#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-22
<astraljava> Hey folks, I'm back, sort of. :D
<ScottL_> hello astraljava 
<astraljava> Hi Scott. I just talked to Luis, and he mentioned I should get to you regarding tasks to be done for the next devel cycle.
<astraljava> I know I'm a bit early, but I like to get in early, so that I'm prepared when it all kicks in.
<astraljava> I don't think you were around when I was, I used to do some packaging and general all-around work for a couple of releases.
<astraljava> I needed to step down for a bit, mostly due to building a house. It's now almost finished, just about one and a half months to go.
<astraljava> After that, around the end of May, I could start spending more time on hobbies again, and I never lost my love to this project.
<astraljava> So, just wanted to re-present myself and join in the ranks. :)
<ScottL_> Capital!  that is absolutely fantastic news :)
<astraljava> Glad to hear that. :)
<abogani> ScottL_: Are you around?
<ScottL_> yes abogani, but at work so I'm a little here and there
<abogani> ScottL_: Not urgent: Could you create a page (wiki?) really visible to inform our users (those who aren't subscribed -user ml) of this https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-users/2010-March/006022.html ? In particular of the order in evaluating kernels. I would want that our users start to use -preempt or -lowlatency and use -rt and -realtime only in few cases.
<ScottL_> astraljava: we don't really have a direction planned yet for the next release but when we do I'll defintely let you know
<ScottL_> abogani: yes, I can work that into my schedule, but the soonest would be after this weekend
<abogani> ScottL_: Not a problem but, if it is possible, before of the Lucid release (that is before of 29 April).
<abogani> ScottL_: Thanks in advance.
<astraljava> ScottL_: Thanks! I'll be joining the relevant forums during the next month or so, so I should catch all important messages when it's time for them anyway. That's LP group, this channel, the mailing lists, what else?
<astraljava> Hi Alessio, long time no type. :D
<abogani> astraljava: Janne?
<astraljava> Correct. :)
<abogani> astraljava: So it is very long time :)
<ScottL_> abogani: certainly, I would prefer to get it as soon as possible, but it will defintely be before 29 April :)
<astraljava> abogani: Too long, I should say, but what can you do, it took all this time to build a house. :)
<abogani> ScottL_: Thanks Scott! It is *very* important for me.
<abogani> astraljava: :-)
<ScottL_> astraljava: I think the majority of development discussions occurs on this channel or the -dev mailing list
<abogani> astraljava: You are surprised me I don't think that Europeans still build houses on their own (instead I knwo for sure that some Americans do it). 
<abogani> s/knwo/know
<astraljava> abogani: Not all on my own, but yeah, we have spent quite a lot of hours on it during the last two years.
<astraljava> abogani: People here in Finland do it quite a lot.
<astraljava> ScottL_: Alright, thanks.
<abogani> astraljava: If I'll have a change in my life to go in Finland I'll sure a take a look :-)
<astraljava> abogani: I'll keep that in mind. :)
<stochastic> hey everyone
<jussi01> cripes, astraljava is back around! is your house finished then mate?
<jussi01> hiya stochastic
<ScottL_> hi stochastic!
<stochastic> ScottL_, I see Martin Pitt has approved the ubuntustudio-look feature freeze exception but hasn't uploaded it.  I guess the next step is for someone on the team with upload privileges to push the seed.
<ScottL_> stochastic: really?  I didn't get an email about the exception.  hmmm, I need to pull the branch and make the changes right away then don't I?
 * ScottL_ is checking the bug and my spam filter
<stochastic> Bug 538274
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538274 in ubuntustudio-look "UI Freeze Exception for ubuntustudio-look" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538274
<ScottL_> hmmm, actually had several (some important and some not so) emails in my spam folder, for some reason the filter really likes to eat Pitt's and Scott Kitterman's emails :(
<stochastic> eeek that's no good
<abogani> quadrispro: May I disturb you for a minute?
<quadrispro> abogani, of course
<abogani> quadrispro: I have just posted an answer on -motu. Could you give me your suggestions? Thanks in advance.
<abogani> quadrispro: If you have any free time. :-)
<astraljava> jussi01: Almost, just need about one and a half months. :)
 * abogani would want request your opinions... My linux-realtime fix at least two bugs. What do you would want that I should do? Update linux-rt? Keep linux-realtime up-to-dated and let untouched linux-rt? What do you think is better for our users?
<ckontros> astraljava: You back? :)
 * ckontros also notices Luis is back in channel.
<ScottL> i have committed the changes to ubuntustudio-look package to add the plymouth theme
<ScottL> I am guessing that persia` or TheMuso will be required to check them (please do!) and the push
<ScottL> please let me know if I need to do anything else or fix something or whatever :)
<ScottL> also I would actually feel better if you queried me about it, e.g. "Did you remember to..."
<TheMuso> ScottL: What branch?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-23
<ScottL> TheMuso, ubuntustudio-look
<TheMuso> ScottL: Yes, but your branch, the ubuntustudio-dev branch, which one?
<ScottL> TheMuso, revision 35 should be mine, is that the information you need?
<ScottL> under lp:ubuntu/ubuntustudio-look
<ScottL> i tried to answer quick like before I took a shower and I realized I was being an idiot in the shower, sorry 'bout that
<TheMuso> ScottL: ah ok
<TheMuso> ScottL: the branch you mentioned does not have your changes. lp:ubuntu/ubuntustudio-look is a bzr mirror of the ubuntu archive.
<ScottL> TheMuso, ah, so I'll have to use the ubuntustudio-dev branch, okay...i'll try to get it later tonight after all the kids are in bed
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> ScottL: no I just need to know where to pull your changes from.
<ScottL> that explains why only members of Ubuntu Branches could only push to it
<TheMuso> ScottL: Seems you didn't add the files needed for the plymouth theme.
<TheMuso> You added the bits to install the plymouth theme, but not the theme itself.
<ScottL> hold on, let me go back upstairs
<TheMuso> sure
<astraljava> TheMuso: Thanks for adding me to the LP team! :)
<jussi01> Our default settings page, what does that ch
<jussi01> Our default settings package, what does that change?
<TheMuso> jussi01: The theme for the desktop, terminal colours, wallpaper.
<jussi01> TheMuso: ok. so it actually changes config files? (Im thinking of suggesting it as a template for a group who need to change the default IRC channel on their distro, suitable?)
<TheMuso> jussi01: Depends on the IRC client.
<jussi01> s/distro/derivative/
<jussi01> TheMuso: xchat
<TheMuso> jussi01: Because it mostly deals with setting gconf keys.,
<jussi01> oh
<TheMuso> jussi01: Not sure this would help then, as this is mostly gconf
<jussi01> TheMuso: bug 513915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 513915 in guadalinexedu "IRC Clients join Ubuntu channels by default" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513915
<TheMuso> jussi01: Right don't know xchat.
<astraljava> jussi01: xchat stores the default channel in .xchat2/servlist_.conf, in server section, under J=<channel> option.
<astraljava> jussi01: So, I would guess that creating such a file under /etc/skel should take care of the problem.
<TheMuso> astraljava: thats a hacky solution.
<TheMuso> The defaults need to be set somehow in the package itself, or a default configuratino file that can be owned by different packages.
<astraljava> TheMuso: I know, but I don't know xchat that well to come up with a better one. :)
<jussi01> hrm: was asked "Can you recommend a good Linux native audio plugin for real time glitch effects?"
<jussi01> anyone?
<astraljava> No idea, sorry.
<persia> jussi01: You can't do it for xchat, unless you patch xchat to have more system defaults.
<persia> Specifically, there's a default config in the package and per-user config, but no per-host config, and no means of adjusting the default config on a per-host basis.  It is a requirement for a working foo-default-settings package for there to be such a mechanism.
<ScottL> jussi01, ladspa has an "scratchy" effect, like the sound of an old record playing on a turn table, don't remember the actual name of the effect but I could find it pretty quickly i think if you would like
<ScottL_> i see that TheMuso merged the plymouth theme into ubuntustudio-looks    yay!
<astraljava> Good morning ScottL_! :)
<ScottL_> good morning astraljava , how are you this morning?
<astraljava> I'm good, thanks for asking. Debugging some stuff at work atm. Gonna have lunch soon. And you?
<ScottL_> just got up and dressed for work, have fifteen minutes before getting kids up and then leaving for work
<astraljava> Right'o. Have fun!
<ScottL_> jussi01, the ladspa effect that I mentioned is VyNil I believe
<ScottL_> astraljava, do yo work on ubuntu or linux at work?
<astraljava> ScottL_: linux, mostly. Maemo stuff.
<Scott-work> quadrispro, way to go on the sooperlooper bug!
<Scott-work> after reading you and persia talk I didn't think it would get fixed
<persia> It won't.
 * persia files a bug for archive removal
<persia> Ohy, nifty.  Can just move to multiverse :)
<quadrispro> ehya guys! nice to see you
<quadrispro> what's the problem?
<persia> Non-commercial in universe
<quadrispro> sooperlooper?
<persia> Yeah.
<Scott-work> so, we have the latest version of sooperlooper but it will probably move out of universe into mulitverse?
<Scott-work> and will this effect Ubuntu Studio release in any way?
<quadrispro> ah yep, now i get it! sorry, but the fever doesn't allow me to understand things quickly :)
<persia> Scott-work: Yeah, I just filed the bug to move it.
<persia> I don't believe we can include it on the CD, although I may be mistaken.
<persia> Err, DVD
<persia> quadrispro: Are you sure none of the GPL stuff links against that file?
<quadrispro> just a moment please
<quadrispro> doing some checks
<astraljava> quadrispro: Do write with my name on it. :D
<astraljava> one
<quadrispro> persia, I'm not sure, we should investigate
<persia> quadrispro: Would you file an RC bug in the BTS about it?  That usually gets someone to investigate.
<persia> Because if it does, it needs to get removed or patched away.
<quadrispro> yep
<persia> Thanks.
<persia> And we'll just stick in multiverse until it gets sorted.
<Scott-work> a few questions please:   what does RC and BTS stand for?
<Scott-work> is this something that _might_ be sorted before lucid release?
<persia> Scott-work: RC is Release Critical.  BTS is the Bug Tracking System.  These usually reference Debian terms.
<Scott-work> ok, thanks!
<persia> So quadrispro is filing a bug regarding the Debian squeeze release.
<persia> And I filed a *diffeent* bug to put it in multiverse for lucid.
<Scott-work> if things are not sorted before lucid then I take it that sooperlooper cannot be released in lucid, even an older version that might be considered in the universe?
<persia> The newer version was already published.
<quadrispro> make[6]: Entering directory `/build/buildd-sooperlooper_1.6.14-1-amd64-wwBn5r/sooperlooper-1.6.14/libs/pbd'
<persia> We can't go back without a lot of pain.
<quadrispro> g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.     -D_REENTRANT -Os -fomit-frame-pointer -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse -pipe -Wall -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -I/build/buildd-sooperlooper_1.6.14-1-amd64-wwBn5r/sooperlooper-1.6.14/libs/pbd -I/build/buildd-sooperlooper_1.6.14-1-amd64-wwBn5r/sooperlooper-1.6.14/libs/midi++ -I/usr/include/libxml2   -I/usr/lib/sigc++-1.2/include -I/usr/include/sigc++-1.2   -c -o basename.o basename.cc
<quadrispro> g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.     -D_REENTRANT -Os -fomit-frame-pointer -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse -pipe -Wall -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -I/build/buildd-sooperlooper_1.6.14-1-amd64-wwBn5r/sooperlooper-1.6.14/libs/pbd -I/build/buildd-sooperlooper_1.6.14-1-amd64-wwBn5r/sooperlooper-1.6.14/libs/midi++ -I/usr/include/libxml2   -I/usr/lib/sigc++-1.2/include -I/usr/include/sigc++-1.2   -c -o dmalloc.o dmalloc.cc
<quadrispro> [....]
<persia> Ugh.
<quadrispro> ar cru libpbd.a basename.o dirname.o dmalloc.o ftw.o mountpoint.o pathscanner.o pool.o pthread_utils.o receiver.o textreceiver.o transmitter.o undo.o unescape.o version.o xml++.o 
<Scott-work> persia: that's what I figured :(
<quadrispro> g++ -I/usr/lib/sigc++-1.2/include -I/usr/include/sigc++-1.2       -I/usr/include/libxml2      -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT -Os -fomit-frame-pointer -mmmx -msse -mfpmath=sse -pipe -Wall -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -I/build/buildd-sooperlooper_1.6.14-1-amd64-wwBn5r/sooperlooper-1.6.14/libs/pbd -I/build/buildd-sooperlooper_1.6.14-1-amd64-wwBn5r/sooperlooper-1.6.14/libs/midi++   -o sooperlooper  sooperlooper.o libsldrivers.a lib
<quadrispro> slcore.a /build/buildd-sooperlooper_1.6.14-1-amd64-wwBn5r/sooperlooper-1.6.14/libs/midi++/libmidipp.a /build/buildd-sooperlooper_1.6.14-1-amd64-wwBn5r/sooperlooper-1.6.14/libs/pbd/libpbd.a -ljack -lpthread -lrt   -llo -lpthread   -lsigc-1.2   -lrubberband    -lsndfile   -lsamplerate   -lasound -lxml2   /build/buildd-sooperlooper_1.6.14-1-amd64-wwBn5r/sooperlooper-1.6.14/libs/midi++/libmidipp.a /build/buildd-sooperlooper_1.6.14-1-
<quadrispro> amd64-wwBn5r/sooperlooper-1.6.14/libs/pbd/libpbd.a
<persia> quadrispro: Please reimplement dmalloc.cc :)
<quadrispro> persia, eh eh, we need to :)
<persia> Yeah.  That's a license violation right there.
<persia> :(
<quadrispro> persia, ok, 1 principle: I love sooperlooper but 2 things to do: 1. contact upstream 2. re-implement dmalloc.cc
<persia> Unfortunately :(
<persia> sooperlooper is *lots* of fun.
<persia> But this whole "NON-COMMERCIAL" concept in linux-audio has got to go.
<persia> open-source just doesn't work that way.
<quadrispro> sure
<persia> Making money is about being good at what one does, and having a good solution, and selling it, not about collecting rent for what one did last month.
<quadrispro> unbelievable, this chaos is due to 4 functions...
<quadrispro> 4 f*****g and "NON-COMMERCIAL" functions...
<persia> Yeah.
<quadrispro> persia, ok, now please help me: should I replace dmalloc.cc with my version and repack the tarball?
<quadrispro> sorry, I mean substitue the files after repacking
<quadrispro> * substitute
<persia> I'd probably repack and delete the offending file, and then add a replacement in a patch.
<quadrispro> excellent, working on it
<quadrispro> hope to release a new package soon
<persia> Thanks for the quick turn-around.
<persia> You might want to comment on bug #545066 before an archive-admin gets to it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 545066 in sooperlooper "Please demote sooperlooper to mulitverse" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/545066
<Scott-work> quadrispro: I've added you to my list of people who rock!
<Scott-work> sorry, that was sooo Jono
<quadrispro> lol
<quadrispro> persia, found a newer revision, which has been released under different terms
<persia> heh, and after you reimplmented it :)
<persia> Saves the discussion with upstream though.
<quadrispro> no, I've found a new revision of dmalloc.cc 
<quadrispro> same author, different license
<persia> Oh, even better!
<quadrispro> http://paste.ubuntu.com/399997/
<persia> You had to change it?
<quadrispro> persia, now I have to adapt the code, then testbuilding etc etc
<persia> Ah, makes sense.
<persia> I'd recommend changing the license: let me post:
<persia> Oh, do you claim copyright for your changes, or do you assign Grant copyright for your changes?
<quadrispro> doesn't matter, I can leave the copyright to the original author
<quadrispro> no problem
<persia> OK.  If you don't claim copyright, then no license change.
<quadrispro> can we consider it as GPL-compatible?
<persia> Yes.
<persia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/400003/ would be the license if you wanted to assert copyright.
<quadrispro> ah sure, ok
<persia> If you don't, what you wrote is also correct.
<quadrispro> persia, I solved the problem but not changing the source: just dropping it :)
<quadrispro> and this is because it's unnecessary :)
<quadrispro> persia, Scott-work -> http://home.alessiotreglia.com/unstable/pool/sooperlooper_1.6.14-2/
<Scott-work> Applying patch 02-disable_dmalloc.patch?
<quadrispro> yep, now i'm working on the packaing, I should add the tags to that patch
<quadrispro> packaging *
<quadrispro> Scott-work, I'd append .dfsg to the current upstream version number, debian release changes from 1.6.14-1 to 1.6.14.dfsg-1
<quadrispro> Scott-work, is it correct? is it enough? (obviously, I will upload a new orig.tar.gz)
<Scott-work> I will have to defer to persia since he is more knowledgeable about licenses than I but I think it sounds good
<Scott-work> off note, I learned today that Dan from Linux Outlaws uses Ubuntu Studio apparently :)
<quadrispro> :)
<quadrispro> uploading
<quadrispro> persia, Scott-work: uploaded
<Scott-work> sooperlooper updated and kept in universe?  sooperdooper!  :P
<quadrispro> Scott-work, I update the report
<quadrispro> updated
<Scott-work> thanks quadrispro for the quick response
<quadrispro> you're welcome! 
<abogani> Scott-work: Finally an Italian (=quadrispro) that do a good work! :-)
<quadrispro> lol
<quadrispro> the second 'Alessio'!
<quadrispro> :)
<quadrispro> abogani, I mean, you are the first one! :)
<Scott-work> abogani: on the contrary, I think you do good work as well!
<Scott-work> your chosen field of work is contentious though (i.e. politics of choosing and support kenerls)
<quadrispro> ehy abogani, do you need a sponsor again?
<abogani> quadrispro: No thanks anyway!
<quadrispro> you're welcome, feel free to ask me when you need!
<abogani> quadrispro: Thanks (again).
<Scott-work> is anybody objectionable to including the hydrogen drumkits along with hydrogen (bug #528100)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528100 in ubuntustudio "hydrogen-drumkits package not installed by default in Ubuntu Studio" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528100
<Scott-work> I'll let this set for a day or so, but if no one objects then I'll mark it confirmed and see about adding Recommends: hydrogen-drumkits to hydrogen
<jussi01> Scott-work: whyever would we not?
<astraljava> I would agree with jussi01.
<Scott-work> not include the drumkits or not object? :P   if it's the former then I agree also with jussi01 and that's why I filed the bug
<Scott-work> errr s/not/ why not
<Scott-work> on a more serious note, I ask because sometimes there's history I don't know about since I've only been working with ubuntustudio-dev for a couple of months
<astraljava> not including, just to clear any confusion :)
<Scott-work> a good example would be the window selector, I thought it would be immensely useful but apparently there had been discussion not to inlcude it
<astraljava> understood
<Scott-work> i know that I always install the drumkits and i find that annoying, my opinion is that anyone who uses hydrogen either a) installs the drumkits also or b) doesn't know they exist
<astraljava> I don't know that much myself, for instance I have no idea what you're on about re: the window selector :)
<quadrispro> it would be good adding the drumkits to the hydrogen recommended pkgs
<Scott-work> it's like the bar of tabs in firefox that show you the open webpages, but it's for open windows on the desktop
<Scott-work> to swtich between applications you can click the bar that says "hydrogen" or "ardour" and move between them, but if they are not displayed and you minimize one then you can't easily select a tab to open it again
<Scott-work> but you can alt-tab to it though
<astraljava> Oh okay.
<Scott-work> quadrispro: how will the recommends affect if one were to 'apt-get install hydrogen', are they installed automatically?
<Scott-work> it is my understanding that in germinating the seeds during iso building it will grab the recommended files
<astraljava> I think apt-get nowadays installs recommends automatically.
<Scott-work> astraljava: thanks, i thought so also but didn't defintively know
<Scott-work> of course I'm basing this on old web classes that i've read where they always seem to have people install things with the "--no-install-recommends" option (or whatever it is)
<astraljava> That's what I'm thinking too.
<stochastic> Scott-work, I was under the impression that the new 0.9.4 hydrogen has a built-in drumkit downloader, effectively making the hydrogen-drumkits package obsolete (I notice hydrogen-drumkits is still at version 0.9.3x in Lucid)
<Scott-work> hmmm, interesting.  i'll play with it when i get home and see :)
<Scott-work> i remember playing with the drumkit manager before but i think the manager was more for moderating or adjusting each kit rather than the whole library, but i'm not definitive
<Scott-work> hmmm, the 64 bit beta-1 ISO isn't found   http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/3805
<Scott-work> and only i386 ISO available here   http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/lucid/beta-1/
<ScottL> stochastic, I checked into the hydrogen drumkit downloader, you are right!
<ScottL> under instruments -> import library
<ScottL> it brings up a page that you can either import from a file or from the web
<ScottL> my quick, cursory glance showed that more drumkits are available online than in the drumkits package :)
<ScottL> the drumkits available from the hydrogen URL (that is autofilled) is what I meant above ^^^
<ScottL> of course, the user still has to do download the drumkits manually, if the hydrogen recommends the -drumkits package then most are preinstalled....hmmm
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-24
<stochastic> ScottL, I think I'd vote no for the recommends of hydrogen-drumkits unless the drumkits package is updated to 0.9.4 (as this would show the package isn't going to be phased out in the future)
<stochastic> I would however be in favour of adding hydrogen-drumkits to either the ubuntustudio-audio or ubuntustudio-audio-plugins meta packages as we've generally been trying to get Ubuntu Studio to be setup without reliance on a network connection.
<stochastic> though I'm not terribly strongly opinionated either way
<ScottL> stochastic, I think it would be nice to update the package to include the new drumkits available
<ScottL> including hydrogen-drumkits with ubunstudio-audio would be nice because it keeps it in our purview
<ScottL> and I also discovered that you have to download and install the drumkits over the web singularly, which kinda sucks compared to the -drumkits package in that aspect
<ScottL> i'll dig into trying to update the hydrogen-drumkits package this week
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-25
<TheMuso> Hrm. We have mysql on the disks. THat seems odd.
<ScottL> heh, ya that does, doesn't it...i didn't even click to that
<ScottL> really bad feature creep? lol
<ScottL> TheMuso, how would you check to see how it got on the disc?  is this a chance to rdepends?
<TheMuso> ScottL: Yeah rdepends for starters, and also looking at the disk build logs at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive
<ScottL> TheMuso, should we also be worried about the 'unkown ship packages' as well?
<TheMuso> ScottL: What do you mean exactly?
<ScottL> in the .../ubuntustudio/lucid/daily-20100325.log there were several (tens, actually) that said 'unknown ship packages'
<ScottL> shaketracker, tapiir for example
<ScottL> TheMuso, ^^^ 
<ScottL> crap load of language packs also apparently
<ScottL> our seeds have the tapiir package in them and they can't be found?  I'm guessing this is why this happens
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-26
<TheMuso> ScottL: unknown ship, I don't know what that means.
<ScottL> sorry TheMuso, apparently I just assumed you knew everything ;)
<TheMuso> ScottL: heh I am glad I don't. :p
<TheMuso> ScottL: Interesting re jackd not shutting down. Were you using it with any particular application that may have also been running like pulse?
<ScottL> TheMuso, i don't know, to be honest.  i've been jumping around between partitions (rebuilding lv2rack/zynjacku for karmic) and I don't really remember
<ScottL> i didn't even realized that it had happened until the next time I logging into my lucid-test install and apport told me
<TheMuso> heh ok.
<ScottL> i wasn't sure if I should really file the bug or not
<ScottL> themuso, the last time I was using jackd was probably almost a week ago, but i've done other things since (like the plymouth theme) that didn't involve jackd, so I don't really know
<TheMuso> ScottL: ah ok.
 * abogani waves
<abogani> I would want let you notice that linux-realtime (available in my PPA) fix three bugs if linux-rt (at the moment at least but I suspect that the number of fixed bugs will increased).
<abogani> s/if/of
<astraljava> abogani: That's great! How does the bug marking process work these days, do you have to get someone from the bugcontrol team to mark the bugs as fixed, or can you do it by yourself?
 * astraljava is a little out of the ubuntu processes these days... :)
<abogani> astraljava: I can do it by myself (because I'm a member of bugcontrol Team) but I'll don't it because fix packages are present into my PPA and not in Ubuntu archive.
<abogani> I'm not sure how proceed...
<abogani> s/present/available through
<astraljava> abogani: Ahhh, that's right, of course. I suspect you have to go through REVU? Or are these just update packages, in which case someone from the ubuntu-sponsors uploads them?
<abogani> astraljava: In almost three years on one REVU have uploaded my updates.
<abogani> It is the reason of linux-realtime....
<astraljava> abogani: Yeah it can be tough, but the last time I looked, that was the process. It might have changed since then, though. Are there any other MOTUs/sponsors here, except TheMuso? What has been the process for getting Ubuntu Studio packages into the repos during the last two years?
<abogani> astraljava: Luke and Hemmet upload almost all Studio packages.
<astraljava> abogani: Okay, but what about kernel packages, do they need blessings from the kernel team?
<abogani> astraljava: No since Intrepid linux-rt is a universe package so it is under MOTU capella
<astraljava> abogani: Then I assume following the normal routine here should do it. Ask persia or TheMuso to do it, bribe them if you need to. :D
<fritzm_> hi all
<scott-work> hello fritzm_ 
<fritzm_> I downloaded the daily build of 03/17 and installed it - that's what I'm using at the moment.
<fritzm_> One thing I noticed was that when I put an audio CD in, nothing happened. 
<fritzm_> When I clicked on the CD in Nautilus, it gave me a message that sound-juicer was not found.
<scott-work> You can open Audacious from the Audo&Video menu and play the cd
<fritzm_> That's what I did; I was just wondering why it was looking for sound-juicer if it isn't part of the default install.
<scott-work> can you file a bug then please about Nautilus trying to use sound-juicer?  be sure to include which option you tried to use while in nautilus
<scott-work> if you haven't filed a bug report before, this is a good place to start:   https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<fritzm_> OK; I was wondering against what package I list the bug ?
<fritzm_> Nautilus ?
<scott-work> I would file it against Ubuntu Studio.  I say this because I think this might be a MIME-type set within Ubuntu Studio, but...
<scott-work> you might check to see if there are other bugs already listed for Nautilus that have the same problem, then it would be a Nautilus problem probably
<fritzm_> OK I'm checking; 
<scott-work> great :)
<fritzm_> Nope, nothing anywhere in bugzilla about "cd", "audio cd", or "play cd" if I limit the search to Lucid, Lucid beta or Lucid updates
<fritzm_> Looks like it might be Ubuntu Studio then - is sound-juicer a part of the default install in the standard Ubuntu? 
<scott-work> no I believe it is not
<scott-work> oh, sorry, in Ubuntu you said, yes I believe it is for Ubuntu, but not for Ubuntu Studio
<fritzm_> So presumably if I'd installed Ubuntu and then added the Studio package, I wouldn't have run into the problem.
<scott-work> that sound logical
<scott-work> but sound-juicer can be added extremely quickly by typing 'sudo apt-get install sound-juicer' in a terminal (and whithout the little quote thingies)
<scott-work> if you are using Ubuntu Studio and you really, really want sound-juicer (not that this excuses the original problem of it trying to fit sound-juicer)
<fritzm_> No, I didn't want sound-juicer, I wanted to play the CD and expected some player to automatically start when I put the CD in, or at least when I clicked on the CD in Nautilus.
<fritzm_> I see that the ubuntustudio-default-settings has autoplay_cda false, so I suppose that means it wouldn't play the CD automatically.
<scott-work> yes, that is true and I believe there has been some discussion about it at some time
<fritzm_>  I'm happy with it that way; so it's just the issue of what Nautilus does with it. 
<fritzm_> I'm not seeing anything to do with mime types in ubuntustudio-default-settings, and I don't see any other studio packages that look like the deal with mime type settings, so should I file the bug against ubuntustudio-meta ?
<scott-work> hmmm, I don't really know to be honest
<scott-work> but you can either use Ubuntu Studio (as a distribution) or ubuntustudio-meta (as a package) and either will get the dev's attention via email, if it turns out it is not the correct one to report against, it will be changed
<fritzm_> OK, I'll note the exact details and post a bug in the morning; late here now - heading for bed.
<scott-work> doh, he left before I could thank him for taking the time and making the effort to help :(
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-27
<ScottL> TheMuso, i realize that you are probably asleep but I wanted to let you know that I have moderate the ubuntustudio-menu package and it works well
<ScottL> today will be busy but later tonight I hope to have a branch ready to commit
<ScottL> TheMuso, oh, this is regarding applications misplaced within the menu/submenus
<ScottL> i was trying to test the new plymouth theme and it appears that there is a problem in plymouth now, not the theme but the actual plymouth package
<ScottL> apparently there have been numerous problems since alpha3
<ScottL> you may see  bug reports against ubuntustudio-look or ubuntustudio-plymouth-theme but these should all really be against plymouth in my opinion
<ScottL> and of course I filed a bug report against plymouth
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-03-28
<ScottL> persia, your advice about downloading the source package when updated a bzr branch was astoundingly helpful for the ubuntustudio-menu updates :)
<ScottL> apparently there had been several commits and pushes but not merged
<ScottL> i had asked luke (because I expected that he would do the merge) but haven't gotten a response but my direction is to make the changes (which all seem sane) it the three other commits to the source package
<ScottL> but I will keep the package version number the same as the last commit so that it looks sane from a user's perspective (0.12ubunut1 -> 0.13)
<ScottL> i hope i'm doing the right thing and won't have to do it again ;)
<rlameiro> persia: can you help me in here
<rlameiro> I will try to install the BETA1 but on the iso.qa.ubuntu.com tracker, ubuntu studio says is not testing...
<rlameiro> "We are not testing at the moment"
<ScottL> rlameiro,   try here:   http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/lucid/beta-1/
<rlameiro> ScottL: i have the iso
<rlameiro> thas is no the problem
<rlameiro> ScottL: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all
<ScottL> oh, i think reporting is just temporarily deferred because of the bug jam
<ScottL> don't let that stop you from testing though ;)  because you can always file bugs 
<rlameiro> ScottL: i wasnt stopping :D
<rlameiro> i just found that strange
<rlameiro> why cant i make my globaljam at home???
<rlameiro> this is kinda racist :D
<rlameiro> lol
<rlameiro> I just came a cros to a kinda of a bug
<rlameiro> maybe not US related
<rlameiro> is about the restricted drivers installer, concerning the broadcom wireles druiver
<rlameiro> at firstboot it gave an error
<rlameiro> i neede to reboot in order to jockey download and install the restricted drivers
<rlameiro> !bug #550503 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 550503 in jockey "at first boot, Jockey cant activate the broadcom driver" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/550503
<rlameiro> what can be changed during beta1?
<rlameiro> its just bug fixes or can some things be changed
<rlameiro> for example ubuntustudio controls deb still depends on libglade
<TheMuso> rlameiro: I thought work was done to fix that. It may not have been uploaded.
<rlameiro> TheMuso, I made it
<rlameiro> and the new gui.xml is there
<TheMuso> rlameiro: ah ok.
<rlameiro> but the deb package still list glade as a dependency
<rlameiro> is it only change the files on the deb folder of the branch?
<TheMuso> rlameiro: I guess the fixes either haven't been uploaded yet, or the deps weren't fixed. I'll ahve a look tonight, got a busy day today so won't get a chance to look.
<rlameiro> no i can do it and then do a merge, just wanted to know how
<rlameiro> TheMuso, should i change the /debian/control file?
<rlameiro> it is not pressing, i think libglade is still on lucid so it is not a big problem
<TheMuso> rlameiro: right I'll still take a look nayway
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-21
<scott-work> i'm baaaaaaack :)
<falktx> hey
<scott-work> abogani: either this afternoon or tomorrow's i will begin again with the -lowlatency kernel
<scott-work> abogani: i believe i have to correct the version number and use the tilde "~" in lieu of the dash or minus sign to correct what i had done
<scott-work> hi falktx, how are you?
<scott-work> ailo, paultag:  i'm guessing that the -controls update isn't going to happen for natty
<scott-work> i'll talk to luke about getting it out of natty unless someone has a very strong objection
<falktx> scott-work: good, I'm working on rt-kernel drivers again (nvidia should be working by now)
<falktx> scott-work: what about cadence?
<scott-work> ailo, paultag: the good news is that we have _plenty_ of time to get the -lowlatency kernel in the repository now for natty+1 (ocelette ?) for the -controls update
<falktx> scott-work: I can work really hard on it, if you promise me it will be included in US
<scott-work> falktx: i don't know at this point, i'll need to refresh my knowledge of cadence lately
<falktx> scott-work: http://repo.or.cz/w/cadence.git
<scott-work> falktx: i have seen screenshots from before, but that was probably three months ago and i think you've been working on it pretty heavy during that time
<scott-work> heh, you, ailo, and abogani are going to drag me kicking and screaming into the 21 century with 'git'
<falktx> hehe
<falktx> scott-work: the GUIs itself don't change much, but there was a lot of bug-fixing
<scott-work> i got pretty comfortable with bzr and so i didn't really worry about learning more about git, but apparently the rest of the world doesn't revolve around ubuntu :P
<scott-work> falktx: cool
<falktx> scott-work: you should just try them
<falktx> git clone git://repo.or.cz/cadence.git
<falktx> make
<scott-work> falktx: probably next week i'll look at it, but we need to also see how this contrasts with what ailo and paul have been doing
<falktx> scott-work: yep, I'll be here waiting
<scott-work> okay, thanks falktx for the instructions :)  you've just increase the chances i'll succeed dramatically
<falktx> lol
<scott-work> actually i'm starting to get git
<scott-work> heh, i made a funny
<scott-work> hi holstein :)
<falktx> scott-work: build depends: python-qt4-devel pyqt4-dev-tools ladspa-sdk dssi-dev libasound2-dev
<falktx> scott-work: runtime depends: libjack0 python-rdflib python-qt4-dbus python-qt4-gl jack-capture
<falktx> scott-work: my patchbay can now use GL for rendering
<ailo> falktx, I think paultags idea was to make a controls application that was pluginable
<falktx> ailo: extensions to the control app?
<falktx> hm...
<ailo> falktx, My app so far was just a hack that was intended for Natty only
<ailo> falktx, So, my idea was to make something like an indicator app called ubuntustudio-controls, and then let any app that wants to act as a plugin be called utc--<name>. That could be anything, like qjackctl.
<ailo> falktx, Main part of it would be a system preferences plugin
<ailo> falktx, But, I haven't really started coding anything yet.
<falktx> ailo: that gives me some ideas...
<ailo> falktx, I was going to use GTK, but I don't have any problems with QT, though I don't see why the two couldn't be mixed, even.
<falktx> i would prefer qt
<falktx> qt plays nice with gtk, but gtk does not play nice with qt/kde
<scott-work> the new kernel patch that improves performance in the stock kernel is apparently in Ubuntu and Fedora :  http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/222185/speedy_wonder_patch_debuts_in_new_linux_kernel.html
<scott-work> this might seem ignorant or niave but i wonder if which kernel version it will be in and if we will see any performance boosts for latencies
<ailo> falktx, I really have too little experience with QT and KDE to know the difference. I guess there could be two versions of a main app, if done the way I propose
<scott-work> i realize it's in 2.6.38 mind you, just not what dot verison
<ailo> falktx, One nice thing would be that the indicator icon could be activated by any plugin, like go red for xruns, or go yellow for system warnings and so on.
<ailo> scott-work, It should be in all of them, though it might not be activated
<falktx> ailo: that could be a specific app
<ailo> scott-work, As far as I have been able to tell, it makes it easier to watch Youtube while compiling from source.
<falktx> ailo: I already have some tools, your idea is good for a new one
<falktx> ailo: lol, compiling and watching videos
<scott-work> ailo: well then, that's a success!  we should make a advert for ubuntu studio and tell everyone how good this kernel is
<scott-work> just kidding :P
<ailo> scott-work, I'm sure I'm missing something. The link you posted seems to adress other enhancements too.
<ailo> Ah, he quit. I was just trying out Cadence
<ailo> falktx, Was just trying Cadence
<ailo> falktx, On Natty. Perhaps easier on another system?
<ailo> falktx, dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.jackaudio.service was not provided by any .service files
<falktx> ailo: you need to use jackdbus, not jackd
<ailo> falktx, Ok.
<falktx> ailo: please stop jackd and restart the app
 * falktx will soon remove jackd support from his jack2 PPA package
<ailo> falktx, Why jackdbus only? I must be missing some packages. I was able to start cadence, and start jack, but not configure. All other options were grayed out
<falktx> ailo: cadence itself is the most poor app
<falktx> ailo: try other tools like catia, claudia, carla, xycontroller
<falktx> still no readme in there though
<falktx> for 'carla' (the plugin host), run 'make carla' first
<falktx> ^ not build by default, still very unstable
<ailo> falktx, Ok. About Cadence, I find the window is too large for my little screen. I would hide some options in an advanced tab, while keeping only the essential stuff on the main page.
<falktx> yep, todo soon
<scott-work> ailo: do you still advocate removing -controls from natty?
<ailo> scott-work, Yes. How about earlier releases? I think on Lucid, only firewire settings are right.
<ailo> scott-work, While 10.10 should be all wrong, just like 11.04.
<scott-work> i'm not sure at this point, i'll need to talk to someone about what/how to do things
<scott-work> obviously i would like to make sure natty is correct first since it's not released yet
<scott-work> secondly, i think we should evaluate for the last LTS verison (lucid)
<ailo> scott-work, It would have nice to update those. At least make sure on Lucid that app edits the right file. That should be easy enought to do
<scott-work> right
<ailo> scott-work, It would just mean editing one line or so in the source code
<scott-work> and i'm least worried about 10.10 - if we ignored it or sent an email to the mailing list then i wouldn't loose sleep
<scott-work> i'll start talking to luke later today about going forward then for information and see if he would be agreeable to remove -controls for natty then
<ailo> scott-work, There are at least two other apps that are not needed. Both PA related
<ailo> scott-work, I have to double check, though
<ailo> scott-work, Since I use Ubuntu mainly, I seem to forge Ubuntustudio Desktop functions differently
<scott-work> ailo: okay
<ailo> scott-work, What's the deal with wireless? Would network-manager still add any problems to Ubuntustudio? I hear it is less then before. Don't know about firewire
<scott-work> ailo: are you experiencing problems with wireless?
<scott-work> ailo: i expected less problems with network-manager than the previous gnome-network-admin
<scott-work> to clarify:  i expect less complaints about getting wireless working with network-manager
<ailo> scott-work, Not really. My wireless driver may be bad, but I don't think network-manager is causing whatever problems I have.
<scott-work> however, i also wouldn't be surprised if someone complained that using network-manager increased intermittent xruns
<ailo> scott-work, I haven't had any problems with network-manager. Doesn't many audio distros include that? If we investigate that, perhaps we could consider adding it to the mix?
<scott-work> ailo: we already include network-manager as a replacement for gnome-network-admin
<scott-work> many, many users complained about gnome-network-admin being difficult to set up wireless during installation (and post-installation for that matter)
<scott-work> effectively, many users simply couldn't use wireless directly after installation
<scott-work> they would have to use the DVD as a repository and install network-manager which had been included on disc but not installed
<ailo> scott-work,  I was just trying Lucid. You mean since then, it is much easier?
<scott-work> or download network-manager or one of the other managers and put it onto their machine
<scott-work> ailo: natty is the first one to include network manager
<ailo> scott-work, Ok. Good. Then that is already decided.
<ailo> Or, perhaps an app could be created on which ubuntustudio-controls could be a plugin.
<scott-work> ailo: i'm not sure i understand your defintion of 'plugin' in this instance
<scott-work> do you mean for previous version of ubuntustudio or for going forward
<scott-work> and what use case would you need this
<ailo> scott-work, Some of the many ideas that have been for ubuntustudio-controls could perhaps be divided into different applications. It would make it easy for users to find all of that from an indicator menu. 
<ailo> scott-work, The main use for ubuntustudio-controls is to help users adjust their system
<holstein> o/ 
<ailo> Whatever is done on top of that, could be made into "plugin" that you can install, and add to that menu, if you want
<ailo> I'm not of the opinion that we should add session management, and PA jack bridge as default components of ubuntustudio-controls. I am not against including those as options. Exactly how that should be categorized, divided into apps or menus and tabs, I don't know. 
<ailo> scott-work, A plugin could be as simple as just including an application starter in a menu. At least, I think it would be nice for some apps, like a jack control app, to change the icon color for xruns and so on.
<ailo> I'm just throwing ideas around at this point, and I was meaning to start working on a new ubuntustudio-controls, based on the work I did so far, but turning it into an indicator app. Also, I would want to include options for checking the system at startup, as my script did.
<scott-work> ailo:  okay, i think i start to understand
<scott-work> -controls would provide the framework and the indicator menu in the panel
<scott-work> and as the plugins are installed they are available in the indicator menu
<scott-work> i like the concept :)
<falktx> back
<holstein> scott-work: boing
<holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/739628?comments=all
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 739628 in Ubuntu Studio "STUDIO could do with an Ethernet OK ICON and the System should check "Ethernet OK", more often." [Undecided,New]
<holstein> could you or someone look at that
<scott-work> looking
<holstein> and mark it 'wishlist' if you agree
<scott-work> we are including network-manager with natty now, which is what ubuntu desktop uses
<holstein> scott-work: COOL
<scott-work> and i think it has a pretty good network icon already
<holstein> i'll re-comment there on the bug
<scott-work> so this may not be an issue then
<holstein> nah, that'll totally do it
<scott-work> you might wait to comment until we verify it in natty
<holstein> scott-work: maybe mark it fixed
<holstein> scott-work: OK
<scott-work> i say that because we do funny things with the panel with the icon set, etc
<scott-work> well not "funny" but idfferent
<scott-work> different
<holstein> not funny = haha
<scott-work> so i would like to make sure it beheaves like expected, i'll do that tonight while i'm working on the -lowlatency kernel
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-22
<ScottL> bug #726199
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 726199 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "[natty] ubuntustudio-menu does not show all applications in correct menus" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/726199
<ScottL> anybody do a full install of ubuntu studio lately?  did the plymouth theme work or was it a light blue screen?
<ScottL> holstein, it looks like the network indicator in natty already indicates when the network is unplugged (at least it did for me on my alpha3 install)
<ScottL> at least it think it was alpha 3 install
<ailo> ScottL, I've had the plymoth fail after some upgrade. I should install the latest to see how things work.
<ailo> Hey abogani
<abogani> ailo: Hi
<ailo> I haven't been testing the kernels for a while. I took out my wireless card, so I tried quckly now, but it seems I can still get a few random xruns
<ailo> It didn't happen while the computer was idle. Last time when I was using the browser.
<ailo> But I suppose it could be anything
<ailo> I should test on other systems. I compiled a kernel for Debian using vanilla source, and it seemed to work a little better on another PC. I should try different things on this one.
<ailo> I'm currently running on Ubuntu, and it's using a lot of memory. I should switch to Ubuntustudio to do some testing there as well.
<abogani> For avoid x-runs completely we have to use -realtime kernel.
<ailo> Well, I can use this kernel on a higher latency setting, and still get good enough latency for production use, so I'm quite happy with this kernel in that sense, but I suppose for so many other hardware a -realtime will be a big help.
<abogani> ailo: In any case your approach is the best: -lowlatency is more stable, updated, secure and compatible.
<ailo> Hey T0rCh_raony , what's up?
<T0rCh_raony> hey ailo
<T0rCh_raony> still didn't had time to work on the indicator applet, but i will take a look this week
<ailo> T0rCh_raony, No hurry. No one has decided on anything either, so it would just be an example application. falktx has been working on some software for KXStudio which has similar functions.
<T0rCh_raony> cool, do you have his repository ?
<ailo> Let's see..
<ailo> T0rCh_raony, git://repo.or.cz/cadence.git
<ailo> T0rCh_raony,  build depends: python-qt4-devel pyqt4-dev-tools ladspa-sdk dssi-dev libasound2-dev
<T0rCh_raony> ok
<ailo> T0rCh_raony, runtime depends: libjack0 python-rdflib python-qt4-dbus python-qt4-gl jack-capture
<T0rCh_raony> hey falktx
<ailo> T0rCh_raony, You can look in the make file to see what apps there are. Do make, and make install.
<T0rCh_raony> ok
<ailo> T0rCh_raony, And the app Carla needs to be compiled separately, make Carla
<falktx> T0rCh_raony: step are actually "make" and "make carla" <- unstable app
<falktx> apps usable so far:
<falktx> - audio_test_plugin
<falktx> - catarina (canvas test)
<falktx> - catia (jack patchbay)
<falktx> - claudia (jack patchbay+ladish gui)
<falktx> - carla (multi-plugin host)
<falktx> - xycontroller
<falktx> small tools:
<falktx> - jacksettings
<falktx> - logs
<falktx> - render
<falktx> and that'is it
<falktx> to run them:
<T0rCh_raony> cool
<falktx> python src/<app-name>.py
<T0rCh_raony> looks promissing
<falktx_> some this network sucks...
<falktx_> please say again
<ailo> Actually, I think the runtime depend should be libjack-jack2-0
<ScottL> abogani, the -lowlatency kernel built in my ppa last night :)
<abogani> ScottL: :-)
<ailo> scott-work, I installed us-natty alpha 3 right now. I think at least two tasksels are not working now. I wasn't able to identify which ones. I could reinstall on Virtualbox later to find out.
<ailo> Also, I must have forgotten before, but installing from usb is no problem, if using unetbootin, but this is perhaps known already.
<holstein> ailo: yeah?
<holstein> no complaints about where the install media is ?
<holstein> thats great :)
<ailo> holstein, Yeah, it works pretty smoothly. I just choose the iso, and make the usb.
<scott-work> ailo: that's interesting about the tasksel
<holstein> theres a really nice reporting option
<holstein> in the installer
<holstein> makes a webserver
<scott-work> when alpha 3 was released i installed all and they worked then :(
<holstein> for you to se the log of what failed
<ailo> holstein, How does that work?
<scott-work> ailo: but that is good news about installing from usb though :)
<holstein> cjwatson got me hip to it last time i was trying to sort out what taskselect failed
<holstein> ailo: i'll have to get it in front of me
<holstein> BUT, i remember...
<holstein> its in the alternate installer list
<holstein> where is says like 'partition disks'
<holstein> something about 'view logs' ?
<holstein> near te bottom i remember*
<ailo> Ok. I'll try installing on Virtualbox later today. This time I tried installing all tasksels, and taking one out each time it failed, but that didn't help, so that's why I thought it must be at least two that doesn't work.
<scott-work> ailo: you can also see:  /var/log/install/syslog
<scott-work> if you can get to tty2
<ailo> scott-work, Only during install?
<ailo> I seem to remember dropping to shell is not so hard. Is the same? Ctrl - Alt - F1?
<scott-work> ailo: if you can get the install to finish then you can get to it however you want
<scott-work> but yeah, you may need to drop to shell during install to see what the error is
<scott-work> i _think_ i'm done with my current natty install so might try to reinstall it this weekend
<ailo> I've been on regular Ubuntu too much, so I figured, I need to get the hang of the US Desktop.
 * ailo rebooting..
<ailo> ScottL, holstein: Did have a strange experience when booting into US alpha 3 first time. ubuntustudio-desktop wasn't installed.
<ailo> When I booted in, instead of coming to a terminal prompt, the screen just went to sleep, and I had to do Ctrl -> Alt -> Del to reboot
<T0rCh_raony> something weird here ...I like to use wicd for a thousand reasons, when I was trying to remove networkmanager it was asking me to remove ubuntustudio-desktop together, what this package contains ?
<ailo> I installed ubuntustudio-desktop, and after that I was able to boot into the desktop
<ailo> T0rCh_raony, ubuntustudio-desktop is just a met-package, so there's no worry
<ailo> meta-package
<T0rCh_raony> I know cause it didn't cause any damage to the system :)
<ailo> It depends on all the packages that you need for ubuntustudio-desktop, so installing that package, all of the dependencies will be installed.
<T0rCh_raony> oh, I see
<ailo> ScottL, Also, my screen wasn't looking good. I know from a previous installation that I had problems with corrupted graphics. I probably should have reacted then, but there was a lot going on with the standard Ubuntu Desktop at the time
<ailo> ScottL, This time, only part of the screen was used.
<ailo> Installing nvidia drivers solved it
<ailo> scott-work, Just had some problems with the post-install of US alpha 3
<scott-work> doh
<scott-work> wait, "post-install" ?  which part then
<ailo> scott-work, ubuntustudio-desktop hadn't been installed.
<ailo> It didn't boot into prompt even, but from recovery mode, I was able to install ubuntustudio-desktop. After that, I was able to boot to desktop, but only part of the screen was in use. Installing nvidia drivers made the screen look normal
<ailo> I'm doing a new install on Virtualbox now, in case there was something strange with the usb stick
<ailo> T0rCh_raony, Which version did you install. Was it a daily build?
<T0rCh_raony> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/natty/alpha-3/
<ailo> Ok, so I can confirm that installing from usb stick was maybe not such a good idea after all
<scott-work> ailo: oh, you were isntalling from usb with that....hmmmmm, interesting
<scott-work> but still, it would be wicked to get usb install working though
<ailo> Even the tasksel looked different. Seems like all the tasksels are working too
<ailo> I suppose getting a usb installation working shouldn't be that far away, since at least the base system installs.
<ailo> scott-work, Have you talked with MacInnis, or what's his name? Our art man..
<scott-work> briefly, i'm about 1/2 way through with announcing him on the mailing list, forums, et al
<scott-work> work and home are still pretty jumping for me
<scott-work> even though i managed to get some other issues resolve for more time
<ailo> scott-work, Did you look at his art? I checked out his PPA before, and installed the theme
<scott-work> yeah?  what did you think?
<scott-work> i've looked at his website, both personal with music/videos, and dream studio
<scott-work> i think he's a helluva creative guy with some talent
<ailo> I'm not totally crazy about the theme, though. I would want to raise the bar a little for Ubuntu Studio. 
<ailo> I like that there are three versions, ambience light, ambience and ambience dark, or something like that
<ailo> I was agreeing with him on the strategy, to try use Ubuntu's theme as base, but pimp it and make it look Ubuntu Studio.
<ailo> I've already been working on Humanity based Icons, so perhaps I might as well try get those finished as an alternative.
<ailo> It's funny how installing ubuntustudio-desktop afterwards gave a different default setup for panels and such
<ailo> I mean, even before any desktop had been installed
<scott-work> ailo: i would like to develop multiple themes and let some group, either focus group or user base as a whole, decide which one to install as default
<ailo> scott-work, Sounds like a good idea
<scott-work> i would REALLY like to develop that black and grey theme we looked at before
<scott-work> in my opinion that is the best looking dark theme i have ever seen
<ailo> scott-work, I guess there doesn't need to be just one. But only one can be installed by default. I like dark, but it has to be functional. Otherwise, I would at least only admire it, but never use it. Haven't used that one, but that's pretty much how I've felt about most dark themes.
<ailo> Don't let me close any doors, though :P
<ailo> scott-work, There's no Desktop volume control. Don't we need the indicator-applet?
<scott-work> i would like to add it, yes
<scott-work> i've always had to go to pavu control to set the volume
<scott-work> i'm not sure what is involved however because i believe we are using a gconf settings file to set the panels up
<ailo> scott-work, pavu control would be unneeded once there is a volume control. There's also padevchooser which is outdated
<scott-work> if you would figure out which applet is needed i will see about updating the gconf file
<ailo> I'll fool around with it.
<ailo> scott-work, Just quickly testing on Virtualbox. For some reason, and I think this happened before, gtk isn't working properly. But, about the indicator applet. After updating the system, there was no problem adding it.
<ailo> The indicator applet is apart of the standard set of applets already when doing a fresh install.
<scott-work> i'll try adding it to my natty install tonight then
<scott-work> i think this file is where it is set:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio/files
<scott-work> ubuntustudio-panel-settings.entries
<scott-work> i'll see if i can find it first, make a copy, add the indicator, then diff the two files and see what pops out
<ailo> scott-work, I've only tried copying a custom made file. I should see if that is enough to create a new file.
<scott-work> at least that's the plan
<ailo> I mean, after adding something, you copy the file
<ailo> Don't know if something else is added to that, but could be worth a shor
<ailo> shot*
<ailo> I'm talking unclearly as usual. Just to be clear: Could be, if you add the indicator, that the file in home directory just needs to be saved.
<scott-work> copy the file first because when i add the indicator i think it will change that file
<scott-work> i'm hoping that's what happens
<scott-work> oh, i think i know what you are saying
<scott-work> i can't use the new, update file to update the package, i won't be uploading a brand new file to the repos
<ailo> Yeah, I'm not making a lot of sense :). After you add something, could be you just need to save the file that was edited in home directory
<scott-work> but to update the package in the repos i need to have a diff file of just the changes
<scott-work> the diff file will be patched to the package in the repos
<ailo> I guess, the default file will be intact somewhere in /usr/share/* don't remember where it is. Then, after adding the indicator, just make a diff between that and the file in home directory, wherever it was. Don't know if that will work, cause I don't know if something more is added to the file in home, like some additional info.
<ailo> scott-work, No, it doesn't seem to work, I think.
<ailo> scott-work, http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/man8/update-gconf-defaults.8.html
<ailo> I was looking for some tools to generate default gconf settings
<ailo> Anyway, I have to sleep..
<scott-work> goodnight and thanks
<scott-work> heh, that link reminds me of the install file under /debian
<scott-work> ubuntustudio-panel-settings.entries /usr/share/gconf/schemas/
<scott-work> it installs that entry file to that directory
<TheMuso> c
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-23
<ailo> scott-work, I was a little tired yesterday. Don't what was up with my brain. Thought I'd make up today by trying to find out how all of that gconf stuff works. I'm sure someone here knows, but I just wanted to learn anyway. I haven't found any documentation yet that seems to cover everything. Did you get anywhere with it?
<scott-work> somewhat, i found the file that was installed, but it apparently didn't change when i added the indicator
<scott-work> the file appears to be a vehicle to import settings and then discarded
<scott-work> i'm probably wrong but it will probably also require talking to someone else to make sure how things are done
<ailo> scott-work, The file that changes is in home directory, ~/.gconf, but the files in /usr/share/gconf , at least the default files seem to be used to generate other files. Don't think the files in /usr/share/* change at all.
<ailo> I'm not all clear about it. I don't like reading xml either :P
<scott-work> okay, that helps
<scott-work> maybe if i can find what changes in the ~/.gconf maybe i can see about adding that to the one that is installed
<ailo> scott-work, I suspect those files are different, but I'm not sure.
<scott-work> me neither
<scott-work> :P
<scott-work> ailo: do you remember if the guy who filed the bug mentioning the "network indicator" installed from DVD or "upgraded" from vanilla ubuntu?
<scott-work> i'm wondering about this because my rather stock ubuntu studio install for testing natty already had a network icon in the top panel
<scott-work> and when i pulled the network cable it added a red X to the icon after 15 seconds or so
<ailo> scott-work, I have had strange experiences from installing so far. On the install I did on my PC yesterday, from usb stick, it was bound to be strange, and there I have the indicator-applet working, but network-manager has no icon.
<ailo> However, on Virtualbox the icon shows fine, but the gtk theme is screwed up
<ailo> Which is unrelated, but only shows, I haven't had a clean install yet
<ailo> scott-work: The network-manager icon should show in notification-tray, but when adding the indicator-applet it will move there.
<ailo> I should do another install from DVD this time.
<ailo> scott-work, I've been thinking about ram memory too. It quickly goes up these days. 2GB seems on 32bit seems like a minimum these days, even on Ubuntu Studio, though Ubuntustudio is a lot better with that. The indicator applet adds another 20MB, which is not the end of the world
<ailo> On regular Ubuntu, 2GB is barely enough for me, when using firefox and thunderbird. 
<abogani> Present systems are more and more similar to vampires.
<abogani> ScottL scott-work: ping
<scott-work> abogani: pong
<abogani> scott-work: May I ask you a favor? It is a two minutes long activity.
<scott-work> abogani: absolutely :)
<abogani> Could you check my just sent email and rid of the big mistakes?
<abogani> scott-work: ^
<abogani> .
<abogani> scott-work:  By the way please let me know when (if ever) you'll feel comfortable with -lowlatency maintenance. When that time arrives I'll let you that kernel and I'll return to work on the -realtime one.
<abogani> scott-work: Are you still there?
<scott-work> sorry, got pulled into an 1+ hour meeting
<scott-work> i would be happy to assist you with the email
<scott-work> i should have it back to you within the hour
<scott-work> as to the maintenance, i would love to assume the responsibility of the -lowlatency kernel
<scott-work> although i fear that i'm still very, very ignorant of all that will be entailed
<scott-work> abogani: ^^^
<abogani> scott-work You shouldn't fear of it you aren't alone. I'll surely help you if needed and I suppose that persia'll do the same.
<scott-work> abogani: email sent back, let me know if you any changes i made do not make sense or they do not convey your original intent, i would be happy to revise anything you request
<scott-work> also, thank you for the offer of support for the -lowlatency as i expect to need it ;)
<paultag> hey all
<paultag> finally have internet again
<paultag> it's been a long 3 weeks :)
<paultag> how goes?
<scott-work> hi paul!  we thought you disappeared ;)   what happened?
<scott-work> we all took bets on what had happened to you, i put $20 down on ruthless alien aduction
<scott-work> paultag: ^^^
<paultag> hey scott-work :)
<paultag> scott-work: hahahaha
<paultag> scott-work: my roommate went to Germany, and time-warrner refused to transfer it
<paultag> scott-work: so the cut the line, then had to come and remove the hardware, then after that let me set up an account, and had to wait another week for them to install it
<paultag> scott-work: three fucking weeks
<scott-work> wow, that's mad crazy
<scott-work> and probably very, very frustrating
<paultag> scott-work: yeah, it was really sucky
<paultag> scott-work: was someone ready to kill off the work I had hanging?
<paultag> or did we fail to hit our deadline?
<paultag> (or do we still have time)
<scott-work> i don't think ailo made any other significant progress while you were gone
<paultag> shit
<paultag> scott-work: OK, it's on my todo list :)
<scott-work> i don't know that we have time left to get it in
<paultag> scott-work: are we beta yet?
<paultag> I've not seen any notifications :(
<scott-work> not beta yet
<paultag> scott-work: I think since it closes a RC bug we can get it into beta last minute
<paultag> but not mid-beta or rc
<paultag> I think
<scott-work> we are at beta + a week
<paultag> oh crap
<scott-work> i.e. one week till beta 1 comes out
<scott-work> paultag: don't stress, if we dont' get it out it's okay
<paultag> ailo: is -controls stable enough to use?
<paultag> scott-work: if I let this pass, it'll be the first deadline i've missed by a cycle :)
<scott-work> i talked to luke about SRU'ing it into natty even if we pull it from the seeds
<paultag> scott-work: oh, aye
<scott-work> if you get it that would be great, but circumstances happen and considering it has been broken for several releases it's not going to make things fall down and blow up :P
<paultag> scott-work: ACK :) -- I'm going to strap a natty image to test on, but if -controls is stable and it works, it'll just be a matter of fixing up the debian/ folder and getting it sponsored
<paultag> it FTBFS right now, IIRC
<paultag> I kicked it to a PPA hours before my net was cut
<paultag> and I remember it failing
<scott-work> oh yeah, i remember that too now
<paultag> so hopefully it's just an error on my part in debian/
<paultag> worst case is the code actually fails to install
<ailo> scott-work, paultag: The -controls code will probably not need any work, while the glade-file needs to be polished with text. I'd like for us to test it and have some opinions before we decide on anything.
<ailo> It's hackish, because of the shell scripts I think, but I'm fairly sure it's not buggy by design, which of course remains to be seen.
<ailo> paultag, Good to see you again, btw!
<paultag> ailo: <3
<paultag> ailo: I'll be back in a few hours, in class now
<scott-work> ailo: i sent out the notice for macinnis being the new art lead
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-24
 * abogani waves all
<ailo> abogani: Perhaps next kernel will make -realtime less necessary? http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org/msg11801.html
<abogani> ailo: Perhaps but I don't think so. The main component still out.
<raboof> what's the main component?
<abogani> rtmutex
<abogani> ailo: we could move forward and use the .39 for our -lowlatency kernel....
<abogani> ScottL: ^^^^
<abogani> scott-work: ^^^^^^^^
<scott-work> abogani:  i have to check the logs, i must have logged in after you (or whomever) typed
<macinnisrr> scott-work: you mentioned that it's not important that things be packaged correctly, but I thought I'd let you know that with Dream Studio, I'm using a PPA now, so I've got the packaging thing pretty well under wraps with regards to both creating source packages and building them correctly (as far as easy stuff like themes anyway, I'm having trouble packaging new binary images with cinelerra, but that's a whole othe
<macinnisrr> r story. Anyway, I digress, what I'm wondering is: what's the exact process for getting an UbuntuStudio package accepted into the main Ubuntu repos?
<scott-work> macinnisrr: to be honest, it's usually easier to get packages into debian first :P
<scott-work> but for ubuntu specific we will have to go through REVU
<scott-work> !REVU
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<scott-work> macinnisrr: that's a good link to look at
<scott-work> BUT, i think we will not have to do this perhaps
<scott-work> since we already have ubuntustudio-general-settings (or whatever hte package is called) we can just update it
<scott-work> or ubuntustudio-look
<scott-work> this is a much easier process because we are only constrained by what time during the release cycle we are in, because you wouldn't want to do a major update to a apckage right before release candidate (RC)
<scott-work> abogani: that sounds good to update the kerenel version for -lowlatency
 * scott-work going to lunch now
<macinnisrr> scott-work: well, for instance I have some new themes built that I'd like to add to ubuntustudio-theme, but to keep the current one default, so we can get user feedback. How would I do that?
<scott-work> macinnisrr: we would probably include them in the package under one of the directories and use the file called "install" which would copy them to the directory on the user's system
<macinnisrr> scott-work: absolutely, I'm just wondering how to submit.
<scott-work> macinnisrr: the general process to update one of our packages would be thus:
<scott-work> the person updating would download the source code...say "apt-get source foo"
<scott-work> then make the changes as appropriate
<scott-work> test it
<scott-work> then in the source directory make a debdiff from the *.dsc files
<scott-work> this diff file can then be uploaded to the repository which would update the package
<scott-work> the permissions to upload to the repository is available to all
<macinnisrr> scott-work: where's the repository?
<macinnisrr> REVU?
<scott-work> it should all be hosted in launchpad but is readily available from the command lines with the "dput" command
<scott-work> macinnisrr: no, REVU is a separate process and I believe it has a different storage that the repositories, but i think things can be moved over easily enough
<scott-work> in REVU they review the package to make sure it follows the debian (and ubuntu) packaging guide and i think also makes sure it doesn't have any security vulnerabilities
<macinnisrr> scott-work: ok, I see ubuntustudio in Launchpad, but what exactly do i use for the address to dput to?
<scott-work> well, dput is used to push the package to the repository (or your own ppa, for example)
<scott-work> if you wanted to get the package from ubuntustudio then you use "apt-get source <packagename>"
<scott-work> less quotes
<scott-work> also you can update packages using bzr, but this just affects the package as stored in launchpad and doesn't exactly touch package in the repositories
<scott-work> i'm not exactly clear how this exactly stands from a technical standpoint, only from a layman perspective of seeing it done
<scott-work> there have been cases where changes/updates were pushed to bzr for ubuntustudio-menu but they didn't make it to the repository
<scott-work> it was during another update that I did that i noticed they hadn't been done yet, so i moderated my changelog file to include those changes
<macinnisrr> scott-work: I understand packaging, source and dput (but thanks for being verbose - I sure could have used these instructions 3 months ago :-)). I'm just looking for where to send the package. With my ppa I use dput ppa:dreamstudio/audio-testing <source.changes>. what do i enter instead of ppa:dreamstudio/audio-testing.
<macinnisrr> haha. I didn't even think about the implication of a colon followed by a "d"
<scott-work> macinnisrr:  i don't have rights to upload to the repositories yet, i've kinda been putting off submitting for them
<macinnisrr> scott-work: aha. Is it quite a process?
<scott-work> so what i've been doing is filing a bug, attaching the diff to the bug, and asking TheMuso or persia to upload them for me
<scott-work> macinnisrr: not really, but it's just _another_ thing to do
<scott-work> but, i've got to fill out the form, wait for a meeting, then if approved learn how to upload, which repositories i have rights to or which packages, etc, etc,
<macinnisrr> scott-work: Could I get those rights (for the purpose of updating theme packages, wallpaper, plymouth splash -which incidentally doesn't work in natty as it is currently, etc.)?
<scott-work> i can always go to someone on #ubuntu-motu and get help
<scott-work> macinnisrr: possibly, but i think they prefer to have someone work with a "mentor" (my choice of words), someone from #ubuntu-motu who can vouch for the person, first to develop good work practices and determine if they are not doing anythign studpid habitually
<scott-work> well, stupid or dangerous i suppose
<scott-work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess
<scott-work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<scott-work> these links have information about the process and the application, if you are interested
<macinnisrr> scott-work: right, I had seen something mentioned about that. Well, it's understandable really with a project as large as Ubuntu. I'll maybe get on #ubuntu-motu and find someone there to work with. And thanks for the links, I'll check them out right now
<scott-work> macinnisrr: i shoud probably get more onto #ubuntu-motu and develop relationships there rather than rely on TheMuso and persia as i do, but again, it's just *another* _something_ to do :P
<scott-work> and they all seem to take more time than i expect ;)
<macinnisrr> scott-work: by the way, I found your proposed ubuntustudio logo designs while surfing the web, and really liked them. I've come up with a couple variations, and they look great. Will post in a sec once I've uploaded them.
<scott-work> super cool :)
<scott-work> i'm not much of a graphic artists, but i do come up with ideas every now and then...i'm just glad someone with ability is taking inspiration from them :)
<macinnisrr> scott-work: https://picasaweb.google.com/macinnisrr/UbuntuStudio?feat=directlink - you'll find new screenshots from the updated theme, new icons, and the aforementioned logo. I've also completed the login screen and plymouth-theme, but I'll need to boot a VM to take screenshots of those.
<macinnisrr> Once I have those two screenshots, I'm planning on making an UbuntStudio Design blog, and I'll post the entire rational, guidelines, and shots of all these screens for the public.
<scott-work> macinnisrr: those look good, this one is still one of my favorites - https://picasaweb.google.com/macinnisrr/UbuntuStudio?feat=directlink#5587719364524194658
<scott-work> i like this one as well https://picasaweb.google.com/macinnisrr/UbuntuStudio?feat=directlink&fgl=true&pli=1#5584001014291760322
<scott-work> but i'm wondering if we could make the background colors for the ubttons (close, min, max) not use the orange color
<scott-work> hold on, i'll find a link
<scott-work> http://ubuntu-art.org/content/preview.php?preview=3&id=132875&file1=132875-1.PNG&file2=132875-2.jpg&file3=132875-3.jpg&name=Ambiance+dark
<scott-work> i like how they use dark grey and light grey for the buttons, like on the rhythmbox window, instead of using organ
<scott-work> orange
<scott-work> not dictating we do this, just asking what you think about it
<macinnisrr> scott-work: the first one you linked was the most similar to the current ubuntustudio, which is exactly why I did it that way. The second link is an older screen, I've since made all the themes monochromatic, and I'm planning on doing the same with the metacity, exactly like the screenshot you posted. I had initially used the orange-ish buttons because unity (which I'm currently testing) had orange buttons when maxi
<macinnisrr> mized, and it didn't look very fluid to have them different. Since that time, unity now respects your theme, so I've gone with monochrome window buttons, but you'll notice they're different than the current ones - https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KczhsSHpraaEO-BFwVGVtg?feat=directlink. These match the buttons you'll see when maximizing a window in unity. Above all, I think interface consistency is the main goal
<macinnisrr> , with a secondary goal being that the UI is a monochrome as possible (with colorful icons where needed). Most graphic designers I would think would want a monochrome UI, so that they're not overcompensating for certain tones (like orange).
<macinnisrr> at least that's what's logical. Also, a monochrome theme looks great no matter what wallpaper you're using, which I think is important, as that's often the only tweaking end users make to the look.
<scott-work> sounds good as well as your idea about a blog, i imagine lots of people would like to read about what's going on and what's going on behind it
<macinnisrr> scott-work: yeah, I figure with something like default artwork, there are going to be people liking and disliking any decision made, as it's all personal preference, so being able to explain why certain decisions are being made allows for better collaboration and costructive criticism.
<scott-work> i think many people will be interested in seeing what is going on before it gets released but i think many will equally be impressed by providing the logic and reasoning behind it as well
<scott-work> that might also prevent some criticism possibly
<macinnisrr> scott-work: for sure. Sorry I was gone there for a while - doing the dishes and talking with my wife (who's out of town).
<scott-work> dont' worry about being gone, i do the same at home with the kids and wife :)
<holstein> hehe, i think we should take the web browser out of ubuntustudio be default ;)
<holstein> anything that doesnt have JACK support out of the box
 * holstein half-way kidding
<macinnisrr> holstein: :) us graphic designers need to be able to surf google images for pictures to steal.
<holstein> macinnisrr: apt-get install ubuntu-desktop ;)
<macinnisrr> say, I was wondering about the possibility of a livedvd. For Dream Studio I use Ubuntu Customization Kit, which allows me to just edit an ubuntu livecd. It's really easy to do this way, but I understand that's not possible for UbuntuStudio. Could we, however, build an UbuntuStudio DVD that way and host it on the main site?
<scott-work> macinnisrr: there has been some serious talk lately about livecd
<holstein> macinnisrr: i have a bug report...
<macinnisrr> holstein: what about?
<holstein> yeah, we were talking about *maybe* 12.04
<scott-work> we could make a community supported one, build it with UCK or remastersys or whatever, and host it somewhere
<macinnisrr> scott-work: yeah, that would be great.
<scott-work> but we've also discussed making our dvd iso as a livedvd
<scott-work> but there are two supporting considerations to those
<holstein> macinnisrr: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/695892
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 695892 in Ubuntu Studio "no live CD for ubuntustudio" [Wishlist,New]
<scott-work> if we create a live dvd then we need to do that work manually and host it ourselves somewhere
<scott-work> we have to be extremely clear that this isn't support by canonical and probably shouldn't report bugs in launchpad about the livedvd (perhaps)
<scott-work> but going the other way
<macinnisrr> scott-work: I'm assuming Ubuntu uses the same build process as us, so it couldn't be that hard. I'm sure it's just a matter of adding ubiquity (and all its depends) to the dvd...
<scott-work> right, exactly, but
<scott-work> ...
<scott-work> this would change our installation process quite a bit, holstein has talked with a few people about htis and has more insight
<holstein> yeah, cjwatson said it wasnt really all that easy
<holstein> but totally do-able
<holstein> its not something we would want to waffle on
<scott-work> it would be much more work for us to set up and would require quite a bit of learning for a few people to work out
<holstein> and there are lots of good reasons why we dont have a live CD
<scott-work> although persia did say we could go with the graphical isntaller without having to add ubiquity and the live aspect
<holstein> macinnisrr: we lose task-selection
<macinnisrr> holstein: hmmm... What are the cons of a livecd?
<macinnisrr> holstein: ah.
<holstein> which, for me, hasnt worked right since karmic or so
<holstein> so, i say, let it go
<holstein> BUT
<holstein> i totally see the need
<scott-work> holstein:  i talked to ginger coons of libre graphics manazine and said she often gives out thumb drives with distros on it but can't do that with ubuntu studio because it's not a live media
<holstein> scott-work: yeah
<holstein> ive said it before
<scott-work> so there is emprical, hard data that people would actually use it and we oculd possibly get new users from it
<holstein> we are the only non-live multimedia distro without a proper kernel ;)
<macinnisrr> holstein: I can't remember which derivative it was, but I saw a post somewhere about a livecd based on ubuntu that had a customized ubiquity that allowed package selection, let me look it up and see if I can find...
<holstein> *for now 
<holstein> macinnisrr: that would be handy
<scott-work> holstein: macinnisrr: tasksel might not be that hard of a criteria
<scott-work> with the new package selection it really doesn't impact as much as before by having 2k applications installed
<macinnisrr> scott-work:, holstein: It's edubuntu - http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TWTz8PLm-fI/AAAAAAAADGQ/EkK_ykySz_4/edubuntu-ubiquity-packages.png
<scott-work> AND if we update the menu to move some audio stuff into more sub-menus that would releive the other concern
<holstein> also
<holstein> i didnt even know what those were
<holstein> for several releases
<holstein> its not clear
<holstein> especially if you are used to live installers
<holstein> tabbing down there
<holstein> and hitting the space bar
<holstein> i mean, i get it*
<holstein> BUT
<holstein> i would often
<scott-work> macinnisrr: yeah, i saw that somewhere too and forgot about it, oh yeah, it was on planet ubuntu i think is where i saw it
<holstein> as a newb
<holstein> hit enter by mistake
<holstein> and then, i didnt know what i was missing
<holstein> SO, i would sometimes just reinstall
<holstein> thinking i missed something that i could install otherwise
<holstein> this was in my pre-IRC days
<scott-work> macinnisrr: but ultimately we need peopel to commit to developing a live dvd within the ubuntu studio team before we can seriously consider moving in that direction
<scott-work> i'm active, holstein is active, ailo is active, abogani is active with kernel work....themuso and persia are active on a as-needed basis for short term, direct fixes
<scott-work> paultag has recently been awesomely involved
<scott-work> but that still isn't many people :(
<holstein> maybe thats something i could handle
<scott-work> but i think having a livedvd would absolutely rock for getting people to try ubuntu studio and developing new users
<holstein> scott-work: i do want something technical to take on
<scott-work> i would love to be able to tell ginger coons that ubuntu studio now has a livedvd and that she should be able to give them out when she does talks and presentations
<holstein> just not sure what i can handly
<scott-work> holstein: if you want to work on this i'm sure you wouldn't do it completely alone, i'd be available as often as possible to help
<scott-work> i just can't focus only on that though :P
<holstein> well, im not giving up on backporting
<holstein> and the menu
<holstein> i just got overwhelmed for a bit with work
<holstein> which is great
<holstein> i needed the bread
<macinnisrr> scott-work: Honestly, building a livedvd with UCK takes about 10 minutes actual work, and then 2 hours of waiting (on my machine) for packages to install, and subsequently building the cd/dvd, and finally an overnight upload. I'd be happy to do this work on release day, as I currently do with Dream Studio.
<holstein> macinnisrr: what did you build with?
<holstein> 10.04?
<holstein> i made a bunch of coasters with UCK
<holstein> trying to get it to use a -realtime kernel
<macinnisrr> 10.04, and 10.10 (and previously 9.10, but that was only in-house).
<macinnisrr> holstein: you've got to make sure to copy the kernel and initramfs to the cd image itself (outside of chroot)
<macinnisrr> otherwise you end up with coasters ;)
<holstein> macinnisrr: yeah, and i know in theory what most of those words mean
<scott-work> maybe we can build a livedvd as a "community" project and release it separately from the official release
<scott-work> this may push us to really work on an official livedvd then
<scott-work> if the demand is there :)
<macinnisrr> holstein: well, UCK is just a suite of scripts that do the following: 1)unpack the cd 2)unpack the livecd filesystem (squashfs) 3)chroot (change the root filesystem to the squashfs extract for editing) 4)edit the chroot 5)repack squashfs 6)repack the cd. If you change kernels, you've got to copy the kernel and initramfs from /boot on the chroot (I hope that makes sense) into the boot directory of the cd before step 
<macinnisrr> 5, otherwise the stock kernel will be looking for drivers that no longer exist.
<holstein> macinnisrr: thats is totally waht i was missing
<macinnisrr> holstein: I found all this out the hard way.
<holstein> and i tried a couple times
<holstein> to do what i thought would fix it
<holstein> then, i decided i need to do it all by hand
<holstein> it got over my head pretty quick and i gave up
<macinnisrr> holstein: yeah, the kernel used by the livecd is outside the squashfs (the livecd's filesystem). it starts to boot with that kernel, using the matching initramfs on the cd, then switches to a different root (squashfs).
<macinnisrr> holstein: they had to do it this way in order to compress the root filesystem. Otherwise, the install cd/dvd would be way bigger.
<macinnisrr> scott-work: I'll go ahead and build one for consideration when this release is ready, and host it on my site for people to test.
<scott-work> holstein: another vector to build an iso would be to get your system like you like it and use remastersys
<scott-work> which can make a livedvd
<scott-work> i did that for a friend to try to get him into it
<holstein> will remastersys do the kernel?
<holstein> preserve the kernel?
<scott-work> it should, it's making a clone of the state of your current setup
<scott-work> i made a copy of ubuntu studio with misfits (the band) wallpaper and crap loads of misfits songs on it for him...called is misbuntu
<holstein> hehe :)
<macinnisrr> scott-work: you mean the punk band or Jem and the Holograms' nemesis?
<macinnisrr> ;)
<scott-work> hmmm, i don't know about Jam and the Holograms
<scott-work> .g Jem and the Holograms
<scott-work> doh, thelonious isn't in this channel :/
<macinnisrr> scott-work: 80's cartoon for girls. Like barbie with guitars.
<scott-work> oh, holstein is your internets back up, is thelonious back in #opensourcemusicians
<scott-work> macinnisrr: ah, like josie and the pussycats?
<macinnisrr> scott-work: exactly.
<scott-work> macinnisrr: something else i thought about was making an introductory video for ubuntu studio...having screen shots and actual footage of ardour/jack/whatever in action while voice over about ubuntu studio features
<holstein> scott-work: yeah, it was down for like 4 hours or so
<scott-work> like..."with ardour you can have infite number of track.  it also includes fader automation for faders and panning.  Additionally there are hundreds of plugins to alter your sound..."
<macinnisrr> scott-work: I was actually planning on making a whole series for the next LTS.
<scott-work> " with the jack sound server you can route audio from any jack-aware application to another."
<scott-work> i thought that a great introductory video just highlighting features would be a great addition for the website to help people who don't understand what ubuntu studio understand what it is :P
<scott-work> for tempting new users to be new users
<macinnisrr> scott-work: I'm currently documenting the making of my next album, including the making of the audio, graphics, and videos...
<macinnisrr> scott-work: I'll be making the project files available as well.
<macinnisrr> scott-work: do we have any idea how many hits the install dvd gets?
<scott-work> ooohhh, that's a cool idea
<scott-work> macinnisrr: i don't know how many hits the dvd gets
<scott-work> i've seen a link before that showed it doubling almost every year, but someone else said that it might not be accurate for some reason that i can't remember
<scott-work> pluse this doesn't account for the torrent hits
<macinnisrr> hmm..201 hits/day on distrowatch anyway. Way more than Dream Studio ;)
<scott-work> i'm excited about all the improvement talk
<scott-work> holstein: we should probably schedule another meeting soon so we can devise a good short term plan :)
<holstein> scott-work: sure
<macinnisrr> well, I've gotta go give a guitar/vocal lesson.
<macinnisrr> peace out.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-25
<ScottL> TheMuso, can you help me merge this:  https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.natty-gnome-system-tools/+merge/53420
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 53420 in mldonkey (Ubuntu) "Please sync mldonkey (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ScottL> we talked about this earlier
<ScottL> it has to do with splitting out gnome-time-admin
<TheMuso> ScottL: Right, I'm happy to merge it if you want.
<TheMuso> Done.
<TheMuso> And now updating metapackages.
<ScottL> sweet!  thank you
<ScottL> TheMuso, what did you have to do to merge it?
<ScottL> download the source first i guess
<ScottL> then run the bzr merge command?
<TheMuso> ScottL: Make sure I had the latest revision of the seed branch, then merge the proposed branch in with bzr merge, commit the result, and push.
<ScottL> okay, thank you again :)
<TheMuso> np.
<ScottL> #681873
<ScottL> bug 681873
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 681873 in lucid-backports "Please Backport qjackctl-0.3.6 to Lucid" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681873
<ScottL> bug 681873, bug 729450
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 729450 in lucid-backports "backport yoshimi from maverick to lucid" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/729450
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-26
<quadrispro> just to say: hello guys!
<quadrispro> going away, see you soon!
<holstein> paultag: ping-0-la
<paultag> holstein: pong :)
<paultag> holstein: what's up? 
<holstein> paultag: i have a question about a bug
<holstein> do you have a minute?
<holstein> 2 bugs actually...
<paultag> holstein: sure
<paultag> h	sure :)
<holstein> its over my head :/
<holstein> let me link...
<paultag> holstein: lay it on my, my man
<holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libconfig/+bug/730760
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 730760 in libconfig (Ubuntu Natty) "[MIR] b-d for libffado" [High,Fix committed]
<paultag> me *
<holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus-c++/+bug/730759
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 730759 in dbus-c++ (Ubuntu Natty) "[MIR] b-d for libffado" [High,New]
<holstein> Daviey linked these to US a week or so ago
<holstein> seems a proposed fix was demoting JACK from the main repository
<holstein> that would be bad for US i think
<paultag> hurmmmm
<holstein> paultag: i guess my question is
<holstein> does it look like its sorted out?
<paultag> Since libffado is the only package using libconfig, ubuntu-audio can take care of it for now. Will add ubuntu-audio to its bugmail.
<paultag> holstein: ^ from the report
<paultag> holstein: It looks like ubuntu-audio should take care of it
<paultag> let me read more
<holstein> sure
<paultag> these are not the same source package, so I'm trying to figure out the links between them
<paultag> holstein: yes, we should be OK
<paultag> holstein: ubuntu-audio and debian pkg-multimedia are notified, from the sounds
<paultag> wait, nvmd
<holstein> paultag: would you mind to subscribe or whatever
<holstein> and keep an eye on it with me
<holstein> you dont have to do anything really
<paultag> we're ok ha
<paultag> damn
<paultag> we're ok holstein 
<holstein> im just not sure what any of it means
<paultag> holstein: sure :)
<paultag> holstein: all set
<holstein> i *breifly* had a bugsquad mentor and all that
<holstein> dealing with bugs is hard work ;)
<paultag> :P
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-03-27
<Kokito> hello
<holstein> o/
<Kokito> was wondering if Ubuntu Studio needed any help with the website re-design
<holstein> Kokito: are you on the mailing list?
<holstein> the dev list?
<holstein> im sure there is some things that could be done :)
<Kokito> I have created several Drupal themes for the Haiku Project (http://haiku-os.org, http://haiku-es.org, etc.), and would not mind trying to create one for ubuntu studio
<holstein> Kokito: haiku is awesome :)
<Kokito> holstein: no, I am not on any of the mailing lists
<Kokito> I am actually new to ubuntu studio
<holstein> Kokito: im sure ScottL is asleep by now
<holstein> thats who we need to get you talking to
<Kokito> if the dev list where the website stuff is discussed?
<Kokito> ok
<Kokito> does he frequent IRC?
<holstein> theres https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
<holstein> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
<holstein> ^ thats the one you want
<holstein> maybe both
<Kokito> ok
<holstein> Kokito: yeah, its just past his bedtime :)
<holstein> the ubuntu-studio channel can be a bit dead
<holstein> but, we've been working on some things that keeps this channel somewhat active
<holstein> Kokito: ive always liked those sites :)
<Kokito> not a developer, so was kind of reluctant to join the dev lis
<holstein> the kaiku sites
<holstein> Kokito: you can join if you want
<Kokito> me too holstein, but I am biased :P
<Kokito> holstein: will wait to chat with ScottL here in the next few days and take it from there
<holstein> Kokito: sure
<holstein> he'll be around in the AM
<holstein> in 8 hours or so id say
<holstein> Kokito: glad to meet you
 * holstein is going to crash too...
<holstein> laterx
<Kokito> same here holstein :)
 * Kokito has subscribed to both mailing list
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-19
<ScottL> knome, i think i am done with the ubiquity slideshow:  https://code.launchpad.net/~slavender/+junk/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<ScottL> i will file the UIFe tomorrow morning (about 8 hours hence)
<ScottL> knome, thank you again for your help
<ScottL> i'll still need to update the seeds to use the 'ubuntustudio' slideshow, i think we are currently using the 'ubuntu' one also
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, i've added 'ubuntustudio-live-settings' to the 'dvd-live' seed :)
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Right, I'm still in the middle of making it. :) Got side-tracked, but I'll continue.
<scott-upstairs> micah said he was piloting tomorrow and would update the meta files, so i wanted to make sure it got into the seeds
<micahg> scott-upstairs: it won't get in without being in the archive 
<len-nb> scott-upstairs, ScottL
<len-nb> Just looking at the iso fail in the email list
<len-nb> The subject is :	LiveFS ubuntustudio-dvd/precise/amd64 failed to build on 20120318
<len-nb> But the reason for fail: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<len-nb>  linux-lowlatency-pae:i386 : Depends: linux-image-lowlatency-pae:i386 (=
<len-nb> 3.2.0.18.17) but it is not going to be installed
<len-nb> Why would it be worrying about a 32 bit kernel for the 64bit iso?
<len-nb> Has anyone downloaded the amd64 iso? Is it amd 64 or 1386 In spite of the name?
<len-nb> For some reason the build seems to think there is only one iso to do that includes both...
<len-nb> Are we confused yet?
<len-nb> G'night
<micahg> scott-upstairs: yeah, seems http://launchpadlibrarian.net/96917680/livecd-rootfs_2.58_2.59.diff.gz make the live env 32 bit only, I'll file a bug for cjwatson
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: ScottL: maybe_ubiquity file added, debian/control modified for new binary package.
<astraljava> rev. 105 and 106
<astraljava> micahg: scott-upstairs: ScottL: Figured out the weird "postinst called with unknown argument `install'", it is printed in us-audio.preinst in fact. Is there anything to be done prior to installing the 0.97 version in a fresh install, ie. not upgrading?
<astraljava> If not, I'll just remove that misleading option altogether.
<astraljava> Well actually, I'll remove it already, and we can add it again if need be.
<micahg> astraljava: shouldn't be, I just added that to make sure that what was there before was removed, but it might need a version guard
<astraljava> micahg: Yeah I totally understand why the upgrade-clause is there. It's just that the default case exit 1'ed, thus causing fresh installs to fail. :)
<micahg> astraljava: great, just let me know what I need to upload tomorrow night, glad you were able to figure it out
<astraljava> micahg: I left the default case with the printing, but removed the exit 1.
<astraljava> micahg: Sure, no prob. Just creating a debdiff for it.
<micahg> oh, right, it's in the meta
<astraljava> Yes.
<astraljava> micahg: I did update ubuntustudio-default-settings, too, so you could upload that when you have time.
<micahg> I'm piloting later this evening
<micahg> i.e. in ~21 hours
<astraljava> micahg: It now has the maybe_ubiquity file for the theme loading in casper, and the ubuntustudio-live-settings binary package rule in debian/control.
<astraljava> Oh, good, I'll try to be online then.
<micahg> is US supporting anything except i386 and and64?
<micahg> there's a projectm build failure on arm* that I may or may not have time to debug before release
<astraljava> micahg: I don't think we do.
<astraljava> micahg: In debian/changelog, if I want to include several bugs as (LP: #<bug_number>, #<another_bug>, ...), then how should it be formatted? I understand changelog shouldn't have longer than 76 char lines.
<micahg> 80 char limit
<astraljava> Yeah ok, but what if it's longer than that?
<micahg> just wrap in the whitespace
<astraljava> Ok. Thanks!
<micahg> astraljava: I forgot to upload the backports for audacity for oneiric, I"ll try to do this later this evening
<astraljava> micahg: Sure thing, thanks a bunch!
<ttoine> hi
<knome> scott-upstairs, mm-hmm. can you ping me again when you have filed the UIFe and the bug number, and i'll sort out the rest
<ttoine> hi knome
<ttoine> Scott told me that you are working on the next website
<knome> hey ttoine 
<knome> i am
<ttoine> do you need some help ?
<knome> not at this point, really
<knome> what needs love now is the content
<knome> i saw you had some problems with the staging site
<knome> try https://staging.ubuntustudio.org/
<ttoine> knome, i can help with the content too
<knome> with that, you should poke ScottL 
<ttoine> I already spoke about that with him. I think I will spend some time on the help wiki this week
<ttoine> I have to finish the UbuntuStudioPreparation page first
<knome> :)
<ttoine> knome, you are working on the xubuntu website and development too ?
<knome> yup
<knome> i'm the xubuntu project lead
<ttoine> ok
<astraljava> ttoine: He just likes us better, that's why he hangs out in here.
<knome> :P
<ttoine> ;-)
<ttoine> knome, you produce some multimedia too, or you are just a dev ?
<knome> artist really
<knome> or graphic designer, i may say :)
<ttoine> knome, ok
<ttoine> knome, ScottL, do you think we should speak a bit about some vendors that sell software for Linux ? for example, Harrison and their great Mixbus, based on Ardour ?
<ttoine> scott-work, do you think we should speak a bit about some vendors that sell software for Linux ? for example, Harrison and their great Mixbus, based on Ardour ?
<scott-work> ttoine: we certainly can
<scott-work> there has been some discussion already
<ttoine> I was thinking about that for the ubuntustudiopreparation page
<scott-work> i had contacted canonical at one point about mixbus and/or selling merchandise with ubuntu studio logo on them and was told that we could not do that :/
<ttoine> scott-work, as I said to knome, I will spend some time on the documentation (help wiki) and see what can be done
<scott-work> ttoine: that would be awesome, and quite a relief to me as i expected to me the one to do most of it :-D
<ttoine> scott-work, you are not alone, for now
<ttoine> too bad that we can't sell mechandising with the logo. I would have buy a baseball cap
<scott-work> :)
<scott-work> ttoine: ^^^ the smiley was for "you are not alone"
<scott-work> ttoine: i was told that we could create our own *personal* shirts and canonical did not have a problem with the use of hte logo, it was only for commerical interests they were concerned
<scott-work> the other side is to develop some merchandize and work to get it into the canoncial store
<scott-work> i would like to pursue this during Q+1 or so
<scott-work> i takled about a long plan and this is one line item on it
<ttoine> it would be great, yes
<scott-work> of course, if someone was interested in making it happen sooner, that would be great
<knome> scott-work, we're planning xubuntu t-shirts
<ttoine> if it is possible to get some money, and so pay some developpers...
<knome> scott-work, i suppose it's okay to sell them anywhere as long as we don't make profit
<knome> ttoine, ^
<scott-work> but that would involved someone with artistic abilities designing the shirts and then dealing with the beauracracy of the canonical store
<scott-work> knome: hehe, that sounds very, very reasonable to me ;)
<knome> we've asked the canonical legal dept., but no reply yet
<ttoine> Design of t-shirt and other textile stuff I can see : my wife's sister has its own business in that
<scott-work> knome: perhaps my biggest sin was to actually ask, yes?
<knome> ask what? :)
<knome> i think the canonical store is good.. but they will surely take the profit
<ttoine> I think that knome is right
<knome> we're thinking something like spreadshirt or so, to make it as cheap to buyers as possible
<ttoine> I will contact the ubuntu-fr local group. they sell mechandise on an associative merchandising website
<knome> ttoine, ubuntu merch?
<knome> ttoine, or derivative
<ttoine> http://www.enventelibre.org/
<ttoine> it is in french
<ttoine> but you can see that there are a lot of stuff from books to mugs, OOo, Ubuntu, etc...
<knome> mmh, but it's ubuntu and/or ubuntu-fr only, not derivatives?
<scott-work> knome: ttoine: i don't mind canonical getting the money at this point, i think getting merchandising available for users/fans is most important
<ttoine> no derivative, yes
<knome> and if you contact them, ask if they are making any profit of them (not because we are greedy, but because we want to know if that's legally okay with canonical)
<ttoine> but I know that they use that to pay servers and bandwith, and a bit of time of the ubuntu-fr mainteners
<knome> scott-work, i don't mind canonical getting the money at any point, but my worry is that the prices are higher for the buyer than they would be in an other shop...
<knome> ttoine, but that's probably from other products? i mean, we've investigated this and afair, it's always been "ok as long as you don't make money out of it"
<knome> they don't seem to ask much of the ubuntu stuff, so i'm guessing they are barely making a profit either :)
<scott-work> knome: that is a very, very good point (higher prices), that would certainly disenfranchise many of our users, i expect
<knome> scott-work, you probably should talk with pleia2, she's the one who's investigating this
<knome> from the shop/legal side
<ttoine> knome, scott-work, it is as for music band : they sell more merchandise than cd... so it would be great to offer something to the user community of ubuntu studio
<scott-work> ttoine: i agree
<knome> agreed.
<knome> http://on-disk.com/index.php/cPath/28_135_306_430
<knome> you might want to ask on-disc to ship ubuntu studio too...
<knome> and i might want to ask them to refresh our logo
<knome> that one is 2+ years old
<scott-work> micahg:  you asked a question last week about bug triaging and i think i did not properly respresent ourselves
<scott-work> micahg: a more proper description would be to say that we do read bug reports as they are reported and we do address critical ones (with the exception of the ubuntustudio-menu and ubuntustudio-audio ones)
<astraljava> scott-work: It's alright, I did, and just fixed a few backing up my claims. :)
<scott-work> astraljava: thank you very much for getting into it
<scott-work> speaking for myself, i would say that i choose to ignore them because i  really didn't understand how important they were and didn't understand how to fix them
<scott-work> had i known i could have asked astraljava to look into them and he would fix them so easily and quickly i would have done that much, much sooner ;)
<astraljava> scott-work: Well, you can't strech onto everything, now can you? :)
<astraljava> stretch*
<scott-work> micahg:  but i hope that better explains historical position, and i have already explained that i wish us to be more responsive in the future
<scott-work> hehe
<scott-work> with that said, i really plan to get a UIFe filed for the ubiquity slideshow and an email sent to the TB mailing list about LTS status today
<astraljava> scott-work: I have been feeling guilty about our poor track record on responding to bugs recently, so I am trying to put more effort on it as well in the future. Especially now that we're committing to an LTS release.
<knome> astraljava, could you feel a big guilty for the xubuntu bugs too? :)
<astraljava> knome: Absolutely. I use Xubuntu personally, and then US leans too heavily on you to dismiss you off-hand. :)
<knome> :)
<knome> good >:)
<scott-work> micahg: did you file the bug for the studio image build fails for colin?
<micahg> scott-work: yes, and it was fixed already, I sent a message to the US list, but it got moderated
<scott-work> lols, i tried to add colin's build emails to the mailing list and failed apparently or else i would try to add you too
<scott-work> micahg: have you applied for membership to the mailing list?  if you do that i believe i can add you then
 * scott-work was trying to add colin's build emails only from this end rather than bother him to have a request from his end
<micahg> scott-work: I'm already subscribed
<micahg> it said to many people CCd
<micahg> *too
<scott-work> i saw that you are a memeber
<scott-work> i think i just approved it
<scott-work> yay, it came through
<scott-work> micahg: interestingly yesterday's build log for i386 shows "mv: cannot stat `/srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/scratch/ubuntustudio/dvd/tmp/precise-i386/CD1/casper/filesystem.kernel-lowlatency-pae': No such file or directory"
<scott-work> do you think cjwatson's fix will also fix this or should i file another bug?  if so, against casper?
<micahg> awesome :(
<scott-work> the 32bit images have been failing for several days
<scott-work> i noted this from an earlier email:  [2012-03-11 18:17:11] lb_config noauto --mode ubuntu --distribution precise --bootstrap-keyring ubuntu-keyring --binary-images none --memtest none --source false --build-with-chroot false --parent-mirror-bootstrap http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu/ --parent-archive-areas main restricted universe multiverse --package-lists none --initsystem none --bootloader none --initramfs-compress
<scott-work> this is for the 32bit
<micahg> I didn't see a mail for the i386 build
<scott-work> but this is for the 64bit:  [2012-03-17 18:17:10] lb_config noauto --mode ubuntu --distribution precise --bootstrap-keyring ubuntu-keyring --binary-images none --memtest none --source false --build-with-chroot false --parent-mirror-bootstrap http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu/ --parent-archive-areas main restricted universe multiverse --package-lists none --linux-flavours lowlatency-pae --initsystem none --bootloader no
<scott-work> the difference is "--linux-flavours lowlatency-pae" which is ONLY shown for 64 bit
<scott-work> never mind the erroneous "-pae" bit in the 64bit image build
<micahg> and it looks like th eamd64 ISO was working, this is weird
<scott-work> the file for the buildlog which shows yesertday's 32 bit failure:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntustudio/precise/dvd-20120318.log
<scott-work> make: *** [/srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/scratch/ubuntustudio/dvd/tmp/precise-i386/bootable-stamp] Error 1 ERROR WHILE BUILDING OFFICIAL IMAGES !! ===== Publishing ===== Sun Mar 18 18:48:07 UTC 2012 Publishing amd64 ... Publishing amd64 live manifest ... Making amd64 zsync metafile ... No dvd CD for i386!
<micahg> no idea if it'll work today, builds should be in ~90 minutes though
<scott-work> oh good, after this builds we can resolve the next action
<scott-work>  
<scott-work> reflecting back on this cycle and contrasting it against my first three (?, i think it's been three others)
<scott-work> i am amazed at the things i've learned this cycle and also the amount of development the team has managed to get done
<scott-work> especially when you look at the development (or lack thereof) from the previous two or three cycles, we did some amazing things
<scott-work> (at least to me, i'm sure those working on ubuntu are used to this and more)
<astraljava> I agree, we did some progress during the O and P cycles, yes.
<scott-work> knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/959504
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959504 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "ubuntu studio slideshow requries update" [Undecided,New]
<scott-work> UIFe for the slide show
<scott-work> please feel free to make any changes in the comments if i did or said anything obtuse :P
<scott-work> two points though:
<scott-work> 1. i have not test built the package :(
<scott-work> 2. i have not subscribed anyone at this time (i felt it was prudent not to do this yet)
<scott-work>  
<scott-work> i feel bad about #1 though, i got so worked up and into making things look pretty and working out the content, nevertheless, i still should have done it
<scott-work> which i can when i get home (in 5.55 hours)
<scott-work> now an email to the TB mailing list
<micahg> scott-work: did you do the audit for CVEs for your package set?
<scott-work> ahhhh, no i haven't
<micahg> then they can't move on your application until you know whether or not you can commit to security support :)
<scott-work> oh, well then i can stop looking for the last TB meeting as a reference then
<scott-work> micahg:  is this something i might be able to accomplish in a single evening?  perhaps tonight?
<micahg> scott-work: sure, with the help of a few shell commands :)
<scott-work> micahg: i have your links still, is there some preparation i should be prior?
<micahg> well, I shouldn't say that, depends on how many packages actually show up
<scott-work> ack
<ttoine> scott-work, who has packaged the -lowlatency kernel ??
<scott-work> ttoine:  basically it was aboganni with a few changes (mostly unknown to me) by TheMuso 
<ttoine> scott-work, thanks for the info. Abogani told me that he will not spent more time on the realtime kernel, except for security update. but the lowlatency is not "hard" enough for lowlatency audio prodution
<ttoine> too bad that the realtime kernel can not handle the restricted drivers
<holstein> so far, our testing seems to be pretty positive
<scott-work> ttoine: are you or did alessio say "the lowlatency is not hard enough for audio production" ?
<holstein> the *-generic one is actually not bad for most
<ttoine> I tested some recording in Ardour at less than 5ms latency on my workstation, with the lowlatency kernel. It is not possible with compiz enabled...
<ttoine> scott-work, no. Alessio did not say that. Only me after testing
<holstein> 5 is not really need with ardour though
<holstein> unless you are doing MIDI instruments in live as audio tracks
<ailo> ttoine: Which -lowlatency are you talking about? Precise?
<ttoine> ailo, precise of course
<ailo> There's a problem with the build. It's actually an exact copy of -generic
<ailo> I've tested -lowlatency (which I build myself), and it's as good as -realtime for me
<ttoine> holstein, you need this too if you are using a jack rack for an audio instruments, wants to monitor the effects, and record in ardour
<holstein> lol... that'll do it
<holstein> ttoine: correct, but i dont
<ttoine> ailo, so it explains a lot...
<holstein> i can just do the effect analog for tracking, and add them in post
<holstein> wouldnt bother me if it took 4 seconds for the audio to travel
<ttoine> holstein, I sometimes use my laptop as an effect box, and 5ms is necessary
<holstein> that being said, i get 1.2ms stalbe
<holstein> stable*
<ailo> I'm currently downloading TheMuso's repo for -lowlatency to have a look, but I believe he can fix it quickly once he get's a chance
<ttoine> holstein, with wich version of Ubuntu Studio, and wich Kernell ?
<holstein> 10.04... abogani's older *-rt one
<astraljava> ttoine: I'm not sure you should use compiz, nor NetworkManager, nor any other such foolishness when you require "hard low latency" anyway.
<holstein> i can get 3ms with the generic kernel and a tascam USB interface though
<ttoine> holstein, of course ;-) with that version 
<holstein> lol
<holstein> well, i dont feel the need to regress
<ailo> astraljava: I haven't found any impact on performance on account of those
<ttoine> astraljava, network is not activated when I use very lowlatency
<astraljava> ailo: That doesn't say there wouldn't be.
<holstein> so far, my testing of the generic kernel in 12.04 is not much wors with my particular hardware
<astraljava> ttoine: Ok.
<ailo> Usually when people have performance problems it's when you're sharing irq between such things as your graphic card and your sound device
<holstein> yup.. i had that going on for sure in the past
<ailo> Also, having proprietary drivers for your graphic card can be a performance boost
<ttoine> ailo, true... but should not initirq solve the problem ?
<ailo> ttoine: It should
<ttoine> ailo, the problem is that the realtime kernel of Alessio will not handle the restricted driver
<ailo> I've never had that kind of problems, so I have no way of testing. For me, rtirq makes no difference at all
<ailo> ttoine: -lowlatency is as good as -realtime for me, and has been for the past year. As soon as we get the right config for the current -lowlatency, I urge you to try it out again
<ttoine> ailo, so, as it is installed as a dependecy of the lowlatency or realtime kernel it should not be a problem
<astraljava> ailo: Has this wrong config been addressed properly? I find that quite alarming, that at this stage of the cycle, we don't even have the desired version of the kernel.
<holstein> i know :/
<holstein> sux
<ttoine> ailo, sure. In previous versions of Ubuntu, I used -lowlatency and it was great
<ttoine> ailo, can you give me the ppa name where I can find the proper lowlatency kernel ?
<ailo> astraljava: TheMuso made some changes to the source tree that abogani had made, and by mistake he has used the -generic config instead of the -lowlatency
<ailo> ttoine: There is none. But hopefully we can correct this problem very soon
<ttoine> scott-work, I have an other question. for backports, at the moment, what are you thinking about the kxstudio project ?
<astraljava> ailo: Ok, so it'll be remedied soon enough then, I suppose.
<ttoine> ailo, so, we have just to wait for the new lowlatency kernel in the main repository ?
<ailo> ttoine: Yep. Hopefully we can rebuild the kernel within the week
<scott-work> ttoine: re: backports and kxstudio project - we can't use any packages not in the official repository
<micahg> ailo: beta 2 freeze is thursday, so I'd suggest proceeding with dispatch
<scott-work> ttoine: that doesn't stop anyone from adding the kxstudio ppa's, however
<scott-work> ttoine: the best practice is to get those package into ubuntu proper, or even better, into debian
<ailo> micahg: I'm not aware of Ubuntu policies when it comes to packaging, and kernel packagin in particular. What is a dispatch?
<scott-work> ailo: he means move quickly
<micahg> ailo: that was just a phrase :)
<ttoine> scott-work, ok. But will falktx do that, I am not sure. It seems that he does that more for himself
<scott-work> with "dispatch" = with "alarm" = with "alactiry" = with "speed" = with "haste"
<ailo> scott-work: micahg: I C :)
 * micahg borrowed the phrase from Captain Riker :)
<scott-work> ttoine:  i do not think he will, but it might be better to ask him directly when he is on
<scott-work> ttoine: certainly, some of the packages he includes *can not* be included in ubuntu or debian due to licensing
<scott-work> which is terribly unfortunate
<micahg> if that's the case, they can't be in the PPA either
<ttoine> ok. I will still document it on the UbuntuStudioPreparation as he let me do. It is a great addons
<ailo> I'm having a look at the source in a few moments, but I don't have access to that repo, so I guess he is the only one who can fix it right now?
<ailo> TheMuso's repo, that is
<ttoine> micahg, scott-work, there's still medibuntu. It is great to have alsa-firmware, libdvdcss, and so
<ttoine> I hope that some one will take some time to teach me how to package. The documentation are not made for non programmer/dev
<micahg> libdvdcss is in Debian and Ubuntu IIRC
<holstein> ttoine: i know, right?
<holstein> the docs assume a level of understanding
<micahg> oh, no it's not
<micahg> libdvdread is
<knome> micahg, libdvdcss needs to be installed manually with a script
<ailo> Yeah, and the script gets the package from medibuntu, does it not?
<ailo> But the script is available from within Ubuntu
<ttoine> libdvdcss can not be in debian
<ttoine> knome, no, it is available in Medibuntu repository
<knome> it's also available in the libdvdread-package
<micahg> knome: might not be manual in the future :), http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-multimedia/libdvdcss-installer.git
<knome> this way the user doesn't have to enable any extra repositories
<knome> micahg, aha :)
<ttoine> knome, but the users will have to know how to use git, or a script in a terminal
<knome> ttoine, a script in a terminal, yes. but there is a very straightforward README :)
<ailo> The script is in /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh
<knome> but yes, i agree that it is suboptimal
<ttoine> knome, the good way would to do as for the msttorefonts
<ttoine> a dummy package that will download and compile what is needed
<knome> ttoine, i don't know if that's legally possible, and also, i'm not a very techinical person :)
<knome> *technical
<ttoine> knome, like me... this is the same kind of problem as the vst stuff
<ttoine> and I don't speak about reading a bluray in Ubuntu...
<knome> heh :)
<ttoine> even VLC can not read DVD without libdvdcss in Linux...
<knome> me neither, i'm using propietary stuff for bluray's ;)
<knome> (ps3...)
<scott-work> this is interesting:  http://anonymous-os.tumblr.com/about
<ttoine> knome, I have a bd player, too
<knome> ttoine, i suppose that depends on the dvd :)
<ttoine> scott-work, I would not use that... I am not skilled enough to be sure that they won't use my computer for a purpose I can control
<astraljava> Heh... it's anonymouos... not even themselves were always aware of all purposes their stuff were doing. :)
<astraljava> re: The QR code breach.
<knome> WHAT!
<knome> no track names on the cd sleeve
<ttoine> astraljava, ;-)
 * ttoine is out for dinner
<knome> bon appetit
<ttoine> knome, are you french ?
<knome> no, finnish
<knome> i just love food and i think "bon appetit" is better than "hyvÃ¤Ã¤ ruokahalua"
<astraljava> I'd love to hear a french, who's never tried to pronounce anything in finnish, say that.
<knome> astraljava, bon appetit?
<knome> i don't think that would be very interesting...
 * astraljava facepalms so hard it hurts
<ailo> astraljava: Might have the opposite effect :P
<astraljava> Indeed. :)
 * knome marks one more "X" to his notebooks for making astraljava slap his head
<astraljava> Does it still hold together?
<knome> barely
<astraljava> I'm not responsible for that behaviour, though, so you can't hold me accountable for a new laptop.
<knome> awwwh
<astraljava> Oh, a paper notebook?
<knome> yes...
<knome> :D
<astraljava> Right.
<knome> i suppose that's one more cross
<astraljava> I was going to, but then realized where this was going, and stopped in between.
<knome> heh
<len-nb> i386 has appeared again.... time to download.
<scott-work> yay!
<scott-work> sounds like cjwaton's fix did the trick, i wonder if amd64 is also there and working
<len-nb> There is an amd64 with mar19 beside it.
<micahg> len-nb: thanks for catching that last night
<len-nb> micahg, NP, I want things to go forward too.
<scott-work> knome: i probably misrepresented myself again WRT the slideshow package, i hope it was obvious that i did run the test-slideshow.sh routine, although i didn't actually build the package at this point
<knome> scott-work, running test-slideshow.sh should be fine
<ttoine> astraljava, knome, If we have the chance to met, I would be please to let you hear. ;-)
<astraljava> ttoine: Would be a blast for sure. :) Maybe some UDS or similar convention, who knows. :) Or then we just have to come up with our own, and ask for sponsor money from The Big C so that Scott could fly across the pond. :)
<knome> heh, or then ttoine just flies to helsinki next fri.
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> Well, there's that. :)
<ttoine> Hum, to short in money at this time
<ttoine> and i had been invited once to a UDS, as one of the founder of Ubuntu Studio. So I think I won't be invited again
<ttoine> but if a UDS happen in France, or Switzerland, I will do my best to come
<scott-work> ttoine: that may not be true
<ttoine> scott-work, why?
<scott-work> the release manager (kate stewart) stated that she would like the leads of the derivatives (if i may use that term) to go to the UDS
<scott-work> and i certainly will not be able to attend every one, i believe there may be a chance for someone else to go in my stead
<ttoine> I am not anymore part of the leaders ;-) or you hided it to me
<scott-work> caveat:  i haven't spoke to kate about this position
<scott-work> ttoine:  the structure of ubuntu studio is kinda murky currently simply because there are so few people involved (although that involvement is increasing)
<scott-work> but i would gladly offer for those who are actively involved the chance to go to the UDS's where i am unable
<scott-work> again, i have not spoken to kate about this so it might be an invalid consideration
<ttoine> This year, I will try to be an independant worker again. And if possible I will try to give some courses at the university, etc..
<ttoine> I did some courses about producing multimedia in the faculty of my City
<ttoine> If I can manage to earn enough money as an independant worker, I will have time to spent on documentations and money for traveling, as I was in 2006 to 2008
<astraljava> ttoine: Sounds good, hope it happens for you!
<ttoine> astraljava, me too... let's imagine : be payed to teach how to record audio with Ubuntu Studio..
<astraljava> Quite a dream gig, isn't it. :)
<astraljava> For TESTers: check out testdrive package in the archives, seems to make daily testing so much easier. If it works, I just found out about it.
<ttoine> so, I just did a trial with the -realtime kernel of Alessio. Recording a stereo track at 5ms on an old centrino laptop, with unity (compiz enabled) and the network manager enabled. so, actually, the worse that may be done.
<ttoine> It works, except one x-run, but sound cloud removed it.
<ailo> ttoine: I was running jackd with -p 32 for more than an hour, playing rakarrack. Not a single xrun with -lowlatency. About the same with --realtime
<astraljava> Sounds like a good comparison setting for when the lowlatency is properly configured.
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> ailo, what is the cpu of your pc ?
<ailo> ttoine: This one is a dual core, 2.13GHz
<ttoine> ailo ;-) quite better than  my old laptop. I keep it for day to day internet, and for testing the  system weight of Ubuntu and derivatives
<ailo> I have two machines. The other is an AMD Athlon X2, around 3 GHz or so
<ailo> I also have a good range of audio devices to test. Only lacking an usb device
<ailo> ttoine: About 1 1/2 years ago I was still using a P3, 833GHz
<ailo> Or, whatever it was. A bit over 800 anyway
<ailo> I was just able to use it for live audio
<ttoine> ailo, I have a usb device. I sold my RME hdsp two years ago for money, bad luck... I miss it a lot
<Len-live> Mar 19 14:33:25 ubuntu-studio kernel: [    0.000000] Linux version 3.2.0-18-lowlatency-pae (buildd@vernadsky) (gcc version 4.6.3 (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu2) ) #26-Ubuntu SMP Fri Mar 9 01:42:06 UTC 2012 (Ubuntu 3.2.0-18.26-lowlatency-pae 3.2.9)
<Len-live> scott-work ^^^^
<Len-live> The live iso now has whatever passes for lowlatency
<scott-work> sweet!
<scott-work> i'm curious to see how it performs too then
<Len-live> def-settings is not new yet?
<scott-work> when installed, of course
<scott-work> Len-live: no, hopefully micahg is updating that and the meta today
<Len-live> I don't see any sign of new menus
<Len-live> OK
<scott-work> which should make it for tomorrow's image
<scott-work> i ahven't done the panels yet though :(
<Len-live> one thing at a time
<Len-live> Anything else I should look at?
<scott-work> geez, i don't know at the moment, my brain is fried from both studio and work too :P
<Len-live> I'll try installing then
<micahg> scott-work: I can upload default settings and the meta tonight
<scott-work> yay!
<scott-work> thank you for all your great work micahg :)
<Len-live> The slideshow is too tall for my screen, I can't see the infos at the bottom... progrees bar etc.
<scott-work> Len-live: there is a good chance the slideshow you are watching is actually the plain, vanilla 'ubuntu' slideshow
<Len-live> nope, that one is the right size this is ubuntustudio for sure. It looks nice by the way.
<Len-live> The slide show does not "wrap around" like the stock ubuntu one does.
<Len-live> I don't know if that is a good thing or bad...
<scott-work> oh, yeah, i updated the seeds last night, so i presume the image now has that too
<scott-work> and micah was right about including the -live-settings package, i was thinking about building the image and not updating the meta files
<scott-work> Len-live: hopefully when you installed you should have a ubiquity installer that doesn't have the funcky background/text issues like previously
<Len-live> So far so good. No artifacts during slide change either
<Len-live> Using less /var/log/syslog with F to follow install because not bottom info....
<ttoine> scott-work, If you want, tomorrow morning I can run the live cd in virtualbox and provide screenshots
<Len-live> Like right now there is no drive activity, but it is downloading so ok.
<astraljava> scott-work: The casper file will be uploaded tonight, so it's not on these images yet.
<Len-live> ttoine, that may be too soon. lots of changes will happen right after.
<Len-live> ttoine, Hi btw, I'm new here.
<Len-live> astraljava, it looks like we need that new casper, things seem to have hung in the same place as before.
<ttoine> Len-live, it was just to share a look on what it is at the moment
<Len-live> No problem, just that the new menus will not show up till 18:45 or so server time tomorrow.
<astraljava> Len-live: casper won't help with the hanging, that was about jackd2 reconfiguring.
<astraljava> Len-live: bug #955617
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 955617 in casper (Ubuntu) "ubiquity hangs (no activity forever) at configuring target system" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/955617
<astraljava> Well, _that_ casper file won't help. The bug is in fact in casper, though.
<astraljava> Len-live: Colin has just now linked a new branch on the bug report.
<Len-live> astraljava, ok, from what I hear the "new kernel" is in fact not yet right yet... so install is not that big of a problem yet.
<Len-live> I saw that earlier that was why I thought that might fix it.
<knome> ScottL, ?
<Len-live> knome, I think Scott is on his way home.... scott-work just closed...
<knome> i suppose too, i was having a PM with him and then he disappeared ;)
<ScottL> knome, i'm home now
<knome> ScottL, good!
<knome> ScottL, https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ubuntustudio
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-20
<ScottL> knome, yeah, that fookin' rocks
<ScottL> micahg, want to do the security thing, i'll be going upstairs in just a minute
<micahg> ScottL: dinner, then errands, I won't be available really for another 2.5 hours, let me know if you need the links though
<ScottL> i played with the web browser one during my lunch (windows machine), i'll download the code in a bit
<ScottL> i hope it works of off packagsets of similar to make searching easier
<ScottL> i should still be availabe in 2.5 hours though
<micahg> ScottL: it's mostly a data branch
<micahg> ScottL: the 3 dirs that interest you are active (open CVEs), retired (fixed or ignored after time CVEs), scripts (pkg_status might be helpful)
<len-nb> A fix for Bug 955617 has been released so I will try installing tomorrow.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 955617 in casper (Ubuntu) "ubiquity hangs (no activity forever) at configuring target system" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/955617
<scott-upstairs> len-nb, did it hang for you again today?
<len-nb> scott-upstairs, Yes it hung today, but the fix was released after the iso build.
<len-nb> By about two hours if I read things right.
<len-nb> I guess it was about the time you left work so you missed it.
<scott-upstairs> micahg, i'm ready whenever you are
<scott-upstairs> falktx, are you still interested in working up the theme like we talked
<scott-upstairs> ?
 * scott-upstairs is about a week behind on sending out emails and working on his list now
<micahg> scott-upstairs: I'm wondering what you still need from me  :)
<scott-upstairs> micahg, the security stuff, i'm a little confused about what i'm supposed to do with the 'active', et al directoreis
<falktx> scott-upstairs: I was waiting for an email or something
<falktx> scott-upstairs: it's hard to tell without knowing how much work is still required
<scott-upstairs> falktx, just making sure, i'll forward two emails with an quick explanation in the first one
<scott-upstairs> falktx, are you working with the open octave group?
<falktx> scott-upstairs: please send those emails first, then I'll see if I can help there or not
<falktx> scott-upstairs: a bit yes, but not too much lately
<scott-upstairs> falktx, that is super cool!
<falktx> I'm woking on the juce-lv2 wrapper right now
<falktx> getting close to a release product
<micahg> scott-upstairs: what I did for xubuntu was grep in retired for the xubuntu package names
<micahg> then you can use ./scripts/pkg_status to check for open issues
<micahg> that should give you the history of your packages
<scott-upstairs> micahg, but i have to do this manually for each package that i am interested in?
<micahg> scott-upstairs: no, I'd suggest dumping the packageset list in a file, then using something like  'cat MYFILE | xargs -I{} grep {} retired/* > US_security-history.txt' and something similar to get the pkg_status output
<micahg> that's why I said it can be done in a night if the output isn't too bad with a little shell scripting :)
<scott-upstairs> where can i get the packageset, i seem to remember someone gave me a link once but i don't remember where it is
<micahg> scott-upstairs: http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/precise/ubuntustudio
<scott-upstairs> thanks, added bookmark this time
<micahg> scott-upstairs: this version might be a little better for shell scripting minus the initial output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/891684/
<scott-upstairs> i started to say, "i've never heard of the 'zhengpeng-hou' package before...what is this???"  and then i realized it was a *person*  LOL
<scott-upstairs> hmmm, giving me 'argument list too long'
<scott-upstairs> yay, got it to work (i think)
<scott-upstairs> oops, didn't...trying again with some changes
<micahg> scott-upstairs: you could diff against this one as well (xubuntu packageset): http://paste.ubuntu.com/891689/
<scott-upstairs> micahg, is there somewhere i can read some background about what i'm doing or a defined scope of what the expectations are?
<micahg> scott-upstairs: not that I'm aware of, you're trying to ascertain the effort necessary to support the packages in your packageset not supported by anyone else for the duration of your LTS
<micahg> in this case specifically, security support
<scott-upstairs> oh, i did something horribly wrong, the US_security file i outputed was already 5.6 gigs and growing
<scott-upstairs> but i need to go downstairs and hold my son, he's fussy and it's time for his bed
<micahg> yeah, doesn't sound right :)
<scott-upstairs> OH, maybe i didn't do something wrong, all the lines that i read seem to be related to packages in the set
<scott-upstairs> here is a sample of what i got:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/891699/
<scott-upstairs> okay going downstairs hopefully for only thirty minutes or so
<scott-upstairs> (yes, i called my file 'MYFILE' :P  it made it easier)
<micahg> scott-upstairs: umm, is it really >5GB?
<falktx_> scott-upstairs: afaik, the icon theme is a no go
<falktx_> scott-upstairs: it needs proper docs explaining who made them, which ones are not in the original pack (oxygen), and which are custom made.
<falktx_> last time I checked Dick just picked icons from several places into a big icon theme
<falktx_> canonical will not approve this
<falktx_> I don't know enough about the theme or the wallpaper
<micahg> ScottL: sorry, will have to upload stuff in the morning, need some sleep now
<astraljava> len_: scott-upstairs: ScottL: The ubiquity hang bug should now be fixed in casper version 1.312, so let's look at that on the next images tonight.
<astraljava> ScottL: I joined the lightdm-gtk-greeter team on LP, so if our project has devel suggestions, I would be happy to act as a proxy towards getting the implemented. I thought it was the most suitable way of getting into actual Ubuntu development for me.
<knome> :)
<scott-upstairs> micahg, yeah, i'm sure it's a 6gb file: http://imagebin.org/204363
<knome> i like that username >:)
<scott-upstairs> which username?
<scott-upstairs> mine?
<knome> yep, on the shot
<knome> /home/master
<knome> >:)
<astraljava> Wow, that's insane. scott-upstairs: I could assist you on the CVE tracking in a couple of hours, if you need any help.
<astraljava> Pretty interested about this topic.
<knome> i think i'm off for a while
<knome> see you :)
<astraljava> I'm going out for a few now, though. But if you can make a short summary on what has happened thus far, I'd appreciate it.
<scott-upstairs> knome, oh, lol, well i screwed up and branched in my home directory, just happened to be a /master folder first in there
<knome> astraljava, how far away you want me to start? BCE?
<knome> scott-upstairs, ;)
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, i'm not really making much progress so far but i can shoot you an email in a bit, right now i'm just making sure i retain the information micah has given me
 * knome is really off now ->
<scott-upstairs> by knome 
<scott-upstairs> er bye
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, okay, sent you the same email i was sending myself to help document some of this, it's very loosely (at least chronologically) organized, but may not be very self-explanatory
<astraljava> knome: The big bang, obviously. And if you have any info on what preceded it, I'd be grateful.
<scott-upstairs> okay, got to go and start getting kids up
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Ok, thanks! See you later.
<ttoine> hi
<astraljava> Hi Antoine!
<ttoine> astraljava, some news about TheMuso and the lowlatency kernel ?
<astraljava> ttoine: Haven't heard/seen any updates, sadly.
<astraljava> Yeah, the latest commit is still that of March 9th
<astraljava> ttoine: I'm cloning the git branch now, and will give it a stab later tonight to try updating the config and roll my own. If it works, I'll upload my own branch somewhere for people to test.
<astraljava> It's not a lasting solution, though, as I'm afraid there'll be plenty of updates for the ubuntu kernel still. But it'll teach me some kernel hacking, at least. :)
<ttoine> astraljava, ok.
<astraljava> ailo: As you know about the lowlatency config, what are the changes to it? I see in Luke's branch there to be a lowlatency config file including turning preempt on, marking hz_1000=y and slab=y. Would those be enough, or are there other settings still?
<astraljava> If those are enough, then it's probably just a packaging issue, which I will look into next.
<astraljava> Hmmm... that's a bit confusing. In that Luke's branch, debian/debian.env already points to debian.lowlatency.
<astraljava> I'm afraid I need more guidance in debugging this.
<micahg> ScottL: wow, that's huge, maybe the guys in #ubuntu-hardened would have an easier way to do this :(
<astraljava> micahg: I'll give it a go as well, just to see whether there was a glitch somewhere.
<micahg> ok, will a little more fine tuned scripting, you could output a count of CVEs as opposed to a huge file of all the lines that match
<astraljava> micahg: I'm suspecting the multiple times of names in that packageset listing (what's with that anyway?)
<micahg> ooh, right, I didn't check that, a simple | sort | uniq will fix that
<astraljava> micahg: Yeah, but when looking into package names, I need to get rid of uploaders anyway, so not a problem.
<astraljava> micahg: What I think has happened there, is that uploaders have creeped into the dumped file that is then used in getting the information.
<micahg> astraljava: I gave a pastebin without that :)
<astraljava> micahg: Oh! Okay, sorry about that. :)
<astraljava> micahg: Well, I'll double-check, still, as I want to get a hang of the process anyway.
<scott-work> how is everyone doing today?  we had some wicked storms come through and it knocked the power out at work for a while
<astraljava> scott-work: Quite ok, I suppose. I'm trying to find out how you managed to get the 6GB file, when I'm failing to get any output at all.
<astraljava> Chopping the process to pieces, trying to spot the error(s). There are several.
<scott-work> astraljava: i moved my 'MYFILE' into the \retired directory, then reran the bash command without the '\retired' part
<scott-work> mabye i already did that in the email, i'll check
<astraljava> scott-work: micahg: It should be ok to run the pkg_status script in an oneiric machine, right?
<scott-work> that should be 'retired/' and without the 'retired/'
<scott-work> that is, explicitly:
<scott-work> cat MYFILE | xargs -I{} grep {} retired/* > US_security-history.txt
<scott-work> changed to
<astraljava> scott-work: How did you come up with the MYFILE in the first place?
<scott-work> cat MYFILE | xargs -I{} grep {} * >US_secutiry-history.txt
<scott-work> but spell security properly :P
<scott-work> it was part of the email
<scott-work> and it was derived from something micahg sent to me, which was also part fo the email
<astraljava> Oh, so it was, sorry. :)
<scott-work> MYFILE is basically a text file that contains all the packages in our packageset
<scott-work> hehe, np :)
<astraljava> Yeah, so I worked a similar package-list file, but get nothing when I'm trying to use it. Apparently there is some configuration to be done before you can properly run the pkg_status script.
<astraljava> Btw. that command won't, obviously, do anything meaningful.
<astraljava> micahg: Do you have any idea why this happens? http://paste.ubuntu.com/892616/
<astraljava> micahg: the pkgs file is a similar listing of packages that is created in pkg_status script when called with `-f' option.
<scott-work> astraljava: i never tried  pkg_status
<scott-work> only the cat - xargs- grep line
<astraljava> ailo: Well, I managed to build the kernel packages, but so far I have no idea how to verify what config it uses.
<astraljava> scott-work: Yes, but there's nothing that processes the output of that file after it has been grepped.
<scott-work> astraljava: did it create a US_security-history.txt file?
<astraljava> scott-work: No.
<astraljava> $ cat ~/Documents/ubuntu/ubuntustudio/MYFILE-U | xargs -I{} grep {} retired/* > ~/Documents/ubuntu/ubuntustudio/US_security-history.txt
<astraljava> xargs: argument list too long
<scott-work> huh, this is PART of my output:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/891699/
<astraljava> I wouldn't imagine it doing so, anyhow.
<scott-work> astraljava: right!  that is why i moved the MYFILE into the retired/ directory and then reran the command with 'retired/' in the command
<astraljava> scott-work: Can you double-check the command, please?
<scott-work> so, i moved MYFILE (which is the actual filename) into the /master/retired directory
<scott-work> then i ran...
<scott-work> wait...then i cd /master/retired
<scott-work> THEN i ran...
<scott-work> i ran so far away....i couldn't get away
<scott-work> sorry
<scott-work> cat MYFILE-U | xargs -i{} grep {} * > US_security-history.txt
<scott-work> (i had forgotten i renamed the file to MYFILE-U for ubuntu studio packages and MYFILE-X for xubuntu packages)
<astraljava> Uhh... alright, I was a little confused from the steps in the email. Let me try again, hold on.
 * scott-work crosses fingers
<scott-work> we have a lot of package names in our package set
 * scott-work wonders how large was the Xubuntu_security-history.txt file was micah generated
<micahg> astraljava: you should use pkg_status, not ubuntu-table I think
<micahg> and --supported won't help for US
<astraljava> Ok NOW we're talking. :)
<astraljava> Certainly not a 6GB file, mind you. :)
<scott-work> astraljava: it took about two minutes to get to that point
<scott-work> i actually stopped the bash command
<astraljava> micahg: I was just chopping the problem to pieces, but I didn't actually need to do that. I just misunderstood the instructions.
<astraljava> http://paste.ubuntu.com/892678/
<astraljava> Erhm... wait, I still don't get it. Where does the pkg_status come into picture?
<micahg> astraljava: oh, that'll tell you the current state of the packages (open CVEs)
<astraljava> It wants the packages as arguments.
<astraljava> micahg: Yeah.
<astraljava> So... what was it that you actually wanted?!
<micahg> unless you grepped active and retired
<micahg> astraljava: historical vulnerability and current security status
<micahg> astraljava: you basically want to know how much work it'll be to support your packageset over the life of your LTS
<micahg> keep in mind security support is one part, there's bug fix support as well
<astraljava> micahg: Ok. I have to spend a little time on that file, to get an understanding of how it should be interpreted.
<micahg> you also want to know the current shape of your packages
<astraljava> micahg: Right. But that's why I chopped the pkg_status script problem into smaller parts, because it's failing to run on my system.
<micahg> hmmm
<astraljava> micahg: On security support, should someone of us be a member of a team (or something similar) to be informed about the CVEs and other problems, or is it enough to rely on LP bugs?
<micahg> nope, the Ubuntu security team will be notifying whoever the derivative contacts are of vulnerabilities, we're going to discuss how best to do this at UDS
<astraljava> micahg: Gah, you just made me want to apply for sponsoring for the next UDS with that. :D
<scott-work> astraljava:  you pastebin looks very similar to mine, what was the final file size?
<scott-work> s/you/your
 * micahg is guessing that's the whole thing
<astraljava> $ ll US_security-history.txt 
<astraljava> -rw-rw-r-- 1 jaska jaska 122548 2012-03-20 21:30 US_security-history.txt
<astraljava> scott-work: So... 122K
<micahg> astraljava: you could also exclude the xubuntu packageset if you like
<astraljava> micahg: I know, but I tend to want to participate in those as well, so I won't. :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Are you the security contact for US at the moment?
<astraljava> scott-work: ...and furthermore, if you are, then are you willing to share responsibilities?
<micahg> astraljava: well, for this exercise, it's prudent as, those packages already have been accepted as ok for the LTS, the TB wants to know if you're willing to take on the added maintenance for the new packages that no one else is supporting, you can help with whatever you like
<astraljava> micahg: Ahh... I understand.
<ailo> astraljava: There's three places for configs for lowlatency. The ones in use are in debian.lowlatency/config/i386/config.flavour.lowlatency and debian.lowlatency/config/amd64/config.flavour.lowlatency
<ailo> Those need to be changed, and commited
<ailo> The one in debian.lowlatency/config/config.flavour.lowlatency is correct but not used
<scott-work> astraljava: i'm not sure who the contact for US is at the moment, but if it was me i would defintely be willing to share
<ailo> astraljava: So, just replace the ones in */i386/* and */amd64/* respectively with the one that is correct
<ailo> astraljava: Are you building from git, or from apt source?
<scott-work> micahg: were you able to update the metas this morning?
<astraljava> micahg: I assume I have to go through this page before the pkg_status script will run properly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UbuntuCVETracker
 * scott-work is wondering if the default-settings, et al will be reflected in today's image
<astraljava> scott-work: Right. Cause that might affect on my decision to file for sponsoring to attend the coming UDS.
<astraljava> ailo: I'm building Luke's git branch.
<ailo> astraljava: After you've installed a kernel, you can check the config for it in /boot, for example do: cat /boot/config-3.2.0-18-lowlatency | grep PREEMPT
<astraljava> ailo: Ok, thanks!
<astraljava> ailo: Currently I'm concentrating on the CVE issue, but I'll get back to the kernel thingie after this.
<ailo> astraljava: I'm still waiting for Luke to drop by. I've been playing around with the source. Replacing the config is no problem, but I would also like to understand how it is synced with the main ubuntu kernel. There's a short howto in the main dir under "MAINTENANCE", but there's more to it than that. 
<micahg> scott-work: sorry, still trying to finish something else, default settings needs to go in first or you won't get the live packages
<ailo> Been busy today, so I have not had any time to look more into kernel maintenance
<scott-work> micahg: ack'd
<scott-work> it's not too big of a deal currently as colin still needs to finish the jack configuration bug as we can't install anyways at this point
<astraljava> micahg: Apparently I was missing some packages that were listed on that page I just linked to, now the script runs, but the output only has release names. I guess it's possible that no package has an open CVE at the moment, right? Or am I to believe the script still doesn't work?
<micahg> astraljava: yes, I'm sure many are like taht
<astraljava> micahg: Alright, thanks!
<micahg> astraljava: what would be useful is package name and count actually
<micahg> also, per year would help as well
<astraljava> micahg: Okay, I'm going to write a python script to help me with this, so I can do it more automatically in the future.
<scott-work> uh, i wonder what i just got myself into for the slideshow UIFe #959504
<scott-work> bug #959504
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959504 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] ubuntu studio slideshow requires update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959504
<astraljava> Err... what are 'screen shot requirements'?
<astraljava> micahg: How's this look? http://paste.ubuntu.com/892802/
<micahg> looks nice for the current status :)
<astraljava> micahg: That's actually the pkg_status script output. I'll get to the history file now.
<astraljava> Yeah.
<micahg> keep in mind, libav-extra is usually uploaded with libav by the security team
<micahg> that's not bad at all
<astraljava> http://paste.ubuntu.com/892817/ for the history, but I'll get to the grouping now.
<astraljava> I still don't really understand that file, so it will take a while. :)
<astraljava> Ahh... I do now.
<astraljava> But it might take a while to script a better-looking listing of that.
<scott-work> astraljava: very nice (looking at first paste)
<scott-work> by the way, what does 'DNE' mean?
<micahg> README file explains all, means Does Not Exist
<astraljava> Does Not Exist?
<astraljava> Oh.
<astraljava> micahg: Actually, your requirement for the listing isn't something that's often needed, right? So there's no point in writing such a script, is there?
<micahg> no, not really, although I'm going to bring it up at UDS about being able to look at the history of a package
<astraljava> micahg: Yeah, but just for this LTS application purpose, that's a one-time deal (at least for the next two years/LTS cycle). :)
<astraljava> micahg: Oh, now I realized what you meant. Ok, I can make such a script later. Will that need more info other than pkgname, year and count? Like the needed/released/not-affected information?
<micahg> astraljava: not at the moment, we'll probably develop something more generic after UDS, so I wouldn't spend much time on it
<scott-work> (sheepishly) uh, i guess i need to look at the README file
<astraljava> micahg: ACK
<scott-work> oh, scottk approved the UIFe for the updated slideshow
<knome> \o/
<astraljava> micahg: You've got mail.
<micahg> astraljava: I always have mail :)
<astraljava> *smirk* Yeah, but it's such a legendary phrase. :)
<scott-work> oh yeah, colin had updated casper for the jack -rt debconf, which hopefully prevents the install from hanging...and those builds should have been built already
<micahg> astraljava: audacity 11.10 backport building in ppa:micahg/ppa, should be ready in ~1hr, you could file the backport request if you like with requestbackport in precise (from ubuntu-dev-tools)
<astraljava> micahg: Don't I need to test it first?
<micahg> astraljava: yes, you can file the request before you test it, just note that you'll be testing it, or wait until you test it, either way
<astraljava> micahg: Ok.
<micahg> imagemagick is in main, I wonder why that's in your list
<astraljava> micahg: Ehrm... it should be gem.
<micahg> heh :)
<scott-work> going home
<knome> have a nice way home :)
<micahg> astraljava: yes, but I think those CVEs are for imagemagick :)
<scott-work> knome: eh, it's rainy and i've got to get the kids on the way, it will probably be 1.3 hours until i'm there
<knome> awwh
 * knome wonders if 1.3 means 90 minutes, or something a bit short of 80 mins
<astraljava> micahg: That might be true, I did see an awful lot of imagemagick in the CVE descriptions, which is probably why I mistook the name for the package.
<astraljava> knome: It'd be a little less than 80 min., of course. *duh*
<knome> astraljava, if you took it literally. though it's easy to mistake half and hour to .3
<micahg> astraljava: overall, not too bad though, certainly seems manageable
<astraljava> micahg: Good to hear, thanks!
<astraljava> micahg: I'd certainly love to come and talk about that  with you guys at UDS.
<knome> astraljava, we should start lobbing for UDS R Helsinki.
<micahg> astraljava: there's always remote participation
<astraljava> micahg: True. knome: True.
<astraljava> Meh, the sponsoring is closed already. :-/
<knome> long time ago.
<knome> not for UDS R Helsinki though.
<astraljava> knome: Less than a month. :)
<knome> feels like an eternity.
<astraljava> Oh well. It might have been too early anyway, if I actually do get a new job soon enough.
<knome> mmh.
<astraljava> ailo: I see, those files are auto-generated, and empty currently.
<astraljava> ailo: Spoke too soon, amd64 is empty, i386 is not.
<ailo> astraljava: Yes, but I don't think auto-generation is the best choice for those configs. The autogeneration should be kept for -generic
<ailo> As these configs are overriding the -generic on a few items, they don't need be update as long as those configs exist
<ailo> updated*
<ailo> For each new kernel version there might be a few new configs available, or some taken out. There's a script for updating the config for -generic, which I would let UTK deal with
<ailo> To be even clearer, the config options for -lowlatency should probably be edited manually, and won't need to be edited as long as there's no change in those few particular config options. One would probably need to keep oneself updated on that however.
<astraljava> TheMuso: Hi, as I am in the Studio kernel team, I'd love to have some info re: how the lowlatency kernel is updated, and how I can best participate in the maintaining of it. Would you have some pointers to docs on best practices or something similar?
<TheMuso> astraljava: Afaik there is nothing really documented as to how to maintain it. When I do the next rebase, which should hopefully be today, I'll write something up. I am a hopeless doc writer though.
<astraljava> TheMuso: That's fine, if you have something, I could try and expand it by asking questions and trying to write it down, then. :)
<astraljava> Thanks a bunch!
<TheMuso> np
<Len-live> Today's ISO...  ls /etc/security/limits.d/
<Len-live> audio.conf
<Len-live> Something has worked :-)
<ailo> Let me ask everyone. Who is going to be the main maintainer for the -lowlatency longterm? I have recently offered to do so, and have started putting a lot of effort into that. Some documentation on the subject would indeed be helpful, as well as a clear idea for how it should be done. I remember reading something about putting -lowlatency on github or something like that?
<Len-live> US slide show still too tall for netbook screens, can't follow install progress.
<Len-live> The ardour slide says "add Ardour" does that mean we don't ship it? That comment kinda makes it sound that way.
<Len-live> Install looks like it is going to complete... got to installing grub this time.
<astraljava> ailo: We have a team for that, now. Talk to Scott about being included in it, he's the owner and it's moderated.
<astraljava> ailo: I am also interested in creating some docs for helping the maintainers in that team.
<astraljava> knome: *poke* There's some comments re: slide-show ^^
<astraljava> Len-live: Great news, thanks for reporting!
<astraljava> micahg: Thanks for uploading! :)
<micahg> astraljava: what did I upload?
<knome> astraljava, awwh, summary please? :P
<Len-live> astraljava, install is still going, downloading extra software now
<astraljava> micahg: Hmmm... I thought theose progresses on images were the result of uploads of -meta.
<Len-live> The US slide show seems to need to be less tall by the size of the text bar across the top to fit netbook screens.
<ScottL> i missed the news, Len-live what happened?
<knome> Len-live, right. alt+drag
<astraljava> micahg: Oh, now I remember, the hanging was not related to -meta, nor any US packages in the first place. Sorry for the fuss.
<micahg> astraljava: nope, new one should be in tomorrow if I ever finish what I'm working on :)
<astraljava> micahg: Gotcha. :)
 * astraljava feels half asleep too
<Len-live> knome, not a problem for me, I watch less /var/log/syslog anyway. More for new users.
<ScottL> yeah, hanging was due to 1st casper needing changes to preseed at the right time, and 2nd hooks for the actual configuration
<astraljava> ScottL: Yeah, I did actually post about that bug earlier, but already forgot. :)
<Len-live> ScottL , live DVD now has ls /etc/security/limits.d/
<Len-live> audio.conf
<ScottL> Len-live, i'm curious about the slideshow and how it is working
<ScottL> Len-live, that is out-F'ing-standing news!!!
<knome> Len-live, the xubuntu installer has a same sized slideshow, and we haven't really had reports it being all too tall :)
<ScottL> i'll go zsync my image and see how it looks
<Len-live> Slide show works but too tall for short screens... I think by the width of the text bar across the top.
<knome> Len-live, it probably is... but probably acceptable for most too :)
<ScottL> well after i get the kids food
<Len-live> The ubuntu slide show fits.
<knome> Len-live, yup.
<knome> ScottL, how willing are you to just let the images but off from the bottom?
<Len-live> The install takes a while, longer than ubuntu desktop for example. And there are times when the disk is not busy but things are working fine... with no progress bar it looks like the install has hung.
<knome> ScottL, content would work otherwise with 100px less tall windows
<knome> Len-live, even the progress bar might look like the installation is stuck, though...
<Len-live> It at least tells you I am downloading something... I would prefer a console... in fact I make one.
<Len-live> Anyway, install complete, going for reboot.
<ScottL> knome, i think i'd be okay with that, but i would like to look at the install we have before we do anything
<ScottL> Len-live, good luck :)
<ScottL> i wonder how the background/text looked?
<knome> it looks good.
<knome> i checked that when i updated the bg
<knome> everything is readable
<knome> i even checked the less tall window size minutes ago, and that seemed to work pretty well too
<len-1204> ISO install boots ok. I can't see anything really amiss.
<len-1204> default-settings still hasn't been updated, but I think I knew that.
<ScottL> knome, sorry, i mean the uqibuity installer background/text...we had a bug without the -live-settings package
<ScottL> len-1204, that is awesome (and quite relieving) news
<knome> ScottL, right.
<len-1204> ScottL, do you want me to try another install without going live first?
<len-1204> like from the boot menu.
<ScottL> len-1204, that is where the background/text issue manifested, i believe, but i'm going to test tonight too
<len-1204> OK, enjoy.
<knome> len-1204, you still on your netbook?
<len-1204> Yes
<knome> could you test something for me? (includes dlding a bzr branch and editing 1 file)
<len-1204> you would probably have to walk me through it.
<knome> i can
<len-1204> terminal?
<knome> do you have bzr installed?
<len-1204> Only if it comes with US, I have it on the other disk.
<knome> i don't think it does
<len-1204> nope.
<knome> sudo apt-get install bzr :)
<len-1204> Would it be more helpful if I reboot first? I have 11.10 xubuntu on the otgher disk.
<knome> xubuntu doesn't ship bzr by default either
<knome> it's a developer tool
<len-1204> I had it on there for playing with our defaulkt setting for menus.
<knome> but whatever works :)
<len-1204> But I am installing here now anyway
<knome> okay, after that: bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu 
<knome> that might take a while, even with faster internet, so poke me when that's done :)
<len-1204> 'k
 * knome grabs something small to eat+drink along with some painkillers
<astraljava> knome: You can just say so, if we're too painful for you to endure... *blink* *blink*
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-21
<knome> nope
<knome> i'm investigating to get it working for xubuntu too...
<len-1204> knome, DL complete.
<knome> oh right, the painkillers
<astraljava> Well I wasn't really referring to... yeah. :)
<knome> it all started with a broken, 2 meter tall door...
<astraljava> Ouch!
<knome> len-1204, okay, now open a file manager
<len-1204> Ja, done
<knome> len-1204, browse to ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/slideshows/ubuntustudio/slides/link/
<knome> len-1204, open base.css
<knome> len-1204, on line 69, it should say: height: 550px;
<knome> len-1204, change that to 470px
<knome> len-1204, you probably want to keep that file open for possible future editing
<knome> len-1204, then, go back to ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/
<knome> len-1204, ping me when done
<len-1204> knome ping
<knome> astraljava, remember our hallway cabinets? one of those doors fell of :)
<knome> len-1204, okay, now run test-slideshow.sh
<knome> len-1204, select ubuntustudio
<knome> and click okay
<knome> ;)
<knome> now, does the slideshow fit in your netbook monitor?
<astraljava> knome: Sorry to hear that. :(
<knome> astraljava, well, the pains come from *fixing* that...
<len-1204> knome: yes it fits with a white bar on the bottom. I can't see the bottom of the window itself. but that may be something else.
<knome> len-1204, so you still can't see the progressbar?
<knome> :<
<astraljava> knome: Not so sorry. EVO. :)
<knome> hahah.
<knome> well
<len-1204> There is more than enough room for the info that normally goes there.
<len-1204> Should I see one with this test.
<knome> astraljava, wife was leaving to work, when it fell off. he handed me the door and "i have to go now..."
<astraljava> ...as she should... :)
<knome> len-1204, hmm? i didn't quite follow you
<len-1204> should I see a progress bar with test-slideshow.sh? There is room for it.
<knome> yes
<knome> you should, it should actually appear just under the white line
<knome> try to alt+drag
<len-1204> knome, it appears the SS is cut off but the Pbar has not moved up then.
<knome> hmm
<knome> screenshot would help... :)
<knome> len-1204, actually, try this:
<knome> len-1204, in u-s-u/slideshows/ubuntustudio, edit slideshow.conf
<knome> and change the height value for 470
<len-1204> knome, the P bar is there all right. just under the screen.
<knome> after that, i'd *love* a screenshot
<len-1204> I have a screen shot now, but I will try that first then I will have more.
<knome> great
<len-1204> That works but I would like to try some more values... it could be taller.
<knome> can you give me a shot now, and i can tell you what you should try?
<knome> i mean, i can check the exact "free" pixel amount
<len-1204> Knome I have tried 520, How do I send you a screen shot? Can I ndo it with irc?
<knome> len-1204, http://imagebin.org/
<knome> len-1204, -> http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add
<knome> so 520 works too?
<knome> wonderful.
<knome> eeeeexcellent.
<ScottL> knome, will 520 change the layout drastically, specifically will i need to crop the images further?
<knome> ScottL, no, it will be done automatically.
<knome> ScottL, i mean, what is overlapping is just... overlapping and hidden :)
<len-1204> knome http://imagebin.org/204442
<ScottL> that looks good to me, i don't mind it "falling off" the bottom
<knome> len-1204, awesome
<ScottL> at least as much as "falling off" the right ;)
<knome> len-1204, thanks a lot for testing
<len-1204> knome, I set both heights to 520. In the two files we were playing with.
<knome> yup, that's great
<len-1204> knome do I have to do anything with the imagebin, or just leave it?
<knome> len-1204, just leave it, and as far as i'm concerned, feel free to remove the u-s-u directory too :)
<len-1204> When I do the next test install.... it will vanish...
<knome> that's right ;)
<knome> uaaaah.
<knome> :)
<knome> ScottL, you still on?
<ScottL> knome, yes
<ScottL> CFHowlett, are you mr. e ?
<knome> ScottL, feel free to test https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ubuntustudio
<ScottL> okay
<knome> ScottL, i already added a comment on the UIFe bug
<knome> but just to let you see this too ;)
<CFHowlett> yes I am.  why?
<CFHowlett> *gotta change that thing..."
<ScottL> knome, i noticed the slideshow had the window sliders/scroll on the bottom and the right
<ScottL> knome, and the slides seemed to move slowly (maybe it was just loading during installation)
<ScottL> oh, for item #1, it seemed that the background/image/text was too big for the "windows" and therefore required the scroll/sliders
<ScottL> CFHowlett, you sent me an email and i don't remember if i responded or not
<CFHowlett> ScottL   probably my request about the "etched ubuntu" proposed wallpapers.  I would like them to be released even if they're not in the official wallpaper package.
<CFHowlett> *please*
<ScottL> i have it on my list for this cycle, which is coming up near the top of the list
<ScottL> as long as i have a clear licensing on them i can do it :)
<ScottL> CFHowlett, ^^^
<CFHowlett> ScottL   good to know.  As I stated, that is some excellent art ... very appropriate for a design distro ...
<astraljava> ScottL: now that seeing CFHowlett here, reminded me about the support channel topic. Have you fixed it yet?
<astraljava> ...and this channel's topic could use some love, too. :)
<ScottL> sadly, i don't really remember what it was :/
<CFHowlett> I commented that the topic of #ubuntustudio gave excessive mention of audio production while virtually ignoring graphics and video.  I wrote up an alternate topic which I've now completely forgotten ...
<astraljava> CFHowlett: Do you have the suggestion available handy? I can dig it up from the logs if you don't.
<CFHowlett> astraljava   please find it in logs - about 45 days ago?  
<astraljava> irclogs/freenode/#ubuntustudio.log:2726:00:33 < cfhowlett> Greetings mods:  Suggested update to the default ubotto description of this channel: "Ubuntu Studio is a collection of multimedia tools for musicians, writers, film-makers, photographers, desktop-publishers, designers and other media digital artists."
<astraljava> CFHowlett: That one?
<CFHowlett> exactly!
<astraljava> ScottL: What do you think?
<ScottL> sounds good
<CFHowlett> switch  *digital media* artists
<ScottL> i can update this topic in a bit
<astraljava> Great! Thanks guys! Now just come up with something sane for this channel as well. :)
<CFHowlett> lol!
<ScottL> oh, the ubiquity background/text issue seems fixed
<astraljava> Schweet!
<CFHowlett> ScottL   last line should be *digital media artists*
<ScottL> i have a list that i'm checking off, which reminds me that i need to get back up there and check on it
<ScottL> CFHowlett, i'll fix it
<ScottL> hehe, the old topic in #ubuntustudio says 'we do not have a live cd"
<astraljava> ScottL: Err... how can it be? There is no us-live-settings package in the archives, yet.
<ScottL> astraljava, i haven't a clue actually
<astraljava> ScottL: I suppose a lot of documentation needs to be fixed regarding that message in many other places, too.
<ScottL> good question, but it worked correctly
<ScottL> astraljava, interstingly i'm not a channel operator in #ubuntustudio and therefore cannot change the topic :P
<ScottL> you, or someone else, may have to do that
<astraljava> ScottL: No big surprise. It's those blasted IRC mods who can't do their jobs properly... *snicker*
<ScottL> astraljava, after i check a few things, only take a few minutes, i will reinstall and test the ubiquity installer from the live FS
<astraljava> ScottL: I don't suppose I've been granted those privileges. I just assumed you had.
<astraljava> jussi: Can you check how the privileges for our channels have been distributed?
<ScottL> huh, my install is not finished yet and may be hung :(
<astraljava> ScottL: "Preparing to install Ubuntu-Studio" â why the dash?
<astraljava> Ugh... and we have Xubuntu's logo there, too.
<CFHowlett> astraljava  feel the same way about the x/logo.  That'll be the first fix I apply post-installation.
<astraljava> Isn't it "professional-grade", _with_ the dash there?
<ScottL> astraljava, where is this?
<ScottL> i *think* i found the problem with the 64bit image installation problem perhaps
<ScottL> it looks like update-manger-core (someversion.9) couldn't be installed as a dependencies
<ScottL> but the image was built
<ScottL> which i am presuming might have caused the installation to hang
<astraljava> ScottL: During the first few steps, there was that as a title. professional grade was in the slideshow. I'd also like to see the link as http://ubuntustudio.org, and some mention of IRC on the other row of the last slideshow page.
<ScottL> launchpad is showing that version 1:0.156.9 was published 9 hours and 20 minute ago which might mean some of these packages were not available during build time
<ScottL> i am surmising
<ScottL> astraljava, those are not the final slides, i have changes them significantly
<ScottL> astraljava,  bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<ScottL>  browse to ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<astraljava> ScottL: Ok, thanks.
<ScottL>  run test-slideshow.sh and select ubuntu studio
<ScottL> they are dramatically different and i don't think have the xubuntu logo anywhere (at least i hope not)
<ScottL> (not to denegrate the xubuntu logo)
<astraljava> Oh, it's hideous, but that's not the point. *grin*
<ScottL> which reminds me, knome i saw the email on the new xubuntu logo, i really like the new one quite a lot
<ScottL> lol astraljava 
<astraljava> Is there no Alt + F4 method for seeing what the installer is doing, like there is for alternate?
<astraljava> I still miss the alternate installer... *snif*
<astraljava> At least I can still play with it over on the Xubuntu side. :)
<ScottL> i tried did alt-f1 and checked casper.log and a few others
<ScottL> is alt-f4 special?
<astraljava> Alt+F1 doesn't seem to work i qemu at least. I'll try that on real hw install later.
<ScottL> i'll check tomorrow image (and check the email for other build failures)
<ScottL> astraljava, you can see the first slide from len-1204 's imagebin:  http://imagebin.org/204442
<astraljava> Yeah.
<astraljava> Looks very different from this one.
<astraljava> I'm having just different shades of gray.
<astraljava> ScottL: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/us_precise_dash-and-xubuntu-logo.png
<len-1204> astraljava, instead of alt-F4, I open a terminal and go: less /var/log/syslog
<len-1204> then when it runs type F (capital)
<len-1204> It is about the same as what was on alt F4
<len-1204> Just the install is different ... with the live dvd we are not opening packages....
<len-1204> tail -F doen't work BTW.
<ScottL> astraljava, ah, i see, i wonder where that is?
<astraljava> len-1204: Open a terminal? When ubiquity is running?
<ScottL> i'm guessing we need grep'ing xubuntu in our packages
<astraljava> len-1204: Oh, you went to the live session first?
<len-1204> I try to open it before, but if you are running live you should be able to... switch desktops helps too.
<astraljava> len-1204: But that's not possible when you chose to install it directly at the menu.
<len-1204> Ya, live session.
<len-1204> True.
<len-1204> Youe can still open a console and do it there... I have had problems in the past doing that though.
<astraljava> len-1204: Right, but is that possible when testing in qemu?
<len-1204> I have never tried that.
<len-1204> If you can cd to the root dir of the running iso image it should be possible.
<astraljava> Ha!
<astraljava> Ctrl+Alt+1, type `sendkey ctrl-alt-f1', Ctrl+Alt+1 again.
<astraljava> Oh sorry, should have been 2 at first.
<len-1204> astraljava, qemu is a virtual machine?
<astraljava> len-1204: Yep.
<astraljava> len-1204: You might have missed it, but there's an excellent testing tool for images, called testdrive. Makes it very easy to test dailies.
<len-1204> I looked at it, what I do is not that much more complex.
<astraljava> In it you can choose between various virtual machines, I picked up qemu-kvm as vbox failed in getting the guest on the internet.
<astraljava> len-1204: Of course it's not that hard to do zsync etc., but I found it pretty nifty.
<len-1204> I have a script on my desktop, double click and it syncs the iso. then print the usb stick and go.
<astraljava> Sure.
<len-1204> It is a real install on a real machine. I want to test that way. I "should" be doing more on my desktop.
<len-1204> It has an nvidea (or however they spell it) card.
<astraljava> Yeah I need to do more testing on hw, I've been lazy recently.
<astraljava> Nvidia/nVidia, I'm not sure either.
<len-1204> I have found the live session is really good the install seems identical
<len-1204> but install test ubiquity.
<len-1204> s/test/tests/
<kubotu> len-1204 meant: "but install tests ubiquity."
<astraljava> Good to hear. I assume I'll get used to it soon, then I'll carry around a USB stick with persistent data.
<len-1204> For "real" work, I have found memory a limit with live.
<len-1204> I only have 1G
<astraljava> Yep.
<astraljava> len-1204: But you can report a working i386 installation on real hw, right?
<astraljava> len-1204: I'll be attending a QA meeting tomorrow, it occurs before the new images are rolled, so I'll go with information on today's images.
<len-1204> yes, I don't have an amd64 or eqiv.
<len-1204> I think Scott was going to install tonight though.
<astraljava> len-1204: Neither Scott nor me could install amd64, it still hangs, which is probably a known glitch caused by a problem in update-manager-core package.
<len-1204> or did he say it failed already?
<astraljava> Yea.
<len-1204> 32 bit is ok.
<astraljava> Good, that pretty much confirms Scott's assumptions.
<len-1204> the other stuff is that I have been working on a workflow application launcher.
<len-1204> looks like a panel, but instead of applications it has workflows.
<astraljava> Nice.
<len-1204> select the workflow and the workflows go away to be replaced by the apps for that workflow.
<astraljava> Sounds interesting.
<len-1204> It is actually really simple (less than 300 lines) in script. I will post some screen shots soon.
<astraljava> Best inventions are the simplest. Well okay, may not apply to linux, but you get the point. :)
<len-1204> The idea is that a workflow meta would install the workflow to go with the applications. Or workflows if the apps will support more than one.
<len-1204> It looks at multiple config files, one for each workflow or more than one workflow per file works too.
<len-1204> The apps can be just a desktop file or exec and icon and name or desc.
<len-1204> It seems to work fine, but I am trying to make it more configurable.
<astraljava> Right on. It'll be a good addition for user-friendliness.
<len-1204> It is written in tcl/tk. The tool kit and libs have changed, but the scripting has stayed the same for a long time. I am using a book from 1997 and the stuff still works. No need to upgrade the software every time the lib changes
<len-1204> I'm looking for low maintenance.
<astraljava> Sure, it's a good pick for that then. :)
<TheMuso> grrr seems Tim's tree that our low latency kernel is based on had a few patches applied that seem to always cause conflicts when rebasing, and there shouldn't really be any conflicts, so far as I understand.
 * TheMuso starts with a fresh precise tree and re-adds necessary bits for low latency.
<TheMuso> And see if that helps.
<astraljava> TheMuso: Oh yea, I do recall seeing Alessio mentioning that same thing a while back.
<TheMuso> Hrm ok I wish I was told sooner.
<astraljava> He might have highlighted you, I'm not sure anymore.
<TheMuso> Don't think he did, because I don't remember reading it.
<TheMuso> no biggy though
<astraljava> irclogs/freenode/#ubuntustudio-devel.log:5463:16:41 < abogani> TheMuso: I'm going to drop Tim's changes to -lowlatency because those prevent git rebase.
<astraljava> March 13th.
<astraljava> So a little over a week ago.
<TheMuso> Oh right, that was what that was. That was not clear.
<TheMuso> I.e I couldn't work out what he meant.
<TheMuso> But whats interesting is that I'm having the same problem if I create a new low latency branch against precise-3.2.0-18.28
<TheMuso> and then rebase, I still get conflicts...
<astraljava> Weird.
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<astraljava> TheMuso: Well, I know you're very busy, so if you could document just very briefly on how you're creating new lowlatency branches against mainline kernels, I could try too to have an attempt of taking some of that load off your shoulders.
<TheMuso> astraljava: Will do, once I have something that rebases properly, sure.
<astraljava> Thanks! Imma try to catch some zzz's now. :)
<TheMuso> Ok.
<micahg> astraljava: I forgot, you need an FFe for the ubuntustudio-default-settings package since you're adding a new binary
<jussi> astraljava: /msg chanserv access #ubuntustudio-devel  list
<astraljava> jussi: Thanks! You could remove Joe from there, I don't think we'll see him anytime soon. :)
<astraljava> jussi: Add Scott instead.
<jussi> ScottL: is there...
<astraljava> Sorry, meant the support channel.
* astraljava changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: "Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | â micahg
<astraljava> gah.
* astraljava changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: "Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio"
<astraljava> oh bah
<astraljava> Well, it's better than cut-off sentences/links.
<astraljava> Let me know what you want to have on there, it's a tad short atm.
<knome> ScottL, scrollers? huh...
<knome> ScottL, i can't see them. were they in a 'real' installation?
<astraljava> knome: I saw scrollers in a qemu installation.
<astraljava> scrollbars...
<knome> >__<
<knome> damn...
<knome> but that was before the "520-patch" ?
<knome> clearly had to be
<knome> uh oh
<astraljava> Yeah for sure, I didn't tamper the settings at all.
<knome> that's crap.
<knome> in wonder what's wrong, since those don't show up in the test-slideshow-script
<astraljava> The script might not be a 100% match for that environment.
<knome> i wonder if they show up if you run the qemu installation and ran the test script there
<knome> do they show up there too, or is it only in the installer
<astraljava> I can check after "breakfast". :)
<ailo> TheMuso: Are you creating a new source tree, or will you manually edit the conflicts?
<ailo> And why is the tree based on Tim's tree (out of curiousity)?
<ailo> Who is Tim? Which tree is Tim's tree?
<astraljava> ailo: Tim is Tim Gardner, https://launchpad.net/~timg-tpi. A member of UKT.
<ailo> astraljava: I C. I recognize the name from mail lists. Just wondering if Tim's tree is the main Ubuntu tree, or something else. I believe the conflicts exist trying to rebase against the main ubuntu source
<astraljava> ailo: I'm fairly sure Tim's a key player in ubuntu kernel development now, so his additions are needed in order to having as close to vanilla kernel as possible.
<TheMuso> ailo: Creating a fresh source tree.
<ailo> TheMuso: Looking forward to some docs and like astraljava, I'll gladly help on that as well. 
<TheMuso> Ok.
 * TheMuso runs a quick test-build and test install before upload.
<TheMuso> Its late here tonight, so I am more concerned about getting this uploaded, but will document something in the next few days when I get a chance.
<TheMuso> Oh and I have fixed up the configs. Seems that abogani didn't properly set up the lowlatency config settings so they were used. Anyway, taken care of.
<astraljava> TheMuso: Thanks! Don't worry about the docs, I'll poke ya regularly about it. A huge thank you for your great work!
<TheMuso> Ok.
<TheMuso> np
<scott-work> jussi: could you moderate my and/or astraljava's permission for the #ubuntustudio channel so we can update the topic?
<scott-work> i guess we shoudl start thinking about what we should work on for next cycle
<astraljava> scott-work: I like the sound of that. :)
<astraljava> But first... I'm off to sauna. :)
<ttoine> astraljava, your life is hard ;-)
<ailo> astraljava: I only have access to a Swedish sauna. Hot, but dry :(. So, I'm envious.
<astraljava> Hehe. :)
<astraljava> ttoine: It's the only luxury in my life at the moment, trust me.
<astraljava> ailo: I hear ya. It's gotta be more moist, but not a turkish one either.
 * astraljava hopes for good results from a phone call in 4 hours. That could bring more luxury in my life, but not very fast either.
<ailo> The sauna I can use is a public one. It's very large and takes a long time to get moist. Too much work. Whenever I'm recording a Finnish dance band a bit outside of town, we always use the sauna there. Heated with wood. Now, that's a real sauna!
<astraljava> Chances are extremely slim, though.
<astraljava> Yeah, I'd prefer such, but it's not that good. Pretty nice for an electric, though.
<astraljava> Ok, see ya in an hour or so.
<ttoine> have a nice time
<ttoine> and "s h i t" for your phone call. (in france we don't say good luck)
<jussi> scott-work: I cant, sorry. you need to go and ask in #ubuntu-irc-council
<ailo> ttoine: Sort of like "Break a leg" then :)
<ttoine> ailo, ah ok. thanks. french is not so polite, I am confused
<ailo> ttoine: I might prefer French in this case
<ttoine> ;-)
<ttoine> ailo, the phonecall of astraljava is so important ?
<ailo> ttoine: Don't know. 
<ttoine> ailo, a question more about what matters : some news of a lowlatency kernel ?
<ailo> ttoine: There should be a new one available shortly. If I'm not quick enough to remind you, you should see it when you update. I would be happy to hear about your results also
<ttoine> ailo, great !
<scott-work> jussi: okay, thank you :)
<astraljava> ttoine: Heheh... Well yeah, anything will do. It's such a fat chance.
<astraljava> scott-work: We better get both channels dealt with at the same time. There are some outdated privileges on them both.
<astraljava> ttoine: It could be important, don't get me wrong. It would totally turn my life around.
<astraljava> But as so often, such occurences are extremely rare.
<ttoine> astraljava, yes...
<astraljava> ttoine: Which town were you living in, btw.?
<astraljava> Not Toulouse, I hope.
<ttoine> astraljava, ho, news are going far... I am living in Lyon, and I am not nor a soldier neither jewish...
<astraljava> ttoine: Ok, good. Although I just heard from a friend in Toulouse that they've surrounded the suspect, so hopefully it'll go smoothly from here on out.
<ttoine> yes. It was the biggest buzz of this day : news in realtime on the internet, information iv channels, etc... started 3am...
<astraljava> I can imagine. It's not happening every day, anywhere in Europe, after all.
<ttoine> yes. hopefully fire arms are not easily available in our countries
<astraljava> We just have to stay strong and fight the lobbyists.
<ttoine> and this guys made two mistakes : going in training centers of al qaida, and using rare guns and amunitions
<ttoine> I agree with you... I am the first french generation without having to pass through conscription
<ttoine> so i never wear a uniform, nor used any fire arms, except small calibers in clubs
<ttoine> it is a very great chance
<astraljava> In Finland, we still have mandatory service, so I've shot with guns, even big guns. But I don't like it. Even then, I do understand using them for defending, but not for attacking.
<astraljava> But this is all way too off-topic for this channel. :)
<ttoine> yes ;-)
<astraljava> micahg: Oh yeah, about the FFe, I'm on it right after the QA meeting. Thanks for the heads-up!
<micahg> astraljava: sorry for spacing on that
<scott-work> if i still planned on doing the following, are there any procedural (or otherwise) objstacles?
<scott-work> * adding more wallpapers to the -wallpapers package
<scott-work> * adjusting the -default-settings package for new desktop image
<scott-work> * adjusting the -lightdm package for new background image
<scott-work> * adjusting the -default-settings for different panel layout
<scott-work> * and adding sane, default settings for jack
<scott-work>   
<astraljava> micahg: Not at all, I should have realized it anyway.
<astraljava> micahg: I'm working on it already.
<astraljava> scott-work: Nothing ground-breaking, like this new package-adding that I'm working on. I see no problems, but then again I don't manage the releases. :)
<scott-work> astraljava: is micahg typing to you?  i don't see him :P
<astraljava> Hmm... yes, yes he is in the channel, at least according to weechat. :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Does nick completion work in the webchat?
<scott-work> i meant, you appear to be having a conversation with no one as i don't see any responses from him
<scott-work> yes, nick completion with with webchat
<astraljava> scott-work: Oh. Well yeah, he highlighted me about 15 minutes ago. :)
<scott-work> ah, that makes more sense then :P
<astraljava> Hehe, yeah. :)
<scott-work> oh, i guess i never really asked my direct question about what i said before (obstacles to continued development)....
<scott-work> will i need to file any FFe's for anything in the list
<scott-work> ?
<scott-work>   
<scott-work> also, micahg, is there anything else that needs to be done at this point for security?  have we done enough for me to email the TB?  are there issues to follow up on later?
<micahg> scott-work: I think that's it, the idea was to know how much effort will be necessary to support US specific packages over the life of the US LTS, if you're comfortable with the amount of work, then you can include that information in response to the TB
<micahg> well, include the info anyway, I meant if you're comfortable, you can continue with your petition :)
<micahg> there's bug fix work also in addition to the devel release work
<scott-work> micahg: i think that development should be reduced in the next few cycles, simply because we made such large fundamental progress this cycle
<micahg> scott-work: development includes merges/syncs (after DIF that are wanted) and bug fixes
<scott-work> good point
<micahg> s#/#,#
<micahg> I've been watching the merges/sync, but would prefer someone else to keep an eye on those for Q
<micahg> we can discuss that at UDS
<scott-work> micahg: that would be awesome (both to me more involved in it and to talk about it), i do remember you broached the subject at last UDS
<astraljava> micahg: bug #961371, tried to follow the FFe procedure as to the point as applicable.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961371 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please update ubuntustudio-default-settings for precise" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961371
<micahg> astraljava: yep, now we just have to wait I guess
<len_> knome ping
<knome> len_, pong
<len_> knome re scroll bars on ubiquity slide show.
<knome> yes?
<len_> I remember they didn't used to be there but then the progrss bar was like the test.
<knome> len_, they appear on hardware?
<knome> len_, or, are you running on qemu
<len_> When they added the text stuff, the scroll bars appeared
<knome> "text stuff" ?
<len_> Yeah the text that says things like transfering files or configuring target system
<knome> again, is this appearing on hardware
<len_> This is also true of the stock ubuntu slide show.
<len_> yes, I do all my testing on hardware.
<knome> oh my... though, it's good to know it happens on the ubuntu slide show too.
<knome> if there isn't a bug, could you file one?
<len_> Yes, I am downloading the sync for todays iso, I will file after I test.
<knome> thanks
<knome> please paste me the bug # after you've filed, and i'll forward it
<len_> Ok
<astraljava> micahg: Right. Couldn't you get into the release team, so we could work these out quicker? *smirk*
<micahg> heh, I think I have enough hats ATM :)
<len_> I haven't looked at unity for a while, maybe I'll DL that too. Might get faster response that way for a bug that effects that.
<astraljava> I'm not sure, so far you seem to perform all of your roles perfectly. Perhaps there is some un-used potential, still? ;D
<knome> hurr durrr
 * knome filed YET another UIFe
<micahg> astraljava: haha, glad you think so :)
<astraljava> micahg: Well, any sane person would. Oh wait, then I don't fit in that category. Well anyhoo, I do. :)
<ttoine> knome, iyho, what should be the best way to install xfce on ubuntu precise beta. the xubuntu-desktop metapackage ? or just xfce4 package ?
<knome> ttoine, i'd suggest installing the xubuntu-desktop, but of course you'd get extra apps
<ttoine> that's the matter, yes
<micahg> ttoine: use --no-install-recommends (but this is the wrong channel for xfce anyways)
<ttoine> that's not a big problem in unity, because there is no true menu. but maybe in xfce, it should be a bit overloaded by the apps
<ttoine> micahg, this is not the bad channel : I would like to test xfce, in order to complete the ubuntustudiopreparation wiki page
<ttoine> micahg, so you suggest apt-get install --no-install-recommends xubuntu-desktop ?
<micahg> ttoine: yes, you'll end with with a base Xfce desktop with the xubuntu branding
<ttoine> great, thanks a lot for that tip !*
<astraljava> I still hate that decision, a bit, but then occasionally I want to install all suggested packages, too, so I do acknowledge it's dancing on a thin wire. :)
<ttoine> astraljava, about changing for xfce ?
<ttoine> micahg, hop, it's documented
<astraljava> ttoine: No, about apt-get.
<micahg> well, the definition of recommends are packages that would be installed usually with this package, so it makes sense
<micahg> you can configure apt not to install recommends if you like
<astraljava> micahg: Sure. It's just that sometimes you don't actually need them all. But I do get the point.
<micahg> right, they are removable
<astraljava> micahg: What actually bothers me is that sometimes I stumble upon suggests that just aren't there anymore.
<astraljava> So cannot really set that as a persistent option.
<micahg> astraljava: file bugs when that happens :)
<astraljava> I have.
<astraljava> Jelmer fixed some bzr-related package just recently that I reported. But not all maintainers care that much.
<astraljava> Right, I suppose it's bug-hunting time, all TODOs have been acted upon.
<ttoine> as always, anyone has some news about the lowlatency kernel ?
<ailo> ttoine: No idea, but perhaps not today, and it may take a few even.
<ttoine> ok. I restart to test the xubuntu desktop, so
<astraljava> ttoine: Luke fixed the config issue, and created a new package ver. 3.2.0-19.27, but it hasn't creeped it's way into the archives just yet.
<astraljava> You can find it the source package @ https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-lowlatency/3.2.0-19.27
<astraljava> -it
<astraljava> ...or is it crept? Yeah I think it is.
<astraljava> rexbron_: Do you actually use the nightly builds for ffmpeg?
<rexbron_> astraljava: I use git master right now
<rexbron_> are you refering to zombie packages?
<astraljava> rexbron_: So we can disable the request now?
<rexbron_> astraljava: Link? I can't say I recall what your refering to
<astraljava> I'm seeing those double emails every day on the list, so it seems it's not really usable.
<astraljava> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-nightly/+archive/ubuntustudio-nightly/+recipebuild/200616
<astraljava> rexbron_: That's what I was afraid of, and why I brought it up. It's probably safe to delete it, since even you don't remember it anymore. :)
<astraljava> You, after all, are the requester.
<rexbron_> astraljava: by all means
<astraljava> rexbron_: Thanks!
<ttoine> hop... in xubuntu desktop
<ttoine> TheMuso, I see you
<ScottL> TheMuso,  what do you think about making a blueprint for determining and documenting the "proper" maintenance for the lowlatency kernel?
<ScottL> TheMuso, this would be from why it's kept in the git repos, to rebasing, and to releasing
<TheMuso> ScottL: WHy do you think it needs a blueprint? It just needs some good docs.
<ScottL> TheMuso, i didn't know if it needs input from Tim or UKT and with the UDS coming i thought it would be a good venue to "encourage" their participation
<TheMuso> ScottL: No, I don't think it needs their input.
<ScottL> TheMuso, ack
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-22
<len_> knome, 520 pix ends up too much. The slideshow test is not valid for what really happens... nother bug.
<knome> len_, fsst.
<knome> i'm not sure if i'm willing to file another UIFe for that
<len_> At least with 520, it was obvious that there was something going on below as I could see the top half of the text.
<knome> okay
<knome> that worksforme for P
<knome> it's so much easier to fix this for Q
<len_> The scroll bars where not there for all the slides.
<knome> okay, weird
<knome> well, not really
<knome> but that shouldn't happen at all
<len_> Yeah, my Yf needed some time with me and then the install was over so I didn't look at it real well.
<len_> I have just dropped ubuntudesktop on a stick and will see what that does
<astraljava> Yf? You have a Yeti-friend?
<len_> Says the Y sound the f Yf = wife
<knome> omg
<knome> nerdspeadk
<knome> -d
<len_> Old ham speak I think
<knome> at least i didn't typo that as nerdspeakd, a deamon for that would be scary
<knome> hmph.
<len_> I will try to get some screen shots during install this time... and do a second US install as well.
<knome> let's say i'll think of fixing that after beta2.
<knome> it's not critical, so i might just leave it
<len_> It is probably ok for the bootmenu install because I don't think there is a top panel getting in the way.
<knome> bootmenu? :)
<knome> right, you mean the *actual* installation?
<len_> Yeah do thingy that says test without installing or install.
<knome> right
<len_> I have been installing from live session... as I would think most people would do that... otherwise why have live DVD?
<knome> len_, i don't think that's either-or
<knome> somebody might use the live dvd to actually work on things
<knome> but that works for the person just wanting to install too
<knome> and with live, you can check if your hardware works
<len_> Yup once you up live and go "ok I like this" it makes sense to just install rather than reboot to install. is what I meant... I think
<knome> yeah.
<knome> but since ubuntu studio only provides one method, there's no alternative. so those just wanting to install will use the same build too
<knome> no good reason to provide something else for that, it would just mean more work :)
<astraljava> Sure, but that'd be the first-time trial use-case only. I wouldn't think anyone wanting to boot to a live session just to install on possibly another machine, or re-install, or whatever.
<knome> yup
<astraljava> ...which is why I'm testing the straight-to-install use-case, mostly.
<knome> otoh, the first-time trial is probably the time you want to look at the slideshow, too
<astraljava> len_: Looks like it's getting past all ubiquity hangs, now. Do we have a winner on our hands?
<astraljava> knome: Sure.
<knome> i will rest a few nights well before filing any more Fe's :)
<knome> bleh.
 * knome will take backups
<astraljava> I won't give any.
<astraljava> *blink* *blink*
<knome> awwhm :P
<astraljava> Yeah, it boots! But it looks weird.
<knome> astraljava, you looking at a mirror?
<astraljava> len_: You have battled the UI with ScottL, right? Can you move on those issues?
<astraljava> knome: I don't have boots.
<knome> but you probably can boot
<knome> and, you just agreed you look weird. gotcha.
<astraljava> ...yo 4$$, for sure.
<knome> well that's not too hard
<knome> there's plenty of area to land the kick
 * astraljava tiptoes around the subject, but decides to leave it untouched.
<astraljava> Take that as you wish.
<knome> probably best
<astraljava> Ok, I think that'll do for this session. I'm heading for some zzz's. Catch ya later.
<ScottL> astraljava, i'm not sure i understand what you are asking?
<knome> good night!
<knome> going to file one more RT ticket today...
<ScottL> i'm burning an image now that i've zsync'd
<ScottL> then i'm going down my checklist of things that were supposed to be "fixed"
<astraljava> ScottL: For instance, the app menu icon: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/us_20120321.png
<knome> that's awesome
<knome> the ubuntu studio has got some great momentum behind that logo change
<knome> (:
<astraljava> knome: Remember, I know where you live.
<knome> hah
<astraljava> ScottL: Oh, some other issues seem to have disappeared by the time of taking that screen shot, nevermind, that icon thingie is the only one I spot, now.
<astraljava> But yeah, the zzz's.
<knome> nighty night
<ScottL> astraljava, i'm guessing that the default-settings weren't updated yet
<ScottL> or they were and i forgot to 'bzr add' the image?  i dont' think so, i think i just replaced it
 * knome is available, if you need help with transparent PNGs ;)
<ScottL> knome, i don't think so, i made the transparent PNG , built, and tested it
<ScottL> strange thing is that i'm not seeing my push to the -default-settings package
<knome> hmm
<ScottL> wait, maybe i was looking under 'ubuntu'
<ScottL> hold on
<knome> heh
<ScottL> yeah, yeah...i kept looking at the rev number and thinking that wasn't right ;)
<ScottL> okay, it's there (including janne's changes), just hasn't been updated
<knome> yup
<knome> i think i need to hit the bed
<knome> nothing to do any more
<knome> well, at least nothing to do today ;)
<ScottL> goodnight knome 
<knome> good night, or day, to you too scott
<ScottL> micahg, i touched -default-settings, -look, and -lightdm-theme packages
<ScottL> micahg, this is basically it for what i'm planning to do now
<ScottL> i don't expect to touch anything again this cycle unless there is something broken
<len-nb> Here are some screen shots of the slide show during install. http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/slideSSs.html
<len-nb> ScottL ^^^ FYI
<ScottL> oh micahg , i mispoke, i wanted to update the panel layout, which i'll get tomorrow
<micahg> ScottL: ok, freeze is at 21:00 UTC
<ScottL> that is in 17 hours +/-
<micahg> right
<holstein> w0w
<holstein> thats exciting!
<len-nb> This is not for this cycle... but I would be interested in what people think: http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/workflow.html
<micahg> new libav coming, I'm updating the -extra package as well (BTW, extra for the most part will go away in 12.10)
<len-nb> micahg, extra will go away means "won't be available" or folded in to the normal package?
<micahg> folded in
<micahg> already in Debian experimental
<len-nb> Good
<ttoine> Hi
<ScottL> is it normal to get up 1.58 hours earlier than i would (or want) just to get some coding done?
<ScottL> micahg, i've updated the -default-settings package one more time for panel tweaks
<ScottL> i couldn't get some of the settings to work as i had wanted (like not raising window when just scrolling on it), but practically everything else was done
<knome> ScottL, does 1.58 mean 1h 58mins or 1h, 35mins and a few seconds?
<knome> sorry, 1h, 34mins, ...
<ScottL> aye, 1 hour and 34 minutes
<ScottL> i normally get up at 07:00 on tuesdays and thrusday because i get the daughter up and on the bus and take my youngest son to daycare
<ScottL> i set the alarm for 06:00 thinking that one hour would be enough
<ScottL> but i woke up somewhere before 5:30, starting thinking about what i needed to do, and couldn't go back to sleep
<ScottL> i'm glad i did because i would not have had enough time with just 1 hour
<knome> heh
 * knome is working on http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_countdown/draft-2.png
<len_> knome ping
<knome> len_, pong
<len_> knome re scroll bars in install slides... I had them show up last night but by the time I could get the menu open to get a screen shot they where gone
<knome> len_, aha :)
<len_> I think they fixed it by looking for them every time the progress area updates and getting rid of them
<knome> right
<knome> i see no change in code but - fine :)
<len_> Anyway knome, I don't know if you saw them or not, but there are some screen shot of the slide show in an email on our list or in the back scroll on irc.
<knome> i'll look
<len_> Whenever, I gotta eat.
<knome> that looks good
<knome> or, that looks as it should :)
<knome> thanks, and bon appetit
<ttoine> hi
<scott-work> hi ttoine :)
<ttoine> scott-work, what are the news ?
<scott-work> ttoine: did my final push for this cycle, except for fixing bugs now
<ttoine> ok
<ttoine> and what about the kernel ?
<scott-work> we didn't really hit the goal that i had wanted, but we did accomplish a lot of stuff :)
<scott-work> ttoine: TheMuso acknowledged the problem and was fixing it
<ttoine> scott-work, maybe you should write somewhere the goals of your long plan ;-)
<ttoine> scott-work, I just see that the -lowlatency kernel is in the updates. So it will be my haste of the afternoon to update and test !
<scott-work> ttoine: i had meant to have already documented the long plan and publish it for comments/suggestions
<scott-work> but i've been pretty busy during this cycle
<scott-work> but now that it's the tail end i should have more time to do this
<ttoine> ok. so maybe you will have more time after release ?
<scott-work> i still have some stuff to do (like the website, knome ) but i really have more time now :)
<ttoine> scott-work, is it something that we can discuss, or you meant it fixed ?
<scott-work> ttoine:  we can absolutely discuss it
<ttoine> great to know it ;-)
<scott-work> we have discussed a general direction as a group and we decided that focusing the distro to new users to linux provides the biggest area of opportunity to...
<scott-work> 1. fill a need
<scott-work> 2. help make people aware of and use linux (who are not already)
<scott-work> this doesn't mean we can't provide robust or powerful applications, however
<scott-work> we will just give extra attention to documentation and simplifying process to make everything as accessible as possible
<scott-work> i think a mission statement would be helpful to identifying and articulating our goal
<ttoine> scott-work, this morning I was at a meeting about teaching and producing multimedia with free software, and people were greatly impressed that we can actually do good stuff with quite simple apps, stability and old laptops
<ttoine> I was pleased to use xfce, too, this morning.
<ttoine> I hope that this will give me some work
<scott-work> that is awesome, ttoine  :)
<scott-work> i hope we can continue to provide you the necessary support
 * scott-work is going to reboot work (windows) computer
<ttoine> scott-work, this release of ubuntu studio may be a definitive "foot ahead" for people wanting to show, teach and use free software as an alternative of OS X
<ailo> ttoine: I'm just about to try the latest -lowlatency myself. It has the right config as expected, so it should perform well
<ttoine> great to know that
<ttoine> I am updating my workstation at the moment
<scott-work> ttoine: i am hoping so, many things needed maintenance because parts were falling apart
<ttoine> scott-work, yes, it is true. Maybe the only point that would make windows and os x users have a negative point of vue at the first time will be the look and feel of xfce, wich is not really "up to date"
<scott-work> ttoine: why do you say xfce is not up to date?
<ttoine> ailo, what is your first impression ?
<scott-work> i think functionaly (i.e.  managing windows, using menus, etc) is comparable to windows (the OS)
<ailo> ttoine: It's fine for fine
<scott-work> perhaps the lack of transparent window dressings might cause some to think less of xfce, but it can be done too at a possible cost to performance
<ttoine> scott-work, xfce is not animated, etc... like os X, for example. and the pannel at the top may be confuse the windows users. I just speak in general term, not telling that xfce is old in the design point of vue
<scott-work> ttoine: your feedback is quite welcome and appreciated, btw
<scott-work> i wish we could get other feedback as well
<ailo> XFCE is probably the best choice for a default WM right now, as the others pose too many problems
<scott-work> ttoine: what do you think of the bottom part of this page, the UI Layout area?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialOneiric
<ailo> I myself use Gnome3. On Ubuntu it does yet not have the addon stuff that makes it customizable, like adding a menu to the top bar. Debian testing has recently added that, so it will end up in Ubuntu later on.
<ailo> Also, it's leaking memory at the moment
<ttoine> I agree with ailo about the DE choice
<ttoine> ailo, you should have a look at the linux mint 12 repositories
<ailo> Too mint for me :)
<ttoine> but finally, I am well with unity
<scott-work> ttoine: it sounds like perhaps we should educate new users about our choice of DE as well
<ttoine> scott-work, for me, the best is the full blue one. bright, clear. It is not because it is production that it must be dark. New users (and I know them well...)  will always prefer a bright theme. Dark themes are considered for geeks ;-)
<ailo> The Ambience theme is a nice combination of ligt and dark. I don't like full dark themes usually, from a practical point of view.
<ailo> I always prefer the combination of perfect usability with an esthetic touch
<ttoine> ailo, I agree
<ttoine> But to create a desktop like that, one has to be an artist, not only a programmer. I hope that we will be able to get that with xfce. Maybe we should consider having a look at xfce-look.org or something like that and select a beautiful theme, and then just change a bit to integrate ubuntu studio artwork
<ailo> If someone finds a nice theme, then I suppose the best thing would be to contact the person who made it. Also, many themes are derived already from something else
<scott-work> we can certainly look into creating (or finding) a lighter, bluer, clearer theme that would appeal to new users
<ttoine> scott-work, I don't think that blue should be the main color
<ttoine> there should be some bit of blue, on a well done friendly theme, with great look and feel
<ttoine> having the blue logo is, or the blue wallpaper may be enough
<scott-work> we could also look at an installation question with images that prompts the user to choose a theme
<ttoine> scott-work, yes, that is a very good idea. but it may be a lot of work to de that prompt
<ttoine> ailo, the pulseaudio-module-jack is definitively not friendly with low latency... is this really a bug ??
<scott-work> ttoine: that is entirely possible, we really did not accomplish much testing of the pulse-jack bridging due to the late entry of the lowlatency kernel into the repo
<ttoine> scott-work, I think that the problem is more about unity
<ttoine> I will investigate
<scott-work> thank you, ttoine 
<ttoine> scott-work, at the moment, the user has to be in audio group, or real-time group to use realtime ?
<ttoine> just to check ?
<ailo> ttoine: audio group
<scott-work> user in audio group
<scott-work> ailo, beat me :P
<scott-work> i checked that last night from yesterday's image and i found the user in the audio group
<ailo> ttoine: The file /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf is what decides that
<scott-work> likewise i found that the etc/security/limits/....
<scott-work> lol, again, ailo beat me
<ttoine> ailo, I know...
<scott-work> ttoine: we had trouble with jack being configured for a while, it was leaving the file as etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf.disabled
<ttoine> but what is strange in unity, as soon as any audio app is connected to jack, I have x-runs...
<ailo> This might change in the future though, cause audio group is used for something else too
<ttoine> ailo, scott-work, yes, it should be realtime users
<ttoine> group
<ailo> ttoine: Debian will probably change that
<ailo> ttoine: Using -lowlatency, you get xruns? At which setting?
<ttoine> 5.3ms
<ttoine> very strange.
<ailo> ttoine: Oh, and I haven't investigated the PA-jack bridge yet, so try disabling that
<ailo> ttoine: Yes, but which setting for period/buffer and so on?
<ttoine> currently, no x-run at all if only jack is launched in unity. even if the cpu il very loaded
<ttoine> as soon as I start ardour, a lot of x-run appear, even if I don't do anything
<ailo> ttoine: From loading the app, or running it?
<ailo> ttoine: And do you get the same thing using XFCE?
<ailo> I'm using Gnome3 with no problems. I could try Unity too, but I suspect there will be no difference. Also, XFCE uses the same Gnome3 stuff for the apps
<ttoine> from loading, AND using it (or not using it but let them open)
<ailo> ttoine: So, which period/buffer are you using?
<ailo> ttoine: I have no problem with Unity. Same performance on all WM's for me
<ailo> ttoine: Also, you are sure you have realtime privilege?
<ttoine> ailo, I am in the audio group, I use 64 and 3 
<ailo> ttoine: Did you install PA-jack bridge separately, or as a part of a Ubuntustudio package?
<ailo> As I understand, you are like me, running an Ubuntu install, not an Ubuntustudio one
<ailo> I started getting xruns because pulseaudio now
<ailo> Hadn't investigated using the same device for both PA and jack
<ailo> That's when I start getting problems
<ttoine> ailo, I uninstalled it, and deleted the hided file my home, to reset the prefereces of any apps
<ttoine> ailo, yes it seems to create problem when using the pa plugin
<ailo> I really have no idea about how the pa-jack bridge works on US, but removing pulseaudio-module-jack made my xruns disappear
<ailo> This should be thouroughly tested on Ubuntustudio
<ailo> Better to remove pa-jack bridge if it's not working well
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> it is far better now, without the pa bridge
<ttoine> I think that using a usb sound card is not the best too
<ailo> ttoine: Did you have the bridge working at any time? I know it works somewhat on Ubuntustudio, but as I said, I don't know how it works
<ailo> ttoine: So, you're happy with the performance now?
<ttoine> the bridge worked well
<ttoine> no, I can see what is the problem, currently...
<ttoine>  I am still having a lot of x-runs, even if I do nothing with the apps
<ttoine> uname -r
<ailo> 3.2.0-20-lowlatency?
<ttoine> yes
<ailo> And you restarted jack?
<ttoine> ailo, do you have any restricted video driver on your pc ?
<ailo> ttoine: Yes. nvidia
<ttoine> same...
<ailo> ttoine: btw, are you using jackdmp?
<ttoine> I think
<ailo> ttoine: If you're using qjackctl, just disable the D-bus interface from qjackctl/Setup/Misc
<ailo> jackdmp doesn't work well at all for me
<ailo> It would be best to not have that enabled by default
<micahg> ScottL: astraljava: 2 things ahead of you in my queue ATM, so, we need uploads of default-settings, -look, and -lightdm-theme + the -meta?
<ttoine> ailo, I can only use jackd, other options don't work
<ttoine> it not different without dvus
<ttoine> dbus
<ailo> ttoine: If you have jackd2 installed, and have the dbus option toggled on, you should be running jackdmp, not jackd
<ttoine> jackd2 is installed, dbus option is not activated and I run the default jackd option
<ttoine> if I try jackdmp, jack don't start
<ttoine> jackdmp
<ailo> ttoine: I noticed one has to restart qjackctl in order for that to take effect
<ttoine> sorry, wrong keyboard
<ttoine> ailo, ok. I do that now, so
<ailo> To check which one is running, i do this: ps -e | grep jack
<falktx> jackdmp never existed in debian
<ttoine> falktx, jackd2 is jackdmp in debian, no ?
<falktx> no
<falktx> it's all jackd
<ailo> Have to go for a while. Downloading lates US, so I will test it later
<ttoine> ok
<ttoine> ailo, ok
<ttoine> I think it is the usb sound card
<ttoine> I will try with more latency
<ailo> ttoine: Please compare with -realtime if you can. I'd like to hear about your results
<ailo> I still need to test on another machine as well
<ttoine> ailo,  it ok at near 8ms latency
<ttoine> no more problem
<ttoine> falktx, what are the differences between jackd1 and jackd2 in debian/ubuntu ?
<falktx> afaik, they are:
<falktx> - dbus mode only for jack2
<falktx> (it could be done for jack1, but needs a patch)
<falktx> when a jack app starts and jack is stopped, jack will:
<falktx> - jack1 -> start jackd
<falktx> - jack2 -> start jackd and ignore jackdbus settings completely
<falktx> ^that is a terrbile thing
<falktx> also apps are usually compiled on jack1, so some have small issues when jack2 is used
<ttoine> falktx, what is the interest of dbus ?
<falktx> ttoine: IPC mostly. we can ask for jack stuff, configure it, manage it completely without ever touching jackd
<falktx> it's a bit technical
<falktx> but the main reason is to get rid of jackd, and manage jack "internally"
<ttoine> not only a bit. what do you mean by IPC ?
<falktx> ttoine: being able to communicate between apps
<falktx> jackdbus makes an a jack possible, when it doesn't even use the jack library
<ttoine> falktx, so if jackd2 is installed, and I use qjackctl, should I disable dbus ? or let it enabled ?
<falktx> very useful for patchbays
<falktx> ttoine: I prefer to have dbus enabled. but qjackctl's dbus support is not very good
<ttoine> falktx, at the moment, I can record 26 tracks at a time at nearly 8ms of latency, on a usb sound card
<ttoine> seems to be quite good
<falktx> not related to the conversation, but yes, that is very good
<falktx> oh
<ttoine> if i try lower latency, even if i do nothing, i have xruns... strange, no ?
<falktx> ttoine: possibly jackdbus also allows jack+pulseaudio to live more friendly, but I never tried it
<ttoine> falktx, I think I will try again the pa-jack bridge with more latency
<falktx> I always force-bridge PA when needed
<falktx> I mostly use snd-aloop + alsa_in/out now though
<ttoine> the matter is for people having only a firewire sound card, the only way to have system sound is by the pa-jack bridge. although, this is not a common case
<ttoine> too bad that the realtime kernel doesn't support restricted drivers... I can't compare the two kernel on may workstation...
<falktx> ttoine: snd-aloop works for firewire as well
<falktx> it outputs all alsa sound apps to jack
<ttoine> yes, you need jack and ffado, so
<falktx> later
<ttoine> scott-work, after several trials, it seems that with my soundcard, I can work at a minimum latency of 5ms
<ttoine> If I try less, I can start jack but I will have a lot of x-runs
<ttoine> the pa-jack bridge works if d-bus is activated, thanks to falktx for the trick
<ttoine> so it is a very good kernel hacking !!!
 * ttoine will be back
<astraljava> micahg: Yeah, I think that's about right. The new one is -live-settings.
<micahg> astraljava: that's part of -default-settings though
<micahg> astraljava: that's only needed in the live env though, right?
<astraljava> micahg: Oh, yeah.
<ailo> ttoine: You could uninstall the graphic drivers and then compare -realtime with -lowlatency
<ttoine> ailo, yes, I think I will do that
<ailo> Also make sure there's no xorg.conf after you reboot
<ttoine> ailo, currently, 5,2ms is quite good for 26 tracks recorded at a time ;-)
<ttoine> with pa-jack bridge activated
<ailo> I don't like to use ms as a way to measure because it's not sure it's the actual produced latency
<ailo> When I talk with people about what frames/period they like to use many say they need 32, but for me, 64 is enough
<ttoine> I hope I can try with pci sound card like rme...
<ttoine> my sound card will not start at 32
<ailo> ttoine: How do you enable the pa-jack bridge?
<ttoine> just by installing the pulseausio-module-jack package. falktx suggest that d-bus has to be enabled if you do so
<ailo> Using dbus with pulseaudio-modules-jack is fine now, but no bridge. 
<ttoine> and it works very well
<ailo> A funny thing happened to me also. I started Totem, and suddenly PA was outputting to another sound device which was not chosen by either jack or PA
<ttoine> ailo, once jack is started, check with patchage that pulseaudio is visible
<ttoine> then, in audio preferences of ubuntu, change the defaut sound card to jack-sink
<ailo> I don't use patchage. Only qjackctl. 
<ttoine> and you will have the system sound on jack
<ttoine> qjackctl patchbay is an alternative to patchage ;-)
<ttoine> but if the module is installed, you should see pulseaudio in the patchbay
<scott-work> i had successfully used dbus enabled jack to output to two different soundcards simultaneous; one from ardour via jack, the other youtube via pulse
<ailo> scott-work: That's not dbus. That's just regular jack + PA at the same time
<scott-work> ailo: no, i couldn't do that before because qjackctl would suspend pa
<scott-work> i realize that is a wrapper script
<ailo> scott-work: Yes, but it's still not connected to dbus
<scott-work> i thought it was, i thought qjackctl was setup to use jackdbus
<ailo> I've been doing that for many years. So, when qjacktl had that wrapper script, I just disabled it
<ailo> scott-work: Doesn't matter whether it is jackdbus or jackd. As long as PA and jack have different devices chosen, they can operate at the same time
<ttoine> ailo, scott-work, yes, you need dbus to be activated to have to separated cards working one with pulse audio, one with jackd, I confirm
<ailo> ttoine: That is not true
<ailo> You can do this with jackdbus, jackd1, jackd2
<ttoine> ok, will check that
<ailo> Has nothing to do with jackdbus. It's just two different programs running simultaniously. Both using alsa drivers
<ttoine> ailo, do you see the pulseaudio i/o in the jack patchbay ??
<ailo> ttoine: Nope
<ailo> I'm going to test Ubuntustudio now
<ailo> bb
<ttoine> did you restart ?
<scott-work> ailo: what is the difference between "bridging" and using dbus then?
<scott-work> i thought i understood this, but obviously i do not
<ailo> scott-work: Bridgin means pulseaudio is using jack as it's output, instead of an actual audio device
<ailo> When you have pa outputting it's audio to jack, only one audio card is in use, and that card is controlled by jack alone
<ailo> ttoine: No, I didn't restart, and that was clearly the problem. (logging in/out would have been enough)
<ailo> (or to restart pulseaudio?)
<scott-work> what does the pulseaudio-jack-module do then?
<scott-work> is that bridging? or using d-bus
<ttoine> yes, just the session is enough
<scott-work> ?
<ailo> scott-work: As it seems, pulseaudio-module-jack is making it possible for pulseaudio to use jack as it's output, instead of an audio device
<ttoine> the module creates first of all a virtual sound card for pulse audio, the jack-sink
<scott-work> so that would be "bridging", no?
<ttoine> then, in jack, it creates pulseaudio i/o and connect it per default to the first i/o of jack
<ailo> It would be nice if PA auto selected jack as it's output. Maybe that's the reason it didn't work in Ubuntustudio?
<ttoine> but if you forget to tell pulse audio to use the jack-sink, it will not do it, so you still need to go to the sound preferences of the system and do it
<scott-work> how did you enable dbus for this to work?
<ailo> scott-work: dbus is enable by default in qjackctl settings
<ailo> Added recently as an option
<ailo> Didn't exist before
<ttoine> you don't do anything. in the qjackctl, just check that the d-bus option in enabled
<scott-work> ailo: okay, david h. had mentioned this but given some previous conversation in this channel today i was beginning to question this and my experience :P
 * ttoine need to restart
<ailo> scott-work: The only problem I see with this is that, at least for me, qjackctl is not good at stopping jackdmp. It fails to stop it, and then I need to kill the process manually
<ailo> I already filed a bug about it some time ago
<ailo> Also, the way pulseaudio interacts with jack is great, but still a little too manual. 
<ailo> But, that one can live with :)
<scott-work> ailo: i saw the bug
<scott-work> i have had the same experience, but i figured it was my ignorance about jack and dbus and i needed to do somethign else to fix it
<scott-work> i've been focused on other things (obviously)
<scott-work> ailo: but it doesn't always happen for me
<ailo> scott-work: Same here. It happens every other time, or so
<scott-work> i seem to recall that it happened more frequently after i started and stopped jack severl times
<ailo> Would be good to get rid of the warning message that qjackctl gives when stopping jack, when the only thing running is pulseaudio
<ailo> Well, that's a qjackctl problem anyway
<ailo> I really don't like that qjackctl doesn't stop jackdmp well. This will make the LTS not feel like an LTS.
<ailo> More like work in progress
<scott-work> yeah :/
<ailo> Personally, I'd use jackd as default, and give docs on how to enable jackdbus
<scott-work> we hit some incredibly major milestones, but 12.04 isn't the penultimate release that i had hoped for
<ailo> -lowlatency is a great addition. Also, the XFCE transition is a major change
<scott-work> ailo: i had hoped to spend time testing the bridging or dbus integration (or whatever) with david h. this cycle, but i was delayed working on other stuff and so was the lowlatency kernel
<scott-work> but this would be a very good item for next cycle and document it as well
<ailo> With a little luck, any problems related to jackdmp will vanish by the time for next release
<ailo> I'm really the guy who should be working on those items. Did not have the time or opportunity to really get involved until recently. 
<ailo> I mean, since everyone else is fairly occupied with all sorts of other things
<ailo> My new usb stick was not bootable :/. Back to my old one
<scott-work> ailo: what other things would you like to see done in the next cycle or what else would you suggest we look into?
<knome> add a mouse in the wallpaper!
 * knome hides
<scott-work> actually i have it in my notes to remove the mouse from the installation partition image :P
<knome> bleh
 * knome will set some mouse-bombs for scott in Q
<knome> ;)
<scott-work> lols
<ailo> scott-work: I would need to think about that. About the audio plumbing, I think it's better to talk to people in this order: coders, Debian packagers, Ubuntu packagers, and lastly, make Ubuntustudio specific changes if nothing else works
<knome> ailo, i'd say that's the right order in anything
<knome> as long as you remember to offer contributing to upstream on every step
<knome> then it makes the most sense for everybody
<ailo> Until now, there hasn't really been any activity on the audio plumbing side, apart from adding -lowlatency and discussing new default jack settings. There's the seeds of course.
<ailo> Each release, there are usually some sort of problems, so it would probably be good if someone on this team would become more active in this area
<ailo> I wouldn't mind being that person
<ailo> Ok, time to test the iso finally. bbl
<ailo-live> One thing that we really need in my opinion is a pulseaudio volumecontrol
<knome> ailo, xubuntu is switching to pavucontrol this release
<ailo-live> knome, Too late to add it to Ubuntustudio_
<knome> ailo-live, it's 1,5h until the beta2 freeze
<ailo-live> bah, English keyboard layout
<knome> ailo-live, our change isn't uploaded either
 * knome hides
<ailo-live> knome, I mean to add a question mark after ubuntustudio, but I cant find the key >P
<knome> right
<ailo-live> Thats one thing that live iso should have during boot. First, choose keyboard layout
<knome> well, it's quite late
<knome> but, you could do that
<knome> i'm too busy to file the Fe though
<ailo-live> scott-work, What do you think (questionmark)
<len_> ailo-live, there should be a PA volume control both in multimedia and (if the new menu stuff is there) in the mixer section.
<len_> If not it was taken out since yesterday.
<ailo-live> len_, At the volume control, opening "Sound Settings" opens up alsa mixer
<len_> there is a second one below that
<len_> In mutlimedia there were two volume controls apps trhe bottom one is PA
<ailo-live> Yes, but the actual volume control that you see in the indicator part
<ailo-live> Also, I'm yet to figure out how I can change PA output
<len_> I was able to yesterday. Are the new menus in today?
<ailo-live> len_, How do you change pulseaudio output (questionmark)
<len_> ailo-live pavucontrol should still be there... run it from an xterm if the menu item is gone. The last tab should have i/o card choice
<ailo-live> len_, I'm using it currently. But there's nothing I can see that let's me change audio device
<len_> I found with jack bridging I just had to turn off the sound card and what would be left was jack sink.
<len_> look at the output devices tab, if jack is running there should be a jack part there
<ailo-live> len_, I'm only concerned with how I can change audio device for pulseaudio at the moment
<len_> I'm going to have to DL todays ISO so I can see what is there, Yesterday I couldn't even start jackd with qjackctl.
<ailo-live> It's working, but there's nothing that let's you see that you've changed the device
<len_> It should be on the last tab configuration... but I am noticing mine (in 11.04) is showing "No cards available" even though I have two. The output Devices shows my default card.
<len_> I think I had to manually configure things to get PA to work back then.
<len_> I'm DL the ISO to take a look.
<ailo-live> I see. Its the control named "Set as fallback"
<ailo-live> len_, PA has been poor at supporting multichannel cards, like m-audio in the past. Don't know when it changed, Perhaps this release
<len_> It was much better even 11.10
<ailo-live> Had to do with PA expecting a certain interface from alsa. Don't know if they fixed it at the alsa end, or the PA end
<len_> ailo-live at the PA end.
<ailo-live> len_, How do you know
<len_> I was talking with the right person...
<len_> Can't remember who.. 
<len_> It has to do with channel mapping.
<ailo-live> Yeah
<len_> alsa still says tracks 1-10.
<ailo-live> And that has to do with the chip being the way it is
<ailo-live> The delta series all had the same chip
<ailo-live> Other cards too. Like a Terratec 8ch card
<ailo-live> ice1712
<len_> I am pretty sure, I used to have to change the alsa config to get it to load in the right order and the PA config to get a right and a left.
<len_> Mine is a D66
<ailo-live> I have a D66 as well as a LT1010
<ailo-live> At one point you were able to fix it by adding a couple of lines to the ice1712 file
<ailo-live> I never bothered with this, cause I've always been running two devices paralell. 
<ailo-live> One for jack, one for PA
<ailo-live> Using a hardware mixer to route the channels to my monitors
<ailo-live> Anyway, the volume control should be pulseaudio only
<ailo-live> That's a major confusion right now
<len_> ailo-live, not so sure about that. there are some things that need the alsa based mixer.
<len_> Like my laptop internal mic.
<ailo-live> len_, Are you saying we should have an alsa mixer by default
<len_> PA controls it by using both channels, but for some reason mine needs the right side to be mute.
<len_> the two sides are inverted from each other.
<len_> The PA mixer works for most people most of the time.
<len_> It is much easier to use. 
<len_> The alsa mix needs to be there for the odd (bad) hardware 
<ailo-live> I really don't understand your argument. Because you need alsa mixer to get your mic working, it should be the default mixer
<scott-work> this is a good example of why we probably need to more clearly define who we are supporting and what we expect their hardware to be
<ailo-live> If the default sound server is pulseaudio, isn't it logical to have the pulseaudio mixer as default as well
<len_> yes PA should be default.
<ailo-live> If PA is not able to control your audio device, then its a bug
<len_> Some of the RME cards require the alsa mixer to configure them (I'm told)
<len_> PA controls everything but the internal mic correctly.
<len_>  There has been a bug report in before I found the problem.
<scott-work> and we can keep putting pressure on people to fix these bugs
<len_> The internal mic also has a fixed bitrate of 48k...
<ailo-live> alsamixer can be used to control the audio card directly, like the delta-66, The volumes are at 0 by default, so they need to be raised. This can either be done using the envy24 control, or using alsamixer.
<ailo-live> Having the alsa mixer available is probably a good idea, but the volume contron in the top bar should be pulseaudio only
<ailo-live> That's all I'm saying
<micahg> scott-work: it's not clear about the new wallpaper which license it's under
<len_> mudita24 works for me. but when using gstreamer to PA, the PA controls are helpful.
<scott-work> micahg: i have an email from dick that it is the same creative commons license as the others
<scott-work> going into a meeting, be back in thirty to an hour
<ailo-live> len_, They control different things. mudita24 (envy24) controls the card, while pulsaudio just controls the volume that is sent to it
<scott-work> oh, and thank you micahg for working on these to get them into :)
<len_> Yup, both are useful for some things. I wouldn't think that mudit24 should be in the panel or the multimedia menu though.
<ailo-live> Interesting to see tomorrows image, when it should contain the new -lowlatency
<ailo-live> bb
<micahg> scott-work: maybe that should be included like the other e-mail in the file?  not exactly sure on this point of order
<micahg> scott-work: checking on that copyright file, also I'll need to bump the dependent version of ubuntustudio-look for -default-settings since you're using the new wallpaper
<scott-work> micahg: would be satisfactory to add a task to my list to add the email at a later date?  i absolutely promise i will do this
<micahg> scott-work: I'm finding out if it's necessary at all
<scott-work> micahg: ack
<micahg> scott-work: otherwise, I'll back out the wallpaper change for -default-settings and upload
<scott-work> micahg: can i send you the email to include?
<micahg> scott-work: sure
<scott-work> micahg: sent to your canonical address
<micahg> thanks
<scott-work> thank you :)
<micahg> astraljava: I'm thinking to just drop that section of the preinst that has no useful info
<micahg> astraljava: I'll leave your name in the changelog for it :0
<micahg> :)
<scott-work> LOL
<micahg> scott-work: not needed, uploading
<astraljava> micahg: Yeah, I was on the verge of ridding it too, but then decided to leave it for debugging, after all, not many actually look into the outputs. :)
<micahg> yeah, but it'll always show that :)
<ttoine> len_, rme sound cards need the hdspmixer apps. other wise you get no sound
<astraljava> micahg: Show what? Are you not talking about the "preinst called with unknown argument $arg"?
<micahg> yes
<astraljava> micahg: So, if there's no printing of that in the default case, what will it show, then?
<micahg> astraljava: are you against removing it?
<astraljava> micahg: No, but am puzzled with the comment "..but it'll always show that".
<micahg> there's nothing useful being done there
<micahg> oh, it should show that on any configure/abort-upgrade
<micahg> does it not?
<astraljava> micahg: There's no functionality, but it would have been there just for informational purposes, ie. finding out if it was called with some other arg. But I agree it's not really important, and probably not very likely anyway.
<micahg> ok, removed, uploading meta
<astraljava> Thanks!
<micahg> astraljava: you want credit in the changelog or no?
<scott-work> astraljava: say yes, you'll be famous
<len-live> Wow! that was about the most seamless use of PA-jack bridging I have ever done.
<scott-work> len-live: did you have to do something special?  anything at all?
 * scott-work is presuming len wasn't including sarcasm tags
<len-live> Once jack was running I had to tell PA to use jacksink as the "fallback" default.
<len-live> I'll have to try it on the netbook as I had problems there last night.
<len-live> I am not sure I want to try it with my ensoniq... 
<len-live> I think if I stop jack that will go away, so if I restart jack I would have to set PA again.
<scott-work> len-live: do you have any music on the interwebs for people to listen to?
<TheMuso> So... Can someone plesae check that the lowlatency kernel configs are as they should be? I am pretty sure I fixed it up, but need someone to confirm.
<ailo> TheMuso: i386 is as it should be
<astraljava> micahg: Let's go by the book, you made the last change, you should be credited.
<TheMuso> ailo: Which one? -pae, or non-pae?
<ailo> TheMuso: non-pae
<ailo> Forgot about pae
<TheMuso> Ok.
<len-live> I am not sure I understand... There is not recording I have done... The one page I had up where I did something for a friend got lost in an upgrade...
<len-live> The ensoniq worked fine too. Last time I got tones of xruns when I tried it with PA-jack bridge.
<len-live> Gotta get kids bye for now.
<ailo> I'm going to test the bridge for a while. Seems to work well using -p 64
<len-live> Tried to install todays ISO... no go. Mar 22 21:49:34 ubuntu-studio ubiquity[3299]: GError: Failed to execute child process "/bin/busybox" (No such file or directory)
<len-live> Did we forget to put that in? or is that a basepackage problem?
<len-live> I know lots of people are trying to shrink the ISO size, I noticed there are still some CD ISOs that are over size when I DL the ubuntudesktop version yesterday.
<len-live> For completeness I will try on the netbook as well (which did work yesterday)
 * knome is slightly burnt out :)
 * knome will recover by tomorrow, though
<len-live> Oh yes and firefox just crashed... I was going to paste the bug number in...
 * knome is off, laters
<ailo> knome: Have some ice tea too cool down
<ailo> Lemon ice tea, :P
<len-live> The bug report is Bug #962585 
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 962585 could not be found
<len-live> Launch pad is having timeout errors right now too.
<len-live> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/962585
<ubottu> Error: launchpad bug 962585 not found
<len-live> for more info.
<len-live> Anyway, no installs today.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-23
<micahg> ScottL: astraljava: I hope I got everything in for you
<ScottL> micahg, i hope you did too :)
<ScottL> astraljava, micahg:  thank you two for getting the ubuntustudio-audio bugs cleaned up, that is awesome :)
<len-nb> Did anyone else try an install today?
<len-nb> (on todays ISO)
<ScottL> len-nb, i did not, i'm waiting for tomorrow's image since micahg uploaded a bunch this afternoon
<len-nb> I hope the base stuff is fixed by then.
<len-nb> did we do anything that may have removed busybox?
<ScottL> len-nb, the problem with busybox might have several causes
<ScottL> someone might have uploaded a "fix" to it which caused it to be borked
<ScottL> or there could have been a component mismatch which caused it to fail to build
<ScottL> or a timing issue where it "couldn't" be installed per a mismatch
<ScottL> all kinds of stuff
<ScottL> if we see a problem tomorrow with it then we probably need to start looking at it
<len-nb> ok g'night
<astraljava> micahg: I'll have a look later tonight, I'm going to have a job interview soon so I needed to actually *gasp* sleep a little and now getting ready. :)
 * micahg wonders what this sleep is you speak of
<astraljava> micahg: It's a one-time-thing-every-three-months sort of reoccuring maintenance-like action some people pay more attention, I dunno.
<astraljava> I never really got a hang of it. :9
<scott-work> #925257
<scott-work> bug #925257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925257 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "pulse jack bridging no sound from pulse clients" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925257
<ailo> scott-work: I added a comment
<scott-work> ailo: to 925257?
<scott-work> i was using the bot to help me fill out the weekly release-team email i send :P
<ailo> scott-work: Yes
<ailo> len should take a look at that. Don't think there's a bug
<scott-work> i was worried about that
<scott-work> i was feeling that it didn't work as some expected rather than fully understanding what was happening
<scott-work> of course, i still dont' fully understand what is happening, at this point :P
<scott-work> but now that many things are done (or wrapping up) i do hope to explore this more unless someone else dives in and susses it out and tells us
<ailo> Not easy to figure that one out, I think. The bridge works really well. I've had 7 xruns in more than 12h with a low latency setting, but to set it up is a little too manual still for someone who is new to it. Needs documentation
<ailo> scott-work: It's not that complicated really. Think of every sound device as a module.
<scott-work> david h. (who is employed by canonical to work on sound and drivers, methinks) seemed verify confident that it should work, seemed to have tested it quite a bit, also seemed very knowledgeable about jack and pulse, and practically seemed shocked that we weren't using the pulseaudio-module-jack (or pulseaduio-jack-module)
<ailo> Well, I shouldn't explain it like that..
<ailo> scott-work: It does seem to work really well. But, shutting down jack is still the achilles heel in the whole setup
<ailo> scott-work: The word pulseaudio/jack-bridge may be a little confusing, cause the way PA interfaces with jack is more or less the same way all apps and sound devices interface with jack
<ailo> scott-work: pulseaudio-module-jack makes PA show in jack, and jack show in PA. So, how do you make a program use jack?
<ailo> You choose jack in the programs audio settings
<ailo> That's what you do with PA as well
<ailo> It might be nice to have a toggle in PA settings that says something like "auto-connect to jack"
<ailo> Cause it doesn't autoconnect. You need to do that manually
<ailo> That might be the only thing missing actually
<ailo> btw, all the xruns were cause by opening and closing an app, so they don't count. I've had 0 xruns for more than 12h
<scott-work> ailo: that's pretty amazing (0 xruns for 12 hours +)
<scott-work> i think we really have something to be proud about in this release
<scott-work> now i need to switch directions and start doing some PR where ever i can think to promote it :)
<scott-work> (after a few more tests)
<scott-work> also, we did really good this cycle in terms of coordinated development in contrast with other teams: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/#Flavor
<scott-work> xubuntu beat us (go knome!)
<scott-work> but i think kubuntu has some leadership (or possible development) issues with scottk doing more canonical/ubuntu type work this cycle
<scott-work> and lubuntu is probably a very, very small team (is my guess)
<knome> scott-work, to make it look even a bit better for us, 8 of those not finished issues are charlie's items (he hasn't tracked these at all afaik) and three items are mine, which are related to website and will be executed before release. so without charlie, we'd hit 100% ;)
<scott-work> wow
<scott-work> so is charlie not doing the items or just choosing not to update the status?
<knome> i think he is not updating the status
<knome> all his items are non-xubuntu anyway
<knome> so we will hit 100% on the xubuntu blueprints anyway
<knome> though, that includes about 15 postponed items
<knome> (those count towards the max)
<scott-work> we had a few postponed too, i don't remember the exact number, but i'm sure it is around 15 as well
<knome> yup
<knome> anyway, if everything is DONE or POSTPONED, it's 100% :)
<scott-work> ailo: did you think mor about what we should be doing during next cycle?  any suggestions would be welcomed
<scott-work> knome: i will be wrapping up one or two very trivial items and then giving the website my main focus, i hope to knock it out in a week then
<scott-work> knome: we (the studio team) need to have a discussion about where user help (or tutorial) documentation will be located
<scott-work> but that isn't important right now i believe, should we be, knome?
<scott-work> i.e. if we are using the website for all user documentation (vs. help.ubuntu.com), do we need to have it started or a "hook" or "stub" page in the website before going live?
<scott-work>   
<scott-work> and knome, any suggestions you or anyone from the xubuntu-dev team would be welcome in terms of where ubuntu studio should focus in q-cycle
<knome> scott-work, it's easy adding content to the website
<knome> scott-work, even if the Q cycle is non-LTS, i think you should take some time to focus on polishing and finalizing the xfce migration
<knome> scott-work, and not try to do anything spectacular, unless it just drops in place or is really important
<knome> scott-work, you've probably noticed how much the xubuntu team puts work in to artwork and really little things, and i think that is something that really pays off in the long run
<knome> scott-work, but i'm not saying it is just artwork that can do with the polishing... :)
<scott-work> knome: i agree with those statements
<knome> scott-work, for us, it's the time to see how the community works, and how it could work better, and hopefully, how it can grow
<knome> scott-work, for one, i'm going to make a changes in the strategy document, including a review to our goal
<scott-work> knome: i am very interested in evaluating the user experience from finding the ISO through using the applications to see where we can provide better supports and improvements
<knome> scott-work, an important thing that i'm pushing is to change for what time the project lead is elected.
<knome> scott-work, i think it makes most sense that a new project lead (or the new season) starts with the release just after LTS, and ends with an LTS
<knome> scott-work, that allows long-time planning
<knome> scott-work, now my term *started* with an LTS, which meant i needed to be careful with things
<knome> scott-work, and it's ending with just a normal release too, so kind of no magic can be done, until the future PL completely agrees with me on important decisions, or it is me again.
<knome> scott-work, that is why charlie probably should have continued for the LTS as the project lead
<scott-work> hehe, i'll be honest, i'm not sure how i feel about the possibility of another lead for ubuntu studio currently :P
<scott-work> i have a pretty strong vision and i would like to see it completed (or mostly completed)
<knome> i understand. i totally hope that i can work as the PL until the next LTS
<scott-work> but i certainly wouldn't mind (perhaps enjoy) stepping down after that though
<scott-work> knome: i think there are very good arguments for that model
<knome> after the next LTS, i think it *is* time for me to step down, and let somebody else work on their vision
<knome> all that comes with the PL chair isn't easy, or relaxed
<knome> most of it is actually a bit stressful
<scott-work> i don't know if we will get a strategy document in the sense that you (xubuntu) have it, but i believe we need to develop a proper mission statement
<scott-work> knome: aye, it is :/
<scott-work> but i like the organizational aspect of it
<knome> well, i hope to make our strategy document WAY shorter
<scott-work> i find myself drawn more to getting the system setup properly rather than actually using it to create :P
<knome> it is too superfluous, just explaining all the bureaucracy, but not giving much "tools" for the community
<scott-work> mmmmm
<ailo> scott-work: I don't have a clear list of things. I'm in the process of putting up a strategy for myself right now. I need to do quite a bit of studying for the next couple of months, but I will have some time over to do this and that, like study kernel maintenance. 
<ailo> scott-work: My personal goal with involvment has always been to help assure that audio operation is easy and qualitative
<ailo> I have ideas outside of that too, of course, but I usually get involved in everything I touch, and that's not good for me
<ailo> scott-work: One big issue for next release could be to assure that jack + PA is stable and automatic. To achieve that, we need to work together with the coders of each app
<len_> ailo, a bit off topic, but the PA-jackd stuff is better than it has been. It is much more solid and some of the problems may not have been the bridging, but other things.
<ailo> If we are able to get changes into all related software within a couple of months, those should be ready for testing in good time before next beta
<ailo> len_: Current problems are: 1. qjackctl is not able to shut down jackdmp properly 2. PA does not have a "autoconnect to jack" option/function
<ailo> The first item is very bad
<len_> It would be nice in PA to be able to set jackd as default even when jackd is not running. And have a backup default for when it is not there.
<len_> I agree.
<len_> I have seen qjackctl say I can't shut it down when the logs say it is shut down.
<holstein> does it help at all to be alsa only?
<len_> if I restart qjackctl it then works
<holstein> are these options more easily "fixable" that way?
<ailo> holstein: jack + PA is close to perfect right now. I don't think going back to alsa only is a good step anymore. It might have been two years ago, when PA was still unstable
<holstein> i feel like its a step back, and its a step away from the usual or whatever
<ailo> PA + jack works perfectly. The only real problem right now is with jackdmp
<holstein> but, we had talked about alsa only, and i believe that was just a few months ago
<holstein> i was just spitballing
<len_> PA is used by too many things... but for the most part when you are using those things you don't need jack either.
<len_> If someone wants to record a phonecall (skype or whatever, then PA-jack makes sense.
<holstein> well, i feel JACK is overkill for most folks
<ailo> holstein: PA + jack is pretty awesome right now. I've been running it without xruns for more than 12h now, with -p 64
<holstein> ailo: sweet!
<ailo> The only problem is with jack, not PA
<ailo> qjackctl is not able to shut down jackdmp properly
<holstein> that might be better
<holstein> easier to get some co-operation on i mean
<ailo> All though, it would be nice if PA had a autoconnect option, so one didn't need to connect it manually to jack each time
<ailo> Since Ubuntustudio is a multimedia distro, and not only an audio distro, I guess there's little point in making jack the default sound server, even if it would be cool to be able to have that as an option
<ailo> But, then we need a -controls application, like the on falktx was making
<holstein> yeah, i agree
<holstein> even some audio folk dont need JACK
<holstein> the casual podcaster or whatever
<holstein> i see that in the support channel a lot
<holstein> folks struggling with JACK to do something that JACK is not really meant for
<ailo> holstein: What I mean with the "autoconnect" option was that you would be able to set a toggle in PA settings to let PA autoconnect to jack each time you start jack.
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> ailo: and i dont see any harm as long as its not breaking something else
<holstein> its a matter of implementaion though
<holstein> upstream would be ideal
<ailo> Yeah, it neads to be done upstream
<ailo> We should do that more. Think about what's wrong, and talk to the coders directly. Supply bug reports, and discuss what we would like their software to have
<holstein> yup
<holstein> especially little things like this that might be easy, and could really slick things up for everyone downstream
<ailo> Absolutely
<ailo> jack is going through some changes right now. Not sure exactly what the plan is. I guess they're going to write a jack3 type of app, to combine jack1 and jack2, but also start from scratch
<ailo> If I've understood correctly
<ailo> Might be good to be in touch with what's going on there
<holstein> that could be nice
<holstein> could be terrifying ;)
<ailo> But, I don't think things will change by next release
<scott-work> ailo, holstein: the process you are describing "think about what is wrong, talk to the coders, file bug reports" - this is what have been thinking about for the upcoming cycles
<scott-work> i'd like to take a step back and think solely from the user's perspective and abstractly think about what would make it easier for the user
<scott-work> the "autoconnect to jack" toggle in pulse audio is a good example
<scott-work> and then push these "wish list" items upstream
<scott-work> this will probably be a two cycle process though
<scott-work> but that is okay, it will probably mean great improvements for ubuntu studio and the users
<holstein> well, ideally, for debian and all downstream projects
<ailo> scott-work: Not sure if it really requires two cycles. If we begin now, changes should be able to reach Debian testing shortly
<scott-work> another example, i've thought about a "record audio" button that maybe start jack (if not already started), shuts off network manager, and some other things
<scott-work> this may not be an upstream thing, but we could perhaps start it
<scott-work> oh, i explained that poorly
<ailo> scott-work: Are there any problems with that anymore? I don't think so..
<holstein> yeah, but im not sure thats needed
<holstein> i mean, if you think about how many different ways folks use this stuff
<holstein> and how many would acutally need/want that button
<holstein> could be handy for the new user for sure though
<scott-work> think less about the specifics and more about the idea
<scott-work> a toggle in the top panel that starts "record audio mode"
<scott-work> maybe it shuts off unwanted process
<scott-work> maybe it changes the menu
<ailo> Only thing that comes to mind is the cpu governor mode. But I have yet to test if that really makes any difference at all
<scott-work> maybe it starts a side panel or replaces an existing panel with new icons
<scott-work> it's just an idea, i'm not sure we need it
<scott-work> but it might be a good idea or it might even spark someone else to think of something that will be an improvement
<ailo> scott-work: Sounds like something for a -controls application
<scott-work> ailo: could be, could be :)
<holstein> could be the thing we contribute upstream too
<scott-work> what are the different screens called, desktops or whatever?
<ailo> I'm thinking about starting to code one this summer, but it will likely not be finished in time for next release. Also, I would push it to Debian
<ailo> I have some new ideas for it too
<scott-work> we have an applet in our top panel for switching between....?
<holstein> i think im going to have to give up on coding
<holstein> i got busy playing again, and i would really need to take a class i think
<ailo> scott-work: It would be good to have an indicator applet, just like the volume control, but an extended one.
<ailo> Simple exterior, with many sublevels. Simple level -> medium -> advanced
<ailo> All in one, sort of app. Plugins to control different sound servers and even applications.
<ailo> One thing that users need is information. Information about their hardware
<ailo> What their sound device is capable of, for example
<ailo> It's a big project. I need to think about it. Perhaps ask others if they would be interested in doing that too
<ailo> Then there's the panel
<holstein> might not be possible
<ailo> not possible?
<holstein> since the vendors are somewhat responsible for that
<holstein> for allowing that information to be accessed or whatever
<holstein> or known
<ailo> It's just about gathering a database of info for every known device
<ailo> Have a function that reads what device you have plugged in, and output info about it
<holstein> sure... if thats possible
<scott-work> ailo: good ideas
<ailo> It's not hard to do. It's just a bit of work gathering info on a big list of devices
<scott-work> to help that out we might even be able to push an API to other projects what would help this
<holstein> well, theres the alsa site, and the ffado pages
<holstein> might be nice to pick a place like that and just help maintain
<holstein> so we arent duplicating efforts, and we are again helping upstream
<holstein> what i dont want is another giant wiki page or 7 that are just a drag to keep up with
<ailo> This app would be in Debian. Not meant to be Ubuntustudio specific. Just a sort of all-in-one app.
<holstein> i like it
<scott-work> astraljava: you are representing xubuntu in the release meeting?  super cool :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Yep. :) I'm glad, too.
<scott-work> astraljava: have you particapated or lurked before?
<scott-work> sadly, the studio stuff isn't discussed for almost an hour
<scott-work> today might even be longer
<astraljava> scott-work: I've lurked before. This is just tricky now, my laptop's battery is about to go out, and I'm on a bus without a possibity to charge it. :-/
<scott-work> oooh, that will be interesting, you might want to shut off for thirty or forty-five minutes then
<scott-work> or ask to go early?
<astraljava> Yeah, can you back me up if I won't respond in time? I asked on #xubuntu-devel, but the guys aren't responding.
<astraljava> scott-work: Just tell skaet about the laptop problem. I'll check back in about 25 minutes or so.
<scott-work> sure :)
<astraljava> Thanks!
<astraljava> See ya soon.
<scott-work> astraljava: are you back?
<astraljava> I am now, and saw the question re: FFes. Thanks for covering!
<scott-work> i didn't really cover very well to be honest :P
<scott-work> very irregular meeting
<scott-work> we didn't go team-by-team reports, but that is okay with me
<astraljava> Yeah, Kate said they've changed the format of the meeting, so no regular going-through of the teams/flavors.
<astraljava> But anyway, thanks a lot for informing the #xubuntu-devel channel!
<scott-work> i hope this makes the usual meeting much shorter
<astraljava> It seems to, considerably. It ran well over an hour previously, didn't it?
<scott-work> at the beginning of the cycle they discussed changing format of the meeting in an attempt to reduce the duration from the usual 1 hour
<astraljava> Right.
<scott-work> but i think the usual meeting duration this cycle has been still been at 1 hour (or more)
<scott-work> so i'm definitely okay with a change of format :-D
<astraljava> +1 :)
<astraljava> Ok, I'm getting off the bus soon. Back in about half an hour.
<astraljava> scott-work: Now, how about them meetings? Our latest decision didn't last very long. Was it too ambitious? Should we relax it a bit?
<astraljava> Or is there any real need for strict scheduled meetings at all?
<scott-work> astraljava: i think we should start meetings again
<astraljava> Ok. I agree. With what sort of schedule?
<knome> this is just a brainfart, but i was wondering how much sense shared meetings would make
<knome> the developer teams are overlapping quite a bit currently...
<scott-work> knome: that's not a bad idea 
<knome> and, we would have more people to chair the meeting, if needed
<scott-work> knome: how often do you have meetings?  weekly, every other week?
<scott-work> i'm thinking that maybe we have "studio" specific meetings as needed between the combined meeting
<scott-work> perhaps
<knome> scott-work, just "sometimes"
<astraljava> Joined meetings at least semi-regularly might be a good idea.
<astraljava> Don't know what a few Xubuntu devs think about it, though. mr_pouit and madnick come to mind immediately, they don't participate in Studio dev at all.
<astraljava> Perhaps it could be discussed in the next one?
<astraljava> Alright, testers! We have new Beta-2 image candidates!
<astraljava> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/210/builds/14055/testcases and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/210/builds/14056/testcases
* astraljava changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel  â scott-work
<astraljava> damn
<scott-work> lol!
<scott-work> i'll fix the topic this afternoon, i need to get something done at work first, probably take 1.5 hours
* astraljava changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel â https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Beta-2 images require testing, please help if you can! http://bit.ly/GJNjkm and http://bit.ly/GTD9vT
<astraljava> scott-work: I think that works for now, don't you think?
<scott-work> astraljava: weee!  i like it
<scott-work> especially the tiny.url 's  :)
<scott-work> that makes it so much leaner
<astraljava> Yeah, it gets long enough already.
<scott-work> astraljava: do you remember the channel for the irc council thingie that jussi mentioned?
<astraljava> scott-work: No, but I can find out, hold on.
<scott-work> knome: did anyone notice scrollbars on the xubuntu ubiquity slideshow?
<astraljava> scott-work: #ubuntu-irc-council
<scott-work> astraljava: thanks
<astraljava> scott-work: Yes, we did. It's a weird thingie, for me, qemu-kvm showed them, vbox didn't.
<len_> scott-work, The scroll bars seem to come and go, I tried to take a screen shot of them, but by the time I had the screen shot app open they had gone.
<astraljava> len_: Oh yeah, but that was on real hw, right?
<len_> On hardware yes
<len_> I did post screen shots a day or two ago. I installed three times looking for them.
<len_> Two out of three I didn't seem to get any
<astraljava> I don't have access to real hw for testing for several days now, so can't help with that currently.
<len_> I use a USB drive for my testing... saves mucking up things.
<astraljava> Yeah, I lost mine a couple months back.
<len_> The ISO in daily is that beta two?
<astraljava> Candidate, yes.
<len_> DL now...
<astraljava> Schweet!
<len_> Is there a place to put test reports? or just use bug reports?
<astraljava> len_: Check the links at the /topic.
<len_> OK, I can do the second one...
<astraljava> Nice, thanks! I'll rotate the other one in kvm.
<scott-work> astraljava: if you want irc privs please apply:  https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntustudio-ops/+members
<scott-work> and join us in #ubuntu-irc
<astraljava> scott-work: I don't see where to apply on that page.
<scott-work> i clicked on the small breadcrumb trail
<scott-work> astraljava: here it is:  https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntustudio-ops
<len_> scott-work, re bug 962585, Colin Watson writes "Secondly, I think it's an oversight that the standard
<len_> task (which contains busybox) isn't present on Ubuntu Studio images.Secondly, I think it's an oversight that the standard
<len_> task (which contains busybox) isn't present on Ubuntu Studio images."
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 962585 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with GError in function(): Failed to execute child process "/bin/busybox" (No such file or directory)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/962585
<len_> Opps sorry for the repeat...
<scott-work> huh, that's weird, i wouldn't think we need to specify busybox explicitly (if that is what is being said)
<scott-work> but i'm glad it's fixed
<astraljava> Ahh... yes, sorry I didn't look closely enough.
<len_> I think that is the same package that should have things like nano in it.
<len_> I think we put it on the missing packages wiki page.
<micahg> it's in the standard task which I think cjwatson added to the US images this morning
<micahg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/livecd-rootfs/2.64
<len_> Good.
<astraljava> Soo... if it was missing, then why didn't it prevent the installation before?
<len_> Could be a real version of tail existed before.
<astraljava> len_: tail? What were you actually doing when it occurred?
<len_> ubbiquity uses tail for loggin.
<len_> s/loggin/logging/
<kubotu> len_ meant: "ubbiquity uses tail for logging."
<len_> I tried three times... two of them with nothing else running on two different machines
<astraljava> len_: But did you click on install in a live session, or what?
<len_> Yup.
<astraljava> I wonder why installing straight from the menu worked without the standard task, then.
<astraljava> But oh well, it's fixed now, and that's what matters.
<len_> We'll see, printing ISO to USB stick now...
<scott-work> thinking about it, i'm guessing busybox is necessary for the liveFS?
<scott-work> astraljava: i thought i had installed both methods before
<scott-work> i will certainly do both methods this tonight/tomorrow to make sure it works on all cases
<astraljava> Yeah I dunno. It's strange, but who am I to argue. :)
<len-live> What happened? The graphic before the session that used to have the spinning studio thing is replaced by the purple stock ubuntu one...
<astraljava> Hmm... that's not good.
<astraljava> Does that have to do with plymouth? I'll have to investigate.
<len-live> I think the menu file in /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus actually has to be called applications.menu at least it is not being used.
<len-live> We have a stock menu.
<len-live> scott-work, either the menu file has to be call xfce-applications.menu or that name needs to be a link to whatever you do use.
<len-live> I just put a link in and it works.
<len-live> scott-work, menu looks good, panel looks good, back drop looks good. We have RT priv.
<len-live> Ran into the qjackctl can't stop jackdbus.  It is confusing to the user because it looked like it had stopped. When I tried to restart, that failed "Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
<len-live> Cannot connect to server socket
<len-live> jack server is not running or cannot be started
<len-live> Fri Mar 23 21:10:21 2012: Saving settings to "/home/ubuntu-studio/.config/jack/conf.xml" ...
<len-live> 21:10:27.049 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the messages window for more info.
<len-live> Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
<len-live> Cannot connect to server socket
<len-live> jack server is not running or cannot be started"
<scott-work> len-live: okay, i wondered about that part (re: applications.menu)
<len-live> PA-jack works.
<len-live> actually it has to have the xfce in front.
<scott-work> len-live: can you file a bug for it please?  that way we can add it to the qa test plus give us something to ask for the FFe or whatever will be required to fix it
<scott-work> len-live: oh, so i can call it 'xfce-ubuntustudio.menu' ?
<len-live> I'm just figuring that out.
<len-live> I haven't tried that
<len-live> ls
<scott-work> i don't mind going back to 'xfce-applications', especially since this is in our own 'xdg-ubuntustudio' direcotyr and shouldn't confuse anyone
<scott-work> len-live: are you testing 32bit by isntalling it both through the first menu (i.e. not the liveFS) and also from the liveFS?
<scott-work> if so, that will reduce 1/2 of my testing tonight and tomorrow :P
<len-live> It has to be xfce-applications.menu.
<scott-work> len-live: ack'd
<len-live> I haven't done any install... I was going to do an install on two machines so I will do one each way
<scott-work> len-live: for 32bit, correct?
<len-live> The menu bug can go on either the live or install or both...
<len-live> All my machines are cheap... 32bit
<len-live> I have to run  and get kids.
<len-live>  C u in a bit.
<scott-work> menu bug should be against ubuntustudio-default-settings
<scott-work> thanks :)
<astraljava> I'm stumped on the plymouth issue. I'll have to sync the images, which takes like forever over this mobile data link. I'll get back to it a little later once the .iso is up-to-date.
<scott-work> astraljava: what plymouth issue?
 * scott-work is now starting to get nervous
<astraljava> scott-work: Len said there's now the vanilla logo before the session is loaded, which I understand to mean the plymouth theme thingie.
<scott-work> astraljava: hmmmm, that is surprising
<astraljava> But I didn't find any changes from the sources that could explain it.
<scott-work> i am leaving work soon and i will start syncing the image as soon as i am home
<len-live> I wonder if it is part of what C Watson added.
<astraljava> Ok.
<scott-work> len-live: did you see that i said the bug for the menu should be filed against ubuntustudio-default-settings?  that is the package in which the change is needed
<len-live> Yup. Just working on that now.
<len-live> Bug #963498 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963498 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "menu is not ubuntu studio version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963498
<scott-work> len-live: i'll make that change tonight and push it back tonight
<scott-work> my tests previously were to install an updated -settings-package onto an existing install, which already had the xfce-*.menu on it
<len-live> Happens...
<scott-work> okay, i'm leaving for home, see you in a bit, but not for long, ten year old daughter is doing a dance at the school tonight, wife and i are going to see it and then probably go out to eat
<len-live> OK, now to install...
<len-live> scrollbars for about 5 seconds... then vanished (in the slideshow.
<len-live> yes this means the bug from yesterday is gone.
<len-live> install successful... it says. reboot time.
<len-1204> Install is faithful to the live DVD session.
<ailo> nice
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-24
<len_> ScottL, the startup screen thing... with the ubuntu screen instead of the syudio screen. seems to be affected by which machine I am on.
<len_> I am thinking it has something to do with the nvidia chipset on this machine. Once installed it goes back to normal behaviour... no video during startup.
<len_> This is using the free driver.
<len_> On my netbook I get the US logo with spinner around it as always.
<len_> On the netbook I am doing a install from bootmenu install. I can see the text just fine.
<knome> len_, ScottL: re: startup: plymouth vs. debian-cd, or sth?
<knome> anyway, be back tomorrow ->
<len-1204> ScottL, install from boot menu is ok... I did it twice, on the same machine. I thought it had failed the first time.
<len-1204> But it had just written grub to the wrong disk.
<len-1204> The second install from boot menu I had scroll bars the whole way... No amount of playing with it got rid of them.
<len-1204> nano is now included.
<len-1204> astraljava, the problem with plymouth theme seems to be my video card ... it is not there on my netbook.
<len-1204> two different experiences.
<len-1204> ailo, PA controls work different if it is connected to jack or to alsa.
<len-1204> With jacksink PA level controls just control the level of the audio going into jack.
<len-1204> It does not control the interface level. That is if I open alsamixer (or click on the speaker icon in the top panel) PA does not control those levels.
<len-1204> I can set them with alsa and PA doesn't move them.
<len-1204> but if PA has it's output set to the hardware (ie alsa) then if I move the PA level the alsa level moves too.
<len-1204> PA will still amplify the audio inside PA if more than 0db is asked for.
<len-1204> It does make sense as once jack has control of a device, the only way PA can have  controls is by software.
<Laney> Greetings!
<Laney> Could one of you fine fellows comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/musescore/+bug/962606 ? :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 962606 in musescore (Ubuntu) "Please sync musescore=1.2+dfsg-1 from Debian/sid (main)" [Undecided,New]
<astraljava> len_: That's even more confusing.
<astraljava> Laney: I can give it a run in qemu-kvm within the next few hours. Thanks for the heads-up!
<Laney> no problemo
<ailo> len_: The reason why PA doesn't control your sound device when it's connected to jack is because it's not at all connected to your sound device when that happens
<astraljava> ...except that I can't test it. My images fail on the busybox issue.
<len_> ailo Yes I figured that out... I was just commenting on it as something that should maybe mentioned in docs to avoid confusion in the newby.
<len_> astraljava, sync your ISO busybox is there now.
<len_> ailo, someone (don't remember who) was suggesting the panel icon for mixer should be PA and not ALSA as it is now. I was pointing out one of the reasons we need both.
<len_> And perhaps a reason the PA control and the ALSA control should NOT have the same icon.
<astraljava> len_: So where was it yesterday, and why did it work for you, then?
<astraljava> len_: The images haven't been updated on the server today, yet.
<len_> astraljava I was using yesterdays images (23rd)
<len_> the 22nd image was bad.
<len_> I am using i386 BTW
<len_> Todays is coming in a few hours (3 or 4)
<astraljava> len_: Yep, I was using the amd64, but arch shouldn't really matter. That's why I thought you meant there are newer images than yesterday's.
<len_> astraljava, if todays image fails (when it comes) you will need to do another bug then...
<ailo> len_: I don't see any reason why we need both alsa mixer and PA mixer where the volume control is. I 
<astraljava> len_: Yeah.
<len_> ailo No, it might be better to have none.
<ailo> Since PA is the default server, the one in use, there should be a mixer for it. Right now it's just confusing
<len_> ailo, I guess what I am saying no matter which way it is set up it could be confusing.
<len_> However, in normal use, the user would have PA set to some reasonable level (higher than off) so when switching to PA-jack it should still work.
<len_> ailo when someone is using jack at all, they need to be using something that controls alsa directly. Either a card specific mixer or alsamix.
<len_> To get to qjackctl, they have to use the audio production menu... that has all those mixers in it.
<ailo> len_: No, they don't, since the apps are controlling the volume. The only time you need a mixer for your sound device, when PA doesn't cut it, is when you have a special card. In that situation you use something like mudita24, or alsamixer.
<ailo> Don't confuse things now
<ailo> PA is the sound server. But it's using alsa drivers, just like jack is
<ailo> So, no matter if you use PA or jack, you might need a specific mixer for your special card
<ailo> If you want to control PA, you need the PA mixer. And since PA is the default sound server, you can't use alsa mixer to control PA
<len_> ailo, it seems like the panel mixer should be the PA control. the PA control should be in the multimedia menu and the alsa mixer should be in with the other mixers
<ailo> I'm used to the "sound settings" mixer that Unity and Gnome3 uses. I think that one is the best for controlling PA
<ailo> The panel mixer should definately be a PA mixer
<ailo> alsamixer is a generic mixer for all alsa driver based cards
<len_> Can we still change these things this cycle?
<ailo> I would prefer we did
<ailo> Otherwise, it's very confusing
<ailo> ScottL: Please have a read :)
<len_> I would suggest then that we change the menu too. As I said PA in mutimedia and the alsa mix only in the mixer menu.
<len_> The alsa mixer is the non-card  specific but is the one to use with jack if your card doesn't require its own mixer.
<ScottL> ailo, len_ , i am about to start testing again and i'll read through (again) what you said and look about
<len_> ailo, next question... how do we change the panel icon app?
<len_> ScottL OK
<ailo> len_: I have no idea. But, I think knome said they were going to change theirs, even as late as now
<ailo> So, it should be possible for us to do it also
<len_> ailo ok, I'm going to verify that dual monitors still works ok. I will see if I can find a way to change what app the icon bringa up.
<astraljava> panel icon app?
<len_> astraljava the panel has an icon that changes the volume level, under it there is a sound settings button. I was thinking it could be set to run PA controls instead of alsa mix
<len_> The config file doesn't seem to have that option though.
<len_> I am guessing the whole applet needs to be changed.
<astraljava> len_: Yeah, that. I saw the change on the Xubuntu-side.
<astraljava> I can look into it if you like.
<len_> Both ailo and I agree it should be PA, but it might be best to ask Scott when he is free.
<astraljava> len_: ailo: Can you test a newer musescore that Laney linked to earlier? I'd like to get the comment on the bug as soon as possible, as we're so close to the release already.
<len_> What would I be looking for? I am kinda "score" dumb "play by ear/chord chart"
<astraljava> len_: I think it just needs a verification that it runs fine. I'm sure Toby has already verified it otherwise.
<astraljava> I'll just double-check it builds ok.
<ailo> astraljava: Do you have the link to the bug?
<astraljava> ailo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/musescore/+bug/962606
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 962606 in musescore (Ubuntu) "Please sync musescore=1.2+dfsg-1 from Debian/sid (main)" [Undecided,New]
<ailo> astraljava: I think the volume applet thing is pretty crucial. Without the change, the desktop doesn't feel ready for release
<ailo> It's LTS after all :)
<astraljava> ailo: I am not disagreeing. I just want Scott's ok on it.
<ailo> I'll test the new musescore right awat
<ailo> away
<ailo> Not a bad program btw
<astraljava> Yeah, so I've assumed.
<len_> Dual monitors still works as before... too bad it requires two apps to set it up.
<ailo> len_: Which two apps?
<ailo> astraljava: I'd have to compare with the older one, to see what the big deal is, but I assume there is one. It seems to work very well
<len_> It needs ARandR to set them side by side and then the display setting app to save it so it comes up on next login
<ailo> len_: The display setting is not able to do all that?
<len_> No the display setting would allow possitioning of monitors.
<ailo> Dual monitoring is big hazzle :p. Especially with ATI cards
<len_> a/would/won't/
<len_> a should be s
<len_> The position of monitors should be easy to include even if it is strictly text. It would be better than what we have now.
<len_> need to do a feature request to the xfce devs
<ailo> astraljava: It's major update, but there's still the PPA, so it's not impossible for people to get a newer version if they want to
<ailo> If it's possible to add it to the LTS, that would probably be good
<len_> astraljava musescore comes up ok and seems to work from what I can tell. I have an i386 and I think ailo (correct me if wrong) has amd64
<astraljava> ailo: I don't think anything specific needs to be tested. Just make sure it runs okay without any obvious issues. I'm not seeing any huge changes in the changelog Toby provided in the bug comments.
<ailo> astraljava: The bug fixes may not be in thousands (about 100), but they're probably annoying ones, and they've added a bunch of new languages, and so on, so I think it's should be regarded as a major update. It feels very clean and mature
<ailo> astraljava: One important feature is the ability to import Sibelius and Finale sheets
<ailo> That's a real dealbraker
<ailo> So, just on that account, I would say it makes a hige change for the users
<astraljava> ailo: Are you saying you're objecting to the sync?
<ailo> astraljava: Sorry, I meant to say the opposite :)
<ailo> I think it's a welcome upgrade
<astraljava> ailo: Ok. :) Good, then.
<astraljava> I'll comment on the bug saying it's welcomed whole-heartedly, it built just fine on a precise pbuilder.
<len_> ailo the display settings app has four option lists for each monitor: res, refresh rate, rotand reflection. I do not think it would be that hard to add one for position. The three options would be ontop, toright or below. Or just a textbox that only shows when there are two monitors that the user can manually set a position.
<len_> s/ontop/same
<len_> Anyway, dual monitors is verified as working.
<astraljava> Laney: Commented, feel free to proceed from our POV.
<len_> ScottL: one thing that does seem odd with current ISO is the two file managers. The default is nautilus, but double clicking a desktop icon gets thunar.
<ailo> len_: I have yet to test that program, but can't you just click the screens and move them into position?
<len_> Using which program?
<len_> ArandR lets me move with a click.
<ailo> len_: I'll have to test it myself. I was referring to whatever standard program XFCE uses for adjusting the screens
<len_> the xfce4 diplay setting applet does not, but it does let me save the setting so they work automatically on next login
<ailo> Such a delight using a scanner, when all you need to do is to plug it in, and scan. Not like Windows :P
<len_> Ya scanning is good. I use a combo scan/rpinter that someone left out side with a "free" sign on it... no printing, but scans fine.
<len_> ailo, the reason for including ARandR is the lack of default applet functionality.
<ailo> Just bought a new Canon scanner. 2400x2400 dpi. Checked in advance that it was supported. When I plugged it in, nothing happened. But, then I just opened the simple scan program and all I needed to do was push "scan", and it worked
<ailo> I'll be needing it to scan some school books to save money
<len_> ailo... quick hint, don't use 2400x2400... 300 or even 150 dpi is enough. Been doing the same thing for my wife with her text books
<ailo> len_: I will be using it for family pictures as well. Just tested the resolution. It's mind blowing. Just what I need. Don't want to scan all those pictures a second time :P
<ailo> Nah, for text, it's just so that you can read them. Don't want to be scanning for weeks either
<len_> I think mine maxs at 1200.
<ailo> Ah well. I'm getting some purple lines :(. Wonder if I'd get that with Windows
<len_> yikes
<ailo> The resolution is 10096 Ã 14173. Not visible when zoomed out, but when you zoom in they start appearing
<len_> Are they all the same distance apart or random?
<ailo> Same distance
<len_> So maybe the scanner is sending extra info at the end of every "packet" for something... 
<len_> Does simple scan use sane as a backend?
<ailo> I think so
<ailo> I'm reading up on stuff related right now
<ScottL> i got the weird error that len reported in ubiquity, i thought i had zsync'ed the yesterday's image, downloading the latest
<knome> hmm
<ScottL> len_, yeah, i'm not sure about the thunar/desktop icon thing, i almost removed the icons from the desktop because of that
<knome> ScottL, len_: if you can confirm any slideshow issues happening with the US slideshow as well as ubuntu, please file a bug for them, and attach any info on the testing hardware/emulation
<knome> ScottL, len_: file the bugs against ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu, btw. i will see if we can work those out
<len_> ScottL I have no problem with removing desktop icons... if so can we also get rid of that instance of thunar running
<ScottL> after i download yesterday's image the brand new one should be ready so i'll zsync from that one
<len_> ScottL todays ISO should show up before the end of the hour... you may wish to wait.
<astraljava> ScottL: Do you approve of the indicator plugin change for replacing the volume to PA?
<ScottL> len_, i'll zsync that one before testing again
<ScottL> knome, one of the things i want to look at is the slideshow, i'll note the experience and file bug if i notice anything
<ScottL> astraljava, i don't know yet, i would like to get a working install again and reread what len_ and ailo were discussing
<astraljava> ScottL: No problem. I can look into the switching tomorrow, then.
<ScottL> i think we have an overly complicated arrangement with the volume controls anyway
<len_> ScottL we don't have much choice...
<ScottL> that is very, very true, sadly
<len_> PA tries to make it less complex and does a good job for _most_ tasks.... ie casual listening.
<ScottL> however, this could be an area of opportunity for development :)
<ailo> I don't understand. PA is the default server. Right now, alsa mixer is the default volume control mixer. This is a bug
<ailo> When you push a button that says "sound settings" for your desktop audio, the right mixer should appear
<ailo> In this case, the PA mixer
<len_> The only place PA fails is when using Jack for audio production. In this case the interface specific mixer is used to setup the card and the application decides what level to send to the card... 
<len_> ailo I agree there. PA is for desktop use.
<ailo> len_: It's not a failure. It's just the way the software is designed
<len_> The desktop should reflect that
<ailo> Perhaps the PA mixer could be more advanced, adding more controls to it
<len_> I should have said use failure
<len_> PA is not designed for what jack is used for. They are two different uses.
<ailo> But, it's perfectly right that the PA mixer does not do anything else but control the software that is connected to it. 
<len_> Yup. I am agreeing with you... just not saying it well.
<ailo> If jack is controlling the card, and PA is connected to jack, why should PA control the card as well? That makes no sense at all
<ailo> jack does not have a mixer. It just connects ins and outs
<ailo> Or, that is it's mixer
<len_> yup.
<len_> To anyone who understands PA and jack, it makes perfect sense. And really, if someone wants to use jack effectively they need to understand it.
<ailo> Perhaps it might be a good idea to try attempt combining PA and jack under the same set of controls and the same interface. But, since they are not the same program, it would need to be a -controls type of app. 
<ailo> It would be best if you never needed to start jack. If you open a jack specific app, jack should start automatically
<ailo> And it is supposed to do that now, for some apps
<len_> ardour tries to do this, but most don't
<ailo> The problem is that the these are two completely different sound servers. To combine them, you'd need to have some kind of a smart plugin based setup for the app.
<len_> PA has some crash protection, that is it tries to restart itself if it fails. Jack still fails for odd reasons sometimes.
<ailo> The same control interface, but populated by different packages
<len_> that would beyond me... I would like it to control PA, jack, alsa and a2j.
<ailo> It might be a good idea to discuss these kind of things with the jack developers right now, since they are meaning to begin new development
<len_> Are they trying to include PA style fuction?
<ailo> I think I might do that, but I'll have to give it some thought. If jack comes with the right kind of flexible interface, and also PA, than nothing is impossible, I'm sure
<ailo> len_: No, but I believe they want to stop having jack1 and jack2, and instead just have one kind of jack
<ailo> One written from scratch
<len_> It would be nice to be able to run jack all the time
<len_> That is what I heard too.
<len_> It would be nice if they included a2j functioality
<ailo> If jack is functional enough to support all imaginable use cases, then nothing is impossible
<len_> They have the seq function, but it does not make it easy to identify alsa midi toys on the jack side.
<ailo> Perhaps it already supports all that we are talking about
<ailo> seq is a jack driver, is it not? a2jmidi was included into jack2 recently
<len_> Cool.
<len_> About time.
<ailo> It's working now, in fact
<ailo> If you choose seq as the midi driver, you get both jack and alsa midi
<len_> Ya it has for a while, but on the jack side the midi ports have been midi 1 to midi n not named
<len_> a2j bridges the names too.
<len_> Has that been fixed.
<ailo> I wish I knew coding better. I'm preparing to study computer engineering at the University. It'll take me a few more years before I can be of any real assistance if I would want to help develop something like jack. I just don't have the knowledge or that experience yet :(
<ailo> len_: I don't remember.
<len_> I'm checking now...
<astraljava> ailo: You don't necessarily need university education to start coding, though. I went through one course before making it a profession.
<astraljava> I'm not saying I'm good at it, but if it pays the bills...
<len_> ailo I start jack with seq turned on.. alsa shows midi though and virtual keyboard, jacks midi panel shows midi-capture1 and midi-capture2
<len_> setting jack to midi "raw" shows nothing in jacks midi... I have no midi card.
<len_> set jack midi to none... run a2jmidid and on jacks midi I get midi through and virtual keyboard
<len_> Much easier to use
<len_> ailo, unless there is a newer jack we don't ship yet... a2j functionality is still not there.
<ailo> astraljava: I do a fair share of coding, but in order to really get to the point where I'd like to be, a computer engineering education is probably going to help a bit
<ailo> len_: So, it's not exactly the same, but it still works to some degree
<astraljava> I don't see any images, wonder if the dailies are actually disabled for the Beta-2 ISO testing phase?
<astraljava> ailo: I understand, but I'm just saying you can start contributing even when you haven't still reached the point where you'd like to be. :)
<astraljava> Apparently not, there are the emails from the tracker. But no images, nonetheless.
<len_> ailo, try using it with a lot of midi inputs and outputs... seq gets to "not usable" real quick. You have to swich back and forth between screens and counts down on one side then the other screen.
<len_> There is an amd64 iso for today... maybe i386 is on its way.
<len_> yup i386 is there now too.
<len_> DLing...
<ailo> len_: I see. Not as good as it could be then
<ailo> Unity's dual monitoring sucks quite a bit, so I'm sure XFCE is not that far behind
<ailo> But, Gnome3 on the other hand, I like much better
<len_> can we use there settings app?
<len_> or does it pull in too much?
<len_> ailo, seq on jackd is bad enough to make installing a2j and using it worthwhile.
<ailo> Well, setting it up may be easier on both Unity and Gnome3, but the functionality once it's setup is another issue
<ailo> (once it's set up)*
<ailo> Unity is a little strange with dual monitors, at least when using nvidia drivers
<len_> Not having dual monitor... (i have an old quite dim crt I use for testing) I haven't had time to meet up with usabiliy issues.
<len_> I can't get the nvidia drivers to work well enough to boot.
<len_> I use the free ones.
<ailo> len_: An older card?
<ailo> Also, I hear nvidia support might be devreasing :(
<len_> ailo 6years or so.
<ailo> Getting ATI to work well should not be too difficult now that the specs are open. But, I guess too few are working on making the drivers work well
<ailo> Also, the proprietary drivers for ATI suck even more than the open ones
<len_> I'm not even sure I could get another card with the same socket.
<ailo> But that may be a matter of opinion
<ailo> ADP?
<ailo> AGP?*
<len_> I'm waiting till I get the next new MB.. not sure what it is called, but I have another card and it won't fit.
<len_> Is there away to find out by looking in /proc?
<len_> or syslog?
<ailo> I payed about 250$ for my latest computer. Bought it in parts, and reused such things as the computer case, DVD and so
<ailo> lspci
<ailo> Maybe that won't show agp cards
<ailo> It shows a lot more than just pci anyway
<len_> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV5M64 [RIVA TNT2 Model 64/Model 64 Pro] (rev 15)
<ailo> Ah, that's an old one :)
<astraljava> Ahh... there they are.
<astraljava> len_: What are you looking for? `sudo lshw -c display` should show it, if you're talking about graphics.
<astraljava> Oh, yeah, that too.
<ailo> Graphic cards are really cheap now. I recommend getting one without a fan. Any new model should do. Some might be buggy with 3d stuff though, but that doesn't matter to most people
<len_> capabilities: pm agp agp-2.0 vga_controller bus_master cap_list rom
<len_>        configuration: driver=nouveau latency=32 maxlatency=1 mingnt=5
<len_> So do they still sell cards for this slot?
<ailo> len_: I think so. At least they did not long ago
<len_> Not that it matters... it seems to work well enough.
<ailo> len_: If you upgrade your MB, you'll have to upgrade your power supply, RAM and perhaps your hard drive
<len_> I think one of the caps is going though, I get light coloured streaks though the picture.
<ailo> processor too of course
<ailo> len_: Do you ever do any 3d stuff on it? That would likely be the first thing that goes
<len_> The only thing is that I need two pci slots... one for the d66 and one for the midi card
<ailo> graphic cards don't usually survive for long
<ailo> len_: 2 pci seems to have been a standard in modern boards, so that's not hard to find. I have 2 slots in both my machines. 
<len_> But until I actually start doing some recording with what I have and find limitations I probably won't upgrade.
<ailo> len_: midi usb devices are not expensice. I have one, just for such situations when you don't have any other way of getting midi
<ailo> I have a m-audio uno, I think it's called
<len_> I owuld get what ever Long and Mcquade has... They have a few.
<ailo> I used a P3 about 1 1/2 year ago, and it worked well. Just a little bit noisy, and buying new IDE hard drives is not that cheap. Never got so serious that I would have bought a sata pci card for it
<ailo> 512 MB Ram
<ailo> puredyne was the OS I used. Based on XFCE as well
<len_> DL complete, writing iso to usb...
<ailo> I used it for live audio, and it worked ok. A little too slow in performance though. Just a tiny bit
<len_> I find the two I have too slow for live work too. Maybe with the new kernel.
<len_> For me live work means using it as a guitar effect...
<ailo> len_: Have you tried using a -realtime or a -lowlatency before with it?
<len_> Not yet. Is our new kernel been built with the right config yet?
<len_> I was playing with 11.10 so generic.
<ailo> The current kernel is the real deal
<len_> I'll try it on both boxes
<ailo> I played guitar using rakarrack for a couple of hours, and not a single xrun at -p64
<ailo> That's my minimum requirement. Some have -p32, which is a little bit more tricky
<len_> OK, -p64 means what? I have qjackctl's set up open...
<ailo> -p64 = 64 frames/period
<ailo> If you start jack, you could give it: jack -d alsa -d hw:1 -p64
<len_> for lat.. of 2.9?
<ailo> I have 2.67
<len_> qjackctl has f/p
<ailo> The -p argument stands for that, if you start jack from the command line
<len_> what sample rate?
<len_> mine is 44100
<ailo> Ah, right. At 44.1 I also read 2.9 ms
<ailo> But the ms is not correct though
<ailo> It all depends on the software you're using and who knows what else
<ailo> So, if it sounds ok, then it's ok
<len_> just making sure the rest of my setting were the same
<ailo> For me, it's -p64, using puredata, which is the software I use for just about everything audio these days
<len_> I need to learn PD I hear and read good things about it... but can't use it yet.
<ailo> len_: Takes a few days, or weeks, to really get into it. But once you do, you realize you can do anything you want.
<astraljava> ailo: One of these days I'll actually start _using_ our distribution, and you're gonna have to give me some lessons on how to do it. :) Guitar through rakarrack sounds like a good plan.
<len_> I get that idea.
<ailo> It's a fairly simple language to master well, but it still takes some time to get into it
<ailo> astraljava: It's been my problem too. I haven't been using most of the software before. Rakarrack is not too bad. I have a metal setting that I like. 
<len_> I take it after beta 2 things get pretty static as far as changes go, I may have some time to play around and get some good ideas for workflow.
<astraljava> ailo: Nice.
<ailo> len_: The main problem with pd is info. Hard to get it sometimes. Just have to bother people at #dataflow, and the pd mail lists
<astraljava> len_: Yeah, that's the idea.
<len_> booting todays ISO on the netbook.
<len_> The graphic screen while loading is right (plymouth?)
<len_> I guess Scott's default-settings change didn't make it...
<len_> Menu is still stock.
<len_> ScottL ^^
<astraljava> The version in the archives is 0.30
<len_> The code there is not fixed yet... the file still has the wrong name.
<len_> I'll try an install
<len_> No scrollbars on slide show.
<len_> slideshow still too tall... but then we knew that.
<len_> ubiquity doesn't ask which drive to install grub to. This means I have to mess with the bios if it guesses wrong... and then mess again to go live. Only a problem for someone who  tests a lot though.
<astraljava> Yeah, another gripe of mine with the GUI installer.
<astraljava> I'm really surprised how inferior it is, still, to d-i.
<ailo> len_: Did you try audio yet?
<len_> still installing.
<len_> it is DL extra packages just now... 20 min remaining.
<ailo> len_: I gotta say, you work hard with testing. It has to have meant a lot for this release
<len_> wlan is slow.
<astraljava> ailo: Agreed. And so have you. So a huge thanks to you both!
<astraljava> I think Scott should buy you barrels of beer or single malt or something for your efforts. :)
<len_> More memory...
<len_> My gut gets upset at more than about 1.5 beer at a time... wife too.
<ttoine> ailo, just to tell you that without the restricted driver, it is hard to have lowlatency in unity
<ttoine> but the lowlatency kernel works great. I did music all this afternoon, creating and recording a song with friends for a wedding, and the only matter was when we had to activate network to look for some extra stuff
<ailo> ttoine: Do you have irq conflicts?
<ailo> ttoine: cat /proc/interrupts
<ailo> I actually have the same IRQ for nvidia as I have for my internal card, now that I'm looking
<ailo> astraljava: I haven't done much after all. Propably you and len that deserve those beer the most
<ttoine> ailo, what shows that I have irq conflicts with the command you give me ?
<ailo> ttoine: Look for your sound device, and see what other devices are listed on that IRQ as well
<ailo> This is the IRQ for my m-audio device: 19:    5349097          0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   ata_piix, ata_piix, uhci_hcd:usb6, snd_ice1712
<ailo> ice1712
<ailo> This is my internal device: 16:     163587          0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   uhci_hcd:usb3, snd_hda_intel, nvidia
<ailo> hda_intel
<ailo> You can see what devices you have, and their names doing: cat /proc/asound/cards
<ttoine> ailo, so there snd_hda_intel appears on 2 different irq, the nvidia sound chipset of the graphic card appear on the same line than the usb sound card
<ailo> That also tells you what irq they have..
<ailo> ttoine: Me too, now that I look. One is "PCI-MSI-edge", and one is "IO-APIC-fasteoi". The latter is probably the one you should look at
<ailo> But, even though, I have actually not experienced any difference while using, or not using, rtirq-init script, so for me, this does not seem to matter
<ttoine> hum. I have 3. the intel, the usb, and the nvidia
<ailo> The usb propably does no harm, as long as you don't use it
<ailo> I should try experimenting with mine. I also have share usb with the sound devices
<ttoine> ailo, the usb soundcard is actually the sound card I am using for music
<ailo> ttoine: Right, but that's not intel
<ailo> The different usb ports probably have different irq's
<ailo> You could try using different usb ports
<ttoine> rtirq-init is not installed with the kernel ?
<ailo> It is a dependency for -lowlatency
<ailo> So, it should be installed
<ttoine> ailo, the usb card is a presonus and is recognized with its full name
<ttoine> ailo, but you told you don't use the script ?
<ailo> ttoine: It is recognized in it's full name from /proc/irq?
<ttoine> ailo, what is strange is that the intel chipset appear 2 times on the irq list, the second time with a usb stuff
<ttoine> and the nvidia share the irq of other usb stuf
<ailo> I have the script installed, but I've experimented before, but uninstalling it, and there was no difference in performance for me
<ttoine> ailo, no, it is not recognizer in /proc/irq
<ttoine> you're riht
<ttoine> right
<ailo> What I hear is that when you do have IRQ problems, you get xruns at every latency setting, even the highest ones
<ailo> Sometimes less in the lower ones
<ailo> Common for laptops
<ailo> Common problems have been, network card, and graphic card
<ailo> But, I'm sure there have been all sorts of problems
<ailo> Often rtirq-init script has solved those
<ailo> Add to that, the actual device you use makes a difference
<ailo> Also, I believe different kernel versions make a difference
<ttoine> perhaps
<ailo> Since the kernel developers aren't concerned with what we do, things can go either way what audio performance is concerned
<ailo> Add to that, I have noticed other stuff also make a difference
<ttoine> I still to have some test with my old intel laptop. it is a reference for me, when testing low latency kernel
<ailo> Last year we tested the -lowlatency kernel. After a month, the same exact kernel was not reliabe as much anymore
<ailo> So, something in Ubuntu had changed that
<ailo> That is what I find most interesting
<ailo> And I don't think anyone has a clue to what that is about
<ailo> After a month, we had updated our machines, and the same kernel did not perform the same way on the same machines
<len_> ailo, something when right. I didn't have to mess with the bios this time.
<ailo> len_: What do you usually have to do?
<ttoine> ailo, very strange, yes. maybe some change in the priorities in the Unity, Compiz, or the xorg driver...
<len_> Some times the install prints grub to a drive other than the install drive and I have to change the boot order in bios.
<ailo> len_: Perhaps you have to change the MB battery?
<ailo> If you the battery is low, and you power down the machine, each time you make changes to that bios, they will be back to default, if there's no battery power
<ailo> Wish my grammar was up to my IQ level :P
<len_> I normally have usb drive first so that if I plug a stick with an iso on it boots. As my test drive is also a usb drive, when I pull the memory stick out it tries to boot from there. However if the install decides instead to put grub on the internal drive I have to change the bios.
<len_> So yesterday grub ended up internal... today external... go figure.
<ailo> If you get the external grug, that means your bios decide on going for the external
<ailo> I guess it's strange for a bios to decide on which variable to boot, when they aren't there all the time
<len_> It is the same as booting from a cd or dvd the cd isn't there all the time, but the bios can be setup to boot from there.
<len_> in this case there is no dvd because it is a netbook, so I can set up bios to boot from a usb stick/drive if there is one.
<len_> The interesting thing is if I reboot things can change. When I want to boot from a stick I always boot from power off.
<len_> Anyway ScottL no noticable differences from yesterday.
<ailo> len_: The cd hardware is always existent, so it will always try to find something bootable there
<ailo> But, if you disconnect a usb stick, it won't be there the next time
<ttoine> bye
<ailo> If the bios was not able to drop those usb drives that aren't always plugged in, it would be swarmed with them after a while
<ailo> Or any hardware
<ailo> Each time it boots, I guess it checks if the hardware still is connected as last time. If not, it just deletes the info
<ailo> Seemd logical that way
<ailo> Seems*
<len_> ailo it is only one entry, it looks for any usb drive, not a particular one. I think it is because it is a netbook and a usb stick is like a floppy
<ailo> len_: Netbooks are special only in the way that some of the hardware is unpluggable. On any other board, all removable hardware should be regarded in the same fashion
<ailo> I mean, all removable hardware on all MB's should be regarded in the same fashion
<ailo> Some of it bootable, some of it not
<len_> I don't see why it would be that hard to look for usb drives and if there is one that is bootable, boot from it.
<len_> Anyway got stuff to do...
<ailo> len_: You're right. I've tried a few, when it comes to booting from usb, and they all behave a little different.
<Laney> astraljava: should we sync it in for the beta?
<Laney> astraljava: please comment on the bug indicating if you want it in now or after beta, please :-)
<ailo> Laney: What are the biggest benefits in this upgrade, do you think? I was reading through it, and I thought that besides bug issues, enhancing the ability to import Finale and Sibelius files seemed like a big thing
<Laney> ailo: I don't know anything about it, I'm just poking you guys as a member of the release team
<ailo> Laney: Why do you want the upgrade?
<ailo> Who wants it?
<Laney> I don't want it or not. Somebody requested it.
<Laney> if you have a problem then comment on the bug please.
<Laney> It's an ubuntustudio package, which is why I'm asking ubuntustudio developers
<ailo> It seemed like a good reason, that importing Finale and Sibelius files had improved. Those two softwares are market leading, so being able to import them to musescore is a good thing
<Laney> we can either sync it now so that it will get into the beta or wait until after
<ailo> I don't understand how all of this works, but astraljava said it build fine in Precise, so I guess what dependencies are concerned, it's ok to import
<ailo> I guess, usually, the stuff that is upgraded is done automatically, through Ubuntu
<ailo> ubuntustudio does not tend to specific packages, normally
<ailo> In this case, I can see why it would be a good idea to upgrade
<Laney> we tend to ask if it is on an image
<Laney> thanks for your input
<ailo> Laney: image?
<Laney> yes, musescore is on the ubuntustudio dvd
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-03-25
<astraljava> Laney: Done, thanks!
<Laney> ok, thanks to you too!
<astraljava> ailo: This was mostly a release-specific issue. Beta-2 ISO testing is underway, so unnecessary package upgrading in the middle of it is frowned upon, unless there is a dire need. In this case, we can certainly wait until the testing is done, but prior to final freeze.
<astraljava> release-process-specific*
<ailo> It's not easy getting to know how all of this works
<ailo> It's not like you get pointed to a manual
<ailo> I should probably read the wiki a bit closer
<ailo> But, we should probably have a better way of instructing new collaborators on how to help US
<astraljava> ailo: It's alright. I mostly learn by asking questions, too. Nothing wrong with that. :)
<ailo> astraljava: Except that way is not very energy efficient
<astraljava> ailo: But yeah, enhancing docs is never a bad idea.
<ailo> Perhaps we should try to form some kind of a API for new particiapants
<ailo> I think we should open this thing up more
<ailo> In a structured manner
<ailo> Too few people involved, but also, too introspective
<astraljava> ailo: Sure. There's already quite a lot in help.u.c and wiki.u.c, so making some sort of platform from where to jump to existing would probably be easiest and most efficient.
<ailo> astraljava: That sounds great. And whenever someone wants to join in, tell the: read this. If you want to do that: read this first...
<ailo> There are so many things going on too
<ailo> It's not only the admin stuff
<ailo> A distro is bigger than one person
<ailo> Delegation
<ailo> And, most importantly, communication
<astraljava> We used to have a responsible person for documentation, but I don't know what happened to it, if [s]he's still active etc.
<ailo> astraljava: We should probably try to join forces on that.
<ailo> Perhaps that would be a good first step for next release
<ailo> Good docs
<knome> we definitely should join forces
<knome> i mean, xubuntu needs new docs too
<knome> and, since there's a lot in common (xfce) ...
<len_> Yesterdays jack was wonderful, todays is no good...
<len_> or maybe it is qjackctl
<len_> I can't use qjackctl to start jack
<len_> I have rebooted.... looked at the settings. If I start ardour with no jack running and let ardour start jack then start qjackctl things seem fine.
<len_> After login, if I start qjackctl but don't start jack but do a ps x, I can see jackdbus -auto running. It seems to get started at the same time as qjackctl...
<len_> but qjackctl thinks it is not.
<len_> What changed from yesterday?
<len_> Ok, change to -p 128 and it seems to work...
<len_> Ardour was working because it defaults to 1024.
<len_> Headphone jack causes xruns... not a problem, just my headphone jack. Alsa auto switches the speaker off and headphone on when the headphones plug in.
<len_> ailo, was it you that was having problems with qjackctl? As in not stopping jackd?
<ailo> len_: Me, and ScottL. You too?
<len_> Maybe try it with -p128
<len_> I was having all kinds of problems trying -p64.
<ailo> len_: Trying a higher latency is not going to solve the problem for me
<len_> I switched to 128 and it works fine.
<len_> I'm not saying it solves the problem...
<ailo> If qjackctl is not able to stop jack, it's a clear bug
<len_> just that it may say where to start looking.
<len_> Yes. but if changing settins fixes it then it is a speed related bug.
<len_> Not just a bug.
<len_> You can see my problem just backscroll a bit.
<len_> My question is if my problem is the same one or different.
<len_> I may have just hit my hardware limits.
<len_> I was able to switch to 64 while jack was running with guitarix. It did seem to work. but Ardour calls 64 a setting error.
<ailo> len_: It's not a hardware limit.
<ailo> It' never happened before
<len_> ok.
<len_> I don't have enough experience to tell.
<ailo> To my knowledge, qjackctl has never had any problems stopping jack, only now(jackdmp)
<ailo> I've filed a bug
<len_> mp mean multi-processor?
<len_> Seems to me the jack devs found the MP didn't help that much anyway.
<ailo> len_: Please confirm, if you experience the same bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qjackctl/+bug/956438
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956438 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "qjackctl unable to stop jackd2" [Undecided,New]
<ailo> In my view, this is a major but, that prevents ubuntustudio LTS from being a "stable" distro"
<ailo> bug*
<len_> I am going to have to make it happen I guess. Today, I spent a long time just getting jack to start.
<ailo> len_: What do you mean, getting jack to start?
<len_> if I set -p 64 jackctl won't start jackd.
<len_> 128 is ok.
<ailo> len_: That may depend on the hardware
<ailo> Most device will not start in -p16
<len_> I think it does, that is my netbook after all.
<len_> Atom chip and all.
<ailo> M-audio devices should, but it doesn't mean they will run without xruns
<ailo> Atom is like P3
<ailo> So, 128 sounds about right
<len_> I don't know that I will have the time to install in the desktop.
<len_> OK, I will test with 128. guitarix sounds not too bad... a bit noisy though.
<ailo> If there are no xruns, then it's not the fault of jack anyway
<len_> Could be my input circuits.
<len_> The only xruns I had were when the jeadphone jack wiggled... 
<len_> Auto mutes speakers and stuff.
<len_> ailo thanks for the help. I'll play with it and see if I can get the same problem.
<ScottL> len_, dont' forget to please report your tests on the iso tracker, por favor
<len_> How many do you want me to report?
<len_> ScottL ^^
<len_> ailo, confirmed Bug #956438 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956438 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "qjackctl unable to stop jackd2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956438
<len_> Happens to me about every 3 or 4th time. I generally have to restart qjackctl to get anything to work. It seems to be a dbus problem. 
<len_> Thats it for me tonight...
<ailo> The problem seems to be that qjackctl does not properly shut down jackdbus
<ScottL> len_, if you just can mark the i386 ones that you did, i'm getting the two 64bit
<ScottL> i'll be filing a few bugs tomorrow and including them against these images (not that it's the images fault)
<len-1204> ailo, can you confirm something for me. I found that while qjackctl says it can't stop jack, if I restart qjackctl... on restart it knows jack is already stopped and is able to start jack. This seems to be a qjackctl problem.
<ailo> len-1204: I would say it's the same bug
<ailo> len-1204: there's a problem with how qjackctl controls jacdbus. We should take this up with the autor
<ailo> author*
<len-1204> Ya I figured that, but that fact that just restarting qjackctl fixes it says this is not jack.
<ailo> len-1204: It's not jack. It's qjackctl
<len-1204> Instead of erroring out it should just reset itself.
<len-1204> ailo, nobody has done AMD64 tests?
<ailo> len-1204: The bug? It's still assigned to "nobody"
<len-1204> I mean beta testing. the test page sho
<len-1204> ws no tests on amd64
<ailo> I see
<len-1204> just my 3 on i386
<len-1204> I was going to add this bug there
<len-1204> done.
<ScottL> len-1204, ailo : i did the amd64 testing and reported
<len-1204> Good
<len-1204> ScottL, it seems that I did my reports in the wrong place ... I used the links in the irc title.
<len-1204> I have now done other reports in the right (I hope ) place.
* astraljava changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel |  https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio |
<astraljava> Beta-2 images require testing, please help if you can! http://bit.ly/GPCUj0 and http://bit.ly/GNqXgt
<astraljava> grrr
* astraljava changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel |  https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | Beta-2 images require testing, please help if you can! http://bit.ly/GPCUj0 and http://bit.ly/GNqXgt
<astraljava> Thanks for pointing the error out, len_!
<len_> astraljava NP Scott said he had done reports but your link didn't point to it so I went looking.
<astraljava> len_: Yeah, the tracker was updated, so those links were outdated.
<len_> astraljava are we supposed to keep filling in more reports or update the ones already filled out?
<len_> as bugs get fixed or we find more.
<len_> holstein have you tried a new iso yet?
<len_> it is looking much nicer, rt priv, new kernel nice backdrop...
<holstein> len_: nah
<holstein> im slammed!
<holstein> a double today
<holstein> then, im working for like 4 weeks straight almost
<holstein> like 10+ shows a wekk
<holstein> week*
<len_> Sounds good ... I think
<holstein> which is great actually
<holstein> just busy
<len_> I'm once a week just now. My day job is physically taxing
<len_> 2015 that will be finished though.
<len_> ScottL, astraljava ailo... et all. There has been some talk about the new kernel and the capability that can come from it. What settings can be achieved with it etc. It would be nice to have some place that is more hardware specific.
<holstein> len_: you have one show a week?
<holstein> like a steady thing?
<len_> as I found with my netbook, -p64 makes things not work... -p128 is fine.
<len_> Ya, volunteer though.
<holstein> len_: thats cool.. steady is good!
<len_> Its a church gig, but I enjoy it. pretty high energy and lots of room to improvise
<holstein> sounds great... i usually avoid those because of the time commitment per dollat, and because they are typically early in the AM
<holstein> dollar*
<len_> Besides playing once is like practising five times
<holstein> but, i have heard a few praise groups or whatever that i really enjoyed, and would have liked to have been a part of
<holstein> len_: totally
<len_> I play bass but mostly play around at home with guitar.
<len_> I figure once I retire I will see if I can  get involved with something in the communities that can only be reached by boat.
<len_> There are a lot of them just north of here.
<holstein> nice
<len_> holstein BTW, the ISOs live version are really close to an installed system. So a look at the live without installing is much quicker and easier.
<len_> Time to go... bye now.
<holstein> i know right?
<holstein> i think its awesome live! 
<holstein> len_: later
<ScottL> meeting?
<ScottL> anyone
<knome> wut?
<knome> :)
<len_> ScottL I am just leaving unless it is right now ;-)
<ScottL> nah, len_ , it's okay, i'm late for it anyway
<ScottL> i forget if it is supposed to be 10am or 11am (my time)
<ScottL> mainly i would like to talk to micahg or maybe knome about timing and what or can't be done at this point
<len_> ScottL, with the beta 2 testing, how many times are we supposed to report? Are we to add to our reports as bugs are /fixed found?
<knome> ScottL, you can go ahead :)=
<ScottL> len_, the point of the milestone testing (i.e. the ones that the iso qa testing website emails us about) is to validate the image
<len_> Ok, I have passed both live and install
<ScottL> len_, if the image isn't any good then we can't really test throughout that period
<ScottL> len_, great!  thanks :)
<ScottL> we will continue testing and reporting bugs and fixing things as necessary
<len_> So we have a pass for all 4 tests then
<ScottL> aye, this is important
<len_> Yup
<ScottL> we show we have a good track record of not only *testing* them, but also having working images
<ScottL> (with bugs perhaps, but the images are valid)
<ScottL> knome, at this point there are a few items that i would still like to fix (partly due to the mad rush to get things in before beta2 freeze)
<ScottL> knome, and i'm wondering what we would be able to accomplish
 * ScottL is getting his notes from upstairs
<len_> The two bugs are menu (minor) and qjackctl more major.
<knome> ScottL, what kind of stuff is that?
<knome> ScottL, trivial bugfixes should be fine...
<len_> knome the menu is a filename change.
<ScottL> len_, i agree, but i do expect to get the menu bug fixed, but i doubt we have time to resolve the qjackctl one (as it will probably include either some foundational changes or even upstream)
<ScottL> but i could be wrong about that and it's a five minutes thing we can ourselves without even asking, but then again, maybe i'm wrong about being wrong which means i'm right
<len_> ScottL as long as the "work around" is well known...
<knome> i'm pretty sure you can fix the menu issue. report a bug, give a rationale why it should be fixed, upload a patch, subscribe the release team and optionally ping them at #ubuntu-release too
<knome> ^ "upload a patch" meaning, upload it to the ubuntu bug
<len_> bug 963498
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963498 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "menu is not ubuntu studio version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963498
<len_> ScottL you can confirm it if needed
<knome> FFe bugs should stay "new", until release team sets them as "triaged", meaning that you have the exception
<len_> FFe = ?
<knome> feature freeze exception
<len_> OK
<knome> or any freeze exceptions to that matter, so Fe bugs
<ScottL> knome, len_ :  sorry, daughter is supposed to be cleaning room and i need to get involved :/
<knome> np
<ScottL> knome, would it be better to "fix" such bugs as a patch or just to fix the bzr code under ubuntustudio-dev ?
 * ScottL would also like to aggregate a list of current bugs and determine which we want to try to address during B2
<len_> Its ok I have to go anyway. I have probably added what I have today. Most of my thoughts are post beta anyway.
<ScottL> len_, thanks again, you have been a HUGE help, no kidding
<len_> thanks.
<ScottL> knome, here is my list of things that i noticed and want to file bugs:
<knome> ScottL, i suppose either works, as long as you don't push anything into the release before the exception ACK
<ScottL> knome, i wouldn't have that authority becuase i can't upload to the repos from the bzr branch (well, not yet at least, presumably i am working towards that)
<ScottL> however, i would like to push the fix to the bzr branch so i know it's there for whatever the next milestone or release or whatever
<ScottL> okay, list:
<ScottL> 1. no background image during installation when installing from starting menu
<ScottL> 2. not sure why when installer begins it says "You may wish to _update this installer_"
<knome> ScottL, yeah, uploading to a branch is fine i suppose, but be ready to provide a patch file is asked :)
<ScottL> 3. uses xfce logo for partitioning setup during instllation
<ScottL> 4. scrollbars during installation slideshow
<ScottL> 5. menu is not the ubuntu studio menu
<ScottL> ..
<knome> ScottL, i thought the scrollbar issues were fixed, at least i didn't notice any today on amd64 desktop
<ScottL> to be honest, i'm only really worried about #5 at this time, the rest might detract from a polished released but not major obstacles
<ScottL> knome, i noticed it last night after i downloaded the mar 24th image
<knome> hmmh.
<ScottL> on amd64
<ScottL> it almost seems like the image is causing to require the scroll bars
<knome> weird. though i did text X, not US
<knome> well yeah, that can be, but otoh, shouldn't happen
<ScottL> heheh, yeah, i thought about testing xubuntu last night
<ScottL> i'll fix the menu file name later today, update the bug, add [FFe] to it and subscribe the release team
<ScottL> oh, i'd like to finally read what ailo, len_ , and astraljava where talking about and understand it
<knome> ScottL, i don't think you should add the [FFe] yourself, if i've understood correctly
<ScottL> meant to yesterday but family drug me out of the house more than i expected to
<ScottL> knome, okay, are you suggesting that i just subscribe the release-team?
<knome> ScottL, yes
<knome> ScottL, and really, even if it's not "needed", pinging them at #ubuntu-release is usually helping a lot...
<knome> ScottL, especially if you do that with nick highlight ;)
<ScottL> aye, good advice :)  thanks knome 
<ScottL> i need to address a few more issues around the house and then i'll do it
<knome> np
<astraljava> knome: Why shouldn't Scott add [FFe]?
<knome> astraljava, i thought the release team adds that
<astraljava> I always add it already when I file it.
<astraljava> It's easier for them if it's there already, no need to edit the title.
<astraljava> It's just like a tag, nothing more to it.
<knome> k
 * knome will remember that the next time
 * astraljava notes the Xfce4 project not being big on documenting their dev process...
<knome> heh
 * knome notes that the xubuntu wikipages are wayy cleaner than 24h ago: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Cleanup
<astraljava> I don't know how to read that page. Is the list for pages that need cleaning, or what?
<astraljava> Err... wrong channel.
<knome> huh? :P
<ScottL> astraljava, what was that ailo and len and you were talking about yesterday?  the audio mixer in the panel?
<ScottL> can you summarize it easily?
 * ScottL will be back in about fifteen minutes and should start some studio work
<astraljava> knome: That is Xubuntu-talk, so should happen on #xubuntu-devel, no? :)
<knome> bleh
<astraljava> ScottL: knome can fill you in on why they changed the mixer that the indicator plugin commands.
<astraljava> ScottL: For much the same reason, Len wanted to change it too, for [us|US].
<knome> ScottL, xfce4-mixer has some serious problems with PA. if, and, as we are going to use PA in the future, it's a good idea to migrate to pavucontrol now
<knome> ScottL, we've been telling users to do that for a few releases already anyway
 * astraljava wonders about the state of bug #961371, the upload has already happened, and it's only now triaged
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961371 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please update ubuntustudio-default-settings for precise" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961371
<ScottL> astraljava, we could use that one to fix the menu filename issue ;)
<ScottL> astraljava, would you like to go ahead and make the change then for the pavucontrol/xfce-mixer plugin ?
<astraljava> ScottL: I don't really care who does it, I was just asking for your opinion on it. Do you agree? You are the head of project, after all, so I didn't wanna make the change without consulting you first.
<ScottL> astraljava, yes, i agree with that :) 
<ScottL> i'm going to make changes to the menu filename now
 * ScottL wonders should he use bug 961371 for the it or make another one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961371 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please update ubuntustudio-default-settings for precise" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961371
<astraljava> ScottL: Yes, I was rather annoyed with the state of that bug just a while back.
<astraljava> It's still being handled in LP, when in fact the package has already uploaded.
<astraljava> already been*
<scott-upstairs> i had forgotten about the one that len has filed, but found it and use it
<scott-upstairs> bug #963498
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963498 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] menu is not ubuntu studio version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963498
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, knome: do either of you know what is required to chagne xfce-mixer to pavucontrol?
 * scott-upstairs thinks he does
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, ailo, len_ :  was your thinking to replace the plugin in the panel with pavucontrol ?
<scott-upstairs> if so i should wait to ping or subscribe the release-team then
<scott-upstairs> (although i guess even if we are just removing the xfce-mixer plugin we should not ping/subscribe release-team yet)
<scott-upstairs> okay, going out to mow grass for an hour or so
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: No, the plugin is fine, but what it _controls_ would be changed.
<ScottL> astraljava, oh, i haven't a clue on how to do that
<ScottL> i was wondering if we could include that change as well
<knome> ScottL, astraljava: if you need help with it, you should ask mr_pouit and/or ochosi, they know
<astraljava> knome: I saw the discussion over on your channel, so I'll find the relevant changes. Thanks
<astraljava> +!
<knome> :)
<ScottL> thanks astraljava :)
<astraljava> ScottL: The only thing is that we're _really_ late in the cycle already. Are you sure you want the change to be done, still?
<astraljava> Beta-2 has just been tested. The next AND final test is the final image.
<astraljava> Umm... what is this? Why are ISO testing images updated every day?
<knome> astraljava, i've heard they're switching to manual soon
<knome> astraljava, there was so many changes that they would've needed to respin anyway
<astraljava> knome: Ok, and they respan every image at the same time?
<astraljava> It's rather frustrating, as this means we're gonna have to report against the new images _again_.
<astraljava> ...unless there was a US-specific update that caused the image respin, in which case my frustration would be unfair. :)
<ScottL> astraljava, we can wait until next cycle
<ScottL> i thought it was going to be an easy update and aligned with the xubuntu was doing
<ScottL> if it is going to cause a lot of trouble or get us unnecessary (and probably unwanted) attention, i say we just go forward the way it is then
<ScottL> just through mowing, need to shower, and get a few things in town, i'll complete the menu update bug report (pinging release and subscribing them) then
<astraljava> ScottL: Well, had we made the change prior to Beta-2 testing, I'd be more confident. But, like I said, your call. :)
<ScottL> i'm good the way it is for now, i just thought it would be a low key (and easy) thing to get done, i'll it to my list for next cycle
<ScottL> which i suppose we need to talk about sometime soon
<ScottL> especially since uds blueprints should be opened to submission soon
<astraljava> Yep, good idea.
<knome> astraljava, as i've understood, they just haven't moved to "manual" yet.
<astraljava> Right.
<len_> DLs are slow today
<len_> knome, just reading through the irc logs... re scroll bars... very hard to pinpoint. They show up once in a while... sometimes they then vanish... sometimes they never show up at all.
<knome> yup
<len_> Same image same machine 
<len_> Prolly not worth going after right now.
<knome> most probably not
<len_> I think I even saw them on the ubuntu desk top iso.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-18
<Hummus> hello
<Lumpy> len, you about?
<Lumpy> i screwed up on my nick againg
<Lumpy> er again
<Lumpy> kk, i am going to get my nick right
<Lumpy> i got the beta, gonna install tomorrow
<Len-nb> Nick? Lump|AFK ?
<Hummus> So basically, to get involved in the dev group, I just help out withtesting the beta?
<wft> hello
<zequence> micahg: I've updated ubuntustudio-look to include a new wallpaper with required info, including licensing. The author wished to another version of creative commons
<zequence> lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-look/UbuntuStudio
<zequence> I'd appreciate if you could take a look, and upload it for us
<zequence> I don't expect we'll be making any more changes before final release
<zequence> This looked updated enough as an example to me http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/
<zequence> That's what I followed adding the new copyright info. 
<micahg> zequence: ok, will have a look later tonight
<zequence> Ah, damn. Patching hell
<len> zequence, what is the app behind "videos"? is that totem?
<zequence> len: Yes
<len> crashes for me
<len> Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.conf", line 9: reading configurations from ~/.fonts.conf is deprecated.
<len> totem: nv04_state_frag.c:248: get_texenv_mode: Assertion `0' failed.
<len> Aborted (core dumped)
<len> bug report
<len> Good thing we also include xine.
<zequence> totem has been funny for a while for me. Does Xubuntu include totem?
<len> no
<len> I can't remember what they include (the name) but it had aspect ratio problems in 12.04 which is why we switched.
<zequence> totem is usually a pretty good, simple video player
<len> It seems to me it has been ok now though
<zequence> vcl has also had it's buggy moments. Maybe not on a stable Ubuntu release though
<len> totem has crashed when used by firefox to play mp3s, used as context to play a video or just started from the command line.
<len> vlc has worked for me, I tend to keep a few and if one doesn't work for a video I try another
<zequence> mplayer has probably seen better days. mplayer2 I guess is the current one, but is it good?
<len> I don't know what is the best any more. libav may be a part of the problem too.
<zequence> Good thing about mplayer is that it's really nice controlling it from the cli
<zequence> Well, starting it at least
<len> vlc or xine work too.
<len> but mplayer has a simpler CLI if I remember right
<zequence> It doesn't have a gui by defauil
<zequence> You need to add one separately
<zequence> It just shows the video
<zequence> The command line options are pretty extensive too
<zequence> This patch seems to work, as I have tested it, but I'm trying to figure out what I'm seeing here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~zequence/ubuntu/precise/jackd2/fix-for-956438/view/head:/debian/patches/jackdbus-stop-fix.patch
<zequence> Seems like the files needed some text-displacement, or someting
<zequence> This is what I was hoping it would look like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~zequence/ubuntu/quantal/jackd2/fix-for-956438/view/head:/debian/patches/jackdbus-stop-fix.patch
<len> zequence, ya the second one looks a lot better.
<zequence> The second is the jackd2 quantal source, while the first is precise
<zequence> There's a bit of commit history between them, so I guess I should just feel lucky the patch even worked
<len> Ah, different jack versions too then?
<zequence> Both 1.9.8, but the quantal source is a git snapshot
<zequence> So, a bit of time between them
<zequence> The patch is a combination of two git commits
<zequence> ..which falktx pointed out for me, many months ago by now
<len> pretty much a different version. What is happening then is you are upgrading part of P to Q, but not the whole thing.
<zequence> No, I'm updating both P and Q with a bug fix, which only appears later
<len> Does p build if the q diff is set against it.
<zequence> They both build fine
<zequence> I've uploaded them to a PPA
<zequence> the bugfix works
<len> Works is a strong case :)
<zequence> In P, when I applied the change - which was another patch, they were applied successfully, but with some added diff
<zequence> Getting late, so I'm not explaining very well
<len> anyway, I'm gong to end up off line for a bit... I am finally upgrading my server to P... I need this drive to back it up first.
<zequence> micahg: Don't forget to upload -looks before user interface freeze (if you have the time). Do we need a bug report for that, btw? I guess there's some time tomorrow too. I'll be going to sleep now anyway
<zequence> len-dt: I documented what I've been doing so far here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/StableReleaseUpdates
<zequence> It's probably not the best source right now, but at least it's a start
<len-dt> I should look at it and do default settings for P
<len-dt> It would fix about 3 bugs... only thing I am not sure of is if I need to redo them one at a time
<zequence> len-dt: What bugs?
<len-dt> help icon in menu goes nowhere.
<len-dt> some apps in the wrong place.
<zequence> I can see the point in changing that for 12.04.3
<zequence> Don't think we need to create patches for those though
<zequence> I think my SRU description is being very focused on a single case right now
<micahg> zequence: nah, if it doesn't violate FF, no bug needed, I'll try to get to it tonight
<zequence> micahg: Ok, great
<len-dt> LP: #966539,
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966539 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Mudita24 and xfcemixer should not be in the "Media playback" submenu" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966539
<zequence> len-dt: In the case of our own sources, we make a bug report - following the SRU process. Then, do a bzr branch of that release. Do the changes, and push as I describe further down
<len-dt> That part is done.
<len-dt> It is just that it is not all one bug or fix. 
<zequence> len-dt: That was uploaded to quantal, then?
<len-dt> It is all already in quantal and I have home built the package and tried it.
<len-dt> Heres the changelog:
<len-dt>  * Create branch for precise LTS bug fixes
<len-dt>   * Moved extra mixers to mixers submenu from media playback menu.
<len-dt>     (LP: #966539)
<len-dt>   * Moved other uninstalled apps from media playback menu to proper place
<len-dt>     within Audio Production menu.
<len-dt>   * Moved Category AudioEditing to Audio Production so that Ardour
<zequence> So, now you want it into precise as well, right?
<len-dt>     packages from Ardour website are in the right place.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966539 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Mudita24 and xfcemixer should not be in the "Media playback" submenu" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966539
<len-dt>   * Remade Photography menu icon.
<len-dt>   * Added MIDI utilities menu.
<len-dt>   * Created icon for MIDI menu.
<len-dt>   * Reorganized Audio Production menu to group items logically by use.
<len-dt>   * Removed Zynjacku from effects menu. Did not add to the sound generators
<len-dt>     menu because it is no longer maintained and it function is allready
<len-dt>     covered by Calf Plugin Pack.
<len-dt>   * Corrected *.directory files for Accessories, Education, Network in
<len-dt>     the menu file. Left over from Gnome DE.
<len-dt>   * Corrected help icon in menu to fix document not found. Corrected
<len-dt>     text from Xfce to UbuntuStudio.
<len-dt> ya
<len-dt>  lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio.precise
<zequence> So, I'm going to edit the bug report, and set it to also affect another distribution
<zequence> Wait, no
<len-dt> I think they already do
<zequence> If you look at Bug #956438 
<ubottu> bug 956438 in jackd2 (Ubuntu Quantal) "jackdbus crashes on stop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956438
<zequence> You see both Precise and Quantal
<len-dt> Ok I see what you mean.
<zequence> len-dt: That was done before quantal was release though, right?
<len-dt> Yes.
<zequence> Which makes it just a bug fix, rather then a SRU
<len-dt> How do I set the bug for fixed in quanal and not in precise
<zequence> It was fixed in the development release before quantal, so we don't really need to worry about that
<zequence> Now we just need to make a SRU for precise
<len-dt> Ya, but first the bug has to be open for precise right?
<zequence> I think it might be good to have a look at the SRU process as well
<zequence> ..first
<zequence> I won't be able today, but I'm working on several SRUs now. Will add this one to the list
<zequence> oh, it's already added
<len-dt> Ok, if I need to start over and do One fix at a time, that is ok. I am willing to do that.
<len-dt> There are really three of them in there and some other misc house keeping things too.
<len-dt> I did it that way becasue that was how it ws done in quantal
<zequence> ok, that's it for me. See you tomorrow
<len-dt> bye
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-19
<len-dt> Lumpy, more mumbling to you in email...
<micahg> zequence: -look uploaded
<zequence> micahg: Thanks
<zequence> That should hopefully mean we're done for this release
<zequence> len-dt: The extra data in the patch was cause when I applyed the changes (which was by applying another patch), it worked, but not perfectly - so for safety it kept .orig files of all changed files
<zequence> I just needed to remove the .orig files
<zequence> Well, from the debian patch, that is
<len-dt> upgrading doesn't work from a serial console. It wants a direct kb and monitor.
<zequence> serial console?
<len-dt> Ya, my server has an old ampex terminal. headless otherwise
<len-dt> I upgraded from 12.04 -1 LTS to 12.04...
<len-dt> Now I get to trouble shoot :P
<len-dt> Upgrades don't like an SSH login either
<len-dt> So I had to connect a monitor to do it. All back to serial again now though.
<len-dt> imap has a problem with permissions though. It can play with messages in the user's home directory, but not the inbox.
<zequence> hi ttoine 
<ttoine> hi zequence 
<len-dt> Odd, I had to reinstall the printer driver after upgrading.
<len-dt> zequence, re Bug #1077372 in precise. Do we really want to try fixing this?
<ubottu> bug 1077372 in ubuntustudio-icon-theme (Ubuntu Precise) "When installing Ubuntu Studio, the logo in the auto-paritioning step is wrong" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077372
<zequence> len-dt: What icon is it? I have forgotten about that
<len-dt> It would mean creating a -icon-theme just for precise. Like adding a meta that is not there now.
<len-dt> The current icon is the xubuntu one.
<len-dt> (or maybe vanilla xfce)
<len-dt> This is not fixed till 13.04
<len-dt> zequence, this is an icon that the user will see exactly once, when they install.
<zequence> I'm not too concerned about that, but I guess one could just SRU the current icon theme to precise, when fixing that
<len-dt> And set it active in -settings
<zequence> Maybe for 12.04.3, if it feels relevant?
<len-dt> The only person who has said anything is smartboyhc and the only people who have commented have been on the dev team
<len-dt> Personally I think it is a bit trivial.
<zequence> I agree
<len-dt> I would like to set it to "won't fix"
<zequence> But, if we were to do any kind of significant change to the looks, we'll do that at the same time
<len-dt> Well, if we want to change the icons and add the icon-theme. That would mean doing all the menu changes too.
<zequence> I could imagine doing that for 12.04.3
<len-dt> Do we want to do that? I guess the next LTS is a year away.
<zequence> Yeah, it's getting a bit late
<len-dt> Do we need to have a set of bug reports?
<zequence> I don't think they will hurt anyway
<len-dt> Would this be SRU? or some other term?
<zequence> SRU, I believe. But I'm not sure how flexible they are with this
<len-dt> I think What I need to do then is to redo the settings branch for precise from release. Then just add bug fixes one commit at a time.
<len-dt> People who already have the LTS are used to what they have, changing the menu now could be confusing and seem broken if an app they use moves to a different sub menu.
<len-dt> It might be like the app was gone to them not moved.
<len-dt> Those who have already installed will not be seeing a change in partition icon.
<zequence> Is the menu configs not put in user files, or is that just after you make an edit?
<len-dt> It never ends up in user files.
<zequence> Sure about that?
<len-dt> Even if edited, there is just a diff added in the user dir
<len-dt> I have played with it and looked at the files.
<zequence> Well, I'm not going to push for it. I'm just happy if we can get the jackd bug fix in to begin with
<zequence> It's getting close now
<zequence> After it's done, I'll do pulseaudio too
<zequence> And a couple more
<len-dt> Those are more important.
<zequence> timothymillar: Hi
<timothymillar> quick question how do a direct a question at you with the zequence:
<zequence> I didn't catch that properly
<zequence> Have you been involved in helping out with anything distro-wise before?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-20
<timothymillar> nothing yet,
<timothymillar> so sorry if I'm a little slow but I'm a pretty quick learner
<zequence> It's not a big deal joining the team, really. It's just that for someone who hasn't done that before might have a bit of a learning curve. Many people show interest, but very few stick around, unfortunately
<timothymillar> I had some issues with Ubuntu Studio a couple years ago and stopped using it but now I'm ready to work to understand it for the better good
<zequence> I can assure you, that if you do want to contribute, you'll get all the assistance you need to learn what you need to here
<timothymillar> i'm pretty motivated as I'm a music writer and use a lot of open source software to create music and just want it to be better
<zequence> I like that. It's a good start
<timothymillar> I'm up for the test, I hope to surprise you with sticking around!
<zequence> That's pretty much how I started out here
<timothymillar> so the USB issue you mentioned, I'm pretty confident I can get studio to boot on a USB so can try that if that's of use
<timothymillar> what made you stick around?
<zequence> usb issue?
<timothymillar> on the other IRC you mentioned for me to get it booting from a USB stick as a start
<timothymillar> I know I should get the distro up and running, I've got a couple laptops to toy around with so that will be the immediate goal
<zequence> Oh, I'm probably forgetting. Maybe it was a while ago?
<timothymillar> i just need some guidance as to once it's going how can I be of use to the project
<zequence> You're mostly into audio, right?
<timothymillar> yup
<timothymillar> also transcription software
<timothymillar> midi stuff and whatever else
<zequence> One thing that would help is for someone to take control of the audio workflow bit, and do an inventory of all the audio apps available, and see if we should add something
<timothymillar> ok
<timothymillar> I can give it a whirl
<zequence> But, there's no hurry with that right now, though
<zequence> Next month, we're releasing Raring. Right now, it's frozen, so no more changes
<timothymillar> ok should i instal 12.10 as my reference copy?
<zequence> Actually, right now, we're just doing testing on it
<zequence> It would actually be helpful if you could install 13.04. 
<timothymillar> ok where can I find that?
<zequence> One thing we are testing right now is doing an upgrade from 12.10 to 13.04
<timothymillar> ok
<timothymillar> I'll give that a go
<timothymillar> give me a bit to get my USB stick going and I'll try to liveboot 12.10
<zequence> So, what you need is an install of 12.10 on your computer. Then, you do a upgrade to 13.04. There are two ways. One is using the 13.04 DVD, another is upgrading from 12.10 using a script
<zequence> We'll need to test both
<zequence> We'd like to see if there are any problems involved.
<zequence> Might be a good idea to mess a bit with user settings before upgrading.
<zequence> Haven't really thought much further on exactly what yet
<zequence> timothymillar: Once we get closer to the release of 13.04, we'll start planning for the next release. If you're on board from there on, you'll be able to catch up with everything we do over the next 6 months
<zequence> It might be smart to select a few areas of interest, and not cause yourself too much of a workflow
<zequence> workload*
<zequence> If you'd like an overview, you're free to look around our wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio. It's a bit messy - I'm working pretty hard on making it a good resource for contributors
<zequence> I'm just happy if you take interest in one or two things, and find a few hours now and then to work on them. There's no pressure at all, just so you know
<zequence> Some of us may be a bit more possessed, but that may not be totally healthy
<timothymillar> ok I guess step one is to get a working copy of 12.10 booting on a computer. so I'll get working on that and see where I can fit in
<timothymillar> thanks for the guidance and I'll keep at it and find what's needed
<timothymillar> that's my starting place and I'll pick away a few things to see where I can be of use
<timothymillar> I'll be back in a bit
<zequence> timothymillar: If you're here tomorrow, I can explain a bit further. But, in short: you'll at least need a launchpad account, and if you're going to do any kind of testing or development, you'll need to have a machine for that.
<zequence> So, if you want to prepare, I'd say those are the two things you could worry about for now
<timothymillar> gotcha
<len-dt> zequence, just saw this in pulseaudio-discuss: "The target release date for 4.0 is 2013-04-18"
<len-dt> I guess testing pulse 4.0 will be a good start to R+1.
<ttoine> Stephane Letz interview, proof read by himself
<ttoine> fresh !
<ttoine> in french only at the moment
<ttoine> http://lite.framapad.org/p/5n3kYagDQA
<ttoine> zequence, http://lite.framapad.org/p/5n3kYagDQA
<zequence> len-dt: Nice seeing some interest on improving the jackdbus-detect module on PA mail list
<len-dt> Ya
<len-dt> I would still like to see a bit more decoupling from jack to PA.
<len-dt> low latency for PA is 30-5ms for jack <10ms.
<len-dt> Slide show has yet to be released, lots of updates on it though.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-21
<Lump|AFK> heyas
<Lump|AFK> len got your email but have not had a hot minute to look it over
<Len-nb> Lump|AFK, no problem
<Lump|AFK> i did have enough time to install the beta on my Eee 1000
<Lump|AFK> got the error reporting on for yas
<Len-nb> I've been waiting for the new slideshow to be released
<Len-nb> Be nice if Catfish made it too.
<Lump|AFK> and i am also getting even a tad braver on the Eee
<Len-nb> I finally upgraded my server to precise.
<Lump|AFK> going to get with my nick soon and see if I can get Chrome OS installed on it as well
<Len-nb> have fun... 
<Len-nb> I need to make some bread dough for tomorrow.
<Lump|AFK> sounds yummy
<Len-nb> Should be
<micahg> I'll try to get to catfish soon
<Lump|AFK> what is catfish?
<Lump|AFK> and do any of you, by chance, have any clues on how to get chrome OS to run from the hd on an Eee 1000
<Lump|AFK> nvm on catfish
<len-dt> Thank you micahg 
<len-dt> Lump|AFK, tbh I have not played with chrome OS on any machine.
<Len-nb> zequence, just reading about the opus streaming format (silk/celt). It fits in an OGG file format but is quite different. The ogg vorbis codec has the same sample rate in and  out. opus does not. Internally opus may change the sample rate from frame to frame, so sample rate at the output end is not set.
<Len-nb> The recommendation for codec output rate is: "If the hardware supports 48 kHz playback, decode at 48 kHz, else if the hardware's highest available sample rate is a supported rate, decode at this sample rate,  else if the hardware's highest available sample rate is less than 48 kHz, decode at the next higher supported rate and resample, else decode at 48 kHz and resample. 
<Len-nb> The supported rates are: 8, 12, 16, 24, or 48 kHz.
<Len-nb> Hmm, no 44.1 or 32
<Lump|AFK> that is an interesting way to deal with latency len
<Lump|AFK> similar to how vbr dealt with file size
<Lump|AFK> but if it is internally changing the sample rate, more or less, it is only using the cycles it needs
<zequence> Len-nb: Can't say I know much about how sample rate is managed in codecs and such
<Len-nb> zequence, our slideshow should be in todays iso
<Lump|AFK> heyas
<Lump|AFK> zequence: in the "old days" the logic was to reduce the file size
<Lump|AFK> VBR with lame encoding did so by only using the bit rate it needed to in order to keep the file size smaller
<Lump|AFK> from what i get from len's comments is that this voip program is, more or less, using the same logic to conserve on CPU cycles
<len-dt> Lump|AFK, Actually this is different. there is a difference between bitrate and sample rate. In an MP3 or vorbis stream, the bitrate can change from frame to frame, but the decodes output is sample for sample of the input of the chain. opus is not. It expects 48K in (can use other sample rates too) but then encodes in a varying sample rate depending on what the highest frequency of the incoming signal is at any one time.
<len-dt> And what the expected average or top bitrate is. The expected bitrate can change on the fly as well, to take into account changing transport bandwidth.
<len-dt> What is amazing is the quality of sound/bitrate. Especially at lower bitrates, opus is way better than vorbis or MP3.
<len-dt> Where a vorbis/mp3 stream can have as much as 3 to 5 sec of latency from raw signal in to raw out, opus is less than 50ms and can be as low as 2.5ms at high bitrates.
<Lump|AFK> nice
<len-dt> I think opus is the next thing for voip as well as remote broadcast contribution.
<Lump|AFK> and yeah, i get the difference just missed it earlier
<Lump|AFK> i am hereish at best
<Lump|AFK> personal life this week has been living hell
<len-dt> Waiting for my bread to proof.
<Lump|AFK> my xgf attacked me on monday and i spent half the week in jail
<Lump|AFK> trying to move her and her son's stuff out and she is being a real difficult person about it
<len-dt> Thats the way it goes. I came close with an Xwife years ago.
<Lump|AFK> well, it is what it is and she needs to deal with her issues
<Lump|AFK> if she continues to stay with me all i am is an enabler
<len-dt> I had custody of my son for 6 hours, then I became a child molester
<Lump|AFK> right now i am just trying to get her possesions over to where she is at
<Lump|AFK> i called at the agreed time, texted as well and now... abolutely no response
<len-dt> The judge didn't believe it, but social services took my son "just in case"
<Lump|AFK> i know the feeling
<Lump|AFK> there were no charges in this case because I convinced the investigators that she needs some help
<Lump|AFK> but, they did take both of us to lock up
<len-dt> Glad you are out.
<Lump|AFK> but i am not going to load up a car and drive across town to leave the stuff on a pourch
<Lump|AFK> because if anything did happen to it, you know who would be blamed
<len-dt> I don't know what the laws are there, but here someone moved out has 30 days to claim their stuff, then it can be tossed.
<Lump|AFK> same here
<Lump|AFK> but i am not wanting to do that
<Lump|AFK> long story short and just being honest
<Lump|AFK> i still care about her and the kid very much
<len-dt> It is not about wanting to do sometimes.
<Lump|AFK> she has had a tough luck life and need some serious help
<Lump|AFK> i am going to make every effort to get her stuff to her
<len-dt> Ya, but not help from you.
<Lump|AFK> i don't need to toss it, i have storage space so i need not toss it
<len-dt> You are too close
<Lump|AFK> but her and the kid do need clothing and such
<Lump|AFK> i know that regarding the help len
<len-dt> So store it. She will ask if you leave it long enough
<Lump|AFK> that is why i made the tough call to put her out
<Lump|AFK> it is already packed
<Lump|AFK> the issue is that she was supposed to take a call at a set time today
<Lump|AFK> and i get a full voice mail and no reply to texts
<Lump|AFK> i am not going to load a car to go to an empty house
<Lump|AFK> so, more or less, what you said
<len-dt> Let it go. If you can store it do so.
<len-dt> Takes time for people to cool down, some more than others.
<len-dt> Its old, but time does heal.
<Lump|AFK> i had another gf who got into crack and i had to put her and her three kids out
<Lump|AFK> that was over a decade ago
<Lump|AFK> she actually reconnected with me and thanked me for saving her life recently
<Lump|AFK> hopefully, this works out the same
<len-dt> or better.
<Lump|AFK> on another note
<Lump|AFK> noticed an oddity with the beta
<Lump|AFK> when my blue tooth mouse connects, it shows two battery icons in the task bar
<len-dt> Thankyou for reminding me, the daily is out an hour ago now.
<len-dt> That is odd, I wonder if that is an xfce thing or an icon theme thing.
<Lump|AFK> do i need to manually do the daily or will it work via update?
<Lump|AFK> i don't know but one indicator says adapter is online and battery is fully charged
<len-dt> It will upgrade, but what I want to test is the slideshow during install
<Lump|AFK> and the other says adaptor is online and the battery is charging
<len-dt> That is weird
<Lump|AFK> well, if i am going to change chrome
<Lump|AFK> i need to do a reinstall anyhow
<Lump|AFK> i can not get the chrome os to boot off a partition
<Lump|AFK> so i might just use the internal 8 GB 
<Lump|AFK> but i set this netbook up rather odd
<Lump|AFK> also what min size do you recommend for both root and home
<Lump|AFK> i set my partitions up so that the home dir is the sd card
<Lump|AFK> thus, if i travel, i pull it out for safety sake
<Lump|AFK> and if, i did double check, both on 12.04 and this 13.04 build, it does the same battery thing if i connect the blue tooth mouse
<len-dt> It seems to me root (/usr /var etc.) needs close to 8, 6.5 or something. I haven't looked at it for a bit. Used to be 4.6
<Lump|AFK> well for ubuntu basic, they recomend min 8
<len-dt> The used diskspace after install depends on disksize too. It is smaller on small disks.
<Lump|AFK> i have an 8 and a 32 internal
<len-dt> Hmm, says I have 12% to download
<Lump|AFK> and a 32 sd removable
<len-dt> I use a 40G USB drive.
<Lump|AFK> where i made my error was, at first, i was going to install 12.04 and 13.04 side by side
<Lump|AFK> so i just split the drives 50/50
<len-dt> Oops.
<Lump|AFK> then i changed my mind and went only with 13.04 and was going to try chrome
<Lump|AFK> so now when i try to boot chrome, the bios just goes wtf???
<Lump|AFK> i don't think chrome is going t work unless, i have it on it's own drive
<len-dt> Boot 13.04 and redo grub.
<Lump|AFK> i don't think grub is seeing it
<Lump|AFK> how would i redo grub
<Lump|AFK> what is the cli?
<len-dt> There are two steps...
<Lump|AFK> 13.04 is booted i will give it a try
<len-dt> I don't remember off the top of my head
<Lump|AFK> no worries
<Lump|AFK> i will look it up right quick
<Lump|AFK> i have done it before but don't recall either
<Lump|AFK> lol
<Lump|AFK> if i google "redoing grub" it pulls up all kinds of burger joint articles
<len-dt> :)
<Lump|AFK> well looks like this will be a project for a bit later
<Lump|AFK> my company just arrived
<len-dt> Ok, bye now.
<ubuntu-studio> zequence, I just realized that we do not have a publishing slide in the install slideshow.
<zequence> ubuntu-studio: also the py script that explains what happens when you do the irc thing has wrong info
<ubuntu-studio> zequence, are we going to worry about these things for 13.04? or just fix for +1?
<ubuntu-studio> anyway, I am going to reboot into the new install...
<zequence> Home clean. Let's see how many days it stays that way this time
<len-1304> Jack and PA are still behaving well together
<zequence> Every time I put every piece of item where it's supposed to be, something happens, and I end up having half a bands instruments being freighted home to my place
<len-1304> :)
<zequence> Yea, jack and PA both seem to work fine. Though, something that has happened before, and still happens, is that after starting and stopping jack a few times, and using PA for a bunch of things, including playing flash, the module stops initializing
<zequence> Or, the module stops creating the sink and source, is what I mean
<len-1304> I'll have to play, I haven't seen that
<zequence> len-1304: Probably some dbus thing, something becomes mixed up at some point
<len-1304> Mish's Wall Paper is there.
<len-1304> File Manager and Terminal Emulator still come up as unselected.
<zequence> Something weird happened to a development release install, after updating. The login screen was all grabled, after the wallpapers got updated. 
<len-1304> Looked ok to me
<zequence> After updating from not using it for a months or so
<zequence> There was no wallpaper. Just garbled squares
<zequence> I usually don't put any energy on those things, as that kind of stuff usually happens during development
<len-1304> I haven't seen that, I was using 13.04 up till two days ago. Updating as I went.
<zequence> Don't think I changed the wallpaper myself
<len-1304> I needed this disk to back up my server so I could update that
<zequence> The default changed automatically. So, there was never any user settings on that
<len-1304> I ended up not using it because it was faster to backup over network at 40Mb (as fast as my 100M net seems to go)
<len-1304> That is strange
<len-1304> I had manually set my wall paper, but not lightdm
<len-1304> lightdm just did on it's own I think... unless I reinstalled after the change.
<zequence> lightdm should show whatever the user has
<len-1304> That may be it then.
<len-1304> I had set my user to the new one manually
<holstein> zequence: question.. do you have a link to all the changes that are coming?
<len-1304> Mixxx still crashes on me, we don't ship, but it gets suggested often
<zequence> holstein: Fairly small amount of changes, from our side. https://ubuntustudio.org/2013/03/ubuntu-studio-13-04-beta-1-release-notes/
<zequence> holstein: Some new apps, some polish on the menu, etc
<holstein> len-1304: graphics driver related?
<len-1304> I think so. 
<len-1304> It seems to me it worked on my netbook, except it is too big for the screen and so not much use.
<zequence> I'm just about to set up bedroom for recording guitar. Have the amp ready. Just need to isolate a bit. It's funny that a cheap Peavy can sound so good, while the Mesa Boogie I have is a lot harder to record
<len-1304> My desktop has a bigger screen
<holstein> zequence: did squshy PM you?
<zequence> holstein: No. No one can, if they aren't registered
<holstein> zequence: handy!
<holstein> i'l have to set that up
<zequence> holstein: It's a freenode thing
<holstein> zequence: he pm'd me
<holstein> zequence: is there an announce like that for the changes in main ubuntu?
<zequence> I put that on after some asshole was PMing me, who I didn't know
<holstein> i'l have to get that
<zequence> let me see if I can find it
<zequence> hmm, it's not in my irssi configs
<holstein> zequence: not a biggie.. i can look it up later
<zequence> holstein: http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
<zequence> +R (block unidentified)
<zequence> That's the one
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-22
<smartboyhw> Hello zequence 
<smartboyhw> micahg, ping
<zequence> smartboyhw: Hi. Did you do your tests yet?
<smartboyhw> zequence, for what?
<smartboyhw> Upgrades?
<smartboyhw> You know, I have been busy with tests in the last few days (1 week I think)
<zequence> smartboyhw: No, I meant school
<smartboyhw> And I will be away for 4 days till Tuesday I think)
<smartboyhw> >>>>>>>
<smartboyhw> zequence, so NO:P
<zequence> Well, good luck with them
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<smartboyhw> and here's scott-work !!!! XD
<scott-work> hi smartboyhw 
 * scott-work has been dealing with allergies this week
<smartboyhw> scott-work, what allergies?
 * smartboyhw has been dealing with dozens of tests
<scott-work> smartboyhw: texas is seeing record high pollen counts the past week, my sinuses are working overtime
<smartboyhw> Uh
<scott-work> i've been getting sinus pressure headaches, my teeth even hurt from the pressure and my ears are stuffed up and popping
 * smartboyhw thinks that Hong Kong has high air pollution always
<zequence> smartboyhw: pollen, not pollution :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, how are the test results for upgrade tests?
<smartboyhw> zequence, that proves that every place has problems with air. scott-work got pollens, I got particles from factories in China
<zequence> smartboyhw: I haven't started doing any yet. I will need a special machine for it
<zequence> Haven't seen anyone doing any tests yet, but there's no particular hurry
<scott-work> zequence: i saw your email (i'm working through a backlog of email now) and i should respond today
<smartboyhw> scott-work, and condemn me:)
<scott-work> smartboyhw: why would i condemn you?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, look at one of the e-mails sent yesterday and you would understand.....
<smartboyhw> And you will probably kill me:(
<scott-work> heheh, i see what you mean ;)
<scott-work> no i think that is a fair concern, i actually have been discussing this with zequence for a bit
<smartboyhw> scott-work, ;)
<scott-work> i have realized that i am being less and less involved, and this was one of my biggest criticisms of the previous leads and something i am sensitive towards
<scott-work> i've been getting into some programming at work which is taking more time from my schedule
<scott-work> and it looks like i should be starting a program for a bachelors degree for IT with software emphasis which will take even more time
<smartboyhw> scott-work, good. I do want to get to MIT  or Harvald or Cal Tech for university :P
<smartboyhw> zequence, when was our @ubuntustudio.org RT request filed?
<zequence> smartboyhw: A long time ago. We haven't got any answer on that yet
<zequence> Also, no answer on updating our website
<smartboyhw> Hmm....
<zequence> I think it was in December I made those requests
<smartboyhw> Maybe they were too busy with the Forums upgrade
<zequence> Usually it doesn't take this long
 * smartboyhw agrees
<smartboyhw> Well we can't go and chase the Canonical IS can we?
<zequence> Who could we poke on IRC about this?
<smartboyhw> zequence, can we poke at #canonical-sysadmin ?
<zequence> did that, so let's see if someone can enlighten us on this
<zequence> So, we'll just have to wait for a little while longer
<ttoine> scott-work, what's up ?
<scott-work> hi ttoine, just doing some lisp programming right now
<ttoine> wow
<ttoine> you will enjoy to know that Stephane LETZ is a good lisp programmer too ;-)
<ttoine> it is only in french at the moment
<ttoine> scott-work, http://lite.framapad.org/p/5n3kYagDQA
<scott-work> ttoine: i'm a hacker, i can make stuff happen, but it isn't pretty or good ;)
<ttoine> scott-work, and I own a licence for Ubuntu Studio stuff, it is done
<scott-work> ttoine: WOW!  that is amazing and exciting news
<ttoine> so now, I have to find a worldwide delivery website for creating t-shirt, caps, mugs, ...
<scott-work> now we just need to develop some ideas for shirts, etc
<ttoine> scott-work, sure
<ttoine> but we can start with something simple
<scott-work> "get your music on" :P
<ttoine> scott-work, http://society6.com/
<ttoine> you provide the artwork, they do the job
<ttoine> from iphone c ases to posters
<len-1304> Probably talk to the xubuntu people they are on round two of ordering stickers/t-shirts
<len-1304> They know the pitfalls
<ttoine> len-1304, I don't want us to order something
<ttoine> who pay ???
<ttoine> look at the society6 website
<len-1304> Yes but they know which ones do a bad job :)
<ttoine> len-1304, I actually now a french artist using this site
<ttoine> and it is good quality
<len-1304> They have a web page somewhere that you can take their logos and get your own stuff printed. I think they have recomendations.
<ttoine> the only bad thing: they don't do mugs at the moment
<len-1304> Ah, that is good then.
<smartboyhw> ttoine, you do know how to sell things:)
<len-1304> Any of the larger malls have kiosks that make mugs from artwork.
<len-1304> (At least in north america)
<len-1304> Not in this small city though.
<zequence> If we were doing this only to get each of us a Ubuntu Studio cup, I'd be all for it. Would be pretty awesome drinking coffee from it
<len-1304> A small COF to cover the MS flag would be nice...
<zequence> Yeah, stickers are really great to have
<zequence> I got a few from the last UDS. Got this old laptop, that is now Ubuntu only
<smartboyhw> zequence, LOL:)
<zequence> for the flag, but also for branding
<zequence> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=718
<len-1304> I like the idea of a mixed sheet
<zequence> Maybe we could just use the same format that Ubuntu uses
<zequence> We seriously need an art team for this stuff
<len-1304> That was my first thought
<smartboyhw> And we seriously need art contributors
<smartboyhw> Sadly my art is basically crap
<zequence> Even if we know what material to use, it takes a bit of effort to achieve the right ratios, and quality
<zequence> I'd rather we had a unified style for logos and icons first, that we'd then use on websites, social sites, our ISO and these stickers
<zequence> Maybe something to be planned for 14.04?
<zequence> Get at least one guy to work on this
<zequence> Kubuntu has their stuff in that store, btw
<zequence> Wonder if they'd sponsor me with some cycling clothes. I will be participating in some events during summer http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=783
<ttoine> smartboyhw, I have a master in marketing...
<ttoine> zequence, society6 is not the best place for our stuff, since it for artists
<ttoine> but I am sure we can find a place like that for Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> ttoine: I think the Canonical store would be a good start
<ttoine> zequence, perhaps
<zequence> And our website
<ttoine> I would say that have a link in our website to a place like society 6 would be grear
<ttoine> great
<ttoine> I don't have the time to manage orders, expeditions, etc. it costs a lot of time
<ttoine> and I would prefer to find a place where they could do a per order production
<zequence> So, Canonical store?
<ttoine> it why places like society6 are very interessant
<zequence> I don't know how the Canonical store works, but I would think it's managed by Canonical
<ttoine> zequence, not possible... who will pay the 1000 stickers order ?
<ttoine> If I get a licence for that, it may be because they are not interested to do that for ur
<ttoine> us
<zequence> Has anyone asked them?
<zequence> What are the options in getting funds?
<zequence> I don't know what the legal side of this is at all
<zequence> We are very small, so probably to get anything started, we'll either need coorporate sponsoship or we pay ourselves
<zequence> That's my guess anyway
<len-1304> That is what xubuntu did
<zequence> payed themselves?
<len-1304> (paid themselves)
<zequence> paid*
 * len-1304 has been watching their channel
<len-1304> SOme of the discussion will be in the irc logs
<smartboyhw> ttoine, XD
<smartboyhw> Should I ask some Kubuntu guys to come here?:P
<ttoine> zequence, I asked them in the past. ubuntu store is for ubuntu
<zequence> ttoine: And Kubuntu, apparently
<ttoine> zequence, and with the licence, I don't have the right to make benefits
<zequence> ttoine: What does the license really mean?
<ttoine> zequence, it will disapear soon, I guess, for Kubuntu is not anymore an official distro, and is now founded by a german rich guy
<ttoine> zequence, it means that we have the right to sell branded goods to enthusiast, without benefitsd
<ttoine> just to serve the communication of our community
<smartboyhw> ttoine, true
<zequence> ttoine: What does benefits mean?
<smartboyhw> zequence, nah Canonical *dumped* Kubuntu (that's how the Kubuntu guys think now)
<ttoine> smartboyhw, ;-)
<ttoine> I can't run a business with my licence
<smartboyhw> ttoine, oh
<ttoine> it non profit only
<ttoine> it is
<zequence> ttoine: Ok, so what it means you can start a non-profit organization that sells items with the Ubuntu Studio brand
<len-1304> That is best anyway.
<zequence> Where the non-profit organization is what holds the funds, etc
<zequence> ttoine: Or, the license is to you, specifically?
<ttoine> zequence, as Ubuntu Studio is not a company nor a non profit organisation, and as a member of Ubuntu Studio devel and team
<ttoine> yes, I had to put my name on it
<len-1304> Makes sense
<ttoine> but it can be changed if in time we create a kind of foudnation
<ttoine> or ong
<zequence> Maybe that's a good idea to do?
<ttoine> zequence, sure
<ttoine> I can do that in France
<zequence> Sounds good to me
<ttoine> we call that a non profit association
<len-1304> ong , at least here requires a minimum number of people and meetings. I am not sure they can be virtual meetings either.
<zequence> bah, old rules :P
<zequence> Yeah, let's start buying air planes tickets, so we can meet face to face every so often :)
<len-1304> They are there to keep it from being abused
<zequence> I guess that depends on what privileges the organization gets
<len-1304> I think the books get looked at every year by the tax dep as well.
<zequence> Yeah
<len-1304> I would suggest that because our idea is not to make money, it only needs to be done in one country
<len-1304> It is only there for holding artwork really.
<zequence> If we can share responsibilities as far as the organization goes, that would be good. But, if ttoine is the only person to handle this, I think it will also be up to him to decide
<len-1304> Yup.
<zequence> Also, I don't speak French, and if I have to work with French text, even with Google translate, that might be a bit difficult
<smartboyhw> Especially when it's sort of legal matters:)
<smartboyhw> zequence, do we want ardour3 to be synced into the Ubuntu repos
<smartboyhw> ?
<ttoine> hop, here again
<smartboyhw> Hey ttoine 
<ttoine> sorry, I had am in a meeting, I had to restart my laptop with one screen only
<smartboyhw> Oh
<smartboyhw> You did see what we are talking about right?
<ttoine> the amd driver is not friendly with suspend wake up and screens change
<ttoine> no
<ttoine> sorry
<smartboyhw> ttoine, I will just post the sentences after you last speak before you left
<smartboyhw> ttoine, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5637281/
<ttoine> thanks, smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> I think you wouldn't have missed it
<ttoine> ok
<ttoine> so actually, it may just be french text for what we call statuses
<ttoine> basic accounting can be done on a shared google doc tab
<ttoine> and of course, we can speak french and members of the ong board can be global
<ttoine> so if you want me to create a kind of french ong so I can manage that, it is ok
<ttoine> however
<ttoine> think that I won't have time and money to pre order stuff we want to sell. and global delivery is a true job
<ttoine> so please have in mind that we have to find an operator for that
<ttoine> some website like society6, where we provide the artwork and they produce, sell and deliver
<ttoine> otherwise it will be impossible to handle that
<smartboyhw> For such complicated matters, I'm out of this money business:P
<ttoine> I know well the people of framasoft.org and ubuntu-fr.org
<ttoine> they have a website to sell stuff, look for http://enventelibre.org/
<ttoine> they don't make a lot of turnaround. more, they spend so much time with that, they are considering to close it and find another solutioon
<ttoine> and only deliver in france
<ttoine> smartboyhw, you are not out ;-)
<ttoine> we have a licence to sell branded stuff without profit
<zequence> smartboyhw: If you want to sync Ardour3, I don't think anyone will object :)
<ttoine> zequence, of course
<len-1304> smartboyhw, of course we want A# packaged. The real question is do we want to keep an a2 package around?
<len-1304> a3
<zequence> len-1304: Debian Multimedia Team is going to do that
<zequence> Have both
<ttoine> zequence, smartboyhw, it will take me some time to organise that and find a webservice. but we can already start the artwork design
<zequence> Since apparently, A3 can't open A2 projects
<ttoine> and it doesn't have to be complicated
<zequence> ttoine: The important thing about artwork IMO is that we have a unified style
<ttoine> zequence, no, A2 can't open A3
<len-1304> Is ardour going to keep updating a2 for a while?
<zequence> And that means, the artwork needs to be done first
<zequence> ttoine: Someone said A3 can't open A2 projects
<len-1304> I thought A3 could import A2 projects.
<ttoine> if you import an A2 session in A3, A3 will create a session fdor A2
<ttoine> an archive
<len-1304> Can't open
<ttoine> zequence, look at the official release post on their blog
<ttoine> but the modification done in A3 will not be saved back for the A2. it is only an archive.
<zequence> Debian has just prepared an intial working package
<len-1304> I think as long as A3 can save an A2 project as A3 that would be fine for most people
<zequence> Someone would need to make sure it's syncable even, before anything
<len-1304> those who are in the middle of an A2 project, may wish to be able to finish there though.
<ttoine> len-1304, this is not the case
<ttoine> A3 can not save in A2
<ttoine> it can import it, and doing so, it just create an archive of the A2. that's all
<ttoine> I get that from the ardour website
<zequence> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-multimedia-maintainers/2013-March/031748.html
<zequence> I guess that was wrong then
<zequence> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-multimedia-maintainers/2013-March/031762.html
<zequence> This late in the game, syncing A3 might not be the best idea, but I'm not going to stop anyone from trying
<len-1304> A3 can not import an A2 project and save it as A3? Then why have it import at all?
<len-1304> zequence, I don't expect A3 in 13.04
<ttoine> len-1304, follow what i am saying
<len-1304> And it sounds like the normal replace ver2 with ver3 method is not a "good idea" anyway.
<len-1304> ttoine, Ya I tried, but it doesn't make sense to me.
<ttoine> you can import an A2 in A3. doing so, A3 will save the A2 version of the session. Once you started to work with A3, it will not possible to work on it with A2. the only thing you can have in A2 is the save
<zequence> len-1304: Well, it won't appear in 13.04 automatically, since Debian import freeze was a long time ago
<len-1304> ttoine, so the project in A2 would become an A3 project.
<ttoine> len-1304, sure. I think that there is an issue with pan of tracks, but i am not sure where I read that
<ttoine> I am pretty sure too that Harrison will soon release an A3 based Mixbus version
<smartboyhw> zequence, len-1304 as it turns out I can't sync yet it stil hasn't been uploaded to Debian (prepared already)
<len-1304> Like everything, buy a new hard drive for the new version. Then I will have 11.04, 12.04 and 14.04
<len-1304> smartboyhw, I think we need to keep A2 alive
<len-1304> ttoine, yes there is work on making a harrison mixbus3
<smartboyhw> len-1304, hmm i think ardour3 will be a seperate package from ardour
<smartboyhw> I don't know
<len-1304> So not sync, but package then
<len-1304> sync means replace with
<smartboyhw> len-1304, ?
<zequence> sync means import from Debian
<smartboyhw> Well we can sync new packages
<zequence> sync our with Debian
<smartboyhw> From Debian
<len-1304> sync means get the latest version
<zequence> sync means syncing with Debian
 * smartboyhw wonders if we have to start a debate on "How to define 'sync'"
<len-1304> If they are named differently we should be ok then
 * len-1304 was never very good with debate
<ttoine> len-1304, I know, I asked them ;-)
<ttoine> smartboyhw, it is possible to install both ardour 2 and 3 on the same computer
<smartboyhw> len-1304, I am good at debate:)
<smartboyhw> ttoine, yep
<len-1304> Yes, I have had as many as three versions of Ardour at once.
<len-1304> As long as they keep their binaries in separate directories or at least uniquely named. I think the config has to be in different directories too.
<ttoine> len-1304, it is scheduled this way in the release note
<len-1304> The downloads from ardour.org each use a separate directory under /opt
<ttoine> need to restart, again a problem with amd driver when pluging my second screen
<zequence> It all depends on the packaging, really
<zequence> Well, configs may need to be hardcoded
<zequence> ..for the application, as it is expecting to find them in certain places or with certain names
<len-1304> Yup
<len-1304> TCL keeps separate directories in /usr/lib last I looked. so it would be the same kind of thing.
<zequence> Just spent half a day trying to get back a guitar sound I got a few days ago
<len-1304> Always take notes...
<zequence> Well, not the guitar sound itself, but mic placement
 * len-1304 still hasn't learned this yet
<zequence> When I started recording a few days ago, I didn't have a good mic stand, so I just put the mic somewhere close to the speaker. Not centered at all. A bit above, pointing towards the middle. It's a condenser mic
<zequence> Then, when I was going to do it properly, with better placement, it just sounded crap
<ttoine> hop
<zequence> Now I'm back where I started. Sounds good now, but I want to isolate the are a bit. Getting my picking sound into the mic
<zequence> Don't want to sit in another room
<zequence> Think I learned something new about mic placement with condensers today
<zequence> It just sounds so different - which is not what I'm used to
<zequence> a bit of phase distortion too, makes wonders to this particular sound
<Len-nb> the software updater seems more flaky these days... The icon shows in systray, I click on show updates sometimes it never shows up sometimes just the window decoration.
<Len-nb> Xubuntu has about 250 updates since yesterday
<ttoine> len-1304, I had problem like that in unity
<ttoine> it is fixed, since
<len-1304> I think the software updater in general needs to provide more user feed back. Even when it works, I click on it and it takes much longer than usual before anything happens. Often there is not even some disk activity.
<len-1304> I would guess it is checking network connections for all ppas apt is aware of.
<len-1304> I have been using apt-get a lot more these days.
<ttoine> goog week-end to all
<len-1304> Speaking of sync of packages. mudita24 version 1.1.0 fixes the issues zequence and I found earlier.
<len-1304> The one we ship says 1.0.4 in the about and synaptic says latest installed is 1.0.3 (mudita still)
<len-1304> Ok, no syncrequest because debian does not yet have mudita24 anyway.
<len-1304> zequence, how do we go about requesting an update to a new package in debian?
<len-1304> Version 1.1.0 cam out a month ago BTW
<len-1304> Oops longer, Feb 2.
<zequence> len-1304: Because of the Debian freeze, which has been going on for many months now (they won't release until all serious bugs have been fixed, and it will probably take a couple of more months), may be that packages aren't being updated as frequently
<zequence> len-1304: Also, there may be low activity on some packages, depending on who maintains it, etc
<len-1304> Well we won't need it before 13.04 anyway.
<len-1304> But it should be in 14.04
<len-1304> They look like they have about 4 sets of repos. Is there one not frozen?
<zequence> I'm not 100% sure about how those work, but stable is of course stable, which is squeeze
<zequence> testing is the development release
<zequence> Which is wheezy
<len-1304> Then there is unstable and testing
<zequence> sid is unstable
<len-1304> mudita24 is only in sid and wheezy, same version.
<zequence> Then there's also experimental, but you can only install packages from there, if you expressively use an option to do that with apt-get
<len-1304> maybe that was the other one.
<zequence> experimental is not a release, while the others are
<zequence> sid will never change. It will always be called sid
<len-1304> Ok, that makes sense
<zequence> testing is the next release, and stable is the current release
<len-1304> I am still not sure what that means so far as getting the newer version of mudita24 or other SW available for our use once 13.04 is out, zequence .
<len-1304> Ie, does that mean things should start moving soon enough not top be a problem?
<zequence> len-1304: Don't know.
<len-1304> OK
<len-1304> zequence, new email about ... email addresses. His solution sounds just fine to me.
<len-1304> In fact I think that looks to me what was meant
<zequence> len-1304: Cool. Let's see..
<zequence> Well, it'll mean we need to poke them each time we want to change an adress, but I think that few of us will actually have a use of it anyway
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-03-24
<combinatoric> I'm up and running ubuntustudio and would like to participate in some development
<combinatoric> let me know something I can start with
<zequence> combinatoric: Right now we're preparing for release, which is in about a month, and we're just testing the beta. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/13.04/beta-1/
<zequence> combinatoric: Get yourself a launchpad account, if you haven't https://launchpad.net/
<zequence> combinatoric: What we want to test specifically right now is doing upgrades from 12.10 to 13.04
<combinatoric> ok gotcha
<combinatoric> I just got 12.04 installed I'm downloading 12.10 now and going to reinstall
<zequence> There are two ways. Either by using the installer DVD - it should appear as one of the install options (keep home, just update release), or you use the script do-release-upgrade from 12.10
<combinatoric> ok what about upgrading from 12.04 to 12.10
<zequence> You can do that too, if you want to
<zequence> sudo do-release-upgrade
<combinatoric> ok I will try
<zequence> subscribe to our -devel mail list, if you haven't 
<zequence> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-Studio-devel
<combinatoric> already have
<zequence> combinatoric: About testing upgrades https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2013-March/004982.html
<zequence> In short, it would be nice if your install is as clean as possible (no other desktop systems side by side, etc)
<zequence> And that you've made some user setting changes. Changes in the panels, menu, things like that
<zequence> We want to see if an upgrade from Ubuntu Studio -> Ubuntu Studio works ok or not, and if that is something we should recommend for people to do
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-17
<zequence> Just tested the ubuntustudio-live plugin. It's not working 100%. Our meta is not updated either, so that may cause some problems too
<zequence> I just realized that we don't seem to have any application to change monitors, resolution, etc (or the icon is not showing)
<knome> settings manager -> desktop ?
<knome> err, displays
<zequence> knome: It's there :). I was using VirtualBox, and the resolution was so low, I didn't realize I didn't see the full selection of options
<knome> ;)
<zequence> OvenWerk1: If you have time, confirm these bugs (or anyone else, for that matter)
<zequence> bug 1293511
<ubottu> bug 1293511 in ubuntustudio-meta "ubuntustudio-recording and ubuntustudio-generation are obsolete depends" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1293511
<zequence> bug 1292550
<ubottu> bug 1292550 in ubuntustudio-look (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Studio wallpapers are only selectable in XFCE" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292550
<zequence> Nick__: There are a couple of things. Work on the colors a bit. Make the grey text less grey. Perhaps change the color of the side bar too
<Nick__> I'm working at my real job today too, so I might be unresponsive for periods of time
<zequence> And additionally, if you have ideas on how to imporove it, that would be fine too
<Nick__> Yeah.  I was looking at it, and had some ideas for the sidebar.
<Nick__> To improve, I say let's go to Joomla
<Nick__> lol, it's a big change, so maybe let's dont
<zequence> Yeah, it would offer more possibilities for sure
<Nick__> I just went through a huge server migration as well, so I lost the wordpress theme.  I was thinking, we could make a similar style but make it with bootstrap, some animations and stuff, and in Joomla
<Nick__> That would be more of a long term thing though, in my spare time, maybe a few hours a week until it's done.  So we can definitely just patch the current one up for now, and look at Joomla afterwards
<zequence> Sure
<Nick__> I will need the wordpress theme again, though.
<knome> it's in launchpad
<Nick__> Ok good stuff
<Nick__> what would the search term be?
<knome> let me dig it up for you
<zequence> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-website
<Nick__> k I'm looking too.
<Nick__> Ok thanks
<knome> yeah... i was just coming to that :)
<knome> since you propose a switch to joomla, can you argument as to why?
<zequence> I rearranged some our lp projects a while back, to make the bzr branches easier to find (lp:ubuntustudio-website)
<Nick__> Ok, I;ll have to download it when I get on my ubuntu installation later.
<zequence> As Nick__ said, I don't think that is our first priority.
<zequence> And, we certainly need to discuss any big changes
<Nick__> My basic proposal of Joomla is simple: it's easier.  Point blank.  It's more powerful in a lot of ways as well.  
<knome> i'm following the discussion... just asking why ;)
<knome> professionally speaking, i couldn't agree less :D
<knome> i've had several clients running both joomla and wordpress sites, and they are at loss with joomla
<knome> i'm sure it makes sense if that's what you are accustomed with
<Nick__> I would like to see the site be bootstrapped (that's how I usually make websites).  40% or something like that is on mobile devices now, and the current site doesn't fare too well on mobile devices.  So by rewriting a new site, making it responsive, why not do it the best and easiest way?
<zequence> I think that very much depends on who is managing it, of course
<knome> zequence, of course, but content management is for the user
<knome> Nick__, easiest way is to switcht the CMS instead of modifying the theme?
<Nick__> I find Wordpress can be very convoluted
<Nick__> Knome, yes.  lol.  It takes a few hours to build a site.  Easy enough, and it would also provide more professional plugins and whatnot, if that is an appeal
<Nick__> Just from what I've seen
<knome> i still can't disagree less...
<knome> there are surely bad plugins for wordpress
<knome> but also for joomla
<Nick__> Yes, but Joomla has some pretty great exclusive plugins as well
<Nick__> I mean, it's an idea, personally I think it would be better, especially how things seem easier as far as adding content to it, adding plugins and stuff.
<Nick__> If the idea doesn't fly, that's ok too.  Whatevers best for the team
<knome> what plugins need to be added?
<knome> i'm not against the change, feel free to do anything you think is the best
<Nick__> I don't think any need to be added
<Nick__> I mean down the road, let's say you wanna have some sort of something or something added to one page.  Joomla makes it easy, I find.
<Nick__> I personally would use something like Smart Slider for the main slider area, and show screenshots as well.  When people first hit the site, the top of the first page is the first thing they see.  I think it would be great to offer a more inside look on the front page.
<knome> inside look?
<knome> isn't that a content, not a technical issue?
<Nick__> Instead of having the blogroll on the home page, I personally think it should be its own "news" page or something.  And on the home page, have a small section with the 5 most recent or something, and then in the main section on the home page, have more information on what it is and how it operates.  Not a long speel or anything, just a few small sections with neat graphics and a few sentences
<Nick__> Well, yes, you're right.
<Nick__> Except for, the slider would be a technical thing.
<knome> any reason why the current slider isn't fit for the purpose?
<Nick__> A layered slider, with text, buttons, images, and a background.  I mean you could do it now, in the current slider, but it would have to be done manually
<knome> i don't understand the difference
<knome> how would another slider do it less manually?
<Nick__> Because with the current one you'd have to go in and code the entire thing.  So, have an unordered list, and in each li, have a bunch of code for each layer, and then the CSS for each layer.  In Joomlas Smart Slider, you just point and click it into existence.  Just thinking of the simplicity for the ones who manage the content
<Nick__> I mean, there may be better sliders in wordpress
<knome> have you seen the administrator interface for the current slider?
<Nick__> I don't know what the current slider is, lol.
<Nick__> I thought it was a basic one, I could be wrong
<Nick__> I gotta run for a bit tho
<knome> it's a very basic one
<knome> but it can be pretty hard to judge what's easier if you haven't seen both alternatives
<knome> ok, have fun
<Nick__> true
<Nick__> ill be back
<cub> I read up on the log and I'd just like to add that I would recommend not to change from Wordpress to Joomla. I've done sites in both cms and think WP is easier and work better. Also from my work only a few companies still use joomla, most others have moved over to wordpress (or in some part to Drupal but they are now moving over to wordpress), and the ones with joomla have been struggling. So, imho, stay with wordpress and adjust 
<cub> the theme there if necessary.
<cub> sry gotta run again.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-18
<OvenWerk1> zequence I am writing from ssh from aphone(
<OvenWerk1> but those two bugs make sence
<OvenWerk1> recording and generation are supposed to ne rolled into audio
<OvenWerk1> so yes they are no lpmger valid pr used. i do not know if they woild have any effevt on an upgtade from 1204.
<OvenWerk1> these are small keys on the nexus :P
<OvenWerk1> i had aleaus tjougj the backdrop dir was not standard.
<OvenWerk1> thought*
<OvenWerk1> link or config?
<OvenWerk1> can we config mpre than one dir for default
<OvenWerk1> i will look closer when i m home
<zequence> So, it is possible to upgrade from LTS to LTS?
<elfy> I've not done it for you - but I've tested that upgrade path for us and it worked ok 
<zequence> hmm, yeah, at least there will be no releases in between after a while
<zequence> Means I can't remove those two transitional packages that we have. Ahh, need to make some changes to our plugin.
<zequence> ..ubiquity plugin
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-19
<OvenWerk1> zequence: can we use "replaces" in audio meta to get rid of the two old ones?
<OvenWerk1> The bug with qjackctl.... Last week it worked (32 bit), but I am noticing on my 13.10 machine it doesn't. I will check the 14.04 again though. I am wondering if this is an upgrade thing? Just looking at the bug original install date...
<len-test> zequence, Re back drops. The config file points to the exact file. more than once. Would it be better to have the config file point to ubuntustudio-default.png and have that be a link to whatever the current default is?
<len-test> I am not sure which is more work, to change the link or the config file. Or which would upgrade better.
<len-test> zequence, Re: the qjackctl in the systray. My fresh install of 14.04 had that systray icon working properly.
<len-test> Ok, I just upgraded my 14.04 with the latest and the systray still works with qjackctl
<len-test> A funny thing did happen though, When I logged out to log in so I could restart xfce, I ended up with two lightdm listed in panel one. (killed them)
<len-test> Back to backdrops  :P  there are two places that backdrops might be kept that are specific to xfce and a generic one. I was unable to find anywhere that the actual path to icons was stored though, so it is probably pulled from the path of the file name in use.... let me test this... but I think that if we just put our backdrop in the generic directory and have the system config point at it, we will become standard.
<len-test> zequence, To confirm, if we would put our backdrops in /usr/share/backgrounds/ and then use that in our config file
<len-test> The next problem is that KDE, for example, uses /usr/share/wallpapers/
<DalekSec> len-test: bug 1290575
<ubottu> bug 1290575 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "lightdm-gtk-greeter does not exit cleanly when logging in" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290575
<len-test> lubuntu seems to use /usr/share/lubuntu/wallpapers.
<len-test> That could very well be it yes.
<DalekSec> It is, if you can reliably reproduce it, that would be helpful. (So far no one has had luck there.)
<len-test> I added my "this affects me"
<len-test> I will try one more time, but I have to go, if it happens a second time that would be great (I guess).
<knome> zequence, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/+merge/211502
<knome> zequence, is that all you want in the slideshow, or still some changes coming?
<len-test> DalekSec, No joy with getting consistent lightdm troubles. Though it does seem to happen more often if I make use of one of the VTs in the login screen (c-a-F1).
<len-test> The most I got was two in one boot, but not twice in a row.
<len-test> zequence, new kernel today, jack initially seemed more stable, but I am getting popups telling me I am getting KernelOops. When those happen I get xruns
<len-test> No surprise I guess
<len-test> I tried looking through the log files (syslog and kern.log) but found nothing.
<len-test> I am seeing more xruns again, but they seem to be at intervals.
<len-test> Many of them seem related to pulse.
<len-test> Part of that may be that the audio devices switched numbers... to normal and so pulse reactivated the one I had turned off.
<len-test> Launchpad coughed on taking the bug report with a time out.
<zequence> len-test: If you find a kernel bug, please report it
<zequence> Ah
<len-test> I will try another boot.
<zequence> knome: I'm ready with all changes, yep
<zequence> len-test: I'll look at the "replaces" option. Would be nice to get rid of those two metas.
<zequence> len-test: which bug with qjackctl?
<zequence> len-test: about the wallpapers, I've put the actual wallpapers in /usr/share/backgrounds/ubuntustudio, and symlinks to /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops
<len-test> I am not sure at this point, it came in my email while I was away and reading tiny print on the phone
<zequence> You can get lp:ubuntustudio-look to see it
<len-test> Oops kernel problem showed again... another try for bug report...
<len-test> jack has been stable for a while now
<len-test> Untill I said that of course :)
<zequence> I once had a problem BECAUSE of rtirq
<zequence> Never happened again
<len-test> But that may be the bug reporter thing. It is much more stable than the old kernel.
<len-test> Bug #1294729 
<ubottu> bug 1294729 in linux (Ubuntu) "BUG: pcmC1D0c:0, pos = 5461, buffer size = 5461, period size = 2730" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294729
<len-test> The bug dialog has come up 4 times since boot. I am having trouble thinking of this one as usable.
<len-test> Latency is better for sure, though still not as good as in the past, but I have not even tried tweaking at all.
<len-test> zequence, I think the xruns may have been more to do with the kernel oops data logging/bug tracking. I am running jack on the edge of what it would normally do with hyperthreading turned on.
<len-test> Turning hyperthreading off allows me to set -p 16.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-20
<knome> zequence, i have merged your changes to main, should have a new release shortly
<zequence> knome: You mean, the slide show?
<knome> zequence, yep, that
<zequence> knome: Thanks
<OvenWerk1> zequence: redoing the installer from scratch. I found that the basic python gui (package python-tk, AKA tkinter) is supposed to be a part of a basic install. (kde doesn't of course) It seems more than one of our packages requires it anyway. I was going to rewrite in python using that for the gui, but it pulls in tcl/tk anyway... which I happen to know well.
<OvenWerk1> So I am doing it that way as a next step. The gui is much more flexable than zenity and it seems KDE doesn't ship that anyway.
<OvenWerk1> Anyway, first I will do tcl/tk, then work on porting to python-tk and finally port from there to python-qt as qt seems to be emerging as the most cross DE/platform and if not certainly many of our apps use it so the user will be installing it anyway.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: The plugin in lp:ubuntustudio-live has a nice way of selecting packages
<zequence> OvenWerk1: You should look it up. You toggle packages from our metas.
<zequence> In a tree structure
<OvenWerk1> Can it be run from an already installed other DE system?
<zequence> Would be a nice addition
<zequence> It's python code, so you can put it in any python app
<zequence> Take out the important bits only, of course
<OvenWerk1> which gui did you use?
<zequence> The plugin uses the ubiquity gui, with a GTK part
<zequence> it doesn't have a standalone gui
<zequence> the interesting part of it is the tree-view function and selecting packages from our metas that way
<OvenWerk1> "it" meaning python?
<OvenWerk1> I am looking at an installer for adding studio/media creation SW to other DEs. While many of our apps do use gtk, it is kind of a lot to load just for an installer. KDE doesn't come with gtk libs by default and lxde is heading away from them too.
<OvenWerk1> unity and touch is becomeing more QT oriented as well.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: it meaning the plugin
<OvenWerk1> Sounds interesting. zequence I had thought it was just for installing whole metas, but being able to pick and choose is nice. Can the user do a "select all" for any one meta as well?
<OvenWerk1> zequence: Has our settings been uploaded? It seems to me I did some changes some time ago that do not seem to be in the ISO. We should take a look through our packages and check for non-uploaded packages.
<OvenWerk1> Entangle should be in the photography menu not graphics.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: All packages that I have made changes in have bug reports and are up for FFe or UIFe review
<zequence> what changes?
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Can't see any commits of yours for since last year
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Yes, you can select the whole meta, or single packages in it
<zequence> All of the packages that need upload are in the sponsors queue
<zequence> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<OvenWerk1> zequence: let me check, I thought I had changed default-settings
<OvenWerk1> zequence: sorry, try lp:ubuntustudio-menu
<OvenWerk1> I will put in a bug report
<zequence> OvenWerk1: make sure to subscribe ubuntu-release and ubuntu-sponsors
<OvenWerk1> Bug #1295354
<ubottu> bug 1295354 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Menu item for entangle is in the wrong sub menu" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295354
<OvenWerk1> zequence: Ok, I think.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Yep. It's in the sponsors queue now
<zequence> OvenWerk1: I also linked the bug with the branch
<OvenWerk1> I knew I forgot something.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-21
<micahg> OvenWerk1: bug 1295354 needs a UIFe, not an FFe
<ubottu> bug 1295354 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Menu item for entangle is in the wrong sub menu" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295354
<micahg> if it doesn't affect studio docs and someone can ACK that in the bug, I'll upload
<OvenWerk1> micahg: zequence seems to have changed it already. Thank you.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: just looking through things and noticed you added -controls to the seeds. So I went to look at -controls to see what you have been doing with it and found the last change (not even released) is a few years old.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: the branch I see is: lp:ubuntustudio-controls and the last revision (107) is 2010.
<OvenWerk1> I had thought you were working on something new and wanted to see if you had included making sure jack was able to run RT.
<OvenWerk1> That is fixing file name and adding user to audio.
<OvenWerk1> The reason I was looking is that I have finished (in time for 14.10) and was thinking of adding this fuctionallity in the case of installing jackd2
<zequence> OvenWerk1: I'm going to do a SRU for it later
<zequence> OvenWerk1: The SRU will be a simple bugfix, enabling users to set rt privilege
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Later, once I finish the actual application, as is intended, I will backport it
<zequence> -controls has nothing in it that will help the user currently, and in the case of rt, it will just mess things up
<zequence> ..currently
<zequence> I'll also SRU it in previous releases, all the way back to the last LTS
<zequence> I had to focus on other stuff first. ubuntustudio-live was uploaded before FF, but wasn't accepted. Got delayed
<zequence> and all the artwork came in late, as well
<zequence> -controls I can fix afterwards, but this is the only chance I have to get ubuntustudio-live in
<OvenWerk1> No problem, I was just making sure there wasn't another branch. That seems reasonable to me.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: The new installer is way better. About the only thing I can think of to make it better is to add a startup splash.
<OvenWerk1> Adding remove is for another day as is dealing with metas differently. I would like to add package remove first before choosing packages from within a meta.
<OvenWerk1> ppa:len-ovenwerks/ppa is the ppa. but the package can be downloaded from https://launchpad.net/~len-ovenwerks/+archive/ppa/+packages if you want to install in a system older than 14.04
<OvenWerk1> It should work back to the last LTS or so.
<OvenWerk1> (quite likely farther, the toolkit has been around for a while)
<OvenWerk1> If someone wishes to install ubuntustudio on top of another perinstalled DE this is the way to go. It would likely work as is on a debian system too... if the metas where available.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-22
<zequence> OvenWerk1: From now on, we need to have a review system for all feature additions
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Actually, what that means is I will need to review all changes, before upload
<zequence> I'm still looking to get upload rights, and when that happens, I will need to review everything anyway
<zequence> Any changes that I make should also be reviewed by someone
<zequence> I'm adding this stuff to the wiki later
<stochastic> Hi all, it's been a little while since I was last involved but I'm thinking it'd be nice to help out again around here.  I can likely get on-board to seriously help the 14.10 release development.  What's the state of things now?
<OvenWerk1> stochastic: Always glad for help. 14.04 has ended up being more incremental than really new.
<OvenWerk1> stochastic: probably the easiest way to see where things are is to grab an image and run a live session and see what is there.
<OvenWerk1> stochastic: Our web page(s) are getting more attention too which is nice.
<stochastic> OvenWerk1, who is currently the project lead?  Scott was last time I was around.  Are weekly or monthly dev meetings happening still?
<knome> stochastic, zequence is the project lead
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-03-23
<zequence> stochastic: You're welcome. Final Beta for 14.04 is coming out next week. We're still waiting for some packages to get uploaded
<zequence> We're a bit late with those
<zequence> I'm currently organizing a schedule and documentation for 14.10 and 16.04
<zequence> stochastic: What kind of work would you be interested in doing?
<zequence> stochastic: You've been working somewhat with achieving rt privilege in different ways, correct?
<zequence> ..we need to do something about that.
<stochastic> zequence_, in the past I did a lot of packaging for apps that weren't included, testing setup, and some work with US-Controls particularly with getting the newer firewire permission stack put in place.  Right now I'm doing a bit of work writing device driver kernels for embedded systems so I'm sure that work can spill over quite easily into rt privilege work for US.
<OvenWerk1> Gahh, I missed both of them...
<OvenWerk1> zequence_: those really sound like useful things.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-03-16
<DalekSec> zequence: It seems dvdstyler's maintainer is gone, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=635516 - http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-multimedia/dvdstyler.git - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dvdstyler  and knome tells me the current version is a bit broken.
<ubottu> Debian bug 635516 in wnpp "RFP: dvdstyler -- DVD authoring and burning tool" [Wishlist,Open]
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: any idea of good replacement?
<DalekSec> OvenWerks: No, I don't actually do this type of thing.  FWIW I updated the package. :P
<OvenWerks> thats our biggest problem... we all do music mostly.
<DalekSec> It's an Ubuntu only package so far, though pkg-multimedia Dev was listed as uploader and seemingly interested at one point.
<DalekSec> Anywho, I'll see if I can't get something in for you for Wombat.
<OvenWerks> thank you
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-21
<zequence> Ok, so we still have double indicators on our ISO. I'll have a look at this during the day.
<zequence> Unless we add a new xchat type of application to our seeds, we should remove the IRC shortcut in the menu, under our Ubuntu Studio Information menu
<zequence> Had an idea on how to customize our desktop to our needs, without having to change anything from something we derive from
<zequence> We should add a new desktop package, something like ubuntustudio-desktop-common, which includes things we would like to have no matter which DE is being used
<zequence> Like, hexchat (instead of xchat9
<zequence> I'll post to the mail list about it
<zequence> or, for now, we just make ubuntustudio-menu depend on hexchat
<zequence> ..and change the startup file
<krytarik> Eww. :)
<OvenWerks> maybe xterm irssi?
<zequence> OvenWerks: I would rather vote for a choice that is as simple as possible for users
<krytarik> The menu shouldn't depend on any IRC client just because it includes an entry for it, that is - if there is none installed by default, just drop that instead.
<zequence> krytarik: I'd rather have a simple way for user to be able to chat with us. Find an alternative, if you want
<krytarik> Yes, me too.
<OvenWerks> If things are set up properly... an irc://url/#ubuntustudio should just work.
<zequence> The menu needs an irc client, so we could add an OR based dependency on all supported clients
<zequence> hexchat and xchat both works with the irc url
<zequence> Are there others?
<OvenWerks> Anything that sets the correct mime.
<flocculant> zequence: just so you know - while hexchat is maintained - it does obviously have bugs - 2 of which really bug me :)
<zequence> OvenWerks: So, there's a file in the package that does that, right?
<flocculant> though I do use it
<zequence> Or, is it a script?
<OvenWerks> MimeType=x-scheme-handler/irc;x-scheme-handler/ircs;
<OvenWerks> From the desktop file.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ah, the desktop file. Right
<OvenWerks> If all else fails it will start firefox :P
<zequence> OvenWerks: Not currently. The menu item is not working right now
<flocculant> and just from a user point of view - I'd not say that irssi would be a good choice - if I grabbed an image to look and found something like that I'd be joining in with the "linux - that'll be for geeks" brigade 
<flocculant> not that I'm really part of studio - just a pov :)
<OvenWerks> flocculant: Sorry, I was not being serious...
<flocculant> OvenWerks: oh good :p
<flocculant> krytarik would have been :)
<krytarik> Also, Pidgin is installed by default, and  https://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/3521  indicates that it works with it too.
<zequence> krytarik: That didn't work either.
<krytarik> :3
<zequence> The menu item is not starting anything right now
<flocculant> krytarik: yea but pidgin is currently only installed because xubuntu do
<flocculant> I'd guess ... 
<zequence> Yes, that's true
<flocculant> \o/ 
<flocculant> I got that right then ;)
<zequence> I would like to create a ubuntustudio-desktop-common package at some point, especially if we are going desktop agnostic. We could add stuff there that we want on any DE
<krytarik> flocculant, zequence: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.xenial/view/head:/desktop#L88
<zequence> konverstation works too. I'm guessing chatzilla as well
<zequence> But, there's no package for chatzilla, from what I can tell
<zequence> Not since 12.04, or so
<zequence> I would be happy to depend on hexchat | xchat | konversation, in that order
<flocculant> zequence: you really should think about ditching xchat tbh 
<zequence> flocculant: We don't have it. 
<zequence> The dependency will install hexchat, if neither of hexchat, xchat or konversation were already installed
<krytarik> flocculant: Hmm, and here I thought you just indicated it the other way around. :P
<krytarik> Other than that, yes I agree with flocculant.
<flocculant> zequence: sorry - thought the implication was you did 
<OvenWerks> pidgin does not do irc very nicely.
<OvenWerks> it is a general do everything app
<zequence> The dependency will install hexchat, if someone doesn't already have one of the three mentioned irc clients
<zequence> I'm adding the dependency now. If someone has a better idea, you are welcome to present it :)
<flocculant> OvenWerks: no it doeasn't but it does it well enough for drive by usage
<OvenWerks> flocculant: right.
<flocculant> OvenWerks: xubuntu has a webchat option on their tracker which we often point people to rather than anything else
<flocculant> I guess it depends on how much studio points people at irc 
<OvenWerks> That would be another option is to direct at a web based irc for the menu.
<flocculant> I'd say that most people who even know what irc is - have their faves
<OvenWerks> flocculant: with an xdg-open irc://url
<flocculant> OvenWerks: no - it's mostly via mail stuff
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> well we point to webchat in the slideshow
<flocculant> but not in a menu anywhere now
<zequence> Bug 1549955
<ubottu> bug 1549955 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "Ubuntustudio IRC menu item does not work." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549955
<zequence> We have a python script with a warning message for the user that they are about to appear on the IRC channel, but I forget why it is no longer used
<zequence> Or, if it was ever.
<zequence> Anyway, starting with this
<OvenWerks> zequence: We used the script for a bit and it made something else not work... though I don't remember what... maybe it kept our menu from working with other DEs
<krytarik> This one is in the installer slideshow currently: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntustudio&nick=studio-user...&prompt=1 - prepending it with "xdg-open" would open it in the preferred web browser.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Really. Well, I should just check the commits then.
<OvenWerks> Quassel-qt4
<zequence> Ok, so the question is - do we keep an IRC client, or do we use the browser only?
<krytarik> (Though HTTPS would be preferrable, of course.)
<OvenWerks> quassel-qt4 has less new depends than konversation
<OvenWerks> zequence: That is a hard question for me. I use irc all the time and would not want to use a web interface
<OvenWerks> A lot of audio sw support is IRC based and so a web client is not a great introduction to that
<zequence> OvenWerks: Well, it's just for user help. All though, if would be nice if the user had some default settings with a number of nice channels already set up
<zequence> Currently, they only get #ubuntustudio anyway
<zequence> You know what, I will go with krytarik's option right now. It's the simples choice. If we want an irc client, I would like to see that in a -desktop-common package instead
<OvenWerks> zequence: the only reason they get that is the desktop file, if you open *chat via Internet you get #ubuntu
<zequence> this does not fill in the username automatically: xdg-open http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntustudio&nick=studio-user...&prompt=1
<zequence> So, this is enough: xdg-open http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntustudio
<zequence> The user needs to fill in a username manually. No big deal
<OvenWerks> Quassel is not bad... defaults to #kubuntu :) But that may be changeable
<OvenWerks> Can you change nick=studio-user to $USER?
<zequence> No, doesn't seem to work
<zequence> Think the & symbol doesn't work. Let's see
<zequence> Need to escape it
<zequence> Then it works
<krytarik> zequence: Or just put it in quotation marks - tried it here as well now.
<zequence> krytarik: Right
<zequence> Well, I tested the package. It's working, so pushing that.
<zequence> Forgot to do debcommits. messy, but the changelog will be somewhat accurate.
<zequence> Sorry about that
<zequence> Hmm, unity-greeter is pulled in because of lightdm
<zequence> That in turn dependency by dependency (or recommend by recommend) pulls in unity-control-center
<zequence> But, Xubuntu has that too
<zequence> So, which indicator are we supposed to have, anyway
<krytarik> zequence: Xubuntu doesn't, actually.
<zequence> krytarik: According to the germinate output, it does
<zequence> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/xubuntu.xenial/all
<zequence> I'm getting the Xubuntu ISO to see how things look there, and then start diffing our sources
<krytarik> I'm usually pulling the manifests first. :)
<zequence> Right, so it doesn't end up on the ISO. But, why?
<krytarik> I'll have a look later.
<zequence> It's in a blacklist file in the seeds
<zequence> So, we need to add that too
<zequence> But, we're blacklisting that too
<zequence> Yet, we have it
<zequence> Wonder if it's only on the live image
<zequence> I really don't know what the supported file is for, tbh.
<zequence> Ours is empty, but not Xubuntu's
<zequence> Besides, our ISO has grown a lot. I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff on it that isn't supposed to be there
<zequence> So, reading up on that here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement#Supported
<zequence> I asked about it on #ubuntu-devel. cjwatson gave me some hints
<zequence> ..why we get unity stuff, that is
<OvenWerks> if we wanted quassel-qt4 with #ubuntustudio as default we could create a package called ubuntustudio-irc that was a copy of quassel-data with /usr/share/kde4/apps/quassel/networks.ini replaced. Not sure if that is worth it. I expect that quassel will be maintained though.
<OvenWerks> Quassel does not, however, seem to be startable with the server/channel on the commandline.
<zequence> I'm guessing our unity problems derive from simple dependency problems. Things need to be seeded in correct order
<zequence> So, hopefully, it's just a matter of rearranging seeds in STRUCTURE
<zequence> lightdm pulls in unity-greeter if lightdm-greeter is not already installed
<zequence> I'm guessing that is where the problem is
<zequence> Think if I just move desktop-core below desktop in STRUCTURE, the problem should go away
<zequence> Let's see
<zequence> That's all I'm doing today, anyway :)
<OvenWerks> zequence: :) lots done anway.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Not bad for a days work, nope
<sakrecoer> i had a go at the translation stuff in -default-settings, following a set of instructive steps krytarik gave me. should be ready to push later this evening.
<zequence> sakrecoer: Alright
<zequence> Don't think my latest change to seeds worked. We still have unity packages. Might be cause desktop-core was not inherited into desktop, but not sure.
<zequence> Trying that, anyway. Xubuntu has that, and I think I removed it for no good reason
<zequence> sakrecoer: All done with -default-settings
<zequence> ?
<sakrecoer> yes!
<sakrecoer> :) was about to ping you!
<zequence> ok, I'll upload it
<sakrecoer> sweet! thank you very much!
<zequence> I just uploaded a new meta, so might just as well
<zequence> Going to do a rebuild of the ISO and see if we get rid of our unity stuff
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-22
<zequence> The first beta candidates are built.
<zequence> ..and not unity-control-center, finally
<zequence> no*
<flocculant> :)
<zequence> Looking good.
<zequence> Rosco2: Hi
<zequence> Rosco2: As I said on the bug report, you can still just add your changes to the bzr branch lp:ubuntustudio-look, and I can upload it
<zequence> I can do uploads up until final release, basically, but at the very end I need to poke someone to get it through
<Rosco2> Thanks - I am on it. Takes some time with all the wallpapers
<Rosco2> Will also double check the diff to make sure both builds (from archive & source) are the same
<zequence> Rosco2: Sorry I missed that. I do check what I upload, but for some reason I didn't catch that at all
<Rosco2> Me to. I think it was my commit that did it.
<Rosco2> So many binaries with diffferences - easy to miss
<zequence> I suppose, and not a mistake you want to make as an uploader :P
<zequence> Rosco2: I was finally able to remove the unity stuff that we've had on the desktop yesterday. The most recent build seems ok.
<zequence> There was a problem with how the seeds were organized. Didn't actually add or remove any packages
<Rosco2> I was glad when I saw you doing that
<zequence> Rosco2: Btw, you're in Denmark? Aren't you from the US?
<Rosco2> Had started to try and see what was causing it
<Rosco2> But I would have been much slower :-)
<Rosco2> Oz > UK > Denmark
<zequence> I had some help from cjwatson. He was able to tell me plainly what to look for - namely the order in which the packages are seeded
<Rosco2> He is a whizz that Colin
<zequence> He is
<sakrecoer> hi Rosco2! :)
<sakrecoer> you've done some serious super work! just wanted to say hi, and possibly highfive :)
<sakrecoer> for some reason i'm not allowed to edit the release note page, again.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes/Beta2/UbuntuStudio
<sakrecoer> it is #canonincal-sysadmin i need to notify right?
<zequence> sakrecoer: Logout and login again
<zequence> Happened to me yesterday. Had an old login active. The cookies must have passed their best before date
<sakrecoer> zequence: won't do...
<sakrecoer> i never keep cookies
<sakrecoer> (but that is a side note:)
<zequence> Well, some form of cache is involved
<zequence> I would have thought the login is stored as a cookie, but I might be wrong
<sakrecoer> it says "Immutable Page" in the top left-hand corner..
<sakrecoer> yeah, i keep cookies until i shut firefox down
<zequence> sakrecoer: Did you logout and login again?
<zequence> Also, do a full refresh
<sakrecoer> zequence: yes 3 times now
<sakrecoer> zequence: yes restarted browser twice
<zequence> shift + ctrl + R
<sakrecoer> tried shoft+ctrl+R 3 times now
<zequence> That's weird. Someone don't like you
<sakrecoer> :'(
<sakrecoer> zequence: is it canonical i need to ping about it?
<zequence> Maybe your cookies are too fresh from the oven
<zequence> Yes
<zequence> Try #canonical-sysadmin 
<sakrecoer> haha! i certainly prefere that fresh cookie theory :')
<zequence> Once I edited multiple wiki pages at one time, and started saving them really fast, one by one. The wiki got upset, and told me to slow down
<zequence> Antispam protection of some sort, I would think
<sakrecoer> well, that would make sense if had edited anything... 
<sakrecoer> but all i've done is a few edits last beta release, and it was freshly re-activated ...
<zequence> No, I don't think what's happened here
<zequence> Just came to think about that, since you were talking about not spamming on the other channel.
<sakrecoer> yeah, i mean, it would make sense if i had worked a lot in there :blush:
<sakrecoer> let's see what they say :) after all, AFK nobody knows i'm a robot, but a wiki might as well know :p
<zequence> Takes one to know one
<Rosco2> ubuntustudio-look pushed
<Rosco2> Diffs check out OK
<Rosco2> On - the wiki. I did have problems a few days back
<Rosco2> Can't remember exactly what I did. But it was probably what you have already done 
<sakrecoer> i'll keep trying during the afternoon :) 
<cfhowlett> sakrecoer, something to add to your planning calendar
<sakrecoer> cfhowlett: hi! :) sure! what would that be?
<cfhowlett> next year is the 10th anniversary of our favorite distro.  I expect parties and gifts.
<cfhowlett> or at least parties and contests
<zequence> Rosco2: Do you make use of debcommit?
<zequence> Rosco2: I sometimes forget, but it's really useful.
<zequence> It's preferred, actually
<zequence> You make one change, describe it in debian/changelog, as you usually do. Then, instead of doing a 'bzr commit ...', you just do 'debcommit'
<Rosco2> Yes - I normally do in Debian
<zequence> Ok
<Rosco2> Now I know it works with bzr too .........
<zequence> :)
<sakrecoer> cfhowlett: hmm... interesting. i've had a background task runing at 2% of my wetware mainframe to organize a meet up...
<cfhowlett> gotta think bigger man.  GLOBAL party.  with beer.  lots and lots of beer.
<sakrecoer> haha!
<cfhowlett> at the very least, a 10 year anniversary wallpaper and a user art showcase
<sakrecoer> i'm all for it! setup teleportal rooms in every city: a room with projections of all other rooms on the walls :p
<cfhowlett> ?
<sakrecoer> yeah! thats a good idea! some super compilation of art/multimedia production
<zequence> Wouldn't be a bad idea to try organize a meetup. Could be in conjuction with some form of a conference
<cfhowlett> this ^^^
<sakrecoer> zequence: very good point!
<zequence> Like, Linux Audio Conference, or something similar
<cfhowlett> or even NON audio events?  
<sakrecoer> i was part of the organization of http://rmll.info but it is _very_ francophone
<sakrecoer> never the less, i'm sure they'd be honoured to host ubuntustudio
<zequence> Sure. Ubuntu Developer Summit is no longer an option, but there are others. Debian Conference is somewhat in the same ballpark
<sakrecoer> are the dev-summit no longer held?
<cfhowlett> I'd go so far as to suggest the major apps: Blender, Audacity, Openshot, Darktable, Gimp all have meetups, yes?
<sakrecoer> cfhowlett: that is why it would be nice to guest at an already established meeting
<zequence> There's no physical summit for Ubuntu developers. Just a virtual one
<zequence> Blender and Gimp at least. Also, there's some DE based meetups.
<sakrecoer> blender just released a new version btw :D
<zequence> Good thing with LAC (Linux Audio Conference) is that you can set up som form of a live gig
<zequence> They aren't having a full blown thing this year. They're calling it mini-LAC http://minilac.linuxaudio.org/index.php/Main_Page
<zequence> Usually some place in central Europe
<zequence> For Debian Conference, it is possible to get travel funds
<sakrecoer> yeah! we should talk to LAC, at least for next year :)
<zequence> But, that should mean you are a contributor to the project somehow
<sakrecoer> well, i think ubuntustudio is a great contributor to audio on linux :) i mean, US is the first step to the heavy stuff for many users :)
<cfhowlett> grrr.  can we *please* not always focus on the audio?  
<cfhowlett> :)
<zequence> We don't, but inevitably it is the major part of this distro
<zequence> Ok, seems uploads need to be approved from now on. My latest upload was not "accepted". Instead it's "waiting for approval"
<zequence> But, that may be only during the Final Beta testing period. May be lifted after for a while again
<zequence> Heading to the studio. bb this evening
<sakrecoer> enjoy zequence 
<sakrecoer> i'm off too, not to go to the mine to dig out some rent money
<sakrecoer> and cfhowlett, great idea! thanks for bringing th 10 year thing to the attention of the group
<cfhowlett> as always ... happy2help!
<knome> i think you also need to be a ubuntu member to be eligible to apply for funds from the community fund
<krytarik> Rosco2: Btw, the Plymouth logo images weren't actually, you just didn't *move* them as well with commit 166 :P - they're still here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-look/trunk/files/head:/lib/plymouth/themes/ubuntustudio-logo/
<krytarik> + dropped
<Rosco2> aargh. I have so many diffs laying about. I missed the obvious.
<Rosco2> Will need another revision to tidy up now. 
<zequence> knome: I was referring to Debian funds, but haven't really investigated what possibilities there are in the Ubuntu community
<knome> zequence, right, that explains... but i don't think it's completely out of question to get funding to those events from the ubuntu fund either
<krytarik> sakrecoer, zequence: An adjusted diff between Xubuntu and Ubuntu Studio Default Settings: http://paste.openstack.org/show/oUaTA1g4owyOfbEwux0T/ - have to run now though.
<sakrecoer> thanx krytarik! :)
<zequence> Rosco2: I had forgotten to push the last commit I made. Just a small changelog fix so my name is used for the upload
<zequence> It's up now, so please pull
<Rosco2> zequence: OK will do.
<Rosco2> Apparently seeded packages need a special prod to get through to that there is a mini freeze during Beta testing
<Rosco2> now that there is a mini freeze
<Rosco2> Back working on imagemagick at the moment
<zequence> Rosco2: I always forget how the freezes work. Seems it will continue until final freeze
<zequence> I can still upload as I normally do. Just that someone will need to review the upload before accepting
<zequence> Needless to say, we should stick to bug fixes (which we should do since Feature Freeze, but we've taken some freedoms)
<Rosco2> zequence: technically you are correct
<Rosco2> But there is an autobot that will accept non-seeded packages to reduce burden on release team
<Rosco2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2016-March/003665.html
<zequence> Rosco2: Right, since the packages I can upload are all seeded
<Rosco2> :-)
<sakrecoer> wiki show no love :/ i'm now a member of ~ubuntu-etherpad, so it should be good. but i get error 500...
<knome> with 500, just refresh
<flocculant> get someone else to refresh while you cross your fingers
<sakrecoer> wish i could say i haven't tried refreshing.  
<knome> clearly not enough :P
<sakrecoer> lol
<sakrecoer> i'll try flocculant s advise
<sakrecoer> bitter robophobic wiki! i put on my gloves and it worked!
<sakrecoer> not even 500, just... welcome you whom isn't sets fingers
<sakrecoer> short victory, still locked from editing... :'( wiki hates me!
<krytarik> sakrecoer: Just do as everyone else does - hate it back. :P
<sakrecoer> haha! i wish! havent got the right version of wetware to run that feeling:p
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-23
<sakrecoer> finally got in to wiki. added a few entries in the change list (whisker, noto, desktop interaction)
<sakrecoer> also made it clear the changes are compared to previous LTS
<sakrecoer> (this was made to final beta release notes)
<sakrecoer> typing on my phone, haven't got the link at hand
<Rosco2> sakrecoer: \o/
<Rosco2> Thanks for that. I was going to ask you to email them later
<Rosco2> no need now
<Rosco2> Will give them a once over later as a double check
<sakrecoer> :)
<sakrecoer> i looked into the diffs krytarik posted here, seems good from my unexperienced POV
<sakrecoer> however, i noticed a to me new audioplayer: gmusic
<sakrecoer> gmusicbrowser
<sakrecoer> looks nice! but audacious is a keeper, right?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I don't think we talked of getting rid of audacious.
<OvenWerks> (unless I missed that)
<sakrecoer> good, i was affraid i'd missed something too....
<krytarik> OvenWerks: It's not included currently, either.
<OvenWerks> krytarik: That could be, we only inherited it from xubuntu, so if they have dropped it, we may have too.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer, krytarik: A lot fo the desktop utilities just follow what xubuntu is doing right now. They generally ship the best tested things.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: krytarik in the diffs audacious is still listed as prefered app for many audio files tho...
<sakrecoer> unless i missunderstand those diffs...
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: which diffs?
<krytarik> Xfce bug 11825.
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11825 in General "Parole segmentation fault related to gtk3/clutter/cogl update" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11825
<krytarik> OvenWerks: http://paste.openstack.org/show/oUaTA1g4owyOfbEwux0T/
<OvenWerks> krytarik: Why would we swap parole with gmusicbrawser? Does it do video too?
<OvenWerks> Ah, sorry that is just a shortcut... NM]
<OvenWerks> Apparently we have totem.
<OvenWerks> audacious looks to be around too.
<krytarik> OvenWerks: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/xenial-dvd-amd64.manifest
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> krytarik: My guess would be that audacious used to be part of the xubuntu desktop and is no longer, but has not been added to Studio's seeds. Looks like a bug to me.
<sakrecoer> i'm going off-line. i'll be testing the live iso and fresh install today, planning on trying upgrade test tomorrow
<zequence> OvenWerks: sakrecoer: I've simply synced our desktop with Xubuntu's. A good all-round media player is good to have, but we should add things like that to a separate desktop package, something like ubuntustudio-desktop-common, in preparation for going desktop agnostic
<zequence> I will probably start working on that after I quit being lead
<zequence> Need to set up my own build server
<zequence> Adding any such packages need to have a valid reason, not just - I like it.
<zequence> Somehow, I imagine all DEs have a good default media player (or two), and that people will install the ones they like if they want to replace it with something
<OvenWerks> zequence: I agree.
<zequence> Testing the 32bit image. Can't seem to get any sound on VB. Going to try on real hardware later
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-24
<Rosco2> Very quiet in here today!
<Rosco2> Are we all busy testing the Beta 2 ISO?
<zequence> Rosco2: I only did a smoketest of the i386. Doesn't seem like anyone else is doing any testing right now
<Rosco2> Looks OK.
<zequence> Yep
<Rosco2> Upgrade from Trusty failed. Just trying from Wily
<zequence> Seems like Xubuntu, Gnome and Vanilla all have problems upgrading
<Rosco2> Had some issues with VMs not restarting after install
<zequence> Yes, that has been an issue for a good while now
<zequence> VirtualBox has that. Haven't tried other VMs
<Rosco2> Will try one more test on hard metal, then I am done
<zequence> My main concern during my test was I got no sound
<zequence> But, haven't tried on hardware yet
<Rosco2> Hopefully just a formality from here. Will wait to see if the others submit results
<Rosco2> sakrecoer promised yesterday
<cfhowlett> I couldn't get boot on my vbox.  failed to the shell
<Rosco2> Did you do a checksum of the image?
<cfhowlett> yep
<sakrecoer> i'm on it now! 
<Rosco2> Virtual Box or other type?
<cfhowlett> vbox
<sakrecoer> live iso, fresh install and upgrade from 14.04
<Rosco2> sakrecoer, excellent. The more we have the better
<sakrecoer> wanted to do the first 2 yesterday, but it seems my family enjoys synching the casual 'break sakrecoer's nut' with tge testreleases
<Rosco2> :-)
<cfhowlett> well, that IS what family is for, yes??
<sakrecoer> yes :) <3
<Rosco2> cfhowlett, might be useful if you at least try spinning up the live session
<cfhowlett> Rosco2, live session flew with no problem.  failed on reboot after install
<Rosco2> Live session inside vbox?
<cfhowlett> exactomundo
<Rosco2> I found the same
<flocculant> cfhowlett: that's unfortunately normal - has been for cycles and cycles
<cfhowlett> grrr. OK then.  
<flocculant> kvm works
<flocculant> I think vmware does
<Rosco2> Little bit different for me this time though
<Rosco2> On machine eventually restarted by itself after 45 minute approx
<Rosco2> One machine
<flocculant> Rosco2: upgrades - it's global afaik, you won't get 14.04 to 16.04 via update-manager
<flocculant> via iso works - as does 15.10 both methods
<flocculant> Rosco2: hah - they get about 20 seconds to reboot or I ignore the vbox issue :p
<Rosco2> Found same for 14.04
<sakrecoer> hmm... the  link to the iso 's on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes/Beta2/UbuntuStudio is broken
<Rosco2> I had to have a cup of tea and annoy the family for a bit!
<sakrecoer> oh... but... where is shte beta-2 ? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/16.04/
<flocculant> sakrecoer: it's not been released yet :D
<sakrecoer> ah.. :D
 * sakrecoer slaps him self with a large bass
<sakrecoer> maybe reading the carefully written instructions can help, maybe :D
<flocculant> reading? 
<flocculant> is that a thing ... 
<flocculant> :p
<sakrecoer> :D nono, it's just a boring alternative to pictures :D
<sakrecoer> now i'm hospitalized like everyone else <3
<sakrecoer> oh.. hehe wrong channel...
<sakrecoer> (to my prides defense, context is available in #US-offtopic :p)
<sakrecoer> when you guys say "smoke-test" what does that mean?
<sakrecoer> adding "ubuntu" or "linux" to a google search doesn't give me any sensible result so to speak....
<Rosco2> sakrecoer, We use the term at work for the type of test when you plug something in, turn it on, and see if smoke comes out
<Rosco2> Here I think we just mean a quick test to see that it sort of works
<sakrecoer> thanks Rosco2 ! :)
<zequence> sakrecoer: In my case it means making sure booting and installing works, as well as jack with realtime is functional both in live and installed environments. I feel those things are required in order for me to make an ISO ready for release, which is something that Rosco2 does now instead of me.
<zequence> I mean, he marks them ready for release. I still do smoketesting
<zequence> But, as Rosco2 already explained. It is the minimal amount of testing to make sure something is functional.
<sakrecoer> :)
<sakrecoer> wuhu!! blueman has chilled out!
<Rosco3> He has been bugging me for the last two days!
<sakrecoer> i've seen the threads!! you rock Rosco3 !!!!
<sakrecoer> kdenlive is back <3
<sakrecoer> image magick fix didn't make it tho..
<sakrecoer> should i repport bugs listed in the "known bugs"?
<Rosco3> No - but I think we can remove the duplicate icon in us-menu ourselves
<Rosco3> I mean yes to re-reporting
<sakrecoer> ok :)
<Rosco3> I meant no to imagemagick not making it
<sakrecoer> if i've understood OvenWerks right, it should be possible to simply hide the icons via the desktop file.
<Rosco3> Making the menu item work is now a much sinpler patch that will hopefully be uploaded soon
<sakrecoer> and since it works great when started from cli...
<sakrecoer> ah ok! wow great!
<Rosco3> Hiding the icons in the desktop file is the right fix for others e.g. Xubuntu
<sakrecoer> ok
<Rosco3> But if it doesn't happen we can fix it for ourselves
<sakrecoer> hm. for some reason i can't find the command to start imagemagick from cli anymore..
<Rosco3> display
<sakrecoer> \o/
<Rosco3> strange name
<sakrecoer> yes. was it always that name?
<Rosco3> not sure - probably
<sakrecoer> defo lefthand path application :D (reffering to arrow that changes orientation)
<sakrecoer> oh wow! now blender starts jack as soon as you set it as audio engine!
<sakrecoer> zequence: we have a dark taskbar, but bright windows, is that something we want, or something on the todo list?
<sakrecoer> Rosco3: do you know the cli command for the "theme configuration" in the settings?
<sakrecoer> it has no effect even after i restart xfce4-panel
<sakrecoer> well, it has effect on the panel, just not on the whisker menu
<zequence> sakrecoer: The theming of the desktop is not something we have been working a lot on since we went away from Gnome2. It's not our own theme.
<zequence> sakrecoer: If you want to work at that, please do
<zequence> sakrecoer: Maybe the whisker menu updates only between logins, or you need to remove it and add it again
<zequence> Rosco3: You can probably mark ours ready whenever. Doesn't seem like there's anything else to be done. I'll be going out now
<zequence> ..doesn't hurt to do more testing of course
<zequence> (by whoever is already doing them, I mean)
<zequence> sakrecoer: If you find any nice tweaks to the theming that works for us, we can upload those while we add a default wallpaper and stuff like that
<sakrecoer> ok, i'll assign myself to that :) as far as i can see, it is mostely a matter of picking a different set of already available settings.
<sakrecoer> ah! great! thanks zequence 
<sakrecoer> i'll match it to that wallpaper you produced zequence :)
<zequence> I will probably wait another week at least with uploading the wallpaper. Need to start working on it now though
<sakrecoer> ok! enjoy your afternoon, zequence!
<zequence> My idea is that the theming could use something dark, but it also needs to be easily readable and functional
<sakrecoer> yes, dark, please :)
<sakrecoer> hehe..
<sakrecoer> or all-bright
<sakrecoer> not a bit of both
<zequence> I use dark theming on my own setup, using Gnome3. I even use Stylish with Firefox to make lots of websites darker.
<zequence> All bright doesn't get a vote from me
<zequence> It's not nice for multimedia production
<sakrecoer> me neither, nor does half-half
<zequence> Isn't that more about your sense of taste, rather than fixing the theme to be good for multimedia production, as well as adhering to Ubuntu Studio artwork tradition?
<zequence> Traditionally, the theme was dark, but with some bright areas
<sakrecoer> what would be mroe my sense of taste?
<zequence> Well, you said not mixing dark and bright
<zequence> But, why is that bad?
<sakrecoer> because it gives an impression of an unconsolidated layout
<OvenWerks> Has anyone tested that qjackctl can not lock up the keyboard still?
<zequence> I'd rather have everything dark myself. But, it also needs to be functional and readable
<sakrecoer> or rather, a layout that hasn't been reflected uppon
<zequence> sakrecoer: I'd say that is a matter of taste
<zequence> It really depends on the design, IMO, if that works or not
<sakrecoer> i think the taskbar should match the windows, but sure, we can have a different color for every elelemnt, that would be more in line with a mix
<zequence> The taskbar is not a window
<sakrecoer> the taskbar and the windows frame
<zequence> IMO, that is a very subjective opinion from you
<sakrecoer> so you prefer having the mix?
<zequence> I can't see how you can make a rule against it
<sakrecoer> i don't think it is possible to speak about colors without being subjective
<sakrecoer> but its possible to speak about consistency in coulour without being subjective
<zequence> But, I do think most graphic artist would prefer something a little darker over all
<sakrecoer> "artist owld prefer" that is your subjective opinion, which happens to line up with mine
<zequence> The taskbar is not a window. In other words, where is the consistency problem?
<sakrecoer> well, there is  a drak bar in the top, that isn't matching with anything
<zequence> It's matching with itself. Cause, there's only one taskbar
<OvenWerks> zequence: bug# 1546328 does not show fix released and at my last test was still able to lock the desktop. This would be a ISO fail for me.
<sakrecoer> ok, but the screen isn't just a taskbar
<zequence> There's plenty of themes that do it that way. So, I really don't understand how you can make a rule about that
<OvenWerks> bug 1546328
<ubottu> bug 1546328 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "Systray option does not work." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1546328
<sakrecoer> i get the feeling you are missing my point zequence 
<zequence> OvenWerks: We will fix that bug before Final Release. That'll have to do for now, I think
<OvenWerks> zequence: A locked desktop? will have to do?
<OvenWerks> OK
 * OvenWerks just woke up
<sakrecoer> there are plenty of rainbow colored themes, they can look good according to personal taste, for sure. i'm talking about taste, i'm talking about consistency in the relationship between drak and bright elements on a screen
<sakrecoer> i'm *not talking about taste
<sakrecoer> anyways, back to testing
<sakrecoer> but right now, it looks like there are 2 themes installed
<zequence> sakrecoer: As said, there are plenty of themes that have dark taskbars, yet no dark borders on windows. You seem to dislike that, so that is a matter of taste for you
<zequence> Gnome comes defaulted that way
<sakrecoer> its not what i'm talking about
<zequence> It's pretty standard, actually
<sakrecoer> there are plenty of rainbow themes, and maybe i don't like them, but at least they are consistent
<sakrecoer> but sure, if we want to have different colors for everything, lets vote about it!
<zequence> That's not going to happen, I'm afraid
<sakrecoer> then i don't get the point of everything you've written about it?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: it is a bit late for that.
<sakrecoer> i was just told it isn't..
<zequence> Anyone can work on artwork, if they want, but I will make the final decision. Optimally we would have an artwork lead and specialized artist, but since we don't have that, I am the art lead, and everyone else is a graphic artist, if they want
<sakrecoer> ... that is was just a matter of using existing options
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: there is time to tweak things, but probably not to overhaul.
<sakrecoer> iÃ¤m talking about tweaking, no overhaul
<zequence> OvenWerks: He would only change theming settings
<OvenWerks> Ack! zsync says I am only at 43%
<sakrecoer> also, i happen to be a specialized graphic-artist with a mster degree from swiss design school... but sure, you are the art-lead with final word
<zequence> sakrecoer: As said, you may work on it, if you want. I will review and decide - not based on personal taste, but on two parameters 1)functionality 2)relevance to Ubuntu Studio style
<sakrecoer> i'd be interested in knowing how you can decide anything related to aestetics, without including any taste factor? but that is for offtopic :)
<zequence> I have nothing else to use except my judgement, and since I'm the lead, I'm the one who has to suffer and do it :)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: from a user POV, I really like the window with focus to have a title bar that is visibly different from non-focus title bars. Perferably different colour such as grey and blue the way 14.04 is.
<sakrecoer> but if you prefere to have it like this: yes, my taste says it is bad taste to have unmatching elements in a graphic chart
<sakrecoer> oh, 14.04 is great yes!
<sakrecoer> it follows our grahpic charts
<sakrecoer> the current doesnt
<sakrecoer> but lets drop it here, and pick it up after test :)
<zequence> I'm not talking for the current theme. I'm talking against rules that evidently don't apply universally
<sakrecoer> i'll propose a set of settings, and then you decide!
<zequence> Sure, and anyone else can have their opinions too, and I will listen to them all
<sakrecoer> i'm not talking about any universal rules, i'm talking about consistency to a graphic charts. 
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: the current trend is to only one full screen app at a time (part of convergence) so the colour of the title bar (if the title bar is even visible) seems to be always the same colour focus or not :P
<zequence> Doesn't matter. Better if you make something and we can see the results
<sakrecoer> :) perfect!
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: yes, i've noticed that. it's a great way of reducing missmatching porblems and also maximise screensurface. but i don't think we can have it that way with xfce..
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: it is not about xfce vs: anything so much as development (sw or audio or video) aften requires more than one window at less than full screen to be useful. We are not making a distro aimed at web browsing like vanilla.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: we are not doing convergence, we are creating a working environment for art development.
 * OvenWerks goes and makes breakfast for the family
<sakrecoer> sure, i'm alligned to what you say OvenWerks. as a blender fanboy, i'm forced to live with that type of missmatch
<sakrecoer> however, the only way to take a non-taste based decision in this case, is to take a group decision.
<sakrecoer> and the way it looks now, looking at our color chart, goes against everything i've learned about functional design, and chart consistency
<sakrecoer> the blue windows were a much better move, looking from the current charts persepctive
<sakrecoer> atm we don't have a dark theme, we have a drak taskbar
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I'll look when I have an ISO to play with :)
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: :) i understand i might appear to be slightly burning for the issue, and it's partialy true. that being said, i'll create a proposition, and will happy live with it being downvoted :)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: no worries, if it looks good at all, it will just get merged.
<Rosco2> Marked Ubuntu Studio as ready
<Rosco2> Looks like in the release team there are problems with grub making working systems unbootable on EFI
<Rosco2> May have respins and a delay
<zequence> sakrecoer: There won't be a vote though. Just making that clear :)
<zequence> Not when it comes to artwork. Doesn't work very well, since we don't really have an art department to do the voting
<zequence> Rosco2: Oh, fun. Another smoketest required then..
<sakrecoer> incredible! 3rd liveboot , blueman crash :(
<sakrecoer> zequence: ok :) well, then we will have a decision based on your taste. it's fin thought. 
<sakrecoer> 'ubuntu-bug display' for imagemagick doesn't seem to produce a imagemagick repport
<sakrecoer> ubuntu-bug imagemagick does anyway
<zequence> sakrecoer: ubuntu-bug can only be used with packages. Sometimes difficult to know which package is in question
<zequence> It's always 'ubuntu-bug <packagename>'
<sakrecoer> yeah.. i don't have any clue as how to find a lead...
<zequence> sakrecoer: Is this about a desktop file (starter in the menu)?
<sakrecoer> ubuntu-bug krita brought me to calligra... i hope it is just the launchpad name
<sakrecoer> yeah, i figured afterwards that i just need to put the number of already exisitng bug in the tracker
<sakrecoer> i did mark that imagemagick bug as "affects me" though
<zequence> sakrecoer: Probably the binary package krita is in the calligra source package
<zequence> ubuntu-bug might redirect the source package
<sakrecoer> ok, lets hope it was right, i did however picked the "don't know package" option and noted in the comment the problem was in krita and that ubuntu-bug bought me there.
<zequence> sakrecoer: If you know the file, but don't know which package it belongs to, you can use dpkg to look for which package it belongs to. Like 'dpkg -S /bin/bash'
<zequence> But, I do think krita has its own source package though
<sakrecoer> ok :) nice!
<zequence> sakrecoer: Another tool, which I don't know very well is apt-file. 
<sakrecoer> is it supposed to eb impossible to save files in a live-boot session?
<zequence> sakrecoer: The filesystem is in RAM. You can download and change files, and all of that will be stored in RAM
<zequence> You can add as much files as your RAM has space
<zequence> But, you can't save in between boots. Not unless you make a special medium.
<sakrecoer> ok.. strange thing is that i can't even write to the partition of my disk which isn't encrypted and is able to be mounted
<sakrecoer> in apps, it doesn't show up as an entry, even after mount. in file manager, drag'n'drop, copy paste, none work
<zequence> sakrecoer: Ok, so you are having a problem with mounting a harddrive?
<sakrecoer> no, it omunts fine, i can open things from it. just not write
<zequence> That could be worth adding a bug for
<sakrecoer> s/omunts/mounts
<sakrecoer> minesweeper? :D
<sakrecoer> makes me shed an extra tear over audcious :D
<sakrecoer> had to do some backup, but now i'm doing a fresh install. i'm connected to my wifi, my wifi displays in the list of install dialogue and password is correct. Yet "Download updates while installing Ubuntu Studio" is greyed out
<sakrecoer> i'm guessing this is because, well, there are no updates since its the latest version
<sakrecoer> if not, what is the installer called? so that i can file a bug about it..
<flocculant> assuming that you *are* connected - that shouldn't be greyed out - ubiquity is the package to file against
<sakrecoer> thanks flocculant! i'm writing from that computer, so i assume i *am* connected :p
<flocculant> :)
<sakrecoer> oh, doesn't really work as i expected.. i was thinking about installing over my dev partition.. but i can't figure how to do that in the custom installation type menu
<sakrecoer> alongside shows my disk as being full...
<sakrecoer> never mind that...
<sakrecoer> strange... it want to allow me to install a third parition, but when i chose to install "along *them*" it display sda1 with different sizes from the current ones
<sakrecoer> sda1 and sda2 that is...
<sakrecoer> nah, this is too risky, if i kill sda1 i might as well wipe my brain too
<sakrecoer> hmm... sda2 doesn't even show in the custom installation type..
<sakrecoer> i'll do a full backup then... need to get my hands on a cheepass computer striclty for dev things...
<sakrecoer> i fail at test deadline again :'(
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: was that you in #ubuntustudio ?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: yes
<OvenWerks> qjackctl still fails the whole ISO.
<OvenWerks> In other news... any one noticed a new entryu in settings?
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: no?
<OvenWerks> Right at the bottom of the settings manager on the right it says "XFCE Panel Switch" This is fantastic!
<sakrecoer> right! i saw some video about it!
<OvenWerks> knome: pass on my thanks to whoever came up with that^^^.
<sakrecoer> ah, and there the ubuntustudio settings got lost ...
<knome> OvenWerks --> bluesabre 
<OvenWerks> If we were not going DE agnostic... I would be all for settings up a unique panel setup for workflows or even dual monitors.
<OvenWerks> knome: Sounds right :) Anyway congrates.
<knome> OvenWerks, thanks, and glad you like the stuff that gets oozed out of the xubuntu team :)
<sakrecoer> yeah its great!
<OvenWerks> I will certainly be playing with that on my system
<sakrecoer> seems the one we use is "xubuntu modern"
<knome> yes, that's the xubuntu default today
<sakrecoer> yes, don't get me wrong about my earlier entries about the look: the look is great, i just think it doesn't quite fit what i understand is the US color chart
<knome> i'm not getting anybody wrong :P
<knome> US can do whatever they want, and nobody in xubuntu gets hurt really
<knome> it's your product
<sakrecoer> good :) i just felt an itch to express my respect for your work.
<sakrecoer> "better safe than sorry"
<knome> trust me, no need to apologize for changing stuff
<sakrecoer> :)
<knome> at least all of my contributions to FOSS are totally free to be ripped apart and modified to something else you like
<sakrecoer> i kindof took that for granted. it was more in how i put things in the discussion with zequence 
<sakrecoer> anyways glad to have centered the dots over the "i" :)
<knome> well it's open source... why would you not be able to take and modify it? :)
<sakrecoer> exactly what i'm thinking. yet, if anyone would have read me as typing "crap is ugly" well, that can hurt, and it wasn't what i ment. at all.
<knome> ;)
<OvenWerks> The style has changed a few times in 1604 already...
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: wants phasex-dark  ;)
<sakrecoer> haha!! 
 * OvenWerks is walking on "thin ice"
<sakrecoer> more like NOX
<sakrecoer> but i don't like those funky stripes in NOX
 * sakrecoer falgging with 777% taste based opinions
<sakrecoer> *flagging even
 * OvenWerks switches to focus follows mouse
<OvenWerks> Oh, this version of Ardour is pre tabs.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: tabs?
<sakrecoer> i struggÃ¶e to imagine where they would be handy
<sakrecoer> struggle*
<OvenWerks> I was just setting the version straight in my mind as I generally buld from git head quite often.
<OvenWerks> This version of guitarix plugin does not mess with the colours of the plugin host \o/
<OvenWerks> (that means I can even use it.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: setting->window manager->style. Default, daloa, MurrinaBlue, Kokodi all look better to me than Greybird.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: of all the above default is the closest to what we have now.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: dalao is new to me, but yes, i tend to prefere compact window headers
<sakrecoer> but i understand it can be annoying for people with pen tablets or shaking hands
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Greybird the focus window and non-focus windows look pretty much the same
<knome> i wouldn't use a computer while shaking hands
 * knome hides
<sakrecoer> i think we shoudl stick to ubuntustudio-blue windows however.
<sakrecoer> haha :)
<OvenWerks> knome: my computer has no hands...
<knome> OvenWerks, but it has legs? woo
<knome> :)
<OvenWerks> infested with keyboards though.
<sakrecoer> sadly, i think many people buy computers only to shake their hands
 * sakrecoer hides
<knome> >__<
<OvenWerks> I think many wring their hands.
<sakrecoer> true!
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: please if you try different themes at least start ardour to see what it looks like as it is sensitive to themes.
<OvenWerks> qtracktor just crashed... open but idle on changing themes.
<sakrecoer> what do you mean by sensitive?
<OvenWerks> zequence: when you put together the background if you can see what it looks like on dual screen.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: changing the theme makes some panels unreadable.
<bluesabre> OvenWerks, knome: originally ali1234, I just added a gui and fixed some bugs on top of xfpanel-switch
<OvenWerks> bluesabre: thanks anyway, it is a great idea, I would almost move it out of settings and put it in the favorites
<OvenWerks> bluesabre: if you say added GUI does that mean I can do things CLI?
<bluesabre> OvenWerks: its not directly exposed, but all of the important bits are in their own file
<bluesabre> so many with minor tinkering
<bluesabre> *maybe
<OvenWerks> I'll look but the gui works just fine too.
<sakrecoer> hmm.. still on my live-iso boot, i get this line poping up in my terminal: (process:22226): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_path_get_basename: assertion 'file_name != NULL' failed
<sakrecoer> even tho i'm connected to a server with ssh
<OvenWerks> I normally use two panels, main and a vertical one on the second monitor.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I am looking at the cosmicstudio background which actually works very well spread across two displays except the logo is cut in half of course, but the words Ubuntu studio cut the u in half because ubuntu is a longer word. Using two spaces would fix that while still allowing the whole thing to be centred.
<sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: the wallpaper zequence did looks like this on dual screen: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/image20160219_072401141.jpg
<sakrecoer_> almost... the picture is admitedly crap :D
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: those are two different screens so it would be odd anyway. I have mine set to spanning screens.
<sakrecoer_> haha! you poshypunk you! "different screen" minding my dumpster treasures?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: mine are cheapy $80 walmart specials.
<sakrecoer_> ah, spanning... well, id that had to be taken in account, you couldn't place anything near the middle
<sakrecoer_> s/id/if
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: lopps off the top and bottom too.
<sakrecoer_> idealy, a scare in mirror repetition :)
<sakrecoer_> square...
<sakrecoer_> my fingers and my brain are giving up for today
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: we didn't have the choice of spanning last I remember.
<sakrecoer_> do we now? i haven't investigated... that machine in the picture is not for developing
 * OvenWerks is trying out all the new stuff he can find.
<OvenWerks> yes we do.
<sakrecoer_> great! also great that you hard test! :)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: I have three or four extra 20g partitions on my machine that I use for testing.
<sakrecoer_> i wanted to do that too, but it seems the dev environment did something funky to my disk when i installed it
<sakrecoer_> fdisk -l : Partition 2 does not start on physical sector boundary. Partition table entries are not in disk order.
<sakrecoer_> so the installer detects the environment on sda6, but wants to put the new one on sda2
<sakrecoer_> i'm backing up all my sda1 one atm, but the ETA is still oscilliating between 12 and 11 hours :(
<sakrecoer_> my irssi is down.. i need a break anyway. read you later
<OvenWerks> oK Audio and midi work, I can record tracks with Ardour (jack backend)
<Len1> pidgin is not the greatest irc client I have ever seen
<Len1> It is nice to have something that covers so many different protocols... but irc does not even have a channel search function.
 * sakrecoer wonders if OTR in pidgin would work over irc
<OvenWerks> OTR?
<sakrecoer> its a plugin. Off The Record
<sakrecoer> encrypts your chats basicaly
<OvenWerks> That would be kind of rude.
<sakrecoer> good for speaking to lover over gtalk without having google giving you adds to "buy her/him a ring" 
<Len1> I was going to say ok in a PM I guess
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks = Len1 ? :)
<OvenWerks> Ja
<sakrecoer> vad bra!
<OvenWerks> I am trying out irc clients.
<OvenWerks> Just found out we don't have synaptic any more :P
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: but we have mines! :D
<OvenWerks> Just one more app I have to download off the top.
<sakrecoer> so synaptic is still developed?
<OvenWerks> Why is synaptic listed as nonfree?
<OvenWerks> I don't know if I care. It is so useful as a distro dev...
<sakrecoer> i liked it too in the sense i felt it was a good compromise between cli and software center
<sakrecoer> but how is it especialy good for a distro dev?
<OvenWerks> SC does not tell you waht it is doing
<OvenWerks> SC does not tell you that BTW I am uninstalling a whole pile of SW because you are in stalling libjack-dev instead of libjack-jackd2-dev just as an example.
<OvenWerks> synaptic always shows which packages are being installed/removed. It also allows you to view depends both ways as well as a list of all files installed and where they are.
<sakrecoer> fair enough.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: there have been people who have accidentally removed most of their audio SW from SC
<sakrecoer> that is so strange when i think of it: why would installing something require removal of something else?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Synaptic also passes package options through to the user while installing. We get more trouble from badly installed jackd for this reason (jackd package asks the user should I install this realtime?)
<sakrecoer> ok: conflicts, but shouldn't that be problematic only if conflicting sw is ran simultaneously?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: installing jackd1 one removes jackd2 and all sw that relies on jackd2.
<OvenWerks> Even though jackd1 has a replaces jackd2 in it.
<OvenWerks> It is possible to replace jackd2 with jackd1 manually from CLI but you have to know what you are doing.
<OvenWerks> It involves doing download only and knowing the right cli switches.
<OvenWerks> wine uninstalls some video drivers too.
<OvenWerks> wine also installs a ton of 32 bit libs on a 64 bit install. It also switches the location of many libs to handle dual architecture... which puts lv2 plugins in a non-standard directory so the user has to manualy tell the plugin host where to look.
<sakrecoer> wine make me want to whine
<OvenWerks> wine is wonderful SW. I think...
<sakrecoer> so is XP... (not)
<OvenWerks> I don't think there is any winos I enjoyed.
<OvenWerks> wine allows people with expensive VST plugins to use them in linux.
<OvenWerks> Look up avlinux.
<sakrecoer> they and their wallet would be better off writing an email to the devs of their favourite expensive vst questioning the reasons as to why they don't produce a -deb
<sakrecoer> i'm utterly uninterested in wine, but if you can tell me more about it in offtopic if you want :p
<OvenWerks> I've already said all I needed
<sakrecoer> :)
 * OvenWerks is writing a bug that synaptic is missing
<knome> OvenWerks, please don't write any more bugs into synaptic :P
<OvenWerks> knome: why?
<OvenWerks> it is a bug that we don't include it.
<knome> oh
<knome> i thought you were going to introduce a new bug in synaptic ;P
<OvenWerks> knome: it is the best gui installer we have.
<OvenWerks> Anything else I have tried is broken.
<knome> actually i'm usually just kidding. take my comments with a load of salt and as if they were jokes :P
<sakrecoer> what time is it where you at OvenWerks ?
<OvenWerks> 1621
<sakrecoer> :) 
<OvenWerks> We are -700
<OvenWerks> Bug #1561776
<ubottu> bug 1561776 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "ubuntustudio-desktop is missing synaptic in 16.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1561776
<zequence> OvenWerks: I would much rather you took that up with Xubuntu, since we sync with them
<zequence> It's not a bug that we are missing something that is not already in Xubuntu, so to speak
<zequence> ..when it comes to the desktop meta
<OvenWerks> I don't know that I should tell xubuntu what to include. I thought you were talking about an extra desktop package to make sure we have things like this.
<knome> xubuntu will not ship synaptic
<knome> i though studio was mostly syncing desktop settings and themes anyway, not package metas
<OvenWerks> knome: I didn't think so, it doesn't really make sense
<knome> yep.
<zequence> We are syncing the Xubuntu desktop, pretty much as it is. We also have additional multimedia metas
<knome> zequence, even applications?
<zequence> It's a little bit late to start working on our own DE setup a month before Final Release
<OvenWerks> If it doesn't make it, thats fine, it is not a show stopper
<zequence> knome: You mean, if we are syncing the desktop applications? Yes, our desktop seed is pretty much identical to Xubuntus
<knome> zequence, that sounds a bit weird, but ok :)
<zequence> It's in line with our goal to become desktop agnostic, so not very weird at all
<zequence> The next step is to base entirely on other DE flavors, but a ubiquity plugin is required for that, aside from smart setup basing on other flavors metas
<OvenWerks> Ya we don't have parted anymore either
<OvenWerks> sorry gparted
<zequence> This is why I proposed for us to have a new package called -desktop-common, so that if we absolutely need some packages, no matter which DE we are on, we can put those there
<zequence> Had it been so that someone was actively maintaining our desktop setup, it might have been that we had not synced with Xubuntu at all. 
<OvenWerks> Thast the package I was talking about yes :)
<zequence> But, since no one has been interested, this is where we are now
<zequence> Even if we are desktop agnostic (allowing the user to install whichever DE they want), it is quite possible for us to have our own default DE setup, specific for multimedia production as one of the many choices
<zequence> But, to have that - someone needs to put some love into that
<zequence> And, that won't be me
<OvenWerks> right. ok.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-25
<sakrecoer> i wish i knew who to put the love i have init..
<sakrecoer> how even..
<sakrecoer> damn it
<sakrecoer> knew how to maintain such thing..
<OvenWerks> You'll learn...
<sakrecoer> :)
<sakrecoer> i certainly intend to.
<OvenWerks> Re: Bug #1561164
<ubottu> bug 1561164 in ubuntustudio-controls (Ubuntu) "Cannot launch Installer from Live media : Ubuntu studio 16.04 lts amd64" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1561164
<OvenWerks> I do not have this problem. Booted live, context menu from desktop icone for install->execute.
<OvenWerks> *icon
<flocculant> OvenWerks: call it incomplete ask them to confirm from an up to date iso - there was a ubiquity change in between bug and now
<OvenWerks> flocculant: done
<flocculant> OvenWerks: my guess "in 59 days it WILL expire" :p
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> funny that it is bugged against -controls...
<flocculant> people do the strangest things
<flocculant> I changed it to ubiquity
<OvenWerks> Thanks.
<flocculant> probably an odd dupe of bug 1560459 which affected everyone
<ubottu> bug 1560459 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with GLib.GError in customize_installer(): vte-pty-error: grantpt failed: Operation not permitted (1)" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1560459
<OvenWerks> I must have missed that one.
<OvenWerks> (my ISO required over 50% zsync)
<flocculant> OvenWerks: there were no reports from studio beforre the iso was rebuilt
<flocculant> yea I remember seeing that :)
<OvenWerks> I think I DL before that, but my last install was 32bit.
<flocculant> right
<OvenWerks> I am pretty much ready to switch my daily use to 16.04 now. I will have to install a pile of sw though for dev work.
<flocculant> :)
<OvenWerks> Also all the desktop stuff we lost sinse 14.04
<flocculant> don't know about studio - I don't use it - but everything I use works still here
<OvenWerks> We are now missing synaptic, gparted, audacious, a good irc client, whatever else.
<flocculant> I guess synaptic and xchat loss came via us
<flocculant> never installed one of the *buntus which had gparted installed 
<flocculant> always available on live - always had to install it
<OvenWerks> we used to have it on the iso, lots of art driven people add drives for speed/separation or whatever.
<OvenWerks> it used to be the thing to do with a daw to have samples, recording and OS on different disks.
<flocculant> OvenWerks: you don't have it on the iso? 
<flocculant> afaik everyone has it on the iso 
<flocculant> I guess you could add it to the install - no idea about that
<OvenWerks> flocculant: maybe it is on the ISO, but installed.
<OvenWerks> I noticed it missing while playing with the installed version.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-03-26
<OvenWerks> Bug 1549732 say there is an upstream fix, so we should probably not create a -Studio specific fix for this.
<ubottu> bug 1549732 in One Hundred Papercuts "Duplicate Imagemagick entries on menu" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549732
<OvenWerks> zequence: just for reference sake, the PA-jack bridge will make bad noise like that with some PA applications (skype is a known bad one) at low latency. I have found that skype is not stable below 512/2. The pa-jack bridge could benefit from using it's own buffer to show desktop apps a latency they understand.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ok. Didn't know that.
<OvenWerks> zequence: most stuff is ok, firefox, audacious etc
 * OvenWerks has a wife that uses skype pretty much daily
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-03-23
<piem> hi all. i just asked about aubio transition in #ubuntu-release, and slangasek helped by closing bug 1639409. it would be really nice if 0.4.3-4 could make it.
<ubottu> bug 1639409 in xjadeo (Ubuntu) "Please move xjadeo to universe" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1639409
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-03-21
<studio-devel> helo!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-03-25
<mikelococo> has anyone ever seen out of control iostat performance from a live-usb boot of studio 17.10?
<mikelococo> I'm seeing w_awaits of 10s of seconds for a USB drive that seems to work fine when not live-booted.
<mikelococo> it makes everything crazy sluggish. even when booted to ram, since writes aren't buffered.
<mikelococo> meh, looks like just a garbage thumb drive. I am able to reproduce outside of the live USB env.
<mikelococo> with fio
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-18
<studiobot> <carbonzero> Hey guys, I know I'm not a developer, yet, but I follow along with you because it's aweskme to watch this thread and take in what you talk about as it helps me understand Studio better and programming more in general. â¦ Ovenwerks: Dude, I'm sorry about happened. I'm just catching up on this conversation and I see that someone you w
<studiobot> ere with died? Man, if you take hugs and need one, I've got plenty. I'll keep you and your's in my meditation prayers. That's the Buddhist in me.
<studiobot> <carbonzero> I do apologize for bringing this around again, the death of your friend, but you guys are my friends and colleagues and I only wanted to say Rest in Power for your friend and my condolences.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-19
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Any ideas on all of these laggy cursor items we're hearing about with 18.10?
<Eickmeyer> Seems to be limited to the lowlatency kernel.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-21
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: are they all one type of cpu or graphics card? That would be my first guess. Does it affect Studio on top of other flavour? I don't have 1810 installed, just 1804 and 1904
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I don't know. I was mostly wondering if you had an opinion/guess.
<Eickmeyer> Also, I don't know if they even bother to update before reporting the issue.
<OvenWerks> Threading in python is a pain... so I will opt out..
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ??
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: in -controls I wanted to check if jack is alive in a second thread to not slow down the GUI... but Then I have to learn signals.
<Eickmeyer> Yikes.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think instead I can use a gui timer and only look for jack when it is supposed to be running anyway.
<OvenWerks> I tried creating a jack client... this does work ok when jack is running, but throws too many errors that are hard to catch/take time. There doesn't seem to be a call that just looks for jack status besides jack_control status, but that can do bad things too.
<OvenWerks> It seems we end up calling jack_control staus at about the same time we do a killall jackdbus... which is bad. If it was after, dbus would just start a new one which is ok.
<Eickmeyer> Makes me wonder how qjackctl does it, or Cadence for that matter.
 * OvenWerks is looking through the libjack api... 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-22
<AsherSimcha> Hello all
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-03-24
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm thinking getting the lsp-plugins into Ubuntu might be my next big project now that Carla is almost done.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-16
<Eickmeyer[m]> *sigh* OvenWerks: Our bug reporter isn't taking "you screwed up" as an answer. *facepalm*
<Eickmeyer[m]> I just responded by telling them they need to ask for "help" not present it as a bug.
<OvenWerks> the video did not show enough to prove his supposition either
<OvenWerks> In fact it was so out of focus as not show much meaningful.
<OvenWerks>  A picture of the jack graph for example would be needed to show that a pulse bridge was in fact active
<OvenWerks> Obviously, if the pulse bridge is not active, it can not be blamed either
<OvenWerks> It does seem that this is the internal audio if and for sure at least some laptops I have personally tried show that jackd will not even start jack set to 64/2. I did not notice if the unit was to to performance mode either.
<OvenWerks> s/to to/set to/
<jphilips> hi Eickmeyer[m]
<jphilips> i had joined the support channel as i saw popey join there in his live video
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yes, he did that as a test.
<jphilips> i've started handling marketing for xubuntu and i wanted to coordinate with other distro teams to help with the promotion before and at the release
<Eickmeyer[m]> We don't typically have an immediate link to this channel since we tend to get support requests every now and then in here (where it doesn't belong).
<jphilips> understood
<Eickmeyer[m]> jphilips: If you want to do that, then the best channel for you to join to do such coordination (which we already do) is #ubuntu-flavors.
<Eickmeyer[m]> We all work together. :)
<jphilips> okay sweet
<jphilips> Eickmeyer[m]: i'm in there chatting with bashfulrobot, so please join in
<Eickmeyer[m]> jphilips: I had other things to take care of this morning, couldn't really chime-in.
<jphilips> Eickmeyer[m]: well until you do have time, i'll see you on that channel. thanks for the help
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-17
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oof... I think hexter might be dead upstream.
<OvenWerk1> not dead... just not well maintained
<OvenWerk1> I think the ladspa part is probably ok... not sure about the GUI
<OvenWerk1> works in 18.04 though
<OvenWerk1> on the other hand, I think we do ship dexed
<OvenWerk1> Carla doesn't seem to realize I have any dssi plugins anyway
<OvenWerk1> qtractor says we have fluidSynth (we have that anyway), Hexter, Whysynth, and Xsynth
<OvenWerk1> The last two are the same so far as I know (forks of each other)
<Eickmeyer[m]> The GUI is toast on Fedora. I might have to retire it from Fedora (I just became the maintainer there). I'm thinking replacing hexter with dexed might be in order.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I'm filing a "life check" issue with hexter on github.
<Eickmeyer[m]> No commits for two years to the day tomorrow.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Carla might just needed to be pointed to the right path.
<Eickmeyer[m]> *need to be
<Eickmeyer[m]> My native language doesn't work before I've completed my second cup of coffee.
<Eickmeyer[m]> We don't ship dexed. There is no package, not even in Debian.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Would definitely be worth packaging though.
 * OvenWerk1 wonders how come he has it then
<Eickmeyer[m]> Unless you compiled it yourself...
<OvenWerk1> Ah, I seem to have downloaded it from somewhere
<Eickmeyer[m]> I just did a package search, and we don't have it.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Maybe Filipe has it in his repos?
<OvenWerk1> no need, LV2s don't really need a package
<OvenWerk1> (well they do to include in a distro)
<OvenWerk1> but because they should not system libs and the xorg lib API is static they should run on any system
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, he doesn't have it. Just checked.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Well, I guess I'll get to work on that.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I honestly doubt I'll hear back from smbolton (hexter).
<OvenWerk1> he has asnwered email in the past
<OvenWerk1> but he has generally said he no longer wishes to work on it.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Looks like he is local to me.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Well, if he doesn't wish to work on it, then I guess I'll retire it in Fedora and we'll remove it from the seed starting next cycle, replacing it with dexed.
<Eickmeyer[m]> It's suffering from some severe bitrot with the GUI not functioning.
<OvenWerk1> dssi is dead basically. Ardour doesn't load them though qtractor does. But out of the four plugins only the two work
<OvenWerk1> qtractor does load lv2s 
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yep. Might be worth removing dssi plugins from the seed altogether going forward then.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Bitrot is a thing.
<OvenWerk1> That may mean removing q-synth
<OvenWerk1> hmm maybe not
<OvenWerk1> It seems fluidsynth-dssi is a dssi wrapper around fluidsynth it self
<Eickmeyer[m]> Interesting.
<OvenWerk1> BTW I am not sure how up to date dexed is either
<Eickmeyer[m]> Last commit = Feb 6, 2020.
<Eickmeyer[m]> So, at least it's active.
<OvenWerk1> good
<Eickmeyer[m]> Last release was 2 years ago tomorrow. hehe
<Eickmeyer[m]> However, it's VST and actively developed.
<OvenWerk1> do we have dragonfly?
<OvenWerk1> https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragonfly-reverb/
<Eickmeyer[m]> Doesn't look like it.
<OvenWerk1> I know that one is actively developed
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, it is. It's not in Debian,  Ubuntu, or Fedora. Arch and Manjaro have it.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Looks easy enough to package.
<OvenWerk1> we should export an LV2 path
<OvenWerk1> default LV2_PATH is $HOME/.lv2:/usr/local/lib/lv2:/usr/lib/lv2
<OvenWerk1> but it should also include: /usr/lib/ardour5/LV2, and the /opt/*/lib/LV2
<Eickmeyer[m]> Agreed. We need something in default-settings with our paths.
<OvenWerk1> I don't know if * works in a path :)
<OvenWerk1> but we could create a file at boot that did that
<Eickmeyer[m]> ^ That's what I mean, that or at login.
<OvenWerk1> right
<Eickmeyer[m]> The .session file could handle it.
<OvenWerk1> wouldn't that be in /etc/skel though?
<OvenWerk1> maybe something in /etc/X11/
<OvenWerk1> I think if we added afile to /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ that would work
<OvenWerk1> unless we wanted to add a plugin path setting to -controls...
<OvenWerk1> I personally don't think we should do that though
<OvenWerk1> I think the place for it might be /etc/X11/Xsession.d/56ubuntustudio-session because we already add that
<OvenWerk1> We could even do it outside the "if" statement
<OvenWerk1> except I guess we don't install that file except with xfce
<OvenWerk1> so it would not work for studio on top of flavour
<OvenWerk1> best to just call it 50set-lv2-path
<Eickmeyer[m]> Nah, /etc/skel is dead.
<Eickmeyer[m]> What I was thinking was using 56ubuntustudio-session for that.
<OvenWerk1> Except it won't work for studio over flavour
<Eickmeyer[m]> Well, if we want to make it DE-agnostic, then we should do something like 50set-audio-plugin-paths since there's more paths to be set than LV2.
<OvenWerk1> sure
<Eickmeyer[m]> Would that be appropriate to add to -controls?
<OvenWerk1> no
<OvenWerk1>  not in my opinion
<Eickmeyer[m]> Didn't think so. Probably -performance-tweaks then (subpackage of -default-settings).
<Eickmeyer[m]> Probably needs a rename though.
<OvenWerk1> What I want to cover are packages like Mixbus that include plugins the user paid for and may want to use with something other than just Mixbus
<OvenWerk1> So they should just show up in carla or Ardour or qtractor
 * OvenWerk1 is off to the bank
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yep.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-19
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> There we go.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> no I didnt. I'll save it for the next round?
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Sure.
<studiobot> <azbulutlu> thanks for checking. and yeah I had to deal with ordering and picking up the wacom then well have been a bit distracted with issues related to restrictions etc
<Eickmeyer[m]> No worries. I feel like we're just about ready for beta at this point. I think I just need to check on Carla and see how close to RC-2 Falktx is.
<Eickmeyer> teward: 
<teward> *was poked*
<Eickmeyer> Dang it, damn enter button.
<Eickmeyer> The developer of Carla is hoping to get 2.1 final on April 15th. We have 2.1 RC1 in the repos now. He wants to push out RC2 shortly. I can do that, but will we be able to get some sort of exception to get final in as a bugfix, you think?
<Eickmeyer> teward: ^
<teward> that's a release team decision
<teward> does it roll on the images?
<teward> it'd have to be *real* critical to get it in to break final freeze
<Eickmeyer> Final Freeze is the 16th, so if it's done the day before, we should be good.
<Eickmeyer> It does roll on the images.
<teward> does it only contain bugfixes or does it contain any changes that'll need an FFe?
<Eickmeyer> It should only be bugfixes at this piont. I talked to him about new features being introduced beyond RC and he said there were none.
<RikMills> you can upload it then. it will land in the unapproved queue for the release team to yay or nay
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: Thanks. That's kinda what I thought.
<teward> make sure at that point to note in the changelog that it's a bugfix only upload.
<teward> (and that the changes introduced simply have bugfixes introduced)
<Eickmeyer> teward: Yeah, that's going to have to be the plan.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-20
<Eickmeyer> teward: There has been a new release of materia-gtk-theme. Do you think it's too late to slide this one in?
<teward> does it include new features?
<Eickmeyer> teward: I don't think so? https://github.com/nana-4/materia-theme/releases/tag/v20200320
<teward> if you want it it needs FFe'd
<Eickmeyer> I'm just annoyed that it got released right after UIF.
<Eickmeyer> I mean, the "Add support ver version 3.36" might be worth it.
<teward> make sure that it won't impact the current since they drop 3.18-3.24 and 'legacy' Ubuntu specific sessions
<teward> but yeah I think you'll need an FFe or a UIF exception (check with -release ?)
<Eickmeyer> Well, I think I'll do both at once. Shouldn't impact current since it's at 3.36.
<Eickmeyer> teward: ^
<Eickmeyer> teward: Looks like the legacy versions a re 17.10, 18.04, and 18.10 and were simply instructions for replacing the gnome-shell.css file: https://github.com/nana-4/materia-theme/commit/43c1cdeb4d4efc10ddf657183111314639f9aa48
<Eickmeyer> Definitely does not affect Focal.
<teward> ok
<teward> still needs a UI Freeze Exception I think
<Eickmeyer> teward: Well, then, how does bug 1868280 look?
<ubottu> bug 1868280 in materia-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "[FFe] [UIFe] Please update materia-gtk-theme to 20200320 (latest release)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868280
<Eickmeyer> Technically, though, it's not a user interface *change* per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess.
<Eickmeyer> though, I think I do cover that anyhow.
<teward> i think it falls under UIFe and FFe
<teward> so we'll let the release team handle it :P
<Eickmeyer> Yep, in their hands now.
<teward> and yes it does count under UIF - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze
<teward> > the appearance of the desktop, <  this can be interpreted to be themes too
<Eickmeyer> teward: That's now TWO upstreams that decided to release after Feature Freeze. Not only materia-gtk-theme, but lsp-plugins just decided to release a new version today. smdh
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-21
<Eickmeyer> And with that, we already have an item for the backports.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: work is also moving on -controls  so that will end up there as well
<OvenWerks> I am going slow though as I have two boys to keep entertained...
<teward> hey at least you have distractions I am going stir crazy right now stuck at home with everything shut
<OvenWerks> Build a boat. " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats"
<teward> heh.  in an apartment building so would be hard.  also, cant get wood - hardware store is shut
<OvenWerks> My 33 year old son and I built a boat in the living room when he was about 8
<OvenWerks> It was fun getting it out the door but we did.
<OvenWerks> but yeah you do need the wood
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I hear that. I've got one boy to keep entertained, but he keeps himself entertained fairly well.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-menu/+bug/1868410
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868410 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "Menu->Audio Production is not sorted" [Undecided,New]
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'll take a look and see what's up.
<OvenWerks> I am not sure which gnome budgie is but I suspect this is actually the system menu file that comes with budgie
<OvenWerks> both the gnome 2era and the newer system menu definitions have a bug that causes this... the gnome devs do not care (having moved on to no menu) and those who do deny it is a bug
<Eickmeyer> Well, I'll see what I've got compared to the order -menu does.
<OvenWerks> unfortunately the sample menu definition file at freedesktop.org
<OvenWerks> is broken
<Eickmeyer> Looks like it's sorted for me, so I can't reproduce.
<Eickmeyer> I'll check the latest ISO too.
<OvenWerks> if you look at: https://specifications.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/ar01s08.html you will find close to the top a line: <MergeDir>applications-merged</MergeDir>
<OvenWerks> that line really should be the second line from the bottom
<OvenWerks> that is it should be the last line before the last </Menu>
<Eickmeyer> That line is missing from studio.menu. You're saying it should be there OvenWerks?
<OvenWerks> That line shouold not be in that file.
<Eickmeyer> It's not. I do know what he's talking about though, but in this case it's sorted in a workflow priority, not alphabetcially. Not a bug, as far as I can tell.
<OvenWerks> compare: /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu with /etc/xdg/xdg/etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus/
<OvenWerks> the same file.
<Eickmeyer> We don't touch either of those in ubuntustudio-menu.
<OvenWerks> no. that wouold be the wrong package
<Eickmeyer> It's in -default-settings that we have that.
<OvenWerks> yes
<OvenWerks> the problem would not be in our package but in the budgie package
<Eickmeyer> Right, so it's completely irrellevant to us and not a bug.
<OvenWerks> compare to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-menus/+bug/1192002
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192002 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "Menu config file merges menus from standard locations too soon so defaults override merges." [Low,Triaged]
<OvenWerks> I actually put out bug reports for flavour menu files with this problem
<OvenWerks> none have been fixed except maybe xubuntu (and not xfce?) and I have heard that lx may have by now too.
<OvenWerks> kubuntu/plasma/kde has always been correct
<Eickmeyer> No, I tested it, and even if it has the bug, our menus are honored.
<OvenWerks> you have budgie too?
<OvenWerks>  wow.
<Eickmeyer> I don't think we can rightfully expect other desktop environments to conform to it. -menu is very specific to Xfce.
<OvenWerks> yeah the menus would still work, but normally in that case the order would be wrong
<Eickmeyer> Exactly. I'm going to mark the bug as "Won't Fix" because we have it in a workflow prioritization order more than an alphabetical order. His "not sorted" is intentional in our case.
<OvenWerks> it was not meant to be, I actually spent a lot of time making that as generic as possible and it will work with any correct .menu file I have tried
<OvenWerks> their bug description is not helpful either... a list of sub menus when correct and when broken would be much better
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<OvenWerks> (what I see vs. what I hoped to see)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. For instance, GNOME doesn't even use a menu, so they don't care. Xfce, Plasma, and LXQt honor the menu pretty well, though I think, especially in LSQt's case, it gets sorted alphabetically.
<Eickmeyer> Budgie has to implement their own system altogether since they're GNOME-based.
<Eickmeyer> Not sure what MATE does, but their menu plugins have difficulty conforming if they're not the old GNOME 2 style menu.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, I think that is what this bug is about. If I knew which of my many bugs it works with I could mark it as a duplicate of.
<Eickmeyer> I marked it invalid. He wants it "sorted" but we have it intentionally in the order we have it in.
<OvenWerks> yup.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-03-22
<Eickmeyer> Also they tagged a budgie issue in the ISO tracker, I edited the report to remove that budgie issue.
<Eickmeyer> (admin access is nice sometimes)
<Eickmeyer> I think the budgie bug on our report was an accident.
<Eickmeyer> This person appears to be overly happy to report bugs, even when they're not exactly show-stoppers.
<Eickmeyer> What we're looking for at this point are show-stopper bugs, not the stuff he's reporting.
<OvenWerks> I been one of those :)
<Eickmeyer> Hehe
<Eickmeyer> teward: If you want to just test my GIT of materia-gtk-theme while we're waiting, that'd be nice since that's one that I don't have PPU for. Yet. I really need to JFD my packageset/PPU application.
<teward> test how?
<teward> Eickmeyer: and yes, you need to get the packageset/PPU app
<teward> there should probably be an ubuntustudio packageset that these pacakges get into
<Eickmeyer> teward: There is, but the only person that has it is Ross and he's barely, if ever, in here. He is responsive to bugs though.
<teward> just apply to have the packageset
<Eickmeyer> teward: And test, meaning build/whatever you do when I throw a package your way.
<teward> ok
<teward> atm i'm working on backport(s) for XCA in Debian though because requested
<teward> so give me a bit
<Eickmeyer> No worries, take your time.
<Eickmeyer> People have been gunshy about letting me have packageset in the past, maybe that's subsided.
<teward> Eickmeyer: link to git plz I lazy :P
