#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-29
<humphreybc> hi team
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<humphreybc> :)
 * humphreybc is listening to some crazy russian music from the Jamendo music store
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: !
<humphreybc> you're back!
<IlyaHaykinson> yeah
<daker> hi IlyaHaykinson
<IlyaHaykinson> i was reading all the emails, pretty much, but been tough to contribute.
<IlyaHaykinson> this will unfortunately continue on and off, but i'll help where i can...
 * IlyaHaykinson waves to daker
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: that's okay
<humphreybc> we've been pretty busy
<humphreybc> have you seen the branch recently?
<IlyaHaykinson> i know.
<humphreybc> hey daker!
<IlyaHaykinson> yeah, i built and submitted a few copyedits
<humphreybc> awesome
<IlyaHaykinson> cleaned up chapter 4 (removed empty sections)
<humphreybc> we thought you'd fallen off a cliff or something
<humphreybc> I've been meaning to go through chapter 3 (your chapter)
<IlyaHaykinson> oh. yeah, first i was in las vegas for a weekend.
<humphreybc> Kevin and I both printed off the manual about a week ago
<IlyaHaykinson> and then i was in Oregon for almost a week, with crappy internet
<IlyaHaykinson> i saw your photos.
<humphreybc> I had it bound at uni, been going through with a red pen
<IlyaHaykinson> looks very cool.
<humphreybc> Yeah
<IlyaHaykinson> i'll print the final one for sure
<humphreybc> I've had a glance over your chapter, while it's very good I've noticed a lack of margin notes compared to the rest of the manual
<godbyk> Hey, IlyaHaykinson.
<humphreybc> so I have been meaning to take some of the stuff that's in the main body and perhaps move it into margin notes, haven't got round to it yet
 * IlyaHaykinson waves to godbyk
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: when you talk to the CC people, you should ask them if the reference 1(f) should be 1(h) in the paragraph for section 1(b).
<godbyk> (was that confusing enough?) :)
<humphreybc> :P
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: yeah, i didn't use the margin notes enough.
<IlyaHaykinson> feel free to change things
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> overall your chapter is the best in terms of error-free
<humphreybc> so I'm not too worried
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: are you sure that this is not an artifact of me using itemize/enumerate incorrectly?
<humphreybc> but I'm hoping to cut it down a wee bit in length by moving some stuff to the margin
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: are you sure? i'm not comfortable that i did enough testing when writing.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: no, I think it's a bug in the license text as it stands on their website.
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: you haven't seen the other chapters =S
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: hah, interesting. let me take a look.
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc, oh, i did.
<humphreybc> there are some chapters that are just ridden with craziness
<humphreybc> we're getting there though
<humphreybc> amazingly quickshot will be ready
<humphreybc> so we still have a chance of getting all these screenshots and translations done
<godbyk> The quickshot devs have been seriously kicking butt.
 * godbyk is impressed
 * humphreybc is also impressed
 * humphreybc was telling some other people in the community about quickshot and they couldn't believe it
<humphreybc> godbyk, daker, I wonder if we can implement the wiki contributions page with the instructions into the website?
<humphreybc> I was thinking about it last night
<daker> sure
 * daker is trying Ground Control
<humphreybc> we could leave the current get involved page as it is, but rename it to "About the project"
<humphreybc> daker: ground control is broken at the moment, it won't validate your launchpad account details
<godbyk> I think we can probably migrate all the wiki stuff to our own site.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> so this is how I was thinking
<daker> o.O
<humphreybc> we rename Get involved to "About the project" or something similar
<humphreybc> remove the link at the bottom that points to our wiki
<IlyaHaykinson> THE SCREENSHOTS ARE VERY NICE.
<humphreybc> we add another page to the menu bar
<IlyaHaykinson> oops, capslock
<humphreybc> which is called "Get invovled"
<godbyk> Why rename "get involved"?  I like it.
<humphreybc> involved*
<IlyaHaykinson> the problems i see are a) we use the quickshot account, but probably some other name is better
<humphreybc> no because we want the get involved page to be about how to get involved :P
<IlyaHaykinson> b) some screenshots need arrows, to show different parts of the UI
<humphreybc> the get involved page is basically just our wiki contributions page, but prettied up somewhat
<godbyk> humphreybc: isn't it now? or no?
 * godbyk looks
<humphreybc> godbyk, sort of
<IlyaHaykinson> c) some of the screenshots show an empty state of applications/desktop, which makes it difficult to establish context
<humphreybc> the current get involved page gives an overview of the project and who we need, then links to the actual instructions on how to get started
<IlyaHaykinson> i.e. no emails in the inbox, no contacts, etc.
<humphreybc> so we can keep it like that, but rename it to something more appropriate and use the "Get involved" thing for the actual page which shows you how to get involved in the various roles
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I think having some fake (and informative) content would be good.
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: yeah, I know
<humphreybc> I was thinking about that
<humphreybc> Not sure how to go about it though
<godbyk> I just looked at the 'get involved' page, humphreybc. I see what you're talking about now.
<humphreybc> as for the quickshot name and image, we can very easily change that to John Doe or something
<humphreybc> godbyk, sweet
<humphreybc> so we make the Get Involved page more of an "overview" of the project, with some information and some history + who we're looking for. If they're keen, there will be a link down the bottom to the new "Get Involved" page (which will also be on the nav bar)
<godbyk> When we create the account, we could drop in some data files that are filled with sample data.
<godbyk> we'd just have to create the stuff first.
<humphreybc> that could work
<humphreybc> we'll have to talk to ubuntujenkins about it
<godbyk> I think the hardest part will be creating good content.  (especially if we're talking about multilingual stuff!)
<humphreybc> the nav bar will have Home, Downloads, About the project, Get Involved, Contributors
<godbyk> the content should be realistic, but fictional.  (a little bit funny is okay, too.)
<humphreybc> in the future once we implement the launchpad API to use our custom form, we'll also have the "Report a Bug" nav entry
<daker> godbyk, +1
<humphreybc> godbyk, example content?
<godbyk> we could move contributors to a subpage/subsection of 'about'
<godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, the example content
<humphreybc> I mean the example content in your home directory on a fresh install
<humphreybc> we could use some of that
<godbyk> oh.
<godbyk> yeah, but most of that's boring. :)
<humphreybc> I want the contributors to be obvious, don't want to hide them away
<godbyk> fair enough
<humphreybc> we *could* make it a link from the about page but I'd like to avoid that if possible
<humphreybc> so daker, have you got all that? :P
<godbyk> we'll see how crowded the nav bar gets
<IlyaHaykinson> well, the home directory already has sample content
<humphreybc> yeah
<IlyaHaykinson> like pics, documents, etc
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: yeah, that's what I was talking about
<IlyaHaykinson> but we also need emails, contacts, something other than about:home in the browser
<daker> no, step by step humphreybc
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> daker, i'll do some instructions on an etherpad for you
<daker>  yeah
<godbyk> Oh, and IlyaHaykinson.. something we really need to start working on as soon as we get half a minute is a style guide.
<godbyk> a lot of the 'bugs' I'm finding are just inconsistencies.
<IlyaHaykinson> so we need a more precise style guide, you mean...
<godbyk> yes.
<godbyk> Something akin to the GNOME docs style guide.
<godbyk> (The Ubuntu docs style guide doesn't seen nearly as well-developed as the GNOME one)
<IlyaHaykinson> agreed.
<IlyaHaykinson> i think this is a post-beta thing for sure
<godbyk> we need to incorporate your writing style guidelines, the latex stuff, the translation stuff, and a whole host of other things into one style guide.
<daker> godbyk, i found this http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~qense/%2Bjunk/liblp-php/annotate/head%3A/phplaunchpadlib.php
<humphreybc> daker: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPwebsiteA
<humphreybc> without the
<humphreybc> A
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPwebsite
<godbyk> daker: cool!  I'm going to take a look at the launchpad integration stuff after the beta.
<daker> ;)
<humphreybc> daker, does the stuff on the pad make sense?
<daker> yeah
<humphreybc> awesome
<humphreybc> I hope that won't be too hard
<daker> no
<humphreybc> :D
<humphreybc> It'd be neat if we could get some photos of each role, like some cheesy pictures of some people designing something
<humphreybc> (and laughing)
<humphreybc> Facebook says that 91% of our fans are male
<daker> hhhh
<IlyaHaykinson> big surprise :)
<Red_HamsterX> 9% margin of error?
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> 9% female, actually :P
<humphreybc> some more fun stats
<Red_HamsterX> Femals don't exist on the Internet!
<humphreybc> USA is the biggest fan base, with 87 fans coming from there
<humphreybc> Athens is our top city, with 33 fans
<Red_HamsterX> Athens is weird.
<Red_HamsterX> They seem to love my sites...
<humphreybc> We have 759 fans in total
<daker> Hellow, Morocco how much?
<Red_HamsterX> According to Analytics.
<daker> humphreybc, , Morocco how much?
<humphreybc> our largest age group is 18-24 with 35% of our fans being that age
<humphreybc> closely followed by 25 - 34 on 31%
<humphreybc> daker, Morocco has 20 fans
<daker> Oh
<Red_HamsterX> Canadia?
<humphreybc> Canada isn't on the list
<humphreybc> The top 5 languages spoken by our fans are
<Red_HamsterX> :(
<humphreybc> English (US) 273
<humphreybc> English (UK) 90
<Red_HamsterX> Python?
<humphreybc> French (81)
<humphreybc> Spanish (70)
<humphreybc> Spanish (Spain) 35
<humphreybc> we've had 91 active fans this past week, with 267 total interactions... 99% of those were from males
<humphreybc> my new monitor arrived on friday but no one was here to sign for it
<godbyk> aw, c'mon!
 * godbyk hates bzr
<humphreybc> now i have to figure out how to get to the depot to pick it up
<humphreybc> lol
 * daker hates bzr too
<humphreybc> what's it done now?
<Red_HamsterX> It's just cool ot hate.
<humphreybc> brb
<godbyk> I just did a ton of edits, didn't see anything to pull, committed and tried to push: FAIL.
<godbyk> daker sneaked in a website change on me. :-)
<daker> oops
<godbyk> all fixed now.
<godbyk> I finished fixing all the bugs my python script has found so far.
<godbyk> now I need to start reading through the manual again and find more bugs to add to my script.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I wrote a short python script that scans the .tex files for common errors (e.g., missing commas after 'however', punctuation on the wrong side of the quotation marks, etc.)
<godbyk> everyone can feel free to send me bugs that you see repeatedly and I'll add them to my script.
<Red_HamsterX> The linguist in me feels rage at the existence of your script.
<Red_HamsterX> "I shall forever rage at your script, however futile my efforts may be."
 * daker is listening to Outlandish - Feels Like Saving The World
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: The linguist in me is happy to accept any help I can get.
<godbyk> The script doesn't make any corrections.  Just suggests possible errors.
<Red_HamsterX> I'd be delighted to offer it, were I not occupied with so many other tasks.
<godbyk> The pedant in me is pleased with himself.
<Red_HamsterX> Ah.
<Red_HamsterX> Then I like it.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll try to do an edit run over some key sections once Quickshot is frozen.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: There are currently 17 possible errors that it's showing me that I've rejected as errors.
<godbyk> For example, PPA should be all-caps, normally.  But in the case where it's used on the command line, it's all lowercase. So I ignore the script's suggestion to capitalize PPA in that case.
<godbyk> Apparently people don't like to use commas around 'however'.  Fixed a ton of those.
<godbyk> But again, there are situations where you *don't* use commas there.
<Red_HamsterX> I'd suggest a comma after your introductory adverb.
<godbyk> So the script will never make the changes for you -- just suggestions.
<godbyk> It's optional. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Not in my absolutist world.
<godbyk> Though in formal writing, I'm prone to using commas there.
<godbyk> lol
 * Red_HamsterX shall conquer the world, merely to enforce his own personal views about punctuation and editorial styles.
<godbyk> I thought all linguists were supposed to be of the 'descriptive not prescriptive' attitude!
<godbyk> Ha!  Unless I get there first!
<Red_HamsterX> Pfft. Only feminist linguists. I subscribe to conflict theory and I'm on the side that's right.
<Red_HamsterX> ('feminist' referring to the sociological term, not the movement)
<Red_HamsterX> My interest in linguistics applies to machine learning and interpretation, not human-to-human interaction.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Same here.  Computational linguistics.
<donri> Red_HamsterX, #lojban :)
<Red_HamsterX> Aww... You used the name of our shared area of academic interest. :(
<godbyk> And if people just followed my rules all the time, it's make NLP a whole lot simpler!
<Red_HamsterX> Agreed.
<Red_HamsterX> http://xkcd.com/114/ I have to link to this whenever anyone mentions the name.
<godbyk> lol
<Red_HamsterX> 'Cause I had it taped my Eee through all classes on the subject.
<Red_HamsterX> taped to*
<daker> godbyk, if you could pls check if the url_rewriting is enabled
<godbyk> I sent that to my linguistics professor last year and he laughed and conceded that it was true.
<godbyk> daker: if it's not, you can enable it using a .htaccess file.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, wow. #lojban is real. And it's big.
<Red_HamsterX> I don't have to know Logban to converse in there, do I?
<daker> the .htaccess file isn't uploaded to the server
<Red_HamsterX> You could add it, couldn't you, daker?
<daker> i can
<godbyk> daker: go ahead. :)
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: You don't have to speak Logban, but if you use a syntactically ambiguous sentence, you'll be banned. :)
<Red_HamsterX> But...
<Red_HamsterX> Gah!
<daker> godbyk, the problem is that there was already an htaccess, and i can not find it
<Red_HamsterX> Now I can't resist!
<godbyk> It'll take you five minutes to write each sentence, as you'll have to parse it repeatedly just to verify that there's only one allowable syntax tree.
 * Red_HamsterX finds someone who can appreciate ambiguity expressed through puns.
<Red_HamsterX> But there's *always* another valid syntax tree!
<Red_HamsterX> NULL COMPLEMENTS!
<godbyk> daker: I don't follow.  It doesn't appear that there's a .htaccess file in the website/daker-test/ dir, so you should be able to add one.
<donri> http://xkcd.com/191/
<Red_HamsterX> I'm familiar with it, donri. Thank you, though.
<donri> ui
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: I suppose.  <evil grin>
<Red_HamsterX> You might find http://uguu.ca/ar-sphaela/hymmnoserver/ interesting, godbyk.
<Red_HamsterX> Note that I had to make up a large number of phrase-types due to the unstructured nature of the language.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: My class project from ages ago: http://tagninja.org/
<daker> godbyk, It'll take you five minutes to write each sentence, as you'll have to parse it repeatedly just to verify that there's only one allowable syntax tree.
<daker> sorry
<daker> godbyk, bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged. Use the missing command to see how.
<daker> Use the merge command to reconcile them.
<Red_HamsterX> Wrong copy-target?
<Red_HamsterX> bzr merge
<Red_HamsterX> Patch first.
<godbyk> Wow, talk about throwing my words back in my face. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Er... Prepare a patch*
<daker> hhh
<Red_HamsterX> To avoid that in the future, always pull before committing.
<godbyk> daker, if you run 'bzr status' does it show any files not related to the website as modified?
<godbyk> if not, then you can safely 'bzr merge', then 'bzr commit', then 'bzr push'
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual$ bzr status
<daker> modified:
<daker>   default-apps/gettingonline.tex
<daker>   default-apps/listening-to-audio-and-music.tex
<daker>   default-apps/microblogging.tex
<daker>   default-apps/readingcomposingemail.tex
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, your sign-up page is made of labels-on-the-wrong-side-of-inputs.
<daker>   default-apps/taking-notes.tex
<daker>   default-apps/using-instant-messaging.tex
<daker>   default-apps/viewing-and-editing-photos.tex
<daker>   default-apps/watching-videos-and-movies.tex
<daker>   installation/installation.tex
<daker>   prefs-hardware/displays.tex
<daker>   prologue/prologue.tex
<daker> unknown:
<daker>   website/daker-test/.htaccess
<daker> pending merge tips: (use -v to see all merge revisions)
<daker>   Kevin Godby 2010-03-28 [merge] * Merging with main.
<Red_HamsterX> Actually, having those in there isn't a sign of badness.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: yeah, it's apparently all kinds of messed up now.  we banged it out in a week at the end of the semester, so it's quite slap-dash.
 * daker is lost
<Red_HamsterX> Since those are likely other peoples' sub-revisions.
<Red_HamsterX> We haven't lost any data to merging yet.
<godbyk> yeah, those are my revisions.
<Red_HamsterX> And it's happened a not-small number of times.
<Red_HamsterX> For some sort of set expressible in terms of arbitrary sizes.
<godbyk> merging will be find there
<godbyk> fine there, rather.
<godbyk> So daker:
<daker> i am lost
<godbyk> bzr commit -m "Merging with main"
<godbyk> bzr add website/daker-test/.htaccess
<godbyk> bzr commit -m "Adding .htaccess file."
<godbyk> bzr push
<godbyk> [assuming no one else pushes in the meantime]
 * Red_HamsterX holds off his `bzr del * && bzr commit -m "MWAHAHA!" && bzr push`.
<Red_HamsterX> +on
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: you're so evil! :)
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, wait. This is version-controlled!
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: re your script, nice. i'll tweak it for some other things i look for when i have a chance.
<Red_HamsterX> Evil plan thwarted!
 * Red_HamsterX cries.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: cool
<IlyaHaykinson> it's all regexes, i assume?
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: pretty much, yeah.
<IlyaHaykinson> on lines, or whole files?
<daker> godbyk, it works
<godbyk> it globs the .tex files, scans them one at a time, line by line.
<godbyk> not the most efficient way, but it's a quick-and-dirty script
<daker> thanks
<godbyk> daker: so what's mod_rewrite get us?
<Red_HamsterX> Scripts aren't required to be efficient.
<Red_HamsterX> The ability to rewrite URLs.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh.
<Red_HamsterX> Wait. Wrong person asking.
 * godbyk glares at Red_HamsterX disapprovingly.
<IlyaHaykinson> line by line is actually a bit of an issue, since i (and some other authors) add newlines
<daker> we will see if it works
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: right.  so far it's checking for word-level errors (common misspellings, punctuation errors, etc.).
<godbyk> but at some point, we may want to improve the parsing.
<Red_HamsterX> Sounds like something I'd like to help with.
<godbyk> It's one of those 'add features as you go' things. :)
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: feel free.
<godbyk> I guess I should add it to the repository then.
<Red_HamsterX> Right now, Quickshot is more needy, attention-wise.
<godbyk> that's true.
<godbyk> for you, at least. :)
<IlyaHaykinson> what about running it through [ai]spell?
<godbyk> I wouldn't mind helping with quickshot, but I have my hands full with editing the manual.
<Red_HamsterX> Even though I fixed the last major capture bug.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: you could. I've been doing that a bit here and there.
<Red_HamsterX> I wouldn't mind editing the manual, but I have my hands full with Quickshot (and five other projects)
<IlyaHaykinson> i did a while ago; i'll take a crack at it post-beta
<godbyk> there's probably some python interface to .spell, too.
<IlyaHaykinson> nod. i used that, last time.
<IlyaHaykinson> little fixes we can make whenever; it's the large scale fixes that we need right now.
<IlyaHaykinson> like removing empty/incomplete sections (there are still some left over), fixing gross mistakes, etc
<godbyk> yeah, there are tons of those, too.
<IlyaHaykinson> spelling and some minor grammar can be done later, since they won't exist in translated versions.
<godbyk> as long as we branch to fix the spelling/grammar issues.
<humphreybc> well I got my second 24" monitor
<godbyk> otherwise anything we touch in the files will affect the translations as seen by rosetta/launchpad.
<humphreybc> it's pretty sweet, I tried it out with my laptop in dualscreen (so laptop + 24" + 24")
<humphreybc> Ubuntu didn't like having all three going at once so I could only get the two 24" going and my laptop with the lid closed. Was cool but I don't have enough room on my desk :P
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/images/p_00004.jpg You need a desk more like this, then.
<godbyk> daker: I think it'd be nice if our urls didn't have the ? in them.  So it should be http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/bugs instead of http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/bugs
<godbyk> can you set up the site to allow that?
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: is that your desk?!
<Red_HamsterX> Yes, it is.
<humphreybc> awesome!
<humphreybc> how many computers!?
<Red_HamsterX> Far more than what you see there.
<humphreybc> crazy
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: nice, er, monitor stands.  ;-)
<Red_HamsterX> I'm frugal. :)
<humphreybc> what size monitors?
<Red_HamsterX> 21.5", 19", 19", 19".
<Red_HamsterX> All linked with Synergy.
<daker> godbyk, thats what iam doing
<humphreybc> disappointed, they should all be 24" at least
<humphreybc> P
<humphreybc> :P &
<Red_HamsterX> I hate huge onitors.
<godbyk> daker: awesome
<Red_HamsterX> monitors*
<humphreybc> this is my setup currently, http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4472287022/sizes/o/Q
<Red_HamsterX> Broken link.
<Red_HamsterX> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4472287022/ works, though.
<humphreybc> man
<Red_HamsterX> Looks like a dorm.
<humphreybc> my stupid copy and paste is broken
<humphreybc> I think it's parcellite
<humphreybc> nah it's my bedroom
<humphreybc> well
<humphreybc> bedroom + office + music studio
<humphreybc> (I live in a flat)
<Red_HamsterX> Bleh. I'm stuck in godbyk's Tagninja thing.
 * Red_HamsterX returns to doing productive things.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: you're actually playing it? nice.
<Red_HamsterX> There seems to be some sort of corruption in one of the questions.
<Red_HamsterX> As s varies from zero to T, the values of s for which **f and **f cross C will be denoted by **f and **f respectively.
<godbyk> a tip: you get points whether you answer correctly or not. :-)
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, I noticed.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm wondering if the sound reflects quality of answer.
<godbyk> Nope.
<godbyk> The sounds are randomly selected from a pool.
<Red_HamsterX>    1.  a service in the Roman Catholic Church formerly read or chanted at 3 PM (the ninth hour counting from sunrise) but now somewhat earlier
<godbyk> The points are potentially affected by the quality of the answer.
<Red_HamsterX>    2. a canonical hour that is the ninth hour of the day counting from sunrise
<Red_HamsterX> Those are the responses.
<godbyk> If your answer matches the popular answer, you get more points.
<Red_HamsterX> I don't see how they relate.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, it's based on popularity?
<Red_HamsterX> Lame.
<Red_HamsterX> I thought it was based on prescriptive correctness.
<godbyk> I think initially it is.. Initially, you're playing against tagged corpus.
<godbyk> But after we've seen that you're not an idiot (or a bot), then it migrates you over to untagged corpus.
<godbyk> The idea is that you're tagging text for us to train the algorithms with.
<godbyk> (Though we never actually finished the project and got to that point.)
<Red_HamsterX> Ah...
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, that makes sense.
<Red_HamsterX> A lot of sense, actually.
<Red_HamsterX> It'd actually complement another algorithm I devised for a project...
<Red_HamsterX> (That algorithm being a form of crowdsourcing)
<godbyk> I think it's a decent idea.  The gameplay should be vastly improved, but I think that sort of game couple be made fun and serve as a good way to tag corpora.
<godbyk> right
<Red_HamsterX> (Channel full of geeks + shiny toy = Wikipedia effect)
<humphreybc> lol
<daker> lol too :p
<daker> godbyk, is that a dedicated server ?
 * godbyk hopes they're not laughing at me.
<godbyk> is what a dedicated server?
 * humphreybc is trying out Moovida. Want to make a home TV media center now.
<daker> where you are hosting the website
<Red_HamsterX> I think we've outed ourselves as the channel's nerds, godbyk.
<godbyk> daker: it's a shared server.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: apparently. :)
<daker> o.O
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: I think so
 * humphreybc is going to buy a 42" LCD next year with his course related costs
 * humphreybc will also create a small computer with an HDMI out graphics card with Moovida installed
<daker> godbyk, normally it should works with the current htaccess
<Red_HamsterX> daker, where's the file located? I've got some servers I could try it on.
 * humphreybc will hook up small TV computer to his server and enjoy thousands of movies and TV shows along with streaming online content. It will be awesome.
<daker> Red_HamsterX, /website/daker-test/.htaccess
<Red_HamsterX> Can it run outside of a root context? (i.e., ~flan/ump-test(
<daker> probably
<humphreybc> anyone here running ATI graphics with the closed source drivers?
<godbyk> being a shared server shouldn't affect the .htaccess file, I wouldn't think.
<Red_HamsterX> Wow. bazaar is really inefficient when it comes to the amount of data that needs to be transferred to update working copies.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: yeah, it really is.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm going to make sure of two things, godbyk: (1) the .htaccess file is properly crafted and (2) no special Apache compile flags or module configuration rules are needed to use it.
<Red_HamsterX> [############|       ]  39612KB     0KB/s | Pull phase:Merge phase:Preparing fi
<Red_HamsterX> It's... still going...
<humphreybc> so it's not just my bzr that's as slow as a shit covered camel carrying Rosie O'Donnell up Mt Everest
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: the whole branch is 150 MB or something like that.
<daker> 2 days before it was about 50Mo ?
<Red_HamsterX> That was a merge against a branch from Thursday.
<Red_HamsterX> pull*
<IlyaHaykinson> re the website,... can we add a rewrite rule to make paths (/download) instead of queries (?download) etc?
<daker> <godbyk> daker: I think it'd be nice if our urls didn't have the ? in them.  So it should be http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/bugs instead of http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/bugs
<daker> <godbyk> can you set up the site to allow that?
<daker> <daker> godbyk, thats what iam doing
<daker> IlyaHaykinson, :)
<humphreybc> neat
<humphreybc> I was wondering about that too
<humphreybc> nice work daker
<IlyaHaykinson> daker: ah. sorry, didn't notice! great minds think alike? :)
<Red_HamsterX> So what am I looking for, daker?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, that.
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> everyone on the same page now? <grin>
<daker> Red_HamsterX, forgot about it its related with the shared host, the script works very well, i have just to change somethings
<humphreybc> anyone else experiencing this on Lucid? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-monitor/+bug/550647
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 550647 in gnome-system-monitor "System Monitor icons are lacking transparency" [Undecided,New]
 * daker is using Karmic
<Red_HamsterX> So I don't need to troubleshoot it?
<daker> no Red_HamsterX
<daker> :)
<daker> i should fix it
<daker> thanks
<Red_HamsterX> Okay. Well, let me know if you want me to test anything.
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> hey so godbyk, do you think we need a 1px border around screenshots?
<humphreybc> also, I noticed small screenshots are left-aligned by default
<godbyk> humphreybc: hold on a minute and I'll look.
<humphreybc> kinda looks odd for things like the tiny shots which just show buttons
<godbyk> it might be better for those to not be just buttons. shoe the top inch of the window or something to give the buttons some context.
 * IlyaHaykinson agrees
<humphreybc> yeah, that's what i'd like
<Red_HamsterX> I'm only aware of one instance where that's a factor...
<Red_HamsterX> In the stuff I currently have Quichshot configured to capture, I mean.
<Red_HamsterX> Quickshot*
<Red_HamsterX> Quiche-shot.
<Red_HamsterX> Mmm... Quiche...
<IlyaHaykinson> there's the desktop chapter with the minimize/maximize/close controls
<godbyk> did we ever figure out what's up with evince/poppler/whatever and their bad scaling algorithm?
<IlyaHaykinson> then there's the URL bar in FF
<IlyaHaykinson> and the Find bar in FF
<Red_HamsterX> That instance is Firefox's search bar.
<Red_HamsterX> The thing that used to be Google-y, but is now Yahoo-y.
<Red_HamsterX> Well, yeah, those two, too...
<Red_HamsterX> But it's kinda hard to miss them.
<Red_HamsterX> And Firefox's find bar is hard to contextify.
<Red_HamsterX> Since it's bordered bya  mostly empty status bar and whitespace.
<Red_HamsterX> by a
<IlyaHaykinson> hm, can show the lower 15% of FF's window, showing some web page...
<Red_HamsterX> And the location bar has a bunch of buttons next to it.
<godbyk> figure 2.2 could use some more context (p. 28)
<IlyaHaykinson> or even with a word entered in, and showing highligted on the web page in the browser
<Red_HamsterX> Unfortunately, the web page it defaults to is all-white on the bottom.
<Red_HamsterX> Anyone have a suggestion for another page to point to?
<IlyaHaykinson> ubuntu.com
<IlyaHaykinson> help.ubuntu.com
<Red_HamsterX> OH, NO! I ENEDED A SENTENCE WITH A PREPOSITION!
 * Red_HamsterX dies.
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, I can do that.
<IlyaHaykinson> 'cept ubuntu.com will change soon.
<godbyk> did we decide if we needed to nix the ubuntu help center screenshot to free up space on the live cd?
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins got it below 700MB somehow.
<godbyk> fig 3.1 on page 43 might want some context, too.
<godbyk> (like how it looks in figure 3.2 on the following page, actually)
<Red_HamsterX> I don't have a PDF handy. What does it depict?
<IlyaHaykinson> btw what do we do about the screenshot scaling looking shitty on screens?
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: I think that's Evince's problem
<godbyk> So far, I think all the screenshots look pretty good without the border.  Are there any in particular that concern you, humphreybc?
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: ok, hang on, trying this with Adobe's viewer on windows
<humphreybc> godbyk yeah, fig 3.7
 * humphreybc thinks that he's inhaling so much dust from his room
<godbyk> hmm.. maybe use a non-maximized window so you get the window border?
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: it's the image of about:home
<IlyaHaykinson> ok, agreed, looks much better in Adobe's reader
<godbyk> in a maximized browser window.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: interestingly, it also looks good in xpdf.
<humphreybc> does your body have a good in build dust filter?
<godbyk> humphreybc: as long as you don't trim your noise hairs, sure.
<humphreybc> lol
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, all of the Firefox things should have better rectangles now.
<Red_HamsterX> Anything else?
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: does the advanced search dialog really look like that by default in evolution? that's crazy.
<Red_HamsterX> Dunno. I couldn't figure out what it was from by looking at it.
<Red_HamsterX> Lemme boot Lucid to check.
<IlyaHaykinson> that's what it looked like in Karmic, which i jused to write
<humphreybc> it's going to be a mission to get through Ilya's chapter
<humphreybc> good work on writing so damn much Ilya ;)
<IlyaHaykinson> well, it's Ilya's/Luke's/Matt's chapter, really
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> either way, it's fucking huge
<humphreybc> :P
<IlyaHaykinson> but nod, it was a lot of writing.
<IlyaHaykinson> which was nice. definitely the longest piece of technical writing i've ever done
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> time to whip out the red pen and start tackling it on paper
<IlyaHaykinson> my other writing achievement to date is finishing NaNoWriMo this past year.
<IlyaHaykinson> 50k words / 1 month
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> godbyk did you replace internet with Internet throughout the entire manual/
<humphreybc> ?*
<Red_HamsterX> Quickshot has a scrollbar! Yay!
<humphreybc> so I don't have to highlight those
<Red_HamsterX> I'd hug titeuf if he were here.
<humphreybc> anyone got a link to a community docs page about connecting to a home/office network?
<humphreybc> Is NetworkManager really called that? (ie, no space?)
<daker> godbyk, could pls pull the website to the server ?
<godbyk> humphreybc: yes
<humphreybc> It's really really gross
<humphreybc> I want to change it
<humphreybc> Looks like a typo
<IlyaHaykinson> yeah, that's the real name
<humphreybc> sigh.
<Red_HamsterX> Smack Red[ ]?Hat.
<IlyaHaykinson> all over Ubuntu help that way too
<humphreybc> that sucks
<humphreybc> it looks like crap like that
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: agreed
<godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, no space on NM
<humphreybc> I wonder if the world will explode if we change it
<IlyaHaykinson> http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/
<humphreybc> yeah it is Red Hat
<godbyk> my proofread.py script will. :)
<humphreybc> screw it, I don't like it without a space, let's change it. People aren't going to be confused.
<IlyaHaykinson> i disagree
<IlyaHaykinson> i went back and forth on this one
<IlyaHaykinson> but decided to keep it without a space
<IlyaHaykinson> because this is what it's like in help, and online
<humphreybc> If people really do think NetworkManager and Network Manager are two separate things then they are weird
<godbyk> yeah, I debated, too, and settled on going with the official spelling.
<humphreybc> yeah I know
<IlyaHaykinson> and people will search for one word
<humphreybc> that's true
<humphreybc> gah
<IlyaHaykinson> if we care about it enough, lobby Ubuntu to change it
<humphreybc> it just looks so CRAP
<IlyaHaykinson> they changed Totem to just "Movie Player"
<humphreybc> I'm sure it doesn't fit in with the Gnome HIG
<IlyaHaykinson> and changed all the OO names too.
<humphreybc> Rhythmbox is now "Music Player" btw
<IlyaHaykinson> nice.
<humphreybc> It still has Rhythmbox in the menu
<humphreybc> but the window titles are all "Music Player"
<humphreybc> which is actually a bit crap
<IlyaHaykinson> i think we mention both names in chapters
<IlyaHaykinson> er, sections
<IlyaHaykinson> but then stick with the dominant name
<IlyaHaykinson> so refenreces to Totem will be "the Totem Movie Player" etc
<IlyaHaykinson> i don't know how consistent we are tho
<humphreybc> anyone know whether NetworkManager breaks the GNOME HIG?
<IlyaHaykinson> i don't think HIGs cover naming
<IlyaHaykinson> after all, "GNOME"
<humphreybc> they do
<humphreybc> no they do
<humphreybc> they're changing gtk-mydesktop-recorder
<humphreybc> to something like "Screen Recorder"
<IlyaHaykinson> "GNOME" itself breaks whatever guidelines they probably have
<humphreybc> because of the HIG
<godbyk> Last I remember, they say 'Movie Player' if you only have the default installed (as no one knows what 'Totem' alone means), but if you have more than one installed or if there's ambiguity, it's 'Totem Movie Player'.
<IlyaHaykinson> well, when they change it, we can change it. i will be the first to make that s//g
<godbyk> :)
<humphreybc> I'm submitting a bug now, i'll talk to mpt about it later
<IlyaHaykinson> 'k
<humphreybc> afaik not having a space breaks some sort of guideline
<daker> godbyk, ??!!!
<godbyk> daker: ?
<humphreybc> !!?!?!?!
<daker> <daker> godbyk, could pls pull the website to the server ?
<godbyk> daker: sure
<godbyk> daker: done
<daker> fuck 500
<humphreybc> daker: what changes have you made?
<humphreybc> lol fuck 500 huh
<humphreybc> this is a real thing
<humphreybc> question: Should stuff like desktop envrionment and internet service provider be title-case because they have acronyms like DE and ISP?
<humphreybc> so should it be Internet Service Provider or Desktop Environment?
<humphreybc> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/550667
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 550667 in network-manager "NetworkManager name (possibly) breaks GNOME HIG" [Undecided,New]
<godbyk> humphreybc: re: acronyms:
<godbyk> Here's the deal with acronyms: Just because the acronyms are all-caps, doesn't mean they are capitalized when spelled out.
<humphreybc> okay, so they're not?
<Red_HamsterX> Case-by-case.
<godbyk> Then the acronym is spelled out, use whatever case you would normally use.  So 'Internet' is still capitalized, but 'service provider' is not.
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> ISP = "Internet service provider"
<humphreybc> you changed internet to Internet right?
<godbyk> DE = "desktop environment"
<daker> godbyk, again pls
<godbyk> (unless it starts a sentence, in which case "Desktop environment")
<humphreybc> lol @ daker
<godbyk> daker: done
<IlyaHaykinson> er, actually internet should be lowercase now
<IlyaHaykinson> in line with gnome and ubuntu guidelines
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: seriously?
<IlyaHaykinson> nod
<humphreybc> :(
<IlyaHaykinson> lots of style guides have it that way now
<humphreybc> yay.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll never accept lower-casing it.
<godbyk> If it refers to "the Internet," it should be capitalized.   If it refers to "an internet," then it's lowercase.
<donri> "NetworkManager should become Network Manager (without the space)." â wait, what?
<donri> That ends up "NetworkManager". :)
<Red_HamsterX> Unless referring to a secondary internet.
<humphreybc> oh wait
<Red_HamsterX> Like what godbyk just said.
<IlyaHaykinson> there's no such thing as an internet, for practical purposes (despite the derivation of the name)
<IlyaHaykinson> it's like "the radio"
<humphreybc> donri: thanks for picking that up
<humphreybc> changed it :P
<godbyk> I know lots of style guides have started making it lowercase, but since there's a difference between the Internet and an internet in my house, I think the case matters.
<IlyaHaykinson> it used to be "the Radio" in the early days
<Red_HamsterX> Every noun used to be capitalized.
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: our use is in line with Ubuntu docs, at the very least, so i'd like to keep it.
<godbyk> I'll give you email, offline, and online.  But Internet stays. :)
<daker> godbyk, again again pls
<humphreybc> damnit, Ilya, hardly any of the stuff in chapter 3 is margin-note-ifiable
<IlyaHaykinson> personally i may have some yearning for an _I_nternet, for sure.
<godbyk> The Ubuntu docs style guide is half-baked, I think.
<IlyaHaykinson> well, sure. but the help docs are written to them.
<Red_HamsterX> I will not give you e-mail. But I'll suffer it for the sake of style.
<humphreybc> godbyk, just like everything they do... cough
<IlyaHaykinson> and i think the note is fair.
<godbyk> daker: done
<IlyaHaykinson> it's time for Internet to get downcased
<IlyaHaykinson> even if oldtimers like us don't want it.
<humphreybc> lol
<donri> humphreybc, where even does it say "NetworkManager"?
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Hmm.. I'll ponder it a bit longer.  (It's an easy change to make later.)
<godbyk> donri: In the chapter that talks about NetworkManager. :)
<IlyaHaykinson> donri: all over the section in chapter 3
<donri> But in Ubuntu.
<humphreybc> someone give me a nice definition of an IP address please
<IlyaHaykinson> [[IP address]
<IlyaHaykinson> [[IP address]]
<IlyaHaykinson> darn it, where is a wikibot when you need one
<godbyk> something I should mention: for those super-small screenshots -- ones that would fit in the sidenote area -- we can actually put the images in the sidenote area, if you like.
<Red_HamsterX> Just liken it to a phone number or a house's address.
<godbyk> (I just have to write a bit of code to do it.)
<humphreybc> godbyk that's a good idea
<IlyaHaykinson> An Internet Protocol (IP) address is a numerical label that is assigned to devices participating in a computer network that uses the Internet Protocol for communication between its nodes
<IlyaHaykinson> rephrase, to avoid having to credit WP
<humphreybc> Ilya, that's a great definition for a computer geek
<humphreybc> what's a device? what's a node?!
<humphreybc> a numerical label? lol
<nisshh> hey
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<nisshh> does anyone here know much about lxde?
<daker> godbyk, once again
<IlyaHaykinson> ok. my try then: "An IP (or Internet Protocol) address is a set of four numbers separated by periods. IP addresses provide a way for computers to communicate over the internet."
<IlyaHaykinson> brb, dinner
<humphreybc> how's this: "An Internet Protocol (IP) address is a numerical label assigned to devices on a computer network. It is the internet equivalent of phone numbers for your house and allows your computer to be uniquely identified so you can access the internet and share files with others."
<godbyk> daker: done
<humphreybc> nisshh: it's cool
<humphreybc> nisshh: go to omgubuntu.co.uk and search for "lubuntu"
<nisshh> humphreybc: i know, its extremely fast too
<donri> People still doesn't have IPv6?
<Red_HamsterX> It'll be a long time before most people will.
<humphreybc> donri: most of the world still use IPv4
<Red_HamsterX> ISPs will keep translating things into IPv4 and then there are residential routers to worry about...
<donri> Maybe throw in a "usually" before saying an IP is a set of four numbers.
<Red_HamsterX> I think it's safe to still with the implied 'always' for now.
<Red_HamsterX> Anyone with IPv6 doesn't need the manual.
<donri> I guess. But I get OCD itches telling lies. :)
<Red_HamsterX> I'd say the same thing if I didn't have experience writing for the clueless.
<Red_HamsterX> Say "usually" and someone will panic.
<donri> True.
<daker> godbyk, the last one pls
<godbyk> "internet" with a lowercase I just makes it look lazy. :-/
<godbyk> daker: promise? :)
<daker> promise :)
<godbyk> daker: nothing new. did you push yet?
<nisshh> humphreybc: all it came up with is a post about xubuntu
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual$ bzr push
<daker> Using saved push location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker> Pushed up to revision 634.
<humphreybc> nisshh: look harder
<godbyk> daker: ah, there it goes. done
 * humphreybc is struggling to find stuff in chapter 3 to convert to margin notes
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, humphreybc, http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/data/en.zip
<godbyk> launchpad was just being slow
<Red_HamsterX> Are those better?
<daker> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/about
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: on the 03-ubuntu-start-firefox.png..
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: better
<godbyk> does firefox not have borders on the sides of its window?
<Red_HamsterX> It's maximized.
<godbyk> can we size it to be maximized, but not maximized? :)
<godbyk> when it's printed, it looks like the elements are floating
<Red_HamsterX> Not programmatically.
<nisshh> all i want to know is if lubuntu uses GTK or not
<godbyk> toolbar at the top, status bar at the bottom, and the search box in the middle.
<Red_HamsterX> At least, not in time to meet the freeze.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: fair enough.
<humphreybc> HA! Network Manager has a space here, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Router
<godbyk> humphreybc: nice catch.
<godbyk> too bad it doesn't count. :)
<humphreybc> lol
<daker> godbyk, the last the last one pls pls pls pls
<daker> and i'll go to sleep
<Red_HamsterX> Hmm... I may actually be able to fake maximization in time...
<humphreybc> I can't find any wiki docs about connecting to a wireless network
 * Red_HamsterX hacks.
<godbyk> daker: done
<humphreybc> I can find some shit from 8.04 and 7.04
<humphreybc> long story short, the wiki docs suck
<nisshh> hehe
<godbyk> humphreybc: I couldn't find anything current there.
<daker> humphreybc, godbyk Red_HamsterX http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/
<daker> check our new urls
<nisshh> mind you they are not going to be completely current
<godbyk> daker: great!  much nicer urls
<Red_HamsterX> daker, this is nit-picking, but can you make thinks like '/?bugs' rewrite to '/bugs'?
<Red_HamsterX> Just to fix any external links.
<Red_HamsterX> things like*
<daker> actualy going to sleep
<godbyk> daker: we'll have to to work on the download page at some point, too.
<Red_HamsterX> Enjoy your rest, then. :)
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> poor daker
<daker> godbyk, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/download/10.04/fr/no
<daker> version : 10.04
<daker> lang : fr
<daker> optimzed : no
<Red_HamsterX> Good structure. Easy to script against.
<godbyk> daker: get some sleep! :)
<daker> godbyk, if you have any ideas i am here
<humphreybc> that's looking great daker, good work. We'll work on it some more tomorrow, you go and have some rest!
<daker> yeah its 04:51am
 * daker is going to hibernate in 10sec
<humphreybc> lol
<daker> see you
<nisshh> humphreybc: i cant find anything about lubuntu on omgubuntu
<nisshh> freakin nothing
<humphreybc> nisshh: there is stuff there, i'll find it for you
<daker> nisshh, http://api.postrank.com/log?url=http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/lubuntu-1004-beta-1-available-to.html
<humphreybc> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=omgubuntu+lubuntu
<humphreybc> first few hits
<nisshh> yea sorry lol, i just found it
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/lubuntu-1004-beta-1-available-to.html
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/01/lubuntu-alpha-2-gets-new-bootsplash.html
<nisshh> humphreybc: i assume since there are some gtk apps in there that lubuntu uses gtk?
<humphreybc> yeah i think it does
<nisshh> i installed the lxde package in lucid and its soooooo damn fast
<nisshh> way faster than gnome
<humphreybc> he
<humphreybc> heh*
<humphreybc> Gnome is really fast for me anyway
<humphreybc> I still have pretty decent specs even though my laptop is a couple of years old
<nisshh> yea, but you probably have something better than a p4 right?
<Red_HamsterX> Like what we used to expect from xfce and minimalist managers like Fluxbox?
<humphreybc> nisshh: Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz :)
<Red_HamsterX> Gnome's quite snappy on my P4.
<Red_HamsterX> My 900MHz Cel, too.
<nisshh> meh: i have celeron 3.06Ghz
<nisshh> yea gnome runs fine for me
<humphreybc> I've got a computer at home that's a P3 700MHz I think, in built graphics, 512MB SD Ram and it has Xubuntu on it and it's CRAP. Will have to do a fresh install of Lubuntu when I go home
<nisshh> but the app startup time has always been lame
<humphreybc> really? have you installed preload?
<nisshh> preload?
<humphreybc> look it up
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> it's cool
<humphreybc> just google "ubuntu preload"
<nisshh> just did
<nisshh> does it work well?
<humphreybc> sure does
<IlyaHaykinson> hm, has anyone tried to approach the ubuntumanual.org person and ask to trade domains?
<nisshh> hmmmm ill try it out then
<nisshh> i doubt they want to
<IlyaHaykinson> it's quite a bit out of date
<IlyaHaykinson> they may have dropped the project, mainly
<IlyaHaykinson> and may be willing to give it to us
<humphreybc> hm
 * humphreybc is bored of going through chapter 3
<IlyaHaykinson> i mean, it still has a Karmic countdown
<humphreybc> mm
 * nisshh passes out with shock because of how fast preload makes his apps load
<humphreybc> although ubuntu-manual is the name of our launchpad project name and team name and branch
<humphreybc> we'll see
<nisshh> firefox loaded in like 2 seconds!??!?!
<humphreybc> the project might take on an entirely different name after UDS
<humphreybc> nisshh: told ya
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> it gets better over time too as it works out what you use often
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> i like how it already knows about firefox
<humphreybc> chapter 3 takes up like a 1/3 of the manual
<nisshh> really? damn
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: i would bet you US$100 that there will be a bunch of people who don't care about the dash and type the other name in
<humphreybc> yeah i know
<humphreybc> but as I said, the entire project might be renamed at some point
<IlyaHaykinson> you think so? why?
<humphreybc> because we might not just be making manuals for ubuntu
<IlyaHaykinson> and instead for what?
<IlyaHaykinson> OO? gnome?
<humphreybc> we could end up making stuff for a heap of different variants of ubuntu
<humphreybc> as well as ubuntu
<IlyaHaykinson> sure, but those are still ubuntu
<humphreybc> yeah, but we'll see
<humphreybc> ;)
<IlyaHaykinson> i mean, just because Windows 2003 is technically "Microsoft Windows Server 2003 R2" or whatnot, doesn't mean people can't call it "Windows Help"
<nisshh> as i see it our focus will always be the ubuntu version
<humphreybc> Ilya I know what you mean
<nisshh> hey, ilya where have you been lately?
<IlyaHaykinson> nisshh: Las Vegas, then Oregon
<nisshh> havent seen you on here for ages
<IlyaHaykinson> and at work
<nisshh> ooh ncie
 * godbyk is trying to decide what to do about small-caps and acronyms.
<nisshh> nice
<godbyk> What do you guys think? Should they be small-caps or full uppercase?
<IlyaHaykinson> worst case, we can say "ubuntu" as in the philosophy
<IlyaHaykinson> acronyms: recommend full uppercase
<IlyaHaykinson> looks strange in our font, for some reason.
<humphreybc> chapter 4 is much more fun to edit, more mistakes
<IlyaHaykinson> also, there's a problem with 0s, in one place
<nisshh> well small-caps breaks the glossary links for some reason
<IlyaHaykinson> i.e. eth0
<IlyaHaykinson> looks like etho
<IlyaHaykinson> in the section on NetworkManager
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: old-style figures.
<IlyaHaykinson> but i don't know if that's fixable
<IlyaHaykinson> right.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: we could make that 0 a lining figure if we wanted.
<godbyk> but for the most part, old-style figures are nicer, I think.
<godbyk> easier to read.
<godbyk> and, hey, they look classy. :)
<IlyaHaykinson> i like the old style figures in all the other places
<IlyaHaykinson> just when it's in eth0 that it's screwy,
<IlyaHaykinson> can we fix just for that one place?
<godbyk> agreed.
<godbyk> I'll see what I can do there.
<godbyk> sure
<IlyaHaykinson> ok. er, two or three places. but same thing.
<IlyaHaykinson> thanks. not a giant deal if you can't fix.
<humphreybc> godbyk can fix all
<godbyk> I can make it all better.
<godbyk> ...given time...
<godbyk> ...and money...
<IlyaHaykinson> lol
<godbyk> :)
<IlyaHaykinson> speaking of money...
<IlyaHaykinson> where is ubuntu-manual.org hosted?
<IlyaHaykinson> and who pays for it?
<humphreybc> I bought the domain
<humphreybc> godbyk is hosting it on his unlimited bandwidth/space server with dreamhost
<IlyaHaykinson> ok. if need be, i can try emailing my acquaintance at dreamhost to see if i can score a free similar arrangement.
<godbyk> well, theoretically unlimited.  if we start causing problems, they may 'suggest' we get a private server. :)
<IlyaHaykinson> that we can get in the name of the manual.
<godbyk> it's on dreamhost right now.
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: free hosting huh?
<IlyaHaykinson> no guarantees, i said i'd send an email, tis all :)
<IlyaHaykinson> i just want to make sure that we have as many things as possible "owned" by the manual project, and not by individuals.
<IlyaHaykinson> until such time as when we create a foundation or some other legal entity
<IlyaHaykinson> to own things
<godbyk> Pet peeve: Using "e.g." or "i.e." in mid-sentence without commas and outside of parentheses.
<IlyaHaykinson> oh, yes, what is this \eg command?
<godbyk> oh, yeah.
<IlyaHaykinson> can we make it output ", for example " instead of "e.g."?
<godbyk> \eg prints "e.g." in italics with a hair space between the period and the g.
<Red_HamsterX> humphreybc, can you spare a few minutes to help me find something in a Python library?
<godbyk> yep, we can do that, too.
<godbyk> or kill the italics if people want to be all modern and stuff.
<IlyaHaykinson> though that may also cause translation problems.
<nisshh> red_hamsterx: i can help you
<IlyaHaykinson> my main issue is that ESL people may not know what e.g. means
<godbyk> thinking about potential translation problems makes my head hurt. :)
<Red_HamsterX> nisshh, sure. You'll need python-wnck installed.
<godbyk> I try to deal with them as they pop up and not think about it too much.
<nisshh> ok hang on
<Red_HamsterX> http://library.gnome.org/devel/libwnck/stable/WnckWindow.html#WnckWindowMoveResizeMask I'm trying to figure out where this stuff is defined.
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: if nisshh can do it that'd be good, i'm busy editing :P
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: that's fair enough, if godbyk left the project we wouldn't want all of our website and stuff to go down
<humphreybc> but godbyk won't leave the project, will he...
<humphreybc> :P
<nisshh> Red_HampsterX: yep got it already
<godbyk> lol
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: yes. nothing against godbyk, i'd do it for my own stuff if i was hosting it on my server.
<godbyk> yeah, at some point we should move the site to an independent account.  in case I get hit by a bus or something.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> we can take care of this sort of stuff after the first release
<IlyaHaykinson> yes, no need to do it now.
<godbyk> yep
<godbyk> I'll stay inside until then. ;-)
<nisshh> godbyk: hehe
<humphreybc> haha
<IlyaHaykinson> watch out for the "or something"
<IlyaHaykinson> as well
<Red_HamsterX> Random acts of Microsoft?
<godbyk> actually, the website is primarily under humphreybc's control, since he owns the domain name. he can point it at different dns servers and reroute it to wherever he likes. the code is in the bzr repository, so no worries there.
<Red_HamsterX> Exactly.
<nisshh> very true
<Red_HamsterX> He's the one we need to worry about.
<humphreybc> haha
 * humphreybc is generally a safe person
<nisshh> humphreybc: we are watching you!
 * humphreybc isn't planning on defecting to the docs team
<IlyaHaykinson> i think for that we can wait till we have a foundation.
<IlyaHaykinson> or however we handle this
<Red_HamsterX> I think I'm still part of the docs team.
<humphreybc> lol
<IlyaHaykinson> if it comes to it, incorporation is cheap.
<nisshh> unless canonical sponsors us or something
<nisshh> endorses or whatever
<Red_HamsterX> I wouldn't be surprised if my name's still in someone's database after five years.
<humphreybc> well, we'll see what happens at UDS. Canonical might give us some server space.
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: can you fix the spelling of my last name in the credits?
<nisshh> ooh yea
 * humphreybc can smell yummy food coming from the kitchen, is making me hungry
<IlyaHaykinson> i fixed the credits chapter, but not the website
<humphreybc> sure
<IlyaHaykinson> thx
<humphreybc> I have to go through and finalize all the credits around RC
<humphreybc> at the moment they're mainly just placeholders
<IlyaHaykinson> okie dok
<humphreybc> so don't worry too much yet
<nisshh> Red_HampsterX: still need my help with that python
<Red_HamsterX> nisshh, yes, please.
<humphreybc> okay this smells really nice, i'm off to cook my own dinner now
<Red_HamsterX> It's just a lot of using 'dir()' to dig for those constants.
<IlyaHaykinson> oh, i always worry, with my name. you can't imagine how often people get it wrong -- especially in pronunciation
<nisshh> can you show your script?
<nisshh> and explain what you want to do
<Red_HamsterX> nisshh, there's nothing to show.
<nisshh> oh hhee
<Red_HamsterX> Just import wnck and start spelunking to look for those constants.
<Red_HamsterX> They have to be somewhere.
<Red_HamsterX> I need them so I can fax maximization.
<Red_HamsterX> fake*
<Red_HamsterX> So maximized windows will look a bit better in the document.
<Red_HamsterX> Though I guess I could just pass '7' as an argument, if it comes to it.
<Red_HamsterX> Or 9.
<Red_HamsterX> Or whatyever the mask is.
<Red_HamsterX> ...15
<Red_HamsterX> I need to learn to stop failing at Binary.
<Red_HamsterX> binary*
<nisshh> meh
<nisshh> im not very good with python yet
<nisshh> still a noob
<Red_HamsterX> Meh. It's fine.
<Red_HamsterX> import wnck
<Red_HamsterX> dir(wnck)
<Red_HamsterX> Find something that looks interesting
<nisshh> ok
<Red_HamsterX> dir(wnck.that_thing)
<Red_HamsterX> Repeat until you find it or give up.
<Red_HamsterX> It doesn't look like it's going to work the way I'd hoped anyway...
<Red_HamsterX> Or not.
<nisshh> so this is for quickshot?
<Red_HamsterX> It works with Totem.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
<nisshh> ok
<Red_HamsterX> I'm trying to make windows take up the whole screen without actually maximizing them.
<Red_HamsterX> So they'll still have a border for the screencaps.
<nisshh> ah i think i know
<Red_HamsterX> It looks like Firefox forks another process, though, so I have no reliable way to track which windows it owns.
<Red_HamsterX> It works when I hardcode 15, so don't worry too much if you can't find it.
<nisshh> you want to just take a screenshot of that one window? instead of the whole desktop?
<Red_HamsterX> That's how it works now.
<Red_HamsterX> Quickshot actually works. :)
<nisshh> right
<Red_HamsterX> I'm just trying to get borders... LEmme grab an example.
<nisshh> ok
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/data/03-ubuntu-start-firefox@en@1269836060.png
<Red_HamsterX> That's Firefox, maximized.
<Red_HamsterX> Note the lack of borders on the sides.
<Red_HamsterX> By telling the window manager exactly what dimensions it should have, we can get the window to be exactly that big, without losing the borders.
<nisshh> right
<Red_HamsterX> And I think I know how to solve the tracking issue...
<nisshh> well there is a shortcut key in ubuntu to just take a screenshot of that one window
<Red_HamsterX> Exception case: pidof
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, yes, but we've got that working already.
<nisshh> so if you find the code for that then your right
<Red_HamsterX> Window-based screencaps work fine.
<nisshh> right
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/data/03-firefox-preferences@en@1269837322.png
<nisshh> its just the maximized ones
<Red_HamsterX> Well... No.
<Red_HamsterX> The problem is that maximizing kills the borders.
<Red_HamsterX> When they appear in the document, they seem to be floating.
<Red_HamsterX> 'Cause it's white on white.
<nisshh> ah right
<nisshh> why not use latex to add a border or something
<nisshh> like 1px black or something
<Red_HamsterX> Not all windows need it, so it looks ugly.
<Red_HamsterX> Unless we tag the specific images...
<nisshh> yea, or you can just take no screenshots of maximized apps
<Red_HamsterX> That causes problems of its own, unfortunately.
<nisshh> how so?
<Red_HamsterX> Since we're running at 1024x768.
<Red_HamsterX> So things would be cramped in some cases.
<Red_HamsterX> We also need consistency across all languages.
<nisshh> what if its in windowed mode but almost the same size as max?
<nisshh> yea
<Red_HamsterX> That's what the ENUMs I've asked you to find will do.
<nisshh> ENUM?
<Red_HamsterX> (Which, as mentioned, I can hack around by hardcoding 15)
<Red_HamsterX> Enumeration.
<nisshh> right
<Red_HamsterX> Integer constants with symbolic names, usually.
<Red_HamsterX> In this case, 1, 2, 4, 8
<Red_HamsterX> Added together, they make 15.
<nisshh> right
<Red_HamsterX> But they could change, so having the names would be nice.
<nisshh> dir(wnck.WindowType)
<nisshh> under there is __enum_values__
<Red_HamsterX> I don't see--
<Red_HamsterX> Hmm...
<Red_HamsterX> No, that;s a list of types.
<Red_HamsterX> Good eye, though.
<nisshh> right lol
<nisshh> what exactly am i looking for?
<Red_HamsterX> Type it without the dir() and you can see what's inside.
<Red_HamsterX> http://library.gnome.org/devel/libwnck/stable/WnckWindow.html#WnckWindowMoveResizeMask
<Red_HamsterX> Any of those names.
<Red_HamsterX> WINDOW_CHANGE_X
<Red_HamsterX> I don't know why they don't seem to be there.
<Red_HamsterX> It's possible that the maintainers forgot to add them to the Python bindings altogether.
<Red_HamsterX> So you may be looking for nothing.
<nisshh> yea
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I foxed your eth0 stuff.
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: WOOT! thanks
<nisshh> godbyk: have you decided about the small-caps?
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: The quick workaround is to typeset the 0 in math mode, so just surround it by $:  eth$0$.
<nisshh> it really needs to be one or the other
<godbyk> I haven't decided yet.
<godbyk> I'm reading through the manual right now and will keep an out for them to see how they look.
<godbyk> Having acronyms littering the text so heavily makes it a pain to read.
<godbyk> Generally small caps helps there.
<godbyk> But they bring problems, too.
<godbyk> Like plural acronyms.  Sometimes the lowercase 's' adjacent to the small caps doesn't work so well.
<godbyk> Sometimes the use of small caps leads to inconsistencies, too.
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: thank you for the quick fix.
<godbyk> I'm also going to center the screenshots and see how that looks now.
<godbyk> the right-align bit isn't working so well for me.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: no problem. don't abuse it, or I'll have to slap you around! :)
<IlyaHaykinson> argh.
<IlyaHaykinson> yes sir
<godbyk> gah.. must fix ugly, ugly spacing around warning/advanced icons.
<godbyk> but I think I'll hold off on that 'til after the writing freeze.
<godbyk> (as it won't affect the translators)
<godbyk> we really need to work on the index at some point, too.
<godbyk> would you have any time this week to help with that, IlyaHaykinson?
<godbyk> I think we may be able to do that after the writing freeze as it won't (directly) impact the translations.
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: not sure yet. you mean mainly tagging indexable items, to ensure that they appear in the index?
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: yeah.
<IlyaHaykinson> what tags do we have besides the two application ones?
<godbyk> we need to establish some guidelines as to what should be indexed and how.
<IlyaHaykinson> good point.
<godbyk> (e.g., head words should be nouns or noun phrases, when do we cross-ref [see, see also], etc.)
<godbyk> right now that's about it, I think.
<IlyaHaykinson> well, what else would you expect in an index?
<nisshh> godbyk: where did you put those TODO items for the glossary?
<nisshh> you said you were adding some yesterday
<godbyk> nisshh: right after the table of contents, there's a list of TODOs.  I made the glossary ones a different color.
<nisshh> ok thanks
<godbyk> I think I might write a \variable{} command (or similar) to format placeholder text.
<godbyk> like "Editing <i>connection name</i>" would be "Editing \variable{connection name}" and format nicely.
<godbyk> that way all the placeholder text is the same format.
<godbyk> right now it's kinda all over the place.
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: good idea
<IlyaHaykinson> for the index, we probably need something like \term{}
<IlyaHaykinson> and maybe \term[category]{}
<nisshh> godbyk: where is the table of contents in the branch?
<IlyaHaykinson> so our current \application{} would be equivalent to \term[applications]{}
<godbyk> nisshh: I mean if you look at the PDF, there's a list in the PDF after the toc.
<nisshh> oh, crap silly me
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: The index commands are relatively simple, but the look scary.
<nisshh> yea found it now
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: The simplest case, to add an item to the index it: \index{index entry name}
<godbyk> But you can also index something as a subentry.
<IlyaHaykinson> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Indexing#Sophisticated_Indexing
<IlyaHaykinson> i see
<godbyk> And you can have begin/end for an index item.. to encompass, say, a section that deals with NetworkManager.  Then it'll automatically say, "NetworkManager 45--52"
<godbyk> yeah
<godbyk> what should this variable/placeholder command be named?
<IlyaHaykinson> \sampletext{}?
<IlyaHaykinson> \forexample{}?
 * godbyk still needs to finalize the formatting of all these things so he can write the nomenclature section.
<IlyaHaykinson> \userspecific{}?
<IlyaHaykinson> \situational{}?
<godbyk> I may be able to call it \variable. Let me look.
<nisshh> i just noticed the amount of TODO's for my chapter, do you guys want me to fix them or should i leave it to the three supereditors?
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/get_latest.php?language=en&name=03-ubuntu-start-firefox
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Perfect!
<Red_HamsterX> I think I've worked out all applicalbe bugs.
<Red_HamsterX> Except for one...
<Red_HamsterX> I need to reduce height yb one pixel.
<Red_HamsterX> But that's trivial
<artnay> btw, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/26/gothic_not_arial_do_it_for_gaia/
 * IlyaHaykinson going offline now; a bit more work then sleep. gnite all!
<Red_HamsterX> Quickshot reference screencaps and descriptions updated. EtherPad updated. Me asleep.
<Red_HamsterX> http://kotaku.com/5504123/ps3-loses-linux-support My PPC build platform! No!
 * Red_HamsterX cries.
<humphreybc> that's a bit evil of SOny
<humphreybc> Sony*
<Red_HamsterX> Very.
<Red_HamsterX> I rely on that thing.
<Red_HamsterX> Heck, it's one of the reasons I bought it.
<humphreybc> maybe just don't firmware upgrade it?
<Red_HamsterX> Then I wouldn't be able to play anything that comes out this summer...
<Red_HamsterX> I'll need to find a new, cheap PPC system...
<humphreybc> :(
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe an old iMac.
<humphreybc> with 8 cores
<humphreybc> :P
<Red_HamsterX> Seven.
<Red_HamsterX> One of which is locked to prevent access to the rest of the system.
<humphreybc> i always get that wrong
 * Red_HamsterX wants RSX access. :(
<humphreybc> what has the CPU got to do with file system access?
<Red_HamsterX> It locks everything.
<Red_HamsterX> Primarily focused on hardware.
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> chapter 4 is riddled with errors
<humphreybc> godbyk how's that nomenclature coming along?
<godbyk> Waiting to settle on some of the formatting.
<humphreybc> kk
<godbyk> I think we have too much bold text in our manual.
<humphreybc> i concur
<godbyk> I'm going to see what some other books do.
<humphreybc> this is just one page of chapter 4
<humphreybc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4472824658/sizes/o/
<godbyk> that's how the pages from the first couple chapters looked when I was doing it on paper.
<humphreybc> do you guys spell it grayscale or greyscale in the US?
<godbyk> grayscale.
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> (I personally prefer grey to gray, but I'm outvoted on this continent.)
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> I've seen a fiew -ise scattered about and they are usually -ize here, too.
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> who wrote chapter 4??
<godbyk> not it!
<godbyk> wow.. looking at the author credits for chapter 4, I'm apparently the only person who *hasn't* written it!
<humphreybc> er, yeah
<humphreybc> it's a mess
<humphreybc> chap 4 is gonna be rockin the margin notes when i'm done
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<humphreybc> hey Luke
<ubuntujenkins> hey ben how are we doing?
<humphreybc> not too bad.. just editing chapter 4. about a zillion errors. http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4472824658/sizes/o/
<ubuntujenkins> nice not too many there :P
<humphreybc> O.o
<humphreybc> wtf
<humphreybc> what the hell
<humphreybc> there is a section in chapter 4 called "USB drives"
<humphreybc> it talks about Burning CDs and DVDs
<humphreybc> ?
<humphreybc> ohh
<humphreybc> wat
<humphreybc> wait*
<humphreybc> I see, that whole section is missing... it's just the header
<humphreybc> sigh
<ubuntujenkins> talking of missing have you heard from mattgriffin?
<humphreybc> yeah, he's given us our stuff
<humphreybc> it's in the manual :)
<ubuntujenkins> ubuntu one/
<ubuntujenkins> ?
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> I think that's coming
<humphreybc> I'll get in touch with him soon
<ubuntujenkins> its been coming for two months, I need to know what screenshots he would like then i can see if they are nessicary
<ubuntujenkins> I have chased him the other day not seen him since
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> he's not on IRC at the moment
<humphreybc> but next time he's on I'll grab him
<ubuntujenkins> thank you
<godbyk> yay! manualbot's here!
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> he's quite unreliable
<humphreybc> godbyk, what is the syntax for menus?
<humphreybc> you know, with the little arrow
<godbyk> \menu{Blah\then Blah}
<humphreybc> thanks
<godbyk> we should teach manualbot that sort of thing. :)
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: whats broken with the change resolution stuff?
<humphreybc> hey mpt
<humphreybc> godbyk, mpt is wondering why we are mentioning NetworkManager at all
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: I think i have fixed it
<jaminday> humphreybc: yeah i wondered that too - it's pretty technical for a beginner!
<ubuntujenkins> but they have to be able to get onto the internet
<godbyk> I'm not sure. I haven't actually read that chapter yet.
<godbyk> Should we be mentioning something else instead? Or just assume that NetworkManager will perform its magic successfully and not mention it at all?
<jaminday> yeah - for most people (with wired connection) it should just work. If it doesn't, won't they probably need more assistance than what we are providing?
<humphreybc> godbyk, the section is quite large
<humphreybc> we can't just cut it
<mpt> godbyk, jaminday, it's not that it's technical, it's that you don't need to name it specifically. It's just the network menu in Ubuntu.
<jaminday> Ah ok - gotcha
<humphreybc> We need to refer to it and mention the name so when people look for more help online they'll be able to type something in the search
<godbyk> mpt: Ah, I see what you're saying.
<humphreybc> typing "NetworkManager" into google or UF forums will bring back more relevant hits than typing "Ubuntu networking"
<mpt> Just like you don't need to refer to "gnome-panel" by name anywhere (at least, I hope you don't).
<humphreybc> in theory, anyway
<godbyk> mpt: Is there a list of naming conventions for those elements?
<godbyk> We had a question the other day as to what to call the fast-user-switching-applet (or shutdown applet or whatever it is now).
<mpt> That's the session menu <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SessionMenu>
<humphreybc> mpt, no, but we call them "Panels"
<mpt> right
<godbyk> humphreybc: It would be better to direct our readers straight to the good sources of information if they need help troubleshooting or want more info instead of having them Google things.
<jaminday> godbyk: I have been calling it the Session Indicator applet but session menu sounds much friendlier
<humphreybc> godbyk, yeah I know, that would be ideal but unsurprisingly the docs on networking/connecting to wireless date back to 7.04
<godbyk> I like 'session menu'.  Thanks!  Is there a list of terms anywhere?
<jaminday> godbyk: is there a quick way to do a find-replace to change all mentions of 'Session Indicator applet' to 'session menu'
<godbyk> jaminday: not a guaranteed way.  your best bet is to grep and replace manually.
<jaminday> ok. I might get Rudi onto it.
<godbyk> I'll make a note for our nascent style guide.
<jaminday> On a related note, i think we need some consensus on when to capitalize names of elements. E.g. should it be 'session menu' or 'Session Menu'. There are heaps of inconsistencies around this issue.
<jaminday> And how often should the \application or \button commands be used - every time it's mentioned or just the first?
<jaminday> etc
<godbyk> \application and \button should be used each time you refer to the application or button.
<godbyk> They're designed to provide some semantic formatting (that I can adjust on a whim in a couple days).
<jaminday> ok that's good to know
<jaminday> I might get Rudi to have a look at that as well then - make sure they are consistent across all chapters
<jaminday> godbyk: should we be using \window as well?
 * godbyk feels sorry for Rudi!
<godbyk> jaminday: Yes, for the window titles/captions.
<jaminday> hehe - he offered! Big mistake...
<jaminday> godbyk: ok great. Any others? We've got \application \button \window \menu
<godbyk> If there are UI elements I'm missing names for, let me know and I'll add a command.
<jaminday> \textfield?
<godbyk> jaminday: if you look in the Help/godbyk/latex-handout/ dir, you can build that pdf (just run make from that dir), and see chapter 3 for a list.
<jaminday> godbyk: ah ok fantastic - excuse my ignorance but i didn't know that existed
<godbyk> no problem. that's why I mentioned it. :)
<godbyk> (trying to get the word out.)
<jaminday> yeah that will be a big help
<godbyk> that would be the aforementioned nascent style guide.
<jaminday> right
<jaminday> godbyk: install-pkgs.sh keeps telling me that 'executable file xindy...not found'
<godbyk> jaminday: what does 'which xindy' return?
<jaminday> nothing... do i need something in front?
<godbyk> nope
<jaminday> yeah doesn't return any output
<godbyk> sounds like you don't have xindy installed. the install-pkgs.sh script should try to install it for you.
<jaminday> yeah - it does, then says 'Required Ubuntu packages are already installed. Done! You should now be able to compile the Ubuntu manual!'
<jaminday> but then run install-pkgs again and it still can't find it
 * ubuntujenkins updating a ppa is confusing
<jaminday> godbyk: perhaps it's not an issue?
<godbyk> jaminday: can you email the install-pkgs.log file to me at kevin@ubuntu-manual.org?
<godbyk> I'll take a look at it.
<godbyk> in the meantime, you can install xindy manually: sudo tlmgr install xindy
<jaminday> godbyk: ok i'll do that. I am getting lots of errors running make in the Help dir so wondering if that's why.
<godbyk> I just recompiled it, and it worked okay for me, so I assume the .tex file is fine.
<jaminday> godbyk: ok email sent
<jaminday> i'll try install xindy manually
<jaminday> godbyk: i tried sudo tlmgr install xindy but getting same problem when i run ./install-pkgs.sh
<godbyk> jaminday: I think it hasn't created the symlink to xindy, so install-pkgs.sh can't find it.
<godbyk> We can fix that, though.
<godbyk> Run 'sudo apt-get install perl-tk'
<godbyk> Then 'sudo tlmgr --gui'
<jaminday> ok - installing perl-tk now...
<godbyk> From the Actions menu, choose 'Handle symlinks in system dirs'
<godbyk> In the dialog that appears, click the 'Update symbolic links' button, then OK.
<godbyk> Finally, you can exit the tlmgr program and run the install-pkgs.sh script again.
<jaminday> ooh (not so) pretty GUI!
<godbyk> Let me know if you hit any snags.
<godbyk> Heh.. yeah, gotta love that Tk widget set!
 * jaminday is following godbyk's instructions like a muffin recipe
<humphreybc> lol
 * humphreybc likes muffins
 * jaminday thinks godbyk is a freakin' genuis
<jaminday> *genius
<jaminday> hehe
<godbyk> I'm renowned for my easy-to-follow, step-by-step instructions. :-)
 * ubuntujenkins has banana muffins here
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> muffins all round for everyone!
<jaminday> godbyk: hmm - still getting errors compiling latex-handout
<jaminday> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/716997/latex-handout.log
<jaminday> although you did fix my xindy problem!
<godbyk> jaminday: ah, I'm using a few packages there that aren't installed by install-pkgs.sh, apparently.
<godbyk> jaminday: sudo tlmgr install lipsum
<godbyk> (it's not used; I'll fix the tex file soon)
<godbyk> also: sudo tlmgr install hyphenat
<godbyk> then see if it still complains.
<jaminday> ok one sec
<jaminday> godbyk: ok we are getting closer - just one error this time. New log file...
<jaminday> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/716997/latex-handout.log
<godbyk> jaminday: that's weird.
<godbyk> hold on
<jaminday> no worries
<jaminday> i'm making you earn your UMP salary tonight!
<godbyk> Ha!
<godbyk> What does 'kpsewhich tufte-common.def' return?
<jaminday> godbyk: sorry - i'm back
<godbyk> jaminday: no worries.
<jaminday> /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf-dist/tex/latex/tufte-latex/tufte-common.def
<godbyk> aha.
<godbyk> that's probably the problem then.
<godbyk> It's using an older version of that file than what I'm using.
<jaminday> ah ok
<godbyk> one sec and I'll have that fixed for ya.
<jaminday> great
<godbyk> jaminday: okay, I've added symlinks. if you bzr pull and run make again, that should (hopefully) fix it.
<jaminday> ok, i'm going in...
<godbyk> k
<jaminday> godbyk: ok, make ran smoothly that time
<godbyk> awesome.
<godbyk> good to hear!
<godbyk> (I was running out of ideas. :-))
<jaminday> fantastic - thanks for the help
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> i knew you could do it!
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> so *anyway*.. in there, you'll find a list of the GUI-related commands.
<jaminday> great - i'll check it out
<meho_r> Hi all. godbyk, humphreybc, would you accept reviewed .pdf file with highlights and comments or only bug reports count?
<godbyk> meho_r: Sure!
<godbyk> at this point we'll take about anything. :)
<humphreybc> ;P
<godbyk> How big is the marked-up PDF?
<meho_r> Don't think it'll be much bigger
<meho_r> And I don't have it now :)
<godbyk> Ah, okay.
<meho_r> Will take a look in these two days to search for anything
<meho_r> and I'll upload it on Dropbox or somewhere and give you the link.
<godbyk> If you'd like you can email the PDF (when you've finished marking it) to kevin, benjamin, or jamin @ubuntu-manual.org and we can incorporate your suggestions.
<godbyk> (I don't want you to send it to the mailing list and spam the subscribers with a multi-megabyte attachment.) :-)
<meho_r> hehe, no problem.
<godbyk> Or if you can't email the PDF for some reason, let me know and we'll find another way to receive it.
<godbyk> Yeah, dropbox will work great, too.
<meho_r> Deadline is 31.03?
<meho_r> What after that?
<jaminday> meho_r: the world explodes
<godbyk> meho_r: Then the translators take over and do their thing.
<jaminday> ;-)
<meho_r> lol :D
<meho_r> OK. I'll try to finish before the big bang :D
<godbyk> good idea.
<godbyk> you can give it to us piecemeal, too.
<godbyk> just upload a fresh copy every few pages or after each chapter or something.
<meho_r> Yeah, per chapter maybe
<fenre> so you guys used 3-4 months to write this thing, and now we get to rewrite it in 2 weeks? Or how long do we have? :P
<godbyk> fenre: Heh.. something like that!
<fenre> nice :)
<godbyk> The content freeze was to be a couple weeks ago.
<godbyk> Then we'd have a couple weeks to edit.
<godbyk> And then we'd have the writing freeze so that the translators could get caught up.
<godbyk> But I think some new content has been leaking in post-content freeze.
<meho_r> btw, should I get .pdf from ubuntu-manual.org or maybe you have some more recent version you want me to work on?
<meho_r> this one is from 27.
<fenre> good thing we have easter vacation
<godbyk> meho_r: give me a couple minutes and I'll post the latest pdf to the website for ya.
<jaminday> meho_r: I think we have been uploading the latest revision to ubuntu-manual.org once per day
<meho_r> godbyk, OK, just ping me when you're done :)
<godbyk> meho_r: Okay, latest revision, just for you!  http://ubuntu-manual.org/ubuntu-manual-draft.pdf
<meho_r> godbyk, OK, thanks. See you guys tonight
<godbyk> meho_r: have fun!
<meho_r> ;)
<humphreybc> hi everyone! could you'll do me a favour and go here, vote the LN team up :)
<humphreybc> http://www.makeitso.online-comms.com.au/ch/25233/2dw3zwz/1134764/a74c5y8jg.html
<artnay> hey, what about the title on the first page? currently, when translated, the text size is too large to fit on a page
<godbyk> artnay: Don't fret about that. The title page is temporary and I'll make sure the text fits in the end.
<artnay> will the title be automatically resized?
<godbyk> It will be resized or wrapped.
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: SUCCESS!
<humphreybc> oh wait
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: with what?
<humphreybc> the PPA build?
<humphreybc> I got an email
<ubuntujenkins> if you mean the ppa the build failed
<humphreybc> :(
<godbyk> lol
<ubuntujenkins> not lol
<ubuntujenkins> trying again
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: humphreybc screwed up. he meant the opposite of success.  what was it again?  oh, yeah: FAILURE!
<godbyk> :-)
<humphreybc> hey daker's back and working on the site
<humphreybc> yay
<ubuntujenkins> I have a feeling the latest upload will be rejected
<daker> humphreybc, hi ;)
<humphreybc> hey daker!
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<daker> godbyk, turned on the sync pls
<daker> :)
<ubuntujenkins> daker can you do me a couple of buttons for the wiki please
<humphreybc> haha, and it starts again :P
<godbyk> daker: synced.
<daker> humphreybc, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved
<godbyk> daker: I'm going to sleep soon, but I set the website to sync every 10 minutes instead of every 30 minutes, since you're working on it right now.
<daker> oki
<daker> thanks a lot
<jaminday> daker: you want info on spelling mistakes etc now or leave that stuff till later?
<daker> if you could now jaminday
<humphreybc> looking good daker
<daker> jaminday, its CC from th wiki :)
<jaminday> ah ok
<daker> Copy paste
<jaminday> only one i just saw - bryan behrenhausen (on contributors page) is spelt brayn
 * ubuntujenkins the build failed again
<godbyk> Don't forget to fix Ilya's name if you haven't already. He asked about it earlier.
<humphreybc> Yeah
<humphreybc> should be "Ilya Haykinson"
<humphreybc> I think
<jaminday> ah yes that's true too
<daker> jaminday, like that "Bryan Behrenhausen" ?
<godbyk> Okay, guys. I'm off to bed.
<jaminday> daker: yep
<jaminday> godbyk: he does sleep!
<daker> that's your name ?
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> jaminday: Shh!
<jaminday> daker: nope not me, i'm Jamin Day
<humphreybc> daker: that's Bryan's name
<daker> jaminday, ah sorry
<jaminday> Well if godbyk is going, I should head off too before this whole room falls apart
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> i should get some sleep too
<jaminday> daker: no problem!
<daker> humphreybc, any other  spelling mistakes on the contributors page ?
<jaminday> well, night all and talk soon!
<humphreybc> daker, i don't think so
<humphreybc> the list of names will change though
<daker> kk
 * dutchie pokes godbyk with "bzr commit --fixes"
<humphreybc> dutchie: you're still alive
<godbyk-android2> du
<humphreybc> why aren't you helping us edit? :P
<godbyk-android2> gah
<dutchie> I'm busy :P
<dutchie> though I am now on holiday
<humphreybc> ..
<ubuntujenkins> daker: any chance of some buttons for the wiki?
<humphreybc> dutchie: get to work then slacker
<humphreybc> :P
<godbyk-android2> dutchie: what about bzr?
<dutchie> the --fixes option
<daker> ubuntujenkins, what ?
<dutchie> if you use that when you commit, LP automatically closes the bug
<ubuntujenkins> "Get Quickshot" "File A Bug" "About Quickshot" would be nice please
<godbyk-android2> Ah, cool. I'll have to take a look at that.
<humphreybc> ha!
<humphreybc> we have more bzr revisions than ubuntu-docs
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<humphreybc> just for lucid though
<ubuntujenkins> still thats good
<humphreybc> they're on 498
<daker> ubuntujenkins, ??!!!
<humphreybc> we're up to like 600 and something
<ubuntujenkins> daker "Get Quickshot" "File A Bug" "About Quickshot" would be nice please
<daker> buttons ?
<daker> yeah sure
<ubuntujenkins> sorry like the ones on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/contributions
<humphreybc> daker: how do you make them, out of interest?
<daker> css
<humphreybc> you're so hardcore
<humphreybc> can you make them light up when you roll over them?
<daker> humphreybc, http://papermashup.com/pretty-css3-buttons/
<daker> with webkit effects http://www.zurb.com/playground/radioactive-buttons
<daker> the same
<humphreybc> oh neat
<ubuntujenkins> thanks daker if you can send them to luke@ubuntu-manual.org please
<daker> sure ubuntujenkins
<humphreybc> daker: you should make them glow when you roll over them or maybe just get brighter
<daker> humphreybc, i'll do
<humphreybc> :D
<humphreybc> you're a legend daker
<humphreybc> I've never had such a willing web developer! haha
<daker> i don't have dog :p
<humphreybc> btw, Ivanka from the design team told me today that it worked in her blackberry browser
<humphreybc> and it works in my android browser
<daker> GREAT
<daker> the slideshow too ?
<humphreybc> sort of, the phone couldn't handle it too well and it was a bit laggy
<humphreybc> but it did work
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> where can i see the slide show?
<daker> test.ubuntu-manual.org
<daker> the images on the page will slide
<ubuntujenkins> nice i like it,
<daker> lol
<daker> humphreybc, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480249/
<daker> but i don't have a dog
<daker> humphreybc, Authors and Editors page are the same
<daker> ?
<humphreybc> sorry
<humphreybc> yes they are
<humphreybc> they should point to the same page :)
<daker> ok
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: the ppa works now
<humphreybc> yay!
<humphreybc> amd64 too?
<daker> ubuntujenkins, where ?
<ubuntujenkins> well it installs on amd64 using synaptic it only produces a all.deb
<ubuntujenkins> daker https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-daily
<ubuntujenkins> it is the daily ppa the only one we have at the moment
<humphreybc> oh neat :D
<ubuntujenkins> a release ppa will be done
<humphreybc> :)
<jbicha> howdy
<jbicha> so, I'm looking at page 15 and am wondering why the screenshots are so fuzzy, the text isn't very readable
<humphreybc> hi jbicha
<humphreybc> what viewer are you using?
<jbicha> evince
<humphreybc> the text shouldn't be fuzzy
<humphreybc> but the screenshots might be sort of jagged, that's evinces fault
<humphreybc> are you on karmic? you can try installing acroread
<jbicha> I'm on lucid, let me try okular
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> acroread isn't pacakged for lucid yet :(
<jbicha> I've not used acroread on Linux in years :-)
<jbicha> 2 years maybe
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> anyway, the text/images aren't blurry when printed
<humphreybc> and you're the first person to report the text being blurry
<humphreybc> the images in evince we've known about for ages
<jbicha> when I said text, I meant text in the screenshot
<jbicha> yeah, it looks better in okular but since evince is default...
<jbicha> it's kinda too bad
<jbicha> on another topic, I'm happy that the suggestions I put in the little Google Docs form thing got included
<jbicha> it's magical
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> which one was that?
<humphreybc> (yeah we're cool like that btw)
<jbicha> aptitude instead of apt-get and if you're going to mention sudo, mention gksu too
<humphreybc> ah yes
<humphreybc> I changed the aptitude one myself actually
<humphreybc> bad news though, it might be going back to apt-get. The Ubuntu and GNOME style guides recommend apt-get, Debian recommends aptitude. Sigh.
<jbicha> haha
<humphreybc> because we're an Ubuntu manual we'll probably have to follow the ubuntu style guide
<humphreybc> but we'll see
<humphreybc> I personally use both... whatever I end up typing
<humphreybc> aptitude resolves dependencies nicer and removes stuff better...
<humphreybc> I think we reported a bug in evince for the crappy screenshots
<jbicha> I've been using Ubuntu since 2006 so I mostly learned aptitude instead of apt-get
<humphreybc> true
<humphreybc> might see if I can get an evince dev to fix it before final so our manual looks pretty in Ubuntu
<ubuntujenkins> is there a but we can +1 to?
<ubuntujenkins> *bug
<humphreybc> not sure
<humphreybc> maybes one of these
<humphreybc> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/poppler/+bug/26118
<humphreybc> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/poppler/+bug/248355
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 26118 in poppler "Bad rendering (hinting) in Evince and Xpdf" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 248355 in poppler "Evince doesn't anti-alias graphics" [Low,Fix committed]
<humphreybc> looks like it might be fixed in Lucid
<humphreybc> looking at the screenshots of 248355 and I think it is the same as ours
<ubuntujenkins> lets hope its fixed
<jbicha> poppler is still .12.4 in lucid, so we're still waiting for the package to be uploaded
<humphreybc> oh neat
<humphreybc> so it might be fixed soon
<jbicha> well, it doesn't look like debian or ubuntu have packaged it yet
<humphreybc> +1 yourself to the second bug
<humphreybc> hopefully it'll be packaged soon
 * humphreybc commented on the bug
<jbicha> .13.2 is "unstable" upstream, it might take some convincing for Lucid to include it instead of the stable release
<jbicha> http://poppler.freedesktop.org/
 * humphreybc is going to harness the power of 800 facebook fans to mark it as affecting me
<humphreybc> I'll talk to Jorge
<humphreybc> someone remind me
<humphreybc> hey jbicha you there?
<jbicha> yes
<humphreybc> could you do me a huge favour
<humphreybc> and test if that fix on bug 248335 fixes the issue?
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 248335 in ubuntu "WG111T usb Dongle not functional in hardy (dup-of: 147203)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248335
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 147203 in ubuntu "WG111T not working on Hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147203
<humphreybc> oops
<humphreybc> not that one
<humphreybc> bug 248355
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 248355 in poppler "Evince doesn't anti-alias graphics" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248355
<humphreybc> I'm just talking to Jorge now about getting it in Lucid
<jbicha> what do you mean test?
<jbicha> install the upstream from git?
<humphreybc> if you could
<humphreybc> yea
<jbicha> I might be a bit rusty at that
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> mattgriffin: Ubuntu One docs?
<mattgriffin> humphreybc: https://code.launchpad.net/~mattgriffin/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-one-docs
<humphreybc> oh fantastic
<humphreybc> I don't want to get the whole branch just for the ubuntu one docs
<humphreybc> could you please pastebin the section for me and i'll insert it into main?
<humphreybc> (Launchpad/bzr goes at about 5KB/s a second to download branches for me)
<meho_r> Hi there. What is final decision about acronims: SmallCaps or AllCaps?
<meho_r> *acronyms :D
<humphreybc> meho_r: the abbreviations or the full meaning?
<humphreybc> It should be like this
<humphreybc> Internet service provide (ISP)
<meho_r> abbrevs
<humphreybc> or desktop environment (DE)
<humphreybc> so it's not title case
<meho_r> e.g. GNOME is sometimes written with All Caps, and sometimes with Small Caps (not small letters)
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> don't think godbyk has decided that yet
<meho_r> :)
 * humphreybc likes how the "affecting you" thing has gone from 32 people to 49 in about 15 minutes after pimping it on facebook/twitter
<humphreybc> anyway, i really need to get some sleep
<jbicha> humphreybc: have a good night
<humphreybc> night
<jbicha> I got stuck on ./configure , poppler has trouble with fontconfig
<jbicha> is the manual in a sorta string freeze or when is that expected?
<dutchie> wednesday
<jbicha> I tried installing texlive in Lucid but I get the "no version of TeX Live was detected error" when I run install-pkgs.sh
<dutchie> the lucid packages don't work
<dutchie> you have to use the upstream ones
<jbicha> oh, silly wiki
<dutchie> there's a guide on the wiki somewhere
<jbicha> yeah, but it didn't say Lucid was broken
<ubuntujenkins> I will edit the wiki
<ubuntujenkins> jbicha: wiki is updates
<ubuntujenkins> *updated
<jbicha> installation is a little bit of a pain, but I guess it works
<daker> dutchie, TexLive or Tex Live ?
<dutchie> in what context?
<daker> Installing TeX Live 2009 or Installing TeXLive 2009
<daker> ?
<dutchie> with the space
<daker> see here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors
<daker> the first title : Installing TexLive 2009
<daker> and the second : Installing TeX Live 2009
<daker> the subtitle
<daker> wich one is correct ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: I think the one with the space http://www.tug.org/texlive/doc.html at least thats how tex live doc do it
<daker> that's right
<ubuntujenkins> indeed there needs to be a space added to the wiki
<daker> ubuntu-manual.org move for the second to the first page results http://www.google.co.ma/search?hl=fr&client=firefox-a&hs=bkH&rls=com.ubuntu%3Afr%3Aofficial&q=ubuntu-manual&btnG=Rechercher&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
<daker> our pagrank is N/A :s
<ubuntujenkins> how can we get it higher daker?
<daker> ubuntujenkins, SEO
<daker> putting specific description for each page, setting up keywords
<ubuntujenkins> lots of blogs on it then
<daker> higher page rank ===== needs more backlinks to our website
<daker> everyone who has a website or blog "MUST" put a link to our site :D
<daker> ubuntujenkins, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization
<ubuntujenkins> read it thanks daker
<meho_r> godby, we really do need that "Conventions" section ASAP :-)
<meho_r> godbyk, we really do need that "Conventions" section ASAP :-)
<meho_r> sorry
<meho_r> :)
<daker> godbyk, is sleeping now meho_r
<meho_r> :)
<meho_r> Australia?
<daker> me ? no from Morocco :)
<daker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco
<meho_r> Hehe, Marocco isn't that small so one needs a wiki for it :P
<daker> hhh
<daker> and you Australia?
<meho_r> No, Bosnia actually
<daker> good
<meho_r> (you may need wiki for it though) :D
<daker> lol
<meho_r> but when you said he's asleep now I though of Australia since there is about 3AM now
<meho_r> And sorry for typo: it is not Marocco (in my language is Maroko) :D
<daker> godbyk, is form USA
<daker> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinGodby
<Red_HamsterX> But he's on until, like, super-late!
<Red_HamsterX> ...And a PhD student?
 * Red_HamsterX feels inferior.
 * daker feels inferior too
<jbicha> what's the command to build the English manual?
<dutchie> make
<dutchie> or make show
<jbicha> oh
<jbicha> wow, this is harder than I thought
<jbicha> I'll have to try again later
<daker> dutchie, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/authors
<dutchie> the hover on the TL 2009 button would probably be better as "Download Tex Live 2009 now"
<daker> yeah
<dutchie> and "we recommend" rather than "I recommend"
<daker> is Copy Paste from the wiki
 * dutchie will fix the wiki then
<daker> I recommend is localized where ?
<daker> daker, i don't find "I recommend"
<daker> dutchie,  i don't find "I recommend"
<dutchie> in the installing tex live bit
<daker> find it
<dutchie> you've got it?
<daker> yes
<daker> dutchie, have receive my email from the ML ?
<daker> you*
<dutchie> about blogging the UM site?
<daker> yes
<dutchie> I'll get round to it
<daker> not writing articles , just putting a link of the UM website
<dutchie> might as well blog it while I'm at it
<Red_HamsterX> I added a link to mine a while ago.
<Red_HamsterX> But nobody reads it.
<Red_HamsterX> to/from
<ubuntujenkins> evening all
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<ubuntujenkins> hello Red_HamsterX
 * daker has to make the buttons for ubuntujenkins 
<ubuntujenkins> thanks daker
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: are you familiar with hiding buttons in windows?
<Red_HamsterX> Hiding or disabling?
<ubuntujenkins> hiding
<Red_HamsterX> Can you elaborate?
<ubuntujenkins> well in the first window if the user is not using lucid they will be given a message and the web browser will open the wiki page on how to get quickshot, I would like to hide the next button and only show the close button. you should be able to do it with self.main.next1.hide()
<Red_HamsterX> Why not just check the version before displaying that window?
<Red_HamsterX> If it isn't Lucid, show the link window.
<ubuntujenkins> if it isn't lucid just show a webpage?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh... Hmm...
<ubuntujenkins> I feel some message to the user should be there as well
<ubuntujenkins> the error i get is  self.main.next_1.hide()
<ubuntujenkins> AttributeError: 'QuickshotWindow' object has no attribute 'next_1'
<ubuntujenkins> luke-jennings@luke-jennings-laptop:~/Projects/quickshot/quickshot$
<ubuntujenkins> the button is called next_1
<Red_HamsterX> Which file? bin/quickshot?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn did it for another window, are you there tommy?
<Red_HamsterX> I think I know why... Just melle test it.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<Red_HamsterX> lemme*
<TommyBrunn> What's up, ubuntujenkins?
<ubuntujenkins> you knoe how you made some window buttons hide in the usesetup window?
<ubuntujenkins> I am trying to hide a button in the main window
<ubuntujenkins> self.main.next_1.hide() doesn't work but based on what you have done it should
<Red_HamsterX> Well, for some reason, next_1 isn't in the namespace.
<TommyBrunn> I can't remember right off the bat, but I think you need to hide the container.
<TommyBrunn> Or replace the content in the container.
<ubuntujenkins> right i shall look into hiding the container
<Red_HamsterX> I see it in the Glade file...
<TommyBrunn> Hmm. I'm looking through the pygtk docs right now, and there is a hide method for each widget.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, I think I know why.
<TommyBrunn> Since buttons are children of widgets, they should have the hide method
<Red_HamsterX> You never added an explicit reference to the button.
<TommyBrunn> Oh right, that's it!
<ubuntujenkins> I know exactly what that is.......
<Red_HamsterX> Just add a self.next_1 = get('next_1') line in the init function.
<Red_HamsterX> It isn't automatically inherited by main, since there's no need to add a reference to it for the system to work.
<ubuntujenkins> actually i did know what that is just not what it is called
<TommyBrunn> So what are you guys working on right now?
<ubuntujenkins> that worked thanks guys
<Red_HamsterX> I'm fixing a height-detection issue with vertically inverted sub-rects. After that, probably just polish.
<Red_HamsterX> And fixing any outstanding UI bugs.
<ubuntujenkins> bits and bobs for me, we have a quickshot cd, a ppa I am adding saftey mechanims
<TommyBrunn> Cool. So what's the current status of quickshot?
<TommyBrunn> What's working and what doesnt
<TommyBrunn> ?
<TommyBrunn> Isn't*
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, please add a 'FIXME' comment to that button's code, to remind us to decouple the OS from Quickshot for the next release.
<Red_HamsterX> Pretty much everything is working.
<TommyBrunn> That's fantastic
<Red_HamsterX> It's not as smooth as we want, but it'll get the job done, and it'll do it pretty well.
<TommyBrunn> Think you have time to walk me through how it works?
<Red_HamsterX> Between titeuf and Luke's work, I think it walks itself through most of the process.
<Red_HamsterX> Unless you mean the technical stuff.
<TommyBrunn> Yeah, I'm more interested in the technical bits.
<Red_HamsterX> Where would you like me to start?
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX you are much better at explaining
<Red_HamsterX> (I'll be slightly distracted as I calculate some things to test the sub-rects tuff)
<ubuntujenkins> I will add stuff if i can
<TommyBrunn> Well, I'd like to start with what happens on the server side.
<TommyBrunn> How are the screenshots stored?
<Red_HamsterX> Pure filesystem storage, to make the system portable and easy to update by hand.
<TommyBrunn> So, how are they organized?
<Red_HamsterX> Each one in placed in a 'data' directory (http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/data/), with a name@lang@time.png structure.
<Red_HamsterX> This is sufficient for the current needs.
<Red_HamsterX> You'll notice a lang.zip file at the bottom.
<TommyBrunn> That contains all the screenshots for a given language?
<Red_HamsterX> That was automatically generated by a request from http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/get_files.php?language=en last night.
<TommyBrunn> Cool!
<TommyBrunn> So when I start up Quickshot and log into the new account, what happens?
<Red_HamsterX> It collects the most recent screencaps (constrained by expected name), renamed so they can be extracted to a branch and committed.
<Red_HamsterX> After that, they're ready for the manual.
<Red_HamsterX> It's just a matter of extracting, eyeballing, and committing on the admin's part.
<Red_HamsterX> If anything's off, an updated version can be updated and the file can be plucked from data/ manually.
<TommyBrunn> Oh, and how do you store information for the screenshots? For example, how do you store instructions for what needs to be included in any given screenshot?
<Red_HamsterX> If someone's being abusive, we can go backwards in time to get useful images. (Not the fastest method, but it should be a non-issue for this task)
<Red_HamsterX> Do you have a recently pulled branch?
<TommyBrunn> Yeah, I just pulled.
<Red_HamsterX> Also, http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/ offers a quick progress view.
<Red_HamsterX> It's a bit ugly, but it'll work until we have time to polish everything.
<Red_HamsterX> Go to server/screencaps/config/ and open dictionary
<Red_HamsterX> That file is an authoritative manifest for everything htat a Quickshot client needs to do.
<Red_HamsterX> We didn't have time to add internationalization support to this version, though.
<Red_HamsterX> Clients will send requests like http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/get_details.php?name=01-who-are-you
<TommyBrunn> Well, that's fine for now. What do the #####-lines represent in the dictionary file?
<TommyBrunn> Chapters?
<Red_HamsterX> They'll then parse the values into a native Python dictionary.
<Red_HamsterX> They're just comments.
<Red_HamsterX> # makes a line a comment.
<Red_HamsterX> I just have them in there to show divisions between chapters.
<TommyBrunn> Ok, so they have nothing to do with the parsing. They're just there for structure.
<Red_HamsterX> All of this code is running on the ubuntu-manual.org server, too.
<Red_HamsterX> We're just using mine because it's easier to nmuke and manage when making changes.
<Red_HamsterX> They're there for humans.
<Red_HamsterX> The file is a flat database.
<Red_HamsterX> It's scanned linearly with every request.
<Red_HamsterX> (Which is sufficiently fast for any foreseeable need)
<TommyBrunn> When I run Quickshot, will it look at what language I'm using and suggest that I take Swedish screenshots, for example. Or do you select language yourself?
<Red_HamsterX> titeuf make it auto-detect.
<TommyBrunn> Sweet
<Red_HamsterX> Paired with the LiveCD, it should be easy for us to fill in the blanks if we don't have enough volunteers.
<TommyBrunn> I'm amazed at how fast you've been able to do all this.
<TommyBrunn> Last time I heard, you were still working on some support libraries.
<Red_HamsterX> That's where my focus has been all this time.
<Red_HamsterX> The web side is just a big library as far as the client is concerned.
<Red_HamsterX> It's all exposed through quickshot/lib/__init__.py
<Red_HamsterX> All I've done, really, is backend implementation.
<Red_HamsterX> Luke and titeuf have been woing all the GUI stuff.
<Red_HamsterX> doing*
<TommyBrunn> Well, you've been doing one hell of a job. All of you.
<Red_HamsterX> I agree. Considering our vastly diverse timezones, we've managed to make this work really well.
<ubuntujenkins> The team has done very well
<Red_HamsterX> Feel free to give Quickshot a try. It's quite usable.
<daker> what's the problem ?
<daker> ubuntujenkins, !!!
<ubuntujenkins> daker I have saved them but nothing is happening
<daker> one min
<ubuntujenkins> I canceled one in shock of a popup
<TommyBrunn> I'll give it a try now. I'm not on Lucid though. Will it still upload the screenshots to your server so that they can be easily purged?
<ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn: do quickly run -r --devel and it will work
<TommyBrunn> kk
<ubuntujenkins> that skips the detection
<TommyBrunn> I'm missing the module babel
<Red_HamsterX> python-pybabel
<ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/406116/ for some reason the web browser loads first
<Red_HamsterX> You might want to use p.wait() instead of .communicate() there.
<Red_HamsterX> It's guaranteed to procude a trivial amount of output.
<Red_HamsterX> You could then use '' in p.stdout.read()
<daker> ubuntujenkins, send it to luke@ubuntu-manual.org
<ubuntujenkins> thanks daker
<Red_HamsterX> As for the browser loading first... GTK timeout with callback, maybe?
<ubuntujenkins> they are great darker
<daker> :)
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: p.wait() gives an error
<Red_HamsterX> Paste/spam/PM?
 * ubuntujenkins the quickshot wiki is going to look shiny
<ubuntujenkins> File "bin/quickshot", line 127, in finish_initializing
<ubuntujenkins>     out, err = p.wait()
<ubuntujenkins> TypeError: 'int' object is not iterable
<Red_HamsterX> Oh. It just returns the returncode.
<Red_HamsterX> p = subproces...
<Red_HamsterX> p.wait()
<Red_HamsterX> if not '' in p.stdout.read():
<Red_HamsterX> Where '' = '10.04'
<Red_HamsterX> I need to be less lazy.
<TommyBrunn> I have it a try, but I couldn't get it to take any screenshots.
<Red_HamsterX> How far did you get?
 * Red_HamsterX likes bug reports.
<TommyBrunn> I chose to take a screenshot of the default terminal
<Red_HamsterX> Did a terminal window appear?
<TommyBrunn> It launched a terminal window and said "taking screenshot in 3... 2... 1..."
<ubuntujenkins> that reminds me of stuff we need to add
<TommyBrunn> Then the countdown thingy disappeared
<TommyBrunn> And nothing happened after that
<Red_HamsterX> ...Weird...
<Red_HamsterX> Lemme try.
<ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn: did it change your resolution?
<TommyBrunn> Yup
<ubuntujenkins> woo another one worked :-)
<ubuntujenkins> brb
<Red_HamsterX> Interesting...
<Red_HamsterX> I'm getting an error I never expected to see actually thrown.
<Red_HamsterX> Bug confirmed.
<Red_HamsterX> I
<Red_HamsterX> I'll get it working as soon as possible.
<Red_HamsterX> Sub-rect issue fixed. Now moving on to gnome-terminal not reporting its existence properly.
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, do we have a generic "something went wrong" dialogue?
<Red_HamsterX> I'd like to announce backend errors in some way other than a terminal stack trace.
<ubuntujenkins> nope but we will have one tomorrow
<Red_HamsterX> Okay.
<Red_HamsterX> Thanks for fixing the screen resolution issues.
<Red_HamsterX> Er...
<Red_HamsterX> resolution-change-dialogue issues*
<Red_HamsterX> Hmm... I can't reproduce that error anymore, TommyBrunn.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll add a step to try to protect against it, though.
<Red_HamsterX> I've intentionally committed a terminal screencap with an inconsistency in it.
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/get_latest.php?language=en&name=06-default-terminal
<Red_HamsterX> Feel free to replace it to test the system now, TommyBrunn.
<ubuntujenkins> What are your thougths on changing peoples host names to make the terminal screenshots less of a privacy issue ( a small one)?
<ubuntujenkins> and they can be consistant
<Red_HamsterX> (That page can be used, if we have time, to let the user know whether it's worth uploading a screenshot again.
<Red_HamsterX> (There's a function that converts it into a Pixbuf)
<Red_HamsterX> I don't think we should worry about blurring things out or anything.
<Red_HamsterX> It's not like there's any way of tracing the contributors.
<ubuntujenkins> ok cool, i am updating the wiki tomorrow if we had an ideal bug report what do we want in it?
<Red_HamsterX> Knowing someone's SSID is 'apostrophe' doesn't help wardrivers.
<Red_HamsterX> Stack traces.
<ubuntujenkins> so run quickshot --debug at the command line?
<Red_HamsterX> Failing that, output from the program with --debug turned on and human-readable reproduction steps.
<Red_HamsterX> As well as confirmation that it can be reproduced, if a stack trace/debug trace is missing.
<ubuntujenkins> ok, for that window, some thing like  "an unexpected error has occurred please click "File a bug" for information on how to report it.
<ubuntujenkins> the button will link to the wiki page on bugs
<ubuntujenkins> I wall also add the information to launchpad on what we would like from a bug
<Red_HamsterX> My errors are pretty descriptive.
<Red_HamsterX> Printing them to the error display shouldn't be confusing.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, the wiki is updated or not yet ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker not yet i am afraid it took longer than i thought to sort out a daily build
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> I will let you know as soon as it is done
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: if i leave you a bank box to post the errors in will that work??
<Red_HamsterX> That would probably work fine.
<ubuntujenkins> I will make it scrollable too
<Red_HamsterX> "Oh, no! An error occurred and it's not something Quickshot can handle by itself.\n\n<text>\n\n<stack trace>"
<ubuntujenkins> Is that what the box should contain?
<ubuntujenkins> just double checking
<Red_HamsterX> It's just a suggestion.
<ubuntujenkins> thats fine I assume <text> gets replaced automatically
<ubuntujenkins> Also the stuff you said earlier didn't work Oh. It just returns the returncode.
<ubuntujenkins> <Red_HamsterX> p = subproces...
<ubuntujenkins> <Red_HamsterX> p.wait()
<ubuntujenkins> <Red_HamsterX> if not '' in p.stdout.read():
<ubuntujenkins> <Red_HamsterX> Where '' = '10.04'
<Red_HamsterX> '%(error)s\n\n%(trace)s' % {'error': str(e), 'trace': some-traceback-call,}
<Red_HamsterX> (Or .format(), if you prefer)
<Red_HamsterX> What do you currently have in those lines?
<ubuntujenkins> I replaced them with the originals whilst I played with a window http://paste.ubuntu.com/406116/
<Red_HamsterX> http://paste.ubuntu.com/406139/
<ubuntujenkins> Thanks I had replaced the wrong bits, the web browser still shows first and the window doesn't show until the web browser is closed
<Red_HamsterX> Oh... Okay, that's interesting... and actually quite logical.
<Red_HamsterX> Launch another subprocess.Popen for the browser and abandon it.
<Red_HamsterX> os.system() blocks until its child's dead.
<Red_HamsterX> So it's synchronous.
<Red_HamsterX> Until the browser process terminates, control isn't returned to Python.
<Red_HamsterX> If you don't use .wait() or some other synchronization scheme, subprocess.Popen instances do whatever they want.
<Red_HamsterX> If you dereference/abandon it, it'll just keep running as long as its parent's alive, doing whatever it wants.
<Red_HamsterX> Don't PIPE stdout.
<Red_HamsterX> You could also use subprocess.call()
<Red_HamsterX> Which probably makes more sense.
<ubuntujenkins> That now works, I still have A LOT to learn :-)
<Red_HamsterX> It'll come with time. :)
<Red_HamsterX> For a tester, you're doing a lot. =P
<ubuntujenkins> I think it is a good way to learn especially with you guys being so helpful
<Red_HamsterX> Projects are always good ways to learn. (Unless you have someone overbearing, who insists on things being done their way)
<Red_HamsterX> Feel free to ask about anything. Chances are one of us has encountered it before.
<ubuntujenkins> Thanks
<ubuntujenkins> Evening titeuf_87 hows you?
<titeuf_87> Hey ubuntujenkins
<titeuf_87> Pretty horrible: missed my tram to go home so was home late, once home I was without internet for couple of hours.
<titeuf_87> Then once internet was back power suddenly went down, twice.
<titeuf_87> And now I get i/o errors from my hd
<ubuntujenkins> that sucks not good then
<titeuf_87> I'm more worrying about those i/o errors now, those can't be good.
<titeuf_87> Like now, if I launch firefox, it brings down my whole computer where I have to reboot.
<ubuntujenkins> back it all up quickly it doesn't sound good
<titeuf_87> Yeah, I got another hd now, but it's too late at night do to that now so it'll have to wait till tomorrow.
<ubuntujenkins> you are still here tomorrow right?
<titeuf_87> If my internet isn't down again, I should be.
<ubuntujenkins> good good, I am having a fight with glade again
<titeuf_87> Ah I can help out a little bit now I think, although I won't stay long as I'm fairly tired.
<titeuf_87> What problem do you have?
<dakira> Hi.. just read through the manual.. looks really nice! Though some things refer to older releases of Ubuntu. In the Codes-Section e.g. you are told you have to enable the multiverse repository. To my knowledge it is enabled by default now. I'll report some bug in the next couple of day, I think ;)
<ubuntujenkins> I am trying to make neil an error window but the scroll bars don't work and the text always centres vertically.
<ubuntujenkins> dakira: Which country are you in?
<titeuf_87> Can I see what you have already?
<ubuntujenkins> sure I will just upload it
<dakira> ubuntujenkins: are you saying ubiquity automatically enables multiverse if my country allows all codecs?
<dakira> s/Codes/Codecs/g
<ubuntujenkins> dakira: I am unsure, i have a feeling that it might be
<Red_HamsterX> Errors are rare enough that it probably isn't worth polishing beyond making it useful, given how close we are to April 1st.
<Red_HamsterX> (Regarding Quickshot)
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: rev 170
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/170 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 170
<ubuntujenkins> nope titeuf_87 spotted a typo rev 171
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/171 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 171
<ubuntujenkins> dakira: if you are going to file a bug please do it soon as we are going to be in writing freeze soon
<dakira> ubuntujenkins: I know. I'll check the repos with the live-CD and file the bugs until tomorrow
<ubuntujenkins> thanks dakira
<titeuf_87> looking now ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> thank you
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: the ppa works properly now daily builds and all
<titeuf_87> ah I noticed some mails about that at work earlier, that it failed.
<titeuf_87> That's fixed?
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, for the scrollbar, that's easy enough to fix: right-click on the label, add parent, viewport
<titeuf_87> And for the text not being centered, this does look right to me, aligned horizontally.
<ubuntujenkins> the scrollbar makes sense
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: it all makes sense now, I will commit it in a second
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: and Red_HamsterX I have started the wiki changes, feel free to edit it i am not the best descriptive writer. I haven't done much but I have started to add dakers buttons and there will be a get quickshot page apearing
<titeuf_87> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot
<titeuf_87> that one?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: I have messed it up can you please commit those changes the  suggested text was "Oh, no! An error occurred and it's not something Quickshot can handle by itself.\n\n<text>\n\n<stack trace>"
<titeuf_87> Sure.
<titeuf_87> You get the stack trace in the code already?
<ubuntujenkins> thanks, that text was suggested by Red_HamsterX I think he has plans for it
<titeuf_87> Ok, pushed it now.
<titeuf_87> Anything else that I could do now that you know won't take long/won't be a lot of work?
<ubuntujenkins> thanks, no thats fine thanks for you help
<titeuf_87> Sorry I couldn't help out more today, I wanted to add the ability to view info/reference screenshot from the screenshot list but didn't have the time for it.
<titeuf_87> Hopefully I will tomorrow.
<ubuntujenkins> thats no problem we have a good program
<titeuf_87> anyways, going to bed now. Night all.
<ubuntujenkins> we need to call a freeze at some point so i can get  a good version onto the cd and then get the cd to godbyk
<ubuntujenkins> night titeuf_87
<titeuf_87> Let's do that tomorrow too, test it fully and see that everything works :)
<ubuntujenkins> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-30
<dutchie> glad to see someone picked up on bzr commit --fixes :)
<godbyk> dutchie: :)
<godbyk> now I get to scroll back through 8 hours of irc logs and see if I missed anything interesting. :)
 * dutchie thinks quickshot could do with its own channel
<godbyk> dutchie: re: the rosetta issues.. we've just given up on that, basically?
<dutchie> until writing freeze
<godbyk> it probably could these days.
<godbyk> well, I meant the issue with the translations not being marked fuzzy or whatever.
<dutchie> the bug got commented on earlier
<dutchie> I can't remember why
<godbyk> Someone remarked on it just complaining that it hasn't been fixed and it's been broken for years.  they also asked if there were better tools to use than rosetta (that would handle the string comparison better)
<dutchie> ah, have you got a link handy?
<dutchie> ah, nm
<dutchie> bug 535371
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 535371 in ubuntu-manual "Translations keep disappearing" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/535371
<dutchie> it's a difficult problem
<dutchie> it might make more sense to declare the manual as open for translations only after the writing freeze
<dutchie> then we could work without the translators breathing down our necks
* dutchie changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | STRING FREEZE in less than 24 hours | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual | Launchpad:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | TODO LIST: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F
* dutchie changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | STRING FREEZE in less than 24 hours | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | TODO LIST: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F
<dutchie> bloody superfluous spaces
 * dutchie heads to bed
<dutchie> night
<godbyk> dutchie: g'night.
<godbyk> are any of the quickshot guys still around?
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<Red_HamsterX> Need me, godbyk?
 * Red_HamsterX wanders off to eat.
 * godbyk signs
 * godbyk sighs
 * godbyk gives hand-sign to his isp
<godbyk> stupid internet connection.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: still around?
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<godbyk> My connection dropped. Sorry about that.
<godbyk> Here's what I attempted to say earlier:
<godbyk> Hey, Red_HamsterX.  Per your earlier discussion about unifying the hostnames for the screenshots. I think it's a good idea.
<godbyk> You don't need to change the hostname, though -- just change the prompt itself.
<godbyk> argh!
<Red_HamsterX> ?
<Red_HamsterX> Unifying hostnames?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, oyu mean the Bash prompts?
<Red_HamsterX> Prefix with a p1 export?
<Red_HamsterX> assignment*
<Red_HamsterX> PS1*
<godbyk> connection dropped again.
<godbyk> FML
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: what messages of mine did you get? (if any)
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: yes
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: use $PS1 instead of actually changing the hostname.
<Red_HamsterX> I got everything through "argh!"
<Red_HamsterX> Setting PS1 while launching gnome-terminal doesn't seem to be working...
<Red_HamsterX> I think it's re-reading bash_rc or something.
<Red_HamsterX> PS1='quickshot@quickshot:~$' gnome-terminal
<Red_HamsterX> That's what I tried.
<Red_HamsterX> It updated the working context, but it did nothing to the child.
<Red_HamsterX> (So pre-emptively setting it on launch wouldn't work)
<Red_HamsterX> Even exporting it is failing.
<godbyk> gnome-terminal rereads .bashrc or .bash_profile (I forget which one).
<godbyk> But as long as you're creating the user, you can set the .bashrc to contain whatever you like
<Red_HamsterX> I suppose we could edit that directly as part of the installation/on-load process.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah. Just >> the string.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll try that.
<godbyk> echo "export PS1='quickshot@quickshot:~$'" >> .bashrc
<godbyk> during login or something
<Red_HamsterX> We're definitely going to need to excise all the Ubuntu-specific stuff from this thing when we start rebuilding it.
 * Red_HamsterX hates tightly coupled designs.
<Red_HamsterX> Yep. Seem to working as expected.
<Red_HamsterX> Great idea, godbyk. :)
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> only took me two hours to get it out. :-)
<Red_HamsterX> Call your ISP and say you need to speak with network operations regarding spam or something, then start complaining.
<Red_HamsterX> You'll almost certainly reach someone capable.
<godbyk> I'm guessing it's a problem in the cable.  (It's a cable ISP.)
<godbyk> I had a tech out here last week and he replaced some splitters with barrel connectors, but didn't test the signal strength afterward because he'd already taken his meter back to the truck.
<Red_HamsterX> Doesn't matter. Escalate it to someone who doesn't normally hear about these things.
<godbyk> I figured, okay, we'll see if that fixes it.
<godbyk> Well, it didn't
<godbyk> So now I'm going to have to have a tech come out again and actually test the line all the way through this time.
<Red_HamsterX> My signal strength is pretty weak here, too. :(
<godbyk> When the Internet is up, the speeds are good.
<Red_HamsterX> If I connect the TV on the other side of this room, I lose access every hour oir so.
<godbyk> In fact, let me test the speed real quick.
<godbyk> download is about 7 mb and upload is about 1 mb.
<godbyk> and it's the evening when most people will be on.  (cable is a shared medium)
<Red_HamsterX> DOCSIS 2 or 3?
 * Red_HamsterX flaunts relevant knowledge.
<godbyk> no idea what that means. :)
<godbyk> last time I worked at an isp it was dial-up and just starting to roll out wireless. :-)
<Red_HamsterX> It's an IP-over-Coax standard.
<godbyk> I see that.. (reading the wikipedia article).
<godbyk> is there a way to find out easily?
<godbyk> I don't own the modem, so can't do much there, I'm afraid.
<Red_HamsterX> Dunno.
<Red_HamsterX> It doesn't really matter.
<godbyk> bummer.
<godbyk> The company is Mediacom.
<Red_HamsterX> I was just bringing it up because you mentioned that cable is shared.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm a prideful geek. =P
<godbyk> aha. :)
<Red_HamsterX> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/firepower-prompt.jpg
<Red_HamsterX> We should so do that!
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> sure! as soon as it's the default prompt in ubuntu. ;-)
<Red_HamsterX> I seem to fodly remember creating custom prompts forever ago.
<Red_HamsterX> fondly*
<Red_HamsterX> I'm glad those days are gone.
<godbyk> I used to do it on DOS a lot. Haven't done it on linux, really.
<godbyk> I just force the color prompt.
<Red_HamsterX> I had a three-line monstrosity that stopped just short of telling me the weather.
<Red_HamsterX> Probably to compensate for the fact that I was using Fluxbox at the time.
<Red_HamsterX> And therefore had no useful information anywhere else.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: you should set the prompt to 'quickshot@quickshot-computer' or whatever example form is used in the manual.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll need to ask ubuntujenkins what he's using on the LiveCD.
<Red_HamsterX> Though that does seem better than 'quickshot@quickshot'.
<Red_HamsterX> Since it actually says "This one's a hostname!"
<godbyk> exactly.
<godbyk> brb
<donri> Have this manual team considered making any other manuals, or will you be busy even just updating the ubuntu manual when it's out?
<donri> Your work is extra ordinary.
<godbyk> lack of Internet seriously sucks.
<humphreybc> lol
<donri> <donri> Have this manual team considered making any other manuals, or will you be busy even just updating the ubuntu manual when it's out? <donri> Your work is extra ordinary.
<godbyk> donri: We will look at writing other manuals after Lucid.
<donri> Maybe topic-oriented manuals centered around Ubuntu. "Photo editing in Ubuntu" (gimp) "Programming in Ubuntu" (Python, PyGTK) ...
<donri> But probably prioritize topics lacking quality documentation.
<donri> (Free content documentation.)
<donri> Alternatively, "Getting started with GIMP 2.6"; but it seems easier to focus on Ubuntu (not spending a chapter about installation on various systems).
<donri> (Familiar screenshots.)
<godbyk> Hey, IlyaHaykinson. How goes it?
<godbyk> My Internet connection is total crap again today.
<godbyk> I'm trying to edit and commit as quickly as possible.  Driving me nuts.
<IlyaHaykinson> doing ok.
<IlyaHaykinson> amending the proofreading script with some other things i know about that are wrong
<IlyaHaykinson> looking at a spellchecker
<godbyk> awesome
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: aspell -t should work
<godbyk> I've been just running spell-check from within vim when I have a file open.
<IlyaHaykinson> sure. but so would a nice little python wrapper for all of those
<godbyk> feel free to totally rewrite that proofreading script if you want.
<godbyk> I just hacked it together really quickly to check a couple things. It's horribly inefficient and limited in what it can do right now.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Oh, and if you come across all-caps acronyms, wrap them in \acronym.  Like \acronym{GUI}, \acronym{GNOME}, etc.
<IlyaHaykinson> ah, sure.
<humphreybc> godbyk: I don't understand what I'm supposed to do with the PDF you sent me
<godbyk> what pdf?
<godbyk> oh.
<humphreybc> it has a lot of yellow stuff blanking out loads of things
<godbyk> those are the edits and remarks from meho_r.
<godbyk> yeah, you'll have to load it in acronread to see the annotations properly.
<humphreybc> oh
<godbyk> evince/poppler don't support them well yet, apparently.
<humphreybc> do I need to install acronread?
<godbyk> yep
<meho_r> Hi guys
<humphreybc> acronread or acroread?
<godbyk> acroread
<godbyk> sorry
<meho_r> Sorry for inconvenience
<humphreybc> I can't get that on Lucid, remember
<humphreybc> it's not packaged for Lucid yet
<godbyk> typing quickly tonight for fear the internet will go down any second. :)
<meho_r> humphreybc, you can use wine?
<godbyk> meho_r: no worries. it works great for me in acroread and it's easy to follow.
<meho_r> ok
<humphreybc> godbyk: perhaps you can just do the implementation then
<humphreybc> I have some more things to go through in chapter 4
<godbyk> humphreybc: if it hasn't been done already, we should probably start culling out the unfinished bits that won't make it into the final version.
<humphreybc> plus I have to start sorting out all the announcements and whatnot
<godbyk> humphreybc: sure.
<godbyk> humphreybc: I agree with IlyaHaykinson's email, btw. We should branch after the writing freeze and let the translators work on the frozen branch while the authors, editors, etc. continue improving the main branch for the next edition.
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> anyone know how to branch?
<IlyaHaykinson> are you sure that's possible in launchpad?
<IlyaHaykinson> i.e. the ability to work on a non-head branch/
<IlyaHaykinson> for translations etc
<IlyaHaykinson> i figured we'd have to branch for the _new_ version, but if we can branch off the first edition that would be great.
<humphreybc> we could create a new series
<humphreybc> and copy what we have in the main branch across
<humphreybc> maybe
<IlyaHaykinson> oh, no need to copy explicitly
<IlyaHaykinson> bzr should be able to do that.
<IlyaHaykinson> it's more a question of how launchpad treats branches
<IlyaHaykinson> actually, you can try it with the website first.
<IlyaHaykinson> it's a separate project, right?
<humphreybc> yeah
<godbyk> I'll let you guys work out the technical details. Just fill me in on how I'm supposed to do whatever I'm supposed to do. :-)
<humphreybc> ok
 * humphreybc is running out of steam, the writing freeze can't come soon enough =S
<godbyk> I'm running out of energy, too, but I wish the writing freeze were another couple weeks away. :-)
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> Still a *ton* of editing to do!
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> prologue to 3 are okay, 3 is okay, 4 is a disaster but i'll fix it, 5 isn't that great but jamin's going to fix it, 6, 7, 8 and 9 I have no idea but it sounds like you guys are working on them
<godbyk> I just edited 9.
<godbyk> chapter 9 is just weird.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> dutchie wrote most of it :P
<godbyk> it's not really about learning more about ubuntu.  it's about linux distributions.
<humphreybc> yeah
<godbyk> it should be fleshed out some more.
<humphreybc> that's why I changed the name to Learning More
<godbyk> I was expecting it to be a guide to other resources for getting more information or help.
<godbyk> but it wasn't that at all.
<humphreybc> that stuff should be there
<godbyk> yeah, it's not. :)
<humphreybc> i'm going to re-write the last section of that chapter now
<godbyk> okey doke.
<godbyk> don't make any mistakes!
<humphreybc> i'll try not to :P
<godbyk> I'm going to incorporate meho_r's work (prologue through part of chapter 2)
<humphreybc> okay...
<humphreybc> what are the main changes?
<humphreybc> (the prologue thru chapter 2 I've already gone through)
<meho_r> consistency
<meho_r> formattings
<humphreybc> ah, well that's alright then
<meho_r> etc.
<humphreybc> cool
<humphreybc> Okay give me some more places to get help, so far I have (in this order), the in-built help, community documentation, ubuntu forums, launchpad answers, IRC help in #ubuntu
<humphreybc> what else?
<humphreybc> I was thinking of doing the Official Ubuntu Book, Keir Thomas' Pocket Guide
<humphreybc> godbyk, there isn't enough difference between sections and subsections
<godbyk> humphreybc: It's on my list.
<humphreybc> cool, thanks
<godbyk> I'm trying hard to push the formatting stuff off until after the writing freeze.
<humphreybc> that's all good
<humphreybc> just as long as it's on your list :D
<godbyk> my long, long list. :)
<humphreybc> Should I mention the Official Ubuntu Book as a source for extra help?
<humphreybc> or Keir Thomas' pocket guide?
<humphreybc> they're both kinda out of date
<godbyk> Your call.
<godbyk> I'd limit our recommendations to things that are up to date and will actually be helpful.
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> I'm not going to include them
<humphreybc> I'm just pushing my new stuff now, have a look
<godbyk> 'kay
<godbyk> Change "OS X" to "Mac OS X" everywhere.
<humphreybc> k
<donri> But don't mass-replace "Mac OS X" into "Mac Mac OS X" everywhere. ;)
<humphreybc> lol\
<godbyk> heh.. right.
<humphreybc> doing good guys :)
<humphreybc> godbyk: have a look at that stuff I wrote and let me know what you think
 * humphreybc is going to cook some dinner, be back in about 30 minutes
<meho_r> godbyk, should I use different colors for formatting stuff like bolds, italics, spaces etc. so you may skip them at this moment?
<godbyk> meho_r: Sure. If you're going to color things, try to do it semantically.  So one color means it's the first time a word is being defined, another color means the word is being emphasized, etc.
<meho_r> That could be a lot of colors then :D
<godbyk> meho_r: Also, you don't need to flag the acronyms anymore. I'm going to take care of all of those at once pretty soon.
<Red_HamsterX> Anyone need me to look at anything Quickshot-related before I go to sleep?
<meho_r> godbyk, so you decided which one to use?
<meho_r> small caps or all caps?
<IlyaHaykinson> heh, spellchecker is helping
<godbyk> meho_r: I think I'm going to use small caps.
<IlyaHaykinson> let me commit it
<meho_r> godbyk, OK. Just don't forget MB, GHz, CD :-P
<godbyk> meho_r: Yeah, MHz and GHz will have to remain as-is.  Plus, they're not really acronyms.  But MB and CD will get small-capped.
<godbyk> I'm going to also lave the mixed-case words like OpenSUSE as-is.
<meho_r> OldStyle numbers look weird when followed my AllCaps MHz :
<godbyk> meho_r: yeah, but it's a pretty rare occurrence.
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: can you pull, run the pkgs/install-pkgs.sh script and make sure the python-enchant gets installed?
<IlyaHaykinson> and then ./spellcheck.py|less
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: sure
<Red_HamsterX> 'mb' I can kinda see, but why are you lower-casing 'CD'?
<meho_r> godbyk, do you have "conventions" list finished?
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: not lower-casing, but in small-caps.
<godbyk> meho_r: Not finished by any means.  What there is can be found in Help/godbyk/latex-handout/, though.
<Red_HamsterX> Like the CSS property of a similar name?
<Red_HamsterX> property/attribute/whatever
<Red_HamsterX> Eh. I'm sure you know what you're doing.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: if you pull and compile the pdf, look at chapter 9 for 'GNU', 'GNOME', and the like.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: did you push?
<IlyaHaykinson> er, heh. maybe that's the problem, eh? :)
<IlyaHaykinson> one sec
<Red_HamsterX> texlive sure takes a while to install...
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: yeah, it's a big download and install.
<Red_HamsterX> ! LaTeX Error: File `xkeyval.sty' not found.
<manualbot> Red_HamsterX: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Red_HamsterX> Did I forget to installa  package?
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: in the pkgs/ dir, run the install-pkgs.sh script
<Red_HamsterX> Ah. I probably should have searched before assuming I knew what I was doing.
<IlyaHaykinson> ok, pushed.. it's not great (lots of false positives), but helps find some errors if you're patient
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: spell-checker works pretty handily!
<IlyaHaykinson> nod. script can use quite a bit of fixing up at some point, to a) make it use a word list, instead of having all that exception stuff in code, b) use a better tokenizer so that we're not splitting de-selected as de and selected
<IlyaHaykinson> and need a ton of add'l exceptions
<IlyaHaykinson> but, well, it's a start
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> most of those exceptions will get added to the word list in our style guide to show the proper spelling, too.
<IlyaHaykinson> nod
<nisshh> time to rock the glossary
<godbyk> nisshh: I keep adding more TODOs for the glossary. :)
<nisshh> ok, ill have a look
<nisshh> godbyk: have you fixed the issue with smallcaps and the \gls command?
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I thought it used to be UNIX. Is it Unix now?
<godbyk> nisshh: I'm not sure.  Point me at an example of it and I'll take a look.
<nisshh> there is no example in the tex right now, it caused a make error so i had to remove it
<nisshh> godbyk: but if say i change this: \small-caps{GNOME}
<godbyk> nisshh: Where was that place? I'll try it here.
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: UNIX only when talking about -the- UNIX
<nisshh> to this: small-caps{\gls{GNOME}}
<nisshh> then theres a make error
<IlyaHaykinson> otherwise, "Unix" is common to mean "UNIX-like"
<nisshh> godbyk: it was in the prologue i think
<godbyk> nisshh: Okay, let me take a look at it.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Fair enough.
<nisshh> godbyk: ok, ill link other entries in the mean time
<godbyk> nisshh: Try this: For the glossary entries that are acronyms, wrap the contents of the name argument in \acronym.
<godbyk> For instance:  \newglossaryentry{GNOME}{name={\acronym{GNOME}}, description={Blah blah blah.}}
<godbyk> See if that works.
<nisshh> godbyk: ok
<godbyk> Then you don't need to use \smallcaps{\gls{GNOME}} and it's more correct anyway.
<nisshh> godbyk: so i can remove the \smallcaps{} command and just have \gls{GNOME}?
<godbyk> nisshh: Yep.
<godbyk> Use \acronym instead of \smallcaps in the \newglossaryentry, too.
<godbyk> (New command. :))
 * humphreybc is back
<nisshh> godbyk: i never used \smallcaps in \newglossaryentry
<nisshh> godbyk: someone put it in the chapter tex
<godbyk> nisshh: I know. I just wanted to point out that you should use \acronym instead of \smallcaps now.  \smallcaps was the original command. I just created the \acronym command today.
<nisshh> ah, right i just saw that they had all been converted
<nisshh> compiling it now
<humphreybc> what happens when you choose "Guided partitioning"
<humphreybc> ?
<nisshh> humphreybc: doesnt it say?
<nisshh> in the installer
<humphreybc> no idea
<nisshh> i have a vague memory of there being an option called "Guided - Use Entire Disk
<nisshh> :
<nisshh> and "Guided - Choose between them at boot
<humphreybc> nvm
<humphreybc> Migration assistant?
<humphreybc> Unless someone can tell me about it, it's going to be cut
<humphreybc> too late, it's gone
<nisshh> noooooooo!
<nisshh> :)
<nisshh> godbyk: \acronym works great!
<godbyk> nisshh: awesome!
<godbyk> that'll simplify it then.
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> lol im trying to convert 3.8k songs from mp3 to ogg, compile the manual, browse the net, install a game and edit tex, all on a 7 year old p4
<humphreybc> we've been burning through the revisions recently
<nisshh> and its not slow
<humphreybc> it was up to like 550 only a few days ago, and now i'm just pushing 662!
<donri> mp3 to vorbis results in worse quality than either mp3 or original vorbis.
<nisshh> humphreybc: good feeling isnt it!
<nisshh> donri: not noticable by ear, just on paper it is
<donri> I have OCD.
<humphreybc> why are you converting them to ogg?
<nisshh> donri: should save me around 5gigs+ of disk space
<donri> Of course, I also have OCD about using mp3. :(
<nisshh> more once i get another 80gigs of music off a friend
<nisshh> estimated 2 1/2 days remaining to convert all of them lol
<nisshh> its right now i wish i had a 6 core cpu
<humphreybc> hey godbyk, how's that nomenclature going?
<godbyk> Seirously?
<humphreybc> yeah :)
<godbyk> I just got done typing a short list for it.
<godbyk> :)
<humphreybc> cool, it's V important
<godbyk> I'm going to finish meho_r's edits and then I'll get back to it.
<humphreybc> good man
<godbyk> It is important, but I can't really do it until I'm done fiddling with the formatting.
<godbyk> Right now I think there's way too much bold.
<meho_r> Yeah
<godbyk> Also, everything is so inconsistent.  Half the time people didn't use the actual commands.
<godbyk> So I'm trying to fix that, too.
<nisshh> godbyk: wow, really?
<godbyk> Apparently people like to just bold and italicize things randomly. :)
<nisshh> meh
<humphreybc> yup
<godbyk> I mean, they usually have some reason for doing it, but it's not necessarily consistent with anyone else's actions.
<meho_r> That's why I asked about convention part. It should have been done first IMHO
<godbyk> meho_r: Some of it was.
<humphreybc> it'll be better for next release, don't worry
<meho_r> :)
<humphreybc> it's not the end of the world :)
<godbyk> But people ran into cases where they needed a new semantic command and didn't bother to have me create one. They just used the bold/italic/whatever command directly.
<nisshh> uh, yuck
<meho_r> Too many edits?
<meho_r> Too many people?
<godbyk> I'm thinking there will have to be a second edition -- just for me. :)
<meho_r> :)
<godbyk> meho_r: That, and there was no guide up-front about a lot of the situations.
<godbyk> And no one brought up the questions. They just did whatever came to mind first and didn't check with what others were doing.
<humphreybc> godbyk: USB needs the \acronym command?
<godbyk> That's going to be one of the first things I work on when we get this first edition pushed out: a style guide.
<godbyk> humphreybc: yep
<godbyk> brb
<humphreybc> cool
<meho_r> godbyk, I'll send you next couple of pages in a min.
<nisshh> one thing we should do is point all new budding authors to that style guide once godbyk fixes it up
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> well the plan in the future is to have some sort of latex GUI app with buttons that people can hit to enter commands
<humphreybc> kinda like word when you highlight some text and then hit italics
<humphreybc> it'll be a WYSIWYG editor
<humphreybc> so they wouldn't see the command, but they'd see it become italics
<godbyk> back
<godbyk> meho_r: thanks. I'm just starting on your installation chapter edits.
 * godbyk thinks humphreybc is dreaming big
<nisshh> humphreybc: wow, that will take a while to develop
<humphreybc> :)
 * nisshh agrees with godbyk
<humphreybc> i'm sure we can do it
<godbyk> I think I would prefer to use inline icons instead of some of the textual descriptions (for, say, the session menu, etc.).  But that may have to wait until a second edition.
<meho_r> Can you tell me how large the source is? (I have monthly bandwidth limit and considering to get involved directly in future)
<godbyk> gah.. humphreybc, could you possible have used the word "CD" more times in the installation chapter? ;-)
 * godbyk is adding \acronym
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> hehe
<donri> "CD means a CD disk."
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> I think it's actually "disc"
<donri> "Built with NT technology."
<humphreybc> so there's like HDD = Hard disk drive
<humphreybc> and then CD is compact disc
<humphreybc> note the different spelling of disc
<donri> Yea.
 * nisshh just realised humphreybc has a bad habbit of repeating himself
<donri> But we actually say "CD disc" in Swedish.
<donri> That's somewhat amusing.
<humphreybc> nisshh: I do?
<humphreybc> where?
<nisshh> in the installation chapter lol
<humphreybc> what do I repeat?
<nisshh> CD alot of times :)
<humphreybc> oh right
 * humphreybc is editing Sayantan's sound section.....
<nisshh> godbyk: what does the \glspl command do?
<godbyk> nisshh: It puts in the plural form of the word.
<godbyk> So "I have seven \glspl{apple}."  --> "I have seven apples."
<humphreybc> that's silly
<humphreybc> what happens if you have a special plural?
<godbyk> If the plural form of the word is not created by simply adding 's' to the end, then you'll need to add 'plural={apples}' (or whatever) to the \newglossaryentry.
<humphreybc> Like "I have seven \glspl{sheep}." does it become "I have seven sheeps." ?
<godbyk> humphreybc: It won't if nisshh does a good job. :-)
<humphreybc> lol
<jaminday> Hey all, anyone editing chapter 5 at the moment?
<nisshh> nope
<humphreybc> jaminday, deploy!
<jaminday> Ok, I'll be taking a look tonight then. Just didn't want to double up and cause conflicts!
<jaminday> humphreybc: Did i read that you cut the partitioning section?
<nisshh> godbyk: ok
<humphreybc> sort of
<jaminday> ok - taking a look now
<nisshh> godbyk: i still get a make error doing \acronym{\gls{GUI}}
<godbyk> nisshh: just use \gls{GUI}.  no \acronym needed there.
<godbyk> the \acronym bit only goes in the \newglossaryentry part.
<nisshh> ah, gotcha
<nisshh> godbyk: working again now, funny how im the only one who seems to break stuff now
<godbyk> heh.. I break things all the time and have to figure out how to fix 'em.
<godbyk> I just don't tell you guys. ;-)
<jaminday> humphreybc: yeah i think that's the way to go for this edition (RE partitioning section). It's unfortunate we don't have the time to add this stuff but we will make sure we get to it for next release.
<nisshh> hehe, yea but your the texnician!
<humphreybc> jaminday: yeah
 * humphreybc never wants to see another word in his life
<nisshh> hehe
<jaminday> humphreybc: if you feel like fixing another small bit, i just added another TODO to chapter 2 near the bottom.
<jaminday> Revision just pushed
<jaminday> cos i know how much you are LOVING writing at the moment
<humphreybc> cheers Jamin
<humphreybc> (not)
<humphreybc> behold, the worst sentence ever
<humphreybc> "If you wish to change to another sound source, once the selection is made, that device will become default unless changed."
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> if you wish to change that sentence, once the change is made, that sentence will become changed unless it's changed...
<humphreybc> hahahaha
<humphreybc> +1
<nisshh> one word "WOW"
<humphreybc> if you wish the ubuntu manual to be awesome, once you have made it awesome, it will stay awesome until it becomes not awesome.
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> but seriously, i've been so tired some nights while working on this project that i'm sure i've written worse sentences than that!
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> humphreybc: installation chapter: "loop files".. do we need to describe any of these details? can we cut them? they sound scary and confusing.
<humphreybc> yeah cut them
<jaminday> ooh, i don't remember seeing loop files
 * godbyk fears the conflicts that will result when he pulls the latest revision. :-(
<nisshh> WOW, how many people used the word "guide"?!?!?
<jaminday> i know... what else to call it though! We were trying to steer clear of manual in-text werent we?
<godbyk> jaminday: circa page 24
<humphreybc> guide/manual same diff
<nisshh> jaminday: if we were i didnt know :)
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> note to self: \them doesn't work as well as \then when compiling.
<jaminday> hmm... don't know where i got that from then
<ubuntujenkins> morning manual team
<godbyk> humphreybc: should we just yank the entire wubi section?  there's not much there.
<ubuntujenkins> yes do it :P
<thorwil> humphreybc, godbyk: Credits, Artwork Title Page mentions Wolter and a Kris Klunder i'm not even aware of, but no David Nel. that ain't right
<godbyk> thorwil: nope, it's not. the credits will be overhauled. no fear.
<humphreybc> yeah, don't worry, the credits are just placeholders for now
<jaminday> godbyk: yeah i think so. Especially to get rid of those scary loop files!
<humphreybc> godbyk: I wrote that Wubi section and it took me ages :(
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> I think we need to keep it to acknowledge it exists
<jaminday> humphreybc: we will come back to it, no fear!
<humphreybc> Find some info on the community docs or whatever on Wubi and link to that
<humphreybc> say it's out of the scope of this guide or some bullshit
<thorwil> godbyk: also with  "Authors" and "Artwork and Title Page"  margin-top is less than margin-bottom!?
<godbyk> thorwil: the spacing has 'glue' that allows it to stretch and shrink so the page is filled.  that's one of the last things I'll be adjusting before we publish.
<godbyk> humphreybc: how about we revisit the wubi installer in the next edition?
<humphreybc> :'(
<humphreybc> Make it a margin note or something if you must, but don't remove all mention of Wubi
<godbyk> crud.. now I have to figure out what changes were made to installation.tex and see what's biffed. :-(
<godbyk> I don't want a half-baked explanation in the first chapter of the book. that's just tacky. :)
<humphreybc> make it better then
<humphreybc> we can't just pretend it doesn't exist because a lot of times newbies are instructed to use Wubi
 * humphreybc just pushed changes to chapter 4
<godbyk> I don't have time to make it better. I'm busy editing everything else. :)
<humphreybc> okay i'll look at it now
<humphreybc> commit and push what you have so far
<godbyk> I will in just a sec.
<godbyk> have to merge with your latest installation.tex stuff
<humphreybc> there isn't even ONE margin note in the security chapter
<humphreybc> compared to chapter 5 which has tonnes of margin notes
<jaminday> You want me to reduce the no of margin notes in chapter 5?
<humphreybc> no!
<humphreybc> margin notes are good
<humphreybc> we just need to increase the amount everywhere else
<jaminday> ok
<jaminday> godbyk: just to clarify the \gls command- it should be used each time that word appears, yes?
<nisshh> nope
<godbyk> jaminday: I suggested to nisshh to use it on the first appearance of the word.
<godbyk> It can be used more often if you like.
<humphreybc> I like it how bug 248355 started with 32 people affected, now it has 74 people after I pimped it on facebook and twitter
<nisshh> in each chapter
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 248355 in poppler "Evince doesn't anti-alias graphics" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248355
<godbyk> It just has to occur at least once for the entry to appear in the glossary.
<godbyk> humphreybc: did you verify that it's the right bug?
<jaminday> ah ok. Yeah that makes more sense to me. Every time felt like overkill
<humphreybc> godbyk: yeah, it is the same bug
<godbyk> jaminday: yeah. basically use it whenever you think the reader might want a reminder (link).
<humphreybc> i'm 99.99% sure
<jaminday> godbyk / nisshh: no worries, thanks
<nisshh> godbyk: why is canonical linked to like 5 times in the prologue?
<humphreybc> 5 times? really?
<nisshh> i saw atleast 3 yes
<nisshh> some right after each other in the next paragraph
<godbyk> humphreybc: installation chapter is yours to edit again.
<humphreybc> =S
 * humphreybc has his hands full with chapter 4
<artnay> oh I wish you hadn't removed those website-translations!
<godbyk> is anyone editing chapter 2 or can I work on that now?
 * humphreybc is listening to rave music to get energized and motivating about editing. F*CK YEA
<godbyk> Anyone?  Bueller? Bueller?
<humphreybc> godbyk: no
<jaminday> godbyk: nope it's all yours i think!
<humphreybc> go for it
<humphreybc> I think you should work on chapter 6 and 7 though
<godbyk> okay, I'm claiming ch 2.  no one else is allowed to touch it 'til I've committed. :-)
<godbyk> (or I'm committed.) ;-)
<humphreybc> ha
<godbyk> let me finish getting meho_r's edits in first.
<jaminday> someone's gonna crack soon i'm sure of it
<nisshh> meh, you guys do realize iv been doing small changes to about 5 different chapters
<humphreybc> hey, godbyk, you lost my awesome commit message
<godbyk> meho_r: if you're still around, do you want to jump ahead to ch 6 or 7? I think they need more work.
<jaminday> nisshh: any changes in chapter 5?
<meho_r> I'm here, but I can't do anything til tonight
<godbyk> humphreybc: that'll teach you to get in my way!  Mwuhahaha!
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> hardware? yes 1
<jaminday> nope - software management
<nisshh> iv just been adding \gls commands everywhere
<nisshh> no not yet
<meho_r> godbyk, but OK, will take a look in 8-9 hours from now.
<godbyk> meho_r: Awesome! Thanks.
<nisshh> just if you see a word thats in the glossary or has /gls around it DONT EDIT IT!
<meho_r> Should that be seen in .pdf?
 * humphreybc is the king of margin notes
<jaminday> nisshh: oops
<jaminday> i just changed one from \gls to \glspl
<jaminday> you want me to change it back?
<nisshh> jaminday: thats ok, just dont remove the command
<godbyk> meho_r: the \gls command won't be seen, but the word will be hyperlinked to the glossary entry.
<jaminday> nisshh: no worries. Not removing the command right... now.
<meho_r> So, I should ignore those? I think I won't :-P
<meho_r> BTW, I'm working on the file from yesterday
<nisshh> meho_r: just dont remove any \gls or \glspl commands
<meho_r> nisshh, don't worry, I'm working on .pdf, no editing, just notes and comments :)
<jaminday> meho_r: what are you using to add notes to a pdf? Adobe?
<meho_r> No, wine + PDF-XChange Viewer
<jaminday> ah ok. Are there any native gnome options?
<meho_r> For real notes I don't think so.
<godbyk> meho_r: I'll update the pdf before I go to bed.
<humphreybc> godbyk: btw, the \window command sucks
<godbyk> humphreybc: Why?
<meho_r> Mendeley can do it, but only locally, all notes are in Mendeleys database, not in .pdf itself.
<humphreybc> I dunno, I just don't like the quotes around it
<godbyk> meho_r: I think I'm gonna ditch Mendeley as it keeps screwing things up.
<godbyk> humphreybc: pester me about it post-writing freeze.
<meho_r> godbyk, so I should use that new .pdf for further work?
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> Someone told me I'm not supposed to work on formatting until then. :-)
<jaminday> meho_r: ah ok, that's a bummer. I was hoping there was something.
<godbyk> meho_r: Yeah. That way you'll get the latest changes from what's happening tonight.
<godbyk> If you're going to be on irc for a few hours still, I can ping you when I've updated it. Otherwise if you PM me your email address, I'll email you.
<meho_r> jaminday, there is only Okular (but KDE, not Gnome) but the other party should use Okular too to (re)view.
<jaminday> humphreybc: I've got another project for you after quickshot - a native gnome pdf viewer/editor with ability to add notes/comments
<jaminday> and that doesnt have crappy image aliasing!
<godbyk> jaminday: +1
<meho_r> jaminday, that would be great, but is it possible to implement?
<meho_r> there are problems with pdf on Linux...
<jaminday> hehe i got no idea! That's why i delegated...
<meho_r> lol
<jaminday> if it can be done in kde, surely it can be done in gnome (but better!)
<humphreybc> jaminday: heh
<humphreybc> sure UMP can handle it
<humphreybc> we can handle everything
<meho_r> Nice to see you're so optimistic about it. Good luck :D
<meho_r> (you'll need it) :D
<jaminday> hehe
<meho_r> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_PDF
<jaminday> well at least it's on the list!
<godbyk> Does GNOME/Ubuntu distinguish between 'cursor' and 'mouse pointer'?  (It should, but I want to make sure our terminology is consistent.)
<humphreybc> cursor
<meho_r> humphreybc, I though cursor is used in text editing and pointer for, well, mouse pointer/arrow :)
<godbyk> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-style-guide/2.30/desktop-terminology.html.en
<godbyk> GNOME says 'pointer'
<humphreybc> wtf
<humphreybc> everywhere I have seen has been cursor
<humphreybc> oh well
<humphreybc> pointer it is
<godbyk> I don't see 'cursor' or 'pointer' on the Ubuntu docs style guide terminology page.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/StyleGuide/StandardTerminology
<meho_r> humphreybc, Appearance... > Pointer :P
<humphreybc> godbyk: did you remove Wubi?
<godbyk> humphreybc: yep.
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> I was going to look at it
<godbyk> oh. you can read it in the commit message.
<nisshh> godbyk: the word "restore" should not be in the glossary
<nisshh> in the manual people talk about restoring grub, restoring passwords, restoring deleted files...
<godbyk> nisshh: fair enough.
<meho_r> godbyk, thanks for StandardTerminology, wasn't aware of that.
<godbyk> meho_r: The GNOME documentation style guide is pretty awesome.  We'll be stealing quite a bit from it for our own style guide.
<meho_r> godbyk, why not? :D
<meho_r> no need to invent a wheel :P
<meho_r> or hot water :D
<humphreybc> okay i've pushed my edits to chapter 4
<humphreybc> do you think software management should be before hardwarea?
<humphreybc> ie, swap 4 and 5?
<nisshh> making awesome progress on the glossary
<humphreybc> nisshh: YAY
<humphreybc> how many things are you up to now?
<nisshh> 10 complete as of r662
<humphreybc> that's good
<nisshh> i havent pulled in a while
<humphreybc> if you get 30 done by the freeze that'd be great :D
<humphreybc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTvVbWWLGpc
<nisshh> hehe, dunno about 30 but should have around 20 at least
<nisshh> hehe, thats an awesome beer ad
<nisshh> freeze is tommorrow night yea?
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> well
<humphreybc> it'll be thursday for us in aus/nz
<humphreybc> thursday at 1pm for me
<IlyaHaykinson> i'm removing some of the stuff that's commented out of the security chapter
<IlyaHaykinson> there's a lot there
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> Ilya, how much time do you have?
<godbyk> how many hours 'til writing freeze?
<IlyaHaykinson> not much at all
<IlyaHaykinson> i have a huge project at work. so i'm doing manual work on borrowed sleep time
<humphreybc> godbyk: ugh... about 26
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: okay
<godbyk> When the time is midnight I never know if that means the beginning of the day or the end of the day. :)
<IlyaHaykinson> sorry, wish it could be easier.
<humphreybc> 0000 is midnight, 1200 is midday
<IlyaHaykinson> i'll have a lot more time after April 21st :-)
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> (when most of the work has been done... convenient, yes?)
<nisshh> what the? i just found a major typo, in lucid its "Ubuntu Software Centre" but in the manual people have called it "Ubuntu Software Center"!?!?
<humphreybc> hahahahahaahahaha
<IlyaHaykinson> nisshh: where? i'll fix it, about to push anyways
<humphreybc> lmao
 * ubuntujenkins nnnnnnnoooooooooo the live cd build is failing
<IlyaHaykinson> oh. in lucid
<IlyaHaykinson> itself.
<IlyaHaykinson> hehe
<godbyk> No!
<humphreybc> nisshh: that's a locale thing.
<godbyk> It's Software Center in US English.
<humphreybc> because you're in Aussie
<godbyk> Stop changing it.
<nisshh> chapter 5
<humphreybc> it's spelt Centre.
<humphreybc> but in America it's spelt Center.
<IlyaHaykinson> heh. near where i live we have some place called "Theatre Center"
<nisshh> far out
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: okay that's nuts
<nisshh> same with me
<humphreybc> nisshh: don't fret, that's how it's meant to be
<nisshh> i have a shopping center
<humphreybc> anyway I was going to say something important
<humphreybc> (everything I say is important, but this is slightly more so)
<humphreybc> oh I won't be at the meeting this weekend btw
<nisshh> humphreybc: so what the hell do i put in the glossary?
<humphreybc> nisshh: Center.
<nisshh> center or centre
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> Ubuntu Software Center
<jaminday> I'll have to remember that
<jaminday> looks weird to me
<jaminday> Center...
<humphreybc> yeah cos we're aussies and NZers, we do british spelling
<nisshh> darn brits!
<nisshh> :)
<humphreybc> godbyk: maybe it'd be a good idea to do a find and replace for Center
<jaminday> Ever noticed how you US spellers put a 'z' in everything...
<jaminday> I have
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> humphreybc: I did that once. I'll have to do it again.
<godbyk> There are a lot of -ise words in the manual that should be -ize, too.
<jaminday> godbyk: maybe wait till i finish looking at chapter 5 as i'll probably fix most as i go
<humphreybc> if you wish to say something important, once that important thing has been said, the importance will become changed
<godbyk> jaminday: cool
<jaminday> hehe
 * humphreybc has forgotten what he was going to say, must not have been that important then
<jaminday> godbyk: yeah i've had to stop myself so many times from writing -ise
<godbyk> Oh, great. humphreybc's losing it!
<humphreybc> godbyk: correction, has lost it
<godbyk> Also, Whilst -> While.  Sorry. :)
<jaminday> speaking of center vs centre, the screenshot in chapter 5 of the Software Centre (Center) is spelt 'Centre'
<jaminday> how many times can i say center in one centernce
<nisshh> lol
<godbyk> jaminday: yeah, I mentioned that to one of the quickshot guys. guess it hasn't been fixed yet.
<jaminday> ah ok
<nisshh> ok im just testing my changes then im going to push my changes
<jaminday> nisshh: ok - i might pull when your done before i make any more changes just in case
<nisshh> jaminday: ok
 * humphreybc is going to watch an episode of american dad to calm down a bit
<jaminday> good humphreybc, good boy
 * nisshh says american dad would excite him, not calm him down
 * nisshh says the computer calms him
<jaminday> humphreybc: perhaps you should watch Anne of Green Gables or something
<humphreybc> hahahaha
<nisshh> omg, the manual takes literally 5 mins to compile on my computer
<nisshh> slow heap of crap
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> yeah it's crazy long now to compile
<meho_r> jaminday, I understand -ize, but why "CustomiZe"? :D
<meho_r> with capital Z
<meho_r> (happened once) :D
<jaminday> meho_r: really??
 * nisshh wants a quad core i7 soooo badly!
<meho_r> Really :D
<jaminday> whoever wrote that must be really patriotic
<jaminday> they love their american 'z's
<nisshh> finally!
<godbyk> yeah, I just fixed that.
<nisshh> humphreybc ok make that 14 entries finished
<nisshh> ok im going to pull now
<jaminday> nisshh: pull or push?
<nisshh> pull, then push
<jaminday> ah
<nisshh> ahhhhhhh, conflicts!
<artnay> someone should add to prerequisites page that default installation needs po4a (and build-essential to compile tex live) in order to compile the manual
<IlyaHaykinson> artnay: run pkgs/install-pkgs.sh
<IlyaHaykinson> which should install everything you need
<artnay> IlyaHaykinson: that didn't do the trick for me last week, maybe it's been updated since then
<godbyk> artnay: it should install po4a.
<nisshh> ok pushing now
<godbyk> it won't install make, though.
<jaminday> nisshh: Are you doing a glossary entry for 'server'?
<nisshh> yes
<godbyk> I've added it to the list of prereqs and will push it in a few minutes.
<jaminday> Ok, i'll add the tag then.
<nisshh> ok pushed my changes
<nisshh> someone broke make again
 * jaminday looks at godbyk suspiciously
<nisshh> it says the \menuitem command is obsolete use the \menu command instead
 * IlyaHaykinson could be the culprit, hang on, fixing
<IlyaHaykinson> old habits die hard. repushing in 1 min
 * jaminday apologiSes to godbyk
 * godbyk glares at jaminday.
 * nisshh laughs
 * jaminday uses his massive 'S' to safely reflect godbyk's glare
<IlyaHaykinson> oh, such fun in the security chapter.
<IlyaHaykinson> "you may wish to encrypt your sensitive data ... by encrypting it"
<jaminday> lol
<jaminday> humphreybc would like that sentence
<artnay> so when will the website translations be implemented? would like to check how those translations work on an actual page
<nisshh> lol, thats awesome, i really want to know who put that in
<godbyk> artnay: You can see them at http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/
<artnay> godbyk: ok, thanks. how often will that be updated?
<jaminday> ok all, i'm gonna go have some dessert with my wife, then watch an episode of boston legal, then come back and keep working till I go to bed!
<godbyk> artnay: I'm not sure how often they pull the new translations.
<nisshh> ilya: are you going to push the make fix yet?
<godbyk> Okay.. who touched chapter 2?
<nisshh> i did
<nisshh> just a bit
<godbyk> Bad nisshh! Bad!
<godbyk> :-)
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> shouldnt have done anything bad
<godbyk> Now I have to resolve some conflict.
<IlyaHaykinson> nisshh: i'm running make to make sure i don't have another break
<nisshh> i seriously only changed 1 line
<IlyaHaykinson> but this PC is slow, so i'll push as soon as it's done
<nisshh> IlyaHaykinson: sure
<nisshh> awww no more linux on the ps3
<godbyk> nisshh: more like four lines. :)
<IlyaHaykinson> i'm removing the (two) mentions of GNU/Linux
<IlyaHaykinson> inthe manual.
<IlyaHaykinson> making it just Linux
<IlyaHaykinson> nisshh: pushed
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> godbyk: then it wasnt me! :)
<godbyk> gah!
<godbyk> and now I have diverged branches.
<godbyk> shoot me.
<godbyk> finally pushed.
<godbyk> sheesh!
<nisshh> hehe
<godbyk> Who's working on which chapters now?
<godbyk> (So I don't stomp on anyone's toes.)
<IlyaHaykinson> i am doing light touches in Learning More
<IlyaHaykinson> but really i should be doing light touches to my pillow
<nisshh> im just going to add new items to the glossary and add descriptions for them
<nisshh> the rest ill do tommorrow
<godbyk> Okay
<godbyk> I'm going to run through and mark up the acronyms, then.
<nisshh> godbyk: ok
<TommyBrunn> I'm working on the Swedish translation of the website, and I have a question regarding what to translate and what not to.
<TommyBrunn> Oh wait, nevermind.
<godbyk> TommyBrunn: Figure it out?
<TommyBrunn> I was wondering whether to replace &#8217; with the ascii equivalent. But then I realized that I don't even need that symbol in the Swedish translation.
<godbyk> TommyBrunn: What is that symbol and where do you see it in the manual?
<TommyBrunn> "Getting Started with Ubuntu %version% is a free, comprehensive beginner&#8217;s guide for the Ubuntu operating system."
<TommyBrunn> It's on the website
<IlyaHaykinson> was anyone planning on getting te command-line chapter off of aptitude and onto apt-get?
<IlyaHaykinson> if we even need it there?
<godbyk> Oh! That should be "beginner's"
<IlyaHaykinson> i feel like _all_ the online instructions are about apt-get, not aptitide, so we should use that
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I'll leave that to someone else. We should be consistent, though.
<godbyk> Same here.
<TommyBrunn> godbyk: Yeah, that's what I figured. But "Beginner's" is "nybÃ¶rjarens" in Swedish, so there's no need for the apostrophe.
<nisshh> funny thing is, i orginally had it on apt-get so communication went wrong somewhere
<IlyaHaykinson> nisshh: yeah, i remember that you had that.
<nisshh> yea, there was a discussion about it ages ago
<donri> TommyBrunn, Jag skulle sÃ¤ga "nybÃ¶rjarhandbok" eller "handbok fÃ¶r nybÃ¶rjare".
<TommyBrunn> Jo, jag hÃ¥ller med. "Handbok fÃ¶r nybÃ¶rjare" tycks vara den etablerade standarden i Ã¶versÃ¤ttningen Ã¤n sÃ¥ lÃ¤nge.
<TommyBrunn> Jag mÃ¥ste se vad de Ã¶versatt det till i manualen.
<godbyk> any vim macro experts here?
<donri> apt-get seem to be the standard and aptitude the exception, teach apt-get and it'll be familiar elsewhere. Teach aptitude and apt-get will look like something new, alien, different.
<IlyaHaykinson> donri: agreed.
<IlyaHaykinson> ok, i'm off to bed
 * IlyaHaykinson waves
 * nisshh waves back
<humphreybc> I think we're using apt-get everywhere, or should be
<godbyk> gah
<godbyk> funky merge on installation.tex
<nisshh> crap i need to eat, been on my pc for 9 hours now
<nisshh> got anouther 2 to go before i finish the glossary off for tonight
<nisshh> brb getting food and beer
<TommyBrunn> Man, translating is hard work. I just went through the entire website, and still only managed to translate maybe 70 strings out of over 200.
<humphreybc> that's what GNOME and Ubuntu recommend
<humphreybc> Debian recommends using aptitude
<humphreybc> sigh
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> didnt aptitude come from debian in the first place?
<donri> Don't they all, eh.
<nisshh> donri: hehe\
<nisshh> hehe, my 2 weeks of holidays starts this weekend
<nisshh> oh, i just remembered
<nisshh> humphreybc: ill be on holidays this weekend and in 2 weeks
<nisshh> so i cant work on the manual
<nisshh> or anything
<godbyk> could you guys check your prefs-hardware/sound.tex file and see if there is a  <<<< line toward the top of it?  (line 12)
<godbyk> which version should I keep?
<nisshh> there is, what the hell is that?
<humphreybc> doesn't that mean you can?
<humphreybc> normally holidays mean you have more time :P
<nisshh> humphreybc: no laptop and no net cafe where im going
<godbyk> Okay, I'm going to leave it for now.  someone fix it after I've committed all this crap.
<godbyk> gimme a few minutes.
<nisshh> godbyk: what the hell is all that crap there for?
<godbyk> it's because two versions were merged and someone didn't actually fix the merge.
<humphreybc> nisshh: it's a bzr merge thing
<humphreybc> godbyk destroyed it
<godbyk> bzr just says, 'here, you figure it out!'
<nisshh> lol
<nisshh> godbyk: we should call you Godbyk The Destroyer!
<godbyk> I'll take it! :)
<godbyk> I'll add it to my list of titles.
<nisshh> lol
<nisshh> brb cooking dinner
<artnay> will the string %language% be in english or could it be translated?
<artnay> We recommend that you download either the English version of <i>Getting Started with Ubuntu %version%</i> or the %language% version of <i>Getting Started with Ubuntu %available_version%</i>
<godbyk> artnay: It's a variable that will be filled in by the PHP code.
<artnay> godbyk: yes, but so far it's in English, right+
<humphreybc> i'm pretty sure my flatmate is getting high
<humphreybc> and i'm stuck writing an article :P
<TommyBrunn> Sucks to be you then.
<godbyk> artnay: It will be the name of the language in that language.
<artnay> I can translate "the english version" (englanninkielinen versio) but it will take just the english language name...
<artnay> ok, well then it will be like "country version"
<godbyk> So if you're looking at the German site, you'd see 'Deutsch' in place of %language%.
<artnay> which is a bad translation, since the proper way to say it is "suomenkielinen versio", not Finnish version
<godbyk> artnay: What language are you translating to?
<godbyk> %language% will be whatever language you're translating to.
<artnay> godbyk: yes, but in Finnish that word sould be conjugated
<artnay> otherwise it's just a bad grammar in that sentence
<artnay> and it's the same in Swedish (afai write/speak Swedish)
<artnay> just a minor annoyance
<artnay> it's totally understandable, though.
<godbyk> artnay: You can translate the phrase however you like.
<artnay> godbyk: and it will still pass the parser even if there's not enough variables?
<godbyk> I think so. I'm not sure.
<godbyk> We'll figure it out, though. :)
<artnay> ok, well i'll just drop that variable off and translate it as it should be
<godbyk> frakking conflicts.
<godbyk> so tired of bzr!
<nisshh> hehe
<artnay> godbyk: I just want the website to be translated in proper Finnish before or I'll link to it in our (l10n) next meeting
<nisshh> godbyk: you should be grateful that bzr doesnt just say ERROR! ERROR! ERROR!
<artnay> then the project will hopefully receive more love from finnish translators
<godbyk> Cool.
<godbyk> Yeah, that's what bzr effectively does sometimes.  Basically throws its hands up and say, 'Okay, *you* figure out how to merge this stuff!"
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> Aha!  It was nisshh who didn't merge the sound.tex file properly!
<nisshh> yea it conflicted
<nisshh> dunno why
<nisshh> how did i not merge it properly
<artnay> actually we've made quite a comprehensive manual in Finnish - see http://fi.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ubuntu_tutuksi - it covers most of the areas that are included in this project and more
<artnay> but maintaining it is a pita. this project would be a better for us so that we shouldn't check the facts, take screenshots etc. - we could focus on writing/translating
<godbyk> nisshh: not sure. bzr usually doesn't let you commit until it's been resolved, I thought.
<nisshh> yea it didnt
<godbyk> artnay: If you guys have stuff we're missing, you should translate it over for us.  Then you can translate it back to Finnish when we're done with it. ;-)
<nisshh> i pulled, did a commit, pushed, got an error, resolved, merged, pushed, merged, commited and pushed again
<godbyk> whoops.. didn't compile before I committed all those \acronyms.
<godbyk> let's see how many times I can misspell \acronym. :-)
<nisshh> godbyk: smooth
<godbyk> wow!
<godbyk> no errors!
<godbyk> I am a god!
<nisshh> woooo!
<jaminday> nisshh: you glossarizing "repositories"?
<nisshh> jaminday:yes
<jaminday> no worries - i'll ad \gls then
<nisshh> jaminday: no need, i do that when i add a glossary entry
<nisshh> brb dinner time
<jaminday> no prob
<nisshh> back lol
<jaminday> wow quick dinner
<nisshh> lol, eating it and typing
<jaminday> ah...
<jaminday> so the first reference to 'repositories' in chapter 5 should probably have a \gls, i'll leave it for you though when you get to it
<nisshh> jaminday: godbyks new nickname is Godbyk The Destroyer
<jaminday> nisshh: hehe - where did that come from?
<nisshh> jaminday: sure
<nisshh> i gave it to him a little while ago since he keeps breaking the branch and makefile
<nisshh> jaminday: i have to go through and add \gls commands all over the place anyway
<jaminday> hehe - i nicknamed him the 'Godfather' last night, as he is always the one that cleans everything up!
<nisshh> lol thats a good one
<nisshh> he did say he has a list
<jaminday> hehe
<godbyk> I feel like I have to abdicate that title to nisshh. :)
<nisshh> and why is that?
<godbyk> Well, you were the one who left some weird bzr merge text in the sound.tex file. :)
<nisshh> Curse you bzr!
<jaminday> hehe nisshh the destroyer works i think ;)
<godbyk> I'll also note that I'm the one who cleaned up that mess.  ;-)
<nisshh> i reckon its cool
<jaminday> lol
<jaminday> The Godfather does it again....
<nisshh> oh godbyk the janitor is it now?
<nisshh> hehe
<jaminday> Janitor is a rather large demotion
<nisshh> not since he abdicated destroyer to me
<godbyk> Okay, my eyes are getting blurry.  I think that's my cue to step away from the computer. :-)
<jaminday> yes fair enough
<godbyk> Typed \acronym a couple too many times, I think. :)
<godbyk> I'm going to read for a bit before I sleep. Feel free to ping me if anything urgent arises.
<nisshh> ok
<jaminday> no worries - i'll be around for another hour or so then hit the sack also
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> are you guys actually getting anything done?
 * humphreybc as he peers into the chatroom
 * dutchie is watching the LHC webcast
<godbyk> I \acronym'd everything.
<ubuntujenkins> the cd build keeps failing
<nisshh> yes: its contructive banter
<godbyk> And incorporated all of meho_r_'s edits.
<godbyk> dutchie: have they formed a black hole yet?
<jaminday> humphreybc: still going at chapter 5 (slowly)
<nisshh> dutchie whats LHC?
<nisshh> Linux Home Cooking?
<godbyk> Should I lie on my back in preparation for a flashforward?
<godbyk> I'm going with Large Hadron Collider.
<humphreybc> Large Hadron Collider!
<dutchie> http://webcast.cern.ch/lhcfirstphysics/
<dutchie> godbyk: NO BLACK HOLES :P
<jaminday> Lingerie Hating Cows?
 * godbyk wins!
<humphreybc> d'oh!
<godbyk> This webcast may be one of the geekiest things I watch.
<donri> I'm watching that too. :D
<nisshh> dude, nerdy
<nisshh> bot geeky
<nisshh> not*
<humphreybc> flash is so shit on Lucid
<TommyBrunn> Flash is so shit on *
<nisshh> heheeee not for meeee
<nisshh> how about html5 vids?
<TommyBrunn> Doesn't work consistently in all browsers/platforms.
<nisshh> tommybrun: nope!
<TommyBrunn> Chrome and Opera use h.264 and Firefox Ogg Theora.
<nisshh> never has, never will
<dutchie> the webcast is annoyingly laggy
 * humphreybc has work to do
<nisshh> does anyone here listen to shotofjaq?
<dutchie> the twitter accounts have already announced collisions, and nothing no there
<humphreybc> lol
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: I do why?
<ubuntujenkins> brb
<humphreybc> I might go to bed now
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: you'll need the PPA and LiveCD for quickshot to be working and available for download by Thursday :)
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I know it should be done tonight we are frezzing quickshot tonight
<ubuntujenkins> I am having live cd trouble
<humphreybc> wicked :)
<humphreybc> okay
<ubuntujenkins> nn o/
<humphreybc> I'm writing up announcements
<ubuntujenkins> the live cd will be avaible on this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/getquickshot
<humphreybc> okay
<ubuntujenkins> ppa here https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-release
<humphreybc> if daker comes in, get him to add that stuff to the website
<ubuntujenkins> I will do
<ubuntujenkins> there is no stuff on that wiki page but it will be by tonight
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> stable beams now, dutchie.
<dutchie> they've collided already
<dutchie> http://twitter.com/CERN/status/11303121425 etc etc
<godbyk> dutchie: right, but they've stabilized the beams now and collided again at a higher energy.
<humphreybc> kk, night everyone
<godbyk> I'm heading to bed, too.  G'night!
<dutchie> night
<godbyk> dutchie: If the universe is going to collapse into a micro-blackhole, ping me so I've got a heads-up. ;-)
<dutchie> :P
<ubuntujenkins> night godbyk
 * semioticrobotic is home sick from work today
<meho_r> Never gave it a thought before, but which is default shell for 10.04, bash or dash?
<dutchie> meho_r: $ /bin/sh
<dutchie> $ echo $SHELL
<dutchie> /bin/bash
<dutchie> $ ls -l /bin/sh
<dutchie> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2010-03-05 23:26 /bin/sh -> dash
<dutchie> going for the confusion factor there ;)
<meho_r> So, what is conclusion for the ubuntu-manual: bash or dash?
<meho_r> I AM confused :D
<dutchie> dash
<dutchie> I think the $SHELL got inherited from my bash session
<meho_r> OK, I'm gonna mark bash for checking out and leave you guys to discuss it :_)
<dutchie> go for dash
<dutchie> ^^ official dutchie opinion
<meho_r> :-)
<donri> http://file.status.net/identica/sandersch-20100330T113810-drklyru.jpeg
<donri> LHC runs on Ubuntu... kinda.
<dutchie> love the way there is a rhythmbox playing icon there
<Red_HamsterX> How did I miss a discussion about moving to dash?
<dutchie> Ubuntu's been using dash for years
<Red_HamsterX> I've somehow managed to never notice, then.
<donri> dash isn't the default though, is it?
<donri> Just is the symlink for /bin/sh for scripts.
<Red_HamsterX> That would make a lot more sense.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: in the dictionary file do options have to be on the next line
<ubuntujenkins> also any idea why firefox about:home doesn't work?
<Red_HamsterX> It doesn't?
<Red_HamsterX> Also, yes, every token needs to be separated by a line.
<Red_HamsterX> ls
<Red_HamsterX> -lh
<Red_HamsterX> *
<ubuntujenkins> I tried the firefox one on the live disk and it didn't work
<Red_HamsterX> Odd... It works fine here...
<Red_HamsterX> I'll start testing in about an hour.
<ubuntujenkins> ok I will double check it
<ubuntujenkins> I am just going to make some dictionary chnages
<ubuntujenkins> also why for dome windows and not others does it say Resize the window so it fills the screen, if necessary. Be sure it is NOT maximized
<Red_HamsterX> Because of the references you provided.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll explain in a moment.
<ubuntujenkins> ok
<Red_HamsterX> We can't actually maximize them because it creates ugly inconsistencies in the manual.
<Red_HamsterX> Most windows have a white body area.
<Red_HamsterX> When maximized, the borders disappear.
<Red_HamsterX> Whien screencapped, it looks like their content is floating.
<Red_HamsterX> screencapped and PDFed*
<Red_HamsterX> I wrote some new code that tries to set their dimensions equal to the working space in a default Lucid setup.
<ubuntujenkins> ok makes sense
<Red_HamsterX> I'm not sure if I could word that line in a better way.
<Red_HamsterX> I tried to use simple words, since it is important, but...
<ubuntujenkins> I read it and though why not maximise it then?
<Red_HamsterX> In any case, the reason why it doesn't apply to everything is because a lot of windows, based on your reference material, are not maximized by default, and gain no benefit to visibility through maximization. (Their contents are perfectly viewable at their default sizes)
<Red_HamsterX> Maximizing removes borders.
<Red_HamsterX> Borders are important.
<Red_HamsterX> They maintain consistency in the manual.
<ubuntujenkins> ok thats fine i thought i maximized everything possible, I have updating the ppa, I have to have my tea, will be on afterwards
<Red_HamsterX> I'll update the server.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<dutchie> 6
<dutchie> bah
<ubuntujenkins> evening manual team
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<Red_HamsterX> Still busy with other stuff. :(
<ubuntujenkins> ok no problem
<ubuntujenkins> evening titeuf_87
<titeuf_87> heyas
<titeuf_87> How're things?
<ubuntujenkins> if you have a new version of quickly then it it now quickly design not quickly glade
<ubuntujenkins> I spent all day finding a build error in the cd, I am now tweaking the ui here and there
<titeuf_87> The cd works now?
<ubuntujenkins> There are a few errors with programs launching, nautilus ~ doesn't work for some reason. The cd does work just got to squeeze the release of quickshot on it
<Red_HamsterX> Lemme know when there's a functional CD build so we can try screencapping the installation process.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm going to step through everything else under English now.
<Red_HamsterX> Did Firefox start working properly?
<ubuntujenkins> I can't understand why firefox didn't work in a virtual machine but it worked on my real machine
<Red_HamsterX> o.0
<titeuf_87> That's really weird.
<Red_HamsterX> Very weird...
<Red_HamsterX> What's the next most important language after English?
<Red_HamsterX> (Or the one most likely to cause problems)
<dutchie> British English
<Red_HamsterX> titeuf_87, do we differentiate between American English and British English for screencaps?
<ubuntujenkins> Galician,	German
<titeuf_87> I thought we said not to.
<ubuntujenkins> are the top two most translated
<ubuntujenkins> I think we said not to
<Red_HamsterX> I thought so, too.
<ubuntujenkins> all on the same page
<ubuntujenkins> the ppa is uptodate as per rev 176
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/176 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 176
<Red_HamsterX> I'll do some testing with German, Russian, and Arabic after confirming that everything seems to work for English.
<Red_HamsterX> (I'd do French, but titeuf can handle that at least as well as I can)
<ubuntujenkins> launching, nautilus ~ doesn't work for some reason
<Red_HamsterX> Under a VM or everywhere?
<Red_HamsterX> I'll try it now.
<titeuf_87> I can do French, Dutch, South-African and whatever other language closely resembles those.
<ubuntujenkins> everywhere Red_HamsterX
<Red_HamsterX> This is just testing, not final capping.
<titeuf_87> I can try out on my laptop instead of just in a vm, so we can try it out under "more real" hardware.
<Red_HamsterX> In production, I can probably handle Japanese if we're having trouble getting volunteers.
<ubuntujenkins> We also have a permission issue with the install screenshots, there are two ways around it, allow the user to take screenshots in either the ubuntu user or quickshot user. Or when setting up quickshot in the ubuntu user add it to the sudo list
<titeuf_87> Ah need to be root to run the installer?
<titeuf_87> Well that makes sense.
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<Red_HamsterX> I'd probably take the sudo path.
<ubuntujenkins> same
<ubuntujenkins> looking at it now
<Red_HamsterX> It'd save the trouble of getting users to log out.
<Red_HamsterX> And it might allow for more flexibility in the future.
<ubuntujenkins> for security we will only add it to sudo if on the live cd
<Red_HamsterX> 1.0.0 will have all of this stuff bundled in a special config file or something anyway.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, I see the problem with nautilus ~.
<ubuntujenkins> what ?
<titeuf_87> What is it?
<Red_HamsterX> I just need to do one thing to test this idea...
<titeuf_87> Heh, I can't use quickly anymore with quickshot.
<titeuf_87> ERROR: Template ubuntu-application does not exist.
<ubuntujenkins> I told you already titeuf_87 do quickly design
<titeuf_87> Yeah I know, except that I need a newer version of quickly for that.
<ubuntujenkins> O sorry I thought you had the newer version
<Red_HamsterX> Yep. It's assuming '~' is actually a filename, since it isn't being expanded by the shell.
<titeuf_87> no worries ubuntujenkins, can still manually open everything after all
<Red_HamsterX> I could pass every parameter through os.path.expanduser...
<Red_HamsterX> That shouldn't cause any problems.
<ubuntujenkins> I have just fixed another error with the user terminal
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, no! Branches diversed somehow!
<Red_HamsterX> diverged*
<Red_HamsterX> Want me to send you a patch to fix the ~ thing or should I try merging?
<ubuntujenkins> do bzr uncommit
<ubuntujenkins> then do a pull
<Red_HamsterX> I wasn't aware of uncommit.
<Red_HamsterX> Thanks.
<ubuntujenkins> once you have pushed i will commit next
<Red_HamsterX> Pushed. Waiting for it to be accpeted.
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, go.
<Red_HamsterX> nautilus is working now, but it wasn't auto-maximized, unfortunately. I'm going to add the Firefox workaround.
<Red_HamsterX> (It probably forks)
<titeuf_87> That's probably like gedit then: it doesn't maximize when you launched gedit before quickshot.
<ubuntujenkins> rev 179 pushed guys
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/179 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 179
<Red_HamsterX> Becuase the new gedit process just communicates with the old one.
<Red_HamsterX> And Nautilus is providing Gnome's desktop icons and stuff.
<jbicha> I downloaded the source code w/ git but what program should I use to actually edit the thing?
<titeuf_87> Don't think we could do anything around that?
<ubuntujenkins> jbicha: what did you download quickshot or the manual?
<jbicha> the manual
<Red_HamsterX> My workaround is the "=maximize-workaround=" key, which takes a process name.
<jbicha> I've never worked w/ latex before
<Red_HamsterX> Everything returned by 'pidof' is passed through the maximize function.
<Red_HamsterX> It's a hack, but it seems to work.
<titeuf_87> For nautilus too?
<Red_HamsterX> Except for Nautilus... For some reason, it seems to be blocking forever when I make the call.
<Red_HamsterX> Or something.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm looking into it now.
<ubuntujenkins> jbicha: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors is what you need but be aware we are not adding content. You can edit with gedit are you one of the offical editors? As i think they have a procces
<jbicha> & I used bzr branch to get the code but how I do update to the most recent reversion
<ubuntujenkins> jbicha: bzr pull
<jbicha> no, I'm not official, I just wanted to proofread & maybe fill in a missing gap and thought it would be more useful than trying to report bugs for minor stuff
<ubuntujenkins> jbicha: it would be best to file bugs as not to cause conflicts, only one editor is allowed to work on a section at a time
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, I see why it's failing.
<jbicha> oh, that sounds complicated
<Red_HamsterX> It's because I'm made of durr and fail.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm splitting on newlines, not spaces.
<ubuntujenkins> jbicha: your help is very much apreciated, filing bugs is the safest way to help edit
<Red_HamsterX> Commiting change.
<jbicha> ubuntujenkins: thanks, gedit works fine
<ubuntujenkins> jbicha: do you have the right bug page?
<Red_HamsterX> Committed q180.
<jbicha> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual ?
<ubuntujenkins> jbicha: nope there is a differnent one just finding it
<ubuntujenkins> jbicha: http://ubuntu-manual.org/?bugs
<jbicha> the google docs form?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<ubuntujenkins> whats left to do with quickshot?
<Red_HamsterX> Just testing, I think.
<ubuntujenkins> shall i update the ppa?
<Red_HamsterX> And making sure it works with godbyk's server.
<titeuf_87> for the live cd, shouldn't we change the default server?
<ubuntujenkins> GODBYK !!!
<ubuntujenkins> when was it different?
<Red_HamsterX> We should change the default server in the PPA when we're sure everything's working, too.
<Red_HamsterX> When was what different?
<ubuntujenkins> do we know the link for the server?
<Red_HamsterX> We know it now.
<Red_HamsterX> It just hasn't been tested.
<ubuntujenkins> can you make the change then i will build the package
<Red_HamsterX> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/
<ubuntujenkins> where is it changed?
<Red_HamsterX> We should leave the package pointing at my system for now, since we still need to do tests with other languages.
<ubuntujenkins> ok i will update the ppa all work updated guys?
<Red_HamsterX> Lemme test the Nautilus thing again.
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, that fixed the bug.
<Red_HamsterX> I don't know of anything I have left to change at the moment.
<titeuf_87> Except for testing and fixing all the bugs, I think we got everything for this release.
<ubuntujenkins> ok starting the ppa update
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: hello
<humphreybc> morning :)
<dutchie> evening
<humphreybc> what's up?
<dutchie> I'm javascripting http://www.joshh.co.uk/ up
<ubuntujenkins> well can you all test quickshot in about 10 minutes please
<ubuntujenkins> right just waiting for quickshot to be buit by launchpad
<humphreybc> fingers crossed huh
<humphreybc> godbyk: when we hit beta, i'll get you to put up http://ubuntu-manual.org/ubuntu-manual-beta.pdf
 * ubuntujenkins still building...
 * ubuntujenkins built just waiting for it to be published
<Red_HamsterX> Are we giving users a fake account for Evolution?
<ubuntujenkins> ok its not published in the ppa yet not sure how long it takes but this is a launchpad link to the package https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-daily/+build/1592814/+files/quickshot_0.0.8-quickshot+201003301854+180_all.deb
<ubuntujenkins> I can do a backup file for every one to use, or just tell them to type quickshot@ubuntu-manual.org
<Red_HamsterX> I'm asking because I can't think of a way to get the password prompt to work...
<ubuntujenkins> it works if you have a fake account,
<Red_HamsterX> I was trying a fake server.
<ubuntujenkins> QUICKSHOT is IN the ppa
<Red_HamsterX> Does ubuntu-manual.org have an IMAP service?
<ubuntujenkins> it works if you do a real server, yep
<ubuntujenkins> imap.gmail.com smtp.gmail.com
<ubuntujenkins> use ssl
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, and just give it the display name of quickshot@...
<Red_HamsterX> I don't want to write another guide on how to set up e-mail. I'm not trying to explain how to use SSL in one line. =P
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> Quickshot guys, are we all ready for people to start downloading it and using it by Thursday?
<ubuntujenkins> I will do a back up file if you like copy it to the users home and tell them to use it
<humphreybc> Are there instructions on how to use it somewhere on our wiki?
<ubuntujenkins> i am yet to type it, had cd issues which took priority
<humphreybc> fair enough
<humphreybc> you've got another 28 hours or so
<ubuntujenkins> I will be done
<ubuntujenkins> I could do with a button from daker
<ubuntujenkins> if we come across no problems quickshot program might be done tonight, PLEASE test it EVERYONR
<ubuntujenkins> anyone know how to get the short command for adding a ppa?
<titeuf_87> I'm going to try from Karmic, as I don't have Lucid, so I'll skip the Lucid-specific screenshots.
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: sure
<humphreybc> i'd like to test the Live CD
<titeuf_87> Me too for the Live CD, that would be perfect.
<titeuf_87> Especially as when running quickshot now it complains that I'm not on Lucid and I can't use it.
<humphreybc> ha!
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, it should be usable on a normal lucid live cd too right?
<luke-quickshot> I have a bug!
<Red_HamsterX> For Empathy, do we really want to the user to click "I want a new account" instead of "I'll enter my account details now"?
<Red_HamsterX> Er...
<Red_HamsterX> NEver mind.
<Red_HamsterX> Looking at the reference, it'd obvious the name's just off.
<luke-quickshot> we need to stop nm-applet before you log into the quickshot user and then start it when the quickshot user logs in
<humphreybc> luke-quickshot: howcome?
<luke-quickshot> humphreybc, you can only have one instance of nm-applet running
<humphreybc> ah
<Red_HamsterX> I'm not seeing why a second would need to be started.
<luke-quickshot> you can't get network screenshots in the quickshot user with out stopping the first instance
<Red_HamsterX> LiveCD-specific issue?
<luke-quickshot> no issue on ubuntu in general
<luke-quickshot> tomboy launches wrong
<luke-quickshot> yet to test the live cd
<luke-quickshot> gwibber the program is broken again
<Red_HamsterX> What's wrong about how tomboy launches?
<humphreybc> this is fun, bugs pouring in just before final release :P
<Red_HamsterX> And how can we fix it?
<humphreybc> don't forget to update the "About" dialog box, change the developers to you guys and the version number. Tommy and I don't really deserve any credit for this xD
<luke-quickshot> the bluetooth instructions are wrong, the compare screen has no icon
<luke-quickshot> Red_HamsterX, look at the dictionay i put a fix in but must have done it wrong
<Red_HamsterX> It seems to be launching fine here.
<Red_HamsterX> I just need to update the steps.
<Red_HamsterX> (Which I'm doing as I capture each screenshot)
<luke-quickshot> is it the same as tomboy --search at the command line does?
<Red_HamsterX> Yes.
<luke-quickshot> doesn't here strange
<titeuf_87> Just finished downloading Lucid now, going to burn it and try quickshot from the livecd then instead.
<luke-quickshot> cool I can't send you the cd until it is on godbyks server
<luke-quickshot> brasero is not launching
<luke-quickshot> there is no sample for display settings comfimation
<luke-quickshot> the tempoary capture file isn't deleted if you close the preview window
<luke-quickshot> yelp takes FOR EVER :-P
<humphreybc> haha it sure does
 * humphreybc is going to bugtest the hell out of quickshot later today
<Red_HamsterX> brasero's working fine here.
<luke-quickshot> not here just tried again
<Red_HamsterX> Have you tried 'brasero --empty' in a shell?
<luke-quickshot> we need a minimize button and border on the capture window
<humphreybc> okay i'm off
<Red_HamsterX> That'd be helpful.
<humphreybc> i'll talk later
<Red_HamsterX> I'll look into that once I finish screencapping what I can.
<luke-quickshot> an update has removed brasero ... very strange
<Red_HamsterX> I'll probably have to do the real capping on my mini with the LiveCD, though. I lack WiFi and Bluetooth on any devices I can spare.
<luke-quickshot> The blue took needs to be changed to left click
<luke-quickshot> thats my fault
<Red_HamsterX> Blue took?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh.
<Red_HamsterX> Fixed.
<Red_HamsterX> Not fixed in the .texes, though.
<luke-quickshot> I will fix it in the manual
<luke-quickshot> can you make the bluetooth bottom border lower please
<luke-quickshot> of the cropping
<Red_HamsterX> Sure.
<Red_HamsterX> How much lower?
<luke-quickshot> erm let me work it out
<luke-quickshot> 20 pixels should do it
<Red_HamsterX> Ah. I see the problem with the properties reference.
<Red_HamsterX> You wrote 'comfirm'.
<Red_HamsterX> Can you change that in the manual, too?
<luke-quickshot> which bit? I can change it
<Red_HamsterX> 08-display-properties-confirm
<Red_HamsterX> You have 'comfirm'
<Red_HamsterX> It doesn't really matter either way, though.
<Red_HamsterX> There are enough other minor inconsistencies that nobody will care.
<luke-quickshot> I will change it in the manual
<Red_HamsterX> (We can apply better standards next time. It's not like these filenames show up in the PDFs anyway)
<Red_HamsterX> Successfully captured 34 screenshots using defaults.
<Red_HamsterX> Three screenshots are uncapturable due to a lack of hardware, eight are limited by lack of CD, and one is impossible because I fail at Gmail.
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: yes it should work not sure if it has pybebel, i was in the other user
<Red_HamsterX> Overall, I'd say we're looking at success.
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/
<titeuf_87> Laptop just finished booting with it, we'll find out soon enough.
<ubuntujenkins> right i am going to fix spelling bugs
<Red_HamsterX> I'll look at decorating the capture window, unless someone else already knows what needs to be done.
<ubuntujenkins> I can do it Red_HamsterX
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, how do you install the quickshot ppa again?
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-daily is the ppa just add it to software suorces
<ubuntujenkins> right fixed the spelling bugs in the manual
<jbicha> ok, I'm done reporting bugs for tonight, the manual looks really good for first release :-)
<ubuntujenkins> thanks jbicha
<daker> hi @all
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<daker> Red_HamsterX, you are working with ubuntujenkins on Quickshot ?
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, we're doing testing now.
<ubuntujenkins> can I have a download button please daker
<titeuf_87> When making the quickshot user, we should try to add it to the list of users that are allowed to sudo right then?
<ubuntujenkins> it should do it already
<daker> ubuntujenkins, sure
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah. Probably just an >> into the sudoers file.
<ubuntujenkins> no i set it to do it already
<ubuntujenkins> success = os.system("gksudo \"useradd --shell /bin/bash -m -p " + passwd + " quickshot\" && gksudo \"adduser quickshot admin\"")
<titeuf_87> ah and that was in the latest ppa already too?
<Red_HamsterX> Or you could add it that way.
<ubuntujenkins> I am sure it was
<titeuf_87> ah in that case it doesn't work from the livecd
<daker> ubuntujenkins, i gave a suggest concerning Screenshots scale
<daker> suggestion*
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: spotted the problem
<Red_HamsterX> Wouldn't scaling be godbyk's area?
<ubuntujenkins> yep it is
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, what is it?
<jbicha> what in the world is http://ubuntu.securedservers.com ? it's mentioned in the manual
<Red_HamsterX> Looks like a repository.
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: the user utilities file had the wrong option on it should have read it os.environ["USER"] == "ubuntu":
<Red_HamsterX> A package repository, I mean.
<jbicha> I think it would be better if a different one were picked, someone may think that is more secure than the other repos
<ubuntujenkins> jbicha: file a bug :-)
<ubuntujenkins> Quickshot guys: I can't get the decoration to work it is already set to be decorated
<ubuntujenkins> on the capture window
<daker> ubuntujenkins, i have a suggestion concerning Screenshots scale !!!!
<titeuf_87> try to find something like popup window in the properties of the window
<titeuf_87> and change it to normal
<ubuntujenkins> daker: go a head but that is mostly godyks job
<Red_HamsterX> What's the window's name?
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87's suggestion fixed it
<Red_HamsterX> 'Kay.
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects$ bzr branch lp:quickshot
<daker> bzr: ERROR: xmlrpc protocol error connecting to https://xmlrpc.edge.launchpad.net/bazaar/: 503 Service Unavailable
<titeuf_87> if you click on next on the partition setup screen, does it actually set up the partitions already too?
<Red_HamsterX> Who's uploading 'nl' screencaps?
<titeuf_87> I am
<Red_HamsterX> Ah.
<Red_HamsterX> If you click next while telling Ubuntu to use the whole disk, it should automatically configure everything.
<Red_HamsterX> Of course, whatever you had on the system will be lost.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm assuiming you're VirtualBoxing it or something.
<titeuf_87> Nope, from my laptop, which I use at work so I'm going to stop the installation screenshots now.
<titeuf_87> Which is a shame cause lucid looks really sexy on it :(
<daker> ubuntujenkins, I suggest that we put the scale in the server side, and we don't have to scale screenshots with Latex (PHP can handle it)
<ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: if i set the window to deletable no that should remove the close button right?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: if that works then, i don't mind it would need to be kevins call on it, laytex appears to do a good job
<titeuf_87> I would guess so, but better double check.
<ubuntujenkins> well it doesn't :-)
<daker> ubuntujenkins, i made up a script with php , the result is very good than the latex scale's
<Red_HamsterX> I'd be more inclined to trust LaTeX to rescale things than PHP.
<titeuf_87> Red_HamsterX, any reason why the windows can't be maximized?
<Red_HamsterX> Missing borders. :(
<Red_HamsterX> Consider Firefox on the Google homepage.
<titeuf_87> Ah ok.
<Red_HamsterX> The body would just be floating on the PDFs.
<humphreybc> hey, python people, quick question. If I have a string "banana" what's the easiest way to reverse it?
<ubuntujenkins> ananab
<Red_HamsterX> print reversed("banana")
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: :)
<humphreybc> thanks
<Red_HamsterX> Er...
<daker> humphreybc, hi
<Red_HamsterX> Wait. That only almost works.
<Red_HamsterX> It returns an iterator.
<humphreybc> I knew there would be an easy way to do it... I think my lab is meant to do it using for loops and indexes and stuff
<Red_HamsterX> ''.join(reversed('cheese'))
<ubuntujenkins> daker: argue it out with kevin and ben
<daker> oki
<titeuf_87> >>> "banana"[::-1]
<titeuf_87> 'ananab'
<humphreybc> so, print join(reversed(s)) ?
<humphreybc> (where s is my string)
<Red_HamsterX> ''.join*
<Red_HamsterX> '' is the glue token.
<Red_HamsterX> But titeuf's solution is really nice.
<Red_HamsterX> I didn't know slicing could work like that.
<humphreybc> so I just have print s[::-1] ?
<titeuf_87> Neither did I! But google did.
<Red_HamsterX> Yep.
<humphreybc> let's see if it passes my doctests
<Red_HamsterX> Good luck explaining it, though.
<Red_HamsterX> I have no idea what that syntax means.
<Red_HamsterX> Last one being a step value?
<titeuf_87> Oh, for people better at English than me: dialogues is UK English and dialogs US one?
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, it's step.
<Red_HamsterX> Correct.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, ben ?
<humphreybc> hi daker
<daker> :)
<humphreybc> heh, my test failed, but only because it didn't return a string
<titeuf_87> We'll have one screenshot that is different then between uk and us English.
<humphreybc> so Expected 'nohtyP' got nohtyP
<humphreybc> can I make it into a string?
<Red_HamsterX> Pastebin your code.
<humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/406709/
<Red_HamsterX> It should be generating a string on Python 2.6+.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh.
<humphreybc> i'm using python 2.6, just the python package on ubuntu, not python3
<Red_HamsterX> That's easy.
<Red_HamsterX> s/print/return/
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> of course
<humphreybc> :)
 * humphreybc is new to python
<Red_HamsterX> At least you didn't try "reverse = s[::-1]".
<humphreybc> lol
<Red_HamsterX> I'd have to smack you if you did.
<godbyk> Awake again.
<humphreybc> well, the line turns pink when I do that... so i know it's a string and not going to work :P
<Red_HamsterX> Without quotes.
<Red_HamsterX> Assigning to name is the Visual Basic way of handling returns.
<ubuntujenkins> ok I am pushing changes i can't remove the close icon form the window though
<titeuf_87> Thank gods vb.net is saner now.
<Red_HamsterX> What's its name?
<Red_HamsterX> I'll take a look here.
<ubuntujenkins> capture q183 is the latest revison
<Red_HamsterX> I meant the window's name.
<humphreybc> easiest way to remove a letter from a string?
<titeuf_87> The reference screenshot for the ppa in firefox doesn't show any window borders
<Red_HamsterX> .replace()
<ubuntujenkins> capture is the window name
<humphreybc> replace with a "" ?
<Red_HamsterX> I'll replace it with my screenshot, titeuf_87.
<Red_HamsterX> "happy".replace('p
<Red_HamsterX> "happy".replace('p', '') -> 'hay'
<titeuf_87> I won't have the time to try out every other screenshot too as I need to go in a little bit.
<titeuf_87> Anything that's still untested or mostly untested?
<Red_HamsterX> The others match well enough that there should be no confusion.
<titeuf_87> Except for the networkmanager applet and the sudo thing I didn't have any problems.
<Red_HamsterX> I've tested everything I could under en. It's fine as far as I can tell.
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: It's working, but instead of just removing the letter it's removing the entire string. ie, remove 'i' from Mississippi ... Expecting 'Mssssp' got nothing
<Red_HamsterX> You need to return the result.
<Red_HamsterX> return x.replace(y, z)
<humphreybc> lol
<Red_HamsterX> It doesn't modify x. It creates a new string based on x.
<humphreybc> bloody return
<humphreybc> yay :)
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot: do we know why there is no sample for display settings comfimation
<Red_HamsterX> Because you don't spell it right.
<Red_HamsterX> I fixed that problem.
<ubuntujenkins> o yea
<Red_HamsterX> And then you fixed the manual/
<Red_HamsterX> =P
<ubuntujenkins> cool, i have fixed the sudo thing
<ubuntujenkins> we need to sort the nm thing
<Red_HamsterX> Ooh. New Glade is nice.
<Red_HamsterX> So much better than the one that used to crash every time I clicked anything.
<titeuf_87> I'm going to play more with quickshot tomorrow if I don't get home too late.
<titeuf_87> Good luck everyone, I'm going to bed.
<Red_HamsterX> Thank you very much for your help, titeuf_87. :)
<titeuf_87> Wished I could help more! But silly Internet outage yesterday kind of ruined my planning.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks titeuf_87 have a fun confrence
<ubuntujenkins> from #glade3  i.e. gtk_window_set_deletable() not guaranteed to work everywhere
<titeuf_87> Oh it'll be, hearing all day long how great .NET is and how innovating MS is.
<Red_HamsterX> But it's so true!
<ubuntujenkins> from #glade3 sure its not a WM problem ?
<Red_HamsterX> Windows 7's features are nothing like those found in OS X!
<titeuf_87> At least it has free food. Anyways, bye!
<ubuntujenkins> o/
<Red_HamsterX> Enjoy the food.
<Red_HamsterX> I don't see a close button on the screenshot prompt.
<Red_HamsterX> (Running from bzr)
<Red_HamsterX> But it isn't always-on-top anymore.
 * humphreybc was just showing lab demonstrator quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: I looking at a possible fix for the close button thing
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, it's... fine here...
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: so is the daily build working in the PPA?
<Red_HamsterX> We could probably just make its Destroy() a no-op or something.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: it is aparently window manager dependant
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: yes a few bugs but nothing you should knotice on a quick go
<humphreybc> neat
<humphreybc> I just tried it then but there are no screenshots to test on
<Red_HamsterX> You can redo any existing screencaps, if you want.
<Red_HamsterX> Unless you mean the list is blank.
<humphreybc> there aren't any in the list
<Red_HamsterX> Did you give it a few seconds?
<humphreybc> only a few... does it work behind a proxy?
<Red_HamsterX> I've got a fix for the not-always-on-top thing, ubuntujenkins. I'll add it in a moment.
<Red_HamsterX> It should.
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<Red_HamsterX> It's just an HTTP GET for thje client.
<humphreybc> oh perhaps the proxy wasn't set up for the new user
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/get_status.php?language=en
<Red_HamsterX> If you can load that, Quickshot should work fine.
<humphreybc> ok
<humphreybc> are you going to move stuff over to godbyk's server at some point or keep it on your own?
<Red_HamsterX> It's already on his server.
<Red_HamsterX> We just haven't tested against it.
<humphreybc> cool
<Red_HamsterX> Since I need to delete stuff randomly for testing.
<humphreybc> kk
<Red_HamsterX> Pushing quickshot-185 with always-on-top fix.
<humphreybc> daker: is this for the website or for quickshot?
<daker> quickshot
<humphreybc> what do you mean screenshot scale?
<ubuntujenkins> help me i am being told to do invoking the function gtk_window_set_deletable() on the window ?
<ubuntujenkins> <tristan|afk> using whatever language that you happen to be using ?
<Red_HamsterX> I can do that, ubuntujenkins. It's trivial.
<humphreybc> daker, talk to Red_HamsterX and ubuntujenkins
<humphreybc> I'm going to do some more quickshot testing, see if it works behind a proxy. back in a bit.
<Red_HamsterX> Pushing that now, ubuntujenkins.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: can you do that for the window please
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<Red_HamsterX> I'll test it in a moment.
<daker> i told him ( ubuntujenkins )
<Red_HamsterX> daker, I still don't think it's a good idea to resize the PNGs outside of LaTeX.
<Red_HamsterX> It limits the maximum quality of the on-screen versions.
<Red_HamsterX> If anything, using imagemagick's 'convert' utility in a pre-processing script for the print version would probably be the right thing to focus on.
<ubuntujenkins> I have the nm thing sorted
<daker> Red_HamsterX, i think the result with latex is less good
<ubuntujenkins> I can't test it though as it disconects the internet
<Red_HamsterX> daker, I'm inclined to believe that's because the PDF viewer is resizing the image using a fast algorithm.
<daker> may be
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, the deletable fix isn't causing any problems on my end. But I haven't been experiencing the problem you've described.
<Red_HamsterX> You'll need to test it.
<godbyk> daker: do the screenshots in the manual look better if you use xpdf instead of evince?
<humphreybc> daker: if you're using evince and images look shit, it's because evince has a bug in rendering the images
<Red_HamsterX> So how can I help with the nm-applet thing?
<humphreybc> who's familiar with git here btw?
<Red_HamsterX> I've used it for some projects before.
<Red_HamsterX> What do you need to know, humphreybc?
<ubuntujenkins> can you push the deltable thing Red_HamsterX
<humphreybc> okay, I need someone to get the unstable upstream of evince to see if bug 248355 is fixed
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 248355 in poppler "Evince doesn't anti-alias graphics" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248355
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, already done. q185.
<humphreybc> we need to confirm that's the bug we're experiencing and if it's fixed in upstream... if it is I may be able to convince the ubuntu-desktop guys to put it in Lucid
<godbyk> Sweet! meho_r gave me some edits for ch6 and 7.
<ubuntujenkins> i am on wifi and i have to go down to get a connection waking everyone up but killall nm-applet kills it and nm-applet starts it
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ^
 * daker will use Adobe Reader to open the manual
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, how can I test this?
<ubuntujenkins> put it in the code and check it works?
<Red_HamsterX> Where?
<Red_HamsterX> You could just add and push it.
<Red_HamsterX> Only you and I are using the dev branch right now.
<ubuntujenkins> ok I will do in a second
<Red_HamsterX> And I'll fix the PPA reference screenshot.
 * Red_HamsterX is very happy version control exists.
<Red_HamsterX> I just deleted the wrong directory.
<Red_HamsterX> Reference screencaps pushed.
 * ubuntujenkins pulls
<ubuntujenkins> pushed q187
<ubuntujenkins> the button thing isn't fixed, it must be a window manger problem
<Red_HamsterX> :(
<Red_HamsterX> Well, it works as expected under Metacity...
<Red_HamsterX> Testing your nm-applet stuff now...
<humphreybc> dutchie: you around?
<Red_HamsterX> When will I see things happen?
<Red_HamsterX> Or is it supposed to be near-instantaneous?
<ubuntujenkins> when the quickshot user is et up nm-applet will be closed, when you open up the quickshot user mn-applet will open
<ubuntujenkins> I have assigned the close button to the same thing as the back button on the capture window
 * humphreybc is going to head home now, be back on in about 25 minutes
<Red_HamsterX> So nuke Quickshot and start fresh?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<Red_HamsterX> That's a good workaround.
<Red_HamsterX> Want me to remove the line that removes the button?
<ubuntujenkins> yes please
<Red_HamsterX> Done.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<Red_HamsterX> Removing Quickshot user now.
<ubuntujenkins> you may lose internet tempoaryly btw
<Red_HamsterX> I seem to have glitched Lucid...
<Red_HamsterX> Restarting.
<Red_HamsterX> That's fine.
<Red_HamsterX> I have many computers.
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot push made
<daker> the result with xpdf seems to be the same as evince
<godbyk> daker: really? can you email a side-by-side screenshot of it to me at kevin@ubuntu-manual.org please?
<godbyk> I'm trying to track down the cause of the problem.
<godbyk> daker: did it look better or the same in acrobat reader?
<daker> looks a little better in xpdf than evince
<daker> godbyk, check you email : kevin@ubuntu-manual.org
<daker> your*
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: do you think we are there?
<Red_HamsterX> No... I'm having trouble with setting up the Quickshot user now...
<Red_HamsterX> On logging in, nothing's starting up to say hi.
<Red_HamsterX> And I'm not sure why.
<Red_HamsterX> I launched it with --devel for the installation.
<Red_HamsterX> Wanna walk me through the bzr installation process so I can be sure I haven't forgotten to do something?
<godbyk> daker: Got 'em. Thanks.  Don't you think the xpdf output looks better than the evince output?
<daker> godbyk, yeah
<daker> and i think with PHP output it will looks better
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: sudo apt-get install bzr
<Red_HamsterX> From the post-pull stage, I mean.
<Red_HamsterX> I've got the most recent version of the code on my test system, with no quickshot user.
<Red_HamsterX> What's the right command to use to launch Quickshot from here?
<ubuntujenkins> you have py-bebel right? do quickly run --devel --debug
<Red_HamsterX> From which directory?
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot in the quickshot home
<ubuntujenkins> have a look at the end of the .profile file please
<Red_HamsterX> There is no quickshot home.
<Red_HamsterX> (I removed the user)
<Red_HamsterX> (To confirm whether this is a bug or not)
<ubuntujenkins> sorry from where ever you have the branch in your user
<Red_HamsterX> Template ubuntu-application does not exist.
<ubuntujenkins> are you using ubuntu?
<Red_HamsterX> I am.
<Red_HamsterX> 10.04.
<ubuntujenkins> have you got quickly installed?
<Red_HamsterX> Somehow, no, I did not.
<Red_HamsterX> Installing now.
<Red_HamsterX> Done.
<Red_HamsterX> It must have been removed by an update.
<Red_HamsterX> Still getting the same error.
<ubuntujenkins> do you have glade?
<Red_HamsterX> Yes, I do,
<Red_HamsterX> Are you sure it's just "quickly run <options>" with no target?
<ubuntujenkins> does quickly design work?
<Red_HamsterX> It does not.
<ubuntujenkins> you have to change to the directory that contains the quickshot branch first
<Red_HamsterX> I'm there.
<ubuntujenkins> o erm..
<ubuntujenkins> quickly glade?
<Red_HamsterX> Same error...
<Red_HamsterX> Hmm...
<ubuntujenkins> you must have something missing
<dutchie> humphreybc: here now
<humphreybc> hi
<Red_HamsterX> I'm gonna dist-upgrade and reboot.
<humphreybc> dutchie, how good are you at git and upstream and patching stuff and posting debdiffs and whatnot
<ubuntujenkins> ok Red_HamsterX
<dutchie> reasonably good, why?
<humphreybc> dutchie: you need to fix this bug and patch it in Lucid, bug 248355
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 248355 in poppler "Evince doesn't anti-alias graphics" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248355
<humphreybc> read the last few comments
<humphreybc> "If you want this fixed for Lucid, someone needs to backport the appropriate patches to 0.12.4 and post a debdiff against the current version in Lucid (0.12.4-0ubuntu2). I donât know how easy that would be, nor whether such a patch would be accepted into Lucid after FeatureFreeze, but at least it would have a chance."
<dutchie> right
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> that's your job for the next couple of weeks :)
<humphreybc> actually
<Red_HamsterX> Why the heck does Lucid think I need Postfix?
<humphreybc> that's your job for this week
<humphreybc> (it needs to be done asap)
<humphreybc> dutchie, you actually have till the 1st :)
<ubuntujenkins> GOOD LUCK dutchie debs are fun
<humphreybc> (because that's beta2 freeze)
<Red_HamsterX> des aren't bad if you;re working with an already-assembled pakage.
<Red_HamsterX> Toss a patch into the direct directory, add an entry to serials, and let debhelper do the rest.
<Red_HamsterX> beds*
<Red_HamsterX> debs**
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<Red_HamsterX> into the correct*
<dutchie> shouldn't take too long to be honest
 * Red_HamsterX needs typing lessons.
<humphreybc> dutchie: please join me in #ubuntu-desktop
<humphreybc> dutchie, deploy!
<dutchie> doing it now
<humphreybc> fantastic
<Red_HamsterX> ...Did you just issue him a command?
<humphreybc> hey mattgriffin could you please pastebin your Ubuntu One stuff so I can include it in main?
<mattgriffin> humphreybc: sorry. doing now
<humphreybc> mattgriffin: no worries, thanks
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/getquickshot#preview
<ubuntujenkins> nope https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/getquickshot
<ubuntujenkins> comments please
<ubuntujenkins> needs live cd burning instruction link
 * daker have to made a download buttons for quickshot now
<humphreybc> daker: what have you got planned for the rest of the website today?
<mattgriffin> humphreybc: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/406743/   ... 1 more coming
<mattgriffin> humphreybc: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/406745/   ... that's it. thanks!
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: hows the testing?
<Red_HamsterX> dist-upgrade just finsihed.
<Red_HamsterX> Rebooting now.
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<daker> ubuntujenkins, the "Get Quickshot" button doesn't work for you ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: that button will appear upon quickshot release on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> I will link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/getquickshot
<daker> what's Caption i'll put ?
<ubuntujenkins> "Download" will be fine please
<daker> kk
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, quickly's not broken anymore.
<Red_HamsterX> Attempting to do free install.
<Red_HamsterX> And the problems I was having seem to be gone.
<Red_HamsterX> I didn't notice nm-applet disappear or anything, though...
 * Red_HamsterX cycles.
<Red_HamsterX> It's possible that it went down and up during the login process itself, though.
<ubuntujenkins> does it show in the quickshot user?
<Red_HamsterX> It does, but it always did.
<Red_HamsterX> I never saw it disappear once.
<ubuntujenkins> why is my computer so strange it was a clean install 4 days ago
<Red_HamsterX> This one's from March 4th.
<Red_HamsterX> It does some weird things.
<ubuntujenkins> I am going to try in virtual box
<ubuntujenkins> have you any thoughts on the wiki?
<Red_HamsterX> Link?
<ubuntujenkins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/getquickshot and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/
<ubuntujenkins> I have set the e-mail in the about box as the quickshot devs one quickshotdevs@lists.launchpad.net
<Red_HamsterX> Mind if I just edit stuff?
<ubuntujenkins> nope go a head
<Red_HamsterX> I'm going to correct the screenshot count.
<ubuntujenkins> I did that on the launchpad project page
<ubuntujenkins> just forgot that one
<humphreybc> daker, can we also take the stuff from the wiki with quickshot and put it on our website?
<humphreybc> (it'll have to go in ubuntu-manual.org not test.ubuntu-manual.org)(
<humphreybc> actually, put it in both because once we launch the test website as the main one we'll want quickshot information too
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: are you in a postion to test if i send you a package?
<humphreybc> so basically you want a Quickshot page with the overview from the wiki and instructions on adding the PPA.
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: are you going to host a .deb or give instructions for the PPA? or both?
<humphreybc> and yeah, I am, fire a deb my way
<ubuntujenkins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/getquickshot
<ubuntujenkins> is the isntructions so far
<ubuntujenkins> just building you one
<humphreybc> okay
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: can you log into quickshot and see iff nm-applet is there please
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc:  sent
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> so ubuntujenkins I should remove the PPA version and install this one?
<ubuntujenkins> please
<ubuntujenkins> and the user
<humphreybc> ok
 * humphreybc will be back
#ubuntu-manual 2010-03-31
 * Red_HamsterX updates the 'about' page.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks Red_HamsterX I hadn't gotten around to that yet
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc has been away for a while :$
<Red_HamsterX> I'm being nagged at to work on another project. :(
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Refuse!
<Red_HamsterX> What's left to test? (Aside from "everything, for paranoia's sake")
<Red_HamsterX> I can't. It's PyWeek and, well, it's one week.
<Red_HamsterX> It's just GLSL.
<Red_HamsterX> I think I can spare a few hours per day to work on that.
<Red_HamsterX> Not at the cost of this project, though.
<ubuntujenkins> We are waiting on bens test, I think you can spare the time we will be dealing with the bugs we get, If any :-)
<Red_HamsterX> I'm watching irssi's status bar very closely.
<Red_HamsterX> This channel doesn't get to stay active for more than a few seconds before I read about what's going on. :)
<humphreybc> what's up?
<ubuntujenkins> did it work?
 * humphreybc had problems with nm-applet not starting after testing quickshot, pointer dying
<humphreybc> it worked for quickshot
<humphreybc> so it turned off nm-applet for my user
<humphreybc> worked in quickshot, i loaded the list and took a screen
<Red_HamsterX> Your user sucks. =P
<humphreybc> but it didn't start nm-applet again when I went back to my user
<humphreybc> and now for some reason my mouse pointer won't change to what I want
<ubuntujenkins> no that was expected
<Red_HamsterX> For the LiveCD environment, I'd consider that an acceptable loss.
<ubuntujenkins> I am trying to get a better solution
<ubuntujenkins> I am wondering if it is user permission releated
<Red_HamsterX> Put a cron entry in the installer's account?
<ubuntujenkins> the fact that the quickshot user can't see the nm-applet
<Red_HamsterX> Every minute, if quickshot isn't logged in, try to start nm-applet.
<Red_HamsterX> It could be a bug with nm.
<ubuntujenkins> looking for a bug now
<humphreybc> dutchie: what do I need to be on IRC for? why'd you ring me on skype?
<dutchie> humphreybc: wanted to play with skype
<humphreybc> rigiht
<humphreybc> i've got it working now
<dutchie> and ubuntujenkins/ Red_HamsterX seemed to want you
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: the nm-applet use to allow mulitple users in 9.10 i am sure
<humphreybc> compiz + cursors = loss
<godbyk> dutchie: did the patch appear to fix our problem?
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, where's the Quickshot bug-reporting page?
<dutchie> godbyk: dunno
<dutchie> still working on it
<godbyk> gotcha
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: https://bugs.launchpad.net/quickshot
<dutchie> bugger
<dutchie> accidentally put bug 348335 instead of bug 348355 in
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 348335 in linux "[Jaunty] Wireless not authenticating WPA-PSK (3945ABG)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348335
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 348355 in firefox-3.0 "firefox config print.print_headerleft is reset every update" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348355
<dutchie> er, not even that
<dutchie> bug 248335 and bug 248355
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 248335 in ubuntu "WG111T usb Dongle not functional in hardy (dup-of: 147203)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248335
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 147203 in ubuntu "WG111T not working on Hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147203
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 248355 in poppler "Evince doesn't anti-alias graphics" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248355
<dutchie> and it's having to recompile from scratch :(
<godbyk> nice
<dutchie> this is not fun on a netbook
<humphreybc> OMG I AM GOING TO MURDER COMPIZ
<Red_HamsterX> Okay.
<humphreybc> compiz will ONLY let me use compiz mega-large black cursor
<godbyk> humphreybc: you mean mouse pointer? ;-)
<humphreybc> sure
<Red_HamsterX> Some of us don't use mice. =P
<humphreybc> I've been changing it in appearance and restarting X but it just won't work
<humphreybc> it's driving me crazy
<ubuntujenkins> have you deleted the .compiz folder?
<humphreybc> yes
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: I am tempted to remove the nm-applet lines of code. File a bug against ourselves and tell users to log out not switch users to get the network manager stuff. thoughts?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: don't think its compiz
<humphreybc> it's compiz
<humphreybc> when I run metacity --replace the mouse cursor is correct
<Red_HamsterX> I don't see a problem with that, ubuntujenkins.
<Red_HamsterX> You'll need to change the switch-users code, too, of course.
<ubuntujenkins> thats easy to do
 * ubuntujenkins makes the change
<ubuntujenkins> I will add a please save all of your work etc... note
<Red_HamsterX> getquickshot page updated.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> does it make sense that if the --devel flag is used it switches user not log out?
<humphreybc> anyone know where cursor themes are stored?
<dutchie> ooh, nearly finished compiling
 * ubuntujenkins feels slightly responsible for humphreybc's problem
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> it seriously is getting annoying now
<humphreybc> I've checked everything, uninstalled compiz, deleted the configurations
<humphreybc> check gconf editor
<dutchie> humphreybc: you are quite unlucky with lucid really
<humphreybc> everything is set correctly but it JUST WONT CHANGE FROM GIGANTIC BLACK COMIX CURSOR
<humphreybc> so now I want to replace all the comix cursor images with the cursor I want
<dutchie> any relevant settings in ccsm?
<humphreybc> dutchie: not in ccsm itself but there is a gconf key for cursor. It has no schema, but it's set correctly
<dutchie> weird
<humphreybc> where are cursor themes stored?
<dutchie> nfi
<humphreybc> YESS
<humphreybc> problem solved
<humphreybc> I just replaced all of the comix-cursors black-huge images with comix-cursors-white-small
<humphreybc> /usr/share/icons
<humphreybc> back to my lovely small white rounded cursor
<humphreybc> phew
 * humphreybc is very, very, very pedantic about cursors
 * humphreybc will now try out quickshot on a Live CD from this point on
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<humphreybc> yay
<humphreybc> dutchie, how's that bug going?
<humphreybc> going to be fixed in time for Lucid?
<ubuntujenkins> I have no clue what caused it
<dutchie> if it compiles in time
<dutchie> I have a driving lesson in 7 hours
<humphreybc> is it going to take 7 hours to compile?
<dutchie> if it doesn't work this time, i'm going to bed
<dutchie> I bloody well hope it doesn't take 7 hours
<humphreybc> lol
<dutchie> I could do with some sleep though
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> brb
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: shall i up the version number from 0.0.8 to 0.1.0?
<dutchie> aha, finished \o/
<humphreybc> did it work?
<dutchie> just installing the newly built packages
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I have removed the code that was most likely to have caused your problems network manager isn't stopped any more. we log the user out not switch users
<humphreybc> ah okay
<humphreybc> well that's good
<dutchie> can someone link me a copy of the manual? I can't build it here
<dutchie> it's fixed one of the example pdfs mentioned in the bug
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> hang on one sec
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/main.pdf
<humphreybc> that's the latest rev
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc the changes to gdm login came today
<dutchie> here goes
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: yeah saw that
<ubuntujenkins> I will fake a screenshot tomorrow
<dutchie> I'll get it merged in anyway
<humphreybc> what are we doing with notecallouts?
<humphreybc> they've only been used in a few chapters
<humphreybc> godbyk ^^
<dutchie> bugger, seb128's gone
<humphreybc> darn
<humphreybc> dutchie: did it fix it?
<godbyk> humphreybc: I've been replacing note callouts with marginnotes.
<dutchie> humphreybc: seems to have done
<humphreybc> godbyk okay
<humphreybc> dutchie: fantastic
<godbyk> the callouts were inconsistently used and we should just remove them entirely for now.
<dutchie> can't remember what it looked like before tbh
<humphreybc> find someone else in #ubuntu-desktop
<humphreybc> see my examples on the bug report
<humphreybc> ask jcastro if you must
<godbyk> dutchie: it worked?
<dutchie> http://imagebin.ca/view/mAwKC3.html
<humphreybc> great success!!
<ubuntujenkins> wwooo
<humphreybc> nice work dutchie!
<humphreybc> now, get it into lucid
<dutchie> merge request is filed
<godbyk> dutchie: awesome! great job!
<godbyk> dutchie: can I subscribe to the merge request?
<ubuntujenkins> 22 hours 40 mins till the freeze
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: shut up! :)
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: can we all subscribe?
<dutchie> godbyk: sure
<godbyk> manualbot should give us a countdown. :)
<manualbot> godbyk: Error: "should" is not a valid command.
<manualbot> godbyk: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<godbyk> manualbot: stuff it!
<manualbot> godbyk: Error: "stuff" is not a valid command.
<manualbot> Factoid 'stuff it!' not found
<dutchie> I am definitely NOT starting anything now
<dutchie> I am going to bed
<dutchie> goodnight
<godbyk> dutchie: g'night!
<ubuntujenkins> can we please have a releaser count doen?
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> night
<ubuntujenkins> night dutchie
 * ubuntujenkins typing fail
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<Red_HamsterX> Back.
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
 * humphreybc is zsyncing his lucid ISO, putting it on a pen drive and is going to test quickshot
<Takyoji> So the writing freeze is in less than 24 hours?
<humphreybc> Takyoji: correct
<Takyoji> Does that generally imply that no further textual additions to the manual can be made thereafter?
<humphreybc> more or less
<humphreybc> we're just editing stuff now
<Takyoji> ahh, alright. I just thought there were some parts that were incomplete still
<humphreybc> anything that's incomplete is probably going to be removed if it hasn't already
<humphreybc> bollocks
<humphreybc> I have to re download the ISO
<humphreybc> it's going to take ages too
<daker> humphreybc, quickshot doesn' work for Karmic ?
<humphreybc> daker: no, it's not meant to
<humphreybc> we don't want screenshots from karmic in the manual ;)
<daker> oki
<daker> i now just to give it a test
<daker> know*
<humphreybc> have you got a Lucid Live CD?
<daker> I downloaded the iso the beta 1
<humphreybc> okay, you can put that on a USB drive
<humphreybc> then run quickshot on that
<daker> sure
<daker> godbyk, check your email
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> yeah, it looks good in adobe acrobat reader.
<daker> yes
<godbyk> hopefully we can get dutchie's evince patch into lucid.
<daker> hopefully :)
<humphreybc> sounds like we will be able to
 * humphreybc thinks the channel is a bit quiet considering we're so close to beta
<godbyk> I'd suggestion that everyone's busy editing, but I'm not seeing any commits, either. :)
<daker> humphreybc, should i add the Quickshot page in the website ?
<humphreybc> daker: yeah that'd be cool
<daker> oki where ?
<humphreybc> um
<humphreybc>  /quickshot?
<humphreybc> and put in a link from the main nav bar
<daker> after About this Project ? or  Get Involved ?
<humphreybc> Change "About this project" to simply "About"
<humphreybc> and then put Quickshot in between "Get Involved" and "Contributors
<daker> kk
<humphreybc> You'll need to put it both in daker and daker-test
<daker> kk
<daker> the content is the same as https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/a
<daker> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/
<daker> ?
<humphreybc> sort of
<humphreybc> we need more of a summary page
<humphreybc> do you want me to make a mockup in photoshop?
<daker> if you want
<humphreybc> okay, it'll take me about 20 minutes
<daker> no problemo
<humphreybc> meanwhile, you should work on making the buttons glow when you roll over them :P
<daker> sure
<humphreybc> daker, something like this: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/quickshot.png
<daker> nice
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> that's a rough job
<humphreybc> so I expect your one to be prettier :P
<daker> can you put the text in a text file ?
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/quickshot-website-text.txt
<daker> thanks
<humphreybc> no worries. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with :P
<daker> :)
<humphreybc> I'll make you a better main image
<humphreybc> daker:
<daker> yep
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/quickshot-reflection.png
<humphreybc> you may have to resize it a wee bit
<daker> yes
<humphreybc> does that look okay?
<daker> everything is oky
<humphreybc> daker: I've pushed the new files in the branch too
<daker> pull it
<humphreybc> daker, also, some of the font sizes and spacing here are a bit funky
<humphreybc> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved
<humphreybc> like the bullet point font seems to be bigger than the other text
<humphreybc> and you might need to find another colour for the translators, because it's quite close to the yellow used in the editor button
<humphreybc> make it more orangy perhaps
<daker> kk
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> hey I like it how the button actually depresses when you click it on the get involved page, that's neat
<daker> trying to improve them
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> it's looking great daker
<humphreybc> really awesome
<daker> thanks
<humphreybc> yay Lucid has downloaded
<humphreybc> now i just have to put it on my pen drive and I can start testing quickshot
<daker>  the bullet point font is the same as the text font
<daker> the size too
<humphreybc> really?
<humphreybc> it looks weird in Chrome
<daker> try in FF
<humphreybc> okay
<daker> oh ye ye you are right
<humphreybc> still looks different in FF
<humphreybc> also, the instructions here need better spacing
<humphreybc> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/authors
<daker> it's 5:04 i'll go to bed
<humphreybc> btw, the rollover buttons don't work in Chrome, but they do on FF
<humphreybc> daker: hehe fair enough :)
<humphreybc> talk to you later! have a good sleep
<daker> so made a TODOLIST of what i have to fix in the website for tomorrow
<daker> make
<humphreybc> :)
 * humphreybc is going to do some hardcore quickshot testing
<humphreybc> be back later
<humphreybc> well that was a short test
<IlyaHaykinson> what was?
<humphreybc> couldn't install the quickshot .deb, got an "Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: python-pybabel"
<humphreybc> I just tried to test it on a Lucid Live CD on a USB pen drive
<humphreybc> daily build of Lucid from today
<humphreybc> so I tried to add the PPA
<humphreybc> but then I got an error about there being no amd64 package
<IlyaHaykinson> ah
<humphreybc> ya
<IlyaHaykinson> what's the shortcut for GB?
<IlyaHaykinson> \giga\byte?
<humphreybc> no
<humphreybc> now it's just \acronym{GB}
<humphreybc> I think
<IlyaHaykinson> ah ok
<IlyaHaykinson> i guess i'll check the system requirements
<humphreybc> yeah
<IlyaHaykinson> in the installation chapter
<humphreybc> godbyk has done those I think
<humphreybc> (updated them)(
<IlyaHaykinson> got it
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: you're on lucid now?
<IlyaHaykinson> can you check if the theme name is Ambiance (correctly spelled) or Ambience (as is in the docs, and incorrect)?
<IlyaHaykinson> not in the docs, in the manual
<godbyk> What've I done?
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: It should be ``Ambiance''
<godbyk> (i.e., spelled correctly.)
<godbyk> I think I fixed it in a place or two that I noticed it. But I haven't done an exhaustive search.
<godbyk> Sounds like a candidate for the proofread.py script, though.
<IlyaHaykinson> ok, fixing.
<IlyaHaykinson> and adding to script
<humphreybc> neat
 * humphreybc has been reporting bugs for Quickshot
<IlyaHaykinson> heh! nice spelling error: "proproetary"
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot
<humphreybc> right i'm off to grab some tea
<Red_HamsterX> Ten bugs already, humphreybc?
<Red_HamsterX> You don't want me to sleep, do you?
<IlyaHaykinson> ok, so the spellchecking script helped
<Red_HamsterX> I've gone through the reports. I'll handle what I can after waking up. Fixes for some stuff have been committed.
<IlyaHaykinson> alright, i think that last commit was my last before the freeze
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: saw those, thanks. I'm just watching a boxing match... be back on later :)
<humphreybc> and yes I do mean py-babel
<ubuntujenkins> soory for disappearing randomly Red_HamsterX my laptop over heated, once it had cooled i couldn't get a internet connection back with out waking the whole house
<ubuntujenkins> whats left to do?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: has filed loads of bugs, bug mail spam
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: which ppa did you try on the live cd?
<jaminday> Hi all - about to do some more work on chapter 5. Is anyone else scratching around in there at the moment?
<godbyk> jaminday: I think you're clear, jaminday
<jaminday> no worries. Conflicts are not fun is all.
<godbyk> I'm going to hit up chapters 6 and 7 with some minor editing.  There are some bigger edits that need to be made, but this close to the deadline, I may push them off 'til the second edition.
<jaminday> Yeah good idea.
<godbyk> I'm resigned to coming out with a second edition to make all the corrections, edits, and additions that we didn't have time to squeeze into this initial release.
<godbyk> Btw, you're welcome to leave the \todo commands in there.  I can turn them all off with a single switch.
<jaminday> Yeah I agree. I'm a bit of a perfectionist by nature so it pains me not to have time to fix/add/edit everything!
<godbyk> Same here.  It's really frustrating.
<jaminday> ok great. That might be useful when it comes to 2nd edition work.
<jaminday> yes it is! But there is only so much time in a day, and we have achieved a lot in a few months. With double the prep time for the next release, and half the content already written, I think we will be much happier by the end!
<godbyk> Agreed.  I'm looking forward to a 10.10 release.
<godbyk> I'm kind of framing this 10.04 release as a 'first draft' in my mind.
<godbyk> (Though I *hate* writing drafts and despise even more making them public!)
<jaminday> yep same here. Hopefully the end-users will be a little understanding!
<godbyk> We've learned a lot about the process so far, too, and there are some things we can improve for our next cycle.
<godbyk> Hopefully humphreybc hasn't talked it up too much. :-)
<jaminday> hehe well we are shot there!
<jaminday> ;)
<jaminday> (humphreybc - if you are listening, we still think you're cool)
<godbyk> ...mostly.
<godbyk> ;-)
<jaminday> hehe
<godbyk> meho_r does a great job with these edits.  Have you seen them, jaminday?
<jaminday> yeah i've seen some of the diff's from some revisions you pushed with his edits
<jaminday> lots of good changes
<jaminday> godbyk: humphreybc posted earlier that josh holland fixed the evince anti-aliasing problem?
<godbyk> They're even better when you read the annotated PDFs.. lots of insightful comments. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/171954/Ubuntu/Ubuntu-Manual-ch-6-7.pdf
<godbyk> jaminday: It seems that way.
<godbyk> He's requested it be merged in for Lucid.
<godbyk> We're supposed to hear back more tomorrow.
<godbyk> If it works out, that will make me very happy.
<godbyk> It would be disappointing to push out our PDF and have it look crappy in the default PDF viewer.
<jaminday> yeah definitely
<jaminday> i think i will virtua-hug josh if the fix makes it in!
<godbyk> If the fix doesn't get merged for Lucid, I may scale the screenshots before putting them in the PDF so evince doesn't have to scale them.  The printable version can have the full-res images and the on-screen version can have the lower-res images.
<godbyk> But I'm not even sure that'd solve the problem.
<godbyk> Group hug!
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> godbyk: that pdf you sent me is funny
<godbyk> Also, I'm super-impressed with the quickshot dev work.
<godbyk> jaminday: you have to view it with adobe acrobat reader.
<godbyk> evince sucks.. again.
<jaminday> ah, that explains it
<godbyk> I think our default response to all complaints should now be 'evince sucks.'
<jaminday> hehe
<godbyk> "Hey, you misspelled 'Ubuntu'."
<godbyk> Evince sucks.
<jaminday> lol
<jaminday> on that note, i'm about to have some dinner. Will be back in about an hour!
<meho_r> Hi there :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I will you be awake in about 4 hours time? I plan to get the cd done by then
<godbyk> See ya, jaminday.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'll probably be heading to bed around then.
<godbyk> Could it hold off for another 6-8 hours after that?  Or will that be too late?
<ubuntujenkins> I will see if i can get it done earlier, Just need a quick chat with Red_HamsterX
<godbyk> 'kay.  Get all the bugs worked out?
<ubuntujenkins> all the important ones yes but waiting for a response form humphreybc on some of them
<godbyk> We've got what, about 15 hours 'til pencils down?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<ubuntujenkins> loads of time
<godbyk> Some of the screenshots -- the really tiny ones -- like the window control buttons -- we were going to retake those and set them up to take a shot of the whole title bar + some (for context).
<godbyk> Did that get done?
<godbyk> Or is that pushed off 'til another edition?
<ubuntujenkins> I wasn't aware of that, how much of the title bar are we talking?
<thorwil> godbyk: i don't see how scaling the images before putting them into the pdf could help. whenever the resolution of the bitmaps does not match the resolution of the current zoom, evince will do its horrible deed
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: It can be added in a flash just update the sever code
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I don't know if it was ever finalized.  But basically we want enough to be able to see where the control buttons are in relation to the rest of the window (i.e., top left).
<godbyk> thorwil: ah, figures.  Evince sucks! :-)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: with or with out the file , edit etc
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: If it doesn't look too cluttered, we can try it with the menu bar.  Maybe even a few pixels below that, too.  I dunno. :)
<godbyk> They just look weird as it is now.  there's no context, so you don't know where to find these control buttons.
<ubuntujenkins> also I assume you also mean the network icon and help icon?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yep!
<dutchie> godbyk: I don't think there's a "may" - this patch will probably get uploaded today
<godbyk> dutchie: awesome!
<godbyk> dutchie: I'm editing the command line chapter: did we settle the bash/dash thing? Or should I leave that for the next edition?
<dutchie> /bin/sh is dash, but the default shell for new users is bash
<godbyk> Okay. I'll leave it as bash then.
<godbyk> (btw, the whole symlinking sh to dash has bitten me on more than one occasion!)
<dutchie> I don't think it matters unless you start doing some reasonably complex shell scripting, which we're not going to cover
<godbyk> Is bash spelled bash, Bash, or BASH?
<godbyk> I know it's an acronym.
<godbyk> Wikipedia spells it Bash, apparently.
<godbyk> Anyone know what the official spelling is?
<dutchie> I'd go bash
<dutchie> definitely not BASH
<godbyk> 'kay.
<dutchie> the man page switches between Bash and bash
<nisshh> weeeeeeee!
<nisshh> glossary time
<dutchie> seems to be bash unless it starts a sentence
<godbyk> fair enough.
<godbyk> While everyone's here, I'll open the floor to suggestions and complaints as to the formatting of the GUI elements, application names, etc.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: we should be able to get those sorted
<godbyk> I think there may be too much bold going on for one.  But with all the ad hoc formatting that's been taking place (a lot of which will not be fixed until after a style guide is written and a second edition is produced), it's all a bit messy.  Reminds me of a family newsletter.
<nisshh> humphreybc: i wont be able to make it to the meeting either
 * ubuntujenkins hopes the updates don't over fill the live cd
<godbyk> Chapter 6 is a mess and now has mixed usage of apt-get and aptitude.
<godbyk> I'll push some of my edits and then someone else can look at it.
<nisshh> godbyk: do you want me to fix it, it is my chapter after all
<godbyk> nisshh: Sure. Give me just a second to push the edits I've made, then it's all yours.
<godbyk> okay, nisshh, I've pushed my changes.
<godbyk> have at it!
<godbyk> I'm on to chapter 7 now.
<nisshh> godbyk: cool, ill just finish adding an entry to the glossary
<godbyk> "open source software" or "open-source software"?  Also, what's the story on capitalization of "open source"?
<godbyk> I think it should be hyphenated as an adjective and probably lowercase.
<godbyk> brb
<nisshh> no-one edit chapter 6, im fixing the apt section
<jaminday> godbyk: +1 for too much bold
<jaminday> nisshh: no probs - i'm doing 5 now
<nisshh> ok, pushing now
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: what about these two screenshots http://imagebin.org/90995 http://imagebin.org/90996 ( I will make the window active)
<nisshh> godbyk: what should i use instead of aptitude safe-upgrade?
<godbyk> back now
<godbyk> jaminday: I think I might drop the bold application names. They're capitalized anyway.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I like those!
<godbyk> we'll have to make sure we explain in the text (and caption) what to look for (window controls buttons in upper left and blue help icon)
<godbyk> whoops.. hit Ctrl+W when the wrong window had focus
<ubuntujenkins> do we want to split the network and help icons sperate screenshots cut the panel in half?
<godbyk> if they're talked about at different points in the manual, we could just slice the panel up.
<godbyk> that way there's less clutter.
<godbyk> then again, maybe the full panel will be helpful for wayfinding.
<nisshh> rev 700!
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/700 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 700
<godbyk> I'm not sure.
<godbyk> nisshh: nice!
<nisshh> godbyk: yea! i fixed ch6 too, you should go over it to see if i missed anything though
<ubuntujenkins> I can upload the panel and windows into branch and someone can add them in.
<godbyk> nisshh: 'kay. I'll do that when I'm done with ch7. thanks!
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: sounds like a plan.
<nisshh> godbyk: can you also have a look at the glossary in the pdf, some of the spacing is munted
<nisshh> godbyk: when your ready
<godbyk> nisshh: yep, will do!
<ubuntujenkins> pushed rev 701 once you have decided how you want them we will add them to quickshot
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/701 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 701
<godbyk> okay, building the manual.
<godbyk> then I'll tackle the TODO items you guys just gave me.
<godbyk> The manual is 170 pages now.
<godbyk> nisshh: margin note on page 131 has aptitude in it.
<jaminday> godbyk: when talking about Software Sources is this a \window or \application
<godbyk> nisshh: what did you want me to look at in the glossary?
<godbyk> (aside from the extra periods that it inserts. I'll fix that later.)
<godbyk> jaminday: good question.  probably depends on the context.  if you're referring to the window, use \window. if you're referring to the app, use \application.
<nisshh> the spacing is munted, look at the glossary page in the pdf
<godbyk> nisshh: munted?
<nisshh> hang on
<jaminday> godbyk: ok
<nisshh> godbyk: some entries in the pdf have blank lines between them and some dont
<godbyk> nisshh: ah. there are blank lines before entries that start with a new letter.
<godbyk> so the entries are grouped by the letter they begin with.
<nisshh> godbyk: right
<nisshh> godbyk: is that how you want it left?
<godbyk> nisshh: I haven't decided yet. That was just the default glossary style. I'll have to see what other styles are available (or if I can make my own easily).
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: do I need to do anything with the new screenshots you uploaded?
<ubuntujenkins> can you add them in the right places please, I am doing quickshot stuff
<nisshh> godbyk: ok, ill leave it with you
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: sure thing. thanks!
<godbyk> nisshh: fair enough. :)
<ubuntujenkins> Thanks godbyk
<ubuntujenkins> EVERYONE Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance in 14 minutes.
<godbyk> yippee
<godbyk> does that mean bzr goes down too?
<ubuntujenkins> no clue just what me need
<ubuntujenkins> *we
<godbyk> no doubt
<godbyk> final hours before freeze and the whole system goes offline. :)
<godbyk> the manual takes so long to compile.. ugh!
<ubuntujenkins> http://identi.ca/launchpadstatus
<ubuntujenkins> we have to wait about an hour
<nisshh> ok
<godbyk> well, I pushed my changes.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk what are we doing about the network icon? I see the help screenshot  has changed
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'm not sure yet.
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<godbyk> I would've used the full panel, but I didn't have an easy way to describe the network icon's location. :)
<godbyk> so it may remain as is for now and we'll deal with it later.
 * godbyk is pushing more and more stuff off to the second edition. :)
<jaminday> godbyk: perhaps in the second edition we should come up with a funky way to highlight/point out certain areas of screenshots
<godbyk> Running a second edition if kind of a steam valve for my stress levels. :)
<ubuntujenkins> thats fine jsut making sure i know which ones to change
<godbyk> yeah, I think using arrows and the like would be nice.
<godbyk> maybe we can build that in to quickshot, too.
<nisshh> godbyk: is there a second edition for the 10.04 manual?
<nisshh> or going to be?
<godbyk> nisshh: I think there will be.
<jaminday> yeah - i'm sure our design guys could come up with an interesting way
<nisshh> cool
<jaminday> nisshh: i think humphreybc was against the idea though
<godbyk> At least that's what I'm telling myself. ;-)
<godbyk> There are certainly down-sides to it.
<nisshh> jaminday: i am too, it means everyone will have to download a new copy once it comes out
<godbyk> You have to edit and maintain two branches in parallel then.
<godbyk> Translators may freak.
<nisshh> godbyk: exactly twice the work
<nisshh> i think its a really bad idea to have a second edition
<nisshh> it should be either this release or next release
<nisshh> nothing in between
<jaminday> godbyk: perhaps we could make our own special 2nd edition just to satisfy you and I  ;)
<godbyk> jaminday: Ha! There we go.
<godbyk> The jaminday and godbyk Special Edition.
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> signed special edition
<nisshh> pfffff, you two are full of it lol
<godbyk> jaminday: if you pull the latest revisions, I removed the bold from the application names. I think that helps quite a bit. what do you think?
<jaminday> nisshh: lol
<jaminday> godbyk: will i be able to pull if lp is down for maintenance?
<godbyk> jaminday: not sure. you can try.
<jaminday> ok - backing up first just in case i break the internet!
<godbyk> good idea
<jaminday> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/716997/bzr_crapping_itself.png
<ubuntujenkins> nice :-)
<nisshh> godbyk: im getting errors again
<godbyk> nisshh: what errors now?
<nisshh> godbyk: it says during make: (./frontmatter/glossary-entries.tex)
<nisshh> ! Incomplete \iffalse; all text was ignored after line 31.
<nisshh> <inserted text>
<nisshh>                 \fi
<nisshh> l.8 \input{frontmatter/glossary-entries}
<manualbot> nisshh: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<jaminday> manualbot: pffft...
<manualbot> jaminday: Error: "pffft..." is not a valid command.
<manualbot> Factoid 'pffft...' not found
<godbyk> nisshh: Hmm.. the error msg is useless.  Check to make sure you have matching {braces} everywhere in the frontmatter/glossary-entries.tex file.
<nisshh> omfg
<nisshh> finally
<nisshh> sorry about that godbyk
<godbyk> figure it out?
<nisshh> my ethernet got unplugged by my sister
<godbyk> heh.. nice!
<nisshh> lol, not
<nisshh> anyway, im getting the error i just posted during make
<godbyk> nisshh: Hmm.. the error msg is useless.  Check to make sure you have matching {braces} everywhere in the frontmatter/glossary-entries.tex file.
<nisshh> ok
<jaminday> Does anyone know... should open source always be written Open Source ??
<godbyk> jaminday: I was asking about that earlier.
<godbyk> I ended up going with "open source" and "open-source"
<jaminday> hmmm... hang on a sec
<godbyk> (the latter as an adjective, e.g., open-source software)
<godbyk> if you find a definitive solution, you should fix it everywhere. :-)
<jaminday> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/716997/Software%20Sources_005.png
<nisshh> godbyk: cant find anything wrong with the brackets
<jaminday> From this it looks like it's "Software Sources"
<jaminday> ah sorry "Open Source"
<godbyk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software
<jaminday> hmm.. seems to be conflicting versions everywhere
<godbyk> jaminday: but "they would make the use of open source software" from http://opensource.org/statements/bbc-drm
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> it's pretty messy.
<godbyk> I vote for lowercase.
<jaminday> yeah lowercase
<godbyk> And hyphenated when used as an adjective, open when as a noun.
<jaminday> if there is no hard and fast rule, that will look better
<jaminday> yep sounds good
<godbyk> "I like open source.  Do you like open-source software?"
<jaminday> "I like tomato sauce. Do you like tomato-sauce donuts?"
<jaminday> works there too
<godbyk> lol. yep.
 * ubuntujenkins why did they choose today to update the language packs
<godbyk> why did they choose today to kill launchpad? :)
<ubuntujenkins> true :D
<godbyk> jaminday: we'll have to sit down at some point (when things quiet down slightly) and work on a style guide.
<jaminday> yes definitely
<godbyk> the inconsistencies in the manual drive my bonkers.
<jaminday> hehe agreed
<nisshh> godbyk: have no idea what could be wrong
<godbyk> nisshh: pastebin the glossary-entries.tex file and I'll take a look and try it here.
<nisshh> godbyk: i triple checked all the syntax
<nisshh> ok hang on
<godbyk> nisshh: also, what's 'bzr revno' say?  (just so I know my version is in the same ballpark.
<godbyk> oh, great.
<godbyk> my auto-update cronjob on the website is gonna email me every n minutes because bzr is offline.
<godbyk> lovely.
<nisshh> bzr revno = 700
<jaminday> nisshh: btw - is there a glossary entry for 'proprietary'?
<nisshh> http://pastebin.com/h4jgvPRF
<nisshh> not yet
<godbyk> as in 'proprietary software'?
<nisshh> im still in the process of adding some
<nisshh> i only just finished adding yours
<jaminday> godbyk: yep - but referring to proprietary drivers
<jaminday> from software sources
<nisshh> jaminday: ill add one in once i get this issue resolved
<jaminday> Ok. I won't put any \gls commands on it then - i'll leave it for you when your ready.
<nisshh> jaminday: thanks
<nisshh> godbyk: can you have a look and get back to me in a little while, its dinner time for me
<nisshh> be back in a little while
<godbyk> nisshh: found it
<godbyk> nisshh: line 31
<godbyk> the dialup entry
<godbyk> you forgot the = after description
<godbyk> description={%
<daker> hi @all
<godbyk> hey, daker
<jaminday> evenin' daker
<godbyk> launchpad and bzr are down for a bit.
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<daker> that's what i thought
<daker> ubuntujenkins, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot
<daker> the page is not yet completed
<godbyk> well, since launchpad is down, I think I'll go get some sleep so I can wake up earlier and fix a few final things before the freeze.
<nisshh> godbyk: thanks, ill fix it now and push when lp comes online
<godbyk> only what, 12 hours remaining?
<jaminday> night godbyk
<godbyk> nisshh: sounds good.
<ubuntujenkins> thats great daker I will hopefully have the donwload info for the cd late tonight
<jaminday> yeah not long
<godbyk> I think when we freeze, we should do a branch so people can continue to work without breaking stride.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, here is hte mockup http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/quickshot.png
<jaminday> godbyk - i'll finish what i can on chap 5, but I only got about 2 hrs left. If you get a chance you might want to review it for anything i've missed.
<godbyk> but I'll let someone smarter than me figure out how to do all that.
<godbyk> jaminday: will do.
<jaminday> As i won't get another chance before writing freeze
<jaminday> godbyk: cheers
<godbyk> just ping me here and let me know what specific areas to look at or what to be on the watch for.
<jaminday> godbyk: no problem
<ubuntujenkins> daker: absolutely spot on I LOVE it
<jaminday> thanks for everything
<godbyk> daker: maybe add a little extra padding between the links at the top.
<godbyk> I'm off!
<ubuntujenkins> o/ godbyk
<daker> o.O
<daker> godbyk, on the navbar ?
<godbyk> daker: yeah.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> add some space between the links.  they're kind of running together a bit.
<daker> your in FF or Chrome ?
<daker> are*
<daker> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=mac1062_ubuntu1004&num=1
 * jaminday is using zsync for the first time to update his lucid iso
<humphreybc> hi, sorry guys, ended up drinking a few beers, watching the boxing and then apocolypse now
<ubuntujenkins> hello humphreybc can we address some of your bugs please
<daker> humphreybc, :)
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: sure
<humphreybc> hey daker
<dutchie> I have never seen apocalypse now sober
<ubuntujenkins> bug #552336
<manualbot> ubuntujenkins: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/552336)
<daker> hhh
<ubuntujenkins> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/552336
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 552336 in quickshot "Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: python-pylabel on Lucid LiveCD" [Low,New]
<humphreybc> ah yes
<humphreybc> it should be py-babel
<ubuntujenkins> did you enable universe?
<humphreybc> maybe not
<ubuntujenkins> its in universe, and its python-pybabel
<ubuntujenkins> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/552337
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 552337 in quickshot "PPA doesn't work with amd64 Lucid LiveCD USB pen drive" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<ubuntujenkins> which ppa were you using release or daily?
<humphreybc> uh
<humphreybc> there are two?
<humphreybc> I used the one on the getquickshot wiki
<ubuntujenkins> right that bug is also invalid then, there is no package in the release one yet. the daily is the only one that has a package in
<humphreybc> ahh
<humphreybc> that would explain that then
<ubuntujenkins> the release one is for releases only daily for testing
<ubuntujenkins> I have assigned you to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/552338 you did the logo :P
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 552338 in quickshot "Quickshot menu icon is blurry" [Low,New]
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> I see that
<humphreybc> what size does it have to be? and any particular format?
<humphreybc> godbyk, jaminday, I just read that email from Bryan for the FMC interview. I may as well take it seeing as I'm doing the UK one too?
<ubuntujenkins> I have no idea svg maybe the proplem also occurs in awn
<humphreybc> why is my bzr not working
<humphreybc> has launchpad taken down bzr too?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<humphreybc> bollocks
<ubuntujenkins> actually all the icosn seam  to be in png
<jaminday> humphreybc: yep, that's fine with me!
<jaminday> godbyk has gone to bed
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: what sizes?
<humphreybc> have all of the UMP bugs targeted to beta been fixed on launchpad?
<jaminday> humphreybc: i don't know. I was going to take a look at that tonight but think i'll run out of time.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: try 48x48
<humphreybc> jaminday: don't worry i'll have a look
<jaminday> ok
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: not sure it is the size, but i don't know what else it could be
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/quickshot-icon48.png
<humphreybc> will that work?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I will have a play
<humphreybc> neat
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I think that fixes the menu one replace yours and see what you think
<humphreybc> okay, where's it stored?
 * humphreybc wants to mark bugs as fixed but can't because of launchpad
<donri> humphreybc, should use the 10.04 background
<donri> like the new desktop icon
<humphreybc> oh right
<humphreybc> um
<humphreybc> i'll see if I have the source lying around somewhere
<donri> or maybe simply use the desktop icon
<humphreybc> I don't have the original source. I'll make a new icon some other time
<daker> i want a bugg icon pls (if you can)
<humphreybc> somehow we're going to have to figure out how to freeze the main 10.04 branch for 1st edition and then create a new branch for 10.04 second edition
<humphreybc> daker: what for?
<daker> for the "File a Bug" Button
<humphreybc> okay i should be able to do that
<humphreybc> daker, let me resize the quickshot reflection image for you properly
<humphreybc> the one on the website at the moment looks crappy
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> I'll resize it from source
<humphreybc> how wide is it?
<ubuntujenkins> daker have you done a "Download" button?
<daker> for what ?
<daker> Quickshot ?
<ubuntujenkins> the auickshot wiki
<ubuntujenkins> *quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: the icon also fixed awn
<daker> Width: 438 pixels
<daker> HeightÂ : 333 pixels
<daker> i'll send them to ubuntujenkins
<humphreybc> daker:
<humphreybc> this looks nicer
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/quickshot-reflection.png1
<ubuntujenkins> thanks daker
<humphreybc> wait
<humphreybc> without the 1
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/quickshot-reflection.png
<daker> nice
<humphreybc> stupid copy and paste in pidgin is broken
<humphreybc> so daker you need a bug icon? what size? colours?
<daker> 24*24 should be great
<daker> ubuntujenkins, send it
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/bug-24.png
<daker> hhhh nice
<ubuntujenkins> thanks daker
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: where's the icon for quickshot so i can replace it?
<ubuntujenkins> I am checking it now
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> launchpad is down till 1300 UTC
<humphreybc> so should be back up in 40 minutes
<humphreybc> also daker, that "Taking screenshots has never been easier" phrase on the Quickshot page needs to be really, really transparent
<humphreybc> (so make it a colour very close to white)
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: if you replace /usr/share/quickshot/media/icon.png
 * ubuntujenkins food time whilst launchpad is down
<humphreybc> much better
<daker> humphreybc, yes
<humphreybc> also daker, on the bottom of the "About" page under the heading "Interested?" the link should go to "Get Involved", not the wiki
 * humphreybc still needs mugshots of people
<daker> humphreybc, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/contributions ?
<humphreybc> yeah we don't want it pointing there
<humphreybc> we want to direct people to ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved
<humphreybc> (keep it on our website, we're moving away from the wiki)
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> also daker, what do you think of that aqua colour for links?
<humphreybc> the blue/green colour
<humphreybc> I think it works rather well with the gray font and white background
<nisshh> humphreybc: i cant make it to the meeting this weekend
<humphreybc> nisshh: don't fret, neither can I
<nisshh> ok
<daker> humphreybc, i don't know :)
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> you've got a CSS class with a hyperlink colour defined right?
<jaminday> humphreybc: should we cancel the meeting this weekend? it is easter long weekend after all - probably many people away?
<jaminday> Don't think i'll be around either
<nisshh> holy moly
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> maybe
<nisshh> no-one can make it pretty much
<jaminday> might just be godbyk in here talking to himself
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> daker: make the hyperlinks on the website HTML color code 44B4D5 and see how that works
<ubuntujenkins> what meeting when/ where?
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: doesn't look like we'll have one at this stage
<humphreybc> were going to have one this weekend
<daker> humphreybc, oki
<nisshh> hehe, i cant make it next weekend or the weekend after either
<humphreybc> nisshh: lol
<nisshh> doh!
<humphreybc> as long as you get that glossary done
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> we'll forgive you
<nisshh> hehehe
<humphreybc> you've got less than 12 hours now
<humphreybc> how's it looking?
<nisshh> excellent
<nisshh> got around 25+ entries now
<nisshh> and more to add
<humphreybc> oh fantastic
<humphreybc> estimated total amount
<humphreybc> ?
<humphreybc> (are you staying up all night?)
<nisshh> not all night
<jaminday> question for anyone... i thought the restricted and multiverse repositories were not enabled by default in Ubuntu
<nisshh> just for another 6 hours maybe
<humphreybc> jaminday: they aren't
<jaminday> i just did a fresh install of lucid in virtualbox and they are ticked
<ubuntujenkins> I thought not jaminday but if you install in the uk they are
<humphreybc> weird
<ubuntujenkins> at least that happens yo me
 * humphreybc has no idea then
<jaminday> ubuntujenkins: ah... maybe in australia it's the same?
<nisshh> humphreybc: no idea, how many i will end up with but probably around 30
<ubuntujenkins> jaminday: may be..
<humphreybc> nisshh: that's great
<nisshh> in australia multi and restricted are both enabled too
<jaminday> at the moment the manual says they are not enabled by default - think i will leave it at that just to be safe
<humphreybc> jaminday: yeah, you can't go wrong
<humphreybc> if they are enabled then people will be pleasantly surprised
<jaminday> nisshh: ok - i've never noticed that before
<humphreybc> if they're not, then we'd be right
<jaminday> humphreybc: yeah - or they will freak out!
<humphreybc> hey so I was thinking about this today
<nisshh> jaminday: i dont really know its just i never have to enable them manually
<humphreybc> what happens if say, the german manual has 45 screenshots in german, but 5 or 6 haven't been taken by the time final release comes around. What do?
<humphreybc> do we just insert the 5 or 6 english ones?
<daker> humphreybc, all the links ?
<jaminday> nisshh: that's weird. I have enabled them every time previously!
<humphreybc> we have to assume that not *all* translations will have *all* screenshots finished
<jaminday> humphreybc: hmm... it would look tacky having some translated screenshots and some not
<humphreybc> daker: yeah, site-wide. see how it looks. it's meant to be about the same colour as the "here" on the quickshot.png mockup down the bottom
<nisshh> jaminday: i havent had to do it since 8.10
<humphreybc> daker: try to get it as close to that colour as you can, it's a sort of light-blue with a hint of green... aka aqua
<humphreybc> jaminday: yeah but we wouldn't want to waste those 45 german screenshots
<daker> the hover color ?
<humphreybc> daker: haven't thought about that yet
<humphreybc> oh daker, keep the nav bar how it is though
<humphreybc> so orange hover
<daker> kk
<nisshh> huphreybc: maybe postpone that language release till 10.10?
<humphreybc> but the links in the body should become aqua
<jaminday> nisshh: that's strange. Maybe because i've previously done installs mainly on my laptop, and as theres no wi-fi connection until you get to the desktop it didn't know where i was from
<daker> kk
<humphreybc> um rollover... hmm
<humphreybc> maybe just a slightly lighter shade or something
<nisshh> jaminday: good point
<jaminday> humphreybc: yes that's true about not wasting screenshots. You could put in english ones, then in the caption say (taken from english version of manual etc...) or something
<humphreybc> don't change it from blue though, we want subtle minimalist type look here with a fairly small colour pallete. The buttons are the only things that break our colour pallete because we want them to stand out
<humphreybc> nisshh: wouldn't want to postpone an entire language just for some screenshots
<humphreybc> jaminday: yeah maybe but that could be a bit of work. I was thinking just making a decision based on how many aren't taken... if over 25% of them are not translated, then the entire manual will get english shots
<humphreybc> otherwise we do a mix
<nisshh> humphreybc: good point but its either that or have it looked half done
<humphreybc> nisshh: right but the way I see it is that no one will be expecting localized screenshots in the first place... hell, no one does that. no one supports 50 languages just with text, let alone with translated screenshots too
<jaminday> humphreybc: yes true. Although adding a disclaimer of sorts to the caption would just be a copy-paste job once that string has been translated once
<nisshh> humphreybc: true, i guess itll be ok then
<humphreybc> jaminday: yeah that could be a fairly easy compromise
<jaminday> i think it would look less tacky to point out that the screenshot is from english version rather than trying to pretend it's not
<jaminday> and hope no one notices!
<humphreybc> i suppose with < 25% of all screenshots, we'd only have to add captions for at most 12 shots in each language
<humphreybc> that's assuming all these languages are translated 100% to be released
<jaminday> yes true
<humphreybc> and that a fair amount miss out on english ones
<humphreybc> so in the end it probably won't be that hard of a task to add in disclaimer type notes
<humphreybc> in fact kevin could probably do it automatically by checking the source folder of the screenshot and seeing if it matches the locale of the manual, if not we add in a disclaimer....
<humphreybc> but the disclaimers won't be translated because they'd be added too late
<jaminday> kevin can do anything
<jaminday> yes that's a good point
<humphreybc> so would it look tacky having some english disclaimers beside some english screenshots in a german manual where 100% of the text is german and 75% of the screenshots are also in german?
<humphreybc> I was originally thinking we just wing it for this release, hope no one pays attention to the few screenshots that might not be translated
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: have you seen http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/ it shows the progress of each languages screenshots
<jaminday> how about put the disclaimer in english, then have another disclaimer stating that the first disclaimer is written in english...
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<jaminday> :P
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: that's awesome!
<ubuntujenkins> thats Red_HamsterX's work
<humphreybc> i love big pages with statistical overviews of progress
<humphreybc> means I can manage well... see if the estonians are lagging behind and kick them :P
<ubuntujenkins> also it lists the screenshots still needed for each language
<nisshh> thats so kickass
<humphreybc> daker, you should tidy up http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ and then add a small link to it somewhere in the website
<humphreybc> actually, scratch that, we won't need the public to see it
<humphreybc> dutchie: did you fix the stuff that was needed for that merge?
<humphreybc> and how was your driving test?
<nisshh> launchpad should be back in in around 10 minutes or less
<humphreybc> (01:54:22) deryck: adding an hour to LP downtime.  Sorry.
<jaminday> Closed-source packages are sometimes
<jaminday> referred to as non-free. This a reference to
<jaminday> freedom of speech, rather than monetary
<jaminday> cost. Payment is not required to use these
<jaminday> packages, however they are disabled by
<jaminday> default in Ubuntu to give users the choice of
<jaminday> a completely open-source operating system.
<jaminday> Is this accurate
<jaminday> ?
<nisshh> frick, another hour?
<humphreybc> yea
<humphreybc> looks like it
<nisshh> darn it all!
<jaminday> yeah that is a pain in the rear
 * humphreybc has to make an executive decision. stay up all night, or go to bed now.
<ubuntujenkins> darn I need to bug fix
<jaminday> can someone advise whether the paragraph above is ok? ^^
<nisshh> we should have checked this out days ago
<nisshh> it was posted to twitter a week ago
<nisshh> jaminday: looks fine to me
<jaminday> nisshh: thanks. Just wanted to make sure it was accurate
<humphreybc> ugh
 * ubuntujenkins starts the hovering
<humphreybc> I think it's more a licensing thing rather than "choice"
<humphreybc> but your explanation makes it simpler
<jaminday> ah ok. Yeah i didn't want to get too much into it, and i've mentioned the licensing thing a bit further down as well
 * humphreybc has been up 19 hours already
<jaminday> That was a margin note so trying to keep it simple.
 * humphreybc isn't tired
 * humphreybc doesn't need sleep
 * humphreybc is a machine
<jaminday> The power of positive thinking...
<humphreybc> I am a machine. I will stay up and work on the project.
<humphreybc> I'm going to test quickshot some more using the pen drive thing
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: so I just enabled the universe repos to get pybabel?
 * nisshh has been working on the glossary for 6 hours now
<humphreybc> go nisshh!
<nisshh> eeeeehhhhh...
<nisshh> lucky im a night time person
<humphreybc> lol
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: yes it should work if you do that
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> what PPA should I be using?
<humphreybc> or should I be using the .deb you sent me yesterdaY?
<ubuntujenkins> hand on i will mail you another version
<ubuntujenkins> *hang
<humphreybc> okay, thanks
<humphreybc> make it good
<humphreybc> :)
<ubuntujenkins> the ppa is out of date
<humphreybc> lol
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: sent, the ppa has none of the bug fixes but i can't update it
<humphreybc> ah right
<humphreybc> god, what the hell... "Biebergasm" is trending on twitter
<humphreybc> Come on, he's like.. 15.
<humphreybc> off to test quickshot
<humphreybc> back soon
<jaminday> hey ubuntujenkins - what's the quickshot ppa address?
<ubuntujenkins> daily or release jaminday
<jaminday> either - just need to test something in lucid with a ppa
<jaminday> actually daily, cos i think you said there aren't any packages in release yet
<ubuntujenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/+archive/quickshot-daily
<jaminday> ubuntujenkins: great, thanks
<daker> still 30min for launchpad ?
<ubuntujenkins> hopefully
<ubuntujenkins> EVERYONE: make sure we don't all rush to commit stuff at the same time we could get loads of conflicts and if the branch diverges don't forget bzr uncommit
<daker> kk
<nisshh> brb testing lubuntu out'
<daker> ubuntujenkins, Download Quickshot (the live CD) is pointing where ?
<daker> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/quickshot.png
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know daker godbyk is putting it on ubuntu-manual.org this evening
<ubuntujenkins> once i get it to him :P
<daker> kk
<ubuntujenkins> i will let you know asap
<daker> thanks
<daker> File a Bug is pointing here https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot ?
<ubuntujenkins> yep thats fine i need to change the wiki one
<daker> kk
<ubuntujenkins> daker: please delete the "edge." bit
<nisshh> so who wants to commit and push first?
<daker> sure
<daker> you nisshh
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> i do have the least disruptive changes too
<nisshh> is lp back up yet?
<daker> i did a pull and it works
<ubuntujenkins> yes nisshh
<nisshh> ok hang on then
 * daker is listening to Junior Caldera - Can't Fight This Feeling
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot might reach 220 revisions today
<daker> ubuntujenkins nisshh , BarÃ§a or Arsenal ?
<ubuntujenkins> neither not a football supporter
<nisshh> ok, next person go for it, dont forget to pull first
<jaminday> nisshh: i will be doing so soon
<jaminday> so so tired...
 * humphreybc is having no luck with computers
<ubuntujenkins> what have you done?
<humphreybc> well firstly I went into my pen drive live CD
<humphreybc> tested quickshot, worked quite well
<ubuntujenkins> only quite?
<humphreybc> then I thought I'd try the german translations, to see if that would work
<humphreybc> firstly downloaded the translations at like 400KB/s, then it told me the pen drive had run out of room
<dutchie> humphreybc: all my end of the poppler thing is done
<humphreybc> take 2: removed open office, ubuntu-docs, pitivi and some other programs/packages and tried to install german lang again
<dutchie> also, haven't had my test yet
<humphreybc> this time, it decided to download at a measly 8KB/s
<humphreybc> so that took about 45 minutes
<ubuntujenkins> ouch
<humphreybc> eventually I ran out of space (again!)
<humphreybc> and it turned out I didn't have the right packages, so I gave up
<humphreybc> boot back into Lucid and for some reason my Dell external LCD that I hook up to my laptop wasn't working with my VGA cable
<humphreybc> luckily I have two identical Dell monitors, two identical VGA cables
<humphreybc> so I swapped them all around and tested stuff
<humphreybc> looks like my VGA out port is either really really hot right now, or fried
<humphreybc> HDMI out works fine
<humphreybc> so I'll need to buy another HDMI cable
<humphreybc> all this at 3am
<humphreybc> sigh
<humphreybc> dutchie: that's great news
<humphreybc> is LP back up?
<daker> humphreybc, Need more help? See detailed instructions "here" , the "here" should be pointed
<ubuntujenkins> you don't haev much luck ben, yes it is up
<daker> humphreybc, where ?
<jaminday> dutchie: will the poppler stuff make it in to lucid?
<nisshh> lp is back up now
<humphreybc> daker: should be pointed to test.ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved
<humphreybc> (ie, to the Get Involved page)
<humphreybc> oh good now I can mark bugs and things
<daker> kk
<humphreybc> dutchie: so you fixed the stuff from Anders' comments?
<humphreybc> (about makefile and the annotations for the source)
<dutchie> seb128 is sorting the automake stuff, and I tagged the patch
<daker> i need a description for the quickshot page humphreybc
<humphreybc> dutchie: fantastic
<humphreybc> daker: a description? for google bot and the like?
<daker> yes
<jaminday> humphreybc: can i get rid of stuff on synaptic package manager in chapter 5?
<humphreybc> jaminday: what's it talk about?
<jaminday> basically introduces it as 'a more advanced tool', then talks a little bit about how to use it
<humphreybc> daker: um... just take the first sentence from the page: "Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process."
<jaminday> it needs a lot of work to make it useful for newbies
<ubuntujenkins> the live cd user name is ubuntu and the password is empty ie no characters or letters on numbers just nothing can we make sure that is is mentioned on the website
<jaminday> i reckon we will be better off leaving it for 10.10
<humphreybc> jaminday: right but we need to touch on it. From what I've seen, it's not that bad. We should probably leave it
<ubuntujenkins> daker: ^^ my last comment
<humphreybc> jaminday: if you can cut it down to an overview or something
<humphreybc> at least a section that acknowledges its existance
<jaminday> ok. I think we will confuse people if we start directing them on how to use it, unless we explain it really well.
<humphreybc> right
<jaminday> I will leave a mention in and take the rest out for now, then revisit for 10.10
<humphreybc> so take out the directions (comment, don't delete)
<humphreybc> yeap
<jaminday> yep
<humphreybc> find a community docs page that talks about it and link to that for more info
<jaminday> ok i'll link to this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto
<humphreybc> good idea
<humphreybc> jaminday: you fixed bug 546295 and bug 546299 ?
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 546295 in ubuntu-manual "Confusing use of 'gksudo' in 'sudo' paragraph" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546295
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 546299 in ubuntu-manual "Use of sudo in terminal without explanation on password" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546299
<ubuntujenkins> thanks for adding the button to the wiki daker
<humphreybc> also, ubuntujenkins, I just reported a new bug... bug 552544
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 552544 in quickshot "Error on creating new user with Ubuntu Live CD" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552544
<nisshh> anyone currently editing chapter 6?
<humphreybc> don't think so
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: what error?
<nisshh> ok cool, im going to add all my glossary stuff for chapter 6 now
<jaminday> humphreybc: nope, i had planned to do these but haven't had time.
<humphreybc> can't remember what the error is exactly
<humphreybc> it's not an ugly error
<humphreybc> it just says something like "Error, the user cannot be created"
<jaminday>  humphreybc: you might want to take a look if you have time
<humphreybc> but if you hit close, then log out, you'll see the quickshot user is there but there is no image in the login screen
<humphreybc> I don't think it's that important because we'll have our own Live CD.
<humphreybc> and it does actually work, just throws the error anyway
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: what did you use as the sudo password? for the ubuntu user?
<humphreybc> blank, no password
<humphreybc> (unsafe storage)
<humphreybc> that could have been the problem?
<ubuntujenkins> o ok i need to test this
<daker> ubuntujenkins, ,no problemo we are a team :)
<humphreybc> hey so daker are you planning on implementing all your changes in the public daker folder?
<humphreybc> so apart from the countdown, they should practically be the same
<humphreybc> we definitely want the quickshot stuff at ubuntu-manual.org by the time quickshot is released later today
<ubuntujenkins> I am just going to do some quickshot testing I will be back
<daker> kk humphreybc
<humphreybc> :)
<daker> someone is pushing ?
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual$ bzr pull
<daker> Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker> No revisions to pull.
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual$ bzr add
<daker> adding website/daker-test/images/bug_quickshot.png
<daker> adding website/daker-test/images/quickshot11.png
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual$ bzr commit
<daker> Committing to: /home/daker/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual/
<daker> modified website/daker-test/css/style.css
<daker> modified website/daker-test/css/style_rtl.css
<daker> added website/daker-test/images/bug_quickshot.png
<daker> modified website/daker-test/images/quickshot.png
<daker> added website/daker-test/images/quickshot11.png
<daker> modified website/daker-test/includes/config.php
<daker> modified website/daker-test/includes/languages/ubu_man_website_translations.pot
<daker> modified website/daker-test/pages/about.php
<daker> modified website/daker-test/pages/quickshot.php
<daker> Committed revision 703.
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual$ bzr push
<daker> Using saved push location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  See "bzr help diverged-branches" for more information.
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual$
<daker> dutchie, help!!
<dutchie> what does "bzr missing" say?
<daker> You have 1 extra revision(s):
<daker> ------------------------------------------------------------
<daker> revno: 703
<daker> committer: Adnane Belmadiaf <adnane002@gmail.com>
<daker> branch nick: ubuntu-manual
<daker> timestamp: Wed 2010-03-31 14:39:34 +0200
<daker> message:
<daker>   *Filled out the Quickshot page's text
<daker>   *Added Strings for translations
<daker> You are missing 1 revision(s):
<daker> ------------------------------------------------------------
<daker> revno: 703
<daker> committer: Ryan Macnish <nisshh@hotmail.com>
<daker> branch nick: ubuntu-manual
<daker> timestamp: Wed 2010-03-31 22:39:24 +0800
<daker> message:
<humphreybc> you can probably safely go bzr merge
<daker>   Linked some glossary entries in ch6.
<humphreybc> no one else will be working on the website
<humphreybc> so there should be no conflicts
<dutchie> yeah, merge t
<dutchie> it
<daker> then bzr push ?
<humphreybc> daker, just run bzr merge
<humphreybc> try bzr push first
<daker> done
<humphreybc> there you go :P
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual$ bzr merge
<daker> Merging from remembered parent location bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker>  M  command-line/command-line.tex
<daker> All changes applied successfully.
<humphreybc> http://wubuntu.co.cc/
<humphreybc> check out that
<daker> should i did bzr push ?
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> try bzr push
<humphreybc> if that doesn't work, commit again and then push
<nisshh> yea sorry that commit was me
<nisshh> no-one was working on ch6 so i went ahead
<daker> what's message should i write ? humphreybc
<humphreybc> daker just go "merging"
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: bug comfirmed just working on a fix
<humphreybc> neat
<ubuntujenkins> does anyone know the proper url for the ubuntu home page (the yahoo search bar) about:home doesn't work on the live cd.
<nisshh> anyone editing default-apps?
<jaminday> nisshh: nope don't think so
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> dont edit it then
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: http://start.ubuntu.com/10.04/
<ubuntujenkins> thanks humphreybc that should work
<ubuntujenkins> off to test if this bug is fixed
<daker> http://wubuntu.co.cc/ not pretty :s
<humphreybc> lol
<dutchie> I think it's quite pretty
<nisshh> humphreybc: i think im mostly finished, if you grab the latest revision you can have a look at what iv done
 * humphreybc likes it too
<humphreybc> nisshh: sweet
<daker> dutchie, since the website uses Arial font we no alternative
<daker> html, body{
<daker> 	padding: 0;
<daker> 	margin: 0;
<daker> 	background: #fff;
<daker> 	font-family: Arial;
<daker> }
<daker> Arial is not provided with ubuntu by default
<humphreybc> Do Arial then Verdana then Sans or something
<humphreybc> as backups
<humphreybc> what's the one that comes with OS X?
<daker> humphreybc,  the website = http://wubuntu.co.cc/
<humphreybc> (if you could figure out a way for everyone in the world to see Droid Sans on the site without using images that would be even better :P )
<humphreybc> oh right
<daker> not our ubuntu-manual.org
<humphreybc> so that website is just some people who have taken the mock up from the canonical design team and actually built it from scratch
<nisshh> humphreybc: total of 24 entries linked in
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: bug fixed it was caused by a missing "s"
<nisshh> missing just one that i havent put in yet
<humphreybc> ok
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: that's a nice bug
<daker> ubuntujenkins, shit "s" dirty bugg
<humphreybc> dutchie: you'll need to figure out how we're going to fork the main branch for 2nd edition
<daker> humphreybc, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot
<nisshh> humphreybc: the default OSX font is: OSX-is-shit.ttf
<humphreybc> daker, not bad... some feedback
<humphreybc> the "Taking screenshots has never been easier" is now huge and really obvious
<humphreybc> (when it's supposed to be really subtle)
<humphreybc> I don't think you've replaced the image of quickshot with the new one
<dutchie> humphreybc: yes I will
<humphreybc> steps 2. and 3. have a bracket at the end when they should have
<humphreybc> ie, "Create a Quickshot user and login)"
<daker> i'llbe back
<humphreybc> okay :)
<nisshh> jaminday: was it you who wanted a glossary entry for the word "proprietary"?
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: I might fix up the quickshot wiki somewhat
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: no probelm I am rubish at writing , dispite all my work in the manual
<humphreybc> no worries
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: where should the download quickshot button point to?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: we don't know, I will update it as soon as i do
<humphreybc> ok
<jaminday> nisshh: yep. I'm just pushing changes to chapter 5 now, and i added a \todo with a few glossary terms that you might want to add
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: give me a list of features for quickshot for my OMG! blog post on it
<ubuntujenkins> looking good can you link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/about
<humphreybc> that page is mostly irrelevant now
<ubuntujenkins> fair enough
<ubuntujenkins> it auto crops pictures
<ubuntujenkins> resizes peoples resolution automatically
<ubuntujenkins> you can compare yours with samples
<ubuntujenkins> *screenshot
<ubuntujenkins> works for all the languages, we have a custom lice cd with all of the languges on
<ubuntujenkins> The screenshot list can be updated for last minute additions/chnages like kevin suggested this morning
<ubuntujenkins> over all it simplifies the proccess a lot
<ubuntujenkins> it deals with compiz and metacy
<ubuntujenkins> not sure what else
<nisshh> jaminday: have you pushed those TODO's to lp yet?
<ubuntujenkins> compiz screenshots often miss the borders when taken with the normal program
<nisshh> jaminday: coz i cant find that todo item you added
<jaminday> i'm trying - my computer is having a seizure
<nisshh> jaminday: hehe, sounds more like heart failure
<jaminday> hehe yeah it's something not great!
<jaminday> might have to gimme a couple of minutes, think i need to do a restart
<jaminday> brb
<nisshh> jaminday: all good?
<jaminday> grrrr... it's 2:30am, why does it have to go and crap on me now!
<humphreybc> it's 4:30am here lopl
<humphreybc> lol*
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> humphreybc: you win
<nisshh> hehe its only 11:30pm here
<humphreybc> nisshh: where are you?
<jaminday> i am so tired, and got a massive day at work tomorrow!
<ubuntujenkins> only 4.33pm here
<nisshh> western aussie
<nisshh> jaminday must be EST
<humphreybc> jaminday: I thought you were in western Aus to
<humphreybc> too*
<jaminday> nisshh: wow, didn't realise you were so different over there
<nisshh> hehe
<jaminday> humphreybc: nope, i'm NSW
<jaminday> about an hour north of sydney
<nisshh> yea thought so
<nisshh> im 2 hours south of perth
<jaminday> ah ok
<jaminday> ok this is ridiculous
<nisshh> whats the matter lol?
<jaminday> maybe manualbot can help
<jaminday> nisshh: i have no idea. I try to pull and it does nothing for ages
<nisshh> doubt it, its always telling me how stupid it is
<jaminday> then gives me an error saying it couldn't get a lock on the directory or something
<nisshh> jaminday: did you restart?
<jaminday> hehe yeah stupid manualbot
<ubuntujenkins> jaminday: are you using ground control?
<jaminday> nisshh: no i cheated and thought a logout might cut it
<jaminday> ironically to save time
<nisshh> jaminday: restart
<nisshh> hehe
<jaminday> ok, brb again
<nisshh> damn, im having a really good week this week\
<nisshh> which is a rarity
<nisshh> brb
<jaminday> round 3... fight
<jaminday> still not looking good
<ubuntujenkins> jaminday: can you post the error please
<jaminday> ok - i'm still waiting. It does nothing for ages then it pops up.
<jaminday> (i'm using olive btw)
<nisshh> jaminday: use the cmd and type: bzr launchpad-login <username>
<nisshh> then go bzr push lp:ubuntu-manual
<jaminday> nisshh: ok. Might wait for it to finish trying to do whatever it's doing first so i don't freak it out more
<nisshh> jaminday: hit control + c to force it to stop
<jaminday> it's ok, just stopped
<jaminday> Unknown bzr error
<jaminday> Could not acquire lock "LockDir(file:///home/jamin/Projects/ubuntu-manual/lp%3Aubuntu-manual/.bzr/branch/lock)":
<ubuntujenkins> I think you need to do bzr break-lock /home/jamin/Projects/ubuntu-manual/lp%3Aubuntu-manual/.bzr/branch/lock at the command line
<nisshh> +1
<nisshh> iv had that error before
<jaminday> ok here goes
<jaminday> ok did that, now try and pull?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<nisshh> yep
<nisshh> then commit any changes and push
<nisshh> humphreybc: have you seen my work yet?
<humphreybc> yep, briefly, going to have a proper look now
<nisshh> ok thanks
<nisshh> last day of college before holidays tomorrow!
<humphreybc> same here
<nisshh> really? cool!
<jaminday> ok
<jaminday> pulling now
<nisshh> ok
<daker> humphreybc, when it's supposed to be really subtle - how ?
<jaminday> didn't work the first time, had to do bzr break-lock file:///home/jamin/Projects/ubuntu-manual/lp%3Aubuntu-manual/.bzr/branch
<humphreybc> daker, make the font size smaller and the colour of the font very light gray
<humphreybc> it's not that important, you could easily remove that string if you want
<daker> no no
<humphreybc> nisshh: if you're going to have minimize you should probably have maximize too
<nisshh> yea, is maximize even mentioned in the manual anywhere?
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<jaminday> gah, slow internet!
<nisshh> jaminday: i hate slow internet too! what speed is yours?
<jaminday> well it's usually 1500/256, but now that its past 2am im into offpeak time
<humphreybc> nisshh: maybe
<jaminday> which is shaped cos i went over the limit!
<humphreybc> also nisshh, desktop environment perhaps?
<jaminday> running at 128/128 now which is painful
<jaminday> ok nisshh, pushing now
<nisshh> jaminday: lol i have the same speed, but you have that on-peak off-peak shit!?!?!?
<jaminday> nisshh: yep!
<jaminday> our internet is so crap in Aus
<nisshh> humphreybc: yea another good one
<nisshh> jaminday: got that right!
<nisshh> got someones r706
<humphreybc> ha! you haven't tried NZ net...
<humphreybc> nisshh: I just fixed some typos in the glossary entries and pushed
<nisshh> humphreybc: does your ISPs DNS server reqularly stop working
<humphreybc> nisshh: not quite
<nisshh> humphreybc: thanks
<nisshh> and does your ISP take 3 months to upgrade your plan?
<nisshh> thats why aussie ISPs are gay
<jaminday> nisshh: +1
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> hehe
<jaminday> nisshh: yep r706 was me
<nisshh> should write a blog post about crap ISPs
<nisshh> cool
<jaminday> hope i put the \todo's in after all that
 * humphreybc has some sweet posts lined up for OMG! Ubuntu! ready and waiting for when we hit beta/writing freeze/quickshot release etc
<jaminday> i probably forgot
<nisshh> hehe
 * ubuntujenkins can't wait to see how many quickshot bugs we get. We are not going to get any :P
<jaminday> Well, humphreybc, i'm officially hanging up my keyboard for the first 10.04 release of UMP!
<humphreybc> heh
<jaminday> ...and going to bed!
<humphreybc> darn you
<ubuntujenkins> night jaminday
<humphreybc> i still have the rest of the morning
<humphreybc> night jamin!
<jaminday> night all
<nisshh> nighty night
<jaminday> yeah i would help out more in the morning but i'll be at work, so this is it for me
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: i'm sure the bugs will pour in :P
<nisshh> ill be up another hour for sure
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> well, we've done good
<jaminday> yeah, not a bad effort all things considered
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> im happy with it
<jaminday> anyway, i'm off.
<humphreybc> 5am..
<ubuntujenkins> 5 pm
<humphreybc> last time I was awake at this time was for 48 hours
<nisshh> humphreybc: now you know what its like for me at meetings
<humphreybc> hahaha
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> im up till 6am EVERY meeting
<humphreybc> good times
<ubuntujenkins> we have 8 hours
<humphreybc> Luke, when are you aiming to release quickshot?
<nisshh> oh, i thought we had les than that
 * humphreybc hopes he doesn't break the quickshot branch by just adding in some images
<ubuntujenkins> hopefully before the manual freeze I am waiting for Red_HamsterX to wake up
 * ubuntujenkins hopes not
<ubuntujenkins> what are you adding?
<humphreybc> two images, but hang on
<nisshh> lol guess what?
<nisshh> jamindays todos never made it to lp
<ubuntujenkins> what, your internet is broken?
<humphreybc> nisshh: lol
<humphreybc> oh well
<nisshh> after all that
<humphreybc> looks like they won't get done :P
<humphreybc> where's godbyk, he should be up by now
<nisshh> meh i know he wanted proprientary in there
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> proprietary*
<nisshh> godbyk!!!!!!
<nisshh> yea thats what i said
<ubuntujenkins> right I have to cook food I will be back in about 2 hours.
<ubuntujenkins> leaving irc on
<humphreybc> ok
<nisshh> humphreybc: you finished with the glossary-entries.tex file?
<humphreybc> yep
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> oh crap! my left arms starting to go dead from too much typing lol
<humphreybc> hahaha
<nisshh> not funny...
<humphreybc> okay i'm going to tackle these last TODOs in the manual
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> so as far as i know i have 3 items to add to the glossary yea?
<humphreybc> I think so
<humphreybc> I'll try to think of some more
<nisshh> if you cant, dont worry 27 is a good amount for now
<daker> humphreybc, i'll rename the daker directory to daker.old and create an new one called daker-countdown with the new changes
<humphreybc> nisshh: hahaha
<humphreybc> daker... okay but that will probably break the auto-update thing
<humphreybc> you'll need to talk to godbyk first
<humphreybc> you can rename them, but he'll have to change the thing on his end
<nisshh> humphreybc: im not sure what to add as the description for: proprietary
<humphreybc> otherwise the entire site will go down :)
<nisshh> and we dont want that
<humphreybc> nisshh: hmm... Proprietary: "Software and drivers that don't release their source code under the GPL license."
<humphreybc> or just software
<nisshh> thanks, thats a good one
<daker> humphreybc, so i'll wait for godbyk
<humphreybc> "Software made by companies that don't release their source code under the GPL license."
<humphreybc> daker: yep
<humphreybc> good idea :)
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> we were up to rev 561 on march 24th
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/561 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 561
<humphreybc> that was 7 days ago
<humphreybc> now we're over 700
<nisshh> humphreybc: maybe we shouldnt specify the GPL
<humphreybc> okay, just say open source licenses
<humphreybc> or something like this
<nisshh> because you have the BSD licence and such
<humphreybc> yeah, and CC
<nisshh> right
<humphreybc> that's a good point
<humphreybc> generalize it to open source licenses
<nisshh> yep
<daker> humphreybc, should i add this http://ubuntu-manual.org/?audiobook ?
<humphreybc> heh, you found it, nice work daker :P
<humphreybc> that's just a temporary page for the next couple of days
<daker> hhh
<humphreybc> it has to stay with that URL but it needn't be included in test.ubuntu-manual
<daker> kk
<nisshh> humphreybc: got any ideas fr a description for desktop environment
<humphreybc> I there might be something in the prologue
<humphreybc> but maybe something like "A generic term to describe a GUI interface for humans to interact with computers. There are many desktop environments such as GNOME, KDE and LXDE to name a few."
<nisshh> cant find it
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> I can't wait to change all the FIx Committed to Fix Released later today...
<humphreybc> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/beta-release
<nisshh> hehe, exciting
<nisshh> i think people will be pleased with what we have achieved in such a short space of time
<humphreybc> daker, your recent revisions to the site look good
<humphreybc> daker: for the link colour, try making it one shade darker :P
<nisshh> lol, my dads pissing his pants he wants to see it so badly
<humphreybc> awesome
<nisshh> hehe, he doesnt even know what ubuntu is
<humphreybc> daker, also, the "Interested?" section should become just: "Click here to find out how you can get involved."
<humphreybc> the "here" should be a link to http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved
<humphreybc> so remove the "Head over to our wiki page for .... etc" bit, that's irrelevant now
<humphreybc> nisshh: lol nice!
<humphreybc> it looks cool when it's printed
<daker> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved or http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved ?
<humphreybc> do test for now
<humphreybc> then we'll have to change it when we change over the sites
<daker> kk
<nisshh> wooo! almost done!
<humphreybc> gnarly
<humphreybc> good news!
<humphreybc> looks like bug 248355 will make it
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 248355 in poppler "Evince doesn't anti-alias graphics" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248355
<nisshh> yay!
<nisshh> thats good, nice smooth graphics
<nisshh> i dont know if that version will be included in lucid though
 * Red_HamsterX shatters hopes.
<nisshh> hopefully it will
<nisshh> hehe
<Red_HamsterX> I had some stuf to take care of, ubuntujenkins. :(
<Red_HamsterX> I'll go over all remaining open bugs now.
<Red_HamsterX> How many hours do we have left?
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: don't worry sorry for disapearing last night my laptop over heated
<ubuntujenkins> about 7 hours
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, that should be plenty of time...
<humphreybc> yes, it's already been pushed to main
<humphreybc> so it'll be in the next round of lucid updates I believe
<ubuntujenkins> I guessed you were busy Red_HamsterX
<Red_HamsterX> Life happens. :(
 * Red_HamsterX kills life.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> don't worry, we've got tonnes of time
<humphreybc> and quickshot doesn't have to meet the deadline as strictly as UMP
<ubuntujenkins> It would be good if it could
<humphreybc> yeah
<ubuntujenkins> back after i have eaten
<humphreybc> it would be nice :)
<nisshh> good
<humphreybc> but if it's a few hours behind i'm sure the world won't explode
<nisshh> ok, im just testing my final glossary changes
<nisshh> seem to be all good
<humphreybc> sweet
<nisshh> pushing them now
 * humphreybc needs more mugshots
<nisshh> done!
<nisshh> hehe, who dont you have?
<humphreybc> fantastic!
<humphreybc> not sure but I don't have enough
<humphreybc> I need at least another dozen or so
<humphreybc> there are tonnes of translators who haven't submitted any
<nisshh> all we need to do is call google and ask them to go around in the google street car
<nisshh> i doubt they will
<nisshh> most of them probably dont know about the announcement
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> oh well
<nisshh> aw, i really wanna know what your doing with them now
<nisshh> dammit im curious
<Red_HamsterX> I want to know, too~
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: I don't have yours, do I?
<Red_HamsterX> You do not.
<Red_HamsterX> Find a picture of a cat.
<humphreybc> I've got 36 but most of those are from KanchiLUG (Tamil translating team)
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> awh come on now, you can't be camera shyt
<Red_HamsterX> Yes, I can!
<humphreybc> shy, even
<Red_HamsterX> I haven't had a haircut in a while. :(
<nisshh> humphreybc: i was gonna send you a picture of tux originally
<Red_HamsterX> And I need to shave.
<humphreybc> find me a picture of a cat that you would like to represent you
<nisshh> or a hampster!
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> hamster!
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> i really like lucid far more compared to any other release
<nisshh> its just so damn cool!
<humphreybc> haha
<nisshh> i really like it when you get a red menu button in the top right
<nisshh> after a kernel update
<nisshh> so sleep
<nisshh> so sleek
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> omg i cant wait for 10.10 now
<nisshh> lool
 * humphreybc sighs
<humphreybc> no doubt that'll be fun for UMP too
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> you should be very proud of what you have achieved
<nisshh> its a big thing
<humphreybc> me? heh, we all did it :)
<nisshh> yea i know, but you started it, you motivated us, kept us going
 * humphreybc blushes!
<nisshh> lol
<humphreybc> I dids my best :)
<nisshh> so did we all i think
<nisshh> i really feel like iv given back to ubuntu now though
<nisshh> gives me warm fuzzies!
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> yay
<nisshh> this is just the start for me though
<humphreybc> that's awesome to hear :)
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> kickass!
<nisshh> tell you what, this week has probably been the best week of my life
<humphreybc> heh, really?
<nisshh> oh yea, i havent felt this good in ages
<humphreybc> awesome!
<nisshh> yea, and the sheer amount that iv learnt this year alone is enough to open me a can of woopass!
<humphreybc> haha awesome, and this year has only just started too
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> it morning for you yet?
<humphreybc> it's 6:10am :P
<nisshh> meh, its only 1am here
<daker> o.O humphreybc
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> nisshh: that's early!
<daker> 17:10 pm
<humphreybc> daker, i need a photo of you btw
<nisshh> lol, yep
<nisshh> daker: you lucky bugger
<daker> now ? i don't got one
<humphreybc> not right now
<nisshh> lol
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> but at some point over the next couple of days :)
<humphreybc> you have to be smiling!
<daker> i don't like to be smiling :)
<daker> 800*600 ?
<nisshh> i think i frowned in mine lol
 * dutchie is in a happy state
<humphreybc> dutchie: you passed?
<dutchie> humphreybc: I meant in the photo
<humphreybc> oh
<dutchie> humphreybc: test's not til the 19th
<nisshh> dutchie: what test is this?
<dutchie> driving
<nisshh> oooh, im about to go for my logbook too
<nisshh> in a few weeks maybe
<humphreybc> secret thing is awesome
<nisshh> humphreybc: huh?
<daker> humphreybc, a secret thing http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/?v
<humphreybc> the thing I need your photos for
<humphreybc> it's awesome
<nisshh> oh meh
 * humphreybc has been working on it for a while
 * dutchie leaves for the train
<nisshh> must be pretty good then
<humphreybc> you have trains!
<dutchie> see you folks tomorrow
<humphreybc> see ya dutchie
<humphreybc> thanks!
<nisshh> cya
<daker> bye
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ubuntujenkins is back
<nisshh> humphreybc: when are you going to show us what it is?
<humphreybc> nisshh: in a couple of weeks
<humphreybc> when it's ready :)
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, I'm still quasi-AFK.
<nisshh> hehe, on final release?
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<daker> waw we pushed up 715 rev
<nisshh> aw crap i think i know what your working on humphreybc!
<humphreybc> what do you think it is?
<nisshh> ok, i reckon its a video that goes on the contributors page of the new website
<ubuntujenkins> I agree
<humphreybc> you could be right
<nisshh> hehe it is
<humphreybc> or, you could be wrong
<nisshh> theres a video goes here thing on there
<daker> humphreybc, +1
<ubuntujenkins> there is indeed
<nisshh> unless its a trick...
<nisshh> gonna be ironic if i guess right
<daker> humphreybc, There were warnings while parsing the file.  These are not
<daker> fatal, but please correct them if you can.
<daker> Line 268: We got a second header.
<daker> Thank you,
<daker> The Launchpad team
<daker> ah i found the mistake
 * daker thought that hi finished all the website stuffs
 * ubuntujenkins arrgh laptop lock up
<ubuntujenkins> I can only use xchat
 * nisshh reckons he should stay up all night watching movies and then go to college and do work tomorrow
<daker> humphreybc, providecommand{\polang}{en} the {en} should be replaced by {fr} when translating to frensh ?
 * nisshh says he must get sleep though
 * nisshh is ignoring his predator insticts however
 * nisshh says his brain is arguing with itself
<humphreybc> daker, I *think* so
<daker> the {en} tell Latex to use the english po file so for the frensh we have to use {fr}
<daker> french*
<daker> awesome in 2 weeks we have made a great job on the website
<humphreybc> daker: indeed we have, thanks to you!
<Red_HamsterX> It's very pretty. :)
<humphreybc> best open source website out there :P
<daker> :)
<humphreybc> (well, it sure beats the docs team)
<ubuntujenkins> http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?day=01&month=04&year=2010&hour=0&min=0&sec=0&p0=0
<ubuntujenkins> we own the docs team, have they looked at the manual recently?
<humphreybc> just what we need lol
<humphreybc> not sure... they might be keeping an eye on it
<humphreybc> they certainly will know about us after today with the amount of announcements and crap i've got waiting
<ubuntujenkins> the amount of stick you got at the start
<humphreybc> ha, yea
<daker> the docs team website's ?
<humphreybc> daker: they don't have one, well, they have a wiki page
<humphreybc> ;)
<daker> aaaaaaaaah
<nisshh> hehehehe
 * nisshh has decided to stay up all night watching movies
<humphreybc> nisshh: haha!
<nisshh> ill sit in the channel and listen while i watch a few of my 230GB's of movies
<humphreybc> fair nuff
<nisshh> hehe\
<humphreybc> you're on holidays now right?
<daker> 230Gb o.O
<ubuntujenkins> are there any ubuntu one screenshots?
<nisshh> as of tomorrow after college i am
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: don't think so
<ubuntujenkins> good ubuntu one can come off of the cd
<humphreybc> haha
<nisshh> daker: thats nothing, i know a guy with over 900GB of movies
<nisshh> THATS insane!
<nisshh> anyway im gonna watch some shit now
 * Red_HamsterX has over 9TB... if commercial DVDs count for their full recorded capacity.
<daker> awesome
<Red_HamsterX> MPEG2 forever!
 * daker has 0bytes of movies :D
<ubuntujenkins> as long as no one adds any more languages the cd will be fine
 * Red_HamsterX has no pirated stuff.
<nisshh> Red_HamsterX: if you rip dvds thats counted as pirating lol
<Red_HamsterX> I do not.
<daker> nisshh, no
<nisshh> even if you buy them first
<nisshh> how did you get them legally?
<Red_HamsterX> And no, it isn't. It's just a violation of American's DMCA.
<Red_HamsterX> (If they have CSS)
<Red_HamsterX> America's*
<humphreybc> godbyk, daker, Red_HamsterX, i'll need your pictures by tomorrow :)
<humphreybc> and if you don't want to include a picture then you're missing out!
<daker> o.O
<humphreybc> it doesn't have to be anything fancy
<humphreybc> only pre-requisite is that you're smiling
<humphreybc> :)
<daker> you said = <humphreybc> but at some point over the next couple of days :)
<humphreybc> yeah i changed my mind :)
<humphreybc> I want to get all the pictures so I can work out some stuff
<humphreybc> I think i'm only missing you guys from the core team
<daker> how much pictures have you got at moment ?
<humphreybc> bout 36
<ubuntujenkins> this is not good my laptop has got stuck again I am going to wait this one out to see if it fixes its self
<ubuntujenkins> its the live cd builds that are killing it
<humphreybc> oh no
<ubuntujenkins> it this working
<humphreybc> yes
<ubuntujenkins> how can i edit quickshot using only xchat?
<ubuntujenkins> ooo my computer works!
<Red_HamsterX> I don't know how to smile. :(
<Red_HamsterX> I could flip a frown...
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> stop whinging and JFD
<Red_HamsterX> Fixing lack of default screenshot selection thingy now.
<daker> still 5 hours, 53 minutes
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: to add more screenshots all i have to do is add them to the server dictionary file right? Also which corners do the coordiantes refer too?, where is the origin?
<Red_HamsterX> Origin is top-left.
<Red_HamsterX> Setting a negative value inverts it to be the opposite side of the window.
<Red_HamsterX> The values are [left top width height]
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<daker> Red_HamsterX, if you don't how to smile just say Sheeeeeeeeeze
<Red_HamsterX> [-20 0 40 50] will capture the group of pixels 60-20 from the right side of the window.
<daker> know*
<Red_HamsterX> (Inverted values count inwards)
<Red_HamsterX> (To make it easy to do a -1 if you just want the right edge)
<Red_HamsterX> And, yes, you just add an entry.
<Red_HamsterX> Make sure you put it in a place that makes sense.
<Red_HamsterX> The order int he dictionary is what the clients see.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> i'm going to grab a shower before the flatmates steal my hot water
<ubuntujenkins> 346 minutes left
<Red_HamsterX> How do you want to handle the return to the srceenshot list, ubuntujenkins?
<Red_HamsterX> We could do one of two things pretty easily:
<Red_HamsterX> 1) just select the first item
<Red_HamsterX> 2) select nothing
<ubuntujenkins> select nothing
<Red_HamsterX> Or a third possibility: select the next logical item in the list
<ubuntujenkins> next logical if possible
<Red_HamsterX> Selecting nothing will do what it does now, just returning the labels to their original state.
<ubuntujenkins> if you make the original state we can make the labels blank, that is the quickest way to solve it
<ubuntujenkins> what did you use to reduce the quality of the screenshot examples?
<ubuntujenkins> trying to make them consistant
<Red_HamsterX> "convert <png> -compress JPEG -quality 70 <same-name.jpg>"
<Red_HamsterX> Requires imagemagick or graphicsmagick-imagemagick-compat
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<Red_HamsterX> Do we want to show the user the list of approved screenshots or just exclude them entirely?
<ubuntujenkins> exclude any approved ones
<Red_HamsterX> It's currently set to exclude them, since there's no point in having them uploaded twice and making the list longer.
<ubuntujenkins> some how in a bzr add command i have added a quickshot.pot translation file
<Red_HamsterX> That'll be useful for 1.0.
<ubuntujenkins> I didn't make it though and it has almost nothing in it
<Red_HamsterX> Probably better to leave it alone for now.
<Red_HamsterX> Just in case some Glade attribute relies on it.
<ubuntujenkins> that might be where it came from
<ubuntujenkins> pushed qr195
<Red_HamsterX> I love how we're working around the bot.
<humphreybc> poor manualbot
<ubuntujenkins> its a good work around
<ubuntujenkins> manualbot only gives us the wrong revision any way
<manualbot> ubuntujenkins: Error: "only" is not a valid command.
<manualbot> ubuntujenkins: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Red_HamsterX> 12:28 < flan`kiwi> YUO, manualbot?
<Red_HamsterX> 12:28 <@PyRC> flan`kiwi, i ate a whole... .4lb block of code.
<Red_HamsterX> That's what my bot has to say about it.
<humphreybc> lol\
<ubuntujenkins> can we get manualbot to do a countdown to final release?
<Red_HamsterX> There's no way it knows anything about that token, so it just generated a random sentence.
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: it says something every minute... that'll get fun :P
<ubuntujenkins> that would be so anoying we would all use googlechat instead
<Red_HamsterX> How does error escalation work in Quickshot?
<ubuntujenkins> I haven't done any error work on quickshot, theres the debug stuff you added
<Red_HamsterX> Fair enough.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll make the description label display an error message is the server is unreachable, then.
<ubuntujenkins> sounds good to me
<humphreybc> it's starting to get light...
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc, how have you got your home isp, where you post links done? Any good tutorials
<ubuntujenkins> jono uses windows 7
<ubuntujenkins> his choice, just a comment
<humphreybc> lolwut
<ubuntujenkins> i was listening to his ustream and someone asked what was he running, he said windows 7 for his studio.
* humphreybc changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | STRING FREEZE in less than 6 hours!!! | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | TODO LIST: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F
<humphreybc> surprised I remember how to do that
<ubuntujenkins> 314 minutes
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, which button advances to the screencapture process?
<humphreybc> Win 7 huh, I thought he used OS X for his studio stuff
<Red_HamsterX> I want to disable it until a screenshot is selected.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: i think screenshotinfo_next_button but the glade file is messed up
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, that looks right.
<Red_HamsterX> I just traced the function backwards.
<humphreybc> If only one good thing comes out of this stuff, it's that I'm becoming very good at working with timezones and converting to/from UTC
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: I can't see whats wrong with the glade file the program looks fine.
<ubuntujenkins> when you run it that is
<Red_HamsterX> I'm just going to edit the XML directly. I don't think it's worth risking Glade failing at this point.
<Red_HamsterX> (I used to craft all GTK windows this way, if not by code directly)
<ubuntujenkins> same, I am not touching glade
<ubuntujenkins> i can't code xml
<ubuntujenkins> but i understand some of it
<Red_HamsterX> It's not hard. Especially if it's properly indented.
<Red_HamsterX> The only thing is it gets annoying, having to type < and > over and over.
<Red_HamsterX> +that
<Red_HamsterX> Do you really want to omit the control box from the nautilus window-bar screencap?
<ubuntujenkins> no you can remove that part let them see it again
<ubuntujenkins> i saw it removed today it looked strange
<ubuntujenkins> qr196 pushed
<ubuntujenkins> are we going to fork it so that we can make major changes in main and fix bugs in both?
<Red_HamsterX> Why are you capturing the whole top-bar when you just want the help icons?
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i was asked to do this morning
<Red_HamsterX> By whom?
<ubuntujenkins> to give it context by godbyk
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, then.
<ubuntujenkins> does the manual server sync with the quickshot branch regulary?
<Red_HamsterX> Every half hour.
<humphreybc> er that was awkward
<ubuntujenkins> sweet
<humphreybc> I got a reply back from the full circle magazine podcast
<Red_HamsterX> Ooh... This is interesting... in a bad way.
<humphreybc> they're keen for an interview buy might have mistaken me for someone else... they've given me an interview outline but it's all about lubuntu. O.o
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<Red_HamsterX> For some reason, the top panel isn't showing up in the help screencap, though it's appearing just fine in the full-screen one.
<ubuntujenkins> may be i set it up wrong?
<Red_HamsterX> No, your values look right.
<Red_HamsterX> Somehow, my code is adding 24 to the top-offset...
<ubuntujenkins> the window buttons one is also wrong
<Red_HamsterX> Oh.
<Red_HamsterX> Because the =fullscreen= property wasn't set.
<ubuntujenkins> thats my fault
<Red_HamsterX> I didn't tell you about it.
<Red_HamsterX> It only appears in a few case.
<Red_HamsterX> cases*
<ubuntujenkins> its fixed now thats fine
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, it looks good now.
<ubuntujenkins> whats left?
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/get_latest.php?language=en&name=02-window-buttons
<Red_HamsterX> I changed the values a bit and got that.
<Red_HamsterX> Does it look like what you wanted?
<ubuntujenkins> idealy like the example down to the bottom of the box that says "icon view" its only suppose to show the window button placements
<ubuntujenkins> *top not bottom
<Red_HamsterX> So stop after the 'File' row?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, that's done.
<Red_HamsterX> REload that page.
<ubuntujenkins> thats good thanks
<ubuntujenkins> must not forget to point quickshot to the right server
<humphreybc> does that shot need to be so wide?
<humphreybc> you could probably halve it
<humphreybc> also, how are we meant to get screenshots of the installation? Boot into Live CD and then run the installation from the desktop shortcut? does that work?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: that was like that because godbyk asked for it please argue with him
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: you shouldn't even have to click the shortcut
<humphreybc> oh does it launch the installation stuff when you choose the screenshot?
<humphreybc> I didn't test the installation stuff out
<ubuntujenkins> when you choose the first instlation screenshot it will
<ubuntujenkins> i need to double check that
<ubuntujenkins> it does in theory
<Red_HamsterX> Lemme commit my fixes.
<humphreybc> man they fixed the gmail docky thing but now it uses 100% CPU
<Red_HamsterX> All bugs patched with qr198.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: in response to your e-mail can women help?
<humphreybc> huh?
<Red_HamsterX> Taken out of context, that would be a very sexist question.
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> what do you mean?
<Red_HamsterX> Ah.
<Red_HamsterX> I see.
<Red_HamsterX> "every single man"
<humphreybc> oh right
<Red_HamsterX> Shame on you, humphreybc. :(
<humphreybc> hardie har har
<Red_HamsterX> Anything left to test/implement with Quickshot that we know about?
<Red_HamsterX> Aside from godbyk's server, I mean.
<humphreybc> i guess you'll get a few bugs when people start using it for real on a variety of hardware
<humphreybc> have you verified the live CD actually works?
<humphreybc> does quickshot skip the user creation step for the quickshot Live CD?
<Red_HamsterX> I have not tested the LiveCD yet.
<Red_HamsterX> We'll need to make sure the production server is working properly before the CD can really be used.
<Red_HamsterX> (If not, all it should be missing is Apache write permissions)
<humphreybc> fair enough, godbyk will be here in about 30 mins I believe
<Red_HamsterX> It looks like it's Querying Bazaar properly, which is good.
<Red_HamsterX> Ooh.
<Red_HamsterX> Actually, that's something we need to test.
<humphreybc> looks like luke is having IRC problems :)
<Red_HamsterX> I'm going to pollute the en screencap branch for a moment.
<ubuntujenkisn1> Red_HamsterX: can we point it at the production server then
<ubuntujenkisn1> ok
<Red_HamsterX> (By uploading some screenshots)
<ubuntujenkisn1> I am having wifi problems
<Red_HamsterX> (I'll remove them once I'm done)
<humphreybc> oh yeah what happens if two people try to upload the same screenshot at the same time?
<humphreybc> and how are multiple screenshots reviewed?
<ubuntujenkisn1> I would like a quickshot review progam for the next release
<humphreybc> we'll just add that to the list :P
<Red_HamsterX> It's got second-level precision. The chances of two people uploading the same screenshot for the same language is virtually nil.
<humphreybc> okay
<Red_HamsterX> There's no real review for multiple screenshots. We're trusting that people will not try to abuse the system, so the most recent one will always be correct.
<Red_HamsterX> In the event of a conflict, one of us will go through the data/ directory and pluck the one we want to use.
<Red_HamsterX> Or boot the CD and capture a proper one.
<humphreybc> righto
<Red_HamsterX> A review system would be nice, though.
<humphreybc> so i suppose it's up to me now to find people to actually use this thing :P
<Red_HamsterX> But there are a lot of logistics involved. 1.0 fodder, that. =P
<Red_HamsterX> Well, I can capture a lot of screencaps...
<Red_HamsterX> I've got a throwaway Cel I can repeatedly install on.
<humphreybc> we have 800 fans on facebook that I plan to utilize
<humphreybc> the trick is to make it enticing and ridiculously easy to use
<Red_HamsterX> While promising fame.
<humphreybc> hahaha
<Red_HamsterX> Can't forget the allure of net-fame.
<humphreybc> well I do need more photos
<humphreybc> I was thinking to increase translations we make it into a competition
<humphreybc> so languages vs other languages
<humphreybc> you could have polish vs german for example
<humphreybc> :)
<ubuntujenkins> am i ok to do some more live cd testing ?
<humphreybc> the only thing is an incentive... what do they get if they win?
<ubuntujenkins> a virtual hug?
<danyR>   somre freee ubuntu shirts?
<ubuntujenkins> a pat on the back from them selves?
<humphreybc> hrm
<humphreybc> ubuntu merchandise..
<humphreybc> i'll talk to jono
<ubuntujenkins> i have some whilst you are there :P
<humphreybc> lol
<Red_HamsterX> Ah. I did make a mistake in the bzr branch checking code. Easy to fix, though.
<humphreybc> okay i'm off to a meeting, back soon
<Red_HamsterX> (Doesn't affect the client in any way)
<ubuntujenkins> I will be back in a bit off to a live cd
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<Red_HamsterX> No, you're not.
<Red_HamsterX> We're going to need to do some testing against your server for Quickshot once I fix one more issue.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Okey doke.
<godbyk> I'm pulling bzr and going through emails and chat backlogs.
<Red_HamsterX> qr199 pushed. Fixes server-side bzr lookup issue.
<Red_HamsterX> Though ubuntujenkins isn't here to see that.
<Red_HamsterX> qr199 pushed. Fixes server-side bzr lookup issue.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: can you look at why the compare window has no icon i am sure i asigned one
<Red_HamsterX> Ooh. LiveCD screenshot. Yay.
<Red_HamsterX> Did it launch properly?
<ubuntujenkins> it did launch perfectly
<Red_HamsterX> Yay.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll look into the icon issue after adding a few steps to the dictionary file.
<Red_HamsterX> (Telling people to close windows before capturing the network stuff)
<ubuntujenkins> thanks, i am so sure i did it
<godbyk> What's with the '2 revisions removed from the branch' email re: ubuntu-manual?
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: there is something not right if i choose partion i get instructions for the keyboard screenshot
<ubuntujenkins> and the keyboard one is wrong
<ubuntujenkins> they are all muddled up
<ubuntujenkins> the 03-autoeth one needs adjusting to the left more
<Red_HamsterX> How far left?
<Red_HamsterX> You'll need to fix the installation instructions.
<Red_HamsterX> I just guessed.
<Red_HamsterX> You definitely set the icon property...
<ubuntujenkins> I haev just uploaded the autoeth one have a look but about 40 plx probably
<ubuntujenkins> I though i had
<ubuntujenkins> I am going back to a normal user now
<Red_HamsterX> Ah, because you have a battery icon.
<Red_HamsterX> I should account for the Bluetooth icon, too.
<ubuntujenkins> ok for the screenshots that i had left it appeared to be ok, when you have  finished editing the dictonary i will sort out the installation stuff
<Red_HamsterX> Feel free to do it now.
<ubuntujenkins> ok
<Red_HamsterX> (We wouldn't have been editing the same sections anyway, so there would have been no conflict)
<Red_HamsterX> Pushing
<Red_HamsterX> Icon issue fixed.
<Red_HamsterX> Seems the icon_name property is incompatible with the icon property.
<Red_HamsterX> I used title instead.
<ubuntujenkins> wow we are on qr202
<godbyk> Do you guys need me to do anything on the server side?
<ubuntujenkins> pushed qr203
<Red_HamsterX> Can you make sure Apache has write-access to the data/ directory, godbyk?
<Red_HamsterX> That's the only thing we should need you to take care of.
<Red_HamsterX> (Yes, I'm well aware of the stupidity of making a directory inside of a projectroot writable)
<Red_HamsterX> project root*
<ubuntujenkins> so whats left?
<godbyk> It should inherit the permissions from the bzr repository. But I'll double-check.
<Red_HamsterX> Just testing godbyk's server and some of the RTL languages, I think.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm gonna try Arabic now.
<Red_HamsterX> To make sure things aren't horribly super-way-off.
<ubuntujenkins> sweet i will try some now as well
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: I've given data 775 permissions. I'm not sure if that's enough or not. If you run into problems, holler at me.
<Red_HamsterX> Actually, I onl;y have English on my test system... What's the package names for languages?
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, 775 is perfect, thanks. :)
<ubuntujenkins> language-pack-gnome-*
<ubuntujenkins> where * is a code
<Red_HamsterX> 'Kay.
<Red_HamsterX> Installing -ar and -ja
<Red_HamsterX> Hmm... ar has a lot of locales...
<Red_HamsterX> And we seem to have a problem...
<Red_HamsterX> I'm using Japanese, but Quickshot thinks I'm using English.
<ubuntujenkins> I thought titeuf had sorted that
<Red_HamsterX> I thought so, too.
<Red_HamsterX> Gah. I'll need to add a few exceptions to his code.
<Red_HamsterX> He's dropping all dialects.
<ubuntujenkins> which file are you looking at?
<Red_HamsterX> bin/quickshot
<Red_HamsterX> I've added exceptions.
<Red_HamsterX> Line 326.
<Red_HamsterX> Push complete.
<Red_HamsterX> Unfortunately, they're hardcoded exceptions (we'll need to create some sort of config file for clients that can be downloaded from the server to filter languages for 1.0)
<jorgetb> hello, are you working on the writting freeze?
<Red_HamsterX> Most of us are, yes.
<ubuntujenkins> ok Red_HamsterX we need an etherpad list
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins and I are working on a related project, though, so don't pay much attention to our conversation.
<jorgetb> I have found a phrase that I guess it is not correct
<jorgetb> in page 102
<jorgetb> the last sentence
<jorgetb> it seems that is not finished
<Red_HamsterX> humphreybc, are you around to field this one?
<Red_HamsterX> ...Wha? Based on titeuf's code, this stuff should be working...
<ubuntujenkins> o i am testing the locals on a live cd it appears that on my physical machine they are messed up
<ubuntujenkins> i have no copy of quickshot on the live cd yet
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk can you help jorgetb ?
<jorgetb> I just send a bug report
<godbyk> sure. lemme look.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<jorgetb> thanks
<godbyk> jorgetb: on the copyright page toward the front of the manual, which revision are you looking at?
<jorgetb> 674
<godbyk> thanks.
<godbyk> let me recompile my copy of the manual and I'll take a look.
<jorgetb> it seems that should finish with the word button, but in my revision the sentence finish with the word close
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, I wonder if Python is somehow setting a different locale value since we don't have translation stuff enabled...
<ubuntujenkins> thats a possiblity
<Red_HamsterX> Committed a better detection routine, but it's still broken.
<godbyk> jorgetb: It looks like the current revision has edited that paragraph to say:
<ubuntujenkins> this affects the whole project uploads and evr
<godbyk> "If you want to synchronize the notes again click \menu{Tools} and click \menu{Synchronize Notes}.
<godbyk> Your notes will start synchronizing, when they are done, click the \button{close}
<godbyk> button."
<godbyk> Does that look better?
<ubuntujenkins> *every thing
<godbyk> (Ignoring the \commands.)
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, yes. This qualifies as critical.
<Red_HamsterX> ...Okay...
<ubuntujenkins> aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggg
<Red_HamsterX> It actually works fine if I run it using quickly.
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe the problem is with the run-from-login stuff.
 * Red_HamsterX is glad most of the interface is in kana, or he'd be rather lost.
 * godbyk would still be lost
<Red_HamsterX> Although I do have another syste right next to it to use as a reference.
<Red_HamsterX> system*
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, logging in = English, but running from a terminal = Japanese...
<ubuntujenkins> well what about not auto opening?
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: not sure if it helps at all, but the for the language codes, in my script, I first try to match the full language code and if that fails, chop off the _locale bit and try to match again. If that fails, then I fall back on English.
<ubuntujenkins> the local must be set after we do quickly run in the .profile file
<ubuntujenkins> if you want a package i can send you one Red_HamsterX
<Red_HamsterX> That's what we're doing here, too, godbyk.
<Red_HamsterX> Unfortunately, while a good idea, it's not the problem we're seeing.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: ah, ignore me then. :)
<Red_HamsterX> The propblem seems to be that $LANG is set to en while Quickshot is being launched by the .profile stuff.
<Red_HamsterX> Will everyone using Quickshot conceivably be either us or using the package, ubuntujenkins?
<Red_HamsterX> If so, then sure, let's try that.
<Red_HamsterX> Or I could just add the PPA if that's sufficiently up-to-date.
<ubuntujenkins> the ppa is out of date whats your e-mail?
<Red_HamsterX> qr205 accounts for pt_BR and the three Chinese variants.
<Red_HamsterX> red.hamsterx@gmail.com works.
<Red_HamsterX> Or neil.tallim@, if you prefer.
<ubuntujenkins> just building it
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: sent to red.hamsterx e-mail
<ubuntujenkins> I can't believe how messed up my computer is
<ubuntujenkins> I can't do a clean install for at least 3 weeks
<ubuntujenkins> this might explain my messed up pc  GNOME 2.30 being uploaded. Packages are in-flux, so don't upgrade yet.  form #ubuntu+1
<ubuntujenkins> the cd is ok though
<ubuntujenkins> THREE HOURS PEOPLE
<ubuntujenkins> DON'T PANICK
 * Red_HamsterX logs out and installs.
<godbyk> I'm spell-checking the entire manual.
<Red_HamsterX> Lemme know if you notice any chapters you'd like me to try to go over in the remaining time, godbyk. I think the language thing will resolve itself with the package.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: I'm not sure what chapters need proofreading the most a this point, but you might just skim through the PDF and spot-check some things.
<ubuntujenkins> right i am swapping to the wifi brb
<ubuntujenkins> lets see how long i can stay connected
<Red_HamsterX> So the installed-from-package version still sets up the Quickshot user to launch Quickshot on login...
<ubuntujenkins> that can be removed i will look up the line numbers
<Red_HamsterX> But running it from the menu works fine under ja.
 * Red_HamsterX captures Japanese-y IPv4 config.
<ubuntujenkins> I will remove the auto login lines
<Red_HamsterX> Two screenshots uploaded.
 * Red_HamsterX goes with UAE Arabic.
<Red_HamsterX> GAH! RIGHT-TO-LEFT!
<Red_HamsterX> CONFUSING AND SCARY!
<Red_HamsterX> Whoa... Okay, this could be bad...
<Red_HamsterX> The *entire* interface is mirrored.
<Red_HamsterX> The Gnome menu's in the top right.
<Red_HamsterX> Network manager and stuff are in the top left.
<Red_HamsterX> I can only assume the sheer terror caused his connection to give out.
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, do you have a list of all RTL languages we're working with?
<Red_HamsterX> I might be able to make Quickshot just flip its co-ordinates to deal with this easily...
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: I don't.  I haven't worked on the RTL format yet.
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe Gnome has a flag...
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins~ Panic time~
<ubuntujenkins> right back on a wired connection looks like i will be sleeping on the floor to night
<ubuntujenkins> why?
<Red_HamsterX> RTL languages mean RTL interface.
<Red_HamsterX> We need to find a way to determine whether a given language is RTL in Gnome so I can flip screne co-ordinates for sub-rects to work properly.
<ubuntujenkins> dam i see you point
<ubuntujenkins> if we have a list of languages that are rtl can't we just test against that?
<ubuntujenkins> add a varible trl=true there for flip it all?
<Red_HamsterX> Not reliably, unless we want to try booting all 52 of them to be sure.
<Red_HamsterX> Gnome has to provide some sort of hint...
<godbyk> Can you query ICU or some language/locale database about that RTL property?
<ubuntujenkins> surely there is a list on wikipedia
<Red_HamsterX> I'm sure there is. But we need to know which ones Gnome flips.
<godbyk> There's got to be some bidi flag you can check or something.
<Red_HamsterX> "bidi"?
<Red_HamsterX> Any points are welcome.
<Red_HamsterX> pointers*
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: something like this? http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/class-gtkwidget.html#method-gtkwidget--set-direction
<godbyk> (still digging for ya.)
<ubuntujenkins> there must be something in the python-pybabel package
<Red_HamsterX> This is WM-layer, ubuntujenkins.
<Red_HamsterX> That might be enough to go on, godbyk.
<Red_HamsterX> Thanks.
<godbyk> this doesn't sound good: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/446989/comments/6  not sure if it's at all relevant though.
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 446989 in ubiquity "ubiquity slideshow doesn't support RTL" [Medium,Fix released]
<Red_HamsterX> That won't affect Quickshot, fortunately.
<Daker> godbyk, http://www.downloadsquad.com/2010/03/31/using-foxit-because-you-think-its-safer-than-adobe-reader-thin/
<humphreybc> i'm back
<humphreybc> long meeting
<humphreybc> my back is really quite sore from sitting in my computer chair for too long
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: true, but I'm hoping that the 'there's no easy way to detect RTL' doesn't apply globally.
<godbyk> Daker: nice! I'll update our manual accordingly. <evil grin>
<Daker> ;)
<Red_HamsterX> Good point...
<Red_HamsterX> Well, if it *is* crippling, we have one workaround...
<ubuntujenkins> crop manauly?
<Red_HamsterX> Reconfigure my server to serve RTL co-ords and capture the problematic screenshots internally.
<Red_HamsterX> We could do that before it becomes an issue.
<Red_HamsterX> Like, start burning through them tomorrow.
<Red_HamsterX> So the RTL users never get a chance to see them.
<humphreybc> what's the problem?
<Red_HamsterX> Launch Ubuntu in Arabic.
<humphreybc> I'd rather not, does it look crazy?
<Red_HamsterX> Mirror image.
<humphreybc> lovely
<Red_HamsterX> Not so good for automatic cropping.
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> this is a problem :P
<Red_HamsterX> It's not insurmountable, but we need to know which languages are affected or determine when we're in an RTL context so we can flip some numbers.
<Red_HamsterX> Fortunately, Quickshot is affected by the issue on a few fields (which looks hideous), so with the API reference godbyk found, we might be able to exploit that to implement a fast workaround.
<Red_HamsterX> (Yes, I'm proposing leaving what would be considered a display bug in place so we can avoid a larger problem)
<Red_HamsterX> <arabic>                                          Language:
<Red_HamsterX> That's what it looks like on tabular fields.
<Red_HamsterX> Anything packed into an hbox, actually.
<Red_HamsterX> Implementing RTL-detection stuff now...
<Daker> godbyk, http://blog.didierstevens.com/2010/03/29/escape-from-pdf/
<godbyk> http://userguide.icu-project.org/transforms/bidi
<godbyk> brb
<ubuntujenkins> I think 4 screenshots are effected if i make the daily ppa point at your server neil we can use that
<Red_HamsterX> I've got a fix, I think.
<Red_HamsterX> I just need to finish writing and testing it.
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<ubuntujenkins> just making small commit
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot qr207 pushed
<Red_HamsterX> Can you make sure I'm not being stupid with a quick math check?
<Red_HamsterX> n *= -1
<Red_HamsterX> n += 1
<Red_HamsterX> If 'n' is the left value, that'll be guaranteed to flip it to the other side, right?
<Red_HamsterX> Where -1 is the right-most edge and 0 is left-most.
<Red_HamsterX> So if left is 10, then -11 is its opposite.
<Red_HamsterX> n -= 1*
<Red_HamsterX> Not +=.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, looks right to me.
<ubuntujenkins> I think it makes sense it is late here
<Red_HamsterX> The hack is to see if the screenshot list is being rendered RTL, then translate the co-ordinates with that math if it is.
<Red_HamsterX> (For sub-rects only)
<Red_HamsterX> YAY!
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<godbyk> Had to get dinner started.
 * Red_HamsterX does a dance of happy.
<Red_HamsterX> Thank you, godbyk!
<ubuntujenkins> Go Red_HamsterX
<ubuntujenkins> and godbyk
<godbyk> for what?
<Red_HamsterX> That function's counterpart works.
<Red_HamsterX> The one you found in PyGTK's APIs.
<godbyk> oh, the get_direction or get_text_direction method?
<godbyk> nice.
<Red_HamsterX> Patch applied...
<Red_HamsterX> Code pulled...
<Red_HamsterX> Committing.
<Red_HamsterX> Pushed.
<godbyk> humphreybc: What's missing from the conventions section in the prologue?
<Red_HamsterX> qr208 fixes RTL.
<ubuntujenkins> thank goodness are we ready to release?
<Red_HamsterX> I want to test it with Hebrew first.
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<Red_HamsterX> (And then French, ot make sure I didn't break things)
<Red_HamsterX> And then we need to test against godbyk's server, unless you changed the code for that already.
<Red_HamsterX> In which case, I'll be testing against it with Hebrew and French.
<Red_HamsterX> ...What's the code for Hrbrew?
<Red_HamsterX> he
<ubuntujenkins> he
<ubuntujenkins> i forgot the testing with godbyk
<Red_HamsterX> Weird... su presents an Arabic prompt, but sudo presents an English one.
<Red_HamsterX> Hebrew has funky terminal highlighting.
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/screencaps/get_latest.php?language=he&name=03-firefox-preferences So... weird...
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, well. Time for French.
 * Red_HamsterX likes languages he can speak.
<ubuntujenkins> wow that is weird i can't speak that
<Red_HamsterX> Afte the other languages, French feels comfortable.
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, so what's the flag to use godbyk's server?
<Red_HamsterX> So I can get that out of the way.
<ubuntujenkins> -s
<ubuntujenkins> i think
<Red_HamsterX> It's queryable.
<Red_HamsterX> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/get_latest.php?language=fr&name=03-empathy-new-account Whoo!
<Red_HamsterX> I just need to make one reference screencap change and we're ready to go.
<ubuntujenkins> woo
<humphreybc> so, 1 hour 20 mins
<semioticrobotic> *sweating*
<humphreybc> haha
<ubuntujenkins>  hour, 17 minutes and 22 seconds until Thursday, 1 April 201
<humphreybc> oh yeah semioticrobotic I need a photo of you
<ubuntujenkins> *1
<semioticrobotic> I sent one to you!
<humphreybc> thanks for that highly accurate countdown
<humphreybc> you did?
<semioticrobotic> yep
<semioticrobotic> email
<ubuntujenkins> we need it :P
<semioticrobotic> I can send it again, though
<semioticrobotic> no big deal
<humphreybc> what was the file name?
<semioticrobotic> ummm....not sure
<semioticrobotic> something generic
 * humphreybc has lost track of who's sent them or not
<humphreybc> what do you look like?
<Red_HamsterX> Say "serial killer"
<semioticrobotic> just sent it again
<humphreybc> ah!
<humphreybc> i have got that one
<semioticrobotic> (figured that was easiet)
<humphreybc> that's good then
<humphreybc> sure
<semioticrobotic> er, easiest
<semioticrobotic> Look like?  White dude, 27, black glasses, posing with the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man from Ghostbusters
<Red_HamsterX> Uh oh. godbyk, your PHP build doesn't support the ZipArchive extensions.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Hrm.. I have a custom build I've used for some other sites. I'll see if it does. (And if it does, I'll set it up to use the custom build.)
<godbyk> one moment.
<Red_HamsterX> If it doesn't, we can work around that,
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: http://greenspace.godby.org/phpinfo.php  Does this support what you need?
<Red_HamsterX> I can just give you a script that does the same thing and we can grab the zipfiles from data/ ourselves.
<semioticrobotic> what happens to all us editor-types after writing freeze?
<godbyk> I can recompile a custom php sometime, but it probably won't be in the next hour. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Lemme check mine for comparison.
<godbyk> semioticrobotic: we collapse due to exhaustion?
 * semioticrobotic laughs
<semioticrobotic> I can handle that
<godbyk> We're going to branch so we can continue editing and writing for the next edition.
<Red_HamsterX> zip
<Red_HamsterX> Zip => enabled
<Red_HamsterX> Extension Version => $Id: php_zip.c,v 1.1.2.50 2009/03/01 17:35:25 iliaa Exp $
<Red_HamsterX> Zip version => 1.8.11
<Red_HamsterX> Libzip version => 0.9.0
<Red_HamsterX> I don't see it in yours.
<Red_HamsterX> I need that.
<semioticrobotic> godbyk: nice!  good idea
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: figures.
<humphreybc> okay what can I do to help fellas?
<Red_HamsterX> Again, I can just write a script that does the same thing.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: can we work around it for now and wait 'til I get a free moment to recompile php?
<ubuntujenkins> we don't need that for a few days right ?
<godbyk> Do we need the zip stuff immediately or is that just for after screenshots have been taken?
<Red_HamsterX> Not until we're ready to start compiling the manual, ubuntujenkins.
<Red_HamsterX> It's just part of the export process.
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i thought
<godbyk> okay. so no need to panic on that one, then.
<humphreybc> btw everyone, we were mentioned on the UK podcast again this week
<Red_HamsterX> I can write a PHP file that'll use tar or something to the same effect.
<godbyk> I'll recompile php at some point and have you tell me which options you want.
<Red_HamsterX> As long as I only commit changes against the server-side stuff, nothing'll break.
<godbyk> humphreybc: in a good way? :)
<humphreybc> just listening to it now
<Red_HamsterX> Zip is the only non-standard option I require.
<godbyk> humphreybc: link? I'll listen along.
<humphreybc> I think it's a good way yes
<ubuntujenkins> listening now as well
<humphreybc> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/download/uupc_s03e04_high.mp3
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: are we going to branch? and commit fixes in both branches?
<semioticrobotic> humphreybc: Great!  We got a nod on FullCircle, too, which was the reason I've been in touch with those folks -- just wrote them to say thanks
<humphreybc> semioticrobotic: we did? I got an email from someone from there
<humphreybc> but they seemed to think we were Lubuntu
<semioticrobotic> Lubuntu?
<semioticrobotic> hmmmm ... that's odd
<humphreybc> yeah, derivitave of ubuntu using LXDE
<humphreybc> i replied, haven't got back to me yet
<humphreybc> we'll see
<semioticrobotic> I don't know why they would have confused us with that project
<semioticrobotic> well, thanks for following up
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, I kinda think we should take the month for planning, rather than development. To do this right, we're going to need to refactor everything, take stock of all that we've learned, and build it in a consistent, uniform fashion again. (reusing as much code as possible, of course)
<semioticrobotic> we'll get them straightened out :)
<Red_HamsterX> We can probably hold off on branching until we know what we want to do.
<ubuntujenkins> kk wounds like a plan
<ubuntujenkins> *sounds
<Red_HamsterX> Plus, that'll give us only one place in which to fix bugs.
<Red_HamsterX> Plans are painful, yes.
<ubuntujenkins> true it is easier
<godbyk> dinner's ready. brb.
<semioticrobotic> dinner time for me, as well
<Red_HamsterX> Same here.
<semioticrobotic> just wanted to pop in and celebrate writing freeze with everyone
<Red_HamsterX> One hour 'til beta and everyone's gone. :)
<semioticrobotic> :)
<ubuntujenkins> anna nelson to talk to
<ubuntujenkins> according to ubuntu uk podcast
<semioticrobotic> good luck everyone!
<humphreybc> UMP stuff is on at 1:01:50 or so
<semioticrobotic> (humphreybc : let me know via email if you still have trouble receiving my picture)
<humphreybc> semioticrobotic: don't worry i've got it now
<semioticrobotic> humphreybc: great!  talk to you later.
<humphreybc> how's the manual going? are we ready for writing freeze?
<godbyk> humphreybc: back.
<godbyk> listening to podcast while I eat dinner.
<humphreybc> righto. the bit about our thing is quite short
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-01
<ubuntujenkins> it is short but its good to get a mention
<humphreybc> we didn't have a link to give alan on information on how to use quickshot simply because we hadn't got it ready
<ubuntu_> OMG! Writing Freeze!?
<humphreybc> but once it's ready and the links are in place etc, i'll email him the link to wiki/website/omgubungu or whatever so he can update the link
<humphreybc> ubuntu_ damn right
<ubuntu_> can't change my nick :S
<godbyk> humphreybc: I'm pushing a fix for the small-caps (bold, italic, etc.) issue. can you skim through the manual and see if it fixes 'em all?
<ubuntu_> OMG! my time to start translating
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> godbyk have you done the conventions?
<humphreybc> an hour to go now
<ubuntujenkins> "/msg nickserv <nickname>" i think ubuntu_
<godbyk> humphreybc: look for yourself.
<humphreybc> (this milestone is almost more important than final release!)
<ubuntu_> i know, but it isn't working :S
<godbyk> let me know if there are more conventions that need mentioning.
<humphreybc> okay okay it's compiling now
<humphreybc> (takes ages now)
<godbyk> grilled hamburgers.  yum!
<ubuntujenkins> can i have one?
<ubuntu_> btw, I can confim that evince image rendering bug is solved
<godbyk> nope! all mine!
<godbyk> ubuntu_: awesome!
<godbyk> ubuntu_: did they push an evince update or did you compile manually?
<ubuntujenkins> It is 0 days, 0 hours, 54 minutes and 52 seconds until Thursday, 1 April 2010 (UTC time)
<humphreybc> THANKYOU LUKE
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> ubuntu_ has it landed in Lucid already??
<ubuntujenkins> let me know if you want an update :P
<humphreybc> when are we taking out the TODOs?
<ubuntu_> humphreybc: yeah
<godbyk> humphreybc: you don't have to take them out.
<ubuntu_> lol, actually where I'm it's already 00:11 :P Portugal ftw!
<godbyk> I change one line of code and they all go away.
<humphreybc> ok
 * ubuntujenkins is getting tired
<ubuntu_> humphreybc: you're still awake? I've been following your tweets
<humphreybc> yep, i'm still awake
<humphreybc> must be a good 30 hours now without sleep
<humphreybc> i don't feel that bad... kinda sore back though from sitting at a computer
<ubuntu_> humphreybc: think. just one more. awesome work. will be honored to translate :-)
<ubuntu_> and take ss
<humphreybc> :)
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: which screenshot needs changing can i do it?
 * humphreybc enjoys moving things around in latex while it compiles and watching the PDF update live
<godbyk> figure 3.6 has part of the text smeared out.  that's no good. we need to replace it with fake text if it's a security issue or something.
<humphreybc> oh yeah, btw, not promising anything but we may have a little feature/link to our website on ubuntu.com
<godbyk> the screenshots shouldn't be censored that way because it's confusing (and looks bad).
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: it was smeared by hand because it was a uni network we are redoing the english screenshots there are so many ui changes
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I understand. Just saying that we shouldn't do that for future screenshots. :)
<ubuntujenkins> thats fine i can redo that one now that i am at home, i can remane the network
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, feel free to fix anything you can. I'm not aware of any issues with the references (aside from the fact that we made the nm-applet stuff bigger)
<Red_HamsterX> And the censored one.
<Red_HamsterX> Just use your real network name. =P
<Red_HamsterX> Nobody will know it's yours.
<Red_HamsterX> Or give it something generic, but real-looking, like "John Smith's House".
<Red_HamsterX> Because we won't be able to ensure that all volunteers will be able to rename their networks.
<Red_HamsterX> Lemme know what I can do.
<ubuntujenkins> have we changed it to godbyks server in the code?
<Red_HamsterX> No, I thought you were going to do that.
<ubuntujenkins> is it in line 363 right
<ubuntujenkins> and its changing to http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/
<humphreybc> so an ETA for when we'll have a working Live CD image and a release PPA?
<Red_HamsterX> That's the right URL.
<ubuntujenkins> what version number?
<Red_HamsterX> I don't know where my address is located, though.
 * Red_HamsterX greps.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: 1-1.5 hours
<ubuntujenkins> it takes time to get the cd to godbyk
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, 636 is the only place where it's defined.
<ubuntujenkins> i typed that backwards :P
<Red_HamsterX> I figured it was what you meant.
 * Red_HamsterX marks some of the bugfixes as published.
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/ubuntu-manual-team-to-provide-manual-on.html
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: if you every set up another project don't put two emails for maintaier it causes no end of problems
<humphreybc> lol
<ubuntujenkins> what an audio tape whos reading it?
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> read the press release, damnit
<Red_HamsterX> https://bugs.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/552544 I can't mark this as closed since, while I observe that the line has been fixed, I haven't tested it. Your bug, ubuntujenkins.
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 552544 in quickshot "Error on creating new user with Ubuntu Live CD" [Medium,Fix committed]
<humphreybc> http://ubuntu-manual.org/?audiobook
<ubuntujenkins> whos  Marlee Matlin.?
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: marked as fixed
<Red_HamsterX> Then we have closed all open bugs. Yay
<Red_HamsterX> That article looks quasi-believable.
<humphreybc> ;)
<Red_HamsterX> ...That *is* a joke, right?
<humphreybc> if you find out who Marlee Matlin is, you'll figure it out
<Red_HamsterX> I know the name and enough to question you.
<Red_HamsterX> But I also know you're crazy.
<Red_HamsterX> And you may have access to vast sums of riches.
<ubuntujenkins> right quickshot will be in the ppa in about 10-15 mins
<godbyk> TIME'S UP, EVERYONE.  PENCILS DOWN!
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> man flash is screwed on my lucid install
 * Red_HamsterX continues writing, frantically.
 * godbyk slaps Red_HamsterX on the wrist with a ruler.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: in ten minutes once the cd is built and checked how do i get it to you?
<Red_HamsterX> Upload it using Quickshot!
<Red_HamsterX> ...Yeah, no.
<Red_HamsterX> FTP/SFTP?
 * humphreybc really needs to fix this flash shit
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: good question.
<Red_HamsterX> Torrent?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: said ftp before
<godbyk> Let me see if I can set up an ftp login for you or something.
<Red_HamsterX> I could run a tracker.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> do i need any thing extra installed? whilst i am waiting for it to build?
<Red_HamsterX> For FTP? No.
<ubuntujenkins> just double checking
<Red_HamsterX> You can use Gnome's Connect to Server feature or the 'ftp' utility.
<Red_HamsterX> (Places -> Connect to Server)
<ubuntujenkins> right the packages in the ppa have built, just need to be published
<ubuntujenkins> cool never done ftp before
<Red_HamsterX> I'll boot the test box to make sure it works as expected.
<Red_HamsterX> You can use Connect to Server for SFTP, too.
<Red_HamsterX> And some other things.
<Red_HamsterX> It's well-integrated.
<ubuntujenkins> I will be burning to my memory stick to check it
<Red_HamsterX> You'll see it appear in all Nautilus (and anything else that supports Gnime VFS) windows.
<Red_HamsterX> I meant the PPA. =P
<Red_HamsterX> Gnome*
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'm setting up an ftp for you.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk
<ubuntujenkins> ok the cd is made but... my laptop has locked up it should unfrezze soon
<godbyk> yikes!
<ubuntujenkins> strange how i can always use xchat
<ubuntujenkins> 696 mb spot on team
<godbyk> awesome
<Red_HamsterX> Nice!
<ubuntujenkins> i ripped out ubuntu one at the last minute
<Red_HamsterX> Hmm... The Quickshot download link in the wiki is dead.
<Red_HamsterX> Where should it point?
<ubuntujenkins> thats because there is no cd
<ubuntujenkins> ask godbyk
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, it's for the CD.
<ubuntujenkins> ppa stuff below
<Red_HamsterX> The button text mad eme think it was for the .deb for some reason.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> so what happens now that we've reached writing freeze?
<ubuntujenkins> start on the next one
<Red_HamsterX> I think that's your call, leader-man. =P
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> when will quickshot be ready?
<Red_HamsterX> Once it's uploaded, if final testing goes well.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm testing the PPA build now.
<humphreybc> godbyk, have you added http://ubuntu-manual.org/ubuntu-manual-beta.pdf
<humphreybc> ?
<ubuntujenkins> the ppa should be up, my laptop if frozen, i am hoping it will unfreeze soon
<godbyk> I'm literally committing it as we speak.
<godbyk> though I haven't symlinked -beta.
<godbyk> I'll do that.
<humphreybc> ok
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: i see your private message but can't answer, thank you
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: no worries. let me know if you have problems with the ftp site.
<ubuntujenkins> i will
<godbyk> how many people do we think will download the ISO?
<humphreybc> um
<godbyk> is this going to kill my site? :-)
<humphreybc> probably not
<humphreybc> maybe 100 people
<humphreybc> well
<humphreybc> we'll see
<godbyk> or more specifically, should we find a way to mirror it?
<Red_HamsterX> Torrent?
<Red_HamsterX> Ubuntu ships with tRansmission, so people won't need a special client.
<Red_HamsterX> Transmission*
<godbyk> humphreybc: shouldn't the progress bar get updated?
<humphreybc> blah
<humphreybc> yeah
<Red_HamsterX> PPA confirmed working in Japanese.
<humphreybc> i'll do that now
<humphreybc> what % do you reckon we're at now?
<ubuntujenkins> crap my laptop has over heated i am trying to boot it on s live cd
<ubuntujenkins> excuse my french
<ubuntujenkins> I paln to copy it to my hoome desktop
<ubuntujenkins> whish is old
<godbyk> 80% maybe?
<godbyk> I mean if it's really pencils-down, then we're done writing.
<godbyk> It's just up to me to fiddle with some formatting and make it all look as awesome as possible.
<godbyk> And for the translators to do their thing.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> i've made it 80%
<Red_HamsterX> PPA confirmed working in Arabic, too.
<ubuntujenkins> well thats one thing
<godbyk> humphreybc: Also, I need some more details as to what 'writing freeze' means.
<godbyk> If we're going to publish *exactly* what we have (sans formatting changes), then it's probably best if we branch this so I can fiddle with the formatting in its own branch.
<godbyk> Have another branch for the translators to work against.
<godbyk> And yet another for people to continue editing and writing material.
<humphreybc> well basically we just don't want to cock up the strings for the translators
<godbyk> Okay.  So we definitely need a branch for the translators to work against.
<godbyk> But everything else can carry on as normal, then right?
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: good
<humphreybc> i suppose so
<ubuntujenkins> I have started to burn the test cd
<Red_HamsterX> Arabic Ubuntu is scary -> Ø£ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© Ø£ÙØ± ÙØ®Ù -> Ubuntu is the Arab brain | Thanks, Google!
<ubuntujenkins> ok i will be back
<ubuntu-jenkins> well the cd burn failed, then i burnt the wrong image to a pen drive. it works in a vitualmachine but still testing physical
<humphreybc> lol!
<ubuntu-jenkins> godbyk: can i have the server details again please
<humphreybc> keep it up luke!
<humphreybc> now we have to figure out the branches
<ubuntu-jenkins> ok i am happy ftp copy started
<humphreybc> and it's stable?
<godbyk> yeah, we should figure out the branch thing so we can keep working.
<ubuntu-jenkins> as stable as it can be, i am the only tester we haven't taken out anything major just redundant programs
<ubuntu-jenkins> and randow docs
<humphreybc> it looks like we could rename "main" to "lucid-ed1" or something
<humphreybc> and then branch off the beta release milestone to another series called "lucid-ed2"
<humphreybc> maybe
<humphreybc> but i'm not sure
<epkugelmass> move the focus of translation development on to series 'lucid-ed1'
<ubuntu-jenkins> this is the slowest ever connection 47kb/s
<epkugelmass> and keep the rest of us working on the trunk?
<humphreybc> epkugelmass: yeah
<humphreybc> something like that
<epkugelmass> trunk=main
<humphreybc> I might grab someone to help us do that
<humphreybc> someone who knows about launchpad and bzr :)
<godbyk> I also updated http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/.
<ubuntu-jenkins> ok its an eta of about 4hours iam off to bed
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> righto then
<godbyk> Where it appears I've managed to break them all. :-)
<humphreybc> godbyk, english AU and GB have a lot of errors :P
<ubuntu-jenkins> can some one update the wiki once the cd is up please
<humphreybc> ubuntu-jenkins: i'll do that
<humphreybc> don't worry
<ubuntu-jenkins> thanks i hope this doesn't fail
<humphreybc> me too, me too
<humphreybc> have we got a stable PPA?
<ubuntu-jenkins> yes the ppa is up
<humphreybc> so at least people on Lucid can use it if the Live CD doesn't work?
<humphreybc> neat
<godbyk> ubuntu-jenkins: how's the upload going?
<humphreybc> I think he's gone to bed
<Red_HamsterX> I kinda hope so.
<Red_HamsterX> He needs sleep. :(
<humphreybc> i do too... 32 hours without it :)
<godbyk> ah, 'kay.
<humphreybc> not tired... just sore.. aches and shakes
<godbyk> 92 MB of the ISO image uploaded.
<humphreybc> lol
<epkugelmass> website is starting to take shape
<humphreybc> almost 1/7th of the way!
<humphreybc> epkugelmass: indeed it is
<epkugelmass> i must have missed this
<epkugelmass> what's the iso for?
<humphreybc> Quickshot Live CD
<epkugelmass> ah
<epkugelmass> so that the translators can take images for their languages?
<humphreybc> yep
<humphreybc> well
<humphreybc> so we can get translated screenshots
<humphreybc> even if you don't speak arabic, you can still take arabic screenshots and contribute them
<humphreybc> that's the idea
<godbyk> ISO 274 MB so far.
<humphreybc> that's good
<godbyk> 489 MB now.
<godbyk> Is he on dial-up or something? :-)
<humphreybc> no idea
<humphreybc> i'm going to bed
<humphreybc> 36 hours awake now need sleep
<godbyk> humphreybc: lame. :)
<humphreybc> i'll be up in about 4 hours, just gonna have a nap
<godbyk> good luck with that!
<humphreybc> lol
<ubuntu-jenkins> dobyk i am on broadband but slo q sturff it looks like is done here
<ubuntu-jenkins> godbyk: ^^
<ubuntu-jenkins> *slow
<godbyk> ubuntu-jenkins: I just noticed.  I'm copying it to the site now. Is there a page or link I need to set up?
<ubuntu-jenkins> the one on dakers ebsite and the on eon the wiki thanks
<ubuntu-jenkins> i dn't like this keyboard
<godbyk> internet is dropping here again. :-(
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins__: what page on the website is the link on?
<ubuntujenkins__> godbyk: http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins__: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot/ubuntu-manual-quickshot-i386-0.0.8.iso
<godbyk> that's the link if you want to download and check that it survived the transit. :)
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk i can't understand how slow the upload was so slow i predicted about 40 minutes
<ubuntujenkins> so now we wait for the bug reports
<godbyk> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot
<godbyk> should work now
<ubuntujenkins> it works!
<godbyk> I'll download a copy and give it a shot.
<godbyk> if my internet actually works. :-(
<ubuntujenkins> i wonder how  many downloads it will get?
<godbyk> Not sure. I need to write a php script to keep tally. :)
<shrini> team: where can i get the latest pdf?
<shrini> Po and pdf are not matching
<godbyk> shrini: http://ubuntu-manual.org/ubuntu-manual-beta.pdf is the latest.
<shrini> godbyk: thanks
<shrini> ubuntu-manual.org site is not update with this link
<godbyk> lemme look.
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> shrini: the download worked okay for me.
<shrini> it has this link
<shrini> http://ubuntu-manual.org/ubuntu-manual-draft.pdf
<shrini> not the beta
<godbyk> oh.. the link on the page. gotcha.
<godbyk> -draft is the same as -beta anyway.
<godbyk> but I'll fix the link.
<shrini> thanks
<shrini> announce about the write freeze
<shrini> in the home page
<godbyk> I think I've updated all the links now.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson's here. Yay!  Aren't you up a bit late?
<IlyaHaykinson> yeah, a bit.
<IlyaHaykinson> it's midnight
<IlyaHaykinson> i'm just writing a "what's next" email
<godbyk> Perfect! I was just going to pester you about that.
<godbyk> We need to branch stuff.
<godbyk> And I also want to enlist your help in putting together a style guide, too. :)
<IlyaHaykinson> going to propose three tracks: 1) getting first edition to ship; 2) second edition for 10.04, theme "raise the quality bar"; 3) first edition for 10.10, theme "improve breadth of coverage"
<godbyk> sounds about right.
<godbyk> 1 is what translators will be building against.
<godbyk> 2 is what we'll continue to edit and perfect.
<IlyaHaykinson> re the style guide: i think this will need to wait until late april for me. i am super-busy at work.
<godbyk> and 3 is what authors can come back in on and fill out bits that were cut last time, and changes for 10.10.
<godbyk> fair enough.
<IlyaHaykinson> exactly. i think 2 will need to come more or less before 3.
<IlyaHaykinson> they can overlap in that we can start planning for 3 before 2 is done
<godbyk> agreed.
<IlyaHaykinson> but i want to really switch the focus from "get it out" to the second edition's "make it good"
<IlyaHaykinson> so that we're left with a good platform for 10.10
<godbyk> I really do, too.
<godbyk> That's why I want to get cracking on a style guide (and handy tools) to help with that.
<IlyaHaykinson> hm, true. i would _love_ to help, and can do a bit here and there.
<IlyaHaykinson> but i think i'll have only a couple of hours per week for the next 3 weeks
<IlyaHaykinson> otherwise i'll be the long pole in my work project, which is no good.
<godbyk> that's cool.
<godbyk> I've got jaminday on board to help, too.
<IlyaHaykinson> nice.
<IlyaHaykinson> i think between all of us, we can make it happen little by little.
<shrini> godbyk: link is changed. thanks
<godbyk> I hope so.
<godbyk> The GNOME docs style guide is quite nice, actually.
<godbyk> The Ubuntu docs style guide seems a lot less well-formed.
<godbyk> Though, I may just be missing the bulk of it.
<godbyk> I've only seen a few wiki pages of it.
<IlyaHaykinson> the GNOME docs guide is what i've mainly been using
<IlyaHaykinson> it's not totally complete though, given that Ubuntu has a few, er, ubuntuisms
<IlyaHaykinson> like Ubuntu One or the Software Center
<IlyaHaykinson> and thus some things that wouldn't be in the guide necessarily
<godbyk> yes.
<godbyk> one of the first things I'm going to do is start a word list that shows the proper spelling (and capitalization) of words we use.
<godbyk> app names, american spellings (vs. british spellings), company/organization names, gui elements, etc.
<IlyaHaykinson> for gui elements, i think it's also helpful to include the proper action names, with examples
<IlyaHaykinson> for example: button -- verbs: /click/, /click on/; use /click/ for common buttons, /click on/ for all other buttons. examples: /click/ \button{OK}. /click on/ the \button{Search Now} button.
<IlyaHaykinson> kinda like the GNOME docs do
<IlyaHaykinson> helped me a ton to have both the noun and verb in the same place
<godbyk> Definitely.
<godbyk> Their page for that was amazing.
<godbyk> We definitely need to pay attention to that.
<bala> shrini: hi
<IlyaHaykinson> nifty; dominic edmunds emailed us.
<godbyk> who?
<IlyaHaykinson> dominic being the lead designer for canonical web things
<IlyaHaykinson> offering help
<godbyk> ah, I see the email now.
<bala> Team: I need help in translating ubuntu-manual
<bala> Team: the pdf and po is not matching
<godbyk> bala: I think that the pot hasn't been updated yet.
<godbyk> Usually dutchie handles that, but he hasn't been online today.
<godbyk> Hopefully he'll turn up at some point. :)
<bala> godbylc: Where i get it
<bala> godbyk: when i get it?
<godbyk> bala: I'm not sure yet.  We will email the Ubuntu Manual mailing list when it's ready though.
<shrini> bala: dutchie is a person who maintains the po
<IlyaHaykinson> ok, going to sleep now
<shrini> he has to do it
<godbyk> G'night, IlyaHaykinson.
<jaminday> hi all
<shrini> let us hope
<jaminday> bye IlyaHaykinson
<godbyk> Hey, jaminday.
<bala> Shrini: But problem only in pdf
<jaminday> godbyk: evenin'
<godbyk> jaminday: Ready to get crackin' on a style guide? :)
<shrini> bala: yes. pdf and po should match
<godbyk> bala: What is the problem?
<jaminday> godbyk: don't we get even a days rest! ;)
<godbyk> jaminday: nope! :)
<bala> godbyk:the data in the pdf is mismatch in po file
<godbyk> bala: Ah, I understand.  When dutchie gets here, I will have him update the po file and rebuild the pdfs.
<bala> godbyk: for example: id no. 236 "This section describes how to use additional security programs to increase "
<bala> "the security of your system." is in po file.
<bala> godbyk: but in pdf pg no: 138 You may also want to use a ï¬rewall, or use encryption, to further increase the
<bala> security of your system. like this
<godbyk> bala: Right.  We have been doing a lot of changes this week.  But we're not making any more changes now.
<godbyk> When dutchie arrives, he will update the po files for you so that they match the PDF.
<bala> godbyk: oh ok ok
<jaminday> hahaha... i just saw the audio book announcement
<shrini> jaminday: it is great
<godbyk> Heh.
<jaminday> shrini: yes it is. Had me scratching my head for a couple of minutes though...
<shrini> hahaha
<godbyk> I'm enjoying the comments on the omgubuntu article about it.
<jaminday> godbyk: ooh i'll have a read
<jaminday> godbyk: so what's the verdict now that we are past writing freeze?
<bala> godbyk: thank you for ur information
<godbyk> bala: You're welcome.
<godbyk> jaminday: what verdict?
<jaminday> well should we be celebrating or hiding... I'm sure there is probably still lots of stuff that didn't get fixed
<godbyk> jaminday: ha! yeah, I'm not really sure.
<godbyk> mostly I've been avoiding thinking about it. :)
<jaminday> hehe
<godbyk> we need to branch soon, but I don't know how best to do that. and we need to get the translations updated so the translators can start working against a stable branch.
<jaminday> yeah ok
<godbyk> I really want to get the style guide started, too, so that's in place before editors and authors start getting to deep into the second edition.
<jaminday> yep, maybe we should get stuck into it after the easter break
<godbyk> when is easter?
<jaminday> you guys don't have easter?
<godbyk> we do.
<godbyk> I just never pay any attention.
<jaminday> hehe
<godbyk> and since I don't have classes or a job, holidays have little impact on me. :)
<godbyk> looks like this sunday.
<godbyk> I think I'm supposed to head to my parents house for easter break. I need to talk to them and confirm that sometime.
<godbyk> but yeah, that sounds like a good idea to me.
<godbyk> I'm kind of anxious to see what kind of chatter comes of beta release.
<jaminday> godbyk: sorry just got hijacked by the neighbours
<jaminday> i gotta head out but definitely will catch up when I'm back in a couple of days and work on the style guide
<godbyk> no problem.
<godbyk> sounds like a plan.
<godbyk> see ya later!
<jaminday> great, bye!
<c7p> hello guys, great job ;)
<c7p> I 've go a question. Have you uploaded the translation template on launchpad ?
<artnay> c7p: not yet
<c7p> artnay: will it be on today?
<artnay> c7p: I don't know, dutchie is responsible for that. you're the second one today to ask the same question ;)
<artnay> 10:32     godbyk : Usually dutchie handles that, but he hasn't been online today.
<artnay> so let's just wait
<c7p> :p ok thank you
<godbyk> Sorry about all the confusion. I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure how and fear totally mucking it up.
<c7p> no problem, just inform us via e-mail
<artnay> godbyk: what about the website-translations, will there be a lot changes before the 29th?
<godbyk> artnay: I don't think there will be a ton of changes, but I don't know that they've been edited yet.
<godbyk> c7p: Will do. We'll send a post to the mailing list when it's read.
<godbyk> ready.
<c7p> pk:)
<c7p> ok*
<godbyk> I think I'll email dutchie just in case he doesn't pop on IRC.
<nisshh> yay! beta released!
<popey> where do i file bugs against the beta?
<nisshh> popey: same place as before i presume
<popey> yeah, where's that?
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual has no mention of "bug"
<nisshh> http://ubuntu-manual.org/?bugs
<nisshh> try that
<popey> thank you!
<nisshh> no probs
<humphreybc> hey peeps
<nisshh> yo
 * popey files another bug
<nisshh> saw your omgubuntu post!
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> nice work
<humphreybc> there were two so far
<humphreybc> i just had a nap
<nisshh> yea, both lol
<humphreybc> for 5 hours
<nisshh> hehe, "rested your eyes"
<humphreybc> man i needed it, i was pretty much falling over beforehand :P
<nisshh> hehe, iv had 5 hours sleep in 48 hours lol
<nisshh> funny though, i feel really good, not tired at all
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> humphreybc: is there a list somewhere of things to be included in the second edition?
<humphreybc> nope
<nisshh> oh well, dunno what im ganno do now lol
<nisshh> gonna*
<humphreybc> this sucks. something has has happened to the way ubuntu handles my touchpad input... it's crazy sensitive now even on lowest acceleration and sensitivity and also no more edge scrolling :(
<humphreybc> you could tell me what's happening with quickshot
<nisshh> could be because of the new version of launchpad
<humphreybc> (which is the reason I came on here to see if everything has finished so I can post it)
<nisshh> what do you need to know?
<humphreybc> whether it has been uploaded to godbyks server
<humphreybc> what the permanent link is for it
<nisshh> how do i find that out?
<humphreybc> whether it actually wokrs!
<humphreybc> works*
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> godbyk-android:  ping ping pingy ping
<godbyk> hey, I'm here
<godbyk> one sec
<humphreybc> k
 * humphreybc sees the ISO URL on the wiki
<nisshh> oh yea, i found a netbook running ubuntu
<nisshh> is hell cheap too
<godbyk> okay, back now.
<nisshh> getting my brand new SATA HDD today!
<godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, the iso is up, and I linked it from the wiki and the test site.
<humphreybc> godbyk, neat, i'm downloading it now. i'm going to post the omg article in a sec once I verify the PPA works
<humphreybc> it's downloading the ISO at 6.6KB/s.... =S
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> I haven't tested the iso, but I did download it successfully.
<godbyk> I was downloading it at 1 MB/s.
<godbyk> humphreybc: you should get off that island and get faster internet service. :)
<humphreybc> hahaha
<nisshh> godbyk: lol
<komsas> hey, when the new strings will come to launchpad translate (rosetta)?
<godbyk> komsas: As soon as dutchie does it. :)
<godbyk> I've emailed him about it in case he doesn't pop into IRC.
<humphreybc> ugggggh this new trackpad thing is horrible
<komsas> thanks, I see there will be a lot of stuff.
<humphreybc> i'm hoping it's just a matter of restarting X
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/quickshot-released-ppa-and-livecd.html
<humphreybc> brb
<humphreybc1> hooray
<humphreybc1> restarted X did fix my mouse
<humphreybc1> is that post okay?
<nisshh> humphreybc: nice post!
<humphreybc1> we need more female mugshots
<humphreybc1> lol
<issyl0> Hi all!
 * issyl0 is doing some website translation now.
<komsas> Guys, who deleted all main branch?
<godbyk> komsas: What do you mean?
 * komsas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools'_Day
<godbyk> aha.
<godbyk> :)
<komsas> heheh
<godbyk> point to komsas! :)
<issyl0> :P
<humphreybc1> lol
<komsas> ok, now a real thing, yesterday I found this cute dalmantian dog in my yard http://img535.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0392t.jpg
<godbyk> now I'm scared to click the link!
<komsas> it is real !
<komsas> Limax maximus
<humphreybc1> so
<humphreybc1> i guess... now we wait
<humphreybc1> thorwil: ping
<godbyk> guess so
<humphreybc1> 10 minutes left to download the live CD
<humphreybc1> i'm going to run it in a vbox and start reporting bugs bugs bugs
<issyl0> humphreybc1: of lucid?
<humphreybc1> oh, i might do some screenshotting too
<humphreybc1> :P
<humphreybc1> i'm kinda worried now, you know why?
<humphreybc1> kinda
<humphreybc1> i'm worried because now the translations and screenshots are out of my control
<humphreybc1> apart from trying to convince as many people to help as possible, there's not much else I can do
<humphreybc1> actually, i believe the Lucid translation freeze is coming up in the next few days. Which is great for us because then all the translators will have nothing to do so they can come translate for us!
<humphreybc1> I need to get some posts on the planet
<humphreybc1> as well as work with LoCo teams, i'll talk with Laura
<humphreybc1> we need to get people translating like no one has ever translated before!
<issyl0> Hehe
<issyl0> I've started, I've translated at least 100 strings already this morning into en_GB.  I might dive into the French as well soon.
<humphreybc1> and dutchie needs to update the damn translations asap
<issyl0> Heh
<humphreybc1> okay
<humphreybc1> :)
<humphreybc1> that's great to hear!
<komsas> humphreybc1: yep, we are waiting new strings! :)
<humphreybc1> goddammit dutchie!
<nisshh> lol
<humphreybc1> :)
<komsas> :D
<humphreybc1> komsas: you can translate the website in the meantime!
<komsas> someone doing this now ;)
<humphreybc1> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+pots/ubu-man-website-translations
 * komsas writting new post about new beta realise ;)
<godbyk> I haven't seen dutchie all day. :(
<nisshh> i was talking to him last night i think
<nisshh> extremely briefly
<humphreybc1> okay
<humphreybc1> testing quickshot live CD in a virtual box
<humphreybc1> let's see how it goes
<thorwil> humphreybc1: pong
<humphreybc1> wow
<humphreybc1> it seems to work
<humphreybc1> hey thorwil
<TommyBrunn> How often is the website translations updated? I did some work on the Swedish translation (currently at around 40%) yesterday or the day before that, but it's still not available in the list of languages.
<humphreybc1> I was wondering if you could be so kind as to write a blog post summarizing the beta release, writing freeze and quickshot release, with an emphasis on how people can help us.. then post it to the planet?
<humphreybc1> We need to get some material on planet ubuntu about all this and we need to get people helping asap
<humphreybc1> seeing as you're a member of the team :)
<godbyk> TommyBrunn: I haven't looked at the website code for quite a while, but I think the menu list may be static.  Don't quote me on that, though.
<humphreybc1> I think we need to freeze the website strings asap
<humphreybc1> so stuff that needs to be done this weekend (i'm going away)
<godbyk> humphreybc1: we should probably edit the text then.  (I haven't looked at it at all yet.)
<thorwil> humphreybc1: do you have an outline for me? :)
<humphreybc1> branches need sorting out
<humphreybc1> website needs to be fine tuned
<humphreybc1> string freeze for website
<humphreybc1> on Monday test.ubuntu-manual.org should switch over to ubuntu-manual.org with great care being taken to ensure stuff like the progress bar and download links are kept intact!
<humphreybc1> quickshot and translations need to be pimped everywhere, on blogs, planets, twitter, facebook, all over the place
<humphreybc1> yeah, i know
<humphreybc1> thorwil: not yet but I can write one up tomorrow if I have time. If not, you may need to go through the two posts on OMG! and take the relevant information out
<thorwil> humphreybc1: ok
<humphreybc1> I'm going to try my best to write up a summary because a few other people want it (like the UK podcast)
<humphreybc1> if I do, i'll email you. If you don't hear from me in 12 hours, assume I haven't got around to it and you'll have to do one yourself :)
<TommyBrunn> There are some major inconsistencies in referring to LaTeX, TeX, TeX Live, etc. Sometimes it's written as "tex", sometimes as "TeX", etc. Which one is correct?
<nisshh> TommyBrun: it should be LaTeX or TeX
<nisshh> or TeX Live
<humphreybc1> okay, i'm off to sleep
<humphreybc1> chow
<godbyk> TommyBrunn: It should be TeX and LaTeX if it's in plain text.  If it's in LaTeX (or TeX), write \LaTeX or \TeX.
<TommyBrunn> Alright, godbyk, thank you.
<dutchie> here now
<dutchie> doing it
<godbyk> dutchie: \o/
<godbyk> When it's finished, will you email the mailing list and give the translators the green light?
<dutchie> bloody 20KB/s pulling of bzr
<godbyk> it's been slow for me lately, too.
<godbyk> I'm off to bed, too.  See ya!
<ubuntujenkins> woops i feel asleep again.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'm off to bed, too.  Btw, the ISO has been downloaded 37 times so far.
<ubuntujenkins> nice 37 times and only 2 bugs both from ben
<ubuntujenkins> o/ godbyk
<godbyk> :)
<dutchie> ahh, resolving translation conflicts to uupc. what a life
<popey> ?
<dutchie> ? what?
<ubuntujenkins> this channel is quite today not so much to do...........
<dutchie> any of the swedish translators here?
<dutchie> anybody here speak swedish?
<ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn speaks swedish if he is around
<popey> dutchie: i didnt understand that sentence
<dutchie> popey: I am listening to uupc while resolving the conflicts from merging translations
<popey> ahhhh
<popey> "to uupc" didnt parse for me :)
<dutchie> get a new parser ;)
<TommyBrunn> dutchie, what do you need help with?
<dutchie> merge conflicts on the swedish translation
<dutchie> if I paste a diff, can you tell me what to keep?
<TommyBrunn> I can try
<dutchie> http://paste.ubuntu.com/407535/
<TommyBrunn> What am I looking for here?
<dutchie> the items in msgstr are the translations of the text in msgid
<dutchie> I need to know which is a better translation is better on lines 41/50
<TommyBrunn> Well, the translation for "Alternative download options" is kind of weird. I'd say "Nedladdningsalternativ" rather than "Alternativ fÃ¶r hÃ¤mtning"
<TommyBrunn> Row 42 is better than 43
<TommyBrunn> 51 is better than 52
<dutchie> OK, thank
<dutchie> s
<TommyBrunn> No problem.
<TommyBrunn> Hm, should Bazaar be referred to as bzr or Bazaar in plain text?
<TommyBrunn> The source text says bzr, but I don't think it should.
<dutchie> gah
<dutchie> *** Bazaar has encountered an internal error.  This probably indicates a
<dutchie>     bug in Bazaar.  You can help us fix it by filing a bug report at
<dutchie>         https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+filebug
<dutchie>     attaching the crash file
<dutchie>         /home/josh/.cache/crash/bzr-20100401123304-11346.crash
<dutchie>     and including a description of the problem.
<dutchie>     The crash file is plain text and you can inspect or edit it to remove
<dutchie>     private information.
<TommyBrunn> Oh great, there's no direct Swedish translation of artwork. Time to get creative...
<TommyBrunn> "who saw the need for targeted up-to-date and consistent documentation for the Ubuntu operating system"
<TommyBrunn> What does "targeted" mean in this context? Targeted at a specific group?
<dutchie> yeah
<TommyBrunn> Alright. Thanks.
<dutchie> go faster, po4a
<TommyBrunn> Man, I've translated over 30% of the website today. If someone goes and changes every string, I'm going to go berserk.
<TommyBrunn> And I'm done!
<TommyBrunn> Except for 3 strings that I can't translate.
<artnay> TommyBrunn: nice work, greetings from west
<artnay> uh... EAST, make it east! :D
<TommyBrunn> Thank you. Though I'm sure a lot of stuff will have to be changed once we can see the translation in context (right now Swedish is not available in the list of languages on the site).
<TommyBrunn> What's the URL to the manual builds?
<dutchie> http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<ubuntujenkins> some people are doing screenshots there have been some uploads
<dutchie> go faster, stupid po4a
<ubuntujenkins> your still doing it dutchie
<dutchie> yes :(
<dutchie> it's only on en_GB, and going alphabetically
<ubuntujenkins> on the topic of translations, the quickshot project randomly got a po folder how are they generated?
<dutchie> through the magic of quickly
<ubuntujenkins> it only got it yesterday which was so random
<dutchie> maybe a quickly update got through or something
<ubuntujenkins> probably
<danyR> hey guys, has the beta translation template already been uploaded to translation page?
<dutchie> it's being produced
<dutchie> it may take a while
<dutchie> should be up by tomorrow morning
<danyR> dutchie: so, i'm translating now, won't lost anything, will I?
<dutchie> there is a distinct possibility you're translating text that is no longer in the beta
<dutchie> about 674 out of 1500 or so strings were unchanged
<dutchie> you're best off waiting to be honest
<danyR> about the mugshots, it's face only right? and what size?
<TommyBrunn> danyR: At least 800x600, I believe he said.
<TommyBrunn> Or 600x800, depending on orientation.
<danyR> hmmm nice,I have one around with 960x1280 :O I'm going to cut the landscape and resize it :)
<danyR> cellphone-taken, very bad quality, but ok
<titeuf_87> Hey Red_HamsterX, do you know what still needs to be done/tested with Quickshot?
<wolfsome> Buenas tardes a todos
<wolfsome> acabo de solicitar unirme al grupo de traducciÃ³n en Launchpad
<danyR> An 743x963 mugshot will work?
<titeuf_87> Hey ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> hey titeuf_87
<ubuntujenkins> well we have the release out and only two bugs, last time i spoke with godbyk he said we had 37 downloads of the cd
<titeuf_87> Oooh neat, can we still fix those bugs on time?
<titeuf_87> Saw tons of mails about bug reports, but I think they got all closed?
<Red_HamsterX> Everything except the two most recent bugs were addressed.
<Red_HamsterX> As well as a number of little things we found just before the launch.
<Red_HamsterX> (Like the fact that RTL environments are *entirely* RTL)
<titeuf_87> What do you mean with that?
<ubuntujenkins> thanks for all your work Red_HamsterX and titeuf_87, the two most recent are very minor one is wish list
<Red_HamsterX> They're complete mirror images of things like English and French.
<Red_HamsterX> The log-out button is on the left.
<ubuntujenkins> so all the grid references for sectional screenshots had to be fliped
<ubuntujenkins> if the langauge was rtl
<Red_HamsterX> Welcome, ubuntujenkins. Feel free to assign things to me if you want.
<titeuf_87> Ah, wouldn't it be easier to just check if a language is rtl and then programmaticaly flip the coordinates?
<Red_HamsterX> I'll create a new EtherPad after I add some effects to a PyWeek entry.
<ubuntujenkins> I will do the two bugs were cd related so i assigned my self
<Red_HamsterX> That's what we ended up doing.
<Red_HamsterX> But figuring out how to detect it an hour and a half before the freeze was fun.
<titeuf_87> Worst case scenario and as a quick fix could have just added a checkbox, but nice to see that it got fixed anyways :)
<Red_HamsterX> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/
<Red_HamsterX> People are using it!
<Red_HamsterX> (The ja and ar ones were me)
<ubuntujenkins> its gone up since i last looked
<ubuntujenkins> 21 french ones , 1 more it one
<Red_HamsterX> I'll pick up some of the less-complete languages next week.
<ubuntujenkins> see how the translators get on
<godbyk> I'm conscious again.
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk
<ubuntujenkins> how many downloads now ?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I was just looking, and it's tricky to say.
<godbyk> 'cause some have been start-stop-resume downloads and things.
<godbyk> I'm going to have to find a better way to count them.
<ubuntujenkins> are ok
<ubuntujenkins> I have just started looking at why the builds for other langauges are failing and it looks to be the same thing so far. But i can't find where in the po file the error is
<godbyk> ah, yeah, I need to look at that today, too.
<godbyk> It looks like it's the \ignorespaces command.
<godbyk> Because po4a is being stupid and doing something it shouldn't be doing.
<godbyk> I'll have to edit the main.tex file to fix it.
<godbyk> Did we ever get the branches set up?
<ubuntujenkins> no nothing has been done what needs doing?
<godbyk> Basically, we should set up branches to implement Ilya's plan.
<godbyk> one for the 10.04 1e, one for 10.04 2e, and one for 10.10 (though this last one can probably wait a bit).
<godbyk> The 1e branch will be for translators, the 2e branch will be for authors/editors to continue improving, and the 10.10 branch will be for starting on the 10.10 edition.
<ubuntujenkins> do we keep the current main for 10.04 1e?
<ubuntujenkins> i thought it would be better to branch 10.04 1e off
<ubuntujenkins> keeping main for 10.04 e2
<godbyk> I think main should be e2 and that 1e should be branched off (so it's harder for people to access, frankly).
<ubuntujenkins> thats good that we agree how does it effect translations?
<godbyk> no clue whatsoever.
<ubuntujenkins> we don't want to mess it up
<ubuntujenkins> we need to work out how to point the translations at 10.04 e1 branch and not main
<godbyk> right.
<godbyk> I figured I'd pester dutchie or someone smarter than me to work that out.
<ubuntujenkins> you are smart translations are just not your area
<godbyk> Heh. While I'm normally excited to learn new things, I think I'll avoid it in this case just because I don't need more things on my plate right now. :)
<ubuntujenkins> DUTCHIE!!!
<godbyk> I'm rebuilding the translated PDFs now.
<godbyk> one thing I can do is pull the updated .po files, at lesat.
<godbyk> I'll leave the .pot work to dutchie though.
<godbyk> let him face the translators' wrath. :-)
<ubuntujenkins> how come the english uk and english australian ones have so many errors?
<godbyk> not sure. I haven't looked at those yet.
<godbyk> it looks like they hate the screenshots.
<ubuntujenkins> strange
<ubuntujenkins> etherpad is shutting down http://etherpad.com/ep/blog/posts/transition-update
<ubuntujenkins> we can use http://ietherpad.com/ we need to move the todo list across
<godbyk> is the todo list on etherpad or on a separate etherpad host?
<ubuntujenkins> i was just looking i think it might be on a seperate host
<ubuntujenkins> ours is on pad.ubuntu-uk.org
<ubuntujenkins> is there something i can do for an hour or so?
<popey> pad.ubuntu-uk.org isnt going away :)
<ubuntujenkins> I didn't realise that there were differnt versions, in needed something to do
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: have people been taking screenshots with quickshot?
<godbyk> also, what's the process to pull those screenshots into the manual's branch?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<ubuntujenkins> we need you to recompile php so we can download them to check them
<ubuntujenkins> once they are checked they are added to the langauge bzr branch https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-screenshots I have the script to merge them into the main screenshots branch. then they can be merged with ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: removing that \ignorespaces bit fixed most the builds: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<godbyk> I'm going to recompile them (again) with the translations I just pulled in.
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> what options did you guys need me to compile php with?
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX knows
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX, Red_HamsterX, Red_HamsterX!
<godbyk> See if that summons him. :)
<ubuntujenkins> from yesterdays log [23:50] <Red_HamsterX> Zip is the only non-standard option I require.
 * ubuntujenkins needs something to do
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> hmm.. something for ubuntujenkins to do..
<godbyk> well, you could find more bugs in the beta pdf.
<ubuntujenkins> I will build the latest version where am i filing them? google docs thing?
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<Red_HamsterX> Jist zip, godbyk. I think everything else is standard enough that you couldn't build PHP without it.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll grab the flag.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: thanks!
<Red_HamsterX> --enable-zip
<godbyk> well that's easy enough.
<godbyk> I'll get compiling, then.
<ubuntujenkins> sweet i have had the poppler update the pictures look good now
<godbyk> awesome. I'm downloading the updates now.
<godbyk> I was having to wait for the x64 version to build and get pushed out.
<ubuntujenkins> I think it might be out i am on x64
<ubuntujenkins> o i need to redo the login screenshot
<godbyk> Updated builds with the latest translations: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<godbyk> Aha!
<godbyk> Figured out why the english translations are failing.
<godbyk> If you look, the translations with _ in their language codes are all failing big-time.
<godbyk> that's 'cause _ is a special char for latex.
<godbyk> I'll fix that up in a moment.
<ubuntujenkins> does it need escaping in the make command then?
<godbyk> I think I have to do some funky low-level tex coding to work around it, but it should just be a one-line change.
<godbyk> let me try to fix that real quick before I work on php.
<godbyk> (the php compilation is scary.. so many options and libs!)
<godbyk> wow!
<godbyk> the difference in the appearance of the screenshots is stunning!
<donri> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/comments/564
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 532633 in metacity "[Master] Window Control buttons: position/order/alignment" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<donri> You'll have to redo all screenshots.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks for the heads up donri, we have 44 screenshots done so far across the board, need to look at those and see what positon the buttons are in
<donri> The position will stay to the left, but they changed the order again.
<TommyBrunn> I believe there is mention of the window controls and their order in the manual itself, so that'll have to be edited as well.
<ubuntujenkins> sorry i ment to say order of buttons
<donri> It's stupid, the whole point was to make it more sane for LTR reading. Now they put the most destructive action first.
<ubuntujenkins> its not happend yet in lucid. should we stop people screen shoting?
<ubuntujenkins> thats a point TommyBrunn I will file a bug
<TommyBrunn> ubuntujenkins: I don't think stopping people from taking screenshots, only to have them start again in a day or so (it can't take them that long to roll out an update to the theme, can it?) would be very practical.
<ubuntujenkins> hopefully it will be in tonight/tomorrow will we keep the old ones?
<TommyBrunn> It's only a maximum of 44 screenshots. It would seem they could be replaced fairly easily. But I'm not really involved with that stuff, so it's your call.
<TommyBrunn> I'm going to take a pee-pee break before the Ubuntu Forum Council meeting starts.
<TommyBrunn> Oh crap, I must have read the time wrong. It doesn't start for nother hour
<ubuntujenkins> I will wait and see how quickly the change takes to come through
<Red_HamsterX> The new bug report makes me happy.
<Red_HamsterX> Despite the fact that it's a bug report.
<ubuntujenkins> I have just read some of the comments on bug 532633 people get very anoyed about some buttons
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 532633 in metacity "[Master] Window Control buttons: position/order/alignment" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532633
<Red_HamsterX> Given the commant Mark posted, could we reconfigure Quickshot to just issue its opposite as part of its startup/installation routine?
<Red_HamsterX> command*
<ubuntujenkins> I don't understand what you mean
<Red_HamsterX> To revert to old layout, run in a terminal:
<Red_HamsterX> $ gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/button_layout --type string "menu:minimize,maximize,close"
<ubuntujenkins> but we need the new layout
<Red_HamsterX> It seems revering the order would lead to the desired order.
<Red_HamsterX> reversing*
<ubuntujenkins> we could add a line to the start of each screenshot entry command part to put the buttons in the new order that way we have the new order before the theme update
<ubuntujenkins> and thats the best way to get it to the users who downloaded the cd today
<ubuntujenkins> downloading a whole cd for a button change.
<ubuntujenkins> adding gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/button_layout --type string "close,minimize,maximize:" to each section would sovle it
<ubuntujenkins> thats the new layout
<donri> If you just change the order, the theme will look crap, I think.
<ubuntujenkins> the buttons is the only thing they are changing the theme is all ready in lucid
<donri> The indentation behind the buttons wont line up correctly, and look cut off.
<ubuntujenkins> I think they have fixed that it looks fine here
<donri> In any order?
<ubuntujenkins> yep looks fine to me
<godbyk> Yeah, I'll have to update the manual's text for that, too.
<ubuntujenkins> http://imagebin.org/91270 < donri
<donri> Oh, cool.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: shall i just add gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/button_layout --type string "close,minimize,maximize:" to each section would sovle it to the server file?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: has php compiled yet?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: no, my mother called and distracted me. I'm just now back at the computer.
<ubuntujenkins> kk np
<Red_HamsterX> No, it's something that would need to be run or set when setting up Quickshot.
<Red_HamsterX> Setting it in .profile would work, too.
<Red_HamsterX> I don't think we can chain commands with subprocess.Popen... but I'll try.
<Red_HamsterX> No, it's treating && as a token.
<Red_HamsterX> We'd need to get that client-side, somehow.
<Red_HamsterX> We could add a dummy screencap that they're to "take"...
<Red_HamsterX> Just capture a 1x1 section of the screen and run that command...
<Red_HamsterX> We should be able to do that without breaking anything.
<ubuntujenkins> I don't understand why we can't add it at the start of each of the =command= sections rather than doing a dummy screenshot?
<Red_HamsterX> It'll just add a '00-button-fix' PNG to the archive, which LaTeX will ignore because it's never referenced.
<Red_HamsterX> Because we also need to run the real command.
<Red_HamsterX> The design limits us to a single command.
<ubuntujenkins> o i see now but we have to get everyone to do the button fix screencap each time
<ubuntujenkins> they run the cd
<Red_HamsterX> No, just once.
<Red_HamsterX> It's a gconf change
<Red_HamsterX> So it should affect that user's profile forever once set.
<ubuntujenkins> the user isn't saved on the live cd
<Red_HamsterX> Unless a dist-upgrade changes it back.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, yeah...
<Red_HamsterX> We could put the command on the download page and ask them to >> it into .profile, then re-login as the Quickshot user...
<Red_HamsterX> ...but that's getting complicated.
<Red_HamsterX> And some people would miss it.
<ubuntujenkins> can we not automatically paste the new buttons over the old ones?
<ubuntujenkins> i don't know if it is possible
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, we could do that, too.
<Red_HamsterX> IT's quite possible.
<Red_HamsterX> And quite possibly the cleanest solution.
<Red_HamsterX> We'd just need to knwo which buttons appear on each window.
<Red_HamsterX> Which we can determine easily.
<ubuntujenkins> thats not to bad then
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, let's work with that.
<ubuntujenkins> anyone running lucid will get the update soon anyway
<Red_HamsterX> I'll craft a script that reads a list of filenames and image-bits to overlay.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks i will be interested to know how its done
<Red_HamsterX> Then just use PIL to draw the new piece in the top-left.
<Red_HamsterX> And save over the old file.
<Red_HamsterX> (PIL: Python Image Library)
<Red_HamsterX> Or I could do it in PHP, at export-time...
<ubuntujenkins> so we will do that before we add them to bzr right?
<ubuntujenkins> php sound better
<Red_HamsterX> If the graphics libraries are on the server.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk!!
<Red_HamsterX> Python's probably better. We have more control that way.
<Red_HamsterX> We don't run the risk of corrupting the originals.
<ubuntujenkins> that is true
<Red_HamsterX> I'll get a prototype ready.
<godbyk> What's up?
<ubuntujenkins> don't worry we did have a php question about your server
<Red_HamsterX> Nothing. We were just debating how to solve the flipped button order problem.
<ubuntujenkins> good old copy and paste ftw
<Red_HamsterX> We like highlighting you. :)
<godbyk> okey doke. :-)
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, actually, there'll be one exception to this script. We'll need to give it some sort of flag in RTL mode.
<Red_HamsterX> And have RTL samples available.
<ubuntujenkins> silly rtl :P
<Red_HamsterX> (Yes, RTL reverses that, too)
<ubuntujenkins> neil i am assigning you to the bug and marking as in progess if thats ok?
<Red_HamsterX> I was just about to do that.
<Red_HamsterX> Go ahead.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll hit the APIs instead.
<ubuntujenkins> thnaks
<ubuntujenkins> i am off all night o/
<Red_HamsterX> It just occurred to me that I left the en branch polluted yesterday.
<Red_HamsterX> I've emptied it, but we may have confused the en cappers.
<Red_HamsterX> (I'm sure they'll figure it out, though)
<ubuntujenkins> meh life goes on
<ubuntujenkins> night
<dutchie> po4a is still updating, godbyk etc
<godbyk> dutchie: still?! dang!
<godbyk> I pulled down some fresh .po files to try to keep the questions at bay.
<godbyk> (had a couple in here yesterday because the pdfs didn't match the po files or something.)
<dutchie> that is entirely possible
<dutchie> that won't go away until po4a's finished though
<dutchie> it's in ro.po
<dutchie> I started it about 10 hours ago
<godbyk> wow.
<godbyk> Is there a better way to handle translations than po4a, do you think?
<dutchie> not that I've found
<dutchie> only thing I could think of is a perl script, and po4a's done that already
<godbyk> right.
<godbyk> is the fuzziness bug a problem with po4a or with rosetta?
<dutchie> rosetta drops fuzzy translations
<godbyk> that's lame.
<godbyk> are there better translation tools (than rosetta)?
<godbyk> basically, is there any way we can improve the translation process?
<godbyk> what software would it take to do it?
<godbyk> (if we had to write our own, quickshot-style)
<dutchie> I don't think there's a better solution really, without reinventing translations from the ground up
<Red_HamsterX> Sounds fun.
<Red_HamsterX> (No, really)
<Red_HamsterX> Programmatically assign a unique ID to each paragraph and version-control each language against those IDs.
<Red_HamsterX> Something like a GUID system.
<godbyk> dutchie: hmm... well, that's a less than satisfactory answer. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Then pull the conent, by GUID, into a LaTeX template and go.
<Red_HamsterX> Sounds like a Masters project!
<Red_HamsterX> (LaTeX/whatever)
<donri> I'm curious why you didn't use docbook for the manual?
<Red_HamsterX> Probably give the reference implementation a Leo-style GUI...
<Red_HamsterX> LaTeX is awesome.
<dutchie> if it comes down to it, we can patch rosetta
<godbyk> donri: that decision was made before my time.  but one advantage to latex is that it's easier for people to mark up, I think.
<godbyk> there's less markup in a .tex file than a docbook file.
<godbyk> we'd have to go from docbook to tex to get good pdfs anyway.
<donri> But how good HTML do you get from LaTeX?
<dutchie> that wasn't a consideration
<godbyk> donri: good question.  I haven't messed with that, too much.
<godbyk> the original goal was a pdf
<godbyk> html is down the list a ways.
<donri> I'm curious because we're converting a 700 page book to some better source format.
<dutchie> 700?
<donri> Yep.
<donri> The Complete Lojban Language.
<dutchie> blimey
<godbyk> if your authors/editors/whoever are familiar with docbook/xml, then I'd say go for it.
<godbyk> but for our situation, I think latex was the better choice.
 * godbyk doesn't know too much about docbook.
 * Red_HamsterX knows a fair bit about Docbook, having had to use it when writing the Yelp docs.
<donri> Preference?
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: how do you like it?
<Red_HamsterX> It makes for nice linked documents.
<Red_HamsterX> Which is probably more helpful in an online system.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: and how easy is it to define new elements and convert them to latex code?
<Red_HamsterX> I'd always pick LaTeX for anything formal/printed/monolithic, though.
<Red_HamsterX> No idea. I've never translated between the two.
<donri> We print, but also want linked per-chapter-or-section HTML.
<Red_HamsterX> You'd probably want Docbook, then.
<donri> Aye.
<Red_HamsterX> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/pyrc/Dictionaries/ That's from about four hours of Docbook hacking, with no custom CSS or formatting rules.
<Red_HamsterX> It's pretty easy to create intelligent structures.
<Red_HamsterX> (Generated back in 2007)
<donri> http://dag.github.com/cilre/place-structure.xml Docbook with custom XSL+CSS. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, Docbook generated very pretty content for screen-oriented environments.
<Red_HamsterX> generates*
<Red_HamsterX> (I had no need to make my API reference pretty, though)
<Red_HamsterX> (I just needed something I could use to write plugins)
<donri> But I see no reason why you can't just generate LaTeX from Docbook?
<donri> Or do you loose a lot of valuable LaTeX power?
 * dutchie hunts for the original meeting
<Red_HamsterX> Dunno. My experience playing with the XSLTs was limited to HTML translations and pulling data from various files, broken up into sections of chapters.
<dutchie> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/01/02/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<godbyk> donri: you can generate latex from docbook, but you'd probably want to clean it up a lot before printing.
<Red_HamsterX> LaTeX's markup isn['t overly complicated, though. It would be pretty easy to encapsulate everything important based on the output of Docbook.
<Red_HamsterX> But you'd be wasting a lot of Docbook's processing power.
<donri> godbyk, because the default XSLTs suck or even with custom XSLTs?
<godbyk> there's a lot of nit-picky typography stuff that can't be handled with a simple format translation.
<Red_HamsterX> Can't you encapsulate almost everything in nested {}, godbyk?
<Red_HamsterX> (At the expense of readability)
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: What do you mean?
<Red_HamsterX> Nothing. I think we're envisioning different problems.
 * Red_HamsterX returns to scripting the Quickshot patch thing.
<godbyk> Some examples of the nit-picky typography: You may need to adjust the space after a period if the sentence ends in a capital letter (e.g., if the final word is an acronym).
<godbyk> I don't think an XSLT will do that for you.
<godbyk> Ah.
<Red_HamsterX> It could. It'd just be ungodly painful.
<donri> Why would I need to do that?
<Red_HamsterX> Or you'd have to create a <nullspace/> tag.
<Red_HamsterX> (And translate it to the appropriate LaTeX function/string)
<godbyk> donri: TeX will use an inter-sentence space after a period if the letter before the period is lowercase.  If it's uppercase, it'll assume that it's an initial in a name (e.g., J. S. Bach) and not use the inter-sentence space.
<godbyk> Yeah, you'd have to create a bunch of little tags.
<donri> Is that space different?
<donri> Can't I just make it the same?
<donri> Or does it guide wrapping and stuff?
<godbyk> And there are times when you may want to adjust things manually. And that's usually dependent upon a particular .tex document (i.e., the adjustments may change or go away if you add a word to the document).
<Red_HamsterX> It's a presentation thing. If you subscribe to old-school conventions, you're supposed to put two spaces after a sentence-ending period.
<Red_HamsterX> Arguably, it does loot a lot nicer in print.
<Red_HamsterX> look*
<godbyk> The space after an initial (like J. S. Bach) should be smaller than the space between two sentences.
<donri> So if I don't care too much about that stuff, I could still get pretty good PDFs with Docbook?
<Red_HamsterX> Well, you could set a LaTeX formatting rule to always use the smaller space...
<Red_HamsterX> Docbook will generate PDFs that look at least as good as the webpages it produces.
<donri> Often, generated PDFs tend to be quite boring. The manual looks awesome.
<donri> Docbook's default HTML templates look shit. :)
<donri> Maybe just need some CSS.
<Red_HamsterX> Custom CSS helps a lot.
<Red_HamsterX> It makes the difference between an API reference and something non-programmers can appreciate. =P
<donri> I'm a programmer and I can't stand ugly documentation. :D
<Red_HamsterX> :(
<donri> I love Sphinx.
 * Red_HamsterX cares more about structure than presentation.
<Red_HamsterX> I love Epydoc.
<dutchie> up to sv.po
<donri> Better presentation better presents structure more structuredly.
<Red_HamsterX> Better structure makes the presented information more structurally presentable.
<donri> Sphinx does structure awesomely. :)
<Red_HamsterX> LaTeX makes math pretty. QED.
<dutchie> this is true
<donri> Sphinx embeds LaTeX math.
<Red_HamsterX> (Yeah, I know that's not what this debate is about)
<godbyk> I think the presentation should reinforce the structure.
<Red_HamsterX> ...Well, drat.
<Red_HamsterX> You win.
<donri> And graphviz graphs.
<dutchie> all of my recent maths coursework has been done in latex, stored in git and replicated via my vps
<godbyk> donri: http://kevin.godby.org/temp/space.pdf  Here are a few examples of different spacing that can be used.
<godbyk> Just for fun.
<godbyk> The first is the default spacing if you write "J. S. Bach"
<godbyk> The second uses a custom space that I created (a hair space).
<godbyk> The third uses a thin space.
<Red_HamsterX> Half-spacing on the third line?
<godbyk> And the fourth uses the sentence space.
<donri> I prefer Beethoven. :)
<Red_HamsterX> The third is the easiest one to read, IMO.
<godbyk> I'm a pedant, but I think small details like that go a long way.
<dutchie> \o/ pedantry
<Red_HamsterX> They help a lot when skimming, which is exactly what more users would do.
<Red_HamsterX> most*
<godbyk> I think that even though most people won't consciously notice that there's too much or too little space here or there, that it still affects their reading.
<donri> Yea, our issue is we have 700 pages to convert, and we need it to be good both in print and on the web.
<dutchie> considered texinfo? ;)
<godbyk> donri: I'd give docbook a try then.  Parsing latex is nearly impossible, so you don't want that to be your main source.
<godbyk> but you'll probably want to go through the generated tex file to tweak things.
<dutchie> info == beardy gnu rubbish
<dutchie> po4a has until midnight or until I have applied this patch to finish, or I'm going to bed
<godbyk> dutchie: I've had po4a get stuck in an infinite loop before when it's trying to deal with a malformed .tex file.
<godbyk> (i.e., if main.tex doesn't compile, po4a freaks but doesn't tell you)
<dutchie> how handy
<dutchie> I've never got it stuck, it just takes ages to update the translations
 * dutchie still has the source checked out of bloody CVS (!) somewhere to read through at some point
<dutchie> I can't believe cvs still exists
<dutchie> it should be banned under human rights laws
<godbyk> lol. no doubt.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-02
<dutchie> ok, midnight
<dutchie> po4a,  you have failed me
<godbyk> Bad, po4a! Bad!
<donri> I wonder if we should use po4a or poxml for docbook.
<donri> Meh, sorry for spamming you guys about our unrelated project.
<godbyk> poxml may be better, I dunno.
<godbyk> po4a tries, but it's kinda iffy sometimes.
<humphreybc> hey guys, just checking in before I head away for the weekend
<humphreybc> obviously everything is under control :P
<Red_HamsterX> Seems like it.
<humphreybc> had anyone use quickshot yet?
<Red_HamsterX> I've got a fix for the control-reordering thing in bzr now.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
<Red_HamsterX> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/
<humphreybc> how many shots have been uploaded?
<Red_HamsterX> A fiar bit of progress already.
<Red_HamsterX> fair*
<humphreybc> wow, nice
<humphreybc> more than I expectedf
<Red_HamsterX> (ar and ja were me)
<donri> And soon you'll have to redo them all. :D
<Red_HamsterX> Nope.
<humphreybc> lol
<Red_HamsterX> I just finsihed coding a screenshot-patcher. :)
<humphreybc> a screenshot patcher? how does this work?
<Red_HamsterX> It'll draw the proper controlbox over the old one.
<humphreybc> wicked!
<humphreybc> About an hour ago I actually emailed Ivanka and told her to hurry up and get the new order in lucid
<Red_HamsterX> It was ubuntujenkins' idea.
<humphreybc> but it seems there is no need :P
<humphreybc> you guys rock
<Red_HamsterX> It's been tested and as long as the proportions don't change (I can't imagine they would), we're covered for LTR and RTL languages.
<humphreybc> fantastic
<donri> Cool.
<Red_HamsterX> All config data's ready, too.
<Red_HamsterX> It's just one extra step, pre-commit.
<Red_HamsterX> I've been updating the bug with details.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/04/02/please-help-us-translate-and-take-screenshots/
<humphreybc> if anyone has a blog or facebook or anything, please spread the word
<humphreybc> I've just emailed pretty much every single relevant mailing list, translations, ubuntu news, ubuntu docs etc asking for help
<humphreybc> hopefully we'll get some people now
<donri> http://ubuntu-manual.org/?audiobook april's fools? o_O
<godbyk> donri: Yep. :)
<Red_HamsterX> It occurs to me that I may need to hide the "Install Ubuntu" icon on the desktop if people are capturing from the CD without installing.
<Red_HamsterX> (It'd be easy to do)
<Red_HamsterX> (I'm just mentioning it 'cause I'm less likely to forget things I've mentioned to others)
<Red_HamsterX> Actually, maybe I should do that now...
<Red_HamsterX> Done.
<Red_HamsterX> ...Actually, I guess that wasn't necessary. The icon isn't there for the Quickshot user.
 * Red_HamsterX creates a fake "Windows" partition on his test box, to create realistic-fake screencaps of the installation process.
<Red_HamsterX> XP is the dominant standard, right?
<Red_HamsterX> Gah. I'm going to lose to the es team :(
<Red_HamsterX> Though they seem to have missed the part about expanding the window...
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, when you get a chance, can you pull the new server content for Quickshot?
<Red_HamsterX> The old 'first slide' reference was totally inaccurate.
<godbyk-android> Red_HamsterX:  it should auto-update every 10 minutes.
<Red_HamsterX> That fast?
<Red_HamsterX> Wow.
<Red_HamsterX> Hmm... Seems I burned a bad LiveCD.
<godbyk-android> I Increase
<Red_HamsterX> The installation halted with an I/O error...
<Red_HamsterX> Do we have a checksum ofr the ISO?
<godbyk-android> I increased the rate the other day when daker was working on it a lot.
<godbyk-android> Nope
<Red_HamsterX> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/get_latest.php?language=es&name=01-first-slide
<Red_HamsterX> Seems like Canonical failed at something
<Red_HamsterX> Wow. Lucid really *is* fast.
 * nisshh is configuring irssi
<Red_HamsterX> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/ One language done. :)
<nisshh> Red_HampsterX: coming along nicely!
<Red_HamsterX> nisshh, tab-completion. =P
<nisshh> Red_HamsterX: yea i know lol, my irssi is half configured so its diffictult to chat lol
<nisshh> fixed now though
<Red_HamsterX> irssi works by default, though.
<nisshh> Red_HamsterX: i know but iv made massive changes to my setup
<nisshh> so at one point it wasnt really working at all
 * dutchie is committing updated po/pot files
<dutchie> oh god
<dutchie> more bloody conflicts
<dutchie> pushing...
* dutchie changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | STRING FREEZE in effect | Translators are good to go | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | TODO LIST: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F
<dutchie> ... as soon as bzr/lp sort themselves out
<dutchie> OK, pushed
<aboSamoor> Hi. I am trying to install tex live 2009. I do not know what to do with this choice "Select where you'd like to install everything". I want to choose the same options chosen by default TexLive packages from repos.
<aboSamoor> thanks, figure it out, there are default values for the installation directories.
<ubuntujenkins> we have quickshot bugs! I missed two packages off of the live cd opps.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk did you manage to get php compiled last night?
<godbyk-android> No, not yet. Sorry.
<godbyk-android> I have to download all the prerequisite libraries first and it's a bit of a process.
<godbyk-android> How's quickshot holding up?
<ubuntujenkins> no problem godbyk-android, quickshot is doing well i missed two packages off of the cd which makes the cd screenshot hard
<ubuntujenkins> just wanted to look at the english screenshots that have been done.
<godbyk-android> Oops. if you upload a new iso, I'll update our on the site for you.
<ubuntujenkins> I will wait untill the theme chnage comes through, but i may have forgotten the password as i thought you would delete the account
<godbyk-android> Good idea. I will email you the password later.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> 10.10 is called  Maverick Meerkat http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/336
<dutchie> start translating!
<ubuntujenkins> hello o/
<dutchie> o/
<ubuntujenkins> looks like the docs team is worried going on the e-mail sent to the team
<dutchie> http://philbull.livejournal.com/54225.html
<dutchie> :(
<ubuntujenkins> o he moans at some stuff i wrote "An example comes from the "Media type" section of the "Connecting and using your printer" topic (p108). There's a list of the "media types" (types of paper, transparency and CD), but nothing that users are likely to find useful, like which way up to put the CD or what "Automatic" does. Focusing on tasks that the user needs to do, rather than tasks that the UI explicitly allows y
<ubuntujenkins> ou to do, is much more useful."
<dutchie> this would have been much less annoying *before* the string freeze
<ubuntujenkins> he didn't like it before we started he was very vocal on the docs mailing list
<ubuntujenkins> the system docs is so slow and very boring with no screenshots
 * dutchie hopes this isn't going to get to mono levels of argument
<donri> Does the screenshot fixing script account for windows having different controls?
<ubuntujenkins> i am happy with the manual they can shout and scream all they like, they are entitled to an opinion.
<ubuntujenkins> donri: I think it will do i haven't looked to understand exactly how it works
<donri> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+lang/sv says website is 100% but the actual website looks more like 0%
<dutchie> it probably hasn't been synced yet
<donri> You should make the website autodetect language.
<ubuntujenkins> donri: the new website does, i think it is out sometime next week
 * donri is translating the manual. \o/
<donri> Core and kernel is the same word in Swedish. :(
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk are you around?
<donri> Swedish uses inflection for definite article; how to do "the \gls{terminal}"?
<dutchie> \gls{word for the terminal}
<dutchie> ooh, maybe not
<dutchie> ask godbyk
<donri> "\newglossaryentry{desktop environment}{name={desktop environment}, description={A generic term to describe a GUI interface for humans to interact with computers. There are many desktop environments such as GNOME, KDE, XFCE and LXDE just to name a few.}}" â GUI? Really? GUI interface even?
<dutchie> string freeze, too late ;)
<dutchie> fix it in your translation if you like
<donri> Someone should bug that for 10.10 at least.
<dutchie> file it now then
<ubuntujenkins> i think you are right dutchie \gls{word for the terminal}
<ubuntujenkins>   \newglossaryentry{â¨keywordâ©}{name={â¨termâ©},description={â¨definitionâ©}}
<donri> I expect something like \glspl might be needed?
<ubuntujenkins> donri translate desktop environment  , desktop environment, A generic term to describe a GUI interface for humans to interact with computers. There are many desktop environments such as GNOME, KDE, XFCE and LXDE just to name a few.
<donri> "A terminal" is "en terminal" but "the terminal" is "terminalen" ...
<donri> I get what to translate, just thought GUI was a bad choice there.
<donri> I doubt people know what a GUI is.
<donri> And a GUI interface is an interface interface.
<ubuntujenkins> i saw that :-)
<donri> Man, translating isn't easy. Crazy TeX formatting and technical english.
 * donri is doing like one string a minute OSLT.
<donri> Maybe because I got lots of glossary entries to start with. :P
<godbyk> Hey, guys.
<godbyk> I'm going to be at my parents' house for the weekend, so I won't be online as much.  (Leaving soon.)
<godbyk> You can still ping godbyk-android (and that'll reach my phone) if you need me.
<godbyk> For the glossary translation stuff:  Leave the word inside \gls{word} alone (untranslated).  Also leave the word alone as the first argument of \newglossaryentry.  Just translate the name={translate me} and description={translate me} and add plural={plural form} if needed.
<godbyk> There are other keywords you can use there.  If you run 'texdoc glossaries' it will open a pdf that explains it all in more detail than you'll ever want to know.
<godbyk> If there are other language complications regarding that, make a note of it and I'll look into them.
<godbyk> (It might be better to email it to the list so I can check it later.)
 * donri will have to redo most translations now. :D
<ubuntujenkins> hello all
<Red_HamsterX> Hi.
<Red_HamsterX> I've created a new EtherPad for Quickshot and I'm populating it with ideas now.
<ubuntujenkins> I will do a new cd once the theme change is out and fix the missing packages bug
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, waiting for the theme fix is what I was going to suggest.
<Red_HamsterX> But I figured you reached the same conclusion, given you comment.
<Red_HamsterX> your*
<ubuntujenkins> bit of a silly package to miss but nothing major as it only effects one screenshot
<Red_HamsterX> And I could just go through all the languages and capture it if necessary.
<ubuntujenkins> true, the channel is getting more people again :-)
<Red_HamsterX> It only takes a minute or two.
<ubuntujenkins> have you got a link for the etherpad?
<titeuf_87> I can help out taking screenshots too if needed.
<Red_HamsterX> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/f0VIdaLXWZ
<Red_HamsterX> Give me a few minutes to finish writing stuff.
<titeuf_87> And isn't it possible to manually fix the button order with gconf instead of waiting till it gets changed?
<Red_HamsterX> Yes, it is.
<Red_HamsterX> But we've got a fix for that anyway.
<Red_HamsterX> hackarounds/controlbox-fix/
<ubuntujenkins> more and more people are taking screenshots
<Red_HamsterX> It's a small script that alters every screenshot with the correct box.
<godbyk-away> Hey, guys.  The php recompiling is going to get pushed off until after the weekend.
<godbyk-away> I'm going to my parents' for the weekend (apparently).
<Red_HamsterX> No rush, godbyk. Thanks. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Steal their chocolate.
<Red_HamsterX> Steal it all!
<godbyk-away> lol. will do!
<godbyk-away> how's quickshot holding up?
<ubuntujenkins> have fun
<Red_HamsterX> It seems to be working well.
<godbyk-away> are screenshots pouring in?
<godbyk-away> awesome
<Red_HamsterX> Although the es team didn't resize some stuff.
<ubuntujenkins> what are your thoughts on mirrors for the cd?
<Red_HamsterX> So the installation process was captured at the default window size.
<godbyk-away> ubuntujenkins: we may be able to mirror it on archive.org or something; I'm not sure.
<Red_HamsterX> (I can redo that if it's a problem)
<ubuntujenkins> how do you look at them with out downloading them?
<Red_HamsterX> I still think a CD torrent might be a good way to go.
<godbyk-away> I think having mirrors would be a good thing, but I'm not sure how to go about getting them.
<Red_HamsterX> You could pluck them from data/ (which is just a directory index) or use get_latest.php.
<ubuntujenkins> I had an e-mail from a guy in malaysia saying it was really slow for him
<godbyk-away> I don't know if a torrent would be much use in our case. I don't know if the CD is getting downloaded that frequently (simultaneously).
<Red_HamsterX> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/get_latest.php?language=en&name=03-rhythmbox-cd
<godbyk-away> I did look into it, though, and dreamhost disallows me running a tracker.
<godbyk-away> or a seeder.
<Red_HamsterX> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/get_latest.php?language=es&name=01-who-are-you
<ubuntujenkins> thats cool i wanted to look at the ones done so far
<Red_HamsterX> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/ for a summary
<trijntje> Hi all, just a short question regarding translations: Did the string freeze happen on 1st of april as planned? Because only the alpha-release can be downloaded from the LP page
<Red_HamsterX> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/ frot he files
<godbyk-away> trijntje: Yes, the string freeze happened.  The latest PDF is at http://ubuntu-manual.org/ubuntu-manual-beta.pdf
<godbyk-away> I'll update LP.
<ubuntujenkins> The string freeze did happen trijntje,
<donri> \textbf{This section is a work in progress.} ehum, string freeze?
<ubuntujenkins> beat me to it godbyk-android
<godbyk-away> donri: Lovely.  That's probably not the only time you'll find a horrendous bug. :)
<donri> Maybe the Swedish po isn't updated.
<trijntje> ok thats great godbyk-away and ubuntujenkins, ill tell the dutch translation team
<godbyk-away> trijntje: You can also use Quickshot to take all the necessary screenshots for the Swedish translations.
<godbyk-away> Let us know if you encounter any problems or have any questions along the way.
<ubuntujenkins> donri: that is in the credits
<ubuntujenkins> trijntje: quickshot info can be found here http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/quickshot-released-ppa-and-livecd.html
<trijntje> ubuntujenkins: ill look into that, thanks
<godbyk-away> I've updated the download on LP.
<ubuntujenkins> I like the quickshot wizard desgin idea it would be good to keep all the windows the same size like the ubuntu installer
<titeuf_87> Instead of working with multiple windows, using a gtk assistant would be cleaner.
<ubuntujenkins> what is gtk assistant?
<titeuf_87> It's basically what we faked with quickshot, hmm, other name for a wizard.
<titeuf_87> Can see a sample screenshot on http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkAssistant.html
<ubuntujenkins> so one window with the centre that changes?
<titeuf_87> Yes, and with next/previous buttons.
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i was thinking as well
<ubuntujenkins> I also like the idea that the user is asked to import a config file that lists stuff like the user name the server etc..
<titeuf_87> Could take that one step further too: present to the user a list of projects, a bit like Lernid shows a list of current events.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm done with adding stuff to the client for now, so feel free to tweak.
<ubuntujenkins> I was also thinking like lernid, I was unsure where the data came form for lernid
<titeuf_87> It's stored on a server somewhere.
<dutchie> it's on jonobacon.org in fact
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntu-uk.org needs a less-flaky connection.
<ubuntujenkins> how would we go about showing quickshot in peoples own language? but allow them to take screenshots in other languages? a drop down to select the quickshot program?
<Red_HamsterX> Good question...
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe have a $QUICKSHOT_LANG variable set in .profile?
<dutchie> if you have the translations done, (and you have a po dir), I'd expect quickly to take care of it
<ubuntujenkins> I think we need to find a better way of setting things than the .profile file. i am trying to work out where the Systems >> admin >> start up applications stuff is stored/
<Red_HamsterX> dutchie, the problem is that we don't want the translations to be used.
<Red_HamsterX> Someone in the US, taking screenshots of a Russian interface, probably wants instructions in English.
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, if I remember right, it's just a desktop file in ~/.config/autostart
<ubuntujenkins> it is titeuf_87 thats what we needed
<dutchie> Red_HamsterX: good point
<ubuntujenkins> now i can try autostarting quickshot again
<donri> Aww my Lucid VirtualBox isn't booting. :(
<ubuntujenkins> how can we tell if people haven't done the screenshots at the right resolution? obviously the desktop one will be wrong
<Red_HamsterX> We could either provide dimensions in the dictionary or just leave that to the review process.
<Red_HamsterX> (Which will become a middle-of-the-project process)
<Red_HamsterX> (Reviews will be doable right in a browser)
<ubuntujenkins> how can we add them to bzr using the browser?
<Red_HamsterX> We'd sever the bzr dependence on Quickshot's end.
<Red_HamsterX> When a file is accepted, it'd be tagged as such.
<Red_HamsterX> And then included in any generated archives.
<ubuntujenkins> they next version is going to be so cool
<Red_HamsterX> An admin would be able to view each collected screenshot for a languaghe and click an 'accept' or 'reject' button.
<Red_HamsterX> If it's rejected, all clients will be told to grab it again.
<Red_HamsterX> We could warn users before they upload them, though.
<Red_HamsterX> "This screenshot is substantially smaller than the reference. It is possible that you have captured the wrong window."
<Red_HamsterX> Something like that.
<ubuntujenkins> thats a good idea
<Red_HamsterX> Okay, I'm done with adding ideas for now.
<ubuntujenkins> looking very good
<ubuntujenkins> if we are decoupling ubuntu specific stuff does that mean we can't use glade?
<Red_HamsterX> Glade isn't Ubuntu-specific.
<Red_HamsterX> I mean things like assuming environment variables or paths that are only guaranteed to exist in Ubuntu.
<popey> 19:53:31 < Red_HamsterX> ubuntu-uk.org needs a less-flaky connection.
<popey> wassup?
<ubuntujenkins> i thought as it used the ubuntu template
<Red_HamsterX> I kets getting disconnected from the EtherPad, popey. :(
<popey> poke Daviey, it's on one of his VPSs, not on the main ubuntu-uk box
 * Red_HamsterX changes 'Ubuntu-specific' to 'Project-specific'.
<Red_HamsterX> That's probably what I was thinking last night.
<Red_HamsterX> And then it somehow got warped.
<Red_HamsterX> I'm sure we'll refactor stuff as we encounterit over the next few months, until everything is cleanly separated.
<Red_HamsterX> Ideally, I should be able to take the Quickshot core, change a few values, and run it on a Gentoo box.
<ubuntujenkins> I understand what you mean now
<Red_HamsterX> (But if we can't decouple it to that extent, then that's fine, too)
<Daviey> Red_HamsterX: did you get my /msg ?
<Daviey> ahh
<Ddorda> ermm.. can I have help translating the manual?
<dutchie> sure, ask your question
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: let me find the link
<ubuntujenkins> sure go ahead
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: I know where to translate. but I have a problem
<daker> Hi @all
<dutchie> !ask | Ddorda
<ubuntujenkins> sorry Ddorda miss read it, feel to ask
<manualbot> Ddorda: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<Ddorda> how am I suppose to translate items like this one: \newglossaryentry{applet}{name={applet}, description={An applet is a small program that runs in a \gls{panel}. Applets provide useful functions such as starting a program, viewing the time, or accessing the main menu.}}
<daker> i have something for you ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: these are the bits to translate any thing in the {} applet, applet ,An applet is a small program that runs in a, panel, Applets provide useful functions such as starting a program, viewing the time, or accessing the main menu.
<ubuntujenkins> is is shiny daker ?
<ubuntujenkins> ignore the commas Ddorda i just used them to separate the parts
<daker> i was working on new api for quickshot based on the old one
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: okay. another thing: items with "en" for images and stuff - to change too?
<dutchie> 19:06:31 < godbyk> For the glossary translation stuff:  Leave the word inside \gls{word} alone (untranslated).  Also leave the word alone as the first  argument of \newglossaryentry.  Just translate the name={translate me} and description={translate me} and add plural={plural form} if  needed.
<dutchie> Ddorda: ^^
<ubuntujenkins> no leave the image stuff as it is Ddorda all that gets changed automatically in the build
<ubuntujenkins> nice daker we will have a look.
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: okay. thanks.
<ubuntujenkins> daker: if you like you can send it to the whole team at quickshotdevs@lists.launchpad.net
<Ddorda> Ive published Ubuntu-Manual in our LoCo - hopefully to finish the translation & the image shooting in 3 weeks :P
<daker> ubuntujenkins, oki
<ubuntujenkins> nice what language Ddorda, out of interest?
<Ddorda> Hebrew
<ubuntujenkins> we are having a coding break apart from bugs to get the next design more planed and organised.
<Ddorda> and not interest really, Im just the new PoC, so I do my job :P
<Ddorda> and no*
<godbyk-android> dutchie: could you compile the latex-handout.pdf in Help/godbyk/latex-handout/ and copy it over to website/daker/ so we can point translators to it on the website?
<dutchie> will do
<ubuntujenkins> nice Ddorda I look forward to seeing the screenshots
<godbyk-android> Thanks! I think it's chapter 3 that shows the translations stuff but could be wrong.
<godbyk-android> I'll be in front of a computer again in a couple hours.
 * dutchie will be away all day tomorrow
<dutchie> going down to london to watch the boat race
 * ubuntujenkins 33 people in the channel its hotting up in here :-)
<ubuntujenkins> I have approved you daker
<daker> thanks
 * daker doesn't like bzr conflicts
<daker> godbyk-away, where is the website daker-test.moved or daker-test ?
<daker> ubuntujenkins, i will push my api version in a few hours
<ubuntujenkins> daker: please pop it in a folder seperate from the main work at the moment please
<daker> sure
<daker> how can i force bzr to push a folder ?
<ubuntujenkins> have you done bzr add?
<daker> yes
<ubuntujenkins> then it should go. what error are you getting?
<daker> i made a mistake when i edit all of things on website without pulling ubuntujenkins
<daker> so i bzr gives me a lot of conflicts
<daker> i backup my work and i got a new branch
<ubuntujenkins> bzr uncommit is useful in fixing these problems
<daker> when i set up my work in the branch bzr didn't know that i made changes
 * daker in troubles
<daker> $ bzr commit --unchange doesn't give anything :s
<daker> ubuntujenkins, could you pls confirm this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/+bug/553683
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 553683 in ubuntu-manual-website "wrong chapter names" [Undecided,New]
 * daker doesn' know how to fix his problem with bzr f***
<ubuntujenkins> daker: just looking at the bug now
<daker> just check if the chapters are correct or not
<ubuntujenkins> new chapters are:
<ubuntujenkins> working with ubuntu
<ubuntujenkins> Learning more
<ubuntujenkins> I think system maintenance  >> Software management
<ubuntujenkins> ignore working with ubuntu
<ubuntujenkins> preferencs and hardware >> Hardware
<daker> kk
<daker> be back
<daker> godbyk-android, could pls point ubuntu-manual.org => daker-countdown
<godbyk-android> Daker: When I get to a computer again, sure.
<daker> kk
<daker> ubuntujenkins, !!!
<godbyk-android> What's new?
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<daker> you will see godbyk-android
<daker> ubuntujenkins, so new chapters are :
<daker> working with ubuntu
<daker> Learning more
<daker> Software management
<daker> Hardware
<daker> ?
<ubuntujenkins> installation
<ubuntujenkins> the ubuntu desktop
<ubuntujenkins> The command line
<ubuntujenkins> Security
<ubuntujenkins> Troubleshooting
<dutchie> godbyk-android: I can't compile latex-handout.tex
<ubuntujenkins> thats all of them
<daker> ubuntujenkins, thanks
<dutchie> l.19 \RequireXeTeX % XeTeX is required now
<dutchie> $ xetex
<dutchie> This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.9995.2 (TeX Live 2009)
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: i have just made it
<dutchie> oh, ok
<dutchie> you can do the thing godbyk-android wanted tehn
<ubuntujenkins> yep will do
<dutchie> 21:20 #ubuntu-manual: < godbyk-android> dutchie: could you compile the latex-handout.pdf in Help/godbyk/latex-handout/ and copy it over to website/daker/ so  we can point translators to it on the website?
<ubuntujenkins> yep adding it now
<godbyk-android> xelatex, actually.
<daker> dutchie, you should copy it in website/daker-countdown
<dutchie> godbyk-android: I've still got it installed
<ubuntujenkins> why does bzr add not work?
<daker> ubuntujenkins, speaking to me ?
<ubuntujenkins> no it was a genreal channel question. I have solved it by doing bzr add <file>
<daker> or try this  bzr commit --unchange
<daker> ubuntujenkins, pls check if it's correct http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved
<ubuntujenkins> thats fine daker
<daker> thanks
<godbyk> Okay, I'm on my laptop now.  Much nicer than typing on my phone.
<daker> hh
<godbyk> daker, you said you wanted ubuntu-manual.org to point to what?
<daker> to /website/daker-countdown
<godbyk> daker, can you copy the ubuntu-manual-* PDFs over to your new countdown site first? (don't forget the -beta and -draft symlinks)
<daker> kk
<godbyk> do you want any of the .moved sites? or can I kill those?
<godbyk> (I don't know that they're in the repository, but they didn't get deleted like they should've been, so I have to do it manually.)
<daker> no i don't want any one
<godbyk> okay.
<daker> should i pull ?
<daker> before i commit
<godbyk> sure.
<godbyk> always a good idea.
<godbyk> I haven't pushed anything though
<daker> ubuntujenkins, just pushed something
<ubuntujenkins> i did indeed
<daker> so next time you should put it /website/daker-countdown
<godbyk> anyone know how I should resolve the following:
<godbyk>   Conflict: can't delete website/daker-test.moved because it is not empty.  Not deleting.
<godbyk>   Conflict adding file website/daker-test.  Moved existing file to website/daker-test.moved.
<godbyk>   Conflict adding file website/daker-test.moved.  Moved existing file to website/daker-test.moved.moved.
<daker> i'll try to delete it, one minute
<godbyk> also, daker, if you want to move the site over to your site repository, I'm okay with that.
<daker> to lp:ubuntu-manual-website ?
<ubuntujenkins> sorry daker i had looked away from irc
<godbyk> daker: right
<ubuntujenkins> I will put it there next time
<daker> oki
<daker> no problem :)
<ubuntujenkins> i am off night all
<daker> godbyk, ignored website/daker-countdown/latex-handout.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-beta.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r540.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r554.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r561.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r585.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r607.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r643.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r674.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r729.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/.htaccess~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/core.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/css/style.css~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/includes/config.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/includes/functions.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/includes/router.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/includes/structure.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/pages/contributors.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/pages/countdown.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-test/pages/getinvolved.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-test/includes/languages/ubu_man_website_translations.pot~
<godbyk> daker: ?
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual$ bzr add -v
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/latex-handout.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-beta.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r540.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r554.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r561.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r585.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r607.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r643.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r674.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft-r729.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/ubuntu-manual-draft.pdf matching "*.pdf"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/.htaccess~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/core.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/css/style.css~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/includes/config.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/includes/functions.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/includes/router.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/includes/structure.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/pages/contributors.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-countdown/pages/countdown.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-test/pages/getinvolved.php~ matching "*~"
<daker> ignored website/daker-test/includes/languages/ubu_man_website_translations.pot~ matching "*~"
<daker> bzr dont want to add this files :s
<godbyk> okay, I'll add them. just a moment.
<daker> godbyk, what's up?
<godbyk> daker: I'll switch it to your new site in just a sec.
<godbyk> pushing now.
<godbyk> slowly.
<godbyk> (my parents' internet is quite slow)
<godbyk> and the PDFs are somewhat large.
<godbyk> and there are eight of 'em.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-03
<daker> 4Mo*8 = 32Mo
<daker> > 40 Mo
<godbyk> pulling now
<epkugelmass> godbyk, are you ready to announce the beta release on launchpad?
<godbyk> epkugelmass: Sure. Where do we need to announce it?
<godbyk> (There are so many places to update things, I'm sure I've missed some.)
<epkugelmass> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<epkugelmass> right-hand bar
<epkugelmass> scroll down to the bottom of the announcements box
<epkugelmass> i'm going to change the status of all of the bugs
<godbyk> I see it now. Yeah, I'll make an announcement.
<epkugelmass> great! thanks
<epkugelmass> i just changed all of the bugs statuses and removed beta-release as a target-able milestone
<donri> Why does everything in the glossary list end in two dots?
<daker> back
<daker> godbyk, ?
<donri> You should totally rename the quickshot user at least for the next release. It's ugly to see "quickshot" in half the shots.
<godbyk> daker: I've linked to the new site.
<donri> Would be more sensible to invent some fake user.
<godbyk> daker: what's different?
<godbyk> donri: I agree.  I think we're going to have a fake user to use throughout the manual along with fake content in the mailbox, etc.
<daker> http://ubuntu-manual.org/ this is the old one
<donri> We should talk to the Evince developers about possibilities of making images look better resized.
<donri> Eye of GNOME does it nicely, so the code should be there in GNOME.
<daker> donri, +1
<godbyk> daker: ah, sorry. try it again now.
<godbyk> (must've mistyped something before.)
<donri> godbyk, You're the typography guy? Did you see: <donri> Why does everything in the glossary list end in two dots?
<godbyk> donri: We patched evince to fix that problem and the patched version will be in lucid. (It's available in the beta of lucid right now.)
<donri> Oh, cool!
<donri> Did you submit upstream?
<godbyk> donri: yep, that's me.  it's on my list of things to fix.
<donri> Aye.
<godbyk> the glossary style (which is just the default) adds its own period and we've typed one manually.
<donri> Heh.
<godbyk> I'm going to change the style to fix that.
<donri> You guys are so productive. I don't know how you do it.
<donri> But I have ADHD+OCD, ultimate productivity killers. xD
<godbyk> donri: we pulled the patch from upstream.  it's in the latest version of evince.
<donri> Ah.
<godbyk> but lucid didn't have the latest version.
<godbyk> so we had to backport the bits that we needed to fix the bug.
<donri> I wonder if there's a Karmic PPA for that.
<godbyk> donri: not that I'm aware of.
<godbyk> I think your best bet is to wait for lucid.  afaik, it's not going to be backported to karmic.
<daker> godbyk, !!!
<daker> Using saved push location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker> Unable to obtain lock lp-67241552:///~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/.bzr/branch/lock
<daker> held by adnane002@bazaar.launchpad.net on host crowberry [process #23795]
<daker> locked 4 minutes, 19 seconds ago
<daker> Will continue to try until 00:39:19, unless you press Ctrl-C.
<daker> See "bzr help break-lock" for more.
<daker> bzr: ERROR: Could not acquire lock "(remote lock)":
<godbyk> daker: as long as you're not running bzr already, run 'bzr break-lock' and tell it to break the lock.
<godbyk> don't forget to pull first to get the updates to the website I made.
<godbyk> (You'll want to remove those PDFs that you copied to the countdown site)
<daker> done but it gives the same error
<godbyk> bzr break-lock bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual$ bzr break-lock bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<daker> Break lock bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/.bzr/branch/lock
<daker> held by adnane002@bazaar.launchpad.net on host crowberry [process #23795]
<daker> locked 1 hour, 51 minutes in the future? [y/n]:
<daker> yes | no ?
<godbyk> yes
<daker> oki that's work
<daker> the website doesn't sync ?
<godbyk> it should
<godbyk> every 10 minutes
<daker> i mean this http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<godbyk> right. that should sync every 10 minutes to whatever is in bzr.
<godbyk> I haven't seen any messages that you've pushed something yet.
<godbyk> Did you push something new?
<daker>  something new? where ? daker folder or daker-countdown ?
<godbyk> daker-countdown.
<godbyk> ubuntu-manual.org points to daker-countdown
<godbyk> test.ubuntu-manual.org points to daker-test
<daker> but it doesn' show the content of daker-down it shows the content of daker folder :)
<daker> t*
<godbyk> refresh your browser? did your browser cache the old site?
<daker> no
<daker> i am sure this is the content of "daker" folder
<godbyk> wtf
<godbyk> I swear I've symlinked it twice now and it keeps getting undone somehow.
<godbyk> one moment
<daker> :)
<daker> take your time
<godbyk> daker: okay, try it now.
<daker> right
<godbyk> we'll see if it sticks this time. :-)
<daker> there a problem in translation
<daker> is
<daker> the translation of the title "Getting started with Ubuntu 9.10" should be the same in all strings of each translation
<godbyk> daker: I'm not following. Can you rephrase your question?
<daker> the title "Getting started with Ubuntu 9.10" should be the same in all translated strings
<godbyk> daker: Can you give me an example?
<daker> one minute
<godbyk> The string "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04" will be translated into each language.
<daker> understanding frensh language ?
<godbyk> not really, but I can probably understand enough to get by for a single translation. :)
<daker> so someone has translated "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04" = "DÃ©buter sous Ubuntu 10.04"
<daker> in all the strings we have to find "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04" to translated into "DÃ©buter sous Ubuntu 10.04"
<daker> not to another string
<daker> understand ?
<godbyk> are there are other translations being offered for "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04"?
<daker> in the website
<daker> sorry
<daker> for the french translations no "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04" = "DÃ©buter sous Ubuntu 10.04" in all the strings
<godbyk> I don't understand where the problem is.
<daker> i repeat
<daker> i can't find an example so forgot about it :)
<godbyk> Heh.. Okay.
<titeuf_87> What daker means I think is that some translations can have the title "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04" translated in different ways instead of just having one fixed translation for it that is used in the whole manual.
<daker> titeuf_87, YESSSSSSSSSSSS
<godbyk> Ah, I see.
<daker> in the manual there is only one string with Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04
<daker> but in the website there is about 10 or more
<daker> godbyk, am i right ?
<godbyk> For some languages, the translation may vary slightly to account for different forms (syntax, declensions, etc.)
<godbyk> In the manual, Getting Started with Ubuntu appears five times.
<godbyk> I haven't looked at the translations to check for consistency, though.
<daker> godbyk, 6 times
<daker> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+pots/ubuntu-manual/en_GB/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=Getting+Started+with+Ubuntu
<godbyk> daker: yes, but one of those isn't the title of the manual.
<daker> yes
<daker> GREAAAT http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/
<daker> night all
<vish> wolter: !
<vish> hi ;)
<wolter> hey vish, what up?
<vish> wolter: could you also mention the "type" of the mime you requested in humanity?
<wolter> as in application/x- blah blah/
<wolter> ?
<vish> yeah
<wolter> ok
<vish> wolter: i dont have all those filetypes you requested , so when i do make those icons ,it would be easier to just use the right mime names :)
<wolter> good :)
<wolter> should I remove the patterns?
<vish> patterns?
<wolter> yeah, like TODO*, *.patch, LICENSE
<vish> nah , just mention the type you see in the properties for those icons
<vish> not sure if all are themable though , will have to check
<wolter> well, I've had themes with themes for them
<wolter> for example, INSTALL has a nice icon
<wolter> I love that one
<wolter> ah, removed file patterns anyway
<wolter> well, glad I could help
<vish> thanks..
<wolter> no problem
<trijntje> Hi all, how should and Ã© be inserted when translating the manual? just as Ã©  or as \'e?
<artnay> should I file bugs about non-translatable strings on website-translation?
<Daker> @all i need feedback http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/ pls
<manualbot> Daker: Error: "all" is not a valid command.
<trijntje> Hi all, how should and Ã© be inserted when translating the manual? just as Ã©  or as \'e?
<ubuntujenkins> hello team how are we?
<daker> ubuntujenkins, !!
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<daker> you are using this page
<daker> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/getquickshot
<daker> in quickshot but it does not exist
<ubuntujenkins> dam ben re did the wiki I will fill in the wiki page now, thanks for that
<daker> kk
<ubuntujenkins> fixed it daker
<daker> good
<daker> ubuntujenkins, there is a bug here http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/get_files.php?language=en
<ubuntujenkins> daker: we are aware of that we are waiting for kevin do recompile php. How do i view your api suggestion?
<daker> just install lamp server and enable the url_rewriting
<daker> To Call the "upload" page :
<daker> **********************************************************
<daker> 	$_POST['name']: The name of the screencap.
<daker> 	$_POST['language']: The language to be queried.
<daker> 	$_FILE['file']: The file to be uploaded.
<daker> **********************************************************
<daker> http://screenshot.ubuntu-manual.org/api/upload
<daker> To Get reference :
<daker> http://screenshot.ubuntu-manual.org/api/reference/name_of_screenshot
<daker> To Get the last screenshot :
<daker> http://screenshot.ubuntu-manual.org/api/last/Code_Lang/name_of_screenshot
<daker> To Get the last zip archive :
<daker> http://screenshot.ubuntu-manual.org/api/download/Code_Lang
<daker> To Get the status :
<daker> http://screenshot.ubuntu-manual.org/api/status/Code_Lang
<daker> To Get the details :
<daker> http://screenshot.ubuntu-manual.org/api/details/name_of_screenshot
<daker> the link will be like that
<daker> links
<ubuntujenkins> i saw the read me just don't have a lamp
<ubuntujenkins> that wasn't in it
<daker> i can host it for you to see
<daker> one minutes
<ubuntujenkins> that would be good thanks
<trijntje> Repost: how should an Ã© be inserted when translating the manual in LP? just as Ã© or as \'e?
<ubuntujenkins> trijntje: i THINK its \'{e} but we should check with godbyk
<trijntje> thanks ubuntujenkins, ill ask godbyk when he gets back
 * daker : f*** 3G is very bad
<daker> ubuntujenkins, http://filaya.com/api/
<daker> http://filaya.com/api/api/reference/01-first-slide
<ubuntujenkins> it looks good daker, I don't know if we would keep the manual branding as we are aiming to cater for other projects as well
<daker> o.O don't worry
<ubuntujenkins> We haven't decided anything yet, we are in a month of plaining at the moment
<daker> kk
<daker> and why not a website quickshot.org
<ubuntujenkins> that would be an idea, i will add that to the list
<ubuntujenkins> two languages have completed the screenshots
<daker> ohh
<ubuntujenkins> 5 are over half way
<daker> kk
<daker_> ubuntujenkins, did you know that http://www.mavizen.com/ ?
<daker> http://www.mavizen.com/Bikes_and_Kits/TTX02.html
<ubuntujenkins> daker: and electric super bike thats cool
<daker> tuns under linux
<ubuntujenkins> it runs linux that is even cooler
<daker> awesome
<ubuntujenkins> I am off to eat food, see you al later
<ubuntujenkins> hello manual team
<daker> back
<ubuntujenkins> lots of lovely food inside me know
<ubuntujenkins> *now
<daker> what's the font's name of the ubuntu's logo ?
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know I am afraid, i know they hadn't completed it they were looking for help producing the other letters
<godbyk> trijntje and ubuntujenkins: insert it as Ã©.  Use standard Unicode characters in the translations.
<ubuntujenkins> cool thanks godbyk,
<ubuntujenkins> wow rhythambox deals with itunes links go ubuntu one music store
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: no way! seriously? that's so awesome!
<ubuntujenkins> I was shouting at the silly people using itunes then, i was so excited. it is awesome!
<godbyk> daker: can we adjust the website so that clicking on the logo/big header will take me to the home page?
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> I have it when I'm browsing the web, click a link, and firefox/chrome says is has no idea how to handle itms:// protocol urls.
<godbyk> also, making an itms:// protocol is just a lame move anyway. completely unnecessary.
<daker> godbyk, sure
<godbyk> daker: great! thanks.
 * ubuntujenkins quickshot appears to be holding up well and screenshots are being done
<godbyk> quickshot is awesome.
<godbyk> I still need to burn the live cd and play with it sometime.
<godbyk> it'd take forever to download it at my parents' house, though.
<daker> :D godbyk
<ubuntujenkins> glad you like it godbyk, the next version is going to be much better
<godbyk> I know! The next version of quickshot will be more awesome. The next version of the manual will be more awesome, too.
<godbyk> I think of this initial run-through as kind of a dry run.
<godbyk> Just to show that what we're attempting is possible.
<ubuntujenkins> When was it not possible, we could do with a few more people
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: when you guys get to the point of redesigning quickshot, let me know. I'd like to give a hand there.
<godbyk> I don't think it's ever been impossible.. this just helps assuage some doubts cast by others.
<ubuntujenkins> no problem we have an ideas pad here http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/f0VIdaLXWZ  . That doubt still exists with some people
<trijntje> godbyk: thans for the awnser
<godbyk> trijntje: no problem.
<Red_HamsterX> Thanks for taking care of those Quickshot things, daker. :)
<Red_HamsterX> I'll be forking the server into its own branch later, though, so I may need to revisit them.
<Red_HamsterX> You might want to hold off on applying more changes unless you're super-bored.
<godbyk> daker: if you are super-bored, I can work with you on the download stuff for the ubuntu manual site now.
<Red_HamsterX> One of the things related to the gradients is that I also want to indicate the percentage of accepted images.
<Red_HamsterX> Not just the uploaded coverage.
<Red_HamsterX> (We have no way of calculating that yet)
<daker> Red_HamsterX, oh
<daker> godbyk, the download stuff is already done
<Red_HamsterX> We're still building the Quickshot wishlists. Work-in-progress.
<godbyk> daker: I'd like to modify some things and add some features.
<Red_HamsterX> But your changes will be preserved. :)
<daker> Red_HamsterX, oki
<daker> godbyk, like what ?
<godbyk> daker: keep a count of how many times each file has been downloaded.
<godbyk> daker: modify the url style slightly
<Red_HamsterX> (I'm actually a pretty good web developer. I'm just a terrible designer)
<daker> Red_HamsterX, i saw that
<daker> godbyk, google analitycs can do it
<Red_HamsterX> Quickshot's an exception. =P
<godbyk> daker: not nearly as well as I'd like. and I don't want to rely on analytics for a simple count.
<Red_HamsterX> I spent, like, two hours on the actual interface stuff.
<daker> so for that i think we need mysql godbyk ?
<godbyk> daker: probably. I can set up a mysql db for us easily.
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX, does the button fix script work yet, not that we have any screenshots to do in a rush
<Red_HamsterX> It does. We just need to put proper images into reference/.
<Red_HamsterX> So we need real samples to clip.
<daker> Red_HamsterX, have you seen that http://filaya.com/api/
<daker> http://filaya.com/api/api/reference/01-first-slide
<ubuntujenkins> cool Red_HamsterX when we have the samples we will have to give it ago
<Red_HamsterX> The reference the Quickshot server is providing is http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/get_reference.php?name=01-first-slide
<Red_HamsterX> I don't think users will be confused.
<ubuntujenkins> nice you updated the reference
<ubuntujenkins> is the original in out branch?
<Red_HamsterX> It's been overwritten with that.
<ubuntujenkins> nice i can add it to the manual
<Red_HamsterX> I replaced everything as I saw differences.
<ubuntujenkins> shall we create a quickshot sever project on launchpad?
<Red_HamsterX> I'm not sure how Bazaar's concept of branches work.
<Red_HamsterX> If it can be a child of the Quickshot project (which should split into 'client' and 'server'), that would be ideal.
 * Red_HamsterX is finishing up a PyWeek submission and is therefore a bit distracted.
<ubuntujenkins> kk i will explain when you are not busy
<godbyk> I'll be back in a bit. I'm going to head to my brother's house for a few minutes.
<daker> Red_HamsterX, i am able to upload files like into the screenshots server
<daker> i upload this http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/launchpad-export.tar.gz@@1270320606.png
<Red_HamsterX> How did you do that?
<Red_HamsterX> I wouldn't be surprised if I forgot to check for something, since it was built to be a very trusting system (tight deadline), but I don't see how that'll actually break anything.
<daker> create a html file
<daker> <form method="post" action="http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/upload.php" enctype="multipart/form-data">
<daker> 	<input type="text" name="name" id="name" value="" maxlength="64" size="30" />  <br />
<daker> 	<input type="text" name="lang" id="lang" value="" maxlength="64" size="30" />  <br />
<daker> 	<input type="file" name="file" size="30" /> <br />
<daker> 	<input type="submit" value="Envoyer" class="btn"/>
<daker> </form>
<daker> i can show you your mistakes :D
<Red_HamsterX> I'm aware of that one. =P
<Red_HamsterX> I plan to rebuild the entire system from scratch, to make sure it's done right next time.
<Red_HamsterX> This one was just so we could actually get the manual built.
<Red_HamsterX> It's abuse-tolerant, not abuse-proof.
<daker> Red_HamsterX, try just with this
<daker> <form method="post" action="http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/upload.php" enctype="multipart/form-data">
<daker> 	
<daker> 	<input type="file" name="file" size="30" /> <br />
<daker> 	<input type="submit" value="Envoyer" class="btn"/>
<daker> </form>
<daker> and the file will be uploaded
<Red_HamsterX> Fine. I'll fix it now.
<daker> Red_HamsterX, have a look at my version based on your's
<Red_HamsterX> Pushed.
<daker> yes
<Red_HamsterX> I'm under a super-tight deadline right now... I'd really rather not, unless it's a major security issue.
<Red_HamsterX> I emant I pushed a fix for that exploit.
<Red_HamsterX> I was using && instead of || for a validation check.
<daker> yes
<daker> Red_HamsterX, i can help to rebuild the sever from scratch, if you want
<Red_HamsterX> I'd like to ask you to help test it for exploits, and possibly to design all of the user-visible features.
<Red_HamsterX> But I won't be ready to start working on it for at leasta  week, and I'll need to reconsider how data is stored and managed before beginning.
<Red_HamsterX> Based on what we've found with regards tot he client's needs.
<daker> Red_HamsterX, do some etherpad pls
<ubuntujenkins> daker, we will be waiting till about mid april before we start on the next release
<daker> oki
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah. Until then, we're just going to add ideas to the bad, remove things that don't fit, and rearrange/reprioritize what we really want to see.
<Red_HamsterX> pad*
<Red_HamsterX> Feel free to add your ideas.
<ubuntujenkins> I am off now see everyone tomorrow
<daker> see you
<Red_HamsterX> Bye, ubuntujenkins~
<daker> Red_HamsterX, i have an idea
<daker> to authenticate users, then have to request a key from the server by providing there emails
<daker> they*
<daker> and they should give it to quickshot in the first step, and quickshot have to request the sever if the key is valid or not
<daker> a key is valid for a week for example, when it expire, the user have to request another key
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<Red_HamsterX> daker, add it to the pad.
<Red_HamsterX> It seems a little complicated, but it might lead to something pretty cool.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: I set up quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org for you guys.
<godbyk> If you have files you want me to point it at, or a different site or something, let me know.
<Red_HamsterX> We've got nothing for now, but we'll let you know.
<Red_HamsterX> Thanks, godbyk. :)
<godbyk> No problem. :)
<godbyk> I've got lucid running on my laptop here, so I'm going to try running quickshot from the ppa.
<godbyk> I'm going to play with quickshot for a bit, so I may be in and out.
<godbyk> Feel free to ping godbyk-android  if you need anything and godbyk isn't here.
<daker> kk
<godbyk> quickshot crashed on me when it tried to download the list of screenshots.
<godbyk> I tried to submit a bug report via apport, but that failed because it didn't like python2.6 or something.
<godbyk> (it said the python2.6 and python2.6-minimal packages were obsolete or somesuch.)
<godbyk> upgrading python2.6 et al. now.
<godbyk> okay, python updated.  trying again.
<godbyk> okay, that was fun.
<godbyk> so the first crash was because my laptop wasn't connected to the network.
<godbyk> probably shouldn't crash -- it should give an error message instead.
<godbyk> after fixing that, I installed the Latin language packs.  (I figured I can't screw much up there!)
<godbyk> quickshot crashed and didn't present a gui error message when I tried to run it under latin.
<Red_HamsterX> Error-reporting was highly under-developed. :(
<Red_HamsterX> I thought I added a network catch, though...
<Red_HamsterX> It's point 3 on the todo list.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: no worries. I just filed some bug reports for them.
<godbyk> Also, apport failed with an error saying that quickshot wasn't an official ubuntu program or somesuch.
<godbyk> Can we set it up to work with quickshot?
<godbyk> or do we have to be official or somesuch?
<Red_HamsterX> I don't know. ubuntujenkins is more familiar with that area than I am.
<godbyk> gotcha.
<godbyk> oh, i should point out that this has all been with quickshot from the -released repository.
<Red_HamsterX> I don't believe anything has changed in the new branches/paths.
<Red_HamsterX> But I've been uninvolved over the past two days.
<Red_HamsterX> (PyWeek)
<godbyk> understood.
<Red_HamsterX> Just keep logging things. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Every bug will get addressed.
<godbyk> I'm mostly looking at it all from the user's perspective (being one of those usability/design guys).
<godbyk> I'm not expecting instant action or anything.  Just taking notes for things to consider in our next version.
<Red_HamsterX> Which is exactly what we need. :)
<Red_HamsterX> I'm going to insist that error reporting be wrapped around every last thing in 1.0.
<Red_HamsterX> Debug printouts, functions to make logging and presenting errors easy...
<Red_HamsterX> I don't want anything to go unnoticed by developers or untracable by the clueful end user.
<Red_HamsterX> +be
<godbyk> agreed.
<titeuf_87> When the gui is also more separated it'll be easier to add in error reporting.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah.
<godbyk> I'll look into the apport thing, too.
<Red_HamsterX> That was a major halting point for this realease.
<godbyk> since it's popping  up and telling me that quickshot crashed and offers to report a problem, it seems like it should be easy to allow for that.
<Red_HamsterX> The need to get it working resulted in a collaboratively edited monolithic design.
<godbyk> yeah, everything to do with both quickshot and the manual has been a bit slapdash so far.
<Red_HamsterX> And it's really hard to wrap one of those.
<godbyk> but we'll be fixing that, now that we have a better idea of what we're doing. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Yep.
<Red_HamsterX> We've learned a lot, overcome the hardest challenges, and know more about how to work otgether.
<godbyk> I think a TON of our stuff (quickshot and manual both) will be streamlined by 10.10.
<Red_HamsterX> Thanks, titeuf_87. :)
<titeuf_87> The aport thing wasn't this something we got for free from using quickly?
<godbyk> I don't know.
<Red_HamsterX> I think so.
<godbyk> apport gave me an error msg. I'm going to go back in and see what the msg was and google it.
<godbyk> see if I can figure out how to make it all work.
<Red_HamsterX> But godbyk reported that Ubuntu is rejecting it because Quickshot isn't official. We'll need to look into that.
<godbyk> if we can get those bug reports, that'd be quite helpful.
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe we just need to link our dev branch to something.
<godbyk> that could be.
<godbyk> I'll try it again and note the exact wording of the msg and see what we can figure out.
<godbyk> be back in a moment.
<godbyk> (going to give esperanto a shot this time. ;-))
<titeuf_87> I find nothing back of apport in the source code.
<askhl> Hi.  Looking at the translatable strings: "TRANSLATORS: do not translate this type: Plain text" <-- What does this comment mean?  Which "type" does it refer to?  What does the isolated statement "Plain text" mean?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, I see why my catch didn't work for your crash, godbyk.
<askhl> Wait, I see it.  They all say "type: plain text", it's just concatenated in this case, which looks rather confusing
<godbyk> The apport error is:
<godbyk> The program cannot be reported:
<godbyk> This is not a genuine Ubuntu package
<godbyk> I have to run.  Going to my grandma's house for dinner. I'll be back in a few hours.
<titeuf_87> Thanks, and take care godbyk
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-04
<IlyaHaykinson_> OK... nifty. Andchat is nice.
<wolter> Hi people
<wolter> Who uses rhythmbox here?
<Ddorda> I saw in a blog that there supposed to be 2500 screenshots to do, but for now I saw only 50. when will we have more?
<godbyk-android> Ddorda:  50 per language x 50 languages
<Ddorda> godbyk-android: oh! I see :D
<godbyk-android> A lot leas work that way! :-)
<Ddorda> godbyk-android: well, we're about to finish the hebrew screenshoting, and than will hope to finish translating as soon as possible
<godbyk-android> Ddorda:  excellent! Let me know if you have any questions or problems.
<Ddorda> godbyk-android: for now we have no problems, you made it quite simple
<Ddorda> godbyk-android: but - must say the translations could be even more simple IMHO
<godbyk-android> How can we make the translations easier for you?
<Ddorda> godbyk-android: for everyone :P just making the string to have text only, and not latex context
<godbyk> Ddorda: I don't know how we could know where to reapply the latex formatting after we get the translated string back.
<godbyk> for instance, if you translate a sentence: "Ubuntu is \emph{awesome}!", how do we know which if the words in your translation should have \emph applied?
<Ddorda> godbyk: you've got a point
<Ddorda> okay okay, Im stepping back :P
<godbyk> If you have any ideas on that, I'm happy to explore them.  We're trying to make everything as easy as possible (but no easier! ;-)).
<godbyk> There are some latex bits that end up in the translations that don't need to be there.  (commands like \frontcover).  I'm working on finding a way to hide those.
<godbyk> our translation tool is a bit quirky and I haven't figured out how to get it to ignore everything yet.
<godbyk> And with that, I'm off to bed!
<godbyk> See ya later, Ddorda.
<Ddorda> godbyk: gnight
<Ddorda> I can translate the "do not translate" strings in with the original text? (so Ill know how many left)
<Ddorda> I see in other languages that this exactly what they did.
<Ddorda> another question: is there RTL support in this Manual? (for languages like Hebrew, Arabic & Persian)
<thorwil> Ddorda: yes, there's at least supposed to be RTL support, but i have no clue regarding the specifics
<ubuntujenkins> hello every one
<daker> hello
<daker> seems that everybody is sleeping right now
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<daker> hi
<Ddorda> who can approve imported translations here?
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda, I don't know but dutchie might be able to help
<Ddorda> dutchie: ^
<ubuntujenkins> hello titeuf_87 have you looked at Bug #554861 I was wondering what caused it as la is one of the languages we want screenshots in according to screenshots.ubuntu-manaul.org
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554861
<dutchie> Ddorda: I'm just looking
<titeuf_87> Let me take a look.
<Ddorda> dutchie: thanks a lot
<titeuf_87> What language is la?
<ubuntujenkins> Latin titeuf_87
<titeuf_87> Ok, installing that language now, thanks!
<dutchie> massively useful language ;)
<daker> godbyk, !!!
<daker> godbyk-android, godbyk-away , !!!
<vish> godbyk , godbyk-android , godbyk-away !!! clones of Agent Smith ???
<daker> :p
<godbyk> daker: I'm here. What's up?
<godbyk> I'll have to leave soon, though.
<godbyk> I tried Latin yesterday and quickshot crashed on me with that 'unknown locale' error.
<daker> godbyk, about the download url style
<godbyk> ah, I should do a short write-up on that to get my thoughts in order.
<godbyk> I'll do that later this evening when I get home and email it to you.
<daker> godbyk, oki
<godbyk> Ddorda: There will be RTL support. I haven't fixed the layout to handle RTL yet, but it'll be there in the end.
<godbyk> Ddorda: As for the 'do not translate' strings, as long as your translation exactly matches the original (untranslated) string, it should be fine.
<Ddorda> godbyk: okay. great :D
<Ddorda> who confirmed my PO?
<godbyk> I'm afraid I don't know what that means.
<godbyk> (I'm not well-versed on the entire translation process.)
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX and titeuf_87 any reason not to update the release ppa?
<Red_HamsterX> None that I know of.
<titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, I wouldn't know why not.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: you'll find out after you get a ton of bug reports upon release. ;-)
<Red_HamsterX> We fixed a few issues identified by g-odby-k (who I shall not highlight unnecessarily).
<Red_HamsterX> (Without noticing he was already active)
<ubuntujenkins> I don't think there would be i will update it now with the fixes
<Ddorda> I see in the manual "stands for" or "once stood for", what does it mean?
<dutchie> Ddorda: could you give the context?
<Ddorda> dutchie: The \acronym{GUI} (which stands for Graphical User Interface)
<ubuntujenkins> hello all
<Ddorda> hey :D
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: I see in the manual "stands for" or "once stood for", what does it mean?
<dutchie> Ddorda: it means that the letters "GUI" are a short way of writing "Graphical user interface"
<Ddorda> dutchie: I see. thanks :D
<epkugelmass> i'd like to restructure what our release/series graph looks like
<epkugelmass> we're no longer working on main
<epkugelmass> we should be on some kind of 'lucid edition 1' series
<ubuntujenkins> epkugelmass, I like your attention to detail but I would leave it to our project leader, he will be around this week. Also i don't think it matters to much as we haven't started on edition 2 yet
<ubuntujenkins> hello Daker
<Daker> back
<epkugelmass> ubuntujenkins, thats fine. i might write benjamin about it
<ubuntujenkins> cool, epkugelmass
<Ddorda> I should translate things inside \acronym ?
<dutchie> godbyk: ^^
<godbyk> Ddorda: Yes, if your language uses a different acronym.
<Ddorda> godbyk: okay, just wanted to be sure before Im ruining something
<godbyk> heh, no problem.
<godbyk> I'll be offline for a couple hours while I drive home.  I'll be back online again after that.
<godbyk> see you guys in a bit.
<Ddorda> "just to name a few" is like "just pick"?
<Ddorda> or like "just to give some examples"
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda, "just to name a few" is like "just to give some examples"
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: okay, thanks
<Ddorda> done 10% of the manual! YAY!
<Ddorda> going to bad now, gnight
<Ddorda> and 10 screenshots left too. going well :D
<Ddorda> gnight again
<ubuntujenkins> night Ddorda
#ubuntu-manual 2011-03-28
<shrini> godbyk: hai
<shrini> you there?
<shrini> I started to work with quickshots
<shrini> for ubuntu 10.10
<godbyk> Hey, shrini.
<shrini> godbyk: hai
<shrini> :-)
<godbyk> Has it been working okay for you so far?
<shrini> yes
<shrini> http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump
<shrini> here we can see the project file
<shrini> it is not documented anywhere
<shrini> will write a blog on this
<shrini> but has many doubts
<shrini> will ask in the list
<godbyk> Good idea.
<godbyk> We need to document it so that people can start using it.
<shrini> es
<shrini> yes
#ubuntu-manual 2011-03-30
<komsas> hello godbyk
<komsas> someone know how to generate print version of this manual?
<komsas> ping godbyk
<godbyk> Hey, komsas.
<komsas> hey!
<komsas> I just send you email, can you check it?
<godbyk> Ah, font size.  Good question.
<godbyk> Let me play with it a bit later tonight and see what I can come up with for you.
<godbyk> We could create a large print edition that has larger text size.
<komsas> okay, thank you, now I'm going to rest, can you write solution to my email or create commit and ask for pull in github?
<godbyk> Yep.
<komsas> thank you! bye
<godbyk> Good night.
#ubuntu-manual 2011-03-31
 * jenkins reviews some screenshots
 * MichealH blinks :P
<jenkins> server cropping fixed
<jenkins> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-01
<komsas> hello godbyk
<rickfosb> \quit
<Andre_Gondim> ./credits/credits.tex
<Andre_Gondim>                :109: (po4a::tex)
<Andre_Gondim>                ambiente desconhecido: 'translatorcredits'
<Andre_Gondim> make: ** [ubuntu-manual-pt_BR.tex] Erro 9
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, do you have any idea where may I fix it?
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Make sure you're using the lucid-e2 branch.  The maverick branch isn't ready for translations yet.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, I am using lucid-e1
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: I think you're lying. :-)
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: run 'bzr info' and see what the branch URL is.
<Andre_Gondim> hmmmmmm, my fault, sorry
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: No problem.  There are old instructions floating around still.
<godbyk> If you check out lucid-e1 with 'bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1' (or something similar to that), then your make command should work okay.
<Andre_Gondim> hmmmmm thanks godbyk
<godbyk> I have to catch the bus, but if you have any more problems with it, let me know (either here or via email).  We'll get it all sorted out. :)
<Andre_Gondim> ;)
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, where are the screenshots?
<c7p> godbyk: ping
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-02
<c7p> hey jenkins, how are you ?
<jenkins> good thanks, how are you?
<c7p> i am fine
<c7p> i took some screenshots yesterday but i tracked some bugs
<jenkins> thats great, can you pop them in a bug report?
<c7p> yes of course
<jenkins> or even better go help > report a bug
<jenkins> i don't recall exactly what it says
<jenkins> I think we got bug reporting in the curretn release
<jenkins> does anyone know who wrote the install chapter?
 * jenkins gets approving screenshots
<jenkins> thanks c7p for the bug, should have asked what sort of bug it was! I had forgotten about the change to shotwell. I just coppied most across like you guessed
<c7p> np :)
<jenkins> who wrote the shotwell chapter?
<c7p> hm
<c7p> i don't know :)
<c7p> Chris was pushing the Maverick release, he did almost all the job. From what i know there wasn't any author/editor team as there was for 10.04 manual due to the fact that almost every member of the team was too busy to contribute
<jenkins> yep me included in the too busy, I will have to catch chris
<c7p> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> c7p: pong
<c7p> that was quick ::)
<godbyk> I just happened to switch over to the irc window since I saw the bug reports people were posting.
<godbyk> and I had just finished reading the conversation when you pinged me.
<godbyk> So it all worked out nicely. :-)
<c7p> have you a list of all the manual author ?
 * c7p hehe
<godbyk> The only list I would have is what's in the credits at the back of the manual.  There may be some comments in the files themselves where authors identify themselves.
<c7p> good
<c7p> godbyk have you read my mail ?
<godbyk> Probably.  Which one?
<godbyk> Oh, the "Next meeting/ natty release plans" one?
<c7p> yes
<godbyk> I had apparently just starred it to read later.
<godbyk> I'm looking at it now.
<c7p> ok
<godbyk> It looks like some of the chapter authors and editors are shown here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/TableOfContents
<godbyk> I can email them and see if they're interested in reprising their roles for the Natty release.
<c7p> nice
<godbyk> Also, Rick and I conversed via email earlier this week.  I filled him in on how we've been doing things in the past and whatnot.
<c7p> that's great
<jenkins> night all
<c7p> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-03
<JasonO> c7p
<MichealH> JasonO: :D
<JasonO> Hi MichealH :P
<c7p> hello all :)
<JasonO> MichealH Mind logging in to Google mail for our meeting?
<MichealH> I have 10 mins to go... :/
<MichealH> sorry
<c7p> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> c7p: pong
<c7p> how are you ?
<godbyk> not too bad.
<c7p> do we have any response from authors, editors ?
<godbyk> I haven't sent the emails yet.  I'll be doing that a bit later tonight.
<c7p> ah ok
<ChrisWoollard_> Evening Godbyk
<godbyk> Hey, ChrisWoollard.
<ChrisWoollard> How are you
<godbyk> not too bad.
<godbyk> on the phone with my mom at the moment. sorry for the slow replies.
<ChrisWoollard> that's good to here
<ChrisWoollard> np
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: An hour and a half later, I'm finally off the phone!
<UndiFineD> next time, send an text
<godbyk> UndiFineD: I don't think my mom would know what to do with that. :)
<UndiFineD> :P
#ubuntu-manual 2012-03-28
<sagaci> typo in string -- https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/maverick/+pots/ubuntu-manual/en_AU/20/+translate
#ubuntu-manual 2012-03-31
* godbyk changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Oneiric edition released! | Style Guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf | Website: http://ubuntu-manual.org | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<hannie> Hey, the troika is here! where is the rest? Hi godbyk and c7p
<c7p> lol
<godbyk> Hello, hannie.
<c7p> hello
<hannie> We'll have to wait for the others to join, in the meantime I do some further reading
<c7p> agenda if anyone wants to read: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-March2012Meeting
<tomswartz07> hi all
<hannie> hello, tomswartz07
<hannie> we are waiting for more people to join us
<tomswartz07> great. sorry im late!
<c7p> hello
<godbyk> Shall we get started then?
<hannie> I think we should, although there were many more names on the doodle list
<godbyk> Okay.
<godbyk> Even though mootbot is absent/dead, we'll keep up appearances.
<godbyk> #startmeeting
<tomswartz07> we're going to be logged, correct? may as well just email it to those who missed
<godbyk> The meeting agenda is available at <http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-March2012Meeting>.
<hannie> will this be logged anyway?
<godbyk> The meeting should still be logged, yes.
<godbyk> If not, I'm logging it.
<hannie> ok
<c7p> good
<tomswartz07> great. ok. lets get into it then :)
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Recent Oneiric release
<c7p> who starts this ?
<godbyk> First off, as you've probably noticed, we just released Getting Started with Ubuntu 11.10 this week.
<godbyk> Congratulations and many thanks to everyone who helped out with that manual!
<hannie> Yes, we should be proud of the result.
<c7p> congrats :) people
<tomswartz07> its very nice! congrats
<godbyk> Having said that, it took us quite a while to get the Oneiric manual released.  Which leads us to our next agenda item:
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Problems we faced during Oneiric
<godbyk> c7p: Would you like to take this topic?
<c7p> ok i wrote this item so i start :)
<c7p> well this topic is opened in order to share our experience and what held the release of the back
<tomswartz07> i think that the major holdup was the screenshot collection.
<tomswartz07> is that fair to say?
<c7p> yeah that's right
<hannie> I think reviewing also took too long
<c7p> screenshots and the proofreading for me took the most time
<c7p> +1 hannie
<c7p> what i should mention is that in contrast with the previous releases authors didn't step off
<tomswartz07> yes, i thought the chapter authors did a very good job of getting things done in a timely manner.
<hannie> One of the solutions could be: 2 persons should keep track of "their chapter" (author(s) and editor(s))
<c7p> yeah that sounds great
<hannie> and report to the editor-in-chief
<hannie> on a regular basis
<c7p> yes
<hannie> including the screenshots in that chapter
<tomswartz07> hannie: now, correct me if Im incorrect; wasnt the screenshot issue caused by the varying methods that people were taking screenshots?
<c7p> we have to set a new editor-in-chief since Rick "resigned"
<hannie> tomswartz07, yes, but if people had checked "their" chapter it would not have been so much work for others
<tomswartz07> hannie: I see.
<hannie> c7p: how will we get a new editor-in-chief?
<c7p> godbyk: was there any other issue with screens apart from the different resolutions ?
<c7p> hannie: :D i don't know
<godbyk> c7p: I think the primary problem with the screenshots was that some were taken at the wrong resolution.  Another issue is that some screenshots hadn't been taken at all.
<tomswartz07> how many screenshots were missing completely?
<godbyk> tomswartz07: Not too many. I think there were perhaps 2â3 screenshots that were missing completely.
<c7p> hannie: regarding EiC we have to add the opening on the website if there isn't any member of the project that wants to take the role
<godbyk> A missing screenshot is one where someone has written \screenshot{...} in the .tex file, but hasn't captured the screenshot and uploaded it to the repository.
<hannie> I am in favour of giving good instructions about screenhots on our website
<hannie> Make author/editor responsible for the screenshots, but give them good instructions
<tomswartz07> hannie: i agree. perhaps if we are particular in spelling out the duties of each role it will make things easier.
<hannie> godbyk, is it possible to update the screenshot instructions on the website?
<godbyk> hannie: I'll look into that. I can add it to the style guide, as well.
<hannie> godbyk, that would be great.
<c7p> tomswartz07: +1
<c7p> are there any authors here ?
<tomswartz07> i am
<c7p> what are the problems you faced ?
<c7p> as an author always
<tomswartz07> as an author? not too much, actually.
<c7p> ah ok
<tomswartz07> updating the information and sifting through what has changed since the last version was the most difficult.
<c7p> i am asking in order to write down what are the problems in the writing process
<tomswartz07> in my section, in particular, there wasn't that much that had changed. perhaps the other sections (where more development took place) had a different experience
<hannie> c7p, do we have to send an email to all the authors and ask, or via the mailing list?
<c7p> yes maybe
<c7p> i haven't sent mails to authors
<hannie> Do you want me do do this?
<c7p> i think they are all subscribed to the list
<godbyk> Hey, ajmontag. You can read the minutes of what we've discussed (and the agenda) here: <http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-March2012Meeting>
<hannie> hi ajmontag
<tomswartz07> hey ajmontag
<c7p> hannie: that would be great, since i have many things on my mind lately
<ajmontag> Hello, i'm a bit preoccupied atm, but i'll try to read along!
<tomswartz07> i have a mild suggestion for the next version of the manual
<hannie> c7p, I will contact them about this via the list
<c7p> ok thx
<hannie> The other action that should be taken is: find an editor-in-chief. Shall I put that on the list as well?
<hannie> tomswartz07, what's the suggestion?
<tomswartz07> going along the lines of what we have just discussed, perhaps it would be best to focus (initally) on getting screenshots and compile a list of the differences between the current edition and precise
<godbyk> I agree with tomswartz07. I think that establishing the list of differences will make it a lot easier for authors to get started.
<godbyk> I don't know if one person can find all the differences, though.
<tomswartz07> naturally, the ubuntu changelogs are easy to get, but if we could use those to guide our edits it will make things so much easier
<godbyk> We may need a group of people to do this. Or perhaps we should have the authors themselves do it.
<hannie> tomswartz07, godbyk I do not quite get this:
<hannie> you mean use screenshots to point out the differences between oneiric and precise?
<tomswartz07> hannie: no. this is purely for the authors and editors sake.
<godbyk> hannie: No, not with screenshots.  We just need to figure out what changes we need to make for the new version.
<tomswartz07> it seems to me that when we dig in for the next edition, we are starting from scratch each time.
<hannie> you mean make a plan/framework of the differences?
<tomswartz07> hannie: exactly
<godbyk> hannie: yes.
<hannie> ah, ok
<tomswartz07> so far, i know that OMG!Ubuntu! and Cannonical themselves provide very good update info.
<hannie> First of all, I think we will have to find out if the current authors are willing to continue with "their" chapter
<hannie> And then they can find out what the differences are
<c7p> i think most of the authors are willing to maintain their chapter
<godbyk> how about the chapter editors?
<tomswartz07> hannie: agreed. a small addendum, however; if a master list is compiled, then (potentially) a small number of authors can work on a few chapters
<godbyk> tomswartz07: true. as long as there aren't *too* many changes.
<tomswartz07> just food for thought, however.
<godbyk> The switch to Unity was a huge change for us.
<tomswartz07> godbyk: i agree.
<c7p> we have no chapter editors as far as i remember !
<hannie> either a group of people gather a list of all the differences, or
<c7p> or there are 2
<hannie> the authors/editors do this for their chapter
<c7p> that's why the proofreading process didn't went so well
<hannie> c7p, yes we have
<c7p> how many ?
<ajmontag> After  the first of May I will be able to do editing if you'd like.
<hannie> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar0Z6vOO38EydFl2cTJRNzJPZU56WEI3VzdKNzJtR0E&hl=en_US#gid=3
<tomswartz07> hannie: isnt that just what we do now? authors make changes and then those are listed via the commit logs?
<c7p> actually how many sections are they assigned to
<c7p> this is the list of the people that wanted to contribute as editors
<hannie> I think every chapter should have a reviewer/editor assigned to it
<c7p> this doesn't mean that they all worked as editors
<c7p> sure, the problem is that almost no one wants to work as editor
<tomswartz07> well, im very willing to commit to more sections if need be
<c7p> *works
<c7p> good to know
<hannie> I am also available for more than one chapter
 * benonsoftware is free is he is needed
<hannie> so, we already have three ;)
<hannie> make that four
<c7p> the crucial part as it seemed with the 11.10 is the proofreading period :D, so if you and other contributors solve this
<tomswartz07> fair enough.
<c7p> 12.04 will go smooth
<hannie> I will ask for editors via the list too
<c7p> if we don't face any other new problems of course
<c7p> there is no need to do it know
<tomswartz07> how many are willing to start in now? perhaps if we use the pre-release interface freezes, we could get that much of a jump before the actual release
<hannie> why not? the earlier the better
<godbyk> As far as sorting out the changes between 11.10 and 12.04, are we leaving that up to the authors?
<c7p> contributors have to know that there is work for them to do atm
<c7p> we can call for authors now
<hannie> godbyk, that is what I would prefer, yes
<tomswartz07> c7p: +1
<c7p> but the experience from 11.10 shows that the editors lose their interest if they don't have job to do
<hannie> c7p, I can do that in the same email in which I address the current authors
<c7p> ok i don't have problem with this
<godbyk> hannie: Good idea. That way we can see which authors can't help us this cycle so we can find new authors to fill in those spots.
<hannie> c7p, as an editor I experienced a very good cooperation with "my" authors
<c7p> good to know :)
<tomswartz07> here's a very hopeful thought: if we could get the 12.04 edition released in a timely fashion, do you think we could contact Cannonical to get it featured on their site?
<tomswartz07> I could talk to Ben Humphrey and Joey Sneddon to see if we could get it featured on OMG!Ubuntu!
<c7p> tomswartz07: i'm not sure about this :/
<hannie> tomswartz07, I put an item on the agenda: Promoting the manual. Is that what you mean?
<tomswartz07> hannie: surely
<c7p> i mean about the canonical
<tomswartz07> c7p: what are your reservations?
<c7p> i think they want to see something very neat to put it on their website
<c7p> you know with great design etc, but that's just thoughts, we don't have anything to lose if we send them a mail
<hannie> Well, oneiric is quite neat, don't you think?
<c7p> i mean in respect of design
<tomswartz07> hannie: i agree. its better than saying 'oh, just go to this website for help'. a co-opted manual may help those just starting.
<tomswartz07> at any rate, heres an idea:
<hannie> ok, it is still too early to promote Precise. But we should do it when the time is there
<c7p> +1
<c7p> we have other issues to look now
<tomswartz07> if we could get a signal boost from various open source sites, we could get volunteers to help improve the design for 12.04
<c7p> i agree
<godbyk> tomswartz07: I do have a lot of thoughts on the website end of things, but we'll have to save those for another meeting, I'm afraid.
<tomswartz07> godbyk: fair enough.
<c7p> tomswartz07: first we need to track down the things we want from them to do, and be specific
<godbyk> Shall we move on down the agenda?
<tomswartz07> c7p: im willing to help with this, if you wish. moving on.
<c7p> yeah
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Division of tasks: 1 or more persons responsible for: screenshots, final editing, planning/scheduling, roadmap, publishing etc.
<godbyk> I think we've covered some of this already.
<godbyk> It looks like we want the authors to be responsible for their own screenshots and for determining what needs to be updated within their chapter, correct?
<hannie> yes
<tomswartz07> I think so.
<c7p> yes
<godbyk> I think that the editing should be up to each chapter editor (though we may need to provide some more clear guidelines on what this entails).
<hannie> final editing = task editor-in-chief (will be quite a job!)
<godbyk> That leaves the editor-in-chief to worry about the bigger-picture stuff like the overall schedule and roadmap for the release cycle and to sign off on the final edition to be published.
<c7p> maybe that's a bit deterring for a new EiC that isn't member of the project already :/
<hannie> although it depends on the author/editor teams. If they do their best there won't be much to do for the editor-in-chief
<godbyk> The scheduling of work within a chapter can be handled by the chapter editor and the chapter authors.
<hannie> Yes, first we have many little islands. Later we make it one big country :)
<godbyk> I think what's happened in the past few releases is that hannie, c7p, and I fix little bugs and make minor edits throughout the manual.
<godbyk> Then when we're tired of doing that, we release the PDF.
<godbyk> :)
<tomswartz07> not to downplay the role of the EiC, but it seems that the main role is to just give the whole manual a read-through and give it a proofread?
<hannie> right. Therefore I insist on giving authors/editors more responsibility
<godbyk> tomswartz07: I'd say that the primary role of the EiC it to keep everyone on task and on schedule.
<tomswartz07> godbyk: i see.
<godbyk> The EiC doesn't do a lot of copy-editing, per se.
<godbyk> (Or at least, the EiC shouldn't be responsible for editing the entire manual himself/herself.)
<c7p> godbyk: you mean an author/editor coordinator in other words ?
<hannie> godbyk, what was the reason Rick stopped? Was it too much work for him?
<godbyk> c7p: Yes. As well as the driver of the project during that cycle.
<godbyk> hannie: I think his day job started taking up more of his time.
<ajmontag> So who ensures consistant voice and style among chapters? EiC?
<tomswartz07> perhaps we could give the EiC a task to help promote the manual?
<godbyk> ajmontag: Ostensibly, yes. In the past, I don't think that's really happened, though.
<c7p> i agree with Kevin
<hannie> We have to describe the job for the EiC before we try to find one
<tomswartz07> hannie: +1
<c7p> yap
<tomswartz07> it seems that in our rush to get the manual done, many of the jobs have become muddled.
<godbyk> tomswartz07: I agree.
<c7p> +1
<godbyk> I think that we should more clearly define the responsibilities and duties of each role (author, editor, EiC).
<tomswartz07> godbyk: +5
<godbyk> That way everyone knows what he/she needs to do.
<c7p> godbyk: that's a whole new meeting
<godbyk> c7p: Agreed.
<c7p> but we need more people on the meeting too
<hannie> I suggest we describe these roles via the list
<c7p> especially those who are affected
<godbyk> Perhaps it's something we can do on the mailing list.  I can write up a draft and post it to the list for feedback if you like.
<c7p> hannie: that's a solution too
<tomswartz07> godbyk: Google Doc? shared edits?
<godbyk> tomswartz07: It might be better to have more of a discussion format to start with.
<tomswartz07> i see. good idea.
<hannie> godbyk, good idea: make a draft and put it on the list for feedback
<godbyk> tomswartz07: ..Since we'll want to collect opinions of what people think their roles currently entail.
<godbyk> hannie: Okay, I'll do that.
<c7p> btw a collaboration platform would be very helpful
<godbyk> c7p: Can you be more specific as to what you mean?
<c7p> yes
<ajmontag> Well I've gotta run, will catch up with the agenda later on. Bye.
<tomswartz07> see ya ajmontag
<godbyk> ajmontag: Okay. Thanks for coming, ajmontag.
<hannie> bye ajmontag
<c7p> we in greek ubuntu community have use atrium http://openatrium.com/
<c7p> this helps us to communicate set tasks
<c7p> update the status of the task,
<benonsoftware> c7p: Is that the one based on Drupal?
<c7p> divide team members in task droups etc
<c7p> benonsoftware: im not sure but i can ask our admin
<hannie> I will add atrium to my favourites and study it later
<benonsoftware> As I think we are using that also for one project I'm in
<benonsoftware> Yeah, we are using that also
<c7p> that's a tool that helps us to see what are the tasks that need to be done
<benonsoftware> Yeah
<c7p> i usually find myself forgetting what i wanted to do
<hannie> c7p, I suggest we put this on the next meeting's agenda
<c7p> i agree
<godbyk> Okay.
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Format of the new version
<hannie> godbyk, I did not have time to study booktype, although I started with converting Prologue
<hannie> You did the same I noticed
<godbyk> hannie: Yeah, I converted the entire Prologue using Booktype.
<hannie> So did I :)
<godbyk> Booktype appears to be geared primarily toward generated ePUB-format e-books.
<hannie> I suppose it is too late now to discuss booktype.
<godbyk> So their editor is limited to the types of things you can do with ePUB.
<c7p> i think we can use booktype in this series instead of the ubuntuone method
<godbyk> I don't think Booktype will work for us as it stands now, but it may be something we can modify or use as an example for creating a new system that works for our needs.
<hannie> So, we stick to LaTeX for the moment?
<c7p> if we see that everything goes well with booktype and that suits 100% to the project we can publish the manual this way, if not we just convert the chapters to latex as we did for 11.10
<godbyk> I am going to work on writing a script that can convert our manual to ePUB format when I get some time.  We'll see how it goes.
<godbyk> I think we should stick to LaTeX for now.
<tomswartz07> what are the pros of going to booktype?
<hannie> This needs further discussion in the next meeting
<tomswartz07> im assuming that this is in replacement of LaTeX?
<godbyk> tomswartz07: The pros of using Booktype are that it has a web-based editor.
<c7p> i tend to latex too kevin
<godbyk> tomswartz07: Everyone edits their text via the website.
<godbyk> tomswartz07: It's has a sort-of WYSIWYG editor, but it's limited in functionality to what the ePUB format can do.
<godbyk> For instance, ePUB doesn't have margin notes.
<c7p> authors can comment on chapters, and communicate with each other
<tomswartz07> godbyk: I see. Im unfamiliar with it.
<hannie> godbyk, what I missed is the possibility of marginnotes
<godbyk> ePUB doesn't have footnotes, either, so you have to use end notes with links between the main text and the end note (and vice versa).
<c7p> i think we have to share it with the list
<hannie> yes, it does have footnotes
<hannie> but nommarginnotes
<tomswartz07> is there a way to take LaTeX to ePub?
<godbyk> hannie: They're not real footnotes, though. They're end notes.
<hannie> ah, ok.
<godbyk> tomswartz07: Well, I'm going to write a script that should convert our manual to ePUB.  It's really hard to do for the general case of all possible LaTeX documents, but since our manual only uses a small subset of commands, I don't think it'll be too difficult.
<tomswartz07> very nice.
<hannie> godbyk, you are our hero
<c7p> superkevin
<godbyk> hannie: Only if I get a working script. :-)
<tomswartz07> i havent tested it, but does anyone know if there are formatting issues with the PDF on a basic eReader? (OG Kindle, for example)
<hannie> godbyk, will you inform the list about booktype?
<tomswartz07> I know some LaTeX PDFs dont play nice.
<godbyk> hannie: Sure.
<hannie> ty
<hannie> tomswartz07, I think our manual.pdf looks fine
<hannie> If authors do not know the latex code others will help them
<godbyk> tomswartz07: It could probably be formatted a little better as it's currently on a full sheet of paper. If we generated a PDF on smaller page sizes, it might look better on the ebook readers.  (I haven't tested this, though.)
<godbyk> It's certainly something we can explore if anyone has an ebook reader and wants to test out some different PDFs for us.
<tomswartz07> I have a Nook, but it's rooted... Not much help here.
<godbyk> tomswartz07: Will it read PDFs?
<tomswartz07> the standard PDF looks as perfect as it does on a computer.
<hannie> godbyk, we're 20 minutes overtime :)
<godbyk> hannie: Duly noted!
<godbyk> We can discuss formats some more in the future. Feel free to started a thread on the mailing list about ebooks if you like.
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Strict deadline
 * godbyk doesn't want to keep hannie and c7p up past their bedtime. It's already super-late for them.
<tomswartz07> sorry folks! :X
<c7p> i don't have problem with time guys
<c7p> really
<hannie> Maybe this will be the task of the EiC, so leave it for the moment
<godbyk> hannie: I think we have to sort out what changes need to be made before we can establish a deadline, too.
<hannie> ok
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<hannie> I am quite happy with the results of our first Precise meeting,
<godbyk> Is there anything else urgent that we need to discuss during this meeting?
<c7p> recap the tasks that we have to ?
<hannie> although I think it a pity so many people put their names on the list but did not come
<godbyk> Sure.
<tomswartz07> None here. I look forward to starting in on the 12.04 edition.
<godbyk> [ACTION] To help alleviate these problems in the future, we will provide clear instructions on how to take the screenshots and insert them in the manual. The chapter author and editor are responsible for the screenshots that appear in their chapter. These instructions should appear in the style guide.
<godbyk> [ACTION] Explicitly spell out the duties of the chapter author and editor so they know what their responsibilities are.
<hannie> nope. I want to thank you all for being here
<godbyk> [ACTION] Hannie will email the authors to assess what problems they encountered during the previous release cycle.
<godbyk> [ACTION] Authors will be responsible for determining what needs to be updated from 11.10 to 12.04.
<godbyk> [ACTION] Provide clearer lists of responsibilities and guidance for each of these roles.
<godbyk> [ACTION] godbyk will create a draft list of responsibilities for each of the roles and post it to the mailing list for feedback.
<godbyk> [ACTION] godbyk will inform the list about Booktype.
<c7p> ok good
<godbyk> I think we should also hold regular meetings again.
<benonsoftware> You should book #ubuntu-meeting for the next meeting
<hannie> Right, there is work to be done
<c7p> yeah i agree
<godbyk> That seemed to help keep people involved in the project.
<tomswartz07> godbyk: +1
<c7p> even every week
<hannie> c7p, will you plan the next meeting?
<c7p> sure
<hannie> oh, so nice to work with you guys!
<c7p> me 2
<godbyk> c7p: thanks!
<hannie> See you next time.
<c7p> cheers
<godbyk> Okay, then. Meeting adjourned!
<godbyk> #endmeeting
<tomswartz07> cheers all!
<c7p> cheers
<godbyk> Feel free to hang around and chat some more, if you li.e
<godbyk> like, rather.
<c7p> i'll stay
<tomswartz07> im staying :)
<godbyk> I'll collect these minutes notes and post the minutes to the mailing list.
<hannie> yes, time to relax. I have been working for Ubuntu all day
 * benonsoftware is also staying :P
<tomswartz07> did anyone contact any news sources RE: the 11.10 edition?
<godbyk> tomswartz07: Nope, though one news source contacted me.
<tomswartz07> its release, I should say
<godbyk> Let me find the link.
<godbyk> tomswartz07: http://news.efytimes.com/e1/80966/Here-Comes-Ubuntu-Manual
<tomswartz07> very nice!
<godbyk> Looks like we've had one person buy the print edition of 11.10.
<benonsoftware> Just wondering has any work been done on the website?
<godbyk> I'll have to see how many downloads we've had.
<benonsoftware> (After what happend last time and test.)
<godbyk> benonsoftware: No, but I'd really like to get a new website up and running.
<benonsoftware> Okies
<godbyk> I'd like the website to be manageable by multiple people (project leaders, editor-in-chief).
<benonsoftware> How is it manage atm?
<godbyk> At the moment, I log into the server and edit the site by hand while it's live. Not the best solution, I can assure you!
<tomswartz07> what if we use a wysiwyg website editor? Weebly comes to mind. It allows multiple editors
<tomswartz07> its free and allows for custom domains
<benonsoftware> godbyk: Yeah, I've done that before :P
<benonsoftware> tomswartz07: tbh I've used weebly a few times and its not really good for sites that ubuntu-manual.org
<godbyk> Some of the things I'd like to be able to do with the website is allow people to modify the text of the site (e.g., add/remove/edit job listings, news items, edit static text), publish manuals (upload the PDF, set the language and format).
<godbyk> And that's just for the public-facing site.
<godbyk> It'd also be nice if we could move all of our writing, editing, translating, and publishing stuff to a web interface to make it easier for everyone to do their work.
<godbyk> then they wouldn't have to download LaTeX and learn its syntax.
<benonsoftware> Hmm, okies
<godbyk> or worry about retranslating an entire paragraph just because someone fixed a typo.
<tomswartz07> i know we tried with having online edits, and those who knew LaTeX would copy/pasta
<godbyk> I have plenty of big ideas, but no time to implement them myself. :/
<benonsoftware> Well for the public frontent WordPress in my mind would be a good system (or Drupal)
<godbyk> tomswartz07: We did. I'm not sure how well that worked.  I recall going through and fixing a bunch of LaTeX markup as a result of that.
<godbyk> tomswartz07: Some editors would miss a lot of the markup that they should've inserted.
<tomswartz07> i see.
<godbyk> benonsoftware: WordPress would be okay for part of the site. I don't know how well it'd handle our download page, though.  http://ubuntu-manual.org/downloads
<godbyk> We also need to make sure the site is multilingual.
<benonsoftware> What do you mean? (About download)
<godbyk> The big download button on the front page should go to the latest version of the manual for whatever language is being shown at the moment.
<godbyk> Same with the 'buy this book' starburst.
<tomswartz07> I think that if we move to an online frontend for editing, it would be much easier for authors, but we would lose so much in the featureset in terms of formatting and editing
<godbyk> Right now those are broken a little bit because the site just wasn't designed with that in mind at the very beginning.
<godbyk> benonsoftware: The dropdown lists and options that allow you to select which PDF you want to download.
<benonsoftware> Okies
<godbyk> tomswartz07: Well, we'd need to modify the online editor to allow for the insertion of margin notes, screenshots, and the other elements that exist in our manual.
<godbyk> If the online editor stored the text in an XML format, for instance, then we could more easily convert it to HTML, ePUB, LaTeX, and other formats.
<godbyk> (There would still need to be some tweaking after the automatic conversion, I suspect, but it'd handle the bulk of the work.)
<godbyk> There was a second version of the Ubuntu Manual website that was created.  It lives at <http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/>.
<godbyk> I think it was designed to solve a couple of these issues (and got a face-lift).
<godbyk> But I'm not sure how to modify anything on the site (e.g., add new downloads).
<godbyk> I don't know if it's best to start from scratch or to build from one of the existing sites.
<godbyk> (I suspect it's best if we establish clear goals and use cases for our website and design new site from the ground up with these things in mind.)
<benonsoftware> +1
<tomswartz07> what if we have an open call for new ideas?
<godbyk> tomswartz07: I think it's better that we establish an initial set of ideas first and then we can put it out there to get more opinions and have people look it over.
<tomswartz07> At my work, we have a method of code review (using gerrit) that allows many of us to make code changes to get approved before go-live
<godbyk> Otherwise I think it'd generate too many ideas and we'd never get anywhere.
<tomswartz07> perhaps I should rephrase; have an open call for those who can do website design, then take those people and have a brainstorming meeting
<c7p> sounds good
<tomswartz07> Id be willing to head that group. I've done about half a dozen websites from (mostly) scratch.
<c7p> that's very encouraging :)
<tomswartz07> but, godbyk; youre right. I think we need to get our heads together and get a plan before moving on anything
<tomswartz07> looking back at how muddled things got, i think planning is something that should be imperative
<godbyk> tomswartz07: I agree.
<godbyk> I think that we need to have a clear picture of what we want before we bring in the web developers.
<c7p> yess
<godbyk> I think we should be flexible enough to change things a bit of the web devs thing it's a good idea,
<godbyk> but if we bring in a bunch of web devs and just say, 'Hey, we want a new website,' it's unlikely that we'll get what we really want.
<c7p> yap
<tomswartz07> i agree
<c7p> and we need to gain the respect of the community
<c7p> or at least seem as an active project
<godbyk> c7p: That would definitely help.
<godbyk> And for that to happen, I think we need to get a lot better organized.
<tomswartz07> if we advertise more, it may help
<godbyk> We've been fairly slap-dash so far.
<tomswartz07> haha i agree
<tomswartz07> Ill tell you what. Ill talk to the guys at OMG: Ben originally started the project, so he's sure to be willing to advertise it
<godbyk> tomswartz07: They've done a great job in the past of advertising for us: posting about new releases of the manual and about our call for 'job' applicants.
<godbyk> I think that once we figure out exactly what we want/need, then we can go to them and have them help us get the word out.
<godbyk> But we can't skip that first step. :)
<tomswartz07> i concur.
<c7p> +100
<tomswartz07> they didnt talk about the oneiric release, though. did they?
<c7p> we didn't contact them so i don't think they did
<godbyk> tomswartz07: Nope, but then I haven't emailed them about it directly, either.
<tomswartz07> at any rate, it might help to advertise it. we did work pretty hard on it.
<godbyk> tomswartz07: If you'd like to tip them off about it, you're welcome to.
<tomswartz07> sounds like a plan. Ill do that right now!
<tomswartz07> <('-'<)
<godbyk> Does anyone know who runs the meetingology bot?
<godbyk> Since mootbot appears to be defunct/dead, it'd be handy to have meetingology hand out in our channel to help with meetings.
<benonsoftware> godbyk: Alan Bell does
<benonsoftware> See #meetingology
<godbyk> benonsoftware: Thanks. I'll contact them.
<benonsoftware> No worries
<godbyk> benonsoftware: I've messaged Alan about it.
<benonsoftware> Okies
<tomswartz07> Should I ask OMG to put in about volunteers?
<godbyk> tomswartz07: Let's wait to hear back from hannie to see what authors are still available, etc.
<tomswartz07> if so, who to contact?
<godbyk> then we'll know what volunteers we'll need.
<tomswartz07> sounds good. :)
<tomswartz07> ok- im off! this laundry isnt going to do itself :P
<tomswartz07> great meeting everyone! talk to you all soon
<godbyk> See you later, tomswartz07. Thanks for coming!
<c7p> cya tomswartz07
<c7p> thanks for coming
<godbyk> Hey.. meetingology has joined us.  That'll come in handy for our next meeting.
<c7p> xD
<benonsoftware> :P
#ubuntu-manual 2013-03-25
<Darkwing> question, do you guys need any Kubuntu writers?
<thorwil> Darkwing: afair derivatives are mentioned, but there's no specific documentation
<thorwil> in other words, the manual is all about the main flavor
#ubuntu-manual 2014-03-28
<ske14> Whom should I contact regarding terminological errors within the manual?
