or something
<sebsebseb> Iguess there will be some articles about that soon, once people actasully get those tables
<popey> there's a command for it
<popey> its already well documented
<popey> no different than the phone
<popey> (It's the same software)
<sebsebseb> oh right ok
<sebsebseb> but yes it's the convergence that people want to playw ith a lot
<sebsebseb> running standard desktop programs on there
<popey> not sure that needs read-write mode
<popey> we'll see
<sebsebseb> maybe omg ubuntu was wrong then
<sebsebseb> but I Think most of the info they got was done via remours etc for tablet
<popey> well, i think the info they published was based on the unreleased images
<popey> it's not final yet
<sebsebseb> unreleased images?
<popey> yes, non-stable ones
<popey> not final
<sebsebseb> oh the dev stuff yeah
 * sebsebseb waits for Jolla re fund as well :d been about three weekks already after saying yes re fund
<popey> oh, you're not getting a tablet? Shame
<sebsebseb> indeed I am not one of the lucky ones in that sense, but what I have worked out is this :d
<sebsebseb> my Jolla phone that I bought on the
<sebsebseb> campagin for the tablet, that's going to basically become free once I get re funded
<sebsebseb> yep  I am getting re funded for that as well :) maybe I paid a little shipping orsomething, but yep it's basically going to bedcome free as well
<sebsebseb> popey: so I am getting about 200 pounds in the first lot of re fund, and then about 200 pounds again in the second, but myJolla phone basicaly becomes free as well as I was saying which is kind of nice really
<sebsebseb> popey: I think the tablets aren't going to be that supported now anyway, well ther will be softtware updadates for Jolla
<popey> what are jolla doing now then?
<popey> if they're not making hardware and not supporting their software?
<sebsebseb> they are supproign there OS
<sebsebseb> they are trying to refund those who are going to get re funded
<sebsebseb> and trying to get deals else where with hardware manufactures to it seems
<sebsebseb> to bring the OS to other hardware
<popey> oh
<sebsebseb> popey: I am about to have something interesting sent to me, that I crowd funded last year though :)
<popey> :)
<sebsebseb> popey oh what was that?
<sebsebseb> Arduboy
<popey> Hah, I ordered one too :)
<sebsebseb> I orederd five :d
<sebsebseb> one of each colour yep
<popey> !
<sebsebseb> plus I got two of the Tetris cards  pre orderd that
<sebsebseb> seems having a few has turend out to be a good idea for Arduboy since they can only acstaully run one game at once
<sebsebseb> and that going by a video I saw, putting on a differnet game can be a little tricky
<sebsebseb> popey: heh ! was in shock?
<sebsebseb> plus having  a few makes it easier to show certian people, if bother to do that :d
<popey> have you seen the little arduboy rpg?
<popey> Arduventure
<sebsebseb> one  of the games?
<sebsebseb> not really looked properly at the games yet, since not got a Arduboy yet, but when I got them
<sebsebseb> yep I will look properly at games for them
<sebsebseb> popey: how do you keep up with what's being corwd funded?
<sebsebseb> or you just look every now and again
<popey> mostly via what people post on twitter / G+
<popey> or reddit
<popey> now and then i look at "staff picks" or something
<popey> i follow a lot of people on twitter though so see a lot that way
<sebsebseb> ah right I see yeah
<sebsebseb> popey: well that nxdock is nearly funded
<sebsebseb> I think that's going to happen
<popey> blimey
<sebsebseb> why is that your response?
<sebsebseb> I think it will be useful for remix mini etc
<sebsebseb> rassbery pi etc
<sebsebseb> but yes it has  a bad resolution or so you think so you woudn't buy I know :d
<sebsebseb> popey: going to crowd fund it later :d  it's only like 84 pounds 119 is about 84 pounds
<sebsebseb> 119 dollars is about 84 pounds
<sebsebseb> they been really good at replying to most comments
<sebsebseb> not many acstaul project updates, but lots of replies in the comments yep
<sebsebseb> popey: so if that was a scam, tehy have done quite a bit to earn such a large amount of money heh
<popey> its an interesting device
<popey> just not something I'd use
<sebsebseb> I can see a useage so :)
 * penguin42 is still hmming about where to use to renew my .org registration - any suggestions?
<MartijnVdS> gandi.ent?
<MartijnVdS> net
<penguin42> used them yourself?
<MartijnVdS> yeah, I have all my domains there
<popey> +1 vote for gandi
<diddledan> 'ave a ganda @ gandi
<penguin42> nominate.com want 19.20 inc for 1 year which is exhorbitant, gandi are 13.64 inc for one year
<diddledan> is that a pun on nominet?
<penguin42> diddledan: Possibly; they've been around for a long time
<penguin42> how does Gandi do whois security   - do they automatically hide your details?
<diddledan> probably opt-in
<MartijnVdS> there's a flag for it
<MartijnVdS> they also do two-factor authentication, with TOTP
<penguin42> ah yes, they do a thing to hide it https://www.gandi.net/domain/whois/
<directhex> 2T down, 1 to go...
<directhex> and a *second* failed disk in the new array @_@
 * zmoylan-pi remembers my last seagate 3tb drive.  i had just filled it up from all the drives scattered around the house when it slowed down to speeds slower than serial transfers...
<penguin42> as good as low power flourescent bulbs then?
<zmoylan-pi> i think my spectrum transferred to tape faster...
<zmoylan-pi> though it's hard to find an audio cassette to hold 3tb of data to compare... :-P
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: And if there was one it would get to 2.9tb before scrunching up
<zmoylan-pi> not a problem i have a pencil
<penguin42> biros are better
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think i ever used a biro...
<zmoylan-pi> my hand writing was terrible _before_ i learned to program computers so my mother would not allow me to use biros
<zmoylan-pi> the extra friction from pencil and fountain pens made my hand writing more legible
<foobarry> got my star wars stuff out today
<foobarry> https://goo.gl/photos/As5gmKgsPhC8UAmD7
<foobarry> https://goo.gl/photos/AhV9u5w8rbRb2nx28
<penguin42> aren't the originals with boxes supposed to be worth something these days?
<foobarry> the last 17 ROTJ figures are pretty valuable
<foobarry> the xwing has a sticker sheet of unused stickers
<foobarry> the box is a bit damaged
<foobarry> i have a few last 17
<foobarry> a wing pilot, yak face, etc. not on card but with guns in mint codnition
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: surely all transfers to SATA or SAS disks are de facto slower than or equal to the speed of serial transfers, no?
<penguin42> hmm, Manchester will be holding the International Clouds & Precipitation conference
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-03
<mappps> hi all
<mappps> watching deal or no deal..how exciting;D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<knightwise> morning guys
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> so, i appear not to be the only one stuck behind the keyboard on this fine sunny day :p
<brobostigon> it was sunny here yesterday, its more cloudy here today.
<knightwise> looking at a sunny day here today .
<knightwise> Reinstalled my home server this week. Now settng up the final details :)
<knightwise> pretty cool thingie this Acer Revo
<knightwise> looks like a giant tictac
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> hardly any fan noise , not the fastest machine on the block but it runs plex and a couple of scripts flawlessy
<knightwise> hmm.. now to find out how to make some simlinks.
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> I have stored the config files for podget and newsbeuter in my dropbox folder . Now i have to figure out how to point to them
<brobostigon> i said its cloudy and that moment the sun shines through the window, oh well.
<dwatkins> I think my Ubuntu install needs an update, it's still running Saucy.
<knightwise> dwatkins: about time :)
<dwatkins> yeah, I rather like the wibbly windows - is there a way to do that on the most recent version?
<knightwise> time to walk the doggies for a bit :) bbl
<dwatkins> ciao
<popey> yes
<popey> switch to ubuntu mate
<dwatkins> okay dokey, also happy birthday popey :)
<popey> (if your machine is so old that it's on saucy, it'll probably run ubuntu mate fine)
<popey> it's not my birthday today, but thanks :)
<dwatkins> it's a core i7, should be fine
<popey> oh!  ð
<dwatkins> :)
<dwatkins> I wonder why my browser thought it was, strange.
<dwatkins> A Very happy unbirthday to (almost) everyone!
<MartijnVdS> I run Debian testing + Cinnamon on my desktop these days
<popey> (It's tomorrow)
<directhex> popey: hard disks suck :(
<popey> Yes.
<popey> 6 years old.
<directhex> popey: 2 failed disks less than 2 days old each!
<directhex> well, pre-fail
<directhex> SMART says "replace"
<popey> directhex: do you have any steam controllers?
<popey> One of mine flat refuses to work in game, but works fine in steam / overlay
<directhex> popey: 2!
<popey> I can't fathom what's up with it
<popey> i should plug directly into pc and try it actually
<penguin42> does asda.com look like it's lost it's css to anyone else?
<zmoylan-pi> looks a tad wonky on firefox on xubuntu
<zmoylan-pi> but looks fine in vivaldi my alternate browser
<zmoylan-pi> reload in firefox and... broken
<zmoylan-pi> fine in midori
 * zmoylan-pi goes looking for chromium...
<zmoylan-pi> and fine in chromium...
<zmoylan-pi> restart firefox... and broken
<penguin42> hmm that's the 2nd thing in 2 days that hasnt worked in ff but has in chrome
<zmoylan-pi> css... work...
<ali1234> surveymonkey.com
<ali1234> sorry, surveymonkey.co.uk is doing the same thing
<ali1234> no css in firefox
<ali1234> it looks as if ublock is blocking the css
<ali1234> different problem with asda though
<penguin42> but I don't have any of the blocking things
<popey> ali1234: have you ever played rust?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> popey: why do you ask?
<daftykins> i had some friends talking about it, so i thought i'd look up a video... it looks very basic
<ali1234> video might be old? it's been early access for like three years
<daftykins> as a concept really
<user_9876> http://adfoc.us/2542957954871
<daftykins> what is this...
<daftykins> mmhmm.
<penguin42> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-35953847 is very odd
<daftykins> hrmm very light on detail
<penguin42> yeh, as is the tweet from lancs police
<penguin42> it's odd that they haven't been able to wake someone from Santander
<ali1234> santander says they deactivated them. lancashire police says they haven't
<penguin42> oh, I hadn't seen anything from Santander
<ali1234> it's on the same article
<ali1234> my guess is the police removed a load of skimmers, told santander, santander said "sorry we're a bank we don't work on sundays"
<penguin42> haha
<daftykins> sounds fair
<ali1234> police aren't ATM engineers so they have no way of knowing if the machines are now safe to use. so they issue this tweet
<popey> ali1234: just thought it might be a game you'd enjoy
<penguin42> anyway, hopefully the crooks have run off to Yorkshire
<ali1234> popey: thanks. i'm not a big fan of PvP games though
<knightwise> popey: once again , thanx for pointing me at Colussus, realy enjoyed that
<popey> yay
<knightwise> in return I trade you : Fail Safe
<knightwise> https://johendriks.wordpress.com/2012/05/16/fail-safe-what-if-w-h-o-p-p-e-r-did-fire-the-missiles-in-war-games-3/
<penguin42> is this as in the early computer-vs-computer war film Colossus?
<knightwise> penguin42: correct.
<penguin42> ooh I hadn't heard of failsafe
<knightwise> Its good. its a movie from the late 50's but the story is very chilling.
<penguin42> incidentally, you do know that the one critical mistake in Wargames was that the launch codes were actually set as all 0's for 20 years?
<knightwise> Djeez
<knightwise> same thing with the auto distruct sequences for the enterprise
<penguin42> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/launch-code-for-us-nukes-was-00000000-for-20-years/
<knightwise> haven't changed since TOS
<penguin42> oh yes, what is it again, Picard, alpha 1 alpha  or something?
<knightwise> http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Auto-destruct
<popey> ooh, thanks knightwise
<popey> penguin42: yeah, I got Colossus on DVD for my birthday a few years back. I love it
<penguin42> hmm haven't seen it for a long long time
<knightwise> no prob popey :) hope you enjoy it :)
<zmoylan-pi> the skimmers on atms is getting to the point they'll have to i dunno have a special building were humans handle the cash... and we shall call them... banks...
<daftykins> nobody wants those :)
<zmoylan-pi> but queueing!! the british love a good queue!! :-P
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be indoors and dry so you can get some serious queueing done...
<daftykins> does Ireland not have queues for ATMs? :D
<zmoylan-pi> we have huddles trying to stay dry and out of the wind... more a march of the penguins thing happening... :-)
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-27
<SuperMatt> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<lottak> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning lottak
<lottak> brobostigon: guess which operating system this boat runs https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/JKHhvr7e/irccloudcapture-1496440471.jpg
<lottak> Ubuntu. I installed ubuntu to run the lights and checkin software.
<lottak> Its a hostel.
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<Laney> lottak: the lights????
<lottak> Lights off at 10
<lottak> Automatiskt
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy World Theatre Day! ð
 * zmoylan-pi puts on a play of 2 people waiting for a bus that never comes... waiting for no.6
<brobostigon> oh dear. is that like a play about watching paint dry?
<davmor2> JamesTait:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymPu2PdLW3I and more importantly this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t99KH0TR-J4
<davmor2> brobostigon: depends if zmoylan-pi bases it in England or America, In England there would be a small discussion of weather, followed by mumbling about the wait then silence for days, In america they would get onto their Congressman and start a political revolution to get the number 6 bus running again
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think that covers us right?
<brobostigon> davmor2: very true, yes,
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo
<davmor2> MooDoo: how am ya owld chap
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah good man, bit tired from the clock change, but alreet, yer sen?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Know that feelin' it's like jetlag but you're only out by an hour it makes no sense :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: I know :( waking up a little now though, must be the coffee, although I know I'm going to crash later
<Laney> I wondered why I was so tired yesterday
<Laney> turned out that my mum's teabags are decaf
<Laney> DECAF.
<Laney> WTF.
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> DECAF?!
<Laney> POISONED BY MY OWN MOTHER
<diddledan> what voodoo is this?!
<MooDoo> how very dare she
<davmor2> Laney: she hates you, that must be it, only explanation ;)
<diddledan> what's the command to get apt to tell me why it wants to install a particular package?
<diddledan> it doesn't respond to `apt why`
<davmor2> diddledan: policy depends rdepends?
<popey> aptitude why <packagename>
<davmor2> diddledan: isn't why just an aptitude thing
<davmor2> oh popey beat me to it
<diddledan> no idea
<diddledan> thanks popey
<popey> np
<diddledan> I been messing to golang today. I've written a ton of code, but have no idea whether it actually works or not :-p
<popey> golang is quite natty
<diddledan> I like it, but am unsure whether I'm clever enough with it yet to make it do stuff I think it should be doing with my code
<davmor2> diddledan: run it and stop whining
 * diddledan pouts
<diddledan> but. you're a big meanie! :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: only way to know for sure if it will run :P
<diddledan> I could write a proof rather than running the program
<diddledan> proofs are harder anyway
<diddledan> I don't even know what one would look like
<diddledan> the hard bit of testing this is it's a network client (ssh)
<davmor2> diddledan: or run it and if it works there is your proof :P
<diddledan> so I need to spin-up a test ssh server
<diddledan> so. it doesn't :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: there you go proof positive you suck at go currently ;)
<davmor2> diddledan: on a plus side like any other language you'll only get better the more you use it :)
<davmor2> well in theory I've seen code MooDoo writes it's still shocking and where is he when you want to insult him
<diddledan> ok, it doesn't die horribly now
<davmor2> diddledan: see better already :D
<diddledan> I can get it to compile and show the usage info
<diddledan> now to figure out whether it can connect to ssh
<MooDoo> evening all
<daftykins> blech my freezer has died now to add to the comedy of life
<popey> :(
<daftykins> it was the previous owners so i have no idea of its' history, but it looks like it was first added to Amazon UK in 2004 - so it's had a good innings if that's accurate
<daftykins> kittens! https://www.dropbox.com/s/sf7ihm26fuxf1w6/VID_20170327_164053.mp4?dl=0
<zmoylan-pi> a scratching post... but how then will your cats know to shred your curtains/furniture?!
<daftykins> i know, i was shocked she was using it today!
<zmoylan-pi> was she at least a proper cat and play with the box it came in more than the post?
<daftykins> ah i missed the unwrapping, that's just my clients place
<daftykins> only popped in to shower :>
<diddledan> those kitties are too cute
<daftykins> i can't believe her mountaineering so much :D
<zmoylan-pi> her only regret was that it wasn't climbing a human been climbed with full claws...
<daftykins> quite right! she's scaled my jeans plenty
<zmoylan-pi> did she wait till you had both hands filled with something very hot or fragile that you couldn't drop?
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> wat? https://twitter.com/blakkheim/status/846485883180240897
<diddledan> USN-3246-1
<daftykins> that reply too, my my
<diddledan> of course, don't forget to rewind your cds/dvds before running eject: http://www.brendangregg.com/Specials/cdrewind
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh a fidget toy you can share with your cat.... http://68.media.tumblr.com/4de800d6cc9b96fa34e67548e59866d2/tumblr_omc1am3con1ub00mko5_r1_400.gif
<daftykins> diddledan: d'aww that fails by saying 'disk' instead of 'disc' ;D
<zmoylan-pi> i think there's an american uk divide on the spelling there
<daftykins> naaaah it's c if it's round and k if it's square!
<zmoylan-pi> then what about oblong?! disck? https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newenglandcd.com%2Fimages%2Fsample-bccd.jpg&f=1
<blues> I have a non ubuntu question. whether thats right. is irc anonymous upto a point? I see your connection details are posted on some clients does that mean anything?  beyond your average person I mean
<daftykins> well it looks like you're from leicester perhaps
<blues> thats what I mean
<daftykins> but since you're exposing your host then yeah, anyone could traceroute you and pin down where you are in the world, you're meant to register to nickserv then apply for a cloak from #freenode
<zmoylan-pi> if anonymity is important they you can try something like a vpn or tor to reach irc
<daftykins> main thing to think about is - why should anyone care who you are? of course you're chatting in a publically logged channel right now :)
<blues> well it depends of course
<blues> thanks for that though
<daftykins> definitely aim to 1) register 2) cloak 3) connect via SSL 4) SASL auth
<blues> so it doesnt matter when the server says your new hidden host is so and so?
<daftykins> that's only said when you auth with nickserv
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-28
<blues> I thought it was automatic when it said that..
<daftykins> well you're obviously showing us your virgin media host right now
<daftykins> so you're not identified
<blues> yeah but I didnt get that message from this server
<daftykins> you have to auth with nickserv...
<blues> ok thx alot
<diddledan> finished working on the golang project I was playing with earlier: https://github.com/bowlhat/sftp-deploy
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Something On A Stick Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning
<SuperMatt> I would like bacon on a stick
<SuperMatt> actually... sausage wrapped in bacon on a stick...
<SuperMatt> dipped in bbq sauce
<zmoylan-pi> .me hands SuperMatt a lollypop
<SuperMatt> That's not what I asked for
<zmoylan-pi> it's bacon flavoured...
<SuperMatt> getting better, but the heart wants what the heart wants. A bypass
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WGVgfjnLqc
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> you could always get a battered sausage and impale it on a pencil to eat it...
<davmor2> MooDoo: ow am ya me owld mucka
<SuperMatt> zmoylan-pi: that sounds like a good idea
<TwistedLucidity> Reminds me, I need to call the GP and arrange one of those "I am now old, when will I die?" check-ups
<SuperMatt> Let's just sort out some kind of Logan's Run system
<zmoylan-pi> if they won't take a cheque afterwards TwistedLucidity it's not good news... :-P
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah good thanks, just got a new VPS and moved my site over to it
<davmor2> MooDoo: what over the stack of servers you have at home
<MooDoo> davmor2: they are all off at the moment :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: How come?
<MooDoo> davmor2: we're moving and to be honest they were loud, so i'm thinking at the new house, i'll have to get intel nucs or something a little quieter :)
<zmoylan-pi> a wall of rasp pi's.... :-D
<davmor2> MooDoo: a bunch of nextcloud boxes and some Rpi's
<MooDoo> don't tempt me
<zmoylan-pi> how many r-pi zero w's could you fit into the keyboard of a c64... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: a few
<davmor2> MooDoo: they come with free biscuits
 * davmor2 lies
<zmoylan-pi> AND still have 1 pi dedicated to playing 8bit games...
<diddledan> \o/ my 10GbE just arrived
<zmoylan-pi> that took a while
<zmoylan-pi> hope it's speedier than it's delivery :-)
<diddledan> :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I'd hope so but then you remember that diddledan is involved so I don't hold out hope ;)
<zmoylan-pi> it'll drop more packets than the delivery man... :-P
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: what, we're only evil to you because we love you :D
<zmoylan-pi> wait.... we are?! :-P
<diddledan> careful, I might blush
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: shhh if he buys it we can keep being evil ;)
<zmoylan-pi> you keep distracting him and i'll put the clingfilm and superglue on his loo seat...
<davmor2> hahaha
 * diddledan goes to pee
<diddledan> wtf? which one of you did that?!
<diddledan> davmor2: I uploaded the golang stuff I was working on - it's a bit rough and needs some more work, but: https://github.com/bowlhat/sftp-deploy
 * davmor2 points at diddledan as he is the only one in the house
<diddledan> lots of goroutines!! \o/
<davmor2> yeah you definitely need to keep going, just give it 5 minutes for zmoylan-pi to reset the cling film
<zmoylan-pi> no no, you never repeat the same prank twice... we now switch to reversing the toilet roll so that it's wrong direction cuts at diddledan's very soul...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: the diversion was that he now looks at the toilet bowl and doesn't notice the toilet-roll till it is too late ;)
 * zmoylan-pi orders the wifi stopping paint online to redecorate the bathroom...
<diddledan> oldskool addicts, philscomputerlab has just uploaded a youtube video with 1 hour of midi music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OhVLt6d5PY
 * zmoylan-pi pushes hard drive filled with 8bit games music under the table and whistles nonchantly
<diddledan> :-)
 * zmoylan-pi then realises i'm whistling zub and stops... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRcy68207Fc
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi, diddledan: just watch Smooth Mcgroove https://www.youtube.com/user/SmoothMcGroove
<diddledan> so my 10GbE are working nicely! \o/
 * davmor2 thinks diddledan is only saying that so we think it is, knowing it is all over the place really ;)
<zmoylan-pi> he has pigeons carrying the packets as his fallover backup
<davmor2> diddledan: speedtest or it never happened
<diddledan> it's running between freenas and xenserver, so I don't know how to do a speedtest
<diddledan> it's reporting connection at 10Gb
<diddledan> so it negotiated ok
<zmoylan-pi> drag and drop your kitten video directory from one system to another :-)
<davmor2> diddledan: and screenshot speed :D
<diddledan> dragging and dropping anything between them will go via my desktop which is not on the 10Gb link
<diddledan> I can't drag and drop on them directly because. well. no gui
<Azelphur> I have achieved greatness, after a horrible raid failure, recovering the array, growing the array, migrating to 64bit ext4 and resizing, I now have a 19TB RAID6 array with 13TB used \o/
<zmoylan-pi> that's a *LOT* of cat videos...
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: indeed it is, I had to figure out how to tweak checkmk, because it was warning me that I have only 20% free space left (4TB)
<zmoylan-pi> down to your last 4tb... how will you ever survive... :-)
<Azelphur> I know right
<zmoylan-pi> as long as the beeb doesn't release another david attenborough documentary in super high def you might last a week or two...
<daftykins> Azelphur: and don't do it again :P
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/JoeRessington/status/846867518283284480
<diddledan> article 50 is being requested on Friday
<daftykins> slowest database ever ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-29
<sam_wong> hi
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo how are you
<diplo> Not bad thanks MooDoo, yourself ?
<MooDoo> diplo: getting more and more fed up as the day goes on [users] :)
<diplo> I feel that a little, no staff in, having to deal with users is sucking the life out of me, didn't finish work last night till 23:45 ( started at 8am  ) and back in at 8 thius morning
<diplo> Hanging atm :( and stupid users making that harder
<foobarry> working late aint good for the soul
<foobarry> had an interview for promotion on fri
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> No it's not foobarry :)
<diplo> Any news / feelings on the interview ?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Lemon Chiffon Cake Day! ð ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnHyB9KzQvs
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Oh a GTX1080 for a mere Â£489.99
<MooDoo> davmor2: yup looking at one of those for a new pc build i'm going to do
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh you get the ebuyer daily email too then :D
<foobarry> diplo: yes , soon :D
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I also play "fantasy PC". Got a spare Â£5k I can have? :-)
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out the monopoly money...
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: davmor2 I'm looking at 1080ti sli when I can :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: Might want to hold out for a full ryzen stack ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: amd?  spit how very dare you
<davmor2> MooDoo: look at the ryzen specs sometime seriously, it makes intel look like it has been sat on it's laurels
<zmoylan-pi> well intel has been frantically trying to make an arm competitor i thought. totally different end of the market
<MooDoo> davmor2: microsoft won't support it in windows 7, which is what a lot of people still use, they are forcing people to upgrade to windows 10
<Laney> .1
<davmor2> MooDoo: they won't support anything that isn't on windows 10 now
<zmoylan-pi> they'll drag their userbase to win10 wether they want it or not
<popey> ali1234: it amuses me that your big image on zerostem.io shows a pi zero with no sd card :)
<zmoylan-pi> they use the image to flush out the ocd folk? :-)
<diddledan> I'm intrigued about ryzen tech getting into servers
<diddledan> and yeah, I think because AMD made a misstep with bulldozer and scrapped everything to start anew a few years ago Intel got complacent about the lack of competition and so didn't push as hard as they could have
<xnox> british english is vile when used suicinicaly and to the dot.
<xnox> just read the article 50 letter and it makes me sick.
<SuperMatt> What exactly is ryzen?
<davmor2> SuperMatt: amd's new built from ground chipset
<SuperMatt> does it still follow the x86_64 instruction set (or whatever, I don't know)
<davmor2> SuperMatt: yeap https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+1700X&id=2969
<SuperMatt> so it's just a new processor model, rather than a whole new processor type, like arm
<davmor2> SuperMatt: yeap
<SuperMatt> fine
<davmor2> SuperMatt: they are doing arm chips too but for server
<directhex> SuperMatt: ryzen is amd's latest amd64 model. it's the first model which can compete with intel's mid and high-end kit since athlon64
<directhex> i mean, it's worse than intel's, but it's also less than half the price. that was also true before, but they only really had competition for i3 chips in the sub-Â£100 market
<directhex> and nothing above there
<directhex> there just was no option for a high-end AMD PC
<directhex> now a high end AMD PC is Â£800 less than a high end Intel PC, for a 10-20% performance penalty
<Azelphur> I have a ryzen chip \o/
<davmor2> Azelphur: do you have a  board to plug it into ;)
<Azelphur> yea I'm using it to talk to you now
<davmor2> Azelphur: we'll expect a full review of it
<Azelphur> It works and it goes fast
<Azelphur> </review>
<davmor2> Azelphur: proper review, do you run any vm instances on it?
<Azelphur> davmor2: yea, and PCI passthrough
<davmor2> Azelphur: how does that perform?
<Azelphur> I have issues with stutturing, other uses have stated they've resolved it, but I have yet to spend much time on resolving it
<davmor2> Azelphur: I'm thinking ryzen laptop when they become available :D
<Azelphur> that is, gaming inside a VM
<Azelphur> I'm not insane VM usage isn't stuttery.
<davmor2> Azelphur: which vm are you using out of interest
<Azelphur> libvirt/kvm/qemu
<davmor2> Azelphur: ah cool
<Azelphur> davmor2: I bought a 1700 since apparently if you're overclocking, anything higher is pointless
<Azelphur> 1700 overclocks to 4.1 and performs identically to an 1800X
<davmor2> and saves you some money too
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> got my EK Supremacy HF ready to go, just gotta clean my radiator
<Azelphur> then I'll clock it up
<Azelphur> snapped myself a 3d printer up too, the tevo tarantulas are on sale on AliExpress today
<Azelphur> Â£200 for the version with the large bed, and auto leveling
<davmor2> Azelphur: I've heard bad thing about those, Anet A8 is better and more reliable apparently
<Azelphur> davmor2: really? I've heard that they are quite good, I turned down the Anet A8 because it doesn't have auto leveling or a large bed
<davmor2> Azelphur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYTWnqRzA_U this was the first about brittle parts there is another too that I'm trying to find
<Azelphur> davmor2: ah yea, I'm aware about the brittle parts, the solution is to just reprint all the acrylic parts
<Azelphur> my friend is printing them for me as we speak, so when the printer arrives, I will assemble it with good parts first time round.
<davmor2> Azelphur: yeah there was never a part two though turns out he stripped it down to use for parts
<davmor2> Azelphur: that might make it better then :)
<Azelphur> davmor2: yea, the description mentions that they've fixed all the problems and to watch a different review for a true opinion on it now
<Azelphur> if you go to that linked review, he sings its praises.
<davmor2> ah there you go
<Azelphur> so yea, sounds promising basically :)
<Azelphur> I've got a friend hand holding me through it all, owns 3 printers and works doing CAD, so he knows his stuff :)
<davmor2> Azelphur: slic3r is awesome. openscad is awesome and pronterface as a printer interface :)
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> not sure what I'll use just yet, he's coming down and gonna help me assemble it when it arrives, and I'll go from there lol
<Azelphur> things, I will learn many of them :)
<davmor2> you will cus the hell out of it at times and love it others as a heads up
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> davmor2: seems like there's loads of upgrades you can do too which I like, it'll take the E3D V6 extruders for flexible filament
<Azelphur> and it supports dual extruders too
<Azelphur> so at some point, I'll probably buy an E3D v6, then I'll have dual extruders.
<davmor2> Azelphur: E3D is the best but get the original not the cheap chinese knock offs they work but can jam easily
<Azelphur> indeed
<davmor2> Azelphur: if you are printing in pla use a part fan
<Azelphur> yep, friend is printing me one :)
<davmor2> Azelphur: try a single sided pcb instead of glass, not so fragile and holds the heat longer like http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/305x203mm-fibreglass-single-sided-pcb-board-wf41u
<davmor2> does it have a heated bed even
<Azelphur> I believe so
<davmor2> loads of bits you can upgrade to make life easier
<Azelphur> Heating plate temperature: 60-120Â°C (proper winter warming and summer appropriate cooling).
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3D-Printer-Kits-TEVO-Tarantula-I3-Aluminium-Extrusion-3D-Printer-kit-3d-printing-2-Rolls-Filament/32610178152.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.b4zpHa has full specs :)
<Azelphur> I think one of my first fun projects will be to print this, http://frederickvandenbosch.be/?p=1365 but with one extra button, and add a male USB connector. Pi Zero can run in USB client mode, so I can have it pretend to be a CDROM and use it to install OS's on things.
<davmor2> Azelphur: I'm thinking of upgrading mine to a prusa
<Azelphur> davmor2: said friend has the prusa mk2 ordered :)
<davmor2> Azelphur: oh rigid.ink for filament by the way it is awesome
<Azelphur> davmor2: he already recommended it to me, already ordered some with his referral link, he's using the fiver he got from referring me to print the parts to fix my printer up for me, haha
<davmor2> Azelphur: they'll even send you a free sample
<davmor2> Azelphur: you need to know these things :)
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<davmor2> Oh and get tools if it doesn't come with any
<Azelphur> yea, he is preparing a shopping list of tools for me to buy lol
<ali1234> popey: you can boot it over USB without an SD card
<ali1234> https://8086.support/content/23/85/en/how-do-i-setup-usbboot-no-sd-cards-in-the-pi-zeros-for-the-cluster-hat.html
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be_u500FJGU
<daftykins> give us this day our daily kitten - https://www.dropbox.com/s/nidin32kco9f37h/IMG_20170329_172836.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> omg, that clusterhat is awesome
<diddledan> the HMRC specification of P45 forms is specified with positions in micrometers: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/452108/p45-online0715.pdf
<zmoylan-pi> henceforth post brexit it will be nanofeet
<daftykins> vogon edition
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-30
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> I'm sick of winning lotto lucky dips, when am I going to win the big one?
<diplo> I'm sick of not winning anything, give me your lucky dips?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon and davmor2
<davmor2> Hey MooDoo ow am ya?
<davmor2> MooDoo: of to the van tomorrow can't wait need this break :D
<popey> ali1234: didn't know that!
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy I am in Control Day! ð
 * zmoylan-pi told JamesTait to say that... :-P
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, but I still made the final decision. ð
<zmoylan-pi> that's what i allow you to think... :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH8xbDGv7oY worlds longest intro sorry :D
<knightwi1e> good morning peeps
<dogmatic69_> o/
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<knightwi1e> running Bash on the windows machine today
<knightwi1e> kinda funny to have all these commands and apps at my disposal :)
<zmoylan-pi> i used to use cygwin and before that unxutils for my linuxy console needs on windows
<Knightw0rk> its convenient. still get to run MsProject for work while running IRC on the same machine :)  Combine that on an XPS13 and its a sweet dream
<zmoylan-pi> the fun i had when outlook refused to find emails i knew were in it and dropped to command line and grepped the pst file... :-)
<Knightw0rk> hahahah :)
<Knightw0rk> Grep PSt :) The mailcient of the future
<zmoylan-pi> and the vim the results... very user friendly... :-P
<Knightw0rk> indeed
<Knightw0rk> and reading the mime code of your attachments instead of watching the pictures
<zmoylan-pi> a true geek can see the jpeg in the mime...
<Knightw0rk> like neo seing the matrix code
<Knightw0rk> hmm.. i think i've gotten my hands on an older 20 inch imac , 2007 model.
<Knightw0rk> Wanna try to run linux on there
<Knightw0rk> looks like a cute machine to use , perhaps slide in an SSD.
<diddledan> yey for living in a flat
<diddledan> another leaky leak
<diddledan> this one is going through my electricity boxes \o/
<diddledan> I really should power everything off
<diddledan> poor woman upstairs has had several pairs of shoes ruined :-(
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Got a good management agency/factor?
<diddledan> yeah, the plumber just arrived already - less than 30 minutes after I phoned for help
<diddledan> (he arrived about 11:15)
<TwistedLucidity> Nice
<diddledan> they classed it as emergency due to the electricity factor
<diddledan> why does ebay think I want to buy a bra?
<directhex> so your chest doesn't chafe when you run?
<m0nkey_> Don't be silly.
<m0nkey_> He doesn't run
<diplo> Guys, anyone recommend a good workstation, won't have much to spend. But my basic needs are to run 4-5 VM's at a time without dieing, coding ( so nowt really ) and running 3 screens preferably
<diplo> Just about to start searching now, haven't been given a budget, but it'll be small :/
<diddledan> for VMs the limiting factor is usually RAM rather than CPU
<diplo> Yeah, having issues on this box on disk, but this box is sooooooo old :)
<diplo> And underpowered
<diplo> And it's mine, not the companies!
<diplo> Just found a site called bargainhardware.co.uk with a HP Z420 that I can spec up quite well
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Hmm...always fancied a Lack-Rack
<diddledan> a what in the whatnow?
<TwistedLucidity> You go to Ikea, buy a Lack table.
<TwistedLucidity> Then you get a few rack servers/routers/switches
<TwistedLucidity> And mount under the top of said table.
<TwistedLucidity> Boom.
<TwistedLucidity> Lack-Rack.
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Going to speak to the boss tomorrow
<daftykins> diplo: Dell XPS desktop from the Dell outlet pages
<daftykins> you'll find a skylake i7 with 16GB RAM and nvidia GTX 960 graphics cards (capable of triple displays) for likely <Â£800
<daftykins> in fact, even less without a card - but you'd want one really
<daftykins> one for Â£715 on there right now, with other configurations available
<ali1234> i wouldn't buy a 960
<ali1234> for coding the skylake IGP is fine
<daftykins> won't get 3 outputs from that though, which makes your case moot
<ali1234> you can, actually
<ali1234> you might need to use display port though
<daftykins> but the point is that you'd need to use a different cable for each - and having put those machines in one would have to be VGA, which is a joke - so once again, no.
<diddledan> surely you'd need cables for every monitor anyway. I don't see what the choice of GFX has over whether to use 3 cables or not
<diddledan> you can't connect three monitors to one cable!
<daftykins> because it's one of each type = more fun to diagnose etc
<daftykins> plus different capabilities, res support... i fail to see how this isn't obvious
<diddledan> there's no reason it has to be basing the premise on it being a skylake i7
<daftykins> "it has to be" being what?
<diddledan> my skylake i7 has hdmi and two display ports which are hdmi without the proprietary plug
<diddledan> it has to be meaning there's no reason it has to be three different types
<daftykins> we're talking about a specific Dell XPS desktop in this case which i've put in two of, and has specific outputs only
<daftykins> you can't just assume certain outputs come on it
<diddledan> no, but ali1234 was talking about skylake IGP being fine and you replied to that saying no
<diddledan> you didn't specify that you were readjusting the conversation back to the box previous to ali1234 mentioning skylake
<daftykins> because i'm talking about a specific system and the outputs it has available - and diplo said 3 monitors
<daftykins> i don't see how you think that was required
<ali1234> https://www.displayport.org/cables/driving-multiple-displays-from-a-single-displayport-output/
<diddledan> ali1234: still need three cables :-p
<diddledan> </troll>
<diddledan> these old computer chronicles programs are epic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV2rxImyGYE
<daftykins> displayport daisy chaining requires premium displays with support, they don't all just do it
<daftykins> listen, i don't say these things for fun - i have the experience to back it up
<diddledan> and you need three monitors! (even my setup only has two :-( *pout*)
<diddledan> three monitors is just decadent
<diddledan> although, I kinda want 6x24inch
<diddledan> my setup is evil, the two 24inch monitors I have are different aspect ratios
<daftykins> not me, i only have two too - and they're gonna be 10 years old next year :>
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> still rocking displayport 1.1
<diddledan> nearly old enoughh to vote!
<diddledan> I really drool over 4k 24 inch screens
<daftykins> i think that'd be too small for that res
<diddledan> mine are standard 1920x1080 and 1920x1200
<daftykins> i always hear these g-sync or freesync 144Hz ones are the best thing since sliced bread, but i've not seen one in person
<diddledan> nah, they're only any benefit if you're a gamer IMO
<daftykins> well yeah, i do game
<diddledan> I don't :-p
<daftykins> but a mate has seen one and says they even improve the desktop XD
<daftykins> 2 months and almost a week on and i'm still waiting on the bathroom quotes, oy
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> that's a hellish wait
<diddledan> still it means you get to see kitties every shower :-p
<daftykins> ;) it does! the shower room i use is in the basement, so when i go in i hear the little tappity tap of kitten paws as they follow me down
<diddledan> aww
<diddledan> so koot
<daftykins> <Poppy & Daisy> Ooh, a human is here! Quick!
<diddledan> wow, I didn't know this existed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Sidecar
<marshmn> I doubt it will run DOTA2
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> wonder how long my electric cupboard will take to dry-out?
<diddledan> there's not much ventilation so no air movement
<zmoylan-pi> get the 6000 packets of silica gel that have come in every electronic device you've opened... :-P
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> that reminds me, i had a brainwave of putting those packets between my ghetto secondary glazing (5mm perspex sheets screwed atop my windows) to reduce the mould buildup
<marshmn> would probably work - but will probably need them replacing frequently
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> only seems to need a scrub for spring as they come down then anyway on most
<marshmn> fill the entire window with rice
<daftykins> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> move the window to the sahara...
<marshmn> move the planet closer to the sun
<zmoylan-pi> you'd need to get a quote from musk on that...
<diddledan> musk is going into neurological field with his investments - wants to interface humans and machines
<diddledan> ref: http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/27/15077864/elon-musk-neuralink-brain-computer-interface-ai-cyborgs
<zmoylan-pi> go to a korean internet cafe...
<marshmn> you think he'd sort out daftykins' windows first though
<zmoylan-pi> he thought gates was taking care of daftykins windows...
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah that could be dangerous
<daftykins> he's too busy curing world diseases
<diddledan> davmor2: the musk neuralink or my electricity & water combo?
<davmor2> diddledan: both
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> but my place is a fully listed 16th/17th century townhouse so yeah, no double glazing for me
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> sucky nuts
<daftykins> it was gonna be 2017, year of the insulated roof - until the bathroom drama
<zmoylan-pi> grow a beard for insulation...
<marshmn> daftykins: I already knew you like living in the past, but you've taken it to a new level in my understanding :-)
 * zmoylan-pi nods approvingly of the clinging to ancient technology... :-P
 * diddledan bashes zmoylan-pi with a compaq proliant
<diddledan> (one of those was underneath the water in my leccy-cupboard)
 * zmoylan-pi fends off diddledan with ast pc
<diddledan> thems are heavy beasts!
<zmoylan-pi> solid metal cases... no plastics... no sireee
<diddledan> one of these jobbies (though I remember the model number different .. /me goes to check) http://www.surfplus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Compaq-Proliant-ML370-1.jpg
<diddledan> yeah, mine say they're 1600R
<zmoylan-pi> i think that was the one that landed on my foot when desk collapsed under it...
<diddledan> not ML370
<diddledan> the delivery man loved when he had two of them to deliver to my second-floor flat a decade ago
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully you left them out when you were finished with them so some thief needing a hernia installed could have a go...
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I still have them :-p
<diddledan> I should get them running again
<diddledan> got three of them
<zmoylan-pi> i remember the blog of an admin who took a full tower pc, filled it with wet cement and left it on his porch for entertainment... first time it only made it about 50metres iirc
<diddledan> haha. that's some serious trolling!
<diddledan> needed a camera setup to record the fiefs
<zmoylan-pi> think of it as teaching the less fortunate :-P
<diddledan> (fief is how we spell theive!)
<diddledan> I used to aspire to one of these setups: http://h20564.www2.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/imageServlet?DOCID=emr_na-c00376737-7/c00406574.jpg
<daftykins> marshmn: i live inside the past!
<daftykins> marshmn: although that still pisses me off saying that since i had discless playback with Kodi at home before you'd had your first whiff of streaming services ;)
<diddledan> daftykins: I tried to do the same with linuxmce.org - I failed
<diddledan> many moons ago
<daftykins> looks like they're trying to do a lot in that
<daftykins> oh my, Aliens in stick form - http://i.imgur.com/3238SN8.gifv
<daftykins> well, chubby sticks :P
<diddledan> lol
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how long it would take a 3d printer to make a small wall decoration... :-P http://68.media.tumblr.com/3beb60eaeec1e76dd4dbb110873c8a84/tumblr_n3hwa472J91tp5udno1_1280.jpg
<diddledan> eek
<diddledan> imagine having one of those above a bed in a hotel
<diddledan> preferably invisible from all angles except when you look up from lying on the bed
<zmoylan-pi> on a timer to appear from a recess at night over the bed and the flash the lights...
<diddledan> or that ^
<zmoylan-pi> the resulting scream will be billed as your wake up call for the rest of the hotel/town...
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> or rest of LV427
<zmoylan-pi> or don't flash the lights.  just drip cold liquid onto person till they flip the light switch and see 'drooling' xenomorph...
<zmoylan-pi> survivors get a discount on health insurance as they're guaranteed not to have heart attack in next year... :-P
<daftykins> unless they stay again!
<zmoylan-pi> yeah... they'll ever willingly go asleep in a dark room again...
<daftykins> speaking of hotels i just email'd the manager of the one beside me to tell him their pub free wifi access point is borked
<zmoylan-pi> probably have to be coaxed out with a warm blanky and pack of choccy hobnobs...
<zmoylan-pi> you didn't hack it better? :-P
<diddledan> mmm, choccy nobnobs
<daftykins> hah, either a power fault or just the unit faulty - 'twas PoE
<daftykins> he also unplugged it in front of me, but still fell over every 5 mins
<zmoylan-pi> sounds donald...
<zmoylan-pi> was it installed by pub or outsourced to some comapny?
<zmoylan-pi> installed a new hp printer today... it wanted to create a cloud account to activate the printer...
<daftykins> they have made the mistake of being handled by a local IT company under a managed contract
<daftykins> one i know well, as their labour rate is Â£95/hr which includes time spent calling in, for small biz
<zmoylan-pi> ah...
<zmoylan-pi> if sent to fix it when i left i would either have it working for a few days between reboots scheduled at 3am or kill it with a hammer and replace it.
<daftykins> reboot was already a no-go, she's dead, Jim
<diddledan> http://www.html5zombo.com/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-31
<MooDoo> morning all
<directhex> free good linux game alert, limited time offer https://store.codemasters.com/us/product/286559/overlord
<ali1234> directhex: what is the catch?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka, ow bin ya?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah man good thanks, just playing with my blog, seeing what decent adsense plugins there are our there
<davmor2> Azelphur: Anet A8 has heated bed and and bed sensor \o/
<SuperMatt> morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's the attitude to stop people on this channel instantly following you blog ;)
<davmor2> your blog even :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy World Backup Day! ð ð» â
 * DJones reverses Mars into earth...Bump...Oh, not that sort of world backup...oops
<SuperMatt> JamesTait: tell that to gitlab
<JamesTait> Ouch.
<MooDoo> davmor2: people follow my blog?   nutters
<popey> beep beep beep
<davmor2> MooDoo: only for the photos
<SuperMatt> popey: are you beeping because your motherboard has no ram installed?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I was doing 5 beeps earlier in the week, my cmos battery failed
<SuperMatt> at least that's easily replacable. My machine once died during a bios upgrade. I had to source a new bios chip
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: it's a laptop, so had to completely strip it :(
<SuperMatt> ouch
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I didn't have any screws left over so I must have done something right and the beeping stopped lol
<davmor2> JamesTait: isn't that Elon's job?
<SuperMatt> When I replaced my laptop hdd with an ssd, I did actually have a screw left over, but that's because the plastic it screwed into was broken. All held together with duck tape now
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: luckily for the ssd replacement it's just two screws one for the cover and one for the tray
<SuperMatt> I had to take the keyboard off to get to my hdd
<SuperMatt> but it's all working like a dream now
<MooDoo> bloomin laptops eh!
<JamesTait> davmor2, what's that? Backing up the world?
<davmor2> JamesTait: yeah
<SuperMatt> At least it's not a macbook, which I would never be able to upgrade
<JamesTait> I'm not sure it's worth it at this point. I think we need to restore from an old backup.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD_vt-pXs5Q cheeky one for you
<JamesTait> Ooh, cutesy!
<popey> SuperMatt: no, vehicles reversing
<SuperMatt> oh of course
 * Seeker makes a beeping noise when popey walks backwards
<MooDoo> Friday silly question time - What if you made a device that attached to your TV that made it physically impossible to receive anything related to the BBC, would this mean you don't have to buy a TV license?  It could even be integral to the TV itself?
<Laney> TV license isn't only BBC, so no
<MooDoo> what else is it?
<Laney> all live broadcast television and iPlayer
<MooDoo> really?  like ITV etc?
<Laney> yep
<MooDoo> doh!
<Laney> but I don't think you need to destroy anything to not have to pay it either
<MooDoo> hmmmm so what about if you only have netflix?
<Laney> just don't watch TV or use iPlayer
<Laney> then you wouldn't need it
<MooDoo> interesting
<MooDoo> netflix + monitor i suppose
<Laney> you can use a TV set
<Laney> just don't do anything with it that would require a license
<MooDoo> yes just read that......
<MooDoo> bout time they scrapped it tbh
<MooDoo> is it home time yet?
<Azelphur> can confirm, don't need TV license so long as you aren't receiving live TV in any way shape or form, or using iPlayer :)
<Azelphur> I don't have a license, they sent me threatening letters every month claiming they have started an investigation, are take me to court, are gonna send the goons round etc, been getting them for 4 years now, lol
<Laney> Had that in a student house back in the day too
<Laney> Don't think anyone ever turned up, which was a shame as I was looking forward to sending them packing
<Azelphur> Laney: my thoughts exactly, sometimes I get tempted to call them and ask how many times they are going to "open an investigation" and how many investigations they currently have open against me
<Azelphur> it must be in the 100s
<Laney> the letters were borderline misleading
<Azelphur> imo they are misleading
<Azelphur> they changed them recently, with a big-ass heading telling you they are coming on a specific date
<Azelphur> then if you read into it, it says "It may be on the 22nd feb, or another day"
<Laney> :D
<Azelphur> http://www.bbctvlicence.com/201702%20letter.jpg this one lol
<Laney> that's funny
<Laney> but it's also designed to dupe and indimidate :(
<Azelphur> indeed it is, it's sad really, it doesn't help that half the population treats you like you're crazy for not wanting a TV license either
<Azelphur> and then there are the people that say you should cooperate with them, like I should be expected to let some random, completely unvetted person search my home with the goal of getting me in trouble for a crime I didn't commit
<BigRedS> When I had no telly I co-operated as far as telling them I had no telly. I never got visited
<Azelphur> BigRedS: heh, from what I've heard, telling them you don't need a license usually triggers a goon visit
<BigRedS> yeah, I've heard that but only from people I've never met :) I don't know anyone who's been visited by them, and I'm relatively rare among my friends in having a tv license
<Azelphur> plus, the way I think about it, they are out to prosecute me. Talking to them gets me no benefits, only possible downsides
<BigRedS> well, it gets you the benefit of their not sending you letters or maybe sending people round. If you're actually not supposed to have a license I can't see any possible downside of saying that
<BigRedS> I'm not at all defending how they operate or even really the laws that enable it, but it does seem that the only people who ever complain about TV licensing are the people who also refuse to tick the "I have no TV" box,
<BigRedS> "TV licensing" the organisation, not the concept
<MooDoo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm5eWLXW6l4 - nice cover
<foobarry> scrolls up to check JamesTait mentioned backups today
<JamesTait> Bang on, foobarry. âº
<JamesTait> davmor2, here's one to add to your collection: https://youtu.be/CY1WIfPJHqI
<diplo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ubuntu_OEM_Installer_Overview still relevant peeps ?
<DJones> diplo: This might be more relevant, certainly more recent anyway http://askubuntu.com/questions/36671/how-do-i-pre-install-ubuntu-for-someone-oem-install
<diplo> ta
<DJones> Doesn't look like there's been anything official released/updated for a while
<diplo> Nope, thought I'd have a go for our sites, after Wimpys slating of Mint that I've found out recently we use on customers sites
<diddledan> I been spam abuse reporting :-p
<diddledan> doing my bit :-D
<diddledan> I just like trolling the senders
<diddledan> trolling as in getting them kicked from their providers
<zmoylan-pi> what about their freedom of speech?!!? :-P
<diddledan> your freedom of speech doesn't trump my freedom to punch you
<zmoylan-pi> that nazi found that out very nicely...
<daftykins> diddledan: good man! on the kicking of spammers
<diddledan> oh, was daftykins a spammer?
<diddledan> he disappeared so I'm assuming got booted :-p
<zmoylan-pi> shhh, he's back!
 * daftykins strolls in all nonchalant
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoiu8_K-eZg
<daftykins> *WHOOSH*
<daftykins> decidedly more whoosh than Star Trek
<zmoylan-pi> you can't beat trek for having the whooshiest doors...
<daftykins> i dunno, that Futurama clip sounded pretty whooshy
<zmoylan-pi> merely copying trek....
<diddledan> I think we need a whoosh off
<daftykins> but louder!
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder if the helicopter that had jets at end of it's props is still functional... that was supposed to be the loudest whoosh ever...
<daftykins> that osprey thing?
<zmoylan-pi> no no, much longerer ago
<zmoylan-pi> in the olden times
<diddledan> blue thunder?
<daftykins> diddledan: well, if you're buying
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Rotodyne
<diddledan> oh it had to be those nutty brits!
<daftykins> hmm funky!
<zmoylan-pi> same crazy buggers who made vtol planes 'practical'
<diddledan> mm, a crazy burger sounds like a plan
<zmoylan-pi> mmmmm, mad cow....
<daftykins> ooh that would go down well
 * daftykins chuckles at the US fellas that just emailed him instead of Donald Kins yet again
<daftykins> also scolded the guy for typing in all caps :P
<daftykins> "ALSO HE SAID HE TEXTED YOU SOME BIDS LAST NIGHT FOR HIS ROOF HE SIAD YOU ASKED HIM TO GET.  CAN YOU UPLOAD THOSE TO THE FILE FOR OUR RECORD? THANKS."
<diddledan> NO!
<daftykins> never!
<diddledan> I wonder who Donald Kins is
<diddledan> and why they think dafty is similar to donald
<diddledan> (/me assumes your real name is dafty! :-p)
<daftykins> well funnily enough his gmail is identical to mine but with '8' on the end
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> strangedude8@gmail.com?
<daftykins> so dkins8@ - apart from kins actually being my real surname ;D
<diddledan> wait, kins isn't your real surname?!
<zmoylan-pi> respond with a pic of you tactfully posed with a union jack...
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> diddledan: :D i gotcha!
<daftykins> no no no, the Guernsey flag naturally
<diddledan> that'll confuse him
<daftykins> last time he apologised but tried to get me to discuss our family tree
<zmoylan-pi> you pointed out it's more of a shrub than a tree... :-P
<diddledan> nobody knows what the Guernsey flag looks like. and if they see it they can't figure-out what it's supposed to be
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that's somewhat of a personal matter
<daftykins> it's quite a nice flag, as flags go
<zmoylan-pi> not the worst https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Guernsey
<diddledan> ooh, so _that's_ where the Knights Templar ended-up?
 * daftykins whistles
<daftykins> "you ain't seen me, roight?"
<zmoylan-pi> that's a stabbin...
<daftykins> Mr. A Stabbin?
<diddledan> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7b/39/91/7b3991fab6715a62ffb28d709b82f4eb.jpg
<daftykins> is that Muffy the Carrot Slayer?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> and kendra
<diddledan> also a carrot slayer
<diddledan> this explains a bit more https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8b/51/38/8b5138f122d98432242e014cedd8569f.jpg
<daftykins> hmm looks like she had a narrow escape with Mr.Pointy to the side of the head already
<daftykins> what a surprise, got a reply in caps...
<diddledan> how clear were you that caps were unacceptible?
<diddledan> able*
<zmoylan-pi> they're probably from texas... tis a big place and you need to shout a lot :-P
<daftykins> it was quite polite
<diddledan> aah. that's a n00b mistake.
<diddledan> you should have shoved it up his....
<diddledan> throat
<daftykins> well now it's tempting ;)
<daftykins> but nah, best to treat folks like they live next door really
<zmoylan-pi> i'm surprised no one has made a gag keyboard for sale that will eltrocute users...
<diddledan> are you suggesting that I don't shove things down the asses of my neighbours?!
<zmoylan-pi> i wondered what happened to all those pineapples...
<diddledan> haha
<daftykins> or just a shock collar attachment
<diddledan> someone I chat to in a different room had a run-in with a chanop and mention of pineapple insertions
<daftykins> Eau my.
<zmoylan-pi> one of their 5 a day...
<daftykins> i think South Park covered eating things that way
<diddledan> they would have
<diddledan> so, if A KGB guy working a false flag as an American based out of GCHQ working on behalf of the Israelis pretending to be an Iranian gets caught by the Saudis. who bargains for his release?
<zmoylan-pi> and were do they bury them when the mission is over...
<diddledan> they don't. they fly him into the sun.
<zmoylan-pi> after a nice big mug of polonium tea...
<diddledan> tasty
<zmoylan-pi> puts ready brek in the shade for a nice glow
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> green glow is better than orange
<diddledan> I mean, hulk. enough said.
<zmoylan-pi> orange is natures warning colour...
<diddledan> green means go
<diddledan> so it can't be bad
<diddledan> home finished frenchy bread ftw
 * diddledan got the oven on to bake some
<diddledan> just waiting for it to be ready for insertion
 * zmoylan-pi had some soda bread as toast for tea
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-01
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ8kCGEgOsY&feature=youtu.be&t=3288
<daftykins> i'm famous!
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> I was just watching Louis
<m0nkey_> I'm like, I know that name
<daftykins> :D :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pqc5sug01qxmeca/AABsmP5EW-kiMOgWyMhB-ujha?dl=0
<daftykins> i just took another stab at the third one but i don't think i got it right
<daftykins> i email'd him how i did it and he just replied earlier with "Thank you SO MUCH!!!"
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> april fools day when the internet is crap for 36 hours or so...
<MartijnVdS> it's less bad than usual, because it's a Saturday
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully
<brobostigon> ]shame my little brothers birthday is today, :), hehe
<zmoylan-pi> so many ways to crush their self confidence with april fools jokes every birthday...
<brobostigon> yeah. :D
<zmoylan-pi> no no, you're not 18 this year. we got a fake birth cert made just after you were born to make you a month older... so you can't drink on your 18th birthday... longest setup to a joke ever \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> is a clue in cuneiform too difficult for D&D?
<zmoylan-pi> depends... do they need to read it or recognise it?
<brobostigon> both
<zmoylan-pi> then it may cause a slight problem...
<brobostigon> abit od deciphering.
<brobostigon> i agree, hence it might be too difficult.
<zmoylan-pi> unless it's at i owe you one goat level :-P
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> one of the clues for the lst game was too simple, missing binary numbers in a sequence of numbers.
<zmoylan-pi> you could give the clue but have a npc high priced translator wander past if they take more than 15 mins with it?
<brobostigon> good thinking batman, :)
<zmoylan-pi> what you really want is cleese in armour to beat some symarian into them... :-P
<brobostigon> hehe
<brobostigon> sumerian?
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't cuniform their written language?
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> and the hittites and babylonians and a couple of others.
<zmoylan-pi> quite a few yes... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform_script
<diddledan> don't you love that the little people (sometimes known as midgets or dwarfs) were mentioned in the bible?
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: :)
<diddledan> i.e. the kneehites and the shoehighes
<diddledan> shoehights*
<diddledan> speelign might be wrong**
<diddledan> ok, so ebay think I'm a child molester now?
<diddledan> they're advertising at me in my email today "polly pocket" and "barbie"
<zmoylan-pi> when you were really looking for a bigtrak
<diddledan> did you see the ride-on bigtrak?
<zmoylan-pi> yes
<zmoylan-pi> at that point it's a car...
<diddledan> http://sciencedemo.org/2014/04/riding-bigtrak/
<diddledan> eben from the raspberry pi got to ride it iirc
<zmoylan-pi> i saw an original bigtrak in flea market a few months back in dublin
<Azelphur> Does anyone know any good software for using the Pi Zero as an IP camera? I want it to be viewable in a web browser, I don't like motion because it uses mjpeg which is low framerate, I'd much prefer something that actually streams video using html5
<halt> Hey all, does anyone know the status of hibernation and / or session save & restore  in ubuntu, in the past years with the new versions non of that look like to be working, I just wonder why
<halt> I think it's a pretty useful thing, even if it's difficult, but not if this should be distro, or DE specific
<daftykins> halt: what version are you on and what's your hardware?
<halt> Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS / Lenovo Thinkpad x260
<daftykins> so what happens when you try to make use of hibernate?
<halt> nothing as far as I can see
<halt> I enabled it, and choose it for a default action on power button push and lid close
<daftykins> halt: that's not very descriptive... does the screen blank? does the system power off? is it solely 'resume' that fails? details, details...
<daftykins> always worth ensuring you have a sufficient swap partition size to handle both active memory use and the RAM contents on going down for hibernate, too
<halt> I have not dive into the logs, too much but when I say nothing happens I mean nothing, I kind of give up on it for the time being, as it has not been working for ages, and even the "enable" option is hacky does not feel like something supported
<halt> btw the default installer create the same amount of swap as mem, and I have not changed that, so the swap is there and available if needed, most of the time I don't use even half of the physical memory
<daftykins> nah see 'nothing' is useless, unless qualified with "when i click on hibernate or close the lid, it does not attempt to hibernate"
<daftykins> that'd be better.
<halt> daftykins:  I do appreciate the help with the the current issue itself, and you are right to say that I'm not being to helpful, I should have ready logs and description, but I don't want to solve it for myself, I would love to see this resolved, and basic at least for the next LTS
<halt> I'm suffering with few more bugs around docking and etc, but that is an edge case, but the hibernation and the continue where I left off is two things which not only would like
<halt> at least I believe that is the case, so my question is more around the why is it not default, why this functions does not get enough love from the devs
<penguin42> halt: I suggest opening a terminal and doing a sudo journalctl -f     and then press the button to hibernate  and see if any interesting messages spew out
<halt> sure I will try that later
<daftykins> halt: i know what you mean but essentially telling folks to 'fix an entire distro' based off one feature on one machine is a bit bold
<daftykins> so many configurations out there after all :)
<halt> it can be  enabled make / model based, I know that some driver issues failed to power back on parts of the hw or send notifications about it etc, but if at least some of the big names play nicely then have them a better integration,  the power off dialogue does not even have a space for hibernate, so clearly this is not something what they have in mind, I'm just not sure why
<daftykins> is your machine on the latest BIOS?
<daftykins> sorry but you signed up to this kind of thing when you chose Linux
<halt> don't get me wrong I like to dive into a problem, I really like to, even did few kernel patches for my BT keyboard, there is no trouble there, but that is new hw issue, which got now into the mainline kernel no issue, so moving fw the hibernate and the save session is getting removed, existing function stopped to be working and that is the way back
<penguin42> see if the logs say anything first
<halt> you mean the git log on the commits where there removed this function ?
<penguin42> no I mean the journalctl log to see if you can see the problem before delving into anything specific about drivers etc
<daftykins> eh you're claiming they removed it now?
<halt> I see, well I don't know I have not looked at the logs, but again I'm not asking for help with specific issue, I'm trying to talk about the issue with the development priorities and directions, and yes I think at the point when the power dialogue does not have a button that can be considered as removed, the fact that it's only available in cli, does suggest that the direction of changes point to the discontinues of the function not to the improvement
<daftykins> oh right removed the hibernate function, yeah think i heard that (i don't use desktop *buntu)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-02
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<KnightPh0ne> morning
<penguin42> Three's 'wunto' app logo is very confusing - the logo is interestingly curved and reminds me of hte early Ubuntu
<marshmn> OT: anyone have a recommendation for ADSL router?
<marshmn> mine seems to be playing up these days so I think it's time for a change...
<daftykins> marshmn: you really still on ADSL? not VDSL etc
<penguin421> daftykins: It's not available everywhere
<daftykins> i know.
<penguin421> daftykins: I can get ADSL here or cable but no vdsl
<daftykins> reason i ask is it wouldn't be worth buying the former if there's even a chance of change in the future
<penguin421> daftykins: well if you actually want some bits you may as well buy something to get you some bits
<daftykins> i don't get what you're saying, you can either buy fixed ADSL only cheap devices or ones capable of both now, so i say make sure it's capable of both :)
<marshmn> I'm on ADSL right now
<daftykins> nothing else in your area?
<marshmn> I could probably get VDSL
<marshmn> I've not looked into it
<daftykins> wouldn't hurt to just check before buying something
<marshmn> maybe
<penguin421> daftykins: I know people in areas where the VDSL is so bad it's not much better than ADSL
<daftykins> do you rely solely on the router for the whole house too, or do you have any cabled infrastructure or other access points?
<daftykins> penguin421: well it solely depends on line length, i still think it's better to have a device capable of both - i don't think you're really adding anything to this topic
<marshmn> I only have a small flat, so it's not really much of a problem for things like that
<daftykins> ah right, single device only then would probably do
<marshmn> yes
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-Connections-UK-Archer-VR400/dp/B01LFGTEI6/
<daftykins> this one would probably be cheap and cheerful enough
<daftykins> i've put in the N600 only variant previously for a rented out house, supports both xDSL technologies too
<penguin421> daftykins: It's not just line length, it's also how bad the line is - like whether it's some second rate twisted piece of corroding alumnium through a swamp with 200 other lines cuddling up to it over an arcing electrical connection and a squirrel
<marshmn> daftykins: OK, thanks
<daftykins> penguin421: yes my whole island uses solely it and i resolve the issues myself, please stop with the stating the obvious
<penguin421> daftykins: OK, it's just I know a few friends who theoretically should be able to get great VDSL and have a disaster of a connection
<daftykins> *nod* i'm sure there are service checkers over there to work out how far you are from your exchange, and local knowledge to know if you're in one of the nasty copper coated aluminium or worse spots
<diddledan> daftykins: get BT broadband because they provide their best ever wireless conenction when you get their fixed-line.
 * diddledan mumbles about stupid adverts
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> thankfully no BT down here
<penguin421> diddledan: Have you tried it dangling out of a helicopter?
<penguin421> daftykins: yeh you see that's your advantage
<diddledan> and the one I saw tonight which gets stupid points is "good entertainment requires amazing wifi. virgin fibre broadband."
 * penguin421 still moans it's not fibre
<diddledan> yeah, there's the whole coax is not fibre too, but fixed line has no effect on the quality of my wifi
<daftykins> heh yeah, also they all seem to toss around 'MB' in their literature
<penguin421> nod
<diddledan> daftykins: 100MegaBytes per Second?!
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> weird quirk i've identified with the xbox one bluray player app, it dims the screen during playback of one disc of a TV series after ~12 minutes, but doesn't do it to a movie title
<daftykins> brb
<marshmn> the main issue I'm having with my current router is that it seems to keep randomly switching into "AP isolation" mode and not letting any WiFi clients talk to each other even though they can all connect out
<marshmn> what fun.
 * penguin421 really likes using wires
<daftykins> marshmn: that used to be a specific option mmm, does it actually have one and toggle it - or does the behaviour just change?
<marshmn> there is an option - it just doesn't seem to do much
<marshmn> or rather, it works ok for a while after a reboot...
<marshmn> and then at some point stops letting things talk to each other
<marshmn> the option remains in its 'disabled' state
<daftykins> have you gone as far as a full factory reset? if so, sounds like game over time
<marshmn> daftykins: yeah, been there and tried that
<daftykins> yep sounds like a flaky piece o' kit then :>
<daftykins> it's annoying how subtly they go wrong
<zmoylan-pi> that's why hammers were invented... :-)
<m0nkey_> daftykins is bothering Louis again
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> and he copped out! he's just staying sick instead of fixing things! ;)
<daftykins> i dunno why he persists with these GPU replacements, he doesn't even like them himself XD
<m0nkey_> it pays the bills
<m0nkey_> Now, do I want to buy a 1TB SSD?
<daftykins> nah he has refused to do them for the last x number of years because it doesn't work, he only started recently because his pal said there was a good set of chips to buy that work - but they don't :D
<daftykins> err for what?
<m0nkey_> My computer. I'm low on space
<daftykins> best combo is really still SSD for OS and mechanical for data, if it's a machine that can take one of each
<m0nkey_> I have spinning disks in my NAS
<m0nkey_> But it's not fast enough for what I want
<daftykins> or add a second SSD for games
<m0nkey_> The second SSD is for my Steam library
<daftykins> ja same, well plus the other game platforms
<daftykins> i still keep a local spinner for a copy of my music collection as well as my file server
<m0nkey_> I never bought a spinning disk for this PC :)
<m0nkey_> I thought 500GB would be enough
<daftykins> so what are you running out on, the games one? i've filled my 512GB games SSD pretty easily
<m0nkey_> I have a 500GB used as my single drive in my PC
<m0nkey_> But most of that 500GB is Steam
<m0nkey_> I'd say a good 80% :)
<zmoylan-pi> better cooling to condense the data? :-P
<m0nkey_> lol
<daftykins> yeah you want to separate those roles :P
<m0nkey_> $350 is a lot to swallow for a SSD! lol
<daftykins> well you're trying to put it all on one drive, which is ridiculous
<zmoylan-pi> price is coming down though, so there's that...
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> This will be a second SSD
<daftykins> right but it would've been better to have 2+ already :>
<m0nkey_> lol
<daftykins> i have my OS on M.2 and the games on a spare old SATA SSD
<daftykins> as in, M.2 PCIe SSD
<m0nkey_> sold
<m0nkey_> I'm considering this purchase as payback for the wife going to Cuba this week
<daftykins> :O and you didn't even get asked to carry the bags?
<m0nkey_> No, I had to do that
<m0nkey_> lol, looks like her flight has been delayed
<m0nkey_> muhahaha
<daftykins> oooh burn
<m0nkey_> Just had an update, plane is delayed because people have been asked to leave the plane and they're having to get their luggage.
<daftykins> they must be wearing leggings
<daftykins> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> no no jeggings... for this jet age...
<daftykins> ah har
<diddledan> m0nkey_: why she going to cuba?
<zmoylan-pi> for the broadband...
<daftykins> for the cigars!
<zmoylan-pi> and a bottle of rum...
<m0nkey_> Sent her to buy me a bottle of rum
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i didn't even know there was anything about cuba and rum
<daftykins> mmm paella time
<m0nkey_> Looks like the plane has pushed back and is taxing
 * m0nkey_ loves flightradar24.com
<zmoylan-pi> taxing... trying everyones nerves then... :-P
<daftykins> mrs.m0nkey doesn't have to be taxing!
<daftykins> hmm i wonder if that guy is still around, the one that did those history programs whilst cycling around on a yellow and pink bike
<m0nkey_> *taxiing :P
<daftykins> Adam Hart Davis
<daftykins> "He also appeared in TV advertisements for HM Revenue & Customs with the catchphrase "tax doesn't have to be taxing". Following a statement from Hart-Davis, in which he mentioned the level of complexities within the UK tax system, his contract with HM Revenue & Customs ended."
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> m0nkey_: ooh those melted balls... (Louis)
<m0nkey_> lol
<daftykins> that was neat hw
<daftykins> *how you could see them melt then the chip glide into place
<daftykins> i'm... kind of confused by that result
<m0nkey_> Wife's flight has departed
<daftykins> i heard that sigh from here ;)
<m0nkey_> Only 2 hours late :)
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> Good morning everyone :)
<knightwise> So my dual screen setup is working awesome :)
<knightwise> Vm in one window fullscreen , native int he other
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<diplo> How are things knightwise ?
<knightwise> Doing ok . Not enough time to geek out but what else is new
<knightwise> at least with the bigger house i have some more room to set stuff up
<diplo> hah sounds good, I have no time to do anything at home now a days
<diddledan> wow. the 18.04 file manager has had a facelift
<diddledan> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/1iqWjtLO/
<diddledan> Whoever is managing the community fund I'll take two, please :-p : https://www.ebuyer.com/756117-acer-rt280k-28-4k-ultra-hd-led-monitor-um-pr0ee-001
<diplo> I asked my boss for those :/
<diddledan> 8-bit guy's review of the c64 mini": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXXCj5kqPcM
<daftykins> just got my 4 x AAA pack of panasonic eneloop rechargeables :O! pesky amazon FireTV remote is quite the juice craver
<daftykins> diddledan: i want to break his ancient Apple wifi access point :P
<daftykins> interesting piece on radio 2 about how many cyclists fall foul of pothole ridden roads up there, sheesh - some nasty accidents
 * zmoylan-pi remebers riding in the 90s. hitting potholes and landing on the pavement... :-)
<daftykins> oof
<zmoylan-pi> well my other choice was under a land rover... you could see the bind i was in... :-)
<daftykins> indeed! was it a road bike?
<zmoylan-pi> mountain bike-ish... basically a road frame with mountain bike fork and wheels
<daftykins> ah so not skinny tires?
<zmoylan-pi> nah, big thick tyres.  i chose the bike for that reason for extra grip on bad surfaces
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> who are you saying has a thick tyre?!
<diddledan> I resemble that remark!
 * diddledan looks at his belly and pouts
 * zmoylan-pi passes the rice cakes... mmmmm, cardboardy....
<diddledan> I bought a poshy sainsbury's chocolate cake this week. and it's not my birthday!
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully you paid cash.... or big data will tell the insurance company and bump your rates...
<daftykins> diddledan: ooh you devil
<zmoylan-pi> only if he sat outside weight watchers window and ate it by himself... :-P
<daftykins> xD
<diddledan> no comment
<diddledan> charlie brown went off to join the parachute brigade
<diddledan> charlie brown went off to join the parachute brigade
<diddledan> charlie brown went off to join the parachute brigade, and 'e ain't gonna jump no more.
<diddledan> glory glory what a helluva way to die, suspended by ya braces when you don't know how to fly
<diddledan> glory glory what a helluva way to die, and 'e ain't gonna jump no more.
<daftykins> diddledan: psst, fella in another #u channel playing with bionic on an iMac - have you encountered *buntu use with those desktop touchpad accessories at all?
<daftykins> my guess he's totally out of luck
<diddledan> nope, not tried that
<daftykins> ok ta
<daftykins> encountered one on a clients machine, horrible to use xD
<diddledan> gimme a mouse anyday
<daftykins> agreed :D
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-27
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> hey zmoylan-pi
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> do you know if there might be a BBS client in the Ubuntu repositories ?
 * knightwise is curious
<zmoylan-pi> how would you test it? are there any bbs still operating in uk?
<knightw0rk> zmoylan-pi: i heard the cyberpunk librarian talk about it on his show
<knightw0rk> apparently there are still bbs severs connected to the net on port 22
<zmoylan-pi> i hope they support kermit... i can't stand those namby pamby wishy washy fiddly new file transfer protocols... :-D
<knightw0rk> would just like to know how you connect and what is still there
<knightw0rk> I love legacy tech (hence IRC)
<zmoylan-pi> it's _THE_ place for you star trek vga res wallpagers...
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/suchipi/status/978332662141104128
<knightw0rk>  	
<knightw0rk> asirta.com (telnet)
<knightw0rk> try it
<diddledan> what do we think we're getting from apple today, then?
<diddledan> (1hr 15min)
<SuperMatt> another product that was clearly invented somewhere else, but now has a new name
<diddledan> no live steam today
<zmoylan-pi> a cheap ipad. well for apple... 0 ports to make charging more fun... it'll be like an etch a sketch. shake it to charge it... keeps kids fit too... :-)
<daftykins> y'know the super skinny 12" macbooks launched ~2015 or so? they've all begun having the keyboards fail / a component on the board fails rendering them useless :D
<diddledan> yey
<daftykins> at least Louis on youtube has been seeing a large influx of them
<diddledan> didn't those have a weird keyspring that people universally hated?
<daftykins> yeah new design that's super clacky
<diddledan> GNU Terry Pratchett
<diddledan> oh you didn't mean clacks overhead
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/TunnelsUp/status/976536957751910400
<daftykins> they've never heard of "dial before you dig!"
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/reneritchie/status/978647405196402688 does anyone else think of the Matt LeBlanc version of Lost In Space when you see or hear the word "blorp"?
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/settern/status/978648488614551553 what's an "apple pencil style drawing"?
<diddledan> apple are helping out in schools: https://images.scribblelive.com/2018/3/27/588b500c-ca48-48cb-80e8-ed59c82ed593.jpg (shot taken last week)
<diddledan> Huston, we have an iPad.
<diddledan> REpeat, we have an iPad
<diddledan> what is it with american schools and cutting open frogs?! com
<diddledan> err... http://www.twitter.com/settern/status/978655353641594880
<daftykins> * Houston :D
<diddledan> spillage chucker didn't complain....!
<daftykins> funny part was reading yours wiped my memory of the real one for a minute
<zmoylan-pi> the matt leblanc version of lost in space is the first movie i stopped watching half way through after renting it... awful
<diddledan> snob
<daftykins> did you rewind the tape in anger?
<zmoylan-pi> of course
<zmoylan-pi> and i'll watch the worst sci fi but that lost in space was a step too far...
<diddledan> well they're rebooting it so you get another chance to hate it
<daftykins> i just had flashbacks to all the sound effects my parents 80s VCR made during every function
<zmoylan-pi> and you could tell from the motor whine how close it was to the end of the tape...
<diddledan> eeeerrrrkk chunter chunter chunter clip
<diddledan> click*
<zmoylan-pi> top loading sony tank vcr... also known as the cat tosser... for reasons...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: yes xD
<diddledan> tosser!
<diddledan> apparently Apple used Swift to make Swift Playgrounds. duh
<diddledan> http://www.twitter.com/settern/status/978659825746931713
<diddledan> and the curriculum goes "from step one" to the end
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/settern/status/978660024162676736
<zmoylan-pi> a is for appleâ¢ï¸
<diddledan> apple are replacing teachers with unpaid workers: http://www.twitter.com/reneritchie/status/978660893331304448
<zmoylan-pi> school arts and crafts is now assemble apple gear...
<daftykins> diddledan: i think it might be more efficient to wait for a wrap up piece ;)
<zmoylan-pi> but then he can't bounce up and down with excitement over a $329 9.7" ipad
<diddledan> $30 off for students!
<diddledan> that's a whopping 9%
<zmoylan-pi> unless they want to use an ipencil in which case add $99
<diddledan> nah, sturends get $10 off that ! :-p
<diddledan> wtf is a sturend?
<zmoylan-pi> sturgeons pretenting to be students...
<diddledan> I think that's it for the show
<zmoylan-pi> so... interesting but probably not enough to halt google. they might jump over ms though
<daftykins> MS don't have tablets?
<zmoylan-pi> they have surface pros.  but apple are at 17% v ms 22% and googles 60% in education market
<daftykins> they're obviously not in the same segment though, lowest tier iPads + Surfaces
<zmoylan-pi> and the surface pro although it has had great reviews has had terrible hardware failure rates
<daftykins> in the first two generations yeah
<zmoylan-pi> that might be enough to sink it
<daftykins> they properly had the customers test 'em ;D
<zmoylan-pi> well it seems to have passed the customer banging their head against the desk it's resting on...
<diddledan> apparently nvidia are doing something, too: https://www.ustream.tv/gpu-technology-conference
<daftykins> maybe unveiling their new 'volta' gen at last
<daftykins> he's got his trademark leather jacket!
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/marciahofmann/status/978637746855006210
<daftykins> sheesh
<zmoylan-pi> the nvidia bitcoin miner card... :-)
<diddledan> htf are they doing realtime raytracing?!
<diddledan> hah, ok $68000 computer
<daftykins> a piece i read the other day with Tim Sweeney from Epic said... yeah, 4 graphics cards in one
<diddledan> sigh. deep learning
<diddledan> bingo!
<diddledan> who didn't have deep learning on their bingo card??
<zmoylan-pi> trump?
<diddledan> lol: https://twitter.com/kylealden/status/978674740406640640
<daftykins> "and where's the machine you do real work on?"
<daftykins> ergh these images are too small in the nvidia pres
<zmoylan-pi> you mean my emacs console? :-) https://78.media.tumblr.com/42076a3e5a77a0ff6e3fa93567e1f9aa/tumblr_p62jdzvyqb1qz6f9yo1_1280.jpg
<diddledan> is that kim jong-un at the end?
<zmoylan-pi> so far away you can't tell...
<daftykins> nah that's Shatner
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> that's a beast nvidia thingy
<diddledan> the 16 Tesla V100
<diddledan> DGX-2
<diddledan> 2 petafloppies
<diddledan> 10kiloWatts, though, is probably meaning it is a bit too beafy for my cupboard
<daftykins> diddledan: time to pop one under your desk
<zmoylan-pi> you'll need *2* hamsters in wheels to power it!
<daftykins> oof that's going to double his infrastructure
<diddledan> frak
<diddledan> that means twice the gruel expenditure
<zmoylan-pi> the costs in wd40 alone to stop the wheels squeaking at night...
<diddledan> I prefer using children to hamsters, anyway.. they're less needy
<diddledan> and easily replaced
<daftykins> that's true
<daftykins> your siblings stop answering the orders pretty quickly though
<diddledan> $1.5 meeeleon dollar
<diddledan> oh alright, 399 fowsand
<daftykins> his needle needs to be nudged, he keeps getting stuck!
<diddledan> apparently it's RTM day: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/155147/windows-10-redstone-4-rtm-released-insiders
<daftykins> oh my
<diddledan> is it me, or is the nvidia dude a bit looney?
<daftykins> i think like he said it's just because he's not prepared xD
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> but yeah there's a lot of nuttery here
<daftykins> degenerator networks?
<diddledan> lol he got lost
<diddledan> I don't blame him though, machine learning acronyms are terrible
<daftykins> earlier though he kept badgering that guy to speak, then kept talking over him
<daftykins> diddledan: there we go he just referenced us!
<diddledan> d'oh I was concentrating elsewhere
<daftykins> oh he just said "all the people watching this online will be saying i've lost it"
<diddledan> aha lol
<daftykins> it doesn't matter if it's one, all it's doing is a swoosh across a bunch of flower pics!
<daftykins> diddledan: looks like consumer news is coming :O
<daftykins> think it was on a different day last year though
<diddledan> that's a name
<diddledan> noise to noise denoising
<diddledan> what noise annoys a noisy oyster?
<zmoylan-pi> ah shucks?
<diddledan> nah, a noisy noise annoys a noisy oyster
<diddledan> I had an awesome problem with my Win10 Insider install.. too many C:\Windows.old(n) where n is a number that it refused to let me delete... until I used the Windows Subsystem for Linux and deleted them from that
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> disk cleanup wizard does 'em too
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> only does non numbered ones
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> that's a bit fail
<diddledan> i.e. only C:\Windows.old not C:\Windows.old(1)
<daftykins> but then so is running insider!
<daftykins> y'got that RTM build now, then?
<diddledan> not yet. I haven't let it reboot
<daftykins> ah so you're testing it like a standard Windows user, stubbornly avoiding updates ;D
<diddledan> yup. you can't find all the bugs unless you defer updates for weeks
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> letting yourself get hacked by running a non-updated release, through a hole that they've since fixed, is a bug, right?
<daftykins> probably to someone :D
 * diddledan watching an fbi drama.. is it appropriate to use weapons from the evidence locker to kill bad guys?
<daftykins> oh speaking of bugs and what not, my Asus Z170 mobo finally got the update with the new microcode in after the recent dramas, you had one for your board too? i forget if it was gigabyte or MSI
<diddledan> yup, mine's the giganut z170-ud5 th
<diddledan> I installed that about a week ago maybe?
<daftykins> ah maybe they're just a lot quicker
<daftykins> or maybe it's a lot buggier :D
<diddledan> they've released three different editions (the previous two have since disappeared from their site)
<diddledan> versions F22e, and F22f have disappeared, leaving just F22g as the latest and the previous one before that listed as F22d
<daftykins> could be the ones that were causing reboots
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> one of them was the january 30/31 release of microcode
<diddledan> which was the evil buggy bar tender
<daftykins> speaking of bars... the restaurant by me that recently refurbished went from a shocking 2 boring beers on tap, to 0
<zmoylan-pi> just order the toilet duck so... :-)
<daftykins> *quack*
<diddledan> haha! sucks to be you :-p
<diddledan> I vote long island iced teas instead
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/norcross/status/978357554010099712
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-28
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<knightw0rk> hey everyone
<brobostigon> hi
<knightwise> morning
 * Laney checks this is #ubuntu-uk
<Laney> good
<Laney> this cold is UNACCEPTABLE!
<knightwise> hey Laney
<knightwise> agree
<knightwise> it should be 15c outside
<Laney> down with this sort of thing I say
<zmoylan-pi> careful now
<knightwise> My wife thinks i'm nuts
<knightwise> ive been crawling BBS's last nigh$
<knightwise> she could not understand what (or why) i was doing that :)
<Laney> they still exist?
<ujjain2> Can you say Â´consider as doneÂ´ in English or Â´consider it doneÂ´?
<SuperMatt> we would say "consider it done"
<SuperMatt> which means that you haven't done it yet, but it will be done in no time at all, it's my top priority, and you don't need to worry about it
<ujjain2> ah really
<ujjain2> I thought it was already done then
<ujjain2> thanks SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> it does not mean it is already done
<ujjain2> ah ok, I am Dutch, always just assumed
<ujjain2> but it makes sense, else it would be just Â¨doneÂ¨, not Â¨consider as doneÂ¨
<ujjain2> makes sense
<SuperMatt> The best use would be in an office, someone walks up to my desk and asks for a change. I will say "consider it done" if I know I'll have it finished by the time they get back to their desk
<ujjain2> Yeah, makes sense. I just sent an email Â¨consider as doneÂ¨ after already having done it. I will try to remember what you said.
<SuperMatt> You could also use "consider it done" for when you've made the change, but there is some delay before the change takes effect
<Laney> xnox: got one of those sim cards you posted about on facebook
<Laney> the library's wifi has crapped out one too many times
<xnox> Laney, =)))) whoop whoop
<Laney> what do you use it with?
<xnox> Laney, i was pondering to blog about it.
<xnox> Laney, I ported my mobile phone number to A&A ISP for it to become a SIP number, and I just have the PAYG card in my phone.
<xnox> and tether off that, and use that all the time now.
<Laney> data only?
<xnox> yeap
<Laney> works with the native phone apps or you have to use something else?
<xnox> and make & receive calls via SIP -> because stock android phone dialer, has SIP accounts built-in, in the settings.
<Laney> ah nice
<xnox> Laney, you can add and test e.g. canonical VOIP in there too.
<Laney> I got a hotspot thing this time
<Laney> might consider that at some point
<xnox> yeah, or e.g. many phones are dual-sim these days.
<xnox> hence you can have active backup data-only sim ;-)
<Laney> yeah mine is
<Laney> guess I could use that to make a hotspot / tether
<xnox> if you have usb stick hotspot, some Wi-Fi routers accept that via USB, to have home-wifi active backup to 4g too.
<Laney> I paid three for their tethering addon but it was so so so crap
<Laney> every 10 minutes it would die and show me the "why are you tethering you bad person?" page
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<knightw0rk> hey brobostigon
<knightw0rk> how are you doing today
<knightw0rk>  hey zmoylan-pi
<SuperMatt> just ordered a new laptop \o/
<SuperMatt> gonna install the daily image of 18.04 immediately
<SuperMatt> minimal version too, because I don't need a lot of the stuff it comes with
<NET||abuse> hm,, does anyone understand dockerfile's and VOLUME directives?
<NET||abuse> when you do docker run -v /host/path:/container/path you are specifying all th epaths, so what does the VOLUME statement do in the dockerfile?
<ujjain> NET||abuse, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40163036/difference-between-volume-declaration-in-dockerfile-and-v-as-docker-run-paramet
<SuperMatt> I think it's there so you can give hints to volumes that *should* be mounted before docker run
<diddledan> yeah I think it's a metadata thing only
<diddledan> aah that stackoverflow helps
<diddledan> well done, ujjain :-)
<ujjain> YouÂ´re welcome, I sometimes forget to google stuff too, but if you know the right keywords to search for, sometimes you find good answers
<ujjain> my new name is Frank Aggot
<SuperMatt> oops, just found my personal backups weren't backing up mysql correctly :/
<daftykins> D:
<SuperMatt> it was silently failing because I forgot to give the backup user select permissions!
<SuperMatt> but it could still get some metadata out, but no actual data
<SuperMatt> tonight's backup should be perfect though
<SuperMatt> I'm prepping for next month when I switch to bionic
<daftykins> i was doing a 7TB rsync the other day, somehow it was running at 133MB/sec over gigabit LAN... it smelled fishy so i breaked, only to see permission errors xD
<diddledan> my ISP is struggling to contain a DoS
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed it stops before the weekend...
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Merblammo> Hi. I'm trying to dual boot xubuntu on a laptop that already had Windows 10, but the only thing that ever boots off the HDD is Win10. I've disabled secure boot, disabled hibernate, but Grub never loads. Help :s
<Merblammo> Btw xubuntu is installed, just won't boot
<Seeker`> http://www.spacex.com/webcast iridium 5 launch in ~4 minutes
<penguin42> hmm, not usual presenter
<spaceloop> t
<diddledan> spaceloop: this isn't minecraft, you don't need to press T to talk
<spaceloop> thanks diddledan, it was my actually irc client popping open ubuntu-uk as I was trying to /join
 * penguin42 fights a dist-upgrade - it's recreating initrd's for kernel versions that don't exist and filling /boot
<penguin42> oh, that's damn annoying: https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/03/spacex-launches-a-rocket-but-noaa-prevented-some-of-it-from-being-shown/
<TJ-> penguin42: "update-initramfs -d -k <version>" for each non-existent version
<penguin42> TJ-: Hmm, what does that do other than delete it from /boot ?
<TJ-> penguin42: removes the reference from /var/lib/initrams-tools/<version>
<penguin42> TJ-: Why doesn't that happen automatically when the kernel dpkg's are removed?
<TJ-> s/rams/ramfs/
<TJ-> When the system runs out of space it bails before it reaches the code that removes the reference
<penguin42> oh, that's unfortunate - so you mean when it runs out of space it end s up not doing the thing that could avoid it running out of space?
<TJ-> penguin42: yes; if I recall correctly it's due to postponed triggers, and then bailing before triggers are carried out
<penguin42> TJ-: Thanks; I'd ended up removing the /var/lib/initramfs-tools by hand and was upgraded before getting your reply; one for next time
<TJ-> I've got a script to do it automatically that has come in useful for users in #ubuntu, and I wrote some instructions a couple days ago. There's a tip at the end might help for the future: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Thdtg9jCjp/
<penguin42> nod
<Azelphur> I'm really trying hard to get along with duckduckgo, but it kinda sucks, is there any way to make it less terrible?
<DJones> Afternoonall
<daftykins> Azelphur: i'd been playing with it on my desktop too, it is annoying you have to explicitly go to the images section sometimes - and results haven't been that ace - what are you seeing?
<daftykins> hi DJones \o
<Azelphur> daftykins: just terrible results
<DJones> daftykins: How do, long time nospeaketc,hope things are goodwith you
<Azelphur> daftykins: I mean, I could see myself using it with !g every time - but I suppose that kinda violates the point
<DJones> Excuse lack of  spaces, need to de-crumb my keyboard
<daftykins> DJones: :D yeah not too bad thanks, 2017 was a year of drama with house insurance works due to water leaks - but everywhere is nicely insulated and i got a new bathroom out of it too \o/ so pretty ace! how's about in your corner of the world?
<DJones> Improving, 4 months with my  being ill (Pneumonia, bronchitis, sepsis etc,multiple stays in hospital) Due  to go back to work next week  on phased return
<DJones> with my wife
<DJones> But seems good now
<daftykins> oh that sounds horrible, glad you've made it through!
<penguin42> DJones: Oh, fun
<DJones> Yeah, getting over it now
<daftykins> i've been meaning to get into more exercise so i can try and get some fitness back, slightest bit of rain and i wimp out though ;)
<daftykins> up to London on Tuesday too, gotta attend a clients BT engineer phone line install
<zmoylan-pi> up to the big smoke... :-)
<daftykins> yip!
<daftykins> Â£180 return on flights
<penguin42> daftykins: And what is the chance the engineer will show up ?
<daftykins> i've no experience of these things on the mainland as it goes, since we don't have BT :D
<zmoylan-pi> daftykins will be there, he's an engineer... :-)
<daftykins> just a nice big afternoon range appointment time for Wednesday the 4th, but i'll be there 'til Friday so who knows
<daftykins> yeah i'll ask the apartments caretaker to let me into the basement and hook it up for us :D
<daftykins> as it is i'm going over to terminate all the apartments network points to the patch panel and put all the gadgets in (bar the TVs) so should be fun
<zmoylan-pi> for some reason young indiana jones tv show is popping up in my brain were he has to receive a very important phone call... :-)
<daftykins> sounds like my trip preparation should be watching that!
<zmoylan-pi> i remember it after only seeing it once many moons ago... http://indianajones.wikia.com/wiki/Prague,_August_1917
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-31
<avis-> double spoofing the bluff
<avis-> sorry
<knight0rk> good morning interpeepz
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<diddledan> if someone performs a character role in the theatre as a ghost, but does it from the back of the auditorium, does that make it spooky acting at a distance? #quantumtheory
<DJones> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....Microsoft..........breaking grub with windows updates
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-01
<SuperMatt> new laptop + 18.04 = bliss
<knight0rk> hey SuperMatt
<knight0rk> you running the beta ,
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knight0rk> hey brobostigon good morning
<brobostigon> morning knight0rk
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<knight0rk> hey zmoylan-pi
<knight0rk> playing around with a Zoryn VM , gotta say: Not too shabby a distro
<knight0rk> feels faster then Ubuntu for some reason
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.heavens-above.com/GroundTrack.aspx
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I've been following http://www.satflare.com/track.asp?q=37820#TOP
<diddledan> happy mailman day
<brobostigon> that was odd, for some magical reason my user was taken out of the sudo group, odd.
<penguin42> obviously not trustworthy
<zmoylan-pi> maybe you're going to fire yourself? :-P
<brobostigon> hmmm
<zmoylan-pi> remember to call security to escort you out of the building... :-)
<brobostigon> lol, :)
<brobostigon> was enough to put right anyway, rebooted into recovery mode, add myself again to said group, reboot, could use sudo again. :)
<brobostigon> easy enough*
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> a rainy bank holiday weekend surprise!
<zmoylan-pi> the diy store has a special on bbqs?
<penguin42> daftykins: I'd mind less if it was warm rain
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> you can't have a bank holiday weekend without rain... how else are you goning to make people be cold and miserable when stuck in traffic? :-)
<SuperMatt> hey #ubuntu-uk, u up?
<daftykins> there's life, but not as we know it
 * penguin42 yaaawnnns at SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> hey hey
<SuperMatt> I just had to sign in to my irssi session because I'm loving my new laptop
<zmoylan-pi> just because it's a bank holiday on a holy chocolate holiday doesn't mean we have enough of a life to be away from our keyboards... :-)
<SuperMatt> Dell Inspiron 5570
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Nice
<SuperMatt> Only Â£600 from currys
<SuperMatt> I think I got a bargain
<SuperMatt> I just hope it doesn't massively drop in price in the next couple of weeks
<penguin42> the website says 579.99 :-)
<SuperMatt> dammit!
<SuperMatt> really?
<daftykins> xD
<penguin42> SuperMatt: https://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/dell-inspiron-15-5570-15-6-laptop-black-10169763-pdt.html
<SuperMatt> oh, I got the one with the ssd
<SuperMatt> That's why it's more
<penguin42> ah
<daftykins> coffee lake i5, neat
<daftykins> now to update the BIOS? :)
<penguin42> daftykins: You put the cup under the right USB port and press open
<daftykins> :D
<SuperMatt> daftykins: that's a good idea
<SuperMatt> I should do that
<SuperMatt> Here's my completely non-riced desktop: https://imgur.com/e0oLFI3
<penguin42> enjoy
<lopta> I'm downloading me some Xubuntu.
<lopta> brb, the dishwasher's done.
<daftykins> yes, use all the plates!
<penguin42> I don't think we normally wash the CDs before installation
<penguin42> but I guess it's one way of doing a clean install
<daftykins> :D
<lopta> :-D
