#launchpad-meeting 2006-12-04
<_thumper_> Every now and then I seem to be loosing connection
<_thumper_> so I appologise in advance if I seem to disappear
<ddaa> ack
<ddaa> lifeless: ping
<ddaa> jamesh: ping
<ddaa> poolie: ping
<ddaa> SteveA: ping
<ddaa> _thumper_: ping
<ddaa> MEETING STARTS
<lifeless> hi
<_thumper_> hmm.. lag of 6s but lets go for it
<ddaa> == Agenda ==
<ddaa> Next meeting Monday 11 December, 09:00-09:45 UTC.
<ddaa>  * roll call
<ddaa>  * production status
<ddaa>  * status reports
<ddaa>  * motu code-review
<ddaa>  * browsing branches
<ddaa> == Roll call ==
<ddaa>  * AndrewBennetts  flying to Melbourne for leave/OSDC (4th December).
<_thumper_> here(ish)
<jamesh> hi
<ddaa> our senior management is late, but let's proceed
<ddaa> == Production status ==
<ddaa> New rollouts or production problems.
<ddaa> Nothing of note from me.
<_thumper_> nothing from me :)
<jamesh> there hasn't been a rollout since last meeting, has there?
<ddaa> I do not think so
<ddaa> but there can be other events worth of mention there
<ddaa> new fires
<ddaa> rollout to no-webapp subsystems
<ddaa> devpad stuff...
<jamesh> nothing from me then :)
<_thumper_> next
<ddaa> == Status reports ==
<ddaa>  * spiv: supermirror-smart-server.
<ddaa>  * jamesh: spec-branches.
<ddaa>  * ddaa: pyrex.
<ddaa>  * poolie: bzr-lp features.
<ddaa> spiv is excused
<ddaa> hu
<jamesh> spec-branches is landed and running on staging
<jamesh> so can be taken off the list for next meeting
<_thumper_> jamesh: thanks for that work btw
<_thumper_> I appreciate it
<ddaa> _thumper_: did you have a look at it?
<_thumper_> brief glance, but spent more time going through work emails and meeting notes
<_thumper_> to see what y'all were up to
<ddaa> fair enough
<ddaa> we should both try to review the stuff on staging
<jamesh> I gave him the rocketfuel revno to get a diff
<poolie> i haven't worked on bzr-lp features, but i talked to ddaa and am happy to see his new document
<ddaa> poolie: actually sabdfl sort of pirated the stuff I started writing
<ddaa> talk more about this later
<ddaa> pyrex: spiv started reviewing the early code, no major complaint except lack of copyright notices, docstrings, etc. The usual.
<ddaa> I think that's all for the status reports.
<ddaa> == Motu code-review ==
<ddaa> Ubuntu wants to use launcphad-bazaar in mentoring MOTUs: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/code-review
<ddaa> That will give more exposure to bzr and launchpad-bazaar to the wider Ubuntu community. But launchpad-bazaar lacks critical features needed by this specification. In particular:
<ddaa>  * bug 73975: Email notification for subscribed branches is not implemented. https://launchpad.net/bugs/73975
<ddaa>  * bug 58889: Merged and abandoned branch should not appear in main branch listings. https://launchpad.net/bugs/58889
<ddaa>  * bug 71303: Branch listings could do with status filtering. https://launchpad.net/bugs/71303
<ddaa> Everybody please read this spec, and probably subscribe to it.
<lifeless> if we shoud subscribe, subscribe us
<ddaa> lifeless: well, I still want to give people the option to decide whether they are really interested
<ddaa> so "Everybody please read this spec"
<poolie> it's still good to explain it briefly in the meeting
<ddaa> they want to put ./debian dirs in bzr branches
<ddaa> in a team called "revu"
<ddaa> in individual products
<ddaa> (I commented on this, I think the ./debian branches should be in something else than the products proper)
<lifeless> well
<ddaa> and use email subscription to keep track of stuff
<lifeless> often packaging with a VCS will in fact change things outside 'debian'
<poolie> ok 
<ddaa> eventually, use the review system when it's there, but the lack of email subscription is really the big blocker
<poolie> so, ddaa, are you managing the bzr-lp side of this?
<lifeless> so please dont push the agenda of configs or whatever too hard - its almost certain to be a pain overall at this point
<ddaa> lifeless: you are more than welcome to comment on the spec. My main point was that the product is for stuff that's of upstream interest, and a ./debian dir for a specific distro is not.
<ddaa> in particular since they talk of putting _only_ ./debian
<_thumper_> sorry about that
<ddaa> poolie: I'm happy to try managing it
<ddaa> naturally I'll only have as much authority as SteveA and you give me :)
<ddaa> but I'm not going to have the time to do the bulk coding
<ddaa> so I'm leaning towards _thumper_ for help :)
<_thumper_> ddaa, missed the start of that conversation I'm afraid
<_thumper_> is this channel logged?
<_thumper_> and if so where?
<poolie> ddaa sends out logs after the meeting
<_thumper_> ok...
<ddaa> _thumper_: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file8XGyKe.html
<ddaa> _thumper_: in short, branch email notification suddenly became urgent-important
<poolie> is anyone working on those bugs?
<ddaa> poolie: no
<_thumper_> ddaa: ack
<ddaa> bug 58889 is not large, so I can try doing it
<poolie> they seem to be in the ddaa/thumper area...
<ddaa> yeah, they all are pretty much ddaa/thumper stuff
<poolie> ddaa, can you help tim work out how to do them?
<ddaa> though jamesh has been seen to help on this sort of thing occasionally in the past
<ddaa> poolie: that's my plan
<poolie> _thumper_: is that ok with you?
<ddaa> jamesh: how's your load looking nowadays?
<jamesh> ddaa: I've got some bug import code to finish off, which is a priority
<jamesh> ddaa: but I can help out afterwards/.
<ddaa> jamesh: great
<poolie> ddaa, please schedule a regular item to look at progress towards this
<ddaa> poolie: sure
<poolie> ddaa, who's driving this from the distro? who sent it to you?
<ddaa> mh... I do not have a clear correspondant, I'll just talk to whoever is responsible for implementing the ubuntu spec
<ddaa> that's dholbach
<lifeless> I believe mark is initiating it 
<lifeless> on the basis of singapore
<lifeless> so it needs an owner in the distro, and its 99% likely that will be dholbach
<poolie> ok 
<ddaa> yeah, dholbach is the one who filed bug 71303 (status filtering)
<poolie> let's say it's him till he says otherwise
<ddaa> poolie: anything else on this topic?
<poolie> this is really good: not too many more things to fix and real visible benefits
<poolie> ok next?
<ddaa> == Browsing branches ==
<ddaa> The first two question I get asked by people interested in bzr are: 1. why should I use bzr instead of foo? 2. does it have a web interface
<ddaa> Once, I pointed to http://goffredo-baroncelli.homelinux.net/bazaar, but this site was (is still?) "slower than molasses in Canadian winter".
<ddaa> I think we should provide some serious branch browsing facility on Launchpad ASAP. Lacking one is a blocker to "making Launchpad a compelling reason to use bzr". (You are going to hear those words very often in the next months).
<ddaa> unfortunately, spiv who's the current assignee for this task is away
<ddaa> jamesh and spiv know what this should look like
<ddaa> so this will wait one more week, I guess
<poolie> ddaa: i agree it's important
<ddaa> My point is, we really get moving on this stuff. People want to see shiny web browsing to take bzr seriously. Lacking this is harming adoption.
<jamesh> my understanding was that we were planning to use webserve
<ddaa> jamesh: yes
<jamesh> so if webserve is too slow, then we'll need to address that
<poolie> i think spiv may still be busy for a while
<poolie> frankly i'd rather fix webserve first, then put it on lp
<lifeless> If this is urgent, I suggest reassigning the task
<lifeless> as the smart server is also very important
<poolie> since people really want something they can use themselves
<ddaa> jamesh: in the short term, we can probably just throw one big machine at it and adress the glue and deployment issues
<poolie> jamesh, what's on for you once your current crunch finishes?
<ddaa> this sort of thing tend to take one or two weeks just to adress the deployment aspect, even with all the launchpad glue implemented
<jamesh> poolie: nothing in particular for a bit (there'll be a sprint in late January for porting LP over to the new ORM)
<ddaa> then, if it's too slow we should of course adress the performance
<jamesh> so I may be able to help out with some of this
<ddaa> poolie: by the time we get there, it would be good if you could propose a mechanism to identify the performance issues in production
<ddaa> there will also be a need for some Q&A oops-like system
<poolie> jamesh: that would be really good 
<jamesh> the slowness could just be from not caching enough stuff between requests
<ddaa> performance speculation, schmeculation
<poolie> it is also in need of some ui improvement
<poolie> jamesh: let's talk next monday?
<ddaa> poolie: is webserve the best thing we have today?
<ddaa> in term of web ui
<poolie> at least to see how you're getting on etc
<poolie> ddaa:  afaik
<jamesh> poolie: okay.
<ddaa> poolie: then let's stick to it, regardless of how much improvement it could benefit from :)
<poolie> ddaa: i think it can be improved without throwing it out
<ddaa> okay, item reported to next week, we'll see if jamesh is in position to take it at this point
<ddaa> Amazingly enough, we are at the end of the agenda, ahead of time.
<ddaa> == Anything else? ==
<ddaa> poolie: you usually have a few of those up your sleeve :)
<ddaa> actually, the right wording is == Any other business? ==
<poolie> just one thing: if you're taking leave other than the shutdown, please send mail about it today or tomorrow
<poolie> so we all know
<poolie> ddaa: nice work on the 2007h1 document
<ddaa> poolie: right, that's the other business
<ddaa> so, I started writing something up
<poolie> now let's do it :)
<ddaa> then sabdfl saw it and though "great idea"
<ddaa> then went away and rewrote it all
<jamesh> now it is better? :)
<ddaa> it's different
<ddaa> now, it's input from sabdfl, what he consider is important
<ddaa> I plan to continue working on the stuff _I_ wrote, and circulate it privately to mpool and SteveA (that's Steve suggestion)
<ddaa> When it becomes clearer, it'll land on the wiki
<poolie> ddaa, ok, let's have a brief call to talk about that
<poolie> anything else for here?
<ddaa> nothing else for this meeting
<ddaa> MEETING CLOSED
<ddaa> thank you all for participating
<poolie> quick exit from tim :)
<ddaa> except _thumper_ who needs to get a better breed of carrier pigeons for his internet connection
<poolie> ddaa: skype?
<ddaa> poolie: fine
<_thumper_> sorry that took so long to come back
<_thumper_> had to switch to another machine
<_thumper_> and download irc software
<ddaa> _thumper_: I'll write minutes soon, you'll have it all then
<_thumper_> it seems that linux doesn't deal too well with the low signal
<_thumper_> so I've missed it all?
<poolie> yep
<_thumper_> arse
<_thumper_> and I was SO looking forward to it
<jamesh> _thumper_: the channel should be logged at http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<poolie> read the minutes, and let's talk tomorrow
<_thumper_> ok
<_thumper_> poolie, what time are you off?
<poolie> thumper, can you make sure your current numbers are on the wiki
<poolie> 1230
<poolie> so let's talk before i go
<_thumper_> wiki mobile number is correct
<_thumper_> ok
<poolie> maybe from the airport-
<poolie> great
<_thumper_> ok, I'm off to bed then
<poolie> night
<_thumper_> roll on the 12 UTC lp meeting
<_thumper_> :)
#launchpad-meeting 2007-12-05
<matsubara> hi Rinchen 
<matsubara> welcome mrevell 
<mrevell> howdy fellow travellers
* Rinchen changed the topic of #launchpad-meeting to: test
* matsubara changed the topic of #launchpad-meeting to: Next meeting here!
<Rinchen> !die
<Rinchen> !ubuntulog die
#launchpad-meeting 2007-12-06
<Rinchen> howdy
<kiko> hi handsome
<mrevell> hey ho
<bigjools> yum
* Rinchen changed the topic of #launchpad-meeting to: Launchpad Meeting Grounds | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<BjornT> ok. welcome to this week's Launchpad developer's meeting
<BjornT> == Agenda ==
<bigjools> me
<BjornT>  * Roll call
<BjornT>  * Agenda
<BjornT>  * Next meeting
<BjornT>  * Actions from last meeting
<BjornT>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<BjornT>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<BjornT>  * Bug tags
<BjornT>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
<BjornT>  * DBA report (stub)
<BjornT>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<BjornT>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<BjornT>  * Blockers
<BjornT> who's here?
<intellectronica> me
<allenap> me
<gmb> me
<mrevell> me
<salgado> me
<Rinchen> me
<matsubara> me
<kiko> me
<jsk> me
<bac> me
<Hobbsee> not me
<cprov> me
<kiko> hey salgado!
<mpt> me
<adeuring> me
<schwuk> me
<bigjools> me
<salgado> yo kiko!
<flacoste> me
<barry> me
<kiko> good to see you ma
<kiko> n
<mwhudson> me
<mthaddon> me
<flacoste> leonardr: ping
<sinzui> me
<mpt> We welcome kiko's ma as a special guest
<leonardr> me
<kiko> !
 * Rinchen reminds adeuring and BjornT that they haven't done weekly status yet. 
<BjornT> a correction to the agenda above, there won't be a top user-affection issue this week
<BjornT>  * Next meeting
<BjornT> who can't attend the meeting next week?
<bigjools> me
<Rinchen> me 
<bigjools> I am on leave
<mpt> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<matsubara> me
<salgado> me
<bac> me
<salgado> (I'm on leave as well)
<bigjools> shhh tongues will wag
<BjornT> ok, a few people, but probably worthwile having a meeting anyway. same time next week then.
<kiko> I'm here
<BjornT> if you're away and have some agenda item, don't forget to delegate
<BjornT>  * Actions from last meeting
<BjornT> there were no actions last meeting
<jtv> (sorry for being late!)
<BjornT>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 174364, 174368, 174371
<mwhudson> ENOubuntoid
<matsubara> <ubotu> Launchpad bug 174364 in malone "Automatic bug tracker creation code needs to ensure the automatically created name is not used" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174364
<matsubara> <ubotu> Launchpad bug 174368 in launchpad "Search query triggering error in tsearch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174368
<matsubara> <ubotu> Launchpad bug 174371 in shipit "shipit.kubuntu.com is returning a Page not found" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174371
<salgado> I think bug 174371 needs someone from IS to look at
<matsubara> the first one I already chatted with BjornT about
<matsubara> the second one needs stub's input so I'll assign to him
<matsubara> salgado, can you please take care of requesting that to the IS team and follow up with them?
<salgado> yep
<matsubara> thanks salgado 
<matsubara> that's all from me, back to you BjornT 
<BjornT> thanks
<BjornT>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<statik> sorry I missed the new channel, I'm here
<kiko> I think allenap is handling the first one fwiw
<Rinchen> Howdy
<Rinchen> One item today, for bac
<Rinchen> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/173096
<Rinchen> Misleading "Content-Encoding: gzip" header on downloads
<Rinchen> I believe mthaddon has an RT for that
<kiko> Rinchen, so.. we have not one but two solutions for that
<kiko> the question is what do we want to do -- and over to the people in london and IS :)
<mthaddon> RT 29557
<allenap> kiko: I'm not, but I can see what I can do while I'm in the area.
<flacoste> actually, bac landed a fix for this, no?
<intellectronica> kiko: three, even, if you consider jamesh's long-term suggestion
<kiko> allenap, well, aliases would prevent that ostensibly once you registered the alias, so they at least provide a workaround
<bac> bac: a change to the librarian landed in 5309 and is on edge
<kiko> flacoste, yeah, but we'd need to stop adding content-encoding
<allenap> kiko: Yeah, they'll reduce the problem I guess.
<bac> in the meantime elmo came up with a solution only involving apache config
<jamesh> bac: I don't think we run any librarians on the edge branch
<jamesh> do we?
<bac> jamesh: interesting
<mthaddon> jamesh, I believe we use the prod librarian
<jamesh> mthaddon: yep.  That's my understanding
<bac> same for staging, i assume?
<mthaddon> bac, no, staging has it's own librarian
<jamesh> bac: there is a staging librarian
<jamesh> we've basically got one librarian per database
<jamesh> rather than one per webapp
<mthaddon> right
<bac> i propose a call after the meeting to pick a solution
<Rinchen> +1
<BjornT> Rinchen: are you done?
<Rinchen> I guess so BjornT 
<Rinchen> thanks
<BjornT>  * Bug tags
<BjornT> no bug tags have been proposed since last week
<BjornT>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
<mthaddon> I've created a new section to LaunchpadProductionStatus for Rocketfuel-inconsistencies - if anyone commits to branches other than launchpad/devel (i.e. sourcecode/*) please let me know so that I can update this section to avoid to getting cherry picked
<mthaddon> Working on Encoding issue with IS and caching setup on staging
<mthaddon> Deployment scripts have had major overhaul to allow for service checking and code checking (i.e. is the tree clean) on all production servers as part of rollout
<Hobbsee> matsubara, mwhudson: ubotuoid at your service.
<mwhudson> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> mwhudson: you're welcome
<matsubara> cool, thanks Hobbsee 
<mthaddon> BjornT, that's it from me unless there are any questions
<Hobbsee> bug 174371
<Hobbsee> ahem.
<BjornT> thanks mthaddon 
<BjornT>  * DBA report (stub)
<BjornT> stub isn't here. anyone as his report?
<kiko> mthaddon, sounds like you've been positively busy. good job.
<mthaddon> :)
<bigjools> it's the London air
<Rinchen> and good company
<kiko> or the lack of it
<mthaddon> I wasn't going to say anything...
<BjornT> seems like not. i'll ask stub to send his report to the list.
<BjornT>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> Hi! Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent?
<flacoste> i man
<flacoste> RT #29298
<Rinchen> got that one, thanks
<flacoste> it's due for Monday, and didn't heard any news from IS
<Rinchen> the news from IS is "it's on our list"
<statik> My request for feeds setup on staging is becoming urgent, mthaddon has the number already I think
<Rinchen> that's 29313
<Rinchen> got that one too
<mthaddon> yup, thx
<statik> 29524 I think
<Rinchen> Didn't have that but I'll look into that
<statik> thx
<Rinchen> anyone else?
<Rinchen> barry on 29293?
<LjL> launchpad bug 23
<Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 23 in baz "baz redo should use merge3 for conflicts like most other commands do." [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/23
<Rinchen> bot heaven
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: sorry for the botspam, attempting to get a good solution.
<LjL> ubotu: part
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about part - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Rinchen> ok, hearing nothing else. BjornT back to you
<BjornT> thanks
<BjornT>  * Blockers
<Rinchen> Releases Team: Not Blocked.
<BjornT> Bugs team: not blocked
<flacoste> Foundations Team: will be blocked Monday on RT #29298
<LjL> bug 23
<mwhudson> Code Team: not blocked
<jtv> Translations team: not blocked.
<statik> collaborative commerce team: no blocked.
<schwuk> hwdb team: not blocked
<adeuring> HWDB team: not blocked
<bigjools> Soyuz Team: not blocked
<BjornT> that's everyone, i think?
<flacoste> SC
<jamesh> special circumstances: not blocked (I think)
<BjornT> ok. short meeting today, thanks everyone!
<BjornT> MEETING ENDS
<bigjools> thanks Bjorn
<mwhudson> hooray
<Rinchen> zippy meeting!
<mwhudson> thanks BjornT 
<mrevell> Thanks BjornT
<mrevell> sterling work
<mpt> thanks BjornT 
<Hobbsee> %whoami
<ubotu> Hobbsee
<mpt> bug 12345
<Hobbsee> mpt: it wont work
<Hobbsee> %config channel #launchpad-meeting supybot.plugins.Bugtracker.bugSnarfer True
<Hobbsee> ubotu: config channel #launchpad-meeting supybot.plugins.Bugtracker.bugSnarfer True
 * Hobbsee curses bots.
<intellectronica> mpt: ubuntoid isn't here. we should ask mneptok to make it come here
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: don't bother
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: i've already pulled some strings, and i can pull higher than he can.
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: ???
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: still waiting on a staffer to do further stuff
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: (to get the bot working in a useful fashion)
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: i think mneptok maintains ubuntoid (even it not very successfully ;-/ ) so he's the best person to ask
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: oh, i'd assumed that by ubuntoid you meant ubotu, the bot used in #ubuntu* and #launchpad, and does your bugs for you.
<Hobbsee> ubuntoid must be a sekrit bot or something.
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: heh, maybe it's called something different on different servers.
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: anyway, if you say that you've already taken care of that for here then thanks a bunch, and i won't bother with that
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: seeing as there's no ubuntuoid on freenode at all...
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: attempting to, anyway.  and FYI, mneptok has no access to the bots beyond having editor control
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: maybe the ones on freenode have a different maintainer, then. whatever...
<Hobbsee> quite possibly
<Hobbsee> bug 3
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 3 in rosetta "Custom information for each translation team" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3
<Hobbsee> hurrah.
<LjL> ok, how?
<LjL> Ubotwo: part
<Hobbsee> LjL: poked seveas.
<LjL> ok
<Hobbsee> greetings nalioth 
<nalioth> hi
<kiko> hi there
<kiko> meeting over guys
<kiko> go home.
<kiko> thanks nalioth 
<LjL> register it now before something else happens :P
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee>  /msg chanserv access #launchpad-meeting add
<nalioth> y'all have fun  :)
<Hobbsee> dear chanserv, why do you hate me?
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Are you sorting stuff out for us? Thanks :)
<Hobbsee> mrevell: attempting to, but chanserv appears to be fighting me.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: you're welcome
<kiko> heh
<Hobbsee> kiko: what happens if you do /mode #launchpad-meeting -t
<Hobbsee> ?
<Rinchen> finally
<Hobbsee> hurrah!
<Rinchen> sorry I was otherwise engaged
<Hobbsee> no, chanserv is just slow
<Rinchen> I just set guard on
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: i think kiko will have to set the alternate contact
<Hobbsee> yup, only he has the password.
<Rinchen> gah ok
<Rinchen> yeah, chanserv doesn't like me
<Hobbsee> dear freenode, please stop being FITH.
<Hobbsee> [02:22] [Notice] -ChanServ- [Hobbsee] matches an access level higher than your own
<Rinchen> Hobbsee, do you know what mode c is?
<Rinchen> channel mode c
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: good question.  i'll find out
<Rinchen> thanks and why is your access level 49? ;-)
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: lower case and upper case?
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: iz freenode bug.
<Rinchen> upper
 * Hobbsee sets lower case c, then
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: ctcp block
<Hobbsee> This umode prevents you from receiving personal CTCP messages or sending any CTCP replies. This will stop private CTCP flooding. You'll still receive CTCP messages sent to a channel you are on, although the network will block your response to them.
<Hobbsee> it's A Good Thing (tm)
<Rinchen> ah
<Rinchen> #launchpad is -s+n only
<Rinchen> I guess we can leave it here
<Rinchen> no reason to ctcp here
<Rinchen> except for jtv who wants to know if his connection is still alive
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: ideally, you want some of these modes in #launchpad too
<Rinchen> we do, do an info
<Rinchen> just not c
<Rinchen> kiko does NOT want the topiclock on for some reason
<Rinchen> made me take it off #launchpad
<Hobbsee> well, i can't change that.  chanserv keeps changing it back
<Hobbsee> no idea if he has to set it off, or what.
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: you probably want +c in launchpad though
<Rinchen> kiko please issue /msg chanserv set #launchpad-meeting alt Rinchen
<kiko> done
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: actually, you might be able to delete me from the access list
<Rinchen> great, thanks
<Rinchen> I couldn't before due to acl
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: seeing as i don't have affiliation with the project, adn all
<Rinchen> I'll try again.
<Rinchen> -ChanServ- [Hobbsee] matches an access level higher than your own
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: yeah, same here.
<Hobbsee> oh well
<Rinchen> kiko,   /msg chanserv access #launchpad-meeting del Hobbsee
<Rinchen> :-)
<Rinchen> when you are ready
<Rinchen> this is scary....
<Hobbsee> yeah, i don't have more to add
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: why?
<Rinchen> kiko is actually doing channel mod stuff :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> he's being good, and doing what he's told :)
<Rinchen> heh
<Rinchen> Hobbsee, thanks for your help
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: you're welcome, sorry it was such a pain.
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: next time, register the channel *first* before sticking bots into it :)
<Rinchen> I was going to do the setup as soon as kiko had the idea (since I have experience at channel ownership) but the bot was already here
#launchpad-meeting 2008-12-03
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hello everybody and welcome to this week's ameu reviewers meeting.  who's here today?
<bigjools> me
<intellectronica> mÃ¶
<bac> me
<salgado> me
<mars> me
<barry> wow, light attendance today <wink>
<flacoste> me
<barry> allenap, BjornT, EdwinGrubbs, gmb, rockstar ping
<allenap> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<gmb> me
<barry> danilos: ping
<bac> abel?
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<adeuring> me
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * Graduations
<barry>  * Is OCR still relevant in a world with merge proposals? (barry)
<barry>  * Sabbaticals? (barry)
<barry>  * Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry)
<barry>    * https://pastebin.canonical.com/11767/
<barry>  * If there's time, the old boring script
<barry>    * Next meeting
<barry>    * Action items
<barry>    * Mentoring update
<barry>    * Queue status
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Graduations
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Graduations
<barry> so bac recommends graduation for rockstar, but since he blew us off today... :)
<sinzui> me
<barry> naw.  so rockstar graduates.  congratulations rockstar-in-abstentia
<intellectronica> go rockstar!
<bac> whoo!
<flacoste> yeah
<flacoste> it should be a rule
<bac> rockstar's reviews have been very attentive and he asks lots of good questions.  he's ready to be graduated.
<flacoste> if you miss the reviewer meeting of your graduation
<flacoste> you get to be on probation for one more month :-)
<bac> he needs to work on his attendance, though!
<flacoste> that might seems unfair for the mentor
<bac> flacoste: i'm ok with another month of probation if you'll pick up the mentoring
<flacoste> but mentoring is also about instigating reliability in the mentee :-p
<barry> flacoste: right!  or we can just publicly mock him relentlessly at his graduation announcement
<flacoste> barry: that's probably funnier
<barry> let the mocking begin
<danilos> me
<danilos> late but still me
<intellectronica> maybe he should attend meetings even on days when we don't, for a month
 * barry thinks he should /run/ the meetings (including asiapac) for a month
<barry> moving on, but don't let that stop you if you come up with a good zinger...
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Is OCR still relevant in a world with merge proposals? (barry)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Is OCR still relevant in a world with merge proposals? (barry)
<barry> so, i've had a few people mention that ocr seems "weird" now that we have merge-proposals.  so i'll open the floor to discussion: do we want to keep ocr now and if so, in its current form or change it?
<bigjools> weird, how?
<barry> in that it's less about getting a review RIGHT NOW than it is spending time popping things off the top of the queue
<intellectronica> i don't see how it's weird. you still want to encourage high velocity, and you still need some mechanism for allocation of reviews
<sinzui> I say yes, they are relevant. I know who will be taking the review. I have someone I can discuss the matter with *before* the merge proposal it made
<gmb> I agree with... well, all of the above.
<bigjools> OCR is still very relevant for velocity
<gmb> barry: Otherwise MP just becomes the new PR.
<mars> gmb, agreed
<allenap> It encourages people to *seek* a review rather than letting branches sit around.
<bigjools> without it we'd go back to the days of 2+ days reviews, chasing reviewers and getting frustrated
<bigjools> and who would allocate?
<bac> i do see people creating MPs but then not showing up to ask for OC reviews.  so i tend to pop things off the MP stack and then hope they are around for questions.
 * mars didn't know there was a MP stack
<intellectronica> bac: that shouldn't happen. it's a coder's responsibility to make sure that they're branch gets reviewed
 * bac wishes there were a real stack instead of an unordered list
<gmb> I sometimes create an MP so that I can make sure I ask for a review *tomorrow*, but I don't expect someone to JFDI if I don't ask.
<bac> just like when using PR if no one asks for an OCR we would pull things off the general queue.  same, same.
<barry> btw, i'm not saying /i/ think we should get rid of ocr.  i'm just bringing up some things i've heard so we have a chance to discuss them
<barry> okay, so does anybody disagree with keeping ocr the way we have it now?
<barry> 5
<intellectronica> bac: yes, but that should be the exeception. the review process is so much more powerful when you can chat about it in real time
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<bac> intellectronica: agreed.  just sharing what often happens on tuesdays
<barry> 1
<barry> cool, thanks
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Sabbaticals? (barry)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Sabbaticals? (barry)
<mars> +1 for sabbaticals
<barry> on a related note, there's been some requests for sabbaticals and/or half day review slots.  we have pretty good coverage for euro and america these days, so perhaps we could institute some kind of rotation
<mars> everyone needs a break from routine once in a while
<barry> thoughts?
<bac> i think i originally introduced the idea then promptly forgot about it.
<intellectronica> i was thinking about it a bit since i made the request
<bac> i think it's a good idea so reviewers don't get burned out.
<gmb> +1
<sinzui> I recall the backlogs we have when foundations or registry team are sprinting.
<intellectronica> i think that regulating this too much will not work well, because reviewers know best when they really need a break
<intellectronica> perhaps instead, each reviewer should have an allowance
<sinzui> Sabbaticals are fine so long as someone is sill available to do the reviews.
<intellectronica> much like leave days from work
<mars> sinzui, right
<gmb> sinzui: But we have some overlap now. Those backlogs occurred because foundations/registry were splinting and we didn't do anything to deal with the hole.
<bigjools> sinzui: +1 sensible
<gmb> splinting?
<gmb> Whatevr.
<intellectronica> sinzui: i don't think that's a problem these days. we have many reviewers
<intellectronica> gmb: you're turning japanese?
<barry> intellectronica: except in exceptional circumstances perhaps, but we can deal with those
<gmb> intellectronica: Appalentry so.
 * gmb wonders who we should offend at next week's meeting
<bac> i suspect if we have the concept of sabbaticals they will rarely be used.  but it's good to know there is a socially-approved mechanism for declaring you need a break.
<barry> so, not counting mentats, we have 2 more reviewers than we have ocr slots, so there is room for breaks
<sinzui> intellectronica: correct, yet if all the sabbatical takers abandon Wednesday, there is a problem. I am suggesting the we need to move who is working the slots now that we can afford to give reviewers a break from reviewing
<intellectronica> what if every reviewer had, say, 10 leave shifts a year, which they are responsible to coordinate, make sure someone is there to replace them, etc?
<gmb> sinzui: We need floating reviewers.
<intellectronica> sinzui: yes, just like normal leave. you don't allow everyone to take time off at the same time. you coordinate
<barry> gmb: i don't mind floating (i think :)
<gmb> barry: Likewise, once al-maisan has graduated.
<bac> sounds too formal for me.  i'd prefer people just announce they need a month off, whatever, and barry busts anyone that seems to be abusive.
<barry> how long should a sabbatical be?  1 week, 1 cycle, up to the reviewer?
<barry> gmb: cool
<bigjools> we're all consenting adults - please, leave it to common sense
<intellectronica> i think that 2-8 weeks
<bigjools> don;t wrap it up in more red tape
<bac> bigjools: +1
<barry> bac: i am all for more opportunities to wield my power
<gmb> +1
<intellectronica> +1. my suggestion was just because i didn't like the idea of organised rotation
<bac> salgado takes a sabbatical from this discussion
<barry> okay, sounds good.  so if you need a break, please come see me and i'll coordinate to make sure we have proper coverage. please be mindful that your teammates may also need breaks now and then
<barry> okay, thanks everyone.  good discussion
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry)
<barry> i've been using this: https://pastebin.canonical.com/11767/
<intellectronica> everything that's standard, should be part of the form
<barry> and experimenting with a == diff == section at the end so the whole thing is in one cover letter
<barry> 1) do we want a standard form; 2) is this one a good start; 3) if so, what's missing?
<adeuring> lint output?
<bac> the bug *should* be redundant as the MP should be linked
<flacoste> well
<flacoste> bug report are often cryptic
<flacoste> so having a summary of the issue at the top of the cover letter is usually good
<barry> adeuring: lint output, good addition
<flacoste> plus it's easier on the Thailand/Australia/NZ folks
<flacoste> save a trip to Launchpad
<gmb> flacoste: They chose to live on the wrong side of the internet.
<gmb> Bugger 'em.
 * gmb jokes, because thumper is bigger than he is
<sinzui> I often have a == rules == section that defines the scope of the fix.
<barry> flacoste: i agree.  i've found it's good to have a summary there
<intellectronica> sinzui: what does "the scope of the fix" mean?
<barry> sinzui: i think that's what my "proposed fix" section is for iiuc
<bac> ok, ok, my point is we agreed earlier that we should use --fixes or another mechanism to link the bug.  i've been requesting it when not done.
<barry> bac: yes, definitely --fixes is a good thing, but under the = Bug XXXXX = section, i usually put a summary of what the bug is about
<intellectronica> right, and the scope of the fix should usually be the bug
<bac> barry: yes, good idea.
<barry> does anybody disagree that we should have a standard form?
<sinzui> intellectronica: I write down what the crucial changes that need to happen. There are lots of other things that can complicate the fix, or introduce feature creep.
<intellectronica> i agree, but i think that we should aim at making it part of launchpad itself, not some kind of template
<intellectronica> sinzui: makes sense. that's something that is always good to have
<barry> intellectronica: agreed, but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good :)
<bigjools> intellectronica: +1
<bigjools> greasemonkey script? :)
<intellectronica> huh?
<sinzui> intellectronica: I started doing it to make myself focus on the fix. I kept doing it because I could point to that when the branch is a CP candidate.
<barry> bigjools: api/bzr plugin? :)
<barry> sinzui: also, i'm trying hard to start filliing out the template as soon as i start the branch, and not to wait until the mp is posted
<gmb> barry: We could start by repurposing bzr write-cover-letter...
<bigjools> barry: or that!
<allenap> If this template is good it should go in the tree I think.
<sinzui> barry: I have a macro that prompts me for it
<barry> gmb: i'm thinking something like that
<barry> sinzui: gedit macro?
<sinzui> yes
<barry> cool
<barry> if there are no objections, i'll take this to the mailing list
<barry> and if anybody wants to work on a plugin to use it, i'll help out
 * gmb wishes he had time
<bigjools> api support through lpreview would be awesome
<barry> gmb: forced vacation is coming up :)
<flacoste> gmb: time is left-brain illusion, you have it :-)
<gmb> barry: Really? I thought it was UDS...
 * bigjools concentrates hard like Hiro
<barry> anyway, that's everything on my list.  does anybody have an item not on the agenda?
<bigjools> barry: I did add something
<bigjools> but it's not on your agenda here for some reason
 * barry refreshes
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Gotchas with new celebrities (Julian)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Gotchas with new celebrities (Julian)
<barry> bigjools: the floor is yours
<bigjools> We had a problem in the week with an oops being generated because Celso added a new celebrity and some bugs code on edge was trying to iterate over them
<bigjools> so it's just a heads up to say, if you add celebrities, remember to find a LOSA to patch the DB as well
<bigjools> EOF
<intellectronica> surely we can find a better way?...
<intellectronica> i won't remember this
<bigjools> don't iterate over celebs? :)
<bigjools> why does it need to do that anyway?
<intellectronica> either that, or test on startup?
<gmb> bigjools: which file?
<bigjools> gmb: I can't remember, let me take a look
<gmb> ok
<allenap> There's some code that checks if a bug tracker is a celebrity, in which case deletion is forbidden.
<gmb> Hum.
<allenap> It does it by iterating through all the celebs.
 * rockstar mes
<gmb> allenap: Let's discuss this outside the meeting
<allenap> Yep.
<sinzui> doesn't adding a celebrity require a DB patch? I had to do that when working with the janitor
<gmb> sinzui: Not necessarily.
<gmb> And usually, no.
<flacoste> gmb: well kind oif
<bigjools> sinzui: just a new row
<flacoste> actually it does
<gmb> sampledata change
<flacoste> yeah, right
<flacoste> but you should do that using a db patch
<flacoste> so that it's applied automatically on roll-out
<gmb> flacoste: Unless you're adding something as a celeb that already exists in prod.
<flacoste> right
<bigjools> gmb: OOPS-1063EC95
<gmb> flacoste: Is that in our guidelines for adding a celebrity?
<gmb> bigjools: Ta
<flacoste> gmb: using a db patch?
<barry> that makes sense then: if the celeb exists on prod, add sample data.  if not, db patch is necessary to add it in both places
<gmb> flacoste: Yes
<barry> does that make sense?
<flacoste> i'm not even sure we have formalized guidlines on this
<flacoste> but yes, barry's suggestion is sane
<flacoste> and by using a db patch, your code won't run on edge
<flacoste> until the DB has the celebrity
<bigjools> hmmm that's kinda restrictive
<flacoste> bigjools: well, that's the policy, there might be reason to do otherwise
<barry> flacoste: i agree
<flacoste> but in that case, you should know what you are doing
<bigjools> okay
<flacoste> and not trigger an OOPS on edge :-)
<bigjools> I'm entirely innocent (this time)
<bigjools> :)
<flacoste> bigjools and innocence together, i can't believe it
<barry> [ACTION] someone capture celeb addition policy in dev wiki, when the reviewer-tips have been moved from the old wiki
<MootBot> ACTION received:  someone capture celeb addition policy in dev wiki, when the reviewer-tips have been moved from the old wiki
<flacoste> barry, that's an action that will never happen!
 * bigjools considers kicking sand at flacoste at the TL sprint
<barry> flacoste: indeed :)
<barry> anyway, that's all the time we have today
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:48.
<barry> thanks everyone!
<intellectronica> thanks barry
<bigjools> thanks barry
<barry> see y'all back a the ranch
<flacoste> bigjools: sand will be nice change from snow!
<bigjools> flacoste: amen brother :)
<bigjools> it's warm here today, we're 4C
<flacoste> 0C here!
<al-maisan> Hello there and sorry for being late
<flacoste> with a dull grey sky
<bigjools> ah well it was bright blue here but it's nearly dark now :)
<flacoste> bright blue is nice!
<flacoste> dull grey kills my productivity
<bigjools> I hear ya
 * gmb is waiting for the snow to come
#launchpad-meeting 2008-12-04
<Ursinha> that time of the week is coming
<intellectronica> it's weekend already?
<Ursinha> intellectronica, almost :)
<Ursinha> it's show time
<intellectronica> maaan
<Ursinha> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is Ursinha.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<sinzui> me
<rockstar> me
<Ursinha> haha
<Ursinha> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<Ursinha> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<Ursinha> now you can say mee
<Ursinha> me
<rockstar> me (again)
<sinzui> me
<intellectronica> meaux
<Ursinha> erm
<flacoste> me
<bigjools> me
<Ursinha> who's missing
<Ursinha> a losa?
<intellectronica> stub?
<Ursinha> herb, ping
<matsubara_> I'm here
<herb> me
<matsubara_> me
<Ursinha> stub is not here, it seems
<Ursinha> flacoste, do you know anything about him?
<flacoste> he's on leave
<Ursinha> flacoste, oh, okay
<intellectronica> oh, so what's with db schema reviews?
<matsubara_> [action] email stub asking for the DBA report
<Ursinha> [action] email stub asking for the DBA report
<MootBot> ACTION received:  email stub asking for the DBA report
<rockstar> matsubara_, you have no Priesthood with Mootbot!
<Ursinha> well, flacoste, can you be stub's ears today?
<matsubara_> yeah, not today :-)
<Ursinha> eyes, in case
<Ursinha> well
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Agenda
<Ursinha>  * Next meeting
<Ursinha>  * Actions from last meeting
<Ursinha>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<Ursinha>  * QA pending items
<Ursinha>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<Ursinha>  * DBA report (DBA contact)
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Next meeting
<Ursinha> okay for you?
<Ursinha> same time and yada yada?
<matsubara_> fine by me
<Ursinha> hi henninge :)
<henninge> me!
<matsubara_> hi henninge
<Ursinha> cool
<flacoste> Ursinha: yes, i'll proxy stuff to stub
<intellectronica> some ppl may be in UDS? (not me)
<Ursinha> so that's fine
<Ursinha> flacoste, thanks
<henninge> hi!
<matsubara_> ok, any of the QA contacts will be attending UDS?
<flacoste> not me
<flacoste> not stub
<bigjools> nope
<henninge> not me, but the rest of my team
<rockstar> no
<Ursinha> henninge, but you're the QA contact, so whatever
<Ursinha> :)
<henninge> :)
<Ursinha> ok, fine
<matsubara_> sinzui: ?
<sinzui> No I will not
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara_> ok, so same time next week
<Ursinha> * gmb to add sql to hide bug 297388 as a fix for bug 300324
<Ursinha> * abentley to talk to code team about bug 301595
<Ursinha> * matsubara email losas to request operations report
<Ursinha> * matsubara email stub to request dba report
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: HTTP Error 500: Internal Server Error (https://launchpad.net/bugs/297388/+text)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300324 in malone "Bug 297388 OOPSing because had its 0 comment deleted" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300324
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301595 in launchpad-bazaar "OOPS when deleting a branch with revisions" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301595
<Ursinha> uh-oh
<Ursinha> damn bug
<matsubara_> I did my two items and losas/stub emailed their reports to the list
<Ursinha> matsubara_, nice, thanks
<Ursinha> abentley must have talked with code people, that bug is fix committed
<Ursinha> and intellectronica, do you know about bug 300324?
<Ursinha> it's still triaged
<intellectronica> i don't
 * intellectronica looking
<Ursinha> well
<intellectronica> the comment says it all
<matsubara_> Ursinha, intellectronica: I'll chase that one. it's a simple SQL that needs approval to hide #297388
<intellectronica> these are quite exceptional, so for now we're happy to deal with them on an individual basis
<Ursinha> but it will be fixed, that's the point :)
<Ursinha> thanks matsubara_
<matsubara_> [action] matsubara to talk with gmb and add sql to hide bug 297388 as a fix for bug 300324
<intellectronica> we already have the db infrastructure for dealing with this in a better way, but it's not the highest priority to finish that
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: HTTP Error 500: Internal Server Error (https://launchpad.net/bugs/297388/+text)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300324 in malone "Bug 297388 OOPSing because had its 0 comment deleted" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300324
<Ursinha> [action] matsubara to talk with gmb and add sql to hide bug 2-9-7-3-8-8 as a fix for bug 300324
<MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to talk with gmb and add sql to hide bug 2-9-7-3-8-8 as a fix for bug 300324
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 2 could not be found
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 2 could not be found
<Ursinha> okay
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * QA pending items
<MootBot> New Topic:  * QA pending items
<Ursinha> well, I can see that there are lots of items to be tested on your testplans
<Ursinha> are you having problems on testing them?
<Ursinha> I
<Ursinha> my fear is that we start to test it too late
<matsubara_> [action] ursinha to add QA pending items topic to the MeetingPage agenda
<Ursinha> matsubara_, it's done already
<intellectronica> some of the landings on our team are not really testable (some of the hwdb stuff). i'll see that the rest are tested promptly
<matsubara_> Ursinha: all right. thanks
<sinzui> Ursinha: Registry has been finding lots of bugs, so some of the items we are working on will not move to OK until we close the blocking bugs
<Ursinha> so, rockstar, can you ask your team what can be done about that, please?
<Ursinha> sinzui, that's okay, you have lots of tested items
<rockstar> Ursinha, yup, making a note now.
<Ursinha> rockstar, thanks
<Ursinha> [action] rockstar to talk with code team about their pending QA items
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rockstar to talk with code team about their pending QA items
<Ursinha> okay
<Ursinha> henninge, can you do the same too, please?
<henninge> will do
<Ursinha> thanks henninge
<Ursinha> [action] henninge  to talk with translation team about their pending QA items
<MootBot> ACTION received:  henninge  to talk with translation team about their pending QA items
<Ursinha> bigjools, what about you?
<Ursinha> souyz has a lot of items
<bigjools> we've been QA-ing fine
<bigjools> but they're arriving thick and fast again
 * bigjools will prod people
<Ursinha> bigjools, it's true
<Ursinha> how are you doing QA?
<Ursinha> at the end of the week, on demand or what?
<bigjools> when time allows after the branch lands
<Ursinha> flacoste, sinzui, henninge, rockstar ^
<Ursinha> intellectronica, ^
<flacoste> like bigjools
<Ursinha> bigjools, flacoste okay
<sinzui> Ursinha: we are QAing a day after each landing
<flacoste> ideally the day after it lands
<henninge> on demand
<intellectronica> we do it when we can
<Ursinha> sinzui, awesome
<flacoste> but unless i prompt people it doesn't happen
<intellectronica> and try to remind each other that it's important to do
<bigjools> flacoste: right, same here
<flacoste> but this is really because we don't land that many QA-able changes
<Ursinha> bigjools, flacoste, this is not quite that good
<flacoste> most of work recently was on non front-end stuff
<Ursinha> flacoste, I see you have only two items in there
<bigjools> Ursinha: it has to be balanced with other important stuff
<Ursinha> so I understand
<intellectronica> sinzui's sounds like the sanest. i will suggest that we follow the same rule
<bigjools> so it may go 2/3 days and then we'll clear them
<Ursinha> bigjools, I understand, but as it's important too, I'd like to ask you please, please, to ask us help
<Ursinha> if we can test it for you, we'll do
<bigjools> Ursinha: ok!  please test all our items ;)
<sinzui> intellectronica: of course that assume staging *is* updating.
<Ursinha> bigjools, ha ha
<intellectronica> sinzui: if we all adopt this rule, there will be many people on the case. sometimes staging doesn't update on purpose, but in most cases it just needs someone to care enough
<Ursinha> sinzui, yes, this is a major problem
<Ursinha> in my opinion
<bigjools> Ursinha: you might need an account on the dogfood machine to do some of them
<Ursinha> bigjools, please, can we talk a bit about that later?
<bigjools> Ursinha: sure
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to talk with bigjools about one account on dogfood machine to do some testing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ursinha to talk with bigjools about one account on dogfood machine to do some testing
<Ursinha> great
<Ursinha> intellectronica, we're always watching if staging is updating
<Ursinha> recently, at lease
<Ursinha> least
<intellectronica> cool
<Ursinha> okay, so if there's something we can do, please poke us
<Ursinha> so my beloved section of this meeting
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<Ursinha> well
<Ursinha> I was going to mention the bug matsubara will look, that is the bug missing comment 0 one, ok
<Ursinha> bug 271879
<ubottu> Bug 271879 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/271879 is private
 * Ursinha looks at rockstar 
<Ursinha> crap
<Ursinha> rockstar, that is a timeout in +code-index page
<Ursinha> still happening, yesterday we have a lot of timeout oopses, btw
<Ursinha> not only in +code-index
<rockstar> Ursinha, that might be on my list of things to do today, if the network will let me see the bug.
<Ursinha> flacoste, do you think it can be related with the DB load problem?
<Ursinha> rockstar, okay, thanks
<Ursinha> [action] rockstar to handle bug 271879 today (12-04)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rockstar to handle bug 271879 today (12-04)
<ubottu> Bug 271879 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/271879 is private
<ubottu> Bug 271879 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/271879 is private
<flacoste> the +code-index?
<flacoste> it might
<flacoste> but if it continues, probably not
<Ursinha> flacoste, all the timeouts
<rockstar> Yea, I got that oops yesterday, opened my big mouth, and got work to do as a reward.  :)
<Ursinha> I mean, we had a lot of timeouts yesterday
<flacoste> yeah, DB load increase the likelyhood of any timeout to happen
<rockstar> Regardless, the query needs love.
<Ursinha> for instance, +bugs-index page had 998 timeouts
<Ursinha> on lpnet
<Ursinha> will keep one eye on it
<rockstar> Damn
<Ursinha> well, will keep both, better
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to watch timeouts in the next days to see if they continue to happen this often
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ursinha to watch timeouts in the next days to see if they continue to happen this often
<Ursinha> cool
<Ursinha> so this is all in the oops land
<Ursinha> matsubara is faster copying and pasting stuff around
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> so there's only that critical bug
<Ursinha> bug 269538, that will never be closed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269538 in bugzilla-launchpad/bugzilla-3.2 "Compliation error in plugin when authenticating" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269538
<Ursinha> matsubara, do you remember that from last meeting?
<matsubara> Ursinha: gmb is chasing that with max
<Ursinha> matsubara, okay
<Ursinha> thanks
<Ursinha> so the section is over
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<herb> Quiet week except for yesterday when the abusive user was slowing the system down.
<Ursinha> hi herb
<herb> - We're still rebooting codebrowse often as a result of bugs #156453 and #118625. I know it's being worked on, but there hasn't been an update to the bug reports in about a month.
<herb> - Bug #301720 continues to be a problem requiring almost daily intervention from the LOSAs. We haven't seen an update on this one in the past week.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156453 in loggerhead "production loggerhead branch leaks memory" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156453
<herb> hi
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 118625 in launchpad-bazaar "codebrowse sometimes hangs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118625
<ubottu> Bug 301720 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/301720 is private
<Ursinha> rockstar, beuno and you are looking at the loggerhead bug, right?
<rockstar> Ursinha, yes, it's being discussed on list right now.
<Ursinha> bug 301720
<ubottu> Bug 301720 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/301720 is private
<rockstar> There will probably be some work at UDS.
<Ursinha> rockstar, nice to hear
<Ursinha> about bug 301720, anybody?
<ubottu> Bug 301720 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/301720 is private
<herb> I think sinzui was working on it.
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<Ursinha> sinzui, can you do an update on that bug, please?
<Ursinha> MootBot, you are slow, man
<sinzui> Ursinha: it is in PQM now
<Ursinha> sinzui, awesome :)
<Ursinha> okay
<Ursinha> anything else herb?
<herb> nothing from me. thanks.
<Ursinha> okay, rockstar, can you manage having something reported on those bugs, pretty please?
<rockstar> Ursinha, doing that now.
<Ursinha> rockstar, thanks!
<Ursinha> [action] rockstar to manage having something reported on bug 118625 and bug 156453
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rockstar to manage having something reported on bug 118625 and bug 156453
<Ursinha> okay
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 118625 in launchpad-bazaar "codebrowse sometimes hangs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118625
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156453 in loggerhead "production loggerhead branch leaks memory" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156453
<Ursinha> moving on again
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * DBA report (DBA contact)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (DBA contact)
<Ursinha> stub, that is
<Ursinha> that's not here
<Ursinha> and matsubara will mail him about his report
<Ursinha> so
<Ursinha> anyone have something to declare before I end all this?
<flacoste> i have
<flacoste> edge should run replicated as of tomorrow
<flacoste> so watch out for any strange OOPS
<Ursinha> flacoste, sure!
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to watch for strange OOPSes on edge in the next days
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ursinha to watch for strange OOPSes on edge in the next days
<Ursinha> anything else?
 * Ursinha looks at the clock
<Ursinha> okay
<Ursinha> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
<Ursinha> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:33.
<Ursinha> thanks guys
<Ursinha> see you next week!
<matsubara> thanks Ursinha
<intellectronica> thanks Ursinha
 * rockstar goes to get dressed and shovel snow.
#launchpad-meeting 2008-12-07
<Alexplay> http://mivenganza.com/index.php?c=viral&m=index&id=563c74d45bc246f4099d8dbbcf400b39
#launchpad-meeting 2009-12-02
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hello everybody and welcome to this week's ameu meeting who's here today?
<adeuring1> me
<noodles775> me
 * bigjools will not be here and apologises for the late apologies
<salgado> me
<barry> bigjools: no worries
<henninge> me
 * jml dittos bigjools
<bigjools> barry: blame flacoste :)
<deryck> me
<jml> barry, and can we please talk some time about my reviewer status & ongoing meeting attendance.
 * gary_poster dittos bigjools and jml.  I'l try to be back quickly though
<intellectronica> me
<barry> jml: sure.  you mean, outside of this meeting, right?
<barry> no worries guys, the agenda is light today
 * barry wonders if mars is around
<barry> EdwinGrubbs danilo_ bac sinzui allenap BjornT_ ping
<sinzui> me
<allenap> me
<mars> me
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<henninge> barry: danilo_ is not here today
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * year end schedule [barry]
<barry>  * invite other teams to do lazr-js code reviews? [mars/barry]
<barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<sinzui> barry: bac: sent his appologies on Monday
<barry>  
<barry> henninge: thanks
<barry> sinzui: right, thanks
<barry> [TOPIC] year end schedule
<MootBot> New Topic:  year end schedule
<barry> i sent a message about the holiday break.  i think our last meeting here for 2009 will be 16 december.  is that okay with everyone?
<intellectronica> the suspense...
<barry> i guess there's no objection :)
<jml> barry, yes, please
<deryck> fine by me, too.
<henninge> np here
<barry> thanks
<barry> [TOPIC]  * invite other teams to do lazr-js code reviews? [mars/barry]
<MootBot> New Topic:   * invite other teams to do lazr-js code reviews? [mars/barry]
<barry> mars: do you want to take that one?
<mars> barry, I think it is a bit too early, to be honest
<barry> mars: really?  why?
<intellectronica> mars: what has to happen for us to not think it's too early anymore?
<intellectronica> it's not a matter of time, is it?
<mars> barry, I'm organizing a regular call with the other projects who are using lazr-js.  We might want to see where they are with lazr-js in general, before pulling them into the review process too.
<mars> so give it a week or two :)
<barry> mars: 2010 then :)  but hopefully we can get everyone reviewing lazr-js branches
<mars> yep
<mars> barry, so I guess we can hold that item for now
<barry> mars: thanks, will do
<mars> I would still like the reminder
<barry> which reminds me:
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry>  * intellectronica and barry to draft guidelines for drive-by cleanups
<barry> fail
<barry> intellectronica: what do you think? should we still try to do that? :)
<intellectronica> barry: we've carried this for a long time. are we actually going to do it?
<intellectronica> i rather take it off the list for now
<barry> intellectronica: agreed
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<barry> i'm done.  what's on your mind these days?
<henninge> Christmas
<mars> hehe
<henninge> ;)
<salgado> the release
<henninge> oh right, that
<noodles775> lol
<barry> salgado: :)
<salgado> I wish you all good luck when the time comes for you to be RM
<barry> salgado: why is it so hard?
<salgado> not really hard, just a bit stressful
<salgado> too many things to keep an eye out for
<barry> salgado: i guess one-button-release is not an achievable theme for 2010? :)
<barry> anything else from the peanut gallery?
<salgado> I guess not
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:16.
<barry> thanks everyone.  have a good dayy
<henninge> 16:16
<henninge> barry: thanks
<mars> thanks barry
#launchpad-meeting 2009-12-03
<matsubara> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is matsubara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<matsubara> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<sinzui> me
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<allenap> me
<matsubara> sorry for being late, I was on my stand up meeting
<matsubara> stub, Chex, gary_poster, rockstar, bigjools, danilo_: Hi
<gary_poster> matsubara: hi
<danilos> me
<bigjools> matsubara: TLs are in a call.... :/
<bigjools> noodles775: can you cover me please?
<noodles775> bigjools: OK.
<matsubara> bigjools, right, by the end of this meeting sinzui will propose a change for the production meeting so it won't clash anymore
<bigjools> ta
<danilos> bigjools, we've got an agenda item to move the call, so you should be in for at least that
<matsubara> ok, so let's move on. Chex, rockstar and stub can join in later
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Agenda
<matsubara>  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<matsubara>  * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<matsubara>  * DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<matsubara>  * Proposed items
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara> * Ursinha to send one email to lp list explaining the qa-tags experiment
<matsubara> * matsubara to chase someone from code team about bug 480000
<matsubara> * matsubara to chase code people about code script failures (create-merge-proposals, branch puller and update branches)
<matsubara> * matsubara to ask someone from code about bug 485318
<matsubara>     * emailed tim about these
<matsubara> * Chex to follow up with thumper about the multiple git import failures on the importd
<matsubara> * matsubara to file a bug for OOPS-1420ED1047
<matsubara>     * there was a bug filed for this already. Bug 484368
<matsubara> * sinzui to investigate failure on the mirror prober (The script 'distributionmirror-prober' didn't run on 'loganberry' between 2009-11-23 06:07:04 and 2009-11-23 12:07:04 (last seen 2009-11-23 04:54:10.444057))
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480000 in launchpad-code "OOPS deleting a branch" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480000
<matsubara> * matsubara to ask gary about python2.5 update and get back to losas
<matsubara>     * francis emailed the list and gary about this
<matsubara> * matsubara to ask stub to contact losas about load increase on wildcherry
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 485318 in launchpad-code "POSTToNonCanonicalURL error using bazaar client" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/485318
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1420ED1047
<matsubara>     * emailed stub about this one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484368 in rosetta "LocationError: 'top_projects_and_packages_to_translate'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484368
<matsubara> I don't recall an email explaining the qa-tags experiment but Ursula did show up a wiki page for me before leaving on vacation
<sinzui> matsubara: the script was dealyed, ran fine later. The same thing happened to the PRF. it is running fine
<matsubara> danilo_, do you know if that email was done?
<matsubara> sinzui, thanks for checking
<matsubara> s/done/sent/
<matsubara> mthaddon, around?
<matsubara> I guess people are too busy with other stuff
<matsubara> let's move on
<matsubara> [action] * Ursinha to send one email to lp list explaining the qa-tags experiment
<MootBot> ACTION received:  * Ursinha to send one email to lp list explaining the qa-tags experiment
<matsubara> [action] * Chex to follow up with thumper about the multiple git import failures on the importd
<MootBot> ACTION received:  * Chex to follow up with thumper about the multiple git import failures on the importd
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<matsubara> danilo_,  is https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1425EA795 and https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1429EB593 related to bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/484368?
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1425EA795
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1429EB593
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 484368 in rosetta "LocationError: 'top_projects_and_packages_to_translate'" [High,Triaged]
<matsubara> sinzui, https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1430F2574
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1430F2574
<matsubara> sinzui, is this registry or foundations?
<sinzui> foundations
<sinzui> matsubara: high/critical
<sinzui> matsubara: This may be caused by the replication delay
<matsubara> all right. I'll file a bug for it and ask gary_poster to take a look
<matsubara> [action] matsubara to file a high/critical bug for OOPS-1430F2574
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1430F2574
<MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to file a high/critical bug for OOPS-1430F2574
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1430F2574
<matsubara> rockstar, https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1427EA45 I've seen 4 occurrences of this oops last week, is this a known issue? some bad data? worth a bug?
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1427EA45
<matsubara> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1426EC1536 shouldn't this one be a NotFound rather than a NotFoundError?
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1426EC1536
<matsubara> I guess I'll have to email tim about those as well
<gary_poster> OOPS-1430F2574 : I agree that this is probably replication
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1430F2574
<matsubara> [action] matsubara to email tim about https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1427EA45 I've seen 4 occurrences of this oops last week, is this a known issue? some bad data? worth a bug?
<matsubara> <matsubara> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1426EC1536 shouldn't this one be a NotFound rather than a NotFoundError?
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1427EA45
<MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to email tim about https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1427EA45 I've seen 4 occurrences of this oops last week, is this a known issue? some bad data? worth a bug?
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1426EC1536
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1427EA45
<matsubara> damn
<matsubara> [action] matsubara to email tim about https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1426EC1536  shouldn't this one be a NotFound rather than a NotFoundError?
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1426EC1536
<MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to email tim about https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1426EC1536  shouldn't this one be a NotFound rather than a NotFoundError?
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1426EC1536
<matsubara> we have 5 critical bugs, 4 of them fix committed and 1 in progress
<matsubara> so all good in that area
<matsubara> no script failures since last week (well, only PRF but that's fine per sinzui)
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<matsubara> let's move to the next topic as there's no losa around
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (stub)
<stub> We have had two incidents where appserver requests have sent the load on the main database server over 100 in some sort of a feedback loop we dubbed the DB Death Spiral. We think we tracked down the trigger - the page the load balancers used to detect if Launchpad is up accessed the session database, and our session machinery becomes a bottleneck under load.
<stub> What we hope is the immediate fix lands tomorrow - stopping that page from accessing the database. I have plans of offloading the bulk of the session machinery work to memcache so it should stop becoming a bottleneck under load, but that is work for the next cycle or two.
<stub> We also managed to have replication issues, because when it rains it pours. Both times where do do with adding a new replica into the cluster.
<stub> The first time, it turned out some events where left around that should have been cleared up causing conflicts. So when one of our replicas tried to confirm it had seen an event, it found the confirmation was already there so it aborted.
<stub> The second one, today, removing the replica from the cluster hadn't quite succeeded so replication lag on the cluster was increasing. This wasn't noticed or was ignored, and we attempted to re-add the database back into a heavily lagged cluster. This needed recovering. I don't think users where affected today.
<stub> And that is all I've typed so far ;)
<matsubara> stub, should I expect to see lots of OOPSes in the reports about this replication lag issue?
<stub> I've got a bug open to add some more safety belts to our helpers to catch these cases.
<stub> matsubara: Hopefully not. I'm not sure though.
<matsubara> stub, all right. I'll let you know if spot anything
<matsubara> thanks stub
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Proposed items
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Proposed items
<matsubara> # Move the production meeting one hour later to avoid clash with other meetings (sinzui)
<sinzui> please
<sinzui> I am in another meeting right now
<matsubara> I'm +1 on the change. it'd be actually better for me to have the meeting at 16UTC
<matsubara> how about the others?
<noodles775> I'm assuming that bigjools is also +1 for the same reason.
<matsubara> and danilo too
<bigjools> +1
<sinzui> +1
<stub> That is getting nuts for me, but I can do the report by email just as easily as typing it up here.
<matsubara> on the other hand, what do you think about not having this meeting at all anymore? do you think it's useful or the format could be changed? I see lots of people missing this meeting or not paying much attention...
<matsubara> stub, your section and the losas section are the ones that interest me the most :-)
<matsubara> stub, reports by email are fine by me, not sure about others
<stub> I tend to think email would be a better forum rather than playing Chinese whispers.
<matsubara> yeah
<matsubara> [action] matsubara to talk to TL about not having the LP production meeting anymore or change its format
<MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to talk to TL about not having the LP production meeting anymore or change its format
<matsubara> and for the next one, let's try to have it at 16UTC. I'll email the QA contacts to let everyone know.
<matsubara> [action] matsubara to email Qa contacts about next LP prod. meeting at 16UTC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to email Qa contacts about next LP prod. meeting at 16UTC
<stub> At that hour, it will be drunk from a gogo bar :)
<matsubara> [action] matsubara to email losas about their weekly report
<MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to email losas about their weekly report
<matsubara> hehe
<matsubara> and I think that's all for today
<matsubara> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See https://dev.launchpad.net/MeetingAgenda for the logs.
<noodles775> Thanks matsubara
<matsubara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:34.
#launchpad-meeting 2010-12-08
<bac> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:59. The chair is bac.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jelmer> hi bac
<bac> who is here?
<allenap> me
<gary_poster> me
<jcsackett> me
<sinzui> me
<abentley> me
<jelmer> me
<henninge> me
<bac> jtv is on vacation
<bigjools> me
<flacoste> me
<bac> er, unavailable
<gary_poster> leonardr also unavailable
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<adeuring> me
<mrevell> me
<bac> now we can start.
<bac> first, welcome mrevell to the reviewers meeting and to being a UI mentat!
<mrevell>  Thanks :)
<bac> please, everyone, request UI reviews from mrevell and salgado first
<salgado> me!
<bac> there are no new agenda items to discuss today
<bac> [topic] outstanding items
<MootBot> New Topic:  outstanding items
<bac> * sinzui -- lint changes?
<benji> me
<sinzui> no, none today
<bac> sinzui: is this weekly reminder useful or should we drop if from the list and just be surprised when it happens?
<sinzui> bac: it should be a bug in lp-foundations I think
<bac> sinzui: if you'll file the bug i'll promise never to mention it here again.  :)
<sinzui> I will do so
<bac> * bac to do stuff with maris regarding introduction of design metrics into reviews.
<bac> done
<gary_poster> sinzui, please feel free to triage it as you feel appropriate, since you know the context/importance better than I
<bac> i sent out an email just a little while ago.
<sinzui> I will
<bac> i'm proposing a three week cycle where we concentrate on a new design metric in our reviews each cycle
<bac> first up, is test performance
<bac> the goal specified on the wiki is tests for a class should execute in under 2 seconds.  the goal is clearly arbitrary.
<bac> but i think it is worthwhile to *pay attention* to new tests and the time they take as well as changes to timing for modified tests
<bac> if you haven't, please read the email on the list and follow up there, unless you have comments now.
<bac> any comments?
<abentley> bac: So we're not actually enforcing the guideline, just checking that new tests execute in < 2 seconds?
<abentley> bac: and modified ones don't increase by 2 seconds?
<bac> abentley: no, i don't think strict enforcement of that guideline is called for.
<bac> but i think reviewers and developers need to get into the habit of paying attention to test performance.
<benji> bac: you might be interested in the --slow-test option of the test runner
<bac> personally, i used to rarely look at the time new tests took
<abentley> bac: Maybe we should change it to the metric we *are* checking, then?
<bac> benji: can you elaborate
<benji> if you use -c (colorized output) it will highlight tests that take longer than the specified number of seconds
<sinzui> Looks like someone will be deleting notfound-traversals soon
<bigjools> heh
<bac> yay
<jcsackett> bac: is the "test for a class" mean a given test case class, or given coverage for, say, a model class?
<benji> oh, and you have to use -vvv
<bigjools> where do doctests fit into that timing?
<bac> jcsackett: good question
<gary_poster> benji: +1 on making quick reply to bac's email with example :-)
<benji> a single doctest is a single test, IIRC
<bac> as you see the metric is vague and arbitrary
<benji> gary_poster: k
<bigjools> they'll all blow the 2 seconds then :)
<bac> but paying attention to test timing is what i'm proposing, regardless of where we draw the line
<bac> in the example case i gave in the email, i think the original test took something like 42 seconds
<jcsackett> bac: so in other words, we can disregard the "2 seconds" thing and instead go with a "good lord the tests for this branch take a long time"
<bac> after tweaking i got it down to under 10 seconds
<bac> 10
<bac> 10 > 2 but the exercise was worthwhile
<bac> jcsackett: yes, that sounds good
<jcsackett> bac: cool. thanks.
<abentley> bac: There's some inconsistency between what you said in the email and what you're saying here.  In the email, you talked about incorporating the existing metric of all tests for a class.  Now, you're talking about just new and modified tests.
<bac> abentley: i don't think so
<gary_poster> "tests for a class" seems a bit hard to limit to me, fwiw
<abentley> bac: Okay, could you explain why the inconsistency I perceive is an illusion?
<bac> abentley: from the email "To incorporate this metric into your reviews you'll obviously need to run the tests.  If a test is brand new then you can just evaluate the timing.  Modifications to existing tests should be compared with before and after timings.  So reviewers, either download the code being reviewed and run the tests yourself or ask the developer for comparative timings.  Start the conversation.
<bac> "
<bac> that paragraph mentions new tests and modified tests
<gary_poster> Can we just say that the phrase "tests for a class" isn't super pertinent right now, and that what you just quoted is more important?
<abentley> bac: okay, the inconsistency is within the email, too.  I give up.
<bac> abentley: i quoted from the Architecture Guide and then went on to explain what i was proposing.
<bac> with the caveat that the guide is mutable
<bigjools> can we paraphrase this as "please review how long your tests are taking"
<gary_poster> +1 :-)
<bac> bigjools:  lovely, +1
<bigjools> great.  Next?
<bac> yes, any other topic to discuss?
<bac> thanks all.
<bac> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:21.
<bigjools> thanks bac
<gary_poster> thank you
<abentley> bac: You suggested that we incorporate "Tests for a class should complete in under 2 seconds" by checking new and modified tests, and that's and inconsistency in my view.
<adeuring> thanka bac
<abentley> bac: dammit, was typing.
<abentley> bac: I have a topic.
<bac> abentley: can it be deferred?
<abentley> bac: sure.
<bac> abentley: thanks, please add to the wiki for next week.
#launchpad-meeting 2010-12-09
<bac> hi thumper.  around for a reviewers meeting?
<bac> hey rockstar
<rockstar> bac, hi.
<bac> rockstar: seen any of the others around?
<rockstar> bac, no, but I haven't been doing the launchpad team for a bit.
<rockstar> Er, launchpad thing...
<bac> rockstar: oh, right
<bac> how's that going?
<rockstar> bac, good.
<bac> have fun in BsAs?
<wgrant> I think Steve's off this week.
<bac> thanks wgrant
<bac> wgrant: when do you start?
<wgrant> bac: Monday!
<bac> cool!
<mwhudson> ah, i kind of was planning on not been here now...
<bac> mwhudson: that's fine.  i think we're not a quorum
<mwhudson> ok
<mwhudson> next week then!
<bac> indeed
<bac> ok, well i'm going to find some dinner
<bac> (non) meeting adjourned
<rockstar> :)
