#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-05
<godbyk> I'm back home now.
<godbyk> Internet connection is a bit unstable at the moment, though.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: When someone starts a new translation, what do we have to do to tell quickshot about it?
<Red_HamsterX> Just add an entry to config/languages
<Red_HamsterX> On the server.
<Red_HamsterX> Want me to get involved in the current mailing list discussion, godbyk?
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: sure, if you like.  I just pointed Anup to the Quickshot web page.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, I just got your response.
<godbyk> I've got a couple more languages (at least) for you to add to quickshot.  Let me finish fixing this bug in the ubuntu-manual.cls file (which causes language codes with underscores in them to fail to compile).
<godbyk> There are now 55 .po files for ubuntu-manual.
<Red_HamsterX> We could map those to some other value.
<godbyk> Well, it's just a bit of funkiness inside latex.
<Red_HamsterX> It thinks they're subscripts?
<godbyk> Since it normally thinks that _ means 'subscript', it wants to put it in math mode, or expects it to be escaped with a backslash.
<godbyk> yep.
<godbyk> but I'm going to tell it to shove off and put up with it. :)
<Red_HamsterX> If remapping the values somehow would work, I can implement a hack for now.
<Red_HamsterX> If you can't get your fix working right.
<godbyk> (The problem is that in the code in ubuntu-manual.cls, we sometimes need it to be escaped, and sometimes it's escaped internally, so it hates me either way.  But I'll have it all tidied up soon.)
<godbyk> since everything else in the toolchain is using the _ it seems like it's best to beat latex over the head until it caves than to force everyone else to work around latex. :)
<godbyk> I think I've got it fixed now.
<godbyk> Just testing with a couple translations.
<godbyk> Fixed!
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Here are the languages I've got in the manual so far: af ar ast bg bn ca cs da de el en_AU en_GB eo es et eu fa fi fr gl grc he hi hu ia id it ja ko la lt ml mr ms nb nl oc pl pt_BR pt ro ru sl sq sr sv ta te th tr uk vi zh_CH zh_CN zh_TW
<godbyk> those missing in quickshot are: af en_AU en_GB tr
<godbyk> Afrikaans (af) and Turkish (tr) being the two really new ones.
<daker> where is humphreybc ?
<godbyk> daker: he's on holiday this weekend. he will be back tomorrow.
<daker> oh
<Red_HamsterX> af and tr have been added.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Thanks. I'm trying to upload things now, but my Internet connection keeps going up and down.
<godbyk> Driving my nuts.
<Red_HamsterX> For Quickshot, our current plan is to have only one en branch, since we observed only one or two differences affecting labels not actively being described.
<Red_HamsterX> (This probbly holds true for pt, too)
<godbyk> Okay.
<godbyk> The pt and pt_BR may be a different story, though. I seem to recall that are some not inconsiderable differences. I don't know what I'm talking about, though. :-)
<Red_HamsterX> (But I don't know how similar Brazilian is to European)
<Red_HamsterX> In English, it's just 'ue's and 'our's.
<Red_HamsterX> And some s/z/s.
<godbyk> "The differences between Portuguese dialects are mostly in phonology, in the frequency of usage of certain grammatical forms, and especially in the distance between the formal and informal levels of speech. Lexical differences are numerous but largely confined to "peripheral" words such as plants, animals, and other local items, with little impact in the core lexicon. Dialectal deviations from the official grammar are relatively few.
<godbyk>  As a consequence, all Portuguese dialects are mutually intelligible; although for some of the most extremely divergent pairs the phonological changes may make it difficult for speakers to understand rapid speech."
<godbyk> from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_dialects
<godbyk> sounds like one pt may be okay. we can add another if the translators wish. makes no difference to me.
<Red_HamsterX> If we lack a full pt, we can just backport BR.
<godbyk> I guess my take on all that is that if someone wants to do the work of taking screenshots and translating for their dialect, I'm okay with it.
<Red_HamsterX> And fix it for rev 2.
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/2 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 2
<godbyk> It generally doesn't affect my typography stuff (that I know of).
<godbyk> I'm rebranching because my local copy is all mucked up.  I didn't pull before I copied over the new translations and there were translations in the branch that conflicted.
<godbyk> Seems easier to just download a fresh copy and do it again. :)
<daker> Red_HamsterX, how to redefine an already defined constant ?
<daker> in php :)
<godbyk> If it's a constant, shouldn't it by definition not be changed? :)
<daker> godbyk, http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.runkit-constant-redefine.php
<godbyk> Seems like it's not constant if you can change it. Just a difficult-to-modify variable.
<Red_HamsterX> Agreed.
<daker> yes :)
<Red_HamsterX> Why do you need to mess with what sshould never be changed, daker?
<Red_HamsterX> There are other ways of defining constants or use within your own scripts.
<Red_HamsterX> for use*
<daker> oki
<daker> constant are easy to use than variable
<godbyk> Can you give us more details (an example, perhaps) of what you're trying to do?
<daker> define('TEST','awesome');
<daker> $test='awesome';
<daker> function test_func()
<daker> {
<daker> global $test;
<daker> echo $test;
<daker> echo TEST;
<daker> }
<daker> see
<daker> every time i want to use $test i have to set it as global
<godbyk> I'd pass it into the function as an argument, then.
<godbyk> $test = 'awesome';
<godbyk> function test_func($test) {
<godbyk> echo $test;
<godbyk> }
<godbyk> you only need to use global $test if you want to modify $test, right?
<daker> greeaaat hhhhhhhhhhh
<godbyk> (It's been a while since I've used php, so I could be completely wrong on all of this. :-))
<daker> other thing
<daker> define('TEST','awesome');
<daker> $test='awesome';
<daker> include('test.php');
<daker> / test.php
<daker> echo $test;
<daker> echo TEST;
<daker> is that right ?
<godbyk> that's the / test.php line supposed to be?
<daker> that irc how delete the other / its comment // test.php
<godbyk> oh! gotcha.
<godbyk> well, that code would work, I think. Though I'm still not sure what you're trying to do. :)
<daker> just to check if my code is correct
<daker> i am asking stupid questions
<daker> :D
<godbyk> okay. :)
 * daker is downloading Iron Man 2
<daker> Red_HamsterX, have you read i suggest for the server
<godbyk> Hey, daker, if you're bored, you could pretty up http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/.
<godbyk> I just use an old site template you made and drop in an html table that gets regenerated each time I run a script.
<godbyk> I gave the table cells styles, so we can make them look nice with css.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> unfortunately, my css stuff appears to be ignored at the moment. (haven't looked into it at all yet.)
<godbyk> if you want the table code to be different, just let me know how you want it to be and I'll adjust my script.
<daker> kk
<godbyk> (basically, the table is pulled in with an include('build-results.html'); line.
<daker> can you pull your code to the branch ?
<daker> "/website/builds"
<godbyk> it might be neat to have some ajaxy stuff where you could click on the number-of-errors cell and it'll show you the error messages.  (similarly for warnings)
<daker> oki
<godbyk> daker: okay, I just pushed the code.
<daker> godbyk, the error messages & the warnings are located where ?
<godbyk> they're just in the .log files.
<godbyk> I'll have to do a little work to parse them out.
<daker> i try to the arabic version of the manual
<daker> just to inform you that i am arabic
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> I still need to fix the LTR layout.
<daker> yeah
<daker> godbyk, you are doing a good job man
<godbyk> ?
<daker> i said your are doing a good job
<daker> :)
<godbyk> thanks
<kermiac> hi. is there a list of screenshots that are still needed for the ubuntu-manual?
<daker> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/    kermiac
<kermiac> ty daker :)
<daker> try to complete some of them like the "de" still need 4 screenshots
<daker> the "ja" too
<kermiac> is there any way to see one (like en) that have already been done so I can ensure they are consistant?
<daker> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/
<kermiac> thanks again daker :)
<daker> no problem
 * daker Iron Man 2 => 100% ohohohoo
<daker> godbyk, i'll prepare something very good for the statistics
<godbyk> daker: cool, thanks!
<daker> now i'll go to bed :)
<daker> good night
<godbyk> g'night, daker
 * IlyaHaykinson doing a good deed and translating the manual's web site into Esperanto
 * IlyaHaykinson does not really know Esperanto well enough to translate anything beyond single words or noun phrases
<donri> Saluton IlyaHaykinson.
<IlyaHaykinson> saluton, donri
<IlyaHaykinson> crap, not having much luck in Esperanto. Having even less luck in Russian: I know the language well, but don't know _any_ technical terms.
<IlyaHaykinson> and it'd suck to pick the wrong word for "installing" or "download"
<donri> Try a dictionary?
<IlyaHaykinson> sure, quite possible. but traditional dictionaries don't cover technical jargon very well.
<IlyaHaykinson> i think i'll just leave it to the locals.
<IlyaHaykinson> it's fascinating just how little reading proficiency correlates with technical writing proficiency
<donri> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/install#Translations etc :)
<IlyaHaykinson> nod. i'm not disputing that i could do it. just that i _should_, given that i would have to research every word, nearly
<donri> Heh.
<donri> Maybe someone maintains a Ubuntu specific dictionary for translators. The Swedish community does that.
<IlyaHaykinson> i think they do, actually.
<IlyaHaykinson> but i noticed it mainly has ubuntuisms
<donri> Nothing like http://www.ubuntu-se.org/wiki/Ordlista_f%C3%B6r_%C3%B6vers%C3%A4ttare ?
<IlyaHaykinson> my language skills predate common computer usage (i left the country as a kid in the late 80s), so even things like "download" or proper ways of describing "click" are things i'd have to look up
<donri> Ok. :)
<IlyaHaykinson> but, sure, they have a list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuRussianTranslators/Dictionary
<IlyaHaykinson> i guess if the translation falls behind, i could help out.
<Ddorda> should I translate "\eg", or it's some kind of command?
<Ddorda> The output of a command is any text it displays on the next line after typing a command and pressing enter, \eg, if you type \commandlineapp{pwd} into a terminal and press \keystroke{Enter}, the directory name it displays on the next line is the output.
<ubuntujenkins> hello all
<humphreybc> hi everyone, i'm back
<thorwil> hi!
<ubuntujenkins> hello ben
<thorwil> godbyk, godbyk-android: what's the state regarding title page translations?
<humphreybc> hiya thorwil and ubuntujenkins
<humphreybc> how are we going?
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot has a few more bugs but we are holding up.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> translation and screenshot status?
<humphreybc> i see many screenshots have been taken already
<thorwil> so i made the call for help post on my blog short, but linked to humphreybc's. stats claim 13347 views
<humphreybc> translations are a bit slow
<humphreybc> thorwil: neat. I've got 958 views on my post I believe, not that many.
<humphreybc> I didn't see it on the planet?
<ubuntujenkins> I think screenshots are somewhat easier than the translations, hence they are being done quicker
<ubuntujenkins> I saw thorwil's post on the planet
<humphreybc> oh good
<humphreybc> we need to get more posts on the planet *cough*popey*cough*
<humphreybc> *cough*pleia2*cough*
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc, we have a quickshot ideas etherpad for the next cycle here: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/f0VIdaLXWZ
<humphreybc> wow, impressive
<humphreybc> you guys are going to be busy
<ubuntujenkins> feel free to add stuff
<humphreybc> i see support for other projects is there, that's great
<humphreybc> I definitely want this to be available for other documentation projects to use
<nisshh> im back!
<ubuntujenkins> anyone know ho i can see the revisons for a specific file?
<humphreybc> for bzr?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: try: bzr diff filename
<nisshh> or: bzr log filename
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: diff shows you actual changes and log shows you a list of revisions
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: for a specific revision go: bzr log -r500 filename
<ubuntujenkins> diff only shows the difference between your file and the one in bzr, I have worked out whats wrong but am not sure when it got changed
<ubuntujenkins> someone has been messing with the file permisson stuff in quickshot
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: on noes! thats not good
<ubuntujenkins> no its not i am haveing to update the releases because of it
<ubuntujenkins> I am glad i understand ppas now
<nisshh> darn thats a pain
<nisshh> lol
<ubuntujenkins> the first time i did a ppa it took me 6+ hours, its a 10 min job if that now
<nisshh> humphreybc: have you had any issues with rhythmbox muting when you try to play a song in it in lucid?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: wow!
<humphreybc> not recently, i've been on holiday away from my computer since thursday
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh, I haven't had any rhythmbox issues in lucid
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: really, must just be me then, but when i first try to play a song rhythmbox mutes itself locally until i unmute it, its REALLy annoying
<donri> ubuntujenkins, maybe you want bzr annotate
<ubuntujenkins> actually nisshh I had that once about a month ago but is has gone away
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: darn it! lol, how come i always get the bugs!
<ubuntujenkins> donri, that looks more like what i need thanks
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh, may be its your .config or .gnome2 etc files?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: good point, ill check after i reboot, brb!
<nisshh> back now
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: meh, rhythmbox bug is gone!
<ubuntujenkins> strange nisshh
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: yea i think it was my onboard audio doing something strange
<nisshh> not rhythmbox
 * ubuntujenkins they have changed the login screen AGAIN
<nisshh> lol, i saw that
<nisshh> in last weekends update
<ubuntujenkins> I am not a fan of the orange logo
<ubuntujenkins> it looked better black
<nisshh> its obvious they havent quite got rid of brown/orange
<nisshh> its way to bright a color for a logo too!
<ubuntujenkins> it looks so out of place on the login screen
<ubuntujenkins> at least I hadn't got around to faking the new one for the manual
<nisshh> hehe
<ubuntujenkins> the button change it through so i can now do a new release of the quickshot cd
<nisshh> oh crap, i just noticed the rearranged window buttons, forgot they were getting changes
<nisshh> they are worse than before now
<nisshh> have to get used to them AGAIN!
<ubuntujenkins> I like them that way takes some getting use to but its all right. I changed them my self as soon as the announcement was out.
<nisshh> hehe yea
<donri> Yea is nice. This way they wont move around depending on what buttons are present.
<humphreybc> godbyk ping
<humphreybc> hi humphreybc-cell
<humphreybc-cell> Hi humphreybc
<nisshh> lol
<humphreybc> how's it going?
<humphreybc-cell> Not too bad thanks
<nisshh> insanity from too much work and not enough sleep?
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> i've actually had a great amount of sleep
<humphreybc> been on holiday for three days
<nisshh> hehe, count me out of the group who has had alot of sleep
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> iv had "maybe" 12 hours sleep since last friday
<humphreybc> been taking lots of screenshots? :P
<nisshh> humphreybc: no, i havent
<humphreybc> tsk tsk
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> i havent had comp access for 4 days lol
<nisshh> went fishing thismorning
<humphreybc> i suppose that's okay then
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> caught a nice 1kg skippy
<nisshh> now im doing a bricklaying job for a mate then im off down south for a week and a half! far out dude!
<humphreybc> lol nisshh such an aussie
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> busy as hell right now
<nisshh> i see the manual is shaping up really nicely now
<humphreybc> is it?
<humphreybc> translations are a bit slow
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> a guy actually asked on the mailing list when translations end!?
<humphreybc> around RC
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> also i think the bzr section on our wiki page needs redoing
<nisshh> alot of people are getting confused by it
<humphreybc> lol yeah
<nisshh> i might take that on
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> make it as simple as possible
<nisshh> yep
<humphreybc> you should write a script they can download
<humphreybc> just a simple bash script
<nisshh> to download the latest revision?
<Daker> hi @all
<humphreybc> well just to run stuff like bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual
<nisshh> and install and configure bzr?
<humphreybc> maybe it could install bzr, then set up bzr whoami
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> (and it prompts for them to enter their name and email)
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> then downloads our branch, again, it could either prompt to enter in a location to download it to or just download to where the script is
<humphreybc> that's all it'd need to do
<nisshh> although im not adept at bash scripting yet
<humphreybc> hey Daker
<nisshh> ill do some research
<humphreybc> it's pretty easy
<nisshh> yea
<Daker> i can help to do that humphreybc
<nisshh> i do python so bash isnt hard
<humphreybc> daker, could you do me a favour please and remove the Bug and Audio Book navigation entries from the website?
<humphreybc> nisshh: well do it in python then :)
<humphreybc> Daker, we're not using the bug thing anymore with the spreadsheet form until we can set it up with an API for launchpad, and the audio book thing was just an april fools
<Daker> hhhhhhhhhhhh
<Daker> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<nisshh> humphreybc: hmmmm, nah i have no idea how to download a bzr branch with python
<Daker> kk
<humphreybc> yeah, the main site daker
<nisshh> humphreybc: lol, i was wondering about that lol
<humphreybc> so we just want to remove those two pages from the nav bar
<Daker> kk
<Daker> be back
<humphreybc> so it should just be About Get Involved Quickshot Contributors
<nisshh> humphreybc: i might be able to use my bros netbook while im away later this week and next week, since he has crunchbang on it
<humphreybc> okay
<nisshh> humphreybc: though i might have to steal me some wifi
<humphreybc> haha
<nisshh> humphreybc: where should i put this bash script for bzr?
<humphreybc> just store it locally for now till you've got it working
<nisshh> yep, i mean after i finish it
<humphreybc> then you can stick it in the branch where others can help, then we'll host it on the server
<nisshh> ah ok
<nisshh> alright ill get on that later tonight
<nisshh> brb dinner time
 * humphreybc is getting frustrated. Slow internet, docky crashing, gwibber using 100% CPU
 * ubuntujenkins is frustrated the live cd build failed brb
<Ddorda> is it possible to download the manual in my language?
<daker> what is your language Ddorda ?
<Ddorda> daker: Hebrew
<Ddorda> daker: Im translating it, and want to see how it looks now
<daker> http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<Ddorda> daker: thanks a lot :D
<daker> enjoy it
<Ddorda> daker: will do my best :P
<daker> cool
<Ddorda> daker: seems like there are some bugs..
<daker> Ddorda, a lot of bugs, i thought :D
<daker> hebrew is a rtl language
<Ddorda> yea
<daker> so godbyk still need to fix the RTL layout.
 * ubuntujenkins starts a live cd customisation form scratch
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
<semioticrobotic> awesome!  how do you do that?
<ubuntujenkins> Well its fairly easy the wiki stuff on it is useful. fitting 50 language packs on it is the hard part. We ripped out allot of stuff
<ubuntujenkins> updating an old disk can cause problems though, hence why I am starting from scratch
<semioticrobotic> I'm interested in maintaining a single flash drive that's capable of booting to and installing a number of Ubuntu versions.  Is this possible?
<ubuntujenkins> I haven't tried it but i also want to do that. The live cds that come with linux format boot into different versions of linux from the same disk, so it is possible.
<ubuntujenkins> you would have to do some form of loading screen to choose each one. I haven't got a linux format disk as they are all at uni
<semioticrobotic> yes, it must be possible ... but I'm still such a novice with these things that reading Web tutorials is difficult
<semioticrobotic> I'd also like the USB drive to be updatable every time a new release hits ... don't want to reformat the drive each time and install everything all over again.
<ubuntujenkins> the automatic updating would be hard, do you want to add custom packages to the disk?
<semioticrobotic> not necessarily ... I'd just want a flash drive that can boot and install a number of default LiveCD images
<semioticrobotic> and the flash drive wouldn't need to automatically update, really ... it would just need to be able to allow ME to add another LiveCD imagine to its litany every six months or so
<ubuntujenkins> I will have a google and see what comes up
<semioticrobotic> definitely let me know if you find anything ... heading out for a bit
<ubuntujenkins> ok i will do
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: you can remove the sound stuff, or things that wont be seen
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: or maybe you can make a DVD and not a CD
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: i have removed allot of stuff that will not been seen, but i can't take out sound as rhythambox needs it. i have made it a cd last time.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks for the suggestions
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: well, just trying to help :P
<ubuntujenkins> help is always welcome :D
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: there's no need for all of the installation slides in the slideshow, right?
<ubuntujenkins> no just the first one Ddorda
<Ddorda> you can remove them all but the first one thank :)
<Ddorda> or you already did? :P
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda:  and the screenshot of the "restart now" window
<ubuntujenkins> I haven't looked but I will remove them, what language is it?
 * ubuntujenkins starts the live cd build
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: are you busy?
<shadeslayer> ok um... idk but do you guys need screenshots of kubuntu for the manual?
<shadeslayer> im around everyday in #kubuntu-devel and #kubuntu... so just leave me a memoserv or ping me in one of those channels and we will have a chat :)
<shadeslayer> << Installing quickshot ;) >>
<shadeslayer> brb
<ubuntujenkins> semioticrobotic: This was the simplest set of instructions to make a multiboot live cd http://psychoticspoon.blogspot.com/2009/01/booting-multiple-livecds-from-single.html the only catch is you need a i368 computer
<semioticrobotic> ubuntujenkins: Great!  Thanks.  I'll give it a read.
<ubuntujenkins> there were plenty of other ways of doing it  some involved scripts, but i don't like using scripts if i don't know where they came from
<semioticrobotic> I agree
<semioticrobotic> and this does look very straightforward
<semioticrobotic> terminal commands so simple even I can handle them
<ubuntujenkins> I haven't had a go but it does look simple
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
<semioticrobotic> indeed
 * ubuntujenkins why do xorg-docs-core have to be installed for xorg to work ....
 * ubuntujenkins still needs to find room on the live cd someone made the language packs bigger
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: pong
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk the live cd doesn't fit as the language packs are too big can you look at http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/SOMETHING and see if we can remove anything else?
<ubuntujenkins> I have even got rid of some sound stuff and still kept rhythambox
<godbyk> nice.
<godbyk> how much space do we need?
<ubuntujenkins> 30mb when the cd is compressed
<godbyk> most of the things I'm seeing we don't need except that other apps depend on them (even though we're not using those features).
<godbyk> liks gvfs-fuse. we don't need it, but I'm sure nautilus or someone will balk if we try to remove it.
<ubuntujenkins> thats the trouble all the silly dependacies
<godbyk> what's whiptail?
<godbyk> can we kill friendly-recovery?
<ubuntujenkins> Displays user-friendly dialog boxes from shell scripts
<ubuntujenkins> gvfs=fuse can go
<godbyk> I thought zenity was for that.
<godbyk> cpp is still there. can't we kill that?
<godbyk> xorg-docs-core sounds like it might just be documentation
<godbyk> we can kill command-not-found
<ubuntujenkins> xorg docs can't   go xorg depends on it
<godbyk> bah!
<godbyk> half tempted to strip things out of the depends line of the deb control files. :-P
<godbyk> irqbalance?
<godbyk> are we showing off any mono-based apps?
<godbyk> Ddorda: The \eg command just expands to "e.g.".  So you can remove that command and replace it with a translation if you need to.  Or if you want, you can tell me how "e.g." appears in your language and I can translate the command itself so you don't have to mess with it.
<ubuntujenkins> yep tomboy and f-spot
<Ddorda> godbyk: I would love if you do
<godbyk> thorwil: I haven't got back to the title pages yet.  I didn't know if you wanted to try a couple translations by hand using inkscape (so we could see if it can handle the opentype language features we'd need).
<Ddorda> godbyk: another thing, have a look at the Hebrew version, its all messy
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: rats! 'cause that'd save us quite a bit of space, I think.
<godbyk> Ddorda: yeah, I need to fix the layout for LTR languages.
<thorwil> godbyk: do you have a tough case at hand?
<ubuntujenkins> I know i have two channels giving suggestions and we haven't lost much ( godbyk )
<godbyk> Ddorda: Can you email the translation for "e.g." to me at <kevin@ubuntu-manual.org>?
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: godbyk and i are trying to free up space on the quickshot live cd
<Ddorda> godbyk: just the word?
<Ddorda> godbyk: well, I wish I could, for some reason gmail won't load to me
<Ddorda> for the last few hours
<godbyk> thorwil: let me see if I can find one for you.
<godbyk> Ddorda: Sure. You could try pasting it here, but I don't know how well irc and xchat handle unicode on my end.
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: have you managed to do all of your screenshots?
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: it's not me doing the screenshots, but we have 37 of them already
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: do you know who is?
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: yes, but he's not in the IRC a lot
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: want me to tell him something?
<godbyk> thorwil: let me try the arabic real quick. one moment.
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: I was just wondering of he was around, don't worry.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: If we can aprove all of the done screenshots we cna remove those language form the cd
<Ddorda> godbyk: btw, for some reason it doesn't show the screenshots in the Hebrew manual
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: they will not show for a while yet
<ubuntujenkins> I am yet to add them to the branch and aprove them
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: I will try to get some people to screenshot what left
<ubuntujenkins> that would be good thanks Ddorda
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: any other thoughts of sutff to remove or shall i make it two cds?
<godbyk> I can rattle some packages off and you can check if they're dependencies for anything.
<godbyk> iputils-ping
<godbyk> fancontrol
<godbyk> file
<godbyk> xfonts-mathml
<godbyk> smartdimmer
<godbyk> time
<godbyk> pkg-config
<godbyk> fuse-utils
<godbyk> lzma
<godbyk> pcmciautils
<godbyk> dmsetup?
<godbyk> os-prober
<godbyk> pptp-linux
<godbyk> logrotate
<godbyk> telnet
<godbyk> ltrace
<godbyk> dc
<godbyk> radeontool
<godbyk> anacron
<godbyk> actually, I'm starting at the small end, aren't I? let me start with the big ones.
<godbyk> cpp-4.4
<godbyk> gnome-system-monitor
<godbyk> erlang-base
<godbyk> ubuntu-wallpapers
<godbyk> zenity
<godbyk> gcc-4.4
<godbyk> gsfonts
<godbyk> man-db
<godbyk> command-not-found-data
<godbyk> tar
<godbyk> wget
<godbyk> nano
<godbyk> make
<godbyk> grep
<godbyk> jfsutils
<godbyk> ppp
<godbyk> aptdaemon?
<godbyk> screen
<godbyk> sed
<godbyk> ...and he's gone. :)
<thorwil> godbyk: going, too, but feel free to send me an email regarding the title translation test
<ubuntujenkins> ok sorry i disapeared my laptop overheated i missed anything after 20.25 have i missed anything aimed at me?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: the huge list of packages I was barfing out? :)
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk did you say anything to me after 20.25? I lost my laptop over heated it doesn't like these live cds
<godbyk> my internet is up and down today, too.  I'm going to have to get a tech out here and make sure they really fix it this time.
<godbyk> you said: "godbyk: any other thoughts of sutff to remove or shall i make it two cds?" at :34
<godbyk> and then from :35 to :43, I listed a bunch of packages.
<ubuntujenkins> I din't know if anyone could read that. I missed all the packages
<godbyk> you drop offline at :42.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I can PM them to you if you want.
<ubuntujenkins_> ok i missed anything after <godbyk> you drop offline at :42
<ubuntujenkins_> back on wired now so it should be better
<ubuntujenkins> can you list all the packages again please godbyk
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I can PM them to you if you want.
<ubuntujenkins> that would be good thanks
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you please delete http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/03-searchbar-firefox@es@1270289264.png and http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/04-bluetooth-left-click@es@1270174368.png
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: sure
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: done
<godbyk> any others?
<ubuntujenkins> not sure at the moment i have to open each one indvidually
<godbyk> if we don't, we should make a nice admin web interface for reviewing screenshots.
<ubuntujenkins> I think that is in th eplan
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you please remove these as well http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/01-who-are-you@de@1270292301.png http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/02-blank-desktop@en@1270485732.png http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/03-connection-information@pt@1270429614.png
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: done
<ubuntujenkins> thanks, also can you please send me the server details so that when i finish the cd in the morning I can upload it.
<godbyk> I'll email them to you.  Which address should I send them to?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: email sent.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> right I am off to bed, trying to get a better sleeping pattern. night all o/
<ubuntujenkins> thansk for you help godbyk
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: don't forget to bump the version number. :)
<godbyk> no problem.
<godbyk> g'night!
<ubuntujenkins> I have bumped the version numer
<dutchie> o/.
<godbyk> Hey, dutchie. how goes it?
<dutchie> not bad
<dutchie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko
<dutchie> possibly entirely OT, but fun
<godbyk> dutchie: awesome! :)
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-06
<Ddorda> have you seen this: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/now-that-looks-familiar-buttons-switch.html ? new screenshots now =\
<donri> Someone already wrote a script to fix any screenshots. :)
<donri> I think this order is good, no button will ever move. Like, I don't think any window has only close and maximize buttons.
<Ddorda> donri: I hope it will work with RTL languages too
<donri> Is RTL any different WRT buttons?
<Ddorda> donri: indeed, we have the buttons in the right now
<donri> You used to have them on the left?
<Ddorda> donri: right
<donri> Interesting. :)
<Ddorda> donri: we also have the menus in the right.
<Ddorda> donri: yea, complicated language. we're the most buggy language
<donri> Heh.
<donri> What language would that be?
<Ddorda> Hebrew
<donri> Ah.
<Ddorda> Arabic suppose to have the same bugs, but they almost don't translate, so I guess it's less buggy on English :P
<Ddorda> well, ill be back later, cya :D
<donri> Bye.
<humphreybc> anyone know if Luke is going to build a new quickshot CD image anytime soon?
<godbyk> I think he's working on it.
<godbyk> Trying to make enough space to get all the language packs on it.
<humphreybc> yeah he emailed me aboug that
<humphreybc> we're switching it to a DVD
<humphreybc> he's run out of packages to remove
<godbyk> humphreybc: we need to branch the manual so I can start jamming on formatting the English manual.
<humphreybc> yeah... thought that was meant to happen while I was away?
<humphreybc> (so i don't have to do it!)
<humphreybc> as an aside, "about a bug" = "aboug"
<godbyk> sweet. that'll simplify things.
<humphreybc> i have no idea how to branch things
<godbyk> me neither.
<humphreybc> i'll need to get someone else to help us
<humphreybc> like thumper
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> surely dutchie can work it out
<humphreybc> he seems to be good at all these miscellaneous things
<godbyk> I'd try it, but I fear somehow screwing up the translations.
<humphreybc> yeah
<thumper> humphreybc: what is your question?
<humphreybc> hey tim
<humphreybc> we need to branch some stuff. godbyk will be able to explain it better
<godbyk> Hey, thumper.
<godbyk> we need to branch the manual a bit.
<godbyk> I need one branch that's stable for the translators to continue working against.  They've been working against main, but we need to move that work to a new branch.
<godbyk> I need a second branch that I can use to tidy up the formatting of the first edition of the English manual.
<godbyk> Finally, we'll want the main branch to be available for everyone to continue working on for a second edition.
<thumper> and the formatting for the first edition you want different from the one the translators use
<thumper> ?
<godbyk> thumper: this is outlined a bit better here: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg01231.html
<godbyk> thumper: yeah.
<godbyk> basically, I'm going to be tweaking the english edition, but I don't want my string changes to affect the translations.
<humphreybc> yeah so we need to duplicate what we have now by three... right?
<humphreybc> one of them will be the 1st edition in english
<humphreybc> one of them will be the second edition, in english
<humphreybc> and the last one will be the one for the translators to work off..
<humphreybc> is that rihgt?
<humphreybc> right*
<godbyk> humphreybc: yep, pretty much.
<thumper> ok, what I'm going to suggest may or may not screw up the translations...
<thumper> not sure
<thumper> you want to create two more series
<thumper> although which two is the big question
<godbyk> right.
<godbyk> I'd love to have one of the new series be for the translators, but I don't know how to safely (and transparently) migrate them to the new series.
<thumper> to avoid as much messing around with translations as possible, I suggest making "lucid-english" and "mavrick-english"
<thumper> then make the development focus mavrick-english
<godbyk> that way the current main branch/trunk could be used for 2nd edition and 10.10 work.
<thumper> that way trunk becomes mavrick
<thumper> and the translations don't get touched
<godbyk> okay
<godbyk> that sounds safest.
 * thumper reboots server, so will disappear for a bit
<godbyk> can we set it so that "bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual" pull the maverick-english branch (or whichever branch we prefer at the time)?
<humphreybc> godbyk: I have a feeling that bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual will pull whatever is development focus
<godbyk> humphreybc: as long as we can set that, I'm okay with it.
<humphreybc> yeah
<godbyk> we'll need to update our instructions to authors/editors/translators/etc., to reflect these changes.
<thumper> godbyk: yes, by making mavrick-english the development series for the project lp:ubuntu-manual will get that one
<godbyk> thumper: cool. that'll work then.
<godbyk> thumper: is the branching something that you can do quickly? or can you point me to the docs so I can figure it out?  (specifically, how not to disrupt the current translations.)  thanks!
<thumper> godbyk: just push to two new branches
<thumper> godbyk: those will be your new series branches
<godbyk> thumper: Okay. Do I have to do anything for the translations?
<thumper> godbyk: you shouldn't have to do anything
<godbyk> 'kay.
<humphreybc> so i've noticed screenshots are making fairly good progress
<humphreybc> but translations not so much?
<godbyk> humphreybc: I haven't been tracking the translations progress too closely.
<godbyk> are they busy translating software strings instead of our docs?
<godbyk> or is there no interest in undertaking the translation of a huge book?
<humphreybc> not sure
<humphreybc> i think it's just something that's going to take ages
<donri> I tried to do some translating but it starts out by throwing loads of technical and latex-heavy glossary definitions at you.
<godbyk> donri: that's true. unfortunately, those have to be created before the document compiles. (it'll fail if you reference a glossary entry that doesn't exist yet.)
<donri> Heh.
<godbyk> donri: Can you think of ways we could make it easier for translators?
<donri> I did like, six glossary entries, had to fix some up to three times because I did it wrong, then my mind was all ADHD-fuzzy.
<humphreybc> lol
<donri> Well, better instructions regarding LaTeX could help.
<godbyk> (We try to make it easy for everyone to help out, from pointing out bugs, to writing content, to translating.)
<humphreybc> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<humphreybc> we could probably make it clearer about latex for the translators
<humphreybc> maybe we should invest some time into po4a in the future
<humphreybc> problem is it's bloody hard to get in touch with all the translators
<godbyk> donri: Have you see the latex-handout.pdf file?
<donri> Nope.
<godbyk> let me toss it up on the website and give you a link.  one sec.
<humphreybc> godbyk, have you mailed that to the list?
<godbyk> humphreybc: I think I have a few times.
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> donri: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
<humphreybc> it's so hard to get ahold of the translators
<godbyk> donri: Chapter 4 should be helpful with translating the LaTeX stuff.
<godbyk> Chapter 3 will tell you what the commands mean.
<godbyk> humphreybc: Perhaps we should compose an 'everything you need to know to get started translating the manual' email or something.
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> but how many translators actually subscribe to the list?
<godbyk> no clue
<humphreybc> i don't think it's that many
<humphreybc> which makes it very hard to talk to them
<humphreybc> perhaps something that needs to be worked on in launchpad
<humphreybc> maybe we need some popup that displays before they start translating
<godbyk> Can we add any text to the top of this page? https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<donri> I think you can do that. I got a notice from the "Ubuntu Swedish translation team" or something like that.
<donri> "Before translating, be sure to go through Ubuntu Swedish Translators guidelines." on the top.
<humphreybc> no we can't
<humphreybc> it's something to talk about with the launchpad developers
<godbyk> yeah, tell them we want per-project (or per-branch) translation instructions.
<humphreybc> thumper, you hear that? ;)
<godbyk> donri: Does that style-guide.pdf file look like it addresses the questions you had about LaTeX and translations?  If not, please let me know. It's definitely a work-in-progress.
<donri> I didn't really have questions; I was later told I was doing it wrong. That PDF does show that, in deed. :)
<donri> Specifically, I was translating the \newglossaryitem{this}.
<godbyk> Ah, yeah.
<donri> When you just drop in to Launchpad, and don't really know LaTeX, it's easy to guess what to translate, but also easy to guess wrong, apparently.
<godbyk> The 'this' is used as a label and LaTeX needs it to be stupidly simple.  Plain ASCII chars, almost no punctuation, etc.
<donri> Yea, I understand. :)
<godbyk> I think one of them has a space in it in the English version, but that really shouldn't be there either, I don't think.
<donri> It's saner probably, anyway, because you avoid confusion of translating the ID and using different translations throughout.
<godbyk> When I first dropped it into launchpad, the translators were translating the \menu and \then commands, which LaTeX *really* got irked about. :)
<donri> Heh.
<donri> I could only suggest translations, I hope the person to accept them gets which ones to use.
<donri> E.g. either they use the newest or they see which is right.
<donri> I can't remove suggestions. :(
<godbyk> I'm not sure how to handle editing and bugs/errors in the translations, either.
<humphreybc> :S
<humphreybc> could be quite hectic
<godbyk> I pretty much just have to assume that whatever translations are provided are, in fact, correct.
<godbyk> humphreybc: Apparently I have to be the project's owner or driver to create a new series.
<humphreybc> oh really
<humphreybc> so i have to do that
<humphreybc> what do i need to name it?
<godbyk> Well, let's see..
<humphreybc> Name, summary, branch and release URL patter
<humphreybc> pattern, even
<godbyk> we'll need a 10.04-e1 and a 10.04-e2 (or lucid instead of 10.04 if you like)
<godbyk> and main will end up as 10.10 at some point.
<godbyk> humphreybc: oh! now I see the "Register a series" link.
<godbyk> I wasn't looking far enough down the page.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> so you can do it?
<godbyk> seems so.
<godbyk> do you think we should use 10.04 or lucid?
<humphreybc> use lucid
 * donri thinks the names are cute but the numbers more clear.
<humphreybc> development names are way better
<artnay> currently some of the sentences at http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/ are not translatable at launchpad. kevin has done some updates but those are mostly removing some obsolete sentences
<artnay> and btw, is there some sort of deadline for translations?
<humphreybc> artnay: yeah, the RC release on the 21st is a rough deadline
<godbyk> 'kay. I'll be a few minutes while I set these series and branches up.
<artnay> humphreybc: umh, so there's no possibility to continue translation after lucid has been released?
<godbyk> artnay: I haven't been updating the test.ubuntu-manual.org translations lately.  I'll try to do that in a bit.
<godbyk> artnay: by all means continue translating. :)
<godbyk> we'll be releasing the translated manuals as they're finished.
<humphreybc> artnay: oh yes, definitely
<godbyk> if you'd like your translation to be released at the same time as the English manual, that's the deadline to aim for, though.
<humphreybc> yup
<godbyk> (you'll catch the most fanfare that way.)
<donri> Translations probably will catch up better by 10.10, as I guess that manual will greatly be based on the current?
<artnay> I mentioned this project at our LoCo meeting two days ago. some people were quite interested in helping with the translation -- but we're not sure if we're able to translate it all before the release
<donri> Launchpad can't currently suggest much. Whole sentences don't exist anywhere else this way.
<humphreybc> donri: more or less but there are a lot of cool things going to be happening for 10.10
<donri> Sure, but still.
<artnay> donri: some come from ubuntu-docs but basically it has to be done from scratch
<donri> What happened to website translations?
<godbyk> humphreybc: okay, I've created a couple new series.
<artnay> donri: some were removed obviously
<godbyk> Now I guess people need to bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-2e to start working on the second edition or something.
<donri> But there's no language selection anymore?
<donri> Which would be good, if it would autodetect language instead. But only English.
<godbyk> donri: I think it should autodetect.
<godbyk> Does it not?
<donri> Not for me.
<godbyk> I'll take a look at it sometime.
<godbyk> (too many things on my plate right this sec.)
<donri> Sure.
<humphreybc> i've got to head off
<humphreybc> see ya'll later
<artnay> I can confirm that, http://ubuntu-manual.org/ doesn't autodetect browser language (or does not comply) so the page is displayed in English
<godbyk> artnay: I think the ubuntu-manual.org doesn't auto-detect.  I think you have to manually select there.
<godbyk> artnay: but I thought that test.ubuntu-manual.org was supposed to autodetect.  I may be wrong, though.
<artnay> godbyk: but there's no selection. test site has but the language is in English (if it bothers)
<artnay> I mean the languages are in English... they could be translated just like what has been done with the live CD's language selection
<donri> godbyk, test site seems to autodetect properly.
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<godbyk> cool.
<godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins
<godbyk> I'm chatting with the launchpad translator guys.  Trying to figure out how to make translating our manual easier.
<ubuntujenkins> nice sounds like a good idea
<godbyk> sadly, they've basically said, 'it doesn't do that. but the source is GPL, hint, hint.'
<godbyk> how do you feel about working on another side project, ubuntujenkins? :)
<ubuntujenkins> what are we trying to achive?
<ubuntujenkins> I will give anything a go. what language is it in?
 * ubuntujenkins only knows python vaguely but is willing to learn
<godbyk> I'm not sure what Launchpad is written in.
<ubuntujenkins> wow getting it means setting up the launchpad site on your computer
<godbyk> lovely.
<godbyk> One of the complaints I've had from translators is that whenever we fix a typo, they have to retranslate the entire paragraph.
<godbyk> So I was chatting with the launchpad translation devs about how to improve that.
<ubuntujenkins> which channel is this logged in? It  could be some interestingly hard work.
<godbyk> It was in #launchpad.
<godbyk> started just over an hour ago.
<ubuntujenkins> ok i will have a look
<godbyk> Hey, meho_r.  I incorporated most of your suggestions into this first edition of the manual.  If you'd like to continue your edits, I'll look at them for the second edition.
<meho_r> Hi, godbyk. So, fist ed. is frozen, no more changes?
<godbyk> meho_r: correct. it's frozen so the translators can start doing their thing.
<godbyk> we're going to continue editing for the second edition.
<meho_r> when is the 2nd ed. due?
<godbyk> we'll be adding some content that we didn't have time to finish writing as well.
<godbyk> no deadlines for the second edition yet.
<godbyk> presumably before 10.10 is released. ;-)
<meho_r> Hehe, OK
<meho_r> that's a lot of time then
<godbyk> so it's not a huge rush for the second edition yet. I just wanted to let you know if you were bored and wanted to edit some more to feel free.
<meho_r> Not actually bored, I hardly find time for absolutely anything beside job+study
<meho_r> but I will find some for manual ;)
<meho_r> how large the branch is? Should it be more useful to do edit directly or this way, in .pdf?
<godbyk> The current branch is about 160 MB to download.
<godbyk> Most of that is the website, translations, images, and other files that you don't *really* need.
<ubuntujenkins> we could do with giving the website its own branch
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I agree.
<godbyk> In fact, I'll see if I can set that up.
<godbyk> Actually, I'll do that one tomorrow. :)
<ubuntujenkins> we should warn daker first
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> and I'll need to be awake enough to change things around on the web server, too.
<ubuntujenkins> is it launchpad that works out the diffs between the two potfiles?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: launchpad doesn't do that at all.  that's the bit I'm interested in exploring.
<godbyk> launchpad only looks at the current pot file.
<godbyk> it doesn't do any comparison at all.
<ubuntujenkins> I think its the comparison that we need to look at
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: agreed.
<ubuntujenkins> how is the pot generated?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: The pot is generated (in our case) using po4a.
<ubuntujenkins> right po4a it is
 * ubuntujenkins goes to look for the source
<godbyk> Prepare yourself: it's perl.
<meho_r> godbyk, I think I'll continue to work on .pdf for now ;) Any particular version or the one from ubuntu-manual.org will do?
<ubuntujenkins> nice another language to learn
<godbyk> meho_r: you can grab the one from the website for now.  it should be ubuntu-manual-beta.pdf.
<meho_r> godbyk, OK, will do. BTW, what about style guide? Is it finished?
<godbyk> meho_r: it's not finished, but what I've got so far is at http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
<godbyk> I'll continue to work on it and upload revisions to that same url.  so you may wish to check back periodically.
<godbyk> meho_r: if you have suggestions for the style guide, feel free to let me know, too.
<meho_r> Great, thanks.
<godbyk> it's currently a slightly modified handout I wrote about using LaTeX in our project.
<godbyk> so it's pretty heavy on the latex side and light on the style side right now.
<meho_r> :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I will look into it when i have more time, I am going to test the live cd and try and do some revision today.
<ubuntujenkins> be back in a nit
<ubuntujenkins> *bit
<godbyk> Okay, everyone. I'm off to bed. See you later!
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I hope your internet stays up for the next 4 hours, as i have started the upload.
<godbyk-android> It's a server in california, not my home internet
<ubuntujenkins> are thats ok then
<godbyk-android> Though it was offline a bit earlier for some reason.
<godbyk-android> Why is the upload so slow anyway?
<ubuntujenkins> I am at home and because of where i live the internet is slow. I did expect it to be allot quicker than it is. If i was at uni it would be a lot better
<ubuntujenkins> wow i have just speed tested my internet and it has got a whole lot slower since last time.
<danyR> good muorning everyone! i'm portuguese (portugal) Ubuntu Manual translataor and i've checked out the builds page and today's build failed
<danyR> I've checked the log and the error seems to be in a specific string, but all seems to be correctly translation. help?
<danyR> correctly translated*
<ubuntujenkins> danyR: just going to have a look and see if i can fix it
<danyR> ubuntujenkins: thanks :)
<ubuntujenkins> danyR: I have found one error but as it is in spanish i don't know where the margin note ends where should I put the missing } so that it all make sense ?
<ubuntujenkins> "\\marginnote{Embora graficamente modernos \\gls{ambientes de trabalho} "
<ubuntujenkins> "tenham geralmente substituÃ­do os primeiros sistemas operativos baseados na "
<ubuntujenkins> "linha de comando, esta pode ainda ser uma rÃ¡pida e eficiente forma de se "
<ubuntujenkins> "realizarem muitas tarefas. Veja \\chaplink{ch:command-line} para mais "
<ubuntujenkins> "informaÃ§Ã£o, e \\chaplink{ch:the-ubuntu-desktop} para aprender mais sobre o \\"
<ubuntujenkins> "gls{GNOME} e outros ambientes de trabalho."
<danyR> ubuntujenkins: portuguese. That was the string I've checked, but it all seemed ok
<danyR> let me double-check
<ubuntujenkins> sorry portuguese there is a missing  } in it
<ubuntujenkins> it belongs to the first \marginnote
<danyR> ubuntujenkins: my bad, it was me who translated it.
<ubuntujenkins> don't worry where does it need to go?
<danyR> so the } is right after the full stop
<danyR> last one
<ubuntujenkins> so it should be ....
<ubuntujenkins> "\\marginnote{Embora graficamente modernos \\gls{ambientes de trabalho} "
<ubuntujenkins> <ubuntujenkins> "tenham geralmente substituÃ­do os primeiros sistemas operativos baseados na "
<ubuntujenkins> <ubuntujenkins> "linha de comando, esta pode ainda ser uma rÃ¡pida e eficiente forma de se "
<ubuntujenkins> <ubuntujenkins> "realizarem muitas tarefas. Veja \\chaplink{ch:command-line} para mais "
<ubuntujenkins> <ubuntujenkins> "informaÃ§Ã£o, e \\chaplink{ch:the-ubuntu-desktop} para aprender mais sobre o \\"
<ubuntujenkins> <ubuntujenkins> "gls{GNOME} e outros ambientes de trabalho.}"
<danyR> yep
<danyR> I've corrected the string
<ubuntujenkins> I will try and fix the other errors now
<danyR> ubuntujenkins: it there's something i can help with... :)
<ubuntujenkins> I will find out in a second, just need to work out what the error is an if i can solve it
<ubuntujenkins> danyR: I can't fix the other errors, but the manual now builds a full length version is here http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/ubuntu-manual-pt.pdf  . I will ask the latex expert when he is awake, as i think they are glossary  related.
<danyR> ubuntujenkins: tks, tks, tks. we still have some issues to figure out, mainly related with the chapter linking, but we'll sort that out between the translatores
<danyR> translators*
<ubuntujenkins> ok, If you have any laytex questions it is better to ask in the utc evening then our expert is awake.
<danyR> ubuntujenkins: ok, thanks again.
<ubuntujenkins> no problem it will hopefully get updated on the server by tomorrow
<ubuntujenkins> I  don't have control of the sever
<artnay> What is Linux? section never answers the question (too late for bug raport, eh?)
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: file a bug so that it can be included in lucid edition 2
<popey> uhm
<popey> the bugs link on the site seems broken
<ubuntujenkins> what links popey
<popey> http://ubuntu-manual.org/?bugs
<popey> http://ubuntu-manual.org/bugs
<popey> from the front page
<popey> "Submit any bugs or errata here."
<ubuntujenkins> very strange popey I am not sure where it is suppose to link to I will get the right person t o fix it when they wake up, please file your bug here https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<ubuntujenkins> I asume it is a bug with the manual and not quickshot
<popey> i didnt have a bug to file initially, i was just about to read the latest version and a) see if bugs I have previously filed have been addressed, and b) file new ones
<popey> its frustrating not being able to see if my bugs are progressing
<popey> given the build hasn't been updated since 729 on 31/3/10
<ubuntujenkins> popey: It will not have changed since then as that was the writing freeze but this is the latest build http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2697891/main.pdf
<popey> 404
<ubuntujenkins> ok give it a second it might not have uploaded
<popey> still nothing ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> I will ping you when it works popey I am uploading some stuff to the manual server as well and my internet is slow at home
 * ubuntujenkins uploading the live cd takes 4 hours
<ubuntujenkins> thats how slow the internet is
<ubuntujenkins> popey: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/main.pdf (new link i changed the dropbox that it was in)
<popey> thanks
<popey> has the licensing been worked out?
<ubuntujenkins> popey: it has the finla e-mail on it was
<ubuntujenkins> An update on my conversation with Diane about license translations. The Creative Commons acknowledges the lack of linguistically translated versions of the manual -- their process for porting to specific jurisdictions is actually to first linguistically translate, and then adapt to the jurisdiction's laws.
<ubuntujenkins> Diane will work to set up a method for receiving and tracking unofficial linguistic translations of the manual -- and should have something for us within a week or so. Before the release of this manual, we may be able to get access to some translations of the unported license for some of the languages. For other languages, we would include the English version and a link to a (soon to be established) page th
<ubuntujenkins> at will list multilingual versions in development.
<ubuntujenkins> On our side, we will commit to having the CC versions of the translations to be the official ones (meaning that if we help with the translations, we submit our changes to CC and have them host it, and then copy the version that they host). We will also commit to including the latest versions of the licenses whenever we publish an edition. I think these are fair constraints, since it improves the likelihood
<ubuntujenkins> that the license will be considered valid by some jurisdiction if challenged.
 * ubuntujenkins sorry for the spam
<popey> ubuntujenkins: i was more thinking about the compatibility between the license used by U-M and the license used by the documentation wiki
<popey> given chunks of the documentation wiki have been copy/pasted into the manual
<ubuntujenkins> popey I have no clue on that at all, ben hasn't replied to the e-mail on it yet.
<popey> yeah, thats what's worrying me
<ubuntujenkins> lets hope it all gets sorted, we are not popular with the docs team anyway so this doesn't help
<popey> INDEED
<popey> er -caps
<ubuntujenkins> anyone in here speak dutch?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk, godbyk its on the server :-)
<ubuntujenkins> the channel is very quite today
<thorwil> QUITE, OH YES!
 * thorwil hunts for dinner
<titeuf_87> Hey ubuntujenkins, did you take the Dutch screenshots?
<ubuntujenkins> no titeuf_87 I was reviewing them, and noticed they looked odd
<ubuntujenkins> the majority of them are all in arabic when they should be dutch
<titeuf_87> A quick google tells me that people in Aruba also speak Dutch, I think that locale was selected for making the screenshots.
<ubuntujenkins> the nl_AW (aruba) local causes quickshot to crash,
<titeuf_87> Yup, looking at that now.
<ubuntujenkins> I don't understand how the arabic ones ended up being labled as nl?
<titeuf_87> I just tried logging in with an user using the nl_AW locale and it looks like standard Dutch.
<titeuf_87> I also can't simulate your error that you have, quickshot seems to run just fine here using that language.
<ubuntujenkins> strange you can't get that error  i ran it a couple of times to check. your not auto launching quickshot are you?
<ubuntujenkins> *can
<titeuf_87> I'm not.
<ubuntujenkins> must be me then.
<titeuf_87> Although I did try on Karmic. Give me a little bit to install Lucid in virtualbox and I'll see if that changes things.
<ubuntujenkins> may be its the lucid.
<Red_HamsterX> I just added a comemnt on the nl_AW thing.
<Red_HamsterX> Also, yes, Aruba is a mix of Dutch and English.
<Red_HamsterX> (My stepfather's from there)
<titeuf_87> On karmic, the exact same thing works for me here.
<ubuntujenkins> wheres the commet i don't see it
<ubuntujenkins> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/554861
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,Confirmed]
<titeuf_87> It's on that one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/556532
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 556532 in quickshot "screenshots don't have the correct language code" [Undecided,New]
<Red_HamsterX> It might take a few minutes to appear.
<Red_HamsterX> Launchpad seems to collect all changes so it only pushes out a single e-mail.
<ubuntujenkins> ok read it on the other bug, any idea why the screenshots are being labeld with the wrong language code?
<ubuntujenkins> I must be a lucid thing
<Red_HamsterX> I can't see anything that would make our code go from nl_AW to ar_*.
<ubuntujenkins> stuff isd
<Red_HamsterX> AW != AR, so that can't be it.
<ubuntujenkins> stuff is being taken in an ar_* but showing as nl on screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org
<Red_HamsterX> My tests uploaded to ar just fine, though...
<Red_HamsterX> Though, granted, that was with the PPA.
<Red_HamsterX> I only tested he and de from the LiveCD.
<ubuntujenkins> all of the versions should be the same the only changes since are server based
 * Red_HamsterX boots into ar to check what Python says.
<ubuntujenkins> new live cd will be up today but it has to be put on a usb/dvd its just to big
<Ddorda> is there a Live CD with quickshot, that has the latest theme update?
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: the line i just wrote, you can still take them with the old cd. I am waiting for godby-k to wake up to update the server
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: I don't have a DVD, and it's a pentium 2, so no boot from USB
<Ddorda> :(
<ubuntujenkins> I thought it might be a problem, we ran out of stuff to remove form the cd. More programs got translated. Just use the old cd as we have a work around to fix those images
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: my friend has a DVD, he will make the screenshots as soon as you'll upload the image
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks Ddorda I will let you know when it is uploaded it is only 19mb bigger than a cd
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, how much space would you need to free?
<Red_HamsterX> Ah.
<ubuntujenkins> its very anoying we have removed anything and everything possible i had godby-k  and all of #ubuntu-uk hunting space out
<ubuntujenkins> I checked every screenshot still works and i did some for tamil
<titeuf_87> Do you actually put all the language packs on the cd too?
<ubuntujenkins> all the ones we translate to
<titeuf_87> Maybe skip a single language and let people install that from the net?
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, ufw, tk8.4, telnet, whois, tcpdump, tcpd, tcl8.4, popularity-contest, ntfsprogs...
<ubuntujenkins> might do that next time, It takes 4 hours for me to upload it and i did it this morning. it would be anoying if you didn't do all the screenshots in one go
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: which list are you looking at?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, wait. That'd be from an older version.
<Red_HamsterX> Never mind.
<ubuntujenkins> and so much stuff is down as a dependency of something or other its insane
<ubuntujenkins> off topic but how do you tell if a cron job has run?
<Red_HamsterX> It should send mail to its owner.
<Red_HamsterX> Type 'mail' and see if naything comes up.
<ubuntujenkins> nothing came up "No mail......"
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe it only sends in the event of a problem, or maybe it's different under Ubuntu.
<Red_HamsterX> You could make your script write a line to some file.
<ubuntujenkins> just doing that now
<ubuntujenkins> I thought off it as you typed it
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<titeuf_87> Bleh, virtualbox doesn't want to boot lucid :(
<titeuf_87> Or if it does, it certainly takes longer than 10 minutes for it which seems horribly slow.
<ubuntujenkins> I have no problems with lucid in virtual box, booting our live cd anyway. I have lucid on my main machine
<thorwil> unbelievable. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/556153
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 556153 in ubuntu-manual "Title should include LTS " [Undecided,New]
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk:  ping
<godbyk> thorwil: I know. Can you verify if that's true or not?
<godbyk> thorwil: Also, have you had a chance to test inkscape with the arabic text?
<thorwil> godbyk: had a very busy day ... have to do that now
<godbyk> thorwil: no problem. just curious.
<thorwil> godbyk: verify what? the simple fact that nobody thought of the "LTS" until now shows how damn clear and important it is ;)
<godbyk> thorwil: lol.  precisely.
<godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins. I'm copying over your ISO image now.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: was there anything else you needed?
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk , I have also made some fixes in a couple of po files. what is the best way to update everything with the fixes. Also whats wrong with the glossary in some languages
 * ubuntujenkins silly internet
<ubuntujenkins> pt and gl langauges i only inserted a } on each on
<ubuntujenkins> *one
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: the best way for now it to do the translation updates through launchpad.
<godbyk> I'm in the middle of moving translations to their own branch.
<thorwil> godbyk: what font did you use in that arabic pdf?
<godbyk> thorwil: Scheherazade from ttf-sil-scheherazade
<ubuntujenkins> ok godbyk I know one of them got updated by the person who asked for help this morning, let me know when you have moved them and i will update the translation there as well. Is there a quick way to find the string?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: as for the glossary entries, I'm guessing that they're translating the wrong parts, but I haven't looked yet.
<thorwil> dng, don't have that one
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: go to translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual, select the language, and there's a search box in the top right.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks i did noy know that :-)
<thorwil> godbyk: biolinum makes for a very different feel with this text, but i can copy-past either the good or bad examples from the pdf. they all look like the good example in inkscape
<ubuntujenkins> let me know when you have moved them
<thorwil> godbyk: except that 10.04 becomes 40.01
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: ISO image links have been updated.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins_: ISO image links have been updated.
<ubuntujenkins_> thanks does the website say dvd and not cd?
<godbyk> thorwil: I didn't think biolinum had arabic support.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I don't know if is mentions either.
<godbyk> lemme look
<godbyk> ah, says Live CD.
<godbyk> should it now be Live DVD?
<ubuntujenkins_> yes its 719mb
<ubuntujenkins_> please
<thorwil> arg! how the hell do i work with RTL text? selection behavior drives me crazy
<ubuntujenkins_> I will do the wiki
<godbyk> I just did the wiki
<godbyk> also pushed the website.
<komsas> one more change for a window buttons - http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/now-that-looks-familiar-buttons-switch.html
<godbyk> should appear online in 5 minutes or so.
<ubuntujenkins_> I changed the cd to dvd on the wiki
<thorwil> godbyk: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/c2f7e02e7a82a22add66793f0e1ab086
<godbyk> thorwil: nice!
<godbyk> what font is that?
<thorwil> godbyk: biolinum
<ubuntujenkins_> komsas, thanks for the heads up we were aware of that
<thorwil> godbyk: editing combined rtl/ltr text is wicked. with that said, i'm out, cya!
<komsas> ubuntujenkins_: after post, I found this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/553582
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 553582 in quickshot "the window buttons have changed order again" [High,In progress]
<ubuntujenkins_> that bug refers to the that change we were aware on friday
<godbyk> rats, he left.
<godbyk> biolinum doesn't have arabic. it's falling back on some other font.
<ubuntujenkins> I will tell him if i see him
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: the dvd is up
<ubuntujenkins> ok all the translations are up to date
<ubuntujenkins> as fare as errors are concerend
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: may I have a link please?
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot/ubuntu-manual-quickshot-i386-0.0.82.iso
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: thanks a lot
<ubuntujenkins> no problem thank you for your work in translating etc
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: have you seen we've done 20% in 2 days?
<ubuntujenkins> thats really good Ddorda, you will be done by end of next week
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: are you able to compile php soon please :-)
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: not really, I must get back to learning soon, and I don't think there will be a lot of afford from the LoCo without me since Im very pushy about this subject
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: you can still send e-mails in your break :-) . Good to see you are keen
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'll try to work on that today.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks, you are a busy person
<godbyk> definitely. :)
<Ddorda> yea, my LoCo was in a very bad status until the last month, so now we must prove our self, show we can get back to be on the top, I see this project as an huge chance so I do my best :D
 * ubuntujenkins looks into po4a
<dutchie> don't go there, it's 1500 lines of perl black magic
<ubuntujenkins> well kevin set me a challenge and it beats revision. I am asking a question on a channel with 5 people that has an moderator for 5 people
<godbyk> dutchie: I warned him about it already. :)
<godbyk> Hey, dutchie, do you know what "No import target selected yet." means?  How can I get this import queue to start processing? https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+imports
<godbyk> dutchie: I'm trying to move the translations over to the lucid-e1 series/branch so that main can be released for further development.
<dutchie> godbyk: I'd guess that it doesn't know what target it wants to import into
<godbyk> dutchie: any idea how I can fix it?
<dutchie> set an import target?
<dutchie> have you re-jigged the series then?
<dutchie> aha, yes
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie, godbyk can you please help me in oftc #po4a i am struggling to explain, there is a reason i am an engineer and not an english student.
<dutchie> don't expect me to help, I'm a mathematician
<godbyk> dutchie: yeah, I've created a couple new series.
 * ubuntujenkins man this is confusing
<godbyk> dutchie: I'm trying to get the translations pulled into the lucid-1e series so translators can work in that stable branch (i.e., string freeze).
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what are you discussing with the po4a folks?
<dutchie> godbyk: as long as everything in po/ stays intact, we haven't lost anything
<ubuntujenkins> if we need to look at po4a or not
<ubuntujenkins> is it launchpad dutchie ?
<godbyk> dutchie: right. the lucid-e1 branch is a copy of main.
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: it is
<dutchie> we could do with launchpad not dropping fuzzy translations
<ubuntujenkins> so we should be working on launchpad not po4a?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: can you point dutchie at the logs from my discussions with the launchpad translation devs?
<dutchie> I think what would be useful would be something where projects could choose whether they wanted to keep fuzzy tranlations or not
<godbyk> dutchie: they used to pull in fuzzy translations, but it was apparently worse than no pulling them in, so now they drop them.
<godbyk> dutchie: I agree completely.
<godbyk> I'm hoping that the fuzzy translations would be more useful for our longer strings (than they were for the typical short strings).
<dutchie> well, it is open source now...
<ubuntujenkins> do our po files give enought for the fuzzy strinsg all ready?
<dutchie> should do
<godbyk> I have no idea.
<godbyk> dutchie: that's what the launchpad devs told me, too. :)
<ubuntujenkins>  will look for that link in a second
<ubuntujenkins> all the guy in po4a has done is confuse me
<dutchie> I think po4a does fuzzy strings, but launchpad deletes them
<godbyk> dutchie: here are the chat logs with the launchpad devs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/04/06/%23launchpad.html
<ubuntujenkins> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/04/06/%23launchpad.html
<godbyk> launchpad ignores/deletes fuzzy strings, yes.
<ubuntujenkins> right ok now i understand back to launchpad source code
<godbyk> dutchie: any idea how I can set the import target so those translations process?
<ubuntujenkins> thansk for your help dutchie I was very confused
<dutchie> godbyk: it may work automagically
<dutchie> I'll have a look after I've looked through the logs from earlier
<godbyk> it's been that way for the past 10+ hours. how long should it take, typically?
<godbyk> k
<dutchie> right, I've changed the translation focus
<dutchie> I may have to do some reshuffling of my branches locally
<ubuntujenkins> I will get the launchpad source code once i am back at uni i don't want to try on this slow connection.
<godbyk> dutchie: for me it still says it's focused on main.
<dutchie> yeah, same here
<godbyk> Launchpad frightens and confuses me!
<dutchie> maybe it'll sync itself up in a bit
 * humphreybc is going to UDS
 * humphreybc is happy!
<godbyk> humphreybc: awesome!
<dutchie> I am also of the opinion that the website code should be moved out to its own branch
<godbyk> dutchie: I agree whole-heartedly.
<humphreybc> dutchie: absolutely, isn't that what we have ubuntu-manual-website for?
<godbyk> It's bloating our current branch.
<dutchie> and it's bloated enough as it is
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> my large PSD files probably don't help much
<humphreybc> anyway, it's breakfast time here but I thought i'd pop in and let ya'll know
 * humphreybc still thinks dutchie should harden up and fly from the UK 
<godbyk> humphreybc: you should pop onto the ubuntu-docs mailing list and let 'em know. they're trying to set up some docs sessions.
<dutchie> I don't even need to fly
<dutchie> train'd be far easier
<dutchie> iirc, it's not great timing
<godbyk> can we attend remotely via irc or video or something?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: hello i had a question for you i was more thinking about the compatibility between the license used by U-M and the license used by the documentation wiki given chunks of the documentation wiki have been copy/pasted into the manual
 * ubuntujenkins ^^^^ quotes popey
<ubuntujenkins> I was also interested
<dutchie> right, I'm going to give up watching this
<ubuntujenkins> the doc team have a uds discussion on their mailing list
<godbyk> I'm stepping away from translations and branches for a moment to compile php for quickshot.
<ubuntujenkins> yey !
<ubuntujenkins> thank you
<godbyk> someone smarter than me should really step in and figure out the translations and branches and all that and just tell me how it all works. :-)
 * dutchie sighs
 * godbyk smiles
<dutchie> this branch is not getting any smaller :(
<ubuntujenkins> I have worked out when they removed fuzzy translations from launchpad
<dutchie> [#########\          ]  54600KB   114KB/s | Fetching revisions:Inserting st
<ubuntujenkins> ^functionality
<godbyk> dutchie: yeah, it's 160 MB or more.
<dutchie> shame bzr's progress bar is utterly uninformative too
<ubuntujenkins> another thing for us to fix :P
<godbyk> It'd not just a matter of allowing fuzzy translations.  We also want to highlight the differences between the original English string and the current English string and the original (fuzzy match) translation, so the translators can easily see what's changed and adjust the translation accordingly.
<ubuntujenkins> once we allow fuzzy translations we can work on that
<dutchie> godbyk: I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to rename "main" to lucid-e1 or whether it would just break everything horribly
<godbyk> dutchie: good question.
<godbyk> that's what I was trying to ascertain from the launchpad guys last night.
<dutchie> especially as all the bugs/blueprints are targeted onto the main series
<godbyk> dutchie: well, those won't be lucid-e1 anyway.
<dutchie> why not/
<godbyk> they'll get bumped to either e2 or maverick.
<dutchie> oh, true
<dutchie> doing this from the start would have been far easier
<godbyk> e1 is a string freeze just for the translators.
<godbyk> I agree completely.
<godbyk> Unfortunately no one stepped forward to do it.
<godbyk> And I didn't know how.
<humphreybc> cough
<humphreybc> :P
<dutchie> I didn't even know the series thing existed
<godbyk> yeah, the launchpad guys filled me in on that last night, too.
<humphreybc> heh, we have the best launchpad knowledge ever
<godbyk> I also know nothing of bzr or DVCSs. :)
<godbyk> my other open source project uses svn and has me as the single developer, basically.  it's much easier. :)
<dutchie> the problem with DVCSes is that once a big file has been added, it's there forevermore, and has to be downloaded every time
<godbyk> I noticed that. Is there a way to purge the deleted files from the history or something?
<godbyk> We also have half a dozen websites in there.
<dutchie> I know
<antileet> hi! Any quickshot devs here?
<ubuntujenkins> antileet: whats up?
<antileet> ubuntujenkins, Hi! I'm writing a tool to make tutorials with screenshots. I wanted to know how you guys work with different languages in programs
<ubuntujenkins> antileet: did you send and e-mail to the doc team?
<antileet> like if I want to change the language of a program, is there a way I can do that unobrusively from within my program - through gconf2 perhaps?
<ubuntujenkins> we don't do that at the moment but.... let me find something
<godbyk> antileet: We set the LANG environment variable before we run the program. This causes the program to run in that language.
<ubuntujenkins> you can run a specific program like this
<ubuntujenkins> To list all languages do:
<ubuntujenkins> locale -a
<ubuntujenkins> To launch in another language do (example):
<ubuntujenkins> LANG=fr_CA.utf8 cheese
<godbyk> antileet: If you're taking screenshots of the entire desktop, however, you need to set the language and then log out and back in again for it to take effect desktop-wide.
<antileet> ubuntujenkins, Yeah. I did. The tutorial creation app
<antileet> I tried setting an environment variable but it didn't seem to work
<antileet> do I have to install seperate language packs or something?
<ubuntujenkins> antileet: as go-dbyk said
<godbyk> antileet: you will need to install the language packs for each of the languages you wish to see.
<ubuntujenkins> antileet: yes you have to insatall alll of the language packs
 * ubuntujenkins godbyk is a faster typer
<godbyk> antileet: don't forget the language-pack-gnome-* packages.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what's the function name that you want to use that requires me to recompile php?  (so I can read the docs and see what I need to compile in)
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX!
<antileet_> ubuntujenkins, So I have to specify the encoding too everytime I set the LANG env variable?
<humphreybc> hey ubuntujenkins are you planning on making another quickshot CD/DVD soon?
<antileet_> Is there a nice list with the real language names and the lang codes I can use to populate my combo box
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: its on the website
<humphreybc> on DVD?
<humphreybc> so the one I have is a bit old?
<ubuntujenkins> 719mb
<ubuntujenkins> nnot hat old humphreybc
<humphreybc> cute
<humphreybc> is it going to be the end of the world if I burn 0.08?
<humphreybc> which is 696mb
<ubuntujenkins> antileet_: to set the whole desktop you have to log out and back in. you can do indvidual programs, look at the python-pybabel module that is what we are using for proper language names but its not ideal
<antileet_> Okay. I'll try it out
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: it does mean a bit more work as the window buttons change. in the new version. we have a script to change the buttons in the others but it will be a bit of work double checking the right ones change
<antileet_> Btw, just read the ubuntu manual now. It's fantastic :) Wish it was around when I started out in '07
<godbyk> have they updated the theme yet to reflect the new button order?
<ubuntujenkins> yes godbyk thats in the new cd
<dutchie> hmm
<ubuntujenkins> antileet_: 2007? it only started in 2009
<dutchie> godbyk: did you work out whether or not renaming main was a good idea?
<ubuntujenkins> antileet_: you cna start helping noe
<godbyk> dutchie: I haven't given it any other thought yet. if we rename main, it should probably be come either lucid-e2 or maverick.
<godbyk> the translations should be in their own branch tucked away from all harm.
<antileet_> ubuntujenkins, If it was around, getting started with ubuntu might've been a little easier. And I will start contributing to quickshot really soon. It seems awesome
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: it sounds like pybabel is causing some problems. do we need to fix bugs in it or find a replacement or something?
<ubuntujenkins> i see, we have BIG plans for the next release it was a bit of a get it done for this release. The next release is going to be great
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I am unsure we may need to update it/fix it a bit, yet to look.
<godbyk> 'kay.
<ubuntujenkins> we have a strange bug where the screenshots are being given the wrong langauge code
<ubuntujenkins> whats my launchpad login?
<titeuf_87> That's not a pybabel bug though.
<ubuntujenkins> no but its strange, do we know how it is caused?
<titeuf_87> Only bug in there we've hit is that it doesn't support some locales.
<ubuntujenkins> we can update the language/locals
<titeuf_87> No idea, it really is weird.
<ubuntujenkins> I have three things for launchpad i don't know which one is which
<ubuntujenkins> very weird then
<titeuf_87> You just login with your email?
<ubuntujenkins> I think so but then my name displays as luke-jennings but all my links are ubuntujenkins. I am setting up the whole of launchpad on my laptop
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk its asking me to install texlive packages but i have the texlive download any suggestions or off to #launchpad-dev?
<dutchie> godbyk: how's https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+series looking?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what's making you install texlive packages?
<ubuntujenkins> when i try and add launchpad code to my laptop
<ubuntujenkins> Its only """"250mb""""" so i thought i would give it ago.
<godbyk> dutchie: I think that looks right.  But I'm fairly clueless. :-)
<ubuntujenkins> I also thik it looks right dutchie
<ubuntujenkins> *think
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: weird. wonder why launchpad wants tex installed.
<godbyk> I'd ask on #launchpad-dev, I guess.
<ubuntujenkins> kk i will , thanks
<dutchie> I'm definitely of the opinion that we should move main -> lucid-e1
<godbyk> I'm cool with that.
<godbyk> dutchie: do it! :)
<dutchie> humphreybc: any objections to the above?
<godbyk> should we make a series just for the website or is that a completely separate project?  it should definitely be in its own branch.
<dutchie> separate project
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> we should get that going while we're at it.
<ubuntujenkins> there is already a project for the website
<dutchie> OK, series renamed
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: true. do we have access to it?
<ubuntujenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
<ubuntujenkins> erm....
<ubuntujenkins> daker set it up the maintainer is the ubuntu manual team
<godbyk> I was going to pester daker about it today, but haven't seen him.
<godbyk> Cool.
<godbyk> So we should be able to move the website stuff over.
<ubuntujenkins> o talking of website po-pey pointed out that the bug link on the front page goes no where
<godbyk> I vote we killall the sites we're not using.
<godbyk> Copy the countdown page into daker-test/ and make that the new site.
<humphreybc> godbyk, why are we making the countdown the new site?
<godbyk> humphreybc: we're not. we're making test the new site. but we need to copy the countdown page over. (I think it's not in the -test/ site)
<humphreybc> ah righto
<humphreybc> i'm with you
<dutchie> \o/ translations have survived the reorganisation
<humphreybc> success!
<humphreybc> our series chart looks quite impressive now
<humphreybc> so have we copied across everything from main into maverick so we can keep working on it?
<humphreybc> and also, I believe there is a bit in around desktop currently that has the wrong button order (now that they've changed it)
<humphreybc> I think we have to change that stuff
<dutchie> OK, I think all the series are now up to date
<godbyk> dutchie:  the translations should be pretty hardy right now since launchpad will now pull in translations from other series and projects if the string matches.
<dutchie> yeah
<dutchie> I reckon we should leave it for a few hours to see if things get auto-updated
<godbyk> true.
<godbyk> dutchie: did the translations page ever update to point to the new series and did the translations cross over?
<dutchie> godbyk: yes and eys
<dutchie> er, yes
<dutchie> http://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> dutchie: awesome! Wonder when Galician pulled so far ahead.
<dutchie> bloody meerkats
<dutchie> http://www.comparethemeerkat.com/
<dutchie> the maverick manual is going to work out one hell of a lot better, I reckon
<godbyk> dutchie: in a LOT of ways, yes. :-)
<dutchie> now we've worked out what we're doing
<godbyk> and we're starting to get all of our tools in place to help out, too.
<ubuntujenkins> we could do with a few more people
 * ubuntujenkins loves two instances of dropbox and a hidden icon
<godbyk> we may get some more people once everyone sees what we've been working on.
<godbyk> and once we have more solid plans laid out for future work.
<dutchie> and once we've worked out how to get along with the docs team
<ubuntujenkins> I hope so, nice to get more people involved. I want to get along with the doc team
<dutchie> so do I
<dutchie> ooh, the template has imported for maverick
<dutchie> and LP has set it as the translation focus :|
<ubuntujenkins> doh!
<humphreybc> i'm going offline as people fix our internet
<dutchie> ah, that's where all my internet has gone
<dutchie> downloading two branches of u-m simultaneously
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: have we filled a bug about the incomplete packages of tex live in lucid?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I haven't. I don't know what the state of those packages are.
<ubuntujenkins> also IF i can, any objections to me doing a ppa for people to use on the next release
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: maybe. ask me about it a bit later (say, after I've finished compiling php). :-)  There are some issues with that that we'll want to clear up.
<ubuntujenkins> ok
<godbyk> for instance, most distributions (including debian and ubuntu) don't include the tlmgr program because it allows you to install tex files without going through synaptic/dpkg/whatever.
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: ppa for ubuntu manual?
<godbyk> if we get all those issues resolved, I'm happy to try to maintain a texlive ppa.
<ubuntujenkins> no for texlive
<dutchie> that sounds fun
<ubuntujenkins> ern that might be fun i had forgotten about that
<godbyk> loads, I'm sure.
<godbyk> the problem I have with the debian/ubuntu packages is that they don't keep things up to date.
<dutchie> I know, who cares about stability?
<dutchie> :P
<godbyk> dutchie: or bug fixes. :-)
<dutchie> they get backported
<dutchie> (in theory)
<godbyk> yeah, right! which is why ubuntu and debian were still running tex live 2007. :)
<dutchie> lucid has TL 2009
<ubuntujenkins> 2009 in lucid
 * dutchie checks debian
<godbyk> yeah, finally, but it's also out of date by now as new packages are dropped into texlive all the time.
<ubuntujenkins> and it is 1gb smaller
<dutchie> 2009 in squeeze
<dutchie> and sid
<ubuntujenkins> bet it doesn't work for us :P
<dutchie> it doesn't
<dutchie> due to lack of ccicons
<ubuntujenkins> lack of what?
<dutchie> a latex package
<ubuntujenkins> I see
 * ubuntujenkins is downloading the whole of the launchpad source
<dutchie> might have to leave that one overnight
<ubuntujenkins> I hope not i am on a download limit at home
<dutchie> did it not occur to you that it could be quite big?
<godbyk> ccicons has been around since december of last year.
<ubuntujenkins> meh as long as i don't go over it two months in a row, its suppose to be 250 mb
<godbyk> 250 MEGAbytes? Not gigabytes?
<ubuntujenkins> I was just double checking that now "The source tree is about 150Mb, although the total size of the repository you'll download is about 280Mb, as you're getting the full history with it."
<ubuntujenkins> I was worried as that is the same size as my hard disk
<dutchie> ...
<dutchie> you have a 250 MB hard disk?
<ubuntujenkins> 250GB!
<ubuntujenkins> a 250mb disk with text live on and ubuntu that would be so cool. we could try for a quickshot floppy then :P
<godbyk> ah, that's more reasonable. :)
 * godbyk is compiling dependencies of dependencies for php.
<Ddorda> godbyk: using LFS or something? :P
<godbyk> Ddorda: by hand. compiling a new version of php5 (with some extra modules) for my web server.
<godbyk> just so the quickshot guys can create a zip file. :-P
<Ddorda> godbyk: there's no PPA or something?
<godbyk> Ddorda: I don't have root. It's a shared server.
<Ddorda> godbyk: oh.. I see
<ubuntujenkins> we are working to remove the dependency for the next release.
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: please keep me informed on how your project gets on
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, 'sup?
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, the --with-zip option, godbyk.
<Red_HamsterX> Which you've probably found already.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks he may have worked it out now
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: yeah, I found it.  compiling all the dependencies now.
<Red_HamsterX> If you just build with whatever flags Ubuntu's package uses, we'd be guaranteed 100% interoperability.
<Red_HamsterX> But Zip's all we really need.
<ubuntujenkins> launchpad has 10633 revisons
<Red_HamsterX> WEAK!
<dutchie> reason #42 for removing the website from the main manual branch: extra conflicts when I merge the translations
<dutchie> that does it
<dutchie> I'm changing the translations workflow
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: can you find the arguments they pass to ./configure for php in ubuntu?
<godbyk> dutchie: what's your workflow?  I've just been downloading the tarball and extracting them and committing them and pushing.
<dutchie> godbyk: merging from the branch it exports to
<dutchie> more trouble than it's worth
<godbyk> dutchie: ah, sounds like it. especially if you're not keeping your branch synced with main
<dutchie> especially when there are 70 conflicts every single time
<dutchie> right, time to go through and update all the bugs and blueprints and things to point to the right milestone
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: noooooo we will get loads of spam mail :P
<dutchie> there don't seem to be many
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, http://paste.ubuntu.com/410286/
<ubuntujenkins> thats not that many options :D
<Red_HamsterX> (Not filtered to remove things that don't apply to non-Debian environments)
<Red_HamsterX> (Which is, like, half of that)
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: thanks.
<godbyk> I'll be back in a bit. I'm going to run to the grocery store.
 * ubuntujenkins now has the whole of the launchpad source, how ever i have no clue how to use it
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-07
<Red_HamsterX> Rebrand it with your name and launch lunchpad.net.
<ubuntujenkins> lunchpad lol
<ubuntujenkins> there are lots of useful readme's at least
<dutchie> hmm, I think we need to do a "Notes for translators", or publicise it or somethign
<ubuntujenkins> why whats been asked?
<dutchie> it's more people translating bits of the commands that shouldn't have been
<dutchie> contrary to https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+question/106598
<ubuntujenkins> I see, i am off it is getting late. night all
 * dutchie wonders if there are a few errors in godbyk's style guide
<dutchie> OK, looks like I'll be asleep before godbyk is back, so I'll add what I think is wrong below:
<dutchie> should the text in \warning be red? same for \advanced
<dutchie> also, it's probably worth mentioning the plural option to \newglosaryentry
<dutchie> the style guide needs more publicity too :)
<dutchie> ooh, the bit mentioning \button in the GUI elements section table is missing a backslash
<dutchie> if I see "these branches have diverged" one more time, I'm going to hurt somebody
<dutchie> \o/ pushed successfully
<dutchie> now, bed
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<godbyk> dutchie: what bugs did you find in the style guide?
<godbyk> fixing 'em now.
<godbyk> I've uploaded an updated style guide.
<godbyk> I'll send an email to the list about it soon.
<humphreybc> can someone tell me what happens if you try to start a computer without a processor/broken one?
<godbyk> humphreybc: the bios will beep at you and nothing will boot
<humphreybc> so the bios will show?
<humphreybc> i think i *may* have fried a processor, i'm not getting anything out of the VGA port
<humphreybc> ie, the monitor reckons there is no connection
<humphreybc> (I had the CPU running fanlessly and then without a heatsink for a bit, it's only a pentium 3 733 mhz)
<humphreybc> any idea?
<humphreybc> i might try the computer hooked up to another monitor, see what happens
<godbyk> humphreybc: does the computer beep a sequence/code when you turn it on?
<humphreybc> i don't think so
<nisshh> humphreybc: you ran it with no heatsink!?
<humphreybc> it just beeps once like usual
<humphreybc> nisshh: only without the heatsink for a few seconds, i think the heatsink gel stuff is busted anyway
<godbyk> make sure you have the monitor plugged into the right port (if you have an on-board and external monitor port/card)
<nisshh> humphreybc: and if you can access the bios then make sure the inbuilt vga in enabled
<nisshh> or whichever is supposed to be enabled
<humphreybc> can't access the bios, monitor is plugged into the only port there is
<humphreybc> it was working before
<humphreybc> i pulled it apart because the CPU fan was rattling, turns out it's stuffed
<nisshh> it appears my motherboard prefers PATA or SATA drives so it refuses to boot my new SATA drive lol
<humphreybc> so i put it all back together without the fan to see how it went fanless
<humphreybc> anyway, it seemed to start up okay but no display
<nisshh> humphreybc: was it working ok before you fiddled with the cpu?
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> I reset the bios by removing the power and taking out the battery
<humphreybc> that didn't change anything
<nisshh> humphreybc: you may have discharged some static onto the motherboard and fired it
<nisshh> fried*
<humphreybc> mebbe
<nisshh> or, you changed something else and havent corrected it yet
<nisshh> go through a checklist and tick everything off as you go
<humphreybc> nah i haven't changed anything else. i've worked on a few computers, never really done much with the CPU thugh
<humphreybc> though*
<humphreybc> i'm looking at a new one now
<humphreybc> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Computers/Components/CPUs/Intel/auction-282110257.htm
<humphreybc> but i'll give it a shot on a different monitor
<humphreybc> it's not a very expensive computer
<nisshh> what are you planning on using a p3 for?
<humphreybc> i've already got a P3
<humphreybc> it's a socket 370 so that's the best in that socket
<humphreybc> it's an old dell thing
<nisshh> what so your main comp is a p3??
<humphreybc> got it for $50
<humphreybc> hahaha no no
<humphreybc> this is like my 3rd computer
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> was a bit worried there
<humphreybc> it serves as a guest PC for my mums bed and breakfast
<nisshh> ah cool
<humphreybc> i was trying to put lubuntu on it actually but the installer died
<nisshh> yea i dont know if even lubuntu will work on it
<nisshh> you might need a non graphical installer
<nisshh> like DSL or something
<humphreybc> yeah true
<humphreybc> i downloaded arch linux today
<humphreybc> i had ubuntu on it first, that was shit slow, then tried xubuntu, that was worse
<humphreybc> (all installed using alternate CD)
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> why not install ubuntu and then install lubuntu-desktop and switch it over that way
<nisshh> i know people running that on p2s
<humphreybc> true
<humphreybc> i could try that
<humphreybc> first i gotta get the CPU working
<nisshh> how much RAM?
<humphreybc> 512 SD
<nisshh> lol yea true
<humphreybc> i have to figure out if the mobo is fried
<nisshh> meh thats not bad for a p3
<humphreybc> if it is there's no point in buying that 1.4GHz
<nisshh> if you wanna know if the mobos fried unplug everything and take out the cpu and ram and just power up the mobo on its own
<humphreybc> and then what happens?
<nisshh> well it should just sit there running
<nisshh> or not work at all if its busted
<humphreybc> k
<humphreybc> brb
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> cool!
<nisshh> rainbow text is awesome!
<humphreybc> removed the RAM and CPU and it boots up okay and just stays there
<humphreybc> well
<humphreybc> not boots up
<humphreybc> but the mobo runs
<nisshh> ok well atleast it runs
<humphreybc> i don't think i've fried the mobo
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> i might buy this 1.4GHz anyway, it's in chch
<humphreybc> i'll pick it up tomorrow (or tonight)
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> it might be the cpu thats trashed
<humphreybc> yeah maybe
<humphreybc> i wonder if stock ubuntu will run on a 1.4 with 512mb ran
<humphreybc> ram*
<humphreybc> well
<humphreybc> run wel
<humphreybc> well*
<nisshh> it might run but itll be shit
<nisshh> especially with old SD ram
<humphreybc> true
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: I've installed the newly compiled php program, and your zips work now.
<nisshh> i cant believe my mobo doesnt liek booting from a SATA
<godbyk> That took more hours than I care to think about. :-(
<nisshh> useless
<godbyk> stupid libraries that don't want to compile 64-bit versions suck!
<nisshh> godbyk: tell me about it just spent 6 hours last night doing reinstalls trying to boot my sata drive
<godbyk> As a developer, I'm pretty comfortable compiling things.  But I hate it when someone else's code doesn't compile because it's missing some dependency that they don't tell me about in the README or INSTALL file.
<godbyk> It's also frustrating working on a box that I don't have root access to.
<godbyk> Talk about tying my hands!
<godbyk> I'd've been done with the whole thing in like 2 minutes if I had root access.
<godbyk> But no.. can't do that!
<nisshh> godbyk: sounds tough :)
<godbyk> Anyway, if you go to http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/, you can download a zip file of all the English screenshots now.
<nisshh> cool!
<nisshh> humphreybc: the bzr script is starting to come good now
<godbyk> nisshh: what bzr script is that?
<nisshh> godbyk: me and humphreybc agreed to create a script that installed and setup bzr then downloaded the latest code from lp:ubuntu-manual
<nisshh> godbyk: to make it much easier for noobs to help out
<nisshh> godbyk: im working on it now
<nisshh> alot of people seemed to be getting stuck when trying to branch stuff and pull code
<godbyk> cool
<nisshh> so this should hopefully fix that
<godbyk> wouldn't ground control be helpful there, too?
<nisshh> yes i suppose it would
<nisshh> i might add that to the wiki
<godbyk> I don't know how easy it is to get gc running these days, but it seemed somewhat okay when I used it last.
<nisshh> yea its still pretty new and i know there are alot of bugs
<nisshh> ill have to test it
<nisshh> and see how stable it is
<nisshh> then make a decision
<godbyk> thorwil: the Biolinum font doesn't have Arabic glyphs, so I think inkscape is falling back on another font.
<thorwil> godbyk: hmm. the main thing is it works
<godbyk> thorwil: True.
<godbyk> thorwil: So if you want to start cranking out title pages, I'm cool with that. :)
<thorwil> godbyk: need a script to create the SVGs with the right names and translates strings inside. and a list of fonts that i will need
<godbyk> thorwil: I can probably do something like that.  is there a way I can id the svg element/tag that contains the title, author, and edition text?
<thorwil> godbyk: inkscape can't embed fonts, so i guess we have to export with text converted to paths?
<godbyk> thorwil: if it can't embed fonts (in PDFs), then yeah, we'll have to export to paths, I guess.
<thorwil> godbyk: the relevant elements already have IDs
<godbyk> thorwil: where are the letter and A4 title page SVGs that you created again?
<thorwil> godbyk: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~t-w-/%2Bjunk/ubuntu_manual_cover/files/50
<thorwil> i though i added them to the main branch, but seems i didn't
<thorwil> godbyk: let me add them to the main branch. i also have to make sure "Second Edition" is hidden
<godbyk> thorwil: okay, thanks.
<godbyk> I've downloaded them and am looking through them now.
<godbyk> I'll see if I can whip up a quick script.
<thorwil> godbyk: the relevant IDs are "title" and "team"
<thorwil> godbyk: but i bet a dumb text search-and-replace will be easier than something XML based and entirely sufficient
<godbyk> thorwil: well, first, it helps if I download the svg files themselves instead the html pretty-print of the svg file.  :-/
<thorwil> godbyk: there are download links on the far right, the green arrows ;)  but nm, i'm about to add them to the main branch
<godbyk> Looking at the title element, there's font-family and then there's -inkscape-font-specification.  think those should always be set equal?
<godbyk> yeah, I found those links after poring over one of the files.
<godbyk> I was thinking it looked like the nastiest svg ever, since everything was html-encoded. :-)
<thorwil> godbyk: yes, they should. i have no clue why there's  -inkscape-font-specification but i'm sure it can cause trouble ;)
<godbyk> lol.. no doubt.
<godbyk> so here's what I'm thinking for the script as a first approximation: we'll just run the svg's through sed and do a global find/replace on the 'Getting Started with...' and 'The Ubuntu Manual Team' strings.
<thorwil> godbyk: can i delete the other stuff in the titlepage dir?
<godbyk> also global find/replace on the font names to the appropriate fonts.
<godbyk> thorwil: yes, please do.
<godbyk> you might also want to give a label to the 'Second Edition' text block.
<godbyk> since we'll be using that soon enough.
<thorwil> godbyk: pushed
<godbyk> thanks.
<godbyk> I'm writing the script now.
<thorwil> godbyk: added _en to the filenames, even for the RTL one :)
<godbyk> 'kay.
<thorwil> godbyk: it has the ID "second_edition" ;)  but visibility is controlled via the "second edition" layer
<godbyk> not a problem.
<ubuntujenkins> morning
<thorwil> good morning
<godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins. I finished compiling php (finally!) and the zip file thing works now.
<ubuntujenkins> yey thanks godbyk
<godbyk> if you complain that imap-ssl doesn't work I will slap you.  hard.
<ubuntujenkins> morning thorwil
<godbyk> (some stupid dependencies wouldn't compile on 64-bit for some reason)
<ubuntujenkins> strange
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you please delete http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/03-wireless-authentication@en@1270155084.png  and http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/03-evolution-event@en@1270164997.png
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: done
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<godbyk> thorwil: I've got a script that looks up the string translations.
<godbyk> now I need to make a table or something that holds the font info.
<thorwil> cool
<ubuntujenkins> wow this is strange if the screenshot of 03-evolution-enter-password if it is taken with compiz it has close and minimize buttons. But with metacy it only has close
<godbyk> thorwil: I've pushed the initial script into the branch.
<godbyk> if you pull the branch, then go to the titlepage/ dir.
<godbyk> run ./generate-title-pages.sh
<godbyk> it will barf out a ton of SVGs.  one per language.
<godbyk> open up a few in inkscape and make sure it's change the fonts and translating the text as you'd expect.
<godbyk> (if should also change some of the pages to RTL)
<godbyk> I wouldn't bother tweaking the title pages quite yet until we finish filling out the ubuntu-manual-locale database with the properties of all the languages we're translating to.
<thorwil> godbyk: ok, thanks
<godbyk> thorwil: I think it's rather impressive, if I do say so myself.  :-)
<thorwil> lol
<godbyk> Generating 55 title pages in a matter of seconds.
<godbyk> thorwil: oh, I had to edit the template SVGs to set the 10.04 in lining figures so the translations would work.
<godbyk> the old-style figures were using private use area characters and so the string didn't match what was in the po files.
<thorwil> godbyk: the _em files should be renamed to_template or something like that, then. and the pre-edit files be put back as _en versions
<godbyk> thorwil: good point.
<godbyk> thorwil: do you want to do that, or shall I?
<thorwil> godbyk: you, please :)
<godbyk> 'kay.
 * thorwil gets sqlite3
<godbyk> oh yeah, you'll need sqlite3.
<thorwil> godbyk: msgfmt: error while opening "/home/thorwil/bzr/ubuntu-manual/po//*.po" for reading: No such file or directory
<godbyk> figured that'd be the easiest way to make a small table of locale info (language code, language name, paper size, fonts, text direction)
<godbyk> thorwil: oh, right. that's hard-coded.
<godbyk> at the top of the file, find the POFILES_DIR and edit that
<godbyk> it should point to ubuntu-manual/po/
<godbyk> wherever you keep that.
<godbyk> I'll be making it a command-line option soon.
<thorwil> godbyk: does it work with a relative path?
<godbyk> sure.
<godbyk> it should, I think.
<godbyk> :)
<thorwil> yes, from within titlepage: POFILES_DIR="../po/"
<godbyk> 'kay. I'll use that for now.
<godbyk> since we'll be the only ones running it anyway.
<thorwil> godbyk: could you leave the text figures in for all languages using Biolinum?
<godbyk> thorwil: maybe. it'll be a special case of sorts.
<godbyk> because we use that string to pull the translation from the po file
<godbyk> and the text figures don't use the same unicode chars in the po file and the svg file.
<godbyk> if you open the svg file with text figs, you'll see they are funky chars.
<godbyk> but the po file has "10.04"
<godbyk> so we have to match that exactly.
<thorwil> *nice*
<godbyk> yeah.  no one's interested in making our lives easier, apparently. :-/
<thorwil> the german translation of "ubuntu manual team" feels odd
<thorwil> godbyk: af and bg, among other, are not translated. i guess that's because the strings are not translated, yet?
<godbyk> Das Ubuntu-Handbuchteam?
<godbyk> thorwil: correct.
<godbyk> thorwil: I reverted to your original English SVGs and made new template SVGs.
<thorwil> godbyk: i'd consider to not translate Manual Team for German, but then again, i don't won't to get into the translation business at all
<thorwil> godbyk: excellent
<thorwil> godbyk: something is wrong with fa. title in BOLD text, english
<godbyk> might be the font.
<godbyk> title wasn't translated, but a different font was selected.
<godbyk> thorwil: I'm going to bed now. But if you come up with anything else the title page generation script should do, let me know.
<godbyk> I'll try to get more languages in the locale database, too.
<godbyk> G'night, all.
<thorwil> k, gnite
<semioticrobotic> godbyk: Thanks very much for compiling a style guide.  So very helpful for writers and editors alike.
<Ddorda> what's the meaning of "conventions" in the manual?
<Ddorda> "Conventions used in this book" for ex.
<ubuntujenkins> yes Ddorda
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: what yes? what's the meaning? :P
<Ddorda> I gave an ex. from the manual itself so you'll understand what Im talking about
<ubuntujenkins> I realise now I am just thinking of the best way to explain it
<ubuntujenkins> semioticrobotic: are you able to help explain Ddorda's question i can't think of the right way to.
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: maybe it's something ike an agreement between everyone?
<Ddorda> some kind of way of doing things that everyone agrees with it
<ubuntujenkins> yes, its explaining how we always display the text in buttons in the same way. Or the window title text
<popey> convention means treaty, agreement, pact
<Ddorda> I see, just what I thought :D
<Ddorda> and what's typographic?
<semioticrobotic> hi all
<semioticrobotic> sorry, I stepped out for a moment
<semioticrobotic> Ddorda: When we speak of "conventions" most generally, we're talking about acceptable standards and practices -- ways of doing things "correctly"
<Ddorda> semioticrobotic: yea, I understood that.
<semioticrobotic> When I say "correctly," of course, I mean that the group has agreed on what this means, and everyone is then expected to follow the conventions accordingly
<Ddorda> how about typographic?
<semioticrobotic> In terms of the manual, this typically refers to stylistic conventions
<semioticrobotic> we have stylistic guidelines for ways in which certain elements appear in the manual (what's bolded, what's italicized, what's bracketed, etc.), and the ways in which we write (when to use "you" when addressing the reader/user, etc.)
<Ddorda> semioticrobotic: I see, thanks :D
<Ddorda> *translated!*
<semioticrobotic> you're welcome, Ddorda
<Ddorda> we stand on 21% translated ATM :D
 * semioticrobotic cheers
<Ddorda> I hope we will get to 30% today, even it's sounds a little impossible :P
 * godbyk is alive again.
 * Ddorda is shocked
<Ddorda> :D
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk o/
<ubuntujenkins> hello Ddorda
<ubuntujenkins> * daker
<daker> hi @all
<daker> what's up ?
<ubuntujenkins> the sky :P
<daker> :p
<ubuntujenkins> not much it has been very quite here
 * daker is reading the logs
<ubuntujenkins> that will take two mins then
<daker> is there any progress in the translations ?
<ubuntujenkins> looks like some more than others
<daker> kk
<ubuntujenkins> I have approved some screenshots today. and Red_Hamster-X 's button replacing script works
<daker> cool
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: hey
<ubuntujenkins> hello Ddorda I pinged you by mistake. but how are the translations going today?
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: not as well as yesterday since I had to study
<dutchie> o/
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: but if everything will go fine we will finish with the shots
<daker> godbyk, godbyk-android !!!
<ubuntujenkins> I was suppose to study, but I did go for a run
<ubuntujenkins> cool Ddorda
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: o/
<godbyk> daker: !
<daker> i need you to setup an database
<daker> a*
<ubuntujenkins> does it involve php :P
<daker> yes for the statistics
<godbyk> daker: okay.  do you have the sql or table design?
<daker> one sec :)
<godbyk> daker: I want to talk to you about making the test site the main site (with the addition of the countdown page as the home page for now).
<godbyk> daker: also, working on the downloads stuff.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> brb
<daker> godbyk, check your email
<daker> ubuntujenkins, whats going on with the branches ? is there a new branches ?
<ubuntujenkins> there are new branches not sure which one has the website in. But godbyk was going to work with you to set up a website branch under ubuntu-manaul-website project page
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> he has to change the server over correctly
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<daker> bye
<godbyk> okay, I'm back now.
<godbyk> frak.  so apparently the default search provider for ubuntu will be switched back to google for 10.04.
<daker> o.o
<daker> o.O
 * ubuntujenkins isn't that tired
<ubuntujenkins> the default search engine has changed again https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-April/030589.html
 * ubuntujenkins files manual and quickshot bugs
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I just forwarded the msg to the ubuntu-manual mailing list, too.
<ubuntujenkins> I wish they would make their minds up
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: agreed. on a number of issues.
<godbyk> daker: so fill me in on the two tables you have here.
<ubuntujenkins> bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/557655
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 557655 in quickshot "Default search engine has changed" [Low,In progress]
<ubuntujenkins> it is also filed for the manual project
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: do we need to delete some existing screenshots so they're retaken?
<ubuntujenkins> I am just checking but i think that will be the case. we may wait untill the change is in place
<godbyk> they didn't say when they'd have the new search engine in place.. only that it'd be there by April 15. :-/
<ubuntujenkins> I think an addition to the button replacemet script may have to change the search engine in the full screen firefox shot its still on yahoo http://start.ubuntu.com/10.04/
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: of write instructions for having the screenshot-taker select google first.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: we can for  http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/03-searchbar-firefox@it@1270306020.png but the start page is customised by cononical
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: ah, good point. I forgot about the start page (since it's pretty much the first thing I change).
<dutchie> 0
<dutchie> oops
<ubuntujenkins> same here
<godbyk> hey, dutchie.
<dutchie> hi godbyk
<godbyk> will you make canonical stop changing things after we've documented them? :)
<ubuntujenkins> its so anoying
<dutchie> I could go and camp out in front of millbank tower :)
<godbyk> lol
<ubuntujenkins> please do
<godbyk> we should have a picket line
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<godbyk> protesting canonical breaking the freezes.
<daker> godbyk, what ?
<godbyk> daker: explain how you're using these database tables. what's the logs.fireign_id field for? what's the difference between the logs and urls tables?
<daker> urls stores the download urls
<daker> logs stores the log, for each click i store IP, country, referer....
<godbyk> what is the urls.clicks field for?  won't there be one record per 'click'/download?
<daker> urls.clicks stores the numbers of clicks
<godbyk> you won't have more than one click per timestamp+ip+url, will you?
<daker> at the moment now
<daker> but i'll do it if you want
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you please delete all of the 03-searchbar-firefox* screenshots EXCEPT http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/03-searchbar-firefox@de@1270275743.png http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/03-searchbar-firefox@ta@1270543906.png
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: done.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<godbyk> daker: will there ever be more than one click per record?
<godbyk> daker: also, it might be handy to store the language code in there somewhere, too. so we can see how many people are viewing each translated site.
<daker> one click per record wi
<daker> that includes (referrer,user_agent,ip and code country)
<godbyk> daker: I think the db server has finished setting itself up now. if you email me an updated sql file, I'll create the tables for you and email you the connection info.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> daker: Also, I'd like to make the 'test' site the main site soon, if we can.  We'll need to copy the countdown page and temporarily remove the download link from the nav bar, but otherwise, I think it's working pretty well, right?
<godbyk> daker: We should probably move the website to its own branch, too.
<daker> now ?
<godbyk> daker: Whenever you think it's ready.
<dutchie> but as soon as possible
<dutchie> ;)
<daker> now
<godbyk> 'kay. :)
<dutchie> bloody diverged branches
<godbyk> dutchie: whatcha working on?
<dutchie> nothing, just trying to pull
<godbyk> ah
<dutchie> stuff merging, bzr pull --overwrite it is
<daker> godbyk, dutchie, how do I process
<godbyk> daker: process what?
<daker> i got the branch bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual-website
<godbyk> dutchie: in a couple minutes, I'll have you generate a new pot for the lucid-e1 branch so the translators can update the yahoo->google thing.
<dutchie> oh goody
<godbyk> I think our window controls button order may be wrong, too. I'm trying to find the text.
<daker> and what ? should i delete everything in the branch ?
<ubuntujenkins> I think it is godbyk i filed a bug on it
<ubuntujenkins> arpund the desktop section?
<ubuntujenkins> *around
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: found it.
<godbyk> what's the new order?
<godbyk> we have max, min, close, right now.
<ubuntujenkins> left to right close minimize maximise
<ubuntujenkins> and they look different btw godbyk
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: of course they do!  <grumble>
<godbyk> does the close button have an X on it?
<dutchie> right, everyone stop committing
<dutchie> I'm going to do the translations
<ubuntujenkins> yes godbyk
<godbyk> dutchie: wait, which translations?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: do you have a screenshot of the new (final?) buttons?
 * godbyk is booting his lucid laptop but will need to install updates first.
<dutchie> pull down the translations from LP and update the pots
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I do let me put it on image bin
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> dutchie: um.. okay, which branch? :)  I'm currently updating a couple strings in the 'frozen' lucid-1e branch. we'll need to regen the pot for that in a moment.
<godbyk> (after I sort out this window controls nonsense.)
<daker> godbyk, should i delete everything in the branch ?
<dutchie> I'm on lucid-e1 too
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: http://imagebin.org/92131
<godbyk> daker: leave it for now and we'll take care of that a bit later (after everything on the server has been updated).
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: thanks!
<dutchie> godbyk: poke me when you're done
<godbyk> dutchie: will do
<godbyk> dutchie: I've pushed the text updates to lucid-1e.  you might glance over it to make sure I didn't biff anything.  I edited default-apps/browsingtheweb.tex to change Yahoo to Google, and around-desktop/around-desktop.tex to change the window controls order around.
<godbyk> I'm going to verbize 'Canonical' to mean 'breaking a freeze'.  Usage example: "We've been Canonicaled twice!"
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<godbyk> So, "Stop changing buttons!" could be rephrased as, "Don't Canonical me, bro!"
<dutchie> cf. "Don't tase me, bro!"
<godbyk> Precisely.
<dutchie> godbyk: can I go now?
<dutchie> I'd like to go to bed at some point
<godbyk> dutchie: yes, you should be able to generate the pot file for lucid-1e now.
<godbyk> (or e1 or whatever. I think the series and branch names don't match... which will server as a reminder to not let me much about with such things in the future. :-))
<dutchie> $ bzr diff | wc -l
<dutchie> 1002645
<dutchie> :(
<godbyk> nice.
<ubuntujenkins> whats that mean? i get 13
<godbyk> dutchie: bzr diff | diffstat # makes prettier graphs
<dutchie> godbyk: not much use for sanity checking though
<godbyk> true
<godbyk> but haven't we all given up on sanity by this point?
<dutchie> I may have to
<dutchie> especially as most of it is re-wrapping
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-08
<dutchie> godbyk: going to dike out the \listoftodo at some point?
<godbyk> dutchie: I don't have to.  I just add a 'suppress' option when loading the todonotes package and it suppresses the notes and list of notes.
<dutchie> coo
<dutchie> l
<dutchie> hmm, po4a hasn't updated the pot file
<dutchie> I'll sort it in the morning
<godbyk> yeah, so the notes can hang around for people who are starting to work on the lucid-2e branch.
<godbyk> 'kay.
<dutchie> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  See "bzr help diverged-branches" for more information.
<dutchie> ;lsz hdfgdlksd fg.zdn,kldm
<dutchie> kl
<dutchie> stupid bzr
<dutchie> stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid bzr
<godbyk> bzr irks me, too.
<godbyk> I'd love to merge the couple string changes I just made (window controls and yahoo/google) to my English 1e branch, but I figure it'll just screw things up. So I'm just gonna diff it locally and manually update my stuff. :-/
<dutchie> I'm going to bed
<dutchie> it's going to be a long morning :(
<godbyk> 'kay. see ya in the morning. :)
<daker> should i work on the main branch or what ?
<daker> godbyk,
<godbyk> daker: yeah, you can work on that branch for now.
<ubuntujenkins> night again all
<daker> godbyk, if i upgrade my karmic to lucid, that will cause something ?
<godbyk> daker: upgrading went smoothly for me, but you should definitely back up your data first, just in case.
<daker> thanks
<donri> They will change back default search engine to Google so if you're covering that or have Firefox screenshots ...
<godbyk> donri: yep. I've fixed the translation branch. dutchie is going to update the pot file when he wakes up.  (bzr was giving him some grief earlier.)
<donri> Is Bazaar any good?
<donri> I plan to migrate from Git to Bazaar but haven't had a project to try it with yet.
<godbyk> I don't know enough about the various DVCSs to judge.
<jaminday> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> jaminday: pong
<jaminday> godbyk: hey there, what's the word on the change back to google for lucid
<jaminday> will we be breaking writing freeze?
<godbyk> jaminday: already did.  I fixed those strings in the lucid-1e branch and pushed the changes.  dutchie is going to update the pot when he wakes up.  (bzr was giving him some fits earlier.)
<godbyk> I also fixed the window control buttons order in the manual (since that's been rearranged, too).
<jaminday> ah great, that was my next question
<jaminday> fantastic
<jaminday> so the lucid 1e-branch, is that 2nd edition?
<godbyk> It'd make my life easier if people would stop switching things around on me at the last minute. :)
<godbyk> the lucid-1e branch is the first edition (hence the 1e)
<godbyk> there's a lucid-2e branch for the second edition.
<jaminday> ah of course
<godbyk> feel free to start jamming on that.
<jaminday> yeah i will
<godbyk> there's also a maverick branch that we don't need to worry about quite yet, probably.
<jaminday> are you updating the style guide in 2e?
<jaminday> ok
<godbyk> I've created a separate lucid-1e-english branch to tidy up the formatting on the english edition.  that way my rearranging of some strings won't hurt the translations.  (just adjusting the positioning of things, mostly.)
<godbyk> I think the style guide is in 2e, yeah. there should be a style-guide.tex file in the root.
<jaminday> ok
<godbyk> (I've got too many branches now, so I may have tossed it in the wrong one accidentally. double-check me! :-))
<godbyk> feel free to start adding content to the style guide, too.
<jaminday> hehe yeah it's getting confusing!
<jaminday> ok i'll take a look
<jaminday> so in lp, what does the ~ mean in front of some branch names
<godbyk> some links that may help re: style guide:
<godbyk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/StyleGuide/
<godbyk> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-style-guide/2.30/index.html.en
<godbyk> http://oreilly.com/oreilly/author/stylesheet.html#typography_and_font_conventions
<godbyk> typically, in lp, the ~ in front of a name refers to a team name or a user name.
<jaminday> ok
<godbyk> (btw, lucid-2e should be linked to lp:ubuntu-manual, but I haven't tested that yet. you can also do lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-2e)
<godbyk> (and it's either 2e or e2.. the branch and the series names don't match. that's why people shouldn't leave it to me to set these things up. ;-))
<godbyk> brb.. need some water.
<jaminday> heh
<jaminday> no prob
<jaminday> godbyk: so to make sure i get this straight - all editing should now be done on lp:ubuntu-manual (which is linked to e2), whereas lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1 is currently in writing freeze so content shouldn't be touched
<jaminday> is that the right way round?
<godbyk> back now.
<godbyk> jaminday: yep, you got it!
<jaminday> godbyk: great, I would hate to start making changes to the wrong one!
<godbyk> and 'writing freeze' is apparently a misnomer.. it's frozen unless and until Canonical et al. changes something again. <grumble>
<jaminday> hehe
<jaminday> that's right
<jaminday> so what is in the maverick branch?
<godbyk> the maverick branch is just a copy of 2e. we'll probably have to wipe out what's there and pull in 2e when it's time to start working on maverick.
<jaminday> ah ok...
 * jaminday just remembered that maverick = 10.10
<jaminday> godbyk: one other thing - will the changes RE order of buttons and default search provider make it into e1 or just stay in e2?
<godbyk> they should make it into e1.  I've updated the e1 source and dutchie will update the pot so the translators can fix their strings when he wakes up.
<jaminday> ok great
<jaminday> you probably said that earlier
<godbyk> I think so, but I can't keep track of what I've said to whom. :-)
<godbyk> We should have someone go through the bugs spreadsheet and mark all the bugs that have been fixed so we know what's left from there.
<jaminday> agreed
<jaminday> if i can get some time i'll sit down and have a look
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> if we haven't already, we should start a to-do list of things to fix, add, improve, etc. for the second edition.
<jaminday> yeah and then begin allocating some tasks to people
<jaminday> for now i'll probably focus on adding what i can to the style guide (still haven't really had a chance to take a proper look) and going through the bug spreadsheet
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> the style guide so far is pretty much just the LaTeX handout I made for those training courses we did a while back.
<godbyk> We should look at Ilya's notes for his course and incorporate those in, too.
<jaminday> godbyk: ok - is there somewhere I can access Ilya's notes from?
<godbyk> jaminday: Check the Help/ dir in the branch. I think all the slides are in there.
<jaminday> ok no worries
<godbyk> I don't know if we'll have time to pull it off for 2e, but I think we should create a dossier and sample data and use that throughout the manual (examples and screenshots).
<jaminday> godbyk: you lost me there... a dossier?
<godbyk> Basically, create a fake user that has some emails, a job, a full name, a username, a password, a life, the whole works.
<godbyk> Then we use that persona throughout the manual when we're explaining things.
<jaminday> ah ok... yeah that makes sense
<godbyk> The screenshots currently are of windows with empty text fields.
<jaminday> give people a scenario to follow
<godbyk> That's not nearly so informative as a screenshot of the window with the text fields filled in with realistic data.
<jaminday> yes i agree
<godbyk> It provides an example to the reader.
<jaminday> we could have a couple of different hypothetical users with different backgrounds/needs etc that might use and set up ubuntu in different ways
<jaminday> and refer back to 'joe' or 'mary' in relevant places
<godbyk> maybe. as long as it's constructive and not confusing.
<jaminday> yep
<jaminday> could be worth doing a dummy run at least to see whether it works
<godbyk> yeah
<godbyk> jaminday: if you're editing the style guide, something that should go in there someplace: chapter headings are title case, all other headings are sentence case.
<jaminday> godbyk: noted!
<jaminday> i'll add it to my list
<ubuntujenkins> hello o/
<dutchie> morning
<ubuntujenkins> morning dutchie
<godbyk> hey, dutchie. ready to tackle those translations?
<godbyk> dutchie: I just downloaded the latest .po files and dropped them into the lucid-e1 branch and pushed. might take a few minutes for them to show up elsewhere.
<godbyk> dutchie: can you update the translation files for the website (per the mailing list request)?
<godbyk> dutchie: and, of course, update the lucid-e1 pot file?
<godbyk> I think that'll keep you busy for a while.
<godbyk> dutchie: Good morning, btw! ;-)
<dutchie> :)
<godbyk> (and with that, I'm headed to bed!)
<godbyk> feel free to slap bzr around if it's being a pain.  (I think it secretly likes to be slapped around.)
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> ffs
<dutchie> po4a doesn't work on the netbook, and doesn't update the pot file on the laptop
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: is there any thing i can do to help?
<dutchie> you can try running this:  po4a --verbose --no-translations --package-name=ubuntu-manual --copyright-holder="The Ubuntu Manual Team" --package-version=`bzr revno` --master-charset=UTF-8 po4a.conf
<dutchie> I've got to go now
<dutchie> I won't be around much for a week or so
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<ubuntujenkins> ok I will rember that command
<ubuntujenkins> if i have the old main is that now edition 1?
<dutchie> dunno
<dutchie> I just deleted everything and started again
<jaminday> godbyk: you still around?
<ubuntujenkins> jaminday: he is asleep can i help in anyway?
<jaminday> ubuntujenkins: yes you probably can - do you know much about apache?
<ubuntujenkins> jaminday: I know basically nothing on apache i am afraid, kevin is usually awake in about 5 hours. sorry
<jaminday> hehe no worries, thanks for the offer though!
<ubuntujenkins> all i know is i have it installed :-)
<jaminday> hehe yeah me too. i'm getting stuck trying to figure it out and figured i should ask someone wiser than i!
<ubuntujenkins> I would like to find out too. I want to be able to do what ben does and give links to people
<ubuntujenkins> I could use dropbox but this way would be cooler
<jaminday> yeah having a home server is much nicer than dropbox
<jaminday> although dropbox is great
<ubuntujenkins> I konw i have two of them running at once
<jaminday> on the one computer?
<ubuntujenkins> yep in my user http://wiki.dropbox.com/TipsAndTricks/MultipleInstancesOnUnix along with a script that means they update very 15 minutes rather than seeing the icons
<jaminday> wow i didn't know that was possible. I'll check it out
<ubuntujenkins> I didn't untill the other day this is also useful.  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1321847
<ubuntujenkins> I don't ususally use scripts form random places but that one ^ is simple to understand.
<jaminday> yeah nice, i like it
<jaminday> well, off to bed. Night ubuntujenkins
<danyR> hey guys. I've detected a somewhat big mistake in Ubuntu Manual. You refer that in order to adjust the volume, people shoud lef-click. It's wrong. As of Lucid, volume indicator has benn converted into an app indicator and is functions are acessible trough right-click
<danyR> ups, forget. my bad
<danyR> it's right. sorry, sorry :|
<danyR> gotta get some sleep...
<ubuntujenkins> night danyR, nice to see you are checking the manual in detail
<daker> godbyk here ?
<dutchie> ooh, po4a has decided to work
<dutchie> right, pushed
<dutchie> my last action until about wednesday :)
<ubuntujenkins> evening hows things?
<dutchie> I hate packing
<dutchie> that is all
<ubuntujenkins> i did all mine at 2.30am in the morning, last time
<dutchie> I'm leaving at 7, so I don't fancy doing that
<ubuntujenkins> I was up at seven that day, have a fun time away
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk
<godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins. how goes it?
<ubuntujenkins> not bad thanks family is back home now so more revision distractions, how are you?
<godbyk> I hear ya.  Not doing too bad. Had a slower start to the day as my shower head broke.
<godbyk> I figured that was a good excuse to take a nice, relaxing bath. :)
<ubuntujenkins> sounds like a good idea to me. I like baths
<dutchie> I have no idea what is in that suitcase
<dutchie> I am beyond caring
<ubuntujenkins> If you are going somewhere nice can you fit the team in?
 * godbyk screams, "Take me with you!"
<dutchie> it's only belgium
<dutchie> for 4 days of intense rowing training
<ubuntujenkins> right team all to dutchie's! :P
<ubuntujenkins> we will all sight see and do team building stuff
 * ubuntujenkins silly fly in my room
<godbyk> Hey, guys. humphrebc has an etherpad set up here: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/interviewswithhumphreybc
<godbyk> If you can think of some points that he should mention during his podcast interviews this weekend, add 'em to the list.
<godbyk> (or feel free to just brain-dump into the pad. he's going to read it when he gets home in a few hours.)
 * ubuntujenkins writes random thought
<ubuntujenkins> *thoughts
 * godbyk thinks we should've just written the manual in an etherpad!
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> that would have been fun
<ubuntujenkins> I was thinking about some of the quickshot stuff in etherpad
 * Daker is fighting with a roolkit
<dutchie> nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure
<ubuntujenkins> whats a roolkit Daker ?
<dutchie> (assuming he means rootkit)
<ubuntujenkins> I thought he may have ment toolkit
<Daker> yeah rootkit
<ubuntujenkins> how can you get them?
<Daker> stupid WintoZ
<Daker> ubuntujenkins: on Windows Sp2
<ubuntujenkins> i see makes more sense
 * dutchie goes to bed
<dutchie> night
<ubuntujenkins> night dutchie
<Daker> a fucking systr.dll
<Daker> night dutchie
<Daker> ubuntujenkins: is there any software for radio automation on ubuntu ?
<ubuntujenkins> Daker: not as far as i know. you do mean radio as in the thing you listen too right?
<Daker> yes
<Daker> the only one i know is http://www.rivendellaudio.org/
<ubuntujenkins> I am not aware of raido software, out of interest what are you trying to do?
<Daker> but i think it works only on OpenSuse
<Daker> nothing just a fan of webradio
<ubuntujenkins> Daker: you could try rpm to deb to convert it
<Daker> oki i'll try
<ubuntujenkins> worth a shot, i am unsure how it works i used it once a long time ago
<Daker> ubuntujenkins: one of projects http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs496.snc3/27087_427983093711_121189603711_5412257_715279_n.jpg
<ubuntujenkins> nice :-)
<Daker> http://power-beat.sf.net
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<Daker> thnx
<Daker> ubuntujenkins: quickshot.org still free
<ubuntujenkins> Daker: we are unsure on that yet there is a small discusion on the etherpad on that
<ubuntujenkins> sorry my laptop locked up
<Daker> no problem
<Daker> night all
<ubuntujenkins> night Daker
<ubuntujenkins> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-09
<humphreybc> hey everyone
<godbyk> hey, humphreybc
<godbyk> did you see the etherpad work we did a bit earlier?
<humphreybc> nope haven't got the link
<godbyk> humphreybc: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/interviewswithhumphreybc
<humphreybc> cheers, in a call atm
<humphreybc> be with you in asec
<godbyk> np.
<godbyk> I'm watching some tv. :)
<humphreybc> fair nuff'
<godbyk> back now
<humphreybc> me too
<godbyk> Google just informed me of this (which was also posted to the forums): http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/24334/
<humphreybc> oH
<humphreybc> lol @ solution 6
<godbyk> just renaming 'help' to 'manual'?
<humphreybc> apparently
<humphreybc> or replacing the inbuilt help with the manual
<humphreybc> that'd go down well hahaha
<humphreybc> okay, let's create a persona for UMP that we're going to use
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPpersona
<godbyk> humphreybc: You need to get the credits list written up pretty soon so I can get it in the PDF.
<humphreybc> true
<humphreybc> oka
<godbyk> We need everyone's names (spelled correctly!), also if their name is usually written in a different language/script, it'd be cool if I had that.
<godbyk> We need to know the source of any material that was copied from elsewhere so we can check the license and give proper attribution.
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> who's here at the moment?
<godbyk> looks like it's just us.
<humphreybc> hrm
<humphreybc> i will be hanging out here more often from now on
<godbyk> You miss us, doncha? :)
<nisshh> humphreybc: leaving to go on my next holiday today
<humphreybc> so that's where everyone is!
<humphreybc> on holiday!
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> ill be gone for ages
<nisshh> a week and a half
<humphreybc> an
<humphreybc> man*
<humphreybc> oh well
<humphreybc> you'll have to work extra hard when you come back
<nisshh> lol
<humphreybc> when do you get back?
<nisshh> yea, that script is mostly done
<nisshh> next sunday
<humphreybc> ok
<nisshh> not this one
<humphreybc> is that the bzr script?
<nisshh> yes
<humphreybc> neat
<humphreybc> so what does it do?
<nisshh> it works but isnt very informative yet
<humphreybc> just stick in a tonne of echo statements
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> what does it do?
<nisshh> well, first it installs bzr
<humphreybc> kay
<nisshh> then asks for your name and email
<nisshh> and uses them with bzr whoami
<humphreybc> yup
<nisshh> then it does: bzr launchpad-login <username>
<nisshh> and then downloads the branch from lp
<humphreybc> nice
<humphreybc> SSH keys?
<nisshh> yea, i have no idea how im going to check for an ssh key
<nisshh> using bash anyway
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> godbyk will know
<humphreybc> probably
<nisshh> the all-knowing godbyk
<humphreybc> all knowing godbyk
<humphreybc> hahahaha
<godbyk> :)
<nisshh> hehe
<godbyk> what are you wanting to do?
<nisshh> godbyk: is there a way to check if a user has an ssh key using the terminal?
<nisshh> or in a bash script
<godbyk> most likely.
<godbyk> what kind of key?
<nisshh> ssh key
<nisshh> humphreybc: how are we going to know if they have it uploaded to lp?
<humphreybc> nisshh: upload it for them?
<nisshh> maybe
<godbyk> nisshh: well, you can check the default location and filename: ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub
<humphreybc> the user model is that they've never used lp/bzr before
<godbyk> in bash it'd be:
<nisshh> humphreybc: true
<godbyk> if [ -f ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub ]; then echo "Key exists!"; else echo "Key is missing!"; fi
<humphreybc> you might have to change it to python when you get back and then write it so it sets everything up
<godbyk> I'm not sure if gpg is aware of that key, or not.
<godbyk> running gpg --list-keys doesn't turn up that key.
<godbyk> on my box
<humphreybc> we can have our setup script/program create a key and upload it?
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> i wonder if launchpad has an API for registering a new account
<nisshh> humphreybc yes i can create an ssh key in the script
<humphreybc> something to pester thumper about
<humphreybc> :P
<nisshh> meh
<humphreybc> focus is on doing everything for them :P
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> but don't worry about it now, enjoy your holiday
<nisshh> humphreybc: launchpadlib doesnt have the ability to register new accounts i dont think
<nisshh> lol
<nisshh> going freediving
<nisshh> ALOT
<humphreybc> is that just jumping off cliffs?
<nisshh> humphreybc: you NZ people are insane
<humphreybc> what's freediving?
<humphreybc> jumping off cliffs into water, right?
<nisshh> without a compressed air tank
<humphreybc> oh
<nisshh> just normal snorkelling
<nisshh> lol
<humphreybc> so just swimming and holding your breath
<nisshh> no
<nisshh> with a snorkell
<humphreybc> you're lucky the water's warm
<humphreybc> i did snorkelling in fiji, wasnice
<nisshh> nice!
<nisshh> yea i spear fish too
<humphreybc> neat
<humphreybc> kill dem fish
<nisshh> meh, die fishies!
<humphreybc> how has the branch got 10mb bigger in the last 5 days
<godbyk> humphreybc: because bzr never forgets. :-(
<godbyk> at least from what I understand.
<godbyk> so it will only get bigger over time.
<godbyk> unless there's some way to flush stuff.
 * godbyk knows nothing about bzr.
 * nisshh knows enough to get him by
<nisshh> i still cant beleive my computer refuses to boot from my SATA drive!
<nisshh> unbelievable!
<nisshh> humphreybc: your not going to show everyone what you have been working on with the mugshots till i get back are you?
<nisshh> coz that would be mean!
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> probably not
<humphreybc> it isn't finished yet
<humphreybc> anyway
<humphreybc> work
<humphreybc> g2g
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<thorwil> morning!
<donri> Morning everyone but one of you all!
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: are you there?
<vish> heads up guys! screenshots involving folders would need an update , folder colors have changed !
<ubuntujenkins> vish: what!
 * ubuntujenkins AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
<vish> before people start swearing , it was granted a UIFe
<vish> ;)
 * ubuntujenkins we have been conoicaled again
 * vish tickles humphreybc 
<ubuntujenkins> are they in lucid yet vish,I don't see a difference
<vish> ubuntujenkins: just now it was uploaded  , humanity-icon-theme (0.5.1.9) will be the one
<ubuntujenkins> thanks vish I think i may do all those screenshots my self
<ubuntujenkins> vish: have you got a freeze exceptions link please
<vish> ubuntujenkins: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mono/+bug/556024
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 556024 in ubuntu-mono "freeze exception for humanity-icon-theme in lucid" [High,New]
<ubuntujenkins> thanks vish just want soemthing to link to in my bug report
 * vish suspects we would be doing a few more changes as well
<ubuntujenkins> this is the third time we have had a problem
<ubuntujenkins> vish which e-mail do the freeze exceptions get anounched on?
 * ubuntujenkins obviously isn't subscribed to enough mailing lists
<vish> ubuntujenkins: dont know , i just saw the upload in > http://feeds.ubuntu-nl.org/LucidChanges?format=xml
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks vish
<vish> np... it was actually done a week ago , but wasnt sure it would be granted UIFe
<ubuntujenkins> any idea how much has changed?
<thorwil> guess there's need for a clever image-part search-and-replace :/
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: we have a script that replaces the window buttons already so i expect thats the way to go with this as well
<ubuntujenkins> it just depends on the changes, different langauges may have the folders in different orders
<humphreybc> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/doc-collaboration
<humphreybc> i *think* i figured it out
<humphreybc> oh wait
<humphreybc> wrong channel :P
 * ubuntujenkins all the screenshots are only 26% done
 * ubuntujenkins trying to understand code that you haven't been part of writing is hard
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<ubuntujenkins> evening channel how are we all feeling?
<thorwil> 25% turquoise with a shot of leftward reification
<ubuntujenkins> lol, always random thorwil
<ubuntujenkins> we should have project cloaks for irc
 * ubuntujenkins must be the only person here tonight
 * dutchie is in a Belgian hotel
<ubuntujenkins> hello dutchie o/ how was rowing?
<dutchie> not hard
<dutchie> yet
<dutchie> we're going to the belgian national regatta tomorrow and sunday
<ubuntujenkins> good luck
<dutchie> cheers
<Red_HamsterX> Hi, ubuntujenkins.
<ubuntujenkins> hello Red_HamsterX how do?
<Red_HamsterX> Still busy with the seeking of jobs. Also the development of 3D modelling techniques.
<ubuntujenkins> mice, I pinged you to say they have changed the icons in lucid today
<ubuntujenkins> *nice
<Red_HamsterX> This seems somehow bad.
<Red_HamsterX> Which icons?
<Red_HamsterX> The button order or the artwork?
<ubuntujenkins> as far as i can tell all they have done is made them a darker orange. so i was thinking of ignoring it. Its the folders
<ubuntujenkins> art work
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: http://imagebin.org/92405 is an after
<ubuntujenkins> picture
<Red_HamsterX> Was the nm-WiFi icon always Apple-like?
<Red_HamsterX> Or was it sideways before?
<ubuntujenkins> before http://imagebin.org/92406
<ubuntujenkins> wifi has been like that for a while
<Red_HamsterX> I don't think it makes much of a difference. The shapes and positions are identical.
<Red_HamsterX> As is the gradient.
<ubuntujenkins> that was my thought I just wanted a second opinion. you wouldn't notice if your screen was set up to a different brightness etc
<Red_HamsterX> Well, you would, but it couldn't possibly confuse anyone.
<Red_HamsterX> We should probably overwrite the en screencap, though.
<Red_HamsterX> And any screencaps taken in other languages, if we're working in them anyway.
<Red_HamsterX> But I can't see it being a condition for rejecting an image.
<ubuntujenkins> yea that can be done, we have 26% of the images done.
<ubuntujenkins> can we make it so that we can get an archive before a language is finished?
<Red_HamsterX> Yep.
<Red_HamsterX> get_files.php?language=??
<Red_HamsterX> Just go there and it'll build an archive.
<Red_HamsterX> It'll appear in data/ so you can download it without making the server rebuild anything.
<ubuntujenkins> legend that saves allot of clicking
<Red_HamsterX> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/get_files.php?language=fr -> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/fr.zip
<Red_HamsterX> It's a dumb script, though. It'll replace the archive every time that page is accessed.
<Red_HamsterX> Which shouldn't be a problem.
<Red_HamsterX> If there are no files to archive, it does nothing.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll be active in here again next week.
<ubuntujenkins> nope thats fine. the button script works btw. we need to make it replace the default search engine
<Red_HamsterX> I'm just taking this week off to job-hunt and learn.
<ubuntujenkins> you haven't missed much tbh
<ubuntujenkins> thats cool
<Red_HamsterX> I've been lurking.
<ubuntujenkins> i have found a project to fill the time http://blogs.sun.com/erwann/entry/zfs_on_the_desktop_zfs i would like it working in backintime for gnome
<ubuntujenkins> the etherpad is looking full we should have a meeting next weekend sometime
<Red_HamsterX> Probably a good idea.
<ubuntujenkins> what utc time suits you?
<Red_HamsterX> I'm in North America, without any real commitments to anything else, so I'm pretty open.
<Red_HamsterX> UTC-6
<Red_HamsterX> That seems like an interesting project.
<ubuntujenkins> ok so utc evening might be good as titeuf is utc +1 and he works. I am utc +1 as the uk is on daylight saving
<Red_HamsterX> As a means of luring some Apple users, I mean.
<ubuntujenkins> if i get anywhere with it is another matter. Well i orignaly found a project that was dead. then found out about the mac thing.
<ubuntujenkins> they have the backup system right though all the linux ui are rubbish
<ubuntujenkins> timevault was the project i found
<Red_HamsterX> Nothing will make me change from having a local VCS server for my backup needs.
<Red_HamsterX> But, then, most of what I do wouldn't benefit from binary backups anyway.
<ubuntujenkins> I don't have the joys of a server unfortunaley. I would like one but have no real use for it so there is no point.
<godbyk> I'm back. ubuntujenkins, you needed me?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: nothing important, I was going to ask how to set up files so that i can give people a link like ben does. I have apache but thats as far as i got
<ubuntujenkins> i guessed you would know
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: once you've installed apache, you have two more basic steps: 1. configure your router to port forward port 80 to the PC with apache on it; and 2. sign up for a (free) account at dyndns.org to get a name to point to your computer.
<ubuntujenkins> o thats rather easy. I may not be able to do it when at uni as i have no control over the router.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks kevin
<godbyk> you only need to worry about the router if it's blocking port 80 (firewall) or you have an internal (non-Internet-routable) IP addrewss.
<godbyk> If your PC at uni gives you a real IP, you can ignore the router step.
<ubuntujenkins> i will have to find out i go back in a week, where do i save the files for people to view?
<godbyk> Usually the default location for apache is something like /var/www/, but it varies from distro to distro.
<godbyk> You can also configure apache to look for a WWW/ dir in each user's home directory.
<godbyk> then you can host those as http://www.example.com/~ubuntujenkins/
<ubuntujenkins> that would be a good idea, i will have a play
<ubuntujenkins> on a unrealted topic Red_HamsterX or godbyk any idea how i download this http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/jds/time-slider/
<ubuntujenkins> its like a bzr repo
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: i was thinking of having a quickshot meeting next weekend what utc time suits you best?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'll look at it in a sec. installing updates now and my computer is grinding away on something. dragging the whole system. down.
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'm pretty much free whenever. my timezone is utf-5 right now, though (due to DST)
<ubuntujenkins> ok so far utc evening appears to make sense
<godbyk> sounds good to me.
<ubuntujenkins> this is funny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: this maybe, http://pkg.opensolaris.org/release/p5i/0/SUNWgnome-time-slider.p5i
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: that does apear to be the open solaris deb equivilent. any idea how would i get the source directory that i linked to?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: http://blogs.sun.com/erwann/ scroll all the way to the bottom and read 'where is the source?'.
<godbyk> links to an hg repository.
<godbyk> there are also some screencasts of time-slider on his blog there.
<ubuntujenkins> thats were i got it from, but how do i get a hg repo?
<godbyk> I'm not sure, I don't use hg much.
<godbyk> maybe just "hg clone URL"?
<godbyk> I'd find an hg tutorial and see.
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks godbyk , i will have a look in the morning
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: g'night.
<JuanMarquez> hi
<godbyk> Hello, JuanMarquez.
<JuanMarquez> the ubuntu manual is avaliable in spanish righ now?
<godbyk> JuanMarquez: It's currently being translated.
<godbyk> You can track the progress of the translations here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> And look at the translations in the manual here: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<JuanMarquez> godbyk, wuoo, thank
<godbyk> JuanMarquez: Feel free to help out with the translations, too. :)
<JuanMarquez> i see
<JuanMarquez> see you, thank
<JuanMarquez> bye
<godbyk> JuanMarquez: See you later.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-10
<godbyk> Hey, humphreybc. Have you looked at the notes we made here yet? http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/interviewswithhumphreybc
<humphreybc> godbyk, yep
<humphreybc> interview has been delayed till tuesday because some of the presenters are sick
 * pleia2 waves to humphreybc 
<pleia2> thanks for making that blueprint
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<godbyk> Had to help my friend's sister-in-law with some VB.NET class she's taking.
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: ping
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I have to go an help my dad but have you got a meeting planned on sunday? I would like to do a quickshot one at 8pm utc sunday the 18th of april
<ubuntujenkins> back
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: pong
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: ping
<humphreybc> what's up?
<ubuntujenkins> have you got a meeting planned on sunday? I would like to do a quickshot one at 8pm utc sunday the 18th of april
<humphreybc> this sunday? none for this sunday
<humphreybc> but we should probably have one next weekend, yeah
<ubuntujenkins> not this sunday i would like a quickshot one next sunday
<humphreybc> k
<ubuntujenkins> is there a mnaul one then?
<ubuntujenkins> *manual
<humphreybc> manual ones are normally 8pm UTC on saturday
<ubuntujenkins> I was sure the manual ones were sunday as well. I will mail the list.
<humphreybc> nope, they're saturday night UTC
<ubuntujenkins> Can i add it to the meetings wiki as well
<humphreybc> sure go for it
<humphreybc> mail both the QS and the manual lists
<ubuntujenkins> I might have missed allot of meeting then
<ubuntujenkins> I will
<ubuntujenkins> Thanks
<humphreybc> no probs
<humphreybc> bedtime for me i think
<humphreybc> night!
<humphreybc> oh btw
<humphreybc> the UUPC interview is delayed till tuesday now because some of the presenters are sick
<humphreybc> but i have the full circle magazine interview in about 17 hours
<semioticrobotic> humphreybc, for the podcast?
<ubuntujenkins> good luck, night humphreybc
<humphreybc> yup
<semioticrobotic> awesome
<semioticrobotic> glad that worked out
<humphreybc> yeah, thanks for setting that up
<semioticrobotic> no problem
<humphreybc> anyway, i'm going to hit the sack
<humphreybc> night!
<semioticrobotic> any meeting today?
<ubuntujenkins> o.
<ubuntujenkins> o/
<semioticrobotic> oh, night!
<ubuntujenkins> semioticrobotic: i don't think there is a meeting
<semioticrobotic> okay, cool
<semioticrobotic> just wanted to make sure
<semioticrobotic> I know most of us writers and editors are in a holding pattern because of the translation work
<ubuntujenkins> yep we all are
<semioticrobotic> but I didn't know if Benjamin needed a meeting to discuss the roadmap for our next revision
<semioticrobotic> I'm happy for another week off :)
<ubuntujenkins> i am happy too
<semioticrobotic> well, that frees up some time on my Saturday!  I'm off to enjoy it.
<semioticrobotic> take care, ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> bye semioticrobotic have a fun saturday
<semioticrobotic> will do
<c7p> hello
<c7p> somewhere in a string i found, the \ie , well should i translate the ie or leave it as it is?
<ubuntujenkins> evening all
<thorwil> evening!
<ubuntujenkins> hello thorwil
<ubuntujenkins> evening daker how are you?
<daker> yeah fine thanks and you ?
<ubuntujenkins> I am good, I have found a side project to work on
<daker> explain
<ubuntujenkins> i thought i would have a go at bringing back https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeVault
<ubuntujenkins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeVault/ScreenShots
<ubuntujenkins> its a bit old it doesn't run in lucid
<ubuntujenkins> I am tryind to convert it to a quickly project
<daker> ya old
<ubuntujenkins> I a, trying to find out why it stoped
<daker> very good
<c7p> hello guys
<c7p> i think i found a bug on a string on launchpad
<daker> hey c7p
<c7p> what should i do?
<daker> string on the manual ?
<c7p> yap
<c7p> this page https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+filebug , is the right place?
<daker> yes
<daker> should ask ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> ask me what daker ?
<ubuntujenkins> hello c7p
<c7p> hello
<ubuntujenkins> whats the error c7p?
<c7p> the string number 1422 has the same sentence two times
<c7p> check it out
<c7p> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/el/+translate?field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&show=all&start=1420
<ubuntujenkins> and 1424 does
<c7p> yap from what i see now
<daker> c7p, +1
<ubuntujenkins> please file a bug on it x7p and link it in here an i will confirm it
<c7p> i hope we won't lose any strings (apart from the bugged ones of course )
<c7p> ubuntujenkins, ok
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: it exists on page 124 of revison 772 of the manual
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<c7p> i don't understand
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: thats were people can look if they want to check for it in the english manual
<ubuntujenkins> I will add it as a comment
<c7p> ok
<daker> ubuntujenkins, http://getnightingale.org/ a fork of songbird
<ubuntujenkins> daker: glad someone is taking up its devlopment since it has been dropped. I didn't get on with songbird
 * daker go go go
<ubuntujenkins> night team
<daker> night ubuntujenkins
<daker> godbyk, here ?
<godbyk> daker: yes.
<daker> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
<godbyk> (as long as my Internet connection holds out. it's been up and down all day [again!])
<daker> help!!!
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> okay, how can I help?
<daker> with the branches
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-11
<godbyk> daker: you need help transferring the website files from the ubuntu-manual branch to the ubuntu-manual-website branch?
<daker> no with Series and milestones
<daker> ??!!!
<daker> i don't know if waht i am doing is correct or not :)
<godbyk> daker: it looks like it's probably okay to me.
<godbyk> I don't really understand them all fully, either.
<godbyk> Basically, the milestones are things like alpha, beta, release candidate, etc.
<daker> o.O
<godbyk> and a series is where you want to work on two things in parallel.
<godbyk> do we need to have milestones for the website? we have most of it done already, don't we?
<daker> yes
<daker> if i want to move all the UMP website from https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual to https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
<daker> possible ?
<godbyk> daker: the translations will automatically appear.  if the translators translate something in the UMP and it's the same string that's in the website, then it'll automatically appear.
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> hi all
<daker> hi humphreybc
<humphreybc> :)
<daker> it was a looong time
<humphreybc> how's the website stuff going daker?
<daker> i am going to move the website to lp:ubuntu-manual-website
<godbyk> hey, humphreybc.
<humphreybc> daker: cool
<humphreybc> hey kevin
<daker> and you what's up ?
<humphreybc> not a lot
<humphreybc> need to tidy my room up today, it's a bit of a mess
 * humphreybc might re-design nautilus 
<godbyk> redesign it how?
<humphreybc> make it more streamlined, less cluttered
<humphreybc> sort of like the elementary team has done
<humphreybc> i also just want to draw some stuff on graph paper
<humphreybc> :)
<godbyk> gotcha.
<humphreybc> yeah
<godbyk> didn't a couple different people do that a while back? (wasn't there a post or two on OMG or Planet GNOME about some mockups, at least?)
<humphreybc> maybe
<humphreybc> I think Ubuntu should fork Nautilus
<humphreybc> and make it better
<humphreybc> but i'll talk to you about that in a PM later today
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> humphreybc: Can you get the list of contributors/credits to me sometime soonish? I'd like to get that dumped into the PDF (and website) and figure out which parts the translators need to translate.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> i'll work on that today
<godbyk> It would be great if we could get everyone's names both in Latin script and whatever their preferred script is.
<humphreybc> hm
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> might be a bit hard though
<humphreybc> i'll see what I can do
<godbyk> cool.
<godbyk> I don't know if it's a matter of emailing the list and translators and asking for their names or what.
<humphreybc> i think i'll go through all the launchpad contributors etc first, grab everyone
<humphreybc> and the ones who have odd names i'll try to contact individually
<godbyk> Also, if anyone has copied text from another project, we need to know what that text is licensed under, hope that it's compatible, and cite it if necessary.
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> i think Ilya took the firefox stuff from mozilla
<godbyk> yeah, and that's in the credits already, I think.  but other text may have come from the ubuntu docs project. I'm not sure what their license is (haven't looked).
<humphreybc> same as ours
<humphreybc> we can just credit them anyway
<godbyk> that may be something we have to ask the authors (and hope they're honest about it).
<humphreybc> let's just credit them anyway
<humphreybc> stick them in special thanks
<godbyk> we can, that's not a problem.
<humphreybc> :)
<godbyk> I just don't want to miss anyone/anything.
<humphreybc> keep em' happy :P
<humphreybc> yeah, i know
<humphreybc> it'll be a bit hard
<godbyk> we'll have to organize all that better for this next edition. :)
<godbyk> It's all going to be easier the second time 'round, right?  Right?  :-)
<humphreybc> ugh
<humphreybc> honestly? no :)
<humphreybc> it'll be just the same
<humphreybc> if it's easy, it's boring
<humphreybc> people like challenges, keeps them interested and occupied
<godbyk> ha!
<humphreybc> you think i'm joking ;)
<godbyk> I'm hoping so! :)
 * daker is upgrading to Lucid
 * humphreybc just had his interview for the Full Circle Magazine podcast, went really well
<humphreybc> when is translation support going to hit ubuntu-manual.org?
<godbyk> humphreybc: When daker's ready to make the test.ubuntu-manual.org site the ubuntu-manual.org site.
<godbyk> I emailed him about it a bit earlier.
<humphreybc> k
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: can you put me down as a writer on the website please
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: on the wiki what would you like me to do about the meeting that is listed there for the 2oth march?
<humphreybc> luke, the "titles" will be different for the actual credits in the PDF
<humphreybc> I'll put you as Author, Quickshot developer
<humphreybc> but then we've all done multiple things
<humphreybc> in theory I should have Team lead, Author, Editor, Web designer etc etc
<humphreybc> but in the PDF it'll be different
<ubuntujenkins> ok true just leav it as quickhsot
<ubuntujenkins> you have a good point
<humphreybc> and for the wiki, just remove the stuff about the 20th march thing
<ubuntujenkins> ok will do
<humphreybc> :)
 * ubuntujenkins meeting done
<popey> whats wrong with the textlive in the ubuntu repo for lucid?
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors suggests getting texlive from upstream?
<humphreybc> popey: not enough character support for all the languages
<popey> so if I wanted to build the manual for en-gb it would be fine?
<humphreybc> no, you'll need texlive 2009 unfortunately
<humphreybc> i think so
<ubuntujenkins> yep you need the upstream ones even for english
<godbyk> popey: The Lucid packages don't have the latest TeX packages that we require (specifically, polyglossia).
<popey> is upstream just newer than the one in lucid?
<popey> is there a bug filed?
<humphreybc> i think it's not a bug, more just the fact TeX 2009 is quite new
<godbyk> popey: Probably not. I haven't looked at the packages for a few months.
<godbyk> popey: Basically, the Lucid packages will never keep up to date with the TeX Live packages themselves.
<godbyk> popey: We're using some leading edge packages for the TeX stuff (and we're actually contributing some code back to them).
<popey> ok, thanks
<godbyk> No problem.
 * ubuntujenkins shouts at python dbus
<ubuntujenkins> hello all
<daker> hi
<daker> lucid looks good
<ubuntujenkins> hi daker lucid is good, i have had it since alpha 2/3 I think
<daker> from last night
<ubuntujenkins> I installed 9.04 yesterday in a vm and that looks so old and wierd
<daker> hhh
<ubuntujenkins> evening everyone
<daker> :)
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker, how was your day?
 * ubuntujenkins and quickshot fails on another local
 * ubuntujenkins doesn't understand why it doesn't work
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: which locale is failing now?
<ubuntujenkins> all of Serbian language I have filled a bug against the python module. titeuf put in a work around but it doesn't appear to work
<ubuntujenkins> nope that work around was for something else just trying to write one now
<godbyk> gotcha.
<godbyk> so is it just that pybabel (or whichever module) doesn't know about all the locales we're using? or something else?
<ubuntujenkins> I hope the user is using the ppa. It isn't pybabel all pypbabel does is provide us with a pretty display name for the language. its the locale module that that issue is in
<godbyk> ah
<ubuntujenkins> ok type $LANG in your teminal
<ubuntujenkins> how can i extract the first two letters of it?
<godbyk> with python?
<godbyk> you actually want to extract up to the underscore
<godbyk> so: (lang_code, locale_code) = LANG.split("_", 2)
<godbyk> or something like that.
<ubuntujenkins> exacltly, with python ideal or bash
<godbyk> then lang_code will be the stuff before the _ and locale_code is everything after.
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know if your suggestion works
<ubuntujenkins> yes all we need is the first bit as far as i know
<godbyk> $ python
<godbyk> Python 2.6.4 (r264:75706, Dec  7 2009, 18:43:55)
<godbyk> [GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
<godbyk> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
<godbyk> >>> (lang, locale) = "en_US.UTF-8".split("_", 2)
<godbyk> >>> print lang
<godbyk> en
<godbyk> >>> print locale
<godbyk> US.UTF-8
<godbyk> >>>
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk that helps to fix it
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> you could further splut the locale into locale and encoding (split on the .)
<ubuntujenkins> I don't "think" it is needed, every day is a learning day for me :-)
 * ubuntujenkins was pleased he helped someone else with python today
<Red_HamsterX> godbyk, that should actually be .split('_', 1). The integer is the maximum number of times to split, nit the maximum number of returned elements.
<godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Ah, thanks.
<godbyk> I haven't written python code for quite some time.
<Red_HamsterX> Other languages, like Java, work that way.
<Red_HamsterX> So confusion is understandable.
<Red_HamsterX> (I make that mistake when switching between Python and Java sometimes)
<Red_HamsterX> (It's quite annoying)
 * ubuntujenkins notes that
<godbyk> I can imagine.
<Red_HamsterX> (Like any other off-by-one issue)
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: bug 554861 has got another local that doesn't work I am writing a work around. Also filed a bug against the locale module and people are replying to it so quickly. un like ubuntu stuff
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554861
<Red_HamsterX> Python's issue tracker is weird.
<Red_HamsterX> Sometimes things are investigated quickly, even when minor, and sometimes major things go ignored for weeks.
<Red_HamsterX> I'll see if I can write a patch against it if nobody claims ownership by tomorrow.
<ubuntujenkins> I am not sure i filed it against the right thing at them moment put a patch would be nice if you can do it.
<ubuntujenkins> if you look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/554861/comments/6
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Red_HamsterX> Python's dev team is pretty good about spotting duplicates and moving stuff to the right place.
<ubuntujenkins> ooo i did file it right "Actually, my diagnosis was wrong. The locale module contains a list of locale aliases and some of the Serbian ones are missing. A recent locale.alias file from X11 is more complete."
<ubuntujenkins> anyway what i was going to ask form the output of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/554861/comments/6 would this be the right thing to except "except ValueError: unknown locale:"
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Red_HamsterX> Of course, we won't see that fix until 2.7, so we'll have to catch ValueError.
<Red_HamsterX> Yeah, "except ValueError, e: error-log-write("Unable to process locale: %(error)s" % {'error': str(e),}"
<godbyk> I have four locale.alias files on my system (at least that locate locale.alias found for me)
<godbyk> the X11 one has the sr_RS entry, but the others don't.
<Red_HamsterX> Where we'd replace the string with something more uniform after evaluating how we should rebuild stuff.
<ubuntujenkins> hang on i am confused
<ubuntujenkins> why are we using short_code = locale.getdefaultlocale()[0] when we could use short_code = = os.environ['LANG']
<ubuntujenkins> ignore th double =
<ubuntujenkins> *the
 * ubuntujenkins typing fail
<Red_HamsterX> We'd have to ask titeuf. I assumed it was because getdefaultlocale() did some sort of validation that he found helpful/necessary.
<ubuntujenkins> if we use the other way it would save us the problems.
<ubuntujenkins> If i understand it right
<Red_HamsterX> It likely would, yes.
<ubuntujenkins> reply form the bug is "getdefaultlocale is inherently unmaintainable, and shouldn't be used by applications. I wish it was removed from Python (but unfortunately, too many people got tricked into believing that it does something useful).
<ubuntujenkins> That said, if anybody feels like updating the tables from the various data sources, please go ahead."
<Red_HamsterX> But we'd need to make sure Ubuntu can't possibly mess up $LANG.
<Red_HamsterX> I can commit a patch against 2.7/3.2, then.
<Red_HamsterX> Switch to $LANG, I guess.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks, i don't know what others are missing yet
<ubuntujenkins> I will drop titeuf an e-mail just to double check if there was a reason. I will impliment it and release it in the morning unless there is an issue. and do another cd is suppose.
<godbyk> Per the description, getdefaultlocale() looks at the four locale-related environment variables and parses them in order of precedence.
<ubuntujenkins> which are those variables and where would i find them?
<godbyk> Whereas LANG itself can be overriden by $LANGUAGE.
<godbyk> http://www.gnu.org/software/hello/manual/gettext/Locale-Environment-Variables.html
<ubuntujenkins> ok I will keep what i wrote and look for the error from getdefaultlocale and use os,envi.... as a fall back
<godbyk> k
<ubuntujenkins> thanks guys, I am going to bed
<ubuntujenkins> night o/
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-04
<Andre_Gondim> to take a screenshoot to manual, is it possible to use virtualbox or is it required to use real installaton?
<JasonO> Andre_Gondim Quickshot http://ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot
<Andre_Gondim> thanks
<JasonO> np
<komsas> Hello godbyk-feynman
<komsas> dutchie ?
<Andre_Gondim> does anyone may help me? I am using virtual box, and I installed Ubuntu 10.04. Then I installed quickshot, but it's seen different then that is showing at doc page
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-05
<ChrisWoollard> I don't think there is anybody around that knows it. You may want to e-mail Jenkins.
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-06
<Andre_Gondim> how do I download the screenshot made here http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/10-04
<jenkins-5> Andre_Gondim: I have to approve them first then I can download them and add them to the manual branch
<Andre_Gondim> jenkins-5, may you check it now?
<jenkins-5> just doing it :)
<Andre_Gondim> I need to show to my team to go on in lucid e2
<jenkins-5> which language?
<Andre_Gondim> portuguese brazil
<Andre_Gondim> pt_BR
<jenkins-5> thanks
<Infosoft> Who is responsible for updating Ubuntu-manual.org website and including new PDFs? godbyk doesn't respond...
<jenkins-5> Andre_Gondim: did you take the screenshots with your system language set to pt?
<jenkins-5> Infosoft: godbyk would be my first guess ut may be daker_
<Andre_Gondim> jenkins-5, all ss took around a year ago
<jenkins> Andre_Gondim: you will find all the ones you have taken so far in bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/pt_BR
<jenkins> those are the only ones done in pt_BR
<Andre_Gondim> nice
<jenkins> I had a brainwave that they wer probably done on the old server
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-07
<issyl0> Evening.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk-feynman, are you there
<Andre_Gondim> ?
<godbyk-feynman> Andre_Gondim: Yep.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, you you check if lucid-e1 po file is ok
<godbyk> For which language?
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, pt-BR
<Andre_Gondim> pt_BR
<godbyk> Do you want me to check the one that's in the lucid-e1 repository or download the latest from Launchpad and check that?
<Infosoft> godbyk: You seem busy today :) P.S. Don't forget to check your Gmail.
<godbyk> Infosoft: Everyone's ganging up on me today. :-)
<godbyk> Infosoft: I got your .po file. I'll check it soon.
<Andre_Gondim> brb godbyk
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, check this file http://ubuntuone.com/p/lVT/
<Andre_Gondim> please
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Okay. One moment.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: There are a few bugs in it.
<godbyk> Here are some of them:
<godbyk> In the panel glossary entry, you've translated 'description=' to 'descriÃ§Ã£o='. This shouldn't be translated.
<godbyk> You have \Idots (capital I) instead of \ldots (lowercase L) in a few places.
<godbyk> For the string containing the following: "Arquivos temporÃ¡rios sÃ£o salvos na pasta /tmp por padrÃ£o", you need to move the } at the end of the first sentence.  Everything should be inside the \marginnote{ ... } command.
<godbyk> You have \dropdrown instead of \dropdown in a few places.  (Leave out the second r.)
<godbyk> Find the string "textttnovodiretorio}" and change it to "texttt{novodiretorio}".  (The first { was missing.)
<godbyk> The string "\chaplink{{chaplink:gerenciamento de software}" should be "\chaplink{ch:software-management}".
<godbyk> Find "\button[OK}" and replace it with "\button{OK}".  (The opening { was mistyped as [.)
<godbyk> Find the string "PreferÃªncias \the Atalhos" and replace \the with \then.
<godbyk> I think it got stuck in a loop at this point because it's reporting the same few errors again.  So once you've got those fixed, I can run it again and see if there are any other errirs.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, how do I check it myself?
<godbyk> If you place the pt_BR.po file in the po/ subdirectory, you can run 'make ubuntu-manual-pt_BR.pdf'.
<godbyk> It will try to compile the document.
<godbyk> Then you can look at the ubuntu-manual-pt_BR.log file.  File all the lines that begin with ! and those will be the errors.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, yeah, but how do you know where are the problems
<godbyk> The log file can be a little difficult to read sometimes as there is a lot of stuff in there.  But searching for lines that begin with ! will tell you what the error message is and give you the text of the line that contains the error.
<godbyk> Occasionally the error will be in a different place than it tells you, but generally it'll point you in the right direction.
<Andre_Gondim> hmmmmm nice
<Infosoft> godbyk, don't forget me :) It's 23:28 in local time
<godbyk> Infosoft: I haven't.  I tried compiling with your .po file and it gave all sorts of errors.  But the errors had to do with the polyglossia package. I'm installing all the latest TeX Live updates right now to see if that fixes it.
<Infosoft> OK
<godbyk> If it doesn't, I'll have to look into it more closely to see what's going on.  I think that I'm using a newer polyglossia package than we were using back then and they've changed the format.
<Infosoft> You can always ask komsas for help :) He knows how to compile this troublesome PDF
<Infosoft> I think you can remember him
<godbyk> Yep, I remember komsas. :)
<godbyk> Okay, the updates just finished installing. Let me try to compile your PDF again.
<godbyk> Okay, it seems that the gloss-lithuanian.ldf file that I had in the repository was for an older version of the polyglossia package.
<godbyk> Since they now include that code in the polyglossia package itself, I'll just rename that file to get it out of the way.
<Infosoft> But there are some translations in this file.
<godbyk> In the gloss-lithuanian.ldf file?
<Infosoft> Yes, for example \def\refname{LiteratÅ«ra}%  (LiteratÅ«ra - Literature)
<Infosoft> komsas has translated it
<godbyk> Infosoft: I know.  I submitted that file to the author of the polyglossia package and the author has included that file upstream.
<godbyk> So the new polyglossia package has that file built-in now.
<Infosoft> OK
<godbyk> How do you translate 'e.g.' to Lithuanian?
<godbyk> "e.g." in English means "for example".
<Infosoft> "pvz."
<godbyk> Actually, it looks like the only place it's being used in your manual is in the (English) Creative Commons license text.
<Infosoft> Yep
<Infosoft> I replaced them manualy
<godbyk> Okay.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, may you check it again http://ubuntuone.com/p/lVt/ ?
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Sure.
<Infosoft> godbyk: I've remembered that we weren't able to find place where we could translate word "Glossary" which is used in bookmarks
<godbyk> Infosoft: What does the LTPlius package do?  (You guys added that.  It looks like it's conflicting with the polyglossia package.)
<godbyk> Infosoft: Where does Glossary appear untranslated in the manual?
<Infosoft> In PDF bookmarks list
<Infosoft> LTPlius is for formatting (as far as I remember)
<godbyk> Infosoft: Ah, okay.  I think I added some code at one point to translate that for other translations. I'll look into it again.
<godbyk> Looking at the LTPlius package, it's trying to load the babel package which conflicts with the polyglossia package and the XeLaTeX program we're using.
<godbyk> (polyglossia is like a newer replacement for babel.)
<godbyk> It also looks like LTPlius is changing the formatting of the section headings.
<Infosoft> OK, let's try it
<Infosoft> Yes
<godbyk> Infosoft: I'll try to remove that package and see what breaks.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Find \acronum{GRUB} and replace it with \acronym{GRUB}.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: That's the only error it tells me about now.
<godbyk> Infosoft: Removing that package fixed the errors I saw.
<godbyk> Infosoft: I'll email you the PDF that it generated.
<Infosoft> OK
<godbyk> Infosoft: I'll also talk to komsas about the LTPlius package and the other changes I made.
<Infosoft> Do you know his e-mail?
<godbyk> I think so.  I'll check in just a moment.
<godbyk> (It's still attaching the PDF.)
<Infosoft> The title page is in English. Everything seems OK except that there's no entry "terminal" in glossary
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, may you check http://ubuntuone.com/p/lVt/ :P
<godbyk> Infosoft: I'm going to email thorwil to have him generate the title page and cover.  So there's no need to fret about that just yet.
<Andre_Gondim> almost finished it
<Infosoft> It's strange that Lithuanian cover ins't inserted automatically
<godbyk> Infosoft: Well, I usually generate a Lithuanian title page with a script, but then thorwil tidies it up.
<Infosoft> It should be somewhere among files from personan Git Hub
<godbyk> Some of the translated titles are too long and the font size needs to be reduced, for instance.
<godbyk> I didn't see anything in the titlepage/ directory for Lithianian.
<Infosoft> We'll have to ask komsas because I don't compile PDFs
<godbyk> Infosoft: Also, there's a glossary entry 'terminalas'. Did that show up in the PDF I sent you?
<Infosoft> Nope, this is missing
<godbyk> Okay.  I'll make sure it's in the final PDF.
<godbyk> It may have needed to be run through 'make' an extra time or something.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: It says "Could not locate object" when I go to that URL.  Can you post it again (or email it to me)?
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, http://ubuntuone.com/p/lWD/
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: That one worked. Compiling now.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, I only have one problem
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: ! Package glossaries Error: Glossary entry `conexÃ£o cabeada' has not been defined.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Make sure that you don't translate the first thing after \newglossaryentry.
<Andre_Gondim> my manual isn't get titlepage-pt_BR.svg title page
<godbyk> And you shouldn't translate the stuff inside \gls{...}
<Andre_Gondim> ok
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: No worries.  I'll have thorwil create the title page.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: It looks like there's a line containing \gls{conexÃ£o cabeada}.  Change this to \gls{wired connection}.
<Andre_Gondim> ok
<Andre_Gondim> http://ubuntuone.com/p/lWG/ is there any problem?
<godbyk> Compiling...
<godbyk> No errors reported.
<godbyk> Let me check for warnings.
<godbyk> Check for anything like \chaplink{ch:linha de comando}.  The stuff inside \label{...} and \chaplink{...} shouldn't be translated.
<godbyk> Also \seclink{sec:gerenciando janelas}
<godbyk> And \seclink{sec:organizando-fotos}
<godbyk> And \chaplink{ch:seguranÃ§a}
<godbyk> And \chaplink{ch:gerenciamento de software}
<godbyk> Ahd \chaplink{ch:gerenciamento-de-software}
<godbyk> And \chaplink{ch:instalaÃ§Ã£o}
<godbyk> And I think that's all.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, http://ubuntuone.com/p/lWU/
<godbyk> Trying to download it.  Ubuntu One seems awfully slow.
<godbyk> There it goes. Compiling now.
<godbyk> Looks like there is still a \chaplink{ch:gerenciamento-de-software}, a \seclink{sec:soluÃ§Ã£o de problemas:obtendo-mais-ajuda}, and a \chaplink{ch:instalaÃ§Ã£o}.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, http://ubuntuone.com/p/lWv/
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Looks like you got them all.
<godbyk> I'm not seeing any errors or warnings now.
<godbyk> Would you like me to send you the PDF to proofread?
<Andre_Gondim> make: ** [ubuntu-manual-pt_BR.pdf] Erro 1
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, I have some screenshot, how do I sent you? with quickshot?
<Andre_Gondim> I will upload the newest po file to launchpad
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: If you take the screenshots using Quickshot then they'll get uploaded to the server automatically.
<godbyk> Okay.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, no, some I took without quickshot
<godbyk> Oh, I see.  I think it's best if you can take them using Quickshot.  That way they'll be the proper size, resolution, etc.
<godbyk> If you can't take them with Quickshot, then I would recommend emailing the Quickshot developers to see how they'd like to handle that.
<godbyk> https://launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk,other user get some with quickshot, may you do a temp pdf with all official file
<godbyk> I think I have to wait until all the screenshots are taken before I can download them from the Quickshot server.  I'm not sure, though.  (It's been a while.)
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-08
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, I think there is some problem with quickshot
<Andre_Gondim> I just see windows with "Unable to download screenshot list from server"
<Andre_Gondim> and click on Reload, but there is 404 error
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Which version of Quickshot are you using?  I think you have to use the new version.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, yeah, I am using the ppa version
<Andre_Gondim> I made a fresh install to do this
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, how may I download a lucid version of quickshot
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: This thread might help: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg02509.html
<godbyk> Note that you'll need the 10.04 project file (http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/10-04/[ump]10-04.qsproj) instead of the 10.10 one.
<Andre_Gondim> I got it
<j1mc> hi all
<j1mc> godbyk: are you going to be at UDS?
<j1mc> (or will anyone from ubuntu-manual be there?)
<Andre_Gondim> according this chart isn't complete the screenshot http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/10-04
<godbyk> j1mc: Unfortunately, no, I won't be.
<godbyk> I'm not sure if any of the other ubuntu manual folks will be there or not.
<godbyk> No one's mentioned it to me if they are attending.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: For pt_BR is says that no screenshots have been taken yet.
<j1mc> godbyk: ok - i'm on the waiting list myself. just thought i'd check-in.
<UndiFineD> my girlfriend is going to UDS, while I watch the kids
<Muscovy> Oh, the sponsoring went through?
<UndiFineD> yes
<UndiFineD> hajour is going
<Muscovy> Oh good.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, are you there?
<Andre_Gondim> I took almost all screenshot, I just haven't sucess with ubiquity's pic =/
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, may you check how is it lucid-e1 pt_BR manual?
<Infosoft> godbyk, ping :)
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-09
<Infosoft> godbyk, ping :)
<Infosoft> godbyk, ping
<Infosoft> godbyk, ping :)
<godbyk> Hey, Infosoft.
<Infosoft> Hey!
<c7p> hey godbyk
<godbyk> Hey, c7p.
<c7p> how are you ?
<godbyk> Not too bad. How are you?
<c7p> pretty busy, but fine
<godbyk> I still haven't had time to email the previous authors.
<c7p> no problem i can understand :)
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-10
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, r u there?
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Yep. What's up?
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, may you check if everything is ok to lucid-e1 ?
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: I'll go through the checklist for it tomorrow and let you know if I find any problems.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, I really want to know if screenshot is ok for now, is it possible?
<godbyk> Let me look.
<godbyk> It says there are 40 screenshots pending approval.
<godbyk> The only screenshots that haven't been uploaded are those from chapter 1 (installation).
<Andre_Gondim> hmmmmmm, I've had a problem with ubiquity and I can't make this screenshot
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Okay. We'll try to find someone else who can take those screenshots.
<godbyk> Otherwise, it looks like the ones you've uploaded look pretty good.
<godbyk> I'll find someone to review them and approve them.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, I made a fresh lucid installation and always when I try to do ubiquity --desktop %k gtk_ui neve happens
<godbyk> I don't know how they took the original ubiquity screenshots.  I'll have to ask around.
<Andre_Gondim> I have  a manually screenshot os chapter 1
<godbyk> The original English screenshots for chapter 1 may have been taken manually.  I don't know how they took those.
<Andre_Gondim> If I could send to you take a look at my screenshot
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, http://ubuntuone.com/p/lql/
<godbyk> Those may work.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: I'd recommend emailing the Ubuntu Manual mailing list and asking if anyone knows how to take the Ubiquity screenshots with Quickshot.  (Or if they can just use the screenshots you took manually.)
<godbyk> I don't know enough about Quickshot to be helpful, I'm afraid.
<Andre_Gondim> ok
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, for now, may you overview lucid-e2 if there are a lot of problem
<thorwil> godbyk: hi!
<thorwil> godbyk: i just opened titlepage-lt.svg. inkscape claims the font used is "SQL error near line 1"! ;)
<thorwil> godbyk: the same shit in the already tweaked titlepage-de.svg
<thorwil> godbyk: simply changing the font back doesn't restore the layout/kerning
<thorwil> so all titlepages, at least those i already touched, need to be rolled back
<thorwil> nm, those aren't even in the repo for lucid-e2
<thorwil> anyone knowing lithuanian around? i need to know where i can break "supaÅ¾indinti"
<thorwil> godbyk: lithuanian pushed. have someone look at the hyphenation on the backside.
<thorwil> i wonder what's up with the change from "pradedanÄiÅ³jÅ³ vadovas" (lucid-e1) to "vadovas pradedanÄiÅ³jÅ³" (lucid-e2)
<Infosoft> godbyk, any news about PDF?
<godbyk> thorwil: Infosoft is one of the Lithuanian translators if you want to ask him about the hyphenation and other tidbits.
<godbyk> jenkins: If Andre_Gondim is still around, can you help him out with taking screenshots of the installer for the Brazilian Portuguese translation (first edition)?
<godbyk> jenkins: He's also uploaded most the other screenshots via Quickshot, so we need to look at those and approve them.
<godbyk> I'm going to take a shower and then fix something for lunch. I'll be back in a bit.
<thorwil> Infosoft: hi! can the following word be hyphenated like that? supaÅ¾in-dinti
<Andre_Gondim> :D
<Infosoft> thorwil, it can be hyphenated like supaÅ¾in-dinti, supa-Å¾indinti, ...
<thorwil> Infosoft: alright then, thanks. it's supaÅ¾in-dinti on the lulu cover backside. luckily no other hyphenation needed
 * thorwil went through several words with a native speaker for another language
<jenkins> Andre_Gondim: I understand you need some help with a screenshot
<Andre_Gondim> jenkins, yeah, I file a bug about it
<Andre_Gondim> let me see if I find the bug
<jenkins> I am not sure what is causing the bug. I dont see the attachment in the mailing list can you send it to ubuntujenkins@googlemail.com
<jenkins> bug 704753
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 704753 in unity "unity launcher does not hide for gimp's Toolbox window (dup-of: 706109)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704753
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 706109 in unity "launcher doesn't autohide for windows of type "Utility"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/706109
<jenkins> opps wrong one
<jenkins> Bug 754203
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 754203 in quickshot "problem to take screenshots" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754203
<jenkins> thats better
<jenkins> Andre_Gondim: are you using an install thats on your pc to take the screenshot or a live cd?
<Andre_Gondim> jenkins, Bug 754203
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 754203 in quickshot "problem to take screenshots" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754203
<Andre_Gondim> jasono, I was
<Andre_Gondim> ops, jenkins I was
<jenkins> Andre_Gondim: you will need to use the live cd to create the screenshot there is an ubuntu manual version with quickshot on some where let me find it
<Andre_Gondim> jenkins, I have this ISO
<jenkins> actually that has old quickshot on. you will need to use the iso from the ubuntu website and choose try ubuntu and then add quickshot ppa
<Andre_Gondim> I am working on a report to job, after this I try it again with this ISO
<jenkins> no problem
<Infosoft> thorwil, are there any news about Lithuanian PDF?
<Infosoft> Damn, I'm too late
#ubuntu-manual 2012-04-02
<tomswartz07> hey all. anyone alive here?
 * benonsoftware is :D
<tomswartz07> hey you
<tomswartz07> whats up?
<benonsoftware> Nothing much, youself?
<tomswartz07> not too much. just finished dinner. Jalapeno pizza :)
<tomswartz07> you?
<benonsoftware> Well I woke up two hours ago :)
<tomswartz07> well thats pretty decent. I wish I have, but alas..
#ubuntu-manual 2012-04-04
<jbicha> hi, does anybody maintain quickshot?
#ubuntu-manual 2012-04-07
<c7p> hello all :)
<Kereltis> Hi guys :-)
<hannie> hey c7p_
<c7p_> hey
<hannie> This was the meeting hour, am I right?
<Kereltis> hey hannie
<Kereltis> Yep
<hannie> hi Kereltis
<hannie> I will have a look at the agenda
<c7p_> who many of you are here for the meeting
<Kereltis> Me
<hannie> me
<herat> me
<hannie> Kereltis, do you have another nick?
<Kereltis> Che
<hannie> ah, that explains it
<Kereltis> I nearly always use kereltis though
<hannie> Guevarra is your uncle ;)
<Kereltis> Hehe
<hannie> c7p_, we won 't get more people I'm afraid
<c7p_> ye maybe
<hannie> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-12-04-2ndMeeting
<c7p_> what should we do ? we are only 4 people
<hannie> let's follow the agenda. Others can read the minutes later
<c7p_> oke
<hannie> You can begin with #startmeeting
<c7p_> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Apr  7 17:09:24 2012 UTC.  The chair is c7p_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<c7p_> ok
<c7p_> #topic Current project openings  http://tinyurl.com/crslb7w
<c7p_> i think we should start with this topic
<Kereltis> ok
<hannie> right, I have opened the spreadsheet
<c7p_> you can see current openings
<c7p_> till now we got fair feedback from oneiric authors
<c7p_> but still there are some authors that haven't asked our mails
<c7p_> how long do you think will we have to wait for their response ?
<hannie> do Kereltis and herat have any comment to add (as they are authors)
<Kereltis> looks like we are about half way there
<hannie> c7p_, I think we need to address each author of Oneiric individually
<Kereltis> Yeah, maybe send them another mail
<c7p_> i have sent email to every single author
<hannie> Ah, you have already. Then maybe a reminder?
<c7p_> maybe a missed someone, i'll resent them a mail
<hannie> Good.
<herat> I have a suggestion: we can use omgubuntu to attract more people to this project as omgubuntu has quite a lot of readers. And many of them will help in writing.
<Kereltis> good idea
<c7p_> ye good idea
<hannie> +1
<c7p_> generally we send mails to blogs,  including omg and use social media when we need new authors, editors
<c7p_> the issue now is how long we'll have to wait for the response of the authors
<hannie> I would say one more week
<hannie> And then we can start asking for authors
<c7p_> yes
<Kereltis> yes
<c7p_> ok
<Kereltis> and try for a post on omgubuntu and maybe iheartubuntu
<c7p_> so i'll resent the mail to authors
<c7p_> and then we'll wait one week
<hannie> yes
<Kereltis> yes
<herat> yes
<hannie> c7p_, perhaps you can ask them if they would be so kind as to answer before next week
<hannie> end of next wee
<hannie> *week
<c7p_> ok
<c7p_> #action <c7p will contact oneiric authors to see if they want to maintain their section. Waiting time up to one week..>
<meetingology> ACTION: <c7p will contact oneiric authors to see if they want to maintain their section. Waiting time up to one week..>
<c7p_> is there anything else you want to discuss on this topic ?
<Kereltis> no, that about covers it i think
<hannie> no
<herat> no
<c7p_> now what topic goes next ?
<hannie> Who will be in charge of index and glossary ?
<c7p_> i think we can't set deadlines, there are only 3 authors here
<c7p_> ok
<hannie> too early for that
<c7p_> #topic <Who will be in charge of index and glossary ?>
<hannie> same goes for index/glossary. This is something that needs to be done at the end of the project
<Kereltis> yes, we'll need to wait for more  people
<herat> Kereltis:  agreed
<hannie>     Complimentary content on the website, such as videos?
<c7p_> i think this needs a person devoted to the index and glossary from the start
<c7p_> we haven't set a person to do this job during oneiric series
<hannie> Do you want to ask who wants to take care of index/glossary via the mailinglist?
<c7p_> and generally index and glossary was kinda out of date
<hannie> c7p_, I can do this if you like
<c7p_> ok do it
<hannie>     Complimentary content on the website, such as videos?
<c7p_> #action <hannie will send a mail to the list in order to find out who is willing to maintain glossary and index>
<meetingology> ACTION: <hannie will send a mail to the list in order to find out who is willing to maintain glossary and index>
<hannie> Does this come from you, c7p_
<c7p_> nope
<hannie> I think it as no priority
<c7p_> yap we need someone to present it
<hannie> so, posponed?
<c7p_> i think so
<hannie> ok
<Kereltis> ok
<herat> ok
<c7p_> is there anything else you want to discuss ?
<hannie> next point on the agenda
<hannie> Find new authors/editors/editor-in-chief/developers
<hannie> We have talked about new authors. The same goes for editors, editor in chief and developers?
<c7p_> #topic <Find new authors/editors/editor-in-chief/developers>
<Kereltis> yes, give it a week
<hannie> Try to find people through social media as from next week?
<c7p_> i haven contacted only authors
<Kereltis> yes, we start posting it everywhere
<hannie> ok, by next week I suggest we start looking for the whole lot
<Kereltis> yep
<c7p_> i think Kevin is interested for the Editor in Chief position
<hannie> oh, that is good news
<c7p_> regarding developers we can't though an anounceent
<c7p_> anouncement*
<c7p_> first we have to see what the needs are
<c7p_> what's our plans for the website
<c7p_> as it was said on a previous meeting
<c7p_> this issue is a whole meeting on its own :P
<hannie> Who is going to decide what is needed
<hannie> We might discuss about it on the mailing list
<c7p_> ye of course
<c7p_> and also we have to arrange a meeting only for this purpose
<c7p_> ok anything else ?
<hannie> Define tasks authors/editors
<c7p_> who wrote this ?
<c7p_> hannie ?
<Kereltis> no idea, we can't really define tasks until we have more people
<hannie> I did.
<Kereltis> then we can assign editors to authors
<hannie> Last week we decided authors are responsible for their chapter, screenshots included
<hannie> I do not know if authors agree about this
<Kereltis> agree
<herat> agree
<hannie> Kereltis, we can start discussing this with you and herat
<hannie> I see that you have no objections to the plan
<Kereltis> nope
<herat> me neither
<hannie> We can ask others if they agree via the list
<c7p_> any other topics of discussion ?
<hannie> Next meeting when?
<Kereltis> a week from now?
<c7p_> i don't know
<hannie> c7p_, perhaps we need 2 weeks from now to give people some time
<c7p_> i think it's better in 2 weeks
<Kereltis> ok
<herat> ok
<c7p_> in the meanwhile we can discuss though the list
<hannie> c7p_, will you arrange the agenda and doodle?
<c7p_> for the next meeting ?
<hannie> yes
<c7p_> i'll do it yes
<c7p_> ok
<hannie> thanks
<c7p_> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Apr  7 17:45:33 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-04-07-17.09.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-04-07-17.09.html
<c7p_> thank you guys for coming
<herat> I have a question:  fedora project has : http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/index.html
<herat> and ubuntu also has : http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/index.html
<herat> Can't we use content of this project on ubuntu's doc website?
<Kereltis> thanks guys
<hannie> herat, the ubuntu docs already exists in Oneiric
<hannie> thanks for coming, Kereltis
<c7p_> hannie can you send the meeting minutes to the list ?
<hannie> Yes, I will do that
<herat> hannie: oh my bad didn't see it.
<hannie> herat, about the docs: they are not meant for beginners like our manual is
<hannie> of course you can also look into them as a beginner
<c7p_> btw guys, you can start gathering content from now
<herat> hannie: ok got the point. c7p_: That's a good idea.
<c7p_> i think precise is quite stable now
<hannie> c7p_, that is a good remark. I for one will do that
<Kereltis> yep, i'm running 12.04
<hannie> Kereltis, do you see much difference?
<ajmontag> Hey guys, so I just volunteered to author/edit, I was wondering what the expectations are at this time for me, or am I just waiting for an assignment?
<c7p_> oh great
<hannie> hello ajmontag
<hannie> I'll give you a link:
<hannie> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-12-04-2ndMeeting
<Kereltis> hi ajmontag
<c7p_> ajmontag: what you can do is to follow our list and the meetings
<Kereltis> Hannie, not really, a few little things like the video lense
<c7p_> we'll announce the openings in a week from now
<c7p_> so you'll be able to choose the section/chapter that you like
<ajmontag> sounds good, just wanted to keep up to par. Thanks!
<hannie> Kereltis, I think the step from Oneiric to Precise is not as big as from Natty to Oneiric
<Kereltis> nope, but it is way faster on boot time
<c7p_> @herat, Kereltis ajmontag: in this period you can play around with latex
<meetingology> c7p_: Error: "herat," is not a valid command.
<manualbot> c7p_: Error: "herat," is not a valid command.
<c7p_> herat, Kereltis ajmontag: in this period you can play around with latex
<Kereltis> ok
<herat> yes
<hannie> and gather material, of course
<c7p_>  Style Guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
<c7p_> kevin wrote this guide
<hannie> the information about screenshots will be updated
<c7p_> ajmontag: if you find latex too complicated you can submit your work in libreoffice document
<c7p_> herat, Kereltis ajmontag: if you have any question post it to the list
<ajmontag> I need to start using latex anyway :P
<herat> c7p_:  ok
<Kereltis> same here
<c7p_> :P
<c7p_> guys i got to go
<c7p_> thanks for coming
<Kereltis> same here, thanks all
<c7p_> if you want anything post a mail to the list :)
<Kereltis> see you at the next meeting
<c7p_> cheers !
<ajmontag> thanks, bye
<herat> thanks bye guys.
<hannie> bye herat Thanks for coming
#ubuntu-manual 2013-04-05
<kyconquers> I have a user in a group who is creating and editing files. I want the default ownership of those files to be user:group and not user:user. what file should I look in for this?
#ubuntu-manual 2013-04-07
<benonsoftware> godbyk: Ping.
<godbyk> benonsoftware: pong
<benonsoftware> godbyk: Hiya, I'm working on the pandoc conversion currently, you mentioned that you had troubles with it in the past, do you by any chance remember any of them?
<godbyk> benonsoftware: When I tried using pandoc, it didn't like working with XeLaTeX documents and choked on some of our custom ubuntu-manual.cls macros.
<godbyk> benonsoftware: I haven't tried it recently, so those issues may be resolved by now.
<benonsoftware> Mmm, alrighty. My quick and dirty try is up on http://people.ubuntu.com/~benny/ubuntu-manual.epub .
<benonsoftware> I might sit down tonight and carefuly look at the ubuntu-manual code and pandoc to see if I can get to work.
<godbyk> I just downloaded it. I'm looking at it in Calibre now.
<benonsoftware> Okies.
<godbyk> Cool. I'm happy to help.
<godbyk> Feel free to ping me if you have any LaTeX-related questions.
<benonsoftware> Will do. :)
<godbyk> I'd love to be able to provide our manual in as many formats (including ebook formats) as possible.
<benonsoftware> Yeah, it would be nice to see the manual on my iPad.
<godbyk> iPad? You traitor! ;-)
<godbyk> I need to look into how to get our manuals in the Apple bookstore.
<benonsoftware> Haha. I had to get one for school. :)
<godbyk> I've set up a Google account to get our books but in there, but I haven't submitted them yet.
<benonsoftware> Okay.
<godbyk> I also need to move all our books from lulu.com to amazon.com. Lulu is still having trouble printing our books and some of our translated books are only available on Lulu right now.
<benonsoftware> Still the printing problems? o.o
<godbyk> Yeah.
<godbyk> We never managed to pin down the source of all of the problems we were having.
<godbyk> So I finally gave up and started using the Amazon.com route instead.
<benonsoftware> Good idea.
<benonsoftware> Oh, I was looking at Kindle Direct Publishing last night, I think we can even just submit the PDF file and it gets converted from there.
<benonsoftware> godbyk: https://kdp.amazon.com/self-publishing/help?topicId=A2GF0UFHIYG9VQ#adobe but there may be some formatting issues.
<godbyk> Yeah, it won't look good on a Kindle, though.
<godbyk> The large page size doesn't mix well with the smaller Kindle screen sizes.
<godbyk> I'd prefer to have native (proper) file formats for each e-reader so that our work always looks its best.
<benonsoftware> Ah, alrighty.
#ubuntu-manual 2014-04-03
<belkinsa> Hello, do you guys have a driver?
<godbyk> belkinsa: Overall, it's probably me.
<belkinsa> Alright, mind if you I add to the Doc team's "Contact Us" page as the Ubuntu Manual driver?
<godbyk> Nope, that's fine. Thanks!
<belkinsa> Not a problem
<belkinsa> And also on the Teams page
<belkinsa> You don't have a user wiki page?
<godbyk> belkinsa: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinGodby
<belkinsa> Thank you.
<godbyk> I should probably update that sometime.  :)
