#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-16
* Nafallo have troubles choosing the langue to talk in ;-)
<Nafallo> and now I forgot what it was that I was about to say.
<Nafallo> does coffeinepills do this to me?
<tseng> ogra: gtk-sharp is in dep-wait since i broke mono the other day
<ogra> ah, darn
<tseng> ogra: it had the arch-ind. bits that couldnt install the arch bits, see
<tseng> they want to match
<ogra> jep
<tseng> do you want to review my gst-plugins-multiverse?
<ogra> url ?
<tseng> need to upload
<Nafallo> ogra: can you reproduce the bug that when you change tab in xchat gnome's tabs change sizes?
<tseng> actualy it still needs some more work maybe :/
<tseng> it works, but its not very clean looking
<tseng> ill get you tommorow
<ogra> ok
<ogra> Nafallo, i dont use xchat-gnome here...
<ogra> just the normal one
<Nafallo> ogra: ehm, the one installed by ubuntu-desktop?
<ogra> yep
<Nafallo> that's the one I'm using...
<Nafallo> X-Chat 2.4.1
<ogra> yep
<ivoks> 'night
<ogra> night ivoks
<ivoks> or bye... whatever u preffere :)
<Nafallo> ogra: so... can you reproduce? :-)
<ogra> Nafallo, but my tabs are fine
<Nafallo> ivoks: bye :-)
<Nafallo> hmm, odd
<Nafallo> hmm, I should upload screenshots ;-)
<Nafallo> ogra: http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/tmp
<Nafallo> the freenode one compared to the others should show what I mean :-P
<ogra> hmm, i see no difference...
<Nafallo> ogra: no? motu and devel compared to freenode?
<Nafallo> motu and devel differs to, not tu much though...
<Nafallo> s/tu/to/
<ogra> sure, they are as big as needed, but there is no difference in size between these shots...
<Nafallo> ogra: on the gnome windowlist...
<ogra> ahh
<Nafallo> ogra: those tabs change sizes when I switch channel in xchat :-P
<ogra> i thought you mean the chat window
<ogra> this is caused by the different size of the channel names
<ogra> its no bug
<Nafallo> ogra: no? so the gnome windowlist should do that? :-P
<ogra> yep
<Nafallo> it's bloody irritating ;-)
<ogra> look at the tooltip
<Nafallo> aha
* Nafallo still get's annoyed ;-)
<Nafallo> does that happen on i386?
<Nafallo> anyway... time for some sleep :-)
<Nafallo> see ya
<ajmitch_> morning
<HostingGeek> LOL
<HostingGeek> look at microsoft.com's whois
<tritium> crimsun, I bought my wife an iMac G5
<crimsun> tritium: how's Tiger?
<tritium> crimsun, it's still on order
<crimsun> ah, ok
<tritium> I'll probably get myself a dual G5 desktop when they come out with the dual-core 970MPs
<crimsun> nice
<tritium> :)
<thully> hi - has anyone looked into fixing netapplet from Hoary's universe?  current versions have many less bugs...
<crimsun> as soon as it's more clear what hoary-updates is for (and whether bug fixes can be sent there), there will be a more definitive answer
<tseng> hi crimsun
<crimsun> ev'ning tseng
<tritium> hi tseng
<tseng> thully: hey dude, are you at all interested in reading up on package-fu and contributing?
<thully> It would be need if updates which required a new upstream version (as in - bug fix updates) could be uploaded to -updates...
<thully> Not major upstream version updates, but 0.99 to 1.00 or 2.12 to 2.13 type updates
<tseng> id rather get the fix as a diff
<tseng> and only for serious bugs
<tseng> frozen distros are good, believe it or not
<thully> I mean mostly universe stuff - having netapplet stuck at 0.99 and crashing every time a user logs out doesn't seem like a Good Thing to me
<tseng> well if you want to volunteer to solve crashers in hoary universe into hoary-updates
<tseng> that would be awesome
<tseng> if you are just going to come in here and keep telling us what we should be doing with our seriously limited man power, ill keep being an ass
<tseng> :D
<tseng> ogra: mono stuff working well on amd now?
<tritium> tseng: partly my fault for asking him if he'd notified anyone here about the problem he's experiencing
<tseng> tritium: not your fault, he has alot of good ideas of things to do, but seemingly the expectation that someone else will do it.
<thully> sorry - I'm just still at a point where I want to be a user, and suggest changes and point out bugs, but I'm not ready to actually submit patches and maintain packages
<tseng> i am working on gst-plugins btw
<tseng> i came into some aac files myself and its bugging me
<tritium> thully: you seem capable, in my opinion.  I'll be you could sit down with the New Maintainer's Guide, and learn how to package
<tseng> the NMG is pretty crackful
<tseng> im planning something more bitesized
<tritium> That would be outstanding, tseng
<thully> there are several reasons for this - first of all, I had a severe time crunch a few months ago when I barely had enough time to report bugs, let alone contribute patches...
<thully> secondly, I don't have a stable, reliable internet connection all the time
<tritium> thully: we're all experiencing similar time crunches.  I, for example, and preparing to defend my PhD thesis in 10 weeks.
<crimsun> tseng: speaking of gst and aacs, I was investigating a method of using wavenc to dump to stdout so I could listen to my aacs remotely (ices2+icecast2), but I decided on using faad -w -f 2 (dumps to stdout)
<tseng> hm
<tseng> well there is a gst plugin i just packaged
<crimsun> the gstreamer0.8-faad?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> the source will be gst-plugins-multiverse0.8
<thully> yikes - I can't imagine doing something like that and maintaining packages at the same time
<tseng> with gstreamer0.8-faad and gstreamer0.8-faac so far
<tseng> thully: like what?
<tseng> oh phd
<crimsun> ah, I'm using the one from debian-marilliat. gstreamer0.8-plugins-multiverse sounds intriguing.
<tseng> oh from marillat?
<tseng> eh its probably crack anyway
<tseng> i want to do it cleanly
<crimsun> yeah, but I'm not on amd64, so I don't know if there's one available for amd64
<tritium> thully: I'm not really maintaining any right now, to be honest
<tseng> gst-plugins0.8 has a simple method for building extra plugin binaries
<tseng> but i want to do it properly in multiverse
<thully> well - sorry about this - I just feel that I'm not ready to take on packages at this time - although I like editing wikis and sending suggestions
<crimsun> sure, any contribution is appreciated
<thully> I guess I wasn't quite ready to "do-it-yourself" when it comes to packaging - I'm used to commercial-style betas where you test and report the bugs and others fix them
<tseng> yeah dude universe is not the place for all that
<tseng> i uploaded 12 packages this week it looks like, i get tired of it you know
<tseng> only a few guys here working hard, a few machines
<thully> OK - I guess I shouldn
<tseng> and he-man dholbach
<tritium> tseng: sorry...
<tseng> tritium: for?
<tritium> tseng: not being one of the few guys working hard right now.  I can't really afford to for a while
<tseng> thats fine
<tseng> we have 4 months now to do our thing
<Burgundavia> tseng, I have also been beating my head against a wall about a few issues with packaging. I would love to assist in the cleanup of this doc and maintenance, etc.
<tritium> crimsun, is the semester over for you now?
<crimsun> tritium: yes, finally. Graduation was this morning at 8:30 AM.
<tritium> crimsun, nice :)
<tseng> Burgundavia: rock on
<Burgundavia> tseng, when you have something you can work with, give it over to the doc guys and we will integrate into our svn stuff.
<tseng> Burgundavia: already met the doc guys
<tseng> and girl
<tseng> jerome and mary were at my BOF
<tseng> we'll be starting on the wiki and will decided from there about docbook or whatnot
<tseng> cool?
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> I just prodded about getting our portal up soon
<tseng> portal eh
<Burgundavia> web <--> svn/docbook
* Amaranth goes to bed
<herve> hi
<ogra> tseng, blam crashes after some time (havent debugged yet), muine (with handcompiled gkt-sharp2-unstable) and tomboy work fine, beagle crashes too (i blame my package until yours is available) and f-spot doesnt compile
<herve> it crashes and say *blam* ?
<herve> :-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> unfortunately it crashes very silent :)
<ogra> me edits /usr/bin/blam
<ogra> hmm, --debug doest give more info....
<ogra> doesnt even
<ogra> ah, -v
<tfheen> morning, ogra.
<ogra> morning
* ogra wonders if there is intention in the similarity between the names "mono" and "lego" ... while watching the debug output of blam...
<Nafallo> morning all
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> bzflag
<Nafallo> hehe
<ivoks> wrong term :)
<ivoks> wesnoth is turn-based too
<ivoks> man... again :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<tseng> ogra: f-spot from cvs compiles and runs nicely here.
<tseng> ogra: ill try to push a release
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> tried to compile mondevelop today, but there is a lot breakage in the source (current package) it seems....
<ogra> oh, and beagle 0.0.9 wants libebook-1.2.so.0, which doesnt exist.... (we have libebook-1.2.so.3)
<tseng> oh it does?
<ogra> yep
<tseng> I probably have a symlink from the -dev package or something
<tseng> libebook-1.2.so        libebook-1.2.so.3      libebook-1.2.so.3.1.1
<ogra> i did that too.... one crasher less :) but t still breaks
<tseng> we can remap it
<ogra> it explicitly looks for libebook-1.2.so.0
<tseng> thats fine
<tseng> look at /etc/mono/config
<tseng> you can take whatever it tries to DllMap in the code in the first part
<ogra> ah, great
<tseng> and remap it to the actual file under /usr/lib in the target
<tseng> we can do that per binary
<tseng> so it would be BeagleDaemon.exe.config with the same format
<tseng> in /usr/lib/beagle or wherever the .exe is
<tseng> worth a shot
<ogra> yeah, sounds good
<tseng> we do that as a stop gap and get upstream to fix it at the autotools stage
<tseng> it was a major problem with f-spot awhile back
<tseng> which reminds me, i need to push lewing to make a release for us :)
<ogra> heh
<tseng> so, are you enjoying muine?
<ogra> yep, absolutely...
<tseng> :)
<ogra> tomboy as well
<ogra> only blam is nasty to me
<tseng> :(
<tseng> i wonder why that is
<ogra> might be gtk...
<tseng> or gecko
<ogra> GLib-ERROR **: gmem.c:141: failed to allocate 4294934712 bytes
<ogra> aborting...
<ogra> Xlib: unexpected async reply (sequence 0x436)!
<tseng> mm glib
<tseng> oh i need a gecko2 release also
<ogra> but that might be caused by my selfcompiled stuff here... lets wait until lamont triggered gtk-sharp....
<tseng> I thought you triggered it yesterday?
<tseng> with another upload
<ogra> if there is an older version blocking in dep-wait, the new one doesnt get build until somone triggered tha old one manually...
<tseng> oh thats right
<ogra> so we have two versions in dep-wait now :-/
<tseng> heh
<ogra> (i wss to fast)
<tseng> the mono team rocks, we have good relationship with all the upstreams
<tseng> and debian
<ogra> great
<tseng> ogra: i found your old job!
<tseng> ogra: http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2005050209268.jpg
<tseng> btw im really getting excited about hct
<tseng> merging by hand is getting old
<thom> yup yup
<ogra> heh
* ogra cries about xscreensaver while thinking about mergng
<tseng> especially from svn.debian.org
<HiddenWolf> Does anyone here use rhythmbox?
<tseng> rarely
* ogra just stopped since amd64 gets mono love
<HiddenWolf> sorry for asking here, but mine is behaving weirdly, and I'd like to figure out if it's a bug.
<HiddenWolf> #ubuntu doesn't seem interested in helping me.
<HiddenWolf> and -devel is dead. :P
<ogra> its weekend
<HiddenWolf> You're kiddin' me ;)
<ogra> just a bit
* HiddenWolf smiles
<tseng> oh yeah my -multiverse package to finish
<HiddenWolf> I'm just loading bugzilla with rhythmbox bugs, for the heck of it. :P *grins*
<tseng> ogra: http://tseng2.ath.cx/~brandon/gst-plugins/
<tseng> there is a little bit left from gst-plugins0.8
<tseng> that doesnt affect the final result in our case, i left it in rules for now
<tseng> that should let you use aac in rhythmbox, muine needs more work
<tseng> because it doesnt use gst for reading the tags (yet)
<ogra> i'll look at it
<ivoks> hi
<tseng> oh jeez i forgot lame
<tseng> we can add that here
<Amaranth> what's the page to request things for universe?
<tseng> UniverseCandidates
<Amaranth> thanks
* Amaranth spent an hour trying to get sonance figured out last night
<Amaranth> figure i'll see if someone else knows how and can do it for me :)
<tseng> is that mono iirc?
<Amaranth> yeah
<tseng> autotools?
<Amaranth> oh, UniverseCandidates is for things that were already packaged
* Amaranth can't remember what was failing now
<Amaranth> i know i got an autoconf error about PKG_INFO
<Amaranth> and iirc gst-sharp in CVS was hosed
<tseng> oh thats right
<tseng> I'm going to have to defer you on that then
* Amaranth will patiently use muine
<tseng> I have no interest in distributing gst-sharp from CVS at present
<tseng> do ping me if they make a sane release
<Amaranth> well, wouldn't that be like gtk-sharp-unstable?
<tseng> not at all
<tseng> gtk-sharp-unstable at least has releases
<tseng> and people can target compat with each release
<tseng> which are a few weeks/months apart
<tseng> vs hoping your cvs checkout for the day works
<tseng> we could probably fetch a working combo for this one app
<tseng> its just dirty, i want a tarball with a version string
<Amaranth> hmm
<Amaranth> i thought muine used gstreamer
<tseng> it does
<tseng> it has its own bindings
<Amaranth> ...
<tseng> via libmuine
<tseng> muine has been around alot longer than gst-sharp
<Amaranth> really weird thing about gst-sharp was i pulled from the same day someone claims to have built sonance on hoary and got the same errors
<tseng> how is that weird?
<Amaranth> well, it worked for them
<tseng> oh, thats not what you said
<Amaranth> yeah, that sentence sucked
<Amaranth> macewan claims to have gotten gst-sharp and sonance to work on hoary so i pulled from the day he posted the blog entry and got the same errors as pulling from today
<Amaranth> o_O I don't think gst-sharp is going to get released any time soon. It appears to be a dead project
<tseng> eh.
<Amaranth> or, you know, i'm use cvs and they've moved everything to svn
<tseng> good one
<tseng> hm so tamara is working on it
<tseng> i wonder where her muine branch is
<tseng> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryBeagleInstallHowto
<tseng> oh jeez
<tseng> this is horrible
<Amaranth> kill it with the flaming sword of pissed off ;)
<tseng> i should
<tseng> they are still telling you to use external repos for stuff thats in hoary since months
<tseng> and it was edited 30 minutes ago
<Amaranth> what's the name of the package for GTK# 1.99.x?
<Amaranth> nevermind
<tseng> lib*2.0-cil
* Amaranth stabs random things
<Amaranth> appearently pkg-config says i don't have gtk#
<herve> see you later
* thom drops to his knees and worships grep-dctrl
* grep-dctrl thanks thom for his trust in him
<tseng> do any of you motu guys jabber?
<tseng> oh man sonance has some awful stuff
<tseng> http://sonance.aaronbock.net/screenshots/0.4-teaser/sqlbuilder.png
<tseng> DBA ME HARDER
<thom> tseng: holy hells
<thom> (i'm thom@clearairturbulence.org on jabber)
<tseng> rock on.
<Amaranth> tseng: I think it stores the library data in an sqlite db
<thom> not sure i count as motu, but :-)
<tseng> Amaranth: thats cool, it just is soo heavy compared to muine or even rb
<Amaranth> well, you don't have to use that :P
<tseng> but it looks better than a previous screenshot
<tseng> http://sonance.aaronbock.net/screenshots/0.4-teaser/sonance-0.4-teaser.png
<tseng> less buttons than the 0.2 shots
<tseng> but why do I need a) 2 progress showing widgets on the Status window
<tseng> and a Hide button for one of them
<Amaranth> ?
<Amaranth> oh, the throbber
<tseng> ok there is a spinner
<tseng> and a progress bar
<Amaranth> whatever you guys call it
<Amaranth> hmm, that is odd
<tseng> both showing the same thing, essentially
<tseng> "im working"
<tseng> you can hide one
<tseng> eh.
<Amaranth> no, i think the hide button is to hide the status window
<tseng> oh, i dont like that either
<Amaranth> why?
<tseng> i dont see a way to get it back
<Amaranth> it lets you start working with music while it's working
<Amaranth> you don't know what happens when you hit hide
<tseng> anyway if it keeps getting less buttons instead of more, it might be pretty cool
<thom> i guess sonance is an equivalent to rb?
<tseng> it looks like he is trying to get even closer to itunes or something
<tseng> but similar to rb
<Amaranth> this is creeping me out
<Amaranth> i started muine and rhythmbox and muine started playing the same song, one 2 seconds behind the other
<tseng> heh
<tseng> btw if you manage to get this thing building, i can help you with packaging
<Amaranth> gst-sharp refuses to like me
<tseng> for the wiki or something
<Amaranth> wtf, muine doesn't have a menu entry or a notification icon anymore :/
<tseng> it has a menu entry
<tseng> the notification icon was moved to a plugin
* Amaranth kills gnome-panel
<Amaranth> ack
<Amaranth> and that plugin doesn't exist yet?
<tseng> sure it does
<tseng> http://muine.gooeylinux.org/plugins.shtml
<tseng> its in the source also
<tseng> under plugins/
<Amaranth> i meant in ubuntu
<tseng> im thinking about installing it by default
<ivoks> it has
<tseng> it has what?
<ivoks> menu entry
<tseng> i know :)
<Amaranth> yeah, i got it after i killed gnome-panel
<ivoks> Amaranth ;)
<Amaranth> now to get my notification icon back so muine isn't totally worthless :/
<ivoks> well, muine isn't much of a player
<ivoks> quodlibet is best out there
<tseng> QUODLIBET Online Journal of Christian Theology and Philosophy
<tseng> QUODLIBET Online Journal of Christian Theology and Philosophy: Main Page.
<tseng> sweet
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> sacredchao.net/quodlibet
<Amaranth> ooh, it's written in python
<tseng> found it
<ivoks> there is a package in breezy i think
<Amaranth> and it does tag editting!
<ivoks> and much more
<ivoks> it renames filenames by tags
<ivoks> or tags by filenames
<tseng> yeah this is too UI'd for me also
<Amaranth> UI needs serious work though
<ivoks> it can do mass tag change
<tseng> on the subject of bad uis, nothing beats easytag
<ivoks> man... reboot :(
<Amaranth> tseng: Got something better?
<tseng> easytag?
<Amaranth> better than easytag i meant
<tseng> i love it.
<Amaranth> i thought you were saying it sucked
<tseng> it does :D
<Amaranth> heh
<tseng> the ui makes me bleed myself
<Amaranth> btw, what's the configure option to enable the plugins?
<Amaranth> for muine
<tseng> you put them in ~/.gnome2/muine/plugins
<tseng> and restart
<Amaranth> ok
<Amaranth> so run make then copy them there?
<tseng> yes
<Amaranth> cool
<tseng> jeez its noon, i need a shower
<tseng> and lunch
<Amaranth> Damn, the mcs command for muine is 2 screens long
<tseng> weekends :)
<thom> does mono/.NET have an imap4 implementation? offlineimap just blew up for the last time
<tseng> hm dunno
<tseng> been using imap4r1 in evo, i think with offline
<Lathiat> i use that
<Lathiat> evo has a few issues i just deal with
<Lathiat> like vfolders
<Lathiat> i mark things read in vfolders and the new messsage count isnt updated
<Lathiat> and sometimes it is, but then when i hit send/recv
<Lathiat> they all go back to unread counts
<Lathiat> even tho the messages are actaully marked read
<tseng> oh man that bootchart for initng is nuts
<tseng> jeez
<tseng> 25 seconds to X
<ivoks> nice :)
<ivoks> did someone try that initng?
<tseng> thats what I just said I believe
<ivoks> sorry, wasn't here :)
<tseng> < tseng> oh man that bootchart for initng is nuts
<ivoks> i asked did someone try it?
<ivoks> not has anyone visited homepage :)
<tseng> buh ill spell it out
<tseng> someone posted to ubuntu-devel with a bootchart comparing init to initng
<tseng> he obviously tried it
<ivoks> ah...
<ivoks> i don't follow ubunut-devel
<ivoks> and boot chart u have on project homepage
<ivoks> http://jw.dyndns.org/initng/
<tseng> http://illadvised.com/~jason/bootchart-hoary-default.png
<tseng> http://illadvised.com/~jason/bootchart-hoary-initng.png
<ivoks> nice
<ivoks> ok, time for a deb :)
* ogra wonders how he manages to get hoary booting in eternal 57sec ... 
<ogra> i have no hoary system around that boots this slow
<Lathiat> 24 seconds? interesting.
<Lathiat> is initng hard to get going properly?
<tseng> it needs rewritten scripts
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> so you rewrote all the init scripts for your boot process/
<tseng> thom: is there a someone sane networkmanager i could be testing?
<zul> heh solaris http://www.livejournal.com/users/tytso/25923.html
<thom> tseng: not yet
<tseng> k.
<thom> tseng: daniels gets back to work on monday, so new utopia stack should be in soon, then i'll land NM 0.4 on breezy
<tseng> thom: my hero
<thom> (note the bootchart for initng is missing a tonne of stuff)
<thom> (at a quick glance, anyway)
<bur[n] er> is there a !seen bot?
<tseng> no.
<tseng> i have /lastlog
<Nafallo> ./whowas? :-)
<Lathiat> lastlog is king
<Lathiat> i wish irssi had a feature to jump up to the last time a word was highlighted
<Lathiat> so you can read context et al
<thom> that would be pretty rad
<thom> hrm, versioned symbols are way easier than i thought
<Lathiat> atm i have to page up page up page up.. :)
<tseng> oh totally
<tseng> someone do that :)
<Lathiat> reall sucks if your ssh session is lagged.
<thom> (now if only the apr-util test suite didn't take three months to run, life would be good)
<tfheen> thom: get a faster computer?
<tritium> good afternoon
<thom> tfheen: this is an amd64 3000+
<thom> not exactly slow ;-)
* Lathiat pets his pentium-m 2.0ghz
<Lathiat> guess its fairly top of the pentium-m line, i think my hard disk is what kills my performance
<Lathiat> 5400rpm is the suck
<tfheen> thom: are you running breezy on that box?
<Nafallo> Lathiat: is there faster rpm for laptops? :-)
<tfheen> Nafallo: you can get 7200 drives.
<thom> tfheen: yes
<Nafallo> tfheen: yay! that would probably make this one burn, it's hot enough already :-P.
<Lathiat> i'd love an 80gb 7200rpm drive
<tfheen> thom: do you have troubly with lsb-core being on utter crack and trying to overwrite /lib64?
<Lathiat> and another 512 of ram
<thom> tfheen: not that i've noticed
<tfheen> hm,
<ivoks> i have pm1.4 :(
<thom> tfheen: but that'd be because i don't have it installed...
<thom> (sorry, just checked)
<tfheen> thom: can you try to install it and see whether it blows up?
<thom> just installed fine
<tfheen> hmm
<tfheen> I guess asking you to purge base-files, then install lsb-core, then reinstall base-files is a bad idea. ;P
<thom> i'll pass, thanks
<thom> :P
<Nafallo> tfheen: I'll set up a chroot ;-)
<tfheen> Nafallo: if you could set up a hoary chroot, install lsb there and then check if it blows up on upgrading to breezy, that'd be nice.
<Nafallo> tfheen: oki :-)
<doko_> tfheen, Nafallo: I don't know, if I like my 7200 hard drive ... it's not that quiet.
<tfheen> doko_: obviously not; faster drive => more noise.
<Nafallo> doko: hehe, and the heat? ;-)
<Lathiat> yeh more heat
<doko> very cool
<tfheen> which is why Simira now has a 2.5" drive in her box.
<Nafallo> tfheen: sweet :-)
<Lathiat> but my hard drive spot on my laptop (under my left parm) doesnt get very warm even when being used alot
<Lathiat> so i dont think a 7.2krpm will burn my hand
<Nafallo> well, I should get a new laptop instead of upgrade this one anyway ;-)
<dholbach> hai
<ivoks> hi
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: hai!
<bur[n] er> ivoks: wifi-radar wasn't working for me
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> bur[n] er what is your wifi device?
<bur[n] er> using a centrino (Compaq X1000, so I assume it should work... that's what the developer uses)
<bur[n] er> ipw2100 driver
<ivoks> bur[n] er eth2?
<bur[n] er> possibly
<bur[n] er> er... no
<bur[n] er> eth1
<ivoks> then edit /etc/wifi-radar.conf
<bur[n] er> eth0 = lan eth1 = wireless
<bur[n] er> aww
<bur[n] er> i'll be back ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> drcode in many ways :)
<bur[n] er> ok... so I still have some issues
<bur[n] er> it has to be run as root?
<ivoks> nope
<bur[n] er> i get /etc/wifi-radar.conf write issues on trying to close
<ivoks> sudo vim /etc/wifi-radar.conf
<bur[n] er> Traceback (most recent call last):
<bur[n] er>   File "/usr/sbin/wifi-radar", line 576, in delete_event
<bur[n] er>     self.save_auto_profile_order()
<bur[n] er>   File "/usr/sbin/wifi-radar", line 822, in save_auto_profile_order
<bur[n] er>     confFile.write( open( CONF_FILE, 'w' ) )
<ivoks> you can't edit file in etc as user
<bur[n] er> IOError: [Errno 13]  Permission denied: '/etc/wifi-radar.conf'
<bur[n] er> i know
<bur[n] er> so maybe it's a wifi-radar issue and not a package issue
<ivoks> that's fs issue
<ivoks> not related to wifi-radar
<bur[n] er> well... it should prolly save it to ~/.config/wifi-radar or something
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> wifi-radar has to be run as root
<bur[n] er> instead of using a system-wide config file... so users can run the app
<ivoks> ?!
<ivoks> users?
<bur[n] er> yeah
<ivoks> that app brings interface
<ivoks> how could user use it?
<ivoks> it uses dhclient and ifconfig
<ivoks> users don't have permissons to use that
<bur[n] er> oh right
<ivoks> it's like /etc/network/interfaces
<ivoks> only root sets them
<bur[n] er> ivoks: shouldn't it also have a systray icon?
<ivoks> i don't think so
<ivoks> there is allready applet
<bur[n] er> i always thought it did... maybe i'm mistaken
<ivoks> no...
<ivoks> wifi radar doesn't run in background
<ivoks> it sets up connection and quits
<bur[n] er> true
<bur[n] er> i swear i saw the wifi-radar icon in the systray kinda like an apple
<ivoks> for traffic monitor u have network monitor applet
<ivoks> bur[n] er that's gnome's applet, not wifi-radar
<ivoks> apt-get install gnome-netstatus-applet
<bur[n] er> i have it
<bur[n] er> i use it
<bur[n] er> thought there was a more apple like applet for it
<Amaranth> eek, tomboy doesn't have tintin anymore
<ivoks> bur[n] er and... works?
<bur[n] er> it works
<bur[n] er> works well
<bur[n] er> thanks!
<ivoks> np
<ivoks> hope it will get in breezy :)
<ivoks> djm62 whatch out.. he will paste now :)
<ivoks> damn... missed terminal :)
<tseng> Amaranth: dude tintin blows (and is illegal)
<Amaranth> tseng: The new icon is worse. I couldn't even tell what it was. Until I clicked on it I thought I'd lost tomboy.
<tseng> how can it possibly be worse than tintin
<tseng> tintin was heinous
<Amaranth> it was a known icon and didn't look like someone shrank a desktop screenshot down to icon size
<tseng> send me a diff with the properly sized icon added also
<tseng> or its at the bottom of the list
<tseng> at least we're legal
<tseng> and can get the package in debian
<Amaranth> heh, the icon makes much more sense when it's full size
<Amaranth> at least now i know what it is
<tseng> yes
<tseng> jimmac made all sizes, i think we are only using 48
<tseng> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=tomboy
<tseng> if someone knows how to use the other sizes.. id be happy for a patch
<tseng> ogra: did that .exe.config help your beagld problems at all?
<Amaranth> tseng: /usr/share/icons/hicolor/24x24/apps/tomboy.png
<tseng> oh its that easy?
<Amaranth> not sure how it works in .NET but in PyGTK once you have that you can exploit the theme handling code
<Amaranth> you tell it you want 24 and it uses that icon
<tseng> ok ill put the icon there
<tseng> and see
<tseng> nope
<Amaranth> hmm
<tseng>                  static PreferencesDialog ()
<tseng>                  {
<tseng>  -                       tintin = new Gdk.Pixbuf (null, "tintin.png");
<tseng>  +                       tomboy = new Gdk.Pixbuf (null, "tomboy.png");
<tseng> the tray looks a bit different
<tseng>  +                       tomboy = GuiUtils.GetMiniIcon ("tomboy.png");
<tseng>  +                       tomboy_large = GuiUtils.GetIcon ("tomboy.png");
<tseng> applet only has one ref to the icon
<Amaranth> yeah, i don't know how the code under that works
<Amaranth> theme = gtk.icon_theme_get_for_screen(window.get_screen()); theme.load_icon('tomboy', 24, ())
<Amaranth> that's how i'd do it in pygtk
<Amaranth> well, pb = theme.load_icon
<tseng> yeah I dont know how to do it any better
<tseng> it only references one image
<Amaranth> heh, i can't get my code to show the 48x48 image
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> orwell.freenode.net
<Amaranth> oh, i put the 48x48 one in the wrong place
<tseng> tomboy.png is in /usr/share/pixmaps and not the icon theme btw
<tseng> if i move it will it be smart enough to find it again?
<Amaranth> ah, that's the problem then
<Amaranth> well, i don't know how Gdk.Pixbuf works
<Amaranth> does it work with the theme spec?
<tseng> beats me
<tseng> maybe andy can tell me
<tseng> he's not on
<Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/CQdcsr97.html and http://www.realistanew.com/tomboy.png
<Amaranth> now we just have to figure out how to translate that to gtk# :)
<tseng> ah rock on
<Amaranth> that's /usr/share/icons/hicolor/24x24/apps/tomboy.png and /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/tomboy.png
<tseng> I'll try lewing
<tseng> im sure he knows a thing or two about loading images in gtk# :)
<Amaranth> Gtk.IconTheme has not been implemented.
<Amaranth> d'oh
<tseng> there has to be something
<Amaranth> p/invoke? :)
<tseng> :'(
<Amaranth> Gtk.IconTheme is the 'right' way to do it, too
<Amaranth> I wonder if it's implemented in 1.9.x
<Amaranth> Assembly: gtk-sharp 2.0.0.0 (in gtk-sharp.dll) <--does that mean no?
<Amaranth> tseng: You could always just do /usr/share/pixmaps/tomboy.png and /usr/share/pixmaps/tomboy-24.png for now
<tseng> my hint is
<tseng> < alp> tseng: Settings.Default.IconSize.
<tseng> so im guessing we get the value of that
<tseng> < tberman> its Gnome.IconTheme.Lookup in gtk+ 2.4 and gtk# 1.9.3.x/1.0
<tseng> < tberman> yeah
<tseng> < tseng> so that will give me a string to the right image?
<tseng> rock on
<Amaranth> tseng: awesome!
<Amaranth> I guess it got moved into gtk in 2.6
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-17
<Unfrgiven> hey all
<ajmitch_> hi
* ajmitch_ will bbl
<diamond> lo folks
<tseng> hi.
<diamond> does anyone know what time the community council meeting is going to be at tomorrow? the wiki page ain't saying
<tseng> tommorow is the breezy kick off meeting
<tseng> at 19:00 utc
<tseng> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Calendar
<diamond> tseng: aye, saw that too
<tseng> cc is the 10th
<tseng> alledgedly
<diamond> well, today is the 9th here ,-)
<tseng> oh
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: tseng hey mate
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: how goes it
<tseng> hi Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> where is the meeting held?
<tseng>  #ubuntu-meeting
<Unfrgiven> how are things tseng?
<tseng> good thanks
<Unfrgiven> tseng: settled back into normal life?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> mostly
<Unfrgiven> good to hear
<Unfrgiven> i got back from new zealand last night... trying to settle in again myself
<Unfrgiven> i see you've been quite busy with mono packaging :)
<tseng> yes
<Unfrgiven> do you know whats going on with the mono debugger? i thought 1.1.7 would contain a release
<tseng> dunno really
<tseng> i dont do much development on mono yet, im in it for the cool apps
<Unfrgiven> yeah same... but i'd like to get involved with using it....
<tseng> im too busy doing php and expect at work
<Unfrgiven> you at work?
<tseng> no, its sunday
<tseng> but in general
<tseng> Im not in a hurry to learn more programming languages
<Unfrgiven> hehe... didnt realise :) its monday morning here
<Unfrgiven> i thought you were a c++ developer?
<tseng> hm no
<tseng> i only know C++ basics
<tseng> hrm breezy is going to rock so hard
<Unfrgiven> yeah... gcc4 is a PITA though
<tseng> nah
<tseng> g++ 4 will be
<Unfrgiven> ive got a package failing to build becuase of a kernel include failing to build... grrr
<tseng> with the new headers?
<tseng> we just got 2.6.11 or someat
<tseng> up from 2.5.99-pre4324
<Unfrgiven> i havent tried with the 2.6.11 headers yet
<Unfrgiven> when did that go in?
<tseng> hm a few days ago
<tseng> Subject: 	Accepted linux-kernel-headers 2.6.11.2-0ubuntu4 (source)
<tseng> Date: 	Wed,  4 May 2005 20:30:02 +0100 (BST)  (15:30 EDT)
<Unfrgiven> tseng: hmmm ill give that a whirl.
<tseng> just an idea
<Unfrgiven> its a good one. ill give it a shot when i get home from work.
<Unfrgiven> just out of interest. do you see any problems with having a breezy pbuilder environment on a debian sid box?
<tseng> nope
<tseng> ajmitch_ does that
* ajmitch_ did that - now it's a sid chroot on a breezy box
<ajmitch_> although X is taking huge amounts of RAM now, which really is annoying
<diamond> nite folks
<dholbach> morning
<schweeb> hi hi
<dholbach> hi schweeb!
<schweeb> wassup
<dholbach> i'm just waking up :-)
<schweeb> have we got an updated MOTUTodo for breezy yet?
<dholbach> nope
<schweeb> :(
<dholbach> i think we'll wait for the kickoff meeting later today
<schweeb> cool
<dholbach> we'll then hear the exact plan for UniverseCxxTransition
<dholbach> which will be a big target
<schweeb> been too busy to upgrade to breezy yet, so haven't really invested much time into looking for stuff to do
<schweeb> can't really goof around at the new job like I did at the old one
<dholbach> tomorow, i'll be in the CommunityCouncil meeting and make sure you all get approved for members
<schweeb> awesome
<dholbach> i can absolutely understand that - i hope you don't beat yourself up for it :-)
<dholbach> Malone now has a bunch of stuff :-)
<schweeb> hehe
<dholbach> so there's enough MOTUTodo ;-)
<schweeb> I miss my large, daily apt-get, so I need to go breezy now :)
<dholbach> MOTUToReview and MOTUNewPackages are quite full as well
<dholbach> breezy is particularly fine for me
<schweeb> yea
<schweeb> I figure it was a good idea to wait till a week or so after UdU
<schweeb> cause everyone would come back and destabilize everything cause they're all motivated
<dholbach> and we should spend time on team structures
<dholbach> ... creating ...
<schweeb> yes
<dholbach> so it will be easier for new interested people to get in and not just "fix packages" but do something they'd love to do
<schweeb> actually, it'd be nice to get the new laptop before I go breezy
<schweeb> this one is quickly turning into a hunk of junk
<dholbach> unfortunately i'll be very busy in the next weeks
<schweeb> thesis?
<dholbach> but i'll pop in every now and then
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> i'll "register" it later today, then i'll have 3 months to finish it
<schweeb> heh
<dholbach> still one exam left as well, but then i'm finished
<schweeb> I'm done with school for a while :)
* dholbach will add "review dholbach's code" and "fix dholbach's pathetic LaTeX markup" to MOTUTodo ;-)
<schweeb> lol
<dholbach> do you know why AaronLake is on CommunityCouncilAgenda?
<schweeb> hrm
<schweeb> lemme check
<schweeb> membership maybe?
<dholbach> he's already a MOTU and should be in the keyring as well
<schweeb> right
<dholbach> so i don't get, what he's doing there
<schweeb> MOTU should imply membership, right
<dholbach> nope
<dholbach> membership (by CC) first, then MOTU approval
<schweeb> I'll ask him tomorrow
<schweeb> (I work with him)
<dholbach> and if the key is good, it should go into keyring
<dholbach> cool
<schweeb> it was probably whiprush's doing
<schweeb> what time is the CC meeting?
<dholbach> i dunno yet :-(((((
<schweeb> nice.
<dholbach> i asked mako like 10 times
<schweeb> yea, once I get membership, then I can blog about it, and get all fired up again :P
<dholbach> haha! ROCK!
<dholbach> even more Ubuntu cheerleading! :-)
<schweeb> kinda hard not to Ubuntu cheerlead when whip's around
<dholbach> absolutely
<schweeb> he's like a big, cuddly, Ubuntu/Linux/GNOME cheerleader
<dholbach> i hope i'll meet all of you soon :-)
<schweeb> come to Detroit ;)
<whiprush> I am not cuddly
<dholbach> hey whiprush!
<whiprush> hey dholbach
<dholbach> whiprush: you ROCK!
<whiprush> hey did you get sick after udu?
<dholbach> no, i didnt
<whiprush> man
<whiprush> lucky
<dholbach> you're alive again?
<whiprush> yeah
<schweeb> he's done nothing but sleep for a week
<dholbach> what happened to you?
<schweeb> it truly is his superpower
<whiprush> got sick
<whiprush> been messed up all week
<dholbach> :-/
<whiprush> I think I'm ok now
<dholbach> so you're ready for  wiki/MOTUGNOME  now? ;-)
<whiprush> well, not now
<whiprush> in the morning I will
<whiprush> :)
<dholbach> don't worry
<whiprush> whew
<whiprush> I was worried that page would be huge
<dholbach> but it will be nice, once we can decide on bigger matters within a team and make things happen
<dholbach> and not just fix random packages
* whiprush nods
<dholbach> you said it "sky will be the limit" :-)
<whiprush> heh
<whiprush> man
<whiprush> universecandidates keeps getting bigger
<dholbach> yes, and i guess it's a good time to start new packaging
<dholbach> we're not in millions of transitions yet
<schweeb> whiprush: why is kop on the CC agenda?
<dholbach> and over the next months those packages have enough time stabilize until release
<dholbach> i think, i'll dedicate a day to just review packages
<dholbach> so we make a bit of progress
<whiprush> he added himself iirc
<schweeb> that'd be a good idea for a team... a few MOTUs who are dedicated to reviewing
<whiprush> I just read up
<whiprush> I told him, didn't know that motu meant membership
<schweeb> he should already have it
<dholbach> whiprush: i think he was approved by the CC already
<whiprush> well he wasn't on the list of members
<whiprush> k
<whiprush> we should take him off then?
<dholbach> i'll clarify with elmo, but i think he's already in the keyring
<schweeb> he's already uploading
<schweeb> afaik
<dholbach> UbuntuMembers is WAY incomplete
<schweeb> so, he's gotta be on it
<whiprush> ah ok
<dholbach> schweeb: i wouldn't like to be dedicated reviewer guy :-)
<schweeb> heh
<dholbach> i think it's good if everybody just has a look every now and then
<schweeb> not necessarily dedicated, but a list of people who are willing to review that people can look at and go to
<dholbach> when we are more MOTUs, it will be no problem any more
<schweeb> yea
<dholbach> i will write a mail to ubuntu-devel@ and ask the  main  guys to help out a bit
<whiprush> hmm
* schweeb chuckles at a thread he sees in u-d
<whiprush> dude that jdong backport guy lives in our state schweeb
<dholbach> schweeb: whish one?
<schweeb> "Evolution becoming unusable"
* dholbach neglected it
<Burgundavia> I met jdongson at LFNW
<Burgundavia> he is the other backport guy
<dholbach> schweeb, whiprush: i never saw a single upload from metallikop
<whiprush> to main?
<whiprush> I don't think he has
<crimsun> he can't up to main
<schweeb> not to main
<dholbach> (apart from the ones the MOTUs did)
<dholbach> hey crimsun, hey Burgundavia :-)
<crimsun> lo daniel :)
<Burgundavia> salut dholbach
<Burgundavia> seems sane
<Burgundavia> we talked about MOTUgames (which I have been neglecting)
<dholbach> crimsun: you already have a xfce team in malone?
<crimsun> dholbach: not yet, just on the wiki
<crimsun> gah, too many passwds
<dholbach> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/<yourlogin>/+newteam
<dholbach> i made one for the gnome team
<crimsun> thanks!
<Burgundavia> ogra, you around?
<dholbach> Burgundavia: it's still 06:40, so i suspect he's still asleep
<dholbach> :-)
<Burgundavia> ah
* Burgundavia has no idea where ogra is in the world
<schweeb> you people sleep? :p
<dholbach> Burgundavia: germany
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> is quarter to 10 here
<Burgundavia> pm
<dholbach> sent the reviewing mail
<crimsun> ok, MOTUXfce created on malone.
<dholbach> how is the ID of that account?
<crimsun> /people/motuxfce
<schweeb> night guys
<dholbach> HA, assigned you guys a bug ;-)
<dholbach> sleep tight, schweeb
<dholbach> crimsun: #584
<crimsun> thanks
<dholbach> unfortunately   https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/assigned?name=<ID>  seems broken atm :-/
<dholbach> i'll add it to  MaloneUniverseWishList
<crimsun> hmm
<dholbach> we'll have a meeting with the malone guys presumably next week
<Burgundavia> I am probably going to be signing the NDA to help with malone next week
<Burgundavia> just fyi
<dholbach> nda?
<Burgundavia> non-disclosure agreement
<Burgundavia> so I can see all the bugs, and join the mailing list, etc.
<Burgundavia> provided the canonical devs accept me
<dholbach> oh cool, you got in touch with them?
<Burgundavia> yes, I was beating my head against a wall about malone
<Burgundavia> and I asked about a list of malone bugs
<Burgundavia> so I could file them without filing dups
<dholbach> MaloneUniverseWishList is growing :-)
<Burgundavia> and one thing led to another, and that was best solution that we could come up with
<\sh> morning
<ivoks> morning
<ajmitch_> hi all
<ivoks> anyone interested in porting initng to ubuntu/debian?
<dholbach> hey \sh, ivoks, ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> daniel! :)
<ivoks> dholbach
<ajmitch_> looks like I have to kill X, up to 600MB mem usage already
<ajmitch_> something seriously wrong with it, I think :)
<ivoks> shad0w1e upgrade to ext3 is without loosing data, upgrade to other filesystems needs formating partition
<ivoks> damn
<\sh> looks like that I have enough work for the ubuntu week ;)
<dholbach> \sh: did you read the backlog?
<\sh> dholbach: no..
<\sh> dholbach: brief me shortly :)
<dholbach> ah ok, we talked about the MOTU work since 05:57 :-)
<\sh> dholbach: oh...at this time i was sleeping ;)
<\sh> dholbach: i read your "cry for help" on -devel ML ;)
<ajmitch_> dholbach: basically waiting for the kickoff meeting & the c++ transition?
<dholbach> yeah, plus review action and team forming
<ajmitch_> and setting up teams..
<ajmitch_> yeah, I need to get onto reviewing as well
<\sh> dholbach: but pyqt maintainer didn't release any new release, so  I have to prepare my patchset
<dholbach> \sh: go ahead... i'll do a review day at the end of the week
<\sh> I'm sick and tired of those upstream maintainers
<\sh> dholbach: thx...there is enough in my list :)
<dholbach> \sh: try to relax... they're humans as well
<ajmitch_> dholbach: what do you think of having a MOTU review day where a group of us will get together & review?
<ajmitch_> think it's possible?
<crimsun> sure, if there's a set day and time
<\sh> dholbach: sure they are...but pyqt is maintained on a commercial basis ;)
<ivoks> bastrds :)
<dholbach> ajmitch_, crimsun: i think it would be even better if we had different review days :-)
<ajmitch_> dholbach: sure, but a common, set time might be good
<\sh> hmm..is it possible to put me on the motu wannabe  list even if I'm not a member right now?
<dholbach> i don't want to push people into jobs, but the more reviewers the merrier :-)
<ajmitch_> push away ;)
<dholbach> \sh: tomorrow should be the CC meeting
<dholbach> although we have no time yet
<dholbach> i will vouch for all of you who did work in the MOTU crew
<\sh> dholbach: apr 10th it's written in the topic
<dholbach> thanks
<ajmitch_> if I'm not around in time for the kickoff, speak up for me doing stuff, will you? ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch_: for each topic i will wait 10 seconds and then say "ajmitch is working on it", "ajmitch wanted to take care of it", "ajmitch is upstream maintainer", "ajmitch wanted to do that for ages", right?
<dholbach> ;-)
<ivoks> lol
<\sh> *lol*
<crimsun> ouch
<ivoks> and then, in the end, say "ajmitch is god"
<whiprush> it's gtk's fault, which is maintained by ajmitch.
<ivoks> :)
<dholbach> hahaha :-)
<ajmitch_> dholbach: uh, maybe not quite that enthusiastic, thanks ;)
<ajmitch_> whiprush: remember, we blame gtk boogs on dholbach now
<\sh> hmmm
<dholbach> and if there should ever be a broken gnome-{panel,session,...}, blame it on me :-)
<\sh> wil wheaton runs debian
<whiprush> file that bug in malone. Who does malone? Who else, ajmitch.
<ajmitch_> that's why he joined the gnome team :)
<\sh> we should encourage him with a nice gnome or kde start trek tng theme to switch to ubuntu ;)
<ajmitch_> hey even I'm not crazy enough to work on malone
<\sh> "ensign crusher, report to bridge, cpt. shuttleworth is awaiting your report"
<ivoks> omg :)
<\sh> hehehe
<\sh> i read it on ian murdocks blog now
<\sh> it appears to be a deja vu, might the matrix has been changed or whatever, but in the moment I'm watching star trek tng (season 1-7)
<\sh> and now, I'm reading this, time to blog ;)
<dholbach> dunno if you heard it, but CC meeting is on  May 10th, 16:00 UTC
<\sh> oh..tomorrow 18hundread hours
<\sh> then i have to come early to work
<dholbach> \sh: if you can't make it, i'll make sure everything's alright for you
<\sh> dholbach: thx..I hope I can make it :) well, at least i will attend a few minutes later
<dholbach> i'm off to uni - see you later
<\sh> harhar
<\sh> I have it ;)
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/14-Ensign-Crusher,-report-to-bridge,-Cpt.-Shuttleworth-is-awaiting-your-report.html
<\sh> just for the fun of it ;)
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> byebye
<\sh> cu dholbach
<dholbach> re
<jeld> hello all
<jeld> I have a question about deb building, would this be the right channel to ask?
<ogra> hi all
<ogra> whiprush !
<whiprush> hey ogra
<ogra> whiprush, hey, do you read ubuntu-users ?
<whiprush> occasionally
<whiprush> what's up?
<ogra> you should
<whiprush> Well, I /try/
<whiprush> but I usually skip over stuff
<ogra> lots of requests for websites like spreadfirefox.com ;)
<whiprush> oh
<whiprush> already on that
<whiprush> :)
<ogra> i answered some
<whiprush> I mailed the one guy
<ogra> pointing people to the BOF spec
* whiprush nods
* dholbach waits for the magic word... :-)
<whiprush> I have been out all week though
<whiprush> I am now back
<whiprush> and THE FRIDGE is my priority.
<dholbach> YES
<dholbach> GIVE ME THEFRIDGE! :_)
<thom> GET IN THE FRIDGE
<chmj> O.o
<whiprush> fresh from the vegetable drawer
<ogra> since there are no mail adresses on the udu wiki, someone (you or jdub) should join the duiscussion i think
<whiprush> I will in a few hours when I get to work.
<ogra> to point out that someone is working on it... and to ancourage them to join forces ;)
* whiprush nods
<whiprush> i was off to a slow start since thom infected everyone with his flu.
<ogra> thom ?
<ogra> nah, that was sladen
<ogra> (I'm pretty sure)
<whiprush> i've been told thom was patient zero
<ogra> oh
<whiprush> sladen was in my room though
<thom> i'm blaming jdub, personally
<whiprush> no wonder I almost died
<whiprush> know if riddell got sick?
<Riddell> whiprush: I've been in bed all week
<dholbach> oh... poor you :-///
<whiprush> Riddell: me too.
<whiprush> I couldn't even go to work.
<whiprush> curse you sladen.
<whiprush> I will ridicule him on my blog for such insolance.
<dholbach> jordi was pretty sick as well
<Riddell> I havn't heard much from sladen since he went to Malbourne, I suspect he's been sent to one of those refugee centres for failing to fill in some form
<whiprush> heh
<tfheen> he'll just bike out of Australia back home to the UK
<whiprush> I am content in blaming him for the plague
<whiprush> there was one day where he was in bed the whole day
<Riddell> that would be my bed too
<dholbach> tfheen: haha :-)
<whiprush> hahah
<whiprush> yeah
<chmj> poor sladen
<Treenaks> Riddell: sladen was in your bed?
<Riddell> Treenaks: yes, spreading his germs
<ogra> heh
<chmj> heh
<chmj> you guys, the poor oke was sick also
<Unfrgiven> whiprush: hey dude
<whiprush> hey
<dholbach> hey Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> hey dholbach
<Unfrgiven> how goes it guys
<Unfrgiven> just got home from work and then grocery shopping
<whiprush> I am headed to work in a minute
<Unfrgiven> whiprush: oh i see... well have a nice day :)
<whiprush> heh
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: what time is it out your way?
<whiprush> I'll have a monday
<dholbach> 11:07
<Unfrgiven> whiprush: :) well have a nice monday then ;)
<dholbach> and i'm awake for 6 hours now *yawn a bit*
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: woah... how come?
<dholbach> i was SO tired yesterday... went to bed at 21:00
<dholbach> now i'll prepare some black tea and get cracking on my thesis
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: ah right... yeah im tired as today... havent slept much the last two nites... i want to have an early one tonight but i know it wont happen
<dholbach> :-)))
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: whats the topic of your thesis? is it for your masters?
<dholbach> it's not a masters degree, we have different degrees in germany, but yes... i'll finish my studies with it
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: i work on a server and a library to store user preferences remotely
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: for your thesis?
<dholbach> yes
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: i meant for your masters?
<dholbach> erm... i dunno how to answer your question
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: hehe ok let me explain. is your thesis part of study for a degree? a phd?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> i'm a "diplom-informatiker (fh)" afterwards, if that helps you :-)
<Fackamato> Hi
<Fackamato> Anyone noticed that the wiki is kunda buggy?
<Fackamato> kinda**
<dholbach> what's going wrong?
<thom> YES
<thom> the wiki has always been buggy
<Fackamato> heh
<Fackamato> well, tried to change my password (just registered), tried two times and got errors both the times
<Fackamato> then after a minute or so it had changed itself, forcing me to re-login
<Fackamato> and now I tried to add a comment, but I got an error
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: so did the author of the fast-user-switch-applet email you back? with regards to the wierd configure dependency on gdm?
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: if you have a look at my version of it, some ./configure flags make it happen
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: and yes the "diplom-informatiker" does help me :) sounds like a diploma
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: yes :-)
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: where can i find your version of it?
<Fackamato> bah
<dholbach> i have it on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages as well
<Fackamato> I've made a fool of myself
<Fackamato> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCandidates#bottom
<Fackamato> D;
<dholbach> should be ubuntu.gplan.info/<something>
<Fackamato> I still don't understand how to just add a universe candidate
<Fackamato> I should just edit the page?
<Fackamato> (was looking for a "add application" button)
<ogra> that would be cool....
<Fackamato> so!?
<dholbach> Fackamato: yes, just edit the wiki, that'd be nice
<Fackamato> are you serious?
<Burgundavia> ogra, hey
<Fackamato> Okay, I'm editing.
<ogra> Burgundavia, ho
<Fackamato> Don't blame me.
<dholbach> Fackamato: ROCK :-)
<Burgundavia> ogra, I think I am mostly done with the UbuntuGIS page
<ogra> Fackamato, its a wiki ;)
<ogra> Burgundavia, looking at it
<Burgundavia> do you want to announce the list to somewhere, to generate interest?
* Fackamato has never used a wiki before D:
* Burgundavia curses the Ubuntu wiki generally, just to keep in the practice
<ogra> heh
<ogra> Burgundavia, yes, i'll do
<Burgundavia> ok
<ogra> Burgundavia, wow, thats a heap of work you did, really cool !
<Burgundavia> now we need people who have actually used the programs to come forward and say what is good/bad
<Fackamato> hm
<Fackamato> what should I type in "status"
<Fackamato> and wtf happens if two people edits the wiki at the same time
<Burgundavia> our wiki would probably break
<Fackamato> ;)
<Fackamato> YEAH BABY!
<Fackamato> check it out
<Unfrgiven> has the ubuntuMOTU list been created yet?
<Fackamato> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCandidates
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: nope
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: bummer... :(
<dholbach> it usually takes some time, so no worry :-)
<Burgundavia> I am hoping that malone will include a simple interface like Fackamato is looking for
<Fackamato> ;)
<Fackamato> Anyone got comments on E-UAE? :P
<Fackamato> Or don't we have any Amiga users in here ;(
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: i spoke to Mako at UDU about membership for myself and he said that he'd add me. still hasnt happened. anything i can do to quicken the process? is it likely to be discussed at the council meeting?
<ogra> Unfrgiven, if its discussed, this will happen there, yes
<Unfrgiven> ogra: awesome. how are things with you ogra? :)
<ogra> fine thanks :)
<Unfrgiven> ogra: has anything happened with the hardware database reporting? i'd mentioned at UDU that i'd like to get involved in its development
<ogra> Unfrgiven, not yet...
<ogra> Unfrgiven, fedora is asking me to help tem, they want the same...
<Unfrgiven> ogra: oh thats good! right?
<ogra> lets see....
<ogra> i'm not a friend of kudzu, discover and whatever else they use
<Burgundavia> ah
<Unfrgiven> ogra: any idea as to when things are likely to kick off with regards to development?
<Burgundavia> meeting today to kick off
<ogra> very soon i guess...
<Burgundavia> 19:00 UTC
<ogra> lets wait what comes tinoght in the kickoff meeting
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: i'm on the phone brb
<ogra> s/tinoght/tonight
<Unfrgiven> where is the meeting going to be? and what UTC time is it now?
<Burgundavia> #ubuntu-meeting
<Burgundavia> should be about 2 hours
<ogra> Unfrgiven, date -u
<Burgundavia> Unfrgiven, where do you live?
<thom> 09:36 UTC currently
<Unfrgiven> damn... thats like 5 am here :(
<Unfrgiven> Burgundavia: Sydney, Australia
<Burgundavia> ah
<Lathiat> pff
<Lathiat> its 3am here
<Unfrgiven> does anyone know how i can get irssi to log all channels to separate txt files automatically? i figure ill join the channel and slepp :)
<Burgundavia> Unfrgiven, the meeting will be logged
<Burgundavia> fabbione does it I think
<Lathiat> . /set autolog on
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: i'll attend the member meeting and tell mako
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: thanks
<Fackamato> \o/
<dholbach> Richte binfmt-support ein (1.2.4) ...
<dholbach> update-binfmts: warning: /usr/share/binfmts/cli: no executable /usr/bin/cli found, but continuing anyway as you request
<dholbach> Enabling additional executable binary formats: binfmt-support.
<dholbach> hrm
<ogra> mono.... ?
<dholbach> yes
<ogra> should depend on cli-common...
<dholbach> no #ubuntu-mono yet? :-)
<ogra> hmm, actually no... dli-common has only the debhelper scripts
<ogra> cli even
<ogra> hey, the mono team is only 3 ppl yet :) what do you expect
<dholbach> that's how #ubuntu-motu started ;-)
<ogra> heh.... but there was growth forseeable....
<dholbach> you'll have 53973597359753 of users soon :-)
<ogra> i think MOTUMono will take more time
<ogra> then its time for a channel ;)
<dholbach> think big!
<ogra> but first lets have mono... then the users ;)
<dholbach> ho, monodoc-browser is broken
<ogra> as long as gtk-sharp is blocked you will se no apps
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> maybe that's why
<dholbach> but i should have never found its way to my harddisk without it
<dholbach> *HRM*
<\sh> what's up now? s/python/mono/?
<\sh> qt-sharp is not stable enough ;)
<dholbach> \sh: i just tried to install it
<ogra> it shouldnt even have built
<ogra> there is still a monoi-mint dependency...
* ogra wonders where dholbach got that
<\sh> the divitech si server broke this morning
<\sh> the new one
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> ogra: just installed mono and monodoc-browser
<\sh> and it looks like, that the Changerequest tomorrow morning will be postponed
<ogra> be happy, so they have work for you and you wont get fired
<ogra> dholbach, hmm, is that arch all ?
<dholbach> you should know better than me :-)
<\sh> ogra: well...they don't have to fire me
<dholbach> i just ran apt-get install
<ogra> dholbach, yep, arch all
<\sh> ogra: this morning i got a letter from my ex-wife
<\sh> she wants more money
<ogra> heh, thats why i'm not married yet....
<\sh> and if she doesn't get it until the 30.05. she wants to hire a lawyer
<\sh> so it can be, that I will disappear for a long time ;)
<ogra> ... but if you dont give it your ex, youll give it to the tax office
<ogra> :)
<\sh> south america
<\sh> some place with no "auslieferungsvertrag"
<ogra> heh
<\sh> believe me or not...i'm one of those guys, who are not gay, but in the end, assfucked...sorry for the words
<dholbach> "for open words - join the MOTU world"
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> bbl
<chmj> anyone know Murray Cumming's irc nick ?
<ogra> mcummings ?
<thom> murrayc
<ogra> chmj, dholbach knows the exact name... ask him if he's back
<chmj> ok
<ogra> ah, yes, what thiom saidd
* thom sends ogra on a typing course ;-)
<ogra> rather say acer they should sell laptops with non-trampoline-keyboards ;)
<thom> heh
<Treenaks> ogra: acer keyboards rock!
<ogra> gah
<ogra> not mine
<zul> acer hot keys support has been added to 2.6.11.91
<Treenaks> zul: acer hot keys?
<zul> yeah support for special acer keys on their laptop
<Treenaks> zul: All of my keys work fine..
<zul> ah
<ogra> Treenaks, they only send keycodes, not events...
<Treenaks> ogra: yes.. which is Good
<ogra> so waking up with the sleep button doesnt work...
<Treenaks> ogra: I don't want my volume buttons to automagically work, I want them to send events
<Treenaks> ogra: uh.. keycodes
<ogra> heh
<Treenaks> ogra: stop confusing me!
<ogra> lol
<\sh> http://www.b3ta.com/board/4577623 <- plug barbie
<ogra> \sh, my GF wants one...
<ogra> \sh, how is the capacity ?
<\sh> ogra: dunno :)
<\sh> ogra: just found it on the blog of a friend :)
* ogra wants a Big Jim !
<ogra> or Action Team....
<\sh> ogra: big jim...yes...thats my youth ;)
<ogra> mine too, but i doubt many people in here will know it
<ogra> \sh, we are to old :-/
<\sh> ogra: correct...time to say goodbye ;)
<ogra> heh, nah, not yet
<\sh> i mean from big jim ;)
<ogra> yeah
<\sh> bye bye big jim ;)
* \sh thinks about the big jim doll he had..and spiderman and superman ;)
<\sh> ogra: this is better: http://kju.de/weblog/archiv/2005/04/kontrolle
<ogra> \sh, heh, yeah, i just had all the metal detector love :)
<ogra> i know how they feel
* sladen pops up in London
<ogra> yay, sladen
<Treenaks> hey, it's teh sladen
<tseng|work> good morning motus
<zul> hey tseng
<tseng|work> looks like we'll have beagle tonight
<tseng|work> after i fix my (jeffs) retardation
<Treenaks> \o/
<ogra> tseng|work, runs rocksolid since 1/2h here :)
<tseng|work> ogra rock on
<tseng|work> from the source on archive?
<ogra> tseng|work, but you should drop mono-mint ;)
<tseng|work> need to merge the damn build-dep
<ogra> from the build-dep
<tseng|work> ogra: I need to talk to meebey about a policy for that
<tseng|work> like official set of base build-deps for mono
<ogra> has debian still mint ?
<tseng|work> yes
<ogra> mmkay...
<tseng|work> all the stuff we are running now is in experimental
<tseng|work> unstable has 1.0.5
<ogra> ah
<ogra> blam crashes for me.... during rss update
<tseng|work> 1.8.0?
<tseng|work> got a message?
<tseng|work> you can throw a mono --debug in /usr/bin/blam even
<ogra> i'll do...
<ogra> but it looks similar to the former version....
<tseng|work> ogra any chance for gst-plugins-multiverse?
<ogra> tseng|work, the package looks ok on first sight...
<ogra> havent compiled it yet
<tseng|work> i had trouble adding lame
<tseng|work> ill look at that again later
<tseng|work> so much to do!
<tseng|work> i wonder if i should make my 2nd work pc breezy
<tseng|work> yep, im a sucker
<tseng|work> ogra: do you think we should try to move everything to main now, and work things out over 6 months
<tseng|work> or put in stuff that is good now
<thom> move everything now
<ogra> lets wait until the kickoff is done tonight....
<thom> you can always back out
<ogra> yep
<thom> but if you want testing, it's best to break people early
<tseng|work> well not this minute
<tseng|work> like.. this week
<ogra> yep, lets goo
<ogra> -o
<tseng|work> rock on.
<thom> breaking stuff is fun ;-)
<ogra> yeah
<tseng|work> so far i only break stuff on buildd, not on peoples systems :P
<tseng|work> i got out of the habit of pbuilder for awhile
<tseng|work> probably around the time of fire-testing builds on amd64
<tseng|work> ugh whats up with gtk-sharp ftbfs on amd64? libvte
<ogra> yeah, its broken...
<tseng|work> sucks
<ogra> elmo is already sorting it out, if i understood correctly a cron script broke
<tseng|work> hm ok
<tseng|work> rock on elmo!
<\sh> when is the meeting tonight?
<ogra> so vte4 and vte-dev were built
<ogra> \sh, 21:00 german time
<tseng|work> i need to go do some real work
<ogra> bah
<tseng|work> ill pop on later.
<ogra> this is the real work ;)
<tseng|work> it is, but im not getting paid for it yet
<\sh> ogra: ah good time...i will listen to the discussion ;)
<ogra> tseng|work, use lintian and get rid of the warnings, else the gstreamer0.8-plugins-multiverse look fine
<tseng|work> rock on
<tseng|work> ill work on getting -lame building
<ogra> great
<\sh> we should update lintian..the checks are sometimes horrible
<\sh> especially for the migration of .desktop files...cause not all desktop will go (in the moment) to /usr/share/applications
<\sh> i'll go home...laters
<tseng|work> ouch remind me to add libdbus-cil dep manually to muine
<tseng|work> or fix cli-common
<ogra> oh, yeah
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: arrived? :-)
<Nafallo> dooh! that's an automatic Mithrandir :-P
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<Amaranth> hey
<dholbach> re
<dholbach> i think i will highlight "backport" for now and bash random people *grtmbl*
<ogra> heh
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> i like the hoary-extras part of it
<ogra> dholbach, anybody special in mind ?
<Amaranth> dunno why my app went into their universe repo though, it's not in breezy
<dholbach> #ubuntu-de
<herve> heya!
<dholbach> hey herve
<dholbach> ogra: please say "backports sind bse", kthxbye
<dholbach> ogra: thanks
<ogra> heh
<herve> les backports, c'est mal (TM)
<bddebian> Heya herve
<dholbach> oui, ils me donne les mals  la tte ;-)
<ogra> lol
<herve> que la tte ? :-)
<herve> ok, let's stop here!
<dholbach> it was wrong, right? :-)
<herve> er...
<herve> yes :-)
<dholbach> at least my i knew i couldnt trust my french... that's at least something :-)
<herve> you need a cultural immersion!
<herve> so
<herve> who feel brave enough to upload some fixup of mine?
<dholbach> you're not in the keyring yet?
<whiprush> tseng: booyah thanks for beagle!
<dholbach> herve: ^^^
<Amaranth> beagle is in now?
<ogra> but doesnt build yet
<Amaranth> :/
<herve> dholbach, last time I tried, it was silently ignored
<ogra> Amaranth, minor stuff
<herve> dholbach, then tseng tried for me (as I remember) and was told his key was unknown
<Amaranth> /ubuntu/dists/breezy/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz: MD5Sum mismatch <-hmm
<Amaranth> perhaps the mirror is updating
<dholbach> herve: <elmo> dholbach: no, I'll do that in a  bit
<dholbach> herve: where is the fix? deb.oursours.net?
<herve> dholbach, I sent him a mail
<herve> http://deb.oursours.net/motu/pending
<dholbach> herve: both?
<dholbach> argl... i won't be able to upload 9.4mb
<dholbach> won't happen
<herve> dholbach, who cares about ttf-larabie anyway? :-)
<dholbach> right
<herve> I'll upload it when I'm in the keyring
<herve> this server has much upload bandwidth
<dholbach> herve: wow... you're the patch-machine
<herve> :-p
<herve> and the cvs patches stealer :-)
<dholbach> herve: uploaded
<herve> rock!
<herve> dholbach, also I have sent all these patches to the BTS
<dholbach> wow
<dholbach> !
<herve> that's the least you can expect from me ;-)
<elmo> herve: did you mail upload/keyring with your details?
<herve> elmo, I mailed you directly as I remember
<herve> dholbach, rejected for the same reasons as tseng
<dholbach> herve: it's in main
<dholbach> that's why *grmbl*
<dholbach> i hope they guys approve me for main uploads in the next TB meeting
<herve> ?
<herve> never saw that
<herve> I'll rather ask seb128 then
<dholbach> yes... that's what i'd do
<herve> elmo, I mailed your address at canonical, you want me to send another to keyring@... ?
<elmo> no, it's fine
<elmo> I found it
<herve> I have a bigger issue now, anyway :)
<herve> hmm... packages.ubuntu.com say dia is in universe
<dholbach> apt-cache show dia
<herve> unless it changed for breezy
<ogra> argl... the kernel build failed because of docbook errors... hrm
<dholbach> dia-gnome isnt
<dholbach> i meant "showsrc"
<herve> ogra, and since docs are compiled at the end... your compile failed at 90%? sweet :-)
<ogra> herve, not mine, fabbiones
<herve> haggai, the buildds
<herve> sorry haggai...
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/l/linux-source-2.6.12/2.6.11.91-1.1/linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.11.91-1.1_20050509-1551-i386-failed
<ogra> thats a HUGE buildlog
<herve> that's a huge package ;-)
<thom> glad it succeeded on amd64 though ;-)
<Amaranth> damn, i really wanted that crack
<dholbach> thom: the kernel works for you on amd64?
<herve> it's unreleased kernel guys, I hope you know what you're doing :-)
<dholbach> thom: if it's the same as on people.u.c/~fabbione, it broke my box every 30m
<thom> dholbach: oh really? i've not rebooted yet, was just commenting i was glad it'd build
<thom> built
<ogra> dholbach, oh ?
<Amaranth> are SSE/SSE2 used on amd64?
<ogra> dholbach, worksforme
<dholbach> hrmhrmhrm
<ogra> since some days
<dholbach> it just "rebooted"
<ogra> hmm
<Amaranth> "error connecting to "www.oasis-open.org" (Connection timed out)"
<dholbach> "broke and booted new" would be more appropriate, nothing in the system logs
* Amaranth stabs things
* ogra suspects acpi 
<lamont> ogra: is openjade bug (it requires net access)
<ogra> lamont, yep, i know that one...
<lamont> it's been fixed at least once or twice before (or simillarly identical things)
<herve> dholbach, hmm... by the way
<herve> am I offically a motu now? how can I tell?
<ogra> i think i saw this with scrollkeeper and glade packages too.... its easy to fix with a locally provided dtd i think
<dholbach> herve: you're on wiki/MOTU
<ogra> :)
<herve> and I didn't know!
<herve> :-)
<herve> I thought I would have a plastic card or something ;-)
<ogra> we're planning t-shirts :)
<dholbach> business cards and @ubuntu.com mail adresses as well
<herve> and a ubuntu tie? :-)
<ogra> argh
<Amaranth> your very own ubuntu jet? :)
<dholbach> be modest :-)
<herve> a bicycle?
<dholbach> being a MOTU itself is an honour :-)
<Amaranth> your very own ubuntu model plane? :D
<dholbach> a model rocket! :-)
<herve> a VIP entry in concerts
<ogra> but only the special ones.... ana mouskouri, david hasselhoff :)
<ogra> nana even
<dholbach> we should have a t-shirt logo competition and decide in the next motu meeting
<dholbach> to make the t-shirt-idea finally TAKE OFF :-)
<herve> ogra, don't tell me you know nana mouskouri!
<dholbach> who doesnt know her?
<herve> I tought she was only known in france
<ogra> herve, i'm 35 ....
<dholbach> and i'm 26, but i still know her :-)
<ogra> herve, thats what was on tv when i was achild
<dholbach> not personally, but ... :-)
<herve> I thought it was french-only...
<doko> dholbach: I thought I know your glasses, now I'm sure :-P
<dholbach> hahahaaaa :-))))
<ogra> lol
<dholbach> doko: you rock! :-)
<elmo> dholbach: is there anyone else you're aware of, waiting on me for keys?
<herve> hmm...
<herve> I can't remember his name
<herve> the motu before me
<ogra> tritium ?
<dholbach> elmo: how is the status for AaronLake (metallikop)? it was ages ago, but he set himself on the CCAgenda
<dholbach> tritium will be discussed in tomorrows CC meeting
<herve> ogra, no, he was spanish I think
<ogra> koke ?
<dholbach> koke, Jorge Bernal
<herve> ha yes
<elmo> koke I did
<dholbach> he made it in, even uploaded some packages
<herve> ok
<ogra> i think he was sorted
<dholbach> if metallikop made it in (and i'm quite sure about it), i remove him from the CCAgenda
<elmo> metallikop is in
<Amaranth> breezy meeting is on 30 minutes?
<elmo>   * [Sat, 19 Mar 2005 08:38:07 GMT]  {Added [Upload] } Aaron Lake (work) <alake@mhnd.com>
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> *shake head in disbelief*
<dholbach> tomorrow's CC will be LONG
<\sh> re
<herve> elmo, got you mail, thanks!
<dholbach> champagne!
<elmo> dholbach: whine, don't say that
<dholbach> elmo: i will prepare a list of guys i can absolutely vouch for, so we can maybe speed things up a bit
<herve> heya \sh!
<\sh> hey herve...how u doing
<herve> i'm a complete motu now! :-)
* \sh should go to a dentist
<dholbach> elmo: and we should have a <needs-to-FINALLY-show-up>-section on the wiki page
<\sh> herve: well done :)
<herve> there was someone who seems to have disappear
<herve> q-funk
<dholbach> yes
<herve> he couldn't get used to being calm? :-)
<ogra> mako asked him to put some more stuff on his wiki page...
<herve> that was long ago
<ogra> he didnt like to or didnt know what....
<\sh> i hope i have finished my how to
<herve> maybe the second CC meeting
<\sh> until next weekend
<herve> so he is MIA :-)
* \sh is shaking is head...pykde coder doesn't release a new rev of the package...preparing to dpatch
<\sh> all engine engaged
<dholbach> elmo: unfortunately only 3 people i could move to "another section"
<elmo> dholbach: oh well, thanks for trying
<dholbach> i could add a MOTU section or something... hrm
<\sh> hmmm...i should prepare some coffee
<\sh> jesus this will be an adventure
<abarbaccia> dholbach, hey - i'm here
<Amaranth> abarbaccia: We're all in the meeting right now. :)
<abarbaccia> im watching - what fun!
<dholbach> abarbaccia: we're the guys taking care of the universe component of ubuntu and most of the ubuntu developers start in the MOTU crew
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU has a couple of (incomplete) documents on what we do, how to get there and why it is fun :-)
<ajmitch_> hi all :)
<dholbach> hey ajmitch_
<herve> hi ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> dholbach: don't worry, you don't have to volunteer me for too much ;)
<dholbach> ok :-)
<crimsun> I'm glad I happened to rescreen then ;)
<ajmitch_> sounds more like the JaneW fanclub in there now ;)
<dholbach> hey tseng|work
<tritium> Hi everyone!
<herve> hi tritium !
<crimsun> lo tritium
<dholbach> tritium: hey michael
* tritium waves at herve, crimsun, dholbach
<ajmitch_> tseng|work: you're lucky, they haven't hit mono on the list yet
<crimsun> bets on how long this kickoff meeting lasts? ;)
<dholbach> 2h30m
<ajmitch_> crimsun: a long long time - I've got work in 20 minutes :(
<tritium> 3h
<ajmitch_> hey bradb
<bradb> hey ajmitch_
<crimsun> ajmitch_: ouch.
<bradb> dholbach: 16:00? i thought we said 20:00 :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | => http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList <= | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Meeting with Malone crew: 12 May 20:00 UTC
<bradb> cool :)
* ajmitch_ checks calendar
<ajmitch_> ah, I'll be at work then, can still make the meeting :)
<bradb> heh
<tseng|work> hey dudes
<whiprush> hey tseng|work
<tseng|work> ajmitch_: is mono on a list?
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/specs
<tseng|work> and where are we?
<ajmitch_> UDU bofs, kickoff meeting, #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> OEMInstaller
<tseng|work> in an hour and twenty minutes ill start my long drive home
<tseng|work> so
<ajmitch_> currently going through the high priority specs
<tseng|work> yes
<tseng|work> maybe when we get to medium i can ask to move it up
<ajmitch_> and we've been at it for 40 minutes already :)
<tseng|work> yes
<tseng|work> i dont really have time for this
<ajmitch_> neither do I, I've got to be at work in 15 min
<crimsun> check back in a couple hours; I'm sure we'll still be there and lively
<crimsun> ;)
<tseng|work> well ill sit in
<ajmitch_> but I'll reconnect about 10 min after I leave
<ogra> bradb, we have breezy-kickoff meeting in #ubuntu-meeting, HwdbMaloneIntegration is on the topic list...
<tseng|work> someone ping me and go nuts if i miss mono
<tseng|work> or something
<ajmitch_> sure
<ogra> tseng|work, we'll care for yu
<ajmitch_> we'll just volunteer you for it
<ajmitch_> it's only assigning people to tasks
<tseng|work> thanks
<tseng|work> ill hopefulyl still be here
<tseng|work> (these could be less stressful I imagine)
<ajmitch_> I delegated dholbach to volunteer me for things if I'm away :)
<tseng|work> like
<tseng|work> broken up
<tseng|work> 2 or 3 meetings
<ajmitch_> dude
<ajmitch_> beagle is broken
<tseng|work> dude no shit
<tseng|work> :D
<tseng|work> ill fix it at home
<crimsun> mono isn't running on my toaster :(
<tseng|work> just a build-dep
<ajmitch_> yeah, looks simple
<tseng|work> if anyone asks I blame jeff
<ajmitch_> I could fix now & upload if you want?
<tseng|work> you could
<tseng|work> i have limited access through the firewall
<ajmitch_> alright
<tseng|work> (at work)
<ogra> ajmitch_, could you wait until gtk-sharp built on amd64 ?
<ogra> must happen the next minutes
<ajmitch_> ogra: sure, I'll upload when I'm at work then
<ogra> yeah
<crimsun> (the amd64 buildds are down until the archive's fixed)
<ogra> its just the mint dependency...
<ajmitch_> ah
<ajmitch_> crimsun: what breakage?
<crimsun> ajmitch_: hoary's bash broke cron.daily
<Amaranth> so that's why everything died...
<crimsun> yep
<ajmitch_> lovely
<tseng|work> its not mint ogra
<tseng|work> for beagle anyway
<ogra> oh ?
<tseng|work> but mint does need to foad
<tseng|work> its sqlite on amd 64
<tseng|work> er
<tseng|work> on x86
<tseng|work> missing build-dep
<ogra> i thought i saw mint ....
<tseng|work> maybe
<tseng|work> but x86 doesnt use mint
<tseng|work> we can fix both
<tseng|work> we rock that hard
<ajmitch_> ok, volunteer me for WirelessNetworkManagement if I'm not back by then - time for me to go
<ajmitch_> bbiab
<dholbach> mono team! :-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> yeah
<bradb> ogra: it's not a 1.0 thing, so i should probably avoid putting much more thought into it for now; having said that, i think we did well capturing thoughts on the subject in Sydney.
* herve will try its first upload!
<tseng|work> bbiaf
<ogra> bradb, hmm, so will it or will it not be a breezy goal ? i guess its up to me to care for the distro side
<bradb> put it this way: it's not on the list of things for me to have to think about leading up July 1 :) after that, it's hard to predict what we'll want to do next.
<ogra> hmm... then i'll defer it for the distro too...
<ogra> hmm, or just include the id in the bugtext for a start...
<bradb> ogra: yeah, i think that's a good workaround at first.
<ogra> ok
<tritium> hey there trulux
<trulux> hey tritium
<tseng|work> am i still on?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> ^ tseng|work
<herve> anyone with a breezy pbuild env?
<herve> I can't set one up
<Nafallo> herve: yea.
<Nafallo> herve: there is an excellent wiki ;-)
<Nafallo> herve: try with hoary and then dist-upgrade...
<herve> good one
<dholbach> herve: i upgraded a hoary one
<Nafallo> dholbach: you actually have to ;-). breezy fails :-P.
<herve> ha! I'm not mad!
<herve> I mean... not about this :-)
<ajmitch_> heh
* ajmitch_ is back - what did I miss in the meeting?
<herve> meeting? oops...
<GheRivero> res
<dholbach> herve: #ubuntu-meeting - breezy kickoff
* ajmitch_ wants to throw this mouse against the wall or something :)
* ajmitch_ makes sure to stay well away from kernel hacking - evil stuff there
<herve> dholbach, hasn't it started yet?
<dholbach> it has
<herve> how far did they kick it, it the end? :-)
<ajmitch_> herve: it started about 2 hours ago
<dholbach> 1h43m ago
<ajmitch_> they're about halfway through the list
<Nafallo> herve: 15m left :-P
<herve> I'll read the report, then :-)
<dholbach> no... it will take longer :-)
<Nafallo> dholbach: ahh, it's allowed to. I thought there would be a second meeting...
<herve> good... I can't set up a hoary pbuild either...
<Nafallo> herve: no? why?
<crimsun> a hoary pbuilder shouldn't be problematic; where are you hitching?
<siretart> hey there
<crimsun> lo siretart
<tritium> herve, did you work on dia?
<crimsun> yep, he did.
<herve> tritium, just uploaded by seb128 :-))
<siretart> I see the next CommunityCouncil is going to start tomorrow afternoon, right?
<tritium> herve, I saw :)  awesome
<crimsun> siretart: yep
<herve> tritium, and I can even upload by myself now!
<siretart> crimsun: I don't think I can make it :(
<tritium> herve, yay!
* bddebian shoves some kernel source ajmitch_ 's way
<herve> hey! that's really my name in breezy.changes!
* herve is so proud!
<tseng|work> rock on dude
<ajmitch_> bddebian: thank :P
<bddebian> :)
<ajmitch_> bddebian: now what use was that?
<herve> now I'll watch the build logs with extra care :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch_: Get crackin' ;-P
<ajmitch_> tseng|work: yeah, I'll do universe security
<tseng|work> rock on dude
<ajmitch_> want me to volunteer you too?
<tseng|work> yes
<herve> Nafallo, "E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'dzhandle restart-pending-instances'
<herve> "
<ogra> herve !
<tseng|work> and pitti knows the other 2 dudes
<herve> ogra !
<siretart> crimsun: mako has had a look at the MaintainerCandidates the last time. Do they need to reappear tomorrow? This question (from dholbach) left unaswered the last meeting
<ajmitch_> great
<ogra> herve, applause !!
<dholbach> herve: remove some crack from /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/.....
<Nafallo> tseng: you to ;-). atleast me :-).
* herve offers (virtual) champagne!
<dholbach> :-)
<herve> dholbach, okay, will clean up
<crimsun> siretart: for maintainership they'll need to be at TB. If they've already been approved as members, there's no need unless they wish to.
<tseng|work> nafallo: no nick -> name association y et
<herve> hi koke, my fellow motu colleague :-)
<Nafallo> tseng: Christian Bjlevik, *shakes hands* :-)
<koke> hi!
<koke> shit, I missed the kickoff meeting??
<Nafallo> koke: ongoing
<tritium> siretart, I plan on being there
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/specs  <-- koke
<dholbach> #ubuntu-meeting
* Nafallo was just about to past ;-)
<Nafallo> that url...
<ogra> koke, we are at PDASupport
<koke> thanks :D
<ogra> ;)
<ajmitch_> hey koke  :)
<siretart> tritium: could you excuse me for tomorrow? I still would like to become a member, but I cannot attend tomorrow. Last time, Mako had no objections, but alone, he couldn't approve me
<dholbach> siretart: we'll work it out
<tritium> siretart, I'll let them know that you can't attend
<siretart> dholbach: tritium: thank you both! *hug* :)
<dholbach> :-)
<tritium> siretart, sure :)
<crimsun> welp, we've passed the 2-hr mark =)
<\sh> crimsum: when u have time tomorrow after coc meeting it would be nice to talk to you about some things with pyqt and pykde
<crimsun> \sh: sure!
<\sh> i saw u already prepared the actual package for 3.14.1 :) and I made some patches for pykde to work properly with call-by-ref things in kde
<crimsun> great
<koke> bradb: are u around??
<bradb> koke: yes
<koke> can I add packages to malone?
<koke> there's no pypanel package
<bradb> koke: i'll get back to you on that in a few minutes. i have to find out if we've added a way to add packages by-hand yet.
<ajmitch_> that reminds me, can I be on the MOTU team on malone, please?
<dholbach> ajmitch_: dunno who made it
<ajmitch_> ogra
<koke> thx, anyway I think I'm going to fix it before filing the bug ;)
<abarbaccia> hey guys - can ask about things i see wrong with ubuntu and we can find solutions to them
<ogra> ??
<abarbaccia> or things i would like to help make better
<ajmitch_> and then if we can see bugs assigned to a team, it'll be all good
<ajmitch_> ogra: you're listed as team leader
<ogra> ah, yes... i'll add you
<ajmitch_> thanks
<ajmitch_> might as well add the other MOTUs
<ogra> yep
<crimsun> that'd be swell :)
<Nafallo> ogra: I was amazed the other day that there were only two MOTUs :-P
<ajmitch_> then we can do other teams, like Mono :)
<ogra> :-P
<dholbach> abarbaccia: like what?
<ajmitch_> still working on beagle, btw
<ajmitch_> just getting the last of the build deps
<herve> if there's a motu team on malone, I hope I'm part of it :-)
<herve> hi ivoks
<abarbaccia> dholbach, well, i would like to see beagle integrated into ubuntu - i think its a really powerful tool that needs to be included - also, firefox crashes when you go to print (dont know if its a firefox bug or an ubuntu issue)
<abarbaccia> and there is no good media player under gnome packaged with ubuntu
<ogra> abarbaccia, were working on it
<dholbach> launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone is a good start
<ajmitch_> abarbaccia: beagle will go into main
<ivoks> hi all
<abarbaccia> ajmitch_, that sounds great
<ajmitch_> all those things are being worked on :)
<abarbaccia> hahaha
<herve> abarbaccia, rhythmbox?
<\sh> well...there is no good media player for kde as well...;)
<\sh> kaffeine is broken
<ogra> rhythmbox ?
<abarbaccia> herve, right now i use amarok because it is SO much better than all the rest - but its annoying because of kde and the font issues and such
<\sh> noatun is i wont discuss is right now
<ivoks> \sh amarok
<\sh> ivoks: has problems with basic quth icecast streams
<abarbaccia> \sh, amarok is superior
<\sh> upstream problems
<siretart> how long does it take for katie to install an ACCEPTED package into the archive usually?
<crimsun> siretart: every 5 minutes
<crimsun> :0, :5, ...
<siretart> hm
<abarbaccia> regardless - i would like to see some decent audio player
<abarbaccia> and beagle having hte ability to search my thunderbird mail - for some reason it doesn't like it
<crimsun> siretart: if you aren't in the keyring, your upload is silently rejected
<herve> abarbaccia, i think the definition of "decent audio player" is up to everyone
<\sh> abarbaccia: I'm using amarok for my local mp3...but strange thing is, xmms is right now my fav for mp3/ogg live streams
<crimsun> siretart: and make sure you uploaded to ubuntu, not debian ;)
* tritium agrees with herve 
<siretart> crimsun: I uploaded it to debian (not myself. via sponsor), it got accepted there and got auto synced to ubuntu
<\sh> herve: well...the routines of xmms as a lib and implemented in a real nice env for gnome and kde would be fine...but for this, we need to get rid of arts and esd ;)
<abarbaccia> \sh, yes-  i m not sure what's out there GTK2 wise but theres gotta be a comaritive replacement to amarok thats not designed for kde
<herve> ha yes, is polyaudio up for breezy?
<crimsun> siretart: ah
<herve> or still too young?
<siretart> crimsun: 7 hours ago ;)
<crimsun> herve: it's being investigated
<ogra> herve, it was unmaintained during horay
<ogra> herve, upstream
<herve> sad to hear
<ogra> it has found a new maintainer recently
<abarbaccia> alright - what can i help out on?  like to learn before i try something complicated
<crimsun> herve: it's one of the options, but dmix is the focus
<abarbaccia> better yet - who wants to adopt me
<ivoks> well... there is special version of rhythmbox
<ivoks> crimsun i think dmix is better choice
<crimsun> abarbaccia: we don't really have adopters, since we mentor each other
<ivoks> crimsun i tried polypaudio and... it lacks support from other
<ogra> abarbaccia, just join the group ;)
<herve> abarbaccia, you're a two-month kitten? yes, I would adopt you :-)
<ivoks> gstreamer plugin is rather new... and... it should pass some time
<ivoks> :)
<abarbaccia> lol - never cute enough...
<abarbaccia> guess im gonna have to hang out for a bit and learn what's going on - then take it from there
<ajmitch_> :)
<herve> ogra, new pygtk, still no canvas :-)
<ajmitch_> yay, beagle built
<ogra> ivoks, there are some bad issues with dmix....there are a lot apps that have libesd hardcoded (mainly games) ....
<ogra> ajmitch_, yay
<abarbaccia> ajmitch_, are you in control of beagle?
<\sh> abarbaccia: do yourself a favour and run fast, here r some guys who are giving u much trouble if u don't take care ;)
<ogra> herve, but we'll have wobbly windows soon ;) who needs canvas then :)
<ajmitch_> abarbaccia: nope, we have a mono team though
<\sh> one minute not listening puff there is a new project
<herve> ogra, ours grandmothers? :-)
<herve> s/ours/our
<ogra> abarbaccia, we dont have _real_ personal packages, everything in universe is a team effort
<ogra> herve, heh
<ivoks> ogra yes, but u can configure esd to drop /dev/dsp after 1-2 seconds
<koke> w00t!: /bin/sh: tar: command not found
<ivoks> ogra and you don't have problem :)
<\sh> dholbach: what do u think about a coding day @ ogra's inn? ,-)
<herve> koke, check your PATH... or your filesystem!
<abarbaccia> ogra, i see i see - so the best i can do here is hang out and find something that needs working on?
<koke> file-roller is crazy
<ajmitch_> abarbaccia: so far in the last couple of days, tseng, ogra & now myself have touched beagle :)
<ogra> ivoks, anyway, if you want to do it right you have to fix a lot
<\sh> abarbaccia: check malone and take some things
<ivoks> ogra that's true...
<abarbaccia> malone?
<\sh> http://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone
<ogra> abarbaccia, url of our bugtracker (see topic)
<herve> abarbaccia, when you set up a patch (or better, a prepared source package) reviewers will check and upload it
* Nafallo goes to read the log and see what he said yes to :-P
<\sh> herve: hehe ;) you forgot "wait"
<herve> \sh, and fear my will! muhahaha!
<herve> :-)
<\sh> herve: "^GYou have packages to review" ;)
* koke needs some uploader friends :)
<crimsun> what do you need uploaded?
<herve> koke, you can't upload yet? now I can :-)
<koke> herve: I'm still waiting :(
<herve> argh!
* ogra dances around wildly....
<ajmitch_> ogra: what broke?
<herve> we told elmo an hour ago it's ok for you...
<koke> http://amedias.org/~koke/debian/breezy/ : sqlobject & pypanel
<ogra> gtk-sharp built on A M D 64 !!!
<ogra> finally
<crimsun> woo
<koke> they were hidden from the transition
<jabra> hey all
<dholbach> \sh: when's that?
<\sh> dholbach: next month? ;)
<dholbach> we'll see :-)
<herve> next month? I'm free :-)
<\sh> dholbach: right now i can't afford the trip  ;)
<\sh> ok..that's setteled ;)
<ajmitch_> ogra: yay!
<ajmitch_> ogra: just setting up my new breezy box for uploads :)
<abarbaccia> ajmitch_, when you are building beagle - see if you can compile it with the mozilla engine and see if it indexes thunderbird mail
<ogra> unlikely
<elmo> koke: sorry, I really thought I'd done your key.  really done now
<\sh> ogra: is it ok with u? ;)
<herve> hi jabra
<ogra> sure
<herve> koke, yeah! gimme five!
<jabra> been working to update my getwifi tool
<\sh> ogra: ok.. noted somehow in june meeting at ogra's inn ;)
<ivoks> uh... i'm so frustrated and angry...
<ajmitch_> elmo: thanks
<ogra> \sh, yep
<herve> ivoks?
<koke> argh, I almost fucked my second upload
<ivoks> herve politics...
<koke> :D
<ajmitch_> koke: wrong ditro in changelog?
<Nafallo> koke: ohh. was she pretty? :-)
<ivoks> herve I'm listening what Carla del Ponte (Haag) said about Croatia and... oh my god...
<koke> nope, I had binaries built too
<ivoks> if that's EU... we don't need it
* ajmitch_ waits  for beagle acceptance
<ivoks> did u see dashboard on tiger?
<\sh> ivoks: whats up?
<ivoks> gdesklets and superkaramba is much better than that :)
<abarbaccia> ivoks, it seems pretty slick - but how much of it will you actually use?
<ivoks> abarbaccia man, when running, takes 80% proc :)
<ajmitch_> ah, looks like I need to reboot to use this USB mouse :)
<ivoks> \sh with what? politics? :)
<ogra> ajmitch_, yeah, breezy love
<herve> phfew... these are not worth hotbabe! :-)
<abarbaccia> ivoks, what do you mean? the dashboard on Mac Tiger?
<ivoks> abarbaccia yeah
<Nafallo> ehm? reboot for usb? something is badly broken? ;-)
<ajmitch_> ogra: worse - windows XP
<ogra> argh
<ivoks> abarbaccia run top and start dashboard
<ajmitch_> I'm at work :)
<abarbaccia> ivoks, WOW - that's terrible - what machine were you running
* ogra shades his eyes
<abarbaccia> ivoks, i don't have a mac
<ivoks> abarbaccia iMac
<ivoks> abarbaccia that wasn't my machine
<\sh> ok gentlemen, I will go to bed right now...will have a hard day tomorrow
<abarbaccia> ivoks, because one of my profs at school had a G5 w. dual processors all nice - and it run smooth
<ivoks> \sh sleep tight :)
<ajmitch_> night \sh
<ivoks> abarbaccia yes, it runs smooth, but look at proc... other programs don't run smooth :)
<abarbaccia> ivoks, when i finally thought they got something right...
<\sh> g'night
<herve> I go too
<abarbaccia> alright guys - im gonna run - i'll be back later to try and figure out this whole "motu" thing
<abarbaccia> good luck
<herve> will have... well, a regular day with lots of chicks :-)
<ivoks> abarbaccia well... they did something that Linux still didn't :(
<herve> night all
<ivoks> abarbaccia best thing in Tiger is KPI
<ivoks> abarbaccia they finnaly defined kernel API
<ivoks> abarbaccia that should linux do too... :(
<ajmitch_> KPI?
<ivoks> kernel API
<ogra> Key Performance Indicator ? *g*
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> wifi-radar is much better than gnome's network-admin
<ogra> ivoks, could my grandma use it ?
<ivoks> ogra yes
<koke> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/2005-May/004376.html <-- I did it!
<ajmitch_> my grandma used to use DOS, so I guess she could use it :)
* ogra looks forward to network manager in breezy
<ivoks> i think wifi-radar should be priority :))
<ajmitch_> koke: congrats :)
<ivoks> ogra new one?
<ajmitch_> ogra: yeah, I did a foolish thing & volunteered to help thom with NetworkMagic :)
<ogra> yeah, we have a pypanel
<ivoks> ogra URL?
<ogra> ajmitch_, hehe
<ajmitch_> brb
<ivoks> couse network-admin sucks
<ogra> ivoks, none yet....
<tseng> bacl
<tseng> back
<ogra> ivoks, the version in ubuntu will rock
<ivoks> ogra ok... python based?
<koke> I'm using netapplet atm, but could be better
<ogra> ivoks, it will be a tewaked network manager...
<ogra> tweaked even
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> profiles in network-admin don't work
<ogra> just getting rid of all the suckage
<ogra> then its a fine tool
<ajmitch_> back
<ivoks> we'll see
<ajmitch_> it needs stablising a bit
<ajmitch_> I've got a couple of test machines for breezy now, which is good :)
<ajmitch_> although no amd64, if anyone is willing to donate hardware to me :)
<ivoks> ajmitch_ u are talking about...?
<ajmitch_> ivoks: general testing, and metwork manager in particular
<dholbach> good night
<ajmitch_> night dholbach
<ivoks> dholbach night
<ivoks> guys... can i get some of that network manager? :)
<ivoks> i could test it with wifi :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-18
<ogra> ivoks, its not existing yet... thom works on it and will offer it if it works basically
* ajmitch_ will need to hunt down thom & work with him
<ogra> speaking f the devil
<ogra> of even
<ivoks> lol
<thom> urh?
<ivoks> thom we were talking
<ogra> thom, ajmitch_ was hunting you
<thom> ooook
<ivoks> and... we all agree u should give us results of network manager :)
<ajmitch_> thom: I was talking about my madness of helping with NetworkMagic
<thom> ajmitch_: hehe :-)
<thom> NM is waiting on new dbus and hal crack
<thom> (and my wrists are about to mutiny, so I'm going to bed)
<thom> night all
<ajmitch_> night thom
<ivoks> night
<ogra> night thom
<Fackamato> night thom
<ajmitch_> so I wonder if we should have another MOTU meeting at some point soon? dholbach was wanting this, yes?
<ogra> dunno if he was wanting it, but we should have one soon...
<ogra> lets get together after the CC meeting and make up a date for it
<ajmitch_> I think he was wanting to discuss the c++ transition
<ajmitch_> ok :)
<ajmitch_> CC meeting is 4am for me
<ogra> there is a lot of stuff to discuss..
<ogra> hmm
<ajmitch_> yep
<ogra> i only thought its the time where most people are araound anyway since they will show up at CC
<ajmitch_> I might try & get to CC
<ogra> beagle failed :/
<tseng> in what context?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
<ogra> but blam built !!
<ogra> on amd64
<ogra> :)
<tseng> ok
<ogra> meeeh
<ogra> dbus-mono failed on amd64
<ivoks> :)
<abarbaccia> hey would any of you guys be able to figure this out quick - i have a wlan card, its recognised (TI acx 111), detects the wireless network, but refuses to get a DHCP address
<ogra> bah, because gtk-sharp wasnt moved from the buildd to the archive when the build started ....
<ajmitch_> ogra: did my upload fail?
<ogra> ajmitch_, yep
<ajmitch_> :(
<ajmitch_> missing build-dep on zip, will add noew
<ogra> yep :)
<ivoks> abarbaccia signal level?
<abarbaccia> ivoks, full
<abarbaccia> in windows i connect no problem -
<abarbaccia> i think its the drivers for the card - acx drivers are still developmental
<ivoks> abarbaccia what dhcp client does it start?
<abarbaccia> might just pick up a new card
<abarbaccia> hold o
<abarbaccia> n
<abarbaccia> lemme check
* ajmitch_ uses pbuilder this time round..
<ivoks> wifi-radar (upstream) starts dhcpd
<ogra> heh
<ivoks> my deb starts dhclient3
<ivoks> which is default in ubuntu and debian
<abarbaccia> DHCPDISCOVER on wlan0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 6
<ivoks> so... it works
<abarbaccia> it'll do this to a bunch of different intervals but never obtain an address
<abarbaccia> No DHCPOFFERS received.
<abarbaccia> No working leases in persistent database - sleeping.
<abarbaccia> odd right?
<ivoks> don't know...
<abarbaccia> whatever - i will probably pick up a different card bc this one drops signal all the time too - which is annoying
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> mine too
<ajmitch_> you would have loved UDU then ;)
<ivoks> but i'm sure card isn't the problem
<ivoks> time for bed
<ivoks> bye
<ajmitch_> hmm, when mono moves to main, only ogra will currently be able to upload fixes (for now) :)
<abarbaccia> anybody here use wireless?
<abarbaccia> that could recommend a card
<ajmitch_> I use a dlink 650 something :)
<ajmitch_> uses madwifi driver, anyway
<ajmitch_> seems to be adequate
* tseng tests new beagle build
<ajmitch_> tseng: I'm just about to upload -0ubuntu4
<tseng> uh
<tseng> ok.
<ajmitch_> just added zip to B-D
<ajmitch_> unless there's any other changes that need done?
<tseng> make me the maintainer
<ajmitch_> ok
<tseng> and get rid of mint
<tseng> make -jit on amd64 also
<tseng> or just remove that arch bit
<schweeb> did the CC meeting already go down?
<ajmitch_> we still have unofficial sparc & hppa to contend with
<ajmitch_> schweeb: nope, just kickoff
<schweeb> k
<tseng> no we dont
<tseng> "unofficial"
<tseng> hppa has no hope
<schweeb> I haven't yet gotten sparc to run on anything
<schweeb> heh
<tseng> sparc can do whatever they want
<tseng> if they want to send me a patch.. fine
<schweeb> sparc pretty much just runs on whatever fabbione's hardware is, heh
<tseng> i dont have hardware or motivation to fix their shiz
<ajmitch_> debuilding
<tseng> sudo pbuilder debuild never works for me
<tseng> such shithouse
<ajmitch_> now we watch for buildd breakage
<ogra> tseng, ajmitch_ i care for dbus-mono if nobody else claims it...
<tseng> did you builder?
<tseng> ogra: its going away
<tseng> ogra: when mono is in main
<tseng> wont have to care very long
<ajmitch_> it'll be part of the dbus source package again
<tseng> i might de-/usr/share/dotnet it
<ogra> tseng, yep, but for now nothing depending on it builds on amd64
<tseng> in the mean time
<ajmitch_> go ahead
<tseng> ogra: uh, know why?
<ogra> it doesnt build
<tseng> i see
<tseng> go for it
<tseng> then ill get your source and de /usr/share/dotnet
<tseng> unless you want to tackle that
<ogra> nope i dont :)
<tseng> k
<ajmitch_> ogra: it was missing gtk-sharp on amd64
<ogra> ajmitch_, nope
<ogra> it was missing a build-dep on libglib-cil
<ogra> gtk-sharp is there
<ajmitch_> ok..
<ajmitch_> I was close :)
<ogra> argh
<ogra> and it still has dh_netdep etc...
<ajmitch_> clean that up a little, doesn't take much
<abarbaccia> hey all - if i wanted to test beagle, is there a package for it?  because i can't find one
<ogra> abarbaccia, its currenly building
<abarbaccia> nice
<ogra> which means it might still beake before it finishes...
<ogra> break
<abarbaccia> i think im going to start with testing thigns - i changed all my sources to breezy - anything else i should add
<ajmitch_> well the mono team seems to getting off to a good start
<ogra> yeah, lets make sure everything builds and move on to main
<tseng> dh_netdeps is gone
<tseng> change it to dh_clideps or dh_makeclilibs
* tseng makes another patch to blam
<tseng> the author has NFC what im talking about
<tseng> pretty rich
<abarbaccia> so how does this process usually work?
<abarbaccia> of development of universe
<ajmitch_> which process?
<ajmitch_> randomly & haphazardly, for the most part
<ajmitch_> new uploads are reviewed by other MOTUs
<ogra> tseng, lol
<abarbaccia> but how do we choose what "new uploads" to put in?
<tseng> new packages?
<ajmitch_> changes are uploaded by MOTUs, usually fixes to existing packages
<abarbaccia> okay - so fixes - updated packages and stuff
<ogra> abarbaccia, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/ExpandingUniverse
<abarbaccia> and its uploaded to the breezy universe
<abarbaccia> god damn you have a wiki for everything
<ajmitch_> yes, we don't upload to hoary or warty anymore
<ajmitch_> wikis are our life
<abarbaccia> i've never used a wiki
<abarbaccia> im actually fairly new to linux (< 1 year)
<abarbaccia> now do most of u use gnome or kde
<tseng> gnome, mostly
<tseng> there is kubuntu here also
<ogra> gnome only
<tseng> they wear kilts and stuff
<tseng> eat babies
<ogra> and sandals
<zul> mmmm....babies
<abarbaccia> lol
<abarbaccia> just what i though
<abarbaccia> t
<abarbaccia> i used to be a kde guy
<abarbaccia> then i grew a set
* ajmitch_ cleans up some c++ transition entries on the wiki..
<ajmitch_> I think we'll need to recheck that list for packages fixed in debian
<abarbaccia> think we can get a menu editor in breezy that actually works efficiently
<ogra> abarbaccia, gnome 2.12 will have a internal one
<abarbaccia> well at least someone is thinking -because these are just annoyances that should be handled by the gdm
<abarbaccia> and bluetooth is a big goal for breezy right?  because i know in hoary it didnt work but was working in warty
<ogra> yep, bluetooth and better laptop support
<abarbaccia> well, i think laptop support is decent - i got it fully installed on a buddies Dell 700m
<abarbaccia> wireless and all - a little ndiswrapper and screenresolution patch for the high def widescreen and it was cake
<abarbaccia> took about an install + 2 hours
<ogra> but suspend to ram is still an issue for example
<abarbaccia> hurm
<ajmitch_> mostly because ACPI is not fun to get working on every laptop
<ogra> abarbaccia, btw http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopMission
<ogra> ;)
<ajmitch_> ogra: good news - beagle built fine on i386 & powerpc
<ajmitch_> bad news is there's not amd64 build log yet
<ogra> ajmitch_, yep, i monitor it...
<ajmitch_> :)
<ogra> ajmitch_, it wont build
<ajmitch_> dep-wait?
<ogra> (no dbus yet)
<ajmitch_> ah
* ogra doubts evolution sharp is built for amd64 yet
<ogra> ajmitch_, dbus is there...
<ajmitch_> great
<ajmitch_> do you sit refreshing the page, or can you subscribe to changes?
<crimsun> you can sub if you wish
<ogra> ajmitch_, i refresh it from time to time... got it always open anywhere
<ajmitch_> ok
<ogra> changes doesnt show the build logs
* ogra will write a frameset that autorefreshes the logs constantly...
<ogra> or a cgi or whatever
<ajmitch_> and provide it as RSS :)
<ogra> yep
<ajmitch_> I should finish off the tool that shows differences between sid & breezy
<ajmitch_> and get it to grab debdiffs from MoM
* ajmitch_ sets his aims at > 500 uploads for breezy ;)
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch_> bbl :)
<IFR__> Evening all. It may seem inappropriate to ask here but all - I mean _ALL_ other avenues have failed me. I have 5.04 on a presario 4020 centrino with an Intel PRO/Wireless 2200 ipw2200 and I cannot seem to ever release a DHCP lease; sudo ifdown eth0 tells me eth0 is not configured; sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart or force-reload are ineffective and nothing short of reboot can get me back...
<IFR__> ...online. Can Anyone think of how I can address this? dhcpcd? pump? Smashing the notebook?
<tseng> my ipw2200 is eth1
<IFR__> I *swear* mine is eth0
<IFR__> though I can dump ifconfig/iwconfig or /etc/network/interfaces if you wish...
<IFR__> I think it's cause I selected it as my primary interface on install.
<IFR__> Could it be as simple as that? Changing primary to be the ethernet adapter and then starting wireless after boot?
<IFR__> But why wouldn't sudo ifdown eth0 recognize the configuration?
<IFR__> Oh well. Thanks any folks. . .
<IFR__> er...*anyway
<crimsun> IFR__: I have that problem occasionally
<crimsun> IFR__: what I do is manually edit /etc/network/interfaces
<crimsun> then sudo if{down,up} $iface
<crimsun> hopefully this will be resolved with Breezy
<ogra> tseng, uploading a fixed tomboy (added missing build-deps libgconf-cil and libglib-cil)
<tseng> k
<Burgundavia> I was just looking at the londondlaw failure. It is looking for python-dev <= 2.4, while the dev we have is 2.4.1
<ogra> tseng, what about gsf-sharp ? does our beagle use it ? if yes, i have a fixed package ready to upload...
<Burgundavia> would it be dangerous to flip that a higher number?
<schweeb> ogra: if it doesn't use it, it should be modified to... it requires you to add a cmd line switch during compilation though
<ogra> ok, then i'll upload it...
<ogra> yay, we got amd64 tomboy love :-D
<tseng> ogra: it does
<tseng> htf did i/jeff miss all this
<ogra> tseng, great... hopefully my timing is better this time and it gets to the archive before the next beagle tries to build
<ogra> beagle needs it at compile time iirc...
<tseng> yes, it does
<tseng> i added most of this stuff during hoary
<tseng> i didnt keep that package around
<ogra> its only missing on amd64 currently
* ajmitch_ returns (briefly)
<schweeb> hot
<schweeb> katie sent me the notification for gsf-sharp upload
<ogra> sure, its your package ;)
<schweeb> hehe
<schweeb> I'll update it from upstream sometime next week maybe
<jabra> well I guess I could recreate a new package for getwifi since it hasn't be reviewed
<ajmitch_> jabra: feel free to do so
<jabra> just added new features to it
<jabra> connection to networks with wep
<ajmitch_> useful - does it do WPA as well?
<jabra> I will add that next
<jabra> I replaced some of the deps like head and tail with awk one liners
<jabra> it is going to have wpasupplicant as a dep for wpa
<jabra> I plan on having a friend of mine test it
<jabra> the only thing that will prevent it from being ported to openbsd or freebsd or mac is /proc/net/wireless
<abarbaccia> hey all
<ajmitch_> hi
<abarbaccia> ajmitch_, wanna help me out with getting started on something
<abarbaccia> just teach me a little bit about how to be productive
<schweeb> there's no central todo list yet, so mostly it's fixing stuff that you find out wrong on your own ATM
<abarbaccia> alright, so lets say I realized that a program is broken - lets say best for example
<abarbaccia> how would i go about fixing it
<schweeb> well, to learn about packaging, read the Debian New Maintainer's Guide
<schweeb> to actually fix the package
<schweeb> download the source deb
<schweeb> make whatever changes are necessary
<schweeb> append to the changelog
<schweeb> rebuild the package
<schweeb> upload for review
<abarbaccia> hurm
<abarbaccia> i'll start with the guide
<ajmitch_> schweeb: thanks for answering :)
* ajmitch_ is at work, it's a slow day so fixing up some packages
<schweeb> heh
<schweeb> since I'm not packaging currently, it's the least I can do
<abarbaccia> so basically for this new release we are taking old packages, making packages of the new version, and uploading them - then anything that breaks has to be fixed and repackaged until its complete and starts all over again
<schweeb> it's generally a bad thing to start a package entirely from scratch
<schweeb> if that's what you're asking
<ajmitch_> usually new upstream versions flow through from debian anyway
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: hey dude
<Unfrgiven> hey all
<Unfrgiven> i had dholbach review one of my packages. he rejected the package on the basis that there were patches in the diff.gz. but all i've done is grabbed the package from debian and built it for ubuntu. so i never introduced the patches. now i don't mind putting the patches into debian/patches but that would make it hard to upgrade to the next debian version. whats the right thing to do here?
<schweeb> Unfrgiven: you could formally request a sync
<Unfrgiven> schweeb: how would i do that?
<schweeb> I think there's still a MOTUToSync page
<Unfrgiven> schweeb: thanks, i'll check it out
<schweeb> other than that, you could poke elmo... I'm not sure how to formal process really works
<Unfrgiven> schweeb: ok thanks.
* ajmitch_ returns from work
<ajmitch_> hi Unfrgiven
<|QuaD-_> how long after something finnishes building (confirmed from ~lamont/buildLogs) until it is in the repos?
<\sh> morning
<|QuaD-_> he \sh
<|QuaD-_> *hey
<ajmitch_> hello
<\sh> grmpf...si server is not running
<|QuaD-_> si server, not familiar with that
<\sh> digital tv stuff :( messy stuff ;)
<|QuaD-_> oh, heh, i don't watch tv, i dl it :)
<\sh> |QuaD-_: i'm not watching tv as well...i'm only working in this business :)
<|QuaD-_> haha, that also works
<tritium> |QuaD-_, go ahead and ask your question here.
<\sh> and here in germany u won't get any original series like the ones from CBS or ABC ;)
<|QuaD-_> tritium: i did above... i don't think anyone answered the general one
<|QuaD-_> tritium: i was just looking at beagle: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/b/beagle/0.0.9-0ubuntu4/beagle_0.0.9-0ubuntu4_20050510-0008-i386-successful   but when i browse http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/b/beagle/ there is nothign
<|QuaD-_> is there a reason for that?
<|QuaD-_> (that wasn't meant for tritium
<|QuaD-_> )
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch_> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey andrew
<dholbach> reviewing day at my end of the world today
<tritium> guten morgen!
<dholbach> hey michael
<ajmitch_> how are you today?
<tritium> hey daniel
<dholbach> still a bit sleepy, but i'll have some tea soon
* ajmitch_ is just hacking again :)
<\sh> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey \sh
* |QuaD-_ hopefully can help out and join the motu after graduation
<dholbach> |QuaD-_: oh nice to hear that... if you run into questions or anything - we'll be there
<|QuaD-_> dholbach: i have no idea anything about anything, but i have 1 final and my thesis left before i can start learning
<dholbach> |QuaD-_: same for me: 1 exam, 1 thesis :-)
<tritium> |QuaD-_, me too :-)
<dholbach> but that's how all of us started: no idea about anything, so don't worry :-)))
* \sh has no idea at all ;)
<|QuaD-_> dholbach: :) we will see what happens :)
<dholbach> as long as you have fun trying to achieve something in the ubuntu world... :-)
<|QuaD-_> dholbach: there are soo many things on my list of todo's once i graduate, i can't wait to start cracking them
<dholbach> ROCK :-)
<|QuaD-_> so does anyone know my question to the above question?
<|QuaD-_> as to why something built successfully but isn't in the repos?
<dholbach> if it is a NEW package, elmo (our ftpmaster) has to review it
<dholbach> same for <oldrelease>-{updates,security}
<|QuaD-_> dholbach: so it is awaiting review?
<dholbach> dunno which package you're talking about
<dholbach> i suppose i wasnt here, when you asked the question
<|QuaD-_> i was just looking at beagle:
<|QuaD-_>                  http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/b/beagle/0.0.9-0ubuntu4/beagle_0.0.9-0ubuntu4_20050510-0008-i386-successful   but when i browse
<|QuaD-_>                  http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/b/beagle/ there is nothign
<ajmitch_> that can happen sometimes
<ajmitch_> when the buildd is being fun
<dholbach> i think it will need a review, it's NEW, isnt it ajmitch_?
<ajmitch_> just be patient, lamont or elmo will kick it quickly enough
<|QuaD-_> ajmitch_: ahh, ok, i was just curious, trying to understand the system
<ajmitch_> dholbach: packages are only built after they pass NEW
<|QuaD-_> kinda like how i can't figure out how i was just looking at beagle:
<|QuaD-_>                  http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/b/beagle/0.0.9-0ubuntu4/beagle_0.0.9-0ubuntu4_20050510-0008-i386-successful   but when i browse
<|QuaD-_> ignore that paste
<|QuaD-_> i meant to say, kinda like how i am trying to figure out how something like http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/b/bhl/ has an "all.deb"
<|QuaD-_> don't different cpu's require individual compiles/
<ajmitch_> yes, they do
<|QuaD-_> so how does an all.deb work?
<ajmitch_> but some packages don't have cpu-dependant files
<dholbach> some packages (like perl/python scripts) don't need to be "compiled", they just pass the i386 buildd and are *all.deb
<|QuaD-_> ohhh, ok... that makes sense
<|QuaD-_> but anything that needs to be compiled, can't have an all.deb?
<dholbach> as ajmitch_ said: depends on architecture dependant stuff
<|QuaD-_> ok
<tritium> good night.  see you after a few hours sleep
<|QuaD-_> heh, i should probably study for my final tomorrow :*
<|QuaD-_> :(
<dholbach> sleep tight, michael
<tritium> thanks, dholbach -- see you at the CC mtg.
<tritium> (I assume)
<tritium> good luck, |QuaD-_
<|QuaD-_> thanks...ttyl
<dholbach> i'll be there
<ajmitch_> great, now I can compare source packages & their versions
<dholbach> cool :-)
<\sh> hmm...looking at ser to package it
<ajmitch_> Debian version of decompyle is newer : 2.3.2-2 vs 2.3-1ubuntu1
<ajmitch_> Debian version of bbdate is newer : 0.2.4-4.1 vs 0.2.4-4ubuntu1
<ajmitch_> yay, the script works
<ajmitch_> rather slowly, but it works ;)
<dholbach> i had the idea, that at the end of the release cycle, when we don't have autosyncs anymore, we could grep through the .gz-file of debian-changes-lists and look for "bugfix" and "security"
<\sh> well done
<\sh> ser is compiled and packaged ;)
<ajmitch_> dholbach: good idea
<\sh> now for lintian smoothness
<ajmitch_> hey charles
<chmj> hey Andrew
<chmj> hows is going dude?
<dholbach> hey charles... why did you change your nick? :-)
<dholbach> chmj: reviewing packages
<ajmitch_> going well, just planning a frantic few days of uploading ;)
<chmj> dholbach, issin't it obvious ?
<dholbach> erm
<dholbach> not to me
<dholbach> :-)
<chmj> ajmitch_, good stuff
<ajmitch_> dholbach: great, I'm going to try & handle merging changes we made in hoary back in now that I have the tools
<chmj> dholbach, d3vic3 is kinda l33t, everyone was telling me that so I decided to change it
<chmj> :-)
<dholbach> oh alright... i didn't complain :-)
<ajmitch_> it wasn't as bad as ajmitch is
<chmj> heh
<ajmitch_> dholbach: do you know if gedit-dev is in main or universe?
<dholbach> no idea
<ajmitch_> the binary at least appears to be in universe, with the source in main
<ajmitch_> which is rather odd
<ivoks> morning
<abarbaccia> hey all - you say morning - what time zone are you guys in
<abarbaccia> because its 3AM here in NYC
<\sh> here its 9:15am
<ivoks> same here... 9AM
<ivoks> abarbaccia then it's morning to you too :)
<abarbaccia> lol - except im going to sleep - not getting
<abarbaccia> up
<ajmitch_> 7:16 here in NZ
<ajmitch_> pm
<ivoks> we are from all over the world...
<ivoks> that's nice
<abarbaccia> as much as i want to be nocturnal, my body is rejecting the idea - see you all in the morning
<\sh> it is morning ;)
<abarbaccia_sleep> morning for me is past noon
<ivoks> when he comes back, we will be tierd
<ivoks> ready to sleep :)
<abarbaccia_sleep> we could work it out and have round the clock development
<abarbaccia_sleep> 247
<ivoks> Daniel I see you are doing lot of reviews
<ivoks> abarbaccia_sleep if you calculate that better
<ivoks> abarbaccia_sleep you would see that we could work 48 hours a day
<ivoks> all the work would be done in 10.05.2005.
<dholbach> ajmitch_: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&resolution=---&resolution=UNIVERSE
<dholbach> LOTS OF STUFF TO DO
<dholbach> lots of merging
<ajmitch_> dholbach: I know :)
<dholbach> i wish i had'nt worked on so many packages ;-)
<ajmitch_> it gives me a chance to get > 200 packages uploaded this time ;)
<siretart> dholbach: great link. thanks
<dholbach> siretart: the universe merging?
<siretart> dholbach: the link to the universe bugzilla bugs
<siretart> i've already spotted a few bugs for which I will prepare uploads
<dholbach> ROCK
<siretart> but perhaps not for tomorrow :(
<siretart> before..
<siretart> gotta go now.. bye!
<dholbach> bye siretart
* ajmitch_ wonders if he should fix seahorse, or get gedit-dev fixed
<ajmitch_> dholbach: mr GNOME guy, what do you think? gedit-dev needs a depend on libgnomeprintui2.2-dev :)
<ajmitch_> quiet day today - 4 hours between uploads, both of them mine
* ajmitch_ has already done nearly half the uploads he did in the hoary cycle ;)
<ivoks> busy guys :)
<Lathiat> heh
<ivoks> can I help? :)
<Lathiat> does anjuta work yet?
<Lathiat> i tried both v1 and v2 out a couple months ago
<Lathiat> all the indenting was broken
<Lathiat> or you couldnt even run the project within the ide
<Lathiat> :(
<ajmitch_> heh
<AstralJava> Lathiat: Anjuta works in this machine.
<AstralJava> Not too big projects though, I'm not very handy when it comes to C/C++. :D
<dholbach> ajmitch_: what's wrong with it?
<dholbach> ajmitch_: gedit-* that is
<ajmitch_> dholbach: missing depends - only shows up when you do pkg-config gedit-2.10 --modversion
<dholbach> ajmitch_: i suppose you better talk to seb :-)
<dholbach> since i'm no main uploader yet :-)
<ajmitch_> aha
<ajmitch_> I can work around it easily in seahorse, of course :)
<dholbach> tell him, he'll be delighted to hear :-)
<ajmitch_> hehe
* ajmitch_ wishes he'd remembered to ask about the business cards at UDU :)
<Unfrgiven> hey all
<Unfrgiven> how is everyone this evening?
<AstralJava> Can't tell yet. :)
<Unfrgiven> AstralJava: :)
* AstralJava lives in a time zone that says 11:21 a.m. :)
<dholbach> hey Unfrgiven
<AstralJava> But thanks anyway, fighting a flu.
<Unfrgiven> ah right... its 18:21 in my neck of the woods
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: hey hows it going
<Unfrgiven> im so hanging out for beagle to hit the ubuntu archive... been apt-get updating several times today... ever since i got the breezy-changes email!
<dholbach> fine... thanks, after i walked my dog a bit, i'll continue my reviewing day
* chmj thanks goodness he was on anti-biotics before UDU
<Unfrgiven> AstralJava: well i hope you get better soon
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: so what i wanted to ask was.. whats the status of the fast-user-switch-applet you packaged? has it been accepted?
<AstralJava> Unfrgiven: Thanks. And you?
<Treenaks> chmj: antibiotics don't work well against viral diseases
<Unfrgiven> AstralJava: im good... got home from work not long ago... now im just chilling for a bit... thought i'd take a look at some packages :)
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: i wanted to talk to you about it, if we can combine efforts and work on it together or if you want to take it
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: im happy either way. whichever you'd prefer
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: if we passed that stage, we need 3 reviews from MOTUs or maintainers and then we'll upload it
<chmj> Treenaks, well, I hang out with slanden and didn't get sick
<chmj> :p
<Treenaks> chmj: ok, that's impressive :)
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: ok... you can take it, try to incorporate whatever differs and i will give you the first review later on, ok?
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: ok cool :) i'll grab your packages to start with. is the there still a configure dependency on gdm?
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: nope
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: sweet! did they fix it in upstream or did you patch it?
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: debdiff is nice for comparing source packages
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: i talked to upstream and added configure options which finally worked
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: excellent. whats the best way to grab source packages and get a working area of it? thus far i've been untarring the orig tar ball then applying the diff.gz patch manually.
<dholbach> dpkg-source -x bla.dsc
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: kewl thanks.
<dholbach> sudo pbuilder build bla.dsc    to test-build it
<dholbach> but i guess you're familiar with that one already :-)
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: yep the pbuilder bit, im clear on :)
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: i also want to start packaging some of the stuff on universe candidates... its starting to blow out quite a bit....
<dholbach> yeah... good call
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: alright well im going to get to work. i should be on later but in case im not, ill be on tomorrow for sure (it 6:30 pm here).
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: have a nice day
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: you too :)
<dholbach> thanks :)
<dholbach> *grmbl*
<dholbach> tomboy is broken
<dholbach> it breaks the panel as well
<dholbach> and then there are two panels battling each other
<Lathiat> wfm(tm)
<dholbach> zombie panels
<Lathiat> the new icon sucks but
<dholbach> bbl
<ivoks> fuck!
<Lathiat> a duck!
<ivoks> man, i got falsificate money
<Lathiat> ivoks: hrm?
<ivoks> Lathiat i buyed mp3 player and got change back..
<Lathiat> :\ how much change?
<ivoks> didn't look at money...
<ivoks> 200hrk
<Lathiat> how much is that in us$ or something?
<ivoks> that's... cca 25 euros
<Lathiat> so $40 AUD
<Lathiat> at least it wasn't more :\
<ivoks> wouldn't know :)
<ivoks> problem is that i can't change it..
<Lathiat> go back and confront them
<Lathiat> take a few big large looking people... :)
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> ivoks: why not?
<\sh> report it
<ivoks> \sh i will report
<ivoks> but that's 200kn out of my pocket :(
<ivoks> damn...
<Lathiat> like i said
<Lathiat> thank god it wasnt more
<\sh> ivoks: hrk? what is it?
<ivoks> yes...
<ivoks> \sh hrvatska kuna - croatian kuna
<\sh> ivoks: and u bought the mp3 player in a normal store? or more like those ones named in germany as "import and export" shops? ,-)
<ivoks> \sh METRO
<\sh> ivoks: report it...they have to be punished ;)
<ivoks> \sh I'm sure you are familliar with METRO :)
<\sh> ivoks: yes
<\sh> mafia ;)
<ivoks> eh....
<ivoks> i'll call them
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> it's snowing :)
<AstralJava> ivoks: In Croatia? Weird. :)
<ivoks> you can see this only in croatia... on sea side people are swimming, and 20km from there it's snowing :)
<AstralJava> ivoks: Do you live by the mountains?
<ivoks> AstralJava no, but in mountains is snowing :)
<AstralJava> Oh okay. :)
<dholbach> who of you was from detroit?
* AstralJava is glad the snow here is finally all melt
<dholbach> are they really planning a tax on hamburgers?
* ivoks loves snow :)
<ivoks> snowboarding is so fun...
<koke> dholbach: I think whiprush was from detroit
<dholbach> koke: i'll ask him later on :-)
<AstralJava> I do like snow too, but only when it's winter. :)
* Lathiat wonders why bzflag hasn't been synced from debian yet and if he can apply some love to make it so
<Lathiat> cus its  a major version upgrade and the current version is useless
<Burgundavia> can someone tell me why glabels on ubuntu and debian are so different in terms of deps?
<Burgundavia> it was very odd
<dholbach> Lathiat: might be, because there are ubuntu-specific changes which have yet to be merged
<Lathiat> apparentlynot
<Lathiat> the changelog doesnt say so anyway
<dholbach> Burgundavia: could you paste me the difference in a query?
<dholbach> Lathiat: Version: 1.10.6.20040516ubuntu1
<dholbach> this is the current in ubuntu
<dholbach> which is recent in debian?
<Lathiat> ohoh
<Lathiat> uh
<Lathiat> 2.somethign
<Lathiat> in unstable
<dholbach> there you go :-)
<Lathiat> let me check
<Lathiat> dholbach: whats the problem?
<Lathiat> the ubuntu1
<Lathiat> or the version?
<dholbach> no the version is not the problem, it just indicates there were ubuntuspecific changes
<dholbach> after breezy was opened we autosynced a lot of stuff
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> i wonder why there was no changelog.Debian.gz entry?
<dholbach> now quite a lot of packages still have to be re-merged
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> i suck
<Lathiat> im looking at the changleog for the newer version
<|QuaD-_> heh, i get a kick everytime i see packages like this trying to get synced: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/2005-May/004409.html
<Lathiat> dholbach: so if i took care of those changes it could be synced?
<Lathiat> |QuaD-_: heh
<dholbach> Lathiat: we have to manually merge them, if you want to take care of those, i'd highly appreciate it
<Lathiat> right, i'd be more than happy to
* |QuaD-_ tried sudo apt-get install hurd
<|QuaD-_> it didn't work
<|QuaD-_> hehe
<Lathiat> where do i get started. :)
<dholbach> Lathiat: the changes should be on https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&resolution=---&resolution=UNIVERSE
<Lathiat> just fixing up the package?
<Lathiat> ahh
<Lathiat> changes were simply some build-depends
<dholbach> Lathiat: be sure to build it in a pbuilder before :-)
<Lathiat> before what?
<dholbach> before you let us review and upload it :-)
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> of course
<dholbach> merci beaucoup
<Lathiat> thanks
<Lathiat> dholbach: is there some evil you can do to get deboostrap to try find files form your /var/cache/apt/archives to save downloading them again? (other than run a local mirror/apt proxy)
<dholbach> Lathiat: no idea
* ajmitch_ is still fetching patches from MoM to do merging love :)
<dholbach> ivoks: i move wifi-radar from MOTUToReview to MOTUNewPackages
<Lathiat> oh thanks
<dholbach> ajmitch_: ROCK
<Lathiat> ok
<Nafallo> hi all
<Lathiat> Do you guys nee dpeople to look after merging these thigns in general?
<ivoks> dholbach ok, it is there allready :)
<dholbach> oh i see
<ajmitch_> dholbach: I could probably upload 20 or so tonight if I have the bandwidth :)
<dholbach> removing it then :-)
<Lathiat> (cus i'd like to get involved)
<dholbach> Lathiat: yes, absolutely
<ajmitch_> Lathiat: you'd take away my reason for existence! ;)
<Lathiat> is it more looking after specific m packages, or just tending to random packages that need tending that others arent taking care of?
<Lathiat> ajmitch_: heh
<ajmitch_> looking after random packages
<ajmitch_> which is always a problem when you've got 15000 or so to watch
<Lathiat> yarr
<Lathiat> a base ubuntu install is rather small
<Lathiat> didnt take long to download
<Lathiat> i guess i have got 1.5mbit now
<Lathiat> had 512kbit before
<ajmitch_> yes, but there's plenty of broken packages that we'll need to fix
<ajmitch_> simple merging is trivial
<dholbach> Lathiat: we have two things in mind atm: 1) forming teams which take care of specific things they like to change, and 2) having universe in a generally good shape
<ajmitch_> especially with MoM - often just signing the current diff.gz it spits out
<Lathiat> hmm
<Lathiat> pbuilder failed to create
<ajmitch_> Lathiat: how good are your C++ sk1llz? ;)
<Lathiat> errors with gcc/g++/cpp deps
<Lathiat> ajmitch_: uh
<Lathiat> im ok with C
<Lathiat> and know C++ but dont do alot of classes, templates, etc...
<dholbach> Lathiat: build a hoary chroot and upgrade to breezy
<ajmitch_> I know you do python, I've been to your talks at LCA before ;)
<Lathiat> dholbach: ok
<Lathiat> ajmitch_: ah :)
<Lathiat> yeh i do C and python mainly
* ajmitch_ went to the ipv6 miniconf last year
<Lathiat> and uh, i've written two java programs now :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch_: rock
<Lathiat> and i alreayd hate java
<Lathiat> doesnt take long
<ajmitch_> haha
<ajmitch_> yeah
<ajmitch_> starting a j2me project tomorrow at uni, in the telecommunications class
<Lathiat> most of my hacking has been related to gtk or network code in C
<Lathiat> multicast sockets that do ipv4 and ipv6 in C are fun!
* Lathiat coughs
<Lathiat> especially when no one else has done them properly
<Lathiat> and the apis suck a bit
<Lathiat> i should write some documentation now we figured all that out
<Lathiat> ajmitch_: so yeh, what di dyou have in mind specifically?
<dholbach> hey herzi
<ajmitch_> Lathiat: wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCxxTransition
<ajmitch_> a few hundred packages that need loving
<herzi> hey
<Lathiat> oh i looked at that
<ajmitch_> I've started looking at patches & trying to get them to apply :)
<dholbach> once the c++ big bang has taken place
<Lathiat> i should be able to help with that
<Lathiat> looks like alot of the same FTBFS
<ajmitch_> dholbach: word is that it'll be Real Soon Now, so we have to prepare
<Lathiat> so once we figure out each one should be able to apply to lots
<herzi> weltuntergangs-wetter
<dholbach> herzi: yes :-)
<ajmitch_> Lathiat: you hope - most c++ code will be broken in subtly different ways
<Lathiat> ajmitch_: yeh im sure it is heh
<Lathiat> can you say, i hate gcc versions
<Lathiat> and bad coders :)
<ajmitch_> I'm not an optimist about this transition - it'll be a long fight :)
<dholbach> i am... it will be BIG FUN :-)
<dholbach> and we really have to thank the debian guys who already wrote 24967246 patches
* ajmitch_ envisions dholbach bouncing around a mental asylum :)
<ajmitch_> dholbach: the first package I tried patching today didn't apply cleanly
<Lathiat> blah i definately need an apt cache
<ajmitch_> which is a worry :)
<Lathiat> perhaps just squid
<ajmitch_> Lathiat: I'm on 256Kbps
<Lathiat> that sucks
<Lathiat> i was on 28.8 up until a year ago
<Lathiat> then no net for 6months
<Lathiat> then went 256, 512, 1500 in 2 month incrememnts
<ajmitch_> not bad
<ajmitch_> I could go to 2Mbps, but only a 10GB cap
<Lathiat> now that i can afford it
<ajmitch_> 64Kbps after that
<Lathiat> altho i only have 5GB/5GB quota
<Lathiat> and i ate all my peak quota acccidentally until th een do fth emonth
<ajmitch_> bbiab, dinner time ;)
<Lathiat> fortunately we have a local exchange
<Lathiat> which means traffic to most of perth is free adn unmetered
<Lathiat> so im proxy off another box
<Lathiat> for we at least
<dholbach> \sh: ping
<\sh> dholbach: pong
<dholbach> \sh: i'm just having a look at conglomerate
<dholbach> i can't see your patch in 00list
<\sh> woot...moment
<dholbach> i don't quite understand the debdiff :-)
<dholbach> ah moment, wait
<\sh> remove-gnome-entry-from-desktop.dpatch
<\sh> last one
<dholbach> sorry, nevermind what i said
<dholbach> unpacked the wrong source package
<dholbach> i'll have another look :-)
<\sh> dholbach: you're welcome :)
<\sh> hmm...there is a nice pitfall with kde and dchroot breezy ;)
<ogra> meh, the configure scripts for the mono stuff are so wrong
<\sh> after starting one kde app, all sessions are belonging to the breezy chroot after that
<ogra> morning btw
<dholbach> hey ogra
<\sh> hoi ogra
<\sh> btw...i fixed my si server ;)
<ogra> great to hear
<\sh> yeah...kicked the bloody machine with memtest
<\sh> and? what was the result...memory error
<dholbach> f-spot 0.0.13 is out
<dholbach> should work with mono 1.1.7
* ogra uploads a new gmime for beagle on amd64
<ogra> dholbach, thats our release, tseng talked to larry for it :)
<dholbach> *ROCK*
<dholbach> (it doesnt say so in the release notes ;-))
<ogra> heh
<ogra> would be fully if novell employees would mention us in their changelog
<dholbach> \sh: did you tell elmo to whitelist your mail adress?
<ogra> funny even
<dholbach> ogra: it's all about love - they really should
<ogra> heh
<ogra> just because tseng asked when will there be a release that builds with 1.1.7 ? heh
* ogra suspects dholbach wants something like   * for tseng, love larry
<\sh> dholbach: aehm...no..for what?
<dholbach> :-)
<Lathiat> haha
<dholbach> \sh: so you get a notification mail when your package gets uploaded to the buildd
<\sh> dholbach: officially u have to upload ;)
<ogra> \sh, else elmo has to deal with it... so just do it ;)
<\sh> i can see it only on breezy-changes ;)
<\sh> elmo...ok
<dholbach> \sh: i know i have to upload :-)
<ogra> \sh, whitelisting is the first technical step to become a motu.... mail to the whitelist@ address
<dholbach>  upload@ubuntulinux.org
<ogra> dholbach, btw, did you see that amd64 has tomboy love ?
<dholbach> ogra: did you see, what i said about it?
<dholbach> dholbach *grmbl*
<dholbach> dholbach tomboy is broken
<dholbach> dholbach it breaks the panel as well
<dholbach> dholbach and then there are two panels battling each other
<ogra> huh ?
<ogra> but you did start it from the "add applet" dialog, not from the commandline i assume
<dholbach> yes
<ogra> strange
<ogra> works fine here, since more then 5 days...
<\sh> whitelist@ubuntulinux.com?
<dholbach> .org
<ogra> \sh, i think i'm not up to date.... rather what dholbach said...
<\sh> the wiki title function must be fixed...i know that i have a bookmark to this page...but where is it
<dholbach> wiki/Uploads says it
<ogra> yep
<tseng> hi
<dholbach> hey tseng
<ogra> <-- to lazy to look it up....
<dholbach> ogra: we all know
<thom> tomboy appears to be missing a dep on libdbus-cil
<dholbach> ;-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> thom, oh...
<ogra> thom, i'll fix it
<tseng> thom: dh_clideps is failing to get dbus
<dholbach> and pbuilder didnt complain?
<ogra> nope
<tseng> dholbach: runtime
<thom> actually, it's missing one on libgnome-cil too
<\sh> i wrote a mail to this upload@ address
<ogra> dholbach, as i said the configure scripts are crack.... they dont check all deps...
<thom> i suspect dh_clibdeps is hosed :-)
<dholbach> thank god thom is a MOTU :-)
<ogra> thom, yep
<\sh> To:
<\sh> upload@ubuntulinux.org
<\sh>   Date:
<\sh> 12.04.2005 15:51
<thom> dholbach: hahah
<\sh> ogra told me to ask if you can add sh@sourcecode.de to whitelist address for
<\sh> breezy-changes.
<\sh> that was the content
<dholbach> ah ok
<ogra> ok
<thom> so far, libdbus-cil, libgnome-cil, libglib-cil
<\sh> I did my duties :)
<\sh> but i don't know if it's whitelisted now or not :)
<tseng> hm tomboy works out of the box on x86
<thom> (and libgtk-cil)
<ogra> thom, rm
<tseng> on a clean breezy install
<ogra> hrm
<tseng> well
<tseng> i did apt-get install muine tomboy blam
<tseng> muine was missing libdbus-cil and blam had that other bug
<thom> libgconf-cil
<ogra> tseng, but dh_clidep _is_ hosed, he's right
<tseng> i know it is
<ogra> i'll add the depends manually for now, we can revert that later
<tseng> it sounds not working at all on amd64 or something
<ogra> worksforme....
<ogra> but i got the deps installed anyway
<dholbach> trying again
<thom> after all that, it works great
<dholbach> yes, works now
<dholbach> guys... change the Depends NOW! :-)
<ogra> already pbuilding
<tseng> dholbach: erm, really need to figure out why dh_clideps doesnt work
<thom> ogra: you got all the deps, right? :-)  libdbus-cil libgnome-cil libglib-cil libgtk-cil libgconf-cil
<dholbach> could someone of you try "preferences" of tomboy
<tseng> oh I have an idea
<dholbach> when i choose it, it breaks
<thom> dholbach: same
<Lathiat> yeh so does mine
<tseng> i wonder if he changed the variable name to ${cli:Depends}
<dholbach> hrmhrmhrmhrmhrmhrm
<ogra> thom, a thanks, missed gconf
<tseng> that would do it
<dholbach> was tomboy a NEW package?
<tseng> erm, for warty
<ogra> dholbach, nope
<thom> dholbach: oooh, fun. it works as a notification icon (ie, if i run tomboy on the command line) but not if it's an applet
<dholbach> ah ok
<tseng> ogra: can you check if i still have net:Depends and it wants cli:Depends?
<ogra> it has cli depends
<tseng> hm hm
<tseng> well i need to double check that for everything now that I think of it
<ogra> tseng, it doesnt build if it has the netde
<ogra> p
<ogra> no, lets just fix dh_clidep
<tseng> yes
<ogra> hmm, is it broken on all arches ?
<tseng> at least partly
<tseng> for one its possibly for mono to load things that monodis doesnt pick up on
<dholbach> wow, i never saw that many compiler warnings as in conglomerate
<tseng> let's see how f-spot goes
<\sh> dholbach: it's shitty
<dholbach> mlview doesn't look as fancy, but i like it better :-)
<Burgundavia> dholbach, the worst part is that it is a shitty app too
<\sh> btw...pro-linux has a good article about ubuntu and skolelinux
<\sh> dholbach: well...xemacs is my choice ;)
<dholbach> *GRA* debuild AGAIN hangs at   " fakeroot debian/rules clean"
* dholbach cries bitter tears
<ogra> fakeroot isd broken
<ogra> dholbach, is it in your pbuilder ?
<dholbach> no, when i try to build a signed source package
<ogra> dholbach, or the manual debuild ?
<ogra> ok...
<ogra> sudo update-alternatives fakeroot
<ogra> switch to tcp
<ogra> but dont forget to switch back if its fixed ;)
<ogra> err
<ajmitch_> back :)
<ogra> sudo update-alternatives --config fakeroot
<dholbach> charming
<\sh> i don't understand this anymore
<\sh> when I created this conglomerate package, everything worked fine...right now i can't even go after the first stage of debuild
<ajmitch_> \sh: make clean probably doesn't clean very well
<dholbach> \sh: uploaded
<\sh> ajmitch_: that was it
<\sh> dholbach: thx
<dholbach> \sh: our mysql-admin is a newer version already
<dholbach> \sh: you may want to adapt your changes to the newer one
<\sh> dholbach: what? it was directly from debian-sid ;)
<\sh> dholbach: sure
<ajmitch_> \sh: sorry, you have to get with the times ;)
<\sh> ajmitch_: it was new when I created the patchset ;)
<Lathiat> how do you update your pbuilder to breezy
<Lathiat> manually or is there a pbuilder magic command
<tseng> edit his sources.list
<\sh> Lathiat: i have it running in a chroot env ;)
<tseng> then pbuilder update --override-config
<dholbach> should be on wiki/PbuilderHowto
<Lathiat> excuse the pbuilder newb
<Lathiat> ah ok, didnt know that was there
* tseng pbuilds f-spot
<dholbach> \sh: shermann@localhost.localdomain :-)
<Lathiat> dholbach: thanks
<Lathiat> dholbach: has all the magic. :)
<tseng> if there are more regressions in Depends: on this
<tseng> mail me or upload the fix
<Lathiat> now if i can just get apt-cacher ot actually work
<\sh> dholbach: in the patchset ;)
<\sh> dholbach: I saw this  happen...i thought I fixed it
<dholbach> \sh: you should have these in .bashrc  :  export DEBFULLNAME='Stephan Hermann'  export DEBEMAIL='dh@sourcecode.net'
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> \sh: don't worry, i fix them
<ajmitch_> dholbach: you rock! ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch_: thanks for that assessment, mr. mitchell :-)
<ajmitch_> hehe
* ajmitch_ groans at a >400K diff to review
<ajmitch_> I think I can trust it to be ok
<\sh> dholbach: i added the stuff now ;)
<ajmitch_> the last 2 to touch it were a daniel holbach & a stephan hermann
<Lathiat> hmm
<Lathiat> i have no references to hoary in /etc/pbbu*
<dholbach> ajmitch_: which package?
<ajmitch_> ethereal
<ajmitch_> MoM says the merge is clean, so I'm building & testing
<dholbach> oh... might have been some auto* update because of some changed build-depends?
<ajmitch_> probably
<ajmitch_> plus gcc 4.0 fixes
<dholbach> \sh: did you test the build in pbuilder?
<dholbach> \sh: looking at mysql-query-browser now
<Lathiat> is there someone i can get pbuilder to pass apt options?
<Lathiat> "E: There ar eproblems and -y was used without --force-yes"
<dholbach> \sh: you're running autogen in the build which is BAD itself, but then you don't build-dep on auto* which will just break
<ajmitch_> Lathiat: ah, gnupg auth problems
<Lathiat> ajmitch_: yarr
<ajmitch_> pbuilder howto has tips on solving that
<Lathiat> perhaps is hould install gnupg in the chroto
<Lathiat> ok
<Lathiat> i'll read it
<Lathiat> which howto?
<dholbach> PbuilderHowto
<tseng> PbuilderHowto? :P
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com
<Lathiat> as in the wiki?
<Lathiat> oh, there it is
<Lathiat> i missed that
* ajmitch_ should remember to write things as WikiWords :)
<dholbach> again? ;-p
<Lathiat> no i just skipped over the hoary part cus i already had one.. :)
<Lathiat> which was stupid :)
<dholbach> \sh: please apply the changed auto*-stuff as a dpatch
<dholbach> \sh: i know it's NOT nice, but unless upstream has a new version, the only way
<tseng> wtf
<ogra> tseng, ?
<tseng> my pbuilder cant build f-spot
<ogra> oops
<tseng> cant find .pc for gtk-sharp
<ogra> why ?
<dholbach> wrong build-depends?
<ogra> heh, as i said before, the configure scripts are crack
<ajmitch_> check that it's not another hidden dependency
<tseng> i added it hard to build-deps
<ogra> oh
<ogra> tseng, all -cil libs ??
<ajmitch_> like I had with seahorse - it needed gedit 2.10, which in turn depended on something else
<tseng> not "all"
<tseng> gar its out again
<ogra> configure doesnt know they are divided it seems...
<tseng> trying again
<dholbach> well, fix configure.ac then :-)
<Lathiat> i just need a script to sync /var/cache/apt/archives with /var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache
<Lathiat> that should do the trick
<ogra> dholbach, first we'll have to fix dh_clideps
<ogra> else all mono apps are broken dependencywise
<tseng> yes.
<dholbach> who is VirgilNisly?
<ogra> not me
<ogra> i think
<ogra> tseng, i think i got the bug
<ogra> looks like the crators of cli-common just copied dh_shlibdeps .... and didnt change /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.shlibs to /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.clilibs
<ogra> hm, no
<dholbach> koke: where is python-bazaar_*.orig.tar.gz?
<koke> err, let me see
<koke> ouch!
<tseng> well i think my problem right now is the deps for libgnome-cil are fucke dup
<tseng> and i have to add them all
<tseng> i guess i should be anyway
<ogra> tseng, for now...
<ogra> tseng, i'm looking at cli-common....
<tseng> rock on
<tseng> i am leaving for work soon
<ogra> k
<tseng> bye.
<ogra> ciao
<dholbach> bye tseng
<koke> dholbach: http://amedias.org/~koke/debian/hoary/
<koke> but I'll have to try it again
<dholbach> do that and tell me :-)
<schweeb> ugh
<|QuaD-_> debian/hoary.. lol, are we going to have ubuntu sarge next?
<schweeb> morning time is the devil
<dholbach> hey schweeb
<|QuaD-_> :)
<Lathiat> ok ot pbuilder going
* Lathiat tests builds
<dholbach> |QuaD-_: look at this
<dholbach> daniel@bert:~$ apt-cache show login | grep Version
<dholbach> Version: 1:4.0.3-31sarge3ubuntu2
<dholbach> :-)
<schweeb> now, time to go to work, later
<dholbach> bye schweeb, have a nice day
<koke> hmmm, do we want a python2.3-bazaar and python2.4-bazaar?
<schweeb> it'll take a lot of aspirin for that to occur at this point :p
<|QuaD-_> dholbach: i noticed a few packets like that on greezy changes a few days ago
<dholbach> koke: if possible
<|QuaD-_> dholbach: i was confused at first, then figured must be the same maintainter
<dholbach> greezy? like in GreezyGiraffe?
<koke> hmmm, from https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2511662
<koke> Most python packages are architecture all, and then don't need being build for multiple python versions ; your package should then be called 'python-<foo>' and CDBS would automatically use the current Debian python version to build it.
<koke> pybaz is _all, but it installs into /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages
<koke> two different packages should not be necessary
<ajmitch_> night all
<dholbach> bye ajmitch_
<Lathiat> ug c++
<Lathiat> takes so long to build
<Lathiat> someone give me a quad opteron or something :)
<dholbach> someone give Lathiat a hanky :-)
<Lathiat> dholbach: do you remember the reason you had to add those GL deps in bzf?
<Lathiat> it seems to build without them, but the way its depended on in the new debian is a little different so
<Lathiat> (build-deps)
<dholbach> Lathiat: because we have x.org and the libraries are split in a new way
<Lathiat> and whats with libxxf86vm ?
<dholbach> same
<dholbach> Lathiat: maybe it was needed on only one of the architectures
<Lathiat> yeh thats what im thinking
<Lathiat> hence i was asking
<Lathiat> i'll just put it back in
<dholbach> crimsun: i reviewed jackbeat, have quite some comments on MOTUNewPackages for it now
<Lathiat> the GL deps were fixed upstream, the xxf86vm wasnt
<|QuaD-_> just installed beagle, using the debian packages just put on, it can't start the daemon
<ogra> damned
<Lathiat> |QuaD-_: maybe you dont have inotify on?
<|QuaD-_> Lathiat: hmmm, i am using a stock kernel, but i am geting a dbus warning in best
<ogra> |QuaD-_, why dont you use the ubuntu package ?
<|QuaD-_> blah, i meant ubuntu
<Lathiat> well, the stock kernel doesnt have inotify
<|QuaD-_> Lathiat: i have to compile my own?
<|QuaD-_> uname -r
<|QuaD-_> 2.6.10-5-686
<ogra> |QuaD-_, there is a lot broken in mono currently..... its very likely that the dependencys are missing in the package
<Lathiat> thats not the reason its broken tho
<Lathiat> Unhandled Exception: System.DllNotFoundException: libMonoPosixHelper.so
<ogra> it should work if you do: sudo apt-get build-dep beagle
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> could not be satisfied
<ogra> (pulls in some unnecessary stuff though)
<ogra> Lathiat, what is missing ?
<Lathiat> trying to figure that out
<koke> dholbach: python-bazaar works, but it's only for python 2.4
<koke> I don't like the idea of making two different packages with the same files
<koke> any better idea?
<Lathiat> koke: the files arent the same
<dholbach> koke: would you please ask chmj and doko how to proceed?
<Lathiat> you have /usr/lib/python2.3 and /usr/lib/python2.3
<Lathiat> 2.4 on the last one
<Lathiat> and probably a common package with the common files
<Lathiat> now this is interesting
<koke> lamont: the paths are different but the files are the same
<|QuaD-_> ogra: i did a build dep and i believe its working
<ogra> ah, great
<|QuaD-_> ogra: why doesn't it do it automatically with apt-get install?
<ogra> |QuaD-_, which arch is that ?
<|QuaD-_> i386
<doko> Lathiat: how do you make sure, that you have the correct .pyc files are generated from the common package?
<Lathiat> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<Lathiat>   mozilla-firefox-dev: Depends: mozilla-firefox (= 1.0.2-0ubuntu5) but 1.0.3-2~5.04ubp1+1.0.2-0ubuntu5 is to be installed
<Lathiat> thats why build-dep doesnt work
<|QuaD-_> Lathiat: it worked when i tried it
<Lathiat> doko: you do it from the versioned package ?
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> i have some backports shit
<Lathiat> leftover
<ogra> |QuaD-_, because the tool that writes the dependencys is broken
<Lathiat> from when i was looking at their stuff
<koke> Lathiat: a 'grep -r "python2\.4" /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pybaz/*.py' is empty
<Lathiat> koke: whats that got to do with anything?
<|QuaD-_> ogra: good reason
<koke> Lathiat: I'd bet if I copy those files to /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/pybaz/, it'd work
<doko> Lathiat: yes, we'll address this for breezy, but please do the versioned packages now, the duplicated files are not a problem, if built from the same source
<|QuaD-_> i wonder how long beagle will take to indes
<|QuaD-_> *index
* ogra guesses it will break before its finished
<|QuaD-_> ogra: why?
<ogra> |QuaD-_, i would have fixed it if i knew why ;)
<|QuaD-_> ogra: lol.... :) what happens exactly?
<ogra> it did it for me the last 3 days.... after indexind about 1h
<|QuaD-_> what can i be looking forward to?
<ogra> it just stops indexing or doesnt respond anymore to the client....
<ogra> for the latter i suspect dbus, which isnt up to date yet
<|QuaD-_> heh, so my 120gig hdd probably will make it to gig2
<ogra> so this version wont work reliable until daniels has dbus ready for us
<|QuaD-_> ohhh, ok
<|QuaD-_> its still better than nothing
<ogra> its very nice to look at and to do some testing....
<|QuaD-_> though i don't think a lot of it is working correctly... i just typed a search word in, left best open, went to a gaim im and typed that word in and sent the im
<|QuaD-_> it never found it
<|QuaD-_> ogra: yeah
<ogra> but dont expect miracles, a lot is still missing and as long as the package building tools are broken it will be bad...
<thom> Lathiat: if you use ubp, you lose
<|QuaD-_> ogra: how do i get an inotify enabled kernel?
<dholbach> reviewing is fun
<Lathiat> thom: nah i was just looking at their shit
<Lathiat> forgot about it
<ogra> thom, the prob seems to be additionally in dpkg-gencontrol (it doesnt know the clilibs file) do you think its appropriate to let dh_clideps spit aou a shlibs file for now to make it work ? or is that to odd ?
<ogra> s/aou/out
<|QuaD-_> beagle just indexed my email
<|QuaD-_> lol
<Lathiat> so, whats standard to append to the change
<Lathiat> *changelog
<ogra> |QuaD-_, you casn see the results grow if you do a search ;)
<ogra> Lathiat, whatever dch appends ;)
<|QuaD-_> ogra: thats how i noticed
<|QuaD-_> ogra: how else could i figure out what it has indexed?
<Lathiat> ogra: yeh but shouuld i add remerged ubuntu changes or something
<\sh> dholbach: what did u say...just had supper
<Lathiat> and mention the changes no longer needed?
<ogra> |QuaD-_, by lookig at the terminal where you started beagled -fg ;)
<ogra> Lathiat, sounds descriptive....
<dholbach> \sh: can't you please scroll back? :-)
<|QuaD-_> ogra: i let best do it for me :)
<|QuaD-_> once it craps out, i will do it that way
<ogra> |QuaD-_, then you wont see when it fails ;)
<koke> dholbach: python-bazaar is ready :D
<|QuaD-_> ogra: how is the easiest way to kill beagle then?
<|QuaD-_> *beagled?
<ogra> look in your processlist (ps ax) and kill the process number
<|QuaD-_> beagled -fg
<|QuaD-_> Ignoring unknown argument '-fg'
<Lathiat> |QuaD-_: cat ~/.xsession-errors
<\sh> [12:38]  <dholbach> \sh: please apply the changed auto*-stuff as a dpatch
<dholbach> yes
<\sh> dholbach: but i don't know the context ;)
<thom> ogra: hrrrrm; i don't think it should spit out a shlibs file; better to figure out why it's not passing the right arguments to get the clilibs file picked up
<dholbach> mysql-query-browser
<dholbach> <dholbach> \sh: you're running autogen in the build which is BAD itself, but then you don't build-dep on auto* which will just break
<|QuaD-_> Lathiat: a bunch of "** (gnome-cups-icon:25562): WARNING **: failed request with status 1030" but thats it
<Lathiat> oh
<ogra> thom, ah, ok, there are arguments for that... man dpkg-gencontrol wasnt to helpful....
<Lathiat> my beagle errors showed up in that
<koke> dholbach: digikam is in debian
<Lathiat> ls
<|QuaD-_> Lathiat: sorry that was for ogra
<\sh> dholbach: oh :) it wasn't my fault...it's not from me ;) but I will fix it
<dholbach> koke: i noticed
<koke> and maybe kio-locate too :D
<dholbach> \sh: your patch runs autogen
<ogra> |QuaD-_, two dashes ;)
<\sh> oh no..it's mine ;)
<ogra> thom, nm, i'm to blind
<|QuaD-_> ogra: this might get addigting
<|QuaD-_> watching it
<ogra> heh
<\sh> dholbach: i see a problem there
<\sh> dholbach: check 03-gcc4-patch
<\sh> aeh 03-gcc4.dpatch
<|QuaD-_> so what exactly does evolution sharp do???
<|QuaD-_> beagle wants it, but doesn't need it
<\sh> oh no I see a solution
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> dholbach: what do u think, applying the patch, run automake again and then diff?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> start dpatch-edit-patch <something>
<dholbach> make necessary changes
<dholbach> rerun autogen
<dholbach> ctrl-d
<|QuaD-_> are things like evolution support, msoffice support, gstreamer support, ephiphany support, and firefox support going to be brought to ubuntu?
<|QuaD-_> or are we going to have to do that ourselves
<bradb> dholbach: hi
<bradb> hey ogra
<bradb> where are we going to have the MOTU meeting on thursday, btw?
<ogra> here ? or #ubuntu-meeting
<thom> #ubuntu-meeting would be better
<bradb> ok, we'll do it in #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra> fine
<thom> |QuaD-_: for .NET? ffox/ephy should happen soonish
<|QuaD-_> thom: i just found support for the others
<ogra> ff is already in the beagle package
<|QuaD-_> figured out how to do it
<thom> ogra: including the extensions for firefox?
<ogra> beagle.xpi, yes
<thom> ah
<|QuaD-_> what exactly does the ff extension do anyways?
<dholbach> hey bradb, yes #u-meeting is better
<thom> oh, not mozilla-sharp
<ogra> nope, its generated from the beagle source....
<Amaranth> |QuaD-_: as far as i can tell it just lets you choose to not index certain domains
<ogra> -
<\sh> dholbach: i will put new files on my webpage in 15 minutes.after the build has completed
<\sh> (mysql-query-browser)
<thom> beagle will index your history and cache
<|QuaD-_> Amaranth: haha... so doesn't index things like porn :)
<thom> from firefox/mozilla
<Amaranth> thom: the extension makes it do that?
<|QuaD-_> thom: why wouldn't it do that anyways?
<dholbach> \sh: take your time
<ogra> it shows a little dog icon if its enabled
<ogra> Amaranth, yes
<Amaranth> i forget, does beagle do cluepackets or is that dashboard?
<|QuaD-_> Amaranth: i think thats dashboard
<|QuaD-_> dashboard is really cool
<|QuaD-_> i can't wait till they resume working on it
<|QuaD-_> ogra: still indexing mailbox, i have way too much mail
<ogra> heh
<\sh> dholbach: i want to go home early :) so here i have gigabit ethernet ,) at home only 4mbit/s
<dholbach> "only"
<dholbach> stststs
<|QuaD-_> "Search for packages in the the apt cache." from the beagle wiki... that would be awesome
<ogra> |QuaD-_, you mean an apt-get backend
<ogra> err apt-cache
<|QuaD-_> yeah
<\sh> dholbach: downstream ;) upstream is 442kbit/s
<ogra> hmm.... and apt-file.....
<|QuaD-_> whats apt-file?
<ogra> install it....
<ogra> run sudo apt-file update
<ogra> and do reverse searches through the packages for specific files
<|QuaD-_> hmm, lemme see
<|QuaD-_> finally done wiht mail!
<|QuaD-_> ogra: beagle.xpi is not on my system anywhere
<ogra> hmm, it should...
<|QuaD-_> i just updatedb'ed and locate beagle.xpi
<ogra> it might get renamed during the install process
<|QuaD-_> locate *.xpi
<|QuaD-_> /home/derek/.mozilla/firefox/default.9p9/extensions/temp/0/0.xpi
<ogra> its called beagle.jar
<|QuaD-_> i don't think so
<Unfrgiven> tseng: ajmitch_: ogra: the beagle package has an incorrect control file. its missing the depend on gecko-sharp
<ogra> make[3] : Entering directory `/build/buildd/beagle-0.0.9/mozilla-extension'
<ogra> zip -q9 beagle.xpi install.rdf chrome/beagle.jar
<ogra> Unfrgiven, its missing a lot more
<Unfrgiven> ogra: oh? really.... what else? im keen to get it going :)
<|QuaD-_> ogra: i don't have beagle.jar
<ogra> Unfrgiven, the debhelper script fo mono is totally broken...
<ogra> |QuaD-_, but its generated in the package... dunno where it goes thn
<Unfrgiven> ogra: doh! oh well i guess it wont be long till we have beagle in breezy
<|QuaD-_> haha. is this problem reproduceable, or is it only me
<ogra> Unfrgiven, if i give all deps manually to it we would already have it ;)
<|QuaD-_> Unfrgiven: apt-get build-deb beagle
<|QuaD-_> oh wait
<ogra> build-dep
<|QuaD-_> different problem :)
<|QuaD-_> i think i have all the debs anyways :)
<|QuaD-_> *deps
<ogra> tseng, any idea what happens with beagle.jar after installation ? (its generated in the beagle package, but doesnt seem to get installed)
<|QuaD-_> interesting... seems tha beagle is REindexing my mail
<|QuaD-_> lol
<ogra> |QuaD-_, its indexing all the time
<|QuaD-_> ogra: right but shouldn't it finnish the rest of my files first?
<|QuaD-_> heh
<|QuaD-_> i hate to see when it tries to index gaim
<tseng|work> no, i dont even know why it would have a .jar file
<dholbach> see you later guys
<tseng|work> is that for the web service?
<|QuaD-_> tseng|work: not really sure, i looked on the wiki, didn't say anything about it really
<ogra> zip -q9 beagle.xpi install.rdf chrome/beagle.jar
<ogra> tseng|work, ^^^
<ogra> from the build log
<Unfrgiven> gnite dholbach
<|QuaD-_> goodnight? its 8am here :)
<ogra> tseng|work, it should go to /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/extensions/{somelonghash}/chrome/
<Unfrgiven> its 10:35 here
<Unfrgiven> pm
<ogra> Unfrgiven, 14:35 here (and at dholbachs place)
<|QuaD-_> ogra: i only have classic.jar here
<ogra> |QuaD-_, its generated, but obviously doesnt get installed
<|QuaD-_> yeah
<|QuaD-_> alright, finals time, ttyl
<Amaranth> yay, beagle
<|QuaD-_> i am addicted to watching it index
<|QuaD-_> hehe
<Amaranth> now we just need 2.6.12 to build :)
<|QuaD-_> but i have to leave it now!
<Unfrgiven> how do i get beagle to index my machine? the best applet appears to be working
<ogra> Unfrgiven, do a search
<ogra> Unfrgiven, it offers you to start the indexer
<Unfrgiven> ogra: thanks
<lamont> |QuaD-_: the log shows up in ~lamont/buildLogs sometime within 20-30 minutes of the build finishing.  the archive scripts run at :03 and :33 - if the build finished before about :28 or :58, then it'll make the next archive run.
<lamont> |QuaD-_: if the package is NEW, then it requires elmo love before it gets into the archive
<lamont> likewise, there can be errors that cause a successfully built package to fail to enter the archive, although those are pretty rare, and involve, uh, strangeness
<Unfrgiven> |QuaD-_: how exactly are you watching it index?
<koke> I can't get beagle working :(
<koke> FATAL: Could not initialize Beagle's bus connection.
<tseng|work> ogra lets put it in beagle.install then
<ogra> yep
<tseng|work> rock on
<tseng|work> i also have a user request to built it with wv1 (ms word parser)
<tseng|work> he thinks there are a zillion users with a zillion word files on their ubuntu pc
<tseng|work> i think thats false, and that wv1 shouldnt go to main with beagle probably
<tseng|work> meh.
<Lathiat> having the wv support is cute
<Lathiat> cus you can bold words and make it rank higher !
<Treenaks> tseng|work: doesn't it work with libgsf?
<\sh> hmmm...the ubuntu world is really small
<Treenaks> \sh: ?
<\sh> i think most of the ubuntu devs are coming from places around dortmund ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: someone's been recruiting ;)
<\sh> Treenaks: well...i learned that mvo is member of ping.de ;)
<\sh> ping.de was one of the first private internet clubs in dortmund :)
<\sh> funny :)
<ogra> tseng|work, isnt word indexing in gsf-sharp ?
<koke> have to go...
<g14> Newbie Question: I looked at the UbuntuDownUnder Breezy Goals and it said that mono will be included with Breezy by default
<g14> Is this true?
<tritium> yep
<g14> awesome, you have one more convert from fedora
<tritium> tseng is our Mono master
<g14> I'm sure the debian purist nazis love that
<\sh> the what?
<Treenaks> g14: mono is Free, and it's being fixed in Debian as well as Ubuntu -- at the same time by the same people afaik
<Treenaks> g14: not really much about it that the Debian Purists don't like
<g14> I thought the debian guys would never include mono for the same reasons redhat never will, the potential m$ problem
<g14> like cloning asp.net
<g14> Maybe I missed something on the mailinglists
<\sh> g14: redhat is riding on the hard OS business wave...they have to include mono if they want to have success with their desktop distribution
<g14> Was I wrong about debian including mono by default?
<\sh> what means "by default"?
<Treenaks> I don't know about sarge.. but debian will have mono in main
<\sh> "by default" == in the normal installation process
<Treenaks> uh.. sarge+1
<\sh> "by default" == in the main reposistories?
<g14> in the main installation
<\sh> g14: for what?
<ogra> our mono packages come from debian
<g14> Beagle, tomboy, the same things that ubuntu will have it for
<Treenaks> g14: the main installation for debian is usually "base only" for me
<Treenaks> g14: the rest I apt-get when I need it
<ogra> without their work we wouldnt have mono, so please dont call tem nazis or something
<\sh> g14: if you mean the runtime to run mono apps it should be ok to install it, _when_ there are any ness. applications using mono-runtime on debian
<g14> I didn't mean to offend anyone but anytime I ask on the debian mailinglist or in #debian they are very rude
<Treenaks> ogra: well, they are strict about licensing stuff
<Treenaks> ogra: (for good reasons)
<ogra> g14, at least one of them is in this channel...
<\sh> rude != nazis
<g14> that was a figure of speech
<g14> Sorry if I bothered anyone
<\sh> g14: sorry, i wouldn't use it even as a figure of speech
<g14> Your from germany, you took that way differently than I meant it
<\sh> g14: i think, it has nothing to do with "being german"
<\sh> or coming from germany
<\sh> but this is OT
<g14> agreed
<Lathiat> rmm
<Lathiat> i needed to link /usr/lib/libMonoPosixHelper.so.0 to /usr/lib/libMonopsixHelper.so to get beagled to start
<\sh> going home now...cu later dudes
<ogra> Lathiat, as i said mono is totally broken currently...
<tritium> see you \sh
<ogra> Lathiat, so be patient ;)
<ogra> or break your system ;)
* tritium contemplates lyrics for "ogra", set to the tune of "Lola" by the Kinks
<ogra> heh
<Lathiat> ogra: righton
<tritium> :-)
<Treenaks> tritium: scary
<Treenaks> tritium: how about "MOTU"
<Amaranth> whoa...beagle is on a quest to kill my computer
<tritium> Treenaks, sure :)
<Amaranth> ~90% CPU for the last 10 minuts
<Lathiat> Amaranth: indexing everything :)
<Amaranth> it's been running for a week
<Treenaks> Amaranth: a /week/ >???
<Treenaks> Amaranth: how large is your ~ ?
<Amaranth> gigs
<Amaranth> many, many gigs
<Lathiat> cvs checkouts must kill it :)
<Lathiat> ok so
<Lathiat> once i got this package building, fixed, etc
<Lathiat> genchanges?
<Amaranth> my ~ is about 54GB
<xuzo> how is the mantainer of tomboy?
<Amaranth> tseng
<xuzo> desktop file is missing :)
<Amaranth> guessing you mean who
<Amaranth> tomboy runs on the panel
<Lathiat> xuzo: you dont use a icon, you add it to your panel
<Lathiat> xuzo: right click panel, add to panel, tomboy
<ogra> xuzo, the should be no .desktop file
<xuzo> mmm is an applet now? sorry
<xuzo> last time I check it was a systray icon, sorry for the noise
<ogra> it changed with this version
<ogra> :)
<xuzo> I'm searching some relative-easy work to do
<ogra> xuzo, then stay around, we'll have a lot of work to do the next days....
<ogra> weeks....months.....
<xuzo> ok ogra, but... there is a place/page were I can start?
<ogra> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<ogra> for everxything about MOTU and how to become one...
<xuzo> mmm I already check it, some more expecific, like things that need to be packaged or fixed
<ogra> additionally the debian new maintainers guide for packaging knowledge....
<ogra> ah, ok... we make lists for that, but the real fun hasnt started yet....
<xuzo> UniverseCandidates is up-to-date?
<ogra> but anyway, every red package here that is in universe is to be fixed by us: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
<ogra> yep
<ogra> feel free to add things if you miss something
<xuzo> ogra, thanks, two good resources to start ;)
<tritium> yikes, gsl is in that list
<ogra> missing dep
<tritium> yeah, looking...
<ogra> ps2eps is probably still waiting for a merge with the new version
<tritium> gsl is near and dear to my heart
<ogra> gab it ;)
<ogra> grab even
<tritium> cool, but it looks like nothing really to fix, just a missing dep
<ogra> but i think it will resolve if ps2eps is there...
<tritium> we agree
<ogra> you could look whats holding back ps2eps
<tritium> okay
<lamont> ogra: well, except for the dep-waits that will be met eventually, and the apt errors that happen every time the build starts during the middle of processing that architecture's Release file, and ... :-)
<ogra> heh
* ogra adds broken debhelper for mono to that list
<|QuaD-_> ogra: just got back from my finally, beagled hasn't crashed yet, its been running for ~2 hours
<tritium> |QuaD-_, hey, how did it go?
<ogra> |QuaD-_, but you are on ix86, right ?
<|QuaD-_> tritium: good, but i think i had all of the dependencies not listed
<|QuaD-_> ogra: yeah, p4 i believe
<tritium> |QuaD-_, I meant your final exam :)
<ogra> |QuaD-_, on amd64 it still crashes after 1-2h
<|QuaD-_> ogra: what do you have
<|QuaD-_> tritium: haha
<|QuaD-_> tritium: not that bad, i expected it to be worse
<tritium> Good!  You're done, right?
<|QuaD-_> just have to turn in my thesis (and make last minute corrections) :) then i graduate if i passed everything :) what about you?
<tritium> I take my final defense on July 22.  No more coursework or exams at this point.
<|QuaD-_> tritium: you phd?
<tritium> yeah, in e.e., you?
<|QuaD-_> ahh, undergrad :) i am a youngin
<|QuaD-_> what school do you go to?
<lamont> ogra: and if there's an actual failure (as opposed to dep-wait/give-back) that just needs a build later (e.g., broken debhelper), then you poke me, or elmo if I'm not around
<lamont> rather than a no-source-change upload
<tritium> |QuaD-_, Purdue grad, Notre Dame undergrad.  Where are you?
<ogra> oki
<ogra> lamont, but fixing the debhelper will still take me some time....
<ogra> so i'll come back to you later with a lot of mono stuff
<|QuaD-_> tritium: BU... one of my professors actually asked me to do my phd (or even masters) with him next year (ee/cse), but i am done with engineering, i can't do it anymore
<|QuaD-_> tritium: i wanna go back for a phd in cs
<tritium> |QuaD-_, that's awesome :)
<lamont> np.  Note htat if there are binaries in the archive for that version of the pacakge on that architecture, then you get to do a no-source-change upload.
<|QuaD-_> tritium: yeah, i really wish he was a cs prof (his phd is actually in cs). He is one of the greatest professors i ever had. He actually made problem sets fun by having us get our code graded by how fast it ran in relation to the class, turned into huge contests
<|QuaD-_> (it was a cse algorithms class)
<tritium> heh
<|QuaD-_> tritium: whats your phd on?
<tritium> |QuaD-_, I'll query you, since this is getting OT
<|QuaD-_> heh ok :)
<Lathiat> humm, how do i tell dupload to upload my i386 deb as well
<thom> don't use -S to dpkg-buildpacke/debuild
<thom> Lathiat: ^^
<Lathiat> yep thanks
<\sh> re
<|QuaD-_> ogra: when beagled crashed for you, what would happen? mine kept repeating a message about closing *something something* filesystem, and i don't think it continuted to index
<ogra> |QuaD-_, it says "Exit" in the last line and you get your prompt back
<|QuaD-_> ohh, mine didn't do that
<tseng|work> did i miss anything?
<|QuaD-_> ogra: DEBUG: Close on FileSystemIndex thats what it is... going to find out what that means
<ogra> |QuaD-_, i think thats ok...
<|QuaD-_> hmm, alrighty, i just didn't see it indexing
<|QuaD-_> ohh just picked up again
<|QuaD-_> ogra: its normal
<ogra> yep
<\sh> changed mysql-query-browser
<\sh> dholbach can review ;)
<\sh> and it feels like that I have a virus in my health-system
<ogra> tseng|work, the error is in mono, not in dh_clilibs it seems
<Lathiat> hrmm
<Lathiat> i deleted the files off my server and trying to dupload again it says its already done, where does it store that information?
<ogra> in the log....
<Nafallo> ogra: any troubles with breezy64 I should think about or is it worth the upgrade? :-)
<\sh> in the directory where the uploaded file is...remove the file with ".upload "
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> right
<ogra> Nafallo, works fine here (regarding the early state we're in)
<Nafallo> ogra: kewl. I'll upgrade then :-).
<Lathiat> sorry, bit new to pbuilder and dupload, etc -- only done general packaging before :)
<ogra> Lathiat, but never ever do an upload you already did twice to an official server ...
<Lathiat> ogra: righton
<Lathiat> altho, ooc, why ?
<Lathiat> not that i see any reason to ever have to
<ogra> tseng|work, dh_clilibs calls monodis :
<ogra> $ monodis --assemblyref /usr/lib/tomboy/Tomboy.exe
<ogra> /usr/bin/monodis: error: /usr/bin/.libs/monodis does not exist
<ogra> there is our bug
<|QuaD-_> not that i want it, but are there any plans to package dashboard right now? or are they waiting until it is really worked on
<ogra> is it maintained upstream ?
<|QuaD-_> ogra: is that for me?
<ogra> yep
<|QuaD-_> upstream as in debian?
<ogra> does anybody devolop it actively ? does it get bug/security fixes ?
<|QuaD-_> no, they are spending their time perfecting beagle, then once they finish beagle they are planning to go back to it
<|QuaD-_> (i think i read that somewhere)
<Lathiat> so, where do i ask to get someone to review this debian sync fix?
<Lathiat> i can only see the list for new packages on the wiki
<\sh> Lathiat: new package for universe?
<Lathiat> nah, just a fix to the debian sync
<\sh> Lathiat: put it on MOTUToReview
<Lathiat> i am blind i missed that link
<\sh> Lathiat: hehe ;) i missed that link also ;)
<\sh> and now I know why i'm not feeling well....my back is paining
<jabra> umm do you guys review the "MOTUNewPackages" site in order?
<\sh> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey \sh
<\sh> dholbach: you can catch ne new diff.gz and dsc for mysql-query-browser later
<dholbach> yes, later :-)
<dholbach> ROCK :-)
<ogra> and ROLL !
<jabra> umm do you guys review the "MOTUNewPackages" site in order?
<dholbach> jabra: we try to catch all
<jabra> dholbach: ok cool
<jabra> jw
<tseng|work> ogra: oh man!
<tseng|work> ogra: thats a dumb one
<tseng|work> good find
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> whiprush: do they really plan a tax on hamburgers in detroit?
<tseng|work> i am super busy at work on php
<ogra> took me a while...lets fix it after the meeting
<tseng|work> will look in again later
<ogra> ok
<tseng|work> ta
<whiprush> dholbach: what? that can't be right
<whiprush> otherwise I'm in trouble
<dholbach> i'll read it on a german newssite
<dholbach> will give you the link later :-)
<dholbach> whiprush: http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,1185,OID4328452_REF1,00.html
<dholbach> you have to put it in babelfish or something :-)
<whiprush> haha
<whiprush> that's funny
<Lathiat> blah, this package builds properly in pbuilder but not normally
<diamond> lo folks
<dholbach> gratulations siretart
<dholbach> diamond: you were on the CommunityCouncilAgenda as well?
<siretart> dholbach: thanks :)
<diamond> dholbach: yup
<dholbach> diamond: -> #ubuntu-meeting :-)
<diamond> dholbach: mako's mail said tho who'd been to the last meeting didn't need to turn up, which was good, cos i couldn't make this one -)
<diamond> dholbach: ah, ok.
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> i think it's better when you speak for yourself :-)
<Nafallo> ogra: glad I had a local server now ;-). got 5 packages out of 384 from the net or something :-P.
<ogra> heh
<diamond> dholbach: grand
<Nafallo> ogra: you got that lsb-core bug?
<ogra> dunno... bug # ?
<Nafallo> ogra: I believe Mithrandir reported it in debian, dunno #.
<Nafallo> ogra: I helped reproduce it in a chroot ;-)
<ogra> hmm, so i cant really tell ....
<Nafallo> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/base-files_3.1.2ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
<Nafallo>  trying to overwrite `/lib64', which is also in package lsb-core
<dholbach> dredg: could you have a look at MOTUToReview and tell me how the status of the packages is?
<dholbach> there were some of yours on
<diamond> dholbach: have they gotten as far down the list as me yet? (think i'm last or so)
<dholbach> diamond: no, not yet... so you can relax a bit :-)
<diamond> dholbach: ok. i'll try -)
<dredg> dholbach: hello
<dholbach> hai dredg :-)
<dholbach> diamond: don't worry :-)
<dredg> dholbach: i'll take a look at it in a bit
<dholbach> take your time
<dredg> i've sort of been enjoying a stable desktop, though i'm a bit tempted to just upgrade to breezy and embrace the brokenness...
<ogra> guys, can we get together after the meeting and make up a date for the next MotuMeeting ?
<dholbach> dredg: it works particularly fine for me
<dredg> i don't doubt it
<dredg> i miss the daily upgrades
<Lathiat> error: brain unable to parse configure script output
<Lathiat> i'd hate to be sh
* dredg kills phpbb in the face and prepares a hoary patch
* dredg dies a little insid
<dredg> e
<Nafallo> yay! I run breezy :-)
<lamont> londonlaw needs python2.4 love
* Nafallo looks for any diffrences ;-)
<dredg> dholbach: i have nothing outstanding on MOTUToReview
* dredg edits
<Nafallo> hmm, ubuntu-calendar is out of date :-P.
<Nafallo> even more so then it was before :-)
<dredg> that is, if the wiki would stop being as slow as a very slow thing
<diamond> ogra, dholbach, dredg: cheers for the support -)
<dholbach> you absolutely deserved it
<dredg> diamond: now you just want to bribe the technical commitee and you're set
<ogra> was based on _your_ work ;)
<tritium> Thank you everyone!
<diamond> ogra: never hurts to have others say it was worth doing tho -)
<dredg> diamond: now make authconfig work :)
<ogra> heh
<diamond> dredg: sir, yes sir!
<\sh> thx alot guys for your help :)
<diamond> dholbach: http://www.skynet.ie/~diamond/images/cpp.jpg
<dholbach> we'll be a ROCKing MOTU team with you guys help
<ogra> yeah
<dholbach> haha :-)))
<ogra> tseng|work, around ?
<xuzo> hi, I just package gnome-schedule
<tritium> elmo, ogra, dholbach: Thanks for your support :)
<ogra> :)
* dholbach high-fives tritium 
<dholbach> :-)
* dredg wonders how insane one would have to be to try and package something as sick and wrong as openxchange
<tritium> :-)
<\sh> hmmm...i looks like ubuntu world domination ;)
<\sh> "we are the Master Of The Universe, Drop Your Shields, Resistance is Futile" ;-)
<Lathiat> haha
<\sh> ah dholbach
<\sh>  Applied a patch to make mysql-admin compile under gcc4.0 and amd64 thanks
<\sh>     to Andreas Jochens and Stephan Hermann (closes: #301844)
<\sh> mysql-admin
<dholbach> i'll have a look after the meetin
<\sh> adam applied my supplied patch to debian ;)
<\sh> no work for me anymore
<dholbach> ah :-)
<\sh> so i can close it ,)
<\sh> if I could see my assign bugs list...but system error
<xuzo> sorry but... I packaged for breezy one from UniverseCandidates. What to do now?
<dholbach> xuzo: would you please put it on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages ?
<dholbach> somebody will review it and get in touch with you
<dholbach> sounds good?
<xuzo> ok ;)
<\sh> prf..
<\sh> anybody usin tagtool under breezy?
<bddebian> Howdy
<dholbach> hey bddebian
<Amaranth> hey, does tagtool work on AAC files?
<bddebian> Hello dholbach
<crimsun> dholbach: ok, thanks. It's a work in progress.
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> thank you
<crimsun> I'm working with the Debian maintainer and upstream both on it
<dholbach> wow!
<tritium> crimsun, we're discussing ops in #ubuntu-meeting
<herve> hi!
<dholbach> hey herve
<crimsun> tritium: yep, thanks.
<tritium> np
<crimsun> (just reattached)
<ogra> rrright
<ogra> can we make up a date for the next motu meeting ?
<crimsun> Amaranth: not that I know of
<tritium> ogra, sure
<crimsun> (just please not this week or next monday)
<dholbach> i'm free
<ogra> crimsun, make a proposal ;)
<crimsun> actually, go with what works best for everyone
<tritium> I'll bring the coffee and doughnuts
<crimsun> I'm moving across the country late this week, so I'll try and catch logs if late this week works best for others
<tritium> Where are you moving, crimsun?
<ogra> how about next week ?
<crimsun> Rochester, MN (IBM)
<crimsun> ogra: sure, next week is great
<ogra> lets say thursday....?
<tritium> Wow, congratulations.  If you're anywhere in the area of West Lafayette, you've got a place to stay if you need it.
<dholbach> crimsun: good luck with everything!
<crimsun> Thursday (19 May) ~1600 UTC?
<ogra> sounds good
<crimsun> tritium: / dholbach: thanks!
<tritium> Sure.  Are you driving?
<dholbach> crimsun: perfect for me
<crimsun> (flying out)
<tritium> ah, okay
<crimsun> ok, anyone object to next Thursday, 19 May, 1600 UTC for the MOTU meeting?
* ogra notes that date on the wiki
<dholbach> ogra: i put it on the calendar
<herve> what time it makes in GMT?
<ogra> 18:00
<tritium> dholbach, you'll put it on the wiki calendar?
<dholbach> ogra: not just +1
<\sh> ??? gmt==utc ;)
<dholbach> tritium: yes
<ogra> dholbach, ah, yes
<ogra> sorry
<tritium> dholbach, sweet, then it'll automatically show up on my calendar in evolution :)
<herve> dholbach, yes, on our tz if you know it!
<Nafallo> \sh: hehe, but bst doesn't ;-)
<dholbach> tritium: robitaille does the .ics stuff
<crimsun> herve: it'd be 1600 GMT
<\sh> Nafallo: bst?
<dholbach> herve: in our its +2 atm
<tritium> dholbach, ok, so there may be some delay...
<herve> \sh, I'm not really sure, with the dst and all funny stuff like that
<dholbach> utc+2
<Nafallo> \sh: british summer time iirc :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: bst == gmt+1
<herve> ok so 18 in western europe
<herve> sounds good
<Nafallo> \sh: oui, i.e. gmt==utc!=bst :-)
<\sh> in summer uk time is german time -1
<\sh> in winter -2
<herve> just be sure to remind me!
<Nafallo> \sh: CET that is :-)
<ogra> damn, the wiki hangs
<herve> my head...
<\sh> ogra: not only the wiki
<ogra> ah....works
<\sh> Nafallo: well...;) I
<Nafallo> herve: *s* I just had a conversation with a user. _my_ head ;-)
<\sh> I'm really not in this timezone business..at least I'd never a jetlag
<dholbach> edited the calendar: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Calendar
<ogra> great
<\sh> dholbach: ical also updated?
<dholbach> \sh: i'm talking to robitaille
<dholbach> he maintains it
<\sh> no automatic conversion?
<dholbach> don't think so
<tritium> only thing I don't like about using his ical is that I can't get alarm notification
<\sh> hmm
<herve> ok I'm getting mad
<herve> I can't find the build logs of pbuilder
<tritium> herve, did you specify one?
<herve> no default choice?
<\sh> herve: hmmm.... i do pbuilder bla.dsc &> build.log L;)
<Lathiat> dholbach: do you know much about the gl/glu header stuff?
<tritium> I use the switch
<Lathiat> dholbach: bzflag builds fine in pbuilder, but not normally on my machine, and i cant see why it fails the check
<dholbach> Lathiat: not at all, i just tried to make it work by installing the according header files and it worked
<dholbach> what goes wrong?
<Lathiat> fails to find gluScaleImage in GL/glu.h
<Lathiat> even tho its there, and is linkable
<dholbach> install the build-depends locally
<dholbach> ah htm well
<\sh> crimsun: ping
<Lathiat> well, they are installed see :)
<Lathiat> and i cant see anything conflicted
<Lathiat> its got me puzzled
<crimsun> \sh: pong
<Lathiat> and trying to parse the configure script output to replicate the exact test is like trying to pull my teeth out
<Lathiat> is there some debug option to configure?
<\sh> crimsun: pykde stuff :)
<crimsun> \sh: k. Let's see if it was synced from Sid, first
<\sh> check this posting http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/pipermail/pykde/2004-September/008483.html
<crimsun> k
<\sh> it's something different...incompatiblity with kde while processing kconfigskeletons call by ref values
<\sh> the patch this guy mentioned is working very smooth...i prepared some patches against the latest snapshot of pykde...
<crimsun> did you pull from cvs/svn?
<\sh> upstream wrote a mail to me that he will release a new version of pykde last week...nothing happened, so I think we should patch pykde and put it in the repos for being kde conform
<\sh> crimsun: no
<crimsun> all right, what's the versioning like?
<crimsun> 3.11.4+cvs20050510-0ubuntu1?
<\sh> http://www.river-bank.demon.co.uk/download/snapshots/PyKDE/
<crimsun> thanks
<\sh> no
<\sh> i didn't see any cvs place for it
<Lathiat> ohh
<Lathiat> i see
<\sh> kde has only a copy of this snapshot in it
<Lathiat> -lGL needs -lpthread
<Lathiat> seems like $LDFLAGS isnt getting pulled in
<Lathiat> humm
<tritium> crimsun, will you seek an adjunct position at a local university, or are you just focusing on IBM now?
<\sh> kdebindings not mentioned cause it's disabled by default in makefile.am
<crimsun> \sh: is that snapshot newer than 3.11.4?
<\sh> crimsun: definitly
<crimsun> tritium: no idea atm about the former, just the latter for now
<tritium> crimsun, cool
<\sh> 3.11.4 is bundled with kdebindings 3.4 and disabled cause of problems with python versions and dcop-python
<crimsun> \sh: ok, let's rename that snapshot to that versioning scheme: python-kde3_3.11.4+snapshot20050316-0ubuntu1.orig.tar.gz
<\sh> crimsun: i saw that you had your hands on this package...i would send u the patches, could u try to include those patches?
<crimsun> \sh: I don't own the package at all, feel free to work on it
<herve> crimsun, you're trying to create the longest package name? :-)
<tritium> hmm, mako may have forgotten...15 minutes have turned into 30
<crimsun> herve: that honour belongs to the translation packages ;)
<\sh> crimsun: ok...will try to put those patces in
<crimsun> \sh: great
<crimsun> herve: for instance, mozilla-firefox-locale-foo: 1.0.1lang20050309ubuntu1-0ubuntu3
<crimsun> ;)
<herve> wow!
<herve> be around
<herve> ++
<crimsun> tritium: maybe there was a really long line for coffee
<tritium> yeah ;)
<tritium> okay, crimsun...mako is back
<dholbach> hey StoneTable
<dholbach> StoneTable: were you on the communitycouncilagenda-list as well?
<StoneTable> hey dholbach
<StoneTable> I don't think I was
<dholbach> are you a member yet?
<StoneTable> nope
<dholbach> i strongly encourage you to put yourself on the list for next time :-)
<dholbach> which will be 24 May 22:00 UTC
<StoneTable> alright, I'm added :)
<crimsun> great
<Nafallo> dholbach: any new recruits made it today? :-)
<dholbach> ask the channel :-)
<dholbach> tritium is a FULL motu now, schweeb, siretart and ... *think* ... made it
<Lathiat> ugh, this is annoying
<tritium> :-)
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> tritium: congrats :-)
<tritium> Nafallo, thanks :)
<crimsun> excellent
<dholbach> who made it as well?
<Nafallo> dholbach: btw, did you see I'm on Help/Test for IntroDevDocs ;-)
<dholbach> oh cool
<dholbach> it's so good you're all in this so actively
<seb128> evening
<seb128> bradb: around?
<dholbach> hey seb128
<bradb> seb128: hi, yeah, around
<seb128> daniel!!
<ogra> oh, seb128
<dholbach> seb!!! give us some MOTU love!
<seb128> bradb: any plan to fix the search for malone?
<Nafallo> dholbach: well, I was pulling a joke, but it seems ppl want's me as MOTU or something ;-).
<seb128> trying to find dups without a search ... doesn't work
<dholbach> seb128 must be here for planning the MOTUGNOME team :-)
<seb128> and I don't like to open dups
* Nafallo will do his best to make it so though ;-).
<bradb> seb128: yeah, i'll try to have that fixed by the end of tomorrowish, but no matter what it might take another week or two before it actually lands in production (i only just returned from holidays after UdU yesterday :)
<dholbach> Nafallo: if you want to join the crew and do some good work, go ahead, we will absolutely help you
<herve> don't bother him, he'll never come back otherwise!
<seb128> dholbach: 1- fix malone or people will have a nervous breakdown after 5 bugs
<seb128> bradb: one week or two to get feedback on bugs, and you expect to be ready for july? utch
<seb128> bradb: no offence, but that's not going to work imho, that's too lagy to work on issues
<bddebian> WTF is malone?
* bddebian feels st00pid again
<seb128> the bug tracker used by ubuntu
<bradb> seb128: there's a huge amount of overhead between having code committed vs. getting it merged vs. getting it rolled out into production.
<bddebian> Ahhh
<dholbach> bddebian: launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone
<bradb> code reviews, dogfooding for a week, etc.
<Nafallo> *phone*
<seb128> bradb: as an user I don't really care ... :) but yeah I understand
<seb128> that's doesn't sound good
<seb128> 2 weeks to get a feedback on a fix for something that is supposed to be ready soon ... hum
<seb128> there is no way to make this easier to get quick feedback?
<bradb> seb128: dogfood
<seb128> that's the same bug base?
<bradb> yeah, that's the intent, i believe
<seb128> no, I mean, the bugs are syncs between both
<bradb> yeah, that's what i mean too :)
<seb128> people bugs on the public server
<seb128> k
<bradb> well, dogfood wouldn't be sync'd up to prod though, naturally
<seb128> so if I close a bug on dogfood, what happen for prod?
<bradb> because dogfood will usually be newer code
<seb128> nothing?
<bradb> correct
<seb128> hum
* seb128 cries
<bradb> that's a lot of extra complexity to add to our workload. the dogfood server isn't meant to fill that purpose.
<seb128> you are just coming back from holidays, I'll let you a week or two before starting bugging you :)
<bradb> it's meant to be a testbed for what will end up getting rolled out onto production.
<seb128> but atm malone is not usuable on a maintainer side
<bradb> because of the search, you mean?
<seb128> can't comment on bug without entering the comment 2 times and clicking 3 times
<seb128> no search
<seb128> no way to see the bug assigned to somebody
<seb128> (probably the search too this one?)
<bradb> entering the comment two times and clicking three times? you should only have to enter it once and click once, unless something really nasty happened when i wasn't looking (and i haven't been looking for the last two weeks, so i guess it's possible.)
<seb128> according to the feedback on the malone bug that's fixed for dogfood
<seb128> adding a comment raise an error
<seb128> and clear the comment
<seb128> but commenting from the error page works
<seb128> hum
<seb128> how do I look for closed bugs?
<herve> and assigned bugs
<ogra> seb128, search ?
* seb128 slaps ogra
<ogra> :)
<seb128> bradb: anyway I've opened bugs for some issues, feel free to comment on them ;)
<bradb> seb128: yeah, well, the search is broken, so if you're trying to do things that involve searching bugs, well... :)
<seb128> no way to force a sync to production to fix this bug?
<seb128> I mean, that makes malone quite unusable during the time that's not fixed
<seb128> waiting 1 or 2 weeks doesn't really make sense
<bradb> seb128: i know what you mean. i'll have to ask stub about this, because he's our production rollout guy.
<seb128> k, thanks
<Lathiat> woo fixed this stupid bug
<seb128> I'll stop bothering you for tonight
<seb128> thanks for working on that :)
<bradb> seb128: not bothering me dude, your complaints are ben valide
<seb128> yeah, but I've put most of them on malone and you are just coming back from holidays ... better to let you some time to catch up ;)
<seb128> bradb: oh, I think dholbach already asked during UDU, but is there any way to subscribe a ml to the GNOME Team bugs?
<bradb> seb128: the preferred email address of the GNOME team would have to be the list email address
<seb128> rock
<seb128> I just need to a mailing-list from somewhere so
<seb128> dholbach: get us a list please :)
<Lathiat> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> Lathiat: pong
<\sh> *sniff*
<\sh>   9:13pm  up 449 days,  9:27,  3 users,  load average: 3.88, 3.93, 5.35
<seb128> dholbach: ME FIRST
<\sh> and i have to reboot it
<seb128> what a load
<dholbach> seb128: i still ask jdub for ubuntu-motu@ and didnt get it yet
<ivoks> \sh in the end, money was ok :)
<Lathiat> to build with nvidia-glx, you need -lpthread with -lGL (as opposed to without), so it works fine in buildds etc, should I patch the config stuff to handle this, or leave it?
<dholbach> nvidia-glx?
<\sh> seb128: and it's a dual pent III machine..:(
<Lathiat> dholbach: nvidia-glx is the magic GL libraries for nvidia
<Lathiat> binary ones
<\sh> i hope it's coming up again
<dholbach> yeah, but i hope you don't have it in build-deps or somewhere
<Lathiat> no
<Lathiat> i just happen to have it installed locally
<dholbach> seb128: i will take care of the list
<Lathiat> so wondering if its best just to leave it to stay close to upstream.
<seb128> dholbach: thanks
<ivoks> i don't know if it's a bug, but i can't rename directory in nautilus
<Lathiat> since it will build on the buildds fine and run fine
<dholbach> seb128: ubuntu-gnome-bugs@?
<seb128> dholbach: sounds cool
<dholbach> rock
<Nafallo> dholbach: I'll see what I do. First thing is to become more active on those stuff I choosed yesterday (devdocs etc.) :-).
<Nafallo> dholbach: and what I choosed earlier, UniverseSecurity ;-).
<dholbach> cool, we need ROCKING teams
<Nafallo> indeed :-).
<ogra> bah.....
<ogra> nobody noted herve's upload ?
<seb128> which one?
<ogra> larabie
<herve> sshhhhh...
* tritium cheers for herve 
<herve> it's not even free ;-)
<ogra> and ?
* ogra applauds herve (VERY LOUD)
<herve> I would have liked a better package for the first upload on my own
<crimsun> hey, any package is good!
* ogra had nicotine .... and nobody noticed :)
<herve> I don't even use that package :-)
<crimsun> I noticed, because I tried to install nicotine ;)
<ogra> crimsun, yeah, you poked me to it :)
<dholbach> herve: you finally made it!
<ogra> but jdub cheered for gcursor ;)
<crimsun> ;)
<dholbach> gratulations!
<Treenaks> ogra: you're the movieos-man, remember
<dholbach> haha! :-)
<herve> yeah, a two month episode coming to an end!
<ogra> Treenaks, on my way, on my way :)
<Nafallo> herve: congrats :-)
<herve> well, thanks all
<herve> I must assume seeing my name in the list makes me very proud
<dholbach> you really should be
<Lathiat> pbuilder rocks
<dholbach> :-)
<ivoks> dholbach don't review my wifi-radar :)
<ivoks> i found a bug in program
<herve> where are the unit tests!
<herve> :-)
<seb128> herve: dia has built now :)
<seb128> herzi: speaking about gcursor, any plan to get if for GNOME 2.12?
<dholbach> ivoks: ok :-)
<ivoks> dholbach i'll upload in few minutes new version :)
<dholbach> take your time
<dholbach> i think i'm going to bed soon tonight
<ivoks> ok :)
<jabra> dholbach: well you can review getwifi or anything I have packaged
<ivoks> ok, fixed
<dholbach> jabra: <dholbach> i think i'm going to bed soon tonight
<jabra> dholbach: ok cool
<Lathiat> sweet, got bzflag sorted.
<tritium> sleep tight, dholbach
<jabra> I could probably update a new version before you review it
<Lathiat> now i can go huntign for other things :)
<\sh> server is running again..goo'old'redhat'7.2
<Lathiat> kill it kill it :)
<\sh> Lathiat: well...there is an replacement server running gentoo :)
<Lathiat> time for the nuclear warheads
<\sh> but when my buddies have the money for a quad opteron, ubuntu should be ready to run mass virthosting servers and gameservers on it :)
<Lathiat> is anything listed in people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/ something thats needs merging or is it just everything thats ever ended up there and is there a list somewhere?
<herve> seb128, you have an idea for the verbiste bug?
<seb128> herve: I've made a patch even, that's why it's assigned to me
<seb128> I just need to upload
<herve> haven't check the report
<herve> just sear^Wbrowsing the bugs :-)
<dholbach> good night everyone
<Lathiat> night dholbach, thanks for the help
<tritium> night dholbach
<dholbach> Lathiat: de rien
<Lathiat> de rien?
<|QuaD-_> ogra: forwhatever reason, beagle is only indexing my liferea blogs
<dholbach> you're welcome
<Nafallo> Lathiat: french :-)
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> thanks
<ogra> |QuaD-_, it should also use your blam blogs if available
<herve> french will save your souls :-)
<Nafallo> hehe
<|QuaD-_> ogra: i don't have that installed, but it isn't indexing files
<ogra> hmm
<Nafallo> I'll be multi-language anyway.
<ogra> no idea atm. i'm into some deeper mono probs today....
<|QuaD-_> ogra: np, talking to the people in #dashboard
<ogra> ok
<Burgundavia> seb128, does sabayon require sudo?
<seb128> yep
<Nafallo> Taking classes in swedish, english and french. and have start talking with tfheen, in our own languages :-).
<seb128> to create profiles
<Lathiat> haha
<Burgundavia> seb128, .desktop doesn't have gksudo in it
<tseng|work> whats up
<ogra> |QuaD-_, if in doubt for a bug, remember that mono itself is currently broken for us, so it might be more then the app
<seb128> Burgundavia: thanks, I'll fix than and the category
<|QuaD-_> ogra: ok
<\sh> ogra: whats the magic behind beagle?
<ogra> \sh, you search something and it magically finds it for you ;)
<\sh> ogra: no possibility to convert it to python?
<Nafallo> ogra: what's the diffrence with locate then? ;-)
<\sh> .oO(or google?)
<ogra> Nafallo, beagle searches content....
<ogra> Nafallo, locate only files
<Nafallo> ogra: ahh, that's right :-).
<\sh> find . -type f -exec grep $1 {} \; ,-)
<herve> yes
<Lathiat> Nafallo: Hab SoSlI' Quch! ;)
<herve> but locate also finds files from other users
<Nafallo> Lathiat: pardon? :-P
<herve> "locate sex" was a few times verbose at school :-)
<ogra> \sh, do you get a response with that in less then 0,3 sec ? does it index your mails, jabber conversations, websites, blogs and rss feeds....M$ docs.......
<Nafallo> *phone*
<ogra> ...movies, music....
<Lathiat> Nafallo: "Your mother has a smooth forehead!" :)
<Lathiat> klingon insult
<\sh> ogra: well..no :)
<\sh> ogra: but it's quite difficult :) serendipity has a nice search function, cyrus imapd spools i can get via grep, websites via google and rss via akregator ;)
<\sh> jabber conversations i normally don't log, and if i need a log I would use MUC protocol with web ready logfiles server based :)
<ogra> \sh, sure, but then you dont have the hype....
<\sh> true
<\sh> apt-get install beagle
<Nafallo> Lathiat: lol
<\sh> not found :(
<Lathiat> Nafallo: :)
<\sh> is malone working again?
<Nafallo> yay!
<ogra> \sh, sudo apt-get build-dep beagle && sudo apt-get source -b beagle
<Nafallo> I run breezy.
<Nafallo> I can actually install those things :-)
<tseng|work> beagle rocks your face
<ogra> \sh, oh, and while you have it on the disk, fix mono ;-P
<Nafallo> ehm...
<tritium> tseng|work, does it make your face look stoned?  ;)
<\sh> ogra: breezy only :) I'm running hoary :) and I had some nice pitfalls running dchroot breezy and some X apps
<Nafallo> there is no beagle :-P
<Lathiat> beagle does rock
<ogra> \sh, indeed breezy
<Lathiat> i just need inotify
<Lathiat> to make it rock harder
<ogra> Lathiat, breezy has it
<Lathiat> has 2.6.12 for x86 gone into the archives yet?
<Lathiat> on the 2.6.10 kernel, the version of inotify does bad things on my machine
<Lathiat> the new one in 2.6.12 works fine
<Lathiat> just waiting for it to go in so i can get a headers package, rather than the image i tried from one of the kernel guys
<\sh> a system error occured
<Lathiat> wooo
<Lathiat> 2.6.12 on x86 love
<\sh> who was opi? has he hands on the jabber stuff
<\sh> hmmm...i was thinking about this ops problem in #ubuntu
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> I still can't find beagle :-P
<Amaranth> 2.6.12 on x86 with beagle rocks
<Amaranth> i searched for 'amazonia' and got no results then did a search on google for it
<Amaranth> showed up in the list instantly
<\sh> http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml
<Amaranth> \sh: You'll be waiting a couple months on that.
<Burgundavia> \sh, the ops problem is going to be solved
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> alot mroe ops were just added
<Amaranth> <--
<Amaranth> :)
<Burgundavia> when is the CC meeting?
<herve> yesterday :-p
<Lathiat> Burgundavia: like 4 hours ago :)
<Amaranth> I registered myself as a group contact for PyMusique 2 months ago, still haven't heard anything.
<Burgundavia> gah
<\sh> hehe
<Burgundavia> damn timezone thing
<\sh> Amaranth: well..I was thinking about more, hmmm, how can I say
<Lathiat> yay i can put my package in for review now
<\sh> sponsoring a server, act as a group contact + technical liason
<\sh> ogra: btw...I have now responsibility about 32 servers, and will get constantly paid for it :)
<ogra> \sh, yay, sounds great.... dont tell your exwife ;)
<\sh> ogra: no...:)
<\sh> ogra: it will go on another account :)
<\sh> hmmmm
<\sh> just talking on #ubuntu-de about rootservers and ubuntu :)
<\sh> and I have an idea...lemme check if this is working ;)
<Nafallo> ogra: am I supposed to find the package "beagle" on my amd64?
<ogra> Nafallo, a source package...
<Amaranth> Nafallo: it only built on ppc and 386
<Amaranth> what's the deal with amd64 anyway?
<Lathiat> we hate it
<Amaranth> the dh_clilib problem?
<ogra> Lathiat,  !!!
<Nafallo> that explain things :-)
<ogra> Amaranth, its deeper dowen
<Lathiat> ogra: ;p
<ogra> Amaranth, its  problem with mono itself
<bddebian> dowen? :-)
<Lathiat> so miguel lied to me at brainshare. :)
<Lathiat> actually i guess they only showed powerpc
<Lathiat> im sure they mentioned something tho. :)
<\sh> so..my back needs some rest....cu tomorrow gentlemen...and thx again for your support today
<Lathiat> cya
<ogra> night \sh
<ajmitch_> hi all :)
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> quiet day in here today
<ajmitch_> I see the MOTU meeting is going to be at an awkward time again
<Nafallo> yay for 2.6.12! :-)
<Nafallo> bringed my wireless drivers in and all :-)
<ajmitch_> ok
<|QuaD-_> ogra: mine is crashing now too :)
<ogra> |QuaD-_, we'll fix it :)
<ajmitch_> ogra: at least it's not just amd64 :)
<|QuaD-_> ogra: hehe :) not too worried
<|QuaD-_> it did index some stuff for me to play with
<herve> strange
<herve> larabie only compiled for i386
<herve> it's a arch indep package
<ajmitch_> herve: as expected
<ajmitch_> you don't need to compile it multiple times when the same deb will be built :)
<herve> hmm
<herve> I guess the archs all and any are not clear enough for me
<ajmitch_> at least one buildd has to build an arch: all package
<ajmitch_> after that is built, the others don't need to try
<ajmitch_> arch: any means build an arch-specific deb on each buildd
<herve> sounds better that way
<herve> ajmitch_, I could give you shirt ironing lessons to thank you
<herve> I've ironed like 20 shirts
<herve> and getting good at it!
<ajmitch_> haha
<tseng> ozamosi: ?
<ozamosi> yes?
<ozamosi> Dunno if you noted, but beagle doesnt depend on mono. (i think that was you)
<tseng> we're working on depends problems
<ajmitch_> yes, the cli-common scripts & mono are having a few issues at the moment
<ozamosi> i thought so.
<ogra> ajmitch_, sadly its the cli-common scripts :-/
<ajmitch_> ogra: I thought it was the missing monodis?
<ogra> err, sorry
<ajmitch_> and the script not failing gracefully when monodis is broken
<ogra> s/its/its not/
* ajmitch_ watched #debian-mono scrollback :)
<ogra> monodis isnt even there
<ogra> thats the prob...
<ajmitch_> part of my morning duties is to read the scrollback on irc channels ;)
<ogra> heh, i do that too :)
<Nafallo> xine hates me
<ajmitch_> MOTU meeting will be pain
<ajmitch_> 5AM on a friday morning for me ;)
<ogra> hmm, we should have a voting system for that
<ajmitch_> it's hard to find a good time for everyone though
<ajmitch_> and I'm the only person in this timezone
<ogra> yep, but we should rotate a bit, i guess we also have people from .au
<ajmitch_> at the moment, not many
<ogra> lets put it on the wiki page as a topic...
<ajmitch_> Lathiat is from the other side of .au :)
<ogra> nearer to your TZ then dholbach or me
<ajmitch_> yep
<ajmitch_> but still about 4-5 hours different
<tseng> hi
<Nafallo> hi tseng :-)
<ogra> hey
<ajmitch_> hi tseng
<herve> hi
<herve> I mean
<herve> bye!
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> gaah, I hate difficult decisions :-P
<Nafallo> throw away porn, or warty :-/
<ajmitch_> throw away the porn
<Nafallo> hmm, missed one. burn all the charmed seasons ;-)
<herzi> (21:46:45) seb128: herzi: speaking about gcursor, any plan to get if for GNOME 2.12?
<herzi> seb128: no, i want to file some bugs on gtk+ and x.org before this
<seb128> k
<herzi> i don't see a reason to add it, as long as we cannot either instantly apply the theme or apply it within the next session
<herzi> the current behaviour is just plain broken IMO
<ajmitch_> ah, seb128 is here.. do you know if gedit-dev is really main or universe?
<ajmitch_> it has a bug :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-19
<seb128> ajmitch_: main probably
<seb128> bah I thought gcursor was working fine
<seb128> anyway time to sleep for now
<seb128> bbl
<doko> dholbach: ping?
<crimsun> doko: I think he's asleep
<koke> hey guys, I have a present for you :)
<koke> http://amedias.org/~koke/ubuntu/sidebar/
<koke> please suggest new inputs/links :D
<ogra> wow, the build log search tool is cool
<blueyed> what about bugzilla/malone, koke?
<koke> humm
<koke> case "malone": die("A system error occurred.");
<koke> ;P
<doko> crimsun, koke, ogra, dholbach, ajmitch_: could we sit together on Wed evening UTC to prepare the CXX transition for universe?
<ajmitch_> doko: what time UTC?
<koke> doko: that is 11 May
<koke> May 11th :P
<koke> ?
<doko> doesn't matter for me, what works for you au/nz people?
<ogra> 18th ?
<ajmitch_> I've got to be at uni at 2200UTC
<ajmitch_> so before then is fine
<doko> so 19:00 UTC would be fine?
<crimsun> 1900 UTC tomorrow is fine
<crimsun> (or one week hence)
<ajmitch_> 1900UTC wednesday should be good
<ajmitch_> 7AM for me, not too early :)
<doko> ajmitch_: is one hour later better?
<crimsun> that'll probably push him closer to uni time
<ajmitch_> 1900 is better, I think
<ajmitch_> depends on how long the meeting will be
<doko> ok, could you tell other MOTUs about it, if they are interested?
<crimsun> doko: just to clarify, this is for tomorrow (11 May), correct?
<doko> correct
<crimsun> ok
<Nafallo> ogra, tseng: tomboy should dep mono ;-)
<tseng> we know, deps are fucked up across the board
<ogra> Nafallo, if mono is fixed, the apps will depend on what they need.... currently everything is borked
<tseng> they will be fixed
<Nafallo> ofcourse they will. MOTUs rock! :-)
<Nafallo> I had to say something when I got exec: mono: not found ;-)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:koke] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | => http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList <= | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Meeting with Malone crew: 12 May 20:00 UTC | Meeting for UniverseCXXTransition: 11 May 19:00 UTC
<Nafallo> yay! works :-)
<ajmitch_> thanks koke :)
<koke> :D
<koke> I'd forget if not :)
<Nafallo> that's today :-P
<ogra> koke ?
<ajmitch_> Nafallo: yes, in < 24 hours
<koke> I need an event notification applet that works :)
<Nafallo> it's 00:51 here in CET ;-)
<ogra> koke, evo+ical :)
<crimsun> heh, I'm still using ~/TODO  :/
<ogra> koke, btw  11 May 19:00 is in more then 360 days ;)
<ajmitch_> doko: you're planning g++ 4.0 to be default in the next few days?
<doko> ajmitch_, yes
<ajmitch_> great
<crimsun> oh my.
<koke> I mean something opening the lid of my laptop and shouting, "Hey stupid, you should be at #ubuntu-motu now!!"
<koke> :D
<ogra> koke, patch evo ;)
<Nafallo> koke: I want one of those. is she cute to? :-)
<koke> I think what I need is some kind of cell-phone sized PDA
<koke> with good software to sync with ubuntu
<Nafallo> koke: naah, get a girlfriend and train here ;-)
<Nafallo> s/here/her/
<koke> Nafallo: but she's not always with me :(
<Nafallo> koke: I got the same problem til she turns 18 this autumn :-/.
<Nafallo> if I have a job then, that is.
<Unfrgiven> hey all
<Nafallo> Unfrgiven: hi there :-)
<Unfrgiven> Nafallo: hi :)
<Unfrgiven> did anyone here attend the community meeting? i was unable to attend since it was held at 2 am my time... mako & dholbach had said that my membership would be discussed but there seems to be nothing in the logs... what can i do?
<ajmitch_> hi Unfrgiven
<ajmitch_> hopefully another meeting will be scheduled at a more reasonable time
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: what sort of time frame is it expected to be held?
<ajmitch_> btw if you can crawl out of bed at 5am, there's a small meeting on the c++ transition plan tomorrow :)
<ajmitch_> Unfrgiven: not sure, sorry
<Unfrgiven> bummer... i was so pumped about it and all. i was hoping to wake up to some good news :(
* koke going to sleep
<koke> bye
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: ill try and attend that meeting tomorrow
<ajmitch_> the CC generally prefers people to be there, I think
<ajmitch_> bye koke
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: right well i guess ill just wait then :)
<ajmitch_> you can still contribute, of course :)
<ajmitch_> which will just help your case even more at the next meeting
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: just so im better informed, what are the issues surrounding the c++ transistion. people have told me on several occasions that the g++4 transition is going to be painful, but i don't know why exactly yet. i've been a windows C++ developer all these years :)
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: oh don't you worry, i have no intentions of easing up on my contributions.
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: :)
<ajmitch_> Unfrgiven: well if you know c++ then you will be much loved ;)
<ajmitch_> the issues are that g++ 4.0 is much stricter on c++ code than previous compilers
<ajmitch_> and there's plenty of sloppy coding around
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: yeah i'm fluent in my c++. its what i do at work as well... c++ development.
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: do we have a list of packages that fail to build?
<ajmitch_> great
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: or at least an automated way of determining which packages fail to build?
<ajmitch_> currently there's UniverseCxxTransition for packages which have a patch already from debian
<ajmitch_> automated way is watching the build logs once g++ 4.0 is default :)
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: and whats the usual process? put the onus on upstream to fix it or patch it ourselves?
<crimsun> the ideal situation is to work with upstream in fixing it
<crimsun> (upstream in this case being upstream and debian maintainer)
<Unfrgiven> right.
<ajmitch_> we want to carry as few patches as possible
<ajmitch_> since it makes merging new versions more mainful
<ajmitch_> s/mainful/painful/
<Unfrgiven> fair enough
<tritium> El Guapo, would you say there is a plethora of ops in #ubuntu now?
<crimsun> 6 atm, seems ok
<ajmitch_> ugh, they're saying the word
<tritium> yep
<tritium> crimsun, Just a silly quote from The Three Amigos :)
<jblack> Hi. Any motus present?
<ajmitch_> yep
<ajmitch_> what's up?
<jblack> Hi ajmitch! What's shaking?
<jblack> I need to chase down some info from whoever handles aspell-en, which is a universe package. As far as I can tell, from a cvs perspective, the sources are part of aspell.
<ajmitch_> apt-cache policy tells me it's main
<ajmitch_> but I came across this problem with another package
<ajmitch_> looks to be main
<jblack> I'm sorry, so it is.
<jblack> I got tricked because "Maintainer" is a guy at debian.
<ajmitch_> yeah, that doesn't get changed usually, which is a sore point with some debian guys now
<jblack> I guess that takes me around to about the same spot. How do I find the person that's packaging this?
<ajmitch_> there aren't really any specific maintainers, except for things like gnome, the installer, etc
<ajmitch_> so anyone who  uploads to main can take care of it
<jblack> Is there a way to tell who uploaded it to main last?
<ajmitch_>  /usr/share/doc/aspell-en/changelog.Debian.gz - looks to have been synced from debian, not changed by anyone in ubuntu
<jblack> Gotcha. Thanks for the help.
<jblack> So, how are you doing?
<ajmitch_> no problems
<ajmitch_> I'm doing alright, busy with work & uni as usual
<ajmitch_> how are you?
<jblack> Pretty darn busy. I'm vixing baz in one tty, watching the status of a big job in another tty, and chasing down aspell-en in yet another.
<ajmitch_> I've been trying to merge changes we made in hoary using MoM
<jblack> I'm not sure what MoM is.
<ajmitch_> and in a few hours we've got to sort out the plan for the C++ transition - a few hundred packages to fix
<ajmitch_> merge-o-matic
<ajmitch_> and I'm trying to learn baz
<jblack> If you ever have trouble, hunt one of us down (jblack, lifeless, bob2, ddaa). We're pretty friendly
<jblack> ...though I did let a grandmother in a wheelchair go rolling the other day...
<jblack> Anyways, I should probably get going.
<jblack> Nice talking to you again
<ajmitch_> alright, see you round
<schweeb> w00t
* schweeb reads the results of the CC meeting
<Lathiat> schweeb: congrats. :)
<schweeb> thx
* schweeb tries to figure out if he has to do anything now
<schweeb> heh
<Lathiat> schweeb: sign the CoC
<schweeb> I signed it a while ago for ubuntite and gave it to mako... not sure if he wants it again
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> thats fine then
<Lathiat> might want to remind mako about that tho
<schweeb> yea
<schweeb> he's prolly sleeping
<Lathiat> dro phim an email
<schweeb> yea
<schweeb> I should be sleeping too
<Lathiat> jej
<schweeb> I have a meeting in 7 hours
<Lathiat> heh
<schweeb> with the new bosses
<schweeb> of course the guys that come in to work at 6am every day have no problem with asking the 9am guys to come in for an early meeting... but ask them to stay late and....
<Lathiat> haha
<Unfrgiven> hi all. im currently trying to package a gnome applet. it is failing to build in pbuilder in make install-data-hook due to some omf file. can anyone help me track down the problem?
<Lathiat> Unfrgiven: no idea but as a tim try looking at the packaging of some other applet
<Lathiat> such as netapplet
<Lathiat> and comapre
<Lathiat> compare
<Unfrgiven> Lathiat: ok will do.
<dholbach> morning
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: hey dholbach
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: hey ankur, how are you?
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: im good. how about you?
<dholbach> still waking up, but fine - need to configure mutt to have some automatic mails sent out :-)
<Unfrgiven> in the CC meeting this morning, no one discussed my membership :(
<Lathiat> Unfrgiven: Where you present?
<dholbach> oh yes :-(
<Lathiat> Unfrgiven: or, were you present at the last meeting?
<Unfrgiven> Lathiat: no i was not able to be present. it was held at 2am
<dholbach> will next time suit you better?
<Lathiat> i think you have to be present at a meeting
<dholbach> 24 May 22:00 UTC
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: they seem to have skipped you, but Lathiat is right, you need to attend at least one meeting
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: not really because its at 8 in the morning... im going to have to go to work then
<Unfrgiven> but ill do what i can to make it
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: i will make a note to talk to mako
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: thanks
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: ive been looking at your fast-user-switch-applet packages
<dholbach> how is it?
<dholbach> did you incorporate your changes?
* tritium bangs his head against his desk
<dholbach> hey tritium
<tritium> hey dholbach
<Unfrgiven> very interesting actually... its the first package ive seen which just has the tarball and debian directory. a new experience :)
<dholbach> :-)
<Unfrgiven> i quite like that format of doing things
<dholbach> it looks awkward
<Lathiat> yeh i like that format too
<Lathiat> and using patch files
<dholbach> good i read the topic
<dholbach> Meeting for UniverseCXXTransition: 11 May 19:00 UTC
<dholbach> do you think i should announce it on ubuntu-devel@ as well?
<Unfrgiven> could you put it on the calendar on the wiki as well?
<dholbach> i did
<dholbach> or do you mean the .ics file?
<Unfrgiven> oh ok :) when i checked over an hour ago it wasnt there
<dholbach> i just read it 5min ago
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> hey robitaille
<robitaille> dholbach,   what is "UniverseCxxTransition"?
<dholbach> i was just about to write a mail about it to u-devel@ :-)
<robitaille> just saw your change to the calendar
<dholbach> we will transition over to gcc-4.0
<dholbach> the  g++-4.0-part  will break the ABI
<robitaille> cxx?
<dholbach> so there will be a hell lot of action (as you can see on the according wikipage)
<dholbach> i didnt give it that name :-)
<dholbach> maybe c++ didnt work :-)
<crimsun> cxx makes more sense to me anyway ;)
<dholbach> we'll discuss how to organize efforts and plan the proceedings
<robitaille> ok. Now that meeting title makes sense to me :)
<dholbach> sent themail
<ajmitch_> hi
<crimsun> re ajmitch_
<dholbach> hey ajmitch_, hey herzi
* ajmitch_ is lagging behind - hasn't done > 5 uploads today ;)
<jblack> You'll catch up.
<dholbach> hey jblack, morning!
<jblack> Morning (night for me)
<dholbach> :-)
<Lathiat> Anyone have a rough idea when someone will have time to give my bzflag package some review loving? the changes are trivial to the debian upstream.
<ajmitch_> Lathiat: when we get a round tuit
<Lathiat> just wondering if your uber busy atm or something or just rouond to it. :)
<crimsun> Lathiat: if it's trivial, pass me a url
<Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/ubuntu/
<ajmitch_> Lathiat: we generally try for a FIFO sort of scheme, with some RER thrown in ;)
<dholbach> i can only speak for myself, i'm really busy atm :-/
<dholbach> that's why i sent the "cry for help" (reviewing-wise) to ubuntu-devel@
<ajmitch_> I just finished work for the day, so I've got maybe an hour or two to spare tonight
<ajmitch_> very busy for next ~3 weeks, but got time after that
<ajmitch_> dholbach: I'll try & allocate reviewing time as well :)
<dholbach> ajmitch_: ROCKing! :-)
<crimsun> I'm definitely strapped for time for the next couple weeks, but I'll be in and out, promise
* ajmitch_ wonders if tseng still needs boost reviewed?
<crimsun> last I asked him, Riddell and amu are working on it
<crimsun> that was the week before Hoary released though
<herzi> hay all
<crimsun> hai
<ajmitch_> alright
<ajmitch_> boost is fairly comprehensive
<ajmitch_> checked - tseng's packages are older than those in breezy
* ajmitch_ wonders why the wiki is looking ugly & old skin
<ajmitch_> boost review noted..
<dholbach> did doko acknowledge or ask for the CxxTransition meeting?
<crimsun> dholbach: both
<dholbach> rock
<Lathiat> hmm bugger, cant make the Cxxtransition meeting
<dholbach> Lathiat: quite luckily the documentation is fairly comprehensive
<doko> dholbach: today (Wed) 1900 UTC
<ajmitch_> hey doko
<dholbach> doko: i'll be there
<ajmitch_> dholbach: looks like you've done a good job on reviewing the packages on MOTUToReview
<ajmitch_> I'll certainly get up & be there for it
<dholbach> they were really easy
<ajmitch_> yeah
<Lathiat> i'll try, but its 3am here, and i have uni at 10
<ajmitch_> MOTUNewPackages is a bit bigger
<ajmitch_> dholbach: what have we decided on the NEW policy after UDU?
<ajmitch_> same as before?
<dholbach> yes
* ajmitch_ sees wifi-radar to not be ubuntu-versioned
<ajmitch_> :0:> dpkg-source -x *dsc
<ajmitch_> dpkg-source: error: file wifi-radar_1.9.3-1.diff.gz has size 25907 instead of expected 1238
<ajmitch_> hmmmm
<ajmitch_> looks worrying :)
<Unfrgiven> :)
<Unfrgiven> dholbach: i've finished with fast-user-switch-applet
<Unfrgiven> im just updating the newpacakages wiki page now
<Unfrgiven> so its ready for review
<ajmitch_> great, I'll take a look
<Unfrgiven> sweet. im just updating the wiki now.. will let you know when im done
<ajmitch_> Unfrgiven: um
* ajmitch_ is still saving that wiki page
<crimsun> Lathiat: looks ok for a first pass; I'll review it more carefully later tonight
<Lathiat> crimsun: ok thanks
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: ok want to let me know when you've finished updating the page? :)
<ajmitch_> Unfrgiven: done, fetching your source for review
<dholbach> Unfrgiven: excellent
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: thanks.
<Unfrgiven> hmmm where is the edit linkfor the page gone? i thought all users have permissions?
<ajmitch_> all logged in users do
<ajmitch_> maybe the page was still locked from me? :)
<ajmitch_> fusa 0.2.2-0ubuntu1?
<Unfrgiven> you'd prefer it have a shorter name?
<Unfrgiven> page is still locked
<ajmitch_> no, I just don't like to type when I'm busy ;)
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: hehe
<Lathiat> heh
<ajmitch_> mm, cdbs with tarball in tarball
<Treenaks> \o/
<dholbach> yes \o/
<Unfrgiven> what does "\o/" mean?!?
* ajmitch_ might suggest tightening build-depends on debhelper & cdbs to appropriate versions
<ajmitch_> should gdm be a build-depend?
<Unfrgiven> no
<ajmitch_> ok
* ajmitch_ hasn't tried building, just reading so far :)
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: gdm would be a bad build-depend
<Unfrgiven> hence the options to configure
<ajmitch_> it would be a very nasty build-depend
<ajmitch_> I was just checking that the configure options didn't require gdm as well
<Unfrgiven> :)
<Unfrgiven> ok wiki pages are still locked... ill have to try editing it some other time
* ajmitch_ can edit it?
<ajmitch_> odd
<Unfrgiven> nup
<ajmitch_> you are logged in?
<Unfrgiven> could my account be locked out or something?
<Unfrgiven> yes im logged in
<ajmitch_> maybe you have to beg jdub
<Unfrgiven> maybe
<ajmitch_> the wiki si looking awfully ugly like it used to
<ajmitch_> like it lost the new skin
<Unfrgiven> theres a new skin?
<Unfrgiven> anyways ive gotta go... indoor cricket awaits :)
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: could you please paste your comments here or private message me?
<ajmitch_> sure
<ajmitch_> I'll put comments on the wiki as well, if you want
<ajmitch_> have fun at cricket
<ajmitch_> hi ivoks
<ajmitch_> hey chmj
<Unfrgiven> k thanks
<Unfrgiven> gnite all
<chmj> hiya ajmitch_
<dholbach> bye guys!
<\sh> morning
<ajmitch_> hi \sh
<ajmitch_> how are you?
<\sh> back is ok right now, and I slept quite well, yes :) it's ok :)
<ajmitch_> great :)
<\sh> waiting for my SI server to import data for several services and then I wanted to make SER lintian clean ;)
<\sh> and finally i'm waiting to close my assigned bugs on malone, but I can't see them :( cause "system error occured"
<ajmitch_> I just noticed I was mentioned on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat
* ajmitch_ fears the #ubuntu pit :)
<\sh> i have doubts that it will work like that
<ajmitch_> well it'll still be open for discussion
<\sh> ajmitch_: we can't change the ppl :( and this is our issue...not the protocol, not the ops, the ppl ;)
<ajmitch_> of course, it's always a problem
<ajmitch_> but we have to still be able to have a decent community somehow
<Treenaks> yay! ipv6 works again with 2.6.12!
<Lathiat> never stopped for me
<Lathiat> what use case?
<Treenaks> Lathiat: see -devel
<ajmitch_> about the only ipv6 I've known of is poor source address selection
<ajmitch_> s/ipv6/ipv6 issue/
<Treenaks> ajmitch_: my problem was that autoconfig didn't work
<ajmitch_> right
<tseng> ajmitch_: the kubuntu guys were supposed to review that
<tseng> ajmitch_: and mark it off
<Lathiat> tseng: beagle is love, you rock
<ogra> tseng, how is the mono ststus ?
<ogra> tseng, dh_clidebs still has issues, even with monodis in place
<tseng> it always had issues
<ogra> it seems to pick the wrong path to the binary
<tseng> is it just as bad?
<ogra> nope, its just a scripting issue now
<tseng> k
<tseng> i am running low on free time :(
<Lathiat> isnt everyone
<ogra> any idea how to solve the monodis thing ? i'll do it, i prefer that you work on f-spot or monodevelop 0.6 instead of doing boring maintenance/bugfixing work :)
<tseng> Lathiat: where's your name on breezy goals? :P
<tseng> f-spot would be ready to go if libgnome-cil had the right deps
<ogra> yeah, where is your nme on the MOTU wiki ?
<tseng> stupid thing
<ogra> oki, i'll try to sort that out today
<Lathiat> next to one package with a slight build fix to be review :>
<tseng> ogra: you rock
<ogra> :)
<Lathiat> i have other things im running short on time for, like avahi et al
<tseng> i tried to re-autotool it yesterday bye daniels suggestion
<tseng> it still has the script
* ajmitch_ is currently testing a qemu build, continuing with hoary/sid/breezy merges
<tseng> mmm, merges
<ajmitch_> yep
<ogra> tseng, worst case i'll do a rm in the rules file ;)
<ajmitch_> I've got a list of 300 packages or so to work on
<tseng> ogra: yeah i should have done that last night
<ajmitch_> shouldn't take more than a couple of weeks to get through 50% of them ;)
<tseng> is that all :(
<ogra> heh... but thats insane... i'll do it only if i cant find another solution
<tseng> it will definately still miss things
<ajmitch_> 93 report as cleanly patching, but that doesn't mean they build
<tseng> but it should do *something* :P
* ajmitch_ has found a few that fail so far, like ethereal :)
<tseng> mm dont break that
<tseng> need it at work
<Mithrandir> if somebody feels bored and has an amd64, nmap fails when logging to a file.
<ogra> oh
* ogra is a bit busy getting mono in shape for amd64.... 
<ogra> but if i find the time i'll look at it
<ajmitch_> qemu build failure, as expected..
* ajmitch_ re-adds zlib builddep
<schweeb> my head hurts
<tseng> oh man
<tseng> i knew that picture on planet gnome was mine
<tseng> thats how he did it
<ajmitch_> the luis pic?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> he actually flipped his other ear
<tseng> mine was not a full shot
<ajmitch_> yeah, I thought it was well done
<tseng> i looked at it and thought, that cant be mine
<tseng> he must make that face alot
<tseng> and then i saw the incoming link to my site
<tseng> i like my caption better
<tseng> you know.. we should make that the planet ubuntu meme
<tseng> do different edits on that photo
<ajmitch_> qemu == crack
<schweeb> which photo is this, tseng?
<ajmitch_> error: unable to find a register to spill in class GENERAL_REGS
<tseng> schweeb: http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=21
<schweeb> tseng: got approved for membership yesterday
<schweeb> hah
<tseng> good job
<tseng> time for shower -
<tseng> then work
<schweeb> curse these early meetings
<schweeb> already did the shower, have to head to work right now
<schweeb> (it's 6:38am here) :(
<tseng> you dont need to attend meetings, you are the tape mover
<schweeb> I'll move your tapes, bish
* schweeb leaves
<dholbach> re
<ogra> hey dholbach
<ogra> dholbach, why didnt you crosspost the announcement to all mailing lists ?
<ogra> (i think its a good idea to carry the motu announcement to -users)
<dholbach> hey ogra...yeah next time
<ogra> s/announcement/announcements
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch_> hey dholbach  :)
<ajmitch_> how are you?
<dholbach> hey ajmitch_, thanks fine :-)
<dholbach> you?
<ajmitch_> I'm ok
<ajmitch_> just fighting packages again :)
* ajmitch_ ought to go to bed soon, with an early MOTU meetup & all
<\sh> hola dholbach
<dholbach> hellas \sh
<\sh> do we have professional manpage creators? ,-)
<dholbach> no... everybody should share the pain
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> i use the xml template given by dh-make
<\sh> dholbach: me too :)
<dholbach> and use the funky xsltproc line in it
<ajmitch_> heh
<ajmitch_> pain is of no matter to a MOTU..
* \sh is a fan of BDSM ;)
<ajmitch_> nasty
<ajmitch_> libfltk1.1-dev having a debconf entry, asking if I'd like lowercase symlinks...
<ajmitch_> *crack*
<dholbach> nice :-)
* ajmitch_ has now just about done more breezy uploads than hoary ;)
<chmj> rock!
<ogra> yay
<dholbach> :-)
<ajmitch_> not very hard - hoary was rather quiet for me :)
<dholbach> i wish i had more time... :-/
* ajmitch_ also
<ajmitch_> hi darkaudit
<dholbach> that's why i'm off now... doing some thesis stuff
<darkaudit> mornin' :)
* ajmitch_ is finishing up at university in these next 3-5 weeks
<dholbach> hey darkaudit
<dholbach> ajmitch_: then you're completely finished?
<ajmitch_> yep
<dholbach> ROCK!
* ajmitch_ mutters about broken patches :)
<dholbach> any exams to write? thesis? something still coming on?
<ajmitch_> exams in june
<ajmitch_> only 3
<dholbach> i'll cross my fingers for you then
* ajmitch_ sees that the patch was caused by conflicting ubuntu & debian changes :)
<ajmitch_> yay, can just request sync
<\sh> what was the url of the build reports?
<tseng> go to packages.ubuntu.com and search your package
<tseng> there is a link to the log
<ajmitch_> people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
<Lathiat> is there a list of the ongoing-merge packages needing intervention
* ajmitch_ has a list
<Lathiat> can i have the list?
<Lathiat> looking for stuff to tend to...
<ajmitch_> then I'll have nothing to do ;)
<ajmitch_> http://ajmitch.dhis.org/debuild/ubuntu/merge-tool/source_list
<ajmitch_> that list was made a couple of days ago - I haven't remade it yet
<Lathiat> ajmitch_: so did you want a hand ?
<ajmitch_> if you want to do something, go ahead
<ajmitch_> a lot of these are basically check the diff & upload
<ajmitch_> which is hard to do if you can't upload :)
<ajmitch_> but there's plenty that don't apply cleanly
<Lathiat> yarr
<Lathiat> i'll scout around
<ajmitch_> Lathiat: http://ajmitch.dhis.org/debuild/ubuntu/merge-tool/source_list.20050511.2325 for the latest
<Lathiat> thanks
<ajmitch_> recent autosyncs seem to have removed a few that were just lagged
<ajmitch_> sleep time, got to get up for the meeting tomorrow if I can :)
<\sh> hmmm....
<\sh> postrm
<\sh> purge or remove
<\sh> if I'm doing a apt-get remove <package> which trigger is used...purge or remove? ,-)
<ajmitch_> remove
<ajmitch_> purge is when the --purge option is used
* ajmitch_ departs, night all
<\sh> hmm...lemme read this in the manual ;)
<\sh> i should go to another english course
<jabra> gmorning linuxland
<jabra> I am going to remake my packages so please don't review them until I am done
<Nafallo> morning all
<\sh> hi Nafallo
* Nafallo reads through his mail ;-)
<Nafallo> I should go to finish english so that I can be here 2100 CET :-P
<\sh> 1900 utc meeting right?
<ogra> nope, 21:00 CET
<ogra> :)
<willis> I'm interested in packaging up grecipe-manager (gourmet) but reading through the debian packaging docs, I'm not sure how to build the package as it's written in python and as such lacks make files etc...
<\sh> ogra: don't confuse me now, i know that 1900 utc == 21:00 GMT+2 ;)
<ogra> willis, i'm not sure, but i think its already packaged...
<willis> i just checked and i can't find it via apt-cache, and it's listed in the universe wish list
<ogra> willis, yes, but there are pending packages that wait for review
<willis> ogra, ah ok
<ogra> just diggin through the wiki pages...
<Mithrandir> ogra: 21:00 CEST, not CET.
<ogra> ouch
<\sh> another SER build cycle
<ogra> willis, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages
<willis> ogra, ah i see, thanks anyway
<ogra> willis, but tritium (MichaelRimbert) is short of time, i dont know if he will have the time to go on with it, probably you could take over his work (its even easier to learn packaging on a existing package)
<ogra> willis, just talk to him if he's around :)
<willis> ogra, cool thanks
<willis> ogra, i just sent off an e-mail, inquiring about possibly relieving him of the package if he so wished
<\sh> fifth build cycle for ser
<jabra> I have a few errors I am not sure if they should stop me from submiting
<jabra> E: getwifi_0.1-ubuntu1_i386.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file breezy
<jabra> W: getwifi: binary-without-manpage getwifi
<jabra> E: getwifi: changelog-not-compressed-with-max-compression changelog.gz
<jabra> however I did dh_installman for getwifi already
<ivoks> ok... wifi-radar is ok now
<ivoks> changelog should be compressed with max compression?
<jabra> I dunno
<\sh> jabra: you try to build breezy packages under hoary?
<jabra> ya
<\sh> jabra: thats the first error E: getwifi_0.1-ubuntu1_i386.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file breezy
<\sh> jabra: u need the breezy lintian
<jabra> o ok
<\sh> the second warning you can get rid of it, in writing a manpage :)
<jabra> that would exaplin it
<\sh> .
<\sh> and it's a pain, yes ,)
<jabra> \sh: I wrote the man page
<jabra> I just did dh_installman
<\sh> jabra: oh ok :)
<jabra> but still has the warning
<jabra> and wat about the third?
<ivoks> \sh man pages are important?] 
<jabra> heh
<ivoks> i guess for GUI only apps, they are obsolete
<jabra> umm no
<jabra> what about things like gimp?
<jabra> or xmms?
<jabra> man pages are diffinatly important
<ivoks> yeah, but there you have sitches
<jabra> huh
<ivoks> switches
<ivoks> gimp -v
<ivoks> etc
<\sh> jabra: whats the name of the binary? it should match the name of the manpage...or vice versa is better ;)
<jabra> manpage is getwifi.1
<jabra> binary is getwifi
<\sh> jabra: and u have a file named: <package>.manpages where u name the manpage?
<ivoks> i will not write man pages :)
<ivoks> not in this life :)
<\sh> ivoks: docbook2man ;)
<jabra> life to short for ya?
<\sh> then u write docbook docs ;)
<jabra> \sh: ya
<ivoks> jabra I have better things to do :)
<jabra> don't we all
<ivoks> let's dump manpages
<ivoks> vote :)
<\sh> ivoks: ok...lets change manpages to womanpages
<\sh> woman woman ;)
<ivoks> i agree :)
<ivoks> woman man
<ivoks> :))
<\sh> jabra: hmmm...
<jabra> umm I changed sourlist to breezey update then install lintian and nothing new was found?
<\sh> jabra: u r working in a chroot?
<jabra> nope
<ogra> willis, great :)
<\sh> jabra: work in a chroot
<\sh> jabra: it's better
<jabra> ok
<\sh> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DebootstrapChroot
<jabra> ya I know
<ivoks> why didn't i think of that? :)
<jabra> didn't read the man page?
<ivoks> well... breezy is ok, not to unstable :)
<\sh> ivoks: of what?
<ivoks> \sh debootstrap
<\sh> ivoks: dunno :)
<ivoks> \sh me too :)
<ivoks> i guess... car accident messed up my head
<\sh> ivoks: i thought of it, cause I need a stable working system and an unstable playing system ;)
<jabra> so I should use the chroot to install pacakges from breezy
<\sh> cause there is no other machine to work with right now..only my beloved nc6000
<ivoks> \sh i was allways playing and working on unstable, so this is isn't big deal to me :)
<ivoks> \sh nice... i have i8600
<jabra> I have 5150
<\sh> ivoks: after gentoo I'll never install a unstable system on a production pc anymore :( i have enough of the sh*t
<ivoks> \sh even stable gentoo is PITA
<\sh> ivoks: ah no...:)
<ivoks> i had it on laptop for couple of months
<\sh> me too :)
<\sh> for more then one year ;)
<ivoks> compiling, flags, gcc... that;s nice
<ivoks> but...
<ivoks> i don't have time for compiling oofice whole night just to open it 2-3 times
<ivoks> and if i use precompiled packages... then... what's the point?
<jabra> \sh: so I should install breezy lintian in the chroot?
<\sh> jabra: do a complete breezy bootstrap :)
<ivoks> there are couple of nice things in gentoo that ubuntu should take and reuse... but i like debs, allways loved them, never looked anything other since switching to potato :)
<\sh> jabra: so u can build packages without anything breaking
<\sh> ivoks: e.g.
<jabra> \sh: ya good idea
<ivoks> \sh network scripts
<ivoks> \sh gentoo has great network scripts... when i fiered wifi up, it allways connected to network I wanted
<ivoks> without any arguments or switches
<\sh> ivoks: u mean those /etc/conf.d/net and /etc/init.d/net.<netdev>N?
<ivoks> \sh yeah
<ivoks> that allways worked
<ivoks> i pluged my lap in network without DHCP
<ivoks> like that's problem for gentoo, it just found subnet that was in use and pick one free IP :)
<\sh> ivoks: well...i think it has more to do with the "config" of debian network system
<\sh> ivoks: with a little bit of work efford we will be able to do it like gentoo ...:)
<ivoks> \sh i know...
<ivoks> \sh let's try
<ivoks> this mapping thing in ubuntu isn't working good
<ivoks> i tried that same tool on debian... never worked ok
<Lathiat> mapping thing?
<ogra> network manager will solve it all
<ivoks>  /etc/network/interfaces
<ivoks> mapping hotplug
<\sh> ivoks: same here...i have dsl at home and dhcp at work...and try to use guessnet in interfaces but it didn't work
<ivoks> ogra i hope
<ogra> oh, i thought yu talk about mapping the interfaces :)
<ivoks> ogra we are
<ogra> like /etc/iftab does
<ivoks> no, not that :))
<ogra> :)
<jabra> E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/breezy.buildd
<ogra> but anyway, MN will solve most of the issues with networkin
<ogra> NM even
<ivoks> ogra and that /etc/iftab
<ivoks> it's worng at my laptop
<ogra> is it ?
<ivoks> i don't know were he get's idea that my wifi is eth1
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> it's eth2
<ogra> my wifi isnt even known by the kernel :)
<ogra> but used as eth1
<ivoks> poor ogra
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i have eth0 for lan
<ogra> nah, it works, thats what counts
<ivoks> eth1 for firewire
<ivoks> and eth2 for wifi
<ogra> i dont need to see vendor or product id
<ivoks> then it works...
<ivoks> i tought it doesn't
<ivoks> ogra how do you meen kernel doesn't recognise it?
<ogra> i cant see it in lspci or in hal.... but its there as a device...
<ivoks> lspci says unknown device or just doesn't list it?
<ogra> it doesnt list it
<ivoks> try lsusb ;)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> broken laptop :) as big as ogras laptop is, no wonder ;)
<ivoks> it isn't
<ivoks> some laptops have wifi connected to usb
<ogra> \sh, its not the internal card :)
<ivoks> ah...
<ivoks> ogra ;P
<ogra> ivoks, its a pcmcia card that should show up either in hal or in lspci....
<ivoks> ogra in lspci? not so sure...
<ogra> but at least cardmgr creates the dvice for it
<ogra> ivoks, yep
<ivoks> but, i never connected anything to PCMCIA, so I don't know that right
<ogra> ivoks, real pcmcia registers as pci
<ogra> az least from a kernel POV
<\sh> hmm...and what about my isdn pcmcia? it's not recognized by the kernel nor by isdn drivers
<ogra> \sh, t could be a cardbus card (thats not showing up as pci)
<\sh> ogra: xircom isdn adapter
<ogra> hmm
<zul> hey
<ogra> hi zul
<ivoks> strange...
<ivoks> i can rename file with mv
<ivoks> but i can't in nautilus
<ivoks> Daan mp32ogg
<Treenaks> wow, you must like bad quality sound
<ivoks> it's not for mee :)
<ivoks> i have problem... i have a lot of oggs, and my mp3 player can play only mp3 and wma
<Treenaks> ivoks: you got the wrong player then :)
<willis> ivoks, get an iRiver
<ivoks> who will pay for it? :)
<willis> good question
<ivoks> ups...
<ivoks> woho! time for paycheck :)
<jabra> anyone know how to remove a debootstap chroot?
<ivoks> exit
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> rm -r `
<ivoks> just type exit
<jabra> ok
<ogra> ctrl-d
<jabra> well if wanta kill the deboostp
<jabra> can't remove dev
<jabra> wow debootstrap and chroot, awesome
* ajmitch_ wanders in
* darkaudit wanders out... haircut time :)
<\sh> something is happening here in our company
<ajmitch_> something good?
<\sh> i don't know .. chief of engineering is very strange
<ivoks> what?
<ivoks> riots? :)
<ivoks> fight?
<\sh> nono
* ajmitch_ can't sleep, goes back to patch-wrangling
<ajmitch_> oh my
<ajmitch_> a debian package that has a patch for a CAN, that doesn't get applied :)
<\sh> a CAN?
<ajmitch_> security advisory
<ajmitch_> the ubuntu package has the same patch, only applied correctly :)
<\sh> hmm
<Lathiat> haha whats this for
<ajmitch_> Lathiat: grip
<ivoks> bye guys
<jabra> is when I get errors from debuild does all the text get swipped
<jabra> and how cna I fix this
<ajmitch_> ?
<jabra> when I run debuild
<jabra> and get warnings
<jabra> if I ctrl+c I see no text anymore
<jabra> not sure why
<ajmitch_> aha, odd
<ajmitch_> hi koke
<koke> hi !
<ajmitch_> jabra: typing reset at the command line should fix it
<jabra> I will try
<jabra> is there a fix though?
<ajmitch_> I don't know, I've never seen that behaviour
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> strange thing.
<\sh> after debuild lintian says: wrong distribution in changes file
<\sh> never saw this
<\sh> and jabra is tru
<\sh> e
<ogra> \sh, seen koke on -devel ? lintian patch is on its way :)
<koke> :D
<\sh> ah sorry...didn't see :)
<\sh> thx koke :)
<\sh> jabra: there u r...wait for the patch :)
<\sh> jabra: ah..and add a file "debian/manpages" with the "getwifi.1"
<\sh> in it...so it's not complaining anymore about this
<koke> argh, linda's info is nasty
<ajmitch_> koke: I guess you'll have to find a willing sponsor for main uploads (hint: ogra) ;)
<koke> if there's no translation you only get a "cdbs-debhelper-build-dep-too-old_l"
<jabra> \sh: awesome
<jabra> \sh: is does it build properly?
<jabra> \sh: what was wrong?
<ajmitch_> anyway, off to try & sleep again before the meeting :)
<jabra> \sh: is my comp fucz0red
<\sh> jabra: linitian bug for "unknown distribution" ;)
<jabra> heh
<\sh> jabra: no...:)
<jabra> heh
<jabra> k
<\sh> missing manpages file
<jabra> I did dh_installman though?
<koke> ajmitch_: lintian_1.23.6ubuntu2_source.changes REJECTED :)
<ogra> oops
<ogra> koke, put it up somewhere....
<koke> http://amedias.org/~koke/debian/breezy/
<\sh> jabra: doesn't matter :) u need to have it in debian/manpages
<\sh> jabra: installman doesn't know anything about your manpage at all ;)
<jabra> ok
<jabra> so I add the file to manpage by hand?
<\sh> vi debian/manpages <I>getwifi.1<ESC><Z><Z>
<jabra> ya
<jabra> heh
<ogra> koke, i get a 404 on the .changes
<jabra> well if you put it that way
<\sh> and this strange "changelog compression bla" stuff...never saw it before
<jabra> heh
<jabra> ya I know
<ogra> koke, hmm, together with a 403 (forbidden)
<\sh> ok...time to prepare myself to go home
<koke> ogra: only the .changes I guess
<jabra> \sh: should I rebuild or wait becuase I will need to fix the other warnrings /errors?
<ogra> yep
<koke> it's mini-dinstall weirdness
<\sh> jabra: wait for the fix :)
<jabra> ok
<jabra> so that will be in breezy later today?
<jabra> or tomorrow?
<koke> chown_changes_files
<koke>               Determines if the changes files should be made unreadable by others. This is enabled by default, and is a good  thing,  since
<koke>               somebody else could unexpectedly upload your package. Think carefully before changing this.
<ogra> hrm
<koke> I think I should change this, since I upload by scp
<ogra> yep...
<koke> all readable now :D
<ogra> uploaded
<koke> someone has compiled NetworkManager??
<koke> NetworkManagerDbus.c:1034: error: 'DBUS_INTERFACE_DBUS' undeclared (first use in this function)
<ogra> koke, thoms baby
<ogra> koke, but dbus is broken atm
<ogra> (at least thats what i heard)
<koke> http://people.ubuntu.com/~thom/network-manager/ I see
<koke> but he has 0.3, and I am trying with 0.4
<koke> I remember now... that's why I'm using netapplet :D
<ogra> thom is also working on 0.4 afaik... this packages are old
<koke> well, have to go now
<koke> see you at meeting
<ogra> <ep
<ogra> yep
<koke> btw, do you know http://www.miketech.net/gnome-art/ ??
<koke> it looks nice but it's ruby-gnome
<Amaranth> it's in universe
<koke> I'm not sure how to package that :D
<koke> ouch!
<Amaranth> but it requires ruby-gnome things that aren't in ubuntu
<Amaranth> i got them from debian so i could try it out
<koke> but it works??
<Amaranth> yeah, it works
<koke> err, the deps are in ubuntu, but in a lower version
<koke> a sync would be enough??
<diamond> lo folks
<Amaranth> koke: yeah, it should be
<Amaranth> koke: ubuntu has 0.11 versions, gnome-art needs 0.12 versions
<koke> Amaranth: are you sure it *really* needs them?? ;)
<koke> (just trying)
<Amaranth> koke: No clue, grab the source and change the dependencies
<koke> ok
<koke> have to go *now*
<koke> bye
<thom> s/old/ancient/, wrt NM
<dholbach> re
<\sh> re
* diamond flees
<dholbach> whiprush: something with your signed key went wrong
<dholbach> gpg: encrypted with 4096-bit ELG-E key, ID 64AB0B32, created 2003-06-17
<dholbach>       "Matthias Urlichs <smurf@smurf.noris.de>"
<dholbach> gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available
<whiprush> from the other day?
<dholbach> that's what i got
<dholbach> from today
<whiprush> yeah
<whiprush> I know, I messed it up at UDU.
<dholbach>  igot the mail some minutes ago
<dholbach> ah no
<dholbach> apr 30
<dholbach> strange
<dholbach> i received it today
<dholbach> funny :-)
<whiprush> yeah I totally messed up the script right after the key signing.
<whiprush> and I spammed everyone with my newbness.
<dholbach> don't worry
<whiprush> I'm doing it right sometime today though
<dholbach> just thought: this one must be ok
<dholbach> brb
<herve> hi!
<jabra> who is going to fix the linitian bug that I found
<ogra> jabra, already fixed
<ogra> jabra, (if you mean the wrong distribution warning)
<jabra> yep
<jabra> awesome
<jabra> thanks
<jabra> any idea about the gzip error?
<ogra> jabra, thank koke for it ;)
<jabra> koke thanks though your not online
<jabra> ogra: not seeing an update in breezy?
<siretart> hi
<ogra> jabra, http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/2005-May/004539.html
<jabra> ok cool thanks
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  why register and identify?  your IRC nick is how people know you.  http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<dholbach> hey siretart
<siretart> huhu dholbach
<siretart> meeting in an hour, right?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> ogra, tseng: <mjg59> It (beagle) doesn't even depend on mono, which isn't a great start :)
<Treenaks> dholbach: that's nothing.. if you DO have mono, it won't start because of:
<Treenaks> Unhandled Exception: System.DllNotFoundException: libMonoPosixHelper.so
<dholbach> ah... yes
<ogra> dholbach, but you've seen my answer to it ?
<dholbach> yeah, but i'd fix it manually
<dholbach> even if dh_whatever doesnt work
<ogra> mono's build process is fucked, the debhelper doesnt work because essential binary parts are missing in mono itself.... there is nothing to fix except mono
<dholbach> ok
<ogra> after that the debhelper will work again :)
<\sh> back from relaxing
<ivoks> going to fix some HOWTOs on wiki :)
<Treenaks> ok.. that's a "no" for suspend support..
<Treenaks> *sigh*
<ivoks> there
<ivoks> Treenaks ?
<ivoks> look what I have found
<Treenaks> ivoks: oh.. LaptopSupport
<ivoks> file is: README
<ivoks> and it says:
<ivoks> Installing Red Hat Triteal CDE for Linux is easy.
<ivoks> the ideal installation environment would be a working Red Hat 4.2
<ivoks> 4.2 :)
<ivoks> Treenaks what laptop?
<Treenaks> ivoks: Acer Aspire 1680
<Treenaks> (1684 actually)
<\sh> hahahha
<\sh> redhat 4.2?
<ivoks> yeah :)
<abarbaccia> hey guys - i think something is wrong with the packaging of the kernels - my synaptic just upgraded me to a non-smp kernel - when i have the smp kernel packages installed
<\sh> that was before glibc transistion ;)
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> you get gcc 2.7 with it :)
<\sh> i think they mean 7.2
<abarbaccia> anybody here know what im talking about?
<ivoks> nope
<ivoks> ano domini 1997 :)
<ivoks> May 1997
<ivoks> Treenaks and where does suspend fails?
<crimsun> abarbaccia: err...?
<Treenaks> ivoks: it suspend-to-ram fine, but it doesn't wake up
<ivoks> Treenaks ipw2200?
<ivoks> nvidia?
<ivoks> are you using nvidia driver?
<Treenaks> ivoks: ipw2200, ati
<ivoks> Treenaks edit /etc/default/acpi-support
<ivoks> Treenaks and comment out SAVE_VBE_STATE
<Treenaks> ivoks: yeah.. but it should work by default :)
<Treenaks> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LaptopTesting
<ivoks> Treenaks and VBESTATE
<ivoks> Treenaks it works out of the box
<ivoks> Treenaks you don't have out of the box machine, you installated fglrx
<Treenaks> ivoks: no, I have to edit a config file. so it doesn't work out of the box.
<ivoks> did you install fglrx?
<abarbaccia> crimsun, i have the SMP kernel and header packages installed  - the container packages which are susposed to upgrade to an smp kernel - except they just installed a non-smp kernel
<Treenaks> ivoks: yes, but I'm not using it atm
<ivoks> Treenaks belive me...
<ivoks> Treenaks it worked for me, untill i installed nvidia drivers
<ivoks> then same simptomes like yours
<Treenaks> ivoks: it should still work :)
<Treenaks> ivoks: imho
<ivoks> Treenaks no
<ivoks> Treenaks nvidia drivers don't support vbe
<ivoks> i think ATIs driver support even less
<Treenaks> ivoks: you don't understand me. it SHOULD work. that it doesn't is a grave bug.
<ivoks> Treenaks write to nvidia
<crimsun> abarbaccia: which, linux-meta? linux-686?
<Treenaks> ivoks: won't help, I have ati ;)
<ivoks> Treenaks than write to ATI
<Treenaks> ivoks: *sigh*
<whiprush> dholbach: around still?
<dholbach> whiprush: yes
<Treenaks> ivoks: ok, another problem: I have a SD card reader, which is in "ATA mode" (according to TI docs, and my investigations)
<Treenaks> ivoks: (it's a PCI device)
<Treenaks> ivoks: who do I poke to make THAT work
<ivoks> no!!! who reviewd wifi-radar? :)
<abarbaccia> yes
<abarbaccia> crimsun, its linux-686-smp
<ivoks> .diff.gz doesn't match what is listed in .dsc?
<herve> md5sum mismatch?
<ivoks> could be
<whiprush> dholbach: ok, you should receive the proper key thinger from me any second now
<crimsun> abarbaccia: what version is now installed?
<whiprush> I think I got it right this time
<dholbach> whiprush: rock
<whiprush> but I'm testing on you first. :)
<whiprush> before I spam the planet.
<abarbaccia> crimsun, i think i found it - i had linux 386 container package still installed - it probably saw that one first and upgraded accordingly
<ivoks> wait a second...
<ivoks> i changed source of wifi-radar
<dholbach> ivoks: try to build the source package again, if you have a non-working clean target in debian/rules it may have been spammed
<ivoks> i can't build source couse there is no source
<ivoks> it's only two-three files
<whiprush> dholbach: it come out right?
<ivoks> it's ascript
<tritium> greetings, friends
<dholbach> hey tritium
<dholbach> whiprush: just a sec
<tritium> Hi dholbach, how is your day?
<\sh> ohh...so late...have to shower before the meeting starts ;) have to smell fresh, so everyone knows that i'm alive ;)
<dholbach> busy, but ok
<dholbach> hows yours?
<tritium> Same.
<ivoks> herve could you help me out a bit?
<ivoks> herve if I change program, what should I provide? original source with diff or changed source?
<dholbach> whiprush: worked perfectly fine
<tritium> ogra, I got an email from Marin Monroe re: gourmet
<ogra> tritium, yep...
<ogra> tritium, he attempted to package it, i told him to rather contact you about it...
<jabra> E: getwifi: changelog-not-compressed-with-max-compression changelog.gz
<ivoks> anyone? :) it's a simple question :)
<jabra> how would I fix that
<tritium> ogra, okay, thanks.  Do you have a preference on how I respond?
<whiprush> dholbach: thanks!
<abarbaccia> crimsun, problem solved
<ogra> tritium, as you like :)
<ivoks> jabra gzip -9
<jabra> ok cool
<jabra> thanks
<tritium> ogra, okay, thank you.  I'll give it some thought before responding to him.
<tritium> Do you recall his nick?
<jabra> ivoks: deb diff.gz dsc orig
<ivoks> jabra ?
<jabra> ivoks: ?
<\sh> ivoks: its an debhelper script problem...:)
<ivoks> this with gzip?
<jabra> that is the answer to your question
<ivoks> jabra ah.. so original source with diff?
<jabra> deb, diff.gz, dsc, orig.tar.gz
<jabra> ivoks: ok that solved that error for me
<ivoks> ok.. but in my dsc is the source I changed (wifi-radar_1.9.3-0ubuntu1.tar.gz) not original (wifi-radar-1.9.3.tar.gz)
<ivoks> how do I fix that?
<jabra> mv it and recreate it
<ivoks> that shouldn't be done manually...
<jabra> how should it be done?
<\sh> ivoks: jepp...in hoary and before an update it was working in breezy and linitian
<ivoks> maybe it's too late and I don't understand you guys...
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> ivoks: linitian complains about less compression for gzip when gzipping changelog ;)
<\sh> ivoks: it didn't do this in hoary or in breezy, well yesterday it didn't complain for my packages here
<jabra> huh
<\sh> ok forget about showering
<Nafallo> what channel for the meeting?
<\sh> standard: #ubuntu-meeting
<Nafallo> hi btw :-)
<ogra> \sh, is it you who smells this strong here in the room ?
<Nafallo> \sh: k, thx :-)
<\sh> ogra: well...not directly me...but your and my feet?
<ogra> lol
<ivoks> ok..
<ivoks> is it better now? :)
<\sh> ogra: read http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/59459?
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu
<ivoks> i'll never package again :)
<\sh> ivoks: now u need an own repository :) ever played with mini-dinstall? ,-)
<\sh> oh coffee is needed...
<Nafallo> \sh: coffeine, nice idea...
<ivoks> \sh never, but here we go :)
<\sh> ivoks: if it helps: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LocalAptGetRepositories
<herve> ivoks, you still need me?
<herve> no way to cook without being disturbed here :-)
<\sh> herve: i hope no frogs?
<herve> \sh, don't be insultive :-)
<\sh> herve: sorry :) wasn't meant to be personal :)
<ivoks> herve :)
<ivoks> herve well, maybe not
<ivoks> the way I see it now, in .dsc should be upstream source and diff to my source?
<ivoks> right?
<herve> ?
<herve> dsc it automatically built, why do you wonder?
<ivoks> couse my package was rejected couse of dsc
<herve> you must have bypassed something else
<herve> can I get that pacakge?
<ivoks> in my dsc was only .tar.gz
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu
<herve> *fear*
<koke> meeting here??
<herve> you mean a debian native package?
<herve> meeting...
<ivoks> ?
<herve> koke, #ubuntu-meeting
<ivoks> damn...
<koke> hey, it seems gnome-art works with the avaliable libglade2-ruby and libgconf2-ruby versions in breezy
<koke> btw, it's a painful program
<herve> ivoks, point me to your source package
<koke> click on backgrounds and it'll start downloading 544 backgrounds without a fuckin' cancel button!!
<ivoks> herve http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/wifi-radar_1.9.3-0ubuntu1.tar.gz
<herve> koke, young app?
<ivoks> herve this isn't upstreem source, i changed couple of things in it
<koke> herve: sure :)
<herve> ivoks, source package means tgz+diff.gz+dsc :-)
<ivoks> herve ok
<ivoks> herve tgz should be upstream?
<koke> I'll try to learn some ruby to patch it :)
<herve> ivoks, sure
<herve> and debian dir + patches in the diff.gz
<ivoks> herve and diff is changes
<herve> then debian source control, dsc
<ivoks> i have all that
<ivoks> but
<ivoks> dpkg-buildpackage
<ivoks> creates dsc and changes with list of files
<ivoks> on that list is my source, not upstream
<herve> are you the upstream author?
<ivoks> herve http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/ you have all that files
<ivoks> herve no
<herve> *great fear*
<herve> upstream provides a debian dir?
<ivoks> no
<ivoks> :)
<herve> ok I get the problem
<ivoks> it's simple program, doesn't even have compile... it's a script
<jabra> mine is too
<herve> how a debian dir got into the tarball if upstream doesn't provide it... :-)
<ivoks> i created it :)
<herve> jabra, a native package?
<ivoks> herve that's what I'm saying
<jabra> it is a script
<ivoks> herve tar.gz is my source, not upstream
<herve> ivoks, if you put the debian dir into it, you act as the upstream author and made it a native package
<ivoks> maybe i did something wrong?
<herve> which are two bad things
<ivoks> so, how do I create deb from simple source?
<ivoks> i created debian dir in that source and build a package
<herve> before we started
<herve> I made the same mistake with my first package :-)
<jabra> heh
<ivoks> ok, so this is normal :)
<jabra> ya I am going through it too
<herve> ivoks, but no tarball existed in the parent directory before you packaged it?
<ivoks> herve is there a howto on MOTU wiki?
<herve> howto about?
<jabra> there is a debian page
<ivoks> herve there was wifi-radar-1.9.3.tar.gz
<jabra> http://www.nl.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-docs.html
<ivoks> that's upstream source
<herve> ivoks, ok the same mistake as mine
<herve> ivoks, did you followed some documentation?
<ivoks> debian-policy, but...
<herve> ho my...
<ivoks> it's a long article :)
<jabra> ya
<herve> sure :-)
<jabra> herve: is there a way to script the creating of a package?
<ivoks> jabra lol
<jabra> if it isn't even compiled
<ivoks> jabra debian/rules?
<herve> jabra, there are already a billion front ends :-)
<herve> jabra, ha, you mean debianizing sources?
<jabra> ya
<ivoks> that's what I'm trying to do :)
<herve> ivoks, first thing, there's a nice new maintainer's guide at debian's
<jabra> ya I am too
<herve> jabra, dh-make package
<jabra> yep
<herve> ivoks, now what you did wrong
<herve> ivoks, tarballs of debian source package have a naming scheme
<herve> your know, the orig.tar.gz
<ivoks> .orig.tar.gz
<herve> since dpkg-buildpackage didn't find it
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> ah... there's the problem
<herve> it thought the debianized sources and the upstream sources are the same
<herve> so it packaged the tarball with no diff
<herve> since it had nothing to diff with
<ivoks> that's true
<herve> renaming the upstream tarball is normal and necessary
<herve> what's wrong is altering its contents :-)
<jabra> damn it still getting  bad-distribution-in-changes-file breezy
<ivoks> ok..
<ivoks> so... i rename archive to wifi-radar-1.9.3.orig.tar.gz
<ivoks> unpack it
<ivoks> do my stuff in that dir and run dpkg-buildpackage
<ivoks> ?
<herve> jabra, you're sure you have the new lintian package?
<jabra> yep
<jabra> just installed it
<herve> ivoks, wait
<jabra> in the chroot
<jabra> it is in my path
<ivoks> waiting :)
<herve> ivoks, it should be wifi-radar_1.9.3.orig.tar.gz
<ivoks> i tought so
<herve> note the underscore separating the name from the version
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> dpkg-buildpackage: binary and diff upload (original source NOT included)
<jabra> E: getwifi_0.1.4-ubuntu1_i386.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file breezy
<jabra> W: getwifi: binary-without-manpage getwifi
<jabra> I have done dh_installman ./getwifi.1
<jabra> using new lintian
<koke> I'm going to upload gnome-art with lower deps, any comments before??
<ivoks> herve thanks a lot, this is ok now
<herve> ivoks, because dpkg-buildpackage detects it's a new revision
<herve> not a new upstream
<ivoks> yeah... thanks
<herve> koke, just be sure of what you do and open a wishlist on the bts
<herve> now I wanted to tell you to use debuild
<herve> but I don't remember why :-)
<ivoks> i tought manuall diff isn't the way to do it :)
<herve> not just because it's shorter to type :)-
<jabra> what is the difference between debuild and dpkg -buildpackage?
<herve> ivoks, packaging masters know how to create a package using two fingers and a toothpick :-)
<ivoks> :)
<herve> ok, maybe not the toothpick!
<ivoks> it's easy
<ivoks> debian did great job with dpkg and deb
<herve> jabra, you usually need to use fakeroot in front of dpkg-bp
<jabra> ok
<ivoks> yeah
<jabra> fakeroot
<jabra> ok
<ivoks> or sudo :)
<herve> see debuild as an alias to "fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage"
<herve> so it's *way* shorter to type :-)
<ivoks> hm... but:
<herve> and I thing the post compile logs are easier to read
<ivoks> debuild needs to be run as superuser to function properly.
<Mithrandir> it also logs what it does.
<Mithrandir> ivoks: no, it does not.
<herve> or the way they are generated
<ivoks> Mithrandir i'm just reading man :)
<herve> Mithrandir, thanks, I forgot dpkg-bp logs in the void :-)
<ivoks>  The third possible method is to have debuild installed as setuid  root
<herve> ivoks, packaging as root is *hell*
<herve> I'm not even sure the buildds do
<Mithrandir> ivoks: fakeroot gives you enough.
<Mithrandir> herve: they use fakeroot
<ivoks> Mithrandir i now
<herve> thanks again :)
<Mithrandir> ivoks: anyhow, the man page is wrong.  It does not need to be run as the superuser.
<ivoks> Mithrandir i'll do my next package with debuild
<herve> ivoks, better, you'll start using debuild from NOW!
<herve> :-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> there. you can check out my package at http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu
<ivoks> i hope everything is right now :/
<herve> trust me, I'll tell you what's wrong ;-)
<ivoks> what or when? :)
<herve> both!
<ivoks> i'm sure my debian/rules isn't too nice
<ivoks> but, this is my first :)
<herve> you should have seen mine :-)
<jabra> I don't understand why the manpage isn't being accepted
<\sh> herve: what was too "technical"?
<ivoks> herve I have a lot of cp and gzip :)
<herve> \sh, c++ and all those lib things
<herve> anyway, I won't have time for that transition
<\sh> herve: come on :) I'm not the compiler freak at all...but what doko wrote on the wikipage was understandable..and after dealing with rh5 i'm not really concerned :)
<dholbach> we will miss you, herve - but do unterstand
<ivoks> lol lilo :)
<herve> \sh, haven't read anything on the wiki lately, which page?
<herve> dholbach, sad now I have upload rights
<\sh> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition
<herve> but I'll give a hand here and then and help uploading
<dholbach> herve: there will be other times :-)
* ajmitch_ thanks everyone for stepping forward to help out with the transition :)
<herve> but my project desperately needs me
<abarbaccia> Anybody want to explain to me how i can package somethign for breezy - like the new version of GAIM or whatever
<ivoks> herve what are you working on?
<herve> abarbaccia, gaim is in the main archive, not really a motu task
<abarbaccia> damn
<\sh> but for learning very good :)
<\sh> apt-get source gaim :)
<dholbach> herve: i hope you don't beat yourself up for it
<abarbaccia> just when i thought i could pursue an easy task to teach myself
<abarbaccia> alright - yey
<herve> ivoks, a revolutionary zope framework, with all the rotten zope concepts in the trashcan
<ajmitch_> ooh, sounds interesting
<ivoks> heh
<herve> dholbach, believe me, I feel sad couldn't be more helpful
<abarbaccia> \sh - this is the old source tho
<ivoks> herve nice
<dholbach> herve: don't, try not to :-)
<jabra> ok I am going to upload with theses errors maybe someone give me some idea how to fix them
<dholbach> herve: you did quite a lot already
<ivoks> herve i wish you luck
<jabra> herve: thanks for the help
* ajmitch_ will probably be sad at the little amount of time he can put into breezy
<herve> ajmitch_, you tell that everytime but you always give a handful of help!
<dholbach> herve: exactly! :-)
* ajmitch_ will desperately need caffiene to last the day
<ivoks> ajmitch_ thank god, my day is over :)
<\sh> hmmm...
<ajmitch_> ivoks: I got about 1-2 hours sleep ;)
<\sh> serious word i have to talk with mr. riddell
<ivoks> ajmitch_ but you are sorry for not giving more of your self :)
<ivoks> ajmitch_ that's.... beautifull
<ivoks> ;)
<Riddell> qui? moi?
<ajmitch_> haha
<herve> ivoks, your package is 90% but I'll have a few corrections to tell you later
<herve> ivoks, read the new maintainer's guide for now
<ivoks> herve ok
<herve> Riddell, non le pape :-)
<ivoks> herve but, it could go to breezy? :)
<herve> after the changes I have in mind, I would sign it, yes :-)
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> i'm so proud :)
<jabra> herve: can you review mine?
<herve> not tonight
<herve> I have two weeks of diff to review in my project
<herve> and it's evolving fast!
<jabra> damn
<abarbaccia> \sh, when i told it to download the source it downloaded the old source - i wanted the new source
* ajmitch_ will bbl
<dholbach> bye ajmitch_
<ivoks> bye
<lamont> motu-tachi: any objections to be doing a mass-give-back of everything that's currently building (==failed)
<dholbach> lamont: don't think so
<ivoks> Maintainer: Josip Rodin <joy-mg@debian.org>
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> he's from croatia too :)
<jabra> hehe
<herve> anyone know about "croque-monsieur"? I'm searching the english name
<herve> yes, I'm definitely OT :-)
<siretart> does anyone know a cdbs managed package with an .desktop file? I want to look at an example for adopting it in my package
<dholbach> bluefish should be
<dholbach> as most of the gnome stuff
<dholbach> ask seb :-)
<siretart> :)
<herve> cdbs, another thing to do on my long list
<crimsun> siretart: rhythmbox
<dholbach> cdbs! rock! :-)
<herve> it does the cxx transition? :-)
<abarbaccia> so when is someone gonna upload gnome 2.12 to breezy?
<ogra> i it exists ?
<ogra> if even
<dholbach> abarbaccia: be sure: seb128 is faster than everybody else
<herve> abarbaccia, we don't even have 2.11
<herve> since it's hardly released
<herve> he even uploads before the official announcement is made :-)
<ivoks> ol
<ivoks> debian/rules:60: *** missing separator (did you mean TAB instead of 8 spaces?).
<ivoks> :))
<crimsun> cdbs2 should do the cxx transition plzkthx
<abarbaccia> herve, so does that mean 2.12 isnt going to be in breezy?
<dholbach> abarbaccia: it will
<dholbach> but thats in october
<herve> abarbaccia, I think you missed out one of the main goals of ubuntu :-)
<jabra> is the changelog file the only place where you specify breezy
<abarbaccia> oh wow - i didn't realize it was that far off
<herve> abarbaccia, but gnome 2.12 is due in october
<herve> late september at best
<crimsun> jabra: yes
<abarbaccia> right - ubuntu releases right after gnome does
<ivoks> herve i think you will like it 100% now :)
<herve> jabra, yes
<herve> ivoks, as the songs goes, I can't get no satisfaction :-)
<ivoks> it even has README.Debian :)
<herve> ho that was not in my wishlist
<ivoks> lol it's doc part is bigger then bin :)
<jabra> getwifi (0.1.4-ubuntu1) breezy; urgency=low
<jabra> that look right
<crimsun> no
<crimsun> 0ubuntu1
<ivoks> jabra i was told 0-ubuntu1
<ivoks> jabra i was told 0ubuntu1
<jabra> ok
<lamont> new flood of build logs headed buildLogs-way
<abarbaccia> what does the 0ubuntu1 mean ivoks
<jabra> which
<jabra> first or second ivoks ?
<crimsun> -0ubuntu1
<lamont> -0ubuntu1
<ivoks> abarbaccia 0.1.4 upstream, first ubuntu revision
<lamont> says that it's not from debian
<ivoks> 0ubuntu1
<jabra> ok cool
<lamont> and creates the fun situation that if debian uploads a different orig.tar.gz, then... pain happens
<herve> you make sure you're always lower than an hypothetical debian package
<ivoks> abarbaccia am I right?
<herve> lamont, well, tarballs are supposed to be prepared by upstream :-)
<lamont> herve: uh, yeah.
<ivoks> herve what was on your wishlist?
<ivoks> man page?
<abarbaccia> ivoks, i was asking you - i have no idea
<abarbaccia> lol
<ivoks> abarbaccia lol ok
<lamont> herve: that's why we have gtkhtml3.2_3.2.3ubuntu1-1ubuntu1
<herve> ivoks, learning cdbs
<abarbaccia> anybody have a good project i can work on to learn how this process goes?
<ivoks> herve ok
<ivoks> herve have fun :)
<crimsun> lamont: what about the locale packs for mozilla-firefox? ;)
<lamont> herve: and I think I just unblocked all the cdbs-build-depending packages in main...
<lamont> crimsun: you trying to make me cry?
<herve> yes, just saw the announce
<crimsun> lamont: not until the cxx transition!
<lamont> herve: (bye-bye cdbs depend on type-handling)(
<Amaranth> wtf is gtkhtml3.2_3.2.3ubuntu1-1ubuntu1?
<Amaranth> someone didn't know how to create a package?
<siretart> do I need to make cdbs call dh_desktop?
<siretart> my package does not do this, but dh_desktop(1) tells me that I have to install it anyway manually
<crimsun> siretart: no, you don't, given that you include gnome.mk
<crimsun> dh_desktop is called there
<siretart> crimsun: my package is a python game, not a gnome package
<crimsun> you are still responsible for putting $foo.desktop into $(pwd)/debian/$foo/usr/share/applications/$foo.desktop, though
<crimsun> siretart: well in that case, yes, you must call dh_desktop explicitly
<siretart> ok, will do
<crimsun> which means you'll need to bump the b-d on debhelper to the correct version, etc.
<ivoks> i created .desktop
<ivoks> and copy it
<crimsun> siretart: the older Hoary notes on the .desktop transition have hints
<siretart> crimsun: will look for them
<ogra> ajmitch_, ?
<ivoks> ogra maybe he's sleeping
<herve> surely :-)
<ogra> yep
<ivoks> after all, he didn't get much sleep these days :)
<ivoks> his nose is on "h" :)
<ivoks> poor keyboard :)
<ivoks> so, anyone interested in RedHat CDE original CD? :)
<ivoks> we are talking about CDE for RedHat 4.2 :)
<jabra> why
<ivoks> this is priceless :)
<ivoks> antique
<herve> no, I threw all this junk last weekend in my childroom
<jabra> ok someone wanta review my packages feel free
<ivoks> jabra url?
<jabra> one sec
<ivoks> jabra i can't do anything about them
<jabra> wait are you a MOTU?
<ivoks> jabra but, as a brother in agony, I can maybe help :)
<jabra> heh true
<jabra> plus the package is similar to wifi-radara
<ivoks> psst... don't trust those MOTUs, what they know, really? They denied my package two times... ah...
<ivoks> :)
<jabra> heh
<herve> I was told motus have kick rights on the channel, too :-)
<ivoks> guys, NHF, it's a joke... i'm happy today :)
<jabra> any MOTU have a minute  to review a package
<ivoks> jabra me me me :)
<jabra> um
<ivoks> ok, i'm starting to upset some people
<herve> no
<herve> I think it's a good idea
<jabra> ok
<jabra> one sec
<herve> but the risk is giving bad tips
<jabra> herve: do you have a minutes?
<ivoks> true
<herve> s/tips/advices
<ivoks> herve maybe I could say what I think here
<herve> jabra, really not tonight
<jabra> k
<ivoks> and then someone would correct me
<dholbach> ivoks: sure
<ivoks> or... noone would correct me and we would have broken libc in ubuntu :)
<jabra> dholbach: got a minute?
<dholbach> sigh
<dholbach> i just finished another meeting
<jabra> ok
<ivoks> jabra put in on the list...
<herve> dholbach needs to work on his thesis anyway :-)
<dholbach> i know
<ivoks> jabra http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages
<jabra> it's there I need to copy it over
<dholbach> copy over to where?
<jabra> to the server
<ivoks> ups... there's two wifi-radars :)
<jabra> huh?
<ivoks> fixed :)
<herve> do they detect each other? :-)
<ivoks> herve they would, but they have same MAC, same ESSID and channel... so it's colision, not detection :)
<herve> hey! your first dpatch!
<herve> detecting if wifi-radar is already working
<ivoks> :)
* herve opening the ubuntu university with exercises and all!
<herve> s/working/running
<ivoks> herve that's pointless
<ivoks> wifi-radar sets connection and quits
<ivoks> or was it a joke? :)
<ivoks> it's 10:23PM...
<herve> I don't know how it works
<herve> but trust me I'll test its quality before approving its enteral :-)
<dholbach> which package am i supposed to have a look at?
<herve> s/enteral/entering ?
<herve> mine! mine!
<herve> :-)
<ivoks> dholbach all? :)
<dholbach> ivoks: if you only knew...
<dholbach> jabra: how can i make you happy?
<ivoks> dholbach start alphabeticly
<ivoks> i'm Ante, so i'm first :)
<aaaa> now I'm first :)-
<dholbach> you make me cry
<a0> :p
<a0> :))
<_herve> :-p
<jabra> dholbach: umm wanta review my package after I upload it?
<ivoks> i'm adult :)
<dholbach> jabra: you asked me like 20 times by now, so... you finished it?
<dholbach> :-)
<jabra> we will see after you review it
<dholbach> what was its name again?
<jabra> getwifi
<jabra> I am uploading a new version
<dholbach> i can only judge the packaging since i dont have the hardware
<jabra> ya that is fine
<ivoks> getwifi?
<jabra> ya
<ivoks> omg... we are doing same thing :)
<dholbach> tell me when it's up
<jabra> it is something I have developed
<jabra> it is in bash
<jabra> ok
<ivoks> herve wifi-radar works... i use it every day
<jabra> ivoks: basically the difference is it doesn't need X
<herve> jabra, i'll test it fonctionnally, I have wifi here
<jabra> ok
<jabra> sure
<jabra> just added wep
<herve> but review the packaging too, you need several agreements
<ivoks> heh
<jabra> ya
<herve> ivoks, I'll test it anyway, I don't believe in "it's working on my computer!" :-)
<dholbach> so is it up?
<jabra> heh
<ivoks> herve a lot of new ubuntu users are very happy with that package
<jabra> ya don't trust the developers or maintainers test it
<ivoks> even upstream said it will put it on webpage
<dholbach> jabra: is it up?
<herve> ivoks, I don't believe in polls either :-p
<ivoks> i don't belive what i saw yestrday
<ivoks> location: croatia
<ivoks> sea side; people are swiming in the sea
<ivoks> 20km northeast
<ivoks> snow
<herve> looks like the weather in grenoble :-)
<ivoks> was there couple of month ago
<ivoks> lot of new ubuntu users in croatia...
<dholbach> jabra: is it up yet?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra/build/ubuntu.html
<jabra> ya
<\sh> he did it :) nice
<herve> ivoks, we're still waiting for your review of jabra's package :-p
<ivoks> getwifi depends on wiretools-tools; however:
<ivoks> damn :)
<dholbach> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra/build/getwifi_0.1.4.orig.tar.gz -> 404
<herve> wireless-tools?
<jabra> uploading one sec
<ivoks> getwifi: Depends: wiretools-tools but it is not installable
<ivoks> so... what now? :)
<jabra> ya your right damn forgot that one
<herve> ivoks, wireless-tools?
<jabra> ya like iwconfig
<ivoks> herve it's not my package :)))
<herve> hu yes
<herve> it's jabra's
<dholbach> jabra: tell me when it's up, please
<herve> sorry it's 23h here :-)
<jabra> ok
<ivoks> herve i know, same as here
<jabra> k
<dholbach> because you have my undivided attention for some minutes now ;-)
<herve> same tz in croatia, wouldn't have thought
<jabra> right
<ivoks> herve what do u think croatia is? :)
<ivoks> where
<herve> ivoks, one hour ahead :-)
<jabra> ok the orig is up
<ivoks> hm
<jabra> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra/build/ubuntu.html
<ivoks> jabra it isn't good
<jabra> getwifi
<dholbach> jabra: looking at it
<jabra> thank
<jabra> s
<dholbach> in debian/changelog: one empty *
<ivoks> wireless-tools is already the newest version.
<ivoks> jabra wiretools-tools!!!!
<jabra> ya
<ivoks> jabra wake up
<ivoks> wireless-tools
<dholbach> you could throw out debian/dirs
<ivoks> not wiretools-tools
<ivoks> :)
<jabra> ivoks: thanks I get the idea
<dholbach> +       mkdir -p $(CURDIR)/debian/getwifi/usr/sbin
<dholbach> +       mkdir -p $(CURDIR)/debian/getwifi/etc
<dholbach> +       mkdir -p $(CURDIR)/debian/getwifi/usr/share/doc/getwifi
<dholbach> hrm
<\sh> install -d -m <mask>
<dholbach> i'm looking for another example
<herve> dholbach, you want him to create the dirs instead of using debhelper?
<dholbach> no... that's what's in debian/rules
<ivoks> i have that too... that's wrong?
<jabra> ...
<dholbach> Architecture: any    <--    should be all, since it doesnt have to be compiled on every arch (no architecture-dependant stuff)
<jabra> right
<herve> masters of the masters will correct
<jabra> shoudl the Depends be changed to specific version of wireless-tools ?
<herve> but I feel like
<dholbach> DHCP_CLIENT=${DHCP_CLIENT:-/sbin/dhclient}    <----    you will want to adress that in   the   Depends:
<herve> the shorter debian/rules is, the better
<dholbach> IFCONFIG=${IFCONFIG:-/sbin/ifconfig} <- this one as well
<jabra> well it is dhcpd or dhclient
<dholbach> jabra: but the user needs to have it installed :-)
<herve> is there an alternative to ifconfig?
<jabra> not that I know of
<ivoks> no
<jabra> well should I add route?
<dholbach> ok... most users already _have_ it installed
<jabra> ya ok
<herve> jabra, dhcpd or dhclient? you want a server or a client?
<dholbach> but you want to make sure
<jabra> ok well dhcpd isn't that a client
<herve> good gnu arch boy
<herve> I spent merging old changes with a project that has changed a lot in an hour
<herve> instead of spending the night
<jabra> damn
<dholbach> the manpage doesnt get installed
<jabra> ya I don't understand why
<jabra> I used dh_installman ./getwifi.1
<dholbach> not in debian/rules
<jabra> no I did that by hand
<dholbach> why?
<jabra> uh I dunno
<herve> so it's like you didn't do it :-)
<dholbach> put it in debian/rules
<ivoks> heh
<jabra> ok then I will add it
<jabra> ok
<ivoks> is man page musthave?
<jabra> ya
<dholbach> dh_installman should look up debian/manpages
<ivoks> even if there is nothing to decribe?
<ivoks> describe
<dholbach> executable binaries should have a manpage
<\sh> ivoks: sure...or mam lintian will treat your bum according to her checks ;)
<ivoks> dholbach scripts?
<dholbach> as well
<herve> not having a manpage for binaries is a bug wrt debian policy
<ivoks> it isn't binary
<ivoks> it's python script
<herve> binary, I mean programs people use
<\sh> ivoks: it's complaining every time for stuff installed in /usr/bin /usr/sbin etc.
<herve> ivoks, does that answer your question? :-)
<jabra> umm how should I call manpages from rules to do dh_installman?
<ivoks> :)
<dholbach> man dh_installman :-)
<ivoks> jabra under install
<jabra> k
<dholbach> ok... so where do we find a nice debian/rules for the install some scripts corner case
<herve> jabra, there was a commented dh_installman line in the debian/rule dh_make generated
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> straw
<\sh> python, gnome, script
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> jabra ok, how did you write man page?
<jabra> ya
<herve> ivoks, I took reportlab's one and changed sentences :-)
<ivoks> no, I will not write man page in 23:20, no, no way
<herve> you have plenty of time
<herve> say, next september to keep a safety net
<ivoks> i don't even know what to write :)
<\sh> i'm writing the manpages every time in docbook and then build depend on docbook-to-man and there it is..debian/rules call to docbook to man thats it..
<jabra> dholbach: anything else?
<dholbach> jabra: still looking
<dholbach> and finding a nice example for debian/rules
<jabra> awesome
<jabra> dholbach: take all the time you need
<ivoks> i think time is something he doesn't have :(
<herve> night all
<dholbach> ivoks, jabra: be sure of this one: i really don't want to annoy you, but i promise i do everything to give the MOTU crew the smoothest experience possible, so please try to be patient :-)
<dholbach> in 3 months it will be different
<ivoks> herve bye
<jabra> herve: later
<jabra> dholbach: ok
<ivoks> dholbach everything is ok
<dholbach> because some other folks are waiting on their reviews a bit longer than you do
<dholbach> i know it's annoying to wait for feedback
<dholbach> but atm it unfortunately is a fact
<ivoks> i know that, so i don't ask... it's on the list...
<jabra> yep
<ivoks> dholbach don't worry, just take it easy and get some sleep
<ivoks> it's midnight
<jabra> dholbach: I really appreciate it
<jabra> it is 5pm
<ivoks> L((
<ivoks> :))
<dholbach> dh_testdir, dh_testroot and dh_installdirs should take care of making most of the directories
<jabra> ok
<dholbach> i dont know if epic4-script-hienoa is a good example, but debian/rules looks a bit cleaner to me
<dholbach> apt-get source epic4-script-hienoa
<dholbach> it's just a script and some documentation (for an irc client)
<dholbach> maybe you can make the best out of it
<jabra> k
<dholbach> if you sorted all the stuff out, could you please notify me?
<dholbach> then i'll have another look
<jabra> awesome
<jabra> thanks you have helped a great deal
<jabra> one question though
<dholbach> fire away
<jabra> why is there an error with breezy from lintian? even though I upgraded
<dholbach> jabra: because lintian was sick
<ivoks> i'm off to bed... night!
<dholbach> koke fixed it
<dholbach> ivoks: good night!
<jabra> ya and I upgraded
<jabra> ivoks: gn
<dholbach> with the next upgrade it should be fine
<jabra> hmmm werird
<\sh> dholbach: pils or klsch or alt? ,-)
<dholbach> oh, now i see what you mean
<dholbach> \sh: all of them :-)
<dholbach> koke: did you test your change on lintian?
<dholbach> koke: it still seems to be sick
<jabra> heh that was the bug I found
<\sh> dholbach: we should change lintian to "cowdesease"
<jabra> I would think that would ahve been fixed already
<dholbach> it should use lsb-release as a fallback
<dholbach> jabra: koke will manage
<\sh> koke maintains ubuntu-lintian?
<jabra> ok well it isn't a error that I should do anything about
<dholbach> ah no
<dholbach> no no no no
<jabra> ?
<dholbach> lintian is in main
<jabra> ok
<dholbach> koke: did somebody upload it for you?
<ogra> dholbach, me
<dholbach> ah ok
<ogra> seems its not in the archive yet... at least i dont see it here
<dholbach> jabra: what is the first entry in  zmore /usr/share/doc/lintian/changelog.Debian.gz ?
<dholbach> for me as well
<dholbach> the archive has gone all funny
<jabra> I installed the tar.gz
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> it takes ages compared to the hoary cycle
<ogra> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/lintian/
<ogra> its there
<ogra> why doesnt my update manager show it ?
<dholbach> because it doesnt have the newest lists?
<jabra> I installed it in /usr/local/
<ogra> dholbach, i did an apt-get update indeed
<dholbach> jabra: i'd always use packages, ALWAYS :-)
<dholbach> ogra: hrm
<koke> oops, sorry I was a bit away
<dholbach> ogra: the _german_ archive has gone funny then ;-)
<jabra> ok well I wanted to have this thing done so I could have it reviewed so when you came on I would be all set
<ogra> dholbach, hmm, explicitly installing lintian works....
<lamont> hrm... bzip2'ing 30GB of logfiles takes a while...
<lamont> esp on slow disks
<ogra> dholbach, might be a dist-upgrade package...
<lamont> ok, they're not really slow.
<\sh> Inst lintian [1.23.6ubuntu1]  (1.23.6ubuntu2 Ubuntu:5.10/breezy)
<\sh> right version?
<jabra> no
<jabra> I think it should be ubuntu2?
<ogra> \sh, 1.23.6ubuntu2
<\sh> ogra: yes...in round brackets :)
<dholbach> ogra: archive.ubuntu.com has it (via apt)
<\sh> i did apt-get update ; apt-get -s upgrade
<ogra> <ogra> dholbach, hmm, explicitly installing lintian works....
<jabra> yep
<dholbach> ogra: hrm, dbus/hal/gnomevfs upgrade will break lots of stuff, maybe thats why
<\sh> argl
<\sh> from dbus changelog: "New upstream version (now with 97% more Api breakage!)."
<\sh> it's a FAQ ;)
<ogra> dholbach, i think dbus isnt ready yet
<dholbach> jabra: made a note on MOTUNewPackages
<ogra>  Package: tomboy
<ogra>  Version: 0.3.2-4ubuntu3
<ogra>  Section: gnome
<ogra>  Priority: optional
<ogra>  Architecture: amd64
<ogra>  Depends: libdbus-cil (>= 0.23.4-3), libgconf-cil (>= 1.0), libglib-cil (>= 1.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.6.0), libgnome-cil (>= 1.0), libgtk-cil (>= 1.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.6.0), libgtkspell0 (>= 2.0.2), libpanel-applet2-0 (>= 2.10.1), mono-assemblies-base (>= 1.0)
<ogra>  Installed-Size: 756
<ogra> YAY !!!
<ogra> DEPENDENCYS
<jabra> ok
<jabra> dholbach: what would do you want me to write?
<\sh> your name, the package, where to find it :)
<jabra> just summaries some of things I need to change?
<jabra> ok
<jabra> will do
<\sh> just like all the others ;)
<jabra> well my name url and package is already there
<dholbach> jabra: just change the stuff
<jabra> ok cool
<jabra> will do
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> i can forget about my packages right now..ok...vnc2swf and libming ok, but the kde stuff...
<\sh> i have to wait until next week ;)
<ogra> longer
<jabra> ok I will go read up on dh_testdir dh_installdir etc
<\sh> ogra: please ask mark, if he can make a sponsorship with ibm for a nice rack full of blades ;)
<ogra> \sh, hardware is not the issue....
<jabra> dholbach: thank you once again
<dholbach> jabra: anytime
<\sh> but it will help a lot ;)
* ogra does the happy mono dance
<\sh> anyways
<\sh> 5 minutes before midnight
<ogra> looks like i get it ready now....
<\sh> time to watch another star trek tng episode and go to bed
<\sh> g'night gentlemen
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-20
<jabra> dholbach: do you have an explain a package I should look at?
<jabra> that isn't compiled
<dholbach> apt-get source epic4-script-hienoa
<jabra> ok
<dholbach> good night
<jabra> dholbach: goodnight
<dahane> good night
<jabra> hmm epic uses mkdir in the rules file
<dholbach> only for the non-standard-stuff
<jabra> right
<dholbach> ok, i'm off
<jabra> don't see how they handle the man page
<jabra> dholbach: later
<dholbach> compare with another package - bye :-)
<schweeb> hola
<schweeb> damn, just missed dholbach
<jabra> o well
<jabra> ya I just finished my package
<jabra> should probably upload it
<jabra> new version of getwifi has be uploaded
<tseng> hm
<tseng> is my hal/dbus stack going to be totally broken now?
<jabra> hope not
<jabra> I need go install a new webserver
<jabra> tseng: later
<tseng> yep muine is not happy at all
* jabra => webserver, dinnah, bed
* tseng builds new dbus-mono
<ogra> tseng, why do you build it ? i thought its in daniels package
<tseng> it is
<tseng> but its all commented out
<tseng> im building it for myself
<ogra> ah, ok
<ogra> just uploaded the fixed mono....
<tseng> yay
<ogra> but the package will still need a lot of love
<tseng> of what kind?
<ogra> lintian was very loud
<tseng> oh.
<ogra> missing manpages was the smallest issue...
<ogra> but its ok, i'll sort that.... what counts is monodis for now
<tseng> yes
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: ping?
<ajmitch_> hi
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: hi
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: how did the fusa review go?
<ajmitch_> didn't get very far, and I've got to leave in about 1 minute..
<ajmitch_> I've got some free time this afternoon
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: ok thanks :)
<ajmitch_> from what I saw, it looked fin, built fine
<ajmitch_> I just haven't installed it :)
<ajmitch_> nor reviewed in detail some stuff
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: apologies for not making the C++ transition meeting. i slept at 1ish and although my alarm woke me up at 5, i just couldn't get out of bed. ill read up the logs later and catch up.
<ajmitch_> that's ok
* ajmitch_ will bbl, I have to run now
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch_: k cya
<Amaranth> o_O
<Amaranth> C++ transition is beginning monday?
<ogra> tuesday
<tseng> anyone still have libdbus-cil installed?
<tseng> eh nm
<zerokarmaleft> yes
<tseng> doesnt matter
<tseng> so rebuilding dbus-mono and then muine works fine
<tseng> should be no problem if beagle cooperates
<ajmitch_> afternoon all
<tseng> hi
<abarbaccia> whats up ya'll
<ajmitch_> working, sadly...
<abarbaccia> hahah - its 10 PM over here in NY
<|QuaD-_>  so with all this new dbus stuff, safe to update breezy?
<Lathiat> HAH
<Lathiat> depends if everythign else went through :P
<Lathiat> The following packages will be REMOVED:
<Lathiat>   bluez-pin bluez-utils dbus-1 dbus-1-dev dbus-glib-1 dbus-glib-1-dev
<Lathiat>   gnome-vlc gnome-volume-manager libdbus-cil libhal-storage0 libhal0 skype
<Lathiat>   tomboy ubuntu-desktop update-notifier vlc wxvlc
<Lathiat> theres a hint :P hahaha
<ajmitch_> fun
* ajmitch_ does an update
<Amaranth> hey, that's less than me
<|QuaD-_> Lathiat: thats why i didn't do it :)
<|QuaD-_> mine is less than that
<|QuaD-_> cuz i don't have skype or vlc
<nmorse> Anyone here know how to get an ali m5475 sound card working? Ubuntu loads the modules but I still get no sound
<ajmitch_> #ubuntu may be more help
<ajmitch_> it could possibly be muted, but I don't deal with sound much :)
<Amaranth> |QuaD-_: How can you not have vlc?
<|QuaD-_> Amaranth: hmm, isn't vlc a media player?
<nmorse> not muted, just made sure with alsamixergui and with KMix
<Amaranth> |QuaD-_: Yeah, the best.
<|QuaD-_> Amaranth: i use xine
<Amaranth> |QuaD-_: The interface sucks though, I'm actually thinking about using the python-vlc bindings to make a better one
<Amaranth> xine? pfft
<|QuaD-_> totem-xine
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> I might be biased, I know one of the developers and use the python-vlc bindings in an app. ;)
<nmorse> Kaffeine, fools
<|QuaD-_> :) i don't really use any fancy media formats, xine works fine, just xvid movies
<|QuaD-_> mp3's i use muine
<Amaranth> yeah, i use muine too
<Amaranth> i'd like to try sonance but it needs gst-sharp which isn't buildable
<|QuaD-_> never heard of it, what is it?
<|QuaD-_> why does epiphany require dbus?
<nmorse> epiphany requires dbus?
<nmorse> Who thought up that one?
<|QuaD-_> epiphany-extensions might belong requiring it, but i can't figure out why epiphany-browser does
<nmorse> what would DBUS be used for?
<nmorse> It makes no sense in one browser that's part of GNOME
<|QuaD-_> epiphany-extensions has a dashboard extension, which probably requires dbus
<lamont> hrm... gonna have to bootstrap smlnj/i386 for breezy...
* lamont adds to his list
<|QuaD-_> i wonder if the new dbus will break beagle anymore than it already is
<Treenaks> |QuaD-_: beagle will need at least a recompile to fix dependancies
<|QuaD-_> Treenaks: i figured that :)
* Treenaks upgrades and fears
<|QuaD-_> Treenaks: you are def braver than i
<Treenaks> I know how to fix stuff if it breaks ;) that helps
<|QuaD-_> Treenaks: haha
<abarbaccia> hey guys - should someone make sure that when installing beagle mono is installed as well, because as of right now, it's not
<|QuaD-_> abarbaccia: thats a dependency issue
<abarbaccia> |QuaD-_, thats what i thought - but shouldn't synaptic or apt-get take care of it if beagle is packaged correctly?
<|QuaD-_> abarbaccia: thats cuz beagle isn't listed as a dependency :)
<|QuaD-_> *mono
<abarbaccia> |QuaD-_, so can't we change that easily?
<|QuaD-_> abarbaccia: yeah, but when they made the source package, they had problems with the program that automatically assigns dependencies
<abarbaccia> if you couldn't tell i'm new to the whole "help with the community" thing - but i have done a decent bit of programming before and a few other things
<|QuaD-_> it will be fixed shortly
<abarbaccia> hurm
<abarbaccia> i want to help out with someone on a task they are assigned to so i can learn the ropes
<|QuaD-_> abarbaccia: as the people here :)
<abarbaccia> that's why i'm here - hopefully to help out - learn on something simple then eventually adopt or help out on my own individual package
<|QuaD-_> abarbaccia: they don't have people maintaining individual packages (i don't think), i believe its a community effort
<abarbaccia> alright - since you seem to know what you are doing - what do you suddgest would be the best route to take to become more actively involved
<|QuaD-_> abarbaccia: cuz of school i haven't been involved. That will change soon :) just ask some current motu's
<abarbaccia> what school do you go to?
<abarbaccia> boston u
<|QuaD-_> i don't really go anymore
<|QuaD-_> i am graduating in a week
<|QuaD-_> done with all my stuff
<abarbaccia> congrats - what major?
<|QuaD-_> thanks
<|QuaD-_> ee
<abarbaccia> nice nice - im at PSU (well not right now) and i'm working on setting up an internship for this summer / fall
<abarbaccia> so im talking to people at IBM (down in austin TX) and lockheed martin (MD) and the NSA (MD) - no offers yet - but hopefully within the week
<|QuaD-_> i got into psu :) i shoulda gone there
<|QuaD-_> but it was tooo far away from everything
<|QuaD-_> my bestfriend went there
<abarbaccia> psu is great - a lot cheaper than BU ( i was planning on goign to cornell  - got in and all -  but too much $$ )
<|QuaD-_> heh
<|QuaD-_> psu is huge
<abarbaccia> i love it - the city of boston is huger
<abarbaccia> lol
<|QuaD-_> oh, i LOVE boston
<|QuaD-_> whats your major?
<abarbaccia> computer engineering
<|QuaD-_> cool
<abarbaccia> yea, i like it a lot - some of the real programming stuff is dull - but the "engineering" part is really cool
<|QuaD-_> heh, cse majors shouldn't be doing that much programing
<|QuaD-_> i took most of the cse classes at bu, i just wanted to stay ee
<abarbaccia> tell that to my school - they think computer engineering and computer sci should be the same until senior year
<|QuaD-_> oh, here cse is basically ee, they just focus more on the computer end of ee
<|QuaD-_> but anyone, i am sure they would love to teach you how to become an motu if you really want to
<abarbaccia> alright - sounds good - thanks for the help bud
<abarbaccia> and congrats and graduatiopn
<|QuaD-_> thanks
<g14> Who is the firefox maintainer? The latest update broke adding bookmarks and I thought I would let them know
<Burgundavia> firefox is maintained, so file a bug in bugzilla
<g14> ok
<robitaille> g14,  is this bug you are having? https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10643
<robitaille> ^/is/is it/
<g14> robitaille, sure is
<g14> robitaille, thanks
<\sh> morning
<dahane> g'morning
<\sh> ok...trying to rebuild new pykde packages
<\sh> is there a "debian/changelog" macro for vim available? or emacs? ,-)
<Treenaks> \sh: dch in package devscripts
<\sh> Treenaks: thx :)
<|QuaD-_> i noticed that ubuntu calendar never came for april or may
<Treenaks> |QuaD-_: poke teh jdub
<|QuaD-_> hehe, i was liking the girl in different poses that just hid enough to make her pictures socially acceptable
<Treenaks> keep her then ;)
<|QuaD-_> i haven't taken her off :) just wanting a new one
<Lathiat> eh dch is king
<thom> \sh: there's apparently an emacs mode in devscripts-el, too
<Lathiat> only found out about that recently
<thom> (if you're that way inclined, anyway)
<Lathiat> i tried to get my head around emacs, im too vim ingrained
<Lathiat> but emacs seems to do some cool stuff i havent seen work so well in vim
<Lathiat> i probably just need to learn to use vim better
<\sh> thom: i will check it :)
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> if i'm making a call to dh_installinit -- defaults 23 e.g. and have an init.d script available, do I have to call update-rc.d again in debian/postinst?
<\sh> lintian is complaining about it
<ivoks> hi
<ajmitch_> hi ivoks
<ivoks> ajmitch_ go get some sleep :)
<ajmitch_> it's not even midnight here
<ivoks> lol
* ajmitch_ is still working on some packages ;)
<ajmitch_> I haven't uploaded enough today ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch_> hey koke
<ajmitch_> how are you?
<koke> hi !
<koke> ajmitch_: fine thanks :)
* ajmitch_ tests out the rebuilt ethereal debs
<koke> I'm trying to package shtoom
<koke> but I have a problem
<koke> a python setup.py clean -a generates shtoom/__init__.pyc
<koke> so it can't make the diff.gz :(
<thom> koke: shtoom is already packaged
<thom> please don't do it agian :-)
<koke> doh!
<thom> http://people.ubuntu.com/~daf/packages/shtoom
<thom> it'll go into main soon
<ajmitch_> great, I didn't break ethereal
<koke> is there any wiki page to find this kind of packages??
<koke> I think is the third one already packaged I try to package this week
<ajmitch_> thom: do you have an archive of your latest NM packages?
<thom> ajmitch_: no; it's next on my list after kernel security patching
<ajmitch_> you got sucked into the kernel team as well?
<thom> yeah
<thom> idiot me
<\sh> i can't work like that
<\sh> everything is fscking here...:(
<\sh> ser is just finished
<ivoks> wtf...
<\sh> need only to fix one issue with lintian
<thom> \sh: woop
<ivoks> i connect my canon 300d to comp, and usb-storage doesn't load
<\sh> thom: well...at least u can help me to get a clue ;)
<\sh> dh_installinit -- defaults 23
<thom> paste the error here?
<Treenaks> ivoks: does it work in ghtumb?
<\sh> script-in-etc-init.d-not-registered-via-update-rc.d"
<ivoks> Treenaks i don't work at all
<ivoks> Treenaks gthumb starts after usb-storage
<Treenaks> ivoks: put it in "playback" mode (instead of "take pictures" mode)
<ivoks> Treenaks heh, playback mode
<ivoks> canon 300d :)
<Treenaks> ivoks: review mode then?
<Treenaks> ivoks: the mode you switch the camera into when you want to view the pictures on the flashcard, instead of taking new ones
<ivoks> ok.. gtkam see it
<ivoks> Treenaks canon 300d doesn't have that mode... you can see pictures in all modes
<Treenaks> ivoks: oh.. ok.. it's modeless :)
<ivoks> Treenaks it has too many modes to have one more, stoopid one like playback mode :)
<ivoks> this is a dSLR
<Treenaks> ivoks: I know the 300d (by name) :)
<Treenaks> ivoks: it's just that most cameras have one :)
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> i like gtkam
<ivoks> nice... there is gimp plugin for raw photos
<ivoks> wow... i could do some serius editing on linux :)
<Treenaks> ivoks: :)
<ivoks> nice, gthumb2 works too...
<ivoks> too bad, this isn't usb-storage...
<ivoks> i was so sure it is...
<ivoks> hm... shouldn't gnome-volume-manager detect camera and start gthumb2?
<mjr> should
<ivoks> hm...
<ajmitch_> yep, unless you're using breezy & that bug hasn't been fixed ;)
<ivoks> it is breezy :)
<ajmitch_> ivoks: you say it's not usb storage?
<mjr> or it doesn't recognize your particular camera, in which case report...
<mjr> ah :)
* Amaranth is down to two things stopping the dbus upgrade
<ivoks> ajmitch_ it looks like it isn't
* ajmitch_ is lagged++
<ajmitch_> ivoks: try 'modprobe sd_mod' anyway
<ivoks> usbcore: registered new driver usb-storage
<ivoks> USB Mass Storage support registered.
<ivoks> usb 2-1: USB disconnect, address 2
<ivoks> usb 2-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 3
<ivoks> ajmitch_ i did...
<ivoks> no effect
<ajmitch_> ok
<ajmitch_> Amaranth: you're doing well, there's a bunch of stuff synaptic wants to remove :)
<ivoks> ok...
<ivoks> on debian and gentoo I had gnome-volume-manager
<Amaranth> well, it wants to remove a lot but a lot of that is because it's been replaced with new stuff
<Treenaks> ivoks: ah, running breezy? then volume-manager got deinstalled when dbus got upgradeed. re-isntall gnome-volume-manager
<Amaranth> but libdbus-cil and tomboy are the two i can't get rid of
<ajmitch_> Amaranth: it wants to remove kde :)
<ivoks> Treenaks broken deps...
<Amaranth> ajmitch_: oh, you're one of those
<ajmitch_> you could argue that kde could be replaced by gnome ;)
<Treenaks> ivoks: wait for a short while
<ajmitch_> Amaranth: yes, I'm a GNOME user that has KDE installed
<ivoks> Treenaks no problem...
<Treenaks> ivoks: the fixed version has been uploaded
<thom> ivoks: expect stuff to break in breezy *shrug*
* Treenaks usually just plugs the CF into a  separate reader.. works too
<ivoks> thom that's ok
<ivoks> thom i lived with sid for years... i know that feeling :)
<ajmitch_> expect things to seriously break soon :)
<Amaranth> ajmitch_: I must not have that much of KDE installed. I get nothing from KDE removed.
<ivoks> :)
<Amaranth> things are going to start to seriously break on monday
<ajmitch_> Amaranth: kdebase-kio-plugins depends on dbus-1
<ajmitch_> Amaranth: it'll be fun!
<Amaranth> yeah, maybe i'll get something done in universe for once :)
<Amaranth> all those C++ packages...
* ajmitch_ will hopefully do some work for a change
<ivoks> ok... dist-upgrade 80MB :)
<ivoks> breezy is much more active then sid
<ajmitch_> that's fairly small
<ajmitch_> only because sid is slowing down for the sarge release at the moment :)
<ivoks> i know
<ajmitch_> and most breezy action is because of sid
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> maybe if I restart gnome... :)
* ajmitch_ needs more bandwidth
<ajmitch_> this package is taking an age to upload
<ivoks> i'll be back
<ivoks> hm... i have to start gthumb manually...
<ajmitch_> malone+motu meeting in < 8 hours
<ajmitch_> time for me to sleep, package finally uploaded (hopefully it gets accepted)
<ivoks> ok.. what's malone? :)
<ajmitch_> *gasp*
<ajmitch_> the bugtracker we should all use for universe :)
<ajmitch_> launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone
<ivoks> ah.. right
<ajmitch_> night all, I'll try & be here in 7 hours or so :)
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> amazing...ppv cluster is crashing...
<ogra> \sh, run it on ubuntu ;)
<\sh> ogra: hehe...seachange has a solution running under linux at all ;) beta stage ;)
<\sh> but whats annoying, i can't work on my packages
<ogra> \sh, so request that they run it on ubuntu then ;)
<\sh> ogra: it's not a matter of OS, it's a matter, that I can't do my work for ubuntu ;)
<\sh> ok...building pykde again with patches applied ;)
<\sh> building ser again
<Amaranth> using cdbs, how can i rename a bunch of *.py files to *.bittorrent without breaking everything?
<Amaranth> i've tried putting the script in build: and install::
<thom> see, "using cdbs" was your first mistake
<crimsun> uh oh ;p
* thom g;d;r
<Amaranth> i've even tried renaming the originals in makebuilddir (before anything else happens) but dpkg-source ignores the rename
<Amaranth> yeah, well debhelper rules files scare me
<Amaranth> so i use cdbs :)
<thom> and cdbs doesn't scare you? not having a clue what's going on under the hood frightens me far more than writing dh_foo\ndh_bar
<Amaranth> well, i think that's my problem
<Amaranth> i need to get this script in _right_ before dh_install
<Amaranth> so i'll probably have to use the crappy way
<Mithrandir> everybody should learn to write a rules script using just dpkg-dev.  Just so you have a clue how package building works.
<ogra> yes
<Amaranth> *shudder*
<Mithrandir> not because you want to do that most of the time, but so you _understand_ how it all fits together.
<Amaranth> cdbs makes python packages so easy though
<Mithrandir> *shrug*; you should still know how to do it with just dpkg-dev.
<Mithrandir> anybody can write code which is so clever that he's unable to debug it himself.  This is an instance of the same problem.
<Mithrandir> (or design a cipher he can't break himself, and so on)
<ogra> the fun is where someone transitioned a package to cdbs and didnt know how dpkg-dev works.... mono currently has nice things in this respect, like mono-*.install in the debian dir and additionally dh_install in the rules :)
<ogra> installing everything twice :)
<Mithrandir> yeah, and then you suddenly get some silent breakage because some semantic or another changed.
<ogra> yep...
<Amaranth> Mithrandir: there was something about that on joelonsoftware. Basically if you code something using all the trick and such you know you are qualified to read and edit it.
<womble> Amaranth: You might be thinking of Ken Thompson's quote: "Debugging software is much harder than writing it.  Thus, if you program as cleverly as you can, you are by definition to dumb to debug it."
<Amaranth> womble: that's it
<Amaranth> joel was quoting it
<Mithrandir> yeah, it's a classic saying.
<Mithrandir> it's still true, though. :)
* Amaranth give up on making sense
<Amaranth> i just reread what i typed
<Amaranth> fuck, i did it again
<Amaranth> english is my first language, so this is really bad :)
<Lathiat> haha
<ogra> oh
* Amaranth needs more caffeine
* Nafallo hands Amaranth a can of jolt :-)
<\sh> i need a clone
* Amaranth has some red bull
<diamond> \sh: of anything in particular?
<\sh> diamond: no..only a clone of myself ;)
<\sh> and a faster laptop
* diamond grins
<\sh> thom: ping
<Nafallo> \sh: clones are no good, go read Alien: Resurrection ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo: well...then I need another wife and make a clone by myself ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: hehe
<Nafallo> *sigh* se.archive.ubuntu.com is really slow to rsync from.
<Nafallo> atleast the first part of it.
<Nafallo> (receiving file list ...)
* Amaranth debates losing tomboy to get new dbus
<crimsun> it just needs to be recomp'd, no biggie
<Amaranth> i thought the API completely changed
<crimsun> oh?
<Amaranth> hmm, how can cognito be at 0.8 when it's git underpinnings are only at 0.1 (0.2?)
<crimsun> well in that case...
<crimsun> 0.10 is going in soon
<thom> Amaranth: just make sure tomboy is running before you remove it ;p
<thom> crimsun: i just uploaded 0.10
<crimsun> thom: ja
<Amaranth> thom: yeah, that'll work
<thom> \sh: ack, kinda
<ogra> tseng, ping
<Amaranth> too bad vlc is going to be removed too
<Amaranth> which i need
<ogra> Amaranth, there are other players
<Amaranth> ogra: PyMusique uses python-vlc
<ogra> oops
<ogra> there is a python-vlc ?
<crimsun> (yep)
<Amaranth> yeah, not sure is jlj made it or if it existed before
<Amaranth> s/is/if/
<crimsun> I'm waiting on wxwidgets 2.6 to be introduced into Debian before asking for a resync of vlc
<Amaranth> wait, newer vlc's use 2.6?
<crimsun> no point in rebuilding in Breezy against 2.5 since it was ripped out of Debian's archive for licensing issues, among other things
* Amaranth goes to watch TV
<crimsun> Amaranth: Debian Sid's vlc uses wxwindows 2.4; Ubuntu Hoary's uses wxwidgets 2.5
<ogra> 2.6 is clean now ?
<crimsun> ogra: I presume not yet, since I haven't seen any indication from Ron, the Debian developer, of it building from HEAD, and that's one of his qualifications for uploading 2.6
<ogra> ah
<\sh> *grmpf*
<\sh> have to leave for repairing the cluster...
<\sh> and again more then 10 hours work
<\sh> cu later guys
<diamond> bye \sh
<doko> ogra: is dholbach here?
<jabra> why doesn't anyone in here use screen?
<thom> jabra: i think you exagerate somewhat
<thom> and it's hard to run xchat in screen anyway
<jabra> it just seems like everyone quits at the end of the day
<jabra> I dunno your probably right
<ogra> doko, nope, working on his thesis.... he'll be around for the malone meeting
<koke> jabra: I use screen but not for IRC
<koke> anyway, my laptop sleeps with me :)
<koke> at the same times, I mean
<koke> doh, launchpad zope dead again :(
<koke> I was trying to do my malone homework :)
<koke> anyone knows what to do with https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/618 ??
<Nafallo> dholbach: welcome :-)
<dholbach> hey
<ogra> hey ?
<dholbach> ogra: hm?
<Amaranth> btw, does anyone else think malone looks like ass? :)
<ogra> dholbach, hm
<ogra> :)
<thom> Amaranth: thoroughly no comment
<ogra> Amaranth, did you see it in the "prehugefont" time ?
<Amaranth> nope
<ogra> with correct fonts it looked quite good
<dholbach> we're getting older, so don't mind the fonts :-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> thats what glasses are for, no ?
<Amaranth> all that space on the sides wasted but the columns are squished together, things are cut off and overlapping, and there is text that is styled like buttons
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> you can all tell this bradb, kiko and bjornt in 2h40m :-)
* Amaranth hacks at it with platypus and greasemonkey
<ogra> heh
<Amaranth> oops, i deleted everything on the page
* Amaranth looks for undo
<herve> hi
<dholbach> hey herve!
<herve> what a surprise! :-)
<dholbach> what do you mean?
<herve> seeing you her
<herve> e
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> working day is over... right? :-)
<herve> YES
<Nafallo> dooh, de.a.u.c has wrong Release.gpgs or something?
* Nafallo tries to sync from a.u.c next *sigh*
<Amaranth> that happens when the mirror is updating
<Amaranth> archive.ubuntu.com is a round-robin, isn't it?
<Nafallo> Amaranth: nope
<herve> so...
<herve> how many have broke their system with the new dbus/hal?
<herve> :-)
<Nafallo> herve: thanx for warning ;-)
<herve> synaptic wanting to remove ubuntu-desktop was enough a warning for me
<Nafallo> ahh, same :-)
<dholbach> what does it want to remove as well? sound-juicer?
<Amaranth> herve: I'm waiting on tomboy and vlc fixes first. :)
<dholbach> tomboy needs a bigger than the dbus fix ;-)
<dholbach> as ogra told me
<Nafallo> Amaranth: btw, I haven't had those issues with neither se.a.u.c nor a.u.c
<ogra> Amaranth, with a little luck mono is fixed (basically at least) with my next upload.... then i'll get to tomboy
<dholbach> ok... so vlc as well
<Amaranth> yay!
<Amaranth> more than the dbus fix? what do you mean?
<dholbach> it's not only dbus that broke tomboy :-)
<ogra> lol
<dholbach> or did i say something wrong, ogra? :-)
<ogra> hmm... if we forget about dependencys.... nope :)
<Amaranth> oh, you mean the fact that all mono apps have no depencenies now?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> this too
<Amaranth> btw, the topic is stale
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | => http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList <= | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Meeting with Malone crew: 12 May 20:00 UTC
<Amaranth> that was fast
<herve> what do you expect
<herve> we are the masters of the universe!
<Amaranth> you blink and things happen? :)
<dholbach> yeah... stuff breaks ;-)
<Amaranth> hehe
<Nafallo> lol
<herve> then you sneeze and a planet explodes :-)
<Nafallo> herve: ey! I like ubuntu planet :-P
<Nafallo> or planet ubuntu ;-)
<herve> let's first try on aldorande!
<thom> itym alderaan ;-)
<herve> I just know star wars in french
<dholbach> does MOTUNewPackages and MOTUToReview look soooo bad?
* herve thinking of a workflow driven application for new packages
* ogra lols at "we need source packages"
<herve> "and I thought debian was a binary distribution!"
<herve> :-)
<dholbach> Riddell: could you explain "the libraries are beasties with that release, they will go away in future releases, no need for separate packages" wrt to krecipes?
<dholbach> Riddell: i'm not that much into kde, so i don't know what's going on
<dholbach> hey bradb
<bradb> hi dholbach
<dholbach> how are you?
<dholbach> how was japan?
<bradb> good thanks. japan was amazingly cool.l
<bradb> s/l$//
<bradb> how's things with you?
<dholbach> should be doing more for my thesis ;-)
<dholbach> but i'm fine thanks :-)
<bradb> heh
<herve> dholbach, that's not things to say in front of me :-)
<dholbach> herve: i know... one day you'll really punish me for what i did ;-)
<goofrider> hello?
<herve> yes, motu speaking
<goofrider> anyone knows where I can get some doco on how to package python stuff
<goofrider> ?
<herve> debian new maintainer's guide + python policy
<goofrider> I read the new-maint guide but it doesn't say anything about upstream source that didn't come with a MakeFile
<herve> well, just do what the install doc says, but manually
<goofrider> I'm kinda lost on how to modify setup.py
<herve> I mean, in your debian/rules
* ogra dances around wildly throwing free beer around
<abarbaccia> lots of gstreamer stuff today
<ogra> MONO BUILT !!
<thom> goofrider: you don't modify it, you just run it with the right arguments
<herve> modifying setup.py?
<abarbaccia> good job ogra!
<Amaranth> ogra: amd64?
<Lathiat> og	woo :)
<Lathiat> ogra: woo.
<ogra> abarbaccia, its just building for now.... there has still a lot to be done
<ogra> amd64, yes
<ogra> and all mono apps should have dependencys again after the next rebuild
<Amaranth> yay
<thom> goofrider: ie, in my install: target i have something like "python2.3 setup.py install --no-compile --prefix=$(PYTHON23)/usr"
<goofrider> run it with the right arguments so that the files to be installed will be under ./debian when I package it?
* thom bows down and worships ogra
<ogra> :-D
<thom> goofrider: where PYTHON23 := $(shell pwd)/debian/python2.3-pygsm
<Amaranth> I just use cdbs and have it too all that junk for me. :)
<Amaranth> s/too/do/
<thom> Amaranth: we've _had_ this discussion :-)
<Amaranth> yeah, yeah, dpkg-dev
<Riddell> dholbach: that krecipies has a couple of libraries in it, they are only there because the guy didn't set up automake properly, they should just be part of the executable rather than .so files and will be in future releases
<Riddell> dholbach: so the idea of separating the executable and the library is superfluous
<dholbach> ahhhhhhhh ok
<herve> yet another discussion we've had :-)
<goofrider> lemme read the python-policy, I haven't read that yet. Thanks for the tips though
<goofrider> more RTFM  LOL
<herve> welcome to our world :-)
<Amaranth> Let's BTFM
<Amaranth> Burn The Fucking Manual
<goofrider> LMAO
<goofrider> anyways, I wanted to see a couple packages in Universe and I thought making a DEB first and hand it to u guys might stand a better chance of getting them accepted
<goofrider> am I on the right track?
<Amaranth> goofrider: Absolutely.
<goofrider> :)
<goofrider> hey where's the python-policy?
<dholbach> if you announce your source packages on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages the chances are even better
<goofrider> it's not in the Debian-Policy package
<Amaranth> btw, what packages are you working on?
<goofrider> Gnochm
<goofrider> and it's dependancy, pychm
<goofrider> it's a Windows CHM help file viewer, like xCHM
<goofrider> but uses GTK bindings
<Amaranth> neat
<Nafallo> damn
<Nafallo> I shouldn't have rm'd those books :-P
<goofrider> what books?
<goofrider> BTW, should I put **my** name in MOUTNewPackages? Or should I just leave it blank?
<Nafallo> the ones I downloaded that were in .chm format :-P
<abarbaccia> ogra, i want to help out with mono and beagle - what should i do?
<goofrider> Nafallo: xCHM works well
<dholbach> goofrider: your name, name of the packages and the location of those
<herve> abarbaccia, light candles and pray :-)
<dholbach> like the other guys did
<Nafallo> goofrider: can't remember. I think I tried it...
<dholbach> herve: :-)
<abarbaccia> herve, lol
<abarbaccia> if i updated to a new kernel - would that explain why my wireless network card is no longer detected?
<Amaranth> you use ndiswrapper?
<Nafallo> abarbaccia: probably. is it in the kernel?
<herve> abarbaccia, I found breezy in its actual state don't load modules automatically
<ogra> abarbaccia, there is currently not much to do, the packages are quite ok, just need some small dependency changes, manpages and a rebuild... but for now they even cant build because we have to wait for a gtk-sharp and dbus rebuild
<herve> I even have to modprobe sd_mod for usb keys!
<abarbaccia> Amaranth, no, its the included ATX 110 stuff in the kernel
<ogra> abarbaccia, but anyway, join the MOUTMono team ;)
<ogra> argl
<Amaranth> MOUT? :)
<ogra> MOTUMono
<ogra> :)
* dholbach enables Amaranth's mod_speling
<Nafallo> dholbach: better do it for ogra ;-)
<abarbaccia> ogra, i don't know much about beagle, and less about mono
<dholbach> Nafallo: mod_speling is about spelling correction :-)
<thom> mod_speling is serious crack :-)
<Nafallo> dholbach: ehm... yes? :-) "MOUTMono" above, referenced by Amaranth ;-)
<ogra> abarbaccia, me neither :) its mostly about packaging... and bug hunting.... there are always people to ask about stuff you dont know ;)
<abarbaccia> ogra, alright - then i'm in - i want to somehow get beagle to search thunderbird mail to
<ogra> hmm, so go out into the wild wild internet and find a beagle patch ;)
<abarbaccia> there are none
<thom> tbird doesn't store in an mbox or maildir locally or anything that useful?
<abarbaccia> thom, i believe it stores it locally but it doesnt get indexed for some reason - it's odd
<Amaranth> I thought beagle didn't search in dot files and dirs.
<thom> Amaranth: ah, that'd do it
<abarbaccia> Amaranth, right - which is the problem - somehow you gotta specify it
<Amaranth> plus, you'll probably want to make a thunderbird extension
<Amaranth> like the firefox one
<Amaranth> otherwise beagle will treat it like a file
<abarbaccia> Amaranth, that would most likely be the easiest way
<abarbaccia> If you compile beagle by scratch you can enable the thunderbird extension the author started on but never finished - it doesn't work - but it should lay down some framework and there are reports of people having limited success
<abarbaccia> more of a bealge topic tho then a motu topic - i might contact the developer and see if i can help him out any
<dholbach> goofrider: erm... where are the source packages (.diff.gz, .dsc, .orig.tar.gz) of the gnomechm packages?
<goofrider> still working on them
<goofrider> LOL
<dholbach> would you please announce it once they're ready? :-)
<goofrider> I'll try to get it done this afternoon
<dholbach> take your time
<goofrider> my frist package so don't hold your breath.. still reading the python-policy manual
<goofrider> LMAO
<koke> the builders use gcc 4.0 or 3.4 ??
<goofrider> but yeah, I'll give u a holler when I get it build
<dholbach> gcc4.0 and g++3.4
<koke> ok, so qemu 0.7 will have to wait
<dholbach> goofrider: if you look at existing packages (apt-get source <bla>) it might help :-)
<goofrider> yeah will do, thanks  :)
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingTips and wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto are good (apart from the debian documentation)
<goofrider> k, thanks a lot. u guys been gr8
<dholbach> anytime :-)
<goofrider> dholbach, what python package would u think I should disect?
<goofrider> I need an app and a lib
<dholbach> a gnome-python package?
<goofrider> yup
<Amaranth> dholbach: I thought it was 4.0 and 3.3
<herve> I know one, which I inspired from
<herve> but it's not gnome
<goofrider> what is it?
<herve> erm
<herve> thinking about it, I'm sure there was a binary
<herve> reportlab
<goofrider> it shouldn't matter if it's gnome or not.. I just need an example debian/rules
<herve> s/sure/not sure
<dholbach> a nice cdbs example :-)
<herve> er... no :-)
<Amaranth> smeg is a nice cdbs example :)
<dholbach> cdbs ROCKS
<ogra> bah
<dholbach> goofrider: i remove your entry again, ok?
<dholbach> ogra: ?
<goofrider> np
<ogra> dholbach, you know my opinion about cdbs :-P
<dholbach> ogra: yeah... you love it and you sent anonymous fan mails to jeff bailey
<ogra> hrm, exactly... hmpf
<goofrider> so i should use cdbs or dh_make?
<dholbach> both
<dholbach> dh_make gives you *lots* of template stuff for your package
<dholbach> you can safely remove around 70% of them ;-)
<herve> dholbach, not cdbs for a first package
<herve> he needs to understand what's going on
<ogra> goofrider, if you want to learn everything, use dh_make only .... if you wnat it easy use cdbs only... if you want to be cool, learn both ;)
<dholbach> goofrider: ok you hear the other guys: i have "just another opinion", i like cdbs VERY much
<dholbach> yes, learn both
<ogra> yep
<goofrider> I only RTFM'd the usual suspects like dh_make and pbuilder,I didn't know about cdbs at all
<dholbach> if you look at around 200 packages and try to see sense in them you will succeed
<dholbach> :-)
<ogra> goofrider, start with dh_make, to see some results and learn the basics, then have a look at cdbs
<goofrider> I'll read about cdbs as well then
<herve> and dpatch!!
<Amaranth> cdbs is good for newbs
<ogra> cdbs is cool for mass packaging....
<ogra> Amaranth, absolutely not
<Amaranth> once you need more control you can learn debhelper
<ogra> Amaranth, but we had this discussion before...
<Amaranth> ogra: yeah, yeah, dpkg-dev
<dholbach> Amaranth: you can control everything in the build targets and use dh_* in there
<herve> ogra, industrial vs artisanal? :-)
<ogra> Amaranth, if you fix others packages its most likely that they are packaged with debhelper
<tritium> dholbach, I like cdbs too
<ogra> herve, yeah !
* dholbach hugs tritium 
<tritium> :)
<Amaranth> ogra: But learning debhelper for a first package is overwhelming.
<dholbach> Amaranth: step-by-step it's ok
<goofrider> there ought to be a list of all these packaging tools on the wiki... there're way to many ways package
<ogra> Amaranth, but its essential to understand the basics.... you wont learn them with cdbs
<dholbach> if you try to let pbuilder accept your package that's a good start
<dholbach> after that you'll always have this channel to run to
<Treenaks> dholbach: OK, so what's the plan, how do I help?
<Treenaks> dholbach: (with my brand-new breezy chroot)
<dholbach> we will start on tuesday
<dholbach> transitioning all the c++ libraries
<koke> meeting in 30 minutes??
<Treenaks> dholbach: ok, that's automagic?
<koke> or 90?
<dholbach> not completely
<dholbach> 30
<dholbach> 23
<dholbach> the attack plan is well documented on BreezyToolchainTransition and CxxLibraryList
<dholbach> the c++ apps will be frozen and recompiled after that
<dholbach> we will apply patches, rename the library (binary) package, adjust .shlibs (if necessary), file a bugreport on b.u.c with the debdiff and be happy
<Treenaks> then we pick out the build failures?
<dholbach> pick out the build failures?
<Treenaks> dholbach: yes.. you don't expect everything to build perfectly on rebuild right?
<dholbach> the applications?
<Treenaks> dholbach: AND the c++ libraries
<dholbach> we have millions of patches
<dholbach> on UniverseCxxTransition and in b.u.c
<bradb> so, MOTU'ers...Malone meeting in 3 mins in #ubuntu-meeting!
<tseng|work> yes
<ogra> ah, tseng|work
<ogra> tseng|work, i had to rip out the cli-common build dep from mono to make it compile, do you know if its really needed ?
<ogra> guys join #ubuntu-meeting malone is for us....
* tritium will have to read the #ubuntu-meeting log later...off to a in-person meeting
<tritium> s/a/an
<dholbach> bye tritium
<bur[n] er> hi all
<bur[n] er> anyone been able to get azureus-2.3.0.deb from sid working?  I get some gtk3 .deb as missing
<herve> gtk3? already? :-)
<bur[n] er> sorry, forgot the exact package
<bur[n] er> one sec
<bur[n] er> but the .deb for it will not install for some reason
<bur[n] er> libswt-gtk-3.1-java
<bur[n] er> that's the package needed
<herve> ha!
<herve> got it
<bur[n] er> ooh... i may have not just followed the dependencies fully
<bur[n] er> hrm... i'll test this later
<bur[n] er> libswt-gtk-3.1-jni_3.0 3.1M4-3_i386.deb
<bur[n] er> that's the package needed from sid... but i cna' download it via any of their mirrors
<bur[n] er> http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/s/swt-gtk/libswt-gtk-3.1-jni_3.0%203.1M4-3_i386.deb
<bur[n] er> doh, wrong link... here it is http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/download.pl?arch=i386&file=pool/main/s/swt-gtk/libswt-gtk-3.1-jni_3.0+3.1M4-3_i386.deb&md5sum=3392a50c6f4e266852ae7531bbe47b8b&arch=i386&type=main
<bur[n] er> on that note... i'll be idling... see ya
<tseng|work> ogra: cli-common is needed to run dh_* on mono itself, yes
<tseng|work> why wasnt it installable?
<ogra> tseng|work, because cli-common wasnt installable...
<ogra> tseng|work, so it couldnt build...
<tseng|work> thats what i mean
<tseng|work> didnt we ever get it built?
<ogra> we did...
<tseng|work> so, whats the deal now?
<ogra> mono is there currently, but built without cli-common dep.... next build will fix that, since its installable now... i'll look into why it was failing....
<darkaudit> anyone using the DirectX 9 patch for WINE?
<\sh> re
<dahane> wb
<\sh> sorry for being late...but work is much more important :(
<dholbach> -> #ubuntu-meeting
<\sh> right there ;) listening and synchronizing ;)
<tseng|work> going home
<herve> night all
* ajmitch_ returns
<tseng> hi
<dholbach> hey tseng
<tseng> whats up?
<tseng> meeting over?
<dholbach> no not yet
<tseng> hm well i gave my input i guess
<tseng> im not that thrilled about the "i cant fix this sucking because my boss wont let me" bit
<ajmitch_> hi tseng
<tseng> hi andrew
<dholbach> koke: when was it built?
<koke> not sure,  but IMO that is the kind of stuff I'd expect in a users ml/forum
<koke> maybe I'm wrong
<dholbach> it built 2004
<dholbach> before x.org presumably
<dholbach> koke:
<dholbach> cc1: warnings being treated as errors
<dholbach> rw_x11.c: In function 'install_grabs':
<dholbach> rw_x11.c:553: warning: unused variable 'MinorVersion'
<dholbach> rw_x11.c:553: warning: unused variable 'MajorVersion'
<\sh> well
<dholbach> so 618 seems to be a bug :-)
<koke> feature request for malone: filing bugs in persons :)
<\sh> 618 isn't really a bug
<koke> I need some of these
<\sh> a real bug is when you receive a new cpu board and it's not working and u have to remove all the broken stuff just before you want to leave work :(
<koke> \sh: I think you are having the same BOFH point of view than me :P
<ajmitch_> dholbach: well assigning that bug(or task) to me worked fine earlier :)
<ajmitch_> since I still play quake2 on my box ;)
<\sh> koke: only when I'm coming home after 14 hours of work
<dholbach> ajmitch_: excellent :-
<dholbach> :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-21
<\sh> well, it wasn't my day today...so i should quite for today and have some sleep
<\sh> s/today/yesterday/
* ajmitch_ hasn't done enough motu work today
<\sh> ajmitch_: lucky guy
<\sh> oh hasn't I read has ;)
<koke> hmmm, pleas go to https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/tasks/574/+edit
<koke> and click "Change" without changing anything
<\sh> jepp
<koke> do you see the dropdown with "Jorge Bernal" x 2 ??
<\sh> no
<ajmitch_> koke: yep
<koke> xD
<\sh> which browser?
<koke> Firefox
<ajmitch_> it assigned you twice? :)
<ajmitch_> firefox
<\sh> oh inside the dropdown
<koke> ajmitch_: but do Ctrl-L, Enter
<koke> and the dropdown disappear
* ajmitch_ can try in internet explorer if you want...
<ajmitch_> koke: hah, great
<\sh> strange
<\sh> i wonder how many pieces of broken javascript is inside this
* ajmitch_ gets back to testing
<koke> :D
<koke> I like bugzilla much more
<\sh> it would be easier to extend kbugbuster to meet our goals
<\sh> koke: for the single minded people, bugzilla is too complicated...for the double minded people, bugzilla is enough to work  and for triple minded people like us it's just like the garden of eden ;)
* ajmitch_ is the simple-minded type
<\sh> but anyway, to have a different approach on this discussion, i would like to see, when malone gives us the possibility to act as a "global frontend" to at least ubuntus and debians bugzilla engines
<koke> I'm schyzophrenic-minded
<koke> if that's the spelling :)
<koke> I like gnome as desktop system because of its simplicity and ease of use
<\sh> koke: u mean "member of gotham city asylum"? ,-)
<koke> but I *can't* handle my mail with evolution
<koke> I'm switching between kmail and mutt
<\sh> koke: same with me and exchange
<ajmitch_> \sh: but ubuntu's bugzilla is meant to disappear :)
<koke> ajmitch_: I think the point is
<\sh> ajmitch_: if malone can take over, most likely, but right now, i don't see it
<koke> a user should be able to file a bug without running away scared
<ajmitch_> \sh: suppsedly it's meant to be taking over completely in ~6 weeks ;)
<ajmitch_> koke: and they can do that with bugzilla??
<koke> but, a developer/maintainer should handle hundreds of bugs in the same time or less than with bugzilla
<\sh> ajmitch_: honestly? no way
<koke> ajmitch_: no, that's the point
<ajmitch_> \sh: that is the plan
<koke> the malone point is to ease the users life
<koke> but it should be as powerful as bugzilla for developers
<\sh> ajmitch_: yeah,  the plan...I know the plan ;) i saw it on first of april :) everything broke, just because of the plan ;)
<ajmitch_> heh
<koke> if you can get more bug reports  from more users, but you make the developers work slower, that will collapse :)
<koke> :D
<\sh> ajmitch_: it's always the same: there is a difference between marketing and those geeks known as technicians ;)
* ajmitch_ prefers to just work, not deal with a bts :)
<\sh> ajmitch_: put away the jokes...if malone should take over bugzilla, it must be get faster, and for the assigned "resolver" easier to handle. information at your fingertips...and not "click here click there"
<ajmitch_> \sh: sadly it was no joke :)
<koke> yep but the *big* problem is that the bts is the piece of software between those crazy geeks and those users
<koke> so it's really hard to make both sides happy
<\sh> koke: no...
<\sh> koke: u only have to find the right interface between user (easy to handle) and geek (easy to work with)
<\sh> user needs an easy interface to enter his problem...
<koke> I would do a "report tool for dummies"
<\sh> geek needs a shellscript with "1. take 2. enter comment 3. attach patch 4. resolve 5. reject 6. upstream task" ,-)
<koke> like the gnome simple bug guide
<koke> and for the geeky part something just like bugzilla + xmlrpc (or smth similar) interface
<koke> and let the scripting party start :D
<\sh> well, lets see what will await us in the next weeks of malone...i mean, solving puzzles like the "windows way" is no problem for us ;) so using malone won't harm us at all
<\sh> and I really need to get some sleep right now
<koke> me too
<\sh> so that i can send thom the SER package today
<\sh> so good night ..cu in the morning
<thom> night dude
<koke> w0w, gnat 3.15 Build-Depends on gnat (>=3.14), gnat (<<3.16)
<ajmitch_> heh
<ajmitch_> bootstrapping craziness?
<koke> it installs gnat-4.0 and fails
<ajmitch_> one of the c++ transitions, or something else you needed to fix? :)
<dholbach> sleep tight everyone
<koke> I don't know, I had a bug on that
<ajmitch_> night dholbach
<koke> I think it was from the UniverseDoesNotBuild
* ajmitch_ needs to feed his upload addiction
<koke> the problem was with libflorist-3.15p-1
<koke> which depends on gnat-3.15
<ajmitch_> which build-deps on itself
<koke> yep
<ajmitch_> crack
<dholbach> bootstrapping at its best
<ajmitch_> :)
<ajmitch_> bootstrapping with strict dependencies is annoying
<dholbach> i won't bother - i did my daily upload ;-)
<koke> the gnu pages are sooo ugly
<koke> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnat/ <-- do you think this can be the homepage for any piece of software??
<ajmitch_> koke: btw, qemu 0.6.1 also fails with gcc 4.0, I've tried building it in my mad merge run ;)
<koke> gvien that gnat is "relatively" widely used
<ajmitch_> ugly
<koke> ajmitch_: I guessed that, it's not a 0.7 problem, it's a 4.0 one :)
<ajmitch_> yep
<koke> the qemu hackers are nice
<koke> <pbrook> koke: Use gcc3.4
<koke> <pbrook> I fixed the same problem for x86 recently. Fixing ppc should be easier.
<koke> I hope they'll fix "soon"
<ajmitch_> maybe I could pull the patch from cvs?
<ajmitch_> dpatch is nice like that
<koke> To compile Ada from the sources, install an older working Ada compiler....
<koke> :D
<ajmitch_> of course
<ajmitch_> but not the one you're trying to build..
<doko> ajmitch_, don't waste that much time on python modules ... they will be synced, when Debian unfreezes ...
<ajmitch_> doko: ok..
* koke sleep()
<doko> koke: gnat shouldn't be touched, it all relies on gnat-3.15, and should be fine.
<whiprush> tseng: around?
<ajmitch_> hey whiprush
<whiprush> hey aj
<ajmitch_> what's new?
<whiprush> not much
<whiprush> catching up at work mostly.
<ajmitch_> yeah, I'm at work at the moment
<schweeb> you were at work whip?  I should have stopped by on the way home to harass you
<whiprush> no I wasn't
<schweeb> ah
<whiprush> My affliction of sladen-disease continues to rear its ugly head.
<ajmitch_> heh
<ajmitch_> I seemed to have missed flubuntu
<whiprush> everyone in the office is sick now, it's miserable
<ajmitch_> "I went to UDU, and all I got was a the flu"
<whiprush> "I went to UDU and all I got was flamed by bob2."
<schweeb> all it takes to cure yourself is to curl up with a fifth of liquor and don't stop drinking till it's gone... sure to kill any infection
<ajmitch_> whiprush: haha
<whiprush> I think that's how nyquil works.
<whiprush> it doesn't actually do anything but make you drunk.
<ajmitch_> makes it more tolerable
<sladen> whiprush: I read a BBC article today and the jorno said ''the plague'' was doing the rounds at the Canne film festival
<whiprush> for the next ubuntu conference they should have a cart, like they used to do for the black death
<whiprush> then we can just throw people in there and  have them taken away.
<crimsun> bring out your dead!
<ajmitch_> "I'm not dead!"
<crimsun> *tonk*
<sladen> sounds like a Blackadder skit
<crimsun> good ole monty python
<ajmitch_> :)
<tseng> whiprush: yes
<jabra> hey guys umm executing debuild in a chroot using fakeroot is giving some errors
<jabra> anyone have any idea sh: /dev/null: Permission denied
<jabra> /usr/bin/dpkg-buildpackage: line 52: /dev/null: Permission denied
<jabra> /usr/bin/dpkg-buildpackage: line 54: /dev/null: Permission denied
<jabra> dpkg-buildpackage: source package is getwifi
<crimsun> jabra: are you not using pbuilder?
<jabra> umm no
<jabra> just like debuild
<crimsun> it's always prefered that one use pbuilder
<jabra> should I use pbuilder
<jabra> ok well the docs I found online were for debuild and dh_make
<crimsun> what are you trying to do?
<jabra> build a package
<crimsun> for personal use or for practice or for universe?
<jabra> unviverse
<jabra> I wanta get it accepted
<crimsun> I highly recommend you use pbuilder, because if you intend to make the package for universe, you'll need to be familiar with pbuilder regardless
<jabra> I made some changes that we suggested I make and I wanta do it
<jabra> ok
<jabra> so I will go doc hunting then
<crimsun> sure. I can also give you the quick breakdown:
<jabra> awesome
* jabra is all ears
<crimsun> sudo aptitude install pbuilder
<jabra> got it install already in the chroot
<crimsun> cp /etc/pbuilderrc ~/.pbuilderrc
<jabra> ok
<crimsun> change MIRRORSITE to http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
<tseng> dude just use the wiki howto
<tseng> PbuilderHowto
<crimsun> oh yeah, I totally forgot about that
<jabra> ok I will look at that
<jabra> awesome thanks
<jabra> cool
<jabra> Save the file and run the command below to build your hoary chroot: that is the only thing I don't understand?
<jabra> what if I already have a chroot?
<tseng> pbuilder makes its own chroot
<jabra> ok so chroot inside a chroot?
<tseng> um
<tseng> possibly?
<tseng> your main ubuntu install is a chroot?
<jabra> I setup a debootstrap and made a breezy chroot
<tseng> ok well
<tseng> pbuilder can be its own breezy chroot
<jabra> no I am running hoary with a breezy chroot
<tseng> ignore the other one
<tseng> buh comeon
<jabra> ok so nuke it?
<tseng> nuke what?
<jabra> the thing I have
<tseng> if you want
<tseng> there is no problem having it
<jabra> ok
<tseng> could be fine for testing the packages you build
<jabra> ok watever for testing or whatever
<tseng> if you dont actually have a breezy system
<jabra> ya exactyl
<jabra> right
<jabra> ok ya
<Unfrgiven> jabra: from your hoary install, setup pbuilder like the pbuilder howto says. pbuilder will build its own chroot.
<jabra> right
<tseng> pbuilder kills all changes on every instance
<tseng> so its not great for test install
<Unfrgiven> you dont need to setup your own chroot for builder
<jabra> but if I already had it setup
<Unfrgiven> its easier to forget your own chroot and use pbuilders
<jabra> ya that is what I am going to do then
<Unfrgiven> pbuilder will build a new chroot everytime you run it.
<jabra> aight
<jabra> hmm getting weird errors
<jabra> should I use borary or breezy for the pbuilder
<Burgundavia> breezy, if you are building for breezy
<jabra> ok then
<Burgundavia> you can have a breezy pbuilder on a hoary machine
<jabra> uilding the build environment
<jabra>  -> running debootstrap
<jabra> I: Retrieving debootstrap.invalid_dists_hoary_Release
<jabra> E: Interrupt caught ... exiting
<jabra> pbuilder: debootstrap failed
<jabra>  -> Aborting with an error
<jabra>  -> cleaning the build env
<jabra> that is wat i am getting
<jabra> no clue why
<abarbaccia> hey all - whats the status of gnome-bluetooth in breezy - because its broken in hoary
<abarbaccia> and i have a nice array of bluetooth devices i can help test on
<ajmitch_> how is it broken in hoary?
<abarbaccia> well, it recognized my bluetooth - and then it finds my devices - but will never connect to transfer
<abarbaccia> i googled a bit and there are bug reports and stuff for it
<abarbaccia> it worked in warty then broke in hoary
<ajmitch_> talk to pitti & thom if you want to help with bluetooth in breezy then
<ajmitch_> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothSupport
<schweeb> yea
<schweeb> get that shyte working
<schweeb> I'm getting  a bluetooth cellphone very soon
<schweeb> and a shiny new IBM X41 laptop
* ajmitch_ still has his nice shiny pII-400 laptop ;)
<schweeb> hah
<schweeb> I have my broken-ass Dell i8200 P4m-1.7Ghz
<jabra> ok I fixed the problem I was having
<ivoks> hi
<ajmitch_> hi ivoks
<ivoks> o, ajmitch_
<ivoks> lol, our police buyed new interceptors... 2 superbs, 2 mondeos, 4 passat, accord and vectra
<ivoks> no more speeding on highways :)
<Shamilton0360> anyone know how to have openoffice etc load into memory when the computer starts to lower load time?
<ivoks> Shamilton0360 ooo-something
<ivoks> ooqstart-gnome - OpenOffice.org QuickStarter applet for GNOME 2
<schweeb> "quick" is a relative term
<Burgundavia> i don't think OO.o and quick belong in the same sentence with not being involved
<schweeb> and are you thinking of prelink?
<Shamilton0360> uuhhmmm what is the root password on a clean instal?
<schweeb> sudo -s
<Shamilton0360> ???
<schweeb> use sudo -s
<schweeb> rather than logging in as root
<schweeb> or using su
<schweeb> sudo -s will ask for your password
<schweeb> there /is/ no password
<Burgundavia> Shamilton0360, wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo
<schweeb> and it's more of a #ubuntu question
<Shamilton0360> sorry
<Shamilton0360> well good night.
<ivoks> i have problems with manpages
<tritium> hey - what happened to you the other day, ivoks ?
<ivoks> when i build package, tey aren
<ivoks> 't installing
<ivoks> when?
<tritium> when I was giving you the tutorial on RF propagation, etc.
<ivoks> ah...
<tritium> you vanished ;)
<ivoks> sorry about that... my father called me, and my laptop run out of battery :)
<tritium> no problem :)
<ivoks> well.. about that manpages...
<tritium> yeah, can you paste your debian/rules somewhere so I can see it?
<ivoks> i have wifi-radar.1 and wifi-radar.5
<ivoks> hm... sure...a sec
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/rules
<ivoks> that's .ex
<tritium> okay
<ivoks> and, i have wifi-radar.1 and wifi-radar.conf.1
<ivoks> .5
<ivoks> .conf.5, not .1 :)
<tritium> Not sure, ivoks
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> dh_installman should do it, right?
<tritium> yes
<ivoks> if I strace that... i get this:
<ivoks> stat64("debian/wifi-radar.manpages", 0x814c0c8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
<ivoks> shouldn't it be debian/wifi-radar.[12345678] ?
<ajmitch_> nope
<ajmitch_> you list the files in debian/wifi-radar.manpages
<ivoks> ah..
<ivoks> what's the syntax?
<tritium> thanks, ajmitch_
<ivoks> thanks ajmitch_ ;)
<ajmitch_> ivoks: the manpages, listed one per line :)
<ivoks> ok :)
<ivoks> all right!
<ivoks>  /usr/share/man/man8/wifi-radar.conf.8.gz
<ivoks> wtf?! :)
<ivoks> 8?
<ivoks> ok, typo :)
<ivoks> ok, ready for review :)
<crimmy> welp, finally junked my 7 year-old Debian install for Ubuntu
<ivoks> hehe
<crimmy> lvm is sweet
<ivoks> allways been
<crimmy> I still have a 5.25" diskette drive in here that I used to install Debian ;)
<ivoks> i don't know where my potato CDs are
<ivoks> my first debian was from one pc magazine... they distributed it one 3 CDs, one CD every month...
<ivoks> thas was the end of RedHat on my computers...
<g14> My first debian was ubuntu
<crimmy> I remember rh 5.0 and 6.2
<g14> Used redhat 5 with enlightenment as the wm
<g14> crazy
<ivoks> i used potato with enlightenment :)
<ivoks> first redhat was 5.2
<ivoks> as potato, i buyed it tobacco shop :)
<ivoks> s/it/it in/
<crimmy> woops, need linux-686-smp, brb
<crimmy> ah, much better. :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> how many procs?
<crimmy> 2 (P3 1 GHz)
<ivoks> nice
<crimmy> system has been upgraded so often
<ivoks> omg
<ivoks> someone disconnected server from network
<ivoks> the problem is that 60 other computers mount root over NFS from it
<crimmy> that doesn't bode well
<ivoks> and they are all in cluster :)
<ivoks> over 400 jobs died
<abarbaccia> yo you want to hear something crazy guys
<ivoks> allways :)
<abarbaccia> the new xbox 360 will have 3 processors, water cooling and over 1 trillion processes a second
<ivoks> ah...
<crimmy> they'll make nice breezy boxes then
<abarbaccia> it has usb to handle digital cameras, memory cards, mp3s
<abarbaccia> its wireless g
<abarbaccia> 40gb hdd
<abarbaccia> they recorded the "first release" today to air in a week and the whole thing like slipped out
<ivoks> darGor system pref. themes
<ivoks> we need fix for firefox!
<Treenaks> ivoks: poke thom :)
<ivoks> msg him?
<koke> hi all!
<crimmy> good $timeOfDay!
<koke> :D
<crimsun> wow, dpkg sure flies when it doesn't have half a decade of cruft tying it down
<ivoks> ah... firefox problems :(
<robitaille> ivoks,  which problems this time?
<ivoks> ubuntu related
<ivoks> it is 1.0.2
<ivoks> with all bugfixes from 1.0.3 and 1.0.4
<ivoks> that makes it version 1.0.4, doesn't it?
<ivoks> but... version string syas 1.0.2
<ivoks> and... now when you try to get some extensions, mozilla suggest upgrade
<ivoks> and doesn't allow you to install extensions
<ivoks> so... stoopid situation
<robitaille> yep; same problem here.  It must be a new thing on mozilla.org's side since I can't remember seeing that in the past
<ivoks> it is
<\sh> morning
<\sh> *yawn*
<robitaille> ivoks,  have you submitted a bug report about this?
<ivoks> no
<ivoks> will do now
<crimsun> and ping thom about the mozilla-firefox issue when he's awake
<robitaille> I'm sure Thom will see the bug report.
<crimsun> oh he will :)
<robitaille> I wonder if there is a way around the problem beside actually naming our firefox 1.0.4....
<ivoks> there is
<ivoks> just change version string in firefox
<ivoks> not package name
<robitaille> if you thought people were confused before, just imagine the story with Firefox displaying a different version than the version number of the package.
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10681 - there...
<ivoks> someone with better english should add couple of comments :)
<\sh> ok..i hate this all...
<\sh> bugs should be reproduced in the standard locale
<ivoks> ?
<\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9841
<\sh> i'd try to reproduce it, but it's working correctly. I don't see the issue at all. now I know, that this guy is using dutch locale, i have to rearrange my locale settings to non-understandable dutch settings ;)
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> anybody is a native dutch speaker? ,-)
<Treenaks> \sh: hm?
<\sh> <insert>here </insert>
<Treenaks> \sh: I'm one
<\sh> Treenaks: can u have a look on this bug?
<Treenaks> url?
<\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9841
<Treenaks> \sh: the screenshot? or something else?
<Treenaks> \sh: "Bladwijzer" is "bookmark", "Nieuwe map" is "new folder", what more do you need?
<\sh> Treenaks: no the whole story. i tried to reproduce it, but my firefox (en_US) is just working fine
<\sh> Treenaks: he is creating under the "bookmark" folder a new folder
<\sh> but this "new folder" is not shown in the drop down
<\sh> (for him)
<\sh> I walked all the steps top down and it's working here
<Treenaks> works fine for me (Dutch locale)
<\sh> what could it be then
<Treenaks> even better: it's selected by default when I create it
<\sh> Treenaks: yeah
<Treenaks> I'd say User Error
<koke> anyone having problems with libpng12 ?
<\sh> ok..i will reject or resolving
<ivoks> let's take a look
<ivoks> could be permissons in his ~?
<\sh> ivoks: for the bookmarks?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> i don't know... long shot :)
<\sh> but if he's creating one item inside this new folder via manager, it's working
<\sh> so no item in new folder== not working
<ivoks> yeah, true...
<\sh> one item in new folder == working
<\sh> so permissions is not the cause
<\sh> resolve bug to: worksforme with a comment
<ivoks> Treenaks what's dutch locales? nl_NL?
<Treenaks> ivoks: ack
<\sh> ivoks: set it in firefox ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i give up :)
<\sh> hehe...worksforme is the right solution ;)
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> guy dived on north pol... 50m under ice :)
<ivoks> without oxygen
<koke> I need some tester
<ivoks> for...?
<koke> could anyone please build&test pinball from...
<koke> http://amedias.org/~koke/debian/breezy/
<koke> I think I have  a broken libpng
<ivoks> no source
<koke> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/p/pinball/pinball_0.3.1.orig.tar.gz
<koke> sorry
<ivoks> uh... 6 mega...
<koke> yep, the sounds are .wav
<koke> first, do you have imagemagick installed?
<ivoks> still d/w source :)
<ivoks> i have
<koke> the command display face2.png gives me a libpng error: Decompression error
<koke> http://amedias.org/~koke/misc/face2.png
<koke> check it please
<koke> but it shows ok with firefox and eog
<koke> the strange thing is that eog and imagemagick are using the same libpng12-0
<koke> back in 5 mins
<ivoks> uh, lot of -dev...
<ivoks> koke
<koke> ivoks: tell me
<ivoks> it compiles ok
<ivoks> but freezes on start
<ivoks> times out on something
<ivoks> select(0, NULL, NULL, NULL, {0, 10000}) = 0 (Timeout)
<koke> it shows a "libpng error: Decompression error" ??
<ivoks> nope
<ivoks> wait...
<ivoks> ah..
<ivoks> Vendor     : open /dev/sequencer: No such device
<ivoks> here it stops..
<koke> ivoks: I think the select is the game menu waiting for input
<koke> thanks anyway
<koke> I think I've fixed the build bug, but it doesn't work :(
<koke> ivoks: what arch are you using?
<\sh> another try to get rid of lintian errors on ser
<\sh> W: ser source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<\sh> W: ser source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.8.14-0ubuntu1
<ogra> \sh, these are ok
<\sh> ogra: so it's not being critical to forget them?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> we have no fixed maintainers, so we cant have NMU's
<\sh> thx :) I'm building here and building there...only to get rid of those warnings ;)
<\sh> and I want to have this: http://pydev.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html
<\sh> ah thom :)
<\sh> the right man at the right time :)
<janm> Hi, I just rebuilt the ruby-gnome2 bindings (0.12) from debian in ubuntu and I just want to know if the maintainer is interested for a patch? If so, where should I file it? thanks.
<ogra> lol, Requirements:
<ogra> # Eclipse 3.0.x
<ogra> so you need java to develop python with it ?
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ogra: eclipse native compile with gcj
* ogra stays with plain vi
<Treenaks> ogra: not vim?
<ogra> Treenaks, all incarnations.... i us nvi if nothing else is around ;)
<ogra> use even
<Treenaks> elvis
<\sh> ogra: i like eclipse, it's the only java application i really admire
<\sh> thom: check your jabber messages...url for downloading all stuff for SER...forget about manpages and non-stripped binaries :)
<\sh> well, the others here can test it as well
<\sh> http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/index1.php?path=ser
* \sh has to write manpages this evenin
<\sh> g
<\sh> and create packages without debug code
<ivoks> back
<ivoks> koke i386
<koke> could you try the version in the archive and tell me if it crashes the same way??
<ivoks> k... sec
<ivoks> koke it works
<koke> ouch!
<ivoks> well
<ivoks> you'll do better next time :)
<koke> ivoks: it should be the same for you
<koke> the changelog is  * depend on libsvga1-dev only in i386.
<ivoks> gtg
<ivoks> see yo
<ivoks> you
<koke> hmmm, maybe gcc 4.0 problem
<dholbach> hellas
<dholbach> doko and i had a lovely chat some minutes ago and he advised us to make the c++ transition NOW :-)
<dholbach> and upload them on tuesday
<dholbach> how does that sound?
<ogra> wow, great response :)
<ajmitch_> sounds good to me
* ajmitch_ has a busy weekend, unfortunately
<ajmitch_> hi chmj
<doko> dholbach: short summary ... ;)
<chmj> hi ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> doko: just use the debs on your p.u.c repository to get g++ 4 as default then?
<dholbach> doko: did i forget something? ;-)
<doko> ajmitch_: yes
<ajmitch_> ok :)
<ajmitch_> so how long do we think it'll take? 2 weeks?
<koke> hey I've just seen gwget in the NewPackages list
<dholbach> noooo
<koke> but we already have gwget2
<dholbach> i will remove it
<ajmitch_> hey koke :)
<koke> dholbach: it seems it's the same stuff :)
<dholbach> koke: updated
<koke> great :D
<dholbach> cleaned MOTUNewPackages a bit
<\sh> doko: url to your repos?
<doko> \sh, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList
<Burgundavia> where is package request page again?
<dholbach> UniverseCandidates
<ivoks> hi
<goofrider> weeeeeeeee
<goofrider> dholbach, FYI i'm still reading manuals
<goofrider> LOL
<koke> dholbach: do you have a raw list of UniverseCXXTransition??
<dholbach> good one
<dholbach> koke: i didnt make that list, you should ask doko for that
<janm> dholbach: hi, just wondering if you're interested for a ruby-gnome2 0.12ubuntu1 .diff.gz? I just rebuilt it here and seems that breezy doesn't have them yet?
<koke> I want to script something to extract patches for bts
<dholbach> janm: so you packaged a newer version? put it on MOTUToReview please
<ivoks> omg! my bookmarks!
<ivoks> all gone
<ivoks> all settings are gone... oh, god, why?!
<koke> doko: do you have something more "machine-readable" than the wiki page??
<janm> dholbach: ok, will do. thanks..
<ogra> ivoks, did you run ff as root ?
<dholbach> janm: thank you
<ivoks> ogra no
<ogra> ran out of diskspace ?
<ivoks> extensions are still here
<ivoks> but bookmarks and extension settings are gone
<goofrider> koke, like... punchcards?
<ivoks> no, disk is fine
<ivoks> cache and histroy gone is deleted too
<ivoks> ah, well...
<goofrider> ivoks, what happened?
<ivoks> now i have to find that good porn sites again :)
<ivoks> goofrider my box freezed while resuming after suspend
<ivoks> that never happend before
<ivoks> firefox wasn't running
<goofrider> and it corrupted the FS?
<goofrider> oh the humanity
<koke> ivoks: try find ~/.mozilla -name bookmarks.html
<ivoks> only one is there
<ivoks> empty :(
<koke> big pain then
<ivoks> hm... wait
<ivoks> there is on in .mozilla/default
<ivoks> but that's not mine :(
<goofrider> ivoks, u don't happen to use a separate partition for /home???
<goofrider> cuz it might not be mounted
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> it is mounted :)
<ivoks> but, good one :)
<doko> koke: get the source of the wiki page. that is machine readable. btw, for what do you need it?
<ivoks> dholbach new wiki? :)
<dholbach> new wiki?
<ivoks> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages redesign :)
<dholbach> yes... we clearly needed it :-)
<schweeb> dholbach: !
<schweeb> morning
<ivoks> ok, i will fill out missing link for my package :)
<ivoks> or fill in..
<dholbach> hey schweeb, how's it going?
<schweeb> good good
<schweeb> haven't heard back from mako to hear if I have to sign the CoC again yet
<dholbach> ecellent
<schweeb> since I already signed it a while back
<dholbach> hrhrmhrmhrm, he should have some auto-reply by now ;-)
<schweeb> lol
<dholbach> i'll be off to do some work on my thesis
<dholbach> see you later
<schweeb> later
* schweeb goes to work himself
<koke> doko: <koke> I want to script something to extract patches from bts
<koke> maybe apply them and just review packages :)
<doko> koke: that's already done. do you know http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCxxTransition ?
<koke> doko: I mean extracting the real patches from the bug reports
<koke> tryinig to auto-transition where possible
<doko> koke: for what kind of packages?
<koke> all on that list
<ivoks> fsapo applications, system, bug report
<ivoks> you are free to review wifi-radar :)
<\sh> argl
<\sh> everythings messing up here
<ivoks> where?
<\sh> in my company right now :)
<pef> hello
<pef> I want to fix a package which has in bugzilla "new changes from Debian require merging", how can I do ? Do I juste need to rebuild the changes file, to sign it, and to post that inhttp://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUToReview ? Am I right ?
<\sh> guys u r really fast with the c++ stuff
<koke> could anyone send me the source for the UniverseCXXTransition page??
<koke> my firefox crashes when loading
<koke> :(
<\sh> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList
<\sh> sorry
<ivoks> \sh this all should be..what?
<ivoks> converted to c++?
<ivoks> or to gcc4.0?
<\sh> ivoks: gcc4 and g++4 ;)
<\sh> most of the things are g++4 related...
<ivoks> lol
<ogra> ivoks, havent you been around in the meeting ?
<ivoks> ogra nope
<\sh> ivoks: no joke
<\sh> ogra: kdelibs4 doesn't need to be renamed, right?
<ivoks> ogra i'm not MOTU
<\sh> ivoks: so? i'm also no MOTU :)
<ogra> ivoks, its all described here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCXXTransition
<ogra> ivoks, but youre on your way, arent you ?
<ivoks> well, i'm on my way to finish studying, but... :)
<\sh> ivoks: what have studying to do with being a motu?
<\sh> to be a motu it's an honour, to be a professor it's a profession ;)
<\sh> *drugs*
<ivoks> :))
<\sh> ogra: greetings from peter
<ivoks> well, i'll do what I can do..
<ivoks> i don't have ppc and amd64
<ogra> \sh, geetings back :-D
<ogra> ivoks, thats what the buildds are for
<ivoks> ok
<ogra> if something fails on a specific arch, you find the error in the buildlog and upload again....
<\sh> ogra: the update to hal and dbus the last days, are they required to have a clean run for gnome-power-manager?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> \sh, thats why i havent packaged it yet.... will be my first thing to do next week
<ivoks> ok.. i'll start with 3ddesktop
<ivoks> it looks easy :)
<\sh> ogra: ah u answered my second question
<ogra> \sh, which second question ?
<\sh> ogra: well...i will have a quick look this evening in the source...to have an overview what has to be done for the kde stuff
<ivoks> ogra can you explain buildd?
<ogra> \sh, ah, ok
<\sh> ogra: if gnome-power-manager is in the repos and already packaged :)
<ogra> \sh, as i said, i'll do a package next week, should be in shape latest at wednesday (but likely earlier) if hal doesnt break heavily
<\sh> ogra: yeah...i only need to have a clue whats inside ... so i'll use the original source. when u're finished with the package, i will see it :)
<\sh> question is now, do we need to rename kdelibs4 or not
<ogra> ivoks, the servers that build our packages.... we upload to the upload server, the build daemon picks up the source package (there is one active buildd for each arch at least) and tries to build it in a pbuilder environment if its done, it spits out a build log (newest at bottom): http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
<ogra> \sh, no idea about kdelibs, ask the kubuntu squad
<ogra> but since everything related to c++ has to be renamed its likely...
<ogra> (i heard there are some apps that depend on kdelibs)
<ogra> \sh, have a deep look inside hal and dbus for the powermanager internals
<\sh> ogra: yeah...
<\sh> riddel: ping :)
<ogra> missed one l
<\sh> oh
<\sh> uh
<\sh> riddell: ping :)
<ivoks> ogra this log is too red :)
<ogra> ivoks, yeah, we are the guys with the blue color ;)
<ivoks> so, I need to patch source and upload it?
<\sh> ivoks: u r not able to upload neither am i..
<ivoks> i understand that
<\sh> ivoks: put the package on MOTUToReview and someone of the MOTUs like Ogra will take it and review it and upload it
<\sh> huu
<\sh> what is this?
<\sh> TBC
<\sh>   ExpandingUniverse
<\sh>    dholbach
<\sh>    ogra
<\sh>    ajmitch, \sh?
<\sh>    WIP
<\sh> did I say yes to this?
<ogra> \sh, you want to be a motu, you have no choice to say no ;)
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> you are doomed
<ogra> this list could contain all motus ;)
<Mithrandir> the universe expands.  It's its nature!
<ogra> yeah
<\sh> ogra: hehee
<\sh> ogra: what? only 4?
<\sh> ogra: i was really tired at this time :) but anyways ... a pleasure to help :=
<ogra> \sh, they are the SPOCs
<\sh> SPOCs?
<ogra> single point of contact
<ogra> points rather
<\sh> ok...
<\sh> abbreviations
<ivoks> \sh ok, point me a bit, could you? :)
<ivoks> \sh i patched 3ddesktop, e.g
<ivoks> \sh now i should bzip that and report it ir what?
<ivoks> s/ir/or/
<\sh> ah...transcript of cxxtransistion meeting somewhere?
<\sh> anyways
<\sh> if you pick up a package which u want to compile and fix for g++4
<ivoks> :)
* ajmitch_ will attack that list tomorrow, time for sleep now ;)
<tseng|work> see you "tommorow" aj
<ivoks> ajmitch_ night
<\sh> sorry...no time to finish my sentence
<\sh> work
<ivoks> it's ok
<ivoks> i'm reading http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition
<tseng|work> ogra: can python do threading?
<ogra> tseng|work, i think so...
<ogra> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/thread-objects.html
<tseng|work> ok
<tseng|work> i dont trust php to do forking/threading
<ogra> uh, thats possible ?
<tseng|work> sortof
<ivoks> ok, i will have to check the documentation for this, and then I might help
<ivoks> i have one cluster with 60 computers if that could help?
<ivoks> all i386
<ogra> heh, miguel d icaza has no clue where to put section numbers in manpages *grin*
<ivoks> ok... see you guys
<ivoks> and girls, if any
<jabra> gmorning guys
<Nafallo> jabra: morning
<koke> bye
<\sh> time to go home and do some work
<\sh> laters
<tseng|work> buh php
<ogra> heh
<tseng|work> so my choices are:
<tseng|work> php || expect
<tseng|work> no one else here even speaks bash
<ogra> tseng|work, no chance for py ?
<tseng|work> nope
<tseng|work> i have to make my php script fork itself, which i refuse
<tseng|work> or wrap it in an expect scrip that spawns X number at a time
<tseng|work> and waits for eof
<ogra> bah
<ivoks> me, again
<bradb> hey dudes
<ogra> hey brad
<ivoks> one more time ubuntu didn't wake up after suspend to ram :(
<ivoks> now i lost .pan
<bradb> i'm going to write up the MOTU report today after i've had a chance to get some code in a reviewer queue. what list(s) do you want me to send it to?
<ivoks> something is going on...
<bradb> (the Malone MOTU report that is :)
<ogra> ubuntu-devel
<ogra> is my best guess
<zerokarmaleft> tseng|work, shouldn't libgecko-cil be built against mozilla-firefox instead of mozilla-browser?
<bradb> ogra: ok
<ogra> zerokarmaleft, my bad
<zerokarmaleft> no worries
<tseng|work> I want to get everything freaking built before we start worrying about smaller things like this
<ogra> zerokarmaleft, but i'm currently more in basic cleanup tasks for mono, gtk-sharp nad gecko are on my list for tomorrow
<tseng|work> ogra: is it safe for me to start uploading more de-/usr/share/dotnet and new upstream versions?
<ogra> tseng|work, so teach miguel to write proper manpages... his are a mess...
<ogra> tseng|work, new versions of what ?
<tseng|work> f-spot, hopefully beagle soon
<tseng|work> fix up muine
<tseng|work> i *need* a new gecko-sharp 2
<ogra> tseng|work, hmm, dunno if they work with the current gtk-sharp, its still not rebuild... but i guess it should work...
<ogra> ...since cli-common definately works now
<tseng|work> hm right
<tseng|work> libgnome-cil needs dep fix first
<ogra> yep
<tseng|work> how much stuff did we add deps to before "freeze"
<tseng|work> id like to undo that to not cause conflicts with debian
<ogra> which freeze do you mean ?
* tseng|work writes a /ignore regex for the words "missing deps"
<ogra> heh
<ogra> write a forward rule to ogra ;)
<tseng|work> where I stopped uploading stuff when we realized what was broke
<ogra> hmm, lets make a debdiff if its done...
<ivoks> ogra can i take any package from the list or i should check for dependecys?
<ogra> but i guess some of my fixes will be fine for debian...
<ogra> ... i.e. the manpages i just fixed...
<tseng|work> its friday, so it would be great if i could dive back in for the weekend
<tseng|work> :)
<ogra> i'll try to do the upload soon today
<tseng|work> ogra++
<\sh> re
<ivoks> \sh
<\sh> finally it's friday, 2 hours of rest will do, and then until Monday, 11:59pm pure hacking
<ivoks> wb
<danboid> Hi! I want to install transcode on Hoary- whats the easiest way?
<danboid> Do I need to add breezy to sources.list?
<danboid> what do i add?
<ivoks> ubuntuguid.org
<ivoks> ubuntuguide.org
<danboid> no mention of transcode on that page
<ivoks> ogra here... i patched one source and build a package... what's my next step?
<ogra> ivoks, upload the source to a server and put a note and the url on MOTUToRewiew on the wiki
<ivoks> ogra just to check if I did this right...
<ivoks> ogra i downloaded debian source, got patch for amd64/gcc4, added patch to patches dir, build it, sign it, and that's it...
<ogra> sounds good
<ivoks> ok, review will tell :)
<ogra> yep
<ivoks> ogra sources we take from sid?
<ogra> normally you take it from breezy... which currently should be identical to sid.... if its a merge you can safely take the sid package...
<ivoks> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCxxTransition
<ivoks> i follow links from there
<ogra> ok
<ivoks> this looks too easy... :)
<ogra> heh, it is
<ogra> but we can work out something to make it harder if youre not happy with it ;)
<ivoks> i tought maybe i'm doing it wrong...
<ivoks> no, no... this is ok :)
<ogra> *g*
<ivoks> i guess there are some packages that don't have patches?
<ogra> sure... and there are packages that need quite a bit more work then just a recompile
<ivoks> i guess
<ivoks> well, for now, i'll do this stoopid part, recompiling :)
<ogra> thats a good practice... it trains you to read the errors and warnings...
<ivoks> does it? :)
<ivoks> ok.. 6 apps in few minutes
<ivoks> one more and then food :)
<ogra> ivoks, erm, not the c++ apps please
<ogra> we need the librarys first
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> well, they wouldn't build if libs aren't there, right?
<ivoks> ok... libs...
<ogra> if the libs have changed they probably wont build anymore... so working on them now is pointless until all libs are updated
<ivoks> well, ok
<Nafallo> ogra: it's not time to start with the libs til monday if I get everything correctly?
<Nafallo> s/get/got/
<ogra> Nafallo, you can prepare source packages already...
<Nafallo> ogra: hmm, true.
<ivoks> hm, food first :)
<ivoks> one more thing...
<ivoks> I'm using breezy's gcc4 is that ok?
<Nafallo> hehe, and then I'll just do for i in *.dsc; do sudo xargs pbuilder build; done ;-)
<ogra> ivoks, yes, thats exactly wha this transition is for ;)
<ivoks> :) ok
<Nafallo> hmm, that shouldn't work I just reminded myself :-P.
<ogra> Nafallo, sudo pbuilder build *.dsc should work....
<ogra> (in the right dir indeed)
<ivoks> who's doko?! :) he took all patched packages :)
<Nafallo> ogra: hmm, you have to build the new version before you get the *.dsc for it, right?
<ogra> he leads the transition and built the gcc g++ packages for us
<ogra> Nafallo, yep... but afterwards you can just assbuild in pbuilder
<ogra> massbuild even
<Nafallo> ogra: I build my packages with pdebuild so that I don't get lot's of -dev on my main system :-).
<ogra> ah, ok
<Lathiat> i wish pdebuild woudl drop the files out in the parent directory
<Lathiat> i should alias that or something
<Nafallo> Lathiat: what's wrong with ..?
<Lathiat> well mine puts them in /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<Lathiat> its just a small annoyance :)
<doko> Nafallo, it's good anyway, if someone reviews these packages. you can _really_ screw the system. best to submit a bug report in bugzilla and put someone (ogra, me) on the CC
<doko> ivoks: you can take every package you patch yourself
<Nafallo> Lathiat: hmm, mine does to I see now :-).
<Nafallo> doko: I don't follow. when do I screw what system?
<doko> Nafallo: breezy
<Nafallo> doko: ooh, you mean that way. I see now. ofcourse ppl should review what I do. I'm not a MOTU (yet) :-).
<Nafallo> and I'm new at both packaging and programming ;-)
<doko> Nafallo: you now have a chance to learn packaging ;)
<Nafallo> doko: that's why I'm here :-D
<Lathiat> Another sucke... i mean hi welcome to the project
<Nafallo> Lathiat: hehe ;)
<ivoks> back...
<ivoks> well, i'll try to patch one or two :)
<ivoks> but i don't have ppc/amd64
<Nafallo> ogra: say hi to my gothcat on #ubuntu-love ;-)
<tseng|work> hi
<Nafallo> hi tseng :-)
<ogra> tseng|work, down to 2 lintian warnings with mono now... there is still a handful of stuff i'd like to sort before release, but after my current pbuilder testbuild finished i'll upload
<tseng|work> ok awesome
<tseng|work> thanks
<tseng|work> minor cleanups can definately wait for things being building on all archs and working as expected imo
<tseng|work> we have a few months to sort the rest :)
<ogra> yep
<lamont> ogra: small correction: the buildd's use sbuild, not pbuilder, and launchpad will replace the whole thing
<ogra> lamont, ah, ok didnt know about sbuild...
<tseng|work> lamont: launchpad is going to replace the world!
<lamont> pretty much
<lamont> although as it currently sits, he hasn't redone sbuild yet, he just drives sbuild completely differently
<tseng|work> its all powered by the worlds largest crack pipe
<tseng|work> electricity will be irrelevant after launchpad 1.0
* tseng|work goes back into hiding
<herve> hi there!
<ivoks> hi
* goofrider is away: I'm busy
<ivoks> ok...
<ivoks> could someone just ack that this is ok or wrong?
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/libs/
<ivoks> it would be pointless if I continue and this isn't ok
<ivoks> ok, diff doesn't look good :)
<tseng|work> can you point us to what parts you changed?
<ogra> ivoks, we need the source package, not the binary
<tseng|work> i dont have a system handy for debdiff
<ivoks> ogra source is there as well
<tseng|work> sortof..
<ogra> ah, i see
<tseng|work> you missed the orig.tar.gz
<tseng|work> not nessecarily required, you can get it from archive or upstream
<ivoks> but diff is broken
<tseng|work> just alot faster if you include it
<ivoks> i will fix it
<ivoks> ogra here it is... but this diff looks strange to me..
<ogra> ivoks, you did only do the changes yo described, right ?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> debian/control only and .preinst and .prerm
<ivoks> .install :) not .pre* :)
<ogra> then you should mention the preXX scripts too..
<ogra> or thyt
<ivoks> i renamed them
<ogra> that
<ivoks> nothing else
<ogra> ah, ok
<jabra> awesome just my tool on sourceforge
<jabra> now I just need to fix up the .deb
<ivoks> so... will it be good? :) i took libgnome-vfsmm-2.6-1 (by doko) for example...
<ivoks> alejandro_ricove yes, there is, hit ctrl alt f1
<ivoks> sorry for that :)
<herve> ivoks, did you know debdiff ?
<ivoks> no
<herve> so you know what to do in the next minute ;-)
<jabra> probably needs to do man debdiff
<\sh> man debdiff for the awakening of a tired \s ;)
<ogra> ivoks, i'm not quite sure why the eps content changed in your package, the rest looks good
<ivoks> :)
<herve> jabra, I don't feel obliged to tell people "rtfm" each time :-)
<ivoks> ogra that funny to me too :(
<\sh> hey herve nice to see u
<herve> ogra, if the eps is generated for the binary package, I can understand it
* herve remembers headaches with dia export to eps
* herve gives the high five to \sh 
<ogra> ivoks, btw, thats a main package, not universe...
<ogra> herve, yep, that would be it, but anyway, its main and i guess seb128 will care for it anyway
<\sh> did somebody take care about kdelibs4 and kdebase? so i can start with the rest of kde-universe?
<ivoks> ogra :) thanx :)
<\sh> doko did a lot today
<ivoks> omg!... main
<herve> doko rules!
<ivoks> useless work :)
<herve> ivoks, certainly not!
<herve> speaking of dia by the way
<herve> I fixed it and ask ubuntu main developers for upload
<ivoks> ok
<herve> what do you fix, namely?
<ivoks> me?
<ivoks> what first comes under fingers :)
<\sh> hmmm..
<herve> so, who wants a package review?
<herve> I'm in a good mood ;-)
<ivoks> herve me :)
<ivoks> herve http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu
<ivoks> wifi-radar is name :)
<jabra> well I will after I finish up some stuff
<jabra> herve: I need write up a website for my tool
<herve> ivoks, this means you fixed all linda and lintian warnings and swear you think your package is ready?
<herve> jabra, just ping me when you're ready
<jabra> herve: ok sorry
<ivoks> herve there is no warnings.. it's a script :)
<herve> no need
<herve> ivoks, even about manpages? :-p
<ivoks> herve manpages are from upstream :)
<ivoks> and they are ok :)
<ivoks> i stoled them from CVS :)
<jabra> heh wow
<herve> usual packager job!
<ivoks> and leave out parts that aren't in this version
<jabra> heh nice
<ivoks> even changed /etc/conf.d/wifi-radar.conf to /etc/wifi-radar.conf
<jabra> anyone package nvu yet?
<herve> ivoks, you'll need to reword the synopsis (first line of description)
<herve> it should be read as "wifi-radar is a [...] "
<herve> so not repeating the name of the package
<ivoks> ah, ok
<ivoks> "Description: Python/PyGTK2  utility for managing WiFi profiles."?
<herve> yes
<herve> which brings me to the second point
<ivoks> if that's only mistake... :)
<herve> debian documentation is not keen on using technical terms when describing packages for the average user
<ivoks> ok...
<herve> knowing it's made in python and gtk it not really of concern for the average use
<herve> r
<ivoks> then utility :)
<herve> I would see "graphical utility for managing Wi-Fi profiles"
<ivoks> ok, that's it then
<herve> see the dash in Wi-Fi
<herve> it's the official name
<herve> and not period at end
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> but WiFi isn't the name of package
<herve> s/not/no
<ivoks> WiFi is common name
<herve> yes but Wi-Fi is the name of the technology :-)
<ivoks> ok
<jabra> ya I am def going to look over your package once the review is done
<herve> extra space in the description but nothing harmful
<ivoks> download that control file again :)
<herve> your comment in readme.debian is a 213 character line!
<herve> please cut at 78 or 80 lines :-)
<ivoks> hahahaha
<ivoks> ok
<herve> strange you're using cflags for a shell script ;-)
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> that's from .ex :)
<ivoks> and I don't use them..
<herve> so you see what I mean
<ivoks> they are just defined :)
<herve> strange
<herve> you're using debhelper features
<herve> but create directories by hand
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> how can I create them with debhelper?
<ivoks> aaaa
<ivoks> there should be file with dirs in it?
<ivoks> wifi-radar.dirs?
<herve> you're calling dh_installdirs
<herve> and yes you have a dirs
<herve> just dirs since you have a single binary package
<herve> hmm no
<herve> you're working in debian/<package name>
<herve> not debian/tmp
<herve> so wifi-radar.dirs
<herve> but dholbach told you to create them by hand
<ivoks> nope...
<herve> I'll touch a word tohim
<ivoks> I didn't know other way
<herve> ha ok, confusing with someone else
<ivoks> path should be relative?
<ivoks> like usr/sbin
<herve> yes
<herve> there are debhelper calls you don't use
<herve> but you could :-)
<herve> you'll have to choose between using debhelper facility
<herve> or preparing your package by hand
<ivoks> debhelper
<herve> you sure? :-)
<ivoks> couse there will be other, not so easy packages
<ivoks> ok, dirs are taken care of..
<herve> ogra, debhelper or hand made for new packagers? :-)
<ogra> debhelper
<ivoks> come on... i want to learn it right way
<ogra> but not cdbs
<herve> ivoks, that's my question, what is the right way for a beginner
<herve> ogra, ;-)
<ogra> cdbs for the masses :)
<herve> ivoks, so next step is using dh_installdocs
<herve> in wifi-radar.docs
<herve> you list the files to go into /usr/share/doc/wifi-radar
<ivoks> oh, nice....
<herve> and remember to add that directory to .dirs!
<ivoks> i did
<ivoks> well...
<\sh> what the heck
<herve> you don't need to use dh_installexamples
<ivoks> there sould be like:
<ivoks> TODO
<\sh> what is doko doing?
<ivoks> debian/README.debian?
<herve> it seems there's not dh for configuration
<herve> ivoks, yes
<herve> \sh, what's on your mind?
<herve> ivoks, and you could remove commented dh
<ivoks> herve how do i gzip changelog?
<ivoks> in build?
<herve> ivoks, it's automatic
<ivoks> ok
<herve> changelogs and doc and gzipped if they are over a certain size
<\sh> herve: I think he has no life ;) but anyways, taking kdelibs4
<ivoks> ah, ok
<herve> i'll probably find it in the debian policy
<\sh> or trying to at least..lets find out
<herve> \sh, fixing the overwriting file problem?
<\sh> trying a private evaluation build first, before i'm ruine the wiki page
<\sh> herve: cxxtrans
<herve> ouch!
<\sh> no risk no fun
<\sh> well..I should build ser also for hoary, so i can test it on my root server
<herve> ok, there really is something to check with configuration files
<ivoks> herve thanx... ok, i uploaded changed files
<herve> if they are not conffiles
<herve> already? :-)
<\sh> herve: where?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> take a look :)
<herve> \sh, speaking to ivoks !
<herve> ivoks, I'm looking at the policy for configuration files
<ivoks> one more thing i have to re-bookmark
<\sh> ivoks: what's the problem?
<ivoks> i lost my .mozilla dir
<ivoks> :(
<ivoks> brb
<ivoks> back
<herve> out of battery :(
<herve> ivoks, can you give me the url again?
<ivoks> www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu
<herve> debian/rules looks great!
<ivoks> thanks :)
<ivoks> but...?
<herve> :-)
<ivoks> :)
<herve> haven't compiled it yet
<ivoks> ah, ok :)
<ivoks> On a 56kb/sec standard dial-up modem connection, it will take you only 44.3 days to download!
<ivoks> dholbach
<herve> daniel!
<ivoks> hello
<dholbach> hey! :-)
<ogra> dholbach@mvo's inn ?
<herve> ivoks, I looked at the python source code and... *fear*
<dholbach> ogra: exactly
<ogra> heh
<\sh> hehee
<\sh> dortmund meets bochum at bermudadreieck
<ivoks> ah...
<herve> dholbach, drinking beers?
<dholbach> not yet :-)
<\sh> dortmund's lost, bochum drinks fiege pils, 0:1
<dholbach> wow... doko and chjm are doing the C++ transition alone
<ivoks> that's not true
<dholbach> \sh: mvo and i won't
<\sh> dholbach: doko is going mad ;)
<ivoks> i did one package :)
<\sh> dholbach: right, mvo is dortmunder as well :) just like me
<ivoks> borussia?
<dholbach> ivoks: you're well informed
<ivoks> dholbach they were my fav when they won champions leauge
<jabra> horrah it is up
<\sh> ivoks: long time ago ;)
<ivoks> \sh well true
* dholbach doesnt really care about soccer, but mvo does :-)
<ivoks> \sh even longer when my "first love" won that cup...
<\sh> it was the time, when I was living still in dortmund ;)
<ivoks> :))
<\sh> those fans were puking directly in front of my housedoor
<ivoks> borussia has great fans..
<ivoks> allways faithful
<ivoks> herve that bad? :)
<\sh> dholbach: he doesn't know the borsigplatz i think ;)
<herve> ivoks, compiling, then I'll try the application
<ivoks> ah, ok
<ogra> ivoks, surem they have no choice,they all bought borussia stocks
<ivoks> ogra :))
<\sh> ogra: hahaha true
<ivoks> \sh i don't... i'm not from germany
<\sh> ogra: and just like those fools buying telekom stocks they lost everything ;)
<ivoks> but i do remember those 3:0 in france :)
<jabra> germany is very beutiful
<ogra> \sh, yep
<\sh> miners doesn't know anything about stock markets ;)
<\sh> s/doesn't/don't/
<herve> ivoks, lintian warnings and an error....
<ivoks> '98. france... big germany against where-the-f**-is-croatia
<ivoks> herve ?
<herve> as I tell you!
<ivoks> how do i find that errors and warnings?
<herve> install linda and lintian :-)
<\sh> ivoks: lintian <deb package>
<ivoks> there should be one meta package debian-development
<herve> no
<\sh> copy past the warning/error without filename, and grep "<warning/error>" /usr/share/linitian/checks/*.desc
<herve> because there's not one way do to it
<ivoks> sounds like perl :)
<herve> it's written in perl ;-)
<\sh> badly
<ivoks> omg... binary without manpage
<ivoks> np
<\sh> hehehe...
<ivoks> i will remove that shell
<ivoks> it's useless
<\sh> making coffee
<ivoks>  python-script-but-no-python-dep? am I missing something? it depends on python-gtk2
<ivoks> isn't that enough?
<herve> \sh, one for me please
<herve> :-)
<ivoks> :)
<herve> it's a warning
<ivoks> that's an error
<herve> but I understand your logic, python-gtk2 brings python
<herve> I have the same
<ivoks> yes
<herve> argh
<ivoks> ok... everything is easy to fix
<herve> then add a python dep
<herve> I tried wifi-radar a bit
<ivoks> and?
<herve> how to say...
<ivoks> sucks? :)
<herve> it's young :-)
<ivoks> yes, it is...
<ivoks> next version will have new stuff
<herve> but I didn't find the radar :-)
<herve> and new bugs ;-)
<ivoks> heh
<ivoks> ok, here it is... without W and E :)
<herve> it's sad to say
<herve> but
<ivoks> but what?
<herve> I have no further critic to formulate then :-)
<ivoks> hahaha
<ivoks> ups... but I do :)
<ivoks> it creates /usr/bin
<ivoks> and nothing in it :)
<herve> ho
<herve> ho ho ho
<herve> so you mean you have a user application in usr/sbin?
<ivoks> it was..
<ivoks> that wifi-radar.sh
<ivoks> i removed it
<herve> ha ok
<herve> I remembered the opposite
<herve> so good, I would sign it
<ivoks> thanx :)
<ivoks> man, one script...
<ivoks> and i created package whole week :)
<ivoks> how sad is that? :)
<herve> no, it took *only* a week -:)
<ivoks> heh, you can put it that way too
<ivoks> well, I did added some new stuff, stuff that upstream doesn't have
<ivoks> man pages, .desktop entry and changed configuration
<herve> heh, you're a maintainer, you have duties :)-
<ivoks> well... i like this package
<ivoks> wifi-radar is much more faster and easier to use then network-admin
<herve> the gnome system tool?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> every time i have to reconfigure profile
<herve> and it fscks up my routes
<ivoks> that too
<ivoks> and lot of people allready d/w wifi-radar from my page
<herve> without counting the xxx times your reviewers downloaded it? :)-
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> and i learned a lot... finally can do some packaging
<jabra> getwifi is easier than wifi-radar
<ivoks> jabra i agree
<ivoks> but newbies want GUI
<jabra> ivoks: have you tried my tool?
<ivoks> nope
<jabra> give it a try and let me know
<jabra> the reason I developed getwifi
<jabra> I saw a need for a tool that would do this sort of thing. starting working on it in bash. Saw there were tools out there that did similar things
<jabra> howerver wireless should be able to be configured on a box without X
<ivoks> jabra i tried but it had broken deps :)
<jabra> thus the reason it is a shell script
<jabra> the package did
<ivoks> yes
<jabra> but I am working on those
<jabra> the .tar.gz is fine
<jabra> ya I missed wireless
<jabra> heh
<ivoks> ok, give me url
<jabra> ivoks: give it a try if you want I would love some feedback
<jabra> umm it is on sourceforge
<herve> jabra, I don't think users of boxes without X are looking for a easy to use graphical app, anyway :-)
<jabra> but the website isn't up yet
<ivoks> :)
<jabra> herve: right
<jabra> but they would want something to handle joingin wireless networks
<jabra> whihc is what getwifi does
<ivoks> http://getwifi.sourceforge.net/ - wow, classy :)
<herve> question: are bugs from packages not in ubuntu are supposed to be recorded in malone?
<jabra> I am uploading it
<herve> or ubuntu list of bugs at least
<jabra> ivoks: I am writting that page now
<jabra> check the sourceforge site and download section
<ivoks> jabra ok, dcc source to me
<herve> jabra, my point is that they configure a server once for all, so they use a proper setup once for all
<jabra> herve: ok for review they will be for now http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra/build/ubuntu.html
<jabra> but that is until I finish up this initial work
<jabra> ivoks: ok
<herve> jabra, I'm afraid you'll have to remind me the url each time I have to review it :)-
<jamessan|work> jabra: you're currently going to NU?
<jabra> yea
<jamessan|work> nice. I graduated from there last year
<jabra> nice
<jabra> ya I am currently a sophomore
<jabra> admin of the linux project
<jabra> ivoks: http://osdn.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/getwifi/getwifi-0.1.4.tar.gz
<jamessan|work> cool beans
<jabra> ya
<ivoks> hm
<jabra> herve: don't need to review it yet
<ivoks> everything passed and nothing happend
<jamessan|work> small world and all that jazz  :)
<jabra> herve: I have changes I need to make first I don't want you to waste time until things are inplace
<ivoks> ah.. config
<jabra> ya
<herve> good thing :-)
<jabra> heh
<jabra> it checks for deps
<ivoks> jabra advice: call config getwifi.conf, not config
<jabra> ok
<jabra> done
<jabra> that makes sense
<herve> \sh, you remember tagtool?
<jamessan|work> ooh, pork patches
* jamessan|work snoops around on jabra's website
<ivoks> jabra i can't test it now, i'm allready on wifi online
<jabra> jamessan|work: ya some of those patches are down
<jabra> since my server isn't up yet
<jabra> jamessan|work: I need to reinstall it tonight or tomorrow
<herve> whoo!
<schweeb> yay
<jabra> I will have time since I just broke up with my gf of 3.5 years
<ivoks> how fine day i had...
* schweeb gains IRC from teh workage
<ivoks> i did some work on cxx transition (mostly useless) and my first package is signed :)
<jamessan|work> jabra: do you have a list of things you plan on adding? I may be interested in helping (if I have time)
<\sh> ok...kdelibs4 needs to be renamed
<ivoks> kdelibs4-c2?
<herve> \sh, do you remember about tagtool?
<jabra> jamessan|work: well I had a list then I finsiedh almost all of it
<herve> \sh, kdelibs4-crack?
<\sh> herve: yes
<jabra> jamessan|work: I will post something on the site http://getwifi.sourceforge.net tonight
<\sh> i saw the error
<\sh> and bug report
<jamessan|work> cool
<jabra> jamessan|work: I plan on adding wpa and reworking the handling of args to use getopt
<herve> \sh, yes what? :-) did you test tagtool a bit?
<jabra> jamessan|work: I would definalty appreciate help
<\sh> herve: i started it :) i don't know what to do with it in the end,...never mind, i'll fix it
<jamessan|work> jabra: I was referring to pork-veggie, but getwifi may be of interest, too.  I'll take a look when I get back from NY on Sunday
<jabra> jamessan|work: I acutally got the idea from colin a sys admin at neu. WHo is the windows admin. He said you know linux does have a good wireless tool to join networks in precedence
<\sh> at least, i only changed the .desktop ;)
<jabra> jamessan|work: awesome
<jabra> jamessan|work: ya the pork guy isn't that great. He doesn't document his code
<jamessan|work> I'd have to get a linux on my laptop first, though
<jamessan|work> jabra: heh, yeah, I noticed that last time I took a look
<jabra> jamessan|work: and he wouldn't accept patches with comments
<herve> \sh, I am currently, just wondering for how long the package was crap
<jamessan|work> oh
<jamessan|work> weird
<jabra> jamessan|work: that is why my friend and I sorta gave up on pork
<jabra> ya he said it bloted the code or something
<\sh> herve: before i touched it i guess
<\sh> herve: if it ever worked
<herve> \sh, the debian package works perfectly
<jabra> I dunno he is useless to have code decently complex and no docs trying to figure out all the changes he makes etc makes me wanta brach it or something
<\sh> the error messages are telling me something else
<herve> gtk/glade api breake?
<jabra> ok I shut up now
<herve> s/breake/breakage
<ivoks> herve is it ok to build a package from CVS?
<jamessan|work> jabra: might not be a bad idea if enough patches are made.  anyway, I'm heading off for the weekend.  I'll let talk to you later
<herve> ivoks, if you use the appropriate version scheme and don't run your users into trouble, yes
<ivoks> ok
<\sh> herve: let me have a look at the source...
<jabra> jamessan|work: awesome
<\sh> herve: looks like
<\sh> hoary works wine
<\sh> hmm fine
<jabra> mmmmm wine
<ivoks> any ideas what could be done with firefox?
<ivoks> firefox raises one question... if upstream releases only-security-fix release, should we backport diff or just implement new release?
<\sh> herve: i will rebuild it
<ivoks> in the end, it is the same... but in firefox example, we see how that could be a problem
<\sh> ivoks: the right thing is backport
<ivoks> \sh yeah, but look at firefox now
<\sh> the best thing is new release without breaking anything else
<\sh> ivoks: i know
<ivoks> and i lost my .mozilla dir
<ivoks> and now, i can't get extensions :)
<\sh> ivoks: but this is a problem from our side...they put everything in from 1.0.3 etc. and patched it against 1.0.2
<\sh> take the source, change the version in the firefox source to 1.0.4 or 1.0.3 and it's fine
<ivoks> \sh i know
<ivoks> \sh as i said... we all run firefox 1.0.4, just users don't know that
<ivoks> neither does firefox :)
<\sh> i run 1.0.2 :)
<\sh> i didn't update ;)
<\sh> herve: breakage of glade/gtk2 stuff...
<\sh> herve: i think in the support libs for gtk2 for the default dialogs etc.
<spacey> will that firefox gnome theme be back?
<\sh> and in glade itself :(
<ivoks> spacey what theme?
<spacey> well at one point in hoary it had gnome icons and stuff
* spacey liked it
<ivoks> spacey sudo apt-get install mozilla-firefox-gnome-support
<spacey> i already have that package
<ivoks> well... that's the "theme"
<spacey> hm
<ivoks> omg.. flying ants :)
<herve> \sh, so auto* regenerating is not eought?
<herve> enough
<ivoks> well... bye guys
<herve> bye
<ivoks> enough for me today...
<ivoks> thanks herve
<ivoks> thanks ogra
<ivoks> thanks \sh
<ivoks> and dholbach, ofcourse :)
<herve> spacey, didn't even noticed it disappeared!
<spacey> :)
<\sh> herve: lets see...first of all, lets check if theres a pitfall between libglade2 gcc4 and glade_xml_signal_autoconnect
<herve> I must rely on your judgement here
<\sh> herve: well...a shot in the dark for me
<\sh> i don't know more then you :)
<\sh> wow
<herve> argh
<\sh> after running autogen.sh it throws errors
<herve> I just discovered "glade" is the old gtk1.2 app
<\sh> can't find gtk.h
<\sh> it's using libglade2
<herve> you have the build-dep?
<\sh> yep
<dholbach> which package of ivoks got signed?
<herve> did someone say we have firefox 1.0.4 without knowing it?
<\sh> herve: yes
<herve> because mozilla.org won't let me using updates.mozilla.org...
<herve> dholbach, wifi-radar
<\sh> thats the thing
<\sh> herve: backported all patches between 1.0.2 and 1.0.4 but with 1.0.2 version string in it
<\sh> herve: not only the security related patches
<dholbach> hrm, its not on the wiki page, is it?
<herve> backporting the whole diff of changes? why not a new release then? :-)
<dholbach> the comment
<herve> dholbach, just a verbal "would"
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> :-)
<herve> he will alter it again
<herve> so he would break my signature :-)
* dholbach nods
<\sh> *grmpf*
<\sh> i don't get it
<herve> time for chocolate!
<\sh> herve: do me a favour?
<herve> \sh, sure
<\sh> herve: u have the source of tagtool...all build deps etc.
<\sh> herve: make -f debian/rules clean (inside the sourcedir)
<herve> yep
<herve> I use fakeroot ./debian/rules :-)
<\sh> then "dpatch-edit-patch 02-trial.dpatch 01-tagtool.desktop"
<\sh> and "./autogen.sh" after that
<\sh> ctrl+d  and do a debuild
<\sh> I'm really concerned about my chroot
<herve> they are talking about moms in #u-d
<herve> seems so strange when you just arrived :-)
<herve> \sh, same crap
<\sh> herve: compiled?
<\sh> i get errors
<\sh> ah adjust the 00list ;) in patches
<herve> compiled
<herve> but same behaviour
<herve> erm
<herve> okay
<herve> lots of gtk functions errors
<\sh> yepp
<\sh> gtk.h not found
<\sh> gdkbla.h not found
<\sh> ok.my chroot is ok
<\sh> but why is it compiling without autogen ;)
<herve> header files renamed between gnome 2.8 and 2.10?
<herve> or their equivalent gtk version
<\sh> no configure should complain first
<herve> this reminds me the crap of gcompris
<herve> dholbach, do you remember? :-)
<herve> well, enough of packaging for tonight
<herve> let's rest
<\sh> night herve :) and thx :)
<\sh> I'll go to bed as well...so I'm relaxed for today :)
<herve> I stay
<herve> just put my brain on idle
<\sh> i can't anymore...tried to stay awake but this won't work...tomorrow is a new day...food and drinks shopping, hacking :)
<\sh> night all
<herve> nighty night!
<herve> hi mr rimbert :-)
<mrimbert> Hi Herve :)
<tritium> herve: how are you doing?
<herve> fine!
<herve> I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel my project at work is
<herve> and being in good shapre
<herve> shape
* lamont_r tries to remember who was going to look into auto-bunzip2'ing logfiles in ffox
<dholbach> herve: yes :-)
<dholbach> lamont_r: \sh
<lamont_r> ah, ok
<jabra> dholbach: greetings
<dholbach> hi jabra
<herve> \sh... which just left :-)
<tritium> herve, that's great!  Okay, I've got to go.  See you guys around :)
<herve> ++
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:herve] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | => http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList <= | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<herve> good, a DD wanting to help the c++ transition :-)
<jabra> talk to you guys later
<jabra> I will have getwifi ready sometime this weekend
<jabra> herve: I will let you know
* jabra wonders off 
<herve> jabra,
<herve> remember
<herve> if you ask me, you really think your package is clean and ready
<jabra> right
<jabra> that is why I will wait cause dholbach requests changes and I wanta make those first
<jabra> /s/requests/requested
<herve> and given that I'm a nightmare compared to dholbach's reviews ;-)
<jabra> k, I will let you know when I have something for you
<herve> sure
<herve> you know where to find me :-)
<jabra> on the interweb?
<herve> the world is small!
<tseng|work> bye
<herve> bye tseng
<ivoks> let's do some packaging :)
<herve> malone task?
<ivoks> malone? no cxx transition
<herve> good too
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> this time, i will not repackage package from main :)
<herve> ;-)
<herve> I'll be eager to sponsor your uploads
<herve> see you until then
<herve> night all
<jabra> ivoks: did you try getwifi?
<ivoks> no :)
<ivoks> tomorrow, ok?
<jabra> that's cool send me an email with your thoughts
<jabra> getwifi.sourceforge.net
<ivoks> sure
<ivoks> i'm tierd... going to bed
<ivoks> bye
<tseng> ogra: ping
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-22
<tseng> ok so beagle still works after rebuild
<tseng> rock
<ogra> tseng, :)        great
<crimsun> I'll be scarce for the next week or so as I get reacquainted, see y'all on the flip side
<tseng> hi ogra
<ogra> tseng, hey (i'm drunk, had a party at the firefighters in my 400 ppl vilage)
<ogra> +l
<ogra> tseng, sup ?
<tseng> buh
<ogra> heh
<tseng> the dog is being a pain
<tseng> like only dogs can
<ogra> mine isnt :=)
<tseng> this one is 16 months
<tseng> he thinks he is a puppy
<ogra> oh, mine is nearly 15 years
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> he is mellow
<ogra> mine cant even move hie rear legssometimes :/
<ogra> his even
<ogra> but dogs are greast :)
<ogra> -s
<ogra> damned
<tseng> not when they pee all over the house
<tseng> and jump on your hot neighbor
<ogra> bah, they learn it eventually
<ogra> at least the peeing
<tseng> he un-learned
<ogra> and if your hot neighbor likes dogs, it could be an advantage ;)
<dahane> my neighbour is not hot and i have no dog, so no advantage at all :)
<tseng> do we have an official statement about backports?
<tseng> this guy who does the beagle wiki page just cant get the clue
<ogra> the are B A D !
<tseng> well, yes
<tseng> i told him twice now they are done with low standards, and detract from testing and development of our real release cycle
<ogra> yep
<tseng> so today he asks me
<tseng> why doesnt canonical sponsor backports.ubuntuforums
<ogra> gah
<ogra> i remember one of the backporters tried to become a motu once, he left after a week
<ogra> havent seen him since then
<tseng> <@BenM> tseng, if I put up a tarball, can you just package that
<tseng> < tseng> BenM: I can
<tseng> <@BenM> because i can do that *right now*
<tseng> gecko#2 :D
<ogra> yeah
<crimsun> oh no, not the 'b' word
<tseng> also svn up on pkg-mono
<tseng> see if we have anything to merge
<tseng> (we need bazaar on alioth so i get a local branch!!!)
<JanC> hm, libgecko-cil in breezy depends on mozilla-browser, instead of on mozilla-firefox in hoary ?
<tseng>  /topic please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks
<JanC> ah, okay  :)
<tseng> thanks :)
<JanC> I don't complain btw, was just a question :)
<crimsun> JanC: (or just send a unified diff of debian/control to tseng and ogra ;)
<tseng> heh
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ogra] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | => http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList <= | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks
<ogra> ;)
<tseng> heh
<tseng> JanC: np, just I get it several times a day and I am very easily frustrated
<ogra> tseng, but we should in any case move everything to main on monday....
<tseng> yes
<tseng> and it should be in pretty good shape
<tseng> are you ready for me to unleash hell?
<tseng> i have a ton of -pre stuff just handed down from upstream
<ogra> but it also will require that we get upload rights to main for you
<tseng> the whole monodevelop stack from known-working svn
<ogra> which is bad, since mdz is on holiday
<ogra> wow
<tseng> hm can it wait one week then?
<tseng> it shouldnt go to main w/o mdz either
<ogra> hmm
<tseng> even though he tentatively approved it at udu..
<ogra> i think its ok for main...
<tseng> well he approved the transition plan so it wouldnt be totally nuts to move it over
<crimsun> just funnel everything through ogra until mdz returns
<ogra> but to keep your upload rights for now, we should only pull mono and probably gtk-sharp in... so you can work on the apps
<tseng> hm yes gtk-sharp1
<tseng> that i will be happy not to touch once its build w/ working monodis
<tseng> lets do it like that :)
<ogra> yep
<tseng> ogra is wise
<ogra> heh
<ogra> nope, drunk... but that might be the same :)
* Burgundavia hugs tseng for great mono love
<ogra> yeah
<tseng> ok so ill do gtk-sharp1 now
<ogra> ok
<tseng> and then go to town on the svn crack
<ogra> yay
<tseng> :D
<tseng> mm mono in main will let us fix dbus too
<ogra> yep
<ogra> thats the idea
<ajmitch_> hi
<zerokarmaleft> ogra, tseng, you guys rock fyi
* ajmitch_ agrees
* ajmitch_ wants to be a tseng/ogra fanboy :)
<tseng> hehe
<tseng> ill be your fanboy
<zerokarmaleft> not a fanboy...just trying to apologize for what amounted to bitching about mono deps
<tseng> heh its cool
<tseng> im a grumpy bastard
<ogra> ajmitch_, yeah, join room 205, in fact its tseg who does the work, i only do cleanups like fixing broken manpages of miguel d icasa ;)
<zerokarmaleft> i can imagine since you're packaging mono
<ogra> s/of/from
<tseng> heh meebey did the groundwork
<tseng> i am standing on his shoulders
<tseng> "go team"
<ogra> and i'm on yours tseng  :)
<tseng> yes, we all rock so hard
<ogra> yeah
<tseng> (and its still busted :)
<tseng> but not for long
<tseng> Subject: gtk-sharp_1.0.8-1ubuntu4_source.changes ACCEPTED
<tseng> take that crappy deps
<ogra> yeah
<tseng> that will let at least f-spot work
<ogra> yipiee
<tseng> just think of all the brain space i have wasted remembering the mono dependency tree
<ogra> yep, i can imagine ;)
<tseng> tomboy i think is still building with dbus
<tseng> for its plugin system
<tseng> and beagle
<tseng> md and muine are gtk#2
<tseng> oh yeah.. bzipped buildLogs
<ogra> and muine is fixed now ?
<tseng> muine needs dbus
<tseng> and gtk#2
<ogra> i'm building a cgi script for the bz2 logs
<tseng> it works for me, just not the rest of you
<tseng> heh.
<tseng> i cant live w/o muine
<ogra> that also reloads the buildlogs page every 10 min
<tseng> hm awesome
* ajmitch_ just grabs build logs with wget & looks at them with bzless :)
<tseng> will it have search :P
<ogra> i could, since i mostly use streamtuner
<ogra> hmm, search ? ... good idea
<tseng> yeah, just type in gtk-sharp and get both hits
* ajmitch_ is stunned at how many packages doko has claimed on CxxLibraryList
<ogra> yep
<tseng> that would be super useful
<ogra> ok, i'll do a little javascript magic
<ajmitch_> I feel obsolete now that tseng & ogra are doing all the mono stuff :)
<ogra> ajmitch_, just grab something
* ajmitch_ has to know what to grab & fix first
<tseng> cxx!
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch_> yeah, I've got to restart X before I can use firefox much :)
<ajmitch_> X seems to want to take 600MB or so of ram
<ogra> bah
<tseng> hm the memory report for X in top or so is "wrong"
<ajmitch_> makes me want to use my laptop instead
<tseng> it includes mmapped memory for your gfx card and stuff
<ajmitch_> tseng: I don't think it's wrong by a lot..
<tseng> who made the post.. was it branden?
<ajmitch_> the card is only 32MB, compared to the 600MB top reports :)
<ajmitch_> post?
<tseng> a post on the mailing list about what all is include in the X memory reported
<tseng> i found it very informative
<ajmitch_> no idea
<ajmitch_> either way it causes my box to be very slow
* ajmitch_ feels like reverting to xfree86
<minghua> Hi, I have a question about the upcoming c++ library transition
<ajmitch_> ok
<minghua> I am the Debian maintainer of package scim
<minghua> scim depends on libstdc++ (and only libstdc++ as c++ dependence)
<minghua> but I didn't split a separate package for the shared library
<minghua> I've voluteered to work on scim and related package for this transition
<ogra> great
<ogra> :)
<minghua> my question is: can I change the structure of the package and make a separate shared library package
<minghua> basically I don't want to rename the binary package scim to scimc2
<minghua> that's going to be ugly
<ogra> will you do that in debian too if the transition happens there ?
<ajmitch_> the transition will probably happen in debian within 2 months
<ajmitch_> (we hope)
<minghua> and it's going to confuse users since the scim package contains /usr/bin/scim binary as well
<minghua> ajmitch_: that's actually another thing I want to talk about
* ajmitch_ tags a few packages on the c++ transition list as his..
* ogra agrees about the uglyness
<minghua> the upstream released a new version months ago
<minghua> but I dare not (could not) get it into sarge because of SONAME change
<minghua> I have been working on the new version these days
<minghua> and I am having a reasonable package that can be uploaded to experimental
<minghua> or maybe after one or two days' work
<ogra> great, then we can sync it :)
<minghua> I am going to have a new version in good shape
<ogra> yay
<minghua> so does the MOTUs think it would be better to wait for the new versions instead of working on transition of old packages?
<minghua> the new version is going to have a separate library package
<ajmitch_> we don't want to repeat work, since that work will need to be merged when the new version is uplaoded
<ajmitch_> so a new version is preferable
<minghua> so this kind of madness is not going to happen again
<ajmitch_> imho :)
<minghua> ajmitch_: but the thing is, I can only push the new version into sid after sarge is released
<ajmitch_> but you can push into experimental
<minghua> so are MOTUs okay to rsync with experimental?
<ajmitch_> sure
<ogra> experimental is just fine
<tseng> experimental gets automerged actually
<ajmitch_> tseng: it does already?
<tseng> yes?
<ajmitch_> I didn't think elmo had turned that on
<ajmitch_> it was suggested at UDU
<tseng> dont you see the big mom merge every few days?
<ogra> with a little selection by elmo i guess
<tseng> or is that all elmo super crack-fu
<ajmitch_> yes, I thought that was sid?
<minghua> okay, then does it make sense if I submit a bug describing all these
<tseng> oh sorry
<tseng> i was thinking sid the whole time
<minghua> and hold the transition for some time, until the new version in experimental is uploaded?
<ajmitch_> packages still fly into sid at a horrendous rate
<ajmitch_> ok
<ogra> minghua, sounds good
* ajmitch_ shoudl get onto debian BTS patch filing
<minghua> I am going to work on other scim-related packages to make sure they build against the new API
<minghua> ABI, sorry
<minghua> the API isn't changed
<ogra> great
<minghua> (hopefully, at least the upstream authors claim so)
<minghua> Great, thanks guys
<ogra> yeah, youre welcome :)
<ajmitch_> minghua: good to have some more DDs who care about ubuntu as well :)
<minghua> oh by the way, if I understand correctly, the scim in breezy will continue to work, since it only depends on libstdc++5
<minghua> right?
<minghua> ajmitch_: actually I am not DD yet  :-P
<ajmitch_> it should be ok, afaik
<ajmitch_> aha :)
<minghua> I am planning to apply for NM very soon though
<ajmitch_> good luck :)
<ajmitch_> it took me awhile to do NM
<minghua> ajmitch_: and actually that's why Ubuntu attracts me
<ajmitch_> so far I've only ascended the ubuntu scale to MOTU level ;)
* tseng is scared to pass judgement for Main
<tseng> im sloppy
<minghua> ah ha, so MOM stands for the syncnizer that pulls packages from debian?
<ajmitch_> yep
<tseng> yes, merge o matic
<tseng> it tries to merge it with the ubuntu version
<ajmitch_> tseng: yeah, I'm a bit that way when doing mass fixes or in a rush
<tseng> and dumps it in
<tseng> or gives it back to the maintainer to merge by hand
<minghua> wow, could never guess that by myself
<tseng> its on the wiki somewhere
<tseng> OngoingMerge perhaps
<ajmitch_> it doesn't actually dump in changes
<ajmitch_> all MoM merges have to be approved
<tseng> well it syncs stuff that doesnt conflict with an ubuntu version
<ajmitch_> since a clean merge doesn't mean it's correct (as I've found)
<ajmitch_> eg both debian & ubuntu adding the same dpatch with a different name, causes a nice clean merge but build failures
<ajmitch_> yay, 1 c++ library almost done
* minghua looks around his new breezy chroot
<minghua> so build-essential in breezy is not updated yet?
<ajmitch_> npoe, it will be next week
<minghua> or is my mirror slow?
<ajmitch_> doko is putting in g++ 4.0 by default on monday
<minghua> Hmm, then does installing g++-4.0 manually work?
<ajmitch_> yes, but it won't be default
<minghua> or should I install doko's gcc package?
<ajmitch_> since /usr/bin/g++ is a symlink to g++-3.3 still
<ajmitch_> install doko's packages, they just update the defaults
<minghua> the one in people.ubuntu.com/~doko I mean
* ajmitch_ waits patiently for compilation
<minghua> okay, will do that
<minghua> maybe I can put my hands on some one else's package first :-)
<ajmitch_> Setting up libcommoncpp2-1.0-0c2 (1.0.13-5ubuntu1) ...
<ajmitch_> great, it worked..
<ajmitch_> looks like I might be able to do 5/day after all ;)
<ajmitch_> bbl
<whiprush> hey tseng, is your beagle working?
<tseng> of course it is
<whiprush> you have inotify turned on?
<tseng> no
<whiprush> hrm.
<tseng> but im meaning to try it
<tseng> with 2.6.12
<minghua> Hmm, one more question about c++ transition:  The wiki says we should file bug in bugzilla even for universe packages
<minghua> but the package list doesn't contain universe package names, so should I just put UNKNOWN there?  Or fill in the package name by hand?
<minghua> and should I assign it to anyone? myself?
* ajmitch_ throws another set of packages on the to-upload pile
<ajmitch_> Unfrgiven: what's up?
<whiprush> hey Unfrgiven, ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> whiprush!
<ajmitch_> dude
<whiprush> sup
<ajmitch_> c++ transitioning, of course
<whiprush> heh
<whiprush> how goes the fight?
<ajmitch_> just started that one today
<whiprush> is there a list?
<ajmitch_> wiki.ubuntu.com/CxxLibraryList
<whiprush> _ouch_
<ajmitch_> heh ;)
<ajmitch_> only a week or so of work ;)
<whiprush> if your dholbach maybe. :p
<ajmitch_> I've done 4 so far today, just about to build #5
<ajmitch_> it doesn't take long to do most of them
<whiprush> hmmm, maybe we can do a party here for em.
<whiprush> know if metallikop did one yet?
<ajmitch_> no idea
<whiprush> k, I'll snag him this weekend then
<ajmitch_> we're not uploading until next week
<whiprush> okey
* ajmitch_ thinks it best to do all this in the chroot instead :)
<ajmitch_> flatmate using all the bandwidth..
<ivoks> 'morning
<ajmitch_> hi ivoks
<ajmitch_> wb ogra & susus  :)
<ivoks> ajmitch_ dreamless man :)
<ajmitch_> hmm?
<ajmitch_> only 6pm here..
* ajmitch_ is in NZ, remember ;)
<ivoks> i know, but i'm sure u will be up at least till 3AM
<ajmitch_> got to fill my quotas ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> loren one year
<ivoks> doh :)
<ivoks> E: Broken packages
<ajmitch_> if it's breezy, it's expected :)
<ajmitch_> hey metallikop
<metallikop> hey ajmitch
<metallikop> long time no see
<ajmitch_> yeah, what have you been up to?
* ajmitch_ waits patiently for packages to build
<ivoks> ajmitch_ i have one build
<ivoks> in cxx transition
<ivoks> who will upload it?
<ajmitch_> ivoks: whoever reviews it for you
<minghua> ivoks: yeah, I have the same question
<ajmitch_> did you just rebuild a library?
<ivoks> ajmitch_ will you do it? :)
<ivoks> yes
<ajmitch_> ivoks: we're not uploading yet
<minghua> I know we are supposed to wait until tuesday
<ajmitch_> did you change the names, add in the appropriate entries?
<ivoks> yes
<ajmitch_> we must wait until tuesday
<ivoks> ok
<ajmitch_> ivoks: and did you write your name on the wiki list? :)
<ivoks> ajmitch_ yes
<ivoks> check out, last package :)
<ajmitch_> if we upload before tuesday, we get a binary named like it has been done, compiled with g++ 3.3
<ivoks> libzipios++0
<ivoks> ah, ok
<ajmitch_> which is a *bad thing* :)
<ivoks> i know
<ajmitch_> stick it on a review list
<ajmitch_> otherwise I can guarantee I'll forget it ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i did couple of apps and only this lib
<ivoks> i was told not to do apps yet
<ajmitch_> yeah, it's not time for apps
<minghua> ajmitch_: do we need to put the source package somewhere, or only the patch in bugzilla will work?
<ajmitch_> yay, this 1 src package will take care of 12 entries on the list ;)
<ajmitch_> minghua: put the package up for review somewhere
<ajmitch_> it's the easiest way, we find
<ajmitch_> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToReview
* ajmitch_ will add a CXXTransition section on that page
<minghua> ajmitch_: I see, thanks, will upload later
<minghua> I finished all the packaging though
<ajmitch_> that's good
<ajmitch_> put it on the list, tagged as a gcc 4 transition like ivoks did :)
<ivoks> ok... server is down...
<ivoks> i just renamed it :)
<ivoks> CXX transition :)
<ajmitch_> that's fine
* ajmitch_ mutters dark & ominous things about clanlib build failure
* ajmitch_ edits debian/rules
<minghua> ajmitch_: I also had some questions about how to file the bug
<metallikop> ajmitch_: not much.  lots of work in the past month
<minghua> <minghua> Hmm, one more question about c++ transition:  The wiki says we should file bug in bugzilla even for universe packages
<metallikop> got a new job so I haven't been that active at all.
<minghua> <minghua> but the package list doesn't contain universe package names, so should I just put UNKNOWN there?  Or fill in the package name by hand?
<minghua> <minghua> and should I assign it to anyone? myself?
<metallikop> But, i should be back and able to help out full time once again.
<ivoks> metallikop :)))
<minghua> can anybody answer this?
<ajmitch_> minghua: I don't know why it suggests that for universe, as we are using malone as our bugtracker ( http://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone )
<minghua> then I can add them to the wiki :-)
<ajmitch_> yes, add to the wiki
<metallikop> how've you been ajmitch_ ?
<ajmitch_> we'll care about bugs later :)
<ajmitch_> metallikop: very busy
<ajmitch_> UDU was fun though
<metallikop> so i hear
<metallikop> jorge has lots of pictures
<minghua> ajmitch_: but what to add? ``the MOTUs don't agree though, they think the bugs for universe should be filed in malone''?
<minghua> :-P
<metallikop> i have a lot of catching up to do :)
<ajmitch_> minghua: I haven't been told by the Powers That Be what we do for that :P
<ajmitch_> so I put off the bug filing for now
<ajmitch_> doko can tell me off later ;)
<minghua> ajmitch_: okay, I'll leave that for you and The Power, then :-)
<ivoks> hm.. i filled it in malone
<minghua> I'll add something saying just file against UNKNOWN for now, since doko did that for a multiverse package
<minghua> ajmitch_: does that sound good to you?
<ajmitch_> minghua: ok
<ivoks> bye
<ajmitch_> bye ivoks
* bur[n] er has a question about releasing a .deb... would you not recommend using checkinstall?  or is it not that simple?
<bur[n] er> ooh... horribly passive questions...
<Treenaks> checkinstall?
<Treenaks> what's that?
<ivoks> one question
<ivoks> how do i atuomagically download -devs for compiling package?
<Treenaks> ivoks: you don't?
<Treenaks> ivoks: apt-get build-dep somepackage ?
<Treenaks> ivoks: otherwise you'll have to do it yourself
<ivoks> that's it
<Treenaks> ANOTHER new mono??
<Burgundavia> bah
<jabra> damn you guys are all up this late?
<ivoks> it's 9
<ivoks> AM
<jabra> it is 3 am
<Burgundavia> gnome-network <-- is there a reason this wasn't built for hoary and isn't being built for breezy?
<Burgundavia> I haven't seen a ftbfs
<jabra> aight guys later
* jabra -> bed
<ivoks> bye
<ivoks> goofrider nautilus --no-desktop
<ivoks> damn...
<bur[n] er> checkinstall makes a .deb for you...
<bur[n] er> ./configure; make; checkinstall
<ivoks> :))
<bur[n] er> pick .deb and bam :)
* bur[n] er was hoping to make a quick fluxbox package ;)
<tritium> Hi aj
<aj> hola
<aj> so, are there universe maintainers separate to MOTUs?
<tritium> No, I don't believe so.
<ivoks> man, this tulip compiles for hours :)
<aj> so are there only around 16 MOTUs, as per http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU ?
<tritium> aj, that sounds about right, with many others working towards ubuntu membership/motuness
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> aj a lot of other compile packages
<aj> yeah, about twice that (35?) on MaintainerCandidates
<ivoks> this 16 guys then reviw those packages
<ivoks> and upload them
<ajmitch_> hello aj
<tritium> aj, I don't think those wiki pages get updated frequently enought to be accurate
<aj> ivoks: ah, that makes more sense
<tritium> By the way, it's great to have you visit us, aj :)
<aj> tritium: sure, indicative's more what i'm interested in
<ajmitch_> aj: I think the numbers are fairly accurate as to how many universe maintainers there are :)
<tritium> aj, it should give you a rough order of magnitude
<ivoks> there is Big Force behind MOTU :)
<ivoks> look at CXX transition... only fools can do such task.. only fools and MOTU :)
<ivoks> don't get me worng guys...
<ivoks> ah... typo again
* ajmitch_ sets out with a lynch mob after ivoks 
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch_> aj: thinking of joining us? :)
<aj> ajmitch_: just lurking :) i have other plots to play with first anyway :)
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch_> yeah, I guess you'll be fairly busy with sarge
<ajmitch_> a pity we didn't see you at UDU
<aj> ha, no way! vorlon and aba and kamion and djpig can worry about that
<ajmitch_> heh
<aj> ajmitch_: i was there for a couple of days, sat in on some entertaining bofs
<ajmitch_> ah, I must have missed you
<aj> ajmitch_: like the community council / aieee nautilus one :)
* ajmitch_ will have to try & get back to .au sometime soon 
<tritium> aj, are you using ubuntu these days?
<aj> tritium: various; OS X on my laptop 'til i get a usb/wireless thing with an Ubuntu VM; warty or sarge/warty on a couple of desktops; sarge and warty on some servers
* ajmitch_ is too used to being called aj around here as well
<aj> bah, sarge and woody on some servers
<aj> ajmitch_: muahahahaha
<tritium> aj, nice :)
<aj> the OS X gui is so nice, pity the filesystem sucks so much
<tritium> My wife's new G5 arrived just today.  I'm playing around with OS X for the first time tonight.
<ivoks> heh, i had too much time with osx
<ivoks> i don't like it :(
<tritium> I'm going to give it some time before I judge it
<aj> Camino + Expose are nice; Thunderbird's pretty good as MUAs go
<aj> and it has bash, ssh, terminals, and looks pretty
<ivoks> and no /etc/passwd :)
<aj> well, technically there's an /etc/passwd
<tritium> Spotlight seems to be like beagle, and Dashboard reminds me of gdesklets
<ivoks> aj, technically
<ivoks> tritium open terminal, run top in it
<ivoks> tritium then start dashboard
<ivoks> :))
<tritium> ivoks, yeah, I can imagine...
<ivoks> i didn't see ap that could swallow so much proc without doing anything :)
<tritium> not that different from gdesklets, then
<ivoks> tritium we are talking about 80% :)
<ivoks> even gdesklets don't consume so much
<tritium> wow
<aj> oh, and Cmd-C/Cmd-V to copy and paste have really grown on me too
<ivoks> tiger has one good thing new - KPI
<ivoks> true
<ivoks> shoutcuts are great on osx
<ivoks> alt-f4 is... no comment, but win-q is much better
<ivoks> or cmd-q :)
<aj> cmd-tab, cmd-n, cmd-l, cmd-v # to switch to web browser, open a new window, go to the location bar, and paste a url isn't bad
<aj> $ open http://foo/bar # is nice too
<ivoks> aj that with cmd you can do in gnome too :)
<aj> but, mmm, expose'
<aj> ivoks: cmd-tab goes through apps, not windows -- so you don't have to worry about your n xterms to get to the web browser; and you can leave the web browser running even when it's got no windows open. but yeah
<Lathiat> aj: hmm that couldbe a usefull feature
<Lathiat> so are you the macosx release manager yet?
<ivoks> aj i know :) and i like that
<ivoks> aj i'm working in comp. that is based arround mac's
<ivoks> aj i know all the good and all the bad stuf...
<ivoks> aj enough is to say, that we are using only linux (sarge mostly) for servers :)
<aj> ivoks: heh
<ivoks> osx has broken cups
<ivoks> broken samba
<ivoks> ok, not broken, but partialy implented :)
<aj> ugh, HP's printer/scanner software for my printer is so horrible
<aj> and my camera software is too
<aj> hrm, speaking of which, i should see if there's a driver for my camera yet for linux
<ivoks> what camera?
<tritium> ivoks, have you tried oggdrop, or anything else to play .ogg on OS X?
<aj> IXUS 30, apparently it does PTP (which i'd never heard of) instead of mass-storage (which i tried and didn't work)
<ivoks> tritium nope
<tritium> my whole collection is in og...
<Lathiat> most canon cameras do both
<Lathiat> gphoto supports the ptp stuff
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> my canon 300d doesn't work with usb-storage
<Lathiat> i can switch between both on my camera
<Lathiat> if i goto options
<ivoks> but does with gtkam and gthumb2
<ivoks> aj yep, IXUS works with gthumb2
<aj> can you mount ptp stuff, or do you have to go through an app?
<Lathiat> aj: afaik through an app atm
<Lathiat> you could probably implement it with fuse
<ivoks> tritium i know that feeling...
<ivoks> tritium i have lot of ogg's too, but mp3 player that doesn't know anything about ogg :(
<tritium> ivoks, I bought an iRiver ifp800, which supports ogg, but their newer players don't...
<ivoks> eh..
<doko> ajmitch_: ping
<ivoks> lol
<ajmitch_> doko: yes?
<ivoks> i'm repackaging herve's packages :)
<tritium> it's nearly 3:30.  I'm heading to bed.  Good night, guys.
<ivoks> night
<ivoks> europe will take over now :)
<tritium> nice talking with you, aj :)
<ajmitch_> night tritium
<tritium> night ajmitch_ :)
* ajmitch_ wishes desperately for more bandwidth
<ivoks> :/
<ivoks> ajmitch_ adsl?
<ajmitch_> ivoks: 256Kbps
<doko> ajmitch_: just add a note to bayonne, that it's an application, there no other packages depending to it. we will not rename it, but autobuild it after the transition
<ajmitch_> doko: that's fine, I expected it to build ok (as it did)
<ivoks> ajmitch_ i have couple of free UTP6... 1gbit/s
<ivoks> ajmitch_ and i have extra room for u :)
<ajmitch_> :P
<ajmitch_> maybe I should move to australia to get better bandwidth ;)
<ivoks> :)
<doko> ajmitch_: if for some reason, you have to upload packages, which are only rebuilt, don't use an -ubuntuX extension, but something like -buildX or -cxxX
<ajmitch_> alright
<ajmitch_> none of the ones so far are like that - I've done the libcommoncpp* & libcc* packages, as well as clanlib today
<ajmitch_> do you want bugs/patches filed in bugzilla?
<doko> ajmitch_: yes, the idea is to have one common place for the whole transition. using UNKNOWN is just fine
<ajmitch_> ok, so not just the wiki then? :)
<ajmitch_> since that's what we've usually done
<doko> ajmitch_: we want to reference the patch, and that one is included in the bug report
<ajmitch_> bugzilla & I are not friends
<ajmitch_> all packages are to be reviewed before uploading, even universe?
<ivoks> i need a break...
<doko> it would be nice, if somebody reviews some packages first. just have four eyes on the patch, so we don't end up with unbuildable applications
<ajmitch_> alright
* ajmitch_ is still waiting for the bugzilla page to load
<ivoks> yes, it takes ages..
<ivoks> bye
<janm> hi everyone
<ajmitch_> hi janm
<janm> I noticed a few java packages without an ubuntu revision (ubuntuX) and just wondering if these are the packages that needs fixing for breezy?
<ajmitch_> I wouldn't know, why do you think they'll need fixing?
<ajmitch_> is there something that needs to be done to all java packages?
<janm> I'm just looking at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/JavaPackagingProgress, and there are packages that needs to be rebuilt against gcj-4.0.
* ajmitch_ takes a quick look
<janm> and considering that packages from debian build-depends on jikes/kaffe, I thought some packages might need ubuntu-gcj love. :)
<ajmitch_> yeah, quite probably
<ajmitch_> :)
<ajmitch_> I haven't looked at java stuff at all
<herve> morning
<ajmitch_> hi herve
<goofrider_> is there a consensus on a JVM?
<goofrider_> i didn't think so
<goofrider_> janm, not that i'm a dev or maintainer, but I was rather skeptical about commiting to gcj/gij
<goofrider_> ajmitch_, don't look. Java in Ubuntu/Debian is just..um... a mess LOL
<janm> goofrider_: I was actually talking to man-di awhile ago and he's saying that jikes is a better bytecode compiler compared to gcj.
<goofrider_> janm, i just think native java packages is a bad idea
<goofrider_> it's un-java
<goofrider_> janm, FYI, Fedora provides BOTH bytecode and native complied of Eclipse, not just native
<goofrider_> janm, I don't want to sound like a whiner. I want to contribute as well. But there's so much about Java packaging that needs to be resolved
<ajmitch_> goofrider_: yes, and that is why there are people committed to cleaning up the mess :P
<goofrider_> ajmitch_, can I help? I'm not an expert but I have plenty of time
<goofrider_> LOL
<ajmitch_> goofrider_: sure, but I'm definitely not the one to ask :)
<goofrider_> ajmitch_, well is there a java team in universe?
<ajmitch_> not that I'm aware of
<janm> question is: Is JavaPackaging really committed to gcj at least for breezy? Because I don't want to start helping out and then suddenly somebody decides to switch to jikes or similar
<ajmitch_> I know jbailey is one of the people working on it
<herve> theorically, there's one
<goofrider_> janm, I don't think there's a gcj commitment
<ajmitch_> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaRoadmap
<goofrider_> reading
<ajmitch_> so.. jbailey & doko
<herve> what team doko is not in? :-)
<ajmitch_> hmmm... :)
<goofrider_> ajmitch_, that roadmap is very authorative but yet very inconclusive  LOL
<goofrider_> it mentioned ecj but not gcj
<ajmitch_> goofrider_: sure, it was just a discussion at UDU, you'd need to talk to the people involved :)
<goofrider_> janm, the JavaPackaging wikipage does not seem to be authorative nor a sign of commitment. It's a recommendation in progress
<goofrider_> AFAI can tell
<janm> But http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/JavaPackagingProgress says something about gcj
<goofrider_> janm,  that's just a recommendation for future plans
<tseng> nothing from udu is "authoritive" we ran through > 100 specs in 6 days
<ajmitch_> it does refer to gcj indirectly, by referring to the toolchain roadmap
<goofrider_> tseng, at least it's more authorative that that JavaPackaingProgress page
<tseng> im not sure what you even mean by authorative
<ajmitch_> hi tseng
<tseng> hi
<goofrider_> oh wait.. JavaPackaging Progress is something different
<goofrider_> it's new
<goofrider_> oh wait it's not new, I read it long time ago
<goofrider_> janm, that page is pre-UDU
<goofrider_> janm, I think u see where I'm coming from. The Ubuntu Java plan is so unclear it's very heard to figure out how to help
<goofrider_> or who to ask
<ajmitch_> I've told you who to ask
<goofrider_> ajmitch_, yes I'll hunt them down
<tseng> ogra: im ready for mono and gtk-sharp to go to main any time now
<goofrider_> janm, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/JavaPackagingProgress seems to be strictly a plan to get Eclipse packaged and running, not a general Java plan
<janm> goofrider_: uhmm.. yeah. thanks. And I agree that we realy need to have an authoritative document for java stuff for breezy.
<goofrider_> janm, UDU wiki has more authorative documents about Java plans
<goofrider_> and more concrete
<goofrider_> janm can I pvt u?
<tseng> ogra: that will pull monodoc also
<Lathiat> tseng: yay :)
* Nafallo == the_geek
<Nafallo> :-P
<ajmitch_> hello Nafallo
<Nafallo> I just wrote my national test in swedish :-P
<Nafallo> hi ajmitch_ :-)
<janm> ajmitch_: what's the proper channel for contacting the Java packaging leads? -devel?
<ajmitch_> janm: yeah, or email :)
<janm> ajmitch_: thank you :)
<goofrider_> janm, there's a #ubuntu-java channel
<Nafallo> I actually managed to advocate Ubuntu and Linux in an essay about the transform of the swedish language ;-).
<Nafallo> s/transform/transformation/
* Lathiat looks at Nafallo 
<Nafallo> Lathiat: hehe :-)
<Nafallo> Lathiat: that look says that I'm right about being the_geek ;-)?
<Lathiat> something like that
<Nafallo> :-)
<ivoks> hi
<Nafallo> hi ivoks
<ivoks> Nafallo hello
<ivoks> i recompiled whole vtk package... build it
<ivoks> then was time for install
<ivoks> but... i didn't see one thing in rules... and how how to recompile it again
<ivoks> that sucks :)
<ivoks> nubious that's vmware related
<herve> ivoks, just run debuild again
<ivoks> herve that's yours package :)
<ivoks> bad rules, bad bad rules :)
<ivoks> mv, cp, etc... :)
<herve> ?
<herve> I just fixed it
<herve> which gave me the hell of a time
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> wait
<ivoks> 4.2.6-5ubuntu1?
<ivoks> vtk
<herve> yes, python transition
<herve> see the changelog
<herve> I wonder if a resync with debian 4.4 is not worth
<ivoks> yes, but...
<ivoks> i'm doing cxx transition
<ogra> morning all
<ivoks> and packages should be named with c2, shouldn't they?
<ivoks> and the wiki is empty, no signs of any work
<ajmitch_> library packages should, yes
<tseng> hi ogra
<ajmitch_> empty?
<ogra> tseng, thats great, so lets do it monday, we'll need elmo around i guess....
<ajmitch_> hi ogra
<tseng> yes
<ivoks> ajmitch_ for that package
<Nafallo> hi ogra
<tseng> i just uploaded fixed monodoc
<ogra> saw it :)
<ajmitch_> ivoks: because the list has only been up a day or so?
<ajmitch_> hello trulux
<herve> ivoks, do wether you need, but leave python 2.4 as default
<ivoks> herve i'm doing:
<herve> and think about using the newest 4.4 from debian
<ivoks> rename libvtk4 to libvtk4c2
<ivoks>  rename python-vtk to python-vtkc2
<ivoks>  rename vtk-cl to vtk-clc2
* herve should read the transition notes
<ajmitch_> ivoks: no
<trulux> hey ajmitch_
<ivoks> ok, no...
<trulux> ajmitch_: what's up?
<trulux> ajmitch_: dcc there?
<ajmitch_> libvtk4->libvtk4c2
<ajmitch_> trulux: nope
<ivoks> just that one?
<ivoks> yeah.. only libs
<ajmitch_> but you do not need to change python-vtk or vtk-cl
<ivoks> not interp...
<ivoks> yeah... mistake
<ajmitch_> trulux: starting on the c++ transition, merge work, etc
<herve> and you said you have no time :-)
<trulux> ajmitch_: ok, I'll send you by email the new spec.
<ajmitch_> herve: I don't have any time ;)
<trulux> ajmitch_: C++ transition is going to be a royal pain
<ajmitch_> herve: in a few weeks I'll really be able to start working & doing stuff
<ajmitch_> but I have to get certain things (like SELinux etc) in by feature freeze
<ajmitch_> trulux: why will it be a pain?
<trulux> ajmitch_: due to API changes, the shitload of work, etc
<ajmitch_> trulux: we'll manage
<herve> we always manage :-)
* ogra installs build deps for f-spot ....
* ajmitch_ has a separate chroot setup for breezy dev & sid work now
* Nafallo doesn't like {se,de}.a.u.c :-/.
<ajmitch_> in addition to the spare machines ;)
<ajmitch_> ogra: I got my 5 done today ;)
<ogra> yay
<ajmitch_> dpatch-edit-patch is a wonderful tool
<ivoks> herve you said something about reviewing packages :)
<herve> he he
<ivoks> herve http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/libs/ (ignore gnome cups)
<herve> which one?
<ivoks> herve all :)
<ajmitch_> trulux: which address did you send to?
<ivoks> there are two for now...
<trulux> ajmitch_: gnu.org
<herve> cxx transition?
<ajmitch_> trulux: ok, hopefully it arrives then
<trulux> ajmitch_: hehe
<ivoks> herve yes
<ajmitch_> since it hasn't showed up there yet
<herve> ivoks, I'll read the transition notes then
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ok... there is workaround for firefox in ubuntu
<herve> can I ask a silly question?
<herve> ivoks, yes, in about:config
<ajmitch_> sure
<ajmitch_> this place is full of silly questions ;)
<herve> how do you upload packages for others?
<herve> just sign the .changes?
<ajmitch_> I prefer to extract them, look over the package, debuild -S -k61434dd6
<ajmitch_> which is my key
<herve> ok, sign the whole source package
<herve> ivoks, do you know if your email is whitelisted?
<ajmitch_> well that signs the .dsc * source_changes
<ivoks> herve no
<ivoks> herve i think it isn't
<herve> you never received mail from katie about your uploads?
<ivoks> nope
<ivoks> i never upload anything :)
<herve> you didn't say you fixed some packages,
<herve> ?
<ivoks> hm...?
<herve> probably confusing again :-)
<ivoks> no, i created wifi-radar and this sources for cxx
<trulux> ajmitch_: got it?
<ajmitch_> yes
<trulux> ajmitch_: does it look good for you?
<ajmitch_> I haven't read it yet
<ajmitch_> I am presently trying to hunt down a cd I need for tomorrow
<trulux> ajmitch_: OK, there's no hurry, well, it can't take too much more, but there are other things to do
<trulux> ajmitch_: I'll check my Breezy box today and rebuild some packages
<trulux> ;)
<ajmitch_> have fun
* ajmitch_ is currently reading
<trulux> dpkg with selinux ready
<ajmitch_> manoj's work?
<ajmitch_> I've grabbed his arch branches, haven't built packages yet
<trulux> gonna rebuild some shit as pitti told me, and fix the krsec thingy 'cos I broke it yesterday at 02:00am
<trulux> ajmitch_: OK, we can organize our work, so, we get things done together in less time
<ajmitch_> I'd like to get package patching out of the way in the next week or so
<trulux> at least until I get the TFT this afternoon andx plug the Hoary bo
<trulux> ajmitch_: me too
<ajmitch_> and just focus on policy & tools after that
<ajmitch_> since that is the bulk of the work
* ajmitch_ can do pygtk fairly well, no issues there :)
<doko> ivoks: ping
<ivoks> doko
<trulux> ajmitch_: OK, then we have another thing that is not specified in the spec: Red Hat tools for SELInux config.
<ivoks> yes?
<trulux> ajmitch_: they are python-based
<trulux> ajmitch_: also a Gnome applet to enable/disable SELinux at runtime, see the threshold of AVC, etc
<ajmitch_> trulux: fedora's config tools was mentioned
<trulux> ajmitch_: the latter is almost done but I need a pygtk hacker to get it completely working, I've lost a lot of py-fu
<ajmitch_> I can do that
<trulux> ajmitch_: right, I mentioned them here before the UDU
* ajmitch_ uses python at least weekly
<ajmitch_> you did? :)
* ajmitch_ probably forgot
<ajmitch_> either way, I put them in the UDU spec
<doko> ivoks: please don't rename python-vtk and vtk-tcl
<trulux> ajmitch_: yeah, kamikaze thing, they have tweaked a lot the classes and the like
<ivoks> doko i didn't
<trulux> ajmitch_: so, you can't just take them and use them
<ajmitch_> I remember now, I was trying to get them to run after you checked them out
<trulux> ajmitch_: I will start rsync'ing stuff to pearls.tuxedo-es.org when the flippin box becomes alive again
<ivoks> doko they are as is, libvtk gets c2 suffix
<ajmitch_> trulux: I noticed the wiki was dead..
* ajmitch_ still has his main home box
<ajmitch_> the pam problem is that other packages supply pam config files, iirc
<ajmitch_> so they'd need to be fixed for pam 0.78 (0.79 is current, btw)
<doko> ivoks: ok
<trulux> ajmitch_: yep, everything is dead. we (at OFTC) are firewalling the box(es), but andromeda had serious hd failure
<trulux> ajmitch_: there are back-ups though
<trulux> ajmitch_: and probably the staff will get it online again today
<ajmitch_> manoj is working on looking over all the pam patches, using the latest from FC4+0.79, and presenting it to the debian maintainer
<trulux> ajmitch_: by now, all I can do is send stuff by email, DCC and the like
<ajmitch_> that's a shame
<ivoks> hm...
<trulux> ajmitch_: these things happen ;(
* ajmitch_ ought to backup more of his work on dvds..
<trulux> ajmitch_: no, all my work is in back-ups and I have it here
<trulux> ajmitch_: I mean tuxedo-es.org box
<ivoks> i should start using "preview" on wikis
<trulux> tuxed-es.org and the other hosts are in the OFTC network, some are just mirrors that get rsync'ed, others connect to helium and the rest with andromeda
<ajmitch_> right
<trulux> andromeda is dead, so, only mirrors are up
<trulux> it's good 'cos people don't notice the down-time, but it' a fsck-up to those like me who want to put some crack of the day ;)
* ajmitch_ is a little unclear on the spec here - is the gcc3.4 in main planned to have ssp?
<trulux> anyways, here we go: we have the spec, the plans done and a TODO list which can be well reviewed by pitti
<trulux> ajmitch_: right
<ivoks> bye guys... rest of the day i have to study...
<ajmitch_> trulux: ok, I guess doko, pitti & mdz will all have to sign off on that one
<trulux> ivoks: I should be doing that now, but well, found that my laptop didn't shut down yesterday
<ivoks> :)
<trulux> ivoks: (one of my senseless excuses)
<trulux> ajmitch_: right
<ivoks> herve i'll upload vtk in couple of hours, so you could check that too
<trulux> ajmitch_: regarding patching our kernels, well, I like more the idea of vsecurity, but, if it works, we can just live with them
<ajmitch_> execshield is low priority?
<trulux> ajmitch_: yes
<herve> ivoks, you checked version 4.4?
<ivoks> trulux i'm telling my self every hour "i'll start at 12" "i'll start at 1PM"...
<ivoks> herve no
<ivoks> herve 4.2.6
<ajmitch_> ok, nothing too controversial in the spec then - I'll mainly focus on SELinux, I think
<herve> I'd like to sync again with debian
<herve> we can't live with an old vtk forever
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> ok, then you'll do it?
<\sh> moin
<trulux> ivoks: well, I'm not n +1, so, I'm more like s/girls , where s is studying time and girls are the number of times I've met a girl last week
<ivoks> i can put control up
<trulux> ivoks: /E
<ajmitch_> vtk in Debian (4.4.2-6) is newer than BrUniverse (4.2.6-5ubuntu1)
<ajmitch_> herve: yeah, looks like you'd want to..
<ivoks> trulux :)
<trulux> ajmitch_: me too, we'll work together if that's OK for you
<\sh> *yawn* whats the time?
<ajmitch_> trulux: sure..
<ajmitch_> \sh: about 11:38PM
<\sh> utc?
<ivoks> herve ok, then you do that package... i don't have time anymore this weekend
<herve> will try
<ajmitch_> herve: looks like an easy merge
<\sh> looks like that i have to huarry up to get some food before the shops are closing..*grmpf*
<\sh> bbl
<ivoks> maybe i'll do something around midnight :)
<trulux> ajmitch_: now I'm br, must get a shower and dress up as the other humans do, or they'll catch me up and show me in the next X Files episode
<ajmitch_> trulux: sure..
<ivoks> bye
<trulux> brb
<ajmitch_> herve: update it, put in the c++ fixes, and upload after tuesday
<ajmitch_> simple ;)
<herve> ajmitch_, all transitions I thought simple turned into a pita :-/
<ajmitch_> herve: hehe, so far it's not been too hard :)
<ajmitch_> I've written some scripts to organise my workflow, it's helped a lot
<ajmitch_> :0:> ./stats.sh 6 UPLOAD-READY 1 PENDING
<ajmitch_> it shows that I've got 6 done, one not started for the c++ transition
<ajmitch_> 300 pending, 11 done for merges ;)
<herve> reading those cxx pages is already a task in itself
<ajmitch_> yep
<herve> ajmitch_, you talked about tuesday
<herve> the big move hasn't begun?
<ajmitch_> no, you're not allowed to upload until g++ 4.0 is default in breezy
<herve> so we're just testing using doko's repository for now?
<ajmitch_> no, we're building packages that will be uploaded
<ajmitch_> but the autobuilders still have 3.3 as default
<herve> good, vtk can wait on tuesday!
<doko> herve: yes, just insert the line given in the wiki
<ajmitch_> hi again doko :)
<doko> morning, ajmitch_
<herve> build dep on cppunit becoming cppunit (>= 1.10.2)
<herve> is it ok for you?
<herve> looks like ivoks filed his change in malone, not bugzilla
<doko> herve: which package?
<trulux> back to the battleground
<herve> doko, one of ivoks', tulip or zipios++
<herve> checking...
<ajmitch_> night all
<herve> zipios++
<herve> night ajmitch_
<herve> where bugs to the wiki should go?
<doko> herve: sorry, don't understand your last question
<ogra> herve, there is a website component in bugzilla
<ogra> herve, but i heard they dont get assigned properly....
<doko> no, choose Ubuntu, then component UNKNOWN
<herve> doko, ivoks changed cppunit to cppunit (>= 1.10.2) for zipios++
<herve> I didn't see anything about this on the wiki page
<trulux> ajmitch_: you're going to bed? what time is there?
<trulux> ajmitch_: anyways, sleep well :D
<herve> trulux, [13:38:48]  ajmitch_ \sh: about 11:38PM
<herve> I let you compute the timeshift :-)
<trulux> herve: hehe
<herve> ivoks, there you are!
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i hate studying :)
<herve> ivoks, can you explain to a n00b like me why changing build dep cppunit to cppunit (>= 1.10.2) for zipios++ ?
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> i didn't do that
<ivoks> or maybe? hm..
<ivoks> grrrr
<herve> :-)
<doko> herve, ivoks: this build dependency should be cppunit (>= 1.10.2-3ubuntu1), because it needs to be built against the transitioned cppunit packages
<doko> s/should/must/
<ivoks> hm
<herve> "should" is nice too
<herve> "do not do differently unless you have a fucking good reason!"
<herve> :-)
<herve> anyway, thanks doko
<ivoks> i didn't change that!
<ivoks> :(
<herve> debdiff tells me so
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> i'll do new one
<doko> ivoks: you can't, cppunit isn't done yet.
<ivoks> can u dcc diff to me?
<ivoks> oh...
<doko> 10 minutes ...
<herve> ivoks, anyway, I cannot upload until tuesday
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> something is wrong with 2.6.12 :(
<ivoks> herve are other packages ok?
<herve> looks like
<herve> but I'm all new to toolchain and c++ stuff
<herve> I hope I didn't miss out anything
<ivoks> just a seconde guys
<ivoks> how can I build package that depends on cpuit++ X.Y.Z-4
<ivoks> if i have X.Y.Z-3 version?
<ivoks> herve i'm new to whole this packaging stuff so I need some help in the begining...
<herve> ivoks, if your package can't find its requirements, it's a FTBFS (fails to build from source)
<ivoks> ok
<herve> remember doko have a repository with gcc 4.0 stuff as the default compilers
<ivoks> yes, i know it has
<herve> this will be activated on the autobuilders on tuesday
<ivoks> didn't understand why do I need it
<ivoks> i have gcc4 (breezy)
<herve> the point is gcc->gcc4 and g++->g++4
<herve> g++ is still 3.4 for now
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> ah...
<ivoks> ok...
<ivoks> but there is g++ in breezy
<ivoks> g++4
<ivoks> ah, well...
<doko> herve, ivoks: the repository is upadated. please add to /etc/apt/sources.list:
<herve> ivoks, see the package gcc-defaults
<doko>  deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/GCC-4.0/i386 ./
<herve> doko, still in a chroot?
<koke> hey, it seems my scripts for extracting patches is working!! :)
<koke> http://hermes.amedias.org/~koke/ubuntu/universe-transition/patches/
<doko> sure, or you get most of your desktop removed, if you install some of these libraries
* koke goes for lunch
<herve> :-)
<ivoks> hm...?
<ivoks> so, i should have chrooted enviorment? :)
<ivoks> untill i figure out all details, transition will be over, and breezy will be outdated :)
<herve> no
<herve> apt-get install debootstrap :-)
<ivoks> reading man
<ivoks> jesus...
<ivoks> i can't download all this stuff over dsl
<ivoks> i'll gave to go to uni
<Lathiat> everyone else does
<Lathiat> what speed connection do you have?
<herve> dsl? it's all enough
<ivoks> but dsl isn't cheap here :(
<ivoks> it's not about speed
<ivoks> what the hell... let's go
<Nafallo> ivoks: I run on partial mirror (i386+amd64+src) on DSL (512/512kbit) ;-)
<ivoks> Nafallo you have flat rate
<ivoks> i don't
<ivoks> i pay every MB
<Lathiat> my dsl is 1500/256, im lucky
<Nafallo> ivoks: hmm, that sucks :-P
<Lathiat> ivoks: ouch what kinda of deal are you on
<ivoks> fu*** monopol
<Lathiat> even in australia you dont pay per M
<Lathiat> but its pretty expensive here
<ivoks> well... we have T-Com.
<Lathiat> i pay like twice as much as people in otehr countries who get DSL twice as fast and no quota (i get 10GB quota)
<herve> ivoks, you should look at apt mirrors
<Lathiat> ivoks: we have telstra
<Lathiat> they basically monopolise the market
<Lathiat> and own most of the dslams
<Lathiat> there are lots of isps
<Lathiat> but they all pay telstra money to use their dslams
<herve> ok, I wouldn't tell you have 6MB+telephone+television for 30 eur/m in France ;-)
<Lathiat> see
<Lathiat> i pay..
<Lathiat> 45 euros
<Lathiat> for a 1.5/256 connection with 10GB peak and 10Gb off-peak quota
<Lathiat> and thats cheap
<ivoks> lol
<trulux> Christ
<ivoks> here is 50euros for flatrate
<ivoks> but
<ivoks> the slowest one
<trulux> I pay 39 for 512/128 with no quota limit
<Lathiat> and i pay 15 ueors for the basic phone service
<ivoks> omg
<Lathiat> plus calls
<ivoks> t-com sucks
<Lathiat> and probably another 10-15 euros
<herve> trulux, I pay 10 for this
<Nafallo> 32 euro for 512/512 here in sweden.
<Lathiat> for other crack on my phone
<Lathiat> 512/512 with 20GB quota is like 50
<Lathiat> converting currencies hurts my brain
<Lathiat> thank god theres an irc bot on another channel to do it for me
<ivoks> herve so debootstratp breezy ./ubuntu-cxx http://archive.hr.ubuntu.com ?
<Lathiat> bbs reboot, Xorg is using 120% emory
<Nafallo> you can get 8/1Mbit ADSL for 21.5 euro if you're on the right station though.
<herve> ivoks, looks like, but you'll want some apt cache, no?
<trulux> well, here I don't watch TV except for movies, my books are normally on PS or PDF, the ones which aren't were donated by a friend or someone who thinks I do useful stuff around, boradband is maybe the exception
<Lathiat> ivoks: keep in mind thatl download like 100M+
<trulux> in Spain broadband is pure shit AFAIK
<Lathiat> Nafallo: ugh
<ivoks> heh... Lathiat only? :)
<Lathiat> you can get 8/1 here for $60aud+
<Lathiat> but you have to bundle with there phone service
<Lathiat> which is more expensive than standard
<Lathiat> and also
<Lathiat> you only get like 10GB quota
<Nafallo> Sweden have quota on 100Mbit :-P
<Lathiat> (thats ~36 euros)
<mjr> some 45 eur for 8/1 here; reasonable
<trulux> I don't use the phone, I let people call me except for special cases
<Lathiat> mjr: unlimited?
<mjr> yes
<Nafallo> 300GB/month, but that's the only quotas I'm aware of.
<Lathiat> trulux: the problem is you *have* to have a phone service to have DSL
<Lathiat> Nafallo: fucking hell
<Lathiat> the biggest quota you can get on the 8/1
<Lathiat> is 40/40
<Lathiat> (peak, off-peak)
<trulux> Lathiat: yes, but that's a static cost, like 10 per month to have the line
<herve> Lathiat, I wouldn't pay the telephone line, it's included
<herve> bye bye monopoly
<Lathiat> its at least 15 euros for a basic phone service here
<Lathiat> and the telephone and internet stuff is separate
<trulux> and well, I maintain my home line (you can make it independent by installing a "special device" which is just a shit that connects your wire to their one)
<Lathiat> (and that 15 euros doesnt include any calls, local calls cost..)
<trulux> Lathiat: yep, I don't call so often
<trulux> VoIP rocks ;)
<ivoks> retriving :)
<Lathiat> yeh voip is good
<ivoks> i don't belive I'm doing this :)
<Nafallo> VoIP is fun :-)
<Lathiat> ivoks: arent you paying? :\
* Nafallo got phonenumbers in three cities within sweden now ;-).
<ivoks> Lathiat 512MB = 20kn.. that's about 3 euros
<Lathiat> thats okish
<Lathiat> i pay 0.4c/MB at uni
<ivoks> i pay nothing at uni
<ivoks> i'm admin :)
<Lathiat> which is $410 AUD
<trulux> Lathiat: shit
<ivoks> and i have gbit/s there
<Lathiat> (for a gigabyte of traffic)
<Lathiat> thats 250 euros
<ivoks> omg
<Lathiat> actually i lied
<Lathiat> thats wrong
<Lathiat> its $41 AUD
<Lathiat> so its 25 euros
<Lathiat> i think
<ivoks> that's better
<trulux> ivoks: well, in Spain we have Rediris but it's only for research usage, among the backbones and the like for universities, etc
<Lathiat> maybe more liek 30
<trulux> the problem is the network topology here, I could say that we depend on very concrete nodes
<ivoks> trulux this is CARNet (http://www.carnet.hr) also research network
<trulux> ivoks: :)
<ivoks> trulux but CARNet likes Linux and created own version of Debian
<trulux> ivoks: well, Rediris seems to like old SunOS buggy crappy shittish boxes
<ivoks> trulux if u say "It's for Linux", they say "Rock on!"
<Nafallo> damn do I want 10/10Mbit and static IP.
<trulux> ivoks: here in Spain there's some of FOSS movement but well, I doubt a lot on the underlying philosophy
<ivoks> Nafallo yes
<ivoks> :)
<Nafallo> but I live in the wrong area of this damn city :-P
<trulux> ivoks: too many business men
<trulux> ivoks: and it kinda stinks, also the education. they take everyone at the same point, not as Germany does
<ivoks> trulux FOSS needs buisness man
<ivoks> men
<trulux> ivoks: FOSS needs an underlying philosophy, and it can't be the philosophy of "I take whatever my balls want, you know?"
<ivoks> ok, i'll study tomorrow :)
<ivoks> trulux true
<trulux> ivoks: I'm planning to move out this messy country ;)
<Nafallo> yay! specs for darkelf online :-)
<ivoks> trulux i was in barcelona once
<trulux> ivoks: or I will get someone's nose bleeding ;P
<Nafallo> now I just have to do ogre, silverfairy, goblin and angel to :-P.
<ivoks> trulux lot of people say that too in croatia
<trulux> ivoks: Barcelona is much better than Madrid AFAIK
<ivoks> trulux but i'm thinking this way "man, we don't have anything, nothing was developed for 50 years"
<trulux> Madrid has been under the control of the right wing for too much time
<ivoks> trulux "our economy sucks, isn't this right place and time to sell ideas and products which WORK?"
<trulux> but well, people is stupid, they choose that, and now they get fucked with it. Nothing wrong ;)
<trulux> ivoks: right
<ivoks> first time i saw ubuntu I was surprised
<ivoks> i contaced local LUG
<ivoks> that was year ago..
<ivoks> but no... for them Mandrake is like a God
<trulux> ivoks: the point is, in the History, some countries spent much more time than the rest on investing, supporting and taking care of the out-stdnading minds that were in the worst situations you can even imagine, watching how their ideas were in jail with no possible solution, watching their dreams going out of the barriers of their jails leaving them alone
<ivoks> trulux we had 50 years of 'if u say you don't think so, you get in jail"
<ivoks> and jail was good place, among others..
<trulux> ivoks: we had 30, and there's a lot to tell about that, some that people have NFC
<trulux> ivoks: you know, here people shit on those go take military service, that go to war
<trulux> but those are the most poor people
<ivoks> ok... we are offtopic :)
<trulux> those who can't pay the bitching university to go to the Icade or other fscking only-rich-pockets school
<Lathiat> offtopic? when are we ever on topic :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i just don't want to see wars, guns and anything alike anymore
<trulux> and must study while taking the weapons to give defense their country, and to those who say they are just killers
<ivoks> man, that sucks...
<ivoks> you can't imagine what happend here...
<trulux> I can do, if there's something that interests me in life more than this, that's History. It makes you independent and able to understand today's fights and situations
<trulux> I recommend you to look for the war of Ifni
<trulux> lemme take a look for an URL
<ivoks> no, don't
<ivoks> i don't like wars
<trulux> ivoks: say that when someone wants to crunch your country and those who you love and care about
<ivoks> when i was young, i dream about flying and being fighter pilot
<ivoks> trulux that happend here
<ivoks> trulux and look at us now
<trulux> I'm talking on being patriot, not a fascist killer
<trulux> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerra_olvidada
<ivoks> i know..
<ivoks> but look at croatia
<trulux> "the forgotten war"
<ivoks> just take a minute and look at us
<ivoks> we fighted for our livec
<ivoks> lives
<ivoks> we've beeten one of most powerfull armys in europe
<ivoks> just to have our contry after so many years of pressure
<ivoks> and look at politics now
<trulux> people on Spain have mostly NFC  on it, but one member of my family is a veteran of that war. He learnt and shared duty, honour and real friendship with those who were putting their life at risk at Sidi Ifni while rich men were partying at Spain
<ivoks> everybody says WE are killers, WE don't like Serbs, WE this, WE that...
<ivoks> omg...
<ivoks> when Serbs bommbed my town, I was building a house
<trulux> my uncle couldn't pay they money that the government asked for leaving the military service, nor he wanted
<ivoks> and workes were Serbs
<ivoks> come on... what hate? we don't hate anyone...
<ivoks> that's why i like linux, noone asks where u from, what nationality
<trulux> I don't hate people, I hate their actions ;)
<ivoks> all of us just want to do better operating system
<herve> see you later
<trulux> and? we are all conditioned by personal situations, by feelings
<ivoks> bye
<trulux> you can't take them out and jail them so you are independent of what you feel
<ivoks> phone
<trulux> ivoks: cu
<trulux> anyways, I dislike to talk about this, we could talk about it some other day, it doesn't do any good to me, nor I think most people can understand what I'm talking about, but that's out there. Read as much books on History as you can, from those in left and right wing, from fascists, socialists or anyone. You must get the points and ideas from everyone and then make your own ones.
<trulux> then you'll be free ;)
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> or you can refuse to think about that at all :)
<trulux> no kidding, I'm not joking on it
<trulux> not, you can't
<trulux> avoiding problems can make you falling in them again
<ivoks> trulux that's true
<trulux> think on those who fall in the drugs world, too deep that they can't live without them, their families leave them alone, etc
<trulux> but they even take the chance of fighting against that
<trulux> and get living again and caring about life, like a re-birth from the ashes that others made out of him because of their fascist thinking
<trulux> you know, I feel like kicking the heads of those teenagers that stay in the street drinkign alcohol, sniffing coke and the like, while that money and effort could be spent to prevent people dying of starvation and sadness in that thign we call the third world
<trulux> (as you can see, FOSS is a personal thing to me, but as the underlying philosoy behind it)
<trulux> philosophy
<ivoks> i see you are very passionat
<trulux> ivoks: right, sometimes it causes me problems ;)
<ivoks> i'm sure it does :)
<trulux> but normally it makes me stronger on taking decisions, but well, that's too private to talk in front of 49 people ;D
<trulux> I must have some work done right now, but I'll be around
<trulux> ivoks: nice to talk to you ;)
<ivoks> to you to...
<ivoks> i'm bootstraping so can't devote all my atetntion to you :)
* trulux needs to write a manifesto, so, he won't need to do more than pointing people at an URL when a political,ethical or alike discussion comes up
<trulux> ivoks: I need to do that too, I'm still on the laptop, I hope to buy a new TFT screen this afternoon
<ivoks> hm..
<ivoks> this doesn't look good :(
<trulux> ivoks: anything wrong?
<trulux> lemme check if it works here
<ivoks> i guess you have to have root for this
<trulux> ivoks: for deboostrap'ing?
<ivoks> yes
<trulux> ivoks: BTW, won't write a manifesto, those who write them end by commiting suicide ;P
<ivoks> :)
<trulux> ivoks: I think yes, but it will depend on the target location too
<ivoks> nope..
<ivoks> it tries to mount something
<ivoks> only root can do that
<ivoks> sudo doesn't work
<ivoks> maybe i did something wrong :)
<ivoks> heh... i started with fakeroot... idiot :)
<trulux> haha
<trulux> common mistake
<ivoks> time for reboot
<ivoks> i'll be back :)
<ivoks> this is second time my pan lost all it's settings
<Nafallo> yay!
<Nafallo> I got specs for my computers online :-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ubuntulinux.org down?
<Lathiat> seems so
<ivoks> here it is
<ivoks> or not :)
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> i fixed libzipio++0
<ivoks> could someone review it?
<Lathiat> get in the queue :)
<ivoks> it is :)
<ivoks> but it had error
<ivoks> tritium and check it? :)
<ivoks> ok, time to go...
<ivoks> see u later aligatros
<herve> ping
<siretart> pong
<siretart> :)
<ersin> hey everyone...i have an hplip question
<ersin> is there an ubuntu deb package of the latest hplip?
<herve> ersin, http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=hplip
<ersin> awesome!  i'll try it out...thanks
<GheRivero> res
<doko> ivoks: ping
<herve> re
* koke transitioning the world :P
<koke> http://amedias.ath.cx/~koke/universe-transition/transition-patches.log
<herve> you got slashdotted or what? :-)
<koke> herve: ?
<herve> timeout
<koke> humm
<koke> maybe this cheap dsl router...
<koke> ouch, it was redirecting incoming connections to my (sleeping) laptop
<koke> :P
<koke> try now
<herve> good
<herve> ivoks, and your studying, hu? :-p
<ivoks> ah...
<koke> tomorrow, I'll upload the result to some university server with more bandwidth :)
<ivoks> i have sunday :)
<herve> koke, you mean you automatically fetch BTS patches and apply them to ubuntu source packages?
<ivoks> herve i fixed libzipio
<herve> ivoks, you remind me when I was a student ;-)
<ivoks> :)
<herve> ivoks, you have until tuesday
<ivoks> ok
<koke> herve: yep :)
<koke> then I'll review by hand
<herve> by the time I'll also set up a pbuild with doko's repository
<herve> koke president!
<Nafallo> hi all!
<koke> this "|| P || affix || 285067 || Yes ||" is Patch in bts #285067 is applied correctly
<herve> or maybe just a debootstrap
<ivoks> pbuild?
<koke> and this "|| B || affix || Yes ||" is that debuild -S ... worked
<herve> you don't know about pbuild? :)-
<ivoks> nope
<ivoks> pbuilder
<herve> koke, sources anywhere,
<herve> ?
<herve> pbuilder, yes
<herve> pbuild is the verb
<koke> http://amedias.ath.cx/~koke/universe-transition/result/
<herve> koke, I mean your script :-)
<koke> ok :D
<koke> huh, let me see
<doko> herve: that looks cool
<koke> the part to fetch the patches is in python
<ivoks> herve i never created debian package untill last week
<herve> doko, wrong people!
<koke> arch repo at: http://www.amedias.org/~koke/arch/
<ivoks> herve so i have to learn a lot
<herve> koke, an arch user! yoohoo!
<koke> koke@amedias.org--2005/universe-transition--koke--0.1
<herve> ivoks, as I do, you're not far behind my skills
<koke> and the rest is a shell script and some dput magic :D
<doko> herve: sorry, you'r not cool, koko is ;-)
<ivoks> and I've been using debian since '98. :(
<ivoks> shame on me :(
<herve> s/koko/koke :-)
<doko> ivoks: please could you file your bug report for zipios++ in bugzilla?
<herve> which answers one of my question about life, universe and the rest
<ivoks> doko sure
<herve> does doko ever sleeps... not much it seems :-)
<herve> ivoks, since 2000
<ivoks> herve i know :)
<herve> ivoks, right I forgot, you should probably close the one in malone, as invalid probably
<ivoks> ok
<herve> doko, easy shot... what do you think about running zope2.7 packages with python2.4 in ubuntu?
<koke> herve: FYI, once you get the sources from the repos, run ./update-pages.sh
<koke> to fetch UniverseCxxTransition from the wiki
<herve> koke, just wondered about how you did it
<koke> then a ./test.py would fetch and extract the patches
<koke> download too http://amedias.ath.cx/~koke/universe-transition/try-to-patch.sh.txt
<koke> and look at http://amedias.ath.cx/~koke/universe-transition/dput.txt
<koke> after that, the last bit of magic
<koke> for i in `cat patches-list`;do ./try-to-patch.sh $i | tee -a transition-patches.log;done
<koke> now, I have to gon
<koke> go
<koke> I guess tomorrow I'll blog this :)
<herve> and point it to the fearless motus
<koke> I wanted to code all in python, but I'm a pynewbie, and wanted to have it done today
<koke> that's the cause of the language mixture
<herve> that reminds when I write scripts for tla
<koke> and mostly because it's a one-time run
<herve> some are bash, others are python
<koke> once the packages are done, the scripts are useless :)
<herve> I don't blame you :-)
<doko> koke: do you auto-build the resulting packages by script as well?
<koke> doko: no, only debuild -S
<ivoks> hm...
<koke> I was planning to build them in another computer
<koke> one that is idle 98% of the time :)
<Nafallo> hmm, I have to pull the patches manually? ;-)
<koke> I have to go now
<ivoks> great... build fails :(
* Nafallo goes to make some food
<herve> Nafallo, good idea
<herve> ivoks, with g++4.0? you tried pbuilder?
<ivoks> strange failure
<ivoks> no warnings and errors
<ivoks> just a sec..
<herve> looks like the upgrade of new hal/dbus is close to be safe
<ivoks> ok... it's ok
<ivoks> but someone should check this...
<herve> can I see the log?
<ivoks> sec
<ivoks> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10782
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/libs
<ivoks> it's ok
<trulux> tritium: ping
<herve> I hope so, I can't find the log :-)
<ivoks> changelog?
<herve> no, the build log
<ivoks_> huh
<ivoks> uh
<ivoks> ubuntulinux.org down again?
<ivoks> doko there, fixed
<herve> see you later
<ivoks> bye
<ivoks> herve
<ivoks> herve is it ok if I take care of libvtk4?
<doko> ivoks: where's the diff?
<ivoks> doko of package?
<ivoks> or source?
<doko> libzipios
<ivoks> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10782
<doko> there is no diff.
<ivoks> debdiff
<doko> please do debdiff <old version>.dsc <new version>.dsc >  zipios++.diff
<ivoks> ok
<doko> ant attach the file to the report, do not paste it in
<ivoks> ok, i understand
<ivoks> sorry
<ivoks> tsume lies?
<ivoks> doko ok now?
<doko> no, you have to compare the .dsc files, not the .deb's
<ivoks> omg...
<ivoks> sorry
<herve> cheer up, ivoks!
<herve> I'm just passing by :-)
<ivoks> eh...
<ivoks> herve vtk4-4.4.2 doesn't look good
* goofrider is back (gone 26:15:00)
* Nafallo loves gthumb
<Nafallo> the damn thing actually has a webgallery-generator :-P.
<ivoks> yes :)
<ivoks> it does
<doko> ivoks: Package: libzipios++-dev
<doko> Section: libdevel
<doko> Architecture: any
<doko> Depends: libzipios++0c102 (= ${Source-Version})
<doko> this package is uninstallable ...
<ivoks> ok... but libzipios++0c2 provides that one
<doko> no
<ivoks> no?
<ivoks> Replaces: libzipios++0c102
<ivoks> i was going to fix that -dev
<ivoks> but wasn't sure should i leave it or change it...
<doko> and it's libzipios++0.dirs, not libzipios++0.dir
<ivoks> isn't it?
<ivoks> then it was wrong before i took it
<ivoks> ok, np
<ivoks> i'll fix all that
<doko> already done
<ivoks> heh :(
<herve> Nafallo, yeah I found the gallery generator handy
<herve> ivoks, you can't compile vtk 4.4?
<ivoks> no
<herve> so it ain't any better
<ivoks> i give up
<herve> I said that when trying to solve vtk 4.2 :-)
<ivoks> no, i give up on packaing for cxx
<ivoks> i have so many to learn yet...
<ivoks> avery package i crate is crapy
<herve> you didn't think you became the living god of packaging in a week? :-)
<doko> ivoks, no don't give up, that was the first one, the second one gets better :-)
<herve> you just forgot a few characters
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> i didn't say i'll do it all good in a week
<ivoks> but i can't do cxx transition with so many errors
<ivoks> i'll do packaging for my self and suggest for new packages
<herve> people before you learnt the job from previous transitions
<herve> s/learnt/arrive
<herve> argh!
<ivoks> heh
<herve> sorry I'm tired :-)
<ivoks> me too
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> well, enough for today...
<ivoks> maybe tomorrow will be better day :)
<ivoks> bye
<herve> no
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-15
<Toadstool> 'night all
<LaserJock> hi dAndy
<zakame> hi dAndy
<dAndy> hello
<LaserJock> dAndy: running Ubuntu dapper?
<dAndy> LaserJock: of course :)
<LaserJock> dAndy: open up the system documentation
* dAndy is interested in learning to build debs, and is having issues finding *decent* tutorials
<theCore> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> dAndy: System -> Help -> System Documentation
<dAndy> LaserJock: yeah found it
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<theCore> LaserJock: making some for our guides ;P
<theCore> some promo*
<LaserJock> theCore: heck yeah!
<theCore> LaserJock: any updates about the cover art for the printed versions?
<LaserJock> theCore: there was an alternative one by an -artwork guy on the ML a while back, but I don't know that we ever decided
<theCore> LaserJock: what is the deadline?
<LaserJock> theCore: not sure, as mdke
<theCore> mdke: ?
* theCore just realized that he is on -motu, not -doc *sigh*
<LaserJock> heh
<theCore> that's second time this week that happen
<ajmitch> morning all
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> well, hopefully my application for SoC gets accepted, out of the 6297 that were submitted :)
<LaserJock> wow, that's quite a few
<LaserJock> do you know how many they accept?
<ajmitch> it was 400 last year
<tseng> gnome has a top limit of 300
<ajmitch> probably a similar number this year
<tseng> for a general idea
<tseng> but there are far fewer mentors than that
<ajmitch> of course there's a lot of crap that gets submitted as well
<LaserJock> ajmitch: really? I can't imagine ;-)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hey bddebian
<ajmitch> what's up?
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> Not much, you?
<ajmitch> sitting around like usual
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Did zakame get in?
<ajmitch> nope
<bddebian> No? :-(
<ajmitch> getting into main isn't easy
<sivang> bddebian: TB wanted to see more involved patches to main packages, before approving IIRC
<sivang> bddebian: but guess who got approved for universe? :-)
<bddebian> sivang: You?  Ooohh no.. ;-)
<sivang> bddebian: oh yes Sir!
<sivang> now we can break things *together*
<sivang> :p
<bddebian> w00t!!! :-)
<ajmitch> joy
<tseng> sivang: nice
<bddebian> sivang: Hmm, maybe I should try to break main now then? :-)
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<tseng> hi
<sivang> tseng: thanks, it was a long way, finally it paid off
<sivang> bddebian: yes, and then I will come after you :)
<sivang> how does it work from now? does my key get automatically whitelisted for uploading ?
<bddebian> sivang: :-)
<ajmitch> sivang: yes
<sivang> ajmitch: cool, thanks
<ajmitch> bddebian: sure, go ahead
<sivang> ajmitch: sorry again about the zope thing
<bddebian> ajmitch mocks me now
<ajmitch> don't worry, I'll hunt you down & make you pay for beer at the next conf we're both at
<ajmitch> bddebian: nah, just get doing some work on main
<bddebian> Well I don't think I'll be in Paris :-(
<bddebian> I have done some main work btw :-)
* ajmitch won't be in paris either
<bddebian> bbiab, bath time for kiddies
<sivang> ajmitch: make sure you do that, I tend to forget my beer commitments :)
<sivang> oh my god! I should have gone to sleep like 5 hours ago, and I'm still here!
<ajmitch> then go & sleep
<sivang> I need to, yes :) and there's work tomorrow :)
<sivang> okay, I guess it's really night now
<sivang> good night all!
<ajmitch> night
<bddebian> Gnight sivang, congrats
* ajmitch needs to find lunch or something
<persia> torcs packaging is incredibly frustrating: one must edit the patches manually after cdbs-edit-patch to make them apply!
<bddebian> Yep.  I played with it during Breezy
<bddebian> persia: Are you going to go for MOTU?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<persia> bddebian: I hadn't planned to (multi-month absences make for poor reliability).  Are you sick of uploading patches?
<bddebian> persia: No, not at all but you do a lot so I thought you be a great addition
<persia> bddebian: When I'm on holiday (like now), I'm useful.  When working, I'm likely to not check my email for three weeks running :).
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> persia: Ah
<bddebian> Heya jaldhar
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> heya persia!  I'm getting some lintian flags from your patch on kdrill
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> hi bddebian! :D
<persia> zakame: Um.  Help me to understand how to see them, so I can fix them.
<zakame> persia: you have built it on your box right?  There should be a kdril_*i386.changes somewhere; you can check what lintian has to say about it via `lintian -vi kdrill_6.4-2ubuntu_i386.changes | pager`
<zakame> note that you have to get the lintian and debian-policy pkgs installed if you haven't
<persia> zakame: I delete after uploading the patch, but I can restore...
<zakame> what concerned me was the warnings about /usr/X11R6 paths still in use
<persia> zakame: If that is the case, the patch needs work!  I'm looking at it now.
<zakame> the exact warnings are : package-installs-file-tousr-x11r6 manpage-section-mismatch unquoted-string-in-menu-item , among other things :/
<persia> zakame: Is this with the last patch in the sequence?  When I run `patch -p0 < M28810-sed+desktop.patch`, and compile, I don't get the package-installs-file-to-usr-x11r6 error, although the manpage and menu issues are there.  Also, despite the warnings, the icon appears in the xdg-menu tree properly.
<zakame> yes, the latest... just tried again on both my local machine and on tiber
<persia> zakame: I should see these with `lintian -vi kdrill_6.4-2ubuntu1_amd64.changes | less`
<persia> ?
<zakame> yeah
<zakame> less == pager for certain values of pager :P
<persia> zakame: I don't.  My errors are debhelper-compat 3, ancient standards, NMU, space in manpage, bad .TH in manpage, installs to /usr/man/, unquoted string in menu, and menu-icon missing (it's in a support package).  I can fix all this, but I first want to understand why you are seeing installations in the X11 directories.
<persia> bddebian: Thanks for the uploads.  Let me know if one of the patches has aged since posting (stomps another version), and I'll update.
<zakame> persia: well, kdril's /usr/bin is empty, for one; the kdrill binary itself is in /usr/X11R6/bin/
<bddebian> persia: Yeah, gweled.  A build1 has been uploaded.  But also, I don't see any changes to the patches/blahdesktop.patch?
<persia> bddebian: Hmm...  My local copy of the patch shows changes to Icon and Categories.  I'm not very worried about gweled, as it is currently broken and upstream is apparently comatose.  I'll update the patch in a bit.
<bddebian> Heh, NP
<persia> zakame: in my local build directory, there is no debian/kdrill/usr/X11R6, and dpkg -L for my local install only shows /etc/X11 as an X directory.  I'll check to make sure the correct patch is in LP.
<zakame> persia: yes, thanks :D
<persia> zakame: Yep.  My local patch matches the latest in LP.  My method for generating the changes was `apt-get source kdrill; sudo apt-get build-dep kdrill; sudo apt-get install libxp-dev; patch -p0 < ../patches/M28810-sed+desktop.patch; cd kdrill-6.4/; fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc; cd..
<zakame> I would advise using debdiff rather than patch, 'tis much easier: apt-get source kdrill; cd kdrill-6.4; [do changes] ; [build the package] ; cd ..; debdiff kdrill_6.4-2.dsc kdrill_6.4-2ubuntu1.dsc > kdrill_6.4-2ubuntu1.debdiff
<bddebian> Anyone here know Japanese?
<persia> Grr..  The latest vegastrike sync reopened #1696 (my first Ubuntu patch).
<ajmitch> Yagisan, if he's around :)
<persia> bddebian: A little.  Why?
<bddebian> persia: I'm trying to figure out if konqplus is dead upstream and the website listed in README is http://www.kde.gr.jp  and I can't read a lick of Japanese :-)
<persia> zakame: When I make manual changes, I follow that process.  The previous was when applying a previously created patch (as in this case).
<persia> bddebian: I can't find it on the wiki, it's not on the Japanese KDE users group wiki page about Konqueror, and not in the translation assignments list.
<bddebian> persia: Find what?
<persia> bddebian: konqplus.  Inoue-san doesn't even have a homepage on www.kde.gr.jp anymore.
<bddebian> Ah, OK, thank you sir
<persia> bddebian: No worries.  Let me know if you find another upstream in .jp that needs decyphering.
<persia> zakame: Are you still getting the X11 directories issue?  Does it fix it when you use my script above to compile?
<bddebian> persia: OK, your wiki is clear, now get to work ;-P
<persia> bddebian: Thanks!  #43937 is the only patch I've written since I last updated the wiki :)
<bddebian> persia: I'm on it :-)
<persia> bddebian: `apt-cache policy gnome-bluetooth` reports dapper/universe.  Is this not the right method to use to determine the repository?
<bddebian> persia: I usually do 'apt-cache madison foo'
<persia> bddebian: It's in main AND universe?  Now I'm really confused.
<bddebian> persia: Sometimes the source can be in main but one of the binaries in universe and such
<bddebian> Yeah, libgnomebt0 etc are in main
<bddebian> While the binary package gnome-bluetooth itself is in Universe
<persia> bddebian: I understand.  I'll have to move some of the stuff on my wiki back into main :(
<bddebian> It sucks when you run into those and don't realize it :-)
<bddebian> I've done it several times
<persia> bddebian: That's probably good - it helps build the main bug fixes you sought earlier :)
<bddebian> I sought main bug fixes?
<persia> (09:13:32) sivang: bddebian: TB wanted to see more involved patches to main packages, before approving IIRC
<persia> bddebian: Never mind: missed the humor in your following statements.  Apologies.
<bddebian> persia: Oh that was about zakame iirc
<bddebian> No worries :-)
<bddebian> I don't think anyone in Debian or Ubuntu gets my "humor" :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian has humor?
<bddebian> Yeah, isn't it funny that you think I am going to look at Science bugs anymore?
<bddebian> ;-P
<persia> I'm confused about build failures for glob2.  I can compile it fine locally (AMD64), but on yellow, it just broke.  The error is "make[1] : *** No rule to make target `distclean'.  Stop.", which just isn't reported locally.  Anyone have any suggestions?
<bddebian> Hey, there's waldo!  We've been looking everywhere.. :-)
<bddebian> persia: With your patch or just the regular source?
<persia> bddebian: The yellow failure is with my patch, and my local success as well.
<waldo> anyone wanna help me figure why my fresh install of dapper (386-- old desktop) segfaults w/gnome-nettool
<persia> bddebian: I just tried with the last repository source, and it doesn't crash there locally either.
<waldo> no takers?
<bddebian> waldo: Have you tried asking in #ubuntu?
<persia> bddebian: Nevermind.  I found it: missing build-depends on autotools-dev.
<bddebian> persia: Gotcha
<waldo> bddebian: yep
<persia> bddebian: Do you want another patch, or would you be willing to fix it with -ubuntu3?
<bddebian> persia: ?
<bddebian> waldo: What kind of nic?
<bddebian> Oh and how much RAM?
<waldo> bddebian: umm let me check the kernel module.  The error I get from gdb is  SIGSEGV and the error is in g_slice_alloc() from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0
<waldo> very little ram
<waldo> old old machine
<waldo> like from 1998... old laptop I'm setting up with dapper and giving to a friend
<bddebian> waldo: It may have issues if it has <256Mb I think
<waldo> I think it has at least that
<waldo> the network works btw.. wireless card... yenta -- pcmcia wireless card
<waldo> i think it's crashing trying to release memory or something
<waldo> but the question is why...
<persia> bddebian: Apologies.  Context: glob2 0.8.16-2ubuntu2 FTBFS in a buildd environment.  The fix is to add autotools-dev to Build-Depends.  Shall I open a bug & file a patch, or do you still have a build tree lying around that might be faster?
<bddebian> waldo: Is it anything like this:  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-nettool/+bug/24242 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 24242 in gnome-nettool "gnome-nettool 1.4.1 segfaults when called from the commandline with wrong or incomplete arguments." [Unknown,Fix released] 
<waldo> bdebbian looking...
<bddebian> persia: I have it here but what other changes does it need?
<waldo> bddebian: it's failing being called w/o any arguments AND from the menu..
<waldo> maybe some of the users are noting the same thing tho
<bddebian> waldo: What version of gnome-nettools is installed?
<persia> bddebian: other changes?  I'll wait for waldo.
<waldo> how bddebian interesting--  when I did the commandline "gnome-nettool --help" it comes up with help (not the version tho)..
<waldo> how can I tell version?
<waldo> is there a way to ask apt-get ?
<bddebian> persia: What was the original patch for?  it looked strange to me
<bddebian> waldo: dpkg -l |grep gnome-nettool
<waldo> sorry I'm new to ubuntu.. usually use gentoo...
<waldo> it's 2.14.1-0ubuntu1
<persia> bddebian: You have entirely too much confidence in me :).  .desktop cleanup (encoding, add X-), config.{sub,guess} moving to build rule.
<waldo> When I do "gnome-nettool -p www.aap.nl" which supposedly works in this bug report, I get a "*** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (out):  0x08355400 *** Aborted"
<waldo> I'm at your disposal to try to fix/debug/stacktrace/whatever you want
<bddebian> waldo: I hate to say this but you are probably going to have to submit a bug on Malone.  You are over my head for trying to fix that one.  Sorry.
<bddebian> persia: I know but your patch to debian/patches/whatever_desktop.patch looked exactly the same as what was in the original afaict
<waldo> do you know how to do a stack trace to figure where the problem might be?  I'd like to be complete, but I'm no gdb guy...
<persia> waldo: Take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
<waldo> k... thx
<persia> bddebian: glob2 didn't have a patch system.  The changes were 1) add "Encoding", and 2) change "MultipleArgs" to "X-MultipleArgs".
<bddebian> waldo: Or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Strace :-)
<persia> waldo: bddebian's is better :)
<bddebian> persia: Hmm, maybe I'm thinking of the wrong package. Does your current patch on Malone apply?
<persia> bddebian: Yep, and you uploaded it, and I failed to add the required Build-Depends on autotools-dev, and now it FTBFS.  I'm guessing that a newer version (ubuntu3) needs to be uploaded with this addition to fix it.  If this is still not clear (or if it is the wrong hour of the day), I'll just open a new bug fr the FTBFS.
<bddebian> Ahhh
* bddebian is brain-dead at 12:40am :-)
<bddebian> persia: OK, so for ubuntu3, I just need to add autotools-dev to build-deps and that is it?
<persia> bddebian: Hold on: let me confirm again.
<persia> bddebian: Yep.  `sudo apt-get --purge remove autotools-dev` allows me to replicate the buildd failure, and `sudo apt-get install autotools-dev` fixes it.  That should be it.
<persia> bddebian: I'm assuming you're starting from ubuntu2, right?
<bddebian> Yep
<persia> bddebian: Thanks, and apologies for the trouble.
<bddebian> No trouble man, we all make mistakes :-)
<bddebian> I know I certainly do :-)
<waldo> okay for those of you who care, I filed this as bug 43943
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43943 in gnome-nettool "crash w/gnome-nettool w/o arguments" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43943
<bddebian> waldo: We all care :-)
<persia> waldo: You may be able to get more insightful commentary in #ubuntu-bugs.  Today is Hug Day, with a focus certain bugs, but after Hug Day is complete, the people on that channel are usually willing to confirm / fix bugs.
<waldo> hug day?
<waldo> okay..  i'm checking upstream too at gnome
<persia> waldo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Gloubiboulga> g'night bddebian
<Toadstool> hey
<Gloubiboulga> hi Toadstool
* Hobbsee waves from the uni
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee, dholbach
<dholbach> heya motu world
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach and ajmitch
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee, ajmitch
<Gloubiboulga> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga - did Janimo pass the comments about goffice+gnumeric to you?
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, yep, we're discussing this in a query tab, and gnumeric is building here :)
<dholbach> ok super
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, thanks for taking the time to look at this, it's really important for us :)
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> hi zakame
<ajmitch> hi zakame
<zakame> hi Hobbsee ajmitch :D
<Hobbsee> bye all, for a bit...
<Toadstool> hi zakame, Hobbsee, ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hi Toadstool :)
* StevenK waves.
<ajmitch> hello StevenK
* StevenK watches xemacs21 build.
<ajmitch> why would you want to compile that?
<StevenK> Because the version in breezy can't talk on the network.
<zakame> woohoo emacs emacs
<G0SUB> zakame: I have GNU Emacs with XFT ... do you have it in you?
<G0SUB> ;)
<zakame> G0SUB: not yet, just a good ol' emacs22-cvs with xfonts-terminus, nothing too fancy :)
<G0SUB> zakame: http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~ghoseb/emacs-xft/
<\sh> remoins
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> I love opensource, cygwin Xorg installed, and via ssh x11 forwarding I can read and chat from home...how nice
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> hm, no zul
<sivang> \sh: you\re using windows now?
<ajmitch> sivang: what, aren't you?
<sivang> ajmitch: for testing Zend Core for Windows, I have to....:-/
<ajmitch> heh
* sivang cries
<\sh> sivang: sadly yes...company laptop :)
* sivang cheers \sh and joins him in the forced to use windows club
* ajmitch voluntarily installed windows the other day
<\sh> not for long...we will get linux support for our etokens and cisco vpn client :) so next time again with ubuntu :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ogra> guys you really need more self-assertion
<ogra> really
<\sh> actually for many people here the productivity goes down when they're using windows :)
* ajmitch adds it to his network-auth TODO list
<ajmitch> ogra: ?
<ogra> ajmitch, being more forceful to their bosses about linux on the workplace ;)
<ajmitch> oh right :)
<ajmitch> sometimes using windows is necessary
<ajmitch> you can be forceful all you want, but there are things that ubuntu just lacks still
<\sh> ogra: we did that already :) we will get linux on our laptops...most likley Kubuntu ;)
<ogra> ajmitch, necessary ?
<ogra> i didnt have a need for windows since more than 5 years :)
<ajmitch> ogra: yes, like having to run software that is only on windows
<Mithrandir> ogra: Ubuntu doesn't have a good selection of games, for instance.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: one word.  solitare :P
<ogra> Mithrandir, i have an Xbox ;)
<Hobbsee> great for a time waster :P
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: "good selection".
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> ogra: it's a good excuse to work on ubuntu :)
<ogra> Mithrandir, HW paied by MS :)
* Hobbsee is seeing the effects of extra ram in her machine for building things :D
<Mithrandir> ogra: first, I can't stand console controls, second, I generally prefer RTS-es and such, which I don't think there are that many of for the Xbox?
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you should use ccache too
<ogra> no idea, i use the box very seldom (usually only if i have guests :) )
<ogra> so i didnt look beyond the 5 games i bought with it :)
<spacey> there are some fun multiplayer games on the xbox, spongebob, fusion frenzy. great with four people :P
<Whoopie> siretart: did you make a decision if we could sync sensors-applet with debian?
<siretart> Whoopie: I havn't looked into this yet. sorry :(
<phanatic> hi people
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hello Hobbsee
<sivang> hety phanatic
<sivang> Hobbsee:
<phanatic> heya sivang
<Hobbsee> hi sivang
<Whoopie> siretart: ok.
<sivang> hey siretart
<zul> heylo
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> sviang: hey fresh MOTU!
<zakame> *sivang
<zakame> heya persia !
<persia> zakame: Hi.  Were you ever able to compile kdrill without the X11 issues?
<zakame> persia: haven't followed up yet... was a bit busy grokking x11proto myself :)
<persia> No worries.  I should still be around until the weekend, and would be happy to chase it.
<zakame> cool
<sivang> hey zakame , thank you :)
<sivang> zakame: I am very greatful for that, and going to fix bugs and upload stempmain for ubuntu :)
<zakame> sivang: great! :D
<zakame> as for me, I've a bit of X-swat training to do ;)
<zakame> persia: just updated the patch from LP, still builds with lintian errors
<persia> zakame: Do you still see the installs to X11 directories error?  I can fix the others, but I couldn't replicate that one, and don't understand.
<zakame> persia: yep, binary and manpages still go to /usr/X11R6
<zakame> I suppose the extreme solution would be to update DH_COMPAT and aggressively use debhelper, but that would take a while
<persia> zakame: I don't understand.  There must be something else different about our systems.  Are you applying M28810-sed+desktop.patch?  How do you apply it?
<zakame> wget patch; apt-get source kdrill; cd kdrill-6.4; patch -p1 < ../patch; [check it out] ; pdebuild
<persia> zakame: Hmm...  Your process differs from mine in that you use pdebuild, and I use dpkg-buildpackage.  Let me try it with pdebuild, and see if I can replicate your errors.
<sivang> zakame: you are interested in the x-swat ?
<zakame> sivang: I am in the x-swat :) but just a little bug triaging from me, so I need to know more and learn a lot more :)
<zakame> persia: pdebuild and debdiff are quite wonderful since they do their operations on pristine sources; but I suppose they're not the problem
<zakame> looking at debian/rules now I'd say we'd need a lot of additional  cps there in lieu of dh_movefiles or dh_install
<persia> zakame: What?  I manually changed all the debhelper hints (that's all the little changes in the package), and there's the sed line for the Makefile.  There's really nowhere else there should be X11 stuff.  Hold on whilst I get a pbuilder working, and I'll track it down against pdebuild.
<zakame> hm, strange indeed
<persia> debootstrap takes a while, even with ethernet to the mirror :(
<zakame> just for clarification, I got the patch dated 2006-05-09 10:18:24 PHT
<zakame> there is another patch with the same name dated 2006-05-09 10:12:00 PHT , but I didn't use that
<persia> zakame: That one is all sorts of broken, for reasons I don't understand.  I think I didn't have a sufficiently clean build tree when running debdiff.  The one you want should be 10:17 PHT.
<zakame> persia: yes that is what I used
<persia> zakame: I'm not going to be able to replicate it :(  `sudo pbuilder create dies due to broken debootstrap [W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/21645/. dpkg --force-depends --install var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.3.6-0ubuntu17_amd64.deb; pbuilder: debootstrap failed] 
<zakame> gaah :(
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi bddebian
<ajmitch> bye bddebian
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch, bye ajmitch :-)
<persia> zakame: I found the problem.  It appears that I inadvertently left the patch for 28707 applied on my system.  I'll revert, and fix kdrill for real this time.  I don't suppose you know how to fix debootstrap?  I'd like to test more with pdebuild (I missed a build-depends this morning).
<zakame> hi bddebian !
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<persia> Good morning bddebian.
<bddebian> Morning persia
<zakame> persia: not if it involves fixing the debootstrap suite builder scripts :( either that, or you were building in the middle of an archive push
* persia tries again to see if it was just bad timing
<ajayc> hi guys
<ajayc> how do i become a serious contributor?
<persia> debootstrap is unhappy today.  It's not just timing: it really doesn't like libc6 for some reason :(
<persia> ajayc: I'm not a member of any teams, but I'd recommend starting by fixing bugs in Malone.  You can attach patches to the bugs, and this will allow you to become familiar with the Ubuntu processes.
<ajayc> ok
<persia> ajayc: It's Hug Day today, where we fix certain types of bugs.  Head over to #ubuntu-bugs: the topic has a few good links to start chasing Malone.
<ajayc> cool
<Hobbsee> ack.  i almost deleted my entire home directory by accident.
<Hobbsee> hmm...10 more debdiffs to upload...
<Hobbsee> zakame: you around?
<salgado> hi there
<salgado> quick question: I renamed a package from python-pylib to python-codespeak-lib. I guess I need to upload a new version of the python-pylib with something to tell users that it was replaced by python-codespeak-lib?
<kgoetz> hi
<kgoetz> some sort of transition package? i'd suppose yes considering how many isee
<bddebian> salgado: Ahh so you are the cause of my recent pain :-)
<kgoetz> lol.
<kgoetz> bddebian: is that the pacakge we looked at?
<persia> salgado: Your transition package needs to Depend on the new package, and the new package should both Conflict and Replace previous versions of the old package name.
<bddebian> kgoetz: Yep
<bddebian> salgado: Yes as persia says
<kgoetz> lol. thought it was familiar sounding
<salgado> persia, right, the new one already conflict and replace the previous one, so I just need to make the old one depend on the new
<salgado> thanks, persia!
<persia> salgado: No problems.  I like smooth transitions :)
<persia> salgado: Make sure to note in the description (in debian/control) that this is a transitional dummy package.  Most users hunt these using one of these terms, and it's nice to have both there.
<salgado> yeah, good point, persia. I'll do that
<Hobbsee> night all...
<persia> zakame: I found the issue with kdrill.  It rebuilds the Makefile within the Makefile (annoying), so patching the Makefile is somewhat useless :(.  I believe that getting sed to stop this behaviour would be invasive and confusing, and will instead just edit the actual files.
<salgado> persia, how can I test that the transition package will actually work as I expect? I mean, I don't know how to tell apt-get to install it (while it's not in the archive) and dpkg won't install dependencies
<persia> salgado: I think gdebi is what you want.  Hold on whilst I check...
<persia> salgado: Yep.  debi doesn't do that: you need to use gdebi.  The syntax is of the form `sudo gdebi <pkg>.deb`
<salgado> ahh, that's great. thanks again, persia
<bddebian> Can anyone help me with WTF this is doing?
<bddebian> AC_TRY_COMPILE(#include <db_cxx.h>
<bddebian>   ,int cf(DB *, const DBT *, const DBT *); Db db(NULL, 0); db.set_dup_compare(cf);,
<bddebian>           [ bdb_version=">=3.2"] ,
<bddebian>           [ bdb_version="3"] 
<Mithrandir> bddebian: tries to determine version of bdb?
<persia> bddebian: Could you point me to context?
<bddebian> Mithrandir: I know but what exactly is it doing?
<bddebian> persia: That's in the xsim package
<persia> bddebian: Most of the AC_TRY things just do a small compilation to demonstrate the ability to link to the given library.
<bddebian> But bdb is 4.4 now and it always comes back from that line as 3 and it shouldn't
<Mithrandir> bddebian: tries to compile that C code and sets bdb_version to >= 3.2 if it works, 3 if not.
<bddebian> Mithrandir: How could I easily reproduce the functionality to actually see what it is returning?
<Mithrandir> bddebian: look at configure?
<bddebian> Just a quick .c program with that?
<bddebian> Mithrandir: configure just gives me 3.2 or 3 I want the actual result
<Mithrandir> bddebian: read configure, don't run it.
<persia> bddebian: run `autoconf`. then `less configure`
<bddebian> Oh, idiot, now I remember the problem
<bddebian> libdb3 is installed
<Tonio_> ji
<Tonio_> hi
<\sh> grmpf
<Tonio_> \sh: a problem ? :)
<\sh> I have a i386 boot kernel on an amd64 machine...now Im creating an amd64 chroot system...chroot /chrootdir /bin/bash is working..but now I have still i386 as os.uname and I need the real architecture...
<bddebian> Heya Tonio_, \sh
<\sh> now...how can I say the changeroot to use another kernel uname
<\sh> I knew I read it before, but I forget where
<Tonio_> hi bddebian
<Tonio_> \sh: I must say I never used amd64 machines so I really don't know
<\sh> I'll ask someone in -deve
<bddebian> How can I pull just the .deb from the archive without installing?  apt-get -d says it's already installed :-(
<persia> bddebian: aptitude is nicer.  Try `aptitude download foo`.
<Gloubiboulga> or apt-get -d --reinstall :)
<persia> Gloubiboulga: For this, aptitude uses less characters.  Of course, aptitude doesn't have source or build-dep options...
<bddebian> persia: That did it, thanks
* sivang wonders about when conference sponserships will be announced.
<Gloubiboulga> persia, I've used apt-get so many times that it's hard to switch to aptitude now
<bddebian> Gloubiboulga: Amen brother :-)
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<bddebian> Does this logic:  Depends: libkbanking1 (= ${Source-Version})  use the upstream source version?  I'm assuming yes.  If so, what's the best way to handle that with buildX or ubuntuX revisions?
<azeem> no, Source-Version is what is in debian/changelog
<azeem> are buildX revisions uploaded as proper source packages?
<bddebian> Hmm, weird.  kbanking was rebuild (build1 revision) but libkbanking-dev is complaining because it wants libkbanking1 (= 0.9.9-1) when the package is 0.9.9-1build1 ?
<bddebian> azeem: Oh, that I don't know
<azeem> if buildX is a similir binNMU mechanism as on Debian, it means kbanking is not binNMU-safe
<azeem> or rather buildX-safe ;)
<bddebian> I suppose an ugly hack would be Depends: libkbanking1 (= ${Source-Version}) libkbanking1 (<< 1.0.0) ?
<bddebian> heh
<azeem> I don't think that would work either
<bddebian> Err >= Source-version
<azeem> that would, yes
<azeem> or maybe (<< 0.9.9-2)
<phanatic> sivang: ping
<sivang> phanatic: pong
<sivang> re all
<phanatic> sivang: any news?
<sivang> phanatic: not that I know of :)
<phanatic> sivang: they said this week, so i'm not impatient :)
<sivang> phanatic: heh, right good point :)
<bddebian> siretart: ping?
<siretart> bddebian: pong
<bddebian> siretart: I don't quite understand your comment about manderlbot?
<bddebian> Bug #41551
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41551 in manderlbot "[UNMETDEPS]  manderlbot has unmet dependencies" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41551
<siretart> bddebian: err, did you read debian #337419
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 337419 in manderlbot "Subject: manderlbot: Uninstallabe due to unavailable dep libxmerl-erlang" [Grave,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/337419
<siretart> bddebian: that bug describes what need to be done to fix the package
<bddebian> siretart: Nope :-(
* bddebian feels stupid as usual
<bddebian> Though I don't understand the Debian bug comment either.  What is in need of a patch??
<siretart> bddebian: manderbrot needs libxmerl-erlang, which was removed from debian (and from ubuntu as well)
<bddebian> siretart: Not anymore :-)
<siretart> bddebian: oh? then I misunderstood sth
<bddebian> siretart: I meant what needed patching but I get it now.  Though it's funny because it includes it's own copies of xmerl.hrl and xmerl_xlink.hrl :)
<siretart> bddebian: as I understand it, this unmet dep is the same bug as in debian. perhaps we can talk to the debian maintainer for advice? he should fix it in debian anyway
<bddebian> docbook2man manderlbot.1.sgml >/dev/null 2>&1
<bddebian> lyx -e latex manderlbot.lyx
<bddebian> make[2] : lyx: Command not found
<Spec> lynx
<Spec> what's lyx?
<azeem> Description: High Level Word Processor
<Spec> ah
<Spec> hey, today is breezy day
<Spec> 5-10
<bddebian> So is lyx broken or is this package doing the wrong thing?
<lucas> are there some plans to get vim7 in dapper ?
<tseng> not that I know of
<tseng> seems unlikely
<tseng> its vim..
<tseng> vi has been around since the begining of time
<lucas> and ? ;)
<tseng> and, a new release isnt anything that gets me hot and bothered
<lucas> that's probably because you are not using it :)
<tseng> vim 6 works well enough
<jamessan> I'm working on getting the vim7 package into Debian. there are some packaging changes we have to make before we upload
<lucas> i'll try to work on a backport when it'll be available in debian
<tseng> you can talk someone into syncing it, maybe
* torkel has been a good(?!) citizen and filed an UVF exception request on openafs
<LaserJock> bddebian: I get lyx-qt as the binary
<bddebian> LaserJock: That's a different binary and requires X
<LaserJock> lyx should require X
<LaserJock> it is a GUI app
<LaserJock> or am I missing something
<tseng> er?
<bddebian> lyx-qt is a gui app.  lyx shouldn't be :-)
<tseng> oh, lyx isnt yet another links,lynx,elinks
<tseng> carry on
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> tseng: right, it is a GUI editor for TeX
<tseng> yes i see that
<bddebian> Where do menu files get installed?
<ogra> bddebian, lyx always was a gui app ...
<LaserJock> bddebian: I don't think there should only be a lyx-qt binary
<LaserJock> bddebian: I mean a different binary
<LaserJock> lyx-qt is right
<bddebian> Then why is a package trying to do this:  lyx -e ps
<LaserJock> bddebian: it shouldn't, I would guess
<bddebian> OK, so what SHOULD it be doing? :-)
<LaserJock> or lyx should provide a symlink from lyx to lyx-qt or lyx-xforms
<LaserJock> lyx is a meta package that install lyx-common and then either the qt or xforms frontend
<bddebian> Yes and lyx-common provides a few binaries itself. Such as reLyX
<LaserJock> so I think right now there is no lyx binary
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> and perhaps at one point the frontends weren't split and so it was just called lyx, I'm not sure
<tseng> oops, xubuntu-desktop is uninstallable
<LaserJock> hmm, that's not good
<Gloubiboulga> ?
<Gloubiboulga> what's the problem tseng
<tseng> The following packages have unmet dependencies: xubuntu-desktop: Depends: libgoffice-gtk-1-2 but it is not going to be installed
<tseng> elkbuntu: Broken packages
<tseng> elkbuntu: sorry, irssi sucks
<bddebian> Eeks
<tseng> wth is that package, anyway
<tseng> gtk1.2?
<tseng> comeon
<plugwash> tsend try adding libgoffice-gtk-1-2, you'll generally get a more meaningfull error that way
<Gloubiboulga> tseng, do you have libgoffice-1-2 installed?
<tseng> Gloubiboulga: no.
<tseng> looks like i can install it ok
<tseng> which brings us to:
<tseng>  xubuntu-desktop: Depends: abiword-plugins but it is not going to be installed
<Gloubiboulga> ah ok, I see
<tseng> i dont really want to install 50 things
<tseng> oh
<tseng> its circular
<Gloubiboulga> abiword-plugins still depends on libgoffice-1-2, which conflicts with libgoffice-gtk-1-2
<tseng> installing abiword-plugins removes libgoffice-gtk-1-2
<tseng> yes
<tseng> sold for $1
<Gloubiboulga> rebuilding abiword should fix this since it will then depend on libgoffice | libgoffice-gtk
<tseng> ok thanks
<sivang> ogra: what is the purpose of the 'MOTU' team in LP ? I see I cannot even propose myself there :)
<sivang> (besides ubuntu-dev, that is)
<LaserJock> sivang: I believe it was used for bug reports initially, or something like that
<tseng> it was for bugs
<tseng> or is
<crimsun> sivang: it's prehistoric; ignore it
<crimsun> sivang: the one that matters is ubuntu-dev
<tseng> prehistoric is bugzilla :)
<tseng> RESOLVED UNIVERSE GO AWAY
<bddebian> ugh
<tseng> i was a fan of that
<sivang> crimsun: heh, k cool guys
<crimsun> if a main uploader would please apply http://www.sh.nu/~crimsun/alsa-lib_1.0.10-2ubuntu4.debdiff and upload, it would be much appreciated.
<sivang> crimsun: I want to make a fix upload of hubackup, I dch -i which bumped the version from 0.0.1 to 0.0.2 (since this is a native package I reckon that's okay) and now I want to upload, what do I configure in dput.cf to do so?
<crimsun> sivang: you don't need to add anything, actually. Just use:
<crimsun> dput ubuntu lalala_source.changes
<crimsun> sivang: and yes, since it's native, 0.0.2 is correct
<sivang> crimsun: one more thing to be sure of, how do I know that the package goes to universe and not main ? (I know there is the overrides mechanism, so does it even matter what I specify as the section?)
<crimsun> sivang: the Section is helpful, but the overrides are stored server-side.
<crimsun> sivang: since it's already in universe, it won't go anywhere else unless explicitly moved by an archive admin
<crimsun> sivang: $ apt-cache madison hubackup
<sivang> crimsun: thanks :)
<crimsun> sivang: np
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-16
<zul> heylo
<LaserJock> hi zul
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
(crimsun/#ubuntu-motu) bddebian: do you mind uploading http://sh.nu/~crimsun/uploads/* if you get a chance, please?
<bddebian> alsa-tools isn't main?
<crimsun> no, it's very much universe.
<bddebian> OK, give me a sec
<bddebian> Hmm, can I just dput your .changes file or is it going to expect my key?
<crimsun> you can, but hold a sec, please
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's best to re-sign them with debsign
<ajmitch> well it's best to always review, build & check what you're uploading, too ;)
<ajmitch> though I think we can probably trust crimsun by now
<bddebian> I would trust crimsun over myself d00d :-)
<crimsun> I love how I keep triggering these corner cases in qprocd
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> You're special :-)
<zakame> hi all
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> hi bddebian ! :D
<crimsun> yeah, for values of 'special' that mean "ARGH"
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> yay, spethial
<bddebian> No, that's me :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<Hobbsee> hi everyone
<dholbach> good morning motu world
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> dholbach: you busy at all?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: yes - dapper status update meeting in 15
<Hobbsee> dholbach: gotcha. i'm looking for someone to do some uploading for me again :)
<dholbach> Hobbsee: you got a question?
<dholbach> pass me the links to stuff I'll do it later, if nobody else did it
<Hobbsee> okay...i might poke zakame about it :)
<crimsun> I'd upload them, but apparently uploads are broken for me yet _again_
<Hobbsee> :(
<Hobbsee> hehe welcome back dholbach
<imbrandon> wb dholbach ;)
<imbrandon> heya crimsun
<dholbach> hey crimsun, hey imbrandon
<dholbach> Hobbsee: If you could PM the links to me?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: they're sitting on my hard drive.  i can email them to you if you like..
<dholbach> Hobbsee: ok, sounds cool.
<Hobbsee> otherwise i'll find someone else to upload, if you're a bit busy...
<Hobbsee> dholbach@ubuntu.com?
<dholbach> yes
<Hobbsee> gotcha
<Hobbsee> dholbach: let me format my hard drive first, and reinstall.  then i'll email them.  IIRC, there are about 10 - i try to send them to people in reasonable blocks
<dholbach> hu?! why reinstall?
<dholbach> you seem to be reinstalling a lot, no?
<Hobbsee> no...i havent reinstalled since about january...
<Hobbsee> got so much dev stuff on my machine, and i've discovered that i can build with a pbuider on my home dir...which means that i might not run out of space so quickly...
<dholbach> ok
<Hobbsee> pre-edgy stuff :P
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i seem to have a slight problem with only a 40 gb hard drive...
<Hobbsee> and >=2 OS' on it
<dholbach> Hobbsee: ok, I see.
<Hobbsee> :P
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: buy an external USB2 drive?  They're not that expensive last time I checked.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: true...that does require me taking it wherever i happen to go though...
<Mithrandir> or just chuck media , etc on it?
<Hobbsee> machine's gotten so slow for some reason...
<Hobbsee> true...could do that
<Mithrandir> so you won't _have_ to, but you might want to
<Hobbsee> true...
<Hobbsee> dholbach: @ the meeting - and add your screenshot/blog to ubotu...
<Hobbsee> in the upgrade link
<dholbach> ubotu? #ubuntu bot?
<dholbach> I'll talk to Seveas about that
<Hobbsee> dholbach: anyone can add to the bot...
<Hobbsee> but yes, Ubotu
<ogra> Hobbsee, dont say that to loud ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> hehe
<Hobbsee> ogra: i know :P i dont :P
<ogra> :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: then again, most wonderful people who add rubbish to the bot dont read -motu
<ogra> heh, true
<Hobbsee> stupid question - how many flights are we having?
<imbrandon> heh 26
<imbrandon> maybe 27
<imbrandon> ;) j/k
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> probbly only one more considering its less than a month to release
<imbrandon> thats just a guess though
<Hobbsee> they're talking about a flight 8 in the meeting, hence the question
<imbrandon> ahh
* imbrandon wants to listen
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: /j ubuntu-meeting
<Hobbsee> just dont talk :P
<Hobbsee> they're very busy
<imbrandon> yea i'll behave promis ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: also, kubuntu meeting in just over 12 hours, if you're interested
<imbrandon> yea i'd be more interested in kubuntu
* Hobbsee hopes it will be better than the last one
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that one that's there now is a status update meeting - of interest is riddell's stuff for kde...and the other stuff can be useful too...
<imbrandon> yea *qt4* w00t
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> man it takes a while to bz2-ify the entire home dir...
<imbrandon> lol yea
<imbrandon> i just cp it to a nfs share , i dont worry about taring it up
<imbrandon> thats just me though
<imbrandon> i should setup a rsync backup or something for a regular backup
<imbrandon> just been lazy the last week or so
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i dont usually backup
<Hobbsee> unless i intend to reformat
* imbrandon needs to take the steps to become a (k)ubuntu member , I've done most of it already
<Hobbsee> grrr...wish i had a remote way to turn on a computer...
<siretart> morning motus!
<imbrandon> they make telnet-able power switches but that dosent help you now
<siretart> qt4?
<imbrandon> morning siretart
<siretart> heyho imbrandon
<imbrandon> yea just waiting on something from upstream to fix a few ( ok alot ) of qt4 bugs riddell said
<imbrandon> last night
<imbrandon> i think a sync for 4.1.2 ?? dont quote me
<siretart> imbrandon: look in malone, Riddell already requested a sync from unstable
<Riddell> I don't know how often those sync happen
* imbrandon has no clue either
<siretart> Riddell: I think it has to do with poking the ubuntu-archive team members. there about 40 open syncs the last time I looked there
<siretart> chninkel: around?
<siretart> chninkel: since your last package, this is the debdiff
<siretart> chninkel: http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=2320&upid2=2326
<siretart> chninkel: what are these *.cmd files? They look like cruft to me
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> hi siretart
<persia> siretart: Is there a reason OpenAL defaults to OSS?  Alternatives have been posted to a bug: it seems worthwhile to migrate to SDL or ALSA.
<siretart> persia: as I understand it, upstream is quite overworked
<siretart> persia: there are in fact 3 openal implementations: the creative (windows centric) one, the apple (macos centric) one, and the loki rooted one, sometimes called 'portable'
<siretart> persia: portable was recently (like in, last week) renamed to OpenAL-Sample
<persia> siretart: Upstream supports it: it's a configuration adjustment.  I'll upload a patch to bug #5362 to implement Vytas' suggestion for your review.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 5362 in torcs "Torcs crashed (because it has no sound?)" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5362
<siretart> persia: since Loki is dead, there are only 2 or 3 ppl working on the portable tree
<siretart> persia: sven already said that he is willing to change the default on linux to alsa and keep oss for the bsd variants
<siretart> persia: until then, we can perhaps install a config file in /etc to use alsa
<siretart> but I havn't looked into this yet
<persia> siretart: OK.  I'll assign to you once I put up a patch?
<siretart> persia: yes please. this way it shows up on my list
<persia> siretart: Thank you.
<imbrandon> dholbach, i use kpilot ( but can test gnome stuff if needed  )
<dholbach> imbrandon: I'll try to get gnome-pilot new tarball rolled into a package to see how that works for us
<ajmitch> evening
<imbrandon> kk dholbach i got all the hardware so if you need a guinie pig ;)
<dholbach> Thanks a lot!
<ajmitch> ah, missed the status meeting
<ajmitch> a shame
<Mithrandir> hiya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi Mithrandir
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<Mithrandir> fine, setting up a test environment for casper since I get to play with that today.
<ajmitch> ah, good to see some things coming through NEW
<persia> If I put a file in /etc, and I don't want people to edit it unless they know what they are doing, I should mark it a conffile, right?
<siretart> right
<TomaszD> hello, how can I make a "diffstat" ?
<TomaszD> nevermind, I've cracked it myself
<TomaszD> you do this on purpose don't you. Wait it out until someone figures it out for himself.
<TomaszD> :)
<freeflying> TomaszD:  diff -ruN oldsource newsource | diffstat > outputfile
<TomaszD> freeflying, yeah I did it very similarly, documentation is quite good
<TomaszD> thanks anyway, this makes it shorter
<Hobbsee> why oh why does ndiswrapper hate me today????
* Hobbsee goes off to investigate
<Hobbsee> how odd.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: sending now
<dholbach> Hobbsee: super
<Toadstool> hi MOTUs
<Hobbsee> dholbach: you should have it :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian :)
<Hobbsee> hey...that sound is in tune!  it's not flat!!!!
<Hobbsee> yay!
<`6og> hehe.
<`6og> took you a while :D
<Hobbsee> mostly.  how odd.
<zakame> hi all
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> hi bddebian
<tuxmaniac> bddebian:
<bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> Hi
<tuxmaniac> Hey can apt-get update not work saying command not found? What could be the reason.. Sudo included.. One of my friends is facing this problem!
<tuxmaniac> sudo
<bddebian> Is apt installed? :-)
<tuxmaniac> yes bddebian
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: What's the exact error?
<tuxmaniac> It seems Command not found :)
<bddebian> For apt-get?
<tuxmaniac> yes
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: :)) That idiot copied line numbers from pastebin into sources.list file
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: :)) Sorry for the stupid disturbance!
<bddebian> :-)
<trappist> what are the odds that a new package would be uploaded with the patch that triggered the upload not applied, *twice*?
<trappist> debdiff sometimes only diffs the changelog for me - I wonder if it's a bug in the packaging tools
<azeem> non-zero
<trappist> bug #41207
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41207 in libast "Eterm built against libast on amd64 has its buffer filled with garbage" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41207
<Kyral> hey motuish people
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
<Kyral> Hello HURDFreak :P
<bddebian> heh
<nomed> hi all
<nomed> Riddell, i've seen in SOC2006 wiki page ..
<nomed> Kat Desktop Search Environment
<nomed> would u be interested on having Recoll too ?
<Riddell> I didn't add the Kat entry
<Riddell> what's recoll?
<nomed> Riddell, http://www.lesbonscomptes.com/recoll/devel.html
<nomed> it is based on xapian ..
<nomed> instead of mono stuff ..
<nomed> xapian depends just on c++
<nomed> and it may be of some interest even for
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2006#head-e2fba1deba799ae550e9afe765e57b7a5019f1f8
<nomed> i'm asking this as i have xapian pkges on revu ..
<nomed> but i hadn't time to fix them ..
<nomed> xapian devel is now at #xubuntu ..
<nomed> and he told me xapian will be in etch soon
<nomed> i'd like to know if it's possible to get those pkge un dapper universe ..
<nomed> so i'll spend some time on that this evening
<nomed> i even think it would be nice to have them in ..
<nomed> as soc2006 devel apps ..
<nomed> so mainly the question are ..
<nomed> am i going to throw my time on pkging  that stuff ?
<nomed> should i pkge recoll too ?
<MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
<bddebian> Hello MacSlow
<MacSlow> I have an "issue" -> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=173760 and would like to provide help (my customly done .debs) for the mentioned packages... namely gtkglext-1.2.0, gtkglextmm-1.2.0 and glew-1.3.4
<persia> MacSlow: Open UVF exception requests in Malone with your patches.  A description of the process can be found from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html.
<MacSlow> persia, thx... looking into that now
<MacSlow> persia, btw... uvf abbreviates what?
<persia> MacSlow: Upstream Version Freeze.  For a period of time right before a release (like now), there is a freeze on new upstream versions, as it is typically easier to ensure fewer bugs by patching the existing version than by upgrading (and possibly introducing new bugs).  Search the Wiki for Release Process for more information.
<Whoopie> Hi, although really OT, I hope you can help me: I'd like to listen to the HAL ButtonPressed events with a script and then launch another script. I don't find any docu or examples. Could you give me a hint?
<ogra> man dbus-monitor ?
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if people ever get banned from *lists.ubuntu.com
<trappist> hopefully the admins reserve the right, but I haven't seen a lot of posts that just beg for a ban
<trappist> LaserJock: could I talk you into taking a look at bug #41207
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41207 in libast "Eterm built against libast on amd64 has its buffer filled with garbage" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41207
<LaserJock> trappist: what about it
<trappist> LaserJock: I wonder if it's related to my occasional problem where debdiff only diffs the changelog - here apparently only the changelog is getting patched
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> zul: around?
<zul> LaserJock: kind of
<LaserJock> zul: trappist says that the latest libast upload had a changed changelog and that was it
<trappist> and the upload before it :)
<zul> i didnt touch libast all i touched was eterm
<trappist> yeah eterm doesn't need a patch, just built against a patched libast
<zul> is there a patch send it to me and ill fix it otnight
<trappist> zul: not for eterm, but the libast patch is attached to bug #41207
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41207 in libast "Eterm built against libast on amd64 has its buffer filled with garbage" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41207
<zul> ok..
<zul> ill do it tonight when i get home
<LaserJock> zul: great, thanks dude
<trappist> awesome, thanks
* trappist suspects he's the only guy in the whole ubuntu world who uses eterm
<bddebian> hehe
<trappist> if I knew how to make konsole transparent, borderless and decorationless I'd switch
<LaserJock> trappist: in my Gentoo days I used eterm quite a bit
<LaserJock> trappist: oh, that's not too hard
<LaserJock> trappist: gnome-terminal would be much more difficult
<bddebian> Heya highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey mr dennis!
<bddebian> Mr Dennis?
<highvoltage> bddebian: sorry, mr Barry!
<bddebian> heh :-)
<LaserJock> Dennis, Barry, same thing ;-)
<highvoltage> occasionally i think you're dennis kaarsemaker. have no idea why though :)
<bddebian> Show's how much I'm loved ;-P
<highvoltage> bddebian: i'm not a huggy person, you can check through the logs i never hug anyone.. but
* highvoltage hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> heh
<ivoks> bddebian: remeber the time when you said no one likes you? :)
<bddebian> ivoks: Just the main folks :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you can also sign the fan page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod
<bddebian> Stop that
<persia> Could anyone point me to a good reference on trapping thrown exceptions in C++?
<ivoks> bddebian: main guys like no one :)
<bddebian> :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: i've signed the Bddebianisagod page AGES ago!
* highvoltage checks the history
<ivoks> there, i said it :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: doh, I see you now
<highvoltage> hehe: last edited 2005-10-13 14:26:27 by JonathanCarter
<ivoks> last edited 2006-05-11 18:57:20 by AnteKaramatic
<ivoks> :)
<highvoltage> :)
<ivoks> now it's fresh :)
<ivoks> time to go...
<ivoks> see you guys
<bddebian> WTF? :-)
<bddebian> Later ivoks
<highvoltage> cheers ivoks
<LaserJock> last edited 05/11/2006 08:58:42 AM by JordanMantha
<bddebian> Sick people
<LaserJock> bddebian: we have to have a hero, that Mark dude is a slave driver ;-)
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> I managed to snag a dedicated Ubuntu box at the lab yesterday
<LaserJock> our postdoc who just left left a 1.3Ghz P4 with 256MB Rambus RAM and a 20GB hard drive :-)
<LaserJock> the start of my pbuilder farm ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<siretart> hi folks
<siretart> no back to my UVF backlog (its way too big :( )
<dholbach> :-/
<dholbach> yeah
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<bddebian> Yeah, you and dholbach get to work.. ;-P
<dholbach> pffft
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> I just gave you a few more today :-)
<bddebian> Hoary is no longer officially supported correct?
<azeem> warty got EOL'd, but not hoary, AFAIK
<persia> bddebian: I thought it was 18 months, so finishing this September.
<bddebian> Ah, hmm
<LaserJock> I really wonder what officially supported means
<siretart> LaserJock: supported by canonical. and only packages in 'main'
<LaserJock> siretart: but what does supported mean? Sorry for the newb question.
<LaserJock> Does that mean they stop doing security and updates?
<siretart> LaserJock: I think this includes stopping uploading anything to $dist-{security,updates,backports}
<siretart> LaserJock: at some point, I think this will include also dropping the dist from the archive. but I don't know when excatly
<LaserJock> hmm, ok.
<LaserJock> dang, 39 bugs assigned to motu-uvf
<dholbach> LaserJock: and 1348 mails in my uvf box
<dholbach> just so you guys know, how much siretart and slomo do for you guys :-)
<LaserJock> dholbach: oh my goodness
<LaserJock> you guys rock for sure
<LaserJock> dholbach: do you think it has been helpful to do it this way via LP?
<dantje> hi there
<dholbach> LaserJock: yes
<dholbach> LaserJock: we finally have an overview
<LaserJock> great, from my end it has been great
<LaserJock> hi dantje
<bddebian> dholbach: pfft, pittence
* bddebian hugs dholbach, siretart, slomo
<Tonio_> hello
<dholbach> hey Tonio_!
<Tonio_> hey dholbach ;) we didn't have a lot of time to speak during linuxtag.... :)
<Tonio_> dholbach: will you be in paris in june ?
<dholbach> yeah - next time :-)
* dholbach hugs Tonio_
<dholbach> Tonio_: sure will! :)
<Tonio_> dholbach: then it'll be easier ;)
<dholbach> super :)
<dholbach> I look forward to it
<Tonio_> hehe, me too
<Tonio_> it'll be my latest month in paris
<LaserJock> bddebian: maybe we should rename your wiki page to MotuUvfIsGod ;-)
* bipolar comes in to whine about qt4 again....
<LaserJock> no whinning in here, only fixing :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Good plan :-)
<dantje> I'd like to do some small bug fixing and coding for ubuntu (or open source projects in general) -- where do I start?
<bipolar> LaserJock: bddebian :D
<siretart> some requests really eat up enormous time to process
<Spec> dantje: a goo dplace to start is in #ubuntu-bugs
<LaserJock> dantje: well, this channel is great for learning how to package and get stuff into Universe
<siretart> I wonder if we should think about restricting these requests to devs only.. :/
<bipolar> do we have "permission" to upgrade qt4 in dapper?
<Spec> dantje: there's also lots of bug-related information is available on the wiki
<siretart> bipolar: look in malone, there is a bug about that with current status
<bipolar> siretart: the ones I found have no data about upgrades, just asking for it.
<bipolar> ahh.. there is a new
<bipolar>  one
<siretart> bipolar: Riddell already requested a sync. we are waiting for the archive team
<bipolar> thanks guys :)
* bipolar returns to lurker mode
<LaserJock> siretart: I can imagine that the UVFe requests take a long time, but I think Dapper will be greater for it. Thanks for the work!
<siretart> LaserJock: :)
<bipolar> yeah... quite a few bugs in 4.1.0
<siretart> and it makes the lastfm package work!
<siretart> :)
<bipolar> heh
<siretart> thats bug #43693, btw
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43693 in qt4-x11 "UVF exception for qt 4.1.2" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43693
<zul> wouldnt that affect kubuntu?
<bipolar> now if only the mysql server package supported ssl.... :P
<bipolar> zul: no. kde is built on qt3, not qt4
<bipolar> zul: when KDE 4 comes, it will use qt4. it's going to rock too
<LaserJock> bipolar: is there any idea of a release date for KDE 4?
<bipolar> LaserJock: let me see....
<LaserJock> lol, ubugtu just /msged me to tell me that there is not Bug no. 4 in KDE :-)
<bipolar> me too
<bddebian> It would be damn nice if we have a Universe dedicated archive admin
<siretart> bddebian: no. that would be only extra work, which we should put in the universe itself
<bipolar> wikipedia says early 2007 for release of kde4
<bddebian> siretart: ??
<siretart> bddebian: archive maintenance isn't that much fun. if you want to learn, I'd suggest playing around with dak. I cannot imagine that launchpad is more fun
<siretart> bddebian: there is however a launchpad spec for SyncSources. That would be fun if we had that!
<zul> bddebian = BOFH
<zul> :)
<LaserJock> so maybe we need a BddebianForUniverseArchiveAdmin petition ;-)
* highvoltage doesn't understand what it means, but would sign it
* highvoltage would sign anything with the name bddebian on it :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<bddebian> Gah
<bddebian> siretart: I have an archive box running here at my office
<bddebian> It just seems that most people that are fairly involved with main put universe sync and UVF requests at a lower priority (Which makes sense of course).
<siretart> bddebian: what archive software are you using? reprepro? dak?
<bddebian> I was using reprepro
<alexr> siretart: Hi, I'm one of the co-developers of gramps
<siretart> hey alexr
<Spec> What is archive maintenance?
<alexr> If you guys package 2.0.11 and want testing, please let our users know about the package.
<bddebian> Spec: Adding/removing/etc packages from the archive
<alexr> siretart: We have a lot of ubuntu users and they can try your package before it is released.
<Spec> like a deb repository?
<siretart> alexr: cool. good to hear
<siretart> alexr: do you know carsten, the person who requested this exception?
<alexr> siretart: he came to our #gramps channel a couple of times.
<alexr> siretart: why?
<siretart> alexr: do you know if he has the package already prepared?
<siretart> alexr: or can you perhaps prepare a test package?
<alexr> siretart: we do.
<alexr> siretart: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gramps/gramps_2.0.11-2ubuntu_all.deb?download
<bddebian> Spec: Exactly
<alexr> siretart: this is all on the bug page.
<Spec> How does dak and reprepro compare with mini-dinstall?
<alexr> siretart: taking the 2.0.9 ubuntu source and re-using debian dir works just fine with one change:
<alexr> man page moved from doc to doc/man
<alexr> siretart: and this is also on the bug page.
<alexr> siretart: I think I put everything there.
<siretart> alexr: cool. do you know how to upload to revu?
<LaserJock> Spec: apt-cache show mini-dinstall :-)
<siretart> or hm..
<alexr> siretart: have no idea what this is.
<siretart> alexr: ok. no problem
<siretart> alexr: I need a source package, you pointed me to a binary package what I cannot review
<alexr> siretart: I can get you a source package later today.
<alexr> I don't have an ubuntu system myself.
<siretart> alexr: it would really help us if you could attach an updated source package to bug #42270, so that we can review the changes
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42270 in gramps "Upstream Version Freeze exception for 2.0.11" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42270
<siretart> chninkel: around?
<alexr> siretart: so do you want 3 files as a source package?
<alexr> siretart: orig, ubuntu.diff, and ubuntu.dsc?
<Spec> LaserJock: i've read that, ?
<siretart> alexr: right. that 3 files make a debian source package
<siretart> alexr: the orig should be byte identical to the 'regular' upstream release (sometime also called 'pristine')
<alexr> siretart: I know, I'm a debian guy
<alexr> siretart: just was not sure what you want attached.
<siretart> ok
<alexr> I'll try to get it attached in about 10 hours, maybe less.
<alexr> siretart: so would you take it from that point on?
<Spec> LaserJock: ah, so dak >> mini-dinstall, in scale
<siretart> alexr: I still have tons of other requests, but whoever will work on that request, such a package will surely help to prepare an upload
<siretart> alexr: I currently still have about 100 uvf request mails to process :(
<alexr> siretart: sorry, won't take up more of your time.
<alexr> siretart: thanks
<siretart> alexr: you're welcome
<LaserJock> siretart: bug #6266 was turned into a UVF request, would you rather have a new bug?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6266 in xcircuit "UVF Exception: xcircuit" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6266
<siretart> LaserJock: this xcircuit thing is really confusing me. this looks rather like an update requiring an uvf exception to me
<LaserJock> yes, the new Upstream version that tuxmaniac has packaged fixes many bugs
<LaserJock> and so we are asking for a UVFe for it
<LaserJock> so tuxmaniac is going to provide the diffstat and changelog, but bddebian changed the bug into a UVFe request
<LaserJock> siretart: would a link to the package on REVU help?
<bddebian> I linked REVU
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> ah, I see it, doh
<LaserJock> and my pbuilder farm isn't up and running yet ;(
<LaserJock> the livecd doesn't work so well on 256MB of RAM, or maybe it just is reeeealy slow
<siretart> thanks bddebian
<siretart> I'm currently running revu-report on it
<bddebian> NP, thx siretart
<bddebian> slomo: What's your issue with festival-freebsoft-utils?
<slomo> bddebian: please give me the bugnumber again :) then i'll tell you
<chninkel> siretart: i am here
<bddebian> slomo: Bug #42442
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42442 in festival-freebsoft-utils "UVF Exception: festival-freebsoft-utils" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42442
<siretart> chninkel: your latest lirc package FTBFS!
<siretart> chninkel: I cannot upload it
<chninkel> siretart: I found the build logs
<chninkel> siretart: i am looking at it
<siretart> chninkel: I assume it's just a matter of build depends
<chninkel> siretart: i think, i am looking at the configure to watch exactly what it's looking for
<chninkel> siretart: can we use virtual package in build depends ?
<siretart> chninkel: this is a #launchpad question, but as far as I remember, sbuild is pretty picky :(
<siretart> pbuilder is way more permissive. so a real package seems way more safe to me
<siretart> chninkel: try this: realpkg | virtualpkg. this should be safe
<siretart> dholbach: I hope you are not upset that I assign random bugs to you
<bddebian> hehe
<jabra> anyone ever setup dual head on a laptop ?
<siretart> jabra: works for me [tm] 
<jabra> really?
<dholbach> siretart: um, my todo list is very long already - I'll have a look and decide what i can do
<jabra> can you explain how
<jabra> or know of a good tutorial
<siretart> dholbach: it was a uvf request you requested yourself ;)
<siretart> jabra: the problem is that it really depends on what xorg driver module you are using
<jabra> k
<siretart> jabra: the configuration differ on all drivers
<dholbach> siretart: I thought you'd assign other crazy stuff to me as well
<siretart> dholbach: hehe. I just wanted to frighten you ;)
* bddebian starts assigning to dholbach :-)
<jabra> i'm using dapper. do you wnat the version of xorg?
<jabra> i'm using nvidia
<dholbach> you guys will feel my wrath
<dholbach> don't worry
<bddebian> :-)
<siretart> jabra: oh, the nvidia module provides even 2 modes. xinerama and twinview. I'm using twinview
<dholbach> i'll pick a day when I'm in an especially bad mood
* bddebian hides
<jabra> what is the difference
<siretart> jabra: twinview allows both heads 3d accelerated. you can even move opengl applications from one head to the other
<jabra> that's awesome
<siretart> jabra: but it doesn't really support non rectangular virtual desktopsizes very well.
<jabra> and xinerama?
<siretart> does it perfectly
<jabra> but..doesn't handle opengl
<siretart> I think it does, on the first head only
<siretart> but I never really used it
<chninkel> siretart: so how do I build depend on the last kernel headers ?
<jabra> siretart: can you nopaste your xorg config or something?
<siretart> jabra: I can mail it to you
<jabra> k
<jabra> jabra @ccs.neu.edu
<jabra> appreciate it
<siretart> chninkel: I don't think you can. please ask the kernel team to be sure
<siretart> jabra: done
<jabra> ok i'll give it a try
<chninkel> siretart: who is in the kernel team ?
<jabra> which nvidia driver are you using?
* bddebian hugs poor dholbach
<siretart> jabra: nvidia
* dholbach hugs bddebian back
<jabra> version?
<siretart> chninkel: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-kernel-team or #ubuntu-kernel, I think
<zul> chninkel: we hang out on #ubuntu-kernel
<dholbach> good night fellas
<crimsun> 'night daniel
<dholbach> night daniel!
<zul> nighty night
<dholbach> night chuck
<jabra> siretart: so I have it working
<jabra> but some chars dont work
<jabra> fixed the issue
<jabra> I suggest you add the Option "NoLogo" anywhere you use the nvidia driver
<chx> may I ask whether mplayer-amd64 will work on a 32 bit system? I have a K8 Sempron CPU
<slomo_> chx: it's only for transitional purposes... just install the mplayer package, it has everything you want and mplayer-amd64 would pull it in anyway
<chx> well, i wanted the most optimized mplayer possible, that's why I asked
<slomo_> chx: so get 'mplayer', it has autodetection for cpu features and uses the best possible for your cpu
<chx> slomo_: ahhhhhh that's fantastic
* chx is just happy for his new 9-25W mobile CPU and wants to use it best :)
<chx> thanks
<nawty> Howdy
<bddebian> Hello nawty
<nawty> I've got a question, ( the ever faithfull sentance that every person says when joining a # related to software )
<bddebian> Heh
<nawty> where would i find iformation on specifically what i need to maintain a package, and what the rules, regs and such would be for adding a package
<bddebian> The Debian New Maintainers guide and/or the Ubuntu wiki pages are probably a great start
<nawty> I'm alittle confused about somthing.
<nawty> There's a package that doesn't seem to be maintained in ubuntu, could i update it ?
<nawty> i'm not sure how the whole who does what thing fits in where in regards to packages.
<nawty> here's the package : http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/mail/postfix-policyd
<nawty> I believe it's an upstream debian package.
<siretart> nawty: of course you can update it
<siretart> nawty: I'd suggest filing bugs against the package, describing the issues you found, and link from there to the upload you prepared
<nawty> siretart: did that a few weeks ago ;)
<siretart> nawty: revu is a good place to present your upload candidates
<siretart> nawty: ah, even better :)
<nawty> siretart: the problem is that upstream ( debian ) seems to have the latest versions already.
<nawty> siretart: and the dapper one's a LOT behind
<nawty> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/postfix-policyd/+bug/36823
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36823 in postfix-policyd "Update ? debian upstream much higher version..." [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<siretart> nawty: the thing is that we are soo late in the dev cycle that we require good reports for updating exceptions
<nawty> siretart: aah, ok, would i rather want to investigate this more towards post-release time ?
<bddebian> Later folks
<nawty> later.
<siretart> nawty: if there isn't anything really serious, let's defer that when edgy opens. that's the right time to fix upgrades to latest version
<siretart> right now we want to stabilize dapper and fix things
<nawty> siretart: it's just that the old version ( which is VERY old ) has none of the usefull features.
<nawty> siretart: mind helping me work out which bugs are worth a patch?
<siretart> nawty: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06 for a start
<nawty> siretart: one of the packages i'm using is actually 'broken', what would one do about that ?
<siretart> nawty: which bug are you referring to?
<nawty> siretart: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dspam/+bug/39918
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39918 in dspam "bug's in libdspam-drv-mysql package." [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<dudus> hello
<dudus> I just built a package that I wanted to upload to the repos
<dudus> this package fixes the bug #27904
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 27904 in php5 "mysqli driver missing" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/27904
<dudus> never did it before... how should I proceed
<zul> heylo
<dudus> anyone?
<LaserJock> dudus: can you attach a debdiff to the bug report?
<dudus> this is a new package
<dudus> I'll try
<dudus> how do I upload packages to the REVU??
<siretart> dudus: it involves reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU, and telling me your keyid
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-17
<dudus> I'm checking it
<dudus> siretart: my key id is 8EE90411
<siretart> done
<dudus> what now?
<dudus> siretart: how do I upload my .deb package now?
<siretart> dudus: you don't upload .deb packages. revu is about reviewing, and we can only review source packages
<siretart> dudus: use 'dput revu foo_source.changes', and make sure that your *_source.changes file is properly signed
<dudus> ok but I packaged a package that fixes a bug in malone, and now I want to know how to upload this to universe
<siretart> great :)
<siretart> find someone to review your source package. he will sign and upload it for you then
<dudus> there's no source ... this is just a php5 extenssion
<LaserJock> how did you get a .deb then?
<dudus> siretart: I'm sorry If I sound too stupid... I'm just new to all this, but I'd relly to keep packaging things
<dudus> I compiled this from php5 source... ok but I haven't packaged a src package...
<siretart> dudus: we cannot upload binaries to ubuntu. the archive accepts source packages only
<dudus> siretart: hummm. hwo they got php5-mysql then? my package (php5-mysqli) is very similar to this one... but I don't know how to build a source package for it
<dudus> maybe I need some more studying
<siretart> dudus: try 'apt-get source php5-mysql'
<dudus> hummm
<dudus> siretart: I think this clarifies a lot
<siretart> :)
<dudus> ok I'll study this package and make the new one
<dudus> then how do I upload this source package?
<LaserJock> dudus: you might find http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html helpful as well
<dudus> whoa this is big 8064kB for a 100kB extenssion...
<dudus> probably it has full php code
<dudus> thanks I'll try these and then I come back
<dudus> see ya
<LaserJock> cya dudus
<siretart> gn8
<Toadstool> gn8 all
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> ajmitch: how's it going over in sheep land?
<LaserJock> or is that .au? I can't remember
* ajmitch kicks LaserJock 
<LaserJock> ouch
<LaserJock> where's Hobsee, I'm sure she would defend me :-)
<ajmitch> no she wouldn't
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<LaserJock> heah, maybebddebian will defend me ;-)
<ajmitch> I can see I'm not wanted here :P
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch, LaserJock
<LaserJock> hehe, you know you are always welcome here ajmitch :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: What'd you do now? :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, I'll quote:
<LaserJock> "ajmitch: how's it going over in sheep land?"
<LaserJock> which then led to:
* ajmitch departs for a friendlier climate
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> "ajmitch kicks LaserJock "
<LaserJock> ajmitch: Paris perhaps?
<crimsun> you have to make supplications to a deity, LaserJock, instead of just hoping ;)
<bddebian> Gah
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> heya bddebian, LaserJock, ajmitch
<LaserJock> crimsun: gotta have faith, dude, gotta have faith ;-)
<LaserJock> ok, well I'm going to go home so ajmitch can stay here and be in better company :-)
<bddebian> Later Laser_away
<imbrandon> *yawns* hello motus
<bddebian> Hello imbrandon
<ajmitch> hmmph
<bddebian> Heya persia
<persia> bddebian: Hey.  I'm not around for long, and I appear to have missed those I sought :(
<bddebian> I get no love
<ajmitch> bah
<ajmitch> rubbish
<imbrandon> heh bddebian i feel ya
* ajmitch tries clearing some of his assigned bugs list
<lifeless> who runs packages.u.c ?
<ajmitch> !canonical
<ajmitch> "Please contact Frank Lichtenheld if you encounter any problems!
<ajmitch> frank@lichtenheld.de it seems
<lifeless> heh
<lifeless> I should have looked :)
<ajmitch> yep :)
<lifeless> I want the source for the 'search package directories' code
<ajmitch> there's no obvious link to the source anywhere
<bddebian> ajmitch: So how's the zope going? :-)
<ajmitch> :P
<ajmitch> it's not
<ajmitch> I just hope that we get it fixed before release
<bddebian> ajmitch: Anything I can do for ya?
<ajmitch> nope
<lifeless> aw man, advertising clauses BITE
<ajmitch> waiting on NEW still
<bddebian> OK
* bddebian goes back to his little hole
<lifeless> hows this for an advertising clause : http://dev.alfresco.com/legal/licensing/apl/
<lifeless> look for Alfresco Public License 1.0 - Exhibit B
<ajmitch> now that's restrictive
<lifeless> thats Ben Dover time
<bddebian> hehe
<ajmitch> now should I upload e2fsprogs today?
<bddebian> Sure, go for it :-)
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch just ha a quick for bug 36925
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36925 in e2fsprogs "e2fsprogs rebuild fails in dapper due to new texi2html behaviour" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36925
<ajmitch> I just get nervous about uploading critical stuff :)
<bddebian> Bah, you da man!
<ajmitch> it's only a build fix anyway
<bddebian> Hmm, what should I look at tonight?
<ajmitch> bugs!
<ajmitch> you need to clear 25K karma by release day
<bddebian> I know, which ones?
<ajmitch> shouldn't be a challenge at all :P
* bddebian checks where he's at now
<ajmitch> 21979
<bddebian> Hmm, seems to be moving slower these days :-)
<ajmitch> it is
<ajmitch> they probably cut back the karma given for various actions
<ajmitch> & the decay rate
<bddebian> decay rate?
<ajmitch> the rate that karma drops to 0
<ajmitch> eg mine has been falling away since I've been slack lately
<bddebian> Well I've been "bug fixing" non-stop for about the last 3 weeks so I shouldn't have that problem
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I just can't compete
<bddebian> BS.  I don't do any "real" work unfortunately :-(
<lifeless> bugfixing is real work
* ajmitch should do a beagle upload or something today
<ajmitch> seems my patch works well enough
<bddebian> lifeless: Yeah but I mostly hit easy/cosmetic stuff.  Nothing substantial :-(
<ajmitch> well that's what gets you karma :)
<ajmitch> 382 upgraded, 33 newly installed, 12 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
<ajmitch> Need to get 211MB/224MB of archives.
<ajmitch> crap
<ajmitch> I don't use that chroot often enough
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well I don't do it for the karma believe or not? :-)
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> my english is real good today
<ajmitch> see patch title on bug 36789
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36789 in beagle "Beagle doesn't seem to search/index f-spot information" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36789
<bddebian> ajmitch: What's wrong with it?
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> it's just odd
<ajmitch> ok, that's another one off the list, at least
<ajmitch> still 10219 left
<ajmitch> that seems lower than a couple of days ago
<andrewski> hello.  if i'm asked to upload a source package to launchpad, do i just need the .dsc that was created during the build process?
<crimsun> no, you need .dsc, _source.changes, and diff.gz
<crimsun> and possibly orig.tar.gz, too
<crimsun> the _source.changes will list what you need in the Files section
<bddebian> Man trying to debug stuff is depressing :-(
<crimsun> bddebian: aye. 'twould be much more efficient if I had the reporters' identical configurations...
<bddebian> Well I meant that it reminds me of how little I really know :-(
<crimsun> bddebian: well, not to stub you, but no one really knows much
<bddebian> stub me?
<crimsun> as in demean
<bddebian> See, I don't even understand WTF you are talking about :-)
<bddebian> Oh, demean
<bddebian> I thought you said daemon
* bddebian has been staring at bugs too long :-)
<tritium> hello, bddebian
<bddebian> Heya tritium, what's shakin?
<tritium> bddebian: just laptop testing :)  You?
<bddebian> pulling my hair out :-)
<tritium> bddebian: don't make yourself bald ;)
<bddebian> It'll go with my age :-)
<crimsun> (heh, I'm already nearly bald)
<crimsun> usplash (0.2-1) dapper; urgency=low   * New artwork
<crimsun> mm would love to see that, but more debugging :/
<tritium> I'm thinning, for sure
* ajmitch wanders back in
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> debugging
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> the bane of any developer
<tritium> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey tritium
<ajmitch> bddebian: you need to fix more bugs!
<ajmitch> the number of open bugs is still growing
<bddebian> So I've noticed :-(
* ajmitch is trying to get rid of a few old bugs
<bddebian> Like #1? ;-)
<ajmitch> if we can get it under 10K by the end of the week, I'd be happy ;)
<bddebian> If we can get it under 10K by release I'd be happy :-)
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> under 8K would be better
<ajmitch> though not likely
* tritium files bugs frantically
<ajmitch> :P
<bddebian> Ack
<bddebian> ajmitch: Seriously man I have been pretty hot and heavy on the "easy" ones for like the last month and haven't made a dent :-(
<ajmitch> and I've been slacking as per usual
<ajmitch> now if only I can get python2.3-xml through NEW
<ajmitch> as well as python2.3-imaging
<ajmitch> I'm not sure what to do about python-docutils though
<ajmitch> might be best to change the zope depends, rather than the package
<bddebian> Why is is stuck in new?  Are you sure it's not depwait or something?  I had that hapen to libkwiki-perl
<ajmitch> no, it's stuck in NEW
<ajmitch> well, 2 packages depending on python2.3-docutils
<ajmitch> which is a dummy package anyway
* ajmitch takes the scalpel to them
<ajmitch> ah, 1 source package, even better
* ajmitch might 'fix up' python-docutils while he's at it
<ajmitch> and then it'll just be python2.3-imaging to deal with
* ajmitch just has to upload that one :)
<Hobbsee> hi everyone
<`6og> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi `6og
<crimsun> 'afternoon, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi crimsun :)
<Hobbsee> ah, yes.  the one i wanted to speak to
<crimsun> what's up?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: any idea why my sound would be running flat, since i reinstalled yesterday?
<crimsun> sorry, don't understand "running flat"
<Hobbsee> er, flat, as in, the opposite to sharp
<`6og> collapsed arches :)
<crimsun> as in pitch? hmm
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> nothing's changed since i reinstalled...
<crimsun> did you reinstall fresh from a daily or from a flight/beta?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: oh sorry, i got sidetracked!  ah, from a flight 4 cd that i had, which i've installed off before
<crimsun> Hobbsee: ok, does ``aplay /usr/share/sounds/startup.wav'' (or a KDE equiv) play at the correct pitch?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: yes, it seems to.  i removed the alsa config file, suggested in one of the bugs for alsa...er...wait, it's going flat again...so not really...
<Hobbsee> 2.6.15-22-686 kernel
<Hobbsee> sometime's it's correct, sometimes it goes flat, in the same piece of music
<crimsun> Hobbsee: tail -2 /proc/asound/oss/sndstat
* crimsun prays it's not hda
<Hobbsee> crimsun:
<Hobbsee> Mixers:
<Hobbsee> 0: Analog Devices AD1981B
<crimsun> Hobbsee: and /proc/asound/modules
<Hobbsee> sarah@sarah:~$ cat /proc/asound/modules
<Hobbsee> 0 snd_intel8x0
<crimsun> Hobbsee: grep clock /var/log/dmesg
<Hobbsee> [4294692.664000]  intel8x0_measure_ac97_clock: measured 50253 usecs
<Hobbsee> [4294692.664000]  intel8x0: clocking to 48000
<crimsun> ok.
<crimsun> there are two module parameters you may need, buggy_irq=1 and buggy_semaphore=1
<Hobbsee> what's that mean?
<Hobbsee> right...
<Hobbsee> how does one do that?
<crimsun> you would close all audio apps (probably need to log out of KDE and do this from a console)
<crimsun> then, sudo modprobe -r snd_intel8x0 && sudo modprobe snd_intel8x0 buggy_irq=1
<Hobbsee> or would killing knotify work?
<crimsun> test with aplay
<crimsun> nah, you probably need to log out of kde, since the session has arts iirc
<Hobbsee> ah okay...
<crimsun> if the above doesn't work, use buggy_semaphore=1
<crimsun> are you dist-upgrading from F4 to current?
<Hobbsee_> crimsun: yes
<crimsun> seems like a hardware issue. Has this ever happened before?
<Hobbsee_> er...kde just got lost...
<Hobbsee_> what's the command again?
<Hobbsee_> good, that killed it...
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> maybe time to get a new laptop :)
* Hobbsee_ wonders about a bad install
<Hobbsee_> hehe no!
* Hobbsee_ pats her pretty blue laptop
<`6og> lol
<Hobbsee_> crimsun: which was the command again sorry?
<crimsun> Hobbsee_: sudo modprobe -r snd_intel8x0 && sudo modprobe snd_intel8x0 buggy_irq=1
<Hobbsee_> crimsun: thanks.  then restart kde?
<crimsun> Hobbsee_: or just test with aplay
<Hobbsee_> crimsun: same problem.
<Hobbsee_> it goes off by about a tone - eek!
<crimsun> Hobbsee: is this a brand-new occurrence, or has it happened before?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: brand new
<crimsun> pitch-warbling is usually a hardware issue
* Hobbsee wonders if the same thing happens under windows
<crimsun> Hobbsee: please pastebin ``dmesg''
<crimsun> Hobbsee: oh, is this after resuming from suspend/hibernate?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: no, it was from power off...
<crimsun> Hobbsee_: ok
<Hobbsee> crimsun: http://pastebin.com/712997
<Hobbsee_> oh grrr!  the screens' done it again!
<Hobbsee_> i'm starting to think that this install has more problems than just the sound!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee_: btw, have you ran memtest since installing that new RAM?
<Hobbsee_> ajmitch: nope.  am i supposed to?
<ajmitch> usually a good idea to
<Hobbsee_> well, the reinstall would have been with the new install in...
<ajmitch> especially if you start seeing weird problems
<Hobbsee_> er, new ram in
<crimsun> there are some odd resource pointer errors in your desg
<crimsun> dmesg, rather
<crimsun> if you remove the new RAM, does the pitch-warbling still occur?
* Hobbsee_ wouldnt be brave enough to do that
<Hobbsee> crimsun: er...something's just reminded me that i had a couple of unofficial repos when dist upgrading from flight 4 - tonios repo, and the amarok 1.4beta repo - are they likely to have anything to do wiht this?
* Hobbsee ducks
<crimsun> ok, my instinct says "hardware"
<crimsun> Hobbsee: highly unlikely
* ajmitch would run that memtest for awhile tonight
<Hobbsee> will do...
<pef> hello
<pef> is it still possible to request sync from debian, just to have bugs fixed  in  a package ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> if it's a new upstream version, you need to request the exception
<pef> ajmitch : I just have to test the Debian's package works fine, and ask elmo a sync ?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> see wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources for sync instructions
<ajmitch> elmo hasn't handled syncs for awhile now
<pef> ajmitch : thanks :)
<phanatic> hi people
<phanatic> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey phanatic
<dholbach> hey motu world
<Toadstool> hi phanatic & dholbach
<ajmitch> hi
<phanatic> hi Toadstool
<dholbach> hey Toadstool, ajmitch
<dholbach> how are y'all?
<ajmitch> good, yourself?
<dholbach> a bit tired, but gradually waking up
<dholbach> but else: fine
<ajmitch> :)
<phanatic> hi people
<ajmitch> hi
<phanatic> hello ajmitch
<ivoks> anyone?
<ivoks> i need advice
<ajmitch> with what?
<ajmitch> ask a question if you want advice :P
<ivoks> i have requested UVF for sylpheed-claws-gtk2
<ivoks> it was granted
<ivoks> by the time archive managers looked at it, new version apeard in Sid
<ivoks> but this versino isn't just a bugfix, it brings few new fauters
<ajmitch> main or universe?
<ivoks> fatures
<ivoks> universe
<ivoks> grrr... features
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> I'd say that you go with the version that was current when you asked for UVF exception
<ivoks> so, I guess I should request new sync or drop the last one?
<ajmitch> since you would have had packages ready for that, right?
<ivoks> ajmitch: I do have a source, but would it be ok to upload it?
<ajmitch> if that's the version the UVF exception was granted for, it should be fine
<ivoks> ok
<ajmitch> I wouldn't go grabbing a version with new features right now
<ivoks> me too
* ajmitch has a similar problem with zope-zwiki
<ivoks> that's why I asked for advice...
<ajmitch> except that it's really only bugfixes
<ivoks> one thing...
* ajmitch may need to check with siretart, etc on that :)
<ivoks> version I asked for UVF was also newer version that allready is in dapper
<ivoks> but it's only bugfixes
<ajmitch> ok
<ivoks> so, there is no 2.1.1 in dapper, which i would like to upload
<ajmitch> just a man
<ajmitch> a min
<ivoks> ok
<ajmitch> there are 3 versions..
<ivoks> right
<ajmitch> that which is currently in dapper
<ajmitch> that which you asked UVF exception for
<ajmitch> and that which is in sid
<ajmitch> which is 2.1.1?
<ivoks> right
<ivoks> the one i asked UVF for
<ajmitch> if you got the go ahead, upload it
<ivoks> ok
<siretart> right
<siretart> ivoks: feel free to assign the bug to yourself
<ajmitch> and if you need another UVF exception, ask for one :)
<ivoks> siretart: ok, thanks
<siretart> so that we know that you work on that (e.g. with uploading)
<ajmitch> siretart: what's your opinion on zope-zwiki in this case?
<ajmitch> I've had 0.52.1 sitting here
<siretart> ajmitch: malone bug no?
<ivoks> siretart: i'll just change subject, requesting new package :)
<ajmitch> which I can upload
<ajmitch> bug 29051
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29051 in zope-zwiki "zope-zwiki package is out of date" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29051
<ajmitch> upstream is recommending 0.53 since it's a monthly release cycle
<siretart> ajmitch: we all three have agreed on granting the exception, proceed with uploading, I'd say
<ajmitch> shall I upload 0.52.1 now & ask for a quick UVF exception again?
<ajmitch> or just go ahead with 0.53?
<ivoks> is "Dapper upload" ok for a changelog? :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: not particularly verbose, is it?
<ivoks> there's nothing I can add
<ivoks> it isn't a debian sync
<ajmitch> then if it's not a sync, there must be some changes you're merging
<ajmitch> or at least something about this new version
<ivoks> everything is in Debian's part of changelog
<ajmitch> if I were the debian maintainer, trying to figure out what's different between the debian package & ubuntu, 'dapper upload' doesn't say much to me :)
<ivoks> I'm just uploading this source (which isn't in debian anymore) to dapper
<ajmitch> ah right
<siretart> ajmitch: you know the package better than all of us, I think. please decide yourself whats better for dapper
<ajmitch> you can't sync, because it's old
<ajmitch> siretart: alright :)
<ivoks> there are couple of LP bugs about it
<ivoks> i'll make them as reference
<ajmitch> siretart: I just prefer not to annoy too many people by bending too many rules ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: thats okay
<ivoks> grrr :)
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Toadstool> hi Sp4rKy :)
<Sp4rKy> hi Toadstool Gloubiboulga :)
<Gloubiboulga> hi Sp4rKy ;)
<Sp4rKy> applaud a new ubuntu packager :)
<Gloubiboulga> hh
<Toadstool> :)
<Sp4rKy> ^^
<Sp4rKy> does anyone here works actualy on e17 packaging ?
<ivoks> Sp4rKy: when it's released, i'm sure somone will :)
<ajmitch> it's a complex beast :)
<Sp4rKy> if it 's released a day :/
<ajmitch> I would never recommend that someone learning packaging take it as their first project :)
<Sp4rKy> yes, i like complex beast :)
<Sp4rKy> it's my second project !
<Sp4rKy> the first was DeVeDe
<Toadstool> and it has just been uploaded to revu ;)
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee :)
<Sp4rKy> youpi !
<siretart> Sp4rKy: I don't think so. packages I've seen so far broke existing packages using imlib
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch :)
<ivoks> yup, imlib is important lib
<Gloubiboulga> siretart, could you add me as a reviewer on REVU, do I need to do something for this?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: kvdr didn't build
<dholbach> Hobbsee: not even the source package built - i uploaded the others
<Sp4rKy> siretart, i use e17 since 6month and i've no issue with it
<ajmitch> Sp4rKy: it's the other packages that have issues
<Sp4rKy> ok ...
<Sp4rKy> so i'll try to find some others software for trying packaging them before e17 :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: really?  i thought it built here.  thanks for that :)
<dholbach> anytime
<zul> heylo
<Sp4rKy> hi
<ajmitch> hey zul
<zul> hey ajmitch
<henning> Hi are there any Google-SoC mentors for Ubuntu here?
<ajmitch> probably one or two floating round at some hours of the day
<henning> I wondered how many students sent applications for Ubuntu and whether my application has a chance of success :)
<tseng> if you submit it, you will find out when everyone else does
<tseng> thats only fair
<ajmitch> a few hundred applications
<tseng> several hundred have applied
<Sp4rKy> henning, i'm student and i've sended my first package 10 min ago
<henning> yeah that's fair but every projects seems to handle this differently according to Summer-Discuss on Google Groups
<tseng> well here you cant expect someone to give you an instant review and answer when 400 other people are waiting
<henning> That's right, I only wanted to make sure I didn't miss any message
<ajmitch> no secret messages have been handed out to ubuntu SoC applicants as far sa I'm aware
<Hobbsee> well, if they were, their brains would be wiped soon afterwards :P
<ajmitch> like mine?
<Hobbsee> dont know.
<Hobbsee> i cant read your brain to find out :P
<Mithrandir> mm, brains.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hehe.  zombiel
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hehe.  zombie
* ajmitch is feeling a bit peckish tonight
<Hobbsee> did you have dinner at all ajmitch?
<ajmitch> I did
<Hobbsee> what was it?
<ajmitch> and it wasn't chocolate, either :P
* Hobbsee is still contemplating dinner
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<tseng> ajmitch: you shouldntve mentioned that
<Hobbsee> hey, now i cant have chocoalte as my *whole* meal!
<Hobbsee> tseng: hmm?
<tseng> i was ignoring my own illness nicely until now
<zul> Hobbsee: why not?
<Hobbsee> zul: large enough amounts of chocolate makes you feel sick :P
<zul> ah ok..:)
<ajmitch> sorry tseng
<tuxmaniac> siretart: Hi
<phanatic> hi people
<siretart> hi tuxmaniac, hello phanatic
<phanatic> hi siretart
<tuxmaniac> siretart: Regarding xcircuit
<tuxmaniac> siretart: YEs. there is already a package!! I guess its mentioned in the commnt itself that this is 3.4 version
<siretart> tuxmaniac: please say in the relevant malone report whats wrong with the old version and what gets fixed with your version. we'll take that into consideration in the uvf report
<tuxmaniac> siretart: Ok.. Thanks a lot
<tuxmaniac> siretart: I will do that
<tuxmaniac> siretart: Have uploaded the diff of changes and the diffstat of the entire package
<siretart> tuxmaniac: thanks
<tuxmaniac> siretart: Anything else?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi bddebian
<`6og> hi bddebian
<ajmitch> ready to storm the bugs again?
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch, `6og
<bddebian> ajmitch: Of course :)
<`6og> :)
<ajmitch> good
<ajmitch> get to it then
<Hobbsee> hi Kaiser
<Hobbsee> `6og: why oh why do you have such a painful nick?
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: !!! Welcome !!!
<bddebian> Hi tuxmaniac
<`6og> Hobbsee: it wasnt meant for general use. but it's being put in general use a bit mroe then before (in answer to your question: it's an asci Bettong)
<Hobbsee> ah
<ajmitch> night all
<`6og> later ajmitch
<Hobbsee> night ajmitch
<`6og> but just for you Hobbsee:
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> kgoetz: much better :P
<kgoetz> :P sacralidge
<bddebian> ajmitch: WTF?? :-) Gnight
<Hobbsee> bddebian: haha yeah, he does seem to sleep occasionally :P
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Have uploaded the diffs.. bug #6266
<kgoetz> looks like everyones leaving us bddebian
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6266 in xcircuit "UVF Exception: xcircuit" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6266
<bddebian> kgoetz: Yeah, what the heck? :)
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: I saw that, thanks
<kgoetz> i know :/
* kgoetz scratches head at an impossible bug. grr
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: I should be saying thanks for filing an UVF!! :D
<bddebian> Heh.  I just hope it gets in :-)
<zakame> hi all
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: me too!!
<zakame> hi bddebian
<\sh> hmmm....I should apply for the system admin job offer from canonical ;)
<zakame> \s	ooh! :DF
<bddebian> Hey where's that posted?? :)
<bddebian> Hi \sh
<zakame> hi \s
<zakame> persia :D
<persia> zakame: Hey.
<bddebian> Heya persia
<persia> Hi bddebian
<goldenear> hi
<bddebian> Hello goldenear
<goldenear> I've update the twinkle package from the debian sources rep
<goldenear> the files can be found there: http://goldenear.online.fr/ubuntu/twinkle
<goldenear> could somebody check them and update the universe rep ?
<bddebian> goldenear: Is it a totally new version?
<goldenear> it's the lastest version
<goldenear> the actual universe version is 0.4.2
<goldenear> the new version is 0.7.1
<bddebian> And what is Debian's version?
<goldenear> 0.7.1-1
<bddebian> Ah.  Please file a UVF Exception request on Launchpad
<bddebian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/UVFStatus
<siretart> goldenear: please don't forget to mention whats wrong with the old version
<goldenear> Also, I've made a little modification (adding sip URL support in konqueror using a sip.protocol file)
<goldenear> so my version is 0.7.1-1.1
<bddebian> Do you intend to maintain it in Ubuntu?
<goldenear> I can do it yes
<goldenear> Also I would like to keep my change in sync with the Debian package... but I don't know how to do it properly...
<goldenear> do I just have to send a little mail to the debian maintainer ?
<bddebian> goldenear: Send a patch to Debians BTS
<bddebian> http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<bddebian> That would actually be preferred, then Ubuntu can sync the package directly from Debian
<goldenear> ok
<goldenear> so I'll do it this way
<goldenear> btw what's an UVF ?
<bddebian> Upstream Version Freeze
<goldenear> ok
<goldenear> What will I have to do after debian take my patch ?
<goldenear> how to make the universe package be updated/synced ?
<bddebian> goldenear: Start with a UVF exception request as outlined in the URL I gave you above
<alexr> siretart: Hi
<goldenear> ok I get it know
<alexr> siretart: any word on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gramps/+bug/42270 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42270 in gramps "Upstream Version Freeze exception for 2.0.11" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<goldenear> thank you bddebian
<bddebian> NP, thank YOu for your contribution :-)
<alexr> dholbach: are you around?
<persia> alexr: The UVF team has approved the bug.  At this point, it just needs an upload.  Try assigning it to MOTU Reviewers: someone might upload it for you.
<alexr> persia: thanks! how do I assign the bug?
<bddebian> Is it a sync?  If so and it's approved it needs to be subscribed to ubuntu-archive team
<persia> bddebian: It's an updated package directly from upstream, and approved.
<siretart> alexr: gramps needs a dev to review your sourcepackage and have it uploaded to dapper
<alexr> persia: bddebian: and it is in debian as well at this point.
<siretart> alexr: I'm currently at work, and cannot review it right now. perhaps someone else can help you out
<siretart> ?
<persia> alexr: Click on the gramps(Ubuntu) link in the yellow box, and change the assignment to MOTU Reviewers.
<alexr> "MOTU Reviewers" with the space?
<persia> alexr: Sorry, "MOTU Reviewers Team" (with spaces), or "motu-reviewers@tauware.com".
<siretart> tauware.de
<siretart> tauware.com was taken by a stupid domain grabber :/
<persia> Oops!  Sorry: I should copy & paste :(
<alexr> Done.
<alexr> persia: so what now? Should we sit and wait at this point?
<siretart> alexr: start helping on other bugs and become a ubuntu-dev yourself! ;)
<persia> alexr: Waiting usually works.  The MOTU Reviewers are often in this channel, and maybe one of them will take advantage of your presence to discuss the new package before uploading, although they may well all be busy now.
<alexr> siretart: this would be tough, because I don't have an ubuntu machine, only debian all over.
<siretart> alexr: you can surely use a chroot then
<alexr> siretart: yeah. Don't want to be a bore, but there's also gramps and the work :-)
<siretart> alexr: I also have some packages in debian ;)
<alexr> siretart: OK, I am shutting up then :-)
<Hobbsee> stupid question maybe, but does the repo version of ndiswrapper work for anyone?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: it doesn't for you?
<LaserJock> I wouldn't know
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: no, it never has
<ogra> why are you using ndiswrapper anyway ?
<ogra> broadcom cards should work with the bcm43xx driver in dapper
<Hobbsee> ogra: netgear wg511 v2 made in china card.
<Hobbsee> fortunately, you can use the marvell drivers, as it uses the same chipset
<ogra> isnt that a broadcom chipset ?
<Hobbsee> 0000:02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88w8335 [Libertas]  802.11b/g Wireless (rev 03)
<Hobbsee> doesnt seem like it
<ogra> ouch
<zakame> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi zakame
<Yagisan> G'day motu's, what's our favorite debugger for hunting down heisenbugs in opengl apps ?
<Yagisan> evening zakame, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan
<bddebian> Heya Yagisan
<LaserJock> hi bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<Yagisan> bddebian: how are you ?
<Yagisan> bddebian: say. do you like heisenbugs ?
<bddebian> Yagisan: OK, thx. You?
<bddebian> Yagisan: No, I hate them :-)
<Yagisan> bddebian: I'm being bothered by a heisenbug that only affects some linux boxes, no windows and no mac machines.
<bddebian> beauty
<LaserJock> what is a heisenbug? Reminds me of the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle from quantum mechanics
<Yagisan> LaserJock: it is a bug that disappears when you look at it
* Hobbsee wishes this sound bug would go away when she looked at it!  :P
<Yagisan> LaserJock: named because of the  Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle
<kgoetz> lol
<LaserJock> Yagisan: yeah, that makes sense for a Physical Chemist :-)
<persia> Yagisan: What's the name for the inverse?  There was a bug recently that only appeared when running inside gdb.
<Yagisan> The moment I dropped some debug code in to dump the status of whats happening the bug went away (an a new one appeared)
<Yagisan> persia: Schroedinbug IIRC
<LaserJock> Yagisan: lol, that's funny
<zakame> lol, Schroedinbug
<zakame> heisenbugs
<Yagisan> it's not funny when you are trying to find them :(
<Kyral> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi Kyral
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: your connection sucks. You on telstra ?
<Kyral> lol
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
<Kyral> Hey HurdFreak :P
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: no, i'm actually playing with sound, ndiswrapper, and kernels.
<Hobbsee> and they arent playing nice
<zakame> wb Hobb	
<Hobbsee> incidently, i'm on telstra, yes
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: oh yes, and i'm going insane at the same time :P
* Yagisan is glad his build systems run on tmpfs. It's getting tedious. edit -> build -> bug still here -> edit -> build -> new bug ->edit -> build -> old bug back
<Hobbsee> okay, now i'm going to bed...night all...
<bddebian> Gnight Hobbsee
<Yagisan> pfft - it's only 2:30am
<kgoetz> lol.
<kgoetz> she needs her beuty sleep :P
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
* Yagisan sobs "the heisenbug came back"
<Kyral> Jeez, you gotta love some users
<LaserJock> Yagisan: how do you know? Maybe by the act of observing you created the bug? ;-)
<imbrandon> lol @ Kyral
<Kyral> "Help my computer crashed" "What did you do?" "I hit it"
<Kyral> *smack!*
<LaserJock> Kyral: that actually crashed their computer?
<Kyral> I dunno
<Kyral> but I just put it together logically
<Kyral> Computer was working
<Kyral> Person hit it
<Kyral> Computer crashed
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> is ther a video player that will play vids on console fb ? ( no x installed ? )
<Kyral> and now he's saying there is no real problem....
<Kyral> oy oy oy
<Yagisan> LaserJock: thankfully it was observed by someone else.
<Yagisan> imbrandon: mplayer
<imbrandon> Yagisan mplayer will? kool htanks i'lll ahve to look at that, never tried it but i got a comp with no x i would like to play vids on
<Kyral> So I guess he doesn't understand why I am looking dumb
<Kyral> Something didn't work, but worked after a reboot...
<Kyral> I am failing to see what this guy wants lol
<MeerKatje> :) Question: We run a community project and want to introduce Linux and Ubuntu... Advantages?
<MeerKatje> (apologies if I interupt)
<LaserJock> MeerKatje: hmm, that's a bit vague, can you be more specific?
<Yagisan> MeerKatje: compared to ???? There are many advantages compared to say a puppy. eg Ubuntu doesn't need toilet training ;)
<Kyral> lol
<MeerKatje> I know I am a complete novice :) *blush* but have to start somewhere...
<LaserJock> but it can still eat your homework ;-)
<Kyral> lol
<MeerKatje> we manage economic development projects in local communities, and have an IT component that currently run on Windows
<Kyral> and you wanna ditch XP?
<MeerKatje> but for obvious reasons, we are considering open source.... some are trying to tell us it will be difficult for our unemployed clients to find employment after being trained on open source
<MeerKatje> so I am wondering about benefits :)
<MeerKatje> yes Kyral
<Kyral> MeerKatje: well, they could go work for GNU or the FSF or Canonical lol
<MeerKatje> hehe
<Kyral> and why would it be difficult?
<Kyral> They still know how to use the XP stuff right? And learning open source would be just adding another tool to thier skillset
<Yagisan> MeerKatje: I'd see it as by being trained on open source they would have an edge other other applicants.
<Kyral> If anything it would make it easier for them to get employment
<MeerKatje> no no... they would start out on openoffice
<MeerKatje> and not learn XP at all
<Kyral> like "wait a second, this guy knows how to work both XP and Linux....SCORE!!"
<MeerKatje> mt of our micro-entrepreneurs have little PC skills
<MeerKatje> and open source would be their first induction into IT
<MeerKatje> good or bad?
<Kyral> Apache is Open Source
<Kyral> 'nuff said
<LaserJock> MeerKatje: I can understand where learning XP might be helpful when it is so pervasive
<MeerKatje> Yagisan: It does make sense... if one can add it to your skills set. But is it enough?
<LaserJock> MeerKatje: what is your main objective in this project?
<MeerKatje> LaserJock: Acess to economic opportunities, e.g. self-employment or job... untimately poverty eradication through community development
<Kyral> well, obviously Open Source software has lower startup costs
<MeerKatje> but through SUSTAINABLE programmes :)
<MeerKatje> Kyral: Indeed, that it why we seriously consider it. We are now building a business park in a community... and may put in the IT for open source.
<Kyral> again I point to Apache
<Kyral> and MySQL
<MeerKatje> I am so clueless Kyral
<LaserJock> MeerKatje: I do think Open Source (and specifically Ubuntu) would be helpful, but I would personally not exclusively go with Linux
<MeerKatje> you have no diea
<MeerKatje> idea
<phanatic> hi people
<MeerKatje> and lots of patience
<MeerKatje> LaserJock: Thank you. This does make sense. Maybe it could work well at the Internet Cafe?
<Yagisan> MeerKatje: I run my entire business on Open Source. It is certainly possible, but some areas *cough* accounting *cough* need some work
<Kyral> Maybe the BSDs
<MeerKatje> BSD?
<Kyral> not HURD yet though *winks at bddebian*
<MeerKatje> business support development?
<Yagisan> MeerKatje: similar to Linux
<LaserJock> MeerKatje: I would probably go with mostly Linux and have a couple XP boxes just for people who feel they need to have that skill set
<Kyral> Berkly somethign soemthing
<Yagisan> Berkley Systems Distribution
<MeerKatje> Yagisan: We are so keen to create a landmark in South Africa....for introducing Linux to  informal economy.
<bddebian> Kyral: Heh
<MeerKatje> But it is tricky to know where to start.
<Kyral> South Africa...
<MeerKatje> yes
<Kyral> ain't sabdfl from there?
<Yagisan> Kyral: Yeah, he is
<MeerKatje> Yagisan, I recently downloaded OpenOffice and was pleasantly surprised
<LaserJock> MeerKatje: one of the things that I enjoy (especially as a broke student) about Linux is I can do *more* with Linux than XP while having it free (both price and open source)
<MeerKatje> I have since written a few proposals in OO
<Kyral> Yagisan: tthink sabdfl would be interested in talking to MeerKatje?
<bddebian> Kyral: Probably
<Yagisan> Kyral: perhaps. I think he should also chat with highvoltage
<MeerKatje> may I post the web URL for the project here?
<Kyral> hmm
<MeerKatje> email?
<Kyral> I dunno how to go about contacting Mark about something like this lol
<Kyral> MeerKatje: you do know who we are referring to by "sabdfl" right?
<MeerKatje> we also work closely with local government, so the offical support and community backing are there
<MeerKatje> I guess it may be MS?
<MeerKatje> from SA?
<Kyral> I hope you mean Mark Shuttleworth by MS :P
<MeerKatje> yes ;P
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> hmm, he's over in -devel
<Kyral> active in -devel?
<Yagisan> well, now away message
<LaserJock> MeerKatje: but highvoltage in #edubuntu is a good contact person
<Yagisan> s/now/no
<Kyral> I dunno
<Kyral> I've fallen to the outskirts of this project again lol
<MeerKatje> I should go there?
<Kyral> I guess....or contact highvoltage
<MeerKatje> ok
<LaserJock> MeerKatje: but yeah, I think that Linux could really have a lot of benefits for your project
<Kyral> Like I said, I'm in the process of leaving this project
<Yagisan> MeerKatje: highvoltage isn't on atm, so I'd try to chat to the sabdfl first
<bddebian> Kyral: Leaving what project?
<MeerKatje> wonderful
<Kyral> Ubuntu
<MeerKatje> thank you so much!
<LaserJock> Kyral: why? I don't want to have to kick you out of MOTUScience ;-)
<bddebian> Kyral: Why??
<Yagisan> ???
<Kyral> LaserJock: Need to focus on other things..hell I don' even use Ubuntu anymore
<Kyral> if bddebian creates a HURD Team I'll prolly join up there
<bddebian> Doh :'-(
<bddebian> Kyral: Heh
<kgoetz> ooooh bddebian, you making a HURD?
<bddebian> I have 4 Hurd boxen running
<Kyral> Actually bddebian wanna spec out at least some kinda Ubuntu HURD for Eft?
<bddebian> Eft?
<Kyral> Edgy
<kgoetz> i have played in the past, i want ubuntu HURD though :(
<Kyral> Ubuntu 6.10
<Yagisan> so, who has Ubuntu KfreeBSD ?
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Didn't sabdfl tell us to go wild with Edgy?
* kgoetz waits for "ubuntu Debian", a huge, imoveable mass, that gets updated every 3 Windows releases
<bddebian> There would be significant issues with an Ubuntu Hurd
<Kyral> bddebian: oh?
<bddebian> Not the least of which are the PATH_MAX, MAXHOSTNAMELEN, et al issues
<Kyral> hmm
* Kyral smirks
<Kyral> Sounds like fun
<bddebian> No, it's a pointless battle
<kgoetz> night all
<Kyral> oh?
<Kyral> You got Debian running on it yes?
<bddebian> Kyral: Not all packages no
<bddebian> A limited number of them
<Kyral> bddebian: but the base?
<bddebian> Some
<Kyral> ie, bash
<Kyral> X
<Kyral> GNOME?
<bddebian> Nope
<Kyral> hmm?
<Kyral> I thought someone got X running?
<bddebian> X and Gnome can be made to work
<Kyral> ah
<bddebian> X keeps going up and down
<bddebian> I don't think we have xserver-xorg fixed yet
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> well, if I can port the ubuntu-server install to HURD
<bddebian> Good luck with that :-)
<Kyral> (ie, all the packages in ubuntu-server)
<Kyral> then will you team up with me for an Ubuntu-HURD?
<LaserJock> so what is the point of HURD?
<Kyral> Its GNU's Kernel
<Kyral> and its a microkernel
<bddebian> Kyral: I have an archive ready to go. :-)
<Kyral> bddebian: for?
<Yagisan> LaserJock: why not ?
<bddebian> UbunTurd ;-P
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> bddebian: have you applied any Ubuntu patches to the HURD Debian patches?
<Kyral> er
<Kyral> packages
<bddebian> No, I can't touch Debian
* Yagisan would be happy if he could pick whatever kernel he liked for Ubuntu
<Kyral> if it runs Debian, it should just be a matter of changing up the Sources.list
<bddebian> Yeah, good luck with that :-)
<Kyral> bddebian: Everything is impossible until someone does it :D
<bddebian> :-)
<Kyral> So
<Kyral> should I at least spec it as a braindump?
<bddebian> Sure.  I'd be happy to help
* Yagisan swears at his heisenbug
<Kyral> anyone else with me?
* LaserJock still has enough problems trying to figure out how to work with 1 kernel
<Kyral> uhh....how do I make a spec?
<Yagisan> Sorry Kyral. I'm overcommitted based on my current income
* Kyral feels stupid lol
<LaserJock> Kyral: stupid?
<felipe__> Hello there, Im reading the Packaging From Scratch documentation and I hava few questions regarding some of the steps
<Kyral> LaserJock: I dunno how to write a spec for Launchpad lol
<LaserJock> felipe__: yeah? what's up?
<felipe__> First, when I download the source with apt-get a directory with the source files is created. In the documentaion it says I should Untar de .orig.tar.gz wich replaces the files in the directory already created. So do I really need to untar the .orig.tar.gz file?
<felipe__> LaserJock, Hi
<Kyral> I think I found it just add a new spec to Ubuntu?
<MeerKatje> thanks for your time guys
<LaserJock> felipe__: well, what happens is that apt-get source untars the .orig.tar.gz and then applies the diff from the .diff.gz
<MeerKatje> will come again :)
<LaserJock> MeerKatje: np, hope everything works out well for your project
<felipe__> LaserJock, So I can skip those steps?
<MeerKatje> thanks :) I am sure it will
<LaserJock> felipe__: well, if you want to just start from a clean source you want to rm the directory and untar the .orig.tar.gz
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> anyone can add a spec to Ubuntu right (just making sure)
<tseng> yes
<felipe__> LaserJock: Ok, my second question is how to I apply the gunzipped .diff.gz? I just untar the file?
<LaserJock> felipe__: ok, just a sec. What step are you at exactly?
<felipe__> 3. Apply the gunzipped .diff.gz to the unpacked source directory.
<felipe__> LaserJock,  3. Apply the gunzipped .diff.gz to the unpacked source directory.
<LaserJock> felipe__: apt-get source does all of those for you. Did you make sure you are doing apt-get source in the right directory?
<LaserJock> felipe__: you should do it in ~/hello/ubuntu/
<felipe__> LaserJock, yes it did. But still I want to do it myself. what do you do when you apply the .diff.gz? you untar or unzip the file in the directory created by untaring the .orig.tar.gz file?
<LaserJock> felipe__: oh ok. well basically if you wanted to do it by hand you would untar the .orig.tar.gz file
<LaserJock> which would create the source directory, and then you would gunzip the .diff.gz
<LaserJock> and then you would apply the diff with patch -p0 < *.diff
<Kyral> hmm, I should assign the Drafter as myself no?
<LaserJock> I think that should be the right -p
<felipe__> LaserJock, Thanks thats what I wanted to know. In the guide it just says 'Apply' and I didn't know what I had to do to 'Apply' the .diff.gz
<LaserJock> felipe__: np, I wasn't expecting somebody to actually want to do that by hand ;-)
<felipe__> LaserJock, np
<LaserJock> felipe__: if you have more comments/suggestions/bugs please email me (mantha@ubuntu.com) or the ubuntu-doc list if you can't find me on IRC
<Kyral> okay spec registered
<felipe__> LaserJock, I will :oP
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-hurd/
<LaserJock> way to go Kyral
<Kyral> First I think we need to stabilize crosshurd...
<felipe__> Kyral, whats hurd?
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HURD
<bddebian> Kyral: Why? Who needs crosshurd?
<Kyral> bddebian: because right now the Debian install CDs use it right?
<bddebian> Hmm, I don't think so but I could be wrong
<bddebian> There is an SoC project to finish up the d-i installer for Hurd :)
<Kyral> how stable are the Debian install CDs anyway?
<Kyral> I just need a Debian HURD system that I can slowly modify to an Ubuntu System
<bddebian> Pretty good, though I have had issues with K10 installs
<bddebian> Kyral: I can give you an account on one of my machines if you want
<Kyral> bddebian: I'm gonna be installing HURD anyway
<felipe__> LaserJock, Is this phrase complete? "At this point create a changelog file in the debian directory where you should still be."
<LaserJock> felipe__: yeah, but maybe the grammar isn't the best
<felipe__> LaserJock, I create an empty changelog file?
<LaserJock> just a sec
<LaserJock> felipe__: no, you need to use the template and create one
<Kyral> I'm just wondering how to convert the Debian HURD packages to ubuntu ones...it would be like Syncing all over again
<bddebian> Kyral: There is no difference
<felipe__> LaserJock, why not use the changelog in the /ubuntu/hello-2.1.1/debian and add an entry?
<bddebian> You should be able to pull straight from the Ubuntu archives in theory
<Kyral> bddebian: yah, there would be. remember Ubuntu applies some patches that aren't in Sid
<Kyral> bddebian: well yes, but wouldn't I have to recompile the srcpacks for HURD?
<LaserJock> felipe__: well, you could do that too. :-)
<bddebian> Kyral: In some cases probably
<bddebian> Kyral: Set up a buildd :-)
<felipe__> LaserJock, Ok.
<Kyral> bddebian: you know it :D
<Kyral> I'll write up a wikipage later, would you look it over when its done?
<bddebian> Sure
<Kyral> hehe, talk about baptism by fire
<bddebian> heh
<Kyral> isn't there a GCC option to compile for HURD as opposed to Linux?
<Kyral> CARCH or somesuch?
<bddebian> Not necessary
<Kyral> ah
<bddebian> Theres some funky stuff if you want to cross-compile, yes
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> you mean compile for HURD on Linux?
<bddebian> Have you looked at http://hurd.gnufans.org ?
<bddebian> Yes
<Kyral> occassionally
<Kyral> well, seeing as I don't have a Debian system available for compiling now
<bddebian> Anyone have a Breezy kubuntu install?
<Kyral> might as well slowly replace
<Kyral> hmm, very informative bddebian
<Kyral> I have a feeling my reputation "someone who is not CompSci" will be destroyed if I pull this off :D
<bddebian> heh
<crimsun> bah, reputation has nothing to do with it
<Kyral> I have a reputation at school for being someone who hates low-level programming
<Kyral> or theory
<bddebian> I love theory/low-level stuff but I'm an idiot :'-(
<Kyral> I don't like theory because I can't play with it
<Kyral> with code however... :D
<crimsun> err, yes, you can play with theory
* bddebian can play with...  Well nevermind
<crimsun> it's called "writing code"
<Kyral> well, not the way my profs taught it last semester
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> but we just sat in classrooms while he lectured
<Kyral> if they taught it "lab style" I would be much happier
<LaserJock> what? I thought only chemists got labs ;-)
<Kyral> You know what I mean
<LaserJock> well, perhaps one day Edubuntu will be used extensively in uni computer labs for lab style classes
<crimsun> the problem with curricula and teaching is that historically there has to be a standard dissemination for gathering statistics, which means most accredited universities use lectures instead of catering to individual learning styles (also a problem of scale and objectivity)
<Kyral> Yah I know what you mean
<bddebian> Lies, damn lies, and statistics
<Kyral> in my Data Structures class
<Kyral> we had 4 programming assignments
<crimsun> bddebian: so basically just "lies" ;p
<Kyral> I learned more in those 4 assignments than in all the lectures
<Kyral> hell I played Nethack during lectures lol
* LaserJock quivers with the arrow that Kyral just shot in his uni prof wannabe heart ;-)
<Kyral> lol
<bddebian> heh
<crimsun> heh, teaching is a difficult profession
<Kyral> Some people who I help with Linux wonder how the heck I know so much, thiking I'm some 15 year old whizkid
<Kyral> I'm like "Nope, I'm a 20 year old who gets shitty grades and learns by breaking his system over and over again"
<Yagisan> how the hell can an int go from 100 to 0 after a simple health++ ?
* Yagisan found his heisenbug
<crimsun> certain it's not being stomped elsewhere?
<Yagisan> crimsun: pretty certain. I have 1 last line to comment out there to make absolutely sure.
<crimsun> that sort of a jump looks eerily like a counter reset
<Yagisan> crimsun: yep. and it's only triggered on linux.
<persia> siretart: I thought bugs were "Fix Committed" on upload, and "Fix Released" on confirmed build.  Am I misinformed?
<bddebian> persia: That should be correct
<siretart> persia: oh, yes. you're right, and I made them fix released to fast
<persia> siretart: No worries.  I'll watch them, and revert if there is an issue.  Thanks for uploading.
<siretart> persia: i testbuilt them on my dapper/amd64 sbuild, and they were fine, so I assume they will build on the buildds as well
<siretart> persia: thank you for the patches!
* Yagisan wishes he had a dual core box
<persia> siretart: Hmmm.  I'd be nice to get another architecture tested, but one can't have everything.  Regarding the patches, I just want to play, and haven't been able to during my holiday due to these bugs :)
<siretart> ;)
<felipe__> Seveas, Do you still mantain the freenx package for ubuntu?
<Seveas> felipe__, 'maintain' is a big word
<Seveas> slh maintains them for kanotix, I only do what's needed to make them work on Ubuntu
<felipe__> Seveas: Ok, does it works on 5.4?
<felipe__> Seveas, *5.04
<Seveas> hmm
<Seveas> I had packages fopr hoary once
<Seveas> but they're very old
<Seveas> and won't work with the latest clients
<felipe__> Seveas, ok
<felipe__> Seveas, thanks anyway
<siretart> felipe__: there is alsa a debian freenx packaging group on debian alioth.
<siretart> felipe__: they were recently asked for a status update. long story short: there won't be proper debs unless upstream makes a big step forward. the current state is a mess
<felipe__> siretart, ok
<Seveas> siretart, upstream has always been a mess....
<alexr> Hi there
<alexr> Anybody from the reviewers team around?
<alexr> Any chance of reviewing https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gramps/+bug/42270 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42270 in gramps "gramps 2.0.11: Upstream Version Freeze exception" [Normal,Confirmed] 
* persia believes that alexr is upstream for gramps
<alexr> persia: yes I am
<alexr> persia: one of them, anyway
<bddebian> Ah, just upload the damn thing :-)
<alexr> bddebian: can you?
<OdyX> Did someone manage to package warsow (very well done and 3D game)? I think it's non-GPL, but could it come in multiverse ?
<LaserJock> bddebian: you looking at gramps?
<bddebian> LaserJock: No :-)
<bddebian> alexr: Probably not without getting in trouble :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: the UVF has been approved
<alexr> LaserJock: The UVF asked to assign the bug to reviewers, which I did.
<alexr> Now I have to get the reviewer look and upload.
<bddebian> OK, let me give it a shot then
<alexr> bddebian: I'll be around for a while, yell if you need me
<bddebian> alexr: OK, thx
<persia> OdyX: Not yet.  Of the packages requested on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates, you can check if they may be planned for debian from http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/requested, and if someone is preparing a package for Ubuntu from http://revu.tauware.de/.  If you would like to prepare a package, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New/Policy.
<LaserJock> bddebian: I'm checking it out too
<OdyX> persia: thank you VERY much for that information. Very valuable (and it's not sarcastic....)... Just one question more: what's the licence policy for universe/multiverse? For that particular game, the engine is GPL, but media not, how can it be done? multiverse ?
<bddebian> OdyX: I think theoretically you could put the engine in universe and the media in multiverse if you can seperate the packages
<bddebian> I think doom-legacy does something like this?
<OdyX> bddebian: OK. But if one depends of the other, why put the engine in universe ?
<persia> OdyX: The engine doesn't usually need to depend on the media, it can Suggest it.  Also, if the media is non-free, please verify that it is redistributable: for many games, this is not the case.
<bddebian> OdyX: Because of the license differences
<OdyX> persia: welll.. source code is only available per e-mail...
<persia> OdyX: Also, if the engine is in universe, and someone creates free content, everyone can be happy :)
<OdyX> persia: they weem to "not" claim GPL.. it's obscure point in lost FAQ...
<OdyX> weem = seem
<felipe__> LaserJock, when I type dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot I get the following message:dpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open debian/changelog to find format: No such file or directory
<felipe__> dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is
<LaserJock> felipe__: where are you running that from?
<felipe__> LaserJock, the /hello2-1.1
<persia> Odyx: difficulty getting the source code is not necessarily a problem, as long as you are allowed to post it publicly upon receipt.  It is unlikely to be accepted without appropriate documentation for debian/copyright.  Your best bet for information is upstream.
<OdyX> persia: I will certainly....
<felipe__> LaserJock, Sorry I was running on the hello directory. Now I ran it from /hello-2.1.1 and I got:parsechangelog/debian: error: badly formatted trailer line, at changelog line 5
<felipe__> dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is
<dholbach> have a nice weekend
<OdyX> persia: but packages have to build under the 3 arches ?
<bddebian> You too dholbach
<LaserJock> cya dholbach
<LaserJock> felipe__: hmm, make sure you have the spaces right, etc. check the ubuntu package changelog if you can't see the problem
<persia> OdyX: There are exceptions, but there has to be a good reason.
<felipe__> LaserJock, Ok
<LaserJock> felipe__: changelogs are pretty particular, make sure the package name is right as well
<OdyX> persia: "game" is probably no good reason, huh ?
<persia> OdyX: It's not that.  More something like a dependency on a specific architectural feature (e.g. the pentium firmware updater), or limitations of use (e.g. MoL (Mac on Linux - although this may change with Intel macs)), etc.
<OdyX> OK. So if I "want" that game in Ubuntu, it has to be compilable on the 3 arches, huh ?
<felipe__> LaserJock, whats a badly fromatted trailer line?
<LaserJock> felipe__: I'm guessing the line with your name, email, and the date
<bddebian> Hmm, 1 lintian error 1 warning in gramps
<alexr> bddebian: WHat is the error?
<bddebian> E: gramps: lengthy-symlink usr/share/gramps/gnome/help/gramps/gramps ../gramps
<bddebian> W: gramps: old-fsf-address-in-copyright-file
<bddebian> Thank symlink is hideous :-)
<bddebian> s/Thank/That
<alexr> bddebian: it symlinks usr/share/gramps/gnome/help/gramps/gramps to usr/share/gramps/gnome/help/gramps
<felipe__> LaserJock, I had one space between my email and the date and it needs two. Now it worked fine
<alexr> bddebian: The warning can probably be ignored, so it's all about the error, right?
<bddebian> alexr: Actually the error isn't really a "major" issue either I dont think
<alexr> bddebian: if you want to, you can grab a new copyright file from debain 2.0.11
<alexr> bddebian: if so then I'd sleep safer if we leave the symlink in place.
<alexr> It's just recursive, to work around yelp/scrollkeeper behavior.
<LaserJock> felipe__: latter on you'll learn an easier way to do changelogs, its called dch :-)
<alexr>  /usr/share/gramps/gnome/help/gramps/gramps -> /usr/share/gramps/gnome/help/gramps
<alexr> bddebian: so that the help is found both in  /usr/share/gramps/gnome/help/gramps and  /usr/share/gramps/gnome/help/gramps/gramps
<LaserJock> bddebian: did you merge the changes from the previous Ubuntu version?
<alexr> This is probably the last release not using gnome-doc-tools.
<alexr> LaserJock: bddebian: please double-check me, but I don't think there were any.
<alexr> LaserJock: bddebian: The 2.0.9.ubuntu.diff only had debian/ dir, and I used that as is.
<felipe__> LaserJock, after typing sudo pbuilder build ../*.dcs I get the following: E: failed to find /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz, have you done <pbuilder create> to create your base tarball yet?
<LaserJock> felipe__: did you create a pbuilder?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Are there any?
<LaserJock> bddebian: actually I don't think so. I got confused by the *.debhelper and gramps.substvar
<felipe__> LaserJock, Humm I missed that step, I'll do it right away
<bddebian> LaserJock: Oh you were right, dh_iconcache was added :-)
<LaserJock> felipe__: it is in the Getting Started chapter
<bddebian> And some build-deps but those look OK now
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah
<felipe__> LaserJock, I got it :oP
<LaserJock> I don't understand why *.debhelper would be in debian/ though, those scripts are automatically generated
<bddebian> LaserJock: Should I upload?
<alexr> LaserJock: I think these are remnants of previous  builds.
<alexr> bddebian: maybe *.debhelper should be removed?
<bddebian> ??
<alexr> gramps.postinst.debhelper  in the debian/
<bddebian> I don't see any debhelper files in gramps-2.0.11/debian  ??
<alexr> OK, never mind then.
<bddebian> Uploaded
<alexr> I see gramps.postinst.debhelper, gramps.postrm.debhelper, and  gramps.prerm.debhelper
<LaserJock> yeah, me too
<alexr> but they are autogenerated and probably won't hurt.
<LaserJock> bddebian: what the heck are you looking at?
<LaserJock> :-)
<alexr> bddebian: can it be that a lintian run removed them for you?
<LaserJock> not lintian, maybe debuild
<alexr> Or clean?
<bddebian> How did you guys build?
<bddebian>  -nc ?
<LaserJock> bddebian: I didn't build, I just unpacked his source
<alexr> For this bug, I just did dpkg-source -b
<alexr> But I also dpkg-buildpackage from the same source before
<alexr> dpkg-source did not clean
<LaserJock> bddebian: did you fix the changelog entry?
<goldenear> OdyX: tu pourrais confirmer le Bug 44423 sur lauchpad stp ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44423 in kde-style-lipstik "Accentuation problem in french desciption" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44423
<alexr> bddebian: so is it sitting some place in incoming now?
<goldenear> oops, wrong channel... sorry guys :)
<goldenear> OdyX is also on #kubuntu-fr...
* alexr steps out for a bit
<bddebian> alexr: No, I forgot to do an -sa give me a sec
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yes because I added dh_iconcache :-)
<alexr> bddebian: so when is gramps 2.0.11 going to be available in the archive?
<LaserJock> alexr: probably a few hours, I'd guess
<alexr> LaserJock: thanks, I'll look for it in a while.
<LaserJock> alexr: you can also watch https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gramps/
<bddebian> Yeah, OK, it got accepted now, so probably a couple hours.  Unless it gets hung up in NEW?
<LaserJock> bddebian: shouldn't go through new, should it?
<bddebian> TBH, I'm not sure how new versions are handled
<crimsun> it will if there are new sources/binaries
<bddebian> That's what I thought
<crimsun> (referring to package names, that is)
<LaserJock> yeah, I see it on dapper-changes already
<LaserJock> bddebian: doh, but shouldn't the version be -0ubuntu2?
<LaserJock> or is it already in Debian
<bddebian> No, it's -1 in Debian afaik
<alexr> It is already in debian.
<alexr> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/gnome/gramps
<LaserJock> ah, I see it. Came in on the 30th
<alexr> Yes, right after we released upstream.
<LaserJock> sweet
<alexr> Why is it ubuntu2?
<LaserJock> alexr: because you are ubuntu1 ;-)
<bddebian> alexr: Because I added dh_iconcache to debian/rules
<alexr> Ah. SHould I have been ubuntu0?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> you did good, although you had unstable where there should have been dapper in that line
<alexr> What is dapper-changes? Is that your mailing list?
<LaserJock> alexr: yep
<alexr> Where did I have unstable?
<alexr> What file?
<LaserJock> in the changelog
<alexr> Right.
<alexr> LaserJock: can't hide from the fact that I use Debian :-)
<LaserJock> alexr: hehe
<alexr> Is there any tool to add a proper changelog entry:
<alexr> I do it manually, hence the screwup.
<LaserJock> alexr: did you use dch ?
<alexr> No, that's it I guess.
<LaserJock> alexr: it still puts in the Debian version and info by default, I don't think it has been Ubuntuized
* alexr gone for a whil
<felipe__> where does pbuilder creates the chroot enviroment?
<tritium> felipe__: under /var
<crimsun> siretart: ping
<felipe__> tritium, what if I already have a /var/chroot there?
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<LaserJock> felipe__: /var/chroot/pbuilder/
<felipe__> I have to go. Bye everyone
<LaserJock> hi \sh
<\sh> moins
<crimsun> 'lo
<crimsun> 'night bddebian
<crimsun> rather, "later"
<bddebian> :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-18
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> why are there still more than 10K bugs open? :)
<crimsun> I'm trying dood, I'm trying
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/international/news/20060512p2g00m0in033000c.html
* crimsun chuckles
<tritium> Hi LaserJock.  Sorry I missed you earlier.
<crimsun> looks like you missed him again :p
<Hobbsee> morning all
<ryanakca> G'night Hobbsee :P
<Hobbsee> hehe bye ryanakca
<Yagisan> G'day all
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: just wake up ?
<Hobbsee> something like that
<ryanakca> lol... I'm not leaving.... just saying that it's 20:06 out here...
* Yagisan spent the night chasing heisenbugs
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee
* Hobbsee is jumped upon again
<Hobbsee> hehe...what fun
<ryanakca> hmmm... translating is harder than I thought... since all the programs I use are english...
<Yagisan> ryanakca: yes, my wife tells me how hard translating is. Having tried it myself, I tend to agree, and have more respect for her.
<ryanakca> Yagisan: lol.... what language does she translate to?
<Yagisan> ryanakca: she translates my work stuff to Japanese
<ryanakca> Ouch... sounds tough... I'm working on french... MUCH simpler :)
<Yagisan> ryanakca: need to reverse sentence order, no plurals, no future tense. Not an easy job
* StevenK wishes he knew other languages apart from bad English.
<ryanakca> and programs have special syntax/phrasing... It isn't freeform translation... lots of rules and stuff...
<ryanakca> Thank god theres Rosetta....
<ryanakca> that web interface is a saviour....
<ryanakca> brb... dog wants out...
<ryanakca> back
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: japanese has no plurals or future tense?  i'd forgotten about that...
<tseng> hi
<ryanakca> no future tense? how does that work out?
<Yagisan> ryanakca: present & future tense is the same to them
<ryanakca> wow... so I'm walking the dog could mean that I will walk the dog or I'm presently walking the dog? heh... confusing :P
<StevenK> I suspect it could be determined by context.
<ryanakca> yeah....
<Yagisan> ryanakca: eg watashi wa omise ni ikimasu. I will go to the shop. watashi wa omise ni ikimasu. I am going to the shop. How do you tell. by context comes to mind, but you need to pick up the implied parts too.
<StevenK> Hah, I was right.
<Yagisan> StevenK: partially
<ryanakca> heh... interesting
<Yagisan> StevenK: sometimes you can't tell by context, as Japanese is a very ambiguous language.
<Yagisan> StevenK: it is implied or assumed you know much of what they are talking about
<ajmitch> hi
<StevenK> But if you don't, you're stuffed.
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch.
<Yagisan> StevenK: this is a favorite of mine. When you want them to do something they don't want to eg buy a service contract
<Yagisan> StevenK: they never say no, instead you get
<Yagisan> StevenK: chotto musukasi desu ne - literally "it's a liitle bit difficult", what they mean is "No bloody way"
<zul> heylo
<ajmitch> hi zul
<zul> hey ajmitch how goes the battle?
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<Yagisan> ajmitch: how about a break from ubuntu work, and look for my heisenbugs instead
<ajmitch> which is also ubuntu work?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch, Yagisan
<Yagisan> ajmitch: not today. future work yes, but not today
<Yagisan> G'day bddebian
<ajmitch> what are the heisenbugs?
<ajmitch> or can you not say, since that would violate observability?
<zul> fine dont say hi to me...*pout*
<bddebian> Hi zul
<zul> hey bddebian
<bddebian> I didn't "see" you yet :-)
<zul> sure sure..
<Yagisan> zul: sorry - my daughter is puking so I'm distracted. Hi
<zul> hehe..
<bddebian> Ewww
<zul> Hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> all night shes been doing it :(
<bddebian> Vomiting children are never any fun :-(
<Yagisan> ajmitch: basically it is observed that some values that are initialised to 100, and *never* touched again, are somehow 0 when compared.
<ajmitch> impressive
<ajmitch> what code is this in?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: that deng game that I'm cleaning up
<ajmitch> ah
<Hobbsee_away> Yagisan: haha great.
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yet it works on mac and windows
* Yagisan wants to cry
<crimsun> ajmitch: shouldn't be the kernel. There haven't been any strange updates to ac97/intel8x0.
<crimsun> ajmitch: sorry
<crimsun> Hobbsee_away: ^
<Hobbsee_away> crimsun: okay.  seems to have been something with ndiswrapper or something really odd...
<Hobbsee_away> it seems to be okay now...
<Hobbsee_away> we'll see :)
<crimsun> ok, good.
<crimsun> sound makes me weep, ya know, so please don't frighten me =)
<Hobbsee_away> hehe
<Hobbsee_away> crimsun: but you're so good at troubleshooting it :D
<crimsun> for values of good approaching insanity...
<Yagisan> ajmitch. does the order of .c files mater in the makefile ? I doubt it, but, well it would be nice to pick up a health bottle without being punished with instant death.
<ajmitch> it shouldn't matter
<Yagisan> ajmitch: didn't think so.
<jabra> so I think I found a bug with dapper
<jabra> not sure if I need to report it
<Hobbsee> jabra: if it's not already there, report it
<jabra> k
<jabra> tryin to check to see if it is right now
<jabra> not sure if this is a bug or a fix
<jabra> so I have a broadcom 44 and broadcom wifi card
<jabra> nope nm
<jabra> it is a bug that will be filled
<jabra> filed
<crimsun> jabra: note that with 2.6.15-23.35, there are updates for bcm43xx
<jabra> right I'm using b44
<jabra> the issues is flaky connecttion
<crimsun> yeah, don't know anything about b44
* bddebian sees lots of bugs posted for bcmXXX though :-(
<jabra> there are issue with bcm43xx but i'm not even using it
<jabra> ok nevermind
<jabra> same thing happnes when I'm in xp
<jabra> so I gotta call my isp instead of a bug filing
<jabra> thanks
<bddebian> persia: You here?
<persia> bddebian: Yes - just banging my head against the lack of comments or consistent indentation in vegastrike :)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> persia: Didn't I upload gweled?
<persia> bddebian: No.  gweled is fairly broken in several ways, and my latest patch didn't apply cleanly (outdated).  It's near the bottom of my priority list, so I haven't fixed it.  I should make a comment in the bug :)
<bddebian> Oh, OK, sorry.  I'm losing track :-)
<persia> bddebian: No worries.  Also, could you please reassign #33573?  I don't have permission.
<bddebian> Is that gnome-bluetooth?
<persia> bddebian: Yep.  When I try to assign to "Nobody" instead of "MOTU Reviewers Team", it is a NOP.
<bddebian> OK, I'll try
<bddebian> Hmm, didn't work for me either
<Laser_away> bddebian: hmm, you got to labplot before I did :)
<bddebian> Sorry man
<bddebian> You snooze, you lose ;-P
<LaserJock> hehe, well my inlaws are here so I can't devote as much time to bug fixing :-)
<bddebian> Ignore them like I do :-)
<LaserJock> I am, they are over at the kitchen table right now :-)
<LaserJock> what about xcircuit
<ajmitch> just leave them all to bddebian
<bddebian> I was trying to ping Kamion to see if he would get pissed if I just uploaded it :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: have you requested a sync?
<LaserJock> bddebian: I don't think so, the UVFe was approved
<bddebian> ajmitch: It's a new package from upstream
<bddebian> Jumping Debian
<ajmitch> why should he care then?
<bddebian> I dunno, seems like I'm always getting in trouble for shit :-)
<ajmitch> if it's universe, and doesn't break the archive, then it should be ok
<bddebian> OK, I'm on it then
* ajmitch jumped several versions past debian for zope-zwiki
* bddebian copy/pastes this conversation to show to people that yell at him :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: it looked pretty good to me. I haven't built it yet
<ajmitch> of course debian had bugs filed with no response about new upstream versions, etc
<bddebian> LaserJock: It works great afaict
<bddebian> ajmitch: I think tuxmaniac intends to ITP it for Debian
<bddebian> Or at least send the packaged version over for them
<ajmitch> if it's in debian, then there's no ITP involved
<LaserJock> ajmitch: it is up for adoption
<ajmitch> right
<bddebian> That's what I meant, sorry
<ajmitch> still not an ITP
<LaserJock> so whatever the "I'm going to adopt it" is
<ajmitch> you have to know your TLAs to work in debian
<LaserJock> bddebian: did you happen to test it on ppc?
<bddebian> No, I don't have a PPC :-(
<ajmitch> how about sparc64 or ia64? :)
<bddebian> You can buy me one of each of those too :-)
<LaserJock> well there is a bug open about ppc and I wondered if it would be fixed with the new version
<bddebian> I believe it will but I don't know for sure
<bddebian> It definetly fixes the menu bug
<LaserJock> yeah, it would at least be good to have a newer version for the reporter to try
<bddebian> It's up
<LaserJock> bddebian: I see it, great
* ajmitch spots the xcircuit upload & yells at bddebian 
<bddebian> heh
<`6og> lol ajmitch - i was about to say that ;P
<bddebian> I don't care about you guys, I fear the wrath of Kamion, mdz, elmo, etc ;-P
<ajmitch> you don't care about us?
<ajmitch> I'm deeply hurt now
<bddebian> Bah, I love you guys man
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> as if ;)
<bddebian> And that's pretty tough for a right-wing nutjob to admit ;-P
<ajmitch> you're right-wing? hah
<bddebian> Well next to most of you I'm Rush Limbaugh :-)
<LaserJock> Go Rush! ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: nah, I'd still call you a flaming liberal ;)
<LaserJock> which Burgundiva told me the other day, was not an insult in Canada ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's because canada is full of communists anyway :)
<bddebian> Canukistan? ;-P
* bddebian hides
<ajmitch> don't worry
<ajmitch> we've got Comrade Helen for a leader here :)
* ajmitch looks at the bug list
<bddebian> Why, you aren't going to fix anything anyway
* bddebian runs away
<ajmitch> true
* ajmitch gives up & revokes his key
<bddebian> bah
* ajmitch gives all his packages over to bddebian to maintain ;)
<bddebian> Yeah right :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, I've got a zope-zms unmet dep bug on my list. ajmitch you fixing that?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how's it on your list?
<bddebian> He's hitting all the zope ones
<ajmitch> bug 41550 is assigned to me
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41550 in zope-zms "[UNMETDEPS]  zope-zms has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41550
<ajmitch> it *may* get removed from dapper, not sure
<ajmitch> barely maintained in debian, at least
<LaserJock> ajmitch: zope-zms is on my list of science bugs I think
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> but it's just waiting on packages in NEW
<ajmitch> as are the rest of the zope uninstallables
<LaserJock> ok, cool
<ajmitch> I should harass kamion again
<LaserJock> I have motuscience as a bug contact for ~ 400 source packages
<LaserJock> the only problem is that there is a science package named "boot" so I'm getting a bunch of bugs about boot problems :(
<ajmitch> that's good
<ajmitch> then we've at least got someone watching that package who can reassign the bugs
<LaserJock> heh, true. I hadn't thought of that
<LaserJock> as long as I don't have a package called "X"
<LaserJock> :-)
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> the only problem has been that I can't unsubscribe a team
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Hi again.. Good morning
<bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Uploaded your xcircuit :-)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Yeah saw it.. And seems like the thanks is always flowing in the opposite direction
<bddebian> ??
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: no yaar!! You always say thanks to me for my wrk..
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Actually I should be saying thanks for encouraging this n00b
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> We're all n00bs in some way or another :-)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: :))
<tuxmaniac> So its night there isnt it?
<bddebian> Sort of.  Technically it's morning ;-)
<bddebian> 1am
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Oh ok
<LaserJock> hi tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Saw my guru's work??
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: yeah, I had to tell him to do it ;-)
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: he has changed status of Xcircuit to fix committed
* tuxmaniac grabs his thanks from bddebian and gives it to LaserJock 
<LaserJock> no no, the thanks does belong to you tuxmaniac
<LaserJock> and I'm ver gratefull for bddebian's help
<tuxmaniac> anyways.. lets all work for Community
<tuxmaniac> no personal pleasure involved.. though anything and everything will have some selfishness
<tuxmaniac> like bddebian 's karma of 50K :D
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I'm in it for the money
<LaserJock> :-)
<tuxmaniac> :))
<bddebian> Not anymore they knocked me down to 20 some K :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: money? where??
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: I was about to ask that!! But thought it was out of topic
<tuxmaniac> :)
<ajmitch> never
* ajmitch is a poor, poor student
* tuxmaniac is a poor embedded software professional :)\
<ajmitch> hehe
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm a grad student with a grad student wife that just graduated
<LaserJock> so that is like way poor
<ajmitch> yeah I've got a friend like that
<ajmitch> except his wife is sick, he's got 4 kids
<ajmitch> so they're even poorer
<LaserJock> yikes, I don't have any kids
* bddebian has 3 and better get his butt to bed.. :-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> night bddebian :)
<bddebian> Gnight folks..
<bddebian> Keep up the good work! :-)
<bddebian> And thanks again tuxmaniac ;-P
* tuxmaniac wonders if this is a ubuntu-poverty channel
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> the rich people are the ones who don't have time for such frivolities :)
<LaserJock> I bet -devel has all the rich ones :-)
<LaserJock> notice that sabdfl doesn't hang out here often ;-)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> -devel has the ones who are truly whipped :)
<ajmitch> with the hours they put in...
<LaserJock> hi G0SUB
<crimsun> oh geez, 1 June is right around the corner :/
<LaserJock> crimsun: yes, although I'll be glad to get it done
<LaserJock> this is my first complete release, and it has been long
<crimsun> this one certainly is going to have been long, although I surely will not miss what I had to do with vlc for Breezy.
<crimsun> that was a three-day stint with no sleep wrestling with wxwidgets2.6 and finally throwing in the towel and reverting to wxwindows2.4
<LaserJock> uggh
<crimsun> and of course, there are /still/ complaints about its ugly interface in breezy ;)
<Toadstool> hi all
<phanatic> hi people
<ivoks> hi
<freeflying> crimsun: hi
<zakame> hi phanatic ivoks freeflying crimsun
<phanatic> hey zakame
<freeflying> zakame: hey
<siretart> crimsun: pong
<siretart> morning
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<siretart> heyho ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hi siretart
* Hobbsee looks around for a likely uploader
<Hobbsee> not yet though :)
<siretart> hi Hobbsee
* ajmitch hides
<kgoetz> Hobbsee: you just have a Jabber account die?
<Hobbsee> kgoetz: ah, yeah
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe...i'll be nice to you this time, and not make you do it :P
<Hobbsee> you finished the last lot yet?
<ajmitch> of course
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi StevenK
<ajmitch> poor Hobbsee, always getting squashed
<StevenK> Hence why she's so little!
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Mithrandir stretches Hobbsee a bit
* Hobbsee squeals - now that's not nice Mithrandir!
* kgoetz lols
* kgoetz imagines a 2.5m tall Hobbsee
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I'm just bringing you back to your proper shape!
* Hobbsee turns into HobbseeTriangle
<ajmitch> hi Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> hiya ajmitch
<tseng> hi Mithrandir
<Hobbsee> hi tseng
<Mithrandir> hiya to you too tseng
<tseng> hi Hobbsee
* tseng downloads SuSE 10.1 to compare mono love
* StevenK watches qdvdauthor segfault on exit.
<StevenK> Such quality software.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<StevenK> :-[ WRITE@LBA=80030800h failed with SK=2h/ASC=04h/ACQ=08h] : Resource temporarily unavailable
<StevenK> And there's another coaster. If it was a CD I wouldn't care. DVD media is a little more expensive. :-/
<Yagisan> StevenK: burner ?
<StevenK> Yagisan: Huh?
<Mithrandir> StevenK: dvd-rws rock.
<Yagisan> StevenK: burner working ok ? I had a burn that did similar things. ended up using it as a coffee holder now
<Yagisan> s/burn/burner
<StevenK> It just burnt sucessfully.
<StevenK> It does this every 25th burn or so.
<ajmitch> night all
<Yagisan> night ajmitch
<Hobbsee> night ajmitch
* Hobbsee contemplates going to bed before 3am tonight
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: why ? all the cool people never sleep
<Hobbsee> hehe...true...
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: remember my heisenbug ?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: yep
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: the root coause is, a routine called P_Init
<Hobbsee> kgoetz: jabber seems to be up and down like a yoyo - seems to keep just dropping out
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: ah, great.  which does?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: it exists. It is called. It is built and linked correctly. Yet it never actually runs :(
<Hobbsee> ah...
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I made it only print out "Gremlins!" and yet - still nothing happens
<Hobbsee> hehe
<kgoetz> Hobbsee: i have one account that wont stay connected, the others file
<Hobbsee> gremlins seems like a good thing to print :P
<Hobbsee> kgoetz: ah okay... .au by any chance?
<kgoetz> spot on
<Hobbsee> they must be having trouble with their server
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I swear it just mocks me for the fun of it. At least it was an incentive to try an learn C
<kgoetz> again :/
<Hobbsee> hehe
<StevenK> Yagisan: I would have pegged you as knowing C.
<Yagisan> StevenK: well, I can generally understand the code, but I don't really write it, nor have I ever formally studied it. I was always a lower level language person.
<siretart> hardware sucks
* siretart just identified a bar of bad ram
<kelmo> lucky ram is cheap enough these days
<siretart> yeah, but being sure that 4 bars of 128mb for your spare box where you want to play with xen and stuff is sufficiently okay, is expensive
<phanatic> how could i umount a filesystem, when it says "device busy" (this is a proc filesystem mounted temporarily for a chroot environment)
<siretart> hey kelmo, btw :)
<kelmo> umount -l, maybe
<phanatic> kelmo: i'll try it
<kelmo> lazy umount is handy sometimes ;-)
<kelmo> hi siretart ;)
<siretart> phanatic: make sure that you run fuser on the fs first
<phanatic> kelmo: it was umounted
<phanatic> siretart: what's that?
<siretart> phanatic: just to make sure no processes are blocking the device. lazy umount will afaik always succeed, but the results may be.. interesting
<kelmo> usually you can lsof +d /dir
<kelmo> +D
<phanatic> siretart: thanks. how shall i use that 'fuser' command?
<kelmo> lsof +D /dir
<kelmo> to see whats happening there
<siretart> or lsof, yes
<siretart> phanatic: I usually run fuser -k /mnt/foobar
<kelmo> fuser -k to kill
<phanatic> lsof lists nothing and it still says device busy
<phanatic> i'll try fuser
<phanatic> i get still the same "device busy"
<siretart> hm
<siretart> perhaps the process is state 'D'?
<persia> phanatic: /proc is special.  You probably want to stop all processes in the chroot (including the initial bash, or whatever) before unmounting.
<phanatic> persia: as i said, i already exited from the chroot (i used chroot mnt/ /bin/sh)
<kelmo> siretart: in other news, i've hacked in a crude roaming solution, that is almost entirely managed by ifupdown
<siretart> kelmo: I had a look at your 'roaming' branch
<kelmo> siretart: when, though?
<siretart> kelmo: but this wasn't really what I described. I wanted a tiny new package, which depends on wpasupplicant. not another wpasupplicant package which introduces additional behavior
<siretart> or did I miss something?
<kelmo> yes, you forgoit i am crazy, and have totally changed tact about that solution
<kelmo> that was proof of concept only
<kelmo> no i persure something which fits in with current stuff
<kelmo> now*
<siretart> aha?
<kelmo_lap> siretart, http://rafb.net/paste/results/YtJEVw34.html
<kelmo> that will interchange between those 3 network stanza's
<kelmo> there are some improvements to ifdown that could make this cleaner, i has spoken very briefly to aj about that
<kelmo> ifupdown*
<kelmo> and need to do a writeup and email it ti him
<kelmo> also, i want wpa_supplicant to pass a shell variable to the action script, a network "alias"
<kelmo> or rather, a ssid alias
<kelmo> for the purpose of mapping some network configuration from the interfaces file, for example
<siretart> I don't get right now how this is supposed to work
<siretart> I thought for this kind of stuff, you'd need a 'mapping-script'
<kelmo> siretart: i did not paste the package diff, just the idea
<kelmo> the mapping is done by an action script
<siretart> uuuh, now I see
<siretart> to be honest, I had something else in mind. without the need of any action script at all
<siretart> well. thinking again about this.. hmm
<siretart> this could be a nice solution as well..
<siretart> hmm. I have to think about this
<kelmo> i think it is
<kelmo> i just need to remove some ugly bits over time
<thesaltydog> I need to let a package build-depend on libgtk2-perl (>= 1:1.100-1) if in Debian, or from >=1.100-1 if in Ubuntu. How can I write that line in the control file?
<siretart> kelmo: what change to ifupdown could make this nicer?
<siretart> kelmo: you mentioned talking with aj about this
<kelmo> siretart: not marking the state of the master roaming interface in the ifstate file
<kelmo> ie, when you first ifup to start the daemon
<kelmo> that iface is "up"
<kelmo> so you have to somehow workaround that
<kelmo> i used --force option in the action script
<kelmo> with manual inet method for master iface
<siretart> kelmo: ah, now I remember why I wanted to do it this way. because of this
<siretart> kelmo: I was rather thinking about starting the supplicant by the init script, and leaving ifupdown alone. at first
<kelmo> siretart: thats what i previously did
<siretart> kelmo: then, the action script ifups or ifdowns the interface
<kelmo> siretart: but this seems much more comfortable
<siretart> kelmo: what problem did you see here?
<siretart> more comfortable in what way?
<kelmo> an extra system service, two more conffiles to change/maintain
<siretart> yes, but thats an extra package. thats okay for me
<kelmo> siretart: major problem:
<kelmo> hotplugging
<kelmo> an action script won't wait for the control socket to appear
<kelmo> ifupdown's allow-hotplug fixes that very well
<siretart> kelmo: can you point me to some documentation what this 'allow-hotplug' stanza is supposed to do excatly?
<kelmo> and some cards don't like the -w option of wpa_sup
<siretart> it is still a bit like vodoo to me
<kelmo> siretart: not voodoo
<kelmo> $ zgrep  allow-hotplug /usr/share/doc/udev/*
<kelmo> /usr/share/doc/udev/README.Debian.gz:only on interfaces marked with the "allow-hotplug" statement.
<kelmo> /usr/share/doc/udev/README.Debian.gz:E.g: "allow-hotplug eth0" instead of the usual "auto eth0".
<siretart> ah, in udev. okay. I'll look
<kelmo> siretart: this was my basis for refuting your hotplugging support
<kelmo> in a previous discussion
<siretart> ok
<siretart> now I see
<siretart> it is very similiar to what ubuntu does wrt to 'auto' interfaces
<kelmo> sure
<siretart> you're right that what I propose isn't too nice wrt to hotpluggable interfaces..
<kelmo> no, and basically, in the end, its almost exactly what i proipose now
<siretart> but leaving that to ifupdown just confuses it with interface states and can cause subtle inconsistencies
<kelmo> yes, i agree there too
<siretart> hmmhmm. now where do we go from this point?
<kelmo> siretart: dunno, I am thinking about sneaking this into the experimental package for next upload
<kelmo> as previous behaviour is preserved
<kelmo> then start some discussion about it
<kelmo> if its crap, people will say so
<kelmo> we could reinstate the old init script in another package . . .
<siretart> kelmo: I like the idea of testing it in experimental, but not that much in having it in the 'wpasupplicant' package
<kelmo_lap> impossible to split this solution apart
<kelmo_lap> insane, even, it hurts noone if they dont use it
<kelmo_lap> actively/consciously use it
<kelmo_lap> you can split the good ol init script apart, however
<kelmo_lap> i just _really_ dislike that
<kelmo_lap> (the init script, not the split)
<kelmo_lap> how about i put them both side by side in the archive to rot for a while
<siretart> hm, i see
<siretart> well, since you don't introduce any conffiles with your approach, testing it in experimental seems a good idea to me
<kelmo_lap> well, there is one conffile at this time
<kelmo_lap> and that is what could be done within wpa_supplicant upstream
<kelmo_lap> ssid "alias"
<siretart> err which conffile do you mean?
<kelmo_lap> and secreting that as a shell variable to wpa_cli
<kelmo_lap> siretart, i do a regex search for an ssid alias in /etc/wpa_supplicant/profiles
<kelmo_lap> for multi word ssid's, for example, you cannot have a mutli name interfaces in the interfaces file
<kelmo_lap> or strange characters
<kelmo_lap> and some networks will use a common network configuration
<kelmo_lap> therefore it is useful to map them to the same "alias"
<siretart> right. so we need some kind of 'mapping'
<kelmo_lap> this is what i've implemented:
<siretart> and we encounter again that ifupdown isn't the solution for what we actually want to do
<kelmo_lap> siretart, http://rafb.net/paste/results/sLHdCX63.html
<kelmo_lap> that would dissappear if one would work on a patch to upstream
<kelmo_lap> as already discussed previously on the hostap mailing list
<siretart> kelmo_lap: what should the patch do, and is /e/n/i copied there on purpose?
<kelmo_lap> siretart, so you can see the mappings
<siretart> ah ok
<kelmo_lap> siretart, i've said this twice tonight:
<kelmo_lap> to screte an ssid alias to wpa_cli
<kelmo_lap> secrete*
<kelmo_lap> in the form of a shell variable
<siretart> it might be perhaps better to first name the ifupdown name and then the essid, though
<kelmo_lap> siretart, yep, okay
<siretart> ah, ok. in the meantime, we can still learn the current ssid by calling wpa_cli status in the action script
<kelmo_lap> yes
<kelmo_lap> the action script does this:
<kelmo_lap> gets ssid and bssid
<kelmo_lap> serches profiles file for mapping to either ssid or bssid
<kelmo_lap> searches*
<kelmo_lap> then tries, ifup $IFACE=$MAP
<kelmo_lap> if not found
<siretart> try dhcp
<kelmo_lap> it simply uses ifup $IFACE=$SSID
<kelmo_lap> if that fails
<kelmo_lap> then we have some fallback
<kelmo_lap> yes, like dhcp or so
<kelmo_lap> or noact
<siretart> ok
<kelmo_lap> guessnet does this:
<kelmo_lap> suggests a default fallback interfaces mapping
<kelmo_lap> which is just iface $IFACE inet dhcp
<bddebian> Heya gang
<siretart> hey bddebian
<kelmo_lap> hi bddebian
<persia> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya siretart, kelmo_lap, persia
<siretart> kelmo_lap: in which part is this approach superior to what we already have? I remember felix (and others) complaining about 'breaking' his 'sweet' ifplugd setup :/
<kelmo> siretart: why do we need ifplugd when wpa_supplicant already knows the state of the iface . . .
<kelmo> why do we need guessnet when a simple script as an argument can do the interface mapping
<kelmo> +argument to wpa_cli
* siretart never used ifplugd nor guessnet for wifi interfaces
<kelmo> we know the ssid, we know the state
<kelmo> we connect
<siretart> but ppl seem to be a bit frightened about these action scripts
<kelmo> siretart: this is how gentoo's baselayout works
<kelmo> it is a proven method of operation
<kelmo> imo
<kelmo> but then, that is very subjective ;-)
<siretart> well, gentoo doesn't use ifupdown. so I don't think this comparison is valid
<kelmo> well, this is my best effort to remedy that void
<siretart> right
<siretart> I think what you are trying is a good idea and definitly worth experimenting with
<kelmo> siretart: i absolutely understanbd this is no replacement for capable and low level tools
<kelmo> such as network-manager
<siretart> but I also think that I at least try to package a 'roaming system service', which uses ifplugd and guessnet directly. I'm curious if these tools can be glued together with a package
<siretart> kelmo: it would be great if n-m could be enhanced by 2 features: static ips and a text only front-end
<siretart> both feature are currently lacking :(
<kelmo> ah well, i don't care much for that at all (WIG package)
<kelmo> and i agree, nm needs some cli tools
<kelmo> i think the focus is on the backend for it right now
<kelmo> and also working closely with driver maintainers to make sure they are reporting the correct info
<siretart> well, I confess, felix last post lowered my motivation in working on that
<kelmo> yes, one reason why i persued this route
<kelmo> as well
<siretart> backend as in 'driver backend' for wpasupplicant?
<kelmo> i was just referring to the backend of n-m
<kelmo> and drivers reporting wpa support levels, state changes etc
<siretart> ah. right
<kelmo> so that no polling hacks, fora specific example, are required to track the state of ipw devices
<kelmo> or madwifi reports to userspace that wpa/wpa2 is supported
<siretart> :)
<kelmo_lap> siretart, ok, here is a possible plan of action for wpasupplicant/roaming:
<kelmo_lap> drop this extra "profiles"confile, and merge the action script and require ifupdown.sh changes into experiemntal
<raphink> hi there
<kelmo_lap> then work on patching wpa_supplicant to support an ssid "alias"
<kelmo_lap> if people want to go ahead with the initscript-centric "WIG" package, that will be unaffected
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I don't think this 'profiles' file should be a conffile at all
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I agree that this is a configuration file, but no conffile
<kelmo_lap> exactly
<siretart> because we EXPECT users to edit it
<kelmo_lap> i don't think it should even *exist*
<siretart> right
<kelmo_lap> so we should forget about it now
<kelmo_lap> that would force/encourage us to work with upstream for a solution to it
<kelmo_lap> or, if not possible, drop the idea alltogether
<kelmo_lap> at the end of the day:
<kelmo_lap> the ifupdown script is primarily for static interfaces stanza's
<kelmo_lap> that is its advertised mode of operation
<kelmo_lap> this is simply a side show
<kelmo_lap> as long is the side show does not interfere with the advertised mode of operation, and we are responsible for maintaining the beast . . .
<siretart> hm
<siretart> true as well..
<siretart> what bothers me is that some ppl are pissed that their working hack from sarge days doesn't  work anymore, and we don't really have a replacements for their cornercases
<siretart> it is still a hack, of course. that what makes me sleep at night. but still I hope that we could provide at least something that fits their cornercases
<kelmo> well, i'll throw up the initscript-centric package
<kelmo> and split it out of wpasupplicant source
<siretart> how about the package name 'wigroamer'?
<kelmo> hehe, yeah
<siretart> :)
<kelmo> i'm not too interested in that approach however
<kelmo> personally interested, that is
<siretart> don't worry
<siretart> I have some other things to fix first, but when time permits, I will do it and put it in our svn
<siretart> it is just that my enthusiasm about this was lowered considerably
<kelmo> okay then
<siretart> and made me repriorize things
<kelmo> good talking with you again, siretart
<kelmo> i will push a new upstream unstable upload tomorrow i think
<kelmo> 0.4.9
<kelmo> if you find changes of mine you don't like in the next 20 or so hours, let me know
<kelmo> hopefully by then, the last upload will have dropped into testing
<kelmo> gn8
<pef> hello
<pef> I'm thinking about leaving ubuntu's world for a while, apart deactivating my launchpad account, what should I do ?
<sladen> you shouldn't need to deactivate your launchpad account
<sladen> but it would be handy to have a "Holiday setting" that stopped emails being generated
<persia> pef: Just let your account lie dormant.  If you ever like, you can recover it, and if not, it doesn't take much space on the server.  You probably want to unsubscribe from all your bugs, and transition any packages.
<siretart> a holiday mode would be great
<siretart> pef: how about writing this to launchpad-users and ubuntu-motu?
<pef> siretart: I'm not so active, I don't think I will miss to someone :]  I just don't want to miss something important, like persia said (bugs, subscribtions, ...)
<persia> My C++ skills are not so strong.  Would anyone be willing to help me figure out how to track down the IO error I am receiving?  Short snippets from the code and backtrace are available from http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13909.  The section commented out is the original code, although it didn't use alutCreateBufferFromFileImage().
<sladen> pef: I've filed:  https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/44542
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44542 in launchpad "Request: add a "Holiday mode" to temporaily turn off email sending" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<pef> sladen: nice :)
<persia> nevermind.  malloc() is my friend.
<siretart> sladen: wow. thanks (subscribing there now)
<persia> siretart: I'm just completing final cleanup and testing on the vegastrike openal crasher (non-deb make worked!).  Do you know of any others that need code changes (while I'm familiar)?
<siretart> persia: wow. you're me hero!
<siretart> persia: no, I don't know about packages with similar problems. I'm quite surprised why vegastrike is suffering from this at all
<siretart> persia: btw, I prepared the openal package for the next transition: libopenal1. upstream svn has already tagged it like that. but it seems that we don't need to rebuild again, since there are no file conflicts this time. at least I hope
<persia> siretart: The code was using the deprecated sound functions in the ugliest way imaginable :).  Upstream is focused on the OGRE transition, and asked for vegastrike to be omitted from sarge.  This is low on their priority list.
<siretart> persia: interesting. I know that openal is a bit in flux
<siretart> persia: in fact, the openal implementation for linux is lagging way behind. upstream tries to keep up with the openal 1.1 spec
<persia> siretart: Again?  Before Dapper?  We broke trigger, torcs, schorched3d, and vegastrike last time, although the work on sear and crystalspace was needed anyway.
<siretart> persia: nono, in no way in dapper
<siretart> persia: I'm preparing it for debian. perhaps I can get it into experimental
<siretart> persia: but this is in no way a dapper thing.
* persia removes fingernails from teeth
<siretart> persia: the transition was only done because the openal version before was really really ancient with many other problems
<siretart> I didn't want you to be scared ;)
<persia> siretart: I'm really happy about the transition.  Most of the games were crashing strangely, without an explanation, although they worked better without sound.  This seems more stable (now if only X hadn't started to crash in the last couple weeks...)
<siretart> persia: the package was really orphaned in debian. the version before was some random cvs snapshot, not really supported, broken shlib file, open rc bugs for a long time
<siretart> so I took it over
<persia> siretart: Many thanks for the adoption.  It does seem better now.
<siretart> :)
<persia> siretart: debdiff attached to bug #44068
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44068 in vegastrike "Starting vegastrike --> SDL Parachute Deployed" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44068
* imbrandon pokes bddebian
<crimsun> siretart: hi, several people have been confused by /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.modes; it would be useful to note explicitly that wpa-psk and wpa-passphrase both should be used /without/ double-quotes ("), which is a clarification from wpa_supplicant.conf(5)
<siretart> crimsun: now I get a bit confused. afaik wpa_supplicant.conf does not talk about " at all?
<crimsun> siretart: in the examples in wpa_supplicant.conf(5), psk is used with "s
<siretart> crimsun: well, right. but it talks about wpasupplicant.conf only, and not about /e/n/interfaces
<crimsun> siretart: right, so /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.modes should be modified to note that /e/n/i wpa-p{sk,assphrase} should /not/ include "s
<siretart> crimsun: ah. right. thats a good idea. could you please make this change in our svn?
<crimsun> siretart: will do
<siretart> ok
<LaserJock> anybody know of any info on the specing process?
<siretart> is daniele favara  around?
<siretart> LaserJock: what do you want to know?
<LaserJock> siretart: I was wondering what happens at the dev summit. So people write specs on LP/wiki and then does somebody organize them for review?
<ivoks> and... for rest of us that weren't lucky to get a sponsor, will you be on IRC? :)
<LaserJock> and then who reviews/approves them TB
<siretart> LaserJock: in principle yes. in montreal, there was a reviewing session at the end of each day
<siretart> LaserJock: then specs where approved or set back to 'needs more work' with comments left on the wiki
<Kyral> ah that was a fun day, the Love Day :P
<Kyral> When do specs have to be written by?
<siretart> Kyral: before reviewing, i'd guess
<Kyral> siretart: okay, rephrase
<LaserJock> well, I've got to ge my karma up and bddebian steals all my bug karama, and then I'm unilingual so translations are no good
<Kyral> when is the summet?
<LaserJock> June 18-24
<siretart> Kyral: at the begining of UBZ, there were some presorting of specs. specs which ppl (canonical ppl I think) found worth to be discussed. for these specs, BoF were scheduled
<Kyral> siretart: I know, I wish I could have stayed beyond the Love Day
<Kyral> damn school lol
<siretart> Kyral: even if you don't make it to paris, I think it would be perhaps best to get your spec prepared before the meeting, so that perhaps bofs about it could be scheduled
<Kyral> Well, right now only bddebian has agreed to help lol
<Kyral> I wish I could be in Paris, but no cash....
<Kyral> I still have to put the pictures I took from the Love Day up on my webspace someplace....
<LaserJock> I don't think there wil be a Love Day this time
<Kyral> yah well, I'd be mad if you guys partied without me!
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I don't really party anyway. :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, and I need to figure out what to drink in Paris, I've heard the water isn't great
<ogra> love day was in wiesbaden on 6th of may this time
<ogra> (on linuxtag)
<Kyral> You are going LJ?
* ogra hopes LJ is sponsored now :)
<Kyral> for DevTeam?
<ogra> for the trip
* Kyral looks blankly
<Kyral> Oh well
<Kyral> I'll be working so
<ogra> LaserJock, btw partying the last night after all specs and the work are done is mandatory
<Kyral> and trying to port Ubuntu to HURD :P
<ogra> LaserJock, its your duty to party with us ;)
<Kyral> hehe
<Kyral> Go LJ
<Kyral> I'll work my way onto MOTU with my HURD work :D
* Kyral flashes a thumbs up at LaserJock
<ogra> LaserJock, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/UbzGallery/CIMG0279.html http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/UbzGallery/CIMG0280.html ;)
<Kyral> and now, a gaming I will go
<LaserJock> ogra: I haven't gotten an email but a reliable source told me yesterday I was on the list ;-)
<LaserJock> hehe, jdub the party master
<LaserJock> I wonder if the wild elmo gets crazy :-)
<sladen> LaserJock: ...you'll find out in a month
<LaserJock> true
<ogra> sladen, so will we see you in paris ? or is that just to near for a paul sladen to even bother to travel ?
<LaserJock> hmm, I just realized, I don't really have a computer to bring
<ivoks> :)
<sladen> ogra: answering that would give an unfair advantage to anyone placing bets
<ivoks> lol
<ogra> haha
<ogra> i dont think anybody will have the balls to bet you're not coming this time ...
<ogra> in montreal i'd have had good chances to make a lot of money :)
<sladen> mmm, I should arrange the bets myself and pay for the travel that way!
<ivoks> sladen: or you can wait with me... _ion promised to give me a milion, when he gets it :)
<ivoks> anyone knows what's the price of one night in that hotel?
<ivoks> and why are directions in .doc format? :)
<LaserJock> heh, that's like the promises I made to people to take them when I win a Nobel ;-)
<sladen> ivoks: I wonder if they were downloaded off the hotel's own site
<ivoks> sladen: yes, they are :)
<ivoks> sladen: still, no bedroom price :(
* sladen looks hopefully around to see if anyone's willing to download it, convert it to PDF and then re-open it
<sladen> ivoks: the bedroom price has never bothered me
<ivoks> luck you
<sladen> ivoks: there's a big airport next door with plenty of Terminals to crash in
<ivoks> :)
<sladen> ivoks: and if you take an overnight coach/sleeper train that arrive first thing on Monday morning and leaves last thing on Friday/Saturday evening, you save another 2 nights of accomadation
<ivoks> hm... train...
<ivoks> i didn't think of that :)
<sladen> ivoks: where would you be travelling from?
<ivoks> Zagreb, Croatia
<sladen> ivoks: there used to be a direct sleeper from Budapest to Brussels, but that got pulled Christmas two years ago
<ivoks> i'll take the plane
<sladen> ivoks: http://www.seat61.com/Slovenia.htm , work backwards and miss out the London->Paris section
<sladen> ivoks: probably worth getting across the border to Budapest and then using a cheap-airline
<ivoks> i have germanwings here
<ivoks> from zagreb to paris via stuttgart
<ivoks> budapest isn't that near :)
<ivoks> vienna is closer
<sladen> ivoks: check whether it's Orly or CDG, otherwise you'll end up on the wrong side of Paris
<sladen> ivoks: oooh.
<ivoks> it's CDG
<sladen> ivoks: I didn't know German Wings were now down there;  trains in Eastern Europe are much cheaper than Western europe so it might have been [financially]  worth doing a section on Train followed by a plane
<ivoks> i'll figure out something
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm going to have to learn some French. I was going for German and then they switched cities ;-)
<ivoks> heh, there are more lines from Zagreb then from Paris or London with German Wings :)
<olafura> Is galago going in to dapper
<siretart> olafura: we are in deep freeze mode now
<olafura> It seems strange to have libgalago and not galago-daemon, which makes the lib useless
<ivoks> heh... less than 180 euros from zagreb to paris and back with german wings
<sladen> ivoks: FlyNiki/Air Berlin apparently fly  Schwechat -> CDG
<sladen> bargin, take the german wings;  that's even cheaper
<LaserJock> olafura: you might check wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates which is a list of apps people want packaged
<ivoks> sladen: yes, it is...
<ivoks> sladen: with niki it's 254
<olafura> LaserJock: I already checked it and revu
<LaserJock> olafura: hmm, I see that debian has a package for galago-daemon
<olafura> LaserJock: It looks to me like nobody has complained before and that's why it's not in. Even the galago project built packages for ubuntu
<ivoks> sladen: lol, taxes are 100 on that 180 :)
<ivoks> train looks so nice now :)
<LaserJock> olafura: we would have to break our Feature Freeze to get it in, but if libgalago is really usless without it it might be worthwhile
<LaserJock> ivoks: really? that is insane
<ivoks> LaserJock: right... funny... on price of 18, taxes are 33, and on price of 100, taxes are 18
<ivoks> LaserJock: so, i'm giving up on plane
<LaserJock> unfortunately the train doesn't run under the Atlantic from the US to France ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Hey, what do you mean I steal your karma??
<LaserJock> bddebian: I get you to fix all the bugs, they don't give slave driver karma ;-)
<ivoks> if i don't get it to paris
<ivoks> please, mention that we are getting lots of spam on @ubuntu.com addresses :)
<kapputu> I was told to come here if I wanted to contribute
<kapputu> I want to start looking at source code
<kapputu> C or Python
<LaserJock> kapputu: cool
<crimsun> LaserJock: / olafura: if it's useless, I'd rather see the libs ripped out of universe for Dapper and NEWed for Edgy
<bddebian> LaserJock: So you are saying I try to help you and you diss me eh?? :-)
<kapputu> I code for a living
<kapputu> I just need someone to get me off my lazy bum
<ivoks> :)
* bddebian kicks kapputu into gear ;-)
<kapputu> I need to be assigned some tasks
<LaserJock> bddebian: hehe, well dieties need to be put in their place every once in a while
<kapputu> and be pestered for results initially
<crimsun> kapputu: like squashing bugs? We have 10k of them.
<kapputu> crimsun: sur
<kapputu> sure
<kapputu> I love that
<crimsun> /join #ubuntu-bugs
<bddebian> kapputu: launchpad.net  Pick some bugs and get to it :-)
<bddebian> kapputu: Or here are some real kickers:: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/BugsForExtraPoints
<kapputu> how do I find help understanding the code?
<kapputu> come here?
<bddebian> You said you code for a living?? :-)
<kapputu> yes
<kapputu> Perl
<kapputu> I'm a pretty good programmer but I'm lazy
<kapputu> extremely lazy
<ivoks> kapputu: time to learn python :)
<kapputu> ivoks: yeah I've been doing that
<kbrooks> I want to get an application pacaged
<kapputu> but without looking at code it's difficult
<kbrooks> EasyUbuntu
<bddebian> kapputu: Great, well I'm a lousy programmer but not lazy :-)
<kapputu> there is no such thing as a lousy programmer
<LaserJock> kbrooks: have you talked to robotgeek about that?
<kapputu> with enough effort anyone can be a good programmer
<kbrooks> LaserJock: he's away, at the moment
<bddebian> Nah, I'm kinda braindamaged
<kbrooks> we will be announcing EasyUbuntu 3 today, but before we do that I want to get a .deb out
<kbrooks> so that people don't have to use the terminal "just" to download EasyUbuntu
<LaserJock> kbrooks: hmm, well that isn't exactly giving much notice ;-)
<kbrooks> so... is there a tiny package omewhere with a .py file that i can replace with EasyUbuntu and build and get it working
<ivoks> kapputu: bddebian is local pesimist :)
<bddebian> s/pessimist/realist/
<ivoks> "no one likes me" "i'm lousy"
<ivoks> :)
<bddebian> ivoks: I didn't say no one likes me, I said the main folks don't :-)
<bddebian> I thought LaserJock liked me for fixing all his bugs but apparently I was wrong there too ;-P
* LaserJock hugs bddebian, "I love you man!" ;-)
<bddebian> :-)
<kapputu> a bunch of gay folks
<kapputu> gay as in joyous :-P
<ivoks> kapputu: we even have hug days
<bddebian> LaserJock: BTW, it looks like xcircuit built on all archs.  Have you tried it yet?
<bddebian> Which reminds me, anyone have a PPC handy?
<crimsun> kbrooks: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<LaserJock> bddebian: no, I haven't had a chance to get on the ubuntu box yet with the inlaws here ;-)
<bddebian> gah
<olafura> crimson: LaserJock: It also seems to be useless withought gaim-galago
<crimsun> olafura: ok, then I propose we remove the libs from Dapper.
<crimsun> since upstream already packages for Ubuntu, it's not a problem for Dapper.
<crimsun> in Edgy, we can reNEW them
<olafura> Then we can also have my tomboy-plugins
<LaserJock> crimsun: hmm, so I guess if we left the libs then that could cause problems with the upstream Dapper packages?
<crimsun> LaserJock: it would take more effort to review and NEW the missing ones, and yes, not being able to sync the libs with whatever upstream has because Dapper would have frozen, would be problematic
<crimsun> we're two weeks from release, so we really can't afford either
<LaserJock> hmm, makes sense
<phanatic> hi people
<crimsun> hullo.
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> hey bddebian, thanks for the uploads :)
<bddebian> phanatic: NP, thanks for the work! :-)
<kbrooks> bddebian: can you help me out?
<kbrooks> bddebian: how do i package a python application?
<kbrooks> bddebian: are yo online?
<bddebian> sorry, was away
<bddebian> To be honest, I don't know.  Try pulling something like psyco
<crimsun> kbrooks: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2502851
<kbrooks> okat
<kbrooks> crimsun: thanks
<hub> is there a cmake 2.4.1 for Debian or shall I upload on REVU an updated version?
<hub> there is a 2.3.4
<hub> will upload then
<hub> so I can start trying out KDE4
<kbrooks> crimsun: so  i'm creating a package for easyubuntu, and dh_make asks me a question
<kbrooks> crimsun: "Type of package: single binary, multiple binary, library, kernel module or cdbs?"
<kbrooks> crimsun: cdbs is a option. shall i use that?
<kbrooks> crimsun: are you there?
<crimsun> kbrooks: please, use cdbs and python-distutils instead
<crimsun> kbrooks: there's a section in the packaging guide on cdbs, and I gave you a pointer to the python section of cdbs
<crimsun> kbrooks: they will simplify the process
<kbrooks> crimsun: yup. but i want to create a package
<crimsun> ...which is what cdbs does.
<kbrooks> crimsun: by itself?
<crimsun> yes.
<crimsun> you really will want to read the cdbs section in the packaging guide :)
<kbrooks> ah
<hub> hey raphink
<raphink> salut hub
<hub> raphink: to bad, we missed each other. I was in Mainz on Sunday
<raphink> oh really?
<raphink> couldn't you come to the LT ?
<hub> Desktop Architect Meeting
<hub> LT did finish Saturday, right?
<raphink> yes
<kbrooks> crimsun: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-cdbs.html < does NOT tell me how to use cdbs to *make* a package. :-)
<raphink> we left on sunday morning from wiesbaden
<hub> raphink: so I couldn't
<hub> raphink: I landed Sunday morning in FRA
<raphink> ok
<hub> then S-Bahn to Mainz Hbf
<raphink> ok
* hub attempts pbuilding cmake 2.4.1
<crimsun> kbrooks: yes it does.
<kbrooks> crimsun: why don't I see it?
<crimsun> kbrooks: because you didn't read the packaging guide?
<hub> raphink: my boss offered me to move the flight to arrive sooner to go to LT
<raphink> you refused ?
<hub> raphink: but I couldn't: I had to move house first
<raphink> ah ok
<raphink> :)
<hub> well the last move trip ended at 12:00PM with a flight at 3:00PM
<hub> could have been shorter :-)
<crimsun> kbrooks: scroll to the bottom of http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html and read "Building the Source Package"
<crimsun> kbrooks: the instructions there are valid for _all_ source packages regardless of what method is used (cdbs, quilt, dh_make, yadda yadda)
<kbrooks> crimsun: why? :-)
<crimsun> kbrooks: why what?
<sladen> kbrooks: cdbs is *UTTERLY* lacking in documentation.  If you fancy fighting it for long enough to write a howto, I think it would be appreciated my many many people
<kbrooks> crimsun: why would the instructions be valid for all source packages? arent the methods different?
<Laser_away> sladen: edgy packaging guide will have a much better CDBS section
<kbrooks> sladen: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<kbrooks> seen this?
<crimsun> kbrooks: debuild is valid for everything. It is orthogonal to cdbs, dh_make, etc.
<kbrooks> ah
<kbrooks> ok
<raphink> sladen: I made a small chapter on cdbs in the packaging guide
<sladen> raphink: fantastic
<raphink> well it's not much sladen
<raphink> sladen: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-cdbs.html
<raphink> sladen: we plan to extend the packaging guide in the next versions and make it more complete on these things
<kbrooks> crimsun: O.K., in  control file :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-19
<bddebian> Ack, bpftopcf: command not found??
<phanatic> raphink: ping
<raphink> pong phanatic
<phanatic> raphink: do you have a little time? can i msg you?
<raphink> sure msg me
<lifeless> morning y'all
<tseng> hi lifeless, congrats on 0.8
<lifeless> danke
<bddebian> Hi lifeless, tseng
<tseng> hi
<kbrooks> bbl
<Hobbsee> hi everyone
<Yagisan> G'day all
<Yagisan> anyone with an amd64 box and a few minutes to spare ?
<tuxmaniac> Yagisan: Good morning!!!
<Yagisan> tuxmaniac: G'day. What's up ?
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% uname -m
<StevenK> x86_64
<StevenK> Yagisan: ^
<tuxmaniac> Yagisan: Got my xcircuit status changed to Fix commited.. :) Thanks to bddebian
<Yagisan> StevenK: could you confirm Bug #44100 for me. Any CJK language will do.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44100 in openoffice.org "openoffice.org in dapper lacks canadian english spellcheck" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44100
<Yagisan> crap wrong number
<Yagisan> Bug #44626
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44626 in openoffice.org "Can't Input Japanese Text" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44626
<Yagisan> tuxmaniac: good to hear
<StevenK> Yagisan: You'll need to talk me through it, and my Dapper is a chroot.
<StevenK> My laptop is dapper, but it's i386
<StevenK> Whee. This might hurt. Installing Japanese language support along with openoffice is likely to take a while.
<Yagisan> StevenK: hmm. if a chroot this might be difficult
<Yagisan> StevenK: I change sessions with gdm
<Yagisan> StevenK: perhaps it's best to wait for someone with a full dapper amd64 install
<Yagisan> StevenK: basically it is pick japanese session, load OO.o, try to type, and notice you only get english. followed by smack head into table.
<Yagisan> StevenK: The heisenbug I was tracking down yesterday turned out to be a schroedinbug instead. It should never have worked at all.
<StevenK> Yagisan: And installing ubuntu-desktop in my building chroot might hurt.
<Kyral> Actually.... Hobbsee how do you know I'm not a bot :P We have never actually met or spoken :P
<Yagisan> StevenK: quite possible it may do more then hurt
<Hobbsee> Kyral: i hear it on good authority, by people who know you :P
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> you mean my GPG Key :P
<Hobbsee> Kyral: no, you :P - at LCA and wherever else...
<Hobbsee> er, no, whichever one i mean
<Kyral> UBZ?
<Hobbsee> UDU & UBZ
<Hobbsee> that's it
<Kyral> I wasn't at UDU
<Hobbsee> ah
<Kyral> UBZ yes
<Hobbsee> UBZ then :P'
<Kyral> And I have the pictures to prove it :P
<Hobbsee> grr - my brain's not supposed to work, after going to bed after 2 am 2 nights ina a row!
<Kyral> lol
* Kyral puts some Bawls in an IV and hooks it up to Hobbsee
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: after a week, you'll get used to it
<Hobbsee> heh
<Yagisan> alternatively have kids. you get used to just 1 hour a day
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I think Hobbsee is a little young for that :P
<Hobbsee> eek..no thanks!
* Hobbsee isnt particularly interested in having kids :P
<Kyral> Toldja
<Yagisan> shame
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: how old did you think i am, anyway???
* Hobbsee has been asked if she's got kids, before
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: about my age ~24
<Kyral> 17
<Kyral> :P
* Hobbsee snorts
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: dream on, hehe :D
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: your older !?!
<Kyral> Am I right?
* Yagisan ducks
<Hobbsee> nope
<Hobbsee> :P
* Hobbsee is 87.
<Kyral> wait what is that a nope to
<Kyral> ....
<Kyral> Hobbsee: I know that isn't true
<Hobbsee> :P
<Kyral> I know you are younger than me
<Kyral> <<== 20
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: what year of uni are you ?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: 1st
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: have a year off after year 12 ?
<Hobbsee> nope
<Kyral> 18?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: you'd be between 18 & 21 then
<Hobbsee> turning 18 in july...
<Kyral> see I was right
<Kyral> 17 :P
* Hobbsee often thinks of her age as 19, friends are 19+, work people are 25+, and i've signed a couple of documents syaing that i'm 18 :P
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> FORGERY!! ;P
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: really ? wow, you don't photograph so well
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: haha...
<Kyral> ....Yagisan
<Kyral> RUN
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: almost as bad as me
<Kyral> now :P
<Hobbsee> i thought you were never supposed to say that to a woman!
* Hobbsee hates cameras
<Kyral> You aren't
<Yagisan> Kyral: I've decided today is the day to kill myself
* Kyral pulls a Katana from nowhere
<Kyral> Can I help?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: see, here's evidence - you shouldnt take any pictures of me while you're here...
<Hobbsee> hehehe
<Yagisan> Kyral: well, I'm doing so well by myself ...
<Kyral> I have a very bad picture
<Kyral> of me
<Hobbsee> Kyral: never seen yours...
<Kyral> Lemme dig it out :P
<Yagisan> rereading those last to lines seems well, odd for motu chat
<Yagisan> s/to/two
* Yagisan has a dirty mind
<Kyral> http://clarkson.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2001714&l=782ae&id=21601643
<Kyral> ...
* Kyral smacks Yagisan
<Kyral> BTW look for the idiot flashing the V sign ;P
* Hobbsee smacks Yagisan as well
<Kyral> oh sorry
<Kyral> I used the blade side of the Katana :P
<Hobbsee> you really do have a deathwish today, dont you Yagisan!
<Yagisan> more! more!
<Hobbsee> hehe fun
<Hobbsee> ooh, snow!
* Hobbsee is jealous
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> this gives me an idea
* Kyral teleports behind Yagisan and stuffs ice down his pants
<Kyral> yah that was in Ottawa Canada
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee: hi
<Hobbsee> hi tuxmaniac
<Kyral> didja find the pic of me on my cell
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee: Where is StevenK !! Did he jump on you today too :)
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: he's here, i was talking to him earlier.  i dont remember if he jumped on me
* Yagisan marvels at how Kyral manage to appear in the wall behind him
<Kyral> Hobbsee: ?
<Yagisan> is there any fundamental difference between vsprintf and vsnprintf that would cause the first to work, yet the second to only print 7 chars ?
<Hobbsee> Kyral: yeah
<Hobbsee> i thikn so
<Hobbsee> :P
<Kyral> bad no? :P
<Hobbsee> hehe yeah
<Kyral> I think the caption I put is "Me, being an idiot" or somesuch :P
<Hobbsee> oh yes, that one...
* Hobbsee is surprised at the phones on the snow...
<Kyral> lol
<Hobbsee> s/on/in
<Kyral> its ice
<Kyral> Thats one massive canal that freezes over every winter
<Kyral> I am happy to say I only beefed it twice
<Kyral> <== Loves ice skating
* Yagisan hasn't even seen snow
<Kyral> ..ouch
<Kyral> I <3 Snow
<`6og> never seen snow o_0
<Kyral> Yah I beefed it when I ran into snow on the ice
<imbrandon> never seen snow ?!? jez
<Yagisan> too warm here
<imbrandon> heh, where is here?
<Kyral> Aussie I thought?
<Yagisan> Sydney
* Hobbsee has seen snow twice before :)
<Kyral> wait
<imbrandon> cool
<Kyral> lol
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
* Yagisan has seen big chunky hail though
<Kyral> Hobbsee: you should have come to UBZ :P
* Hobbsee wonders about a skiing holiday..
<`6og> Yagisan: lame excuse
<Hobbsee> Kyral: i have no passport
<Kyral> oh wait it wasn't snowing then....
<`6og> your a few hours drive from the snow feilds
<Kyral> Hobbsee: I have one!!
<Yagisan> `6og: sure, buy me a car
<Kyral> I'll come visit and bring snow lol
<imbrandon> i found out what that bug is kinda, well atleaste how to reporduce it now just to figure it out ( atleaste enough to report it on launchpad )
* StevenK hasn't seen snow at all.
<Hobbsee> Kyral: sure, but they wont let me pass on your picture :P
<`6og> `6og: sure. i'll drop it off
<Hobbsee> heh
<Laser_away> yikes, that's sad. I've never seen a year without seeing snow at least 4 months out of the year
<Kyral> StevenK: you poor depraved soul
<StevenK> Hail the size of golf balls, I have though.
<Kyral> Laser_away: Amen to that!
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Kyral> LJ where are you again?
<Laser_away> currently Reno, NV
<Laser_away> but I grew up in Montana
<Kyral> Casinos!!
<Kyral> I'm sorry
<Laser_away> yes, lots of them
<Laser_away> I never go though
<Kyral> Montana == Nowhere USA :P
<Laser_away> Kyral: yep, and I miss it a lot
<Laser_away> I grew up and go my BA in a town of 4,000
<Kyral> ouch
<Kyral> well, Potsdam is smaller....
<Kyral> Potsdam, NY :P
<Laser_away> 9,000 in a county the size of Rhode Island
<Kyral> Whoa, they got that many people in that tiny spot?
* `6og blinks. it's strange hearing comparisons between places you have no idea about
<Kyral> I remember driving through RI once
<Yagisan> `6og: so, when are you dropping that car off?
<Kyral> "Welcome to Rhode Island"
<Kyral> minute later
<Kyral> "Now Leaving Rhode Island"
<Laser_away> `6og: sorry, 9,000 people in ~600 square miles
* Yagisan went to a casino once
<Laser_away> but I'm guessing square miles isn't going to help much either ;-)
* Yagisan was promptly turned away
<Laser_away> I haven't been into the casinos here more then 5 times in the 4 years I've lived here
* Yagisan was looking for an atm
<Laser_away> the only reason I would ever go it for a buffet :-)
<`6og> Laser_away: fraid not ;)
* Hobbsee went inside a casino once...didnt bother doing anything, though
<Kyral> I went in
<Kyral> played craps
<Kyral> and won 160
<Kyral> dollars
<Hobbsee> nice!
<Hobbsee> too much chance for casino stuff...
<Laser_away> yep, that is why it is so addictive
<Hobbsee> even card games
<Yagisan> Kyral: yeah, and how much did you lose
<Kyral> Yagisan: that was NET
<Laser_away> we have gambling addiction treatment programs here
<tuxmaniac> Yagisan: guess 320 $
<Hobbsee> and yes, i knwo that craps isnt a card game :P
<Kyral> Yagisan: as in how much I won minus loss
* Yagisan plans to play blackjack when he gets his hands on an autistic kid
<Laser_away> we bought our house from a lady who was $70,000 in debt because of gambeling
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Laser_away> I see people pushing shopping carts downt he streat because they gambled their cars away
<Laser_away> not pretty
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> 02:00
<Kyral> BEDTIME!
<Laser_away> yep, cya Kyral
<Hobbsee> night Kyral
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> 2am is time to start hacking :P
<Kyral> You like teh away?
<Kyral> Hobbsee: not when you need to be up at 08:00
<Kyral> and coherent
<`6og> hehe. night Kyral
<Hobbsee> sure it is.  see this mroning.
<`6og> Hobbsee: youth of today :P
<Hobbsee> :P
<Kyral> I need 6 hours of sleep or else my already hard to keep up with speech pattern is even harder to understand :P
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee wanna help me reporduce this bug and possibly track it down ( wanna make sure its just not me but i dont think so becouse i have tried it on 2 diffrent machines here at home )
<Laser_away> man, I used to be able to do all nighters in college, but since I got married I just can't do it anymore. To much to do during the day
<Kyral> anyway
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: what bug?
<Kyral> cat Kyral >> /dev/bed
<Kyral> for REAL!
<`6og> hehe
<`6og> lol Laser_away
<imbrandon> heh i dunno what to call it but if you install ( dont even have to use it ) smbfs , hald take a LONG time to start when booting ( like 2 or 3 minutes )
<imbrandon> uninstall smbfs everything returns to normal
<Hobbsee> ack...i dont want to kill my system by trying that :P
<`6og> imbrandon: sure it's hald lagging?
<imbrandon> i've got it to do it here at the house 3 times, wannna see if soneone else gets the same resule
<imbrandon> `6og: well thats the message on the startup, is "hald starting up ......." eventualy it will but takes forever
<imbrandon> result*
<`6og> strange.
<imbrandon> btw its on uptodate dapper ( breezy seems unaffected )
<imbrandon> if that wasent obvious
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i thought it was a problem with the hal package at first so i did a clean install and updated everyting BUT hal and booted same thing, so i went ahead and updated hal and then removed smbfs ( thats the only thing that was installed other than default kubuntu )
<imbrandon> and booted smooth
<`6og> correct me if i'm wrong - hal=hardware abstraction layer?
<imbrandon> so i did the same thing ( installed smbfs , rebooted , uninstalled smbfs ) to make sure that was it, i'm not even sure what logs to look at to give a core dev an idea of whats going on
<imbrandon> `6og: yes
<`6og> imbrandon: ask in -devel, where to look for stuff
<imbrandon> dont know what hal has to do with it but thats where it freezes on boot every time , when starting hal
<`6og> niether do i, that's why i checked ;)
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> will do ( hopefully someones awake ;)
<`6og> ;)
* Yagisan wonders why the kids only get sick when the doctor is closed
<Yagisan> damm, still once place behind ajmitch
<tseng> ?
<Yagisan> tseng: http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/user_list.php?s=&t=45104
* Hobbsee curses ndiswrapper
<Hobbsee> stupid thing!
<crimsun> Laser_away: pong (unlikely)
<freeflying> crimsun: hi, would you mind have a look at the new zhcon, thx
<crimsun> freeflying: revu/debian/ubuntu (url)?
<freeflying> crimsun: I just failed build, due to the changes in Makefile, after patched, still can not work
<freeflying> crimsun: new version can support utf8
<crimsun> freeflying: ok, got a url?
<freeflying> crimsun: http://sourceforge.net/projects/zhcon
<crimsun> ah ok, upstream
<freeflying> crimsun: how about include it in dapper?
<crimsun> freeflying: will look in a few minutes. To include it, you'd need to file an Upstream Version Freeze exception request
<freeflying> crimsun: after all , rc is coming ,so I don't know weather the UVFe will be approved  :)
<crimsun> freeflying: if it fixes a critical bug, I'd still file a UVFe req
<freeflying> crimsun: the critical is that old version can not support utf8, heh
<freeflying> so, cjk guy can not input in native under console
<crimsun> freeflying: but with zhcon, (s)he can?
<crimsun> new zhcon, that is
<freeflying> crimsun: sure
<crimsun> freeflying: ok, that's worth filing a UVFe req
<freeflying> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu.org.cn/216 --< change the dir for install zhcon.conf
<phanatic> morning
<Toadstool> morning
<phanatic> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi phanatic
<siretart> hey folks
<Toadstool> hi siretart
* Yagisan waves hello to Toadstool phanatic and siretart
<Toadstool> hey Yagisan
<phanatic> hello Yagisan
* Yagisan is wondering why vsnprintf only prints 7 chars, even though it says it printed 40.
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> updating pbuilder, preparing clamav merge...
<sivang> hi all
<sivang> hey phanatic :)
<phanatic> hello sivang :)
<\sh> hey sivang :) did I see it right, that you started uploading? ;)
<phanatic> sivang: i cannot go :(
<sivang> phanatic: why no?
<phanatic> sivang: no sponsorship (which i can understand)
<sivang> phanatic: ah I see, sponsership emails already went out?
<phanatic> sivang: yeah, on friday
<\sh> sivang: are you attending paris?
<sivang> \sh: not sure yet, I did not receive any emails from Jane on friday, so I'll either stay at home, or go for a trip arounde EU and drop by for a couple of days or so.
<sivang> ;-)
<\sh> sivang: hehe :) the latter is better :)
<sivang> \sh: are you coming ?
<\sh> sivang: I'll try visit the people in paris for one or two nights if it's possible...
<Yagisan> w00t - I found the bug :)
<\sh> sivang: I never applied for sponsorship and actually we have product launch in june
<sivang> \sh: I see, good luck then :-)
<\sh> sivang: but one weekend should do..or at least the beginning of the conf (ubuntu love day ;))
<sivang> \sh: I understood there is not going to be any love day on this no? just hard spec writing :)
<sivang> who else is going there?
<\sh> sivang: every day is ubuntu love day ;)
<sivang> this is true :-D
<\sh> siretart: ping
<siretart> \sh: pong
<\sh> siretart: regarding https://launchpad.net/bugs/42568 I found only the fix for /var/run in the actual clamav package in ubuntu....
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42568 in clamav "Security issue fixed in 0.88.2" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<\sh> siretart: and some rules adjustments :)
<siretart> \sh: yes?
<sivang> siretart: are you going to paris?
<siretart> sivang: I don't know. I'm not sponsored, and I have to look how expensive it would be
<sivang> siretart: me as well :)
<\sh> hehe...my first sponsored uploads since a couple of months ....
<Tonio_> hey
<Yagisan> G'day Tonio_
<Yagisan> persia: thanks for confirming Bug #44626
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44626 in openoffice.org "Can't Input Japanese Text" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44626
<persia> Yagisan: No worries.  That's the type of bug likely to annoy me at some point when I depend on the correct behaviour :)
<persia> Yagisan: Are you familiar with the IM mechanism used in Open Office?  I don't know where to even begin investigating that.
<Yagisan> persia: I discovered it when I when to type a fax to my mother-in-law
<Yagisan> persia: not at all :(
<Yagisan> s/when/went
<persia> Yagisan: That's too bad.  Did you end up writing it in gedit?
<Yagisan> persia: yep. then pasting it in OO.o for formatting
<persia> Yagisan: Copy & paste works?  It's just the imput framework then?
<Yagisan> persia: yeah, Control+C and Shift+Insert work
<Yagisan> persia: input is stuffed. (I'm on dapper)
<Yagisan> persia: you also amd64 ?
<Yagisan> persia: Copy & Paste was stuffed in breezy. Doubt that will ever be fixed
<persia> Yagisan: I just checked, and opening a UTF-8 file seems to work as well.  I'll read some changelogs, and see what I can find.  I'm also dapper AMD64, but I doubt it's architecture specific, especially as OOo is 32-bit.
<Yagisan> persia: it's preciously because OO.o is 32bit that I think it is arch specific. I doub;t i386 has this issue, as they didn't get the copy & paste one for breezy
<persia> Yagisan: Hmmm...  Have to think about that :)
<Yagisan> persia: so, how was  ?
<persia> Yagisan: My mother-in-law came to visit.  Dinner, etc.  For you?
<persia> Yagisan: I found it.  OOo only supports IIIMP.  Now to find a bridge...
<Yagisan> persia: talked to my mother-in-law on the phone. my daughter gave my wife the gift of sick child on a weekend.
<persia> Yagisan: Blergh.  If you really want to use OOo, install iiimgcf.  You'll need to switch to iiimf-htt-xbe for Xinput.  There don't appear to be any nice applets, etc.  I don't want to change my config that much: do you want to investigate more, or shall I just update the bug with my findings to date?
<Yagisan> persia: update the bug for now. I'll look at how much hassle using iiimgcf is later
<sivang> ah, staying at the hotel where canonical people stay is rather expansive ...:)
<ajmitch> sivang: yes, and it's probably not cheap to stay somewhere else close
<sivang> ajmitch: so it seems, have you also checked? :)
<sivang> ajmitch: or are you sponsered for the summit?
<ajmitch> sivang: no, and no
* ajmitch won't be going
<Hobbsee> poor ajmitch - paris would be fun
<sivang> ajmitch: I see, I guess we both get to spec stuff and help from remote this time :)
<sivang> Hobbsee: you going ?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: sitting in a hotel at the airport for a week?
<Hobbsee> sivang: nope
* Hobbsee didnt even think she'd be entitled to go
<ajmitch> probably more entitled than I am
<slomo_> crimsun: ping?
<sivang> slomo_: yo :)
<slomo_> hi sivang :)
<Hobbsee> sivang: i've got assignments thru that block of time - and we must be in the uni for them...
<tseng> they are pretty selective about who gets a free ride, i only got to udu because ogra bugged mark nonstop
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: why not ? I rocked up to UDU and well, to be honest the only stuff from me has gone to hoary-security
<sivang> slomo_: will you be in paris?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: yes, but i have no passport, and it's all the way in paris.
<slomo_> sivang: at least that's plannd :)
<sivang> slomo_: are you being sponsered?
<sivang> slomo_: on a side note, you did not upload ekiga and gwget :) has there been any issue with my debdiffs ?
<\sh> Seveas: is it possible to remove this stupid cloak completly ? i even want to see my hostname then unaffiliated/sh/x-000000002
<slomo_> sivang: oh did forget them, sorry :( i'll do it in some minutes
<slomo_> sivang: and not sure about sponsoring yet
<Seveas> \sh, poke lilo - I didn't tell him to put an unaffiliated cloak on you
<\sh> Seveas: k
<sivang> slomo_: ah, it's said on the wiki page that sponsership has already been announced.
<sivang> err, emailed to relevant people. that is
<sivang> slomo_: I should get approved for main then I won't even have to bug you about those as well :)
<slomo_> sivang: hehe :) will happen faster than you think :P and gwget is in universe so you can upload it yourself anyway
<sivang> slomo_: ah, I was sure it was in main according to it's control file, overrides..:-)
* sivang off to a meeting
<slomo_> sivang: ekiga will be uploaded soon :)
<phanatic> hi people
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey Hobbsee
<persia> zakame: My apologies, but porting kdrill to make is not something I will complete any time soon.  When I have time again, I'll check the bug status, and if it remains as is, I'll take another look.
<\sh> ok...need to do some real life stuff
<phanatic> siretart: ping
<siretart> phanatic: pong
<phanatic> siretart: regarding the uvfe (bug 44549). is that debdiff enough for you (or somebody else) to upload?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44549 in gnome-rdp "UVF Exception Request" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44549
<sivang> slomo_: thank you :)
<slomo_> sivang: np :)
<siretart> phanatic: I haven't looked at it too closely. if it is 'minimal', then I'd say yes
<slomo_> sivang: for gwget... use -1ubuntu1 and distribution dapper :P i've uploaded it as such for you already
<sivang> slomo_: oh, thanks, I did not change anything in the getted source from the archive
<phanatic> siretart: it's not so minimal, since the source has some changes + several icons were added. so it would be better to upload to revu maybe?
<sivang> slomo_: so I guess that's why it appeared to be supposed to in main and had this in the control file
<siretart> phanatic: perhpas
<phanatic> siretart: ok, the i'll do that
<phanatic> *then
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi siretart, phanatic
<kgoetz> hi bddebian
<phanatic> hey bddebian
<siretart> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya kgoetz
<kgoetz> :)
<sivang> bddebian: what do we want to break today? :-)
<bddebian> sivang: :-)  I'm probably not allowed, it's Mothers Day ya know :-)
<sivang> heheh
<Kyral> Morning
<kgoetz> hi Kyral
<Hobbsee> hi again Kyral
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Go to bed Hobbsee  :P
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> no!
<kgoetz> lol
<Kyral> Yes!
* Hobbsee stomps her foot
<Hobbsee> no!
<Kyral> Don't make me use Hammerspace!
<kgoetz> hehe
* kgoetz grabs somepopcorn
* Kyral pulls a rubber mallet and conks Hobbsee over the head with it to knock her out
<phanatic> siretart: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2333
* Hobbsee falls to the floor
<Hobbsee> nasty.
<Kyral> hehe, i didn't hit you that hard
<sivang> Hobbsee: where are youfrom btw?
<kgoetz> looked bad from ehre
<Hobbsee> sivang: sydney
<kgoetz> *here
<sivang> Hobbsee: ah, cool
<Hobbsee> i mean, antarctica :P
<Kyral> kgoetz: anime rule...uuh forgot lol
<kgoetz> lol
<sivang> Hobbsee: yeah, I've heared :p
<Kyral> damnit lol
<kgoetz> Kyral: <grin>
<kgoetz> sivang: i can vouch for it ;)
<Kyral> If Syndey is Antartica
<Kyral> then what is Potsdam NY?
<kgoetz> Kyral: far away?
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Kyral> Seeing as I have had to walk to class in -30 F weather (before wind chill)
<Mithrandir> -15C is just nice, though.
<kgoetz> ( Hobbsee, what's -15F?)
<kgoetz> *-30
<Hobbsee> er, i dont remmeber....
<Hobbsee> i have a program that does that for me :P
<Mithrandir> hmm, I was wrong, -30F is ~-35C
<kgoetz> lol
<Mithrandir> You have: tempF(-30)
<Mithrandir> You want: tempC -34.444444
<Mithrandir> that's a tad cold.  Not unbearable, but cold.
<kgoetz> hm. "bracing"
<kgoetz> cold enough for me to have pants on instead of shorts
<Mithrandir> well, sure.  I pass that threshold at about 0C.
<kbrooks> hey
<kbrooks> i have a question
<kgoetz> Mithrandir: hehe
* Hobbsee wears jeans almost all the time anyway :P
<kbrooks> WHERE are .desktop files installed to, and how do i refresh the menu?
<kbrooks> the applications menu
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you should rather wear skirts.  Much prettier. :-)
<Hobbsee> heh
<kbrooks> WHERE are .desktop files installed to, and how do i refresh the applications menu?
<kgoetz> oooh Mithrandir ;)
<Hobbsee> totally impractical though...
* kbrooks waits
<kgoetz> kbrooks: wait your turn and don't spam
<kbrooks> waiting... waiting...
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I wouldn't know.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<kbrooks> kgoetz: oh? this channel is sequential?
<kbrooks> kgoetz: triaged?
<kbrooks> kgoetz: or what?
<kgoetz> kbrooks: we are talking about hobbsee's clothing, when that's not interesting it's your turn ;)
<kgoetz> in /usr/share/somewhere i think in answer to your question, but i would have to loko it up
<kbrooks> kgoetz: sequential then, i assume
<Hobbsee> heh
<Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > dpkg -L gedit-common| grep desktop$
<Mithrandir> /usr/share/applications/gedit.desktop
* Hobbsee doesnt see why anyone would want to talk about her clothing
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: we're not just talking about your, but in general, I think.
<kbrooks> Mithrandir: so how do i refresh the meny?
<Hobbsee> oh, fair enough.  keep talking :P
<kbrooks> menu*
<Mithrandir> kbrooks: pkill gnome-panel ?
* Hobbsee is bored.  where's dholbach when you want him?
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> no...wait...who do i want...it might be bddebian that i want...
* bddebian runs away
<Hobbsee> bddebian: who did the original list of dh_iconcache fixes?
<kgoetz> lol
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Probably dholbach.  It certainly wasn't me :)
* Hobbsee grabs the ropes, and ties bddebian to the chat
<Hobbsee> bddebian: right.
<kbrooks> Mithrandir: doing this in a package
<kbrooks> Mithrandir: pkill is a Bad Idea (tm)
<Mithrandir> kbrooks: I think the panel picks it up automatically then?
<kgoetz> you could also try loggin out and in again, and i think therse a menu-update tyupe program
<kgoetz> Mithrandir: that's what i thought
<kbrooks> Mithrandir: hm, ok, ill try
<kgoetz> anyone good with perl around?
<bddebian> Is anyone good with perl? ;-P
<kgoetz> lol. my bad :/
<kbrooks> kgoetz: how about asking in #perl ?
<kgoetz> kbrooks: this is an ubuntu bug related question, not a random perl enquiry
<kbrooks> kgoetz: do tell.
<kgoetz> bug 44467 (vrms). i cant follow the code to work out wtf it's doing
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44467 in vrms "False positive on ttf-gentium" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44467
<kgoetz> someohow it works out if a package is free or non free, but it doesnt have a list of non free packages. i think it might be the package in question is still marked non-free
<kgoetz> elkbuntu: stop stalking me :(
<elkbuntu> nevah!!!!!!!!!!!!
<kgoetz> sif!
<elkbuntu> only here so i can spy/listen/learn :)
<kgoetz> lol. i'm here to pounce on people who want to learn
* bddebian is here to just steal everyones karma ;-)
<kgoetz> hehe.
<zakame> hi all! :D
<bddebian> Any PPC users alive?
<freeflying-ibook> bddebian: hi
<bddebian> Heya freeflying-ibook
<bddebian> freeflying-ibook: Would you mind installing the new xcircuit and seeing if it crashes on startup?
<freeflying-ibook> bddebian: what can I do for you?
<freeflying-ibook> bddebian: 3.4.21-0ubuntu1?
<bddebian> Yep
<freeflying-ibook> bddebian: no crash
* bddebian wonders if he can fit his Ubuntu laptop in with his work laptop for this stupid business trip :-(
<bddebian> freeflying-ibook: Excellent, thanks!
<freeflying-ibook> bddebian: np
<kgoetz> night
<bddebian> GNight kgoetz
<kgoetz> later bddebian. .have fun :)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Thanks
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Sorry am dead tight!! Am on a business trip actually.. :((
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Wish you a happy journey too :D
<bddebian> thx
<Spec> changelog's are supposed to be manually edited, yes?
<sivang> Spec_: there a tool, dch that helps you edit it but yestm it's generally manually edited
<ivoks> dch rulz :)
<Spec_> yeap :)
<sivang> Spec: dch will create the neccessary entries for you just to fill up
<Spec> yeap
<Spec> dch -i is what i used
<zul> you
<zul> doh..hey
<crimsun> slomo_: pong
<slomo_> crimsun: is there a way to query one alsa soundcard for it's capabilities? i want to know what sampling rates it supports :)
<crimsun> slomo_: yes
<slomo_> crimsun: how?
<crimsun> slomo_: take a look at how jackd does it in drivers/alsa/alsa_driver.c
<slomo_> crimsun: hm, a simple shell command would be better ;)
<crimsun> erg, well, that would require you open playback and/or capture and inspect its hw_params
<crimsun> for instance, ``aplay /dev/zero'', then inspect /proc/asound/card0/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params
<Laser_away> crimsun: did you see the new maxima bug info?
<crimsun> LaserJock: not yet, I'll look
<LaserJock> crimsun: basically it sounds like compiling maxima with a different lisp compiler (cmcul is reported to work) fixes the connection problems
<crimsun> LaserJock: ah, excellent. So perhaps gcl can be avoided?
<crimsun> (will look in a bit)
<crimsun> heh, the usplash 0.2-2 changelog is pretty scathing
<tseng> thats keybuk for you
* LaserJock runs to go see the scandal
<LaserJock> wow, that is something
<whiprush> I chuckled also
<zul> who is frank?
<LaserJock> zul: Frank Schoep on ubuntu-devel I imagine
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-20
<zul> ah..
<ajmitch> morning
<tritium> morning, ajmitch
<zul> evening ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
* ajmitch wonders what to work on today
<zul> bugs...squash them to little itty bits
<ajmitch> mmm
* ajmitch looks for some boots 
<zul> later
<Hobbsee> hi everyone
<ajmitch> hello
<Laser_away> hi Hobbsee and ajmitch
<kgoetz> hi active people
<ajmitch> hello Laser_away :)
<Hobbsee> hi Laser_away
<Laser_away> Hobbsee: I see you had your hands on cdbs
<Hobbsee> Laser_away: that i did :)
<ajmitch> soon she'll be going for core-dev
* Hobbsee killed it
<Hobbsee> ack!  what an idea!
<Hobbsee> i dont think you'd want me killing the repos...
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: and surely i should be going for motu first?
<ajmitch> it would help
* Hobbsee still doesnt think anyone would want her killing the repos.
<ajmitch> we'd expect that you wouldn't
<Hobbsee> hmmm...
* Hobbsee doesnt see why she needs that power - plenty of lovely people who upload stuff for me now :)
<Laser_away> Hobbsee: the point will come though... you'll find you need MOTUness to get done what you need to get done
<Hobbsee> true...
<ajmitch> because it's just useful to be able to work on your own
<Hobbsee> at some point
<ajmitch> I could do everything by begging people to upload as well
<ajmitch> it quickly gets tiring
<Laser_away> true
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Laser_away> and it gets tiring for sponsors too
<Hobbsee> true
<ajmitch> we suggest people go for it as soon as they're ready
<ajmitch> but not too soon
* Hobbsee doesnt know enough to have that yet
<ajmitch> that's fine
<ajmitch> just keep working until you do
* Hobbsee nods
<dholbach> good morning motu world
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach
<Hobbsee> dholbach: pm?
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<Mithrandir> hello Daniel
<dholbach> Hobbsee: sure
<dholbach> hey Tollef!
* dholbach hugs Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> 'sup today?
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
* Hobbsee pokes Mithrandir with a big stick
<dholbach> Mithrandir: icons
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: mr 64bit :) have any howto's or pointers for porting code to amd64/ia64 ?
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: ouch.
* Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee back.
* Hobbsee squeals, and stomps on Mithrandir's toes.
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: "don't store pointers in ints"
<Hobbsee> just you wait till i meet you in person :P
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I think I'll bring some rope and handcuffs then. :-)
<Hobbsee> heh...so you have a deathwish hey, and a wish to hear hobbsee scream?  odd.
<Mithrandir> I guess I should get some foot irons too, to avoid you stomping my feet.
* Mithrandir prefers to walk around barefooted, y'see.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> because it would hurt oh so much, yes :P
<Mithrandir> and since you're a girl you'd probably have heels suitable for making holes in my feet and all
* Hobbsee doesnt wear heels.  at least not stick heals
* Hobbsee falls over if she does :P
<Mithrandir> ok, so my feet (or at least one of them) will just be of uniform thickness, then. :-P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Mithrandir> ah, so no need for foot irons, I can just get your shoe size and find some high-heeled shoes?
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: I didn't. unfortunately the codebase I've inherited has.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: well, porting to 64 bit is mostly that.  Also, don't assume sizeof(int) != sizeof(long).
<Toadstool> 'morning motus
<Hobbsee> hi Toadstool - congratulations on membership, btw
* Yagisan starts to cry. This will take forever
<Toadstool> hi Hobbsee, thanks :)
<Yagisan> approx 336 warnings about pointers and ints :(
<thesaltydog> if a .deb package build-depends on libgtk2-perl>=1:1.100, how can it be correctly synch'ed in ubuntu, stating that ubuntu's lib doesn't have the epoch 1:?
* StevenK belatedly jumps on Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee throws StevenK off a cliff in response.
<Hobbsee> ah, pity, you're not in #ubuntu-offtopic
<ajmitch> interesting stuff happening there?
<Hobbsee> sure, i'm using my pitchfork and flaming torch, along with the rest of my army.
<ajmitch> ah
<sivang> morning all
<StevenK> Aww, she went away.
* StevenK was reading about the all-around fun-loving guy, Sven Luther.
* ajmitch twitches
<ajmitch> I understand why debian has expulsion procedures now :)
<ajmitch> & I'm glad that we have the CC to fall back on here
<StevenK> However, Sven didn't even up getting kicked out.
<ajmitch> I know..
<StevenK> And oh yes, having the CC as a fallback is a good thing.
<ajmitch> and so we get endless threads, bugs filed for the tech committee, DPL getting dragged in, etc
<StevenK> Just wait for the GR.
<StevenK> Everyone is apparently "on Frans's side."
<ajmitch> he did *say* he won't go for the GR :)
<StevenK> I am of the opinion that Sven will say one thing and do another.
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> erm wth sven talk here? =P
<ajmitch> zakame: you're right, we should stop
<zakame> hehe
<zakame> with sven and jltallon around, we've plenty of examples _not_ to follow :/
<ajmitch> heh
<StevenK> I have half a mind to send a mail to Sven accusing him of practising dentistry without a license. Only a dentist can hide behind "this won't hit a bit" and then start ripping chunks of your mouth out.
<ajmitch> don't remind me of that
<ajmitch> I've got to see a dentist soon
<StevenK> Heh. Oops.
<ajmitch> :)
<zakame> lol
<ajmitch> laptops are rather useful - lets me get much closer to the heater
* ajmitch notices winter seems to have started 
<StevenK> My Dual Athlon was good during winter.
<ajmitch> yes, my dual-core system doesn't seem to run nearly hot enough
<StevenK> Close the door, wait 20 minutes, and the ambient temp in the room was up 5 degrees.
<ajmitch> not bad
<StevenK> My little amd64 runs very cool, so doesn't do the same thing.
<ajmitch> though being up 5C for me would mean it'd be about 15C at best :)
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> ok, 8.1C outside, apparantly
<StevenK> 16C here, according to the weather applet
<ajmitch> colder than I expected
<StevenK> Like other people have said, .au doesn't have winter, it just has the absence of summer.
<ajmitch> I didn't think sydney was meant to get below 20C? :)
<StevenK> Hah. During winter it will regularly drop to 9C before the sun is up.
<ajmitch> wow
<ajmitch> that's really cold ;)
<ajmitch> it'll frequently be < 0C here in winter
* StevenK kicks ajmitch.
<Mithrandir> 16C is nice and warm.
<StevenK> No, 26C is nice and warm.
<ogra> Mithrandir, pfft, thats not even what i call spring here
* Mithrandir notes it's around +8C here today.  T-shirt and shorts weather.
<StevenK> I'm wearing 3 layers of clothing and it's double that.
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: you start sweating when it's over 10?
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: no, not really.  Above 25-30, maybe.
* ajmitch wonders if he should bug kamion
<Whoopie> Hi, can I somewhere see that a sync with a debian package is requested and what the status is?
<tehwaXC> I am having some issues while trying to install libswingwt-java
<tehwaXC> it is saying that it depends on a package I have installed, but it says that said package is uninstallable
<tehwaXC> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/libs/libswingwt-java is trying to tell me something, but i am not sure what
<tehwaXC> the dependant package is libswt-gtk-3.1-java
<tehwaXC> After further research, the solution appears beyond the scope of an IRC chat.
<tehwaXC> many thanks
<Riddell> dholbach: can you select to use the hicolour icon theme in gnome?
<dholbach> Riddell: no, but it's standard fallback to everything
<Riddell> good, thanks
<dholbach> thanks
<ajmitch> hi dholbach, Riddell
<ajmitch> yay, zope2.8 & most of the products should be installable now
<zul> heylo
<ajmitch> hey zul
<zul> hey ajmitch
<freeflying> crimsun: hi
<crimsun> freeflying: hi
<freeflying> crimsun: how about the zhcon  :)
<crimsun> freeflying: I haven't looked yet, been busy, will try to this morning (ETA: 4 hours)
<freeflying> crimsun: thx
<Hobbsee> hi all
<zul> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi zul :)
<sivang> hi all
<tuxmaniac> Hello World
<Hobbsee> hi sivang and tuxmaniac
* tuxmaniac jumps on Hobbsee before StevenK does :)
<Hobbsee> heh.
<LaserJock> hi \sh
<\sh> moins
<crimsun> hullo folks
<zul> hey \sh
<\sh> hey zul
<LaserJock> hi crimsun and zul
<crimsun> 'lo
<zul> hilo
<LaserJock> hmm, it's been a while since we had a MOTU meeting
<zul> hmmm...is there one coming up?
<LaserJock> none planned as far as I can see
<zul> i guess everyone is busy with dapper
<LaserJock> maybe we should have one last one before the release
<zul> send a note to the ml
<goedson> dholbach: ping.
<dholbach> goedson: pong
<goedson> dholbach: I've recieved a request for updating a translation for gnomebaker in Dapper.
<goedson> May I mail it to you?
<goedson> I don't have an ubuntu system available to build a new package.
<dholbach> goedson: could you open a bug report for that?
<dholbach> I'm quite busy with stuff, but I'd set it on my list to make sure it gets done - does that work for you?
<goedson> dholbach: In launchpad?
<dholbach> yeah
<goedson> dholbach: Will do it.
<dholbach> http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnomebaker/+filebug
<dholbach> goedson: thanks a lot
<huats> does anybody can help me : I've made a bug fix
<dholbach> huats: what package did you fix?
<huats> libogg
<huats> I've send the bug to motu reviewers
<huats> but I have an answer that it is not the right place to do, because it is not in universe
<zul> libogg is in main isnt it?
<huats> that is the pb
<huats> so who should I contact for a review ?
<zul> i might be able to look at it tonight whats the bug number?
<huats> 38580
<huats> it is a small bug, (in documentation) but a bug anyway...
<zul> thanks ill have a look at it tonight
<huats> zul, thanks to you
<zul> dholbach: it gives me the chance to see if uploading to main works for me ;)
<zul> huats: no problem..
<dholbach> zul: enjoy :)
<huats> but just to know : which team can I join to ask for a review if the package is in main ?
<goedson> dholbach: Done. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnomebaker/+bug/44894/+index
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44894 in gnomebaker "Slovak translation seriously buggy" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<LaserJock> huats: I don't really think there is one, you just have to bug somebody that is a Main dev (ubuntu-core-dev on LP)
<dholbach> goedson: excellent - I'll add it to my list and assign to motureviewers, so it will get done
<huats> LaserJock, Hi
<huats> LaserJock, thanks
<LaserJock> np
<zul> hauts: the documentation works for me but there is no ogg directory in the doc directory, is this for breezy or dapper?
<LaserJock> zul: should be dapper
<LaserJock> zul: I had a look at it the other day with huats
<zul> ah i see now..
<huats> zul, yep dapper
<huats> zul, LaserJock almost did everything...
<zul> ok ill fix it tonight
<huats> zul,  cool
<phanatic> hi people
<Spec> hi person
<phanatic> Spec: :)
<phanatic> could somebody have a look at this package please (uvf exception granted)? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2333
<crimsun> phanatic: looks fine
<phanatic> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> phanatic: I uploaded, but the archive is not accepting my uploads again (qprocd bug)
<crimsun> this is quickly becoming irksome.
<LaserJock> crimsun: want me to do it?
<phanatic> crimsun: thank you.
<crimsun> LaserJock: sure
<LaserJock> umm, I see it on dapper-changes
<crimsun> oh, goodie
<crimsun> well, I suppose it's as good a time as any to dive into emacs now that I've a need for diff-mode
<LaserJock> emacs? as opposed to vim?
<crimsun> yes, I've used vi/m for my entire UNIX exposure
<LaserJock> and the vim diff stuff isn't sufficent?
<crimsun> does it autoadjust?
<LaserJock> heck if I know, I haven't used emacs or vim for diff
<sivang> LaserJock: are you still working on the ubuntu packaging manual ?
<sivang> LaserJock (the one that gets installed in yelp currently)
<LaserJock> sivang: it is in string freeze but edgy is open
<sivang> LaserJock: amazing stuff :)
<crimsun> ah, vimdiff
<sivang> LaserJock: I like the approach very much, especially the "from scratch" section
<sivang> LaserJock: I wonder if we could extend it a bit more, plans for edgy I guess :)
<LaserJock> oh, well thanks. I hope more people will pick it up for edgy
<LaserJock> sivang: oh yes, this was my first time writing docs, etc. and I was trying to make MOTU
<LaserJock> Edgy will rock ;-)
<LaserJock> patch systems especially need work
<sivang> LaserJock: none the less, this is amazing work you'e started there
<LaserJock> well, I tried to put together all the scattered material out there and use real examples
<LaserJock> and write it more for people wanting to contribute
<LaserJock> we'll see if it works
<LaserJock> I think shipping a packaging guide in the distro help is really cool
<LaserJock> there is also a print version that people can get
<crimsun> gah, I'm credited :/
<LaserJock> in the Packaging Guide? of course
<LaserJock> sivang: if there is something you want to see in Edgy add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide
<pygi> Hi
<pygi> can somebody please tell me who do I bug to make sure Monodevelop 0.11 is in dapper? :)
<LaserJock> pygi: you need a UVF exception bug if it is a new release
<LaserJock> pygi: but we are very deep into the freeze so it would need to be really important bug fixes
<pygi> yea, I know, but I remember I must have someone to update if for me :P
* pygi looks for changelog
<LaserJock> the motu-uvf LP team is in charge of approving exceptions
<pygi> LaserJock, http://www.monodevelop.com/Release_notes_for_MonoDevelop_0.11
<pygi> LaserJock, any chance that will get in?
<LaserJock> pygi: not sure, at this point we might be more inclined to patch the current version to fix the bugs, but I don't make that decision
<pygi> LaserJock, ah, ok :)
<LaserJock> pygi: is there an update source version available?
<pygi> LaserJock, not sure :-/
* pygi looks
* pygi must admit he is not so sure where to look on that
<LaserJock> revu.tauware.de perhaps
<LaserJock> because there isn't much of a point to have a UVF exception for a package that doesn't exist ;-)
* pygi agrees
<pygi> argh :(
<pygi> there is no that package :(
<crimsun> which package, and where?
<crimsun> monodevelop | 0.10-0pre1ubuntu6 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources
<pygi> crimsun, monodevelop 0.11 :)
<crimsun> not on revu, or not upstream? (sorry, just switched buffers)
<LaserJock> crimsun: I told him to try to find a monodevelop 0.11 source package if he wants a UVFe
<pygi> ah, just source package? :)
<pygi> http://go-mono.com/sources/monodevelop/monodevelop-0.11.tar.gz
<pygi> that one? :P
<crimsun> that's a start.
<crimsun> you might want to check in #debian-mono to see if anyone has already done work on 0.11.
<LaserJock> pygi: source as in ubuntu source package
* pygi checks
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, #debian-mono is a good idea
<pygi> if not, I can always package it :P
<pygi> LaserJock, crimsun, ok , thanks,I found the way out of this situation :)
<Whoopie> Hi, is something wrong with the sync process or is the archive team "only" really busy?
<crimsun> Whoopie: the latter.
<LaserJock> Whoopie: probably really busy + debconf6
<crimsun> we're talking /extremely/ busy
<Whoopie> crimsun: ok, what's debconf6 ?
<crimsun> Whoopie: the Debian developers' conference
<Whoopie> ah!
<Whoopie> crimsun: I saw your debdiff for the EmulateWheelTimeout problem. Thanks for it. But shouldn't the patch be in the debian/patches directory and not applied directly?
<crimsun> Whoopie: xserver-xorg-input-mouse does not build-depend on a patch system, and there is no existing debian/patches/, so no.
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-21
<Whoopie> sorry, only saw the debian directory, and believed it's always the same. thanks!
<Whoopie> can you upload it?
<crimsun> Whoopie: no, I don't have main upload privileges, else I would have uploaded it already.
<Whoopie> Hi zul!
<Whoopie> Your mail-notification package failed build. :(
<dholbach> good night fellas
<crimsun> 'night daniel
<Whoopie> night
<dholbach> NIght other-Daniel :)
<ajmitch> morning all
<zul> morning ajmitch
<zul> yeehaw my first upload to main was accepted
<ajmitch> sweet
<pygi> zul, congrats :)
<zul> thanks
<ajmitch> pygi: why do you want a newer monodevelop at this late stage?
<pygi> ajmitch, hm, just to have it? It doesnt matter actually...
<ajmitch> oh dear
<pygi> ajmitch, :P
<ajmitch> we don't file UVF exceptions 'just to have it'
<pygi> yes, yes, this fixes several bugs :)
<ajmitch> 16 days out from release...
<zul> yeah dont want to break anything
<pygi> yes, as I said.. doesn't matter...
<pygi> *bla*
* ajmitch closes a few bugs
<ajmitch> ok, still got 3 or so unmet deps for zope*
<ajmitch> 1 more upload should fix them
<sivang> ajmitch: do you have any idea about the zope source distribution ?
<sivang> (and on a related note, we do not provide zope3 distro in the archive, right?)
<ajmitch> sivang: explain
<ajmitch> we have zope2.7, zope2.9, and zope3 in the archive
<ajmitch> sorry, 2.8, not 2.7
<ajmitch>      zope3 | 3.2.1-1ubuntu1 | http://apt-proxy dapper/main Packages
<sivang> ah, we have 3? produce from which upstream tarball ?
<sivang> ah okay :)
<ajmitch> hm, 10317 bugs open, 16 days to go
<ajmitch> think we can get it down? :)
<zul> just a tad
<zul> especially #1
<sivang> ajmitch: okay, cool, so I grabbed 3.2.1 source distribution, to install it in a --prefix (I don't want to use the package and install system wide)
<ajmitch> sivang: why not?
<sivang> ajmitch: but when trying to ./configure , it won't build with python2.4.3 , it wants max 2.4.2
<ajmitch> what's wrong with just setting up a zope3 instance?
<sivang> ajmitch: I'd like to kno how to work with it from source, and to know about the setup needed as the package does it :)
<sivang> (thinks zope-from-scratch ;-)
<ajmitch> doing zope from scratch is only about a 5 minute task, not much is learnt :)
* ajmitch regularly does it on non-debian/ubuntu machines
<ajmitch> I doubt we'll get zope 3.3 beta 1 in dapper :)
<sivang> ajmitch: so, how do you overcome this stop with the configure script?
<sivang> ajmitch: (if the system you are installing has a higher python version > 2.4.2)
* ajmitch is checking the package
<ajmitch> since debian/rules does appear to pass a --force flag to configure
<ajmitch> & it compiles just fine
<sivang> ajmitch: interesting, I tried that already to the source distro. I wll retry. thanks for checking :)
<sivang> (and sorry for bugging)
<ajmitch> yep, package built locally
<sivang> ajmitch: (in which case the configure just says the python versio it found and ends abruptly without any error messages)
<ajmitch> debian/rules has --with-python=/usr/bin/python2.4 --force
<sivang> ajmitch: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14096
<ajmitch> and?
<ajmitch> there's no error there
<sivang> ajmitch: yes, there is no error
<ajmitch> so what's the problem? :)
<sivang> ajmitch: hhm, stupid me - could it have finished in a mere second? :)
<ajmitch> yes
<sivang> oh god
<sivang> I am DUMB
<ajmitch> zope's configure is fairly short
<sivang> also, I've found:
<sivang> # Place the optimal target version number (as returned by sys.version)
<sivang> # below
<sivang> TARGET="2.4.2"
<sivang> ;-)
<sivang> inside the configure script
* sivang will remember Zope is KISS oriented.
<TheMuso> UVFs are filed in malone now are they not? Just saw something on the wiki about sending to the MOTU list, but I haven't seen any there for a while.
<crimsun> yes, on Malone
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks.
<TheMuso> c
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> Man, where the heck is everyone?
* ajmitch is busy plotting
<bddebian> plotting?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> political overthrows & the like
<bddebian> Ah, nice :-)
<DarkMageZ> ajmitch, :P you should be working to overthrow telecom!
<ajmitch> more like sack & burn
<DarkMageZ> if new zealand would just get rid of telecom, i'd probley move back
<ajmitch> well they've moved in the last few weeks
<ajmitch> local-loop unbundling is on the table
<DarkMageZ> oh?
<DarkMageZ> about time!
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> of course the document was leaked to telecom the day that cabinet signed off on it
<ajmitch> but it's the most we've seen from the government in a long time
<ajmitch> where are you now?
<DarkMageZ> australia
<ajmitch> figures
<DarkMageZ> sure, telstra is evil, but they have competition with the guts to fight telstra (telstra is australia's version of telecom)
* ajmitch knows about telstra :)
<DarkMageZ> telstra newzealand is hypocritical, if we consider telstra nz & telstra au as one
<DarkMageZ> anyways, if australia starts going like america is, i suppose i'll move back
<bddebian> Oh yeah and how is that?
<bddebian> Frickin' stupid hotel wireless
<Laser_away> bddebian: where is the unmet deps list?
<bddebian> Laser_away: Give me a sec
<bddebian> Laser_away: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=UNMETDEPS&search=Search
<Laser_away> bddebian: when did you get in trouble for subscribing ubuntu-archive to get rid of a package?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Kamion gave me a hard time for a couple but I am doing it now anyway :-)
<LaserJock> ewb* need to go
<LaserJock> they are apt-get.org imports that have been bugging me for some time
<LaserJock> heck, unmetdeps are in the bag. I thought there was way more to do
<LaserJock> a good FTBFS list would be nice though
<bddebian> Yeah but I'm not sure how to generate a list now that the build logs are on LP?
<bddebian> Anyway, I better get to bed.  Catch you later man
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
<Mithrandir> https://launchpad.net/+builds/yellow?build_state=failed&build_text= at least gives you a list of failed amd64 builds.
<LaserJock> Mithrandir: hmm, that is interesting
<ajmitch> infinity promised us a list of them, I'll ping him about it
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, that would be great, especially since I'm not the one doing it :-)
<Gloubiboulga> hi MOTU world
<ajmitch> hi
<Gloubiboulga> hello ajmitch :)
<Hobbsee> hi everyone
<crimsun> hullo Hobbsee
<freeflying> hi Hobbsee  crimsun
<Hobbsee> hi freeflying and crimsun
<crimsun> hi freeflying
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee is thrown off balance, and falls to the floor.
<Hobbsee> nasty StevenK!
* Hobbsee attacks StevenK with her pitchfork.
<Hobbsee> repeatedly.
<StevenK> I'm not nasty, just misunderstood.
<crimsun> repeatedly? ouch.
* StevenK deflects the pitchfork with his salad tongs.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> misunderstood hey?
<StevenK> Yeah, duh. :-P
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<Hobbsee> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey Hobbsee
<ajmitch> hello
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<Toadstool> hi ajmitch
<seth|lappy> Hobbsee, school is finally over for me :)
<Hobbsee> seth|lappy: yay!
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<sivang> morning all
<Toadstool> hi dholbach sivang
<Hobbsee> hi sivang
<sivang> hey Hobbsee , Toadstool
<dholbach> hey Toadstool
<Mithrandir> morning dudes and dudettes.
<Hobbsee> hi Mitt
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
* Hobbsee always gets the tabs and keys and enters in teh wrong order!
* sivang hugs the amazing Mithrandir 
<crimsun> -devel has turned into rosetta temporarily ;-)
<Toadstool> :)
<sivang> crimsun: heh
<sivang> that's what's nice about ubuntu channels , they switch hats all the time
<crimsun> :-)
<Mithrandir> almost like UDs too.
<sivang> Mithrandir: UDs ?
<Mithrandir> Ubuntu Developers
<crimsun> hmm, ~2 1/2 days. That's a /lot/ of coffee. :-)
<phanatic> hi people
<Sp4rKy> hi
<sivang> Mithrandir: ah, right :)
* Mithrandir discovers the "show all open bugs [in package] " link.
<zakame> hi all
<Sp4rKy> hi
<zakame> hi Sp4rKy what's up?
<Sp4rKy> nothing about me :)
<phanatic> hey zakame
<zakame> heya phanatic
<ajmitch> hm, only 32G free on /usr/local
<ajmitch> not bad
<Lathiat> omg, hitting eject unmounts my cd drives now
<Lathiat> woo
<zul> heylo
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi StevenK
* Hobbsee continues to cough
<StevenK> Awww. Whyfor?
<Hobbsee> dunno
<Hobbsee> mmm...a CC meeting at a sane time...wow
<StevenK> Heh.
<StevenK> You're not sick?
<Hobbsee> just been coughing all night - and acting as the tickle monster :P
<Hobbsee> i doubt it
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee, StevenK
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch :)
* StevenK waves to ajmitch.
<StevenK> Does anyone know how to input unicode into Gnome Terminal?
<StevenK> The help for it being slightly next to useless.
<tuxmaniac> StevenK: Just go to Terminal menu and set character encoding :)
<StevenK> Which is set to UTF-8
<StevenK> I suspect the problem is that I need to know what my Compose key is.
<tuxmaniac> StevenK: Add or Remove Encoding -> You find Unicode!
<StevenK> Okay, let me redefine the question.
<StevenK> How do I type accented characters into Gnome Terminal?
<tuxmaniac> Hi all.. Somehow my brains did not work while installing Dapper. IWhen it asked for whether the system clock is set to UTC I pressed Yes. Now everytime I login it is showing 5.5 hours ahead as my time zone is Asia/Calcutta!!! How do I rectify this problem ?? :((
<jamessan> StevenK: if you know the numeric value of the character, I think you can use "ctrl+shift+<number>" to enter it.
<ajmitch> night all
* StevenK wonders how to look it up/what the easier way is.
<tuxmaniac> StevenK: www.lookuptables.com/
<jamessan> StevenK: the easier way is to have a compose key ;) or maybe use gucharmap
<StevenK> I probably do have a Compose key. It's knowing which key it is.
<tuxmaniac> jamessan: ++
<jamessan> I don't have a compose key setup either, so I generally use Vim and then copy/paste it
<tona> how do i setup vnc to accept connections only on 127.0.0.1?
<Kyral> And the point of that would be?
<Kyral> Isn't the point of VNC to accept remote connections?
<Hobbsee> hi Kyral
<tona> Kyral: connect through a ssh tunnel, as vnc is highly insecure.
<Kyral> tona: just use FreeNX
<tona> Kyral: i use freenx too.
<Kyral> i know of VNC's insecurity
<tona> Kyral: using it through a ssh tunnel is absolutely sufficient, it's just that i want to use its config files for this limitation, rather than limit it from the tcp wrappers.
<Kyral> speaking of the Local Loopback
<Kyral> I got that ThinkGeek shirt that says "There's no place like 127.0.0.1" :D
<tona> :))
<tona> nice one
<Kyral> also the "Man Woman" one :P
<tona> what about: "127.0.0.1, sweet 127.0.0.1!" ?
<Kyral> They don't have that one
<zakame> hi all
<Kyral> Long time no see farruinn
<Kyral> damn Nethack
<LaserJock> crimsun: ping?
<crimsun> LaserJock: pong, but in a meeting
<dholbach> i'm going to file a bunch of mysqlclient bugs now
<Kyral> lol
<dholbach> a bunch of stuff needs rebuilding again libmysqlclient15off
<crimsun> yay, transitions!
<LaserJock> crimsun: did you happen to look at rebuilding maxima using that other clisp?
<dholbach> yoohooo! :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: if not should I just try it out?
* Kyral goes to watch anime :P
<crimsun> LaserJock: I haven't, sorry, please do try it.
* LaserJock grabs Kyral and drags him back in
<LaserJock> crimsun: ok, will do
<dholbach> ok, done
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | We are in feature freeze now. Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DhIconCacheChanges and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | We are in feature freeze now. Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DhIconCacheChanges and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient)
<tseng> dholbach: *hugs*
<dholbach> infinity said they'd be *really* straightforward as the mysql api virtually never changes
* tseng looks for his stuff in dh_icon
* dholbach hugs tseng
<tseng> it all starts with k :)
<dholbach> and UNMETDEPS went good
<dholbach> 91 -> 21
<dholbach> well done
<LaserJock> do we have a FTBFS list yet?
<dholbach> it's just that I have a new bunch of unmet deps on my box :-p
<dholbach> LaserJock: i don't think so :/
<dholbach> LaserJock: but until then, we can make sure the other stuff is sorted out
<dholbach> and if the stuff we upload builds, we can be sure it's not on the FTBFS list :-p
<LaserJock> ajmitch said he was poking lifeless I think
<ogra> LaserJock, LP doent suffice ?
<ogra> *doesnt
<dholbach> ogra: archive test rebuild
<LaserJock> ogra: how do we get a good list from that?
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+builds?build_state=failed&build_text=
<ogra> but indeed you need to filter that for universe vs main
<ogra> and if its about the archive rebuild as dholbach said, i'm not sure that works via LP yet
<LaserJock> ogra: are those all failed builds? what happens if we upload a fixed package, does it get removed from that list?
<ogra> LaserJock, it should i think
<LaserJock> we really could use some LP xmlrpc action going on,  I think
<jeld> hello all
<LaserJock> hi jeld
<jeld> LaserJock, hi
<bddebian> Heya gang
<tuxmaniac> heya bddebian Long time no see!! Are you on trip?
<bddebian> Yeah, still in Atlanta
<tuxmaniac> hmm.. ok. /me hitting the bed
<tuxmaniac> bye all!
<bddebian> Gnight tuxmaniac
<LaserJock> bddebian! hi
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock, what's new? :-)
<Spec> bddebian: wanna fix a bug?
<LaserJock> bddebian: oh, I need to get my butt in gear at school. My advisor kind of looked at me like "
<LaserJock> "what the heck have you been doing all day?"
<LaserJock> when I had my weekly meeting with him :-)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Tell him FU, I'm busy with Ubuntu
<bddebian> ;-)
<LaserJock> hmmm, no
<bddebian> Spec: Can I? :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: but I need to get all productive before I tell him I'm going to Paris ;-)
<Spec> bddebian: nope, nevermind, you're not allowed to.
<bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
<hub> ghawd, the mono packaging between Dapper and Etch differs widely now
<imbrandon> hub i noticed
<Spec> hey LaserJock, i have me a question
<Spec> If I apt-get source maxima, how do I rebuild a deb with cmucl?
* hub is trying a crossbreed of mono to get beagle running on $JOB distro
<LaserJock> Spec: you would at least need to change the Build-Depends in debian/control
<imbrandon> hub i've just been building mono / monodev from source heh, the dapper pkgs change too much
<Spec> How would I tell maxima to compile with cmucl though?
<imbrandon> debuild
<imbrandon> after chaing debain/rules and debaiol/control
<imbrandon> etc
<Spec> i'd rather use pbuild instead of debuild, yes?
<Spec> :p
<imbrandon> i dunno i use debuild myself ;) but thats just me, i'm be NO means an expert
<LaserJock> Spec: debian/rules I'm guessing
<LaserJock> debuild builds the source package and pbuilder builds the binary
<imbrandon> debuild does binarys too without the -S -sa correct ?
<Spec> oh, i use dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S -rfakeroot, as told by other peoples :p (to build the source)
<hub> imbrandon: the thing is that I'm debianpackaging it
<bddebian> debuild will to the same
<Spec> what advantage does debuild have over dpkg-buildpackage? ^.^
<LaserJock> Spec:  debuild = dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot more or less
<Spec> hehe
<LaserJock> so yes you can use debuild to build the binary package but pbuilder is better because you check build dependecies and you don't have to install all the build dependencies on your machine
<imbrandon> ahh
<Spec> gotta wait for pbuilder to build it's p :-/
<FunnyLookinHat> Why has the xlibs package been removed from dapper?  it was in breezy....
<FunnyLookinHat> (required for cedega packaged .deb to install)
<ogra> FunnyLookinHat, it was onsolete in breezy already and only there for transitional porpose ... its droppen in debian as well
<ogra> *purpose ... dropped
<siretart> FunnyLookinHat: get a fixed cedega package for xorg7
<FunnyLookinHat> I grabbed a .deb that was hacked together from an http site....  so it'll work.  Any idea if a fix will come into play (or an updated xlibs package?)
<ogra> xedega needs to be updated for xorg7, thats nothing you can solve on the xorg side
<ogra> *cedega
<FunnyLookinHat> ogra, oooh ok.  I'll drop cedega dev's a complain then
<FunnyLookinHat> thanks guys!
<ogra> there wonnt be a xlibs package, xlibs are dead since quite some time
<nawty> Hi guys, anyone feel like helping me through building some debs?
<Bluekuja> nawty: start reading debian new mainteiner guide
<crimsun> nawty: are you following the Packaging Guide?
<nawty> Bluekuja, crimsun: URLS?
<Bluekuja> nawty: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide
<crimsun> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<Spec> nawty: man dpkg-buildpackage; man pbuilder; man dh_make; man cdbc
<Spec> after you read all the above, of course.
<Bluekuja> exactly Spec :)
<Bluekuja> its all written there
<nawty> ok, starting off with the URL's, i'll go back for the man pages, if my brain survives.
<Bluekuja> then start make some practice
<crimsun> cdbs, rather?
<Spec> err
<Spec> cdbs rather :)
<Spec> c, s, there's no difference in my head.
<crimsun> if only that excuse were valid for code ;-)
<nawty> ok, so if somthing's a debian upstream package, and i create one, can i submit it directly into ubuntu?
<nawty> or at least, if i create an update.
<LaserJock> nawty: you are creating a new Debian package that hasn't been in Debian or Ubuntu before?
<nawty> LaserJock: no, it's currently in ubuntu/debian.
<nawty> LaserJock: dspam.
<LaserJock> nawty: and you want to update it?
<nawty> LaserJock: that's the idea.
<LaserJock> if you update it in Debian then it will be synced over into Ubuntu semi-automatically
<nawty> i'm not a debian user, and i'd prefer not to learn it as well as the ubuntu package methods.
<LaserJock> nawty: oh, well they are pretty much the same, you could package it for ubuntu and then send a patch to the Debian maintainer. that is pretty easy
<nawty> LaserJock: i'd rather do that.
<LaserJock> you could send the patch to the Debian maintainer directly and then wait for it to be brought in to Ubuntu
<nawty> LaserJock: in theory, he jus tneeds to update dspam to the latest version.
<nawty> just even.
<nawty> although, learning to package would be nice, which would you suggest?
<LaserJock> nawty: package it up and then figure out where you want to go from there ;-)
<nawty> LaserJock: ok, i'll do that then
<zul> heylo
<LaserJock> hi zul
<zul> hey LaserJock
<dholbach> good night
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-14
<ScottK> Good night geser
<ScottK> Adri2000: Got a minute to look at a bugfix ready for upload?
<pochu> night geser 
<ScottK> Bug #113803 is ready for uus review I believe.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113803 in python-scientific "Python-netcdf crashes in Feisty" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113803
<bhale> ok kids, what is the latest proceedure for sync requests?
<pochu> bhale: is the package in universe?
<bhale> pochu: no.
<pochu> main?
<bhale> yes.
<pochu> bhale: then I think you have to file a bug against the package, and after that subscribe ubuntu-archive
<bhale> oh, thats familiar
<pochu> bhale: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<pochu> bhale: sorry, subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors, and wait for a confirmation
<pochu> then subscribe (if they haven't done it) ubuntu-archive
<bhale> pochu: er, i am a "main sponsor"
<pochu> bhale: lol, are you?
<bhale> pochu: yes.
<pochu> bhale: then either confirm it yourself, or wait for any other main sponsor to confirm it :)
<pochu> bhale: hehe, didn't know :-)
<bhale> pochu: im not that active any more
<bhale> i did most of the mono work for warty->breezy and dropped off a bit in dapper
<pochu> it's never late to come back! :)
<bhale> slomo does it better :)
<beuno> pochu: can you spare 1 or 2 minutes?
<pochu> beuno: sure!
<beuno> pochu: UWN is about to go out, and I'm looking for a team to highlight and promote, the MOTU team sounds like a good candidate  :D
<pochu> beuno: sure! but I'm not a MOTU ;)
<pochu> beuno: I'm on my way, though :-)
<beuno> pochu: well, I'm just looking for some guidance to write a paragraph or two
<pochu> but probably I can help you if you have any question
<pochu> beuno: sure
<pochu> beuno: the MOTU team takes care of the Universe and Multiverse repositories in Ubuntu
<pochu> which have thousands of packages
<beuno> pochu: I'd like to define a bit "take care", can you be a bit more specific?
<pochu> they fix bugs, upload new upstream version, request syncs from debian, do merges with debian, package new software...
<beuno> (I have a general idea about packaging and syncing from Debian)
<pochu> also the MOTU hopefulls and contributors do that stuff, but we don't have rights to upload the the repo, so we ask for a MOTU for sponsorship
<bhale> there are also library transitions
<bhale> just not in recent memory?
<pochu> bhale: as the mono from warty to breezy? ;)
<bhale> pochu: 'back in my day...'
<pochu> beuno: hope that's useful :)
<pochu> if you have any particular question...
<beuno> pochu: great, yeah, thanks, I'll start writing it up
<pochu> beuno: I'm off to bed, I wish you a good writing! :)
<pochu> night all!
<beuno> g'night pochu, thanks again!
<Amaranth> shit, still no manchicken
<Amaranth> i hope he made his flight
<Xk2c> hi
<Xk2c> i would like to set a bug/package on the whishlist for packaging
<Xk2c> how do i do that
<Xk2c> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-btdownload/+bug/99401
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 99401 in gnome-btdownload "gnome-btdownload" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Xk2c> ?
<Amaranth> !info gnome-btdownload
<ubotu> gnome-btdownload: Gnome interface for 'executing' BitTorrent files. In component main, is optional. Version 0.0.25-1ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 31 kB, installed size 288 kB
<Amaranth> that's #ubuntu-desktop stuff
<Xk2c> ic
<Xk2c> thansk for the information
<Xk2c> thanks
<persia> Xk2c: When the Debian maintainer is gone, Ubuntu will still maintain the (now more buggy) package,  If you have a patch that fixes one of the bugs, please mirror the bug in Ubuntu (be sure to link to Debian), and attach the patch to the bug.
<Xk2c> ic persia 
<persia> TheMuso: Please search prior to sync requests (bug #112606)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112606 in audacity "Pleas sync audacity 1.3.2-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112606
* persia runs and hides after misreading things
<TheMuso> persia: Heh.
<jmg> persia: lol
<TheMuso> persia: I was waiting for this to pop up.
<TheMuso> ardour that is.
* TheMuso loves all the archive changes on debian multimedia.
<TheMuso> Morning RAOF.
<RAOF> Mornin TheMuso 
<jml> RAOF: hi
<RAOF> Mornin to you jml :)
<jml> RAOF: it's actually afternoon over here/
<RAOF> You're in Seville?
<_MMA_> That would be night.
<_MMA_> Err. 2am.
<superm1> TheMuso, have a few moments for a revu of another package? 
<TheMuso> superm1: Sorry, no. I want to get some automated building of svn releases of packages set up, as users have been asking for them for weeks. I'll see how I feel mentally after that. :)
<superm1> TheMuso, okay thanks.  feel mentally great i hope afterwords :)
<TheMuso> superm1: Thanks.
<glick> hi
<glick> anyone up in here?
<bashelier> glick: I am
<bashelier> but I'm not a motu ;)
<glick> hey 
<bashelier> hey glick 
<glick> yo 
<persia> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya persia!!!
<RAOF> Hey Hobbsee, persia 
<Hobbsee> hi RAOF!
<persia> hi RAOF
<RAOF> Back from UDS Hobbsee?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yeah, just got home
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: You must be tired.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: not too bad - slept a lot of it
<TheMuso> Thats good.
<racarr> Or maybe she had 36 hours of invigorating refreshing travel.
<RAOF> Mmm, refershing overseas flights.  Just love em.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Amaranth> where is the buildd queue hidden in launchpad?
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: !
<Hobbsee> Amaranth!!!
<persia> Amaranth: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue is a good place to start
<Amaranth> wow, and i thought 21 hours was bad
<Amaranth> oh, but my luggage was on the flight after me
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> my luggage was on my flight
<Amaranth> and got wet along the way so the TSA "we went through your shit" notice blend ink on to a bunch of my shirts and shorts
<RAOF> That's pretty cool.  Very nice of them.
<jmg> lawl
<Amaranth> sparc and powerpc ftbfs doesn't block entry to the archive, does it?
<persia> Could someone with C++-fu please tell me why pname and test2 are different in http://pastebin.ca/486808 ?
<Amaranth> persia: what is pnames defined as?
<Amaranth> and did you check to see if you were overflowing?
<persia> Amaranth: Sorry.  I should past larger code snippets.  const char ** pnames
<Amaranth> did you ever malloc some space for it?
<persia> Amaranth: to answer that (and perhaps forestall some future questions): http://pastebin.ca/486816 provides a largeer snippet.
<Amaranth> hrm
* Amaranth will let someone with obvious answers and more time get to that one
<persia> Amaranth: Thanks for looking.
<Amaranth> with memory and C/C++ I just play with things until it works ;)
<RAOF> persia: possibly the cWX2MB call doesn't malloc the return value?
<RAOF> But that'd be a bit weird.
<Amaranth> right, that was my next idea
<Amaranth> having to manually malloc room and use strdup
<persia> RAOF: Thanks for the hint: it appears that my problem is that wxCharBuffer != wchar_t*.
<RAOF> That actually was going to be my next question :)
<RAOF> (About the return type of cWX2MB [what's with that name?] )
<persia> RAOF: wxwidgets is an interesting library: the names are especially fun :)
<Amaranth> wxwidgets is horrible
<RAOF> They clearly have a highly advanced automatic code generator generating the API.
<Amaranth> in the interest of working everywhere they've made a horrible library that is very similar to windows APIs
<RAOF> Even down to the annoying hugarian prefix variable naming scheme?
<Amaranth> apparently
<RAOF> Ugh.
<ranf> hi
<persia> hi ranf
<Simon80> so, I just sent a diff for updated zsnes to the Debian BTS, and the maintainer of the package took a year to address the last update request, albeit with no help from the reporter - should I also submit my package to revu then?
<Simon80> or wait a couple of weeks first?
<persia> Simon80: I'd give it a couple weeks.  There's plenty of time before the feature freeze, and it's better to sync than to carry separate packages.
<Simon80> k
<Simon80> on to the next package then :)
<superm1_> imbrandon, your mirror must be getting hammered right now, from pegasus i was getting 54.2 kb/s tops.  I switched over to a umn.edu mirror and i'm getting more along the lines of 2456 kb/s
* minghua-windows wonders if he is fighting a losing battle being the only bugmail contact of a main package
<Simon80> which package?
<minghua-windows> I just looked through all the bugs and found a few that haven't been responded to since reported months ago
<minghua-windows> Simon80: scim, the package I maintain in Debian
<Simon80> ah, scim
<Simon80> a package I know little about, save for the fact that I know little about it, and that there is much to know
<Simon80> it would help if I knew more than one alphabet, too
* minghua-windows only knows one alphabet, too, as Chinese doesn't have an alphabet :-)
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> what would you call it then?
<persia> minghua-windows: What about pinyin?
<Simon80> pinyin's not an alphabet, it's an input method
<Simon80> right?
* persia was under the impression it was a phonetic notation mechanism.
<Simon80> sure
<minghua-windows> Simon80: we just learn characters.  one by one, as there are thousands of them
<Simon80> indeed
<Simon80> I'm wondering what you'd call a huge set of characters like that though
<Simon80> a character set :)
<minghua-windows> persia: pinyin can use an alphabet, but it's not required
<persia> minghua-windows: Ah.  My misunderstanding then (I should really learn more than i ni san shi oo in Chinese).
<minghua-windows> for example, in mainland, we use latin alphabet for pinyin notation; in Taiwan, they use some strange symbol system (we used to use them 30 years ago as well)
* persia is only familiar with Taiwan pinyin
* Simon80 is only familiar with a few offensive verbal phrases in cantonese
<minghua-windows> I heard that Serbian people can use either latin alphabet or cyrillic alphabet to write their language, I suppose that's a similar situation
<minghua-windows> Simon80: personally, I suspect the reason we don't call is an alphabet is not because it's huge, but because there is no well-defined order :-)
<persia> minghua-windows: Somewhat, although I have heard significant debate as to whether the language is the same in cyrillic or latin (but then again, there is significant difference between kanji and hanzi, despite being self-represented identically).
<Simon80> that too
<minghua-windows> persia: what is "i ni san shi oo" BTW?  is that mandarin or cantonese?
<minghua-windows> persia: yeah, and many people think the Unicode people messed up when they make Chinese and Japanese use the same codepoints
<persia> minghua-windows: , , , , , and probably Taiwanese.
<Simon80> it looks more like mandarin to my untrained eye
<minghua-windows> persia: probably. it's not mandarin, and I happen to know how to count in Cantonese :-)
<Simon80> the romanised writing, I mean, I don't have a hope of understanding the glyphs
<persia> Simon80: Anyone should understand the first three (one, two, three) :)
<minghua-windows> Simon80: that's one to five in Chinese (script).  how to pronounce it depends on the language. :-)
<Simon80> ah, that doesn't look like how it sounds..
<persia> Simon80: Not at all.  I first learned as "ichi ni san yon go", for example.
<Simon80> I have to be a motu to join motu-games, don't I? :)
<persia> Simon80: Yes, but motu-games is very approachable.  If there is a game that is broken, and you can fix it, any of the members will be very happy to apply your fixes.
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> well, for now, I'm more going for adding packages
<Simon80> I suppose that's not necessarily welcome, extra work, hehe
<Simon80> I plan on submitting openglad next, it's this old DOS game I played back in the day
<Simon80> some people tried to clone it, and the original authors found out and gave them the source
<minghua-windows> praise the original authors
<Simon80> yes
<Simon80> it's a shame stepmania's default theme is all dubious as far as legal status, I tried to get that in first
<Simon80> I've had a few happy replies from the forum at least
<Simon80> about using that package and having things actually work
<Simon80> I have yet to set up a real repo though, with different dists, a pool directory, etc
<RAOF> Um, why is deluge-torrent not in Feisty any more?
<RAOF> Never mind, should've search LP first :(
<crimsun> nod.
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> Good afternoon :)
<Fujitsu> Good something.
<crimsun> dholbach: err, sorry for spamming -bugs.
<dholbach> what did you spam? how? :)
* dholbach did not notice yet
<crimsun> just noticed all my responses belonged in here, that's all.
<dholbach> ah ok - well... no problem :)
* siretart hugs dholbach 
* dholbach hugs siretart back
* persia declares C++ to be harmful, and suggests that fans of pointers should restrict themselves to ANSI C, and that fans of objects should use python or Java.
<siretart> :)
<crimsun> persia: what, you don't like templates and polymorphism?
<siretart> which you don't have to the same extent in neither python nor java
<persia> crimsun: I like templates, but I find it really frustrating that that *foo[i]  = (const foo*) bar doesn't behave properly when **foo is passed to another context.
<persia> s/bar/*bar/
<siretart> bad programmers can write bad code in any language
<wolfeon> yep
<wolfeon> -.- I still need to report the python=pam bug
<wolfeon> I need help writing a patch and makign a deb src package
<wolfeon> well
<wolfeon> generating the patch*
<persia> siretart: Yes, but with C, pointers really carry type information, and in python or Java, casts are managed.  Oh well, time to move the cast up a couple levels. :)
<persia> wolfeon: Which package?
<wolfeon> persia: python-pam
<wolfeon> it doesn't work at all with python 2.5 because the author was using the generic PyObject_free or some such, i patched it on my system, but would like to allow ubuntu to fix the problem
<wolfeon> by not working, I mean it causes python 2.5 to segfault if you do anything to a certain point, it would be something motu would want to push out as a major bugfix for release
<wolfeon> the current release*
<persia> wolfeon: For that package, there's no managed patch system.  The easiest way is to unpack a pristine copy of the source, make all the changes you need, update the changelog with `dch -i`, run debuild to make sure you didn't make a simple mistake, and run `debdiff repository-pakcage new-package` to generate the patch.  Testing the build with pbuilder or sbuild is also encouraged.
<wolfeon> hmm
<wolfeon> I'll have to do it tomarrow :/
<wolfeon> *tomorrow even
<persia> wolfeon: Actually, that's not the easiest way, just the preferred.  You could also rename the changed source tree, recollect the pristine source, and run `diff -urN pristine changed` to get a patch, but it would probably take longer to get to the archives.
<wolfeon> persia: all I know is.. anyone who is gonna use ubuntu on a server with webwareforpython or any framework which uses python-pam is gonna get a kick in the mouth when their app keeps segfaulting :))
<wolfeon> now if upstream would just accept the patch and release..
<persia> wolfeon: Good luck on getting it upstream, and thanks for finding a solution.
<gnomefreak> siretart: you still here? I never got email from revu with password and when i go to recover it doesnt give me anything to decrypt
<imbrandon> gnomefreak, have you uploaded anything yet?
<siretart> gnomefreak: revu doesn't send mails (at least not with passwords)
<gnomefreak> yes a few times
<siretart> gnomefreak: what is your email with which you uploaded your packages?
<gnomefreak> ive uploaded iceape a couple of times and would like to comment. gnomefreak@ubuntu.com
<\sh> are we using debians ice* for gutsy? or why do we need iceape?
<dholbach> \sh: best to ask asac on #ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> oh no, he's around here as well
<gnomefreak> yes
<asac> whats up?
<gnomefreak> would rather use iceape than seamonkey branding atm
<\sh> dholbach, asac == ubuntus new mozilla * maintainer? 
<gnomefreak> asac: branding
<asac> ah ... yes we will merge iceape for now
* gnomefreak fixing it as we speak ;)
<dholbach> \sh: yes - asac is the Mozilla Wizard
<crimsun> I just realised (duh!) what use it would be (the Completely Free derivative).
<asac> gnomefreak: i still don't see why you get your build problems .. iceape spins fine here
<asac> i am inclined to just upload it
<gnomefreak> asac: i dont know why it was failing from bzr
<asac> hmmm
<gnomefreak> its building fine using source from repos
<asac> i am using bzr here
<gnomefreak> asac: im not only person that it failed for though
<asac> who else?
<gnomefreak> asac: did you use -nc?
<asac> no -b
<gnomefreak> bddebian
<asac> for aclean build
<gnomefreak> it fails during testing it
<crimsun> to be clear, it failed using pbuilder.
<gnomefreak> asac: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5092
<asac> what failed using pbuilder? building from bzr?
<gnomefreak> comment is there
<\sh> asac: why the change from mozilla name use to debians name use (forgetting the debianb/control changes)? 
<gnomefreak> asac: i believe they were building off source i uploaded
<gnomefreak> if i use -S -sa it doesnt fail. but fails during testing build at patches
<asac> \sh: main reason for now is that its more efficient to use debian as upstream
<gnomefreak> hopefully in next hour or 2 i should have it uploaded to revu again as fixed
<asac> gnomefreak: so you figured out why it fails?
<asac> if that patch fails to apply your source base appears to be messed up
<asac> e.g. maybe you used from upstream version to build orig.tar.gz
<asac> wrong upstream version i mean
<gnomefreak> i used same one i have been using i think
<asac> think is probably not good enough :)
<gnomefreak> its same one
<gnomefreak> it was released on 2/22 or something like that
<gnomefreak> the latest on ftp.mozilla
<gnomefreak> i thought maybe bad download but i did it 4 times
<gnomefreak> but lets see what happens with this build
<asac> gnomefreak: we had a good tarball once ... what happened to it? why did you actually repack the orig at all?
<gnomefreak> asac: i used the upstream i had to build from bzr
<gnomefreak> not sure why repo source builds and bzr doesnt
<asac> look at the contents of the orig tarball
<gnomefreak> mike never commented on a change since i released mt8
<asac> its messed up
<asac> you forgot to move mozilla/* .
<asac> before running source target
<gnomefreak> oh damn
<asac> e.g. your tarball contains
<asac> ubuntu-1.1.x/mozilla/
<asac> but it should be just mozilla/
<gnomefreak> that could explain it :(
<asac> sure
<asac> i should try to make it easier to setup tarball in future i guess
<gnomefreak> ah wait i remeember why i didnt do that
<gnomefreak> * debian/*mozilla*: Removed.
<gnomefreak> that was mikes last entry in changelog we have
<gnomefreak> apr. 21st entry
<asac> gnomefreak: there is nothing in that which would influence how the tarball looks like
<asac> and actually we don't have that change synched to bzr afaik
<gnomefreak> it is in changelog  from bzr so i assumed we had that change
<asac> where?
<asac> https://code.launchpad.net/~johnvivirito/iceape/ubuntu-1.1.x
<asac> not there
<gnomefreak> no mozillateam one
<asac> https://code.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/iceape/ubuntu-1.1.x
<asac> not there either
<asac> its just in the debian branch
<asac> https://code.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/iceape/debian-1.1.x
<asac> but we don't have those changes
<asac> anyway ... even if we would have them it doesn't matter for the orig.tar.gz
<asac> its just that the mozilla transition package is gone in debian
<gnomefreak> ok let me try it after moving mozilla
<asac> yep
<asac> it should work
<gnomefreak> asac: while your here. installing the nspr and nss -dev packages wanting to remove firefox and friends has now made it to a bug. its a liferea bug. is there anything we can do about that?
<gnomefreak> asac: bug 98725
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 98725 in liferea "[feisty]  liferea crash with undefined symbol PR_NewMonitor" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/98725
<asac> gnomefreak: that bug is something different
<asac> its not reproducible for some
<gnomefreak> asac: if you look at it he comments about it
<gnomefreak> asac: installing libnss3-dev and libnspr4-dev will want to remove the -0d and ffox and friends packages
<gnomefreak> and/or
<gnomefreak> its fine for us but if someone wants to compile it, to be on safe side they would have to make chroot or lose alot of important packages. one of the comments mentions that in that bug
<gnomefreak> fairly sure that is the bug
<gnomefreak> looking
<gnomefreak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liferea/+bug/98725/comments/36
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 98725 in liferea "[feisty]  liferea crash with undefined symbol PR_NewMonitor" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  
<gnomefreak> its backwards the way he put it but either way installing the lib will remove hte -dev installing the -dev will remove alot
<asac> gnomefreak: we cannot bother for that
<asac> if they install libnspr4-dev all should be fine
<asac> only libnspr-dev and libnss-dev might cause problems?
<asac> or?
<asac> if not it doesn't matter anyway :)
<gnomefreak> one or other
<asac> now that firefox is transitioned it should not happen anyway anymore
<gnomefreak> install either one of them you lose ff and everything else including yelp, evo
<asac> you will loose all apps that have not been respun so far
<gnomefreak> bug 75279
<gnomefreak> that is the main bug that i remember
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 75279 in xulrunner "Installing libnspr4-dev removes many packages related to firefox" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75279
<asac> thats so old it shouldn't matter anymore
<asac> and its from xulrunner
<gnomefreak> ill test it later to make sure its gone in gutsy but i think it is still there
<gnomefreak> thats one of the reason i have gutsy chroot in a gutsy main sys
<asac> gnomefreak: if you have up-to-date gutsy firefox should not be removed anymore
<asac> maybe evo needs respin
<gnomefreak> that bug above has nothing to do with xulrunner though
<asac> it has
<gnomefreak> will test
<asac> libnspr4-dev was provided by xulrunner
<asac> thats why it was filed against xulrunner
<asac> (see ubotu output)
<asac> i just closed it
<gnomefreak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nspr/+bug/113091
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113091 in nspr "libnspr4-dev broken" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<gnomefreak> newest one
<gnomefreak> but that is u-d package it removes
<gnomefreak> updating gutsy chroot (will let you know about this and when i-a is done uploading
<asac> yes
<asac> all packages that depend on libnspr/libnss need a respin
<asac> took the bug 113091
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113091 in nspr "libnspr4-dev broken" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113091
<orion2012> Is there some way to request that MOTUs review a package on REVU, or should I just shut up and be patient?
<gnomefreak> orion2012: ask them to please review it and post link with comment
<asac> gnomefreak: can you please use version to 1.1.1+ubuntu1-1 in mozillateam repo and make it ready for release?
<orion2012> gnomefreak: in here or on the REVU mailing list?
<gnomefreak> orion2012: example: can someone please review <link>
<gnomefreak> orion2012: here
<orion2012> gnomefreak: thanks
<asac> gnomefreak: we need a different upstream version as our tarball is not exactly the debian one
<gnomefreak> asac: for iceape in gutsy?
<asac> yes
<orion2012> Will some additional MOTUs please take a look at gconf-cleaner (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5103). Thank you.
<gnomefreak> respin with that version instead of  iceape_1.1.1-3ubuntu1
<asac> gnomefreak: yeah ... or use 1.1.1+ubuntu1-0ubuntu1 :)
<asac> i guess we need the latter so no automatic merge is tried
<asac> aeh sync i mean
<gnomefreak> 2 ubuntu in one version?
<asac> upstream tarball version is ubuntu specific + package revision is ubuntu so no sync is tried
<asac> not sure if the latter is needed
<asac> but it won't hurt
<gnomefreak> 1.1.1+ubuntu1-0ubuntu1 == version you want in gutsy?
* gnomefreak never have seen that before
<asac> yes :)
<asac> i guess noone patches the debian orig tarball :)
<gnomefreak> ok ;)
<asac> ok lets use 1.1.1+u1-0ubuntu1 ... to not make it too confusing
<gnomefreak> k
<asac> just check the version change to bzr
<asac> i will upload from there
<gnomefreak> if i kill my upload would i need its peices removed?
<asac> no need for revu :)
<asac> gnomefreak: yes
<asac> better keep it going
<gnomefreak> revu == easier tha bzr :) can you take from revu and ill push to bzr little later in afternoon? its still early here
<asac> dunno ... revu takes ages ... bzr just a few seconds
<gnomefreak> either way i have to respin it
<asac> gnomefreak: no ... just change latest version and push that to bzr ... no respin needed. If things fail i will come back
<pochu> asac, gnomefreak: maybe make it a native package? 1.1.1ubuntu1?
<cbx33> hey guys....howz it going
<asac> native? why that? we have an orig.tar.gz ... though it contains some branding info
<pochu> ah, ok
<cbx33> I've broken a kde app....I need to change config options....where are they stored?
<pochu> asac: btw, if your package have a -3ubuntu1, it won't be synced
<cbx33> I can't load it anymore to get access to said options
<pochu> s/have/has/
<asac> pochu: yes, but our orig.tar.gz is different
<asac> from debian ones
<pochu> ok :)
<asac> so orig.tar.gz version should be different
<persia> Would anyone mind taking a look at a new freqtweak (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5141) before I send it to Debian?
<pochu> persia: if it's going to debian, you may want to change gutsy and -0ubuntu1 in the changelog ;)
<asac> cbx33: there should be a command line tool to read/write kde settings. maybe ask on some kubuntu channel and let me know :)
<persia> pochu: Pending Debian changes include 1: Debian version number, 2: upload to unstable, 3: add "New Maintainer (closes: #352540)" to changelog, 4: undo XSBC-Original-Maintainer.  Do you see anything else?
<pochu> persia: nothing else :)
<persia> pochu: Thanks for looking.
<pochu> persia: have you built it in a sid environment?
<persia> pochu: I did, but for a prior revision (whist it was still pitting random segments of memory to JACK).  I'll rebuild, and adjust build-deps if required before submission.
<pochu> cool :)
<StevenK> persia: Do you have sponsor that can upload to Debian?
<persia> StevenK: ASCIIGirl volunteered to help me steer this one, but I was hoping for a REVU first to reduce her effort.
<gnomefreak> siretart: were you able to find out why i get this? http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=gnomefreak@ubuntu.com
<siretart> gnomefreak: not yet, I need to look at that this evening (currently too busy)
<gnomefreak> ok thats fine thank you
<gnomefreak> is there a meta package for build tools? dput dpatch ....
<fernando> moin all
<persia> gnomefreak: No.  devscripts is as much as you'll get, but dpatch needs to be in build-depends (and apt-get build-depends...)
<gnomefreak> persia: yeah i know that but you cant apt-get build-dep packages that are not in ubuntu yet
<persia> gnomefreak: Try installing all the suggests from maint-guide, which might help stick it in your package manager.
<Hobbsee> persia: seems like you'll get it...
<gnomefreak> oh i have a list of them i was just wondering if there was one
* persia considers a script to parse the Build-Depends of the current source package, and call apt-get to install them.
<gnomefreak> persia: apt-get build-dep package already does that
<Hobbsee> not if it's not in apt
<persia> Hobbsee: I have to wait for a certain kiwi to finish traveling :)
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: right
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, hopefully he'll be home soon
<StevenK> pbuilder has two scripts to do it, too.
<Hobbsee> else he'll be beating our record
<persia> gnomefreak: As you said before, not for packages not yet in Ubuntu
<StevenK> persia: Look at /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends
<StevenK> And on Feisty, /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends-gdebi
<gnomefreak> oh you mean parse the deps on packages in debian that are not yet in ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: the source package, likely the one being built for ubuntu
<persia> gnomefreak: That looks good - use the scripts from pbuilder directly.
<Hobbsee> persia: raises the interesting question of why you're not using a pbuilder, though
<StevenK> Or sbuild, at a pinch
<persia> .me has successfully transitioned from fresh vmware images to sbuild on schroot.
<persia> Darn dots!
* gnomefreak thinks pbuilder is way to hard to use atleast comapred to dpkg-buildpackage on its own
<StevenK> gnomefreak: Huh? pdebuild and be happy
* persia prefers local debuild for patch generation: allows use of make to catch up whilst figuring out what one needs to do.  Other tools are for testing.
* gnomefreak thinks of trying schroot instead of dchroot to see if anything is different
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: just use pbuilder.
<persia> gnomefreak: Using schroot on LVM allows you to automatically toss the results of the build tree once it's compelte, so there's no cleanup.
<gnomefreak> ah
<StevenK> I've been meaning to try schroot + LVM
<StevenK> Now that I have a machine with LVM on root, and 200Gb not allocated.
<persia> gnomefreak: StevenK: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto is the document I used, http://www.pseudorandom.co.uk/2007/sbuild/ seems a little more updated, although I trust the author of the first.
<StevenK> persia: I've been waiting for some spare tuits.
<persia> StevenK: I understand.  I put it off for several months after the author patiently explained to me exactly why I should be using the first document :)
<StevenK> Heh
<persia> StevenK: When I actually did it, the process took about 45 minutes.
<StevenK> sbuild is a little ... wacky, though.
<persia> StevenK: ?
<StevenK> persia: sbuild has been around for a while, and it's code is a little interesting. :-)
<persia> StevenK: I haven't looked at the sbuild code, but definitely feel more comfortable that I am building locally with the same system used on the buildds (at least for now).
<StevenK> Personally, I haven't had much reason to doubt pbuilder.
<jussi01> good afternon motu's
<persia> StevenK: I've never used pbuilder, so don't really have an opinion about it's suitability.
<jussi01> Im wondering if there is a list somewhere of things that people would like packaged, bugs maybe? Im looking to be a little useful by packaging something, but i want people to actually want it...
<StevenK> persia: It has a base tarball, which is a clean chroot, it is unpacked, chrooted into, build depends installed, package attempted to build, and then cleaned up.
<StevenK> In a nutshell.
<gnomefreak> jussi01: bugs that have tag or title needs-packaging
<persia> jussi01: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
<jussi01> ok, thanks alot, Im gonna give one of those a go :D
<StevenK> There's also cowbuilder, cow being Copy-on-write.
<persia> StevenK: That sounds sensible.  I'm not sure I'm ready for another transition of my build & test workflow yet, but perhaps I'll give pbuilder a try next time.  For now, LVM-snapshot leaves me worry free about corruption.
<xxxxx1> morning!
<Hobbsee> hiya
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, do you have a minute for a merge?
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: whihc one?
<Hobbsee> hiya geser 
<xxxxx1> guys
<xxxxx1> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5110
<xxxxx1> ecryptfs-utils
<xxxxx1> can someone review?
<xxxxx1> pls
<superm1> hey Hobbsee .  would you be able to follow up with a second review of a package you looked at for me before?  mythbuntu-artwork-usplash, http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=5140
<siretart> xxxxx1: hi
<siretart> xxxxx1: I did take a close look at the package, and noticed that there is ongoing work on that package in debian
<xxxxx1> hello
<xxxxx1> :)
<siretart> xxxxx1: I created a bug on it in launchpad and subscribed you
<xxxxx1> well
<siretart> xxxxx1: did you have contact to the guys over there?
<xxxxx1> . /wind new query siretart hide
<xxxxx1> :)
<orion2012> I've fixed everything the bddebian requested, could someone please take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5103 ? Thanks.
<orion2012> err, s/the/that/
<persia> orion2012: http://pastebin.ca/487404
* Fujitsu wonders what this big green alternate forum ad is doing on ubuntuforums.
<orion2012> persia: thanks.
<jussi01> Fujitsu: ubuntu-geek is the forum boss... and doenst he own the other one?
<persia> orion2012: 2b is probably safer, but breaks some builds (or pulls in undesireable libraries), so you may need 2a.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's forumcrack again
<Treenaks> hmmm... crack
<Fujitsu> jussi01: I still don't really find it appropriate.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Well, yes.
<orion2012> persia: does the manpage dash code apply to the body as well, or only the header?
<persia> orion2012: I haven't played with nroff macros in a long, long time, but my memory is that  \( expansions were applied prior to layout, and so should be able to be used equally well in the header or body of the manpage.
<orion2012> persia: no strange depends were added and it builds fine, so I'm going with gnome.mk. Thanks.
<persia> orion2012: That's probably better.  That way when the gnome hints change in the future, your package will automatically follow the current best practice.
<orion2012> persia: Uploaded.
<persia> orion2012: Now, you'll want to put the new number here, so an actual MOTU might review your package, and perhaps advocate it :)
<orion2012> MOTUs, please review, it's been updated http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5143
<ScottK> orion2012: I'm not a MOTU either...  so, FWIW, in /debian/copyright, \ No newline at end of file (I wouldn't do a new upload for this, but put it on your list if you have to) and why is the priority extra?
<StevenK> Priority is Special.
<orion2012> ScottK: good question
<orion2012> ScottK: vim's not showing a newline at the end of copyright
<ScottK> orion2012: Yes.  There should be one.
<orion2012> ScottK: ah, I see. OK
<ScottK> StevenK: ?
<ScottK> orion2012: I was just copying what was in the diff as a hint.  Sorry that wasn't clear.
<persia> Is there a policy statement somewhere about newlines?  I see a number of packages without newlines at the end of files, or with ^M before each newline in files.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<ScottK> Hi DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> Hi ScottK :)
<ScottK> persia: Dunno, but at the very least it makes for a cleaner diff.
<persia> ScottK: I agree with that, I was just wondering if I should be fixing those as a matter of course.
* ScottK is looking
<orion2012> ScottK: Those have been fixed. So, when you say don't upload but put it on the list, what do you mean?
<ScottK> orion2012: I didn't think they were significant enough to warrant a new upload to REVU (your call).
<Hobbsee> persia: i wouldnt bother with a separate upload for it, or something.  *shrug*
<ScottK> OTOH, it certainly doesn't hurt to upload it if you've fixed it.
* ScottK meant it was worth remembering to fix next time you upload, but not critical you do right now (IMO).
<orion2012> ScottK: OK, I see. Thanks.
<ScottK> orion2012: By "Fixed" did you change the priority?
<orion2012> ScottK: yes, to optional
<persia> Hobbsee: Certainly not.  If I did that I'd have to do *all* the merges for gutsy+1 :)  I was just wondering if those should be fixed in bugfix uploads, or only if the file was adjusted anyway.  I've been doing the latter to reduce the Debian diff, but I'm more than happy to increase the diff if it is a better match for policy (and I'm creating a diff in any case).
<ScottK> orion2012: Why was it extra to start with?  I asked why, didn't say change it.
<Hobbsee> persia: no idea, to be honest
<orion2012> orion2012: I copied another package's.
<ScottK> orion2012: If any of the dependencies are extra, then it has to be extra.
<ScottK> OK
<persia> Hobbsee: I'll stick with "minimize Debian diff" as the driver for that then.
<Hobbsee> okay
<ScottK> orion2012: Here's the reference so you can decide which is correct http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-priorities
<StevenK> Personally, I pick optional, and then change it if needed.
<ScottK> Makes sense.
<StevenK> optional for Priority is a good default unless it conflicts with stuff, at which point I demote it to extra.
* ScottK can't find a reference on newlines at the end of files.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks for looking.  By the way, did you ever have a chance to check my python changes for gaphor?
<ScottK> persia: Not yet.  It's on my list for this week.  Probably on Wed, but maybe tomorrow.
<orion2012> If someone files a needs-packaging bug but the package is already in Debian unstable and it builds cleanly unmodified, what's to be done with the bug?
<persia> ScottK: No rush.  I'm just between efforts right now.  I'll start on another wx2.4-> wx2.6 patch.
<ScottK> orion2012: I'd mark it fix released with a note that it'll be synced from Debian on the next auto-sync.
<persia> orion2012: First check to see if that package appears in the Ubuntu NEW queue (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue - search all states), and if not, search for bugs to see if it might have been removed.  If it's neither, the bug should become a sync request at the time of sync freeze.  In either case, consider linking the bug to an RFP or ITP bug in Debian (probably now closed).
<persia> orion2012: Don't mark it "Fix Released" until Ubuntu actually distributes the package.  Some packages are kept out of Ubuntu for various reasons, and it may be inappropriate.
<Hobbsee> persia: assuming one actually remembers to go back and mark it as fix released, yes
<Hobbsee> orion2012: which package?
<orion2012> gscan2pdf
<persia> Hobbsee: That's why we have bug subscriptions :)
<orion2012> Not in any gutsy queues.
<Hobbsee> persia: i get too many bug reports.  it doesnt help when i occasionally send them all to /dev/null
<persia> Hobbsee: I understand.  In your shoes, I would probably lose track as well.  For lowly contributors like myself though, bug subscriptions are an easy way to track bugs, and make sure they are closed.
<Hobbsee> persia: true.  i guess i get emails of everything i upload, so tend to be OK
<Hobbsee> and you're probably contributing more than me, at the moment
<persia> Hobbsee: Perhaps.  I haven't uploaded anything in about a week and a half, so we might be even.
<Hobbsee> persia: i've been overseas.  but have uploaded the odd bit of sponsors stuff.  that's a start :P
<persia> Hobbsee: See, you're already falling back into the rhythm :)
<Hobbsee> that was while i was overseas
<Hobbsee> with the supernice connection
<Hobbsee> got 1.2 mbps, dist-upgrading to gutsy...
<geser> Hobbsee: move to spain :)
<Hobbsee> geser: i'd prefer germany.
<Hobbsee> geser: maybe once i finish my degree
<geser> germany is also good
<Treenaks> hmm, Netherlands :)
* welshbyte listens to imbrandon pimping MOTU on lugradio :)
<imbrandon> oh yea , my interview is out on LR today, w00t
<zul> ohh yer special
<siretart> wheee, Hobbsee likes germany :)
<Hobbsee> siretart: from what i saw of it, yeah.
<Treenaks> siretart: There are enough Germans working on Ubuntu already ;)
<Hobbsee> siretart: i'm probably looking to move to europe somewhere, preferably in a language that i can speak, or partly speak
<Hobbsee> not sure when, though
<welshbyte> imbrandon: sounds like you had a bit of phone trouble, but good interview anyway, man
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: how long before you get your degree?
<siretart> :)
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: end of next year
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, spain rocks
<pochu> imbrandon: sure it does :)
<imbrandon> germany is cool too
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i know :)
<Treenaks> The Netherlands rocks even more :P
<imbrandon> tooo cold
<imbrandon> :)
<Treenaks> imbrandon: same as Germany, mostly ;)
<zul> Hobbsee: living in the UK the british might have trouble understanding your aussie accent or they might say the convicts are coming back run away :)
<imbrandon> heh
<pochu> What about Hawwaii? :)
<imbrandon> too expensive
<Hobbsee> zul: haha
<zul> Hawaii is not in europe
* siretart dist-upgrading to gutsy - let's see what breaks
<Treenaks> zul: We had that problem with ajmitch.. I can't tell if he's saying 'cheers' or 'chairs' 
<Hobbsee> siretart: nm is broken
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: yes.  and axe and ex
<zul> hah its worse with new zealanders :)
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: well, those concepts are actually related, aren't they? :)
<imbrandon> sheep ...
<pochu> siretart: and OOo
<siretart> Hobbsee: did it work as some point? ;)
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: hehe, true
<Hobbsee> siretart: sure.  in edgy, feisty
<siretart> serious, this is my desktop machine, no wifi onboard
<Hobbsee> it loaded, for a start
<Hobbsee> i didnt look much, once i found nm was broken
<siretart> fsvo working, right
<Hobbsee> seeing as i upgraded during uds
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: you have the special l33t European versions of the gutsy packages now
<zul> imbrandon: they are just ripping into you at the begininngin
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: hehe
<imbrandon> zul, you should have heard the un-recorded part of the call ;)
<zul> ouch
<xxxxx1> bddebian: \o/
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi xxxxx1
<bluekuja_> bddebian, hello barry :)
<persia> bddebian: Hi.  Also, Thanks.
<bddebian> Hi bluekuja_, persia
<bddebian> persia: No, THANK YOU! :-)
<bluekuja_> bddebian, do you have a minute for a merge?
<bddebian> Not really at the moment, sorry :-(
<bluekuja_> oh ok np :)
<Ash-Fox> Is it possible for someone to make a dummy-meta package (like the one done for mozilla-firefox) for libfaad0 to libfaad0-1 -- Debian uses this naming scheme and it would be great if package building would work universally both ways between the two.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<Ash-Fox> Naming example on Debian (they provide a dummy-meta package themselves to be compatible with Ubuntu): http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=libfaad&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
<bddebian> Heya geser
* persia disapproves of people who leave whilst their questions are still being investigated :(
<Hobbsee> persia: unless it's the network connection going down
<Hobbsee> persia: which (Remote closed the connection) usually means
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes, that happens, in which case the investigation continues :)
<Hobbsee> :P
<persia> Ash-Fox: It looks like the new Debian version of libfaad is based on the same source previously used by Ubuntu.  It is very likely that gutsy will include a package much more similar to that currently in Debian unstable.
<Ash-Fox> Thankyou persia :)
<leonel> hello motus !
<pochu> hi leonel
<pochu> though I'm not a motu :)
<leonel> me too..
<bddebian> Hello leonel, pochu
<pochu> hi bddebian 
<joejaxx> hello motu
<pochu> slomo: around? can you sponsor a liferea SRU? :) bug 103688
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 103688 in liferea "liferea crashes - ** ERROR **: file itemlist.c: line 172 (itemlist_load): assertion failed: (NULL != itemSet)" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103688
<bddebian> Hello joejaxx
<lfittl> joejaxx, hey :)
<joejaxx> :)
<randomwalker> is there a deadline for uploading a new package for it to have a chance of being in gutsy?
<pochu> There is, but we are still far from it :)
<persia> randomwalker: The deadline is in about a month.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU has instructions for uploading a package.  Once there, someone will review it and comment.  Once it has been advocated, it will be in the Ubuntu archives.
<Hobbsee> persia: a month?  that quick?
<randomwalker> cool, thanks. that's a lot of time
* persia checks the schedule again - somehow 8 weeks from archive open is in my mind
<randomwalker> dumb question: how much effort does it take to go from an rpm to a deb?
<pochu> persia: isn't it NewPackagesFreezeUniverse at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule ?
<randomwalker> i know there's alien, but it probably requires more, right?
<Hobbsee> randomwalker: ubuntu accepts sources
<persia> pochu: Yes.
<pochu> persia: then it's in about 3 months :)
<persia> randomwalker: I'm sorry - I was thinking of a different freeze.  You have 3.5 months :)
<randomwalker> awesome
<pochu> randomwalker: which package?
<randomwalker> pochu: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~arvindn/gretools/
<randomwalker> i wrote it a long time ago
<randomwalker> now that ubuntu is sorta going mainstream i thought it might be a good idea to package it
<bddebian> Sorta going mainstream? Heh
<joejaxx> :P
<randomwalker> bddebian: well, isn't it?
<bddebian> randomwalker: Well considering Dell is going to start shipping it, I would say it IS mainstream :-)
<randomwalker> bddebian: yeah, that's kinda what i meant too
<randomwalker> question about the gpg key -- will i need to sign emails to upload a package?
<persia> randomwalker: No, but you will need to sign the package for the upload to be accepted.  The system needs to know it is from you to trust it.
<randomwalker> persia, yes i understand that, i've done that before. just checking about email because gmail doesn't support gpg
<randomwalker> persia, thanks
<persia> randomwalker: Try FireGPG (http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org/) or the POP/SMTP interface for gmail.
<randomwalker> persia, cool, thanks
<sacater> Hey, I am running xubuntu on my laptop, what is the Archive Manager installled by default in ubuntu called?
<sacater> i need to install :D
<pochu> sacater: nautilus?
<randomwalker> is it a bad idea to change the name of a (new) package?
<randomwalker> in the sense, could it cause problems if it has a different name in other distros
<pochu> randomwalker: change it upstream ;)
<randomwalker> pochu: what's that mean?
<pochu> randomwalker: weren't you the developer?
<randomwalker> pochu: yeah
<pochu> randomwalker: if you change it in the program itself, every other distro should change it :)
<randomwalker> pochu: i don't want to do that, that will piss off people who might be already using it
<randomwalker> pochu: besides, i'm not even in touch with the people who packaged it for other distros
<randomwalker> i wish i understood better how this stuff worked
<randomwalker> who controls what and stuff like that
<pochu> randomwalker: I think it can be changed in a distro, but I don't think it's a good idea
<randomwalker> pochu ok
<pochu> randomwalker: don't you like the name? :)
<randomwalker> pochu: its a terrible name
<randomwalker> pochu: i really don't even remember how i picked it
<pochu> hehe
<randomwalker> pochu: when i posted it on gnomedesktop.org people asked, "cool program, but what's with the name?"
<pochu> hehe :)
<sacater> pochu: no...
<sacater> pochu: just the archiver
<sacater> the one that is there by default
<sacater> in accessories
<pochu> oh
<pochu> file roller :)
<sacater> mmmk
<sacater> letsee..
<sacater> pochu: one more month then I get to try for membership
<sacater> re-try
<tuxmaniac> Does the fridge.ubuntu.com/events use some sort of wiki to show the schedule of events?
<pochu> sacater: rock on :)
<sacater> pochu: will do :D
* joejaxx wonders when he should go for motuship
<joejaxx> s/should/will be able to/g
<apachelogger> ahoy there :)
<joejaxx> hello 
<joejaxx> :)
<apachelogger> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5031 currently does produce a library package which includes 'debian/tmp/usr/lib/libkhalkhi*.so.*' and 'debian/tmp/usr/lib/kde3/khalkhi*'
<apachelogger> however lintian stats   W: libkhalkhi0: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libkhalkhicore0 libkhalkhigui0
<bddebian> apachelogger: soname mismatch
<apachelogger> yeah
<slytherin> Seveas: ping
<apachelogger> but what am I supposed with the lib/kde3 files
<Seveas> slytherin, pong
<apachelogger> meaning they don't belong to a libkhalkhicore0 neither to a libkhalkhigui0 package
<slytherin> Seveas: what is the procedure to get the bug bot on a loco channel.
<Seveas> slytherin, which channel
<Seveas> ?
<bddebian> apachelogger: You need to fix the sonames on libkalkhicore0 and libkalkhigui0
<slytherin> Seveas: #ubuntu-in
<apachelogger> bddebian: how to?
<Seveas> @join #ubuntu-in
<bddebian> apachelogger: check the soname of the resulting .so files.  use objdump or so
<bddebian> apachelogger: Like "objdump -x libkhalkhigui0.so |grep SONAME" and see what you get
<apachelogger>   SONAME      libkhalkhigui.so.0
<bddebian> apachelogger: Check this link out:  http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html#sonameapiabi
<geser> apachelogger: it warns because the package is named libkhalkhi0 but the lib itself is named libkhalkhicore and libkhalkhigui
<bddebian> Right, like geser said. :-)
<apachelogger> yeah
<apachelogger> but what to do with that warning?
<bddebian> Fix it :)
<apachelogger> don't want to :P
<apachelogger> bddebian: wouldn't splitting the package fix it?
<bddebian> The package name in debian/control should be libkhalkhi no libkhalkhi0 it looks like
<apachelogger> hm
<geser> libkhalkhi0 is ok if it should ship both libs
* apachelogger tries
<apachelogger> so?
<geser> splitting would fix it
<geser> but does it makes sense?
<apachelogger> no
<geser> can the libs be used independently?
<apachelogger> well, I suppose, but it isn't done
<apachelogger> would only make sense if someone makes a gnome frontend to khalkhi
<apachelogger> but whether a gnome frontend to a kaddressbook abstraction lib would be usefull is out of question ;-)
<geser> then I would ignore it, it's only a warning
<apachelogger> k
<apachelogger> thx
<apachelogger> btw
<geser> while looking at the control file: remove libkhalkhi0 (= ${Source-Version}) for khalkhi, ${shlips:Depends} should pick it up
<apachelogger> version 0.2.1.99+rc1 is ok for  0.2.2-rc1 ?
<geser> yes, it's a way to solve it
<apachelogger> geser: the khalkhi package is just a meta package since the whole khalkhi suite splits up to quite some packages
<bddebian> I still don't see why libkhalkhi0 makes sense
<geser> the the real binary should pick up the lib
<apachelogger> hm, ok :)
<bddebian> Oh nm, I'm on crack as usual
<apachelogger> bddebian: I could also split it up, but that leads to the "where shall I put the lib/kde3 files in?" question
* apachelogger does a test build
<maxcoder> ubuntu install with boot manager is not install?
<randomwalker> why are so many bugs in launchpad "unconfirmed" even after a number of people have echoed it?
<randomwalker> this one for instance - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/63544
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 63544 in ubuntu-meta "Volume control key controls speaker & not headphones" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<pochu> randomwalker: becouse there are few bug triagers and a lof of bugs
<randomwalker> pochu: a bug has to be approved by a triager before it is marked new?
<pochu> randomwalker: and regarding that bug, because it's in the wrong package!! :)
<pochu> randomwalker: no, anybody can triage bugs :)
<randomwalker> can you give me a link to how i can get started?
<pochu> sure :)
<Hobbsee> randomwalker: [04:32]  *** The channel topic is "Ubuntu BugSquad | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Documentation: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | If you have been triaging bugs for a while, please apply to https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-qa/ - http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugsquad | HAPPY UNIVERSE HUG DAY | HAPPY HUG DAY".
* apachelogger hopes he didn't break anything
<pochu> Hobbsee: thanks :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<stratus> ajmitch: howdy? Does MOTU has a sort of ITP list somewhere (malone?) ?
<randomwalker> pochu, Hobbsee thanks
<geser> stratus: there is only a RFP list
<Hobbsee> stratus: yes, search for bugs with a needs-packaging tag
<Hobbsee> i believe
<ranf_>  stratus bugs tagged with "needs-packaging"
<Adri2000> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging :)
<apachelogger> ha!
<apachelogger> Hobbsee: anyone on kdenlive yet?
<Hobbsee> apachelogger: sorry?
<stratus> hm, RFP okay but what if I'm working on a shiny new package that isn't listed there and somebody else is doing the same thing ?
<stratus> we both can upload the goodies and waste time? :|
<apachelogger> Hobbsee: if someone is already workin on a kdenlive package, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/93892 seems so
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 93892 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  KDenlive" [Wishlist,In progress]  
<ranf_> stratus, file a bug early
<Hobbsee> apachelogger: ask Lutin, he's the one who filed it
<stratus> ranf_: so 'needs-packaging' actually work as both RFP and ITP list, then?
<pochu> stratus: yes
<ranf_> stratus, I don't really know what the difference between the 2 is.
<pochu> stratus: ITP could be a needs-packaging "In progress" ;)
<pochu> or assigned
<stratus> pochu: oh, makes sense.
<apachelogger> geser, bddebian: there we go :) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5145
<stratus> ranf_: ITP is intent to package and RFP is request for package.
<stratus> ranf_: You can RFP something but I can ITP something else, do you see the difference?
<stratus> ranf_: Ubuntu needs-packaging actually condenses both concepts (RFP and ITP).
<ranf_> stratus, ITP is I do it , RFP is i'd like to have that pkg?
<stratus> I was reading MOTU wiki articles and identified the sponsors related stuff but failed to see something about needs-packaging and these concepts.
<Lutin> apachelogger: kdenlive is blocked because of ffmpeg atm
<stratus> ranf_: exactly.
<apachelogger> Lutin: sad :(
<ranf_> stratus, ok
<stratus> ranf_: but needs-packaging "in progress" or assigned as pochu pointed out, cover the ITP concept
<Lutin> apachelogger: yep
<Lutin> apachelogger: don't know at all when it'll be ok
* apachelogger set investigation on his todo :D
<stratus> and thanks for the clarification! :)
<Lutin> apachelogger: lol
<geser> stratus: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<stratus> geser: hmm, missing link at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New - no?
<geser> I see it there under "Request packaging of a new software in Ubuntu"
<stratus> geser: uh, my fail
<DarkSun88> geser: Can you so kind to check this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nagat/+bug/93938
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 93938 in nagat "[UNMETDEPS]  nagat has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Fix committed]  
<hendrixski> is this a good channel to ask newbie questions about packaging and packaging tools?
<hendrixski> or are there channels specifically for that?
<geser> hendrixski: you are right here
<hendrixski> geser, well, small questions actually...
<hendrixski> I have a chroot I created, not with pbuilder, and I was wondering if I can't also use that same one with pbuilder?
<hendrixski> or will pbuilder only work on chroots made with pbuilder?
<pochu> mr_pouit: welcome back :)
<mr_pouit> hi there
<mr_pouit> hi pochu :)
<pochu> hello :)
<pochu> mr_pouit: btw, scribes was uploaded to Debian, but it was rejected due to the logo being licensed under a CC license (incompatible with the GPL)
<pochu> but the next release will have a new GPL logo :)
<geser> hendrixski: pbuilder has an one tar-ed chroot (base.tgz) which gets extracted for every build and removed afterwards (the extracted one)
<hendrixski> geser, oooohhh... so it's not an actual chroot, it's a tar of a chroot?
<geser> I don't know of a way to use an existing chroot with pbuilder, but you can use the chroot still for building (but you have to install the build-deps yourself and cleanup afterwards)
<mr_pouit> pochu: if the package is ready, you could upload it to ubuntu, and ask for a sync with debian for the next release
<geser> hendrixski: yes
<hendrixski> geser, Ok... now I feel silly for spending so much time looking for how to do that .. :-/
<hendrixski> geser, another small question if I may :-)
<geser> sure
<hendrixski> python files don't have a makefile, right? so how does one package them?  I've seen reference to a dh_python, but am confused as to how it all works
<geser> dh_python is obsolete and should be used in new packages
<geser> there is python-support and python-central
<hendrixski> oh
<hendrixski> wow, good thing I asked
<geser> see http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ for the current python policy
<hendrixski> sweet 
<geser> there is also http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy which might help you
<hendrixski> wow... there's so much to read and learn when it comes to packaging
<hendrixski> how long does it take someone to get reasonably good at it?
<geser> if your python programm uses distutils (for installing) there is a ready snippet for it
<geser> it depends on which kind of software you want to package
<hendrixski> geser, for now it's just a hello world program.  I guess I should learn distutils first?
<geser> many kinds of software have a subpolicy for how to package (library, python, TeX, perl(?), etc.)
<hendrixski> Eventually, I want to work on MythTV and Democracy TV (possibly even create a plugin that includes dtv into myth)
<geser> hendrixski: I'm not very familiar with python packaging so I can't tell you if it's good to learn distutils or not
<geser> afaik the decision to use distutils or not is made by the upstream devs
<hendrixski> aha
<hendrixski> wow... I just learned more in 3 minutes by asking questions than I did reading about this for a few hours
<hendrixski> really puts it in perspective
<pochu> mr_pouit: will it be accepted, even with the logo license issue?
<pochu> mr_pouit: btw, I hope there's a new upstream release soon
<pochu> and asap it's there, I'll upload to debian :)
<pochu> and request a sync
<hendrixski> geser, so, if there is no dist-utils, then installing it is manually done with commands in debian/rules...? like cp this there rm that etc. etc.>
<mr_pouit> pochu: iirc, cc licenses aren't an issue for universe... (but I can be wrong)
<geser> hendrixski: yes, but it should be described in a README or INSTALL from upstream how to install its sofware
<hendrixski> geser, cool  Thanks.   So I'll go check out the python policy link you sent me.  If I have questions, this is the right channel to come to ask, right?
<geser> yes
<hendrixski> geser, thanks again, I'll definitely be hanging around with lots of 'em... gonna help keep Ubuntu in the #1 spot
<pochu> mr_pouit: thanks for the info :) I think that I'll change for a new release, though :)
<mr_pouit> ok ;)
<dothebart> hm, debuild -S -sa keeps telling me, my key is not available...
<dothebart> shsouldn't it ask me for my key password when i call it?
<DktrKranz> dothebart, use -kyouremailaddres@yourdomain
<dothebart> ah!
<dothebart> now it tells me that i need a passphrase, but doesn't ask me...
<DktrKranz> you have to insert yours
<DktrKranz> it doesn't show you a seahorse window or some
<DktrKranz> just a new line stating to insert your password
<dothebart> do i have to pipe it into debuild?
<dothebart> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: bad passphrase
<DktrKranz> dothebart, which version do you have
<DktrKranz> ?
<dothebart> the one that comes with sid
<DktrKranz> some are buggy
<DktrKranz> anyway, use -uc -us
<DktrKranz> you can sign it later using debsign
<gnomefreak> why use -kEMAIL why not use -kKEYID
<dothebart> i've got that GPGKEY in my environment... shouldn't it look at that automagic then?
<gnomefreak> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa will use your gpg key without using -k flag
<gnomefreak> *should*
<dothebart> ah, that pops up a dialog.
<gnomefreak> that might be your gnome-keyring dialog
<dothebart> yes.
<dothebart> it now has signed the dsc file, is that what needs to be done?
<gnomefreak> once you enter your gnome-keyring password it should sign the .dsc
<gnomefreak> dothebart: yep
<dothebart> looking good...
<gnomefreak> afaik -k flag doesnt handle email addresses
<dothebart> the wiki tells to put pinentry program to set to -gtk-2
<dothebart> if i don't, will it ask on the shell without X?
<gnomefreak> dothebart: what wiki?
<dothebart> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<gnomefreak> that will just make it not ask you all the time to enter it
<gnomefreak> but only for 24 hours
<dothebart> but the -ncurses one, shouldn't that to without X11?
<gnomefreak> yes but if you saved your password for your gpg key in gnome-keyring that dialog will always pop up
<gnomefreak> take it out of g-kr and the X dialog should no longer ask you for it
<dothebart> ok, at least i got my two files signed.
<dothebart> is there a way to call that thang like ssh-add?
<dothebart> it left me with a prompt that i didn't know what to do with...
<gnomefreak> the dialog box?
<dothebart> the pinentry program...
<gnomefreak> oh that i dont know
<gnomefreak> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GPGsigningforSSHHowTo
<dothebart> isn't that what did that popup?
<gnomefreak> maybe that will help
<gnomefreak> dothebart: i didnt see your popup. was it ncurses or X11?
<gnomefreak> pinentry == ncurses and g-kr-m == X11 afaik
<dothebart> hm, thats not what what i was asking... i just wanted a shell prompt, not to use my gpg key for ssh authentication...
<dothebart> hm, i've installed the gtk one, as the faq told me...
<dothebart> well, right now i've got them signed. so let's try to upload them.
* gnomefreak never used gpg for ssh when i use ssh it asks me for my ssh key passphrase
<dothebart> i don't either...
<freezone> hi guys
<dothebart> ah, revu upload works.
* rgl waves
* freezone sits next to imbrandon 
<dothebart> looks good. except the mesage 'not running dinstall' but thats ok?
<imbrandon> hello freezone
<imbrandon> dothebart, thats normal
<dothebart> ah, fine.
<dothebart> hm, the wiki tells which credentials to use for revu, but now which protocol to use and which url...
<imbrandon> dput to upload if thats what you mean
<dothebart> well, ok, wasn't that hard to figure out, but a link would be nice ;)
<imbrandon> http://revu.tauware.de/
<dothebart> yes.
<dothebart> hm, the password recovery tells me to use the text below, but there is none...
<imbrandon> then likely it hasent registered your upload yet in the DB
<imbrandon> if it dosent show soon poke siretart when he is non-afk
<dothebart> how long could that take?
<dothebart> as its .de, does it run and print its time in german timezone?
<dothebart> the latest upload, dvgrab, is 11 hours ago...
<ScottK> keescook: Did you get the squirrelmail situation sorted?
<keescook> ScottK: I think I understand what's needed, but I haven't uploaded the diffs yet.  (Has anyone tested them on feisty yet?)
<ScottK> keescook: Good.  IIRC, leonel (who made the diff) built and tested it on Feisty.
* ScottK helped him some along the way, but did no testing.
<keescook> okay, cool.  I will get it built up.  :)
<ScottK> keescook: He also said he was going to do updates for Edgy and Dapper, but they have other security issues outstanding too, so be prepared for a largish diff on those.
<geser> dothebart:  Please note, all times on this page are in UTC-4.
<geser> from the revu homepage
<dothebart> geser: which city would that be?
<geser> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC-4
<dothebart> hm. ok, too late to calc here... i'm in EST / GMT +2, whats the offset?
<keescook> ScottK: okay, great.
<DktrKranz> dothebart, I think +6
<dothebart> hm, so 15 o clock will be 21, so its 2 hours ago.
<xxxxx1> bye all!
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-15
* Fujitsu wards off the impending xmms doom.
<luisbg> anyone around?
* poningru hugs \sh_away 
<poningru> wine just allowed me to have my work box be entirely ubuntu
<poningru> and hence raided up the wazzooo
<joejaxx> LaserJock: hello :)
<luisbg> hey LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi guys
<ScottK> Heya LaserJock
<luisbg> hey jordan, got a question, do you know why xmms isn't in universe?
<crimsun> luisbg: keescook just sent an email to -devel about that.
<LaserJock> hi crimsun 
<LaserJock> hi ScottK 
<crimsun> luisbg: essentially, there are two source packages that build-depend on a package provided by xmms source.
* keescook nods
<luisbg> crimsun, yeap, you replied just after me ;)
<luisbg> crimsun, aha
<crimsun> oh excellent, evolution now refuses to start after composing that reply.
<keescook> the two items I sent in that email, "flac" and "kdeutils" are both in main, so their build-deps must be too
* crimsun hugs gutsy
<keescook> :)
<luisbg> crimsun, lol
<luisbg> keescook, wanna take charge of pushing xmms to universe?
<crimsun> I don't know if even elmo is still using xmms.
<keescook> luisbg: yeah, I've actually got the flac and kdeutils changes ready to upload, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't being dumb.  :)
<keescook> hehe
<crimsun> last I checked, he was basically the only person on staff using it, but I could have been smoking crack.
<luisbg> crimsun, I use xmms
<luisbg> and have a reason for it
<LaserJock> man, I have a lot of email to catch up on :(
<crimsun> luisbg: being?
<luisbg> crimsun, rythmbox and exaile are great to listen to great databases of cd's, but xmms does a better trick to just listen to a few singles
<crimsun> luisbg: you could use audacious
<crimsun> luisbg: I use mplayer-nox for that, but YMMV.
<luisbg> I usually listen to my singles in xmms, and test the downloaded music (yeah I know, but in spain is legal) to check if it sounds good there
<crimsun> err, mplayer-nogui
<keescook> luisbg: yeah, I still using xmms too.  I'm mostly worried about xmms users that listen to flac files, as my changes would break them.
<LaserJock> I use totem for single songs :/
<luisbg> LaserJock, you are an adventurous guy
<LaserJock> it works
<luisbg> it does work but it's kinda heavy for that task
<crimsun> keescook: one could always split out xmms-flac into a separate source package.
<LaserJock> luisbg:  well, it's installed by default
<luisbg> LaserJock, true
<crimsun> keescook: build-dep on flac source in it and build the plugin.  I think that's why xen stuff does.
<crimsun> s/why/what/
<Amaranth> hrm
<crimsun> well, at least  /did/  back in feisty.
<Amaranth> is there a way in a .install file to say "every file from this dir except foo"?
<keescook> crimsun: oh! what would that look like?  (er, rather, would that have to go through source NEW, and it would share the flac orig.tar.gz?)
<Lamego> Amaranth, you could use dh_install -X
<Lamego> dh_install -Xfile source dest
<crimsun> keescook: yes, it'd have to go through source NEW, but you wouldn't have to bundle flac's orig.tar.gz in it.  You'd use something similar to what feisty's xen stuff in universe does with linux-*)
<Amaranth> Lamego: I don't think that'll work
<Lamego> why not ?
<luisbg> gotta go guys!
<luisbg> =)
<luisbg> ttyl
<Amaranth> Lamego: Well the package I'm poking only calls dh_install once...
<Lamego> ah :(
<Lamego> you could keep that particular dir out of the .install
<Lamego> and call it on debian/rules
<Amaranth> i was hoping glob would do some magic
<Amaranth> but that works too
<orion2012> I keep making a comment on REVU and then refreshing the page, forgetting to clear the GET data... Sorry for spamming the list.
<Amaranth> Lamego: what i'm really trying to do is say "install everything but foo in -bar package and put foo in -foo package"
<crimsun> debian/-foo.install with dh_install -p-bar -Xfoo  in debian/rules ?
<nixternal> wo0t! just uploaded krename into Debian's kde-extras!!
<nixternal> StevenK: on our way now. I will get the package updated in Debian, and then just request a synch :)
<LaserJock> hi nixternal 
<LaserJock> long time, no see
<joejaxx> hello keescook ! :)
<keescook> hiya joejaxx !  You made it home okay, I see?  :)
<joejaxx> yeap :)
<superm1> hey keescook 
<superm1> i just got back in an hr or so ago
<superm1> i heard you ponged
<keescook> superm1: :)  yeah, I'm back in the right timezone again.  :)
<superm1> ah vg. how did UDS go?
<DarkSun88> When I make the debdiff bitween old.dsc and new.dsc of package, the entry debian/control and the the changes there aren't.
<DarkSun88> Why?
<DarkSun88> I just edited the changes in debian/control and I just compiled it, but there aren't the changes of debian/control in debdiff.
<crimsun> DarkSun88: what source package?
<DarkSun88> I just tried with Colorblind and Xgalag
<DarkSun88> s/Xgalag/Xgalaga
<crimsun> can you post your modified source package?
<DarkSun88> diff.gz or debdiff?
<crimsun> either
<DarkSun88> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20894/
<racarr>  /win goto 12
<racarr> Mrgh.
<DarkSun88> This is the debdiff of package
<crimsun> that debdiff doesn't contain any changes to files other than debian/changelog
<crimsun> did you actually change the merged source package?
<DarkSun88> This is the problem :)
<crimsun> if you ran debdiff, there are no changes, which means you either didn't debdiff the correct source packages, or you didn't actually apply the changes to the correct source dir.
<DarkSun88> I just applied the changes to debian/control of Debian
<crimsun> I'll just walk through the merge process with you.
<crimsun> first, start with pristine source packages from gutsy and sid
<DarkSun88> Right
<crimsun> (using colorblind)
<crimsun> now, are you using MoM or DaD or manual?
<DarkSun88> Manual
<crimsun> ok, so I presume you're going to fakesync then apply the changelog diff?
<DarkSun88> Yes
<DarkSun88> crimsun: I just compiled it and it's ok, all right.
<crimsun> ok, so you straightened it out?
<DarkSun88> I don't understand
<crimsun> DarkSun88: I interpreted your statement above as "everything's ok"
<DarkSun88> Yep.
<DarkSun88> The merge it's ok, the problem is the mistake entries in debdiff of debian/control.
<crimsun> you don't need them, because it's a fakesync.
<crimsun> the only difference between the Ubuntu and Debian source packages will be debian/changelog entries.
<crimsun> that doesn't require you to apply DebianMaintainerField
<DarkSun88> So, it is not merge?
<crimsun> no, it's not a merge.  It's called a fakesync.
<ajmitch> hi
<crimsun> technically you will be apply Debian's diff.gz directly to a pristine, extracted Ubuntu orig.tar.gz
<crimsun> applying ^
<crimsun> hi ajmitch 
<DarkSun88> ajmitch: Hi
<DarkSun88> crimsun: Ok, but Xgalaga package? It's a merge.
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
<DarkSun88> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20899/
<DarkSun88> This is debdiff of package.
<crimsun> DarkSun88: correct, so you'll need to adhere to DebianMaintainerField, update debian/changelog, then respin the debdiff.
<DarkSun88> The debian/changelog it's ok.
<crimsun> no it's not.  You need to explicitly state that you changed debian/control to adhere to DebianMaintainerField.
<DarkSun88> I have to remove "    - Update maintainer in field debian/control"
<DarkSun88> Right?
<crimsun> oh, you're talking about colorblind now?
<DarkSun88> Xgalaga
<crimsun> oh, no, that's fine.
<crimsun> you can leave that alone.
<crimsun> I scan for explicit filenames, so I overlooked it.  Sorry.
<crimsun> you do need to fix debian/control, though.
<DarkSun88> Do you see debian/control of Xgalaga?
<DarkSun88> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20902/
<crimsun> right, but note it's not in the Debian source package.
<crimsun> thus, when you debdiff against sid's package, you must have that hunk in the debdiff
<DarkSun88> Looking it
<DarkSun88> The changes are in debian/control of Sid
<crimsun> they absolutely are not.
<crimsun> well, let me check -43
<crimsun> -42 definitely doesn't
<crimsun> nope, definitely not in -43
<crimsun> +Maintainer: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>
<crimsun> http://incoming.debian.org/xgalaga_2.0.34-43.diff.gz
<DarkSun88> I just used mdt to take source package of Xgalaga from Sid
<crimsun> just look at the actual source package from Sid or incoming
<DarkSun88> packages.debian.org has -42
<azeem> packages.d.o is always outdated by a day or so
<crimsun> use PTS to read the ACCEPT, then check the appropriate place.
<crimsun> in this case, -43 was accepted after dinstall, so you need to look in incoming
<DarkSun88> Ok
<DarkSun88> crimsun: I try to make the debdiff bitween -43 and 43ubuntu1.
<crimsun> DarkSun88: ok.
<DarkSun88> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20910/
<DarkSun88> crimsun: Please, check it
<DarkSun88> Argh
<DarkSun88> It's mistake.
<crimsun> right, missing the debian/rules hunk
<DarkSun88> Right. :)
<DarkSun88> Check it now
<DarkSun88> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20911/
<crimsun> yep, looks sane.
<DarkSun88> Upload the debdiff in LP?
<crimsun> yes.
<crimsun> do you have a bug #?
<crimsun> I'll upload it now since I've already looked.
<DarkSun88> No, I open it
<crimsun> don't bother now :)
<crimsun> but in the future, yes, please open an LP bug and attach the debdiff
<DarkSun88> Ok.
<crimsun> (you should have received the accept.)
<crimsun> so -
<crimsun> anyone want to trawl through https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+subscribedbugs with me?
* TheMuso is updating his chroots/pbuilders, and will join crimsun.
<crimsun> thanks
<TheMuso> crimsun: You starting anywhere in particular?
<crimsun> I'll start from 76-150 (last page) and work backword, so I'm starting with the last one listed
<crimsun> backward ^
<TheMuso> righto
<TheMuso> ooo lovely.
<TheMuso> A diff embedded in a bug report.
<TheMuso> this is going to be fun.
* TheMuso thinks we shouldn't recommend the use of requestsponsor any more, until attachments can be done.
<TheMuso> Luckily, I have the email. I'll scrape from that.
<leonel> crimsun: TheMuso ScottK ..  Accepted:
<leonel>  OK: squirrelmail_1.4.9a-1ubuntu0.1.dsc
<leonel>      -> Component: universe Section: web
<leonel>  OK: squirrelmail_1.4.9a-1ubuntu0.1.diff.gz
<leonel>  \o/  Whooo hoo !!  
<leonel> thanks ...
<VoX> just wondering if/when support for the Logitech G15 LCD keyboard is going to be included?
<nixternal> LaserJock: wasabi homer!
<LaserJock> watchin' the simpsons, trying to catch up on email
<Lathiat> VoX: are there any open source tools for it?
<VoX> yeah
<Lathiat> url?
* TheMuso does 114043
<Lathiat> (just curious I wasn't going  to buy one cus I didn't think itd work on linux)
<VoX> Lathiat: http://g15daemon.sourceforge.net/
<VoX> i've been using it for about a year or so
<Lathiat> nifty
<Lathiat> i want one now :P
<VoX> the basic keyboard and volume control work natively
<VoX> but the extra keys and lcd require g15daemon
<VoX> just figured it's something that would be an awesome add-on for ubuntu
<hendrixski> hey, another newbie question... do most MOTU package for a favorite language, or is it common for one to package apps in several languages? lke java AND python versus... just C++???
<TheMuso> hendrixski: We package whatever needs packaging, regardless of language.
<hendrixski> TheMuso, that's hardcore ... does packaging differ much between languages?
<TheMuso> hendrixski: No.
<VoX> Lathiat: if i was smart enough, i'd try to create a package for submission
<jmg> VoX: you are smart enough
<leonel> VoX: go for it 
<VoX> hmm
<VoX> im not sure how to work out dependancies
<hendrixski> TheMuso, that's good news.  so if I just wrote my first hello world program in python, I'd be able to look to the C++ hello world example on the repo's?
<TheMuso> hendrixski: Unfortunately, python is a special case. Depends on how big and advanced the python program is.
<hendrixski> TheMuso, oh.  I was reading over the debian python policy earlier, and couldn't make heads or tails of it.. that may explain why...  What makes it a special case?
<TheMuso> hendrixski: Exactly what you pointed out. The python policy.
<TheMuso> As far as I understand things anyway.
<hendrixski> oh.  lol
<ScottK> leonel: No, Thank you for contributing.
<hendrixski> TheMuso, I heard on lugradio that Ubuntu is really pushing for more development in python.  They didn't say why.
<leonel> ScottK:  no ??
<ScottK> leonel: How are the Dapper/Edgy updates coming?
<TheMuso> Python has been a popular choice ever since Ubuntu'
<TheMuso> Python has been a popular choice ever since Ubuntu's fir strelease.
<ScottK> leonel: No, you don't have to thank me.  I thank you for contributing.
<leonel> ScottK: the snowball is a little  big but  working 
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> leonel: Earlier today I warned keescook to expect bigger changes for Dapper/Edgy becase of the other open issues.
<leonel> ScottK: yes  I need to thank all the help from all of you     really   thanks
<persia> hendrixski: python is considered the preferred language for new components of Ubuntu, but contributions in any language are welcome, and there is no directive to port existing working applications to python.
<leonel> ScottK:  yes  dapper  is  a little big  bug  the little time I had  to work this weekend  and today    was for edgy  
<ScottK> leonel: You're welcome.  I lot of people helped me when I first showed up here.  I'm glad to pay it forward.
<leonel> ScottK:   I'm  training   for  dapper  :)  
<hendrixski> persia, ah.  So it's suggested for use prototyping?
<leonel> but the first  step was done
<ScottK> Yes.  Thanks to you.
<leonel> now   the  bug report  who closes it ?
<leonel> i mean  for  feisty only 
<ScottK> leonel: Once the Feisty package is built for all archs it needs to build for, you mark it fix released for the Feisty task.
<kdub432_> hey guys, if i'm interested in helping out the repos, how do i get involved? 
<ScottK> kdub432_: Show up here and start working.
<leonel> ScottK:  ok  
<ScottK> kdub432_: Bug fixing Universe packages is a great way to get involved.
<TheMuso> kdub432_: You read the wiki pages? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<leonel> kdub432_: yes  here are  great  people  to help  you get the work done 
<TheMuso> !packagingguide | kdub432_ 
<ubotu> kdub432_: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<kdub432_> not yet... i'm going to now....
<kdub432_> alright thanks!
<hendrixski> persia, TheMuso,  (if my questions aren't getting annoying yet).. is it because of preferred language status that it has it's own python policy?
<TheMuso> hendrixski: No, its because there needs to be a way to handle several versions of python on one system.
<TheMuso> One can have 2,4 and 2.5 on the same system, and the package needs to be installed/built to work with them both.
<ScottK> The Python policy comes from Debian and it's not particularly preferred there.
<TheMuso> s/24/2.4/
<ScottK> leonel: It's built so you can mark it fix released: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squirrelmail/2:1.4.9a-1ubuntu0.1
<hendrixski> TheMuso, ah.  OK, so the same sorts of things with versions don't happen in other languages, right?  like Java, it's always in the latest version
<TheMuso> hendrixski: Can't comment on java.
<ScottK> IIRC, Perl has a policy too, for similar reasons.
<hendrixski> ScottK, I C
<TheMuso> persia: Is there a reason why the hydrogen FTBFS bug is still open?
<TheMuso> persia: Marked as in progress currently.
<hendrixski> ScottK, does a separate debian policy also imply separate packaging tools?  for example, I heard there used to be a dh_python, but it's depricated
<TheMuso> I saw your comment about it being successfully built.
<ScottK> hendrixski: The best way is to pick an example package and look at it.
<ScottK> If you are packaging something that properly uses Python distutils, for example, making a Debian package is dead simple.  See the pyyaml source package for an example of that.
<hendrixski> ScottK, right, I saw the distutils when I was looking at democracyplayers debian/rules
<ScottK> hendrixski: IME (which is not huge) every language has it's subtleties that impact how it's packaged to some degree, but I know no C at all, but do packaging related work on C/C++ packcages all the time.
<ScottK> hendrixski: For Python, distutils is the standard way to package stuff and so the Debian specific tools naturally leverage off of that.
<hendrixski> ScottK, cool.  That's very inspiring..... Here I was thinking I'd have to learn a lot of programming languages :)
<ScottK> Knowing some shell scripting is very helpful.  If you don't now, you'll pick it up.
<hendrixski> the shell scripting is for writing debian/rules files right?
<ScottK> The good news is that here people are very open to people with no experience that want to learn and help out.
<ScottK> hendrixski: Sometimes.  It comes up for me more with dealing with init scripts and such (but I do little GUI related packaging, most of my stuff is server related).
<crimsun> We have sharp, pointy teeth, however.  And new blood tastes  /good/  .
* hendrixski hides from crimsun 
<crimsun> Don't worry, I'm new, too.
<ScottK> He also lies.
<hendrixski> lol
<crimsun> Have I mentioned that people love blowing my cover?
<TheMuso> crimsun: WHere are you up to?
* TheMuso is just eyeballing the dmraid bug.
<hendrixski> ScottK, the init scripts what exactly, if it's not too dumb of a question?  (is coming from a java plugin developer on windows background)
<hendrixski> oops, that came out wrong
* hendrixski is coming from a java plugin developer on windows background
<ScottK> hendrixski: For stuff that's automatically started by the system and runs all the time.
<ScottK> hendrixski: Look in etc/init.d for examples on your system.
<hendrixski> ScottK, like daemons?
<ScottK> Yes
* ajmitch wonders if he should go & get a decent amount of caffeine
<hendrixski> ScottK, ooh.. so if I wanted my application on my system to start up automatically, I write a script for it in /etc/init.d ?
<hendrixski> assuming I learn shell scripting
<ScottK> It's that or a decent amount of alcohol (the plan I'm currently on) and assuming you're back in Australia, caffeine is probably a better plan.
<TheMuso> hendrixski: Theres a little more to it than that.
<hendrixski> TheMuso, :-( aaawwww   had my hopes up for a second
<TheMuso> You have to then tell the system to run the script at startup
<TheMuso> It helps to know how Ubuntu starts up.
<jmg> and it changed with upstart right?
<hendrixski> TheMuso, is there a good guide about how that works? 
<hendrixski> how ubuntu starts up that is
<TheMuso> hendrixski: Not that I know of.
<hendrixski> oh
<ScottK> jmg: Yes and no, you can still use sys v init's too.
<hendrixski> it's not too late at night to ask for a 3 or 4 line crash course about it, is it?
* hendrixski is in NY, but doesn't know if it's getting late for TheMuso as well
<TheMuso> hendrixski: No. Its actually the middle of the day where I am.
<ranf> hi
<TheMuso> hendrixski: Linux uses what are known as runlevels. Different runlevels start and stop different programs, according to what has been set.
<TheMuso> Basically, there are directories in /etc that hold symbolic links to the /etc/init.d scripts to start/stop them, depending on what runleve is chosen.
<TheMuso> hendrixski: Have a look in /etc/rc2.d for example. Thats runlevel 2, and the links in there, point to what needs to be started.
<crimsun> TheMuso: I'm on 114277
<TheMuso> In the future, at least for Ubuntu, this is all likely to chance hwever.
<crimsun> and this wifi connection is horrible
<hendrixski> TheMuso, I see a few rc# folder in /etc/   so each of those is a run level?
<ranf> bug #114277
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114277 in kamefu "[Sync Request]  sync kamefu 0.1.1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114277
<ajmitch> crimsun: so are there any merges left for us slow people to look at? 
<crimsun> ajmitch: tons
<crimsun> ajmitch: I'm working from 150 backward (the last page of u-u-s subscribed bugs)
* TheMuso goes on an lsr package update break.
<jmg> groan
<hendrixski> TheMuso, oooh, and there's a readme in each rc# folder ...
<hendrixski> oh.... but they're all the same readme :-(
<ScottK> hendrixski: Run levels is a topic that Google has a lot to say about, FYI.
<hendrixski> ScottK, good call
* hendrixski jots down a note to look up run levels
<hendrixski> ScottK, sorry, didn't mean to spam with questions.  Just it's all so new and interesting.  :-)
<ScottK> hendrixski: Not a problem at all.  It was just a point of information.
<ScottK> Run levels is something that's pretty common across Linux distros.
<ScottK> hendrixski: If you are a Java person, then a good way to get started is find bugs reported against programs written in Java, figure out how to fix them, and then ask help here on packaging the fix.
<ranf> What do I do with this: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5131  File a sync bug and archive?
<hendrixski> ScottK, Ok.  I can find those bugs reported in launchpad. right?  
<ScottK> hendrixski: Yes.
<ScottK> ranf: Don't think you need the sync bug.  Doesn't it arrive automagically?
* hendrixski jots down another thing onto the TODO list
<TheMuso> ScottK: If it doesn't have ubuntu in the version, yes it should.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Thanks.
<ranf> ScottK, if I knew I hadn't asked :-)
* ScottK goes back to writing actual code.
* hendrixski is overwhelmed, and goes to bed 
<hendrixski> thanks ScottK and TheMuso 
<ScottK> hendrixski: Digest it and come back for more.
<hendrixski> ScottK, you bet I will 
* ScottK is overwhelmed and goes for more Scotch...
<TheMuso> lol
<TheMuso> crimsun: Oh ok. I'll remember to mark as wishlist in the future.
* persia suggests unsubscribing U-U-S from bugs that are not yet ready for upload.
<TheMuso> persia: The bug author may not now this however, unless we explicitly tell them.
<TheMuso> I'm not sure thats a good idea.
<ScottK> Unless you are a member of the team, you can't unsubscribe the team.
<ajmitch> I wonder if we can unsubscribe all those uus bugs that are fixed in ubuntu but not in debian
<persia> TheMuso: Perhaps, but I've had a few where the patch was rejected as needing more work, or where someone other than the author excitedly subscribed people before it was ready, and non-UUS (as most UUS bug authors are) cannot unsubscribe.  Perhaps also changing the status field to "Needs Info", and adding a comment such as "Unbsubscribing U-U-S because <reason>.  Please resubscribe when UUS action is again required" would work?
<TheMuso> bbl, lunch.
<TheMuso> persia: I'd suggest to put it on the agenda of the next MOTU meeting.
<TheMuso> anyways, lunch.
<ajmitch> once we manage to have another meeting
<persia> ajmitch: I think that is a very good idea.  It makes the UUS workflow a little easier, and the Debian status will update automaticalls as the BTS processes the bug.
<ajmitch> and they just get in the way at the moment
<persia> TheMuso: That's a good idea.  When I believe I can attend an upcoming MOTU meeting, I'll add that to the agenda.
* ScottK ponders Python boolean logic....
* ajmitch wonders how long it'll be before persia is MOTU (and ScottK, also)
<jmg> i imagine not very long
<ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.  
<ajmitch> still waiting for ScottK to apply
<LaserJock> me too
* ScottK will apply if MOTUs think he's ready.  
<ajmitch> yay, I can unsubscribe u-u-s from a bunch of these bugs
<ajmitch> though there are a few that have open ubuntu tasks
<leonel> good night motus  got to go
<nixternal> anyone know how to get an updated tarball into Debian? i.e., krename? I have uploaded the debian/ directory to pkg-kde debian svn already
<ajmitch> nixternal: get a willing sponsor, generally someone from that team
<nixternal> k, need to wait for them all to wake up then
<ScottK> nixternal: mentors has worked well for me (with the Python Modules Team)
<ScottK> nixternal: IME it server a purpose roughly equivalent to REVU here.
<nixternal> ahh, OK, I will take a look at that then
<persia> Does anyone happen to have any anecdotal knowledge about how the wxwidgets2.6-2.6.3.2.1 original source tarball was created?  Upstream has asked me to test the unicode GECOS against 2.6.4, and I'm having great difficulty.
<ScottK> ajmitch: PM?
<crimsun> persia: Ron rolls tarballs as the spirit moves him.
<ajmitch> ScottK: yes?
<persia> crimsun: Ah.  I've been working with Vadim.  Perhaps I need to expand my upstream contacts :)  Thanks.
<nixternal> ok ScottK, uploaded to mentors ;)
<ScottK> nixternal: With Debian Python Modules Team, I then mention it on their IRC channel and usually get an upload pretty quickly (that or the DD's argue about if my package is right for a while first).
<nixternal> roger #debian-qt-kde it is then
<ScottK> Most recently today in fact.
<ScottK> nixternal: After I got my first Python package accepted into Debian via the Python Modules Team, I wrote: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam and linked it from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian.  You might want to consider something similar for hte qt-kde team after you are finished...
<ScottK> hte/the
<nixternal> oh rock on, most definitely
<nixternal> except the 2nd wiki link is broke ;)
<ScottK> hmmm
<ScottK> nixternal: Check and see if your IRC client attached the period at the end of the sentence to the link.  It works here.
<nixternal> it did
<nixternal> I was just pokin' fun at ya
<ScottK> OK
<nixternal> gotta love irssi
<ScottK> Or not.
<nixternal> it will grab everything, mixed with yakuake
<ajmitch> blame your terminal
<crimsun> it's really because Rich is using Vista.
<ajmitch> gnome-terminal sensibly stripped the . 
<ajmitch> ah, a traitor
<ScottK> Konversation strips it just fine too.
<nixternal> damn you crimsun!
* nixternal screenshots to prove you wrong!
<nixternal> muhehehe
<nixternal> Host 'heavymetal', running Linux 2.6.20-15-server - Cpu0: Pentium III 797 MHz; Up: 4d+10:11; Users: 1; Load: 0.00; Free: [Mem: 7/376 Mio]  [Swap: 831/831 Mio]  [/: 15300/18415 Mio] ; Vpenis: 27.2 cm;
<nixternal> well, that doesn't mean anything seeing as I am ssh'd into my server, could be using putty on vista
<ajmitch> with a hostname like that, he must be a jono fanboy
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> that is a Sammy Hagar song
<nixternal> all of my computers are named after a Sammy Hagar song
<ajmitch> I'm surprised they let jono through airport security, being so metal
<nixternal> CaboWabo, HeavyMetal, MasTequila, and ShakaDoobie
<ScottK> Good night all.
<persia> good night ScottK
<persia> Blah!  A client called, and now I can't attend the CC to become a member :(
<StevenK> persia: Reschedule the client. :-P
<persia> StevenK: Unfortunately, I'm between engagements right now (which is why I have time here), and so should really take the meeting, given that it will result in 100-150 hours of work.
<StevenK> persia: Wonderful. :-/
<persia> StevenK: Yeah.  I had hoped to have all of May free, and only needed one more day...
<cjsoftuk_> Anyone here know much about debugging ncpfs' kernel module?
<persia> Oh well, next council meeting is in two weeks :)
<cjsoftuk_> Or am I in the wrong place.
<jmg> w00000t! my shipits arrived
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<ajmitch> jmg: congrats, send some down to me
<jmg> ajmitch: i only have 3
<ajmitch> no point me asking then
<ajmitch> since I've got 2 
* StevenK is waiting for his CDs.
* ajmitch hasn't ordered from shipit yet
<ranf> Is there some sort of "collectors box"? I only have 4.10 and 5.10. I'd like all ever released.
<Flannel> ranf: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/
<Flannel> Oh, you mean the shipit ones
* minghua would like to get a "collector's box" as well :-)
<ranf> Flannel, yes
<StevenK> I have at least one CD from each release since 5.10. But I'm still waiting for 7.04
<persia> Are the shipit CDs silkscreened?  If so, does anyone know where to find the images?
<dholbach> good morning
<StevenK> persia: How do you tell? :-)
<persia> StevenK: Is the CD a dull metallic color, or is there more variation, producing an apparent image?
<StevenK> persia: It's a bright red with a white section.
<ajmitch> dholbach!\
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<dholbach> good good - how are you?
<ajmitch> alright, still slightly tired :)
<StevenK> persia: http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciak/187634641/
<dholbach> me too
<persia> StevenK: Then either it's silkscreened, or printed using another system.  Is the image for the red and white pattern available somewhere?
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.
* ajmitch is just heading out to get some dinner now
<StevenK> ajmitch: How were your flights?
<ajmitch> long
<ajmitch> boring
<StevenK> Heh
* ajmitch hungry, back in 30 min
<dholbach> persia: it will not be necessary for you to attend a CC meeting to become a member. I just informed the TB of the MC's decision - once you're in ubuntu-dev you'll be a ubuntumember as well
<StevenK> I think I like this new process better.
* StevenK had to become a member, contribute more, and then apply for -dev.
<dholbach> can somebody explain me, what we had the motumergers team for and if it is still needed?
<StevenK> dholbach: I can't even recall one.
<dholbach> ok
<crimsun> dholbach: obviated by ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<dholbach> I'll ask the launchpad-eros to get it removed
<persia> dholbach: Thanks!  That simplifies things :)
<crimsun> luke and I have been squashing u-u-s tonight
<dholbach> you guys are awesome
* dholbach hugs crimsun and TheMuso
<crimsun> nah, I just drink coffee and eat jelly beans
<TheMuso> crimsun: Heh you've done mroe tha me. Got called away too many times.
<TheMuso> Will probably do more later however.
<dholbach> I think I'd pay a lot of beers at a conference of choice for somebody who cleans up the 'merging' documentation on the wiki
<TheMuso> I am no doc writer, but I'll have a look.
<dholbach> there's Merging, Merging-And-Syncing, there's MOTU/Merging and maybe some others I forgot
<StevenK> But merging and syncing is not MOTU specific.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Very true.
<dholbach> I removed myself from the MOTU/Mentors page
<dholbach> I get new maily from hopefuls signing up for mentoring daily now
<dholbach> mails
<StevenK> dholbach: MOTU/Mentors should also be reorganized so that two or more people don't get swamped.
<dholbach> yes
<StevenK> I should probably attend the next MOTU meeting.
<dholbach> we talked about that at UDS
<StevenK> Yes, well. I wasn't there.
<dholbach> I'll try to organize our thoughts and a write a process proposal
<StevenK> dholbach: Will you throw the proposal to the mailing list, or raise it at the next meeting?
<dholbach> mailing list
<dholbach> nobody replied on ma motu meeting post
<persia> Just FYI, for anyone interested, the current plan is for Lenny to ship with wxwidgets2.8, but neither wxwindows2.4 nor wxwidgets2.6.
<StevenK> Good.
<BugMaN> hi all
<crimsun> persia: did anyone upload 111832?
* persia looks
<persia> crimsun: Not the newest revision.
<persia> s/est rev/est SRU rev/
<crimsun> ok.
<lionel> StevenK: thanks you rock :)
<StevenK> lionel: No problem. :-)
<persia> crimsun: Thank you.
<jekil> hello
<crimsun> persia: are there other issues with http://librarian.launchpad.net/7591902/M35375.wx26.debdiff ?
<persia> crimsun: Aside from the fact that I should know better than to use vi to create patches :)  Not really.  I'm corresponding with Ron and Vadim about it, but it works for me, and definitely fixes the problem.  There's no ABI change, and roughtly the same patch has been in Ubuntu 2.8 for a few months (incuding the 7.04 release) without reports of significant breakage.
* persia creates a patch with patch and attaches it to the bug.
<StevenK> persia: Hopefully, you create one with diff?
<crimsun> nah, persia's hardcore.
<crimsun> I think that's why MC said yay to the application.
<crimsun> ;)
<StevenK> Heh
<persia> StevenK: Ah, right, but patch -r can be fun.  In this case, I think I7ll even use debdiff, just to save the effort.
<StevenK> lionel: libapache-mod-jk has built on everything bar ia64.
<lionel> hum... strange
<StevenK> lionel: Where ia64 is pending, not failed. :-)
<lionel> ah
<lionel> it built last time on ia64
<lionel> it is building now
<StevenK> Ah, yes.
<TheMuso> persia: It will be great to have you with us.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.
* StevenK is reminded of, "Join us" a'la zombies.
* TheMuso also believes ScottK is more than ready for MOTU/
* ajmitch isn't ready for MOTU at the moment
<StevenK> TheMuso: What about me, am I ready? :-P
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Lies!
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I may make some interesting mistakes on packages today
<crimsun> I don't think I'm ready either, and my membership expires in three days!
<StevenK> Hah
<TheMuso> Well since the two gods of MOTU aren't ready, I'm not ready. :p
<TheMuso> Or should I say the three gods of MOTU.
<ajmitch> crimsun: your core-dev membership doesn't though
<ajmitch> so you'll be only uploading to main :)
<StevenK> -core-dev is a member of -dev.
* ajmitch knows that
<persia> crimsun: Patch up.  By the way, this one doesn't apply cleanly either.  Something about it being a native package, I think.
<StevenK> Hurrah, it built everywhere.
<lionel> \o/
<TheMuso> bbl dinner
<StevenK> Therefore, I win.
* persia congratulates StevenK on another successful game of buildd.
<crimsun> neat.  I think we just bludgeoned through the u-u-s merge/sync queue.
<ajmitch> crimsun: impressive
<persia> Wow!  Now it's just bugfixes, pending builds/syncs, and Debian.
<ajmitch> only a few of the debian ones are fixed in ubuntu
* ajmitch got rid of a couple of those earlier
<Hobbsee> congratulations, persia!
* Treenaks wants a newerer kernel, so powertop does usefull things
<Treenaks> -l
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks, but it's early yet.  I have to wait for TB to become drunk with power and upload everything to meet my selfish goals.
<crimsun> Treenaks: well, Amit is aboard (kinda), which will be very useful for that.
<Treenaks> crimsun: cool :)
<Hobbsee> persia: hehe
<crimsun> persia's taking over, since my membership is expiring  :)
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> dream on, crimsun 
<persia> crimsun: I can't do that.  I don't understand ALSA.
<crimsun> that's ok, no one really does
<crimsun> oh, right.  Need to send those upstream.
<geser> persia: I'd guess that the aqsis build failures are another incarnation of bug #87077 as it builds fine on a pbuilder (and xmms2 uses also scons)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87077 in launchpad-buildd "The build of xmms2 fails because of HASH(0x82db558)="" in the environment" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87077
<persia> geser: Thanks for the pointer.  I'll watch that too.  I've had no problems with aqsis locally, and upstream has been pestering me to move to 1.2.0, so I'd be glad to find a solution.
<geser> persia: that's only a guess, you would need to upload a version which tells you why it fails (debugging on the buildds)
<geser> I'm waiting on infinity to fix this bug
<persia> geser: I'll wait until next week to upload the next version :)  I was thinking of just forcing TRUE for scons TIFF search, as the Build-Depends guarantees it, if all else fails.
<Tonio_> hey
<crimsun> hullo.
<persia> Does anyone use eCos?  Any opinions on using a CVS snapshot vs. a three year old release?
<crimsun> it's the beginning of the devel cycle.  Churn is expected.  Live dangerously!
<ajmitch> the issues just come when you're using that same cvs snapshot at release time
<crimsun> it would be wise, I think, to correspond with upstream about an ETA for the next stable release.
<persia> crimsun: Right.  OK.  Somehow I have the feeling that my wx24 odyssey will end up with me maintaining CVS snapshots of several orphaned packages...
<persia> ajmitch: Anything that still depends on wx2.4 is generally not very active upstream.  I don't anticipate any releases prior to gutsy, even if all my patches are accepted upstream.  freqtweak hasn't seen deevlopment activity for a couple years, eCos tracks moving embedded targets, and releases aren't really that useful, and survex has been aorking ont he next version for a while, with progress, but not dates or anything.
<ajmitch> persia: wx2.4? ugh, get rid of it :)
<persia> ajmitch: That's the idea.  nixternal and I have been working on it.  There are still two packages unclaimed.  Want one?
<ajmitch> which ones?
* ajmitch bets that one of them is already mine
<persia> ajmitch: newpki-client and ctsim.
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> I *know* there are other packages using wx2.4
<persia> ajmitch: About which one were you thinking?  I may have already claimed it.
<ajmitch> gnue-designer & gnue-forms
<ajmitch> g-d has known problems with wx 2.6 still
<persia> ajmitch: Ah.  I appear to have missed all the python-wxgtk2.4 dependencies when making my list.  Perhaps it's not as short as I thought.
<ajmitch> there are few
<ajmitch> I'm going to strip down & recreate the gnue-* packaging this week anyway
<persia> ajmitch: Looks like three of them to me: if you take care of gnue-*, that only leaves openrpg (assuming that meta-ul-foo isn't really that relevant at this point).  I'll add them to my tracking page.
<geser> persia: meta-ul is only a meta-package which needs only the deps updated
<persia> Now that three people are working on the wx2.4 elimination effort, could someone with wiki skills suggest how I could move the tracking page from my private namespace to the MOTU namespace cleanly?
<ajmitch> rename the page?
* ajmitch doesn't do much wiki magic
<persia> geser: UnitedLinux hasn't released anything since 2003.  I don't think we can update the depends in good faith, as it will no longer represent UL properly.  I'm tempted to drop, although I'll probably wait until they reach unmetdeps.
<ajmitch> unitedlinux is a bit of a joke, I think
<geser> persia: the deps have been updated in the past already to resolve some unmet deps, one change more won't make a difference :)
<persia> geser: I guess.  I'm more tempted to drop old packages than to keep them around, unless they are useful to someone.
<persia> ajmitch: Renaming appears to have done the trick.  Thanks.
<geser> I also thought about to request the removal of meta-ul
<Hobbsee> geser: the more packages you remove, the less bugs.
<Hobbsee> this is good.
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: less is more ;_)
<Hobbsee> heh
<persia> geser: They appear to currently be your packages.  I'd concur if you wanted to drop, but I won't stop you from keeping them updated if you really want :)
<dholbach> is DaD fixed now?
<dholbach> are people still using it?
<dholbach> does it still spit out 0 line diffs?
<persia> I like DaD's comment feature - it's really good for encouraging / blocking MOTU-Hopefuls, but have never used the internals - they didn't seem right for the packages I merged.
<dholbach> HRM
<dholbach> I'm really unhappy about this
<persia> Hobbsee: Whatever happened to MOTU/Transitions?
<Hobbsee> persia: it got deleted.
<Hobbsee> persia: were we still using it?
<dholbach> I'll mail ubuntu-motu about it
<persia> Hobbsee: Why?  Where are we supposed to track transitions?
<Hobbsee> didnt know that we actually were.  come to think of it, there's another wiki page somewhere that does too.
<Hobbsee> no idea where it is, though
<Hobbsee> persia: based on the fact that it was out of date, and hadnt been modified in a while, i thought we werent using it
<persia> I liked that page, as it 1) listed easy stuff to work on, and 2) helped keep track of initiatives.  There hasn't been as many transitions lately as there were in the past, but I'd like to link to MOTU/wx24.Transitin from there.
<Hobbsee> you can probably resurrect it, and link to it from the main page, if you like
<persia> s/wx2.4Transitin/wx2.4Migration/
<ajmitch> or link to it from MOTU/TODO
<persia> ajmitch: That's probably a better place, as it consolidates everything, not just transitions.  Thanks.
<tepsipakki> has anyone seen Mez lately?
<tepsipakki> hi, btw
<ajmitch> hey tepsipakki 
<tepsipakki> hey ajmitch 
<ajmitch> tepsipakki: he was online a few days ago
<tepsipakki> ok, I asked him aboud iFolder
<tepsipakki> about
<tepsipakki> by mail
<tepsipakki> it needs packaging and he has done something about it (and owns ifolder-dev team)
<ajmitch> yes, and popey has even started looking at it recently
<tepsipakki> cool
<tepsipakki> novell released 3.6 some time ago, but so far no source available other than opensuse srpm's
<ajmitch> not unusual
<popey> i noted a link pop up recently where someone else had packaged it
<popey> but not for feisty
<tepsipakki> popey: you mean the blog entry?
<popey> I think it was on the planet
<popey> yes
<tepsipakki> yeah, it was for dapper
<popey> ahh
<popey> old
<tepsipakki> and no source for it
<popey> boo
<ajmitch> aha, popey lives
<Treenaks> ish
<ajmitch> so we should expect packages from him Real Soon Now
<Hobbsee> hehe, ish
* TheMuso returns.
<Hobbsee> yay, TheMuso!
<TheMuso> Evening Hobbsee.
<ajmitch> TheMuso lives also!
* Hobbsee doesnt live
* Hobbsee is just a ghost
<popey> erk
* TheMuso ponders... Work on Ubuntu stuff, or other projects...
<ajmitch> ubuntu
<ajmitch> popey: we have faith in you
<popey> fool
<popey> mad fool
<ajmitch> obviously
<popey> :)
<tepsipakki> popey: have you looked at packaging ifolder et al yet?
* ajmitch was foolish enough to fly halfway round the world to spend time with people like you & jono
<Hobbsee> same here
<Hobbsee> that makes us major fools.
<popey> a bit yes tepsipakki 
<TheMuso> meh ubuntu it is.
<TheMuso> I need it to be first thing in the morning for one of my other projects.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<TheMuso> Now... Where to start... :p
<Hobbsee> just dont sleep
<Hobbsee> merges.
<TheMuso> .c
<TheMuso> Actually, I'd better take care of a new espeak package, before I do any univese.
<TheMuso> universe
<tepsipakki> popey: how about we join the ifolder-dev team, and you put the packaging work as a bzr branch there? I'll take a look at it once I have more time (in a week or so)
<popey> sure, i will poke mez when i see him
<tepsipakki> nice
<StevenK> TheMuso: Do you need a sponsor?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Not ready yet. Still testing stuff, and consulting with upstream about some stuff.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks anyway. I'll just subscribe ums when I report the bug.
<StevenK> Sounds good to me.
<Lutin> dholbach: we're currently tsting the fix for the 0ubuntuX thing :)
<dholbach> Lutin: it'd be nice if you would have announced that somewhere
<dholbach> Lutin: people were uploading broken packages or are asking syncs that are not appropriate
<Lutin> dholbach: yeah :/. hopefully it should be fixed very soon
<dholbach> please announce it widely, so people can get working on fixing their wrong uploads
<dholbach> up until now I don't see an effort being made to fix them
<Lutin> dholbach: are there many of those packages that have been sync-requested ?
<dholbach> nobody knows
<dholbach> but 6 of my packages were overwritten
<dholbach> I can deal with that
<dholbach> but nobody knows how many broken packages we now have in the archive
<Lutin> ouch
<tepsipakki> re: xmms, doesn't audacious cover all the cases where xmms is useful?
<tepsipakki> it's a fork of bmp (which has changed completely since 0.9x)
<\sh> <Enverex> \sh, No, it's just the "shitstain" theme of Ubuntu is bad enough. Wine also shouldn't be altered before being distributed.
<\sh> *rotfl*
<Loic> hi
<Loic> imbrandon, any news about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xvidcore/+bug/84705 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 84705 in xvidcore "[Feisty]  libxvidcore missing dependency for yasm for i386 arch : more than 3 times slower than in edgy" [Medium,Fix committed]  
<Hobbsee> crimsun: you know, with persia being a MOTU, we can retire from u-u-s
<Hobbsee> :P
<StevenK> Sounds about right.
<TheMuso> Slackers!!!
<Hobbsee> yep, we are.
<StevenK> TheMuso: The question is, what are you going to do about it? :-P
<TheMuso> StevenK: Keep on working on the team.
<dothebart> raphink: i've uploaded citadel and libical packages to revu, but they didn't show up in the list so far...
<raphink> let me see
<dothebart> plus i wasn't able to do the lost pastword trick yet...
<dothebart> it was around 23 o clock mesz yesterday.
<raphink> did you add yourself to the ubuntu-universe-contributors gruop?
<dothebart> i've added myself to the group described on the wiki last week..
<raphink> hmm I don't see you there
<raphink> oh yes you are here
<raphink> your GPG key is not on LP though
<raphink> you ahve to add it to your account
<Adri2000> dholbach: I've just replied to your email, I understand that it caused troubles if packages have been overwritten, but IMO "people" who requested/acked theses syncs or uploaded broken merges should be more careful. as I wrote on the mail, DaD creates an empty ubuntu diff for the 0ubuntuX only packages, I guess a MOTU should understand that it's broken.
<dothebart> hm, i thought i had...
<dothebart> i did that gpg upload to the key server.
<raphink> that's not enough
<raphink> you have to add your key to your LP account
<dothebart> hm, ok.
<raphink> https://launchpad.net/~w-goesgens/+editpgpkeys
<raphink> here
<raphink> once you have done that, I'll have to resync the keyring
<raphink> I'll do that when I'm back from lunch 
<raphink> ;)
<dothebart> hm, i don't have the data over here at work...
<dothebart> i think i will do that this evening then.
<dothebart> though i wasn't able to find any of you after work online ;)
<raphink> dothebart: ok
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: was it documented that it was broken?
<Hobbsee> and do we have a list fo MOTU's who ack'd these syncs, to go and yell at?
<StevenK> I can recall two, of the top of my head.
<StevenK> One involved jokosher.
<Hobbsee> i meant the people
<StevenK> Yes, so I'm looking up the bug now.
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: it's been mentioned here many times, and there is bug #113688
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113688 in dad "0ubuntuX only in the changelog -> broken" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113688
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: whicih is no good unless you actually follow DAD development, of course
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: would have expected the url of that bug to be posted to the motu ML, once you'd found it
<ajmitch> there should be a big <blink> saying "don't use this"
* StevenK concurs with ajmitch
<ajmitch> http://jonobaconfanclub.co.uk/ <-- good use of <blink>
<StevenK> Hobbsee: The person in question for jokosher is geser.
<Fujitsu> There's no such thing as a good use of <blink>
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: sure there is
<Treenaks> Fujitsu: there is.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Bug 112574
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112574 in jokosher "Please sync jokosher 0.2-1.1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112574
<Fujitsu> Nice photo, thought.
<Treenaks> popey needs to update that page a bit though
<ajmitch> Treenaks: agreed
<popey> :)
<Treenaks> install wordpress, upload loads of compromising jonopics
* Fujitsu has personally always checked all of the diffs generated by MoM/DaD, but I guess others don't.
<StevenK> I also do.
<Hobbsee> maybe i'm missing something here, but if you discover a major bug in a tool that people are using, it's your responsibilty to fix it, and immediately notify the most suitable mailing lists, etc, that it's broken.
<Hobbsee> (if you're the upstream author)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: that was hilarious
<Hobbsee> and saying "people should be more careful" doesnt cut it.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Sensible.
<Hobbsee> also, only putting it on irc doesnt cut it either - many people arent watching, particularly if they're at UDS or whatever
<Hobbsee> irc is *not* a good way to get announcements out to everyone.
<joejaxx> mailling lists?
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: motu mailing list would have been a good choice
<Hobbsee> also ubuntu-devel, ubuntu-devel-discuss
<Hobbsee> seeing as the original project had been announced on there.
<Lutin> Fujitsu mentionned it on the list iirc
<Fujitsu> Lutin: I'm not sure I actually ended up sending that to the list :(
<joejaxx> does anyone know the color scheme on MoM?
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: it's by importance
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: ah ok thanks
<Hobbsee> got no idea hwo they deduce that, though
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i'm not sure i saw it, eitehr
<Lutin> Fujitsu: eek right, that was a private mail. sigh
<StevenK> I can't recall seeing anything about it.
<Fujitsu> Lutin: Yeah, sorry.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: np. I should have been more careful
<geser> Hobbsee: importance as in Section: field in control
<StevenK> Hrm. I didn't think MoM was ordered by Section.
<ajmitch> night all
<Fujitsu> Night ajmitch.
<pochu> good night
<geser> Fujitsu: I check usually (especially now) the diffs generated by MoM/DaD before ACKing a sync, but I don't remember anymore if MoM was already uptodate when I ACKed the jokosher sync
<Hobbsee> geser: ahh
<geser> Hobbsee, StevenK: got the wrong field: it's Priority
<geser> not Section
<StevenK> geser: But why not check yourself? I check *every* sync or merge I rubber stamp because I want to be sure that we don't lose changes that have been made for a reason.
<geser> I guess I got used to the useable patch files generated by MoM
<geser> and only check the (broken) patch file generated by DaD which contained only changelog delta :(
<StevenK> Enough that you only rely on it?
<geser> not anymore
<StevenK> Even spending two minutes reading interdiff output from Debian and Ubuntu would have shown you the sync request was a Bad Idea.
<StevenK> gunzip the two diff.gz's, and interdiff them.
<geser> I now check the debdiff between the Ubuntu package and the to by synced Debian package
<geser> for syncs
<geser> are the patches from patches.ubuntu.com reliable?
<StevenK> I daresay yes.
<geser> I use them to compare debdiffs for merges (and also check the new changelog entry) if nothing got lost
<StevenK> Sure, but unless you certain they are being updated, don't rely on them.
<StevenK> s/you/you're/
<geser> I use them only to see the current Ubuntu delta
<geser> or is there a better place to see what exactly was changed in the Ubuntu package?
<Hobbsee> patches.ubuntu.com seems ogod
<Hobbsee> *good
<Hobbsee> as that's what's being sent to debian too
<geser> I use the Debian PTS to get the link for the delta
<joejaxx> Good Morning motu
* joejaxx forgot to say that
<Hobbsee> hiya joejaxx :P
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> i really need to stop naming directories in my home folder random things
<joejaxx> example: asdfblah
<lucas> joejaxx: use /tmp
<Hobbsee> hehe
<joejaxx> lucas: the sad thing is they are not tmp files 
* Hobbsee uses /devel/current
<joejaxx> they are actually files i need
* Treenaks always has loads of 'blah.txt' files everywhere
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: i should probably do something like that
<Treenaks> sometimes with useful stuff in them :)
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: which i automatically rm -rf * :P
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: :P
<joejaxx> the only thing i have on / that is not standard is cdibuildder
* Hobbsee has /pbuilder and /devel
<joejaxx> other than that everything is either is /usr/src or ~/randomlynameddirectorythatiknowwhatitius
<joejaxx> s/ius/is/g
<Hobbsee> hehe
<geser> ah, you hash the real dir name?
<joejaxx> well not in the sense of a algorithmic hash
<joejaxx> but asdfblah is my svn stuff
<joejaxx> blahblah1 is a chroot of edgy
<joejaxx> things like that lol
<joejaxx> i guess cryptic names
<joejaxx> build is where xserver automatically downloads and builds itself
<joejaxx> merges is surprisingly merges
<dholbach> Adri2000: of course they should be more careful
<dholbach> Adri2000: I wasn't blaming you
<Lutin> dholbach: we can't deny we have a responsability in all that crap though
<dholbach> sure, that's why it would have been nice to have an announce about that
<dholbach> so people can take care of reverting those changes
<Fujitsu> Lutin: The point of having MoM not automagically uploading things is so that people check that everything is sane. Your responsibility is very limited.
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<joejaxx> Good Morning ScottK 
<Hobbsee> hi ScottK 
<geser> Hi ScottK
<Fujitsu> Hi ScottK.
<pochu> heya ScottK 
<Lutin> Fujitsu: yep, but as dholbach pointed out, we should have annouced that this particular point was buggy
<ScottK> IIRC it was discussed here (I was certainly aware of the problem).
<Fujitsu> Probably, but then that's partly my fault.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: no
<bluekuja> dholbach: I mean new upstream releases that needs packaging
<dholbach> bluekuja: so if you want to start a torrent team that takes care of all the bittorrent related packages, I think that's cool
<dholbach> and I'm sure you'd find a bunch of testers and helpers
<dholbach> bluekuja: ah... ok - I don't know
<bluekuja> dholbach, I'll take a look around for them :)
<dholbach> bluekuja: I didn't touch any bittorrent related packages in a while
<xxxxx1> morning!
<bluekuja> dholbach, do you have some suggestions to start this project?
<dholbach> bluekuja: start a team in LP, write a wiki page about your plans, make the team bug contact for the packages you want to take care of and announce it on the lists
<dholbach> from there start to work closely with upstreams
<dholbach> and all will be good :)
<bluekuja> dholbach: great ! 
<bluekuja> dholbach, gonna start it now :)
<dholbach> excellent :)
<bluekuja> dholbach, thanks for your help, its really appreciated
<dholbach> no problem
<dholbach> :-)
<bluekuja> ;)
<DarkSun88> Hi
<joejaxx> hello
<pochu> hi DarkSun88 
<DarkSun88> pochu joejaxx : Hi :)
<joejaxx> :)
<Lutin> dholbach: fix commited, the issue should be fixed on the next update, starting at 16:00 +0200
<dholbach> Lutin: thanks for your work on that
<pochu> Lutin: rock on :)
<Lutin> main will wait a bit longer, anyways no one uses it
<siretart> is one month an acceptable timeframe for waiting a submitter to report back from a question, or shall I wait longer?
<joejaxx> siretart: that sounds acceptable
<elkbuntu> w00t, photos flickr-ised
<Treenaks> elkbuntu: link?
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Share/Blog ?
<gpocentek> siretart: did we find a agreement about REVU "mass removal"?
<gpocentek> s/a /an /
<Hobbsee> gpocentek: remove after 1 year or 6 months - dont remember which
<gpocentek> ok
<geser> StevenK: have you some time to sponsor a gnupg2 merge?
<siretart> gpocentek: I didn't hear about it yet, currently I think I'll just 'auto archive' everything older than, let's say, 2 months?
<Hobbsee> siretart: depends how long there is between new package freeze and release
<Hobbsee> siretart: id' say auto archive anything not touched in 6 months, delete after 12
* Hobbsee shrugs
<StevenK> geser: Maybe. Do you feel lucky? :-P
<siretart> Hobbsee: sounds good to me as well
<StevenK> ScottK: Not confused any more?
<geser> StevenK: I've a good feeling about it. bug #114794
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114794 in gnupg2 "[Merge]  Merge gnupg2 2.0.4-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114794
<StevenK> Ah. gnupg2's source being in main.
<ScottK> StevenK: No, discovered my service provider switched my DNS servers without bothering to mention it to me...
<StevenK> ScottK: Hah. Nice of them.
<StevenK> geser: Shouldn't I just request and ack a sync?
* StevenK smirks evilly.
<gpocentek> siretart: I'm fine with 2 months for auto-archiving, and I'm really really in favour of nucking packages older than 6 months
<gpocentek> REVU is currently a mess because uploaders don't update their packages IMO
<geser> StevenK: I've learned my lesson with those bad syncs.
<siretart> gpocentek: so do I, but as 'nukeing' means 'removing without any change to restore them', I'm hesitating a bit
<elkbuntu> Treenaks, StevenK http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294638@N02/
<StevenK> geser: That remains to be seen, but we'll see.
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Thanks!
<gpocentek> siretart: but what can we do? I've sent a mail a while ago to ask uploaders an update of their package for gutsy, only a few did it
<gpocentek> (mail on the MOTU ml)
<Hobbsee> gpocentek: siretart if we removed all packages older than 12 months, how many does that leave us with?
<gpocentek> too many :p
<siretart> gpocentek: could you please mail ubuntu-motu@ with your proposal (2 months auto-archive, 6 month autonuke), and let people discuss it, let's say, a week or so?
<Hobbsee> well, yes, but i'm wondering how many
<siretart> Hobbsee: still more than we can review :/
<gpocentek> siretart: sure
<Hobbsee> siretart: of course, yes, but hwo many?
<Hobbsee> compared to hwo many we have now
<Hobbsee> i wonder how many people would be inactive for 6 months, for wahtever reason, then come back to doing what they're doing
<siretart> Hobbsee: I would need to do some statistics about that. if you're interested and familar with SQL, you could just query the postgres on tiber
<Hobbsee> my concern is for people who decide to take a release off, due to overwork
<Hobbsee> although that doesnt seem to happen as much for non motu's
<siretart> Hobbsee: if they come back to live, I think they'll surely have a backup of their work and ready to just reupload them. REVU is meant as an reviewing aid, not as bazaar for unpublished packages
<Hobbsee> siretart: that's true
<siretart> we have the supermirror (launchpad) for that
<siretart> gpocentek: thanks! (for writing the email)
<Hobbsee> siretart: on that basis, 2 months autoarchive and 6 month delete sounds good to me
<Hobbsee> if they want anything otu for hte next release, it'll need a new upload, for the new release, anyway.
<siretart> right
<StevenK> I agree, even if my opinion might not mean much.
<ScottK> siretart: Is it feasible to archive comments and such for longer?
<siretart> I don't expect serious objections on the mailing list, but I'd like to have everyone contributing and reviewing informed about this before we do that
<siretart> ScottK: are you interested enough in this to contribute code? - then sure!
<ScottK> Hmmm
<siretart> (no, it isn't really hard, I promise ;)
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> REVU is in Python, right?
<siretart> look at the last commit to the revu1 trunk, and look how I deleted the last bunch of packages
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> How long would I have to get the code done?
* ScottK would also have to learn yet another revision control system ....
<siretart> the removal doesn't go automatic because of paranoia. the script drops merely uploads (and all related comments) - you would need to provide an alternative to that
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> If it's in Python, I should be able to manage that, just not sure exactly when I could get it done...
<siretart> if a package gets nuked, the directory is added to a file called 'removals.txt'. I manually remove them after hand reviewing the file
<siretart> ScottK: yes, REVU is all in python
<ScottK> I guess as long as I procrastinate, it's just comments keep getting lost.
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: nice pictures
<Hobbsee> apart from the pool throwing ones, of course
<siretart> ScottK: I wonder why you care in old comments. Honestly, since I don't see a usecase for that, I find them rather annoying
<siretart> old comments as in "comments older than 12 months"
<ScottK> siretart: I was thinking to have them stored, but not displayed.
* ScottK is mostly nervous about losing history.
<siretart> ScottK: hm. you could perhaps write some exporter for the comments, which is run just before nuking the package. this way you had them stored somehow
<ScottK> Something like that, yes.
<siretart> well, great. Just branch from launchpad, and tell me where I can merge your changes from when you have something to share
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, hehehe
<ScottK> OK.
* Hobbsee thinks they should have thrown elkbuntu in the pool.
* ScottK will have to learn some new code management stuff...
<elkbuntu> haha
* joejaxx wonders how he always avoids the photos
<StevenK> I managed to avoid them all by being in Sydney.
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<Hobbsee> hehe, effective
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso!
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> geser: Your debdiff looks okay.
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Opera on Ubuntu at Sydney Airport. Impressive.
<elkbuntu> StevenK, one of the terminals was in hard lock at some stupid javascript infested site though
<StevenK> That's okay, we'll blame Opera.
<StevenK> geser: Have you considered taking some of the patch to Debian, such as the installdocs change, the debian/copyright change and the description change?
<elkbuntu> StevenK, i like that mode of thinking
<geser> not yet, but might file a bug about it
<elkbuntu> since it's not open, we cant debug it ;)
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Exactly!
<elkbuntu> the terminals are pretty effectively locked down too... that window was the only way i could get a photo of the ubuntuness
<StevenK> Couldn't type into the address bar?
<joejaxx> with the C marked files from MoM for a particular package
<elkbuntu> yeah.. how would that have proved ubuntuness?
<joejaxx> what is that =========?
<StevenK> elkbuntu: file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/
<elkbuntu> ooh.. never thought to try
<elkbuntu> this was the only 5 mins we actually got to touch a working terminal, after the flight was called and everyone else headed to the gate
<joejaxx> does that separate the differences between the two files?
<apachelogger> hm
<StevenK> Ah
<StevenK> joejaxx: It's a conflict seperator.
<apachelogger> guys, what to do if tarball is heavily broken (though fixable) but upstream doesn't respond?
<joejaxx> StevenK: so anything between the arrows and the === is the conflicting stuff i presume
<StevenK> joejaxx: Anything between <<<<< ===== >>>>> , and yes.
<joejaxx> ok that is what i thought i just wanted to make sure
<StevenK> joejaxx: Read the REPORT file
<joejaxx> StevenK: yeap i did
<joejaxx> i did not know the format though
<StevenK> Those files marked with 'C ' contain diff3 conflict markers, which can
<StevenK> be resolved using the text editor of your choice.
<joejaxx> i rather ask now than ignorantly proceed
<StevenK> joejaxx: Smart man. :-)
<ScottK> Does the changelog entry in LP reflect what will be in debian/changelog for the synched package (particularly the person making the entry)?  As an example, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/python-dns/2.3.0-6 and http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/python-dns/current/changelog show different people making the change...
<geser> LP shows only the contents from the .changes file
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.
<StevenK> ScottK: Launchpad shows who requested the sync.
<geser> the real changelog from the package is the same as in Debian
<ScottK> Good.
<StevenK> Which was me.
<ScottK> Right.  Makes sense.
* ScottK is Debian maintainer for that particular package, so I was a little confused seeing what was in LP.
<StevenK> Ah.
<ScottK> No problem now that I understand it.
<StevenK> If you upload -7 before auto-import is turned off, it'll say katie.
<ScottK> We'll see how much people break it now that it's been updated.
<StevenK> For example, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpoe-perl/2:0.9989-1
<StevenK> geser: Sync request for gnupg2 filed.
<StevenK> geser: Er, I mean, uploaded. :-)
<geser> thanks
<StevenK> I'm done poking fun, too, just so you know.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: for tonight, of course.
<StevenK> Well, that's implied.
<StevenK> Besides it's a new day in 20 minutes here.
<joejaxx> if a bug has a mentor what does that mean for someone who wants to fix it?
<pochu> joejaxx: that he's willing to help you fixing it (i.e. answering your questions and that)
<Rossimo-work> could I ask a question or two about remastering a feisty ubuntu cd?
<stani> If something is added to the Debian MOTU repository, does it automatically becomes available in the Ubuntu Universe?
<stani> And vice versa (Ubuntu -> Debian)?
<StevenK> Debian has a MOTU repository?
<stani> Don't they have a universe repository?
<Hobbsee> no
<siretart> stani: you must be confusing something here
<siretart> lucas: around?
<joejaxx> grr what is that line again? Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU ......
<lucas> yes
* joejaxx goes to look at one of his previous change logs
<gpocentek> joejaxx: DebianMaintainerField wiki page ;)
<lucas> siretart: yes
<StevenK> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<siretart> query please
<joejaxx> gpocentek: yes 
<joejaxx> gpocentek: i seriously need to memorize that page
<joejaxx> i keep forgetting the name of that wiki page
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: or use the script.  *g*
<joejaxx> what script?
<Hobbsee> Lutin's.
<stani> OK, I meant the unstable repository of Debian. I'll read the wiki page.
<StevenK> Did anyone else find it confusing that there is now a piece of software called Lutin and it was discussed at the UDS?
<Hobbsee> Lutin: see https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk
<Lutin> StevenK: really ?
<StevenK> Oh, almost.
<siretart> stani: there us no automated syncing from ubuntu to debian. there is automated syncing from debian to ubuntu for some packages. please read the UbuntuDevelopment wiki page for details
<StevenK> Lu*p*in is the software
<Lutin> StevenK: oh, ok
<stani> thanks siretart
<joejaxx> will that stinks everyone has taken all the bitsized bugs :P
<joejaxx> StevenK: care to review i patch i did ?
<StevenK> joejaxx: Not really, but only because it's quarter past midnight.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> anyone else? it is quite small
<ScottK> joejaxx: I can't upload it, but I'd take a quick look if you want.
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org/bug114162.patch
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> Bug #114162
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114162 in chuck "chuck doesn't suggest/recommend jackd, but seems to need it to work" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114162
<StevenK> joejaxx: gutsy, not fesity
<StevenK> Er, feisty
<joejaxx> whoops
<ScottK> joejaxx: Did you check and make sure that jackd and check actually work together?
<ScottK> Assuming that it actually works, I think it makes sense.
<dholbach> mruiz: thanks for considering helping out with the merges
<mruiz> dholbach: my pleasure!
* dholbach hugs mruiz
<dholbach> mruiz: if you need any help - be sure to ask in here - I'm sure somebody can review your changes and help if needed
<mruiz> dholbach: ok. First of all, what I need to have to start? (Ubuntu version, tools, etc)  
<dholbach> if you don't have gutsy installed, it might make sense to have at least a gutsy chroot
<dholbach> or a gutsy pbuilder
<dholbach> so you can test your biuld
<dholbach> build
<mruiz> dholbach: what's about a gusty VMware image ?
<dholbach> that's cool too
<dholbach> sorry, if I don't reply quickly - I'm currently in a meeting
<dholbach> but keep on asking :)
<mruiz> no worries :)
<bmm> Hi MOTU poeple. Does anybody have time to take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5125 while I have the time to fix any problems?
<joejaxx> ryanakca: /win las
<joejaxx> bah
<leonel> hello motus ..
<ScottK> leonel: Hello
<leonel> ScottK: hello !
<leonel> ScottK: do you know  what's holding the release for the  squirrelmail update for  feisty    I see it  already on  feisty-security  
<ScottK> leonel: That's where it goes.  The security repository is enabled by default.
<ScottK> So it should be released now.
<leonel> ScottK:  even the  edgy and  dapper  are not ready ?
<ScottK> Yes
<leonel> ScottK:  perfect
<ScottK> Universe is not officially supported, security support is on a best effort basis.
<leonel> ScottK: today I MUST have the edgy  done
<ScottK> Great.
<leonel> ScottK: do I upload the edgy debdiff   to the same bug report ?
<ScottK> Yes
<leonel> ok
<ScottK> leonel: In fact you can mark the Feisty task on the bug Fix Released since the new package has built.
<ScottK> leonel: Have you been able to confirm that the same issues exist in Dapper/Edgy?
<leonel> cottk : even if the  announce is not released  yet ?
<leonel> Scottk : even if the  announce is not released  yet ?
<leonel> ScottK:  yes they are
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.  Ubuntu doesn't normally do announcements for Universe packages.
<leonel> ScottK: since  the stable squirrelmail  I think only do new releases for security updates   
<ScottK> OK
<leonel> so  if the  dapper 1.4.6   the changes for  1.4.7  fixes some   1.4.8 someothers   1.4.9  1.4.9a  1.4.10  and 1.4.10a  fix security bugs
<ScottK> leonel: Do you want to mark Feisty fix released or should I?
<leonel> would be nice ...
<ScottK> leonel: You need to check and only make the changes that related to security problems.  The squirrellmail changelog should tell you enough.
<ScottK> leonel: Would be nice if I did it?
<leonel> yes  be  my guest ...
<leonel> jejeje
<leonel> ScottK:  yes  I'm checking  the changelog  in the package  and  the security updates issued by squirrelmail
<ScottK> Great.  Bug #113725 updated.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113725 in squirrelmail "Cross site scripting in HTML filter" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113725
<leonel> YES !
<leonel> thanks  ScottK  
<ScottK> NP.
<pochu> slomo: around? :)
<leonel> ScottK: so there's no way that the people that has  squirrelmail installed on feisty knows  that they need to upgrade ?
<ScottK> leonel: Should just happen
<leonel> ok
<ScottK> Maybe keescook would be willing to publish a notice after all the releases are done.  I don't know.
<leonel> ok
<geser> as everybody should have -security enabled they get automatically a notify about an update
<geser> but afaik there are no USN for universe packages
<keescook> There really isn't a mechanism for doing universe announcements.  I did get the publisher fixed so that they would show up on RELEASE-changes mailing list at least
<leonel> thanks  geser keescook  
<keescook> leonel: thanks for getting the patches tested!  That's the hard part.  :)
<leonel> for dapper  is  where my  knees  are shaking  :)
<pochu> does anybody have a merge he doesn't want to do? :)
<persia> pochu: I'm not going to do k3b, but it's really not easy.
<pochu> persia: I can try it :)
<pochu> I'll learn something, I hope
<persia> pochu: Good luck.  Just FYI, it's in main, so you'll need some extra review getting it uploaded.
<nixternal> there is another new k3b?
<persia> nixternal: Mom tells me to merge 1.0.1-1
<nixternal> ahh
<persia> nixternal: How is plucker?  Will you be able to move to 1.9.0?  Did the patch work?
<nixternal> I haven't had a chance to mess with it yet
<nixternal> probably this weekend I will get a better chance, or maybe even this evening
<nixternal> finals week
<persia> nixternal: Sorry then.  I thought you had been.  Let me know if you want any help debugging the wx2.4 -> wx2.6 stuff.
<micahcowan> Does anyone here use opie for OTP, or is familiar with it?
<micahcowan> (Not a support request)
<nixternal> will do persia, thanks!
<nixternal> been a while since I messed with opie (familiar frontend correct?)
<persia> micahcowan: I've used Opie, but currently have Sharp stock environments on both my devices.  What do you mean by OTP?
<micahcowan> Opie is an implementation of OTP, formerly known as/modified version of S/KEY.
<nixternal> I had Opie on my Zaurus, but whoever stole it now has it :)
<micahcowan> :/
<persia> micahcowan: Ah.  Sorry: I thought you meant Open Palmtop Integrated Environment.
<nixternal> as did I
<micahcowan> Aha. No, "One-Time Passwords".
* micahcowan takes note of alternative meaning
* persia wonders if Intel will release a 4" laptop for Ubuntu Mobile...
<ScottK> One Tim Pad, actually.
<ScottK> Tim/Time
<micahcowan> ScottK, that's something else, actually.
<ScottK> Oh.
<micahcowan> And yes, it sucks that there are two OTPs, both related to security.
<ScottK> Hmmm
<micahcowan> rfc 2289
<micahcowan> Of course, I'd be somewhat surprised to see a widespread, practical implementation of a one-time pad, considering its practical problems, especially wrt key distribution :/
<persia> ScottK: "One Time Password"; The user carrys a list of 20 or so passwords, and only the user knows which is the next one.  The password changes for each login.  "One Time Pad": a cypher encryption scheme that is only used once, and so cannot eaily be broken by repeated interceptions.
<micahcowan> s/cannot easily/can never be/. It is the only known form of encryption that can actually be mathematically proven impossible to decipher without the key. :)
<persia> micahcowan: Isn't ssh's use of session keys similar in principle to one-time pads?  The key is used for the entire session, but a new key is generated for each session.  Short sessions "ssh -c foo" can be used to reduce the chance of interception.
<micahcowan> persia, no. (explanation coming...)
<persia> micahcowan: Unfortunately, not all "One Time Pad"s are only used one time.  There is a somewhat famous story of a rotating set of pads that was eventually cracked by British codebrakers in around 1943.
<micahcowan> A one-time pad /must/ be at least as large in size as the /entire/ communication. Ssh uses a much smaller key, and uses feedback-based encryption to enhance security for that key (which is how all good block ciphers work)
<micahcowan> persia, when that happens, it is by definition not a one-time pad.
<micahcowan> one-time pads are literally 100% fool-proof when the key is kept secret and used only once. It loses almost /all/ reliability if you ever use it a second time.
<persia> micahcowan: Thanks for the explanation.  I've been misusing the term for years.  Also, as far as one-time pads, that's why I've been putting them in quotes :)
<micahcowan> Because of its guaranteed security, though, there are literally hundreds to thousands of products that /claim/ to be OTPs, but absolutely are not. Never trust anything that claims to be, because actual implementation is completely impractical, given that the only way to transport the key safely is via "handcuffed briefcase" :)
<dothebart> hm... i've uploaded a key to launchpad, but its in "pending validation" state...
<dothebart> it's been that for about a week... 
<dothebart> what else do i have to do?
<micahcowan> Huh. Yeah, shoulda been synched by now... :)
<Hobbsee> dothebart: is it trying to check yoru email, or something?
<dothebart> dunno...
<micahcowan> So, no one here uses opiepasswd and the like, then? :/  ...it may be hard for me to find someone to confirm my bug.
<persia> micahcowan: If you can give me a testcase, I wouldn't mind trying to duplicate it.
<dothebart> ah, i have to open the valitation email with tbird...
<micahcowan> persia, it's bug 61335. A rather minor issue, in which I assert that opieinfo ought to be setuid, so that the user can see his own information, that he had set using opiepasswd (and can in fact check using opiepasswd, in a cumbersome way).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 61335 in opie "opieinfo isn't setuid, whilst opiepasswd is" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/61335
<micahcowan> The thing that one-time passwords/ (as opposed to pads) are very nice for, is when shelling in from a computer whose keyboard may be sniffed: the password will not work the next time someone tries to use it. Of course, you still have to trust that, while you're logged in via the untrusted machine, nobody is able to use a mechanism to issue hidden commands while you're logged in, or secretly keep your session open.
<dothebart> ah, done.
<leonel> is there a command  or how do  I know from the installed  packages  whichones  are from universe ?
<micahcowan> dothebart, cool. :) Gonna become an official ubuntero, then?
<dothebart> dunno, i wanted to upload citadel.org packages to revu
<persia> leonel: The hard way is to do something with grep-dctrl, but there's probably an easier way.
<dothebart> so far they're available at ubuntu.citadel.org/ubuntu
<micahcowan> Hm, I was thinking that dpkg -s said that, but nope.
<leonel> persia: what I did was to do a    wget packages.gz from universe  and then  check the  dpkg -l  against de packages.gz
<micahcowan> Oh, of course it does: in the Filename field.
<bmm> leonel: make a custom filter in synaptic
<bmm> won't allow you to script the result, but you will get a view of them.
<micahcowan> leonel, you can use the Filename field from any of dpkg -s, dpkg -p, and apt-cache show.
<leonel> micahcowan: that's what I'm using  the filename field 
<leonel> but from packages.gz
<micahcowan> dothebart, as long as you have your key uploaded, then if you choose, you could cryptographically sign the CoC, which will mark you as an Ubuntero. It doesn't mean anything other than the fact that you have committed to abide by the CoC. OTOH, if you intend to apply for membership at some point, that's one step out of the way. :)
<leonel> micahcowan: with the  Section  from  apt-cache show   
<leonel> thanks
<micahcowan> leonel, well, but does the Section necessarily indicate main vs universe? For instance, emacs21 gives "editors" as section.
<ScottK> Section doesn't relate to Main/Universe
<dothebart> micahcowan: what do i have to do?
<micahcowan> dothebart, in your launchpad page, there is a "codes of conduct" link in the sidebar. That should lead you through the process.
<leonel> micahcowan: right
<micahcowan> For the most part, it will change the "Ubuntero:" field on your page from "No" to "Yes". :)
<persia> micahcowan: I can certainly replicate it, but I very much don't agree that opieinfo should be setuid root, as this allows any user on the system to collect the current sequence and seed for any other user on the same system, and by using opiepasswd, the attacker could then determine the next password for the subject, and hijack the account.  When the attacker is done, the attacker can reset the account to the old sequence and se
<micahcowan> persia, that's actually untrue: try it.
<pochu> persia: there's a new wx2.8 release :) I think I'll do it first ;)
<micahcowan> At least, I /believe/ opieinfo actually checks its calling user before allowing the info.
<micahcowan> If I'm wrong, then you're right, it shouldn't be setuid.
<micahcowan> But if I'm wrong, opieinfo is almost completely pointless, AFAICT.
<persia> micahcowan: I can at least collect the session and seed from other users.  I haven't actually configured libpam-opie, and so haven't tried the attack described above.
<geser> dholbach: I've looked a merging/syncing kiwi. It had a comment on DaD, that it can be synced. What about the Replaces: kiwi in python-kiwi. Should it be kept until the next LTS? (the binary is named kiwi in dapper and since edgy it's named python-kiwi)
<dholbach> geser: it should probably be kept :-(
<geser> I've update the comment on DaD
<persia> micahcowan: The only purpose I can see for opieinfo is for an administrator to easily create a list of starter passwords (opiekey -n 42 `opieinfo`).  It's too dangerous to be used by users (as currently implemented).
<persia> Oops: opiekey -n 42 `opieinfo $username`
<geser> dholbach: it's sort of blocked by the new python-support, it's doesn't depend on it but the egg renaming got removed in the last upload
<micahcowan> persia, Yes, you're absolutely right: as nobody, I can get info for micah. So I'll reject, then. Thanks for your help. :)
<stani> pochu: Which wx2.8 release? Do you mean 2.8.3? In that case, 2.8.4 will come out soon.
<persia> micahcowan: Glad to help.  I'm interested in security, if not currently in practice.
<dholbach> geser: what does that change? if the egg is removed?
* micahcowan suddenly noticed he's ubuntu-qa now.
<persia> pochu: Also, Debian is preparing 2.8 packages, which may well be rather different than ours.  wx2.8 might better be left for later (or may need to be done again).
<pochu> stani: 2.8.3 is already in the archives, 2.8.4 is out
<pochu> persia: are they finally going to move to 2.8? :)
<pochu> Good news!
<dothebart> micahcowan: done.
<persia> pochu: The plan is for Lenny to only have 2.8, with 2.4 and 2.6 removed.  I don't know how that will work in practice.
<pochu> persia: then I think I'll wait for them to package it
<pochu> if they don't take too long :)
<micahcowan> dothebart: "Ubuntero: Yes"  :)   Congratulations!
<geser> dholbach: many python package do a "mv versioned_egg.info unversioned_egg.info" in debian/rules. python-support 0.6.4 does it now on its own and packages doing it in debian/rules need to be updated else the FTBFS with the new python-support
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> thanks geser
<dothebart> ;)
<dothebart> anybody here able to resync the key over?
<micahcowan> What do you mean, resync the key? Have you modified your key?
<micahcowan> Last time I made a change (adding my @ubuntu.com id), I just needed to export it to the keyserver using gpg, and it was done.
<eolo999> Hi ScottK 
<zul> meh... http://www.xyzcomputing.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1053
<micahcowan> Slow loading... but I love the isometric graphic at the top :)
<micahcowan> zul, your thoughts?
<micahcowan> Does "meh" pretty much sum it up? :D
<zul> ill take a wake and see view
<zul> er...wait and see
<micahcowan> zul, ditto.
<persia> zul: micahcowan: Neither of you are going to get lots of links, hits, and attendant google adwords payout with that attitude.  You have to write early and often :)
<micahcowan> :)
<micahcowan> I don't keep an ubuntu-related blog. Nor do I use ad words; at the moment, they tend to consistently promote things that are the exact opposite of what I would desire to promote.
<micahcowan> When I write about ubuntu on my blog, it tends to be "Yay me!" stuff like, "Look at me, I just made member!" :)
<micahcowan> Which is why I keep it off of Planet Ubuntu. :
<nixternal> he
<nixternal> h
<micahcowan> h
<persia> 
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> wth
* micahcowan didn't know you could send single space characters until today :D
<nixternal> I didn't know until someone flooded #ubuntu last week with it
<persia> micahcowan: Depends on your client.  WIth most clients you need to send advanced unicode non-printing characters.  Pidgin is friendly (but perhaps shouldn't be).
<micahcowan> XChat is, as well (tried it, over at ##micahcowan ;-) )
<pochu> 
<pochu> do you mean that? ^ :)
<eolo999> 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<xxxxx1> bddebian !
<bddebian> Hello xxxxx1
<joejaxx> hello bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<eolo999> bddebian, i did it
<bddebian> eolo999: Did what?
<eolo999> python-scientific bug
<eolo999> you were joking... with ScottK about it
<bddebian> eolo999: I was?  I'm old and senile, I can't remember shit. :-)
<eolo999> it doesn't matter, np.
<ScottK> eolo999: I'm here.
<ScottK> Hello.
<eolo999> Hi ScottK 
<bddebian> Heya ScottK
<ScottK> Hi bddebian
<ScottK> eolo999: Did you say you've got a fix ready?
<eolo999> the py-scientific one...
<racarr> Could I bug someone to upload some fixes for beryl-core? There is a security fix included so I guess it needs to go in to feisty (fix for: letting anyone read video memory due to SHM permissions)
<racarr> http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/beryl-crack/beryl-core/ has the .changes .dsc .diff.tar.gz and .orig.tar.gz
<Spec> what's the eta for BUG #90902
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 90902 in linux-source-2.6.20 "prism54: eeprom failed" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90902
<keescook> racarr: I'll take a look
<ScottK> bddebian: Maybe you'd like to upload eolo999's fix: Bug #113803
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113803 in python-scientific "Python-netcdf crashes in Feisty" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113803
<Spec> and is there anything i could do to speed it up? ie: repackage it myself and upload it to revu?
<Hobbsee> Spec: ask in #ubuntu-kernel
<racarr> keescook: Thanks.
<bddebian> ScottK: Upload for gutsy?
<ScottK> bddebian: Yes
<ScottK> bddebian: Once it's fixed in Gutsy, we'll talk SRU...
<keescook> racarr: I think the debian/rules needs the cdbs simple-patch-sys added otherwise I don't think this patch actually gets applied.
<keescook> (also, the changelog needs "gutsy" rather than "feisty")
<ScottK> eolo999: Want another to work on?
<racarr> keescook: Mm. Ok.
<eolo999> let's see it... even if i have very few free time..
<ScottK> eolo999: Bug 114798 should be reasonably straightforward if you want.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114798 in spambayes "sb_imapfilter fails to run under Python 2.5: SyntaxError: from __future__ imports" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114798
* eolo999 is looking
<ScottK> eolo999: I think it just needs a little try: except: magic to get the import right for both Python 2.4 and 2.5 (haven't studied it in depth though).
<racarr> keescook: Ok. Fixed and reuploaded.
<geser> ScottK, eolo999: the fix is to move the "from __future__" line to begin of the file (of course after the #! line if one exists)
<keescook> racarr: thanks!  I've sponsored it.
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.
<racarr> keescook: Thank you :).
<eolo999> if the package is for ubuntu feisty/gutsy shouldn't be better to remove 'from __future__'
<bddebian> eolo999: And you test installed this right? :)
<eolo999> Yes i tested it rebuilding the package and installing it
<bddebian> OK, uploading
<eolo999> with c code recompiled
<ryanakca> joejaxx: ??
<eolo999> perhaps if some other person test it...
<bddebian> Well it builds and installs OK, I just don't know the app well so..
<eolo999> bddebian, to test it just: python /usr/share/doc/python-netcdf/examples/netcdf_demo.py
<bddebian> OK
* eolo999 is waiting for response
<bddebian> Seems to work fine, uploaded
<racarr> Ok. Also have some copyright issues (missing copy of the LGPL, missiong reference to the fact that the build system is LGPLed), and error handling (set -e in preerm/postinst) fixed in Aquamarine (the kwin style window decorator for Beryl...)
<racarr> http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/beryl-crack/aquamarine/
<racarr> If anyone can look at / upload that.
<geser> ScottK: I added a comment how to fix it to the bug and marked it as bitesize.
<ScottK> Great.
<eolo999> bddebian, thx
<ScottK> eolo999: There is also Bug 114859, which I haven't looked at at all.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114859 in psycopg "python-psycopg-dbg reports undefined symbol Py_InitModule4" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114859
<Lutin> racarr: you don't need to build-depend on pkg-config (required by libgtk2.0-dev at least, nor autotools-dev (required by automake1.9)
<LaserJock> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks.
<eolo999> ScottK, i'll apt source this too and see if i can do something in the next days.
<racarr> Lutin: Mm. I wonder why we didn't catch that when we originally did this
<ScottK> eolo999: Great.  Keep up the good work.
<racarr> then again. we had been working on them for 2 days straight when we got to Aquamarine...
<racarr> Ok. I can fix that...just a second
<Lutin> racarr: don't know either :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: !!
<LaserJock> bddebian: Barry!!
<bddebian> LaserJock: You went to Sevilla?
<LaserJock> yep
<eolo999> ScottK, Bug #114798 can be fixed the way you said... move import at beginning of file
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114798 in spambayes "sb_imapfilter fails to run under Python 2.5: SyntaxError: from __future__ imports" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114798
<bddebian> LaserJock: Better than France? :-)  (Spanish girls can be HOT) :-)
<ScottK> eolo999: Fix it the way geser said.
<racarr> Lutin: Ok. Fixed.
<eolo999> the strange thing is that debian/patch folder contains a 'fix_import_future.dpatch' file
<LaserJock> bddebian: it was definitely better than Paris. The food was great, the city was great
<Lutin> racarr: the first changelog entry mentions a patch which is no longer there. has it been dropped ?
<LaserJock> and I kept my laptop and wallet
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's a good improvement
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you should have stayed for longer though
<LaserJock> I know
<ScottK> eolo999: Maybe the patch just isn't being applied for some reason then.
<LaserJock> I was home for less than 24hrs though
<LaserJock> and I was flying again
<ajmitch> shame
<LaserJock> had a 3hr rehearsal and got stuck in a tux for 8hrs
<LaserJock> then flew back
<eolo999> i'm checking...
<Amaranth> bddebian: The scenery was better than, well, anywhere I've been :)
<bddebian> Amaranth: Nice
* bddebian would have liked to go :'-(
<ajmitch> then go next time
<racarr> Lutin: Looks like it. Because it's not there in the package currently in universe either.
<racarr> Lutin: It never should have been in the changelog. because it got removed when I synced with GIT. and there was no upload inbetween.
<Lutin> racarr: then, you don't need to builddep on automake1.9
<bddebian> I hope to go to Boston if I am still around
<racarr> Lutin: Err. Why do you say that? I'm almost sure we do (it failed to build without it, I remember)
<Lutin> racarr: why would you need it ? there's no change/patch against the buildsystem
<leonel> ScottK: ping
<ScottK> leonel: Pong
<leonel> ScottK:  patching  edgy's squirrelmail    after    apt-get source 
<leonel> ScottK: cd squirrelmail
<racarr> Lutin: Err. It's definitely running automake at some point while the package is being built. I can look in to why (It uses the KDE build system...which I am not really familiar with at all).
<ScottK> leonel: If this is going to get long, you might want to pastebin it.
<leonel> ScottK: then   when I do    dpatch-edit-patch   I got this error 
<ScottK> OK
<leonel> make: *** No rule to make target `unpatch'.  Stop.
<Lutin> racarr: will check....sounds strange
<ScottK> leonel: IIRC the package doesn't have the patching system installed.
<racarr> Lutin: I don't see anything in the diff.gz...
<leonel> ScottK: yes  
<ScottK> leonel: Didn't crimsun tell you to edit the source directly and not worry about adding a patch system?
<Lutin> racarr: can't see your point
<leonel> yes
<leonel> was by  dpatch-edit-patch  patch1
<leonel> then edit the source  there 
<leonel> and exit 200 
<leonel> I mean  exit 
<ScottK> leonel: Don't use dpacth-edit-patch.  That is not necessary.
<leonel> then ?
<leonel> just 
<leonel> cd source
<ScottK> Just edit the source tree directly using $EDITOR of your choice.
<leonel> ok
<Lutin> racarr: hum...funny. actually sound like the buildsystem has been modified within the orig.tar.gz
<Lutin> anyways, let's keep automake as it ftbfs otherwise
<leonel> and when I finish  with dbuild -S  -uc  us
<leonel> ?
<racarr> Lutin: Ok. So the version I have uploaded now at http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/beryl-crack/aquamarine should be good
<ScottK> leonel: Then debdiff.
<leonel> ok
<leonel> for the change log  what do I put as the package name ?
<ScottK> Not sure what you mean?
<leonel> ScottK:  squirrelmail (2:1.4.8-1ubuntu0.1) edgy-security; urgency=low
<ScottK> leonel: Looks sane.
<leonel> ok
<leonel> working ...
<ScottK> leonel: Look at the other versions and make sure you don't duplicate version numbers anywhere.
<leonel> ok
<leonel> ScottK:  squirrelmail (2:1.4.8-1) unstable; urgency=high
<leonel> 
<leonel> this is  what  edgy's squirrelmail  has
<Lutin> racarr: aquamarine-dev seems to be empty
<ScottK> just set urgency to low, we don't really use it.
<racarr> Mrgh. I wonder if it always was...let me look.
<leonel> ScottK:  so this  will be   squirrelmail (2:1.4.8-1ubuntu0.1) edgy-security; urgency=low
<ScottK> leonel: Your version number looks good.  Yes
<leonel> ok
<leonel> patching ... 
* ajmitch sighs
<ajmitch> yay, back at work now
<ajmitch> just what I always wanted
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> :(
<zul> liar!
<racarr> Lutin: Err. yeah. It's empty. It's just there for the dependencies.
<geser> leonel: what about dapper-backports? it has a backport of the edgy version
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you like work.
<leonel> geser: the edgy has bugs too
<leonel> geser: can we backport  feisty's squirrelmail to edgy and dapper ??   works fine   and  no other package gets  broke
<Lutin> racarr: can't really get the point ... but assuming it's needed, you might want to change the description to explicitely say that it's a metapackage
<racarr> Lutin: I don't really see the point either ( I didn't do it originally ). Should we just remove it?
<geser> leonel: it should be possible, but you still need to patch the released version as not everybody uses backports
<Lutin> racarr: imho, it should just be nuked. maybe poke another MOTU around to make sure it's the right thing, but I'd remove it
<leonel> geser: yes I was thinking that
<racarr> Anyone else want to comment?
<leonel> geser: and many people  thinks that  if there's no  security announce  there are no security problems   in universe 
<racarr> Updating aquamarine for some copyright issues, and it turns out the aquamarine-dev binary package is more or less useless (a metapackage of two packages). Should it just be nuked?
<racarr> nothing depends on it...
<ScottK> leonel: Actually we should be able to backport the Gutsy version to both Dapper and Edgy, but we still need the *-security fixes as backports are not enabled by default.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you shouldn't be awake
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i know.
<leonel> ScottK: yes  
<ScottK> leonel: Once you get the *-security updates done, I'll walk you through the backport request process.
<leonel> ScottK:  great !
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: please try & get back to normal .au time
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i wish.
<leonel> ScottK: I need  python-psycopg2  in dapper ... :-P    but let's do  that  after squirrelmail ..
<ScottK> leonel: OK
<bddebian> OK damnit, why does libglade-2.0 have a package config file but libglademm-2.4 doesn't? :-(
<eolo999> ScottK, ciao, i have to go...
<ScottK> eolo999: OK.  See you later.  Thanks again for your contributions.
* bddebian is truly an idiot :'-(
<joejaxx> bddebian: what happened? :(
<xxxxx1> bye all
<joejaxx> bye xxxxx1 
<bddebian> later xxxxx1
<bddebian> joejaxx: I'm just stupid :)  I didn't have the package-config file because I didn't have the -dev package installed :)
<joejaxx> :)
<DarkSun88> Any universe sponsor?
<bddebian> Later gang
<DktrKranz> see you
<leonel> why do I have to eat  I'm  patching .... 
<leonel> be back ..
<leonel> :-P
<sacater> sorry to bother, but what package to I need to install to build packages etc
<sacater> ive forgot what its called...
<leonel> dpatch devscripts pbuilder 
<leonel> ??
<sacater> devscripts
<sacater> thanks mate 
<pochu> Anybody knows how long takes an upload to feisty-proposed to build?
<pochu> btw, I can't find it either at launchpad or at archives.ubuntu.com
<crimsun> which?
<pochu> crimsun: liferea
<pochu> 1.2.10c-0ubuntu1.1
<pochu> bug 103688
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 103688 in liferea "liferea crashes - ** ERROR **: file itemlist.c: line 172 (itemlist_load): assertion failed: (NULL != itemSet)" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103688
<crimsun> that's because it hasn't been accepted yet.
<pochu> crimsun: ok, thanks :)
<micahcowan> I'd like to get opinions on the suitability of bug 105294 for an SRU to edgy.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105294 in highlight "highlight crashes by executing in a shell" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105294
<ajmitch> micahcowan: depends if there's an appropriate patch to fix it
<micahcowan> ajmitch, works in both dapper and feisty; it would seem simple enough to backport feisty's.
<micahcowan> Hm, that title needs to be fixed, I think.
<ajmitch> micahcowan: SRU doesn't mean backporting, it's getting a patch that fixes the problem
<micahcowan> ajmitch, if true, that could be made /much/ more clear on the SRU page. Also, the backport page, in referring the reader to /SRU if it is a regression or security issue, gives the impression that an SRU could be a backport for regression purposes, rather than snazzy-feature purposes.
<micahcowan> Regardless, I wouldn't mind doing a patch for highlight, as it seems likely that the fix should be straightforward. However, I don't want to put the work into it if it wouldn't be an SRU candidate in the first place.
<crimsun> it's a crash.  That's an SRU candidate if there's a trivial fix.
<paran> Is it possible to tell pbuilder not to clean up the buildplace when a build fails? I don't find any option for this in the man page
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-16
<micahcowan> Why can't an SRU be a backport?
<ajmitch> it can, but generally it shouldn't be
<nixternal> paran: --preserve-buildplace
<ajmitch> just dumping in a new upstream version isn't the best way to fix a bug
<crimsun> micahcowan: in the strict sense, an SRU is just a fix for a regression.  It /can/ be backported from a newer version; they're not mutually exclusive generally.
<plugwash> i dunno about ubuntu but with debian the general priciple of updates to stable releases is change the minimum nessacery thereby keeping the risk of regressions to a minimum
<crimsun> micahcowan: we use SRU very specifically to mean an existing fix that is easily verified, tested, and has no regressions.
<plugwash> s/no regressions/no known regressions/
<micahcowan> So, the rough critereon would be, if the new, existing package version is little more than a fix to that (and maybe other) regression/vulnerability, it could probably serve as an SRU; otherwise it should come in the form of a patch to the current (for that release) package?
<crimsun> no, SRUs are _always_ patches.
<crimsun> the only exceptions are things in main like gnome.
<micahcowan> so, when you said backport just now, you meant of that particular piece of code, and not of the package.
<crimsun> that is correct.
<crimsun> remember that it's not restricted to backporting; it can entail forwardporting, too.
<micahcowan> Gotcha. Okay, well I expect I will probably find the relevant code for this fix in either or both of its predecessor or successor. :)
<micahcowan> Thanks very much for the help, crimsun and ajmitch.
<micahcowan> Edgy support is until 2007 Oct, yes?
<micahcowan> Ah, until 2008. I see it.
<ajmitch> unfortunately
<paran> nixternal: that cleans up on failure and successful builds according to the man page
<Hobbsee> blerg.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: morning! :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: had a good sleep?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: didnt sleep
<Hobbsee> all these assignments - eek.
<ajmitch> hehehe
<ajmitch> ;)
<ajmitch> it's your own fault
<ajmitch> you should really get back to your usual timezone so that you can at least start working on them
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> physics due last week, elec due tomorrow, maths today, maths test sometime, 2 pracs...
<Hobbsee> there's probably more
<ajmitch> UDS was far more fun than assignments, right?
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> i was very tempted not to come back to uni...
<ajmitch> and do what?
<crimsun> poke people with sticks.  smuggle cigarettes.  anything but uni.
* ajmitch was tempted to not go back to work
<ajmitch> except I sort of need to have money to live
<crimsun> that's why I don't go to UDSes.  Once you see the greener grass, it all goes to shite.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> surely the grass is green where you work
<Hobbsee> crimsun: how'd you know about the cig smuggling?
<crimsun> maybe.  I'm in a dank basement with no windows.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: I read scrollback.
<Hobbsee> right
* Hobbsee doesnt remember saying about that
<Hobbsee> although maybe i did
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: your partner in crime did
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> that was a shame,yes.
<Hobbsee> and it apperas they're talking about exams already, and i cant just bullshit electronics again, by answering only half the paper
<Hobbsee> (like usual, for our electronics papers, which only require half the questions to be answered)
<ajmitch> you actually have to do work?
<Hobbsee> i actually have to know all of it, yes.
<ajmitch> scary
<Hobbsee> ooh, and a lab report.  for a lab i havent done.  *EXCELLENT*.
<Hobbsee> and MQ is broken again, so i cant access it.
<ajmitch> even worse, you'll have to actually *attend* university
* Hobbsee rains threats on the electronics department, computing department, maths department, and the people who cant be bothered to unlock a building.
<Hobbsee> seeing as the first and third have botched their webpages, which the comp department is also reponsible for.
<bmm> bddebian: thanks for the review!
<bmm> oh, nobody online under that name... well still.
<bmm> When there is a "questionable" copyright problem, how can that be solved? Are there lawyers online?
<jmg> does canonical not have a general counsel for these matters?
<jmg> perhaps you could write to the eff?
<bmm> hope it doesn't need a whole counsel
<bmm> that will take allot of time, and it's really a simple package appart from one of the licenses not being a FSF approved license :-S
<jmg> bmm: debian-legal is a good place to take it, though they tend to err on the side of caution
<jmg> whats the package/license?
<bmm> Hope that doesn't kill my  package :-S http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5125
<bmm> jmg: ow, wait the license is online here: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~mabzug1/cs/md5/md5.html
<bmm> bottom of the page
<jmg> bmm: how is this different to md5sum?
<bmm> jmg: ooh, good point, I'll see if I can find another accepted package with the same license. But the implementation is equal.
<jmg> absolutely no discussion on debian-legal
<dakira> hi! can I ask packaging related questions here, or is this channel for motus only?
<bmm> just ask
<micahcowan> dakira, I'd venture a guess that there are many more "motu hopefuls" than motus here :)
<dakira> thx ;) i'm building several packages interdependend on each other.. I use pbuilder.. so the first one is a library.. the second one a daemon depending on it.. of course pbuilder can't download the dependency (after adding it to the contro file) because it is not in the repos
<dakira> how would I go about this? any hints to documentation?
<dakira> i am building the cdemu experimental, btw
* LongPointyStick ARGH.
<micahcowan> Hi Hobbsee
<LongPointyStick> hiya
<LongPointyStick> there's too much work to do...
<pochu> LOL @ bug 114842
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114842 in Ubuntu "" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114842
<LongPointyStick> and there was no point in coming in thsi morning.
<bmm> dakira: I don't know the awnser to it, but http://edseek.com/~jasonb/articles/pbuilder_backports/pbuilderbuild.html may hold the awnser.
<micahcowan> I haven't played around with such a situation, dakira... I'm kind of hoping someone will answer you. A couple things that spring to mind would be to install both packages with the same dpkg -i command, while doing a "pbuilder execute". You'll need a clever way to get the packages into your "execute" shell.
<bmm> dakira: in the meantime, keep monitoring this channel. There may jus be smart poeple out there ;-)
<micahcowan> dakira, if you don't get an answer, it might be worth joining and posting to the ubuntu-motu mailing list. https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
<dakira> bmm: you link is just about general usage.. i know everything about that ;) but thanks anyway!
<dakira> micahcowan: i thought about something like this.. seems kind of dirty.. i thought there might be a general way to go about it
* ajmitch just has a hook to do it with pbuilder
<bmm> dakira: thought the "Feeding your build environment" things might help you enxtend it with your local package list :-D
<ajmitch> specifically running dpkg-scanpackage beforehand, and apt-get update within pbuilder
<dakira> bmm: ahh... okay.. that might be it!
<bmm> dakira: ajmitch seems to know how to do it ;)
<dakira> ajmitch: do i assume correctly that you don't build automatically with pbuilder in such a case, but login to it and do everything manually?
<ajmitch> dakira: no
<ajmitch> I just use pbuilder as normal
<dakira> ajmitch: yeah.. I just read the link bmm gave me, which describes exactly what you were saying.. so thank you.. that solves my problem!
<dakira> ajmitch: pbuilder is really a mighty thing.. i'm liking it more and more
<ajmitch> using ccache with it can help a lot with repeated builds
<minghua> pochu: I translated bug 114842
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114842 in Ubuntu "Problems about the panel" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114842
* minghua wonders if launchpad has interfaces other than English
* plugwash isn't entirely sure there is much point in making your bugtracker multilingual
<plugwash> in fact it could well be counterproductive
<dakira> btw, is there a way to submit a bug I have with launchpad itself?
<bmm> dakira: I've done that one, you can just post it in launchpad. I posted a bug about not being able to remove my account. Actually the first bug I ever posted :-)
<pochu> minghua: you rock :)
<bmm> (in lunchpad)
<crimsun> dakira: file it against launchpad
<minghua> plugwash: I agree.  I was just wondering how the user reported a bug in Chinese
<leonel> ScottK: in the source  Edgy's  squirrelmail  has been patched  now  to build and  test ...
<minghua> if you see an English-only interface, you should realize that you'd better speak English as well
<ScottK> leonel: Great
<minghua> leonel: still working on the squirrelmail patches?
<dakira> bmm, crimsun: okay.. i'll do that.. they recently messed with the CSS so that the "portlets" get all messed up in my browser
<ajmitch> dakira: opera?
<minghua> leonel: I see that Debian had a security update for squirrelmail in sarge (1.4.4 I think?)
<dakira> ajmitch: exactly ;)
<minghua> leonel: so if you haven't already known that, it may be useful for you
<ajmitch> dakira: already fixed, will be rolled out in a couple of days
<ajmitch> (according to reports earlier)
<dakira> ajmitch: nice.. thx for the information.. this was really annoying
<leonel> minghua: yes   edgy and dapper  didn't had any applied   and   since are  older versions the  patches need to get  "by hand"
<leonel> minghua: debian has  squirrelmail 1.4.4  and  edgy has  1.4.8  and  dapper  1.4.6
<minghua> leonel: oh.  sorry to hear about that.  no shorcut for us, then. :-(
<leonel> minghua:  no  
<superm1> Hey any motu's around feeling up for a revu?
<Fezzler> Appropriate to ask Samba Q?
<ScottK> Fezzler: Samba packaging or samba using question?
<Fezzler> Using/Setting up basics...not step-by-step...big picture
<ScottK> Fezzler: I'd suggest #ubuntu or #ubuntu-server
<Fezzler> Sorry, I'm new to irc (but grateful for it!)
<ScottK> Not a problem.
<Fezzler> Thanks for your kindness.
<ScottK> Not very many people around here right now to ask anyway.
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<ajmitch> -server is probably a bit quiet too
<Fezzler> Is there a "Directory of ircs"
* ScottK is sure there is, but doesn't know where to point you.
<Fezzler> I assume there are "channels" of sorts?
<Fezzler> that's it, thanks
<ScottK> Fezzler: Yes and channels have topics you can read so you can find out if you are in the right channel.
<ScottK> If you don't get it when you connect, you can type /topic and get it repeated for you.
<Fezzler> Thanks again Scott
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<LaserJock> ScottK: send in an app yet?
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: It's written.  I probably over asked for sponsors, but I'm giving people a day to respond to my request before I hit send.
* ScottK would like all the help he can get.
<ajmitch> you seem worried
<LaserJock> heh
* ScottK has an irrationally great fear of rejection.  I'm always over-prepared and fearful for this kind of thing.  My own little special psychosis.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: and you, core-dev?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: the process has changed for core-dev now, fyi :)
<ajmitch> I expect you'll be applying one day soon
<LaserJock> well, I tried at UDS
<ajmitch> oh?
* ajmitch heard rumours of such a thing
<LaserJock> hehe
<ajmitch> but the new procedure is for the MC to collect testimonials & give a recommendation
<LaserJock> so I found out ;-)
<ajmitch> (at least it's a proposed procedure)
<LaserJock> dholbach was unaware of the procedure change
<ajmitch> so you've got more people to bribe
<ajmitch> dholbach sent out the mail about it on the 8th
<LaserJock> I even updated my wiki page in preperation
<ajmitch> so I presume he found out about it at UDS
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> oli asked mdz about it
<LaserJock> and mdz said I needed MC to recommend
<LaserJock> so I talked with dholbach
<LaserJock> who talked to mdz
<LaserJock> etc.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> wonderful communication
<LaserJock> so I'm waiting until the process is nailed down
<LaserJock> which I was hoping would be quick
<LaserJock> but it'll be a few months knowing how things have gone in the past ;-)
* ScottK often finds opportunity in chaos.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: maybe by the time a new TB has been voted in? :)
<ajmitch> which was an urgent task at mt view
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> oh heah, persia is a MOTU!
<LaserJock> I really wish I had a better idea of if I would make core-dev
<LaserJock> my +packages page is not looking so good these days
* ScottK needs to finish the kitchen and get to bed, so good night everyone.
<LaserJock> cya
<ajmitch> bye ScottK 
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> "This will take place by November 21st, so that the new technical board may convene on that day."
<ajmitch> nov 21st, which year?
<LaserJock> anyone
<LaserJock> the power of being vague ;-)
<leonel> edgy's  squirrelmaill  debdiff ready to upload ...
* LongPointyStick boo
<LaserJock> yikes
<LongPointyStick> hehe :)
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> run away
* LongPointyStick spears LaserJock 
<LaserJock> ouch
* LongPointyStick spears ajmitch for even thinking about running away.
<LaserJock> geeze, somebody is a little grumpy from a long flight
<ajmitch> obviously
<ajmitch> long flight & no sleep
<LongPointyStick> LaserJock: assignments, actually.
<LongPointyStick> that too
<effie_jayx> and jet lag
<LongPointyStick> yeah
<LongPointyStick> and really really hungry.
<LaserJock> I'm still completely wiped out and a bit "confused" as to time, etc.
* ajmitch injects some caffeine into LongPointyStick 
<ajmitch> LaserJock: really?
* LongPointyStick hits the walls..
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I feel just fine
<LaserJock> I think if I would have just come home and stayed there I would have been a bit better off
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> then yesterday I had 5 hrs straight of grading/proctoring starting at 9:00am
<LaserJock> a little "welcome home" present ;-)
<LongPointyStick> ajmitch: lucky you.
<LongPointyStick> LaserJock: ugh
<effie_jayx> LongPointyStick,  this might help http://flickr.com/photos/gyrm/500234081/
<effie_jayx> :D
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I took 1 day off, and then was back at work at 8:30 this morning
<ajmitch> mmm, pizza
<LaserJock> is that broccoli?
* ajmitch did just have lunch with a few canonical people today
<chillywilly> hi
<LaserJock> I think I'd have to fly somewhere to get lunch with a Canonical person
<LaserJock> I wonder who's closest to me
<LaserJock> probably keescook
<ajmitch> hi chillywilly 
<LongPointyStick> effie_jayx: i probably shouldnt look
<effie_jayx> LongPointyStick,  hehe...
<ajmitch> closest to me is about 10-15 min walk away
<ajmitch> dunedin is a nice small city
<LongPointyStick> yet
<ajmitch> LongPointyStick: not had breakfast either?
* LaserJock grabs LongPointyStick and stabs ajmitch 
<ajmitch> LaserJock: but why?!
<Amaranth> anyone wanna test my new crack?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: no
<LaserJock> no
<Amaranth> heh
* Fujitsu attacks Amaranth with LongPointyStick.
<Amaranth> no one likes bling :/
<LaserJock> I'm wary of Amaranth crack ;-p
<LaserJock> is it compizy bling?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: I'm on an etch box that has some really crappy sis video chipset
<ajmitch> so no bling for me
<Amaranth> it's compiz-0.5.0+git20070515
<Amaranth> for gutsy
<LaserJock> yeah, the only machine I can get to use compiz is my server
<Amaranth> err, 14
<LaserJock> go figure
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: Why so old?
<Amaranth> haha
<Fujitsu> You can't have out of date cutting-edge blink.
<Fujitsu> *bling
<LaserJock> I'm just trying mundane things like figuring out what the heck this C++ line does:
<LaserJock> gcpReactionsPlugin::gcpReactionsPlugin (): gcp::Plugin ()
<Amaranth> the only update worth snagging from the 15th is a check for xsltproc
<LaserJock> hmm, I forgot about my blogs while at UES/UDS
<LaserJock> I suppose I need to do a Behind MOTU
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yep
<ajmitch> who's the lucky victim this time?
<LaserJock> hmmmmmm
<LaserJock> a shiny new MOTU might make an enticing victim
<ajmitch> that definitely rules me out ;)
<StevenK> And me, I might add.
<LaserJock> hmm, StevenK would be a good one
<LaserJock> mwuahaha
<StevenK> Can I refuse? :-P
<LaserJock> I guess I must be an old timer now. I got an LP team timeout notice today ;-)
<LaserJock> StevenK: nope
<ajmitch> LaserJock: oh really?
<LaserJock> for edubuntu-bugsquad
<LaserJock> it must have been a 1 year term
<StevenK> LaserJock: If you want to, make me a victim.
* ajmitch must be expiring from a few teams soon
<ajmitch> like motu
<superm1> with all these motu's here in the room at once - someone want to offer a few moments for a revu?
<LaserJock> * MOTUs scatter *
* ajmitch points at LaserJock 
<superm1> haha
<StevenK> superm1: We're here to socalise, not do work!
<LaserJock> superm1: what's the revu URL?
<superm1> http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=5140
<superm1> mythbuntu-artwork-usplash
<StevenK> Come on LP, tell me when my memberships expire.
<crimsun> LaserJock: persia was approved yesterday.  He'd make a fine victim^Wcandidate.
<StevenK> Oh, I have an idea.
<StevenK> Why doesn't Behind MOTU interview LaserJock.
<LaserJock> uhhh, no
* StevenK smirks.
<LaserJock> not yet at least ;-)
<LaserJock> I might put something up eventually
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ahh, this is your plan. You want to drive the spotlight and not be in it.
<LaserJock> even though it'd feel weird interviewing myself
<crimsun> thankfully I won't be interviewable, as I expire from MOTU & ubuntu-dev shortly.  =)
<StevenK> LaserJock: Get him!
<LaserJock> yeah
<StevenK> crimsun: Now you've done it. Draw attention to yourself and LaserJock's "lasers" will find you.
<LaserJock> so now I have 3 handy victims
<crimsun> easily deflected by ALSA bugs.
<StevenK> LaserJock: So you're into foursomes?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: 3?
<StevenK> Ew, I think I just grossed myself out.
<LaserJock> persia, StevenK, and crimsun 
<ajmitch> StevenK: please go & sit in the corner for a few weeks
<StevenK> ajmitch: What do you think I did while you were off enjoying UDS?
<StevenK> </bitterness>
<ajmitch> hey now, uds was hard work
<StevenK> I'm suspecting not as hard or demanding as $DAY_JOB, though.
<StevenK> I should shut up. The headache I'm developing is getting worse.
<LaserJock> I find UDSs much more demanding than $DAY_JOB
<LaserJock> but my day job is fairly undemanding for the most part
<StevenK> It depends on how demanding $DAY_JOB is.
<StevenK> For the most part, I have a large list of things to do, and for the last few weeks I've felt like it isn't getting any better.
<Fujitsu> Wow, Microsoft has some really nice patents. I just found the one covering Microsoft BOB.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Does it mention that the user interface can be used to scare small children?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Unfortunately not.
<Fujitsu> Oh my, they have patents over computers controlling cars.
<LaserJock> no wonder my car doesn't work sometimes
<LaserJock> it's XP crashing ;-)
<StevenK> I do wonder if the Microsoft BOB patent is being waved against us.
* Fujitsu warns Beryl about the cursor-locating thing.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: It probably is.
<StevenK> What the hell for? :-P
<Fujitsu> How can such trivial things as pressing the Ctrl key to indicate where the cursor is be patentable?
<Lathiat> it sounds dumb
<Lathiat> but you'd be surprised how much bullshit gets patented
<StevenK> No we wouldn't.
<Lathiat> such stupidly simple basic concepts
<Lathiat> i.e. amazons "one click shopping"
<Lathiat> oh noes we reduced shopping to one click to order and post it
<Lathiat> PATENT!
* Lathiat tests the feisty upgrader (from edgy) on his work desktop
<Fujitsu> Oh, sorry, this patent only covers drawing concentric geometric shapes around the cursor, not water ripples.
* Lathiat laughs
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: beryl needs a burning cursor
<StevenK> Now that'd be cool.
<Lathiat> ajmitch: and if you move the cursor over a window
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Concentric circles of fire, even better.
<Lathiat> it closes it in flames
<Fujitsu> Lathiat: Hahah.
<Lathiat> UNPRECEDENTED USABILITY AND FUNCTIONALITY!!111eleventy-one1
* Lathiat files a patent
<StevenK> No no, if you leave the cursor over a window for too long it bursts into flames.
<Lathiat> for extra fun
<Lathiat> do it to the root window
<Lathiat> and have it log you out
<StevenK> Hah
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<StevenK> Nautilus might have something to say about that.
<Lathiat> hrm i keep getting that stupid "which md arrays do you need to boot" question on feisty upgrades
<StevenK> Given it seems to be do nefarious things to get a desktop background and it isn't the root window.
<Lathiat> nautilus doesn't paint on the root window?
<StevenK> I thought it had its own?
<Lathiat> i noticed somethign weird once
<Lathiat> i managed to get nautilus's root window
<Lathiat> into its own floating window
<StevenK> For example, xsetroot doesn't work with KDE or Nautilus.
<keescook> LaserJock: ya know, I that you were at UDS, but I totally failed to find you and introduce myself.  I managed to put a face to a name for almost everyone else.  /me is ashamed
<ajmitch> StevenK: xplanet breaks too
<ajmitch> keescook: he ran away early
<StevenK> ajmitch: Sounds about right.
<keescook> ajmitch: ah, did he?
<ScottK> keescook: Did you see that leonel uploaded the Edgy debdiff for squirrelmail.
<ajmitch> keescook: I vaguely recall meeting you there :)
<keescook> ScottK: yeah, just saw the email.  I'll get it spun up.
<ScottK> OK.  Great.
<LaserJock> keescook: I did see you, but I was too busy to introduce myself
<keescook> ajmitch: hehe.  btw, have you got those selinux bits?
<ajmitch> keescook: yeah, on the laptop
<ajmitch> but I'm at work, and the laptop isn't :)
<ScottK> keescook: There is a new clamav merge to do.  Don't worry about it, I've started on it.
<keescook> ajmitch: hehe.  I understand -- I have notes on mine I still need to pull
<StevenK> ajmitch: What are you doing working without your laptop?
<keescook> ScottK: very cool; yeah, please take it.  :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: using a debian box at work instead?
* ScottK is learning new bits about inits as I think they solved some of the same problems in this update we did before in our diff, just in a different way.  Yeah.  Testing...
<ajmitch> keescook: I'll look at samba in a couple of hours too
<keescook> ajmitch: awesome.  :)
* ajmitch may need to invest in some alcohol to ease the pain
<StevenK> Of the samba merge?
<ajmitch> StevenK: partly
<ajmitch> I've done it in the past, but I need to get a good summary of what each patch we carry does
* ajmitch also needs to work on a couple of his other packages, including some nasty ones
<LaserJock> darn, I did have to pick a 0ubuntu1 package to try to merge
* Fujitsu watches apt{-get,itude} be taken out by a Microsoft patent.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Is that a problem?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why is that a problem?
<LaserJock> well, I gotta figure out if there was anything Ubuntu-specific about the package
<keescook> hm, where's the gpg key for keyring@tiber.tauware.de ?  doing a key search doesn't find it.
<Fujitsu> interdiffing of the .diff.gzs is your friend.
<ajmitch> keescook: I don't think there is one
<ajmitch> keescook: is it needed?
<keescook> "Please send a signed and encrypted mail with your password and GnuPG keyid to [MAILTO]  keyring@tiber.tauware.de. We will mark you as Reviewer in the database."
<ajmitch> keescook: interesting, where did you see that?
* Fujitsu hasn't seen that instruction before.
<keescook> I can't send it encrypted without that...  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Fujitsu> I thought it was more like `talk to a REVU admin'
<keescook> optionally, can someone set me as a reviewer?  :)
<ajmitch> keescook: depends on whether we can agree on a price
<LaserJock> whatever ajmitch's price I'll got $10 less ;-)
<LaserJock> s/got/go/
<StevenK> Then that case, ajmitch say $9.
* keescook fishes around in his leftover euro coins
<keescook> Sweet, I'll kick back 50% of the $1 profit to StevenK
<StevenK> Nice. :-)
<StevenK> Actually 50 euro cents probably won't even cover postage here. :-P
<keescook> d'oh
<keescook> ack, gotta sleep.  ttyl
<Fujitsu> Bye, keescook.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: This is going to rebound on them.
<ScottK> The patent thing.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: It had better.
<Fujitsu> But the FUD is likely to cause a lot of image damage to F/LOSS
<ScottK> Well I'd been working (in another Open Source project with a guy at MS on trying to get some common definitions on related stuff between our project and theirs.
<ajmitch> keescook: I was about to ask, do you have a revu account already?
<ajmitch> ah, found it
* ScottK just e-mailed him and told him I wasn't going to bother with it.
<ScottK> We
<ScottK> We'll go our way and stuff them (was more polite in the email).
<Fujitsu> Remember that Linux doesn't exist in 2007.
<ajmitch> keescook: done
<StevenK> ScottK: You shouldn't blame the guy just because of his choice of employer, surely?
<StevenK> Or is it a Microsoft project?
<ScottK> StevenK: I was polite, I just said that there was no will in the community to work with MS anymore.
<ScottK> It's a MS project
<StevenK> Ah, okay.
<Fujitsu> Ah, that's understandable then.
<StevenK> In that case, I agree with you.
<ScottK> There is some overlap between what they want to do and what we are doing.
<Fujitsu> Which project, may I ask?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: PM?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Sure.
<LaserJock> hmmm, how interesting
<LaserJock> checking for python module gtk... X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication.
<LaserJock> wow, how is it possible that we have so few Universe merges to do?
<StevenK> Because we're so talented and good looking.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: We had about 340 to start with.
<LaserJock> there are quite a few more Main merges than Universe
<ajmitch> because most people that work on main were at UDS
<ajmitch> and changes to packages to main are often more involved
* StevenK ought to find a few more main merges to do.
* ajmitch has a few to do
<StevenK> I had one that was mine, and I did it.
<LaserJock> I'm trying to do one now
<LaserJock> but neither the feisty or unstable sources build in my pbuilder
<StevenK> I'm pondering hitting up doko or mvo.
<superm1> LaserJock, did you get around to looking at that revu (or just its on the todo)?
<LaserJock> well, I was just trying to build it
<superm1> ah okay
<crimsun> speaking of which, superm1 seems like a good candidate, as he has done work with mythtv.
<superm1> candidate.....?
<crimsun> superm1: we're going to torture you with feathers.
<superm1> oh no, i'm going onto LaserJock's blog arent i.....
<superm1> :)
* LaserJock pulls out his "Harrass people in MOTU" book and marks down superm1 
<superm1> LaserJock, is there a standard questionaire to fill out, or a full out interview you do?
<tonyyarusso> Why is the dev I'm trying to work with MIA all the time...
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: time zones?
<LaserJock> superm1: I make it up as I go ;-)
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: nah, e-mail doesn't work either
<LaserJock> superm1: left a comment for you
<superm1> Thx LaserJock 
<LaserJock> superm1: it looks quite good packaging-wise
<superm1> i did clean up the license though - 
<superm1> and took out the update-alternatives that was unnecessary
<LaserJock> you sure you uploaded that?
<LaserJock> doh, I see it now
<superm1> were you looking at an older upload?
<LaserJock> kinda
<LaserJock> but you still have 1 more update-alternatives --remove
<LaserJock> I thought minghua's suggestion of doing a test for it first was good
<superm1> that one should be there
<superm1> the one that he was talking about removing was for an older named version
<superm1> that wasnt in use
<LaserJock> is anything in there CC?
<LaserJock> why was CC license in debian/copyright
<superm1> because the artwork was going to be CC
<superm1> but the author agreed to just make it GPL for simplicities sake
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> k, left another comment ;-)
<superm1> k thx
<superm1> LaserJock, how long would this feather torture take?  I was going to go to bed in ~20-30 min
<jmg> lawl
<LaserJock> superm1: I've got to go to bed to
<LaserJock> superm1: I'll probably email you within a few days
<superm1> okay
<LaserJock> I'm so busy playing catch-up at work
<superm1> :)
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu
* elkbuntu_ hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs elkbuntu back
<elkbuntu> how are you dear?
<crimsun> I'll be allowing my memberships to expire.
<dholbach> crimsun: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! pleeeeeeeease!
<dholbach> crimsun: when will that happen?
<dholbach> elkbuntu: quite good - thank you.... how are you?
<elkbuntu> dholbach, tired still ;)
<Fujitsu> Hi elkbuntu.
* elkbuntu pouts at crimsun
<crimsun> dholbach: tomorrow.
<Fujitsu> Nooooooooooooooooooo
<dholbach> crimsun: which membership is that?
* elkbuntu clutches to crimsun and whimpers
<crimsun> ubuntu-dev
<crimsun> and motu, too, apparently.
<dholbach> crimsun: are you going to re-apply at some stage?
<Fujitsu> dholbach: No, he's going to leave us to drown in ALSA.
<crimsun> dholbach: I'm not sure.  I'll continue to contribute through patches, but I need to step back drastically due to work and school.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: ALSA's just fine.  7.10 will have much improved support thanks to the legwork we've been putting in in #alsa.
<dholbach> crimsun: I hope all the best for you!
* dholbach hugs crimsun
<Fujitsu> :-/
<crimsun> man, you guys and gals are rockin'.  Ubuntu is going to continue to rock, so don't worry.  Besides, you're gaining persia and Scot.tK shortly!
<ajmitch> dholbach!
<dholbach> heya ajmitch
<TheMuso> Heya folks,.
<Fujitsu> Hey TheMuso..
<ajmitch> crimsun: your ubuntu-dev/motu membership may expire, but that means nothing for your upload rights
<crimsun> ajmitch: moot issue, since I'll be feeding patches as I have time (which is the real killer for me)
<ajmitch> you have until 2008-06-05
<TheMuso> crimsun: Sorry to see you go. You have been a great help to the Ubuntu develoment community.
<TheMuso> More to the point, a great assett.
<ajmitch> definitely
<ajmitch> crimsun: we couldn't have got here without you
<crimsun> TheMuso: I'm not disappearing, just abiding by the Code to state I'm not going to be able to lift for a while.
<elkbuntu> we all know he'll be back. they aaaalways come back ;)
<TheMuso> crimsun: Ok, but even so.
<Treenaks> hey Burgundavia 
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: still in Seville?
<Burgundavia> naw, Madrid
<siretart> Burgundavia: how's madrid?
<Burgundavia> nice
<Burgundavia> cooler than Sevilla and cheaper
<siretart> :)
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia, siretart 
<Burgundavia> I see that gutsy changes is rocking again now that everybody is home
<siretart> hi ajmitch & Treenaks 
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<highvoltage> hey ajmitch, Burgundavia and siretart
<ajmitch> uh oh, it's highvoltage 
* highvoltage !!!!!
<Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
* siretart hugs highvoltage 
<Burgundavia> I need to move to this timezone
<Burgundavia> so much more stuff happens
<highvoltage> siretart: thanks, you can let go now :)
<siretart> hrhr
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: heh, and here I thought that more stuff happens in the US timezone :)
<Burgundavia> nope
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: you.. hobbsee.. everyone wants to move to Europe ;)
<Burgundavia> now I just need an interesting job
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: lots of those over here ;)
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: an interesting job can be both a blessing and a curse
<Burgundavia> oh indeed
<Treenaks> highvoltage: 'May you live in interesting times' :)_
* highvoltage wouldn't have it any other way though
<Burgundavia> may you work for an interesting company
<highvoltage> Treenaks: yes :)
<imbrandon> moins all
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<Treenaks> ajmitch: no, you're ajmitch :)
* imbrandon is sadened by the news from crimsun but totaly understands, there /are/ other things in life besides Ubuntu , as much as we sometimes would like to not think so
<ajmitch> imbrandon: really?
<imbrandon> crimsun, good luck and hopefully your heiatus(sp?) is toooo long :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hehehe
<imbrandon> /s/is/isnt
<ranf> hi
<ranf> Are there any simple jobs to do? For a starter like me. 
<crimsun> ranf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO , see the bitesize ones
<ranf> crimsun, I'll go looking...
<ranf> bug #113368 I can confirm. The debian version has this bug too. Should I file this bug in Debian BTS?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113368 in proftpd-dfsg "Proftpd 1.3.0 (Ubuntu 7.0.4) Standard Config File wrong (Typo) at section "RequireValidShells"" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113368
<ranf> I've already made a dpatch for it.
<imbrandon> ranf, sure
<ranf> imbrandon, k on my way.
<wolfeon> man
<wolfeon> I've been telling myself I'd file the python-fam bug all this week :/
<wolfeon> I've been wanting to make a patch/package for updating... :(
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<proppy> how dy ? :)
<dholbach> quite good - how are you?
* wolfeon needs a glass of Ubuntu juice
<proppy> dholbach: nice, (installing poker server for peoples)
<proppy> i looked forward automation of apt,
<proppy> cause debootstrap can't resolve dependency when asked to install additional package
<proppy> there is some interactive stuff i can't skip (even with DEB_FRONTEND=noninteractive)
<proppy> maybe i should give python-apt a try
<proppy> i believe that's what apport-retrace use for creating chroot ?
<siretart> dholbach: I just wanted to tell you that I've starting mentoring a hopeful using bzr branches on launchpad. works great so far
<dholbach> siretart: woah - that's great news
<dholbach> siretart: I'm going to write up a proposal for the mentoring process later and ask for comments on the list
<slomo> bluekuja: the farsight plugins are just broken, don't worry about them anymore :)
<bluekuja> slomo: ok great :)
<slomo> bluekuja: not great... annoying :)
<bluekuja> slomo :D
<bluekuja> slomo: tell me when it will be fixed
<slomo> bluekuja: when we have gstreamer/gst-plugins-base 0.10.13 and there is a new gst-plugins-farsight release :)
<bluekuja> slomo: ok then :)
<imbrandon> gawd i love google
<togr> hi
<togr> I reported bug  #113803 on launchpad
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113803 in python-scientific "Python-netcdf crashes in Feisty" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113803
<togr> and I was going to test the fix
<togr> tips/howto on building packages from deb-src + patches?
<togr> tips/howto on building packages from deb-src + patches?
<Lutin> togr: ?
<togr> hi
<togr> Lutin, I reported bug  #113803 on launchpad
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113803 in python-scientific "Python-netcdf crashes in Feisty" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113803
<togr> and I was going to test the fix
<togr> now I'm looking for tips/howto on building packages from deb-src + patches?
<ranf> togr, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingBasics 
<togr> thanks, looks like just what I was looking for
<medoc92> Hello. I have submitted a package for recoll http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4933 . It's been sitting there so long that someone later/recently submitted a debian package now in unstable http://packages.qa.debian.org/r/recoll.html . Does this means that the one on revu should now be updated and based on the debian one ? 
<StevenK> medoc92: Yup.
<pochu> or simply request a sync :)
<medoc92> pochu: what is "request a sync" ? What of the revu entry then ?
<pochu> medoc92: since the package is already in Debian, we can import it. That's a sync from Debian
<pochu> medoc92: you can still take care of that package (bug reports, packaging issues, report bugs to debian and upstream...)
<medoc92> pochu: Ok, I "request a sync" then. Is this enough ? :) I guess that the entry on revu needs to be nuked too.
<pochu> medoc92: I don't know whether the revu entry should be removed
<pochu> medoc92: maybe a revu admin knows it :)
<pochu> medoc92: oh, and it's enough, yes ;)
<xxxxx1> morning!
<medoc92> pochu: thanks
<pochu> medoc92: you're welcome
<ScottK> togr: Did you find what you need?
<ScottK> wolfeon: Did you file your python-fam bug?
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<togr> ScottK, I think so yes
<ScottK> togr: OK.  Let us know.  Now that there is a fix in Gutsy, there may be a move to give Feisty an update since the bug causes a crash.  That'll need testing too.
<togr> I can test the fix without adding packages for Gutsy, right?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> Download the source package from Gutsy, and then compile and install it locally.
<ScottK> Within the Debian package management system that isn't actually very hard.
<togr> so I do as in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingBasics, replacing edgy with gutsy_
<togr> ?
* ScottK looks to make sure
<ScottK> There's a shortcut you can take.
* ScottK gets a url.
<ScottK> togr: Download the script at http://revu.tauware.de/~laserjock/pbuilder-feisty and after installing the pbuilder pacakge run it as sh /path to script/pbuilder-feisty create
<ScottK> Then run it as sh /path to script/pbuilder build packagename-version.dsc
<ScottK> You'll also need to get the updated source.
<togr> run it as pbuilder-feisty or pbuilder-gutsy?
<ScottK> feisty
<togr> (maybe I should just try it)
<ScottK> You want to build the package to run on Feisty, right?
<davromaniak> hi here
<togr> yes
<togr> ah
<davromaniak> anybody knows how to add backports repo in a pbuilder ???
<ScottK> You can get the source using dget =x http://librarian.launchpad.net/7655629/python-scientific_2.4.11-1ubuntu1.dsc
<ScottK> davromaniak: Generically you open up a pbuilder session, edit the pbuilder namespace's sources.list and then exit saving changes.  I don't have the exact procedure.
<davromaniak> ok
<togr> hmm, setting up pbuilder is not trivial I see
<davromaniak> I'm gonna try to customize my .pbuilderrc with OTHERMIRROR
<Fujitsu> It's pretty close to trivial.
<togr> easy to do -- but involves getting lots of packages anew
<ScottK> togr: There's a lot of stuff that happens, but fortunately you don't have to to much of it.
<togr> ScottK, exactly.  "trivial" can mean different things
<togr> hope I have the disk space for this
<ScottK> BTW, togr, welcome.  I'm glad my comment on the bug was sufficient to get you here.
<joejaxx> Good Morning MOTU
<togr> ;-)
<ScottK> Good morning joejaxx
<joejaxx> ScottK: hello :)
<Amaranth> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294638@N02/499352340/in/set-72157600219769319/
<Amaranth> spooky
<Amaranth> ;)
<togr> ScottK, for 'sh pbuilder build pname-version.dsc', is it important what name the pbuilder script has?
<togr> e.g. should it still be named 'pbuilder-feisty'?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> You can copy the same script and use if for multiple releases by changing it's name.
* ScottK has pbuilder-dapper, edgy, feisty, gutsy, sarge, and sid.
<ScottK> Note that there's a slightly modified script in the same location for the Debian pbuilders.
<ScottK> It points at their repos and not Ubuntu's.
<togr> so building occurs in a separate environment
<togr> which has to contain all packages relevant to the current build
<togr> I guess next pbuild will see a more complete environment...
<ScottK> Yes.  When you pbuild you know you are always building in a clean environment.
<togr> neat -- and I see how that could be useful
<togr> although being a bit pressed for disk space ...
<StevenK> ScottK: I have a pdebuild-multi script and symlink to it.
<ScottK> You also know that only the packages that you can safely assume to be present or that are called out as a build dependency will be available, so it's a good way to make sure your build-depends are correct.
<togr> ah -- that's neat
<ScottK> StevenK: Did you add it to the dev tools project?
* StevenK is finally declares "Rails is my bitch"
<StevenK> ScottK: No, should I have? :-)
<ScottK> If it'd be useful for other's, I'd think so.
<ScottK> TheMuso, iirc, added laserjock's pbuilder scripts to it.
<TheMuso> ScottK: What script you thinking of adding
<StevenK> I wrote pdebuild-multi, pl-multi and pbuilder-upgrade because I know exactly what they do.
<ScottK> TheMuso: StevenK said he had a pdebuild-multi script
<TheMuso> ScottK: Ah ok.
<togr> ScottK, you mentioned 'dget' above
<ScottK> yes
<StevenK> Besides, pl-gutsy is less typing than pbuilder-gutsy login
<togr> I don't seem to have it
<togr> what does it do?
<StevenK> togr: Install 'devscripts'
<StevenK> togr: It downloads a source package for you, given the URL to the .dsc
<ScottK> togr: What he said.
<ScottK> togr: dget -x will unpack the source tarball and apply the debian diff so you have a complete source package ready to update, build, etc.
<togr> excellent.  So '=x' above should be '-x'?
<ScottK> Yes.  Dunno how I typed that before.
<togr> http://librarian.launchpad.net/7655629/python-scientific_2.4.11.orig.tar.gz -> 404 Not Found
<StevenK> No, it won't work for librarian links.
<StevenK> The librarian is ... special
<togr> now, I have the file python-scientific_2.4.11-1ubuntu1.dsc
<togr> but it does not list the source or patch files
<StevenK> It, uh, ought to.
<togr> Source: python-scientific
<ScottK> togr: My bad I guess.  I didn't know about the specialness of librarian files
<togr> bah
<StevenK> It isn't that, it's that the URL for every file is different which defeats how dgets downloads them.
<togr> forget the last
<togr> was thrown off track by the MD5 signatures
<togr> :-P
<togr> so a regular apt-get then?
<togr> for the source, I mean
<ScottK> togr: Plan B: Go here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-scientific/2.4.11-1ubuntu1 and get the orig.tar.gz and diff.gz files
<ScottK> togr: Then use dpkg-source -x packagname-version.dsc to extract the source package.
<ScottK> togr: Or you could change you deb-src line for universe to gutsy, apt-get update, and then apt-get source if you want.
<ScottK> That'll work too.
<togr> maybe not today
<togr> I feel I'm changing enough things right now
<ScottK> Understand.
* togr used to know how to build RPMs
<togr> but here everything is slightly different ;-)
<StevenK> I'm lucky enough to never have learnt that particular skill.
<togr> do I need to do dpkg-source -x or will that happen in the build root as part of pbuilder?
<ScottK> Dunno, never tried it.
<ScottK> That is never tried to pbuild unextracted source package.
<togr> ok, it is building
<StevenK> togr: You can either unpack it and run pdebuild, or not and run pbuilder-<> build <.dsc file>
<togr> ok -- used the latter now
<togr> now where did the resulting packages end up?
<StevenK> togr: /var/cache/pbuilder/result , probably
<ranf> ~/pbuilder with laserjocks script
<StevenK> Typical.
<togr> yes, ~/pbuilder it is
<togr> ok, final step is to install the new python-scientific packages instead of the previous ones
<togr> the previous ones were 2.4.11-1build1
<togr> the ones just built are 2.4.11-1ubuntu1
<togr> fantastic
<togr> !
<togr> thanks all
<togr> gotta run
<\sh> is anyone able to run an X client inside a newly created debootstrap via dchroot?
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<pgquiles> I am trying to package a library using debhelper but I am doing something is wrong. dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot installs files fine in debian/tmp/usr/lib and debian/tmp/usr/share, but then they are not copied to mylib/usr/lib, mylib/usr/share, mylib-dev/usr/lib and mylib-dev/usr/share. I am following http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=51003. I do have debian/mylib.install and debian/mylib-dev.install
<persia> \sh: My dchroot works against schroot LVM snapshots, but dchroot -d -c gutsy 'sudo apt-get install spider; spider' worked fine.
<Lutin> togr--: why are you telling me this ?
* ScottK just hit send on the message to MOTU council.
<ScottK> Of course I thought about subscribing to the list AFTER I sent it, not before, so it needs releasing from the moderation queue....
<superm1> ScottK, does this mean you'll be able to do some revu's for me soon..... :P
<ScottK> superm1: Only if I get accepted.
<superm1> well best of luck to you, i'm fairly confident you of all applicants will be get accepted
<superm1> from the work i've seen in the channel and such
<ScottK> Thanks.
<pochu> good luck ScottK
<ScottK> Thanks
<dholbach> siretart: ROCK!
<siretart> ?
<dholbach> MOTU/NewMentoring!
<siretart> dholbach: ah. I'm already mentoring xxxxx1, so my first slot is already taken ;)
<dholbach> once the front desk is up and running, they'll surely consider that :)
<asac> dholbach: hope that we won't end up with a complete NM process at some point :-P
<siretart> dholbach: do we already have ppl for frontdesk?
<siretart> asac: no, I will personally make sure it won't
<dholbach> siretart: no, not yet - would you be interested in working on that team?
<siretart> dholbach: I think I would do so, at least in the beginning
<dholbach> siretart: I think it'd be good to have people who know a bunch of *-dev members already
<dholbach> siretart: and it'd be good to have people do the front desk for a year
<dholbach> asac: I prefer a light weight process for that
<dholbach> siretart: maybe we should add a "i'm interested in working on the front desk" section to that page
* dholbach adds it
<asac> i like the idea to have a dedicated mentor, so we can better keep track of prospective motus progress
<siretart> hm, I think the MOTU Council should just appoint two persons
<dholbach> asac: definitively agreed
<siretart> asac: that's the point of the FD. to have a single point where interested people can go to and dispatch them to hopefully well suited mentors
<siretart> asac: I hope we can establish good communication as soon as possible in the application process
<asac> however, will there be a time-constraint? otherwise i fear that you will end up with an ever increasing amount of students :)
<siretart> asac: every mentor has to say how many slots (== applicants) he is willing to take. if there are no free slots, we need to see what to do then
<asac> i mean we need a mechanism that cleans up slots automatically :)
<siretart> asac: as FD I'd ask existing mentors to recheck their applicants to see if we find a free slot somewhere
<StevenK> This smacks of Debian NM a little much for my liking.
<Burgundavia> I know, we can use LP!
* ScottK agrees with StevenK.  
<siretart> StevenK: no, debian's NM process is a bunch of annoying queue where you wait for nothing to happen
* ScottK likes the current system.
<asac> as long as there are no rules of how to proceed its just a "mentoring" programm
<StevenK> siretart: Ooooh, bitter much?
<asac> dholbach: maybe we should not use words already wasted in debian nm, like "frontdesk"
* ScottK is generally against process stuff anyway.
<dholbach> asac: if you have a better word, please change it in the proposal
<StevenK> I agree with ScottK - I like the current system.
<StevenK> People come here and beg and we help them.
<dholbach> but there are a lot of people who need the guidance of a dedicated mentor
<asac> dholbach: reception :-P
<siretart> StevenK: I went through the process there. I do know it ;)
<dholbach> I got ~90 mentoring requests in the last year
<StevenK> siretart: So do I.
<dholbach> most of those were not comfortable joining #ubuntu-motu and fighting their way through documentation and long todo lists
<StevenK> siretart: And I've been a DD since mid 2001, and I know it used to be worse.
<dholbach> ScottK: I added a blurb saying that "jumping right in and helping out" is appreciated and absolutely OK
<dholbach> so this is not a mandatory process
<ScottK> dholbach: OK.  I don't mind adding structure for people who need/want it.  Just want to avoid requiring it.
<siretart> StevenK: I'm not very comfortable to give newcomers a huge lot of (excellent) documentation to read and expect them to immediately produce excellent packages
<dholbach> ScottK: agreed
<StevenK> Is this going to augment things like MOTU School?
<StevenK> Or replace?
<siretart> StevenK: I'd prefer to assign applicatants to a person who cares for them and reviews what he is doing. this way we get much better application reports for the MOTU Council as well
<dholbach> asac: "reception" if fine with me
<siretart> StevenK: I think this is going to assist MOTU School
<ScottK> siretart: What I've mostly been doing is walking people through the process one or two times on IRC for bug fixes and then they charge off on their own.
<dholbach> yes
<StevenK> siretart: Oh, absolutely agreed. Debian packaging is subtle enough that it requires a bit of time.
<StevenK> siretart: Can I suggest the term 'saint' instead of 'mentor' Since they might require the patience of? :-P
<ScottK> All people need is enough to do a little bit on their own they they can generally bootstrap themselves after that with some guidance and feedback.
* dholbach does not qualify as 'saint' ;-)
<ScottK> sensei
<StevenK> dholbach: Yup. I have a few bug reports of yours as evidence. :-P
<psusi> is it just me or is debconf not used much these days?
<siretart> what's the problem with 'mentor'? is it too overloaded? if yes, by which?
<dholbach> ScottK: the more they bootstrap themselves, the better - but it's nice to have a good and light weight process running, which helps them through the worst
<dholbach> StevenK: hehe :)
<dholbach> please leave more comments on the wiki page
<ScottK> siretart: I'd say it's overloaded as what is proposed here for mentor is (I think) not quite the same as what Debian means by mentor.
<dholbach> so our conversation in here doesn't get lost
<StevenK> psusi: Of the 1,346 packages installed on my machine, 871 import the debconf confmodule in their postinst.
<psusi> ohh wow
<StevenK> psusi: So it's just you. :-P
<psusi> last time I did a dpkg-reconfigure it didn't find that many packages to configure
<siretart> ScottK: debian calls it 'AM' (application manager)
<StevenK> But why would you do that?
<psusi> to see what there was to change ;)
<ScottK> siretart: Thanks.  I'm not an expert on the Debian NM process (learned enough to decide it's more trouble than it's worth for me).
<StevenK> Okay, can we stop drawing parallels between this process and NM? They have completly seperates goals and problems they are trying to solve.
<siretart> dholbach: regarding the discussion about the file format, I think we should go with a CSV file, at least at the beginning
<dholbach> WFM
<psusi> I'm going to try and help fix a conflicted merge generated by mom.... I'm used to doing three way merges on windows with tortoiseSVN... how can you do that in linux?
<StevenK> psusi: diff3
<dholbach> I updated the page with some of the comments
<psusi> isn't that just the command line diff?  not a gui side by side viewer?
<dholbach> please add whatever I forgot
<StevenK> Correct.
<siretart> we can easily convert CSV to everything, and it is easily editable by texteditors. even merges and diffs work fine with them
<psusi> right... so how do I view the diff3 output then? ;)
<siretart> psusi: if you use emacs, have a look at the 'ediff' package. You might also try out 'meld'
<dholbach> siretart: WFM
<siretart> (which is a standalone gtk application)
<psusi> hrm... ok... guess I'll have to start learning ediff
<StevenK> psusi: There is also fldiff, imediff2, kompare, mgdiff, tkdiff, xfdiff and xxdiff.
<dothebart> ajmitch: did you reload the keychain?
<dothebart> i forgot to do the email decryption...
<psusi> wow
<dothebart> StevenK: don't you forget meld.
<ScottK> psusi: There's also print them out, line them up side by side, and get out your pen (but I'm really old compared to everyone else here - AFAIK).
<StevenK> dothebart: That was pointed out previously, along with ediff.
<dothebart> ah ok... 
<StevenK> ScottK: Do you do merges with scissors and glue, too?
<psusi> lol
<ScottK> StevenK: Not in about 25 years, but I may be about to re-adopt the process to figure out the latest clamav merge.
<StevenK> Bwaha
<StevenK> I've started keeping state in a text editor for larger merges.
<StevenK> bacula required roughly 50 lines of notes
<StevenK> Anyway, time to sleep.
<ScottK> Good night StevenK
<StevenK> Night!
<dholbach> night StevenK
<siretart> dholbach: would you volunteer to work in FD?
<dholbach> yes, but it'd be nice if it was somebody else for once :)
<dholbach> but yeah, I'd do it
<siretart> I was thinking about writing some lines about mentoring based on the experience I make with xxxxx1 right now
<dholbach> good idea
<siretart> I'll be at LUG-Camp starting from tomorrow until sunday. I won't be offline, but I don't know how stable my internet connection will be
<siretart> I'll start writing some notes there and share it with you
<dholbach> thanks alot siretart
<Daviey> Hi, can i have to use debhelper for packages submitted to REVU?
<Daviey> that should read "Do i have to...2
<siretart> Daviey: depends on your reviewer ;)
<siretart> serious: as long as you don't use yada, I think it'll be fine
<Daviey> Can i use the structure for: dpkg-deb --build
<siretart> that sounds crackful
<Daviey> I'm building a package that does little more than extract to a location
<siretart> Daviey: like in shipping data or like in shipping precompiled binaries?
<Daviey> siretart, two packages in mind - one is just a shell script | font package
<siretart> Daviey: how about contributing them to an existing package instead?
<Daviey> can't see how?!
<siretart> sorry?
<Daviey> One package is an application shell script | a replacement for msttcorefonts
<Daviey> replacement being GPL/OFL pack
<Burgundavia> you talking about the liberation fonts?
<Daviey> yep
<Daviey> Burgundavia,  I'm currently trying to package the liberation fonts - then have another package that depends on 'liberation fonts' that creates symlinks to the ms font names
<siretart> I'd rather make the two one package
<Daviey> Shoudn't msttcorefonts and liberation fonts be able to co-exsist tho?
<Daviey> the fake package i was planning on 'replacing' msttcorefonts and depending on liber' fonts
<ScottK> Daviey: Please don't do that.  As a user of msttcorefonts I'd want to try them out side by side for a while first.
<Loic> Hi
<ScottK> Hello
<Loic> I've got a question about SRU : when the SRU is approved, the fix commited and the new package has been in proposed for more than a week with more than 2 people saying it works for them
<Loic> What should I do know to get the package moved in  universe?
<ScottK> Loic: What package?
<Loic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xvidcore/+bug/84705
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 84705 in xvidcore "[Feisty]  libxvidcore missing dependency for yasm for i386 arch : more than 3 times slower than in edgy" [Medium,Fix committed]  
<Loic> libxvidcore4
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> Loic: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU - Tag the package verification-motu-done
<ScottK> Loic: I think then imbrandon should subscribe ubuntu-sru if he's satisfied.
<Loic> Thank you
<Loic> Done :) . imbrandon could you please subscribe ubuntu-sru if you're ok with the package?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<pochu> hi bddebian :)
<pochu> bddebian: padawans FTW! :)
<bddebian> Hi pochu. :-)
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<welshbyte> well as long as we don't have any Anakin Skywalkers in our midst... :)
<leonel> hello motus !
<leonel> patches !  patches  give me  patches  i need patches ...
<leonel> jeje
<joejaxx> everyone took all the bitsized bugs from me :(
<joejaxx> :P
<pochu> leonel: are you on crack? :)
<leonel> I'm on bugs ...
<pochu> :-)
<pochu> Lutin, Adri2000: ping
<ScottK> leonel: How's Dapper going?
<Loic> About xvidcore4, I subscribed ubuntu-sru to the bug. However, I just checked gutsy and the bug is there as well. Will the fix be automatically ported for gutsy or do I have to do something?
<ScottK> Loic: You have to do something.
<pochu> Loic: you need to fix gutsy first
<pochu> otherwise, the sru won't be approved, afaik
<ScottK> pochu: He already fixed Feisty
* joejaxx wishes tha launchpad made a distinction between feisty and gutsy for bugs
<pochu> did he?
<ScottK> Not in this case.
<joejaxx> that*
<ScottK> Yes
* pochu has seen other SRUs rejected because the development version wasn't fixed yet
<ScottK> Loic: I just nominate the bug for Feisty and Gutsy.  Once a MOTU approves that, you'll be able to track status for each release separately.
<ScottK> pochu: Yes, it happens, but not this time...
<pochu> ScottK: oks :)
<ScottK> Loic: You need to make a proper debdiff for the Gutsy package to and attach that to the bug.
<Loic> Yuck
<sacater> hey all, when is gutsy beta due out?
<sacater> im gonna run it on my new laptop :D
<Loic> YuckYuckyuckYuckYuck
<pochu> sacater: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<sacater> pochu: thanks mate :D
<Loic> If I make a debdiff for gutsy, will I have to do the same for gutsy+1?
<ScottK> Loic: All you should need to do is change +xvidcore (2:1.1.2-0.1ubuntu1.1~proposed1) feisty-proposed; urgency=low to +xvidcore (2:1.1.2-0.1ubuntu2) gutsy; urgency=low
<Loic> ok
<sacater> pochu: oh and btw, laptop scare is off, I have one now, not new, not fast, but it does the job :P
<ScottK> Loic: No, once it's in the development tree you're done.
<Loic> Thanks. Can I just manually modify my debdiff or do I have to rerun the process again?
<pochu> sacater: cool :)
<bddebian> welshbyte: :-)
<ScottK> Loic: If you are careful, since it doesn't affect the number of lines in the diff, you should be able to do it manually.
<Loic> Thx :)
<leonel> ScottK: in an hour approx  I'll start  with dapper so it must be done TODAY !
<ScottK> leonel: Great.  You are doing good work.
<ScottK> Loic: Note that make sure what I put above makes sense.  I didn't study it as carefully as I would if I were doing it myself.
<Loic> No, it should be ok, it was just about a missing dependency
<leonel> ScottK:  had good  teachers :)
<ScottK> leonel: Thanks.
<Loic> Btw, does anyone know Power PC and other architectures than i386/x64 to tell me if there's any reason not to have xvidcore4 depend on yasm in these architectures?
<ScottK> Loic: Investigating that question fully would be a good reason to wait on the Gutsy debdiff until you know ...
<Adri2000> pochu: pong
<ScottK> Anyone looking for Main SRU practice might want to look at Bug #62255
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 62255 in pptpd "pptpd on edgy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62255
<Loic> Actually, I'm not even sure it needs so much investigation. Previous packages depended on yasm on all architectures, and the restriction to x64 was apparently just a blunder
<Loic> How should I investigate for other arch since I don't have PPC or other? Is there a mailing list or better an irc channel?
<Loic> I'll be trying in  #ubuntu-powerpc...
<pochu> Adri2000: the REPORT for amule is 0 bytes, though it says it hasn't found any error, and Ubuntu has a big patch:
<pochu> http://dad.dunnewind.net/amule/
<Adri2000> pochu: http://dad.dunnewind.net/amule/REPORT ? that works here
<pochu> Adri2000: sorry, I mean http://dad.dunnewind.net/amule/amule_2.1.3-2ubuntu1.patch
<pochu> Adri2000: it shouldn't be empty, right?
<Adri2000> right
<Adri2000> I'm looking
<pochu> thanks
<Adri2000> pochu: there is something wrong that's sure... it may be related to the last change (which fixes the 0ubuntuX only bug), I'll review the code and talk with Lutin about it
<pochu> Adri2000: thanks, and please let me know how it goes :)
<Adri2000> pochu: yep, np
<wolfeon> ScottK: not yet
<wolfeon> ScottK: soon though :)
<jussi01> gah, am i stupid or something?
<jussi01> can someone find me all the bugs which are tagged needs packaging?
<joejaxx> jussi01: you mean packages people want in universe?
<jussi01> joejaxx: yes...
<jussi01> joejaxx: I need a new something to do...
<joejaxx> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream=&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.om
<jussi01> :D
<joejaxx> there you go
<joejaxx> jussi01: :P
<jussi01> tanks
<joejaxx> jussi01: you are most welcome
<jussi01> joejaxx: that gives me a weird, huge list.... :(
<Adri2000> jussi01: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?field.tags=needs-packaging
<joejaxx> jussi01: yes but i thought you wanted packages that people wanted packaged? :(
<Adri2000> err
<jussi01> joejaxx: yeah, but what you gave me isnt that :(
<joejaxx> jussi01: it is for me
<Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
<joejaxx> jussi01: it says needs packaging all the way down the list
<jussi01> joejaxx: lol it just gives me almost every bug reported...
<jussi01> Adri2000: thanks... thats the one.... :D
<joejaxx> interesting
<joejaxx> i wonder why that is
<jussi01> joejaxx: could be kde's fault...
<pochu> joejaxx: 1   75  of 42803 results
<joejaxx> ah
<joejaxx> lol
<pochu> jussi01: I guess that's not kde, but a bad link :)
<jussi01> :D
<joejaxx> actually that is the link off the motu todo page :P
<Lutin> pochu: around ?
<pochu> Lutin: yep :)
<Lutin> pochu: that was about the amule bug..when have you noticed it for the first time ?
<pochu> Lutin: this evening
<pochu> Lutin: the amule merge has been added recently
<pochu> maybe today
<pochu> so I looked to the report, and after that looked at the patch
<Lutin> ok
<pochu> which, surprisingly, was empty
<Lutin> pochu: amule wasn't on the list before that ?
<pochu> Lutin: before what?
<Lutin> pochu: before you noticed the bug. I mean, as it been added today ?
<pochu> Lutin: I've noticed the bug today with amule, don't know when it was added :)
<Lutin> pochu: ok
<pochu> but it's been added recently, since my unique merge was wesnoth
<AnAnt> Hello, 
<joejaxx> hello
<Hobbsee> hiya
<bddebian> Heya AnAnt
* Hobbsee wonders if there are even any merges left to do.
<AnAnt> bddebian: how  r u ?
<AnAnt> how can I add a menu icon for a package ? menu file ?
<bddebian>  .desktop file
<AnAnt> bddebian: is there a dh_* command to install it ?
<bddebian> AnAnt: The desktop file or the icon?
<AnAnt> bddebian: the desktop file
<bddebian> AnAnt: Does the package already have one?
<AnAnt> bddebian: no, I will create one, I am doing a menu file now btw
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee, heh. Just checking out the photo in which you are being carried to the pool
<tuxmaniac> :-)
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: heh.
* Hobbsee still needs to shoot people, over that
<Hobbsee> they threatened to throw me in the pool all week
<Hobbsee> attempted to break me in doing so, too...
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee, hahah. Mitrandir and Seveas right?
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: Seveas and ajmitch 
<bddebian> AnAnt: You can use install, dh_install, cp, mv whatever to stick the .desktop file in /usr/share/applications
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: mithrandir kinda glared at them and got them to stop
<AnAnt> bddebian: ok, thanks
<Seveas> Mithrandir has evil glare
<Seveas> and Hobbsee has an evil death stare
<Hobbsee> and i have the death stare.
<welshbyte> some packages use the desktop-file-install tool but it seems to me like it's only useful if you need to munge it a bit in transit
<xxxxx1> hello bddebian !
<Seveas> Hobbsee, and still I survived :)
<tuxmaniac> Seveas, heh. I can see the *death* stare :-) 
<Hobbsee> Seveas: so far
<tuxmaniac> Seveas, btw thanks for ubotu in #ubuntu-in :-)
<Seveas> Hobbsee, well, we're now pretty much at opposite ends of this planet 
<bddebian> Heya xxxxx1
<Seveas> I feel reasonably safe
<AnAnt> bddebian: is that the only way to add menu icons ?
<AnAnt> bddebian: I find some apps I got here that don't have .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/
<bddebian> AnAnt: You are talking about the gnome menu right?
<AnAnt> bddebian: yup
<etteyafed> I am working on a kernel module management GUI for gnome and I would like to get the ball rolling on having the .deb looked at. It needs a bit of work still but its ready for inspection I think. Anyone here that can point me in a direction?
<tsmithe> rargh i hate it when people don't research things...! (including me)
* tsmithe explains later
<tsmithe> stupid wired
<tsmithe> and debian
<tsmithe> rargh
<sharms> bryyce: with regards to 1.3 and fglrx -- I think by the time gutsy is released, there will be a brand new fglrx out
<sharms> bryyce: they currently have a closed (nda) beta for a total rewrite of the driver
<jussi01> tsmithe: lol
<bddebian> AnAnt: Well it's the only way I know of so you got me there.
<ScottK> !REVU | etteyafed
<ubotu> etteyafed: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<AnAnt> bddebian: ok, thanks
<etteyafed> sorry... I know this info is available someplace (i looked at before).
<bryyce> sharms: yes I hope so
<tepsipakki> sharms: "total rewrite" doesn't sound too good :)
<tepsipakki> although it can only get better
<joejaxx> does anyone have an example of a developmental build naming schema for the ubuntu discs?
<joejaxx> s/a/the/g
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: define "ubuntu discs"
<sharms> tepsipakki: I believe they intend on fully supporting AIGLX etc
<joejaxx> i know final is ubuntu-releaseversion-alternative-arch.iso
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: ^
<pochu> tepsipakki: was -intel ready for a sync, of does it need a merge? :)
<joejaxx> s/alternative/alternate/g
<Hobbsee> the dailies are the same, arent they?
<leonel> ScottK: dapper's squirrelmail  patched in the source  now  to check all  build deb test  all again  and  upload the  debdiff ..
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: i do not know
<sharms> tepsipakki: nda prevents that from being verified
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: i think they're all named the same, so people can rsync
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: i am talking specifically about the herd/tribe/flight type discs
<ScottK> leonel: Sounds good.
<tepsipakki> pochu: needs a merge, git commits are not yet released which should make it syncable
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: i'd look them up on cdimage.ubuntu.com
<ranf> pochu, I didn't say don't sync. Just give Petter some time to catch up.
<tepsipakki> sharms: ok..
<pochu> Hobbsee: weren't you asking for merges a while ago? -intel is yours! :)
<Hobbsee> pochu: i knwo :(
* Hobbsee shakes the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  at Mithrandir
<pochu> Hobbsee: if you don't want to do it, I can take a look :)
<Hobbsee> i'll look
<Hobbsee> i do actually need to do a merge, at some point
<pochu> Hobbsee: cool, thanks!
<Hobbsee> i couldnt eyeball it during UDS, and havent looked again
<Hobbsee> while i was in session
<tepsipakki> kylem told me that -i810 isn't going to be dropped yet
<tepsipakki> "too risky"
<pochu> tepsipakki: we can include -intel in main at least :)
<tepsipakki> what's the point if -i810 ends up being used
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: they are named until release, at which point the iso name has the version number
<psusi> can anyone give me some help with emacs ediff?  I can't figure out which frigging end is up
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: yeah but what about the herds/flights/etc
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: what about them?
<Burgundavia> they are named consistently
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: i thought those specified them in the iso name
<Burgundavia> afaik, no
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> interesting
<psusi> siretart: ping
<jussi01> hei, so just as a quick final check, where should i be looking to make sure that a package is not already being packaged...
<jussi01> ??
<joejaxx> the repos
<joejaxx> and revu
<sacater> er
<sacater> okay
<joejaxx> and debian
<sacater> I am a little bit worried...
<jussi01> heh...debian, where......
<joejaxx> jussi01: packages.debian.org
<jussi01> ok
<joejaxx> sacater: why what happened?
<sacater> my syslog@trinity my (laptop), just messaged me with write..... but it was informal...
<sacater> like it knew me
<xxxxx1> jussi01: check the queue too
<psusi> StevenK: ping
<sacater> and even gave me some errors on my CPU0
<Hobbsee> psusi: asleep
<sacater> where are write logs kept?
<jussi01> xxxxx1: queue?
<psusi> blast...
<joejaxx> sacater: that is funny
<joejaxx> lol
<sacater> no its not
<sacater> quite the opposite
<sacater> for 2 reasons
<sacater> 1, someone could have access to my machine
<joejaxx> true
<sacater> 2, they got into sys
<psusi> anyone else use emacs ediff?  I can't for the live of me get the damn thing to compare two whole directories instead of only a specific file in them that I know has changed
<sacater> joejaxx: when my computer talks to me, it is very disturbing
<sacater> it also said about hardware faults
<sacater> but 'Uhhuh'
<sacater> like it was agreeing...
<joejaxx> sacater: well yeah if it does not have a AI
<sacater> i am SERIOUSLY worried...
<joejaxx> sacater: time to start auditting for you :\
<sacater> where are write logs kept
<sacater> if any
<xxxxx1> jussi01: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue
<xxxxx1> jussi01: packages in *NEW*
<jussi01> so i assume that this isnt being packaged / already packaged? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=420237
<ubotu> Debian bug 420237 in wnpp "RFP: mnemosyne -- spaced repitition flash-card program" [Wishlist,Open]  
<ScottK> jussi01: Debian has a pseudo package called WNPP where people file intent to package bugs.  
<ScottK> Yeah.  Like that one.
<jussi01> xxxxx1: is that not the same as revu archive?
<Hobbsee> jussi01: not necessarily
<jussi01> oh
<jussi01> ok then
<ScottK> jussi01: That's a request for the package, not an intent to package.
<jussi01> ok, so I could package it and not worry about dual efforts then... (like last time...)
<jussi01> ??
<ScottK> jussi01: No guarantees, but I'd expect if someone started working on it in Debian, they'd have commented on that bug.
<jussi01> ScottK: cool, well im gonna mark the ubuntu bug mine then, should i also put something on debian?
<ScottK> jussi01: Only if you plan to get it in Debian (which is no bad thing).
<jussi01> ok
<ScottK> BTW, unless you get your package in Debian, you are at risk of your work getting over-written in the future.
<ScottK> jussi01: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/
<jussi01> ScottK: thanks
<Daviey> Could somebody look at my upload?  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5157  :)
<Hobbsee> Daviey: version needs to be -0ubuntu1 for a start, not -ubuntu1
<Daviey> doh
<Hobbsee> didnt check the rest that closely
<Hobbsee> it's still a bit early
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: not late? :P
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: no - i've been asleep :P
<Adri2000> pochu: amule is fixed. but now we have another issue (not critical): the conflicts are not correctly listed in the REPORT file, Lutin will take care of it when he comes back.
<pochu> Adri2000: ok, thanks :)
<Daviey> doh'
<bluekuja> Fujitsu, ping
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: he'll be asleep
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, :)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, gonna ping him tomorrow then
<wolfeon> does anyone know if there is breakage in archive.canonical.com's package server?
<wolfeon> W: GPG error: http://archive.canonical.com feisty-commercial Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
<Hobbsee> hmmm, could be
<Hobbsee> youd' have to wait for the archive admins to be around
<wolfeon> those card assholes, breaking everything. what kind of an imperfect world do we live in? :P
<jussi01> ok, building a python program, where in debian/rules do i put this command: python setup.py install
<ScottK> jussi01: Maybe you don't
<jussi01> ScottK: what then....
<jussi01> ??
<ScottK> jussi01: If it's got a good setup.py you might find python-support + cdbs is the simplest method.  Look at the pyyaml source package as a sample.
<jussi01> arghh... ive not used cdbs...
<jussi01> got a good tutorial
<ScottK> Look at the pyyaml package.  It's dead easy if you've got a good setup.py
<ScottK> cdbs documentation is, umm, sparse.
<jussi01> oh
<ScottK> Google will help you out for what there is.
<ScottK> Other than that, use the source...
<jussi01> ok
<ScottK> Although you probably won't need to.
<jussi01> gah, where do I give myself ownership of a bug? can i do that? 
<jussi01> found it nm...
<jussi01> ScottK: just noticed you commented on this bug :D
<ScottK> Which bug?
<jussi01> bug 108100
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108100 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  mnemosyne" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108100
<Daviey> hmm... why am i getting "Sorry, Commenting for contributors only on their own uploads" - on one of my uploads?
<jussi01> Daviey: you logged in?
<Daviey> yes
<jussi01> weird....
<ScottK> Hmmm
<Daviey> the only thing i can think of - is the email addy on the upload page has a capital letter in the email address and my account doesn't
<ScottK> Daviey: That's likely it.
<Daviey> >:(
* jussi01 cries
<jussi01> ScottK: I dont understand...
<ScottK> Don't understand what?
<siretart> psusi: pong
<jussi01> how that rules file works....:(
<jussi01> ScottK: or anything any more... i feel so stupid
<Lamego> jussi01, you are expected to be familiar with makefiles :P
* jussi01 tickles Lamego.... I havent done cdbs before....
<ScottK> jussi01: If this is because you looked at the rules file for a cdbs package, remember that cdbs is deep black magic.
<Lamego> ah, you mean cdbs :)
<Lamego> that is even simpler :)
<ScottK> If you have a good setup.py it'll just work.
<jussi01> so I ca effectively copy-paste your rules file... ad it should just "work" ??
<ScottK> I've got to run.  It should.
<Lamego> jussi01, http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<jussi01> yay, thanks for your help :D
<jussi01> see you ScottK
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: harsh.
<jussi01> Lamego: thanks for that link, exactly what i was looking for. :D
<psusi> siretart: morning?
<siretart> psusi: oh, I'm about to get to bed ;)
<psusi> siretart: ohh, thought you had gone to bed hours ago ;)
<psusi> siretart: go get some sleep then, I was just looking for some help figuring out ediff
<siretart> psusi: no, I've visited my parents and just returned home
<siretart> oh, xxxxx1 just went away. 
<moxfyre> hi all, i'm having trouble re-uploading a modified package to REVU
<moxfyre> can anyone help me out?
<moxfyre> i get an 'error 553 could not create file' when uploading the .dsc
<moxfyre> even if I do dput -f as the wiki suggests
<moxfyre> so i've been unable to update the package in any way
<siretart> moxfyre: which file?
<siretart> package
<moxfyre> cpuid package
<moxfyre> the fn is cpuid_20060917-0ubuntu1.dsc
<moxfyre> i do dput -f revu cpuid_20060917-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<moxfyre> and it gives me that error
<siretart> I'm on it
<moxfyre> thanks
<moxfyre> can you tell me how to avoid this problem in the future?
<siretart> do not do binary uploads
<siretart> only upload *_source.changes, as the wiki instructs. never upload *_i386.changes
<moxfyre> ahh
<siretart> moxfyre: you can reupload now
<moxfyre> tx!
<siretart> cheers!
<moxfyre> worked like a charm
<moxfyre> now to wait for more harsh comments to roll in :)
<jussi01> programs written in python go in the section python correct?
<Q-FUNK> 
<sacater> damnit
<sacater> the guy who owns a linux server I use for screen and irssi is shutting it down
<sacater> anyone know a server owner who is willing to let me run screen and irssi?
<Hobbsee> sacater: various ubuntu type poeple probably would
<Hobbsee> siretart: maybe
<sacater> Hobbsee: was that addressed to me saying that siretart might, or a completely differnet thing
<Hobbsee> sacater: was addressed to you
<sacater> WHOOT!
<sacater> siretart: ^^^
<siretart> sacater: are you in the launchpad group 'ubuntu-dev'?
* sacater checks
<ajmitch> morning
<jussi01> morning ajmitch
<lionel> morning ajmitch
<ajmitch> hm, new mentoring
<sacater> siretart: not exactly no.. here is a list of those that I am in https://launchpad.net/%7Esacater/+participation
<sacater> siretart: i am applying for Q+A team atm
<ajmitch> Q+A?
<siretart> sacater: hm. we do have 'community developer machines' for MOTUs. 
<Hobbsee> siretart: ppa's?
<siretart> Hobbsee: no, ubuntuwire. ask imbrandon for details 
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> guess that's nto restricted to -dev
<siretart> Hobbsee: he sent an email to ubuntu-motu@ about this. accounts are created from the lp group
<siretart> Hobbsee: I don't know his policy for non -dev people
<sacater> siretart: I am motu mentoree, havnt done it for a while due to SATS and coursework though :(, i made a text editor package before :P
<Hobbsee> siretart: yep, right, thats' what i thought
<sacater> siretart: but i doubt that that is good enough
<jussi01> gah, i hate that...
<jussi01> kwin just crashed....
<sacater> siretart: so... can i have a small server space...
<sacater> please..
<siretart> sacater: I can't create you an account on tiber, the machine is having bandwith problems anyway and needs to be rebooted soon
<cheatr> sacater: How much space do you need?
<siretart> sacater: I'd suggest to ask imbrandon
<sacater> siretart: okay I shall
<sacater> cheatr: enough for irssi and screen
<sacater> cheatr: maybe a bit more if I ever need to host files
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: might do it, yeah
<sacater> cheatr: half a Gig would be more than enough
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: that's a tentative maybe
<sacater> imbrandon: please read above...
<cheatr> sacater: You're after web hosting right?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed
<cheatr> sacater: I don't have php, but I have perl setup
<cheatr> sacater: And I can give you 1/2 a gig. I also have ftp if you don't need an actual site
<sacater> i need ssh ability
<sacater> thats a must
<sacater> to use screen
<cheatr> I'm interested in learning to package for Ubuntu. I've read some of the wiki articles on it, but am still a little unclear. I was wondering if any of you have some time and would be willing to help me out.
<crimsun> sure - where do you need assistance?
<sacater> cheatr: are you familliar with what a debian binary does
<sacater> thats the .deb packages
<cheatr> sacater: Yeah, I'm somewhat familar.
<sacater> heh
<sacater> well
<sacater> to package you will need devscripts
<sacater> allows you to build and edit packages
<cheatr> well, that's not what any of the tutorials said. I looked like I didn't actually make the .deb package. I just submited the files that you normally find in a .tar.gz type installation (where you have to make and then make install)
<sacater> oh
<sacater> you need to build it
<sacater> into a .deb
<sacater> or provide a debdiff for the origianl package
<sacater> outlying the differences
<sacater> a patch really
<xxxxx1> bye all!
<crimsun> cheatr: if by "submit" you mean "submit to REVU or Ubuntu", then yes, you would upload only source [not built binaries] 
<cheatr> crimsun: Yeah, I'm not building the packages for me. I plan on submitting them to Ubuntu for the universe repository
<psusi> so does anyone here use ediff to compare/merge two directories?
<crimsun> I use vimdiff(1)
<crimsun> gnomefreak: I'll be in Carrboro (@Weaver Street Market) from 11A-6P if you'd like to swing by and get your key signed
<crimsun> gnomefreak: err, tomorrow, that is.
<leonel> build a deb  and when I tested  I got an error I need to fix
<leonel> do I  only rerun debuild  ?
<leonel> again
<crimsun> the same debuild command you previously used.
<leonel> ok
<persia> leonel: If the source .dsc was built, I recommend deleting the build directory, reexpanding the new source, and running debuild.  Sometimes debian/rules clean: doesn't do everything it could.
<leonel> persia: it has no  update system
<leonel> persia: I edited the source  
<leonel> i mean no patch system
<persia> leonel: My apologies for lack of clarity.  If you are working on package foo_1.2-3ubuntu4.dsc, and make changes (even directly to the source), which resulted in foo_1.2-3ubuntu5.dsc other files), deleting foo-1.2, and expanding foo_1.2-3ubuntu5.dsc should result in your changes being restored in foo-1.2 (before the build).
<leonel> ok
<leonel> just rerun  debuild    and got the  same  dsc 
<crimsun> (I hope you're running at least debuild -S )
<leonel> yes
<leonel> so no problem  then ?
<crimsun> well, you have the source locally, so you'll have to tell us whether there are problems.  :-)
<persia> leonel: LIkely not - some packages are better than others :).  Check your debdiff to be sure.
<leonel> I mean  I had the  .deb  builded  then  I found an error 
<leonel> just a missing ;
<leonel> edited the source   its  a php script
<crimsun> just install the newer one & retest it
<leonel> rebuild  reinstall retest 
<crimsun> welcome to MOTU.
<crimsun> (except MOTU is usually "fix rebuild reinstall retest" ad nauseum)
<etteyafed> Who do I ask to re-sync the REVU upload keyring?
<crimsun> here.  I'll do it.
<etteyafed> Thank you.
<crimsun> it normally takes 15-20 mins.
<etteyafed> Alright. But after that I should be good to dput my source?
<Hobbsee> argh...save me from the stupid....
<crimsun> I'll say something here in the channel when the process has completed.
<Hobbsee> people, if you're going to pull the line of "i cant get support because i'm a women, you men all think that linux is a type of football enviroment or poker game..." or whatever, please do your research first, that the immediate people you're taking to *arent female*.  kthxbye.
<pochu> Hobbsee: ?
<Hobbsee> pochu: another channel.  i'm venting at the stupidity.
<Hobbsee> s/women/woman/
<pochu> hehe, oks :)
<crimsun> but I don't know of any women in the immediate vicinity  =)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> silly people
<welshbyte> yeah, i don't enjoy football or poker at all
<leonel> crimsun: and its  bug fixing addictive
<crimsun> leonel: up to a point, absolutely.
<crimsun> then again, YMMV.
<leonel> I see dead bugs, but they don't know they are dead
<welshbyte> with a merge where some patches have been added and others removed (in debian/patches/) is there an easy way to figure out which ones should be kept?
<crimsun> leonel: :-)
<welshbyte> i was just peeking at xpdf which looks a little tricky
<crimsun> welshbyte: depends what you mean by "easy".  Depending on your familiarity, reading the patches could be easy.
<welshbyte> i'm not very familiar with it :)
<crimsun> normally it's iterative.  Take debian/changelog and compare with debian/patches/
<crimsun> hopefully they're documented well in the former.
<crimsun> you'll likely end up reading the patches themselves in debian/patches/ , too.
<ScottK> crimsun: Thanks for the thumbs up on the application.
<crimsun> ScottK: sorry, finger slipped.  I actually meant to say that "ScottK is a booger and shouldn't be considered..."
<welshbyte> crimsun: ok thanks, i'll have a look at it but i can't spend much time on it - supposed to be studying for exams :)
<ScottK> Good thing for me it's to late now then....
<crimsun> welshbyte: right, no worries.
<crimsun> ScottK: ;-)
<leonel> dapper's squirrelmail   patched  builded  tested  ...
<leonel> now  to send the debdiff
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<ScottK> Heya TheMuso.
<ScottK> leoneol, sounds great.
<ScottK> err leonel^^
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-17
<crimsun> etteyafed: sync completed.
<etteyafed> crimsun: Right
<ScottK> leonel: You probably ought to look at how keescook adjusted your Edgy changelog before you upload the Dapper debdiff http://librarian.launchpad.net/7672386/squirrelmail_1.4.8-1ubuntu0.1_i386.changes
<ScottK> leonel: You'll find the changelog entry among the things listed there.
<ScottK> Time for me to go cook dinner.  I'll see you all later.
<leonel> yes I used that 
<ScottK> leonel: Great.
<leonel> and edited for dapper
<ScottK> Keep pressing on then.
* ajmitch should probably reply to ScottK's application
<ajmitch> especially as I ended up as an advocate somehow
<leonel> squirrelmail  done !
<welshbyte> padawan... thundercats... i think i'll give up on that thread now :)
<persia> I don't want to subscribe now, but why not use "Contributors", which matches the suggested LP group?  Universe is maintained by the contributors (of which MOTU should be a member), whose work is coordinated by MOTU.
<crimsun> persia: I like the idea, but it may seem a bit too general.
<crimsun> persia: On one hand, one might attempt to differentiate between users and active contributors.  Arguably this distinction is just hand-waving.
* ajmitch is hardly a 'contributor'
<persia> crimsun: True.  I just think that matching ubuntu-universe-contributors is good.  Perhaps that group needs a new name (like ~MOTU -> ~ubuntu-dev way back when) formally, and informally use whatever is decided.
<crimsun> ajmitch: you and me both.
<persia> I argue that differentiation is  good thing.  "users" are incented to become "larvae" (or whatever) by getting a new LP icon, and membership in a team.  The putative Front Desk / Reception could perhaps use that LP team as a tracker for interested parties, etc.  My experience is that "users" (even those that submit patches) are more interested in "works for me" than "a fix for everyone", but that the same individuals are happy t
<jmg> persia: what are you quoting from?
<crimsun> cut off at "are happy t"
<persia> jmg: The little man who sits behind my ears :)
<jmg> url?
<persia> crimsun: the same individuals are happy to see a generalised solution when they receive some (perhaps only internal ego-based) reward.
<jmg> larvae == ubuntero?
<jmg> persia: more often than not, those that make it "work for me" and submit a patch simply dont have the expertise/time to make sure it works for everyone
<jmg> and resource
<persia> jmg: No URL yet - check the IRC logs later.  As for Uunteros, I think these include many people who are not interested in the maintenance of Universe, but rather enjoy support, bug triage, translation, community development, etc.  The ubuntu-motu thread was about a different term for "MOTU Hopeful", which perhaps encouraged stronger self-identification for a casual reader.
<pochu> good night MOTUlandia! :)
<jmg> ah
<jmg> "maggot
<jmg> "
<jmg> :)
<jmg> actually
<jmg> what was He-Man before he became a MOTU?
<crimsun> in the figurative sense or in reality?
<crimsun> back in the day both Chris Halls and Daniel Holbach led what would become MOTU
<jmg> According to his wikipedia page, he was originaly a Prince
<welshbyte> persia: my original thought was that those of us who are not (yet?) MOTUs don't really have a cool identifying banner to march under, so to speak, and using "hopefuls" to group us is a little assuming and non-specific, i just can't think of any decent alternatives :)
<welshbyte> (my attempt was Ubuntu Apprentices but i don't think it flies well)
<persia> welshbyte: I agree.  I've never identified well with "Hopeful".  Separately, I think a lot of people who are not MOTU nor attempting specifically to become MOTU do a lot of good work.  Organising these people would lead to a better Universe (although a longer U-U-S queue).
<jmg> sourceror's apprentice?
<jmg> wannabe?
<jmg> whats a baby warthog called?
<jmg> "Piglet"
<TheMuso> ScottK: I received your email as CC.
<jmg> whats the african name for a baby warthog
<crimsun> could you clarify "african name"?
<crimsun> Is there a specific language you seek?
* persia prefers Xhosa extractions, but !Kung can be enjoyably hard to pronounce.
<crimsun> this reminds me of Tad Williams's Otherland series, but that's dangerously offtopic.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Thanks for your response.
<jmg> crimsun: whatever language Mark likes to use
<jmg> crimsun: indeed
<jmg> !xabbu
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about xabbu - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<welshbyte> persia: if a longer U-U-S queue means more bugs are being fixed, that's great :)
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: you clearly arent on the list :P
<welshbyte> Hobbsee: would you prefer to fix the bugs yourself? :)
<dothebart> what does 'nmu' expand to?
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: nope
<persia> welshbyte: Only if there are more active sponsors.  Right now, four or five people seem to be trying to cover all of it, and sometimes patches will sit there for two or three weeks.  The processes need enough balance that contributors are encouraged to keep feeding the queue.
<Hobbsee> dothebart: no maintainer upload - only applies to debian
<persia> dothebart: Non Maintainer Upload.
<Hobbsee> persia: and people responding back if their patches are still necessary
<persia> Hobbsee: And bugsquad not changing "Needs Info" to "Confirmed" when a revision of the patch is requested.
<dothebart> because of these warnings:
<dothebart> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/webcit-0705161622/lintian
<persia> dothebart: Ignore those warnings.  All Ubuntu uploads are NMUs.
<Hobbsee> persia: true - well, the reporter who's answering.  no need for the bugsquad to do it
<dothebart> ah, ok.
<dothebart> so now i need somebody to revue my packages?
<persia> Hobbsee: I think best workflow is for the person preparing the patch to reset to "Confirmed" when the updated patch is ready.  I've had a few where "Needs Info" was switched to "Confirmed" because there was sufficient information to identify the bug.  Perhaps we need a new status "Fix Ready" for when there is a debdiff patch attached, to prevent namespace collision with bugsquad definitions.
<welshbyte> persia: yes, you have a good point... the expansion should start at the top of the chain to accommodate further expansion at the bottom
<Hobbsee> persia: mmm....let me think on that
<keescook> say, is it legal to use dh_link on files outside your package?  Debian Policy isn't helpful (http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s10.5)  I'm specifically looking at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mythtv-themes-unofficial-0705120325/mythtv-themes-unofficial_0.20070418-0ubuntu1.diff
<Hobbsee> anything which doesnt require a LP change is good
<persia> welshbyte: That's just process work - encouraging nomenclature is still required.
<welshbyte> agreed
<persia> Hobbsee: Perhaps it's just a matter of documentation.  If there is a note on bugsquad pages that bugs subscribed to ubuntu-*-sponsors have a different meaning for status, and to check the wiki page (needs drafting) to see that "Needs Info" means the patch was rejected and "Confirmed" means ready for sponsor processing,  The only place this breaks is with SYNC requests, where only members of ubuntu-*-sponsors should set to confir
<persia> On the other hand, that requires U-*-S to be more aggressive about unsubscribing when there is no patch, or patch in preparation.
<crimsun> persia: your statements are overflowing the line limit.
<crimsun> "where only members of ubuntu-*-sponsors should set to confir"
<persia> crimsun: what's your line limit?  I'll try to break into smaller paragraphs.
<persia> crimsun: members of ubuntu-*-sponsors should set to confirmed.
<Hobbsee> persia: the whole u-u-s thing being undocumented needs fixing,yes
<Hobbsee> if i werent so lazy, i would have written it on the plane
<Hobbsee> but i'm still pretty jetlagged
<Hobbsee> however, i will read backscroll, etc, and try to figure out something
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.  I keep meaning to, but I haven't gotten around to updating MOTU/Launchpad/Guide since January, and it's painfully out of date (and was never completed in any case).
<Hobbsee> yep
<superm1> hey Hobbsee, could you do a follow up revu for a packet that you were the first reviewer on a few weeks ago?
<Hobbsee> superm1: not at the moment, sorry
<superm1> mythbuntu-artwork-usplash, http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=5140
<superm1> okay
<etteyafed> ok, is anyone interested in answering a stupid question? category: dpkg-buildpackage
<ScottK> persia: Good thing you can help with the UUS queue now...
<ScottK> ajmitch: I read the scrollback.  If I misinterpreted our conversation about my application, my sincere apology.  Please say so when you write the list about it.
<persia> ScottK: heh.
<persia> etteyafed: You'd do best to ask your question.  You'll probably get two responses or none :)
<etteyafed> persia: ok. ; any: well revu keeps rejecting my package (Unable to find distrorelease: unstable) but i can't find where to set this value anywhere. I don't think it's in control.
<ajmitch> ScottK: no, there was no misunderstanding :)
<ScottK> ajmitch: OK.  Thanks.  
* ScottK is a worry wart.
<Adri2000> etteyafed: debian/changelog
<etteyafed> argh!
* ajmitch just had a review meeting at work, such fun
<persia> etteyafed: In the changelog, in your entry, just change unstable to gutsy (e.g. "foo (1.2-3ubuntu4) gutsy; urgency=low").
<ajmitch> etteyafed: revu shouldn't reject anything, make sure you're uploading to the right place
<orion2012> If any MOTU's are available, please review gconf-cleaner http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5147
<etteyafed> yeah i see it now thanks, Adri2000 && persia. well it must do some checking, it sends me an email with a rejection notice based on the distrorelease not being set correctly. 
<ScottK> leonel: Just saw keescook's comment on your Dapper patch.  Congrats.  You are now the Ubuntu distro's squirrellmail expert (not kidding).
* keescook hugs leonel
<Adri2000> etteyafed: you are probably uploading to ubuntu instead of revu. try dput revu *_source.changes
<ScottK> leonel: Would you consider subscribing to bugmail for squirrellmail and keeping an eye on it?
<ajmitch> keescook: sorry I didn't tackle samba last night, I ended up crashing & sleeping for awhile
* ajmitch is still getting back to normal :)
<keescook> ajmitch: no worries!  I'm in no rush.  :)
* ajmitch is
<keescook> ah, well, in that case.  "Get to it!"  ;)
<etteyafed> Adri2000: you may be right actually, I thought I read that in ubuntu dput was setup auotmatically to go to revu but maybe not
<etteyafed> Adri2000: wow upload.ubuntu.com. oops
<ScottK> keescook: I started looking at clamav and some of the changes make my head hurt.  I haven't given up, but it's going to need someone else to double check it closely.
<ScottK> etteyafed: I've done that before too.
<keescook> ScottK: sure, I'm happy to look it over.  you're talking about the gutsy merge?
<ScottK> Yes.  I'll let you know when it's ready to look at.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Gotta run.  The 4 year old is persecuting the 13 year old in the other room.
<ajmitch> heh
<keescook> can another REVU reviewer look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5114 ?  I think it's ready to go, but I don't want to get slapped by Mithrandir again if I upload a bad package.  :)
<etteyafed> I guess i just need to stop doing 10 things at once and actually READ the docs once in a while. can't  skim everything ;)
<DarkSun88> Any universe sponsor? Could you so kind to check this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ebview/+bug/115138
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115138 in ebview "Please merge ebview 0.3.6-2.1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<ajmitch> the symlink thing doesn't look nice, but it does at least depend on ttf-bitstram-vera
<crimsun> the orig.tar.gz is missing, keescook.
<superm1> crimsun, its on the first upload
<superm1> it's about 90 megs, so didnt upload multiple times
<ajmitch> DarkSun88: is that patch in debian's BTS?
<DarkSun88> ajmitch: I just added the directory patch in debian/ including the patch.
<ajmitch> DarkSun88: right, but does the debian maintainer know about the problem & the patch?
<DarkSun88> I don't know. :(
<etteyafed> great my package is listed on revu now. now people are like to look at my awefull code eventually :0
<ajmitch> it's not essential for the upload, but it's nice to do
* ajmitch should subscribe to pkg-samba-maint now
<DarkSun88> ajmitch: Mm, ok. Excuse me.
<leonel> ScottK: how is that ?
<ajmitch> DarkSun88: 99% of people don't seem to do it anyway
<leonel> ScottK: clamav 0.90.2  in dapper ??  
<DarkSun88> ajmitch: Yes, but it's nice to do..
<leonel> keescook: thank's  I hope my wife  didn't  see that ...
<keescook> leonel: heheh.  I'm just happy to see squirrelmail getting attention.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<DarkSun88> bddebian: Hi :)
* keescook waves "hi" to bddebian
<bddebian> Hello DarkSun88, keescook
<Hobbsee> hiya keescook 
<keescook> hiya Hobbsee :)
* Hobbsee should really....y'know...actually go to uni
<leonel> keescook: squirrelmail was a  stopper for me  to install ubuntu as a server for  end users  that need  webmail
<leonel> keescook: now  no more :-)
<keescook> leonel: terrific!  :)
<crimsun> oh good god, tarballs.
<Hobbsee> of?
<crimsun> mythtv-themes-unofficial-0.20070418/archives
<ajmitch> mythtv crack
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you're awake already? :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i got up at about 3.30am, yes
<crimsun> ajmitch: she's taking over ALSA, yay!
<Hobbsee> crimsun: hah.  dream on.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: no dear, it's happening kthx.
<ajmitch> crimsun: YAY!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: insane
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i know.  jetlag
<ajmitch> at least I'm keeping vaguely normal hours
<ajmitch> though going to bed before 9AM & then being awake from about 1:30-3am isn't particularly normal
<ajmitch> s/9AM/9PM/
* ajmitch even left work early yesterday
<leonel> keescook: now  what to do with :  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/dapper/+source/squirrelmail/+bug/78144    and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/dapper/+source/squirrelmail/+bug/57195
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78144 in squirrelmail "CVE-2006-6142 Cross site scripting in compose, draft & HTML mail viewing" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
* imbrandon looks up
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: heh, yes
<superm1> good evenin imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya superm1 
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, is that scater kid looking for just a shell or webspace, or build access? ( honestly if its just a shell for screen + irssi i have better things to use my resources on, but if he genuninely wants access to a buildd and can get a MOTU or two to vouch i dont mind, and webspace is a easy no brainer i'll give him )
<imbrandon> wow that was long winded
<imbrandon> if someone wants to pass message that along to him :)
<keescook> leonel: you fixed CVE-2006-6142 in dapper and edgy, so I guess I should close it.  :P
<superm1> imbrandon, speaking of buildd's, could you suss out the buildd process for pegasus before work tonight?
<imbrandon> i would be better for me to do AT work as i havent slept yet hehe
<imbrandon> superm1, btw when i upgrade my main webserver this weekend i have a beefier box mythbuntu can inherit
<leonel> keescook: and  57195  too got fixed
<imbrandon> ( the current webserver )
<superm1> awesome imbrandon 
<superm1> imbrandon, what are you doing in the channel if you havent slept yet :)  dont you work in a few hours ?
<imbrandon> yea i work in a few hours, i got up for some food
<keescook> leonel: nice.  I've closed that one too.  good work!  No open bugs on squirrelmail, it seems.  :)
<imbrandon> and a phone call to a girly about this weekend :)
<superm1> hehe
<leonel> keescook: great !
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: he's here.  i think just a shell and such.
<imbrandon> sacater, ahhh see above 
<imbrandon> sacater, drop me an email imbrandon@kubuntu.org /me is headed off for a nap
<ajmitch> imbrandon: got the new sparc running?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea just waiting on an IP, its a dual proc ultrasparc-II 300mhz with a gig of ram
<ajmitch> nice
<imbrandon> the cool thing is it can hold 2gb ram, that is if i can find enough 128mb sticks
<imbrandon> it takes a "field of rams"
<imbrandon> all 128mb chips
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: tackle bug 115107 please
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115107 in checkinstall "checkinstall cannot install" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115107
<imbrandon> anyhow /me is off to sleep
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: haha, i saw that earlier
<ajmitch> so, how should I convert an mbox file to maildir? :)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Set up mutt to create new boxes as maildir, and convert that way.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: well, this is an mbox file with ~350K mails in it
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Ouch.
<ajmitch> approx 2GB of ubuntu bugs
<keescook> ajmitch: one sec, finding utility I've done mbox->maildir conversions with...
<keescook> ajmitch: http://batleth.sapienti-sat.org/projects/mb2md/
<ajmitch> thanks :)
<keescook> great stuff; we used that at OSDL to move everyone to Maildir
<ajmitch> I'll need to turn on dir_index for ext3 as well
<crimsun> "The XML files contained within this theme are distributed under the GNU General Public License (aka GPL) version 2 see the file "COPYING" for details on the GPL."  ...  "The original artwork contained within this theme is Copyright (c) 2005 Technovera Inc.  Unauthorized redistribtion of this artwork is forbidden."
<ajmitch> so that it doesn't completely suck
<crimsun> wtf does the latter part mean?
<keescook> crimsun: whoa.  errr... that sucks
<superm1> crimsun, which one is that from?
<superm1> the laquer themes?
<crimsun> 0.20-syth-blue-wide.tar.bz2
<crimsun> artwork by Renato "Treetog" Veras and James Meyer
<crimsun> Please report any issues with this theme to james.meyer at operamail.com
<superm1> those were commercial themes at one point.  
<superm1> I think thats where that originated from
<crimsun> it will not pass archive admin review as-is
<superm1> let me see if i can find the posting releasing them to the public
<crimsun> there /must/ be clarification.
<superm1> Ok.
<crimsun> same for 0.20-syth-green-wide.tar.bz2 and 0.20-syth-lacquer-wide.tar.bz2
<superm1> yea they were all part of the same commercial product
<crimsun> and syth-lacquer-clean-wide.tar.bz2
<crimsun> you might want to think about breaking up this source package
<crimsun> it's HUGE
<superm1> how would you say to break it?
<jmg> what package?
<superm1> just individual theme's packages
<superm1> and then have a metapackage that will get them all at once 
<ajmitch> keescook: it doesn't like my mbox files
<crimsun> bloo* into one, syth* into another, ProjectGrayhem* into another
<crimsun> etc.
<superm1> okay
<superm1> i'll do that then
<jmg> have you considered that ubuntu-media-center is going with elisa, not myth?
<ScottK> leonel: Next we need to look at backports for squirrelmail as there is a vulnerable version in the Dapper backports repository.  For that you can request the Gutsy version be backported to Dapper and Edgy.
<ScottK> leonel: Working on clamav 0.90.2 for Gutsy.
<keescook> ajmitch: how strange...
<ScottK> leonel: There are API changes that make it REALLY hard to backport clamav 0.90 anything to Dapper/Edgy.  It breaks other stuff.
<ScottK> leonel: Backport request process is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportRequestProcess
<ajmitch> keescook: probably something to do with the odd From & >From lines that got stuck in it somehow, somewhere
<ajmitch> which mutt doesn't complain about
<keescook> ajmitch: hm... well, it should at least be a good start for a script to do it.  :)
* ajmitch shrugs
<Daviey> crimsun, re theme packages - doesn't it make an update harder if an author only updates one package?  Or rather only fixes one package when main app breaks legacy themes.  I knwo of one author who say's he won't maintain non-widescreen themes
<crimsun> Daviey: to what does "it" refer?
<Daviey> crimsun, grouping themes inside one tar?
<crimsun> Daviey: yes, that's one of the reasons (uncited) that I recommend that Mario break up that gigantenormous source package.
* Daviey slaps Daviey - misunderstood what you were saying
<dakira> hi! when I build a daemon.. how do I go about registering its init-script on install at a certain runlevel? i mean do you have a hint what to put in the debian/rules file?
<ajmitch> dakira: update-rc.d in the postinst
<persia> dakira: man dh_installinit for detailed instructions
<dakira> ajmitch, persia.. thx! I've learnt alot here in the past 24h!
<persia> ajmitch: is dh_installinit no longer best practice?
<ajmitch> yes, dh_installinit will work better, as it puts the right stuff into postinst
<ajmitch> persia: I'm still jetlagged, my brain isn't quite here yet :)
<persia> ajmitch: No worries.  My defaults are just to assume that you are correct.
<dakira> well.. init scripts shouldn't be used anymore, i know that.. but I don't want to write an upstart script just yet ;)
<ajmitch> persia: those are broken defaults
<leonel> ScottK: so there won't be security updates for dapper-backports  instead   a  backport from gutsy is filled ?
<superm1> crimsun, jams is  james.meyer at operamail.com.  I mailed him about the license
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.
<jams> crimsun-  yes the themes can be packaged up.
<jams> artwork and xml files
<leonel> ok
<leonel> where do I subscibe for squirrelmail bugs ?
<leonel> ScottK:  ?
<persia> leonel: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squirrelmail/
<dakira> g'night everyone...
<leonel> persia: in bug contacts ?
<ScottK> leonel: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squirrelmail/+subscribe
<leonel> found   in Bugmail settings    I want to receive  all bugmail for squirrelmail 
<ScottK> That's the one.
<leonel> done
<ScottK> Great.
<leonel> so all bugs filled  for  squirrelmail  will be notified  to me ?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> As well as updates
<leonel> ok
<ScottK> Next is the backport request.
<leonel> so  the next to do is to ask for  backport  squirrel  
<ScottK> Yes
<persia> ScottK: Updates?  I never get anything except bugmail.  Am I not subscribed to the right place?
<ScottK> UPdates to the bugs.
<leonel> from gutsy  to  ???   feisty  edgy  dapper ?
<ScottK> Not updates to the package
<ScottK> leonel: Gutsy to Dapper and Edgy.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  Thanks.
<ScottK> Even though the version numbers are different, Feisty and Gutsy code is identical, so no point in a backport.
<leonel> ScottK:  not for  feisty ?
<ScottK> No
<leonel> ok
<ScottK> WIth your patch, the Feisty and Gutsy code are identical.
<leonel> I got it
<leonel> so I report a bug  requesting    backport squirrelmail  from gutsy to dapper ?
<leonel> https://launchpad.net/dapper-backports/+filebug ?
<ryanakca> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4962 , should I make an .orig.tar.gz without a debian/ ? I emailed the author a couple of weeks ago... his email address doesn't exist...
<ScottK> leonel: Yes
<ScottK> Then you can add edgy-backports upstream to the same bug.
<leonel> "Request backport for squirrelmail from gutsy to dapper "    as summary ?
<ScottK> and Edgy
<ScottK> Yes
<leonel> both in the same  report ?
<leonel> "Request backport for squirrelmail from gutsy to dapper and  edgy "   
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> ryanakca: According to MOTU/FAQ: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ it's up to you unless you need to remove a file from the shipped debian dir, then you have to repack it.
<leonel> ScottK:  for description  just  say that theres a security bug  fixed in  gutsy ?
<leonel> ScottK: "squirrelmail  backported version to dapper  has security bugs  fixed in gutsy"
<leonel> there's no  edgy backported squirrelmail 
<leonel> ScottK:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/dapper-backports/+bug/115149
<leonel> done
<ryanakca> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> ryanakca: You're welcome.
<ScottK> leonel: You didn't mark that bug as private did you?
<ScottK> leonel: I can't access it.
<ScottK> leonel: If you did, undo it please....
<leonel> done
<ScottK> leonel: Now add edgy-backports: https://bugs.launchpad.net/dapper-backports/+bug/115149/+choose-affected-product
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115149 in dapper-backports "Request backport for squirrelmail from gutsy to dapper  and edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<leonel> ScottK:  done 
<Kr4t05> Who's the MOTU that compiled/added IDJC to the feisty repos?
<ajmitch> is there a problem with it?
<ScottK> leonel: Looks good.
<leonel> ScottK: thanks  a lot  
<Kr4t05> ajmitch: No, I just wanted to hug the person. :)
<welshbyte> just about to send a little patch up to debian... if i file a bug, will the bts do the right thing if i attach the patch to the email?
<ScottK> welshbyte: If you tag it as having a patch, yes.
<ScottK> leonel: You're welcome.  Thank you for your work here.
<welshbyte> ok... guess i should read a bit more then :)
<leonel> ScottK: let's take a look  at  clamav ..
<leonel> ScottK: but that be tomorrow ..
<ScottK> leonel: Or later.  Look at all the things that depend on one of the binary packages from clamav and think hard about testing all that for a backport.
<ScottK> leonel: I'm in favor, but it's a lot of work.
<leonel> I think clamav must be  the  newer in production 
<ScottK> leonel: Yes, but what good is it if all the stuff that uses it gets broken in the process.
<ScottK> leonel: There is some consensus that clamav is worth taking higher risk than usual to backport, but that risk tolerance is not infinite.
<leonel> ScottK: yes   it's bad  i know
<leonel> there are no bugs in dapper's   clamav ?  I mean  security bugs ?
<leonel> havent  checked yet
<ScottK> leonel: There are.
<racarr> You're even scarier in this alternate form.
<ScottK> leonel: Are you subscribed to the motu mailing list?
<ScottK> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
<racarr> oops....I just replied to something that was said 2 days ago :/
<leonel> I don't believe    going  for it
<racarr> somehow irssi got way scrolled up.
<ScottK> racarr: To whom?
<racarr> Err. It was a conversation between laserjock hobbsee and ajmitch. But because of how my scrollback was, I thought it was occuring right now
<ScottK> OK.
<leonel> done
<ajmitch> racarr: time to catch up
<ScottK> leonel: You might look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-April/001584.html
<racarr> Can someone look at http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/beryl-crack/aquamarine/ It's a series of copyright fixes with aquamarine. If someone could once over it and upload it I would appreciate it
<ScottK> also the IRC logs for the 4/26 MOTU meeting in #ubuntu-meeting.
* ScottK has got to run.  Good night all.
<leonel> ScottK: thanks 
<ajmitch> aha, LaserJock 
<ajmitch> night ScottK 
<leonel> well motus    Good night 
<LaserJock> uh oh
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what'd I do?
<joejaxx> man
<joejaxx> please tell me why network-manager-gnome likes wiping out your resolv.conf even when you specify the ip range for the vpn?
<joejaxx> i do not get it
<LaserJock> NM wipes out everything
<ajmitch> LaserJock: nothing to be worried about, yet
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes but i thought it would be smart enough to know that if i specify a vpn ip group that i obviously am using the non-vpn connection for other things
<joejaxx> and that i need name resolution
<joejaxx> oh well :P
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<nixternal> is it?
<LaserJock> a package that FTBFS when building over ssh
<jmg> due to /dev/console stuff?
<LaserJock> jmg: I don't think so
<LaserJock>  ./configure gives me:
<LaserJock> checking for python module gtk... X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication.
<StevenK> Hrm. psusi pinging at 5am local time. Huzzah
<StevenK> LaserJock: That can be fixed.
<StevenK> LaserJock: When I say fixed, I mean worked around.
<StevenK> Gasp! GCC 4.2 final has been released.
<welshbyte> ok i'm happy with my xpdf merge now... what do i need to provide to get it sponsored and where should i put it?
<LaserJock> attach a debdiff to a bug report and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<welshbyte> will do
<welshbyte> LaserJock: do you mean a debdiff between the previous ubuntu version and my merge or the debian version and my merge?
<LaserJock> welshbyte: debian version
<welshbyte> LaserJock: ok thanks
<LaserJock> and specify what you debdiffed from
<welshbyte> bug 113365
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113365 in xpdf "New version (3.02) available" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113365
<welshbyte> hm, i wonder how those newlines got taken out of the changelog, i didn't do it myself
<welshbyte> ah, looks like MoM did it
* welshbyte goes to get some sleep
<ranf> g'morning
<crimsun> good $timeofday
<ranf> I'm currently looking at bug #77534. Not much happening at the Debian side. uscan worked without trouble. Should I package for Ubuntu?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 77534 in ruby-gnome2 "Please update Ruby-Gnome2 to 0.16.0" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77534
<crimsun> when you mean "Not much happening at the Debian side", do you mean you've contacted the Debian maintainer(s)?
<ranf> crimsun, no iI didn't. goog point.
<ranf> s/goog/good/
<VoX> hm dont spose there's anyone in here who's familiar with SIP?
<ranf> !ask
<ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<Plug> Seveas: about?
<Plug> no Falcon build for feisty?  And not in universe?
<crimsun> no to the latter.
<Plug> seems like a shoe-in, software written by a MOTU and all?
<VoX> i cant seem to get a direct answer as to whether SIP spawns child ports for data transfer?
<crimsun> Plug: not an MOTU.
<Plug> sorry
<crimsun> Plug: if you'd like to package it, feel free.  See the links in the topic.
<crimsun> (it's already in bzr, so...)
<Plug> crimsun: it's been packaged by seveas since day dot
<crimsun> Plug: I'm aware.
<ajmitch> hello Plug 
<ajmitch> so, I wonder if I should buy a new hard drive now & add it as a spare to the RAID set
<ranf> VoX, try http://www.voip-info.org/ There are the experts I guess.
<VoX> rad
<jussi01> morning all
<jussi01> can someone help me wit this error? dpkg-source: error: syntax error in control file ./mnemosyne-0.9.8.1/debian/control at line 18: continued value line not in field
<ajmitch> jussi01: just put debian/control on pastebin
<jussi01> ajmitch: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21239/
<ajmitch> put a . on line 17, 1 space in
<jussi01> ok
<jussi01> heh, thanks, t works
<jussi01> ajmitch: I hate it when i miss little things like that...
<jussi01> ok, The package im making reccomends latex be installed, but which one of the million latex's i found with apt-cache search do i use?
<RAOF> I belive that texlive is the one we're transitioning to.
<jussi01> RAOF: thanks, :D
* RAOF knows it's the one that isn't tetex
<RAOF> Yup, texlive.  So says ubuntu-devel-discuss
<jussi01> RAOF: great...D:
<Fujitsu> @lart ion3 upstream.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> gah
<jussi01> what needs to be in a man page for a grapical program?
<RAOF> TheMuso: d :P
<RAOF> Any command line switches it takes (Gnome programs usually have a whole bunch of automatic options)
<RAOF> A brief run-down of what it does
<jussi01> RAOF: its a python program, with qt....
* Fujitsu sets various vicious animals on ion3 upstream. We don't need any more packages renamed due to deranged trademark restrictions, damnit...
<jussi01> lol Fujitsu
<RAOF> jussi01: They probably still have some default options.
<RAOF> Anyway, if it doesn't have any switches at all, just a brief description?
<jussi01> RAOF: this is the program http://mnemosyne-proj.sourceforge.net/index.php
<jussi01> I dont think it has any, weirdly...
<jussi01> RAOF: so something similar to what is in debian/control ?
<RAOF> Yeah, I suppose so.
<jussi01> RAOF: thanks
<RAOF> Basically, it'd be nice to "apropos flash card" and get the right app :)
<jussi01> huh?
<RAOF> Well, that's the predominant reason *I* use GUI man pages.
<RAOF> When I don't know what name the binary has :)
* Fujitsu attacks LP for timing out repeatedly.
<RAOF> With a sword?
<jussi01> Fujitsu: is in a violent mood this morning...
<Fujitsu> Not happy with ion3 upstream, and LP being completely useless doesn't help.
<Hobbsee> hi all
<jussi01> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya jussi01 :)
<RAOF> Hey Hobbsee 
<Fujitsu> Is there a way to get all {un,mult}iverse bugmail?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: subscribe to ubuntu-bugs, i guess - although i'm not sure about how to split the main mail
<Fujitsu> I wonder if LP puts in a header...
<Fujitsu> Aha, it does.
* Hobbsee notes u-u-s is quiet...
<jussi01> alright, if someones got a minute could they have a look at mnemosyne for me? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5172
<RAOF> Hm, should that FAQ be in README.Debian?
* RAOF is genuinely curious - I've only seen Debian specific stuff in there before.
<jussi01> RAOF: yeah, well it was weird, it had an instruction to put stuff here in there, so I put stuff there....
<Fujitsu> README.Debian is for Debian-specific stuff.
<RAOF> jussi01: Oh, you can probably drop some of your build-depends.  You only need python-all-dev (it incorporates python2.4-dev, python-dev, etc)
<jussi01> ok, I will fix that then...
<Fujitsu> If there's nothing specific, you should remove the file.
<jussi01> thanks Fujitsu
<RAOF> You could add that FAQ as a patch to the readme, or as a whole new file, I suppose?
<jussi01> RAOF: yeah, i imagine so...
<jussi01> or just link to it somehwere.....
<jussi01> its straight from their web pages...
<RAOF> Then again, I don't think a *lot* of users check out /usr/share/doc/foo very often.
<jussi01> hehe
<jussi01> yeah, I think ill just drop it
<RAOF> Oh, and your depends will almost certainly be wrong.
<jussi01> huh?
<RAOF> Well, it's a python script, right?
<jussi01> yes...
<RAOF> So, first of all, there's no dependency on python :)
<RAOF> And secondly, although it would be technically feasible for dh_pycentral to calculate what python packages it has as dependencies, it doesn't.  Or didn't last time I packaged python stuff.  Maybe 0.6 is awesome :)
<jussi01> RAOF: its weird, i only had a few deps there, then lintian gave me a whole lot of missing deps or something
<RAOF> You'd want at least ${Python:Depends} (which pycentral will fill with the right python depend, I'm not sure about the capitalisation) + probably python-qt4, python-xml, python-pygame
<RAOF> And you probably don't need those in build-depends (unless the it checks for them)
<RAOF> Although I'm less sure about that.
<jussi01> ok
<RAOF> (Any actual MOTU is welcome to jump in anytime ;) )
<ranf> My pbuilder is broken: http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/10821/  utils is the Section: in debian/control. What is this?
<RAOF> jussi01: Also, many people won't actually need TeX support with that, it might be worth dropping the Recommends: down to a Suggests:
<Zic> Seveas: ping
<Seveas> zic?
<Treenaks> yay for contentless pings \o/
<Zic> Seveas: hello, I've got a little problem with falcon, when I'm running 'falcon update', it prints : W: No releases were found
<Zic> have you got any hints ? :)
<Seveas> Zic, read the docs :)
<Zic> Seveas: where can I found it please ?
<Seveas> man falcon / dpkg -L falcon
<Zic> I have alreandy read the man of falcon, but nothing help me
<Seveas> it points to the pdf file
<Zic> hmm, ok :)
<Zic> thanks
<persia> I'm looking at the [can-not-install]  bugs, and I was wondering if anyone familiar with schroot could suggest a better command line than `schroot --automatic-session -c gutsy -u root aptitude install $package` for testing.  This one unfortunately doesn't appear to properly clean the session after itself.
<StevenK> persia: Personally, I use pbuilder. pbuilder login lets you login and cleans up after you.
<persia> StevenK: You may have convinced me.  I'll go look at pbuilder again.  If I can wrap it in a for loop, I'll not complain too much.
<StevenK> persia: Not sure about that...
<StevenK> Actually, you can.
<StevenK> pbuilder execute
<StevenK> for i in <packages> ; do sudo pbuilder execute "aptitude install $pkg" | tee install-$pkg ; done
<Zic> Seveas: now, I have an other error : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21261/
<persia> StevenK: Yep.  I'm reviewing the manual now.  I'll give one last try with schroot -f before installing new software, but I think I'll be using pbuilder to verify these.
<Zic> for the last one, I have a little idea
<StevenK> persia: There one or two of the can not install bugs towards the end of Feisty that I couldn't reproduce in a chroot and required vmware.
<persia> StevenK: Really?  Which ones?
<StevenK> Now that is pushing it. Feisty was a long time ago. :-P
<StevenK> Zic: It's trying to sign a release file with key 0x8807D916
<Seveas> Zic, don't run falcon as root
<persia> StevenK: Never mind then.  I'll presume he who runs the automated can-not-install tests will slap me when I set the bugs to "Needs Info" incorrectly.  I'm guessing that those that were tricky to reproduce are probably commented.
<Seveas> Zic, and make sure your user has access to that scret key
<Zic> Seveas: yes, but with a problem of rights, falcon can't run without sudo
<Zic> s/Seveas/StevenK/
<Seveas> Zic, fix that problem
<Seveas> Zic, your ~/.gnupg seems broken as well
<Zic> hmm, ok, I'm trying to fix it
<jussi01> im just running out, but if someones got time to look at mnemosyne that'd be great:D http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5174
<persia> StevenK: sbuild -f seems to work (I'm not sure why I only discovered this *after* having previously given up).  pbuilder is still on my list, but not yet an immediate need :)  Thanks for the suggestion in any case: I become more tempted each time I encounter an issue.
<StevenK> persia: Heh. :-) 
<StevenK> persia: Conversely, sbuild tempts me a little.
<persia> StevenK: It works with LVM, and with decent memory and disk caching, that means it's all in RAM.  I'm about 5ms from a mirror, so it's incredibly fast and clean.  On the other hand, it's not very popular, so solving issues can be a bit tricky.
<StevenK> persia: I'm using LVM, with 1.5Gb of RAM and a SATA disk. And I have a mirror 0.1ms away.
<persia> StevenK: LVM and pbuilder?  I thought dancer hadn't fixed that yet.
<StevenK> When I say 0.1 ms, I mean 1ms
<persia> StevenK: Ah, so you don't have the bug fancy expensive switch then, eh?
<persia> s/bug/big/
<StevenK> persia: pbuilder doesn't use LVM snapshots, just a tarball.
<StevenK> persia: I have a 16 port GigE switch is that big and fancy enough? :-)
<persia> StevenK: That's what I thought.  I heard there was thought of getting pbuilder to work with UML and LVM-snapshots, which would be neat, but not yet.
<StevenK> I thought it worked with UML...
<persia> StevenK: If you've a GigE switch, why is your mirror so far away?  My problem is no switch, an aging router, and only Fast Ethernet.  As for UML, it does, but not in a snapshot, so you have to wait for the tarball to unroll.
<StevenK> persia: My mirror is only 100Mbit
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  Mine's 1000, but I can't get there that fast :(
<StevenK> I have one GigE device, which is the machine I'm on. Fun, huh?
<StevenK> No, I lie. My laptop has GigE.
<persia> StevenK: You could adjust that.  I suspect a GigE card for the mirror is easy to collect, even in the land of oppressive telecoms regulations.  I'm not likely to find a GigE router suitable for home use anytime soon :)
<StevenK> persia: The reason I'm curious about sbuild is the fact that there won't be any tarball unpacking.
<StevenK> persia: Sort of. I would, except that GigE PCI cards are kind of pointless, since you've taken the limit off of the Ethernet, and replaced it with a bus bandwidth limit.
<persia> StevenK: That's what makes it extra fast.  I like it (except that I keep having trouble figuring out how to get it to work).  Be warned, you really, really, really, don't want to start a server in a snapshot, and detach your session :)
<StevenK> The Ethernet in this machine, is 1. On board, and 2. On the PCI-E bus.
<persia> StevenK: Oh well, your mirror will have to wait for the next upgrade cycle then.  You'll have to live with 1 ms.  That's about 30 seconds for debootstrap, no?
<StevenK> persia: Um, I don't debootstrap that often. :-)
<StevenK> persia: I can jigdo off of it in about 2 minutes.
* persia just couldn't think of any other reason to download lots of files, but jigdo is a good metric.
<StevenK> persia: If I could afford it, I'd get a Pentium 4 with PCI-E, SATA-II and 4 SATA-II disks in an enclosure.
<persia> StevenK: If you could afford it, you'd get a Sun 6500, which puts that to shame :)
<StevenK> I'm not that big a fan of Sun hardware.
<Zic> Seveas: www.ff-irc.net/ubuntu ! it works, thanks to you for the packaging of falcon :)
<persia> Is anyone else making good midrange kit these days?  I used to like Alpha, but most everything I see now is either commodity bus based, or larger than can easily be installed outside a machine room.
<StevenK> persia: The Sun 6500 has been superseded. :-P
<StevenK> And so has its replacement, the SunFire 6800
* persia decides to begin ignoring hardware - knowledge is doomed to obsolesence.
<Treenaks> persia: I did that a long time ago :)
<persia> Treenaks: You're clearly better than I at ignoring the decaying equine :)
<StevenK> There, something very comparable. Sun Fire E6900
<StevenK> It's only 1.8 million with 24 UltraSPARC IV+, 384Gb of RAM and ... 146Gb of disk.
<StevenK> I'm somewhat impressed by that. A default configuration has more than double the hard disk space for the RAM.
<StevenK> ... which is in 192 2G DIMMs. Sweet Jesus, no wonder it's 28 RU.
<Treenaks> StevenK: you want it as your new buildd? ;)
<StevenK> Treenaks: It'd make a nice replacement for a current sparc, it being a poor Ultra 5.
<StevenK> s/a current/my current/
<persia> StevenK: Yep.  That's likely the one I would have meant if I kept up, but it doesn't seem to have any reported fancy disk access technologies, and the system bandwidth is less than a dual-G5 mac.
<Treenaks> StevenK: 'Please build OOo' 'done' 'omgwtf?'
<StevenK> Treenaks: What scares the hell out of me is it could build OOo *in RAM*
<ajmitch> Treenaks: you're dreaming
<Treenaks> ajmitch: so? :)
<ajmitch> Treenaks: OOo will still take several hours to build
<StevenK> ajmitch: With 24 processors?
<Treenaks> ajmitch: from a ramdisk?
<ajmitch> StevenK: it's OOo
<StevenK> Heh, yeah, well.
<ajmitch> seriously
<Treenaks> ajmitch: oh, you mean the 'sleep 3600' in the makefiles ;)
<StevenK> Actually, I think this machine barely meets the minimum hardware requirements for Office 2007.
<ajmitch> "let's see how many primes we can calculate"
<StevenK> Then again, surely the kernel could build in under ten minutes?
<ajmitch> one would hope so
<jsgotangco> wha?
* jsgotangco just read scrollback
<ajmitch> uh oh, mr CC is here :)
<imbrandon> StevenK, i can build a kernel for my x86 in under 10 minutes here
<imbrandon> moins all
* ajmitch behaves
<StevenK> imbrandon: Try the Ubuntu config? :-)
<jsgotangco> "192 2G DIMMs"
<imbrandon> man i want that sparc for my web/mail server :)
<StevenK> PRIMEPOWER 2500
<StevenK> Contact Sun for price
<StevenK> I wonder why that is. :-P
<StevenK> "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> thats fskin insane
<persia> StevenK: Sun's prices are negotiable.  The last Sun I bought (2006) cost about 60% of what the sales rep said it would when we started.
<StevenK> Then again, up to 128 CPUs at 2.08 GHz, supports up to 512 GB of memory and suprise, suprise isn't rack mountable. I suspect because it comes pre-packaged with a forklift to move it.
<imbrandon> persia, still %60 of 1.8 mill is too much for my budget :)
<imbrandon> StevenK, it comes in its own blackbox(tm) datacenter
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> because 512GB ought to be enough for anyone
<persia> imbrandon: Mine too, just sometimes clients let me use their budgets (but not usually that much on only one computer - geographical distribution is in these days).
<ajmitch> persia: think you could donate a box or two like that to the MOTU efforts?
<StevenK> ajmitch: I think it's physical constraints coming into play - 512GB is 256 DIMMs.
<ajmitch> StevenK: I know, but it's just not that much :)
* StevenK remembers back when merkel.d.o had 48Gb of RAM.
<ajmitch> I imagine that some customers could easily use 512GB on some serious datasets
<ajmitch> 'when'?
<imbrandon> enough to run a full mirror and them compile OOo in memory
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> Oh, it still does.
<persia> ajmitch: My personal collection contains only one machine in excess of 1 GHz (my primary laptop is 312MHz), and my SPARC is 80MHz.  I can't dedicate client machines really, and rarely have the same client for more than a few months, so it wouldn't be stable.
<ajmitch> doesn't merkel still have that?
<StevenK> stevenk@merkel:~% free -m total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
<StevenK> Mem:         48864      47595       1269          0       8526      29066
<ajmitch> Mem:         48864      47646       1218          0       8526      29066
<ajmitch> yes, so I just saw :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Beat you, I think. :-P
<ajmitch> StevenK: I was slower at pasting
<StevenK> What the hell is using 47Gb of RAM. :-P
<ajmitch> -/+ buffers/cache:      10052      38811
<ajmitch> only ~10GB really used
<imbrandon> jesus what box is that
<ajmitch> and anyone running firefox or OOo could easily use that :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: just a little debian box
<StevenK> imbrandon: merkel.debian.org
<StevenK> imbrandon: Just a quad 1.2GHz ia64 with 48Gb of RAM
<ajmitch> imagine the power bill for that
<imbrandon> heh nice
<StevenK> imbrandon: Do you need a towel? :-P
<imbrandon> StevenK, my co-worker just handed me one
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> imbrandon: put one in your ubuntuwire.com rack kthx
<StevenK> Hah
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hehe yea
<StevenK> I'm not sure HP are still selling Itaniums.
<imbrandon> i just want one really kick ass box for my webserver, so i can replace the 3 or 4 smaller boxen i have now with one
<StevenK> imbrandon: Can I suggest a 8 core Sun Fire T1000? :-P
<imbrandon> ajmitch, btw eta on all the IPs and server additions is 12am localtime saturday, i got the email this morning
<ajmitch> T2000 is more fun
* ajmitch had a couple to play with last year
<StevenK> It is reported on sun.com that they only have Solaris 10 on them.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> brb
<ajmitch> but you know that you can get canonical support for them
<ajmitch> (and EtienneG just walks in...)
<StevenK> If you can afford $10K USD for a T2000, I suspect the Canonical support contract is also affordable. :-)
* ajmitch sleeps
<EtienneG> huh ?
<EtienneG> reading the backscroll ...
<EtienneG> yes, we do support Sun T2000
<ajmitch> we were just talking about little sun boxes :)
<EtienneG> support pricing for Sun hardware is the same : 750$/yr/server, 10 incidents
<EtienneG> and you can even get free support if you use Sun Try-and-Buy
<ajmitch> that'd be nice, but it'd be hard to convince them that I should keep a T2000
<EtienneG> depend who "them" is
<ajmitch> those who approve the try & buy program
<persia> ajmitch: Just wear a nice suit, carry a business card with only your name and email address, and explain to the sales representative that your client is confidential :)
<ajmitch> hah
<EtienneG> ajmitch, I see
<StevenK> persia: Heh, yes, "My client can't be seen buying Sun equipment!"
* ajmitch doesn't see work getting a T1000 or T2000 anytime soon
<StevenK> Same.
<ajmitch> ah well
<ajmitch> night all 
<StevenK> Night!
<DktrKranz> persia, around?
<persia> StevenK: "I represent a nascent financial firm that needs to perform signficant numerical computation as part of their demonstration phase.  Due to the sensitive nature of the calculations, I have been retained to ensure the absolute privacy of my principals.  The speicif crequest is for a E6900, with 24 processors and 250GB.  If the performance is adequate, my client is prepared to provide a testimonial at the time or corporate
<persia> DktrKranz: Yep.
<DktrKranz> persia, hi
<DktrKranz> i assigned myself a couple of bugs you reported
<DktrKranz> I didn't notice you were original reporter
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.  Which ones?
<DktrKranz> malone 115120
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115120 in openrpg "Optional dependency on python-wxgtk2.4" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115120
<DktrKranz> if you want to proceed, go ahead
<persia> DktrKranz: If I create a bug, and don't assign myself, I'm not going to get to it soon.  It would be great if you took care of those.  I was just formatting a BTS submission for bacula: would you imnd taking care of that as well?
<DktrKranz> I'll go for them soon
<DktrKranz> just asked, I don't want to duplicate efforts
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks a lot.
<persia> DktrKranz: No worries.  People should be assigning themselves if they are going to do the work.  Bugs created by people you know are usually nice, as you have a handy test participant.
<StevenK> persia: "at the time or corporate ...." ?
<DktrKranz> see you guys
<persia> StevenK: The rest is continued mealy corporatespeak, and in the same vein.  When sufficiently remunerated, I produce pages of that on demand, but it's really not worth reading unless you are specifically going to try to con Sun out of a big box (or similar type of thing) :)
<StevenK> Haha
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<pochu> hi DarkSun88 
<Fujitsu> Hi DarkSun88.
<ScottK> Hi DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> pochu ScottK Fujitsu: Hi
<xxxxx1> morning!
<Treenaks> yyyyy2
<sorsis> apache and apache tomcat should definetealy be as .deb
<Fujitsu> Both are, as far as I know. We wouldn't get anywhere without the former.
<zul_>  /win 11
<ScottK> Is there a rule of thumb on how long to wait to poke the archive admins about getting a *-proposed update published so we can start testing?
<pochu> ScottK: liferea was uploaded about three days ago, and isn't there yet :/
<pochu> ScottK: so if you're going to poke the admins, let me know! :)
<ScottK> pochu: The one I'm thinking about has been 10 days, but there was UDS last week.  I think Friday is the usual day for pitti to deal with such things, so unless someone suggests otherwise, I'll probably ping him on Monday.
<dothebart> hm, my packages are up at revu. what next steps would i have to take?
<pochu> ScottK: sounds good in that case :)
<xxxxx1> dothebart: wait for review process
<pochu> ScottK: or we can poke pitti tomorrow :)
<dothebart> ok.
<ScottK> dothebart: It doesn't hurt to mention the url here and maybe a MOTU (not me) will be motivated to look at it.
<ScottK> pochu: I'd suggest wait until after his normal day to do the work.
<pochu> ScottK: reasonably :) btw, liferea update isn't critical, so i can wait
<dothebart> so, if somebody wants to have a look at my citadel packages, here they are over at revu:
<dothebart> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5160
<ScottK> Fujitsu: For the New Mentoring process, instead of hopeful, how about supplicant.
<dothebart> it needs http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5162 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5165 too.
<ScottK> dothebart: Are these packages meant to be Debian native packages (if you don't know, the answer is almost certainly no)?
<dothebart> i've also filed an itp.
<dothebart> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=423911
<ubotu> Debian bug 423911 in wnpp "ITP: citadel -- Citadel.org is an highly integrated Groupware Platform with" [Wishlist,Open]  
<dothebart> ah ;)
<pochu> dothebart: if you get your package in Debian, we can sync it, so you don't need to have it uploaded to both Ubuntu and Debian. However, MOTUs can still review your package to let you know about possible mistakes :)
<tudenbart> re.
<ScottK> dothebart: I'd suggest look into why two of those packages are believed by lintian to be native packages.  Also you need to deal with the lintian errors (except the NMU related ones).
<tudenbart> yes, the webcit ones are scripts that needed to be removed. i've done that localy here.
<dfrancis> Hello I am quite new to malone.  I found a bug in malone which has just come. The reporter seems to have provided all the necessary details. I made sure that there are no duplicates in the malone/upstream  bugtrackers. Trouble is I don't have the resources to verify that bug on my machine. Does that mean there is nothing useful to be done on it?
* pochu hugs persia 
<pochu> persia: now you can sponsor me! ;)
<jussi01> hello all!! :D
<ScottK> dfrancis: What bug?
<pgquiles> is there something like ITPs in Ubuntu? (I have produced a package which does not exist in Debian)
<ScottK> pgquiles: File a bug in Launchpad against Ubuntu and tag it 'needs-packaging' then assign it to yourself.
<pochu> pgquiles: you might also want to include it in Debian
<pgquiles> ScottK: thank you
<pgquiles> pochu: I'll have a look at the debian new maintainers page
<dfrancis> ScottK: I was just talking of a hypothetical situation.
<ScottK> pgquiles: One approach is to work with us here and get it into Ubuntu and then once you have a mature package, take it to Debian.
<leonel> hello  motus !
<leonel> hello ScottK 
<ScottK> dfrancis: OK.  #ubuntu-bugs is a better channel for such discussions.
<dfrancis>  ScottK: Thanks !
<ScottK> pgquiles: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/ for some ideas on it.
<ScottK> hello leonel
<leonel> ScottK:  does the  bug 87289  need really to be fixed ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87289 in squirrelmail-locales "Translations are not working" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87289
<ScottK> All bugs really need to be fixed.
* ScottK looks
<leonel> I mean  is it really a bug ?
<pgquiles> ScottK: how to I file a bug against a package which does not exist yet?
<ScottK> pgquiles: Leave the pacakge blank.
<ScottK> Say in the title {packagname} needs packaging and then put the same stuff you'd put in an ITP in the description.  Finally add the tag "needs-packaging"
<ScottK> leonel: Is it maybe a documentation issue?
<ScottK> You figured out how to do it, but obviously others didn't?
<leonel> ScottK:  I was thinking  to put that  in the readme.Debian
<ScottK> leonel: I think that's good.  There is also a wiki page on squirrelmail.  I think it should be mentioned there (you can edit the page and add it yourself).
<ScottK> leonel: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Squirrelmail
<leonel> working ..
<ScottK> excellent
<pgquiles> ScottK: ok, bug filed. What do I do now?
<ScottK> What bug number?
* ScottK will look at it.
<pgquiles> ScottK: 115240
<ScottK> Bug 115240
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115240 in Ubuntu "ITP libtomcrypt needs packaging" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115240
<pgquiles> ScottK: it's the first step towards packaging snmp++
<ScottK> I see.
<ScottK> pgquiles: You didn't assign it to yourself.
<ScottK> pgquiles: I set the importance to wishlist (you wouldn't be able to do that).  Assign it to yourself and then go make the package is what's next.
<ScottK> !REVU | pgquiles is where you put your package when it's ready to be looked at.
<ubotu> pgquiles is where you put your package when it's ready to be looked at.: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ScottK> That didn't work out quite right....
<pgquiles> ScottK: how to I assign it to myself? I don't find the option :-?
<ScottK> Ah
<ScottK> Where it says Affects and has Ubuntu below it, click on the Ubuntu.
<ScottK> That'll give you the spot to assign it.
<pgquiles> ScottK: ah, ok. Thank you
<pgquiles> ScottK: package is already done
<ScottK> No problem.  The launchpad UI is not always intuitive.
<ScottK> Then upload it to REVU.
<pgquiles> I'll do when I'm at home, I do not have my private key here :-/
<pgquiles> I can't sign the packages right now
<ScottK> OK.  The other then I forgot was to mention setting it to "In Progress".  I did that for you.
<ScottK> pgquiles: Before you can upload to REVU, you will need to add the e-mail address you are going to use for signing and your public key to your launchpad profile, join this team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-contributors, and then ask here to have the REVU keyring sync'ed.
<pgquiles> ScottK: thank you
<ScottK> pgquiles: Thank you for showing up to contribute.
<pgquiles> ScottK: actually, you should thank my company. This is work :-)
<ScottK> Even better...
<jussi01> hei all, if someone could look over my latest revision of mnemosyne on revu that would be great!!!
<jussi01> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5174
<ScottK> jussi01: Will it not work with Python 2.5?
<cbx33> hey guys ..... 
<cbx33> http://people.cs.vt.edu/~codemac/shots/screen2006.04.18_02.49.png
<cbx33> what's going on with this terminal window here?
<cbx33> with the line breakers etc?
<cbx33> is this just some custom command prompt?
<Treenaks> looks like a custom prompt, yes
<cbx33> presumably it must be tied to the width of the window?
<cbx33> and they are using screen
<Treenaks> cbx33: you can run a _program_ to output things that will become your prompt
<Treenaks> those programs could request terminal width/height if they wanted to
<ScottK> jussi01: Generally if you're going to ask for comments it's nice to be around to respond to them ....
<Treenaks> cbx33: using screen doesn't matter :)
<cbx33> no but what are those like tabs at the bottom of the screen?
<cbx33> and the date in the bottom right corner
<Treenaks> cbx33: that's screen.. you can probably theme it as well
<cbx33> how'd that get there?
<cbx33> my screen has always been rather plain
<geser> cbx33: something like 'hardstatus alwayslastline "%{.bW}%-w%{.rW}%n %t%{-}%+w %=%{..G} %H %{..Y} %Y-%m-
<geser> %d %c "'
<geser> in your .screenrc
<cbx33> wow geser
<cbx33> geser....you rock ;)
<geser> man screen tells you more about the possibilities to format the status line
<cbx33> yes
* Treenaks sticks to a slightly-tuned screen (Ctrl+X instead of Ctrl+A as an escape) and the default prompt :)
<cbx33> geser, where did you find the information in screen for how to display hostname etc?
<cbx33> ahh i got it
<paran> if a package is synced from debian to ubuntu and debian later releases a new version, will that version be synced automagically or is a sync request needed?
<cbx33> Treenaks: you mentioned programs that output things to become the prompt
<cbx33> just how does someone do that?
<ScottK> paran: Up to a point it's automatic.  See the development schedule for Gutsy for the date it switches.
<paran> ScottK: ah, 
<paran> ScottK: so until DebianImportFreeze it will happen automatically, as long as the ubuntu version is the same as the debian version?
<ScottK> Yes
<jussi01> ScottK: my appologies, the wife decided she was more important than my pc... :D
<ScottK> jussi01: I totally understand.
<jussi01> :D
<ScottK> I'd do that same.
<paran> ScottK: great, then I don't need to file a new sync request bug :)
<ScottK> No
<jussi01> so, no it wont work with 2,5 sadly...
<ScottK> paran: As long as there isn't an Ubuntu difference.
<cbx33> hhh i think i see
<ScottK> jussi01: First step then is to go whine to upstream about that if you haven't already as that'll eventually have to be fixed.
<jussi01> ScottK: ok :d
<ScottK> jussi01: What specifc problems does it have?  Maybe we can work around them.
<jussi01> ScottK: just doesnt build....
<jussi01> cant remeber the exact issue...
<ScottK> jussi01: OK.  See if you can reproduce it.  Python 2.5 is the default Python for Gutsy and so the package should be able to work with it.
<paran> ScottK: yeah, I got that. thanks :)
<jussi01> ok, ill let you know....
<ScottK> paran: OK.  Just making sure.
<paran> ScottK: :)
<dothebart> ScottK: is it possible that it thinks its an nmu because of my name in the commit looks different than my gpg key one?
<dothebart> though the email address is the same?
<ScottK> dothebart: NMU is a Debian thing that we don't worry about because we team maintain.
<ScottK> I was saying worry about the lintian errors EXCEPT the NMU ones.
<dothebart> ok.
<dothebart> i've still got them:
<dothebart> W: citadel source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<dothebart> W: citadel source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 7.09-16
<ScottK> Yes.  Ignore them.
<dothebart> ok.
<ScottK> dothebart: You're version number is, however not correct for Ubuntu
<dothebart> what should it be like?
<ScottK> dothebart: Please give me the url for that package on REVU again?
* ScottK will look
<dothebart> it was more wrong there..
<dothebart> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5160
<ScottK> No problem.
<ScottK> dothebart: Is this package in Debian already?
<dothebart> no.
<dothebart> but i've filed an itp
<dothebart> as i mentioned above : http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=423911
<ubotu> Debian bug 423911 in wnpp "ITP: citadel -- Citadel.org is an highly integrated Groupware Platform with" [Wishlist,Open]  
<ScottK> OK.  Then your debian changelog should just have a single entry with the current version and something like * Initial Debian package for Ubuntu.
<ScottK> Right.  Juggling several balls at the moment.
<Treenaks> "Juggling priceless eggs in variable gravity"
<ScottK> dothebart: Are you upstream for this program?
<dothebart> yes, i'm a citadel team member.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> It looks like the only changelog in the pacakge is your debian changelog.  That's not good.  debian/changelog is supposed to be primarily about Debian packaging.
<ScottK> Most packages have a CHANGES file in their top level directory.
<dothebart> hm, the original changelog was given up with the SVN changelog...
<pgquiles> how do I fix a native-package-with-dash-version error reported by lintian? I'm reading http://lintian.debian.org/reports/Tnative-package-with-dash-version.html but I do not understand how to fix the problem
<ScottK> Also, don't ship the debian dir in your upstream tarball.
<dothebart> yes, removed that too yet.
<pgquiles> s/error/warning
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> dothebart: What's the upstream version number of the current release?
<dothebart> the released one is 7.09
<welshbyte> pgquiles: what version number did you give the package?
<ScottK> dothebart: Then the Ubuntu version number for that would be 7.09-0ubuntu1
<ScottK> dothebart: Look at that and then look in your debian/changelog and see why my head spins.
<pgquiles> ScottK: do you mean in debian/changelog?
<dothebart> so i would have to have a seperate debian/changelog entry for ubuntu? or separate changelog for ubuntu alltogether?
<welshbyte> pgquiles: and what is the name of the orig.tar.gz ?
<pgquiles> version = 1.17-0ubuntu0
<ScottK> dothebart: You should have a package changelog that is not in the debian dir.  In the debian dir you should have a changelog that starts with just the one entry about initial package.
<ScottK> pgquiles: 1.17-0ubuntu1
<welshbyte> pgquiles: technically it should end with ubuntu1 because you're changing it for ubuntu
<dothebart> hm, but in that changelog i've just put the notes about what was changed for the package?
<ScottK> dothebart: Think about this in terms of two completely separate people doing the work.  Upstream releases a package and then the packager puts in into the Debian package management system.
<leonel> ScottK: so to  ask por   python-psycopg2  from feisty to dapper   .. the same  as squirrelmail ?
<ScottK> dothebart: What goes in debian/changelog is just the work that the pacakger does.
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.
<dothebart> yes, thats what i put in there.
<leonel> ok
<ScottK> leonel: Backports take a while to get processed.
<dothebart> the changes i've made to the debian postinst scripts and so on...
<leonel> ok
<jussi01> ScottK: I dont know why, but it orks with 2.5 now... which is nice :D
<jussi01> s/orks/works
<dothebart> and whether the package now is a new upstream release...
<dothebart> else apt wouldn't fetch newer packages from my repo after me uploading them...
<ScottK> dothebart: None of that's ever gotten into Ubuntu or Debian before, right?
<dothebart> i'm confused.
<ScottK> OK
<dothebart> none of what?
<dothebart> isn't the changelog here for the package maintainer?
<ScottK> All of that history.  None of those versions listed in debian/changelog have been in Debian, have they?
<dothebart> no, they weren't
<ScottK> OK.  Then from the perspective of the package, history starts now.
<dothebart> they just were in my own repo.
<ScottK> Right.  
<dothebart> but i can start of with a higher version number?
<dothebart> or do i have to start with a -1
<dothebart> ?
<ScottK> Start with current upstream version number -0ubuntu1.
<ScottK> Once you get it into Debian, the initial package from Debian will be -1 and we want their version number to be higher than ours (we sync from Debian when we can).
<dothebart> and it should only just be -?ubuntu?
<ScottK> Yes, so 7.09-0ubuntu1
<dothebart> ah, ok. understood.
<dothebart> how do i best keep _my_ repo maintainable for the ones that use it so far?
<ScottK> As we work through the REVU process, don't change the version number.  You only increment versions after it's been published in the official archive.
<ScottK> dothebart: Good question.
<ScottK> What's the highest version in your repo?
<dothebart> hm, it should be 7.09-16 i think
<ScottK> OK.  Can you get citadel to do a 7.10 release?  There are version number games we can play, but that would be the cleanest.
<dothebart> yes, there hopefully is going to be a new release soon.
<ScottK> OK.  In that case I'd say use 7.09-0ubuntu1 here, for now while we get your package worked out.  
<dothebart> ok.
<ScottK> The idea would be to have 7.10-0ubuntu1 be what's actually uploaded.  That'll be a clean upgrade path from your repo.
<dothebart> in a fresh changelog?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Also, please make sure that 7.10 doesn't ship the debian dir in their tarball.  It just gets confusing.
<dothebart> yes, ok.
<ScottK> dothebart: Also, it would be REALLY good if they would ship a CHANGES file.  Otherwise how is one to know?
<dothebart> hm, svn log >CHANGELOG ?
<ScottK> dothebart: That'll work although svn logs tend to be pretty chatty in my experience.  Better than nothing.
<ScottK> Usually called CHANGES
<dothebart> ok.
<ScottK> dothebart: Looking at the documentation a bit I see you have an option to disable other MTAs (ACT_AS_MTA) - You can't do that.
<ScottK> Packages are not allowed to interfere with other packages.
<dothebart> thats totaly turned of in the deb
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> That's good.
<dothebart> unless you call citadel setup by hand.
<ScottK> Hmmm
<dothebart> it will replace the mta if you install the citadel-mta package
<ScottK> So it provides MTA.  OK.
<ScottK> That's reasonable.
<dothebart> though you shouldn't, but the postinst scripts need the binary to preconfigure citadel.
<ScottK> You can do that with provides and conflicts.
<dothebart> on my production box, i run it with a postfix in front of it.
<ScottK> OK.
<dothebart> so, to be able to have such a mixed mode setup, i didn't want to make the core package provide "mta"
<ScottK> Good plan.
<dothebart> the mta package just ships citadels /usr/sbin/sendmail replacement, which is actualy the same binary as /usr/sbin/citmail
<dothebart> which is a tiny lmtp adaptor.
<ScottK> OK.
<pgquiles> I made some changes to the debian/control file and now I'm only getting a .tar.gz file, not a .orig.tar.gz and a .diff.tar.gz. I think the problem is I changed "Source: libtomcrypt" to "Source: libtomcrypt0" in debian/control, how can I have "Source: libtomcrypt0" and still have my .orig.tar.gz and .diff.tar.gz?
<dothebart> by now i didn't figure out a smart plan to alter citserver not trying to bind port 25 depending on whether mta is installed or not...
<ScottK> dothebart: One thing to keep in mind with your packaging this is that Postfix is the preferred MTA for Ubuntu.  
<dothebart> i'm of no intend to change that.
<ScottK> Right.  Just thinking your packaging ought to lean that way.
<dothebart> citserver will send a local hostmaster mesage it wasn't able to bind a port.
<dothebart> which tells the user to either remove the other program, or to disable it in citadels config.
<ScottK> In debian/control, Suggests: citadel-mta could perhaps be different.  You depend on some MTA being there (but agnostic about which one), right?
<dothebart> well, it should be able to deliver to lmtp
<dothebart> postfix and qpsmtp are, there is a qmail handwork howto too...
<sacater> imbrandon: just got back from school
<sacater> imbrandon: sent a mail
<ScottK> dothebart: Does citadel server work is there is no MTA?
<dothebart> yes, it can do mta's job.
<cbx33> hey Treenaks
<dothebart> though you should install the mta package in my layout...
<cbx33> i kinda did it
<Treenaks> cbx33: the prompt thing?
<cbx33> so i wrote a python program that exported a line of ----  depending on the terminal width
<cbx33> yes
<ScottK> dothebart: What I was thinking, was instead of the suggests, Depends: postfix | citadel-mta | mail-transport-agent
<cbx33> but the problem is I use that in the PS1 variable
<dothebart> as it provides sendmail to for example cron
<cbx33> however of course I didn't think it only evaluates it once
<cbx33> can you think of a way to re run the progbram each time?
<dothebart> hm, what if the postfix / citadel-mta sequence is swapped?
<ScottK> dothebart: What's the preferred MTA for Ubuntu?
<ScottK> dothebart: Is there a reasone to prefer citadel-mta over Postfix that's related to the functions your package performs?
<dothebart> well, on debian it would be exim... 
<ScottK> dothebart: Yes.  That's true.
<ScottK> In Ubuntu it's Postfix.
<dothebart> yes, if you use the citadel mta you don't have to do configuration in order to make citadel work.
<dothebart> else you would have to configure postfix by hand to deliver to lmtp
<dothebart> which would make it less 'turn key'
<ScottK> dothebart: I think that's something to mention in README.Debian.
<ScottK> Let me think about that for a minute
<dothebart> all the rest works out with 4 questions to get a running citadel system, giving you imap, pop, smtp...
<ScottK> dothebart: I imagine that would be fine actually.  If Postfix is already there it won't replace it.
<ScottK> dothebart: I'm not sure though.  
<dothebart> it would just sugest the user to do it when he selects the package?
<ScottK> dothebart: courier (which has it's own MTA) depends  postfix | mail-transport-agent and doesn't even mention their own MTA 
<dothebart> i haven't seen anybody using courier in reallife yet ;)
<ScottK> If Postfix is already installed, the depency is satisfied.  Your documentation should tell people what they have to do to Postfix.
* ScottK knows people who do.
<dothebart> the readme.debian would be inside the debian/ directory?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> And you should install it in the documentation dir for the package.
<dothebart> and it woud be ok to just have explanation on the issue, and for how to make postfix work point to a faq url?
<ScottK> Since you are shipping Debian specific man pages too, that might be a better place to put the info.
* ScottK is not a big fan of documentation that says go read our web site.  I'm not sure what policy is though.
<ScottK> Settin up lmtp on Postfix isn't very hard.  You ought to be able to include sample master.cf snippets to tell people how to do it.
<ivoks> or... enable it at installation?
<ScottK> ivoks: One package can't interfere with another package's config.
<ivoks> hm... well, it can (and it does):)
<ScottK> ivoks: Additionally, I've seen attempts at automagically altering Postfix config files to integrate stuff and it never ends well.
<ScottK> Hmmm
<dothebart> ScottK: there is this faq: http://www.citadel.org/doku.php/faq:installation:configuring_postfix_to_validate_email_addresses_against_a_citadel_server
<ivoks> ScottK: but you are right, this is all done with additional dirs (conf.d)
<leonel> ScottK:   so ...   what would be  the fastest route to have  psycopg2   with security updates in dapper knowing that  psycopg2 needs to be backported from gutsy or feisty ?
<dothebart> as citadel provides dict_tcp server implementation too...
<ScottK> dothebart: BTW, I just realized every where I"ve been saying depends should be suggests as you have it now.
<dothebart> ah ;)
<ScottK> dothebart: I think what's there is good, but it's clear it isn't a Debian packaged Postfix you used in your examples.
<ScottK> You should include documentation in your package that is correct for Debian specific configs.
<dothebart> hm, why?
<dothebart> i added general information, so people can find out, whether their postfix is enabled to do it...
<ScottK> Because you are doing a Debian (Ubuntu) specific package and the docs should work for it.
<ScottK> dothebart: I can help you with the Debian differences (In case you haven't figured it out, I run Postfix).
<dothebart> ;)
<dothebart> well... do a telnet on port 25 to ubuntu.citadel.org
<dothebart> ;-)
<ScottK> Done
<dothebart> hm, exim may use lmtp too.
<ScottK> OK, so you probably don't need my help on that then.
* ScottK doesn't know from exim.
<dothebart> google told me so... http://exim.inode.at/exim-html-3.20/doc/html/spec_17.html
<dothebart> if i started out documenting how the default mta of debian / ubuntu could be hooked in front of citadel i'd have to at least mention that.
<dothebart> one of the first things i allways did with my fresh installs is, to remove exim, install postfix, netcat, tcpdump and strace.
<ScottK> It would make sense.
<ScottK> First things first though and get Ubuntu with Postfix right...
<ScottK> dothebart: The other thing you might want to do is add a how-to for the wiki (later after it's published) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Postfix
<dothebart> what are the items you think that are not right for an ubuntu postfix?
<dothebart> as that sample main.cf allmost is what i use...
<ScottK> The thing I noticed right away was mail log naming.  I pretty much stopped there.
<ScottK> Also Ubuntu Feisty ships with Postfix 2.3 and Gutsy will ship with 2.4, so you can simplify things a bit by dropping the information about earlier verisons.
<ScottK> dothebart: You could also skip the stuff about figuring out which Postifx version you have, since you'll know that already.
<dothebart> hm, yes.
<pgquiles> in the "Depends:" section, should I put information about the actual version of, say, libc6 my package needs or information about the one in my distribution (say, in Feisty)?
<ScottK> dothebart: In case you are curious, this is how I handle debian dir for stuff I'm both upstream for and package http://www.openspf.org/Software.  I keep the debian dir in the sam svn tree, but exclude it when I roll the tarball and give a ref to the svn if someone want it.
<ScottK> pgquiles: Actual version number.
<pgquiles> ScottK: thank you
<dothebart> yes, thats how i did my script too right now.
* ScottK looks for the function key to add the missing letters in his last message to dothebart...
<tuxmaniac> Amaranth, ping
<tuxmaniac> bug #94742 and bug #112018 seem to be duplicates. Can any one confirm the same?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 94742 in alacarte "Feisty: menu management does not work fine" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94742
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112018 in alacarte "Alcarte problem" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112018
<dothebart> oh, funky. the debian emacs modes automagically add my email address to the readme.debian
<dothebart> whew. and refuse me to put in an existing email.
* ScottK never has such troubles with vim ;-)
<tuxmaniac> what! bug 112018 and bug 102527 are exact replicas of the same bug description reported by two diffeerent people. And I have confirmed one without checking this. My bad
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112018 in alacarte "Alcarte problem" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112018
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102527 in alacarte "[feisty]  gnome-ui-properties / Main-Menu, issue with separator" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102527
<ScottK> leonel: Security updates wil be faster for real security issues
<ScottK> leonel: Sorry, dropped sync on you.
<leonel> ScottK:  no problemo ..
<leonel> ok
<ScottK> leonel: You'd have to convince keescook you've got a real issue 
<leonel> so first would be  to ask for the  backport     
<ScottK> leonel: Remotely exploitable for example.
<leonel> yes
<leonel> if theres a security bug
<ScottK> Yes
<leonel> patch the feisty / gutsy version
<ScottK> You know how it works now....
<leonel> and  then  reissue  a backport   saying it has security bugs
<leonel> YES !
<leonel> ok
<ScottK> Yes
<leonel> so let me see if there are security bugs in  feisty's  psycopg2
<leonel> even  I already asked  for the backport  for  feisty's  psycopg2
<Hobbsee> morning all
<pochu> hiya Hobbsee 
<ScottK> Don't worry.  If you find a security problem, it'll get published long before a backport gets processed.
<ScottK> Good morning Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> pochu: :)
<leonel> ok ScottK
<Hobbsee> ScottK: :)
<pochu> Hobbsee: you seem happy :)
<Hobbsee> pochu: more just acknowledging the greeting
<pochu> :)
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi geser 
<Daviey> Hobbsee, I applied a diff regrading the naming the upload  yesterday that you suggested.  Would you mind looking through the rest?  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5168
<itnas> hi, anybody to talk to?
<itnas> :)
<ScottK> About?
<itnas> hi thanks for your answer, about the size of the terminal
<leonel> was in dapper-backports  sorry ScottK ..
<ScottK> leonel: No problem.
<pochu> itnas: I'd say that's a better question for #ubuntu :)
<pochu> itnas: this channel is for packaging
<itnas> ok  thanks  anyway
<siretart> Hello from lugcamp!
<pochu> hiya siretart
<Hobbsee> hiya siretart!
<pochu> siretart: how's it goind?
<siretart> pochu: we just arrived. bandwith is really short
<siretart> Hobbsee: hi!
<luisbg> hello all
<ScottK> Hello
<luisbg> where is the package for linuxsampler?
<pochu> hi :)
<luisbg> got the lib, got the front-end, but not the server
<dothebart> ScottK: where would i hook up README.Debian in?
<dothebart> citadel-server.files?
<ScottK> You put it in your debian dir and install it using dh_isnstalldocs
<dothebart> ah, thats already inside rules.
<dothebart> i know the nmu thang. its fabo being in control as uploader
<dothebart> i've uploaded a new citadel package, but it doesn't seem to be all there yet.
<ScottK> dothebart: Version should be 0ubuntu1 not 0ubuntu0
<dothebart> ah, sorry.
<ScottK> dothebart: No Problem.  Did you look at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/citadel-0705171350/lintian
<dothebart> do it again?
<ScottK> Not yet
<dothebart> my local lintian didn't say that to me while building the source deb
<dothebart> ah, yes.
<dothebart> these files apear because of it wants to do a make clean before doing the package...
<ScottK> Maintainer for Ubuntu needs to be MOTU.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField for details.
<ScottK> dothebart: Do you ship a copy of RFC 2739 in your source tarball?
<dothebart> uhm...
<dothebart> lemme clean that up.
<ScottK> dothebart: RFCs aren't DFSG free.  You'll have to do a repacked tarball with it removed.   
<ScottK> Don't forget to take the relevant stuff out of debian/copyright.
<siretart> ScottK: ubuntu doesn't consider the GFDL non-free. debian does
<dothebart> hm, do you mean that schema for ldap?
<ScottK> siretart: OK.  Thanks.
<ScottK> Not sure how that applies.
<dothebart> ScottK: i think it just complains to that rfc, but its not the rfc itself
<ScottK> siretart: The license on RFCs says it' not modifiable.  Is that OK for Ubuntu?
<ScottK> dothebart: debian/copyright has the licenense info for the RFC.  
<siretart> ScottK: Oh, sorry, you are talking about RFCs. I was misreading you talk about GFDL docs
<dothebart> hm, if i read the license statement in openldap/rfc2739.schema, it reads as if it would be bsd'ish?
<ScottK> Except for " However, this document itself may not be modified in any way"
<ScottK> I believe if the actual RFC document is not present it's OK.  That's why I asked.  I'm not exactly sure here.
<luisbg> where is the package for linuxsampler?
<luisbg> got the lib, got the front-end, but not the server
<ScottK> dothebart: I'd suggest looking at the openldap2 source package and see how they handled it.  The last thing I want to do is get a technically clean pacakge the the archive admins will balk at over licensing issues.
<dothebart> hm, ok...
<ScottK> Not saying what you have isn't alright, just that we need to be careful to be sure.
<ScottK> dothebart: Why is there a _rules file in debian dir?
<dothebart> hm, damn. 
<dothebart> the script should clean up the temp dir.
<dothebart> hm, apt-get source slapd doesn't give me any similar containing "However"
<ScottK> dothebart: I'd suggest investing some time in understanding the exact licensing terms of the LDAP schema so we get it right.  I certainly don't know.
<joejaxx> was silc support ever fixed in feisty?
* joejaxx does not remember
<dothebart> yes. i'm asking formorer, he's a bit more versatile on that.
<ScottK> I see in your inits you got the bit about /var/run being a tempfs right.  That's good to see.
<ScottK> dothebart: Good.
<dothebart> yes, i was here and asked about it some months ago, because of people complaining ;)
<ScottK> dothebart: You didn't need to suggest exim as far as Ubuntu is concerned.
<ScottK> Ah.  Good to see.
<dothebart> i don't want to do the work twice...
<ScottK> Good plan.
<ScottK> OK
<dothebart> the init scripts also work unmodified on a sarge.
<ScottK> Cool.
<ScottK> That's about all I have time for today I think.  I think you're on the right track here.  There are some aspect of your package I don't know enough to comment on and I didn't actually try and build it either.
<ScottK> You made good progress today.
<dothebart> :] 
<dothebart> i'll have a look at the webcit package with these aspects then too.
<dothebart> in order to install you need the libical package i've also uploaded.
<dothebart> and build...
<stijn_pol> Hello everyone! I would like to contribute because I love the community. Any hints for things I should read first... e.i. about packaging...
* pochu hugs stijn_pol
<pochu> stijn_pol: welcome!
<stijn_pol> thanks
<pochu> stijn_pol: there's some documentation online, you can start reading it and asking your questions
<pochu> !packaging | stijn_pol 
<ubotu> stijn_pol: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<pochu> first link :)
<stijn_pol> allright, I can't wait!
<stijn_pol> I already made a launchpad account...
<pochu> stijn_pol: cool :)
<pochu> stijn_pol: you can also contribute in other ways, take that you like the more! :) http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<pochu> packaging is cool :)
<stijn_pol> maybe you should check out my wiki:
<stijn_pol> wiki.ubuntu.com/StijnPolfliet
<stijn_pol> I would love to learn more about drivers, kernel modules, batch scripts .....
<stijn_pol> but first things first: packaging, allright!
<pochu> stijn_pol: also bug triaging is nice
<pochu> stijn_pol: feel free to join #ubuntu-bugs :)
<s-ndh-c> why is there no package for isomaster in the repo? is it just that no one uploaded one or is there some other reason?
<s-ndh-c> seems to be a nice peace of software
<s-ndh-c> piece
<welshbyte> s-ndh-c: it'll be in gutsy
<welshbyte> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/isomaster
<dothebart> ah, finaly got rid of those files.
<Daviey> Any REVU'ers free to have a look at my upload?
<xxxxx1> Daviey: you can paste the revu url here
<Daviey> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5168
<psusi> what mode does dh_install set on the installed file>?
<welshbyte> Daviey: i'm not a motu but it looks pretty good to me after a quick first glance
<Daviey> welshbyte, thanks
<welshbyte> Daviey: in the lintian file i think that last warning might need cleaning up but the others look ignore-able
<s-ndh-c> welshbyte: cool
<Adri2000> welshbyte: around?
<welshbyte> Adri2000: i am
<Adri2000> welshbyte: I am looking at your debdiff for xpdf merge
<Adri2000> your changelog says "remaining changes: Removed 90_CVE-2007-0104.dpatch", that patch has been added in Ubuntu, so it doesn't make sense :)
<Adri2000> and you keep the man page patch, which has been included in Debian
<welshbyte> Adri2000: i had to remove the CVE patch after MoM merged it in
<welshbyte> the man page patch was in debian? are you sure?
<welshbyte> (there were two)
<Adri2000> +  * Fix reference to /etc/xpdf/xpdf-* -> /etc/xpdf/xpdfrc-* in
<Adri2000> +    update-xpdfrc(8) (closes: #402852)
<welshbyte> the manpage i kept was for xpdfrc(5)
<Adri2000> hmm ok
<welshbyte> err patch
<welshbyte> i'll double check when i fix the other problem though, if you still think i need to
<welshbyte> btw, do you know why MoM removed those newlines from debian/changelog? i didn't do it myself
<Adri2000> I don't know, but I know DaD didn't do that: http://dad.dunnewind.net/xpdf/xpdf_3.02-1ubuntu1.patch ;)
<Adri2000> welshbyte: so, actually your debdiff is ok except the changelog. "remaining change" should be the man page patch
<welshbyte> heh :) i tried using DaD but it seemed to be confused about whether there was a conflict in debian/patches/00list so i used MoM instead
<welshbyte> Adri2000: ok, i'll get right on it
<Adri2000> "changes" means the ubuntu changes, ie. the changes between debian and ubuntu. that has nothing to do with MoM or DaD.
<welshbyte> understood :)
<ScottK> Adri2000: Would you please put a comment on a package for me? For http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5177 the build-dep should be on python-dev, not python2.5-dev
<Adri2000> ScottK: sure, what email address ? (so I can write Scott Kitterman <...>)
<ScottK> scott@kitterman.com
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Adri2000> ScottK: done, and there we see there is a bug in revu
<ScottK> It stripped the e-mail address?
<Hobbsee> flithm: which package?
<Adri2000> ScottK: yep
<flithm> Hobbsee: uhhh... I take it you were on one of the other channels I was asking in? :)
<Hobbsee> flithm: yeah, -devel
<Adri2000> ajmitch, siretart: in the comment area on REVU, < should become &lt; and > &gt;
<ScottK> Adri2000: I'm not sure that's not a feature.
<flithm> Hobbsee: gizmod (http://gizmod.sf.net) -- I'm the author, and I've been supplying a .deb through sourceforge but someone suggested I look into seeing about getting it into the official tree.
* Hobbsee checks for it in debian.  not there.
<flithm> Hobbsee: yeah I haven't been supplying a debian package
<pochu> Hobbsee: ubotu now supports debian search :)
<pochu> !info powertop unstable
<ubotu> Package powertop does not exist in unstable
<Hobbsee> pochu: so does madison-lite
<pochu> Hobbsee: right :)
<Hobbsee> flithm: hmmm.  ideally you want it into debian, then we sync it from there.  seeing as more distros carrying your package == better
* Hobbsee pokes whi
<Hobbsee> er, white.  but he's not here.
<ScottK> Maybe Fujitsu?
<flithm> Hobbsee: I getcha... so build a debian machine, create a debian package, and go from there?
<geser> pochu: ubotu seems to be not uptodate, http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/powertop.html
<Hobbsee> flithm: or if there's anyone here who's looking to do a package, particularly if the majority of the work is already done, and maintain it for both distros
<Hobbsee> flithm: how are you building the deb?
* Hobbsee looks for the debian directory
<Burgundavia> flithm: your stuff looks cool
<ScottK> flithm: You don't actually need a Debian machine to build Debian packages.  I do it regularly on Ubuntu machines, but use a Debian pbuilder to build the binaries.
<flithm> Hobbsee: well I use dh_make, then packged it up with dpkg-buildpackage?
<Hobbsee> flithm: great!
<flithm> Burgundavia: thanks! 
<Hobbsee> flithm: do you have the debian/ that you use for that somewhere?
* Hobbsee thinks PriceChild should do it.
<flithm> ScottK: sweet... I'd prefer not to have to build up a debian machine... pbuilder eh?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> flithm: Look at the script here: http://revu.tauware.de/~laserjock/ called pbuilder-sid.
<flithm> Hobbsee: yeah I have the debian folder: http://gizmod.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/gizmod/dist/debian/ I can package it up if you want to look at it (or you can check it out of SVN if you wish)
<flithm> ScottK: checking that out
<Hobbsee> flithm: current thing works.  at least it's not distributed in the main tarball
<flithm> :)
<Hobbsee> flithm: wow, this looks good
<ScottK> Adri2000, ajmitch, siretart: The e-mail address in the REVU comment is, however, correct in the mailed version of the comment, so it looks like a display/html issue.
<siretart> ScottK: sorry?
<flithm> Hobbsee: yeah?  you mean the debian build stuff?  decent enough to put the resulting deb into the main package tree?  I don't mind making any necessary changes or whatever.  I'm looking into pbuilder now to see if I can build a debian package first though
<welshbyte> Adri2000: ok i've improved the merge and attached the debdiff - bug 113365
<Burgundavia> flithm: have you played with any of the new input stuff in X?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113365 in xpdf "New version (3.02) available" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113365
<PriceChild> flithm, Hey I'd like to try and do this if I can...
<sacater> imbrandon: active?
<ajmitch> morning
<pochu> hi ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> flithm: i beleive the hardcoded deps are wrong - they should be provided by the shlib deps, and the .ex files shouldnt be there - but it's otherwise fine.  sounds good for PriceChild to do.
<flithm> Burgundavia: perhaps not! which new input stuff? 
<Adri2000> ScottK: yes, it's because <...> is interpreted as an html tag
<flithm> PriceChild: yeah of course! that'd be great!
<siretart> 
<Hobbsee> flithm: (assuming you want one of us to do it, instead of doing it yourself)
<Burgundavia> flithm: http://wiki.x.org/wiki/XInputHotplug
<Adri2000> siretart: for the bug see the last comment at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5177
<flithm> Hobbsee: Ahhh I see... okay making note
<flithm> Hobbsee: and I really don't care... I mean if someone here wants to do it that's great, I'm no expert -- in fact this is my first deb building experience so
<Hobbsee> flithm: it's still good for a first timer!  most upstream's arent anywhere near that good.
<flithm> Burgundavia: yeah initial versions of gizmod used XInput, but it's not quite powerful enough for some of the stuff I'm doing -- and I can actually support devices and event triggers that x doesn't support by forgoing XInput for kernel level input hooks
<Burgundavia> flithm: I would chat with daniels, he might be able to get that stuff fixed in X
<ScottK> siretart: I was commenting on Adri2000's issue with the e-mail address not showing up on revu.  
* siretart still doesn't get the problem
<ScottK> OH.
<flithm> Burgundavia: daniels is the XInput guy?
<ScottK> Adri2000: Input a comment for me on REVU and put Scott Kitterman <scott@kitterman.com> in the comment to say who made the comment.  When displayed, that just came out as Scott Kitterman 
<Burgundavia> yep, works for nokia
<ScottK> The <scott@kitterman.com> gets interpretted as an HTML tag and not displayed.
<siretart> oh, now I see 
<flithm> PriceChild: so are you packaging er up?  Is there anything I can do?
<siretart> hmmm
<flithm> Burgundavia: cool I'll look into that for sure
<PriceChild> flithm, Yeah I'm doing my best atm.... if you want to do it you can of course, its your work :)
<Adri2000> siretart: htmlspecialchars() :) but it's php and I'm not sure you use php in revu
<siretart> Adri2000: no, we can't. revu is python
<flithm> PriceChild: feel free!  would it be possible to see your debian/ afterward so I can fix mine up / see what I did wrong etc?
<PriceChild> flithm, yeah of course :)
<flithm> PriceChild: sweet
<Adri2000> siretart: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-February/250614.html
<siretart> Adri2000: can you perhaps craft a patch for revu?
<siretart> Adri2000: I have a very unstable internet conenction right now
<welshbyte> re htmlspecialchars - python's cgi.escape() should do what you want
<Adri2000> siretart: yeah I will try, tomorrow
<Adri2000> welshbyte: in the remaining changes you should also put the maintainer change
<Adri2000> welshbyte: and I will upload it tomorrow, unless you find someone else before. also please update the changelog date (dch -e)
<welshbyte> Adri2000: great, thanks.. i'll attach a new one shortly
<welshbyte> right, that's done
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso!
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<ScottK> Heya TheMuso
<TheMuso> Unlike you to be around at this time.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i've been up now, and earlier, for most of the week.
<TheMuso> ah ok
<xxxxx1> bye all
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you are nuts
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i know.  i believe it's called jetlag and such
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: and i had planned to change my sleep schedule when i got back anyway
<ajmitch> yes, and it doesn't appear like you've tried very hard
<Hobbsee> mmm...maybe, yeah
<ajmitch> having to be at work in the morning does actually help
<Hobbsee> indeed.
* Hobbsee shoudl really get ready for uni, and such.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: clearly i fail at everything, yes.  Thankyou for your great words of wisdom.  anything else to add?  :P
<Daviey> hmm... i have a problem:  one of my 'initial debianization' uploads has a debian wnpp intro...  What does that mean for me>?
* ajmitch gives up
<paran> could someone add a comment to this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4145 that there is a new upstream version 1.51 which is described as a bugfix release for 1.50 thats on revu
<TheMuso> persia: Congratulations!!!
<TheMuso> persia: You deserve it.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.  Now I just have to figure out how to sponsor bugfixes :)
<Hobbsee> yay, persia!
<TheMuso> persia: Its not that difficult. Debsign is your friend.
<Hobbsee> persia: like you upload them?
<Hobbsee> well, like you upload anything else?
<TheMuso> persia: And don't forget to be thorough in your ensuring things work.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: but breaking things is fun!
<Hobbsee> oh wait, i shouldnt say that, i got a package uploaded to main today...
<persia> Hobbsee: I've been a MOTU for 6 hours, for most of which I was asleep.  I've some studying to do :)
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
* TheMuso remembers when he was going to do his first upload.
<TheMuso> I was almost giddy ith the prospect, and almost forgot to do the necessary double checking. :)
* Hobbsee doesnt remember what her first upload was.
<TheMuso> I still have my first acceptance email.
<Hobbsee> actually, iirc, i had gotten all my stuff sponsored, so had to go look for something else to fix.
* ajmitch wonders what his last upload should be
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: doesnt exist.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: ??
<TheMuso> bbl, breakfast.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-18
<welshbyte> persia: congratulations :)
<persia> Just to verify, would `debuild -S -sa -k<mykey>` be a reasonable command to apply someone else's changes?
<persia> welshbyte: Thanks.
<TheMuso> persia: Would work. Don' tforget you don't need -sa if its not a new .orig tarball.
<Hobbsee> persia: yes
<TheMuso> chroot updating time.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.  I'll go with debuild -S -k then.
<ubuntu_> How come there is no seamonkey ?
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> gah
<joejaxx> TheMuso: :P
<joejaxx> ubuntu_: there should be for gutsy gibbon
<ubuntu_> joejaxx: Whoot! What was the hold up?
<ubuntu_> no Guts?
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: there should?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: yeap
<Hobbsee> cool
* ubuntu_ pins joejaxx to his word
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> ubuntu_: i was wondering that too
<joejaxx> ubuntu_: i actually packaged iceape because i might use it in fluxbuntu
<ubuntu_> Whoot fluxbuntu :-)
* ubuntu_ votes for ebuntu :-D
<joejaxx> ebuntu? which one is that?
<Hobbsee> ubuntu with enlightenment, i'd guess
<joejaxx> oh that is elbuntu
* joejaxx grrs at the ubuntu derivative stereotype :P
<ubuntu_> Heehee
<ubuntu_> there is a #ebuntu but it's been empty for like 6 months now
<joejaxx> ubuntu_: #elbuntu
<ubuntu_> Seriously? :-\ ?
<ubuntu_> Gotta go
<joejaxx> ubuntu_: bye :)
<joejaxx> this is great
<joejaxx> :)
<flithm> Hobbsee: hey you seen pricey in a while?
<Hobbsee> flithm: yeah, he was around earlier.  ahd to go to lecture
<Hobbsee> flithm: use pricechild@ubuntu.com
<flithm> cool thanks
<Hobbsee> flithm: or any other contact info
<TheMuso> 0/c
<TheMuso> gah
<ranf> hi
<Hobbsee> hiya
<ranf> hi Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
<jsgotangco> hey
<Hobbsee> hi spam!
<Hobbsee> dear $mailing list user.  The mailing list is not the bugtracker.  Please file all bugs on the bugtracker.  Kthxbye.
<wolfeon> heh
<RAOF> :)  Hey Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi RAOF :)
<Simon80> Hobbsee: so true
<TheMuso> Well, probably the bugs tag should be set to something else.
<TheMuso> Because that will keep happening if the bugs tag is set to the ML address.
<Simon80> heh, ...sort of like every mesa bug
<Simon80> I guess it's a way of making sure bugs get dealt with, spam everyone on the ML
<RAOF> So, is anyone actually replying to that guy, or shall I hit "send" :)
<TheMuso> No.
* TheMuso has just been out for a bit, and is returning to his coding.
<RAOF> Yay for coding, and extremely ambiguous responses :P
<TheMuso> heh
<ScottK> RAOF: FWIW, I say hit send.
<Hobbsee> go send.
<Hobbsee> 88% [11 Sources 378859/1175kB 32%]                                  19.3kB/s 41s
<Hobbsee> grumble.
<TheMuso> heh
<minghua> I need a translation for bug 115180
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115180 in texlive-base "no se ha podido instalar" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115180
<crimsun> hmm, roughly "haven't been able to install"?
<crimsun> my romance languages are fairly poor, however
<persia> minghua: It is not possible to install.  This output was produced when upgrading to 7.04 from 6.10.  (I think).
<persia> minghua: Oh, and "The post-installation script produced an error code of 1"
<minghua> persia: can you change the bug description directly?
<crimsun> persia: enjoying your newfound privileges yet?  :-)
<minghua> what is that language by the way?
* persia refreshes the Portuguese language pack :)
<nixternal> heh
<minghua> oh congratulations persia
<nixternal> something along the lines of it being impossible to install
<persia> minghua: Thanks.
<crimsun> persia: good.  Here's ALSA.  Catch.
* persia watches as ALSA bounces off the rear wall and flies back towards sender :)
<crimsun> officially I am no longer an MOTU.  Hooray!
<persia> crimsun: Congratulations !
<mischko> Wondering if there's a Motu here who would package the new pgadminIII?  The one in feisty is very old. 
<mischko> #bug 90120
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 90120 in pgadmin3 "New version of pgadmin3 available" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90120
<persia> Grumble.  Spanish looks like portuguese until you look at the words carefully.
<crimsun> mischko: feel free to work on the source package yourself.
<crimsun> there are several MOTU here who are knowledgeable and can guide you.
<mischko> crimsun, I'd be happy to give it a try.  I suppose I need to download the source from pgadmin.org and get it to compile?
<ajmitch> crimsun: officially you're still a core dev for many more months
<crimsun> ajmitch: shhh.
<crimsun> mischko: it would be wise to first check the Debian BTS entries for said source package.  Then I recommend investigating uscan/uupdate.
<mischko> crimsun, What's the BTS?
<crimsun> http://bugs.debian.org/pgadmin3
<mischko> There are debian packages for Sarge, Etch, Sid.
<crimsun> mischko: right.  It would be wise to merge 1.4.3-2.1's changes into whichever newer upstream.
<mischko> crimsun, can you outline this process? I've never made a package before.
<mischko> I don't see anything much in BTS.
<crimsun> mischko: you won't be making one from scratch; you'll be updating the existing Ubuntu one and merging in Sid's latest changes.
<crimsun> mischko: the purpose of reading the BTS entries first is to gain familiarity for which bugs might be closed in the newer upstream version.
<mischko> Where's a good writeup on the packaging scene? Something that explains terms like "upstream", etc.
<crimsun> there's a packaging guide on help.ubuntu.com
<crimsun> also in System> Help and Support  if you're using Ubuntu
<mischko> I've looked through both those sources and don't see anything besides how to install existing packages.
<RAOF> !packagingguide | mischko 
<ubotu> mischko: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<mischko> Cool. I'm off for some "light reading".  Thanks!
<Simon80> hrm, anyone know about the status of gparted?
<ajmitch> someone please suggest a time for the next MOTU meeting on the list
<Simon80> I want the newer version to get into gutsy, and then feisty, it's in unstable... but being in ubuntu's main, I can't bug MOTU about it :)
<ajmitch> (any time I suggest won't suit most people)
<crimsun> mischko: the packaging guide is under the 6.10 tab.
<crimsun> (it's not present under 7.04)
<mischko> crimsun, thanks for the clarification. 
<Simon80> that sucks, I couldn't find it that way either..
<minghua> packaging guide need more love, if I remember Laserjock correctly
<Simon80> heh, yeah
<Simon80> thing is, the Debian New Maintainer's guide isn't bad
<Simon80> and it wouldn't be a bad idea to require that anyway, so that people will choose to contribute to upstream instead of just Ubuntu
<RAOF> Simon80: Since it's in unstable, it should be getting sync/merged for gutsy.  I don't know whether backports cover main packages though.
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> or, right, they probably don't, bah
<Simon80> whatever, I can backport it myself
<Simon80> I guess that means I don't care either way, I'll just backport it from debian unstable
<Simon80> they finally implemented powerful moving capabilities
<Simon80> which I always missed back in the day when I was still repartitioning my drive often.. I've never used LVM, lol
<RAOF> Actually, looks like you backports *will* do main packages.
<Simon80> you wha?
<RAOF> Once it's hit gutsy, try !backports
<Simon80> !backports :)
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about backports :) - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Simon80> !backports
<ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<Simon80> nice
<Simon80> no wonder there has been so much more backport traffic
<RAOF> Why isn't irssi emacs?
<Simon80> I mean, I've seen those automated backport upload changelog entries... I just don't know how automated they are
<Simon80> anyway, I needed a /boot partition before my root one, and the new gparted can do that, the old one can't
<ajmitch> RAOF: why would it be?
<Simon80> I discovered it by chance, since I still have gentoo on my box
* Simon80 tapers off the rambling
<RAOF> ajmitch: Because everything should be emacs :P
<RAOF> Or rather, ctrl-a ctrl-k should kill the line.
<Simon80> lol
<ajmitch> RAOF: it does
<Simon80> I like it that readline has slowly introduced me to emacs keybindings for the past year and a half without my knowledge
* RAOF is stupid, and running in screen :(
<Simon80> lp;
<Simon80> lol*
<ajmitch> RAOF: ctrl-a a ctrl-k
<Simon80> that's what bugs me about screen
<RAOF> Yeah, I know.  Now that I've actually remembered the screen bit :)
<Simon80> mouse wheel support, actually, bugs me in screen
<RAOF> That'd be a bit cool.  Surely it's technically possible
<Simon80> yes
<Simon80> but the fact that it isn't there now is a dealbreaker for me, with vim and such
<Simon80> I could live without it, but it's annoying
<Simon80> like I'm using windows again
<Simon80> in windows, wheel scrolling is so horrendously busted
* RAOF *always* tries to wheel over an unfocused window.
<Simon80> and touchpad drivers do all sorts of disgusting hacks with the cursor to implement fake scrolling
<Simon80> which don't work on some windows
<Simon80> ironic that there would be better touchpad support on the free OS
<Simon80> horizontal scrolling and such
<Simon80> speaking of which, I don't think that works by default yet, that's a problem sort of
<Simon80> vertical and horizontal touchpad soft scrolling
<TheMuso_> Gotta love people turning off the power before you can shut down.
* white waves
* RAOF waves back
<ajmitch> hello white 
<white> hi :)
<white> ajmitch: i saw the mail send to you, sorry didn't know that you were a target :(
<jmg> target?
<ajmitch> hm?
<white> ajmitch: about your pacakges
<white> anyway how is it going here?
<white> did i miss anything? :)
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> nope
<white> i am playing UTOM now :)
<ajmitch> nothing happens here
<jussi01> good morning peoples!!
<RAOF> Afternoon jussi01 
<jussi01> my package builds perfectly, however upon installing i get nasty things like: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21389/
<jussi01> can someone help?
<jussi01> hello RAOF
<RAOF> jussi01: Linky to your revu page?  Last I looked you didn't have all the requisite python-foo in there :)
<ajmitch> missing stuff in debian/control
<jussi01> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5177
<jussi01> ajmitch: wich stuff??
<RAOF> jussi01: You might want to look at (my) specto package
* jussi01 gets...
<RAOF> That's got all the python-foo in debain/control - pycentral wants some fields.  Oh, and you *still* don't need both python2.5-dev & python-all-dev :)
<jussi01> ok, so what exactly does pycentral want??
<RAOF> XS-Python-Version, under your source package in control, and XB-Python-Version: ${python:Versions} under each binary package, I think.
<RAOF> At least, that's what I've got in specto. and I read the debian-python-policy while doing that package: )
<jussi01> ahhh, I see them in specto, ok then...:D
<highvoltage> 0/win 11
<ajmitch> you lose
<dholbach> good morning
<TheMuso> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-19
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<LaserJock> oh, it's going
<LaserJock> as usual
<Treenaks> LaserJock: he keeps on going, and going, and going?
<LaserJock> something like that
<LaserJock> trying to figure out how to address upset users ATM
<Treenaks> LaserJock: get off the caffeine ;)
<LaserJock> I don't drink coffee
<LaserJock> one of these days maybe we'll realize that shipping unstable versions of gnumeric isn't a great idea
<Treenaks> (or gimp)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: users upset about what?
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: they're users.. they'll find something ;)
<LaserJock> broken gnumeric that's not getting fixed
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: heh
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: ahh
<LaserJock> well, the patch has been sitting there in the bug report for a couple weeks
<LaserJock> nobody's uploaded it
<Hobbsee> ah yes...great...
<LaserJock> it's a four line patch that's got at least 3 "works for me"
<LaserJock> just sitting there :-)
<Treenaks> LaserJock: you're volunteering, I see?
<Hobbsee> no u-u-s subscribed to it?
<LaserJock> it's a Main package
<Hobbsee> u-m-s then?
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> actually I don't quite get the tasks
<LaserJock> bug #109204
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109204 in gnumeric "Gnumeric strange colors (purple charts) on bigendian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109204
<Treenaks> "Don't use bigendian then" :P
<LaserJock> yeah, that's exactly what all the PPC users are wanting to here ;-)
<LaserJock> *hear
<Treenaks> LaserJock: get new shiny x86 macs ;)
<LaserJock> well, *I* have one
<LaserJock> but my boss has a PPC mac
<LaserJock> course he doesn't use Linux anymore
<LaserJock> but if he did ...
<tsmithe> LaserJock: could you do me a review?
<LaserJock> saidly I don't think I can't
<tsmithe> you mean you can?
<LaserJock> in fact, I doubt I'm going to be able to do much in MOTU for gutsy
<tsmithe> that double negative confused em
<LaserJock> sorry
<LaserJock> s/can't/can/
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: why so?
<tsmithe> :)
<tsmithe> what's up ?
<LaserJock> roughly 40+ hrs/week on Ubuntu hasn't been great for my PhD and real life stuff
<LaserJock> I need to focus on fewer projects
<LaserJock> and I've got a couple specs to implement in Edubuntu for gutsy
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<tsmithe> good luck, man :)
<LaserJock> so, I think MOTU will have to be lower down on the foodchain for me :/
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: goign for core, tehN?
<LaserJock> yes
<Hobbsee> awww, 1 update today...
<LaserJock> I need core-dev for the stuff I'm doing in Edubuntu
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-20
<crimsun> micahcowan: If you just provide the diff, you'll need to attach a sign-off, too.
<micahcowan> From whom do I get that? And, if it's already been approved upstream (it hasn't, because I haven't tested yet, but it's light changes, fairly trivial)?
<micahcowan> I do have git-core installed, but have only used it for things like fetching latest kernel sources.
<crimsun> if you wrote the patch, you provide the sign-off
<micahcowan> A gpg signature against the patch, then?
<crimsun> what do you mean by "it's already been approved upstream (it hasn't, because I haven't tested yet"?
<micahcowan> Well, what I meant, thinking that you meant I needed to get a sign-off/approval from someone else, was, "what about the case where it has been approved upstream?", even though, at this moment, such is not the case. :)
<crimsun> if it comes from upstream, you either need to attach the sign-off, or you need to explicitly mention it in the changeset commit entry.
<crimsun> take http://preview.tinyurl.com/3b6nqn for example.
<leonel> is  there  a fast how to  to make  a .deb   from a  tar.gz ?
<crimsun> in that example, the patch comes from upstream, so I mention the author (Takashi)
<crimsun> leonel: see the Packaging Guide and the Debian New Maintainer's Guide
<leonel> crimsun: thanks   
<crimsun> the sign-off is required for any patch touching kernel source (Linus's policy to which we adhere)
<micahcowan> I'm not familiar with that. Alrighty, then, assuming I've just got a vanilla patch, what would be the process I need to follow?
<micahcowan> (a vanilla patch, and git-core :) )
<crimsun> first, create a separate branch from master
<crimsun> I'd run ``git pull'' while in master, first, to make sure you're current
<micahcowan> Ah. Well, I've only ever pulled from upstream. Where do I need to pull from to get Ubuntu's?
<crimsun> then you can ``git checkout -b your-branch''
<crimsun> ok, I think you'll want to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide , then.
<micahcowan> crimsun, I need to actually clone the repository, then?
<crimsun> yes.
<Hobbsee> hi crimsun 
<crimsun> hi Hobbsee.
<crimsun> dang, Creative sucks.
<crimsun> /* Sound Blaster X-Fi Extreme Audio. This does not have an AC97. 53SB079000000 */  /* It is really just a normal SB Live 24bit. */
<persia> Is it just me, or does dbus fail to purge for others as well?
<micahcowan> crimsun, okay, so once the pull is done, I'll run the checkout -b, make my changes, and then what do I run to commit to my local repo's branch (sorry, I'm git-ignorant)?
<micahcowan> s/pull is done/clone is done/
<crimsun> micahcowan: git-update-index <relative paths>
<crimsun> micahcowan: then, git-commit -e
<crimsun> micahcowan: then, git-format-patch -o ~ master
<micahcowan> crimsun, is git-update-index the equiv of "svn add", etc? I shouldn't need that, then: just mods of existing files.
<crimsun> micahcowan: no, -update-index marks modified files for commit.  git-commit actually commits.  You're thinking of git-add.
<micahcowan> Okay. Guess I'm used to tools that do that in one step (the marking and committing).
<crimsun> micahcowan: the ~/0001-foo file is what you'll inlineto an email and send to kernel-team at lists dot ubuntu
<crimsun> inline to ^
<micahcowan> Which I should possibly join, temporarily?
<crimsun> that would be wise, as it's moderated. :-)
<micahcowan> Aha. :)
<crimsun> if your changeset closes an LP bug, then you should use the Bug: # syntax
<crimsun> e.g., http://preview.tinyurl.com/325zck
<sladen> does that actually work now?
<Kmos> crimsun: at changelog he can uses LP: #number
<Kmos> launchpad will handle it
<persia> sladen: It's best practice
<sladen> I've been doing it for the last year, yet I haven't seen it actually work yet
<crimsun> sladen: I've not seen it happen automatically.
<crimsun> Kmos: even for git changesets?  We're not referring to debian/changelog entries here.
<sladen> ^Bug: [0-9] +  has namespace issues
<Kmos> crimsun: hmm.. sorry
<crimsun> Last I checked for the commits being merged into Ubuntu git, Bug: # wasn't being parsed for anything special.  AFAIK it's simply a reference to a bug.
<Kmos> they use bug #number
<Kmos> http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/ChangeLog-2.6.22-rc2
<Kmos> like we can see here
<sladen> crimsun: btw, saw you managed to get the Ubuntu Alsa workarounds into the latest kernel
<micahcowan> Kmos, LP automaticall moves to Fix Released if it sees the bug # in the changelog?
<Fujitsu> micahcowan: It will (but with LP: #123456 instead) soon.
<micahcowan> Sweet.
<Kmos> nice
<Fujitsu> The Ubuntu side of things has been implemented for months.
<Fujitsu> What's the procedure for moving things to multiverse?
<persia> Fujitsu: Things previously in universe, or new things?
<Fujitsu> It's currently in universe.
<Fujitsu> I presume you file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive.
<persia> I don't know then.  Perhaps ubuntu-archive?
<Fujitsu> (ion3 is heading over there shortly)
<crimsun> yes.  Simply ask for a demotion, and include the rationale.
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<Fujitsu> I love people being over-protective of their trademarks.
<Hobbsee> which for?
<Fujitsu> ion3 upstream has said that nothing is allowed to be called ion3 unless it has no patches, and is the latest upstream version. Debian has complied (and so moved it to non-free).
<LaserJock> I say some bug flames about that
<LaserJock> *saw
<Hobbsee> brillian
<Hobbsee> t
<LaserJock> anybody know if the backports policy is still that packages have to build without modification?
<micahcowan> crimsun, should I wrap lines on my commit comment, or does it matter?
<micahcowan> nm, I see that it becomes the literal Subject of the mail.
<Fujitsu> Aaaaaargh, my universe bugmail folder is sort of a bit completely flooded.
<Hobbsee> haha
<Fujitsu> Lots and lots of apport-retracings.
<Hobbsee> easy to filter, then
<Fujitsu> How?
<Hobbsee> depends on what you use for email
<Hobbsee> but search for teh email address, or teh  [apport]  in the subject would be my suggestoin
<Fujitsu> Unfortunately, they all come from pitti now, rather than a separate account.
<micahcowan> crimsun, what should I do if I need to redo the commit message?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahhh
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: then i'd filter via [apport] 
<Hobbsee> or "needs-*-retrace" in the body
<Hobbsee> i think i filter by the latter
<pgquiles> I renamed the source package. How could I merge the review of the old source package (libtom0) with the new source package (libtom)?
<Adri2000> geser: the fix for the libdts bug has just been committed (thanks bashelier)
<Hobbsee> pgquiles: which review!
<Hobbsee> s/!/?/
<pgquiles> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5189
<Hobbsee> pgquiles: you cant
<Hobbsee> pgquiles: upload the new source package, adn i'll archive that one
<pgquiles> Hobbsee: thank you
<pgquiles> Hobbsee: already uploaded: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5208
<Hobbsee> cool
<pgquiles> every point in the review is fixed now except for that "not sure that we need libc6-dev and gcc build-dependency (even versionned)" which I'm not sure what to do with
<Hobbsee> pgquiles: does it build without those two?
<pgquiles> Hobbsee: no, that's why I don't understand what the reviewer meant
<LaserJock> well, aren't libc6-dev and gcc build essential
<Fujitsu> They are.
<LaserJock> pgquiles: build essential packages are considered a given when considering dependencies
<pgquiles> LaserJock: oh, I didn't know
<LaserJock> so you don't have to explictly depend on them
<Fujitsu> We have nothing less than those versions, so they're not necessary.
<wolfeon> hmm
<leonel> correct me  if  I'm wrong  please 
<micahcowan> a kernel package build requires the abifile from the previous kernel. Where can I find that?
<leonel> I need  a package from universe  but I need the  newest package,  and that package won't make to universe  and that's fine, but I need to install that  newest package.  IF  I  do not enable  universe and install that  newer package  it should not  break any thing  right ?
<LaserJock> leonel: well, depending on the package, you should be fine with having universe enabled
<leonel> LaserJock: let me be more specific   I need  the newest clamav on  Dapper  and  the newest clamav on dapper can break many things  If I  get clamav from feisty   and install it  on  Dapper  backported  of course  but I have nothing else from universe installed on dapper  nothing should get break   right ?
<leonel> let me add puctuations ..
<Hobbsee> you may have trouble dist upgrading
<leonel> LaserJock: let me be more specific. I need  the newest clamav on  Dapper,  and  the newest clamav on dapper can break many things on Dapper if I have universe enabled or packages from universe installed that requires Dapper's clamav.  If I  get clamav from feisty   and install it  on  Dapper  backported  of course,  but I have nothing else from universe installed on dapper  nothing should get break   right ?
<Hobbsee> but it wont break while you're on dapper, no, due to the lack of updates
<leonel> Hobbsee: right  
<LaserJock> isn't clamav being updated?
<leonel> didn't saw that
<LaserJock> I thought we were working on a policy for that
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i didnt think the entire new version of it?
<leonel> yes
<leonel> keep always  the  newest version
<leonel> not  patched o
<leonel> or
<leonel> I need the  newest
<Fujitsu> It may be being upgraded.
<LaserJock> I thought we were making it an exception to the "new new upstream versions" policy of SRUs
<Fujitsu> But it's a very difficult thing to do.
<LaserJock> keescook would know what's up
<leonel> LaserJock: ScottK told me something  about   that 
<LaserJock> ah
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<leonel> but there are other packages I need to be  the newest  
<leonel> and  Hobbsee  hit the nail
<leonel> dist-upgrade could  not work
<Fujitsu> dist-upgrade probably would work.
<leonel> and probably don't :)
<leonel> let's work  that  new  policy of SRUs ..
<leonel> MOTUS   thank you,  always  open to answer   you ROCK !
<LaserJock> tritium!
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: who's got the latest and greates mdt?
<LaserJock> I think I merged in some stuff from you
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: There's some Debian removals stuff in my branch as of about a month ago.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: we can reject stuff from linuxmint, cant we?
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/115696
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115696 in hal "LinuxMint 3.0 beta2 hardware information crashed onloading" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: if it's a real Ubuntu bug I think we should take a stab at it
<Fujitsu> Kill it, Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: cant really tell what hte bug even is
<Hobbsee> if it's a display resolution issue, or what
<LaserJock> "Non of the *buntu 7.04 will provide better than 800x600 graphics on this system."
<Hobbsee> or the crash
<LaserJock> that implies at least that the reporter was having issues on more than just Linux Mint
<Hobbsee> exactly
<Hobbsee> which is why i asked
<LaserJock> I'd ask for more clarification maybe and specificly what happened on *buntu 
<LaserJock> I really don't know how much Linux Mint changes things like that
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Can you do something about plotdrop? Once that's done (and the various syncs are processed) we have a fully up-to-date science.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'll work on it this weekend perhaps
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<Fujitsu> Looking at my MDT branch, it has various improvements that you might want (http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/multidistrotools)
<TheMuso> Hey Fujitsu, LaserJock, Hobbsee.
<LaserJock> azeem is on vacation till the 23rd so I don't have a DD to upload for me right now
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
<LaserJock> but I'll try to get it fixed up
<Fujitsu> The removals feature is a little, well experimental, particularly when packages have been in experimental.
<LaserJock> ok, looks like I've already go your changes
<LaserJock> I got packages added to ~ubuntu-tex bug contacts today
<LaserJock> and had a talk with Norbert
<Fujitsu> Ah, good.
<mwolson> hmm ... how does one remove a corrupt .orig.tar.gz file from /incoming on REVU?
<LaserJock> one asks a REVU admin to remove it ;-)
<mwolson> could one such admin please do so?  :^)
<mwolson> basically: remove incoming/erc*
<mwolson> i'm still trying to figure out how to use the REVU system well
<LaserJock> done
<mwolson> excellent, thanks; i now have a working upload of the erc package there
<LaserJock> the important thing is to dput the _source.changes file
<mwolson> *nods*
<LaserJock> that looks better :-)
<mwolson> is the next to wait for an automated email to be sent to me?
<mwolson> s/the next/the next step/
<LaserJock> you won't get an email
<LaserJock> just wait a few minutes
<LaserJock> I think it's a 5min cron job that updates
<mwolson> sure enough
<LaserJock> yep, it's there
<mwolson> from this point on, the package has to be manually approved by N number of MOTUs, right?
<mwolson> s/package/upload/
<LaserJock> yes, the package gets reviewed
<LaserJock> when the package is approved by 2 MOTUs then it can be uploaded to Universe
<mwolson> should i email ubuntu-motu with the link to the upload on REVU, or just paste that link here?
<LaserJock> whatever you'd like :-)
<TheMuso> I would think reviewers are on the motu reviewers mailing list
<TheMuso> I usually find out about new packages from that list.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> although we're used to having automatic mail there, but yeah, that might be a good idea
<LaserJock> hola senor barry
<Fujitsu> Hail bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi LaserJock, Fujitsu
<pgquiles> in case somebody is bored and wants to take a look, I have uploaded what should be the 100% correct version of libtomcrypt: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5208
<mwolson> i'll assume that posts to gmane.linux.ubuntu.motu go to that list
<ajmitch> curses, just had a nice hard lock of the system
<TheMuso> Lovely.
<ajmitch> yeah, I blame the proprietary nvidia drivers
<ajmitch> since it went funny while I was playing a game
<Fujitsu> The nvidia drivers are known to do that.
<Hobbsee> therefore gmaes shouldnt be played
<Fujitsu> +1 Hobbsee.
<Fujitsu> (hi)
<Hobbsee> hiya
<mwolson> ah, it was gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel.motu.reviewers that I want, apparently
<zul_> hey
<tritium> LaserJock!  :)
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> Hi there bddebian 
<LaserJock> tritium: how's it going?
<tritium> LaserJock: Not bad.  You?
<LaserJock> same
<tritium> Good.  Are you going to Ubucon-Boulder?
<ajmitch> hi tritium 
<tritium> Hi ajmitch :)
<LaserJock> tritium: doubtful, I just got back from Ubuntu Education and Developer Summits in Sevilla
<tritium> Nice!
<LaserJock> it's still a little odd trying to explain to my boss
<LaserJock> ;-)
<tritium> Boss?  Are you working now?  Did you graduate?
<ajmitch> "you do this for *free*?!"
<tritium> lol
<tritium> I think my excuse to my boss would be that I do it so that my brain doesn't atrophy from doing the job I do during the day ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> my boss is understanding
<ajmitch> but my friends think I'm nuts
<tritium> Heh, the ubiquity windows can't be resized to fit a 640x480 screen, so I have to install from the alternate CD on my mythtv box (unless I wantt to disconnect from TV)
<tritium> ^ note to the mythbuntu folks
<TheMuso> Fun.
<tritium> TV supports 720p, but not until I install the nvidia drivers.
<ajmitch> tritium: got time to be an active motu again?
<tritium> ajmitch: I talked to crimsun about that very thing.
<tritium> I'm going to do my best, but it's going to be a challenge.
<ajmitch> oh good
<tritium> Yeah, we had a nice long discussion.
<ajmitch> we can do with every warm body we can get
<tritium> I know.  I'm going to figure out a way.
* ajmitch wishes this would fsck a bit faster
* Fujitsu apologises for being largely inactive lately.
<tritium> me too
<LaserJock> tritium: s/boss/advisor/
<tritium> LaserJock: ah, okay.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: more active than I am
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Still not very active.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Join the club :-(
* ajmitch should have used reiserfs instead, everyone knows that's fast
<LaserJock> tritium: my advisor did tell me to start looking for post-docs, so that's a good sign
<Fujitsu> reiserfs... fsck? Sounds fatal.
<ajmitch> racarr demonstrated how great it was :)
<pgquiles> now that I have spammed motu-reviewers with a e-mail requesting someone to review libtomcrypt, I think it's time to sleep. Please find the time to take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5210
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: it was unfortunately a moment of mirth at UDS
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Pardon?
<ajmitch> we were expecting a beryl demo, but got a screenful of reiserfs errors instead from racarr's laptop coming through the projector
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<tritium> LaserJock: congratulations :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: the end is in sight, and you're still sane?
<racarr> ajmitch: Ouch.
<ajmitch> racarr: you enjoyed it
<racarr> It was funny after the fact. Yes.
* TheMuso currently usees JFS.
* Fujitsu is quite happy with ext3.
* ajmitch is waiting for his 450GB ext3 fs to fsck at the moment, just added dir_index 
<racarr> Plus. I got to ask people if they liked my ReiserFS error message verbosity demo.
<mwolson> apparently it's possible to "double-comment" on REVU uploads by refreshing the page after making an initial comment -- sorry about that
<TheMuso> I guess thats one thing about ext3. Its well tested.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: THat's quite a large filesystem you have there. I think I've got almost that much disk space around the house.
<Fujitsu> mwolson: Unfortunately yes.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: just a raid array
<LaserJock> tritium: well, it's getting there. I have some hope. Not sure about sanity though
<LaserJock> tritium: I started an Ubuntu TeX team, btw
<LaserJock> that might say something about the sanity ;-)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: remember when I did that svn checkout of debain-tex and it was 22GB?
<tritium> LaserJock: oh, nice!  I might be interested in that!
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tex
<tritium> I'll check it out!
<LaserJock> we're going from tetex->texlive 2007 in Main
<ajmitch> yay, system is back & finally turned on cpu frequency scaling in the bios
<ajmitch> hopefully it'll run a little cooler at times now
<joejaxx> ah!
<joejaxx> ajmitch: are you good with apache 1.x?
* ajmitch wonders why people ask things like "are you good with...?"
<joejaxx> :P
<ajmitch> heh, found this photo: http://she.geek.nz/gallery/view.php?f=/pony.jpg
<ajmitch> or http://she.geek.nz/archives/424-taunting-Penny-day.html
<LaserJock> haha
* mwolson contemplates starting an Emacs Lisp team on launchpad
<joejaxx> mwolson: :P
* bddebian starts a nano team :_)
<ajmitch> ah crap
<ajmitch> 8226 messages (9 seen) for ajmitch at pop3.maxnet.co.nz (61712151 octets).
<LaserJock> mwolson: why would you do that, Emacs is perfect ;-)
<ajmitch> what happens when you had a broken mail setup & your isp chooses not to enforce mail limits
<mwolson> heh
<mwolson> too late!  :^)
<mwolson> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-elisp
<LaserJock> I thought there was already a lisp team
<mwolson> i couldn't find it
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/?name=lisp&searchfor=teamsonly
<ajmitch> only your team
<LaserJock> yep
<mwolson> there's a passing mention of a Common Lisp MOTU team on the MOTU page of the wiki, but their page is blank
<LaserJock> ah yeah
<LaserJock> I think that is an old defunct team
* Fujitsu recalls the gcl patch-hunt.
* LaserJock shudders
<Fujitsu> It worked, but took a while.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: There's a new annoyance fix in my mdt branch. patch links now link to the patch, rather than the directory.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: k
<ScottK> leonel: I was talking about possible changes to how we might do clamav backports (which is new versions).  
* ScottK thinks we need to do something, but nothing has been decided.
<LaserJock> anybody been using VirtualBox?
<crimsun> ScottK: what is the current situation (including problems), and what do you propose?
<StevenK> One problem is that clamav doesn't shut up when it thinks it's out of date.
<leonel> StevenK: yes  and for end users that message  gives them panic 
<leonel> even that for  clamav  I think  it's better to keep with the most recent version
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice if ClamAV didn't write their software such that it was inappropriate for distributions.
<leonel> may be because  it's not version 1 yet ?
<StevenK> leonel: I can't see ClamAV changing their procedures just because the version they happen to release is 1.0
<leonel> you're right
<ScottK> crimsun: The problem is that the 0.882/4 variants we have in Dapper/Edgy are unmaintainable given our resources in Universe, but 0.90.2 cannot be backported per the regular backports policy because it breaks stuff.
<leonel> yes I've tried that and was a no go
<ScottK> Actually the current 0.90.2-4 from Debian can't even be backported to Feisty (not that it's necessary).
<leonel> what I was thinking was to have in producction servers  universe  disabled
<ScottK> crimsun: My proposal is to make a 2nd clamav source package
<leonel> and  install from other  repo   the clamav and things backported  to dapper or  keep new  clamav  on the current  ubuntu version
<leonel> so if there's no universe enabled  no packages would break  with the  newest  clamav 
<leonel> but that would be for  some  ubuntu antivirus servers only 
<ScottK> crimsun: It'd be design specifically to be backportable, but because it has a different name (I'm currently thinking clamav-alt) a user has to explicitly install it, not just have backports enabled.
<ScottK> We could then have a page on the wiki about what was known to break/needed testing and then admins could make informed decisions.
<leonel> ScottK: and can That clamav-alt  would be  updatable with new  tarballs  instead  patching ?
<ScottK> leonel: No, but as long as we can keep backporting the lastest, it shouldn't matter.
<crimsun> hmm.  Is there any way this work could be done in Debian?  Are we dealing with process issues as well?
<ScottK> I don't think so.
<ScottK> They don't have so many supported versions.
<leonel> like gentoo ...
<crimsun> ok.  So "clamav-alt" will then Conflicts clamav?
<ScottK> leonel: If you install klamav on your desktop you can do that (it provides the functionality and I've tested it, but it's outside the packaging system).
<crimsun> Do you plan to ask clamav to be blacklisted from future Ubuntu devel cycle autosyncs?
<ScottK> crimsun: Conflicts/Provides, yes
<leonel> klamav ?
<ScottK> crimsun: It already has to be merged.
<crimsun> ScottK: ok.  So do we plan to retain clamav source?
<ScottK> crimsun: We'd still do the regular clamav package that would be supported per the current no breakage policy.  Alt would be for those who want that latest AV crack.
<ScottK> crimsun: Not sure I understand the question?
<ScottK> leonel: KDE GUI front end for clamav == klamav
<crimsun> I think you answered it in your most recent statement
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> This still needs to get fleshed out of course, but that's the basic idea.
<leonel> ScottK: need help  to test it ?
* ScottK made a 0.90.1 clamav package that works on Dapper, just had to adjust some dependency verions - I think it's doable to have a clamav-alt.
<ScottK> leonel: Yes, when we have such a package.
<ScottK> We'll probably make a clamav crack test team or some such.
<leonel> ScottK: Ok I'm in to it    I need to keep with the latest clamav  and  would be great to make it available  for all users
<ScottK> crimsun: Comments?
<ScottK> The alternative is to carefully test all the clamav rdepends (and there are a bunch) and backport them all at the same time.  I think that blows the backports policy even worse.
<crimsun> ScottK: I think it's feasible, but you'll really want to test from Dapper (LTS) forward through Gutsy+1 (LTS).
<ScottK> Yes.
* ScottK has tested a 0.90.X package with Dapper, Edgy, and Feisty and got it working.  
<ScottK> While I'm doing the current clamav merge, I'll see about doing a clamav-alt in parallel.  If I get something that seems reasonable, I'll upload it to REVU.
<ScottK> Note that clamav-alt will have to go through NEW, so it'll be a while even after it's uploaded before it could be made available.
<ScottK> leonel: Got a few minutes to run a test for me?
<ScottK> leonel: If you have a Feisty desktop, see Bug #108612 and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-May/001646.html and comment on the bug if it works/doesn't for you.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108612 in pythoncad "[apport]  pythoncad crashed with ExpatError in parse()" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108612
<ScottK> Anyone else too...
<ScottK> Good night all.
<crimsun> 'night.
<LaserJock> night Scott
<leonel> ScottK: I'll testit tomorrow
<leonel> got to go too
<leonel> good night !
<LaserJock> hmm, so Hobbsee's got a core-dev nomination
<ajmitch> yes
<StevenK> And 3 fan club members.
<LaserJock> well, I thought I was supposed to wait until after the TB decided on the "policy"
<ajmitch> but no word from hobbsee yet
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I'd assume so too
<StevenK> ajmitch: She needs to reply?
<ajmitch> StevenK: afaik it's not just a matter of people being nominated & approved for core-dev
<ajmitch> we've never operated that way
<StevenK> Is this actually documented anywhere? :-)
<ajmitch> "common sense"
<StevenK> What's that?
<crimsun> there's no existing documentation for -core-dev nominations and MC, no.
<ajmitch> it was never suggested to be nominations anyway, afaik
<crimsun> AFAICT TB remains in charge of -core-dev approvals
<ajmitch> of course
<LaserJock> well, that's part of the issue
<ajmitch> the motu council shouldn't be granted that power
<LaserJock> it seems like the TB (or at least Matt) changed the process on us
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> and it was changed to be applying by email, while getting testimonials from others
<ajmitch> the MC just acts as a secretary & gives an opinion
<StevenK> I don't think the MC shouldn't approve or not approve -core-dev members, but recommend people to made -core-dev
<ajmitch> it was never suggested that the MC would approve
<ajmitch> it was suggested that the MC pass on its recommendation
<ajmitch> and it's a proposal still
<StevenK> It seems Mithrandir and co preempted it.
<cables> Someone in #ubuntu-offtopic recommended that I ask the MOTU guys about a good Python guide. Can anyone recommend one?
<LaserJock> python in general?
<crimsun> what level reference for Python?
<ajmitch> StevenK: communication has never been our strong point :P
<StevenK> ajmitch: MC, MOTU or anyone in Ubuntu? :-P
<ajmitch> d) all of the above
<imbrandon> heya all
<StevenK> I thought the last one encompassed that.
<cables> crimsun, I know some perl, but I haven't coded in a while
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon 
<crimsun> cables: I recommend ``aptitude install diveintopython''
<imbrandon> cables, probably diveintopython is a good start then
<cables> crimsun, imbrandon, someone !info diveintopython-d me in #u-offtopic, but it said for experienced programmers or something
<imbrandon> moins ajmitch 
<cables> !info diveintopython
<ubotu> diveintopython: free Python book for experienced programmers. In component main, is optional. Version 5.4-2ubuntu2 (feisty), package size 340 kB, installed size 4220 kB
<crimsun> cables: you may find http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers useful, too
<cables> crimsun, thank you
<crimsun> cables: if you prefer dead tree copies, I recommend http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10013
<imbrandon> dead tree copies, heheh , first i heard that
<tonyyarusso> I heard it....and thought it was a layout style.
<crimsun> it's a special treeview :-)
<cables> tonyyarusso, lol, it does sound like it :)
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<StevenK> But people, you can't grep dead trees!
<TheMuso> StevenK: heh too true.
<tonyyarusso> well, you could scan, ocr, tee, then grep
<crimsun> http://pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/jsaccess/index.html is an interesting title (I'm making my way through the pdf).
<ranf> hi
<cables> tonyyarusso, sounds real fun :)
<imbrandon> anyone here semi experinced with software raid0 ( on ubuntu )
<cables> Is there any advantage to apt-getting diveintopython over just viewing it on the web?
<imbrandon> cables, offline viewing ?
<cables> imbrandon, ok, i guess...
<crimsun> wot?  You mean people actually unplug?!
<cables> crimsun, only when my ISP unplugs for me :)
<ajmitch> scary thought
<imbrandon> crimsun, not normaly by choice hehe
<imbrandon> hey not talking data integrity here, but if i use ext2 over ext3 will i see a diffrence in speed 
<ajmitch> possibly, because it's not writing to the journal as well
<ranf> imbrandon, maybe dbench is what you want?
<imbrandon> ranf, well i'm on a livecd atm so that wont help much
<imbrandon> i could use bonnie++ later
<ranf> imbrandon, can't you apt-get into RAM? Haven't touched a live-CD for 2 years or so.
<imbrandon> you can, the problem being though the hdd isnt formated/mounted, no biggie
<imbrandon> i /could/ format it mount it, test and repeat
<imbrandon> but thats too much trubble for the moment
<imbrandon> brb
<imbrandon> re
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> LaserJock!!
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i installed gnome ( ubuntu ) today , shhh
<imbrandon> just to try it for a week or two :)
* Fujitsu tells the world.
* dabaR hears about it
* micahcowan approves Zic's hostname.
<crimsun> imbrandon: beats running Vista as nixternal does.
<imbrandon> crimsun, hehe
<Zic> micahcowan: :)
<imbrandon> hrm adding drives to a sw raid0 shouldent be this difficult
<imbrandon> to figure out
<crimsun> micahcowan: It's good practice to keep the line length to 72 characters, yes.  Also, if you need to fix the commit message, just git-revert the changeset, then recommit with a fixed commit message.
<micahcowan> crimsun, yeah, I ended up taking care of it. :) Couldn't figure out how to use --amend, but reset did the job.
<crimsun> micahcowan: (or if that latter bit is simply too much, just git-revert your git-revert, and fix the commit message there.)
<micahcowan> Thanks so much for your help.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: hmm, 14 pages on the forums about having a "Restricted Software" manager for mono apps :/
<imbrandon> wha? 
<imbrandon> people are ignorant
<imbrandon> sometimes
<micahcowan> only sometimes?
<imbrandon> well if mono was restricted in anyway that would semi make sense
<imbrandon> but its not
<crimsun> nah.  I'm ignorant all the time.  :-)
<imbrandon> c# and .net are a ecma standard, just because MS came up with it dosent mean its nessesarly bad 
<imbrandon> 334 iirc
<LaserJock> of course it's bad, it's MS ;-)
<imbrandon> infact it wasent even all MS, HP and Intel was in on it too
<crimsun> cue conspiracy theories!
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> oh sweet, we also need a "preload/prelink" manager
<imbrandon> wow , yea , we need a "manager" for everything, that makes it real user friendly, give me lots of control panels then make something akin to MMC
* imbrandon stops
<micahcowan> crimsun, hey, have a link to a good reference on creating boot ramdisks? Back in the day, I always hard-compiled in support for the essentials (my drive, filesystems, etc), so I never had to mess around with 'em.
<crimsun> micahcowan: err, the new Debian & Ubuntu-style ones?
<crimsun> (well, not restricted to either distro)
<micahcowan> I really wouldn't know the difference, but yeah, that'd be a good place to start :)
<imbrandon> initrd mkinitrd ?
<crimsun> if so, see mkinitramfs(8)
<micahcowan> yup
<micahcowan> crimsun, yeah, I've read that. It didn't seem terribly informative.
<LaserJock> ah, she's back
<imbrandon> run
* micahcowan runs
<LaserJock> good thing I have my chainmail on
* micahcowan looks back, noting that Potiphar's wife still has micahcowan's cloak.
<Hobbsee> hi all
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed. what did i miss?
* micahcowan wonders whether anyone gets that reference.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: we were discussing your core-dev app
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: right
* micahcowan looks for another reason to refer to micahcowan in the third person
<crimsun> micahcowan: hmm, what do you seek?
<micahcowan> A howto? :)
<micahcowan> Or even a brief tutorial.
<crimsun> high-level or low-level?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: so if i'm supposed to respond, what am i supposed to say?
<micahcowan> crimsun, either should be fine.
<crimsun> The overview at http://lwn.net/Articles/191004/ is nice; /usr/share/doc/initramfs-tools/examples may help, too.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: `Yes please'?
<Hobbsee> right.
<crimsun> micahcowan: /etc/initramfs-tools/ being the magic cave.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, `Hell yea, bout time yall reconised!" hehehe
<Hobbsee> haha
<AnAnt> Hello, should there be a Comment field in .desktop files ?
* Hobbsee hasnt actually found out what the procedure is, so has just been silent, watching.
<crimsun> AnAnt: it's good practice.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: that's because no one's clear on the procedure  :-)
<AnAnt> crimsun: what's difference between Comment & GenericName ?
<crimsun> MC's charter doesn't cover core-dev, really, which is all but confusing
<Hobbsee> crimsun: right.  i believe mithrandir was just actign on the info he was told in -devel
<LaserJock> AnAnt: probably you should read the .desktop specification at freedesktop.org
<Fujitsu> AnAnt: Comment is something like 'Convert audio files into other formats', GenericName is 'Audio Converter'
<Fujitsu> (taken from one of my packages, of course)
<AnAnt> ok
<nixternal> hey! crimsun, my Vista crashed again...since you are the largest advocate and #1 employee of Microsoft, why did it happen?
<Fujitsu> Although most packages don't have comments starting with a verb, that's what the HIG says is right.
<crimsun> nixternal: stop trying to run Kubuntu inside of Vista.
<Fujitsu> Ooh, nasty.
<Hobbsee> yay, nixternal with pointy-clicky vista again!
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> NOT!
* nixternal is broke, can't afford vista
<nixternal> plus I don't have a super computer yet, so I can't run it
<Hobbsee> yet you're running vista, which is crashing on you, because you like all the pointy-clicky-shiny-bling.
<nixternal> nevah!
<Fujitsu> Hm... Does anybody know why we don't provide diffs for Packages files like Debian? Is it just that Soyuz is stupid?
<nixternal> the only bling I have is a semi-transparent kicker
<nixternal> http://blog.nixternal.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/yakuake.png
<nixternal> see, that is all the bling I have
<nixternal> Hobbsee: http://packages.qa.debian.org/k/krename/news/20070519T231711Z.html
<nixternal> woohoo! within 24 hours it will be ready for some sync love!
<crimsun> Fujitsu: s/is stupid/'s side hasn't been implemented yet/  IIRC
<Hobbsee> nixternal: nice!
<Fujitsu> crimsun: That's what they say about everything.
<nixternal> Fujitsu: they sure do, and it keeps us content (sometimes) :)
<minghua> but what soyuz should do if it decides to start providing Packages diffs?
<Fujitsu> It irks me that there's no way to reduce all the waiting around for LP to grow features.
<minghua> one diff per dinstall run?
<minghua> (which is like, what, 48 diffs per day?)
<Fujitsu> minghua: I guess it would have to be, but that's a lot...
<Fujitsu> Publisher runs hourly, AFAIK.
<Fujitsu> Still a lot.
* minghua decides it's more about soyuz being lazy than being stupid :-)
<imbrandon> hrm where is the option to put gnome terminal tabs at the bottom ?
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> should be easier than Konsole you would thing ;)
<nixternal> s/thing/think || stink
<crimsun> I've not used g-t often, but I've not known about such an option.
<nixternal> use ~tilda with Gnome, much better
<imbrandon> hrm i always forget why i dislike gnome untill after i install it
<imbrandon> lack of options
<nixternal> plus the developer is a buddy in the ChiGLUG. He gets upset when I blog/talk/showoff/whatever/ about yakuake
<nixternal> imbrandon: what? lack of options...you are kidding right ;p
<LaserJock> imbrandon: hehe, the first thing I do in KDE is put the tabs on top ;-)
<nixternal> hola LaserJock!
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hehe but you CAN , heheh in gnome i dont seem to be able to
<imbrandon> :) heheh
<nixternal> have you had a chance to talk to Raphael at all? he bit the bullet
<crimsun> tabs, eww.  alt+F10 !
<nixternal> heh, split window yakuake ftw
<imbrandon> crimsun, ^A+backspace (screen)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: who needs options when the defaults are perfect ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahaha
<nixternal> shift+left or right
* Fujitsu abstracts the hardware abstraction layer.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: hmm, I don't see anything either. I've never noticed since it did what I wanted
<LaserJock> that could be annoying
<nixternal> LaserJock: it didn't do what you wanted, it does what you want it to
<nixternal> hrmm
<imbrandon> Microsoft gets is own TLD ( well starts using a country code domain ) .MS
<nixternal> strike that, it does what IT wants you to do
<nixternal> there, now that makes it 2 different points and not just 1 reversed
* micahcowan can't find it, either.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: That's been on /. for a couple of hours now.
<nixternal> oh Microsoft can get its own, but pr0n can't! what is this world coming to
<LaserJock> nixternal: well no, it does what I want, but I see your point ;-)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yes , yes it has ...
<LaserJock> why in the world would it need its own
<micahcowan> imbrandon, isn't ^A-a faster?
<nixternal> LaserJock: makes it easier to ban *.MS now!
<Fujitsu> nixternal: Heheheh, true.
<micahcowan> ^A-^A, rather.
<LaserJock> that's whta I was thinking
<imbrandon> micahcowan, nah i use ^a + backspace ALOT
<nixternal> that is the first things going into the proxy servers at school come Monday
<Fujitsu> Nice, nice.
<imbrandon> nixternal, cant, other things use .ms too
<imbrandon> not just microsoft
<nixternal> well, they get blocked too!
<micahcowan> Actually, I think he's right. I think I can type backspace just faster than double-hitting the A.
<imbrandon> hell microsoft.ms is avail for registration
<nixternal> unless they are pr0n...can't block the students from pr0n now, they would kill me
* micahcowan recently patched vim so that it can recognize mouse support under screen :)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Right. Register!
<nixternal> imbrandon: get it!
<LaserJock> micahcowan: really?
<nixternal> it isn't like they will buy it from you, but they will either a) steal it, or b) sue the crap out of you, beat you up, then steal it
<micahcowan> LaserJock, yup. Looks like it'll be approved upstream, but not yet in. And I haven't done the debdiff yet (today or tomorrow).
<crimsun> bah, just use red.
<imbrandon> nixternal, or give me a xbox360 LOL
<nixternal> haha
<micahcowan> It works because screen actually understands the "activate mouse" sequence, and ignores it for non-xterms, while passing it on to connected xterms.
<imbrandon> i still have two other domain projects i need to finish up, i should finish the google clone tonight
<micahcowan> Can't autodetect highlight-tracking, though, so it's xterm (as opposed to xterm2) by default.
<micahcowan> :(
<nixternal> imbrandon: ya, it seems they may have to start giving them away now since they can't sell them
<nixternal> our Best Buy keeps going lower and lower on them every week, yet the same huge pile is still there
<imbrandon> hrm
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder what I did to tiber
<nixternal> heh
<LaserJock> it's been chewing on a job for ~ 2hrs
<micahcowan> My current goal is MOTUship. What steps should I be taking, now, and when will I know I'm ready to apply?
<Hobbsee> micahcowan: packaging, bugfixing, etc.  and when are getting the stuff consisently right, and people start making noises about you going for MOTU, as your stuff is always fine.
<nixternal> I have been trying for over a year now...hahaha I suck!
<crimsun> I'll address the last part of your question.  When you're comfortable taking any source package in Ubuntu universe / multiverse, pointing out its packaging flaws [and possibly picking it up for leading maintenance] , then you're ready.
<Hobbsee> micahcowan: there's no set metric, per se, just as in ubuntu membership
<crimsun> [That's the same answer I gave Scot.tk] 
<Hobbsee> crimsun: what, a new one?
<micahcowan> Hobbsee, about which I was also confused as hell :)
<crimsun> Hobbsee: meaning a new source package?
<Hobbsee> doesnt that require knowing every programming language in hte archive?
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> micahcowan: heh.  yeah.  it gets infinitely worse when you're actually attempting to decide memberships
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: There are only a few families of languages :)
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: if you know a few, you know them all, basically
<crimsun> Hobbsee: no.  If one is comfortable knowing how to proceed with packaging or knowing when to seek assistance.
<Hobbsee> ah right
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: yes, and we're all mega-awesome people who know them all.  right.
<nixternal> hey, I can do that...I know when to proceed and when to bug, err ask
<crimsun> only the chemists with friggin laser beams.
<nixternal> and now workign with Debian, I know how to do debian/ stuff correctly the first time now
<micahcowan> :)
<nixternal> only took me a 100 times to get it down to the first though
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: Given enough time, yes ;)
<imbrandon> nixternal, its getting close to time for you bro :)
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: ("follow the docs")
<Hobbsee> hehe
<nixternal> imbrandon: this cycle most definitely
<imbrandon> :P
<nixternal> how many cycles have I said that though
<nixternal> heh
<imbrandon> 3 *cough*
<nixternal> I was thinking 2, but umm, this would make 3
<imbrandon> heh yup :)
<nixternal> Edgy, Feisty....and not Gutsy (not Gusty)
<nixternal> s/not/now
<crimsun> persia was going on 4, so don't feel too bad.
<nixternal> and I am actually giving a talk about packaging tomorrow...should be fun
<imbrandon> you started with the docteam and buntudot in dapper irrc
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> heh, and I was working for Microshaft at the time I started in Dapper...was actually working on it from work
<jussi01> lol
<imbrandon> anyhow time for a shower, bbiab
<nixternal> but it was cool...I didn't use Microshaft at work..I had a sun box :)
* LaserJock is gone for the night
<Hobbsee> bye LaserJock!
<micahcowan> 'night lj
<nixternal> I am thinkin' the same...need to be up in 5 hours for Linux Fest
<imbrandon> gnight LaserMan
<nixternal> g'nite 'mini-me quit humping the laser'
<Fujitsu> Night, LaserJock.
<crimsun> 'night.
<nixternal> http://tux500.com/geeklog/
<nixternal> heh, the Linux car was on TV a whole 15 seconds in one shot
<nixternal> and the entire time, they were making fun of the driver and that he qualified as the slowest car in the month of may!
<nixternal> great advertising..
<nixternal> but hey, there were be a few million toothless rednecks watching who don't even know what a computer is...
<nixternal> including me
<crimsun> you're a toothless redneck running Vista?  Impressive.
<nixternal> yeeee'haw
<nixternal> actually crimsun, you are in Nascar country, so you know what I am talking about ;p
* imbrandon bows and passes the title Ubuntu-Redneck to nixternal 
<nixternal> nevah!
<nixternal> imbrandon: that is all you man
<crimsun> nixternal: deep in the heart of it.
<nixternal> I might be moving out that way within the year anyways to be closer to my daughter in southern Maryland
<nixternal> I have always liked the carolinas *cough*and nascar*cough*
<crimsun> really? I'm moving to D.C. in one month.
<nixternal> orly?
<crimsun> rly.
<nixternal> where at?
<crimsun> ... D.C.
<nixternal> I used to live in D.C.
<imbrandon> nixternal, DC aitn that big
<imbrandon> aint*
<nixternal> ya, NW, NE, SW, SE?
<nixternal> definitely not the SE
<imbrandon> cant even spell non-words, jez
<crimsun> I'm still working on housing, never lived there before.
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> crimsun: NW and NE are your best bets
<crimsun> good thing I don't have a S.O., cos housing is going to eat me alive.
<nixternal> if you have to live outside of DC, pick the VA side
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Will this mean you get faster Internet access?
<crimsun> Fujitsu: aye.
<nixternal> MD side From College Park counter-clockwise until you hit Alexandria or route 1 is good living
<crimsun> nixternal: cool, thanks for the pointers.
<imbrandon> you know whats sad, i am thinking aobut moving to north kansas city because they just put in fiber to the house , city subsidized CHEAP symetrical 30MB/s both ways only $80 a month
<nixternal> I lived in Georgetown for a bit, on S and Wisconsin...I love D.C.
<Fujitsu> 30MB/s... Mmmm...
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, both ways  :)
<nixternal> imbrandon: AT&T just finished their fiber install into our neighborhood, but they aren't saying what their master plan is yet
<nixternal> they put up a pretty nice sized substation the past couple of weeks
<crimsun> imbrandon: as soon as you move, they'll have it in your old neck o'the woods.
<nixternal> haha
<imbrandon> crimsun, maybe not, because noth KC and KC are actualy diffrent governments
<nixternal> crimsun: if you want to have yourself a Big and Rich time, head to southern Maryland, St. Mary's County. That is where my x and daughter are. talk about toothless and keeping it in the family
<imbrandon> north*
<gpocentek> good morning
<nixternal> north KC still MO?
<imbrandon> moins
<imbrandon> nixternal, ya
<nixternal> heh, my buddy wants me to move to Topeka and work for whatever the electric company is there
<imbrandon> kansas city is actualy 3 citys in one, kansas city , kansas : kansas city , mo : north kansas city , mo
<nixternal> ahh
<Fujitsu> What's MO?
<imbrandon> missouri
<nixternal> missery
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> the "oh god please don't show me" state
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> show me 7 i'll show you 8
* imbrandon stops the nelly
<nixternal> but hey, you know your state kicks arse when the 2 biggest things it is known for is the arch and bigfoot!
<imbrandon> haha
<nixternal> I shouldn't talk, since Bob Chandler is a distant relative
<imbrandon> kansas city == bbq , fountains and jazz, stl == arch and ummm nelly
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> no way...TX == bbq
<imbrandon> tx bbq came from kc bro, look it up :)
<nixternal> although, every now and then I do enjoy a sweet bbq sauce
<nixternal> tx bbq == dry rubs
<nixternal> which I have become addicted to
<imbrandon> think about all the cattle that got herded through kc back in the day
<nixternal> heh, and you stole them!
<imbrandon> i think we still have the largest stockyards in the US, dunno
<nixternal> we will teach these people a lesson, lets steal their cattle and put this sweet, hot and what in tarnation sauces all over um...mmm mmm good!
<nixternal> damn, now I am craving bbq
<nixternal> 2am, I should go fire up the grill
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> we cooked some ribs and shrimp on the grill today
<nixternal> who cares about the neighbors...they decided to mow their lawn at 7am on a Saturday
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ahh i was off on the prices, but its still cheap http://www.linkcity.org/residential-internet.html
<imbrandon> and with the business class you get a SLA too :)
<ranf> Hrm, don't get that: http://pastebin.ca/498186 line 17. When I cd into src/icons and run make it works.
<imbrandon> ranf, because localy you probably have a required png lib installed, and in the pbuilder/control you dont
<imbrandon> is what its looking like
<imbrandon> brb
<nixternal> libpng?
<ranf> thanks, will look into that.
<nixternal> libpng12-0 seems to be the latest
* nixternal beds
<nixternal> g'nite
<crimsun> 'night.
<Hobbsee> night nixternal 
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<wolfeon> :)
<ranf> pochu, am I right on this one? http://www.bughost.org/pipermail/power/2007-May/000177.html
<pochu> ranf: yes, but I'm using 1.2.15 and have the same issue
<pochu> ranf: I was going to tell that to the developer last night, but it was too late :)
<ranf> pochu, no problem
<ranf> Hrm, I still don't get that: http://pastebin.ca/498186 line 17.  Tried to document stuff: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ranf/packagingViking
<pochu> ranf: reported :) Hopefully it'll be fixed soon in 1.2.16 :)
<ranf> pochu, cool
<mjgumbley> Hello MOTU, I'm new here but would like to get involved in packaging various Java applications - I'm reading through the Ubuntu packaging guide, but is there any documentation specifically on packaging Java apps?
<geser> there is a Debian java policy: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/java-policy/
<persia> mjgumbley: You'd probably do best to look at the packaging of a number of existing Java apps.  The best practices are still under development.
<crimsun> there's also #ubuntu-java.  vil, also an MOTU, is on that team, too.
<mjgumbley> geser, persia - many thanks. I was hoping to get freemind packaged, as I use it all the time on win32.  It's under https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/102755 - hopefully if most of the work has already been done for Debian, it wouldn't be too hard to take on as a "first job"
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102755 in Ubuntu "please sync freemind from debian contrib" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<mjgumbley> crimsun: thanks, I'll check that channel out too.
<mjgumbley> ubotu: I see that it's been approved - does that mean that someone has been assigned to look at it?
<geser> mjgumbley: ubotu is a bot :)
<geser> it will be synced from Debian by the archive admins soon
<persia> mjgumbley: If you want to package a new java app, there are a number listed from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging.
* wolfeon waits for ubotu to reply, "Yes Dave"
<ajmorris_> how close are we to getting ntlm_auth 3.0.25?
<crimsun> ajmorris_: when core-dev has time.
<wolfeon> *chuckle*
<crimsun> ajmorris_: I know Andrew has been quite pressed for time, but he'll get to it.
<wolfeon> crimsun: you could always use the flynn reply.. :)
<crimsun> He's not a Canonical employee, so give him a break.
<wolfeon> "send patches or stfu" :)
<wolfeon> :P
<sacater> i need some help, how do i stop Xserver from starting at bootup, so i start things manually, and I only get a console
<ranf> sacater, remove gdm?
<crimsun> look at /etc/X11/default-display-manager
<sacater> one mo..
<crimsun> i.e., change it to /bin/true or something.
<sacater> /usr/sbin/gdm
<sacater> crimsun: change that to /bin/true/
<sacater> ?
<mjgumbley> append init=/bin/sh to the end of your kernel line, in the GRUB menu
<crimsun> anything but the absolute path to the current display manager.
<sacater> crimsun: couldnt i just comment out /usr/sbin/gdm
<sacater> crimsun?
<crimsun> sure, whatever floats your boat.
<sacater> right, reload time..
<sacater> crimsun: nope, commenting it out didnt owkr
<sacater> work*
<sacater> oh hang on...
<sacater> wasnt using fscking sudo
<sacater> crimsun: that doesnt work, all my fonts go VERY WEIRD
<pochu> ranf:  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1717978&group_id=87005&atid=581684
<ubotu> Sourceforge bug 1717978 "liferea keeps waking up the cpu a lot" [Pri: 5,Open fixed]  
* sacater waves at pochu 
<pochu> heya sacater!
<sacater> tis me!
<sacater> pochu: dont suppose you know how to stop the xserver from starting at bootup
<sacater> actually
<sacater> give me 5
<pochu> sacater: uninstall it :p
<afflux> can someone help me with the merge of "om"? It looks quite wierd to me... The old ubuntu package uses a different tarball than the two debian packages, it seems that the last merge was using the ubuntustudio package with *some* changes merged from debian. Now we have lots of differences in e.g. the .m4 files, package descriptions, copyright file, manpages etc.
<persia> afflux: What kind of help do you need?  Personally, for different sources, I tend to look at the diff between the last merged Debian version and the current Debian version, and pick appropriate bits of that to apply to Ubuntu.
<crimsun> sacater: did you comment it out, or did you actually change it?
<afflux> I wonder wether I should take the few ubuntu-changes mentioned in the changelog and add them to the debian package or do it as you just explained
<afflux> persia: ^^
<crimsun> sacater: (I would actually change it, or chmod -x /etc/init.d/gdm, or ...)
<sacater> crimsun: i commented it out, and all the fonts go weird on xfce
<sacater> crimsun: change to what
<sacater> crimsun: /bin/true
<sacater> ?
<sacater> pochu: no no, i want it so i start it manually
<crimsun> something that doesn't contain gdm in the string
<sacater> ok
<sacater> hang on
<crimsun> hmm
<sacater> /bin/true it is
<crimsun> if you want to start it manually, then just remove the symlink in /etc/rc2.d/
<sacater> no ya tell me..
<sacater> now*
<persia> afflux: It depends on the nature of the change.  For different orig sources, often that was due to an -0 upload in Ubuntu.  If you think moving closer to Debian is better, I recommend checking with the -0ubuntu1 uploader to see why they made the choices they did, and whether things can be dropped.  If the package has significant Ubuntu variation (rebranding, different behaviour, etc.), you probably just want to cherry-pick from Debian.
<crimsun> sacater: you didn't mention that you wanted to start it manually, only that you wanted it to not start automatically.
<crimsun> believe it or not, those are two separate use cases.
<sacater> crimsun: i want it, so that when i boot up, i get console only, and i startx and fluxbox from there
<crimsun> nice, 2.6.22-5.11 boots on my hardware
<sacater> crimsun: S13gdm 
<sacater> do i remove that?
<crimsun> sacater: from /etc/rc2.d/ , yes
<afflux> persia: ok, I'll have a deeper look... thank you
<sacater> crimsun: here goes...
<persia> afflux: Please come back if you get stuck
<afflux> persia: I will definetly :P
<crimsun> yay, and systemtap works again.
<persia> afflux: Just FYI, the om -0ubuntu1 uploader has become inactive.  Try to get closer to Debian.
<afflux> alright
<sacater> crimsun: nope, the fonts are fscked, what about if we try just removing splash
<sacater> crimsun: so i dont get a welcome screen, might that work
<crimsun> sacater: what's the /root/ issue?
<sacater> crimsun: eh?
<crimsun> the answers I've given address not starting gdm automatically, not "*splash screws with me font appearance"
<sacater> no no
<sacater> it sort of worked
<sacater> no gdm
<sacater> but fluxbox wouldnt start
<sacater> and fonts were weird in xfce
<sacater> so i am wondering whether removing the welcome screen might work
<sacater> or disabling it, something like that
<crimsun> what video hardware and $arch?
<sacater> crimsun: er, i dont actually know that well, its a second hand laptop
<crimsun> there are murmurs of usplash not playing nicely on amd64 with ATI hardware (using fglrx)
<sacater> crimsun: would lspci be of help
<sacater> crimsun: its not usplash im on about
<crimsun> start with dpkg --print-architecture
<sacater> its the bit where you log in
<sacater> and choose sessions etc
<crimsun> then, lspci -v|grep VGA
<sacater> sacater@trinity:~$ dpkg --print-architecture 
<sacater> i386
<sacater> sacater@trinity:~$ 
<sacater> okies
<crimsun> err, you're on gutsy and experiencing font appearance issues?
<sacater> how can i be on gutsy
<sacater> its not even released yet
<sacater> sacater@trinity:~$ lspci -v|grep VGA
<sacater> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage Mobility P/M AGP 2x (rev 64) (prog-if 00 [VGA] )
<sacater> sacater@trinity:~$ 
<crimsun> did you check the DPI?
<crimsun> I still haven't gotten a succinct description of the issue.
<StevenK> sacater: Just because it isn't released doesn't mean you can't upgrade to it. Not that we're suggesting you do so.
* persia considers any distribution to be unready for use prior to at least Debian sync freeze, if not Upstream version freeze.
<sacater> StevenK: i did update-manager -d a day or 2 ago and nowt was there
<StevenK> I'm quite happy running unreleased distributions, such as Gutsy or Sid in chroots.
<sacater> crimsun: i want my computer to start, load everything up, but land me with a console rather than a graphical session chooser and login
<crimsun> sacater: right, you should have that squared away already.
<sacater> crimsun: ?
<crimsun> sacater: what you just described is done.  You've removed the symlink from /etc/rc2.d/ , no?
<sacater> StevenK: how do i get gutsy at this point in time. the development version
<sacater> crimsun: but all fonts and stuff went weird, and startfluxbox wouldnt work
<StevenK> sacater: I'd seriously suggest you don't run it this early in its development cycle.
<sacater> StevenK: fair enough, but where can i get it from
<Lhademmor> Hello people, is this the place to talk about MOTU/School?
<sacater> Lhademmor: there is a seperate channel for that i believe
<Lhademmor> sacater: Hm? Where is that?
<sacater> Lhademmor: #ubuntu-classroom
<micahcowan> No, I think this would be the right place to talk about motu school. #ubuntu-classroom would be where MOTU/School actually takes place.
<Lhademmor> sacater: Thank you :)
<Lhademmor> Okay then... Does MOTU/Schoool still take place? The wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School seems very inactive..
<Lhademmor> And I won't go about this mentoringthing until I've studied the school a little more closely
<micahcowan> AFAIK there haven't been recent sessions, but OTOH, a lot of the most important things have already been covered... perhaps they're looking for new subjects.
<micahcowan> Lhademmor, why? What has the one to do with the other?
<StevenK> sacater: You need to be familiar with the under-lying tools, such as apt-get or aptitude.
<Lhademmor> micahcowan: "It is not designed to teach you how to package. MOTU/School is the appropriate place for that." <-- So I guess that's where I start
<sacater> StevenK: i am familiar with them as in I use them on a regular basis
<Lhademmor> micahcowan: Are there logs available?
<Lhademmor> nvm, I found them
<StevenK> sacater: Then to upgrade to it, you edit your sources.list, replace feisty with gutsy, upgrade and pray.
<micahcowan> Good :)
<micahcowan> Lhademmor, it's not designed to teach you packaging, perhaps, but I believe it is designed to guide you in your first attempts and challenges with packaging (otherwise, why would it be useful?).
<sacater> StevenK: whooo! no thanks
<sacater> StevenK: would it just offer me a distro upgrade
<Lhademmor> micahcowan: Yep, I get it, and I'll try it out :)
<micahcowan> But yes, you should definitely go through the school sessions, and read the pertinent wiki and Debian docs that are referenced there, and then come back here for clarifications :)
<StevenK> sacater: No, it would run off and do it if you ran aptitiude upgrade or aptitude dist-upgrade. Update-manager is a little more "I'd suggest you upgrade."
<sacater> StevenK: i will wait for the herds :P
<pochu> sacater: tribe 1 is in ~2 weeks time :)
<StevenK> sacater: They're called Tribe this time around
<sacater> aha
<sacater> okie
<sacater> s
<StevenK> I should get Tribe 1 for my birthday.
<micahcowan> StevenK, is that to avoid confusion with Hurd? :)
<StevenK> micahcowan: No, actually. Every release of Ubuntu has had different names for the pre-release snapshots.
<micahcowan> Ah. Herd of Fawns, Tribe of Gibbons?
<micahcowan> What was Eft's?
<StevenK> Edgy's was Knot
<micahcowan> Ah, yes.
<sacater> i still think Hungry Hippo would be a great distro name
<StevenK> H was taken by Hoary Hedgehog
<sacater> aw yes
<sacater> darn it
<afflux> can someone check if this script is bashism free? http://paste.stgraber.org/971
<afflux> (I'm not familiar with bashisms)
<pochu> is it possible to create a symlink which should be packaged in the diff.gz?
<persia> afflux: Looks clean to me, but I'd use grep o[m] $, rather than double grep.
<pochu> dpkg-source complains: dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
<persia> pochu: man dh(underbar)links
<man-di> pochu: use dh_link or debian/*.links file
<pochu> ok, thanks :)
<Hobbsee> hi all
<persia> hi Hobbsee
<pochu> hey Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
<afflux> persia: thanks
<persia> afflux: If you install the dash package (likely already installed), you can always test locally.
<afflux> persia: I'll when I built the package
<afflux> +do
<pschulz01> I have an automake/autotools library package that I'd like to deb package.. it builds ok with ./setup.sh; ./configure; make.. I have done a 'dh_make' with the library option.. what next.
<pschulz01> 'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc' gives me errors.
<Kmos> pschulz01: http://paste.stgraber.org
<pschulz01> Will 'dpkg-buildpackage' call './autogen.sh' ?
<Kmos> pschulz01: how about? dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot -us -uc
<pschulz01> http://paste.stgraber.org/972
<pschulz01> Kmos: Hm.. that worked, but not exactly what I'm after :-)
<Kmos> it builds fine ?
<Kmos> you want to create now a .deb ?
<pschulz01> Kmos: build fine.. I think I just have to 'simplify' the 'configure' line in the rules file.
<Kmos> pschulz01 :)
<pschulz01> Kmos: Manual build is fine
<afflux> pschulz01: your paste looks like you forgot to mention a library
<pschulz01> Kmos: afflux - package now builds, but nothing in it.
<afflux> well, then your packaging is wrong...
<afflux> anyone knows how to tell pbuilder not to remove the build directory on errors?
<man-di> pschulz01: forgot to write and debian/*.install file?
<pschulz01> man-di: more than likely :-)
<pschulz01> man-di: I haven't done a lot yet.
<man-di> pschulz01: np, I just give some small hints to make you learn all you need yourself
<pschulz01> :-)
<pschulz01> Ahah! Installed in debian/tmp/usr/local/lib.. 
<ajmitch> night all
<Fujitsu> Night ajmitch.
<pgquiles> lintian says "W: libtomcrypt0-dev: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libtomcrypt-prof0". How do I include libtomcrypt_prof.* in libtomcrypt0-dev and get lintian not to complain?
<persia> pgquiles: It's generally advised to use multiple binary packages to achieve that, but you can force it with a lintian override, if you are really sure that they need to be in the same package.
<pgquiles> persia: not that they need to but I think it would be convenient
<geser> can libtomcrypt-prof0 be used independent of libtomcrypt0?
<pgquiles> geser: not without libtomcrypt0 but it could be without libtomcrypt0-dev which is the one lintian is complaining about
<pgquiles> I guess it'd be better to have a new package
<PriceChild> Hey persia, made some progress I think :)
<persia> PriceChild: Great.  Did you upload?  Can I look again?
<geser> pgquiles: you're shipping a lib in a -dev package?
<PriceChild> persia, yeah, 5204 I think... yeah http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5204
<pgquiles> geser: only the profiling lib
<geser> and name the -dev package libtomcrypt-dev unless you need to support builing against multiple API versions
<persia> PriceChild: I've already commented on that one :)
<PriceChild> persia, ah ok lol.... I'm looking forward to redoing everything :P Haven't seen comments yet :)
<PriceChild> persia, wow.... so you don't think I have to redo much.... :P Hmmm I wonder what I can do about the 64bit thing... I know someone who has a machine that I used to package beryl on, will poke him to ask if I can do that.
<persia> PriceChild: No, aside from licensing, and python, it eyeballs well for me.  Let me know if you have trouble getting access for the 64-bit build, and I'll prep a patch (my 64-bit patch for 2.3 doesn't apply :( )
<PriceChild> Ok cool... lets hope if I do get access to 64bit that I have half a clue what to do :P
<persia> PriceChild: For 2.3, it was just adjusting a couple "int"s to "unsigned long"s, when they were used for pointers.  I think a total of about 8 places in the code.
<PriceChild> Wait a minute 2.3 what...? :S
<PriceChild> gah the guy's gone on holiday now... I'm sure he would have just released a new version for me so we didn't have to patch.
<persia> PriceChild: I packaged 2.3 in March, but Tim didn't want me to release it because he was working on version 3.
<PriceChild> Aj ok
<marseillai> hi
<persia> PriceChild: Take a look at simple-patchsys.  It makes patching really easy, at least for simple patches.
<PriceChild> Hehe i've got to learn some time :)
* PriceChild read that there was cdbs made it _really_ easy to do patches so that's something :)
<marseillai> i'm trying to package kcontrol-autostart : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5214 and i've this error in pbuilder : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21675/ does anyone have an idea of the problem ?
<pgquiles> marseillai: as automake-1.9 was not found, you have no 'configure'. Is automake-1.9 listed as a build-dependency?
<marseillai> autotool-dev are in build-dep
<marseillai> is it enough?
<marseillai> pgquiles: ?
<pgquiles> marseillai: I was looking at the description for autotools-dev
<pgquiles> marseillai: I'd say it's not enough as autotools-dev has no install dependency
<PriceChild> persia, None of the modules will require a ${python:Depends} Dep will they?
* persia looks
<PriceChild> not modules
<PriceChild> libraries
<PriceChild> wait not that's a silly question...
<PriceChild> they all do don't they...
<persia> PriceChild: I think you need one for gizmod and libgizmod, but I don't think you need one for libh.  I'd recommend putting it in for both of them, and looking at the debs you get back to see if you think the dependencies are correct.
<PriceChild> ok /me looks harder again
<PriceChild> ah yeah silly me that makes sense tnow
<PriceChild> persia, bah broken after those changes. :P Will fix that now.
<persia> PriceChild: That's the fun of packaging.  When you fix it, you get to fix it again :)
<PriceChild> lol
<PriceChild> the first being a "fix"
<PriceChild> persia, hmm its python2.5 by default isn't it...?
<persia> PriceChild: Yes.  Does 3.1 not work with 2.5?
<PriceChild> for some reason the build just called 2.4 and failed :P
<PriceChild> It can't be the actual software as its always been perfect up until now.... must be my "fixes" in the debian/ I suppose... :s
<persia> PriceChild: I'm pretty sure you can force things with the correct entry in debian/pyversions or XS-Python-Version (depending on how you are complying with python policy).
<PriceChild> I haven't yet read any python policy.... :P
<persia> PriceChild: URL is in the comment.
<PriceChild> oh yeah i've read that
<PriceChild> sorry confused :)
* PriceChild reads another 4 times
<PriceChild> ah I seeit
<PriceChild> persia, argh it fails again...
<persia> PriceChild: pastebin the applicable part of the build, and I'll take a look.
<PriceChild> thanks :) http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21687/
<persia> Ummm... OK.  Could you paste a bit more please :)
<PriceChild> hehe
<PriceChild> well that's the only odd bit... I mean take a look at this bit i'm pming you
<tsmithe> anyone up for a revu?
<tsmithe> anyone?
<tsmithe> woo uscan
<tsmithe> crimsun: ping. what's the status of alsa-tools in gutsy? (re my alsa-firmware changes)
<PriceChild> Hi I need some help with my package at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5217 specifically python being annoying. output of pbuilder at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21694/
<pochu> PriceChild: have you tried to compile it from source?
<PriceChild> I did, and it worked before my "fixes" for debian policy... will check that again now though if you want?
<PriceChild> *python policy
<pochu> PriceChild: it fails because setup.py doesn't exist, but I don't know why it's trying to use it.
<pochu> python2.5: can't open file 'setup.py': [Errno 2]  No such file or directory
<PriceChild> yeah...
<persia> pochu: CDBS default python build as documented in python policy calls this.  Most every other python package has a setup.py (it's the python makefile).
<pochu> So either don't use CDBS, or tell him to just "make", right?
<pochu> s/him/it/
<welshbyte> or don't use python-distutils.mk in the rules file
* pochu learns something new everyday :)
<welshbyte> CDBS is the good crack ;)
<pgquiles> could any REVU admin please remove libtom* in incoming? I mistakenly sent the _amd64.changes instead of _source.changes
<sacater> hey, does anyone have a clue what this is
<sacater> Message from syslogd@trinity at Sun May 20 15:16:06 2007 ...
<sacater> trinity kernel: [ 6819.468000]  Dazed and confused, but trying to
<sacater> continue
<sacater> Message from syslogd@trinity at Sun May 20 15:16:06 2007 ...
<sacater> trinity kernel: [ 6819.468000]  Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason a1
<sacater> on CPU 0.
<sacater> Message from syslogd@trinity at Sun May 20 15:16:06 2007 ...
<sacater> [15:31]  kernel: [ 6819.468000]  You have some hardware problem, likely on
<sacater> the PCI bus.
<Treenaks> You have some hardware problem, likely on the PCI bus
<sacater> ok
<sacater> but are those messages genuine
<Treenaks> but I guess you knew that
<Treenaks> could be..
<sacater> i mean, what program says'Dazed and confused'
<Treenaks> the kernel :)
<sacater> really...
<persia> sacater: Usually.  The kernel is pretty good at knowing when it is confused.
<sacater> i thought i had been hacked or something weird :S
<Treenaks> that particular message was already in 2.2 kernels.. whoa
<sacater> so nothing to worry about..
<Treenaks> well
<man-di> sacater: if hardware problems are nothing to worry about for you...fine
<sacater> well, i mean i havnt been hacked, thats what i was worrying about
<sacater> i care about hardware of course
<Treenaks> sacater: this message is real kernel stuff
<persia> sacater: You can never know that you haven't been hacked; you can only sometimes know when you have.
<ucap> persia: got a second to look at the sendmail debdiff I'm working on? sent you a link in a dialogue
<persia> ucap: Sure.  I'll take a look now.
<persia> ucap: Dialog?  I don't see an update to the bug, email, or a message.
<ucap> http://84.16.236.81/debdiff.txt I haven't updated the bug yet, as I first wanted to make sure it was okay this time
<luisbg> public thanks to persia for all the audacity work =)
<persia> ucap: Thanks.  The changes themselves look good, but the changelog is a bit messy.  You only need one line about the maintainer change (either is good), the correct format to reference launchpad bugs is (LP: bugnumber), and you should try to shorten the first line to something less than 72 characters (including the (LP: 83673)
<persia> luisbg: The Debian maintainers deserve the credit.  I just want to abolish wxwindows2.4 :)
<ucap> persia: okay, will update it and get back to you (again). thanks for your patience.
<persia> ucap: Thank you for working on the patch.
<ucap> persia: debdiff updated - same link as before
<persia> ucap: Looks good.  Post it to the bug, and I'll process it.
<ucap> persia: finally :) I have just updated the bug report.
<welshbyte> how can i pass DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="nostrip debug noopt" to `sudo pbuilder build foo.dsc`?
* welshbyte spots --debbuildopts
<persia> welshbyte: for nostrip, try installing pkg-create-dbgsym in your pbuilder (not exactly the same, but allows the sme debugging)
<welshbyte> persia: i should really do it with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS to test a patch for this bug, but thanks for that piece of info :)
<welshbyte> ah, exporting it before running pbuilder seems to work... i assumed it wouldn't before
<marseillai_> during the build of kcontrol-autostart it requires automake1.6 but there is no automake1.6 in repo is there a way to solve this problem ?
<persia> marseillai: Try bumping to a newer automake (1.9 or 1.10) and see if it compiles.  If it doesn't, either patch the build system, or try older automakes, hoping to find one which works.
<marseillai> persia: allready done
<marseillai> i've try automake and automake1.9
<persia> marseillai: How about automake1.7, automake1.8, and automake1.10?  If none of these work, you need to patch the build system.
<marseillai> i'm trying with 1.7
<Lamego> any idea where I can check how debian menu entires are mapped to the applications menu ?
<persia> Lamego: see the menu-xdg package.  It creates heaps of .desktop files in /var/lib/menu-xdg/applications/menu-xdg/.
<Lamego> I am not referring to .desktop files, I am referring to /usr/share/menu entries
<Lamego> ok, I guess you mean that the .desktop files generated to menu-xdg, however I have none at /var/lib/menu-xdg/applications/menu-xdg/
<sacater> StevenK: when you say Gutsy is highly unstable, how unstable are we talking
<pochu> sacater: openoffice crashes on startup ;)
<sacater> pochu: know that first-hand?
<pochu> sure thing :)
<sacater> pochu: i trust you have filed bug reports ;P
<pochu> sacater: bug 111940
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111940 in hunspell "libhunspell-1.1-0 1.1.5-6: Incompatible ABI change" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111940
<pochu> sacater: firefox and TB were also crashing, but they're already fixed :)
<sacater> pochu: good :D
<pochu> however, more breakage is expected ;)
<persia> sacater: You can keep openoffice working, if you give up on firefox, thunderbird, and liferea :)
<sacater> heh
<pochu> persia: or if you disable the spellcheck ;)
<pochu> I've just edit a 2 pages word document :)
* persia doesn't know how to do that before OOo has loaded.
<pochu> persia: I don't know either :p
<pochu> persia: maybe it's because the document was in Spanish, and my system is entirely in English.
<pochu> Anyway, I'm off now. See you folks!
<sacater> pochu: bye
<pgquiles> is there any REVU admin here?
<wolfeon> doko: ping?
<wolfeon> doko: where do you see a PyObject_Del in my patch? :)
* wolfeon hands doko a pair of new glasses
<bluekuja> jdong: ping
<geser> wolfeon: he ask about replace PyObject_FREE with PyObject_Del
<doko> wolfeon: please use the glasses yourself to re-read the comment
<wolfeon> :P
<bluekuja> doko: do you have a minute for a package update review for main? (gnome-btdownload)
<bluekuja> its still 0.0.25
<bluekuja> and upstream got
<bluekuja> 0.0.28
<wolfeon> well I'll have to read the updated python manual, heh.
<wolfeon> guess I assumed from the effbot article it was the correct way
<doko> bluekuja: not today, it's a free day, I should be subscribed to the main-sponsors reports, so if there is a report ...
<bluekuja> doko: ok :)
<ThunderStruck> is there a way of finding out why a package is held in NEW?
<geser> the only reason why a package is in NEW is because it needs a review by the archive admins
<ThunderStruck> yes i understand but its been there for a week+ i was wondering if ther ewas an issue thats why it wasnt pushed
* welshbyte finishes updating his wiki homepage and decides he hasn't done quite enough ubuntu work
<geser> ThunderStruck: the archive admins do their archive work on 3 days a week
<wolfeon> doko: #define PyObject_DELPyObject_FREE in the 2.5...
<ThunderStruck> oh ok
<wolfeon> doko: however, let me read to see which one is the better to use for also the past releases.
<wolfeon> just to make sure I'm not blind. Ubuntu doesn't have anything in packages for python releases except 2.4 and 2.5, correct?
<geser> yes
<wolfeon> in 2.5, the correct method would be PyObject_FREE. Also 2.4, the correct method would be PyObject_FREE
<wolfeon> http://svn.python.org/projects/python/branches/release24-maint/Include/objimpl.h
<wolfeon> http://svn.python.org/projects/python/branches/release25-maint/Include/objimpl.h
<wolfeon> It seems, from the comment.. _Del was a thing from 2.2, there is a prototype in the comment.
<man-di> is http://packages.ubuntu.com/ down?
<beuno> hello, I'd like to sync a new package from Debian that has just been uploaded with bugs fixed present in Ubuntu, how would I request that?
<geser> beuno: has the Ubuntu package changes?
<beuno> no, it hasn't had any patches applied to it
<geser> than it should be sync automatically, we are still in auto-sync mode
<wolfeon> well it works in 2.4 and 2.5, all I really care about then, heh
<beuno> geser: great, thanks, how often does Ubuntu sync?
<geser> I don't know how the auto-sync works exactly
<geser> you may ask an archive admin tomorrow
<mumbly> hi : could you please re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring for me ?
<beuno> geser: thanks, last question, how can I be notified when it gets updated?
<geser> afaik there is no notification service
<wolfeon> doko_: well, PyObject_Del wraps PyObject_Free anyway, I'll change it just in case.. 
<wolfeon> "Unless you have specific memory management requirements, use
<wolfeon> PyObject_{New, NewVar, Del}."
<doko_> wolfeon: thanks
<welshbyte> apart from gutsy-changes@ which sends email for all the changes (afaik)
<wolfeon> doko_: I'll also update the names to match. I don't like using NEW and Del, so I'll update NEW to New
<wolfeon> they are aliases to the same thing.
<geser> I'm not sure if the auto-syncs appear on gutsy-changes
<persia> They used to show there (see the archives).
<geser> all?
<beuno> geser: that seems a bit odd, like in this case, I know a bug is being closed, but I have no way of monitoring it?
<welshbyte> geser: a package i have in debian appeared there... that's why i mentioned it
<lionel> yes, all auto-sync appear on gutsy-changes
<beuno> lionel: but there is no way to get notified on a specific package?
<lionel> no
<beuno> right, thanks lionel, geser
<wolfeon> second, almost done..
<wolfeon> doko_: updated
<pgquiles> is there any way to delete a dput'ted file in REVU?
<wolfeon> and tested heavily, heh.
<ThunderStruck> pgquiles, only the revu admins can do that
<pgquiles> ThunderStruck: :-( I sent the wrong file 8 hours ago and I'm blocked now, I can't delete that file or upload the good one
<ThunderStruck> pgquiles, i dont think any are here ATM but they will have to remove it
<wolfeon> umm
<wolfeon> umm
<PriceChild> http://sourceforge.net/projects/gizmod/ states the license of the "Project". Do you think this would also apply to the documentation at http://gizmod.wiki.sourceforge.net/ ?
<PriceChild> hmm nevermind...
<micahcowan> crimsun, around?
<micahcowan> Is the UUID=xxxx method for referring to a filesystem a generally-supported feature, or is it specific to Debian/Ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> is part of the new upstream libata
<micahcowan> Gotcha. Thanks.
<micahcowan> Mista Kitterman :)
<ajmitch> morning
<geser> hi ajmitch
<wolfeon> :)
<wolfeon> geser: hey, to create a feisty-proposed package...
<wolfeon> geser: do I just change the name from gutsy to feisty-proposed?
<geser> yes, and an other version
<wolfeon> oh, right..
<geser>  1.1.1-2.1ubuntu0.1
<wolfeon> 0.1? it is currently 1.1.1-2.1build1
<wolfeon> what is the logic behind 0.1?
<geser> that it's lower than the next version in gutsy
<wolfeon> ohhh
<wolfeon> geser: do I attach the patch to the tracker? 
<geser> yes
<wolfeon> doko_: okay, there you go ;)
<doko_> wolfeon: could you follow the StableReleaseUpdates procedure?
<ScottK> crimsun: I just saw on the scrollback you are moving to Washington DC.  I live in that area.  If you want housing advice, let me know...
<wolfeon> doko_: mm, no :)
<wolfeon> aww, I have to go through proposals just to get the package fixed? :/
<geser> yes
<geser> the fix must be tested before is it included in feisty-updates and made available to all users
<wolfeon> hmm, well okay :)
<doko_> wolfeon: I agree it's a bit complicated the first time ...
<wolfeon> doko_: just a bit complicated, yes. :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<welshbyte> is having a mentor a prerequisite for becoming a motu?
<wolfeon> where is this "Backport to fix releases" to mark the bug for backporting?
<ScottK> wolfeon: Backport is something different than stable update.
<ScottK> welshbyte: No.
<wolfeon> ScottK: okay :)
<welshbyte> ok
<Lamego> wolfeon, does your bug fix met the SRU criteria ?
<wolfeon> Lamego: I'm working on it, one minute.
<wolfeon> the bug fix does, yes, but I'm adding more to the description
<Lamego> ok :)
<wolfeon> Lamego: sorry, testing too. I don't want to make a mistake.
<Lamego> what is the package ?
<wolfeon> python-fam
<wolfeon> doko_: did you update the development branch with the patch?
<doko_> wolfeon: no, so to complete your work, it would be nice if you inform upstream about the fix
<wolfeon> doko_: trying..
<wolfeon> upstream might be dead :)
<wolfeon> or do you mean debian?
<wolfeon> doko_: python-fam requires fam, but it installs even if gamin is installed...
<wolfeon> doko_: would it be okay to add a requirement for fam?
<wolfeon> doko_: I don't know why or how it works, but python-fam segfaults python if fam and family is not installed.
<wolfeon> *are not
<wolfeon> gamin supposedly provides a /usr/lib/libfam.so.0.0.0 for apps which depend on fam. It isn't working though. heh.
<Nafallo> hi gang
<pochu> Nafallo: where have you been all this time? :)
<Nafallo> my Internet at home are screwed :-/
<Nafallo> I'm at a livecd at my parents atm
<wolfeon> hehe
<Nafallo> that reminds me... I should download tcpdump to see why I can't get ARP to my default route :-P
<pochu> :)
<Nafallo> probably busted modem though :-P
<Nafallo> hmm. I've probably sent 30k pings to default route. will let it continue so I can show it to the fieldtech :-)
<Simon80> man-di: I also see that packages.ubuntu.com is down, as of now
<Nafallo> launchpad is up ;-)
<crimsun> ScottK: ok, thanks.  I'll ask sometime later via email.
<ajmitch> Nafallo: perhaps because packages.ubuntu.com is run by a 3rd party, and not canonical?
<Nafallo> I was more like... what do we need p.u.c for? :-)
<pochu> doesn't aptitude changelog check p.u.c?
<ajmitch> I doubt i
<Nafallo> changes.ubuntu.com AFAIK
<pochu> Firefox can't find the server at changes.ubuntu.com.
<welshbyte> s/changes/changelogs/
<pochu> changelogs.u.c works better ;)
<Simon80> where is prevu documented?
<welshbyte> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Simon80> not revu, prevu
<welshbyte> oh... what's prevu? :)
<Simon80> jdong, I'm looking at you here :)
<pochu> !prevu
<ubotu> prevu is an automated, personal backporting utility. Check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Prevu for more details
<Simon80> thanks
<welshbyte> heh
<pochu> hehe, didn't know it was going to work :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<Simon80> if anyone is interested in my radical idea, I envision a simple system whereby you can maintain a non-redistributable package locally as if it were a regular, but it would be deployed in a repo format that only contains a diff, and no orig tarball
<Simon80> a regular package*
<Simon80> so the app to be written would be required to handle viewing repos, grabbing diffs and upstream binaries, and then building the package locally and installing it
<welshbyte> Simon80: it's sort of already done, there are packages just containing scripts to download non-distributable software and run the installer
<Simon80> yeah, but it's all done in the postinst and prerm scripts, which seems wrong to me
<Simon80> it can be done in a way that leverages dpkg to manage the installation, with the script in debian/rules instead, but it isn't
<welshbyte> Simon80: do you think it would encourage more people to make their software non-redistributable though?
<Simon80> no, I don't
<Simon80> there are linux distros other than debian
<Simon80> gentoo already does exactly what I'm saying, I'm basically inspired by that
<welshbyte> right, i see
<Simon80> then again, perhaps it would, given the popularity of ubuntu
<welshbyte> :)
<Simon80> I don't think it's right to make that decision though, it's up to the users whether they want to boycott these things or not, Ubuntu shouldn't force them
<Simon80> I mean, unless it wants to be like Fedora
<Simon80> it's between compromising on this stuff, or not being a completely viable replacement for windows
<jrib> vifm's postinst script always returns error exit status 1.  Here's the script: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21749/ .  Adding "exit 0" as the last line seems to fix things.  But, 1) I'm not so sure this is the right way to generate help tags after reading http://yacoob.dnsalias.net/sakwa/vim-policy.txt .  What is the right way? 2) since this program isn't a vim add-on but just a file manager that emulates vim, should it be adding help files to vim?
<Simon80> doesn't seem like a logical idea, no
<Simon80> but I'm just some guy
<jrib> thanks some guy
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> that's just my opinion, I mean
<crimsun> jrib: have you checked whether vim-tiny actually is capable of handling that postinst?
<crimsun> it seems like that postinst needs to check a bit more than just the existence of /usr/bin/vim
<jrib> crimsun: that's probably true as well.  Making vim point to vim.tiny makes the script fail as well, though it succeeds if I add "exit 0" as the last line.  Is adding "exit 0" as the last line wrong?  I don't really understand why it exits with 1 whether it's vim.tiny or vim.full that's getting called
<crimsun> e.g., `update-alternatives --list vim' or `readlink /etc/alternatives/vim'
<crimsun> well, does the postinst succeed with vim and vim-full?
<jrib> no, it fails
<jrib> but, I run: sudo /usr/bin/vim -ec ":helptags /etc/vim/doc/ | :quit"    myself and get no output
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<jrib> crimsun: oh, I do get lots of error output with vim.tiny if I run the command directly
<crimsun> hi, Luke
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
<jrib> oops false alarm, the errors were because of my vimrc...
<crimsun> hi, MissHidingFromLaunchpad
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee. Seems like this early morning thing for you is becoming a habbit.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, maybe.  but i do have to go to work tonight, so....
<TheMuso> crimsun: heh
<Hobbsee> crimsun: *grin*
<ajmitch> TheMuso: it's not 3am though
<crimsun> jrib: so what's the verdict?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: heh
<Hobbsee> it seems i shouldnt have replied to that thread at all, then
* ajmitch wonders which thread this is
<Hobbsee> launchpad users ml
<ajmitch> worrying
<jrib> crimsun: the postinst script fails (returns exit status 1) with vim.full as well as vim.tiny .  But the '/usr/bin/vim -esc blah blah' command succeeds if I run it directly using both vim.tiny and vim.full
* Hobbsee goes back to being a green alien.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you do that so well
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed.
<jrib> crimsun: by "succeed" I meant fails but has no output apparently...
<crimsun> what does `echo $?' give you?
<jrib> 1
<crimsun> so it didn't succeed at all
<jrib> right, except the tags are generated
<jrib> anyway, I think the solution is to use "helpztags" command like vim-latexsuite does or to just get rid of these help files since the program is not actually related to vi, it just emulates the keys
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-12
<emgent> crimsun: here? :)
<no0tic> emgent, /whois
<emgent> ScottK: have you time for some upload?
<emgent> ok np, i will wait u-u-s and u-m-s
<emgent> i go to sleep night all
<ScottK> emgent: What's up?
<no0tic> ScottK, he was seeking sponsors :)
<ScottK> no0tic: I guessed.
<RoAkSoAx> o/ tbielawa
<tbielawa> RoAkSoAx: hello
<RoAkSoAx> how you doing
<tbielawa> quite well. i slept allllllllllllll day
<tbielawa> until about 10 pm
<tbielawa> You?
<RoAkSoAx> hahaha me well i slept till noon
<RoAkSoAx> then all day being eating and drinking beer till 9pm
<tbielawa> sounds like a good sunday
<RoAkSoAx> yeah mother's day
<tbielawa> my mission, is to implement a patch system into this package
<RoAkSoAx> ?
<tbielawa> i've heard different things about different systems
<tbielawa> LaserJock suggested dpatch
<tbielawa> some people use quilt
<RoAkSoAx> which package are you working on?
<tbielawa> bibus. it's a bibliography database program that integrates with open office well
<RoAkSoAx> tbielawa, and you packaging it from scratch?
<tbielawa> RoAkSoAx: I got lucky, upstream did most of the debianization. i had to clean it up a bit and fix some stuff like the FSF address
<RoAkSoAx> wel you have 3 ways to patch a system, CDBS, quilt and dpatch
<RoAkSoAx> i've used quilt and CDBS once.. but never dpatch
<tbielawa> I've seen mixed feelings about introducing CDBS into a package.
<RAOF> You really don't want to do that just to introduce a patch system!
<tbielawa> not at all!
<tbielawa> I think the debian people especially take a tistaste to cdbs
<tbielawa> *distaste
<RAOF> Some do, certianly.
<RAOF> And now that debhelper 7 is so fantastically awesome, I don't think I'll be using cdbs again.
<RAOF> </hyperbole>
<tbielawa> "fantastically awesome"
<tbielawa> I <3 that aspell didn't have a problem with 'fantastically'
<RAOF> Anyway, hooking up a debhelper package with dpatch is pretty easy.
<tbielawa> what i saw int he man page made me think I'm supposed to create a patch with a different structure. I'm not sure yet. I haven't gone about and made any efforts at putting in dpatch
<RAOF> A dpatch is fundamentally just an ordinary patch with a dpatch-run shebang line on the top.
<tbielawa> oh snap!
<RoAkSoAx> RAOF, any good documentation to read about it?
<RAOF> RoAkSoAx: Um... not that I can remember.
<RAOF> Basically dpatch-edit-patch is your friend.
<RoAkSoAx> guess i'll be reading the debian documentation then...
<tbielawa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#head-f7dc7195e4b5c19179ca622d8a37e2143c9248d5
<RoAkSoAx> tbielawa, i've been trhough that already.. i really need to read all the packaging guide again since im not that much familiarized with debian/ubuntu packaging
 * tbielawa nods
 * RoAkSoAx is just starting with linux development since in PerÃº is all MS stuff...
<RAOF> RoAkSoAx: As far as incorporating that into a package, "include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make" will give you patch: and unpatch: targets for your debian/rules.
<RoAkSoAx> ok cool thanks RAOF =)
<RoAkSoAx> RAOF, and in Build-depends i have to add dpatch right?
<RAOF> Yup.
<RoAkSoAx> kk thank =)
<tbielawa> so much to learn
<RoAkSoAx> tbielawa, yeah.. do they teach you linux and/or debian development in WVU?
<tbielawa> RoAkSoAx: sorta
<tbielawa> RoAkSoAx: all our systems run linux so our professors teach based in unix environments.
<tbielawa> RoAkSoAx: as a student worker for the CS department I use packaging each day
<RoAkSoAx> tbielawa, lucky you, i have to struggle with MS ... here is mostly MS development and that kind of stuff
 * tbielawa dies a little inside
<RoAkSoAx> tbielawa, yeah here is all MS stuff... just the ones who love Linux are the ones who likes to get our hands dirty :D
<RoAkSoAx> well i'm going to sleep... bye guys thanks =)
<pwnguin> so... eclipse cdt sucks
<pwnguin> and i have a good idea why
<pwnguin> version: eclipse-cdt (3.1.2-1) last upload:  Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:41:02 +0000
<pwnguin> 4.0 was released like 10 days later =(
<pwnguin> does anyone know of a page similar to p.d.o for fedora? im curious what versions they're shipping
<\sh> pwnguin: rpmfind?
<pwnguin> isn't that a getdeb?
<\sh> pwnguin: actually it's a searchengine... for all rpm based distros...but with selecting fedora only and the release of fedora you should get a result you need...or just check the archives of fedora...
<\sh> (smart is also a possibility, add the yum repos of fedora to smart and smart search ;))
<emgent> morning
<\sh> hey emgent
<emgent> \sh: o/
<pwnguin> well, rpmfind seems to be decent enough
<james_w> pwnguin: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/
<emgent> someone havwe time for sponsor this: http://tinyurl.com/4t9fuh ?
<emgent> s/havwe/have/
<pwnguin> thats a list of bugs?
<\sh> emgent: I'm finishing my merge in a few and deal with it
<\sh> at least the universe stuff
<emgent> :)
<pwnguin> man. does fedora have some sort of magic? i cant find a single bug report about eclipse cdt being slow for them =)
<pwnguin> =(
<Treenaks> pwnguin: every time you try to file one, you get an answer: Bug closed: "No it's not" :P
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> i asked for everything, even closed and NOTABUG
<pwnguin> as far as I can tell, they have one developer, who does everything
<pwnguin> he files bugs, and closes them
<pwnguin> hopefully he fixes them
<pwnguin> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=235423
<ubottu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 235423 in eclipse-cdt "Jeff rocks" [Medium,Closed: notabug]
<pwnguin> neat
<pwnguin> really, I have to imagine nobody bothers filing bugs because they don't expect it to work
<proppy> oy
<james_w> emgent: could you check briquolo again please, I think it should be a sync.
<emgent> james_w: just a moment
<emgent> james_w: true.
<james_w> emgent: thanks.
<emgent> james_w: np, thanks to you
<slytherin> Can a person who is not MOTU comment on any package on revu?
<RAOF> slytherin: I believe the answer is "yes".
<slytherin> RAOF: Ok. Thanks.
<\sh> oh damnit...gnomoradio is so broken by default
<proppy> slytherin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/ContributorREVU?highlight=(REVU)
<sebner> \sh: huhu, thx for the nice comment but no stress for the MOTUship ;)
<slytherin> \sh: in what sense it is broken for you?
<\sh> slytherin: in the packaging sense
<\sh> usr/bin/share/applications/  in gnomoradio.install and that's why the maintainer is shipping another .desktop file which he installs manually
<slytherin> \sh: Oh. I thought in working sense.
<\sh> slytherin: I don't care about working right now...that comes later ;)
<proppy> I got E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed. http://pastebin.com/m77a27e67
<proppy> does this mean that these dependencies are not available in intrepid
<proppy> http://pastebin.com/m3e38ef19 ?
<slytherin> proppy: May be your chroot is broken. When did you last upgrade it?
<proppy> like 2 days ago,
<proppy> maybe 3
<proppy> I wonder if the universe sources, is added when you pbuilder --build
<slytherin> proppy: Depends on your pbuilderrc. Check COMPONENTS, by default it is only main. When you change it you will have to do pbuilder update --override-config
<proppy> W: /home/proppy/.pbuilderrc does not exist
<proppy> :)
<slytherin> proppy: /etc/pbuilderrc
<proppy> you're right
<proppy> root@ippiki:/# cat /etc/apt/sources.list
<proppy> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid main
<proppy> in the chroot
<slytherin> proppy: On a closer look, looks like you mighte be correct about dependencies. libdbi-perl (line 152 in your first pastebin) and others will perhaps need rebuild against latest perl (5.10)
<\sh> hmm..if a .desktop file and an icon is shipped, shouldn't we call somehow dh_desktop/dh_icons?
<proppy> slytherin: running pbuilder --update as you suggested
<slytherin> \sh: yes we should
<\sh> emgent: please fix esperanza
<gnomefreak> setting up normal chroot for intrepid it only give syou one repo i saw that the other day :(
<slytherin> gnomefreak: it is not specific to intrepid, it has been like that always
<gnomefreak> slytherin: ah i set up hardy and intrepid and intrepid was only one
<slytherin> gnomefreak: were you using two different pbuilderrc files?
<proppy> slytherin: thanks for reviewing the pbuilder.log
<gnomefreak> slytherin: no pbuilder at all just dchroot (yes i know its outdated but its easier for me than shroot :)
<gnomefreak> i have yet had any luck with pbuilder and mozilla and since most of my packaging is mozilla no need for pbuilder
<proppy> slytherin: better only 3 unmet-dep left http://pastebin.com/m3dc8fbee
<slytherin> gnomefreak: Ok. Then we are talking about two different things here. :-)
<gnomefreak> same result 2 ways of getting it
<proppy> should I fill bug for each of them ?
<slytherin> proppy: same result. file a bug fir first two with subject 'needs rebuild against latest perl'
<proppy> slytherin: and this one need a looser gcc version rules ? libffi4: Depends: gcc-4.2-base (= 4.2.3-2ubuntu7) but 4.2.3-4ubuntu1 is installed.
<slytherin> proppy: I am not sure about last one libffi4, perhaps it needs a sync/merge.
<proppy> slytherin: let me check on packages.ubuntu.com / merges.ubuntu.com
<proppy> packages.ubuntu.com seems very slow today btw
<emgent> \sh: If i remember well, is not needed if .desktop files do not provide any MIME informations
<gnomefreak> have you seen this yet? dpkg: syntax error: unknown group `postdrop' in statoverride file
<gnomefreak> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2
<gnomefreak> when doing updates or installing anything
<\sh> emgent: ah yes...I remember
<emgent> \sh: i dont add dh_icons/dh_desktop for esperanza, avida, but if you like i can fix. anyway i remember that it`snt necessary
<emgent> :)
<\sh> emgent: na it's ok...
<emgent> ok thanks \sh :)
<\sh> emgent: I didn't check for mimetype :)
<proppy> bug #229494
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229494 in libdbi-perl "libdbi-perl needs rebuild against latest perl" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229494
<proppy> bug #229496
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229496 in libdbd-mysql-perl "libdbd-mysql-perl needs rebuild against latest perl" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229496
<\sh> emgent: how did you compile esperanza?
<emgent> pbuilder in chroot
<emgent> why?
<\sh> emgent: libxmmsclient++-dev(inst 0.2DrJekyll-4ubuntu4 ! >= wanted 0.2DrK)
<\sh> that's why
<emgent> just a moment
<proppy> let's check libff4 depends in sid
<\sh> emgent: I fetched sids version of esparanza and applied your debdiff
<proppy> slytherin: should I fill 'libff4 please rebuild against gcc 4.2.3-4ubuntu1' ?
<proppy> seems that libffi5 is in sid
<slytherin> proppy: no wait
<proppy> (packages.debian.org is slow as hell too)
<emgent> \sh: i have server offline, anyway i will see it quickly, thanks :)
<\sh> emgent: if you ask stevenk to merge xmms2 you can get rid of that
<emgent> \sh: i have server offline, anyway i will see it quickly, thanks :)
<slytherin> proppy: libffi4 problem should be fixed by pbuilder update I believe
<proppy> slytherin: sudo pbuilder --update --override-config --distribution intrepid ?
<proppy> let me try to run it again
<emgent> \sh: http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/libxmmsclient++-dev
<slytherin> proppy: Are4 you using hardy?
<proppy> slytherin: yep
<proppy> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<proppy> by pbuilder-update
<proppy> but I've got a intrepid pbuilder
<slytherin> proppy: What I do is keep two pbuilderrc files which refer to different releases and different base.tgz
<proppy> slytherin: ha I thought pbuilder would handle different base.tgz if given different --distribution option
<proppy> slytherin: same errors after pbuilder-update
<\sh> emgent: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xmms2 :)
<slytherin> proppy: no it doesn't
<\sh> emgent: the version does not match :)
<slytherin> proppy: I think it is better you start from scratch. Create ~/.pbuilderrc for intrepid as it gets read if present. And create new chroot
<\sh> StevenK: are you working on xmms2 merge? :)
<proppy> slytherin: how do I wipe the previous one ?
<emgent> \sh: looking :)
<\sh> emgent: we have the drjekyll...but we need the new DrKosmos ;)
<slytherin> proppy: just delete the base.tgz :-D
<\sh> emgent: which is on the mom list for stevenk to do :)
<proppy> proppy@ippiki:~/Desktop$ sudo pbuilder --create
<proppy> Distribution is intrepid.
<proppy> slytherin: thanks :)
<emgent> \sh: yes i saw now, but i dont remember how package was builted in my system.. it`s possible wrong debdiff attached. anyway now i think that is good wait xmms2 merge
<emgent> i will comment my merge bug
<emgent> thanks for your work \sh
<\sh> emgent: you can also try the xmms2 merge and ping stevenk
<emgent> \sh: i will do.
<emgent> thanks
<\sh> emgent: leave the bug as it is...the merge is correct...it just can't be build :)
<emgent> sure i saw :\
 * emgent looking xmms2
<proppy> slytherin: same error with a fresh intrepid pbuilder http://pastebin.com/m5d57a935
<slytherin> proppy: you will have to consult someone else for libffi4.
<proppy> slytherin: could I patch libffi4 dependencies ?
<proppy> s/=/>=/
<proppy> slytherin: ok, thanks for the help anyway :)
<proppy> ah liffi4 source package is gcc !
<pochu> proppy: what package depends on libffi4?
<proppy> updated Bug #227323
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227323 in poker-network "[wishlist]Please merge poker-network-1.4.0-1 (intrepid) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227323
<proppy> pochu: not sure let me check
<slytherin> pochu: he is trying to build poker-network and facing dependency problem - http://pastebin.com/m77a27e67
<proppy>  Â  libffi4: Depends: gcc-4.2-base (= 4.2.3-2ubuntu7) but 4.2.3-4ubuntu1 is installed.
<proppy> Not sure of which package asked for libffi4
<proppy> should I run apt-rdepends to figure out ?
<proppy> updated logs
<proppy> http://pastebin.com/m299e66
<\sh> is it just me, or is LPL really slow?
<emgent> \sh: for me too LP is slow
<pochu> proppy: that's likely because one of your packages depends on libffi4, and I wonder if that dependency is buggy
<pochu> proppy: see this thread: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-May/025361.html
<proppy> pochu: should be python-gtk2 then
<proppy>   Reverse Depends: python-poker2d (1.2.0-1ubuntu1)
<emgent> \sh: launchpad people confirm it.
<emgent> (12:50) ( gmb) emgent: We are experiencing some issues with bazaar.launchpad.net atm.
<emgent> (12:51) ( gmb) Which might be slowing things down generally.
<proppy> pochu: seems it's not directly python-poker2d that depends on it
<proppy> proppy@ippiki:~/Desktop/poker-network-1.4.0/debian$ cat control | grep ffi
<proppy> is empty
<pochu> proppy: yeah, but poker-network may (build-)depend on some package which depends on libffi4
<proppy> pochu: yep like python-gtk2
<proppy> pochu: do you know how I could help fixing this issue ?
<proppy> maybe trying to reproduce the pb with python-gobject is a good first step
<proppy> ScottK: ping
<pochu> I'm working on it
<pochu> the fixed pygobject needed to fix this FTBFS, but I have a fix
<pochu> I'm creating a chroot to verify it though
<proppy> pochu: ok, was running pbuilder http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/pygobject/pygobject_2.14.1-2ubuntu2.dsc :)
<pochu> does anybody know if it's possible to use a chroot to build package as you would do with pbuilder (specifying a .dsc file) ?
<proppy> pochu: dget the dsc
<proppy> pochu: dpkg-source -x .dsc
<proppy> pochu: and then run debuild -us -uc ?
<pochu> proppy: -3 has the fix, and -4ubuntu1 FTBFS
<pochu> you're likely looking at the hardy one...
<geser> don't forget to install the build-depends manually inside the chroot
<geser> pochu: pbuilder is nothing more than a scripted chroot
<proppy> geser: with a very sloowwww unpack step :)
<geser> proppy: pbuilder on tmpfs :)
<proppy> geser: should try that !
<\sh> proppy: depends...pbuidler is slow...sbuild+schroot+lvm snapshots is not ;)
<pochu> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pygobject/2.14.1-4ubuntu1
<proppy> pochu: I got the dsc from http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/python-gobject
<pochu> \sh: any howto for that? :)
<proppy> \sh: I remember reading about that in a wiki page, are you using it ?
<penper> hi! Is there a way to spcify the character encoding for the Description text in a deb control file?
<penper> (or maybe different entries for different languages)
<\sh> emgent: please fix bug #229097
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229097 in ikvm "Please merge ikvm 0.34.0.4-3 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229097
<\sh> pochu: mk-sbuild-lv ;) and local intrepid mirror + a lot of space ;)
<emgent> looking
<\sh> emgent: I attached a build log
<geser> penper: isn't the whole control file UTF-8 encoded?
<penper> geser: well, my Swedish letters look messed up when gdebi displays it
<pochu> \sh: thanks
<pochu> heh, looks like all I need is sbuild :)
<pochu> as I've just created an intrepid chroot
<proppy> pochu: pygobject_2.14.1-2ubuntu2.dsc builded fine, but I guess it's an outdated dsc
<pochu> but good to know about that script
<\sh> pochu: if you want I can write a simple how to .)
<pochu> proppy: it is
<\sh> pochu: you need a lvm partition with a good of 100G space free for intrepid stuff
<pochu> lol
<\sh> well, I'll write a simple howto and scare people away ,-)
<pochu> well, I have about 450G or so free here :-)
<pochu> \sh: good, thank you :) let me know when it's written ;)
<\sh> pochu: Starting with it
* nixternal changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: ï»¿https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open, go wild! https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ | REVU Day - Wed. May 14 - All Day!
<TheMuso> nixternal: Wah. Blank line?
<nixternal> blank line?
<persia> Hurrah!  REVU Day!
<nixternal> :)
<Hobbsee> oh noes1
<nixternal> they're back....
<TheMuso> nixternal: Don't worry about me, my client not rendering properly for some reason.
<nixternal> I was planning on getting this out over the weekend, but I was afk big time
<persia> nixternal: Still 10:00 UTC (-1 days) - 11:00 UTC (+1 days)?
<Hobbsee> oh good.  today is not revu day.
<nixternal> that sounds about right....if it is wednesday where you are at, then it is a REVU day :)
 * Hobbsee will remember to be doing assignments on wednesday then.
 * \sh shouldn't write something so long on the blog...I'll push it into a book
 * \sh needs also a new machine for opensolaris
<\sh> emgent: all your merges uploaded ...only the ones needing more love are left
<emgent> \sh: thanks when you have time see my reply on ikvm
<emgent> :)
<\sh> emgent: we should wait until it builds again :)
<\sh> emgent: if it's only a maintainer change, we should sync, if we still need the extra dh_* call, we should merge...
<\sh> emgent: btw..you can comment on the bug of debian, that it doesn't build on amd64, too :)
<\sh> emgent: thx for your work :)
<\sh> hmm....Tom Waits "Waltzing Matilda" and a good whisky a good start into the afternoon ;)
<\sh> and this evening..I'll have to cook some asparagus
<ScottK> proppy: Pong
<\sh> hey ScottK
<ScottK> Heya \sh
 * \sh wonders where yokozar is hiding we need new wine crack
<sebner> \sh: rofl. what we need is nexuiz 2.4.2 ;)
<\sh> sebner: oh no...da nexuiz junky is back ,-)
<sebner> xD
<slytherin> when are the syncs requested (and ack'ed) usually processed? Is there a day for this similar to revu day?
<james_w> slytherin: whenever the archive admins do it
<james_w> they tend do be done in batches a couple of times a week it seems.
<slytherin> ok
<\sh> slytherin: depending on the guy who is doing syncs...pitti does syncs mostly 2 times a week
<slytherin> \sh: does he do sync for packages in universe also?
<\sh> slytherin: yes
<sebner> geser: something against it if I file all the ocaml-* sync bugs?
<TheMuso> /c/c
<slytherin> Hi all, I am trying to merge jigdo. Last debian changelog entry says that a fix for FTBFS with gcc-4.3 was added. But I don't see a seperate patch for it. Instead it seems like the source has been patched directly. Is this acceptable?
<\sh> slytherin: if there is no patch system applied, yes..diff.gz source changes are welcome
<jdong> slytherin: the practice isn't encouraged but is acceptable
<\sh> jdong: hmm?
<slytherin> \sh: there was a patch system in place in Ubuntu (not in Debian). The patch in ubuntu is unnecessary in Debian, it changes the set of default mirrors.
<\sh> slytherin: patch system == dpatch, quilt, simple-patchsys?  who made the diff.gz patch then?
<\sh> (dbs as well)
<slytherin> \sh: I know what you meant by patch system. Let me explain problem properly. The last ubuntu version has a patch, using dpatch, to change default mirrors. The latest change in Debian adds an FTBFS fix but instead of using a patch system they directly patched source files. Thus the changes they did are not available in a a separate patch (only in diff.gz).
<broonie> slytherin: How is this any different to syncing a Debian package in teh normal course of affairs?
<slytherin> broonie: not much different. I just wanted to know if this is acceptible as I thought directly patching the source was not good practice.
<broonie> It's entirely normal in Debian.
<broonie> Patch systems are a (relatively) recent innovation and many packages don't use them at all.
<broonie> Putting the patch into a patch system would introduce an additional diff into Ubuntu with no real content.
<slytherin> broonie: hmm, so I will leave it as it is
<emgent> re
<Laney> Is there a python-launchpad-bugs API reference anywhere?
<james_w> Laney: asking on #ubuntu-bugs may get your question noticed by the people best placed to know
<Laney> james_w: Oh, is it maintained by people over there? Thanks
<ScottK> Laney: I'm pretty sure the answer is "use the source".
<proppy> ScottK: re-ping
<ScottK> proppy: re-pong
<proppy> ScottK: :0
<proppy> I added some comment to bug #227323
<proppy> that might be related to the recent libffi4 pb you were experiencing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227323 in poker-network "[wishlist]Please merge poker-network-1.4.0-1 (intrepid) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227323
<proppy> seems that one of poker-network dependencies (maybe python-gtk2) is subject to the libff4 dependencies pb
<proppy> libffi4: Depends: gcc-4.2-base (= 4.2.3-2ubuntu7) but 4.2.3-4ubuntu1 is installed.
<proppy> ScottK: does it looks related to you ?
<ScottK> We need to wait for python-gobject (IIRC) to get fixed.
<proppy> pochu: is working on it IIRC
<proppy> just wanted confirmation, thanks :)
<ScottK> No rush on the merge.  Just wait for it.
<proppy> ScottK: I filled some bug for the perl dependencies
<proppy> bug #229494
<proppy> bug #229496
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229494 in libdbi-perl "libdbi-perl needs rebuild against latest perl" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229494
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229496 in libdbd-mysql-perl "libdbd-mysql-perl needs rebuild against latest perl" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229496
<proppy> how can I help, to get them rebuilded ?
<Jian_Luo> good day, everyone!
<jdong> stupid question of the day that I don't dare answer: Do circular symlinks really cause bad things to happen?
<Hobbsee> yes, crack lover.
<Hobbsee> they certainly won't get you what you want
<laga> and if he wants recursion?
<Hobbsee> laga: if it's a circular symlink, what do you propose that the stopping case will be?
<laga> i never claimed he wants a stopping case.
 * Hobbsee does, in fact, have a circularly symlinked directory
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% ls -lh a
<StevenK> lrwxrwxrwx 1 steven users 1 2008-05-13 00:41 a -> b
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% ls -lh b
<StevenK> lrwxrwxrwx 1 steven users 1 2008-05-13 00:41 b -> a
<bddebian> Heya gang
<StevenK> Leet. You can do it.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: oh, sure.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you can also do ln -s ../. .
<StevenK> Hah, pointless
<Hobbsee> not necessarily.
<emgent> StevenK: are you working on xmms2 merge ?
<StevenK> emgent: Nope
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i use it in the case of irssi's autorun dir, which symlinks to the dir above, scripts.
<slytherin> Is it necessary to add [wishlist] to the short description of every merge bug?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: no
<emgent> heya Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> heya!
<ScottK> slytherin: It's not even a good idea.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: ScottK: Looks like this person is very much interested in doing it - https://edge.launchpad.net/~nglnx Till now he has edited 2 of my merge bug to just add '[wishlist]'
<Hobbsee> slytherin: #$R#@%$R#@%#^
<Laney> slytherin: He just did it to one of mine too
<Hobbsee> slytherin: i'm sure i need to find a better response.  then again, heno isn't here.
<StevenK> Argh. Bad.
<ScottK> slytherin and Laney: Whine to bdmurray.  It's one of his that's doing it.
<laga> 5-a-day? ;)
<slytherin> Hobbsee: I am not quite sure I understand your response. Can you put it in words. :-P
<Hobbsee> slytherin: sure, but not on a publically logged channel.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: yell at heno, and encourage him to actually find a solution, rather than "we don't like the bugtracker being used for workflow bugs, therefore we refuse to have any documentation about them.  How about you set all bugs to triaged, so that the bugsquad will leave them alone?"
<ScottK> laga: Maybe.  It's the kind of thing such programs promote.  Volume over substance.
 * Hobbsee even wrote the bloody documentation!
<Hobbsee> and heno reverted it, citing non-existant, or private discussions being held about them.
 * geser wonders why the workflow bugs cause problems right now. They exist since I started to contribute to Ubuntu and have caused much problems till now.
<slytherin> Can we put a notice somewhere "Don't touch bugs that say merge or sync in bug description" ?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: i did that.  heno, in his infinite wisdom, reverted it.
<ScottK> slytherin: I discussed this with bdmurray in the last week or two and he agreed to it I thought.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: do you want to raise that with the email thread, then?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage?action=diff
<ScottK> Hobbsee: What list?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ubuntu-bugs - where you first blasted them
<Hobbsee> er, the bugsquad list
<ScottK> Did I.  I'm not actually subscribed to that list.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, my bad.  wolfger wrote to the list about your response to his bug.
<Hobbsee> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugsquad
<ScottK> I'll go try on IRC.
<stgraber> hey, What's the current correct way of doing version update for universe packages ? (debdiff/interdiff/revu/... ?)
<slytherin> stratus: you mean upstream version update? Just attach diff.gz
<Hobbsee> ScottK: if you do it via ML, it leaves a paper trail.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: +1
<Hobbsee> ScottK: which, assuming they *do* discuss it at UDS, rather than just using it to sidestep the entire issue, they have concrete, hard evidence.
<stgraber> slytherin: ok, so I open a bug, attach .diff.gz and subscribe the sponsor group ?
<slytherin> stgraber: yes
<stgraber> ok, thanks
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'll just go with the call people who do such things to my bugs idiots until they learn to leave them alone approach.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: there are an awful lot of triagers.  it may be less effort to go the other way.
<ScottK> Yes, but more fun.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's not more fun to blast heno over the mailing list, for attempting to sweep things under the carpet?
<Hobbsee> besides, having a go at people who aren't allowed to learn any better, before they screw up, doesn't seem fair.
<Hobbsee> it would make more sense to have a go at the people who are *preventing* them from learning better, before they fail.
<Hobbsee> maybe it's just my background, but i've found that complaining to the right person tends to be more effective :)
<ScottK> Well I thought I'd done that already in discussing it with bdmurray, but I guess not.
<Hobbsee> and stops you getting pulled up in front of the CC, where, at least in the examined case, it seems that the decisions are definetly in favour of the complainee, and where only selective proof is viewed.
<Hobbsee> but hey, maybe the irc people just got their bad side that day, or something.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: if it's not public, it didn't happen.
<ScottK> IRC channels are logged, so if push comes to shove, it's public.
 * ScottK isn't at all excited about adding another mailing list to his inbox.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I don't see a mail from wolfger in the archive for that list?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2008-May/000842.html ?
<ScottK> Ah.  That one.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: so they touch every bug that has status "New". :-(
<Hobbsee> slytherin: something like that.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: But I don't see a point in removing what you had documented. And he claims it is not fair to read everything, then how are new traigers supposed to learn?
 * slytherin time to go home
<\sh> re
<tbielawa> regarding CDBS. is it terrible practice to include a modded debhelper cdbs script in your debian/ and include $(CURRDR)/debian/modded.dhelper
<tbielawa> I needed to make ti stop calling the dh_shlibdeps line
<james_w> tbielawa: can you explain why you need to avoid dh_shlibdeps, that sounds odd.
<tbielawa> packaging synopsys,
<tbielawa> got the idea from http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/529 to strip out the shlibdep line
<tbielawa> got errors when it was included :(
<tbielawa> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11690/
<james_w> thanks, do you have any idea where "libTcadBase.so.1" is? Is it in this package?
<james_w> also, that RPATH looks pretty stinky.
<mruiz> hi all
 * tbielawa looks
<RoAkSoAx> hi all... have a question... if i added a patch which it's found here: http://hg.alsa-project.org/alsa-tools/raw-rev/9d1e48f8dd5d should i mention in the changelog that i obtained from there or just the description of the patch?
<james_w> RoAkSoAx: either one should work.
<james_w> you can put the full details in the patch description, and just mention the patch came from upstream in the changelog.
<RoAkSoAx> james_w, i put this in the changelog: Added fix_channel_map_adat_speed_1.patch, which fixes the channel map for ADAT speed mode 1.
<RoAkSoAx> so i should not mention that i obtained it from an alsa project bug?
<james_w> RoAkSoAx: "Patch taken from upstream." would be fine to add as a second sentence there.
<james_w> "Patch taken from upstream bug 12345." as well.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<james_w> the main aim is to help the next person to merge the package, so they can quickly work out that the patch can be dropped as it is now included upstream.
<RoAkSoAx> and 12345 would be this: ALSA bug#3732 ?
<james_w> that should be fine.
<RoAkSoAx> thanks =)
<ScottK> I guess I'm back to just giving out CoC complaint hate on people who cause bugmail spam on workflow bugs.
<greg-g> ScottK: I understand your frustration, I do.  Just don't take everyone's jabber in there as official bug squad opinion.
<ScottK> Well until someone reverts the removal of the documentation, I think it stands for the official bug squad opinion.
<greg-g> ScottK: for that really there should be a discussion with heno if we want to be team players.
<nicolasvw> When a package is synced from debian, is it rebuild from the debian .dsc or is it just copied over?
<ScottK> nicolasvw: Source is imported and rebuilt.  Ubuntu has source compatibility with Debian, no guarantees on binary compatibility.
<nicolasvw> ScottK: So the meaning of a package ending in -Xbuild1 in the MoM list is just that at some point between the autosync and the release it had to be rebuilt?
<ScottK> nicolasvw: Yes.  Those should get automatically sync'ed over when the time comes.
<ScottK> nicolasvw: Note that the MoM output is currently out of date.
<ScottK> nicolasvw: The key difference between build1 and ubuntu1 is that build1 will get sync'ed over.
<nicolasvw> ScottK: ok; I see. What's the best practice to avoid duplicate work with MoM outdated? Be lucky?
<ScottK> nicolasvw: Use DaD
<ScottK> nicolasvw: http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php and in general check with the person that touched it last.
<nicolasvw> ScottK: will do, thanks for all the light you have brought!
<ScottK> nicolasvw: No problem.  Thanks for working on making Ubuntu better.
<ScottK> greg-g: I missed your second point when you wrote it.  Unilaterally reverting other's wiki changes without discussion I think speaks for itself about being a team player.
<greg-g> ScottK: I agree, but I just don't want to continue the "cycle" or whatever.
<ScottK> greg-g: Sure.  I'm just out of energy for arguing about it.
<greg-g> I understand, it is getting to that point :)
<greg-g> I'll be around if you need a 'go between' for anything later, all the best
<Dane2> ï»¿Hello, all.  I've been trying to cross-compile asterisk (compiling i386 binary using amd64 distro) using pbuilder/dh_make/debuild, but I keep getting the following error after the compile completes, and it's about to make a binary package: "build_tools/mkpkgconfig: 34: cannot create /usr/lib/pkgconfig/asterisk.pc: Permission denied"
<Dane2> any ideas?
<Dane2> I've tried asking on #asterisk and #ubuntu-devel, and I was directed here.
<jdavies> Dane2: could you pastebin debian/rules at paste.ubuntu.com?
<Dane2> sure.  One min.
<Dane2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11699/
<Dane2> it seems to choke at the "make install" step.
<jdavies> Dane2: do you mean lines 63-65? I do not see a make insatll, ony amek
<Dane2> yes, 63-65
<Dane2> I'm not sure, though.  I'm kind-of a packaging novice.
<jdavies> Should it not be: "$(MAKE) install prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/asterisk/usr" ?
<Dane2> I'll give that a shot.
<Dane2> one min.
<Dane2> I'll pastebin the whole error too, once the compile completes (assuming the above didn't fix it).
<Dane2> here's the entire error I just got: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11701/
<jdavies> Dane2: I think it's ecause it's trying to write to sh build_tools/mkpkgconfig /usr/lib/pkgconfig; fi
<geser> Dane2: looks like mkpkgconfig doesn't respect prefix
<jdavies> err, /usr/lib/pkgconfig when it should be debian/asterik/usr/lib/pkgconfig
<Dane2> should I just edit mkpkgconfig then?
<geser> Dane2: where does this asterisk package come from?
<jdavies> Dane2: or the Makefile that gos: "sh build_tools/mkpkgconfig"
<Dane2> (and if so, what should I do?  I can paste the file if necessary)
<Dane2> I downloaded it directly form asterisk.org.
<Dane2> I'll paste the Makefile and the mkpkgconfig.
<Dane2> (The asterisk folks always recommend using the latest stable [or even svn] version)
<geser> Dane2: why not re-compile the package from Debian unstable if you need a newer version than in hardy?
<Dane2> I haven't tried doing that before; I've always just used the source from the asterisk site, but I've never tried it with pbuilder.  I'm trying to learn how to make my own packages, so that maybe one day I can get good at it and actually maintain something.  :-)
<Dane2> here's the paste: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11703/
<geser> Dane2: try also passing DESTDIR when calling make in debian/rules
<geser> $(MAKE) prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/asterisk/usr install
<geser> $(MAKE) prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/asterisk/usr DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/asterisk install
<Dane2> one min...talking to a customer.  Thanks for the help, btw.
<slomo> siretart: good gst-ffmpeg without usage of deprecated img_convert is uploaded to experimental now ;) it uses swscale now
<sebner> slomo: have you read it? Somebody wants to merge *your* mono :)
<slomo> sebner: iirc it can be synced without changes
<slomo> but if someone wants to look at it, fine ;)
<sebner> ^^
<Dane2> trying to build the package now.
<Dane2> It seems to have worked!  It's giving me grief about not having wget in the pbuilder environment, but that's easily remedied by adding a dependency.  Thanks!
<PasNox> hi there
<Dane2> Rockin!  The package is built!  You guys are awesome.  Thanks again.
<PasNox> i would like to report that the webissues package is outdate, does it's planned to update it ?
<PasNox> it's now at 0.92 stable version, but repository always got 0.91 version
<PasNox> the new version got many new features that would imply a package update
<mruiz> Hi... where can I find information about regular expressions used on debian/watch file ?
<ScottK> mruiz: man uscan
<mruiz> thanks ScottK
<ScottK> Anyone from motu-sru willing to venture on if Bug 229646 is good for an SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229646 in spamassassin "spamassassin chokes when using PostgreSQL as Bayes store" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229646
<Dane2> Hello, again.  I'm getting a "tail: cannot open `debian/changelog' for reading: No such file or directory" pbuilder error.  Do any of you have an idea why that could be?  There is a debian/changelog file in the source dir.
<tbielawa> Dane2: are you runningt the build command from your source directory?
<LaserJock> ScottK: is that a problem?
<Dane2> yes, I am.
<tbielawa> that's weird
<ScottK> LaserJock: Yes.  You can't use pg for your bayes storage.  There are other ways to do it, but it's inconvenient at the very least.
<Dane2> yeah.  I'm trying with a fresh dh_make now...
<ScottK> LaserJock: Tell me no to an SRU and I'll do a backport.  I'm good either way.
<LaserJock> ScottK: so it make postgresql unusable?
<LaserJock> ScottK: and it looks like the patch from the bug could be applied to our version, is that correct?
<Dane2> odd.  Still getting the error: tail: cannot open `debian/changelog' for reading: No such file or directory
<ScottK> LaserJock: It makes you have to use an earlier version of pg for your bayes store or some other method (there are others)
<ScottK> Since bayes store is self contained, I think it's not impossible to work around.
<emgent> heya people
<mruiz> hi elkbuntu
<mruiz> hi emgent
<LaserJock> ScottK: seems like it'd be a regression to me and SRU worthy. Can you just use the patch on their bugzilla?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Yes.  I'm going to upload it to Intrepid first, but due to Perl 5.10 transition it may take a bit.
<LaserJock> ScottK: go  ahead an work up the bug report for an SRU. I'd like to see something about the seriousness. At first glance, not being familiar with SA, it looked cosmetic.
<ScottK> OK.  THanks.
<LaserJock> emgent: you need an ack from a Core Dev for debianutils :-)
<emgent> yes
<emgent> :D
<emgent> LaserJock: big thanks :P
<emgent> LaserJock: if you have time see cron too
<LaserJock> looking at it right now
<LaserJock> but why did you add the sysv-rc dependency?
<LaserJock> emgent: and I don't see the changes from 3.0pl1-100ubuntu2, were they taken upstream?
<sebner> emgent: you are very active today. great ;)
<emgent> sebner: lol
<emgent> LaserJock: for update-rc.d behaviour
<emgent> added in edgy if i remember well and seems necessary
<LaserJock> emgent: but I don't see where it was used after edgy
<emgent> LaserJock: if i remember well is in feisty too, just a moment
<LaserJock> i.e.  the Feisty merge changelog only mentions the stop links
<emgent> LaserJock: false
<emgent> is in feisty too
<emgent> not writed in changelog
<emgent> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/c/cron/cron_3.0pl1-100ubuntu1.diff.gz
<emgent> but sysv-rc is present in feisty debdiff.
<emgent> norsetto: o/
<norsetto> emgent: 0/
<emgent> LaserJock: sorry for my english, it`s a little shit :P
<sebner> huhu norsetto
<norsetto> master sebner good evening
<sebner> norsetto: ^^. if there is a master then it's you ;P
<norsetto> sebner: I'm just an humble servant
<sebner> norsetto: well, I wouldn't complain if you were my servant ;)
<norsetto> sebner: what about a pay raise then? Its about time .....
<sebner> norsetto: are you paid for your ubuntu work? no? You work for me because you love me ^^
<LaserJock> emgent: ok, now what about the diff from 3.0pl1-100ubuntu2?
<emgent> LaserJock: just a moment
<emgent> :)
 * norsetto is amazed to see for the first time a 3-digits debian revision number
<emgent> LaserJock: too.
<emgent> LaserJock: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/c/cron/cron_3.0pl1-100ubuntu2.diff.gz
<emgent> LaserJock: grep sysv-rc :)
<sebner> lol. however. back to mathematics :\
<LaserJock> emgent: I mean, I don't see those changes in your debdiff
<LaserJock> emgent: so where they taken upstream or do we still need them?
<LaserJock> *were
<emgent> seems yes LaserJock, i was tested it and work fine.
<LaserJock> emgent: what do you mean by "seems", did you  look for the change?
<emgent> LaserJock: yes but in the last merge Scott James apply this  but dont wrote in changelog.
<LaserJock> k
<emgent> norsetto: mr brown on italia1 :)
<norsetto> emgent: believe it or not, I have no tv
<bmm> Hi guys. I'm a bit confused by a package which was coming from debian and seems to have been lost. When will packages from debian get into ubuntu? (package is boswars bug #128416 )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 128416 in bos "[needs-packaging] http://www.boswars.org/" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/128416
<emgent> norsetto: hehe
<geser> bmm: boswars is already in intrepid
<emgent> hi geser :)
<geser> Hi emgent
<LaserJock> emgent: I think unfortunately briquolo may need a merge
<emgent> LaserJock: nope
<emgent> i talk with james_w about it
<LaserJock> emgent: did you test the package?
<LaserJock> i.e. does the menu item have an icon?
<emgent> yes, ifrst mee too thinking to merge
<emgent> s/ifrst/frist/
<emgent> but is a sync
<LaserJock> emgent: but did you specifically test that the icon works?
<emgent> just a moment i go to grep log
<bmm> geser: hmm... I must have searched wrong with packages.ubuntu.com... will get back on this ;-)
<emgent> LaserJock: yes
<emgent> work fin, you like screenshot ?
<emgent> :)
<emgent> s/fin/fine/
<LaserJock> emgent: I'll believe you, I'm just surprised
<geser> bmm: does p.u.c already list intrepid? I used LP: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boswars
<emgent> LaserJock: np :)
<LaserJock> emgent: because the .desktop use the .svg extention when it's really a .xpm
<emgent> http://thc.emanuele-gentili.com/~emgent/briquolo.png (this is games menu)
<Arby> what does it mean if I get 'The requested URL /k/ktorrent/REPORT was not found on this server.' on merges.ubuntu.com?
<Arby> that the merge has been completed and uploaded?
<Arby> I did that merge and got a bunch of failed to build e-mails
<Arby> I went to get a clean copy of the files to check my changes and now it's gone.
<Arby> just wondering what's going on
<geser> Arby: a merge vanishes from MoM on the next run if it get's uploaded (as there isn't anything to merge right now)
<norsetto> geser: puc is a little behind in intrepid
<Arby> geser: so is that independent of whether it builds or not after upload
<Jazzva> norsetto: I sorted out issues with the gnome-mplayer, but I have to go for an hour now. Switching to windows, to prepare for the lab practice tomorrow. I'll be back in an hour, clean the package and prepare a new upload :)
<Arby> and as an aside how often is MoM run?
<norsetto> Jazzva: good luck
<Jazzva> norsetto: Thanks :)
<geser> Arby: yes and I guess MoM is updated once daily (but I'm not sure)
<geser> Arby: looks like ktorrent is missing a build-dependency on cdbs
<Arby> geser: yes I know, I've fixed that and hit a further problem
<Arby> there was a conflict in a cpp file and I've accidentally introduced an error
<Arby> hence why I was trying to get a clean copy
<geser> Arby: you need to get then the old Ubuntu version (e.g. from LP) and the old Debian version and compute the delta (debdiff)
<ScottK> geser: I think MoM is not updating right now.  DaD seems to manage it though.
<geser> ScottK: universe.html           12-May-2008 20:59  218K
<geser> from MoM
<geser> looks quite uptodate
<ScottK> OK.  Maybe it's finally started then.  Thanks.  It'd been a few days since I checked.
<Arby> geser: thanks
<bmm> geser: p.u.c does not list boswars yet, but it is in the archive.ubuntu.com, so it is probably just lagging behind. Thanks for the info!
<Syntux> guys, scsi_info was part of pcmcia-cs in gutsy but not anymore, how can I check why it was removed?
<ScottK> Syntux: Did you look in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/pcmciautils
<ScottK> Syntux: The why is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/pcmcia-cs/1:0
<mruiz> How is the correct use of requestsync? I tried to do the following "requestsync -s ubuntu-universe-sponsors --lp kazehakase intrepid" and I got:  ubuntu-universe-sponsors doesn't appear to exist in kazehakase, specify -n for a package not in Ubuntu.
<Syntux> ScottK, yeah I checked that page before but didn't understand why
<geser> mruiz: leave out the ubuntu-universe-sponsors, requestsync -s subscribes the correct team automagically
<ScottK> mruiz: requestsync -s kazehakase intrepid is all you need
<ScottK> Syntux: The package has been renamed or the functionality folded into another package are the usual reasons.
<mruiz> geser, ScottK : thanks :)
<Syntux> ScottK, yeah, that's the usual reasons but scsi_info does not exists anymore in any package
<ScottK> Ah.  Well that's a bit different then.
<Syntux> yeah :-)
 * ScottK looks some more.
<ScottK> Syntux: How about http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=394018
<ubottu> Debian bug 394018 in pcmcia-source "pcmcia-source: Obsolete - please remove" [Important,Closed]
<Syntux> although it doesn't explain why (I guess kernel support thingy) but ok
<siretart> slomo: excellent. I assume that we can now disable that patch in ffmpeg, right?
<Syntux> the device manager was replace with restricted manager?
<Syntux> or gnome-device-manager
<ryanakca> dpatch vs quilt, I'm guessing I should go for dpatch?
<ScottK> ryanakca: You should go for whichever works for you.
<ScottK> There are plenty of quilt fanboys around, but I don't get the excitement myself.
<ryanakca> ScottK: ok, well, I'm used to the CDBS patch system, but this particular merge a) doesn't have a patch system and b) doesn't use CDBS...
 * ryanakca will try quilt out first
<ScottK> ryanakca: If you've used cdbs-edit-patch, then dpatch-edit-patch will be familiar.
<ryanakca> ok, thanks
<ryanakca> Another thing, how often do MoM/DaD get updated?
<Lutin> once an hour for DaD iirc, don't know for MoM
<sebner> geser: now you can ACK all of them. I testbuilded all of them ;)
<ScottK> Twice a day for MoM, I think.
<sebner> ScottK: only DaD rocks :P
<ScottK> sebner: Except when it gives you a bogus merge diff.  Each tool has it's advantanges.
<Lutin> ScottK: does it still happen ?
<Lutin> except the one marked as broken, thqt is
<ScottK> Lutin: I haven't hit any that aren't marked.
<sebner> ScottK: well, true but my experience was that MoM likes to break something more than DaD
<ScottK> Hopefully at UDS we get them all put toghether and we are one happy family again.
<Lutin> ScottK: ok. true, relying on snapshots.debian.net is not ideal :)
<sebner> ScottK: btw, no stress with courier. won't have the time to work on it until weekend
<ryanakca> shouldn't debian/mon.init.d start with "#!/bin/sh" instead of "#! /bin/sh"?
<crimsun> ryanakca: no.
<crimsun> people generally aren't pedantic about the former, however.
<ryanakca> crimsun: ah, thanks
<Jazzva> norsetto: Looks like the watch file is not working with google code's archive
<norsetto> LaserJock: got another one for you guys if you want to check it out: bug 229703
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229703 in trousers "Fails to install" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229703
<RainCT> good night
<sebner> gn8 RainCT
<Jazzva> norsetto: It gives me 404 for the dir which should contain the files (http://gnome-mplayer.googlecode.com/files/), download location for the newest is http://gnome-mplayer.googlecode.com/files/gnome-mplayer-0.6.1.tar.gz
<norsetto> Jazzva: check the uscan man page, there is a way to use a referral http page
<Jazzva> ok
<norsetto> Jazzva: this should probably be ok: http://code.google.com/p/gnome-mplayer/downloads/list as the referral page
<Jazzva> norsetto: Thanks, it worked :)
<norsetto> jazzva: good :-)
<ryanakca> should the creation of /var/run/mon (if it doesn't exist) be in the start) section of the init script, or should it be outside of it / have its existence assured at every operation?
<persia> ryanakca: At every start is likely safe, so long as it is in the init script, and not in the postinst.
<ryanakca> persia: thanks
<sebner> persia: I have a cloak now ;) but mail is still missing :(
<persia> sebner: These things take time...
<Erosion> Does one have to use ubuntu to be a MOTU?
<sebner> persia: kk, btw. I thought the members of universe-contributors ( currently only me ^^) also have more *rights* on LP. not only the goodies like ubuntumembership
<crimsun> Erosion: no.
<ScottK> Erosion: Not technically, but I'm not sure why your would want to?
<Erosion> ScottK: I run OSX present, I'm a previous ubuntu user though, and still run it, but on my everyday machine.
<sebner> argh
<sebner> *reights
<ryanakca> Erosion: but.... how would you package if not on Ubuntu?
<sebner> no *rights is correct ^^
<crimsun> Erosion: also, regarding your question in -bugs about iMac audio - you haven't provided any hardware info.  Namely, the bug team would need the codec spew (/proc/asound/card*/*codec*{,/*})
<persia> sebner: Not at this time.  Possibly in the future.  Needs to be proposed, agreed with the relevant bodies, and confirmed by MOTU.
<Erosion> ryanakca: That's why I asked :)
<persia> Erosion: You'd at least want to run Ubuntu in a virtual machine, as otherwise testing is problematic.
<sebner> persia: in other words. will take very long. I thought this was also planned!? I don't speak from big rights. just things like changing the importance of a bug or something like this
<geser> sebner: sync request for ocaml-* ACKed
<Erosion> persia: OK.
<sebner> geser: great. thx
<norsetto> sebner: apply to bugcontrol for that, it will be a good exercise for you to do some bug triaging
<geser> sebner: or wait for MOTU :)
<sebner> ^^
<emgent> sebner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
<emgent> :)
<sebner> geser: norsetto : Just thought that members of the universe contributors have a little bit experience with bugs .. besides it would be funny if I could set my sync and merge bugs to "wishlist"
<emgent> sebner: apply in bugcontrol :P
<sebner> ember: We'll see
<Jazzva> norsetto: What's the right way of uploading new upstream versions? Preparing an interdiff?
<norsetto> Jazzva: no, we changed to diff.gz
<Jazzva> Then I should provide .orig.tar.gz and diff.gz produced by the build?
<Jazzva> norsetto: ^
<persia> Jazzva: Your orig.tar.gz should be generated by debian/rules get-orig-source
<norsetto> Jazzva: just the diff.gz, the tarball we can retrieve with the watch file
<persia> (or, yes, a watch file also works :) )
<Jazzva> norsetto, persia: Thanks :)
<sebner> gn8 folks
<Jazzva> norsetto: Uploaded diff.gz bug 226195
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226195 in gnome-mplayer "Please update gnome-mplayer/gecko-mediaplayer" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226195
<norsetto> Jazzva: thx, will check it out tomorrow (your tomorrow :-)).
<Jazzva> norsetto: Heh :)... Ok
<Jazzva> I'll start working on gecko-mediaplayer, I hope I'll finish it tomorrow ;)
<Jazzva> Thanks :)
<norsetto> jazzva: did you test it btw?
<Jazzva> I reviewed it :)... Tested the package I prepared...
<Jazzva> Everything looks ok
<norsetto> jazzva: ok, no surprises with the gconf file then I gather, thx
<Jazzva> And tested diff.gz... Everything went ok
<Jazzva> np :)
<no0tic> apachelogger, sorry, I took your pokerth but I think I can't manage to merge it by myself, too many changes and I'm still in full learning process.. better if I continue with simpler packages first
<norsetto> jazzva: can you check in the svn if the patch we have in 0.6.0 was added? I was told by upstream that there shouldn't be any need in 0.6.1, so I'm surprised you kept it
<Jazzva> norsetto: I checked in the file, but it wasn't added. Though, not in svn...
<Jazzva> I'll check now
<Jazzva> norsetto: It was added in the svn, but we can keep the patch, since it does the same thing... :)
<norsetto> jazzva: perfect
<Laibsch> Hi, I hope this is the right channel to ask.  How do I get dch to use hardy instead of intrepid by default?
<Laibsch> I am going to bed now, but will leave the IRC client running, so thanks in advance for any response.
<Jazzva> Laibsch: dch --release
<Laibsch> Jazzva: Thanks
<Jazzva> Laibsch: Forget it... It does something else
<Laibsch> I mean, "by default"
<Jazzva> :)
<crimsun> dch -d
<crimsun> -D
<Laibsch> no
<james_w> --distribution is the correct switch (-D)
<Laibsch> I want to set it either in a config file
<Laibsch> or some environment variable
<Laibsch> and then never have to worry about it again
<james_w> that doesn't seem to be available from reading the manpage
<crimsun> /etc/devscripts.conf ?
<Laibsch> yes, I of course read the man page, too
<Laibsch> Which is why I came here ;-)
<Laibsch> crimsun: I'll take a look
<Laibsch> Thanks
<Laibsch> crimsun: grep dist ï»¿/etc/devscripts.conf
<Laibsch> at least finds nothing
<james_w> Laibsch: I think a wishlist bug against devscripts would be reasonable here
<Laibsch> crimsun: DEBCHANGE_RELEASE_HEURISTIC ?
<crimsun> what james said, and you can add the appropriate changes to check_env_utf8('DISTRIBUTION');, etc.
<Laibsch> OK
<Laibsch> Tomorrow
<Laibsch> Thanks
<norsetto> Jazzva: looks good, uploaded!
<Jazzva> norsetto: Yay :). Thanks.
<norsetto> jazzva: you only forgot to add the LP: #xxxxxx tag, so, mark it fix-released once it build
<Jazzva> norsetto: I thought I added it last night... Damn. Ok, I'll do that.
<mruiz> Hi all
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-13
<mruiz> I'm working on a sync, and I have a versioning problem (Debian < Ubuntu). I want to know how should I rename Debian version...
<mruiz> an example:  dpkg --compare-versions 0.0.4-2 gt 0.0.4ubuntu5 ; echo $? gave me 1 as result (false)
<crimsun> hmm, it became non-native?
<norsetto> g'nigth all
<crimsun> you can alway sort the Debian versioning later, e.g., 0.0.4.1-1, if you control the upstream versioning itself.
<crimsun> or, use an epoch
<mruiz> crimsun, it was an error version number introduced by a Debian NMU
<crimsun> mruiz: ok, in that case, if you don't control upstream versioning as well, then you can force it to sort later.  0.0.4+foo-1.  Ugly, yes.  Epochs are also useful.
<coppro> does anyone know a screencasting software that doesn't segfault?
<greg-g> heh
<coppro> vlc and xvidcap both go kaput when they try and record
<greg-g> I haven't had good luck with istanbul either
<greg-g> but you can try that one
<mok0> persia: ping
<ryanakca> crap, is there any way to remove an attachment to a bug / supersede it? *foolishly forgot the (LP: #xxxxxx) in his merge debdiff*
<LaserJock> ryanakca: yeah, you can
<LaserJock> ryanakca: in the "Bug Attachments" portlet on the left you hit the "edit" link for your attachment
<ryanakca> LaserJock: thanks :D
<ryanakca> if a MOTU wanted to look at bug #229744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229744 in mon "Please merge mon 0.99.2-12 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229744
<ryanakca> Another thing... The checkpolicy version currently in Ubuntu is checkpolicy_2.0.9-0ubuntu1. The Debian version that I'm trying to merge into Ubuntu is checkpolicy_2.0.12-1 . How can I tell that there aren't any inline patches that I'll loose when merging?
<ryanakca> (the source is rather different)
<ajmitch> by talking with the original uploader to ubuntu (who is part of upstream, iirc)
<ryanakca> ajmitch: ok, thanks :)
<ajmitch> I doubt that he's added any, but I don't know what's planned - I'm hoping it can just end up as a sync from debian
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hi
<ajmitch> LaserJock: good day
<LaserJock> ajmitch: how's the weather your way? getting cold?
<ajmitch> moderately
<ajmitch> we don't have the extremes of many places
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> too much ocean?
<ajmitch> yep
<emgent> LaserJock: heya :)
<ajmitch> so it's not often that we'd get snow in the city in winter
<LaserJock> ajmitch: weird
<LaserJock> you're so far south
<LaserJock> emgent: hi, everything go ok?
<nixternal> hola
<nixternal> que paso
<emgent> LaserJock: yes :)
<LaserJock> oh nos, it's  Richard!
<RoAkSoAx> nixternal, no paso nada :P
<ajmitch> LaserJock: les me show you a map...
<nixternal> hola le vato
<ajmitch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Antipodes_LAEA.png
<ajmitch> so southern NZ is at about a similar (opposite) latitude as france
<RoAkSoAx> nixternal, you from chicago right?
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> hehe
<RoAkSoAx> nixternal, how is IIT ? good place to be?
<nxvl> 2 more days and i'm going to Prague!!
<nxvl> wohoo
<nixternal> oh ya...if you are interested in finding out more, on OFTC is #chiglug, 90% of the people in there go to IIT, and so does eddieftw/posingaspopular
<nxvl> i really can wait to meet you all out there
<nixternal> #chiglug on OFTC is hardcore anti-CoC if you catch my drift :)  a bunch of drunk hackers
 * ajmitch has even managed to meet 1 or 2 MOTUs before at previous UDS events
<RoAkSoAx> haha lol... i might choose IIT to study a MS in CS
<nxvl> nixternal: heh, like #linuxperu, the only OT is linux :P
<nixternal> hahah
<nixternal> ya, exactly
<nixternal> RoAkSoAx: put it this way, the geeks in chiglug from IIT, created their own file system in a day
<nixternal> I go to their LUG meetings, and 90% of the time I am lost with their talks
<ryanakca> heh, interesting
<RoAkSoAx> haha lol... i'm between FIU and IIT, but i might be go for IIT cuz it requires less score in the GRE.. and might be easier to obtain an schoolarship.. since i'll be international student
 * ryanakca wonders how long it takes for a mailed bug to appear on LP
<ryanakca> not that long ;)
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: for a PhD you mena?
<nxvl> mean*
 * LaserJock runs
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, my University has some kind of relationship with IIT and FIU and i could get an schoolarship for Masters and PhD
<RoAkSoAx> i just need to pass the GRE and i would be likely to obtain it :D
<nxvl> oh ok
<nxvl> well i need to run in some minutes i think
<nxvl> if don't answer is that i'm not here
<RoAkSoAx> TheMuso, thanks for reviewing alsa-tools :)
<LaserJock> nxvl: what are you suggesting in your email?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> nxvl: In your mail: Did the contributor in question discuss the merge with the previous uploader first?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i thought that got (wrongly) abolished?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: There is no rule, but I'm gonna suggest rule or not it's a sensible practice.
<ScottK> Any MOTU ought to check open bugs before uploading, but they don't always.
<StevenK> I tend to, if I have time.
 * Hobbsee does check bugs, but also thinks people should check with her if they want to take a merge.
<ScottK> StevenK: Do you know if there is someone planning on rebuilding everything that depends on perl 5.8 API?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I agree.
<Hobbsee> but that got outvoted previously
<ScottK> I can also understand nxvl's frustration.  These things happen too.
<StevenK> ScottK: For Perl 5.10?
<ScottK> StevenK: Yes.
<ScottK> I had to do two perl lib rebuild uploads today before I could upload spamassassin due to them being uninstallable.
<LaserJock> well, if we sponsored merges/syncs quickly it really shouldn't be a problem
<LaserJock> and I dislike the ping-the-previous-uploader personally, I think we can do better
<StevenK> Mmmmmmm. The problem is, Debian is in the middle of the transistion, so we either have to duplicate work or wait. Since we like to beat down the merges queue, we duplicate.
<ScottK> StevenK: If it's just a rebuild, they'll binnmu and we'll still have to do it.  I don't see the duplication.
 * ScottK wasn't merging.  Was bug fixing.
<StevenK> ScottK: Okay, so libxxx-perl is uninstallable. We upload a rebuild, giving us 1.10-1build1. They release 1.10-2 and we need to merge, thereby doing the work the Debian Maintainer did before they did.
<ScottK> StevenK: Why would there be a -2?  They'd do -1+b1 or somesuch on the binary with no source change.  Wouldn't they?
<StevenK> ScottK: I didn't say it'd be a binNMU, you did.
<ScottK> I guess if a package just needs a rebuild, I'm trying to figure out why they'd do anything else.
<ScottK> As I understand it source uploads for such things are discouraged in Debian.
<StevenK> Source-only uploads to Debian are rejected, I thought.
<ScottK> Yes.  OK.  Source + Binary instead of binNMU.
<ScottK> Nevermind then.  No point in arguing over it.
<ScottK> It'll be needed or not.  One or the other eventually.
<StevenK> ScottK: I suspect I'm not being clear enough, sorry.
 * StevenK is somewhat distracted by $WORK
<ScottK> Understand.  No problem.
<DaneM> Hello.  I'm having a strange pbuilder problem.  I have used dh_make and debuild in the source directory, but when I go to build it using pbuilder, I get the following after it installs the dependencies: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11768/  Any help would be great!
<DaneM> (and if you read the error, yes, debian/control exists)
<StevenK> DaneM: You don't have a debian/changelog file
<StevenK> tail: cannot open `debian/changelog' for reading: No such file or directory
<DaneM> hold on...I'll paste my directory contents and my changelog...I stripped it down as best I could to make sure it wasn't a formatting thing.
<DaneM> (if I put it in the wrong place, though...)
<StevenK> It needs to be in ./debian/changelog in the top-level of the unpacked source package
<StevenK> Many tools look for it there, and will get confused if they can't find it.
<DaneM> nodnod.  pasting now (for better clarity)
<DaneM> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11770/
<StevenK> DaneM: It shouldn't be stable in the changelog. But the directory listing looks fine to me.
<StevenK> DaneM: I'd suggest copying the .dsc, .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz to a temporary directory and dpkg-source -x the .dsc, and seeing if it looks strange
<DaneM> StevenK: hmmmm.  I'm totally a novice on this stuff, so please enlighten me :-)  I'll take your word for it on the stable thing.  What should I change it to?  I'll give the copy a shot too.
<StevenK> DaneM: Well, which release are you targetting?
<DaneM> Hardy
<DaneM> ok...I'll change it to that then.
<StevenK> Lowercase :-)
<DaneM> k
<DaneM> StevenK: I unpacked the .dsc, and sure enough, the changelog is in ./debian/changelog.
<StevenK> That's ... odd
<DaneM> yeah, that's what I say!  :-p
<TheMuso> RoAkSoAx: No problem./
<DaneM> should I paste any other files?  I'm not sure if the rules file is right...I edited it the best I could to get it to build the asterisk-addons samples as well as the regular stuff.
<RoAkSoAx> =)
<StevenK> DaneM: Put the source package up on the Intraweb, and I'll poke at it when I have a moment?
<StevenK> That could be June, though :-/
<DaneM> hehe thanks.  I'm a newbie; what's the Intraweb?
<StevenK> The Internet, I'm being silly
<DaneM> hehe ok.  I'll see if I can find a place.  I don't really have a web presence :-(
<DaneM> thanks for looking at my problem.
<bbyever> how can i enable intrepid repos?
<ScottK> bbyever: What release are you running and what are you trying to do?
<bbyever> ï»¿ScottK: im running hardy and i am trying to build the package bygfoot, which depends on default-jdk-builddep and its only available on intrepid
<bbyever> oops, sorry, im trying ot build jabref
<ScottK> You don't want to take the binary packages from Intrepid.  You want to take the source and build those.
<ScottK> You can edit the deb-src lines in /etc/apt/sources.list to say intrepid instean of hardy and then apt-get update, apt-get source $PACKAGE.
<bbyever> ScottK: but why would i want the source? shouldnt i get the binaries to install the dependencies?
<StevenK> ScottK: He wants Build dependancies
<ScottK> bbyever: They binaries are built on the Intrepid tool chain.  They main or may not be installable/work as expected.
<ScottK> bbyever: Get the source to the stuff you want and then build it on Hardy.  Install that and use it to build your package for Hardy.
<bbyever> ScottK: ok, thanks
<ScottK> bbyever: Installing packages built on a different tool chain will eventually lead to tears.
<bbyever> ok
<bbyever> Im getting a source package not found error
<ScottK> Did you change Universe/Main as needed?
<bbyever> i updated universe
<bbyever> but i cant change main
<bbyever> i get Failed to fetch http://tazcatl.fciencias.unam.mx/ubuntu/dists/intrepid/main/source/Sources.gz  302 Found
<ScottK> I'd pick a different mirror then.
<StevenK> Then it's redirecting you, and apt doesn't like redirects
<bbyever> ok
<StevenK> Run wget for that URL, and see what it redirects you to, and edit your sources.list entry
<bbyever> it redirects to guide.opendns.com
<bbyever> it worked with archive.ubuntu.com
<StevenK> http://guide.opendns.com/ubuntu/dists/intrepid/main/source/Sources.gz gives 404 for me, at least
<StevenK> Yes, it would.
<bbyever> it found the source now. thanks
<bbyever> ok so i downloaded the source default-jdk-builddep and i made the debs but when i try to install them, i get dependency not satisfied errors, even though i've installed the dependencies that it said it was missiog
<bbyever> missing*
<ScottK> With appropriate versions?
<bbyever> the package installer didnt say which version of the dependency to install
<bbyever> is it because the dependencies have to be from intrepid as well=
<bbyever> ?*
<ScottK> Install with -V (e.g. sudo apt-get install -V $PACKAGE)
<ScottK> It should tell you then.
<ScottK> How are you making the .debs?
<bbyever> debuild
<bbyever> i have to go, i'll try to get this figured out tomorrow. thanks ScottK and StevenK
<LucidFox> What happened to edge.launchpad.net? It lost CSS styling
<LucidFox> regular launchpad.net works fine
<LucidFox> oh, wait
<LucidFox> never mind
<slomo> siretart: from my side... yes ;)
 * TheMuso would kick his local area power grid for being so flaky at this point, but doesn't wish to lose power again.
<tbielawa> lol
<TheMuso> Well we do have electrical storm activity here atm, but its normally nothing that would cause power outages in other areas.
<nxvl> ScottK: nop, last uploader and new uploader aren't the same person
<nxvl> ScottK: so if the contributor talk with the developer or not, is tha same
<siretart> slomo: well, then go for it. you have commit access :)
<nxvl> ScottK: also, the previus uploader commented on the bug report of the merge
<nxvl> ScottK: but didn't upload it
<slomo> siretart: what's the plan for lenny now btw? or will ffmpeg stay in experimental forever?
<siretart> slomo: -!- Topic for #debian-release: this is not #debian-devel | requests for Etch 4.0r4, transitions, binNMUs: mail debian-release | ongoing: perl5.10, speex, heimdal, clamav, libmilter(sendmail) | pending: xulrunner, ocaml, ffmpeg, poppler
<slomo> siretart: great :)
<siretart> slomo: iow: waiting for a free slot. the upload is build and signed waiting at http://people.debiaan.org/ffmpeg
<dholbach> good morning
<nxvl> dholbach: gutten tag
<nxvl> dholbach: i send an e-mail to -motu for you :D
<dholbach> nxvl: I'd recommend to send it to ubuntu-devel@
<nxvl> dholbach: i will tomorrow
<nxvl> dholbach: i finish some stuff and go to sleep
<dholbach> nxvl: alright - thanks
<nxvl> btw
<nxvl> did someone know where can i find DaD's source?
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, maybe next to MoM's source?? lol :P
<LucidFox> What's DaD?
<LucidFox> Or what's MoM, for that matter?
<nxvl> Merges-o-Matic
<tbielawa> LucidFox: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html is the URL. it tries to merge automatically from debian
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: still out with MoM?
<nxvl> heh
<tbielawa> LucidFox: and shows us what needs done, current versions, etc
<tbielawa> I think that's right?
<nxvl> nevermind, found the source
<RoAkSoAx> well i'm out
<RoAkSoAx> bye all
<RoAkSoAx> chau nxvl  :P
<tbielawa> bye
<RoAkSoAx> byt tbielawa
<nxvl> k
<nxvl> night all!
<nxvl> see you in 3 days!
<tbielawa> byee
<siretart> nxvl: I generally agree with your observation. However I miss a concrete proposal how to fix this.
<siretart> nxvl: in order to make it fair the archive would have to check if the package references/closes a bug with a debdiff attached. Or oven better, don't accept uploads but signed debdiffs only.
<siretart> following your mail, at least
<dholbach> siretart: I think we should discuss this on ubuntu-devel - maybe merging mom and dad would help with that, it's a process we all should follow
<siretart> dholbach: I agree that this is not the right place for discussing this. How about in a bof Prague?
<siretart> in Prague, that is
<dholbach> siretart: sounds good, but I think it wouldn't hurt to discuss on -devel too (so the people who don't participate in UDS are aware of the discussion and can weigh in too)
<tbielawa> hmmmmm.... the dpatch manpage
<tbielawa> I think I get it :)
<tbielawa> took a little while though.
<tbielawa> I like this dpatch-edit-patch command, it's lifty
<RAOF> There's a similar one for cdbs
<tbielawa> RAOF: I did alot of policy review today @ work on the rules file
<tbielawa> setting the patching build targets makes alot more sense now than when I looked at it a few days ago
<tbielawa> I don't know what this does yet though: dpatch cat-all >patch-stamp
<RAOF> tbielawa: I believe that lists all the patches that have been applied, and writes them to the patch-stamp file.
<tbielawa> lol
<RAOF> tbielawa: /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make will remove the neccesity of calling that manually, though.
<tbielawa> a short search told me that is meta information about the patches, author, etc
<tbielawa> o'rly
<RAOF> Ya, rly.
<tbielawa> wow
<tbielawa> I like that command.
<RAOF> Not so much a command as a bunch of rules that you include.
<tbielawa> Yes, that's correct
<RAOF> So the full line is 'include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make'.  You can now depend on a patch: target and an unpatch: target, both of which do what you think they do :)
<tbielawa> :)
<tbielawa> this looks like simpler than aplying dpatch by hand
<tbielawa> it's like they make this linux thing easier and easier every day
<RAOF> Sadly it doesn't (yet) have debhelper 7 mojo.
<tbielawa> RAOF: what would happen if it did?
<RAOF> Unicorns.
 * tbielawa gasps
<RAOF> Well, no.  What would happen is that a sample rules file would be %: dh $@
<tbielawa> 0_0
<tbielawa> I don't even understand what that means. but there's one line, so it must be magic
<RAOF> Well, 2 lines.  And you need the make shebang at the top, and the include directive.
<tbielawa> sounds fantastic!
<tbielawa> with dpatch.make and dpatch-edit-patch -- this feels too easy... like it's not going to work *anticipating the results*
<proppy> hi
<mathiaz> Which package version is considered higher by dpkg: 2.0.6-1.1ubuntu1 or 2.0.6-1ubuntu1 ?
<joaopinto> mathiaz, dpkg --compare-versions
<mathiaz> hm.. right - however apt thinks differently
<mathiaz> I've got 2.0.6-1.1ubuntu1 in my local apt repository and 2.0.6-1ubuntu1 installed in my vms. apt-get dist-upgrade thinks nothing should be upgraded
<\sh> mathiaz: apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade ? I wonder if apt catched the change
<mathiaz> \sh: yeah - I've apt-get updated a couple of time. It picks up another package from my local repository.
<\sh> mathiaz: and the packages.* files are knowing about the new version, too? ... could be that the package is not properly in the packages file of your local repos
<geser> mathiaz: does "apt-cache policy <pkgname>" list both versions?
<\sh> or the package is set on hold
<mathiaz> \sh: yes - the new vsftpd package is in Packages.gz
<mathiaz> geser: apt-cache policy only shows the package from the archive
<dholbach> mathiaz: you could ping mvo about it, he'd know
<mathiaz> however the new vsftpd package is listed in /var/lib/apt/lists/localrepo.Packages
<mathiaz> dholbach: I guess that's the next step ;)
<dholbach> :)
<sebner> dholbach: have you uploaded my linkchecker merge about an hour ago?
<dholbach> sebner: yes
<sebner> dholbach: grmpf. haven't you seen that I'm waiting until we can sync it. also FTBFS now :\
<dholbach> sebner: I wasn't sure if "we can sync it" meant some time in the future
<sebner> damn intrepid upgrade ^^
<sebner> dholbach: grmpf. haven't you seen that I'm waiting until we can sync it. also FTBFS now :\
<dholbach> sebner: I wasn't sure if "we can sync it" meant some time in the future
<sebner> dholbach: yes in future. therefore I assigned the bug to me ;)
<dholbach> sebner: it looks like some problem with python / python-central - at the time I test-built it, it built nicely
<sebner> dholbach: /here too. nvm. Haven't got time for it now. Final exams are starting tomorrow ^^
<dholbach> doko: do you have an idea what happens here:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14486647/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.linkchecker_4.9-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz  ?
<Riddell> jdong, TheMuso: motu-sru approval needed on bug 175536
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 175536 in audacious "[Hardy, patch] audacious does not use pulseaudio by default" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175536
<Riddell> also bug 228534
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 228534 in fakechroot "Does not wrap *at() functions which makes fakechroot fail badly with Hardy" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/228534
<willwill> does universe accept package from non-motu? I will make a font package for my loco team and wants to see it in universe.
<geser> sure, see REVU
<geser> !REVU
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<willwill> thank you
<geser> if it passes REVU it will be upload to the Ubuntu archive
<mok0> willwill: but be prepared for several rounds of required changes
<willwill> mok0, already, ppa make me tired
<sebner> !packaging willwill
<ubottu> sebner: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<sebner> -.-
<mok0> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<willwill> Maybe next month, I need to create a poll what fonts should be included first.
<mok0> sebner, get back to studying for your exam
<sebner> mok0: Ubuntu is just too adictive ^^
<mok0> sebner: you can get high after the exam :-)
<sebner> mok0: Yeah I know. I will shutdown my laptop soon :) And I upgraded to intrepid. If it's not starting it's also good ^^
<mok0> sebner: that's brave :)
<sebner> mok0: hmm. did the same with hardy ^^. but I don't installed the b0rken libxfonts package
<mok0> sebner: I will wait with the upgrade until I know it works ;-)
<sebner> mok0: well, if you ignore the broken packages it is already working ^^
<Riddell> siretart: what was non free about ffmpeg?
<Riddell> siretart: libavdevice52 main or universe?
<siretart> Riddell: ffmpeg is 100% GPL and therefore free
<siretart> Riddell: and since we nowadays have packages from universe on the live cds, I'm curious to learn what effect this has on the policy what is acceptable for main and what for universe
<Riddell> siretart: if it's all free why the need to rename to ffmpeg-free?
<siretart> from the code side: libavdevice is a library where code previously in other parts of ffmpeg have been moved to.
<siretart> time will show what applications will link against libavdevice in future
<siretart> Riddell: the naming is a bit unfortunate. I plan to upload a ffmpeg-risky package to multiverse soon, which does not have patented encoders stripped
<Riddell> universe on live CDs?  you mean xubuntu?
<siretart> yes, or like medibuntu, or whatnot
<Riddell> there's no change to what can go on CDs.  main only for supported distros and nothing with problematic patents
<siretart> well, libmad0 is in main, and is also affected by patents.
<Riddell> yes, always has been
<Riddell> and has always been banned from being on CDs
<Riddell> no change there
<siretart> the same applies for ffmpeg
<emgent> heya
<geser> soren: Hi, do you see a reason to not sync libreadonly-xs-perl from Debian?
<siretart> Riddell: regarding ffmpeg, what's the plan with kubuntu? will intrepid ship kde3 in main?
<Riddell> siretart: as little as possible
<siretart> Riddell: because that would mean that we can demote xine-lib, and with that ffmpeg
<Riddell> that would be dependant on the phonon gstreamer plugin being packaged and working as well as xine
<Riddell> but it's certainly something to look into
<siretart> yupp
<Riddell> siretart: how does gstreamer match these days for e.g. dvd menus, w32codecs?
<siretart> Riddell: I didn't notice improvements for dvd menus. for w32codecs, well, there is a plugin package, and I had the impression that it worked on i386 only
<siretart> the nice thing about gstreamer is that we can have and build a functional core on the CD, and offer users to download dvd support as add-on later. This is IMO the best we can offer anyway
<soren> geser: No, I don't think so. I'm not sure why it doesn't show up on MoM. :/
<siretart> since it seems that canonical is not willing to ship mpeg2 decoders and libdvdcss on the livecd anyways
<geser> soren: it's listed on http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-manual.html
<soren> geser: Oh, ok.
<soren> geser: Without actually looking at the packages, I can't think of any reason why we shouldn't be able to sync them
<soren> geser: them == libreadonly-{xs-,}-perl
<geser> soren: ok, I'll check the other too and file sync requests for both. Thanks.
<soren> geser: Oh, thank *you*
<\sh> ./VolumeButton.cs(55,17): warning CS0612: `Gtk.Tooltips' is obsolete gnarf
<sebner> bye folks.
<\sh> do we have a mono gtk pro here? ;)
<mok0> yuccc, mono
<ScottK> Hello askand.
<askand> ï»¿ScottK: ah hello again!
<ScottK> Anyone who's able: askand has produced a fix for bug 89936 and would like to learn how to integrate his change into an updated package.  Would someone have time to help him with that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 89936 in gmail-notify "Gmail notifier crashes when new e-mail is found and the user are supposed to be alerted about it" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89936
<ScottK> askand: I'm busy with $WORK right now, so all I can do is counsel patience.
<askand> ï»¿ScottK:  Sure, Ill wait
<persia> askand: I'm also occupied, but there's some docs on generating a debdiff and requesting sponsorship in the section on Preparing New Revisions in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing.  If something is confusing, asking specific questions here often elicits a faster response.
<askand> ï»¿ persia: thanks
<mok0> askand: I can help
<mok0> askand: do you know how to make a source package?
<askand> ï»¿mok0:  please do :) nah..not reallyy experimented a bit with it
<mok0> askand: ... but you got the source package of gmail-notify... ?
<ScottK> mok0: AFAIK this is his first attempt.  He was in #ubuntu-bugs looking for how to get his fix uploaded.
<askand> ï»¿ mok0: yes I have
<mok0> askand: ok, so it goes like this: 1) get source package. 2) fix fix fix 3) update changelog (important!!)
<mok0> askand: 4) cd to dir that contains debian/ (5) debuild -S -sa
<askand> ï»¿mok0: ok..the fix fix fix part? Should I just replace the file with a bug in with a file witout the bug?
<mok0> askand: yes, the "fix fix fix" means: edit
<mok0> askand: when you run "debuild -S -sa" you will get new .diff.gz and .dsc  files
<mok0> askand: in the directory above topdir ( topdir== the one that contains debian/)
<askand> The last changelog entry was: gmail-notify (1.6.1-3ubuntu2) gutsy; urgency=low should mine be gmail-notify (1.6.1-3ubuntu3) hardy; urgency=medium?
<mok0> askand: the you simply "debdiff old.dsc new.dsc"
<mok0> askand: if it's a fix to hardy, it should be hardy-proposed
<mok0> askand: but, yes, you increment the last number (after ubuntu)
<slytherin> mok0: you are talking too fast
<askand> yea thanks god for scrollbuttons ;-)
<mok0> slytherin: ah. That's the first time anyone has accused me of that :-)
<askand> Should I somewhere in the changelog put wat bug is solved with this update?
<mok0> askand: yes, in the form (LP:  #nnnn)
<mok0> askand: (LP: #89936) actually
<mok0> askand: make a good description of what you have done in changelog/
<geser> mok0, askand: if it's a SRU the version should be 1.6.1-3ubuntu2.1 and the bug should be fixed in intrepid first (1.6.1-3ubuntu3)
<slytherin> is anyone able to do grab-merge.sh blueproximity? The script simply exits for me.
<mok0> askand: yeah geser is right, forgot about that...
<geser> slytherin: MoM or DaD?
<\sh> slytherin: use mom and not dad ;)
<mok0> slytherin: works for me
<askand> ï»¿mok0: hmm..that makes it gmail-notify (1.6.1-3ubuntu3) intrepid ?
<mok0> askand: if it's a bug in hardy that you want to fix, it should be ï»¿gmail-notify (1.6.1-3ubuntu2.1) hardy-proposed
<slytherin> geser: the script was taken from MoM
<askand> ï»¿mok0:  http://pastebin.com/m4ba2b5bb
<slytherin> Oh. DaD says there is a merge for blueproximity, where as MoM doesn't. And I was trying to use MoM script
<mok0> askand: also state what files you changed.
<\sh> slytherin: manual merge eventually?
<askand> oh right
<mok0> askand: and wrap the line in the entry so no line is longer than the "--" lines
<\sh> slytherin: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-manual.html <- there it hides
<\sh> slytherin: problem here is: no base debian version to check against
<askand> ï»¿mok0: http://pastebin.com/m45ccd3fe
<\sh> slytherin: therefore mom just don't give any result...and thinking about the old DaD problems, dad will break the merge completly...
<mok0> slytherin: take care, afair there is some evil rm statements at the start of that script
<slytherin> \sh: yes, you are right, the package in hardy was Ubuntu-only package. SO there is no base debian version
<mok0> askand: good, but put the path (relative to topdir) in front of langs.xml
<\sh> slytherin: actually it's good to just dget the debian version and the old version in hardy...and do a manual merge...and hopefully sync it ;)
<mok0> askand: ... and you didn't change the word "meddelande" you removed it ;-)
<askand> ï»¿mok0: hm..im not sure what you mean with relative to topdir? It is currently in the topdir? Or do you mean when it is installed?
<mok0> askand: you also removed "%(n)" ...
<slytherin> \sh: hmm, I will try. But as per my experience I haven't found very friendly changelog entries in Debian changelogs. So it usually hard (for me) to know what exact changes were made.
<mok0> askand: "topdir" is the one that contains debian/
<askand> ï»¿mok0: yea langs.xml is in there
<mok0> askand: ah, then you put debian/langs.xml
<\sh> slytherin: read the ubuntu changelog...as it is a 0ubuntu version, mostly it was just pushed into ubuntu as new version...so normally debian was too late with a new version, or we have someting specific inside..which can be merged easily
<askand> ï»¿mok0: nono its in the topdir I mean :)
<mok0> askand:  okok :.-)
<mok0> hehe
<slytherin> \sh: will try
<mok0> askand: you are ready to run "debuild -S -sa"
<askand> ï»¿mok0:  in the topdir?
<mok0> yes
<mok0> askand: it will ask you to sign with your gpg signature. If you don't have one (get one :-) ) ... you can add "-uc -us" to debuild
 * mok0 wonders why gmail-notify crashes on the word "meddelande"...
<askand> ï»¿***mok0  python does not like the (n) thing
<mok0> askand: ok
<mok0> askand: if you're interested in localization work, check out the "Translations" tab on Launchpad. There's a nifty system there called "Rosetta" where you can help with translations in a convenient web interface
<askand> ï»¿ mok0: will check that later, im trying to get a gpgsignature..I had onw before a formatted my computer..
<mok0> askand: you don't need the signature to generate the debdiff, so you can wait
<mok0> askand: just use "debuild -S -sa -uc -us"
<mok0> (-uc and -us means: do not sign .changes and .dsc files)
<mok0> askand: (make sure you save a backup of your next signature. It is a big pain + a security risc to loose your private key)
<askand> ï»¿mok0:  hm it gives me errors.. http://pastebin.com/m388776f3
<mok0> askand: hmm, it doesn't like your swedish characters. You can safely delete those lines, though, because you actually need to document not WHAT you did but WHY you did it
<askand> ï»¿mok0:  ok I see
<mok0> askand: the person looking over your debdiff can easily see WHAT has changed, but not WHY (unless you put it in the changelog)
<mok0> askand: there is a fairly sophisticated parser for the changelog file, I guess it doesn't like non-ascii characters...
<mok0> askand: you also need to "apt-get install cdbs"
<james_w> hi askand
<askand> ï»¿mok0: now it worked!
<askand> ï»¿james_w:  hi
<mok0> askand: cool!
<james_w> askand: Swedish characters should be fine, are you using a UTF-8 locale?
<mok0> now you should have your new .dsc file
<askand> ï»¿mok0:  ive got .build, .changes, .dsc and .diff.gz
<askand> ï»¿ james_w: yes I am
<james_w> askand: strange then
<mok0> askand: so, you do "debdiff old.dsc new.dsc"
<mok0> where "old" and "new" are gmail- .... etc
<mok0> james_w: perhaps it is the xml tags it doesn't like??
<james_w> mok0: perhaps, askand, what does "okÃ¤nd rad" mean?
<mok0> unknow line
<mok0> unknown
<james_w> ah, thanks
<askand> ï»¿mok0: Ok now I have run debdiff
<mok0> askand: cool! Attach it to the bug
<askand> ï»¿ mok0:  attach what? :P
<mok0> askand: the output of debdiff
<askand> ï»¿ james_w: it accepts my swedish letters now by the way, must have been something else that was wrong
<mok0> askand: hang on
<james_w> askand: cool, glad it works.
<mok0> debdiff ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿gmail-notify_1.6.1-3ubuntu2.dsc gmail-notify_1.6.1-3ubuntu2.1.dsc > ï»¿ï»¿gmail-notify_1.6.1-3ubuntu2.1.debdiff
<mok0> askand: the convention is to name your debdiff with the same root name as the new .dsc file
<mok0> askand: you can also check with "lsdiff ï»¿gmail-notify_1.6.1-3ubuntu2.1.debdiff"
<mok0> askand: ... which will give you a list of the files that have changes
<askand> ï»¿ mok0: you have ï»¿gmail-notify_1.6.1-3ubuntu2.1.dsc but I have ï»¿gmail-notify_1.6.1-3ubuntu3.dsc
<askand> as the new version?
<mok0> askand: ah, the ubuntu3 comes from the changelog file
<mok0> askand: change it to -3ubuntu2.1
<askand> ï»¿mok0:  ok then I start over?
<mok0> askand: then you run debuild -S -sa -uc -us again
<mok0> askand: the 2.1 means that it is bug-fix #1 to -3ubuntu2
<mok0> askand: ... and that it is a post-release fix to hardy
<mok0> askand: also known as SRU (stable release update)
<askand> should I mark it as a patch when I attach it?
<mok0> askand: yes
<askand> ï»¿mok0: ok done! :)
<mok0> askand: then, finally, you subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<mok0> askand: ... from the pink menu in LP
<askand>  mok0: okok done
<mok0> askand: cool. Thanks for your work!
<askand> ï»¿mok0: thanks for helping out! :)
<mok0> askand: np! Now you're a bug fixing expert :-)
<mok0> askand: now go fix more bugs :-)
<mok0> askand: uploaded. I had to make changes in the changelog file; the changelog parser did not like the <tab> characters at the beginning of each line.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian!1!
<bddebian> Heya geser
<tbielawa> allo all
<Iulian> Hello bddebian.
<bddebian> Hello tbielawa, Iulian
<slomo_> siretart: ffmpeg seems to be a bit unhappy on powerpc... see the gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg/experimental build log. i can't check what goes wrong exactly now but it's probably a segfault somewhere in ffmpeg code that happens only on ppc ;)
<siretart> slomo_: I trust that you manage to create a patch based on a nice backtrace. Hint: ffmpeg-dbg might be useful for that
<slomo_> siretart: busy atm :)
<siretart> slomo_: same here. plus: no ppc hardware
<nicolasvw> While looking for the best practice for upgrading a package with a new upstream version (once the package is ready for sponsorship) and I find two possibilities: linking revu upload to LP or attaching an interdiff. What's the recommended way to go?
<jdong> nicolasvw: interdiff or full .diff.gz
<nicolasvw> thankx jdong
<dx9s_work> where can I see all changes to suphp between hardy and gutsy
<dx9s_work> I think I found a  major bug
<geser> in the changelog
<geser> or you compare both source packages
<dx9s_work> what WHATEVER reason.. in 7.10 .. suphp only require the parent directory to be own by the same person that the script is running as.. not in hardy .. all parent directories have to be owned by the same person (unless it hits a directory owned by root)
<dx9s_work> some really irratating bug
<dx9s_work> really pissing me off
<dx9s_work> and it is impossible to have "all parent directories" own by the same person in a multi-user website using suphp... makes it completley useless!!!!!!!!!!!
<dx9s_work> dann
<dx9s_work> have to reverse "debian/patches/10_CVE-2008-1614.dpatch"
<dx9s_work> they didn't completely regession test it
<dx9s_work> POS!
<dx9s_work> who maintains suphp?
<YokoZar> Hi, I've had an SRU pending for like 2 weeks now, and it seems to work fine but no one's pushed it out yet...
<YokoZar> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/224042
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224042 in wine "Wine 64 bit does not depend on lib32nss-mdns package; dns lookups broken" [Medium,Confirmed]
<jdong> YokoZar: you need one more tester to say it's working
<jdong> YokoZar: afterwards, mark verification-done and remove verification-needed
<mok0> siretart: ping
<dx9s_work> how can I downgrade to older version of suphp! ?
<dx9s_work> from 0.6.2-2ubuntu1 to 0.6.2-2
<geser> fetch the deb and install it with e.g. gdebi
<dx9s_work> perhaps it would be easier to go deb-src?
<dx9s_work> that way I can complete access to the src code
<dx9s_work> not as verse on building deb's from src (recent ubuntu/deb convert) .. know how to make .tgz from src for slackware no problem.. seeing apt-get source and apt-get build-deb
<siretart> mok0: please don't ping contentlessly
<mok0> siretart: sorry. I'd like to ask to get motu powers on revu
<dx9s_work> geser, perhaps you can point me at a howto on the process to download the actual source code used by the maintainers to produce the .deb files so I can manually install my own .deb file (and hopefully fix the serious bug in suphp)
<siretart> mok0: sure. what's your revu login?
<mok0> siretart: mok@bioxray.au.dk
<siretart> and your lp id?
<mok0> siretart: mok0
<geser> dx9s_work: if you have the deb-src lines in /etc/apt/sources.list, simply apt-get source <pkgname>
<siretart> Altering mok@bioxray.au.dk to level reviewer
<dx9s_work> geser, had to install dpkg-dev
<mok0> siretart: thanks!
<dx9s_work> geser, so where is the build scripts (aka options passed to configure and so forth and the process for building the .deb .. I know some makefiles have a make option for .deb files)
<geser> dx9s_work: debian/rules inside the unpacked source dir
<dx9s_work> ah
<dx9s_work> okay removed the latest (recent as of last month) patch ... reading up on the process to build and install into the REAL root (or fake root) .. remember I am NEW to .deb's from the maintainer/builder side
<dx9s_work> okay have a deb.. now I need to install using dpkg I think it is
<dx9s_work> done
<dx9s_work> gonna see if removing the patch fixed my problem
<mok0> I uploaded torque_2.1.8+dfsg-0ubuntu2 for intrepid earlier today, but it's vanished into blue air. I've not gotten any reject mails, nor can I find it in the build queue. What gives?
<geser> mok0: I'm also missing some uploads from today
<mok0> geser: I don't know if I should say that's comforting :-)
<dx9s_work> CRAP!
<dx9s_work> no change.. need to compare a working gutsy machine and this hardy machine closer
<geser> mok0: I'm trying to get an answer in #launchpad
<mok0> geser: great, perhaps I should join you there...
<dx9s_work> it was something that broke (usable but for ONE person... which completely blows the reason for have suphp in the first place) between "suphp (0.6.2-1ubuntu1) "  and later currently 0.6.2-2ubuntu1 (the maintainer has 0.6.3 out.. I might just install manually and screw the the .debs)
<mok0> dx9s_work: it may give you some clues on how to fix the debs later
<dx9s_work> mok0, just a pain-in-the-arse.. I don't need to be fixed THIS problem.. I have another work-stoppage thing that I am trying to fix and this is a show stopper (hardy's suphp multi-user support.. or lack of it)
<mok0> dx9s_work: I know the frustration of cascading problems
<mok0> dx9s_work: ... but please, don't take it out on us ;-)
<dx9s_work> is there a way to "apt-get source xxxxxx-some-older-version" ... even trying to get "apt-get source libapache2-mod-suphp_0.6.2-2ubuntu1" (which is the correct name /version) doesn't work
<dx9s_work> oh it's not anyONES fault.. just a pain when you (me in this case) don't know the source process very well w/ deb's
<dx9s_work> if it was slackware.. I'd have it done by now
<RainCT> dx9s_work: you can get older version from http://packages.ubuntu.com, if they are still on some repo
<RainCT> (there's a link the the .dsc file at the left of the info pages. to download the source do:  dget <url to the dsc file>; dpkg-source -x *dsc)
<geser> LP has also older versions
<dx9s_work> I want to get really good at this .deb stuff so you'll have to bare w/ me
<mok0> dx9s_work: work out what the problem is first, then come here and get help updating  the package
<mok0> dx9s_work: ... and open a bug on LP
<mok0> dx9s_work: that will help the devs keep track of the progress
<geser> dx9s_work: go to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/suphp, select the version you want, and dget the .dsc file (dget is in devscripts)
<mok0> geser: not much action on #launchpad :-/
<geser> mok0: I know :(
<mok0> geser, I see some discussion on -devel about shh keys. Could that have to do with the upload problem+
<mok0> s/+/?/
<geser> mok0: I doubt it, I can't imagine how the ssh-key issue might affect the gpg signatures from uploads
<cbx33> hey guys
<cbx33> anyone here use NX?
<dx9s_work> okay hopefully installed 0.6.2-1ubuntu1 (from gutsy days into hardy)
<jdong> cbx33: used to, haven't bothered to set it up recently.
<jdong> (100mbit internet --> not much care for NX efficiency)
<cbx33> jdong: was wondering how to regen the key it comes with
<jdong> cbx33: I doubt it's vulnerable.
<dx9s_work> yippie
<dx9s_work> that fixed it!
<dx9s_work> some bug between what gutsy has in 0.6.2-1ubuntu1 and later
<cbx33> jdong:
<dx9s_work> (what hardy has)
<cbx33> well i just ran ssh-vulnkey
<cbx33> and it came back wit hthis
<cbx33> COMPROMISED: 1024 xx:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX
<cbx33> no-port-forwarding,no-agent-forwarding,command="/usr/NX/bin/nxnode"
<cbx33> where xx is the fingerprint
<dx9s_work> mok0 and geser ... I'll have to spend time and research what/where the problem is later.. but rolling back to older source from gutsy days fixed it
<cbx33> jdong: what ya think?
<mok0> dx9s_work: fine, but please take a minute or two to open the bug on LP
<dx9s_work> mok0, it says ( https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/suphp/0.6.2-1ubuntu1 ) ... removal requested on 2007-11-11 ... is there a way to determine WHO requested it / approved it?
<dx9s_work> as the superseded version must have been tested (possibly poorly) by somebody and I need to inform that person how to test it and future releases for this bug
 * mok0 looks
<jdong> cbx33: I frankly woulnd't care
<jdong> cbx33: the nx key is public anyway
<jdong> cbx33: it allows all users with an nx pubkey to log in to nx@your_host
<jdong> cbx33: but user nx only spawns NX shells that allow a further login.
<james_w> dx9s_work: in this case it means automatically, as a new version was uploaded
<ScottK> dx9s_work: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/suphp/ - The only change appears to have been security related.
<jdong> cbx33: i am not a crypto expert but I don't think a compromise of the nx user login is any worse than what nx does by default...
<mok0> dx9s_work: It looks like 0.6.2-1ubuntu1 was superseded by a debian sync
<dx9s_work> james_w, ScottK, problem is it causes it to be highly un-usable... and all files / directories must be own by one person... might as well just use suexec instead for the entire site over suphp .. older 0.6.2-1ubuntu1 days allw for multiple users (assuming the immediate parent directory is owned by the same person) ...  big feature difference.. I assume it was a bug due to how it was tested before publishing
<ScottK> dx9s_work: I think your assuming I care more than I do.  You asked a question.  I answered it.  Sorry I can't help you more.
<dx9s_work> np thanks ScottK
<james_w> dx9s_work: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/suphp/0.6.2-2 looks like the upload that probably added the change
<james_w> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/suphp/0.6.2-2 shows it better
<mok0> ... but the current hardy version is  0.6.2-2ubuntu1
<dx9s_work> I think the 10_CVE-2008-1614 in the hardy version might solve one minor (really minor) security problem in place of a huge feature drop
<mok0> dx9s_work: hasn't that been addressed by https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/suphp/0.6.2-2ubuntu1
<dx9s_work> I dunno.. I DL'ed the source for 0.6.2-2ubuntu1 and remove the patching for 10_CVE-2008-1614 .. and that didn't solve it ... it could also be the AddType change from x-http-php to application/x-http-php
 * dx9s_work looks now at the url
<james_w> dx9s_work: that patch fixes a race condition, it shouldn't normall change anything that isn't racy.
<dx9s_work> I really don't know what/where .. the issue is..
<dx9s_work> but if the fact that php code one run under hardy's version unless the parent directory and the parent's parent directory and the parents parents parents directory are ALL owned by the same person ... (until it hits a directory that root owns)
<dx9s_work> one run=won't run
<james_w> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=416424 is the bug fixed there.
<ubottu> Debian bug 416424 in libapache-mod-suphp "SuPHP security issue: using AddHandler instead of AddType" [Critical,Closed]
 * dx9s_work reads
<dx9s_work> hmmm..
 * dx9s_work quotes "
<dx9s_work> Indeed, it's not a bug in suPHP, but it's a bug in the libapache2-mod-suphp
<dx9s_work> package because it contains the Apache configuration file and ships with an
<dx9s_work> insecure configuration.
 * dx9s_work "
<dx9s_work> will look at that closer
<dx9s_work> set it up using the alternate method (addtype versus addhandler) .. and moved back to 0.6.2-2ubuntu1 .. and same problem with parent and grandparent directory ownership
<dx9s_work> so no
<dx9s_work> the answer is that issue fixed something but created another problem
<cbx33> ko jdong
<dx9s_work> gonna hafta roll back to 0.6.2-1ubuntu1 .. suphp in hardy is broken
<dx9s_work> well rolled back to 0.6.2-1ubuntu1 and used sethandler+filesmatch (workaround) method. that should be paranoid enough and still work for many people on the same site (until I get time to look at 0.6.3 reference code and test it out)
<geser> mok0: I just got the accepted mails for my uploads. So whatever was broken got fixed.
<mok0> geser: me too
<mok0> What software do they use at BTS to generate those little box & arrow diagrams?
<norsetto> mok0: you mean the useless version graph?
<mok0> norsetto: yes :-)
<norsetto> mok0: knowing debian its some perl script ....
<mok0> norsetto: yeechh
<mok0> norsetto: of course I could probably find the source code somewhere and find out...
<norsetto> mok0: try searching for perl and graph
<andrew___> mok0: that sort of thing is normally done with Graphviz (I don't about this particular case though)
<mok0> andrew___: thx I will check that out!
<norsetto> ScottK: you may want to check bug 229776
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229776 in falcon "falconpl fails to install on hardy" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229776
<ScottK> norsetto: I have it on my list to look at.
<norsetto> ScottK: ok
<ScottK> I'm subscribed to the package bugs via pythonistas.
 * norsetto wonders what is the diff between a pythonero and a phytonista
<ScottK> For the teams, one is for Main packages and the other for Universe.
<ScottK> I've no idea of the exact reference from which the team names came from though.
<ScottK> mok0: Why did you add a Linda over-ride to Torque?  It's been removed from the archive.
<LaserJock> ScottK: ping?
<ScottK> Pong
<ScottK> LaserJock: ^^^
<LaserJock> ScottK: you know anything about the qt4 backports?
<ScottK> I know how they are being done.  I haven't been invovled directly in the doing.
<LaserJock> hmm, k. Does Riddell do them?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> He figured a way to build them on a PPA and then copy them to backports so they don't have to get in line behind Intrepid builds.
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> it seems the QT4 4.4 packages kill at least lyx
<LaserJock> looking into stellarium as well, not sure about it
<ScottK> Everyone knows backports are crack ;-)
<ScottK> K.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> it's just a bit odd since it's a library backport
<ScottK> It's tied to and needed for the whole KDE4 4.0.4 backport.
<LaserJock> i.e. you install one thing from -backports and it kills other things from the stable repo
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure out the best course of actions
 * ScottK tends to enable backports, install the one thing he wants, and turn them back off again.
<ScottK> Sure.
<ScottK> I'd say file bugs and whine at Riddell for now.
<LaserJock> apparently there is a new version of Lyx that will work with QT4 4.4
<LaserJock> I wonder if I should try to push that into Intrepid and backport it
<ScottK> I think that'd be excellent.
<Jazzva> norsetto: I'm almost done with gecko-mediaplayer. I noticed that there is src/nsIScriptableGeckoMediaPlayer.h which is generated in build process, but not removed in clean process. Should I remove it in clean rule?
<LaserJock> ScottK: sweet, apparently this QT4 4.4 issue has been fixed by Debian
<norsetto> jazzva: strange, let me check
<Jazzva> Ok
<ScottK> Kewl.
<ScottK> Sounds like some core-dev should do a merge ....
<ScottK> See you all later.
<norsetto> l8r
<norsetto> Jazzva: yes, add it to the clean target
<Jazzva> Ok...
<LaserJock> jdstrand: ping
<Jazzva> norsetto: Uploaded diff.gz. Bug 229335
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229335 in gecko-mediaplayer "Please update gecko-mediaplayer to 0.6.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229335
<norsetto> jazzva: thx
<Jazzva> np :)
<norsetto> jazzva: and pls. subscribe me :-)
<Jazzva> Ok
<Jazzva> done
<Jazzva> :)
<norsetto> g'night all
<ScottK> LaserJock: The whole point of merging MoM/DaD to get comments there is so that the place you go look to see if a merge needs doing also has some informal status information.  Everyone file a bug is way overkill.
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, considering that contributors need to do it anyway I don't think it's all that much of a stretch
<LaserJock> but perhaps MoM+comments is the way to go when that's done
<ScottK> But we've already got a plan for one stop shopping.
<ScottK> That should be be very soon I think.
<LaserJock> anyway, that wasn't really the point
<LaserJock> my point is that we need everybody to check the canonical  location
<LaserJock> in this case, if the developer had checked  for a merge bug it the problem would have been avoided
<ScottK> If you insist on a centralized model that's true.
<ScottK> Agreed.  And we don't need a new rule for that.
<LaserJock> I was trying to encourage MOTUs and contributors to check before doing the work
<ScottK> Which is good.  Just don't make me file work tracking bugs.
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> you need to grab your merges in some way that everybody's going to see
<LaserJock> we used to do that via bugs
<LaserJock> but MoM is probably better
<ScottK> I think we used to do it via ask the person that touched it last if that wasn't you, but whatever.
<LaserJock> I just think thats stupid, sorry :-)
 * ScottK goes outside to enjoy sunshine with his daughter ....
<LaserJock> I'm sitting here right now waiting for a pong on a merge
<ScottK> Well so work on something else.  I think filing pointless bugs is stupid.
<LaserJock> I could have done it a while ago and moved on to the real work I wanted to do, but instead I'm gonna have to wait a day just to get an OK to do a merge
<crimsun> LaserJock: for a Universe source package?
<LaserJock> I think people should rather "grab" the ones they do want to do and let everybody else get on with it
<LaserJock> crimsun: main
<crimsun> LaserJock: I don't see why you would wait unless it's a fairly critical source package.
<crimsun> and even then, you're in main - people can just deal.
<LaserJock> crimsun: because that's what ScottK says people should do :-)
<mok0> Hmm, no openssh update for Lenny?
<LaserJock> and I don't want to get yelled at :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we could always just list all the merges on a wiki page & lock them that way...
<crimsun> hey, that sounds like a brilliant idea1
<crimsun> oh wait...
<ajmitch> crimsun: but wasn't it fun to edit?
<crimsun> hehe
<LaserJock> ajmitch: we already have tools, I'm sure we can do better than a wiki page
<LaserJock> although wiki pages are better than nothing, IMO
<ajmitch> LaserJock: crimsun knows that pain that I'm talking about :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I remember
<ajmitch> we moved on to having bugs filed, which were scraped for sistpoty's merge tool
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I thought that was a decent idea, though it seemed a bit fragile
<LaserJock> I think a python-launchpad-bugs run version would work better
<LaserJock> but MoM comments would be much better methinks
<ajmitch> it was fragile in a sense, but it worked
<LaserJock> did we get down to a 0 merge list?
<ajmitch> we got close
<ajmitch> some packages would just fail due to other changes to the system
<ajmitch> old, crufty stuff usually
<ajmitch> though that would happen far more often with the rcbugs list (which won't be updated anytime soon due to recent debian security changes)
<LaserJock> bah
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-14
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'd prefer people wait, but there's certainly no rule requiring it.  You playing martyr doesn't change that.
<LaserJock> ScottK: "martyr"? I'm simply saying that the most common case is "go for it" so people should rather "lock" the ones they want rather than slowing everybody else up
<ScottK> OK.  I think it's a question of balance and not hard and fast rules.
<pochu> you could also look if the last uploader did a trivial upload (e.g. "no changes rebuild for foo->bar transition") or he's been maintain the package for a long time
<ScottK> That'd be my approach.  Go grab dkim-milter as an example and tell me who you think is probably the one to merge it.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but for people who don't know a lot of history it's easiest to have the people who care about packages lock them
<LaserJock> rather than assume all packages are locked
<pochu> mok0: cjwatson uploaded it with urgency=critical, which I think means it will migrate to testing in 1 day (not sure though)
<YokoZar> So now that this SRU has been verified, what happens next? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/224042
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224042 in wine "Wine 64 bit does not depend on lib32nss-mdns package; dns lookups broken" [Medium,Confirmed]
<LaserJock> YokoZar: pitti will move it to -updates when he gets a chance
<LaserJock> he's usually pretty quick
<YokoZar> LaserJock: Thanks
<jdong> LaserJock: hope he's not too quick ;-)
<ScottK> pochu: It still needs to build on all supported archs first.
<ScottK> LaserJock: We'd need a way to leave persistent comments on MoM/DaD for unlocked by default to be feasible, but I can see that.
<LaserJock> ScottK: or at the beginning of each release go through and lock the ones you want
<LaserJock> not sure how many you'd have but it may be pretty easy to do
<LaserJock> I would honestly guess we wouldn't have more than say 30-40 "locked" packages out of the 800+ we've got to do
<ScottK> Except they don't show up until they need merge, so packages can reappear at any time.
<ScottK> IIRC I had about 20.   ~15 were syncs and I knew it already.  I think 2 I would have locked and there were a few I didn't care about.
<ScottK> Anyone looking at the ~15 there were syncs would have been wasting their time.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> maybe we just need a wiki page :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: behave
<LaserJock> hmm, or maybe we should set Maintainer in that case?
<ScottK> Generally with a package that's been touched in the last cycle, someone is at least marginally more aware of it's state than joe random MOTU.  We ought to take advantage of that without unneccesarily blocking people's work.
<ScottK> From the set I had sitting there when Intrepid opened, it's have been a real waste for someone else to spend time figuring out the ones I already knew were syncs, didn't need a merge.
<LaserJock> ScottK: ok, so then why wouldn't you have sync bugs filed for those?
<ScottK> LaserJock: I did about the time the repos opened, but not everyone manages to get things done so quick.
<LaserJock> I see
<LaserJock> bottom line I guess, people shouldn't just be  blindly merging/uploading
<LaserJock> as persia pointed out in his email, we should be looking at what other bugs may be fixed when merging
<LaserJock> and as you said, if somebody has been consistently merging a package it's wise to at least talk to them about it to get pointers or see if they're going to do the merge
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RAOF> Hi bddebian.  Updated your ssh keys yet (grumble).
<bddebian> Nope
<ScottK> For me SSH was just the start of it.
<ScottK> Had to redo the TLS certs for all my mail servers too.
<ScottK> Then there's the DKIM key for signing.
<ScottK> That was plenty for one day.
<RAOF> At least I only need to find all the various boxen with my ssh key on them.
<RAOF> Thinking of which...
<LaserJock> about the only things I had to do where Alioth and Savannah
<LaserJock> and Launchpad
<RAOF> I think I've got copies of my public key on a bunch of random boxes around the intertubes.  I'm not sure if they're still up, or used, or whatever.
<RAOF> Also, Alioth & LP.
<RAOF> And my home server.  cody-somerville - if you want access to the amd64 buildbox, you'll need to update your LP ssh key :)
<bddebian> Oh crap, alioth.. Grr
<RAOF> Yup.  You no longer have a public key on alioth, most likely.
<RAOF> And they're not accepting new ones for the moment, I understand.
<bddebian> Is there a wiki page or anything up just to make sure I don't forget to do something?
<ajmitch> just run around like mad & panic
 * bddebian runs around the room flailing his arms..
<RAOF> ajmitch: That's a plan with legs!
<ajmitch> http://wiki.debian.org/SSLkeys is the only wiki page I know of
<andrew___> This will either be a newbieish or very deep question: to what degree is the job of a MOTU about developing code, to what degree is it about managing code (merging/patching/etc.)?
<bddebian> Depends on your involvement
<ScottK> andrew___: Mostly the latter, but you can get as much of the former as you want.
<bddebian> I don't know anything and I used to be an MOTU :)
<andrew___> I'm trying to get a feel for which sorts of questions/suggestions go where.
<andrew___> E.g. my posts to ubuntu-devel-discuss seem to get a better reception when they're management-related, which argues more towards it being a forum for improving things that already exist.
<cheatr> andrew___: Anyone is able to develop code. You don't need to be a motu. MOTUs mainly do packageing related tasks. That is where the name comes from: Masters of the Universe. They are in charge of managing all of the packages in the universe repository.
<andrew___> (I don't mean the above as a complaint, btw - all forums have specialisms, it's just a matter of knowing where to pipe stuff to)
<bbyever> did DaD move?
<LaserJock> bbyever: it's supposed to be merged with MoM
<bbyever> ï»¿LaserJock: ah ok, cool
<Adri2000> byoteki: but it's supposed to work until the merge is actually done
<Adri2000> I don't know why it currently doesn't
<cheatr> LaserJock: Is this merge permanent?
<LaserJock> cheatr: yes
<LaserJock> we only want 1 merge tool
<Adri2000> sorry byoteki. I meant bbyever ^
<Adri2000> bbyever: I noticed the server admin of the problem, so it should work again in a few hours
<bbyever> ï»¿Adri2000: ok
<tbielawa> evening all
<Amaranth> hmm
<Amaranth> is anyone packaging moonlight?
<ajmitch> check with debian
<jdong> Amaranth: I heard it's non-DFSG because it only works at night with atmospheric restrictions
<Amaranth> I honestly have no idea how to search debbugs for ITPs
<ScottK> Amaranth: You look in the wnpp package.
<Amaranth> guess there is no ITP
<RAOF> Amaranth: Go!
<Amaranth> I was thinking about it
<RAOF> Amaranth: Hit #debian-mono.  I'm sure someone will be interested.
<Amaranth> also, if i packaged click-and-run would I get stabbed? :)
<ScottK> Amaranth: Given PPAs, gdebi, envy-ng, and the like, I think it's a detail.
<Amaranth> eh?
<jdong> Amaranth: nah, real men package an automatic debian/control dependency stripper.
<ScottK> I'm not sure we're at all opposed to people running any random crack on their systems anymore.
<ajmitch> someone should package portage then
<ScottK> Don't mind me.  I'm particularly bitter tonight.
<Amaranth> I didn't notice ;)
 * ajmitch didn't notice any change from any other day
<ScottK> Just wait until you read the MOTU ML.  Then you might.
<ajmitch> nah, I've been reading the bugsquad list this afternoon, I understand the frustration there
<ScottK> Ah.  The thread where they say "we'll mark all over your workflow bugs and we don't care what it affects because it's to difficult for us to notice they're different"?
<ajmitch> and where the wiki edit with useful info was deleted because it hadn't been agreed upon at UDS yet
<ScottK> Despite the fact that bdmurray had agreed to it.
<ScottK> Because we all know that there's no available technology to let us work together on figuring stuff out except in face to face meeting.
<ajmitch> reading that does provide some more background to your recent -motu mail
<ScottK> Yeah.  I suppose it would.
<ScottK> I guess we get to find out if asking them to think before marking on bugs is better or worse in terms of frustrating new contributors than MOTUs getting grumpy with them and giving them no sympathy.
<ajmitch> this is where we need to be able to automatically add <blink> tags with bold red text
<tbielawa> heh heh
<tbielawa> <marquee>
<dabaR> an essential part of any user interface...
<tbielawa> lol
 * LaserJock just catches up to the world, aka ubuntu-bugsquad threads
<ajmitch> fun reading?
<tritium> LaserJock: I see a lot of rejections to the -science team.  Are you disbanding it?
<LaserJock> tritium: no, just chasing away people I've never heard of or talked to
<LaserJock> people just randomly hit the join button
<LaserJock> ajmitch: "fun" isn't exactly the word for it
<tritium> LaserJock: ok :)
<tbielawa> LaserJock: dpatch.make for the win
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I can't think of a good word for it at the moment, mixture of sheer rage and dishearting sadness
<LaserJock> tbielawa: yeah!
<LaserJock> tbielawa: btw, did you notice you had some ubuntuwire directory in your source?
<tbielawa> whawhawha?
<tbielawa> that's poor attention to details on my end.
<tbielawa> I'll be moving from now until the weekend. I hope to have a nice cleaned up copy of bibus ready for review by saturday
<LaserJock> ok, I'll email you
<LaserJock> I ended up going to my grandfather's over the weekend and my entire day yesterday was proctoring and grading final exams
<tbielawa> eack
<ajmitch> you poor fellow
 * ScottK had a job as a programming assignments grader for an intro computer science class when he was at university.
<ScottK> Before the end of the semester I was so sick of it, I subcontracted the work to one of my apartment mates who needed the money more than I did.
<tbielawa> ScottK: resourceful!
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> no programming here
<LaserJock> just 10 pages of short-answer Chemistry
<tbielawa> I've been system administrator @ work. a fun role :)
<tbielawa> Found a potential bug in the new release of network-console
<tbielawa> SSHing into a preseeded d-i environment one is presented with a menu: 1) start the installation 2) start an expert installation 3) drop to shell
<tbielawa> at this point in the install the install is alredy going, we just want to drop to shells. dropped to a shell causes the connection to drop
<tbielawa> option 1 makes your already running installs brain explode. but the key element here is that when you choose to drop to a shell fromt he expert install menu __it works__ unlike choosing to do it directly
 * ScottK avoids the temptation to write back to a Debian ML complaining about Ubuntu not sending them a patch with the observation I'd rather they hadn't sent their openssl patch to us.
<LaserJock> haha
<tbielawa> =-o
<LaserJock> it's very unfortunate that it was because of a debian change
<rockstar> ScottK, I knew there would be complaining on that list.
<ScottK> Which one?
<ScottK> rockstar: ^^^^
<rockstar> Debian security
<ajmitch> A lot of frustrated people around
<rockstar> ajmitch, yea, understandably.  I'm quite frustrated at Debian for making a change in order to shut valgrind up.
<rockstar> I love Debian, but this stuff makes me feel quite sheepish.
<AstralJava> Like people don't need to refresh their memory on how to generate ssh keys anyway. :D
<ajmitch> the 'shutting valgrind up' bit was made so that it was easier to debug programs having issues with openssl, I believe
<ajmitch> the patch was even discussed upstream before going into debian
<ScottK> Although that discussion seemed to me that it could have easily been misread about doing that just for debugging, not for production.
<ScottK> The frustration about a patch was on a Debian Python list.
<ajmitch> most things do end up getting misread at some point
<jdong> *NOT TO DEFEND DEBIAN ON THE SSH THING*: I think OpenSSH folks are also to blame.
<jdong> they really set up a landmine in the code without documentation
<ScottK> jdong: openssh != openssl
<jdong> ScottK: sorry, yes, that's what I meant
<jdong> this is really the first time I've heard of intentionally using uninitialized buffers.... and something that anomalous IMO deserves comments
<ScottK> Agreed.  Plenty of blame to go around.
 * ScottK heads off for bed.
<tbielawa> See ya ScottK
<ajmitch> rockstar: btw, how'd you enjoy what little you saw of NZ? :)
<rockstar> ajmitch, well, I didn't see a lot.
<rockstar> I did enjoy it.  My wife would like me to take her at some point.
<ajmitch> just an overcast city & the inside of the sprint room?
<rockstar> jdong, yes, they did discuss it upstream, and I understand that value of shutting valgrind up.  I'm just concerned that often, Debian goes out on its own, sometimes causing rifts in communities.
<ajmitch> the same concerns are raised about Ubuntu
<jdong> rockstar: I agree in this case the deviation from upstream is in poor taste.
<rockstar> jdong, yea, but there's also the whole Iceweasel thing.  They've become so "elite" that often it seems to cause more problems than it helps.
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<dholbach> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> how are you?
<dholbach> just waking up, but I'm good - thanks
<dholbach> ajmitch: how's life?
<ajmitch> it's alright
<ScottK> rockstar: Given DFSG and Mozilla corp's Trademark policy, Iceweasel was inevitable.
<rockstar> ScottK, well, yes, inevitable maybe.  But it alienated a lot of people.
<ScottK> I guess I completely see Debian's side on that one.  "Here, have some free code, but you can't change it." really rubs me wrong.
<rockstar> ScottK, I think it was a case of two stubborn sets of ideals.
<ScottK> I guess I don't get that.
<ScottK> Canonical manages to have a derivative friendly Trademark policy.  I don't see why Mozilla Corp couldn't also.
<ScottK> Our OOO still says Sun on the splash screen.
<ScottK> Lots of other entities manage just fine.
<ScottK> I see it as Mozilla Corp being uniquely unfriendly.
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> geser: thanks for the perl rebuilds - I sponsored them
<dholbach> and sistpoty fixed the libxfont issue - intrepid should be more fun soon again :)
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<geser> Hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi geser
<fdoving> kees: any clue if i can disable the openssl-vulnkey check anywhere? - is it in the openssl config somewhere?
<fdoving> kees: or rather, i need to downgrade openvpn and remove openssl-blacklist in order to make openvpn work. openssl-vulnkey says my key isn't blacklisted, but magically when starting openvpn it errors out and claims openvpn-vulnkey says its blacklisted.
<slangasek> fdoving: each of the -vulnkey tools handles particular file formats; openssl-vulnkey probably doesn't parse your openvpn key file correctly to be able to detect that it's vulnerable?
<kees> fdoving: hrm, that's not good.  :P  which version do you have installed?
<proppy> oy
<emgent> morning
<whs> How to fix source: native-package-with-dash-version?
<geser> use a proper .orig.tar.gz
<Laibsch> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=gourmet
<Laibsch> if anybody cares to take a look
<Laibsch> I also have a question
<Laibsch> ï»¿Let's say version 1 of a package installs /etc/file, the name in version two is changed to /etc/file.something
<Laibsch>  /etc/file is not removed when updating the package from version 1 to 2
<Laibsch> What was I doing wrong?  This question has nothing to do with gourmet
<broonie> You need to manually handle conffile moves.
<AnAnt> Hello, can one upload packages with new features for 8.04.1 ?
<AnAnt> or is it just for bug fixes ?
<Laibsch> broonie: You are also on/in ubuntu?
<Laibsch> AnAnt: You need an SRU exception
<Laibsch> google for that
<broonie> Laibsch: Not really.
<Laibsch> broonie: can't get your hands full enough, I guess ;-)
<slytherin> Laibsch: I think you will have to handle removing old config file in prerm.
<Laibsch> I think I found a good source
<Laibsch> http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling
<broonie> Ideally if it's the same file you should be moving any configuration the user did into the new configuration file.
<Laibsch> which suggests preinst
<Laibsch> I have three packages being built from the same source.  I want to push a change in one of them.  Is it possible to exclude the others from the debuild run?
<ScottK> Laibsch: No.
<slytherin> Laibsch: don't think so
<Laibsch> OK, thanks
<broonie> If you've got a separate makefile target for each package you can invoke debian/rules directly
<broonie> but that's not the common case.
<Laibsch> not the case here
<Laibsch> :-(
<ScottK> Does the ssl-cert update just regenerate snakeoil or does it hit other certs too?
<ScottK> Oops.  Wrong channel.  Maybe someone here knows anyway ...
<Laibsch> I believe just commenting out the Package: stanza for the other packages I want to leave out works fine
<Laibsch> Rather quiet REVU day, though, isn't it?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<emgent> heya people
<emgent> tseliot: ping
<tseliot> ï»¿emgent: hi
<bddebian> Hi geser, sistpoty|work, emgent, tseliot... :)
<tseliot> ï»¿bddebian: hi ;)
<emgent> bddebian: o/
<Laney> Anyone have a merge free for the taking?
<james_w> Laney: you could take bidentd, but it's pretty boring.
<james_w> it would just be checking the Debian package builds and works and then sync it I expect.
<Laney> james_w: I'll have a look, cheers
<Laibsch> I have a strange problem where debuild tells me that there is no space left on the device (the process continues)
<Laibsch> df -h says there is plenty of space
<Laibsch> http://oss.leggewie.org/oe/deb/openembedded_0.1-10_i386.build
<ScottK> At a guess it's the 'cannot write' part that's relevant and you're trying to write somewhere you don't have permission.
<ScottK> I suspect that's just as well as it's likely something different is happening than you expected.
<norsetto> seems like somebody had the great idea to mass-create needs-packaging bugs for all lp hosted projects
<ScottK> norsetto: Lovely.
<jderemer> Is there a way to add a menu item, via file (NOT gui) where the other help buttons are under system?
<Laibsch> ScottK: but the problem starts with "tar: usr/local/arm/2.95.3/bin/arm-linux-size: Wrote only 2560 of 10240 bytes"
<Laibsch> which indeed suggests something being full and overflowing
<ScottK> True.
<ScottK> So far whenever I've hit that error it's been actually full, so I don't know what to tell you.
 * ogra wonders if Laibsch uses a tmpfs or so 
<ogra> that would mean you ran out of ram :)
 * ScottK just deleted 5GB of leftovers today to make more room.
<norsetto> scottk: and there is already somebody busy filing them all as wishlist ... so much so for bug traging
<ScottK> Is it the same person?
<norsetto> ScottK: no
<norsetto> ScottK: I'm curious to see if he will at least spot all the duplicates
<ScottK> Glad to know that we've got all the important bugs triaged so people have time to concentrate on fluff like that.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: start yelling at the bugsquad again: )
<norsetto> scottk: have you ever been working on a bug that was triaged properly? I don't think I ever stumbled against a bug that was triaged at all to say the truth
<Hobbsee> the fact that they keep hitting them means that they seem to be looking for them, though.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: These haven't intruded on my mailbox, so it's a waste of time, but it doesn't actually affect me.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: who's doing the wishlist changing?
<sebner> cya folks
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Dunno.  Ask norsetto.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: ^
<jderemer> anyone got any idea on the menu list question?
<ScottK> norsetto: I have, but it's been rare.
<Laibsch> ogra: I thought I did, but I don't.  Seems like I have tmpfs only on the laptop.  / is very small some 500MB, everything partitioned out. 150MB to 200MB free on the root partition.
<ScottK> jderemer: The answer to your question is yes.  I've no idea how.
<Laibsch> even if that filled up it would take a few seconds
<Laibsch> I saw no decrease in available space on the root partition
<Laibsch> which hosts /tmp
<norsetto> Hobbsee: sebastian rode
<jderemer> thanks
<ScottK> persia: RE the ubuntu-bugs thing.  It does not appear to me that there is currently a basis for fruitful discussion.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: with a bit of luck, they'll find one at UDS, agree on the same sorts of things that we did, then come bakc and implement it.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Unfortunately, I'm going to UDS, so I'll likely get sucked into it.  Since it's already apparently decided we're using LP wrong, I don't know what there is to discuss.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: how to use it correctly?  :)
<ScottK> In this case I guess not at all.
 * sistpoty|work is to blame for inventing the wrong usage of LP (remember the merge web tool I once wrote? *g*)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: if you can poke them into actually coming up with a solution that actually works, rather than sidesteppign the entire issue by "it shouldnt' be here", and it gets implemented, then that's probably a good result.
<ScottK> While generally I support that idea, since soyuz is kind of integral to the workflow I don't know how we avoid it.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'd rather just slap people who mess up until someone in ubuntu-bugs decides that maybe they should pay attention.  Going and discussing seems to get nowhere.
<sistpoty|work> e.g. sync requests imho really belong into bugs. Instead, there should be a button "sync blabla (x.y) from ..." which a motu can hit :)
<sistpoty|work> (don't belong)
<persia> jderemer: re: menu file: last I looked, you'd need to modify the gnome-menus code.
<persia> ScottK: You may be correct.  Optimistically, physical proximity may be assistive.
<ScottK> persia: That or the opposite.  We'll see.
<persia> On the other hand, I don't consider that sufficient reason to completely give up on the value of a bugtracker
<cprov> sistpoty|work: right, who ever said that the solution using bugs is optimal or definitive ?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i've poked bdmurray about it
<ScottK> persia: No, but unless two parties are willing to have a reasonable discussion there's no point.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you can force them into a reasonable discussion.
<persia> ScottK: True.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: bar the door, don't let them out until they've actually come up with a solution.  or similar.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: He'll just get over-ruled again.  We've established that his agreeing to stuff doesn't mean anything.
<sistpoty|work> cprov: right, but I guess it's the best we have right now ;)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: No.  You can't force someone into a reasonable discussion.
<persia> ScottK: Don't take everything as binding precedent.  Some is, but much is significantly more flexible than it may appear
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i'm using the angle that with the members of the bugsquad doing that are just wasting their time.
<ScottK> persia: We went and had a nice discussion with bdmurray about it and had an agreement.  That's been unilaterally thrown out.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: hopefully that will change their minds
<cprov> sistpoty|work: exactly, even being bad, it's best you have. There will progress in this area already in 2.0, so raise your hand in UDS to participate of the discussions.
<Hobbsee> after all, their work being ignored / overwritten is the best demotivator there is...
<persia> ScottK: Sure.  That doesn't mean that it will necessarily happen again, nor that it won't, only that it happened once.
<sistpoty|work> cprov: cool... any ETA yet? (and sorry, won't be there at UDS)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Fair enough.  I'm using the angle that my CoC complaint angst will cost them more contributors than having to understand what a bug is about before the mark on it.
<cprov> sistpoty|work: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+spec/sync-workflows
<persia> cprov: I suspect a large part of the frustration is that the existing practice (since Breezy) has been suddenly rejected because a discussion was added to the agenda, rather than with any opinions as to whether the outcome of the discussion has value.
<ScottK> persia: Perhaps, but I feel like we are cleraly the wronged party here and so it's really not up to me to try and improve the situation.
<ScottK> persia: No.  It's that we had the discussion.  We had an agreement and it was unilaterally tossed out.
<cprov> persia: how do you mean, who did reject it ?
<persia> ScottK: I vehemently disagree with that.  The wronged party has the largest incentive to improve the situation, and so if you are wronged, you ought participate in a solution that causes you to no longer be wronged.
<ScottK> persia: If you step on my foot, I don't want you to do it again, but I think before I consider you might be worth discussing it with, you ought to apologize and take the first move.
<Hobbsee> persia: assuming, of course, the participants are willing, and don't go "well, you shouldn't use launchpad for these types of bugs, so screw you, use these bugtracker rules, and redo your workflow"
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: OTOH, if you get in my way and bump into me, I might feel that I'm not responsible for any foot-treading caused.
<persia> ScottK: I think you invite unhappiness with that philosophy, but can understand it.  If you step on my foot, I'll pointedly apologize for having had the poor taste to put my foot under yours.  If you do it again, I'll likely be more pointed, and less apologetic.
<ScottK> cprov: Hobbsee and I discussed having bugsquad not mark up workflow bugs because it's disruptive and a waste of time with bdmurray and had an agreement about it.  Henrik unilaterally reverted Hobbsee's wiki changes.
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: Would they agree that you're the wronged party?
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: I don't really care.
<persia> cprov: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2008-May/000861.html
<cprov> ScottK: uhh, I'm not qualified enough to discuss this, then ;)
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: Yeah, I know that feeling :s
<persia> (alternate view at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage?action=diff&rev2=50&rev1=49)
<ScottK> persia: In this case I think we got our foot stepped on (workflow bugs marked up), went and politely discussed how to avoid the problem, had an agreement, and then were told that really it was our fault for having our foot there.
<ScottK> persia: So I'm not going start a discussion that starts with is our use of LP for workflow legitimate.  It is and have been for years.
<ScottK> persia: It's an old negotiating trick and I'm not going to fall for it.
<ScottK> They need to recognize our right to exist before we can have a meaningful dialogue.
<ScottK> ... to use a slightly different metaphor.
<persia> ScottK: I think the analogy is strained, but to stretch it further, I think if it's a good place for our foot to be, that ought be explained.  On the other hand, It's a philosphical thing: I can't change your opinion about how to react, but I won't agree that it's appropriate for me to take no action at UDS towards a model that works for all.
 * StevenK waves
<dholbach> ScottK: I really don't think that Henrik "you shouldn't do this" - I think he tried to express the view of a bugsquad member "oh, this doesn't really look like a bug report to me"
<dholbach> ScottK: it will be good to discuss this at UDS in person
<persia> dholbach: Sure, but we've been using those since Breezy...
<ScottK> dholbach: Unorthodox has a dictionary meaning.
<StevenK> Speaking of UDS, I'm on my way.
<ScottK> dholbach: I don't see a basis for discussion.
<persia> StevenK: Have a good flight
<dholbach> persia: I know and I'm not saying "let's stop using bugs for it"
<StevenK> persia: Just got off a 7:30h flight to Singapore.
<persia> StevenK: How many hops do you have?
<dholbach> persia: but if there is a way to make things more obvious (like getting bug statuses and other stuff in sync or whatever else needs doing) it will be good to discuss it and think of a way
<StevenK> Singapore -> Frankfurt, Frankfurt -> Prague
<persia> OOh.  Singaport->Frankfurt is one of the extra-fuel flights :)
<persia> dholbach: Surely.  I expect this falls back to the discussion in November about appropriate use of bug stati.  Further, I think that this is a topic of interest to all people who interact with bugs, and very much feel that developers are just as important as any other bug users: perhaps in large part because most bugs ought eventually result in developer action.
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: It sounds like your real argument is about proper procedure for resolving problems, not this problem in particular.
<dholbach> persia: Right
<ScottK> But apparently only so long as it doesnt' inconvenience bug squad.
 * Hobbsee notes that legit bugs turn into workflow bugs as soon as they get a patch attached to them.
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: that you need to work out a way of discussing problems where agreements stick
<persia> ScottK: In the view of some members of bugsquad.  Consider this an opportunity for education.
<andrew_sayers> Until you've got that, there's certainly no basis for discussion on this particular problem.
<persia> Hobbsee: I'd argue that all bugs turn into workflow bugs at some point if they are being fixed.
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: Until some members of the community are willing to be collaborative, I think there's no point.  I've tried.  I give up.
<persia> andrew_sayers: Well, yes, and no.  Generally we've that, but as a primarily meritocratic community, there is dissension, and it may appear very vocally until it is resolved.
 * ScottK is wondering how hard it would be to write a script to monitor the relevant wiki page and autmatically restore the stuff if it gets reverted.
<persia> ScottK: There are surely better solutions, but it's a relatively trivial script with editmoin
<sistpoty|work> hey dholbach... thanks for sponsoring libxfont :)
<dholbach> sistpoty|work: thanks a lot for fixing it - with your work and geser's perl-rebuilds intrepid became MUCH MORE FUN! :)
<sistpoty|work> dholbach: heh, I guess I'll finish my dist-upgrade tonight then :)
<Laney> sistpoty|work: Yeah, nice work on the fix!
<dholbach> sistpoty|work: do you have an idea why this happens?
<dholbach> sistpoty|work: or rather why the fix is necessary?
<sistpoty|work> dholbach: kind of... some program of x (or library) is linking against libxfont1 and defines its own version of a function defined in libxfont1. with -Bsymbolic-functions, this will resolve to the version from libxfont1 and not to the own defined version
<sistpoty|work> dholbach: at least that's my guess of what's going on
<dholbach> sistpoty|work: ugh.... why "its own version"?
<sistpoty|work> dholbach: well, let's say you have extern void foo(void) in libxfont1 and *also* defined in a program linking against it. then -Bsymbolic-function will make a difference imho
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you'd do better to write an autolart, and to change back any conditions which are wrong on workflow bugs.
<dholbach> sistpoty|work: alright, I see
<sistpoty|work> dholbach: it would still be interesting to see *what* is getting overridden, and if it's done on purpose or is a bug in the first place
<dholbach> sistpoty|work: exactly
<dholbach> sistpoty|work: I'll leave that for Bryce and others more clueful - right now I'm just happy not having to hold libxfont1 :)
<dholbach> more clueful than me.... :)
<sistpoty|work> dholbach: yeah, so do I (as my knowledge of X is quite limited *g*)
<dholbach> thanks for the fix :)
<andrew_sayers> Is there any accepted way of requesting that someone reverted an edit explain why they did it?
<\sh> Hobbsee, let us just install a RequestTracker for Workflow Bugs ,->...it's easier to maintain then LP and can be simple controlled by email ;)
<sistpoty|work> dholbach: you're welcome ;)
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: He did say why he did it.  He thinks there shouldn't be workflow bugs.
<ScottK> \sh: That'd be great except when it needs to touch soyuz.
<andrew_sayers> And that's policy, not just one person that didn't get the memo?
<\sh> ScottK, it's just for maintaining: "Merging: foo-0.9.6-bar.crap" -> Status: New -> Prio: 1 -> send eMail: "Status: InProgress I'm working on it" tasks-
<\sh> ScottK, when MoM would push those things into RT, we could even priotize highly needed merges
<Hobbsee> \sh: woot!
<Hobbsee> ScottK: one of the bugsquad guys is going to mass invalidate them.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Mass invalidate which?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: the needs packaging bugs, whcih just contain the LP url for each of the projects.
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: The individual in question is Canonical's head of Ubuntu QA, so he's more equal than others.
<ScottK> Hobbsee:
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Ah.  Thanks.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Is the individual in question going to get hit with a cluebat too?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: dunno.  he clearly didn't read the part about checking for dupes, so isn't likely to read complaining email either
<Hobbsee> ScottK: but having his bugs mass-closed should be obvious enough.
<ScottK> Besides, if it's a bugsquad person they can do whatever they want because it's to complex to actually ask them to make a useful contribution.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Of course events here in the last year have caused me to completely redefine my concept of 'obvious enough'.  I'm really not sure.
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: ah, okay.  Point taken :)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> yes, well.
<\sh> Canonicals Head Of Ubuntu QA?
<ScottK> Or some similar title.
<ScottK> Henrik Nilsen Omma
<\sh> Ah
<ScottK> \sh: The same expert triager who got us this piece of PR: http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2007/12/ubuntu_linux_users_bugs_1.html
<ScottK> SRU for that has since been done no thanks to "QA".
<\sh> ScottK, well, I see that only in this post are many "bugs" regarding Ubuntu/Debian relationship...so I don't comment on it...it's just feeding trolls
<bddebian> Who is Cypherbios these days?
 * \sh needs some nicotine...and waiting for esx to finish up with ubutnu server install
<ScottK> \sh: No.  No need to comment now.  It's history.  I just don't experience him as a great value added in the process (I'm sure he does great stuff, I just don't run into it).
<encompass> anyone looking for another project ot package?  We are REALLY in need of someone for http://launchpad.net/memaker it has been packaged before, and I don't think it would take much effort from there.  I can help change the program to fit your needs to.
<ScottK> encompass: Since it's written in Python you might want to see someone from the Debian Python Application Packaging Team in #debian-python on OFTC.
<ScottK> They might want it in Debian and we'd get it automatically from there.
<LaserJock> \sh: do you really not use LP to check for existing bugs in a package?
 * sistpoty|work heads home now... cya
<ScottK> LaserJock: I read him to say he preferred a two step workflow: 1.  Merge.  2. Bugfix.  As long as he does 2, it gets you there by and large.
<LaserJock> sure
<encompass> ScottK: ok I can try there too I suppose.
<LaserJock> I just don't understand, "
<LaserJock> As long there is no real way to automate checking for bugreports in a
<LaserJock> package
<LaserJock> "
<LaserJock> and I don't understand why filing a merge bug if you're gonna take a while is a bad thing
<LaserJock> since contributors already need to file bugs it seems like the easiest way to go
<ScottK> LaserJock: Why do you need to understand more than a number of volunteers would find mandating of such a workflow troublesome.  Insisting people do it your way is a good way to get them to volunteer their efforts elsewhere.
<LaserJock> ScottK: likewise
<ScottK> I'm asking for guidelines and common sense.
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to understand why people are doing things they way they are
<LaserJock> as am I
<ScottK> OK.  It sounded to me like you want a rule about MOTUs have to file a merge bug.
<LaserJock> I would call that a guideline and common sense
<LaserJock> but clearly we have different merging workflows going on
<LaserJock> I didn't think there was that much difference until this thread
<ScottK> For a package that I'm familiar with it probably takes me about as long to write the bug as it would to do the merge (less the waiting for it to build).
<LaserJock> oh for sure
<LaserJock> I'm only saying for bug where it's gonna take some time and you don't want a collision
<LaserJock> hence the "common sense" part
<ScottK> So it's a lot of trouble to go to for something that can be handled with a little paying attention to what's going on in the package.
<LaserJock> I don't understand "trouble" there
<LaserJock> and, to borrow a phrase, it's an orthodox way to do it
<ScottK> If someone wants to look at a merge/sync, I'm pretty sure libetepan is a sync, but you'd need to look at rebuilding the rdepends too.
<ScottK> LaserJock: No.  It's not.  It's never been a rule that developers had to file bugs.
<LaserJock> we've *always* used bugs for process workflows
<ScottK> Generically, yes, but specifically not for that.
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> we did it through dapper
<LaserJock> and contributors *still* have to do it
<ScottK> OK.  So not for the last two years.
<LaserJock> so only MOTUs haven't
<LaserJock> so I don't think it's anything unheard of to file a merge bug to "lock"
<ScottK> Yes, but not unheard of and orthodoxy are different things.
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> orthodoxy in the sense that we us process bugs
<LaserJock> almost everything we do is through a bug report
<LaserJock> it doesn't seem like a stretch to use it for merges as well
<mok0> LaserJock: I agree
<pochu> I'm all for requiring people to block things in MoM when it has comment support as DaD has. I'm all against requiring people to report bugs. I agree with ScottK in that that will cause directly or indirectly less contributions
<ScottK> I think we need to use bugs for stuff that needs to get to the archive admins to process on soyuz.
<LaserJock> ScottK: why should we limit it to that?
<ScottK> This is not applicable for merges.
<LaserJock> we use bugs for everything
<mok0> pochu: but it could happen at a push of a button in MoM
<ScottK> I'm saying it's needed for that.
<pochu> mok0: but what's the benefit of that?
<ScottK> I'm saying that's stuff we can't do another way.  Not that that's all we should do.
<LaserJock> ScottK: right, but I consider a merge to be a packaging bug so it just seems logical that you would find a report on it
<LaserJock> if people don't see it that way then we can discuss that
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to find the source of the different workflows here
<mok0> pochu: the benefit is that the workflow gets documented and people can see that the merge is being worked on. A lot of users (not developers) follow whats going on at LP
<LaserJock> pochu: why would it cause less contributions?
<ScottK> It takes about 1% the time to make a comment on DaD as it does to file a bug.
<LaserJock> pffft
<LaserJock> that's not true
<ScottK> LaserJock: Because you're going to add rules to 'make' us do stuff we don't want to do.
<LaserJock> it can take the same if not less time
<LaserJock> Sc\
<LaserJock> ScottK: we have all kinds of rules
<mok0> ScottK: It can be done automatically
<ScottK> On DaD I click, type, hit enter on a page I'm already on.
<ScottK> LaserJock: Yes.  We have lots of rules.  The rules we have should not be more than we need.
<mok0> ScottK: exactly, and all it takes is a script to take your name and create a bug at LP
<LaserJock> ScottK: we can do something like file-merge <pkgname>
<LaserJock> ScottK: sure
<LaserJock> ScottK: I'm not trying to *add* rules
<LaserJock> I'm trying to find the best workflow for people so we're on the same page
<ScottK> I don't understand how making a rule I have to file a bug is not adding a rule.
<LaserJock> because we already have merge rules
<ScottK> I don't think there is one best workflow that's best for everyone.
<LaserJock> we're just clarifying the workflow
<ScottK> But not merge rules that say I have to file a bug.
<LaserJock> so you have a problem because you don't like the workflow
<LaserJock> that's *not* "oh poor us, don't add more rules"
<mok0> All that's asked for is that it gets documented at LP that someone is doing the work
<LaserJock> we're trying to figure out how to get things done
<LucidFox> Blimey, apparently bug #230350 is so big that even LP times out
<mok0> It can be done by software
<ubottu> LucidFox: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
<LaserJock> I realize that there are different workflows, the point that I'm trying to get across is that we should figure out how to make the different workflows work well
<ScottK> mok0: Yes, but then I have to find the bug number and add it to my changelog (or hunt it down and manually close it later), so it's not just filing the bug that's more work.
<mok0> ScottK: You get it in the email
<ScottK> OK, so then I have to wait for LP to get around to mailing it.
<ScottK> It all adds up to more work for very little benifit.
<mok0> ScottK: yes, but are you that fast :-)
<ScottK> Sometimes.
<LaserJock> I totally agree that if it's a fast merge there's no need for a bug
<ScottK> So now define fast merge and what's the threshold where I get yelled at for not filing a bug?
<LaserJock> but if you're want to exclude people from working on something I think the best way is with a bug
<LaserJock> oh, generally I'd say if you're gonna get to it within and hour or two
<LaserJock> maybe a day if people aren't going fast
<ogra> oh sigh, cant people write proper scripts before they use LP ....
 * ogra mutters about bug #230350
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230350 in libwoodstox-java "Missing Debian Maintainer field" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230350
<ScottK> ogra: I'm going to go unsubscribe myself from the one package that got me that one before the deluge arrives.
<ogra> i dont think even half of the packages eve exist in debian grmlbl
<ScottK> Heh.
<ScottK> He's not even here to kvetch at.
<ogra> well, its a nice attempt
<ogra> but he should add more checks to not spam people
<LaserJock> what is it? I'm getting timeouts
<juliank> Question: Is it possible to sync a package as an SRU, provided the resulting binary package is absolutely the same? (Especially for Python scripts)
<ScottK> LaserJock: It's one bug for all packages that don't have an original maintainer.
<ogra> a script moaning about missing Maintainer field changes while having -ubuntu versions
<LaserJock> bah, nvm, I just got the emails
<ScottK> juliank: No.  Sync it to the development release and then we'd do an upload to -proposed identical except for debian/changelog.
<LaserJock> it'd be nice if we has some sort of dicussion on that beforehand :/
<ScottK> LaserJock: It's also be REALLY nice if status changes on a bug only went to people subscribed for the relevant package and not to everybody.
<mok0> ScottK, LaserJock, what is your opinion on the idea that some packages can have an real-person maintainer?
<ScottK> mok0: They can.  There is no prohibition.
<nxvl> i will take mi plane in 8 hours
<nxvl> i'm so exited!
<mok0> ScottK: well, isn't that the solution for people who wish to claim maintainership of certain packages?
<mok0> ScottK: contributors will know to stay away from those
<ScottK> mok0: As I said in mail, I don't generally want that.
<ScottK> Team maintainership has a lot of advantages.
<mok0> ScottK: ... but it's difficult to have it both ways
<LaserJock> mok0: not if you file bugs ;-)
<mok0> LaserJock: but ScottK doesn't like that either
<ScottK> mok0: Go look at the debian/changelog for dkim-milter and tell me if you need anything else to know if it'd be a good idea to discuss it with me before you change the package?
<LaserJock> ScottK: I know, I've been trying to work on a solution with the LP guys
<LaserJock> ScottK: frankly they're not really getting it, but I'm still working on it :-)
<LaserJock> ScottK: I think they feel we shouldn't be filing such bugs in the first place
<LaserJock> sort of along the lines of the bugsquad :-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: Then they should design their system differently.
<LaserJock> ScottK: apparently that is very difficult and these are only corner cases
<ScottK> LaserJock: For some of the large ones I've done the ability for one bug to block another would have served better, but the LP devs have already decided we don't need that.
<juliank> 2nd Question: dir2ogg and ndisgtk get only (small) bugfix releases in the 0.11 (dir2ogg) / 0.8 (ndisgtk) series. Is it possible to get "SRU micro version update exception" for them?
<mok0> ScottK: I can see that you've been active merging that package since last summer
<LaserJock> juliank: perhaps, it would be on a case-by-case basis
<mok0> ScottK: I can also see jdong did the last upload
<ScottK> mok0: That's because I was away from my gpg key and we were 4 hours from the Hardy repositories closing so I asked him to upload it.
<mok0> ScottK: I don't see that you literally ask people not to touch it
<ScottK> mok0: No.  I don't, but what do you think is sensible in such a case?
<LaserJock> it makes sense if you're unsure to ask ScottK about it
<mok0> LaserJock: that's evident to someone who's worked in the community for a while
<LaserJock> yep
<ScottK> As it happens, the patch I added just before release is the only important fix in the new upstream, so it's not worth bothering with a merge right now.
<LaserJock> hence why people should be asking people who've been around for a while
<ScottK> Also I found a bug in the package yesterday when regeneating my dkim keys due to the openssl fiasco.
<mok0> But we've just created the contributor team to invite more people to do work in a structured environment
<LaserJock> yep
<ScottK> mok0: I think we created it do give recognition to people who are already doing so.
<mok0> So it doesn't make sense to require that people know about a bunch of more-or-less unwritten rules
<LaserJock> why not?
<LaserJock> we should have to write down *everything*
<LaserJock> it's just not practical
<LaserJock> we expect if you're gonna be a part of the team you're going to interact with the team
<LaserJock> as questions, etc.
<LaserJock> *ask
<mok0> LaserJock: No, which is why it is practical to have a workflow that implements logical structures that are easy to understand and follow
<juliank> LaserJock: Especially since I develop dir2ogg and ndisgtk and don't want to duplicate the work.
<LaserJock> juliank: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and if you'd like file a bug
<LaserJock> mok0: sure
<LaserJock> so saying things like  "if you're unsure of what to do, a good idea is to ask the last or most common Ubuntu uploader"
<LaserJock> seems pretty sane
<mok0> LaserJock: the current documentation says to sort of look around on IRC to see if you can maybe talk the the last uploader and perhaps see if it could eventually be possible that you maybe could try and get some help to perform a tentative merge....
<LaserJock> as does "locking"  packages you're working on via MoM or, better IMO, a LP bug
<mok0> :-)
<LaserJock> well, at some point you've got to communicate with people
<LaserJock> you can't really get around that in team maintanence
<mok0> Well, with DaD, you have that little field where you can type a comment. So if things where centered around such a system, it could be a compromise
<LaserJock> mok0: MoM will have that soon
<LaserJock> that's what I meant
<jdong>     - change from svn, don't accept to move files to the burn location
<jdong>       otherwise they will simply be deleted
<jdong> I laughed....
<Pici> jdong: me too
<mok0> LaserJock: ... I lean to the solution that the DaD little field is sent to LP along with other details of the merge, such as the person doing it.
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm just not sure
<LaserJock> I guess it stems from me not really using MoM
<mok0> LaserJock: perhaps you could even get the new bug # back on the web page
<LaserJock> I'd rather avoid MoM-centric processes
<mok0> LaserJock: but it has to be something-centric
<mok0> LaserJock: that
<mok0> that's the whole idea... to make it clear to people what is being worked on
<LaserJock> i.e. MoM is useful to get info from, but not really the place to "do" things
<LaserJock> that's why I don't like the comment field thing so much, though many many people do so  that's cool
<LaserJock> mok0: well, I would argue that it should be LP-centric because that's where our bugs are
<mok0> LaserJock: But LP doesn't have a nice tool like MoM
<LaserJock> what tool?
<mok0> LaserJock: and I am saying that MoM should create the bug at LP, so you will have both
<mok0> LaserJock: the tool that gives you the diffs and tentative merge
<LaserJock> mok0: and what would happen if I just filed a bug in LP, would MoM pick it up?
<LaserJock> mok0: I find those pretty suspect and don't regularly use them
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'd argue that it shouldn't be any more LP centric that it needs to be because LP is slow and painful to use and is a proprietary tool that is arbitrarily changed by its developers for reasons that are at best obscure from an Ubuntu developer's perspective.
<mok0> LaserJock: I don't know how MoM works behind the scences, but in principle, yes
<LaserJock> mok0: well, since MoM can't do anything with bugs now it's hypothetical ;-)
<mok0> ScottK: I tend to agree with you there, but the API and tools to query Malone's database is there
<LaserJock> ScottK: but it is our bug tracker
<momelod> greetings channel
<LaserJock> so it sure makes sense to use it as much as we can for bug-related activity, IMO
<momelod> is this the place for ubuntu support?
<mok0> ScottK: ... and although the Launchpad web site is a mess to navigate, I acually like the bug tracking in Malone
<LaserJock> momelod: you want #ubuntu
<momelod> thanx LaserJock
<norsetto> what was that ....!support ?
<norsetto> !support
<ubottu> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
<norsetto> oh yes ....
<Laney> blueyed: Mind if I take the darcs merge?
<blueyed> Laney: no, please do.
<Laney> Thanks :)
<mok0> Btw, the wiki documentation for contributing to ubuntu needs a good rework to incorporate the contributor team
<ScottK> LaserJock: I think it makes sense to use LP where we have to or it's the best tool for the job.  If we have a better alternative (e.g. REVU) we should use it.
<norsetto> scottk: when are you flying?
<ScottK> I leave on Saturday evening and arrive Sunday evening.
<norsetto> scottk: cool, I'll see you at the Hotel then. I should be there around 16:00 on Sunday afternoon
<norsetto> ScottK: thats 4pm for the american time format challenged :-)
<ScottK> norsetto: I was in the military.  I know how to add an subtract 12.  US military uses 24 hour clock and most of mine are set that way.
<nxvl> i'll leave in 8 hours!
<norsetto> ScottK: ok, next time I will mention zulu too
<nxvl> i'm so exited!
<nxvl> norsetto: btw, can you please find me some cheat, but reliable hotel on Rome for my bcakapacker trip?
<nxvl> s/cheat/cheap
<norsetto> nxvl: kind of difficult for me, I live here, I never had a need for an hotel ...
<nxvl> mm
<norsetto> nxvl: central location?
<nxvl> that's what i thought
<nxvl> norsetto: if possible yes
<geser> norsetto: have you a spare room and want to earn some money? :)
<norsetto> nxvl: because central and cheap are kind of not going very well together
<nxvl> norsetto: there should be a lot of backapackers hotels out there i think
<eddyMul> I'm packaging python-django from its SVN trunk. I have working packages for Hardy. I want to contribute my patches to debian (experimental). Can anyone give me guidance on the steps I should take? (or whether I should bother doing this at all...)
<norsetto> geser: not if he is paying with US$ ;-)
<nxvl> eddyMul: debian developers only care about their packages, not ubuntu ones, so what you need to do is separate your patches and send them as patches not as debdiff
<nxvl> eddyMul: unless you repackage their packages
<nxvl> norsetto: i'm going with euros
<nxvl> :D
<norsetto> nxvl: wise decision
<nxvl> yup
<eddyMul> nxvl: so, I guess I should start with trying to get it to build under "pbuilder --distribution experimental". You're saying I should not send them debdiff of my resulting debian-experimental package?
<nxvl> when my sister went to europe, hes trip mates loose 250 US$ on change
<norsetto> nxvl: I'm thinking hard but I can't recall anything, let me call my sister, she might know
<nxvl> norsetto: there is no hurry, i will be on rome on 26 IIRC
 * nxvl checks
<nxvl> yup, 26 night
<norsetto> nxvl: sorry, I just checked the only B&B I know of and that is not available anymore
<\sh> re
<nixternal> REVU! REVU! REVU! REVU! REVU! REVU! REVU!!!!!!!!
<\sh> MERGE! MERGE! MERGE!
* nixternal changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: ï»¿https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open, go wild! https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ | TODAY IS A REVU DAY!!! GET TO REVU'ing!!!
<norsetto> nixternal: REVU for President?
<nixternal> yes!
 * norsetto notes down to vote REVU
<nixternal> persia: thanks for the raw log....I forgot to reconnect my server last night so that is why I wasn't online earlier
<\sh> strike...round about 10G traffic because of the new pics on the blog ;)
 * norsetto always thought that REVU days were Mondays (so much so for not attending latest MOTU meetings)
<\sh> looks like that I serve at least one iso per hour...round about 700MB tells my traffic report...nice
<norsetto> geser: is it you that filed 230050?
<nixternal> has Debian adopted the copyright format proposal from http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat ?
<ScottK> No, but some people are using it.
<norsetto> geser: just curious to know what the problem is
<ScottK> Debian Policy documents existing practice, it doesn't define what it should be.
<nixternal> ya, I see that...hrmm
<nixternal> ScottK: do you know if those using the new format will get denied by archive admins at all?
<pochu> nixternal: they are aproved AFAIK
<ScottK> As long as it has all the required elements, I'd expect not.
<nixternal> groovy, thanks
<pochu> nixternal: see http://packages.debian.org/unstable/source/libgtksourceviewmm, http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/libg/libgtksourceviewmm/libgtksourceviewmm_2.2.0-2/copyright
<\sh> bug #230393 ....
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230393 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "Mysql socket file breaks PHP/Perl/etc..." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230393
<pochu> nixternal: and all the GNOME c++ bindings have been ported to the new format
<nixternal> groovy
 * pochu learns the meaning of groovy :-)
<pochu> groovy! ;)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> my daughter hates it when I say it, she says "groovy isn't cool anymore, the new thing is "that's hot"".....I told her Paris Hilton is an idiot and I will never utter a word that she has
<norsetto> nixternal: is cool still cool?
<nixternal> I told her that everytime I hear her say "that's hot" I will ground her from one item for one month each time she says it :)
<nixternal> ya, I think cool is still cool, if not, then I am getting way to old
<norsetto> nixternal: cool
<nixternal> hehe
<CrippledCanary> any one please come with some advice on how to take bug #221973 and bug #224241 forward...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221973 in smstools "smstools folder under /var/run isn't recreated after reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221973
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224241 in smstools "smstools stop working after upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224241
<CrippledCanary> all the code is in there but it needs sposoring
<CrippledCanary> sponsoring
<ScottK> Fortunately we have a 5 year old to enforce language restrictions.  She always catches it when her older sisters slip up and then they get soap in their mouth.
<nixternal> ScottK: ahh, I switched from soap to paprika...paprika is hated in our family, we don't even cook with it anymore :)
<norsetto> CrippledCanary: u-u-s is already subscribed, so its just a question of time
<ScottK> We were keeping score of language slip-ups for a while on the message board in the kitchen.  Once it became clear my wife was the clear loser, we stopped.
<nixternal> lol
<norsetto> What is a slip-up? When you mispell a word?
<nixternal> when you swear
<norsetto> ah
<nixternal> I have a nephew that if you slip up in front of him, he will repeat it for the next month
<geser> norsetto: no, I didn't file this bug. I'm not that insane.
<LaserJock> ScottK: do you use Firefox or Konqueror?
<nhaines> pochu: Thanks for the extensive and very helpful comments you made on my PyRoom package!
<pochu> nhaines: np, let me know when you fix them and I'll review it again :)
<pochu> or if you have any issue with them...
<nhaines> My only question is about installing an AUTHORS file.  How should I acknowledge the project maintainers?
<pochu> nhaines: they are credited in /usr/share/doc/$package/copyright
<nhaines> Aha!
<nhaines> I think when I had Homepage: in the source stanza I got debuild warnings.
<nhaines> Oh!  I know.  What did you use to check the packaging for warnings and errors?  I'd like to do that myself and spare you the hassle.  ;)
<norsetto> nhaines: that would be lintian
<jderemer> I'm trying to submit a bug for ubuntu's yelp.  However, a .crash file doesnt get created by apport even though it is submitted.  They just mark it invalid if there was no .crash file...  Im not quite sure how to proceed.  any help?
 * \sh thought for hardy it's switched off? or did pitti something new?
<jderemer> i enabled it in /etc/default/apport
<jderemer> and rebooted
<\sh> jderemer: it's submittet to LP?
<jderemer> yes
<jderemer> but they just invalidate it... because theres no .crash file..
<jderemer> :(
<jderemer> thats why im confused
<greg-g> jderemer: bug number?
<jderemer> im trying to help...
<\sh> jderemer: which bug no?
<jderemer> 230439
<greg-g> bug 230439
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230439 in yelp "crash when going back to the first page opened" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230439
<greg-g> jderemer: so there is no .crash file in /var/crash right?
<jderemer> yep
<jderemer> folder is completely empty
<greg-g> then it is not invalid, I'll reopen it for you.
<jderemer> thanks.
<greg-g> no problem
<\sh> bah...there is no need about a .crash file
<\sh> greg-g: are you reopening it, if not, I'll reopen it with a nice message
<greg-g> \sh: go for it, I was just trying to reproduce
<greg-g> jderemer: can you give me a couple of concrete steps to help me reproduce this problem?
<jderemer> sometimes when you go to another page, then use the back button to go back to the index page... it just crashes.
<greg-g> jderemer: oh, and for future reference, #ubuntu-bugs is the place you want to go for help concerning bugs in Launchpad.
<jderemer> sorry...
<greg-g> jderemer: any specific pages that you are going back from
<\sh> greg-g: well, I don't want to sound to harsh..because asking reporter to provide the steps to reproduce and "just because no .crash file is there, I'll invalid" is different
<greg-g> no, no worries, the issue is being taken care of, just, you know, for future reference :)
<jderemer> thanks for the information
<jderemer> greg-g: any page
<greg-g> \sh: right, they should have asked for steps to reproduce, they are in -bugs right now if you want to speak with them
<greg-g> jderemer: ok, thanks
<\sh> greg-g: TBH, I stop talking...it's most of the time the same problem again "ah, yeah, we don't know" "it's not in the docs"
<\sh> greg-g: but..yes...moment
<greg-g> \sh: now now, putting "bug triagers" in quotes isn't going to help
<norsetto> the devs/bug-triagers war rages on ....
<greg-g> bah, it needs to stop
<\sh> norsetto: I don't want that
<\sh> greg-g: I have my reasons
<\sh> greg-g: it's not "the bug-triagers are not valuable"...really...please don't read it
<\sh> like that
<greg-g> ok
<norsetto> greg-g: are you greg grossmeyer?
<greg-g> with an i not a y, but yeah :)
<\sh> greg-g: grossmeier with an I sounds german ;)
<norsetto> greg_g: I saw the triage you did for gnomeradio, that was pretty good
<greg-g> norsetto: thanks
<norsetto> greg-g: nothing to thanks for, I should thank you
<greg-g> I'm trying to get the maintainer to take control of the project in LP right now (yo uhave to create a new project in LP to create the upstream bug tracking links)
<greg-g> \sh: the family is from germany, a couple generations back
<\sh> greg-g: you see now what I mean...it's not worth the energy....
<greg-g> \sh: yeah, I expected more from this situation, sorry :(
<\sh> bug reports which are more valuable are getting ignored, and bug reports which are useless are begin investigated
<LaserJock> for goodness sakes
<LaserJock> why the heck do we even have apport if we're gonna close bugs people report with it
 * greg-g grrs
 * \sh drinks more beerÃ¶
<\sh> really...
<greg-g> jderemer: (not sure if you got my private message but...) if you need help later on, feel free to ask me
<LaserJock> well, it's been great hanging with you all for the last couple years, such great friends. I think I better move along for a while at least. Good luck with Intrepid.
<bddebian> ??????
<greg-g> como?
<nhaines> Huh?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ok, bye
<LaserJock> bddebian: cya dude
<laga> what's up? developers VS triagers?
<bddebian> ....
<greg-g> hey, we're not all bad! ;)
 * greg-g is a triager
 * mok0 cheers greg-g
<laga> i was just wondering, i didn't follow the drama.
<mok0> Drama? What? When? Where? :-P
<greg-g> heh
<laga> if there was any ;)
<mok0> The discussion was about merging workflow
<mok0> whether or not to always have a bug on LP
<norsetto> ajmitch: wasn't that a bit rude?
<jderemer> it was lots of fun :)
<norsetto> jderemer: no, I don't find any fun in all this
<jderemer> ... dude my head hurts
<jderemer> :(
<jderemer> it def wasnt fun at all
<nhaines> Thanks for doing all the hard work for that bug, though!
<jderemer> haha
<jderemer> hey i tried
<jderemer> and learned a lot
<nhaines> It isn't fun, and that's why we all appreciate your efforts all the more!
<jderemer> i want to thank you guys for your help :)
<jderemer> what happened to laser though?
<crimsun> "life."
<jderemer> ah
<crimsun> (he has been under some pressure with school, Ubuntu involvement, etc.)
<jderemer> ahh
<jderemer> wanted to make sure my drama fest didnt cause it
<jderemer> ...
<jderemer> would hate that
<crimsun> no, it has been brewing for quite some time.  Your work isn't at all related.
<jderemer> well im off work now
<jderemer> somehow i got paid to do all that :)
<jderemer> hah
<norsetto> jderemer: <mafia hat on>we know who you are and where you live in any case<mafia hat off>
<jderemer> oh noes!
<jderemer> time to move to another country!
<jderemer> bye guys
<nhaines> haha
<ajmitch> norsetto: hm?
<norsetto> ajmitch: saying "ok, bye" certainly didn't reduce his blood pressure
<ajmitch> norsetto: I was still talking to him after that, we've been chatting a bit lately :)
<ajmitch> I'm fairly sure that he wouldn't have taken it in a bad way
<norsetto> ajmitch: so, thats where he learned about drama ;-)
<ajmitch> norsetto: wasn't me
 * ajmitch is innocent again
<proppy> ++
<bobbo> is someone around to check the latest upload of 'torrentinfo' on REVU? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=torrentinfo)
<norsetto> bobbo: just giving it a glance
<bobbo> norsetto: thanks :)
<norsetto> bobbo: is there anything interesting in README?
<bobbo> norsetto: usage info, where to report bugs upstream, etc.
<norsetto> bobbo: usage info would be the same stuff as in the man page I guess?
<bobbo> norsetto: yes
<norsetto> bobbo: do you think an end user needs to read this file?
<bobbo> norsetto: they dont *need* to read it, but i think it could be useful to have around
<bobbo> norsetto: no problem to remove it though :)
<norsetto> bobbo: looks useless to me
<norsetto> bobbo: did you test the watch file?
<bobbo> norsetto: im not sure how to test the watch file
<pochu> uscan --verbose from debian/..
<norsetto> bobbo: well, it doesn't work. Just do an "uscan --verbose" at the top of the source tree
<bobbo> woops, sorry
<norsetto> bobbo: /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL points to the GPL-3 on hardy/intrepid
<norsetto> bobbo: in copyright, there is an extra space after Upstream Authors: and Copyright:
<norsetto> bobbo: lots of blank spaces in the man page too
<norsetto> bobbo: in the man page, you miss some options in the synopsis
 * bobbo is frantically fixing :)
<norsetto> bobbo: the SECTION in your man page should really be 1
<bobbo> norsetto: still trying to work out the watch file :/
<norsetto> bobbo: take your time
<norsetto> bobbo: section net? I would say utils
<bobbo> norsetto: hehe, i spent *ages* toiling over the section when i first wrote debian/control
<norsetto> bobbo: we all do :-)
<norsetto> bobbo: to tell you the truth this is misc or even python after all (Debian would use python here "its a python script" ...)
<GordonC> Hello
<norsetto> bobbo: you should version cdbs to (>= 0.4.49)
<norsetto> bobbo: is python-distutils.mk actually needed?
<bobbo> norsetto: it runs setup.py which actually installs it, afaik
<norsetto> bobbo: yes, its needed
<bobbo> norsetto: got most of what you said done, still not quite getting the watch file though
<norsetto> bobbo: let me finish and I'll check it out
<bobbo> norsetto: ok, thanks :)
<norsetto> bobbo: for the description, what about this (from README):
<norsetto> TorrentInfo parses .torrent files and displays information about the torrent
<norsetto> and the files that it references.
<bobbo> norsetto: i have to go to bed (school in the morning :/) Could you help me sort out some more of it tomorrow?
<norsetto> bobbo: sure
<bobbo> norsetto: thanks for the help so far :)
<bobbo> night
<norsetto> bobbo: thanks to you, good night
<nhaines> Frankly, I was a bit afraid of packaging, and figured I'd have a bit of an uphill struggle when I tried to get my package into Ubuntu.  I feel somehow that packaging documentation is lacking, but I know once you learn it it's pretty routine, so I was intimitated knowing I'd make a lot of simple mistakes.
<nhaines> But seeing the responses on my package at REVU and in here, I'm really impressed with the kindness.
<norsetto> mok0: looks like I was framed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mok0NewPackageSponsors
<norsetto> nhaines: wait until we present the bill ...
<nhaines> lol :)
<mok0> norsetto: Oh, yes, I prepared that for my MOTU application...
<norsetto> jazzva: I knew we forgot something ... the date in the man pages AARRGGHHH
<Jazzva> norsetto: Damn... Should I submit a patch for it?
<Jazzva> Or, can it wait next man page update?
<norsetto> jazzva: no, but we better remember it next time :-)
<Jazzva> (since it is a relatively small change)
<Jazzva> Ok... I'll add it to my general to-do list :)
<Jazzva> norsetto: BTW, since gecko-mediaplayer is uploaded, can I submit that SRU for Depends (firefox -> firefox-3.0 | firefox-2)?
<norsetto> jazzva: sure, it was accepted for mozilla-mplayer, so there is no reason this should not be accepted for gecko-mediaplayer
<Jazzva> norsetto: Great... I'll prepare a SRU bug report now... Fix is already done
<norsetto> jazzva: great, thx ... have you talked with asac about it btw? If it makes sense to have it in the extensions team?
<Jazzva> norsetto: Oh, I forgot that :). I talked with him and he said that mozilla-extensions-dev should be only for extension-maintaining. We can provide assistance with firefox and packaging if needed, but he thinks it would be good if it can stay in the MOTU realm. Or, it can be moved to mozillateam, if needed :).
<Jazzva> (since extensions and plugins are different and stuff)
<norsetto> Jazzva: ok, I understand
<Jazzva> norsetto: BTW, do you need a co-maintainer for those two packages? I'd be glad to help out with them :).
<norsetto> Jazzva: I'd be glad if you want to help
<Jazzva> norsetto: Good... I'll assign myself on LP as a bug contact, if that's ok with you. I'll also check periodically if there are updates upstream (or sign up on a mailing list, if they have one)
<norsetto> jazzva: sure, go on
<Jazzva> Thanks :)
<norsetto> Jazzva: thx to u
<Jazzva> np :)
<norsetto> g'night all
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-15
<Laibsch> I changed my mail address for packages I prepare for ubuntu and debian
<Laibsch> Can somebody please update my account?
<Laibsch> Where can I send the new pgp key?
<wgrant> Laibsch: What account?
<Xsploit> :D:D
<saivann> Hi, I would need a MOTU to ack and upload my debdiff in intrepid for bug #230350 for gnucash
<saivann> Debdiff is here : http://upload.leservicetechnique.com/bugs/debdiff_for_gnucash_bug230350
<ubottu> saivann: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
<no0tic> saivann, attach the debdiff to the bug report
<no0tic> saivann, subscribe (not assign!) ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug report and set it as confirmed
<no0tic> if you haven't already
<saivann> no0tic : Are you sure, there is a lot of packages which are affected so I don't want to pollute that bug report, unless you really believe that it's ok
<no0tic> saivann, I don't _really_ believe, I just started helping in here
<no0tic> saivann, I told you only what I read on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<saivann> no0tic : Thanks! Well your suggestion might be right, I will wait a few minutes to see if a MOTU want to take the request before uploading the debdiff
<saivann> :)
<willwill> I run this command, sudo pbuilder --build ttf-f0nt-thai_0.1-1.dsc --buildresult ../debs and ls ../debs found nothing
<willwill> http://whsgroup.ath.cx/~whs/willwillBot2/bin/4 here is the pbuilder output
<ScottK2> Lovely.  Install OS X 10.5 and then get 341MB of updates.  Thank goodness for broadband.
<bddebian> So don't install an OS from an Evil Organization :)
<ScottK2> It's not on my computer.  It's my wife's.
<ScottK2> You find me a good Linux equivalent to Final Cut and we'll talk.
<ScottK2> It was really weird walking into a store and buying software in a box.
<ScottK2> It's literally been years since I've done it.
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK2> I did have the Apple sales drone pretty well convinced to try dual booting Ubuntu by the time I left.
<bddebian> I actually use Windows so I don't have much room to talk, I just happen to find Apple more Evil than Microsoft
<ScottK2> Oh.  Interesting.
<ScottK2> How's that?
<bddebian> iPhone/iPod/ now they are basically PCs
<bddebian> iTunes
<ScottK2> I guess I call that sucess.  I miss where they illegally leveraged an ill gotten monopoly.
<bddebian> Haha, so Apple is successful while MS is evil?
<ScottK2> Yes.  The widespread use of Windows/Office/etc isn't what makes MS evil.
<ScottK2> It's the way they got that way and the way they try to maintain the position.
<ScottK2> Not that I think Apple are saints or anything, just not in the same class.
<bddebian> Heh, OK, if you say so man. :)
<ScottK2> Another point: I don't see any Apple press releases making threats based on unnamed patents they claim are in "Linux".
<ScottK2> Personally I consider reliance on any proprietary software for my business as a business risk I don't care to take, but there are nuances among them.
<ScottK2> Anyone from motu-sru want to give me a thumbs up on a Hardy SRU for Bug #229646?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229646 in spamassassin "spamassassin chokes when using PostgreSQL as Bayes store" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229646
<ScottK2> There's now what looks like a good test case in the comments.
<ScottK2> Cr@p.  More updates to install.
<jdong> ScottK2: I'm living through the week knowing my last paper is due tomorrow and I don't have to regenerate any more cryptographic keys.
<jdong> one baby step at a time....
<ScottK2> I got all the keys done yesterday.
<ScottK2> This is getting OS X 10.5 and Final Cut Express on my wife's Mac (Mother's day present).
<jdong> ScottK2: ah, cool :)
<jdong> ScottK2: is this a Mother's day present or a "Mother's day present"
<jdong> :)
<jdong> I wouldn't expect you to be a mac dude though ;-)
 * ScottK2 isn't.
<ScottK2> Not since 1997.
<ScottK2> I was a Mac dude before I ever used Windows.
<ScottK2> Actually it was 1996.
<jdong> they're good at doing what Apple wants you to do with them...
<jdong> I think that's the best description I can give for them
<ScottK2> Yes, but with OS X, there's BSD under the hood and you can do other cool stuff if you are up for the true Unix experience.
<ScottK2> So it's that and more.
<ScottK2> It used to be said of Macs that everything was either simple or impossible.
<ScottK2> Now it's either simple or you have to know something about Unix.
<jdong> ScottK2: it's nice and UNIXy as long as you don't have any want to customize the kernel or core services
<jdong> ScottK2: while it's somewhat mysteriously open source even basic documentation on where DNS server configuration is stored is extremely sketchy
<jdong> so it's either simple or you have to know someone who is a true Mac geek :)
<ScottK2> So far she's good with the simple stuff, so I haven't had to delve.
<jdong> cool
<jdong> macports is pretty nice for bringing a good subset of FOSS apps onto the mac for power users
<ScottK2> Last year I was at a big meeting at Ironport (big anti-spam company now owned by Cisco) and the two consultants in the room had Linux (me with Kubuntu and the other guy had Ubuntu).  The engineers ALL had Macs.  The VP had a windows laptop and the engineers taunted him about it.
 * ScottK2 waves at milli.
<jdong> ScottK2: cool :). My experience with macs and OS X have generally been positive except for a dissatisfaction when I've wanted to dig deeper but quickly found myself in undocumented territory
<ScottK2> That was the moment I really felt Windows was dead, MS just hasn't noticed.
<ScottK2> jdong: You're on motu-sru right?
<jdong> ScottK2: yes sir
<ScottK2> Please give me a thumbs up on a Hardy SRU for Bug #229646.  See the test case in the comments (I'll pretty it up).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229646 in spamassassin "spamassassin chokes when using PostgreSQL as Bayes store" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229646
<ScottK2> jdong: ^^
<jdong> ScottK2: commented
<ScottK2> jdong: Thanks.  I'll see about getting it uploaded tomorrow.
 * milli waves back at ScottK2 
<ScottK2> Final Cut Express is installed and runs, so I can go to bed now.  Good night all.
<bddebian> Gnight ScottK2
 * milli has both a Stinkpad running Ubuntu *and* a Macbook, so no both sides
<milli> know even
<milli> wait a sec... ScottK2 got the wife a Mac??  Good move.  My wife got an iMac for xmas.
<ScottK2> She got it herself a couple of years ago.  I know zip about modern Macs, but I'm still tech support.
<milli> wait a sec... is this #macosx ?  ;-)
<ScottK2> She's anxious to get off of Windows entirely now, so we should be a Windows free household soon (It'll be Kubuntu for her main desktop).
<milli> nice
<milli> I can recommend iWork as an Office replacement.  More polished than OpenOffice.
<slangasek> technically we're not a Windows-free household, I have an old work laptop with a copy installed
<slangasek> but other than Windows being leveraged to overthrow Microsoft, we've been Windows-free for quite some time ;)
 * milli is now happy with a mostly-stable hardy upgrade of the primary laptop this week.  There was some pain.
<ScottK2> Our kid's PC dual boots to Windows, but that should be a thing of the past soon too.  I got WINE and iTunes 7 working together at least briefly on Hardy, so the end is in sight there too.
<milli> Windows for me is relegated to a virtual machine (VMware, since I have a license), for running Quicken, and for access to IE 6 and 7 for dev work
 * ScottK2 has IE6 with crossover.
<milli> ScottK2: kvm ?
<milli> or is the machine too old
<milli> Hmm, will have to chat with you about that (IE6 w/crossover)
<slangasek> full virtualization is usually not the best solution if what you're looking for is Windows app integration in your desktop
<ScottK2> milli: The machine is on Dapper still.
<ScottK2> I'm waiting until after UDS to try Dapper - Hardy on it.
<milli> I meant hardware too old (no virtualization support in the CPU that kvm needs)
<ScottK2> Ah.
<ScottK2> Haven't looked
<ScottK2> What's too old.  IIRC it's a Pentium IV something.
<milli> that's prolly too old, for kvm
<ScottK2> I've got parts for another one I've been meaning to build ...
<milli> I've only got one machine that can run kvm, and it's just over a year old (AM2+ socket)
<ScottK2> I only know about hardware at the moment I'm deciding what to buy.  As soon as I buy it, I pretty well can't remember what it is.
 * ScottK2 really does need to get to be, so good night.
<milli> gnite
<dholbach> good morning
<nhaines> Good morning, dholbach!
<dholbach> hi nhaines
<slomo> siretart: ok, so the gst-ffmpeg build failure on ppc is probably caused by altivec stuff... it builds fine on my machine which has altivec but fails on the buildd which (probably) does not have altivec
<\sh> slomo, you are the mono expert ;)
<\sh> slomo: what's the correct way of resolving deprecated widgets which results in mono gtk compile errors?
<\sh> slomo, for older gtk releases it was to enable the deprecated compile switch...but I'm not sure for mono crack :)
<slytherin> \sh: The right way should be to patch sources to use non-deprecated widgets. :-P
<\sh> slytherin, yes ;) means kick upstream ;)
<slytherin> \sh: or first prepare a patch then kick upstream
<\sh> slytherin, I don't know anything about mono/.net crap...and if there is something like GTK_ENABLE_DEPRECATED_FOO=1 as we had during gutsy imho for older gtk sources which were not fixed in time to use new world order...it's easier to prepare this and make this work
<slytherin> \sh: Even I am not aware of it much, let me see if I can find out.
<slytherin> \sh: Can you point me to build failure?
<directhex> what's the app, and which gtk# version does it want to use?
<\sh> slytherin, I'll have to check my build logs...give me a moment
<proppy> oy
<directhex> the gtk# packages in hardy/intrepid should deal with any widgets which are part of gtk# versions 2.4 to 2.12, so it must be a pretty old app if that's insufficient
<siretart> slomo: gst-ffmpeg in intrepid or in debian?
<slomo> siretart: debian
<slomo> siretart: the experimental one
<siretart> slomo: hm. not nice. what would you suggest beside disabling altivec?
<slomo> siretart: disable altivec for now until it's fixed ;) or i'll simply upload a handbuild ppc binary later :P
<\sh> slytherin, http://archive.linux-server.org/logs/muine_0.8.8-1ubuntu1_20080513-1327
<slytherin> \sh: which app is this? I can try patching it, if Gtk.Tooltips is the only deprecated api in use.
<\sh> slytherin, muine
<\sh> slytherin, it's the actual to be merged version
<\sh> slytherin, if you are more experienced with it, please take muine merge :)
<slytherin> \sh: So you are trying merge and getting the problem?
<\sh> slytherin, yes
<slytherin> \sh: let me try, I will get back in an hour
<\sh> slytherin, no hurry :)
 * \sh is busy setting up the development system for the company on the esx server
<siretart> slomo: could you please check with the ppc porter how to proceed with this? uploading packages that don't built on debian infrastructure is guaranteed to annoy the security team
<directhex> GAH!
<directhex> \sh, you're being mislead - it's not the gtk.tooltips obsoletion that's causing it to fail. that's only a warning
<directhex> ./PlaylistWindow.cs(179,25): error CS0104: `VolumeButton' is an ambiguous reference between `Gtk.VolumeButton' and `Bacon.VolumeButton'
<\sh> directhex, yeah..
<\sh> well, the source is broken anyways ;)
<directhex> well, yes#
<directhex> building against mono 1.2.6? intrepid hasn't picked up 1.9.1 from debian yet?
<directhex> hah! you'll love this, \sh. the actual builld failure is highlighted in red if you build it on a real console. it;'s the ambiguous ref line
<\sh> directhex, the merge needs to done in main it seems
<\sh> directhex, I disabled all colors...and sbuild doesn't show it during build
<slytherin> \sh: any idea why debian maintainers switched form simple-patchsys to quilt? :-(
<laga> hey directhex :)
<\sh> slytherin, never ask me about such things...it's somehow changing every now and then ;)
<directhex> laga, HELO!
<directhex> \sh, 2-line patch fixes it. it should be Bacon.VolumeButton instead of VOlumeButton in 2 places
<directhex> dpkg-deb: building package `muine' in `../muine_0.8.8-1_amd64.deb'.
<\sh> directhex, go for it
<directhex> \sh, here we go. http://monoport.com/11637
<directhex> \sh, stick it in a debian/patches/ entry, and it should build
<\sh> directhex, name next to your whois info is accurate? :)
<directhex> \sh, yes!
<\sh> directhex, thx...need to know it for the changelog ;)
<\sh> slytherin, stop working ;)
<directhex> ambiguous references are a schoolboy error though. silly muine devs.
<slytherin> \sh: Yes, stopped. I was about to tell you same thing, but got busy with colleague discussing some bug.
<\sh> slomo, do you have powers for tasks for bug #117726
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 117726 in muine "muine crashes on adding music to the playlist" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117726
<\sh> slomo, ubuntu mono team ;)
<directhex> ooh, i joined that yesterday. it looked warm & inviting
<\sh> directhex, are you able to approve the tasks?
<\sh> somehow I'm not permitted...*strange*
<directhex> probably not
<\sh> directhex, there you go..you are famous now ;)
<directhex> sexy. i might be in the mythtv chaneglot too somewhere
<directhex> laga probably remembers better than me
<gaspa> doko: do you have a moment? i've a question on python-iplib package...ï»¿
<directhex> could be worse. i'm building some ia64 sles10 rpms right now
<doko> never touched the python-iplib package afaik
<gaspa> ï»¿mm
<gaspa> ï»¿-- Matthias Klose <doko@ubuntu.com>  Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:59:53 +0100
<gaspa> perhaps you only sposored that.
<gaspa> ï»¿anyway, my issue is:  i see that someone modify all "#!/usr/bin/env python" in "#!//usr/bin/python" in rules.
<gaspa> it's more policy compliant, i know. But i'm wondering if it's worth making a "ubuntu1" version and not syncing instead...
<slytherin> gaspa: I think if it was done by someone before you, better keep it that way. But I am not a developer so you may want to take advice of some MOTU
<gaspa> slytherin: in fact... i'm a bit confused, cause i don't see a real reason to do a merge, but i want to trust the "old someone" :D
<emgent> morning
<slytherin> is there any plan to replace grub with grub2 in intrepid?
<Jazzva> norsetto: Prepared SRU for gecko-mediaplayer. bug 230662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230662 in gecko-mediaplayer "gecko-mediaplayer depends on firefox metapackage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230662
<norsetto> jazzava: yes, was just looking at it, have you subscribed motu-sru?
<norsetto> jazzva: yes, was just looking at it, have you subscribed motu-sru?
<Jazzva> No, I was just about to ask you about the procedure for the bug statuses...
<norsetto> Jazzva: leave it new, they will eventually confirm it once its acked
<Jazzva> norsetto: Subscribed. I wasn't sure if I should set the bug status to Confirmed, as in the other bug fixes.
<Jazzva> ok
<norsetto> Jazzva: after its acked, subscribe u-u-s to have the fix sponsored to hardy-proposed
<Jazzva> norsetto: Ok. I will...
<norsetto> Jazzva: both steps may take some time, it could be a good idea to ping somebody in both teams after a while
<norsetto> jazzva: I would actually improve the changelog, adding the reason we make this change (otherwise archive admins can reject it)
<Jazzva> norsetto: I'll add it now.
<laga> i've just added a third debdiff to bug #221921 to fix debian/changelog. maybe someone from motu-sru can take a quick look again (if needed)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221921 in mythbuntu-control-centre "SRU: progress bar oddities break creation of diskless clients" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221921
<Hobbsee> oh dear.  another good MOTU gone
<ScottK> Hopefully he'll quit as well as I did.
<StevenK> Hobbsee?
<ScottK> I assume she'd referring to laserjock's sabattical mail.
<StevenK> Ahh
<ScottK> she'd/she's
<Hobbsee> yes
<\sh> ScottK, you quit?
<ScottK> Can't you tell?
<ScottK> I pulled back at the start of the Hardy cycle, but it didn't last.
<\sh> ScottK, ah...you quit your ubuntu holiday...
<ScottK> I essentially said there are 3 things that make me need to pull back.  Then 2 of 3 got reasonably well resolved, so I un-pulled back.
<pochu> could somebody from motu-sru look at bug 208097?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 208097 in python-aptsources "FTBFS in Hardy due to python-distutils-extra changes" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208097
<ScottK> pochu: I don't think there's any point in worrying about fixing it.  It's an unused package that's been removed from Intrepid.
<ScottK> Note: I'm not motu-sru
<pochu> ScottK: yeah, but the patch is already there so it's wether we want to fix it or not
<pochu> and since the binary is still there, perhaps we want to
<pochu> s/wether/whether/
<ScottK> pochu: If you want to SRU FTBFS, I think there are more important ones to do.
<ScottK> You certainly aren't going to have a big user base to get testers from.
<ScottK> pochu: Want to do my Spamasassain SRU?
<pochu> not really :P
<ScottK> OK.
<pochu> I was bored and wanted to see if I could fix it since it was distutils. I don't really care if it reaches the archive TBH
<ScottK> Understand.
<ScottK> pochu: You could go fix Yum.  That's broken and written in Python.
<ScottK> It's been broken for at least two releases now.
<\sh> YUM is broken since AGES ! ;)
<pochu> lol
<pochu> what's up with it?
<pochu> I mean, what's broken?
<pochu> (bbl)
<ScottK> pochu: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-May/004258.html
<ScottK> Although that's one that might stand removal in conjunction with an entry in command-not-found pointing at apt.
<ScottK> \sh: You're familiar with RPM tools.  Is there any point in having yum in the archive?
<\sh> ScottK, well, no...smart can take over yum in most ways
<\sh> ScottK, I wonder how fedora depends on yum, the last known workable version for me was yum with python2.3... and even that was broken in some ways
<\sh> ScottK, so yes, we can get rid of yum, and pushing smart as yum replacement
<ScottK> \sh: I guess I'm a little confused about why we'd want RPM management tools on Ubuntu.  It seems risky to mix RPM and .deb packages on the same box.
<broonie> Does yum have server side stuff in it as well?
<\sh> ScottK, depends...yum in general is only to see as apt-get replacement for RPM stuff...so it can be dangerous...
<ScottK> \sh: So removal of that sounds prudent.  Why would we want smart?
<ScottK> \sh: I think yum is still the current tool in SuSE.
<\sh> ScottK, smart can deal with all sorts of package repositiories...apt-get, apt4rpm, rpm-md ones etc.
<\sh> ScottK, nope
<\sh> ScottK, in fedora yes
<ScottK> OK.
<\sh> ScottK, the current tool in suse is zypper
<ScottK> Ah.  OK.
<ScottK> So yum sounds like an excellent removal candidate.
<slytherin> broonie: no
<ScottK> pochu: In Bug #230340, is there a reason you didn't also subscribe the archive?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230340 in python-numpy "Please sync python-numpy 1.0.4-6ubuntu3 (universe) from Debian unstable 1.0.4-8 (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230340
<ikonia> is BitchX not in the hardy repo's, if not I'm going to package it now
<ikonia> I had a fesity package but I didn't submit it as it was already in the repo
<ScottK> ikonia: I think it was removed for being buggy/insecure or something (not sure).  I'd suggest researching why it was removed before expending time preparing a package.
<ikonia> ScottK: thats an excellent call, when I was about to submit it for fesity, I had bad language patches made which was the main issue
<ikonia> ScottK: where would I find the removal information ?
<ikonia> I can't see anything on launchpad
<ikonia> (I assume thats teh obvious place)
<\sh> ikonia, bitchx is removed in debian and ubuntu
<\sh> ikonia, since feisty or gutsy...I asked for it in debian and ubuntu
<ScottK> ikonia: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt
<ikonia> ahh, thank you
<\sh> since gutsy then
<\sh> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ircii-pana <- only lasts for gutsy
<directhex> afternoon ikonia
<\sh> ikonia, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ircii-pana/+bug/162870 <--
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 162870 in ircii-pana "Removal of ircii-pana" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ikonia> yes, I've just seen that
<ikonia> drat
<ikonia> afternoon directhex
<\sh> ikonia, ircii-pana is unmaintained the last time I checked...and has several security issues...no need to repackage it...use irssi or something else more sane
<directhex> i remember some fun bitchx bugs. i'm sure i remember seeing some remote code execution from maliciously crafted utf-8 when i was an undergrad
<ikonia> \sh: it still is unmaintained, some of the older security stuff I'd patched, and some of these patches where coming back to haunt me, hence why I thought of re-packaging it and dumping it back into ubuntu
<\sh> ircii-pana was ok in the nineties :)
<ikonia> directhex: yes the UTF8 stuff was one of the things Jim Gifford plugged
<\sh> ikonia, no...instruct people to not use bitchx again...it was a pain in the past and it will be a plague now ;)
<directhex> ikonia, you could make a new package which behaves a bit like the "sl" package
<directhex> except with a big screaming face going "noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"
<ikonia> directhex: or I could just park the idea and repond to people who ask about the patches I did saying "sorry - they are dead"
<ikonia> I like that idea better
<mok0> Any SRU members here?
<pochu> ScottK: I forgot, thanks for that. Just done it now
<ScottK> pochu: Great.  Thanks for looking after it.
<slytherin> can anyone please ack merge for oggconvert - bug 230268
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230268 in oggconvert "Please merge version 0.3.1-3 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230268
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sebner> hihi siretart
<sebner> hihi sistpoty|work
<directhex> someone should really merge mono at some point. it's a little stale.
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<slytherin> directhex: surprisingly the merge report says there are not many conflicts, so the merge should be easy
<siretart> hi sebner, hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi siretart
<directhex> slytherin, there aren't many conflicts. i'm already building it for hardy in my ppa.
<siretart> directhex: thanks for volunteering to merge mono!
<directhex> siretart, okay, where do i click?
<siretart> click?
<siretart> merge the package, present the result in a lp bug
<mok0> persia: shall I add the emblems to the MC reporting page?
<persia> mok0: No.  Those don't belong on the reporting page, firstly because it's properly a UC/MOTU decision, and secondly because a decision and implementation is not completed.
<persia> Perhaps MOTU/Teams/emblems?
 * mok0 looks
<persia> Actually, MOTU/Teams/Emblems might be a better URL, just for consistency (and no, that page doesn't exist yet)
<mok0> persia: Ah, a non-existing page.. :-)
<persia> mok0: Consider it a blank canvas, waiting for addition :)
<mok0> persia: I can put them there, and copy-paste my email to you
<slytherin> persia: I am about to file 'multiverse -> universe' bugs for glassfish and libdb-je-java. glassfish uses openjdk to build and libdb-je-java uses java-gcj-compat-dev Any comments?
<persia> mok0: That'd be great!  I think a couple other people were also interested, so sending a note to ubuntu-motu@ asking for comments / competition might help, and we can decide on the 30th.
<mok0> persia: ok, sounds good! I guess these emblems are pretty generic anyway, and could be used/reused for anything
<persia> slytherin: I thought glassfish still had some files under non-free licenses, but haven't looked closely.  I'm not that familiar with libdb-je-java.  Is it repacked derby, or something else?
<slytherin> persia: libdb-je-java - Oracle Berkeley Database Java Edition. About glassfish, Iwill check if there is any other reason than that 'it is in contrib in Debian'
<persia> slytherin: OK.  Also consider the version of glassfish.  I lost track near the end of hardy, but I think for intrepid we only want V2.
<slytherin> persia: For some reason I think the whole glassfish packaging has become a mess. The one I am referring here is the old one and has rdepends libdb-je-java, which in turn has rdepends lucene2
<slytherin> anyway Iwill do some more debugging and then file bugs
<persia> slytherin: Good luck, and thank you.
<slytherin> persia: any chance you can find some time to review xml-commons-external - bug 177158. I hope I have addressed all comments
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 177158 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xml-commons-external" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177158
<persia> slytherin: Exceedingly unlikely until at least Monday, and fairly unlikely until the following Sunday :(
<slytherin> persia: No issues. I just want to get this package in withing a month or so so that I can start working on batik 1.7 :-)
<emgent> heya people
<sebner> mok0: are these icons for the universe-contributors?
<mok0> sebner: that's what I had in mind, yes
<mok0> sebner: given that there ain't one
<mok0> sebner: I also considered a thinking hat, but it's hard to fit on 14x14 pixels :-P
<Iulian> Is there any problems if we fix some lintian warnings too - bug #230350 ?
<ubottu> Iulian: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
<mok0> bug 230350
<ubottu> mok0: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
<Iulian> mok0: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/londonlaw/+bug/230350
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230350 in libwoodstox-java "Missing Debian Maintainer field" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ScottK> Iulian: That's probably more useful than fixing the maintainer.
<mok0> Iulian: generally, you want to keep the delta as small as possible
<Iulian> ScottK: That's what I thought, thanks.
<Iulian> mok0: Indeed
<mok0> arghh konqueror crashed... again...
<mok0> both FF3 and konqeror (kde4) are actually pretty flaky on hh
<ScottK> FF2 packages are in the repository.
<mok0> ScottK: yeah...
<emgent> DktrKranz: o/
<DktrKranz> hey emgent
<norsetto> [[ ]]
<norsetto> dbug: 480543
<norsetto> http://bugs.debian.org/480543
<norsetto> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=italy
<directhex> hmmm...
<ScottK> \sh: libetpan has a soname jump in Debian.  Would you take care of rebuilding claws-mail after I get it synced?
<\sh> ScottK, yes
<\sh> ScottK, just give me the "go" and I'll start
<ScottK> \sh: Great.  I'm testing now, but I'm sure it'll be fine.  It'll need to go through binary New, so it'll be a while.
<\sh> ScottK, hopefully debian will catch it before it went through new...and we can sync again?
 * \sh 's waiting for new claws features ;)
<ScottK> I think they'd just binNMU, so we wouldn't see it.
<\sh> ok...pushing XbuildY style packages ;)
<\sh> alleeHol, again holidays? ;)
<directhex> hmm, this definitely doesn't like building in pbuilder
<norsetto> http://bugs.debian.org/ 480543
<directhex> i wonder if it's a pbuilder issue or an intrepid issue. time to dust off the chroot stuff
<sebner> mok0: lol. A friend of mine is also going to design something. what about a fist(MOTU) without fingers ^^
<mok0> sebner: I'd prefer free-floating fingers without fist :-)
<sebner> huhu norsetto :)
<pochu> directhex: if you pastebin the error we could have a look at it ;)
<norsetto> huhu sebner
<sebner> mok0: hmm not that funny ^^
<mok0> Yay, happy hour in #ubuntu-motu
<directhex> pochu, http://monoport.com/11683
 * norsetto thinks an iron ball and chain should do as a logo for universe contributors
<sebner> norsetto: slaves of motu?
<\sh> directhex, to which lib does the ARG_MAX const belong? ;)
<norsetto> sebner: exactly. btw, can you fan a bit faster, its getting stank in here?
<\sh> S&M -> Slave and Motu ;)
<pochu> directhex: does it build fine in Hardy? It may be a gcc-4.3 issue
<sebner> norsetto: lÃ¶l. yeah master
<directhex> pochu, ah, yes, it might be. it DOES build in hardy
<directhex> pochu, i'm about to try a build in an intrepic chroot, once i finish making it
<sebner> \sh: is SM also the same in english as in german? you know what i mean ;)
<Ng> how SRU'able is universe?
<\sh> sebner, metallica -> s&m , they knew why they named it ;)
<pochu> directhex: OTOH it's been built fine in Debian with gcc 4.3, e.g. http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?&pkg=mono&ver=1.9.1%2Bdfsg-1&arch=arm&stamp=1209006540&file=log
<sebner> \sh: hrhr
<norsetto> Ng: bug number?
<Ng> norsetto: well, this isn't about one particular bug, I'm just curious how much lattitude I have to update my package
<Ng> norsetto: although #230745 is a good candidate, I think :)
<\sh> directhex, but not on i386 as I can see
<norsetto> bug 230743
<ubottu> norsetto: Bug 230743 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/230743 is private
<norsetto> bug 230745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230745 in terminator "no graceful handling of empty fork command" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230745
<\sh> argl...it's all about ports ;)
<\sh> directhex, http://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=i386&pkg=mono no ways with 1.9.1 ;)
<norsetto> Ng: what has a fork command to do with terminals?
<sebner> \sh: I like the maybe-successful
<\sh> sebner, hehe...:)
<Ng> norsetto: when you start a terminal, it forks your shell so you can run commands
<directhex> \sh, is the search tool broken? there are definitely i386 packages
<\sh> directhex, binUploads eventually?
<norsetto> Ng: ok, and what is the purpose of running an empty shell?
<sebner> directhex: you may want to wait for slomo. he is the mono guy :)
<Ng> norsetto: none, it means you fork nothing, so your terminal is blank, empty and utterly useless
<\sh> sebner, directhex will become our second mono pro ;)
<sebner> \sh: the more the better ^^
<norsetto> Ng: right, doesn't seem like a critical bug to be fixed to me (distribution wise)
<Ng> norsetto: this is why I asked how much lattitude there is to update universe packages in a stable release
<ScottK> RAOF likes Mono too.
<norsetto> Ng: but don't pay attention to me, we have a team that deals with sru (motu-sru), they can certainly advice you better
<Hobbsee> Ng: have you applied to freenode for cloaks for those who go to prague yet?
<Ng> as upstream for the package, I hope I'm in a fairly good position to say what is worth fixing for a distro that will be in use for 3 years ;)
<Ng> Hobbsee: that would be a question for Spads, I'm not in Prague :)
<Ng> but I'll check
<norsetto> Ng: this should give you an idea: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Hobbsee> Ng: ahhh
<i4x> hugs 4 y'all!!
<\sh> Ng: On Duty Service? ;9
<Hobbsee> woot!   hugs!
<directhex> right, building in a chroot. let's see if it fails
<\sh> for that I love LP...you can find the info you need sometimes faster then on those different debian servers
<Ng> \sh: hmm?
<\sh> or I'm just to stupid
<\sh> Ng, being the admin who stays behind, because it could be that the DC starts to burn ...
<Ng> norsetto: ok, so that makes it sound like there is room to fix things
<sebner> \sh: +1 for LP, -1 for being stupid
<Ng> \sh: ah. we generally just send 2 sysadmins to a UDS, the rest of us stay working :)
<Ng> I mean working as usual. UDS is lots of work
<\sh> Ng, when you have to work with hotel infrastructure, for sure :)
<directhex> does not compile in a chroot either.
<\sh> directhex, you tried with a sid chroot?
<directhex> \sh, not yet. i hate building chroots
<directhex> \sh, and it's gohometime in a minute
<\sh> directhex, well, I'm waiting for a beer here at our office...the other team has a barbequeue today...so drinks and food for free for old, stressed admins
<norsetto> \sh: a good pils its actually not a bad idea
<directhex> I: Base system installed successfully.
<directhex> right. pick up wife, then look again this evening
<\sh> norsetto, yeah
<james_w> siretart: hi, when you get sometime it would be great if you could upload bzr-builddeb. I have prepared a release at http://alioth.debian.org/pkg-bazaar/bzr-builddeb/trunk/
<ScottK> Dear everyone working on Bug 230350 - I'd enourage you to look at if we still need the Ubuntu diff.  The one package I've looked at didn't.  Instead of fixing the current Ubuntu package, I sync'ed from Debian.  That's a better solution if appropriate for the package.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230350 in libwoodstox-java "Missing Debian Maintainer field" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230350
<greg-g> if someone could help with bug 229489 that'd be great.  The telling log is the last one attached.  \sh mentioned something about timing with the ghc6 package.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229489 in ubuntu "package libghc6-mtl-dev 1.0.1-1 failed to install/upgrade: Package is in a very bad inconsistent state - you should" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229489
<sistpoty|work> greg-g: I'll look into it, just not to sure yet when (maybe during the weekend)
<greg-g> sistpoty|work: thanks a ton.  I'm not sure where to start with it unfortunately
<sistpoty|work> greg-g: well, I'll start looking at the security debdiff... but that's only a gut feeling (gtk2hs isn't the most trivial thing to work on, as it has some weird edges)
<greg-g> sistpoty|work: just fyi, I'll be away from the computer for the next week or so.
<sistpoty|work> greg-g: kk... the missing ghc-pkg is still strange for me, but that should be sufficient to trace what really happened
<RainCT> http://77.210.103.228/revu/details.py?package=pyclamd <- comments please (about the new design for the comments display)
<jdavies> RainCT: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, nic
<jdavies> -e*
<jdavies> RainCT: what do the submit buttons look like? (if changed)
<RainCT> jdavies: the "add a review" part wasn't changed (well, I changed it, but months ago. that was my first contribution to REVU :))
<RainCT> but if you want to try, email: test@example.com  password: passw
 * sistpoty|work heads home now
<sistpoty|work> cya
<RainCT> jdavies: "details of" at the top should be "details for", or?
<jdavies> RainCT: Details for is good
<RainCT> ok (it said "of" 1 minute ago, just changed it)
<Laney> Are these errors ignorable? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12260/
<Laney> s/errors/warnings
<RainCT> ok.. if anybody has comments, I'll ---break---- update REVU now ;)
<jdavies> Laney: does it build without those packages installed?
<Laney> jdavies: Yep
<Laney> I'm just wondering if there's a general policy to eliminate them or not
<pochu> hmm, isn't ~revu-uploaders' icon too similar to ~ubuntu-core-dev's ?
<RainCT> pochu: uhm.. true. I'll change it. any suggestion for a new one?
<Laney> jdavies: So it's OK to leave it?
<pochu> RainCT: maybe one of mok0's, if he agrees :)
<jdavies> Laney: well, I'm surprised /tmp/buildd/btnx-0.4.11/config/missing: line 54: automake-1.10: command not found - doesn't make the build fail
<Laney> jdavies: It comes at this stage in the build process - "config.status: executing depfiles commands"
<Laney> automake doesn't need to be run.
 * RainCT is starting to hate mod_python's catching :P
<RainCT> ok, REVU updated... ping me if it explodes :P
<directhex> more inclined to think this is a gcc 4.3 issue - sid is building against 4.2
<RainCT> pochu: (icon changed)
<directhex> nope. builds fine in sid if i force sid to build with gcc-4.3
<directhex> time to try a 32-bit intrepid chroot
<pochu> RainCT: cheers!
<albert23> directhex: I suspect glibc2.8 may be the cause of your FTBFS. That caused an FTBFS for me as also.
<albert23> directhex: In glibc 2.8 some defines have been made conditional. To set the condition right I had to add -D_GNU_SOURCE to CFLAGS.
<directhex> albert23, interesting. i'll try that.
<directhex> fixed in svn, apparently. trying to find out which changeset
<sebner> huhu mok0
<pochu> RainCT: btw, perhaps you want to change the big icon too ;)
<mok0> huhu sebner
<Iulian> New icon for revu-uploaders?
<emgent> nah, for ubuntu-universe-contributors
<mok0> Iulian: I think it would be good...
<Iulian> emgent: There is a new one for revu-uploaders too.
<Iulian> mok0: It's better than the old one.
<mok0> Iulian: where?
<Iulian> revu-uploaders
<emgent> oh
<pochu> https://edge.launchpad.net/~revu-uploaders
<Iulian> mok0: Oh, you were talking about the u-u-c?
 * Iulian checks the icon for uuc
<mok0> Iulian: no, I thought r-u still had the hammer
<emgent> Iulian: see motu mailinglist.
<emgent> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Emblems
<Iulian> emgent: I saw it.
<Iulian> mok0: It's better than the hammer because core-devs also have it.
<sebner> mok0: maybe I should vote on it. I'm the only member ^^
<mok0> Iulian: yeah
<mok0> Hmm, now I see it, it's an arrow pointing into a box...
<Iulian> mok0: The difference was that the icon for core-devs was a little bigger than the r-u's icon.
<mok0> Iulian: ah, very appropriate: the devs have a bigger hammer :-)
<Iulian> I was confused when I saw it.
<Iulian> Heh
<pochu> sebner: lol
<mok0> Actually, ubuntu-dev has the symbol of the Masters of the Universe...
<sebner> pochu: only the truth :P
<pochu> mok0: hmm, they have different icons: https://edge.launchpad.net/~motu, https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev
 * Iulian likes ubuntu-devs icon.
<sebner> huhu norsetto
<RainCT> uhm.. pbuilder is evil. my root partition is full and now I see that it's because pbuilder stored all builds (over 5GB!) in /var/cache/pbuilder/build lol
<mok0> pochu: I know, but look at http://www.he-man.org/
<RainCT> pochu: the box looks bad if I make it bigger and I don't know what else to put there :P
<jdong> RainCT: lesson of the day: mount a separate filesystem on /var/cache/pbuilder
<jdong> RainCT: if nothign else, to spare your /var from fragmentation.
<sebner> RainCT: also clean pbuilder/results ^^
<RainCT> heh
<RainCT> sebner: yes that's always empty :)
<jdong> RainCT: is that a good thing to say? ;-)
<jdong> lol
<mok0> pochu: the maltese cross is the symbol of MOTU
<RainCT> I've to reformat some day (my current partion table is crap) but I'm too lazy to configure everything again :P
<RainCT> jdong: lol
<RainCT> jdong: that's of course because I use pbuilder-dist, so the files are in my home ;)
<jdong> RainCT: sure. we believe you. :)
<RainCT> jdong: that's bad ;)
<Laibsch> http://rafb.net/p/3pElf437.html How can that be?  I create the orig-tar ball from the sources myself, but debian complains about unrepresentable changes?  Granted, I am packaging binaries for which there is no source, but ...
<Laibsch> any explanations?
<Laibsch> debuild, not debian
<RainCT> Laibsch: you can't add binary files to the .diff.gz
<RainCT> well, actually you can, but not directly
<laga> wb
<Laibsch> but there is no diff!
<laga> oops
<RainCT> Laibsch: by running debuild you are creating a .diff.gz
<Laibsch> RainCT: I have some stuff under usr/local/arm (an external toolchain I want to package), plus the debian dir with the packaging info
<Laibsch> RainCT: Of course I am, but the stuff in orig.tar.gz and the stuff under usr/ are md5sum identical (of course)
<Laibsch> going by your argument, debuild would choke on all *.png, *.jpg, etc files
<Laibsch> even if unchanged
<ScottK> Laibsch: It will if they are in /debian
 * Laibsch suspects dh_create might have its hand in here
<RainCT> Laibsch: usr/local/arm? that's in debian/<package name>/?
<RainCT> nvm
<Laibsch> http://oss.leggewie.org/wip/sharprom-toolchain-2.95.3/ is what it looks like
 * ryanakca has no clue whats going on, but would uuencode/uudecode be a way to represent binary changes in a package?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ryanakca> Also, I'm trying to merge kdetoys, but there are differences in configure and in configure.in ... Who's version do I take?
<jdong> probably autotools cruft?
<ryanakca> ex: echo "$as_me:10156: \$? = $ac_status" >&5   vs    echo "$as_me:10285: \$? = $ac_status" >&5
<jdong> ryanakca: I think the rule of thumb I'd personally apply here is either pick all of debian or all of Ubuntu's configure.* and you'll be okay.
<ryanakca> ok, thanks
<ryanakca> Would rerunning autotools take care of it?
<jdong> ryanakca: this is a case, (everyone look away), where if it doesn't FTBFS you're probably good.
<ryanakca> jdong: thanks, Another thing, if I'm getting "BAD signature" when running dpkg-source -x foo.dsc , is there anyway to force it to extract?
<Arby> could anybody help me with this diff http://paste.ubuntu.com/12281/
<Arby> it's causing build failures for ktorrent
<Arby> and I can't speak C
<Arby> I've had several attempts and I keep breaking it
<mok0> Arby: is this a merge?
<Arby> mok0: yes
<slangasek> that's C++ btw, not C
<mok0> Arby: you don't want to patch the source code
<Arby> slangasek: I realise that but it's equally foreign to me
<slangasek> ok :)
<mok0> Arby: just use the file from 2.2.6
<Arby> mok0: OK let me try that. It shows up as a conflict is all
<Arby> in the report file
<mok0> Arby: in fact, this looks like an Ubuntu version that appeared in Debian
<mok0> Arby: you may want to ask for a sync
<jdong> ryanakca: I have similar issues with intrepid's dscverify backported to hardy
<jdong> ryanakca: been meaning to ask a bit about that
<Arby> mok0: there are other differences
<Arby> there's still a kubuntu patch that didn't make debian
<Arby>  yet
<sebner> Arby: then merge it ;)
<mok0> right
<mok0> but it may not apply if it's meant for another version
<directhex> dpkg-deb: building package `mono-gac' in `../mono-gac_1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1_all.deb'.
<ryanakca> Can I have a Kubuntu patch depend on a Debian patch? There's the Kubuntu patch that removes a line from 3 files. The Debian patch removes a line from 2 of those 3. Should I make the Kubuntu patch only remove from the one other patch, or do I remove the Debian patch or ?
<ScottK> ryanakca: How about just modifying the Debian patch so there's only one?
<sebner> ryanakca: and reporting the change back to debian
<ryanakca> ScottK: OK, thanks
<norsetto> sebner: re. athcool (bug 230816) why did we drop the dependancy on libz1g-dev and the link with -lz?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230816 in athcool "Please sync athcool 0.3.12-2 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230816
<sebner> norsetto: hmm because it's not necessary anymore. Don't know why now. But I checked and marked it in the last changelog entry that we can make a sync ^^
<norsetto> sebner: well, you better give a reason or I mark it as invalid
<sebner> norsetto: bad boy :P
<sebner> norsetto: IIRC it was to fix a FTBFS
<norsetto> sebner: I don't think so
<sebner> norsetto: let me check again
<norsetto> sebner: pls.
<sebner> norsetto: I have to answer \sh but I'm quite sure that it isn't necessary anymore. *waiting*
<sebner> norsetto: ehh. ask not answer xD
<norsetto> sebner: did you ask him already?
<directhex> done.
<directhex> mono_1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1.dsc
<sebner> norsetto: I said it already ^^. He sponsored my last athcool upload the ubuntu2 thing. I asked him about the zl thing and the result is my changelog entry about the next sync
<norsetto> sebner: do you have a record? an email or irc log? You should have recorded it in your sync request
<sebner> norsetto: I know -.- no stress about it, I'll ask him if he's online again
<RainCT> Laibsch: why do you want usr/local/arm in debian?
<geser> any member of ~motu-sru around?
<RainCT> * debian/
<Laibsch> RainCT: You mean why I want it packaged?
<DktrKranz> geser, for a while...
<Laibsch> Why non-standard /usr/local?
<Laibsch> RainCT: is that your question?
<RainCT> Laibsch: no, my question is why you put that dir there at all
<Laibsch> Pure despair ;-)
<Laibsch> I was trying out why I received errors about local/$something instead of the expected usr/local/$something
<Laibsch> I just really fail to understand why debuild comes up with these alleged changes
 * Laibsch has moved it back
<Laibsch> But the problem occured in both cases
<RainCT> ok, now it makes more sense
<RainCT> Laibsch: so upstream's tarball contains just this usr/ dir?
<Laibsch> yes
<geser> DktrKranz: I've seen that apache2 got uploaded to hardy-proposed. apache2-mpm-itk should also be updated as it has a strict dependency on apache2.2-common (needs a rebuild everytime apache2 gets updated). Does this qualify for a SRU or should we wait if somebody complains?
<Laibsch> RainCT: it is a binary-only cross-compiler tool-chain
<DktrKranz> geser, if it has unmetdeps (as it seems), a rebuild is SRU-worthy
<RainCT> Laibsch: ok. I think the best would be to start creating the packaging from the start to get ride of this error (conserving the debian/* files, of course. there shouldn't be any problem with them)
<RainCT> Laibsch: so. how is your tarball called?
<RainCT> s/your/upstreams
<RainCT> it should be something like <program name>_<version>.orig.tar.gz
<geser> DktrKranz: it will once apache2 moves to hardy-updates (or already now if you have hardy-proposed enabled)
<RainCT> (if it has the form <program name>-<version>.tar.gz rename it to the first one)
<geser> anyone here interested in an easy SRU for apache2-mpm-itk?
<DktrKranz> geser, so, we should probably wait for it to be copied to -updates, but you can proceed when this happens
 * DktrKranz leaves
<RainCT> Laibsch: OK, I see. the tarball is also on that webpage :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: bye bye :P
<Laibsch> RainCT: Yepp
<Laibsch> RainCT: And it should be the correct name, AFAIK
<Laibsch> I created that tar ball
<RainCT> Laibsch: indeed. move it into a clean directory and uncompress it there (tar -xzvf *.tar.gz)
<Laibsch> The upstream tarball has one more directory level which I was trying to get of rid of
<RainCT> Laibsch: and copy the debian/ directory into it
<RainCT> Laibsch: then try: debuild -S -sa
<Laibsch> Basically that is what I did
<RainCT> Laibsch: without touching any of the files that are in the tarball?
<Laibsch> Just a moment
<Laibsch> Yes
<RainCT> strange..
<Laibsch> I said so ;-)
<RainCT> sorry, I'm away for 15 min.
<Laibsch> cu
<Laibsch> RainCT: When you are back, download http://oss.leggewie.org/wip/sharprom-toolchain_2.95.3.orig.tar.gz and http://oss.leggewie.org/wip/sharprom-toolchain.debiandir.tar.bz2
<Laibsch> Untar both of them in a directory named sharprom-toolchain-2.95.3, then try to call debuild
<Laibsch> Over here it leads to http://oss.leggewie.org/wip/sharprom-toolchain.log
<RainCT> re
<RainCT> Laibsch: I can't download http://oss.leggewie.org/wip/sharprom-toolchain_2.95.3.orig.tar.gz, Firefox gives an "content encoding error" if I click on it
<RainCT> :S
<RainCT> uhm.. wget seems to work
<ryanakca> When merging, should I also take care of http://paste.ubuntu.com/12302/ , or do I merge to 2ubuntu1 and then update to 2ubuntu2 with the fixes...
<emgent> heya
<RainCT> ryanakca: into 2ubuntu1, no need to create a second revision to add additional changes
<mok0> hey emgent
<ryanakca> RainCT: ok, and as for 2ubuntu1 vs making the changes into Debian and then merging -3 into Ubuntu?
<RainCT> ryanakca: just list them with different indentation in the changelog (that is, not as a sub-point of the "Merge from Debian unstable" entry)
<RainCT> ryanakca: getting them into Debian is of course preferable
<ryanakca> (without bothering to pass by merging -2 into it
<ryanakca> s/it/Ubuntu/g
<RainCT> Laibsch: ok, found the problem
<Laibsch> nice
<Laibsch> Are you going to let me know?
<Laibsch> Is it about those symlinks?
<ryanakca> aka, do I bother merging -2 if -3 is going will be available within the next few days?
<RainCT> Laibsch: the usr/ package in the .orig.tar.gz should be inside a sharprom-toolchain-2.95.3 directory
<Laibsch> Really?
<Laibsch> OK, I can fix that easily
<RainCT> ryanakca: no, there's no hurry
<Laibsch> Is that it?
<RainCT> Laibsch: yes
 * Laibsch bangs head on table and gives a big THANK YOU to RainCT
<Laibsch> Thanks
<RainCT> heh, no problem :)
<ryanakca> thanks
<sebner> gn8 folks
<ryanakca> Is it possible to run lintian / equivalent on the changelog file? (I got warnings in regards to the file, but I made the mistake of adding things to the current entry before fixing those lines)
<albert23> If Ubuntu made the initial version of a package, and Debian took the Ubuntu package, will we still sync the latest version from Debian? Or will we only take patches from Debian?
<albert23> In this case, syncing would mean the Maintainer, a core-dev, will be replaced by a Debian maintainer group
<directhex> whose version is higher?
<albert23> The Debian version
<directhex> are there any required ubuntu-specific patches?
<ScottK> albert23: Generally we would take the Debian package and sync it unless there was a significant change from the Ubuntu package that wasn't in the Debian one.  Then  we'd do a merge adding in important Ubuntu specific changes.
<ajmitch> it'd also differ if the package was native
<albert23> ScottK: Debian has take all Ubuntu changes, plus an additional fix
<albert23> ajmitch: The package is not native
<ScottK> albert23: Then it sounds like we should just sync it (without looking at specifics).
<albert23> Scottk: so we don't care about the Maintainer?
<ScottK> albert23: No.  That's just for if there are Ubuntu changes.
<albert23> OK, thanks
<ScottK> We're downstream of Debian so should just use their package unchanged if we can.
<wgrant> mok0: Why do people have this idea that developing a new science distribution is a Good Idea?
<mok0> wgrant: heh
<mok0> wgrant: To encourage the use of free software in science
<wgrant> Why not just have some metapackages, rather than maintaining another distro?
<directhex> because Scientific Linux isn't good enough!
<mok0> wgrant: to enable students and researchers to get a working machine with loads of good software quickly
<wgrant> Or we'll have like three dozen distros from different people for different areas of science. This is bad.
<mok0> wgrant: to encourage more scientists to use a free software license and get their software out there and working for others
<mok0> wgrant: I agree but that's not the goal
<wgrant> Both of those can be achieved just by metapackages, or even a custom CD with scienceish tasks if necessary.
<mok0> wgrant: yes I agree
<mok0> wgrant: but we also need some kind of branding, artwork etc.
<wgrant> mok0: Right, like UbuntuStudio, Mythbuntu, and everything else. It's a lot easier to do within Ubuntu.
<mok0> wgrant: The jury is still out on the technical issues
<mok0> wgrant: I may not have understood how edubuntu is made
<wgrant> Edubuntu is in a very different form to how it was in Gutsy.
<wgrant> It's an addon CD.
<mok0> wgrant: ok. Well that is also an option
<wgrant> This might be a good solution, but I'm not sure if they have different artwork.
<mok0> wgrant: we need some funding to get it going
<wgrant> They used to, but I haven't tried it in Hardy.
<wgrant> And funding goes a lot further if you don't have to maintain your own distro infrastructure.
<mok0> If these guys have some money to put into a project that is great news
<mok0> wgrant: exactly. It has to build on what is there, and add as little as possible, but just enough to give the distro a unique branding
<wgrant> Exactly.
<wgrant> I think an Edubuntu-style CD is the best idea.
<wgrant> It looks to still have its own artwork.
<mok0> wgrant: yes
<mok0> wgrant: we installed it on a workstation, it looks really neat
<wgrant> Edubuntu?
<mok0> wgrant: yes
<mok0> really nice wallpapers etc
<mok0> and a nice set of apps in the menus
<wgrant> Yeah.
<wgrant> And it's good because it doesn't replace the set of Ubuntu applications - it augments it.
<mok0> wgrant: yeah. I think we're on the same page :-)
<wgrant> Even better would be the ability to have multiple selectable tasks on that CD.
<mok0> wgrant: ok... I don't know much about tasks, I need to read up on that
<RainCT> good night
<mok0> wgrant: but since there are many fields of science that somewhat overlap, I think it is very relevant
<wgrant> mok0: There are mythbuntu-{frontend,backend} tasks, for example.
<wgrant> (as well as *-desktop)
<mok0> wgrant: ... and this is something that is invoked during installation?
 * wgrant grabs his Edubuntu 8.04 ShipIt addon CD, and checks what it does.
<ajmitch> it's not particularly hard to have packages specifically for branding
<wgrant> mok0: Or post-installation. Synaptic has an option to install tasks.
<mok0> ajmitch: it's not? Good news!
<wgrant> All the derivatives do it.
<ajmitch> there's been a reasonable amount of work put in to make it easy
<mok0> That's really cool, looks like a good way to do it
<ajmitch> things like wallpaper, gdm themes, icons, etc
<mok0> yes, yes, great!
<mok0> It's what we want
<mok0> Is there a writeup on how to do this somewhere?
 * ajmitch looks for a blunt, serrated knife to use on code
<wgrant> 'apt-get source whatever-artwork' should give you a good idea.
<wgrant> Replacing 'whatever' with some derivative.
<mok0> wgrant: ah, ok
<ajmitch> I'd probably just look at various packages in the archive, like ubuntustudio-default-settings
<mok0> I've never gotten as far as to look at how the installation works
<mneptok> oaty
<ajmitch> iirc there's artwork & default-settings, I can't remember what each does
<ajmitch> and the usual -desktop metapackages
<mok0> (I mostly use alternative, due to not having LVM option in std. installer :-( )
<mok0> ajmitch: ... but a metapackage is != task selection, no?
<ajmitch> it depends or recommends a set of packages
<mok0> ... right ... and..?
<wgrant> Um. This Edubuntu CD looks dodgy:
<ajmitch> so what are you trying to achieve?
<wgrant> william@irranat:~$ ls /media/cdrom
<wgrant> å¡æ«æ§æ³?  å¡æ«æ§æ³?  å¡æ«æ§æ³?ç¨»  å¡æ«æ§æ³?ç¨»  å¥æ±¥æ³æ®ã¬±
<mok0> heh
<directhex> wgrant, i've had that happen before when mounting with -t auto
<directhex> wgrant, try with -t iso9660
<soren> mok0: I've not followed the discussion, so I might be missing context, but a meta package is a package whose purpose is to depend on (or suggest or recommend) a set of other packages to ease installation of those packages in one go. Orthogonal to that, we have tasks. A package in the Packages.gz file can have a "TAsks:" field that lists the set of tasks the package belongs to.
<wgrant> directhex: Danke, I'll try that.
<wgrant> directhex: Aha, I didn't need that, but I had some strange ghost mount of the same device from a few weeks ago.
<wgrant> But it wasn't showing any files, just corrupting directory listings from the real device.
<mok0> soren: aha... but that requires all packages to be changed to include the tasks field?
<soren> mok0: The tasks are not set by the packages temselves.
<soren> mok0: They're defined by the seeds.
<mok0> soren: I'm relieved :-)
<directhex> soren, does ubiquity use its own seed format, or d-i seeds?
<mok0> soren: seeds? Sorry for exposing my ignorance here
<soren> mok0: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-seeds
 * mok0 looks
<wgrant> I do like how the Edubuntu addon works.
<mok0> wgrant: ... is that different from the metapackage/tasks/seeds techniques we have discussed?
<wgrant> mok0: I presume it's produced from a list of packages generated by the edubuntu seed.
<mok0> wgrant: ok, sounds good
<mok0> Ah today's a good day, I have learned a lot :-)
<mok0> wgrant: btw, what happened to Fujitsu?
<wgrant> mok0: He got left in Hardy.
<wgrant> I'd been meaning to change for a while.
<wgrant> No particular reason.
<ajmitch> he ran away & grew up a bitter, twisted shade of his former self?
<wgrant> ajmitch: Naturally.
<mok0> hehe
<mok0> I should write the story about my nick down sometime
 * ajmitch has no story
 * directhex has been /me since about 1998
<directhex> god, i feel old now
<slangasek> you feel old because you're 10? >:)
<mok0> directhex: don't worry about it
<directhex> i've done a mono 1.9.1 merge, in theory. waiting for a proof-read before sticking the debdiff anywhere
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-16
<pochu> \o/ we can now schedule rebuilds for Universe packages!
<ajmitch> we can? that's rather useful
<pochu> e.g. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anjuta/2:2.4.1-1/+build/602185
<ryanakca> when modifying a patch, should it be kept under the same name, or should it's number be increased (ex: 12_foo_bar.diff 13_foo_bar.diff)
<pochu> ajmitch: currently in edge, but should be in production with 1.2.5
<pochu> ryanakca: don't change the name
<ryanakca> pochu: thanks
<james_w> ryanakca: the number is to indicate/define the order in which they are applied, rather than the revision or anything.
<ryanakca> james_w: aha :)
<emgent> ScottK: can we backport Wordpress 2.5.1-2ubuntu1 (intrepid) in hardy and gutsy?
<emgent> there are more security fixes and features, if not i will work to fix this security bugs in hardy/gutsy.
<emgent> what do you think about it ?
<emgent> argh big idle
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bbyever> could someone review this merge please? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bygfoot/+bug/226988
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226988 in bygfoot "Please merge bygfoot 2.0.1-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main) " [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jdong> http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/Screenshot-Terminal-1.png
<jdong> whoo!
<jdong> go Apple!
<RoAkSoAx> hi y'all
<\sh> moins
<emgent> heya \sh :)
<\sh> hey emgent...how is the day starting? :)
<emgent> waiting MC response :P
<emgent> for now all good
<emgent> hehehe
 * \sh looks into NEW queue and sees etpan still being in
<mruiz> hi all
<geser> Guten Morgen \sh
<\sh> geser: Guten Morgen :)
<\sh> 7topic German Lessons now for free :)
<mruiz> is there an easy merge waiting for a MOTU hopeful?
<\sh> mruiz, you are free to take any merge with my direct name tag on MoM :) just give me a short message via jabber on which package you work
<\sh> mruiz, jid: sh@linux-server.org
<mruiz> thanks \sh ... I'll work on some packages ;-)
<\sh> mruiz, ruby1.9 is on my radar..so leave that out :)
<mruiz> \sh, sure
<mruiz> \sh, ttyl ;-)
<\sh> ttyl?
<\sh> no package I know of ;)
<mruiz> hahaha
<mruiz> \sh, talk to you later ... ;-)
<mruiz> lol
<\sh> oh I'm old...I really thought ttyl is some package which does some tty line streaming or what
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> it was wierd the first time my dad IM'd me that
<pwnguin> i had to ask him what it meant =(
<geser> http://xkcd.com/424/ :)
<\sh> rotfl
<\sh> good one
<directhex> right then. is \sh about?
 * \sh is online, responding and ready to serve
<directhex> jms@osc-bigmac:~/Projects/packaging$ wc -l mono_1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<directhex> 425 mono_1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1.debdiff
 * \sh @ remote:~ (enter your command) >
<\sh> directhex, push it to a merge bug report, subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors and ping someone with core upload rights ;)
<directhex> \sh, someone already filed a wishlist on a merge. is a new bug neccessary?
<\sh> nope.
<\sh> just attach the debdiff and subscribe the main sponsors team
<\sh> oh and add (LP: #<the bug number>) to the changelog before you generate the debdiff pls
<directhex> gah, damn
<directhex> there we go. and i think the status/assignment are right now too
<sebner> \sh: around? I again need to know why you introduced "  * Patched Makefile to link against zlib (added -lz)
<sebner> " and if it's still necessary ^^
<\sh> sebner, which package?
<sebner> \sh: ah sry, athcool
<\sh> sebner, I#ll have a look...I#m a bit busy right now...give me some mins
<sebner> \sh: no problem. thanks
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<TheMuso> Hello from Fosscamp.
<nxvl> TheMuso: are you here?
<TheMuso> nxvl: yes I am.
<nxvl> awesome
<nxvl> we will meet in some minutes i think
<nxvl> :D
<\sh> sebner, because of a missing build-dep during these days...now it's ok...sync
<TheMuso> nxvl: Lets hope so. You would likely see me before I saw you.
<sebner> \sh: ha, I knew it. I'll log what you've said for norsetto. he doesn't trust me :P
<nxvl> heh
<\sh> where is he?
<nxvl> :D
<TheMuso> nxvl: I am actually serious, since I have a vision impairement.
<sebner> \sh: norsetto?
<\sh> yes
<nxvl> TheMuso: yes, i know
<TheMuso> nxvl: Ok.
<TheMuso> nxvl: You staying for UDS?
<TheMuso> c
<sebner> \sh: not online ^^, yesterday I filed the sync request and I reviewed it and insisted on it to have a log or something of what you say about athcool. As I said, he doesn't trust me =)
<nxvl> yup
<nxvl> TheMuso: i will be here the whooooole week
<nxvl> :D
<sebner> \sh: argh. *he* reviewed it
<TheMuso> nxvl: thats awesome!
<\sh> sebner, I'll changed the bug now to approved, confirmed/wishlist and subscribed archive-admins
<\sh> s/ll/ve/
<sebner> \sh: hmm no stress. I can tell him when he is online again
<\sh> sebner, already done :)
<sebner> \sh: ok then ^^, thanks :)
<\sh> and changed assignee...he'll kill me ;)
<sebner> \sh: I tried to stop you, I have irc logs as evidence ^^
 * Hobbsee waves
<directhex> what's a typical turnaround time from subscribing ubuntu-main-sponsors to a merge request, and a response of some kind?
<Hobbsee> depends.
<Hobbsee> few days to a copule of weeks
<Hobbsee> a lot doing the allocation are at UDS atm.
<Hobbsee> which one?
<directhex> Hobbsee, mono. bug number, um...
<Hobbsee> ew
<Hobbsee> a while, then.
<directhex> 225426
 * directhex pokes the bot
<directhex> i said "LP 225426"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225426 in mono "[wishlist]please update mono to 1.9.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225426
<\sh> ruby1.9 new version is coming along
<\sh> damn...I wonder why my builds are going through and on our official buildds the very same package is failing
<sebner> \sh: I know that. the magic of opensource ..x xD
<\sh> nope...I expect, that when my mirrors are up2date and my chroots too...that it gives the same results...anyways..it's depwait now
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I also dist-upgraded now to intrepid. you may know how to fix pidgin? because of this perl 5.8 - perl 5.10 thing ^^
<sistpoty|work> sebner: no idea... (not even what pidgin is *g*)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: damn this kde users
<sebner> :P
<sistpoty|work> hrhr
<Hobbsee> sebner: use kopete.  problem solved.
<sebner> Hobbsee: I'll try some gtk stuff :P
<ember> sebner it just needs a rebuild, but before that some deps need a rebuild to
<sebner> ember: yep, hmm you are the pidgin guy. go go go :D and then xchat ^^
<Laney> Hmm. I've a package which installs its .desktop file into /usr/share/applications as it should, but the icon doesn't appear in the menu even after running update-desktop-database manually. Am I missing something?
<\sh> Laney, what does desktop-file-validate say to your .desktop file?
<Iulian> Hey
<Laney> \sh: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12444/
<Laney> (The file is distributed in the upstream tarball)
<\sh> Laney, get rid of the encoding line and remove .png from the icon= line
<\sh> Laney, desktop-file-validate again...be happy...dance
<directhex> can i be happy and dance?
<Laney> \sh: Actually, I just tried it in a fresh VM and it works properly... Guess I messed up my system somehow
 * \sh isn't happy...and could bang his head against the wall....
<\sh> crappy winxp
<directhex> could be worse
<directhex> winxp causes me less pain than SLES
<\sh> oh sles...
<\sh> sles9 was my favorite
<directhex> maybe one day i'll be able to run a 'dist-upgrade' equivalent on suse without spending hours fighting broken update mechanisms
<\sh> directhex, I used yum on sles9 and a selfmade package repository for it...that worked
<directhex> i think self-made package repos count as high maintenance
<\sh> directhex, na...I wrote a perl script which grabbed all updates from the novell website for sles9 automatically...and pushed them into the archives...quite easy...I'm sad that I was not allowed to take this source with me, when we had to leave the last company
<Laney> Oh ha ha, I just had to remove btnx-config.desktop from ~/.local/share/applications/
<\sh> oh no...another gnome vs kde war ... hopefully it lasts long on the u-d-d ml
<\sh> add a "not "
<RainCT> heya
<directhex> \sh, both suck. real men use ctwm
<\sh> na dwm
<directhex> evilwm!
<Iulian> Hi RainCT
<Laney> I've been using xmonad on my eee, it's pretty nice
<emgent> morning
<LucidFox> Hmm, the REVU comment design has changed
<bddebian> Heya folks
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<directhex> what are the policies regarding putting something from main in hardy-backports?
<pochu> directhex: the same for universe packages AFAIK
<ScottK> directhex: Backports makes no distinction between release pockets.
<ScottK> pockets/components
<Iulian> I'm looking for avahi-sharp in the archive but I cannot find it, although I see it here https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avahi-sharp
<Iulian> Also I can see it with the apt-cache showsrc cmd.
<Iulian> Am I missing something?
<sebner> Iulian: try a apt-get update and try again
<Iulian> sebner: I already did that.
<ScottK> Iulian: What binary package are you trying to install?
<directhex> Iulian, libavahi1.0-cil is the binary package made by the avahi-sharp source package
<ScottK> avahi-sharp is the source package name.
<sebner> Iulian: it's i386 only
<Iulian> ScottK: I need it as a b-d to build a package.
<Iulian> I will use what directhex said.
<ScottK> Iulian: You still need the binary for that.
<directhex> sebner, erm... is it? libavahi1.0-cil_0.6.19-1_all.deb
<Iulian> ScottK: Yes, indeed.
<sebner> directhex: only looked at avahi-sharp
<directhex> sebner, that IS avahi-sharp
<sebner> directhex: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avahi-sharp/0.6.19-2   Builds: intrepid i386   Successfully built  (DONE)
<directhex> http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/intrepid/avahi-sharp -> libavahi-ui0.0-cil and libavahi1.0-cil and monodoc-avahi-manual
<directhex> sebner, Arch: all packages are only built once
<sebner> directhex: but the others should be listed also there
<Iulian> Guys, do you have an idea when notify-sharp will be synced with debian?
<Iulian> It's bug #139356
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 139356 in debian "Please sync notify-sharp (0.4.0~r2998-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139356
<sebner> Iulian: subscribe u-u-s
<sebner> Iulian: ah no sry
<Iulian> sebner: It will be synced automatically.
<sebner> Iulian: autosync. well there is a lot to do so it will take some time
<Iulian> In the mean time, can I submit a package to REVU with a B-D on that package?
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: Could we talk about the issue with Windows-illegal characters?
<ScottK> Sure.
<andrew_sayers> Have you read the bug report?
<andrew_sayers> I'd been talking on there rather than the ML.
<andrew_sayers> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/230906
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230906 in ubuntu "Using special characters in filenames prevents Windows from opening" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<ScottK> No.  I've been away from my computer and doing mail via my phone until recently.
 * ScottK looks
<andrew_sayers> I've now moved a little bit beyond what I suggested there.
<ScottK> OK.  I read the bug.
<andrew_sayers> How would you feel about a uni_xlate option that did something more like :a...:z for various characters likely to cause problems for this or that implementation?
<ScottK> Fundamentally I don't think Ubuntu should be coded to limit itself based on Window's limitation.
<ScottK> I think automatically renaming user's files is an unfriendly act.
<andrew_sayers> There's also the issue of devices using FAT that assume Windows' limitations.
<andrew_sayers> How so?
<ScottK> The big problem isn't manually names files, but ones that are automatically generated.
<persia> Note that there are existing bugs about issues with moving files in the other direction causing name changes, and efforts to fix them.  This has all the earmarks of a bugwar issue.
<andrew_sayers> persia: Could you give me an example?
 * persia digs out launchpad
<ScottK> As an example, I use Kmail as my MUA with maildir storage.  The filenames it generates for the mails (maildir is one file per mail) are often not legal windows filenames.  Kmail also keeps an index per directory.  If I backup and restore to/from my 20GB USB microdrive (I have one and it's FAT32), under your plan you just renamed files out from under the index.  What's the impact of that?
<andrew_sayers> My big concern about renaming files is that sometimes it's not going to be possible (e.g. a 255 byte-long filename with a * in it), and that sometimes you'd get collisions (e.g. what if I happen to have named a file this:that).
<mok0> Achh, I always forget: which is the current address of FSF, Franklin St. or Temple Place?
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: My suggestion is that it would be transparent above the FS layer.
<ScottK> mok0: The one that lintian doesn't complain about.
<ScottK> ;-)
<andrew_sayers> So it's translated one way going in, then the other way coming back.
<mok0> ScottK: heh ok I'll check lintian source code
<ScottK> It's probably easier to look on the FSF web site.
<ScottK> I can see benifit in some kind of utility that one could use to verify if a folder contained legal Windows filenames.  I see tons of risk for very little benifit in modifying things at such a fundamental level.
<persia> andrew_sayers: Bug #49217 is one example
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 49217 in dosfstools "Problem in FSCK checking Chinese filename (Big5)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49217
<sistpoty|work> mok0: the 51 one (you could always look at /usr/share/common-licenses though)
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: I guarantee you'll have a hard time writing such a translation layer that would take the ~50,000 maildir files on my desktop can convert them both ways with no collisions an no errors.
<persia> mok0: Just look in /usr/share/lintian: the text of the correct address is there
<emgent> heya persia :=
<persia> Note that such a translation filter is especially hard when confronted with the variety of different accepted encodings for "FAT32".
<mok0> 51 Franklin St. is the current
 * mok0 transfers to memory
<norsetto> mok0: just remember temple == money != FSF
<persia> Erm.  Except that Franklin street is usually higher rent than Temple street...
<mok0> norsetto: Ha! That's really a good one!
<mok0> Franklin = Benjamin Franklin = electricity = computers = FSF
<mok0> norsetto: now we just need a mnemonic to un-remember the really old address at Mass Ave
<norsetto> moko: which one !?
<norsetto> mok0: which one !?
<andrew_sayers> persia: Thanks, I'll mention that as a related issue.
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: I appreciate what you are trying to do and understand the reasons for it.  I think it's appropriate to provide some tool, but not something that fundamentally affects the way the system works.
<mok0> Free Software Foundation, Inc., 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge,
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: Actually, let's just get a related issue out of the way first - whatever the mechanism, on by default or off by default?
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: Off.
<persia> andrew_sayers: Thanks.  If you do find a solution, it would be great, but it's really not hard, in large part because of missing portions of the FAT specs, and differing implementations by different formatting tools (even when ostensibly the same, e.g. MS Windows 2000 with MUA vs. without MUA).
<persia> mok0: That's really old.  Those were the offices right after moving out of MIT.
<andrew_sayers> persia: You mean really not easy?
<persia> Err...   Or really hard, depending :)
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: Surely the people that want it off are more likely to know how to turn it off?
<persia> andrew_sayers: I'm going to agree with ScottK here: the potential for data corruption (especially in double-byte locales) is so high as to make on by default very dangerous, unless it is known to be perfect.
<persia> Start with off by default.  After lots and lots of testing, on by default could be a separate discussion.
<mok0> persia: ye, that address is on my very first emacs manual
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: At the very least, whether on by default is the ultimate goal or not, initially it absolutely has to be off by default (as persia says).
<andrew_sayers> What about, at least to start with, warning by default?
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: I really think that it would be very odd for a person coming from Windows to manually invent a file name that's illegal in Windows.  They are the ones most likely to know the Windows rules.
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: I don't like that.  It's useless information thrown at me from my perspective.
<persia> andrew_sayers: Noisy.  Copying files to/from FAT is known broken now: warning changes behaviour without improvement.
<andrew_sayers> As in, saves a file unmodified, but pops up a thing saying "such-and-such a drive has files with names that mightn't be supported by Windows".
<persia> andrew_sayers: Except there's no good filter.  The FAT filesystem cannot know what encoding is used for files thereon, so you will have a difficult time knowing what bytes to allow.
<ScottK> Personally I find such pop-ups really annoying.
<sebner> huhu norsetti
<persia> andrew_sayers: Think about the case where 0x3A is a valid byte.
<sebner> no0tic: athcool sync ;)
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: It seems to me that until we have a good solution, the only real alternative is user awareness.  What if you could turn the warnings off?
<sebner> norsetto: : athcool sync ;)
<sebner> no0tic: sry
<norsetto> I don't see what we are discussing, if an user uses a filename that cannot be read by windows, thats a windows problem ...
<ScottK> norsetto: +1
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: I really think this is very much a corner case and will cause lots of pain to little benifit.
<persia> andrew_sayers: How can you know when to warn?  0x5C is sometimes valid in FAT, and sometimes a directory indicator
<andrew_sayers> persia: I have - I agree that's a knotty problem.  But uni_xlate already uses : as an escape character, so I'm assuming it's been looked at before.
<norsetto> sebner: good, next time try to be more verbose in your requests (archive admins will plainly reject them)
<persia> andrew_sayers: uni_xlate is known broken for double-byte locales
<andrew_sayers> persia: How so?
<sebner> norsetto: well I was 99% sure ;) and if a MOTU does it without checking no ones complains .....   :)
<persia> andrew_sayers: OK.  I'm just going to explain from the point of view of Windows, and let's assume there is sufficient variation in all other FAT implementations that other cases are also covered.
<persia> Microsoft distributes several different versions of the filesystem drivers, depending on the locale in which the kernel is expected to be installed.  In some cases, there is an aftermarket add-on that allows one to alter the drivers.
<andrew_sayers> For warnings, false positives aren't a huge problem.  "Such-and-such might cause problems" doesn't really break anything.
<persia> Each driver has a different set of assumptions about the native encoding for the filesystem tables in the FAT.  As this information is tracked by the host operating system, rather than recorded within the filesystem metadata, FAT partitions moved between different drivers will generate corrupt filenames.
<persia> Microsoft works around this by the introduction of a codepage parameter that can be set on the command line, which changes the display characters used by the cmd process.
<norsetto> sebner: I hope you were sure, if you weren't I would be worried, the issue is that you have to be document what you are doing, not take things for granted
<persia> Unfortunately, this doesn't actually change the meaning of the characters as read by the standard file access libraries, so files must first be recopied with cmd prior to being read by other programs when there are issues.
<sebner> norsetto: well, at least I testbuilded and it was fine, I run it and it doesn't segfault and I had in mind that we can sync it ;)
<persia> In the case of uni_xlate, it assumes that the FAT filesystem is configured to match the user locale, and there are a heap of special cases for different locales listed in the dosfstools source.
<persia> This breaks when one uses a FAT filesystem with a codepage that doesn't match one's locale.
<sebner> norsetto: and yes, I know everything should be documented, except when I'm motu ... ;)
<mok0> *ouch*
<persia> andrew_sayers: On the other hand, if you could build some tool that could accurately detect the encoding of a FAT filesystem, it might make sense to use that as a basis of a warning, assuming a sufficiently small processing delay.
<sebner> persia: where do I find this uqm-music maintainer that I should annoy?
<persia> That would only fail in the cases such as someone using a USB stick in several different computers, where the files may have several different encodings.
<andrew_sayers> If there's no metadata about which encoding is being used, guessing is a very hard problem.
<andrew_sayers> The only way I know would be to scan the whole filesystem and look at character frequencies.
<persia> sebner: You don't want to annoy anyone, and the uqm-music maintainer isn't likely to want to migrate especially.  The person who hosts the repository wouldn't mind migrating, but no longer has a direct interest (and didn't migrate when they did).  I'd recommend just filing a sync request based on the information in /usr/share/doc/uqm/
<andrew_sayers> Which would be slow, require lots of files, and be prone to error.
<persia> andrew_sayers: Precisely :)  This might take a while for a terabyte-sized filesystem
<sebner> persia: /usr/share/doc/uqm/ is the thing I wanted to hear ;)
<andrew_sayers> persia: For a terrabyte-sized FS, you could just stop when you've got enough data.  I'm more worried about floppy disks.
<sebner> persia: Tollef Fog Heen right?
<andrew_sayers> Hang on, we're wandering a bit here - you're saying that it's very hard to accurately *import files from* Windows.  I'm looking for a way to accurately *export files to* Windows.
<persia> andrew_sayers: Floppies / USB sticks are a common case, but also various other USB storage devices (e.g. portable media players, backup solutions, some cameras, etc.).  Also consider that it may be that you might have a large number of files before reaching enough.  Just about everything in a default codepage 932 install of Windows is codepage 437 compatible.
<StevenK> persia: Are you in Prague yet? :-)
<persia> StevenK: Nope.  I start my journey in about 5 hours.
<StevenK> persia: Ahh
<persia> andrew_sayers: It's the same thing.  While I'm more familiar with the problems of extracting data from FAT you'll have the same issues putting it there.  How should you encode your data for storage?  When is 0x5C a valid byte to store, and when will it break a filename?
<ScottK> This is particularly problematic for the USB drive case since you have no access to information about the target system.
<persia> ScottK: Or more accurately, any given target system cannot be passed metadata explaining the choices made during the data write operation.
<ScottK> Yes.
<andrew_sayers> Hang on - another newbie moment I'm afraid - when you say "break", what breaks?  e.g. reading open(2), I wasn't sure whether bad filenames cause EFAULT.
<sebner> persia: btw, don't forget about my merge ^^. quick upload before you're away ;)
<persia> sebner: Unlikely.  I'm just finishing a meal, and still have to sort my electronics.  I've a couple uploads of my own that I don't anticipate pushing.
<sebner> persia: for sure, no problem =)
<persia> andrew_sayers: When I say "break" I mean that the filename is considered corrupt.  The File Allocation Table is usually safe enough that minor editing makes the filename safe, but it looks ugly, and may require technical expertise beyond that of the average user.
<persia> This is, again, compounded for double-byte locales as there is typically insufficient documentation on the workarounds available in the local language.
<sebner> persia: should I subscribe directly the archive admins?
<persia> sebner: Probably not.  I suspect they'll reject it without a sponsor.
<andrew_sayers> Ah okay, so you would say that creating a file "a & b.txt" breaks the filename, because it causes headaches in some OSs?
<persia> andrew_sayers: Just as an aside, this is currently broken for copies between Windows systems: and the same issues affect every FAT implementation.
<sebner> persia: do want to "ACK" or should I ask somebody else?
<persia> sebner: I'll look for it when I next open launchpad, but if someone else ACKs first, I won't complain.
<bddebian> persia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<persia> bddebian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<andrew_sayers> Yeah, this does sound like one of those terrible pre-Unicode black holes.
<andrew_sayers> My day job involves handling that and worse sometimes.
<bddebian> persia: Heh.  Don't worry, I don't need anything, you just never say Hi anymore.. :'-(
 * andrew_sayers rocks back and forth
<sebner> persia: so I'll just subscribe you. No rush
<persia> andrew_sayers: Essentially, yes.  Again, if you can find the solution, every single maker of systems that are FAT compatible would likely rejoice.
<andrew_sayers> Plus, every non-English web user, everyone that wrote documents before 1995...
<persia> Um, well, it's not that bad.  Most things (notably including HTML) support some means of passing encoding metadata.
<persia> Whether users take advantage of it is an entirely different issue.
<norsetto> andrew_sayers: hmmmm, I met an Andy Sayers a couple of years ago
<andrew_sayers> norsetto: I've only gone by Andy at university, so unlikely to be me.
<mok0> Re: the hfsprogs request in u-m, has anyone done anything about it?
<andrew_sayers> norsetto: And then not entirely by choice :)
<norsetto> andrew_sayers: oh well, was worth a try ... :-)
<andrew_sayers> I have actually looked into detection in a different context.  I can't promise it's impossible, but I've come to accept that I'm not the man for the job.
<ScottK> mok0: Not that I know of.  Someone should explain (at the very least) that since we only do source uploads, his package will have to build in sbuild on amd64.
<andrew_sayers> norsetto: ironically, I met another Andrew Sayers at university.  Kept getting his post :s
<mok0> ScottK: He should patch it
<norsetto> andrew_sayers: I see, so its quite a common name (good when you have to pay taxes I would say ;-))
<mok0> ScottK: I'll write a reply
<ScottK> mok0: I agree.  I'm getting ready to travel today, so I'm not the one to tell him.
<ScottK> Great.
<mok0> ScottK: ah, you're going to uds too?
<ScottK> Yes
<andrew_sayers> persia: To look at this from the other direction, which characters are known to be unambiguous?  ASCII between 0x2b..0x7f?
<mok0> ScottK: Is it open to anyone, or do you need an invitation?
<ScottK> It's open to anyone.
<norsetto> mok0: why don't you come? It will be fun!
<ScottK> They even feed breakfast and lunch to anyone that shows up.
<mok0> ScottK: Ah, shame I didn't know that; I would have liked to go
<mok0> Perhaps next year
<persia> andrew_sayers: Unambiguous how?
<ScottK> If you show up with a sleeping bag, I guarantee we can find you a place to crash.
<ScottK> mok0: ^^^
<andrew_sayers> persia: In that I can reasonable assume that it will be interpreted identically by all implementations.
<mok0> ScottK: Heh! Unfortunately I am too busy to leave at the moment... but sounds like it could be fun!
<sebner> mok0: just because of the beer :P
<Laney> Is it OK for two packages to depend on each other?
<mok0> sebner: you're just saying that to make me feel bad
<ScottK> mok0: I took off for a few days and just showed up at the last one in Boston.  I'm glad I did.
<persia> andrew_sayers: There exists no such range.  The second byte in double-byte locales is handled differently, depending on the double-byte locale.  Your best source of reference about how double-byte encoding works on FAT is Microsoft's programming documentation.
<mok0> ScottK: When does the meeting start?
<sistpoty|work> Laney: it's not the best thing to do
<persia> Laney: If, and only if, they are not both versioned depends, and one of them is essential.
<andrew_sayers> Actually, I'm assuming that it's not possible even to rename files with an '&' in them.
<sebner> mok0: no no. don't worry. I neither will be there nor I drink beer :)
<andrew_sayers> (etc.)
<ScottK> mok0: This weekend is fosscamp which is pretty freeform.  The actual UDS starts on Monday and runs through Friday.
<persia> andrew_sayers: It's possible to do that, it's just hard.  emacs in dired mode will do it in nearly any OS for nearly any FS.
<Laney> persia: What does "essential" mean here?
<Laney> For context, here's the upstream: http://www.ollisalonen.com/btnx/ - two parts of the same application distributed separately but are both required for it to function.
<andrew_sayers> persia: it's possible to rename them, you mean?
<persia> Laney: Priority: essential (and no, you can't set that just to make a circular dependency permitted)
<mok0> ScottK: will you be there for the whole thing?
<ScottK> mok0: Yes.  Arriving Sunday PM and leaving Saturday very early.
<persia> andrew_sayers: Yes.  The names are just bitstrings in the FAT.  I think even 0x00 ought be able to be in a filename, with the right arrangement, although that would break most normal file readers (notably the standard C library, unless accessing without the use of the filename).
<ScottK> I was fortunate enough to fool <<<< convince Canonical that it was worth it to them to pay my travel expenses.
<mok0> ScottK: Should be fun
<ScottK> Yes.  I was only there two days last time.
<sistpoty|work> Laney: do both really mutually require it? or would e.g. btnx-config just recommend btnx?
<Laney> sistpoty|work: Well, btnx-config doesn't run without some files created by btnx. I guess btnx would technically install without -config, but you wouldn't be able to do anything with it.
<andrew_sayers> persia, ScottK: okay, so how about this: provide a little Windows tool on the Ubuntu CD that searches for characters that tend to cause problems, and renames them to something more sensible?
<sistpoty|work> Laney: then how about introducing a 3rd package (-common) from btnx, which btnx-config could then depend on it?
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: Something like that sounce reasonable as long as it's up to the user to ask it done.
<ScottK> sounce/sounds
<sistpoty|work> Laney: or s.th. like that
<persia> andrew_sayers: That sounds more sensible.  Look at the dosfstools source for the list of known hints for locale to charset mapping, and use that as a guide for when to determine which characters might cause issues.  Be sure that you know the locale for which the install will be done at the time of the test.
<andrew_sayers> persia: Just to be clear, when you say "double-byte encodings", are these ASCII-compatible type things like UTF-8, or incompatible (like UTF-16)?
<persia> andrew_sayers: Depends on the encoding.  Shift-JIS is mostly ASCII compatible, but Big5 isn't.  Microsoft has fairly good docs about FAT and double-byte encodings, which are worth a read.
<persia> Also, they don't tend to be like UTF8, in that all characters are typically double-byte, although some characters may have a null second byte.
<andrew_sayers> I'm just thinking that the tool is a lot easier to write if you can assume that any files with no characters above 0x7F are ASCII-compatible.
<persia> Ah.  You can't.
<andrew_sayers> Fair enough.  I'll write this all up in an ML post and misrepresent all your positions to my advantage ;)
<Laney> sistpoty|work: So you mean -common would depend on then both, or..?
<persia> andrew_sayers: Sounds good :)
<sistpoty|work> Laney: actually the other way round... btnx would depend on -common, and btnx-config would depend on common (and btnx would also depend on btnx-config)
<persia> sistpoty|work: Why -common?  Shouldn't it just be btnx-config depending on btnx and btnx recommending btnx-config (to allow space for e.g. a CLI configurator, or btnk-kconfig)?
<sistpoty|work> persia: if it works, yes... however I understood, that btnx would also require stuff from btnx-config.. did I misread that?
<persia> Laney: You might also be interested in gizmod, which is a python-scriptable framework for input multiplexing, already in the archive.
<persia> sistpoty|work: I can't tell.  From what I see, btnx ought work as long as it is configured, even if btnx-config isn't available, but you can't set up btnx without btnx-config.
<Laney> persia: Thanks. btnx seems extremely popular (104 page forum thread), which is why I took this up.
<Laney> persia: That's how I see it too.
<sistpoty|work> Laney: then persia's suggestion should be optimal ;)
<Laney> sistpoty|work, persia: Thanks to you both! I expect to be REVUing it soon :)
<persia> Laney: Understood.  The big issue with gizmod is that it's a framework, and doesn't have a bunch of GUIs.  On the other hand, I'm seeing a proliferation of uinput-based single-device userspace drivers, and would think consolidation on a single framework would improve the situation for all, and provide better support.
<persia> (gizmod does come with a base python script to handle USB remote controls interfacing with lirc, and powermates, but that's not useful for most people)
<mok0> So, I'm now answering the hfsprogs guy. Is there a way to have a different set of patches on different platforms? I think he is saying that he can patch the program to run on amd64
<andrew_sayers> persia: And all of the same issues apply to FAT16, FAT32, NTFS etc.?  For example, NTFS doesn't mandate Unicode?
<persia> mok0: There are several ways to do that.  All of them are discouraged.  The closest to being acceptable is passing different arguments to ./configure.
<mok0> persia, thanks. I can use that ad verbatim :-)
<persia> andrew_sayers: I don't know that much about NTFS.  The reason I know about this is for linux <-> linux transfers having issues with files in codepage 932 for non-Japanese locales.
<persia> (on FAT USB sticks)
<andrew_sayers> Okay, I'll prefix this with "true for FAT, unknown for NTFS".
<ScottK> I see envyng-core is on it's 3rd -proposed upload in 10 days.
 * ScottK wonders if it was really ready for the archives.
<persia> ScottK: Did any of them make -updates?  If not, that's an excellent example of the SRU process working.
<ScottK> No.  Not yet.
<ScottK> persia: Take a look at the debian/changelog entries.  I think it's an example of the complete failure of our package review process.
<ScottK> persia: One of the latest entries is something like remove the lintian over-rides and fix the problems lintian was complaining about.
<tseliot> ï»¿ScottK: what's the problem?
<ScottK> With envyng-core?  It looks to me like it should never have been accepted.
<tseliot> ï»¿ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> I'm pretty stunned to have an SRU about not taking the packages from the PPA.
<persia> ScottK: That might be a good thing, depending on the lintian issues.  I'm not excited about the changelog, but that's a different issue.
<tseliot> ï»¿ScottK: downloading is different from installing
<ScottK> persia: Well I think it was shoved in a the last minute due to pressure from people who didn't really look at the package.
<persia> Umm.  Yeah.  The lintian one might just be a poor changelog, but missing a file or pulling from the PPA seems like a review miss :(  We need to get motu-sru back up to fully staffed.
<ScottK> tseliot: It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.  I think that's parsing it very finely.
 * StevenK tries to figure out how to use shar
<ScottK> persia: We it was initially uploaded to Hardy with the PPA install thing enabled over my (and others) objections.
<StevenK> (It is one of the shell commands I've never actually had to use.)
<tseliot> ï»¿ScottK: are we going to talk about this again?
<ScottK> persia: After kees jumped in and kvetch we got a last minute upload in that was said to remove that, but now it seems that's not accurate.
<ScottK> tseliot: If it'd been fixed the first time properly, we wouldn't be.
<tseliot> Scottk: EnvyNG installs the drivers from Ubuntu's repositories
<persia> StevenK: `shar -S files* > myfiles.shar`, `sh ./myfiles.shar`
<ScottK> So what's the PPA related change in the latest upload to hardy-proposed?
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  That's an issue with motu-release as well then.
<tseliot> ï»¿Scottk: the problem is that there is another function which lets users download the packages to a directory
<ScottK> persia: Yes.  I was not one of the ones that advocated it.
<tseliot> ï»¿Scottk: and that function still pointed to the PPA.
<ScottK> Right.  And that's my point about it not being fixed correctly before release.
<tseliot> ï»¿Scottk: those packages were not installed
<persia> Umm.  It's fixed now, so it's not worth rehashing it specifically.
<ScottK> That makes it less severe, but not correct.
<persia> There are two more general issues of interest
<tseliot> ï»¿ScottK: and yes, I noticed the problem and I fixed it
<ScottK> I appreciate that.
<persia> Firstly, that it oughtn't have been uploaded with those issues (we need better feature freeze tracking)
<ScottK> I think we need fewer senior Canonical employees stating stuff is ready to be uploaded that isn't.
<persia> Secondly, that it oughtn't have gone to -proposed with some of those issues (we need better SRU review process: perhaps more distributed, like REVU)
<persia> ScottK: I don't think the issue is unique to senior Canonical employees, although I'll agree that we need fewer people stating stuff is ready when it isn't.
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: ï»¿ ï»¿https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open, go wild! https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/
<ScottK> I'm still trying to figure out how a package that lets non-developers arbitrarily update end-user systems after release doesn't violate some rule.
<ScottK> In general I'm not in favor of extra rules, but if we actually need to write that one down to know it's true, I think we ought to.
<persia> ScottK: It's a environment of freedom: one may do anything not specifically forbidden, as opposed to an environment of proscription, where one may do anything permitted.
<tseliot> ï»¿ScottK: again envyng doesn't "ï»¿arbitrarily update end-user systems"
 * persia is a fan of proscriptive models, but acknowledges that it usually takes a century or so to set the initial ruleset
<ScottK> tseliot: Under the version that was originally uploaded to Hardy it could have.
<tseliot> ï»¿ScottK: and I learnt the lesson. There's no need to complain any more ;)
<ScottK> tseliot: That's not a complaint about envyng, but about the fact that people were willing to upload it that way.  You're just an example in this case.
<persia> tseliot: Thinking about it, isn't the function of the package to pull untested code from the manufacturer, and install it on user systems?  While this likely has little to do with your actions, it's still a little odd (even if some users prefer it)
<tseliot> ï»¿persia: no, it doesn't do that. It just installs the drivers from Ubuntu's repositories.
<ScottK> persia: The problem was there was a break in the trust flow from upstream to the end user and there was no guarantee that's what was actually to be installed.
<persia> (And no, you don't have to justify it, it's a clearly valid use case, and there are larger issues, but it's different than most packages)
<persia> tseliot: Oh.  I misunderstood then.
<persia> ScottK: I see.  That's actually an issue that can be resolved then.
 * persia looks forward to an active motu-release session
<ScottK> The usual flow is Upstream -> Ubuntu -> End user.  The previous approach went Upstream -> 3rd party repo -> end user
<ScottK> And lots of people actually thought that was OK.  I'm still not over it.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: well, I still believe the approach is not too scary, as it doesn't do that by just installing the package (but rather if you click on s.th.)
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I don't believe that's a substantial factor in mitigation.  The end user has no way to verify what he's getting is actually the upstream package.
 * persia hands sistpoty|work a EULA :)
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Not that I have a particular concern about any individual involved, but we have a clear set of trust boundaries and the PPA is outside it.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: but envyng doesn't pull anything from ppa, unless I start it and click around, does it?
<sistpoty|work> (or rather from official mirrors now)
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Right, but the question is what do you get when you do so.  Even with stuff like flashplugin-non-free we manually update the official package with a new md5sum when it changes.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: I guess what I want to say is, that it's not a too clear boundary of good and bad then (e.g. dget will happily fetch source packages from ppa, but noone considers it bad)
<ScottK> But dget is a developers too that gets source.  Completely different.
<norsetto> persia: "persia looks forward to an active motu-release session" means what?
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: if you want, take wget to download the deb's then... the point for me is that I don't think you can easily draw a line between good and bad
<ScottK> OK.  Perhaps there is some fuzzyness in the line, but the original approach was, IMO, clearly on the wrong side of it, no matter how you draw it.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: it was suboptimal imho... and t.b.h I'm not entirely sure if I'd act the same way again with the motu-release hat
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: I guess one point, why I'd prefered to have it in the official repos is that we can fix it up that way
<persia> norsetto: A number of involved parties discussing how to coordinate things so that feature freeze has a consistent meaning
<norsetto> persia: ok, so you mean a dedicated session at UDS
<persia> norsetto: Yes.  Whether in a real room during the day, or otherwise.
 * persia hopes people will forget to turn off the VoIP phones in the evenings again
<ScottK> \sh: The new libetpan is in the archive.  You can do the claws-mail rebuild now.
<sistpoty|work> grml... grml... ssh attack on all boxes here again...
<bddebian> joy
 * ScottK is glad for ssh rate limiting in iptables.
 * sistpoty|work is glad, that he finally found out a) where the log files are and b) where mssh2 is located at *g*
<pochu> If anyone cares for aMule, is welcomed to take over it :-)
 * sistpoty|work heads home now... cya
<sebner> pochu: no merge, no fun -.-
<sebner> wb mok0
<Laney> Why is linda not available for Hardy?
<ScottK> It's no longer used.
<soren> debian bug 469039
<ubottu> Debian bug 469039 in linda "linda: Should this package be removed?" [Serious,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/469039
<sebner> ScottK: linda will be merged into lintian IIRC, right?
<ScottK> sebner: Most of what Linda checked is now checked for by Lintian.
<sebner> ScottK: ok
<Laney> OK, I didn't find anything to that effect, thanks
<mok0> sebner: wb?
<mok0> ah
<sebner> ^^
<mok0> heh
<\sh> remoind
<Iulian> \sh: Well, I've built a package called giver but everytime I want to run it I have to write 'bash giver' in a terminal.
<\sh> Iulian: chmod 755 <location of>/giver in debian/rules, rebuilding
<\sh> should help
<pochu> Iulian: you should modify the first line of /usr/bin/giver
<pochu> to be /bin/bash instead of /bin/sh
<Iulian> pochu: That's what I was looking for.
<Iulian> Thanks :)
<\sh> nobody said, that the script throws errors with dash ;)
<Iulian> \sh: I thought you saw the meesage from -bugs channel.
<directhex> every time someone writes #!/bin/sh and uses bashisms, god kills a puppy, nine kittens, and a baby panda
<\sh> Iulian: no came too late ;)
<\sh> directhex: yes, but they are not at fault, because since a decade was /bin/sh a symlink to bash...
<Iulian> pochu: I'm afraid I don't know how to save that. Is there any rule I have to call in debian/rules?
<pochu> Iulian: you could create a patch for it, or use some sed magic in debian/rules
<directhex> \sh, they ARE at fault. saying "this script is a sh script, run it with sh" is wring if it's a bash script. so is storing c++ code in .f90 files, and wondering why gfortran chokes. just as wrong
<directhex> \sh, if they mean bash, use #!/bin/bash
<Iulian> pochu: Uh, I don't know much about sed.
<pochu> Iulian: sed -ie '1s/\/bin\/sh/\/bin\/bash/g' $(CURDIR)/debian/giver/usr/bin/giver
<pochu> I think that should do the trick
<pochu> in the install target, I think
<Iulian> pochu: Awesome, will try now.
<\sh> directhex: yes...but you know 85% from 100% of linux user don't know unix in general (that's my stat)
<directhex> \sh, i heard 78.5% of stats are made up on the spot
<\sh> directhex: jazz
<pochu> Iulian: -i is to change the file in place, the -e calls the script which follows. 1 is to only change the first line, s is a substituting rule, which will change /bin/sh with /bin/bash
<directhex> \sh, it's not them though. it's major companies like intel, whose official fix for their broken installer is detailing how to replace the /bin/sh symlink on ubuntu - rather than adding 2 letters to their script to force bash
<sebner> \sh: what do you mean with "don't know unix in general" ?
<directhex> Iulian, file a bug upstream. using #!/bin/sh is incorrect if it only executes under bash
<InvisiblePinkUni> Hi, I have come to request that VLC be moved from Multiverse to Universe. I see that faad2 and x264 are now GPL2 there is no reason to have VLC in multiverse.
<InvisiblePinkUni> Please let me know whom I should contact for this.
<\sh> sebner: ever sat in front of a tru64 machine and tried to find your way? :)
<\sh> sebner: ever tried to change the ip address of an ethernet device in solaris?
<\sh> or even earlier when it was named sun os still?
<directhex> \sh, real men recompile their kernels to change ip!
<\sh> that we did, that we did
<directhex> even unixware dropped that feature
<sebner> \sh: I'm member of the 85% group ^^
<Jazzva> This is the problem with debconf package in intrepid, right? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14560647/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.ctxextensions_4.1.2007090601-0ubuntu2_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
<\sh> sebner: compile openldap on tru64 without removing your hair
<sebner> \sh: I'm 17 and started with win98. I don't even know what's tru64 ;)
<\sh> sebner: try to use ksh, csh, zsh when you always used bash
<\sh> the sadness of the youth...but hopefully you can try to explain an old fart how to install a theme on this bloody stupid Nokia N73
<\sh> old farts are not able to use new mobiles
<sebner> \sh: hrhr
<directhex> \sh, kids these days don't know the joys of EMM386.EXE just to get games working, either
<sebner> directhex: well, I'm happy and satisfied to have a pc where I just press the start button and can play/work with it ;)
<sebner> \sh: nexuiz? :(
<directhex> sebner, it built character!
<sebner> directhex: don't need that xD
<\sh> sebner: really .. it's fantastic if you build your own zx81 from pieces and not bought it completly somewhere else
<\sh> woot...i got it#
<\sh> ubuntu on n73 ;)
<\sh> sebner: it's new upstream no?
<sebner> \sh: 2.4.2 ;)
<\sh> sebner: on my todo
<sebner> \sh: great. timeframe?
<\sh> sebner: weekend, woman in da house, sun, what do you expect? :)
<\sh> let's say next week before linuxtag
<\sh> mom...need to relog
<sebner> \sh: debian svn already upgraded to 2.4.2 and is finalizing :)
<sebner> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi sebner
<\sh> re
<sebner> wb \sh
<sebner> \sh: debian svn already upgraded to 2.4.2 and is finalizing :)
<\sh> sebner: so lets wait for them to sync
<\sh> less work for us then
<sebner> \sh: I hope they are fast. It just nexuiz is an auto-sync and the archive admins aren't that fast these days :(
<\sh> sebner: so...let them enjoy praque..these days it must be really nice...
<\sh> sebner: we have a lot of time...and it comes in time for everyone to enjoy
<sebner> \sh: sure we have time. but if I have no actual nexuiz it's like a drug addicted without drugs ;)
<\sh> damn you kde4
<\sh> sorry..someone said something..but I couldn't read anymore
<sebner> lol
<sebner> \sh: btw, a little stupid question. I haven't discovered the sense of debian new yet. Can you help me to understand it?
<Iulian> pochu: It did the trick. Thank you.
<\sh> sebner: I thought it has the same purpose as our NEW queue...but I'm not a debian infrastructure expert..and I don't want to become one
<Iulian> directhex: I will send an e-mail about this issue.
<sebner> \sh: we have a new queue? xD
<\sh> sebner: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue
<Iulian> directhex: I don't know if they want to use it or not.
<directhex> Iulian, it's flat-out wrong to say "#!/bin/sh" and use bashisms, though.
<\sh> Iulian: they can remove all "BASHisms" from their script and make it more compatible
<directhex> \sh, why bother though? which distros don't ship bash?
<\sh> directhex: well, it could be good for d-i ;)
<\sh> or initramfs direct sharing during boot features in future ? dunno
 * directhex makes a bash udeb, just for \sh 
<\sh> directhex: I know how to make one for myself...
<Iulian> directhex: Indeed
<directhex> Iulian, and saying "no! i want to be wrong!" is hopefully the preserve of pidgin devs and xfree86 devs.
<sebner> \sh: that means these packages will move to the archives soon?
<Iulian> directhex: Hehe
<\sh> sebner: there are NEW source packages, which are going to the buildds first, and during these builds they are creating NEW binary .debs and they have to be unleashed to the archives later
<sebner> \sh: something like debian incoming
<\sh> sebner: the list is a mix of them...mostly new source packages without their new binary packages, and other new binary packages waiting to be unleashed ;)
<sebner> \sh: thanks for the infos :)
<\sh> sebner: no...I think it's more debian NEW ;)
<sebner> lol
<\sh> Nafallo: is the gb. mirror problem now resolved?
<sistpoty> directhex, \sh: you don't have bash on openbsd for example... at least not "our" bash. But the argument for /bin/sh to be dash is that it starts faster (-> faster bootup speed), not really that it's smaller
<\sh> .oO(if mark would buy the unix sources of novell/SCO everything would be solved.../bin/sh would be a real /bin/sh)
 * \sh runs
<sebner> \sh: great idea
<directhex> sistpoty, using a POSIX sh replacement is entirely correct.
<\sh> can't be so expensive now, since SCO needs money, and novell wants it back from SCO...what's that name for such a thing? Humanitarian Help?
<pochu> \bin\sh
<Nafallo> \sh: aye, ages ago.
<ScottK> \sh: I'd call it appeasement or giving in to extortion.
<\sh> Nafallo: and ?  what was the cause?
<directhex> i hear appeasement is all the rage in come countries right now
<ScottK> So I've heard.
<\sh> I thought we can call it "tribal genocide" if we declare commercial unices for dead ? ;)
 * \sh is too sarcastic now...bad \sh
<sistpoty> directhex: sure it is correct, but it's not really the size that matters (well, it does, because it means that it starts faster ;))
<directhex> i say "housekeeping" is the right term
<directhex> sistpoty, well, yes
<Nafallo> \sh: I suggest you speak to Spads if you need to know :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: na I just wanted to know if it was the mad run of leningradskaya the last week
<Nafallo> not sure.
<k0p> hi all.
<k0p> i'm searching for a package mantainer. I'm working on a Project and I would like that in the next release it will inside ubuntu repositories. Someone arond can help me?
<sistpoty> k0p: what's the project about? maybe you have some url for the project?
<k0p> yeah
<k0p> www.umitproject.org
<k0p> we will release stable release soon. and I already make a package to ubuntu 8.04. Only for tests
<sistpoty> k0p: if you have a package already, I suggest that you'll upload that to revu... or are you looking for someone to take over packaging?
<k0p> sistpoty, I'm waiting for we release the new version
<k0p> a stable version
<k0p> may be in 20 th of this month
<sistpoty> k0p: and if that happens, do you want to package it yourselves, or are you looking for someone to do that?
<k0p> I'll make a package by myself
<k0p> I'm  making a script to auto generate the package
<sistpoty> k0p: then the best thing to do is to upload a source package to revu, as soon as the stable version is released
<sistpoty> (and of course to make sure to ping people here for reviewing)
<sistpoty> k0p: however, it might be a good idea to also submit a source package based on what you have now, because there are some delays in reviewing
<k0p> sistpoty, thanks for help. I'll make what you said.
<k0p> yeah I understand. Thanks for all
<sistpoty> you're welcome k0p
<k0p> :)
<k0p> thanks
<emgent> heya people
<jussi01> does anyone know what Iain Lane's nick is?
<Laney> jussi01: <-
<jussi01> Laney: ahh :) I just wanted to say a big thank you!
<Laney> jussi01: Oh? :)
<jussi01> Laney: btnx...
<jussi01> :D
<Laney> :D
<Laney> np! Are you Olli?
<jussi01> no. Just a btnx user
<Laney> Ah. Well if you could have a go with them and see if they work for you I'd be grateful
<Laney> Seems fine for me but many eyes and all that
<jussi01> sure, will do
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> brb
<norsetto> the sponsors queue is crashing under the weight of 250+ bugs
<mruiz> norsetto, thanks for take care of httrack sync
<norsetto> mruiz: np
<sebner> norsetto: is this always at that time? Wasn't around at the last beginning of the development cycle
<mruiz> maybe it's related to UDS traveling
<norsetto> sebner: it was bad but not this bad, I think its just that the number of contributors have quadrupled (if not more)
<mruiz> :-)
<mruiz> Will MoM improve its GUI ?
<sebner> norsetto: well, but this is great. we want that ;)
<norsetto> jazzva: re. bug 225499, what do you mean by: "Maintainer field should be set to Ubuntu MOTU Developers after sync." ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225499 in ksimus "Please sync ksimus from Debian unstable to intrepid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225499
<nxvl> norsetto: when are you comming?
<Jazzva> norsetto: Shouldn't we change the Maintainer field according to DebianMaintainerField spec?
<norsetto> nxvl: I think I told you at least 3 times already :-)
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> but as you may know i'm to exited right now to be in Prague
<norsetto> jazzva: why?
<mruiz> hahahaha
<nxvl> so i haven't space in my mind for anything
<nxvl> :D
<norsetto> nxvl: I'll be at he hotel around 4pm on Sunday
<Jazzva> norsetto: I thought that was right :).
 * nxvl writes it down
<norsetto> nxvl: rain permitting ....
<emgent> norsetto: o/
<Jazzva> To keep Debian maintainer as Original-Maintainer, and to add Ubuntu MOTU as maintainer
<Jazzva> norsetto: ^
<norsetto> jazzva: if there is no ubuntu change, why should we change the maintainer field?
<Jazzva> norsetto: True...
<Jazzva> norsetto: I changed the report...
<Jazzva> Removed that we should edit the Maintainer field
<norsetto> jazzva: re. imagezzom, I see that somebody already submitted a merge request (bug 227577)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227577 in imagezoom "Please merge imagezoom 0.3.1-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227577
<Jazzva> norsetto: That's ok :)... I'll just check the debdiff, to see if it's right and leave a comment
<norsetto> Jazzva: perfect, I was just going to ask that ;-)
<Jazzva> :)
<sebner> norsetto: you are checking this stuff? nice! Somebody is also working on one of my packages without asking :(
<saivann> Does a MOTU can tell if it's possible to change a package version from 5.02-1ubuntu1 to 5.02-0ubuntu1 for intrepid? bug #231206
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 231206 in ubuntu-calendar-october "Wrong version number (not a Debian package)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/231206
<Adri2000> saivann: it's not possible as it's a lower version than the previous
<saivann> Adri2000 : Then what could be the solution?
<norsetto> sebner: if it bothers you leave a comment on the bug report, but please avoid an argument if you can (its not worth it)
<Adri2000> saivann: epoch, but it's really ugly
<Adri2000> saivann: does debian has the package yet?
<saivann> Adri2000 : epoch?
<saivann> Adri2000 : No it's a ubuntu specific package
<saivann> Adri2000 : That's why 1ubuntu1 is wrong
<sebner> norsetto: no no. I have no problem with it. just sad because everybody *should* ask. But I also always check before I start with my own ones. but the sync request is somehow funny ^^ bug 230340
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230340 in python-numpy "Please sync python-numpy 1.0.4-6ubuntu3 (universe) from Debian unstable 1.0.4-8 (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230340
<Adri2000> saivann: epoch is for example 1:. so 1:5.02-0ubuntu1 > 5.02-1ubuntu1
<saivann> Adri2000 : Oh, I see..
<Adri2000> saivann: in this case, why not just upload a new version?
<saivann> Adri2000 : I did set the bug priority to medium, but is a wrong version number really a problem, or I can set it to low and drop milestone? I your opinion.
<Adri2000> debian doesn't have this package, so no it's not really a problem
<saivann> Adri2000 : Only update the version number.. Yes, I'll suggest that to the maintainer
<mruiz> sebner, maybe contributors are in a rush, or they don't follow the procedure to ping the previous uploader
<Adri2000> saivann: if I understand correctly the version is year.month
<sebner> mruiz: I think the second one ;)
<Adri2000> saivann: so if the package is going to be maintained, I guess the next upload would me 8.05 or something like that, which is anyway higher than the current version
<mruiz> sebner, I understand you... minutes ago I found that somebody else is working on the same package :-(
<saivann> Adri2000 : That makes sense, thanks for your opinion, I'll look at this with the maintainer :)
<sebner> mruiz: well, if it doesn't cause double work I don't mind. It's just that they don't have good manners ^^
<mruiz> :-)
<sebner> norsetto: hmm more contributors are good but then they are too many to teach all of them good manners
<sebner> good old time when I started :) (4 and a half month ago) xD
<Jazzva> norsetto: Looks fine, just to test-build and I'll leave a comment
<gnomefre1k> who was working on the flash upgrade for the last version .124? someone was working on it and stopped i think as gutsy didnt get updated to that version. i dont remember bug report but gutsy was one to get it.
<norsetto> Jazzva: for ksimus, I must admit I don't understand why you changed the desktop files
<gnomefreak> think i found the issue :(
<Jazzva> I suppose it was stupid me...
<Jazzva> norsetto: After learning some more, I saw too that there was no point in that...
<Jazzva> Hmm... I'm confused by Build-Depends-Indep. When to use it and when not to use it?
<norsetto> Jazzva: hmmm, so, should we revert the change and keep it as a merge or sync what we know is not good?
<Jazzva> norsetto: It's a sync. The commands I enabled did exactly nothing.
<Jazzva> (as I said, stupid me)
<norsetto> Jazzva: yes, its a sync but two wrongs don't make one right
<Jazzva> norsetto: the first wrong was me enabling them in the first place? What's the second wrong? :)
<Jazzva> (the first "?" should be ".")
<norsetto> Jazzva: bddebian importing your changes :-)
<Jazzva> Umm... Oh, you're talking about that :). That's the ok part (the desktop files).
<sistpoty> nxvl: just to enlighten you, due to your recent post to ubuntu-devel-discuss...
<sistpoty> nxvl: it make things unreadable
<sistpoty> nxvl: > why?
<sistpoty> nxvl: top posting is bad
<norsetto> Jazzva: yes, I think changing the desktop files was a mistake too
<sistpoty> add >> there
<Jazzva> norsetto: I thought you meant on enabling dh_* in debian/rules. That was unneded
<Jazzva> norsetto: It was? desktop-file-validate reported errors and I just adjusted them according to FreeDesktop specs...
<norsetto> jazzva: yes, but kde 3.5 DO NOT coply with the freedesktop specs
<norsetto> jazzva: you took perfectly valid kde desktop files and made a kde application complaint to Gnome ....
<norsetto> s/complaint/compliant/
<Jazzva> norsetto: damn :(.
<Jazzva> norsetto: I'll prepare the fix to revert the changes...
<norsetto> jazzva: I don't know, for intrepid I hope we will have kde 4, which IS freedesktop complaint, so, perhaps we should not stir the water
<Jazzva> norsetto: And for debian?
<norsetto> jazzva: perhaps the best is to ask jriddell, if he says you should revert then do it, otherwise we just sync
<Jazzva> norsetto: Ok, I'll send him a mail, since he's not around...
<sebner> sistpoty: interesting discussion O_o
<norsetto> Jazzva: about Build-Depends-Indep, it only matters for the targets
<norsetto> Jazzva: B-D-I are only satisfied for build-indep and binary-indep targets (or just build and binary)
<bddebian> norsetto: ?
<sistpoty> sebner: heh, I just wanted to point out why top-posting is suboptimal ;)
<Jazzva> norsetto: Yeah, found in debian policy. The moving of zip from Build-Depends to Build-Depends-indep in imagezoom doesn't change anything, since it's used when we call build target.
<norsetto> bddebian: we were discussing about ksimus
<bddebian> And?
<norsetto> bddebian: ad the fact that jazzva changes to the desktop files were not necessary
<sebner> sistpoty: ^^, btw your application has good comments. I really consider answering ^^
<bddebian> Ah
<sistpoty> sebner: heh, feel free to do so ;)
<sebner> sistpoty: heh, 2 days ago you refused it ^^
<norsetto> bddebian: so, we just changed a kde application to comply with Gnome :-)
<sebner> sistpoty: well, a week ago ^^
<sistpoty> heh
<sebner> gn8 folks :)
<sistpoty> gn8 sebner
<sistpoty> oh, that's  good idea, I guess I'm off to bed as well... gn8
<Riddell> norsetto: what's this about desktop files?
<norsetto> riddell: well, apparently ksimus (a kde application) was modified to fit into the Gnome scheme (desktop files wise).
<bddebian> So
<bddebian> They both support freedesktop standards
<norsetto> Riddell: this was also apdted by debian, so, I was wondering if its ok now to sync, or we shoudl revert it
<Riddell> adopted?
<norsetto> Riddell: yes
<gnomefreak> has anyone seen brandon?
<Riddell> unless the .desktop file was causing any problems in the first place, I don't suppose it matters either way
<norsetto> Rideell: well, the change was made most probably because in Gnome the entry or an icon was missing
<norsetto> Riddell: ^
<Riddell> well if debian made the same change what's the issue?
<norsetto> Riddell: reason for asking, if its not a problem for Kubuntu, I'm happy to sync
<Riddell> if debian have the same change then sure
<Riddell> if debian don't have the same change and the change wasn't at all important anyway then also sure
<norsetto> Riddell: okki dokki then
<norsetto> jazzva: ^^
<Jazzva> norsetto: I'll try not to mess up again :)
<norsetto> Jazzva: why was it changed in the first place?
<Riddell> hmm, the patch seems to remove x-ksimus.desktop
<Jazzva> norsetto: desktop-file-validate reported that the desktop files are not valid
<norsetto> jazzva: yes, it will do that for various kde desktop files
<Jazzva> norsetto: Right... now I know..
<Riddell> the change to ksimus-execute.desktop seems fair enough, although I'd be curious what %m ever did
<Riddell> the change to ksimus.desktop is incomplete, it adds a Category line but it's not installed to the xdg directory to use it
<Riddell> and X-InitialPreference has no need of the X- (I doubt it'll work with it)
<Riddell> and removing x-ksimus.desktop is obviously wrong
<Riddell> norsetto: so I'd say drop that patch
<norsetto> Riddell: ok
<Riddell> norsetto: if you want to fix it, keep that ksimus.desktop change and convince Makefile.am to install it to /usr/share/applications/kde/
<Riddell> except for the X-InitialPreference change
<norsetto> Riddell: thanks for looking into that
 * Riddell sleeps
<norsetto> jazzva: so, lets make it a merge with the changes indicated by the Sleeping Beauty
<Jazzva> norsetto: Ok, I'll prepare the diff...
<bddebian> I like my video games from bddebian's 8 year old girl.
<norsetto> bddebian: bdgirl?
<bddebian> daddy really likes games so I will take over.
<norsetto> laney ?
<bddebian> oh, my name is Grace
<norsetto> bddebian: not bdgirl? I like bdgirl
<bddebian> cool I like it.
<norsetto> bddebian: thought so, its pretty cool
<Laney> norsetto: What's up?
<norsetto> Laney: thx for forwarding that patch to Debian
<Laney> No probs
<norsetto> Laney: but the comment change you made, err, its not exactly what I had in mind :-)
<bddebian> yo! what up mok0
<Laney> Haha, what's wrong with it?
<Laney> norsetto: I took it from the package description. It seemed to fit from what I saw in the HIG
<norsetto> Laney: hmmm, the Comment is usually used as a tooltip
<norsetto> Laney: "An evolutionary program (using a genetic algorithm) for automatically generating the timetable of a school, high-school or university" I think its stretching it a bit
<Laney> norsetto: Really? It doesn't seem too different in tone from the example "Find and sink enemy ships in this networked version of Battleship"
<mok0> bddebian: heh looking for  a chat
<norsetto> Laney: Well, it doesn't start with an imperative verb
<norsetto> Laney: and its definetively too long, its a tooltip, just the minimum of information would do
<mok0> "Generate timetable"
<Laney> "Generate timetables using an evolutionary algorithm?" Or is that bit not even important?
<Laney> s/?"/"?
<bddebian>  ''dad'' is yellin' because we have to laeve. Nice to chat. By
<norsetto> Laney: looks much better to me, or even s/evolutionary/genetic/
<mok0> bye bddebian
<norsetto> bddebian: bye bye
<mok0> It's not of interest to anyone what the algorithm is
<norsetto> mok0: but it looks cool!
<Laney> mok0: Well upstream considered it distinctive enough to put in the name of the application
<mok0> Laney: yeah of course they love it
<norsetto> mok0: everyone can generate timetables, but we use "genetic" algorithms, for $deity sake
<bddebian> Gah, little shit.  Later gents..
<norsetto> lol
<mok0> heh
<mok0> If the app is better at creating timetables, then great, they can publish a paper about it that other nerds can read
<mok0> But for a tooltip, it's not relevant
<mok0> My 2 cents
<norsetto> mok0: us$ cents?
<mok0> norsetto: yep, they're not worth much
<mok0> norsetto: like my opinion :-P
<norsetto> mok0: haha
<mok0> Laney: Cut the technobabble
<mok0> Laney: no offense I hope
<Laney> Fine. The program is specific to educational institutions though, so how about "Generate timetables for educational institutions", then?
<mok0> Yeah short & sweet
<slangasek> what makes it special to educational institutions, OOI?
<mok0> slangasek: for making schedules that repeat weekly?
<Laney> slangasek: The menus talk about things like "Teachers statistics", "Subjects" and so on
<slangasek> ah :)
<Laney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12587/ how about this?
<Laney> or even "Educational Timetable Generator" for the name?
<mok0> Laney: The pastebinned one is better I think
<Laney> mok0: Right then, that's what I'll upload
<Laney> Gah for mistakes :(
<mok0> So, norsetto are you going to Prague?
<norsetto> mok0: indeed
<norsetto> mok0: too bad you will not be there
<mok0> norsetto: I thought it was some kind of closed meeting for Canonical employees
<norsetto> mok0: now I'm gonna be the older nerd around :-/
<mok0> norsetto: Well I'll be the old fart here on IRC
<norsetto> mok0: oh, thats the week after I think (or maybve its only once a year)
<mok0> norsetto: Perhaps I can come to the next UDS
<norsetto> mok0: next one is in the states most probably (they say its likely SF)
<mok0> Prague should be fun though. They have good beer there
<norsetto> mok0: and awful weather ...
<norsetto> mok0: I guess the two go together (everywhere but in Holland ;-))
<slangasek> the forecast looks nice enough for the coming week. :)
<mok0> norsetto: what's up with Holland? Good weather?
<norsetto> slangasek: does it? Sunday 4-12 Rain - Monday 2-16 sun ....
<norsetto> mok0: no, shitty beer
<albert23> norsetto: au
<emgent> argh
<emgent> i saw now
<norsetto> mok0: actually, they have good beer, but you don't find it in Holland, its all exported
<crimsun> norsetto: the aged ScottK will also be present
<mok0> norsetto: Hah!
<emgent> oh talk list is out
<norsetto> crimsun: yes, but the bugger pretend to be younger than me
<emgent> s/talk/talks/
<mok0> There will be webcasts?
<mok0> Could be neat
<norsetto> albert23: tell them what you Dutch call Heineken if you dare :-)
<gpolo> do you have any plans to start distributing tkinter compiled against tk 8.5 ?
<albert23> norsetto: I am afraid I have to confess I import from Belgium
<slangasek> norsetto: so "shitty weather" == "it's going to rain the day before UDS"? :)
<emgent> http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?world=0055&links
<Laney> norsetto, mok0: It's up on the BTS again now. Sorry for the hassle!
<norsetto> slangasek: no, shitty weather is "its sunny and warm and nice and we are closed all day long in this hotel" :-)
<Laney> Also I'm jealous of all you people jetting off. Stuck back at home revising for exams :(
<slangasek> heh
<mok0> albert23: you do have Koningshoeven Trappist
<crimsun> gpolo: not that I'm aware of.
<crimsun> gpolo: the Debian unstable source package still lists tk8.4 as a build-dependency
<gpolo> yeh
<gpolo> should I ask this somewhere else and try to get someone to update this dependency to tk8.5 ?
<crimsun> gpolo: well, feel free to go ahead and file a wishlist bug against the python-stdlib-extensions source package
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-17
<crimsun> gpolo: unfortunately, there's a component stumbling block:  tk8.5 is in universe, while python-stdlib-extensions is in main, and a main source package can't build-depend on a binary package in universe.  So, it may be worth investigating whether you can get the tk8.5 and dependencies promoted to main.
<gpolo> i see
<gpolo> thanks crimsun ;)
 * norsetto --> sleep
 * RoAkSoAx hi y'all
<ScottK> Does the new launchpad logo remind anyone else of a spider's web?
<Amaranth> ScottK: it does now :/
<ScottK> It does seem to fit LP's purpose?
<Amaranth> ScottK: 'Will you walk into my parlor?' said the Spider to the Fly
<ScottK> Something like that.
<mruiz> hi guys... Could someone remove a bug from the U-U-S queue, please ?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<andrew_sayers> pochu: when you request that reportbug-ng be removed, could you do the same for reportbug (citing bugs 228183 and 36186)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 228183 in reportbug "Please remove broken reportbug from Ubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/228183
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 36186 in reportbug "Trivial and non-trivial enhancements for bugreport" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36186
<pwnguin> I just got an upstream author comment on a bug about why their latest release isnt in gutsy
<pwnguin> which freezes in the schedule were relevant to MOTU?
<pwnguin> Beta?
<pwnguin> final?
<pwnguin> damn you UDS!
<pwnguin> april 23rd =/
<pwnguin> on bug #184996, does anyone want to write a good, encouraging answer?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 184996 in xournal "Annotation tools are broken in hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184996
<Hobbsee> andrew_sayers: mutter.  please fix it, instead of removing it.  a whole lot of us use it to file bugs in debian.
<Hobbsee> andrew_sayers: make it report bugs correctly to ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: feature freeze.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: which includes an upstream version freeze.
<pwnguin> i thought universe was seperate
<andrew_sayers> Have a look https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/reportbug-ng/+bug/175508 - in short, what would correct bug reporting look like?  LP doesn't support anything useful.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 175508 in reportbug-ng "Please remove reportbug-ng from Intrepid" [High,Triaged]
<pwnguin> im reading the bug again now
<pwnguin> i think the basics is we fixed the wacom-tools problem that made that bug a problem
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: it should be the same.
<pwnguin> i recall reading an email about some freeze not applying to universe
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: the final freezes, not requiring a release-targetted bug.
<Hobbsee> it only requires a ffe
<pwnguin> well upstream released on march 28th
<pwnguin> after the beta release =/
<pwnguin> and feature freeze =/
<andrew_sayers> Hobbsee: (I'm assuming that you want both reportbug and -ng to stay)
<Hobbsee> andrew_sayers: no, actually.
<Hobbsee> andrew_sayers: -ng can go.
<Hobbsee> the standard reportbug goes to ubuntu by default, although it would be nice if people got given an error dialog, and told to use apport instead.
<Hobbsee> it's useful for reporting to debian, though
<andrew_sayers> Well, it goes to ubuntu-users.  Do those bugs actually get into the system then?
<Hobbsee> i doubt it.
<Hobbsee> so, fix that section, rather than killing the entire package.
<andrew_sayers> Why is it that people have to log in to report bugs, anyway?
<andrew_sayers> (in LP)
<pwnguin> andrew_sayers: anti spam
<andrew_sayers> Hrumph.
<pwnguin> not to mention that the bug reporter needs to stay on the line
<pwnguin> drive by bug reports are almost worthless
 * andrew_sayers has philosophical problems with this approach
<andrew_sayers> What about sending reports to ubuntu-motu instead?
<pwnguin> to paraphrase linus torvalds, often the person who finds the bug is different than the person who understands it, who is also different from the person who can fix it.
<andrew_sayers> At least then it might annoy someone into doing something about it.
<pwnguin> bug trackers like bugzilla and LP are designed to bring these minds together
<andrew_sayers> Yeah, I just don't like speedbumps, especially with bugreports.
<pwnguin> the thing is, you might need the guy who found the bug to retest
<pwnguin> if he walks away, now what?
<pwnguin> bug reporters dont subscribe to ubuntu-motu
<andrew_sayers> Similarly, if he walks away rather than log in, you gain nothing.
<pwnguin> they'll never find that thread
<andrew_sayers> Thinking of and remembering a password, deciding to hand over personal information, etc. is a decent-sized obstacle when you're doing something where you'll be lucky to get gratification from it for months.
<andrew_sayers> But they won't find the thread on #ubuntu-users either?
<pwnguin> dont we have cookies for this?
<andrew_sayers> Er, the ubuntu-users ML.
<pwnguin> and openID consuming?
<andrew_sayers> Only for people that have filed a bug before.
<Hobbsee> andrew_sayers: no point sending it to -motu, everyone would just unsubscribe.
<andrew_sayers> Hobbsee: you mean actual MOTUs would unsubscribe from the list?
<Hobbsee> likely.
<Hobbsee> andrew_sayers: do a straw poll about how many ubuntu developers are subscribed to -devel-discuss.
<pwnguin> is that info not public?
<Hobbsee> andrew_sayers: they're volunteers, don't get paid, and so will ignore / unsubscribe from any list with a low s/n ratio.
<andrew_sayers> Then does sending it to -users cause users to unsubscribe?
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: it probably is
<Hobbsee> i certainly agree it should be changed from sending to -users
<Hobbsee> but please, fix it so it sends to launchpad, not to some developer mailing list.
<pwnguin> hmm
<Hobbsee> (which is why hardly anyone replies to -devel-discuss who is actually a developer, let alone a paid one, incidently.
<Hobbsee> )
<pwnguin> you should see the kernel team
<Hobbsee> i don't deal in kernels :)
<andrew_sayers> While we're on the topic, would I get shouted at for bringing ideas to the -devel list that are, well, somewhat developed?
<pwnguin> all it ever is "pull request"
<Hobbsee> andrew_sayers: don't think so - you will get moderated though, and the moderation queue is going thru very slowly.
<Hobbsee> andrew_sayers: depends if you're actually wanting to implement them, or hoping someone else will
<andrew_sayers> Hmm, okay.  I'll stick it on the back of my queue :)
<andrew_sayers> I'll probably do it myself, although I may now have to learn Python to do it :s
 * Hobbsee dealt with 700 spam form there a few days ago.
<andrew_sayers> Crazy idea: you do hear about people who say "I'd like to help but I'm not a dev".  Would they be up for doing some simple triaging of a -bugs ML?
<Hobbsee> some will
<pwnguin> there already is a BTS
<Hobbsee> others, when you give them the idea of doing actual work, will just run away.
<andrew_sayers> Yeah, I've been on both ends of that request at times.
<Hobbsee> a lot go "ooh, developers.  FIX MY BUG NOW, ELSE I'LL LEAVE"
<andrew_sayers> pwnguin: when you say there's already a BTS, you mean LP?
<Hobbsee> or go "because iv'e $done this for you, you should fix all my pet bugs right now"
<pwnguin> andrew_sayers: at the time, i meant debian bts
<andrew_sayers> And sadly, they tend break that promise.
<andrew_sayers> pwnguin: ah, okay.
<pwnguin> but it applies to LP as well I guess
<pwnguin> if you have an objection to LP, im afraid it's rather central to the distribution they founded
<andrew_sayers> Well, my central objection is philosophical, so I don't expect it to go anywhere.  I'm getting rather attached to the idea of a -bugs list though.
<pwnguin> a BTS can do things a simple ML cannot do easily
<andrew_sayers> Ah right, I'm not being clear.
<pwnguin> translate -bugs mail into LP reports?
<andrew_sayers> My idea is things get sent to a list, then subscribers upgrade to LP.
<pwnguin> and then they subscribe someone not in LP to the bug?
<andrew_sayers> I suppose so.
<pwnguin> we can't just leave the reporter out of the loop -- they hold a critical piece of the puzzle, and often triage involves asking questions
<andrew_sayers> True.  -bugs subscribers would have to have some guidelines about throwing away bugs that don't have anyone willing to answer questions.
<pwnguin> oh heres a good reason for LP over a basic ML
<pwnguin> dupe suggestion
<andrew_sayers> Oh, I completely agree that an ML is no use for *managing* bugs.
<pwnguin> then what are you doing with this ML?
<pwnguin> appeasing people who feel adverse about signing up for another account / password but are fine with using a regular email account?
<andrew_sayers> I'm saying bugs get reported through an ML then upgraded to LP by volunteers (who I am assuming will exist).
<andrew_sayers> Plus giving somewhere for reportbug to send things to.
<andrew_sayers> If it were just the former, I wouldn't bother - it's quite a long way down my list of things that would be different if I ruled the world ;)
<pwnguin> may i ask, what is offensive about accounts that isn't solved by openID consumption?
<andrew_sayers> Not everyone has OpenID.
<pwnguin> im not sure about that ;)
<pwnguin> everyone on the planet seems to be opening up openID provision
<andrew_sayers> TBH, I'm not really sure how OpenID works.  If you got an ID when you installed Ubuntu and it was integrated with reportbug, that would be fine.
<pwnguin> andrew_sayers: i think fundamentally, reportbug is a debian BTS tool, and Ubuntu by design doesn't use BTS =/
<pwnguin> andrew_sayers: launchpad exports openID
<pwnguin> andrew_sayers: if everyone who installed ubuntu got an open id....
<pwnguin> err, LP account
<pwnguin> andrew_sayers: trouble is, it doesn't consume openID as far as i can recall
<andrew_sayers> Incidentally, to what degree are you asking about the principle of asking for ID when reporting bugs, as opposed to the specifics of it in Ubuntu?
<pwnguin> hmm. this gets tricky in general. is email ID?
<andrew_sayers> I'm just asking so I know how to frame my response :)
<andrew_sayers> My general issue isn't with ID, it's with speedbumps.
<andrew_sayers> Filing a bug should involve clicking on "file a bug", then typing your bug in.  Anything more than that and you start to lose signal.
<pwnguin> dont we already have more bugs than we can handle?
<andrew_sayers> Personally, I prefer not to lose any signal no matter how much noise I keep with it, but that's where the debate starts to become philosophical.
<andrew_sayers> Probably, yes.  And I'm not volunteering to make my way practical, which is another reason I wouldn't bother if it was just that.
<andrew_sayers> Hobbsee: how would you feel about the package being renamed to something like report-debian-bug?  I suspect part of the problem is the authoritative-sounding name?
<pwnguin> if you have more noise you MUST have some way of dealing with it
<pwnguin> "add more people" is probably not the right answer when we already losing the people:bugs war
<andrew_sayers> pwnguin: unless you can draft people that weren't previously in the war - hence getting users in to do some basic triage.
<pwnguin> we dont do that now?
<andrew_sayers> If I were a user that wanted to pitch in, where would I go to start triaging bugs that need more info/don't know which package they're targeted at/etc.?
<pwnguin> #ubuntu-bugs?
<pwnguin> anything categorized "new"?
<pwnguin> 50 percent of ubuntu bugs are in the new state. i kinda wish someone would publish reports on how many have comments etc
<pwnguin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage
<pwnguin> until there's evidence that triage isn't the bottleneck, i think pumping in more signal before that won't help =/
<pwnguin> also, im not sure its a good thing that that "untriaged" list is sorted LIFO
<andrew_sayers> If we're seriously talking about ways of getting more people to do bug triage, is there any value in being able to subscribe to, say, all untriaged bugs more than 7 days old?
<pwnguin> i assume subscribe is not an LP specific term used here
<andrew_sayers> Not when I use it, no.
<pwnguin> well, there's general fairness
<pwnguin> obviously at 8 thousand reports you may be looking at some stale data
<andrew_sayers> I'm thinking that you'd only get notified when there's activity - you don't subscribe then get 8,000 messages in your inbox.
<andrew_sayers> Subscribing to all untriaged bugs over N days old would let people that wanted to chip in pick up the slack for any reports that were viable but not being attended to.
<andrew_sayers> (Again I'm assuming there's a well of untapped talent)
<pwnguin> im confused here, are we talking about the current triage process?
<andrew_sayers> How about I lay out what I think I'm saying?
<pwnguin> the problem with untriaged bugs is generally that they're not getting any activity
<andrew_sayers> (Which probably bears little relation to what I'm actually saying)
<andrew_sayers> The problem with the specific case of reportbug is that there's nowhere useful for bugs to be sent, because reportbug doesn't require you to log in, but the only useful place in Ubuntu does require that.
<andrew_sayers> That problem could be solved either by having some place to report bugs that doesn't require a login, or by rot-13ing the package name, so people don't see it unless they know what they're looking for.
<pwnguin> or it could be solved by replacing it with something that does log in. apport would be relevant code there
 * rockstar votes for rot13 twice, for double the encryption
<andrew_sayers> If you want reportbug removed from Ubuntu, feel free to tempt Hobbsee's wrath again :p
<andrew_sayers> I'm still not sure what the best place is for Ubuntu bugs reported with reportbug, but since reporting bugs to Ubuntu with reportbug is a bug in itself, I think it should go to the maintainer (ubuntu-motu).
<pwnguin> im reasonably certain that debian is the only upstream for reportbug and they wouldn't accept patches for making it LP friendly
<white> why not?
<andrew_sayers> Fundamentally, I don't think you can make RB play nice with LP - one is designed for anonymous bug reports, the other not.
<white> what is the problem with introducing a commandline option --ubuntu or something and make it send it to the LP, instead of the debian BTS?
<pwnguin> white: because BTS is email oriented and LP is http?
<pwnguin> unless im missing something
<white> doesn't LP accept emails?
<pwnguin> that depends
<pwnguin> officially it only accepts signed email
<pwnguin> unofficially, it stopped checking that a year ago and nobody noticed
<white> what is a normal user doing, who just wants to report "a" bug in ubuntu, without starting to become a developer?>
<pwnguin> but im not sure that you can report a new bug via email
<andrew_sayers> white: right now, you need a username/password (or OpenID) to report a bug.
<pwnguin> does LP accept open ID?
<andrew_sayers> I thought you said it did?
<andrew_sayers> Okay, maybe not.
<wgrant> You can perform pretty much any action to LP bugs via email.
<pwnguin> file new?
<wgrant> Unsigned email is accepted (for comments), but only signed email can modify existing bugs or file new ones.
<wgrant> Of course.
<wgrant> See requestsync.
<andrew_sayers> wgrant: Signed - does there have to be a trust path?
<wgrant> andrew_sayers: No. It just has to be a key associated with a Launchpad account.
<pwnguin> which deafeats his bug
<pwnguin> andrews dies of speedbump poisoning
 * andrew_sayers was so close
<andrew_sayers> wgrant: what happens if there's no signature/an unknown key?  Do they get an explanation?
<wgrant> andrew_sayers: I forget. I think they do, though.
<andrew_sayers> What's the address?  I'll bounce a message at it and see.
<wgrant> new@bugs.launchpad.net for a new bug, or somebugnumber@bugs.launchpad.net
<LucidFox> What is the quickest way to convert a file with CR+LF line ends to just LF?
<pwnguin> dos2unix?
<LucidFox> pwnguin> thanks!
<pwnguin> this is nessecary knowledge to grade OS projects gained after semesters of students writing UNIX code in Visual Studio
<wgrant> pwnguin: Don't you need a knife for that/them?
<pwnguin> scars might last forever, but the pain is only temporary
<pwnguin> failing grades on the other hand, never stop hurting ;)
<wgrant> Heheh.
<andrew_sayers> pwnguin: on the issue of principle - I think that speedbumps are wrong.  The fact that I don't have a practical solution for maximising signal without overwhelming devs with noise is secondary.
<andrew_sayers> pwnguin: compare this to someone saying that they think killing is wrong, but accept that war is sometimes inevitable.  I'm well aware of the limitations of my good intentions :)
<pwnguin> i think declaring something a speedbump is silly. either its important or it is not
<andrew_sayers> Well, having a mechanism to contact a submitter is important.  Asking them for that information is a speedbump.
<andrew_sayers> (for example)
<andrew_sayers> An alternative mechanism would be to accept unsigned e-mail bugs, but bounce back a "was this you?" like when you subscribe to an ML.  That would let you subscribe an address to a bug without a password etc.
<pwnguin> isnt that also a speedbump?
<andrew_sayers> Yes, but less so.
<andrew_sayers> a) it doesn't occur until after you've submitted your bug - by that time you're no longer looking for the box to vent at.
<andrew_sayers> b) it's just clicking a link and a button to get information about one specific bug.  That's psychologically very different to creating an account on a website that will last until the end of time and bother you every time you think about passwords.
<pwnguin> heh, they'll know forever that the_prodler couldnt get sftp working from gftp
<andrew_sayers> Yeah, but given that the_prodler is centre of his universe, he assumes that everyone will be googling for that the moment he types it in.
<andrew_sayers> On the issue of triaging practice - I have a suspicion that there are users out there willing to give some time but who don't think they can do anything useful.
<andrew_sayers> If I'm right, they could be put to work triaging, if you could design an UI that talked to that sort of person.  As always, I have plenty of ideas about what it would look like, most of which rubbish :)
<pwnguin> the thing is
<pwnguin> this happenes from time to time and they DO get pointed at triage
<andrew_sayers> As in, someone says on a users ML, "I'd like to help out", and people point them over there?
<andrew_sayers> How does that usually work out?
<pwnguin> i donno -- i dont triage ;)
<andrew_sayers> :p
<andrew_sayers> Anyway, those are my issues - to recap, I definitely think reportbug should be renamed, and also that it should go to ubuntu-motu, with a big warning saying "the fact that this goes here is a bug"...
<andrew_sayers> I'd quite like to see an anonymous e-mail-based reporting mechanism, perhaps involving subscribing to specific bugs without a password.  If that happened, I'd suggest reportbug should use it, but I'm not holding my breath.
<pwnguin> there will always be a record that the_prodler@hotmail.com .. etc but whatever
<andrew_sayers> Yeah, okay - anonymous is the wrong word.  Do you see the psychological difference by the way?
<pwnguin> actually, i think some people are more concerned about publishing their email address than a pseudonym
<andrew_sayers> Can people get my e-mail address out of LP?
<LucidFox> andrew_sayers> not by default
<pwnguin> if you have a public key published, probably, but that's not the sort of thing anonymous fly by reporters would do
<andrew_sayers> Phew.  For a moment there, I thought everyone was going to find out I didn't like reportbug :)
<pwnguin> im pretty sure debian BTS publishes though by default
<andrew_sayers> Yeah, I went through a handful of Debian-related addresses before I realised they don't believe in stripping addresses.
<pwnguin> mostly, i think this counts as sweating the small stuff. in terms of fixing bugs, missing a few reports because of new account anxiety is a speed bump placed before a gigantic mountain of untriaged bugs
<andrew_sayers> To some extent - this goes back to "killing is wrong but wars happen" thing.
<andrew_sayers> To be fair, I've been very impressed by speediness of Ubuntu bug turnarounds compared to Debian, and once you know that's what you're getting, it's well worth the hassle in my opinion.
<andrew_sayers> Actually, going back to reportbug for a minute - is there any way that reportbug could download LP bugs?
<andrew_sayers> If not, reporting bugs to Ubuntu makes even less sense, because there's no way to check for dupes.
<pwnguin> not that anyone follows it
<pwnguin> look at how many dupes xulrunner / sqllite have
<andrew_sayers> What would be a better name for reportbug?
<andrew_sayers> debian-bug?
<pwnguin> the package or binary?
<andrew_sayers> Package.
<pwnguin> did you do a rdep on that?
<andrew_sayers> No, how do I do that?
<pwnguin> or were you intending to move the current reportbug and provide a different package?
<pwnguin> apt-cache rdepends reportbug
<andrew_sayers> That sounds like a bug in itself.
<pwnguin> what?
<andrew_sayers> Why would apt-cache depend on a package that's useless in Ubuntu?
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> no
<pwnguin> that's how you do an rdepends
<andrew_sayers> Oh, ah :)
<andrew_sayers> Anyway, I'm trying to think of a name for the package that won't (a) fool half-asleep ex-Debian users like me, and (b) won't suggest "this is how you report bugs" to people trolling the repositories.
<andrew_sayers> But preferably not actually rot-13ing it.
<pwnguin> how about you make it clear in the description that its for reporting bugs to debian?
<pwnguin> anyways, if you ignore the speedbump for the moment, im not sure all that's nessecary
<StevenK> Personally, I still use reportbug, but only for reporting Debian bugs
<andrew_sayers> pwnguin: the package name isn't a speedbump - it's a cause of bugs.
<andrew_sayers> How about this though...
<pwnguin> im just saying, if you accept that they have gpg keys and lp accounts, report bug might not need to leave to work
<pwnguin> the gpg key part is probably not true
<andrew_sayers> Yeah - people with all that are already using LP.
<andrew_sayers> How about we e-mail ubuntu-motu and ask if they mind a noise level of 1 bug report/month from reportbug, then change the address it uses from #ubuntu-users to #ubuntu-motu...
<andrew_sayers> with a big warning in each message, pointing to a standing bug that says "change the package name/have extra hand-holding/do something if the noise rate goes above 1 bug/month".
<pwnguin> you should probably write a clear statement of the problem, and then propose that fix
<pwnguin> ubuntu-motu already gets some bugmail from the maintainer field
<andrew_sayers> All right, better log in to LP then.  Now where did I put my birth certificate...
<pwnguin> you know, there's cookies and such
<pwnguin> that lesson this pain
<pwnguin> lessen even
<andrew_sayers> It's the account creation thing I really don't like, not signing in so much.
<pwnguin> ideally, openID is good enough to fix that at some bright point in the future
<andrew_sayers> Yeah, true.
<andrew_sayers> I'm well aware that I'm tilting at windmills with some of this stuff.
<pwnguin> current practice seems to be to request bugmail directed at motu go to LP, manually
<RAOF> Anyone here familiar with writing module-assistant rules?
<jussi01> Ummm, when will we get the: "This user is only for the REVU service. contact root on problems." fixed?
<jussi01> its very annoying...
<sebner> wb pochu =)
<andrew_sayers> pwnguin: I've now written the bug up at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/reportbug/+bug/231316 - I'd appreciate it if you had a look over it at some point, but I'm going to bed, so no hurry :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 231316 in reportbug "Bugs should be sent to ubuntu-motu for a trial period" [Undecided,New]
<sebner> pochu: /me waves. FF RC1 \o/
<sebner> \sh: is it also raining in germany?
<emgent> heya
<\sh>  sebner:yes in south germany it's raining
<bobbo> LucidFox: ping
<LucidFox> bobbo> yes?
<bobbo> LucidFox: sorry, worked out what i was going to ask you :)
<LucidFox> ah
<LucidFox> bobbo> When I tried to upload -7ubuntu1, it said it was already uploaded to Feisty
<LucidFox> turned out -7ubuntu1 was removed and then replaced with-7
<LucidFox> which is beyond weird
<bobbo> ok, uploading a debdiff with -ubuntu2 now
<LucidFox> thanks
<bobbo> LucidFox: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14571798/checky.debdiff
<LucidFox> yes, I saw that
<LucidFox> bobbo> Uploaded
<bobbo> LucidFox: thanks :D
<LucidFox> bobbo> in the future, please include the bug being fixed in the changelog, like this: (LP: #184084)
<LucidFox> this way, it will be automatically closed for that package
<bobbo> LucidFox: ah yeah, sorry, this is my first upload in a while so im a bit rusty
 * Hobbsee smacks andrew_sayers
 * Hobbsee subscribed motu to the bug, to be sure of getting lots of opinions, on the same sort of thing
<albert23> Hobbsee: bug 231236 seems to be a SRU problem from bug 229922, which was moved to -updates too early. Can you please take a look?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 231236 in totem-pl-parser "libtotem-plparser10 Will not install." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/231236
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229922 in totem-pl-parser "2.22.3 stable update" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229922
<Hobbsee> albert23: i'm not on the -sru team....
<pochu> albert23: that's in main. I suggest you ask in #ubuntu-desktop
<albert23> Hobbsee: you are mentioned in the sru procedure for regressions
<bobbo> LucidFox: checky just FTBFS; http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14571972/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.checky_2.5-7ubuntu2_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
<LucidFox> bobbo> that's not checky's fault
<wgrant> Erk, that's really really bad.
<LucidFox> buildds have been faulty lately
<Hobbsee> albert23: really?  where?
<albert23> Hobbsee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<bobbo> LucidFox: so what happens with the update now?
<albert23> Hobbsee: under procedure bullet 6
<LucidFox> bobbo> The build will be restarted when the servers are fixed, that's all
<bobbo> LucidFox: ah ok, cool :)
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Aren't you ubuntu-release, so > motu-sru?
<Hobbsee> albert23: that applies to main SRU's, it looks like.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: yes, technically, I, or other release managers, could override it
<Hobbsee> In the event of a regression, immediately notify the [WWW] Ubuntu Technical Board via email, and ask for help on #ubuntu-devel in making urgent contact with a member of the Board or the SRU team: state the problem, the bug number, and ping "slangasek, Riddell, Hobbsee, pitti, mdz, Keybuk, cjwatson, keescook, jdstrand, BenC, dendrobates, davidm". For SRU in universe/multiverse, contact the [WWW] Universe SRU Team team or ask for help on #
<Hobbsee> ubuntu-motu instead.
<albert23> Hobbsee: Yes, and totem-pl-parser is in main
<Hobbsee> ah
<cody-somerville> Whats up?
<Hobbsee> albert23: grrrr.
<albert23> Hobbsee: I am not sure it is serious enough to make a lot of noise. A held update would not be very serious, but comment 11 seems more important. And I think it might even affect Gutsy->Hardy updates, which would be bad.
<wgrant> It will break Gutsy->Hardy upgrades.
<Riddell> albert23: how did it get into -updats?
<albert23> Riddell: by mistake
<wgrant> Though probably before the upgrade actually properly starts.
<wgrant> I guess pitti didn't check that the rbuild-depends hadn't changed :(
<Hobbsee> albert23: this has happened before.
<albert23> There is an SRU for evolution-data-server pending, which would fix this, bug 228107
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 228107 in evolution-data-server "evolution crashed when connecting to groupwise" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/228107
<Hobbsee> albert23: that will get hit on any update.
<Hobbsee> Riddell: can you get it fixed please?
<Riddell> albert23: is there a fix for this totem-pl-parser issue?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: got any proposals on how?
<albert23> Riddel: bug 228107 seems to provide these dependencies (but I did not check if it wold cause new dependency issues)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: shove the 2 rdepends into hardy-updates too.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 228107 in evolution-data-server "evolution crashed when connecting to groupwise" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/228107
<Hobbsee> Riddell: shlibs, when building for -proposed, has picked up the newer dep versions.
 * Hobbsee has listed them in the bug.
<wgrant> You could shove the rdepends in, or remove the new one that won't install, as nobody can have it installed.
<sebner> Hobbsee: kopete sucks, I rebuild pidgin against perl 5.10 at my own ;P
<Hobbsee> sebner: haha.
<Hobbsee> sebner: well, for an irc client...
 * Riddell reloads and finds Hobbsee's comment
<sebner> Hobbsee: I also removed konversation. I also rebuilded xchat against perl 5.10 ^^
<Hobbsee> bah.
<sebner> GNOME/GTK ftw!!! xD
<Riddell> hmm, pitti is in a session for the next half hour, I'd rather check with him before moving that evolution-data-server update
<Riddell> if someone wants to confirm that e-d-s bug it would be handy :)
<albert23> Riddel: I wanted to do that, but you will need groupwise to do it right
<Riddell> mm, right
<albert23> Riddell: FWIW I just tested the update with -proposed enabled. Only libedataserver and libcamel were pulled from -proposed, which looks good to me.
<Riddell> thanks
<bgrupe> hi, what's the commandline to build all kernels in a batch (out of the kernel.git) like the buildbot does?
<Riddell> albert23, Hobbsee: seb has re-uploaded to -updates so it'll recompile against the right versions
<Hobbsee> Riddell: cool :)
<albert23> Riddell, Hobbsee: thanks for taking care of it
<grimko> hi all, I'd like to make a package for the mldonkey-server gui named "sancho"
<grimko> do you know who I should contact ? I'm qiute new to this
<grimko> anybody to help me making a .deb from a package ?
<k0p> grimko, from a package?
<grimko> I mean a software sorry
<grimko> its only a few files
<k0p> grimko, well. I don't have much experience with that. But I already make a package
<k0p> I'm working on it. I don't know the rules yet but I can give you a url that help you to do it
<grimko> no pb for that, the idea is to see if it's really interesting to put it in universe or whatever when its done
<grimko> its called "sancho" maybe you know it, its a gui for mldonkey-server, much better than mlgui indeed
<k0p> grimko, http://showmedo.com/videos/video?name=linuxJensMakingDeb&fromSeriesID=37
<k0p> I hope this video help you
<grimko> I'll have a look thx
<k0p> np
<sebner> huhu norsetto
<norsetto> sebner
<mok0> A lot of the Wiki material on Ubuntu development needs to be rewritten to incorporate the role of the new Ubuntu Contributor team. Any plans for doing that?
<crimsun> feel free to spearhead them.
<mok0> crimsun: I thought it would be good to have some kind of general discussion first
<crimsun> sure, what plans do you have in mind?
<mok0> crimsun: Well, for example, is it now such that UC is a step on the way to MOTU?
<crimsun> yes, it is a recognised step on that path.
<mok0> If so, the documentation should reflect that MOTU is "a contributor with upload rights"
<crimsun> agreed.
<mok0> ... and the next level would be a core developer
<mok0> who is "a motu with upload rights to main"
<mok0> (and more)
<crimsun> generally concur.  If you mention specific components for core-dev, then it's best to mention specific components for motu, too.
<mok0> What do we call the class of people who are not Ubuntu Contributors? Ubunteros?
<mok0> crimsun: you mean like, sound, printing, ...
<crimsun> people who aren't UCs include people without LP accounts and people known as Ubunteros.
<mok0> crimsun: In the context of the wiki, I don't think it makes sense to consider people w/o an LP account
<crimsun> mok0: no, "MOTU is a contributor with upload privileges to the universe and multiverse components" vice "core-dev is a contributor with upload privileges to the main, restricted, universe, and multiverse components"
<crimsun> precise wording is not set in stone, of course, just the component distinction.
<mok0> crimsun: so in principle, you could graduate from UC->core-dev?
<crimsun> mok0: I do not know, but currently I don't believe that's possible.
<crimsun> UC->MOTU->core
<mok0> crimsun: ok, that's what I thought (it didn't come across I guess)
<mok0> crimsun: I am not too happy about the "Ubuntu Contributor" name, because it is too generic. I would have preferred something more remarkable
<mok0> I suggested "Ubuntu Universe Astronauts" which I think fits in the general lingo and is a tribute to sabdfl
<mok0> :)
<LucidFox> "Maintainer: OHURA Makoto <ohura@debian.org>" - wait a minute, since when is there "hu" in Japanese?
<McRib> I am just curious about the status of Bug #228044.  I submitted it a few days ago and it's listed as being fixed in -proposed, but I can't install it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 228044 in mplayerplug-in "In Hardy, mozilla-mplayer depends on firefox-3.0 - does not accept firefox-2" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/228044
<crimsun> McRib: (output from dpkg here, please)
<McRib> crimsun: The command you gave me returned nothing.
<crimsun> McRib: apt-cache policy mozilla-mplayer
<McRib> crimsun: Ugh... nevermind.  They fixed it since I last tried with the -proposed activated.
<LucidFox> RainCT, you here?
<RainCT> LucidFox: yeh
<LucidFox> I'm afraid the sync in bug #229724 can't be performed right now because of a different orig.tar.gz
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229724 in glest-data "Please sync glest-data 3.1.0-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229724
<LucidFox> my fault, I know
<LucidFox> however, if you update it to upstream version 3.1.2, then it can be synced
<RainCT> LucidFox: same with glest or would it need a fakesync too?
<LucidFox> no, glest can be synced normally because the version is 3.0.0 in Ubuntu and 3.1.0 in Debian
<RainCT> LucidFox: oh.. and that works? :P
<RainCT> ah, well, shouldn't have changed much between 3.0 and 3.1
<mok0> OK, I have no more time right now. Anyone who wants to continue on this document, go right ahead! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuContributo
<mok0> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuContributor
<mok0> sorry
<norsetto> McRib: it would be appreciated if you can leave a feedback on the bug report. If we don't have +2 testing we won't upload the fix to hardy-updates
<McRib> norsetto: Alright, i'll do that.
<norsetto> McRib: thank you
<mok0> hey norsetto, you're still here?
<norsetto> mok0: yes, I'm always here :-)
<mok0> norsetto: I thought you had gone to Prague
<norsetto> mok0: oh no, I leave tomorrow
<mok0> Ah
<andrew_sayers> mok0: I don't have a specific change to make to that document, but I'm a little concerned about the focus on climbing the ladder and "what you can do for us".  It would be better if it was phrased in terms of "if you want to get X done, you should do Y".
<gord> hi, i'm not sure this is the place to tell this but libgtk2.0-dev seems to be out of date, is at version 2.12.9ubuntu2 whist libgtk2.0 is at 2.12.9ubuntu3 (and libgtk2.0-dev depends on the old ubuntu2 version, is therefore not installable)
<mok0> norsetto, take a look at the wiki page ^^^ I don't want to spend to much time on that before I know if people agree in the presentation (roughly)
<norsetto> mok0: sure
<mok0> gord: that sounds strange... impossible even
<gord> i'v tried a few different repositories and packages.ubuntu.com lists that -dev is at the ubuntu2 version too mok0
<norsetto> gord: libgtk2.0-0 | 2.12.9-3ubuntu4 | hardy-updates | amd64, i386
<norsetto> gord: libgtk2.0-dev | 2.12.9-3ubuntu4 | hardy-updates | amd64, i386
<mok0> gord: if you are using a mix of repositories, all bets are off
<gord> hrm, i only have (and have ever had) security updates listed, im not sure how this has happened. appologies
<mok0> gord: As long as they all come from the same ubuntu distro, things are fine
<mok0> -updates, -backports, -universe, -multiverse, etc. are all OK
<mok0> If you mix in 3rd party repos and/or PPA's ... you're on your own :-)
<norsetto> mok0: well, this is not really true "Core Developers are recruited among the most dedicated and active MOTUs"
<gord> clean install, ubuntu repos, just universe/multiverse and securty. im not sure how this happened but enabling hardy-updates too  seems to have fixed it
<mok0> norsetto: yeah, I was sort of thinking that it may become like that :-)
<mok0> norsetto: but please feel free to fix it
<norsetto> mok0: I fail to see what is in there which is not in here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<mok0> norsetto: ah
<mok0> norsetto: I hadn't realized it had been updated
<mok0> norsetto: I think they could be merged
<norsetto> anyone here using FF 2.0?
<kolby_> I want a mixed system that I can modify and keep those modifications.
<kolby_> I need to learn how to make patches...
<kolby_> I want to keep my packages compatible for updates while being able to change them and keep those changes... How should I go about this?
<norsetto> kolby_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
 * norsetto wonders if ubottu has it in its db
<norsetto> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<norsetto> oh yes ...
<norsetto> ubottu: you know I love you, don't you?
<ubottu> norsetto: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<kolby_> lol.
<norsetto> ubottu: I don't love you because you are intelligent, I love you because you are nice looking, you fool ...
<ubottu> norsetto: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<jussi01> norsetto: we have everything in there :)
<kolby_> so.. I should make a package of the patch or what?
<norsetto> kolby_: you download the source package, patch it , build it and then install it. Its all in there
<bgrupe> I've got a little packaging question as well. I use the ubuntu hardy kernel git to build custom kernel debs. Is there a neat little command to build all kernel flavors to debs in a batch?
<kolby_> norsetto: so how easy is it to keep the packages updated and my modification intact at the same time.
<kolby_> ?
<norsetto> kolby_: everytime there is an update you will have to re-apply your patches of course (unless you don't care about the update)
<kolby_> norsetto: okay, well that's not so bad
<norsetto> kolby_: if your updates will benefit the community at large, the best will obvioulsy be to get them included in the official package
<kolby_> norsetto: well, I agree, but I doubt they would be signifigant.  If I came up with bug fixes or made this software work faster, than I would definately submit them... otherwise I would just make a website with the mods available.
<sebner> norsetto: having fun with the bot, he? ^^
<norsetto> !sebner
<ubottu> Factoid sebner not found
<norsetto> sebner: you see, you are nobody :-)
<sebner> norsetto: O_o that was deep xD
<kolby_> !cookies
<ubottu> Factoid cookies not found
<kolby_> :(
<norsetto> jussi01: you should update your list of ubotu factoids to ubottu?
<jdavies> norsetto: http://jussi01.com/web/
<sebner> !hug norsetto
<ubottu> Factoid hug norsetto not found
<sebner> -.-
<sebner> ubottu: you suck xD
<ubottu> Factoid you suck xd not found
<RogerWard> ubottu: 42
<ubottu> Factoid 42 not found
<RogerWard> aww, now thats a shame
<jussi01> RogerWard: I turned those off, sorry
<jussi01> !hug
<ubottu> Factoid hug not found
<RogerWard> np, would prob get used like a joke machine, if it worked all the time
<jussi01> RogerWard: yeah, we have good bandwidth on it, but its not somethig we want to abuse ;)
 * norsetto reads bug 231421 and silently cry
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 231421 in mplayer "mplayer plugin for firefox can't play midi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/231421
<sebner> norsetto: mplayer doesn't like you
<ScottK> Who decided on pulse-audio by default and will they be at UDS?
<laga> sounds dangerous
<ScottK> Not unless you decided on pulse-audio by default.  Seems to me like exactly the sort of huge infrastructure change one ought not do for an LTS release.
 * norsetto sits down and opens a bug of chips, hoping for a good show
<bgrupe> ScottK: what's wrong with PulseAudio?
<ScottK> There are quite a number of applications that are having audio trouble in Hardy.
<ScottK> The first one to really bite me (just now when I least need it as I'm getting ready to leave for the airport to go to UDS) is Skype.
<bgrupe> just switch back to pure alsa for the moment if you need it :-)
<ScottK> Fedora folks apparently are having a lot of trouble too.  It's not Ubuntu specific.
<ScottK> Generally the one that works should be the default.
<bgrupe> I'd agree it should have been included but disabled by default
<ScottK> This isn't going to do pulse any good either.
<pwnguin> on the other hand, what better motivation to fix it is there? ;)
<ScottK> pwnguin: Not in an LTS release.
<pwnguin> wasnt pulse shipped in gutsy?
<ScottK> For many people there initialy impression about pulse is it's cr@p that makes my stuff not work.
<laga> is there a GUI mixer for pulseaudio?
<ScottK> pwnguin: It wasn't default.
<pwnguin> ScottK: and look how many people were interested in fixing it then ;)
 * laga already has that impression although he'd be knowledgeable enough to fix it.
<ScottK> pwnguin: I'm motivated to learn how to remove it from my system right now.
<pwnguin> well, thats as far as that devil's advocation can go i think
<bgrupe> ScottK: the ubuntu wiki has some instructions
<ScottK> bgrupe: Yes.  And after I'm in Prague or if I get wifi in an airport I'll look into it.  Apt will be my first tool of choice.
<pwnguin> here's an interesting question: a package in universe is somewhere between broken and horribly broken depending on the user's circumstances, and upstream is outraged that their latest release which fixes it isnt in hardy. SRU the patch or backport it?
<bgrupe> ScottK: no need to use apt even, I think
<ScottK> bgrupe: It's the safest approach.
<norsetto> The PulseAudio daemon and utilities are still under heavy development. Although they are generally considered stable, they haven't seen enough testing to warrant a first completely stable release.
<ScottK> pwnguin: Ask motu-sru, but if there's a sane patch, I'd go with that.  I'd also engage in a useful dialogue with upstream on how to avoid such problems in the future.
<bgrupe> pwnguin: just wondering, which package is it?
<pwnguin> xournal
<TheMuso> ScottK: I thought you used KDE, which doesn't use pulseaudio afaik.
<pwnguin> ScottK: the obvious result of a discussion is that users file bugs upstream
<ScottK> TheMuso: I do use KDE.  I haven't really looked into it, but my problems are suspciously similar to what the pulse users are complaining about.
<pwnguin> ScottK: or rather, ubuntu users do and should probably stop
<ScottK> pwnguin: Promise to help with getting the latest release in backports if they help you with a minimal fix for SRU.
<TheMuso> ScottK: If you use KDE, as far as I know, pulseaudio should not be running it. If it was enabled for KDe as well, then I wasn't involved in that decision.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I'll play with it some more.
<TheMuso> Hell I didn't decide to turn it on by default for GNOME either. I have to deal with the fallout however.
<ScottK> Do you know who did?
<norsetto> pwnguin: thats a typical problem when packages get into ubuntu and nobody looks after them
<TheMuso> Well no one person, it was a result of the cleanup audio jumble specification. Martin switched esound out for pulseaudio at the beginning of the hardy cycle, but of course more issues came to light once many more users tested it out unfrotunately.
<pwnguin> norsetto: right.
<ScottK> The proper solution is to get it into Debian with a maintainer that's interested.
<TheMuso> Because of course, with these things, it works for developers.
<TheMuso> if it didn't, it would be fied for them at least.
<pwnguin> ScottK: xournal or pulse?
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> pwnguin: xournal
<laga> ScottK: why can't it have a proper maintainer in ubuntu? it's a bit sad that a "proper" solution requires ubuntu developers to become debian developers ;)
 * norsetto is more and more convinced that we should stop getting new packages into ubuntu
<pwnguin> laga: i agree it's annoying how often fixing ubuntu blocks on debian
<TheMuso> norsetto: No kidding. a few of us thought that a couple of cycles ago.
<ScottK> laga: If someone is interested enough, it's fine in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> pwnguin: It doesn't in this case.
<ScottK> It doesn't in any case.  It's just that often it's the most efficient approach that brings benifit to the most users.
<norsetto> TheMuso: yes, but then nobody does anything about it, I think this is really worth a discussion at UDS
<TheMuso> norsetto: I am affraid it will be hard to get past Daniel and Jono.
<TheMuso> From te impression I get at least.
<TheMuso> norsetto: When do you arrive BTW?
<norsetto> TheMuso: just few days ago I had a discussion with one upstream that packaged his s*it for ubuntu, and now doesn't even update it , and he raises bugs in launchpad "pls. update it ..."
<ScottK> TheMuso: Fortunately they have no official decision making power in Ubuntu.  At most Daniel is one vote on MC and MC doesn't decide MOTU policy.
<norsetto> TheMuso: I'll be there tomorrow, I hope 16:00 at the Hotel
<ScottK> See you all later.  I'm off to do the non-electronic part of my packing.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Yeah but they are really pushing the whole packaging jam thing all over the damn place.
<norsetto> ScottK: see you tomorrow
<TheMuso> ScottK: See you whenever you get here. :)
<ScottK> Sunday late PM
<norsetto> see you when I see you ....
<ScottK> Assuming it's all on schedule.
<TheMuso> norsetto: Looking forward to meeting you also.
<norsetto> TheMuso: yes!
<TheMuso> ScottK, norsetto, ust a note, food here is quite expensive. hell beer is cheaper than water and soft drinks.
<norsetto> TheMuso: thats good news and bad news all in one piece :-/
<TheMuso> norsetto: heh yeah.
 * ScottK double checks to make sure the passport he is taking is his own ...
<norsetto> ScottK: don't bring your M41, they may object at check-in
<ScottK> Due to children living in the house, I consider gun ownership to be more risk than benifit at this time.
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: In #231316, how would you solve the issue with LP requiring an LP account, but reportbug(-ng) not doing?
<norsetto> bug 231316
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 231316 in reportbug "Bugs should be sent to ubuntu-motu for a trial period" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/231316
<andrew_sayers> Wow, I've been disavowed by ubottu.
<andrew_sayers> That's harsh.
<bimberi> nah, just didn't say the magic word ... bug
<andrew_sayers> Hmm... 231316
<andrew_sayers> bug 231316
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 231316 in reportbug "Bugs should be sent to ubuntu-motu for a trial period" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/231316
<bimberi> :)
<andrew_sayers> blah blah bug blah blah blah://blah/231316/ blah
<andrew_sayers> Hmm, fair enough.
<norsetto> TheMuso: any chance you could relook at bug 230662 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230662 in gecko-mediaplayer "gecko-mediaplayer depends on firefox metapackage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230662
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: I'd say a few bugs bouncing off LP is better than most of them getting lost in a mailing list.
<sebner> ScottK: courier -> next week, right?
<andrew_sayers> When you say "bouncing off", what are you picturing?
<andrew_sayers> Like a bounce e-mail?
<ScottK> sebner: Yes.  Hopefully while I'm at UDS.
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: Yes.
<sebner> ScottK: during UDS? \o/
<ScottK> Before you ask andrew_sayers, if LP bounces and spams random strangers, that's an LP bug that the LP devs can worry about.
<nxvl> ScottK: at what time your plane leaves?
<ScottK> It's not unique to having reportbug talk there.
<ScottK> 2120 -0400
<ScottK> I'm leaving for the airport very shortly.
<nxvl> oh yes
<nxvl> i forgot i was un +02:00
<sebner> ScottK: have a nice flight and nice week ;)
<ScottK> Thanks.
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: I've yet to get any response from e-mails sent to LP, so that would require a (minor) change of LP behaviour, but if we're only talking about a handful of bugs every year, I don't mind that solution.
<StevenK> ScottK: Hopefully you have a better flight than me
<ScottK> Heh.
<andrew_sayers> ScottK: OTOH, if lots of bugs are getting filed wrongly through reportbug, that needs more serious attention.
 * ScottK doesn't want to know how bad it was until AFTER he flys
<StevenK> ScottK: Sure.
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: LP needs to expose a useful interface.  Until then we are stuck.
<StevenK> ScottK: Ask me when you see me.
 * ScottK will.
<ScottK> andrew_sayers: Picking a better mail list really changes nothing.
<andrew_sayers> That's where we get back to my original question - should that UI require a valid LP account?
<sebner> norsetto: you are the conky hero =)
<andrew_sayers> Well, it changes who gets annoyed - from confused randomers to the package maintainers.
 * ScottK doesn't know.  What happens if LP gets signed mail from an address that's no in LP?
<ScottK> See you all later.
<andrew_sayers> I'll talk to you about this after UDS then :)
<norsetto> sebner: not really, I just marked another 3 as invalid/won't fix, so we will get the usual trolls complaining
<norsetto> sebner: and there is bug 217455 which is still a mistery ....
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 217455 in conky "conky crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217455
<sebner> norsetto: true but I had no idea what to do and hoped master norsetto does and yes, he did \o/
<sebner> norsetto: It crashed on startup?
<norsetto> sebner: I suppose
<sebner> norsetto: *s* *t* *r* *a* *n* *g* *e*
<norsetto> sebner: it wouldn't actually be a bad idea to add an apport hook so that the .conkyrc file is automatically uploaded
<sebner> norsetto: ^^, you mean it could be b0rken?
<norsetto> sebner: hmm?
<sebner> norsetto: conkyrc. or can't this break the startup?
<rexbron> pochu: Ping, I think I fly into terminal 1
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Hi all. I saw a week ago or so a webpage talking about some tool to add to debian/rules to watch e.g. an upstream sourceforge.net site for new releases
<Le-Chuck_ITA> the tool is able to recognize version numbers for .tgz archives, and update a debian package for a new upstream release
<norsetto> sebner: dunno, thats why I'm asking
<Le-Chuck_ITA> problem is: I don't remember the name of the tool :)
<norsetto> Le-Chuck_ITA: thats a watch file
<norsetto> Le-Chuck_ITA: the utilities that are using this file are called uscan and uupdate
<norsetto> Le-Chuck_ITA: man uscan should give you all the gory details
<sebner> norsetto: hm. did you already comment?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> norsetto: great, thanks :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> norsetto: why is it not a good idea to have it in every universe package?
<norsetto> sebner: yes
<sebner> norsetto: k
<norsetto> Le-Chuck_ITA: who said it isn't ? It is and we are asking every new package to include it
<Le-Chuck_ITA> norsetto: great, then I will try to add one for xournal
<norsetto> Le-Chuck_ITA: please do, its appreciated
<sebner> norsetto: btw, a stupid question. I'm I right that a menu file isn deprecated and replaced by a .desktop file?
<sebner> *is deprecated
<norsetto> sebner: no
<sebner> norsetto: so it's still necessary?
<norsetto> sebner: we have desktop managers (ion3, etc.) which do not use desktop files but use menu's
<norsetto> sebner: yes
<sebner> norsetto: k, just was convinced to see some packages without one
<norsetto> sebner: if its a cli only application that it won't make sense to have either
<norsetto> sebner: problem is, in ubuntu we mainly care about .desktop since our default desktop manager is Gnome, in Debian they mainly care about menu
<sebner> norsetto: I see, so on REVU it won't get rejected without one?
<norsetto> sebner: it would be better to have it, but I don't think we can reject it. It will definetively be rejected in Debian (assuming that the application needs a menu entry obviously)
<sebner> norsetto: ok, thanks :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> norsetto: it is _so_ easy??? I already got my new upstream release!
<Le-Chuck_ITA> that's a great tool
<norsetto> Le-Chuck_ITA: magic ;-)
<sebner> Le-Chuck_ITA: the magic of opensource ;)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> yeah :)
<norsetto> g'night all
<Le-Chuck_ITA> night
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I go too
<sebner> gn8 folks :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA>    Bug #184996
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 184996 in xournal "Annotation tools are broken in hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184996
<Le-Chuck_ITA> please someone take a look
<Le-Chuck_ITA> a new upstream release for xournal would be useful, I attached to the bug report everything necessary but I have no developer rights :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> bye all and good night
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-18
<freeflying> I wonder have we rebuild all packages in universe before we release?
<persia_ume> freeflying: Ideally, we would, as there are many that have issues if not rebuilt.  Historically, we haven't due to the buildd processor load.  Please rebuild anything where you know it will have a positive effect.
<persia_ume> Note also that for FTBFS detection, there are universe rebuild logs available from ubuntuwire, although I wouldn't expect the first intrepid run until after DIF.
<freeflying> persia_ume: I found eva in hardy can not run
<persia_ume> freeflying: And it runs with a rebuild?  Sounds like an SRU candidate to me (although I'm not an SRU person)
<freeflying> persia_ume: ok, thanks, I'd like sync it from sid directly :)
<persia_ume> freeflying: A SY
 * persia_ume grumbles at mismath
<persia_ume> ched timn y keybaords
<persia_ume> freeflying: A sync?  What
<persia_ume> For hardy?  What changed?  Isn't there a simpler way for SRU?
<freeflying> persia_ume: eva in universe is really not in a good shape, was pacakged about 2 years ago, And recently I repacakge it, it in debian new queue, so I prefer to drop the one in universe, and sync it directly from debian :)
<persia_ume> freeflying: Understood.  For intrepid, that makes sense.  FOr hardy, I'd recommend getting the opinion of someone in motu-sru beforehand.
<freeflying> persia_ume: yes :)
<bluefoxicy> fuck
<bluefoxicy> Ubuntu was like, REBOOT
<bluefoxicy> and I'm like ?_?
<bluefoxicy> start tabbing around... system rebooted via gdm
<bluefoxicy> so while I'm looking at stuff on the net it just DECIDES it's a good idea to reboot
<freeflying> bluefoxicy: sure not
<AnAnt_> Hello, is there a way that I can know which physical volume does a logical volume map to ?
<Hobbsee> surely that's an #ubuntu question...
<AnAnt_> Hobbsee: ah, ok. I asked here because I need to do it for a package
<AnAnt_> Hobbsee: to install grub splash
<AlfaOmega08> Hello, I've a new deb package for nasm... From version 0.99 to 2.02. How can I upload it? I'm part of revu-uploaders group on Launchpad
<soren> AnAnt_: "lvdisplay -m" is your friend, though.
<AnAnt_> soren: thanks
<soren> np
<AlfaOmega08> Hello
<AlfaOmega08> I've send a new nasm package to revu
<AlfaOmega08> can someone review that package? Thanks
<bobbo> When syncing do you create a debdiff between the two ubuntu versions or the latest debian version and the new ubuntu version?
<bobbo> s/syncing/merging/
<Laney> bobbo: Both
<bobbo> Laney: ah, thanks :)
<sebner> persia: around?
<Hobbsee> sebner: probably not - they're out exploring cz today.
<sebner> Hobbsee: damn. whois says that he was active 8 min ago. but nvm :)
<Hobbsee> sebner: hmm, he may be around hacking, then.
<sebner> Hobbsee: kk, thanks. not that important :)
<persia> sebner: Yes, but delayed
<sebner> persia: nvm. just wanted to tell you that we *won* the gmsh fight =)
<persia> sebner: Fight?  Won?  Do you mean that my very old bug finally got closed, as an example of cooperation in the free software community?
<sebner> persia: yes ^^
<persia> \o/
<askand> Hi! I while ago I got help from this channel when making a debdiff for gmail-notify to fix a bug in gmail-notify. Now I want to fix bug 213367 but first I want to know if there is a reason iptcsupport has been left out? Anybody knows?
<sebner> persia: I added a comment and the maintainer accepted it \o/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 213367 in gthumb "build gthumb with IPTC data support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213367
<persia> sebner: Does the old .desktop file still validate, or did you update it?
<persia> askand: Have you reviewed /usr/share/doc/gthumb/changelog.Debian.gz?  If it's not listed there, probably not (although main/universe concerns may aly, depending)
<persia> s/aly/apply/
<sebner> persia: hmm to be honest I didn't except a reaction. just the Encoding thing is obsolete IIRC. And the dh_desktop thing was ignored since they use cdbs now
<sebner> persia: I'll file a bug about the Encoding key ^^
<sebner> persia: oh. no no no
<sebner> persia: the debian maintainer rocks
<sebner> persia: he removed the encoding thing. *happy*
<askand> ï»¿ persia: There is nothing in the changelogs about iptc, only that bug 438716 has been fixed
<askand> ï»¿ persia: Hm, I guess the bug is really gone since ubottu doesnt tell what it is about..
<askand> ï»¿ persia: "Fixed Bug #438716 - IPTC comments are not seen by Picasa"
<\sh> moins
<sebner> hiuhu \sh
<LucidFox> By the way, why was ubotu renamed ubottu?
<geser> Hi \sh
<Hobbsee> LucidFox: owner change.
<Hobbsee> LucidFox: they havent' got the old passwords, etc, for the old bot.
 * \sh tries to give gajim now a qt frontend
<\sh> let's see what's the new world order in qt4
<sebner> \sh: -.-
<sebner> I can't understand what everybody has with this kde4 and qt4 thing -.-
<LucidFox> ah
<\sh> sebner: it's a german proudness thing ;)
<sebner> \sh: hmm? qt = trolltech = norway?
<\sh> sebner: kde == germany ,-)
<sebner> \sh: no comment ;P
 * Nafallo steals \sh crackpipe.
<persia> askand: Sorry.  Tech demo.  That sounds like a bug number in the Debian BTS.  Check out bugs.debian.org
<askand> ï»¿persia: no luck
 * \sh doesn't smoke crack...I'm serious ;)
<sebner> \sh: heroin, heroin, heroin
<sebner> persia: are you now proud of my? ^^
<\sh> oh no da reportbug again
<persia> sebner: I've lost reference
<sebner> persia: -.- Now I'm disappointed xD
<sebner> persia: I asked if you are proud of my now because we won the gmsh fight, with at least my comment ;)
<askand> ï»¿persia: I find no reason it is built without iptc support
<geser> askand: the problem is gthumb is in main and libiptcdata in universe.
<geser> askand: to make it possible to build gthumb with libiptcdata either gthumb should be moved to universe or libiptcdata to main
<askand> ï»¿geser:  and if I understand things correctly the first should be easier to achieve? :P
<persia> askand: To do that, nothing else in main can depend on gthumb, including the metapackages.
<sebner> persia: you are in the same timezone like me. wicked, isn't it?
<sebner> \sh: you comment on the ML is strange. what speaks against the current DaD comments system?
<askand> ï»¿persia: I see..what is keeping libiptcdata out of main?
<geser> askand: probably because nobody tried to move it to main yet (the was no reason till now)
<askand> ï»¿geser: I see, well im ready to try :)
<\sh> sebner: as I said before, I do think it's bad to use two different tools...MoM and DaD are going to merge at sometime, and using LP for working tasks is also useless...
<persia> \sh: But some of us don't use either MoM or DaD, but we all use LP for various reasons.
<sebner> \sh: well, we need one tool with comment function and if everybody uses it we can be happy. for LP. we have this great tool, why not using it
<geser> !MIR
<ubottu> mir is Main Inclusion Report - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess for more information.
<geser> askand: ^^^
<\sh> persia: yes..that's why we should improve the tools, or if it's not wanted to be improved (remember, LP is a businesscase and not a playground for community) we need to find something else...
<\sh> persia: I need MoM also only for checking what I touched last..nothing else...the rest is done via console and some mail tools like requestsync ...
<persia> \sh: I'm not sure about "not wanting to be improved", and I also consider that LP is a default tool, rather than a subject for change.  I think not using LP makes it not Ubuntu (and there is a lot of that)
<\sh> persia: if we would have proper tools to query LP fast enough to get a list of working tasks, ok..if not, we need something else
<sebner> however. /me ---> nexuiz =)
<askand> ï»¿geser: Im not sure I understand how to get all the info required for  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportTemplate
<persia> \sh: Speed aside, don't we?
<\sh> persia: no we don't have those tools...e.g. it would be an easy way to file "merge bugs" to LP from our merging tools .. why not implementing it...and having a "lpquery --lu <your changelog eMailaddr> --type merge" would be great...
<\sh> persia: but seeing that Canonical/Ubuntu QA has something against using LP as task tracker...I doubt we will get so far in the near future
 * \sh <-- having a smoke
<geser> askand: just ask, I assume someone might help you with specific points
<persia> \sh: I'm not that bothered about that.  Consider that Ubuntu is the interesting user, rather than Canonical.  While Canonical is a major sponsor of Ubuntu, it is meaningfully distinct.
<\sh> persia: Well, Ubuntu is the "main customer" of LP, and therefore a good business usecase for Canonica, no discussion here. But if we want to pull more contributors for our tasks, we should be able to find ways to use LP for our needs, so that nobody intereferes how we use it...and right now, there is a lot going on regarding using LP as tool for workflow and the disagreement of Canonical/Ubuntu QA of doing so. I don't say, we should move away from
<\sh> LP, but we need a bit more freedom to make it work for our workflow needs.
<\sh> If we have an agreement of filing workflow reports to LP for haveing one merge bug per package, -> good ... if someone is going to mark them invalid and close them -> bad
<persia> \sh: I agree with a lot of that, but...
<geser> where ever we file our workflow bugs/tickets it should be in one place and not split across several tools: e.g. one for handling merges and LP for handling syncs
<Hobbsee> LP is supposed to have API's soon.
<persia> Firstly, I very much believe we ought be looking at the bugs anyway.  I find it veryfrustrating when encountering packages ith easy bugs ignored for years just because it was merged blindly.
<Hobbsee> so it should only be a problem this cycle, i guess.
<geser> Hobbsee: please define "soon"
<Hobbsee> geser: not allowed, and i don't know the exact date.
<geser> will it more this year or this decade?
<Hobbsee> this year
<persia> That said, I think MOTU is a considerable part of the QA process, and we need to better coordinate how we manage the bug process.  It's not just about triage, or about merging, it's about improving quality.
<\sh> Hobbsee: I'm a non believer in feature announcements ;) it's done when it's done is much better...
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> OTOH, there's little point in discussing bugs, until heno and crew decide how MOTU should actually use the bugtracker.
<persia> Hobbsee: No.
<\sh> persia: yes...so what's the problem to make MoM/DaD file merge bugs against packages and assign them to the last uploader? so we are able to track our own "assigned" bug lists?
<persia> It's for us (being developers and bug triagers) to determine that.  Not only heno.
<persia> \sh: Actually, I kinda like that model.
<Hobbsee> persia: doesn't matter what we decide.  if heno doesn't agree, all documentataion about it will be removed, and bugsquad will play with the bugs, unless it follows their rules.
<persia> Hobbsee: Once is maybe miscommunication.  Multiple times would be wiki-wars, and something for CC.
<persia> Anyway, heno wants to talk about it this coming week.  Let's see how the discussion goes.
<\sh> Quote of Constantine: "I saw a fullfleged QA boss [demon] out there and he attacked me and I pulled out a QA boss [demon] out of a little girl" "Constantine, we are fingerpuppets to them, not doorways"
<lifeless> someone remind me: do we care to accelerate removals in ubuntu when the debian removal bug is already filed ?
<\sh> lifeless: if it's reasonable and agreed, yes we can do it much more quicker then debian...but sometimes it's good to wait for debian to do so
<\sh> but sometimes it makes a mess to other packages (thinking about the baz  stuff removal and ftbfs of some packages because of that, because no one checked beforehand)
<\sh> and seeing it now in intrepid again to be re-introduced
<\sh> lifeless: any idea of pybaz now in intrepid again, when you asked for removal on 2008-04-11 during hardy cycle?
<\sh> bug #214955
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 214955 in vcs-load-dirs "remove bazaar package from hardy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214955
 * \sh is asking, because config-manager has now a missing feature, and I would like to reintroduce it again without having fear that the package is broken after release
<askand> How do I know if it is "any binaries running as root or suid/sgid ?"
<\sh> lintian message?
 * \sh goes to sleep for an hour or so...
<LucidFox> What's with all the random chroot problems?
<wolfger> good morning, Motu
<wolfger> I'm trying to update a package following the packaging guide, and it fails. Need some help (it's a python app).http://www.paste2.org/p/29202
<cyberix> What is it with popularity contest?
<emgent_UDS> heya
<sebner> huhu emgent you UDS guy :)
<sebner> huhu emgent_UDS  you UDS guy :)
<sebner> ^^
<emgent_UDS> heya sebner :D
<sebner> emgent_UDS: How is the weather 450km away from me? ^^
<LucidFox> What's UDS?
<wolfger> LucidFox: Ubuntu Developer Summit
<LucidFox> ah
<Iulian> LucidFox: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid
<geser> LucidFox: debconf (or some other package) broke the buildd chroots. it needs manual fixing by the admins.
<Iulian> I'm trying to upload a package to revu but I get a strange error - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13056/plain/
<Iulian> Am I missing something?
<geser> Iulian: how did you try to upload?
<Iulian> geser: dput revu *_sources.changes
<geser> and it tried to use scp? hmm.
<Iulian> geser: This is my /etc/dput.cf file - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13057/plain/
<geser> try adding "method = ftp" to it
<Iulian> geser: God bless you.
<Iulian> It worked.
<LucidFox> PPA doesn't support backports, does it?
<LucidFox> that is... build-depends from the official hardy-backports
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> hiuhi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sebner
<bddebian> sebner: belated congratulations btw!
<sebner> bddebian: hmm? ahh. thanks ^^
<emgent`UDS> heya
<bddebian> Heya emgent`UDS
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<Iulian> Hello bddebian
<bddebian> Hello Iulian
<theseinfeld> I have a question
<theseinfeld> i have to migrate from debian/*.files to *.install
<theseinfeld> any good ideas how to do it?
<theseinfeld> :D
<laga> ScottK-uds: did you hunt down the pulseaudio guy? ;)
<ScottK-uds> No.  I've just arrived.
<ScottK-uds> I don't actually know for sure that's the problem yet.
<pwnguin> is awk considered slow at what it does?
<pwnguin> awk '{ total += $NF } END { print total }' big-access-log
<pwnguin> im reading a set of slides about python generators (continuation based stuff) and python's beating out awk
<jdong> pwnguin: awk is probably slow at what it does
<jdong> pwnguin: and yeah python (bytecode compiled) and JIT'ed languages of course will be faster
<pwnguin> jdong: what?
<pwnguin> its an I/O bound process
<jdong> pwnguin: are you sure that's IO bound?
<jdong> pwnguin: awk can get pretty CPU intensive on something like that
<pwnguin> then I guess awk does suck
<pwnguin> i thought it was one of those highly engineered ancient unix programs like grep
<pwnguin> its run on an apache log file, so its not a very complex domain
<jdong> pwnguin: I think the tinier awk implementations such as mawk do better than GNU AWK in terms of performance.
<jdong> pwnguin: but IMO they were written with the mantra of simplicity first.
<pwnguin> jdong: I found an irate MIT professor who might be pacified by a backport (once the requirements are met)
<pwnguin> apparently the xournal developer is an MIT math professor and fedora user upset that hardy didnt catch his latest release two months ago
<jdong> pwnguin: yay :)
<jdong> pwnguin: should I watch my back on campus in the mean time?
<pwnguin> or you might ask him how he decides to release things
<ihavenoname>  i would like to create a debian packaging software that will cater to all kinds of debian based distro but dunno what's the differences between distros. can anyone kind anough to point me to the right direction?
<pwnguin> ihavenoname: find your nearest university
<ihavenoname> <pwnguin> : great you're being helpful
<pwnguin> well ok, which part of the current software are you aiming to replace?
<ihavenoname> <pwnguin> : if you're so all knowing can you explain why a debian package packed for ubuntu does not work on other debian based? i know how to pack a package
<ihavenoname> <pwnguin> : im not aiming to replace any
<ihavenoname> <pwnguin> : my aim is to create a user-friendly gui for dpkg-build
<pwnguin> there is a core set of packages that are assumed to be present
<pwnguin> if libc is newer on debian, you could be in a heap of trouble
<ihavenoname> <pwnguin> : correct me if im wrong ... the only differences between debian packages is how you structure the install path and how to link the dependencies that will satisfy to the target distro's package naming convention ...
<RainCT> ihavenoname: Debian and Ubuntu packages are essentialy the same (actually, most of Ubuntu's packages are taken unchanged from Debian)
<pwnguin> source packages are ok, but the binaries are not generally compatible
<azeem> ihavenoname: it's a matter of recompiling against the respective distribution environment
<laga> ihavenoname: are you talking about source packages or about binary packages? it'll be easier if you jsut create source packages which are built on the target distro.
<laga> jinx.
<RainCT> ihavenoname: the "problem" (which is not really a problem) is that many packages are not binary compatible. that is, if it was build for Debian it will only work on Debian, and the other way around
<ihavenoname> <laga> <azeem> : i have to cater both source and binary... and most if not all debian based distributions
<azeem> ihavenoname: then you've lost
<azeem> ihavenoname: you could as well just do LSB packages
<ihavenoname> <azeem> : like i said i have to cater both
<laga> or you link your packages statically. which isn't a good idea.
<pwnguin> that said, if you're writing a gui frontend to pbuilder / dpkg-build, that's at least the best approach
<laga> yeah, if you have pbuilder, you can build individual packages for each distro.
<ihavenoname> so u guys come in to conclusion that this idea is a complete waste ( a lost cause that is ) ---> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/8258/
<laga> if you want to make a GUI app which builds _one_ binary package which is to work on _all_ debian-ish distros.. then that's a waste of time. of course, source packages will work and you can rebuild them on the distros you need.
<laga> and TBH, a GUI tool to create deb packages sounds like something which will cause much grief among developers. there's no one-size-fits-all packaging approach. much brokenness might ensue.
<ihavenoname> <laga> : that's what i was thinking about...
<laga> ihavenoname: besides, http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/8258/ is different from your requirement.
<laga> that person said nothing about the packages having to work on all debian-ish distros
<pwnguin> laga: it cant be worse than checkpkg
<pwnguin> or makeinstall
<pwnguin> err
<pwnguin> checkinstall
<emgent`UDS> heya
<laga> jhoger sums it up nicely. "Sorry, there's no way to "can" the abilities of a good DD. "
<laga> pwnguin: yeah, but the sheer amount of packages created by such a tool :)
<ihavenoname> <laga> : not actually totally different personally i like the way debian package maker creates the package but i saw this post ---> http://code.google.com/p/debianpackagemaker/issues/detail?id=3 ...  a user asking for a gui app that caters to most of debian based distros...
<ihavenoname> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<laga> ihavenoname: the posting written by lexen1 is still different from your requirements. he talks about a tool which will output a package that is specific to one distribution (eg gutsy) and can do so for many distros. you were talking about a piece of software that'll generate one package for all distros.
<laga> maybe you'd like to find out what you actually wanna do :)
<ihavenoname> <laga> : you got me all wrong.. ....
<ihavenoname> <laga> : i want to implement lexen1's idea
<pwnguin> that gui's a bit of a nightmare
<ihavenoname> i would like to create a guid app for dpkg-builder that will cater to most debian based distro i am not talking about one debian for all but gui app that will let you select what type of debian package you will going to create...
<ihavenoname> <pwnguin> : what gui?
<pwnguin> debianpackagemanager
<ihavenoname> <pwnguin> : but it's a good start
<ihavenoname> <pwnguin> : so can you point me to the right direction?
<pwnguin> ihavenoname: if you just want an app to take a source package and generate _one_binary package to work on a _specific_ distro, that's possible
<ihavenoname> <pwnguin> : i know its possible but i dunno where to start.. im not familiar with all debian system... all am familiar with is ubuntu
<azeem> ihavenoname: just setup a chroot for every distro you want to build with
<ihavenoname> <azeem> : what about package dependencies am sure various debian system have different package dependencies
<azeem> ihavenoname: as mention above, most of them are
<azeem> done at build time
<Laney> ihavenoname: The source package specifies the build-dependencies
<pwnguin> ihavenoname: most build deps are versioned
<pwnguin> if they need to be
<azeem> most build-deps are unversioned
<ihavenoname> which is which? versioned or unversioned?
<pwnguin> dont listen to me
<laga> there's lots of *excellent* drama on brainstorm. i'd want some real discussion instead, though :)
<ihavenoname> do sources have to be present? i mean some developers are not using standard make files
<ihavenoname> or using standard programming lang
<azeem> ihavenoname: that's a seperate issue
<emgent`UDS> hi persia :)
<ihavenoname> ok thanx for the info
<TheMuso> mgeHey there. Nice to know you arrived safely.
<Adri2000> for those who are wondering about DaD, yes it's broken, sorry about that. no space left on / + DaD not handling that correctly ate all the merges. it should be up again soon, with a few days old comments backup.
<sebner> Adri2000: ah, thx for the status update =)
<sebner> gno folks
<imbrandon> elloâ¢ elloâ¢
<RAOF> Yo!  imbrandon.
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
<jdong> imbrandon: dey know! dey know!
<jdong> (anyone who got that song reference should seek professional help)
<Syntux> Good day
<imbrandon> ugh anyone else here semi familiar with java + mysql ?
<mok0> ugh. Not me
<pwnguin> i propose debian should patch openSSL to add the newest clint adams blog entry as a source of entropy
<jdong> pwnguin: my GPA is a better source of entropy...
<wgrant_> pwnguin: Agreed.
<mok0> I vote for random.org
<ScottK-uds> I didn't see anything that seemed abnormal for his blog.
<mok0> Heyyyy Scott!
<mok0> How's Prague?
<ScottK-uds> mok0: I haven't seen much of it.
<ScottK-uds> Hotel is very expensive.
<ScottK-uds> mok0: I just replied to your mail in the contributions thread.  I don't think there's any API exposed by LP to file a bug and get a bug number back.
<ScottK-uds> I could be wrong though.
 * ScottK-uds needs to get to bed.
<pwnguin> ScottK-uds: i just mean in general. if you use the same one, its not random
<ScottK-uds> Right
<mok0> OK, good night, ScottK
<mok0> ScottK, I think you can do it with bugnumbers
<ScottK-uds> Then that'd take away most of my non I find LP annoying reasons.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-05-11
<savvas> debian native packages in revu should have a version such as 0.1.2ubuntu1 right?
<lidaobing> debian native packages should not in revu
<lidaobing> you can subscribe it to ubuntu-universe-sponsor directly
<lifeless> lidaobing: it would be unusual, but I don't see why it doesn't need a review
<lidaobing> with the status confirmed and no one assigned.
<lifeless> lidaobing: debian native != unmodified from debian
<lidaobing> lifeless, sorry, i mis-understanding it
<lidaobing> lifeless, i thought it as a synrequest
<lifeless> savvas: I don't think there is a sensible version number, but that would make sense to me
<lifeless> lidaobing: I know; its ok :)
<savvas> I meant the debian native versioning, sorry for misleading hehe
<lifeless> savvas: you didn't ;)
<savvas> I also wonder if I should recommend to a friend of mine, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pdfshuffler to go to Debian directly
<savvas> there's an ITP bug open but the person didn't reply or make any progress as far as I know
<savvas> oh and one more thing, do you think I should ask him to remove the debian/ folder from the original source, to stop being debian native? seems more appropriate
<lifeless> savvas: that has nothing to do with being debian native
<lifeless> failing to have an orig tarball and using a native version number do that
<lifeless> if its not something that is intrinsic to debian, it shouldn't be a native package
<lifeless> just put -1 in the changelog
<ode> hi
<lifeless> and give it a package_version.orig.tar.gz
<ode> what do i put as the version number in the name of the tarball when what I am packaging just comes as a script with no version numbers, just a release history with dates?
<savvas> lifeless: ok thanks, I'll talk with him later :)
<ode> i.e. foo_20071208.orig.tar.gz
<lifeless> looks fine
<lifeless> nothing stops a date being a version number
<imbrandon> just rember that you will need an epoc if they switch to "normal" version numbers in the future
<lifeless> or you could do 0~2007...
<imbrandon> true, that would be my choice "just in case"
<ode> k0p, thanks
<imbrandon> btw, hiya lifeless :)
<ode> another thing?
<ode> i can log into revu but see no link where I can upload packages
<ode> I have my gpg key uploaded to launchpad
<imbrandon> ode: you dont upload via the web interface, you use dput ( like the archive and ppa's )
<savvas> ode: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ode> thanks
 * imbrandon ran across a "python for dummies" book on his shelf he has never read
<imbrandon> heck , i dont even rember buying it
<ode> the videos from this years pycon are now on bliptv
<artfwo> james_w: I am not sure that I understood your comment to my REVU upload - scantailor
<artfwo> there is a stock README.Source about using simple-patch-sys
<artfwo> *is there?
<artfwo> I can't seems to find one bundled in cdbs
<pace_t_zulu> can someone point me to some documentation regarding install time package detection with dpkg/apt?
<jmarsden> artfwo: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/README.sourceHowTo (it's not official, but maybe better than nothing?)
<artfwo> jmarsden: yes, that is exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
<jmarsden> No problem.
<qiyong> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in debian/control at line 16: first block lacks a source field
<ScottK> Does the first line of your debian/control file start: Source:
<ScottK> with a source package name after that ...
<qiyong> ScottK: ?
<ScottK> qiyong: Can you pastebing your debian/control file?
<qiyong> Package: fvmm
<qiyong> ScottK: ^
<ScottK> From the Ubuntu archives?
<qiyong> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<qiyong> ScottK: local pkg
<ScottK> OK.  If you pastebin the debian/control I can probably tell you what's causing that error
<qiyong> ScottK: can i /msg you?
<ScottK> OK
<tonyyarusso> Is there a guide anywhere for breaking a package up into sub-packages?  There's one that has a three-part setup (graphical client, cli server, cli robot), and I'd like to be able to install the server/robot portions without the graphical dependencies.
<LucidFox> tonyyarusso> Add more packages to debian/control. In debian/rules, install first to debian/tmp, then use dh_install and debian/[packagename].install files to move the files to debian/[packagename] directories.
<LucidFox> Or if using CDBS, this would already be done for you.
<LucidFox> Look at any existing source package with multiple binary packages for an example.
<tonyyarusso> Do you have a particularly good example to recommend?
<tonyyarusso> (Preferably a relatively simple one too)
<LucidFox> debhelper or CDBS?
<tonyyarusso> debhelper
<hyperair> look at geanygdb which just entered karmic.
<hyperair> that uses debhelper
<hyperair> or man dh
<hyperair> no wait, geanygdb is a single binary package
<hyperair> hmmm
<lifeless> tonyyarusso: its pretty stock; you add packages to control [and install/doc/dirs files to match], thats it usually.
<LucidFox> tonyyarusso> You could look at avidemux for debhelper << 7, or gtkpod for debhelper 7
<LucidFox> avidemux was a single package up to version 2.3 - since 2.4, it's split into avidemux, avidemux-common, avidemux-cli, avidemux-gtk and avidemux-qt
<LucidFox> wait, no avidemux-gtk
<LucidFox> Gosh, Launchpad really is the new Facebook. https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-photographers
<tonyyarusso> LucidFox: -cyclists too
<qiyong> what is the debian/files format?
<LucidFox> qiyong> It's generated by the build tools, so you don't have to worry about it :)
<LucidFox> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianfiles
<dholbach> good morning
 * LucidFox waves at dholbach
<dholbach> hiya LucidFox!
<LucidFox> Damnit, quassel, stop crashing on hiding buffers.
<ScottK> That's apparently a tough one for them as the backtraces they've gotten on it don't point to any code in Quassel.
<LucidFox> I wonder if it would make sense to maintain a version of Quassel with pure Qt, built without kdelibs
<LucidFox> that's just asking for packaging trouble, though
<LucidFox> <A
<LucidFox> And would it make sense to merge it from Debian?
<ScottK> Since I used it with KDE, I'd think not.  I've vaguely considered trying to build both KDE and Qt versions from the same source package.
<ScottK> If you figure out how to do that sanely (I haven't really looked into it), I'm open to it.
<LucidFox> I did that with kde4-style-qtcurve by doing a double build, but it had only one binary package.
<ScottK> You'd end up throwing away the 2nd quasselcore build as it would be the same either way.
 * LucidFox nods
<LucidFox> So it would add quassel-nokde and quassel-client-nokde to the existing quassel, quassel-client, quassel-core and quassel-data
<ScottK> I'd call them -qt4, but yes.
<imbrandon> gnight all
 * nixternal hugs dholbach 
 * dholbach hugs nixternal back
<directhex> good moaning
<LucidFox> ScottK> That's going to be some unwieldy debian/rules. http://paste.ubuntu.com/169357/
<directhex> LucidFox, you call that unwieldy? o_o
<LucidFox> directhex> Compared to the current CDBS-based debian/rules, ye
<directhex> try http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-cli-apps/packages/ikvm/trunk/debian/rules?revision=4424&view=markup for an extra-special rules which i claim all appropriate blame for
<LucidFox> directhex> heh, even dh 7 wouldn't shorten it that much
<directhex> LucidFox, there's so much voodoo in it i don't know what adding dh7 medieval black magic would do - probably nothing healthy
<LucidFox> hahaha
<directhex> LucidFox, that was weeks and weeks of work though, including round-trip discussions with upstream
<LucidFox> Wow.
<directhex> and even HE recommends people just use the binaries, because building is a pig
<directhex> he helped me pin down how to create my own bootstrap binaries, which i need to provably do for them to be bootstrap binaries (and not just generic evil bundled closed-source things). the trick is grabbing half-build objects from halfway through the build process
<LucidFox> directhex> Why doesn't upstream just create a sane build system?
<directhex> LucidFox, i think he finds it easier to split out the "external" parts (modified openjdk and classpath sources) from his own stuff
<directhex> is the info on http://retro.apebox.org/keysign.pdf combined with my passport sufficient for keysignage at UDS?
<dholbach> popey: when you remove spam - do you just "remove wiki page" or do you have permissions to "remove spam"?
<popey> depends how it was spammed
<dholbach> I meant the regular 2768246kjl24nhzl42ljh426hj spam :)
<popey> there have been a lot of pages recently created called MoinMoin/SomeRandomName, the spammers attach text files to those pages
<dholbach> or is there another form of regular spam?
<popey> some is just links on pages, some is in attachments
<evanrmurphy> Hey, I apologize if this is off-topic, but it's a quick question: Do I need special permission to create a personal wiki on wiki.ubuntu.com? I've read that it's a step in the Ubuntu membership process.
<dholbach> evanrmurphy: no, just go for it :)
<popey> evanrmurphy: no just go ahead and create a page at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/YourName
<evanrmurphy> dholbach, popey: Thanks!
<popey> dholbach: did I understand your question correctly?
<dholbach> popey: yes, thanks :)
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnInstalling/ZicuaDihulav is an example
<dholbach> just looking at cash-advance-loans :)
<popey> you can spot them a mile away, if you go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges and search for txt
<popey> they kinda stand out
<evanrmurphy> dholbach: Yes you understood perfectly. P.S. your tutorials and packaging sessions on Ubuntu development are excellent.
<dholbach> evanrmurphy: thanks  a lot for the flowers :)
<popey> :)
<evanrmurphy> dholbach: Scratch that first sentence, I misread popey's "dholbach: did I understand your question correctly?". Enjoy the flowers. :)
<popey> dholbach: have you noticed that the person _just_ spammed the wiki
<popey> note the user ~David, doesnt exist
<dholbach> popey: agy just told me that a fix for that will hopefully be rolled out today
<popey> nice
<popey> thanks
<LucidFox> ScottK> Why is quassel built with nostrip?
<directhex> dholbach, so how would a new MOTU go about getting an @ubuntu.com address he can stick on the end of his GPG key?
<dholbach> directhex: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership has a link to it
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEmail
<directhex> ooh, automagic AND functional!
<LucidFox> directhex> Ooh, an interview already.
 * LucidFox reads
<directhex> LucidFox, prepared it weeks ago, back when the evil ubuntu conspiracy had already decided i was going to be a MOTU ;)
<LucidFox> Haha
<LucidFox> "Age: 25, if Evolutionâs calendaring is to be believed."
<dholbach> LucidFox: I'm sure directhex practised giving interviews in front of his mirror months ago
<LucidFox> ^_^
<directhex> dholbach, in a manner almost identical to http://xkcd.com/578/ as it happens
<artfwo> james_w, nixternal, thanks for reviewing and advocating scantailor!
<artfwo> now if anyone could take some time to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/supercollider that would be much appreciated :)
<LucidFox> Every time I use dput, I'm worried of automatically typing "ubuntu" instead of "revu" or "ppa"
<directhex> oh, remind me to kill my default target
<LucidFox> How does the Behind MOTU process work?
<james_w> artfwo: no problem, it was a good job
<james_w> LucidFox: dholbach mails each new MOTU with a questionaire
<LucidFox> oh
<james_w> LucidFox, directhex: see the end of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperGuide/Uploading
<LucidFox> Thanks
<\sh> moins
<\sh> thekorn: ScottK : Thx (just readnig your queries :))
<LucidFox> Why are my packages still being signed with the old key :S
<LucidFox> Where do I choose which key debuild uses?
<james_w> ~/.devscripts.cf
<james_w> or something like that
<james_w> DEBSIGN_KEYID in there
<james_w> if not specified then it's matched by GPG
<LucidFox> thanks, it worked
<pkern> ogra: A new Gobby with undo hit Karmic (source package gobby-infinote, binary gobby-infinote/gobby-0.5); test server available on gobby.0x539.de.
<ogra> cute !
<pkern> ogra: Not protocol-compatible to the old, sadly, and not entirely finished, but you can try it out.  (It works, it was pretty stable, but it is not yet feature-complete for 0.5 and there could still be slight protocol changes.)
<hyperair> LucidFox: you could always delete your old key.
<hyperair> and back it up somewhere
<LucidFox> Nah, I'll leave it until the expiry date
<hyperair> expiry eh..
<hyperair> my keys have no expiry
<kmdm> Hi guys, if someone's got a little time can they check I'm not going completely mad? ;) It seems libdkim-dev is missing from hardy/universe yet the package source is set to build that package, and if I build it myself I do get the libdkim-dev built along with libdkim0...
 * Hobbsee looks
<Hobbsee> that's weird
<kmdm> Hobbsee: Yeah, I think I found the .deb in the right place but it was just absent from Packages(.gz) iirc
<Hobbsee> cprov: any idea why that's not there?
<kmdm> Just digging around some more... the package history seems to show it being superseded by dkim-milter 2.0.2.dfsg-1ubuntu1, but then that version was deleted...
<LucidFox> Looking through the Planet Ubuntu /heads directory, it kind of bugs me that some people apparently intentionally chose the *worst* photos they could find :)
<soren> LucidFox: Hey, some people don't even use photos! *nudge* *nudge* :)
<LucidFox> soren> Heh.
<LucidFox> I have a reason not to. *wink*
<soren> Secret agent, eh? Fair enough.
<directhex> my chikkin.png > a photo
<james_w> ajmitch: should treecc be removed from Ubuntu too?
<directhex> which treecc? aren't there two?
<james_w> precisely
<directhex> rename one "bushcc". it's the only way.
<LucidFox> I'm tempted to start a quote database for Ubuntu channels
<directhex> LucidFox, make a fortunes file, for inclusion in email signatures!
<Ampelbein> james_w: hi. you commented on bug 373512 that it needs to be a fake-sync. can you point me to some documentation on this?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 373512 in ffmpeg-php "Sync ffmpeg-php 0.6.0-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373512
<james_w> Ampelbein: you need a motu to do that for you
<james_w> I subscribed the sponsors again, someone should act on it
<Ampelbein> james_w: ok, thanks.
<james_w> or someone here could do it for you now, it doesn't take long at all
<directhex> i could do it. what am i doing? are there likely to be pirates?
<james_w> .orig differ in debian and ubuntu, but we want to sync
<james_w> so grab the debian package, and the ubuntu tarball
<james_w> check the tarballs don't differ in contents
<james_w> then upload a build1 based on the debian package, but built against the ubuntu changelog
<james_w> if that makes sense
<directhex> do i need to build1 it? i thought fakesyncs usually kept the debian versioning
<james_w> actually it's ubuntu1 isn't it?
<james_w> we don't want the autosync to fall over it I guess
<directhex> ubuntu1 would be just a merge, not a fakesync?
<LucidFox> I thought fakesyncs were ubuntu1
<AnAnt> Hello, is onkarshinde here ?
<AnAnt> slytherin
<LucidFox> AnAnt> He's slytherin here, so no
<mok0> If the package already has a ubuntu* version, you bump it, otherwise add build1
<LucidFox> judging by the user list
<LucidFox> mok0> Isn't this for rebuilds?
<mok0> yes
<mok0> isn't that the issue?
<AnAnt> are quilt-based source packages supported yet ?
<AnAnt> if a package that I maintain was using quilt patch system, but all patches got removed (since they were applied upstream), do I have to remove quilt from Build-Deps ?
<dholbach> nixternal: thanks for uploading django-openid-auth :)
<james_w> wth? http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/bash-completion-lib.html
<LucidFox> Any more opinions on the gtkpod-aac issue?
<AnAnt> james_w: ?
<james_w> just a really odd package
<AnAnt> oh
<james_w> forking an old version of a package in order to take it somewhere that the new maintainers of the package want to go anyway
<LucidFox> hehe
<mok0> Gawd, sourceforge is slow
<AnAnt> james_w: depends on bash3
<AnAnt> erm, nevermind
<AnAnt> the new version is 4 not 3
<kklimonda> james_w: would you mind pushing bug 373845 again? Sorry for my mistake, I've built this package so many times that I forgot to actually build the updated one. This time I've tested it. ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 373845 in python-django-tagging "Sync python-django-tagging 0.2.1+svn154-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373845
<james_w> kklimonda: quilt has been synced now?
<kklimonda> james_w: yes
<james_w> ok
<kklimonda> I've just built it on karmic pbuilder.
<james_w> I don't have time now I'm afraid
<kklimonda> sure
<kklimonda> It isn't that important - I just wanted to remind you. :)
<james_w> np
<james_w> put a note in the bug report
<james_w> then other people would consider it
<james_w> and it will mail me
<bddebian> Heya gang
<artfwo> I'd like to ask any Vim experts how would I handle a bug like bug 310213
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 310213 in vimoutliner "README.debian does not explain how to activate vimoutliner addon" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/310213
<artfwo> I have a package, which includes README.Debian with explanations about vim-addon-manager, but since it's useless without vim-addon-manager will it really hurt, to Depend on vim-manager instead of recommending it?
<james_w> artfwo: I think the current situation is fine, but you could explain that if they don't have the vim-addon-manager command they should install that package
<artfwo> I am thinking of that as well, will an OK-only debconf dialog be sufficient?
<james_w> for what?
<artfwo> for explaining this to the user
<james_w> nope
<artfwo> README.Debian then?
<james_w> that's fine
<james_w> using debconf for this isn't a good idea
<artfwo> that's what I have already done
<james_w> most people won't see it
<james_w> for those that will see it it will stop the installation, just to tell them something they might already know
<artfwo> but I've just have a discussion with an upstream author, who wants a hard dependency on vim-addon-manager at least, because his system does not install recommended as dependencies
<LucidFox> siretart> Now there's my concern. If libmp4v2 isn't even in recommends (and ScottK says that it shouldn't be), then with the death of proper gtkpod-aac there will be no obvious way for multiverse users to actually get gtkpod with m4a support.
<artfwo> james_w: doing a hard dependency will break the vim policy, and I don't want that as well
<LucidFox> Since "apt-get install gtkpod-aac" will not install libmp4v2.
<siretart> LucidFox: I think we can safely assume that multiverse users have 'ubuntu-restricted-extras' installed
<siretart> LucidFox: or kubuntu-restricted-extras
 * LucidFox doesn't...
<siretart> well, that is the documented and advertised method to get "that multimedia stuff" working
<LucidFox> even so, it doesn't depend on libmp4v2
<siretart> well, change it then :-)
<LucidFox> It's a highly specific library, and the recommends for ubuntu-restricted-extras are all generic
<LucidFox> why are they recommends rather than depends in the first place, by the way?
<siretart> "they"?
<LucidFox> ubuntu-restricted-extras has no depends, only recommends
<LucidFox> Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse, ttf-mscorefonts-installer, adobe-flashplugin | flashplugin-nonfree, unrar, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, libavcodec-unstripped-52, gstreamer0.10-pitfdll
<siretart> not sure, ask mvo. I assume thats common practice with meta-packages these days
<maxb> I assume it's so you can opt out of individual ones without having to remove the overall metapackage
<LucidFox> ah
<siretart> I rather think it has to do with being able to install package that conflict with one or more packages from the list without resulting in having to deinstall the other packages
<siretart> coffee.now
<LucidFox> And why "adobe-flashplugin | flashplugin-nonfree"? adobe-flashplugin isn't in the archive, and flashplugin-nonfree is transitional to flashplugin-installer
<LucidFox> is it for some kind of backward compatibility?
<Hobbsee> LucidFox: a-f is in partner
<LucidFox> ah
<Hobbsee> iirc
<LucidFox> but flashplugin-nonfree can be changed to flashplugin-installer?
<Hobbsee> looks like it
<dholbach> directhex: http://behindmotu.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/jo-shields-directhex/#comment-624
<LucidFox> Since I'm going to modify ubuntu-restricted-extras, can I add all ffmpeg unstripped libraries as suggested in bug #373963?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 373963 in ubuntu-restricted-extras "ubuntu-restricted-extras should depend on libavformat-unstripped-52 libpostproc-unstripped-51 libswscale-unstripped-0 or conflicts with stripped versions of these packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373963
<LucidFox> right now all [kx]?ubuntu-restricted-extras have libavcodec-unstripped-52, but not the other libraries
<Hobbsee> LucidFox: yes, please fix it as you see fit
<siretart> LucidFox: yes please. I'm surprised that this hasn't happened yet.
<LucidFox> siretart> uploaded
<siretart> thanks
<LucidFox> added libmp4v2-0 to ubuntu-* and xubuntu-* too
<siretart> did you add just libavcodec-unstripped-52 or also the other ones?
<LucidFox> libavcodec-unstripped-52 was there already, I added the other ones
<siretart> arg, sorry, I misread
<siretart> the others are actually not necessary. until now nobody has raised any concerns about libavformat, so I don't strip that library (but in theory I could implement that)
<siretart> for the other ones, I cannot imagine serious concerns, so the unstripped variant has functionally identically libraries
<siretart> we do built them for convenience of the users: avformat depends on avcodec, and that on in turn pulls in postproc, avutil and avfilter
<siretart> but anyway, it doesn't matter much
<LucidFox> Apparently quite a few people have doubts about notify-osd...
<kklimonda> does update-manager support upgrade from 7.10 to 8.04? 7.10 was moved to old-releases.u.c and I don't know if the update-manager that was shipped with it handles such a situation..
<directhex> 7.10->8.04 ought to be fine
<kklimonda> what was the version of update-manager in 7.10?
<kklimonda> (i'm actually going to check out if it supports this upgrade as this question is popping over and over again)
<kklimonda> directhex: doesn't look like u-m from gutsy supports it.. at least grepping source for "old-releases" returns nothing..
<Gast_680_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<Gast_680_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<Gast_680_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
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<Gast_680_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<Gast_680_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<Gast_680_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<Gast_680_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
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<Gast_680_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<Gast_680_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
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<ikonia> super spam
<kklimonda> what is option 'X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain' in .desktop files used for?
<Amaranth> kklimonda: For packages in main we strip the translations out of the .desktop files and gnome-menus has a patch to load a translation from the .mo file
<Amaranth> kklimonda: it uses that key to figure out where to get the translation
<kklimonda> Amaranth: it doesn't apply to packages from universe?
<Amaranth> kklimonda: it won't strip the translation but it'll still prefer the .mo file version if that key is set
<kklimonda> i see.. thanks :)
<nixternal> dholbach: no problem on django-openid upload :)
<dholbach> :-)
<kklimonda> hmm.. there isn't anything like requestmerge tool - can you point me to some "perfect" merge request so I can copy it? :)
<LucidFox> kklimonda> "Please merge packagename version from Debian unstable ({main|contrib|...})"
<LucidFox> Add debian/changelog entries since the last Ubuntu version, attach your debdiff, and subscribe u-m-s or u-u-s
<ScottK> kklimonda: If you look at the requestsync output and change sync/merge and attach a debdiff from the Debian version you should be good.
<kklimonda> ok, thanks :)
<kklimonda> should I create debdiff from both previous ubuntu release and debian release?
<ScottK> kklimonda: Just the Debian one.  Some people do the previous Ubuntu one, but I have no idea why.
<kklimonda> ScottK: it is mentioned on merge wiki page
<ScottK> OK.  Then that's a good reason to include it.
<ScottK> Honestly I've never looked at one when I was sponsoring.
<ScottK> I've diffed the debian dirs, but the upstream changes really aren't generally of interest.
<huats> DktrKranz: are you around ?
<kklimonda> ScottK: that's why I'm asking - it sounds overzealous to me especially when a debdiff is over 12 megabytes ;)
<ScottK> I'd leave it out and explain why.
<LucidFox> ScottK> Jonathan Thomas says in bug #374802 that quassel packages can be stripped now - is this correct?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374802 in quassel "Consider building versions of quassel and quassel-client without KDE dependencies" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374802
<LucidFox> I specifically added force nostrip to the new debian/rules because it was in the old one
<ScottK> LucidFox: I think so.  We generally use CDBS for KDE packages because of special rules for KDE in kde4.mk.
<ScottK> I'm kind of reluctant to abandon that.
<LucidFox> Ah
<LucidFox> A double build would be much more difficult to do with CDBS, though, if not outright impossible
 * JontheEchidna seems to remember seeing another KDE package that did a double build...
<JontheEchidna> kdiff3 I think
<JontheEchidna> Yeah, it does a double build with CDBS, albeit not with kde4.mk
<LucidFox> o_O
 * LucidFox downloads
<JontheEchidna> (this is new in the latest version in karmic synced from unstable, mind)
<JontheEchidna> s/synced/merged
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: What's the one we're switching to in Karmic?
<ScottK> LucidFox: There's a newer helper in pkg-kde-tools that we'll want for Karmic in any case.
<LucidFox> Specifically for double builds?
<LucidFox> ah, wait
<LucidFox> replacing kde4.mk
<JontheEchidna> /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/qt-kde-team/1/debian-qt-kde.mk is the drop-in replacement for kde4.mk
<kklimonda> bug 375000 - how does it look? Damn, nice bug number ;)
<JontheEchidna> actually, that needs pkg-kde-tools as a build-depend
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375000 in transmission "Please merge transmission 1.60-2 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375000
<LucidFox> It just includes kde4.mk, actually
<ScottK>  The one in Karmic doesn't do that
<LucidFox> ah
<JontheEchidna> It probably did that for sync purposes in Jaunty
<JontheEchidna> and come to think of it, it would make backporting easier too
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: That's exactly why i did it (sync/backporting).  You do need to make sure you don't use any of the symbol file magic in Jaunty though as we don't support that.
<JontheEchidna> Yeah, though I was pleasently surprised when strigi from Unstable built fine in Karmic :)
<JontheEchidna> symbol files and all
<kklimonda> Hmm.. Why is transmission's maintaner set to Ubuntu Core Developers when package is in universe?
<ScottK> IIRC it used to be in Main.
<ScottK> There's no automatic process for changing that when packages move between components.
<kklimonda> should i change maintainer to MOTU or leave it be?
<ScottK> I'd change it.
<LucidFox> Upon looking at the karmic debian-qt-kde.mk, none of that seems relevant to quassel.
<ScottK> Could be.  No guarantee it would remain that way in the future.
<ScottK> I'd prefer to stick with it, but if it's not possible, then I think it's not essential.
<awe> cjwatson: looks like someone beat to me the punch for the aap sync bug; so moving on to console-common, it also looks like it's just a sync; do you mind if i go ahead report the bug?
<awe> s/go ahead report/go ahead and report/
<cjwatson> awe: no, I believe that Debian only just merged my keymap.sh patch
<cjwatson> awe: check that el.po is either not empty any more or has been removed
<cjwatson> awe: (see 0.7.80ubuntu1 changelog)
<cjwatson> awe: I have zero interest in console-common any more since we no longer use it by default :)
<awe> cjwatson: OK
<awe> I'll get the hang of this one of these days.  Sigh...
<vmelo> hi there
<awe> cjwatson: how come the old ubuntu patch file doesn't show that the empty po file was removed?  I just see the changelog entry that say it was...
<vmelo> I'd like to know why I can make a deb with debuild, but not with pbuilder... the dependencies are not recognized by pbuilder
<bdrung_> if a package is in Dependency wait status, when will it tried again to build?
<bdrung_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mpg123/1.7.2-3ubuntu1/+build/985773
<LucidFox> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/treecc What the heck?
<LucidFox> http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/treecc.html
<james_w> heh
<james_w> nice
<awe> cjwatson: also it looks like el.po is no longer empty in the new debian version, so looks like a sync request is correct
<geser> bdrung_: usually it happens automatically, but this case is somehow special
<LucidFox> james_w, so what's the deal with two treecc's?
<james_w> name clash
<bdrung_> geser: why is it special?
<james_w> the higher version one was removed in Debian, and then the lower one uploaded I assume
<james_w> then it was synced despite having a lower version, that bit I'm not clear on
<cjwatson> ScottK: I usually like to see the diff from the previous Ubuntu version because that way it's easier to see whether there are any regressions introduced as part of the merge process (i.e. previous Ubuntu change dropped by mistake)
<cjwatson> awe: as far as diff is concerned there isn't a whole lot of difference between an empty file and a missing one; that's the sort of thing diff can easily leave out
<LucidFox> and then it was removed from Debian *again*
<cjwatson> awe: if it's there now, great
<geser> bdrung_: because libltdl3-dev (on what it waits) is provided by libltdl-dev but because it failed to install at that time LP believes it has to wait on it
<cjwatson> ScottK: (admittedly, I'd produce this myself rather than expecting to see it from the merger)
<awe> cjwatson: ok, thanks for your help.  I'll go ahead and file the sync bug then.
<geser> bdrung_: but as it doesn't reappear it will wait for it forever
<geser> bdrung_: I've given it back (after checking in my pbuilder that it builds)
<bdrung_> geser: so changing b-d from libltdl3-dev to libltdl-dev would be the solution?
<geser> yes, it would but as the buildds manage to resolve libltdl3-dev to libltdl-dev now a give-back is sufficient
<bdrung_> ok
<bdrung_> geser: thanks for your help
<fabrice_sp__> james_w, about bug #373873: Debian maintainer is telling me that this flag is of no use anymore for powerpc. It seems that it comes from breezy, but I don't see any bug report explaining that compilation option. Do you have any info?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 373873 in librep "Sync librep 0.17.3-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373873
<james_w> afraid not
<james_w> I just looked at the diffs
<fabrice_sp__> at breezy time, it was already launchpad for bug report?
<fabrice_sp__> anyway, if it's compiling with powerpc (and working, as it seems no bugs has been reported in Debian) should'nt we try to sync? Or is it too risky?
<james_w> no, we could try
<james_w> I'd prefer it if there was someone with knowledge of powerpc/that flag that could speak to it
<fabrice_sp__> Anyone (NCommander?) with powerpc at hand?
<cjwatson> fabrice_sp: not really; we migrated to Launchpad for bugs in January 2006 - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-January/000054.html
<cjwatson> fabrice_sp: some of MOTU was using Launchpad for bugs before that, though
<fabrice_sp> thanks cjwatson
<fabrice_sp> And what exists before? (just looking for the root cause of a change in a pacakge, done for Breezy)
<cjwatson> Bugzilla
<cjwatson> fabrice_sp: you can use http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/ubuntu-bugzilla/<bug number> to look up an old Bugzilla bug number
<cjwatson> it'll redirect you to the imported bug in Launchpad
<cody-somerville> What env variable do you have to set to enable debhelper debugging?
<cody-somerville> or is DH_VERBOSE=1 what I want?
<james_w> "export" that at the top of debian/rules
<james_w> you might be able to do it from outside, I'm not sure
<cody-somerville> awesome, thanks
<LucidFox> ScottK> Reading the notify-osd comments, you seem to be rather pissed about it
 * LucidFox hopes this doesn't sound like flamebait
<maxb> I think there are quite a few people who are rather pissed about notify-osd :-)
<maxb> Myself included
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: you can run individual debhelper commands with DH_VERBOSE=1, which may be helpful
<cjwatson> (if the package doesn't use debian/compat, then beware that you need to use the appropriate DH_COMPAT from debian/rules too)
 * cody-somerville nods.
<RainCT> mok0: you're m-o-m merge proposal reverts my UI changes :P
<cody-somerville> I'm trying to find out why files aren't getting installed into the different binary packages anymore. I see that everything gets setup correctly in debian/tmp/. Its almost like dh_install -a --sourcedir=debian/tmp does nothing at all.
<cody-somerville> "dh_install -a -N$(PIKE)-core --sourcedir=debian/tmp $(DH_EXCLUDE)"
<pace_t_zulu> hi guys... i am trying to create a debdiff to provide to patch launchpad bug #301007
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301007 in matplotlib "python-matplotlib: missing package dependency (python-tk)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301007
<pace_t_zulu> i am following this guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
<pace_t_zulu> I have modified the source... i ran 'dch -i' to update the changelog
<pace_t_zulu> the current version of the package is ubuntu3 ... i have been unable to create the ubuntu4.dsc from which the debdiff will be created
<pace_t_zulu> can someone help me with this?
<geser> which error do you get?
<james_w> ;
<james_w> pace_t_zulu: did you run "debuild -S -us -uc"?
<pace_t_zulu> james_w: yeah it fails because of dependencies...
<pace_t_zulu> james_w: can i build with pdebuilder to generate ubuntu4.dsc ?
<james_w> with --use-pdebuild-internal I think
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: you must not have all dependencies installed to build the source. can you pastebin the output of debuild?
<geser> and you don't need all build-depends installed to build a source package, mostly the commons ones are enough (debhelper, cddbs)
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein: yes i am aware that i'm missing dependencies... that's why i'd like to use pdebuilder
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: you got me wrong, sorry. english is not my first language. there is no need to have all dependencies installed.
<geser> if you want to work on packages regularly it useful to have them installed
<Ampelbein> at least for source-building
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein: i am installing the build dependencies now... but for the future i'd like to be able to generate the subsequent .dsc file with pbuilder... sorry i referred to it as pdebuilder before
<pace_t_zulu> james_w: what were you saying about --use-pdebuild-internal?
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: can you pastebin the error you get with 'debuild -S -sd'?
<james_w> it's an argument
<james_w> read the manpage and work out how to use it
<Ampelbein> pace_t_zulu: or you can use pdebuild as a command to automatically build the source package and afterwards the binary in pbuilder.
<pace_t_zulu> james_w: argument to which command? pdebuild? or pbuilder?
<james_w> pace_t_zulu: pdebuild, that's what you asked me about
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein: working on getting the error... it is in the same buffer as the current aptitude install of the build dependencies
<pace_t_zulu> james_w: apologies, i realize that i am not doing things correctly here
<james_w> np
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein: http://paste.ubuntu.com/169884/
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein: i recognize the problem is the lack of build dependencies
<cody-somerville> james_w, I did as you suggested and I get lots of extra output except from dh_install
<pace_t_zulu> Ampelbein: i was hoping this could be addressed using pbuilder
<cody-somerville> james_w, dh_install -a -Npike7.8-core --sourcedir=debian/tmp -XSsleay -XMird -XMsql -Xmsql -XPDF -XFfmpeg -XOracle -Xoracle -Xsybase -XGnome -XGTK -XGDK -XDVB -XJava -XTTF
<cody-somerville> james_w, Does anything look wrong with that to you?
<james_w> a lot of -X
<cody-somerville> It was working before
<james_w> they're not matching everything in debian/tmp are they?
<james_w> what did you change? :-)
<james_w> pace_t_zulu: pbuilder works on source packages
<james_w> pace_t_zulu: you are having trouble building a source package, therefore you can't build one to give to pbuilder
<james_w> pace_t_zulu: however, pdebuild has a mode where it does more inside the chroot than normal
<pace_t_zulu> james_w: so i would need to use pdebuild ?
<cody-somerville> james_w, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/169885/
<pace_t_zulu> james_w: thank you for your help
<cody-somerville> james_w, the call to tree is for debugging.
<geser> pace_t_zulu: if you want to avoid installing the build-dependencies you can build the new source package by hand (but check afterwards if it only contains your changes)
<james_w> pace_t_zulu: using that, along with the right options, you may be able to get it to build you a source package inside the chroot
<geser> pace_t_zulu: dpkg-source -b sourcepkg-dir
<james_w> pace_t_zulu: however, I've never used that mode, and have no idea whether it even works, let alone all the steps that may be needed. All I know is that it starts with "pdebuild --use-pdebuild-internal", so I suggest that you start there.
<pace_t_zulu> james_w: i think you're solution with 'pdebuild --use-pdebuild-internal' will solve my issue
<pace_t_zulu> james_w, Ampelbein and geser: thank you for your help and patience with me
<james_w> cody-somerville: nothing jumps out at me.
<james_w> cody-somerville: tree confirms all of the files are in debian/tmp?
<cody-somerville> yup
<james_w> I assume that at least some of your packages are arch-dependent? :-)
<james_w> also, can you pastebin the log of the DH_VERBOSE run?
<james_w> and one of the package.install files that you expect to be acted on by these commands
<savvas> nixternal: here? would you care to upload a new fixed version for gnote? there were some inconsistencies with the license we fixed (included gfdl and a text file with it) :)
<cjwatson> pace_t_zulu: you could also use debuild's -d option to ignore build-dependencies for the purpose of building the source package
<cjwatson> pace_t_zulu: that ought to be rather simpler than involving pbuilder
<pace_t_zulu> cjwatson: thank you... i am uploading the debdiff as we speak
<pace_t_zulu> cjwatson: who should i contact to get this patch pushed through?
<cjwatson> no idea, I didn't read the whole conversation, just saw the question about debuild
<cjwatson> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment has docs about sponsorship
<cjwatson> awe: bug 375068: one would not conventionally file a merge bug until one has something to merge
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375068 in console-common "Please merge console-common 0.7.81 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375068
<cjwatson> awe: I thought you said it could be a straightforward sync, in which case why does the bug say it's a merge?
<cjwatson> awe: we normally use "merge" to mean that there still needs to be an Ubuntu change to the source package afterwards, and "sync" to mean a verbatim copy from Debian
<awe> cjwatson: cause i was wrong...
<awe> there are two /po dirs
<awe> it turns out that the zero length el.po was still in the debian upstream version
<cjwatson> right, in that case my original comment stands, usually you file a merge bug only once you have a debdiff to sponsor
<cjwatson> of course might as well just keep going now you've filed it, but for the next time
<awe> hmmm, then the wiki needs to be updated.  it says:
<awe> If you are not the previous uploaders, before you work on the merge, file a bug in Launchpad against the source-package product
<awe> anyways, i was just about to add the debdiff
<kmdm> Quick Q... If a binary package is missing from the repository (but the source package builds it fine) should I just file a bug for a no source change re-upload or something? (package in question is hardy/universe: libdkim-dev)
<geser> awe: it's in the wiki to avoid double work
<cjwatson> awe: oh, in this case, you'd talked to the previous uploader and I'd said I was happy for you to work on it, so no need for that step
<cjwatson> since, as geser says, the point of that step is to avoid me working on it
<cjwatson> (as previous uploader)
<geser> kmdm: libdkim-dev | 1:1.0.19-3 | http://archive.ubuntu.com jaunty/universe Packages
<geser> kmdm: it's there
<cjwatson> kmdm: if it weren't there, the question you would need to ask is "why is it magically missing, and why would a rebuild magically bring it back?"
<awe> cjwatson: ok, but i still need to file a bug in order to add the debdiffs right?  if so, next time i'll make sure i have the debdiffs ready and add them right away
<cjwatson> awe: yes
<awe> ok, thanks
<cjwatson> awe: it just struck me as odd while reading mail that's all :)
<geser> kmdm: overlooked that hardy
<awe> np
<kmdm> cjwatson: Because it was superseded by dkim-milter which Martin Pitt then subsequently deleted... as shown at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/libdkim-dev :)
<kmdm> geser: I said hardy ;)
<cjwatson> that's a good answer
<cjwatson> however, simply resurrecting it from the version in hardy is no good, because that would cause versions to go backwards
<cjwatson> I assume this is why the version in intrepid and beyond has an epoch
<kmdm> The binary package is still there though, from the same source package :S It would have just been handy to have the -dev package in the repos too...
<kmdm> err, I mean, libdkim0
<cjwatson> one could consider a stable release update to resurrect it, but SRUs need a pretty good reason
<cjwatson> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdate
<cjwatson> the SRU would have to add the epoch but have a lower version number than intrepid
<geser> "* Add an epoch to reclaim binary packages "stolen" by dkim-milter."
<cjwatson> if it's just for one-time use, you can probably fish out the libdkim-dev package from LP
<cjwatson> I agree this is a messy inconsistency
<kmdm> Aye, I was trying to build a custom exim4 package but pbuilder couldn't pull in libdkim-dev... and that's how I came across this :)
<kmdm> If no-one else is, I'll prepare a debdiff and stick it in launchpad so at least it's there for consideration and findable by others if they encounter the same thing... :)
<savvas> in order to upload a new version of gnote in "new" queue, do I upload it to revu again? there's a license fix
<savvas> (again)
<kmdm> If I've logged a bug which needs to be considered for SRU but also needs sponsorship do I subscribe motu-sru, u-u-s or indeed both?
<hyperair> motu-sru
<hyperair> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<hyperair> follow the steps in that link ^
<kmdm> hyperair: Yeah, I was reading the procedure there and motu-sru was step 3, but step 4 said to upload to -proposed and I can't do that, hence the query :)
<hyperair> motu-sru gives the ack, and only after that can someone sponsor you and upload it
<kmdm> Aha, thanks :)
<hyperair> =)
<LordKow> i dont understand why this MoM report is citing conflicts between the current ubuntu and new debian version in the package source directory. don't you always want to use the new source since it is a version upgrade?
<kklimonda> LordKow: MoM is stupid ;)
<LordKow> k :)
<kklimonda> LordKow: i guess it's a safety check for those ugly packages that don't use any patch system ;)
<LordKow> yea well it's kind of a violation of debian policy to directly change the source
<funkyHat> Why is drupal5 being packaged for Jaunty?
<funkyHat> Or am I missing something?
<directhex> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<directhex>   apache2-threaded-dev: Depends: apache2.2-common (= 2.2.11-2ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed
<directhex> boo
<maxb> amd64, perchance?
<ajmitch> directhex: you broke stuff?
<directhex> maxb, lpia and armel
<directhex> ajmitch, i didnt touch nuffink, mister
 * maxb curses that there is no ports rmadison
<funkyHat> Why is drupal5 being packaged for Karmic? I meant to say -.-
<directhex> for giggles
<directhex> like this: "tee hee!"
<binarymutant> if I wanted to package a plugin for pidgin should I try to get it into purple-plugin-pack (or whatever it's called) ?
<ajmitch> directhex: so can I interpret that as an Official MOTU Response now?
<directhex> ajmitch, yes. so sayeth ubuntu: "lulz"
 * ajmitch quotes out of context
<cjwatson> LordKow: it is NOT a violation of Debian policy to directly change the source.
<cjwatson> LordKow: (I'm one of the Debian policy editors)
<cjwatson> it is perfectly standard, even if many developers choose to use patch systems
<binarymutant> cjwatson, ? really?
<cjwatson> really.
<binarymutant> doesnt that mess with the checksum?
<cjwatson> no? which checksum in particular are you thinking of?
<azeem> directly changing the orig
<azeem> (I guess)
<cjwatson> (azeem knows this, but) changing the source "directly", i.e. without using a patch system, in the unpacked source package does not result in the .orig.tar.gz changing - the changes go into the .diff.gz
#ubuntu-motu 2009-05-12
<binarymutant> learn something new everyday
<porthose> Shouldn't the archive admin's be subscribed to bug #368505?  it's been ACKed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368505 in ampache "Please sync Ampache-3.4.4-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368505
<ajmitch> porthose: james_w may have removed ubuntu-archive from the subscribers if he thought it needed a fakesync (not sure why)
<james_w> I did
<james_w> it does need a fakesync
<porthose> ok  just checking :)
<james_w> ubuntu-archive admin aren't better placed to do that than any random developer
<ajmitch> different orig.tar.gz in that case?
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> so I unsubscribed the archive and subscribed the sponsors, so a larger pool of people where aware of it
<ajmitch> james_w: I think it could have been useful to have that in the bug comment - I can see you doing that from the +activity page though
<james_w> yes, it would have been
<james_w> however, I had a bunch of things to do
<james_w> and if someone didn't understand what a fakesync was they could ask
<micahg> has there been any interest in have the Doctrine ORM Framework as a package?
<lukjad007> Hi, is there a channel for the Multiverse Repos, or is this it here?
<maxb> here
<lukjad007> maxb Ah.
<lukjad007> Well, I've noticed something for the last couple of releases. The "Funguloids" game has unresolved dependencies.
<maxb> what a weird name
<lukjad007> maxb I wouldn't know, I've never been able to play it. ;)
<maxb> hmm, so it does. File a bug?
<maxb> (If there isn't already one)
<lukjad007> I think there must be. I only heard of the game because of it.
<lukjad007> But, I will look for it.
 * maxb wonders when it last build...
<lukjad007> Here it is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/funguloids/+bug/194686
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 194686 in ogre-contrib "Error installing Funguloids: ogre-plugins-cgprogrammanager doesnt exist" [Medium,Confirmed]
<maxb> jm, intrepid/jaunty, not that old
<maxb> *hm
<maxb> What's ogre, do you know?
<lukjad007> maxb Sorry, No.
 * maxb initializes a karmic cowbuilder
<lukjad007> maxb I am only an advanced user.
<lukjad007> Anyway, I've confirmed the conformation.
<xnox`> !fakesync
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about fakesync
<xnox`> what is a fakesync?
<maxb> IIUC, it's a upload to Ubuntu that has a version number and content as if it was a sync
<maxb> usually done because Debian and Ubuntu have ended up with bytewise different .orig.tar.gz files for the same version, so the normal sync process is invalid
<xnox`> Aha. And how do you fix "fakesyncs" from both sides (Ubuntu/Debian) so that regular syncs can procede?
<xnox`> by using same tarball in the next upload in both?
<maxb> If the reason is .orig.tar.gz mismatch, I think the problem fixes itself automatically once a new upstream version is uploaded to Debian
 * maxb notes that funguloids is now FTBFS in karmic
<xnox`> ok cool. Another question - Distro specific patches. For example I'm patching upstream docs to instead of saying "report bugs to upstream@mailing list" to say "report bugs to BTS" but I would also would like to include an ubuntu specific patch which will then instead say "report bugs to launchpad".
<xnox`> Is there a was to create such smart patches. I'm thinking some extra metadata in the patch such that the ubuntu builders will pick it up.
<xnox`> The idea is to have the debian-syncs to still work. On the other hand it brings a security risk in a way that a patch which isn't applied in Debian ends up breaking Ubuntu (although the intend was different)
<directhex> xnox`, possible but annoying
<xnox`> As a kind debian maintainer I would still include debian/patches/ubuntu_fix_ftbs_new_python.patch but not add it to series file just to keep the diff smaller.
 * xnox` loves quilt & latest dh7 way better than cdbs
<directhex> we do things like this a little bit in pkg-cli-apps
<directhex> and pkg-mono
<cjwatson> it's about to get somewhat easier in karmic, I hope
<cjwatson> dpkg 1.15.1 will have a 'dpkg-vendor' script, so you can test the exit code of 'dpkg-vendor --derived-from Ubuntu'
<cjwatson> (or 'dpkg-vendor --is Ubuntu')
<directhex> cjwatson, that would be nicer than lsb_release
<directhex> cjwatson, i'm pretty sure i'm breaking things on distros like mint
<xnox`> these are some of the issues even though in our ecosystem we all use dpkg we do have our own little things which gives as advantages but on the other hand create barriers for fixes and security issues, resulting in delays between the members in the DAG of Debian-like systems. (think all types*architectures*variant)
<qiyong> hi, is zippo popular in your area?
<ScottK> LucidFox: I'm not real happy about it.  I am happy it wasn't imposed on Kubuntu for Jaunty.
<LucidFox> ah
<mib_x96owjor> hello room
<mib_x96owjor> how do you install java?
<Pici> mib_x96owjor: This isn't a support channel, please ask in #ubuntu
<mib_x96owjor> ok, thanks
<mib_x96owjor> bye
<jacob> how might I add a comment to merge-o-matic? would like to link twitux to a bug/sync
<nhandler> jacob: There is a column on the far right that has a hidden text box. Just click on it to add a comment
<nhandler> jacob: If you can't find the text box, tell me the name of the package and the comment you want to add, and I can add it for you
<jacob> ^ was about to respond! d'oh. found it, someone tell him I said thanks if he returns tonight. :P
<lifeless> ScottK: btw, you can use it with ubuntuone; its the generic Ubuntu they mean.
<nixternal> someone asked me today, "What do you know about Ubuntu One?"  I responded, "You mean Canonical One, Mark's jet, it's an airplane, it flys."  :)
<nixternal> had no clue about Ubuntu One until today, well I knew about it, just didn't know what it was going to be called
<kklimonda> is it something like dropbox? with similar features?
<nixternal> looks like it...I think Mark hinted on going for more of a "Mobile Me" type system
<kklimonda> a bit expensive..
<kklimonda> but i shouldn't complain as I probably won't use 2GB ;)
<nixternal> I haven't even used a 1gb on dropbox yet
<e-jat> nixternal: so u use dropbox n ubuntuone?
<nixternal> just dropbox
<e-jat> just try the ubuntuone .. already file a bugs .. :(
<nixternal> don't you need an invite to try it?
<e-jat> yeah .. u can request the invitation ..
<e-jat> im just lucky to see invitation in my inbox ..
<superm1> how did they decide who to invite then?
<nixternal> hrmm, speaking of that, I just noticed that my dropbox isn't working on this machine
<e-jat> thats why i give a try
<kklimonda> e-jat: lucky you :)
<nixternal> heh, after I said that about the invite, I got one sitting in my inbox...didn't even see that
<e-jat> thanks kklimonda
<e-jat> superm1: maybe ubuntu members got it ..
<superm1> e-jat, oh i was gonna say if that's it then nixternal should have one, and then i saw he did :)
<kklimonda> "but we are not releasing the source code to the servers at this time." heh ;)
<e-jat> superm1: :)
<e-jat> wb RoAkSoAx
<RoAkSoAx> hello e-jat
<e-jat> bug 375249
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375249 in ubuntuone-client "Segmentation fault" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375249
<e-jat> kklimonda: me unlucky .. cant get the applet work
<kklimonda> ehehehe, welcome to the hell of beta testing ;}
<kklimonda> e-jat: at least you can play with web interface :)
<kklimonda> all i can see is some not so bad front page :)
<kklimonda> i like the fact that canonical is using openid for all pages..
<kklimonda> I don't have to remember another set of l/p..
<ajmitch> greetings
<kklimonda> hey
<e-jat> kklimonda: :)
<e-jat> kklimonda: openid is c00l
<e-jat> brb .. going to take my launch ..
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<siretart> hey ajmitch!
<siretart> how are you?
<ajmitch> good, how are you?
<siretart> fine, thanks
<siretart> rather busy this week, have to finish a conference paper and stuff..
 * ajmitch is still finishing off a project at work this week
<ajmitch> and then it's onto the next one in the pile :)
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hiya ajmitch
<didrocks> morning everybody o/
<didrocks> DktrKranz: do you have some minutes for a python transition related question?
<DktrKranz> didrocks: fire it
<DktrKranz> (and good morning, btw)
<didrocks> DktrKranz: so, I updated some days again vte to 0.20.1-0ubuntu1. All was well, sun was shining... :)
<didrocks> then, I merged with the debian version producing 0.20.1-1ubuntu1 and troubles come around :) it FTBFS:
<didrocks> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vte/1:0.20.1-1ubuntu1/+build/992606/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.vte_1:0.20.1-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<didrocks> the issue is that it's still using site-packages
<didrocks> I found no clue why the behavior changes (no explicit setup.py call)
 * DktrKranz looks
<didrocks> the bzr branch is there : ~ubuntu-desktop/vte/ubuntu
<didrocks> The only thing which worked out was to pass -d to dh_pysupport as in the old package
<didrocks> but it copies files in usr/lib/pyshared/python2.6/ instead of usr/lib/python-support/python-vte/python2.6
<didrocks> (I don't know the difference between pyshared, which seems to be used in debian and python-support/package-name)
<DktrKranz> new pysupport places files in new locations
<didrocks> ok, so python-support/package-name is the new location?
<didrocks> what I tried too in this package is to add again debian/pyversions and set XS-Python-Version to 2.4... but nothing worked. I'm really stucked :(
<dholbach> didrocks: I just got the same problem with a human-theme upload
<didrocks> dholbach: did you achieve to fix it? :)
<dholbach> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cdbs/+bug/374892
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 374892 in cdbs "Use correct root path when converting dist- to site- in arch packages" [Undecided,New]
<dholbach> that could be it
<didrocks> let me check
<dholbach> let's move to #ubuntu-devel
<DktrKranz> didrocks: could you please grep upstream code to see if they hardcode site-packages somewhere?
<didrocks> DktrKranz: I did and it's the case in configure.ac file. But it was already the case in the previous revision with no patch
<DktrKranz> I see, I'll have a testbuild
<didrocks> DktrKranz: look at the link that dholbach provided. I may be related
<DktrKranz> didrocks: probably
<didrocks> DktrKranz: that's really strange. If you bzr diff last revision and -r -3
<didrocks> you will see that changes aren't huge :/
<LordKow> q: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26622104/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-powerpc.hotkeys_0.5.7.4-0.2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz i believe this happened because the build happened during a libxmu upgrade
<LordKow> will this automatically be rebuilt or will i need to bug report it?
<maxb> When a file is moved between binary packages, what is the correct incantation to avoid a dpkg file overwrite error?
<maxb> Should a versioned Replaces be used, or a versioned Conflicts+Replaces ?
<maxb> binary packages built by the same source, if that matters
<LordKow> maxb: the source in which a file was moved between a package should deal with conflicts/replaces itself i would think
<LordKow> at least, the conflict portion
<LordKow> hmm
<maxb> yes that's my point, the maintainer has moved a file between packages without being aware they need to provide the necessary extra hinting to allow clean upgrades
<DktrKranz> didrocks: "checking for python script directory... ${prefix}/lib/python2.6/site-packages
<DktrKranz> it hardcodes it somewhere, so it has to be adjusted, I'll have a look
<LordKow> so how should we feel about syncing a debian package that does not use patches for it's changes to the source (they're shown within the diff.gz)? either that or we fork with the same changes but reflected as patches
<cody-somerville> We sync
<LordKow> k
<didrocks> DktrKranz: it was already the case with the previous version
<didrocks> DktrKranz: I think this is a cdbs issue. Because compiling today the old revision have the same behavior
<DktrKranz> didrocks: indeed, just noticed that. I prefer debhelper over cdbs, so I need to look at how it handles Python stuff, the patch you mentioned is for distutils, so it should not impact vte, though.
<didrocks> DktrKranz: ok. If you have any idea about this, you're really welcome :)
<DktrKranz> didrocks: are other packages FTBFS? dholbach said somethinh about human-theme
<didrocks> DktrKranz: this is related to his bug report
<LordKow> what is the ubuntu policy on various sections in .desktop files? i am working on a package in which section = video want to know if that is fine or if it should be AudioVideo
<LordKow> doh, bad changelog entry got me. it was referring to debian's video repository ;)
<DktrKranz> didrocks: did you try to give-back it? I see different results here
<DktrKranz> and it could probably be OK
<didrocks> DktrKranz: the layout is different?
<DktrKranz> yes
<didrocks> you don't have a pyshared but a python-support ?
<DktrKranz> didrocks: oh, I didn't look at -dbg package, it was that which has the offending path
<didrocks> yes
<DktrKranz> so a give-back would FTBFS again
<didrocks> ok... so that's not where it failed
<didrocks> DktrKranz: I really think that's an exterior element which makes it fail (as the previous version has now the same issue)
<DktrKranz> yeah
<didrocks> maybe doko is aware of that. I will try to ping him
<directhex> dholbach, do i have a comment sat in moderation/spam on behind motu?
<dholbach> directhex: at least I didn't get an email about it
<directhex> dholbach, no mail usually means akismet
<dholbach> directhex: you're right
<dholbach> approved
<directhex> ;)
<DktrKranz> didrocks: what .PRECIOUS does exactly?
<didrocks> DktrKranz: it's telling what files must not be cleaned in the clean rules for makefile. Debian dropped it
<LordKow> should i be doing anything if a package i had synced FTBFS. the failure has nothing to do with the package itself. the sync bug was marked as 'fix released'
<jpds> LordKow: If it has nothing to do with it, no, other than fix the other package.
<jpds> LordKow: Sync is done => fix released.
<LordKow> jpds: the problem was/is that one of the deps was partially upgraded when it tried building
<LordKow> libxmu to be precise
<LordKow> so i dont think there is anything i can do except maybe feed the build farm some energy ;)
<jpds> Oh, they get plenty of power.
<jpds> LordKow: Link to build log?
<LordKow> jpds: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hotkeys/0.5.7.4-0.2/+build/997649/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-powerpc.hotkeys_0.5.7.4-0.2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jpds> LordKow: Oh, ppc and the other arches are usually slow to catch up
<LordKow> yea, so will it be automatically rebuilt or is some sort of user intervention required to make that happen when the time is right?
<jpds> It should automatically build later.
<LordKow> jpds: ty
<DktrKranz> didrocks: maybe I found something...
<didrocks> DktrKranz: really ? :)
<DktrKranz> didrocks: uploading to my PPA to be sure
<didrocks> DktrKranz: ok, keep me in touch :)
<loic-m> Ive got an mplayer karmic failure to build because of missing liblzo-dev dependency in my ppa. I checked http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/mplayer and the dependency is in the control file (see the diff.gz) but not listed on the web page
<loic-m> Is there a reason it builds in ubuntu's repos but not my ppa?
<loic-m> (I'm using the same source package)
<loic-m> I could remove the dependency myself, but i'm test building the rdepends of xvidcore, and need to use the same source pkg as in the repos
<didrocks> loic-m: I don't know if ppa have pkgbinarymangler installed
<maxb> loic-m: rmadison says there is no liblzo-dev in karmic
<maxb> PPAs deliberately don't binarymangle
<loic-m> There's no man page for pkgbinarymangler on manpages.ubuntu.com and I'm a bit lost atm
<maxb> pkgbinarymangler is not the issue
<maxb> loic-m: liblzo-dev doesn't exist in karmic
<loic-m> maxb: yes, but then how comes mplayer builds in karmic?
<maxb> It probably doesn't any more
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone review sabily-keyring (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=5729) ?
<loic-m> Which mean if something is attempting a rebuild of mplayer for karmic in Ubuntu's repositories, it will fail?
<maxb> Likely
<maxb> launchpad says it last built in jaunty
<maxb> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/2:1.0~rc2-0ubuntu19
<loic-m> maxb: I thought they were rebuild at each new cycle
<siretart> loic-m: if you catch someone who actually work on mplayer in ubuntu, please report him to me
<loic-m> maxb: do you have any idea how I can test build it in the meantime (for bug #306399)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306399 in xvidcore "New upstream version available (1.2.1)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/306399
<loic-m> siretart: no clue at all
<siretart> loic-m: best thing we can do about mplayer (IMO) is to take the debian package as basis, and enhance it to build mencoder in addition to mplayer
<siretart> I tried, but don't think i'll manage to finish that this or next week
<maxb> loic-m: Why do you need to rebuild it?
<maxb> (Sorry, that's a long bug to read quickly)
<loic-m> maxb: to test if it still builds using latest xvidcore
<maxb> oh, right. Well, you'll need to either fix it to not require lzo, or build it in jaunty, I guess
<DktrKranz> didrocks: it builds (waiting for i386 to finish, but it should be ok): https://edge.launchpad.net/~dktrkranz/+archive/ppa/+files/vte_1:0.20.1-1ubuntu1_1:0.20.1-1ubuntu2.diff.gz
<loic-m> siretart: If you work on mplayer, can you try with xvidcore-1.2.1 instead of 1.1.2?
<siretart> in 2-3 weeks, remind me again :)
<loic-m> siretart: packages are at https://launchpad.net/~loic-martin3/+archive/xvid and the diff.gz on the bug report
<loic-m> siretart: thanks
<siretart> sorry
<siretart> bbl, sigfood caught.
<loic-m> maxb: I guess atm I'll try on Jaunty
<didrocks> DktrKranz: I have to look at the package layout, first :)
<loic-m> siretart: no pb for the delay. mine is one cycle late ;)
<lezedepeze_> please go on that link:
<lezedepeze_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<lezedepeze_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<lezedepeze_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<lezedepeze_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<lezedepeze_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<lezedepeze_> http://www.schwimmbadspiel.de/?refId=99828434
<iulian> Stop that.
<iulian> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpatrick!
<mok0> iulian: it's a spammer
<popey> Pointy stick of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
<iulian> Hobbsee!
 * Hobbsee MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<Hobbsee> iulian: heya!
<mok0> Hobbsee: he was here with another name yesterday
<Hobbsee> mok0: same IP?
<Hobbsee> @btlogin
<mok0> Hobbsee: I don't knw
<Hobbsee> got him, and got him again.
<mok0> Hobbsee: great, thx
<ajmitch> and he's not even restricting activities to ubuntu channels
<wgrant> Sounds like a K-line to me.
<ajmitch> one would hope so
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you joined #plone about 3 seconds too late
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yeah, i suspected so
<Hobbsee> nothing i can do there
<ajmitch> and now he hits the world of warcraft channels on freenode :)
<ajmitch> ah well
<didrocks> DktrKranz: it's still in usr/lib/psyhared/python2.x and not python-support/package-name. So, the issue still remains
 * ajmitch goes back to hunting stuff
<ajmitch> or fixing up the merge which still had jaunty in the changelog...
<StevenK> There's WoW channels?
<ajmitch> StevenK: mostly addon development channels
 * ajmitch uploads again, this time with karmic
 * StevenK mourns for maintaince
<ajmitch> StevenK: 12 hour maintenance for your usual realm?
<StevenK> Yup
<ajmitch> fun
<StevenK> I suspect they have teams all over the Blizzard datacentres swapping out machines
<lifeless> I suspect db reindexing
<StevenK> They specifically said hardware, too
<lifeless> oh, interesting
<lifeless> its a shame they don't get clustering and HA
<StevenK> I suspect each realm really is a cluster of 6-8 machines
<StevenK> But I guess I'll never know
<ajmitch> it supposedly is, from what we've heard
<lifeless> StevenK: there are services per map region; instance servers, battlegroup servers, common db for storage
<lifeless> StevenK: counts unknown
<lifeless> clustering tech may be known, but I haven't gone looking
<ajmitch> sigh, I've passed my package upload count for jaunty already, I think
<azeem> ajmitch: good thing karmic is there!
<ajmitch> azeem: yes, I was unclear - with the packages I uploaded to karmic alrady, it's more than I uploaded to jaunty :)
<POX> didrocks, DktrKranz: don't depend on python-support's internals (usr/lib/psyhared/python2.x vs. python-support/package-name issue)
<POX> do all you have to do *before* invoking dh_pysupport
<POX> (same with dh_pycentral, btw)
<mok0> StevenK: what's the status of the poulsbo drivers for jaunty?
<didrocks> POX: I don't really get you. The previous upload (two weeks ago), was working well, with the same dh_pysupport call
<StevenK> mok0: Underway
<mok0> StevenK: Cool ;-)
<POX> didn't you sync python-support ~2 weeks ago?
<POX> if yes, its internals changed
<POX> and since apparently this package depends on it, it fails
<POX> ergo: don't depend on pysupport's internals
<didrocks> POX: Debian depends on it. The idea is to merge as close as possible to Debian
<didrocks> POX: let me check python-support upload
<POX> (and everything that contains "pyshared" or "python-support/package-name" is using py{support,central} internals
<POX> didrocks: pysupport 1.0 was in Debian experimental for a while (so that packages that use its internals could be fixed before it hit unstable)
<POX> so if this package still uses these internals, just sync it with Debian
<mok0> Hm, gcalctool is so amazingly buggy that we should remove it from the distro
<didrocks> POX: We still have ubuntu changes in it, that's why we can't sync it
<didrocks> POX: I will check the python-support version used to build it
<didrocks> afk for lunch :)
<POX> didrocks: anyway, solution will be to sync with Debian or at least merge debian/rules
<mok0> What's ubuntuone? Is is a scam?
<POX> (even if I don't know what package is it, only few are still not fixed in Debian)
<ajmitch> mok0: it's a canonical service, at least
<mok0> ajmitch: I got an "invitation" by email to join
<ajmitch> mok0: yes, all ubuntu members got that.
<mok0> ajmitch: ... amazingly simple way to get access to peoples files :-)
<ajmitch> the intentions were good, not so sure if they did the mass-invite the right way :)
<DktrKranz> POX: I didn't look at it well, one of Ubuntu deltas is a -dbg package, but it doesn't seem it relies on pysupport internals (hardcoded path or so)
<VK7HSE> just been having a fiddle with squid for possible merge, I've got it down to only one warning being, W: squid source: patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff cfgaux/config.guess and 1 more  any suggestions ???
 * VK7HSE has just been called out of the room! (Gahh!)
<directhex> VK7HSE, config.guess should be deleted in the "clean" rule.
<cjwatson> VK7HSE: is the same warning emitted for the Debian package?
<directhex> cjwatson, i can't imagine why it wouldn't
<directhex> or i can begin to imagine, then my brain blocks it out
<cjwatson> if it is, then there's no need to worry about it at merge time
<ajmitch> VK7HSE: squid was uploaded a few hours ago
<didrocks> POX: I merged it with Debian :)
<didrocks> POX: and they have pyshared and not python-support
<didrocks> as a path
<POX> didrocks: then it's still not fixed in Debian as well
<POX> file a bug (or reopen the old one)
<didrocks> POX: I think Debian install in /usr/lib/pyshared and don't bother about /usr/lib/python-support/package_name
<didrocks> POX: ok, the previous version (with the right path) was installed with previous python-support version. I have to figure out how to test it in my pbuilder
<POX> no, package shoudl install to standard Python paths, dh_pysupport will move it to /usr/{share,lib}/pyshared
<POX> but package shold not depend on it
<POX> /usr/lib/python-support/package_name is old path, new python-support uses pyshared (to be compatible with python-central)
<didrocks> POX: really? I found no documentation on that
<POX> but python-central doesn't use /usr/lib/pyshared (one of the reasons we use python-support now in Debian)
<POX> didrocks: /usr/share/doc/python-support/README.gz
<didrocks> POX: thanks, reading it now :)
<didrocks> POX: ok "Public extensions (.so files) are handled just like public modules [...] will be located in /usr/lib/pyshared/pythonX.Y/"
<didrocks> so, pyshared is the right location for .so
<POX> it is, but dh_pysupport will handle moving the files
<POX> you can install to /usr/{,local/}lib/python2.X/site-packages - dh_pysupport will detect it and move the files
<didrocks> POX: that is what it is doing. So everything's right now. Thanks to DktrKranz, -dbg package is also fixed :)
<didrocks> (thanks DktrKranz and POX for the clarification, btw :D)
<\sh> hmm...do i miss something or is the "request team membership" button on LP missing? (especially for universe sponsors)
<james_w> \sh: it's a restricted team, you have to be added
<james_w> congratulations btw
<\sh> james_w: thx :)
<\sh> james_w: sure..I know...but somehow there needs to be an "apply for membership" link or something ... to make it easier then to write an email to the team owner...
<\sh> afaik there was in the past...
<james_w> you can just ping Emmet or Luke here
 * persia goes to add \sh to the team
<directhex> congratulations? i'm congratulating \sh for something?
<\sh> persia: readd ;)
<\sh> directhex: I became daddy of a wonderful boy:)
<persia> \sh, Indeed, for the fourth time or so, if I remember correctly.
<directhex> \sh, oh, yes, i remember now. i'm still of a maturity level where i see infants as something to run in fear from... congrats though!
<\sh> directhex: hehe..I know that feeling..but now everything is different :)
<ajmitch> \sh: let me add my congratulations to the pile :)
<\sh> ajmitch: thx :)
<persia> \sh, Your gold star has been restored.
<\sh> persia: thx a lot
<loic-m> What's the procedure in launchpad to request an upgrade from upstream on a multiverse package (in karmic)? Attach the diff.gz then subscribe motu-release?
<persia> loic-m, subscribe the sponsors, not the release team.
<persia> (or just upload, if you have another way to do that)
<loic-m> persia: thanks
<papo> hello
<papo> I've been dealing with bugs 221332 and 373767 and I've been wondering whether the maintainers are interested in one or both patches
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221332 in tiemu "The tiemu package is heavily outdated" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221332
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 373767 in tiemu "Incorrect keyboard mapping" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373767
<persia> papo, You've exposed a documentation failure :)  Thanks.
<persia> !sponsoring
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sponsoring
<persia> Bother.  Two of them.
<persia> papo, I think you want https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperGuide/Sponsorship : this documents the best way to get visibility for your patches, and get them applied.
<papo> well
<papo> persia: to be honest, I'm very lazy. The point is that the "patch" (I'm not even using dpatch in the PPA) should be broken into two parts and some ubuntu guys should decide which one (or both) should go into the package. Now it would be quite annoying if I would have done that work for nothing. That's why I'd prefer it if someone actually would make the decision before I continue with any work. After that, I'd really love to clean it up
<papo> persia: Oh and there's also a couple of fixes I applied because lintian was complaining
<papo> and what do you mean by documentation failure?
<persia> In that we didn't document that the best way to request patch review was in that manner so that you came here.
<papo> ah I see :)
<persia> The issue is mostly that there aren't any "maintainers" of any specific packages in Ubuntu: it's all rather team-oriented.
<persia> If you need a decision, that needs someone specifically familiar with tiemu, which makes it extra complicaed.
<persia> On the other hand, if you care about tiemu, and want to keep it going well, there's no reason you can't be the person who takes care of it.
<persia> (looks like nobody has given it much thought for the past year or so)
<papo> persia: I mean the patch is not trivial in some sense. I'm changing something which is done the wrong way in my opinion and the implement this properly needs quite some testing. tiemu can implement several calculators and I'm just using one etc.
<papo> yep indeed
<VK7HSE> cjwatson: sorry I got called away from the PC!... just read the result about it already being done so I'll pick another one to have a try at!...
<persia> papo, With a bit more looking, it appears there is no tiemu maintainer, either in Debian or Ubuntu.
<papo> aw
<persia> And nobody who made significant changes in a while.  It may as well be you, if you're up for it.
<papo> well I could do it. I've been Debian maintainer some years ago and started the developer process thing but I had to give it away because if time issues
<papo> now things look better again
<cjwatson> if you're looking for a tiemu expert, I suspect the best person to talk to would be the upstream maintainer ...
<persia> papo, Given that it's orphaned in Debian, I'd recommend reviewing the bugs (in both LP and the BTS), and pushing the new version there.  If that takes too long, please come back, and we'll help you get it here first.
<cjwatson> (assuming they're still active)
<papo> cjwatson: yes they are active
<papo> cjwatson: I'm about to hand in my patch there too, of course
<Toadstool> good afternoon everybody
<papo> persia: Ok, I'll check with my favorite debian sponsor then
<DktrKranz> didrocks: I tried to import modules (debug ones too) and they work. If you have a test case to run, I could launch it
<persia> papo, Thanks a lot!  It's always great to see someone take over one of these orphaned packaged.
<persia> hey Toadstool
<papo> yw
<Toadstool> hi persia
<didrocks> DktrKranz: it seems to be ok. I tested it too and it's working. I ask pitti and he sponsored it before Alpha-1
<didrocks> DktrKranz: thanks a lot for your help. I'm a little more confident with python packages now :)
<DktrKranz> didrocks: has it been uploaded already?
<didrocks> DktrKranz: It seems that pitti did. I pushed it into bzr
<DktrKranz> cool :)
<didrocks> DktrKranz: thanks again for your help :)
<DktrKranz> you're welcome ;)
<VK7HSE> I need a mentor! I've just uploaded to my LP PPA  "libhtml-parser-perl" ( https://launchpad.net/~vk7hse/+archive/ppa ) could some one please take a look once this has build please..
<quadrispro> ouch
<jmehdi> I need help with this package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=webstrict, I've uploaded several versions but they don't appear (and I think they should be removed so I could upload a good new version)
<ScottK> cemc: Did you look into merging qpsmtpd?
<mok0> jmehdi: just upload the last good version
<mok0> jmehdi: last upload was 22. Feb 2009 18:27
<jmehdi> mok0: I've uploaded yesterday...
<mok0> jmehdi: ah :-)
<jmehdi> mok0: are there errors with them? (that I could fix before uploading the good one)
<cemc> ScottK: not yet, but I will
<ScottK> OK.
<mok0> jmehdi: uhm, if you have a better upload, it's not worth wasting MOTU time by reviewing an outdated version
<jmehdi> mok0: no I want Motu to review my 1.4 version
<jmehdi> mok0: do you see my yesterday uploads?
<mok0> jmehdi: hang on
<mok0> jmehdi: yes I see them
<mok0> jmehdi: looks like they're in the wrong place for some reason
<jmehdi> mok0: did I do something wrong?
<mok0> jmehdi: no
<mok0> RainCT: you have time to help with revu?
<mok0> RainCT: some uploads are stuck and don't appear
<RainCT> Hey mok0
<RainCT> sure
<mok0> RainCT: looks like they're stuck in /srv/uploads
<mok0> RainCT: guessing process_uploads.sh should run but not sure
<RainCT> mok0: "sudo /srv/move_uploads.sh" is the command, but there's nothing for it to process right now
<mok0> RainCT: in /srv/uploads?
<RainCT> mok0: OK, I see. The stuff in uploads/ are binary uploads
<RainCT> So REVU doesn't want them
<RainCT> it's all _i386.changes (and one _amd64.changes) containing a .deb, instead of _source.changes uploads
<mok0> RainCT: ah
<mok0> jmehdi: you DID do something wrong :-)
<jmehdi> I knew it ! :)
<jmehdi> actually I've used "bzr builddeb" then dput revu
<mok0> jmehdi: you need to dput  your _source.changes file
<mok0> jmehdi: ah bzr is above my level of knowledge
<james_w> bzr builddeb -S
 * mok0 is not friends with bzr
<mok0> In fact bzr hates me
<mok0> Right RainCT?
<RainCT> Haha
<mok0> RainCT: PS I will branch your version and try again
<jmehdi> james_w: thanks! so simple :)
<mok0> bzr is a victim of freeping creaturism if you ask me
<dholbach> Vorian: I just had a look at StephenStalcup/PbuilderFoo - it's a bit similar to what pbuilder-dist does, right?
<jmehdi> great, my 1.4 version is displayed now :)  If someone could review it (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=5737)
<jmehdi> a question about versioning, the webstrict upstream app has a 1.4 version, the package is 1.4-0ubuntu1. If I have something to update in my package files, which version should I put?
<persia> dholbach, Almost precisely the same thing, but targeted differently.  I remember some discussion during a recent application.
<persia> jmehdi, In short, 1.4-0ubuntu2
<persia> The part before the '-' is the "version", and the part after the '-' is the "revision".  The version should match the version of the upstream release, and the revision be incremented as there are distribution changes.
<Vorian> dholbach: yeah?
<jmehdi> persia: thanks ;)
<Vorian> persia doesn't like it at all irrc, but for idiots like me it's much easier to understand
<persia> Vorian, Hrm?
<Vorian> pbuilder-foo
<Vorian> you didn't like the duplication or some such
<persia> I thought it was duplicate, until you explained the target audience.  I still think that integration would be good, but that doesn't mean that what you've done isn't useful.
<Vorian> ah, ok
<persia> Sorry for any confusion.
<Vorian> :)  no need to apologize
<jmehdi> a question about revu: the review process could not be more "automatic"? I mean, my webstrict package has been reviewed by persia and rainct, but I don't want to bother them again and again...
<jmehdi> There could be a kind of "queue" with all requests and MOTU could review them one after the other, so no request is forgotten
<jmehdi> and so we wouldn't have to ask MOTUs directly...
<persia> There is a queue of sorts.
<persia> That's the point of the REVU interface, to provide things in a date-sorted order.
<persia> Unfortunately, the reviewers were never quite able to keep up with the queue, and many reviewers prefer to review for people active here, which complicates things.
<artfwo> hello! I actually came to bother the MOTU with a request to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/supercollider - a really neat software synthesizer!
<artfwo> (but with a pretty hairy package)
<persia> Right.  I owe you that one :)
<jmehdi> persia: ok I understand
<artfwo> persia: I also fixed a couple of notices you gave me during your review of scantailor
<jmehdi> persia: so we should be active here and bother you to make things progress ;)
<persia> artfwo, Please don't use so many lintian overrides.  It's better to leave warnings you aren't going to fix, unless you have some reason to believe lintian is wrong in the case of your package.
<artfwo> but last year I have been told to override them all just here at #ubuntu-motu!
<persia> And at least some of these have the potential to cause all sorts of issues (e.g. sharedobject-in-library-directory-missing-soname
<jmehdi> btw how long does it take to review a package?
<persia> Bother.
<persia> jmehdi, Between 2 days and 2 years, depending on a very large number of variables.
<jmehdi> persia: actually I mean just to review an upload, not for the package to be approved
<RainCT> artfwo: overrides are only to hide warnings which are wrong (be it because lintian has a bug and gives a false positive, or because for some special reason the warning doesn't concern your package)
<persia> artfwo, I don't suppose you remember who suggested that, do you?  I'd like to debate it with them.
<persia> artfwo, An example of an override you *do* want is the supercollider-emacs warning.
<mok0> jmehdi: keep asking every hour or so... :-)
<persia> Um, no, that's counter-productive.
<persia> Asking every day (or every couple hours during REVU day) is better.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jmehdi> persia: ok
<artfwo> persia: overrides have been suggested by mok0
<persia> mok0, Could you explain why it's a good idea to override everything?
<artfwo> and at least sharedobject-in-library-directory-missing-soname is okay
<artfwo> supercollider always had a monolithic api
<mok0> persia: I suggested that?
<mok0> artfwo: I am lost
<mok0> Ah you are talking about sc
<artfwo> yes
 * mok0 refreshes memory
<mok0> artfwo: what overrides are you talking about? I am confused
<artfwo> mok0: lintian overrides in http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/supercollider
<persia> Having stuff in /usr/lib (and not /usr/lib/sc) without a soname is just worrisome to me, and rpath breaks all sorts of things far too often.
<mok0> artfwo: good news is that it builds
<artfwo> persia: but it's the upstream way of doing things
<artfwo> is it rightful to break the upstream way in a package?
<directhex> yes
<mok0> ah
<mok0> artfwo, persia I don't recommend all of these overrides
<persia> artfwo, Generally we provide a fake SONAME whilst trying to teach upstream the error of their ways.
<mok0> artfwo: you should not override things that are fixable
<persia> mok0, That's what I thought :)
<artfwo> but these things just don't seem fixable to me
<mok0> But, for example the "desktop-command-not-in-package" are intended to be so, so there it makes sense to override
<persia> Right.  That's a well-used override.
<artfwo> well, what about binary-without-manpage for scvim scripts?
<artfwo> they're never called by a user directly
<mok0> artfwo: that's fixable :-)
<persia> (well, in this case.  overriding to avoid issues with e.g. gnome-sudo is wasteful, and it's better to leave the error lying around in case someone ports it to a more sensible privilege escalation method).
<persia> artfwo, The manpage should *say* they oughtn't be called, or the scripts should be placed in /usr/lib/supercollider (which won't trigger the lintian warning).
<mok0> artfwo: the rpath thing you can fix
<RainCT> Why are they in /usr/bin at all (if they are there, I'm just guessing) if users won't want to call them?
<RainCT> Ah nvm, guess that was a stupid question :)
<artfwo> is rpath always evil?
<mok0> A rhetorical question...
<persia> rpath isn't always evil, but it's almost never used correctly.
<mok0> artfwo: not if it's set right
<mok0> persia: actually, when using autotools (correctly) it gets set to /usr/bin (for example)
<persia> And there's a strong argument that there's no good reason to use rpath for distro-supplied software, and that it ought be left to 3rd party stuff that needs to use e.g. /opt
<RainCT> directhex: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=582332   that's one for you ;)
<ubottu> Gnome bug 582332 in Core "gmcs2 is not detected as a valid gmcs" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<artfwo> but if I keep two supercolliders in my system? for example in /usr and /usr/local?
<artfwo> rpath will allow to pick a right library, right?
<persia> Um, sorta.
<persia> It depends on how your loader is configured, etc.
<artfwo> hmmm
<persia> But you *don't* want to do that without SONAMEs: that way lies madness.
<mok0> artfwo: if you have a supercollider in /usr/local, it would not come from a package
<artfwo> okay, I will try building/running supercollider without rpath and get rid of those pesky warnings
<persia> Better is to have SONAMEs, and then have the libraries installed both in the library path somewhere, and pick the right one based on the SONAME, rather than guessing based on the path.
<mok0> Yikes it's using scons ... *shudder*
<artfwo> persia: does that mean to create libsclang.so.3.3 instead of libsclang.so?
<directhex> RainCT, replied.
<persia> artfwo, Right.
<artfwo> so
<RainCT> directhex: thanks
<artfwo> persia: can I just move lib*.so into lib*.so.3.3 in debian/tmp after "make install"?
<mok0> artfwo: before linking the application
<mok0> artfwo: you need lib*.so as a symlink to the so.3.3 file
<artfwo> but I could provide a libsclang.so symlink to libsclang.so.3.3
<mok0> artfwo: right
<artfwo> and do it even after the linking
<mok0> artfwo: hm, not sure that will work
<persia> Except that the contents of the file needs to contain the SONAME as well.
<persia> So, you need to declare the SONAME during the build, and have the filename match that declaration.
<persia> And you want the applications to use the real library.  /usr/lib/libfoo.so should be a symlink, but only in the -dev package.
<artfwo> this will certainly require rewriting the entire supercollider build system from scratch
<mok0> artfwo: hurray for scons :-/
<mok0> p.o.s.
<persia> scons makes it especially fun to fix these issues.
<mok0> Problem is, most upstreams don't know squat about installing software in a distribution
<persia> artfwo, In other news, you'd probably benefit from using dh_install for some stuff.
<artfwo> well, okay
<persia> And you don't want anything directly in /usr/share/doc, it belongs in /usr/share/doc/${package}/
<persia> (or use dh_installdocs)
<artfwo> I don't have anything in /usr/share/doc
<persia> artfwo, install -m 644 editors/sced/README $(DEB_DESTDIR)/usr/share/doc/README.gedit
<artfwo> let me see
<artfwo> persia: this is temporary
<persia> OK.  In that case, I'm just being confused.
<artfwo> I install them with dh_installdocs later (see top of debian/rules)
<persia> Right.  I guess I would have done that with debian/${package}.docs, which is why I'm confused.
<persia> Or for that matter, I probably would have just used the original location, rather than copying into a temporary location.
<artfwo> I just decided to avoid overstuffing debian/ directory even more that it is stuffed now
<persia> And I'd also probably not use so many internal CDBS targets, rather using the recommended standard overrides.
<artfwo> persia: I tried that, but didn't find a convenient cdbs class for that
<artfwo> so in the end I've simply written all the targets from scratch
<persia> artfwo, https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id489203
<artfwo> omg, I should have found that earlier
<persia> although I'd probably not even bother with CDBS if I needed that much customisation.  CDBS is black magic, and when you have a CDBS rules file that doesn't fit in one screen (24 lines), confusion is a common result.
<mok0> Hrpm, /me thinks the .symbols file adds more problems than it solves
<Riddell> savvas: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-archive/2009-May/026881.html (incase it gets trappen in gmail spam filter)
<directhex> not to be confused with dh7, which is voodoo magic rather than black magic
<mok0> persia: CDBS is not black magic, it's a macro package ;-)
<savvas> Riddell: hi, just talking to bddebian to review and upload the new fixed version :)
<persia> mok0, See, I use either CDBS or /usr/share/doc/debhelper/exampes/rules.tiny for everything I package, and I strongly disagree.  Both are best managed with grimoires, rather than actual comprehension.
<Riddell> savvas: and upstream too?
<mok0> persia: I agree that a lot of customization makes CDBS incomprehensible
<persia> mok0, And the huge value of .symbols is in actually reminding one to do transitions.  It's rather frustrating when a change slips by and nobody notices until release (yes, this has happened).
<mok0> persia: sometimes you can make do with 2-3 lines
<savvas> Riddell: it's fixed from the debian maintainer upstream, it's already on revu: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnote diff: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/report.py/diff?upid1=5720&upid2=5726
<persia> mok0, Indeed.  My personal limit is 24 lines.  More than that makes it not worth it.  Much like I wouldn't use %: for dh7 unless I can fit it on the screen.
<mok0> persia: re: symbols, they seem to be arch dependent
<savvas> Riddell: could you check it and note if there's anything else that should be included?
<directhex> oh, excellent, copyrightformat
<persia> mok0, Well, depends on the library.  For well coordinated libraries, they oughtn't be so.
<directhex> i like machine-readable copyright
<mok0> persia: Well. What can I say?
<persia> heh :)
<mok0> persia: Looking at FTBFS's because of it
<artfwo> persia: okay, I will try to cleanup the debian/rules jungle, but we have not finished with lintian warnings yet. what would you say about package-contains-empty-directory?
<Riddell> savvas: it should be included by upstream and it should be called COPYING-DOCS, that's what the files say
<persia> Right, but that means something ought be fixed in the library.  If the symbol set changes on a per-architecture basis, then it's unclear whether one can expect to have the package actually work in a cross-architecture fashion (and moreso dependent packages).
<mok0> artfwo: that's fine, because it's intended to be empty
<artfwo> okay!
<savvas> Riddell: ah, got it, gnote upstream - thanks I'll forward the request :)
<artfwo> the last one remain in "supercollider-vim" file
<mok0> artfwo: so having an override is saying: "I know, it's supposed to be that way"
<artfwo> mok0: understood, thanks!
<persia> But you have to understand the error, and understand why it *shouldn't* be fixed.
<artfwo> yes, I am aware of the empty Extensions directory
<persia> It's better to leave some lintian noise because it's not worth fixing some stuff than to override something that might actually need fixing.
<artfwo> supercollider just won't start without it in the filesystem
<mok0> artfwo: of course, another way to get around it is to place a dummy file in the directory saying "this directory is empty" :-)
<artfwo> that seems an even better fix, great idea!
<mok0> artfwo: say what it's supposed to hold (plugins?)
<artfwo> nope, just the extra classes
<mok0> ok
<artfwo> I'd like to ask about supercollider-vim overrides as well
<artfwo> binary-without-manpage and script-with-language-extension
<artfwo> and how to resolve them the best way
<persia> Rather than a dummy file, how about a README file explaining the purpose of the directory, etc.
<mok0> artfwo: these are the not-user-callable scripts?
<artfwo> persia: right, I intented to do just that
<persia> Anything not used by users doesn't belong in /usr/bin
<persia> (it's the directory for *user* *binaries*)
<artfwo> mok0: not user callable, exactly
<mok0> artfwo: from _where_ are these scripts executed, do you know?
<artfwo> from /usr/bin/scvim
<mok0> artfwo: because the right thing to do is to place them in /usr/lib/supercollider
<mok0> artfwo: but then you need to make sure that scvim calls them with the correct path
<artfwo> scripts in /usr/lib?
<artfwo> will not /usr/share suffice?
<mok0> artfwo: yes /usr/lib/progname
<mok0> artfwo: for example /usr/lib/update-manager
<persia> /usr/share could work, but that sort of thing traditionally goes in /usr/lib/${package}, because you don't know that the implementation won't change over time.
<persia> (e.g. python -> C)
<artfwo> well, this will not get rid of script-with-language-extension warning, or will it?
<mok0> artfwo: it should get rid of that warning
<artfwo> ah
<mok0> artfwo: policy is that scripts in /usr/bin must not have an extension (i.e. .py or .sh)
<artfwo> it works on any script in PATH
<artfwo> okay
<mok0> artfwo: what do you mean "it works"?
<artfwo> the lintian warning
<artfwo> is triggered by any script in PATH, that's what I meant
<mok0> artfwo: normally, the user would not have /usr/lib/supercollider in the path
<persia> TO get rid of script-with-language-extension, just rename the file (and change the call).  This is essential to have a clean interface in case you want to change the implementation later
<persia> (yes, you can write a python program ending in .sh, or a shell program ending in .py, but that's just ugly)
<mok0> persia: I agree... .py is for modules
<artfwo> persia: understood, but in my case it's better to move 'em down /usr/lib to get rid of manpage warning as well
<artfwo> and of course, because of /usr/bin intended meaning
<persia> artfwo, My apologies if I wasn't clear: I'm suggesting you move them *and* rename them.
<artfwo> which I have learnt by now :)
<artfwo> thanks for your explanations
<mok0> artfwo, persia, I think it's about hitting a balance of doing the packaging right, and not making too many changes in upstreams naming
<artfwo> right
<persia> mok0, In general, I agree, except for things like script-with-language-extension.  I've been burnt by that a couple times, and it's *hard* to fix.
<mok0> artfwo, persia, I would keep the .rb extensions, but just place the files in /usr/lib/...
<mok0> persia: hm
<persia> mok0, Imagine the case where something else integrates with supercollider, and then supercollider uses python instead of ruby.  One has to grep the entirety of rdepends...
<mok0> persia, artfwo, just make sure the script is called by it's full path
<persia> Doesn't help.
<artfwo> I think I shall simply fix it upstream then
<mok0> artfwo: you are upstream?
<artfwo> yes, I maintain a part of the upstream svn and have commit access to it
 * mok0 puts foot-in-mouth for bad-mouthing upstreams :-)
<artfwo> that's why I thought it would be easier to port the entire build system to WAF or anything, but not scons
<mok0> WAF?
<artfwo> yes, it's an all new scons replacement
<mok0> artfwo: oh I see
<mok0> FWIW, gnu autotools are my personal favourite
<artfwo> but I'd like to hear more weak spots in my package
<mok0> Works on UNIX as well
<artfwo> anything else, you can notice at a glance, guys?
<artfwo> are copyright, control, etc. okay?
<mok0> artfwo: looks ok
<mok0> artfwo: last time I looked at the package (sometime this winter) it didn't build for me, so this is a biiiig improvement
<artfwo> mok0: for every REVU upload I did a local test-build and PPA-build
<persia> artfwo, I'd still like it to work on 64bit, but I know that's probably outside what packaging can manage :)
<artfwo> persia: but they manage to get it working!
<persia> Um, kinda.
<persia> Your package still only builds for i386, powerpc, and lpia :)
<mok0> artfwo: Well. Now it builds for me too... no point in going back and debugging those problems now
<persia> (you might add armel to the list, because it's 32-bit, but that depends on someone having armel with working sound to test)
<artfwo> persia: the server builds for amd64 as well
<persia> I know.  The problem was only ever with the client.
<mok0> artfwo: but does the app work?
<persia> (overloading a 64-bit data block with a 32-bit integer & a pointer)
<artfwo> mok0: yes, you can even install the packages in a 32-bit chroot on an amd64 system and run supercollider with a 64-bit server running in the parent system (with 64-bit JACK and stuff)
<mok0> persia: in a union or something?
<mok0> artfwo: ok sounds good
<mok0> artfwo: you might get in touch with ubuntu-studio, they'd be interested I would think
<mok0> artfwo: seems to be an app right up their alley
<persia> mok0, Yep.
<artfwo> I thought persia is the right contact for ubuntustudio anyway, are you?
<persia> It used to be in ubuntustudio, but it got pulled entirely from Ubuntu for failing to build, and not having supportive upstream.
<persia> I am a member of the ubuntustudio-dev team, but probably one of the least active memebrs.
<mok0> ah, that obviously changed now :-)
<persia> Yes.  Now there is a supportive upstream, and it's *lots* less broken.
<mok0> It'll be good to get it out there so users can stress-test it
<artfwo> the current semi-official way to have supercollider in Ubuntu is the supercollider-team PPA in Launchpad
<persia> Which is good as far as semi-official goes.
<mok0> it is
<mok0> artfwo: did you get some response from users?
<artfwo> yes, lots of
<artfwo> http://artfwo.blogspot.com/2008/04/supercollider-for-hardy.html
<artfwo> http://artfwo.blogspot.com/2008/05/supercollider-for-human-beings.html
<persia> It's probably also worth getting it back into Debian, once it's clean.  debian-multimedia would be a good point of contact for that.
<artfwo> this is in fact, a second question I came to ask today
<artfwo> I have another package reviewed and uploaded
<artfwo> and I would like to send it to Debian as well, once it moves out of the karmic queue
<persia> artfwo, Which package?
<artfwo> persia: scantailor
<mok0> artfwo: that makes sense. Getting into Debian can be quite a length process
<artfwo> ah
<persia> Oh, right.  I remember looking at that one.
<artfwo> it JUST got rejected from the archives!
<persia> Dunno who in Debian would be a good contact for that.
<artfwo> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-archive/2009-May/026882.html
<persia> (and it's *lots* easier to get a package into Debian if there is an interested DD)
<mok0> artfwo: ah that's an easy fix
<artfwo> but it's wrong to reject CC-3.0!
<mok0> artfwo: just fix it and ask the sponsor to upload again
<mok0> artfwo: then write jriddell about it
<persia> artfwo, If it's wrong, argue it.  some cc-3.0 is GPL compatible.  Depends on the type of CC license.
<persia> But some of it isn't, so do triple check.  The FSF website has a nice page about license compatibility.
<mok0> Indeed
<artfwo> I've checked it against http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses
<persia> artfwo, It's not enough that the individual licenses be DFSG free, they also have to be compatible.
<mok0> artfwo: if that's what it says about that arrow icon, your case is clear
<artfwo> may I paste a 3-line excerpt from my debian/copyright about that?
<artfwo> Files: resources/icons/arrow_in.png
<artfwo> Copyright: Mark James, http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/silk/
<artfwo> License: CC-BY-2.5 or CC-BY-3.0
<mok0> artfwo: go ahead
<mok0> see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html
<artfwo> mok0: that page does not mention this license at all
<mok0> at the very bottom.
<mok0> oh
<artfwo> at the silk icons website, the author mentions he double-licensed his work specially for debian
<Riddell> you're mixing up two issues artfwo
<persia> It's funny: lots of people change the license because of the DFSG, but it's against the DFSG for the license change to be specific to Debian.
<Riddell> first the freedom of a licence.  CC-BY-2.5 is not free according to Debian, CC-BY-3.0 is
<artfwo> Riddell: but this specific icon is double-licensed, so it's okay to upload, right?
<Riddell> secondly, the one we're converned with here, is the compatibility of two licences.  because this app compiles all the source code and icons into one single binary they must be licenced such that they can both be copied under the same terms
<artfwo> oh
<mok0> Riddell: license applies to source code, no?
<persia> mok0, license applies to bits.
<persia> In the case where the image is compiled into the executable, it becomes part of the source.
<Riddell> CC-BY-3.0 and GPL are both free but in slightly different ways so they can't be used for different parts of a single binary
<Riddell> KDE doesn't use qt resources files for just this reason
<Riddell> artfwo: but it's only one icon, there must be a substitute which could be found
<artfwo> I shall better contact the upstream about this
<mok0> There ought to be a set of standard icons anyway
<Riddell> yes please
<Riddell> mok0: Oxygen!
<mok0> artfwo: ok, so perhaps you can use the oxygen icons instead
<mok0> artfwo: makes for a more uniform GUI
<artfwo> just one icon and you cannot package software with it!
<artfwo> mok0 Riddell what license is best to pick, if we have to choose from?
<mok0> artfwo: same as the application itself
<artfwo> GPL-3 it is then
<artfwo> or GPL-2+
<Riddell> LGPL 3 or later is used by Oxygen
<mok0> Riddell: can that be compiled into a binary then?
<Riddell> mok0: it can be compiled into an otherwise GPL binary yes
<mok0> oh, like libc I guess
<artfwo> by the way, my other package (supercollider) has CC-BY-SA-3.0-licensed documentation - will it pass the GPL compability test?
<persia> GPL icons aren't any different than GPL C code.  For an extreme example, cat some .xpm file.
<persia> artfwo, Yes, because they aren't being put into a combined file.  That's just amalgamation (documentation and programs).
<Riddell> artfwo: yes that's fine (it would be an issue if the docs get compiled into a binary file with GPL code, but docs tend not to do that)
<artfwo> okay, understood
 * mok0 likes the WTFPL license 
<persia> Note that it's not an issue to compile the docs with a GPL tool, only to mix GPL and non-GPL sources to get a target.
<mok0> http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/
<persia> mok0, It's untested, and probably invalid in some places (I doubt it's valid here, for example)
<mok0> persia: yes, you probably can't take something under GPL and relicense it under WTFPL
<persia> Not unless you hold copyright over it, no.
<mok0> It's not copyleft though
<persia> But to me the issue is more that I'm not sure I'd be granting my users the freedom I desire, because I'm not sure that such a declaration is valid in some jurisdictions.  That's why I like the ISC license, because it was drafted to match the language of the Berne Convention.
<savvas> are the nvidia drivers free for redistribution?
<persia> savvas, Check debian/copyright :)
<artfwo> mok0, Riddell, persia is it okay to include just one license text of two in debian/copyright if an icon is dual-licensed?
<persia> (or /usr/share/doc/${package}/copyright if that's easier to access)
<savvas> hmm.. "Please feel free to redistribute the NVIDIA graphics driver." < I guess this answers my question :)
<persia> artfwo, I prefer to include both, to extend the freedom of choice to users of my packages, but technically you only have to provide the license under which you're offering the software.
<mok0> artfwo: Riddell is the authority on this... I think you need to specify the one of the two licenses you have chosen
<cjwatson> you can offer it under either
<cjwatson> I mean, if you receive it under a dual-licence, you can usually pass on that dual-licensing when redistributing
<persia> Or select a license, although passing the choice on is more polite to users.
<mok0> persia: I prefer GPL type licenses because they maintain the software in the free domain
<mok0> persia: ISC or BSD licenses can get ripped off by someone not wanting to give back
<mok0> s/licenses/licensed software/
<mok0> persia: I ok with people ripping me off if I can rip them back :-)
<persia> mok0, I can understand that.  I suspect it depends on what you write.  Most of what I write is glue (small scripts, etc.), and I'd rather give others the right to use it generally because my purpose has been served merely by it's existence.  If one is driving a more complex project, I can see the argument for a freedom-enforcing license.
<ScottK> I think a lot of it depends on your purpose.
<ScottK> I've been involved in projects that were BSD licensed because we were trying to spread new technology across the internet.  We wanted proprietary developers to 'rip us off' and provide the technology in their systems.
<DktrKranz> persia: aolserver transition, are you interested in managing it? I think there are no just rebuilds this time
<ScottK> My experience with that was that enough of them would rather have upstream maintain their patches that they give them back anyway to make it a net win for available code.
<DktrKranz> if not, I can have a look after alpha1 to not drain buildds too much
<persia> DktrKranz, I have absolutely no interest, but a vague sense of responsibility.
<DktrKranz> ok, I think aolserver itself need love (jaunty -> karmic upgrade path seems bugged)
<persia> Glah.  Does anyone actually use it?
<DktrKranz> don't know, but there have been some binary split and aolserver4 is no longer thereÃ¹
<artfwo> okay. but how do I replace an icon in my package (to a properly licensed one) - repack the source tarball?
<persia> OK.  I'll take a look at it.  Probably can't get to it until Thursday night.
<persia> artfwo, You don't need to do that, just change the build to use the new icon.  If it's only in binary format, uuencode it, and uudecode at build-time (before you link it).
 * DktrKranz either
<artfwo> persia: but this requires backing up the original icon at build time as well. and restoring it on clean
<persia> Only if you don't patch the build system.
<persia> I'd probably apply a patch that changed where the compilation was looking for the icon, rather than trying to use the same name and location.
<artfwo> yes, that is a better solution, thanks!
 * james_w notes that there are 112 bugs on the sponsors' list]
<nxvl> geser: ping
<sharms> Bug #328020
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328020 in ncpfs "cannot mount NetWare (ipx) server" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328020
<sharms> I have a debdiff which resolves this, can anyone take a look at it for me?  It would be an SRU for Jaunty
<sharms> is there a tag I can apply to the bug that will get it reviewed if not?
<leonel-vaio> for bug 375513  should be public since is a security bug ???
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375513 in squirrelmail "Multiple CVEs for Squirrelmail <1.4.17" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375513
<jdstrand> leonel-vaio: if there is a public CVE assignment, the bug should be public
<leonel-vaio> jdstrand: ok
<leonel-vaio> jdstrand: it's open while I  send the diffs ..
<jdstrand> though, the security box was not checked (I just did it)
<persia> sharms, If it's in karmic already (or provably not required in karmic), just follow the SRU process (incuding appropriate team subscriptions).  If not, you'll want to fix karmic first.
<persia> !SRU
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<leonel-vaio> jdstrand: I was looking for that .. thank you
<sharms> persia: it isnt in karmic yet
<sharms> persia: I attached the debdiff to the report, I need someone to look it over and put it in, I am not motu
<sharms> for karmic it would just be s/jaunty/karmic/ on the debdiff, everything else should be identical
<sharms> traditionally, every release we release ncpfs completely broken
<sharms> then I fix it, submit debdiffs, and then eventually someone takes them and gives them to debian
<persia> sharms, I know.  For a while I even used it, and so was happy for your fixes :)
<sharms> haha, I dont even use it thats the funny part.  I just somehow got subscribed to all of them
<sharms> I will setup a karmic pbuilder and create a debdiff for that one if that makes it easier
<persia> It ought.
<Riddell> cody-somerville, jdong: motu-sru opinion needed on bug 206280
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 206280 in xsensors "[hardy] Error opening config file: /etc/sensors.conf" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206280
<Riddell> cody-somerville, jdong: motu-sru opinion needed on bug 358608
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 358608 in claws-mail-extra-plugins "claws-mail-extra-plugins don't match claws-mail version" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/358608
<james_w> 99
<kklimonda> would someone check bug 371720 - I've managed to trace this bug to old version of tix we are shipping with Jaunty. Most recent version doesn't have this problem.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371720 in python2.6 "python-tkinter-tix program has unknown color error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371720
<kklimonda> Also for some reason debian isn't updating their package - probably because watch file isn't pointing in the right direction..
<RainCT> directhex: how many CPUs do you have? XD
<directhex> RainCT, in which box?
<RainCT> directhex: http://behindmotu.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/screenshot.png
<directhex> RainCT, ah. it's an intel core i7 processor - quad core, hyperthreaded
<directhex> so directhex@desire:~$ grep -c i7 /proc/cpuinfo
<directhex> 8
<geser> nxvl: pong
<Kage[Work]> Can anyone here point me in the right direction for setting up eJabberd 2.0.1 on Hardy using PAM?
<Kage[Work]> I can't find any good guides
<sharms> I made a debdiff for Karmic for ncpfs bug #328020 if someone can review that please
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328020 in ncpfs "cannot mount NetWare (ipx) server" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328020
<hyperair> ugh. i'm so close to getting uswsusp working perfectly with usplash, but now i've got one problem: uswsusp hangs if usplash is running, whether usplash support is turned on or off.
 * hyperair curses
<mirak> hi
<mirak> I created a v4l-dvb source package installable with module assistant. do you know how I could submit it to official repositories ?
<mirak> ko it's in the topic
<marnold> mirak, see revu.ubuntuwire.com
<mirak> marnold: I am forced to use karmic ?
<marnold> if its not an SRU bugfix yes
<mirak> marnold: can I just rely on chroot and pbuilder ?
<mirak> I don't want to run karmic as main os
<marnold> oh thats a horse of a different color
<marnold> yes
<marnold> you can use pbuilder
<mirak> just a last stupid question, I don't see how to upload on revu ^^
<marnold> login with your openid from LP
<marnold> and you should get added to the keyring automagiclly iirc
<mirak> marnold: I did that of course,
<mirak> I don't see any upload button
<mirak> is that with dput maybe
<marnold> it is
<mirak> do you know a nice way to have pbuilder for differents distributions ?
<marnold> just dput revu $yourpackage_source.changes
<marnold> pbuilder-dist from ubuntu-dev-tools
<mirak> thanks
<marnold> if someone could review my patch for #375619 i would appreciate it
<kklimonda> bug 375619
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375619 in ircd-hybrid "ircd-hybrid conflicts with inspircd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375619
<kklimonda> marnold: it would probably be better to work with debian maintainer on this: changes made in ubuntu1 and ubuntu2 were reported in debian bts as debian bug 519136 and debian bug 511611
<ubottu> Debian bug 519136 in ircd-hybrid "ircd-hybrid: should create /var/run/ircd at boot time" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/519136
<ubottu> Debian bug 511611 in ircd-hybrid "ircd-hybrid: Conflicts with the ircd virtual package" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/511611
<marnold> as i reported one of them i know this
<kklimonda> marnold: and maintainer still isn't responding?
<marnold> the maintainer hasn't responded in ~2 months
<marnold> so i figured  it was time for a Ubuntu upload
<james_w> fair enough
<kklimonda> yeah, probably
<marnold> s/a/an
<kklimonda> marnold: have you tried mailing maintainer? I've had more luck with mailing them directly than with filling bugs :/
<james_w> ver
<james_w> p   ircd-ircu                                                             - Undernet IRC Server daemon
<james_w> p   ircd-ratbox                                                           - advanced, stable and fast ircd
<james_w> p   oftc-hybrid                                                           - Hybrid 7 IRC daemon - OFTC branch
<james_w> marnold: any idea whether it installs alongside them?
<james_w> ah
 * james_w slaps himself
<marnold> james_w, last i knew no but
 * marnold checks
<james_w> any idea whether it installs alongside ircd-ratbox?
<mirak> marnold: thanks for you help, the package is uploading
<james_w> that would be the only other change
<mirak> woops I forgot to build it on karmic ^^
<marnold> james_w, looks like at some point in the recent past
<mirak> marnold: pbuilder dist says karmic is unkown distribution, is that normal ?
<marnold> they renamed their binary from /usr/sbin/ircd to /usr/sbin/ircd-hybrid
<marnold> so it should co-exist with 2.8 derived ircds
<ScottK> mirak: Install the debchroot in jaunty-backports
<james_w> marnold: sorry, which package did that?
<marnold> ircd-hybrid
<marnold> so i'll remove the conflict and if it breaks stuff well karmic is pre-alpha
<marnold> i see no collisions
<james_w> nope, I just checked as well
<ScottK> Don't forget to rename man pages too
<kmdm> Don't suppose anyone has the MOTU wiki page to hand that has the links into launchpad bug searches? I keep coming across it and promptly forgetting it... e.g. one of the searches filters for bitesize universe bugs, etc...
<ivoks> is there a list of ftbs packages?
<mirak> W: http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/karmic/main/binary-amd64/Packages.bz2
<mirak> was corrupt
<mirak> wierd ?
<kklimonda> so, who is testing ubuntu one and has something interesting to tell about it? ;)
<ivoks> kklimonda: it works :)
<kklimonda> ivoks: i surely hope that it does :)
<loic-m> siretart: ping
<mirak> scottK oh you meant debootstrap
<ScottK> It's based on spam marketing principles?  <-- ubuntuone
<ScottK> mirak: Yes.  Sorry.  I always get them backwards.
<ivoks> ScottK: spam marketing?
<ScottK> ivoks: I've never signed up for commercial solicitations from Canonical for their services.
<kklimonda> i think it's called "Whispered Advertising" ;)
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, i'll reply you later... I gtg take care :)
<ScottK> ivoks: It was unsolicited, it was commercial, and it was email.
<ScottK> That's spam.
<directhex> enlarge your ubuntu by 2 gigabytes!
<ScottK> Exactly.
<james_w> marnold: uploaded thanks. I took the liberty of expanding the changelog and adding a bug reference, you'll see it when it closes the bug.
<james_w> it's an odd way to organise a set of packages
<ivoks> right, it might not be the best approach to anounce it
<james_w> but then it's an odd set of packages :-)
<marnold> before i even finished my snack
<marnold> thanks
<james_w> np
<ivoks> anyway, 10PM
<ivoks> take care everybody
<james_w> it would have been got to eventually on the sponsors list, you just got lucky ;-)
<kklimonda> does somebody know why was vmmouse_detect moved from xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse to mdetect?
<directhex> james_w, i got a freebiw from cjwatson earlier. i wonder if he's getting "you owe me beer" credits lined up for UDS :p
<directhex> freebie
<james_w> heh
<kklimonda> I couldn't contact the person who did it and it's the only delta from new xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse package that is in debian..
<james_w> I tend to owe him many beers without any special effort on his part
<james_w> kklimonda: I don't see any diff
<maxb> ivoks: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs
<james_w> oops
<james_w> -vmmouse, not -mouse
<ivoks> maxb: great, thanks
<maxb> (Why do some people say FTBFS and others FTBS? The second seems oddly wrong to me)
<ivoks> :)
 * ScottK doesn't recall people saying FTBS.
<maxb> I've seen it a fair bit in changelog entries
<kklimonda> maxb: probably just a typo..
<maxb> A bit too often for that.
<maxb> So, does anyone know how X keymaps are supposed to work in the world of udev-extras?
 * maxb has had to roll back the last hal update for now
<james_w> kklimonda: I don't see where the change is, do you have a pointer?
<kklimonda> james_w: it was made here:
<kklimonda> xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse (1:12.5.1-4ubuntu5) jaunty; urgency=low
<kklimonda>   * Add mdetect to dependencies (LP: #362027)
<kklimonda>  -- John Dong <jdong@ubuntu.com>  Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:28:04 -0400
<james_w> bug 362027 doesn't give you enough information?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 362027 in xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse "Missing dependency on mdetect" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/362027
<siretart> loic-m: pong
<loic-m> siretart: do you know who takes care of x264, mencoder (mplayer) and xvid in Debian?
<siretart> loic-m: depends on what you mean with 'taking care'
<loic-m> I only see mplayer in Debian, no xvid, no x264
<siretart> x264 is packaged here: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-multimedia/unstable/x264/#_unstable_x264_
<kklimonda> james_w: this bug is only about adding mdetect to Dependencies but there is nothing about why was vmmouse_detect moved from xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse in the first place
<james_w> kklimonda: does the hal-probe-vmmouse in Debian call vmmouse_detect? Which package is that program in?
<siretart> mencoder should be built from the mplayer package
<loic-m> I know you're a regular uploader for mplayer, but don't know if it's as part of a team or something
<james_w> kklimonda: but I don't see it being moved in the diff from Debian?
<siretart> unsure about xvid
<kklimonda> james_w: hmm.. maybe it was moved back in later release?
<kklimonda> (in debian package)
<siretart> loic-m: as part of the pkg-multimedia team, yes. see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia/ for more information
<siretart> loic-m: espc. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia/Join
<siretart> I maintain the ubuntu ffmpeg packaging branchen under that umbrella as well. git makes it very easy to maintain branches, you know
<siretart> interested to contribute there?
<bddebian> siretart: Hey do you happen to know if any of you multimedia types use Bristol?
<loic-m> yes and no. I'd have to learn svn, and if I managed to do it then yes
<siretart> loic-m: we are switching from svn to git
<bddebian> Nooo
<siretart> bddebian: no idea what bristol is
<bddebian> siretart: You're no help! :)
<siretart> brb, phone
<kklimonda> james_w: hmm.. it might have been our own change made because debian haven't provided vmmouse_detect at the time..
<loic-m> siretart: oh noes
<kklimonda> james_w: yeah - looks like it.. i wonder why it was added to mdetect instead to xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse..
<loic-m> siretart: as for contributing, I'd like to tackle bug #371786
<loic-m> siretart: updating the man page for both x264 and mencoder
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371786 in x264 "bime and brdo options in x264 dropped (now set with subme), x264 and mencoder man pages need to be updated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371786
<loic-m> siretart: which is quite simple, then I can either attach a diff to the bug and you (or another Debian contributor) can put it in x264 and mencoder
<james_w> kklimonda: because it is a package for detecting mice? :-)
<loic-m> siretart: so there's no 2 different man pages, and we don't duplicate the efforts
<james_w> kklimonda: if the input package ships it now then you can sync, but you will have to patch mdetect as well obviously
<loic-m> siretart: for xvid, I can't understand why it's not in Debian.
<kklimonda> james_w: well.. It would make more sense to keep all vmmouse related stuff in one package. Now we can't sync with debian, we have to add Conflicts/Replaces to handle upgrade?
<kklimonda> Or maybe not? Damn, I have to read more about this particular part of .deb packages..
<siretart> ... still on the phone...
<james_w> kklimonda: ah, that's true
<kklimonda> james_w: btw - for how long do we have to keep changes that are made to make an upgrade possible? For example transmission has Replaces/Conflict with some old package that provided web ui..
<james_w> kklimonda: usually until after the release that anyone who may have the problem packages has to go through, if that makes sense
<james_w> so if mdetect stuff was just in Jaunty, then we could drop it after Karmic
<james_w> however, if it was in Hardy, then we would have to keep in until after the next LTS
<james_w> because you can go LTS->LTS
<kklimonda> mhm
<james_w> it's really useful if you state when something like this can be dropped in the changelog
<james_w> it saves everyone having to look it up :-)
<kklimonda> mdetect ships vmmouse_detect since gutsy so we'll keep it for a while :)
<siretart> loic-m: ok, back
<siretart> loic-m: for the x264 package, AFAIUI the x264 package in ubuntu is based on marillat, while the debian package is packaged by fabian greffrath
<siretart> and it is still in svn and needs to be converted to git
<siretart> if that is done, I have no problem with updating it and making it ready for ubuntu to replace the marillat package
<kklimonda> james_w: actually I've created .deb files to test upgrade and it worked without any Conflicts/Replaces lines..
<kklimonda> james_w: it looks like mdetect was upgraded before xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse
<james_w> kklimonda: I'm not sure if that's something you can rely on though
<kklimonda> exactly - that's probably because of the order I've passed .debs to dpkg..
<loic-m> siretart: x264 in Debian seem completely out of date http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-multimedia/unstable/x264/debian/changelog
<jdong> kklimonda: vmmouse_detect had been in mdetect in jaunty and below for reasons beyond my control
<ScottK> kklimonda: You can't rely on that.
<siretart> loic-m: as for xvid, I don't know why nobody has bothered yet to prepare it for debian.
<jdong> kklimonda: I put the dependency in on mdetect because for Jaunty, the vmware mouse will not work at all unless vmmouse_detect was available
<siretart> loic-m: yes. the reason for that is this:
<jdong> kklimonda: for karmic we do need appropriate conflict/replace on mdetect and such.
<siretart> loic-m: fabian packaged that for debian-unofficial.org
<kklimonda> jdong: I know - I was just wondering why vmmouse_detect was placed in mdetect and not in xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse
<jdong> kklimonda: lol that you can't blame me for ;-)
<kklimonda> jdong: would you mind checking bug 368855 ? I need an ACK from sru ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368855 in cherrypy3 "formatwarning() definition from cherrypy3 incompatible with Python 2.6" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368855
<kklimonda> jdong: and I don't :)
<jdong> it seems to be fixed and moot now though
<jdong> and yeah lemme look
<siretart> loic-m: however, at some point that project didn't "go on" and stalled. we are now waiting for the relaunch
<jdong> yay launchpad fail.
<loic-m> siretart: what prevents Marilat pkg to be imported instead?
<loic-m> siretart: and for xvid, could pkg-multimedia use Ubuntu package?
<siretart> loic-m: him being a *beeep*?
<siretart> loic-m: seriously, I tried several times to work with him. and failed several times in spectacular ways. and if you look at his packages, well, better don't
 * ScottK has yet to review one that didn't have debian/copyright issues.
<dtchen> jdong: got time to approve an sru request? (bug 366620)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 366620 in muine "Play Album and Play Song didn't work anymore" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/366620
<loic-m> siretart: why use them in ubuntu though.
<siretart> ScottK: exactly. he simply doesn't care about anything
<siretart> loic-m: because someone decided it was a good idea? - I'd disagree here
<loic-m> ScottK: that's something I could take care of if needed (I've done xvid recently)
<jdong> kklimonda: acked yours, dtchen, looking.
<siretart> loic-m: I therefore propose to maintain them properly in pkg-multimedia for both debian and ubuntu
<loic-m> siretart: you mean you'd maintain them?
<siretart> it's just that pkg-multimedia is really understaffed. I'm really busy with ffmpeg and mplayer, so additional help would be more than welcome
<loic-m> siretart: what if I try to get xvid into pkg-multi as training, since I've worked on it for Ubuntu for the past few month?
<jdong> dtchen: acked
<siretart> loic-m: that would be excellent :-) - have a look at git-buildpackage and git-import-dsc for importing existing packages
<dtchen> jdong: thanks
<loic-m> siretart: and for x264/mplayer man page updates I'd send the man page to you in the mean time (since it'll probably take me a while to get the hang of x264)
<siretart> ah right, what was the issue with the mplayer man page?
<siretart> I thought upstream is managing them rather well, and translate them in various languages
<loic-m> siretart: see bug #371786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371786 in x264 "bime and brdo options in x264 dropped (now set with subme), x264 and mencoder man pages need to be updated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371786
<loic-m> siretart: thanks for the info. Probably they already updated it, but the man page in Ubuntu doesn't match the code for x264 options (changed in october 2008 AFAIR)
<siretart> loic-m: mplayer in ubuntu is at rc2, read: stone-age. Have you checked if it has already been fixed in the rc3 branch? (the debian package is based on that branch currently)
<loic-m> siretart: I'll have a look upstream for the man pages, and concentrate on xvid for Debian
<siretart> loic-m: if the upstream manpages are still out of date, let's commit that upstream and backport it to the rc3 branch
<soren> 7win 380
<soren> Whoops
<soren> 7win 380
<soren> Darn it!
<Laney> you have 380 windows?!
<siretart> 200 of them are queries, I bet
<soren> Laney: I do.
<ajmitch> soren: you worry me. A lot
<soren> siretart: Thereabouts, yes.
 * ajmitch has managed to restrict it to about 25 windows lately
<soren> ajmitch: I was up to 450 until my IRC vm crashed, and it had been a while since i /layout save'd.
 * maxb boggles
<siretart> loic-m: anything else you want to discuss with me?
<maxb> How do you manage all those? Or so you simply not, and always address them by name?
<loic-m> siretart: I've been checking the man page for mplayer on debian git, and it's indeed up-to-date
<kklimonda> what will be the right way of creating merge request for xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse? Do I make separate bug reports - one for mdetect upgrade and another for xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse merge?
<loic-m> siretart: I think I understand how it works on Debian better, and should be ok for now. Thanks a lot, I'll probably ping you in a few days/weeks if I've got trouble getting xvid in pkg-multi
<loic-m> siretart: and thanks for maintaining mencoder ;) I use it almost daily (nightly actually)
<siretart> loic-m: the debian package currently does not build mencoder and it is currently not being accepted in debian
<siretart> loic-m: I intend to extend the package anyway to build mencoder in a seperate branch. that will be the basis for the ubuntu branch
<siretart> loic-m: but don't expect results from be before in about 2 weeks. if someone else is faster, so be it
<loic-m> siretart: right, I rememember those emails now
<mirak> I have a version like that 0.99.5+cvs20070914-2.1~lenny2ubuntu2 , I want to rebuilt it and upload to ppa, how do I adapt the version number ?
<ScottK> mirak: I'd add ~release1~ppa1 on the end, e.g ~jaunty1~ppa1
<mirak> scottK: in replacement of what ?
<mirak> scottK you mean in plus ?
<maxb> NB which way you put the ~jaunty1 and ~ppa1 bits depends on your intended maintenance methodology
<ScottK> In addition
<ScottK> yes
<ScottK> maxb: I disagree.
<ScottK> The other way can conflict with archive uploads and just flat out isn't a good idea.
 * ScottK is off for a while, so no time to argue
<maxb> If you have a single source which you maintain, and then backport across multiple releases, ~ppaN~releaseX is better
<maxb> On the other hand, if your uploads for each release have little to do with each other, ~releaseX~ppaN is better
<maxb> meh
<mirak> we fall again on the same problem
<mirak> the binary compatibility is handled very bad
<maxb> That's a scary version number. What is it?
<mirak> xine-ui
<mirak> because here I need to rebuild xine-ui to have a right binary compatibility to a libxine1 I rebuild with vdpau support
<maxb> The fact that it's still the same cvs snapshot that was taken a year and a half ago worries me :-)
<mirak> here, I don't want any xine-ui update from ubuntu, because it will break the binary compatibility I need with my libxine1 version
<maxb> mirak: Have you already decided what your libxine1 version number will be?
<maxb> Personally I would use 0.99.5+cvs20070914-2.1~lenny2ubuntu1+vdpau1
<maxb> Or possibly +mirak
<maxb> +mirak1 rather
<mirak> xine-lib_1.1.16.3.-0+ppa3
<mirak> that's my version
<maxb> erm, really?
<mirak> yes
<maxb> with a . at the end of the upstream version?
<mirak> yes, because I messed up the version earlier with two minus
<maxb> Hmm.
<mirak> don't bother about the dot
<maxb> Are you basing the package on 1.1.16.3-0ubuntu1 ?
<mirak> no
<maxb> Do you need to build this for multiple Ubuntu series?
<RoAkSoAx> heya guys... every time we have to modify anything in a .c file or .h file while merging, we should create a patch right?? or we have just to do the modification directly to the file?
<mirak> maxb: I did a backport for intrepid
<kklimonda> RoAkSoAx: create a patch
<RoAkSoAx> kklimonda, so for example... in a previous ubuntu version, they seem to have modified the file by hand, so I would need to remove that modification and then create a patch that modifies what it is supposed to right?
<maxb> As you seem to have already adopted a +ppaX convention, I would call the xine-ui build 0.99.5+cvs20070914-2.1~lenny2ubuntu1+ppa1 in Jaunty
<maxb> And then I would append an additional ~intrepid1 to that when backporting to intrepid
<kklimonda> RoAkSoAx: Yes - there shouldn't be any changes made directly to files.
<RoAkSoAx> kklimonda, k thanks :)
<mirak> maxb: I use dch --bpo to backport
<maxb> mirak: You should NOT do that
<mirak> lol
<mirak> otherwise earth will colapse
<mirak> on itself
<maxb> It mislabels your version numbers as having something to do with backports.org, which is simply a lie
<maxb> You should use dch -b -l ~intrepid
 * a|wen think kklimonda should look at the mplayer source regarding that :/
<mirak> thanks for the info, but I don't think it matters much
<maxb> Why ask for advice if you don't care about taking it?
<mirak> I could call my backage like ~barackobama that would work
<mirak> maxb: it's just that it's a really private ppa
<mirak> I took your advice
<mirak> of course, I will remember it
<mirak> and the command
<kklimonda> a|wen: well, many maintainers don't care about it unfortunately :/
<mirak> it would be nice to have tools adapted to ubuntu conventions
<a|wen> kklimonda: right ... and when you find a package from debian inline-patched to hell, it seems kind of too late
<kklimonda> a|wen: xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse is awesome when it comes to patches - package depends on quilt but it uses custom quilt mk file and patches sources inline :/
<mirak> don't you think there is a flaw on the binary depencies handling in dpkg apt and stuff ?
<maxb> mirak: huh?
<mirak> because in fact the depencies are mostly about source depencies right ?
<kklimonda> I'm not even going to check mplayer - I've heard a lot about quality of mplayer code so I can only assume that package maintainer is just following their steps ;)
<a|wen> that's what you call one step forward; and two steps back
<a|wen> kklimonda: don't ... and stay away from ffmpeg source as well
<kklimonda> is there some automated way of checking if package upgrades cleanly? maybe piuparts can do it?
<dtchen> yes, use piuparts as a starting point.
<mirak> maxb: like I said, I need to rebuild xine-ui gxine so they will be binary compatible to libxine1 I recompiled. otherwise some things don't work. however nothing can prevent ubuntu to upgrade xine-ui again and break the depency I recreated.
<maxb> I don't see how binary and source are relevant to that, your problem is that a sequence of version numbers doesn't express flavours
<maxb> or variants or whatever you'd like to call them
<a|wen> gah, dapper is a long time back ... really not fun to patch anything there with new patches
<mirak> maxb: sure, so how I can I bound my set of packages toogheter ?
<mirak> maxb: maybe there is a way to make stronger depencies ?
<maxb> I think I would add a suffix to every binary and source package name, and conflicts against the unsuffixed names
<mirak> maxb: that would be hell to maintain,
<mirak> maxb: what about packages that depend of these ?
<mirak> but don't need a tight binary compatibility ?
<mirak> it will conflict. what I want is that my packages just substitute
<maxb> Hmm. Maybe if your libxine1 did "Provides: libxine1-mirak" and all your other packages did "Depends: libxine1-mirak"
<maxb> At least that would ensure that your rebuilt apps packages had your rebuilt library available
<mirak> maxb: ok but in fact shouldn't there be some flag that indicates that a package have a strong binary depencies to another one, and need to be rebuilt if the other changes a bit ?
<mirak> I mean generally
<maxb> What, you mean depending on one specific version only?
<mirak> because dpkg tells nothing about that, you can't guess it
<maxb> Sure, you can do that, but it's almost never the trurth
<maxb> *truth
<mirak> maxb: ok but here for exemple, gxine fails badder than xine on my rebuild libxine
<mirak> shouldn't there be some some field that tells that if the lib is somewhat modified, then the package using that lib should also be rebuilt ?
<mirak> I mean the gxine depency seem to be laxist about the libxine version it can handle. I guess it's just something like greater than version x
<maxb> If you change the ABI of a library, you're supposed to change its packagename
<maxb> change in fundamentally incompatible ways, that is
<mirak> what do you mean by changing the name ?
<mirak> like what
<mirak> maxb: ?
<maxb> In your case, which is a change of variant/flavour rather than of version, adding a suffix, like I said
<maxb> Call the package libxine1mirak
<RoAkSoAx> which is the recommended patch system?
<loic-m> RoAkSoAx: not sure, but I found quilt easy to use
<binarymutant> RoAkSoAx, I like dpatch but a lot of people are moving to quilt
<RoAkSoAx> and if i add quilt, do I need to make changes to debian/rules so that it can apply the patches?
<loic-m> RoAkSoAx: I've seen quilt used on tuxtype, and the line is in config.status:
<loic-m> 	QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches quilt push -a || test $$? = 2
<loic-m> then in clean:
<loic-m> 	QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches quilt pop -a -R || test $$? = 2
<loic-m> (don't ask me to explain though)
<mirak> maxb: I understand that with how dpkg is actually, it's the best option, however don't if just think about it generally, don't you think something is missing in dpkg to ensure binary compatibility ? because here if I don't need to change any line of code on xine-ui and touch anything exept rebuilding it. so this means that my libxinemirak package is still source compatibile to libxine, so I don't see any reason why the source depency
<mirak>  should change. That's why I feel something is missing in the design of dpkg.  It's the second time I have this kind of questioning. it happened with vdr and it's plugins also.
<loic-m> config.status: & clean: are in debian/rules of course
<kklimonda> RoAkSoAx: you can also add "include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk" at the top of debian/rules and it should take care of patching/reverting automatically
<RoAkSoAx> kklimonda, ok awesome thanks guys :)
<loic-m> kklimonda: that's good to know
<maxb> What kklimonda says if the package already uses cdbs. Otherwise, list the contents of the quilt package itself - it ships a simple make fragment for including in non-cdbs packages
<RoAkSoAx> kklimonda, isn't it: include /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make ?
<maxb> that's the one
<maxb> mirak: The (build-)dependency MUST change to express the desire to build against a different flavour of a library
<maxb> Within a distribution, that is. PPAs being a sort of divided addon archive blur that concept a bit
<maxb> But of course the tools are designed for distributions first and foremost
<mirak> so let's admit we are on karmic. I decide to update libxine1 with a vdpau patch. why would I change the package name or the flavor ? I mean only the version should change, it's just an evolution of the upstream version. So how can I know I need to rebuild this or that application for the binary to still be compatible if nowhere something complains ?
<mirak> I maybe miss the concept of flavor, I am new to that
<maxb> If upstream change the ABI in such a way that it can no longer be used by apps compiled against the old ABI, then it becomes libxine2
<mirak> ok
<mirak> that's why vdpau modifications are still on the libxine2 branch only
<mirak> like vdr protocol
<mirak> mirak: I understand better now
<mirak> the flavor thing
<maxb> The flavour thing doesn't really apply here
<maxb> I thought you wanted to make an *unofficial* different patched ABI
<jmehdi> needs review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=webstrict
<maxb> Well, I suppose it sort of does apply, since if the libxine2 ABI isn't final, it would be somewhat erroneous to name your library libxine2
<mirak> maxb: is there a way to know all packages who depends of another one ?
<maxb> Depends how widely you define the scope of "all"
<maxb> But try "apt-cache rdepends packagename" for starters
<mirak> maxb: ok but here there still no indication that the depency is either source or binary
<mirak> right ?
<maxb> I do not understand what you mean by "source or binary"
<maxb> ALL binary package dependencies are on other binary packages.
<mirak> yes, but if install ubuntu-desktop, it won't matter for ubuntu desktop that I change the abi of gnome
<mirak> in fact I guess my point is that if there is a flavor depency relative to an abi, then there should be a field like Abi-depency:
<mirak> instead of having the flavor included in the name of the package
<mirak> I mean here if there is a package ahave a depency on xinelib "flavor 2", and that this depency is only happening at BUILD time, and not at source level, then this depency should be dynamically added to the  control file at build time.
<maxb> hah! It *is*
<mirak> and be only present in the binary package
<maxb> via the shlibs mechanism
<mirak> maxb: ok
<mirak> lol
<mirak> I guess I will finally figure this out
<maxb> Your depending package Build-Depends: libxine-dev
<maxb> dpkg assesses the actual library dependencies of the compiled code, and substitutes the libxinewhatever into ${shlibs:Depends}
<maxb> And it would be out of place for ubuntu-desktop to depend on libraries, mostly
<maxb> Since it's more concerned with features
<mirak> maxb: yet there is a problem i think
<mirak> because here let's admit my libxine1 is now libxine1mirak
<mirak> if I rebuild xine-ui
<mirak> it should automatically shlib depend on libxine1mirak right ?
<maxb> Should work, yes
<mirak> ok
<mirak> maxb: however how can xine-ui now the libxine it looks for is libxine1mirak ?
<mirak> know
<mirak> that's what I don't get here
<mirak> and why I told I would have seen the flavor in a special field, like abi-depency field. so it would depend on the available libxine flavor 1mirak that was installed.
<mirak> otherwise I am forced to modify the debian directory of xine-ui in plus of the changelog
<maxb> In most cases packages would depend on libraries via an automatic substitution, however I see xine doesn't use this
<maxb> I think your goal to not modify the package source is frankly unrealistic
<mirak> anyway again it comes to some other idea I add, wich is that I beleive the binary should have a version number in plus of the source package, because here we can have different binaries from the same source, depending of the abi it was built against.
<maxb> It would add a great deal of complexity to the dependency resolution process and simply isn't necessary
<mirak> maxb: I think the solution would be that the binary package have a specific version indicator. like   libxine1-0debian0.dsc for the source and libxine1-0debian0_binary1.deb for the binary package
<mirak> the version number of the binary would determinated by the builder, either manually, or according to a search on the previous binary version
#ubuntu-motu 2009-05-13
<maxb> It's an obscure and complex corner case that is handled perfectly adequately in the package name in ubuntu
<mirak> maxb: it's just I don't think it's logical to have to change the source version, if the source just doesn't change
<mirak> maxb: I am maybe a perfectionist but I just think there should be two layers of depency.
<mirak> it's like dpkg does just half of the job
<maxb> I remain unconvinced, sorry.
<mirak> why gxine_0.5.903-4ubuntu1~ppa1~jaunty1 is below gxine_0.5.903-4ubuntu1 ? I did something wrong here
<maxb> That's the special significance of ~
<directhex> that's the purpose of ~
<directhex> ~ is a generic "less than" marker
<directhex> 1.0~1~1 < 1.0~1 < 1.0
<mirak> ok
<directhex> + is the reverse
<mirak> but why xine-ui_0.99.5+cvs20070914-2.1~lenny2ubuntu2~ppa1~jaunty1 upgraded over xine-ui_0.99.5+cvs20070914-2.1~lenny2ubuntu2 ?
<mirak> maxb: my bad
<mirak> I forgot the number mistake
<ajmitch> those version numbers hurt my eyes
<directhex> ajmitch, agreed. "cvs"? :o
<jtechidna> a backport of a ppa version of an ubuntu version of a backport from lenny? lulz
<directhex> actually, it's impressive. a jaunty build of a ppa build of an ubuntu build of a lenny backport of a NMU of a CVS snapshot
<maxb> "cvs from a year and a half ago" :O
<directhex> with whipped cream and a cherry on top
<directhex> JontheEchidna, don't miss the NMU, that's added lulziness
<ajmitch> directhex: it's missing an x.y.xisreallya.b.c
<JontheEchidna> hehe
<directhex> ajmitch, don't make me wave the behemoth at you
<directhex> 10.0.1.218+10.0.0.525ubuntu1~hardy1+really9.0.124.0ubuntu2
<ajmitch> where's the epoch?!
<directhex> 3:3.3.8really3.3.7-0ubuntu11.1
<directhex> ajmitch, howzat?
<ajmitch> starting to get there
<ScottK> ajmitch: We really don't want to do an epoch if Debian doesn't.
<ScottK> I'm pretty sure I recognize directhex's example as my work.
<ajmitch> ScottK: I know, we were joking
<ScottK> OK.
<qiyong> should I create pv on a whole disk device or on a  partiton ?
<bucket529> Question: The mail-notification package in Debian has SSL disabled ( http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=286672 ) due to a Debian Legal opinion on OpenSSL. The developer disagreed, claiming that the package has no such code in it, but disabled SSL anyway to get accepted by Debian. Is it worthwhile to file a needs-packaging bug in Ubuntu to get an SSL-enabled version into the repos? Or is there a better wa
<ubottu> Debian bug 286672 in mail-notification "mail-notification: Can't use SSL/TLS" [Normal,Open]
<ScottK> bucket529: Without looking, I'd say that there is no difference between our policy on such things and Debian's.
<bucket529> ScottK: Sensible. The developer (not me) claims the refusal to accept an SSL-enabled version was an error on Debain's part. Whether it is or not (I'm not a lawyer), who would make that call in Ubuntu?
<ScottK> bucket529: Now I've read the bug.  If it links against openssl and is GPL, but doesn't have an openssl exception, it's not distributable.
<ScottK> We have the same policy as Debian on this.
<bucket529> ScottK: So the key is 'links against', not 'includes code' ?
<ScottK> In Ubuntu it would be decided by an archive administrator (like ftp-master in Debian).
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Upstream's statement that it includes no code from openssl is not the real issue.
<bucket529> ScottK: Thanks for the clarification.
<ScottK> There is some discussion about if openssl qualifies as a system library with a standard interface, but generally in Debian/Ubuntu that's not accepted.
<bucket529> ScottK: Ah.
<lifeless> bucket529: gnutls
<VK7HSE> I've had a go at merging  libhtml-parser-perl it's uploaded to me PPA on LP https://edge.launchpad.net/~vk7hse/+archive/ppa is there a mentor free to have a look and advise me of any mistakes?
<ScottK> lifeless: That's mentioned in the Debian bug as an option, but some porting is required.
<bucket529> lifeless: Upstream will do what upstream will do. My advice to the fellow who asked me will be: 'Nudge upstream to seek the exception'.
<lifeless> bucket529: indeed.
<calc> you can only ad a openssl exception if everyone that wrote code for it agrees and it doesn't link to anything gpl either
<calc> s/ad/add
<bucket529> calc: Thanks.
<ajmitch> oh goody, a new tool for me to package up for karmic
 * ajmitch looks for an ITP bug
<pangloss> so question that I am sure has been answered before: if I am packaging something that requires some libraries, and I am nearly positive that those libraries will never be used by any other application, should I just package the application witht he libraries integrated, or should I packaged the libraries individually and then add them as depends in the application?
<ScottK> pangloss: Individually.  It's actually probably easier and it's better in the long run in case you're wrong.
<pangloss> ScottK, Thanks
<hansfbaier> I am the developer of libprolooks and jackpanel, I packaged them (as native packages), built them in my ppa for karmic and uploaded them to revu.
<hansfbaier> Should I get a response after subscribing ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug?
<ScottK> Yes, although native packages probably aren't right.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: Since I am the developer of the software, should I then keep the debianization in a separate git repo?
<ScottK> hansfbaier: yes.
<ScottK> You don't want to have to make a new release everytime you change the packaging.
<ScottK> That or just exclude it when you roll your upstream tarball.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: I include it in my upstream tarball
<ScottK> Right, that's what makes it a native package.
<ScottK> Don't do that.
<ScottK> It will make your life easier in the long run (I package stuff I'm upstream for and this is what I've found)
<persia> hansfbaier, A couple examples where it is easier:
<hansfbaier> ScottK: So since I use git, probably git-buildpackage would be best, wouldn't it.
<persia> 1) the case where there is some silly transition in a distro that doesn't affect the code
 * ScottK and git aren't on good terms.
<persia> 2) the case where a distro is under some freeze, and one wants to backport a patch
<hansfbaier> ScottK: What do you use, then?
<ScottK> hansfbaier: mostly svn.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: Where should the repo be located, is there any preference?
<ScottK> I'm also very good with diff and patch.
<ScottK> I'm old and probably have a workflow that isn't at all typical.
<ScottK> But that doesn't change the basic principle.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: The packaging repo, that is.
<ScottK> It's really up to you.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: Ah thanks.
<ScottK> In my svn layout I have it exactly where it unpacks to.  I just exclude it when I roll the tarball.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: So in your svn you have the debian/ dir, but you exclude it in the upstream tarball?
<ScottK> yes.
<ScottK> Then I let the packaging continue to evolve in trunk even though I include a snapshot of the packaging in the tag.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: What are native packages for, exacly, something that is innate to the distro?
<ScottK> Yes, exactly.
<hansfbaier> s/exacly/exactly/
<hansfbaier> ScottK: I see.
<ScottK> Some people do use them as you were considering, but it's really suboptimal.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: I have 4 branches in my repo, one for karmic, one for hardy, one for jaunty and one master
<hansfbaier> ScottK: Which differ in packaging
<ScottK> Is the upstream source the same for all of them?
<hansfbaier> ScottK: Not really, since karmic needs some workarounds for the bugs in Vala 0.7.2
<ScottK> You can still manage that and not have a native package.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: And hardy comes with vala 0.5.7 and needs some backporting therefore.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: That is where git-buildpackage would come in.
<ScottK> I know in pkg-clamav on alioth (Debian) they have upstream clamav and packaging all in the same git repo.
<ScottK> Probably.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: generating debian-diffs, right?
<hansfbaier> ScottK: So I probably have to read more on git-buildpackage.
<ScottK> Since they are uploading directly and not looking for sponsorship they are interested in tools to produce a package ready for upload.
<ScottK> However, once you have that, a debdiff is trivial to get to.
<hansfbaier> ScottK: Thank you very much for the feedback.
<ScottK> hansfbaier: You're welcome.
<hansfbaier> persia: Thanks too.
<hyperair> is anyone free to review remuco-server? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/remuco-server
<kklimonda> any motu around to sponsor bug 368855?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368855 in cherrypy3 "formatwarning() definition from cherrypy3 incompatible with Python 2.6" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368855
<dholbach> good morning
<nixternal> good morning
<dholbach> hiya nixternal
<nixternal> howdy
<kklimonda> btw, to fix 368855 in KK new version of cherrypy3 has to be packaged (be either us or debian maintainer - For now I've reported bug on debian bts about it). Should I link to debian bug in this report or create a new one?
<geser> link the Debian bug to the existing bug in LP
<didrocks> good morning
<Toadstool> good morning
<bizkut> morning
<evanrmurphy> good morning/night
<toabctl> hi all. i build a new package with cdbs and created some patches with cdbs-edit-patch. when i want to build the package with debuild -S, i got: Patch debian/patches/osmap_path.patch is not applied. Why?
<runasand> toabctl: maybe you have to apply the patch first?
<toabctl> runasand, and how to do that? i thought, debuild will do it for me...
<runasand> that is a good question ;p
<runasand> toabctl: have you read what the cdbs-doc says about patching? using dpatch etc
<toabctl> runasand, thanks. i'll read the docs.
<runasand> it says something about an include-line you should add to debian/rules
<runasand> at least.. :)
<maxb> toabctl: You are including simple-patchsys.mk, yes?
<toabctl> maxb, ye
<toabctl> yes
<maxb> hmm
<maxb> Personally I find the simple-patchsys too simple, so I can't really help much more than that
<dholbach> toabctl: is that a warning or an error?
<dholbach> to me it sounds like simple-patchsys just lets you know that the patch is not applied
<toabctl> dholbach, yes, i think so
<toabctl> dholbach, here is my build-process. is it fine now? http://paste.ubuntu.com/171376/
<runasand> did you figure it out, toabctl?
<LucidFox> maxb> What's wrong with simple-patchsys?
<LucidFox> That you have to name patches in order?
<maxb> Well mainly that it's bound to cdbs, to be honest :-)
<toabctl> runasand, i think, it was only a message that the patch was not applied. it wasn't an error
<LucidFox> ah
<LucidFox> I use CDBS for simple common scenarios and dh 7 when I need more fine-grained control
<LucidFox> mostly
<maxb> !
<maxb> simple, and CDBS, are not two concepts that I would use together :-)
<runasand> toabctl: ah :)
<LucidFox> Heh.
<LucidFox> Well, it allows ffor very short debian/rules files
<toabctl> maxb, im new to debian packages and cdbs and simple patch system are great for me..
<toabctl> maxb, i don't know much about makefiles and all that stuff. so cdbs is good to start.
<dholbach> toabctl: yep, looks good to me! :)
<toabctl> dholbach, and what to do now?
<toabctl> can i test the buildprocess with pbuilder?
<dholbach> toabctl: yep
<dholbach> toabctl: or with simply running   debuild
<maxb> I think the real problem with cdbs is that it's too easy to write a package that you don't really understand
<LucidFox> Is there a way to automatically install build-dependencies for a given source package or unpacked package directory?
<LucidFox> maxb> Same with dh 7
<maxb> Indeed, I favour traditional dh
<LucidFox> although at least it doesn't hide away build steps... hmm
<dholbach> LucidFox: sudo apt-get build-dep <bla>  for a package in the archive or   /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends   in the source tree
<dholbach> sudo /usr/lib/...
<directhex> ooh, running pbuilder-satisfydepends
<directhex> clever!
<LucidFox> Is pbuilder-satisfydepends used on a .dsc?
<dholbach> LucidFox: no, just in the source tree should be fine
<LucidFox> And won't it leave pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy installed?
<dholbach> /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends-gdebi then :)
<dholbach> should be faster too
<LucidFox> pbuilder's dependency resolution used to be really slow before they swithed to the pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy system
<LucidFox> There's IRC for emacs? O_O
<directhex> LucidFox, i'm waiting for emacs to get a decent text editor
<LucidFox> Old joke :p
<directhex> LucidFox, the old ones are the best
<LucidFox> ^_^
 * LucidFox switches back to Eclipse
<directhex> LucidFox, and since i can't use duke nukem forever jokes anymore...
<LucidFox> You mean Duke Nukem Dead Forever?
<directhex> whatever happened to eclipse packaging effort? what i saw made it sound like a new tarball is the coming of the apocalypse
<LucidFox> directhex> There was a preliminary 3.4 package in December 2008, last I know
<maxb> I've heard that the Eclipse build system is the stuff of nightmares
<LucidFox> The Eclipse plugin system is a mess.
<LucidFox> I updated my home installation recently and broke SVN support.
<maxb> I "packaged" Eclipse for my company's desktops (just repackaging the binaries) - worked great in 3.3 - since they introduced the supposedly "better" p2 stuff in 3.4, it's become hellaciously fragile
<LucidFox> p2?
<maxb> That piece of evil regression-laden mess that replaced the Update Manager
<LucidFox> Oh.
<LucidFox> Yes LS
<LucidFox> * :S
<LucidFox> and DEPENDENCY HELL
<LucidFox> in all caps
<LucidFox> although I only use Eclipse when I actually need a full-featured IDE.
<LucidFox> I tried using it for packaging, but I found out that what I really used was just a text editor with a directory tree view, so I switched to gedit
<maxb> It's totally only worth it for the code assist, refactoring, etc.
 * LucidFox nods
<LucidFox> yes, I can't imagine writing Java without it
<maxb> silly overly verbose language :-)
<LucidFox> I like it.
<maxb> Oh, I use it a lot too, and its.... ok
<LucidFox> I'm actually thinking of rewriting my website in Java from PHP
<maxb> I often want to beat Sun around the head with a cluestick though
<LucidFox> What for?
<maxb> Little stupidities like: there's no way to do mkdir, and find out why it fails, if it fails
<LucidFox> oh
<maxb> And, the subprocess invocation API explicitly warns you that if you don't simultaneously read both stdout and stderr of a child, buffering issues may cause you to deadlock... but there's NO WAY TO DO SO
<maxb> (short of spawning an extra thread)
<maxb> Oh, and the fact that it's practically impossible to write a Java application which doesn't require a shell/perl/python script to start it up
<maxb> These are not huge impenetrable stumbling blocks. They are just hideous warts
<directhex> LucidFox, i did the reverse - my website used to be hand-rolled JSP, which i had to port to PHP when my webhost went to hell and nobody would host JSP on the cheap
<LucidFox> Ewwww, JSP
<directhex> maxb, doesn't java have a binfmt wrapper?
<directhex> LucidFox, i can easily say something more "ewww" than JSP. watch this:
<directhex> i could write some ASP.NET in Java, using IKVM! genius!
 * LucidFox is intent to write all her new Java web applications in Wicket
<directhex> i tell a lie, i still fail to grasp the central asp.net paradigms
<maxb> Wicket is indeed rather lovely
<directhex> perhaps packaging something would help. i wonder if i could find a dfsg-free wiki or blog to package
<LucidFox> directhex> Depends on the version of ASP.NET. I vaguely remember ASP.NET 1.0, but knowing Microsoft, everything has probably changed a bazillion times already.
<directhex> LucidFox, well, i did ASP in you yoof, but ASP and ASP.NET only share a name, nothing else
<LucidFox> YES
<LucidFox> Just like ADO and ADO.NET
<quadrispro-acer1> mok0: hi! are you around?
<mok0> aye
<quadrispro-acer1> bug #193393
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 193393 in ubuntu "Please sync aften package from debian-multimedia.org" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193393
<quadrispro-acer1> i uploaded the package to REVU
<mok0> quadrispro-acer1: ah, a revu request... :-)
<quadrispro-acer1> yeah
<mok0> quadrispro-acer1: I will take a look at it later
<quadrispro-acer1> ;) ok tr
<quadrispro-acer1> * thx
<LucidFox> I thought packages from debian-multimedia.org could be uploaded directly to NEW?
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone review sabily-keyring: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sabily-keyring
<quadrispro-acer1> LucidFox: I think its's not "legal", because debian-multimedia isn't debian, so we need to review them before uploading
<directhex> LucidFox, i think it's all about branding - i.e. "you liked foo, try foo.net" rather than "you liked foo, try bar"
<quadrispro-acer1> however, the policy for this kind of pkgs isn't really clear
 * quadrispro-acer1 going away for a few of minutes
<quadrispro-acer1> directhex: sorry for the late: congrats! and welcome aboard :)
<directhex> quadrispro-acer1, thanks
<LucidFox> quadrispro-acer1> Well, I believe jdong uploaded mpeg4ip straight to NEW, and so did I with kplayer, and I got sync requests from DMO acked and approved in the past
<LucidFox> for new packages, that is
<LucidFox> directhex> yes, that's bsically it
<james_w> well, I'd at least advise you to review the licenses and debian/copyright
<LucidFox> That goes without saying, james_w :)
<james_w> well, judging by some of the things that end up in NEW, I'm not so sure :-)
<LucidFox> ^_^
<joaopinto> hi
<Toadstool> hmm, the new REVU workflow proposal looks really promising to me, I really like it
<hyperair> hmm? workflow proposal?
<hyperair> got a link?
 * Toadstool high fives whoever worked on this
<Toadstool> hyperair: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVUWorkflowProposal
<runasand> Toadstool: I agree, it looks nice :)
<Toadstool> speaking of reviewing, it's been so long since I didn't do any... I feel rusty :)
<runasand> I would if I could :]
<Toadstool> oh right... I can't advocate packages, nevermind
<savvas> if the packaging is changed from debian native to normal, it should be shown correctly in revu, right?
<jmehdi> needs review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=webstrict (I'm ready to do any change quickly as this package is here from more than a year!)
<aboudreault> Hi, I am wondering if there is someone who is very familiar with packaging and launchpad, and who can speak French. There is a few that I'd like to understand, but i have some problems to explain everything in English.
<runasand> jmehdi: have you fixed the copyright-issues and stuff? and what about the warning/notice that's shown on revu?
<loic-m_> aboudreault: fire ahead ;)
<loic-m_> jmehdi: since you're one of the two people that wrote webstrict, can't you assign a copyright for each source file? It would really help
<jmehdi> loic-m_: I've added a copyright at the beginning of the java files, should I add something else?
<loic-m_> jmehdi: only thing I see is that you're saying "please refer to the copyright file". It's not the same
<cjwatson> nothing in Ubuntu policy requires a copyright notice in every source file
<jmehdi> loic-m_: I did the same thing as the gnome-do team did
<loic-m_> jmehdi: ok
<cjwatson> there's no reason for that to cause a rejection at the revu stage
<cjwatson> some *upstream* organisations require this, e.g. GNU, but it would be crazy for Ubuntu to do so
<loic-m_> cjwatson: isn't it a pain later when there's other contributors and you can't track who touched what because of some laziness at the beginning?
<cjwatson> from our point of view, if the licensing is clear from the object as a whole distributed by upstream (i.e. the tarball) then that's all we need
<cjwatson> loic-m_: that's not Ubuntu's problem
<cjwatson> loic-m_: all we need is clear and consistent licensing
<loic-m_> cjwatson: it is when the original uploader moves away and someone has to update the package
<dlynch> Is the terminator application an excellent example from which to copy the handling of i18n tasks in python? I'm the upstream author of a desktop python application who is very new to i18n, and I'm trying to find excellent examples of organizing and packaging the po files and any other house keeping tasks
<cjwatson> loic-m_: what does that have to do with copyright status?
<cjwatson> loic-m_: you do not need this information as a packager
<loic-m_> cjwatson: spending 10+ more hours tracking a svn because else you can't also maintain it in Debian it a pain
<cjwatson> loic-m_: what does that have to do with copyright status?
<loic-m_> cjwatson: I've seen packages rejected from DD because the copyright in the source files is severely outdated (missing names)
<cjwatson> loic-m_: there has been some confusion about this from some newbie Debian ftpmasters, but I believe it's been resolved on debian-policy
<loic-m_> cjwatson: and people in Debian dropping their ITP because upstream didn't want to correct it
<cjwatson> loic-m_: as a Debian developer, you need to reproduce copyright notices from upstream
<cjwatson> loic-m_: you don't need to do better than upstream
<cjwatson> loic-m_: *shrug* those people are wrong and should have been persistent
<loic-m_> cjwatson: I'll need to read debian-policy again ;)
<cjwatson> see e.g. http://lists.debian.org/debian-policy/2009/03/msg00270.html
<cjwatson> "We do not require people to wade through $VCS commit logs or mailinglist
<cjwatson> threads to find out who wrote each single line of code."
<captivus> Good morning
<directhex> just through all the source files, when AUTHORS is out of date
<ScottK> directhex: All you need to go through the source files for is difference licenses.
<LucidFox> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-6had <-- What the heck?
<cjwatson> directhex: and even then it's a matter of debate; what one Debian ftpmaster rejects on is not the same as Debian policy
<LucidFox> it seems Launchpad teams are becoming weirder with each day
<_Andrew> How do I get a list of packages that depend upon a selected package?
<runasand> LucidFox: uuuuhm :p
<loic-m_> cjwatson: thanks for the link to the discussion
<_Andrew> I want to test my built package and make sure everything works with what's in ubuntu
<cjwatson> LucidFox: seems to me that Joey Hess might be justifiably annoyed about that
<cjwatson> I'm not aware that anyone from Ubuntu helped him to write dh7 at all
<cjwatson> _Andrew: the dctrl-tools package has useful search tools
<_Andrew> thanks
<runasand> http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/3616/ubuntu.jpg -- ^_^
<Hobbsee> runasand: haha.  wave the magic wand
<runasand> Hobbsee: yeah ;p
<_Andrew> The package "funguloids" says it depends upon "ogre-plugins-cgprogrammanager" however there is no such package?
<LucidFox> O_O
<Hobbsee> runasand: "IT support.  have you tried turning it off and back on again?"
<runasand> Hobbsee: \o/
<runasand> Hobbsee: the it crowd rocks :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> indeed!
<directhex> Hobbsee, i had to do that to a car once.
<directhex> Hobbsee, i had to reboot the engine to make the stereo stop sounding like a bad Am radio
<Hobbsee> hah.  nice!
<directhex> Hobbsee, not really :|
<directhex> no wonder GM are in the toilet
 * kmdm sighs and notes he still has 0118 999 881 999 119 7253 committed to memory, tune et al. :)
<ScottK> _Andrew: There is such a package, it's just never built, IIRC.
 * runasand wonders what "et al" means
<loic-m_> Is it still required that changelog for a new package only contain one entry?
<kmdm> runasand: probably nothing, but I sometimes use it as "and all" ;)
<runasand> loic-m_: think so
<runasand> kmdm: ah :)
<ScottK> _Andrew: IIRC as it stands it's impossible to get it to build on our buildds.  It only works in Debian because they allow binary uploads.
<directhex> tsk. unbuildable packages
<_Andrew> I think the bug I filed (284750) changes that
<ScottK> It's non-free/multiverse anyway
<directhex> tsk. non-free
<ScottK> _Andrew: Yes.  That would do it.
<jmehdi> loic-m_: do you see any other problems with my webstrict package?
<loic-m_> jmehdi: your changelog should only had one entry AFAIK
<ScottK> popey: Cheers for advertising a new service without spamming my inbox.  When I read, "It's now moved into an invite-only beta phase" I thought for a moment it was going to be an ubuntuone parody.
<loic-m_> jmehdi: keep the top entry (1.4...), just copy/paste in it the entries from 1.3... (unless you droped the patches)
<jmehdi> loic-m_: should I keep the version? (1.4-0ubuntu2)
<jmehdi> loic-m_: to upload again on revu should I put 1.4-0ubuntu3?
<popey> :) ScottK
<loic-m_> jmehdi: no, keep everything at 0ubuntu1 since only the upload to Ubuntu repositories (= not REVU uploads) counts in Ubuntu
<jmehdi> loic-m_: ok, that's what I thought
<loic-m_>  jmehdi: (that's different than on Debian)
<loic-m_>  jmehdi: I didn't have the time to really check, but you seem to have addressed all of persia's concerns
<jmehdi> loic-m_: ok, is it correct: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/171631/
<loic-m_>  jmehdi: you should put the fact you addressed all his concerns in a comment (wheter you detail that or not) to encourage reviewers to check your package
<jmehdi> loic-m_: ok, and how is made the final approval?
<loic-m_> jmehdi: looks ok to me
<loic-m_> jmehdi: you need to convince two MOTU to review and advocate your package
<jmehdi> loic-m_: ok
<loic-m_> jmehdi: another thing that can help (but isn't required) is uploading you package to a PPA (if you have one) to show that it builds ok (and people can try it too)
<jmehdi> it's already on my PPA (but not this last version) ; where should I put the PPA url? in a comment on REVU ?
<loic-m_> jmehdi: it just depends if people are busy or not at a certain time. I'd suggest hanging around on REVU days (Fridays) since people set time aside for reviewing
<loic-m_> jmehdi: yes, in a comment it's good
<jmehdi> loic-m_: ok
<loic-m_> jmehdi: changelog un-necessary > unnecessary
<jmehdi> loic-m_: ok ;)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<freeflying> bddebian: hi
<bddebian> Hi freeflying
<cpscotti> dae gabo!
<GaboB> e aii scotinho!!!
<GaboB> vamo fludÃ¡Ã¡Ã¡Ã¡Ã¡
<jmehdi> loic-m_: I try to upload my package on revu again but it tells me "Already uploaded to revu on revu.ubuntuwire.com" "Doing nothing for webstrict_1.4-0ubuntu1_source.changes"
<jmehdi> loic-m_: (that's why I increased the version number last time)
<cjwatson> runasand: it's short for "et alii", Latin for "and others"
<runasand> cjwatson: ah, thanks! :)
<loic-m_> jmehdi: you need to force the upload : dput -f ......
<jmehdi> loic-m_: so simple ;)
<loic-m_>  jmehdi: for PPA it's different AFAIK,  it won't work and you'll just have to bump the changelog, f.e. add ~ppa1 (-0ubuntu1~ppa1), debuild again and upload
<Elbrus> runasand: et al usually meant "and others" (from Latin) ... [14:53] * runasand wonders what "et al" means
 * Elbrus seems to be late by mere minutes ;)
<artfwo> Hello! I have fixed an archive rejection for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/scantailor - would anyone like to review/readvocate? Thanks!
<ni|> hello, i've built a working deb file
<ni|> and everything appears great on jaunty
<ni|> i'm concerned however about it being backwards compatible
<ni|> i want to make one deb for the 8.04 up to 9.04 -- is this impossible?  Do i need to run the debuild -b -us -uc on all the version i want to support and provide debs for each version :/
<azeem> ni|: launchpad PPAs do that for you I think; at least you can upload source for every version you want to support and get it built there
<ni|> azeem: this is a binary that the company i'm working with requested -- its not source sadly
<directhex> ni|, a package in a PPA does not "cascade", i.e. a version uploaded to hardy is not written to the jaunty Packages.gz file
<ni|> directhex: interesting
<azeem> ni|: why do you need to support 8.10?
<directhex> ni|, generally speaking, a package is compatible between releases as long as its dependencies are well written and still true
<ni|> i mean i only have 3 really
<ni|> unfortunatley one of them is qt4
<ni|> and qt3 is all that is present in 8.04
<directhex> then you have a problem, don't you
<ni|> yes i do
<ni|> directhex: but i suppose i could do some finagling
<directhex> qt 4.4.0 is in hardy-backports
<ni|> directhex: you suspect that the important line is the depends line in control
<directhex> so you could simply insist that people have backports enabled
<ni|> directhex: yes, thats what I was thinking
<ni|> this was a painless experience :P
<ni|> thanks a lot
<directhex> oh, and always make sure you compile your app on the oldest os you plan on supporting, as compatibility rarely goes both ways
<ScottK> There is Qt4 in Hardy.
<directhex> -backports
<directhex> oh, wait
<directhex> i'm misreading p.u.c
<ScottK> I mean in the release pocket.
<directhex> hardy has 4.3.4
<ScottK> Even Dapper has some version of Qt4.
<directhex> i think the ABI question holds even truer then - make sure you build against the "right" version of Qt4
<directhex> assuming some degree of ABi backward-compatibility
<imbrandon> assume , hrm , lets break this word down ... ass-u-me .... ass ( out of ) u ( and ) me
<imbrandon> lol
<savvas> ScottK: it looks like boost1.38 needs similar patches as the ones in boost1.37 to enable python2.6
<ScottK> savvas: I'd expect so.
 * ScottK hasn't looked
<savvas> there is a related bug at debian, but it's marked as wishlist: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=523901
<ubottu> Debian bug 523901 in libboost-python1.38-dev "libboost-python1.38-dev: python 2.6" [Wishlist,Open]
<aboudreault> what could be the reason of this message: dpkg-genchanges: warning: ignoring -sd option for native Debian package
<savvas> aboudreault: does the source come with a debian/ folder?
<savvas> I mean the source from where you downloaded it
<aboudreault> no. i took the debian folder in a svn repository, and copied it my original source
<savvas> hmm
<savvas> ok in debian you have orig.tar.gz which should be the original source as .tar.gz without debian folder
<aboudreault> Hmm... maybe because my original source is .tar.bz2 and not .tar.gz ?
<savvas> aboudreault: can you execute this and paste it in a paste.ubuntu.com: ls -l
<savvas> while in the directory I mean :)
<savvas> I need to see the folder/file names
<aboudreault> k
<aboudreault> in fact... geos-3.1.0 is my directory, and i have geos-3.1.0.orig.tar.bz2 at the same level
<savvas> ah ok
<aboudreault> (i tried to use a .tar.gz..... same thing)
<savvas> bunzip2 geos-3.1.0.orig.tar.bz2
<savvas> gzip -9 geos-3.1.0.orig.tar
<savvas> mv geos-3.1.0.orig.tar.gz geos_3.1.0.orig.tar.gz
<aboudreault> haa... the "-"
<savvas> yes, orig.tar.gz needs an "_" between the package name and the version :)
<savvas> the rest need "-"
<aboudreault> i forgot that. thanks a lot
<savvas> np
<aboudreault> is there an easy way to delete the "extra" source upload on launchpad ? :P
<savvas> you mean upload the same version number again? no, I don't think they allowed that
<savvas> just make ~ppa1 to ~ppa2 :)
<aboudreault> that will remove the extra .orig.tar.gz ?
<aboudreault> i've uploaded the file 3 times. hardy,intrepid, jaunty. didn't notice that it uploaded the full source 3 times.
<aboudreault> anyway, that only ~15mb :P
<savvas> I don't know about that, ask in #launchpad :)
<aboudreault> ok ^^
<aboudreault> what is the tool to compare 2 ubuntu version?
<aboudreault> dpkg.. kk.
<savvas> yep, dpkg --compare-version :)
<ScottK> savvas: Python 2.6 stuff is just wishlist in Debian because 2.6 is just in Experimental currently.
<savvas> ScottK: ah ok :) the cgal package merge is ready though blocked by this. bug 374440
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374440 in cgal "Please merge cgal 3.3.1-4ubuntu1 (multiverse) to 3.4-4 from Debian unstable (non-free)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374440
<ScottK> savvas: Does it work with 1.37?
<savvas> I will probably have to wait for boost1.38 to be fixed and re-do it if there's a new cgal package in the future
<savvas> didn't try it, I'll check in about 30 minutes and let you know :)
<ScottK> 1.37 is already moved to Main, so until we hear otherwise, that's not a bad target.
<savvas> oki doki
<savvas> darn, "No, dcsharp is no longer active."
<LucidFox> Can I rejoin u-u-s? My term expired during the Jaunty cycle.
<LucidFox> gilir> There is no need to attach Ubuntu dendiffs when merging, since most of it will be a massive upstream diff that isn't of interest
<LucidFox> * debdiffs
<gilir> LucidFox: about which bug ?
<LucidFox> bug #354825
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 354825 in gpac "Merge gpac 0.4.5 from debian-multimedia.org" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/354825
<gilir> I think someone ask one for another package, but I'm agree with you :)
<james_w> hey gilir
<james_w> stop filing sync requests and apply for MOTU already! :-)
<gilir> hi james_w :)
<LucidFox> gilir> Commented on gpac
<gilir> james_w: I think I finish most of the possible sync :)
<james_w> heh
<james_w> that wouldn't surprise me :-)
<gilir> but yes, I should begin my application :)
<proq> does anyone know how I would go about contacting the author of wmi?  I need to talk with them about helping port it to jaunty
<superm1> proq, wmi - as in windows management interface?
<gilir> LucidFox: Thanks, it FTBFS because the package was removed yesterday :)
<proq> superm1: yes
<superm1> proq, well what portions of it are you interested in?  it's only got certain applicable areas on linux
<proq> superm1: I was mostly interested in the winexec tool
<superm1> proq, well i'm not familiar with that unfortunately
<proq> is there a vc where multiverse package source is checked in?  I would hate to start from the 8.10 sources when something is already underway
<ScottK> james_w: I think your proposal (re UUS) is fine, just make sure you pick the right team to not get the per-package upload rights people included (I think it's just motu as IIRC core-dev belongs to motu).
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> not sure it matters that much
<james_w> but I agree
<ScottK> Probably not a big deal, but better more correct than not.
<soren> IIRC ubuntu-dev also includes per-package people, while MOTU is... Well, MOTU's.
<james_w> ScottK: I did actually hint at that in my mail
<fabrice_sp> siretart, I saw you  were looking for help with mplayer and mencoder. What kind of help are you looking for?
<siretart> fabrice_sp: atm: extending the debian package to build and install mencoder
<fabrice_sp> siretart, ok. But it seems Debian package is dropping mencoder.c, so how could we do that?
<siretart> next steps: check what lp bugs are fixed by this update (upstream 1.0rc2 -> 1.0rc3), document that in debian/changelog, upload to ubuntu
<siretart> fabrice_sp: checkout the master.unstripped branch. it contains mencoder.c
<siretart> fabrice_sp: that package will certainly use a different orig.tar.gz because of mencoder.c
<siretart> fabrice_sp: or, if that's easier for you, just copy mencoder.c from the upstream rc3 branch in. I'll cleanup the package then
<fabrice_sp> siretart, the latest one seem easier :-)
<evanrmurphy> Hi all, I'm going through the Patch Systems part of the Packaging Guide (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Patch%20Systems), but some of the example packages I'm downloading don't appear as described in the guide. For example, in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Patching%20Without%20a%20Patch%20System, we're dealing with the cron package. The guide says to look for a part in cron's debian/
<evanrmurphy> rules about applying and unapplying patches, but it's not in the rules file that came with my apt-get source cron. Am I doing something wrong, or is it possible that the guide is out of date? I'd appreciate your help.
<fabrice_sp> so this mean that in the merge diff, I will have that file, right?
<fabrice_sp> siretart, ^
<siretart> yes, but I'll make sure it will be in the orig.tar.gz for ubuntu
<evanrmurphy> Well, if anybody has any suggestions about this, please let me know.
<ni|> directhex: you still around?
<ni|> i'm using the same deb created by jaunty
<ni|> have enabled backports
<ni|> all the depends are in the backports as i search through synaptic, yet the system doesn't recongize they are there
<ni|> libqtcore4 (and its depends)
<ni|> all the qt4 stuff is there
<geser> evanrmurphy: not all packages use a patch system
<ni|> which is it
<ni|> (for my dependencies)
<evanrmurphy> geser: Thanks for responding. But cron is the package specifically chosen for this example in the guide, where it's assumed to use a patch system.
<geser> evanrmurphy: cron is used as an example for package without a patch system
<geser> evanrmurphy: when you read carefully the next example is already for udev and not cron anymore
<geser> ni|: what does "apt-cache policy libqtcore4" result? (pastebin please)
<evanrmurphy> geser: Sorry for the mistake! I confused the two packages in my question here. In udev I don't see that part in debian/rules about applying and unapplying patches either. As a result, the following Example 1 and Example 2 doesn't seem to work properly on my system.
<geser> evanrmurphy: let me guess: you got the udev source from jauny?
<geser> evanrmurphy: it looks like the package got change in the meantime. but the udev source from intrepid still uses debian/patches
<superm1> siretart_, re: bug 372280, would that mean by the same logic that mythtv could be too?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372280 in x264 "please promote x264 and vlc from multiverse to universe" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372280
<evanrmurphy> geser: Nice guess. ;) Yes, I'm using Jaunty. Do you know if there's a way for me to apt-get source from Intrepid instead?
<kklimonda> hmm.. could someone point me to a better piuparts documentation than manual?
<kklimonda> I can't make it do upgrade test for packages..
<geser> you could add a deb-src line for intrepid too and tell apt-get source to fetch from intrepid but for one case use "dget -x -u https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/udev/124-8/+files/udev_124-8.dsc" is probably faster
<kklimonda> according to man all I should have to do is point piuparts to my debs and it will automatically test if they can be upgraded to from version present in repository..
<kklimonda> but it doesn't seem to work
<kklimonda> (I can paste piuparts.log somewhere)
<savvas> james_w: do you have access to commit fixed for packagekit? could you check bug #347327 please? someone posted a fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 347327 in packagekit "crashes when installing packages from non ascii folders" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/347327
<savvas> *fixed = fixes
<james_w> I used to
<james_w> I lost it when it moved to GNOME git
<james_w> but I can forward patches
<savvas> oh..
<james_w> thanks for spotting it though
<james_w> I deleted that mail without realising there was a patch attached :-)
<savvas> I think it's specific to ubuntu/debian changes launchpad.net/packagekit
<savvas> it happens :P
<evanrmurphy> geser: Thanks a mil'!
<bjfs> Any python packaging mentor around ? ;p
<ajmitch> bjfs: there may be some, depending on the problem
<ajmitch> otherwise #debian-python on OFTC :)
<bjfs> They're silent like the lambs. All I need is to know how to split a source into two packages. One being arch "all" for the application, and another "any" for the module (binding stuff).
<bjfs> Currently I'm stuck on having a control file with the two packages described, nothing more ;-)
<ajmitch> ah, and you need to split up debian/rules to install the right stuff in the right place?
<bjfs> probably so
<kklimonda> hmm.. you could also do it using .install and .dirs files..
<ajmitch> how is the packaging currently done?
<ajmitch> kklimonda: debian/rules should still have the right sections though
<kklimonda> bjfs: is it libmimic you have mentioned on #ubuntu-pl ?
<bjfs> kklimonda: yes
<ajmitch> bjfs: see, POX is responding there also :)
<bjfs> I'll try at MOTU first, it is not that complicated
<bjfs> but I have no idea on how to split a package into anything
<kklimonda> bjfs: why can't you use libmimic from debian experimental? different api/abi?
<bjfs> kklimonda: it is not that easy, because that debian package is not what that application needs, it needs a special python module which is already in the source
<kklimonda> bjfs: oh - like this..
<bjfs> of course I could just switch "all" to "any" and it would make the magic, but I want to split it
<bjfs> but since no other app will use that module, maybe I'll just make that "any" :P
<bjfs> brainless workaround
<kklimonda> well, it isn't that brainless if module is only for this one package.
<kklimonda> hmm. I wonder what has happened to my pbuilders.. ~/.pbuilder/ is empty :/
<kklimonda> probably reckless rm -rf :/
<bjfs> it feels so weird when one joins # full of specialists, no weather talks, just weird talks about insane number of rules on zillion versions ;]
<kklimonda> dtchen: if you have some time could you help me with a piuparts? I'm trying to test package upgrade for my vmmouse merge with debian but I must be doing something wrong. According to the piuparts manual it should automatically but for some reason it just doesn't install packages from repository... I have a full log here: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/163224/piuparts.log
<kklimonda> bjfs: that's how #ubuntu channels should be ;)
<bjfs> world without PPA's would be boring ;-) another succesful package upload...
<Nafallo> i.e. release periods ;-)
<ni|> geser: i will paste it now, are you still around?
<ni|> pastebin.com/m68ccf486
<ni|> awww
#ubuntu-motu 2009-05-14
<aboudreault> Hmm, anyone know when we have to include the --sourcedir=debian/tmp ? I thought I have to add it when i was builder on hardy (debhelper 6). but I have a package that need it on  intrepid also
<aboudreault> wow..
<aboudreault> s/know/knows, s/builder/building
 * directhex waffles on a bit @ popey 
 * popey hugs directhex 
 * evanrmurphy good really go for a waffle
<evanrmurphy> s/good/could/
<directhex> popey, where to go next with my waffly blog posts? i have a post about hate, and a post about copyleft, on my TODO
<popey> two eps in a row with directhex leading the blogs, keep it up and we'll have to tag you as "official mono-rispondant"
<popey> f-spot :)
<directhex> i don't use f-spot
<directhex> i'm a terrible photographer
<directhex> and i mean conceptually, not just the quality of images. i never know what to take, and never look back at old pics
<kklimonda> hey, i need a sponsor for bugs 373845 and 376271
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 373845 in python-django-tagging "Sync python-django-tagging 0.2.1+svn154-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373845
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 376271 in python-django-filebrowser "Sync python-django-filebrowser 0+svn322-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/376271
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-17
<bdrung> arand: ping
<imbrandon> hrm, i want to get a computer "fingerprint" , sugestions ?
<ajmitch> in what sense?
<ajmitch> some form of hardware identifier?
<imbrandon> yea
 * ajmitch guesses maybe info from dmidecode, or other tools like that
<imbrandon> i was thinking something like a proc serial num and some identifying number from the /boot hdd and hash it
<imbrandon> or something
<imbrandon> dunno
<imbrandon> hrm dmidecode lookes intresting
<imbrandon> what about systems with efi and no bios
<ajmitch> no idea
<lfaraone> I see some Debian packages with Ubuntu changes in Launchpad with revision schemes like "-1build3" yet there are non-rebuild-only changes. Should I break the scheme when appling a patch and change it to "-1ubuntu1'?
<ajmitch> lfaraone: yes
<imbrandon> lfaraone: sounds sane
<lfaraone> Likewise, bug 578717 seems like something that can only effect Lucid. Does it need to be "fixed" in Maverick before being SRU'd?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 578717 in epiphany-browser "User Agent string says "Debian/squeeze/sid ()" instead of "Ubuntu/10.04 (lucid)"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/578717
<lfaraone> Nevermind, silly question.
<kobrien> hey guys, I've tried a yesterday in #ubuntu-java but got no answer. I'm packaging a java app with cdbs. I get the following error: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.tools.ant.util.regexp.Jdk14RegexpRegexp. Any ideas?
<kobrien> also as part of the same error is a note about not being able to find a regexp matcher. Now, I have installed ant-optional, and that doesn't fix it. JAVA_HOME is also set correctly.
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> good morning
<ripps> Hmm... In Maverick, why is libwildmidi only 'i386', and not 'all' like in previous releases?
<ripps> err libwildmidi-dev, that is.
<DeeJay1> hello! I have a small question - how can I get deb package descriptions translated?
<Rhonda> DeeJay1: If I'm not mistaken it uses the http://ddtp.debian.net/ service.
<Rhonda> â¦ and I still wonder when djpig will wake up to get my patches for the ubuntu-master branch of packages.git applied.  %-/
<DeeJay1> "Real names consist of alphanumeric characters, spaces and quotes and are at least 6 letter long, thanks" - well, real names consist of UTF-8 characters LOL@ddtp
<Rhonda> DeeJay1: utf-8 characters for names are a subset of alphanumeric
<DeeJay1> well, not for ddtp
<Rhonda> But I'm sure that Wookey begs to differ big time here, too.
<Rhonda> Hmm, but then, wookey is 6 characters.
<Rhonda> DeeJay1: I am having big issues with that interface myself too, but then it's the only thing we've got.
<DeeJay1> eh, well it could be worse
<Rhonda> Not much. The "review" of it isn't worth the term, it's a click-through thing that happens within the minutes without much possibility to leave the "translator" any hints or message.
<ScottK> lfaraone: WRT packages with buildX suffixes and actual changes in them, it's not rare for people to upload that way if the change is already in Debian.
<ScottK> lfaraone: So please be careful about undoing that.
<iefremov> Hi All! Can anyone help me with the following issue: my package (ugene) fails to start in Lucid with symbol lookup error. I suspect that this issue can be fixed in stable release by simple rebuilding of the package. But SRU process requires some fixes/patches etc. Is there a way to request a rebuild without patching anything ? For details, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ugene/+bug/566146
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566146 in ugene "ugene crashes on start with symbol lookup error" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> you should just be able to ask for a rebuild in an SRU
<iefremov> Laney, should I create a separate bug, or request the rebuild in an existing one (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ugene/+bug/566146) ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566146 in ugene "ugene crashes on start with symbol lookup error" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> just do it in that one
<iefremov> Ok, thanks! I will try this.
<lfaraone> james_w: Oliver Tilloy reverted the @PACKAGENAME@ change per your request in lp:~osomon/ubuntu/maverick/epiphany-browser/user_agent. Do you think the branch is now ready to be merged?
<james_w> lfaraone: I do
<lfaraone> james_w: okay, I've got it.
<james_w> thanks
<effie_jayx> hello all
<effie_jayx> does one need to enable backports ion order for pbuilder to know about Maverick as a release?
<Rhonda> effie_jayx: You can always work around by creating a lucid chroot, --login --safe-after-login and change sources.list to maverick and then do an --update
<effie_jayx> Rhonda: that is a neat trick
<effie_jayx> I am curious since I tried creating the maverick chroot and I enabled the backports and pbuilder was not updated
<effie_jayx> will keep that in mind thanks Rhonda
<Rhonda> That's the one that usually works when bootstrapping a new devel version isn't working because of toolchain b0rkage. :)
<effie_jayx> btw the multiple pbuilders section in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto needs a maverick there
<effie_jayx> Rhonda: thanks again :)
<Rhonda> effie_jayx: As that is a wiki I figure you can fix it on yourself too? :)
<effie_jayx> Rhonda: well just though I needed clearace
<effie_jayx> :P
<effie_jayx> done
<Quintasan> hiho
<ScottK> effie_jayx: The changes for a maverick chroot were done before release, so no backports needed.
<\sh> RainCT, pingeling
<\sh> hey ScottK
<ScottK> \sh: Hello.
<\sh> ScottK, couldn't say "good buy" on saturday morning...hope you arrived home safely without any ashcloud madness
<\sh> good bye I mean...still not recovered
<ScottK> \sh: Yes.  No troubles at all.
<ScottK> \sh: Yeah, me too.
 * ScottK is currently staring at the cat man page trying to remember how to use it ...
<\sh> hehe
<RainCT> Heya \sh
<\sh> RainCT, check your query
<micahg> hi \sh
<\sh> hey micahg
<arand> If in QUILT I've got debian/patches/debian in quilt, and imported my patch to debian/patches/1.patch would "quilt rename 1.diff debian/1.diff" be the best thing to do as far as organisation?
<arand> Also does it matter if it's -p0? (The original imported is.)
<arand> And.. How would I reference a Fedora bug (source of fix) in the changlog?
<ScottK> arand: How about "Fedora Bug #nnnnnn"?  There isn't a standard rule for that.
<AnAnt> if it is a patch, there is a header for this
<arand> Okay.
<ScottK> True.  That's the place for details like a link to the exact place you got the patch from.
<arand> Yea, I've written a header, but I thought I'd put it down in the changelog as well..
<AnAnt> Bug-Fedora
<AnAnt> ah, ok
<arand> Should a quilt patch be refreshed to apply with -p1, or kept true to original with -p0  (lintian warns on -p0)
<AnAnt> p1 I recall
<_Andrew> I'm building a package for hardy under compat 6. In my install file I have "usr/bin" however dh_install fails to find /usr/bin/xyz
<_Andrew> Any ideas?
<_Andrew> I've tried "usr/bin/*" and "debian/tmp/usr/bin", etc
<_Andrew> I'm using "dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp --fail-missing"
 * abogani waves
<abogani> imbrandon: Are you around?
<abogani> imbrandon: Sorry for delay in reply. I have placed the updated version of linux-rt package for Lucid in my PPA at: https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/broken/+packages
<imbrandon> kk
<arand> If a patched package in -proposed fails, is it enough to simply comment on the original bug?
<crimsun> arand: do you mean that the -proposed packages "fails" to resolve the symptom of the bug? Yes, comment.
<crimsun> "fails" there is ambiguous, namely "fails to install", "fails to upgrade", etc. are all valid interpretations ;-)
<arand> Yes, it's Bug #526849, the hardy fix is incomplete.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 526849 in pastebinit "pastes to pastebin.com no longer work" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526849
<crimsun> (nonetheless they're all cause for validation-failed)
<ajmitch> "causes irreparable data loss" is also another fail, though unlikely in this case
<arand> Yea, I've marked that as well, I was just thinking if there werer any more things to be done.
<arand> It's simply that the pastebinit link output is garbled
<arand> Where can I see the -proposed queue by the way?
<ajmitch> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
<ajmitch> I think that's what you were looking for?
<arand> ajmitch: cheers :) The queues are always a bugger to find...
<ajmitch> you've checked that you have the right version of pastebinit installed before testing?
 * ajmitch had an SRU for boost1.38 where the person testing have a self-compiled python-visual, which was linked against an old, unpatched boost version
<ajmitch> thankfully we got that sorted
<arand> ajmitch: Yea, well, the patch is exactly the same as I tested earlier and confirmed as not working on hardy...
<arand> Seems like someone didn't read my comments :D
<ajmitch> right, the bit about the patch being unfinished :)
<ajmitch> problem is that the tags apply across all releases, so while it may be fixed on jaunty, you can only tag it as failed for all
<ajmitch> how annoying
<arand> Yea, well I'm marking as committed for k&j and confimed for hh, so there's at least som distinction there
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-18
<micahg> arand: BTW, abiword 2.8.4 just hit maverick
<crimsun> thank goodness :-)
<ajmitch> does 2.8.4 fix a few problems?
<arand> Nice.
<micahg> s/hit/uploaded/
<crimsun> ajmitch: yes
<arand> It fixes the crash-on-help one, although that should hopefully be fixed with my svn cherrypick.
<arand> ...In lucid as well
<crimsun> not least of which is the xmlCleanupParser() madness
<crimsun> which historically makes pulse look bad, but it's in fact people not bloody reading the libxml2 API
<ajmitch> uh
<ajmitch> how does that have anything to do with pulse? :)
<arand> Uh, what? Was pulse involved in this?
<crimsun> calling xmlCleanupParser() multiple times tramples all over the pulse client's TLS vars
<crimsun> as a result, the offending pulse client (the program abusing xmlCleanupParser()) segfaults, with the stack trace pointing to pulse
<ajmitch> oh that must have been a bundle of fun
<crimsun> I combed through the archive toward the end of the Lucid cycle to fix this
<arand> One good thing with a new abiword is that 2.8.2 seems to FTBFS on my MM system as well :/
<crimsun> would a member of ~ubuntu-release please unsub the team from bug 568619 so I won't spam everyone?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568619 in gorm.app "FFe: Sync gorm.app 1.2.10-1 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568619
<AnAnt> Hello, how can I fix this bashism: echo -e "text text \n text text \t text ..." ?
<AnAnt> if I remove -e, it would work fine with dash, but not with bash
<crimsun> AnAnt: check the xpg_echo shell option and act appropriately
<crimsun> AnAnt: in bash, that is
<AnAnt> crimsun: thanks, I used printf instead
<imbrandon> evening all
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<imbrandon> so its kinda cool, i picked up this tiny 11inch dell from like 1999, its funny its like its got all the features of the new "mini"s just slower
<imbrandon> got lucid loaded on it, but it dosent like gnome/unity much , toooooo slugish , like firefox takes 2 minutes to load
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> so i got lucid but i apt-get installed fluxbox + a few other lighter apps and its great little mobile machine to use to ssh into other boxes etc
<imbrandon> for free ;)
<imbrandon> its 700mhz, so its not "terrible"
<ajmitch> not bad
<imbrandon> i think most of the slowness is the only 128mb ram, it maxes out at 256 says dells website if i can run accross a 256mb pc-100 sodimm at somepoint
<imbrandon> sooo whats new in motu ?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/latl400/en/ug/specs.htm
<imbrandon> heh
<_Andrew> #debian
<_Andrew> woops
<_Andrew> Anyone know why when I do "dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp --fail-missing" and inside my install script it has the following.. "usr/bin" my package fails to find something installed in debian/tmp/usr/bin/xyz ?
<persia> _Andrew: I may be mistaken, but I believe --fail-missing only fails if there are things in the temporary directory that are unallocated to any package, rather than if there are things missing from the temporary directory.
<_Andrew> Here's the error message.. "debian/tmp/usr/bin/cpack exists in debian/tmp/ but is not installed to anywhere"
<dholbach> good morning
<_Andrew> I'm using compatibility level 6 and have tried "debian/tmp/usr/bin", "debian/tmp/usr/bin/*", "usr/bin", "usr/bin/*" and probably some other combinations.
<_Andrew> It never seems to find it in the .install file
<persia> One of the changes in compatibility level 7 was some new logic to make the .install files make more sense :)
<persia> I tend to list stubborn files explicitly and individually.
<_Andrew> Can't because this package is for hardy
<_Andrew> Otherwise yes, I'd bump up the compat in a heartbeat :D
<persia> How did it work before you started fixing it?
<_Andrew> I specifically lists all the programs.. I think I already tried that. but I'll give it another go
<_Andrew> It**
<persia> That seems about right, from my memory.  Best practice when working with older packages is to touch the absolute minimum.
<G> It's been a while since I've done Debian style packaging, but I'm looking to get back into it, I've got a package that has downloaded as: foo-0.2.1-source.tar.gz and extracts as foo-0.2.1-source, the example at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/PackagingFromScratchHelloDebhelper shows 'tar -xf hello-x.y.tar.gz hello-x.y' so my question is, does the -source matter, or is that something I have to rename out?
<persia> The name of the directory in the upstream tarball matters not at all.
<Rhonda> It neither matters for dpkg-source, it though issues a warning which can get ignored. :)
<Rhonda> When packaging inside a VCS I usually have the directory only named VCS for consistency issues.
<umang> Hi, I maintain a package on Debian that entered sid after the Lucid DIF. If I want it to be imported into maverick then do I have to file a bug or will it automatically happen after MM's DIF?
<G> persia: Rhonda: great, thats for that (and thanks for the hint abotu the warning)
<persia> umang: It ought enter the NEW queue automatically.
<Rhonda> umang: It hopefully will automatically happen _before_ MM's DIF. :)
<Rhonda> â¦ because after DIF there isn't any automatism for that anymore.
<umang> persia, Rhonda: so I don't need do anything for it to be included in maverick?
<persia> umang: It wouldn't hurt to track the progress through https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+queue but it ought require no action on your part.
<umang> persia, I'm not able to find it under any of the statuses. So I presume it will enter one of those queues later?
<persia> Right.  The archive admins usually wait until the current packages sync has made significant progress before syncing the new packages.
<umang> persia, Thanks! :)
<persia> I'd recommend checking again in a week or so.  if you still haven't seen it in any of the queues by a few weeks before DIF, then it may merit investigation.
<persia> With luck, you'll only ever notice it in DONE.
<umang> persia, Sure, I'll do that. :)
 * Rhonda still waits for packages.ubuntu.com to display maverick â¦
<Rhonda> â¦ and for wesnoth-1.8 syned into maverick. ;)
<mok0> Any schroot users? I am getting loads of messages of the following type, and it is starting to annoy me. I already tried to edit /etc/schroot/schroot.conf, but to no avail.
<mok0> W: line 19 [karmic-0f03ab72-3520-4df4-a561-e3d55c218892]: Deprecated key 'run-exec-scripts' used
<mok0> I: This option will be removed in the future; please update your configuration
<mok0> W
<azeem> mok0: yeah, it's pretty annoying
<geser> mok0: do you have a "run-exec-scripts" line in your schroot.conf?
<mok0> I removed it
<geser> and still this warning?
<azeem> mok0: karmic-0f03ab72-3520-4df4-a561-e3d55c218892 means it's from a session
<persia> The only way I found to make that go away was to regenerate the schroots.
<azeem> mok0: so umount those bind mounts and close all sessions
<mok0> Lemme see
<azeem> (I don't understand why schroot needs sessions anyway)
<persia> `schroot -e -c ${SESSIONID}` automates that.
<persia> azeem: Because sometimes you want to run several in parallel, or you might want to have persistent schroots for some reason, etc.
<azeem> hrm
<mok0> There are no mounted work volumes
<mok0> persia: what is SESSIONID?
<persia> mok0: I'm not entirely sure.  When I use schroot with lvm, the necessary magic value appears in the lvs output.
<azeem> mok0: probably karmic-0f03ab72-3520-4df4-a561-e3d55c218892 or without the karmic-
 * persia is still learning about schroot-without-lvm
<persia> I think it's with the karmic
<azeem> persia: those should be a specially requested operation though, not the default
<azeem> I assume sbuild is to blame here
<persia> azeem: Kinda.  So, when sbuild crashes, the schroot doesn't close.  this can be useful in many ways, but also annoying sometimes.
<mok0> There are similar lines for my jaunty builder
<persia> By default, schroot opens a session, and closes it when complete.  This is essential if one has configured schroots to be used on a multiuser box, or if one wants to do parallel builds with sbuild, etc.
<mok0> You think I should enter the schroots, and make the change to /etc/schroot... etc there?
<persia> Keeping the session open after exit requires a special command-line argument.
<persia> mok0: That may work: regeneration is likely cleaner.
<mok0> persia: yeah, sometimes the roots stay around even after the build finishes, but that's not the case for me now
<mok0> persia: I'm not sure I understand "regenerate"... run mk-sbuild again?
<persia> What I did was remove the stanzas from schroot.conf, remove the storage (either LV or /var/lib/schroot/... ) and then rebuild them from scratch.
<persia> This is not necessarily the optimal solution.
<mok0> persia: I have so many schroots
<mok0> 13...
 * persia wrote one-line wrapper script around mk-sbuild that day
<mok0> Hmm :-)
<persia> for i in dapper hardy jaunty karmic lucid maverick; do for j in amd64 armel i386 powerpc; do mk-sbuild --arch=$j $i; done; done takes care of Ubuntu.  Debian is similar.
 * persia may have mistyped syntax
<persia> Note that this will take a while, and it is advised to be network-near a mirror of at least the buildd stuff.
<persia> (and use --debootstrap-mirror=...)
<mok0> persia: fortunately, I have an apt-proxy
<mok0> on the local network
<persia> That works too, at least for some subset :)
<mok0> persia: can't remember... do you need to edit schroot.conf first?
<persia> I just deleted everything that I was replacing from there.
<persia> Also remember to remove the backing storage configuration, as mk-sbuild is a bit fragile about that.
<mok0> *sigh*
 * mok0 procrastinates: I think I'll do it... sometime
<mok0> In fact, I might just figure out what part of sbuild issues those messages and zap them :-)
<persia> I'm sure it's something inside the schroot.  if you figure out what, probably best to write an exec script that cleans up elderly schroots on intialisation.
<mok0> Hm. Nothing inside the schroot
<G> does lucid have a buggy autoconf?  it's generated a configure script with includedir=$PREFIX/include, instead of includedir=$PREFIX/usr/include, is there a standard fix for that?
<Rhonda> G: What's wrong with that? includedir=$PREFIX/include seems to be correct to me?
<Rhonda> â¦ because usually PREFIX itself is /usr
<G> is there any way I can verify what debuild is executing (such as -v) so I can see what it's passing to autoconf.sh?
<azeem> G: try DH_VERBOSE=1
<azeem> (wild guess)
<G> azeem: ohhh thanks
<G> (it's been a while)
<G> hmmm, this is confusing I can't seem to get any debhelper logging :S
<piju> http://9w2pju.blogspot.com/2010/05/ubuntu-hams-t-shirt-artwork-from-9w2pju.html
<piju> what do you think?
<mok0> piju, Interesting. How is HAM radio related to Ubuntu? Just curious
<mok0> Internet over HAM?
<piju> mok0; join #ubuntu-hams
<mok0> piju: I'm not a HAM operator. Just curious
<piju> ubuntu got lots of ham radio applications
<piju> try apt-cache search ham radio
<piju> shackbox is a distro for ham radio, made from ubuntu distro
<piju> you can use ubuntu for ham radio
<porthose> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/hamradio/
<piju> morse code, APRS, echolink (VOIP), etc
<piju> design your antenna, and many more
<mok0> Woa
<mok0> Heh
<piju> where do you come from ?
<mok0> Denmark. in this country, I think it is pretty near impossible to get a license unless you want to spend every free hour
<piju> you can ask your local ham radio club, how to get a ham license
<piju> we can talk over ham radio
<mok0> piju: You need to learn morse code
<piju> im from Malaysia
<piju> mok0; in the US, no more morse code test
<mok0> piju, what's wrong with IRC :-)
<mok0> piju: yeah I read that
<piju> there is lot of open source developer who are ham radio too
<piju> #hamradio
<mok0> piju: my interest in ham would be more like tunneling internet over it
<piju> yes, we have echolink for that
<piju> VOIP
<piju> i can talk using my pc to a man who are driving in England
<piju> and vice versa
<mok0> piju, somehow I'm not impressed :-)
<piju> you can talk to astronout if you a ham radio
<piju> mok0; yes, i know that. you are generation of computer, not radio
<mok0> piju: errh
<piju> even most advanced military still use radio
<piju> international space station too
<mok0> piju: encrypted probably
<piju> encrypted ?
<piju> yes. for sure. military will use encryption
<mok0> piju: I would assume that the military encrypt their radio communication. I may be wrong
<mok0> ah
<piju> but, not for ham radio
<mok0> piju: I see
<piju> ISS also not encrypting their broadcasting
<piju> you can listen to them
<mok0> piju: that would be research thought
<mok0> though
<piju> mok0; i know a ham radio from Denmark
<mok0> piju: where?
<mok0> where in dk  I mean
<piju> i dont remember
<piju> but he is a ham
<mok0> I think ham guys are pretty rare here
<mok0> b/c of the steep requirements for getting a license
<tarzeau> how can i get someone to have a look at a package in revu?
<Rhonda> By dropping in a hint with more content, like URL or package name or similar.
<tarzeau> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/fracplanet-1005071518/fracplanet_0.4.0-1ubuntu3.dsc it's a tool to create 3d fractal planets
<tarzeau> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/sea-defender-1005071521/sea-defender_0.9-1.dsc is a small recreational game where you defend oil tankers being hit by torpedos
<tarzeau> Rhonda: thanks for the hint
<G> so, last question for now (I'm about to head to bed), should I run this 'autogen.sh' and have it as a patch to the build, or should I add it to the debian/rules file?
<tarzeau> G: which package/software is it?
<G> tarzeau: it's a library (dep for an end package I'd like to do) qpixmap
<G> tarzeau: the tarball comes with an autogen.sh file (they released straight from git)
<tarzeau> G: i see
<G> Doing it as a patch would be cleaner right?
<tarzeau> G: the cleanest would be upstream releasing without you having to run it
<G> true, but for now (while I contact upstream)
<tarzeau> G: i don't know, all my upstreams cooperate on these things with me
<G> so there isn't a given standard
<tarzeau> G: i think that's the best i know about it: http://sam.zoy.org/lectures/20050910-debian/
<tarzeau> G: what does your autogen.sh do?
<eagles0513875> hey guys i have a question relating to a piece of software that has made some others in the current lucid repos obsolete
<tarzeau> yes?
<eagles0513875> can anyone point or direct me as to the proper procedure in getting something into the next release
<tarzeau> eagles0513875: what is it, url?
<eagles0513875> tarzeau: mysql workbench
<eagles0513875> it has replace mysql admin and query browser which are still in the repos
<eagles0513875> those have reached their eol
<eagles0513875> http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/5.2.html#downloads tarzeau
<eagles0513875> im more then willing to repackage it if need be as i need to learn about packaging and want to learn about it
<tarzeau> eagles0513875: i have no idea. i wonder what the debian people do with the mysql packages...
<eagles0513875> tarzeau: that package was created upstream at mysql
<tarzeau> i really don't know
<G> tarzeau: basically everything except clean the kitchen sink (generates ./configure, Makefile's etc
<eagles0513875> G: any idea then how i should go about getting a new package into the new release and possibly backported to lucid
<tarzeau> eagles0513875: i don't think backporting it to lucid makes sense here?
<eagles0513875> ill be back later to continue working on this
<Rhonda> \o/ - seems like maverick sync is open, bug #109434 sent me a mail :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 109434 in wesnoth-1.8 "Installing a server for a game automatically auto-inits and runs every boot." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/109434
<tarzeau> Rhonda: they already synced on 9.5 if not earlier
<Rhonda> tarzeau: Well, there was an ubuntu diff in lucid, so I guess that might be the reason for the "delay".
<tarzeau> Rhonda: aha. any idea what happens with sea-defender and fracplanet now?
<Rhonda> No clue, I don't have the time for that myself, sorry.
<fagan> Does anyone package any vala apps for the repo?
<fagan> Im looking for guidance about how to do the vala ppa stuff for quickly
<MTecknology> !info php5
<ubottu> php5 (source: php5): server-side, HTML-embedded scripting language (metapackage). In component main, is optional. Version 5.3.2-1ubuntu4.1 (lucid), package size 1 kB, installed size 20 kB
<Riddell> slangasek: you uploaded bug 519541 but didn't accept it or note your SRU approval?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 519541 in abiword "Abiword 2.8.1 freezes with document lost when help is clicked or F1 is pressed" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/519541
<slangasek> Riddell: I uploaded it in a sponsor capacity, would prefer a second vote of confidence from another SRU team member for the acceptance
<benste> hi, this channel was fullfilled by those who do some packaging work right ? - I'm trying the latest gnome-power-manager from git master but didn't finish to compile it becuase autogen quotes it needs gnome-keyring0 but there is no such package in ubuntu - what can I do ?
<benste> someone here ?
<benste> solved - hidden in libgnome-keyring-dev
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, will you take care of libclass-trait-perl merge/sync?
<micahg> ari-tczew: i'll try to get to libjdic-java early next month
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, yeah I can look into that
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, you're the one that last touched it :-)
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'm glad and amazed of yours memory and solidity :))
<micahg> ari-tczew: I noticed all the merges you were doing so I figured it would be on you mind ;)
<ari-tczew> micahg: yea, I'll try to merge libjdic-java if you'll have done fix ftbfs on debian :>
<micahg> ari-tczew: I was going to merge in ubuntu first and then push the fixes up to debian
<ari-tczew> micahg: feel free, your choice :)
<micahg> ari-tczew: k, thanks
<MTecknology> how can I see if I have any packages that were installed that werent' from the repos that are currently running
<carstenh> ask google about ask-listrepository and grep for dpkg/status in its output
<MTecknology> carstenh: thanks
<MTecknology> carstenh: hm?? I'm not finding anything useful
<carstenh> MTecknology: sorry, a typo ...
<carstenh> MTecknology: bugs.debian.org/504460
<carstenh> MTecknology: download it, run chmod a+x apt-listrepository and then ./apt-listrepository | grep dpkg/status
<MTecknology> carstenh: thanks
<ari-tczew> fta: are you planning merge chromium-browser with debian unstable?
<fta> ari-tczew, no. please read the bug(s) as for why
<fta> ari-tczew, and remember debian used our package, not the opposite
<ari-tczew> fta: ok thanks for information
<mirsal> hello
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-19
<classvoid> crimsun, gotcha
<classvoid> crimsun, I forced installed the gnustep-devel package without gorm.app - the only error I'm getting now seems to be a pointer confusion with the objc in GormNibWrapperLoader.m - so working on tracing that now
<crimsun> fabrice_sp: do you plan to convert 568619 to SRU format for lucid-proposed?
<crimsun> classvoid: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/gorm.app_1.2.8-1ubuntu0.1.debdiff
<crimsun> classvoid: I'd appreciate if you can test that debdiff so that we can proceed with the SRU process
<crimsun> ah dang, karmic has a matching version
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: /away not here
<RoAkSoAx> upsy
<RoAkSoAx> :P
<G> Is Ubuntu using the dpkg-source 3.0 (i.e. should new packages use it or is lintian been overreactive)
<RAOF> G: You can use it, or not, at your choice.
<classvoid> crimsun, so not test it lol?
<G> RAOF: thanks
<classvoid> crimsun, yep that was the fix
<classvoid> crimsun, sorry I got caught up in something
<imbrandon> evening all
<G> imbrandon: kia ora
<G> hmmmm, I think this is a pull hair out moment
<imbrandon> kia ora?
<G> imbrandon: Hello in Maori
<imbrandon> ahhh :)
<imbrandon> i was hoping it was a "good thing"(tm)
<ScottK> All depends on what you're in to.
<crimsun> classvoid: did you test the fix locally? (build, install, execute)
<imbrandon> G: if you choose not to use 3.0 please specifiy 1.0 in source/format though so others know that you intentionaly dident change
<imbrandon> not a "rule" but good to follow imho
<G> so, this upstream has a habbit of breaking compatability with previous versions and this bit of (rather useful software) needs an earlier version
<imbrandon> G: sounds like a maintainers nightmare ;)
<G> the library upstream actually released a special 'version' where they renamed the library so multiple copies could be installed, is this okay (I guess it's kinda like what I've seen with libpng iirc)
<G> "This is an update of the original 0.5.1 release that renames exported library/header symbols and header install locations from 'celt*' to 'celt051*' in order to assist in packaging and deploying compatability versions of this prerelease alongside later, incompatible versions of celt. In addition, this release contains fixes to all bugs known to affect the original 0.5.1 release. "
<imbrandon> that sounds evil, but dont go by what i'm saying strictly, i'm not a lib packaging guru
<imbrandon> so its 0.5.1 + fixes but still versioned 0.5.1 , even more evil ...
<G> imbrandon: it's released as 'celt-0.5.1.3' but really it's now celt051-0.5.1.3
<imbrandon> crimsun: i been meaning to poke you on a personal note too, do you know of a gui mixer applet that could easily be used ( just for basic volume control ) in fluxbox
<crimsun> alsamixergui
<imbrandon> crimsun: thanks
<G> imbrandon: btw, thanks for the format tip
<crimsun> or have an 'x-terminal-emulator -e alsamixer' swallowed
<imbrandon> G: yea as i said i'm not a lib package guru, only done a very little bit of it over my ubuntu-dev career the past few years, BUT something about that dont smell "right"
<G> imbrandon: where/who is the best person to ask about it?
<imbrandon> G: this is probably the place, as to who , i'm not 100% sure ...
<imbrandon> ( or #ubuntu-dev durring "business" hours in GMT time )
<imbrandon> but honestly porobavly would start here as you have
<G> k, see libpng has got a libpng3 and a libpng12 package, so I guess there is some history of this happening
<imbrandon> G: first thing i would do if you havent ( and dont take this wrong ) but RTFM ( specificly the debian lib package part ) its rather short and to the point, but in the meantime your on the right track in here with the questions , i
<imbrandon> 'm just not 100% the best to awnser them all
<G> actually, I'm wrong about libpng3/12
<G> imbrandon: hmmm, I'll re-read that part
<imbrandon> G: got an upstream url, and current ubuntu/debian source package name ? i'll take a cursory look so i can help a bit more specificly with q's if you wish
<G> http://www.celt-codec.org/downloads/ atm there is libcelt in lucid which is 0.7.1
<imbrandon> G: yea lib packing is its own beast i have learned, it has some very specific set of guidelines iirc
<imbrandon> G: kk
<G> I've done Library packaging before in the RH/Fedora world but yeah, seem to hit a brick wall here :)
<G> (with this package)
<imbrandon> G: as far as history, yea there is history in doing similar things to that but that dosent always mean its "correct" sometimes its to fix fubar stuff
<G> turns out all my previous issues were due to silly mistakes like files named wrong :S
<imbrandon> kinda gotta watch the changelog context too
<imbrandon> yea i havent done any real packing for RPM based distros since the late 90's so i cant really speak to if its the same/diffrent
<imbrandon> G: we all do it ( the silly mistakes ) its how to handle the fix and learn form it that counts :)
<imbrandon> G: ok afk ~2 minutes gonna check out the webpage and apt-get the source
<G> imbrandon: thanks, I'm reading the Debian bit again now
<imbrandon> G: kk, yea i dident want it to seam like i was just telling ya to RTFM but in this case its pretty good docs and pretty short and to the point
<imbrandon> seem*
<imbrandon> from what i rember when i was actively working on libvisual-*
<imbrandon> speaking of , i need to update libvisual-plugins badly/soonish
<imbrandon> ok after a short cursory look , let me get this right, the "current" version is 0.7.1 both upstream and in the repos, but something else your working on needs 0.5.1 because the API/ABI isnt stable and to complicate things 0.5.1 was re-released upstream to rename the library and add some minor bugfixes
<imbrandon> am i getting that right ?
<G> yeah pretty much
<imbrandon> assuming that the above is correct, the obvious question that comes to mind is can this other project/package be {,relatively}easily updated to the 0.7.1 API/ABI ?
<G> I don't think so
<imbrandon> k
<G> now, looking at the Debian guide and how this library builds
<imbrandon> sooo what we're looking at now is making them ( 0.7.x and 0.5.x ) live togather nicely but still follow guidelines for the distro
<G> the 0.5.1.x builds with a soname of: libcelt051.so.0.0.0
<G> which doesn't conflict with /usr/lib/libcelt0.so.0.0.0
<G> upstream has done all the work that I can see to not make the two conflict
<imbrandon> that seams feaseable to do and i can help with some general package and even maybe a bit of lib pacaking issues, but we're gonna have to enlist another MOTU/Core-dev/DD more familiar with the specifics of this situation, my first instinct is to find a (set of) pacakge(s) that do this same type issue that have a relitively active maintainer to pick his/her brain a bit
<imbrandon> ( if anyone is reading this log and knows of such a person/package set feel free to speak up hehehe )
 * G goes and has a look in apt for such possible packages
<imbrandon> G: are you upstream for the other project or just packaing/intrested in it
<imbrandon> wow lets see how many diffrent ways i can typo packing tonight
<imbrandon> lol
<G> imbrandon: quite interested in it
<G> I actually worked a quite a bit with it in a previous job
<G> imbrandon: not as many as I've forgotten sudo in front of aptitude or mispelt debuilder I'm sure :)
<imbrandon> G: btw if you need a sponsor for uploads after this is all streight poke me , havent seen your IRC nick arround so i'm assuming your currently not a MOTU or Have PPU ( since the package dosent exist yet )
<G> I'm a newbie
<G> I've already got 2 down :)
<G> in a PPA
<imbrandon> and i dont mean just tonight , anytime, imbrandon@ubuntu.com or lp:~imbrandon has my contact info but i'm on IRC tons
<G> so, we've got libxml++1.0-dev & libxml++2.6-dev
<imbrandon> and its my prefered contact method , email being second
<imbrandon> G: looks like a good place to start, who is listed as the maintainer
<G> Ubuntu Developers
<ScottK> imbrandon: I disagree about specifying 1.0.  No source/format means 1.0.  Anyone who thinks that can be reliably changed in on crack.
<ScottK> Specifying is just busywork and encourages the crazies.
<imbrandon> also just curious, does upstream ( as far as you know ) going to be doing further releases ( easp security updates ) for the 0.5.x branch , this can be a big factor in if we should actualy persue this path further
<G> imbrandon: that I'm not sure about
<G> imbrandon: however...
<G> imbrandon: any security fixes for it can be obtained in conjuction with Red Hat
<imbrandon> ScottK: well i more ment if the package is being updated anyhow, not a special delta/upload just for that AND you specificly want it 1.0 not just "i dont wanna do the work to update to 3.0 right now"
<imbrandon> ScottK: but i see your point
<G> so security fixes will be available
<ScottK> imbrandon: Not specifying source/format = 3.0 means you don't want 3.0.  That's sufficient.
<imbrandon> G: good, thats good news, packages that would be known not to have a ( esp security ) support path arent really suitable for inclusion in the repo IMHO
<imbrandon> ScottK: true, i guess i was just over thinking it
<G> so yeah, it should pass on a security sense
<imbrandon> kk, was just a thought , figured i'd mention that before we got too far
<ScottK> imbrandon: Not really.  the dpkg maintainers started out with that idea, but I think they've calmed down now.
<imbrandon> ScottK: :)
<G> imbrandon: okay, well what I might do is get a package in my PPA and see if I can find the person that really looks after libxml
<imbrandon> G: yup, and rember this is all just sugestions based on my past experince as a ubuntu developer, please dont hesitate to "call me" on something if somethign i say seems wrong, and this way is by FAR not the only path to follow, just trying to get ya the path of leaste resistance, and yes a PPA to start off is probably a good idea ( maybe even a linked bzr branch with the packaging so others ( like me ) can help out now and then with a branc
<G> I think I'll leave learning BZR to tomorrow :)
<imbrandon> also looking at other ( smaller ) sets of packages might yeild a bit of good info too, not just one example, that way you dont accidently model after something that just a quark/workarround in that particular package set
<imbrandon> G: yea this isnt a one day thing, just getting the process started will likely be a few days minimum
<imbrandon> but once the basics are there and the policy is clear on what needs to be done it will go much faster/easier, and later updates will be MUCH easier
<G> yeah, I used to do some Debian packaging in about 2005
<G> so a bit is coming back to me, but it's changed quite a bit as well :)
<imbrandon> plus you might find you actualy like packing and do some other packages in your spare time in the future :) the MOTU/Ubuntu-Dev team(s) are always looking for help even if its limited
<G> yeah, sounds like what I want to get into again
<G> imbrandon: FWIW, end goal is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/500385
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 500385 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] SPICE" [Wishlist,In progress]
<imbrandon> yea and one thing to note too as much as we are very very very much like debian packaing wise, policys might not always be 100% ( or even close ) to the same, so the documention for the technical aspects of packing IMHO are more plentful if you look for "debian" guides etc  and a little deeper on the "why's" of things, the policys for inclusion/updates/uploads/maintainers/etc etc etc ( the non strictly technical stuff ) you should learn/loo
<G> and the two packages I've rolled so far are in dev-nigelj/ppa
 * imbrandon looks at the bug 
<imbrandon> G: yea even if you dont "get into" it full time , its something fun to know how to do and be able to help out with now and then as time permits
<G> imbrandon: yeah agreed
<imbrandon> plus makes filing useful bug reports easier ( and your morelikely to get a positive response/fix ) if you know at least a bit behind the secenes stuff
<imbrandon> G: just curious, are all 3 of those "packages" listed part of the same upstream or at leaste same upstream team ?
<imbrandon> ( again just trying to get a better overall picture )
<imbrandon> also are you "Liang Guo" or are you working with him/her ( the person that filied the debian ITP "intent to package" )
<G> imbrandon: qpixman & qcairo are (effectively) forks from the same upstream as SPICE, celt is xiph
<G> nope, no idea who Liang Guo is
<imbrandon> G: i mean the ones listed on the linked LP bug quote "There are probably 3 packages needed - vdesktop, spice client, spice server"
<G> oh they are the same upstream
<G> spice client & server are sub packages fromthe same source
<G> vdesktop is a second source
<imbrandon> G: ok then, the very next thing we need to do before going much further ( going to re-read the ITP to make sure its upto-date and he is still active with it ) is contact Liang Guo, he filed and ITP for it in Debian and if he packs it in debian it will sync to ubuntu "sutomatic" but its generaly a bad idea to have one package in ubuntu and one in debian both based on diffrent packaging ( keeps long term maintance to a minimum )
<imbrandon> and if its packed in debian and packed diffrently in ubuntu ( but has the same "result" or accomplishes the same goal ) generaly the ubuntu package will be dropped in favor of the debian one
<imbrandon> and we dont want to waste work/duplicate work in that way if not nessesary
<imbrandon> G: if you dont mind whats your LP id so i know when i'm looking at your comments/bugs pertaining to this ( if you dont mind me asking )
<G> imbrandon: yeah, the ITP has been inactive since it was filed Dec 09
<G> imbrandon: dev-nigelj
<imbrandon> kk
<G> (Nigel Jones)
<imbrandon> G: well dec-09 isnt really considered that long in Debian terms , so we need to be 100% certain, sometimes things ( annoyingly ) move a bit slower over there
<imbrandon> lets atleaste touch base with him, i can draft the email and cc you and the debian ITP bug if you wish
<imbrandon> i have done similar in the past
<ScottK> That's the right thing to do.
<G> imbrandon: yeah, would be interested
<imbrandon> ( i'm assuming "him" no offence if its not , bad habbit )
<G> (I had a look at his site, it is a him)
<imbrandon> G: :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I see there's no reply on the ubuntuone ITP?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: nope, nor to a second email i sent to him too, and he is accepted me on jabber but i never see him online
<ajmitch> possibly just a little busy at the moment, who knows
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i'm thinking about sending one more email to that ITP being a just a little more direct
<imbrandon> but not overbearingly
<imbrandon> since we know he is atleaste semi active
<ajmitch> best not to be annoying
<imbrandon> right, not annoying, just a kinda "followup" since its been , what 2 weeks atleast
 * imbrandon would neede to go back and look at the date 
<imbrandon> s/neede/need
<ajmitch> may 3
<ajmitch> so ~ 2 weeks
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i did have one more lower level package that is a requirement of some of the *ubuntuone* packages that i filied an ITP for that dosent currently have anything depending on it in debian and would block some of the other stuff, mind looking over my package job and being my debian sponsor for it ( possibly co-maintain it too if you so wish )
<ajmitch> imbrandon: happy to
<imbrandon> bascily its just a slightly modified ubuntu package ( minor cleanups and policy bumps etc ) i'll get the source/dsc reasy later this evening and shoot ya an email ( use you @ubutnu one ?? )
<imbrandon> ready*
<ajmitch> either that or @debian.org
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> you deb one is ajmitch at , correct ?
<ajmitch> yep
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> i'll probably use that one since its going into debian, unless you feel strongly otherwise
<ajmitch> nope, I prefer to use debian addresses for debian stuff
<imbrandon> kk
 * imbrandon wishes to have a @debian email address one day, my goal is by summers end, lets see if i can hold to it
<imbrandon> G: ok i'm going to draft that email to the ITP and cc you/me in it, i'll ping ya back in here in a few so you can watch for the email
<imbrandon> no need to reply or aything, but you might pay attention to the contents/thread as it will set the stage on how we proceed officialy ( you can still get the practice and possibly pre-work done in your PPA , it will be good to point the ITP there too if you get something fairly stable policy wise there )
<imbrandon> aned help work out possible unknown/unforseen conflicts before they hit a wider audiance
<imbrandon> and*
<imbrandon> G: btw welcome to the ever fun ( no sarcasim intended ajmitch / ScottK , lol ) world of ubuntu maintaince :)
<ScottK> imbrandon: I wouldn't have guessed you intended sarcasm.
<G> imbrandon: if it's anything like Debian/Fedora I'm prepared :)
<imbrandon> G: many many similarities with debian for sure, and we try to work as closely with/in their system as possible to limit the "man power" needed to long-term maintain the Universe, 16000+ packages in universe is alot to do for the unbeknown to many small team of dedicated ACTIVE motu's
<imbrandon> if i had to guess i would say about ~40 ACTIVE motu's max at a given 90 day "cycle", maybe less, so any help is always aprecieted , even just small amounts, and its a HUGE plus if you strive to do things "the right way" even if its gray/means more initial work
<imbrandon> but that number is totaly just made up by me, i wouldent even know where to get that metric
<imbrandon> just an semi-uneducated guess
<G> wow, I thought there would be more
<ScottK> Many contributors aren't MOTU yet and have their work sponsored until they are.
<ScottK> We get ~75% of our packages unmodified from Debian.  That helps a lot.
<imbrandon> yea many people do, iirc there are about ~60 members of the MOTU team on LP with upload rights, but at any given time a few are inactive for any number of reasons , either long term due to burnout/other or just short vactaion type breaks
<imbrandon> but yea as ScottK a TON of work also comes from non-MOTU's ( yet ) like your self that do something and get it sponsored by people like ScottK / myself / ajmitch or a plenthora of others ( although more of that is always welcome too )
<G> now I know the right time to ask for new package endorsements in REVU :)
<G> bbs, going to grab a coffee
<imbrandon> i _try_ to be a jack of all trades ( and end up inevatibly being a master of none ) when it comes to ubuntu development , but that allows me to work on many intresting packages/projects and helps me personaly so i dont get burned out as easy ( change is good for me ) , and there is almost constantly a need for "sponsors" both MOTU and Core-dev and a jack-of-all is well suited for that too since even if he/she dosent know the correct way for
<ScottK> G: Actually we generally prefer new packages to come in through Debian since you can take closer owership of packages that interest you there and it minimizes the maintenance burden here.
<fabrice_sp> crimsun, re 568619: TBH, I totally forgot about it, so go ahead (I saw you had a debdiff)
<ScottK> It's also generally easier there since there are so few of us.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, what do you think about bug #531973 ? Do you know if there is any plan to get back the -mpi packages in boost?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531973 in boost-defaults "[UNMETDEPS] libboost-mpi-dev has unmet dependencies in Lucid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531973
<imbrandon> G: yea REVU is ok in theory, and if there were more strictly Ubuntu volenteers it would likely be more viable , but as it stands its generaly an under-utilized tool because as ScottK said we like to work inside debian as much as possible unless its something that is TRUELY ubuntu specific, but that is a very rare case
<ScottK> It's technically accureate, but we don't provide the mpi packages.
<ScottK> I'll comment in the bug.
<fabrice_sp> ok, so my proposal to delete the -mpi-* packages from boost-defaults is right then
<fabrice_sp> You also have bug #582420
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582420 in boost1.42 "Please package boost-mpi and boost-mpi-dev" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582420
<imbrandon> G: the Debian equivilant of REVU is the "Mentors" program ( google the debian wiki ) at http://mentors.debian.net ( or .org, not 100% check the link ) and #debian-mentors on OFTC, dont feel we're pushing you there but its generaly a good idea to know it exists
<imbrandon> etc etc etc
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: yes.
<fabrice_sp> ok. Thanks!
<ScottK> Even better it means you can be TIL boost-defaults an not me.
<G> back
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> ScottK: for some reason noone really wants to touch boost
<G> imbrandon: yeah, they changed that around shortly after I finished
<G> it was similar but they revamped it a bit
<ScottK> and yet we do anyway, don't we.
 * ScottK goes off to bed.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, TIL?
<ajmitch> fabrice_sp: Touched It Last
<ajmitch> in other words, you're responsible for it for eternity
<fabrice_sp> oh :-)
<fabrice_sp> boost-defaults is quite easy: it's only a package that wraps the boost packages, so not so complicated to maintain :-)
<fabrice_sp> and it's main, so someone will need to upload it :-)
<ajmitch> we'll let you have the TIL on boost1.42 as well if you want
<fabrice_sp> hmm, let me think a bit about it.... :-)
<G> haha
 * ajmitch touched boost1.40 last, but it's redundant in maverick
<fabrice_sp> you're lucky: 1,42 is default in Maverick :-)
<ajmitch> yes, the patch I'd stuck in 1.40 should be in 1.42
<ajmitch> since I grabbed it from upstream SVN
<fabrice_sp> lucky you :-)
<G> imbrandon: I'm going to guess most of the virtualization work is been done in Debian not Ubuntu directly
<imbrandon> G: i would assume that too, as is _most_ major kernel work, but i would need to verify that
<imbrandon> gnight ScottK
<G> oh wow, all the chromium/mozilla daily builds hit PPA at the same time? :P
<imbrandon> fabrice_sp: i can upload if your talking tonight, if not i would poke ScottK  as he is more familiar with it
<imbrandon> ( boost-defaults )
<ajmitch> thought as was said, it's a tiny package, nothing really to worry about
<fabrice_sp> imbrandon, cool ! I'm trying to fix some FTBFS in packages that uses it, so that would be great :-)
<fabrice_sp> very tiny: only a debian directory :-)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: :)
<G> imbrandon: btw, if I wanted to supplement my packaging with patches (I'm thinking FTBFS) whats the right way of going about it
<imbrandon> fabrice_sp: sure, np, i'm mostly IRC and Triaging stuff tonight anyhow, might poke a merge or two later, so i ahve time
<imbrandon> have*
<G> imbrandon: I'm guessing packages in Ubuntu aren't exactly owned by anyone?
<G> based on what I'm seeing and Maintainer = motu in the debian/control files
<imbrandon> G: correct so any MOTU/Core-Dev/Contributor with a sponsor could theroyeticly update/pacth the package, although see the above talk about TIL , _most_ atleast ping the person that touched it last(tm) to make sure its "ok" although that happens far less in Ubuntu than in Debian ( due to general policys )
<fabrice_sp> G, exactly: ubuntu is team maintained, even if the TIL rule apply :-)
<fabrice_sp> too slow :-)
 * fabrice_sp stil wakes up...
<imbrandon> G: correct, there is a wiki that explains the Maintainer field in Ubuntu, we have a very diffrent policy than debian but it works well imho ( as does debian policy for their release cycle / dev style )
<imbrandon> and the TIL isnt a "rule" or "policy" per-se , its one of those courtsy things most of us try to follow, but not 100% set in stone for Universe packages
<imbrandon> kinda just one of those things you pick up form hanging out in here
<imbrandon> from*
<fabrice_sp> it's not really a rule, right, but it's really useful as the last uploader should know a bit the package, and you could avoid uploading something bad
<ajmitch> and for merges, it avoids duplication of effort
 * fabrice_sp remembers uploading a fix to a FTBFS that was normal
<fabrice_sp> yeah
<ajmitch> since the last uploader may have spent time already getting something prepared
<imbrandon> but if you have a solid patch/update to a package and the last person to touch it isnt readily available / or unresponsive ( this term is relitive and applies diffrently to debian and ubuntu and even certain packages in each too , another thing to just "catch onto" ) dont hesitate to get it sponsored ( or later when a MOTU upload it ) 9/10 the TIL person will be greatful , esp if you did the due diligance to ping them AND the change is sane
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<imbrandon> bascily the MAIN reason IMHO to ping the TIL person ( and again just my opinion ) is they likely are intimate with the package and can spot potential problems with a proposed change easier than just any ol' MOTU/Core-Dev
<imbrandon> and/or may have been working on other changes localy ( bad habbit ) that could be uploaded at the same time
<ajmitch> in semi-unrelated news, merging changelog by hand gets a bit tedious
<imbrandon> but bzr pacakge branches ( or git in debian ) alieve alot of that latter problem
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe, arent there tools for that , like mom
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it's bdeing done by hand because LP *still* isn't updating properly
<imbrandon> G: by allowing the TIL / psudo-maintainer to commit changes to bzr when they might not be 100% ready for an upload and/or dont warrent an upload by them selfs
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ouch, isnt that a debian but though ( in the generated Sources{,.gz.bz2} ) ??
<imbrandon> s/but/bug
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yes, which breaks mirroring
<imbrandon> G: but alot of this is just general ubuntu-dev guidelines , dont get overwelmed by the specifics just yet, me and other sponsors will help you with that part, mostly concentrate on the technical aspects of the packages and the rest will fall into place over time
<imbrandon> esp if at first you just plan on touching this small subset of packages
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i wonder ... if it would be sane for LP/Canonical to "mirror" the canoncial Debian archive ( i'm sure they do already ) and then re-generate the Sources{,.gz,bz2} for just that internal mirror that LP uses to do the bzr branches of debian packages
<imbrandon> i guess it would depend on the ETA to a fix in debian too, no use in doing all that work if it will be fixed relitively soon
<imbrandon> or if the signature/gpg mismatches would break other things even if it was internal only and only for the bzr imports, not say like buildd's
<fabrice_sp> ajmitch, just use meld :-)
<ajmitch> fabrice_sp: or just stick the new debian revision on top of the ubuntu changelog, and then add a new revision for the merge...
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hahahah sounds like something i would do , shhhhh
<fabrice_sp> meh, that's not fun!
<fabrice_sp> :-)
 * imbrandon has never done that .... *looks arround*
<ajmitch> imbrandon: given that it's what a merge should do anyway
<imbrandon> G: did you say you had some "dirty but working" packages of the modified 0.5.1 rerelease ? are you gonna put them in your PPA soonish ? i'd like to poke your initial job of them
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yea i thinks its sane to do that, but the KDE team in general wants *ALL* changeslog entries preserved
<imbrandon> not really needed IMHO, but meh
<G> imbrandon: they are in PPA, but are stuck waiting for all the dail browser builds :)
<G> https://launchpad.net/~dev-nigelj/+archive/ppa/+packages
<imbrandon> G: kk, yea i dident nessesarly mean this minute, but i will grab them "soonish"
<ajmitch> imbrandon: adding the debian revisions on top of the current ubuntu changelog preserves all revisions
<imbrandon> great
<G> imbrandon: you should be able to dget the .dsc file though :)
<ajmitch> since it means I'm just adding 1.2.14-{5,6} on top of an already merged changelog
<imbrandon> ajmitch: but not in order does it, or am i thinking about what you said wrong, i might be just visualising it wrong
<ajmitch> you're probably thinking about it wrong
<imbrandon> yea, likely
<ajmitch> the debdiff that comes out of it looks right, at least
<imbrandon> i'm thinking about cases like where debian is two or 3 revisions behind ubuntu ( same upstream version ) and then the DD/DM "merges" the ubuntu changes into the package and increments the -X revision but only add's that changelog entry, not all the previous ubuntu change log entries, so that it can be merged back into ubuntu with say one ubuntu delta left, well if it was upto the KDE fellas ( and i'm not saying they are wrong , its just "me
<imbrandon> see what i mean, or was i clear as mud
 * ajmitch needs some alcohol to understand that one
<imbrandon> hehe so say i have gentoo_0.1-2 in debian and gentoo_0.1-2ubuntu3 in ubuntu, the DD "merges" the ubutnu all the revisions into gentoo_0.1-3 , but dosent add the Ubuntu changelog entries, instead adds something like "merged ubutnu revisions X,Y and Z" as the -3 changelog entry
<G> imbrandon: when is the DIF?
<imbrandon> when it comes time to do gentoo_0.1-3ubuntu1 KDE best practices are to add the gentoo_0.1-2ubtunu{1-3} changelog entries back in the changelog where they *should* appear , as well as obviously the new -3ubutnu1 changelog entry
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you're assuming that ubuntu changes are going into debian, rather than being ubuntu-specific
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
<imbrandon> G: i'm not 100% certain this cycle, it should be on the release schedule wiki, one sec i'll look and link so you can have a refrence
<ajmitch> looking at that, in 5 weeks time
<ajmitch> assuming that the schedule isn't changed
<fabrice_sp> imbrandon, AFAIU, it would be ok, as you will use 0.1-2ubuntu3 changelog as bases, paste the 0.1-3 debian entry and add your 0.1-3ubuntu1 on the top
<fabrice_sp> so it would contain everything (or I am missing something :-/ )
<imbrandon> G: yea that link, and as ajmitch said, it sometimes is adjusted a little, and this cycle its even more likely to be adjusted because of the shortened 10.10.10 release goal
<G> right
<ajmitch> fabrice_sp: that's exactly what I did
<imbrandon> fabrice_sp: correct, but it would be just as correct IMHO to just add the 0.1-3ubuntu1 changelog entry leaving the other dropped like debian
<imbrandon> ( changelog entry, no chnages them-selfs )
<fabrice_sp> dropping entries in the changelog is not the way I've been teached :-)
<fabrice_sp> but I see your point: if all Ubuntu changes have been adopted, what is the point of keeping the old changelog entries?
<imbrandon> G: but as long as you check that page ( i would say weekly ) you should have a good idea of the general Freeze dates because as they change that page is generaly kept upto date fairly accurately
<G> imbrandon: great thanks
<G> imbrandon: saw your bug entry so was curious
<fabrice_sp> DIF is only when the packages stop being imported auomatically: you can still request a sync with a bug report
<imbrandon> fabrice_sp: well more like if debian dropped the changelog entries no real need to specificly go back and add them as long as the changes are actualy applied and they are summerized in the changelog where the DD merged them
<imbrandon> but again, thats just my thought, i really dont know about "best practice" in that situation and the KDE Ubuntu says otherwise
<imbrandon> KDE Ubutnu Team :)
<imbrandon> G: yea, i wanted to update the Ubutnu bug before i sent the ITP reply email since I am refrencing it. just so eveyone is 100% clear on the intentions and no ones feelings get steped on
<ajmitch> imbrandon: what are you trying to hijack today?
<imbrandon> sometimes a "hostle" takeover of a ITP ( even via Ubuntu ) isnt looked upon nicely , and just adds unneeded tension
<imbrandon> ajmitch: nothing myself, helping G ( as a mentor ) take over/help with the redhat vnc/nx clone/replacement
<G> ajmitch: debbug 560721 (Spice)
<ajmitch> talk about a confusing name
<imbrandon> called "Spice" , not heard of it till tonight, but looks like a cool concept even if there are 100000 other things that have a similar goal
<imbrandon> like NX/VNX/X11 Remote/RDP etc
<imbrandon> VNC*
<G> imbrandon: it's actually used for virtualization
<G> low bandwidth sound and video transfer
<ajmitch> the name is confusing because there's a circuit simulator already in debian called spice (package name ngspice)
<imbrandon> only virtualization ? or just mostly/targeted twords ? admitidly i only read a small fraction of the sites homepage
<G> imbrandon: targeted towards, but there is nothing stopping other implementations
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ahhh like the old falcon prblems when Seveas was working on getting Falcon in Ubuntu/Debian and so was the Falcon programing Language/Compiler
<imbrandon> G: ahh kk
<imbrandon> G: i'm sure as you get further along in the process i'll inevatibly pickup more bits of info about it, heck i might even use/help pack it with ya if i get the itch ( i wouldent count on it though as i normaly touch alot of things and only very few maintain totaly or even partialy myself on a long-term basis , thus trying to help you along and not just saying "oh i'll package that for you", lol )
<G> imbrandon: not expecting it on a gold platter :)
<G> I'm happy to do the grunt, just getting it into a Ubuntu concept is what I'm having trouble with
<imbrandon> actualy i think konversation ( no defaunct KDE3 irc client ) , apt-mirror ( i'm also 1/2 of upstream ) and libvisual/libvisual-plugins ( purely out of selfish reasons because no one else wanted to update them and i enjoy using them ) are really the only packages i keep "under my belt" in Debian/Ubuntu
<imbrandon> G: totaly understood, its alot to take in, as the bits fall into place other things that arent explicitly explained will make more sense too i'm sure, its been so long since i was new to ubuntu its hard to rember but iirc thats how it was for me
<imbrandon> and i had a few hearty souls like ajmitch, Riddell, crimsun, and StevenK around when I started to help me down the path your starting ( my first "fix" was to make kbfx [defaunct in KDE4] work , long long ago ).
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> and holy sh*it that was darn near 5 years ago, does not seam NEAR that long, more like 1.5 years or soemthing to be very honest
<ajmitch> you're old :)
<imbrandon> being more active at sometimes more so than others
<imbrandon> ajmitch: if i'm old your ancient :)
<imbrandon> lol j/k
<ajmitch> quite true
<ajmitch> now I must run off & catch a bus home
<imbrandon> not age wise, but round these parts ;)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ttyl
<imbrandon> ajmitch: you've been here pretty much since the inception of MOTU havent ya ?
<imbrandon> or close
<imbrandon> G: TONS of things have changed over the years, people, policy, workflow, etc. dont be afraid to adopt the workflows etc to your "style", in the end the main thing that matters is a stable package that is well maintained ( within reason ) and that it follows current policys where feasible/required
<G> imbrandon: thanks
<imbrandon> not tooooo much is set in stone, and new ideas/sugestions are always welcomed. you might also check out the #ubuntu-classroom channel and wiki as sometimes there are package maintance "classes" held , and other intresting things where you can quiz an "instructor" realtime and the logs are made public for others to learn from later too, some of it may be a bit basic for ya if your familiar even with 2005ish debian packing, but a good place t
<imbrandon> not everything in there is development related, but there is generaly somewhat of a schedule posted somewhere on those wiki pages
<G> yippee! spice builds :)
<imbrandon> :)
<G> well, I've worked out the BRs
<imbrandon> G: what virt platform is it targeted to , i'm guesing Xen since it was intialy started/maintained by redhat
<G> imbrandon: qemu/KVM
<G> It's actually from Quramnet (brought by RH) that wrote KVM
<imbrandon> and last question before i go RTFM myself on the project upstream website, does it work with other platforms like a {Free,Net}BSD, Darwin, Windows, or other Guest OS's ?
<G> errr Qumranet
<G> there is a Windows SPICE Client (I think Mac too)
<imbrandon> i've seen the name in passing on the web, dont know much about them, i'm mostly an end user when it comes to Virtualzation like OpenVZ, KVM, or Zen ( linode rocks ), at work/home i tend to use VMware ( Server or ESXi ) , yes yes evil I know, that has a built in RDP "console" server
<imbrandon> or on the off chance qemu-* for some ( often failed ) attempts at semi-native cross compiling for PPC/Sparc/Arm{el}
<imbrandon> havent really done even that though since the PPC port of Ubuntu was dropped from offical status, lack of enough tuits i guess
<imbrandon> G: ok ITP mail sent, you should get a CC soon and it should also show up as a reply to the ITP bug too
<imbrandon> my outgain mail is a tad slow, so it might be ~20 minutes
<imbrandon> outgoing*
<G> btw, how can I cancel a PPA build?
<G> made a big boo-boo
<hyperair> G: upload a new one. quickly.
<hyperair> G: oh you can also delete it.
<G> hyperair: I'll try the upload method, sounds less intrustive :)
<imbrandon> moins hyperair
<hyperair> moins imbrandon
<imbrandon> G: if you upload a new one make sure to incrment the version, i *think* the PPA will puke if you upload the same version even if its diffrent technicly
<imbrandon> if you dont want to increment it, then wait till it "dies" and delete it
<G> imbrandon: I've already fallen for that trick :)
<hyperair> imbrandon: more like delete it, then wait for it to completely die.
<imbrandon> hehe
<G> ahhh PPA queue is up to 3 hours now :)
<imbrandon> G: it will likely fluctuate this early in the cycle alot are doing the same as you, also i've personaly noticed that time to be a bit "off" sometimes it says "1 hour" and builds 10 minutes later, and other times it says "30 minutes" for 6 hours
<imbrandon> :)
<G> imbrandon: as there are 60 jobs and a lot of them are xulrunner/chromium/etc I'll believe the est
<G> imbrandon: also, it originally quoted an hour, and an hour later I realised my mistake :P
<G> and it only had built x86_64
<imbrandon> i think the same person that wrote the code to esitime the buildscore/buildtime must have been on the Microsoft team for Windows download/file copy dialogs, hahah j/k no ill intended if that particular dev is in here ;)
<imbrandon> estimate*
<G> ahhhh, there are still 37 mozilla builds in the queue
<imbrandon> i've doubed things that the time fluxuates greatly ( in both directions ) like that based on "Windows Time" , heh, bad i know
<imbrandon> G: good thing mozilla builds fairly quickly, and a FTBFS would make it even quicker :P ( not that i hope thier dailies are broken )
<G> imbrandon: yeah, I guess at least it's not OO.o :P
<imbrandon> hahaha exactly
<kobrien> :( packaging ain't going well
<kobrien> does cdbs not have access to path?
<imbrandon> kobrien: your debian rules should , like $(PATH) , or PATH:=/usr/bin:$(PATH)
<hyperair> imbrandon: that shouldn't be necessary. the PATH should be set properly before debian/rules is called
<imbrandon> hyperair: right, was more of a theroy example of what could be done, should have clarified that
<hyperair> imbrandon: amending environmental variables generally doesn't work very well with make.
<kobrien> imbrandon: I see. It can't seem to find a particular jar when packaging a java app. Think it's a path problem.
<hyperair> imbrandon: oh whoops, env vars seem to work fine, but not stuff passed after "make"
<hyperair> kobrien: the error?
 * kobrien boots up dev machine
<kobrien> been bugging me for days
<kobrien> while it boots, I'll say it's a java app and I haven't had any luck in #ubuntu-java
<kobrien> no one answered
<hyperair> try #debian-java =p
 * kobrien facepalm
<kobrien> should of tried that
<imbrandon> kobrien: yea #debian-java , or if you give us the error we can take a crack at it ( although i have never touched a java pacakge , and only barely a few java non-web apps )
<kobrien> No supported regular expression matcher found: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.tools.ant.util.regexp.Jdk14RegexpRegexp
<kobrien> I'll ask the debian guys too
<kobrien> a quick google will tell me to install ant-optional and apache-ant-regexp, I did and no effect
<kobrien> I should point out my jdk is sun-6
<G> imbrandon: uh oh, run into a brick wall, GPLv2 + OpenSSL without an explicit exemption, upstream time :)
<imbrandon> G: fun fun
<imbrandon> G: I ran into that problem with a package a few years ago , never a fun thing because you dont know how upstream will react
<imbrandon> G: hopefuly positively
<imbrandon> kobrien: can you paste the complete build log to say pastebin ?
<G> imbrandon: well thankfully... this is Red Hat and I can point to one of their docs that says OpenSSL isn't compatible with GPL :)
<imbrandon> so i have a bit of context
<imbrandon> G: true true, not just some single guy with barely buff time in his friends garage coding ;)
<imbrandon> bad bad stereo type :) lol
<G> actually, they've relicensed to LGPL
<G> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/spice-devel/2010-April/000264.html
<kobrien> imbrandon: sure thing
<kobrien> will do another time...gotta run out for a few hours
<imbrandon> kobrien: np, kk
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: question how does one get a new package into the next release ?
<eagles0513875> the packages that have reached their eol are mysql administrator and query browser
<eagles0513875> they have been replaced with mysql workbench
<eagles0513875> but query browser and administrator are still in the repos for lucid
<imbrandon> eagles0513875: the easiest way is to get it accepted into Debian ( via say mentors.debian.net ) before DIF
<eagles0513875> is there an irc channel for debian mentors
<imbrandon> and then just have them conflict/replace the outdated packages
<imbrandon> eagles0513875: #debian-mentors on OFTC ( irc.debian.org ) , although its quite in there sometimes, if you need help and cant find it in there feel free to poke us too
<imbrandon> or both ;)
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: there is one on freenode but its an invite only channel :(
<imbrandon> eagles0513875: yea , a leftover from when debian officialy used freenode probably
<eagles0513875> ahhh
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: can you explain to me why going via upstream to get the obsolete packages replaced
<ajmitch> as well as that, there are existing mysql-workbench packages at http://people.debian.org/~nobse/mysql-workbench-oss/pool/main/m/mysql-workbench-oss/ but not uploaded to debian yet
<imbrandon> eagles0513875: well its not so much to get the obsolete packages replaced but more to get the new replacement packages IN
<eagles0513875> ajmitch: ahhh ok
<imbrandon> that has the side effect of removeing the old ones
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: ajmitch just pointed out the link above that mysql workbench hasnt been uploaded to debian :(
<eagles0513875> ajmitch: btw thanks for that info
<eagles0513875> ajmitch: thats not even a good version
<eagles0513875> 5.2 is almost out
<eagles0513875> and they are no longer gonna provide support for 5.1
<ajmitch> no, but they were done a number of months ago
<imbrandon> eagles0513875: yup, if you care for it, you might email that person ( *should* be nobse@debian.org iirc ) and offer to help
<eagles0513875> what was the irc channel imbrandon of debian
<imbrandon> eagles0513875: it would be a good possible sponsor too
<eagles0513875> what do you mean
<imbrandon> the mentors ? irc.debian.org #debian-mentors , and http://mentors.debian.org
<imbrandon> or .net , lemme look
<eagles0513875> im in there
<eagles0513875> debian.org
<eagles0513875> hehe
<imbrandon> ahh yea http://mentors.debian.net
<imbrandon> anyhow i mean that to get them in debian you will need a "sponsor" to upload your packages
<imbrandon> unless you are a Debian Devloper
<imbrandon> or Debian Maintainer in come cases
<imbrandon> some*
<ajmitch> fwiw, work on mysql-workbench packages is being done in the pkg-mysql svn repository, last commit was 6 days ago
<imbrandon> eagles0513875: in reality what that means is you can offer nobse soem help and possibly link him updated packges based on his initial work, and he MAY be your debian sponsor and upload those to Debian
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: gotcha
<imbrandon> i cannot speak for him but that looks like the correct path to get the results you want IMHO
<imbrandon> eagles0513875: if you have no luck with that route in the next month ( 4 weeks ) start pushing for having you package put into ubuntu only ( the last week before DIF )
<imbrandon> but not before then IMHO
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: gotcha
<eagles0513875> well there already exists the package for 10.04 from mysql themselves would it need to be repackaged
<imbrandon> ugh wtf, iirc just informed me that the server ( auxilliary webserver for brandonholtsclaw.com subdomains ) has no space left on /
 * imbrandon goes to investigate
<imbrandon> s/iirc/irssi
<imbrandon> ( it runs on said webserver )
<G> imbrandon: is there anyway an author can relicense code without having to push a new tarball out? (I don't think so)
<dholbach> good morning
<eagles0513875> morning dholbach :)
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch, hi eagles0513875
<imbrandon> G: ummm I dont think so, well maybe technicly, but I would think to be clear and pass DFSG and Ubutnu guidlines for inclusion it would need a new ( or at leaste repacked, ewww ) tarbal
<imbrandon> ajmitch or dholbach might be able to be more clear on that if they have run across it before
<imbrandon> heya Baron dholbach :P
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: emailed the debain mysql list
<imbrandon> kk
<dholbach> G: I don't think so
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: would the existing workbench package from mysql need to be repackaged with the appropriate ubuntu naming convention im guessing ?
<imbrandon> eagles0513875: yea it might hit debian legeal too, they would definately give ya the awsner ( maybe not the one ya want , lol )
<imbrandon> eagles0513875: not repacked, just renamed if the name isnt correct
 * ajmitch would prefer using the existing package in pkg-mysql's svn repository
<dholbach> G: what we've done before is: if an upstream forgets to add the license text as LICENSE to the tarball, but it was clear which license it was under, then we let upstream know and add the license text just to speed up the process to get it into ubuntu
<imbrandon> dpkg is smart enough top extract it to the correct dir
<imbrandon> s/top/to
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: well ill have to keep you informed of the response
<eagles0513875> ajmitch: i used the one thats prepackaged and it works just fine
<G> btw, Debian's policy is still GPLv3 & OpenSSL don't mix right?
<imbrandon> eagles0513875: yea and see ajmitch mentions its in pkg-mysql's svn too ;)
<imbrandon> G: no idea
<imbrandon> G: re: licences
<eagles0513875> G: and anyone whose interested http://www.opensource.org/licenses <---all open source licenses listed here can also submit your own license for review and possible acceptance
<ajmitch> eagles0513875: wb.mysql.com doesn't appear to have source packages listed there, unless I'm missing it?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: whats the diffrence between FeatureDefinitionFreeze and FeatureFreeze ? thats a new one on me since i've returned
<eagles0513875> ajmitch: give me sec will link ya
<ajmitch> imbrandon: feature definition freeze is "By this date, all features with updates to be landed in main for the release must be named and acked by the ReleaseTeam."
<ajmitch> imbrandon: just click on it on the schedule :)
 * imbrandon facepalms hypertext is a wonderfull thing
<eagles0513875> ajmitch: http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/5.2.html <---scroll down and choose where it says select platform
<ajmitch> yes, I don't see any source packages on there, unless the .tgz contains it
<eagles0513875> ajmitch: usually sources are zipped in this case .tgz
<eagles0513875> they do that to decrease the download size
<ajmitch> I know that, but do they contain the debian or ubuntu-specific packaging?
<imbrandon> source, but not "debian source pacakage" is what he was refereing too i'm assuming
<eagles0513875> ajmitch: naming convention for ubuntu isnt followed but if you look there is a choice for ubuntu that they have there
<ajmitch> ok, I've grabbed the .tar.gz & checked - it does have some debian packaging info, but could use some work
<imbrandon> nice, debpacking in upstream, always fun, even when your the upstream making the mistake :P
<ajmitch> yeah :)
<eagles0513875> ajmitch: let me see what upstream decides to do
<eagles0513875> as they have 5.1 waiting to hit the repos but thats no longer being supported and updated 5.2 is almost ready to become generally available
<ajmitch> my karma is dropping again, I need to do moar uploads
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe me 3
<eagles0513875> and i need to get on the bandwagon and get into helping out
 * ajmitch just uploaded 1, needs to be a few more
<eagles0513875> packaging for now i guess
<G> hmmm this is going to be fun :S
<eagles0513875> G:
<eagles0513875> what is
<G> this Licensing issue
<G> deviced that I better check before I leap for joy that LGPL & Openssl is okay
<G> Looks like it is based on http://osdir.com/ml/linux.debian.devel.legal/2002-04/msg00022.html
<eagles0513875> G: did you see the link i posted earlier about a listing of all open source license available
<G> yep
<G> but but it doesn't really touch compability between licenses
<eagles0513875> gotcha
<imbrandon> room went quiet ;)
<eagles0513875> im here lol
<eagles0513875> programming atm hehe
<imbrandon> G: are all those pacakages on the SPICE website gplv3 or ...
<G> imbrandon: so, package requires running 'sh autogen.sh'
<imbrandon> G: if its a git checkout and/or upstream was lazy in making the tarbal ;)
<G> for now I've got:
<G> override_dh_auto_configure: ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr
<imbrandon> s/git/svn,git,bzr,other vcs/g
<G> imbrandon: lazy tarball creation :)
<imbrandon> k
<G> imbrandon: GPLv2/soon to be LGPL, then the others are a mix of compat open licenses
<imbrandon> ok i have to list each one, i'll grab the tar's
<G> imbrandon: qpixmap = custom free (with retention of notice)
<G> imbrandon: qcairo = MIT/LGPL
<G> (dual license)
<imbrandon> qpixman ?
<G> errr sorry qpixman not map
<imbrandon> ;)
<G> you won't believe how many times I've done that :)
<G> imbrandon: so whats your thoughts on overriding dh_auto_configure?
<imbrandon> go ahead and do that for now, it will work and i'll poke arround to see if there is a "cleaner" way
<imbrandon> other than slapping upstream upside the head
<G> I thought about doing it as a quilt patch, but that made diff.gz as big as orig.tar.gz
<imbrandon> heh , yea
<imbrandon> btw what timezone are you in, its like 330am for me :) ( i'm a night owl alot though )
<G> imbrandon: NZ +1200
<Laney> overriding that target is fine and common
<imbrandon> ahh
<Laney> just make sure to clean up in the clean override
<imbrandon> moins Laney
<Laney> hey hey
<G> Laney: yep, I've also got an override_dh_clean
<G> Laney: Kia Ora
<ajmitch> G: you're from NZ also?
<G> ajmitch: yep
<ajmitch> I should have seen, you were in #ubuntu-nz earlier today
<G> always have been, except for when I was living in Brisbane, but we won't talk about that :)
<ajmitch> just not one of the crowd saying 'morning' ;)
 * ajmitch is in dunedin, though it seems most of the nz channel is in wellington
<G> well I'm a JAFA
<ajmitch> it can't be helped
<G> agreed
<imbrandon> hum why do i even read ubuntu-devel-discuss anymore, it just seems that as soon as one "remove package X from default" thread winds down or dies the next starts up ...
<imbrandon> and Ryan Oram aka Mr. infinityOS seems to be behind starting the last few ...
<Laney> I don't even bother to read that ml any more
<mirsal> Hey there, could anyone check if I got the SRU stuff right on these: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php-imagick/+bug/556469
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 556469 in php-imagick "PHP Deprecated: Comments starting with '#' are deprecated in /etc/php5/cli/conf.d/imagick.ini on line 1 in Unknown on line 0" [Undecided,Fix released]
<mirsal> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php-mcrypt/+bug/540208
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 540208 in php-mcrypt "deprecated comment in mcrypt.ini" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<ScottK> For a minute there I thought PHP was deprecated, but my hopes are dashed.
<ajmitch> ScottK: can I file a removal request?
<ScottK> I wouldn't mind.
<ScottK> I understand since drupal is broken with php 5.3 ATM, it's pretty useless anyway.
<ajmitch> I thought it wasn't broken, but coming up with the deprecation warnings
<ajmitch> which can be ignored by changing php.ini
<G> ouch looks like there is a memory leak somewhere in udev/libvirt land
<G> "LEAK SUMMARY: definitely lost: 53,994 bytes in 681 blocks & indirectly lost: 339,538 bytes in 10,053 blocks"
<G> hmmm any udev gurus around?
<G> for reasons I've put in the bug I suspect that lp#571093 is a udev bug
<G> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/libvirt/+bug/571093
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 571093 in libvirt "multipath + libvirtd eats away more memory over time" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Rhonda> I'm puzzled by bug #528957 being set to Fix Released for libsdl1.2 (Ubuntu) with a package in PPA? Is that proper?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528957 in libsdl1.2 "mouse button clicks not detected in windowed mode" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528957
<Rhonda> ajmitch: Is the Fix Released really proper for that?
<Rhonda> I always thought that's for when the package hits the regular pool?
<ScottK> Rhonda: No.  In a PPA doesn't count for fixed.
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: Hi there! Can you sponsor a package for me in sid?
 * Rhonda dances on ajmitch's nose. :P
<Rhonda> bilalakhtar: Depends. :)
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: Atleast you could point out errors?
<Rhonda> Still depends. Without further informations on which package, wether it's a new upstream release or even a total new package I can't tell you if I do find the time (soon enough) for looking at it.
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: Why is there such a long time for packages to get approved to go into debian?
<Rhonda> Because the ftp master job for the NEW queue processing is an extremely unthankful job in many senses that most people like to avoid. Lack of manpower -> slow processing
<Rhonda> Thankfully Tolimar seems to have a thick skin and does an extremely great job in recent times.
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: I mean that the DDs are very selective and lazy
<Rhonda> Uh?
<Rhonda> Accusing others doesn't help getting sympathy for what you want to achieve, you know â¦
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: So many RFS keep coming in debian-mentors mailing list, but one barely gets replies
<Rhonda> About "lazy", there still is no "maverick" on packages.ubuntu.com.
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: I know that. I completely agree that you can't help me. I am not blaming you, but all the DDs
<Rhonda> A mentors job is also not very fruitful. Actually I even regret to have advocated a certain person for becoming a DD.
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: and that person is carstenh
<Rhonda> I can't help you because you still haven't told me what package you would want to get into sid but instead entangle me into a meta discussion. :D
<Pici> I don't think this is a constructive discussion.
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: no, I'm not
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: But a few days ago, Rhonda said that he/she *regretted* to have advocated you
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: and you just ensured that I don't sponsor anything from you. no she did not, reread the log please.
<Rhonda> bilalakhtar: http://lug-owl.de/~frankm/dies_und_das/tbbt_S01E02_The_Big_Bran_Hypothesis_Sarcasm.png
<jpds> Rhonda: packages> That's likely a djpig thing.
<bilalakhtar> Sorry, carstenh and Rhonda for my false remarks
<Rhonda> jpds: â¦ as sole person. It usually is a very sane and good idea to avoid such single point of failures. And no, I didn't call djpig a failure with that statement, but the general concept. He seems to be extremely busy these days.
<jpds> Rhonda: As we all are.
<Rhonda> jpds: The thing is that he seems to be busy enough since about half a year or maybe even more.
<Rhonda> And exactly for that reason such tasks shouldn't have only a single person to be able to do them.
<Rhonda> jpds: Just for the record, I did do my part of the job, the packages.git repository has the required changes since 5th of May available. They just need to get pulled.
<Rhonda> jpds: http://git.debian.org/?p=webwml/packages.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu-master
<carstenh> Rhonda: just for the record, there wasn't even sarcasm that he possibly could have misunderstood in what you said a few days ago: 2010-05-11 15:10:39< Rhonda> carstenh: I regret to have advocated someone else, definitely not you. :)
<Rhonda> carstenh: Could have missed that line. I usually apply the rule of doubt instead of accusion.
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: sorry for my bad memory . I regret.
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: :)
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: Reading the recent backscroll it appears to me you are being more combative than we prefer in this channel.
<ScottK> Accusing people of being lazy because they don't chose to volunteer in the way you would prefer is really inappropriate.
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: agreed. regretted
 * Rhonda . o O ( Still no clue wether bilalakhtar was talking about gconjugo, liboauth, python-tweepy, gurlchecker - or all of them )
 * sebner pats Rhonda 
 * mok0 pats sebner
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: Good guess. I was talking about liboauth. But looks like u r busy
<sebner> mok0: :D
<mok0> Hi sebner, any exams coming up?
<Rhonda> bilalakhtar: I'm busy understanding what you would want from me. For a quick check on the gurlchecker debdiff you just wrote "New upstream release" into the changelog but seem to have switched from cdbs to quilt, from compat 5 to compat 7, and potentially a lot of more things. The debian/changelog isn't just cosmetically, it has to list what you changed in the package.
<Rhonda> Given that there are such basic issues in this quick debdiff scan I'm not too sure wether I want to take a deeper look into the other packages, sorry.
<sebner> mok0: not the next few weeks, still some stuff todo though, everything fine on your side? =)
<mok0> sebner: yeah, just busy as usual (work)
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: Fine, will change that. I think you are busy, and should NOT trouble you more.
<Rhonda> Please don't assume what you can't know. I am grown up and able to state myself when I'm busy. :)
<Rhonda> bilalakhtar: For the liboauth copyright file, it doesn't make much sense to note down the exact URL for the download - that would mean you have to change the file with every single new upstream version. The directory index or similar is more than enough.
<Rhonda> For liboauth-dev.install, I would cut down the man part to usr/share/man - there might get additional files dropped in at a later stage and you would miss them.
<Rhonda> Why start off with compat 5 for a new package, just curious? Why not 7 right ahead?
<Rhonda> It's still debateable wether debian/source/format containing 1.0 is actually needed, just FYI. This is buxy's sole standing and he was told by loads of people that this is a waste effort to want to go the path of requiring that.
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: I prefer 5 in packaging libraries
<Rhonda> For what reason? :)
<Rhonda> Your debian/watch file should use the sf.net redirectory, please read man uscan again.
<Rhonda> â¦ or I am mistaken here, checking.
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: this is a special case. liboauth doesn';t use sf to store files, bu t web hosting instead. see sourceforge.net/projects/liboauth/files
<Rhonda> Ah, alright. Then the rest of the remarks are still valid, though.
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: If I don't use 1.0 in d/s/f then a lintian warning comes
<Rhonda> And that lintian warning is an error that the lintian maintainer admited. :)
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: Is there a real problem with compat 5?
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: So should I use 3.0 (native) or what?
<Rhonda> Is there a real reason why you prefer compat 5?
<Rhonda> No, 1.0 is totally acceptable, but debian/source/format isn't required or needed for 1.0
<sebner> Rhonda: lintian says something different :P
<Rhonda> sebner: 15:35 <Rhonda> And that lintian warning is an error that the lintian maintainer admited. :)
<sebner> oh
<Rhonda> i.e. it will get removed with the next lintian release again.
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: Ok, I am moving to compat 7. removing the d/s/f and coming back in 15 mins
<sebner> Rhonda: pff, it should be changed to: use 3.0 ftw!
<Rhonda> sebner: For no good reason, and potentially breaking stuff? Sorry, I don't buy that. But that is a discussion that doesn't fit here, me thinks.
<sebner> Rhonda: no good reason? 3.0 >>> 1.0, the real reason against it is the back-portability to lenny, dicussion about ubuntu development (tools) fit here ;D
<Rhonda> Oh, versionitis? Just because 3 is bigger than 1?
<Rhonda> Try to debdiff a v1 openoffice.org and then convert it to v3 and do a debdiff again - and take a look at the "speed".
<Rhonda> 3.0 >>> 1.0 isn't a reason, it's a number comparison.
<pixie79> when writing debconf files is there a way to automatically remove all template questions and answers from the db for a package without having to specify each one?
<Rhonda> pixie79: Isn't that what db_purge does? Hmm, it removes the entries alltogether me thinks?
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: test build in chroot is working. uploading now
<pixie79> Rhonda: i thought that, but then when i tried running my config file again it did not prompt for the questions
<Rhonda> pixie79: What exactly do you try to accomplish?
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: How do I solve a lintian warning "configure-generated-file-in-source config.log"
<Laney> remove it on clean
<Rhonda> You remove it in the clean target?
<Rhonda> s/\?//
<pixie79> Rhonda: i am making a looping config script as part of the install as i need to make a config file that uses many of the same lines several times but with only a few words different dependant on user entered feedback
<mirsal> <ScottK> For a minute there I thought PHP was deprecated, but my hopes are dashed. <=== Haha !
<mirsal> You made my day ^^
<bilalakhtar> Laney: thanks
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: beginning to upload
<Rhonda> ScottK: Oh. ajmitch did mark it as Fix Released because it's fixed in maverick, not because he offered a package in his ppa. At least that's what it looks like on second thought. :)
<ScottK> That's appropriate then.  Fixed in the development release counts as fixed released.
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: You could see the fixed package now on mentors.debian.net
<mok0> persia: yesterday, you posted a snippet of code that implies you can make a powerpc sbuilder on an amd64 platform. Is that indeed the case?
<persia> Yep.
<persia> Mind you, powerpc isn't perfectly emulated.  Some builds work, some fail for reasons that I don't entirely understand.
<mok0> persia: ... but the binaries run on the native platform?
<persia> My experience with using powerpc and armel schroots on amd64 is that it can be useful to troubleshoot some build issues, but ends up producing some number of false negative results.
<persia> Yep.  This is not cross-compilation.
<mok0> That is way cool
<persia> qemu has two ways it can work: "user" mode and "system" mode.  In the latter, one emulates an entire system, and runs an OS in there.  In the former, one just uses qemu as an interpreter for foreign binaries.
<mok0> persia: I see... and the schroots are done via qemu these days?
<persia> In lucid, lool added the necessary binfmt-misc hooks in to qemu-kvm-extras-static so that this just worked (for the set of stuff qemu can handle), and I used this to make pbuilder-dist and mk-sbuild be able to use them.
<mok0> Ah, so it IS new :-)
<persia> Well, there's some decision code.  If the schroot being constructed would require foreign-arch support, qemu-debootstrap is invoked rather than normal debootstrap (qemu-debootstrap is a wrapper around debootstrap that does the right things)
<bilalakhtar> Looks like rhonda is away
<persia> But the on-disk format is exactly the same: qemu just offers a means to run foreign binaries through binfmt-misc.  This is the same mechansim that allows us to run Windows programs in wine or Java as native executables.
<mok0> persia: ok, here goes, I am reconstructing all my sbuilders
<persia> There is a binary file in the chroot that handles the translation (to avoid needing to break the chroot), but foreign chroots work just fine on native.  So if you have a chroot on a USB stick, you can move it between different machines of different architectures, and it does the right thing (mostly)
<mok0> persia: I am impressed
<mok0> persia: so this is why the arch is now always baked into the name
<mok0> name of the logical volume that is
<mok0> persia: ugh, where does mk-sbuild put the chroot if you omit --vg=xxx ?
<ScottK> New Jersey.
<Pici> Eh?
<mok0> ScottK is still drunk after UDS
<sebner> lol
<ScottK> No, it's not from UDS.
<mok0> :)
<mok0> Ah, /var/lib/schroot
<lfaraone> One of my packages built successfully on armel, i386, and powerpc, but ftbfs on amd64. It builds locally, so I requested a rebuild. Is the issue reported in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/48697334/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.php-imagick_2.1.1RC1-1build3ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz transiant?
<mok0> lfaraone: Looks like your package depends on a broken one
<mok0> lfaraone: libmagickcore2-extra
<mok0> lfaraone: is broken for that arch
<lfaraone> Odd. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/amd64/libmagickcore2-extra says it's built
<lfaraone> Unrelated, does bug 540208 seem too trivial for SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540208 in php-mcrypt (Ubuntu) "deprecated comment in mcrypt.ini" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540208
<persia> lfaraone: Note also that armel+i386+powerpc are 32-bit arches, so if something isn't ported to 64-bit it would demonstrate that behaviour (not in this case, but something to consider).  As long as we have ia64, it would FTBFS there too, although it sounds like ia64 may go away in the future if not enough people maintain it.
<ScottK> It'll be around for at least one more cycle anyway
<geser> lfaraone: php-imagick will FTBFS again on AMD64. It succeeded on i386 because it got build with the old graphviz.
<geser> lfaraone: the problem is: libmagickwand-dev -> libmagickcore-dev -> libgraphviz-dev -> libcdt4 AND libmagickwand-dev -> libmagickcore2-extra -> libgraphviz4 AND libcdt4 conflicts libgraphviz4 => boom
<geser> I assume imagemagick needs a rebuild with the new graphviz to resolve this
<pixie79> hi all, i am having issues with a package i am making that it is not prompting for questions when installed via debconf. When doing a reconfigure or a reinstall it just uses the old values and not the new ones, any ideas?
<pixie79> it would appear that it is just taking the dedaults each time, but also nothing is being written to the database, if i do a debconf/show and look for my package it is not there
<lfaraone> soren: I've proposed a branch for merging into VMBuilder which unblocks VirtualBox support. (a three line fix, but it had rended the vbox component unusable) Should I wait for it to be merged upstream, or is it okay to apply it as a local patch in Maverick?
 * lfaraone wants to SRU this fix sometime soon. 
<lfaraone> geser: okay, so the solution would be to just rebuild imagemagick with a dummy ubuntu1 upload?
<ScottK> lfaraone: If it's otherwise unchanged in Ubuntu, use build1
<lfaraone> ScottK: okay. it already is at ubuntu1, so I'll just go with "ubuntu2", unless I should use "ubuntu1build1" :)
<ScottK> lfaraone: ubuntu2 in that case.
<geser> lfaraone: ubuntu2 is correct
<imbrandon> anyone know of a package that does a dpkg-divert on a binary from another package to provide a wrapper for it off the top of their head that i can kinda poke at as an example ?
<lfaraone> DktrKranz: would you have a chance to look at sponsoring http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/groundcontrol/groundcontrol_1.6.5-2.dsc?
<lfaraone> DktrKranz: (to debian, that is)
<ScottK> imbrandon: I think hardening-wrapper does that.
 * kees looks up
<soren> lfaraone: If you think it'll be valuable to put it in maverick at this point, feel free. I'm working on an SRU for Lucid, though, and expect to do another one in a couple of weeks.
<soren> lfaraone: Your patch would likely be included in the next one.
<kees> imbrandon: generally, diversions are to be avoided, but in some horrible cases (*cough*hardening-wrapper*cough*) there isn't much choice.
<kees> imbrandon: generally coordinating use of alternatives is the better approach.
<soren> kees: Hm... Why couldn't hardening-wrappers use alternatives?
 * ScottK hears kees scream in the distance.
<imbrandon> ScottK / kees : thanks
<kees> soren: mostly because it needs to be a wrapper, and it needs to always win.  i.e. it isn't an alternative.
<imbrandon> kees: understood, but this is for a work related pacakage that wont be in the archive and is working arround a bug in a binary only deb via another package
<imbrandon> kees: so yea not ideal but still trying to do it as clean as possible given the circumstances ;)
<kees> soren: but many things that first appear to be in need of diversions are better implemented with alternatives.  in my case, it wasn't so.
<kees> imbrandon: righto
<kees> soren: that said, hardening-wrapper is deprecated in favor of hardening-includes, which doesn't use diverstions, but requires the maintainer actually make changes to their build process.
<soren> kees: Yeah, I'm trying to think up a way to do the job with alternatives... I can't :)
<imbrandon> in this particualr case the binary only program calls /sbin/shutdown directly ( not even by $PATH , i mean directly ) so i need to divert shutdown on those systems to do the right thing when that package calls it via a /sbin/shutdown wrapper ( luckly the binary only program runs as its own user so this will make it fairly easy and a bit cleaner in the wrapper, just do my stuff if its that user and anyone else gets the real /sbin/shutdown is
<kees> owchy
<imbrandon> yea, that was my inital reaction, the next one was to send the devs of said program a big bag of s**t , but then i settled on this solution
<kees> I would ... binary-edit the program to call /sbin/owchdown instead.  :P
<imbrandon> lol
<kees> and then write owchdown to do the right thing.
<kees> who says not having the source means you can't change a program's behavior?  binary-edits and LD_PRELOAD can get you a long way.  :)
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> morning
<imbrandon> moins ajmitch
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i'm working on 2 hours sleep today , lol, gonna crash hard tonight
<ajmitch> Rhonda: yeah, the fixed/in progress thing for libsdl1.2 looks a bit messy, I should have closed the ubuntu task in the upload to maverick :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: awesome, I hope it's not due to wow :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hah , not this time, stayed up too late doing some python learning/hacking
<fabrice_sp> Anyone interested in sponsoring bug 531973?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531973 in boost-defaults (Ubuntu) "[UNMETDEPS] libboost-mpi-dev has unmet dependencies in Lucid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531973
<fabrice_sp> imbrandon, you were volunteering this morning, right? :-D
<ajmitch> ScottK will be, I'm sure :)
<fabrice_sp> lol
<imbrandon> fabrice_sp: yea but i cant at the moment, if no one has done it for you in about ~2 hours i can then
<fabrice_sp> just trying: thanks anywaay :-)
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'm relatively certain I don't care much.
<imbrandon> no worries most of the time i would be happy to but i'm knee deep in some binary crft atm
<imbrandon> cruft*
<ajmitch> ScottK: it was worth a try, I'm getting ready for work
<ScottK> Let's set up a rotation to take turns pinging imbrandon on a 4 - 6 minute interval to help him with his binary cruft productivity.
<ajmitch> sounds good
<imbrandon> lol
<ScottK> OK.  That was mine.  You're next.
<imbrandon> <detaches screen> j/k
<Rhonda> ajmitch: Anyway, thanks for taking care of it!
<ajmitch> even if I am horribly slow :)
<fabrice_sp> Hey Rhonda: as a DD would you mind having a look at http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/a/aptoncd ? It's an update to an existing package and my usual sponsor (bddebian) is missing
<Laney> we have a new channel for this
<Laney> #debian-ubuntu @ oftc
<fabrice_sp> oh, really?
<fabrice_sp> ok: I'll check there then
<Laney> I don't know if there are many DDs there yet though
 * Laney eyes DktrKranz directhex Rhonda
<Laney> :)
 * fabrice_sp was thinking about exchanging sponsoring favours :-)
<directhex> snuh?
<Rhonda> fabrice_sp: Oh, Barry is your usual sponsor? Sweet. :)
<Rhonda> Laney: Oh, didn't know!
<Laney> it was a UDS thing
<Laney> hopefully it takes off and facilitates sponsoring in both directions
<Rhonda> So that's behind the derivates frontdesk that our DPL was talking about? :)
<Laney> yes exactly
<fabrice_sp> Rhonda, YES :-) that's a nice idea, because I'm still lost (this is the only package I maintain directly in Debian)
<Elbrus> bug 577728 needs a rebuild of tuxcmd for lucid. what is the appropriate way to handle that bug? Assigning specific people?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 577728 in tuxcmd (Ubuntu) "[lucid] tuxcmd: Access violation on i386" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/577728
<Elbrus> (I filed the bug myself and can confirm that a rebuild helps).
<Elbrus> creating a debdiff for a binNMU could be done of course, does that help?
<fabrice_sp> Elbrus, follow a normal SRU process
<Elbrus> fabrice_sp: thanks
<arand_> Ok... so a package where "patch -p0 < debian/patches/bitlbee.conf.diff" is declared in  debian/rules. How does one go about patching that with something else?
<arand_> (and keep it SRU-friendly)
<crimsun> a number of ways: you can modify debian/patches/bitlbee.conf.diff (the interdiff will show up in the debdiff), or you can add a new patch and call patch again in debian/rules.
<crimsun> both nasty, really, but kinda unavoidable in this context
<Laney> you're patching bitlbee?
<Laney> I just tried to use it and it didn't let me get on msn ;)
<Laney> ah, fixed in 1.2.7
<arand_> Laney: Yea, I'm trying out the SVN diff
<arand_> Laney: I've got new version for karmic in my PPA which worked for me
<arand_> Is there any good way to automate the packaging of a specific patch for several releases, other than actually doing it on each of them?
<Laney> bzr merging might help
<arand_> Mah, means I have to learn bzr :( high time, but still )
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-20
<arand_> crimsun: I'll think I'll go with adding it to rules, since adding it to a diff which was meant to address confiuration only, seems a tad more evil.
<ajmitch> \sh: it's a little confusing having both zendframework & zend-framework now, what can be done to sort out this duplication?
<G> imbrandon: oh, I got a reply about that licensing issue
<ajmitch> a positive reply, I hope?
<G> ajmitch: yep, Red Hat Legal provided an additional license for the code to link to OpenSSL
<G> well, exception
<ajmitch> great
<G> now, the question is, it was provided via e-mail
<G> he's stated that the source tarball will be updated in due course, do I just take an RFC compliant copy (with headers) and dump it somewhere, or what?
<persia> Some folks include the mail in debian/copyright.  others wait until upstream actually releases the new tarball.
<persia> The exact set of things that is required depends mostly on the archive-admin who happens to end up reviewing the package, as it's a bit of a fuzzy area.
<G> I think the e-mail should keep the archive-admin happy tbh
<imbrandon> G: yup i saw the email, thats great news
<imbrandon> G: is going afk a few hours, bbiab
<G> imbrandon: no problem
<ScottK> G: The archive admin decides what makes them happy.
 * ScottK finds joy in rejecting packages and reducing what we have to maintain.  Let me know if there's anything in New you want me to review ...
<ScottK> ;-)
 * ajmitch hears that ScottK may be open to persuasion in some forms of currency
<ScottK> ajmitch: Of course.  I'm a businessman.
<ScottK> That won't get me to accept something that shouldn't be accepted, but I can be reprioritized.
<G> ScottK: it's not in NEW yet, I need a debian sponsor first (iirc imbrandon said he's not get a DD)
<G> ScottK: and it won't be in NEW until I can get other packages sorted
<G> ScottK: but if you don't mind, I'd love to ask a theory based question :P
<ScottK> G: Certainly.
<G> ScottK: okay, so one of the packages I'm work on, is licensed under GPLv2, and uses OpenSSL, I e-mailed Red Hat Legal (copyright holders) who have confirmed it should have had the exemption, have provided a suitable exemption status, and a commitment that the next tarball will include it, if I copy the e-mail + Headers to debian/copyright, would that keep you happy?
<G> s/status/statement
<ScottK> Probably.
<ScottK> The key is probably the tense involved.
<ScottK> It needs to be clear that it does have the exemption and they just neglected to document it in the code.  If they "will give the exemption" at some future time, then no.
<G> ScottK: the statement given is very similar to the wget exemption
<ScottK> They need to say it does have the exemption.
<G> ScottK: yeah thats what he's done
<ScottK> As long as the tenses are correct it's probably fine.
<ScottK> (I did look at wget)
<G> ScottK: okay, sounds like it'll be good
<dholbach> good morning
<the-dude> if I want a package from debian unstable into debian, would it be better to ask for a sync request or do I need to upload it to revu?
<fabrice_sp> the-dude, if the package has not been modified in Ubuntu, it will be automatically synced
<the-dude> fabrice_sp: it doesn't need to be modified afaik
<fabrice_sp> it's a new package?
<the-dude> new to ubuntu, not new to debian
<fabrice_sp> ok: it will be atuomatically synced, then
<the-dude> any indication when that will happen?
<fabrice_sp> it depends on the archive admin, and when they will sync new packages
<fabrice_sp> so if it does not happen before DIF, ask again to see what happened
<the-dude> do all packages need to be build on the latest ubuntu?
<fabrice_sp> yes
<the-dude> ok I could try to build it on maverick, just to be sure
<fabrice_sp> would be good, yes :-)
<fabrice_sp> otherwise, it will FTBFS, someone will need to fix it
<the-dude> I can fix that ;)
<fabrice_sp> Have to go now. Bye ;-)
<the-dude> aight thanks :)
<DktrKranz> Laney: I trued to join #debian-ubuntu, but I get kicked out. Is it me, or don't I like you? :)
<DktrKranz> lfaraone: mind repasting link? :)
<bilalakhtar> lfaraone: Are you there/
<bilalakhtar> DktrKranz: Are you a DD?
<DktrKranz> bilalakhtar: yup
<bilalakhtar> DktrKranz: Are you free to review a package?
<DktrKranz> bilalakhtar: a NEW one?
<bilalakhtar> DktrKranz: yeah
 * bilalakhtar expects the reply to be 'no'
<DktrKranz> now I'm @work with limited resources, but I can have a look at it this evening
<bilalakhtar> DktrKranz: Ok, for your info, the package is liboauth and can be found on mentors.debian.net
<bilalakhtar> I have cleaned the package for lintian errors, warnings, P: tags, etc
<DktrKranz> mind dropping me a mail about it, so I remember it?
<bilalakhtar> And also ran a test build in chroot
<bilalakhtar> ok, what is ur email address
<bilalakhtar> ?
<DktrKranz> dktrkranz AT debian DOT org
<bilalakhtar> DktrKranz: Thanks
<DktrKranz> yeah, I hate you spam!
<bilalakhtar> I know that
<bilalakhtar> something AT SPAMFREE something DOT org
<Laney> DktrKranz: on oftc?
<DktrKranz> Laney: yup
<Laney> weird, works fine for everyone else :(
<DktrKranz> I'll try to change a couple of options in my bnc
<DktrKranz> I had a similar problem in the past
<DktrKranz> yay! \o/
<Laney> excellent
<Laney> now you can redirect such sponsoring requests there ;)
<hyperair> Laney: what's the issue?
<Laney> what issue?
<hyperair> "works fine for everyone else"?
<Laney> joining #debian-ubuntu on oftc
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> there's such a channel? =O
<mok0> hyperair, yep there's only one bot there :-P
<hyperair> mok0: and many more people =)
<Laney> we should promote this better
<Laney> especially amongst the people who we especially want to get their work into Debian
 * hyperair agrees
 * Laney eyes ubuntu one
<DktrKranz> Laney: btw, I also volunteered to become member of the debian-ubuntu front desk, as proposed by zack
<G> #debian-ubuntu eh?
<Laney> DktrKranz: Cool! How is it supposed to work? Like an ML which fields queries from both sides?
<DktrKranz> still not defined, we'll see that soon
<mb4_> morning
<mb4_> i have a quick question about python packaging
<mb4_> i'd like to use cdbs for it but i keeps installing libs into the site-packages dir which is not on the search path, so my package is broken
<mb4_> can someone advise me on how to fix this`
<mb4_> ?
<tumbleweed> mb4_: the debian-python community is keen to migrate everyone off cdbs, to dh7 - but that doesn't help your problem
<mok0> mb4_: you need to use python-central
<Laney> try #debian-python @ oftc
<mok0>         dh  $@  --with python-central
<mok0> mb4_: oh, sorry, you said cdbs, in that case you need to set the DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM variable
<mb4_> i just changed the rules from cdbs to dh7 and it works well with python-central
<mb4_> thanks guys :)
<mok0> mb4_: remember to specify python-central in Build-Depends
<toabctl> uupdate: new version 1.0beta3-0ubuntu1 <= current version 1.0+ds1~beta2a-1; aborting!
<lfaraone> Can somebody add me as a member of ~ubuntu-sponsors?
<toabctl> ^^ why? what does +ds1 mean?
<wzssyqa> how to write watch file for google code?
<lfaraone> toabctl: + is greater than b, apparently.
<lfaraone> wzssyqa: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/python-apps/packages/autokey/trunk/debian/watch
<toabctl> lfaraone, and what does ds mean? is this the shortcut for the dd?
<toabctl> lfaraone, i want to package a new version (upstream it is 1.0beta3).
<lfaraone> toabctl: I haven't the faintest idea.
<Laney> it means debian source
<Laney> some kind of repacking but not for dfsg-freeness
<wzssyqa> lfaraone: it seems not work
<lfaraone> wzssyqa: what package, and what is the contents of your watchfile?
<lfaraone> wzssyqa: "it doesn't work" gives me very little information to help you.
<wzssyqa> lfaraone: what you give me
 * lfaraone has to go, sorry.
<lfaraone> wzssyqa: well, you'll obviously have to replace "autokey" with your project name and match the tarball portion to the way upstream does their tarballs.
<wzssyqa> lfaraone: no matching hrefs for watch line
<wzssyqa>   http://code.google.com/p/autokey/downloads/list http://autokey.googlecode.com/files/autokey_(.+)\.tar\.gz
<wzssyqa> lfaraone: i just try autokey
<wzssyqa> lfaraone: you can have a try of it
<bilalakhtar> what is lucid-proposed?
<jpds> bilalakhtar: Where proposed fixes go before going to -updates.
<bilalakhtar> jpds: oh
<mok0> Where bugs go before they die :-)
<G> how do Debian Native packages (i.e. in debian as Version '1') get imported into Ubuntu?
<G> want to make sure my PPA version will get overridden when it gets synced
<mok0> G: just put a ~ppa1 after
<G> so something like 1~ppa1 is always less than 1?
<mok0> G: yes
<Rhonda> G: ~ means "less than everything, even the empty string"
<G> Rhonda: got it thanks
<G> mok0: thanks too
<mok0> G: you can always test these things with dpkg --compare-versions
<G> mok0: oooh, thanks :)
<mok0>  dpkg --compare-versions 1 lt 1~pp1 ||echo no
<mok0> (test that with i.e. version 1 and 2)
<G> mok0: just added that to my new list of helpful tips :)
<pixie79> hi, i am looking at creating a custom deb so that i can keep my system files the same on many servers, the only problem is that this causes the package to fail on install as dpkg declares another package owns the file i am trying to overwrite. I see i can use replace in the config file. I want however for example to just replace /etc/ldap/ldap.conf with my version but if the ldap package gets updates then this should be updated even so
<pixie79> any ideas?
<mok0> pixie79: yeah use puppet
<mok0> or cfengine
<pixie79> mok0: ok i was looking at trying to do this via deb's
<mok0> pixie79: well, as you found out, you can't
<mok0> pixie79: you can install the files with another name, and move them with some post-install magic. However, then you are in trouble if the package that owns the file gets updatted
<mok0> pixie79: puppet or cfengine is the way to go, once you get the hang, it is very easy to maintain
<pixie79> ok thanks
<G> pixie79: I'll second puppet
<MunkyJunky> Hey all - anyone know any guides or useful links on how to package a file when you don't have the original source?
<mb4_> hi
<mb4_> i've got another packaging question: if my package creates a new user, when should it be deleted? during remove or during purge?
<effie_jayx> hey all been looking fro a way to contribute these days... I checked packages with dependecy problems, but I guess that is not cool to check yeat since most dependencies are not all built yet
<effie_jayx> what would you guys recomend I do, should I focus on other things? syncs and merges or what?
<ScottK> mb4_: probably never.  If you remove the user you end up risking leaving unowned files on the system.
<Rhonda> mb4_: It's usually done during purge though because that's where the complete cleanup is supposed to happen.
<ScottK> Rhonda: I've seen quite a few puiparts failures due to this.
<ScottK> The trick is you have to ensure you won't leave unowned files on the system if you remove the user.
<Rhonda> ScottK: Then it's done wrongly - but that's no reason to not do it. :)
<ScottK> If you can do that, then purge is the time to do it.  Clearly not on remove.
<Rhonda> if getent passwd gdm >/dev/null; then if [ -x /usr/sbin/deluser ]; then deluser --system gdm; fi; fi
<Rhonda> That's from gdm.postinst, in purge mode
<ScottK> IIRC policy is not explicit about this, so it's left to the maintainer to do the right thing.
<effie_jayx> Anyone can orient me a bit? where could I help at this stage?
<effie_jayx> I tried reviews but the patches there intimidate me a bit
<mb4_> okay, i'll purge him then
<mb4_> thanks for clarifying that :)
<ScottK> effie_jayx: One thing that would be useful is looking on the Universe merges page on merges.ubuntu.com for packages that are waiting for someone who's no longer active in the project to merge them and doing it.
<Rhonda> effie_jayx: One sweet thing could also be going through the http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/mdt/all.html list with respect to what's not (anymore) in Debian and check wether those actually make sense to keep around for ubuntu.
<Rhonda> As a first thing I guess those packages that have a "ubuntu" in their version string were actually synced from Debian at some point and could make proper removal candidates.
<Rhonda> s/synced/patched/
<Laney> that have -mubuntun where m > 0
<Rhonda> Laney: -0ubuntu not?
<Laney> not necessarily
<Laney> could have never been in debian
<Rhonda> â¦ or were new upstream versiones put into ubuntu before debian had them.
<Rhonda> Isn't -0ubuntu chosen in those chases?
<Laney> right, but the point is that you can't tell just from the version number
<Rhonda> Right, I didn't say blindly go and file removals. ;)  Taking a look at the changelog is definitely required to get a better picture.
<Laney> Yeah it is, but I think that a good first target are those package versions which have definitely been in Debian
<Rhonda> Currently I'm at 50% with -0ubuntu changes about have been in debian.
 * Rhonda . o O ( â¦ out of two  *hides* )
<highvoltage> lol Rhonda :)
<effie_jayx> thanks guys, I am headed to the syncs page
<Rhonda> And another that was in Debian, aften. Or was/is that in debian-multimedia only? I am always careful when reading the name marillat â¦
<effie_jayx> sorry I am bit rusty
<effie_jayx> but I remember stuff I think
<G> btw, how long would it typically take for something like dh-autoreconf to sync from Debian, I've started using that for my packaging
<effie_jayx> Found some cool things on syncs and merges on the wiki, just thought I would post it here for referneces in logs...
<effie_jayx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<effie_jayx> and an Irc log from a training session,https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Cheater7/Lectures/Merges_080613
<effie_jayx> thanks for the heads up guys
<ScottK> dholbach: You can mark my work item about reviewing the merge documentation for sending stuff back to Debian as done.
<effie_jayx> guys soime help here... I think I found a merge that can be a sync and I am not sure yet.
<effie_jayx> https://merges.ubuntu.com/o/ontv/REPORT
<effie_jayx> the changes were related to python 2.5 as a dependency for building and otehrs
<effie_jayx> debian has removed those, I have checked the dependencies, so no need for a merge I think
<dholbach> ScottK: you can mark it as done too
<dholbach> ScottK: which one is it?
<dholbach> ah hang on
<dholbach> done
<dholbach> thanks
<ScottK> dholbach: I could have done it myself if I remembered the spec name.  Thanks.
<effie_jayx> if I see no conflicts in the REPORT file and I double check the changes in ubuntu is this fit for a sync?
<ScottK> If there are no changes left outside the changelog then it should be so.
<dholbach> ScottK: same here, it took my ubuflu-ed mind a bit longer to realise what you were on about
<ScottK> Ah, so my theory was correct.  I postulated at UDS that ubuflu would happen, but it had a longer incubation period this time and people would get sick after they were home.
<tumbleweed> effie_jayx: I agree, looks syncable
<effie_jayx> tumbleweed: I am unsure on hwat to do next
<dholbach> ScottK: yep, sconklin, czajkowski, jono, and lots of others told me they had the same thing
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Test build the unmodified package and if it builds, file a sync bug using requestsync.
<effie_jayx> I just report a bug requesting sync, attach build log and changelogs for debian and ubutn version?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: requestsync will put the needed things in the bug.
<tumbleweed> effie_jayx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<effie_jayx> ScottK: good
<effie_jayx> wow this is much more streamlined now
<effie_jayx> thanks you guys rock
<effie_jayx> one other thing.. in the changelog what should I add
<effie_jayx> before building the package
<tumbleweed> effie_jayx: it doesn't matter, it's just a local test
<tumbleweed> you don't need to add anything
<effie_jayx> tumbleweed: not my developer info either?
<effie_jayx> ok
<jetienne> q. suppose i got a .deb and would like to include it in normal ubuntu repository, what is the best way to do that ?
<ScottK> jetienne: First, you need source to get in, not a deb (those get built from the source).  The best way is to get it into Debian.
<jetienne> ScottK: ok, i got the source too
<ScottK> !REVU | jetienne
<ubottu> jetienne: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ScottK> That's the place to go for getting it into Ubuntu directly, but you may have more luck on mentors.debian.net.
<jetienne> ScottK: hmm why going thru debian is "better" than using ubuntu directly ? i mean the goal is to reach ubuntu repo, not debian oner
<jetienne> ScottK: i will read revu, just curious
<ScottK> jetienne: There are a LOT more people trying to get stuff into Ubuntu than MOTU can process.
<jetienne> ScottK: hmm ok
<ScottK> There are ~1000 Debian developers and ~150 Ubuntu ones.
<Rhonda> jetienne: The goal is to be cooperative and help free software in general, not beeing greedy and ubuntu only. :)
<jetienne> ScottK: what about ppa ?
<ScottK> jetienne: Not part of Ubuntu.
<ScottK> As Rhonda says too.
<jetienne> im not greedy, just looking at the number
<jetienne> currently just trying to sign coc is not easy :)
<Rhonda> And about mentors.debian.net, just dropping packages there is a way to have them rot - there is the debian-mentors@lists.debian.org and #debian-mentors on OFTC which are more fruitful - in addition to putting the package somewhere web accessible (that though can indeed be mentors.debian.net :))
<effie_jayx> ScottK: I see very little kde apps for merge, is it because Kubuntu devs are pretty good at keeping those at bay?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Yes.  Also for a variety of reasons we've been generally ahead of Debian on KDE stuff.
<effie_jayx> ScottK: so Kubutnu serves as a sandbox for debian in many ways?
<ScottK> Some.
<effie_jayx> ScottK: you guys rock, I have been trying to get stuff to contribute to in kubunt usince it is what I use these days, but things are clean
<ScottK> The Debian KDE team and the Kubuntu team have different sets of skills, so we benifit from each other.
<Rhonda> effie_jayx: You should rather ask the Debian KDE team about that - not sure wether they actually do sync/coordinate/communicate with the kubuntu team.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: You should join in #kubuntu-devel and ask what needs doing there.
<ScottK> Rhonda: We do.
<Rhonda> Oh, alright. :)
<effie_jayx> ScottK: I have, but not on a daily basis. It is a little dawnting to ask at times
<ScottK> As with everythin, the coordination could be better, but it's not bad.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: We're very friendly.
<Rhonda> And just because it came up on identi.ca today - is there any plans/way/effort to seperate kde from mysql again?
<ScottK> Not in the near term.
<ScottK> There are prototypes of alternate akonadi backends, but nothing near production ready.
<ScottK> (I mean even as much as akonadi is)
<effie_jayx> ScottK:  there shyness gone
<effie_jayx> :)
<ScottK> Great.
<effie_jayx> well the build failed, aparently a library is missing in the repository
<effie_jayx> I am updating pbuilder and see
<ScottK> Rhonda: I did go count and currently 8 of the 51 people in #debian-qt-kde are Kubuntu people.  That's a decent sign there is cooperation.
<effie_jayx> is it advisable to use http://mirrors.kernel.org/ as sources for pbuilder?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> archive.ubuntu.com
<effie_jayx> great
<jetienne> hmmm grumble, i can not use my epm builder to upload to ppa :(
<effie_jayx> jetienne: all you need is a changes file
<jetienne> effie_jayx: well im reading the doc... missing a lot of thing now
<jetienne> hmm  is there any estimation of the delay between the submission and the actual acceptance ?
<jetienne> ok i guess this is easier to go thru ppa at first
<effie_jayx> jetienne: acceptance is like 10 minutes
<effie_jayx> jetienne: building could take hours
<effie_jayx> depending the load on the build deamons in laucnhpad
<jetienne> effie_jayx: i suspect the human part is the longuest :)
<tumbleweed> jetienne, effie_jayx: acceptance happens every 5 minutes
<tumbleweed> launchpad.net/builders gives you an idea of the business
<tumbleweed> busyness I should say
<jetienne> ok first ppa and then trying to get in :)
<jetienne> side question: my code is rather large (350kline) and i would like to port it to 64bit. which process would you follow ?
<jetienne> not the proper channel i guess :)
<effie_jayx> I think I am having problems with my pbuilder, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/436809/
<ScottK> Wahoo!
<effie_jayx> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy
 * ScottK is no longer TIL courier.
<effie_jayx> it depends on cdbs and it does not find them
<effie_jayx> cdbs and many other packaging packages
<ScottK> That's normal.
<ScottK> What's the rest of the log?
<effie_jayx> but it does not build
<effie_jayx> let me paste the whole thing
<effie_jayx> ScottK: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/436811/
<ScottK> Looking
<effie_jayx> ScottK: what is TIL courier, if I may ask?
<ScottK> Touched it last.
<ScottK> If you were the last person to upload a package you have some moral responsiblity to mind after it a bit and merge it.
<ScottK> Courier is annoying.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Line 71 is an aptitude segfault.  That's the actual problem.
<effie_jayx> ScottK: I see, what causes it?
<effie_jayx> or is it something I should find out...
<ScottK> No idea.
<ScottK> If you look in the pbuilder config file in /etc you'll see there are provisions for alternate dependency resolvers. I'd switch to a different one and try again.
<ScottK> If you can reproduce the aptitude problem reliably then it's worth filing an aptitude bug.
<effie_jayx> ScottK: ok
<effie_jayx> ScottK: you mean /etc/pbuilder/buildd-config.sh or pbuilderrc
<ScottK> effie_jayx: pbuilderrc.  You need to look in /usr/share/pbuilder/pbuilderrc so see what you are going to override.
<ScottK> In this case it's PBUILDERSATISFYDEPENDSCMD that needs changing.
<effie_jayx> ScottK:  I am reading the pbuilder howto... one reference to gdebi, but since I use kde.
<effie_jayx> ScottK:  let me check the doc in the usr/share
<effie_jayx> ScottK: and update on the pbuilder and now it works
<effie_jayx> ScottK: but good info
<effie_jayx> ScottK: you are a hero
<effie_jayx> :)
<effie_jayx> it's been a while since my last sync... and this is getting simpler and simpler
<effie_jayx> well now it seems the patches won't apply
<effie_jayx> :S
<effie_jayx> heh
<effie_jayx> the package I am trying to test for a sync  is now FTBFS. what Should I do?
 * effie_jayx checks docs
<ScottK> Fix it.
<MunkyJunky> Hey all - is it possible to package a .sh file and a .run file into a .deb, and have the .sh file run when the user installs the .deb package?
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: possible yes. good no.
<MunkyJunky> tarzeau_: Is there a recommended way of doing it differently?
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: which software is this?
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: get the source of the software, make the debian/* stuff, build the binary and source pkg with debuild
<MunkyJunky> Teamspeak 3 client (the .run file) and a script that adds menu items and puts the right files in the right places.
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: ah so you don't have source files that need to be compiled
<MunkyJunky> Sadly, Teamspeak 3 isn't open source, so I don't have that option
<MunkyJunky> Yup
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: there's no much point packaging binary only software as debian packages
<MunkyJunky> It's more for convinience, as the Teamspeak client installer doesn't create any menu items, and is just a runable script. The idea is that this will install it and make some nicer desktop intergration
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: just create your own one-installer-shell-script file that people get
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: and make it download, install, configure it?
<tarzeau_> that's what i did for the nvidia binary driver as a init.d script before dkms came up
<tarzeau_> and now i'm picking it back up, since the ubuntu installers failed on at least 3 ubuntu installations at work
<MunkyJunky> You mean make my script download the teamspeak 3 client, install & config it?
<tarzeau_> mine worked reliably for 5 years, for like 150 machines, of about 30 different nvidia cards
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: yes
<MunkyJunky> That wouldn't make any difference - the download for the teamspeak client comes as a .run file.
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: the installer is not interactive?
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: it made sense for the nvidia-installer.run file for me
<tarzeau_> especially it needed to rebuild the kernel module everytime a new kernel came
<MunkyJunky> It's a run file that you run, which after agreeing to their licence, extracts the files to a folder, which is run by calling an .sh file.
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: it's all in a dir, like /opt/teamspeak?
<MunkyJunky> It extracts to a folder in the same directory the run file is in.
<MunkyJunky> Part of my script makes it extract into /usr/local/bin
<tarzeau_> what's your point? you have to just install it once?
<MunkyJunky> yea
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: ping
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: you're wasting your time
<MunkyJunky> How so?
<tarzeau_> you're not saving time, by packaging this thing as a debian package
<MunkyJunky> I'm not trying to do it to save time - I'm doing it so instead of having to install the .run file, then manually create menu items (which a fair few of the teamspeak users don't understand how to do) a user can instead install the .deb package, which installs the .run file and makes the menu items for it.
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: and your teamspeak thing is i386 only?
<tarzeau_> or also 64bit x86?
<MunkyJunky> i386 and x64
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: you'll have to make one all package or one i386 and one amd64 one
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: what do you want to do?
<MunkyJunky> I was going to make one for 32bit, one for 64 bit
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: create a teamspeak-version directory, put all files in there, run dh_make in it
<tarzeau_> make sure  you do a tar czf teamspeak_version.orig.tar.gz before you add the debian/ dir with dh_make
<tarzeau_> i see
<tarzeau_> put your desktop file and icon also into debian/
<tarzeau_> add the 32bit and 64bit installation into this teamspeak_version.orig.tar.gz first
<MunkyJunky> tarzeau_: Right, cheers
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: you know how to do the debian/ part?
<MunkyJunky> tarzeau_: I'm learning from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingWithoutCompiling
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: ok, if you get stuck feel free to ask again, and put your stuff on some webserver so people can look at it
<MunkyJunky> tarzeau_: Thanks for your help!
<tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: yw
<tarzeau_> anyone in here with some freetime to look at revu packages?
<tarzeau_> iulian: when will you take over modglue?
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: can you pm me or ping me when you get back need to talk to you re mysql work bench
<tarzeau_> i wish there was a way to simply transfer ppa packages to the revu repo without uploading them again
<tarzeau_> and some stats on the downloading of ppa files
<geser> tarzeau_: there is a bug about PPA stats, and IIRC one should be able to get this data through the LP API soon (in one of the next LP rollouts)
<tarzeau_> geser: i've seen that bug report, but nothing happened since then...
<tarzeau_> geser: i guess i'll put up per package stats about popcon.ubuntu.com meanwhile
<iulian> tarzeau_: I am currently pretty busy studying for exams now.  I will probably do an upload next week.
<ari-tczew> Laney: around?
<tarzeau_> yay http://gnu.ethz.ch/ubuntu-popcon/
<Rhonda> tarzeau_: Can you get co-maintained packages into the output, too?
<tarzeau_> Rhonda: i'm only using the by_maint file as source, i'd have to parse some other file listing co maintainers of the packages somehow
<tarzeau_> Rhonda: you got the source, url/do and url/index.txt
<tarzeau_> have fun :)
<tarzeau_> i thought about linking to the package pages on launchpad, but i'm not sure i know the source package links ubuntu/+source/pkg or so
<Rhonda> Where have I got the source?
<tarzeau_> but the package names are all of the binary package names
<tarzeau_> yay http://gnu.ethz.ch/ubuntu-popcon/index.txt
<tarzeau_> yay http://gnu.ethz.ch/ubuntu-popcon/do to get the files
<Rhonda> Hmm. Can't find wesnoth there?
<tarzeau_> who is the maintainer of it? some team?
<tarzeau_> 97165 wesnoth-compiled                   2     0     2     0     0 (Unknown)
<tarzeau_> 125000 packages list the package as "Unknown" - no idea why
<Rhonda> The games team.
<Rhonda> But it's not on http://gnu.ethz.ch/ubuntu-popcon/index.cgi?Debian%20Games%20Team
<tarzeau_> yes try index.cgi?Unknown
<tarzeau_> for some reason the popcon.ubuntu.com lists wesnoth and 125000 other packages as maintainer "Unknown"
<tarzeau_> i have no idea who generates the file, and why they do it with "Unknown"
<Rhonda> Ah, maybe because it has ubuntu diff in lucid?
<tarzeau_> but even then a package has a maintainer no?
<tarzeau_> there's never a reason to put "Unknown" there
<tarzeau_> every packages maintainer is known
<Rhonda> Don't ask me, ask ubuntu popcon :)
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: do you maintain packages.ubuntu.com ?
<tarzeau_> ari-tczew: the url says frank lichtenheld
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: I can commit to the codebase, I can't deploy it to packages.ubuntu.com. A single person can and that person is external to canonical and awkwardly busy for well over half a year now.
<tarzeau_> mdomsch: you package stuff for fedora?
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: If you refer to changes for maverick, I did that part - though can't deploy it, sorry. I did the best I can do in here: http://git.debian.org/?p=webwml/packages.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu-master
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: thanks
<Rhonda> The rest is some potential internal struggle in canonical it looks to me about not accepting others into the possibility to deploy changes.
<mdomsch> tarzeau_, I have several packages i maintain in fedora, yes
<mdomsch> including dkms
 * ScottK waves to mdomsch.
<mdomsch> hey ScottK
<tarzeau_> mdomsch: i've seen a bug report about the m+ fonts (ttf-mplus in ubuntu/debian). could you do something about it so it's there for fedora project people?
<tarzeau_> mdomsch: the report says something about the package should build the fontforge fonts, is that really needed?
<mdomsch> tarzeau_, I've helped get one set of fonts into fedora, but they're not my specialty
<tarzeau_> mdomsch: cool, i was so glad about dkms in karmic, however it failed with ubuntu lucid with the latest kernel for severial different nvidia modules/cards
<mdomsch> there's a separate packaging guideline for those
<mdomsch> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:FontsPolicy
<ScottK> tarzeau_: If you're having dkms issues in Ubuntu, superm1 is probably a better person to talk to.
<mdomsch> tarzeau_, if the kernel changes, and the nvidia shim doesn't, there's not much dkms can do about it itself; the nvidia kmod package would need to be fixed
<mdomsch> and yes, superm1 is the man
<tarzeau_> i see
<ari-tczew> what's the command to bzr push with link to bug report?
<geser> bzr commit --fixes lp:123456
<geser> and then push as usual
<ari-tczew> thanks
<arand> For a SRU where update-maintainer is done, what, if any, is the appropriate changelog entry? "* debian/control: updated maintainer field"?
<ScottK> No, we don't put the maintainer change in debian/control
<ScottK> control/changelog
<arand> ScottK: Ok, cheers.
<effie_jayx> easy, the patch is not needed
<arand> Is it only ubuntu-sru that may confirm nominations? Otherwise would someone mind to open hardy-lucid in Bug #581331
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581331 in bitlbee (Ubuntu) "error message while trying to use my MSN account in bitlbee" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581331
<arand> And put a priority medium-high, if you feel like it.
<toabctl> i have a package (libsynthesis) which has as version 3.5.0.5+ds1 . what stands the +ds1 for?
<tumbleweed> ds = debian source
<tumbleweed> there was something wrong with the upstream tarball (or there wasn't one)
<bobbo> evening MOTU's!
<wyatt> hi guys
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-21
<G> imbrandon: hey, let me know when you are around, spice 0.4 might be inthe impossible basket anyway
<imbrandon> G: kk i'm here but about to jump in the car, i'll be arround to chat more in about ~1.5 hours
<G> imbrandon: alright
<effie_jayx> persia: the change had been done without adding a patch system to the package, I found by checking the debian versions and the ubuntu versions of modified files
<effie_jayx> now I wonder what one does when a pacakge has been touched like this
<ScottK> If the Debian maintainer didn't add a patch system, don't add one yourself.
<effie_jayx> ScottK: ok, later the debian maintainer added the patch system with the changes from ubuntu. The changes in the source done by the ubuntu developer make the patch from the debian maintainer make the package FTBFS. then what do we do?
<effie_jayx> change the source code and make the patch from the maintainer do it's thing and then request a sync?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: In that case you need to revert the direct changes in the source and go with what Debian did.
<ScottK> Other than direct change versus patch are there other Ubuntu changes?
<effie_jayx> ScottK: no other changes
<ScottK> Then test build the unmodified package from Debian and if it builds, request a sync.
<effie_jayx> ScottK: you mean the dsc from debian? or you mean revert the changes in code and the build source pacakge and test build it
<effie_jayx> ?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: I mean the dsc from Debian.  If you are considering to ask for a sync, that's what you should be testing.
<effie_jayx> ScottK: ok
<effie_jayx> sorry for being so insisive and obnoxious with so many q's
<effie_jayx> just wanna make sure I get it right this time
<ScottK> effie_jayx: No problem.  It's how people learn.
<ScottK> It's better to ask questions if you have doubt than get it wrong.
<effie_jayx> ScottK: sure thing
<effie_jayx> this is for tomorrows post and I wanted some sense of conclusion to this
<effie_jayx> is it usual for changes to be in code, is that usual now
<effie_jayx> a year back people would suggest to have changes in code through patch systems
<ScottK> It depends.  It's not the norm, but generally we don't add patch systems where Debian doesn't have one.
<ScottK> Also now that more packages are maintained in a VCS, code is often managed that was rather than through patch systems.
<effie_jayx> right, and the debdiff would be enough patch for debian?
<effie_jayx> ahhh ok
<mase_wk> hi guys, i'm trying to create a debian package but i'm having a few issues. Lintian is reporting FSSTND-dir-in-usr usr/doc  , is anyone able to translate this into english for me please ?
<persia> If you use lintian -i it will give you a bit more verbose description of each message.
<mase_wk> awesome thank you persia
<imbrandon> G: pong
<mase_wk> persia: so in my /usr/share/<pkg>/changelog.gz i need to have package (version) , is this any different from what is in my DEBIAN/control file ? if not why does it need to be present, is that not creating the potential for the two to get out of sync ?
<persia> Um, no.
<persia> But for complex reasons.
<persia> 1) You should never modify DEBIAN/control manually: this should be constructed at build-time based on other files, most notably debian/control (note the difference in capitalisation).  DEBIAN/control gets Version: set from debian/changelog and Version never exists in debian/control
<persia> 2) /usr/share/<pkg>/changelog.gz should never exist
<persia> 3) /usr/share/doc/<pkg>/changelog.gz may be one of debian/changelog or an upstream changelog.  In the latter case, debian/changelog will become /usr/share/doc/<pkg>/changelog.Debian.gz
<persia> Does that answer your question?
<mase_wk> hmm ok , well i'm obv doign something wrong. i have writen some software (GPL licensed of course =) which for some reason other people are finding useful and i'm tryign to make it easier for them to install and Ubuntu/Debian seems to be the most commonly requested format
<mase_wk> and i'm following a packaging howto which said that i needed the DEBIAN/control file
<mase_wk> so i just made it following the guidelines as best i could
<persia> Ah.  The wonder of the internet is the lack of editors :)
<mase_wk> and now i'm trying to make it pass lintian
<persia> Could you post the URL of the guide you used?
<mase_wk> i have printed copy infront of me, url is somewher at home. i read the official ubuntu one but to be honest the hello demo app didn't really help me understand what i was doing
<mase_wk> maybe i'm just a bit thick
<mase_wk> but constructing it from scratch at least made sense.
<persia> I doubt that.  Many of the guides on the internet are flat out wrong.  The official Ubuntu guide is designed to teach folks to deal with packages done in all sorts of ways, and isn't useful at all to create a new package, unless one is prepared for significant study first.
<mase_wk> well yeh i spent about 6 hours trying to actually make a package with the ubuntu guide =)
<mase_wk> this took me 1/2 and hour but i could actually install it.
<persia> So, there's lots of ways to package.  I'd be happy to share mine (which I believe  to be easy), if you're willing to start over.
<mase_wk> sure
<persia> OK.  First step, get a release tarball of your source, and unpack it.
<persia> Second, create a debian/ directory
<persia> Third, install the debhelper package, and copy /usr/share/doc/examples/debhelper/rules.tiny to debian/rules
<persia> Fourth, run `echo 7 > debian/compat`
<mase_wk> what does that do ?
<mase_wk> the echo 7 bit
<persia> Creates a file called debian/compat containing the the character '7', a carriage return, and an end-of-file marker
<persia> This file is used by debhelper to indicate which debhelper compatibility level you are using for the package.
<mase_wk> sorry, quick question, the tarball, i've just exported from git, does the tarball need to have the contents at the root ?
<persia> It's more automatic that way, but it's not required.
<mase_wk> ok, may as well do it correctly first time
<persia> Fifth, create debian/copyright.  I like the format described at http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/
<persia> Sixth, run `dch --create` to create an initial changelog entry.  Set the package name, and version here.
<persia> Seventh, create debian/control.  The fields are defined at: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-sourcecontrolfiles
<persia> Eighth: create debian/watch  The format is described in the uscan manpage.  This is optional, but nice.
<persia> Ninth, Install devscripts and `debuild -S -us -uc` to create a source package
<persia> Tenth, using sbuild, pbuilder, or a PPA, build the package to make the .deb files.
<persia> That ought do it.  The result may need some tweaking, but as the upstream author you can do most of that better upstream rather than mangling the packaging.
<persia> If you don't have the soruce in the top-level directory, you can add --sourcedir=... in debian/rules (man dh for an example).
<persia> If you need to install extra files (manpages, etc.), it's best to do this by adjusting your build system upstream.  Often the build logs will contain useful information about what went right, or what went wrong.
<mase_wk> ok cool, thanks for your help, i'm up to doing the copyright section, but i'll let you know how i get on.
<persia> Good luck!  Feel free to ask here as you get closer to getting it ready, and want to get it into the distribution.  If you decide not to be part of the distribution, #ubuntu-packaging is also a good reasource for packaging questions.
<mase_wk> does it make a difference if the buildsystem is not GNU Make? i'm currently using phing which is very similar to Apache Ant ?
<G> imbrandon: sorry, still here?
<imbrandon> G: yup wasup ?
<G> imbrandon: this is proving to be a nightmare
<G> imbrandon: I was okay with the forks of qpixman/qcairo, but vdesktop is really a fork of qemu
<G> imbrandon: not only is it going to be a maintenance nightmare, it's going to be a security nightmare if every there are problems in qemu etc
<imbrandon> :) most new packages do, thus personaly i dont recomend them for new packagers, but its good to see what "could" go wrong technicly and policticly
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> we might be better watching it as a project and see how much becomes unforked
<G> imbrandon: plus, the devs don't publically say where their forked copy is hosted, they put to the upstream git repos which I've checked and are spice less
<imbrandon> ouch
<G> imbrandon: however I'm currently knee deep in an interesting libvirt bug
<imbrandon> maybe even doing some PPA packages in the meantime etc
<imbrandon> G: cool, anything i can help with lemme know
<imbrandon> i'll do what i can/time permits :)
<G> I could do with a SAN? :P
<G> in actual fact, going to tackle this bug
<imbrandon> kk
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: ping
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: never got a response from upstream about mysql workbench :( via mailling list
<imbrandon> hum
<eagles0513875> imbrandon: how should i proceed with getting workbench into maverick since upstream never got back to me
<tarzeau> good morning
<AnAnt> Hello, is notify-osd going to be dropped in meerkat ?
<arand> AnAnt: I wouldn't think so, why should it?
<AnAnt> arand: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue193#Advanced Configuration pop-up messages (notify-osd)
<arand> AnAnt: That's news to me... I'm not sure I trust it without further reference..
<AnAnt> arand: yeah, that's why I came asking too
<micahg> \sh: ping/poke re zend-framework :)
<persia> micahg: My recommendation would be to just fix it, rather than waiting.  it's been long enough.
<persia> As with everything else, the idea is to use Debian names (adjusting anything in Ubuntu as required), etc.
<ajmitch_> is that with the zend-framework vs zendframework?
<micahg> persia: no, that's been taken care of, \sh just has to upload the new version to maverick :)
 * persia still believes in not blocking on folks if they are apparently busy with other things
 * sebner waves at persia 
<persia> sebner?
<sebner> persia: I'm a nice person
<sebner> nah, I have a question indeed :)
<sebner> persia: my u-u-s membership is expiring but I don't need/can do anything as ubuntu-sponsors membership keeps running, right?
<persia> ...
<persia> According to https://launchpad.net/~sebner/+participation you're only an indirect member of ubuntu-sponsors.  Would you like to be a direct member?
<persia> As an indirect member, your membership will run out when your ubuntu-universe-sponsors membership terminates.
<sebner> persia: I thought the teams got merged and there is/will only be the ubuntu-sponsors team. I was wrong then :\
<nigelb> packages.ubuntu.com is not updated with maverick packages?
<persia> No, you had the idea right.  The implementation we chose was to have people join the new team if they wanted when their membership in the old team expired.  Launchpad doesn't allow us to force-merge teams.
<persia> nigelb: You want rmadison anyway, but I know the necessary bits made it into git (although they may not have yet been deployed)
<sebner> persia: ah Ic. So what's the difference between renewing my u-u-s sponsoring and officially joining u-s ?
<persia> That I'm not going to do the first unless you can demonstrate that it's a critical requirement to continuing the effort to merge everyone into ubuntu-sponsors.
<persia> s/ment to/ment for/
<geser> nigelb: it's half-broken currently as it lists maverick, but maverick doesn't work currently
<geser> nigelb: I don't know if Frank Lichtenfels is the right contact about it or not
<persia> He is, but he's been very busy lately.
<nigelb> geser: I wanted rmadison (which I forgot about) anyway, just checkign up version number
<persia> The code is prepared, but the current model requires him to pull it from the shared repo, and put it in a special place, and file an RT and wait...
<sebner> persia: heh, I'm now willing to cause extra work for you so ... :)
<sebner> *now = not
<persia> sebner: at this point the extra work is clicking the "accept" button.  I'm just not going to add anyone to the new team except if they want.  Do you want?
<persia> (hint: everyone else is doing it)
<sebner> persia: haha, /me swims with the crowd then ;D
<persia> Thanks for joining the team.  We will continue to measure your sponsoring activity and carefully log it :)
 * sebner hides
<nigelb> I forget how to query rmadison for debian. Sigh.
<persia> nigelb: -u debian
<sebner> persia: thx for the add
<nigelb> persia: Thanks :)
<persia> sebner: No no.  You joined the team.  There's lots of stuff to sponsor :)  LP does all the tracking of everything internally anyway ( and the output gets used for stuff like MoM), so don't think it's sinister.
<nigelb> If a bug is fixed in the new release of an app, do we allow backports for earlier releases or do I have to look for the particular fix?
<nigelb> Also, anyone has any clue how to dissect cvs like we do for git?
<geser> ScottK: as you merged boost1.42: boost1.42 drops libboost-graph-parallel1.42-dev and libboost-mpi1.42-dev on purpose, but libvtk5-dev depends libboost-all-dev which depends in the end on those which makes it uninstallable. Any idea how to resolve this?
<ScottK> geser: Does is actually need any of those or is it just a question of making libboost-all-dev installable?
<jetienne> *.dsc ... what dsc stands for ?
<geser> ScottK: don't know yet, I just looked at a FTBFS and why libvtk5-dev isn't installable
<arand> jetienne: description
<ScottK> geser: The two possible solutions are drop the non-existing packages from libboost-all-dev or figure out how to build the MPI stuff in Universe.
<ScottK> One of those is way easier than the other, so it'd be good to know.
<arand> jetienne: Or, debian source control ...I'm not exactly sure in fact.
<jetienne> arand: ok :)
<nigelb> jetienne: isn't it signature or something? I dont remember
<jetienne> nigelb: i was guessing "description" too. but wanted to be sure so i asked... apparently im not the only one to be sure :)
<nigelb> Debian Source Control :D
<geser> ScottK: I'll try to test the first solution in my PPA over the weekend
<ScottK> geser: Great.  If that solves it there's s patch in the sponsorship queue already.
<arand> jetienne nigelb: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-sourcepkg.html :  "Debian source control file - .dsc"
<jetienne> arand: thanks
<nigelb> arand: beat you to it ;)
<arand> nigelb: I did note that as a possibility up there â :) But I wasn't sure though.
<nigelb> arand: ;)
<jetienne> in "control", most packages priority is "optional", correct ?
<geser> yes
<jetienne> geser: thanks
 * arand is annoyed by all those .d* endings, whomever designed that must not use tab-comletion..
<nickbnf_> Could someone have a look (and possibly advocate) my glogg package? It's lintian free and has already been reviewed by jcfp. bug #575764 or http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/glogg. Thanks a lot!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575764 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] glogg" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575764
<nigelb> nickbnf_: have you thought of getting that into debian?
<nickbnf_> nigelb: yes, I've uploaded a debian version to mentors.d.net, but haven't had any news yet (http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=glogg)
<ScottK> Did you also submit a request for sponsorship (RFS) in Debian?
<nickbnf_> ScottK: yes (http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-mentors@lists.debian.org/msg68322.html), but since I got good inputs from here to improve the package, I tried here as well!
<ScottK> OK
<nigelb> nickbnf_: there are several DD's around.  Hopefully you can catch one of them ;)
<nigelb> siretart: you're part of the ubuntu burning team right? Is it possible to import the cdrdao package for me?
<nigelb> I'd like the cvs branches improted to LP.  There is a bug fix I'm trying to get in
<nigelb> Can't find it on the sourceforge cvs
<bilalakhtar> Hello, can anyone over here sponsor package python-tweepy?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Hi there! Thank you a lot! You taught be how to debianize packages, and now my first package is in! You were right "This all is part of the learning process"
 * hyperair doesn't recall the context of that quote any more
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Should I get packages into Debian or Ubuntu? What did you do to become motu?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: debian first. then sync into ubuntu.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: You did that only?
<siretart> nigelb: I can make you a member of the burning team so you can do so yourself ;-)
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: as for becoming MOTU, i just contributed to packages randomly, fixed random bugs, until the MOTUs who sponsored me got sick of sponsoring me. =D
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: oh. Contributed to packages means?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: fix bugs, sync, merge, fix more bugs...
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Unfortunately DDs are not accepting gnome-media-player. They say it has a misleading title.
<bilalakhtar> Doesn't matter, a car can never cross the river without any modifications.
 * siretart also thinks that gnome-media-player is unfortunate. that term makes me immediatly think of totem.
 * hyperair agrees with siretart 
<hyperair> a rename would be good.
<mcl0vin> arand: am here
<arand> mcl0vin: yep?
<mcl0vin> so i got the .deb
<arand> mcl0vin: (if you have karmic), just double-click it and install.
<mcl0vin> arand: am ssh'd
<arand> mcl0vin: Ah, right "sudo dpkg -i pastebinit*.deb"
<mcl0vin> cool it works
<mcl0vin> arand: now where are the docs so i can read how to get started in this business
<arand> mcl0vin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<arand> mcl0vin: Martin Owens did a very good overview drawing of the different steps in packaing: http://doctormo.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/02-what-are.png
<nigelb> siretart: that would be great!
<nigelb> siretart: I've already requested a code import, once you accept me in, I'll make the team the owner
<siretart> nigelb: what's your lp id?
<nigelb> nigelbabu
<arand> mcl0vin: And Daniel Holbach did a nice video series of som basic packaging: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2AB3B94B228B6FE1
<siretart> nigelb: welcome!
<nigelb> siretart: thank you! :)
<fabrice_sp_> geser, I'm working on vtk merge/sync from Debian
<fabrice_sp_> and also uploaded a 'fixed' boost-defaults and new vtk version in my ppa
<fabrice_sp_> but new vtk FTBFS because of boost 1.42 and python, so Im in contact with Debian maintainer to fix it so that it can be a sync
<carstenh> fabrice_sp_, Rhonda: uploaded
<fabrice_sp_> cool! Thanks a lot to both of you!
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-22
<imbrandon> evening all
<MTecknology> lfaraone: hi, how's it going?
<MTecknology> lfaraone: I had a question about your pianobar ppa - It won't install - pianobar: Depends: libfaad0 (>= 2.6.1) which is a virtual package.
<jetienne> q. is there a way to prevent dh_make from interative prompting ?
<suji> hi
<nigelb> I'm getting a build failure, can someone take a look? http://paste.ubuntu.com/437710/
<suji> In ttf-indic-fonts some fonts has bugs, i cleared that, now how can update that package?
<fabrice_sp> suji, open a bug report, generate a debdiff, attach it to the bug report and subscribe sponsors
<suji> fabrice_sp: where to do the things?
<fabrice_sp> suji, bug report: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ttf-indic-fonts/+bugs
<nigelb> suji: is your package in debian?
<nigelb> suji: if so, fix it there and it will get synced
<suji> nigelb: Already the ttf-indic-fonts debian package in ubuntu upstream, i just download the tar.gz and clear the bug in 2 fonts from that
<fabrice_sp> you can check http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=ttf-indic-fonts
<fabrice_sp> the package has been modified in Ubuntu
<nigelb> suji: the bug is fixed in debian?
<fabrice_sp> !info ttf-indic-fonts
<ubottu> ttf-indic-fonts (source: ttf-indic-fonts): Metapackage for free Indian language fonts. In component main, is optional. Version 1:0.5.8ubuntu2 (lucid), package size 8 kB, installed size 36 kB
<fabrice_sp> debian is at 1:0.5.8, so older
<nigelb> fabrice_sp: shouldn't we be giving the delta back to debian about now?
<suji> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=441901 this bug i thought to say.
<ubottu> Debian bug 441901 in ttf-tamil-fonts "TAMu fonts use wrong encoding" [Normal,Open]
<nigelb> suji: so, fix in debain first I'd say
<nigelb> and you can send the ubuntu changes back, make it 1:0.5.9 and just sync it
<fabrice_sp> nigelb, yes: we should forward the patch to Debian, if it has not already been done
<suji> but i cleared that, i correct the encoding.
<nigelb> suji: where did you clear it? in ubuntu or in debian?
<suji> just i bring the font and map the characters to their proper unicode, now am having that fonts only, from that what i do next?
<fabrice_sp> the diff between Ubuntu and Debian is quite huge
<suji> i got the source tarball from ubuntu
<fabrice_sp> and it's in main, so only a core dev can sponsor it
<nigelb> suji: right now, I'd say, get the ubuntu specific patches that are not in debian and open a bug in debian bts and send them there
<nigelb> and if you have more fixes, open in debian bts
<nigelb> once it has been fixed there, you can request a sync
<nigelb> fabrice_sp: do we have documentation for this sort of thing? If not, its high time we wrote one
<fabrice_sp> nigelb, you mean about what to do with patches?
<nigelb> fabrice_sp: yeah, sending to debian, how, when, etc
<fabrice_sp> I remember some wiki page on how to contribute to Debian for Ubuntu dev
<fabrice_sp> let me check
<nigelb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers
<nigelb> got it!
<fabrice_sp> this one, yes :-)
<fabrice_sp> in this case, the bug has been opened in 2007, and not fixed since then....
<fabrice_sp> so sending the patch to Debian may not have the effect we expect :-)
<nigelb> im pretty sure if we give them a patch will have an effect + I know the debian maintainer
<fabrice_sp> in this case, ok :-)
<fabrice_sp> I still have some patch I forwarded some month/year ago that haven't been adopted
<fabrice_sp> so I generally report to Debian and if no news in one or 2 weeks => I upload in Ubuntu
<nigelb> You could mail the maintainer or take permission to do nmu
<nigelb> fabrice_sp: around?
<nigelb> if someone can take a look at this build failure to figure out whats going wrong, would be much appeeciated
<nigelb> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/48910943/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.cdrdao_1%3A1.2.3-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<fabrice_sp> nigelb, I'll check
<fabrice_sp> TocParser.cpp is generated from TocParser.g, so it's not so easy
<fabrice_sp> you can check in the upstream cvs, if the problem is solved or not
<geser> fabrice_sp: partly solved in #ubuntu-packaging
<geser> upstream included a patch to TocParser.cpp yet patch managed to apply it a second time (at a wrong location) breaking TocParser.g
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> byt the way geser, did you my message on vtk?
<fabrice_sp> see
<geser> yes, I saw it
<fabrice_sp> ok. I have a working package in my ppa, if you want to test something
<geser> is the fixed boost-defaults package independent from the vtk merge or would it also work with the current vtk (and make it installable again)?
<fabrice_sp> it would work with current one
<fabrice_sp> boost-defaults is broken in lucid also
<fabrice_sp> and I'm waiting for the upload to Maverick to follow the sru process
<nigelb> "dh_install --fail-missing --sourcedir=debian/tmp" in rules causes the build to fail.
<nigelb> I should be investigating it or just remove --fail-missing?
<carstenh> nigelb: investigate of course
<G> nigelb: check for *.dirs files
<G> nigelb: you may have entries surplus to requirements
<nigelb> G: looks like I didn't add the required entires
<arand> Would anyone mind sponsoring hardy..lucid in Bug #581331 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581331 in bitlbee (Ubuntu Karmic) "error message while trying to use my MSN account in bitlbee" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581331
<nigelb> Is there a reason why a package cannot be 'debuild -S -sa' a second time?
<G> nigelb: what error message do you get?
<nigelb> G: hold on, let me debuild again
<nigelb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/437747/
<G> nigelb: does conf/config.sub still exist?
<nigelb> G: inside the package?
<G> nigelb: also, you are patching configure.ac, are you rerunning autoreconf.sh somehow?
<G> nigelb: inside the exploded tree, yeah
<nigelb> I dont see a conf/config.sub anywhere
<nigelb> G: No autoreconf.sh file anywhere either
<nigelb> There is a configure.ac file in the main package tree
<G> oh sorry, autogen.sh
<nigelb> no autogen.sh either
<nigelb> btw, I'm not patching configure.ac, at least not that I know
<G> Line 29
<nigelb> oh
<G> nigelb: is a copy of the current source .deb/.dsc file etc available somewhere that I can maybe take a look at, I can't guarrantee anything but I might be able to work it out
<G> nigelb: I had similar issues
<nigelb> I can put it up somwhere and you can take a look at the whole tree
<nigelb> Now, it works once and built the package, but I expect debuild to work second time too
<G> agreed, so would I :)
<nigelb> copying, should get copied in a few minutes
<nigelb> great, its going to take 35 minutes :/
<G> eek
<nigelb> people.ubuntu.come is slow
<G> nigelb: do you have a copy of the debian.tar.gz file somewhere (or diff.gz)?
<nigelb> I wonder if I should put it up on mentors.debian.org
<nigelb> I do, but its a new upstream version
<nigelb> so you want the whole thing anyway
<G> I can grab the upstream tarball myself
<nigelb> so what do you want? the new diff.gz?
<G> yeah
<nigelb> http://people.ubuntu.com/~nigelbabu/cdrdao_1.2.3-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<nigelb> G: ^
<G> nigelb: giving it a ago now
<nigelb> G: debuiild works first time
<nigelb> give it a second go and it gives you trouble
<G> hmmmm that is odd
<G> I've got a feeling I know why
<nigelb> ooh, why?
<G> nigelb: there is a 'make -C' statement in the clean stuff
<G> going to give something a go
<nigelb> oh
<nigelb> ah, that is changing things post build!
<G> and prebuild
<nigelb> so those lines have to go right?
<G> nigelb: I think so, but just looking at something now
<G> nigelb: I've got a feeling, that you could replace the whole debian/rules with the new standard simplified version
<nigelb> G: where do I find that?
<G> nigelb: http://stats.nigelj.com/debian.rules
<G> can't believe I had to shuffle the file around about 5 times because all the subdomains i use either have funky rewrite rules or I forgot to change the DNS records :S
<nigelb> heh
<G> nigelb: hmmm, it doesn't fully work it seems, it may need an override :S
<nigelb> hm :(
<G> nigelb: I think you could get away with removing those make rules in clean
<nigelb> G: the ones we thought were problematic?
<G> yeah
<nigelb> lemme try
<G> yeah, seems to work for me
<G> nigelb: looks like you'll need to replace it with several manual rms in the clean part though
<G> based on diff.gz after the second build
<nigelb> well, now it debuild -S -sa works twice
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: EMERGENCY! The package gnome-media-player which you sponsored failed to build due to chroot problem in powerpc. see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-media-player/0.1.2-0ubuntu1/+build/1744204/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-powerpc.gnome-media-player_0.1.2-0ubuntu1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
<maco> bilalakhtar: there should be a "try again" button if a build fails i think
<bilalakhtar> maco: Ohk
<nigelb> G: several rms? how do I figure which ones?
<bilalakhtar> But this was my  very first package that I got into Ubuntu. A disappointment for me,though it is a problem with the buildd machines
<bilalakhtar> maco: Its not there
<G> nigelb: hold on... something is weird here
<G> nigelb: there is: clean: clean-patched unpatch,  cleaned-patch is: clean-patched: patch ....
<bilalakhtar> Wierd. The same package built properly on amd64, armel and i386 architectures
<maco> bilalakhtar: in maverick?
<bilalakhtar> maco: Yes
<nigelb> G: that definitely wierd
<maco> the weirder architectures sometimes do that ;-)
<bilalakhtar> Can a MOTU get the package gnome-media-player built?
<bilalakhtar> I mean rebuilt?
<bilalakhtar> maco: See this. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/48903998/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-powerpc.gnome-media-player_0.1.2-0ubuntu1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
<maco> thats what im trying
<G> nigelb: also, it looks like some files have been modified outside of the patch system
<maco> ive hit the try again button on packages in the kubuntu ppas. trying to find where it is in non-ppas because im pretty sure we have access to that too
<nigelb> G: thats strange. that happens during build time?
<G> nigelb: remove the patch part out of clean-patched, and then examine diff.gz
<G> nigelb: ahhh maybe
<G> let me see
<ScottK> maco: If you can upload the package, you should have a rety button.
<maco> there was one day when every amd64 build for like an hour just fell over with a chroot problem. that was interesting
<maco> ScottK: how do i find it in non-ppas?
<bilalakhtar> maco: I think 3 months ago. I faced that problem as well.
<maco> i am getting lost in launchpad
<G> nigelb: oh wait, my mistake
<maco> oh im dumb
<maco> im not logged in
<nigelb> hah
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-media-player/0.1.2-0ubuntu1/+build/1744204
<nigelb> G: /me bows to DMs and DDs.
<maco> its before breakfast time! i have an excuse!
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: Yeah that ine
<geser> bilalakhtar: it's a known bug that some powerpc builds fail with a chroot error
<bilalakhtar> *one
<G> nigelb: debian/rules for me now looks like: http://stats.nigelj.com/cdrdao.rules
<bilalakhtar> Thanks! maybe maco or ScottK did it
<G> nigelb: I'm neither :P
<maco> i clicked it after i logged in
<bilalakhtar> geser: Why does Ubuntu build packages for PowerPC, anyway?
<bilalakhtar> I think its unsupported
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: It's community supported.
<ScottK> It works pretty well and has a significant user base.
<nigelb> G: neither am I, but I understand the daunting task
<nigelb> G: my rules file looks the same too
 * bilalakhtar understands why PowerPC is important
<xelister> hi guys, I would like to provide recent compcache for ubuntu. Anyone want to lead me?
<xelister> compcache (compressing swap in ram) exists in lucid, but a bit older version and without the userspace tool
<xelister> the package does not yet exist in debian (but work is in progress afaik)
<nigelb> in that case, I'd guide you to be a DM for that package
<xelister> ok, so what to do?
<nigelb> xelister: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-first.en.html#s-choose
<carstenh> xelister: is the name of the package compcache-tools?
<xelister> yes
<xelister> so far I build that program from source (trivial) and it works, in creates an .ko to be loaded and user space tool
<carstenh> xelister: tomorrow the last response from daniel to this bug ( http://bugs.debian.org/495386 ) is five month ago and the bug itelf is nearly two years old ...
<carstenh> xelister: I didn't find information about how to handle this situation, just to point to when you highjack the itp
<nigelb> the package compcache-tools?
<nigelb> 09:14 < xelister> yes
<xelister> btw Im not any "debian developer" or something yet
<nigelb> xelister: you can be a maintainer
<carstenh> xelister: that a two years old itp bug is old enough to be highjacked seems to be obvious
<carstenh> nigelb: not that fast if you think about "Debian maintainer"
<nigelb> well, not that fast, but you can start maintaining it and then later be a DM officially
<carstenh> xelister: not being a DD or DM doesn'T prevent you from maintaining a package, you just need to find sponsors
<carstenh> and if your sponsor begins to hate you you become DM
<nigelb> lol
<nigelb> same way you become MOTU
<carstenh> xelister: the first step seems to search for ITP in the developers reference manual and hope that there are some rules you can point to
<ScottK> The usual way to take over an ITP is to email the bug and the submitter asking if it's OK and then going ahead in a week or two if you don't hear back.
<carstenh> xelister: you should do what ScottK suggests :)
<xelister> hmm but that was debian's bug not ubuntu
<carstenh> xelister: if you get the package into debian you need to maintain it there as you are responsible for it. if it is in debian it gets synced to ubuntu automatically.
<carstenh> xelister: maintaining it in ubuntu when debian possibly has its own version doesn't sound that efficient since everything must be done twice
<carstenh> xelister: if you don't like to get reach more people with the same amount of work you could also just prepare a new version for ubuntu and ask for a sponsor
<carstenh> s/get //
<arand> Would anyone mind sponsoring hardy..lucid in Bug #581331 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581331 in bitlbee (Ubuntu Karmic) "error message while trying to use my MSN account in bitlbee" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581331
<xelister> hmm actually, that ramzswap did not work perfectly
<xelister> perhaps this is because it is supposed to be rather used with .33 kernel
<xelister> can I easly upgrade Lucid to .33 kernel?
<xelister> and if it turns out it works with .33 kernels only, then does it make sense
<carstenh> you can't get a new upstream version to lucid anyway
<carstenh> but getting it into maverick is easy
<xelister> overall.. it was not so good tu use .32 in lucid.. things like btrfs suck on .32
<arand> xelister: You can get mainline build of the kernel for ubuntu for testing purposes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/MainlineBuilds?action=show&redirect=KernelMainlineBuilds
<xelister> yeah I just ofund that... would be nice to have ppa of kernels like .33 but WITH ubutnu specyfic stuff (drivers)
<fabrice_sp> Hi. A small question: where should be installed the .egg-info file in a python package? A patch I sent changed it from /usr/lib/python2.5/site-package to /usr/lib/python2.5/site-pacakge/vtk (it's for python-vtk pacakge)
<geser> fabrice_sp: try asking the python packaging experts in #debian-python@OFTC
<fabrice_sp> ok. Thanks geser
<ScottL> it appears that i found the problem with the ardour mute buttons bug #581786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581786 in Ubuntu Studio "Mute button not enabled by default in Ardour 2.8.6 Lucid AM64" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581786
<ScottL> sorry, wrong channel :P
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-23
<MTecknology> can you have make-kpkg build something that you can push to a ppa?
<am_> hi guys, i am trying to build a package with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot and i keep getting the error :dpkg-deb: control directory has bad permissions 655
<am_> i have tried setting the permissions of debian/control  manually to 755 but it still gives the warning
<am_> i also have dh_fixperms in my debian/rules
<G> am_: check the perms on 'debian/'
<am_> G 755 on debian/
<am_> drwxr-xr-x  4 am am  4096 2010-05-23 16:00 debian
<tumbleweed> anyone know of any current gs issues in maverick? This won't build. http://stefanor.uctleg.net/tmp/albatross/
<am_> hi guys, i have my code in git, and have a separate branch for the debian files needed for packaging
<am_> is there some way that i can tell the build system / lintian to ignore the .git file and just not include it
<geser> tumbleweed: do you have an error message from a build?
<geser> am_: see the -i / -I option from dpkg-source: debuild -I.git and/or -i.git should hopefully do it
<tumbleweed> geser: http://paste.ubuntu.com/438372/
<arand> Anyone got a minute to sponsor hardy..lucid-proposed in Bug #581331 ?
<geser> tumbleweed: I don't know of any gs issues and ghostscript in maverick is the same as in lucid-updates
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581331 in bitlbee (Ubuntu Karmic) "error message while trying to use my MSN account in bitlbee" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581331
<tumbleweed> geser: hmm. It builds fine on sid, and I swear I tested that patch on maverick a few days ago
<tumbleweed> that patch being a patch unrelated to the gs bug, which is the reason I'm building it
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, I've just rejected ap ackage that FTBFS with the same error as the one you're having
<fabrice_sp> so it seems some error in gs
<geser> gs got update in lucid-updates and maverick ten days ago, can you check if it also happens with the gs from original lucid? perhaps it's a regression from the SRU
<tumbleweed> ok, it was a gsfonts upload 3 days ago
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, does that mean that actual version of gsfonts in maverick is buggy?
<geser> fabrice_sp: most likely
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: still trying to work out what's going on
<tumbleweed> if I downgrade then upgrade in my pubilder, it still builds
<tumbleweed> so, something to do with font registration (which is what that upload changed)
<geser> the changelog for gsfonts mentions Debian bug 582113 which mentions a patch which needs to get applied to gs which maverick is missing (not update-gsfontmap)
<ubottu> Debian bug 582113 in gsfonts "gsfonts: dropping defoma, introducing update-gsfontmap" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/582113
<geser> tumbleweed: if you have time, can you check if applying the patch from Debian bug 582110 fixes gs in maverick again?
<tumbleweed> oh, yes, missed that
<ubottu> Debian bug 582110 in ghostscript "ghostscript: dropping defoma, introducing update-gsfontmap" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/582110
<tumbleweed> geser: will do
<cpscotti> Hey, anyone there to help me finishing a SRU? I've already did most of what is said in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates but I'm not exactly sure about some points..
<a|wen> cpscotti: which bug are you preparing the SRU in?
<cpscotti> a|wen:  579747
 * ScottK waves to a|wen.
<cpscotti> a|wen: 480772
<a|wen> hi ScottK!
 * a|wen knows he has been a bit away lately ... busy with thesis :)
<a|wen> cpscotti: the first or the second one is teh right one?
<cpscotti> well, the first one is the actual bug. But I fixed the bug upstream
<cpscotti> and then another guy saw it (via debian/watch) and issued the fix on the second bug #
<ari-tczew> cpsscotti: please write: bug ####number
<ari-tczew> just like that: bug 579747
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 579747 in harpia (Ubuntu) "Please update harpia to the latest version 1.1" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/579747
<cpscotti> oh.. thanks!
<cpscotti> got it
 * Laney thinks that mk-sbuild installs too much stuff in the base chroot
<ari-tczew> Laney my friend, nice to meet you
<a|wen> cpscotti: so you want to update to a new upstream release in an SRU?
<cpscotti> a|wen: so.. the problem is that I shouldn't have fixed it upstream?
<Laney> hello
<cpscotti> a|wen: the new upstream version ONLY adds this bug fix
<ari-tczew> Laney: how many security fixes have you done?
<cpscotti> and the package is unusable in lucid (resulting from incompatibility with another package that was changed for lucid.)
<ari-tczew> cpscotti: what the bug is considering to SRU?
<Laney> I don't know, and I don't really want to have this conversation, sorry
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, what is the point of asking that?
<a|wen> cpscotti: then it should be possible to do ... first you need to write explicitly (document from changelog) that this is the only fix; note down that the package has no rdepends (i suppose it doesn't); and a package should be prepared with the version number 1.1-0ubuntu0.1 targeted at lucid-proposed
<cpscotti> ok, after doing that, how can I upload it?
<ari-tczew> Laney: full of professionalism
<a|wen> cpscotti: another thing; you should not assign the bug to ubuntu-sru (that is forbidden), you should only subscribe them, when the SRU is ready
<cpscotti> a|wen:  ah.. oh.. well.. I've been trying many (probably forbidden) stuff..
<cpscotti> a|wen: last thing, where to upload that ubuntu0.1 version?
<a|wen> cpscotti: if you have upload rights, you can upload it to the proposed queue ... if not, attach it to the bug
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: because I'd like to know about it. I want to know how many security fixes have done this MOTU. I'm thirsty of this knowledge.
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, it's not a matter of quantity. It' a matter of quality
<a|wen> cpscotti: also you need to update the description of the bug in the beginning, and write a test-case of how to reproduce the error and how to check it is fixed with the new version
<cpscotti> a|wen: ok.. so then I'll attach it to the bug 480772 ?  right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480772 in Harpia "OpenCV 2 incompatibilities" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480772
<a|wen> cpscotti: you can choose any of the two bugs ... in bug 579747 you have already nominated for lucid like you should
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 579747 in harpia (Ubuntu) "Please update harpia to the latest version 1.1" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/579747
<cpscotti> a|wen: that version that was already submitted to maverick doesn't count?
<debfx> could someone please upload this lucid SRU or at least open the task for lucid so it appears on the sponsoring page: bug #573591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 573591 in libapache2-mod-fcgid (Debian) "Uploads greater than 64 kilobytes corrupted when using Apache mod_fcgid" [Unknown,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/573591
<a|wen> cpscotti: count as?
<cpscotti> the upload for lucid
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: yea, that's right, that's right! but he doesn't understand, that I prefer to fixing security issues instead of FTBFS. so as I can say that he can't be a MOTU because he doesn't fixing security issues. Analogous situation.
<cpscotti> well.. ok.. I get it
<cpscotti> a|wen:  the difference will be de "ubuntu0.1", right?
<a|wen> cpscotti: exactly
<a|wen> debfx: do you have a minimal test-case to add to the bug description?
<a|wen> debfx: nominated for lucid
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, I don't see the point of 'attacking' laney. Being a MOTU is also about community integration and trust. If you sems to be aggressive, you will have problems to have good comments to your application. But anyway: this is off-topic...
<fabrice_sp> let's focus on fixing lucid and making maverick a good release
<debfx> a|wen: the reporter posted a test case in the first comment but I had to do some changes to make it work
<a|wen> imagemagick in maverick needs a no change rebuild, until then all builds against it fails; anyone around who can do that rebuild?
<a|wen> debfx: then add your improved test-case to the bug description :)
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: just constructive discussion. nothing to attack. arguments, negotiations...  making maverick good release? check your e-mailbox for requests :)
<fabrice_sp> I know: I'm sponsoring stuff right now (some of them, old...)
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: and I'm glad for this. Thanks for your work and time.
<fabrice_sp> thank you for your time also ;-)
<a|wen> cpscotti: just ping me if you have further questions or think that the SRU is done, and i'll look through it
<cpscotti> a|wen: ok.. thanks.. I'll surely fix this all this week
<imbrandon> a|wen: whats imagemagick need the rebuild for ? i can do the upload but need a reason
<a|wen> imbrandon: new graphviz version has changed the name of some of the packages
<imbrandon> k
<fabrice_sp> hey imbrandon !
<fabrice_sp> time for bug 531973?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531973 in boost-defaults (Ubuntu) "[UNMETDEPS] libboost-mpi-dev has unmet dependencies in Lucid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531973
<imbrandon> a|wen: done
<imbrandon> fabrice_sp: heya
<imbrandon> fabrice_sp: sure, i'll grab it now
<a|wen> imbrandon: thanks a lot!
<debfx> a|wen: done
<tumbleweed> geser: that patch sorted the ghostscript issue: bug 584597
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 584597 in ghostscript (Ubuntu) "Missing defoma dropping patch from Debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/584597
<a|wen> debfx: perfect ... now we'll just have to wait till one of the sru people comes along
<imbrandon> fabrice_sp: done
<fabrice_sp> imbrandon, great! thanks  a lot!
<debfx> a|wen: I thought SRUs are uploaded and then held in the queue unitl they are approved by ubuntu-sru
<a|wen> debfx: i've always let the SRU people do the upload ... but looks like the policy says so; i'll look at it in a minute
<a|wen> debfx: uploaded to the -proposed queue, now awaiting approval
<debfx> a|wen: thanks!
<geser> tumbleweed: thanks for testing and preparing a debdiff
<arand> Anyone got a minute to sponsor hardy..lucid-proposed in Bug #581331 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581331 in bitlbee (Ubuntu Karmic) "error message while trying to use my MSN account in bitlbee" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581331
<maco> so if i uploaded something to lucid-proposed and its waiting on SRU ACK  & so is in Unapproved state, but now i want to tweak the debian/changelog (add another bug # i didnt know about before)... do i just upload and it overwrites or do i need someone to reject the unapproved package first?
<arand> maco: If I remember correctly you will need it rejected first, but take that as a vague guess, rather.
<Laney> I thought that you didn't
<Laney> . o O ( try it and see )
<maco> heh
<tumbleweed> geser: np
<arand> Laney maco: Yea, my guess is based on something I think I remember someone saying at some point, so yea, might likely be wrong :/
<ajmitch_> yay for LP having updated sid info again
<Laney> yeah that apt-ftparchive bug got fixed
<ajmitch_> now I get to watch bzr merge-package fail
<imbrandon> sounds like too much fun
<ajmitch_> I'm sure it is, if it'd work right :)
<ajmitch_> conflicts are to be sort of expected, but it's not being helpful with regards to what's conflicting in debian/{control,rules}
<ScottL> i'm working on bug #581786 and i need to remove an existing config file so that new configurations will be applied and a new config file written when the updated of ardour is downloaded and installed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581786 in Ubuntu Studio "Mute button not enabled by default in Ardour 2.8.6 Lucid AM64" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581786
<ScottL> can the postinst file be something like this:
<ScottL> for ~/.ardour2/ardour.rc rm ~/.ardour2/ardour.rc
<arand> ScottL: Ah, that about the mute button not doing nuffink by default?
<ScottL> yes arand
<arand> ScottL: *hugs*
<pochu> you're not allowed to touch user's home directories in maintainer scripts
<ScottL> oh, pochu, do you have another suggestion?
<pochu> do it in the program :)
<pochu> (but in a sane way)
<ScottL> i'm pretty new to bug fixing and packaging, but i'm not sure how
<ScottL> what i found building ardour in ppa is that it seems to build correctly with the new settings
<ScottL> it installs well, but the settings are still there, even for new songs
<ScottL> BUT if you delete the existing file in the home dirctory and let ardour rebuild it
<ScottL> then the new settings are in the config file in the home directory
<ScottL> so any suggestions are welcome :)
<carstenh> ScottL: no maintainer script should ever do anything in someones home, this would be a release critical bug
<pochu> ScottL: sorry I've never used ardour, but can't users change the settings from the program preferences or whatever?
<ScottL> carstenh, okay, thanks
<pochu> ScottL: why do you need to change them upon upgrade?
<ScottL> pochu, with the setting as is, the mute button is turned off by default
<ScottL> yes the user could change the settings (four different options each time) but this would be required for each new project
<ScottL> quite possibly for each new track (i didn't check this though)
<ScottL> to be honest (as a user) this does *not* seem a sane setting to me
<ScottL> the upgrade would be to turn the settings on by default (as one would expect when pushing the mute button)
<ScottL> but as i said, the existing config file would need t be modified or deleted
<ScottL> i have to go afk for a bit (family is outside) but if anyone has any suggestions, I'm open to them :)
<arand> Have you seen:  http://tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=2832 "Confirmed as still a problem in latest 2.0. Fixed in A3." Might se if you can find _how_ it was "solved"
<ScottL> i did arand
<ScottL> it was an old bug originally if i remember correctly and paul said he thought he had fixed it
<ScottL> although i'm not sure to what "A3" refers
<arand> ScottL: And isn't the patch in http://tracker.ardour.org/file_download.php?file_id=902&type=bug exactly what we want?
<ScottL> yes and no arand
<ScottL> if the ardour.rc file is not in the users home directory then yes, if not then no
<arand> ScottL: Right so the home file will override the /etc/ one...
<arand> ScottL: But On a fresh install it would work
<arand> ?
<ScottL> yes, arand :)
<arand> ScottL: Hmm, in that case, since you _Do not touch home_ I don't think there's really a good solution (others correct me if I'm wrong), since you can't mess in home, and you can't have etc overriding home either, it's kind of lost since ardour has messed up those in the first place it seems...
<imbrandon> i think its bluez-compat
<imbrandon> err mistype
<micahg> ScottL: add a wrapper script around the binary
<ScottL> micahg, what would the wrapper script do if i we cannot touch home?
<micahg> ScottL: wrapper script is installed, you can touch home in it if you're careful
<micahg> ScottL: Here's a simple example of a wrapper script: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43565621/edbrowse_3.4.1-1_3.4.1-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<ScottL> oh, that's a brilliant suggestions, thanks
<micahg> ScottL: you might want to just rename it to .old or something rather than removing
<ScottL> micahg, certainly
<ScottL> qjackctl has something similar (wrapper script) that i am somewhat familiar
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-16
<highvoltage> Laney: nice mail!
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<hrw> morning
<dholbach> good morning
<xdatap1> dholbach, morning!
<dholbach> hey xdatap1
<Laney> highvoltage: :) / :(
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<nigelb> hello xdatap1, reached home safely?
<xdatap1> nigelb, hey nigel! Yes everything's fine. Thank you. And you?
<nigelb> xdatap1: Got back safely :)
<flower> how do I make a package which installs some files in /etc/xdg/menus for example?
<flower>  I like to make a package which installs just some files into the system, is there such an example file in an official ubuntu project or outside of it?
<directhex> flower, look at a font package
<flower> directhex: k
<flower> directhex: other info what might be useful for me?
<flower> to make such a package?
<directhex> there's really not much to it. just a debian/install file, and a dh_install in rules.
<flower> ok I have a look, thx
<flower> directhex: and there should also be a makefile in the package?
<directhex> flower, or make sure you have empty build rules in debian/rules
<flower> directhex: empty build rules?
<directhex> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/dreq.en.html#targets
 * flower reading
<flower> phoe
<flower> complex
<arand> flower: But if you just use a dh7-style minimal rules file and .install lists, pretty much all of that can be ignored.
<flower> arand: do you have an example of such a file?
<arand> flower: If you just run dh-make in the package directory you will get one
<flower> arand: ok, but there is no package yet, only the files
<arand> So you have a directory full of these files you want to install?
<flower> yes, some menu related files, one should go into /usr/share/applications the other in /etc/xdg/menus etc
<arand> rename that directory to packagename-3.5.6 (e.g.) and run dh-make inside it to get started.
<arand> s/dh-make/dh_make/
<arand> And if you do not have a tarball from the original source  you may want to use --createorig otherwise, rename it as per packagename_up.stream.version.orig.tar.gz
<arand> flower: E.g. packagename_3.5.6.orig.tar.gz
<flower> arand: ok
<flower> hmm ok that's a start
<flower> arand: made an install file http://fpaste.org/VuXe/
<arand> flower: Try to run debuild and then check in debian/packagename/* what items got installed.
<flower> k
<flower> arand: looks good to me
<jtaylor> urgh is the quilt .pc dir supposed to be under bzr version control?
<jtaylor> pyfltk has .pc/folder with applied patches in its branch
<jtaylor> no idea how I should make a minimal patch in this state
<arand> You can always use .bzrignore (I think), and then just go by bzr-buildpackage?
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<jtaylor> arand: thats again an extra change to the repo
<arand> jtaylor: Yea, that seems to be messy..
<arand> jtaylor: Although the tar.gz in the archives does not have it...
<jtaylor> yes only the bzr branch
<jtaylor> a classic debdiff is probably simpler in this case ...
<arand> I guess you create a minimal patch and add it as applied to the branch, if that is how the maintainer does things, and then unapply it fo the actual building
<jtaylor> micahg: won't that introduce a regression when the fix in oneiric is forgotten?
<micahg> jtaylor: well, it's no worse than now, but ideally, fix the FTBFS for pyfltk, get it uploaded to oneiric
<jtaylor> bug 779340 has a patch now if someone wants to have a look
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779340 in pyfltk (Ubuntu) "From python: import fltk fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779340
<ScottK> jtaylor: Since we're early in the development schedule, how about you get it uploaded in Debian and sync?
<jtaylor> its sitting the bts without answer since a week
<paultag> jtaylor: what package?
<jtaylor> and the package itself will probably not update anymore, its the sameversion upstream version since jan 2010
<paultag> jtaylor: what package?
<jtaylor> so I also guess the motivation of the maintainer to fix an ubuntu bug is low
<jtaylor> pyfltk
<ScottK> Actually the new maintainer is generally active in Ubuntu, so I'd guess otherise.
<paultag> jtaylor: good news is the package is team-maintained. Worst case, give the team a mail, or say hi over on oftc
<paultag> jtaylor: :)
<paultag> jtaylor: pretty small patch, too
<paultag> jtaylor: give that team a mail asking if they can review and upload the fix so you don't have to keep a delta in Ubuntu, one of them should be nice enough to help
<jtaylor> I'll ask but in my experience that will take a while
<paultag> yuck and they use svn, so no way to send a format-patch
<jtaylor> you can use git-svn
<porthose> jtaylor, this is a drive by comment :) pyfltk is on my hit list, hopefully I will have time to look at it tonight/tomorrow laters gotta go (porthose is running late)
<Xderick> I know it's an kind of 'hack' to reorganize / customize the menus, but is there a way to solve this as best as possible http://fpaste.org/NAR5/
<Ampelbein> Xderick: I guess you could use dpkg-divert for that.
<Xderick> e.g. I  made an deb package which reorganizes some parts of the gnome menu. It overwrites /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu but it is also in the gnome-menu package and apt doesn't like that (and he might be right ;) )
<Xderick> or is it also possible to mv a file via an deb package? E.g. mv applications.menu applications.menu_bak
<Ampelbein> Xderick: with dpkg-divert you can tell dpkg to install the file from gnome-menu to a different location (e.g. applications.menu_gnome)
<Xderick> Ampelbein, hmm
<Xderick> Ampelbein, interesting ...
<Xderick> Ampelbein, I might be in trouble when I remove the new menu package though ... hmm
<Ampelbein> Xderick: you could add the dpkg-divert calls in your postinst/postrm
<Xderick> Ampelbein, hmm ok
<Xderick> dpkg-divert --add --rename --divert /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu_gnome /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu
<Xderick> dpkg-divert --divert /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu_gnome --rename /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu
<Ampelbein> Xderick: yes, the last one in postinst of your package, and 'dpkg-divert --rename --remove /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu' in postrm
<Xderick> Ampelbein, ok thx man. I'll look into the postinst and postrm files
<Ampelbein> Xderick: actually, the diversion should go into the preinst as it needs to be called before unpacking the package.
<Xderick> Ampelbein, do you have an example of such a preinst and postrm file?
<Ampelbein> Xderick: hmm, not from the top of my head. you could grep for dpkg-divert in /var/lib/dpkg/info to see if there is a simple one installed on your system.
<Xderick> k
<Xderick> most files uses pretty advanced (for me) bash scripting ...
 * cjwatson kicks off a big pile of ocaml transition uploads
<cjwatson> since it's not obvious that anyone else is doing it
<geser> cjwatson: thanks, I started with it (sort of) and wanted to check what needs rebuild for round 1
<cjwatson> I did my own private ben run
<cjwatson> should make the output public at some point ...
<Xderick> hmm this seems to be an template preinst file http://fpaste.org/Oh4C/
<maco> cjwatson: ben run?
<geser> thanks for that too (it was on my todo list)
<cjwatson> maco: the script behind http://release.debian.org/transitions/
<geser> maco: Debian's transitions checker
<cjwatson> magic thing that orders a pile of packages into dependency strata
<cjwatson> makes transitions about a zillion times easier
<maco> transition as in transitional package?
<cjwatson> no as in library transitions
<cjwatson> the sort of thing where you need to rebuild a few hundred rdeps or whatever
<maco> ouch
<geser> maco: e.g. libperl5.10 â libperl5.12
<Xderick> Ampelbein, should this line be enough in the preinst script: dpkg-divert --divert /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu_gnome --rename /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu
<Xderick> Ampelbein,  or does it need #!/bin/bash
<geser> maco: see http://bentobako.org/ubuntu-ocaml-status/transition_monitor/ocaml_transition_monitor.html for a previous OCaml transition (unhide to see the ordering)
<cjwatson> that does not need #! /bin/bash
<Xderick> just that single line is enough?
<cjwatson> err, it does need *some* #! line
<cjwatson> but #! /bin/sh is fine
<directhex> we have a ben install for mono 2.10. should start that at some point
<Ampelbein> Xderick: debian policy 6.1, http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html ;-)
<cjwatson> right, I think that's most of rounds 2 and 3 of ocaml according to ben uploaded/retried
 * cjwatson will leave that lot to build overnight
<Xderick> this might be useful for me as example, but not 100% sure what it does http://fpaste.org/2WUh/
<Xderick> it seems to try to handle the upgrade nicely... compares files....  if the files are not the same, run the dpkg-divert command ... (?)
<Xderick> hmm I think I have to run the dpkg-divert command only the first time when such a package is installed...
<Xderick> when there is an upgrade, it doesn't seems to be logical to run the dpkg-divert command again...
<zooko> Folks: how do I get launchpad to auto-subscribe me to any new tickets about a certain package?
<arand> zooko: On the package page there should be an option to subscribe to most things related to that package.
<zooko> Found it!
<zooko> Thanks. :-)
<jtaylor> ah zooko, can you please update pycryptopp in debian
<jtaylor> its 12 releases behind upstream
 * Xderick needs some help with those preinst and postrm scripts
<zooko> Hi, jtaylor!
<zooko> Yes, I'll do that. I don't think I've done it before, so we'll see how long it takes me to figure it out...
<jtaylor> you did the first package?
<ajmitch> you can ask in #debian-python on oftc for any python-specific stuff, or there'd be some people who know about it here
<ajmitch> the main change is switching to dh_python2 this cycle
<jtaylor> for the future, it is strogly advised for maintainers to test their packages during the development cycles, updating tahoe after release will require more work
<jtaylor> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<maco> to get onto http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ with a merge proposal... do you subscribe sponsors to the bug or the proposal?
 * maco crossposts since -devel only has two talkers
<jtaylor> merge proposal is enough
<highvoltage> maco: yay, I see you're applying for DM!
<Xderick> Ampelbein, my bash isn't good enough ...
<maco> yeah. lfaraone pestered me into it for umm.... well theoretically for like 8 months except then he forgot he was pestering me so there was a few months in there when he didnt mention it
<Xderick> Ampelbein, maybe I should make an upgrade of the package conflict with the older one? to avoid upgrading problems in a simple manner?
<ajmitch> maco: not applying for DD yet? :)
<maco> ajmitch: ive only planned as far ahead as DM and ~kubuntu-dev
<ajmitch> being DM can help a little with the DD application, though it shouldn't matter too much
<maco> ajmitch: im applying for DM because my sponsor named above is so annoyed at the idea of having to sponsor my packages that he has brought up DM every time ive spoken to him since last DebConf
<ajmitch> heh, that's a good way to do it
<directhex> does DM need any advocacy or sponsoring these days?
<maco> you need one advocate email from a sponsor
<maco> though >1 is preferable
<directhex> you have that already?
<maco> yeah luke sent his advocate email
<maco> and put DD in the email, then had to send a new email saying oops i mean DM...and hopefully DD soon too
<ajmitch> & hopefully he'll sign at least one of the emails :)
<maco> did he not sign his email either? haha
<maco> we're probably both using GMail from work/school
<ajmitch> hopefully Laney will get his account created soon...
<ajmitch> so what nice simple things can I work on for oneiric now? :)
<azeem> AFAICT, Ubuntu-modified packages need merging and are not autosynced, right?
<azeem> is there some check whether a Ubuntu diff has been included in the Debian changelog and thus included in the package, leading to an autosync?
<azeem> ajmitch: you could merge avogadro
<broder> azeem: no, that has to be checked for by hand
<micahg> azeem: you can use requestsync and explain why the merge isn't needed
<azeem> micahg: k
<azeem> would be a nice feature though, at least trying to build it
<micahg> azeem: build failures aren't the only reason for a diff
<azeem> sure
<azeem> I'm not saying try to build+upload it blindy, but only when the Ubuntu diff is referened in the Debian changelog
<azeem> but maybe there are more false positives than I imagine
<Rhonda> people write awkward stuff into changelogs, I wouldn't want to depend on it
<Xderick> Ampelbein, hmm doesnt work yet http://fpaste.org/ukvg/
<Xderick> Ampelbein, does it rename the file which is already installed on the system (via gnome-menu) or does it rename the file which is installed by the package?
<azeem> Rhonda: ?
<Rhonda> Is there place for a question infront of your questionmark? Otherwise I'm not very sure what you want to ask me â¦
<azeem> Rhonda: was that comment to my earlier remarks?
<Rhonda> "when the Ubuntu diff is referenced in the Debian changelog" would still make it some kind of "blindy" build+upload
<azeem> how so?
<Rhonda> Because the changelog is free text.
<azeem> the Ubuntu diff changlog is not free text
<azeem> changelog*
<Rhonda> It has nothing to do with whether the diff really is appied or just praised or disregarded or what.
<azeem> right, hence my "false positives" remark
<azeem> however, I guess the number of people copying the Ubuntu changelog, but not the Ubuntu changes for whatever reason, is small
<Rhonda> You wrote "referened" [sic], not copied.
<azeem> sorry about being inaccurate
<Rhonda> referenced isn't copied, at least not in my understanding
<azeem> depends on whether you code in C or C++ I guess
<azeem> anyway, I didn't meant "
<azeem>  * I applied the Ubuntu diff, all is fine
<Rhonda> That rather depends on real life language, not electronical language.
<azeem> I meant having the Ubuntu changelog in the changelog, and possibly in the .changes
<Rhonda> I wasn't able to read that meaning into referenced, sorry, rather what you now wrote that you didn't mean. :)
<MisterX> Does anyone read the mailing list?
<MisterX> Hello.
<Rhonda> MisterX: Surely someone does. :)
<azeem> right, I was being unclear
<MisterX> Rhonda: Oh okey. I requested to get a mentor for MOTU so.....
<Rhonda> But yes, when the Ubuntu changelog is taken over, like including the header and signoff lines, that might be something for basing an assumption on.
<Rhonda> I guess it should be possible to write some scripts that check for such situations - though I'm uncertain about the overall turnout. How regularly get the ubuntu changelogs _really_ included in uploads to Debian?
<azeem> I do it when I merge changes
<Rhonda> I unfortunately think you are a big exception here.
<ajmitch> it's probably still worth having someone check it & request a sync manually
<Rhonda> But I'd like to be proven wrong on that point!
<ajmitch> I don't know if you'd gain much by automatically syncing those few packages where the ubuntu changes are taken as-is
<ajmitch> I guess it'd depend on how many packages that would be
<azeem> yeah, maybe there's much less than I'd think there are
<zooko> /join #blagblagblag
<zooko>  
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-17
<cjwatson> azeem: I agree with other commenters; I don't think the relatively small benefit of avoiding a few manual sync requests outweighs the risk of automatically-induced mistakes.  IME (I process the bulk of manual sync requests) it's rare for the Debian text to be identical to the Ubuntu text anyway.
<cjwatson> Also rare for people to include the entire Ubuntu changelog.  To a first approximation I only see it when the package didn't previously exist in Debian.
<lfaraone> maco, ajmitch, could've sworn I signed both...
<ajmitch> lfaraone: yeah I misread, it was maco that forgot :)
 * ajmitch shouldn't read email from the list archives
<lfaraone> hah. Actually, that was how I got the right message-id for the thread. (I don't subscribe to newmaint)
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Hmm, I guess I should drop the idea of PPU rights, with no endorsements I guess I won't get anywhere. :)
 * Rhonda . o O ( *shamelessplug* https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GerfriedFuchs/DeveloperApplication )
<ajmitch> Rhonda: where are you trying to get endorsements?
 * ajmitch goes to look
<Rhonda> \o/ for 500 Internal Server Erorr
<ajmitch> heh
<Rhonda> Error even, but if one would type Error as Error, it wouldn't be an Error, would it?
 * ajmitch hasn't directly sponsored uploads of yours, but has seen your work
<ajmitch> I think I can endorse you
<Rhonda> I think there weren't any sponsored uploads of mine. %-)
<Rhonda> Well, none for these three packages anyway.
<ajmitch> they were mostly syncs, weren't they?
<Rhonda> Yes, some sponsored syncrequests in the early days.
<Rhonda> Ah, there was one for irssi recently. Yes, lucid-backports for irssi. :)
<Rhonda> And I'm still uncertain about that beep bug. I guess all I can do for it is just document how to enable it prominently, but it's not beep's fault that it doesn't beep anymore when the pcspkr module is blacklisted these days.
<Rhonda> I like this one: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=184055#5
<ubottu> Debian bug 184055 in beep "beep on sparc sounds very bad" [Minor,Open]
<dholbach> hrw, what do you think about https://code.launchpad.net/~hrw/ubuntu/natty/armel-cross-toolchain-base/1.63/+merge/57852? should it still go into natty (does it qualify for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SRU?) or is it OK to just go into oneiric?
<dholbach> hrw, same question about lp:~hrw/ubuntu/natty/gcc-4.4-armel-cross/1.40
<dholbach> menesis, should https://code.launchpad.net/~menesis/ubuntu/natty/wsgi-intercept/natty/+merge/58498 still go into natty or is it ok if it just goes into oneiric?
<menesis> dholbach: first into oneiric, of course. but would be good to have in natty as well
<dholbach> menesis, can you put up a merge proposal for oneiric? I'm happy to review and test it and get it in
<menesis> another proposal, or resubmit this one?
<hrw> dholbach: I am preparing updates for oneiric
<hrw> dholbach: once will get rid of most of lintian complains I will upload
<dholbach> hrw, should the changes still get into natty? if not, I'll ask somebody to mark them as irrelevant
<dholbach> (irrelevant for natty)
<hrw> dholbach: last changes were mostly lintian overrides only so nothing revelant rather
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<dholbach> ok, great - thanks, I'll ask somebody to get them off the sponsoring list for natty then
<hrw> dholbach: thx
<hrw> dholbach: now I can upload armel/armhf cross toolchains on my own ;D
<dholbach> nice :)
<hrw> yep
<hrw> got universe contributor access on uds monday
<dholbach> nice
<hrw> indeed
<geser> hrw: UUC is only for Ubuntu membership (@ubuntu.com), for upload rights you need at least PPU rights
<hrw> geser: ok, I was talking with persia during uds - will get ppu for all my 12 packages
<geser> ah
<Laney> I think exchange has mangled my received sigs :(
<scott-work> anyone seen persia lately?
 * highvoltage saw him on Friday
<Laney> ;-)
<highvoltage> and Laney did too :)
<Laney> highvoltage: cool pics
<highvoltage> yeah, looking at them I realise I should get a better camera next time!
<scott-work> highvoltage: oh, you mean at UDS
<highvoltage> scott-work: yep
<scott-work> i haven't seen him online much in quite a while
<directhex> persia is definitely different in real life to what irc implies
<Laney> i want to try some of the "black dragon" i got
<Laney> scary hungarian booze
<thekittster> Hello everyone, if anyone's interested in getting the new mingw-w64 toolchain synced from Debian to Ubuntu I have the missing link
<thekittster> I've uploaded a gcc-mingw-w64-bootstrap package to REVU: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gcc-mingw-w64-bootstrap
<thekittster> I'd appreciate a review or two ;-)
<highvoltage> Laney: I hoped that your message to -motu would get more response
<thekittster> The needs-packaging bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-mingw-w64/+bug/783175
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 783175 in gcc-mingw-w64 (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] mingw-w64 needs bootstrapping" [Wishlist,In progress]
<Laney> highvoltage: indeed, I had hoped that too
<Laney> maybe that confirms things ...
<scott-work> directhex: how is that?
<directhex> scott-work: i always pictured another random nerd. this is my default picture for random nerds on irc
<highvoltage> in my experience motus are hardly ever random nerds
<highvoltage> (but persia is indeed more interesting)
<directhex> nothing wrong with random nerds
<scott-work> highvoltage: i've never seen him and you are killing me with curiosity now :P
<highvoltage> ]
<highvoltage> scott-work: he's a very friendly, honest and intelligent person. so for me he's the same on irc as irl :)
<scott-work> highvoltage: i don't think i can't imagine him other than as you described
<aaronr> Hi all. If a package is abandoned upstream by the Debian project, but is still in Ubuntu, what's the process for getting that package a maintainer? The mtop package currently has a 6.5 year old bug in the post-install script: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mtop/+bug/77980
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 77980 in mtop (Ubuntu) "mtop failed to install (wrong/no password)" [Medium,Confirmed]
<arand> aaronr: If it's indeed orphaned in Debian, then likely it will be a matter of someone adopting it, if you care about it, that'd be you ;)
<aaronr> Well I don't mind taking it on... if I'm not going to be stepping on any toes by doing so? I'm not an expert at packaging, but I've done a few bits, and happy to learn the bits I don't know.
<jtaylor> according to bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=595822 upstream is dead
<ubottu> Debian bug 595822 in ftp.debian.org "RM: mtop -- RoQA; orphaned, dead upstream, minimal popcon" [Normal,Open]
<jtaylor> you should then also think about becomming upstream
<aaronr> Can someone point me in the direction of some documentation I should read about this sort of thing (both Ubuntu & Debian)? I'm happy to learn, but don't want to ask lots of questions here that are already answered somewhere else. :)
<gusnan> aaronr, there is some info here: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/
<arand> aaronr: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#howto-o : set the status of the bug, upload new version to debian mentors, request sponsorship. Pretty much.
<aaronr> awesome. thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-18
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<dholbach> good morning
<hrw> hello
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<Guybrush88> hello
<Guybrush88> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avogadro/+bug/784267
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 784267 in avogadro (Ubuntu) "[new-upstream]avogadro 1.0.3" [Wishlist,New]
<hrw> cross compiler packages can generate crazy overrides for lintian...
<hrw> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com): Uploading armel-cross-toolchain-base_1.64.dsc: done. Uploading armel-cross-toolchain-base_1.64.tar.gz: done.   Uploading armel-cross-toolchain-base_1.64_source.changes: done.
<hrw> Successfully uploaded packages.
<hrw> my first upload - hope it will go fine
<Laney> tumbleweed: is there any way you could send your signature for my @nottingham.ac.uk uid to one of the other addresses?
<Laney> I want to find out what Exchange is doing to it
<Laney> p.s. hi!
 * tumbleweed looks
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> hmm it's differet
<Laney> nt
<tumbleweed> Laney: yeah I can't reconstitute the message caff sent, but it does archive the signature
<Laney> tumbleweed: I think you sent the signature for @orangesquash.org.uk
<Laney> oh, no
<Laney> it was right... hmm
<Laney> what in the world did exchange do?!
<tumbleweed> heh
<hrw> can someone answer me some questions about ubuntu developer membership?
<micahg> hrw: let's see what the questions are first :)
<hrw> sure
<hrw> I applied for (and got) universe contributor cause was told that motu is going to be removed
<Laney> who told you that?
<hrw> nevermind
<hrw> so what is a difference between universecontributor and normal contributor? just @ubuntu stuff which I can just ignore?
<micahg> hrw: contributing developer can't upload
<iulian> hrw: Did you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers?
<hrw> micahg: universecontributor can't uplaod too
<micahg> hrw: that's contributing developer AFAIK
<hrw> iulian: read. just wanted to discuss do I understood it properly
<hrw> micahg: ppu rights gave upload
<micahg> hrw: that's not contributing developer, that's Per-package uploaders (and members of ubuntu-dev)
<hrw> micahg: ppu devs contributes by their uploads and can also (as 'Prospective Developers') contribute by providing bugfixes/debdiffs for sponsors
<hrw> I mean: is there a difference between 'Prospective Developers' (no @ubuntu, no rights to upload, gives bugfixes/debdiffs for sponsors) and 'Universe Contributors' other then @ubuntu stuff?
<iulian> hrw: No.
<micahg> hrw: ubuntu membership is the difference
<hrw> thx
<Laney> those bullet points are confusing
<Laney> UCD aren't 'responsible' for anything
<hrw> UCD just gets ubuntu membership. rest should be dropped
 * hrw would apply for motu instead
<micahg> well, the list should imply the bar for acceptance to some extent
<Laney> i'd appreciate someone updating it :-)
<hrw> http://pastebin.com/U5RGuec1
<Laney> i like 'continue with sponsored uploads' too
<hrw> Laney: add "rest is like for Prospective Developers" line? :)
<micahg> I think it should list the duties, just not explicit responsibility
<hrw> micahg: they are mostly same for out-of-ubuntu-members and for universe-contributors
<micahg> hrw: indeed, but there's some level of participation reUCD
<micahg> s/reUCD/required to be a UCD/
<Laney> the 'significant and sustained' barrier still applies
<ari-tczew> wgrant: could you update http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/ for oneiric?
<wgrant> ari-tczew: Done.
<ari-tczew> thnx
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<sebner> highvoltage: if you haven't sent the pics to laney, you can send them to me directly if you want :)
<highvoltage> sebner: ok. I put it on facebook and tagged him, but I guess you'll want higher-res photos anyway :)
<sebner> highvoltage: that and I don't use FB :P
<highvoltage> (just finishing something up and will send then)
<sebner> highvoltage: no rush!
<alkisg> Hi, I want to prepare a .debdiff for VLC, which contains changes in binary files. How can I do that?
<alkisg> (for some reason they also have the binary translations inside the source package - the specific files I want to update are el.po==text and el.gmo==binary)
<geser> isn't el.gmo generated from el.po?
<alkisg> It is. But it's also there in the source package
<alkisg> I.e. after `dpkg-source -x` and without building anything, it's there
<alkisg> So I should update it for the debdiff, no?
<alkisg> (trying to prepare an SRU for lucid, for updated greek translations - I talked to the devs about it but I have problems with the binary file there :()
<geser> isn't it regnerated during build from your patched el.po?
<alkisg> It is. So I can just skip updating el.gmo in the .debdiff?
<alkisg> (I believe the correct thing would be for the source package to not contain el.gmo...)
<geser> yes and yes
<alkisg> (it would also make the source package 17 MB smaller - or 6 MB compressed)
<alkisg> Thank you, I'll try that
<highvoltage> sebner: sending mail...
<sebner> highvoltage: thanks very much :)
<highvoltage> you're welcome!
<___D> http://fpaste.org/mTME/ hmm
<___D> what is going wrong here? http://fpaste.org/C1a1/
<___D> he is missing a makefile, but the package doesn't have a makefile, it is only to install some conf files
<paultag> ScottK: sorry I jumped in. I was only there because one of my buddies needed python package help. I re-read what I posted and I might have sounded like an ass. My bad.
<ScottK> paultag: I thought it was fine.
<paultag> I usually try to be a bit nicer, I felt a bit harsh. Thanks, though.
<ScottK> I guarantee that morph thought you did, but I think he'd have thought that to anything other than "Morph: you are completely right".
<paultag> ScottK: :)
<___D> http://fpaste.org/UT3O/
<___D> #
<___D> W: openstudiomenu source: missing-debian-source-format
<___D> #
<___D> W: openstudiomenu source: out-of-date-standards-version 3.8.3 (current is 3.8.4)
<___D> #
<___D> W: openstudiomenu: new-package-should-close-itp-bug
<___D> #
<___D> W: openstudiomenu: copyright-has-url-from-dh_make-boilerplate
<___D> #
<___D> E: openstudiomenu: section-is-dh_make-template
<___D> #
<___D> W: openstudiomenu: empty-binary-package
<paultag> ___D: that built fine, you just don't have a GPG key to sign with. Use the -k flag to pass in the key if it's not byte-for-byte identical with the changelog
<___D> sorry
<paultag> ___D: Whoh, use pastebin :)
<___D> Pathin_, why is it an empty binary?
<paultag> ___D: all of those are simple to fix, use the -i flag for a better description
<paultag> Oh I missed that
<paultag> ___D: What build chain are you using? Does it support DESTDIR?
<___D> paultag, I am trying to build with http://debathena.mit.edu/config-package-dev/
<paultag> Ahha
<paultag> ___D: what's the rules file look like?
<paultag> are you including config-package.mk
<___D> paultag, http://fpaste.org/De5s/
<paultag> hummm
<paultag> ___D: and your control?
 * ScottK figures that one is somehow broder's fault.
<broder> ___D, ScottK, paultag: looking....
<broder> but yes, likely my fault
<___D> paultag, http://fpaste.org/O5Iv/
<broder> (well, likely the fault of the other people working on Debathena for being too busy with finals to reply to ___D's e-mail)
<paultag> broder: just finished my last finals, it was amazing. Free at last, free at last :)
<broder> paultag: i graduated a year ago, which is why i was trying to let the current students deal with this :)
<broder> it's character building
<paultag> broder: Ahhh :)
<paultag> broder: MIT, then?
<broder> yeah
<paultag> broder: I'm from Wellesley, right outside Boston
<___D> broder, I changed some stuff since my last email, with this as example http://debathena.mit.edu/config-package-dev/code/examples-simple/debathena-conffile-example/debian/
<broder> ___D: your package is called openstudiomenu, but you have a file called debian/openstudio-menu.install
<broder> you need to either drop or add some hyphens somewhere
<___D> broder, hmm ok
<___D> broder, seems to be better now...
<___D> broder, is it possible to install conf files in the home dir (knowing the username) or do you get problems with right etc. then?
<broder> ___D: i don't believe that the package manager is the right way to deliver files to a user's homedir
<___D> broder, you're right probably ...
<___D> broder, o my it seems to work :)
<___D> broder, when the package is removed, config-package-dev restores the default conf? And it is possible to upgrade the package (e.g. the conf files)?
<broder> yes, and yes
<___D> broder, paultag thanks!
<paultag> I did nothing, thanks broder :)
<paultag> I thought you were woried about the wrong error and gave you bad advice :)
<___D> you're evil, right
<___D> :p
<paultag> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-19
<AnAnt> Hello, where can I read about the discussion regarding Thunderbird (might) be the default mail client, and the "specific tasks" upon which this will be decided ?
<RAOF> AnAnt: You can find the etherpad document linked from the schedule on uds.ubuntu.com (I think the session was on Thursday?), but the specific tasks weren't actually decided there, just the âthemesâ.
<dholbach> good morning
<AnAnt> dholbach: Hello
<dholbach> hey AnAnt
<AnAnt> dholbach: thanks for the ACKs
<dholbach> no worries :)
<flower> could it be true that if you backport from meerkat to lucid and let meerkat stand in you changelog file, the system asks for a partial distro upgrade?
<flower> # DIST=lucid ARCH=i386 pbuilder create
<flower> W: /root/.pbuilderrc does not exist
<flower> I: Distribution is sid.
<flower> I: Building the build environment
<flower> :/
<flower> on debian that is
<flower> http://fpaste.org/vNpg/ .pbuilderrc
<flower> I: Distribution is sid. sould be I: Distribution is lucid. right?
<jtaylor> set HOME
<jtaylor> sudo -H
<jtaylor> newer sudo does nto preserve HOME env variable, this was reverted in natty
<jtaylor> but debian did not
<flower> is it possible to do it with su on debian?
<jtaylor> if you copy the pbuilderrc I don't see why not
<flower> what's the command then, I don't suppose it's just # -H
<jtaylor> cp /your/user/home/.pbuilderrc /root/
<flower> I: Distribution is sid.
<flower> still
<flower> something wrong with the .pbuilderrc?
<flower> http://fpaste.org/vNpg/
<jtaylor> all the debia/ubuntu magic is commented
<jtaylor> so probably no
<jtaylor> s/no/its wrong/
<flower> hmm
<jtaylor> you also need to install the ubuntu keyring
<flower> I am on sid
<jtaylor> if you want to build for lucid
<flower> is that keyring in debian?
<jtaylor> no
<flower> anyway it doesn't work
<jtaylor> try --distribution lucid
<flower> E: Failed getting release file http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/dists/lucid/Release
<jtaylor> set the correct mirror, ftp.ubuntu.com
<flower> # Mirrors to use. Update these to your preferred mirror.
<flower> DEBIAN_MIRROR="ftp.nl.debian.org"
<flower> UBUNTU_MIRROR="ftp.ubuntu.com"
<jtaylor> pbuilder uses MIRRORSITE
<jtaylor> it can't work if you comment out all the changes needed to use it in ubuntu ...
<flower> hmm I find that doc about pbuilder and ubuntu rather unclear then
<flower> very unclear to see what you have to comment out and what not
<flower> grr
<flower> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Multiple%20pbuilders
<jtaylor> its a bit unclear, it does not mean comment out everything after optionally, bu only the following line
<flower> that's very confusing imho
<flower> pbuilder-dist lucid i386 create
<flower> ok
<stlsaint> does bzr-builddeb have a option to sign the package at build?
<jtaylor> bzr-buildpackage for sure has
<stlsaint> jtaylor: aye, thakns
<stlsaint> thanks even
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<stlsaint> im having a issue with signing my package
<stlsaint> gpg --list-keys shows that i have keys there but when i try and sign i get error:
<stlsaint> gpg: /tmp/debsign.X8IR3dyh/lxdm_0.3.0-0ubuntu5.1.dsc: clearsign failed: secret key not available
<stlsaint> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<jtaylor> stlsaint: are you passing the correct keyid?
<stlsaint> jtaylor: hrm i thought so i will double check again
<stlsaint> jtaylor: is the syntax: debuild -S -k <id> -sa
<jtaylor> -k<id> no space (but not sure if that is required
<StevenK> I think either work
<stlsaint> StevenK: nope, cannot be a space
<stlsaint> jtaylor: as always thank you
<stlsaint> HA! Built a package and now i have no idea where pbuilder placed the .deb
<directhex> ..
<stlsaint> directhex: its not .../result
<stlsaint> directhex: i used a different pbuilder and forgot to use the --buildresult option
<arand> stlsaint: /var/cache/pbuilder/result/ ?
<arand> stlsaint: That's the default locatin.
<stlsaint> arand: yea but me fiddling around with my pbuidlerrc trying to configure multiple pbuilders has my stuff rearranged
<stlsaint> ima fix it all in a min
<arand> Ah, :)
<stlsaint> would anyone mind taking a look at my pbuilder to see if something is wrong
<stlsaint> i have it moved to /root/.pbuilderrc due to errors before and now it seems like its not doing what i want it to
<l3on> Hello.. I'm going to upgrade natty at oneiric, but something is wrong with apt:
<l3on> The following packages will be REMOVED:
<l3on>   eclipse eclipse-cdt eclipse-jdt eclipse-pde eclipse-platform eclipse-plugin-cvs evolution evolution-exchange evolution-plugins-experimental libgvfscommon0 libperl5.10
<l3on>   libpurple0 pidgin-skype telepathy-haze
<l3on> what the hell? why eclipse / evolution / pidgin_skype and others will be removed?
<jtaylor> l3on: please read this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1751299
<Laney> !ubuntu+1
<ubottu> Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04 - Natty has been released! - Support in #ubuntu
<Laney> err
<broder> haha
<arand> l3on: Repository turbulence, likely.
<l3on> thanks jtaylor
<l3on> arand: turbulence during from few weeks :P
<l3on> I remember that 2 days after natty release I changed repository to oenric, but I was unable to upgrade due to eclipse error :/
<arand> l3on: Hmm, it may be eclipse having inmproper dependency specifications...
<Laney> churn in the development release is expected
<Laney> and such questions are better placed in #ubuntu+1
<RainCT> nhandler: Hey. I can sponsor if needed (keyring package).
 * micahg is going bonkers from doing build tests before requesting a sync and then getting build failures when the sync happens...
<doctormo> Hey guys, I have a python package which I'm packaging up for debian/ubuntu
<doctormo> It provides a number of plugins for different image programs, so I'm using a seperate deb for each plugin and a central library deb for the main python library
<doctormo> The problem is I don't know how to correctly set up the distutils and the debian packaging to do this.
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<tumbleweed> doctormo: which package is it, and what excatly are you having trouble with?
<doctormo> tumbleweed: lp:dastash basically the trouble I think is between the release name 'dastash' and the deb package name 'python-dastash'
<tumbleweed> yes, if it should be called python-dastash
<tumbleweed> are you working on the packaging in that branch?
<doctormo> tumbleweed: I am yes, I just pushed what I have so far.
<tumbleweed> doctormo: firstly; to be able to import dastash, you need to build-depend on everything it needs to be importable
<tumbleweed> (an easy workaround there is to read the .py file and look for '__version__ = ' instead of importing it.
<doctormo> I see
<tumbleweed> also, you need to import setup from distutils.core (or setuptools if you need it)
<doctormo> tumbleweed: Yes I fix that in rev 8, pushed rev 9 now.
<tumbleweed> doctormo: next issue, your setup.py doesn't actually install anything, that's why you are having trouble with the other packages
<doctormo> tumbleweed: It should be at least installing the one script and one module shown.
<doctormo> But it doesn't even do that.
<tumbleweed> it installs one script, by the look of it
<doctormo> tumbleweed: Nothing appears in any of the deb files
<tumbleweed> doctormo: worry about that later. Start by looking at what gets installed into build
<doctormo> hmm, so far, just the script
<tumbleweed> btw, you really shouldn't be using Provides: ${python:Provides}. That's for special, very rare, situations. And you probably should be using dh_python2 for a new package, instead of python-support. But let's get it working first...
<doctormo> tumbleweed: The provides/deps were removed, pull a fresh version.
<tumbleweed> doctormo: hint: it's not called "modules"
<doctormo> Do I presume I put all the other files into setup.py too as data?
<doctormo> (I had thought the install scripts would cover those, but aprrently not)
<tumbleweed> you can install them with setup.py or dh_install. But if you install them with setup.py you'll need dh_install them into the correct packages anyway, so there's really no point in doing it with setup.py unless you want to make life easier for people installing on other distributions
<doctormo> tumbleweed: I figured that was the case, but it doesn't want to work and I can't see the issue.
<tumbleweed> doctormo: dh_install: gimp-plugin-dastash missing files (gimp/*.py), aborting
<tumbleweed> ^ that's really very simple. There is no such file (gimp is empty)
<doctormo> tumbleweed: I'd made some dumy files which is why I never saw that error, I've commited them now.
<doctormo> The problem is, I think dh_install can't find my files to package them
<doctormo> And I don't think the python debhelpers can package it correctly because my package is called python-sdstash.
<doctormo> Ah wait, the inkscape plugin is the one missing files.
<doctormo> OK so I have everything but the python module, it doesn't want to be installed by dh_install, but it won't be installed via anything else either.
<doctormo> It's like it's a bunch of floating files in build which won't be nailed down to the package in debian/control
<persia> Is the set of files deterministic?
<keffie_jayx> Been trying to create a debootstrap for Onieric in a Lucid machine using pbuilder. But it complains about not having the Onieric script. this means that some of the tools have not been ported to lucid?
<jtaylor> just copy any other script to the name of oneiric
<jtaylor> there all the same
<jtaylor> (their all symlinks to gutsy)
<arand> doctormo: Are you still having issues with the inkscape-plugins one?
<doctormo> arand: I think the inkscape plugin is going in the right place, but the python module isn't.
<keffie_jayx> jtaylor: thanks :)
<arand> doctormo: Hmm, seems I was wrong in my hunch why it wasn't working, sorry...
<doctormo> arand: Thanks for having a look anyway
<doctormo> I still have no clue how setup.py links to debian/control
<persia> doctormo, It doesn't.  setup.py is executed with appropriate arguments to drop stuff in a to-be-packaged staging area.  If there is one binary package, this entire staging area is stuffed into a package.  If there are multiple binary packages, dh_install extracts bits from the shared staging area into staging areas for each binary package.
<maco> foo.install files can be used to tell which binary package each file goes in
<doctormo> so I need to make a dh_install thing for the python lib somehow? are there any examples?
<persia> just create a debian/python-whatever.install file that lists all the files you want to end up in the package by relative path (e.g. usr/bin/wrapper).  Wildcards are accepted.
<doctormo> persia: It's not the user/bin that worries me, it's the /usr/share/pyshared/ -> /usr/lib/python2.6/blah links and so on.
<ScottK> You should let your python helper handle those bits.
<doctormo> ScottK: How?
<ScottK> If you've got a proper setup.py then it should be roughly automagical.
<ScottK> dh $@ --with python2 may be sufficient.
<ScottK> (if you're using dh_python2, which I do recommend)
<ScottK> That's for a package with one binary.
<ScottK> For a package with multiple binaries it's slightly more tricky.
<ScottK> You can use pyspf as an example for that.
<doctormo> Thanks for the example
<doctormo> OK I think just stuffing the module into pyshared is sufficient according to the example and my testing.
<doctormo> Sometimes automagic is as alchemy.
<doctormo> Thanks for your help persia, ScottK and maco
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<ScottK> BTW, that probably won't work for Maverick, but should be fine for Natty.
<arand> doctormo: Bit late but http://paste.debian.net/117419/ seems to get things working via a .install file
<arand> Well provided that is where the files should end up..
<doctormo> arand: The second line is correct, but if you put the python module directly into python2.6 it'll cause issues. Maybe.
 * arand looks innocent, knowing barely a word of python
<ScottK> Yeah.   Don't do that.
<ScottK> python2.7 is the default in Natty, so it wouldn't work for that.
<paultag> ScottK: how dare you do that. Don't you know Debian still has 2.6?
<paultag> ;)
<ScottK> Sigh.
<Rhonda> Ubuntu is always the python (and gcc toolchain) testbed for Debian, did noone tell you yet?
<paultag> it'd funnier if someone had actually not said that
<paultag> Rhonda: :)
<ajmitch> Rhonda: causing trouble again?
<Rhonda> Me? Never!
<Rhonda> ajmitch: Actually I'm a bit puzzled by that question, to be honest.
<ajmitch> Rhonda: hm?
<Rhonda> Either I read it wrong, or I don't understand what you try to imply.
<ajmitch> Rhonda: that what you wrote could be jokingly trolling :)
 * persia suspects morning sarcasm to be colliding with late-night worries
 * ajmitch is still waking up & drinking caffeine
<Rhonda> ajmitch: So then what about the "again" part?
<ajmitch> I was joking
<Rhonda> More seriously, there's nothing bed with Ubuntu switching some things earlier than Debian. In some sense this is one of the ereas where Ubuntu is giving back a lot to Debian in the sense of sent patches for future troubles.
<Rhonda> s/bed/bad/
<Rhonda> It's _me_ who should in bed, I guess.
<ajmitch> heh
<Rhonda> See, it's only trolling if you want to take it as such. But as one person who has received a few of these forwarded bugs for toolchain changes, I'm very grateful about that Ubuntu takes the lead in this area. :)
<ScottK> This got started by a certain DD complaining yesterday that Ubuntu trying to help fix RC bugs in Debian so that the Python transitions can get done faster in Debian is Ubuntu telling Debian what to do.
 * ajmitch shall just be quiet & do work instead :)
<ScottK> (and no, I don't understand it either)
 * ajmitch was in that channel at the time
<Laney> evening all
<ajmitch> hi Laney
<Rhonda> ScottK: Oh, then my tongue-in-cheek comment (even if the background from my side is an appretiation of the effort) was with a bad timing. Sorry for that then.
<ScottK> No problem.
<rockclimb123> I uploaded a new version of a package to Debian unstable yesterday. Any idea how often the sync to Ubuntu takes place?
<arand> rockclimb123: Pretty often I think (suncing of my AC upload was within a day or two)
<rockclimb123> OK, thanks
<broder> rockclimb123: syncs are run by hand by an ubuntu archive admin, usually once a day during this stage of the ubuntu cycle
<rockclimb123> Excellent, I was hoping it would be daily. The version in Ubuntu won't build right now because of a missing dependency.
<ajmitch> is it unmodified in ubuntu?
<rockclimb123> Yes. The dependency got renamed in Debian, but the binary packages are still hanging around in unstable so I didn't pick it up.
<rockclimb123> Actually I think some changes are probably needed to the dependency too to make upgrades work properly - I'll figure that out next.
<jtaylor> is bug 782414 ready to request a SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 782414 in Tahoe-LAFS "tahoe-lafs can't start because foolscap packaging metadata doesn't declare the fact that it supports secure_connections" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/782414
<ScottK> jtaylor: Do you need to build-dep on python-setuptools or just python-pkg-resources?
<jtaylor> ScottK: setuptools, the setup.py tries to import it and only then sets the requires
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Then yes.  I'd say so.
<ScottK> I accepted the nomination for Natty.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-20
<jtaylor> how do I proceed now. propose the branch for merge and let the sponsor subscribe sru or subscribe them myself?
<nhandler> Thanks RainCT. Somehow, I don't think I'll have much trouble with this package based on the ML feedback, but I'll definitely keep you in mind when I am ready
<micahg> jtaylor: propose the branch for merge and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<micahg> jtaylor: oops, no need to subscribe when proposing a merge
<micahg> jtaylor: I'll be piloting in a bit, so I can run this through if it's ready
<jtaylor> micahg: merge proposed
<jtaylor> binary debdiff is just egg-file -> egg-folder with all the setuptools stuff in it
<micahg> jtaylor: thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<jtaylor> micahg: I can't reproduce that foolscap problem in chroot, natty and oneiric, anything special you did?
<Laney> hwo can I view patches to a package in fedora? anything like the PTS?
 * Laney found pkgs.fedoraproject.org
<RAOF> Oh, is that useful?  I always trawl the git.
<Laney> it got me to the git in the end
<Laney> Rhonda: is it known that packages.d.o's file search is broken for experimental? http://packages.debian.org/search?suite=experimental&mode=exactfilename&searchon=contents&keywords=csharp should return results, for example
<Rhonda> hmmm
<Rhonda> huhm, http://packages.debian.org/experimental/all/mono-csharp-shell/filelist
<Rhonda> That's there since a month, right â¦
<Rhonda> Laney: Can you file a bug about that, please? against www.debian.org
<Laney> sure
<Rhonda> Thanks. Not much time now to investigate further.
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<stlsaint> im getting this error when trying to upload changes file with dput: No host ppa:stlsaint/packagesources found in config
<arand> stlsaint: Is this from debians dput (does not support normal ppa syntax)?
<stlsaint> arand: yes i am on debian
<arand> stlsaint: You can specify PPAs individually http://paste.debian.net/117487/
<arand> Alternatively, port over the PPA argument magic from the ubuntu version into debian ;)
<stlsaint> arand: is that the dput conf?
<arand> stlsaint: ~/.dput.cf  yes
<stlsaint> arand: aye gotcha
<stlsaint> arand: is it suppose to be blank at first?
<arand> stlsaint: yes, /etc/dput.cf is read initially ~/.dput.cf overrides/adds, I assume..
<stlsaint> arand: so where you have ubuntu should i have debian?
<stlsaint> arand: i tried running and it still gave same error
<arand> stlsaint: I'm also on debian, your's should be very similar, just replacing ppa names (redeclipse ppa unstable, in my case)
<stlsaint> arand: i changed everything but still same error, same as yours except i change the name and ppa on all three stanzas
<arand> The title in [] is the one to use when dputting, eg, "dput ppa-unstable *.dsc In my case to upload to my ppa:arand/unstable"
<stlsaint> arand: hrm one sec
<stlsaint> arand: this is command im using: dput ppa:stlsaint/packagesources lxdm_0.3.0-0ubuntu5.1_i386.changes
<arand> stlsaint: You want to replace the "ppa:stlsaint/packagesources" with whatever to named the entry for that ppa (in my case, e.g. just "resvn")
<stlsaint> arand: so i have a ppa on lp name packagesources, that should go in place of where you have resvn?
<arand> stlsaint: the thing within [] can be anything, but that is the name you will have to use when nivoking dput.
<arand> Gotta run, sorry
<stlsaint> here is the commadn i use:  dput ppa:stlsaint/packagesources lxdm_0.3.0-0ubuntu5.1_i386.changes
<stlsaint> shucks
<stlsaint> dang im slow
<stlsaint> arand: i see what you were saying now
<stlsaint> i fixed that but now im getting something about no signature on that file but signed the package at build
<stlsaint> crap never mind on that either
<mnemoc> hi, I want to push to a ppa a fixed version of a package, tp_smapi. Is there any easy trick (debuild -something?) to help the infrastrcture to notice the diff?
<mnemoc> any docu related to this case?
<mnemoc> wrong channel? :)
<micahg> jtaylor: I built the package locally, could be I broke something, I'll push up to my SRU PPA to see if I get the same failure
<jtaylor> micahg: wait I think I want to add a small change to the patch
<jtaylor> the dependency on python-twisted is too strong, it only needs -core and -web
<jtaylor> it just slipped in in the dh_python2 transition
<jtaylor> or would that change also first have to be uploaded to debian? in this case its probably not worth it
<micahg> jtaylor: changes must be made in the dev release first
<jtaylor> then one can probably ignore it, it just installes a few extra packages
<micahg> jtaylor: yeah, that's not worth fixing in an SRU
<micahg> jtaylor: but Debian should get the fix if appropriate
<jtaylor> yes going to commit it to the vcs soon
<arand> stlsaint: Sorry for rushing off, you got it working?
<stlsaint> arand: well the command went thru but there is still nothing in my ppa
<stlsaint> arand: though it said upload was successful
<arand> stlsaint: And the build queue is empty as well, and yo've received no confirmation by email?
<arand> Hmm, yea it appears to be completely empty...
<arand> stlsaint: The source (debiuld -S) is signed with one of the gpg keys that are specified on LP as well?
<stlsaint> arand: yes
<arand> Then I'm not quite sure, I think then you'd have followed the same procedure as I normally do, and unless LP is in flux currently, I don't know what the issue would be .. :/
<stlsaint> arand: cool thanks
<micahg> jtaylor: confirmed, I get the error on upgrading python-foolscap
<jtaylor> I don't, what could be the cause? it upgrades in debian and a clean chroot and a oneiric vm
<micahg> jtaylor: this is for the natty SRU
<jtaylor> yes thats what I tried
<jtaylor> also they are practially the same
<micahg> no idea, I haven't come across this before
<jtaylor> the only difference is a dropped breaks which was empty anyway
<jtaylor> does the version in oneiric install an your natty machine?
 * micahg can check
<micahg> jtaylor: yep, that worked
<jtaylor> oO
<jtaylor> I don't get why it doesn't happen on my machine, but I guess I need to add a Break: python-foolscap (<< 0.6.1-3)
<micahg> jtaylor: that version won't work for the SRU, I wonder what the difference is
<jtaylor> lets see if I can get piuparts to run
<jtaylor> friggn piuparts, worked once with the debian version and now it fails on the same file with some weird unrelated error ...
<jtaylor> micahg: as I can't reproduce the problem can you try adding that to the control: http://paste.ubuntu.com/610697/
<jtaylor> althout it should not be necessary ...
<micahg> jtaylor: yep, in a bit, about to head out for lunch
<evaluate> Hello.
<evaluate> I was wondering if Bug 702316 is under review and if maybe there is anything else that I need to do for the patch to get applied.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 702316 in clipit (Ubuntu Natty) "Generic Libindicate fallback support breaks applications (such as clipit) on non-Unity WMs/DEs" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/702316
<micahg> evaluate: yeah, I have the patches, I just need to test build and upload
<evaluate> micahg, cool.
<broder> evaluate: you did everything right, the process has just been a little laggier than usual because of the recent release, UDS, etc.
<micahg> evaluate: sorry, my piloting ran a little late, so I figured to wait until today to upload
<micahg> but since I already looked at it, wanted to claim it
<evaluate> micahg, would enabling the indicator need a patch too?
<micahg> evaluate: hmm, technically, probably should be since it's 2 different things
<evaluate> Thing is, I disabled it by default in the source package, since it generated a lot of problems for maverick/lucid, but I think it should work fine in natty, so it would be nice if it was enabled by default.
<micahg> evaluate: right, and it seems that it was supposed to be enabled in the last upload but I don't think the merger noticed your source change
<evaluate> ok, so what would be the right thing to do to have it enabled in this case?
<evaluate> Should I submit another patch? Or edit the current patch?
<micahg> evaluate: have a named patch to enable the indicator and a named patch to fix the crash
<micahg> evaluate: if you want to fix it up, I can grab it over the weekend
<evaluate> Can I leave the current patch as it is and submit another one for enabling the indicator, or do you want me to also rename the current one?
<micahg> evaluate: I thought the current one enables it
<micahg> all in one patch that is
<evaluate> Ohh, yes it does.
<evaluate> Forgot that I also had that change in there.
<micahg> oh, it's set to auto, not yes, but I think with the build flag we're good
<evaluate> Well, auto means that if the appindicator-0.1 package is present (which is set as a build-dep in ubuntu) it will default to yes.
<evaluate> ok then, so can I leave the patch as it is?
<micahg> evaluate: yeah, are you going to push these changes into Debian as well?
<evaluate> Yes. I have sent the 1.3.13 version which includes these changes to my mentor, but it couldn't be uploaded due to some transitions going on in Debian and now I didn't bug him anymore about it since I want to roll out 1.4.0 soon anyway.
<micahg> evaluate: k, I'll upload this to oneiric later today or over the weekend so we can get the SRU in
<evaluate> Good. Thank you very much!
<micahg> evaluate: thank you for your work!
<micahg> evaluate: actually, I might move the enable indicator piece out since it's not part of the upstream patch, but I can do that locally
<evaluate> Yeah, I enabled the indicator only in the 1.4 branch.
<micahg> jtaylor: works now...
<jtaylor> strange, it should not need that and why does the oneiric version work
<micahg> jtaylor: no idea
<micahg> jtaylor: if you want to have someone else test, I have the original in ppa:micahg/sru-test
<jtaylor> ok from there I could reproduce it
<micahg> jtaylor: cool :)
<Quintasan> bdrung_: ping
<micahg> jtaylor: so, do you want to discuss with some python gurus if the breaks/replaces is correct or if there's a better fix for this?
<jtaylor> #debian-python says no replace needed, but I'll just check whats the difference to the package I built
<micahg> jtaylor: k, well, you can show them the package in the PPA and the error and see if they change their minds :)
<bdrung_> Quintasan: pong
<Quintasan> bdrung_: sponsor-patch is broken I think
<Quintasan> sponsor-patch --builder=pbuilder-dist 712534 --workdir kamoso
<Quintasan> AssertionError: kamoso/kamoso_2.0-0ubuntu2.dsc does not exist.
<Quintasan> ls kamoso/kamoso_2.0-0ubuntu2.dsc -> kamoso/kamoso_2.0-0ubuntu2.dsc
<Quintasan> the file is there
<bdrung_> Quintasan: that is fixed in trunk. can you file a bug report and add the needed stuff for a SRU?
<Quintasan> bdrung_: well, I can, but later, uploading 24mb bug stacktrace now @_@
<bdrung_> Quintasan: thanks
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: we need a online test infrastructure for these kind of bugs ^
<Quintasan> bdrung_: the version for SRU should be 0.123?
 * Quintasan notes you might as well upload that to oneiric
<bdrung_> Quintasan: 0.122.1
<bdrung_> Quintasan: http://paste.ubuntu.com/610750/
<Quintasan> oh
<Quintasan> bdrung_: bug 785923
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 785923 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu Natty) "[SRU]ubuntu-dev-tools update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785923
<Quintasan> I think I'm doing it right
<Quintasan> bdrung_: Are you going to upload a newer version to oneiric soon?
<bdrung_> Quintasan: yes
<Quintasan> cool
<bdrung_> Quintasan: uploaded to proposed
<Quintasan> oh wait..what? so fast
<Quintasan> :D
<bdrung_> Quintasan: in rare cases :)
<Quintasan> :)
<bdrung_> broder: re bug #785854 - what's the reason for the broken pipe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 785854 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[sponsor-patch] (and probably others) don't reset SIGPIPE when shelling out" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785854
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: what was the issue you say we need testing for?
<tumbleweed> oh that one
 * tumbleweed sees the paste
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: btw i am releasing 0.123
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: i give a few seconds to veto
<tumbleweed> cool
<broder> bdrung_: because diff got to the end of its input? there are a bunch of programs that expect SIGPIPE, not EPIPE
<broder> cjwatson walks through the basics at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/2009-07-02-python-sigpipe.html
<broder> because python changes the SIGPIPE handler, and signal handlers don't get reset on fork/exec, the program that expects SIGPIPE starts getting EPIPE instead, and gets confused
<tumbleweed> meh, we probably need to work around that in a bunch of places (or wrap subprocess, or use this subprocess32 backport)
<broder> tumbleweed: i may have a subprocess wrapper that resets a bunch of generally undesirable behavior
<broder> i need to dig it up
<bdrung_> but why doesn't it always fail?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: it'd only be an issue if the pipeline shuts down before the processes are done
<tumbleweed> i.e. if we stop being interested in output
<broder> bdrung_: there's some raciness involved. i don't remember the details
<tumbleweed> I guess it also breaks subprocess' childern
<broder> right, that would be what's happening here, i think
<tumbleweed> yeah
<jtaylor> micahg: not even break works for me when installing from a ppa, but conflicts seems to work. I'll try to understand that and then probably go over debian
<jtaylor> (although its not affected, I don't know why)
<shadeslayer> hi! i can't seem to be able to build avogadro with oneiric in a pbuilder, is there a problem with the gcc package ?
<shadeslayer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/610811/ << error in pbuilder
<broder> shadeslayer: update your pbuilder
<shadeslayer> afaik it's updated, but i'll check again
<shadeslayer> bleh ... outdated mirrir
<shadeslayer> *mirror
<shadeslayer> broder: didn't work
<shadeslayer> same issue
<broder> shadeslayer: all that error means is that the gcc packages you have installed don't match the version of the gcc packages in the archive
<broder> although it could be a publishing skew issue of some sort
<shadeslayer> okay, but i switched to the main archives
<broder> i know doko was in the middle of updating gcc for something, so maybe just wait a day
<shadeslayer> yeah looks like it
<micahg> jtaylor: you should use breaks w/replaces
<jtaylor> micahg: does not work
<jtaylor> micahg: only conflicts
<jtaylor> micahg: debian work fine, Im slowly thinking this is a dpkg bug
<jtaylor> tries to remove a file from the new package instead of the old
<micahg> jtaylor: breaks/replaces works for me with the package I built locally upgrading from the one in the repo
<jtaylor> micahg: not for me, its kind of a heisenbug, as earlier I could not reproduce it to begin with
<jtaylor> http://paste.ubuntu.com/610839/
<micahg> jtaylor: weird, upgrading from natty to oneiric version was fine, upgrading to version in my PPA + breaks/replaces was fine for me
<jtaylor> yes my oneiric vm worked fine too
<jtaylor> and according to debian policy it should work without the breaks too
<jtaylor> (which it does in debian)
<micahg> bdrung_: any reason for me not to upload the eclipse FTBFS fix over the weekend?
<bdrung_> micahg: no
<bdrung_> micahg: can you check if 3.6.2 is affected too? (master-3.6 git branch)
<micahg> bdrung_: k, thanks
<bdrung_> i have only amd64
<bdrung_> (and there it builds)
<micahg> bdrung_: idk if I'll be able to get to it, but I'll see
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-21
<jtaylor> ok this is driving me insane, I have to packages which are friggin! identical and on upgrades the other does not
<jtaylor> the only difference is the changelog!
<micahg> jtaylor: I'll be back in about 27 hours
<jtaylor> ubuntu, now with dpkg replaced by /dev/urandom
<jtaylor> bug 786032, I have probably missed something embarassingly obvious, but to me these two packages ought not to behave differently -.-
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 786032 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "dpkg treats two identical packages differently" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/786032
<jbicha> jtaylor: are you still around?
<jbicha> you're diffing deb's instead of diffing the source, foolscap -3 has an extra breaks line in debian/control
<duanedeisgn> morninal all
<jtaylor> jbicha: the attached -3 has no extra breaks line
<G> hmmm, is it me or is there no ability to pass '-sa' to bzr-buildpackage?
<RAOF> G: It's just you (although it's not obvious) - due to the vagaries of bzr's paramater handling, you need to do âbzr bd $STUFF -- -saâ.  ie: separate it with --.
<G> RAOF: ah ha! massive thanks!
<G> RAOF: entering it into my file of things I really should know right now :)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: around?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: I am now
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: i am waiting for "[stefanor] Ask derivatives front desk for distro-info naming help"
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: i am currently moving scripts around and want to put distro-info back into a separate package, but i need the final name for it
<tumbleweed> ah, right
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-22
<ScottK> RAOF: I'd have said it's a really odd interface that's at fault (and yes, I did file a bug about this)
<RAOF> ScottK: I rather thought I *did* blame it on the odd interface, but perhaps I was too roundabout about it :)
<ScottK> OK.
<evaluate> Is there a way I can get more permissions on launchpad for a specific package?
<evaluate> I for example can't mark a bug as 'Won't fix'...
<evaluate> although I guess this might belong on #launchpad
<tumbleweed> evaluate: you need to join Ubuntu Bug Control. MOTUs are automatically members. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
<evaluate> I am not a MOTU, I'll go through that wiki and see what I need to do. Thanks!
<hakermania> I need testers :P Does this outputs your wireless interface? : http://paste.ubuntu.com/611500/
<arand> hannesw: my output is eth0, i.e: not
<arand> hannesw: sorry meant for hakermania
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-14
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<dholbach> made it back in one piece?
<ajmitch> I think so
<ajmitch> how was your flight home?
<dholbach> not too bad - direct flight to Frankfurt, then took the train to Berlin
<geser> dholbach, ajmitch: good morning/evening and welcome back :)
<ajmitch> hey geser :)
<dholbach> when I arrived last night in Berlin I thought "you're so tired, you'll sleep until the morning - you'll be fine"
<ajmitch> hah
<dholbach> apparently I was wrong about that :-P
<ajmitch> doesn't work like that, does it?
 * ajmitch has the remnants of the dreaded ubuflu, didn't make flying a lot of fun
<dholbach> at least I managed to dodge that bullet
<dholbach> so I won't complain too much about waking up at 1:50 :)
 * ajmitch was worried that he left the laptop charger at the hotel, but it was buried at the bottom of the suitcase
<philipballew> i did the same with the laptop ajmitch . Without it, my laptoo is just a doorstop
<menesis> nvidia-current
<highvoltage> good morning
<vibhav> o/
<Laney> greetings highvoltage
<vibhav> Laney: You work for Canonical?
<Laney> allegedly
<vibhav> allegedly?
<bregma_> I think he's referring to the "work" part
<Laney> :-)
<vibhav> I still did not get it, but congrats!
<highvoltage> broder: we should talk about those facebook ads some time :)
<highvoltage> does G+ have ads yet? (I don't see any but that might be a plugin), would be nice to compare the results of the two
 * tumbleweed has a feeling that he's got a late showing of ubuflu
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: you should probably take a day to recover before it ruins your holiday. I had ubuflu emerging on wednesday and just ate lots of fruit, drank lots of water, took one of dolbach's pills and went to bed early and I was fine again in the morning
<sladen>  /win goto kuroi
<broder> highvoltage: yes, definitely. i think we may need to rope in dholbach or someone else with bits on the ubuntu page to do it properly
<highvoltage> yeah
<jtaylor> is there a git-completions equivalent for bzr?
<broder> jtaylor: eval "$(bzr bash-completion)"
<broder> (is that what you're asking about?)
<jtaylor> broder: thx, I'm actually searching for the PS1 status stuff git-completion provides
<broder> ah, wasn't familiar with that. nvm, then :)
<jtaylor> you should I consider its one of gits killer features :)
<jtaylor> hm its probably not such a good idea given that bzr st takes ~ 0.5s on a regular sized repo
<lifeless> jtaylor: do you have the C extensions?
<lifeless> jtaylor: if so, then it might be a slow plugin
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-15
<micahg> jbicha: you might want to update your application to include why you're going for MOTU rights specifically
<micahg> especially since you can already upload desktop-extra and desktop
<micahg> jbicha: also keep in mind that the new spin will get a packageset as well
<micahg> jbicha: well, in time when it becomes officialish :)
<jbicha> micahg: because it's annoying not to be able to upload to stuff not in those sets :)
<micahg> jbicha: it would be good to show some examples of that sponsored work then
<jbicha> ok, I'll try to make it more MOTU-specific tomorrow
<micahg> jbicha: thanks
<micahg> jbicha: will June 4 at 14:00 UTC be ok? (FYI, this time/date might change, but we'll give notice)
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<ScottK> Heh.  /me is in -0900, so it's not even late at night yet.
<ScottK> No.  That's wrong.  I'm on -1000.
<iulian> Morning dholbach, geser.
<iulian> Hey ScottK.
<ScottK> Hello iulian.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<geser> Hi iulian
<highvoltage> good morning
<nigelb> Hey highvoltage
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> I have a big issue on building a package
<EvilResistance> alo21:  details?
<EvilResistance> ::
<EvilResistance> :P *
<EvilResistance> details are important :P
<alo21> EvilResistance: well... How long does packaging take?
<EvilResistance> depends on the package :P
<alo21> EvilResistance: for example amule?
<EvilResistance> i've had packages that are HUGE and needed 30 minutes to fully build
<EvilResistance> alo21:  wouldn't know until i tried
<EvilResistance> but i'm not in Ubuntu atm
<EvilResistance> if i were i'd test
<EvilResistance> i think the one that needed 30 minutes to build was ruby...
<EvilResistance> but that was the compiler/interpreter for ruby ;P
<EvilResistance> other than that, most of the packages i've had to build are small, and are done within ten minutes
 * EvilResistance checks the package name
<alo21> EvilResistance: may be I solved it
<EvilResistance> how so?
<EvilResistance> if you have specific questions outside of "Length of build time" i can probably answer
<EvilResistance> because build time is dependent on system speed, packaging system, resource usage, etc.
<alo21> EvilResistance: you right... my old issue was that
<alo21> the pbuilding takes 30 seconds, but it did not give me any .deb file
<EvilResistance> well which 'amule' are you building
<EvilResistance> if you're building the one from Quantal, it doesnt look like it builds right
<alo21> now it seems all ok... i wait
<EvilResistance> alo21:  remember to use --buildresult [path] arguments wiht your pbuilder build statement
<alo21> EvilResistance: Precise, and I am building amule 2.3.1
<EvilResistance> there's two 2.3.1's
<EvilResistance> one ofr Preise and one for Quantal (from sid)
<EvilResistance> 2.3.1-7 and 2.3.1-12
<EvilResistance> -1 *
<alo21> EvilResistance: 2.3.1-1
<EvilResistance> 2.3.1-7 is in Quantal, and that's not working/building
<EvilResistance> ah, good, if you had said -7 i'd be a little bit concenred :P
<EvilResistance> concerned*
<alo21> EvilResistance: thanks for your support
<EvilResistance> mhm
<geser> Rhonda: packages.ubuntu.com seems to be broken again (it was just mentioned in #ubuntu-devel), search for "linux" doesn't find anything and e.g. http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/admin/alien gives an "Internal Server Error"
<geser> and didn't you fix the email address in that error page? it still show the wrong one
<cousteau> also I wonder what happened with package descriptions in versions after Natty...  now only the short description appears
<geser> cousteau: package description got split from the main package listing, but I don't remember if support for them got added to packages.ubuntu.com
<verwilst> i would like to create  a appindicator thingy myself, and use the count bubbles inside the menu
<verwilst> anyone knows how to do that with the python bindings?
<valdur55> verwilst, look ubutnu wiki  page :)
<valdur55> !wiki appindicator
<valdur55> verwilst, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators - here!
<verwilst> valdur55, i've seen em all
<verwilst> i'm able to create an app, it's only that count bubble
<verwilst> i think it's only possible for the messaging im thing anyways
<valdur55> verwilst, please explain your problem
<verwilst> i want to add a menu item on my appindicator app that has like "My Items    (  2  )"
<verwilst> the (  2  ) can be seen in the empathy/thunderbird/.. messaging appindicator applet
<verwilst> the round bubble with the counter
<verwilst> but i can't seem to create one myself
<valdur55> why you don't look messaging menu source code?
<verwilst> i would if i knew where the source is stored :)
<verwilst> and also, i think it's a limitation for python-indicate
<valdur55> apt-get source package  :)
<valdur55> and dpkg-dev is depency
<verwilst> yeah, but what's the package
<verwilst> unity as a whole?
<verwilst> libappindicator-dev i guess
<valdur55> Messaging appindicator : apt-get source indicator-messages
<valdur55> it's not written in python. But maybe you get some ideas from it :)
<AlanBell> wendar and anyone else who was looking for it, http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/actions.txt which is grepped from http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/uds-q.tar.gz which is the content of every pad from UDS-Q
<Laney> can anyone make an sftp connection to people.u.c?
<micahg> Laney: yes
<Laney> hrm
<Laney> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
<Laney> Couldn't read packet: Connection reset by peer
<Laney> oh
 * Laney eyes sshebang
<Laney> indeed.
<ajmitch> Laney: wfm from nautilus
<Laney> I had a jumphost set up which didn't work
<Laney> works now
<cousteau> Rhonda, packages.ubuntu.com is still broken...
<cousteau> never mind.  (stupid firefox caching the page...)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-16
<wendar> AlanBell: you rock, thanks! (for the tarball)
<broder> stgraber: haha. way to grab bug #1e6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<broder> no, not that one :-P
<ajmitch> silly bot
<stgraber> :)
<Rhonda> hah, again self-fixed problem, love those. :)
<wookey_> I have an ubuntu package which uses dh-translations and thus calls dh -Spython_distutils --with python2,translations
<wookey_> dh-translations does not exist in debian
<wookey_> the rules file can easily be fixed up with dpkg-vendor
<wookey_> but I see no clean way to deal with the difference in build-deps.
<wookey_> Do lots of ubuntu packages have a delta adding dh-translations as a build-dep?
<wookey_> Is there a better way to deal with this? (package is usb-creator)
<wookey_> Also there are xml .ui files for gtk and kde. where it would be useful to insert either Ubuntu or Debian as approporiate. Is there a neat way to do this (nicer than sedding ui.in files in rules)?
<geser> wookey_: I guess you need a source package for Debian and one for Ubuntu then
<geser> but if you manage this package in a VCS you could create an Ubuntu branch with all the needed Ubuntu delta (labels, build-deps, etc.) and rebase it on every new package revision
<Daviey> wookey_: conditional symlink based on lsb distro?
<Laney> you can have the build system substitute in based on a configure flag
<Laney> but I don't know of a solution for the build-deps.
<Adri2000> isn't it possible to have a template control file debian/control.in which regenerates debian/control at build?
<azeem_> it is discouraged I believe
<Laney> I don't see how that could work for build-deps
<Adri2000> according to http://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/27/different-dependencies-between-debian-and-ubuntu-but-common-source-package/#comment-3779 it should work, even though that's not really clean I admit
<Laney> clean isn't run until after b-ds are installed
<Laney> have a look at a build log to verify
<highvoltage> moo
 * Laney zaps highvoltage 
<highvoltage> *BZZZT*
<geser> Laney: don't produce a short circuit when playing with highvoltage
 * bregma sips his coffee
<hyperair> Zhenech: ping.
<hyperair> Zhenech: why isn't libappindicator in debian? =\
<Zhenech> hyperair, because you didnt package it </defaultanswer>
<Resistance> lol...
<hyperair> Zhenech: and the reason for that is because pkg-ayatana insists on using bzr.. Â¬_Â¬"
<hyperair> Zhenech: i thought you were maintaining the indicator stack in debian though. isn't it pretty useless without appindicator as well?
<Zhenech> no, works w/o quite good
<Zhenech> and yes, bzr sucks
<Zhenech> but makes "stealing" from ubunto so mucheasier
<hyperair> hm
<hyperair> how so?
<hyperair> you would have to merge from ubuntu into debian, and then back again, wouldn't you?
<hyperair> doesn't it get really weird there?
<geser> or upload it as 1.2.3-0debian1 :)
<Zhenech> hyperair, i always wait till ubuntu hass foo-0ubuntu1 and merge that
<hyperair> hmmmm.
<hyperair> i see
<Zhenech> super easy
<bkerensa> micahg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate <-- apparently needs some love
<tumbleweed> bkerensa: we'd love to get to thepoint where we can remove those pages and just point people at the packaging guide
<bkerensa> :D
<micahg> bkerensa: well, we have http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-merging.html#merging-a-new-upstream-version
<tumbleweed> which means either cover non_UDD workflows in the packaging-guide or get everyone usin gUDD (which requires it to work :P )
<ajmitch> it works, just not in all cases :)
<tumbleweed> fair enough
<tumbleweed> and I doubt we could call the traditional way of doing things "working" when there's a multi-k-line diff in a 1.0 source package
 * ajmitch would like for a good solution to bzr+quilt that works for every package, but that requires some work
<tumbleweed> it sounds like we know what it might be, but nobody is putting the work in
<ajmitch> sounds like a great opportunity for someone who likes pain :)
<bkerensa> ;p
 * tumbleweed bets the git people get there first. there's certainly way more experementation on that side of the fence
<ajmitch> then we can move all ubuntu branches to git?
<tumbleweed> launchpad has to support it first :)
<ajmitch> mere details
<tumbleweed> not that I'm a bzr hater. But I quite like git too
<tumbleweed> and it appears to have won
<Laney> there was a "talk to" item about the .pc ignoring stopgap
<Laney> that certainly seems more likely than making looms work
<ajmitch> Laney: right, I can't recall if the importer was going to unapply patches
<tumbleweed> definitly sounds like there are stopgaps that'll make things a lot better
<ajmitch> looms seem like a nice-to-have
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: I think we decided not to do that, it would be fairly insane
<ajmitch> right
<Laney> patches would be applied, and that's what you want really
<tumbleweed> but rather to get as little of .pc in the branch as possible
<Laney> but you can construct .pc on checkout
<Laney> so it doesn't need to hit the vcs
<tumbleweed> oh, right, that
<ajmitch> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20342/foundations-q-udd/ wasn't entirely clear on which way was chosen & my memory is foggy :)
<ajmitch> aha
 * tumbleweed wasn't a great note-taker this UDS :/
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: I'm sure you did a better job than I did :)
 * tumbleweed also should have raised the debian stuff with debian-derivatives before the sessions, calling for input
<highvoltage> I wish I'd taken more notes but I was completely information-overloaded
<tumbleweed> we're bad DDs
<micahg> heh
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: there were some sessions where I volunteered to take notes and then found myself staring into space or diving into arguments and losing track of the notes
<ajmitch> good thing you grabbed the audio then
<highvoltage> well, there were /some/ sessions where you couldn't be blamed for staring into space :)
<tumbleweed> ah, btw, to get things to show up on status.ubuntu.com, all you need to do is mark the session as approved for quantal
<ajmitch> oh good
 * tumbleweed must go back and check that all his sessions are...
<ajmitch> 15% done already
<tumbleweed> not bad
 * ajmitch is 0% done, blame the ubuflu :)
 * tumbleweed is just getting over that
<Resistance> what's the methodology of enabling multiverse and universe inside a chroot, would that be adding `multiverse universe` to the apt sources.list lines in the chroots?
<tumbleweed> yes
<Resistance> indeed, just wanted to confirm
<broder> tumbleweed: so should i just set the state on my blueprint to approved?
<broder> the...definition state, i guess?
<tumbleweed> broder: no, set a "series goal"
<broder> aha
<tumbleweed> at least that worked for the debian healthcheck fo rme
 * Laney wibbles
<Laney> EVAN BRODER
<Laney> DO WE NEED TO UPDATE THE BACKPORTS DOCS TO MENTION THAT WE UPLOAD OURSELVES NOW
<Laney> ??????????????????????????????????????????????
<Laney> also, hello!
<bkerensa> >.<
 * ajmitch takes Laney's shift & capslock keys away
<broder> MR LANEY HELLO STOP
<ajmitch> Laney: I want to be a backporter pls show me how
 * Resistance raises an eyebrow
<broder> haha
<Resistance> oh...
<Resistance> for a minute i thought there was a spammer in here
<ajmitch> there was
<Laney> i can spam if you want!
 * Resistance has autonotify scripts for multiple full-caps lines
<Resistance> Laney:  UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES
<Laney> you want a ghc upload yes yes? then i get to spam you with uploads
 * tumbleweed disables capslock. it serves NO PURPOSE
 * Laney has it as compose
<Laney> there's something satisfying about holding down shift
 * Resistance lights his capslock key on fire
<ajmitch> Laney: oh we're so looking forward to another ghc transition
<broder> HELLO SIR I FROM SUDAN AND MY RICH UNCLE HAS RECENTLY DIED LEAVING ME WITH 6 GAJILLION DOLLARS PLEASE PROVIDE ME WITH YOUR BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER AND I WILL TRANSFER MONEY TO YOU
<broder> Laney: docs should probably be updated, but i'm holding off on doing so until i get a tool for AAs to use to verify things in-queue
<Resistance> broder:  now that is spam, but i got that three hundred times yesterday...
<Laney> ok then
<Laney> would you consider making backportpackage not remove the temporary directory if dput errors out?
 * micahg was about to ask what the preferred way to upload a backport is now :)
 * Laney had to download the widelands >100 meg orig a few times due to various -u fails
<ajmitch> ouch
<tumbleweed> Laney: seems fair
<micahg> Laney: use backportpackage with the .dsc :)
<ajmitch> micahg: my preferred way is to ping Laney
<micahg> ajmitch: I'm a backporter :)
<ajmitch> I'm not that special
<Resistance> and micahg and broder are my contacts for backport questions :P
<Laney> yeah, but it has this handly ability to download the package for me
<Laney> -w . works too I suppose
<Laney> want to process python-leveldb and see how you get on with uploading it?
<micahg> Laney: that's good the first time around :)
<Laney> i.e. if backportpackage does what you want
<micahg> Laney: was about to, yes, just waiting for i386 to build in quadrispro's PPA
<Laney> cool
 * micahg likes the new bug in changelog feature
<micahg> helps with the audit trail
 * ajmitch sees there's only one admin of the backporters team that's seen around here regularly
<bkerensa> micahg: any thoughts on this http://paste.ubuntu.com/991459/
<Laney> we call him The Boss
<micahg> bkerensa: a bug in setup.y?
<micahg> *setup.py
<bkerensa> it seems to be defined though
<micahg> bkerensa: no idea, maybe someone more versed in python can help
 * micahg wonders if the other 2 people in the backporters team should be removed
<micahg> oh, nm, they're MOTUs still :)
<Resistance> lol
<micahg> well, we don't want non-MOTUs/core-devs doing backports
<tumbleweed> I thought that wasn't possible?
<micahg> what's not possible
<ajmitch> micahg: there are a few people pending as backporters, what's the process for helping out?
<tumbleweed> non-MOTU / core-devs doing backports
<Laney> triage some and get scott to review your work
<micahg> tumbleweed: yeah, was worried about lapsed upload rights and what not
<eridu> hey motus, I'm watching a critical security bug for the pidgin-otr package -- I'm not sure what the protocol here is, but there's a debdiff on the bug report and an upload about to go into debian -- how could I help the fix get into Ubuntu?
<eridu> lp bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin-otr/+bug/1000363
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1000363 in pidgin-otr (Ubuntu Quantal) "CVE-2012-2369: Format string security vulnerability" [High,Confirmed]
<kees> eridu: folks in #ubuntu-hardened should be able to guide you
<eridu> kees: thanks!
<jtaylor> eridu: looks like its already taken care of, its now in the hand of the security sponsors
<eridu> oh, alright then
<jtaylor> same version in all releases makes it easy :)
<eridu> how were you able to tell that?
<eridu> I remember putting my name on a wiki page as the bug monitor or something for the pidgin-otr package, so I felt obligated to do something
<jtaylor> debfxs has posted a patch
<jtaylor> and forwarded to debian and ack'ed thare
<Resistance> anyone able to help me figure out why the heck when i pbuilder --login to the chroot, and change the apt sources.list file, the changes dont take?
<ajmitch> Resistance: forgot --save-after-login ?
<Resistance> ahhh
<jtaylor> use --save-after-login
<Resistance> probably
<Resistance> thanks
<Resistance> any way to tell pbuilder to automatically use that when i use the login command?
<jtaylor> you shouldn't
<Resistance> okay then
<Resistance> i wont :)
<jtaylor> pbuild is supposed to provide the same (clean) environment each time
<Resistance> jtaylor:  i had to enable universe / multiverse
<Resistance> so...
<Resistance> :P
<jtaylor> you can do that during creation with COMPONENTS
<jtaylor> e.g. in pbuilderrc: COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
<Resistance> huh
<Resistance> that's in my pbuilderrc
<Resistance> and its not listening each time i create the environment :/
 * Resistance smells a bug that's specific to his system
<Resistance> have the guidelines for requesting a backport changed much since Precise was released?
<micahg> Resistance: use requestbackport :)
<Resistance> micahg:  ugh, why the heck do i keep forgetting requestbackport
<Resistance> oh right, because it segv's on this system
 * Resistance has a slighitly-busted system
 * Resistance goes off to reinstall Precise
<Resistance> actually...
 * Resistance just reinstalls the program that was causing problems
<Resistance> anyways, micahg, i guess that if i'm waiting for a build to finish on a PPA (so I can test the backport), then the request will just sit there until i confirm it works?
<micahg> Resistance: yes, just note in the description what you're planning
<Resistance> the heck...?
<Resistance> micahg:  requestbackport doesnt run as a user that isnt the user running it, right?
<micahg> AFAIK, runs as the current user in the shell
<Resistance> hmmmmm
<Resistance> that's interesting
<Resistance> because...
<Resistance> the system isnt unlocking my keyring (even though i've already unlocked it today)
<Resistance> and this system isnt auto-login
<Resistance> :/
<Resistance> its as if its running as some other user
<Resistance> (passcode isnt working)
<Resistance> oh, and apport is complaining because i cancelled
<Resistance> how wonderful
<tumbleweed> it's a terminal in X? No ssh or screen or anything like that?
<Resistance> tumbleweed:  gnome-terminal
<Resistance> within Ubuntu 12.04
 * Resistance is confused
<Resistance> okay, lemme log out and log back in
<tumbleweed> sounds sensible
<tumbleweed> FWIW python-keyring (or something below it) does seem to be a bit buggy
<Resistance> that might be where the error is occuring
<Resistance> perhaps this needs a bug filed against python-keyring?
<tumbleweed> we know about the issue, just don't know what causes it
<tumbleweed> something throws IOErrors when accessing the keyring every know and then
<Resistance> well then this sucks, because the error i'm having is authing LP API access from my system
<tumbleweed> you still having trouble?
<Resistance> i cleared all the old auths, trying one last time before i shoot the auth system
<Resistance> yep, still having trouble
<Resistance> want the scrollbacks?
<Resistance> s/scrollbacks./
<Resistance> bleh
<Resistance> i meant the trace
<tumbleweed> yes please
<Resistance> i could generate an apport if necessary, do yo uneed that, or no?
<tumbleweed> let's see the traceback first
<Resistance> wait...
<Resistance> what the...?
<Resistance> oh
<Resistance> right
 * Resistance ignores that error, and removes the package  being the problem
<Resistance> anyways, that trace
<Resistance> tumbleweed:  https://pastebin.com/Y1Sh0LEE
<Resistance> bleh
<Resistance> without the https://, but with http://
<Resistance> tumbleweed:  the "error" is a GUI one: it pops up a box asking for me to put the passcode in for the keyring, but...
<tumbleweed> Resistance: right, that traceback doesn't help much, but your description does shed some light
<tumbleweed> is the keyring working for other things?
<tumbleweed> such as network-manager
<Resistance> its error says the passcode for the keyring unlock is invalid, and needs to be reentered
<Resistance> and that point it does not worik
<Resistance> and yes, it works with network-manager, and packaging signing (GPG)
<Resistance> s/GPG/PGP/
<Resistance> (since my PGP key is in my keyring)
<tumbleweed> package signing doesn't use the gnome-keyring
<Resistance> *shrugs*
<Resistance> network-manager's working
<Resistance> and its unlocked and works at-login
<tumbleweed> can you browse the keys in seahorse (parsswords tab)
<Resistance> what keys?
<Resistance> :/
<Resistance> oh wait a minute
<Resistance> *that* isnt unlocking...
<Resistance> what the hell?
<Resistance> bleh
<Resistance> how do i fix that then
<tumbleweed> delete the keyring?
<tumbleweed> it's in ~/.gnome2/keyrings/
<tumbleweed> (back it up first, of course)
<Resistance> back it up, even though its empty?
<Resistance> this is a new installation of precise
<Resistance> :/
<tumbleweed> then just delete it
<tumbleweed> when you create a new one, use your login password and it should unlock automatically
<Resistance> ah that worked
<Resistance> yeah, the passcode for the network i'm on right now in network-manager is available system-wide, so its pulling from the shared keyrings, not my local one
<Resistance> s/local/personal/.
<Resistance> tumbleweed:  are you a backporter, or should I stab micahg?
 * micahg puts on a suit of armor
 * tumbleweed is not a backporter. I just hang out with them :)
<Resistance> :P
<Resistance> okay then
<Resistance> micahg:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/precise-backports/+bug/1000492  i can't test certain packages
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1000492 in Precise Backports "Please backport boinc 7.0.27+dfsg-3 (universe) from quantal" [Undecided,New]
<Resistance> as the dependency for certain packages there is to have certain card architectures i dont have
<tumbleweed> Resistance: looks like you still have lots of testing to do
<Resistance> namely the nvidia-cuda one
<Resistance> tumbleweed:  read the description / testing area
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-17
<Resistance> its pending builds in a PPA (I confirmed a build in pbuilder)
<Resistance> before I can test
 * Resistance grumbles something about nobody caring to read things in depth
<micahg> Resistance: bug fixes really should be cherry picked (yes we can backport the new feature release, but then not everyone benefits)
<Resistance> micahg:  this was cherry-picked initially, geser discussed this one with me, and the bug fix was fixed in Quantal, but an SRU wasnt likely to be supported (according to cjwatson) and geser stated he'd support a backport from Quantal if the fix is in Quantal
<Resistance> if it were up to him
<Resistance> so the problem is whether or not this is going to be fixed
<micahg> Resistance: is there an actual patch?
<Resistance> negative, the fix was only able to be applied in an upstream version
 * micahg sees discussions of new versions, but no evidence of a patch
<Resistance> hence why cjwatson stated an SRU wasn't viable
<Resistance> micahg:  read changelogs on the source package
<Resistance> and the sync request
<Resistance> (which i filed)
<Resistance> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boinc/+bug/998195
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 998195 in boinc (Ubuntu) "Sync boinc 7.0.27+dfsg-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released]
<Resistance> that was fixed within Quantal, but i also don't have the patch (since it seems that this was fixed upstream, with a new version, with no real patch)
<Resistance> i could emial the debian maintainer, but cjwatson looked at the bug at my request and said it'd unlikely be SRU'd (because of version change)
<Resistance> like the znc package, they dont release patches to fix things
<Resistance> (one of the reasons i hate that package, really)
<micahg> Resistance: hmm, if I throw up a build disabling a patch in the precise version, can you try it?
<Resistance> micahg:  if i can finish beating this system out of segving, sure
<Resistance> (its segving in Perl, and i cant figure out whether its the program/script or perl itself)
<Resistance> meh,s crew it
<Resistance> micahg:  which repository would it end up in
<Resistance> main / universe, or proposed?
<micahg> Resistance: -updates after SRU verification
 * micahg is uploading to a PPA ATM though
<Resistance> actually...
<Resistance> it seems something went screwy...
 * Resistance cant access his Seti@Home account to test
<micahg> meh, how did this build in the first place
<Resistance> micahg:  they did change it so it builds with gcc 4.7 (a different debian bug, that was also fixed)
<Resistance> and tbh, idk
<micahg> no, I mean the patches don't apply
<Resistance> wait, really?
<Resistance> they applied on my end here :/
<Resistance> last i checked anyways
<Resistance> hmm
<Resistance> you know what, i hate PPAs
<Resistance> there's a 5 hour wait on my ppa builds
<Resistance> :/
<micahg> Resistance: you get what you pay for :P
<Resistance> micahg:  i may as well just set up a debian repository locally :/
<micahg> Resistance: apt-cacher-ng + sbuild FTW
<micahg> ah, the patch is stacked, let me refresh it
 * Resistance yawns
<Resistance> well, i guess its time for another coffee run
<Resistance> oh, micahg, i've got to poke you about bugsquad bug policies on Importance, a potential definition for "core" vs. "non-core" seems to have surfaced (but only two or three people have weighed in)
<micahg> yeah, I"ll respond at some point as well
<Resistance> well including my weighing in, the potential option we have on the table is define "core" as part of one of the default flavor packages, i.e. ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop, etc.
<Resistance> but that's only one potential definition
<micahg> backportpackage is being funny: 7.0.24+dfsg-1ubuntu0.1~ubuntu12.04.1~ppa1
<Resistance> lool...
<Resistance> lol*
<micahg> Resistance: should hopefully build in ppa:micahg/sru-test at some point
<Resistance> that is funny xD
<Resistance> what did you set the urgency to, "low"?
<Resistance> if so, my PPA's'll build long before yours
 * micahg doesn't bother setting the urgency, let the queue do its thing
<Resistance> yeah, mine'll build first then, unless somehow you got higher priority
<bregma> do package updates in Debian get automatically synced to Ubuntu (assuming no changes) or is a sync request required?
<LordOfTime> bregma:  syncs happen periodically on the dev release, but sometimes a sync request is needed.
<micahg> bregma: with no Ubuntu changes, a sync request isn't needed until after Debian Import Freeze unless there's a reason
<LordOfTime> ah, right
<LordOfTime> :P
 * LordOfTime forgot about freezes
<LordOfTime> micahg:  check -bugs, please
<bkerensa> micahg: do we/can we update packages that we sync from debian?
<bkerensa> instead of waiting for debian to update the package?
<micahg> bkerensa: yes, but if possible, better to work with the Debian maintainer to accomplish that goal if you care about it saying up to date
<micahg> s/saying/staying/
<bkerensa> kk
<geser> has someone an idea what went wrong here? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/105319564/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.sift_4.0.3b-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> argh, found the issue: the package compiles binaries, but replaced them later with pre-compiled once :(
<jtaylor> lol
<Laney> wtf
<geser> and of course those binaries were x86-64 and me building on amd64 so I didn't catch this (the DD uploaded an amd64 deb too)
<LordOfTime> hey micahg, that sru-test you asked me to do, apt-get is 404ing, did you build it for Precise? (for boinc)
<LordOfTime> (in your PPA)
<micahg> LordOfTime: yep
<LordOfTime> that's odd
<LordOfTime> because apt is 404ing on it then
<LordOfTime> lemme remove it from my sources, and re-add
<LordOfTime> this isnt the first time add-apt-repository's gone wonky for me
<LordOfTime> ... woah......
<LordOfTime> micahg:  i'm going to retract the backport / sru request, given that it wants to install a crapload of i386 stuff
<micahg> huh?
<LordOfTime> micahg:  it wants to install...
<LordOfTime> 246 32bit packages
<LordOfTime> just to install boinc
 * LordOfTime thinks that that's somewhat overkill
<LordOfTime> most of these are packages that already exist for the GNOME runtime
<micahg> something seems not right
<LordOfTime> indeed
<LordOfTime> micahg:  https://pastebin.com/0A3ZyHf8
<LordOfTime> EVIL HTTPS
<LordOfTime> use it without https
<LordOfTime> take a look at all it wants installede
<micahg> LordOfTime: oh, right, we were discussing this yesterday in -devel :), boinc-client recommends ia32-libs
<LordOfTime> *recommends*
<LordOfTime> then why is this listing as dependencies
<micahg> it's not
<micahg> we install recommends by default
<LordOfTime> ...
<LordOfTime> bleh
<LordOfTime> no offense, but IMO that's a bit rubbish... recommended packages arent necessarily dependencies, so what if someone didnt want the recommended packages
<LordOfTime> (just to put that out there)
<micahg> --no-install-recommends :)
<micahg> The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations.
<Laney> or uninstall them, or apt-get install mycoolpackage myuncoolrecommendedpacakge-
<LordOfTime> micahg:  the program installs and runs, but i'm running into more internet problems today, so i'm not going to be able to fully test this to see if that bug is gone
<micahg> LordOfTime: ok, let me know when you can and I'll upload the SRU
<LordOfTime> something's... not right... its not letting me set up my boinc user to here ...
<LordOfTime> huh, you know what
<LordOfTime> that explains it
<LordOfTime> it segv'd in memory :/
<LordOfTime> micahg:  i'm going to poke one of the people who had volunteered to test the backport, perhaps they can test the SRU, and they/I will get back to you
<LordOfTime> because boinc refuses to work on my system (SIGSEGV in memory)
<micahg> thanks
<geser> Laney: should we update the section about handling of sync request in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue (page linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess)
 * Laney sees something for the first time
<LordOfTime> o.O
<Laney> geser: looks like it could be updated and simplified indeed
<Laney> and it probably doesn't want to be MOTU specific
<highvoltage> broder: familiar with gimp at all? I have people at work and google+ who wants 2.8 on precise. I'm not sure how big it is or if it's to brave to take it on for a backport
<highvoltage> (I guess I'll try it in a ppa and if it doesn't seem that complicated I'll try getting it in backports)
<micahg> highvoltage: has quite a few rdeps
<micahg> highvoltage: it should be in quantal by early next week
<highvoltage> micahg: ok
<broder> highvoltage: no familiarity. recruit the people who want it to do the rdep testing :-P
<broder> oh my, that's quite a lot of rdeps
<micahg> highvoltage: having said that, if we can get people to test the rdeps we can approve a backport (but the thing is, we'd want someone willing to smoke test the rdeps when we have security updates)
<broder> eh, i still disagree with that
<broder> (a) does gimp even have that many security updates?
<broder> (b) i still think for security updates that we should only smoke the package itself, not the rdeops
<micahg> 3 in the last year
<broder> ugh
<micahg> err 13 months
<highvoltage> oh well, perhaps a ppa would suffice then
<broder> in any case, i argue that the likelihood that a minimal security patch breaks an rdep is infinitesimal compared to the likelihood that a backport of a major release will
<micahg> I'd be ok for partial rdep testing on the security backports (without major version changes)
<broder> i've been talking about this for a while and not actually doing anything, so i guess i will send mail to the list and try to get it officialized'
<micahg> we'll also need to backport from the next LTS when the time comes to get security updates for the life of precise
<broder> no, we don't. security support for backports is best effort
<micahg> I think that's for stuff we don't know more than stuff we do know
<micahg> it is best effort, but to backport a package that's known to be CVE prone seems wrong (without some type of ongoing commitment from people)
<highvoltage> gimp 2.8 also depends on a bunch of newer build dependences (libatk, libcairo2, libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev, libwebkitgtk, python-dev...), I guess it was a bit optimistic to think that it would be easy :)
<micahg> highvoltage: newer than precise?
 * micahg is just aware of gegl being an issue
<highvoltage> micahg: yep, the source package I have is from debian experimental
<bobweaver> Hello there is there going to be a fix-it-Friday tomorrow ? IF so where is it located and what time. Thanks a ton !
<geser> bobweaver: here and the whole friday and you don't need to wait on a fix-it-friday to fix bugs on a friday (or any other day of the week)
<bobweaver> thanks a ton geser
<pfifo> Hi, not sure whats up with the gnomebaker package for i386 precise... "This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source" I hope its not being obsoleted, I need that package!
<LordOfTime> micahg:  still around?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-18
<micahg> LordOfTime: now I am again
<LordOfTime> micahg:  i emailed one of the people who was testing on the package 'boinc' with the SRU and stuff, got a response I'd like to share with you
<LordOfTime> want me to forward the email, or just pastebin it
<micahg> fwd is fine micahg at ubuntu
<LordOfTime> ugh, system blew up
<LordOfTime> micahg:  forwarded to ya
<micahg> LordOfTime: hrm...ok, if it's really broken, we can SRU .27 I think
<LordOfTime> that's not the  Debian dev, i should point out, that guy won't respond via email :/
<LordOfTime> but this one is one of the guys who's been working on the bug before I even got to it
<LordOfTime> but yeah, thougth  you should see that response there
<LordOfTime> .24, afaict in Debian, was replaced with .25 almost a day after .25 was released upstream
<LordOfTime> and that seems to have fixed most of the crap that was exploding :/
 * micahg wishes someone would've escorted that into precise
<LordOfTime> but yeah, i'll leave this to your judgement
<LordOfTime> heh
<LordOfTime> i think .25 came out after the last freeze...
<LordOfTime> or something
<LordOfTime> *shrugs*
<micahg> wow, boinc isn't even in testing ATM :-/
<micahg> RAOF: so, we have reports that the version of boinc in precise  is totally broken, it's been suggested to SRU .27 as supposedly the version we have was never released to the public
<LordOfTime> okay, system implosion, restart time
 * LordOfTime initiates emergency powerdown
<RAOF> micahg: SRU requirements for packages that don't work at all are pretty low ;)
<micahg> RAOF: right, the thing is I don't use the package, so I'm not sure it's true or not :)
<RAOF> Ah, fun.
<micahg> when LordOfTime comes back, we can ask for some verification of the claims
<LordOfTime> hm?
<LordOfTime> sorry, system explosivity
 * LordOfTime hates Windows, but needed it to fix something in a dev environment
<micahg> LordOfTime: is boinc on precise actually broke as claimed?
<LordOfTime> micahg:  i'd have to double check, i know that it was exploding earlier, but i havent downloaded the repos version (been busy recovering my packaging stuff first).  i'm not at my precise environment right now, i'm on a god-awful Windows system, so i'll have to get back to you on that
<LordOfTime> (feel free to email me a reminder, i'd appreciate that)
<LordOfTime> i won't be at my Ubuntu box until tomorrow
<LordOfTime> (about 12 hours from now)
<micahg> LordOfTime: sure, no rush, thanks
<LordOfTime> mhm
<LordOfTime> UGH, windows server systems are awful
<jtaylor> how does one quickly figure out why a package is in main?
<Laney> check its rdepends in main, or check the seeds
<Laney> reverse-depends or seeded-in-ubuntu
 * Laney high fives tumbleweed 
<jtaylor> 118 rdepends which one is the main one ._.
<Laney> -c main
<jtaylor> oh nice
<jtaylor> thx
<LordOfTime> micahg:  the person who i've emailed (the response of which i forwarded to you) was able to say that the repos version and the version in your PPA do not work according to that person.  I am unfortunately stuck in a strange situation where the package won't even install on my end, claiming dependencies are broken even when they are available for installation
<LordOfTime> (the boinc sru thing)
<LordOfTime> (from repos)
<micahg> hrm
<LordOfTime> but granted, my system's still a work-in-progress, and I can't even access my BOINC projects :/
<LordOfTime> so...
<LordOfTime> *shrugs*
 * LordOfTime blames Verizon internet being stupid
<LordOfTime> hey micahg, random question, but how can I subscribe to all bugs for [given package]
<LordOfTime>  in Ubuntu on LP?
<jtaylor> LordOfTime: on the main package page, "subscribe to bug mail" on the upper right
<LordOfTime> oh, speak of the devil...
 * LordOfTime didnt redalize for the 'nginx' package in ubuntu, the 'nginx' team is notified on new bugs
<LordOfTime> that saves me some subscribing :P
<eagles0513875> micahg: I'm swearing at 12.04 right now me is one very disgruntled bird at the moment
<eagles0513875> lots of issues with 12.04 installation
<micahg> eagles0513875: sorry to hear that, please make sure they're filed and hopefully 12.04.1 will be better
<eagles0513875> micahg: my issue is mainly related to graphics
 * micahg knows very little about the installer (there's #ubuntu-installer)
<eagles0513875> i need nomodeset on grub but if i can't even get to grub to temporarily add that to boot and change it in the grub configuration on the system the system is useless, and the other very annoying issue is when using the live cd it installs grub on the MBR of the usb device instead of the MBR on the hard disk
<eagles0513875> oddly though if i use net install this doesn't occur
<eagles0513875>  /me joins ubuntu-installer and calls it a night
<linx2342> Hey guys, I'm having some strange key errors when trying to backport a package.
<linx2342> dput gives me this error: http://paste.welcloud.de/show/NMHlSxhLQ8qsyOgyuf9U/
<jtaylor> you must first sign the changes file
<linx2342> And somewhere in the log of pbuilder I've found this: http://paste.welcloud.de/show/Y3Jw4NhEr4Tk9d4nKCNt/
<jtaylor> with debsign
<Laney> and you need to upload the _source.changes, not _amd64
<linx2342> But I thought debuild -S -sd did that.
<Laney> oh, local
<Laney> nm
<jtaylor> it should
<jtaylor> maybe it didn't find your key
<jtaylor> do you have one?
<linx2342> http://paste.welcloud.de/show/c0GnJ4nOHKTJE4mZjQKj/
<linx2342> Yes
<jtaylor> that log signed the source changes
<jtaylor> not the amd64 changs
<jtaylor> which you tried to dput
<linx2342> So after bpuilder I need to sign the packages?
<linx2342> yay!
<linx2342> debsign did the trick. :)
<linx2342> Okay, one other thing: I want to use this package for building another one.
<linx2342> pbuilder says that it has mounted my local archive, but it doesn't seem to use the package.
<linx2342> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: autotools-dev (>= 20100122.1) but 20090611.1 is to be installed.
<linx2342> But the archive it mounted: I: Mounting /home/daniel/.building/cache/archive
<bregma> did you run apt-get update in a D* script?
<linx2342> D*?
<bregma> a pbuilder hook script run before the package build
<linx2342> I don't think so.
<linx2342> I followed this steps: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Building_With_Local_Packages
<bregma> http://wiki.debian.org/PbuilderTricks#How_to_include_local_packages_in_the_build
<linx2342> I did this: pbuilder update --override-config --configfile ~/.pbuilderrc
<linx2342> But now my packages is unstrusted
<bregma> mm, I sign my archive and import my key in my D hook script
<jtaylor> you can tell pbuilder to allow untrusted packages
<jtaylor> though it might not be a good idea
<linx2342> So I better add a hook for importing my key?
<Laney> does it override the apt trusted keys?
<Laney> you could login to the pbuilder and apt-key add if not
<linx2342> Shouldn't be a script doing 'sudo apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys ....' be enough?
<bregma> wouldn't importing the entire keyring take a while?
<bobweaver> Hello there I have a question about uploading fixes to branches. (bzr branch lp:~foo)so I checkout branch then make fix(spelling) to branch then push  (bzr push lp:~bobweaver/foo/spellingcheck)    Now if I would like to make a new change to foo say a picture do I have to go get the source all over again and start from scratch ?
<bobweaver> like bzr branch lp:~foo    (make changes ) bzr commit -m     then bzr push lp:~bobweaver/foo/added-pictures
<bobweaver> si the question ius do I have to get new branch every time I want to make change to branch ?
<bobweaver> s|si |so
<bregma> it's often easier that way
<bregma> or, you can specify a previous merge must go first when proposing your merge
<micahg> well, doing 2 merge proposals off the base at once if they touch the same files, just makes more work for the merger
<bobweaver> because they have to go though and look at each thing in the change log ?
<bobweaver> I should be touching changelog everything I touch a branch correct ?
<bregma> do you have a bug for each change?
<bobweaver> yup
<bobweaver> but sometimes there is a alot bugs wraped into one
<bobweaver> like spelling
<bobweaver> I guess that I will be more to the point I did something wrong and am trying to fix :)  I tried to do it all at once http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/ubuntu-packaging-guide/ubuntu-packaging-guide/view/head:/debian/changelog      not a good idea
<linx2342> Why is my package still untrusted, even if I add my keyring using APTKEYRINGS?
<bobweaver> or do you think that that is better off with diff patches if there is no bug. Or should I file bug and wait for it to get approved then fix and then merge branch's ? thanks again for your time
<achiang>  what's the way to propose an MP for upstream casper? in the past, what i've done is create an actual debdiff and subscribed ubuntu-sponsors to a bug, but in this case, i have a bzr branch and MP i'd like to submit instead of a debdiff
<stgraber> achiang: have it based on ubuntu:casper, then "bzr lp-propose-merge", it'll automatically end up on the sponsoring queue
<achiang> stgraber: neato. thanks.
<achiang> stgraber: i have a partial fix for LP: #855556
<achiang> stgraber: hm. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/995025/
<stgraber> achiang: ah right, you'll also need to push you branch to lp first: bzr push lp:~achiang/ubuntu/quantal/casper/bug-855556 for example
<achiang> stgraber: d'oh. :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-19
<vibhav> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grace/+bug/705202 is fixed in Debian, should I prepare a merge or just wait for it to get synced?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 705202 in grace (Ubuntu) "xmgrace window font is not loaded correctly" [Low,Triaged]
<vibhav> Also, can https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-evdev/+bug/932439 be nominated for oneiric?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932439 in xserver-xorg-input-evdev "Horizontal scrolling reversed recently" [Medium,In progress]
<jtaylor> how does a fakesync work? it only changes the debian revision, how can it change the orig.tar?
<Laney> you rebuild the source package with a different orig to the one debian has
<Laney> so the checksums are different
<jtaylor> so it keeps the ubuntu orig?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> i think syncpackage can detect this situation
<jtaylor> it does
<eagles0513875> micahg: nobody is installer that channel is dead :( dunno who i can turn to for some really show stopper bugs :(
<Laney> eagles0513875: A lot of folk aren't around on the weekend.
<eagles0513875> Laney: i know but nobody was in ubuntu-installer yesterday and it was friday
<Laney> If it was the evening UK time then you might have been too late.
<eagles0513875> ya I'm only uk +1 where i am
<eagles0513875> Laney: do you think you could help me with an installer issue?
<Laney> no I don't, sorry :(
<Laney> This is one area that I have very little knowledge of
<eagles0513875> its ok
<eagles0513875> basically the way things are right now kubuntu is useless as a desktop for me
<eagles0513875> be it live cd or otherwise
<geser> is the kubuntu desktop installer that much different from the gnome desktop installer?
<geser> I see now and then installer questions in #ubuntu-devel, perhaps you might have there any success
<Laney> I would suggest that you just ask your question in #-installer and wait for a response.
<Laney> Or post it to the installer mailing list.
<Laney> Or, if it is a bug, file it on Launchpad.
<eagles0513875> geser: no
<eagles0513875> only thing that is different is the desktop that is installed
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<eagles0513875> Laney: question
<eagles0513875> my issue though is more related to grub
<eagles0513875> cuz i have a fairly recent gnu and with noveau it needs nomodeset for grub to be able to boot cuz with out it i get a black screen so would that be something to discuss with the installer people?
<PaoloRotolo> Hi, can You please sponsor my patch for this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenlive/+bug/1001646
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001646 in kdenlive (Ubuntu) "kdenlive0.9-1 is missing xine for DVD preview" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<AmberJ_> Hello
<AmberJ_> Is there any reason why anyone should prefer Ubuntu "Packaging" over "CPack"?
<AmberJ_> By Ubuntu "Packaging", I mean the Packaging guide on Ubuntu wiki...
<geser> what is "CPack"?
<PaoloRotolo> up :)
<AmberJ_> geser, CPack is a packaging system for software distributions which is tightly integrated with CMake, but can function without it.
<jtaylor> how does it handle dependencies?
<AmberJ_> geser, It allows you to generate: Linux RPM, deb and gzip distributions of both binaries and source code; NSIS files (for Microsoft Windows); Mac OS X packages
<jtaylor> a such a thing, you can often use that as a starting point, but to integrate it properly into the debian/ubuntu ecosystem extra work is required
<AmberJ_> jtaylor, 'make'/'cmake' does the dependency handling for it.
<PaoloRotolo> Hi, can you please sponsor my patch for this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenlive/+bug/1001646  :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001646 in kdenlive (Ubuntu) "kdenlive0.9-1 is missing xine for DVD preview" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<geser> AmberJ_: does it support the same "interface" to allow a buildd build the binary packages from a source package?
<Laney> PaoloRotolo: Someone will get to it through the sponsors queue :-)
<Laney> It's probably a good idea to send it upstream (to Debian) though, since we get this package unmodified from them.
<jtaylor> AmberJ_: these tools are useful for upstreams to distribute to many plattforms, but if you want a package in the archive, follow the ubuntu/debian packaging guides
<AmberJ_> geser, I don't know. I came here looking for help/info about pros and cons of cmake. I'm planning to package something and cmake seems to do it quickly but I was more interested to see if it follows same interface/standards.
<AmberJ_> jtaylor, Do you mean that if I expect my package to be in ubuntu/debian repos, I need to follow ubuntu/debian packaging guides?
<geser> AmberJ_: the Ubuntu (and Debian) build daemons only support Debian source packages, so if you intend to get a package into the Ubuntu and/or Debian archive, they must have that format
<AmberJ_> ok I get it :) Thanks a lot!
<AmberJ_> I'll go and start reading packaging guide then...
<geser> but for your own homepage (or project page) you can also build them with CPack (assuming it generates good packages) (but of course proper Debian packaging would be preferred)
<jtaylor> when is mergomatic going to be fixed?
<geser> when IS handles that MoM ticket and looks into it
<AmberJ_> Well, I might end up using CPack for osx/cygwin, but I'll use packaging guide for Ubuntu/Debian.
<Laney> someone could run another instance
<Laney> I tried but update-sources.py killed the m1.large I used :O
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-20
<micahg> eagles0513875: I'd suggest trying on Monday :)
<eagles0513875> micahg: ok :( won't have much time sadly :( due to an exam
<micahg> eagles0513875: weekday I mean vs weekend
<eagles0513875> i tried friday evening central European time
<jtaylor> micahg: is bug 655192 really sru worthy?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 655192 in python-scipy (Ubuntu Oneiric) "scipy.weave.inline requires python-dev to be installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655192
<micahg> jtaylor: it's a simple enough fix, I figured why not
<jtaylor> hm it is a good learning bug
<geser> anyone familiar with current python packaging can take a look at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/104394860/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.python-traits_4.1.0-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz and tell if the package is doing something now obsolete?
<geser> I'm also about the warning "W: dh_python2:90: Python 2.7 should install files in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/. Did you forget "--install-layout=deb"?"
<geser> is --install-layout=deb not needed anymore?
<jtaylor> weird dh_python2 does not appear to work
<geser> is it perhaps due to install in site-packages instead of dist-packages?
<jtaylor> they are in dist-packages in the end
<jtaylor> but maybe thats dh_python2's doing
<geser> ah, right
<jtaylor> indeed it is
<geser> those "find" calls which produce that error come from a -predeb target in debian/rules
<jtaylor> why does cdbs not set --install-layout
<geser> good questions, it looks like got dropped
<jtaylor> that would be very weird
<geser> also in Debian too
<geser> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/debian/sid/cdbs/sid/view/head:/1/class/python-distutils.mk.in
<jtaylor> ah its an ubuntu only change to dh_python2
<jtaylor> an illadvised one ...
<jtaylor> ubuntus dh_python2 does not do the psshared move as we only have one supported version
<jtaylor> but many packages use the pyshared folders
<jtaylor> this is wrong, but so convinient even I did it in the past ;)
<geser> so we need to modify packages like python-traits to work on the non-pyshared directory?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> and file a bug in debian
<jtaylor> or revert the change in ubuntu
<geser> I doubt filing those bugs in Debian would be welcomed as they don't apply do Debian
<jtaylor> let me check my pymodules checkout for how many are affected
<jtaylor> :/ I deleted it
<jtaylor> I'll file a bug to revert this
<jtaylor> to many packages are affected by that to just go and fix it shortly before wheezy freeze
<geser> Debian still ships a pyshared directory, right?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> they still have two python directories
<jtaylor> bug 1001912
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001912 in python-defaults (Ubuntu) "dh_python2: revert pyshared removal in 2.7.3-0ubuntu3" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001912
<geser> I guess it's the usual expected fallout in universe which the MOTUs should fix (similar to other toolchain changes)
<geser> btw: I've fixed python-pyface, python-traits and python-traitsui (3 FTBFS less :) )
<jtaylor> yey more diff from debian ...
<jtaylor> for no real gain
<jtaylor> I filed a bug against traits, lets see if that causes some reaction
<geser> ScottK: Hi, as you are sort of familiar with the boost situation: do you if libbboost-all-dev will get installable again? or should packages which need boost mpi switch to build with boost1.48?
<ScottK> geser: It will.  I need to work on that.
<vibhav> chu: Because you /window 13
<vibhav> oops :(
<jtaylor> geser: did you file bugs fir pyface and traitsui?
<geser> jtaylor: not yet, will wait on the reaction on your bug first. I'm in no mood to forward bugs for issues which are "Ubuntu-only" in the eyes of the DDs (especially Python ones)
<jtaylor> geser: they have the same maintainer so one bug is probably enough
<jtaylor> I'm just looking at the eggdrop sru, precise has a format-security patch oneiric doesn't
<jtaylor> one of the issues looks scetchy but I can'T really judge if its a real issue
<jtaylor> can I add the patch to oneiric in the sru?
<jtaylor> bug 885329
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 885329 in eggdrop (Ubuntu Oneiric) "eggdrop crash on i386" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885329
<jtaylor> just to be sure
<jtaylor> nevermind the patch is buggy
<dupondje> eggdrop is bit buggy :(
<jtaylor> yes it looks quite awful
<jtaylor> we alsoc an't merge with debian as the ssl patch does not exist for .20
<jtaylor> and ubuntu has a license violation of linking ssl against gpl code ...
<dupondje> jtaylor: http://www.egghelp.org/files/patches/eggdrop-1.6.20-ssl.zip
<jtaylor> dupondje: that one does not work on 64 bit
<dupondje> what patch is used now ?
<dupondje> as bas
<dupondje> e*
<jtaylor> .19
<dupondje> yea but there are multiple :)
<jtaylor> no idea
<dupondje> jtaylor: SSL is only diff in debian & ubuntu ?
<jtaylor> yes
<dupondje> shouldn't be to hard :)
<jtaylor> if you have a good patch
 * Laney spots dupondje volunteering to take it on
<jtaylor> which we don't
<Laney> also to port it to gnutls eh
<jtaylor> I'd suggest waiting for 1.8 which has native ssl
<jtaylor> and hopefully a ssl license exception
<dupondje> why it needs to be moved to gnutls ? :)
<jtaylor> does dcut work in ubuntu?
<Laney> no
<dupondje> I don't know if somebody here can review https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/remmina/+bug/937522
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 937522 in remmina (Ubuntu) "rdp clipboard sync doesn't work anymore." [Undecided,Confirmed]
 * dupondje thinks it shouldn't be TO hard to port eggdrop ssl patch to gnutls :)
<dupondje> jtaylor: ?
<dupondje> you think its usefull to work on porting ssl patch to GnuTLS ?
<jtaylor> I don't know
<jtaylor> first you should check how upstream solved the openssl license issue
<jtaylor> (probably by ignoring it)
<dupondje> upstream ?
<jtaylor> the eggdrop developers
<dupondje> eggdrop dev does not include SSL in 1.6.x
<dupondje> so :)
<jtaylor> but in 1.8
<jtaylor> brb
<dupondje> jtaylor: nothing in it about openssl it seems
<dupondje> so indeed :) ignoring it :P
<jtaylor> ok another problem with eggdrop
<jtaylor> a no my mistake
<dupondje> jtaylor: so what you think, try to make a GnuTLS patch ?
<jtaylor> dupondje: contact upstream about that
<dupondje> upstream is quite dead
<dupondje> last commit is months ago in the 1.8 branch :s
<jtaylor> then there is probably not much point in a port
<Laney> man, I remember running an eggdrop bot back in the day
<Laney> must be 10 years ago now
<Laney> sad if it really is dead :(
<jtaylor> how is ubuntu's stand on the openssl issue actually?
<jtaylor> is it considered a system library?
<Laney> what's a system library?
<Laney> both it and gnutls26 are in main
<jtaylor> you can consider openssl a system library which avoids the license issue
<jtaylor> gpl has some exception for those
<jtaylor> debian does not consider openssl a system library so you need an explicit exception
<jtaylor> http://lintian.debian.org/tags/possible-gpl-code-linked-with-openssl.html
<jtaylor> http://people.gnome.org/~markmc/openssl-and-the-gpl
<dupondje> port the ssl patch to GnuTLS then :)
<dupondje> its not so hard
<jtaylor> if you can update the patch to tls and .21 that would be great
<jtaylor> it should then also be published on the eggdrop site
<jtaylor> and brought to debian
<dupondje> the patch is around ~20 lines of real code
<dupondje> not much :)
 * tumbleweed wonders if weechat really needs 5 daily build PPAs https://code.launchpad.net/~weechat-devs/weechat/trunk/+recipes
<jtaylor> lol
<tumbleweed> they appear to all be using different versioning schemes. across several different upstream versions
<dupondje> Could somebody review https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/remmina/+bug/937522 for me? Its been open some time now :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 937522 in remmina (Ubuntu) "rdp clipboard sync doesn't work anymore." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> dupondje: Surely upstream are the best people to review that
<Laney> also, it is in main.
<dupondje> Its already in upstream :)
<Laney> please indicate that in the patch headers then
<Laney> and send it to the Debian bug / link them to the commit
<Laney> I can't help you any more than that as it is in main, but having the sponsors know it's already upstream should help.
<ajmitch> ah, mondays
<Laney> the best day
<Laney> a whole new week ahead of you
<dupondje> :)
<dupondje> thx
<ajmitch> Laney: when are you applying for core dev anyway?
<Laney> soon
<ajmitch> not soon enough!
<Laney> i started an application ^o)
<ajmitch> \o/
<Laney> also, I just bzr branched ubuntu:libvirt and it was over 600 meg :O
 * ajmitch can't really write an endorsement
<ajmitch> 600MB? how?
<Laney> hax
<micahg> Laney: make something I can sponsor tomorrow :)
<Laney> dunno who to ask for an endorsement; the problem with using the queue really
<ajmitch> about the only thing I've sponsored for Laney would have been mono once :)
 * ajmitch is finally feeling less dead after the ubuflu, time to start on work items this week
<Laney> micahg: maybe a libvirt depending on how that pans out ...
<ajmitch> 600MB of pain there
<Laney> yeah i'll do a debdiff
<Laney> only using bzr to make the merging easier
<ajmitch> need shallow checkout
<Laney> if only we had a mom to look after us
<Laney> 545 conflicts encountered.
<Laney> no thanks
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> trying to merge in a new upstream version for some reason?
<Laney> my end goal is gnome-boxes
<ajmitch> ah right
 * ajmitch was wondering why you'd touch libvirt, usually the server team cares for that
<Laney> perhaps jbicha has looked into this Â¬_Â¬
<dupondje> I would like to do some merges, but since the MoM is down, I lost overview
<ajmitch> dupondje: what are you needing?
<dupondje> MoM overview :)
<ajmitch> we should have the list of packages that need merged, but probably not the last uploader & generated diff
<Laney> I thought http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/~lucas/merges.html was a URL
<dupondje> thats a 404 :)
<ajmitch> Laney: s/qa/people/
<Laney> ah
<ajmitch> so that does have last uploader
<Laney> does, with horizontal scrolling
<ajmitch> get a wider screen? :)
 * Laney tugs at the laptop
<ajmitch> ugh
 * ajmitch is listed as TIL for openclipart
 * ajmitch blames micahg for that one
<ajmitch> I guess I really do need to buy that new hardware so I can build it :)
<Laney> to the cloud!
<ajmitch> Laney: it took several hours with only 4GB of RAM in my laptop
<Laney> High-Memory Quadruple Extra Large Instance
<Laney> 68.4 GB of memory
<dupondje> cool good list, I think i'll enter some sync/merges tomorrow ^^
 * ajmitch will need a mortgage
<Laney> i wonder how much an hour on that is
<ajmitch> more than I want to pay?
<Laney> $1.800 per Hour
<Laney> not so bad!
 * ajmitch will let Laney do all the haskell-* packages
<lifeless> Laney: go for a x8.large; 32 core no VM :)
<micahg> Laney: openclipart took 9 hours for me to build with 8 cores
<ajmitch> micahg: so.. technically you TIL, right? :)
<micahg> ajmitch: can't we just sync it?
<Laney> lifeless: so hardcore I can't even find any information about it :P
<ajmitch> micahg: it should be syncable, yes
<Laney> syncs don't need test-building, right? ^_^
<jbicha> the libvirt packaging seemed a bit complex to merge, ie I couldn't tell how much of the diff was important
<micahg> ajmitch: I'll try to do the test build when I go to sleep
<ajmitch> micahg: thanks :)
<ajmitch> Laney: micahg will jump out & kill me if I don't test-build
<micahg> Laney: jbicha: please talk to hallyn before merging libvirt (to see if there's any reason not to, caveats to watch for, or if he's already working on it)
<Laney> of course
<jbicha> I'm not touching libvirt :)
<Laney> it is a pretty fearsome diff
<lifeless> Laney: http://docs.amazonwebservices.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/using_cluster_computing.html#concepts_cluster_compute_hvmAMI
<lifeless> Laney: there are Ubuntu AMIs
<Laney> I think I might leave this merge :P
<micahg> Laney: you can do gimp for me if you're looking for something to do :)
<Laney> oh look, time to go to bed!
<Laney> nn
<micahg> heh
<bobweaver> micahg,  what do you need done in gimp ?
<micahg> bobweaver: oh, it's just on my list to merge tonight :)
<bobweaver> micahg,  I am always willing to help / do grunt work :)
<bobweaver> here is some of my gimp work
<bobweaver> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/ubuntu-packaging-guide/fixed-bug767276/files/head:/images/
 * bobweaver is trying to get iso image together tonight of ubuntutv .  back to vala
<micahg> bobweaver: well, I'm expecting stuff to break in the merge
<bobweaver> Oo
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-13
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<iulian> Morning.
<TheLordOfTime> any idea how to fix E: nginx changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file saucy in debuild -S
<TheLordOfTime> i don't get that for quantal just raring and later on my precise machine
<tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: you need a new lintian
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed:  so short of me stealing quantal or raring's lintian, any workaround?
<TheLordOfTime> (or can I just ignore it)
<tumbleweed> yeah, ignore it
<TheLordOfTime> it's just complaining because slightly-old right?
<TheLordOfTime> (it still builds the source package, which is why I asked)
<tumbleweed> it's complaining because it hasn't heard of saucy
<TheLordOfTime> it does that for raring too
<tumbleweed> it hasn't heard of that either
<tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: other workaround: edit /usr/share/lintian/data/changelog-file/ubuntu-dists
<TheLordOfTime> that works, thanks.
 * TheLordOfTime likes workaround :)
<TheLordOfTime> workarounds*
<tumbleweed> generally, it's a good idea to use the latest lintian
<tumbleweed> which is why pbuilder & sbuild run lintian inside the chroot
<TheLordOfTime> i agree
<TheLordOfTime> but this is just debuild -S yelling
<TheLordOfTime> not pbuilder / sbuild
<TheLordOfTime> (because this gets uploaded to a PPA)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-14
<dholbach> good morning
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57:  ping
<mitya57> TheLordOfTime: pong
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57:  any progress on the nginx 1.4.1 merge?
<mitya57> TheLordOfTime: it's in the sponsoring queue since 2013-05-09 :)
<mitya57> if you know someone who'll sponsor that sooner, it will be nice
<TheLordOfTime> and by sponsor i assume you mean someone on the ubuntu sponsors list?
 * TheLordOfTime would like to get this handled before the next server team meeting next tuesday
<mitya57> by sponsor I mean someone who has upload rights :)
<TheLordOfTime> ah
 * mitya57 has his MOTU application prepared, but I won't get the rights until June probably
<Laney> try asking in #ubuntu-server
<TheLordOfTime> Laney:  i probably will, i've got a few people who've sponsored my debdiffs in the past
<TheLordOfTime> but first, breakfast xD
<mitya57> btw 71 items in the queue is too many (dholbach once promised that there will be alerts when it exceeds 50)
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57:  Daviey said they'd look at the merge
<TheLordOfTime> and sponsor it in
<mitya57> thanks!
<Laney> https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=6k1e5rq45m1bdqq0n1ge3oqaok@group.calendar.google.com&gsessionid=OK :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-15
<dholbach> good morning
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57, merge was handled apparently
<mitya57> TheLordOfTime: yeah I saw it
<mitya57> (thanks Daviey!)
<mitya57> asomething: hi, around?
<asomething> mitya57, hi
<mitya57> asomething: great to see you here :)
<mitya57> first, are you still planning to look at my woff-tools package or should I ask someone else?
<asomething> mitya57, eek... I forgot all about that. I should have time today while lurking on UDS sessions. sorry!
<mitya57> asomething: no problem, I just wanted to know if you will or won't
<mitya57> asomething: and my second question: can you please leave a comment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DmitryShachnev/MOTUApplication/ ?
<asomething> mitya57, Absolutely!
<mitya57> asomething: thanks a lot! (I'm also considering to apply for DD this summer)
<asomething> mitya57, great! I'd be happy to advocate you for DD as well. Do you have your key signed by two DDs?
<mitya57> asomething: yes
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57, ping, your comment on bug 1175027
<ubottu> bug 1175027 in nginx (Ubuntu) "crypt_r() failed (2: No such file or directory) when using auth_basic" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175027
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57, wouldn't it help to ask what release they're using?
<TheLordOfTime> they could be using raring, and can't check saucy atm
<mitya57> TheLordOfTime: they can install a deb from Saucy
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57, assuming they know how.
<mitya57> TheLordOfTime: or maybe you'll verify it yourself?
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57, that, and for nginx, you'd need two separate debs, people don't realize that (but we do)
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57, i could...
<TheLordOfTime> ... if I had a working VM
 * TheLordOfTime is on his phone :/
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57, the question is whether or not they're on Saucy or not
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57, we can almost guarantee this works on saucy
<TheLordOfTime> since the bugfix seems to be in the 1.2.x branch
<TheLordOfTime> but if they're on Raring, then I have to go digging in upstream trac for the changes
<mitya57> TheLordOfTime: let's just close it then (and open a raring task)?
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57, i'll have a raring VM later, bit i'm not near my computer right now is all
<mitya57> TheLordOfTime: ok
<mitya57> asomething: thanks for commenting!
<asomething> mitya57, no problem. I took a look at woff-tools as well. Everything looks fine to me, though you might want to know that pkg-fonts is slowly moving to git http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/pkg-fonts/SVNTOGitMigration
<asomething> I think I set DM upload permissions for it, but it's one of those things that I do so infrequently that I'm always surprised when it actually works
<mitya57> asomething: thanks, didn't know that (and that page was created after I pushed it to SVN)
<mitya57> :)
<mitya57> asomething: pushed to http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-fonts/woff-tools.git (fyi)
<mitya57> (and I probably now should remove it from svn)
<asomething> any one regularly running dput-ng on ubuntu? any gotchas to look out for if I wanted to make the switch?
<jtaylor> uds is already almost over? didn't even notice it had started :O
<jtaylor> isn't there usually a message over identi.ca?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-16
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<asomething> mitya57, looks like I can't grant DM upload permissions on a package not yet in the archive. Do you have a link to an updated source package so I can sponsor it for you?
<Rhonda> asomething: Erm, why should that work?
<Rhonda> Do you want to create a chicken-egg problem? :)
<asomething> Rhonda, honestly I didn't really think it would, but tried sending the dak commands anyway
<Rhonda> But you are right, now that it's handled differently, it's not a chicken-egg issue anymore â¦
<Rhonda> But in the old way of granting the right a sourceful upload was needed (and thus the package already in the pool), it doesn't change with the new way of handling it.
<Laney> I thought DM disallowed NEW anyway
<Rhonda> Laney: In the old way it was implicit through the required DMUA flag being in the source package in the pool.
<Rhonda> In the new way it's implicit through dak not nowing the source package you want to grant rights for yet. :)
<Laney> well, there's binNEW too
<Rhonda> *knowing
<Laney> so I mean that even if it did work to add the acl you wouldn't be able to do the first upload because of this other policy
<Rhonda> Hmm, right.
<Rhonda> We should probably ask ansgar if the binNEW is still an issue.
<Rhonda> Because the dm.txt file doesn't contain anything about binary packages.
<Laney> right, must be a check further down in dak
<Rhonda> Not convinced that dak does handle that or whether it was just something that the ftp assists did while new processing.
<Rhonda> Anyway, heading to a talk of Donald Knuth, see you around. :D
<Laney> don't try and claim you've read TAOCP
<DktrKranz> DMs can't upload to NEW, that includes binary NEW as well
<Laney> bah, come back Rhonda! packages.u.c doesn't have Contents for saucy!
<mitya57> asomething: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-fonts/woff-tools.git;a=summary
<mitya57> (wait a minute, I'll bump the timestamp)
<mitya57> asomething: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-fonts/woff-tools.git;a=summary
<mitya57>  (wait a minute, I'll bump the timestamp)
<mitya57> asomething: done
<mitya57> (in the past that worked, and I was able to upload stuff to NEW IIRC)
<psusi> can someone explain to me what the difference is between wiki.ubuntu.com and the new help.ubuntu.com?  Is wiki obsolete?  It seems a number of pages redirect to the same page under help.ubuntu.com/community, and it feels like it is running a newer version of moinmoin.. which one should we be updating?
<tumbleweed> psusi: documentation belongs on help.u.c, wiki.u.c is for wiki pages that aren't documentation
<ScottK> help is for users, wiki is for developers is another way to look at it.
<psusi> hrm... well I'm confused by this page then... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EngineerCertification
<psusi> I can't decide if it was supposed to be documentation for some canonical service or something, but it appears to be long forgotten, and crufty
<psusi> it seems to be cited on askubuntu though yet it doesn't actually provide any usable information
<psusi> I'm tempted to just delete it...
<ScottK> psusi: It does say, " The below information is obsolete. "
<ScottK> I'd just leave it.
<ScottK> There was an intent to do that at one time.
<psusi> was it ever done?
<psusi> looks like the project died and now there's a bunch of cruft out there...
<asomething> mitya57, is that repo supposed to have a pristine-tar branch? If so, you need to do a 'git push --all'
<mitya57> asomething: I prefer debian-dir-only branches, but can push upstream also if you want
<asomething> np, that works too
<mitya57> asomething: thank you!
<asomething> mitya57, no problem
<TheLordOfTime> anyone know anyone on the technical board?
<TheLordOfTime> got a question about an email that got CC'd to the bugsquad but was sent to the tech board.
<Laney> TheLordOfTime: https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members
<TheLordOfTime> Laney:  thanks
<Laney> technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com
<TheLordOfTime> Laney:  can anyone email that list?
<Laney> sure
<TheLordOfTime> because i'm not on the technical-board, the email was CC'd to bugsquad list
<Laney> you'll be moderated unless you subscribe
<TheLordOfTime> hence my being a tad confused on context here
<Laney> not quite sure what you're talking about so can't really advise
<TheLordOfTime> Laney:  anyone can subscribe to the technical board list?
<Laney> yes
<TheLordOfTime> or not, can't even find a subscribe page.
<TheLordOfTime> ... there we go
<mitya57> TheLordOfTime: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
<TheLordOfTime> mitya57:  i already found it ;)
<psusi> so who do you talk to when wiki.ubuntu.com is broken?
<ScottK> psusi: #canonical-sysadmin, I think.
<Rhonda> Laney: You aren't the first to notice that, btw.  ;)
<Rhonda> Laney: And no, I didn't read TAOCP, I was at a live talk of him over here in Vienna.
<raks437> Hello All
<raks437> I guess that there is training for MOTU today in a couple of hours..
<raks437> did I missed it ?
<raks437> anyone..please confirm
<jtaylor> I haven't heard of anything
<jtaylor> it would be an unusual time, given that uds ended 6 hours ago
<raks437> well I can see the time as 0000 Hrs UTC
<jtaylor> were?
<raks437> I am at UTC + 5.30
<raks437> so little confused...did I missed it by a day or its going to happen..
<jtaylor> where did you here of the training?
<raks437> it is actually packacging training
<raks437> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
<raks437> it says 4th Thursday of the month, 0:00 UTC
<jtaylor> the page was last edited 2012, I don't think thats active anymore :/
<jtaylor> also we only have the 3rd thursday
<raks437> by god...I am going crazy for sure..will call my doctox
<raks437> :)
<jtaylor> :)
<jtaylor> < offline
<raks437> I see you are very helpfull thanks..
<raks437> can you guide me a little to find some easy work..
<raks437> I a quite new and very targeted to earn MOTU thingy
<raks437> but this ubuntu world is very big and find myself lost many times
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-17
<DSpoon> hey everyone
<DSpoon> ive been using ubuntu since 5.10, and have been in love with it since
<DSpoon> hope this doesnt sound rude - ive been keeping the universe and multiverse repos disabled for security reasons
<DSpoon> i am currently forced to enable it to install gnome-panel, and just read about you all who maintain the universe repos
<maxb> It does sound like you have a rather highly unusual attitude to main vs. universe
<DSpoon> maxb: i guess i have been reading too much between the lines of 'supported' vs 'unsupported'
<tumbleweed> it's more complex than that. Not everything in main is supported by Canonical, and not everything in universe isn't.
<DSpoon> since ive standardized on ubuntu across all my machines, i do have a certain doubt about having malware injected into a package
<tumbleweed> I don't think the Canonical-support status of a package has any impact on the chance of that happening
<DSpoon> tumbleweed: oh. I assumed there would be some kind of code audit within canonical
<DSpoon> i'd love to hear from you guys about how things are run - it would make me feel a lot safer.
<DSpoon> hope im not annoying you with this not-really-technical question.
<DSpoon> the way i see it, any binary repository would be a natural target for an attacker
<tumbleweed> there is a security audit before things get into main, true
<Laney> I think you'd probably go for a high profile target if you wanted to do that kind of thing
<tumbleweed> such as a package in main :P
<Laney> right, so avoiding universe probably isn't that beneficial
<ScottK> DSpoon: Of course Universe is huge, so there's always work to be done with fixing issues.  You're welcome to join us.
<DSpoon> ScottK: id love to, but ive never coded for GTK, and my C skills are rusty.
<ScottK> DSpoon: That's OK.  I can't do either of those things either.
<DSpoon> i do my bit in supporting users on #linux on dalnet
<ScottK> If you know a bit about shell or make, you're enough of a programmer to help.
<ScottK> Most of what we do for security in Universe is take upstream patches and integrate them into the released packages.
<DSpoon> ive never used make, but its not something i believe i would have a tough time with
<ScottK> I'd never used make when I started either.
<DSpoon> ScottK: upstream - is that from debian, or direct from each source?
<ScottK> DSpoon: It could be either.
<ScottK> Sometimes from other distros (side stream, I guess).
<ScottK> Actually trying to write our own fix for a security issue is pretty much the last resort.
<DSpoon> and we just recompile, test, and upload?
<ScottK> Pretty much.
<ScottK> Sometimes the patches don't apply exactly to older versions, so a bit of sleuthing is required.
<ScottK> mdeslaur: Do you have time to give someone an intro into providing security updates for Universe packages?
<DSpoon> ScottK: im currently browsing around https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School
<ScottK> That's a good place to read up.
<ScottK> This is specific to security: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/SponsorsQueue
<DSpoon> let me read through it; will figure out if its in my comfort zone.
<ScottK> DSpoon: It won't be, at first, but trust me, it'll all work out.  Everything you do will be supervised and checked until everyone is comfortable you know what you are doing (including you).
<DSpoon> let me give it a shot. For a start, ill be around here. Do you coordinate tasks on this chan, or is there a bugzilla for it?
<ScottK> DSpoon: We just launchpad for bugs.  We do coordinate here, but mostly it's work on what interests you (there's plenty to go around), so don't feel like you need permission to work on stuff.
<DSpoon> :)
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK:  security updates for universe i think are similar to the process for any other package... find the patch, patch it, submit for consideration, security team considers.
<TheLordOfTime> at least, for the nginx package (in universe), that's the case
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: That's generally true, there are a few security specific rules about versioning and bug status.
<TheLordOfTime> yeah i leave bug status setting to them
<TheLordOfTime> or i ask in -hardened
<ScottK> Also, for me they are way different because non-security stuff I can upload, security stuff I still have to submit a debdiff.
<TheLordOfTime> versioning is listed already
 * TheLordOfTime grabs the wiki page
<Laney> yeah, all security is unified within itself
<Laney> but different from other stuff
<TheLordOfTime> mhm
<TheLordOfTime> btw https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation
<TheLordOfTime> also has versioning listed there
<TheLordOfTime> which i think is generally accepted for standard SRUs too
<Laney> sure
<TheLordOfTime> yeah, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates, 3.5.1  (the security policy document has a well-working scheme which can be used for SRUs.)
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: The difference is that while that versioning is often used in SRUs, there's no versioning rule for them.  For security uploads, the version scheme is required.
<ScottK> Can, not must.
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK:  true!  I tend to follow the security team's versioning schemes anyways
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<TheLordOfTime> although that should be discussed, making a general "SRUs should follow this: [versioning scheme]", at least IMO
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: Why?  Let's not make more rules unless we need them.
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<Laney> I refuse to obey your proposed rule about not making rules.
<TheLordOfTime> well, anyways, asking in #ubuntu-hardened if there's a difference between main/universe/etc. security patching wouldn't hurt, although i think the answer is the same.
<ScottK> It's the same.
<debfx> ScottK: raring-backports bug mail doesn't end up on the ubuntu-backports list. any idea why?
<ScottK> debfx: No.
<Laney> Driver?
<Laney> oh no, I see it
<Laney> debfx: compare https://bugs.launchpad.net/raring-backports/+subscriptions and https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantal-backports/+subscriptions
<debfx> I thought I looked at the bug subscription page, apparently I'm blind
<debfx> thanks Laney
<Laney> np
 * Laney leaves it to you to fix :-)
<debfx> only team admins can do that
<debfx> ScottK: could you subscribe ubuntu-backports to the raring and saucy projects
<ScottK> I can try.
<Laney> what is Ubuntu Backporters Drivers?
<Laney> I see that in my list
<Laney> Backports*
<ScottK> debfx: Done.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: DSpoon: sorry, I'm a bit busy today, but there's some info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures#Preparing_an_update
<ScottK> mdeslaur: Thanks.
<ScottK> DSpoon: He's one of the Ubuntu Security team engineers.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: DSpoon: and me or sarnold will gladly help you on tuesday with any questions or issues (after everyone gets back from the long weekend)
<debfx> back to 0 open raring-backport requests :)
<DSpoon> mdeslaur: good to meet you. Will go through the update procedure link.
<mdeslaur> DSpoon: cool! :)
<mdeslaur> DSpoon: welcome! :)
<DSpoon> :)
<richft> Hi! Can some clarify me. People who is on this list: reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html seeking for a Sponsorship and the package is approved by the Package Maintainer will get an Ubuntu Membership ?
<mitya57> richft: No, did you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership ?
<alo21> hi... it's time for merging, or have I to wait a little bit?
<mitya57> alo21: why wait? please help us break saucy!
<alo21> mitya57, I asked here 10 days ago, and someone said me that is too early doing merge
<richft> mitya57: Someone informed me incorrectly : ) Ok! Now I get it how is the process.
<mitya57> alo21: they were wrong
<alo21> mitya57, are you sure about you are saying? (with all respect)
 * mitya57 has already done 3 or 4 merges this cycle
<jtaylor> mitya57: I wouldn't say I was wrong, wheezy was released less than 10 days ago
<jtaylor> so you may be wasting your time doing merges before that
<jtaylor> as you may have to merge a few days alter again
<mitya57> jtaylor: one can merge from experimental or vcs
<jtaylor> sure but thats not the general case
<mitya57> alo21: what package are you going to merge? :)
<alo21> mitya57, I am taking a look at alsa-plugins (in main)
<alo21> mitya57, I will ask to the last uploader, if it's free
<alo21> and of course if it is a sync or a merge
<mitya57>   * Upload to unstable.
<mitya57>  -- Jordi Mallach <jordi@debian.org>  Thu, 09 May 2013 12:40:49 +0200
<mitya57> alo21: feel free to merge (^)
<alo21> mitya57, and, as I can see, it's a worth-sync
<alo21> am I right? (just to be sure)
<mitya57> alo21: at least "Create libasound2-plugins-extra package which contains plugins that use libav" seems like a non-merged-back delta
<mitya57> other changes look like no longer needed (unless it fails to build)
<alo21> mitya57, I noticed that the last uploader (in Ubuntu) was Tartler. Is a better idea to ask him if it's free?
<mitya57> he is here (siretart)
<alo21> siretart, hi... can I take care of alsa-plugins, please?
<alo21> mitya57, anyway... how can I create libasound2-plugins-extra package which contains plugins that use libav?
<alo21> I mean... I think I should edit some lines in rules file
<mitya57> alo21: that change is already in ubuntu
<mitya57> so, if you know how to do merges, you'll get it
 * alo21 afk
<alo21> hi... I would like to know if alsa-plugins is a worth-sync or merge...
<alo21> the package is in main
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-19
 * jtaylor wonders if pypy is the slowest arm build in the archive
<jtaylor> building since more than two days :O
<jtaylor> good that it occasionally outputs junk else it would probably be killt :)
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: yip, timeouts suck
<tumbleweed> I still haven't managed to get pypy to build in the PPA build farm
<tumbleweed> (pypy 2.0.x, that is)
<tumbleweed> anyway, the armhf build timed out on the primary archive buildds
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-12
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-13
<dholbach> good morning
<linagee> how can I get the ubuntu package 'intel-microcode' updated? (one was just released two weeks ago)
<linagee> can debian's package just be stolen and used in Ubuntu? https://packages.debian.org/sid/intel-microcode
<linagee> oh wait, disregard all of the above. its already in utopic.
<Unit193> Logan_: Speaking of which, still no word back or uploads of the package.
<Logan_> oh, Debian maintainers have their moments :P
<Unit193> It's funny, the ones I've found have (mostly) been pretty great though.
<Unit193> Logan_: I presume you want to wait for a Debian upload before doing the merge?
<Logan_> I don't like doing new upstreams in Ubuntu when we're syncing from Debian
<Unit193> Alrighty-o.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-14
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> grr
<Laney> forgetting to quilt add/edit is infuriating
<dupondje> How exactly to set an environment variable in a package (for building)?
<dupondje> need to set PHP_AUTOCONF for building
<jtaylor> PHP_AUTOCONF=val dh_auto_build
<jtaylor> setting it global should also work
<dupondje> in debian/rules then or?
<jtaylor> yes
<dupondje> ok thx :)
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-15
<dholbach> good morning
<Danatela> hi everybody!
<Danatela> does anybody know which package is proper json-glib development headers?
<didrocks> Danatela: hey, I would say libjson-glib-dev
<Danatela> didrocks: thanks!
<didrocks> yw :)
<Danatela> it's strange, but I didn't find this package by search
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-16
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-11
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-12
<dholbach> good morning
<Unit193> dholbach: Howdy.
<Unit193> I presume, based on the SRU page, that a package that has had one minor bugfix release and one security release (patches of which are already included) would in fact be excluded from getting an SRU to trusty?
<dholbach> hi Unit193
<dholbach> why?
<dholbach> I mean... what would the new release add (if security and bugfix are already in trusty)?
<Unit193> Security fix is already in, the json output of the package is, to my understanding, entirely broken.  There have also been other benefits as well, including disabling SSLv3 by default, etc.
<Unit193> Err, read the version wrong, that version didn't have json output.
<dholbach> if you're in doubt, bring it up with the release team
<dholbach> they can surely help make a decision
<Unit193> Alright, thanks.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-13
<micahg> ok, avidemux, mythtv, and opal should be all that's left for x264 transition, I'll take a look at them in the morning
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-14
<Mykezero> exit
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-15
<dholbach> good morning
<ljagielski1> Hi, can anyone tell me whether multiverse is the right place for closed-source packages supported by third-party company like Opera Browser?
<ljagielski1> What I'm trying to find out is if this submitting such packages is feasible and if not, then if there is some more suitable place for that in Ubuntu
<Rhonda> Doesn't opera offer their own repository for their package?
<ljagielski1> Rhonda: yes it does, but if it's possible to make it easie
<ljagielski1> sorry, if it's possible to have it in Ubuntu, then why not try
<geser> ljagielski1: if they are freely redistributable they might fit into multiverse
<Rhonda> I think that was the issue with respect to opera.  They want to track the download amount and that means they don't allow redistribution
<Rhonda> But my memory could be flawed.
<ljagielski1> geser,Rhonda: I think so, because repackaging that is done for other distros doesn't break agreement imo
<Rhonda> Is there really a repackaging done, or do they just ship a download script which then does the repackaging for you?
<Rhonda> i.e., do they ship the opera binary itself, or do they download it on installation of their repackaging package?
<ljagielski1> Rhonda: this doesn't look like download script https://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=home%3Aruario%3Aopera&package=opera-stable
<ljagielski1> Rhonda: http://pastie.org/10189960 this is part of copyright with interesting lines
<Rhonda> Ubuntu does also produce an embedded OS, not?
<ljagielski1> Probably this is in the copyright, not to cannibalize Opera embedded OS products
<geser> you mean Ubuntu Phone and Snappy Ubuntu Core?
<geser> I don't know if the repositories are split or shared and how the licenses applies if the repositories are shared with Ubuntu (desktop OS)
<ljagielski1> so filing a bug in Launchpad with needs-packaging is a good starting point?
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-17
<sethj> Is there a process for requesting a package be added to the liveCD/default install? How does that work?
<Fantu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/517021 still not pushed to trusty, why?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 517021 in gvfs (Ubuntu Utopic) "gvfsd-metadata causes 100% CPU usage" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<mitya57> Fantu: according to http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html the fix breaks some autopkgtests
<mitya57> That may be a false positive, but someone needs to double-check that
<Fantu> thanks for reply
<Fantu> I not tested the official proposed packages but another I did with the same patch before and is ok
#ubuntu-motu 2016-05-16
<karstensrage> ok for backports
<karstensrage> i have gotten sbuild building the latest stuff on both trusty and precise
<karstensrage> is there something from that (the .build or .summary or .changes) that can be used to validate that the backports will be ok?
<karstensrage> teward, any suggestions?
<karstensrage> micahg has been MIA for a while
<persia> karstensrage: install the backported package on the target and make sure it works.
<persia> The build output files can only confirm it builds, but not that it works.
<karstensrage> persia, i definitely have done that on several vm's
<karstensrage> but i dont see a way to surface that
<karstensrage> ive done that on trusty, precise, vivid, wily and xenial
<persia> I am unfamiliar with current process, but if there is still a bug filed, report your success to the bug.  If there is still an N testers requirement, recruit testers.
<persia> I do not have access to a decent browser at the moment, but suggest reviewing the backported wiki page.
<karstensrage> how would i recruit testers?
<karstensrage> its a pam library, the cognitive load of "testing" a pam library seems beyond the scope of a backport
#ubuntu-motu 2016-05-17
<persia> Maybe write a test case script?
<karstensrage> for a PAM module?
<karstensrage> i mean what do backporters do for things like python?
<karstensrage> or just anything ?
<persia> Typically more tighlyintegrated or deeper stack components are not backported: I do not mean this as discouragement, only apology foor the process.
<karstensrage> its a really tough problem i totally acknowledge htat
<karstensrage> if i could think of a test case i would
<karstensrage> but pam modules are tricky business
<karstensrage> they take over login type things, ssh, sudo. the source has a little app that you can use but you have to set it up
<Arshid> hi
<karstensrage> fantastic
<karstensrage> the admin for backporters no longer works with ubuntu
<karstensrage> it strikes me here that this process is perhaps a bit broken and maybe it needs to be discussed at a higher level, the concern here is that no one is really doing it, there is no defined process for how someone trying to get a backport done is supposed to do it, there is no defined process for what a backporter is supposed to do and everyone is too busy anyways
<karstensrage> is there a way to up-level this discussion, there is severe dissonance in xenial pulling from unstable and whatever backports is
<rbasak> karstensrage: there are four admins apparently: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/+members
<rbasak> I believe at least one of them is still active.
<karstensrage> rbasak, although i will if i have to, throwing darts at that list has not really been fruitful
<rbasak> If there are delays, bring it up on the ubuntu-devel ML maybe? Perhaps more people on the backporters team are needed.
<karstensrage> to be honest from the outside backporters seems dead
<rbasak> So...help reawaken it? :)
<karstensrage> ok seems like a very thin mailing list and im a bit frustrated at this point
<karstensrage> not sure ranting will come off well
<karstensrage> i honestly dont know how to frame this correctly for the ubuntu process itself
<karstensrage> "hi ubuntu-devel, backports sucks, please fix, k thanks bye"
<karstensrage> so i guess there is a fundamental problem that i cant figure out how to fix, and thats that you cant expect a  backporter (or really anyone; same with debian maintainers) to switch in some random context of whatever is being backported and "evaluate" things
<karstensrage> so either you come up with some "process" which is either severely anemic to handle every case or just arbitrary superficial stuff
<karstensrage> or you "fiddle dee dee, ill think about that tomorrow" the problem and get what you have today
<karstensrage> if the "process" for upcoming LTS is just "whatever unstable did" i see that as valid for backports as well, its justifiable
<karstensrage> this is like the reverse bike shed problem
<karstensrage> youre trying to come up with a process to evaluate nuclear power plants
<rbasak> That's a reasonable point.
<karstensrage> thank you, rbasak the problem is if you dont address this, no one will volunteer to evaluate nuclear power plants... if you dont define some doable process, you cant expect backporters to do anything
<karstensrage> which is exactly what you have
<persia> karstensrage: So, the backports process has been created by the backporters: most things are self-organising, and waiting on some other thing tends not to work.
<persia> reawakening sleeping teams is more likely to be successful than suggesting someone else do that.
<rbasak> karstensrage: the process is well documented, no? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
<rbasak> Specifically https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports#Approving_a_Backport
<karstensrage> rbasak, but those are all just "statements"?
<rbasak> I don't follow.
<karstensrage> rbasak, just say "the package installs correctly."
<karstensrage> no one is going to check that, or even knows what it means
<karstensrage> right?
<karstensrage> is that right rbasak ?
<rbasak> karstensrage: I would take "correctly" to mean "without errors". For each binary package, not just one.
<karstensrage> yes of course
<karstensrage> ive already tested all that stuff including that it works but i know a lot about PAM
<karstensrage> on all environments
<karstensrage> the ppa's have been in launchpad forever... i just recently updated the ppa's with the latest that actually got into debian and xenial, and tested them AGAIN
<karstensrage> but its all irrelevant to a backporter
<karstensrage> if they existed
<karstensrage> persia, suggested a test script.. im wracking my brain trying to figure out if thats even possible
<karstensrage> but it would be a huge effort and with no commitment from someone that could actually backport stuff, its hard to justify that
<persia> My idea was that it would be easier to get testers that way, but yes, it ultimately needs a backporter.
<karstensrage> persia, the issue with a "test" if it could even be done (still thinking about it) is that who is it for. if its for me, ive already actually installed the ppa's and the xenial stuff
<karstensrage> and configured it and it works
<karstensrage> if its for some random backporter with no context of PAM or what it entails, the test just says "YES"
<karstensrage> so its the same as me saying "YES"
<karstensrage> of course the devil is in the details but the problem is working out those details is what the backporter actually wants to do, but it cant scale
 * karstensrage sighs
<persia> Yep :/
<karstensrage> so i unassigned micahg and ill try the mailing list to ask for someone to help
<karstensrage> im willing to provide any technical assistance to a backporter to understand PAM, configure it
<karstensrage> but given the ease with which xenial was just "done" im hesitant without some commitment on the other side
#ubuntu-motu 2016-05-18
<Unit193> persia: Alive?
<persia> Unit193 yes
#ubuntu-motu 2016-05-19
<Pici> /2/21
#ubuntu-motu 2017-05-17
<Unit193> Logan: https://packages.qa.debian.org/d/deluge/news/20170516T003353Z.html :/
#ubuntu-motu 2017-05-19
<tapwag> Hello everyone. I am trying to package a web-application written in Perl for ubuntu called "sql ledger" which is a business application. Can anyone help me packaging the latest version?
<sladen> tapwag: https://packages.debian.org/sid/web/sql-ledger
<sladen> tapwag: already packaged
<tapwag> sladen, Thanks. But this version is fairly old unfortunately. Latest version is 3.2.5
<sladen> tapwag: that sounds much easier---just updating a package, instead of packaging from scratch!
<tapwag> sladen, Unfortunately I have never done this before but I am willing to step up as a maintainer for this
<sladen> tapwag: awesome
<sladen> tapwag: there's two things to do.  First we need to find a bug report saying there is a new upstream version available;
<sladen> tapwag: eg.  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=843941  is an example for another package
<ubottu> Debian bug 843941 in src:simple-scan "New upstream release 3.22.0.1 available" [Wishlist,Fixed]
<tapwag> sladen, Would I have to do the bug report with Debian or with ubuntu launchpad
<sladen> tapwag: ideally we do it into  Debian unstable, because then it will automatically/semi-automatically be available for Ubuntu, and everything stays in sync
<tapwag> Okay, let's do this..
<sladen> tapwag: so perhaps that's three things   (1a) Debian bug "sql-ledger: New upstream version 3.2.5"  git URL etc to get the new version from  (1b) [~1 hour later when BTS has replied with a Debian bug number] Launchpad bug report for new upstream version, pointing to the Debian bug   (2) contact the existing maintainer, and see if they're still interested, or can eg. help sponsor your upload/guide you throught the process
<tapwag> sladen, I have been looking at the documentation and Bug reporting guidelines for debian. Would I need to install debian to use the reportbug tool?
<sladen> no
<sladen> tapwag: email:     To: Debian Bugs <submit@bugs.debian.org>      Body text:
<sladen> Package: release.debian.org
<sladen> sorry
<sladen> Severity: normal
<sladen> Package: sql-ledger
<sladen> Severity: normal
<sladen> or wishlist
<tapwag> sladen, Thanks for the info. Would I need to put in a specific subject line?
<sladen> tapwag: doesn't matter;  but   "Subject: sql-ledger: New upstream version 3.2.5"
<tapwag> sladen, Thanks for your help. Just sent off the report.
<sladen> tapwag: excellent!
<sladen> tapwag: Give Debbugs +/- an hour or so, and hopefully you'll get a reply with the assigned bug number, then we can tweak/work from that
<tapwag> sladen, Will also try to get hold of the maintainer to see if he is still interested in repackaging.
<sladen> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=862953 is the bug that was filed
<ubottu> Debian bug 862953 in sql-ledger "sql-ledger: New upstream version 3.2.5" [Normal,Open]
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/862963
<ubottu> Debian bug 862963 in wnpp "O: sql-ledger -- Web based double-entry accounting program" [Normal,Open]
<chatter29> hey guys
<chatter29> allah is doing
<chatter29> sun is not doing allah is doing
<chatter29> to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
#ubuntu-motu 2017-05-21
<epigfanio> Hi All
<epigfanio> I'm struggling with packaging a python lib .. is this the right place where to ask for help?
<epigfanio> it is about the debian changelog file .. I'm getting this error:  https://gist.github.com/819b64560a75d7c428183feef4865ab9
<epigfanio> but my chasngelog "seems" to be fine: https://gist.github.com/562ea24e34f4f8ae2fe4e89610b6a80e
<epigfanio> *changelog
<tsimonq2> epigfanio: 17 should be 2017
<tsimonq2> epigfanio: Also, you shouldn't type these out manually. Use dch
<epigfanio> tsimonq2: thank you!
<epigfanio> I'm trying to learn how to package python packages, I'm trying to automatize the steps as much as I can .. i didn't know dch
<epigfanio> this is my ugly/buggy approach https://gist.github.com/epifanio/42b2aeeca136b8131ef85dc42bc6ef3b
<epigfanio> so, time was wrong .. i need a different formatting for the year
<tsimonq2> epigfanio: Yes.
<tsimonq2> epigfanio: Also, look into devscripts and ubuntu-dev-tools. Those are two very helpful packages. :)
<epigfanio> time = now.strftime("%a, %d  %Y %H:%M:%S") instead of time = now.strftime("%a, %d  %y %H:%M:%S")  and make sure there are 2 spaces between email and time
<gsilvapt> tsimonq2, to write those parts automatically, I believe you have to use -i option?
<epigfanio> i do have an other bug which I don't know how to solve. in the debian "control" file there is an entry for Maintainer, is the mantainer of the luibrary or the mantainer of the debian package ?
 * epigfanio looking for tutorials on how to use those packages :)
<gsilvapt> epigfanio, the maintainer field is in regard to the package. If you're looking at the debian source, that should be the debian's package maintainer. If you look at Ubuntu's, it would be Ubuntu's package maintainer
<gsilvapt> Not  100% sure what you mean by maintainer of the library though
<epigfanio> thanks gsilvapt so in my case mantainer and uploader are the same
<gsilvapt> epigfanio, have a read here about those fields: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html
<gsilvapt> Section 5.2 (check below)
<gsilvapt> PS: I'm pretty sure you don't have to worry with those fields for now
<tsimonq2> gsilvapt: Oh shoot, did I have to get back to you about something? >__< sorry
<gsilvapt> tsimonq2, not necessarily. I have no clue about what else to try
<tsimonq2> gsilvapt: Let's see...
<epigfanio> gsilvapt: example  i was parsing the doap.xml file for the python package  (see the bottom of the page)  . . in which there is field for  maintainer .. so I thought I had to use that name (which has an imparsable email address)
<epigfanio> v
<epigfanio> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/six/1.10.0
<epigfanio> I see for that page is clear: The package maintainer's -- thanks!
<gsilvapt> Not sure if I helped or not but... No problem! :-D
<epigfanio> gsilvapt: yes! the page on the debian-policy is helpful
<tsimonq2> gsilvapt: debian-installer </joke> don't ever try to merge that! :P
<gsilvapt> Hum, what? :)
<tsimonq2> gsilvapt: Nevermind. :P
<tsimonq2> !info debian-installer artful
<ubottu> debian-installer (source: debian-installer): Debian installer. In component main, is optional. Version 20101020ubuntu505 (artful), package size 658 kB, installed size 1287 kB
<tsimonq2> !info debian-installer unstable
<ubottu> debian-installer (source: debian-installer): Debian Installer documentation. In component main, is optional. Version 20170407 (unstable), package size 715 kB, installed size 1219 kB
<tsimonq2> gsilvapt: See why that's something I joke about? :P
<gsilvapt> Not really. Not sure if this is related to my problem or the other one above :)
<tsimonq2> Nevermind. :P
<tsimonq2> gsilvapt: gsilvapt> tsimonq2, not necessarily. I have no clue about what else to try
<tsimonq2> I was responding to that.
<gsilvapt> Sorry, I'm a bit tired and had a couple of really bad days so I'm slow :P
<tsimonq2> Anyways... LO
<tsimonq2> *:P
<gsilvapt> Ahhh, okay x)
<tsimonq2> gsilvapt: Try gnustep-base?
<gsilvapt> The problem with this package is with patches. It has small differences here and there. you suggested something though I couldn't accomplish
<tsimonq2> Could you elaborate a bit?
<gsilvapt> gnome-system-tools package. It is marked with some merging issues. There are no files marked as opposed to what the site mentions. There are a few warning messages regarding patch files
 * gsilvapt be right back
<tsimonq2> gsilvapt: I'm saying, move on. :)
<tsimonq2> gsilvapt: What about gnustep-base?
<epigfanio> one more question .. those are my first attempt in making debs. and often the build fails because of  stupid mistakes. but then I'm forced to bump the version of the package "up" everytime I do a rebuild and upload (usually it fails building because of missing dep)
<epigfanio> my way to go over this is to add an extra number to the version of the library
<epigfanio> that reflect the build number
<epigfanio> so evry time i build and fail .. I add a unit to it
<epigfanio> is this "allowed"?
<tsimonq2> epigfanio: What kind of version numbers are you talking about?
<epigfanio> example for the python_prompt_toolkit  library:  https://pypi.python.org/pypi/prompt_toolkit/1.0.14  it has version 1.0.14 ...  I failed to build  0 times ... so my package name is:   https://launchpad.net/~epiesasha/+archive/ubuntu/jupyter/+packages
<epigfanio> prompt-toolkit - 1.0.14.0-0ppa0
<epigfanio> i just noticed that my naming is wrong ..
<epigfanio> it should have python3-  prefix ..
<epigfanio> and you can see i rebuilt pyzmq 4 times now ...
<tsimonq2> epigfanio: You should probably be using versioning like 1.0.14.0-1~ppa1
<tsimonq2> epigfanio: The Debian revision should be greater than 0 unless it's only in Ubuntu (afaicr), and ppa1 should be less than that revision so that if the Debian revision is put in the archive, it supersedes yours.
<tsimonq2> epigfanio: Because ideally, you would get any packaging changes into Debian and let it sync down into Ubuntu. That leaves less work for a lot of people and helps distribute your changes more, plus a bunch more benefits.
<tsimonq2> epigfanio: We have a few friendly Debian Developers in here that would probably be able to help you with that ;)
<epigfanio> i'll be happy to learn a proper way to do that
<epigfanio> I'll leave thios workstation on, so I can read irc log later
<tsimonq2> epigfanio: Also, I would look into sbuild so that you don't have to upload it to a PPA to see if it builds properly. That way, it's less time spent waiting for things to build and more time spent actually getting work done. ;)
<tsimonq2> epigfanio: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
<epigfanio> oh! sbuild?
<epigfanio> how to use it?
<epigfanio> that will fix the versioning issue too
<tsimonq2> That wiki page has plenty of info.
<epigfanio> oh too quick I was typing and didn't see the link ..
<tsimonq2> If you have specific questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them, but that [age does the best job of explaining it. :)
<tsimonq2> *page
 * tsimonq2 goes to bed o/
<epigfanio> thanks!
#ubuntu-motu 2018-05-14
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Thanks for that sync, btw.
<Unit193> Obviously, zero delta. \o/ (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/370048242/gvpe_3.0-1ubuntu1_3.0-2.diff.gz)
<tsimonq2> Unit193: I forgot... :P
#ubuntu-motu 2018-05-15
<fossfreedom_> anyone any ideas why http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ hasn't been updated since the Mon 30th April?  Usually it is updated every half hour or so.
<rbasak> It probably needs kicking by an AA-type person
<rbasak> (someone with a login to the box)
#ubuntu-motu 2018-05-19
<sauvin_> Any motus awake who know about hexchat?
#ubuntu-motu 2019-05-13
<Adri2000> Unit193: re filezilla, not yet, but I'll try to have a look when I update the package :)
<Unit193> Cool.
#ubuntu-motu 2019-05-15
<pakcjo> Hi, i'm following the debian's maintainers guide and there's reference to dquilt command that I can't find in ubuntu, is there a different way? i'm interested in point 8 of the guide
<acheronuk> pakcjo: that is a user created alias for a more complex quilt command, so it only exists if you follow the guide and set it
<acheronuk> "3.1 Setting up quilt"
<pakcjo> acheronuk: thanks, i totally missed that :(
<acheronuk> easily done
#ubuntu-motu 2019-05-17
<Eickmeyer> If any MOTU wants a quick, easy package to sponsor, I've got one at bug 1829562. lintian --pedantic returns no errors. The copyright file is a little long, but I went over it pretty thoroughly.
<ubottu> bug 1829562 in DPF Plugins "[Needs Packaging] DPF-Plugins for Eoan" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829562
<Eickmeyer> acheronuk: Feel like using those new MOTU powers? ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2020-05-12
<IOhannes> the pd-py package has very different dependencies in Debian and Ubuntu, even though the versions are identical.
<IOhannes> that is: the ubuntu package *lacks* required dependencies (and the binary thus fails to load).
<IOhannes> how can i debug this?
<IOhannes> are there any build-logs available?
 * IOhannes is on Debian; got a user-report that i'm trying to investigate
<Laney> IOhannes: If you go to https://pad.lv/u/<source package>, then pick either "View full publishing history" or "View full change log", or click one of the versions in the table there, you can find a link to the build
<Laney> s for all of the architectures, and in there is a link to the build log
#ubuntu-motu 2020-05-16
<uebera||> Hi. Currently, it's impossible to download https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu.mbox/ubuntu-motu.mbox -- is this intentional?
<dmerejkowsky> Hello, I've a question about going my project into ubuntu that does not seem to be answered there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages#Requesting_a_new_package_for_Ubuntu
<dmerejkowsky> The package is called python-enchant and has been accepted to debian testing some time ago:
<dmerejkowsky> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/pyenchant
<dmerejkowsky> But it's gone from focal:
<dmerejkowsky> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=default&section=all&arch=any&keywords=python-enchant&searchon=names
<dmerejkowsky> any idea on why this happened and who I can contact about this ?
<ginggs> dmerejkowsky: it seems to be in focal https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyenchant/2.0.0-4
<ginggs> pyenchant is the source package, python3-enchant is the python 3 module
<ginggs> and python-enchant is the python 2 module, which is indeed gone from Focal, but also from Debian
<dmerejkowsky> oh silly me I forgot - I use Arch and Python3 packages have a `python-` prefix there :P
<dmerejkowsky> thanks!
<ginggs> dmerejkowsky: yw!
