#edubuntu 2005-12-05
* mhz printing
* mhz printing
* mhz printing
<mhz> re
<mhz> ogra: so, jdub told me he was talking to you about "my case". any news?
<ogra> not really.... i was in the TB meeting
<ogra> ping him again... 
<ogra> he should still be on
<mhz> oh
<mhz> *sighs8
<mhz> paolob: welcome / bienvenido
<paolob> mhz: ciao hola hi
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> how long have you been using edubuntu?
<paolob> Hi guys! I have a problem with dhcp. I have 40 clients. The first time I run edubuntu all is well. However, after a few server reboot, When the clients try to connect to the dhcp server, a messagge "no IP address" appears, and in syslog there is a corresponding "no free leases". It seems like all the dhcp leases are occupied, but really there are not clients connected. What's the hell is this strange thing?
<paolob> mhz: I'm at my first edubuntu experience
<paolob> mhz: before I installed a 12 clients ltsp system with a debian testing server
<mhz> paolob: what dhcpd.conf file are you editing?
<mhz> in which /dir, i mean
<paolob> mhz: I didn't edit any dhcpd.conf file
<mhz> oh
<ogra> paolob, see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<mhz> are you sure the settings in dhcpd.conf correspond to the settings you need for your network?
* mhz is taking daughter to bed and be back
<ogra> btw, 40 clients require a HUGE server
<mhz> indeed
<ogra> 128 MB per lient is the default ...
<ogra> plus ~256MB for the server itself
<paolob> ogra: till now I have no problem with 2GB ram
<ogra> with the default desktop ? 
<ogra> gnome and KDE setups always require values along this line ...
<ogra> did you ever run all 40 clients at the same time ?
<paolob> ogra: well I could get the graphic login for all, and entered 3 or 4 client. I could see that if the same program is used in all the clients, running another instance of it in another client doesn't affect memory usage
<ogra> yes, they share memory ... but 40 is a huge amount
<ogra> the biggest setups i've seen so far with 2GB were 25 clients ...
<paolob> ogra: is there any script to autogenerate user accounts in edubuntu. I mean accounts like n1, n2, n3, etc.?
<ogra> where all were running at the same time ...
<ogra> nope
<ogra> this will be there in the overnext release ...
<ogra> next release is mostly polish of breezy
<ogra> i.e. thmeable login .. speedup of the bootprocess, bootsplash for the clients, sound support, some additional gui tools...
<paolob> ogra: but will edubuntu 6.04 correspond to ubuntu 6.04?
<ogra> sure, as edubuntu 5.10 does to ubuntu 5.10
<ogra> edubuntu is developed inside ubuntu.... 
<paolob> ogra: but the "no free leases" thing.... what could it depend on?
<ogra> did you set up the dhcpd.conf as described in the install notes ?
<ogra> this file is not generated by default
<paolob> ogra: now I remember I configured it as in the install notes
<ogra> hmm, with a range that is big enough ? 
<paolob> the range is ok, because the first edubuntu run is ok, and so the 2nd, 3rd, etc. But there comes a moment in which appears the "no free leases" in the dhcp log
<paolob> it seems that dhcp allocates the leases but it doesnt de-allocate...
<ogra> try setting the value for max-lease-time lower in /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> its set to 7200 by default
<ogra> try setting it to 700 or 1000 and do a sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart afterwards
<paolob>  /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf or /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ?
<ogra> the main config in /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf for this
<ogra> if it doesnt work try the ltsp config, but the main one should work
<paolob> The edubuntu install notes speak of configuring the second
<ogra> yes, i know
<mhz> indeed
<ogra> (i wrote them ;) )
<paolob> ogra: felicitaciones!
<mhz> paolob: but your lease issue could be slved by editing the first
<mhz> hehehe
<paolob> mhz: could or must?
<ogra> mhz, i'm not sure it get read at all ...
* mhz wonders how ogra's spanish is
<ogra> so if the first doesnt work, try the second
* paolob possibly he understands it!
<ogra> mhz, not much beyond hola and gracias 
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> ogra: and ubuntuero?
<paolob> ok, entonces no podemos hablar espaol
<mhz> paolob: lamentablemente
<ogra> mhz, thats a designed word... surely i understand it ;)
<mhz> aunque pronto podriamos en #edubuntu-es
<ogra> mhz, for registering channels contact Seveas ...
<paolob> mhz: but there such few active people here... imagine it in a spanish channel!
<ogra> but he is in .nl ... its 3am in europe :)
<Seveas> but still awake :)
<ogra> hehe
<mhz> ogra: okis, and what time is Seveas around (to ping him and not waking hime)
<mhz> Seveas: hey
<Seveas> anyone can register channels, no approval is needed
<mhz> Seveas: i'd like to proceed with #edubuntu-es
<mhz> Seveas: sure, but it is best if we follow some 'conduct' here :)
<mhz> paolob: I know. the isuee, at least in Chile, is that some teachers have complained about all stuff in english
<mhz> and therefore they say "they dont participate much"
<Seveas> mhz, by all means, proceed the way you see fit. No channel registration is 'official' and in fact: the Ubuntu channel group does not even cover #edubuntu* channels :) 
<paolob> but, in the end, that of the "no free leases" is a bug or what is it?
<mhz> Seveas: oooh
<mhz> Seveas: good to know
<mhz> paolob: let's see once you edit any of those files :)
<ogra> paolob, rather a misconfiguration... i have to inspect it if i'm more awake ... havent seen it yet
<Seveas> mhz, but this was a good reminder to sort this out with lilo asap ;)
<paolob> I generated the edubuntu-es channel!
<ogra> heh
<paolob> I think a /join #edubuntu-es is all is needed
<mhz> Seveas: please. I think that, specially now, that we are getting more activity (Marketing team, doc team, evanelisation teams, loco teams, etc.)
<paolob> mhz: ogra: well, I'll do it tomorrow
<mhz> Seveas: it is not bad if there are some minimum guidelines
<Seveas> mhz, working on those :)
<ogra> paolob, if its registered, the channel will be owned by the resistrant, so if you have a troll in there, the channel master can kick him
<ogra> *registrant
<paolob> ogra: ah, ok
<mhz> Seveas: I have finally gotten reply from ubuntu.cl guys but they say they will answer me fully during the week (i made like 7 questions) and that so far, no plans for evangelisation, only the forum.
<Seveas> ogra, in such occurences they can also ask me to let the freenode guarddogs loose on the subversive elements ;)
<ogra> Seveas, cool, good to know ...
<ogra> i'm in the admin list for #ubuntu buthave not even the slightest clue how to kick someone :)
<mhz> as long as we dont bite our own tails :D
<Seveas> ogra, ;)
<mhz> ogra: right click on a user
<ogra> mhz, first i have to get op status ;)
<mhz> Seveas: so, I'll wait for you to register or shall i ?
<mhz> oh
<Seveas> ogra, /msg chanserv op #ubuntu
<mhz> and then /kick the_user
<ogra> hmm, doesnt work here ...
<Seveas> it seems that #edubuntu-es has already been registered by someone
<mhz> .oO(there should be a /slap the_user too) :D
<mhz> really?
<mhz> Seveas: see?
<Seveas> -ChanServ-      Contact: P3L|C4N0, last seen: 4 weeks 1 day (23h 38m 23s) ago
<Seveas> do you know this person?
<ogra> pelicano ?
<Seveas> If not, I'll contact lilo to make you channel contact
<ogra> he's sometimes around here
<Seveas> ah ok
<ogra> but very seldom
<Seveas> then i'd suggest that you try and settle it yourself
<mhz> my only concern is that newcomers tend to think this is "official" and if op has no 'conduct'.. problems will arrive.
<mhz> Seveas: I have seen him around a couple of times but can't remember when
<paolob> guys, one of the 40 clients downloads the vmlinuz and the other file (initrd.img?) very slowly. What could it be due to?
<mhz> or where
<Seveas> I've seen him in #ubuntu a few times
<ogra> paolob, thats a drawback of breezy ... will be improved in dapper...
<mhz> dapper will rock :)
<paolob> while all clients download vmlinuz in 3 seconds, one client lasts about 30 seconds.
<paolob> ogra: explain me
<paolob> the reduced speed is not due to overload on the server
<ogra> hmm
<Seveas> network contention?
<ogra> that rather sounds like a network issue
<Seveas> Flipping bits in the switches?
<Seveas> Solat flares?
<mhz> Seveas: can we wait for him (say 2 days to show up) and if not, could you talk to lilo? Our Chilean plans for EdubuntuChileanTour should start in no longer than 2 weeks
<Seveas> Phase of the moon?
<ogra> gramlins
<ogra> *gremlins
* Seveas is reading BOFH :)
<ogra> is it always the same client ? 
<paolob> a nic issue (but the connection is at 100 Mb/s)? a cable issue?
<paolob> ogra: yes
<mhz> nic
<ogra> then it sounds like NIC or cable
<mhz> paolob: did you swithc cables?
<paolob> mhz: even if the 100 Mb led is on?
<ogra> yup
<paolob> mhz: I'm going to try
<ogra> try chaning the cable from another NIC
<paolob> ogra: ok
<mhz> I had same issue once. then it was cable
<ogra> if its not it, use a NIC from another client ...
<ogra> if that solves it, it was the NIC ...
<Seveas> mhz, I'll contact lilo on friday
<Seveas> just ping me then to remind me ;)
<paolob> Another issue is that a client always get an error while booting the ltsp kernel, and stops booting. Could it be a ram problem or what?
<mhz> .oO(we should have a machine that we use to ping cables, so we can know what segment of the cable is nor working properly) :D
<mhz> paolob: always same client?
<paolob> mhz: yes
<mhz> paolob: do they boot on a set order?
<mhz> or randomly?
<mhz> Seveas: ok, thx
<paolob> they boot all together
<paolob> but the error occurs even if it boots alone
<mhz> oh
<ogra> sounds like a HW issue 
<mhz> paolob: 1st time i hear that
<ogra> if all other work fine ..
<mhz> "the curse of a client"
<paolob> mhz: I saw it various times in installing thes 40 clients
<paolob> Guys, when all is ok I could prepare a testimony of my install
<ogra> cool
<mhz> paolob: please do!
<ogra> that'd very appreciated
<mhz> paolob: you really got me
<ogra> +be
<mhz> paolob: I had heard strange things but that
<paolob> where should I put or send it?
<mhz> wiki it please
<paolob> in ubuntu wiki?
<mhz> the wiki is perfect for that
<ogra> are you subscribed to edubuntu-devel ?
<paolob> no
<ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
<mhz> paolob: when you create an account in LaunchPad, you'll login to any ubuntu wiki
<ogra> but wiki is ok too ...
<mhz> all ubuntu wikis share same /data dir
<mhz> ogra: nothing to do but... do you know of any desktop independant addressbook that imports/exports from/to .vcf ?
<mhz> and let's you share data on network
<ogra> only evolution
<mhz> (ldap, maybe)
<ogra> ldap might wokr too
<mhz> evolution does that indeed
<mhz> but aint that gnome libs dependant?
<ogra> yup...
<mhz> hmm.
* paolob is going to bed
<ogra> thunderbird should do it too
* ogra too
<mhz> thunderbird looks good
<paolob> Well, good night to all of you!
<mhz> paolob: sleep well
<ogra> night as well 
<mhz> paolob: maybe 2morrow that client will work
<paolob> Buenas noches a todos, que sueen con los angelitos!
<mhz> ogra: ok, go to bed, please
<mhz> .oO(ogra needs to be rested to produce good work/ideas
<mhz> ogra: BTW, meeting tomorrow?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> sure
<mhz> i didnt see it in topic
<ogra> its in the topic of #ubuntu-meeting 
<ogra> abd on the fridge
<ogra> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<ogra> *snd
<ogra> grrt
<spacey> 30 Nov 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<ogra> *and
<spacey> hmm
<spacey> thats 13 CET?
<ogra> yup
<spacey> i can do that
<ogra> spacey, sorry, didnt upload the content filter stuff yet
<spacey> ogra, take your time
<spacey> i'm quite busy
<ogra> the TB meeting took nearly 3h (unplanned)
<spacey> thats quite long
<ogra> yup
<spacey> some difficult points?
<ogra> hide admin tools
<ogra> and two big opinions
<spacey> i remember that spec from ubz
<ogra> one party that wanted to solve it by patching sudo ...
<ogra> and one (the one i am in) that wants to solve GUI tasks in the GUI... not in an admin tool
<spacey> yeah latter one sounds much better
<spacey> patching sudo bleh
<ogra> yup
<ogra> it already was done ... pitti reverted it after the meeting
<spacey> not even sure how that would work out, but it must be dirty
<spacey> :P
<ogra> not really, but its evil on server installs ...
<spacey> ah
<ogra> and we wont ship two sudos
<mhz> ogra: please do not hide it from sudo
<ogra> being able to test the users rights with sudo -t without being logged is not nice
<mhz> ubuntu is know for usinf sudo
<mhz> using
<spacey> ah
<ogra> mhz, the thing is that users who are no admins see all admin tools ... we want to avoind that for dapper
<mhz> hmmmmmmmmmm
<spacey> wasn't it something like that switch was already in upstream?
<spacey> *digs his memory*
<mhz> ogra: they can be warned
<ogra> so students only have apps in their menu in edubuntu ;)
<ogra> but no admin tools
<mhz> ogra: GUI hidding is fine, very fine
<ogra> yup
<mhz> but not from command line I meant
<ogra> gnome-menu shall handle it ... 
<mhz> i thought you meant from command line
<spacey> ogra, different from now?
<ogra> i think xfce uses gnome-menu too
<spacey> since its already in breezy but not used
<ogra> spacey, sure ... currently a non privileged user sees sll admin tools
<spacey> ogra, yeah but if you add thingy to .desktop file it dissapears
<ogra> and gksudo just dies silently if he has no rights
<ogra> not yet
<spacey> it does
<ogra> the patch is missing ...
<ogra> really ? 
<spacey> i'm pretty sure the patch was in
<spacey> seb even showed me
<spacey> its just not used
<ogra> ut the patch for checking the admin group isnt
<spacey> because none of the desktop files include that line
<ogra> they will
<mhz> oh
<ogra> but you also need to check the users rights ...
<ogra> that part was missing ...
<mhz> .oO(another reason why /me is so happy with simpler desktops) :)
<spacey> i think the thing was that it checks on group now but that its not universal enough
<ogra> and pitti wanted to solve it through calling sudo -t <desktop file> for every entry
<spacey> but its late now, so might recall badly
<spacey> ogra, yeah
<mhz> ogra: wouldn't that pitti solution be too expensive?
<ogra> which produces a mail to root for every .deskop file on every login ...
<spacey> ogra, hehe, small detail :)
<ogra> *g*
<spacey> and thats why sudo had to be patched?
<spacey> i assume
<ogra> nope.... that already was the patch :p
<spacey> oh
<ogra> he reverted the behavior
<ogra> now -t doesnt exist anymore
<spacey> k:)
<ogra> and the check for the admin group will be used ...
<ogra> which breaks on systems that were upgraded from warty
<spacey> which doesn't really matter :P
<ogra> i.e. it doesnt hide the entrys
<ogra> yup
<spacey> since warty doesn't have an admin group
<spacey> iirc
<ogra> exactly
<ogra> and it doesnt get added on upgrades
<ogra> but thatmeans it simply wont change for these users :)
<ogra> but no new breakage is introduced ... so its way safer
<spacey> yup
<mhz> ogra: we'd need a 'teacher' group in 6.04 so teachers can handle users -> menus based on the subject his teaching
<ogra> nope ... we'll have configurable menu profiles in 6.10 .... :)
<spacey> oh btw you don't need to hurry with that willow stuff, i'll install and try it out end of this week and see (willow itself), because our customer caught little kids surfing for porn. so i see how it works. and then next week look into your stuff. 
<spacey> sabayon?:)
<mhz> ogra: cooler
<ogra> spacey, yes, i wanted tobase i on sabayon ... but that might not even be necessary
<ogra> *it
<spacey> but sabayon might be nice anyway
<spacey> quite nice actually
<ogra> i'm in contact with the menu editor author ... i'm poking him since a while to add profile support
<spacey> nice
<ogra> so we might get it cheaper :)
<spacey> yeah that would be nice
<mhz> oops, so admins will have more work on school needs
<ogra> i'm still not sure if the xnest issue is solvable
<ogra> mhz, nope, less work
<spacey> ogra, we can ask sabayon mailinglist
<ogra> you have a menu predefined for every class you have ...
<mhz> ogra: nope, more work taking care of each teacher needs for students in lab
<spacey> i can ask if you want, subscribed anyway
<ogra> spacey, i guess so ... but its a technical issue
<ogra> spacey, yes, do it :) 
<spacey> i think the sabayon list is quite technical?:)
<mhz> ogra: admins today are not touching menus based on profiles :)
<ogra> but i think its a limitation of ssh forwarding we cant work around
<spacey> ogra, ah could be
<spacey> anyway i'll throw it at them later this week.
<ogra> mhz, they'll have a little gui that says "math", biology", "english" ...
<spacey> first get my thin client working :o)
<ogra> mhz, based on your work ;)
<mhz> ogra: yup, I mean they will have one more task. today they dont care about profiles :)
<ogra> mhz, they only need to select the class 
<mhz> ogra: cool
<ogra> then we could also bind it to the teacher that is logged in ... ;)
<ogra> so they dont need to select
<mhz> ogra: my concern there, is at least in Chile, I'll only have 2 weeks to evangelise teachers
<mhz> ogra: good
<ogra> i'm planning some good gui tools for dapper+1 
<spacey> ogra, hmm that would limit it heavily on classroom use i think
<spacey> for example we use edubuntu school wide (secretly ;)).
<mhz> ogra: so I hope I can motivate enough teachers to help on the curriculum crossing thing
<ogra> we'll have 3 months development time then and the base system should be fine enough that there gets no time drawn in ...
<mhz> ogra: today I usually use update-menu command. Will that interfere with your menu setting plans?
<ogra> spacey, its still just a slight idea of mine that needs to get worked out right ...
<spacey> k :)
<ogra> we can design it on schooll level ;)
<spacey> just pointing out :)
<spacey> don't want to make it too complex
<mhz> ehhhehe
<mhz> already is
<mhz> :)
<spacey> not too much
<ogra> mhz, our menu system will be based on .desktop file selections ... i think update-menus is working with them too
<spacey> mhz, whats complex? :P
<ogra> so it should work in any environment followint the freedesktop specs
<mhz> spacey: I am no coder, so I was thinking from teacher/admin POV. Each country has differences on curriculum
<mhz> each curriculum, diff menus
<ogra> spacey, my idea is only a frontend solution ... if the backend is a ldap server or a simple textfile wont matter then ;)
<ogra> so you can use it in a classroom as well as in a school
<ogra> lets see ... its still far future :)
<ogra> GF calls ... i have to go to bed ;)
<ogra> nearly 4am again :)
<ogra> night all
<mhz> nite
<mhz> spacey: you work in a school?
<spacey> mhz, no
<mhz> ok
<spacey> but
<spacey> i have my own business with a friend of mine. and one of our customers is a primary school, were we take care of the IT stuff
<spacey> and we are migrating them from windows to edubuntu
<spacey> a bit complex because its a mixed enviroment
<mhz> ooops
<mhz> mixed env. are always a pain in the back
<spacey> but we worked it out pretty well, users have the same data if they log in on windows or with edubuntu thin client
<mhz> smart
* mhz has no idea about M$ stuff
<spacey> but migrating the profiles from w2k ADS to Samba is a bit tricky
<spacey> to say the least :)
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> what is w2k ADS?
<spacey> active directory service
<spacey> its nasty
<mhz> sounds like it
<spacey> its ldap with nasty stuff on top
<mhz> passwords?
<spacey> and if you touch anything it breaks ;o
<mhz> hehehLOL
<spacey> and then your screwed
<mhz> hehehLOL
<mhz> hehehLOL
<mhz> it does remind me why I run away from M$
<spacey> good for you :)
<spacey> and we are helping people to run away
<spacey> at least thats our goal :)
<spacey> we just started
<mhz> i had M$ in my 1st pc (1 year of problems only, then I got an iBook (lovely) and then only linux on it
<spacey> nice
<mhz> spacey: may the patience be with you and your friend. M$ is hard to kill
<spacey> ^_^
<spacey> ubuntu is to our aid :D
<mhz> BTW, have you seen this distro called "Kill Bill"?
<spacey> lol no
<mhz> it's pretty cool!
<mhz> knopix based
<spacey> i don't like knoppix :P
<mhz> and of course... it is inspired in both Kill bill gatez and the movie
<mhz> i like Debian from scratch or Ubuntu
<spacey> i like ubuntu :)
<mhz> however, i use ubuntu with wmaker or fluxbox
<mhz> i'd love to have install cd's with desktop independancies
<mhz> 'server' is too little
<mhz> and 'enter' is too mcuh
<mhz> much
<mhz> :)
<mhz> spacey: anyways, the good thing about Kill Bill is that it is already set to run .EXE programs even from LiveCD !!
<spacey> hmm
<spacey> anyway
<spacey> i'm going to sleep
<spacey> its already 4:00 at night here
<spacey> and have to be up for the meeting:P
<mhz> sure
<mhz> c ya in a couple of hours
<spacey> goodnight
<mhz> nite
<spacey> goodmorning for you
<spacey> i guess
<spacey> ;)
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> 23:50\
<spacey> oh only that little differance
<mhz> yup
<spacey> so meeting is really early for you
<mhz> indeed
<spacey> good luck for you
<spacey> :)
<mhz> sleep well
<spacey> and goodnight
* mhz gets back to SVGing
* mhz goes to bed
<JaneW> ogra: does edubuntu want to join schoolforge?
<ajmitch__> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hi ajmitch__ 
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:JaneW] :  The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | NEXT MEETING:  Nov 30 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes |
<jsgotangco> hey JaneW
<jsgotangco> got a minute?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: hi, sure
* JaneW has just created the following page http://wiki.edubuntu.org/GettingEdubuntu , please add to it... we get asked this a lot...
<spacey> morning
<spacey> JaneW, that local support suppose to be community or also commercial? :o
<spacey> ok title says it
<spacey> anyway i'll guess i'll add myself. 
<spacey> don't think getting a cd is a problem for dutch people
<spacey> enough broadband here
<spacey> don't think you can find a school without adsl
<jsgotangco> brb
<spacey> JaneW, is there an agenda for the meeting?
<jsgotangco> the pages are locked?
<JaneW> I am editting
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> i'll catch up on meeting then
<jsgotangco> still need to buy more stuff and pack
<spacey> JaneW, ;( agenda?
<JaneW> same as every week
<JaneW> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords
<JaneW> -> lunch
<spacey> *bookmark*
<JaneW> **Reminder** +- 20 Minutes to Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
<JaneW> **Reminder** +- 5 Minutes to Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> why did ogra quit 8 mins before the meeting?
<mhz> hi
<highvoltage> hi mhz 
<mhz> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> Yagisan: when was your son born?
<mhz> kjcole: indeed.
<mhz> highvoltage: kjcole: I have been more busy with EdubuntuChileanTour (we're missing simple stuff to kick off)
* kjcole is off to get food and head into the office.  May see you back here in a bit...
<mhz> however, as soon as I can finish/start that, i'll be on edubuntu docing
<kjcole> Ta-ta all
<mhz> bye
<mhz> highvoltage: i apologyze if i'm too fan of moin. It's just that I know it is possible to do much stuff (tweaking, yes i agree it's time consuming) I have not done with other CMS's
<mhz> highvoltage: ogra: you work on artwork, right?
<jsgotangco> mhz: moin is good but we can't use it for everything really
<Yagisan> highvoltage: Sorry was putting the kids to bed. My son was born on the 18th of november
<jsgotangco> No. 1 it can't play games
<jsgotangco> :P
<mhz> jsgotangco: i know, not now. but we could with some tweaks and joint deveopment with Moin gang
<jsgotangco> mhz: i'd love to do that
<Yagisan> highvoltage: didn't know about the lysp group - checking it out now
<mhz> Moin development gang are very open to improvements
<Yagisan> s/lysp/ltsp
<ogra> mhz, i do the packaging
<highvoltage> mhz: no need to apologize. moin is a good system. we'll probably end up using it two years from now anyway.
* mhz was once trying to implement Moin + Mail handling :)
<highvoltage> mhz: ogra did it all for 5.10, we need more artwork
<mhz> highvoltage: hehe. I will try Drupal and comit to use it hard, on daily basis.
<mhz> highvoltage: I have started little by little
<ogra> we'll have a hired person as i heard who will make professional artwork for ed/k/ubuntu
<mhz> highvoltage: I am currently working on a wallpaper and GDM theme (got some questions on the latter)
<ogra> mark wants to hire omeone in london ...
<jsgotangco> do we have people committing to certain dapper edubuntu tartgetrs?
<ogra> who works fulltime in the office to be available
<mhz> jsgotangco: hehe, i even used Moin for CRM (bug tracking, Addressbook, Calendar, Todo, etc)
<highvoltage> ogra: we must still have a artwork community, who should maintain a user-committed base
<highvoltage> (if that makes any sense)
<jsgotangco> mhz: you scare me dude
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> but since we want to have 3 choices for the artwork, this covers only one set
<highvoltage> mhz: https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-artwork and http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuArtwork
<jsgotangco> mhz: although for the CD-Orchard, we will be using Moin
<ogra> i havent heard back if this person will do more than one set for us
<mhz> ogra: oh, good to know that. Then I'd focus on chilean edubuntu needs?
<mhz> jsgotangco: hehehe, Moin invasion
<ogra> mhz, if you like :)
<highvoltage> ogra: what do you mean, will the profesional person probably only cover one of the three artwork options?
<ogra> mhz, you could also do more general artwork for inclusion in the package ... since we wont change the app selection much, we should have some spare space this time
<mhz> highvoltage: ogra: how soon could we know about whihc option he'll cover? I got a meeting with Pablo's team this week
<ogra> highvoltage, this person might only make one artwork  set for every ubuntu flavour
<highvoltage> mhz: i don't know. ogra's on the inside, i think we can rely on him for feedback.
<mhz> yup, i roger that
<ogra> i asked for clearification, but didnt hear back yet
<Yagisan> highvoltage: OK - I clicked join team for ltspubuntu - we'll see what happens next
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra> Yagisan, note that this team is driven by ltsp.org guys ...
<mhz> highvoltage: i have joined the 2 teams (doc and web). Any docs already?
<Yagisan> ogra: I need to dist-upgrade my clients to dapper for bootchart ?
<ogra> i dont even know who's the owner
<ogra> Yagisan, i think so, yes
<highvoltage> mhz: there's the edubuntu cookbook, it's currently on the moin site
<mhz> highvoltage: ohhh, that!
<highvoltage> but it's far from complete at this stage
<highvoltage> ogra: owner of?
<ogra> the ltsp team
<Yagisan> ogra: two members are you ubuntu guys - you, and IIRC higvoltage
<highvoltage> mhz: and we'll have some new guides soon that will need some work.
<ogra> Yagisan, yes... 
<ogra> i thought it would make sense if i'm in there :p
<highvoltage> ogra: one of the guys from ltsp.org, afaik. i think you said you met him in canada?
<mhz> highvoltage: ok. is that via ML ?
<ogra> highvoltage, yes, but i dont know which of them created this group...
<mhz> hehehehe
<ogra> it suddenly appeared and i'm bad at names
<mhz> we need photos!
<highvoltage> mhz: is what via ML?
<mhz> highvoltage: edubuntu doc?
<highvoltage> hackergotchis!
<mhz> highvoltage: edubuntu doc is via bzr, ML or Moin?
<highvoltage> mhz: afaik it's only on Moin.
<mhz> highvoltage: indeed, I didn;t have time to make one so I ploaded my photo
<highvoltage> that will probably be moved to drupal too, we'll have to see which works best.
<mhz> highvoltage: okis, so i'll make sure they are categorized and then subscribe myelf
<highvoltage> excellent.
<mhz> highvoltage: have you tried Trac? (me doesn't remember)
* Yagisan plans to do some work with qemu + ltsp soonish, I want full multiarch if possible
<jsgotangco> Trac is awesome
<Yagisan> so I thought it would be a good idea to join the team
<mhz> highvoltage: ogra: my current wallpaper test and theme (first time I do this stuff) are having problems (silly ones, I guess). Could you help me?
<mhz> Yagisan: any news on in-laws?
<highvoltage> mhz: fire away!
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuChileArtwork
<mhz> wallpaper/ many schools have 800x600 monitors
<mhz> wp/ so, I did it via SVG (inkscape) and then exported to PNG and from GIMP to JPG :D
<highvoltage> ubuntu stretches the wallpaper, no matter what the size is, doesn't it?
<Yagisan> mhz: No, I haven't spoken to them since I found out my mother-in-law has cancer. I'm still trying to make 1000 paper cranes for her
<mhz> wp/ end up looking kind of ugly
<jsgotangco> why not just use SVG that way it won't pixelate
<jsgotangco> just do some fancy coloring stuff with vectors
<mhz> Yagisan: again, i can only hope she'll win
<jsgotangco> even the logo can be vectored easily
* highvoltage needs to leave now
<Yagisan> mhz: me too.
<mhz> jsgotangco: no idea.  I'm just following what others have done
<highvoltage> cheers edubuntero's!
<Yagisan> bye highvoltage 
<pirast> cheers
<mhz> jsgotangco: I'd love SVG wallpapers and GDM themes only
* Yagisan likes pain. I'm attempting to backport gmailfs and dependencies from dapper and sid
<mhz> hehehehhe
<mhz> Yagisan: did you see the Debian - Ubuntu wallpaper I found ?
<Yagisan> it's *never* worked in ubuntu
<Yagisan> mhz: no
<mhz> like ?
<Yagisan> mhz: where is it ?
<pirast> edubuntu will be used everywhere when the next version is released :-) The school where I am tutored only has problems with the Win 2003 server.. It's really funny, sry for ot :-)
<jsgotangco> really?
<mhz> pirast: educool!
* jsgotangco thinks Windows Server 2003 is pretty good
<jsgotangco> *but not great*
<jsgotangco> heheh
* mhz rather ommits his opinion on non-freedom OS
<jsgotangco> bleah
<jsgotangco> i was a windows sysad for 5 years :P
<mhz> jsgotangco: that's why !
<Yagisan> mhz: It's a good idea to keep an eye on the competition
<jsgotangco> i'm not going to say something against a product that fed me and my family :P
<pirast> :-) 80% of the clients take 15 minutes to log in..
<mhz> Yagisan: competition will still fail if they do not understand QoS
<mhz> pirast: could you wiki your experience as a case of study (how edubuntu could help you)
<jsgotangco> pirast: that looks like a network and a directory issue
<Yagisan> mhz: yeah, but that competition has an ad on TV every 30 minutes for that family of products. We don't
<pirast> yes,  it is.. but the teacher changes the settings always..
<pirast> lol
<mhz> Yagisan: indeed. We will (if we need it)
<jsgotangco> tv ads?
<jsgotangco> wow
<mhz> Yagisan: re TV about Linux... the reporter promised me to provide a .MPG file of the TV note they made on Linux and Ubuntu
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: yep - MS is running an ad campaign that basically says software only works on Windows, and if you want your kids to succeed, they need Windows
<ogra> mhz, our required defaultsize for wallpapers is 1600x1200 ... it gets automatically scaled to the desktop size then...
<pirast> mhz: Do you mean that I should create an entry how the school where I study would like to use Edubuntu?
<Yagisan> ogra: you *could* save memory by not using a wallpaper
<ogra> sure
<mhz> ogra: ohhhh
<ogra> we'll probably do that for the higher grade classes
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: Intel does that a lot lately....
<mhz> pirast: yup. Current case v/s how edubuntu would be better
<ogra> but the child vrsion should be as coulorful as possible :)
<pirast> mhz: ok, i will try ;-)
<mhz> pirast: thx very much
<pirast> mhz, np
<mhz> Yagisan: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez/ScrapBook/DebianUbuntuWallpaper
<ogra> mhz, looking for controversial discussions with debian *G* ?
<mhz> hehehehe
<pirast> ogra: do you block priv messages? :-)
<mhz> pirast: nope, he doesnt. but you gotta be registered
<pirast> oh...
<pirast> okay lol :-)
<ogra> pirast, as mhz said
<ogra> hmm
<Yagisan> mhz: that won't make some debian devs happy
<mhz> why not?
<pirast> re
<mhz> Debian is the root. Ubuntu is a son
<jsgotangco> and Edubuntu is the...bastard?
<ogra> mhz, some see that different
<Yagisan> mhz: they seem somewhat thin skinned on debian-devel. That swirl IIRC is actually trademarked
<mhz> pirast: by registered = in irc.freenode i meant
<pirast> i know ;-)
<pirast> i am now
<mhz> ok
<Yagisan> mhz: and they need to protect their trademarks, or they lose them
<mhz> Yagisan: oh
<ogra> mhz, we're already chatting in our secret corner :=)
<mhz> and if it included the word debian?
<mhz> hehehe
<Yagisan> mhz: IIRC if it is used in a descriptive sense it is fine, but if used to misrepresent it as official Debian art, no. Debian is also a trademark
<ogra> free for noncommercial use though
* Yagisan learnt a lot about trademarks recently
<mhz> Yagisan: lol
<mhz> the -doc list?
<ogra> mhz, some DDs see ubuntu as stealing from debian ...
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> we take all the credit they say
<ogra> so you'll have to cope with them ;)
<mhz> ogra: i must say I understand them
<Yagisan> mhz: was the -doc list directed at me ?
<mhz> we should be 'Dubuntu'
<mhz> :)
* Yagisan likes ubuntu, as I found it hard to get into debian society
<mhz> Yagisan: yup
<mhz> Yagisan: that too.
<jsgotangco> ian murdoch for example...
<Yagisan> mhz: no, IP Australia - I was looking up possible trademarks and logos for my business
<mhz> ogra: any problems with EdubuntuChile logo?
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: he left debian to make his own fork - it looks like pot - kettle - black to me
<ogra> mhz, nope, why should i
<mhz> Yagisan: oh. In Chile, president candidates are for intelectual property and patents 
<mhz> ogra: just asking, as we are aplanning to make it clear, we are from Chile and we speak chilean :)
<mhz> Yagisan: lol
<mhz> Yagisan: user linux?
<Yagisan> mhz: progeny ? IIRC
<jsgotangco> progeny
<jsgotangco> user linux is by bruce perens
<mhz> yup, miscinfused
<Yagisan> Anyone here actually use gmailfs ?
* mhz was about to... but he realized didn't need it
<Yagisan> mhz: I plain to layer encfs on it, and use it for offsite backups. Its 2669MB per account
<mhz> hmmmmmmmmm
<Yagisan> mhz: I figure I can keep sending gmail invites to myself when I need another 2669MB :)
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> gmail invasion
<mhz> Yagisan: is it true gmail keeps a DB of your emails?
<mhz> (i mean, I guess they do because they cross the content with ad)
<mhz> will they use a kind of DB for gmailfs?
<Yagisan> mhz: I don't know. They have a box scan the email for keywords, but if like me you encrypt most email, you just get ads for pgp
<Yagisan> mhz: gmailfs by itself is unencrypted - they treat it like a normal email
<Yagisan> mhz - thats why I will put encfs on top, to encrypt the files
* Yagisan finished building the backports - now to test it works
<mhz> ok
<ogra> Yagisan, note that bootchart is a java app
<Yagisan> ogra: does it work with gcj ?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> the initramfs part are only some cripts... the java part is for making the actual chart from it post boot
<ogra> but you'll notice the difference... you have to wait a while until its finished, before the login prompt appears
<Yagisan> ogra: all I need to do is dist-upgrade and then install bootchart ?
<ogra> should work, yes
<ogra> if it doesnt, dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r` that works fo sure
* Yagisan sighs. python-fuse requires python < 2.4
<ogra> file a bug ;)
<Yagisan> ogra: I ah, just "backported" that from sid. I adjust the deps and see if it "just works"
<ogra> err
<ogra> it wont
<ogra> debian doesnt use initramfs afaik
<ogra> who is maintainer of it in debian ? 
<Yagisan> ogra: Sebastian Delafond
<ogra> then you are playing roulette :)
<ogra> good luck
<pirast> mhz: http://gamesplace.info/ubuntu/currentcase-win-dbg.png
<pirast> mhz: i know that im not good at art
<Yagisan> ogra: heh - I had to get current fuse from dapper, and gmailfs, and python-libgmail from sid
<ogra> oh, you talk about fuse 
<ogra> i thought bootchart
<mhz_house> pirast: I liked the 'concept' very much
<Yagisan> ogra: python-fuse was 2.2 in dapper, so I grabbed 2.4 from sid
<pirast> yes id like it in edubuntu too...
<ogra> pirast, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiring
* mhz_house BBS
<ogra> we'll use fuse extensively for ltspfs
<ogra> (local device support)
<pirast> ogra: i know that they are similar, but the real important thing is that the user data is stored centrally and every student has an own account... I think edubuntu breezy doesn't do it..
<ogra> sure it does
<pirast> it does?
<Yagisan> ogra: cool. IIRC kernel 2.6.15 has fuse in mainline now
<pirast> grat :-)
<ogra> thats the main concept :)
<pirast> ok, i have not enough hardware at home to try it :-)
<ogra> Yagisan, yup and dapper has 2.6.15
<pirast> i wanted to but i missed one ethernet card, it is at my friends house who uses ubuntu too :-)
<ogra> as well as ltspfs and ltspfsd
<ogra> pirast, i'll have my thin client with me in essen on saturday 
<pirast> ok, nice
<ogra> and juliux has a server for us to present it ...
<pirast> :-)
<DaSkreech> Quick Question :)
<ogra> shoot
<pirast> it will be really funny on saturday and sunday, i am really glad that i live in essen :-)
<ogra> i'll only be there on sat.
<DaSkreech> Can I have one login go into a Edubuntu "profile" and another into Ubuntu?
<pirast> ok..
<pirast> i couldnt believe my eyes when i saw that there are linuxdays :-)
<ogra> DaSkreech, nope ...
<pirast> ogra: Furthermore it would be great to have an user import function.. In our windows case the teacher copied all the user data from an excel table into the windows add user dialog.. That was funny
<ogra> DaSkreech, the edu apps will show up in the ubuntu menu
<DaSkreech> So either the entire computer is Edubuntu or it's Ubuntu?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> you'd have to edit the users settings 
<DaSkreech> ogra: So I could in theory hand tune a login to edubuntu?
<ogra> you could try sabayon to create profiles though
<DaSkreech> Hmm
<pirast> ogra: an import tool that imports the data from an odt / an excel table would be great..
<ogra> the other way around ....
<pirast> lol cunfusing 
<ogra> install edubuntu-desktop and tune t down to ubuntu ...
<ogra> edubuntu sits on top of ubuntu ...
* DaSkreech ponders
<ogra> so disabling parts will get you back to a ubuntu setup
<ogra> try sabayon, it should work for you
<DaSkreech> I have a friend who's setting up a computer for his family
<DaSkreech> He's ubuntuized 
<DaSkreech> Or at least is in the process
<ogra> great :)
<DaSkreech> He has a young friend who comes over often enough that he gets his own login on the computer
<DaSkreech> I just thought it would be great if he could get a Edubuntu desktop when he logged in
<ogra> thats fine ...
<ogra> you'll have to reset the GDM theme and the bootsplash... these are systemwide ... but the rest should be manageable very easily by sabayon
<juliux> re
<juliux> someone pinged me who?
<DaSkreech> Well the GDM theme and bootsplash can stay since the majority of users are actually Ubuntu and at least one would be offended by being put onto a "childs" computer
<Yagisan> ouch - someone has thin skin
<ogra> juliux, i just said you have a demo server in essen ...
<juliux> ogra, ah ok
<ogra> juliux, pirast will be there ...
<juliux> ogra, nice
<juliux> ogra, we also have now a screen for the projector
<ogra> good
<Yagisan> ogra: assuming my backports are successful, who do I ask to sync them from debian, so they still work in dapper ?
<ogra> if they are in universe, ask in #ubuntu-motu
<ogra> for main ask me :)
<Yagisan> ogra: ok. If it works, I'll hassle some poor motu for a sync
<ogra> fine
<ogra> might be on the sync list anyway 
<ogra> there are still ~200 packages to merge/sync for motu
<Yagisan> ogra: really ? some of those packages haven't been updated since warty
<ogra> fuse might not have been in focus :)
<Yagisan> ogra: well, obviously nobody tried it. Maybe they need gmail accounts to give them motivation
<ogra> heh, i really doubt that :)
* ogra has marked gmail invitations as spam long ago
<crimsun> hmm...fuse?
<crimsun> is something broken in fuse?
<ogra> yup
<DaSkreech> Put a filter on them and send them to me :)
<ogra> ask Yagisan he's just playing with it
<ogra> DaSkreech, it stopped at some point ...
<Yagisan> crimsun: for a looong time now - gmailfs hasn't worked
<ogra> but Yagisan it the gmail advertiser here :)
<crimsun> even in dapper?
<Yagisan> crimsun: yes, even in dapper
<crimsun> well I need to upload fuse 2.4.2 first#
<Yagisan> crimsun: I'm backporting parts from dapper and sid
<ogra> Yagisan, where are the bugs you filed about that ? :P
<Yagisan> ogra: others filed bugs in malone
<crimsun> I found exactly one about gmailfs in malone
<ogra> crimsun, oh, yould you ping me if you do that ? i need to transition ltspfs then
<Yagisan> crimsun: fuse is ok in dapper as far as I can tell, you need gmailfs, python-fuse, python-libgmail from sid
<Yagisan> crimsun: and forum complaints
<ogra> Yagisan, we only count bugs :)
<ogra> Yagisan, make the forum people file them
* Yagisan is installing backports now
<Yagisan> ogra: It should be fixed by a simple sync. Ubuntu's versions are simply too old
<ogra> if ubuntus versions have a -XubuntuX in the verson strimg they might be merges ...
<ogra> which require manual work
<crimsun> please don't request a sync until I finish merging fuse-utils 2.4.2, as it fixes a security issue
<Yagisan> crimsun: well, after I give a test -  I'll let you know if a) it worked, and b) if I think you should sync it.
<Yagisan> brb
<Yagisan>  /dev/fuse             2.7G     0  2.7G   0% /home/jamie/mount/gmailfs
* Yagisan does a little dance
<JaneW> today's meeting notes added - please add or correct as required http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords
<ogra> will do
<jsgotangco> wow the new vmware can actually run ubuntu
<jsgotangco> (it explicitly supports ubuntu now)
<ogra> and edubuntu :P
<jsgotangco> yeah i just tried it on a windows machine
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: the old one also ran it fine
* Yagisan is doing a bigger dance. encfs, on gmailfs :)
<jsgotangco> yeah but seeing Ubuntu along with official support is a different story
<mhz_house> JaneW: I like this:
<mhz_house>     *
<mhz_house>       Technical
<mhz_house>           o
<mhz_house>             Progress over past week
<mhz_house>           o
<mhz_house>             Issues/ Blocks
<mhz_house>           o
<mhz_house>             Planned Activities for coming week
<mhz_house>     *
<mhz_house>       Documentation
<mhz_house>           o
<mhz_house>             Progress over past week
<mhz_house>           o
<mhz_house>             Issues/ Blocks
<mhz_house>           o
<mhz_house>             Planned Activities for coming week
<mhz_house>     *
<mhz_house>       Art Work
<mhz_house>           o
<mhz_house>             Progress over past week
<ogra> mhz_house, stop spamming .... use a pastebin service please
<mhz_house>           o
<mhz_house>             Issues/ Blocks
<mhz_house>           o
<mhz_house>             Planned Activities for coming week
<mhz_house>     *
<mhz_house>       Management and or Community - any further issues that need to be discussed. These may be tabled in advance as required.
<mhz_house> but i feel we dont cover
* JaneW hopes he is not pasting the entire page!
<mhz_house> it
<mhz_house> oops, I aplogize for the pasting
<jsgotangco> spammer!
<mhz_house> I did not mean to spam it, I was actually pasting it for an email :(
<jsgotangco> next time use paste.ubuntulinux.nl
<mhz_house> JaneW: not at all.
<JaneW> heh
<mhz_house> jsgotangco: sure.
<jsgotangco> if mdz was here he would have given you the smackdown heh
<mhz_house> jose__: hola
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] :  The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | NEXT MEETING:  Nov 30 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | for bigger pastes ple
<ogra> grmpf
<mhz_house> jsgotangco: hehehe
<mhz_house> as i said, I was writing an email
<mhz_house> and pasted wrongly
<mhz_house> 10 inches laptop means smaller keyboard
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] :  The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | for bigger pastes ple
<jsgotangco> bleahhh
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] :  The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | please use paste.ubuntulinux.nl for pasting
<ogra> hah
<ogra> sorry for the noise
<mhz_house> hehehe
<ogra> mp1, hey mpt
<mhz_house> ok,
<mhz_house> mail sent to edubuntu-devel
<mhz> Yagisan: have you slept anything? or you changed TZ?
<Yagisan> mhz: To be honest, after my government meeting today, I slept from 3pm to 7pm
<mhz> wow!
<mhz> how did it go?
<Yagisan> mhz: but my son isn't helping with sleeping
<mhz> ehehehe
<mhz> Yagisan: i'm glad to see your prescence here, anyways :)
<Yagisan> mhz: 1 perhaps 2 potential clients, and about 15 possible contacts
<mhz> Yagisan: well, that sounds good
<Yagisan> mhz: A confirmed client would have been better
<mhz> hehehehe, indeed.
<mhz> Yagisan: the good thing is that they saw you.
<mhz> Now in 2 days time, you'll re-contact them
<Yagisan> argh, gmailfs + encfs don't like each other!! .oO(Yagisan's head may explode)
<Yagisan> mhz: yep, and basically say "buy something" :)
<mhz> sec. issues are harder to sell
<Yagisan> mhz: yep, especially to uneducated hicks^W clients that think it is normal for systems to always be infected with viruses and malware
<mhz> hm
* mhz lunch now
<Yagisan> Catch you later mhz
<Yagisan> woo hoo, got encfs + gmailfs loving going on :)
<mhz> pitux: hola, revisa EdubuntuStudyPackages 
<mhz> pitux: me voy a almorzar y BRB
<Yagisan> now to script up a nice backup system
<Yagisan> night all
<Bob332> i just installed on my dell p3 machine, when i boot to edubuntu after the loading screen i get a cursor on the top left corner that just hangs
<ogra> after login ? 
<ogra> or before ? 
<Bob332> before login
<Bob332> ogra, thanks
<ogra> do you already see the login screen ? 
<ogra> (the graphical one)
<Bob332> nope, its right before the login screen
<ogra> hmm ... strange ...
<Bob332> i see the initial splash screen where it loads devices, mounts fs, etc...then it changes to a black screen with a curseor
<Bob332> im in recovery mode now, dont see anything in X11 folder about my default resolution
<ogra> thats edubuntu 5.10 ?
<ogra> or the current daily development version ? 
<Bob332> 5.10
<Bob332> just downloaded and burned
<DaSkreech> No ubotu?
<ogra> nope, what for ?
<ogra> there are enough humans here ... no need for a bot :)
<ogra> Bob332, can you try booting with one of: pci=noacpi, nolapic, noacpi, acpi=off or a combination of them ? 
<Bob332> ok, i just tried bumping down my resolution to 8 by 6, the 1024 may be to high
<Bob332> i have had wierd issues on debian system before and this fixed it
<ogra> (just hit escape on boot and add this to the kernel line in grub, (hit e to edit))
<ogra> we use a very different Xorg than debian ...
<ogra> so it might or might not be it :)
<Bob332> ok, my idea didnt work, the system goes through its whole boot process, all the way to starting portmapper and then changes screens to this black screen with a cursor at the top left
<Bob332> what is acpi?
<ogra> what kind of graphics card is that ? 
<mhz> pitux: ping
<ogra> acpi is power management ... its broken on 30% or more of the hardware out there
<Bob332> in not sure, an older one though
<ogra> the older the HW the more likely its broken
<Bob332> so where do i add that option?
<Bob332> i am in grub now
<Bob332> e to edit the command line?
<ogra> after hittin escape you get a menu ...
<ogra> go to the default line and hit e
<Bob332> right, with all my OS'es
<Bob332> ok, there
<ogra> then go to the kernel line and hit e again ... 
<Bob332> there
<ogra> add pci=noacpi after splash .... 
<ogra> separated with a space 
<ogra> then hit enter and b for boot
<Bob332> ok  thanks, lunch, brb
<ogra> repeaet this with the above options for several boots ... or even combine these options ...
<ogra> i'd got through them one by one  first... if it doesnt work start combining
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> mhz, 
<mhz> Lord_Athur: hi man
<Lord_Athur> are you in the edubuntu-es channel?
<Lord_Athur> for login in it
<mhz> Lord_Athur: ya
<mhz> ogra: any ideas how to 'find' P3licano or something like that?
<ogra> P3L|C4N0, ping
<ogra> P3L|C4N0, ^^^^
<mhz> wow! he was here!
<ogra> mhz, he's here
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> i am bit slow today 
<mhz> ogra: he's logging in from http://200.106.97.20/
<mhz> Ilo-Peru
<mhz> P3L|C4N0: hola
<mhz> P3L|C4N0: necesito que conversemos, por favor
<Bob332> orga, i dont think that worked with the acpi param
<ogra> did you also try the nolapic option ? 
<ogra> (thats the built in irq mapper, also a prob on older HW) 
<Bob332> ogra, you mean in the bios?
<ogra> nope
<Bob332> i will have to try that, i just tried again with all of the params in the kernel line
<ogra> it was one f the options i asked you to test
<ogra> adding all might be a bit much :)
<Bob332> no luck on adding all
<Bob332> ok, i just added noacpi to the end after splash, testing now
<Bob332> whats the splash do anyway?
<ogra> thats the option that en/disables the bootsplash
<Bob332> cool
<Bob332> ok, no luck with adding noacpi
<ogra> try nolapic
<Bob332> ok, dosent work
<Bob332> why does edubundu say stuff about my LVM, i didnt think i installed that when it asked to partition my disk
<ogra> its only the bootscript ...
<ogra> it directly stops if lvm isnt installed ...
<Bob332> cool
<ogra> costs some nanoseconds in the bootprocess :)
<Bob332> because it says starting enterprise volume management system
<ogra> yes...
<ogra> but it doesnt do it :)
<Bob332> nice
<Bob332> ok so i have tried each and every acpi option 
<ogra> yes, i'm running out of ideas ...
<Bob332> is it definately my video card?
<ogra> looks like ...
<Bob332> or could it be something else
<Bob332> ok im booting to xp now to get my video card spec
<ogra> if you switch consoles after boot, do you get a console login prompt ? 
<pirast> i don't know what you are talking about but
<Bob332> i belive it's an old nvidia 32 mb card
<Bob332> ogra, i never get a login prompt
<Bob332> and no i cant do a console switch
<ogra> did you try to switch consoles ? 
<pirast> you could try vga=771 <-- did you try this?
<ogra> wont help
<pirast> okay..
<ogra> the boot runs fine 
<Bob332> whats that do?
<pirast> k
<ogra> X has a prob that apparently breaks the screen
<ogra> is the system locked up if you see the cursor ? (does the numlock key respond ?)
<Bob332>  my video card is a Nvidia Riva TNT2 Model 64/64 Pro
<ogra> Bob332, is the system locked up if you see the cursor ? (does the numlock key respond ?)
<Bob332> ogra, i am going to boot again for you
<Bob332> thanks
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> your xorg should use the riva128 drive then
<Bob332> the system dosent respond to any keyboard keystrokes, the num lock dosent light up
<ogra> and rivafb should be loaded in the console
<ogra> ok...
<Bob332> im going into recovery mode now to check logs
<Bob332> forgot to do that before
<ogra> try to boot without the splash option and see whats last in the bootprocess
<Bob332> how do i boot without the splash screen
<ogra> and if you go into recovery mode, check if riva128 is in xorg.conf ...
<Bob332> ok
<ogra> just remove the word "splash" from the kernel line
<Bob332> oh ok, when you said bootsplash before i thought it was something dealing with the RAM or ramdisk, didnt realize you meant the bootup splash screen, sorry
<Bob332> ok booting wihtout a splash
<Bob332> last part i see it starting Gnome Display Manager
<Bob332> it gets through the entire boot
<ogra> nothing afterwards ? 
<ogra> there are plenty of services that get started after gdm ...
<ogra> but its most likely a X problem ...
<Bob332> yea
<ogra> did you check your xorg.conf ? 
<Bob332> im in it now
<Bob332> what am i looking for?
<ogra> what does the Driver line say ? 
<Bob332> the Section Module?
<ogra> Section "Device"
<ogra> look for Driver in there
<Bob332> ah, i see there is an INTEL entry in there
<ogra> ouch
<Bob332> haha, that stinks
<ogra> has the mainboard a onboard graphics card ? 
<Bob332> yea, it does, never worked though
<ogra> hehe, i bet it does now :)
<Bob332> i cant believe i forgot about that
<Bob332> lol
<Bob332> u think it works now?
<ogra> try not changing and plug in the monitor to the onboard card ;)
<Bob332> k
<Bob332> ogra, onboard dosent even display my bios boot up or dell splash screen
<ogra> did you disable it in the BIOS ? 
<Bob332> nope, never did
<Bob332> in bios now, 
<ogra> leave the bios 
<ogra> just boot it and have the monitor in the onboard card ...
<Bob332> the primary video controller can be Auto or Onboard
<ogra> even if it doesnt work in console mode, the card was detected, so i bet it works in X
<Bob332> ok
<ogra> leave it as it was :)
<Bob332> ok i did
<Bob332> im booting , back in grub now
<Bob332> so your saying that after I finish the boot splash, switch my video to the intel onboard card and i should see something
<ogra> probably ... lets see :)
<Bob332> nope, black screen now....but im getting a green monitor light as opposed to the orange (meaning no signal)
<Bob332> brb meeting
* P3L|C4N0 re
<ogra> P3L|C4N0, mhz was looking for you 
<mhz> P3L|C4N0: hola
<P3L|C4N0> Hola Mauricio
<mhz> P3L|C4N0: you're from Peru, right?
<P3L|C4N0> efectivamente
<mhz> P3L|C4N0: have we met before? estuve en Juliaca hace unos meses
<P3L|C4N0> lo se
<mhz> so we met?
<P3L|C4N0> dime en que puedo ayudarte?
<mhz> ogra: shall I continue here or move to -es channel?
<ogra> if you speak spanish go to es, if you speak english, stay here ;)
<mhz> P3L|C4N0: puedes ingresar a #edubuntu-es ?
<P3L|C4N0> mhz, perfecto! deberia haber soporte en espaol
<mhz> Seveas: ping
<Seveas> pong
<mhz> Seveas: i'm already taking to P3L|C4N0 , the one who registered #edubuntu-es
<juliux> Seveas, can you fix a broken link on fridge ?
<Seveas> mhz, cool
<Seveas> juliux, fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<juliux> Seveas, have i to subscribe?
<Seveas> no
<juliux> Seveas, thanks
<mhz> Seveas: P3L|C4N0 has agreed to give you admin access. Is that useful? is that what we need? He has given you "access" to #ubuntu-es and #edubuntu-es
<Seveas> mhz, I saw that in messages from chanserv shooting by
<Seveas> ask him to give you access too, since I won't be around 24/7 :)
<mhz> no? not 24/7 ?
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra> Seveas, slacker :p
<ogra> you dare to sleep ?
<Seveas> 3 hours per night
<mhz> ah, ok, we forgive you
<ogra> bah ... thats much :)
<mhz> Seveas: actually there's whole theory about sleeping on a 3 hour periods
<ogra> just do it like the cats ... 5 min every hour 
<mhz> really?
<mhz> wow!
* mhz is cat and rabitt for Chinease zodiac :D
<mhz> but i love to have good sleeps
<ogra> does rabbit imply somthing ?
<mhz> hehehehe, no idea
<mhz> we otta ask chinease
<mhz> guys
* mhz getting a coffe
* P3L|C4N0 re
<mhz> re
<mhz> Seveas: so, can we now include #edubuntu-es as "official" channel for spanish speakers?
<Seveas> sure
<mhz> Seveas: and as soon as jdub tell me if we have or not the edubuntu-es ML, we'll include it too
<kjcole> Hiya.
<mhz> hi
<kjcole> mhz, since I know you have nothing better to do than join another ubuntu-* team, I have a question for you. ;-)
<mhz> hehehehehe
<mhz> LOL
<mhz> shoot
<kjcole> mhz, I'm finding a lot of overlap between the three I'm involved in: documentation, education, and accessibility.
* mhz tries to give 2 cents (at least) to each team
<mhz> why?
<mhz> I tkink diff are storng
<mhz> strong
<mhz> and clear
<mhz> maybe doc and educ share similar goals on many points
<kjcole> mhz, but I am mono-lingual...  I can use sign language, but after many years, I still am not fluent. 
<mhz> ahhh
<kjcole> mhz, I've been talking to deaf education experts here on campus about education and accessibility in Ubuntu, and the feedback I get is that I should think about other spoken languages and translation when thinking about deaf accessibility.
<kjcole> mhz, Hence, I'm talking to you. ;-)
<mhz> aahhhhhhh
<mhz> good point
<mhz> they give you
<kjcole> mhz: For example, a guy who's studying deaf linguistics said that he worked with people on making mathematics exams more accessible to a deaf audience, and found that the use of passive voice, which is common in computer documentation, is uncommon in many languages, and appears to be very "English".
<mhz> indeed
<kjcole> Deaf students have trouble with that.  He said "When planning the original documentation, avoid passive voice.  Then translations to other languages become easier, and also more accessible to deaf users."
<mhz> in spanish our passive voice is very rare. We use it a lot in Chile when we dont want to reckon we did soemthing bad :)
<kjcole> But I *DREAM* in 3rd-person, passive voice. Writing that way is very natural to me.  
<mhz> kjcole: I can help you. Help can be given from me to you :D
<kjcole> mhz, So, when the opportunity arises, perhaps you can lend your voice (active, rather than passive) and knowledge to the discussions.
<mhz> sure! I'd love to.
<mhz> Many english speakers do have that passive voice sindrom when learning spanish
<mhz> and from a chilean POV. it was hard for me at the begining.
<kjcole> Another colleague just walked in with a 95-page 8.5" x 11" book called "Readable English for Hearing-Impaired Students" which I expect to be VERY helpful!
<mhz> maybe it's a cultural thing
<mhz> wow!
<mhz> that reminds me I need to contact some local institutions that work on this areas
<mhz> otherwise, i'm not gonna be much of a help
<kjcole> I guess what I want is someone who's native language is less passive voice, but who has a strong command of English, and can say with relative ease "I would say it this way in my language," but say it in English.
<kjcole> When I converse, (online or offline) I'm fairly "active voice" I think.  And my writing -- I am told by others -- is pretty understandable.  But my audience is 100% English language fluent.
<blue-frog> kjcole i could try to go over some stuff of yours if u wish. am french..
<mhz> kjcole: i'd be very happy 'coz I will finally feel I am helping on something "difficult"
<kjcole> blue-frog: Nice.  Thanks.  
<kjcole> This is great!  Maybe I should write in my "native" style, and then have both of you (and others) translate to whatever's your favorite, with an "ear" towards making it more natural in your language.  Then finally, translate it back again.  A long way but probably a successful one.
<kjcole> (I wish I'
<kjcole> (I wish I'd been exposed to a second language early in life.)
<kjcole> blue-frog: Who are you?  (Or perhaps just "How do I contact you outside of IRC?")
<blue-frog> james.dupin@gmail.com
<blue-frog> wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesDupin
<kjcole> blue-frog: Thanks. And I'm Kevin Cole <kjcole@gri.gallaudet.edu>
<blue-frog> will have my resume soon on the page..
<mhz> kjcole: hmmm, I think I can read in english and "re-phrase" it as a non-passive (chilean) voice would say it
<mhz> then we'd skip one step
<mhz> kjcole: I used to work as a translator and interpreter
<kjcole> Yeah, but I'm assuming that if I'm writing something that is any good, you'll want it in another language anyway. ;-)
<mhz> kjcole: however, I did stop working as such because I am kind of hyperactive so I used to get sleepy in the process
<kjcole> mhz: Or maybe you'll just write your own from scratch...
<mhz> kjcole: yes and nop. 
<mhz> IMHPOV, more people should learn both spanish and english (considering current # of population speaking any of those)
<kjcole> mhz: Ah, that explains why you seem so familiar with my universe (deaf education).  I imagine some of that interpreting/translating and your interest in education links up well with what goes on here.
<blue-frog> btw a rewritten manual (using less passive voice) would sit next to the proper manual, correct?
<kjcole> blue-frog: I hope that there might be a compromise:  Although the style will be different and may "taste" a little strange, I'm wondering if we cannot achieve a "proper" manual that retains the active voice.
<mhz> kjcole: indeed
<kjcole> mhz: As for learning Spanish and English (or English and anything else): The spirit is willing but the mind is weak.  (And sometimes, if I'm tired enough, I become "The Ugly American (TM)"
<mhz> hehehehehehehe
<kjcole> mhz, I think you've met my evil alter ego at 7:00 AM.
<blue-frog> in my opinion shouldn't be too strange though, even thoug the focus wouldn't be learning english in such manuals it shouldn't be too improper use of the english language
<mhz> nha
<blue-frog> or locutions
<mhz> blue-frog: good point
<blue-frog> or we would arrive at a point where everebody's understandright awawy but a bit of the chinese way (no offense) learning english to cope in coversation but not good english
<mhz> blue-frog: however, kjcole aims to 'people who doesn not speak english' they speak deaf language
<blue-frog> and my spelling is getting worse...
<kjcole> blue-frog: Politically awkward for me then: If I'm trying to sell Ubuntu to a deaf audience, I'm going to need to say "Here's the English language manual, and oh, here's the deaf English language manual."
<mhz> blue-frog: lol
<blue-frog> oh yeah sry thru that out of my mind
<blue-frog> threw
<kjcole> In English, one might say that idea would go over like a "lead balloon". ;-)
<mhz> kjcole: the way i imagine it, deaf people do not even use same "gammar structures" we are used to, do they?
<kjcole> mhz, correct.  In fact, the true "ASL-ers" (American Sign Language users) who've used it since birth, would be more comfortable with French.
<mhz> ie: how would they think of "If i were you, I would have done this and such.."
<kjcole> ASL is really a "French import" in a way.
<blue-frog> but at the same time i guess disabled people don't like being put aside and i fear that what they could think if once again there is a 'normal' manual and a deaf manual, no?
<mhz> hhhmm. interesting, indeed.
<kjcole> mhz, Good question and one I cannot answer.  That's why I'm desperately trying to recruit deaf students here who are sympathetic to the cause. ;-)
<blue-frog> right
<mhz> please do so.
<blue-frog> problem is as well for us and the politically correct is that we don't even know how to interact between eachother..
* mhz still thinks we should have a survey or poll
<kjcole> blue-frog: Exactly my point about the "lead balloon" -- It would not float well.
<mhz> blue-frog: yup
<mhz> oooops, sorry guys. Wife needs me.
<mhz> and I betta obey
<mhz> :)
<blue-frog> hang on lead balloon.. explain to me quickly pls. i think that would be nice if i understand properly your idea..
<kjcole> mhz is now known as mhz_hen-pecked.
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> to say it formally.
<kjcole> blue-frog: American idiom -- "That idea will go over like a lead (periodic table element Pb) balloon" a.k.a. "That idea won't fly"
<blue-frog> kjcole or lead balloon is just an english expression that i don't know?
<blue-frog> ok then
<kjcole> It is an idea with little hope of future success.
<blue-frog> got it now
<blue-frog> i mean from the ameraican idiom :)
<kjcole> (And as a follow up, one often says, when proposing a new idea for the first time "Let's float that idea.")
<kjcole> (or "see if it floats" -- is it feasible?)
<kjcole> blue-frog: ah.
<kjcole> Well, I have a student waiting.  Talk to you later.
* mhz BBL
<mhz> re
<Bob332> anybody know how i can install a GDesklet on my edubuntu deesktop
<mhz> Bob332: i nvere used it yet. Did you try Synaptics?
<Bob332> mhz, no whats synaptics?
<Bob332> goto gdesklets.gnomedesktop.org, awesome site
<mhz> oh, it's Synaptic (sorry) and it's the application manager
<mhz> Bob332: indeed
<Bob332> no no, synaptic wouldnt do it here
<Bob332> this is a gnome applet and i forget how to istall it
<mhz> oooh
<mhz> sorry, no idea
<ogra> Bob332, so that means you actually *have* a desktop now ?
<Bob332> ogra, i wiped out my laptop
<Bob332> still have the other problem on the older PC
<mhz> ogra: sorry to ask again but... what exactly would we take care of (we, the ones who will own it) if we work on wmaker for edubuntu?
<Bob332> the distro is cool though
<ogra> thanks :)
<ogra> mhz, no idea, its your decision ...
<mhz> ogra: but you said that there may be issues regarding development maintainance or hardware stuuf or libraries?
* mhz cant remember well these days.
<ogra> make sure your changes dont break the package for other users ... 
<ogra> note that the package is used in ubuntu and kubuntu too
<mhz> and I assume even if we do the artwork for wmaker before dapper is frozen, that would not be edubuntu CD, right?
<mhz> or there are hopes?
<mhz> (had to ask :D )
<ogra> if its just a theme, i can put it into edubuntu-artwork ...
<ogra> so wmaker users can choose it
<mhz> perfect!
<mhz> we are planning to just start and see people response to it
<ogra> just check that you put it where they belong i guess there might be a wmaker-themes package or something
<mhz> ogra: and wil that cause probs. for the menu-profile stuff you mentioned yesterday night
<mhz> ?
<ogra> as long as wmaker complies to freedesktop.org specs it wont ...
<mhz> cool
<lucasvo> is there something like the gnome panel applet drawer, but which allows you to put in items even without opening? (so it stays open all the time?)
<ogra> another panel ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: I would like to have a panel where I can just drag my files in(as symlinks)
<ogra> thats what i meant ... put a sidepanel on your desktop
* mhz_dinner exists X
#edubuntu 2005-12-06
<paolob> hola ogra!
<ogra> hey paolob 
<paolob> ogra: I resolved the problem with the slow downloading: it was the cable.
<paolob> The other problem (errors booting) was a bad ram
<ogra> i thought so ...
<ogra> since you said it was always the same client
<ogra> nice to hear you solved it :)
<paolob> :-)
<paolob> Ogra, I have a question. I have those 40 clients. May I switch all them all together (for example switching on the breakers), or is there any problem?
<ogra> you mean putting them all on one switch ?
<paolob> Actually they load very slowly: is it because are switched on toghether
<ogra> thats also a drawback of the breezy ltsp ...
<ogra> it *is* booting very slow
<paolob> no, I mean that I was switching them on all together, and the loading in the clients is very slow. Is it because they are switched on together?
<ogra> i dont think so ...
<ogra> a normal breezy client takes ~90 seconds to boot
<paolob> There is a _special_ delay after the line:
<ogra> in breezy we have all services on the client you also have on the desktop installation (which was quite silly) 
<paolob> Begin: Running /script/nfs-premount - Done
<ogra> additionally the nfs mountin is very slow
<ogra> yup
<ogra> exactly 
<paolob> This evening a client lasted 3 minutes there
<ogra> there is a spec for faster booting in the next release, i'm working on that
<paolob> but does the client's cpu speed affect the client booting speed?
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientFasterStartup
<ogra> nope
<paolob> But then, why some client boots faster than other?
<ogra> its the amount of services that gets started, a sleep command in the nfs code which is totally useless
<ogra> that might be a network thing ...
<paolob> network thing? why? I saw boot speed differences in clients connected to the same switch...
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> different CPUs ?
<ogra> its very unlikely that the CPU speed affects the boot procee much ...
<paolob> no, I thing the cpu is the same
<ogra> execpt if you compare a PII 233 to a 1Ghz machine or so
<ogra> same amount of ram ? 
<paolob> I have pII/III 350
<paolob> so the 3 min delay after  Begin: Running /script/nfs-premount - Done is normal?
<ogra> did it happen on the first boot after the server was started ? there is a bug i couldnt track down yet, that causes a delay... but 3 min are very much
<ogra> i havent seen 3 min yet 
<ogra> sorry, need to reboot, brb
<mhz> hi
<Timsen> hi!
<ogra> hi :)
<mhz> hi all
<neurogeek> mhz, long time no see.. how are you doing?
<mhz> neurogeek: just fine! how about you? how did the Foro go?
<mhz> neurogeek: we have #edubuntu-es
<mhz> !
<mhz> neurogeek: have you seen PythonEduLab?
<neurogeek> the Foro was nice.. some problems in organization, but it went just fine
<neurogeek> no.. i haven't.. some links??
<mhz> wiki:PythonEduLab :)
<neurogeek> Ok
<neurogeek> mhz, how are you doing?
<mhz> just  a little worried money is not coming in but out
<neurogeek> mhz, things will get better
<mhz> yup
<mhz> maybe after xmas
<mhz> i cant complain, my family is healthy :)
<mhz> so no doctors, no hospitals, etc.
<neurogeek> thats great
<mhz> were people happy with the foro
<neurogeek> yes.. most people were happy with the foro.. it was a nice experience, but better you didn't invest that money in comming
<neurogeek> because you would have made some impact, but not as much as you've wanted to
<mhz> why?
<neurogeek> they are starting to organize next year's event.. that is going to be a whole better in that sense
<neurogeek> because there were mostly people concerned with migration stuff.. and not a lot of people interested in education
<mhz> oh
<mhz> were people interested in free access to IT?
<mhz> and free access to knowledge?
<neurogeek> yes, but not as much as i would like
<neurogeek> but we should start talking about plans and actions to be taken.. and start spreading words from now on
<mhz> neurogeek: cool
<mhz> ubuntu-marketing is working on some nice initiatives
<neurogeek> perfect.. 
<mhz> personally, i like the idea of UbuntuInStore day
<neurogeek> whats that??
<mhz> and regardign edubuntu, I have just finished my first proposal for edubuntu invitations, so people (teachers, parents, etc) receive one for edubuntu demos.
<neurogeek> excellent
<mhz> what?
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuInStoresDay
<mhz> also, magicfab (Fabian...) has done an Ubuntu 'leaflet' (similar to a diptico) for spanish efforts
<mhz> and, last but not least, magicfab has also started UbuntuInLibraries
<mhz> very coold idea!
<neurogeek> yes.. jejeje it is a very nice idea
<mhz> and me, neurogeek, in case you wish to jump up, I am starting to work on windowmaker themed for edubuntu light boxes
<mhz> neurogeek: which of all?
<neurogeek> all of them.. UbuntuInLibraries(Stores) and the Ubuntu leaflet
<neurogeek> i would rather use fluxbox instead of windowmaker.... 
<neurogeek> but i could help, some way or another
<mhz> and I should have a meeting with Pablo (designer volutneered for edubuntu stuff) about desktops design for 3 set of ages
<mhz> neurogeek: I showed fluxbox to very non linux people (wife, mom, dad, etc)  THey paniced
<neurogeek> hehehe i could imagine those faces.
<mhz> ogra: JaneW: hi.  What should I say to Pablo? which set of desktop should we work on for dapper? 
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> but maybe I didn't customize it very much
<ogra> i thought you already decided that
<mhz> ogra: but you mentioned a hired designer that will help
<ogra> and its your decision ...
<mhz> just you didnt know which set 
<ogra> yes, for the default desktop
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> the edubutu-artwork package will have 3 choices for different ages ...
<mhz> yup
<ogra> i havent heard back from jane silber yet 
<mhz> hmm, any ideas how soon we could know?
<ogra> might take some weeks ... i think she first wants to have this person 
<mhz> or... can we just decide for 2 artowrks and the person works on the pending one?
<ogra> but there is no problem adding a fourth option "community contributed" to the package
<ogra> nope, i'd like to clerify it with the management first ...
<mhz> ok, it just that i am trying to set priorities
<ogra> the last minute artwork change in breezy caused a lot of trouble ... i wont do that again
<mhz> and, you know the date for daper freeze?
<ogra> see DapperReleaseSchedule ...
<mhz> duh! ok
<ogra> (not from the top ofmy head)
<mhz> neurogeek: btw, ogra  needs people with py skills :)
<ogra> absolutely ...
<neurogeek> ogra, nice to meet you.. if i can be of any help.. just let me know
<mhz> neurogeek: there are lots of things to do
<ogra> i have a bzr archive with several projects, feel free to branch one or the other: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/
<ogra> :)
<mhz> neurogeek: and ogra needs people hands for py so he can have spare time for the girlfriend :D
<neurogeek> Ok
<neurogeek> i'll take a look
<neurogeek> jejeje
<ogra> mhz, heh, she will be pleased to hear :)
<mhz> neurogeek: thx
<mhz> :) i thought so, ogra
<mhz> neurogeek: and in case i can write a proper mail yet, please spread the word that people can now happily visit #edubuntu-es (so no excuses)
<mhz> :)
<neurogeek> OK. i'll do that
<mhz> cool
<mhz> ogra: i dont want to bug but it's been long since I wrote 2 mails to mako and ping him in IRC (no that long here), and still zero answer. Today is not a big deal to me because first article is on its way to distribution but next article I'd like to see the list update.
<ogra> mhz, i cant reach him on other ways than you ...
<ogra> sorry ...
<ogra> i could only mail him or ping him on IRC as well ...
<ogra> i promise i'll ask him if i see him around ..
<mhz> thx, and I hope you/him understand this "buging" is caused only because I did mention the url in 2 articles.
<mhz> and don't wanna look like a liar or lier
<ogra> i understand you very well ... and i agree that its a uncomfortable situation... but since mako doesnt work for canonical anymore he's very busy ...
<ogra> and hard to catch
<mhz> ok
<mhz> ogra: is it afrikaans the language?
<ogra> of what ? 
<mhz> is that the way highvoltage's language is written?
<mhz> never mind, he can fix it if it is a typo.
<ogra> no idea if he natively speaks afrikaans
<ogra> we always spoke english, even in person
<mhz> ah
<mhz> yup, afrikaans it is. he's memeber of the lp translator team
<Belutz> ogra, do you have the picture file of the edubuntu text in the first page of your edubuntu_talk.pdf ?
<ogra> hmm, let me look ...
<ogra> i have all pics, yes ...
<Belutz> could you send all the pics to belutz@ubuntu.com ?
<Belutz> thanks in advance :-)
<ogra> thats the screenshot ? 
<ogra> ah, ok, sure ...
<Belutz> yes with the screenshot also :)
<Belutz> ogra, thanks
<Lord_Athur> hi
<jelkner> ogra: hi oliver, are you here?
<ogra> jelkner, sorry, i've to prepare a meeting, no time before 21 UTC
<jelkner> ok, talk to you later then...
<Lord_Athur> how can I download the code made for the developers for the new edubuntu version?
<Lord_Athur> nobody?
<jelkner> ogra: oliver, are you finished with your meeting?
<jelkner> jinty: thanks for repackaging cando!
<jelkner> oh well, looks like nobody is here... i'll check back tomorrow...
#edubuntu 2005-12-07
<enceladus> hi everybody!
<ogra> hmm, short visit
<mhz> hi
<paolob> hola toditos
<mhz> hey paolob 
<paolob> mhz: te mueves por todos los lados :-)
<mhz> heheh, paolob yup. This is the main channel for this project development
<highvoltage> ogra_: are you familiar with http://www.turbogears.org ?
<highvoltage> i think that might just be the answer to the drupal problem.
<mhz> hi all
<pirast> hey
<mhz> hi pirast 
<highvoltage> hi mhz 
<mhz> hi highvoltage 
<mhz> nice to see ya around
<mhz> highvoltage: are subscribed to edubuntu ML?
<mhz> highvoltage: did you read my email about the https and http diff to access wikis same /data dir?
<highvoltage> mhz: i'm a bit behind. catching up on work... i'm also behind on.
* highvoltage checks the list
<mhz> hehe, highvoltage I can paste it in query if it is easier for you?
<highvoltage> mhz: you think it's a problem that the edubuntu wiki and ubuntu wiki has the same content?
<highvoltage> is that what you're saying?
<highvoltage>  / asking?
<mhz> nope
<mhz> I am saying that IF I log in using the ...edubuntu.org/UserPreferences link
<mhz> I am not able to get any url that is https://wiki.ubuntu...
<mhz> I know, i know they share same exact /data
<mhz> so that is not a major prob.
<mhz> UNLESS, you are chatting or receiving emails that have urls with https://wiki.ubuntu...
<mhz> highvoltage: in that case, you cant just copy/paste or open a new tab from your email or irc
<mhz> you need to either: a) log off and back from ubuntu url
<mhz> b) type the url all manually
<highvoltage> that is weird.
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> that's my post
<mhz> either all htpps or all http
<mhz> but please not mixed urls
<mhz> highvoltage: again (i know they share exactly same /data)
<highvoltage> mhz: have you asked hno73 about it? he's online atm it seems.
<mhz> hmm, nope yet. /me was reading emails (85!)
<mhz> * [hno73]  (n=Henrik@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk): gaim
<mhz> * [hno73]  irc.freenode.net :http://freenode.net/
<mhz> * [hno73]  is identified to services 
<mhz> * [hno73]  End of WHOIS list.
<Navire> Hi, folks
<mhz> hi, Navire 
<Navire> I am using LTSP on Ubuntu (no Edubutu).
<mhz> OK
<Navire> It is very slow on my client P 100Mhz
* mhz has only tried edubuntu ltsp
<Navire> Breezy suport LTSP. But no run cool!!!
<Navire> LSTp on Ubuntu required client robust?
<Navire> On debian SID runing fast with client 32MB 100Mhz
<Navire> My server is Athlon 1800mhz, 512 RAM. I use in my home. One client only.
<mhz> Navire: no idea, sorry. I have only used edubuntu LTSP. I know ogra modified LTSP for edubuntu, and machines run pretty well.
<mhz> I do know that it seems that for every station, you should probably have 128 RAM on the server.
<mhz> Yagisan: hi gifeted m8
<mhz> gifted
<Navire> mhz: What's client your use?
<mhz> so far, I have only used 2 laptops
<mhz> 500 and 600 MHz each
<lucasvo> Navire: what is slow? X or bootup or what?
<mhz> so maybe not the best 'reference' :)
<Navire> Boot...
<Navire> X very slow
<mhz> boot up time will be faser in dapper (edubuntu)
<lucasvo> Navire: what window manager are you running?
<mhz> lucasvo: indeed, wm make it heavier
<lucasvo> one can not compare gnome and fvwm 
<Navire> Edubuntu work in anbient corporation?
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> Navire: so you are running LTSP with GNOME  and that server?
<mhz> Navire: edubuntu = ubuntu + LTSP + educational apps.
<Navire> Ok
<mhz> Navire: so maybe if you define corporation environment... we could answer better
<Navire> Edubuntu, work cool with olds workstation?
<Navire> Pentium 100Mhz 32RAM.
<mhz> I tried it once on a 400 MHz 64 MB Ram station and a 1.8 GHz 256 RAm server... it was god, but only one station tested :(
<mhz> Navire: edubuntu stations should have minimum 48 MB
<Navire> I use one station in my home.  server 1.8Ghz e client 100mhz 32ram. Run cool on Debian SID. Now I am trying Ubuntu and no run cool!!!
<mhz> hmm,
<mhz> maybe then yu could ask ogra, the Mr. Edubuntu LTSP man
<Navire> I am get iso LTSP  to install hand on ubuntu.
<mhz> hmmm, have you asked the #ltsp guys?
<Navire> LTSP on Debian SID experiense very cool.
<Navire> No.
<Navire> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPHowTo
<mhz> Navire: good guide
<mhz> Navire: sorry, i have to cook now
<Navire> Ok
<Navire> Thank you
<Navire> :)
<mhz_cookin> i whish i can be betta help next time. I'm pretty sure there must be a config option that is making it slow
<mhz_cookin> good luck
<Navire> mhz + cook = FAT -> Ghz!!!
<mhz_cookin> LOL!
<mhz_cookin> hehehe
<mhz_cookin> indeed
<mhz_cookin> c ya lata
<lucasvo> Navire: which windowmanager are you using on debian SID?
<Navire> KDE 3.4
<Navire> Runing very cool
<Navire> Sounds... fine!!!
<Navire> No problems with SID.
<Navire> Now I am testing Ubuntu.
* mhz_cookin BBS
<jelkner> kjcole: kevin, hello
<jelkner> ogra: oliver, is now a good time to ask a few questions?
<kjcole> jelkner, hi.  Glad to catch you:  I was JUST in e-mail sending to you...
<kjcole> jelkner, when your "call" came in.
<jelkner> what's up?
<kjcole> jelkner, I think I need you to help push in the communty council
<jelkner> ok, how?
<kjcole> jelkner, regarding LoCo naming.  It seems smurf wants "all US teams" to agree on a naming scheme... 
<jelkner> how many US teams are there?
<kjcole> jelkner, I see that as a bit hard to coordinate, and meanwhile, on the Community Council agenda, I see an application from "NewJerseyTeam"
<jelkner> when is the meeting?
<kjcole> jelkner, I don't know.  Let me see.
<kjcole> jelkner, (to both those questions)
<kjcole> jelkner, not as many teams as I thought, but will they be willing to compromise on names?  I'll try contacting and seeing.
<kjcole> jelkner, (1) austin, tx (2) dallas, tx (3) detroit, (4) NJ (5) Morgantown, WV, (6) Potsdam, NY, (8) Washington, DC.
<jelkner> kjcole: i just finished reading the email... let me think...
<kjcole> jelkner, Community Council next meeting Tue, Dec 6,  9:00 AM EST.  So, you may have to lobby through e-mail.  (I'll try to make the meeting live.)
<jelkner> kjcole: just sent an email, check it out.
<kjcole> jelkner, that should wake up someone... 
<jelkner> so, i'll see you sunday at 8 am, yes?
<kjcole> jelkner, thanks.  The 8 LoCo's that I've found are those that listed themselves on the wiki.  Two of the so far, don't appear to have e-mail addresses in obvious places.
<jelkner> let's wait and see what comes back from the email
<kjcole> jelkner, yep.  And I *JUST* got a new ID card today, plus approval for PyCon.
<jelkner> cool!
<kjcole> Don't forget your GPG stuff.
<jelkner> i've already loaded it on my laptop
<kjcole> jelkner, last thought (as I imagine you're about to run off): My Dapper laptop appears to be running GNOME and KDE okay after all.  (I did the upgrade not the install from scratch.)
<jelkner> yeah, they got fixed the day after
<jelkner> i've got dapper running here too
<jelkner> i did a dist-upgrade from hoary (not even breezy), and all worked well!
<kjcole> jelkner, I got KDE running a few minutes after you left (although some pieces are still missing).
<jelkner> keep in mind though, that some things will break from time to time
<jelkner> and there will be large numbers of updated packages every day
<jelkner> it's fun to watch it progress, though
<jelkner> ogra: you here, oliver?
<kjcole> jelkner, Yeah.  Expected.  BTW did you see the mail from Chris Otten (CEO4U) who wants to start teaching Ubuntu in DC?
<jelkner> no
<jelkner> where?
<jelkner> i mean where does he want to teach?
<kjcole> He sent to all of us (DC people) yesterday.  Dunno exactly where he wants to teach.
<jelkner> great
<jelkner> ok, here come students, i gotta run...
<jelkner> cya
<blue-frog> ogra hw conf files should be tweaked using a bash script, pls (assuming I make a backup of the original file first)
<blue-frog> s/hw/how
<kjcole> any docteam members here for the theoretical meeting on #ubuntu-meeting?
<kjcole> (Fridge says "Docteam Meeting NOW".  I'm attemting to herd cats.)
#edubuntu 2005-12-08
<jacktherippe> hello 
<jacktherippe> one  question plss   is  there  a  edubuntu  live cd  for  ppc  ?
<juliux> ogra_, ping
<lucasvo> hi
<lucasvo> is there any way how to exchange ssh keys on ltsp client? I would like to use loopback ssh to ltsp client
<lucasvo> with these commands: ssh -R 2000:localhost:22 user@A  && ssh -p 2000 user@localhost
<lucasvo> ogra_: loopback ssh doesn't work well :(
<lucasvo> I think it is  a problem of key handling/writing permission on ltsp client
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$ ssh -p 2000 lucasvo@localhost
<lucasvo> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$
<lucasvo> hm stupid buggy keyboard preferences
<lucasvo> ogra_: what's the problem with not using ordinary vnc on ltsp clients?
<Lord_Athur> hi
<lucasvo> Lord_Athur: hi
<Lord_Athur> I'm building my own web page with apache, but its address is my IP, can I change it(without pay)?
<Lord_Athur> ogra_, do you know it?
<Lord_Athur> 
<Breezy> Hello
<Breezy> Okay...just got the ISO, made the disk, booted the disk up and I am at the partitioning part.  I have two drives (hda - with fat32 and ext3 - from a previous redhad install - and hdb with fat32, ext3 and swap partition).  The options inially given is to erase hda and/or hdb...I want to save my windows partitions on each if possible.  I am trying to do the manual part, but it still doesn't seem to allow me to erase just the ext3
<Breezy> One other thing...the Network configuration part doesn't allow DHCP for IP configuration...any way to set that?
<spacey> Breezy, just choose manually configure partition table
<spacey> or something similar
<spacey> and edubuntu intends to be the dhcp server itself. You can skip that sort of and manually change it later to auto at least
<spacey> because it wants to be dhcp server itself it will ask you for static ip first
<spacey> but you can easily reconfigure that for DHCP after install
<Breezy> Sorry...had to take care of something...
<Breezy> But if I have a DHCP server already...is there no way to set this at inital install time?  Could a check box be added to allow DHCP support maybe?
<spacey> Breezy, for now you should just enter an static ip temporary until you finished install. If i remember the install correctly
<spacey> easy to change later
<spacey> the reason why its not its because of the way edubuntu is targetted but you can always request that feature. but that won't help you on short term.
<spacey> i think i just entered ip address first, didn't configure dhcpd and fixed it afterwards.
<spacey> it has been a while for me
<Breezy> ok...
<spacey> i'm going to make dinner & eat now. i'll be back later
<spacey> Breezy, do you intend to use the LTSP facility in edubuntu?
<spacey> or just use it as a normal desktop
<spacey> if its just as an edubuntu desktop you can install it with the "standalone" boot parameter. If not just continue with the above
<Breezy> I was planning on trying it out to see if its something that might be useful for my wife's school that she teaches at.  I regret to say, I do not even know what LTSP stands for...
<Breezy> well...have to go somewhere...talk at you later...with more questions I'm sure...
<jingl3> Hi this is jingl3 in UK, just installed edubunbtu 5.10
<jingl3> I have a problem logging in to the terminal
<jingl3> it shows the login prompt, but when I click OK it just reverts to the prompt again
<spacey> thin client? or on the machine itself?
<jingl3> spacey - On the thin client
<blue-frog> jingl3, on server in a terminal do    sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<blue-frog> if not working do sudo rm /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts   then   sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<jingl3> OK - must quit to try it. Will let you know - thanks!
<jingl3> Hi folks - yes, updating the sshkeys did the job. Many thanks!
<jingl3> Just need to fix the keyboard to gb - that's easy.
<blue-frog> jingl3, in lts.conf
<jingl3> Yep - I have K12LTSP 4.1 running
<mhz> hi all
<skeeter_652> what is the minimum HD size and RAM for running a server with 16-20 thin client machines?
<skeeter_652> have any experience with running edubuntu with server and thin client machines?
<skeeter_652> wondering what kind of minimum system I need for a server
<mhz> skeeter_652: hi
<skeeter_652> hi
<mhz> skeeter_652: for each client, server should have a min. ram of 128
<skeeter_652> that's per client?
<mhz> yup
<skeeter_652> HD space?
<mhz> so clients will be able to run gnome desktop apps. 'normally'
<skeeter_652> ok. what about hd space and processor?
<mhz> HD GB it's up to you. however, HD speed is more relevant
<mhz> the fastest the HD, the better
<mhz> processor, for a gnome environement, 2GB and up
<mhz> processor, for a gnome environement, 2GHz and up
<mhz> sorry )
<skeeter_652> no problem...that's what I wanted to know. thx
<mhz> obvoilsy, the fastest the better
<skeeter_652> can i use any old machine for the client machines?
<mhz> but keep in mind if 16 run OOO at the same time... ooofff
<pirast> hi, i tried to run edubuntu with ltsp at home.. Now I have one problem: The mouse at the thin client does not react.. any ideas?
<mhz> any machine with at least 48 MB ram will be ok, as long as it boots via net
<mhz> (PXE)
<mhz> pirast: hi
<mhz> pirast: nope, not a clue.
<mhz> :(
<pirast> hm ok.. but thanks :-)
<mhz> which mouse r u trying?
<mhz> USB?
<mhz> PS2?
<pirast> no, ps / s
<pirast> ps / 2
<pirast> ich already tried 2 mouses
<pirast> so i dont think that it is a mouse related problem
<mhz> any usb available?
* mhz has only tried USB mice
<pirast> jupp, i could try and i will try :-)
<pirast> btw. edubuntu is really, really impressive
<mhz> we think so
<mhz> :)
<mhz> but there's still lot to do
<pirast> yes, it seems to me that the next release will fix that... 
<mhz> pirast: are you subscribed to the ML?
<mhz> next release will fix many things, indeed.
<pirast> mhz: i think so, yes :-) but i dont post there :-)
<mhz> but probably new one will be reported :)
<mhz> oh
<mhz> IMO, more people participate on ML than IRC :(
<pirast> jupp and ogra seems to be away, he was in essen today :-)
<blue-frog> pirast are u using a console switch?
* mhz BBS
<pirast> blue-frog: i connected the server and the client directly, there is no switch
<blue-frog> pirast, don't know then, should work, the only time it doesn't work for me is when i use a usb console switch
#edubuntu 2005-12-09
<gand_> I've installed mysql but it don't start
<gand_> I get this error: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)'
<mhz_cleanin> gand_: hi there
* mhz_cleanin has no idea bout mysql
<gand_> I wish to install phpbb
<gand_> otherwhise I can use edubuntu reinstlled postgre but I don't know haw to set postgre root password
<gand_> reinstlled - preinstalled
<mhz> gand_: have you tried #ubuntu ?
<mhz> IMHO, I guess those guys are very general linux related experts
<mhz> remeber that Edubuntu is nothing but Ubuntu + LTSP (edubuntu one) + educational apps.
<gand_> I'm tryng #mysql, #ubuntu is very crowded :)
<ratpH1nk> quick question about the distro
<ratpH1nk> any PPC branch? (for all of those old macs?)
<ajmitch_> aftrenoon
<ajmitch_> ogra_: you're famous - edubuntu on slashdot :)
<ratpH1nk> that is what caught my attn :)
<dfused> so, since I've never used ubuntu linux, and didn't find anything yet on the page....... will this OS run win apps?
<Lord_Athur> hi everyone
<dfused> hi
<Lord_Athur> :)
<Lord_Athur> mhz, I found a program (GAMBAS) and it is really similar to VB
<Lord_Athur> and I used VB in windows
<Lord_Athur> this allows me to program in Linux
<Lord_Athur> what do you think  mhz ?
<spacey> dfused, same win apps as any other distro
<spacey> ..
<ratpH1nk> heh
<crimsun> just as a heads-up, there's an article on /. that's about to go live on edubuntu
<ajmitch_> about to?
<ajmitch_> it's been live here for quite awhile
<Domingus> Is the edubuntu cd available as alivecd? or just as a pure instal to hd?
<crimsun> Domingus: both
<crimsun> ajmitch_: hmm, maybe a cache issue on my end? *shrug*
<Domingus> Great, then ill hava go at it....
<Domingus> Thanks by the way... :)
<crimsun> Domingus: err, I'm thinking Dapper. If you want Breezy, there are install ones only.
<crimsun> Domingus: Sorry about the mix-up
<Domingus> Ok. I was thinking of the Breezy. Ill just have to wait a bit then :8
<Domingus> But thanks anyway..
<crimsun> you could always try edubuntu in a vmware session, for instance :)
<gand_> mhz,   mysql problem solved: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=542031
<mhz> gand_: heeeeee!
* mhz_movie BBS
<gand_> thanks bye
<Steve_Dondley> hi, cool distro
<Steve_Dondley> what kind of hardware is needed to run this?
<Steve_Dondley> hello?
<crimsun> Steve_Dondley: i386, amd64 for the Breezy install CDs
<Steve_Dondley> processor speed?  ram?
<Steve_Dondley> thanks
<Steve_Dondley> I've got an old dell machine.  wondering if it will work
<crimsun> the Ubuntu requirements are a good guideline
<Steve_Dondley> ok, i'll have a look.
<crimsun> I'd say 300 MHz with 128 MB will be fairly sluggish
<Steve_Dondley> hmmm, not sure if it has that
<Steve_Dondley> amout of ram
<crimsun> then you'll need to make fairly drastic modifications to make it run more smoothly
<crimsun> though since it uses LTSP, the client requirements are much lower
<Steve_Dondley> LTSP?
<Steve_Dondley> I don't use any desktop manager myself so it's almost all greek
<crimsun> http://www.ltsp.org/
<Steve_Dondley> huh, that's interesting.
<Steve_Dondley> you are saying ebuntu has ltsp built into it.  That's cool.
<Steve_Dondley> my nephew, whose family is rather poor, were looking to have me build a machine for them.  This is perfect, though he just turned 3.
<Steve_Dondley> Do you know if there are games available for 3 year olds.  /. says it's geared for kids 5 to 12.
<crimsun> I don't know of any specifically for 3 year-olds
<crimsun> I don't see the harm in trying it out
<Steve_Dondley> no big deal.  There's lots of flash games on the net he could use.
<Steve_Dondley> yeah, I'll definitely give it a shot.  I'll probably set one up for my kid.
<crimsun> nice :)
<Steve_Dondley> Yeah, he loves his old beat up laptop with several keys missing.  Sesamestreet.com is his current favorite!
<Steve_Dondley> thanks for the help.
<Steve_Dondley> I'm interested to check out the installation for ubuntu myself.  I hear it's quite remarkable.
<crimsun> it's pretty straightforward, hopefully
<crimsun> all hardware have their quirks
<juliux> ogra_, ping
<juliux> ogra_, ping!
<euthydemus> does anybody know if problems are holding up a PPC rollout?
<RichiH> hi
<RichiH> is there a live cd?
<euthydemus> I only see install cds
* RichiH too
<RichiH> which sucks as my sister will not install anything until her thesis is finished
<RichiH> nad i want to let her daughter use linux :)
<bill> Good morning (in Scotland anyway). Sorry to interrupt. I'm trying to install Edubuntu 5.10 on AMD 64 and it is failing during the base install task. It tells me to look at /target/var/log/bootstrap.log but that directory is empty. The last message I can read before it gets overwritten with the message is something about not being able to download package zlib1g.
<bill> (oh, I'm doing a workstation fresh install, btw)
<RichiH> bill: i do not use ubuntu, but it would seem that the server is wrong, does not hold the file any more, is overloaded or your network connection is bad
<RichiH> bill: you canjust apt-get install edubuntu-desktop from (k)ubuntu, btw
<bill> RichiH: maybe it is overloaded. I'm giving edubuntu a go today because it was mentioned on slashdot yesterday. Maybe other people are too. I'm doing a fresh install because I am switching from Fedora Core 4.
<RichiH> it's always good to switch to debian from red hat :)
<RichiH> or ubuntu & fc, in this special case ;)
<bill> RichiH: maybe I'll leave it a few hours and try again. (I think my network connection is good. I'm using another PC sharing the same connection right now. And the DHCP lookup seemed to go well during edubuntu install)
<bill> RichiH: well, I switched from Mandriva to Fedora Core 4 about five months ago and have since discovered Ubuntu. I thought I'd try out Edubuntu on my kids' PC and see how it goes.
<lucasvo> bill: I also had some problems with zlib1g
<lucasvo> bill: but burning a new cd solved my problem
<bill> lucasvo: oh? interesting. the iso checks out okay with md5.
<bill> lucasvo: i'll burn another. 
<lucasvo> bill: in my case I had a bad isoimage
<bill> :) reburning the CD worked (same iso image). At least, I'm further through installation then last time
* bill is running edubuntu successfully now. thanks.
<lucasvo> bill: it is strange
<lucasvo> bill: I have to look into it more deeply
<lucasvo> bill: what do you think, is it only bad luck or some strange code? 
<in8> any humans in here?
<in8> any plans for a live CD version of edubuntu?
<Yagisan> in8: yes, this is a habit for homo sapiens
<Yagisan> edubuntu is too big for a livecd
<Yagisan> perhaps a livedvd in future ?
<pirast> i heard that there will be a livecd in edubuntu dapper maybe
<pirast> afk
<Yagisan> yes that may be, ogra knows best - but not for not for breezy
<Yagisan> ahgh,  s/not for not for/not for/
<in8> cool.  I just installed my first ubuntu on friday.  Very nice
<spacey> morning
<spacey> lots of confusing about edubuntu in the slashdot post btw
<spacey> few people expect standalone install but set up a classroom server 
<Yagisan> it's on slashdot ?
<spacey> yup
<in8> that's where I saw the edubuntu announce too
* Yagisan has been busy with "real life"
<spacey> guess the installer should ask in a menu if you want a classroom server or a standalone
<spacey> Yagisan, good for you :)
<Yagisan> IIRC you had to type "worstation" at install to get a stand alone
<Yagisan> spacey: I'm happy to trade changing nappies for a few hours at the pc - want to sap
<Yagisan> s/sap/swap
<spacey> oh
<spacey> crap
<Yagisan> ;)
<spacey> workstation ;p
<spacey> worstation ;P
<spacey> warstation!
<in8> My take on the live / install thing:  I think a lot of peopl have a PC they don't want their kids messing with, so if they can boot a live CD for the kid's session (at home) they'd be happier.
<spacey> in8, i think you can just do a normal install
<spacey> much faster
<in8> also, perhaps a 'pared down' version that fits on a CD for poor humans who don't have a DVD drive?
<spacey> they can't mess up the system anyway if there are not sudo user
<spacey> in8, edubuntu comes on CD
<in8> Most people use windows still
<in8> Im talking live CD, Yagisan suggested a liveDVD earlier
<spacey> in8, well there is the live cd if you really want to use it. but i recommend installing it
<spacey> there is a livecd
<in8> of edubuntu?
<spacey> hmm yeah, but i think its for dapper
<Yagisan> in8: I suggested for future
<in8> I installed the Ubuntu at work and am using it as a hylafax server
<spacey> hylafax?
<Yagisan> brb - my rsi is acting up, need to find a pain killer
* Yagisan would like to set up hylafax - looks nice
<in8> I popped in today after seeing a slashdot post about EDUbuntu, but didn't see a liveCD version on *that*
<in8> spacey: google hylafax, its a fax server
<in8> spacey: I had to change media sources and apt-get it
<in8> Yagisan: I'm using it in conjunction with WHFC - works good
<Yagisan> in8: The only thing that stops me deplaoying it
* Yagisan can't type today
<in8> is what? WHFC?
<Yagisan> deploying it is, I haven't figured out a way to diverting incoming voice calls to and answering machine, while still taking incoming faxes
* Yagisan chews on my codeine dry
<in8> we have a PBX system which is separate from a couple of normal lines we use for faxing
<in8> seems like you could use something like http://www.asterisk.org/, no?
<Yagisan> I have 1 (for the foreseeable future anyway), so until that changes, or I build a ubuntu-based answering machine ...
<in8> ah
<in8> asterisk is overkill then
<Yagisan> but nice
<Yagisan> I already checked it out. I need to move before I can deploy that
<in8> what about distinct ring or something like that?
<Yagisan> IIRC distinct ring services were incompatible with my adsl service, but to be honest - it's been a while since I checked
<in8> oh well.  That seemed like the perfect solution since hylafax supports it
<Yagisan> wow - that slashdot article really is misinformed
<in8> I didn't actually read it, I just saw there was an edubuntu and ran to investigate
<in8> Yagisan: I *did* just find a fax switch compatible with ADSL here: http://www.office1000.com/supplies/commandcommunications.html
<Yagisan> they missed the target audience
<in8> how many slashdotters have kids I wonder?
<in8> I do
<Yagisan> in8: thanks - I'll talk to telstra tomorrow about if I have a similar service here
<Yagisan> I have kids, but I don't read slashdot often. To many trolls, I prefer lwn
<in8> lwn?
<Yagisan> in8: http://lwn.net/
<in8> Yagisan: thanks! /. does have other kinds of info too though - science, etc.  I'm also a Mac user
* Yagisan wonders why the article didn't mention it is targeted at *schools* that teach 5-12 year olds
* Yagisan likes mac hardware, but not the os
<in8> Yagisan: too early for *that* old debate ;)
<in8> I totally missed that the target was schools.  Makes good sense
<in8> My oldest is in 1st grade and they're using awful windows junk
<spacey> Yagisan, yup the article is really bad
<spacey> but maybe its not clear on our main page?
<Yagisan> in8: I just like to tinker with the hardware
<spacey> or people just don't read properly 
<Yagisan> in8: my kids are too young for edubuntu ATM (21months and 17 days)
<in8> Yagisan: cool! no sleep for you anyway, plenty of time to tinker
<Yagisan> spacey: If they had had edubuntu when they were kids, they would have no trouble reading the front page :-P
<spacey> my 12 year old sister wants to use Ubuntu because I use it :D (finally giving some good examples)
<spacey> Yagisan, :)
<Yagisan> my wife commented today that her new system (an Ubuntu breezy based thin client) is much nicer then her old windows system
<Yagisan> I thought that was odd, as she never comments about the pc's
<in8> I have convinced mine to use Mozilla instead of Outlook / IE, but so far a linux system on her PC is not happenin'.  I managed to get her on Win Server 2003 at least
<Yagisan> in8: no time for me to tinker :( The kids barely leave me time to go to the loo in peace
<Yagisan> it's 12:45am and the oldest is running around with her nappy in her hands
<Yagisan> brb
<Yagisan> re
<in8> so, being new to ubuntu - is the distro based on debian?  I have trad. used Redhat / Mandriva
<spacey> basicly yes
<in8> So far, I haven't run into any 'show stoppers' - the dpkg system is not much different from rpm (from a users perspective), and the /etc/init.d/ services work the same way.  I was afraid I wouldn't be able to do anything
<Yagisan> in8: It should run smoothly for you, if not we can give specific help on edubuntu or ltsp stuff here
<Yagisan> in8: and general help is in #ubuntu
<in8> Yagisan: thanks, I'll add #ubuntu to my startup list.
<TheMafia> is there a livecd version of edubuntu?
<in8> haha! I came and asked the same question!
<TheMafia> lol
<in8> not yet apparently
<TheMafia> you must have just read slashdot as well
<in8> yeah
<in8> yagisan was really helpful
<TheMafia> I can stear completely clear of winblows because my son has too many games that won't play on linux
<TheMafia> did he say if there was a live cd planned?
<in8> I thought there would be a lot of parents who didn't want to mess up their windows systems
<Yagisan> TheMafia: I'm still here
<in8> its pretty late in Aussie land
<Yagisan> in8: you got it :)
<TheMafia> Yagisan, is there a livecd planned?
<in8> Yagisan: note - I did not set this up (full disclosure)
<TheMafia> in8, you mean there is a way to avoid messing up your windows system :)
<Yagisan> TheMafia: No livecd atm, ogra would like to make one for dapper (next release)
<in8> HAHA
<TheMafia> Yagisan, thanks, I will check back soon, any expected dates on the next release?
* Yagisan is not actually a dev - I just do some ltsp work and tech support here
<Yagisan> TheMafia: It releases same time as Ubuntu main release,
<Yagisan> TheMafia: usually October and April are release months
<TheMafia> thanks
<Yagisan> in8: so, what tipped you off to me being in Oz ?
<in8> when you ran off i did a whois (is that bad irc form?, sorry) when you said it was 12:45am to confirm my maths - saw the .au domain
<in8> Im in NY
<Yagisan> Cool, I do whois lookups on interesting people too :)
<in8> I think there is a way to script a message to yourself when you're whois'd but Im an IRC newbie...
<Yagisan> in8: I'm a bigger newbie at irc - I just fire up gaim and have only learned the /me command
<Yagisan> in8: only having something faster then dialup for a few months may be the cause of that
<in8> Yagisan: Im using xchat on OS X but highly recommend it
<Yagisan> in8: I didn't really like xchat, I do like having all protocols I use on the one client though
<in8> Yeah, I use gaim when on Linux too.
<in8> is there a list of all the software avail in EDUbuntu?
<Yagisan> in8: no, it's several thousand packages
<Yagisan> in8: if you mean key packages
<Yagisan> in8: it *should* be highlighted on the wiki
<Yagisan> in8: just fire up synaptic, or if you like terminal based, aptitude and browse the huge list
<spacey> in8, same software as available in ubuntu
<spacey> helps if you add universe repository
<Yagisan> in8: you may need a net connection for some apps in main, and for all of universe and multivesrse
<Yagisan> *multiverse
<in8> it boggles my mind how schools could still be paying for Microsoft when there's enough open source free stuff to run a small nation
<Yagisan> in8: It's called "vendor lock-in"
<in8> The Microsoft guys show up at the teacher conferences, but I've never seen a linux kiosk at one.
<in8> (Im talking about shows where new technologies / products / books are shown and teachers can attend and browse
<in8> also, the person who runs the computers at a school probably has to have some kind of piece of paper certificate to get the job
<in8> MCSE
<spacey> thats where i come in :P
<spacey> we migrate schools from windows to edubuntu :P
<spacey> at least thats our goal
<in8> and the parents are probably afraid that kids will learn the 'wrong' software
<Yagisan> brb
<spacey> just started since edubuntu is quite new
<in8> spacey: cool! where are you?
<spacey> the netherlands:)
<in8> ah :(
<spacey> i don't mind going abroad:P
<in8> too progressive for the evil empire
<spacey> its quite a pain to migrate it btw, but we are finishing up our reference project and seems really promising
<spacey> we can deploy it fairly quick in the future 
<spacey> same for businesses
<in8> is there really any *migration* of data? what data, if any, gets migrated?
<spacey> sure
<in8> or is it just replacement of OS
<spacey> documents, e-mail
<in8> ah
<in8> I was thinking the kids programs 
<spacey> and we currently create a mixed environment
<spacey> well there are some kids programs
<spacey> and we fix a few with wine, and the rest is lost
<spacey> too bad:P
<in8> I run a mixed environment - I have migrated some of the servers to linux 
<spacey> they just use a lot of programs that the teachers bought themselves for 20 euro at the local bookstore
<spacey> migrating profiles from ADS to samba was a bit of a pain
<spacey> but we succeeded
<in8> That has me stopped 
<in8> maybe its worth flying you over :)
<spacey> :D
<spacey> would be cool :P
<spacey> you live in USA i assume?
<in8> My company is not going to do that just yet though - end of cycle is next year
<in8> yeah
<in8> New York
<spacey> ah :)
<spacey> end of cycle of ?
<spacey> the software licenses or something?
<in8> they expect to get a certain number of years out of the software investment
<in8> before upgrades / changes
<spacey> ah yeah
<spacey> well next year is fine :P
<spacey> were still finishing this up and finetuning our skills regarding migration at this point
<in8> I will be able to pitch changes to the DHCP / DNS servers next year sometime
<spacey> We had to migrate the ADS because its so tightly knitted to dhcp/dns 
<in8> right now we're only doing database (oracle), cvs, and web servers on linux
<spacey> and we needed those on linux
<spacey> for the thin clients
<in8> makes sense
<spacey> and you can't just turn dhcp off on the ADS machine
<spacey> hell breaks lose
<in8> we have some show stoppers there though - CAD software we use (SolidWorks) is only windows I think
<spacey> yeah, well you can keep those users on windows
<spacey> its not a problem
<spacey> just replace there office software and such with OO.o
<in8> solidworks integrates to Microsoft Office unfortunately
<in8> theres a lot of that
<spacey> and they we do it, users get the same files wether they log in to the ubuntu terminal server or on the windows network
<spacey> nasty
<in8> My first experience with ubuntu was quite good though
<spacey> well guess you'll keep a few windows users or your net
<spacey> but at least you can switch serverside completely
<spacey> and clients where wanted
<in8> seems possible
<spacey> thats how we do it now
<in8> is your government using Windows? 
<spacey> yup
<in8> us too
<spacey> although i heard some stories of a few towns switching, but its not widely spread
<in8> one state (massachusetts) has recently mandated open standard for docs
<in8> then microsoft came out with an open standard announcement
<in8> but of course its their standard
<spacey> tricky bastards
<in8> gotta run - breakfast calls - nice talking with you all
<spacey> see you :)
<Elsan> I'm thinking of installing Linux on my aunt's old computer(ALWAYS gets LOTS of spyware for some reason) instead of Windows. They have a 4 year old kid, would EduBuntu be a good idea?
<Yagisan> Elsan: workstation install should be ok, 4 is a little younger then the target audience, but it should be ok
<Elsan> It's primarily for work and internet use  but I think it could be useful later
<Yagisan> Elsan: no worries, edubuntu is ubuntu + education apps
<Elsan> Ok. Anyway, I'll just download "ubuntu-desktop"
<Elsan> Does GNOME run well on an old computer also? It ran Windows 2000. I don't think KDE can fit for sure.
<Yagisan> Elsan: more ram helps more then cpu speed
<Yagisan> 256MB+ is ideal
<Elsan> Thanks. Do you know if the applications are available in french?
<Yagisan> Elsan: A lot should be translated, when installing, pick french as the default language
<Yagisan> and whatever has french translations should work
<Elsan> Ok, thanks!
<Elsan> If it doesn't have enough RAM for Gnome, I'll just install xubuntu, I'm a little familiar with it.
<Yagisan> Elsan: your welcome
<Yagisan> Elsan: Ubuntu doesn't install on anything less then 64MB
<Yagisan> I tried
<Yagisan> on a 64MB box is is slow (constant swapping)
<Yagisan> s/is is/it is
<Elsan> It runs Windows 2000, so it should be okay.
<Yagisan> 128MB was better
<Elsan> Edubuntu looks really cool
<Elsan> I like the look
<Elsan> Should I install with the "workstation" entry?
<Elsan> LTSP is for classroom use?
<Yagisan> yes, for a single desktop install
<Yagisan> ltsp sets up extra things not needed for a single edubuntu desktop
<Elsan> Yagisan: Would it be the same if I just installed Ubuntu from my normal CD and then install "edubuntu-desktop"?
<Elsan> Same as "workstation".
<spacey> AFAIK yes
<Elsan> AFAIK?
<mugroar> as far as i know
<ogra> yes :) workstation is the same as ubuntu+edubuntu-desktop
<Yagisan> Elsan: ys
<Yagisan> yes
* Yagisan waves at ogra
<Elsan> Ok, then I will use my Ubuntu cd. Thanks.
* ogra waves back
<Elsan> Would LTSP be useful for only 2 computers?
* ogra had a nice talk about edubuntu yesterday ... lots of interest ...
<Yagisan> Elsan: make sure it's a breezy cd, and you have a net connection working
<Yagisan> Elsan: I could be, I have 3 working clients off my server
<Yagisan> s/I/It
<Elsan> I will install it on one computer for now. Thanks.
<Yagisan> Elsan: was 5 clients, but I had some rain damage :(
<Elsan> :(
<Elsan> brb
<Yagisan> ogra: how was the talk ?
<ogra> it was ok ... i'm not really used to talk in german :)
<mugroar> i would like to add an ubuntu/edubuntu install to a computer that currently has debian (and grub) installed. Do i have to split / make new partitions manualyl before or can i just throw in the installer cd
<Yagisan> ogra: did you see edubuntu on slashdot ?
<Yagisan> mugroar: what version debian ?
<ogra> yup ... i wonder if it was an outcome of yesterday ... 
<mugroar> Yagisan: cat /etc/debian_version  says 3.1
<Yagisan> mugroar: you could upgrade from some versions of debian to ubuntu
<mugroar> Yagisan: i want debian and ubuntu peacefully coexist and show up in the grub boot loader
<Yagisan> mugroar: ok, need to carve out a chunk of space for it then.
<mugroar> using parted i guess?
<Yagisan> mugroar: I don't know, I always set my systems up with lvm and just add and remove space with that
<ogra> http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/elt2005/?g2_page=2&g2_GALLERYSID=c504231f9c2b3182f27c9f7383b71d4c
<ogra> ^^^ pics from the talk
<Yagisan> ogra: you're not used to speaking in german ?
<mugroar> Yagisan: ok, thanks, maybe it would be nice to have that option included in the installer, to split an existing partition, to make it easier if possible
<spacey> you grew a beard :o
<ogra> Yagisan, not really ... i'm easier finding the right words n english while holind talks ... i have to think about the right german transaltion all the time ... to used to englih words at work *g*
<Yagisan> mugroar: I don't have any say on installer, I'm just a freelance guy that does support, and sends patches (+new bugs) for ltsp
<Elsan> Yagisan: Where do you live to have your computer damaged by rain?
<Yagisan> Elsan: Top floor of the apartment block. We had some *really* bad wether in Sydney a few days ago
<Elsan> Ok.
<Yagisan> I had rain *horizonally* through the windows
<Elsan> :O
<Yagisan> and water came out of the powerpoints
* ogra remembers the rain when he wa in sydney ...
<Yagisan> I took pictures with my phone
* Yagisan thinks it's more like the hurricanes I used to experience when I lived on the Gold Coast
<Elsan> Thank you for your help. I think Ubuntu will work much better for them since it won't have spyware and they're able to do the same things as in Windows. I think it will also be easier to learn computers for my cousin.
<Yagisan> Elsan: It's a nice system, my wife has no troubles with it
<Yagisan> Elsan: and she had never used a *NIX system until I set her system up
<ogra> mugroar, afaik the partition resize feature actually *is* in the installer (at least in breezy
<ogra> )
<Elsan> I will let them try it on their old desktop and if they like it, I can always install it on their primary comp(laptop).
* Yagisan hasn't installed breezy
* Yagisan installed hoary and dist-upgraded
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Elsan> Ubuntu works so well, I don't have Windows installed and only run it in VMware for my VB.NET classes.
<Elsan> hi
<Lord_Athur> Elsan, 
<Lord_Athur> is vmware free?
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: no
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: they do have a "player" app, that doesn't cost money
<ogra> the player is free (as free beer) 
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: it can be "massaged" into working similar to the normal version
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: details in the forums somewhere
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: but depening on what you want, qemu may work
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: or bochs (but that is slow)
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> I'm installing qemu
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> what's the name of the application that allows me to use GAMBAS with more options?
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: if qemu doesn't work, vmware do do a 30day trial. Wish it was free though (gpl sense rather then dollar sense)
<Lord_Athur> there must be an application for each graphical enviroment
<Lord_Athur> ap ok Yagisan thanks 
<Lord_Athur> :D
* ogra shudders by the mentioning of gambas
<Lord_Athur> shudders?
<Lord_Athur> what does the word shudders mean?
<ogra> shudder~= shvier ...
<ogra> *shiver
<Yagisan> gambas, isn't that vb for linux ?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> sort of
<Lord_Athur> Yagisan: I was a windows programer, and I used VB
<Lord_Athur> now with edubuntu I can make applications
<Lord_Athur> using gambas
<Lord_Athur> but I need to install other applications first
<mugroar> Lord_Athur: i just bought a linux magazine yesterday that has "Realbasic under Linux instead of Visual Basic under Windows" on the cover
<ogra> eeek
<ogra> realbasic is really evil
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: gambas is in ubuntu
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: It's in universe
<Lord_Athur> but I need aditional tools for make good programs
<Lord_Athur> more controls
<Lord_Athur> and I read that each graphical enviroment has its own.
<ogra> you cant just open the sourcecode of realbasic in a normal editor ... it only opens in the realbasic editor ... (binary sourcecode ....)
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: I see a gambas-gb-qt in universe, it is a qt (kde) windows toolkit
<Yagisan> ogra: that reminds me of gwbasic
<ogra> yup, its quite similar ...
<Lord_Athur> qm
<Lord_Athur> gwbasic
<Lord_Athur> I'm installing wine
<Lord_Athur> I'll try gwbasic & xwine when aptitude finishes
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: no, no gwbasic
<Lord_Athur> pq?
<Lord_Athur> why?
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: gwbasic is from M$DOS 4 and earlier
<ogra> nobody could use your apps in ubuntu/edubuntu
<Lord_Athur> a?
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: I was commenting it also used a binary format for source code
<Lord_Athur> ogra, If I make a program with gambas, will the edubuntu user be able to use it?
<ogra> Lord_Athur, yes, but we wouldnt be able to ship it, since gambas will never be supported in ubuntu/edubuntu ... if you want to write aps the we could ship, use python ...
<Lord_Athur> why edubuntu/ubuntu support gambas?
<ogra> gambas would be ok for universe thoug, realbasic or gwbasic wouldnt even be possible for universe
<Lord_Athur> why edubuntu/ubuntu do not support gambas?
<ogra> because we would need a main developer from ubuntu to care for it, nobody will want to do that ... 
<ogra> it will stay in universe ...
<ogra> so if the language itself is in universe, you cant put an app using it to main (the shipped part)
<Lord_Athur> but why wouldn't nobody do that?
<ogra> because nobody in ubuntu does anything with basic ...
<ogra> python is the language used everywhere in ubuntu 
<Lord_Athur> ap ok
<Lord_Athur> but can be there a distro using the basic code?
<ogra> you could make a own derivative distro and include gambas in it ... 
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: It can be used, but not in "main". This isn't necessarily a bad thing
<ogra> i think guadalinex has gambas included, their management apps are written in gambas
<Lord_Athur> 
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> and they are based on ubuntu afaik
<spacey> and its spanish right?
<Lord_Athur> :D
<ogra> ye
<ogra> s
<spacey> so good for Lord_Athur 
<Lord_Athur> spacey, don't you like the Spanish language?
<Lord_Athur> jajaja
<spacey> Lord_Athur, actually i want to learn it soon
<Lord_Athur> ap ok
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: Ubuntu just does not have the man-power to devote to supporting not as common software in "main", eg gambas
<Lord_Athur> then it'd be better to support anyone talking in the language, really?
<Lord_Athur> ok Yagisan 
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: universe has so very good support (even I fixed universe bugs)
<Lord_Athur> then Yagisan what distro should I use?
<ogra> edubuntu is also avaliable in spanish... as in 89 other languages :)
<Lord_Athur> Yagisan,  for help in it
<ogra> else mhz wouldnt push it this hard ;)
<Lord_Athur> Ogra I use ubuntu/edubuntu in spanish
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: I can only suggest what I did. Try a few, and pick the 1 or 2 you like best
<ogra> you see :)
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: I like Debian and Ubuntu, but Ubuntu had a easier community to get into, and had security support for my arch
<Lord_Athur> then guadalinux must be one for download free like ubuntu(and all the other), really?
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: so I ended up picking Ubuntu
<ogra> Lord_Athur, its nothing wrong in writing apps in gambas if it suits you best, but i would be very sad if you produce something rally cool and we couldnt include it because of that ...
<ogra> thats why i pointed it out ....
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> I'm trying to learn all the programs for make all type of applications
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: If the app you write is in C, C++, python or perl, and is really cool, it could end up in main
<ogra> (and on the CD)
<Lord_Athur> :D
<ogra> ;)
<Lord_Athur> ogra, 
<Lord_Athur> did you write in a wiki page the steps followed for you to make edubuntu?
<Lord_Athur> I'd like to learn how to make a distro
<Lord_Athur> maybe I'll be able to have my own one
* Yagisan starts copying notes down, looks forward to an impromptu wanna-build tutorial from ogra :-P
<ogra> that wouldnt help you much, since i develop insider ubuntu and use our infrastructure thats not public available, but there is a good HOWTO how to customize the CD (both, live and install)
<ogra> s/insider/inside/
<ogra> i.e. how to change the set of included packages etc ...
<Lord_Athur> of this way maybe I will be allowed to help more in edubuntu
<Lord_Athur> yes
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallCDCustomizationHowTo
<Yagisan> night all. I'll leave myself logged in until my isp kicks me.
<Lord_Athur> a?
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
<ogra> night Yagisan 
<Lord_Athur> I cannot understand all
<Lord_Athur> :S
<Lord_Athur> i've to go
<Lord_Athur> I see you later
<ogra> bye
<Lord_Athur> bye
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> hi everyone
<Lord_Athur> ogra, where can I find information about how to make my own distro?
<spacey> maybe you should start it slowly
<spacey> at learn how to package software first
<spacey> i think that is a basic skill
<spacey> for making your own distro
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> but can you answer me?
<spacey> you don't have an howto on making your own distro
<spacey> you just combine different things
<spacey> just learn how to package
<spacey> after you have done that set up your own repository
<spacey> and then you can also make you own install cd
<crimsun> Lord_Athur: there's excellent documentation on the Debian Web site for starters
<Lord_Athur> thanks crimsun 
<crimsun> (presuming you wish to base it on Debian)
<Lord_Athur> debian can be a good distro as base system
<hendrik_> hi all
<hendrik_> i have a thin client boot problem
<crimsun> 'lo
<hendrik_> the ethernet card has an Asix AX88140 chip
<hendrik_> it uses the tulip driver
<hendrik_> it works on a 10 Mbs hub in a test setup
<hendrik_> it also boots halfway on 100 Mbs switch
<hendrik_> then it sets the media type to full-duplex and goes silent
<hendrik_> the tulip website says i can force it using "insmod tulip.o options=13" or something
<hendrik_> to set the media type to MII 100 base Tx
<hendrik_> where would i put such a command to be executed by some clients?
<crimsun> on boot?
<hendrik_> well yes, i don't get to a terminal or anything
<crimsun> echo "options tulip options=13" | sudo tee -a /etc/modprobe.d/tulip
<hendrik_> do i do this on the server?
<hendrik_> i should add that i am very new to linux
<crimsun> on the machine that contains the hardware activated by the tulip driver
<hendrik_> ok but how do i get to talk to that machine cos its still booting?
<crimsun> eh?
<crimsun> you would type that at the terminal of the machine containing the tulip card
<crimsun> (once you log in)
<hendrik_> i would like to, but the machine boots over the network...
<crimsun> hmm, I see
<hendrik_> when the machine freezes, it seems to be executing /scripts/nfstop
<hendrik_> sorry /scripts/nfs-top
<crimsun> it looks like you'd need to modify lts.conf
<crimsun> let's see if it allows module parameters
<crimsun> ah
<crimsun> in lts.conf, MODULE??? = "tulip.ko options=13"
<crimsun> where MODULE??? is the syntax given the number
<hendrik_> lts.conf is in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc ?
<hendrik_> does edubuntu create it or should i?
<crimsun> I don't know precisely where it is, since I haven't mucked with it
<hendrik_> a very basic question: how do i search for lts.conf from the terminal?
<crimsun> find / -name 'lts.conf'
<crimsun> I'm guessing it'll be in /etc
<hendrik_> ok i only found it here: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts.conf
<crimsun> that's odd, there should be a package with it in /usr/share/doc/
<hendrik_> it seems everything to do with ltsp on edubuntu server is under /opt/ltsp/i386
<crimsun> for conffiles? interesting. Example conffiles should be in the package documentation. Oh well, I suppose the actual conffile is located elsewhere.
<hendrik_> i wouldn't know where it should be
<crimsun> no, that's fine. If it exists there, use it.
<hendrik_> if you say MODULE??? does it mean eg MODULE_01 ?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> (hence three question marks)
<hendrik_> how do i find out what the ??? should become?
<hendrik_> or do i load the module tulip ?
<hendrik_> ok i think i see
<hendrik_> sure it's tulip.ko or is it only tulip.o?
<crimsun> .ko
<crimsun> .o is the old module suffix
<hendrik_> aha
<hendrik_> so i want to limit this to only some thin clients
<hendrik_> do i need to give them static ip addresses?
<crimsun> that I don't know; check in #ltsp
<crimsun> (no, you can use dhcp, too)
<hendrik_> so maybe MAC addresses, cos i need to identify them some way
<hendrik_> i am sitting at my test server now, but am not at the school
<hendrik_> i will only be able to test this tomorrow
<hendrik_> thanks for the help, crimsun, this was my first ever IRC session
<crimsun> np
<crimsun> sorry I can't help you out fully
<hendrik_> well at least i know where to start
#edubuntu 2005-12-10
<thomas_> greets
<thomas_> anyone here ?  I just installed this distro for the kids and I have some questions
<blue-frog> ask
<thomas_> i see that moodle is supposed to be installed by default. here do i find it ?
<thomas_> wher do i find it ?
<ogra> it isnt, the system is prepared for it, moodle is in universe, install it with synaptic
<ogra> it had a bug that prevented it from entering the CD
<ogra> (but it will enter the next release in the default install)
<ogra> did you read http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes ?
<thomas_> nope. this is my fist graphical linux. always run command only
<thomas_> whats synaptic ?
<ogra> its in the System->Administration menu
<ogra> your package management
<thomas_> ah
<thomas_> gui to apt-get ?
<thomas_> i want to make this as easy as posible. i want to break the kids from $MS before it's too late 
<ogra> use synaptic, enable the universe repository and install moodle with a doubleclick (http://wiki.edubuntu.org/SynapticHowto)
<ogra> hrm
* ogra is off for the night
<jclinton> hi all
<jclinton> how do i lock down the edubuntu desktop?
<mparise> does anyone have a good howto on setting up thinclients?  My server is up and running
<euthydemus> will we see a ppc version of edubuntu soon?
<spacey> euthydemus, server or client?
<spacey> mparise, did you check the wiki
<mparise> spacey, i did
<mparise> maybe i missed it
<mparise> i've reading the wiki all afternoon though
<spacey> hmm ok
<spacey> you have some specific questions?
<spacey> anyway i really have to go to sleep now,
<spacey> goodnight
<spacey> i'll be here tomorrow
<mhz> hi you all
<toothpick> What is the name of the grading software?
<zakame> hey all
<JaneW> could someone please reply to the slashdot thing and mention LTSp, they all seem to have missed that, and think it's *just* a different desktop package...
<JaneW> highvoltage: PING
<JaneW> highvoltage: since when are you on a personal e-mailing basis with Linus!? ;)
* JaneW is suitably impressed
<highvoltage> JaneW: very>>>busy/\/\/-and()distracted**PONG***
<highvoltage> JaneW: just got your email with the bmp's (ouch!)
<highvoltage> JaneW: not quite what we're looking for ;)
<JaneW> highvoltage: nod, not sure what to do with that, and too busy to think about it atm...
<highvoltage> JaneW: linus is cool, hey? i think it's nice that he want to contribute directly to edubuntu
<JaneW> highvoltage: sure, I agree, I hope ogra likes the tool
<highvoltage> JaneW: don't worry, i'll reply to the bmp guy tomorroe
<highvoltage> JaneW: i think it's likely that ogra will rewrite it in python :)
<JaneW> Linus was very self-deprecating baout the tool though ;)
<highvoltage> i think on some level, he *wants* ogra to rewrite it in python ;)
<highvoltage> linus said that if we had such a tool in edubuntu, he'd install it on his computer for his daughter.
<highvoltage> now, that would be real cool, if Linus ran edubuntu.
<ogra> huh ? 
<ajmitch_> hehe
<highvoltage> i'm going to push him to do that, we can get that slashdotted too ;)
<ajmitch_> hi ogra :)
<ogra> erm, what did i miss ? linus sent a tool to slashdot ? 
* ogra didnt follow the thread since yesterday morning
<JaneW> highvoltage: indeed
<highvoltage> ogra: i think i forwarded to you privately?
<highvoltage> ogra: i'll send it again
<JaneW> ogra: see mail from highvoltage 
<ogra> highvoltage, you mean the tracker tool ? 
<JaneW> re tracker tool
<JaneW> yes
<ogra> ah
<ogra> LOL
<ogra> i didnt notice at all from whom it was 
<highvoltage> yes
<ogra> :-D
<highvoltage> hehe :)
<highvoltage> sorry, just send it again.
* JaneW too at first... 
<ajmitch_> ogra: care to show it? :)
<ogra> i have looked at the code and was just impressed by the cleaness :)
<JaneW> heh
<JaneW> ogra: good to hear it
* highvoltage looked at the code and was confused by it
<ogra> i'm thinking about how to integrate it into s-c-p
<ajmitch_> forward it to your boss ;)
<highvoltage> does RMS have kids? <grin>
<ogra> so we can show the data directly aside the userlist :)
<JaneW> ogra: good idea
<JaneW> highvoltage: I like the way you think...
<ogra> ok, prioritized now *g*
<JaneW> heh
<ajmitch_> highvoltage: RMS? can you imagine what his kids would turn out like?
<highvoltage> ogra: thank you <bug grin>
<highvoltage> erm... big grin :)
<ogra> hehe
<JaneW> picture the edubuntu packaging 'Edubuntu - as used by Linus Torvald's children'
<highvoltage> ajmitch_: they'll be born with beards
<ajmitch_> I appreciate many of RMS' views, but he's still a nutter
<highvoltage> JaneW: lol!
<highvoltage> RMS is cool. i support him 100%
<ajmitch_> highvoltage: sure, but he's still nuts ;)
<highvoltage> ajmitch_: so am i, and ~ 8 billion other people ;)
* ajmitch_ spotted photos of ogra starting to grow his RMS beard ;)
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/tracker.tar.gz
<ogra> for the intrested ones ^^^
<JaneW> highvoltage: 8 Billion?
<juliux> ogra, morning
<ogra> moin juliux 
<juliux> ogra, in the next days markus krger will contact you, he will hack on the ltspmanager
<ogra> yay
<juliux> ogra, in which language is the ltspmanager written?
<ogra> the worst part (dhcp handling) parsing the lts.conf should be straight forward
<JaneW> highvoltage:  According to estimates published by the United States Census Bureau, the world population in June 2005 was ~6,450,000,000
<ogra> python
<JaneW> highvoltage: so don't exagerate :P
<ogra> juliux, all tools i write from scratch are python/gtk
<juliux> ogra, ok
<juliux> ogra, i know there some gnome.
<juliux> gnome-de people who have a lot of time
<JaneW> highvoltage: unless you are counting the ppl with multiple personalities ;)
<juliux> ogra, sorry i have to go to university, i have a examen
<ogra> we should also find some python-qt people to hack up a kde version ... there is some community interest for a kedubuntu
<highvoltage> JaneW: ok ;)
<ogra> juliux, good luck
<juliux> ogra, thanks
<Xamusk> anyone here used ubuntu as an ltsp server/client?
<ogra_> Xamusk: nearly everyone does .... edubuntu is built around it ;)
<Xamusk> good, then maybe someone can help me :)
<ogra_> ask away
<Xamusk> although I'm using ubuntu
<ogra_> the implementation is the same
<Xamusk> in client boot-time, something is renaming my xorg.conf to xorg.conf.YYYYMMDDHHmm, and replacing it with another xorg.conf... it looks like it's ignoring lts.conf, so my mouse won't work (the xorg.conf that appears is configured with a PS2 mouse)
<zakame> heya all :)
<ogra> Xamusk, do you use a ps2 mouse ? 
<ogra> some people have issues with the module not being loaded
<Xamusk> ogra, in the server, but a serial mouse in the client... I've modified the client /etc/modules to include sermouse (and it loads, as seen on lsmod)
<Xamusk> however, in one of the messages in boot-time, it says something like "Loading /dev/psaux common for all mice"
<ogra> hmm, serial mice are a small problem we still have to solve ... the xorg setup is based on autodetection on boot of the thin client (as you noted already) 
<Xamusk> yeah
<ogra> the lts.conf doesnt support all classic ltsp setiings yet
<Xamusk> and mdetect somehow detects both /dev/psaux and /dev/ttyS0, but gives psaux priority
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLtsConfParams
<ogra> see there
<Xamusk> ogra, http://pastebin.com/449460 this is my lts.conf
<Xamusk> as you can see, I've tried _many_ ways to get the mouse pointed to /dev/ttyS0
<ogra> yup, but the ltsp implementation doesnt read it yet
<Xamusk> ah, so it's a ltsp problem... :-(
<Xamusk> is it ubuntu-specific or generic to all ltsp implementations?
<ogra> its an age problem ;) our ltsp in breezy is very young ... there is a patch ...
<ogra> its solved (untested) in dapper
<ogra> let me look if i can find it in my bzr branch
* Xamusk trembles to think about reinstalling all his server...
<Xamusk> impelemtation...?
<ogra> hah, got it
<ogra> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5418
<ogra> add the lines with the + in front to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup
<ogra> and omit the X_COLOR_DEPTH one, it wont work with breezy
<Xamusk> ok
<ogra> that should work ...
<Xamusk> should I put it _after_ the "fi"?
<Xamusk> I'm not very used to diffs and patches
<ogra> yes, after the fi
<Xamusk> thanks, I'll boot the client
<ogra> yup, tra it :)
<ogra> *try
<Xamusk> didn't work
<ogra> can you log in on the client at the console ? 
<Xamusk> ogra, yes
<ogra> whats in your xorg.conf ? 
<ogra> didnt it catch up the setting ? 
<Xamusk> the mouse is pointing to /dev/input/mice
<ogra> hrm ....
<Xamusk> nope
<ogra> can you paster the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup from the server ? 
<Xamusk> yes
<Xamusk> http://pastebin.com/449501
<Xamusk> in boot, looks like the lines gave me six lines of output, 3 sets of 2 lines saying "0 value set \n 0 true"
<Xamusk> the additions are in lines 123-126
<ogra> hmm ...
<ogra> the patch looks good ...
<ogra> try to wipe the lts.conf and leave only the options you just added (plus the SERVER if its not the one you boot from)
<ogra> and only the DEFAULT section
<ogra> USE_XFS, LOCAL_APPS and X_MOUSE_RESOLUTION isnt supported and XSERVER is auto by default anyway
<ogra> probably you must use "" around Y for X_MOUSE_EMULATE3BTN too
<ogra> the getltsconf is very strict about the format afaik
<Xamusk> hmmm
<Xamusk> I didn't use because the examples I found didn't use too, but if you're saying that ubuntu isn't using the latest version of ltsp, then that could not apply
<Xamusk> ok, booting again
<Yagisan> evening all
<ogra> Xamusk, ubuntu *is* the latest version of ltsp ... its newer than the one from ltsp.org ;) 
<ogra> thats why it doesnt support all options yet ;)
<Yagisan> heh
<Yagisan> docs written first ogra ? then the new implantation started :)
<Xamusk> o_O
<Xamusk> brb
<Xamusk> strange
<Xamusk> it says it couldn't find sermouse.ko (that I specified in lts.conf)
<Yagisan> brb .oO(/me wonders why both his kids are night owls, and have chosen this exact moment to call for attention)
<ogra> Xamusk, show me your new lts.conf
<Xamusk> ogra, http://pastebin.com/449515
<ogra> i'm pretty sure you need to omit the .ko ending btw
<ogra> drop the s41 and s4 sections too... doesnt look like you'll need them ...
<jsgotangco> hi guys
<ogra> hey jsgotangco 
<Xamusk> ogra, well... I think it doesn't matter that much, as the sermouse module is being loaded, according to lsmod
<jsgotangco> hey ogra how are you?
<ogra> jsgotangco, fine ...
<ogra> jsgotangco, linus made his first contribution to edubuntu on the weekend ;) 
<Xamusk> huh, I forgot that
<ogra> so he can use it for his daughter
<jsgotangco> oh? what did he do?
* jsgotangco was out of the country over the weekend
<ogra> a little c tool that logs out a specified user after a certain amount of time
<ogra> i'm about to write a pygtk gui for it and a little panel applet that pops into the notification area 
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> so he actually installed it that's awesome....
<ogra> JaneW already asked for user feedback from hime ;)
<ogra> -e
<jsgotangco> wonder if he's subscribed to the list
<jsgotangco> i got in contact with the release manager of firefox
<jsgotangco> very energetic guy
<ogra> he isnt, i'd have noticed that :)
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> it would be nice to have him on the next edubuntu summit =)
<ogra> but i didnt notice the tool was from him, so i'm probably to blind ...
<ogra> highvoltage forwarded linus mail to me ... and i just looked suspicious over the code ... i realized that is was from linus when he told me today and i looked at it again *g*
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> i was already impressed by the cleaness of the code :)
<jsgotangco> congratulations ogra, you're making tsunamis not waves already =)
<ogra> hehe ....
<ogra> yes, i'm pretty proud about that ...
<jsgotangco> yes, you should be :)
<jsgotangco> my seoul trip was awesome as well
<zakame> ogra: w00t
<ogra> i had a edubuntu workshop and a talk on the weekend ... there was much interest
<jsgotangco> ogra, it was my first time speaking in a conference with a translator...
<jsgotangco> it was interesting...
<jsgotangco> even our roundtable was translated real time
<ogra> wow
<jsgotangco> sure at the start the translators verified keywords like what is "edubuntu", "Dapper", etc..
<zakame> wow, a la UN :)
<ogra> hehe
<jsgotangco> zakame, yeah with the audience in those ear thingies
<Xamusk> ogra, no advancement so far
<ogra> :(
<jsgotangco> asa gave me a spool of firefox stickers heh
<jsgotangco> and erich (xandros) gave me 3 boxes of their product
<zakame> ooh
<Yagisan> re
<ogra> Xamusk, sorry i'm out of ideas ... :/
<Xamusk> the only thing I have left is to learn sed and make a script that changes xorg.conf _after_ it's overwritten by the init scripts
<Xamusk> os download the dapper isos
<Xamusk> or
<ogra> you could supply a complete xorg.conf
<Xamusk> how? I tried but no success
<ogra> i havent tested dapper with serial mice yet ... 
<ogra> (i lack HW here ...)
<Xamusk> oh, I have a lot of OLD computers... that's why I want ltsp... the computers are so old that, even having HDs, they are too slow to run OpenOffice
* Yagisan hasn't used serial mice in years, not even on my p2/233 or K6 boxes
<Yagisan> Xamusk: a relatively cheap hardware solution is a pci usb card if no usb, and a usb mouse
<zakame> er is there a plan to have live cds for edubuntu? ulinskie was asking it earlier to me...
<ogra> Xamusk, comment out the "dpkg-reconfigure -fnoninteractive -pcritical $xserver_package"
<ogra> ... line in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup
<Yagisan> zakame: I was asked that too yesterday several times
<ogra> then your xorg.conf in the chroot will be used ...
<Yagisan> zakame: IIRC yes there are plans, but currently it doesn't fit
<zakame> Yagisan: i see, thanks :)
<ogra> Xamusk, but make sure th exorgconf in the chroot is right first
<Xamusk> ogra, ok
<Yagisan> zakame: considering how big it is, I'd suggest a live dvd (those 650MB cds are tiny)
<ogra> normally the XF86CONFIG_FILE parameter in lts.conf should work as well
<Xamusk> ogra, yes, it _should_
<zakame> Yagisan: hehe, indeed... though dvds aren't common yet in my locale :/
<ogra> but i'm not sure it applies if xorg is used ... thats rather for xfree86 setups
<Xamusk> but it didn't when I tried...
<Xamusk> indeed
<ogra> did yu set it in colons ? 
<Xamusk> yes
<Yagisan> zakame: I wonder if it would fit on a 700MB or 800MB cd ?
<ogra>     if [ -n "$XF86CONFIG_FILE" ] ; then
<ogra>         # User has specified a custom config
<ogra>         cp "$XF86CONFIG_FILE" "$xserver_config"
<ogra> hmm, the code indicates that it should be used in any case
<ogra> where did you store the file ? 
<ogra> it must be in the chroot 
<ogra> the client doesnt see the server filesystem ...
<Xamusk> ogra, I just typed XF86CONFIG_FILE = "xorg.conf"
<zakame> Yagisan: hm depends on what we'd like to fit in it :)
<ogra> Xamusk, you'll need a path, relative to the chroot ...
<Xamusk> ogra, actually I read somewhere that the path is relative to /etc/X11/ in the chroot
<ogra> i.e. /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/my_xorg.conf becomes XF86CONFIG_FILE = "etc/my_xorg.conf"
<ogra> err
<ogra>  XF86CONFIG_FILE = "/etc/my_xorg.conf"
<ogra> nope it isnt ... according to th code above
<Xamusk> oops
<Xamusk> I read it wrongly
<ogra> its just a cp ... and drops all autodetection
<Xamusk> ok, trying again
<Xamusk> I wish I could read code that easy
<blue-frog> ogra, following the advise you gave me after having alook at my toolbox script I am trying to correct it. One thing though I don't understand. How should conf files (smb, ldap..) should be touched pls?
<ogra> blue-frog, not at all ...
<ogra> all the tools you use there are packaged in ubuntu, the right way woul be to have a debconf option in the package to create at specified config
<blue-frog> ah ty can't do it then...
<Xamusk> what would a lot of "NETDEV WATCHDOG" messages mean... it says "transmit timed out", but in the next line it says that eth0 link is up
<ogra> hmm, sounds like a NIC driver issue
<Yagisan> Xamusk: tends to indocate ACPI errors
<Xamusk> hmmm
<Yagisan> s/indocate/indicate
* Yagisan speaks from experience
<Xamusk> acpi... don't know if a pc that old has acpi... maybe something is loading (incorrectly) the acpi drivers
<Yagisan> Xamusk: pass "acpi=off pci=noacpi" to the kernel boot paramters for the old box
<Yagisan> Xamusk: old boxes (like mine) often have enough acpi to make eg Win98 happy, but it is broken
<ogra> append it in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg/default to the kernel line
<Xamusk> ok
<Yagisan> ogra: can we do that on a per box config ?
<Xamusk> Yagisan, yes
<Xamusk> Yagisan, the pxelinux tries to load a lot of files before falling down to default
<ogra> Yagisan, not to my knowledge ... (patched gratefully accepted indeed ;) )
<Yagisan> Xamusk: thanks, just wanted to double check
<Xamusk> Yagisan, when loading in the client, it says which file it's tring to get (putting the MAC in the filename may do it)
<Xamusk> ugh... that's what happens when one try to manual-edit too much in xorg.conf
<Xamusk> where's the xf86cfg in a case like this
<ogra> Xamusk, just remove the line again, let it autogenerate and scp the file from the console to the server ...
<ogra> then edit the mouse settings
<Xamusk> ogra, hehehe... too troublesome... I'll try to tweak it again... That's just because I tried some generic options and changed some names
<ogra> too troublesome ? i guess thats the easiest way :)
<Xamusk> but the best part is: the correct xorg.conf is there
<Xamusk> the problem seems to be in the Screen section... I changed the Device name in only one place
<Xamusk> ah
<Xamusk> 4 minutes to boot a client is the true slow part
<Yagisan> Xamusk: 4!! I take 2~3 on my p2/233
<Xamusk> yeah :(
<Yagisan> Xamusk: what is your box ? (congested network ?)
<Xamusk> it looks like there are a lot of misconfigs
<Xamusk> not really... I think
<Xamusk> but maybe then it is
<Xamusk> though this box is better than the previous I was testing, that took almost 8 minutes
<ogra> woah ...
* Yagisan notes dappers ltsp is still at 0.59
<ogra> thats heavy 
<ogra> yup, mdz does the updates of the package ...
<ogra> he had no time to inspect all my patches yet
<ogra> should be updated during this week
<ogra> at least he told me he would look over the patches during the week
<Yagisan> Xamusk: Are you on a co-ax based network, or slower ? (PLIP :-P)
<Yagisan> ogra: I though he was handing that over to you ?
<ogra> Xamusk, its one of my main goals for dapper to get the booting donw to less than a minute ...
<ogra> Yagisan, he can give his baby away it seems ...
<ogra> *cant
<Xamusk> Yagisan, on a what?
<Xamusk> note: I'm not a pro admin
<Yagisan> Xamusk: Co-axial cable (was that called 10base2 ? looks like tv cable)
<ogra> do you have multiple cables you plug into a switch  ? or just one cable that runs past all te PCs ?
<Yagisan> Xamusk: haven't used it in 7 years or so, but it was pretty slow (rather prone to rfi interference and collisions)
<Xamusk> Yagisan, I thought those were fast (if not with a lot of sequential hosts)... but no, I'm in a plain ethernet... only don't know if the the client card is 10 or 100 mbps
<Xamusk> ogra, hehehe... not _that_ anti-pro admin
<Xamusk> ogra, just didn't understand the term
<Xamusk> ogra, THANK YOU A LOT for making this work
<ogra> i have the bootime down to 1 min in dapper currently ... but thats with this client : http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/200014.html?id=AowNeHn7
<jsgotangco> see you guys later i still feel a bit dazed
<ogra> ciao jsgotangco 
<Xamusk> now I have 20 mins before lunch to see how long OO.o takes to launch
<ogra> Xamusk, youre welcome ,i learned a lot during supporting you ;)
<ogra> i.e. we have to revisit the serial mouse thingie ;)
<Xamusk> I have leaned a lot too... (didn't know about the ltsp-client-setup file)
<Xamusk> that preseed syntax looks a lot like the preseed files I had to use when I remastered a debian cd
<ogra> yes, its the same
<ogra> i have to find out why the mouse settings dont get respected ...
<Xamusk> only it's a lot more powerful
<Yagisan> ogra: If you'd like to send me one of those, I'll just get my address details for you :-P
<ogra> but first i have to get a working X server at all ... doent work in dapper yet
<Xamusk> ogra, as you said before, they are not implemented yet
<ogra> Yagisan, i only have the one ... donated from jim mc quillian (the inventor of ltsp)
<ogra> Xamusk, they should work ... thats what bothers me ... there must be a prob in xorg itself 
<Yagisan> ogra: thought so - that's his company right ?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i still have to make my list forcanonical, they will pay for another bunch, so i can test at least all the machines http://www.disklessworkstations.com offers
<Yagisan> ogra: what you need for testing is something old and decrepit, with busted acpi and other interesting features :)
<ogra> yes, i have a pI 133 here for etherboot testing, but havent tested yet ...
<Yagisan> ogra: So, got any spare 486s or Pentium 1s ?
<ogra> and another PII 233
<ogra> no 486 anymore though ...
<ogra> but since we say the minimum requirement is a PCI bus, i doubt i'll care for 486
<ogra> they only had PCI in the last quater of their lifecycle
* Yagisan broke my 486 transferring it to a new case, I cracked a diode (my 486 had a pci bus, with a 4MB S3 Virge/DX video card)
<Xamusk> wow! 4MB!
<Xamusk> when I had a 486 it only had a 1MB Trident
<ogra> phew ... that gives small scrensizes :)
<ogra> *screen
<Xamusk> hehehe
<Xamusk> I remember (in that time I used rwindows) that it pained in that place only to find a video driver that would get 256 colors
<Yagisan> Xamusk: I was hunting for some voodoo 2's for the board before it broke - that would have been nice
<Yagisan> I kept that box going for years, usb upgrades, disk upgrades
<Xamusk> well... In my country, I haven't seen PCI-E boards yet
<ogra> i know some brazilians using pci-e
<ogra> but comercially in their companys ...
<Xamusk> well... those must have been imported in quite a high price
<Xamusk> by the way, how do you know I'm brazillian
<Xamusk> ?
<ogra> http://www.async.com.br/
<ogra> your ip tells me ;)
<Xamusk> hehehehe
<Xamusk> thought that the second after
<Xamusk> thank you again guys, I gotta leave now... if I have an update in my status, I'll let you know
<Oge_> how should i mount users homedirectories, localted in win2003 dc. i want to separate linux and windows homedirectories because it's ugly when user browses own homedir from windows's "my documents" and there are .bashrc etc
<Oge_> i mean, pam_mount or how?
<Yagisan> night all
<zakame> me too, gudnyt Yagisan ! :D
<juliux> re
<mhz> hi all
<mhz> ogra: hi, mon. how are you doing?
<ogra> fine, thanks ...
<mhz> ogra: as I rm -rf my /home a couple of weeks ago, I lost my gpg stuff.
<ogra> and you dont have a backup ? 
<mhz> Is it just a matter of resigning the Code?
<juliux> hi mhz 
<ogra> its a matter of getting your new key signed again ...
<mhz> juliux man, hi
<mhz> ogra: okis
<ogra> and then sign the CoC indeed
<mhz> okis
<mhz> ogra: juliux: i normally (the last 2 years
<mhz> ogra: juliux: i normally (the last 2 years) use WebMail interfaces,  no local clients.
<mhz> Any client you suggest I use?
<juliux> mhz, evolution ?
<mhz> (also good for GPG)
<ogra> evolution 
<mhz> juliux: hmm, even if I do not use GNOME?
<mhz> I mean, would that force me to install XY MB of libraries?
<ogra> yup
<juliux> mhz, evolution
<mhz> hmmm *SIGHS*
<ogra> but eolution is surely the easiest to use ... 
<juliux> mhz, an evolution roks
<juliux> rocks
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra> you could try sylpheed or balsa ...
<mhz> you 2 gnome people! :D
<ogra> evo brings stuff like a calendar with it ... if you dont need that, the othe two might be an option
<mhz> hmm, ogra of course, an AddreeBook + Calendar + ToDo stuff is nice when it's all interlinked to email :)
<ogra> yup
<mhz> do you know which is lighter and able to export to xml and/or .vcf?
<mhz> dont tell me... evolution!
<mhz> :D
<ogra> evo can export vcs ... dunno about th eothers
<ogra> err, vcf
<mhz> ok.
<juliux> ogra, what do you think about special menus for usergroups? 
<ogra> heh, you were not in my talk ;)
<mhz> Maybe, if I am gonna endup installing additional libs (idea I dont like), I should also try KDE
<mhz> ogra: how did it go with your talk?
<juliux> ogra, no
<juliux> ogra, i have to do the booth stuff
<juliux> ogra, what is your plan? tell me
<ogra> juliux, in dapper +1 i want to have menu profiles depending on the selected theme (age) and the teacher shall be able to select a profile for the class
<juliux> ogra, but isn't it better if you have that for every user?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> to much maintenance work 
<mhz> indeed
<juliux> ogra, because so you can say now he is in the 5th class he will have theme 1 and  menu 1, and 3 years laeter he is in the 8th class and he will have theme 2 and menu 2
<ogra> have a look at dappers gcompris ... it has a nice class management interface
<ogra> 3 years later we'll have some completely different setups ...
<juliux> ogra, ok
<mhz> juliux: I am wikiing an invitation work for LUG's or anyone interested in printing out and hand in to guests.
<juliux> at first i will install dapper edubuntu
<ogra> mhz, the talk was very good ...
<ogra> juliux, wait until flight 2 is out ...
<ogra> there is no dapper Cd yet
<juliux> ogra, sure?
<ogra> sue 
<mhz> ogra: excellent! more fans of breezy? (not asking about the electric appliances :D)
<juliux> ogra, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/ ?
<ogra> juliux, i build it, so i should know ;)
<ogra> look at the report.html file ;)
<ogra> it wont work
<juliux> ok
<ogra> this will get solved this week .... before it is solved we wont have flight 2
<ogra> if you want to go on with testing, keep the iso and rsync it in the future ... rsyncing normally takes only 10-20 min (german DSL) instead of 2h
<juliux> ogra, i need for a complet cd iso 6-8min
<ogra> ah, i forgot, you have the uni :)
<juliux> hehe
<mhz> juliux and ogra, please see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInvitationArtwork . Feedback is appreciated
<mhz> re
<Lord_Athur> hi
<mhz> hey Lord_Athur 
<Lord_Athur> dime
<mhz> voy saliendo a dejar a mi hija la jardin y vuelvo en 30-40 mins tops.
<mhz> Lord_Athur: also, we have #edubuntu-es :D
<johnpd> Hi all... Just installed the edubuntu on a spare server at school... how do I go about connecting the thin client after I've ran the dhcp server? Also is it possible not to use the DHCP and use one I have already. Thanks
<ogra> if its a linux dhcp server and you can specify "filename" and "rootpath" directives then sure, i don know about win dhcp servers ...
<ogra> johnpd, did you read http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes ?
<johnpd> Yes but there is limited info there
<johnpd> that does not answer my question about conflicting DHCP servers, or how the net card boots the system
<ogra> thats enough to set up the default installation... inded it doesnt cover your case
<johnpd> I'm trying an enclosed setup in an hour to just see how it looks
<ogra> edubuntu is a one classroom release, so it covers enough for that ... the booting happens through PXE 
<johnpd> PXE oo I know a little about that, but I couldn't find any notes that said how it worked. Thanks 
<ogra> there are dhcp options you can set if yu run more than one server 
<johnpd> I could do with a floppy boot process in case the bios does not support net boot, is there one available?
<ogra> you can generate it very easy at http://rom-o-matic.net/5.4.1/
<ogra> dont forget to check the PXE options ...
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<ogra> ^^there is some detailed info
<johnpd> I have yet to get to grips with the formatting of Wiki's... So used to text files
<ogra> for your dhcpd issue, have a look at the next-server directive ... i think its also documented in the ltsp.org wiki 
<johnpd>  next-server directive is something i've not heard of, but I'll read up on it
<ogra> while the preferred method should always be to have only one dhcp server in your net ... 
<ogra> it saves you maintenance work ...
<johnpd> is it possible to not have dhcp but to just have PXE boot from LTSP and windows providing the DHCP?
<ogra> if you have the possibility to set filename and rootpath and a range for the thin clients on your existing server, i'd always choose this option ...
<ogra> i dont know anything about windows dhcp ...
<johnpd> SO i could set a static range? I have one already in school I could use
<johnpd> 10.134.139.128 onwards is static
<ogra> anther option is to have two NICs in the server and server the thin clients separately over the second NIC (probably the easiest)
<johnpd> I see , that could have problems later on if I wanted more than 1 room on different switches working with the system
<ogra> the only important thing is that you can tell the clients where to get their kernel from (filename under linux) and where to mount the rootpath
<ogra> if your win dhcp supports that, all should be fine ...
<johnpd> Ok so if my win dhcp supports filename and rootpath then im ok.... i'd have 2 check
<johnpd> looks like im going to go down the 1 room switch approach with 2 net cards
<johnpd> Though in the future I'd like a site wide LTSP of edubuntu
<ogra> cool :)
<johnpd> Licenses cost a lot and the science department already know about Linux especially for making LaTeX stuff
<johnpd> (this is a secondary school/college)
<johnpd> we are in Staffordshire , England
<ogra> that sounds really promising :)
<johnpd> About 3 years ago I looked into LTSP
<johnpd> but having read about Edubuntu I thought I'd go for it
<johnpd> We have a Cisco lab which I am going to use it in, as they could use terminal to try out some of their tests on the routers via serial interface
<ogra> it carries a completely new implementation of ltsp which ltsp.org is adopting too as their next version
<johnpd> that's encouraging for edubuntu, they must have worked hard on ltsp
<ogra> yes, we did ... but it still has its drawbacks that we're currently solving
<ogra> (it boots slow, the login manager is quite ugly, no sound support yet etc)
<johnpd> Thats a positive thing in my book, sound cards in schools only encourage music downloading
<ogra> s/boots/777777boots the clients
<ogra> oops ...
<ogra> s/boots/boots the clients/
<ogra> true ...
<johnpd> How do you make user accounts for the thin clients?
<ogra> but we'll have sound by default in the next release (which you can optionally disable indeed)
<ogra> currently only on the server with the user and groups tool ...
<johnpd> ahhh thats ok
<ogra> we have no ldap solution yet ...
<ogra> that will have to wait until october ...
<johnpd> If it did Edubuntu would kick arse
<johnpd> So thats your expected release for a beta or a full version?
<ogra> yes, but for the next release we are only allowed to do polishing work, it will be supported for 5 years, so the new improvements have to wait for the next release
<ogra> we release every 6 months a full version ...
<johnpd> we could always make a startup script that mounts the users home directory?
<ogra> dapper, the current development branch will release in april
<ogra> sure
<johnpd> on our windows network that would be \\server1\username$
<ogra> dapper+1 will release in october ...
<spacey> you can use ldap on edubuntu already ofcourse
<spacey> but its not default
<spacey> but if you know what your doing, its quite easy
<spacey> at least we use it :P
<ogra> yes, some people do, we just dont offer tools that re integrated nicely yet
<johnpd> I guess most Edubuntu systems would be running standalone classes and no LDAP connection
<ogra> spacey, have you heard that linus contributs to edubuntu now ? 
<spacey> ogra, i read over it quickly but not detailed
<spacey> what did he contribute?
<vmarks> we have an ldap connection actually.
<ogra> johnpd, my big target is to once be able to supply a whole school environment including municipalities ...
<ogra> spacey, a little tool he uses to log out his daughter after 1h ... i'll package it and wrap a gui around it ... with a little timer for the notification area
<johnpd> Thats a nice thing to know you want to get that far, as the schools have been looking all over for a system like this
<spacey> ogra, thats cute :)
<ogra> yup
<johnpd> vmarks how is your system configured , i.e ebubuntu with windows dhcp?
<spacey> did he write it in python?:P
<ogra> nope, its c
<spacey> ah ok :P
<ogra> the fun stuff is, that i didnt notice that it was from him at all :p
<ogra> i just took a glance over the text and looked at the attached tgz ...
<ogra> and was astonished about the clean code 
<spacey> :P
<ogra> this morning highvoltage asked me if i got linus mail ... and i didnt get what he was talking about ...
<ogra> until i looked again *g*
<spacey> yeah i think i read that part 
<spacey> quite cool :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> jane alreadys asked fro a user feedback report ;)
<mhz_BBS> re
<spacey> hehe
<spacey> i'm going to cook some delicious food for my girlfriend :P see you later 
<ogra> having that one, i doubt we have to fear lack of contributors ;)
<ogra> have fun :)
<spacey> next linus stops kernel dev and focus on edubuntu ;p
<ogra> lol
<johnpd> lol
<ogra> hopefully not, he'd get me out of business :)
<johnpd> or is it funny, he might just do that!
<spacey> "i liked to colours"
<ogra> ... and i like my job ;)
<johnpd> Ok Ogra thanks for your help, I'm going to give it a go in a minute
<johnpd> hopefully my knowledge of nix' comes back to me in time
<ogra> johnpd, great ... just come back if there are questions
<johnpd> I've got my SAMS 1981 copy of Unix unleased on the shelf
<johnpd> ok l8rs all... thanks again
<mhz> ogra: I would like to create some specs for EdubuntuStudyContent and I tried to use LP for that, unsucessfully. Isn't LP for that?
<ogra> sure it is
<mhz> hmm, I saw no "CreateSpecs" link or button :)
* mhz joining #lp
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
<ogra> there is one indeed
<ogra> you need to assign it to the distro
<mhz> aaahhhhhh
<mhz> I was doing it from the Team page :( duh!
<eniac1111> hi all
<mhz> hi
<_eniac_> please, help!
<_eniac_> from where i can download driver for
<mhz> ?
<_eniac_> pci match64 VT video card
<_eniac_> for windows
<_eniac_> 95
<ogra> no idea ...
<mhz> _eniac_: oooops, not a single clue
<ogra> i'd guess from ati
<_eniac_> this is video card from 1997
<ogra> but i doubt they support 95
<_eniac_> oh, no!
<ogra> 95 is long dead
<_eniac_> this is for my teacher!
<ogra> as 98 is
<_eniac_> my teacher had old motherboard, processor, dvd, v-card...
<_eniac_> and he
<_eniac_> guived me
<_eniac_> evdb
<_eniac_> swrg
<_eniac_> sy
<_eniac_> sorry
<_eniac_> i have no batteries forkeyboard...
<_eniac_> and he guived me co acemble one old pc
<_eniac_> writing machine
<_eniac_> wint printer...
<_eniac_> with
<_eniac_> the parameters is: 150mhz, 40mb ram and 200 mb hdd.
<_eniac_> super technology!
<_eniac_> :-)
<_eniac_> can i install ubuntu or other linux in this pc?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> not ubuntu ...
<ogra> that requires more than 200MB if you want X and gui ... even with a small one ...
<ogra> look at damn small linux but that will require a lot of manual work for egtting the printer to work etc
<_eniac_> i foun one distro for old machines
<_eniac_> I have found
<_eniac_> named delilinux
<_eniac_> http://www.delilinux.de/deli1.png
<_eniac_> YES!!!!
<_eniac_> The trick is, that DeLi Linux uses only "lightweight" alternative software. If you are looking for the newest KDE, GNOME or Mozilla, DeLi Linux will not make you happy. The test computer is a 486 laptop with 16 MB RAM, and all apps which comes with DeLi Linux are running smoothly.
<johnpd> Hi again, thanks Ogra it's working now with my internal network, it's a beast!
<johnpd> I've found a website for my dhcp windows query at http://unattended.sourceforge.net/pxe-win2k.html which tells me how to setup a linux bootstrap etc
<ogra> cool :)
<johnpd> I could not believe how easy it was
<johnpd> at most of times I don't know what i'm doing
<johnpd> hehe i just guess and i either break it or bodge it
<ogra> heh
<johnpd> so i read there is a bug with a timeout, but i've not noticed it
<johnpd> timeout on the ltsp
<ogra> yes, it should be fixed ...
<johnpd> oh good. Well If i manage to get the windows 2k dhcp thingy working I'll post it on the wiki
<johnpd> are there any beta bolt on guis that might help with administration?
<ogra> that'd be very nice  :)
<ogra> not yet ... there is something in pre alpha state i havent packaged y<et
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<johnpd> Oh I'll have a play on a test bed with that then
<ogra> but for normal system tasks you can use all the tools in the System menu
<johnpd> Yeh I found the users/group part to be straight forward
<johnpd> in unix where do you put the startup scripts for logon?
<ogra> you could put them in /etc/skel
<johnpd> I would like a systemwide logon map folder script
<johnpd> I guess I should be using google for this and not asking you
<johnpd> :)
<johnpd> slightly lazy of me
<ogra>  /etc/skel is fine for systemwide stuff
<ogra> if you dont forget you did put it there :)
<johnpd> Yeh it's gonna be fine for the shared folder stuff and printer maps
<johnpd> Can you add software to the server LTSP and it show up on the thin clients ? I have not tested that
<ogra> everything you dd to the server will appear on the clients 
<johnpd> Ohh wikid
<johnpd> so my server is like my build area...
<bob13> is there a power pc version?
<bob13> anyone?
<johnpd> We have 10 macs at school, that would be interesting
<ogra> bob13, nope
<bob13> orga: will they come out with one?
<ogra> bob13, not for breezy, i didnt find enough testers for the last release ...
<bob13> to bad. A lot of schools uses apple
<bob13> a lot of imacs
<ogra> i just ordered a iMac to at least be able to do the install tests this time
<johnpd> If I like edubuntu I will donate some money your way then
<johnpd> from school funds of course
<ogra> we discovered a heavy bug at release day, so i had to pull back the ppc version
<bob13> ogra: so you might come out witha ppc version later. 
<johnpd> is there a way to donate paypal money to the developers? {then I better run, I want to get back to playing}
<ogra> no...
<ogra> i *will*
<ogra> not *might* ;)
<bob13> LOL
<ogra> johnpd, hmm, good question, i'll have to talk to my manager about that if she's here tomorrow ;)
<bob13> ok I hope you do come out with a ppc version. I do know school here in california would love to see a ppc version
<johnpd> you'd have thought the governments would be supporting projects like this
<johnpd> well if you find out email me at jdooley@maryhill-high.staffs.sch.uk
<ogra> johnpd, in fact i'm fulltime employed ubuntu developer so i dont really know, but i guess we have a possibility to donate ...
<ogra> i will :)
<johnpd> ok, catch you l8rs
<johnpd> c u bob13
<ogra> ciao :)
<bob13> ogra: is your websites done in plone?
<ogra> the ubuntu one ? 
<ogra> not sure, it used to be plone ...
<bob13> well actually all of them
<bob13> looks like plone
<ogra> i know we changed a bunch ...
<ogra> but i'm not working on website stuff, so i'm not sure ...
<bob13> ok.. cool project. I hope to see a ppc version in the future.  
<mhz> ogra: I still try imagine what benfits will LP bring to teams we create there? Could gimme some ideas?
<spacey> LP?
<mhz> jelkner: hi
<mhz> spacey: LaunchPad
<mhz> :)
<jelkner> and how are you mhz?
<mhz> jelkner: very thx, Mr. Elkner
<jelkner> i never wrote back to you about the language issue
<mhz> indeed
<jelkner> the reason is that edubuntu doesn't let you choose languages yet
<jelkner> you do that in gdm
<jelkner> and edubuntu doesn't use gdm
<mhz> hmmmmmm?
<jelkner> when you are loggin in, you select the language you want
<mhz> oh, you wanted to do that per client basis?
<jelkner> absolutely
<mhz> duh!
<jelkner> that's the point
<jelkner> we are in a multi-lingual environment
<jelkner> i want each user to pick their own language
<mhz> I never got that Part! sorry. However, the server I use is meant for spanish speakersonly, so I did change it.
<jelkner> anyway, oliver said it will be fixed by dapper
<mhz> jelkner: yup, dapper
<jelkner> i have a question for anyone here
<mhz> I aplologyze for missing that essential part
<jelkner> i'm trying to do a new ubuntu install on a laptop
<jelkner> mhz: no, thanks for the info, it works great on stand alone machines
<jelkner> and now i know what to do for dapper
<mhz> hehe, yeah
<jelkner> anyway, i'm installing on a toshiba satellite m45-s269
<mhz> okis
<jelkner> it installs fine
<mhz> cool
<jelkner> but i can't get networking to work
<jelkner> at all
<mhz> (in my laptops, too)
<mhz> ?
<mhz> sure?
<jelkner> the devices are recognized
<jelkner> on board wireless and nic
<jelkner> but when i try to configure them i can't get an address (using dhcp)
<jelkner> if i assign a static one it appear to be set but i can't ping past myself
<mhz> have you tried crossover cable between 2 machines?
<jelkner> any ideas
<jelkner> these folks are new to ubuntu and willing to say bye to windozs, but they need networking!
<mhz> of course!
<jelkner> any ideas?
<mhz> jelkner: you are installing ubuntu or edubuntu?
<jelkner> ubuntu
<jelkner> i tried plugging in a pcmica card that i know works, but it did not detect it
<mhz> and your are configuring NIC's via GUI or commandline?
<jelkner> i tried both
<mhz> yeah, but how did you try to assign static IP via command line"?
<jelkner> ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.150
<jelkner> my hunch is it is that bug related to addresses for pcmcia devices
<jelkner> although the fact that both devices show up has me perplexed
<mhz> oh, all NIC's you are trying are PCMCIA?
<jelkner> to tell you the truth, i don't know
<mhz> hehehe
<jelkner> are on-board devices like that pcmcia on a laptop?
<bluefrog-10> did you look at /etc/network/interfaces if it seems right in there?
<jelkner> hold on...
<mhz> my laptops with ubuntu, all have NIC built-in.
<jelkner> this is built-in too
<mhz> jelkner: however, everytime I had trouble with networking, it has been:  /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/network/interfaces
<jelkner> /etc/network/interfaces has only:
<jelkner> mapping hotplug
<jelkner>   script grep
<jelkner>   map eth0
<jelkner> that's it
<mhz> try this...
<jelkner> ok
<mhz> ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.150 up
<mhz> route add -net default gw 192.168.0.XYZ netmask 255.255.255.0 metric 1
<mhz> do change XYZ :D
<jelkner> do you literally want me to type XYZ?
<mhz> then ping the gw address you specified
<mhz> nope :D
<jelkner> oh .1 ?
<jelkner> lol
<mhz> do change XYZ :D
<mhz> jejejeje
<mhz> and I HOPE you have no other machine with 192.168.0.150 
<jelkner> yeah, there is something wrong with the module
<jelkner> i can ping myself, but not the gateway
<jelkner> wireless is having the same problem
<jelkner> i'm going to file a bugzilla report
<jelkner> but i would like to find a solution
<jelkner> no, there is no other machine with 192.168.0.150
<jelkner> and dhcp should have worked if the device was working properly
<mhz> indeed.
<jelkner> what package would this be?
<mhz> indeed.i had problems with the 'maping' default config
<mhz> so I just edited /interfaces
<jelkner> how?
<jelkner> should i be doing some kind of lsmod and modprobe stuff?
<jelkner> i've done that before, but i forget what to do
<mhz> jelkner: if you say your built-in NIC is working, no need to load modules at all
<jelkner> it isn't working
<jelkner> it is visible to the system, but it is not working
<jelkner> i can't get any networking at all
<jelkner> ogra: oliver, how goes it?
<ogra> a bit stressed ... to much work tonight
<jelkner> sorry to hear that
<jelkner> i started a dapper edubuntu server today
<jelkner> i couldn't install from today's iso
<ogra> you cant yet 
<ogra> i told you so ...
<ogra> if flight 2 is announced it will be installable, as i said last meeting
<jelkner> ok
<jelkner> but i did this:
<jelkner> 1. install breezy server
<jelkner> 2. dist-upgrade to dapper
<jelkner> 3. apt-get install edubuntu-server
<mhz> jelkner: I am /quering ya
<jelkner> mhz: i can see you, but you can't see me
<jelkner> can you try again, i just identified myself to nickserv
* mhz seeing jelkner :)
<jelkner> mhz: you still here?
<tsurc> hi, anyone know if dapper will have local disk access for ltsp?
<jelkner> tsurc: yes, it will
<jelkner> usb, floppy, and cdrom
<ogra> tsurc, its planned, but i cant promise it at this point of development
<jelkner> ogra: really? we may not have local devise access?
<ogra> jelkner, i cant promise it, as i said in the last meeting
<ogra> it relies on time of others where i have no influence ...
<jelkner> ok, i'll bring it up on wednesday
<ogra> i can promise faster boot, lower mem usage, usplash and sound
<ogra> that wont help
<jelkner> what will help
<tsurc> fantastic, I work at a school in uk. we are using ltsp with deb at the mo
<jelkner> ?
<mhz> jelkner: yup
<jelkner> local devices are extremely important
<ogra> nad extremely complicated and time consuming to implement
<jelkner> mhz: how do we start a chat?
<mhz> type /query mynick
<tsurc> I am kinda a newbie really, but I really wana help out. esp with LTSP intigration What could I do?
<ogra> jelkner, i'll have a meeting with mdz and scott balneaves wher we'll discuss the task, i can give more info afterwards, but its not sure mdz will have time before the next edubuntu meeting
<jelkner> ogra: ok, i'll stay tuned
<jelkner> i just need to know as soon as possible so i can let folks down gently (and figure out what else to do) in the labs we have already setup
<jelkner> i've been telling them they will have a way to save data by april
<jelkner> thanks
<ogra> jelkner, having a spec doesnt mean something is implement ...
<jelkner> i understand
<ogra> see the many breezy specs that werent done
<jelkner> but like i said in montreal, without a way to save data, we really don't have edubuntu
<ogra> its a matter of time ...
<jelkner> i know you can't do more than can be done
<ogra> yes, but i have deadlines i have to match, if its not in by end of feb, it wont be in
<ogra> and i wont promise stuf i havent yet locally ... all i listed above is running here ...
<tsurc> Does anyone know if there is any way that I could say monitor what a sutudent is doing, and if they are misbehaving log them out forcefully?
<ogra> tsurc, i started a tool called student-control-panel, its in dapper
<ogra> sinceits 100% python you could use the beta version from dapper, search at packages.ubuntu.com
<tsurc> we have a problem esp' at lunch when the kids can come and do homework in the labs, problem is most are on swf and java games. thrashes the gutts out the servers
<ogra> it shows the students process list and enables you to log them out
<tsurc> is it in breezy-backports?
<tsurc> that sound great
<ogra> nope, ts not ready enough yet for a backport
<ogra> i want at least all basic functions in or omit te bttons for the stuff that doesnt work before asking for a backport
<ogra> an its nt high riority currently
<tsurc> would it work on deb?
<ogra> if you have the ltsp version we use, yes
<ogra> i doubt it works with clssic ltsp
<tsurc> thanks for that, where can i find more info. (Got to get up early in the morn')
<ogra> more info about student-control-panel ? edubuntu ? ubuntu ltsp ?
<tsurc> all of the above, esp student-control-panel
<tsurc> know about the wiki.edbuntu.org
<ogra> i have a bzr archive of it if yo want to contribute or know contributors
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/
<ogra> if you bzr branch it and can put your branch online, i'll greatfully merge every contribution ... else, there is no docu yet
<ogra> a outline of what it shall be one day is on the wiki, see TeachersPet
<tsurc> yeh pleased to. thanks again.. not really a programmer, know a few. More of a docu type.
<ogra> thats fine too :)
<tsurc> every little counts though
<tsurc> gtg
<ogra> i'd like to have the processlist and ability to shut down processes done, as well as a vnc option and remote execution of apps ...
<ogra> beyond what is there now ...
<tsurc> sounds good
<ogra> but as i said, not highest priority
<ogra> ok, sleep well :)
<tsurc> bye
<ogra> ciao
<tsurc> u2
<reinaldo> mhz, tas?
<reinaldo> mhz, una consulta
<reinaldo> ping mhz
#edubuntu 2005-12-11
<mhz> reinaldo: ahora si
<mhz> holas
<mhz> reinaldo: #edubuntu-es
<mhz> reinaldo: pong
<reinaldo> puf
<reinaldo> hehehe
<reinaldo> oye. no kashe el mail de gabriel. (el principio)
<reinaldo> solo lei algo de que si queria aumentar mis conocimientos de propiedad eintelectual
<reinaldo> donde es a que hora
<reinaldo> y cuanto cuesta?
<mhz> reinaldo: please visit #edubuntu-es for spanish
<reinaldo> haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<reinaldo> oka
* mhz_dinner BBS
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> hey ogra UI found a problem with the font
<Lord_Athur> I saw espaol instead of espaol, and I was talking with a ubuntu user
<Lord_Athur> can this be possible? I know that there can be problems with a windows user & a linuxer
<ogra> try:
<ogra> echo $LANG
<Lord_Athur> $LANG
<Lord_Athur> 
<Lord_Athur> where do I put the word?
<ogra> just copy and pate it to a terminal window, hit enter and pate the output here
<ogra> *paste
<Lord_Athur> look at:
<Lord_Athur> NAOMY:/home/alejandro#  $LANG
<Lord_Athur> bash: es_CL: command not found
<Lord_Athur> NAOMY:/home/alejandro#
<ogra> for me it looks like this:
<ogra> ogra@honk:~/devel/ltsp/main $ echo $LANG
<ogra> de_DE.UTF-8
<ogra> you forgot echo
<Lord_Athur> jajaja
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> NAOMY:/home/alejandro# echo $LANG
<Lord_Athur> es_CL
<Lord_Athur> NAOMY:/home/alejandro#
<ogra> thats wrong ...
<ogra> it should have an UTF-8 suffix 
<ogra> else the encoding doesnt work 
<Lord_Athur> remember I'm using debian today
<ogra> and you get things like espaol instead of espaol
<ogra> then debians UTF-8 handling is broken it seems
<Lord_Athur> mmm
<Lord_Athur> :(
<Lord_Athur> can I do anything to put the UFT-8 in order?
<ogra> there is a command to do it in debian, but i forgot which one ...
<Lord_Athur> mmm
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> dpkg-reconfigure loacles 
<ogra> would be a blind guess ...
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> thanks
<ogra> err locales
<Lord_Athur> I did not found the cl_es locales
<ogra> es_cl ? 
<Lord_Athur> mmm
<Lord_Athur> maybe it was es_cl instead of cl_es
<Lord_Athur> xD
<ogra> first the lang, then the country :)
<ogra> i.e. for german there is de_DE, de_AT, de_CH
<Lord_Athur> what local may be my default?
<Lord_Athur> es_cl or es_cl.utf-8?
<ogra> es_CL.UTF-8 should be it, but i'm not sure about debian
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> i looked at it 2 years ago lst time
<Lord_Athur> I put the es_cl.ut ....
<ogra> it might have changed
<Lord_Athur> not very much
<Lord_Athur> can I ask something in Spanish?
<Lord_Athur> in the Spanish channels nobody answer
<ogra> sure, but i wont understand it :)
<Lord_Athur> jajja
<Lord_Athur> what programs of "diseo" do you know?
<ogra> i could telly you if i knew what diseo is
<Lord_Athur> what programs of Graphical design  you know?
<ogra> inkscape and gimp are my favorites
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> gimp for pictures, inkscape for drawigs ... and dia for diagrams
<Lord_Athur> thanks ogra 
<ogra> youre welcome :)
<Lord_Athur> can this programs read files made in windows?
<ogra> depends in which format you saved there
<ogra> i.e. inkscape can open .ai saved files and gimp opens .psd
<Lord_Athur> thanks for all your help
<ogra> np :)
<Lord_Athur> ogra, you must know a lot of distros
<Lord_Athur> what's the best?
<ogra> lol
<Lord_Athur> 
<ogra> you ask *me* 
<Lord_Athur> and...?
<ogra> the one i build indeed ... or its mother :)
<ogra> i.e. ubuntu/edubuntu 
<Lord_Athur> ap ok
<ogra> i wouldnt work on it if i wouldnt think this ;)
<Lord_Athur> but what other?
<Lord_Athur> mmm
<mherweg> hi ogra ! i mailed u 2day (kmLinux)
<ogra> mherweg, hey
<Lord_Athur> you built edubuntu, this do not have to count
<ogra> i havet got time yet to look over the links
<ogra> sorry 
<ogra> Lord_Athur, debian is fine too 
<ogra> but ubuntu and al friends
<Lord_Athur> ap ok
<ogra> mherweg, i'll do it first tomorrow morning and will mailyou back ...
<ogra> somehow it seems i gave my card to too many people, i hasd a ton of mails today :)
<mherweg> no problem , i did not have any question or whish, just some infos for you
<ogra> yes, but it looks intresting, especally the home cleaner ...
<ogra> actually linus torvalds sent me a little program he uses for his daughter, asking if we can include it in edubuntu *g*
<Lord_Athur> did you answer hiim?
<mherweg> what kind of program ?
<ogra> not yet, i did test the program today ... it needs some love ...
<Lord_Athur> jajaja
<ogra> a time tracker that logs people out after a given amount of time
<ogra> but it has an awful gui ...
<ogra> i'll add a nicer gui and package it 
<ogra> and ask him for a license, its not licensed *g*
<Lord_Athur> ogra, If you need my help with edubuntu for test programs of other things, I'd like to participate
<Lord_Athur> jejeje
<ogra> yeah, i'll ask you ...
<ogra> do you have bandwith to download isos ? we'll have a test CD this week
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> a live and a install CD
<Lord_Athur> cool
<Lord_Athur> I'd like to test it in my PC
<ogra> yeah, i'll notify you if its ready ... i guess around thursday 
<ogra> there are still some packages broken http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/report.html
<Lord_Athur> have you got my e-mail address?
<ogra> i guess mhz has, no ? 
<Lord_Athur> yes
<Lord_Athur> he has got my mail
<ogra> fine then :)
<Lord_Athur> I had to leave the edubuntu ML for problems with the account of gmail
<ogra> i think i saw you subscribing to edubuntu-devel too, i'll send a mail to the list 
<ogra> oh
<ogra> i didnt see you leave
<Lord_Athur> buy I've discovered that I've got in other mail the edubuntu ML
<Lord_Athur> ogra, it is in alejandro@egiptologia.zzn.com
<ogra> ok
<Lord_Athur> hi mherweg 
<Lord_Athur> 
<ogra> i'll kepp that one ... 
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> *keep
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> hi mhz, 
<mhz> hi
<mhz> Lord_Athur: last thing I could read in my log before No web was... you asking ogra about aplications for design
<Lord_Athur> yes
<Lord_Athur> but ogra gave me the information
<mhz> okis, thx ogra
<Lord_Athur> thx???
<Lord_Athur> what does this mean?
<mhz> thanks
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> ok
<mhz> :)
<Lord_Athur> I'll have to learn English before want to work more in edubuntu
<mhz> there are many 'abreviations' for IRC
<Lord_Athur> ap ok
<mhz> no need to know more english to do that
<Lord_Athur> sth = something
<mhz> yup
<Lord_Athur> but I'd like to be a traslator
<mhz> oh, well that's different and there are 2 good schools for that inStgo.
<Lord_Athur> yes
<Lord_Athur> but I have not got money
<mhz> bumer!
<Lord_Athur> bumer?
<Lord_Athur> ogra, my edubuntu distro has any educational tools
<Lord_Athur> ogra, my debian distro has any educational tools (it's the fine)
<Lord_Athur> :D
<mhz> Lord_Athur: ogra is probably the most busy guy in this channel
<mhz> Lord_Athur: so, sometimes he has no time to answer
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> I was asking about the possible support that edubuntu can prest to other distros
<mhz> Lord_Athur: if Ubuntu can support other distros, then edubuntu may do too
<arkan0x> mhz, look this http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fujitsu-Siemens_Amilo_Pro2000
<Lord_Athur> mhz, I've to go
<Lord_Athur> good look about the edubuntu-es channel access project
<mhz> Lord_Athur: you can email edubuntu-list specifing your intentions
<Lord_Athur> and I will be waiting your answer about the edubuntu Spanich changes
<mhz> arkan0x: /me looking
<mhz> Lord_Athur: you can email edubuntu-list specifing your intentions related to translation
<Lord_Athur> mhz, I wrote the intentions in the wiki page
<mhz> where?
<Lord_Athur> do I have to write all again?
<Lord_Athur> camello
<mhz> nope
<Lord_Athur> xd
<mhz> hehe
<Lord_Athur> AlejandroLeon
<mhz> Lord_Athur: but Did you wrie a plan on trasnlating edubuntu?
<Lord_Athur> no
<Lord_Athur> :S
<Lord_Athur> hi arkan0x remember add my mail to the cdsl ML
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> mhz, will add my intentions and plains about edubuntu to the wiki page
<Lord_Athur> but now I'll go to my bed
<mhz> arkan0x: those are way too diff. boxes than mine
<mhz> Lord_Athur: okis
<Lord_Athur> bye everyone
<mhz> bye
<ogra_> ciao 
<ogra_> bah, to late
<mhz> ogra_: can I ask somethin regarding SVG ?
<ogra_> sure
<mhz> I have tried at least 10 times to print the SVG for invitations
<mhz> I always get diff results
<mhz> but same 'bug' in printing output
<mhz> any chance you could print it and tell me if you have same error
<ogra_> i have no printer around ... i can get one tomorrow
<mhz> okis, thx ogra 
<mhz> ogra: and where can I express my disapointment regarding some members not responding nor giving me any sign of taking care of my requests?
<ogra> in tCC meeting
<mhz> sure?
<ogra> in the CC meeting
<ogra> yes
<mhz> wont that be too "agressive"?
<ogra> if you are upset and it helps you ...
<mhz> 'help me'? of course not, unless they react quickly
<ogra> no, i mean if it makes you feel better ...
<mhz> ogra: I guess you understand that when it comes to doing thing, the best feel is to get things done, nothing else.
<ogra> yup
<mhz> so, yes, I'd like to express my dissapointment but not if it wont make things better
<mhz> Seveas: are you awake and running?
<ogra> 3am  ...
<ogra> unlikely
* mhz needs to solve that svg pinting prob. 
<mhz> :(
<mhz> well, i'll work on something else in the meantime
<paolob> Hi ogra
<mhz> highvoltage: hi
<highvoltage> hi mhz 
<highvoltage> howzit!
<mhz> highvoltage: are you up and running?
* mhz is glad highvoltage is always in a good mood
<highvoltage> mhz: i'm trying to wake up, more like it.
<highvoltage> mhz: seen this: http://slashdot.org/articles/05/12/05/191205.shtml?tid=131&tid=146
<mhz> highvoltage: hmm, ok. then i'll let you alone
* mhz opening tab
<highvoltage> no no no, didn't mean it that way :)
<highvoltage> i just need to get some coffee
<mhz> ehehhe, sure, just teasing you a bit
<mhz> to give hard times while sleepy :D
<mhz> how's dad's car?
<mhz> highvoltage: nice slashdot
<highvoltage> ah
<highvoltage> it's good (and it's my car, btw ;) )
<highvoltage> it had a gears problem that i fixed (very proud of my self there), but fine now.
<mhz> highvoltage: hmmm, it will always be your dad's car, the one you bought :P)
<mhz> highvoltage: you mean, YOU fixed it?
<mhz> wow!
* mhz is proud of highvoltage too
* mhz has no clue about mechanics
<mhz> highvoltage: I have not found hno73 around to let him know about the http / https issue
<mhz> and I have not written an email eihter
<highvoltage> i think hno is quite responsive, even over irc.
<highvoltage> i don't know anything about mechanics either, which is why i was so glad i could fix it :)
* highvoltage felt like big man
<highvoltage> hehe
<mhz> highvoltage: your nick came to my head today when I was visiting a Drupal site with these symbols /?node=386 
<highvoltage> my first big PC was a 386.
<mhz> highvoltage: you are a big man, already, indeed
<highvoltage> mhz: ah, stop it!
<mhz> highvoltage: if we get to use Drupal, will we have an easier way to remeber page names?
<mhz> highvoltage: I was 22 when I got my hands on a PC, and 24 when I bought one for my own use
<mhz> how old were you when you got your hands on a PC?
<highvoltage> 6. i used the neighbours zx-spectrum
<highvoltage> i learned to read while typing out BASIC out of old magazines so that i can play games :)
<highvoltage> i begged my parents for one too, but they said it's an old type of computer and they don't think it's worth while to by me one
<highvoltage> and then in 1993, when i was 10, they finally bought a 386, which was more for their business use, but i took adcantage.
<highvoltage> i had to re-install windows in the first 2 weeks we had that computer. :)
<highvoltage> (then again, i must admit that it was my fault- experimented with undelete a bit)
<mhz> hehehehe
<zakame> hi all :D
<mhz> hi zakame 
<highvoltage> hi zakame
<mhz> highvoltage: that's no fair
<zakame> hey mhz , highvoltage :)
<highvoltage> mhz: what's not?
<mhz> not fair you started when you were 6
<highvoltage> well, fwiw, i fell behind a bit recently.
<mhz> how old are you? 25?
<mhz> 23?
<highvoltage> 23.
<highvoltage> the problem is, i started stagnating a bit when i started working. i'm going to work hard at fixing that next year.
<mhz> so you have TONS of experience and typing speed compared to mine
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> well, next year i also want to start using dvorak, so that should even out the playing field a bit ;)
<mhz> I have barely 6 years of experience with computers
<highvoltage> me and my father have had many arguments.
<mhz> well, you are nuts! so it wont even a thing! :D
<highvoltage> and he always says things like he's more than double my age and has more experience than me and that i should trust his judgement
<mhz> hehehehehehehehe
<highvoltage> i feel, that there's certain lessons, that if you haven't learned them by the time you're 16
<zakame> wooo!
<highvoltage> you never will.
<highvoltage> i suppose it's the same with computers.
<mhz> no way! parents do have experience but it doesnt mean they are right
<highvoltage> there are people who have been using computers for 10 years that still don't know anything.
<highvoltage> mhz: my point exactly.
<mhz> highvoltage: I am a father to 2 kids
<mhz> please remind me those words I said in a couple of years :)
* mhz is signing CodeOfConduct (again!) because he rm -rf /home twice in 3 weeks :D
<mhz> So, yes. if you dont learn stuff by the time you turn 16, you never will :)D
<mhz> wow! everyone is waking up?
<zakame> haha
<mhz> zakame: or maybe my uptime has been too long
<jsgotangco> morning JaneW 
<zakame> hehe, probably both ;)
<jsgotangco> hey you two (mhz, zakame )
<mhz> mr. jsgotangco hi there. I hope you have started your week with lots of fun games and users requests
<zakame> heya jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> mhz, actually i just arrived yesterday from korea
<mhz> oh, yes!
<jsgotangco> mhz, im getting tired of travelling already, i might go to brisbane next week
<mhz> was it good? will we have more edubunteros?
<jsgotangco> mhz, it was a ubuntu-centric
<mhz> jsgotangco: well, I wake up and get nothing to do, so you can send me to brisbane :)
<zakame> what's in brisbane?
<jsgotangco> zakame, work
<jsgotangco> (and a redhat office)
<zakame> oooh
<highvoltage> mhz: ok, i will (remind you)
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> thx
* mhz init 0
<mhz> bye al
<mhz> all
<highvoltage> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<highvoltage> JaneW: how are you? you have been quiet lately.
<jsgotangco> hi JaneW (again)
<highvoltage> and hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey jonathan how are thing
<jsgotangco> s?
<highvoltage> things are great.
<highvoltage> everyone's moods are improving due to the upcoming summer holidays
<highvoltage> and it's having an impact on my mood too.
<jsgotangco> summer...
<jsgotangco> i just arrived from korea yesterday from -10 C to 29C in Manila and i still feel tired...
<JaneW> highvoltage: busy with ubuntu
<JaneW> highvoltage: don;t have as much time to chat ;)
<highvoltage> JaneW: aaah. Exciting stuff, eh?
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: esp the 4am meeting on Thurs ;)
<dabaR> would the ltsp mostly be used with one higher end and several lower end PCs? Is there a plan to create a live CD version?
<highvoltage> for ltsp, you only need low-end pc's for the workstations, and one powerful server for the ltsp server.
<highvoltage> increasing the cpu power on one or more thin clients won't have an effect on the other thin clients, ie. it doesn't work as a cluster of some sorts.
<dabaR> OK.
<dabaR> so as strong the server is.
<highvoltage> the specifications of the server determine how much workstations you can add, yes.
<dabaR> OK, sounds good. I wonder whether a live CD is in plan. I bet it is not high priority.
<brycer22> a live cd would be a good idea
<brycer22> you could go around schools demonstrating etc
<dabaR> but probably not a high priority, cause the edubuntu project I suppose is most popular in Africa now?
<dabaR> the ? symbolizes that I am not sure of what I said, and would like feedback.
<brycer22> it is also popular in macedonia
<brycer22> hello?
<dabaR> no, I mean, inn places that do not have lots of money for windows licences, so they just install the OS anyhow.
<brycer22> yeh
<dabaR> they dont have much of a choice, and windows shopping options with live CDs. you can always boot ubuntu, and install edubuntu-desktop, I guess.
<highvoltage> dabaR: sorry, busy with other work too ;)
<dabaR> no need to be sorry, I am also chatting with a buicnh of other people at #ubuntu.
<dabaR> but, I mean, like you said, a live CD would definitely popularize it. even as a CD that is a cool "game" for kids. they boot it, and have games, and so on.
<highvoltage> live CD is probably plausable, but LTSP running from a CD isn't really, it's too disc intensive.
<dabaR> Yeah, I am more interested like I said in giving the live edubuntu live CD to kids, their moms and dads, as an educational CD, with some cool games, drawing programms, and so on(I don't really know many programs in edubuntu.) that they can just boot into, and have a whole new operating system. Ah, yes, the joys of a live CD:)
<brycer22> Would edubuntu be suitable for preschoolers?
<konfuzed> I just sat an article on slashdot notein gthat edubuntu is excellent for ages 7 to 12
<dabaR> sure. there is fun drawing programs for them, cool games like the gcompris.
<dabaR> it is suitable for kids all ages, that can use a computer.
<highvoltage> brycer22: there are some tools that are nice for pre-schoolers, they would still need some adult supervision, imo.
<dabaR> I would say
<highvoltage> things like potato guy and gcompris are pre-school-friendly
<dabaR> off course, it is a team game, hopefully:)
<konfuzed> but my 4.6 year old daughter does like those penguin games
<brycer22> ok, because I know someone who works at a preschool with an old-ish (2001) computer, that they can't afford to buy windows for
<konfuzed> 2001 computers should have no problem running xp but linux is still better
<dabaR> GNU/Linux is better, ya.
<dabaR> and its not about the price for me, I dont pay for windows annyhow.
<dabaR> except once:(
<dabaR> you have to pay foor windows if you buy a premade computer.
<brycer22> windows is one of the things i don't pirate
<konfuzed> i give edubuntu discs to everyone who asks my assistance to find or but them a computer
<konfuzed> well for any one related to teaching and for young people
<konfuzed> others get ubuntu
<konfuzed> unless there psycology reuqires more MS Windoz looking style
<brycer22> you could write letters to local School Departments
<brycer22> or Indenpendant Schools, they aren't usually bound by 'Regulations'
<konfuzed> the they get kubuntu
<konfuzed> its seems i have a finger impedemnet tongiht
<dabaR> hehe. you know what they say. rdebale
<dabaR> or somethins
<konfuzed> variety of reasons
<konfuzed> most people are asking me because they have no or next to no budget
<konfuzed> some time ago I decided to charge people by the hour for installing windoz and locking it down to be safe on the net and putting in mozilla to secure against microsft problems and the like
<konfuzed> and tell them to come up with their own copy
<konfuzed> go find it or go buy it
<konfuzed> to install xp and do all that extra like office and other crap is waste of at least 5 hours
<konfuzed> sometimes 10 
<konfuzed> if they have stupid problems or must have software setups
<konfuzed> then if they trip over some inane software thats windoz only
* dabaR has been there:)
<konfuzed> I show them how to install it on edubuntu
<konfuzed> at worst case scenario they learn how to install win98 on ubuntu
<konfuzed> i suppose XP is it really got that bad for one die hard app
<konfuzed> s/is/it
<konfuzed> that one had to be corrected
<konfuzed> s/is/if
<konfuzed> twice even 
<dabaR> s/got/has
<dabaR> s/is/if
<dabaR> s/it/they and then the verb subject dont match so you have to go again
<konfuzed> i suppose XP, if it really got that bad for one die hard app
<konfuzed> i suppose XP, if it really got that bad, for one die hard app
<konfuzed> ok so now I can admit to taking 9 or 10 high school english course and only walking away with 4 credits
<konfuzed> ;^)
<dabaR> heh
<dabaR> and we will believe you.
<konfuzed> which is fine because now we ve just started pitching new systems  to teachers cause the school board authorized $500 bucks
<konfuzed> ea
<konfuzed> but they have to get it themselves
<konfuzed> but only if they co-ordinate themselves and actually submit the invoice and forms
<dabaR> its not too hard to get a decent system for $500, eh?
<konfuzed> not in canada
<konfuzed> I set my buddy up as a hardware retailer
<konfuzed> I can get em for less than 400 no monitor
<konfuzed> amd 64 2600 - 512ram -80gig-7.1 or better audio and gig lan with built in wild graphics
<konfuzed> gamers can then go and spend 2 to 400 on a gamer card
<konfuzed> before the teachers started askin
<konfuzed> i set up moodle to run as a conert hall with live performance events streamed in audio or video
<konfuzed> I was so pleased to see moodle available in synaptic
<dabaR> why the heck would a school need such a system?
<konfuzed> just the thing for these teachers
<konfuzed> http://moodle.org
<dabaR> I mean, wha tyou described is stronger than my main computer by several points.
<konfuzed> its compliant for use at universities
<dabaR> there is a university compliance for systems?
<konfuzed> oh well thats pretty near the bottom of what I can get for new
<konfuzed> on SCORM is a grading system in use by universities in europe
<konfuzed> and some other palces I think
<konfuzed> I could probably chop off another 50 to 75 and give them new garbage
<konfuzed> but I would like these boxes to be upgradable in 5 years
<konfuzed> so i try to get them socket 939
<konfuzed> mostly for drool factor in 3 years
<konfuzed> when dual core is a cheal upgrade
<konfuzed> ;^)
<konfuzed> well im crashin
<konfuzed> ciao
<dabaR> bye
<konfuzed> but first 
<konfuzed> go check this out http://www.bwgen.com/presets.htm
<konfuzed> I gotta get it to run in ed/ubuntu
<konfuzed> has any one come across any other applied audio harmonics for linux
<konfuzed> not music writing
<dabaR> no idea.
<konfuzed> that resonance stuff is neato
<konfuzed> nite
<dabaR> brain wave generator
<ulinskie> is Octave pre installed in edubuntu?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> its in universe, you can easily install it through synaptic
<ulinskie> thanks
<mherweg> hi all. does edubuntu contain ltsp-sound(esd) already ?
<mherweg> hi mhz. does edubuntu contain ltsp-sound(esd) already ?
<mhz> hmmm, don't know but I do know that sound issues are considered for dapper
<mhz> current 5.10 does not support sound
<mherweg> ok , thanks
<mhz> np
<mhz> mherweg: are you using edubuntu already?
<mherweg> no. i'm downloading it right now
<mhz> cool
<mherweg> did u ever think about "lessdisks" instead of ltsp ?
<mhz> what is lessdisk? 
<mhz> (that tells you i did not think of it :) )
<mhz> mherweg: the Mr. Edubuntu here is ogra 
* spacey doesnt know it either, 
<spacey> mherweg, link to project?
<mherweg> http://lessdisks.sourceforge.net/
<mhz> He did all based on what a group of people suggested him to do
<mhz> spacey: hi
<ogra> mherweg, nope
<ogra> its mentioned in the ltsp packages though ...
<spacey> mhz, morning :)
* spacey gonna try and fix up willow now
* mhz yaaawwwning
<mhz> mherweg: i dont see much activity in that project. any ideas why?
* mhz based his coment on sourceforge stats.
<ogra> mhz, its not completely inactive and you can use it as an ltsp alternative ... 
<spacey> last update june 2005
<spacey> mhz
<mhz> ogra: yup, I was reading about it. FreeGeek is very similar to what we try to do here in Chile with Tecnocimiento
<spacey> ogra, where does it differ, different chroot for the thinclient?
<mherweg> mhz: lessdisks is a one/two man show. I did use it in one project. scolelinux is thinking of using it for diskless workstations
<mherweg> i think its not so good documented as LTSP but itis much easier to integrate local apps
<spacey> ogra, does willow work for at all? :P
<mhz> mherweg: yup, June is somewhat 'not much activity', however, it seems 'hited' every day
<ogra> spacey, it works fine for me
<spacey> can you send me your willow.conf ?;/
<ogra> spacey, i use the default one ...
<ogra> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5456
<ogra> just adjusted the paths
<spacey> oh wait
<ogra> enabling the webinterface would be tricky and require a lot of pam hacking, thats hy i will drop it first place
<spacey> already got it running i think
<spacey> but last time the webinterface had some internal errors
<ogra> thats why i dont want it, the filtering works fine though ...
<ogra> and since we'll run on the server anyway, its fine with a pygtk gui
<spacey> thing is when you run it on a router and not on local edubuntu machine
<spacey> then pygtk gui is not really convienant
<ogra> we dont :)
<spacey> yeah
<spacey> but the package will be in main right
<spacey> so
<spacey> if some normal ubuntu user would try it out
<ogra> if you have the skills to set up a router, you canalso maintain squidguard
<spacey> i think it should be possible to have a working webthingy
<spacey> squidguard?
<spacey> but squid sucks :P
<ogra> i dont want to hack up pam ... 
<ogra> especially since i think its not easy to get the willow requirements in in a non intrusive way
<mhz> mherweg: so, in what env. are you planning to run Edubuntu?
<jsgotangco> good evening edubunteros =)
<spacey> ogra, what requirements are you hinting at?
<ogra> spacey, read the docs, it needs pam auth for the web interface and a fine grained user/group management
<ogra> its not my target at all
<spacey> yeah ok i read that
<spacey> but pam is not that abnormal
<ogra> we wont get it into main r on the CD i think ...
<spacey> hmm
<ogra> thats why i want to keep it as simple as possible ...
<spacey> well universe would be fine as well
<ogra> nope
<ogra> then i dont want it 
<spacey> hmm ok
<spacey> we'll i'll fiddle around with it a bit first
<ogra> i want a solution for the content filtering for this release, if we wait we can write a tool to manage squidguard as well 
<mherweg> mhz: a primary school: 1 server , 12 terminals
<mhz> mherweg: educool
<ogra> its a fine short term solution ... if you find a ubuntu compliant way for the pam stuff, fine ... but dont put to much time into it 
<ogra> we only have 6 weeks left
<mhz> mherweg: currently running LTSP?
<ogra> getting the packaging right to have a "transparent by default mode" will be time consuming enough
<spacey> yeah, actually i have no idea how your imagine that transparent by default
<mherweg> mhz_ in this school: no linux so far. in other projects: yes, many LTSP and one lessdisks
<mhz> mherweg: are you member of FreeGeek?
<mherweg> no, what's that ?
<mherweg> url ?
<mhz> mherweg: oh, i thought you were, they are a very cool org. and AFAIK, they are behind lessdisk
<mhz> http://freegeek.org/
<ogra> spacey, having a /etc/default/willow file with the setting on or off and setting the iptables rule in the initscript if ts set ... the setting in /etc/default is set by debconf, so you can dpkg-reconfigure willow to switch it on or off
<ogra> the default will be on ...
<Seveas> mhz, you were not approved yet - mako couldn't vote
<Seveas> mhz, mako would read logs and vote later, I guess he didn't do that yet so we should poke him at the CC meeting :)
<mhz> Seveas: afaik, mako did said that he was ok with everyone else's decision
<Seveas> yeah, he'll give you a +1
<ogra> Seveas, mhz sent several mails already ... its a bit inconvenient ...
<Seveas> we'll just have to poke him to do so :)
<mhz> ok
<spacey> ogra, still have to configure proxy settings in your software right?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> not if the server is the default gw for the clients
<spacey> hmmm
<spacey> ogra, so it intercepts traffic?
<ogra> the iptables rule will remap port 80 to 8000 then
<ogra> (or whatever port you choose)
<spacey> hmm
<spacey> i wondered if that worked
<spacey> but it apparently it does
<spacey> tested it?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> why shouldnt that work  ? 
<spacey> i guessed it would mess up the tcp communication between end and client
<ogra> thats how transparent proxies work since ages
<spacey> yeah ok
<spacey> but didn't read anything about transparency in willow docs
<ogra> you run it on your GW
<ogra> the transparency isnt done by willow
<ogra> its done by the remapping of port 80 on the GW (in our case the server)
<ogra> willow just works as ususal
<spacey> hmmm ok interesting
<spacey> i will certainly give that a try
<ogra> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-port 8000
<ogra> thats all you need 
<ogra> (on the GW)
<ogra> it will hand over all http packages to port 8000, whatever sits there
<spacey> kk
<ogra> (you could also put a apache there and fake all websites for example)
<ogra> or use apache in proxy mode ...
<spacey> i'll see how well that willow performs 
<spacey> with more then 50 users
<ogra> yup, i didnt do any performance tests yes
<ogra> *yet
<spacey> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/i5458
<spacey> :)
<ogra> yeah
<spacey> think we also need some other page for that :P
<spacey> "Edubuntu thinks this site is not suitable for you little boy"
<ogra> yup
<spacey> Maybe we also want that in the selected language but not sure if thats easy to do
<ogra> should be manageable
<BenC> hey guys
<BenC> is there anything like a website block where I can add sites (whitelist) on edubuntu?
<ogra> BenC, lol
<BenC> ogra: stop following me :P
<ogra> thats funny, we're just playing with willow
<BenC> cool, any packages to test?
<ogra> http://www.digitallumber.net/software/willow/
<ogra> not yet
<BenC> does it work with firefox?
<ogra> i want to package it with a transparent by default mode, just mailed mdz the concept
<ogra> sure
<ogra> the cool thing is that it uses bayesian filtering as base (urllist black/whitelisting too indeed)
<ogra> so it just learns based on content ;)
<BenC> so you can configure it to block everything and then add sites you want to be ok?
<ogra> hmm, i havent looked at it from this side yet ... rather the other way around ...
<ogra> sounds like you want squidguard or dansguardian then
<BenC> my kids are 6 and 9, so I want to be especially tight
<BenC> just want them to be able to a few websites (e.g. nickelodeon)
<ogra> btw, do you limit their online time ? lius sent us a tool he uses for his daughter
<ogra> *linus
<zakame> hi again :D
<BenC> I may be able to do all this from my wrt54g, but I haven't looked yet
<BenC> it also has time restrictions
<ogra> BenC, http://www.squidguard.org/ should support what you want
<BenC> ogra: thanks
<ogra> there is a package in ubuntu
<ogra> you'll need squid as well 
<mhz> kjcole: hi there
* mhz is finishing some stuf before CC
<kjcole> mhz: Hi.  I'm writing a 3-line blurb for Ubunutu membership (gonna try at the CC).
<mhz> ok
<ogra> kjcole, make sure your wikipage is having some nice content too :)
<kjcole> ogra: Not enough there now?
<ogra> dunno
<ogra> lol
<ogra> yes, enough it think :)
<kjcole> ogra: Good.  I wasn't sure. 
<ogra> it was just a general hint i giveeveryone ;)
<ogra> bout your page looks very good
<kjcole> ogra: Thanks.
<jsgotangco> mhz, the customs thing is already all over the wiki and shipit pages, it doesn't have to be in the CC agenda...
<jsgotangco> there is already letter templates for those
<mhz> jsgotangco: ok, thx for that tip, I had no clue
* mhz will delete that then
<jsgotangco> mhz, the CDs are valued at .30  that is where they base the customs tax
<jsgotangco> some customs ignore it, some use it for valuation
<mhz> indeed, but they say it is sub-valued, which means they dont trust us
<jsgotangco> you might want to look for marilize, she sometimes roam in the -devel channel
<jsgotangco> mhz, CDs are cheap really
<mhz> yup, but it is customs decision (in Chile, to charge whatever they think it is reasonable)
<mhz> :(
<jsgotangco> they also charge customs here
<mhz> jsgotangco: i hope they have a fixed fee previously shown somewhere. Here, we dont have such thing. it is very arbitrary
<mhz> ogra: once I finish the things I already commited to, I will work on a WikiHowTo
<jsgotangco> fixed fee?
<mhz> in a KISS way
<jsgotangco> that depends on your tax rates
<jsgotangco> !
<ogra> :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: yup, thats my point... they charge whatever they feel like
<jsgotangco> that's your country's customs issue and canonical is in no way to influence how your customs charge a .30  cd
<mhz> i know, ok. I was just asking for a kind of letter or something that emphatizes the nature of the package, that it is not meant to do business
<mhz> that's all
<jsgotangco> its with the letter from shipit let me look for it
<mhz> thx
<crimsun> it's lovely how 2 simple characters make someone an official member :)
<mhz> crimsun: lol, indeed
<lucasvo> is it normal that one can't open .mp3 in rythmbox?
<zakame> mhz: you rock
<mhz> lucasvo: mmmm, no idea. IIRC, rythmbox is only for Audio Cds
<mhz> zakame: I am who I am because of what we all are, :D
<mhz> thx
<zakame> lucasvo: try getting gstreamer0.8-plugins first ;)
<crimsun> lucasvo: you can't by default. You need gstreamer0.8-mad for basics
<jsgotangco> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/ubuntu_cds-customs_letter-generic.pdf
<jsgotangco> mhz, looks old though
<jsgotangco> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/shipit/
<mhz> lucasvo: won't XMMS be lighter in performance? with xmms you can access mp3 and audio cds
<lucasvo> crimsun, zakame thanks
<mhz> jsgotangco: thx, i'll look at it at the end of cc
<lucasvo> mhz: I don't care about lightness :D
<mhz> lucasvo: oh, ok. I usually do
<lucasvo> mhz atm I have no problem and I don't really like xmms
<lucasvo> #ubuntu is to crowded
<mhz> ok, good to know.
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> but they can be ver handy sometimes
<mhz> ogra: so what happened to Kyral ? is he or not a member?
<ogra> he is, see -meeting
<mhz> oh, there we go, never mind :)
<juliux> ogra, is the meeting today ?
<ogra> CC ? yes
<juliux> should it be on the 7th of december ?
<ogra> now
<juliux> oh
<mhz> juliux: lol!
<juliux> mhz, there was on page who stands 7th
<mhz> sorry
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<K_Dallas> Hi guys! Q: is there any liveCD version of edubuntu out there? i am going to give out a few ubuntu CDs to my kid's school and thought a liveCD of edubuntu would be a better start. thanks
<zakame> hi all
<ogra> K_Dallas, not for the released version ... the dev version should have a liveCD before ednt of the week if you like to test it
<K_Dallas> of course, i would be looking forward to
<K_Dallas> would it be announced on the webpage?
<ogra> on the mailing list normally, but the webpage is a good idea ...
<K_Dallas> great, i will have an eye on it. thanks Oge_ 
<K_Dallas> oops
<K_Dallas> ogra, ;)
<ogra> :)
<K_Dallas> i was reading some of the posts here. http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/2619
<K_Dallas> i hope the good points find their place in edubuntu
<K_Dallas> i also found a french team working on a liveCD-fr which is great ;)
<K_Dallas> http://wiki.ubuntu-fr.org/edubuntu/livecd
<ogra> wow, nice :)
<K_Dallas> i was wondering if edubuntu going to adopt kde instead of gnome. most of the programs i know of for education purposes are based on kde if not all of them
<K_Dallas> and kde is probably has a more familiar face for students who are used to windows
<ogra> nope, but there are some people thinking about making a community project 
<K_Dallas> i see
<K_Dallas> i am personally glad that ubuntu is gnome oriented but projects should also look into the clients diversity and background, imho
<ogra> as long as i develop edubuntu alone it will stay gnome based, i simply have no idea abut kde and no ambition to learn it... additionally i can rely on my colleagues to help me out, our kde development is also done by only on person
<Lord_Athur> hi
<mhz> Lord_Athur: hi
<zakame> hey Lord_Athur 
<Lord_Athur> tell me zakame 
<zakame> Lord_Athur: what? as long as I know :)
<Lord_Athur> :P
<mhz_lunch> Lord_Athur: hey = hi
<Lord_Athur> ap ok
<mhz_lunch> K_Dallas: I am starting to work on a windowmaker theme for edubuntu users with light/old hardware
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> it's a good idea mhz_lunch 
<Lord_Athur> remember to add the project to your wiki page, I'd like to see itr
<Lord_Athur> la "R" al final no va
<Lord_Athur> xD
<zakame> mhz_lunch: woot
<Lord_Athur> mhz_lunch, 
<mhz_lunch> between eating and helping my daughter eat, and cook, i dont think i can have fingers to type replies to IRC :D
<ogra> train your feet then :P
<Lord_Athur> :P
<mhz_lunch> lol
<mhz_lunch> ogra: http://new-www.theopencd.org/Welcome
<mhz_lunch> hno73 did a real cool job
<mhz_lunch> Moin looks quite impressive IMO
<ogra> yes, the last time already :)
<ogra> oh, you mean the design, not the content *g*
<mhz_lunch> design
<mhz_lunch> :)
<jsgotangco> yes we're moving the opencd to a moin based infrastructure
<zakame> mhz_lunch: ooh it looks great :)
<jsgotangco> mhz_lunch, it'll make derivatives easier for people
<jsgotangco> we're using moin moin desktop for starters
* mhz_lunch will have more work to be commited to now... geee i need more time
<K_Dallas> mhz_lunch, i use ubuntu but like the windowmaker if i could use it on m system. as for the daughter's school, i think kde is more opt to their experience
<ogra> jsgotangco, wow, with a moin based bootsplash etc ? *g*
<jsgotangco> haha
<zakame> lol
* jsgotangco slaps ogra
* ogra ducks
<K_Dallas> i havent installe edubuntu on any machine yet, just seen the screenshots
<ogra> K_Dallas, make sure you read the InstallNotes (/topic) before :)
<K_Dallas> ok :)
<jsgotangco> ogra, http://www.flickr.com/photos/belutz/sets/1524102/
<jsgotangco> look at the laptop
<mhz_lunch> K_Dallas: yup, my point was that if we provide more enduser with less hw resources, we provide more options to gnome
<jsgotangco> (its from Belutz btw)
<K_Dallas> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNote is what you mean ogra ?
<ogra> yup
<K_Dallas> mhz_lunch, true
<ogra> since you wont need the ltsp for standalone installs ... 
<mhz_lunch> jsgotangco: i have been testing some ways to syn Moin desktop with Moin server /data
<ogra> jsgotangco, cool :)
<mhz_lunch> sync
<K_Dallas> ogra, thanks for the headup
<ogra> :)
* mhz_lunch hopes you guys stop writing interesting stuff here so I can eat instead of having itching fingers to write/give opinions
<K_Dallas> lol ;)
<K_Dallas> mhz_lunch, use a straw ;)
<mhz_lunch> hehehe
<zakame> jsgotangco: er have you met Belutz irl?
<ogra> feed your kid before she starves 
<zakame> hrhr
<jsgotangco> zakame, i should have, a few days ago...if i had time...
<mhz_lunch> ogra: i can't wait she develops her python skills and make a program like pyfeedingkids
<mhz_lunch> :D
<ogra> hehe
<mhz_lunch> so parents have more time to do *nix stuff
<mhz_lunch> with kids collabotarion
<zakame> jsgotangco: wow, they had a lot there... I wonder when we could do that here :)
<mhz_lunch> so, a happy *nix-quality-family-time
<jsgotangco> zakame, when i start distributing the 300CDs that i hvae
<jsgotangco> *if i get time*
<jsgotangco> zakame, that was jakarta deb conf btw
<zakame> jsgotangco: you got it now?
<jsgotangco> zakame, thursday
<zakame> w00t
<Absorto> Hello!
<Absorto> How can I use KDM thru XDMCP when in LTSP?
* mhz_lunch BBS
<Absorto> I tried using SCREEN_0 = startx but that doesn't work.
<Absorto> In fact, i think I'm having some other problem since I tried to Xnest -query kdmhost and that didn't work either.
<Absorto> The Xnest window just flickers and says "Could not init font path element /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID/, removing from list!" over and over.
<Absorto> I modified /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc to enable xdmcp and Xaccess to allow logins from any host.
<Absorto> Any clues?
<Absorto> oh, i apt-got kubuntu-desktop and chose kdm. The local X server displays kdm just fine.
<spacey> uhm
<spacey> just enable xdmcp in the xserver
<spacey> enable tcp
<spacey> in x
<spacey> and
<Absorto> where do I enable tcp?
<spacey> hack the thinclient a bit
<spacey> not sure where that flag suppose to be in ubuntu
<spacey> might be in the script that starts X or some config
<spacey> however all that stuff is not supported
<Absorto> i enabled xdmcp in /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc
<spacey> because we want to it run over ssh by default
<spacey> i don't use ide
<spacey> kde
<Absorto> over ssh by default? thats how ldm does it?
<ogra> yes
<Absorto> awesome! 
<Absorto> does edubuntu run some sort of iptables script? could it be firewall related?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> the ubuntu Xserver simply is made more secure ... tcp is disabled generally
<ogra> ho open ports policy ....
<ogra> s/ho/no/
<ogra> look if your X runs with the --nolisten-tcp option ...if it does, you need to hack kdm ...
<Absorto> ServerArgsLocal=-nolisten tcp in kdmrc! let's see
<Absorto> nope, that wasn't it.
<ogra> you need to hack ltsp client too, ldm wont let you use something else than ssh tunneled connections
<Absorto> ogra, I want to use kdm instead of ldm. I think I should debug kdm first, and then use SCREEN_0 = startx.
<ogra> so you need to make sure ldm isnt started and install say GDM or KDM in the chroot
<Absorto> I'm trying to connect to kdm from a Xnest client/server first.
<spacey> that should always work
<spacey> even when tcp is disabled
<ogra> also see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLtsConfParams for supported options ...
<spacey> afiak
<ogra> not everything is supported yet (SCREEN_0 is though)
<Absorto> well, i read /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/screen.d/startx, it says it shoud run a local X server on the client with a -query parameter, precisely to connect via xdmcp
<Absorto> but before I debug the thinclient i should be able to conect to kdm from other x servers, right?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> does your processlist agree that X isnt running the --nolisten option anymore ? 
<ogra> afaik KDM is very buggy in this area
<ogra> i'd suggest GDM, even for KDE
<Absorto> well, i just checked from a running kde setup and it includes --nolisten tcp
<Absorto> so i think that isn't related
<mhz> re
<JayAllen> Hey, folks.
<JayAllen> Just finished an Edubuntu install,  but the system isn't recognizing my 3Com Etherlink III card. Is the driver for this installed by default, and if not, where should I grab it from?
<vmarks> I think I've used that card before without issue.
<vmarks> can you set it up in the networking preferences?
<JayAllen> No, it doesn't appear.
<JayAllen> I just found a setup program for it - I'm going to try compiling and running it.
<JayAllen> There's a special setup for the 3c5x9 cards from 3com. We'll see if that does the trick.
<ogra> first look if the module loads with sudo modprobe 3c59x
<ogra> there normally is no NIC apart from proprietary ones that doesnt work in ubuntu/edubuntu
<JayAllen> lemme try
<ogra> might be a autosensing issue with the switch/router ...
<JayAllen> Ok,looks like it's loaded, but Loopback interface is still the only device that shows up in the Network dialog.
<ogra> what does dmesg say, is the interface mentioned in the last lines after the modprobe ? 
<ogra> i have uch a card aroud somewhere, it always worked out of the box
<JayAllen> lemme check
<JayAllen> Huh. The log says pnp found the device, identified its MAC address and IRQ (5), and loaded the associated 3c509 driver.
<ogra> sudo ifup eth0 ? 
<ogra> what doe sthat give you ? 
<JayAllen> Ignoring unnown interface eth0=eth0
<JayAllen> But ifconfig eth0 shows the address of the card, interrupt, base addr, etc.
<ogra> you did the server installation  ? 
<ogra> (i.e. default ?)
<JayAllen> Yeah, default install.
<ogra> and you gave an IP GW etc address
<ogra> ?
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<JayAllen> It didn't detect the card at boot - I had no chance to. LTSP install failed later on, after the system failed to find the net card
<ogra> hmm, strange ... i never saw probs with 3com cards
<ogra> did you want a sevr install ? 
<JayAllen> It worked fine under the previous Windows XP install. It's odd. It's not like it's John and Pat's Discount Ethernet Card or anything.
<JayAllen> I'm doing a review of Edubuntu for BloggingBaby.com, a parenting blog I co-manage. I went through the defaults, thinking most non-tech-savvy parents would do likewise.
<JayAllen> I might try and reinstall using workstation and see if that makes a difference.
<ogra> its advised to read the InstallNotes before ... i sadly couldnt add all auto generation features, edubuntu is a one man show and had only 2 months development time and 1 month bugfixing time
<JayAllen> Totally understood. :) 
<JayAllen> I might try the workstation install and see if that changes things.
<ogra> but that the card isnt found by the installer is pretty unusual
<JayAllen> It looks from the logs like it can find it - it just can't use it, for whatever reason...
<ogra> thats pretty weird ...
<JayAllen> No, workstation pre-install doesn't detect the 3com card either.
<JayAllen> So I'll stick with this install and just try and figure this crap out. I might switch the card to see if it makes the  problem go away.
<ogra> most likely it will go away
<JayAllen> I can only hope.
<ogra> youre the first with this prob ... afaik
<ogra> AHA !
<ogra> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16874
<ogra> its a kernel bug :)
<ogra> affects redhat too apparently ...
<JayAllen> checking now...
<JayAllen> So can I just set acpi=off? Where do I do that?
<ogra> at the CD bootprompt you type: linux acpi=off
<BenC> JayAllen: also, it's fixed in dapper kernel, so if you can do an install, and then upgrade to dapper kernel (or wait a few days for dapper flight 2 cd's), then you should be ok
<JayAllen> Ok, sounds good.
<JayAllen> Thanks for the help!
<ogra> JayAllen, youre welcome, come back if you have more questions :)
<JayAllen> Hm. Actually, booting with linux acpi=off doesn't detect the card during pre-install either. :-(
<JayAllen> Screw it.It's less work at this point to switch the card out.
<\sh> moins
<ogra> hi
<unimatrix9> hi there
<unimatrix9> i read somewhere that its also possible to install ubuntu and then the edubuntu desktop on top?
<ogra> yup
<unimatrix9> ok, so i got ubuntu 5.10
<unimatrix9> can i download the edubuntu desktop somewhere and put it on cdrom?
<ogra> not really, it has dependencys ...
<unimatrix9> hmm, so it would be better ,after all, to just install edubuntu straight away, right?
<ogra> then i'd reather go for the edubuntu iso ... instaed of fiddling with single packages
<ogra> if you have an online connection or the edubuntu CD handy its no prob to install edubuntu-desktop on top of ubuntu though ...
<ogra> edubuntu is develped inside of ubuntu...
<ogra> *developed
<unimatrix9> so , maybe, (theory) i could install ubuntu and add media with edubuntu cdrom?
<ogra> yup, for example 
<unimatrix9> this way i would have more choices for packages..
<unimatrix9> its for an school , but no internet acces
<unimatrix9> bit of a problem....
<unimatrix9> less options this way...
<unimatrix9> :)
<unimatrix9> there is no ubuntu dvd, is there?
<chevy> hi anybody have a couple of minutes to help out with an install problem?
<unimatrix9> any way thanx for the info
<blue-frog> there is a dvd
<unimatrix9> really, oh, did not know that...
<blue-frog> unimatrix9, do you have access to a laptop otherwise?
<ogra> there is even a edubuntu dvd :)
<ogra> chevy, ?
<chevy> yep
<ogra> just ask your questions, no need to ask if you may ask :)
<chevy> its a couple of problems, ethernet (3Com) and sound (Creative)
<chevy> during install the ethernet card isnt recognised . . 
<ogra> hmm, 3vcom day today
<ogra> *3com
<chevy> it said something about no ethernet but a firewire interface (i dont have firewire btw)
<unimatrix9> yes
<ogra> i didnt eve know about the prob until today, youre the second guy having it during 2h
<chevy> after install/logging in i looked up network setup and no ethernet present
<chevy> device manager has nothing
<ogra> thats a kernel bug that affects all distros it seems http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16874
<chevy> lspci does not list any ethernet card
<chevy> i had mandrake installed on the same PC until yesterday and it worked fine . .same kernel
<chevy> (i think) !!
<ogra> see the bugreport
<chevy> looking
<chevy> tks
<chevy> i'll try that.  on to problem #2
<ogra> might be related :)
<chevy> creative soundblaster not recognised as no sound coming out
<chevy> ah
<ogra> hwats wrong with your sound
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> lsmod |grep snd ?
<ogra> does that give any output ? 
<chevy> booting up now . .i'll post the results in a mo
<unimatrix9> creative soundblaster, should be fine
<ogra> paste to pastebin ...
<unimatrix9> with alsa
<ogra> (see /topic)
<ogra> yes, it should .... 
<ogra> but if there are acpi probs already it might be related
<unimatrix9> i wonder what kind of pc it is
<unimatrix9> alway's try with live cd before install....
<ogra> es, that helps ...
<ogra> *yes
<unimatrix9> ok, for school i go for the ubuntu install and the edubuntu as added media, i can then choose edubuntu desktop as package ?
<unimatrix9> or would it be better the other way round?
<ogra> both is fine
<ogra> the edubuntu CD contains ubuntu plus the edubuntu content ...
<ogra> and some changes to the installer
<unimatrix9> ok, but there is an package called edubuntu? that i can install , or how is it called?
<ogra> edubuntu-desktop 
<unimatrix9> thats clear thank you for your time...
<ogra> (which pulls in all the edu apps and edubuntu-artwork
<unimatrix9> very fine! :p
<ogra> you can use the edubuntu CD, do a "server" install and install ubuntu-desktop afterwards 
<ogra> so you could go with one media ...
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<ogra> server is the minimal install (i'll rename it to "core" for the next release to avoid confusion)
<unimatrix9> ok
<unimatrix9> i read the page
<unimatrix9> have read it....
<chevy> unimatrix - it is a PII-233
<unimatrix9> ah, and sound works?
<chevy> lsmod|gred snd returned nothing
<ogra> s/gred/grep/
<chevy> sorry grep
<ogra> try: sudo /etc/init.d/alsa start 
<ogra> and see what that gives ...
<ogra> hmm, actually, is that an isa card ? 
<ogra> isa might have probs ..
<chevy> PCI ?
<chevy> creative soundblaster
<ogra> should work ...
<chevy> here's the result
<chevy> Warning: The 'start' method is deprecated and will be removed
<chevy> Warning: Use the alsa-utils initscript instead
<ogra> oh, then 
<chevy> * Setting up ALSA... [ok] 
<chevy> but doesnt work
<ogra> try: sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils start 
<chevy> * Setting up ALSA... [ok] 
<ogra> is a sound module loaded ? 
<chevy> tried launching Volume Control but getting a msg No volume control elements and/or devices found
<ogra> strange 
<unimatrix9> modprobe...?
<ogra> thats what alsa-utils should do
<chevy> modprobe snd?
<ogra> paste your lspci output to the pastebin please 
<ogra> (see /topic)
<chevy> i'll have to type it out as that PC has neither sound nor network !!
<unimatrix9> what brand is the pc?
<ogra> so try to gt networking up first ...
<unimatrix9> dont you rember what mandrake used for the card?
<ogra> as the bugreport indicates
<chevy> lspci lists the following --> Host bridge, PCI bridge, ISA bridge, IDE interface, USB controller, Bridge, VGA Compatible controller
<ogra> no soundcard ...
<chevy> nope
<ogra> i'm pretty sure thats a acpi error ...
<chevy> ok i'll give that a go now
<ogra> or your soundcard is isa ...
<chevy> are acpi settings controlled via boot/grub/menu.lst ?
<unimatrix9> chevy, with mandrak everything worked?
<ogra> just do it on boot
<chevy> uni, yes everything did . . 
<chevy> out of the box
<ogra> hit esc if you see the grub msg 
<ogra> then select the kernel line you use and hit e ...
<ogra> hit e again and append the option to the kernel line 
<ogra> then hit enter and b
<ogra> e == edit, b == boot
<chevy> kernel line - should it be recovery mode?
<ogra> nope
<chevy> probably not
<chevy> ok
<ogra> the default kernel
<chevy> hit e again and append the option to the kernel line --> there are 3 opions 1) root 2)kernel 3)initrd  which one should i select
<ogra> kernel
<unimatrix9> interesting
<ogra> it should say quiet splash at ther end
<chevy> yep
<chevy> booting
<ogra> add acpi=off with a space 
<ogra> ok
<chevy> didnt add the space at the end
<ogra> no, in front :)
<chevy> yep did that
<chevy> lol
<ogra> i.e: splash acpi=off
<chevy> yep got that
<ogra> i have peple that just append it :)
<ogra> so i mention it
<chevy> booting through . . so far the router isn't lighting up
<chevy> logged in . , bringin up terminal
<unimatrix9> on the back there's an light for the network too?...mostly..
<chevy> lets have a look
<unimatrix9> sounds like an old pc...lol
<ogra> yup
<chevy> this is an elderly card . . doesn't have one . . 
<chevy> yes it is!! 1998 specs
<chevy> my son uses it
<unimatrix9> hopefully enough ram...hehe
<chevy> he was pretty thrilled when i installed edubuntu . . a bit disappointed with the sound not working but that hasn't held him back!!
<chevy> 128MB
<unimatrix9> a bit low
<chevy> really?
<unimatrix9> never mind...
<chevy> i had a dual boot win2K and mandrake 10.1 on this until yesterday!!
<chevy> tad slow but worked well
<unimatrix9> you know for my linux boxes i buy sweex 4.1 soundcards
<unimatrix9> they are really cheap 9 euro
<chevy> ok lspci has the same output as before ..  no sound card, no ethernet
<chevy> lsmod no result
<unimatrix9> strange problem...
<chevy> didnt add the space at the end
<chevy> sudo /etc/.... same result as before
<chevy> no diff really
<chevy> checking device manager
<chevy> nothing there
<chevy> just checked the file /boot/grub/menu.lst and the kernel line doesn't have the acpi=off setting . . perhaps i messed up the save
<chevy> shall i add it directly to the file and reboot?
<unimatrix9> orga?
<chevy> ogra u there?
<unimatrix9> reading back..
<unimatrix9> you did also try lsmod?
<unimatrix9> to see if it was there right?
<chevy> yes
<chevy> no output
<unimatrix9> do you need an driver cd for sound in windows?
<chevy> not really it has usually recognised it
<unimatrix9> its probably not an creative sound blaster then...
<unimatrix9> hmm, gone with the wind..
<unimatrix9> orga?
<unimatrix9> orga got visitors or is on the telephone, or fell asleep, 
<unimatrix9> LOL
<chevy> back
<unimatrix9> was just waving goodbye...
<unimatrix9> chevy, i cant solve the problem, to bad...
<chevy> ok anyway thanks for the help ..  i'll poke around for some time and see if anything works out . . 
<chevy> appreciate it
<unimatrix9> but i dont think its an creative soundblaster
<unimatrix9> ( pci version )
<chevy> it is a pci card
<unimatrix9> as they need drivers from cdrom most of the time
<unimatrix9> at least thats what i am used to, with these cards on windows
<unimatrix9> on the card, when you take it out, on the chip
<unimatrix9> there is an identifcation, so you know what it is..
<unimatrix9> you could also boot into windows and see afcause
<chevy> actually yes, i have had to download drivers each time i reinstalled windows
<unimatrix9> ah
<chevy> but with mandrake it worked straightaway
<chevy> i just used to run soundctl once after install and then it worked
<unimatrix9> yes, mandrake is user friendly...
<chevy> but here, its not even recognising the card exists . . which is frustrating
<alistair_> the certification for ubuntu, any plans to do an edubuntu one? like specific with ltsp etc?
<unimatrix9> i understand chevy, all too well
<chevy> one last Q . . as there is no concept of root, how do i work on system folders?
<chevy> through terminal
<ogra> sudo 
<unimatrix9> especially when trying to setup for someone else
<ogra> sorry , my line dropped 
<chevy> wb ogra
<chevy> you were sorely missed :-)
<ogra> does: cat /proc/net/dev|grep eth
<unimatrix9> you picked it up again...so thats okey
<chevy> i was just ranting to uni
<unimatrix9> :)
<ogra> spit out anything ? 
<chevy> trying
<chevy> nothing
<ogra> hmm...
<chevy> so acpi=off didn't have any effect
<ogra> lsmod |grep 3c
<unimatrix9> ogra, how come lsmod gives nothing?
<chevy> i have even opened up the case and reset the cards . . 
<chevy> nothing
<ogra> unimatrix9, see the bug, its a kernel bug in 2.6
<unimatrix9> ah
<ogra> solved in 2.6.14
<ogra> i'm guessing mandrake uses 2.4 and oss ...
<ogra> while we use 2.6 and alsa
<ogra> which should still work though ... 
<chevy> mandrake uses alsa as well as oss
<unimatrix9> yes, mandrake uses oss, and you can also choose alsa, if its there for your soundcard
<ogra> we use alsa by default ... but oss emulation on top where needed
<chevy> afaik mandrake defaulted to alsa for this PC/card combo
<ogra> i'm pretty sure crimsun could help with the sound issue ... 
<ogra> he works on alsa upstream ...
<ogra> but he's away it seems
<unimatrix9> but its rather strange that the card never shows up any where, right?
<ogra> yes
<chevy> nowhere at all
<unimatrix9> is it maybe an pci raiser card on an desktop computer, and the whole stackis not detected, wow?
<ogra> try booting with: pci=noacpi
<chevy> ok 
<ogra> to switch off acpi explicitly for the pci bus
<chevy> same procedure as before?
<ogra> yup
<unimatrix9> well, its late, hope you work it out, got to get some sleep..., 
<chevy> thanks uni
<unimatrix9> bye bye...its been educational for me! 
<ogra> heh
<ogra> :)
<chevy> pci=noacpi or pcpi=nopci?
<chevy> pci
<ogra> the first is right
<chevy> ok
<chevy> booted
<ogra> sound ? 
<chevy> none
<ogra> sad
<ogra> does lspci show you the card ? 
<chevy> not yet!
<chevy> looks like a dead end
<ogra> yes
<ogra> its strange that its not shown 
<ogra> are you sure its a pci card ? 
<chevy> any idea what that firewire stuff was all about?
<ogra> nope
<chevy> what if it is isa .. 
<chevy> isapnp comes to mind from ages ago
<ogra> you might need to initialise it manually with isapnp
<chevy> any idea how i can do that?
<chevy> soundblaster AWE64 . . google shows up isa pnp
<ogra> heh, thats why ...
<ogra> install isapnptools
<ogra> and run pnpdump ...
<ogra> there must be mowtos online ... its years ago that i had to do such stuff 
<chevy> the tools . . are they on the CD?
<chevy> ok i'll look it up and giv eit a go
<ogra> nope, in universe 
<chevy> universe?
<ogra> for the network card issue my only idea is to use another one :/
<ogra> yes, use the synaptic package manager and enable the universe repository ...
<chevy> that's easily done ..  i can get another one . . any make other than 3Com?
<ogra> yup
<chevy> ok
<ogra> seems only 3com has this issue and only with a specific kernel version
<chevy> in edubuntu, do i select Add Apps to get pnptools?
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto
<chevy> universe added
<ogra> add the universe repository and add universe to get access to the 17000 apps there
<chevy> but needs the internet :(
<ogra> yes :/
<chevy> going round in circles comes to mind!!!!
<ogra> so solve the card issue first 
<chevy> i think i need to sort out the network card first
<chevy> yep
<ogra> yup
<chevy> LoL
<ogra> :)
<chevy> thanks for your help tonight
<chevy> learnt a few things along the way!
<ogra> and i refreshed some :)
<ogra> thanks as well :)
<chevy> probably fix the network card and return for the sound card tomorrow . . catch you if you're around
<ogra> yup, feel free :)
<chevy> g'night
<ogra> night 
<arkan0x> mhz_stuff, !
<Absorto> ogra, remember I was trying to xdmcp to kdm? well, I think it might be a genuine bug in kdm. I found this: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114385
<Absorto> besides: i tried with gdm and it worked.
<ogra> i told you so :)
<ogra> <ogra> does your processlist agree that X isnt running the --nolisten option anymore ? 
<ogra> <ogra> afaik KDM is very buggy in this area
<ogra> <ogra> i'd suggest GDM, even for KDE
<ogra> ;)
<Absorto> well, the bug says it has a fixed status but... well, it doesnt work! what should I do?
<ogra> use GDM
<ogra> its not *this* bad :)
<Absorto> I would but I really need kdm :(
<ogra> why that ? its only the login app
<Absorto> I know but we have an enterprise theme that is supposed to be deployed :(
<ogra> port it ? 
<Absorto> and there's some scripts that must be run from Xstartup
* Absorto sighs.
<ogra> GDM can do that too
<ogra> i cant fix KDM ... 
<ogra> so the only fix is to actually use GDM/XDM/etc
<Absorto> Yes, I understand that. 
<ogra> and hope for the KDE guys ...
<Absorto> and the edubuntu guys...
<ogra> guy
<ogra> i'm still seeking for more developers :)
<arkan0x> mhz_stuff, ! ping
<Absorto> that would be you? wow!
<Absorto> I'm willing to help! I just don't know what to do. Should I try to compile from skratch?
<ogra> contributions greatfully accepted :)
<mhz_stuff> arkan0x: pong
<ogra> your KDM ? dunno, probably \sh can help 
<arkan0x> mhz_stuff, entonz la reunion se corre para cuando ?
<arkan0x> mhz_stuff, jueves ?
<mhz_stuff> debiera ser jueves
<arkan0x> mhz_stuff, me complica a mi el jueves :P
<mhz_stuff> uufff
<mhz_stuff> arkan0x: #edubuntu-es
<arkan0x> mhz_stuff, ok
<ogra> Absorto, probably #ltsp has a solution ...
<Absorto> thanks, 
<mherweg> hi all
<ogra> mherweg, hey ... late guy :)
<mherweg> I installed edubuntu-amd64. how can I install LTSP for i368 Clints now ?
<ogra> you cant  (in breezy)
<ogra> i just prepared the patch for dapper 
<mherweg> hmm...
#edubuntu 2006-12-04
<Paladine> hello :)
<Paladine> can anyone tell me if there is anything in edubuntu that requires opengl 2?
<cafuego_> don't think so
<crimsun> the kernel.
* crimsun chuckles
<cafuego_> that just requires libxml, not opengl2 :-P
<crimsun> :p
<Paladine> was just curious cos I am building an edubuntu box for my son and missus
<Paladine> but it will only take graphics upto opengl 1.4
<Paladine> (old athlon xp system)
<Paladine> so I just wanted to make sure I didn't have to upgrade the whole system including mainboard
<Paladine> so this lot should run edubuntu with no problems then? athlon xp 1800, 512MB SDRAM, 16x DVDRW, 256MB FX5500 PCI Graphics, 80GB WD IDE HDD, 360W ASUS Silent PSU and Silverstone LC10 HTPC case :)
<Laser_away> yep, that's almost exactly what I have at home
<Paladine> k :) cheap box then with the exception of the case :)
<Paladine> I have everything already apart from the case, hdd, graphics and psu :)
<Paladine> my son is not even 12 months old yet, but I am sure he will enjoy all the edubuntu stuff
<Paladine> and my missus is computer illiterate, so maybe she will learn something too
<Paladine> and hopefully now, she will stop messing with my kit :)
<cafuego_> Paladine: at worst, some new games might require it (but unlikely)
<cafuego_> Paladine: the worst you can throw at it from a Linux point of view would be Google Earth or SecondLife, and they both work fine wotj ogl 1.4
<Paladine> I am looking forward to giving this a go
<Paladine> my missus is dyslexic too so I am hoping I can find or develop some software to help her with her dyslexia
<cafuego_> Paladine: I run it on an athlonxp 2000+ laptop with 512Mb just fine
<Paladine> plus it won't have a monitor, it will be going straight out to the tv, which is a more familiar environment for her
* cafuego_ nods
<cafuego_> so it'll run at 800x600 tops?
<cafuego_> or so you have one of those fancy widescreen HD things?
<Paladine> well 16:9 so the whatever the 16:9 equivalent is
<Paladine> but not HD, just regular crt
<cafuego_> well
<cafuego_> 320x180 on my ipod ;-)
<Paladine> I believe I need to set the DPI to 100 as well for optimised tv output
<Paladine> first time I have setup a pc specifically for use with a tv
<cafuego_> the pixels on a tv are FAR larger then on a computer screen
<cafuego_> PAL or NTSC?
<Paladine> PAL
<cafuego_> 720x576
<Paladine> yeah thats what I figured
<Paladine> well no isn't 720x576 4:3 aspect ratio?
<Paladine> I have mythtv running in 720x576 on my desktop here and it is 4:3
<Paladine> 768x576 I -think-
<Paladine> but checking now
<Paladine> ooo there is vga-scart converters now
<Paladine> which will give better control and otput than svideo
<cafuego_> nice
<cafuego_> hmm
<achandra> howdy guys. Im trying to install edubuntu on G4 (ppc) and get the white screen of death on the install. Can someone help out?
<ogra> see the first screen, there is a bootoption listed to avoid that
<ogra> (before you boot from the CD)
<achandra> ogra: yes I tried with install video=ofonly and it white screens, with the expert mode, the monitor goes into "sleep" mode or appears to have no connection to the system at all.
<achandra> this is with the 6.10 version
<RichEd> achandra ... do you get two white ASCII squares on a blank screen at around 50-60% install progress ?
<RichEd> if so, it may be the video drive not loading from text mode on install to to video mode ... try leaving the installation to continue ... I had keyboard lock-up and screen as described, but 20-30 mins later, my CD ejected, and on reboot, all was 100% okay.
<cbx33> hey ogra RichEd
<achandra> RichEd: Hi, nope... it white screens almost immediately after the install command is given
<achandra> RichEd: even worse when in expert mode it point blank goes into "monitor will go into sleep mode in 5 seconds"
<achandra> weird..
<achandra> Hi, This is very strange...but the stock...dapper 6.06 when going into live mode...works fine.. so im perplexed here..
<ogra> achandra, usplash changed a lot between dapper/edgy ...
<ogra> its likely an usplash issue with the framebuffer driver
<ogra> did you look in launchad if someone has filed a bug (and probably has a workaround) ?
<achandra> actually I tried to google like heck..but didnt see anything...my query was based on two things
<achandra> ubuntu edgy on G4 and edubuntu install G4 how to
<achandra> and powerpc as well..
<achandra> very little there
<ogra> i tested the CD before release on an ibook G4 with ati card, worked fine ...
<ogra> some users reported distorted bootscreens, but thats about as much as know ...
<ogra> the white screen should usually be solved with the ofonly parameter
<achandra> k..well. I will see "how far i get with the 6.06 release" and move on from there...I appreciate the insight :)
<cbx33> any kerberos users here?
<juliux> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hey juliux how are you doing?
<juliux> jsgotangco,  i am fine, and you?
<juliux> jsgotangco, it's christmas time ;)
<jsgotangco> hehehe yeah we just had our christmas tree at home setup yesterday and today at work, they already raised a lot of decors for the holidays as well
<juliux> jsgotangco, i have no christmas tree at home
<juliux> but there is a lot of christmas stuff in the city
<juliux> jsgotangco, but we have here +10 that is very warm for december
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> where is this??
<juliux> dresden/germany
<juliux> normaly we have snow in december
<jsgotangco> well global warming does wonders to the weather
<juliux> jap
<RichEd> hi willvdl ... you there ?
<bddebian> Heya
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi mate
<bddebian> Heya Kamping_Kaiser
* Kamping_Kaiser thought bddebian ussually had a cloak...?
<bddebian> Nah
<coz_> apokryphos, i see that you are also on edubuntu channel
<apokryphos> yup
<coz_> apokryphos, you use edubuntu/
<apokryphos> I have
<coz_> apokryphos, nice.. did you like it?
<apokryphos> it was pretty decent, yup.
<stgraber> hi
<rockprincess> hello!
<LaserJock> hi rockprincess
<rockprincess> hi LaserJock!
<rockprincess> does anyone know where i can get the green chalkboard edubuntu background?
<LaserJock> hmm, it's on Dapper
<rockprincess> is it on edgy as well?
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<rockprincess> :(
<rockprincess> i'm on edgy
<LaserJock> gimme a sec and I'll have it for you
<rockprincess> thank you!
<LaserJock> doh, grabbed the wrong one, just one more minuter
<rockprincess> heheh ;)
<LaserJock> http://www.laserjock.us/ubuntu/edubuntu_chalkboard.png
<rockprincess> thank you Laserjock, you're a sweetheart! xxx
<LaserJock> no problem
<rockprincess> why was the GNOME window manager chosen for edubuntu?
<LaserJock> well ...
<LaserJock> it's what the developers of Edubuntu chose
<LaserJock> I really don't know the historical reasons
<rockprincess> I see....
<LaserJock> ogra would probably  know
<rockprincess> I for myself prefer the KDE Desktop, but I think I will get used to it.....
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but we really have to pick one
<LaserJock> as we don't have room to ship both
<stgraber> Maybe simply because the classical Ubuntu uses gnome and the goal of Edubuntu wasn't to propose another desktop environment (I don't know where the Kubuntu development was when the Desktop Environment was choosen for Edubuntu)
<LaserJock> yeah, I think that's part of it
<LaserJock> I don't think Kubuntu was nearly to the level it is now when Edubuntu was started
<LaserJock> so not having to maintain a KDE desktop was a definite plus
<rockprincess> ahh I see, thanks for the answers ;))))
<Dheeraj_k> how to unrar rar file? if it is password protected?
<Burgwork> Dheeraj_k: you need to have unrar-nonfree installed
<Burgwork> with that, the archive manager will handle all but the password protected ones
<Dheeraj_k> i tried to unrar from terminal
<Burgwork> you need unrar-nonfree, not just unrar
<Dheeraj_k> oh i just downloaded it
<Dheeraj_k> let me try
<Dheeraj_k> finally i did it thanx :)
<Burgwork> no worries
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> I reember now I thought it was rar we linuxians couldn't uncompress
<cbx33> but it's stuff it isn't it
<Dheeraj_k> which is the best pdf doc maker for linux?
<cbx33> open office makes a pretty good job
<Dheeraj_k> same as acrobat
<harrypopof> scribus / Ooo
<Dheeraj_k> or pdf editor
<harrypopof> evince
<Dheeraj_k> but if pdf file is  big than? may be around 10mb
<Dheeraj_k> i am sure it will hangup openoffice
<Dheeraj_k> and does open office support editing of pdf file?
<Dheeraj_k> any good replacement of adobe acrobat?
<harrypopof> use Xpdf or evince
<Burgwork> there is nothing at allows editing of pdf files
<Burgwork> however, you can turn it into a ps and then edit that
<Dheeraj_k> there should be some alternative
<Dheeraj_k> because i am able to edit pdf file in windows using acrobat
<Dheeraj_k> and xpdf is just a pdf viewer
<Burgwork> are you talking editing or forms?
<Dheeraj_k> editing existing pdf file
<Dheeraj_k> like removing or adding text in a existing pdf file
<Burgwork> not possible currently
<Dheeraj_k> !pdf
<ubotu> pdf is the Portable Document Format created by Adobe; viewable in GNU/Linux with xpdf/kpdf/gpdf, evince and also adobe reader (free download, but closed source)
<Dheeraj_k> i guess i found something interesting http://applications.linux.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/06/0612209
<Dheeraj_k> !firefox
<ubotu> firefox is the default web-browser on Ubuntu. To install the latest version, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxNewVersion Installing plugins: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxPlugins
<harrypopof> mozilla-acroread, great thank you
<rockprincess> i think kword can edit pdf files.....
<rockprincess> the latest koffice was released just a few days ago....
<nixternal> hola compadres
#edubuntu 2006-12-05
<gregben> Hi, did a system update and now eth0 configures itself as ipv6 only. I can manually fix by disabling, re-enabling eth0, but have to repeat at every reboot. How to fix?
<wizzy> problems mounting nfs root using the dapper nfs server. Thin clients pause for a long time, eventually saying "cannot contact nfs server". Logging on the server indicates successful mount. Problems only on dapper, fine on debian sarge. no firewall rules, nothing in hosts.allow/deny. Where should I start looking ? client environment built with edgy ltsp-build-client - pointing to edgy repo.
<RichEd> wizzy ... try asking on #ltsp ... look for sbalneaves, or jammcq
<willvdl> Hey wizz:
<willvdl> wizzy rather
<wizzy> willvdl: hi
<wizzy> found my answer on the ltsp mailing list - NFS options on the client loaded from pxe
<rockprincess> hello all! what is your opinion on these 100 Dollar Laptops - One Laptop Per Child...
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi rockprincess
<rockprincess> hi Kamping_Kaiser!
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: are you from Germany?
<Kamping_Kaiser> and to answer your question: its a nice idea in princlple, i just have reservations about the implimentation (and probability)
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, parent yes, not me though
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: true...it's a good idea though, and I've just seen the mock-up shots from their website.....
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: where are you from then?
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, down under (australia)
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: cool ;)
<rockprincess> how late is it at yours then? late evening?
<Kamping_Kaiser> 11.25PM
<rockprincess> wow, pretty late
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh
<Kamping_Kaiser> trying to fix a mates comptuetr in the next 30 min... not looking good :|
<rockprincess> is it a windows computer or linux machine?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ubuntu. failed dapper --> edgy upgrade
* Kamping_Kaiser resizes partitions... hope this doesnt fail :S
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, you an ubuntu user?
<rockprincess> yep, i'm a kubuntu user :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<rockprincess> and currently having edubuntu on my laptop...for my bachelors assignment
<Kamping_Kaiser> :o whats your assignment?
<rockprincess> i wanna write about edubuntu being used at schools, kinda like a fieldstudy...going back to my old high school and setting up edubuntu there....just need to confirm it with my teachers there...and an uni prof...
<rockprincess> and i wanna write about open-source software in general....
<Kamping_Kaiser> nice work :O
<rockprincess> i would love to do that.....but it all depends on the right people, i guess ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> sounds cool. hope to hear how that progresses :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i know the feeling :)O=
<rockprincess> i'm sooooo eager to start, each day i'm making up new ideas for this project...and tomorrow afternoon i'm meeting my old IT teacher at high school
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, what country are you in?
<rockprincess> i'm from austria
<Kamping_Kaiser> aaah :)
<rockprincess> that's why i guessed you must be from germany...or any german speaking country....because of "Kaiser" in your nickname ;) we used to have a kaiser here you know....many moons ago though....
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
* Kamping_Kaiser stacks dockingstatsions under a desk... back if my back is ok ;)
<rockprincess> hehee
<frflame> hi
<Kamping_Kaiser> hell0
<Kamping_Kaiser> *o
<frflame> heya
<frflame> do you use edubuntu?
<frflame> I'm waiting for my cd to come
<frflame> its been sent to the shipping company.
<frflame> today
<frflame> :)
<frflame> anyway
<frflame> im off
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh. wtf?
<Kamping_Kaiser> gnight all!
<rockprincess> hello!
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<bddebian> Heya
<aikido> Hello, I'm trying to install edubuntu via a livecd... after the splash screen the image in the monitor goes crazy... I've tryied graphics save option without sucess, any ideas??
<LaserJock> aikido: would it be hard to get the Alternate CD?
<LaserJock> that's generally more flexible for Edubuntu
<aikido> Laser: what do you mean by the alternate?? download it again???
<LaserJock> the Alternate CD
<LaserJock> the livcd isn't as flexible on Edubuntu
<LaserJock> aikido: what kind of setup are you wanting to do?
<aikido> I'm trying to install it in a pentium III processor with 256 in ram, an old Hp pavillion
<LaserJock> ok, so I'm guessing you aren't wanting to make an LTSP server
<aikido> Oh no... I was just trying to install edubuntu for my kids
<aikido> I've just installed ubuntu in my pc a month ago, and I liked
<aikido> as you can see I'm a begineer with linux
<LaserJock> hmm, you might try asking #ubuntu for more help
<LaserJock> I doubt it is a problem specific to Edubuntu
<aikido> Laser, you know what??? I've just changed my monitor and it seems to be the problem
<LaserJock> 256MB of ram is kind of at the limit for the LiveCD
<LaserJock> oh?
<aikido> may be the refresh rate, I dont know
<aikido> any way I really appreciate your help
<aikido> thanks !!!
<LaserJock> aikido: no problem, I didn't do much :-)
#edubuntu 2006-12-06
<nixternal> anyone gets a chance, on the ubuntu doc svn repos, trunk, i changed up the edubuntu handbook big time. trying to follow more the current guide layouts. it validates and builds, but i want to tweak the layout to make it look good
<nixternal> plus, i did it this way, because in the future, we, the ubuntu doc project, is looking at converting to topic based help systems, and it will be a little easier to convert the handbook at that time
<dawkirst> Hi people. I am looking for a good application that can teach maths - maybe as an interactive game form, or something similar...any suggestions.
<dawkirst> I have checked out TuxMath, btw.
<wizzy> My Thin clients get the server as a hostname - what have I done wrong in dhcpd.conf ? I have tried "use-host-decl-names on;"
<kihai> Does anybody know how to hide network printers from ltsp users. I have two network printers installed on the server, but only want the ltsp clients to use on of them...
<kihai> ...one of them...
<juliux> kihai, you can deny the iprange of the clients in the cups configs, if you are using cups
<kihai> You mean via the cups webinterface?
<Elwell> kihai: in the config files too - v much like the apache ones (allow, deny)
<kihai> OK, found the setting in the cups menu. Just used the gnome printer config tool and almost forgot about the webinterface. Problem solved -> Big Thanx!
<rockprincess> hello all! today is the day :)
<rockprincess> i will hopefully dispose edubuntu :)
<RichEd> rockprincess: dispose edubuntu ? get rid of edubuntu ????
<rockprincess> RichEd: haha oh god no! I want to make people convert to edubuntu and get rid off windows....i'm having  an edubuntu presentation today...my very first edubuntu presentation, so i'm a bit nervous...
<RichEd> Great. I was watching some of your conversation yesterday with Kamping_Kaiser ... you're in Austria aren't you ?
<rockprincess> RichEd: yep indeed :)
<rockprincess> RichEd: have you held presentations about edubuntu before? where are you from?
<RichEd> rockprincess: sorry ... was caught up in another channel
<rockprincess> RichEd: no worries ;)
<RichEd> I've been away from the channel, travelling for work for a few weeks, but I am the Education Programme Manager for all Ubuntu variants ... with Edubuntu being our main product.
<juliux> rockprincess, if you need a presentation about ubuntu and edubuntu ask ogra or me ;)
<RichEd> Yes, I have done 2 Edubuntu presentations ... do you need some help ??
<RichEd> rockprincess: I also wanted to ask you if you were prepared to help with drawing up a Country Page for Austria ? Juliux and I are preparing a template to list country details, a local Education 1st Line Contact, and a way to collect stories & news.
<rockprincess> if this presentation goes as planned, this could be the beginning of something very big.......because i'm planning to write my BSc Assignment about Free/Open Source Software, especially Edubuntu, for Schools....and I'm planning to do a field study...
<rockprincess> RichEd: of course I'd love to do that....
<RichEd> rockprincess: let me know how we can help you with this ... this is good news for us and you :)
<RichEd> rockprincess: send me a mail to riched@ubuntu.com with your real name and nick ... I'll send you some more info in the next week or so.
<rockprincess> the plan for today is, that I'm visiting my old high school and introduce my old IT teacher to edubuntu, make her familiar with it, let her play around on my laptop and convince her to let me install edubuntu on atleast 2 machines....
<RichEd> And you asked where I am from: Cape Town, South Africa
<rockprincess> excellent, that'd be great RichEd
<rockprincess> wow, very cool!
<RichEd> very warm actually ;) 24 degrees C today
<RichEd> rockprincess: that's a good place to start ... one or two workstations on the existing network, to show people:
<RichEd> #1 open source is not as scary as people think
<rockprincess> if she agrees, i'll have to get in touch with a professor at my uni and suggest this topic for my BSc assignment.....and if he/she agrees then i can start working on it :)
<juliux> rockprincess, if she ask about the cost or hardware take a look at http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntu/Konzept i will update this page in the next weeks
<RichEd> #2 open source workstations can fit with existing security and shared drives etc.
<rockprincess> excellent, thanks for the Link Juliux!
<RichEd> #3 it is not a big bang decision about open source OR windows ... but both can exist side by aside, and then open source can naturally become the majority over time
<juliux> rockprincess, the prices are a little bit old so i will update the page if we have ne vat in germany
<RichEd> that takes away the 3 biggest concerns about getting started with open source
<rockprincess> RichEd: actually the idea came from 2 videos....the Codebreaker video and a german/english documentation called "Codeword Linux"
<RichEd> rockprincess: also show her this article
<RichEd> http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=687
<rockprincess> RichEd: sure there are also open source programs for windows aswell (sourceforge.net!)
<RichEd> ^^ That was written by our Community Manager
<juliux> rockprincess, there is also an arikle about edubuntu in the linuxuser, see http://www.linux-user.de/ausgabe/2006/12/068-edubuntu/index.html
<rockprincess> Juliux: cool thanks for that...but i think the hardware isn't even their biggest concern, as most schools in austria get sponsored by the austrian government?!
<rockprincess> juliux: hehe i've bought this issue of linux-users myself and will show her that article to back up my reasons :)
<juliux> rockprincess, that is a great situation in austria
<RichEd> rockprincess: that info above is the sort of stuff we would like to collect about each country ... what sort of hardware situation, is IT decision a national or local decision, is there any open source drive by government in schools, or in other government areas, does MS provide "free licences" etc.
<RichEd> For your presentation today ... it is just one-on-one with your ex-teacher ?
<rockprincess> yeah that's my goal as well...that's what i want to research as well.....if they're giving free licences by microsoft...and actually comparing it to Richard Stallman's article about FOSS in Schools
<rockprincess> yep, it's just a one-on-one
<RichEd> Great ... you and I must chat about the exact topic you want to explore ... in a way that the results will have the greatest impact for Open Source and education.
<RichEd> For example, I say to people, if we move 5 years into the future, then we know there *will* be a reasonable number of Open Source machines in some MS schools, and a reasonable number of schools with Open Source as the primary or majority operating system.
<rockprincess> yeah that's why I was hoping to get some help on here, because I've read some stuff about Open Source Software about of course not everything there is need to know....and I'm sure there will be loads more....
<rockprincess> Juliux: have you read this article? http://zim.informatik.uni-bremen.de/index.php?n=Main.Open-SourceInSchulen
<willvdl> ola compadres
<RichEd> So from my coment above, an interesting angle for your topic could be: "The impact of the introduction of Open Source into the existing Education ICT Programme."
<rockprincess> RichEd: would you recommend to focus on the digital divide and the less privileged countries? would this be a good idea? i can imagine it would be interesting but also quite hard to get the information from?!
<RichEd> rockprincess: too many people have dived into that, and it ends up being yet another study on an "emotive issue" ...
<RichEd> the impact of open source on your *own* country is far more intetresting and realistic ... as a result of your study, meaningful change could be spurred
<RichEd> hey willvdl  ... we still on for that meeting ?
<RichEd> i.e. if you show that the impact in the "perceived problem areas" is "no problem"
<RichEd> and the impact in the "positive areas" is "very good for education" ...
<rockprincess> true of course that will be interesting, but I'm wondering if this would be enough for the assignment.....
<willvdl> RichEd, yeah what time?
<RichEd> Then your study can be used to discuss policy with your government ... where we could come across to have a meeting with you and them.
<RichEd> rockprincess: send me some details, how long is the assignment, what form is the submission, how long do you have to do it ?
<rockprincess> cool, these are all cool and clever ideas....ideas that i would have never thought of!! thanks a lot! :))))
<rockprincess> yeah sure, I'll do that as soon as I got in touch with my uni professor (hopefully by next week), then I'll find out more details.....
<RichEd> willvdl: I have a 1:30 - 2:30 appointment and also need to get to marilize to collect some CDs to give to HP tonight ... I am seeing my ex-bosses (SA Education Country Manager and ISE Region Manager) ISE covers Africa as well.
<RichEd> willvdl: I don't suppose you have any plans to come to Cape Town this evening do you ?
<rockprincess> RichEd: I have a rough concept/ideas of what I've thought of so far, I will translate it into english and then send it to you, would that be ok?
<willvdl> RichEd, <---msg
<RichEd> rockprincess: no problem at all ... note that the issues around adoption of open source in education go far deeper than just "an equivalent or superior desktop"
<rockprincess> RichEd: excellent....hehe of course.....i think a good start would be to find some good literature...to actually get some good knowledge before I can start working on it, don't you think?
<RichEd> it's the soft issues like training, support, perceptions of security, what happens to the students existing data on our storage servers ? can they use a windows workstation and then an edubuntu workstation to access and save the same documents.
<willvdl> and the training/skill set migration
<RichEd> rockprincess: I'll wait for your outline email, and then we can chat ... it will be easier to discuss a "leverage point", than to point you towards general info ...
<rockprincess> ok, good idea...I'm almost finished with the translation of the concept...
<RichEd> What univeristy are you at ? And what are your BSc Majors ?
<rockprincess> I'm studying Computer science and Multimedia at the University of Technology in Vienna. My Majors are in "Design", it's not really definied by the university....they don't really have a concept here, as my year is the first year that was introduced to Bachelor....
<rockprincess> RichEd: do you want the concept as a PDF or as a ODT Open Office Document?
<RichEd> rockprincess: whatever is easiest ... I can read either ... but can only edit ODT
<rockprincess> RichEd: ok, thought so it would be the best way to send it as a odt
* RichEd nods
<rockprincess> ok, sent.....I'm sure there are millions of things that I forgot to mention.....or that I actually haven't thought of....
<RichEd> rockprincess: looks good ... it has quite a few concepts and actions that we are already looking at
<rockprincess> RichEd: really? what are these?
<RichEd> What would be a big help is if you could also outline the "work & submission requirement" for your assignment. So I get an idea of how much effort you are supposed to put in, and how much research, and how much hands-on testing or discussing with teachers etc.
<RichEd> #1 What package doesn't exist, that could be useful? (Suggestions to the edubuntu-dev Team) = Edulinux project we are busy with
<rockprincess> Yeah, I will sort that out as soon as possible!
<RichEd> #2 Perhaps applications could be specifically developed to suit the european/austrian syllabus of instruction? (note to self: get the local syllabus!) BIG question ... looking at this from a slightly different perspective, again in the same project above
<rockprincess> Edulinux, so that doesn't just involve Edubuntu, but also other distributions (e.g Skole Linux?!)
<rockprincess> I see
<RichEd> We are looking at defining unique Learning Objects ... for example ... "The Theory of Simple Harmonic Motion"
<RichEd> Then the same learning objects can be packaged into Lesson Plans ...
<RichEd> Lesson Plans can be packaged into Courses ... where courses address a syllabus.
<rockprincess> ok, what would be helpful from my side then?
<RichEd> So the packaging for Austria would be different to say England, but the Learning Objects would be reusable and valid ... so the only thing that changes is the meta-map (and languages)
<rockprincess> ahh clever idea!
<RichEd> #3 What packages are available for KDE and Gnome? <- we are addressing this with our UbuntuEducation community area we are creating, where we will encourage teachers and interested people to provide us & contribute to a list of open source applications which will be kept on a public web site.
<RichEd> We will then process the list of applications in various categories of promotion, with criteria for passing from category to category as follows:
<rockprincess> excellent...I've mentioned these two links of KDE and Gnome, but i, for myself, think that it's not clearly laid out enough...especially the Gnome Link....so a public website would be helpful!
<RichEd> Applications we Bundle (on CD) < Applications we Package in Uni/Multi-verse Bundle < Applications we Recommend < Applications we have Tested < Applications we have Reviewed < Applications we are Aware of |
<RichEd> Read from right to left
<rockprincess> cool, will there be an option to submit ideas for future applications?
<RichEd> ^^ Edulinux ... this is a project funded by the EU where Canonical is the Open Source Platform Partner. It is looking at ICT from a pedagogicl requirements approach, with 6 learning institutions in 6 countries.
<RichEd> rockprincess: yep ... we will have a wish list section ... because someone may say "Hey that exists ... it is called _ _ _ _ "
<RichEd> And if it does not exist, but 500 teachers and 30 schools say "we wish it did" ... then it surely is needed, and we shoudl see how we can make it come together.
<rockprincess> hmm how come if i google for "Edulinux" i only find this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EduLinux and spanish and french information about it?
<rockprincess> excellent ;)
<RichEd> (Either we develop it, or we look to a partner or community who can)
<RichEd> Edulinux is the name chosen by the person who motivated the project. He did not know it was already in use. We are looking for an alternative name. There is not much public info as yet ... we have just had the 1st project kick-off meeting in Poland 2 weeks ago. I'll have a wiki page up soon on wiki.edubuntu.org
<rockprincess> this is all useful/helpful information, i feel like i should provide this log for my assignment....do you have any problems if i quote you on some things you mentioned above and in future?
<RichEd> Not a problem :)
<RichEd> It's been good chatting ... but I need to get some work underway before an appointment I leave for in 10 mins. Send me the assignment work requirement, and we can chat more formally after that.
<juliux> rockprincess, there is a public log from this channel;)
<juliux> rockprincess, so everybody can read it
<rockprincess> juliux: great, where is it?
<juliux> !log
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<rockprincess> RichEd: yeah, thanks for all your help and advice, I really appreciate it!
<rockprincess> RichEd: and good luck for the appointment!
<rockprincess> Danke Juliux! :)
<RichEd> thanks
<juliux> rockprincess, good luck with your school;)
<rockprincess> juliux: thank you :) if this goes as planned, then it will hopefully be a great day for open source and edubuntu :)
<kihai> Anyone experiencing any difficulties with ltsp and xorg? If some of my ltsp clients log off gnome, X suddenly hangs showing only a grey screen with a non moving mousepointer. Keyboard inputs are not accepted anymore and all I can do is log into the client via ssh or restart it with Alt+Print+B. top on the client shows me a load of around 99% Cpu time for the Xorg process, but the /var/log/XOrg.6.log only shows errors (Error opening /dev/wacom, Could not init 
* RichEd is out for an hour
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<kihai> Can somebody help me with my ltsp problem? When users log off (from their gnome session on client pcs) and forget to close all windows before (Especially firefox, but I'm just guessing this) the XOrg process goes up to 99% cpu and the client isn't reacting anymore. Obviously something goes wrong during saving of a user's session and this kills X. What could I do???
<kihai> Is everyone still asleep? :)
<bddebian> Heya
<stgraber> hi
<jpduyx> can i change the screen resolution to 800x600 for a ltsp client ?
<jpduyx> ahhh i found the file /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf.readme
<jpduyx> that will do i hope, tnx
* nixternal needs to start playing again with LTSP
<rockprincess> hello all!
<cbx33> Hey all
* cbx33 just got voted chair of the Southern ICT Technical Panel ;)
<crimsun> 'grats!
<cbx33> I'm hoping to clout everyone with open source
<cbx33> but I got a stern warning from some people who work for the Local Education Authority
<cbx33> in other words.....they only support Microsoft
<cbx33> so if something goes wrong dont expect them to support it
<cbx33> thanks crimsun
<LaserJock> cbx33: congrates
<cbx33> thanky
<nixternal> cool cbx33 !
<nixternal> wasabi everyone :)
<cbx33> hi nixternal
<nixternal> well if you are the chair, then your first order of business should be to remove the "Microsoft" people ;p
* nixternal searches for today's meeting agenda
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> unfortunately it's not a panel like that
<nixternal> oh well, it was worth a shot
<nixternal> ooh i am excited. my c++ courses start next month..and the first program we do, isn't "Hello World"
<nixternal> woohoo
<nixternal> i wish sbalneav (spelling?) was around. i did a ton of handbook work yesterday in the ubuntu doc repo and i would like to port it over so he can continue working from the new layout
<cbx33> ooooh excellent
<cbx33> you're a tar nixternal
<nixternal> hahaa
<cbx33> a star that should have been
<nixternal> no, i like tar better
<nixternal> means i have more work to do before becoming a star
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> I'm an r
<nixternal> ya, i don't even know if i have the r yet
<cbx33> heheh
<nixternal> well cbx33, when it comes to edubuntu, you definitely got the r, otherwise you wouldn't be a member :)
<crimsun> neat, I don't even have the 'r' ;)
<cbx33> crimsun, you got the whole damn alphabet ;)
<cbx33> ping ogra
<crimsun> wow, is that like short school bus special?
<nixternal> hahahaha
<cbx33> bbl
<rockprincess> hello everyone!
<rockprincess> where's richEd?
<rockprincess> Juliux!
<juliux> hi rockprincess
<Dheeraj_k> hi is ubuntu human theme available on repo?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> Dheeraj_k: are you running Dapper or Edgy?
<Dheeraj_k> i am using dapper
<LaserJock> Dheeraj_k: then I would install ubuntu-artwork
<Dheeraj_k> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-human?
<juliux> re
<Dheeraj_k> actually i am looking for default ubuntu theme for edubuntu
<Dheeraj_k> and artwork is already installed on my pc
<Dheeraj_k> any 1?
<LaserJock> Dheeraj_k: I don't quite understand what you are wanting
<LaserJock> you want the Ubuntu Human theme on Edubuntu?
<Dheeraj_k> default ubuntu icon theme for edubuntu
<LaserJock> did you install ubuntu-artwork?
<Dheeraj_k> yes i did
<Dheeraj_k> yday
<LaserJock> ok, and so then did you find the theme?
<Dheeraj_k> actually it update theme info by connecting to net but problem is i am on gprs so it will take lots of time to update the list
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't really understand
<Dheeraj_k> gprs is a slow internet connection
<LaserJock> if you have ubuntu-artwork installed you should be able to go into System->Preferences->Theme
<LaserJock> I know, I just don't know what you mean by "update theme info"
<Dheeraj_k> but that theme is not available there
<LaserJock> there is nothing that looks like it?
<Dheeraj_k> LaserJock: didn't found any :(
<LaserJock> I don't have a Dapper machine around, I can't quite remember what it's called
<Dheeraj_k> human
<Dheeraj_k> ubuntu-human
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure if it's called human in the theme manager
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure if you have ubuntu-artwork installed it will be there
<Dheeraj_k> actually i installed edubuntu desktop on kubuntu
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> are you logged into KDE or Gnome?
<Dheeraj_k> and it doesnot have default ubuntu theme
<Dheeraj_k> gnome
<Dheeraj_k> can u pls send that theme to me? or default edge theme?
<LaserJock> if you have installed ubuntu-artwork you have it
<LaserJock> have you logged out and logged back in?
<LaserJock> sometimes that refreshes things
<Dheeraj_k> i just checked this folder  /usr/share/themes but i dosen't has any folder with name human
<LaserJock> ok, are you sure ubuntu-artwork is installed?
<LaserJock> hmm
<Dheeraj_k> i am reinstalling  ubuntu-artwork i hope it will work this time
<ogra> cbx33, pong
<ogra> ************ REMINDER edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 5min **************
<cbx33> heheh
<highvoltage> hi cbx33 and ogra
<cbx33> hey highvoltage
<ogra> ************ edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting starts now **************
<tideline> anyone know what hi and si percentages are in the cpu line when you run top
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> Hi
<cbx33> is hardware interrupts
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> Hardware IRQ
<tideline> cbx33: nm I found it - hi = interrupt and si = software interrupt
<cbx33> ;)
<tideline> thanks for the reply though
#edubuntu 2006-12-07
<nixternal> heh, i blogged about the Handbook, and said that is was raw, in a draft stage, and no proofreading had been done or is not in order until all of the content is there
<nixternal> the first reply. spelling mistake :\
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> that's rather funny
<nixternal> figures you would find that funny
<nixternal> im sittin' in class, and the teacher is a GTK+ freak, and actually "bah'd" KDE
* HedgeMage peeks in
<rockprincess> good morning everyone!
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi :)
<rockprincess> hello Kamping_Kaiser.....it's probably late afternoon at yours right now, is it?!
<Kamping_Kaiser> technically evening :)
<rockprincess> hehe ok ;)
* Kamping_Kaiser is sunburned to ouchery
<rockprincess> ouch! didn't your mom tell you to use sunmilk? ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh. we cant reach the sun to milk it here :\
<Kamping_Kaiser> we only get the hot, you guys are close enough to reach :P
<Kamping_Kaiser> *its you
<rockprincess> awww
<juliux> morning
<rockprincess> good morning Juliux!
<juliux> hey rockprincess
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey :)
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: but you do have a bit of shadow too, do you?!
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, only if you live close to uluru ;)
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: and where abouts in australia are you living?
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, a place called the adelaide hills, in south australia
* Kamping_Kaiser grabs link
<rockprincess> ahhh adelaide i've heard of that before!
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> *curses super slow interweb*
<Kamping_Kaiser> i want to link you to a googlemaps map
<Kamping_Kaiser> its taking a zillino years to work
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Blundy+Way,+Littlehampton,+SA+5250,+Australia&sll=-35.050769,138.86296&sspn=0.00592,0.010064&ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=-35.050771,138.86296&spn=0.00592,0.013561&om=1&iwloc=addr
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. that will give a map. just hit satalite for a view
<rockprincess> ahhh now i know where you live :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<rockprincess> so you live by the coast?
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, about an 45 min/ 1hours drive (so yes)
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, i walked this beach twice yesterday http://maps.google.com/maps?q=S+34%C3%82%C2%B0+43',+E+139%C3%82%C2%B0+2'&hl=en&ie=UTF8&z=13&ll=-35.000472,138.515968&spn=0.103212,0.21698&t=k&om=1&iwloc=addr
<Kamping_Kaiser> hence my burn :)
* Kamping_Kaiser gets out ruler to measure distance
<Kamping_Kaiser> or would, iv i hadnt lost it
<rockprincess> ace, i've just tried to find googlemaps of where i live.....but it seems like it doesn't work properly...
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh.
<mhz> moin all!
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey mhz :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=austria&ie=UTF8&z=6&om=1 close enough ;)
<mhz> hi there Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> how are you? (havent seen you for a while)
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: you call that close enough??? that's not even close to being close ;))) haha
<mhz> yeah, been crazy, looking for a job, and the one I ended up with, demands a lot of attention and time
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol.
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, it cant be hard to find from tehre :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> mhz, ah right. you got a break from work for hols now, or  just got some spare time today?
<rockprincess> kamping_kaiser: i think i've found it, but only by zooming...so i have no proper link :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, therse a link button on the top right
<rockprincess> kamping_kaiser: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=de&q=sch6nbrunn+vienna,+austria&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=48.182827,16.309848&spn=0.0192,0.038452&t=h&om=1
<rockprincess> kamping_kaiser: url to this site :D ha found it ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :D
<rockprincess> kamping_kaiser: haha it even looks like i'm living in a huge castle :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, i was going to ask  ;)
<rockprincess> kamping_kaiser: that's about where i live... http://www.schoenbrunn.at/en/site/publicdir/ .... well a 2 minutes walk from my home...
<Kamping_Kaiser> sweet
<rockprincess> kamping_kaiser: right now they've set up this christmas market in front of the castle... http://www.schoenbrunn.at/en/site/publicdir/res/253686_60311_Baum_und_Schloss_xmas_50dpi.jpg
<rockprincess> it looks magnificent :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> awwwww. :( *wants*
<mhz> Kamping_Kaiser: nope, no rest for the evil ;) It's just that I have just called the night off from work (it's 06:00 AM here) and now I have to report everything I did, so a friend of mine lent me his keys to his internet cafe.
<Kamping_Kaiser> mhz, omg. thats harsh :S hope you can stand the work
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, do you have stupid patent laws in austria/eu?
<juliux> Kamping_Kaiser, softwarepatent not yet
* Kamping_Kaiser starts packing his bags
<juliux> Kamping_Kaiser, but they are working on it:(
<rockprincess> kamping_kaiser: not that i know of....
<Kamping_Kaiser> juliux, :(
<rockprincess> yeah
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders where else there is to go
<juliux> Kamping_Kaiser, and it is a very stupid patent syste, you can get a patent at the progessbar
<Kamping_Kaiser> juliux, of course... there are existing patents on double click (and such things)
<Kamping_Kaiser> scrolling bar thigns (like the side of a gnome-terminal)
<juliux> yep very stupid
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders how the EU can do something as stupid as agree to it
<juliux> hm money from microsoft and other comapnies;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh. MS is *still* paying 2mill $EU a day
<stgraber> morning
<Kamping_Kaiser> gday
<Kamping_Kaiser> *sht*, i'm 300 emails behind on debian-legal... i dont want to think about -devel :S
<stgraber> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :P
<ajmitch> you try & keep up with them? why?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ajmitch, i try to keep in touch... but i let it slip quite a bit recently
<Kamping_Kaiser> (in touch by observation only)
* ajmitch just reads bits of interesting threads on -devel
<ajmitch> -legal is a waste of time, I find
<Kamping_Kaiser> -legal is amusing
<willvdl> hey all
<juliux> hey willvdl
<juliux> hi cbx33
<juliux> cbx33, keep on making good ubuntu sounds!
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> you really think?
<juliux> yes
<juliux> i love your sounds
<cbx33> awww thanky
<juliux> normaly the first thing on a fresh installed ubuntu is to turn off all sounds
<cbx33> can you comment on the blog :p
<juliux> but the edgy start sound is still on
<cbx33> thanks juliux
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> anyone ever done vnc forwarding over http before?
<jsgotangco> hey
<cbx33> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> cbx33: hey dude how are you doing?
<cbx33> yeh I'm good
<cbx33> ping ogra
<hamada99> hi all
<hamada99> anybody alive
* willvdl looks for sepedi language pack for OOo
<bddebian> Heya
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<kalann> Hi ogra, have you set up the moodle server yet? Karl from Sweden
<cbx33> hey ogra
<cbx33> Hi LaserJock
<cbx33> Hi everybody
<stgraber> hi
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<stgraber> LaserJock: do you have some minutes to review my package ? :)
<cbx33> howz it going stgraber ;)
<LaserJock> argg
<cbx33> oooh what package you working on?
<LaserJock> stgraber: what's the url?
<cbx33> want me to have a look too?
<stgraber> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3613
<stgraber> cbx33: fine, things are gently moving from the LUG point of view in my region, that's a good thing
<cbx33> what standards version are we now?
<cbx33> nice
<LaserJock> 3.7.2
<cbx33> looks good on an initial pass
<LaserJock> that's about the most simple package I've seen
<LaserJock> awesome
<stgraber> :)
<stgraber> not complicated at all but quite useful in fact
<stgraber> the python code isn't more complicated than the package :)
<cbx33> stgraber, does it follow the debian python policy?
<stgraber> Except that it isn't a bytecode package the rest is respected yes
<LaserJock> I wonder if you even need the Provides:
<cbx33> good good
<stgraber> yes, I wondered that as well :)
<cbx33> heh
<stgraber> I read the somewhere but that's more for a module than a software I think
<LaserJock> yeah, basically you just need to dep on python
<cbx33> yeh, or one that includes a module at any rate
<cbx33> looks good
<cbx33> gimme a min and I can advocate.....unless LaserJock  sees any other problem?
<LaserJock> I want to check the Python Policy a little real quick
<cbx33> can you send me a link to it....I wanted to check one thing too
<stgraber> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<cbx33> thats the one
<stgraber> and there is also a link at the top of it
<LaserJock> I think you want to drop the Provides: and add XB-Python-Version: ${python:Versions}
<stgraber> ok, I'm doing it
<cbx33> yes I agree
<stgraber> Anything else you see ?
<LaserJock> also can you wrap the URLs in the description a little better
<LaserJock> keeping lines to 80 characters is a good idea
<LaserJock> just makes it more readable for synaptic, etc.
<stgraber> any line number limitation ?
<stgraber> if not I can put one URL/line
<LaserJock> that's what I would do
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> what about changelog?
<stgraber> Anything wrong with it ?
<stgraber> Should I add something ?
<cbx33> just the long line
<stgraber> ok, let me cut it :)
<cbx33> wondered if LaserJock  thought it a good idea to apply the same method there too
<LaserJock> yeah
<cbx33> ;)
<LaserJock> it's good to just bulletpoint the items
<cbx33> indeed
<LaserJock> * New version upstream
<cbx33>  * this
<cbx33> heh
<LaserJock>   - change the default Pastebin
<cbx33> couldn't have planned that better
<LaserJock>  - fix a bug with paste.ubuntu-nl.org
<LaserJock>  - add support of regexp
<stgraber> ok, changelog is fixed, anything else you see ?
<cbx33> not at the moment
<stgraber> ok
<cbx33> LaserJock, ?
<LaserJock> haha, it even works
<cbx33> :p
<LaserJock> although how do you tell it what pastebin to send to?
<cbx33> you expected anything less ;)
<LaserJock> stgraber: upload it to revu again
<stgraber> LaserJock: that's in the man page ... :) echo "test" | pastebinit - http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org
<LaserJock> you should make that configurable in the 0.7 release ;-)
<cbx33> stgraber, a usage might be useful for the bin
<cbx33> oh sorry
<cbx33> i see it now
<cbx33> :p
<stgraber> cbx33: you got one if you put no params :)
<stgraber> hehe :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> good job
<cbx33> I'll advocate once on REVU
<stgraber> it's uploaded so it will be shown in 5 minutes or so
<cbx33> nice
<LaserJock> hehe, when I run lintian  on the .deb I get:
<LaserJock> W: pastebinit: extended-description-line-too-long
<stgraber> strange, I usually check the files with lintian ...
<cbx33> hehe
<stgraber> maybe I didn't do that time :)
<cbx33> hehehe
<LaserJock> stgraber: I do a lot of reviewing by simply running lintian -i on the .dsc and .deb
<cbx33> I check the lintian logs on REVU too ;)
<LaserJock> usually people clean up the source ones
<LaserJock> but the .deb usually is revealing ;-)
<cbx33> heh
<stgraber> hmm, lintian is giving me some warnings here
<LaserJock> cbx33: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3703
<LaserJock> stgraber: what kind of warnings?
<stgraber> W: pastebinit: possible-unindented-list-in-extended-description
<stgraber> W: pastebinit: latest-debian-changelog-entry-without-new-date
<LaserJock> ah, the second one is because the date/time are exactly the same for your 2 changelog entries
<cbx33> heh
<LaserJock> use dch to create a new one
<cbx33> ahh good old dch
<LaserJock> to fix that in the future
<stgraber> lol, I forgot to change it :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: for the first one I think you can take out the - in front of each url in the description
<stgraber> I'm uploading it
<stgraber> lintian is happy now
<cbx33> nice
<stgraber> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3705
<LaserJock> ok, I'm happy
* cbx33 too
<cbx33> advocating
<Dheeraj_k>  is java slow in ubuntu?
<cbx33> ping ogra
<LaserJock> Dheeraj_k: no more then in other Linux distros I don't think
<Dheeraj_k> ping cbx33 :p
<cbx33> pong Dheeraj_k what can I do for you
<Dheeraj_k> LaserJock:  it is taking more than 40 second to compile program like helloworld !
<Dheeraj_k> but when i compile the same program in windows it takes only 2-3 second
<Dheeraj_k> i am using jdk of sun
<Dheeraj_k> version javac 1.5.0_06
<LaserJock> I'm really not sure
<Dheeraj_k> cbx33: do u have any idea about it?
<cbx33> no sorry
<cbx33> I'm a python man
<rockprincess> Dheerja_k: haven't noticed yet that Java is slow on ubuntu
<LaserJock> stgraber: uploaded, it will now go in the NEW queue (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+queue) for review by the archive admins
<stgraber> ok, thank you very much
<LaserJock> np, thanks for doing it
<LaserJock> it's about the first thing I've sponsored that I'll actually use
<LaserJock> ;-)
<stgraber> :)
<stgraber> It's really helpful when installed in the LTSP chroot
<stgraber> if you have some problems on a thin client
<cbx33> will it support pastebin.ca
<cbx33> that is my fav as it's sooooo fast
<LaserJock> yeah, once it gets in we can file bugs :-)
<cbx33> heheh
<stgraber> actually pastebin.com is really really slow, pastebin.ca is quite fase, ubuntu-nl.org as well but they are working on it then I don't know how much time my soft will still work with it, and mine (paste.stgraber.org) should be quite fast as well (and not break the compatibility with pastebinit too often :))
<stgraber> Woaaa !!!, Feisty has swiss french keyboard again !!! :)
<stgraber> I had to patch all the Edgy isos to add the swiss-french keyboard (after someone thought that all swiss keyboard are the same :))
<Dheeraj_1> ubuntu is too slow for java i just switched back to windows :(
<rockprincess> Dheeraj_1 i had a similar problem, i couldn't get the JMF working on kubuntu, that's why i switched back to windows for java only...
<LaserJock> seems odd
<LaserJock> we have lots of Java apps that run fine
<rockprincess> yeah java apps do run fine....but i actually have problems with compiling the source code, so i think there must be an issue with the classpath...
<LaserJock> could be
<rockprincess> i'm off for now...good night all!
<Dheeraj_1> i have problem in compiling java code in ubuntu it slow down the pc and take long time to compile
<LaserJock> Dheeraj_1: you should try #ubuntu or perhaps http://ubuntuforums.org
<Dheeraj_1> at the mov i am doing google to find the sollution
<Dheeraj_1> not only the compiling but java program too is very slow in ubuntu :( http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=183239
<cbx33> where's edubuntugirl when you need her
<willvdl> urk
<cbx33> can anyone tell ogra when he next arrives...I'm sorry I have to go....
<cbx33> and that we'll have to reschedule
<JJAUA> hi, what's the best format for a partition which is shared by windows and edubuntu? Fat32 or Ext2?
<CyberT3> I need help on how to connect to a wired encrypted network, my friend forced me to switch to linux, but I cant use network anymore. I used to use SecureW2....
<LaserJock> JJAUA: Fat32
<LaserJock> JJAUA: but make it a seperate partition from the root (/) one for Edubuntu
<LaserJock> CyberT3: try #ubuntu, there are a lot more people there
<JJAUA> thanks... what about mounting/connecting to networkdives with shared files?
<JJAUA> or is it done with TCP/IP protocol?
<CyberT3> LaserJock, too much crowd there to get help :(
<JJAUA> CyberT3. i saw your message in #ubuntu... i tried it too but was only able to connect to wireless network with WEP
<CyberT3> ah
* CyberT3 is afraid he'll have to switch back :(
<JJAUA> CyberT3 whatabout ext2/3 use with Ext2IFS ???
<CyberT3> it doesnt make any sense :P
<Burgwork> http://plugment.net/2006/12/02/setting-up-an-edubuntu-thin-client-network-in-a-community-school/
<willvdl> Burgwork, cool story
<Burgwork> indeecx
<Burgwork> you asked to join the -doc team
<Burgwork> we use membership in that team to indicate whether you have write access to the svn repo
#edubuntu 2006-12-08
<nixternal> i just updated the binaryredneck svn with the latest handbook layout. if you have made changes to the old layout, go ahead and work in the C.old/ directory, and let me know when you upload so I can remerge
<LaserJock> RichEd: you actually here?
<RichEd> hi LaserJock ... yep
<LaserJock> cool, I haven't seen you for a while
<RichEd> Was travelling to meetings ... now trying to catch up with old work & new work coming in.
<LaserJock> yeah, ogra said a little bit about the Poland conf
<highvoltage> laser.. laser.. away!
<Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
<Burgundavia> see you made tectonic
<highvoltage> hey Burgundavia
<cbx33> ping ogra
<MotherLUG> Evening
<MotherLUG> cafuego_, Kamping_Kaiser .  Hi guys, I discovered a little hiccup with Edubuntu, can you direct me to the correct person to chat with please
<Kamping_Kaiser> MotherLUG, depends on the hickup.
<MotherLUG> A game that is installed by default, that I don't think should be
<Kamping_Kaiser> MotherLUG, hm. well the usual responce is file a bug, but also ping ogra_ , as he should know what to do better then me
<MotherLUG> Kamping_Kaiser, I now have an 8yr old addicted to Blackjack
<MotherLUG> Kamping_Kaiser, I don't knwo how to file a bug report
<Kamping_Kaiser> MotherLUG, ah yeh. give ogra_  a ping.
* Kamping_Kaiser will bb in 5-10 min as kgoetz
* Kamping_Kaiser will be off from here soon
<MotherLUG> ogra_, ping
<Bambi_Bofh> hm. cant connect to my shell.
<Bambi_Bofh> suppose this will have to do (its Kamping_Kaiser )
<highvoltage> 4
<Bambi_Bofh> 4?
<highvoltage> yes!
<highvoltage> sorry, was a fluke of a slow connection, that
<Bambi_Bofh> lol
<ogra_> MotherLUG, create a dedicated user for your daughter and use the menu editor to delete blackjack :)
<Bambi_Bofh> ah, i'm back
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi ogra_
<MotherLUG> ogra_, thankyou.
<ogra_> MotherLUG, i'd disable it if i could, but its part of gnome-games so either all of them go or none of them ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra_, thats a nusense. would patching out the .desktop file be more work then its worth?
<ogra_> well, it would work, but then you wouldnt be able to enable it again ...
<MotherLUG> ogra_, ahhh, I was wondering which packet it was in, that's a bit of a poo poo
<ogra_> i'll look into it, we can probably disable it by default from the menu at least
<ogra_> a bug about it as reminder would be nice
<MotherLUG> ogra_, that sounds like a brilliant idea.  I'll try and submit a bug for it
<Kamping_Kaiser> MotherLUG, if you need a hand just ask
* Kamping_Kaiser can probably still remember how ;)
* Kamping_Kaiser goes to play njam. back in 5-10
<MotherLUG> Kamping_Kaiser, Thanks for the offer. I will definately holler if needed
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. didnt go so well that turn.
<cbx33> ogra_: did i get the time wrong for the meeting
<RichEd> hi LaserJock ... yep
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hallo
<bddebian> Heya
<juliux> hi all
<juliux> where are all the old e-mail on the edubuntu-user mailingliste from?
<Kamping_Kaiser> how old?
<ogra_> juliux, i think highvoltage cleaned out the filters ...
<juliux> Kamping_Kaiser, from june:(
<juliux> ogra_, ah ok
<Kamping_Kaiser> wow. backlog from june is a bit intence o_0
<highvoltage> hmmm?
<rockprincess> oh my god i found some information.... http://www.bmbwk.gv.at/schulen/unterricht/it/Microsoft_Fit_for_the_Future.xml .... these are prices for students at high schools and colleges, if they want to purchase a license for their home.....80 Euros for Windows XP Professional Upgrade inkl. SP2*, which is just an UPGRADE...this means you have to own a full version of Windows OEM or System Builder License already at home...
<rockprincess> what a rip-off!
<sbalneav> ogra_: Ping!  Hey dude!  I got all my out of town offices running Edgy + LTSP5
<sbalneav> + Gnome
<sbalneav> rockprincess: Fortunately, you have alternatives :)
<rockprincess> sbalneav: true...but the hardest part is to convince schools and students that this is the right choice....settling onto open source!
<sbalneav> That's an ongoing battle.  I've found with most of the stuff that I've done, quiet persistence is the key.  That, and not overselling what Free software can do.  Always better to be realistic as to where it makes sense to fit in. :)
<rockprincess> for example?
<sbalneav> Well, we switched over to Linux + LTSP where I work.  In the beginning, I was quite clear that things would look different, and that not all programs that we had would work under Linux.  For us, the economic factors were key, so it was an acceptible compromise.
<sbalneav> Doing a show and tell's always nice.  Especially with a thin client lab.  We've seen a lot of people adopt Linux in schools based upon the fact that it ran on their current hardware.
<rockprincess> true....but I'm just worried that people (especially olderly people) will start complaining that things won't work as in windows and that they have to get used to different things than on their home computer, and people will start questioning whether or not it's useful to get kids to use free software in schools and then at home there will be using their proprietary windows again....they will have to get used to two
<rockprincess> different systems ....
<sbalneav> Kids are the least of your problems.  My kids use XP at school, and Ubuntu at home.  Both are comfortable for them to use, and, whats more, they'd rather use the home system, because "at least that works" as my son says.  Apparently, at any given time, half the computers in the lab at school are down at any given time :)
<rockprincess> hehe really how come?
<sbalneav> It's usually the adults that have the most bias.  Kids just don't care what they use: they figure things out very quickly, because they don't have a pre-conceived notion of what a copmputer should "look like"
<sbalneav> Viruses, and their security lockdown mechanism.  Apparently, if a student downloads too much information from the internet (plugins I expect) it locks up the box, and they have to wait a week for a School Division technician to come out and fix it. :)
<rockprincess> you say kids are the least problem.....ok, let's just imagine the following cenario...what if a kid has decided to put edubuntu on his home computer and then finds out that his/her favourite computer game won't work on edubuntu....i can imagine that she/he will go straight back to windows....
<rockprincess> kids simply love to play computer games...
<rockprincess> and especially over the network with their friends...
<sbalneav> Well, lots of games DO work on linux, under wine, or transgaming, and these days, quite frankly, most kids don't play games on computers.  They've got an XBOX or a PS2 or Nintendo for that.
<sbalneav> But, counterstrike, quake, etc all work under linux.
<rockprincess> true....
<rockprincess> i didn't know that counterstrike worked under linux...
<sbalneav> Yeah, google for transgaming.  There's a whole bunch of things that work under Linux.
<rockprincess> transgaming = wine?
<juliux> hey rockprincess
<juliux> rockprincess, transgaming == wine + directx
<rockprincess> hello juliux! i think i've just found a wicked wiki :D
<rockprincess> http://cedegawiki.sweetleafstudios.com/wiki/Category:Supported
<rockprincess> need to bookmark that ;)
<juliux> rockprincess, but transgaming is the old name the new one is cedega
<cbx33> afternoon all!!
<rockprincess> hello cbx33!
<nixternal> sbalneav: i have changed once again the layout of the handbook if you haven't noticed yet
<nixternal> much simpler layout, which can be broke out easier come time for topic based help
<sbalneav> nixternal: Ah, cool.
<nixternal> im hopefully going to get some content in there this weekend
<nixternal> i will leave the LTSP stuff up to you pros, as I know absolutely nothing about it really
<sbalneav> looks like the LTSP section moved all into one file?
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> so each of the previous p2-blah.xml is now just a <sect1 id="ltsp-blah" status="draft">
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> I saw the planet post, I'll try to get my butt in gear, and start adding more doco.
<nixternal> another reason why i did that is now when you ./validate.sh the handbook.xml if there is an error it will tell you the file.xml and the correct line number now
<nixternal> much easier to debug
<jo3> hi
<Burgwork> hey jo3
<jo3> ;)
#edubuntu 2006-12-09
<crashzor> anybody know how change they default ltsp session ( need to get it to a othere display for al users )
<blue-frog> system/administration/login window/remote
<crashzor> blue-frog, can you give that 1 in console way its a xubuntu system using the edubuntu ltsp ;)
<crashzor> so just say what i need to have and run :P
<blue-frog> no luck...
<blue-frog> must be in your window manager equivalent of gdm
<crashzor> there is not like just a deb i need that contations that configuration tool
<blue-frog> do you have gdm.conf in fux?
<blue-frog> guess not, wouldn't be called flux if so
<crashzor> jeb i have gdm.conf on the server don't know if its also on the tine clients
<crashzor> gdm.conf file is just in the /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
<blue-frog> look for remote in gdm.conf.. must be around
<blue-frog> but why fluxbox? not enough memory?
<crashzor> blue-frog, i run it because of the low hardware spec for the clients ;) and to keep everthing central :)
<blue-frog> why flux on the server?
<crashzor> how you mean flux on the server ?
<blue-frog> the clients can be 32MB memory
<blue-frog> the server needs the memory, not the client
<crashzor> i know how ltsp works
<crashzor> only i need to change the default session for al clients
<crashzor> no gdm.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386
<crashzor> anybody here ?
<LaserJock> I'm here
<LaserJock> have you checked out the LTSP documentation at all?
<crashzor> LaserJock, i'm fight whit to version of xfce4 i google'd the sins like 20:00 about it
<LaserJock> crashzor: I would email edubuntu-users
<LaserJock> Jonathon Carter uses XFCE a lot on Edubuntu but is probably asleep right now
<crashzor> LaserJock, hehehe i probley go on whit this until i fix it
<crashzor> so that wil be a late night
<LaserJock> crashzor: so you want to change the default session from Gnome to Fluxbox?
<crashzor> LaserJock, i want to change the default session from xfce4.3 to xfce4.4
<LaserJock> oh
<crashzor> because of the kiosk problem
<LaserJock> well what do you have installed?
<crashzor> yeah it works fine locally
<crashzor> until i boot up my test client
<crashzor> then i gets in to a fuck up old session ( fuck up because same of the file's where over writen )
<LaserJock> I'm just not much help unfortunately :/
<LaserJock> I'm assuming it's something in the client chroot
<crashzor> personal i think its samewhere in gdm and the ssh stuff how the gdm handels it so basicly i need to change the default session gdm points you in to the new thing
<crashzor> LaserJock, i got it a not nice but working way ( just overwrite'd the entry in /usr/bin whit /usr/local/bin and that fixes it thnx for the help anyway
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<sloncho> hi. after upgrade to 6.10 I can no longer print to remote CUPS queue. It was working with 6.06. Now, I see the printer in the printers admin, I can open the properties, but if I print a test page, it shows that there is one job for the printer, but the job is not visible neither on the server, nor on the client. and nothing is printed. the server is SuSE 10.0, and I can print to it from...
<sloncho> ...other SuSE 9.3 box, as well as I was able to print befoe from edubuntu 6.06
<sloncho> any ideas what to check?
<sloncho> how do I fix this?
<Burgundavia> http://susefaq.sourceforge.net/faq/cups.html <-- generic cups debug information
<sloncho> Burgundavia: in my opinion the suse part is working, i.e. i did not change there anything, and it worked before i updraded the edubuntu box. also - it works from another suse box. i even tried to disable the authomatic discovery in edubuntu, and configure manually - no joy. and ... the strange thing is that when edubuntu detects the queue (its broadcasted), in the connection box it displays...
<sloncho> ...file:///dev0
<Burgundavia> right, I have gave you that link because it has some cups debug info that is generic to all distros
<blueonyx> hi
<juliux> hi blueonyx
<rockprincess> hi
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi :)
<rockprincess> i have a question....i thought the nautilus browser was the opposite to the konqueror.....but actually is just a file manager :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> 'just'? nautilus is designed to be a file manager
<Kamping_Kaiser> it *used* to be all singing (like konqueror), but hasnt been for years
<rockprincess> yeah, but konqueror is also a webbrowser...
<Kamping_Kaiser> to me, tahts not a feature
<rockprincess> is there an alternative to firefox on gnome?
<Kamping_Kaiser> not a feature in konqueror, not a feature in Explorer
<Kamping_Kaiser> epiphany
<rockprincess> why is it not a feature to you?
<Kamping_Kaiser> security. and 'all singing all dancing' is usually problematic
<Kamping_Kaiser> i prefer apps that do a job, and not 15 jobs
<rockprincess> ah i se
<rockprincess> see
<Kamping_Kaiser> its a personal thing :)
<rockprincess> would you recommend epiphany?
<Kamping_Kaiser> unfortunately no, for most things. its to basic
<Kamping_Kaiser> its had the guts cut out of its GUI, and its using the firefox html engine, so its not really anything speicaly anymore
<Kamping_Kaiser> s/special/unique
<rockprincess> true
<blueonyx> is there any browser a little lighter than firefox?
<rockprincess> i've heard swiftfox?!
<Kamping_Kaiser> lynx/links? (sorry, had to say it)
<rockprincess> haha
<Kamping_Kaiser> swiftfox is supposed to be a fast firefiox, epiphany is lighter
<Kamping_Kaiser> nto sure about how light though
<blueonyx> Kamping_Kaiser, it's a pitty I have to do this for little children
<Kamping_Kaiser> blueonyx, try epiphany
<blueonyx> whats its package?
<Kamping_Kaiser> not as light as it used to be though... if you find a better light browser, let me know :)
<rockprincess> yeah me too, please!
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
* Kamping_Kaiser hugs rockprincess and blueonyx 
<rockprincess> hehe howcome? ;)
<blueonyx> next point on my todo list is ldap : (
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, i'v knocked back a 6pack, i'm feeling a bit that way :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> blueonyx, sorry, i cant help with taht :(
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: a 6pack of beer?
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, yep
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: feeling a bit tipsy? ;)
<blueonyx> epiphany looks good
* rockprincess thinks Biffy Clyro is the best band in the world.....
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, getting that way :) im trying to stay on the 'able to op' side of tipsy, not the 'just to drunk to op' side :)
<rockprincess> hahah
<Kamping_Kaiser> :P
<blueonyx> ... but real slow : (
<Kamping_Kaiser> blueonyx, :(
<rockprincess> hmm it doesn't even look sexy :(
<juliux> blueonyx, epiphany use the firefox html engine;)
<blueonyx> i have not enough memory : (
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, no, it doestn really have any selling points </harsh>
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser pooo :(
<blueonyx> thank you so far
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, this is rather nasty of me, but: i find epiphany symbolises gnome taken to extreems, cut down to uselessness
<juliux> Kamping_Kaiser, what are you missing in epiphany?
<Kamping_Kaiser> juliux, i'd have to reinstall it and try it again.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i just remember having a bad/less tehn stellar experiances with it
<rockprincess> kamping_kaiser: to be as bluntly truthful as possible, i'd much rather prefer kde than gnome.....
<Kamping_Kaiser> i used to prefer gnome, now its muchn of a muchness. next time i'mi at work i'll grab the E17 CVS checkout i ran and try and build E17 from source
<rockprincess> i've got to go....be back later on....
<Kamping_Kaiser> later mate :)
<juliux> hi all
<juliux> is there a second mirror for the herd1 image?
<highvoltage> hey juliux
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<juliux> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> did you find an answer to your mirror question?
#edubuntu 2006-12-10
<Kamping_Kaiser> can the chroot used for booting a thin client host be made writable by the OS?
<Kamping_Kaiser> or is it ro, no questions asked?
<juliux> hi all
<juliux> has somebody tested herd1 on vmware server?
<Phoenix7477> i have
<juliux> i get an error in vmware with the disk driver
<juliux> do you choos ide oder scsi in vmware?
<Phoenix7477> hard disc is set to SCSI, cdrom to IDE
<juliux> hm
<juliux> i choose scsi for the harddisk the debianinstaller says that there is no hard disk:(
<juliux> are you using the live or install iso?
<crimsun> the 20061205 daily (d-i/alt install) image had severe problems for Xubuntu, so we skipped Herd 1 altogether
<crimsun> the first is the requirement of hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false
<crimsun> the second is the partitioner
<juliux> ah now it is working, switched the harddisk to an virtual ide
<juliux> hi zascha
<zascha> he
<juliux> yeah herd1 installtion is fine under vmware
<highvoltage> juliux: kewl
<juliux> highvoltage, the main applications are running fine
<highvoltage> juliux: can you check if you have the same problem as Reinier Shmid who posted to edubuntu-devel?
<juliux> highvoltage, sure
<highvoltage> seems like gdm setup didn't work for him
<highvoltage> my internet connection should be fine again tonight, then I can rsync again too
<juliux> highvoltage, gdmsetup is not working
<juliux> highvoltage, if you starte it from the menu, gksu ask you for your password but then no window open
<highvoltage> juliux: ah, thanks for confirming that
<juliux> highvoltage, there is another bug in the startsite from firefox
<juliux> highvoltage, the title in the programm bar is still "Welcome to Edubuntu 6.06 LTS!"
<highvoltage> juliux: can you please file bugs for those?
<highvoltage> eeek
<juliux> highvoltage, sure
<highvoltage> juliux: I've sent your feedback to the list, can you also post the bug numbers to the list?
<juliux> yes
<juliux> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/5802/ that is the output if i open gdmsetup
<juliux> highvoltage, but against gdmsetup or gdm?
<juliux> highvoltage, https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/75230
<juliux> highvoltage, the second one;) https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-artwork/+bug/75233
<highvoltage> juliux: ah, thanks
<highvoltage> juliux: that gdmsetup bug looks very strange. I've never seen something like that before
<juliux> highvoltage, i also not
<juliux> highvoltage, could be something in gksu
<juliux> highvoltage, but i am not a developer
<bddebian> Heya
<juliux> highvoltage, can you check what happend with my e-mail to -devel?
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> juliux: I can't see any moderator requests or anything :/
<juliux> highvoltage, hm
<pitux> hello... I have a question... is possible install software from linex repositories?
<pitux> is the system less secure?
#edubuntu 2007-12-03
<gNoLa> nothing
<gNoLa> I just type
<jgbillings> I've got an edubutu server nearly booting a thin client
<jgbillings> but not sure how/where to troubleshoot
<jgbillings> it gets an ip, and goes through the boot process
<jgbillings> but after it gets to ltsp login: and I guess tries to start x, it hangs up
<jgbillings> I see something on the thin client console about failed to detect any sound hardware
<jgbillings> module-detect... failed to load...
<stgraber> ogra: hi, that's the just a small reminder about the italc upload, no comment on revu
<ogra> oki, i'll push it up then :)
<ogra> dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<ogra> dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but there is no XSBC-Original-Maintainer field
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> stgraber, can you fix that for the next upload please ? i'll push it up anyway now
<stgraber> hmm, right I didn't touch the control file, I'll set the maintainer to the MOTU mailing list with next upload
<ogra> apart from that it seemsed fine to me ...
<ogra> *seemed
<bddebian> Heya
<Dr_willis> Hello a..
<Dr_willis> all.
<EhPrettyEasy> hey guys
<EhPrettyEasy> wanna know something
<EhPrettyEasy> YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YO
<EhPrettyEasy> YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS
<EhPrettyEasy> YOU ALL SUCK ANUS
<EhPrettyEasy> YOU ALL SUCK ANUS
<EhPrettyEasy> YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS YOU ALL SUCK ANUS v
<scrapbunny> hello. is there a list o which programs run best in the thin client environment with edubuntu? I am having a lot o issues with programs freezing on edubuntu 7.10
<johnny> which programs?
<johnny> if it's a program that doesn't have any sort of local device requirements, or specific sound setup, then it should prolly run fine
<johnny> except firefox maybe :)
<scrapbunny> gcompris, tux paint, and even chess have been the worst
<johnny> sounds like they should be fine...
<johnny> guess you'll have to do some debugging
<scrapbunny> i am loading childsplay in hopes that will run better then gcompris but wanted to check is there was a wiki or something with the best thin client games
<scrapbunny> where should i start with the debugging? i am still pretty new to linux land :)
<johnny> hmm.. then you prolly jumped a bit high :)
<johnny> have you played around with standalone desktops?
<johnny> if not, i suggest it :)
<scrapbunny> i have been using ubuntu stand alone for over a year and edubuntu 7.10 in my lab since october
<johnny> aha.. good
<scrapbunny> with debugging i ment are the known bugs i should start with? i think i have a pretty good set up but i have done a lot o tweaks :)
<johnny> you could start with running them from the commandline and seeing if anything obvious pops up
<scrapbunny> should i do that logged in as admin or as a student?
<johnny> wherever the crashes are
<scrapbunny> cool thanks, i will go see what i find
<stgraber> ogra: Are you sure there isn't any kind of filter or something blocking my mails on edubuntu-devel, I even unsubscribed and subscribed again and my mails still don't show up ...
<stgraber> while the ones I send to other lists.ubuntu.com ML appear in the next seconds
<stgraber> ogra: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/admin/edubuntu-devel/privacy/sender should be the page
#edubuntu 2007-12-04
<pygi> yo
<pygi> hello jsgotangco:)
<jsgotangco> pygi!
<jsgotangco> how's it going?
<pygi> I didn't saw you in ages :)
<pygi> pretty well, thank you ... and you?
<jsgotangco> ive been busy and had a small family emergency hence i was away for a while
<pygi> heh, I was also away  ... for more then a while
<pygi> but now all well?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> my daughter was hospitalized for half a month
<kgoetz> bad luck.
<stgraber> RichEd: hi, you have admin rights on the edubuntu-devel ML right ?
<RichEd> stgraber: indeed ... how can i help ?
<stgraber> RichEd: can you check the my mail address isn't blocked ?
<stgraber> I tried unsubscribing/re-subscribing and still can't send mail ...
<RichEd> stgraber: you filthy spammer you ;)
<stgraber> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/admin/edubuntu-devel/privacy/sender
 * RichEd checks
<RichEd> stgraber: you're not in the rejection list
 * RichEd checks the member list
<RichEd> stgraber: see /msg
<MasterOne> Where would I file a bug report for a weird flash9-thinclient problem?
<RichEd> MasterOne: launchpad ... are you a member ?
<MasterOne> yes, and I think I already found it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs
<MasterOne> right?
<MasterOne> that's strange, I am already logged in at launchpad, but there is no "report new bug" action at https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/
<MasterOne> Do I need separate permissions to add a bug there?
<RichEd> MasterOne: you shouldn't ... let me check
<RichEd> MasterOne: go to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/ and click on report a bug ...
<MasterOne> but that bug is edubuntu / thinclient specific
<RichEd> MasterOne: thin client is ubuntu as well ... just happened to grow out of edubuntu ...
<MasterOne> ah yes, you are right of course, I'll file the bugreport there
<RichEd> specify that the problem happens on your edubuntu set-up, but report it under ubuntu (and variants)
<stgraber> MasterOne: what's exactly the bug ? if it's ltsp related (understand can be fixed in the ltsp package), it's better to file it against the "ltsp" source package
<stgraber> MasterOne: otherwise file against the package itself or against ubuntu (and someone will triage it)
<RichEd> stgraber: if it is filed under ubuntu, mentioning LTSP ... it will get to ogra ... and he will decide if it belongs to distro, or upstream
<MasterOne> it is a very specific bug with flash9-nonfree, that only can be seen on a thin client, and only on a specific website (likely with a specific version of a flash-movieplayer), it's pretty weird, because that flashplayer on that site makes firefox to crash instantly, if you click the "play" button when on a thin client, which does not happen, if you do the same directly logged in on the edubuntu LTSP5 server
<MasterOne> somehow has to do with the pulseaudio setup, I assume
<stgraber> MasterOne: does it also happen without the flashsupport package ?
<MasterOne> this bug is totally independent of libflashsupport, I tested it several times with a plain new edubuntu gutsy installation, with just updated to the latest packages and flash-nonfree installed
<MasterOne> I already discussed that matter with ogra yesterday in #ltsp
<MasterOne> he will do some testing of his own today, but he can confirm that this one is pretty weird
<stgraber> ok, so that's bad :) it looks like a bug somewhere in the flash plugin itself ...
<stgraber> I don't really know if it should be filed against ltsp (where the fix would happen) or against flashplugin-nonfree, knowing that filing a bug against the second one is useless, the plugin being closed source ...
<MasterOne> stgraber: kind of, but as mentioned, when doing the same directly logged in on the ltsp server machine, it work as expected, but once tested on the thin client, it is 100% reproduceable that firefox crashes instantly
<MasterOne> nothing specific shows up in .xsession-errors, except the following (but this is already there, before I start firefox after a new login): Error: could not open /proc/asound/cards
<MasterOne> anybody here sitting in front of a thin client, so to see for yourself?
<MasterOne> once I press the play button in the player on the right side at tv.com, firefox just crashes with the following feedback in a terminal:
<MasterOne> $ firefox
<MasterOne> firefox-bin: pcm_params.c:2351: sndrv_pcm_hw_params: Assertion `err >= 0' failed.
<MasterOne> Aborted (core dumped)
<stgraber> ok, so it has to be sound related (which is the big difference between the server and the thin client)
<MasterOne> oh, and another thing concerning this issue: that problem does not exist on an Edubuntu Gutsy 64bit setup, which means it just works as expected with Firefox 64bit + nspluginwrapper + flash-nonfree 32bit (of course without sound)
<stgraber> Did you try to start some kind of sound daemon on the server (which then will lock the dsp), that way the plugin won't be able to access the sound card and will sort of reproduce what you have on a thin client ?
<MasterOne> no
<MasterOne> did nothing else after a fresh installation
<MasterOne> so which package should I specify for this bug?
<stgraber> file it against ltsp as it happens on a thin client and we aren't sure what package the problem is related to :) (firefox, flashplugin-nonfree, ...)
<MasterOne> ok
<stgraber> I'll try to find a way to reproduce it on a desktop computer this afternoon (I have some ideas)
<MasterOne> it does not happen on a desktop setup
<MasterOne> it also does not happen on youtube.com
<MasterOne> just a moment, I'll soon be finished with the bugreport with all the details I have
<RichEd> stgraber: nothing held in the edubuntu-devel mail queue from you ...
<stgraber> RichEd: looks like I'll need to ping a sysadmin :)
<MasterOne> done, please have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/173845
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173845 in ltsp "LTSP5 ThinClient Setup: Weird problem with flash-nonfree letting Firefox crash (only on thin client, works fine on server itself)" [Undecided,New]
<Kamping_Kaiser> letting/making?
<Kamping_Kaiser> s/letting/making?
<MasterOne> :)
<MasterOne> thanks dict.leo.org, didn't realize you can say "letting go", but "letting" on its own has a different meaning
<MasterOne> fixes ;)
<MasterOne> s/fixes/fixed ;)
<Nurionn> hi
<Kamping_Kaiser> evening
<Nurionn> i've some trouble by the edubuntu-server installation on vmware workstation
<Nurionn> it freezes while 'compressing thin client image...' at 89%
<Nurionn> what can I do?
<stgraber> RichEd: the ML is just dropping the mail without any real reason (according to elmo), looks like I'll have to wait a bit before I have edubuntu-devel working again for me :)
<RichEd> stgraber: strange
<stgraber> RichEd: yes, especially as others ML on lists.ubuntu.com seem to work
<Nurionn> anyone an idea, why the edubuntu-server installation freezes while 'compressing thin client image...' at 89% ? (I try to install on vmware workstation 6)
<Kamping_Kaiser> is the installer running somewhere handy?
<Nurionn> how do you mean that? (sorry, I'm from switzerland and not so good in english)
<Kamping_Kaiser> you said " installation on vmware workstation" - does this mean the install is still open for you to look at?
<Nurionn> at the moment not, I restarted the installation
<Kamping_Kaiser> restart the install, and when you get to the error again, tell me
<Nurionn> I tried twice, and had twice the error
<Nurionn> now i try for the third time
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes. we need you at the erroring step to move forward.
<Nurionn> ok, I tell you when I'm there
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok :)
<Nurionn> 30gb of disk space should be enough, or not?
<Kamping_Kaiser> heaps
<Nurionn> so, I'm at 89% ('Compressing Thin Client Image...')
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nurionn, press alt+f4 (i'm assuming the installer is still the same as the one i dealt with 2 releases ago...)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, does edubuntu still use debian-installer?
<Kamping_Kaiser> why dont i think of these questions early ? :|
<Nurionn> last two lines:
<Nurionn> can't create /var/state/dhcp/dhclient.leases: No such file or directory
<Nurionn> dhclient: bount to 10.0.3.246 -- renewal in 1534 seconds.
<Nurionn> (then a blinking cursor)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. i cant remember my D-I consoles properly, but try F3 (alt+f3). iirc F2 is a dash shell, so its not interesting.
<Nurionn> an then?
<Kamping_Kaiser> is there anything on F3?
<Nurionn> no, I had to activate console by pressing enter
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. then its not what i thought it was
 * Kamping_Kaiser has to find time to install new edubuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> try F2
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm sure thers another console for debugging information
<Nurionn> f1: installation (blue/red progressbar from installation -> freezed at 89%)
<Nurionn> f2: Please press Enter to activate this console
<Nurionn> f3: same as f2, but already activated
<Nurionn> f4: logmessages (from wich I listed the last two lines above)
<Nurionn> f5-f12: only blinking cursor
<Kamping_Kaiser> darn. i thought [2,3] had debug info too.
 * Kamping_Kaiser thinks a minute
<Nurionn> do you need some earlier lines from f4?
<Kamping_Kaiser> perhaps. give us the last 5 or 6 if you can
<pygi> hello
<Nurionn> in-target: update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-14-386
<Nurionn> in-target:
<Nurionn> in-target: Richte linux-image-386 ein (2.6.22.14.21) ...
<Nurionn> in-target: Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386
<Nurionn> in-target: Warning: --skipimage set, not building squashfs image, runt ltsp-update-image later
<Nurionn> in-target: Info: Installation erfolgreich abgeschlossen.
<Kamping_Kaiser> pygi, hey mate
<Nurionn> then the dhcp-lines
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nurionn, whats the last line? 'install error, aborted'?
<pygi> Kamping_Kaiser: !
<Kamping_Kaiser> pygi, :S *hides*
<Nurionn> no
<Nurionn> I continue after the in-target lines:
 * Kamping_Kaiser needs some practice on his german
<pygi> Kamping_Kaiser: hehe :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nurionn, what does " Info: Installation erfolgreich abgeschlossen." translate to?
<Kamping_Kaiser> pygi, :)
<Nurionn> installation succesfully finished...
<pygi> Kamping_Kaiser: how are you doing?
<Kamping_Kaiser> wow. my german does need work *rofl*
<Kamping_Kaiser> perhaps i should be chaning nicknames
<bettong> to something that doesnt imply german skills
<Nurionn> last lines were:
<bettong> pygi, tipsy, and doing desktop support :) how about yourself?
<Nurionn> dhclient: can't create /var/state/dhcp/dhclient.leases: No such file or directory
<Nurionn> dhclient: bount to 10.0.3.246 -- renewal in 1534 seconds.
<pygi> bettong: busy hacking :D
<bettong> pygi, *envy*
<pygi> bettong: wanna hack? You can become contributor :p
<bettong> pygi, i wish i had time to learn :S i'm already overcommited... just ask anyone i've said 'sure, i'll do that ' to :)
<Nurionn> then a last line about console on f3 was started
<pygi> bettong: shhh, sure you do :)
<bettong> pygi, hehe
<bettong> Nurionn, i'm not sure whats cauising your issues, none of those are obvious errors.
<bettong> *thinks a bit more*
<Nurionn> now it repeated the dhclient lines
<bettong> it should do that every ~30 minutes  (depending on your server)
<pygi> PriceChild: :P
<Nurionn> bettong: you know perhaps what should come after this? is there a lot to do until the end of the installation or could I restart the machine without cd...?
<pygi> Nurionn: did you ran ltsp-update-image as installation told you?
<Nurionn> where should I do that? I'm still in the installation
<bettong> pygi, trick is the install isnt over
 * pygi doesnt know all the facts, so is just stomping in the dark
<bettong> Nurionn, i suggest a `ps aux |grep ltsp` in etiher F2 or F3, then kill any update-initramfs or ltsp-* processes you find
<Nurionn> there are 4 entries:
<Nurionn> 12356 root  212 S  /bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/ltsp-client-builder.postin
<Nurionn> 12357 root 1548 R  tail -1 /var/log/ltsp-image-build.log
<Nurionn> 26832 root  676 S  udpkg --configure --force-configure ltsp-client-build
<Nurionn> 26833 root  604 S  /bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/ltsp-client-builder.postin
<bettong> try killing udpkg and /var/lib/dpkg/info/ltsp-client-builder.postin
<Nurionn> I killed udpkg, but the others ar strange: on every new 'ps aux |grep ltsp' they have other process numbers...
<Nurionn> ah, now they're gone ;)
<Nurionn> and now I have an errors on f4, at last
<Nurionn> main-menu[2975]: WARNING **: Configuration 'ltsp-client-builder' failed with error code 143
<Nurionn> main-menu[2975]: WARNING **: Menu item 'ltsp-client-builder' failed.
<bettong> right.
<bettong> now switch back to F1 and see if our installer survived ;)
<Nurionn> he's still there, bat a bit red... :P
<bettong> hehe, i was afraid of that :|
<Nurionn> ... failed: configuring LTSP-chroot-environment  (translatet from german)
<bettong> is there a 'return to menu' or 'back' option?
<Nurionn> only 'next'
<bettong> guess theres only one option then :)
 * Nurionn tries to continue the installation.
<Nurionn> shall I repeat this step?
<Nurionn> but I think it don't make much sense
<bettong> do you have an option apart from retrying the step?
<Nurionn> next step is installing bootloader...
<bettong> do the next step
<ogra> Nurionn, ltsp-update-image (which is run by the client builder script after "ltsp-build-client --skipimage") takes enormous amounts of CPU power, it can take *very* long to finish, did you wait long enough ?
<ogra> especially if you dont have a fast CPU in your VM
<Nurionn> at the first try I started it yesterday evening
<Nurionn> but why it writes 'installation sucessfully finished' after:
<Nurionn> in-target: Warning: --skipimage set, not building squashfs image, run ltsp-update-image later
<ogra> yes
<ogra> it finished the chroot
<ogra> but we use images in gutsy
<ogra> (dont use hardy !)
<ogra> so the ltsp-update-image script is called to build a squashfs image from the chroot
<bettong> dont use hardy?
<ogra> no
<ogra> not the installer at least
<ogra> its broken
<bettong> ah
<ogra> ltsp-build-client in an installed system is fine
<ogra> but we're about to drop the installer integration from edubuntu for ltsp since the edubuntu-server iso will go away
<Nurionn> btw: after the installation of grub its gone back to 'compressing thin client image' and is another time at 89%...
<ogra> and i havent implemented it in ubuntu-alternate yet, where its supposed to go
<ogra> Nurionn, have a look at /var/log/ltsp-image-build.log
<ogra> it should show an error or something if its really stuck
 * bettong hugs ogra for waking up
<ogra> :)
<bettong> :)
<ogra> bettong, new nickname ?
<Nurionn> Creating little endian 3.0 filesystem on /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img.temp, block s$ TI0CGWINZ ioctl failed, fefaulting to 80 columns
<Nurionn> you mean that?
<ogra> thats fine
<Nurionn> or at the end:
<ogra> that only tells you that mksquashfs ran properly
<Nurionn> Info: port 2000 is already defined with /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img in inetd.conf
<bettong> ogra, i changed it because i was talking to Nurionn ... the less indication that i should speak german (of any sort) the better. esp. since i cant
<Nurionn> Info: taking no action.
<ogra> that means it finished properly
<Nurionn> the rest seems also good
<ogra> even though i wonder why your inted.conf already has an entry for port 2000 ....
<ogra> since thats only set up by this scipt it shouldnt exist yet
<ogra> did you run it twice ?
<Nurionn> hmm, could be
 * ogra is not sure he actually tested that case ... there might be a bug
<Nurionn> with bettongs help we killed some processes containing ltsp... and then the action cancelled
<Nurionn> and after continueing the installation by installing grub it restartet this task, I believe...
<Nurionn> at the moment on f4:
<Nurionn> in-target: NOTE: Root directory /opt/ltsp/i386 already exists, this will lead to problems, please remove it before trying again. Exiting.
<Nurionn> but there is NO /opt ...
<bettong> Nurionn, sure? `ls -lhd /opt/`
<Nurionn> No such file or directory...
<ogra> it means /target/opt
<ogra>  /target is the place you install to from the installer shell
<Nurionn> yes, /target/opt exists
<Nurionn> how can I delete it (its not empty)?
<mcfloppy__> hell
<mcfloppy__> o
<ogra> Nurionn, rm -rf /target/opt/*
<Nurionn> thx, I retry now that step
<Nurionn> installation complete!
<Nurionn> but I don't know why I was never asked for a root-password...
<ogra> because ubuntu systems dont use the root account, its locked by default
<ogra> the user you created is capable of doing all admin tasks through sudo
<Nurionn> ah ok
<Nurionn> now I think I'll make a clone of that image... :)
<ogra> btw, you can always just install the workstation version, install ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone and run sudo ltsp-build-client manually on the installed system
<ogra> the result is the same
<Nurionn> I should have known that before...
<Nurionn> but anyway, it's easier to restore from a clone.
<Nurionn> btw: how mutch clients can I connect with my 8gb ram?
<ogra> if you do: mount /cdrom && sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom ... that makes it use the files from the edubuntu CD ;)
<ogra> you need 256M to run the server and 128M for every connected user session
<Bauer> the edubuntu guide says 60MB for every connected session..
<ogra> Bauer, not the edubuntu handbook, where di you read that ?
<johnny> i read that too
<johnny> it's in one of the ltsp docs on the wiki
<ogra> the ubuntu docs ?
<Bauer> edubuntu handbook it is
<Bauer> Edubuntu, being a GNU/Linux based operating system, makes efficient use of memory. The usual formula that's used for adding memory to a thin client server is:
<Bauer> 256 + (60 * users) MB
<ogra> the edubuntu handbook thats shipped on every edubuntu system has the right values
<ogra> its the most recent ltsp5 documentation
<Bauer> ok..
<ogra> seems you found a very old version somewher online
<Bauer> but the online handbook should be updated if that is the case
<Bauer> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<Bauer> edubuntu.com is linking to this handbook
<ogra> thats an old version, i pinged LaserJock a month ago to get a fresh export to the wiki
<ogra> poke the doc team :)
<Bauer> hehe
<Nurionn> just another question: how can I change the screen resolution of the loginscreen?
<Bauer> the memory use of each client here is just about 80MB, with firefox and openoffice running
<ogra> Bauer, with a gnome desktop ?
<Bauer> yes
<ogra> oh wow, then it improved apparently
<ogra> the last measurement we did was in dapper ... there we had constantly 100M in use
<ogra> we said 128 then to have a security buffer
<Bauer> i have removed some of the desktop programs though,, the tracker applet for example
<ogra> yeah, tracker is a bad thing on ltsp ... especially for people using nfs mounted homedirs
<ogra> with 20 users it will just saturate your network for the first 10-20 min
<ogra> if its done with its initial DB building it should work fine though
<Bauer> i also removed sound control++
<ogra> (its problem is just that most people dont wait these 20 mins and disable it :) )
<ogra> i doubt many peope use tracker at all
<Bauer> yeah, I'd think so
<ogra> why did you remove the sound control ? no devices in the clients ?
<Nurionn> it is possible to change the screen resolution of the loginscreen to 1024x768?
<ogra> Nurionn, you can create a /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf file ....
<ogra> add:
<ogra> [default]
<Bauer> ogra: i have removed both sound and video to save memory ;)
<ogra> X_MODE_0=1924x768
<ogra> err
<ogra> X_MODE_0=1024x768
<ogra> indeed :)
<johnny> at least hardy will autodetect better
<johnny> all mine come up with 1024x768 atm
<johnny> without any specified mode
<ogra> johnny, what kind of diplays ?
<johnny> random collection of CRT
<ogra> X only uses what the DDC of the monitor reports its capable of
<johnny> one comes up with 1280x1024  which is nice
<johnny> automatically
<ogra> and thats unlikely to change in hardy
<Nurionn> I mean local on the server
<johnny> oh local the server, go to the screen resolution section
<ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<johnny> if my suggestion doesn't work, then you do what ogra says :)
<ogra> hit enter on all questions until you come to the resolution selection
<ogra> johnny, the screen sresolution selection only works inside the user session ... it uses xrandr ...
<ogra> gdm wont be affected by that
<johnny> oh.. true
<johnny> i guess i could care less what res the login screen is :)
<ogra> heh
<johnny> never noticed it
<ogra> yeah
<johnny> if it is ever different
<ogra> its odd if it switches around on login though
<Bauer> i want to install schooltool, but have a dependency problem
<Bauer> it needs python-2.4-schooltool, but it wont install
<Nurionn> thanks a lot
<Nurionn> I will do some tests now
<ogra> Bauer, schooltool is broken since feisty
<Bauer> oh,, too bad, it looks like a good tool,, is it done something to fix it?
<ogra> yes, upstream is working hard on it
<Belutz> RichEd: ping
<RichEd> hi Belutz
<Belutz> hi RichEd
<Belutz> i'm using cmpc right now
<Belutz> but using fluxbuntu inside
<RichEd> :) enjoying it ?
<ogra> heh, fluxbox :)
<Belutz> not yet enjoying it until i could install edubuntu in it
<Belutz> :D
<Belutz> any follow up about the image request?
<RichEd> Belutz: not yet ... I can check on monday again at the meeting ... but will also pop off an email
<Belutz> RichEd: thanks :)
<Belutz> i hope intel indonesia won't give up on us
<Nurionn> As I have seen, it works fine
<Nurionn> but how can I install a bigmem kernel?
<Nurionn> sudo apt-get install linux-kernel-<Version>-bigmem (where <Version> is the result from 'uname -r') doesn't work
<ogra> sudo apt-get install linux-image-server
<ogra> that supports up to 64G iirc
<Nurionn> that's enough... vmware workstation supports only up to 8G/machine
<bddebian> Heya
<Nurionn> how can I install x11vnc on the clients (I tried 'chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/', but without success)?
<sbalneav> Morning all!
<Nurionn|away> bye - I go home (I've worked enough for today)
<Nurionn|away> gn8
<Nurionn|away> (btw. in Switzerland its 5.00 pm :) )
<Goosemoose> Hi, trying to get apt-cacher installed on ubuntu. Seems to install fine but i can't browse to http://localhost:3142. Tried to restart the service and it says unable to bind socker (port 3142) Any idea why?
<sbalneav> Goosemoose: Have a look in /etc/default/apt-cacher
<Goosemoose> gone through it
<Goosemoose> set to port 3142
<sbalneav> I think you need to edit it to AUTOSTART=1
<Goosemoose> already done
<sbalneav> then invoke-rc.d apt-cacher start
<Goosemoose> did that too
<sbalneav> ps -ef | grep apt
<Goosemoose> thats when it tells me unable to bind socker 3142
<Goosemoose> ok let me run that
<Goosemoose> www-data 10404 10297  0 12:53 pts/0    00:00:00 /usr/bin/perl /usr/sbin/apt-cacher
<Goosemoose> leia     10491 10474  0 13:09 pts/2    00:00:00 grep apt
<Goosemoose> any ideas?
<sbalneav> Well, it's already running
<Goosemoose> hmm
<sbalneav> so, just set up your sources.list to use it.
<Goosemoose> strange error then when i try to restart it
<sbalneav> Should be fine
<Goosemoose> i can't browse to it
<sbalneav> You won't be able to.
<Goosemoose> http://10.0.2.131:3142
<Goosemoose> really?
<sbalneav> it's not a web server.
<Goosemoose> instructions i got online said i should be able to
<sbalneav> I've never tried, but I can't see why it would.
<Goosemoose> I know it uses apache
<Goosemoose> hmm
<sbalneav> no it doesn't
<sbalneav> it's a standalone daemon.  Doesn't use apache at all.
<Goosemoose> ok, this doc was setup for Ubuntu 6.10 maybe it's changed
<Goosemoose> hmm, i think it does use apache some how. the other doc which is what im following to setup a pressed file
<Goosemoose> to install over the network
<sbalneav> Just set it up as per instructions.  Change lines in sources.list to: deb http://10.0.2.131:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ gutsy main etc.
<Goosemoose> says that i need to have d-i mirror/http/hostname/string host:port
<Goosemoose> ok
<sbalneav> Depends: perl, bzip2, libwww-perl
<sbalneav> Doesn't depend on apache at all.
<Goosemoose> ok
<Goosemoose> trying network boot again
<sbalneav> I use it all the time, it's quite handy.
<sbalneav> Especially if you pre-seed it with all the .debs off the alternative cd.
<Goosemoose> I'll be deploying 250 machines so it better mbe!
<Goosemoose> ok damn, dont think it liked the mirror country i set it to United States in the pressed file
<Goosemoose> must need the code
<Goosemoose> I couldnt find en_US in ubuntu by the way, had to use en_GB
<sbalneav> en_US is a valid language code.
<Goosemoose> hmm ok
<Goosemoose> what about the country code for the mirror
<Goosemoose> still en_US?
<Goosemoose> or just US
<Goosemoose> doc says
<Goosemoose> d-i mirror/country string enter information manually
<Goosemoose> doesn't tell me what type of string, am I matching the install option maybe?
<Goosemoose> this is what im working from btw
<Goosemoose> http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/example-preseed.txt
<Goosemoose> look in the 11th block
<sbalneav> No idea.  I've never preseeded before.
<Goosemoose> ok
<sbalneav> I use thin clients, so I've only got 8 or 9 servers to deal with. :)
<sbalneav> I just do 'em all manually.
<Goosemoose> how many machines total?
<sbalneav> About 200 desktops
<Goosemoose> what type of desktops?
<sbalneav> Diskless thin clients.  Via EDEN EPIA 5000 mobo's.  Fanless, diskless, problem-free :)
<Goosemoose> what type of processor
<sbalneav> Via EDEN
<Goosemoose> what do ya got on the servers?
<Goosemoose> yeah just looked it up
<sbalneav> 550 mhz
<Goosemoose> what?
<Goosemoose> seriously?
<Goosemoose> on the server?
<sbalneav> Biggest server I have hosts 50 thin clients.  That one's a Dual Xenon with 5 gigs of ram.
<sbalneav> Full gnome desktop.
<Goosemoose> ok
<Goosemoose> what speed?
<sbalneav> What speed of what?
<Goosemoose> dual xeon
<LaserJock> ogra: around?
<sbalneav> model name      : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU            5140  @ 2.33GHz
<Goosemoose> I'm toying with setting up 20 thin clients along with this
<Goosemoose> ok cool. that would match mine then
<Goosemoose> 2 more gigs of ram and I could do that. do the 50 run smoothly?
<sbalneav> 15:30:44 up 53 days,  5:48,  8 users,  load average: 1.88, 1.27, 1.33
<sbalneav> No problems.
<Goosemoose> What programs are they running?
<Goosemoose> 8 users. What happens when you have all 50 on?
<sbalneav> That's not accurate.
<sbalneav> sputnik$ ps -ef | grep metacity  | wc 35     315    3122
<sbalneav> Got 35 on right now.
<Goosemoose> Cool
<Goosemoose> What types of programs they running
<sbalneav> OO.o, firefox, custom web apps, etc.
<sbalneav>  ps -ef | grep soffice | wc
<sbalneav>  23     208    2494
<Goosemoose> Cool
<Goosemoose> Grr. Stupid pressed file does not like my country code
<Goosemoose> anyone else here use pressed files?
<Goosemoose> d-i mirror/country string United States
<Goosemoose> i don't get it!
<t0ddan> Hello
<Goosemoose> sbalneav, lol got passed that step. typed in enter information manually and it worked. now its saying my mirror is not available
<Goosemoose> onto the next step!
<Goosemoose> how can i test if apt-cache is working right?
<t0ddan> Is there any difference between ubuntu and edubuntu whitout add-on cd?
<sbalneav> apt-get update should work
<t0ddan> execpt ltsp
<sbalneav> Heading home for the day
<sbalneav> be on tonight.
<LaserJock> t0ddan: well, a little bit
<LaserJock> t0ddan: LTSP is the big difference, but documentation, themeing are also different
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if there are any other app differences
<Goosemoose> damn, bad archive mirror still
<t0ddan> okay but if i install an clean ubuntu install  whit ltsp, there will not be any big difference between them?
<LaserJock> not really
<Goosemoose> be back in a few
<t0ddan> okay, thx
<LaserJock> LTSP setup is easier when using Edubuntu
<LaserJock> but if you can certainly do it on Ubuntu as well
#edubuntu 2007-12-05
<Bauer> i just copied the home directory of a template-user to /etc/skel
<Bauer> now when, I try to crate a new user, it hangs for 10 seconds, and the user is not created..
<Bauer> I have tryed sabayon, but it just crashes...
<bettong> how are you adding a new user?
<Bauer> System - Administration - users and groups
<bettong> ok. open up a terminal, i'll ask you to run some commands
<bettong> then i'll disapear for dinner, and hope your here in 40 minutes :)
<Bauer> ok
<bettong> try running `adduser newusername`, does it give any errors?
<bettong> then `ls -lhd /etc/skel` and `ls -lAh /etc/skel/`
<bettong> the two ls commands should go to a pastebin
<bettong> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Bauer> hmm.. it says that the _group_ student01 already exists...
<bettong> oh, and `ls -lAh /home/`
<bettong> pastebin to please :)
<bettong> have you created / tried to create that user before?
<bettong> sorry, afk. back in ~45 min, good luck. if your /etc/skel/* isnt owned by root, chown it to root
<Bauer> yes, maybe that is the problem ;) i have created that user before, and deleted it
<bettong> deluser and delgrp to remove stuf :)
<bettong> afk
<Bauer> thanks, tried now with a random username, which worked :)
<bettong> Bauer, so your problem is probably prexisting stuff for the user you've [half] created ;)
<bettong> s/;)/:)
<Bauer> yes, I've fixed it now :)
<Bauer> but am I the only one with sabayon-problems?
<Bauer> if I for example try to change anything under System - Preferences - Sessions, sabayon crashes..
<Nurionn> thx Bauer, had just the same error (user created -> deleted -> could not been created anew)
<Nurionn> but sabayon I don't know, I used 'System - Administration - users and groups'
<bettong> how did you delete the users? (both of you)
<bettong> Bauer, run sabayon from your terminal. it might print out some debug info when it crasehs
<bettong> *crashes
<Nurionn> don't know, I think it was a test... ;)
<Nurionn> can you tell me, why the users are not in an alphabetic order (in System - Administration - users and groups )
<Nurionn> =
<Nurionn> ?
<bettong> no i cant.
 * bettong doesnt use those tools :)
<Nurionn> which tool do you use insteed?
<bettong> adduser
<bettong>  / deluser / gpasswd
<Nurionn> hmm... (I should have known :))
<bettong> hehe :)
<Nurionn> can you set there the same password for multiple users?
<bettong> not per se.
<Nurionn> I've here 2 classrooms with thinclients and we would like to create a user per machine, because there are different classes who uses these rooms
<bettong> 'passwd username` <put in password> -> open /etc/shadow -> <copy passwd to relevent lines> (i might script it with sed, but thats the rough idea)
<Nurionn> so they can share the same user (in fact they only need the machines for surfing/writing texts...)
<bettong> what sharing user? the client or the child?
<Nurionn> e.g. client one is named 'lese01' -> now I want a user 'lese01' and every person that uses this client uses the user 'lese01'
<bettong> not sure how you would bind users to a particular terminal.
<Nurionn> hoping they use the correct user :D
<bettong> :)
<Nurionn> I'm not teacher, thats not my problem -> but they use these rooms rarely and we don't want to create ~1k users...
<bettong> 1k users==ldap job ;)
<bettong> are you going for a general kiosk feel, or each student has a set terminal to sit at?
<Nurionn> he can sit where he like to
<bettong> hm. you want kiosk mode. not dealt with it myself though, so i cant help much
<Bauer> is there any way to make schooltool work? if not, are there good alternatives?
<Nurionn> we tought to create useres 'lese01' to 'lese24' (and same for the other room)
<bettong> Bauer, whats that? *heh*
<Bauer> http://www.schooltool.org/ it is in the edubuntu repository,, ogra said it was broken yesterday
<bettong> ah, i havent heard about that
<Bauer> ok :)
<Bauer> another thing - is there a way to set a random 8-char password on several users, and get an output to a text file?
<bettong> theres password generating tools available in apt, not sure how they work though
<bettong> that or DIY ;)
<Bauer> have tried some of them, they just spit out passwords in the terminal,, would be nice to make it set the password for users automatic
<Nurionn> now I tried to add the users with 'useradd' but they don't have any privileges (couldn't log on a thinclient).
<Nurionn> ist there another command to do that?
<bettong> Bauer, set automatic in whta way?
<bettong> no no no!
<bettong> *adduser*
<bettong> *never* useradd
<Bauer> bettong: so that I can run a command which set a random password on x number of users automatic, and also get the result in a text file or in the terminal. now i just get an output in the terminal, and would have to set the password for each user manually
<bettong> looked at libpam-pwdfile - PAM module allowing authentication via an /etc/passwd-like file
<bettong> libpam-pwgen - a password generator
<bettong> :
<Nurionn> little problem:
<Nurionn> I deleted ALL content from /home/ -> what to do?
<bettong> hope you have backups :)
<Nurionn> I cloned the vmware-machine...
<Nurionn> apparently it was good to do so.
<bettong> hehe
<Nurionn> vmware is great, now I've anew a running system
<pips1> how come edubuntu doesn't feature on the fridge calendar anymore?
<pips1> what time will today's meeting take place?
<ogra> the early one (in 1h ??)
<ogra> err 30 min
<RichEd> yep ... early one
<RichEd> pips1: laserjock will addd the events ... i needs to send him an email ... will try to do that today
<pips1> oh, meeting in 30 mins. ok.
<riot_le> hi, i am having trouble gegtting
<riot_le> hi, i am having trouble getting the dhcp server up. when i try /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start this fails. i used the example config in /etc/ltsp/. in /var/log/syslog i get "no subnet declaration for eth0. i added "interface "eth0"; no change. also DHCPD_INTERFACE="etho"; does not help.
<riot_le> if anyone could help me that would be greatl.
<ogra> dont change /etc/default
<stgraber> ogra: funny, using "gnome-session-save --kill" closes the gnome session on a thin client but shows the session logout box on a desktop computer :)
<stgraber> I'll need to find a better way to logout for my next italc upload ...
<ogra> stgraber, pretty sure it checks gdm
<stgraber> gdm-signal also doesn't seem to work here (I'm testing with Feisty at the moment)
<ogra> did you try setting --display ?
<riot_le> i dont touch /etc/default
<ogra> riot_le, " i added "interface "eth0"; no change. also DHCPD_INTERFACE="etho""
<ogra> thats what you just wrote
<ogra> dont do that
<stgraber> ogra: ica is running as a session script, so DISPLAY is set correctly, on a real client : "gdm-signal" just doesn't do anything and gnome-session-save shows the logout window
<ogra> just make sure to have a proper static interface with an IP that matches the range you defined in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<stgraber> ogra: I like KDE on that point, I have 3 different dcop signal to send an that's all :)
<ogra> check for LTSP_CLIENT so you can have two different ways
<ogra> LTSP_CLIENT is always set in ltsp sessions
<riot_le> i did not insert both at the same time ;-)
<stgraber> yes, but gdm-signal and gnome-session-save --kill don't work on a real desktop PC (no thin client), that's my current problem :)
<stgraber> "gnome-session-save --kill" correctly kills gnome on a thin client (gdm-signal doesn't work, I'm waiting for local apps to have shutdown/reboot working)
<ogra> riot_le, just revert that change, make it DHCPD_INTERFACE="" as it used to be, then make sure the interface has the right ip and try again
<stgraber> argh, irssi crash
<ogra> hardy ?
<stgraber> feisty server
<ogra> oh
<riot_le> that doesnt help, it fails again
<ogra> put your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and the output of the ifconfig -a command on paste.ubuntu-nl.org and point me to the paste ...
<ogra> ************ Reminder, edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 10 min ************
<riot_le> im on another pc, can't paste now cause i dont have internet @ the server
<ogra> use a usb key :)
<ogra> ifconfig -a >ifconfig.txt (then copy it over)
<riot_le> i have temporari no usb key avivable
<ogra> riot_le, hmm, hard to help then :)
<riot_le> i will ask if someone other here has a key
<ogra> ************ Reminder, edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 5 min ************
<riot_le> which file does the dhcp server use? i think it's /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd3.conf. what use is /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf?
<ogra> /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf is used by default
<riot_le> /etc/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> (if it exists)
<ogra> (which is the case if you have ltsp installed)
<riot_le> ok, that is an important info. i tested ltsp on a debian etch box recently and this file appeared to be ignored.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> etch is a) very old ltsp implementation, debian needs some time to port our stuff every time b) not using the patched dhcpd
<ogra> their dhcpd requites a lot more configuration all over
<ogra> *requires
<ogra> hile ours only exects an interface with IP from the 192.168.0.X range to work out of the box (as explained on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall)
<ogra> *while
<riot_le> according to the log it does ignore the file in /etc/ltsp. the log sais "the subnet declaration for eth0 (192.168.50.118) ... which is the value i am using in the conf. but i just replaced /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and will try.#
<ogra> hmm, why did you replace it ?
<ogra> just change 192.168.0 to 192.168.50 everywhere in the default file
<riot_le> ok working
<ogra> good
 * riot_le notes: if ltsp is used, use that conf, not the old dhcp's. ;-)
<riot_le> thank you
<ogra> but please mention exactly that you replaced the file in case you need further support later so suporters know they dont deal with the easy default file
<ogra> (i might remembr that but others wont know and assume the default :) )
<ogra> ************ Reminder, edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting NOW ************
<riot_le> i trying to restart the dhcp-server now
<Nurionn> where can I find freemind (apparently the
<Nurionn> which repository must I add?
<Nurionn> ah I think I found them.
<ogra> Nurionn, sorry we're all in #ubuntu-meeting in the weekly edubuntu meeting
<ogra> i think its in multiverse since its still depending in the nonfree java
<stgraber> Nurionn: it's in multiverse
<stgraber> Nurionn: it's in multiverse since Gutsy
<ogra> should move to universe once icedtea java is done :)
<Nurionn> no problem, I found functional repositories in the ubuntu-forum (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=348920)
<Nurionn>  deb http://eric.lavar.de/comp/linux/debian/ experimental/
<Nurionn>  deb-src http://eric.lavar.de/comp/linux/debian/ experimental/
<Nurionn> now I could install with 'sudo apt-get install freemind'
<ogra> ouch, be careful thats a debian repo
<ogra> it might break your system if there is other stuff in it
<Nurionn> what would you counsel instead?
<stgraber> ogra: I'm reading the eeePC specs, it has L2 cache !!! :), hardware looks good, just have to wait for a bit for the price to get a bit lower
<Bauer> is it much work to have several servers working in a cluster?
<stgraber> not really, you'll just need a central server for authentication/home directory
<stgraber> then the others to use it for authentication and mounting /home
<Bauer> ok. i have one server ready, and some of the schools here can try it if they want. if they like it, we will probably set up more and let all the schools use it :)
<stgraber> load-balancing can be done with ldm (IIRC) or using things like DNS (and multiple A record)
<Bauer> is there a guide for managing edubuntu cluster-mode some place?
<stgraber> I don't know, but there are for LDAP auth server and shared /home directory, that's basically what you'll need
<stgraber> (and some scripts to syncronise the package lists between the servers)
<Bauer> ok. i guess you will be hearing from me later :p
<ogra> there is a wikipage for failover clustering from dtrask, i dont know the url though
<Nurionn> ogra: I comment these lines now out with a #, for I don't think I will need them for a while
<stgraber> I played a bit with LDAP auth recently and it's lot easier with Gutsy than it was before :)
<ogra> Nurionn, yeah, thats safer
 * Nurionn writes down, what he had done on his server. (just in case...)
<Nurionn> I have just the Problem, that my ThinClient can't access their usb-key, and I found out, that it was because of the rights in (System - Administration - users and groups)
<ogra> right
<Nurionn> can I grant these rights (safe root-privileges) in the console?
<ogra> you need to add them to the fuse group
<Nurionn> is there a command to do so with multiple users?
<ogra> Nurionn, uid=$(cat /etc/passwd|cut -d ':' -f3);for id in $uid;do if [ "$id" -gt "1000" ] ;then user=$(grep $id /etc/passwd|cut -d ':' -f1|grep -v nobody); sudo adduser $user fuse ;fi ;done
<ogra> copy and paste that line
<ogra> note that will add *all* users above uid 1000 to fuse
<ogra> (below 100 are the system users)
<ogra> *1000
<Nurionn> I started with my users at uid 1011, I will take this number in your skript...
<Nurionn> i've errors for the first 8 users:
<Nurionn> adduser: Nur ein oder zwei Namen erlaubt.
<Nurionn> (-> only one or two names allowed)
<ogra> well add them manually then :)
<ogra> its only 8 :)
<ogra> instead of *all* now
<ogra> (that script was quickly hacked down from the top of my head, no error catching here apart from adduser ;) )
<stgraber> Nurionn: you have accounts with space in their username ? (trying to understand the adduser error)
<Nurionn> no
<ogra> stgraber, its likely an error in my line
<Nurionn> they're named lese01, lese02, lese03, .... until 24 (and same for other rooms)
<bddebian> Heya
<Belutz> ogra, ping
<ogra> Belutz, hey
<Belutz> is there any special way to go into bios in cmpc?
<Belutz> hitting "del" and "F11" on boot do nothing :(
<johnny_> try f2..
<johnny_> hehe
<johnny_> no.. i don't know the cmpc
<Belutz> :)
<ogra> Belutz, i think F10
<ogra> i dont have my CMPC around atm
<ogra> F11 is the bootdevice selection ...
<Belutz> F11 didn't work too
<ogra> hmm, del just gets me to the BIOS here
<Belutz> is it the keyboard or ... :(
<Goosemoose> anyone using a network install and a preseed file with apt-cacher?
<Goosemoose> i keep getting told the specified mirror is not available or does not have a valid release file on it
<das-t_> good evening, i am new @ edubuntu. i am trying to find a documentation on how to setup a server-client. the client is booting ok over the network, but i cannot log in. do i need to register the machine somewhere? how?
<das-t_> i just cannot find the correct howto for that.
<johnny> did you setup a user?
<das-t_> yes, during install. and i set up a test user uid 1001. and i tried setting up a user in the chroot of /opt/ltsp/i386/
<johnny> you don't set it up in the chroot
<johnny> the chroot isn't supposed to have any users
<johnny> except root for debugging sometimes
<das-t_> ok, it was just a try.
<das-t_> i do have a test user in the normal system. do i need a special group for it or something?
<johnny> no
<johnny> i don't think so..
<das-t_> though the client sais something like "cannot register themachine" ...
<johnny> register? hmm
<johnny> that's not enough info
<das-t_> ok then. i don't have the system here.
<das-t_> mainly i am trying to find a place to read ;-)
<das-t_> i might come back then tomorrow when i am at the machines themselves.
<ogra> whats the error you get if you try to log in ?
<das-t_> someting that makes me suspect i need to register the client somewhere. something like "cannot register machine". that does not sound like there is  a wrong user at all.
<das-t_> not wrong password or the like
<ogra> this workstation is not authorized ?
<das-t_> yes, very possible.
<das-t_> how do i authorize it?
<ogra> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image
<ogra> i guess you changed your ip after install
<das-t_> ok, yes, that is correct
<ogra> the client needs to know abut that in its ssh key settings :)
<das-t_> ok, i remember i saw a passage about changing the ip
<ogra> so the first command copies new keys into place ...
<ogra> the second rebuilds an image from your chroot
<ogra> (the image is what the clients use by default)
<das-t_> but i was obviously too blind to realize i needed that
<das-t_> i am all new to ltsp, so thank you very much, i very much believe this is it.
<das-t_> thank you very much, i am quite sure you helped. i will try tomorrow.
<ogra> btw the edubuntu handbook is the best source for ltsp info ;) its installed by default in the help system in every edubuntu
<ogra> (in (k)ubuntu just install the edubuntu-docs package)
 * HedgeMage peeks in
<HedgeMage> hey, ogra, I was hoping to catch you today.
<lns> Ogra! =)
<ogra> hey HedgeMage lucky girl you are :) i was about to close the lid :)
<das-t_> ok, thank you, i was searching online. the ltsp documentation seems good, but i was too blind. ;-) if you are at an edubuntu, which version of ltsp is inside edubuntu? i am at ltsp.org too right now.
<ogra> 5.0.39
<HedgeMage> ogra:  I might be recommending an LTSP setup for a local school, and will need to help them decide what hardware to purchase.  Do you have a favorite brand of thin clients?
<ogra> its the very latest (ltsp was developed in ubuntu for the last two years, that recently changed)
<HedgeMage> I've never shopped for them before
<ogra> HedgeMage, http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/200104.html?id=zinCjRNS is pretty good , http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/200029.html?id=zinCjRNS as well but expensive
<das-t_> as a thank you ... i have no clue what kind of music you enjoy, i am just listening to this ... http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/14943/ ... and enjoy it quite a lot. it features a new instrument i saw life not long ago. absolutely fascinating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hang_(musical_instrument) - if you are interested great, if not take it as my way of saying thank you ;-)
<ogra> dont get that one, thats utter crap http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/200110.html?id=zinCjRNS
<das-t_> thank you and good night
<HedgeMage> ogra:  thanks!
<ogra> HedgeMage, http://www.koolu.com/content/view/94/241/ is also very good, but has broken Xserver drivers in gutsy
<ogra> its the best price for HW you can pay i think
<lns> oops, was about to mention koolu =)
<HedgeMage> ogra:  thanks :)
<ogra> 800Mhz and 512M is pretty good for $199 but it uses an amd chipset which has a broken X in gutsy .... and no solution forseeable yet
<lns> also check out http://www.thesymbiont.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=80&Itemid=109 - their SYM1110 seems promising, although I haven't tested it yet
<HedgeMage> thanks both of you :)
<lns> Just passing on the knowledge ;)
<airjump> bye and a good n8
<jimcooncat> have a regular ltsp setup, finally. I'm using some thin clients, but also want to make use of the environment from my regular fiesty desktop. I'm currenty running vnc4server on the ltsp server, but was wondering what others use for remote access?
<johnny> uhmm.. ssl..
<johnny> err ssh
<ScorpKing> hi guys. if i want to install a LTSP server, which option do i choose from the livecd?
#edubuntu 2007-12-06
<Goosemoose> hi guys
<Goosemoose> im trying to preseed edubuntu
<Goosemoose> i have this line but it doesn't seem to work, i get no gui
<Goosemoose> tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard,edubuntu-desktop
<Goosemoose> anyone?
<ojwb> Hi - I'm putting together a computer from spare parts for my neighbour's ~6 year old kid, and edubuntu seems a good choice for the OS.  Looking at the wiki, I can find suggested hardware requirements for thin clients and servers for LTSP, but not for a standalone machine - any idea what it will run on?
<ojwb> or is it just the same as ubuntu for that case?  does it use gnome for the desktop?
<RichEd> ojwb: same as ubuntu ... and yes GNOME
<RichEd> but it also has kde apps
<ojwb> sure, I was meaning "rather than being based on xubuntu" really
<RichEd> yep ... edbuntu is more or less ubuntu with an edubuntu-desktop package on top ... additional education applications, younger/simpler look & feel
<steph_> bonjour Ã  tous
<steph_> le channel est franÃ§ais ou anglais
<ogra> english, even though i think some here would understand french
<steph_> ok. First of all, I'm a newbie to edubuntu.
<steph_> hep you won another soldier :)
<steph_> i put a wallpaper in /usr/share/backgroud
<steph_> i would like  al; my users to see it
<steph_> here is what i don't understand:
<steph_> when i'm logon as a user, i see images in /usr/share/background
<steph_> but not the one i added ?
<steph_> if you can help me to understand how an admin can setup edubuntu for all users
<steph_> (I have 5 childrem...kind of a admin lol)
<steph_> childrens
<stgraber> I'm not sure how gnome works on that point, but there is certainly some kind of .xml file storing the list of available wallpapers
<steph_> in the /home/user ?
<steph_> so i had to find that file, and mv to all other users ?
<ogra> have a look at  /usr/share/gconf/defaults/20-edubuntu
<steph_> what if users have personnal settings?
<steph_> ok
<ogra> create your own file in that dir with a higher number
<ogra> and set the background like in the ubuntu file but with your own image
<ogra> the higher number will make the settings you put in that file overrule all others
<ogra> dont change the edubuntu file, that gets overwritten on updates
<steph_> another question (maybe stupid). Why /usr/share/gconf/defaults/20-edubuntu has a symbolic link. Would it be easier to have only one file. Is it common in  *nix systems ?
<Petaris> Hi all
<Petaris> I am trying to debug a thin client issue but it seems to be ignoring my SCREEN_02=shell in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<Petaris> any ideas
<ogra> paste your lts.conf to a pastebin
<Petaris> its just two lines
<Petaris> the version and the SCREEN_02=shell
<Petaris> sec
<Petaris_Aki> ogra: http://phpfi.com/281449
<ogra> looks fine
<Petaris> *three lines
<ogra> you can drop the version var btw
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> didn't know if it was required or not
<ogra> its just a placeholder for the default file ... getltscfg would moan if it fineds the file empty
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> so why am I not getting a shell on tty2?
<ogra> what happens exactly when you boot
<ogra> you get a normal X login ? or is it stuck at the first console ?
<Petaris> it grabs the DHCP, the image, gives me the Ubuntu boot screen then goes to a black screen
<Petaris> x doesn't start
<Petaris> thats what I am trying to diagnose
<ogra> and alt-f2 doesnt get you to a terminal ?
<Petaris> I need the shell to see what the graphics chipset is
<Petaris> nope
<Petaris> just a blank screen
<Petaris> tty1 has the login on it
<Petaris> but thats disabled right?
<ogra> thats gutsy ?
<Petaris> yeah
<Petaris> 7.10
<ogra> you can enable it with: sudo /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd && sudo ltsp-update-image
<ogra> that enables the root login
<Petaris> ok
<stgraber> ogra: s/sudo/sudo chroot/ ?
<ogra> oh, right
<Petaris> still I wonder why I am not getting the shell
<ogra> thanks for pointing
 * ogra is in a meeting alongside
<Petaris> ok, thanks for the instructions ogra
<Petaris> where in proc should I look to find the video chipset?
<johnny> i had a problem where if the desktop failed to come up properly
<johnny> like the autolgin bug, i couldn't move over to the the screen 2
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> maybe similar
<Petaris> but I can't tell for sure
<bddebian> Heya
<Goosemoose> anyone here preseed edubuntu?
<Goosemoose> wow it's quiet!
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> Does anyone know if there is LTSP client support for the AMD Geode LX800 chipset
<Petaris> ?
<Petaris> Specifically graphics support
<Goosemoose> wow, too quiet in here todya!
<Goosemoose> today
<Petaris> yeah
<Petaris> Goosemoose: I don't suppose you know if there is support for AMD Geode LX800 Graphics chipsets?
<Petaris> I thought I saw something in the handbook but now I can't find it
<Petaris> ahh, it was on ltsp.org's site
<Petaris> ahh
<Goosemoose> unfortunately no
<Petaris> maybe the nsc driver is what I need
<Petaris> apparently nsc only supports the older GX1 and GX2 chipsets
<Petaris> :(
<Goosemoose> anyone using preseed with edubuntu?
<Goosemoose> anyone using preseed with edubuntu?
<das-t> sorry, not yet
<Goosemoose> ok, having problems with the pressed file
<das-t> i read so, but unfortunately i do not have a solution too. tried preseeding once with sarge, but did not succeed at that time. hat too little time to look into it.
<das-t> ok, good night everybody
<lns> das-t, night?? it's 2:00pm here in cali. ;)
<joebob777as7> lns, isn't that technically afternoon? ;)
<joebob777as7> unless the smoke down there is still dense enough to blot out the sun... lol
<lns> joebob777as7, not too bad anymore. ;)
<Goosemoose> anyone see something wrong with this line: tasksel tasksel/first multiselect ubuntu-minimal,ubuntu-standard,ubuntu-desktop
<Goosemoose> trying to get preseed to work for edubuntu
#edubuntu 2007-12-07
<steph_> Can I rm initrd.img.old and vmlinuz.old from / ?
<crimsun> those should be mere symlinks.
<crimsun> so, yes, if you really wish to.  If you use GRUB (which one does by default), you can use tabbed path-completion at the GRUB prompt anyhow.
<steph_> what is the link between these files and GRUB ?
<crimsun> those symlinks point to their respective files in /boot
<crimsun> they only exist if you either 1) install another Debianised linux package using dpkg, or 2) create them manually
<crimsun> GRUB is the default boot loader, and its configuration file uses those symlinks.  Those entries normally point to the second set of linux images.
<steph_> Is the second set a "kind of emergency files" ?
<crimsun> yes, the entries point to the older, previously installed linux set.
<crimsun> i.e., "backup"
<steph_> Did GRUB will automaticaly switch to it in case of a bad luck ?
<crimsun> no.
<steph_> I did a updated from 7.04 to 7.10. And there is now a initrd.img -2.6.20-16,  initrd.img -2.6.20-14 and initrd.img -2.6.20-16.bak.
<crimsun> yes, that's correct.
<steph_> I just want to understand what's "under the hood"
<crimsun> what would you like me to explain regarding those three files specifically?
<steph_> I just started to explore files and folders from / . Now I have to read http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/ ;)
<steph_> Do I have to keep the old one (initrd.img -2.6.20-14 and initrd.img -2.6.20-16.bak) ?
<steph_> I thought there was "cleaning" after an upgrade...
<crimsun> 2.6.20-16 is a newer package than 2.6.20-14.  There are numerous security errata applied.
<johnny> you want to understand what's under the hood, read the linuxfromscratch howto :)
<steph_> where???
<johnny> then you'll really understand :)
<johnny> web search it
<crimsun> You may choose to remove the 2.6.20-14 linux packages if 2.6.20-16 does not introduce any regressions.
<steph_> web ?? (I'm jocking)
<crimsun> I do not recommend removing the backup initramfs image /ever/.
<johnny> i don't say "google it" anymore...
<johnny> i use other search engines too afterall
<steph_> Is it the right channel to LEARN BY QUESTIONS, or am I to boring ?
<johnny> well you should learn by reading first
<johnny> and then ask questions
<steph_> Thanks. Humility is the path to knowledge...
<johnny> this prolly isn't the right channel .. but i don't know what would be the best for that
<johnny> except for #gnulinux101 (sadly it doesn't exist)
<johnny> i'm always willing to help folks learn stuff when i have time.. unless they are going to work with me on open source projects
<johnny> then i spend all sorts of time :)
<steph_> see you soon.
<steph_> We have 15 old PII 400 with 512MB RAM, including hard drive, that we wanted to recycle at school.
<steph_> What would be the best? A powerful server with LSTP and light clients or a medium server with heavy clients and LDAP and MySQL?
<MasterOne> Damned, just recently I found a link to an edu-something site, which had the recent version of libflashsupport as a .deb package, but I am unable to find that site again. The version from vdbonline.net is over 1 year old, and a recent version is supposed to operate more stable. Anyone seen the site I mean?
<Joris_> some of my LTSP clients don't start their Xserver anymore since updating the server to gutsy
<Joris_> locally X works with the i810 driver - I tried changing it to 'intel'
<Joris_> after the boot process, the system stops with blinking a '-' in the upper left corner  of the display
<Bauer|> Ctrl-Alt-F1 - is there any error-message?
<Joris_> nope, just the login prompt
<Joris_> I don't know where to look for logs :/
<Bauer|> /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
<ogra> Joris_, some intel cards try to forcefully run at 32bt colordepth but aret capable of that ...
<ogra> try X_COLOR_DEPTH=24 for them
<Joris_> ogra: tried that too, sorry :/
<Joris_> Bauer|: that's on the server?
<Joris_> Bauer|: I mean LTSP server, xorg client
<Joris_> ogra: 16bit even
<Bauer|> I am thinking the client
<Joris_> how would I login into it?
<Bauer|> now thats a good question :p i don't know :p i would think ogra knows?
<ogra> define SHELL_07=ldm  SHELL_02=shell
<ogra> that spawns a shell on tty2
<Joris_> in lts.conf ?
<ogra> ad keeps to try to configure and start X on tty7
<ogra> yep
<Joris_> [00:02:A5:23:FA:85]
<Joris_> SHELL_07=ldm
<Joris_> SHELL_02=shell
<Joris_> is that correct? it appears not to work
<ogra> thats correct
<ogra> should work
<Joris_> doesn't... login on tty1, failed X on 7
<ogra> tty2
<ogra> ?
<Joris_> ctl+alt+f2
<Joris_> err
<ogra> yep
<ogra> there should be a rootshell running
<Joris_> 1, 2, 3 are empty
<ogra> then yur lts.conf isnt read or the MAC is wrong
<Joris_> hmm, mac = copypaste, so that should be ok
<Joris_> if lts.conf isn't read that could explain wy setting the xserver or colordepth doesn't solve anything
<ogra> does your lts.conf lie in the path thats defined in the filename directive in your dhcpd.conf ?
<ogra> thats where it should reside
<Bauer|> you do upgrade you image after editing lts.conf?
<Joris_> Bauer|: no, I didn't' - should I?
<Bauer|> i have to rebuild my image after editing lts.conf
<Joris_> ogra: no, it doesn't: option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386" and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<ogra> Bauer|, not if you have your lts.conf in the right path
<ogra> Joris_, "filename" not root-path
<ogra> root-path isnt used at all in gutsy ltsp
<ogra> (only there for backwards compatibility)
<Joris_> tought so, it's commented in that file there :)
<Joris_> filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0"; and filename "/ltsp/i386/nbi.img";, so it should be ok?
<ogra> right
<ogra> hmm, thats strange
<Joris_> trying with inotify o the file
<ogra> you didntput links into that folder or something i suppos
<ogra> e
<ogra> (tftp isnt capable of following links ... )
<Joris_> I did, to figure out another problem - but removed them again
<ogra> (especially not outside its own root (/var/lib/tftpboot/))
<Joris_> according to inotify, my lts.conf is not being read :s
<Joris_> (iwatch -e access  /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf does not register any reads-
<Joris_> in.tftpd[1240]: RRQ from 192.168.0.78 filename /lts.conf
<Joris_>  in.tftpd[1240]: sending NAK (1, File not found) to 192.168.0.78
<Joris_> something is really really wrong
<Joris_> without changing anything, the client now does request the lts.conf
<Joris_> and is now unresponsive, blinking with the caps and scroll lock
<Joris_> maybe it's better to reinstall the server completely
<Joris_> (screen hangs on kubuntu progress bar btw)
<ogra> its missing the path
<ogra> filename /lts.conf must be filename /ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<ogra> are you sure the dhcpd you configure is actually used ?
<Joris_> good question
<ogra> paste your config to a pastebin
<Joris_> http://pastebin.com/m67a7298b
<ogra> and your tftp line in inted.conf has "-s /var/lib/tftpboot" at the end ?
<Joris_> yes, can you refresh that url?
<Joris_> open http://pastebin.com/m54c93530 rather :)
<ogra> whats pxelinux.0\377 ??
<ogra> thats broken
<ogra> also: ls -la /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp would be intersting
<Joris_> I tried copying the file because some clients request that
<ogra> no, thats an internal code of PXE
<Joris_> ah, oh :/
<Joris_> that's also giving me problems...
<ogra> show me ls -la /var/lib/tftpboot and ls -la /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp
<Joris_> http://pastebin.com/m1284b79b
<Joris_> (staring on line 54)
<ogra> yeah, nothing suspicious
<ogra> make a backup of your lts.conf, wipe the i386 dir and run: sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<ogra> then copy the lts.conf back
<ogra> that should clean up anything you could have broken
<Joris_> ok :D
<Joris_> boots without the caps/scroll blink again, but still no xserver
<ogra> shell ?
<Joris_> neither :(
<ogra> why did you put the |uniq in the lts.conf part ?
<Joris_> whitespace
<ogra> ergh
<Joris_> there are no double entries of any kind I think
<ogra> sillyness
 * ogra headdesks ...
<ogra> s/SHELL/SCREEN/
<Joris_> ouch :D
<ogra> blind me
<Joris_> great
<ogra> you can drop SOUND,LOCALDEV and SYLOG_HOST ther are set by default to these values
<ogra> *they
<Joris_> ughm
<Joris_> [00:02:A5:23:FA:85]
<Joris_> SCREEN_07=ldm
<Joris_> SCREEN_02=shell
<Joris_> right?
<ogra> yeah
<Joris_> doesn't work :/
<Joris_> but the file is requested, according to inode
<ogra> did it fix your PXE error on the other terminals ?
<Joris_> nope, no idea how
<ogra> any info in the logs ?
<ogra> with your triple -v you should see everthing tftpd does
<Joris_> just the not found \337
<Joris_> RRQ from 192.168.0.78 filename /ltsp/i386/boot/pxelinux.0\377  -> NAK
<ogra> your is clean now btw ?
<ogra> err
<ogra> your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/
<Joris_> I think so
<Joris_> I ran the kernel update thing
<ogra> whats boot ??
<ogra> thats shouldnt be there
<Joris_> a symlink to .
<Joris_> did I break that too? :(
<ogra> but you just wiped that dir
<ogra> how can it be there again
<Joris_> I don't know
<ogra> there should only be three links (vmlinuz, initrd.img and nbi.img)
<Joris_> manually removed it, ltsp-update-kernels and now itt's gone
<ogra> and one subdir pxelinux.cfg
<Joris_> http://pastebin.com/m54c83221
<Joris_> no pxelinux.0?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> the dir looks good now
<Joris_> I'll retry
<Joris_> what's wrong with that /ltsp/i386/boot/pxelinux.0\377?
<Joris_> client boots, but no X and no shell
<ogra> well, i wonder how you get the boot in there
<ogra> it shouldnt be there
<ogra> something is really wonky, either in your chroot or with the setup of your server
<Joris_> and NO /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf read!!?!
<Joris_> pfff
<Joris_> I think something went really wrong with the gutsy upgrade of this machine
<ogra> you are not running another dhcpd in your network or so ?
<Joris_> yes, but it is pointing to me as it's next-file
<Joris_> next-server
<ogra> upgrade ?
<Joris_> or something
<ogra> but you rebuilt the chroot as advised i hope
<Joris_> it was a 6.06/7.07 and updated it to 7.10
<Joris_> certainly, I rebuilt the chroot
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> do you have any other tftpd running ?
<Joris_> on the network? not sure, but not on this server
<ogra> ok
<ogra> how does your /opt/ltsp/i386/boot/pxelinux.cfg/default look like ?
<ogra> (paste here, should be one line)
<Joris_> root@dotkomserver:~# cat /opt/ltsp/i386/boot/pxelinux.cfg/default
<Joris_> DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash
<ogra> looks fine
<ogra> /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default has the same content i suppose
<Joris_> identical
<ogra> i really dont understand how it gets the boot in there :/
<Joris_> it could be I did it, but I don't tremember
<Joris_> ogra: I can reinstall the server :?
<Joris_> directly from 7.10
<ogra> yes, but i'dlike to find the cause :)
<mcfloppy_> is there a way to run ltsp 4.1 and 5.0 together?
<mcfloppy_> cause i need ltsp 4.1 for my netvista devices and the other pcs from the system running under 5.0
<ogra> mcfloppy_, there surely is, but i bet its a lot work to set up the servers right
<Joris_> ogra: I'd be more than happy to dig further into this, but:
<Joris_> not today, I have to get going
<Joris_> and also: they are depending on me getting a lot of clients functional, I don't know how long the current situation can persist
<ogra> dpkg -l ltsp-server ?
<Joris_> it's installed
<ogra> and chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l ltsp-client-core
<Joris_> 138 files
<ogra> i want to compare te versions :)
<mcfloppy_> ogra hmm kay,
<mcfloppy_> what would you do?
<Joris_> http://pastebin.com/m741771bf
<ogra> mcfloppy_, well most easy would be to have two different networks (a NIC each) for the different implementations and direct either to different files in the dhcpd.conf
<ogra> Joris_, ok
<mcfloppy_> orga du sprichst doch deutsch, oder?
<ogra> if oyu start splitting on a higher level it gets more tricky
<ogra> mcfloppy_, jup
<Joris_> ogra: you can email me at my nickname @v5.be... I'll come back to this channel to haunt you some more later
<mcfloppy_> ogra bitte lass uns das in deutsch klÃ¤ren...
<mcfloppy_> query oder so
<ogra> #edubuntu-de :)
<Joris_> ogra: thanks and have a nice weekend
<ogra> ciao
<bddebian> Heya
<lns>  Is there a grub boot option in Ubuntu/Edubuntu Gutsy to boot the server kernel directly? I need this for correct hardware detection for my Proliant servers...
<lns> as in, from the live/install cd
#edubuntu 2007-12-08
<barbara_>  can someone help me i'm in a real bind for time. I am trying to print a pdf in gutsy to send to someone so they can print it off but when i print it as a pdf it puts the margins wrong so when they print it it cuts off parts of the page....
<HedgeMage> What are you printing it in?
<barbara_> HedgeMage, just one of our form programs we use... xournal
<HedgeMage> barbara_:  oh, so it's a problem with pdf generation, not printing the pdf?
<barbara_> right
<HedgeMage> I don't know xournal, but something I often see is the paper size option set wrong -- for example on A4 when you want US letter
<barbara_> HedgeMage, how do i set that for the pdf printer?
<HedgeMage> it should be in xournal's options somewhere -- I've never used xournal
<barbara_> HedgeMage, looking at the program and it is set to US Letter
<HedgeMage> barbara_:  I have no clue then, sorry
<johnny> maybe it's the paper sizing in the pdf printer..
<johnny> doesn't cups have it's own pdf printer?
<barbara_> johnny, i'm using the cups pdf printer and it's screwing up my margins...
<johnny> the same that that the internal pdf exporter does?
<johnny> you can export to pdf and then open it up in evince and then print it?
<barbara_> well evince isn't even printing for me right now so i'm using xournal to try to print it.
<johnny> if evince isn't printing, you have other problems
<johnny> can you print from gedit?
<barbara_> it's weird i had to export it as a pdf then i printed from xournal which fixed my margins then i scanned it in using gscan2pdf and that fixed it...
<johnny> well if you can't print from evince, you should get that looked into at some point
<johnny> i just know that it prints for me
<barbara_> yeah this ltsp thing is just crazy buggy
<barbara_> works fine ootb at my other location
<barbara_> johnny, I went in and modified the PDF.ppd file for cups pdf the imagable area was wrong. However this still didn't fix it... do you know if there is another ppf that I need to modify?
<johnny> no idea
<johnny> i've never used any of these programs you're speaking of
<johnny> you might want to check the bug list
<barbara_> HedgeMage and johnny thx for the help I figured it out! it was the PDF.ppd file by default has the wrong paper margins for US_Letter. compared to my other printer and it works great now
<johnny_> anybody here build packages for ubuntu?
<Flosoft> hi
<Flosoft> I want to setup an entire school network using Edubuntu
<Flosoft> the idea is to have Thin Clients using LTSP, but I also have Fat Clients for the teachers and more load intensive works
<Flosoft> how do I best sync users?
<Flosoft> maybe some centralized authentification?
<das-t> i am only starting with edubuntu too but my idea would be: use a central ldap server for storing the user information
<Flosoft> hmm
<Flosoft> that was my first idea too
<Flosoft> but I want something very easially manageable
<Flosoft> and maybe also set permissions etc.
<Flosoft> we need to have class folders
<das-t> http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/LDAP_Client_Authentifizierung <<< a quick research. i don't know, how usable this is.
<das-t> that could be done via nfs and group settings imo. though again i believe that ldap would help.
<Flosoft> hmm
<Flosoft> my idea was to have a shared /home via nfs
<Flosoft> and then maybe kerebros?
<das-t> shared home ... one home for all? i have never thought about that, i just guess it might get a bit strange if several people are using the same home at the same time.
<Flosoft> no
<das-t> http://wiki.debian.org/LDAP
<Flosoft> I mean: the /home/ is shared on the server ... and then mounted on the fat clients via NFS
<das-t> ok, i have never attempted that.
<das-t> and isn't kerberos just a way to encrypt the identification process? not to send plain passwords etc
<Flosoft> you're asking the wrong person :)
<das-t> ok, then we misunderstood each other regarding the homes ;-)
<das-t> that is what i remember
<das-t> i think it is this way: you can use kerberos for identificatin (windows machines with active directory use this) and then ldap as a central user database. so you should as well get a centralized way for access control.
<Flosoft> hmm k
<das-t> i am no expert and just guessing from half-burried windows knowledge. i am just about to look into all this again because i want to build a samba ldap server
<Flosoft> ah
<Flosoft> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenLDAPServer
<das-t> yes, kerberos is just an authentication method to prevent man in the middle.
<Flosoft> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SingleSignOn
<Kamping_Kaiser> Flosoft, you want ldap
<Kamping_Kaiser> and yes, you could do nfs homes
<Flosoft> is this the thing I want? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SingleSignOn
<Kamping_Kaiser> i've abused pam to do that in the past, but i was havving nfs/dns issues :\
<Flosoft> it uses OpenLDAP
<Kamping_Kaiser> libpam-ldap is ultra handy in this instance
<Flosoft> the thing I need is something easially manageable ... a webinterface?
<das-t> there are ldap interfaces
<Kamping_Kaiser> what sort of easily? i find typing 'ldapadduser' fairly painless myself ;)
<Flosoft> hmm
<Flosoft> I was at first thinking about using Ubuntu Landscape
<das-t> well, i am a console guy too, so i don't konw
<Flosoft> to sync the users between the workstations etc.
<Kamping_Kaiser> using libpam-ldap+openldap you dont need syncing. it'll look up users as needed
<Flosoft> yeah
<Flosoft> what about groups etc?
<Flosoft> I don't want the users to see all the configuration settings
<Flosoft> can I hide them for a linux group?
<Kamping_Kaiser> you can put groups in ldap... is that your question?
<Flosoft> well what if I don't use ldap for now
<Kamping_Kaiser> you can try NIS+ (i havent) or some mashup of puppet/cfengine (i have)
<Flosoft> what do they do exactly?
<Kamping_Kaiser> !nis
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about nis - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Kamping_Kaiser> bah. nis= network information services
<das-t> i don't know nis, but as far as i know it is inferior to ldap, i was told it was difficult to manag.e
<Flosoft> ok
<Kamping_Kaiser> nis? its effectively superceded by ldap
<Kamping_Kaiser> sorry, that was agreeing with das-t , not some new point ;)
<das-t> ;-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> !puppet
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about puppet - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Kamping_Kaiser> !cfengine
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about cfengine - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Kamping_Kaiser> frigsake ubotu!
<Kamping_Kaiser> i've needed you to know 3 things in the last few days, and you didnt know any
<Kamping_Kaiser> wonder if the ops would mind me spamming more suggestions to them
#edubuntu 2007-12-09
<ace_suares> hi all
<ace_suares> I am runnign a dhcp serve ron another server fthen the ltsp-server
<ace_suares> but the thi client gets an ip address but no tftp
<ace_suares> i inculded next-server in dhcpd.conf
<ace_suares> but it didn't work
<ace_suares> any ideas
<emmet> anyone here ever done apresentation to a public school about switching to edubuntu? any tips?
<LaserJock> emmet: the edubuntu-users mailing list is a good place to ask that
<ken> help: i am installing edubuntu on machine A, and am going to boot machine B directly from it with a cross cable. the point is i need machine A (server) to also have a usable edubuntu setup. how do i do this?
<ken> someone?
<LaserJock> ok, so you want to install Edubuntu on machine A
<LaserJock> bah
<nibl> need help with pxe client boot, anybody around?
<nibl> client boots, shows splash then drops to busybox
<nibl> it's a new 7.10 installation, any clues?
<johnny> you get a splash screen on thin client? lol
<johnny> i don't even get one of those
<nibl> nobody around/awake?
<johnny> you could try startx manually
<johnny> and see what happens
<nibl> i get initramfs, can you startx from there?
<nibl> the splash onlz shows for 2 secs
<nibl> are there any logs for what is wrong on the client?
<johnny> perhaps
<johnny> check them on the server
<johnny> or, disable the splash screen is stuff happens before the logging starts
<johnny> if*
<johnny> uhmm.. i dont' quite recall the file name
<johnny> perhaps in /var/lib/tftproot
<nibl> ok, i'll check that.
<nibl> i wonder if syslog could run.
<johnny>  /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<johnny> that's it
<nibl> thanks.
<johnny> remove quiet
<johnny> and splash
<johnny> you can prolly comment out the old one
<johnny> and have a new one without
<nibl> what does 'quiet' mean?
<Kamping_Kaiser> <ace_suares> any ideas <- whats the existing dhcp server?
<ws1> hi guys, im having problem in ldm
<ws1> the server shows successful login but in client, it says verifying username and password
<ws1> and then again ldm is displayed
<ws1> guys i found the problem, it was sabayon
<ws5> im getting different resolutions in different systems, weird
<shishirjha> can anybody suggest me the best way to change the clients screen resolution
<ace_suares> Kamping_Kaiser: you still there ?
<johny> hi there
<johny> can anyone help me with software development
<johny> I need to develop some software and don't know where to begin with edubuntu
<johny> If someone could please point me in the right direction on where to start I would greatly appreciate it
<jbrefort> develop what kind of software?
<jbrefort> johny, you should search if there is already a related project fisrt, no need to duplicate the efforts
<johny> I want to develop a landscape design proggy with a gui
<johny> I have experience in c++ and pascal in the past
<johny> This is all with microsoft
<johny> I'm trying to get away from microsoft and wish to learn more about linux
<jbrefort> great :)
<johny> I'm still learning about linux and have come quite aways but I can't find anything on even how to make the most simplest hello world
<jbrefort> there are already many  projects, so may be one can do what you want and you do not need to start from scratch
<jbrefort> well hello world is quite easy
<jbrefort> I suppose you want the message in a popup window?
<johny> first of all where would I go to even get to a development environment
<johny> yes a poppup window will work for now
<johny> do i just use a word processor
<johny> and where would I find the compiler
<jbrefort> there are several, I'm using anjuta because I'm using gtk+
<jbrefort> the compiler is gcc
<johny> gtk+ is good
<jbrefort> (it does not support pascal)
<johny> no but it does support c and c++
<jbrefort> yes, and some others
<jbrefort> you need to install gcc and g++ (I don't remember the package names)
<jbrefort> g++ is the c++ compiler
<johny> yes dev c++ uses it and that is what I was using in windows
<jbrefort> ok
<johny> but I don't like microsoft that's why I went to ubuntu
<jbrefort> if you use anjuta, it will help you to create a new project
 * jbrefort don't use ubuntu
<jbrefort> but no microsoft things around :)
<johny> anjuta is it a package I can install
<jbrefort> yes
<johny> I like the philosophy of the linux community
<jbrefort> you are welcome :)
<johny> and am all for supporting open source software
<johny> thank you for the info
<johny> I'll check out anjuta
<johny> just what I needed is a pointer to a development environment I can use to get started
<mcfloppy_> which thin client is a good choice?
<mcfloppy_> the n2200 netvista are to slow :(
<mcfloppy_> but i dont want to buy a very expensive hardware
<juliux> mcfloppy_, transtec has some nice thinclients
<Flare183> Flare183 is at Walmart
<das-t> have fun ;-)
#edubuntu 2008-12-02
<LEOLH> hello all
<freetown> hi
<LEOLH> does anyone know how i can make edubuntu usb portable for my step daughter?
<sbalneav> Evenig all
<Fritz87> evenig.
<generalsnus> so.. where can i set a skeleton/profile template for new users? i want to remove stuff on the panel/set wallpaper etc... so they cant change it again
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> generalsnus: Have a look at sabayon
<Ahmuck> is there a way to limit a student's time logged on?
<Ahmuck> like a timer?
<Ahmuck> another question.  there are some software that is just not available for linux, such as artrage.  is there a way to limit the number of processes?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: No, currently, there's no timer function.
<sbalneav> Certainly iTalc would allow you to log students off, if you need to.
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: i've tried italc, but have not read the documentation yet.  italc is only showing the computer i was using, not all of them
<Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: do u have link to the current documents?
<Eeyore-Jr> Nubae's website appears to be down
#edubuntu 2008-12-03
<rozika> could i ask for some help on this channel, or does it have a topic already?
<Eeyore-Jr> k, i forget, where is the manual again?
<Eeyore-Jr> nn
<sbalneav> evening all
<generalsnus> What is the best disk cloning tool, i can use for linux? i have a HD here, id like to clone. ive tried ghost, but it wont find my external hd, so i can save a image
<willvdl> jaunty jackalope. heh. still makes me laugh
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> generalsnus: There is a "ghost fo linux" or g4l project
<sbalneav> http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l
#edubuntu 2008-12-04
<racquad> hi guys. i'm trying to create a ltsp-cluster using heartbeat. the problem is that when my two nodes are up, my thinclient cannot connect at all. how can I define which server it will connect?
<EAG> hello
<Ahmuck> 400 page manual for microsoft works 95 ... those were the days
#edubuntu 2008-12-05
<ball> hello freetown
<freetown> hello ball
<freetown> what can i do for you?
<ball> I was just saying hello.
<freetown> ah, :-)
<freetown> work in a school? :-D
<ball> No, not at present
<freetown> oh...interesting that you are here then :-)
<ball> I've been interested in edubuntu for a while, but have yet to try it.
<ball> I need to set aside appropriate hardware first.
<ball> Is LTSP an optional part of Edubuntu?
<ball> ...or is it considered integral?
<freetown> ball, i'm new to Ubuntu and Edubuntu...the alternative install of Ubuntu Hrady appears to have LTSP as an option...or...I'd say LTSP is integral to Ubuntu...at least from Hardy onwards
<freetown> the new edubuntu is an addon to Hardy...so...there you go
<ball> Hmm... okayh
<ball> hello foka
<foka> Hello ball!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<OculusAquilae> Hi
<OculusAquilae> Has somebody a working installation of ubuntu on a terminal server where users authenticate via ldap over network
<OculusAquilae> In the school I install a terminal server, we have a problem that ldap users can login on the server itself, but if they try to do the same on one of the thin clients, they can't log in
<OculusAquilae> but there is a message saying that it is checking the password
<OculusAquilae> Has somebody an idea, where we could find the problem
<OculusAquilae> We use ubuntu 8.04 on this server
<nubae> !seen laserjock
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<nubae> hmmm
<anothernick> hi! i have a quick question. anyone available to help me?
#edubuntu 2008-12-06
<FrederickJHome> Hi! The ps2 mice on my two client machines are not working but they were before. Any ideas?
<FrederickJHome> xk
#edubuntu 2008-12-07
<sbalneav> Evening all
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> How is your night going?
<sbalneav> Well, Just going to do a little work on the docs
<sbalneav> Blew out my driveway at the cottage today, so I'm a bit sore.
<HedgeMage> ahh
#edubuntu 2009-11-30
<mhall119> dgroos: we don't talk about the 28th
<sbalneav> dgroos: <nervously> No, I.. I.. don't KNOW anything about the 28th!!! I was home all that day!  With a cold!
<dgroos> You think it has something to do with... 2012?
<dgroos> yea, and do you have internet access... AT YOUR HOUSE????
<dgroos> g'night :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav!
<sbalneav> So, is it this week the elections are held?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: stgraber pinged Lns to create his wiki page
<highvoltage> sbalneav: that's the only outstanding query the CC has
<highvoltage> sbalneav: in the meantime we should just go on and do stuff and not let it get in the way too much, we pretty much know who's going to be in the EC anyway judging by the amount of nominees :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: we just won't have an EC meeting in the next 7-14 days or so
#edubuntu 2009-12-01
<nubae> alkisg u around?
<alkisg> Heya nubae, what's up?
 * alkisg is trying google apps for my domain...:)
<nubae> in my python code i'm running into  Â¡a reocurring peoblwm when using gettext (the internationalisation module)
<nubae> i keeo getting back global variabke "_" not defned
<alkisg> Urm, I haven't done any internationalized apps in python, but feel free to describe the problem...
 * alkisg also thinks nubae needs to change his keyboard layout :)
<alkisg> stgraber has put this to italc-launcher:
<alkisg> # gettext
<alkisg> gettext.textdomain('italc')
<alkisg> _ = gettext.gettext
<nubae> yeah this keyboard sukcs quite badly
<alkisg> Doesn't that mean that "_" needs to be assigned to gettext.gettext?
<nubae> the problem I get is everything launches fine, but after -iget udeclared _ which is the translation delimiter
<nubae> gonna see if itsnot just a suse thing
<alkisg> nubae: see here: http://docs.python.org/library/gettext.html
<alkisg> It says that you have to ***define***  "_" yourself, like stgraber did
<alkisg> Hereâs an example of typical usage for this API:
<alkisg> import gettext
<alkisg> gettext.bindtextdomain('myapplication', '/path/to/my/language/directory')
<alkisg> gettext.textdomain('myapplication')
<alkisg> _ = gettext.gettext
<alkisg> # ...
<alkisg> print _('This is a translatable string.')
<alkisg> So if you didn't do: _=gettext.gettext, you need to do it.
<nubae> yep mine is done exactly like that
<nubae> i fear there is a missing tool somewjere
<alkisg> That only applies to the current module, so if you have a lot of modules, you need to do it for each one of them
<nubae> yeah I know... that part is done right
<nubae> whats not done  right is this globall declaration thing... I wasnt getting htat always b4
<alkisg> Want to send me the code to see if it runs OK in my ubuntu?
<nubae> oh sre
<nubae> im making a vifgial macine anwyway though
<nubae> virtual even
<phant0m_> umm any idea how to get to efnet from here pls??
<sbalneav> Morning all
<researcher> its night in India dear
<researcher> but gud morning to everybody there
#edubuntu 2009-12-02
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: still up?
<Ahmuck> alkisg: what major city are you next to?
<alkisg> Hi Ahmuck
<alkisg> It's called "Ioannina", it's on the mainland, somewhere near Corfu
<alkisg> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=el&q=&vps=2&jsv=191a&sll=39.674495,20.840141&sspn=0.130011,0.308647&ie=UTF8&cd=1&split=0&geocode=FX9iXQIdzf49AQ
<Ahmuck> athens work ?
<alkisg> Yeah, ok... why?
<Ahmuck> world clocks
<alkisg> Ah, sure, Athens it is, then :)
<Ahmuck> well, i'm sleepy
<Ahmuck> nn
<alkisg> 8:00 pm here, good morning all :)
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: Winnipeg
<Ahmuck> 8pm?  i was thininking 8 am
<sbalneav> New sabayon in my ppa
<alkisg> Sorry, am
<sbalneav> Now with 10000% more manual.
<Ahmuck> well, my heart is telling me it's time to rest
<Ahmuck> l8r
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: You wanted me?
<Ahmuck> just checking ur timezone
<Ahmuck> were in the same timezone
<alkisg> sbalneav: are you going to get us a live LTSP for edubuntu Lucid? Need any help?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> Not on my radar
<sbalneav> Why do we need it?
<alkisg> Well we were talking about it on the last edubuntu meeting
<alkisg> But I think you were afk for some time then so you might have missed it
<sbalneav> I wasn't at it.  This is about booting thin clients from the cd?
<sbalneav> i.e. the live cd can also boot thin clients?
<alkisg> No,
<alkisg> about a live ltsp blob on the server CD
<alkisg> Which should be un-squashfs'ed upon installation, if the user selects to install and LTSP server in Ubiquity
<alkisg> This way we'll be able to remove the text-based ltsp installer
<sbalneav> And that's important because.....?
<sbalneav> As opposed to fixing bugs, and getting actual useful documentation?
<alkisg> Not my call :)
<alkisg> I just wanted to help there :)
<Ahmuck> i'll be doing a visual documentation pdf soon
<alkisg> But I think it *is* important, e.g. many teachers here downloaded a live ltsp dvd that I've made...
<Ahmuck> ie, screenshots, lots of screenshots
<Ahmuck> anywho, i'm about ready to sleep on the keyboard, sooo, again, nn
<alkisg> Bye Ahmuck
<sbalneav> I wouln't want to see the text based ltsp installer removed, since the alternative cd's are all I ever download.
<alkisg> It won't be removed from the alternate cd
<alkisg> Just from the edubuntu dvd - if what highvoltage and stgraber said actually happens...
<sbalneav> I don't understand why we'd need to waste valuable space with a huge static blob of ltsp, which can be built very easily, as opposed to putting content on the dvd, things like moodle content, more edu programs, etc.
<alkisg> To enable people to try ltsp before installing it to a server
<alkisg> People can test moodle online, but not ltsp
<alkisg> And I don't think it needs more space than the alternate installer...
<sbalneav> And have absolutely sucky performance since it's running off a cd, then throw away the whole concept of an ltsp lab based on that experience.  "You mean it's going to run this slow? Screw that!"
<sbalneav> Whatever.  I'm going to go on record as saying I think it would be a massive waste of time, compared to some of the more pressing issues we've got, but people can work on whatever they'd like.  I ain't the boss :)
<alkisg> I think an appropriate message on the "start an LTSP server" icon would solve that problem :)
<sbalneav> people don't read docs NOW
<sbalneav> Whatever.
<sbalneav> Anyway, I've had enough for the night.  Off to bed.
<alkisg> OK ok I was just trying to offer help :)
<alkisg> Goodnight sbalneav
<sbalneav> Not at all, if that's what you want to see happen, make it happen!
<sbalneav> I'm merely (as always) stating my opinion.
<alkisg> I did, I already have a live ltsp dvd
<sbalneav> So then if you've already done it, why do we need it?
<alkisg> It's just being generated from a script (remastering) instead of seeds etc, as I don't know the technology there..
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> I don't know the technology either.
<sbalneav> But I better learn it before the next release, or we're not going to HAVE a next release.
<alkisg> Anyway we'll talk about it again on the next meeting, I guess, and either approve it or ditch it then.
<sbalneav> I won't vote either way.  I'll never ever stop someone from doing something they want to do.
<sbalneav> Everyone's got their itch to scratch.
<sbalneav> anyway, past midnight here.  Yawn goodnight.
<alkisg> bye...
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Balsaq> is edubuntu still maintained and updated as an individual distro?
<sbalneav> Yes
<sbalneav> We have DVD images that can be installed.
<Balsaq> i heard it was on the fritz
<sbalneav> Heard what was on the fritz?
<Balsaq> the edubuntu project
<sbalneav> WHere'd you hear that from?
<Balsaq> people online
 * sbalneav shrugs
<dinda> sbalneav: are the edubuntu apps in the Main or Universe repository?
<sbalneav> Well, *I*'m here, the channels here, and there are DVD images you can download, that install edubuntu
<sbalneav> dinda: some in main, a lot in universe.
<dinda> sbalneav: http://www.edubuntu.org/applications/ claims they are all in Main - is there a way to tell which are where - easily?
<Balsaq> i'm glad to hear this is a false rumor, my wife is a teacher and i want to get her a computer with edubuntu installed as a surprise, but i want her to have plenty of support as she learns edubuntu...now she only knows mac...leopard
<sbalneav> dinda: You'll notice that's a bit out of date :)
<dinda> sbalneav: yeah, see that :)
<sbalneav> Balsaq: Well, "plenty" of support is relative .  There's probably about 5 or so active Edubuntu devels.
<dinda> sbalneav: I'm trying to figure out the issue of 'official' support  from Canonical
<dinda> sbalneav: anything in Main we support, Universe - not so much
<sbalneav> Well, there's the issue of what CANONICAL supports, and what WE support.
<Ahmuck> dinda: canonical does have ltsp support contracts
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: which they send representatives into #ltsp to ask questions on :)
<dinda> sbalneav: yip, and I'm trying to sort out which pieces they/we (Canonical) do and don't support and why
<ogra> dinda, chriskenyon should know
<dinda> Ahmuck: the ltsp aspects are now part of the Server stack, so Canonical does fully support those
<ogra> dinda, edubuntu itself turned into a full community project
<dinda> ogra: I met with CK and we're both unlcear  ;)
<ogra> so there are the apps we had when i did edubuntu, these are in main
<ogra> then there is a gap where edubuntu was unmaintained for a while
<dinda> ogra: that's the list I'm looking for
<Ahmuck> the gapped list?
<ogra> and when the new edubuntu team took over a lot more apps were added, but due to the nature of it being a community project, these apps are in universe now
<Ahmuck> or the app list that was maintained when ogra was there?
<Ahmuck> isn't it edu-*
<ogra> the applist you see on edubuntu.org should be the one i brought to main
<Ahmuck> ubuntu-edu
<Ahmuck> and edubuntu
<Ahmuck> "sudo aptitude search edu*"
<ogra> the dvd you get today will have a lot more ... and for  a community project there is no need to push apps to main
<Balsaq> when it goes unmaintained, do the updates continue?
<ogra> as long as the edubuntu devs care
<Ahmuck> ogra: heh that in itself states canoical's position
<Ahmuck> edubuntu goes unmaintained?
<ogra> unlikely :)
<Ahmuck> nm, goes back to lurking
<Balsaq> can i burn edubuntu onto one 700mb cd?
<ogra> too many people care nowadays
<ogra> no, its a DVD
<Ahmuck> Balsaq: not currently
<Ahmuck> it's a dvd
<Ahmuck> 4G
<Balsaq> bummer i don't have a dvd burner
<Ahmuck> ding ding dign
 * ogra goes back to do his work and leaves answers to todays edubuntu devs :)
<alkisg> You can also put it to a usb stick...
<dinda> Canonical cares, just that for 'official' support we can only cover whats in Main
<Ahmuck> Balsaq: whatis your intent?
<dinda> thanks ogra!
<Balsaq> to surprise my wife
<Ahmuck> heh
<Ahmuck> u have children i take it
<ogra> Balsaq, you can use usb-creator to write the iso to a USB key and boot from that
<Ahmuck> edubuntu is "themed ubuntu" with additional edu apps thrown in
<Ahmuck> sooo, you can install ubuntu and then sudo aptitude edubuntu-artwork, etc
<Ahmuck> and you'll have a edubuntu desktop iirc
<Balsaq> there is an idea, i have burned the ubuntu cd
<Balsaq> is it all the same color theme if i do it that way
<Ahmuck> how does edubuntu impress your wife?
<Balsaq> Amuck...i dont know if it does impress her yet
<Ahmuck> what is it that impreses your wife
<Balsaq> but she is a middle school teacher
<Balsaq> and i am going to get her a computer for a small office in the basement
<sbalneav> Since I don't draw a paycheque from Canonical, I consider anything that's currently in Edubuntu supportable
<Ahmuck> i'd use the ubuntu cd, then pick up the edu apps you want and some additional ones, such as anki, ri-li, etc. etc.
<Ahmuck> what are you computer specs?
<Ahmuck> *your
<Balsaq> intel p4 2.4, 60g hd, 513rdram
<Balsaq> nvidia agp 64mb
<mhall119|work> doubling the ram would be good if you can
<Ahmuck> Balsaq: there's also qimo ...
<mhall119|work> if it's going to be running a lot of apps at once
<Ahmuck> :)
<mhall119|work> Qimo isn't for middle schoolers though
<Balsaq> and she will get  anew flat screen monitor with it
<Ahmuck> ah
<mhall119|work> most of our games would be too childish for them
 * Ahmuck wondered if ltsp would work
<mhall119|work> ltsp for a single computer in a basement?
<Ahmuck> mhall119|work: how do you approach middle school?
<Balsaq> because ubuntu and xubuntu runs great on this same type of configuration
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: when we donate to older kids, it's either regular Ubuntu or Kubuntu
<Ahmuck> on a side note, i am in the processes of boxing a large assortment of pc's to send to africa.  i was told they needed to be windows 2000 or windows xp
<Ahmuck> mhall119|work: how do you donate, what qualification process is there?
<Ahmuck> mhall119|work: r u using anything below 1Ghz?
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: we run on word-of-mouth
 * Ahmuck is getting ready to prep 10 this morning
<Ahmuck> mhall119|work: ah
<Ahmuck> i might consider that route then
<mhall119|work> people come to us and say, "Hey, that family or that daycare could really use one of your computers"
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: we've recently been asking for P4 or better
<mhall119|work> mostly because it takes too long to get anything older into working order
<mhall119|work> but we've given out a good many <1Ghz P3s and even a couple of P2s
<Ahmuck> mhall119|work: u might consider some of the derivities.  ie, moonos has a ldxe version, and i saw some that were a mix of openbox, ldxe, and enlightenment
<Ahmuck> worked very well
<mhall119|work> memory is really our only concern with Qimo, since the kids aren't heavy multi-taskers
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: I'm trying to keep up with the Lubuntu developments
<Ahmuck> all ubuntu derivities
<Ahmuck> ah, i've chucked xubuntu in favor of moonos ldxe version
<mhall119|work> I'm looking at possibly rebasing Qimo on LXDE
<Ahmuck> for the lower end pcs
<mhall119|work> right now XFConf is kicking my ass when trying to make better packages
<Ahmuck> that'd be kewl.  i'd certianly use it 4 sure then
<Ahmuck> fwiw, nubae built a html database of edu apps
 * Ahmuck doesn't remember where it's located at  however
<Ahmuck> nubae: what is the largest city from your location?
<alkisg> Ahmuck: why all the timezone-collecting? for meetings?
<Ahmuck> more for knowing how to coordinate my questions for meetups on irc
<Ahmuck> so if i need to be here at optimal time at 1:00 am in the morning to catch somebody i know what the time difference is
<alkisg> :)
<nubae> Ahmuck, thatst excellent, so how, in python bindings? mysql?
<Ahmuck> nubae: ?
<flint_> highvoltage, Jonathan what up?
<highvoltage> flint_: I was just about to go to sleep actually :)
<sbalneav> Hey flint_
<flint_> sbalneav, yes
<flint_> highvoltage, nighty night...
<highvoltage> g'night flint_
<flint_> highvoltage, See ya January...
<flint_> sbalneav, still trying to get the time and date of the edubuntu meeting correct... everyone needs a hobby...
<flint_> sbalneav, I am currently betting on Friday, 4 December at 17:00 GMT...  But I have been wrong before... heh...
<flint_> :^)
#edubuntu 2009-12-03
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, bottom line, in my opinion, if your going to do ltsp, buy a good server, and then buy new thin clients
<Ahmuck-Jr> lower power consumption, more memory, faster bus speed, etc.
<Ahmuck-Jr> working on a 2ghz, 3g ram thin client, and it's like i'm sitting directly at the server
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, using scribus, firefox, and hugin, while trying to preview in open gl prolly won't work in ltsp client
#edubuntu 2009-12-04
<sbalneav> evening all
<cprofitt> hello all....
<cprofitt> nixternal: you present or just cruising?
<nixternal> both :)
<Ahmuck> ogra, i see ur on the lubuntu testing list
<cprofitt> cool...
<Ahmuck> highvolt1ge: i see ur on the list as well
<cprofitt> nixternal: was wondering what you thought of having a 'distinguished educator' program
<cprofitt> http://edcommunity.apple.com/ali/story.php?itemID=9671
<cprofitt> for an Apple example
<nixternal> that's pretty groovy
<cprofitt> I figure it would highlight success stories... generate interest... reward those advocating and using FOSS in education
<nixternal> there are some really cool articles on that page actually
<nixternal> I am going to pass this on to kde-edu folks to look at
<cprofitt> nixternal: thanks
<cprofitt> also -- the NYSCATE event went well...
<cprofitt> and I think I may be able to pull together a 'team' to give a full day hands on 'class' with Ubuntu and Open Source applications for next year
<cprofitt> http://nyscate.wikispaces.com/Educational+Technology+and+Equity+in+Today%27s+Schools
<nixternal> figures, flash died on me :)
<cprofitt> need the last few lines I typed?
<cprofitt> nixternal: did you get the link or should I give it to you again... not sure if you are web IRC or not
<nixternal> I got it
<nixternal> irssi all the time :)
<cprofitt> yes, that is what I am using... though I am a novice with it still
<cprofitt> nixternal: how possible do you think it would be to get some $$$ for Ubuntu/Canonical to do the larger EdTech shows? like ISTE?
<cprofitt> http://center.uoregon.edu/ISTE/2010/
<nixternal> that I have no clue
<cprofitt> are you familiar with ISTE?
<cprofitt> nixternal: is RichardWeiderman still around?
<nixternal> last I heard he is gone...he left right after UDS Jaunty
<nixternal> not familiar with ISTE
<cprofitt> check ISTE out if you can... has anyone repalced Richard?
<nixternal> not that I know of... ogra would know though
<cprofitt> ogra?
<nixternal> he is in this channel, he works for Canonical and knows everyone there
<nixternal> bbiab...gotta get a hold of this torn apart laptop :)
<cprofitt> ogra: ping... are you home?
<alkisg> !info italc-master lucid
<ubottu> italc-master (source: italc): Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers (master part). In component main, is optional. Version 1:1.0.9.1-0ubuntu16 (lucid), package size 1081 kB, installed size 1680 kB
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav
<sbalneav> Heya
<cprofitt> dinda: you here?
<cprofitt> hello ogra
<mhall119|work> did you guys read this article: http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/12/03/2157250/Children-Using-Technology-Have-Better-Literacy-Skills
<mhall119|work> bah
<mhall119|work> direct link to the article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8392653.stm
<cprofitt> bah?
<mhall119|work> expression of frustration
<mhall119|work> because I pasted the wrong link
<cprofitt> interesting article... similar 'research' here in the states
<cprofitt> mhall119|work: what do you think of Canonical having a distinguished educator program?
<cprofitt> http://edcommunity.apple.com/ali/story.php?itemID=9671
<cprofitt> similar to that
<mhall119|work> cprofitt: that would be good, I think
<sbalneav> Never happen
<cprofitt> why would it never happen?
<mhall119|work> I understand that there is a strong desire in Canonical to do more in education and schools, but no real ideas yet as to how that would manifest
<cprofitt> well... to be honest I think I can help that... at least in the states
<cprofitt> they need to go to ISTE - IMHO
<sbalneav> We used to have at least a couple of people who were paid by Canonical to work on Edubuntu.
<cprofitt> and do something to acknolwedge teachers who are utilizing Ubuntu/Edubuntu and open source
<sbalneav> They're not anymore.
<cprofitt> sbalneav: I have heard that...
<mhall119|work> ISTE?
<sbalneav> Edubuntu's a "community" distribution.  I.e. we support it ourselves with no support from Canonical.
<cprofitt> http://center.uoregon.edu/ISTE/2010/
<sbalneav> other than using their infrastructure.
<cprofitt> I attended NYSCATE and have more planned for next year... http://www.nyscate.org/conferences.cfm?subpage=361
<cprofitt> Perhaps Canonical would re-think that if we have some concrete plans... and it showed progress
<mhall119|work> cprofitt: there's a huge conference happening in Orlando soon for educational software providers and the school officials who purchase them
<cprofitt> I am not sure what the other folks did.
<cprofitt> mhall119|work: yes... that one is another huge one...
<cprofitt> ISTE is likely a little bigger I think...
<mhall119|work> cprofitt: like I said, Canonical wants to do something, they just don't know what that something is
<mhall119|work> cprofitt: I thought about trying to get a booth at the Orlando expo, but good god are they expensive
 * sbalneav goes back to working on bugs...
<cprofitt> mhall119|work: yeah... NYSCATE was $750
<sbalneav> If we don't get the next release out the door, there won't BE an edubuntu :)
<mhall119|work> cprofitt: this was like $3500
<cprofitt> I got a free one at EdTech Day... and I think that it is possible due to many educators being in to FOSS to arrange deals to reduce the cost.
<cprofitt> I think I have a shot of getting a booth for free at next years NYSCATE
<cprofitt> ... good talking to you both... I gotta run...
#edubuntu 2009-12-05
<cprofitt> dinda you here?
<mhall119> cprofitt: when is the NY show you were talking about earlier?
<cprofitt> mhall119: it is every November
<cprofitt> so we have a full year to plan :-)
<mhall119> ah, ok
<cprofitt> I gave a presentation this year...
<cprofitt> next year I want to do a few presentations and one full day hands on lab
<mhall119> that would be cool
<cprofitt> it would be... and from talking to people it would be of interest to teachers
<mhall119> if it were a little further sound I might be able to make it
<cprofitt> mhall119: where are you located?
<mhall119> FLorida
<mhall119> which is why I was interested in the Orlando show
<cprofitt> ah... yeah the Orlando show would be good...
<cprofitt> I may still have a few contacts in Florida... I will dig for those in a few minutes
<sbalneav> yeesh. Looks like screem needs a lot of work :(
<ehrenpr> sbalneav, do you know if it is super easy to set up a fat client network with edubuntu? I tried the nubea plugin but couldnt get it to work with karmic.
<sbalneav> It's not super easy, no.
<sbalneav> in other words, it's not integrated
<sbalneav> but nubae's plugin should work.
<sbalneav> But certainly localapps works fine.
<sbalneav> if you need a little less than a full fat client.
<ehrenpr> Thanks. I have 12 client connected to a dual 2.00 processor and its gettting crushed
<ehrenpr> My student are addicted to flash and java
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> youtube only?
<sbalneav> if so, take a look in #ltsp, I'll paste a helpful script
<sbalneav> Or, if you'd prefer, just install firefox as a local app, and the flash and java plugins
<sbalneav> that way, MOST things will be on the server, but the firefox and cpu killers run on the thin clients.
<ehrenpr> I tend to have the kids doing the same activity, and even gcompris can hurt.
<sbalneav> How much ram in the server?
<ehrenpr> Originally 8g but then had lots of problems with the x64 server. and the 386 clients.
<ehrenpr> when I check system monitor, it shows the ram not being that effected, put the processors are maxxed out.
<sbalneav> ok, yeah, so then either faster processors, or localapps
<ehrenpr> for local apps how do I determin what name to put into LTS.conf for individual programs.
<sbalneav> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsFirefox
<sbalneav> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSPKarmicLocalAppsFirefox
<ehrenpr> I did that but, how do i do that for gcompris, or tuxpaint?
<ehrenpr> also on edubuntu a coule of my client screens ended up upside downn and backward, do you know of any quick fixes?
<sbalneav> same way
<sbalneav> chroot into the ltsp chroot, apt-get install gcompris, etc.
<ehrenpr> ok, ill try that. Thanks
<sbalneav> as for the screens
<sbalneav> could be a driver issue
<NetLife> hello, anyone want to help me?
<sbalneav> Depends
<sbalneav> If it's about edubuntu, sure.  If you want me to change your tire, you're on your own :)
<NetLife> haha, it's about ubuntu and bootable usb
<NetLife> I can't boot a usb flash drive with persistence if I use an nvidia agp card
<sbalneav> Does it work otherwise?
<ehrenpr> thanks sbalneav. maybe ill switch back to edubuntu. Right now kiwi-ltsp. was super easy to setup. I just dont know how to use local aps on it.
<sbalneav> ehrenpr: well, channel's here, pop by if you need any help
<sbalneav> I'm here most days.
<ehrenpr> thank you
<NetLife> sbalneav, yes, if I use another (pci) video card, OR if I boot without persitence then it boots
<sbalneav> NetLife: Sounds like a bug with the nvidia card buggering with the USB drivers to me.
<NetLife> the nvidia card or the motherboard agp is what I'm thinking
<Tm_T> hmmm, are different edubuntu- metapackages explained somewhere? my search-fu fails
<alkisg> Tm_T: you mean about what they contain? You can see that from apt...
<Tm_T> alkisg: heh, I was hoping the purpose of those metapackages been written somewhere so I could direct people to read there
<alkisg> Tm_T: you're welcome to help in the wiki/docs etc :)
<alkisg> (and I don't really know if they are documented or not...)
<Tm_T> alkisg: yup, will look at that if cannot find anything
<PaulD> hello
<PaulD> I'm having a lot of trouble trying to watch TV from any application except "mplayer /dev/video0"
<PaulD> I think I've tried them all
#edubuntu 2009-12-06
<Sp133n> anyone know where I can find the checksum for edubuntu 9.10?
<sbalneav> For which, the iso?
<sbalneav> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/9.10/release/
<sbalneav> MD5sums is at the top
<sbalneav> Morning all
<dgroos> Good Morn.
<dgroos> Chilly 'up north'?
<sbalneav> Only -10 at the moment
<sbalneav> balmy weather for this time of year
<dgroos> is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
<mhall119> it's 50F here
<mhall119> so 10C, according to the google
<sbalneav> C
<dgroos> mhall119: You're in US/Florida?
<dgroos> In my yard here in US/Minnesota it's also -10Âº C or 16Âº F.
<dgroos> An interesting feature of an irc app would be to plot current chat-room members' locations on a google map based on their ip.  So, click on a button and it takes you to a world map showing from where people are logging in.  Maybe some might not like to share that info, though.
<mhall119> dgroos: yup
<mhall119> we're all freezing
<mhall119> dgroos: can probably be done with a bot
<dgroos> mhall119: cool. someday I may look into that.
<pleia2> I think it'd would be wrong too often to be very useful
<pleia2> I come in to IRC from a server in Texas, but I'm frequently in Pennsylvania these days
<mhall119> someone in the florida loco goes through a russian proxy
<mhall119> so yeah, it may not work so well
<mhall119> maybe a LP lookup would be more accurate
<dgroos> Ah, right, proxies.  What's an LP lookup?
<mhall119> dgroos: Launchpad lookup
<mhall119> since so many people have their IRC nick listed, and also have their correct location entered for google maps already
<highvolt1ge> ,wub 13
<highvolt1ge> oops
<mhall119> irssi?
<highvolt1ge> mhall119: yep
<livingtochill> any teachers here?
<alkisg> livingtochill: yup
<livingtochill> woohoo
<livingtochill> do you use edubunut?
<livingtochill> tu?
<alkisg> Heh, I never get that reaction from my students :P :D
<livingtochill> me neither.  what do you teach?  I teach 6-8 grade ESL in Memphis, Tennessee.  Home of Elvis.
<alkisg> I'm a teacher using ubuntu/ltsp and of course educational apps, but not edubuntu per se (too childish interfaces for my students :()
<livingtochill> i use xubuntu
<livingtochill> using lxde as my windows manager
<livingtochill> but i like the xfce apps
<alkisg> The last 3 years I taught at 12-15 y.o. kids, this year at 15-18 yo
<livingtochill> do you use italc?
<alkisg> Sure, a lot
<livingtochill> I can't make it work, for some reason.
<livingtochill> My host machine never works.
<alkisg> LTSP or standalone computers?
<livingtochill> standalone
<alkisg> Did you copy the keys from the server to the clients?
<livingtochill> think so.  i haven't worked on it in a good minute.
<livingtochill> the host program would launch on my netbook
<livingtochill> which is the teacher computer
<alkisg> Are you there now, to try some commands?
<livingtochill> no
<alkisg> Do you have a pc to use as a client?
<livingtochill> i'm just yacking on an idle sunday.  :)
<alkisg> (or even a vbox pc)
<livingtochill> I think I'm going to have to get one.
<livingtochill> The tech teacher has some old PCs that I've been fixing up for him.
<livingtochill> I think I'm going to have to ask for one.
<alkisg> Usually the problem is in the key copying/permissions
<livingtochill> That's what it kinda felt like.
<alkisg> I need to find the time to update the wiki page about this :(
<livingtochill> I'm here to farm some ideas.  I'm giving an edupunk-themed presentation on Wednesday
<livingtochill> http://midsouthedupunk.wikispaces.com
<alkisg> Heh, nice word (edupunk :))
<livingtochill> it's not mine
<livingtochill> guy named jim groom
<livingtochill> it's on wikipedia
<livingtochill> (therefore it must be real!)
<alkisg> (or they put it there :P :D)
<livingtochill> What kind of apps do you use with your students?
<livingtochill> Like, the showstopping stuff.
<alkisg> Well here (Greece) we have edu* apps from our ministry, so I'm using those
<livingtochill> Really?
<alkisg> They were windows apps, but I've packaged them into .debs and I've setup an ubuntu repository with them
<livingtochill> What do they do?
<alkisg> So now I just do sudo apt-get install "secondary-school" and I'm done :D
<alkisg> Geography, Chemistry, Mathematics, Informatics etc etc
<alkisg> For all the lessons we have an app
<livingtochill> oh, those.
<livingtochill> not the edubuntu programs, but custom-made greek ones?
<alkisg> Yup
<livingtochill> Sweet
<alkisg> Me, I'm an informatics teacher, so I mostly teach them openoffice, ubuntu usage, web usage, and some kturtle greek variant
<livingtochill> have you tried etoys?
<livingtochill> from squeakland.org
<alkisg> Nope, first time I'm hearing about them. But some teachers here are using http://scratch.mit.edu/
<livingtochill> Scratch is built on the same foundation as etoys.
<livingtochill> i don't like scratch, personally.
<livingtochill> it's all too often used just for animations
<alkisg> Hey, those etoys look nice.. do they play nice with Ubuntu?
<livingtochill> etoys, on the other hand, is powerful enough to be used to develop games and simulations
<livingtochill> quite.  The new version, etoystogo, is splendid
<livingtochill> the showcase has lots of cool projects
<livingtochill> i've got one on there, too
<alkisg> Hey, it's even in the Ubuntu repositories!
<livingtochill> that's an older version
<livingtochill> or it was last time i checked
<livingtochill> see if this works: http://squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7804
<livingtochill> i was getting an error
<alkisg> !info etoys lucid
<alkisg> !info etoys
<ubottu> etoys (source: etoys): A media-rich model, simulation construction kit and authoring tool. In component multiverse, is extra. Version 3.0.1916+svn132-2 (lucid), package size 12536 kB, installed size 37188 kB
<ubottu> etoys (source: etoys): A media-rich model, simulation construction kit and authoring tool. In component multiverse, is extra. Version 3.0.1916+svn132-2 (karmic), package size 12536 kB, installed size 37188 kB
<livingtochill> squeakland.org has version 4
<alkisg> Hmmm 3.0.2177 on the site...
<alkisg> ? where?
<livingtochill> http://squeakland.org/download/
<alkisg> Ah I only saw the older version at the bottom :D
<livingtochill> choose the etoys to go version
<alkisg> http://squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=7804 => 500 Servlet Exception
<livingtochill> etoys ships standard on the olpc computers
<livingtochill> bummer
<livingtochill> it's a jeopardy-style game
<livingtochill> nothing better than a quia.com game, but I made it myself and it's good for standardized test review
<livingtochill> I have a tic-tac-toe game,as well
<livingtochill> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaCncmnVIAE
<alkisg> livingtochill: if people are using this, and Lucid ships with and older package, we could make a version-4 package and put it to the edubuntu ppa...
<alkisg> (to be easier to install)
<livingtochill> easier = better
<livingtochill> the idea of etoys to go, though, is that you don't install it
<alkisg> Well the idea of packages is that you get updates :)
<livingtochill> it's a bit buggy, though, as to where it stores its files
<alkisg> Even the packaged version?
<livingtochill> no, the packaged version is cool.
<livingtochill> version 4 does a good job at scaling projects across different screen resolutions
<livingtochill> as my eeepc has taught me
<alkisg> OK, we could package the 4 version then, no problem there...
 * alkisg wonders what version debian testing has...
<alkisg> Heh, it even has Greek translations! Nice!
<livingtochill> it's a nice package
<livingtochill> great for school
<livingtochill> check out www.waveplace.com
<livingtochill> that guy has been teaching etoys to kids in the caribbean
<livingtochill> he's got nice tutorial videos
<livingtochill> Man, I haven't been on IRC in YEARS.
<livingtochill> I was searching and searching for an educators channel, but not enough teachers are technical enough to access this, I guess.
<livingtochill> not in the states, at least
<alkisg> #edubuntu is also at a low ebb these times... :-/
<livingtochill> boo
<livingtochill> but true
<alkisg> Some years ago many more people were hanging around here... I hope we can make it better again in the future
<livingtochill> I wish educators were better about collaborating.
<livingtochill> Not even just ubuntu users
<alkisg> Right, I know what you mean...
<alkisg> I got a forum which is visited regularly by many thousands of Greek informatics teachers
<livingtochill> american education is in a sad, sad state
<alkisg> Only about 300 of them actually offer content or participate in general :(
<livingtochill> but what about math teachers, language arts teachers, science teachers
<livingtochill> edupunk is about that, in a way
<livingtochill> getting ALL teachers networked
<livingtochill> i think everyone just uses twitter
<alkisg> Most math, language etc teachers here don't know how to surf the web or join a forum...
<livingtochill> but that is so limiting
<livingtochill> same here
<alkisg> Only the younger teachers are computer literate
<livingtochill> but i'm working on that, one teacher at a time
<livingtochill> i've put linux into about 10 teachers' classrooms.
<livingtochill> replacing their dead computers
<livingtochill> and i'm giving this presentation on wednesday
<alkisg> Heh, nice, but what about support?
<livingtochill> edupunk is also about doing it yourself.  ;)
<alkisg> Do they call you when they have problems?
<livingtochill> yes, they do
<livingtochill> each school has a "technology coordinator" who is supposed to do just that job
<livingtochill> unfortunately, ours are stupid
<alkisg> I also helped a lot of teachers here to switch to ubuntu/ltsp, so I guess I'm an edupunk too :P
<livingtochill> the teachers know this and call me, instead
<livingtochill> YOU ROCK!
<alkisg> Unfortunately here the informatics teacher has also sysadmin duties :-/
<livingtochill> Our informatics teacher (we just call her the computer teacher) is a big fat woman who looks like she's always pregnant and has never heard of linux
<alkisg> ...so I'm trying to make a click-and-install remix of edubuntu/ltsp to give to them
<livingtochill> ooh
<livingtochill> that should be cool
<alkisg> I know exactly what a greek computer teacher needs, so I'm trying to offer them that out of the box
<livingtochill> what about regular content area teachers?  Do you support them, as well?  Do they have computers in their classrooms?
<alkisg> I hope I'll have it ready by Lucid...
<alkisg> The 12-y.o. students here were ALL given a netbook by the edu ministry
<livingtochill> wow.
<alkisg> And they're supposedly being taught 4 lessons with the help of computers
<livingtochill> the whole country?
<alkisg> Yes
<livingtochill> awesome
<alkisg> It's the first grade of secondary school
<livingtochill> are they theirs to keep for their whole life?
<alkisg> Yes.
<livingtochill> is this going to happen every year?
<alkisg> And we were able to put dual boot windows/linux on its specifications
<livingtochill> do the schools have WiFi?
<livingtochill> screw that.  save cash and drop Windows.
<alkisg> Not yet... some parents were against this
<alkisg> It's not up to us :(
<livingtochill> the netbooks or the wifi?
<alkisg> The wifi
<livingtochill> safety issues?
<alkisg> Health issues, I imagine...
<livingtochill> wow.
<livingtochill> is there research backing that up?
<alkisg> They hope they'll be able to offer netbooks every year, but I'm not sure they'll be able to do it. Greek economy is a mess, and I don't know if the EU will keep sponsoring it...
<livingtochill> Some schools in the states are doing netbooks
<alkisg> Nope, parents and media here don't listen to reasearchers a lot :D
<livingtochill> but i teach in memphis, which is VERY poor
<livingtochill> Have you ever read The Magus by John Fowles?
<alkisg> Nope, I'm not much of a books person. I've only read some Stephen King books and the Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy...
<livingtochill> it's set in greece and the main character is an englishman teaching english for the british council.  Good read.
<livingtochill> not at all relevant to our discussion, but just a cool sidenote.
<livingtochill> since the kids will all have netbooks, do you think you'll use moodle or something?
<alkisg> Well.... I think it's too "early" for moodle
<alkisg> The teachers and the students here are not ready to use it properly
<livingtochill> give it time, i guess.  It's a good way to structure online learning, though.
<alkisg> I *am* using a blog to give exercises to my students, but I imagine that only a handful of secondary school teachers here do that.
<livingtochill> I use a google group.
<livingtochill> groups.google.com/group/mrfowles
<livingtochill> and we use google docs extensively
<livingtochill> it's really fun.  I can give them instant feedback.
<alkisg> I'd like to try cooperating with empathy the next time I get a chance
<alkisg> Empathy has a "people nearby" function which should be useful
<livingtochill> ooh.  i've not used empathy.
<alkisg> E.g. send/receive files, messages, remote desktop etc
<livingtochill> i switched back to pidgin
<alkisg> The students can share URLs... typical IM stuff, but with automatic people discovery
<livingtochill> that should be cool
<alkisg> ...and I'm trying to make a classroom control app
<livingtochill> controlaula and italc not enough?
<alkisg> Nope
<alkisg> controlaula is too unstable for me, and italc doesn't do enough
<livingtochill> what more do you want from italc?
<alkisg> E.g. I want to be able to automatically create user accounts, put some bookmarks on them, send them some files, ...
<livingtochill> gotcha.
<alkisg> ...you know, if a plugin framework is made, I guess tens of plugins would be made
<livingtochill> suppose so
<alkisg> Have you used controlaula?
<livingtochill> tried, but didn't succeed
<alkisg> Yup, same here.
<alkisg> And it doesn't even uninstall whatever it installs...
<alkisg> I had to delete the avahi service it made manually, and lots of other stuff
<livingtochill> i didn't really check it that deeply
<livingtochill> what do you think it would take to get your older teachers to use technology?
<alkisg> Money :P
<livingtochill> ah
<alkisg> They gave a netbook to whoever teacher offered to teach the students with the netbooks
<livingtochill> but without wifi....
<alkisg> All teachers, including ones that didn't know anything about computers, offered to do so :)
<livingtochill> for the free computer, no doubt
<alkisg> It's difficult to persuade a 50 y.o. teacher to change his teaching habbits
<livingtochill> some would argue that it is necessary to do just that
<livingtochill> in the states, we have this sense that we are going straight to hell in a handbasket and it's largely the fault of the teachers
<livingtochill> We have many good teachers, young and old.  Same with bad.
<alkisg> Really? I thought the states had a pretty good education system...
<alkisg> (after finland :) but still, good enough...)
<livingtochill> We have good universities.
<livingtochill> Our urban schools are pretty bad.
<livingtochill> Many are extremely violent.
<alkisg> Ouch
<livingtochill> my girlfriend works at a school that is nicknamed "little iraq"
<livingtochill> Chicago is a hellhole: http://www.catalyst-chicago.org/notebook/index.php/entry/412/Violence_on_the_rise_inside_Chicago_high_schools
<alkisg> The worse thing here is that we have some private "schools" called "frontisteria", where students go to learn only the lessons that they are examined in, when they want to be accepted to univercities,
<livingtochill> no extra classes?
<alkisg> so the students don't pay attention at all at the regular school, because they think they'll learn all they need from the "frontisteria" at afternoons
<alkisg> So for a student it is 7 hours in the morning of regular, obligatory school (=wasted time for him),
<livingtochill> eww
<alkisg> and 4-5 hours of "frontisteria" in the afternoon (they pay a lot of money there)
<livingtochill> are these kids generally from wealthy families?
<alkisg> Nope. All students do that in 15-18 age
<livingtochill> Korean schools have similar programs, but the kids are rather attentive at both places.
<livingtochill> Do they take an English test?
<alkisg> They have 2-3 hours of english lessons at regular school, but again, they don't pay attention
<alkisg> So they go to "frontisteria" from 10 y.o. to 18 y.o. and get a proficiency in english from there...
<livingtochill> interesting
<alkisg> (that's in addition to the 4-5 hours of afternoon lessons... :-/)
<livingtochill> so the regular schools have to really step up if they're going to reach the kids
<alkisg> It's a mess
<alkisg> No, we have to change the way the students are admitted to univercities
<alkisg> The exams as they are now are a curse
<alkisg> But the "frontisteria" teachers oppose to that, because they'll be out of job then
<livingtochill> what are they like?  I'm familiar with Polish exams, but none other in Europe.
<alkisg> When the students are 18 y.o. they are examined and graded in 4-6 lessons,
<alkisg> and then they choose univercities based solely on that grade
<livingtochill> not too different from Poland.  A huge exam at the end.
<alkisg> So kids from 15 y.o. and up are only thinking about those exams... :-/
<livingtochill> do the kids cheat a lot?
<alkisg> No, not in those exams
<livingtochill> so not like Poland, then.  ;)
<alkisg> Heh :D
<alkisg> How are students admitted to univercities in the states?
<livingtochill> 4 factors,usually
<livingtochill> 1.  high school grades
<livingtochill> 2.  ACT or SAT score
<livingtochill> 3.  Personal experience (volunteering, scouting, or other things like that)
<alkisg> Wow
<livingtochill> 4.  an essay (for better schools)
<livingtochill> the first two are the most important, of course
<alkisg> But all the grades are counted, not just the last year's grades, right?
<livingtochill> correct
<livingtochill> grade point average
<alkisg> That's what I'd like to happen to Greece :(
<alkisg> This huge exams that we have is destroying everything :(
<livingtochill> gotta get running.  good talking to you.
<alkisg> Bye!
<asdasd> http://www.sexy-lena.com/?uid=97447
<asdasd> http://www.sexy-lena.com/?uid=97447.
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#edubuntu 2010-12-06
<mhall119> highvoltage: ping
<mhall119> highvoltage: http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2295/xdglauncher.png it's working as a basic launcher now
<mhall119> I'm starting to work on packaging, I'll probably be asking you for help
<highvoltage> mhall119: pong
<highvoltage> mhall119: cool!
<mhall119> it's not working on old qimo sessions yet, something about where the xdg menus are located
<mhall119> but it works on Gnome sessions
<mhall119> enough to get a package into archives anyway
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> it's a start at least :)
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> and it'll stop kids from opening more than one instance of a game from the launcher
<mhall119> which is something that's been requested of us since 1.0
<highvoltage> mhall119: I fixed that in tuxlab before with a wrapper, I've wondered since if gnome doesn't provide something like that as well where you can check some things before launching an app
<mhall119> highvoltage: right now, the panel tracks if the child-process for one of the apps is still running
#edubuntu 2010-12-08
<vmlintu> For anyone interested, we finally got the sources out for our new user and device management tool for schools: http://www.opinsys.fi/en/easy-linux-administration-for-schools-with-puavo
<alkisg> Very nice vmlintu, I hope we see this in the debian/ubuntu repositories soon :)
<vmlintu> we'll see when all the dependencies get sorted out..
<MephistoM> hello everyone, is there a powerpoint version of the opening slideshow for edubuntu when you install it introducing the different programs available for download?
<mhall119> MephistoM: you can get them as HTML
<MephistoM> where would that be mhall119? thanks
<mhall119> MephistoM: one second
<mhall119> you want the ones for 10.10 right?
<MephistoM> yes please
<mhall119> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/edubuntu-live/maverick/files/head:/livecd/ubiquity-slideshow/
<mhall119> or you can "apt-get source edubuntu-live"
<highvoltage> good morning everyone
<MephistoM> thanks mhall
<mhall119> np
<mhall119> highvoltage: building my xdg-launcher packages
<mhall119> https://launchpad.net/xdg-launcher
<highvoltage> mhall119: cool!
<mhall119> highvoltage: what's the changelog line for closing a needs-packaging bug?
<mhall119> highvoltage: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/xdg-launcher
<alkisg> Meeting in half an hour?
<dinda> is anyone here located in the San Francisco Bay area?  I have a group looking for someone to appear on a TV show promoting Edubuntu
<mhall119> wow, tv!
<mhall119> pleia2 is there, IIRC
<pleia2> yeah, I'm attending
<dinda> mhall119: yes, local show apparently
<dinda> pleia2: I'll ask jono when he returns but he's offline at the moment
<dinda> pleia2: that's awesome that you're going to make it
<pleia2> dinda: thanks, I dropped him an email yesterday but he never responds to email :)
<dinda> I think he's doing his video show today
<pleia2> plus it's not strictly interview-style, we'll be among many folks in a studio box that they ask questions of, so it might not be interesting enough for him
<mhall119> dinda: post a link to the video once it's up please
<mhall119> I'm very interested
<dinda> mhall119: will do. I'll forward the show info onto the edubuntu list
<mhall119> cool, thanks
<highvoltage> moo
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting time!
<MephistoM> www.elderproject.knet.ca
<MephistoM> that's pretty cool, check it out...this guy uses edubuntu in First Nations schools in Canada
<MephistoM> Ontario
<dinda> mhall119: did you see that http://meeting.knet.ca/mp19/course/view.php?id=68  that link MephistoM posted?  it shows QIMO on a projector
#edubuntu 2010-12-09
<highvoltage> mhall119: you should probably remove README.debian and README.source from that package, since they aren't used
<mhall119> highvoltage: already did
<mhall119> dinda: awesome, thanks for the link
<highvoltage> mhall119: ah, I probably had an old revu page open then
<mhall119> I may not have uploaded it, I can't remember now
<mhall119> nope, looks like the version up there doesn't have them
<highvoltage> mhall119: uploaded, it's now in NEW
<mhall119> new?
<mhall119> what does that mean?
<highvoltage> mhall119: it means that it's uploaded, and an archive admin will check if it's good (which it is) before adding it to the archive. they do it for all new ubuntu packages
<mhall119> okay, cool
<mhall119> not I just gotta make it work
<mhall119> any maybe add some options/configuration, etc
<mhall119> I'm zsync-ing the xubuntu and edubuntu isos now so I can test it on them tomorrow
<highvoltage> stgraber told me about some serious python breakage coming soon due to the python 2.7 transition
<highvoltage> so it might be one of the last daily builds we have for the next week or so :)
<MephistoM> hey, has everyone checked this out: www.elderproject.knet.ca ?  Anyone know Canadian Edubuntu/Ubuntu groups that would be interested in?
<MephistoM> this guy uses some other distros too - QIMO, Edubuntu, and some other open source stuff for First Nations schools
<mhall119> MephistoM: dinda shared the link with us
<mhall119> I'm really pleased to see Qimo being used up there
 * highvoltage looks at eldersproject
<MephistoM> oh thanks guys
<MephistoM> I think it's really neat
<highvoltage> cool, there's even a weblive link on that site :)
<highvoltage> MephistoM: are you involved?
<MephistoM> not really, but I know the guy
<MephistoM> he goes to my university
<mhall119> MephistoM: make sure he knows we're here if he needs any help
<MephistoM> yeah, he doesn't have much interent up there, so sometimes he wants to know if there are people in Canada who might be interested in helping
<mhall119> probably, but canada is a pretty big place, and I think most of their loco members are clustered around the cities
<MephistoM> hmmmm, is there an IRC channel he can go to?
<mhall119> did you check loco.ubuntu.com?
<mhall119> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ca
<mhall119> #ubuntu-ca is their channel
<MephistoM> cool that's really awesome
<MephistoM> I'll forward it to him
<mhall119> also http://ubuntu-ca.org/
<MephistoM> truly awesome
<MephistoM> thank you mhall119
<MephistoM> what does everyone think of the project
<mhall119> no problem, and tell him I said keep up the awesome work
<MephistoM> definitely will
<mhall119> I'm really excited about it, Qimo isn't in too many schools in the USA, but it was great watchin the kids in his video interacting with it
 * mhall119 is the Qimo developer, btw
<MephistoM> mhall119!  very cool, I'm deeply honoured
<MephistoM> your distribution is lovely
<mhall119> thanks, it's going to be a part of edubuntu in 11.04
<MephistoM> very awesome
<MephistoM> QIMO is a kid favourite
<MephistoM> Mike (the ELDER developer) says that kids love it up there
<mhall119> I was wondering, where did he get those netbooks? they looked like they had ubuntu badges on the keyboards
<MephistoM> which video?
<mhall119> http://meeting.knet.ca/mp19/mod/book/view.php?id=3298&chapterid=1333
<mhall119> now, are these kids Inuit?  We've had some people in the past tell us that the name "eskimo" is offensive to some native canadians
<MephistoM> I believe those are a donation with the Lieutenant gov's office
<MephistoM> no, they are Ojibway
<mhall119> ok
<MephistoM> it actually speaks nicely to them
<MephistoM> they appreciate the imagery
<mhall119> I'm glad
<mhall119> they may be the most northern users of Qimo
<MephistoM> I believe so, when Mike went to Fort Severn he didn't install QIMO....he stuck mainly with ubuntu
<MephistoM> Fort Severn is the most northern part of Ontario he visited
<mhall119> ask him if he'd mind me posting a couple of his videos on qimo4kids.com
<MephistoM> sure thing, I don't think he does anyway, he's really open with sharing and stuff - true open source guy
<mhall119> cool
<MephistoM> but I will send him a text
<mhall119> i'll make sure to link to the project's website too
<MephistoM> sure, I'm sure he'll appreciate that too
<MephistoM> interesting thing - mike doesn't have a computer background, his major is in health sciences.  but he really would like to learn more so that he can go back and help
<MephistoM> he tries his best to learn about distros and stuff and bring it to the communities
<mhall119> he's doing some great work, that's for sure
<MephistoM> he says he feels like an idiot sometimes,
<MephistoM> when he began he was like.....what's an iso
<MephistoM> now he's quite good, and he loves experimenting - just he wishes he had the knowledge to write code to adapt it to the needs of the communities
<highvoltage> having a good attitude (ie, willing to experiment and learn) is a great start :)
<MephistoM> yeah XD he got a macbook this week, runs parallels to keep testing ubuntu and other stuff
<MephistoM> hilarious guy
<MephistoM> anyhow guys, thanks for all your help
<MephistoM> Mike says thank you as well
<MephistoM> bye
<MephistoM> have a great night
<mgariepy>  good morning everyone.
<highvoltage> good morning mgariepy
<mgariepy> how you doing highvoltage ?
<mgariepy> did you got out this morning to feel minus 12C ?
<vmlintu> good afternoon
<mhall119> morning
<MephistoM> morning everyone
<MephistoM> this is mike from ELDER
<MephistoM> I was wondering - the slider function during the installation method, is it as clean as the partitioning method (advanced)?
<highvoltage> mgariepy: hmm, my weather applet says it's -12 here
<highvoltage> mgariepy: I guess it must be lying :)
<highvoltage> MephistoM: hey Mike
<MephistoM> hey highvoltage
<MephistoM> how are you?
<highvoltage> MephistoM: good thanks and you?
<vmlintu> highvoltage: hi
<highvoltage> hey vmlintu
<vmlintu> highvoltage: puavo is now public in github and it's doing magical things for us
<highvoltage> vmlintu: oh, cool!
<vmlintu> http://www.opinsys.fi/en/easy-linux-administration-for-schools-with-puavo
<vmlintu> I'm working on more documentation now
<highvoltage> vmlintu: what does it use for an administration UI, if any?
<vmlintu> highvoltage: we built our own
<vmlintu> highvoltage: it's built just for schools and the whole UI is built so that you can easily manage multiple schools
<vmlintu> and oh, it's web based, if that's what you meant
<vmlintu> we already built ltsp clusters on top of it
<highvoltage> vmlintu: awesome, I'll give it a try!
<vmlintu> I have to warn that the docs probably still have missing pieces
<vmlintu> It relies also heavily on Puppet to do some dirty work
<vmlintu> I try to get a public demo running shortly also
<highvoltage> awesome
<vmlintu> highvoltage: I'm still having hard time to explain everything shortly, but let me know if you help installing it
<vmlintu> highvoltage: there's also more about the organisation model here: http://www.opinsys.fi/en/puavo-organisation-model
<YokoZar> Gonna be on TV for a local access show about linux in education :)
<YokoZar> *local news
<highvoltage> YokoZar: awesome!
<highvoltage> YokoZar: will you be able to youtube it?
<YokoZar> highvoltage: I can DVR it, it's a whole hour long show though
<mhall119> YokoZar: where at?
#edubuntu 2010-12-10
<highvoltage> YokoZar: ah ok. would nice to have it up somewhere, at least the relevant parts
<YokoZar> mhall119: San Francisco
<mhall119> ah, so you'll be on with pleia2
<YokoZar> I'll be in the audience asking questions actually
<mhall119> oh, ok
<mhall119> I think she'll be in the "Voice Box" or whatever it's called
<YokoZar> Right that's the audience question part
<mhall119> I hope it'll be online somewhere so the rest of us can watch it, and hopefully the non-technie anchors don't get too confused
<YokoZar> Yeah
<pleia2> and hopefully we'll actually get to talk, I watched an episode of the show earlier this week and the audience just got to vote and cheer
<pleia2> it was a bit underwhelming
<mhall119> :(
<mhall119> take over the show
<pleia2> hehe
<lgcovizzi> please, i need help with g77!
<lgcovizzi> how can i install the fortran 77, on ubuntu 10.10
<lgcovizzi> ?
<highvoltage> with patience
<mhall119> highvoltage: ping
<mhall119> highvoltage: I pushed a new version of xdg-launcher to revu
<highvoltage> mhall119: ah ok, no need to though, it's already in the NEW queue
<highvoltage> mhall119: and we just need one of two people to wake up and give you a +1 on that edubuntu-dev app then you could upload changes directly
<highvoltage> (well once it's in the package set, etc)
<mhall119> highvoltage: okay, you'll have to show me how to do that once I'm approved
#edubuntu 2010-12-11
<mcsean> Hi all -- I have a quick install question. I do not have a DVD burner available to me right now but I do have a USB drive with 10.04LTS Desktop. Can I install that and then do a sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-server to install Edubuntu and the LTSP server pieces?
<mcsean> Anyone there?
<charlie-tca> mcsean: It looks right to me. You should be able to do that
<mcsean> thanks, charlie-tca. the only thing that i'm not sure about is whether the ltsp setup scripts will be activated automatically after installing the edubuntu-server elements
<charlie-tca> I don't know that one, myself.
<mcsean> ok, thanks
<troy> Hello!
<troy> Can anyone recommend a version of edubuntu that will work with an older CPU, not requiring cmov in the processor?
<troy> I'd like to get the most recent workable ver.
<Laserbeak> hi there i'm following a tutorial to install ubuntu from the hdd with a .iso file.   I've set up grub( put the vmlinuz and initrd.gz in \boot\newinstall), but i get an error saying that it can't find the files needed to install. The tutorial i'm taking from the ubuntu website, never told me where to put the actual .iso image. where do i put it?
<alkisg> Laserbeak: link to the tutorial?
<Laserbeak> alkisg: it's on another comp lemme find it onthis one
<Laserbeak> sorry forgot to mention that
<Laserbeak> alkisg: i'm trying this
<Laserbeak> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/installation-guide/i386/boot-drive-files.html
<Laserbeak> which leads you to this https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/installation-guide/i386/ch05s01.html#boot-initrd
<Laserbeak> i'm doing it for grub
<Laserbeak> someone toldme to put the .iso file in the root of my hdd
<Laserbeak> so i sudo thunar and put the .iso in root
<Laserbeak> grub couldn't find it
<Laserbeak> do i need to rename the .iso or something?
<alkisg> Your purpose is to install edubuntu without burning a CD?
<Laserbeak> yes
<alkisg> Do you have 2 PCs on your local network?
<Laserbeak> yes
<alkisg> Can you install virtualbox or something in one of them?
<Laserbeak> installed
<alkisg> (in the one that you don't want to install edubuntu)
<alkisg> OK, then you can use a simple script I wrote which makes netbooting automatic
<alkisg> Let me get you the link...
<Laserbeak> XD
<alkisg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot#line-77
<alkisg> Boot the iso in the VM, put "bridged mode" for the ethernet, and just run the script
<alkisg> Nothing more needed :)
 * alkisg reads about the iso-based method...
<Laserbeak> bridged mode?
<alkisg> Yes in the virtualbox settings there are some modes for networking
<alkisg> NAT, bridged, host only etc
<alkisg> You need "bridged", for the VM to have an IP in the local network
<Laserbeak> ah cool
<Laserbeak> i'll copy it to the box with the vm and try it
<Laserbeak> thanks
<Laserbeak> i'll let you know what happens
<alkisg> np
<alkisg> Laserbeak: btw in the link you posted I don't see the .iso used anywhere, it speaks for a netinstall using a local kernel for the initial boot
<Laserbeak> sheesh
<Laserbeak> i dunno why i thought it was booting from an iso...
<laserbk> hello
<laserbk> it's me again
#edubuntu 2011-12-05
<pitti> mgariepy: hello
<mgariepy> hello,
<mgariepy> that was fast :)
<pitti> mgariepy: your comment is a little unclear, does that mean that it's already fixed in oneiric?
<pitti> you said for oneiric you only want a manpage fix (which is a separate bug from "translations not working")
<stgraber> hey pitti! we don't see you around here much :)
<mgariepy> so as i commented on the bug, the only difference would be the manpage change
<pitti> stgraber: mgariepy asked me to join
<stgraber> oh, that sounds like chemtool
<pitti> mgariepy: so this bug should then be marked as "fix released" in oneiric then?
<mgariepy> in oneiric it's not fixed.
<pitti> so, I'm confused
<mgariepy> ok, so the first patch 554084 is to apply a patch that is already applied to chemtool but outside of the packaging
<pitti> mgariepy: my objection is that https://launchpadlibrarian.net/86447561/chemtool_1.6.12-1ubuntu1.11.10.1.debdiff fixes tons of unrelated stuff
<pitti> like Makefile.am, linking, etc.
<pitti> or adding quilt, which is even wrong
<pitti> (as it's a 3.0 source)
<pitti> +  * debian/control (Build-Depends): add quilt to build-depends
<pitti> +  * debian/rules: Add patchsys-quilt.mk to rules
<pitti> this is really wrong these days
<stgraber> is it 3.0? I seem to remember it not being 3.0
<pitti> at least in precise; I don't have an oneiric chroot
 * stgraber checks
<mgariepy> chemtool in oneiric is only a copy of natty
<stgraber> pitti: the package switched to 3.0 in Debian with the sync I requested last week in Precise
<stgraber> pitti: so Natty and Oneiric aren't 3.0
<pitti> ah, ok
<stgraber> and had an in-line patch (to MakeFile) that got moved to a debian/patches patch in Debian, that's why I suggested mgariepy unapplies it and uses the one from Debian so diffing Oneiric to Precise is easier
<stgraber> we can probably keep it in-line, but I usually don't like these when you have more than one patch applied
<stgraber> the other extra patch (the one changing the bitmaps) is required for Oneiric as the current package only works because it's a copy from Natty, a no-change rebuild of Oneiric's current package would segfault at startup
<pitti> stgraber: ah, ok; so ok for me to add quilt, so this probably just needs some changelog cleanup and removal of unrelated stuff
<pitti> I sub'ed sponsors again
<pitti> but can't handle it any more, need to run for today
<stgraber> pitti: ok, thanks
<stgraber> pitti: I may just do it, last week was kind of busy but this one is much better. Thanks for the review and the comments!
<pitti> thanks
<stgraber> mgariepy: ok, so I guess the idea is to drop the manpage from the changes and update the changelog a bit
<mgariepy> ok..
<mgariepy> je vais le faire mais je ne sais pas quand.
<stgraber> For natty, I'd go with something like:
<stgraber>  * Cherry-pick bugfixes from Debian
<stgraber>    - Fix gettext support initialization (LP: #839745)
<stgraber>  * Move existing in-line changes to Makefile.in to a patch
<stgraber>  * Add quilt patch system
<stgraber> For Oneiric, something like this should do the trick:
<stgraber>  * Cherry-pick bugfixes from Debian
<stgraber>    - Fix gettext support initialization (LP: #839745)
<stgraber>    - Fix XPM color entries in bitmap1.h (crash at startup when package is rebuilt on Oneiric)
<stgraber>  * Move existing in-line changes to Makefile.in to a patch
<stgraber>  * Add quilt patch system
<stgraber> that should be minimal enough for the SRU team to be happy :)
<mgariepy> yeah.
<mgariepy> i'll do that when i have time.
<mgariepy> thanks pour ton aide stgraber
<stgraber> np
#edubuntu 2011-12-06
<head_victim> I'm giving away my old computers to my nieces and nephews and really like the idea of Edubuntu for them. The only thing is they're crappy old P4s, will Edubuntu run ok on them or should I install Edubuntu and Lubuntu and boot into LXDE but then have all the benefits of the Edubuntu program list?
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> head_victim: you could install lubuntu and then look for the education packs in software-center
<JerryNJ> can someone help me update rdesktop on ubuntu with the patch to alleviate the black cursor?
<JerryNJ> i appreciate it in advance
#edubuntu 2011-12-07
<head_victim> highvoltage: ahhh so like the "primary bundle" or "secondary bundle" ?
<head_victim> Interesting, I hadn't known they existed.
<highvoltage> head_victim: yep, they make it a bit easier to get the apps if you have another type of ubuntu system installed
<head_victim> highvoltage: thanks very much for that. I might have a toy with edubuntu on them and see if it's too slow. If it is I'll go with somethign lighter and install the relevant bundle.
<highvoltage> head_victim: yep, and even from edubuntu you could install a lighter desktop environment (such as gnome-fallback, xfce or lubuntu), also from the software center
<head_victim> highvoltage: just trying to install now. Trying to work out what modeset to stop a blank screen with a blinking cursor :/
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<JerryNJ> hey there
<JerryNJ> can someone help me update/upgrade rdesktop on the client-side of my ubuntu ltsp install?
<JerryNJ> can anyone assist me in updating the rdesktop on the client-side of ltsp on ubuntu 10.4
<freemason1977> got a bit of a odd happenings here,  my main desktop disappears on startup and i am greeted with a different blue desktop
<tbruff13> can someone help me please
<tbruff13> Can anyone tell me if the ubuntu release dates are the same as edubuntu
<stgraber> what, only two minutes :)
#edubuntu 2011-12-08
<tbruff13> can someone help me
<tbruff13> is anyone in this channel
<sagaci> hi
<tbruff13> sagaci: can you help me
<stgraber> tbruff13: hey, so for your question from earlier, yes edubuntu and ubuntu share release dates
<tbruff13> stgraber: oh another question how do i join the edubuntu meeting on january 11
<stgraber> tbruff13: it's going to be in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net, all you need to do is join that channel at the meeting time
<tbruff13> oh stgraber i am a high school student doing a senior project on linux in schools does which release of edubuntu is best 10.04 for LTS or 11.10
<tbruff13> this will be on 10,000+ computers
<stgraber> tbruff13: for big deployments, LTS is usually a good idea, 10.04 is the latest supported LTS at the moment, depending on when you plan on starting the deployment, you may also consider 12.04
<tbruff13> I will need to have everything ready by may so if i choose an LTS it will have to be 12.04
<tbruff13> my computer is frozen
#edubuntu 2011-12-09
<stgraber> highvoltage: did you see the release meeting (or the log)?
<stgraber> highvoltage: Riddell says he'll look at LTS for Kubuntu on Monday, hopefully can be done before the TB meeting
#edubuntu 2011-12-10
<head_victim> Just some market research for you in case you get questions on the topic, it would appear Edubuntu runs reasonable enough on P4s (around 3.0 ghz) without needing to change the window manager. Surprised me to be honest.
<alkisg> It runs on 1 Ghz P4s too, with 768MB RAM.
#edubuntu 2011-12-11
<tbruff13> can someone help me
<tbruff13> I am making an edubuntu iso for my high school can i package KDE in edubuntu 10.04 without running into to many issues
<tbruff13> also is there anyway i could make it so that teacher could choose a desktop environment and then remove the one they don't like without removing all programs that depend on it. for example lets says someone does not want KDE how can they remove that without removing all KDE programs like Kmplot
<tbruff13> is anyone in this channel
<alkisg> 24 persons, yeap
<tbruff13> alkisg: can you help
<tbruff13> me
<tbruff13> also is there anyway i could make it so that teacher could choose a desktop environment and then remove the one they don't like without removing all programs that depend on it. for example lets says someone does not want KDE how can they remove that without removing all KDE programs like Kmplot
<tbruff13> how can i do that
<tbruff13> i just copied and pasted so it does not look right but i need to know
<tbruff13> hello can anyone help me please
<alkisg> tbruff13: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PureGnome
<alkisg> That's how you remove KDE completely. Keep the packages you want, or reinstall them later.
<alkisg> But that's unrelated to #edubuntu, you can ask in #ubuntu instead.
<tbruff13> alkisg: also i need help
<tbruff13> how would i remove Gnome environment but key kubuntu
<tbruff13> i need to be able to let teachers do it both ways
<alkisg> For that too, ask in #ubuntu
<alkisg> Or read the link I posted above
<tbruff13> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PureKDE
<tbruff13> will that work
<tbruff13> let me try it
<tbruff13> I am running edubuntu in vbox so i can create a screenshot and then go back to it if i screw up
<alkisg> But remember that there's no need to install all that just in order to remove it later on
<alkisg> Either keep the desktop environments you want, and select them from the login screen,
<alkisg> or use live CDs to see which suits you better, before installing it
<tbruff13> alkisg: you are not getting it though i am creating this disc for my whole school
<tbruff13> I don't know what other people will like so i have to give them a way to remove the one they don't like
<alkisg> You're not getting it though, that's not the correct way to do it
<alkisg> Giving the ability to add stuff is preferrable than the ability to remove stuff
<tbruff13> alkisg: yeah but how am i supposed to tell them to add kubuntu when they have never tried it
<tbruff13> you see how i am stuck
<alkisg> That's what live CDs are for
<tbruff13> alkisg: i am creating a live cd
<tbruff13> for my school
<tbruff13> they do not want to use the default oner
<alkisg> Yes, I understand, many people do that here too. And I'm telling you that it's not the right way to do it, to add everything and tell them to remove stuff with a huge command line.
<alkisg> But whatever suits you...
<tbruff13> alkisg: i am not telling to remove with command line i am telling to remove with synaptic or software center
<tbruff13> i am doing the best i can
<alkisg> sudo apt-get --purge remove alacarte checkbox-gtk dcraw eog evince file-roller gcalctool gconf-editor gdebi gdm gdm-2.20 gedit gnome-about gnome-applets gnome-control-center gnome-icon-theme gnome-media gnome-menus gnome-nettool gnome-panel gnome-power-manager gnome-session gnome-session-canberra gnome-system-monitor gnome-system-tools gnome-terminal gnome-themes-selected gnome-themes-ubuntu gnome-utils gstreamer0.10-alsa gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-a
<alkisg> ...I'm sure that didn't fit here
<alkisg> You're telling them to remove 50 packages from synaptic?
<tbruff13> i thought removing kubuntu-desktop would remove only the desktop and no dependencies
<alkisg> Try reading the link I pasted
<tbruff13> alkisg: what i am trying to do is give them a choice
<tbruff13> i did read it
<alkisg> Didn't you see the big command line there?
<tbruff13> yeah i did
<alkisg> Also, how are you planning to create the live cd?
<tbruff13> i just thought that if they just removed the package kubuntu-desktop
<tbruff13> with a program called aptoncd
<alkisg> I don't think aptoncd creates live cds
<alkisg> It just puts packages in CDs
<tbruff13> alkisg: i am still working on this
<tbruff13> I need a program that creates live CDs i am going to try aptoncd
<alkisg> Well... you didn't select a correct way to try all this, but you do sound ethousiastic about it. Good luck.
<tbruff13> alkisg: well im sorry
<tbruff13> im doing what i can
<alkisg> Yup. Go for it.
<tbruff13> alkisg: if it doesn't work i fail my senior year in high school
<alkisg> Why, is it a project?
<tbruff13> alkisg: it is my senior project
<tbruff13> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_Project
<alkisg> Gotcha... you might want to search something else than aptoncd though, it doesn't do what you want.
<tbruff13> alkisg: will http://www.geekconnection.org/remastersys/ubuntu.html work
<alkisg> Remastersys is more close to what you're looking for, yes, it might work for you
<tbruff13> alkisg: what about including both kubuntu and Gnome
<tbruff13> and then making them both removeable
<tbruff13> the issue is teacher want to be able to remove KDE with out removing KDE based programs like kmplot from Gnome
<alkisg> tbruff13: I think your first question to yourself should be, "what am I trying to offer my users, that they can't already get from the existing live CDs"?
<stgraber> tbruff13, alkisg: remastersys may do what you want, though the now recommended way of doing it is with ubuntu-defaults-image which is an official tool introduced in 11.10 that's used to build some of the official "custom" images like the Chinese remix
<stgraber> though don't ask me about it, I never used it other than being in the session where its specifications have been discussed :)
<alkisg> Hehe... /me will have a look in it, for 12.04 :)
<tbruff13> alkisg: I am trying to offer a customized system with less bloat that is made for high school level
<stgraber> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/oneiric/man1/ubuntu-defaults-image.1.html seems to be the closest thing to documentation I could find about it
<alkisg> Less bloat == many desktop environments?
<alkisg> And, how do you define "bloat"? What would you remove?
<tbruff13> alkisg: i know but when i say less bloat i mean removing useless preschool packages
<tbruff13> and adding things to make the switch easier
<tbruff13> like ubuntu restricted extras
<tbruff13> by default
<tbruff13> stgraber: can i get it to work on 10.04
<stgraber> tbruff13: maybe, I know it doesn't exist in 10.04 but that doesn't mean you can't get it to run on it. As I said, I never used it myself ;)
<alkisg> You don't have permission to distribute some of those -extras though, would your teacher agree in illegal distribution?
<stgraber> tbruff13: also, be careful about the legality of what you're doing, there's a good reason why we don't include ubuntu-restricted-extras by defualt
<stgraber> *default
<tbruff13> alkisg: i have handled the legal issues
<tbruff13> with the companies
<tbruff13> through emails and phone calls
<tbruff13> all things installed in the package ubuntu-restricted-extras I can use as long as a present a copy of the EULA with the disc and I will
<alkisg> I would find it more useful to install a system with all available DEs somewhere in the school, to offer anyone the ability to login via e.g. x2go (even from windows PCs), and when they find the desktop environment they like, they can just get/use its normal live CD.
<tbruff13> alkisg: i thing what i am going to do is not include KDE, but put it in the notes on my project
<tbruff13> and give instructions on how to get it
<tbruff13> alkisg: can you give me instructions on how to do things your way
<alkisg> tbruff13: my way is not to create a live cd :)
<alkisg> I'm using a global repository for my schools, and package my "solutions" there
<alkisg> But I may try that ubuntu-defaults-image in 12.04...
<tbruff13> alkisg: it is to late to not create a live cd
<tbruff13> It is already in my project paper that i will do so
<alkisg> Read that page: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/oneiric/man1/ubuntu-defaults-template.1.html
<alkisg> Packages, default applications, bookmarks, it's a long list
<alkisg> You can probably use that.
<tbruff13> alkisg: if i can figure out how
<tbruff13> my mentor can help me do this
<alkisg> This might help too (about the same method): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Oneiric/LocalizedCDImageTools
<tbruff13> thanks
<tbruff13> alkisg: is there anyway i can have teachers try kde over the internet like they can with edubuntu like weblive
<tbruff13> alkisg: are you there
<alkisg> tbruff13: yes, that's what I said above with x2go and nx
<tbruff13> alkisg: okay let me check it out
<tbruff13> alkisg: i have no server to work with
<alkisg> That would be a problem. Any ordinary pc would do, ask your teacher/mentor if he can provide you with one.
<tbruff13> hey alkisg could i run this in an Ubuntu Advantage cloud server
<alkisg> No idea. Anyway, time to go. Good luck.
<tbruff13> my school is going to buy Ubuntu Advantage
<tbruff13> bye
#edubuntu 2012-12-03
<subthalamus> I just installed edubuntu from DVD onto old T30 stinkpad
<subthalamus> I knew I should have checked the box for gnome during install
<subthalamus> unity doesn't load, u just login to a blank wallpaper
<subthalamus> should I bother with trying to find a different video driver or is unity not customized for edubuntu? (in which case I hate it)
<subthalamus> can I avoid rerunning the entire install?
<subthalamus> to get gnome?
<alkisg> sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback
<alkisg> And select it from the lightdm menu
<subthalamus> alkisg: thanks
<subthalamus> could u offer some advice on the other questions?
<alkisg> About video driver? Which graphics card does it have?
<subthalamus> sorry for delay, tending to a bunch of kids at the same time :(
<subthalamus>  RV200 [Mobility Radeon 7500]
<subthalamus> alkisg
<subthalamus> alkisg: just fyi, PEBCAK error, gnome-session-fallback was already installed so I just logged in with that...
<alkisg> Cool, sorry for the delay, tending to a bunch of kids + a bunch of dogs :D
#edubuntu 2012-12-04
<stanobux> I have searched and I have a noob question:
<stanobux> Sorry, nevermind!
<highvoltage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1086483
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1086483 in Ubuntu "LTSP Live system fails to start" [Undecided,New]
<highvoltage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-live/+bug/1086498
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1086498 in edubuntu-live (Ubuntu) "[r-alpha-1] Edubuntu default session is "10"" [Undecided,New]
<highvoltage> those seem to be the biggest bugs affecting alpha 1
<highvoltage> stgraber: if you have some time at some point for proof-reading... http://edubuntu.org/2012-12-06/edubuntu-13.04-alpha1
<stgraber> highvoltage: are you planning on fixing those? if not, you probably should re-target them to something other than -alpha1 and assign them to me
<stgraber> I'll take a look at the announcement a bit later today
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah yes, good point, I was distracted and screwed up :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: so I have some form of release notes ready on the site and we have an iso that's tested with documented known issues, what else is necessary for the alpha?
<stgraber> highvoltage: you'll probably want an URL that doesn't include the date (similar to those we use for release)
<stgraber> highvoltage: besides that, I'll probably poke you with the link to the etherpad tomorrow so you can write a couple of lines for the announcement
<highvoltage> ok
#edubuntu 2012-12-06
<highvoltage> http://edubuntu.org/news/13.04-alpha1
<micahg> stgraber: have you considered trying an alternate DE for LTSP?
<stgraber> micahg: yeah, since 12.10 we use gnome-fallback by default for it. highvoltage wanted (may still want) to go with lxde but I don't really like the idea of shipping 2 completely different DE
 * micahg was going to suggest Xfce :)
<stgraber> so the current plan is to see what happens by 14.04, if they don't somehow get compiz and unity to deal with GL indirect rendering, we'll most likely switch to fat clients my default
<stgraber> which won't have any of those problems as the DE will run on the client
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm going to toy around with it, but not going to do anything in raring. I think it's better at this stage to see what happens with unity and gnome (including gnome legacy, etc)
<highvoltage> (yeah, "snap", basically)
<highvoltage> unity's usability is *horrible*
<highvoltage> but I think it's better to make some lenses and try to fix it rather than switch DE
<micahg> highvoltage: gnome legacy upstream is gone with 3.8 (which we probably won't see in Ubuntu until 13.10)
<highvoltage> micahg: you seem to be confused
<highvoltage> micahg: gnome fallback is going away with 3.8
<highvoltage> micahg: gnome legacy is coming in 3.8
<micahg> hrm, I thought upstream gave up on anything like that
<stgraber> gnome legacy is a gnome shell based UI that looks like gnome 2
<micahg> interesting
<stgraber> where gnome fallback was the gnome 2 components mixed with gnome 3
<highvoltage> micahg: http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2012/12/05/gnome-3-7-what-is-happening-now/
 * micahg must have missed that communique
<highvoltage> I'm pretty much using gnome 3 right now with a bunch of plugins that make it more gnome-2 like.
<highvoltage> but gnome has lots of problems with plugins at the moment
<highvoltage> whatever version of gnome you're running there's a significant number of plugins that aren't compatible with it
<stgraber> sounds like firefox ;)
<highvoltage> pretty much.
<highvoltage> except that firefox work farely well without any plugins
<highvoltage> *works
* You're now known as ubuntulog
#edubuntu 2013-12-03
<phaidros> hi, how to go from stock 12.4.3 to edubuntu? I believe it is just sources.list .. or is it just installing the edubuntu metapackages?
<highvoltage> phaidros: you can keep your sources.list as is, look for the edubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-edu meta-packages in software center
<phaidros> highvoltage: thanks!
<phaidros> highvoltage: how much "better" ist 13.10 compared to LTS? (in stable envs I usually go for LTS or Debian stable, on my own Desktop I alwas use bleding edge, so what is good for a kids' desktop then .. ?! :)
<highvoltage> phaidros: I'd recommend Ubuntu/Edubuntu LTS or Debian Stable as well for sure
<highvoltage> phaidros: the newer versions don't really bring enough new features to make it worth while. most of the important software (web browser, libreoffice, etc) are available in updates anyway
<phaidros> highvoltage: ic. is there a security concept yet, as whilelisting websites / apps, a granular permission system?
<phaidros> .. speaking of a standalone system so far ..
<highvoltage> phaidros: it's one of the top requests on edubuntu, but not implemented yet
<highvoltage> phaidros: stgraber is working on a great AD-like solution on Edubuntu using Samba. the long-term plans is to have some kind of policy editor where those settings could be stored and propagated using that system
<phaidros> highvoltage: sounds difficult, I'd go for a mixture of apparmor, plus a mandatory webproxy for certain user accounts
<phaidros> for that proxy one can easily build whitelists with $webgui
<phaidros> even export and share those lists ..
<phaidros> this gets me thinking :)
#edubuntu 2013-12-04
<stgraber> highvoltage: edubuntu is building again, the issue was dpkg-divert from edubuntu-artwork
#edubuntu 2016-12-05
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.6.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.0.8-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.6.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.6.2-0ubuntu3~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.6.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.6.2-0ubuntu3~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2016-12-06
<moonhead> is this project still actively being developed?
<robb_nl> moonhead: sadly enough not. see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-March/039281.html
<moonhead> thanks robb_nl.  i was getting that feeling, but could not find evidence.
<robb_nl> technically it is supported untill april 2019...
<robb_nl> when ubuntu 14.04 LTS runs out of support
<robb_nl> I think you would be better off with skolelinux.... (or can't I say that in this channel?)
<moonhead> :)
<robb_nl> what are you looking for moonhead ?
<moonhead> right on.  thanks for the idea.  seems like most kid friendly projects are dead in the water.
<robb_nl> I know another school project that might be VERY interesting...
<robb_nl> linuxschools.com a server based on Ubuntu LTS + an Ubuntu client that preconfigures all services that the server offers
<moonhead> nothing specific, but was hoping to find something with recent kernel and drivers.  i have a chromebook that didn't seem to play nicely until  15.10.  and, honestly, i just don't feel like doing a whole bunch of work to make this thing reasonably useful for a4 year old.
<robb_nl> ah ok... just a client is what you need... :)
<moonhead> yeah
<robb_nl> I remembered a distro called doudou linux... but that is not being maintained either...
<moonhead> right
<moonhead> neither is sugar or qimo or most anything else i can find
<robb_nl> OpenSuSE has an EDU version of the client that is active
<mhall119> yeah, qimo has been retired :(
<mhall119> all the games are still in Ubuntu though
<mhall119> I should make a snap package of the wallpapers....
<robb_nl> yeah gcompris, childsplay and all the tux applications are great for kids...
<moonhead> thanks for the suggestions.  i'll check into the opensuse edu option
<robb_nl> btw, you mention sugar... you ever used an XO laptop?
<moonhead> no
<robb_nl> I had one when my kids were very young. they absolutely didn't need any explanation, even when they never touched a pc before...
<robb_nl> great OS....
<robb_nl> for kids.. ;)
<robb_nl> on standard hardware you can use it through sugar on a stick
<robb_nl> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick
<robb_nl> still actively developed!
#edubuntu 2016-12-09
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: cloud-initramfs-tools [amd64] (zesty-proposed/main) [0.33ubuntu1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-12-07
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.20-0ubuntu4~16.04.1 => 2.0.11-0ubuntu1~16.04.3] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.20-0ubuntu4~16.04.1 => 2.0.11-0ubuntu1~16.04.3] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.20-0ubuntu4~16.04.1 => 2.0.11-0ubuntu1~16.04.4] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2019-12-03
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [19.2-36-g059d049c-0ubuntu2~16.04.1 => 19.3-41-gc4735dd3-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [19.2-36-g059d049c-0ubuntu2~18.04.1 => 19.3-41-gc4735dd3-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (disco-proposed/main) [19.2-36-g059d049c-0ubuntu2~19.04.1 => 19.3-41-gc4735dd3-0ubuntu1~19.04.1] (core, edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (eoan-proposed/main) [19.2-36-g059d049c-0ubuntu3 => 19.3-41-gc4735dd3-0ubuntu1~19.10.1] (core, edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud)
