#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-16
<shauno> hm.  pogoplug on ibood.  can't decide if interesting is 50eur worth of interesting
<popey> !gnome3
<lubotu3> Gnome 3 is not currently supported on Ubuntu. A PPA for natty is available at https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3 but these packages are EXPERIMENTAL and UNSTABLE, will break Unity and possibly other parts of your system, and cannot be downgraded safely.
<Apacheuk> morning all
<popey> morning
<Apacheuk> is it too early for a question re ubuntu one?
<popey> nah, go for it
<popey> #ubuntuone might be better though :)
<popey> depending on the question
<Apacheuk> is there a way to make a directory only sync one way? I want to have a backup directory, but don't want it to sync to all my other machines?
<popey> dont think so
<Apacheuk> will as in there.... cheers
<Apacheuk> thats annoying, it would be handy.... and I would definitely buy more storage from Cononical :)
<dwatkins> mornin folks
<popey> Apacheuk: I've started using spideroak
<DJones> Morning
<Apacheuk> popey: will take look now
<Apacheuk> Popey:I think I can get UbuntuOne to do what I want.... thanks to the #ubuntuone channel, sync a dir on one machine but don't subscribe to it on others
<gord> Apacheuk, you can select on your machines which folders you want to sync. so yes
<gord> Apacheuk, basically, share that folder on one machine, go to the ubuntu one control panel on your other machines and uncheck the box
<popey> nice
<gord> huh.. PSN is back up the day i'm back to work... suspicious
<MartijnVdS> gord: it was up yesterday evening
<TheAshMan> How do I recursively chown a directory that has sub directories and hidden files & folders?
<dutchie> chown -R should do it
<diplo> chown -R
<diplo> :)
<TheAshMan> diplo, dutchie: it seems that doesn't own the hidden files multi levels deep
<dutchie> you could probably throw together some monstrosity with find and xargs then
<TheAshMan> hmm
<diplo> .* at the end ?
<dutchie> find top-dir/ -print0 | xargs -0 chown foo:foo
<diplo> dutchies solution probably better
<diplo> wonder if .* will follow ../ back :)
<shauno> it just did on mine :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<hoover> hi folks
<hoover> hey biggie
<bigcalm> Hi hoovie
<hoover> all well mate?
<bigcalm> It's Monday...
<hoover> "montag ist schontag" ;-)
<bigcalm> schontag?
<MartijnVdS> beautiful/nice day
<bigcalm> Good for you :P
<bigcalm> It's gone cold/overcast/windy
<oimon> yeah i'm chilly here
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: not that's what "schontag" means
<MartijnVdS> almost
<kazade> morning all
<oimon> noticing that my memory utilization on this PC has stabilised a lot since switching to chromium
<oimon> instead of firefox
<MartijnVdS> \o/ chromium
<oimon> still prefer firefox UI though :(
<gord> on my netbook if i use chromium i run out of memory fast. memory usage is too tied in to tabs
<HazRPG> anyone good with grub2?
<popey> !anyone
<lubotu3> A large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<popey> :)
<oimon> popey: how did you get on with chromium OS install?
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> heh, forgot
<gord> ah, i figured it out. evolution hates me and thats why when i check "subscribe to this folder" it unchecks it
<popey> it built but i didnt test it
<HazRPG> I keep getting "filel not found"
<HazRPG> for an iso
<popey> ooo
<oimon> found it strange that u need a 64 bit system to buld it on
<HazRPG> bah this internet here is so painful
<HazRPG> file*
<popey> oh i had an issue with it
<hoover> "schontag": A day to take a relaxed attitude ;-)
<popey> for some reason it was looking for VBoxManage inside the chroot
<popey> which is odd because VirtualBox is installed outside the chroot
<popey> so no idea how that is ever supposed to work
<gord> did anyone follow the default browser talk at UDS?
<gord> wondering what the outcome of that was
<oimon> you built it on 64 bit lucid install ?
<HazRPG> this is from a thumbdrive i should mention btw
<popey> oimon: no, natty
<oimon> popey: don't they recommend lucid?
<popey> maybe
<popey> doesnt really matter, the build happens inside a chroot
<HazRPG> oh, i think i've figured it out
<czajkowski> aloha
<gord> morning czajkowski
<HazRPG> my iso's have the permissions -rwxr-x---
<oimon> http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-guide#TOC-Preliminary-requirements: Most developers working on Chromium OS are using Lucid (the LTS version of Ubuntu) and will not be updating to 10.10. It is possible that things will work if you're running a different Linux distribution, but you will probably find life easier if you're on Lucid. Please note that Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) is known not to work.
<HazRPG> that might be why ^_^
<czajkowski> gord: howdy
<gord> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/13405464 <--- i'm actually offended that BBC chose to put this in the "technology" news feed.
<popey> oimon: it builds fine, its not a problem
<oimon> oh ok
<popey> gord: news beat though, news for young people with ADHD
<oimon> news that is not news..
<oimon> was about to throw away my laser printer when i realised that it was an ubuntu bug...here was me thinking it was due to thefact that it is > 10 years old
<oimon> swapped PS driver for PCL and seems to work fine again :D
<oimon> which is more than i can say for my inkjet grrr
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<daubers> Morning
<brobostigon> morning daubers
<oimon> ugh nobody wants to sell me stuff :( thought people would be keen for business nowadays but no :(
 * oimon has money burning a hoel in his pocket
<DJones> Perhaps you're trying to buy the wrong things
<bigcalm> popey: poke
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<oimon> new alpha.gov project runs ubuntu: http://blog.alpha.gov.uk/colophon
<czajkowski> canonical website sends you your email password in plain text
<czajkowski> not smart!
<gord> you can log in to the canonical website? o_O
<popey> bigcalm: hmm?
<popey> ah yes
<bigcalm> popey: you were going to give me an email address
<bigcalm> :)
<czajkowski> gord: careers page
<jpds> czajkowski: No, that's ROT26.
<czajkowski> jpds: couldnt remember my password so it just mailed it to me in plain text
<czajkowski> jpds: point me in the right direction to file a bug and I will
<popey> bigcalm: pm :)
<oimon> what can i do if the "Stop publishing via ubuntu one" is greyed out? - i seem to have published something but cannot get the url or stop publishing it
<oimon> hmm website says it's not published :S
<czajkowski> oh no davmor2 to harass
<popey> oimon: there is some fun stuff published on U1 :D
<oimon> popey: yeah, i've noticed :D
<oimon> i guess there's no server side encryption
<oimon> bug 375289
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 375289 in Ubuntu One Servers "data encryption (client-side as well as server-side)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375289
<nigelb> o/
<popey> I'd be surprised if they ever did that
<popey> they're probably doing the same de-dupe that dropbox do
<oimon> yeah
<popey> http://www.bbcshop.com/matt-smith/doctor-who-dalek-progenitor-room-mini-set/invt/03857
<popey> cute
<popey> I have switched to spideroak
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> I'm back in a real time zone
<bigcalm> GMT?
<popey> the 1970's?
<davmor2> bigcalm: bst but yes
<davmor2> popey: no you and I both know the 80's is the only real decade right
<popey> hehe, knew you'd say that :)
<davmor2> popey: Can't argue with the truth ;)
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> I have to agree
<davmor2> So who tuned into uds and what is happening?
<oimon> as soon as ubuntu one gains a few more features it will be indispensible for ubuntu users
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a I'm back home prod
<davmor2> oimon: you mean it isn't now I use it all the time
<oimon> davmor2: it's useful now..but with tighter integration and some extra features, many more users will be onboard, i'm sure
 * czajkowski prods davmor2 
<gord> just ordered myself a new laptop, thinkpad X220 - all very exciting. course the ideal situation is that my previous laptop would not of died half way through UDS but hey
<oimon> X220 tablet?
<oimon> or the regular lappy
<X3N> Anyone got a Intel 5300 wireless... working..?
<gord> laptop
<oimon> ok - waiting for stock so i can buy the tablet
<gord> 7.something hours of battery life :) (on windows)
<popey> 3.something hours of battery life :( (on Ubuntu)
<gord> the lenovo website was selling them stupid cheep, all the resellers were Â£1000+ excluding tax, lenovo sold to me for Â£821 including tax
<gord> i'll run it on windows with ubuntu in a VM ;)
<popey> blimey, thats a good deal
<bigcalm> o.O
<oimon> gord: thats handy - do they sell to the UK?
<gord> yup
<gord> price was in sterling with UK tax, no importing
<oimon> i think i looked last month and the site was bare..maybe the x220t wasnt out by then
<oimon> yeah...still the same - only selling the x201 tablet, even though a reseller has the x220
<gord> http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/gbweb/LenovoPortal/en_GB/builder.workflow:Enter?sb=%3A000000F0%3A0000022B%3A&smid=7543BB138E644775A33CC781942250F1 - there you go
<gord> oh unless you want the x220 tablet?
<oimon> yep :D
<oimon> it's hard to get news about it, not sure if it is properly out yet or not
<gord> still don't trust tablets :) no one seems to have a good user story for them
<popey> a good user story, seriously?
<popey> how many ipads have been sold so far?
<oimon> well the x200t is a laptop hybrid so it's largely a laptop with note taking ability
<gord> i'm not questioning that, but the ipad is really a big phone. it works, but it sort of feels like a ported phone user story rather than a tablet story
<popey> mine isnt a big phone, it has no phone capabilities
<popey> I have never made a call on it
<gord> without the nit-picking ;)
<oimon> http://dag.wieers.com/blog/centos-devel-ml-feels-like-devnull
<oimon> centos is really suffering right now :(
<popey> fair enough, I know nothing, clearly.
<gord> i didn't say that, nor do i think it - i just thought it was obvious what i meant by "phone" - the use of the word has been twisted into what it is today, a device that can also make phone calls, maybe, i mean, it doesn't have to, i'd still call it a phone
<AlanBell> are there large android tablets that can make calls?
<popey> it was not obvious to me, no
<gord> i'm not sure, i doubt honeycomb has that built in, but i would expect they could once 3.0 and 2.* merge in ics
<popey> That's how I understood it, phone bits from 2.x go into 3.x to make ICS
<DJones> AlanBell: http://www.merimobiles.com/Kinpad_7_3G_8GB_CALLS_SMS_PREORDER_NOW_p/meri0540.htm Android tablet that says it can make & receive calls
<gord> do you have to hold it to your head?
<AlanBell> heh, he does in the video
<AlanBell> I was thinking that a tablet + bluetooth headset would work well as a phone
<popey> I was thinking a phone works quite well as a phone :)
<bigcalm> 11 days until my 7" android tablet gets shipped
<bigcalm> popey: we're getting closer to me spamming the channel as promised :P
<X3N> which one are you getting bigcalm ?
<DJones> I was looking at this yesterday http://www.firebox.com/product/3592/Sagemcom-Sixty-Cordless-Telephone
<bigcalm> X3N: http://www.kogan.co.uk/shop/7-inch-tablet-pc-android/
<X3N> 0_o
<bigcalm> Nice responce
<DJones> A couple of days ago, somebody was asking about whether HDMI output worked with Natty, does that ring a bell with anyone as to who it was?
<DJones> Found it
<DJones> They're offline anyway
<oimon> http://www.firebox.com/product/1902/Stylophone-Original :D
<bigcalm> Oh god
<bigcalm> Unless you can play it like Rolf Harris, it's a horrible device
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: practice, practice, practice
<oimon> buy it for the children of people you want to annoy :D
<DJones> Heh http://www.firebox.com/product/2854/Bacon-Chocolate
<oimon> that's expensive stuff
<DJones> I can't decide which is a worse idea, bacon chocolate, or bacon toothpaste *Although we do have beef flavoured toothpaste for the dogs)
<oimon> off to lunch..haven't eaten for 16 hr and it's agony
<bigcalm> popey: hardware will be with me on Wednesday \o/
 * bigcalm dances a wee happy dance
<popey> bigcalm: yay
<popey> she sorted you out?
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't dance a wee it will go everywhere
<davmor2> s/a/and
<bigcalm> popey: no, I called up 150 again. Asked for an update. They had no record. Passed me on to an internal account department. They passed me back to 150 customer services but told them how to apply the upgrade and retain the discount
<popey> yay
<bigcalm> popey: at the start of the last call, the bloke asked me what I wanted to upgrade to. A little confused I said 30mb. At the end of the call I quizzed him on this and aparently we can upgrade to 50mb or 100mb and retain the discount. Just a monthly increase by 6.51 or 16 quid
<bigcalm> So, good to know for the future
<MartijnVdS> 100mb? nice
 * bigcalm rocked the boat and didn't fall out!
<popey> oooooooooooo
<popey> 100
<bigcalm> popey: think you could convince mrs popey that 16 quid a month is a good investment? ;)
<bigcalm> That is if you are in a 100mb area
<gord> bigcalm, don't rock the boat baby
<bigcalm> Rock the boat, rock the boat
 * bigcalm thinks that popey is on the blower with VirginMedia customer services ;)
<bigcalm> Or with Mrs Popey to get permission :P
 * exobuzz just wants the 10mbit upstream
<exobuzz> 100 would be better but
<bigcalm> exobuzz: I want never gets...
<exobuzz> lol
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Humm. What to do with my own bought Cisco N wifi router...
<popey> ebay
<exobuzz> post it to me
<DJones> popey: Reading that you'd changed over to spideroak, how do you find it in comparison to dropbox
<popey> ask me again in a week once I've set it up and used it for a bit
<DJones> :)
<exobuzz> popey, this because of the dropbox benig liars thing ?
<exobuzz> being
<exobuzz> and being able to get at your data when they want
<exobuzz> (or when the government wants, which is most of the time)
<popey> partly
<popey> I've been concerned for a while that the data isnt encrypted fully
<popey> whereas AIUI spideroak is
<exobuzz> yeh
<gord> interesting, i seem to have enabled some mode in evolution that makes it crash constantly
<bigcalm> gord: ah, the default action
<oimon> i call that normal mode
<popey> bigcalm: http://tarby.popey.com/
<popey> oimon: http://joke.popey.com/
<bigcalm> Evolution is not to be trusted with your email
<bigcalm> s/ with your email//
<gord> its normally pretty stable for me, but i decided to restructure my folders for email, no longer is everything in INBOX/foo or whatever, now its just in /foo/bar and /foo/baz - but thats too much to handle. it freaks out and segfaults
<MartijnVdS> This is why I love gmail
<JamesTait> Is this the part where someone interjects with "Thunderbird should be the default mail client"?
<oimon> Thunderbird should be the default mail client
<JamesTait> I thought so. :)
<JamesTait> Well, work is being done to make it so. But there is much to do.
<bigcalm> Mutt!
<oimon> !info seahorse
<lubotu3> seahorse (source: seahorse): GNOME front end for GnuPG. In component main, is optional. Version 2.32.0-0ubuntu3 (natty), package size 609 kB, installed size 2464 kB
<oimon> bigcalm: pine is more popular among my users
<DJones> selinuxium: Was it you that was asking about hdmi on natty a day or so back
<bigcalm> oimon: I like the default view of mutt
<selinuxium> DJones, yup :)
<nigelb> JamesTait: I take it you got back fine :)
<JamesTait> Hey nigelb - yes, I did, thanks!  You too?
<selinuxium> DJones, I was wondering as it is a HDMI to Composite cable, the graphics card is not being notified of the connection...
<nigelb> JamesTait: yup, day 1 back at work is almost over too :)
<oimon> bigcalm: u know how my pine users find old emails? they search and then forward it to themselves
<DJones> Did you get it working, I tried yesterday with my laptop + TV and it worked ok for me, just found I had to reboot to avoid any screen corruption
<bigcalm> oimon: :'-(
<JamesTait> nigelb: I'm only about half way through, and last week is starting to catch up with me. :/
<acperkins> last week felt like such a long week :(
<nigelb> JamesTait: I slept for 15 hours straight, which helped a bit. Still tired though
<oimon> my baby son has discovered that if he stands in his cot and shakes it vigourously, i come running :( ..either that or it breaks
<DJones> selinuxium: Mine was a straight hdmi->hdmi cable, the only problem I found was that I had to enable hdmi sound output seperatly
<selinuxium> DJones, I may get an hdmi to hdmi and try it on the other screen..
<JamesTait> nigelb: I wish I had that option! Altough it was nice to wake up to the sound of my boys laughing yesterday, even though I was still tired.
<nigelb> :)
<daubers> oimon: how old?
<oimon> 16 months
<oimon> he pretty much shakes the cot across the room
 * JamesTait heads off for lunch.
<popey> i was woken up yesterday to my 4 year old son shoving a a remote control car in my face "DADDY! Change the batteries!"
<MartijnVdS> popey: aww :)
<oimon> hehehe, my son has learned already that daddy fixes stuff. the batteries in his walking turtle died...rather than throw it across the room, he crawls over to me,does the sad face and says TAAAAAA!TAAA!
<popey> :)
<oimon> had to give him the batteries from teh wii remote :(
<popey> pound shop batteries
<popey> great for kids toys
<popey> I couldn't care less if they go dead in the device, they're <10p each
<bigcalm> Oh, that reminds me that I bought Lego Pirates at the weekend and should continue playing it this lunchtime :D
<oimon> hmm should try that
<bigcalm> There are more puzzles in this game than they bothered with in Lego SW Clone Wars
<bigcalm> A return to form
<oimon> looking at seahorse encryption, i wonder why it's not the default in nautilus
<gord> i signed on to psn during my lunch break. it was amazing
<popey> which reminds me I need to get some cheap hornby 00 gauge stuff
 * oimon checks his hornby shares
<popey> oooooo
<popey> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Model-Railway-Hornby-00-Track-almost-6kg-packed-VGC-/290564098877?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item43a6f84b3d#ht_997wt_815
<exobuzz> popey, train geek too? :)
<oimon> how much do you guys allow yourselves to spend on fun budget per month?
<exobuzz> as much as i have
<oimon> my wife and I have an arrangement - anything spent with fun budget cannot be questioned.
<popey> that stuff is for #1 son
<popey> not for me
<oimon> all other purchases can be vetoed
<popey> ahem
<oimon> ahem indeed
<exobuzz> popey, sure sure.. can i come round and play too? :)
<oimon> i'll be on the sclaextric
<exobuzz> the amount i spend from my "fun budget" on beer is always questioned
<oimon> i don't really drink anymore
<exobuzz> i probably shouldnt drink as much as i do
<oimon> unfortunately i discovered that beer was keeping my weight at normal
<oimon> when i stopped drinking around 25 , i lost weight that i've never been able to regain
<exobuzz> eat curry
<oimon> :( have a chilli intolerance
<exobuzz> lots and lots of curry
<oimon> since the same age
<exobuzz> s/curry/mild curry/
<oimon> hmm wonder if there's a connection
<exobuzz> i have a chilli intolerance today, after the vindaloo last night
<exobuzz> not quite the same thing perhaps heh
<exobuzz> it was only this one mind, but still has a kick http://www.sharwoods.com/Indian/products/sharwoods-goan-vindaloo-cooking-sauce.cfm
<oimon> is it a good idea to encrypt my files with the same key i used to create the pgp key i used for launchpad?
<exobuzz> that's fine. you only gave the public key to launchpad
<oimon> is that what ppl normally do though, or use another one?
<exobuzz> i think it's fine anyway.
<exobuzz> heh
<dwatkins> oimon: just got back from lunch and read the scrollback - my brother made a point of removing batteries from noisy toys before his kids got them when they were younger, so they wouldn't even know that the noise was an option
<oimon> dwatkins: yeah :) i do that for some toys, although others need batteries for other functionality..if only i can perforate the speaker with a sharp pin..
<dwatkins> my SO bought a cheap kids' laptop from the supermarket the other day, she wants to put the innards of an Eee 701 in it :D
<dwatkins> it has a cow on the outside, it's kinda cute
<DJones> I had a computer with a cow on it once, made by Gateway :)
<oimon> lol, you alsways used to see those boxes after christmas left out for the dustman
<oimon> giant cow box
<oimon> hmm why is it so difficult to disable the cache on chromium?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: hard? Shift+Ctrl+T -> new incognito tab
<MartijnVdS> uhr no that's reopen old tab
<oimon> MartijnVdS: i want to disable disk cache permanently
<MartijnVdS> ctrl+shift+n
<MartijnVdS> open new private browsing window :)
<MartijnVdS> just use those
<oimon> doesn't sound ideal ;(
<BigRedS> whoo! Natty's alt-f2 doesn't clobber middle-click paste :)
<hamitron> hmmm
<daubers> ungous?
<daubers> Can someone fix the topic? There's supposed to be another p at the end of that url :)
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 26th May 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Libraries,SciFi and Geeknicks! http://doodle.com/53dpqtd6qgbvdpmp
<daubers> ta :)
 * dutchie ponders getting a new monitor
<dutchie> recommendations for online retailers?
<DJones> Amazon?
<Azelphur> popey, I'm winning at pool mining on a single card, http://btcmine.com/ru/user/toplist/ :D
<hamitron> ebuyer?
<Azelphur> dutchie, dabs/btshop do cheap monitors, I got my set from there
<popey> dutchie: check the ebuyerspam for latest deals
<oimon> what sort are you after dutchie
<Azelphur> I called them up and tried to get a deal, "Hey I'm buying 6 monitors", I think the sales guys eyes light up :D
<gord> dutchie, ebuyer + samsung
<gord> <3 samsung monitors
<dutchie> oimon: nothing in particular
<dutchie> just want something to plug into this laptop to get moar pixelz
<oimon> just gave away some lcd mons
<oimon> gave my father in law an 18 inch NEC lcd that once cost Â£800
<oimon> it's amazing how prices have come down
<daubers> dutchie: Theres a company called added-dimension in reading who do ex demo stuff, normally quite good
<oimon> my desktop pc sucks with dual screen, i have gone back to single screen at home
<oimon> this seems to be the only way to disable disk cache in chromium: chromium-browser --disk-cache-size=N --disk-cache-dir=/dev/null
<dutchie> http://www.dabs.com/products/lg-electronics-lg-w2363d-23--3d-lcd-monitor-77LV.html
<dutchie> 3D!
 * dutchie tries to work out how big 22" actually is
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: about 55.88cm
<oimon> http://uk.insight.com/en-gb/productinfo/monitors/SAMQB2240 : less than 100 quid
<oimon> don't you hate it when websites auto-play the flash content/video? bbc site just did it to me
<MartijnVdS> Dell makes nice monitors, I've noticed
<oimon> MartijnVdS: they seem to be reliable - we have had 100s here, rarely any issues
<MartijnVdS> And lots of options in the menu, and lots of inputs available, and good picture quality
<oimon> except the max brightness seems to go down after a few years
<MartijnVdS> That happens in every brand
<oimon> i guess it would
<oimon> someone is giving a 17 inch dell lcd away on my local freegle
<Oli``> Does anybody know of a good (eg applies security patches!), paid (though cheap, if possible) FTP service? A client of mine uses his existing hosting to host his website and a FTP dump for his clients to upload things to him. His hosting has had several break-ins so I'm taking over the website but don't want to host the FTP dump so we need another hosting company to take over that.
<MartijnVdS> Don't use FTP, it's insecure
<MartijnVdS> plain-text passwords etc.
<AlanBell> FTP is ok for anonymous file downloading
<AlanBell> but then so is http
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: exactly
<AlanBell> Oli``: really sftp is very well supported, just give out ssh accounts and set the directory permissions
<kvarley> Oli``: You could create your own torrent and use encryption on the packets to send him files
<AlanBell> they can upload with dreamweaver or whatever clients they want to use
<MartijnVdS> webdav with SSL and digest auth
<krimzon2> how would you lock down ssh so people can only use it to transfer files?
<MartijnVdS> krimzon2: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/94
<AlanBell> set the default shell
<Oli``> AlanBell: We've iterated through that option before. He's okay with it but he already tried it with his clients and they're (to put it bluntly) idiots.
<AlanBell> so don't give idiots pointy tools like insecure ftp
<krimzon2> MartijnVdS: ahh, thanks
<MartijnVdS> krimzon2: mind the comments though
<Mez> Hmm... where do the kernel "audit" messages come from in syslog?
<Mez> May 16 14:45:52 hera kernel: [8257450.822541] type=1503 audit(1305553552.247:130):  operation="open" pid=27083 parent=27082 profile="/usr/sbin/named" requested_mask="::r" denied_mask="::r" fsuid=106 ouid=0 name="/etc/ssl/openssl.cnf"
<Mez> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9374 2009-01-07 18:43 /etc/ssl/openssl.cnf
<Oli``> And kvarley: It's not me and him that are exchanging files, I just look after his website. It's his clients that need to transfer things to him and as I say, they're a big bunch of middle-managers who barely recognise a USB socket, far from a torrent or sftp client.
<AlanBell> Oli``: what application are they using?
<Oli``> Explorer.exe !
<Oli``> (I imagine)
<AlanBell> webdav then
<kvarley> Oli``: Could you get some sort of page using https for them to upload files via
<Mez> Never mind. Just worked it out
<andylockran> guys, is there a simple method to run Firefox as the sole application on a minimal ubuntu install.  Fullscreen with no WM, preferably from an ubuntu-server iso installation?
<ball> andylockran: It should be straightforward to run Firefox in what amounts to a kiosk mode, but from an Ubuntu Server disc? Perhaps not.
<ball> On a conventional machine I'd just run it in place of the window manager, with -geometry set appropriately.
<DJones> Apparently firefox uses (or at least used to require) an X11 display
<DJones> andylockran: Maybe this might help http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/man1/Xvfb.1.html http://blog.martin-lyness.com/archives/installing-xvfb-on-ubuntu-9-10-karmic-koala A bit old, but perhaps will help
<andylockran> DJones: ball thanks.
<DJones> Heh, a couple of lads that have just come back from 2 weeks in ibiza have just been into our shop, looked as white as chalk, somebody asked them did they get the sun tan oil confused with a bottle of bleach :)
<hamitron> :))
<popey> DJones: didnt know you ran a shop
<DJones> popey: I'm in the accounts office, we've got 5 travel agents shops
<popey> ahhh
<DJones> Shops get some trade, but difficult times at the minute, main part of the business is luxury villas (Think up to $50,000 per week with butler, maid, pool boy, security guard, chef all provided)
<popey> wow
<ball> Heh... $50,000 would make a nice dent in my mortgage!
<hamitron> DJones: you've sold it to me, now just let me save up.... ;/
<DJones> As an example http://www.caribbeanluxurycollection.com/mustique/plantation_house/index.html $6,430 per night (thats not our website, but its one of the villas we sell)
<popey> I'll take two!
<DJones> One for you, one for the rest of the family?
<popey> exactly!
<popey> two separate continents please :)
<DJones> That could be arranged, Caribbean for one, Europe for the other :)
<DJones> (Only because we don't do either of the polar ice caps)
<DJones> I've just had to take a cheque for Â£43,000 to the bank and that was only part payment for one person + family (including his (about) 15 adopted children)
<popey> heh, yeah, you don't want a check like that sitting around :)
<DJones> Very true
<oimon> DJones: i don't think people who go to ibiza spend much time awake in the day night
<DJones> Just been looking the guy who wrote it up on the internet, 5 kids of his own and has fostered over 80 in a 29 year period
<oimon> s/night/time/
<popey> o_O
<oimon> any mention of btrfs at UDS?
<oimon> oh: http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/16/eldar-murtazin-microsoft-will-enter-negotiations-to-buy-nokias/
<DJones> I didn't know this "Nokia once used to manufacture galoshes and tires"
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/#!/DrPinball/status/70119002344660992
<ali1234> ha
<ali1234> i didn't believe it until that tweet
<davmor2> hello everyone again bloody virgin
<oimon> bigcalm: maybe it was as a result of the guardian article : http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/may/16/ballmer-microsoft-skype
<ball> davmor2: I read that in a Vampire voice, before I realised that they're a cable company back home.
<bigcalm> Hehe
<davmor2> haha
<bigcalm> davmor2: what's wrong with VM today?
<davmor2> bigcalm: just been offline since 12:45
<bigcalm> Poop
<davmor2> bigcalm: didn't you notice that czajkowski wasn't trying to kill me :D
<DJones> davmor2: I thought she'd succeeded :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: VM have done that to me in the past as well. Once I'm upgraded to 30mb on Wednesday I expect similar outages ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm still on 20meg
<oimon> VM used the cable london infrastructure for my area = fail
 * czajkowski smacks davmor2 
<czajkowski> there welcome back
<czajkowski> dont feel left out
<oimon> some areas are pretty bad when it comes to quality for VM broadband
<bigcalm> davmor2: for why?
<oimon> https://twitter.com/eldarmurtazin/status/70060475999715328
<ball> OH! My coffee!
<davmor2> bigcalm: till they can sort out why I'm getting 2 drops from every 5 pings I'm not interested in being able to go faster plus with all the hassle I've had I think they should throw me a 30meg anyway :)
<bigcalm> :)
 * ball has 12 Mbits/sec for the first year, then I have to pay US$ 10/month extra for 1 Mbit/sec service
<DJones> I see firefox 3.5 is going the way of IE6, warning users its out of date & being forcinbly upgraded if auto update is on
<bigcalm> Good
<oimon> davmor2: 2 drops from every 5 pings...hmm where have i heard that one before? oh yes, it was when i had VM
<oimon> they told me it was due to my antivirus
<bigcalm> VM provide AV
<oimon> i don't use AV
<DJones> oimon: Can I guess at the next line, "Ah well, its because you don't have AV then"
<oimon> and none of my machines were plugged in - i just had ping enabled on the router
<oimon> the line was rotten but they didn't care - the only way to "fix" it was to change ISP
<davmor2> oimon: they told me that till I told them I didn't have any then they put me through to tech who told me what the actual issue was and gave me Â£20 a month of my money back for the inconvenience
<oimon> took months of stress and phone calls - whichthey charged me for , even though it was their issue
<oimon> davmor2: you must have got an english call centre then
<davmor2> oimon: yeap with the direct call number
<oimon> i could only call in the evenings, and you get pushed over to indian CC
<oimon> VM are top of my hate list
<oimon> they also stole money from me
<davmor2> I'm hoping that the outage was them fixing it
<oimon> you can only hope/dream
<oimon> an engineer came and said i could never have digital tv on my line cos the signal was so poor (i had analogue cable at the time which worked fine)
<DJones> Here's one for all the keyboard hackers unhappy with the normal qwerty style http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/8/view/14607/keyless-lifebook-by-laura-lahti-fujitsu-design-award-2011-shortlisted-entry.html
<ali1234> "The Round Ducting Hose is a flexible round ducting hose."
<ali1234> thanks, captain obvious
 * ball snorts with laughter
<shauno> Silly question; does 217.0 jump out at anyone as being a significant value?
<seeker> Any context?
<shauno> it's temperature (in C)
<popey> not to me
<shauno> and very obviously an insane value (it should be somewhere slightly warmer than room temp, but well below PC temp).  so trying to figure out if the value itself is numerical significant
<seeker> shauno: Are you calculating something?
<shauno> trying to fault-find a piece of equipment that's telling lies
<seeker> Anything more specific
 * seeker is getting close to stopping his attempts to get blood out of a stone
<danfish> afternoon all
<shauno> well, that's just it.  something that should be room temp-ish is telling us it's 217C.
<brobostigon> afternoonings danfish :)
<shauno> was just curious if it rang any bells as being a 'magic number'
<danfish> shauno: 217C is the temp some solder melts
<seeker> What is the "something"?
<danfish> brobostigon: o/
<shauno> oh, something's a battery
<shauno> and it's not genuinely 217C.  we did check :)
<brobostigon> danfish: o/
<danfish> it's only Monday and 1740 and I've already has enough of this (working) week :(
<bigcalm> 20 mins to go!
 * ball doesn't want to go to work today.
<ormiret> shauno: that coems out to 490K which is suspiciously close to 5V in a 10mV/K sensor, so might be a short where the electronics is expecting a LM35 (or similar) temp sensor.
<shauno> that doesn't sound far off.  I've been trying to find out what the raw value from the firmware comes out as, but no luck
<rrrachel> grr arg, unity2d crashes really hard, probably because of gwibber
<rrrachel> really hard as in, had to ssh in from elsewhere and reboot. actually thinking about it, it was probably nouveau that crashed hard :-(
<Myrtti> awww
<Myrtti> I want a car
<Myrtti> someone is selling a Nissan Figaro :-/
<Myrtti> this is a new side of me, I don't know how to drive and I know how stupid it is to fall in love into something highly technical based on looks only
<Myrtti> but it looks such a pretty car :-D
<gord> got caught out by ubuntu asking me things on boot, when its a server so no monitor.. again
<gord> seriously, can we just get ssh up before we hang on "press x to continue"...
<davmor2> gord: no suffer
<popey> gord: yeah, that annoys me too
<gord> =\ lovefilm is recommending "confessions of a shopaholic" to me
<MartijnVdS> gord: it KNOWS
<shauno> oh man .. importing a 800Mb model into blender .. suddenly my laptop doesn't feel so fast
<MartijnVdS> You need more RAM :)(
<shauno> I know :/  it's on my shopping list!
<shauno> waiting until I can pick up an sdd too, so I only have to open it once :)
<Myrtti> aw :-( as if I weren't depressed enough about the state of Free and Open Source Software, FSF does a good job in 'pissing in their own breakfast cereal'
<ali1234> i'm depressed about the state of FOSS too
<AlanBell> Myrtti: is that something new?
<ali1234> but only because of how many people only seem to care about market share
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I've been hoping they'd get their head out of the sandpile and see the world around them, but I guess it's hoping too much
<gord> no one pays attention to the fsf
 * AlanBell finds it
<gord> its like a really angry loud fly hitting its head against a window in your house, its mildly annoying but doesn't do any damage
<peter343241_> Does anyone have a link for a decent guide to recording streaming video from a website? I've tried using screen capping software Instanbul and Desktop recorder, but the video is *very* choppy.
<davmor2> gord: is there something you need to tell us about your spending habits?
<davmor2> gord: that or your naff taste in films?
<ali1234> when i hear people complaining about the FSF this is what it sounds like to me "wah wah shut up and give me free stuff wah wah"
<davmor2> peter343241_: that is a tool to record your desktop not record streamed video
<Myrtti> ali1234: free stuff? erm.
<Myrtti> no.
<peter343241_> davmor2: Yes...
<gord> ali1234, ... really no
<popey> peter343241_: downloadthemall
<popey> firefox extension
<Myrtti> ali1234: I complain about FSF because I have serious issues with their agenda and how they manifest it
<Myrtti> mainly how they manifest it
<gord> they are currently trying to do what, send nintendo a bunch of bricks? geez
<Myrtti> indeed >___<
<gord> quick guys! lets mildly annoy some big company! that'll work
<ali1234> and now people are rewtweeting it like crazy. mission acomplished
<Myrtti> well, have to give them some applause on not doing their protest in a way that actually harms the customers
<Myrtti> like they did last time.
<ali1234> i guess we should all just give up
<ali1234> \o/ apathy
<ali1234> let's not do anything guys
 * hamitron is good at that
<ali1234> we should all just do whatever big business tells us
<ali1234> if they say they own everything we create with their gadgets then that's ok by me
<hamitron> meh
<ali1234> as long as it brings increased market share
<ali1234> because that's the only thing that matters right? having 200 million users?
<Myrtti> ali1234: I fail to see how sending bricks to Nintendo or booking slots at Apple GeniousBar or whatever to ask the helpdesk guys why iTunes uses DRM is helpful?
<ali1234> anything that anyone does which does not further this goal HURTS FREE SOFTWARE
<Myrtti> former is pointless, latter is downright harmful
<gord> ... you seem to be trying to make some sort of point ali1234, but its hazy and makes little sense
<ali1234> the point is quite simple
<ali1234> the FSF is not the marketing wing of free software
<Myrtti> directing our efforts to smear big corporations is exactly what we should do instead of trying to make our own stuff rock and surpass the big corporation stuff with quality
<Myrtti> not
<Myrtti> ali1234: sadly it is somewhat vocal and visible to outsiders, who think FLOSS people are bearded propellerheads
<ali1234> right right
<ali1234> i like how you think that people who don't use free software are outsiders, but yet you also are deliberately distancing yourself from the propellerheads too
<ali1234> so presumably there is a third group that you belong to?
 * hamitron just sees the FSF as a group of nutters that does have a few uses
<ali1234> the group that doesn't care about the ideals of free software and only wants their team to be the popular team?
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> it is all about the software! not about ideals
<hamitron> :)
<Myrtti> ali1234: I'm all in for the ideals of open source, but I've got a good streak of pragmatism
<gord> could it be that everyones different, has their own thoughts and opinions, we share similar goals and don't want to be put into neat buckets with the crazier side of our community?
<hamitron> what is ideal anyway?
<hamitron> ;/
<Myrtti> my pragmatism tells me that MS, Sony and Nintendo have been making an unwitting great contribution to FLOSS desktop paradigm with their consoles and enabling enjoyment of good games without PC with Windows
<ali1234> the biggest contribution sony made was when they demonstrated that anything you buy from them can be taken away at any time
<Myrtti> and while I understand the basic idea why DRM is bad, I have no problems with most DRM'd content (I pay for Spotify, DRM'd books from Waterstones etc)
<hamitron> ali1234: that I agree with
<hamitron> a very big lesson for anyone wanting freedom of choice
 * hamitron likes DRM when it doesn't "get in the way"
<Myrtti> ugh, I have now OD'd on chocolate
<hamitron> :D
<Myrtti> damned Green&Blacks dark chocolate easter egg
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: I don't _like_ it, ever. I don't _mind_ it if it doesn't get in the way :)
<gord> y'know those people who eat half a chocolate easter egg then leave the rest for later?... they are magic wizards or something
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: I'd like it more if it stopped people stealing stuff, getting for free what I have legally paid for
<Myrtti> if I see chocolate ever again (or for, like, a week) I'll vomit
<MartijnVdS> 0118 999 881 999 119 725 ...... 3
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ^
<gord> if you want to send your excess chocolate my way, i would be glad to dispose of it for you
 * DJones points Myrtti at http://www.firebox.com/product/2854/Bacon-Chocolate and hopes you aren't vegetarian :)
<Myrtti> gord: http://www.chocolate-easter-eggs.co.uk/green-blacks-organic-thick-shelled-dark-chocolate-cherry-ginger-egg *urp*
<Myrtti> *barf*
<MartijnVdS> Yarp?
<hamitron> glass of milk ftw
<Myrtti> I've got most of the egg and half of the bars left
<gord> oh dark chocolate? you gotta be careful of that, you can't eat too much
<Myrtti> benefits of dark chocolate: 1) gets rid of chocolate graving faster 2) isn't ickly sweet 3) isn't ickly fatty 4) nobody else likes it, so I get to eat it all
<Myrtti> downsides: because of 1) - OD on chocolate easily
 * brobostigon can only have dark dairy free chocolate due to his allergies, :)
<gord> my trick is that i let dark chocolate melt on my tongue, stops you eating too fast
<hamitron> you can OD on it?
<hamitron> o.O
<DJones> gord: That sounds like too much patience,  If you can do that with chocolate, can you eat a fruit pastille without chewing as well
<phonex01> hello guys im trying to login to my account on ubuntu netbook but when i write the password and hit enter and im sure the password is right i see blank screen and then ubuntu ask me to enter password again and i see on the right top an error message said that there is omething wrong with GNOME configurations
<shauno> this has to be the most mind-boggling UI I've ever used
<brobostigon> phonex01: ok, thats sounds like a problem with gnome3's gnome-session, do you have the gnome3-teams ppa ?
<phonex01> what is the gnome3-teams ppa ??
<brobostigon> ok, you dont have it then, otherwise you would recognise it.
<phonex01> how can i fix that ???
<phonex01> can i just somehow reset gnome configurations ???
<brobostigon> phonex01: it isnt the issue, i mentioned, so i dont know,sorry.
<phonex01> thank you anyway
<brobostigon> phonex01: bepatient, there are alot of clever people aound here, :)
<phonex01> i see
<DJones> phonex01: I would be tempted to log in as root, create a new user and then log in with that to see if its a problem with your user configuration or with the system itself, if it doesn't happen with the new user, its a problem with your user configuration
<Myrtti> log in as root....
<phonex01> how can i login as root ???
<phonex01> how can i do that ?
<DJones> Myrtti: Well, recovery mode would be a better description I guess
<phonex01> i think you press something like F1 or something like that so you will have a terminal ...
<phonex01> or it is Ctr+1 ??
<phonex01> how can i access the terminal ???
<MartijnVdS> ctrl+alt+f1 ?
<phonex01> oh ok
<MartijnVdS> or just open a terminal window in X?
<phonex01> then my problem is solved
<phonex01> ya i know this part
<phonex01> i will create new user
<DJones> phonex01: Don't do anything logged in like that though
<phonex01> oh ok everything is ok now
<phonex01> i think it was a problem with the user configurations
<phonex01> thank you all
<DJones> I wonder whether this guy is a FSF advocate? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13407712
<popey> He looks too happy
<DJones> (After the mention of beards in scrollback)
<popey> He doesn't appear to be flagilating himself with birch trees or wearing a hair shirt.
<DJones> ewwww A hair shirt?
<mgdm> popey: he could probably weave himself one without too much trouble, though
<popey> hah
<popey> i have an urge to play a game that isnt minecraft
<MartijnVdS> popey: try spacechem
<popey> not in software center
<popey> darwinia is though!
<MartijnVdS> popey: debs are available - http://www.spacechemthegame.com/
<popey> why is software centre giving me US prices
<ali1234> because you called it software center
<popey> i can pay in USD or EUR only
<MartijnVdS> Good, none of this GBP nonsense
<popey> golly, there's "loads" of payware games in USC now
<gord> nice huh :)
<gord> i never get to see whats in there because i'm perpetually on the development release :(
<popey> kinda surprised
<gord> really? i mean there are a lot of pay for linux games, more visibility is very attractive
<MartijnVdS> yay.. "Recommended for you: 6 PDF readers"
<MartijnVdS> *sigh
<ali1234> when i click on "for purchase" i only see 15 items... and only 10 are games
<MartijnVdS> "Family Farm"? WTF?
<popey> I was expecting 1 or 2
<popey> hence "loads" in quotes
<popey> :)
<ali1234> it's not exactly steam is it
<gord> i sat down to do something, i even opened the system menu (maverick)... what was it
<popey> heh
<gord> do you not remember steam? steam was basically 10 games for years
<MartijnVdS> gord: it got better.
<ali1234> family farm looks tempting
<gord> it did, i'd say the ubuntu software centre is doing great
<MartijnVdS> popey: If you buy that SpaceChem game, you get Mac, Windows and Linux versions, AND a code to activate it on steam :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: (Linux version comes as an i386 deb + script to convert to amd64 deb -- it's all mono)
<DJones> Panorama on BBC is quite interesting, tracking electrical waste (tv's monitors etc) after they've been taken to the dump
<gord> does it not just stay at the dump?
<DJones> Sorry, that was me, should have said council tip etc
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNGUgfHu7pU
<DJones> irreprably broken crt tv was taken to the local council tip with a tracker fitted, instead of being scrapped, its ended up in Ghana for sale
<ali1234> ^ it's between this and world of goo for best game on software centre
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: a little Sims-ish?
<ali1234> it's like sims except they're on a farm instead of living horribly unfulfilling consumer lifestyles, yes
<MartijnVdS> not really my kind of game, bit it looks really polished
<popey> well, i just installed a missle command clone
<popey> EMP
<popey> really good fun
<popey> very simple, but got my heart going :)
<ali1234> i'm only looking at the ones for purchase not the free stuff
<popey> ooo my kids would love he farm one
<DJones> 11.10 sounds like its got a few interesting changes http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/05/6-important-changes-in-next-ubuntu-1110.html
<DJones> Hadn't read any of that before
<ali1234> "large icons" lol wat
<ali1234> as if they are not big enough already
<DJones> ali1234: I thought that as well
<exobuzz> "No More Classic Gnome Desktop, Unity 2D Will Switch from Metacity to Compiz" hardly a feature
<exobuzz> :
<exobuzz> :)
<exobuzz> what harm is there in keeping the classic desktop. considering by the time natty comes out, there will still be a zillion gnome applets that wont work with it
<exobuzz> sorry not natty i mean natty+1.. ocelot
<ali1234> well the classic desktop need gnome 2
<MartijnVdS> ocelot won't come with classic, will it?
<exobuzz> i thought metacity would be ported to gtk3 etc ?
<ali1234> yeah but not the panel
<ali1234> gnome 3 already has it's own panel, and it doesn't support 2.x applets
<gord> it will prolly have a session you can install
<ali1234> and i'm not talking about gnome-shell
<exobuzz> "Applications will not require changes to work in GNOME 3" according to gnome 3 faq
<ali1234> applications != applets
<MartijnVdS> appletcations
<gord> gnome3 dropped bonobo, so no applets. sorry. they are going away forever
<gord> hopefully the ones most people used are getting replaced with indicators
<exobuzz> which wont matter "if" they get updated.. well i hate the desktop reinvention all the time.. it was never broken for me.
<exobuzz> i just dont like the unity
<ali1234> so considering that indicators can;t do graphics
<exobuzz> i guess ill go kde
<ali1234> how you going to give me back my cpu usage monitor?
<ali1234> i need that to tell when crappy software has crashed using 100% CPU
<gord> pretty sure my weather indicator does "graphics"
<ali1234> since it's hard to spot on a quad core until 4 things do it
<ali1234> then your whole machine locks up
<ali1234> it does an icon...
<exobuzz> ubuntu dont ever listen to what the users want. yeh i know i complain but .. ive had to maintain my own mdadm packages, patches against gnome power manager, patches against autofs5. all down to ubuntu breaking stuff.
<gord> you didn't contribute those patches back?
<exobuzz> of course i did. they are sat ignored on launchpad along with all the other patches
<exobuzz> the gnome power manager one is technically upstream. its sat uignored on gnome bugtracker
<gord> there are lots of bugs and few maintainers, "ubuntu" is a community, join it. get involved with discussion, bring attention to your patches and bugs, talk to people, because thats what ubuntu really is, people
<exobuzz> mdadm is partly fixed now. on natty. but ubuntu has tons of raid issues
<exobuzz> i dont agree, and i think ubuntu dont listen to criticism either.. remember the window icon discussion
<exobuzz> most people didnt want that
<mgdm> anyone seen any funny artifacts being drawn in metacity in the 'classic' desktop in natty?
<popey> i disagree exobuzz
<gord> "ubuntu"?
<ali1234> yes, me, all the time, a lot
<popey> "most" people don't give a toss
<ali1234> mgdm: ^
<mgdm> it's like the frames around windows don't get drawn over when switcing windows
<ali1234> i guess classic is basically unmaintained now
<exobuzz> popey, not according to a forum poll back then
<popey> exobuzz: not representative
<mgdm> ali1234: Hmmm. it goes away when I turn on the compositing manager, but that puts a delay in alt-tab
<exobuzz> well. sure.. nice get out clause ;-)
<popey> a self selecting poll of techies on the forums
<popey> my wife manages just fine switching between Ubuntu OSX and Windows
<gord> the only people contributing to such a poll are people that actually care
<popey> she doesnt care where the buttons are
<mgdm> anyone using online polls for anything significant are basically insane
<exobuzz> you could say that about everything canonical devs decide too
<ali1234> "most people don't care" is not a good reason to change it, sorry
<mgdm> they're just an amusing distraction
<popey> i didnt say it was
<popey> merely countering the argument that most peopld do
<popey> *people
<ali1234> it's true that most people who have an opinion on the subject would prefer them to stay in the old location
<Myrtti> I honestly don't know what I'll do with my sister's ubuntu machine once ocelot comes
<exobuzz> i dont like unity. im not alone. people like me will leave ubuntu if they force the issue
<exobuzz> simple really
<Myrtti> I'll probably move her over to xubuntu
<hamitron> exobuzz: gnobuntu
<hamitron> ;)
<exobuzz> hehe
<brobostigon> as long as ican run an up to date, gnome3/gnome-shell, i will be happy.debian, ubuntu or otherwise. but preferebly debian based.
<ali1234> good luck with that
<exobuzz> i do hope unity does try to look at the screen resolution for the icon sizes though in the next release .. i know i pasted this before but http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity2.png - annoying
<ali1234> gnome-shell is basically fedora's baby
<brobostigon> ali1234: we have the gnome3-teams ppa for natty, that is a good start,
<hamitron> what will debian be using?
<exobuzz> if linuxmint put more into their debian based distro with up to date xorg etc, it could be excellent
<gord> exobuzz, you can change the icon size
<ali1234> well knowing debian they'll be on gnome 2.x for the next 6 years
<exobuzz> gord. how ?
<gord> ccsm
<exobuzz> gord, the size of the main home icons ?
<gord> where all the config options are
<gord> i run 32pixels myself
<exobuzz> im not referring to the left hand side icons
<shauno> ali1234: I think atm, most would consider that a selling point
<ali1234> gord: he means the dash icons not the launcher icons
<brobostigon> hamitron: i fully expect, debian unstyable/sid to be using gnome3, once it has been tested,
<ali1234> shauno: indeed
<exobuzz> gord, did you look at the screenshot ?
<hamitron> would it really be that hard to have a metapackage to install Gnome based ubuntu?
<hamitron> if enough want it
<ali1234> hamitron: not really no and there will be one in universe probably
<brobostigon> hamitron: we do, gnome3 is there partly in the repos.
<exobuzz> on and an hd screen. you dont want a massive screen full of icons to launch apps. give me back a menu launcher
<hamitron> so we all have the choice anyway :/
<exobuzz> s/you/i
<brobostigon> hamitron: yes.
<exobuzz> and ccsm is completely useless on small screens also btw.
<exobuzz> users should be able to change icon size of the launcher without having to load that monster
<ali1234> the new control centre thing looks quite similar to ccsm, i imagine it's equally bad on small screens
<hamitron> ali1234: what sorta desktop do you want personally?
<ali1234> hamitron: i don't care as long as it has button on the right and no global menu and no dock
<ali1234> anything else is fine
<ali1234> oh yeah and works properly on dual head
<ali1234> as long as it meets those requirements i'll pick the one with the nicest theme
<exobuzz> gord, no answer to how to change the main dash icons then ? or you cant ? :)
<gord> exobuzz, you can't
<hamitron> so xfce?
<gord> its a bug
<exobuzz> 8 useless icons in the middle of the screen. nice design
<ali1234> xfce fails miserably at dual head
<gord> they are not useless
<exobuzz> ok. sorry. they are useless for me
<exobuzz> maybe others like em
<ali1234> i've never clicked on any of those 8 yet in two weeks
<ali1234> or however long it's been
<MartijnVdS> I always type
<hamitron> what is dual head?
<MartijnVdS> in that box
<hamitron> :|
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: two screens
<ali1234> i have banshee and firefox pinned... the others i don't know why i would ever want to click on them
<hamitron> so why doesn't xfce work on that?
<ali1234> hamitron: i dunno, it just doesn't
<ali1234> try it :/
<exobuzz> i appreciate your efforts, and i dont want to sound unappreciative. i hope unity can work in the future. just right now, it aint there yet for me
<ali1234> their monitor configuration tool just doesn't seem to even do anything
<ali1234> and when you have panels on more than one display it all goes a bit weird
<ali1234> plus you are only allowed to have 1 indicator under xfce
<ali1234> you can't have one on each screen. fail
 * hamitron is sorta glad he is tight with money and has 1 display
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> it does sound messed
<exobuzz> gord, speaking of bugs, this one is marked for "updates". considering the impact of this bug, how long can we wait for a downgraded package? surely a simple thing ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/762806 :)
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 762806 in mousetweaks (Ubuntu Natty) "[regression] shipped mousetweaks (3.0) does not work with shipped control-center (2.32), needs downgrade" [High,Triaged]
<ali1234> so back to unity... "check email" doesn't work for me... it just loads up evolution.. i don't use evolution
<ali1234> and i don't have any photos to view
<gord> have to run badblocks on a drive of mine before rescuing the data. 1% every three minutes thirty seconds... gonna take a while
<ali1234> of the other 4, three of them take you to unity's excuse for a menu
<gord> exobuzz, i have no idea about control centre
<exobuzz> if unity was "finished" and felt finished, then maybe id feel differently about removal of classic desktop.. i also think ubuntu should release late if things are not ready
<gord> ali1234, change your default mail application
<exobuzz> right now natty is useless for any disabled people that need mouse accessibility
<ali1234> and find files... is exactly the same as just typing in the search box that is already visible
<ali1234> gord: i use firefox to check my emails, there's *already* an icon for it
<ali1234> i would just have firefox listed twice
<ali1234> = pointless
<brobostigon> exobuzz: gnome3 on natty, has keyboard mouse control, for example.
<exobuzz> ali1234, i guess customisation of those icons would sort things a bit.i still would like a nice launcher menu instead though
<ali1234> there's an option to just show the search bar right? that's what i should use
<ali1234> the icons would be pointless no matter what they do because you can pin anything you want
<DJones> Oooh, Gingerbread update on desire hd available for download
<brobostigon> DJones: :)
<exobuzz> the jolios layout is better than unity on smaller screens as was the old ubuntnu netbook remix interface imho
<exobuzz> (http://www.eteanga.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ubuntu-netbook-remix-560x480.png)
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> that was always bad
<exobuzz> on the joggler it was easier to use
<ali1234> maybe
<exobuzz> as an example of a smaller touchscreen device
<ali1234> but that would be several hundred times worse on desktop
<exobuzz> i agree
<exobuzz> but then i dont think you can or should have the same gui on both
<exobuzz> thats a crazy idea.
<exobuzz> :)
<ali1234> yeah you're probably right
<exobuzz> you will end up with something like. erm unity. hehe
<ali1234> yeah but how do you resolve that with the desire to have a marketable image for the OS?
<exobuzz> ask the user? :)
<exobuzz> during install
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> that's no good
<ali1234> you need for people to see mr trendy guy in the coffe shop using ubuntu and be able to immediately recognise what it is
<ali1234> in order to drive peer marketing and desirability of the OS
<ali1234> this is the only way to achieve 200 million users
<ali1234> and that's obviously the most important thing
<exobuzz> he is not using ubuntu. hes using a mac hence he doesnt have a clue how to use his computer like most mac users ;-)
<exobuzz> or an ipad
<exobuzz> and hes not trendy he jsut thinks he is
<ali1234> actually he'll probably be using ubuntu on a mac
<ali1234> because os x is "way too mainstream"
<ali1234> this is the kind of person unity is aimed at
<brobostigon> or like some people i have seen, running windows on a mac,
<exobuzz> brobostigon, to play some games? :)
<ali1234> offering the user a choice of UI is in direct opposition to this goal, especially if the user chooses some ugly old OS like windows or gnome 2.x
<ali1234> it doesn't matter if they prefer it
<exobuzz> hehe
<ali1234> it won't sell ubuntu if people can't recognise it
<brobostigon> exobuzz: it silly, bsd/nextstep/darwin, is auchbetter system than windows, therefore it is totally illogical.
<ali1234> the shift is quite large
<ali1234> the idea seems to be to go after people who don't know what they want, because they are easiest to satisfy
<shauno> I'm not sure subtitles are compatible with zombie movies :/
<sandfly> i may have missed previous discussions but, is every one happy with the unity desktop?
<brobostigon> unity isnt bad, but i prefer gnome-shell personally.
<sandfly> ok so its not just me
<emorris> I severely dislike it
<emorris> it's annoying and fiddly
<sandfly> i am feeling more normal by the minute
<sandfly> have any one tried switching back
<brobostigon> sandfly: what do you mean?
<sandfly> their is a how to on switching the unity desktop to gnome
<brobostigon> gnome2 or gnome3 ?
<sandfly> http://www.geekgumbo.com/2011/05/04/switching-the-unity-desktop-to-the-gnome-desktop/
<sandfly> link
<sandfly> 3 most likely
<sandfly> at a guess
<brobostigon> sandfly: theoption is describes their, in simplythe gdm option, for gnome2.
<sandfly> ok
<sandfly> i was just wandering if any one have tried it. i may have to gave it a go
<sandfly> unity is doing my heau in
<ali1234> it doesn't work very well
<brobostigon> yes, in theory, i have three  options, gnome2, gnome3/gnome-shell and unity.
<ali1234> classic is now extremely buggy
<ali1234> graphical glitches all over the place
<ali1234> i keep getting artifacts of global menu
<ali1234> earlier i had the work "file" appear on the top panel. couldn't click on it or anything
<hamitron> :/
<brobostigon> ali1234: gnome3/gnome-shell is much less  buggy,and more consistant, in comparison.
<ali1234> but gnome-shell is a complete mess
<sandfly> on my net book its fine but my desktop its annoying
<ali1234> even if it has no bugs, i don't want to use it
<hamitron> why no use 10.04 for now?
<hamitron> not*
<brobostigon> ali1234: other than me using haiku, atm, gnome-shell fits my workflow the best.
<ali1234> what is your workflow?
<sandfly> that would have to be the way for now 10.04
<brobostigon> ali1234: ok,vnc to my machine, and watch me.
<ali1234> i recommend 10.10 over 10.04 btw
<hamitron> 10.04 is supported for longer
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> i suspect that by the time 10.10 is no longer supported, something will have been worked out
<hamitron> I hope so!
<hamitron> haha
<ali1234> you know that not all of LTS is supported for 5 years right?
<hamitron> 3 years
<ali1234> core desktop only gets 3 years, many packages don't even get that
<brobostigon> server and desktop, lts have different support periods.
<ali1234> brobostigon: i just want to know what programs you use typically
<sandfly> me to
<sandfly> or its looking like mint
<hamitron> if apps on the LTS are not supported, I should maybe use CentOS :/
<brobostigon> ali1234: gnome-terminal + byobu + irssi + bitlbee, chromium, empathy/telepathy, gwibber, and a few other things, like vlc, and libreoffice.
<ali1234> so basically you have given up on window management then?
<brobostigon> ali1234: i would rather have good workspace manegement, and let the window managegment up to the workspace manager.
<ali1234> except when you are using screen
<brobostigon> yes.
<hamitron> are you happy with gnome2 ali1234 ?
<hamitron> from 10.10
<ali1234> not really no
<hamitron> :D
<ali1234> but it's the most reliable desktop i know of
<dutchie> brobostigon: empathy and bitlbee? does one not do the job of the other?
<hamitron> you are voicing how I feel atm, with computer OSes in general
<brobostigon> dutchie: i use bitlbee fairly rarely now, as empathy has improved a huge amount,
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well.
<ali1234> thing is, most of the bad things about unity can be turned off
<ali1234> that it's almost usable, apart from the bugs and the unpredictable behaviour of the launcher
<AlanBell> I would like it to be moveable to the top, bottom or right of the screen
<ali1234> that won't help at all
<ali1234> i would like it to not interfere with fullscreen applications and then refuse to unhide itself at random
<AlanBell> that too
<ali1234> i would like it not to switch me to a random terminal out of the 10 i have open
<ali1234> i would like it to have a workable way to select the window i want if i have several open
<reaper4334> yeah, it's the lack of customisable panels that gets me
<reaper4334> that was the best thing about gnome2
<ali1234> it's especially annoying when i have a terminal with a command running in it (because i'm watching the debug out) then i click terminal on another workspace because i need to run some command, and it takes me back to the window where something is already running
<sandfly> i agree
<ali1234> middle click doesn't help here either
<ali1234> i want the terminal on the workspace i'm on
<ali1234> not a new one, not the one on another workspace where ther eis already a command running
<ali1234> but then if i click the launcher again, it shows me all terminals
<ali1234> but rearranged at random
<ali1234> and there's no indication of which workspace which one is on
<ali1234> so i still can't find the one i want
<ali1234> so then i give up and open a new terminal
<ali1234> resulting in hundreds of terminal windows open and i've no control over it
<sandfly> to rotate my desk top was what brought me hear in the first place
<sandfly> to take that away is bad form
<ali1234> most of what i do cannot be done through a gui anyway
<ali1234> i need a lot of terminals
<ali1234> and i need to be able to find the one i want
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I was going to try out scrotwm
<ali1234> screen is not an option since i can only see one at a time, i normally need two or three for a given task
<dwatkins> what a horrid name
<sandfly> that 2 arrow thing is no solution
<andylockran> :D
<dwatkins> ali1234: I assume you know you can split windows with screen
<ali1234> but i can't select the one i want by clicking, or can i?
<ali1234> another good one
<ali1234> i'll google for a how to
<ali1234> then i find a list of instructions
<ali1234> so then i click terminal so i can carry them out
<hamitron> summary: the window manage is suppose to make it easy for the user to manage windows..... and it fails for the way you work ali1234  ;)
<ali1234> and i get warped to another workspace and can no longer see the instructions
<hamitron> manager*
<ali1234> then i sigh, drag the window to the edge of the current workspace that overlaps the workspace with firefox on it
<dwatkins> ali1234: you can make terminal appear on all workspaces
<ali1234> then go to that workspace, then drag the terminal all the way onto that workspace
<dwatkins> or right-click to make it appear on a specific one
<ali1234> and then do what it was i should have already done by now, if unity application switching didn't totally suck
<ali1234> i don't want it on all workspaces, and i don't want to shuffle it around workspaces
<dwatkins> what are you trying to achieve, and could you just fullscreen your terminals and use multiple desktops, or is that still broken in unity (assuming you're using it)?
<ali1234> when i click on terminal, i want the terminal from the current workspace
<ali1234> when i click on the launcher it should NEVER EVER take me to a different workspace, unless i click the workspace switcher
<hamitron> agreed
<dwatkins> I don't know what the philosophy was behind it.
<hamitron> probably good for simple small screens, like netbooks?
<ali1234> it's to stop complete bigginers from "losing" windows
<emorris> Hi, I have regular Ubuntu 11.04 on one partition, with a separate /home partition, and have just installed Ubuntu Studio on a third, hoping to share /home. My home area is encrypted, but Ubuntu Studio doesn't seem to have what it needs to mount the encrypted area properly. Anyone have any ideas as to how to get it working?
<ali1234> bigginers lol
<ali1234> i'm getting worse
<hamitron> your fingers are on fire!
<hamitron> ;D
<hamitron> all the typing/ranting
<dwatkins> emorris: I'm not sure sharing a homedirectory is a good idea, how about a shared data directory instead?
<reaper4334> yeah, because the home directory usually has settings and such for applications too
<AlanBell> emorris: rake bootstrap RAILS_ENV=development
<AlanBell> emorris: paste fail, sorry!
<emorris> dwatkins, I wouldn't normally, but I was going to try it as I thought Ubuntu and Ubuntu Studio would be similar
<AlanBell> emorris: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedHome
<dwatkins> emorris: I don't know about the encrypted directories, but if you're sharing a /home partition, it's probably best to have at least separate user directories in it for each instance of operating system, otherwise apps will get confused when they stomp on each other's changes, especially if you have different versions of packages on each one
<ali1234> running unity --replace while in classic is not a good idea
<ali1234> so here's another good one: try running gimp in unity
<ali1234> by default you'll have about 4 windows 4 it
<ali1234> 4 it? geez
<emorris> dwatkins, hmm, I guess
<ali1234> anyway, if you lose track of say, the toolbox... you are pretty much done for
<ali1234> because unity won't bring it to the front for some reason
<ali1234> no matter how much you click on the launcher icon
<ali1234> so then you have to start looking "under" all your windows
<ali1234> because unity expose gives absolutely no indication of where the window really is on screen
<ali1234> or even which workspace it is on
<ali1234> so then you start minimizing everything on all your workspaces
<ali1234> by the time you find it, your whole desktop is completely messed up and you have no idea where everything else was
<ali1234> this is the kind of thing that happens to me on a daily basis while trying to use unity
<ali1234> global menu just adds extra fun because you're never really sure which window the menu belongs to
<ali1234> especially since half the time the focussed window doesn't look like it's focussed due to bugs
<reaper4334> I think it'd be better if there were settings for whether or not to use the global menu, instead of using classic instead
<ali1234> there are two things that would vastly increase the usability of unity
<ali1234> one of them is switching off global menu, and the other one is having a completely independent launcher for each workspace
<ali1234> so a different set of pinned apps, and don't show running apps fromother workspaces
<sandfly> that could work
<sandfly> got my vote
<reaper4334> yes, definitely. That, and more customisable panels it would be an upgrade rather than a downgrade
<AlanBell> personally I am a bit meh about the whole thing
<sandfly> lol
<AlanBell> it isn't anything that bothers me one way or another
<ali1234> great
<ali1234> AlanBell: so then you have no objections to the changes that i propose?
<AlanBell> What I think would be worth investing the time is making Ubuntu work well as a network
<AlanBell> ali1234: go right ahead
<AlanBell> so when I install ubuntu I want it to say, "is this your first Ubuntu machine, or do you want to connect this to another?"
<ali1234> "connect" how?
<AlanBell> and if I tell it I have another (which it can discover with avahi) then it synchronises the accounts
<AlanBell> and lets me move home directories about as required
<sandfly> i like that to
<ali1234> how would this work in practice?
<ali1234> my home directory is 300GB
<AlanBell> so I have my computer and there are three kids computers, I want to be able to log in as daddy on whatever computer I sit down at
<AlanBell> my home directory is on my laptop so would be mounted over nfs or ssh when I log on
<AlanBell> unless I wanted to move it to another computer
<AlanBell> at the moment I basically have four unrelated computers
<ali1234> i only have 1 computer that i use
<sandfly> i have 2
<sandfly> net book and desk top
<ali1234> netbooks are for messing around
<AlanBell> right now there is very little that makes Ubuntu awesome for an office environment
<sandfly> would be nice to be able to synchronise them
<ali1234> i wipe mine more often than i use it
<ali1234> basically only use it to test distros and software that's gonna crash my dev workstation - which is bad
<ali1234> by homedir is too big to fit on my netbook, i dunno how i'm supposed to sync them
<ali1234> that's not even including all my VM images
<sandfly> it need not be the whole home dir, the option to sync a folder or 2 like docs would solve that issue
<ali1234> you mean like you can already do with ubuntu one?
<sandfly> not in a cloud !!!!
<ali1234> what's wrong with a cloud?
<sandfly> i have some trust issues with it
<ali1234> well, unlucky then, i guess
<sandfly> so it would seam
<sandfly> the trusty mem stick would have to work for now
<ali1234> no one is going to give you a sync tool that actually works when there's money to be made from cloud services
<sandfly> i hear you
<ali1234> besides, big business is the saviour of open source, and anyone who doesn't agree is a propellerhead, or something
<ali1234> so you should just like, get over those trust issues and learn to love the cloud
<ali1234> (btw i am being sarcastic)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-17
<sandfly> i have no problems supporting the supporters, i just donât trust any one with my files, sosupportr no support
<sandfly> u must not of heard about sony and their saga
<sandfly> databases can be breached with enough effort and all that data in one place is just asking for it
<ali1234> i would never put anything i cared about on the cloud
<ali1234> apart from anything else it's unnecessary - i know how to run my own server
<sandfly> but people do
<ali1234> yeah i know
<ali1234> syncing is different though
<ali1234> if it's so secret it's not going on a netbook that can get stolen either
<sandfly> lol, nothing is bullet proof, its all about risk management
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> the real lesson that is to be learned from sony is that when you buy digital media with drm, it can be taken away at any time and without warning, no matter how much backups you do
<ali1234> i guarantee you that any DRM media you buy today will stop working long before the equivalent physical product
<sandfly> lol, donât get me started on sony, its pass my bed time, to all a good night
<hamitron> :/
<reaper4334> ?
<hamitron> just DRM
<hamitron> :/
<reaper4334> fair enough
<reaper4334> time for bed, goodnight all
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Explaining UDS Sponsorship - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/17/explaining-uds-sponsorship/
<DevilSolution_> lSolution
<DevilSolution_> hmmm
<daubers_> Morning
<danfish> moo
<AlanBell> morning all
 * AlanBell is off to the cabinet office again today
<DJones> Morning all
<danfish> morning DJones - I was thinking about those swanky holidays you sell - what discount are you offering for ubuntu-uk peeps? :P
<danfish> I think 40% would be reasonable
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just reading about Groklaw 2.0 and how ~20% of the EU's GDP is ICT related...
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110515173831922
<diplo> morning all
<DJones> danfish: 40% off would still be way beyond my earning capeability on a $40-50000/week holiday, I'd need a salary nearer to the footballers/football managers/tv presenters & national shopping chain owners, so if I can't have a decent discount, there's none available for anybody else :)
<danfish> DJones: heh - you can only ask :)
<danfish> 40-50000 on a holiday is just plain nuts
<DJones> danfish: This is true, there's not much you get without asking
<DJones> danfish: The customers we've got that pay that sort of money can afford it, its less than a weeks wages for them
<danfish> there's something rather wrong with that I feel, but that's for the politics channels
<DJones> Agreed, just worked it out going on news reports on the web about one guys salary, $50,000 would be two days wages (before tax) and assuming he's got the ususal tax advisors, he won't be paying much of that
<DJones> rather than a politics channel, I'd put that discussion in a #I've_got_little_academic_qualifications_but_I_can_kick_a_bag_of_ wind_around channel
 * TheOpenSourcerer fondly remembers his Honeymoon and when he could afford to use Relais & Chateau as his hotel guide.
 * DJones would remember his honeymoon if it wasn't for the litre of tequila drunk on the last night
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: we went here for a few days after Tanzania: http://www.mnemba.com/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Awesome.
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: That looks great
<danfish> that's looks rather nice :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> 11 years ago it was $1k a night.
<TheOpenSourcerer> each.
<danfish> I god food poisoning on my honeymoon and spent the 16hr flight back on the toilet :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> That is all inclusive mind you.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Even better pictures: http://www.mnemba-island.com/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - now it's $1.5k
<DJones> We went to Cancun, similar sort of view, was a brilliant place about 20 miles outside the town centre, nothing around
<danfish> Bali - before the bombing
<TheOpenSourcerer> When we went to Tanzania it was only a week after the Embassy in Dar-es-salam was bombed.
<danfish> This year it's a (probably wet) week near Bridport in Dorzet
<DJones> danfish: Ours will be a week or two in the caravan in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do except rest, read, walk the dog and relax
<danfish> DJones: what about the internets - shurely you must have the internets?
<selinuxium> morning all! :)   o/
<DJones> danfish: 3G if needed, although quite a few sites have wifi
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi selinuxium
<selinuxium> Mine will be a field with some very drunk friends and metal music for a whole week...
<selinuxium> Hi TheOpenSourcerer :)
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, I am playing with vTiger atm... :
<selinuxium> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Our holiday consists of Mrs TheOpenSourcerer taking the kids camping in France then me joining them for a few days in Paris.
<nigelb> hey TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi nigelb
<TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: I'm just estimating some work on vtiger at the mo.
<DJones> That reminds me I need to decide when & where to go
<selinuxium> looks powerful, just need to work out the glue... :)
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: tres bon! <--- limit of my french
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: So your holiday is while Mrs TheOpenSourcerer is camping with the kids :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: Correct.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I get to go to the pub every evening :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> And eat Curry
<selinuxium> Bliss...
<TheOpenSourcerer> And watch TV and have loud music
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: your wife should be nominated for sainthood ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah danfish She is really good to me...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mostly.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And the kids.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - must get on. Lots to do and concetration required.
 * DJones trys to decide whether to go North or South with the caravan, Option 1 Scotland/Cumbria weather seems quite a bit cooler, Option 2 south of the country, weather warmer & drier
 * TheOpenSourcerer feels that anyone with a caravan should be banned from travelling during the summer months,
<selinuxium> DJones, I love Cumbria... but then I live in Southend, so have sun and water (in English quantities)
<hoover> moin
<hoover> er, mornin all ;-)
<DJones> selinuxium: yeah, I like Cumbria, but I've always found the weather is that bit cooler and wetter, probably go south and find somewhere with 5-10 mile walks for the dog
<DJones> Its always better walking a dog when its dry, a wet dog in a caravan isn't the best thing to have
<MooDoo> hello all
<selinuxium> DJones, http://www.walkingclub.org.uk/book_2/walk_28/index.shtml
<selinuxium> DJones, you don't get much more south without getting wet..
<oimon> bodmin moor is a favourite place of mine for walks etc
<oimon> i have an energetic doggy
<DJones> selinuxium: That looks a useful website, I'll bookmark that
<selinuxium> DJones, :)
<DJones> I like Yorkshire/Derbyshire Dales with the dog, really good walks
<MooDoo> DJones: bakewell has some good walks and hills :D
<oimon> and tarts
<selinuxium> oimon, Chasing the ponies? :)
<selinuxium> Everyone likes a tart..
<oimon> selinuxium: yeah :D those wild ponies are great
<DJones> selinuxium: When I was walking the dog the other day, 3 horses & riders went past & the dog was looking at them wanting to go and play
<MooDoo> popey: puddings from bakewell, say tarts and you'll get shot :)
<MooDoo> why did i send that to popey ?
<oimon> :D
<oimon> driving around cornwall makes me feel like i'm in an episode of postman pat
<selinuxium> :)
<DJones> I quite fancy somewhere in teh costwalds area
<dwatkins> I remember driving around the south west years ago and having great fun going down a 1-in-3 hill somewhere with an escape route for cars with breaking problems
<oimon> porlock hill?
<dwatkins> oimon: sounds like the one, yeah
<oimon> dwatkins: going up it in a 1300cc golf with 5 men in the car was a bit scary
<dwatkins> I can well imagine, oimon.
<dwatkins> 'the UK's steepest A-road'
<oimon> would be more confident nowadays as i have a diesel that could probably drive itself up
<dwatkins> I guess there are steeper B-roads, ostensibly
 * dutchie gets to do his first long drive this summer
<dutchie> worcester -> torquay
<oimon> it's an A road because you shout AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh all the way
<MartijnVdS> oimon: who are you? Clarkson? :)
<oimon> MartijnVdS: lol, clarkson hates diesels :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: he would shout "AAAAAAAAAAh" on A roads though
<oimon> although i'd vote him for MP
<oimon> not for his politics but for his ability to cut through the crap to talk common sense when people are dithering
<Tommeh> <oimon> porlock hill?
<Tommeh> One of my old man's lorries took a nasty fall down there once.
<Tommeh> (Needless to say, it was another idiot driving it, not him)
<oimon> lorry? must have a death wish
<Tommeh> Young, stupid. Was "only" a small lorry.
<Tommeh> Oddly enough the brakes went and weee... Roll.
<oimon> we were on a lads holiday in minehead and drove to porlock hill just for the crack :)
<Tommeh> Minehead? You poor sod :p
<oimon> i think it was an event at butlins
<oimon> i was young...
<Tommeh> Yeaah.. I've been there. Used to go for the fairground.
<Tommeh> Years and years ago
<oimon> although i went to bognor more recently for a weekend...a bit better
<Tommeh> Anywhere but Minehead :)
<Tommeh> It's as rough as anything if you stray outside the family bits.
<DJones> Last time I went to Minehead I was 10 months old, did I miss anything?
<Tommeh> Nooope.
<Tommeh> Don't go back ;D
<Tommeh> Same goes for Tiverton.
<Tommeh> But there's not even a Butlins there, so even less reason to visit.
<oimon> oh :(
<oimon> i'm going on holiday near there lol
<Tommeh> Nice road from Tiverton to Exeter.. That's about the only reason to drive through :p
<DJones> Tommeh: A group of us are due to go to Butlins at Minehead next April
<oimon> i'm actually gong a few miles west of tiverton - intentionally in the middle of nowhere
<Tommeh> oimon: where my parent's live, or thereabouts.
<oimon> no wonder it was cheap ;)
<Tommeh> Cheap to stay: there's naff-all there ;)
<Tommeh> DJones: it may have gotten better. I could well be jaded by the state of nights out around Minehead.
<oimon> Tommeh: http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ptab=2&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&msid=112619599761742333476.000472d646d8c5f58c282
<dwatkins> I think I'd rather go to Aviemore if it's that rough in Minehead. ;)
<Tommeh> oimon: Ahh.. They live directly north of the A361 from there -- the Oldways End area.
<oimon> Tommeh: the intention is not to do much, we will be taking a newborn and a 1 1/2 yr old and some bikes
<Tommeh> Nice and scenic up there.. Nearly on Exmoor by that point. But genuinely nothing of interest bar scenary :p
<Tommeh> Fair play :)
<oimon> went to island of portland last year - best views in UK IMHO
<gord> 12 hours later, badblocks is on 52% :(
<oimon> Tommeh: mind you, i live in London and crazy people come here for a holiday
<Tommeh> Yes, crazy people. :/
<oimon> i want to leave the crowds
<Tommeh> Goin to the right place then I guess :)
<Tommeh> Growing up around there was a social nightmare.
<oimon> i bet lol
<Tommeh> Hence I live in the centre of Manchester now ;D
<oimon> i studied in Manc
<oimon> 3 yrs
<Tommeh> I love it me.
<Tommeh> Wish I'd studied here instead of Stafford :/
<oimon> rained a lot
<Tommeh> Microclimate.. Literally rains more than anywhere else.
<oimon> heh my best mate studied at S.O.T.
<Tommeh> Damn him!
<Tommeh> All the girls were on the Stoke campus :'(
<Tommeh> Stafford was just Engineers and geeks.
<oimon> yeah thats true
<oimon> i lived in dirty fallowfield in manc thoug
<oimon> filthy place
<Tommeh> Least it wasn't Moss Side ;p
<oimon> true
<oimon> didn't get mugged or burgled so thats a bonus
<selinuxium> DJones, http://www.sallyscottages.co.uk/pet-friendly-cottages   I stayed at Bank Barn cottage... was lovely..
<Tommeh> Stafford was rough in places. Small town syndrome for the most part. House I lived in got the back door kicked in.. For a Nintendo DS and some DVDs.
<Tommeh> Still, got us a new back door.
<Tommeh> (Which didn't have gaps in it)
<gord> my back door is made out of glass, good luck kicking that in!
<DJones> selinuxium: Thinking about a site in Exmoor at the minute
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<hoover> mornin
<SuperMatt> hurm, random pondering
<SuperMatt> a bit of me would like to see the menu bar become fully opaque (if you have transparency on) if you maximise a window, otherwise it looks silly
<SuperMatt> I only say that because firefox and open office look weird maximised
<MartijnVdS> I just disable the global menu bits
<SuperMatt> though everything else looks fine
<SuperMatt> also, maybe a simple lock button for the dock...
<SuperMatt> so I can lock it open from time to time
<BigRedS> Mmm, speaking of unity menus, I've got this weird blue corner going on: http://avi.co/stuff/blue-corner.png
<SuperMatt> that means that *something* wants your attention
<BigRedS> hah, handy
<DJones> BigRedS: Are you using X-chat
<BigRedS> oooh, it's gone away
<BigRedS> DJones: nah
<SuperMatt> it bugs me that you can't tell which one it is without clicking on ever app
<BigRedS> wonder what I focused through
<BigRedS> hm, thunderbird, firefox and terminator as far as I can tell...
<DJones> BigRedS: Its normally if something has highlighted you, the one I know does it is xchat, maybe empathy/evolution
<DJones> http://askubuntu.com/questions/38950/when-do-things-in-the-new-unity-panel-turn-blue
<BigRedS> Ah, so I might've opened something but not yet focussed on it, too
<BigRedS> still, there's really not much going on on my desktop... I'm a bit amused by that as a notification, though
<DJones> Heh, makes me think of a group of kids, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me
<bigcalm> DJones: I think you've found the definition of a group of computer nerds :P
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, though I kinda like the button-popping-out-of-the-side thing
 * oimon loves live migration
<oimon> AKA vmotion
<oimon> FYI http://www.ukuug.org/events/opentech2011/
<oimon> OpenTech 2011 is an informal, low cost, one-day conference on slightly different approaches to technology, transport and democracy. Talks by people whoÂ work on things that matter, guarantees a day of thoughtful talks leading to conversations with friends
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 
<andylockran> morning all
<brobostigon> morning andylockran
<andylockran> considering setting up an ubuntu instance on aws - anyone done this and know the costs?
 * davmor2 walks over and hugs czajkowski mostly cause if I have to die I want to annoy her one more time, covered in blood and me a dead weight clinging to her :D
<czajkowski> aww missed you too davmor2
<MooDoo> suresht: :D/me hugs czajkowski and davmor2
<MooDoo> oops
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski and davmor2 
<davmor2> MooDoo: D'oh
<czajkowski> there we go happy family
<MooDoo> czajkowski: prod, just coz i've missed you :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: hows it going me ole china?
<selinuxium> Where is the love, eh?
<czajkowski> selinuxium: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpYeekQkAdc
<davmor2> MooDoo: sound as a round pound on the ground
<davmor2> MooDoo: you?
<MooDoo> selinuxium: it's right here baby :) [said in austin powers voice]
<selinuxium> czajkowski, :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: rockin lad ;)
<selinuxium> MooDoo, czajkowski: Mwah!
<andylockran> lovely conversation :D
<DJones> Ugh, in a conference call with software suppliers who have just made a big play on the fact that their software is "point & click"
 * czajkowski is looking forward to friday for MRI 
<czajkowski> not bad request sent off 2 weeks ago, apoinment in farnham on Friday
<davmor2> selinuxium: have you not figured out yet we love to hate each other, but if anyone else tries woe betide them!
<MooDoo> davmor2: your right it's love hate, i love czajkowski she hates me ;)
<selinuxium> lol
<czajkowski> :)
<MooDoo> :D
<oimon> yay my aspire revo just arrived
<brobostigon> :)
<gord> new revo or old revo?
<gord> (is it white or black)
<oimon> gord: black
<oimon> D3700
<oimon> R3700
<gord> ah, that one looked a bit expensive for me
<oimon> Â£185
<oimon> i say "my" revo, but i got it for work purposes
<oimon> to run firefox on a display screen
<gord> ah no that's not the one i was thinking of, didn't know they did the more standard ones in black
<oimon> sweet, they even gave me a keyboard
<oimon> and a copy of webroot software :S
<gord> the most useful keyboard in the world (tm)
<czajkowski> popey: where is the hash key on a mac :s
<MooDoo> czajkowski: alt + 3
<czajkowski> ohh
<czajkowski> stupid keyboard
<czajkowski> thanks MooDoo
<MooDoo> czajkowski: welcome
<davmor2> MooDoo: that was useful and everything what have you done with the real MooDoo?
<MooDoo> davmor2: creeping to czajkowski in the hope she'll forget i owe her a beer for the rugby thumping she gave me
<MooDoo> davmor2: well ireland gave englad
<davmor2> MooDoo: now I understand how czajkowski put her back out celebrating the fact that you owed her a drink
<MooDoo> davmor2: glad she's miles away ;)
<oimon> this revo seems to come with linpus linux: doesn't accept "special characters" in the password...nice start
<popey> hehe
<gord> yeah no, linpus doesn't last long on anyones revo ;)
<popey> susprising given it originates from china iirc
<popey> which revo is it oimon ?
<oimon> r3700
<popey> the dual core jobbie, nice
<popey> black isnt it?
<oimon> popey: will lucid be OK on it, or would u put natty on?
<popey> both should be fine
<popey> my mum had lucid on hers
<gord> the one i have upstairs is dual core but the same case as my single core one, was kinda weird, was expecting single core
<gord> i have maverick on mine
<oimon> it's for a display screen - i will turn on security updates but nothing else
<oimon> linpus using gnome 2.20 , looks like the xandros eee pc setup
<andylockran> anyone else feeling really happy!
<andylockran> talk about mixed environment computing - running 4 screens with 3 computers + Synergy FTW!
<oimon> so there's no prob with the nvidia card or wireless with lucid? then lucid it is
<andylockran> OSX, ubuntu & win7
<oimon> no just need to figure out firefox and kiosk mode
<stuphi> . /usr/bin/byobu-reconnect-sockets
<gord> decided to re-connect my landline phone for some reason, instantly started getting automated spamvertisements on it :(
<oimon> gord: i hate those
<oimon> although if you want to shout at someone i think they say press 0 to talk to operator
<oimon> except for one the other day which said press # to unsubscribe :(
<gord> i have never let one get past "Please do not ha"
<oimon> then who do you rant at?
<oimon> the dog?
<oimon> pent-up frustration is a killer :P
<oimon> that's why i go to watch football
<gord> i work in open source, if i let things get at me - i would of quit years ago ;)
<oimon> or forked..
<oimon> popey: check the specs of this monitor - better than the LG one and cheaper http://uk.insight.com/en-gb/productinfo/monitors/SAMQB2240
<AlanBell> o/ sladen
<popey> thats sweet
<AlanBell> sladen: what is the status of the onboard updates? I know upstream are working on more theme support, not sure what happened to the update for Natty?
<sladen> AlanBell: nothing
<sladen> AlanBell: (in the end)
<sladen> AlanBell: but at UDS there was a great desire to polish this for O
<BigRedS> q
<daubers_> "onboard updates"?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: onboard = on-screen keyboard
<daubers> Ah, ok
<PalaPad> Afternoon all
<krimzon2> will 12.04 be a penguin?
<MartijnVdS> Pokey Penguin
<krimzon2> please let that be true!
<oimon> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/releases.ubuntu.com :(
<MartijnVdS> oimon: try <countrycode>.releases.ubuntu.nl
<MartijnVdS> oimon: http://nl.releases.ubuntu.com/ is still up
<oimon> MartijnVdS: according to the downforev... or your browser?
<oimon> downfor.. shows up & down
<oimon> depending on refresh
<oimon> works now :D was down for 5-10 mins
<oimon> gord: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/may/17/computing-opensource?CMP=twt_gu
<BigRedS> xs aren't as skinny as they used to be :(
<gord> oimon, yup saw that this morning
<oimon> i also saw the tour of the ISS space station on youtube, which is full of thinkpads
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I was bemused by the macbook comment at fosdem
<BigRedS> as far as I was concerned, I was at a thinkpad owners' convention
<oimon> they are an antidote to poncy laptops
<gord> eh, macs have their place, thinkpads are made for people that travel more though i feel
<MartijnVdS> Thinkpads are made to be used in areas where there's a good chance of it being driven over by a tank.
<oimon> i was thinking more of machines with led strips and glowing blue media bars, but we can include macs if you insist :D
<gord> some thinkpads have a red LED in the i
<oimon> i noticed that the other day on a thinkpad edge. i was shocked
<popey> hehe
<oimon> nothing a sharp pin can't fix
<PalaPad> <3's his thinkpad
<gord> its fine, honestly, when i'm sitting around with people who all have macs, the glowing apple logos really bother me, but some people are really creative with them
<oimon> i used to have a thinkpad 600E which cost Â£5000 brand new
<popey> AlanBell: i7-920 is what your server has isnt it?
 * popey just got some spam from RabidSwitch offering me the "opportunity" to rent one from them for 69 quid a month, 49 setup fee
<popey> 10TB bandwidth :S
<ali1234> anyone got the link to the bug where natty boot freezes until something generates in interupt? (like moving the mouse)
<BigRedS> Hm. I keep having things I've alt-tabbed to be not-in-focus, presumably 'cause the mouse isn't over it, but only *sometimes*
<ali1234> is it firefox?
<ali1234> if so it is a bug
<BigRedS> It's not *just* firefox, which is puzzling me
<ali1234> it can probably affect other things too i guess
<ali1234> it's a bug on the focus stealing code
<BigRedS> Thunderbird does it, which is understandable, but so does terminator
<BigRedS> and, I think, Xterm
<ali1234> if you switch to an app like firefox while it's got the blue ticker
<ali1234> it won't accept input sometimes
<ali1234> the only way to make it come back is to minimize it and restore it
<BigRedS> Nah, if I've firefox full-screened and in focus, with an xterm behind it, when I alt-tab to the xterm it's unfocused but above firefox
<BigRedS> (unless my mouse happens to be where the xterm is)
<ali1234> which is quite a challenge if you have it maximized since unfocussed windows have the window controls hidden
<popey> http://www.michaelv.org/ sweet
<ali1234> popey: KDE4 simulator?
<popey> Win 3.1
<ali1234> it's much faster than unity :/
<popey> hah
<ali1234> even if slow slow firefox
<popey> best response ever :)
<oimon> meh..i prefer  http://bellard.org/jslinux/
<ali1234> "hey yeah we're gonna use 3d acceleration to make the fastest desktop ever" "what do you mean, 3d acceleration on linux is crap?"
<ali1234> i don't understand how someone can make a whole simulation of program manager and it's really fast, yet launchpad.net takes 30 seconds to render pages
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: all client-side vs all server-side
<ali1234> this program thing is all server side?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> it's all client-side
<MartijnVdS> launchpad is server-side
<ali1234> launchpad.net is all client side
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: no, it's not.
<MartijnVdS> well, the rendering is, but the servers are slow :)
<ali1234> if it's all server side why does it make firefox use 100% cpu and freeze for 30 seconds?
<ali1234> specifically the thing that does this is the list of subscribed users
<ali1234> when it gets repainted
<ali1234> by the client side javascript
<MartijnVdS> sure, it contains client-side javascript
<MartijnVdS> but if it's waiting for the server to update a list.. that's the bottleneck
<ali1234> it's not waiting
<ali1234> it's using 100% CPU
<MartijnVdS> busy-waiting
<ali1234> it's not even busywaiting
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busy_waiting
<ali1234> you can watch it paint each indivisual user in the list
<MartijnVdS> it's actually using that CPU time to render bits?
<MartijnVdS> eww
<ali1234> i don't knwo what it is doing
<ali1234> but it does it incredibly slowly
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-May/033194.html
<ali1234> bug 605567
<popey> opinions?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 605567 in Mozilla Firefox "Extremely slow painting of launchpad.net bug details page with nvidia driver" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605567
<kazade> popey, good idea
<ali1234> popey:  is it the installer tracking thing? my firefox is frozen cos i tried to go on launchpad :/
<kazade> ali1234, it is
<ali1234> ok, my opinion on that is it's a good idea but only if it's done right
<popey> yes it is
<ali1234> specifically you have to ensure that the user actually logged into a desktop that worked before sending confirmation
<ali1234> if you just send a token on first boot you won't find all the cases where it booted up to a black screen and user could not log in
<ali1234> which is a pretty common occurence it seems
<popey> yeah, i agree
<PalaPad> Anyone with a website who is based in the EU have you audited your cookies/LSOs to check you are compliant with new law coming into effect om May 26th?
<ali1234> also you should ask the user at start of installation, not have some hidden bootloader option to disable it, that's dumb
<popey> be nice if it tied in with the hardware database thing they're planning
<popey> although if you can run that then you know the machine is okay
<ali1234> also it should do a count of how many people switch the buttons on to the right
<popey> :)
<popey> and a package list, and their IP and their credit card details
<ali1234> btw what are "product screenshots"
<ali1234> you mean like screenshots on ubuntu.com?
<gord> if we can get their webcams to take a photo, we will be complete
<popey> no, third party vendors
<popey> like that wifi scanner I mentioned
<oimon> pro puppet book got delayed again :(
<popey> gord: gps and 3g details too
<ali1234> you know i have a theory
<oimon> popey: surely vendors take screenshots of default OOTB environment
<ali1234> but i don't think you'll like it
<popey> also iwlist scan, passed through skyhook
<gord> if the user has a fingerprint reader \o/
<oimon> so that everybody recognises it
<ali1234> so i might save it for the blog
<popey> heh
<popey> feel free
<gord> i have always thought it would be nice to have something akin to the test pilot stuff firefox does but for unity
<oimon> ali1234: i read your blog the other day, i think we have something in common
<ali1234> that's odd because i don't have a blog :)
<ali1234> i know my website runs drupal but i don't put rants and stuff on it
<oimon> must have been someone else...hmm
<popey> your alter ego has one though, surely?
<ali1234> i probably should do though i mean it would probably increase my adsense revenue
<oimon> i wonder who it was
<oimon> ali1234: what's ur website?
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/
<ali1234> btw PalaPad i have not audited my cookies
<ali1234> i don't think it sets any unless you login though, which you are not allowed to do
<ali1234> google adsense might set some, idk, that's out of my control
<hamitron> anyone here got any recommendations for a book to learn GPU assembly language?
<ali1234> use opencl
<ali1234> don't buy a book
<ali1234> just learn it
<PalaPad> Ali, I suggest you read ICO advice on this, even if it is 3rd party like adsense it is still your responsibility under law to obtain consent
<hamitron> k
<ali1234> PalaPad: and what will happen to me if i don;'t?
<BigRedS> ali1234: well, that's the bit that's not been tested yet :)
<ali1234> ooo an update for flash
<ali1234> maybe it fixes the white rectangles?
 * popey chooses not to hold his breath
<ali1234> i think it's a firefox bug myself
<popey> although whilst watching a programme on telly about it, I managed to hold my breath for 60 seconds
<popey> quite poor really
<ali1234> no unity updates :/
<ali1234> is there going to be a ppa for unity+1?
<ali1234> cos i don't really want to install oneiric
<popey> http://gigaom.com/cloud/hp-pairs-with-nvidia-for-new-gpu-servers
<popey> one for Azelphur :)
<davmor2> ali1234: oneiric will currently just be natty plus imports and highly broken and possibly completely incompatible with natty too
<ali1234> i know
<ali1234> that's why i don't want to install it
<ali1234> but i want unity "fixes" that won't be backported to natty
<davmor2> ali1234: unity will be in the same position though I would image there is lots going on with it according to the videos of UDS and the talks I had with various team members
<ali1234> yes "a lot going on" - none of which will be available in the natty version
<ali1234> hence why i would like a ppa
<X3N> I'm sure the source is available
<X3N> well, can never garantee that these days but yeah, it's probably available
<ali1234> i don't have time to hunt dependencies
<ali1234> i need an official ppa that ican report bugs against
<X3N> then you probably shouldn't be using unoffical release
<ali1234> you're not listening
<ali1234> i don't want to use anything unnoficial, i want a ppa
<ali1234> that's the whole point
<ali1234> i do not want touse oneiric until it's at least alpha
<ali1234> but by the time that happens it will be too late to do anything about problems in unity (again)
<popey> Yup, makes total sense
<ali1234> this is a problem i hit all the time
<popey> Can't see it happening officially though
<BigRedS> 123
<oimon> 456
<popey> 789
<ali1234> report bugs against stable version: "sorry, we only accept bugs against trunk"
<oimon> sesame street?
<ali1234> report bugs against trunk: "well it's not finished, what do you expect?"
<BigRedS> hah, whoops
<BigRedS> nah, line number
<BigRedS> heh, yeah, terminator's a bit confused as to the layout of my windows
<BigRedS> 208
<BigRedS> gah!
<ali1234> lol
<BigRedS> really, I should use this as an incentive to stop making stupid syntax errors
<ali1234> i keep getting this with pidgin and firefox when firefox refuses focus
<BigRedS> or, perhaps, an opportunity to close terminator and start again
<ali1234> when ever i type in firefox usually goes to pidgin
<BigRedS> haha
<ali1234> haven't leaked any passwords yet luckily
<dwatkins> BigRedS: I'm curious, why choose Terminator as a terminal emulator?
<BigRedS> nah, when I'm in the bottom pane of terminator, if I go alt+up, rather than going up one, it goes to the top-right, where I have irssi
<ali1234> maybe the updated firefox that just got installed will fix it
<hamitron> ali1234: I've just had someone ranting on at me about the same things in unity that annoy you
<BigRedS> dwatkins: so I can have a few panes
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> hamitron: the thing is it's not the people ranting that they need to worry about
<dwatkins> BigRedS: as I see, I thought gnome-terminal did that, or others, and then there's GNU Screen, obv.
<gord> ali1234, the problem being that gnome3 lands this cycle, hard to make a ppa for unity that builds for natty without bringing in gnome 3 (and the same problems the gnome 3 ppa has on natty)
<ali1234> it's the people who don't rant, and just delete ubuntu and use something else
<hamitron> yeh
<BigRedS> dwatkins: I don't think g-t does it, and screen doesn't do it how I want it to :)
<ali1234> gord: yeah i figured that might be a problem
 * hamitron notes not to wory about ali1234
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> worry*
<dwatkins> ali1234: I was surprised they chose Unity so soon, it doesn't seem to be ready for release, imho
<hamitron> I feel they had to
<BigRedS> I figured it was probably as an incentive to get it going quickly
<BigRedS> pick a not-that-far-away release date
<ali1234> like i keep saying, it didn't work for empathy
<ali1234> it's still not ready for use after what, 3? 4? cycles now?
<hamitron> unity this time, gnome3 next time, stable the time after that
<X3N> ali1234: why can't you use ubuntu+1 then?
<stetho> I'm having a problem setting up an Ubuntu server as a router between two LANs (192.168.55.0 and 192.168.56.0). I've done the /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward = 1 and the sysctl stuff but I still can't get any further than pinging the other networks interface on the on the ubuntu box (eg, 192.168.55.x can ping 192.168.56.253 but not 192.168.56.x) Anyone suggest what I might have missed?
<ali1234> because it's going to be buggy as hell for the next 4 months?
<ali1234> i tried to use natty in alpha, that was fun
<ali1234> it crashed more often than windows me
<ali1234> that's when it would even boot
<X3N> use a vm?
<ali1234> heh
<X3N> or chroot
<ali1234> i will do
<ali1234> should get my 16GB by the end of the week then i can run lots of VMs
<ali1234> of course it will probably mess up with accelerated xorg drivers
<ali1234> that's other fun thing about using +1
<ali1234> video drivers never work until about 1 month before release
<ali1234> i'm not sure how people actually test it
<ali1234> that probably gors a long way to explain why unity is so buggy
<ali1234> nobody could even run it until the 3d drivers were fixed
<BigRedS> yeah, I did wonder about that
<BigRedS> when suddenly everyone went "I can use unity! Woo!" and I thought it'd been in testing for months
<ali1234> the trouble with using a vm though is it's not the same as really using it
<ali1234> testing it for 10 minutes just isn't good enough
<BigRedS> no, not at all
<ali1234> i needed to use it for 2 weeks before i could even have an opinion beyond "this sucks"
<BigRedS> And that hardware's only found in other imaginary computers
<X3N> you're better off with a chroot then
<ali1234> a chroot has all the same problems
<BigRedS> it's at least on genuine hardware
<X3N> what problems does a chroot have?
<ali1234> the chroot won't have all my software and files in it
<ali1234> i'll have to run it manually after every reboot
<X3N> nothing a quick script or two wouldn't solve
<ali1234> why doesn't firefox use notifications btw?
<ali1234> it still pops up that thing in the bottom left corner
<ali1234> i mean bottom right
<popey> 16:06:22 < ali1234> i'm not sure how people actually test it
<popey> most developers use intel gfx I suspect
<popey> so aren't hit by many of the stupid nvidia/ati issues
<ali1234> so in other words they only test it on one hardware configuration that hardly anyone uses
<popey> well for natty that's certainly common
<ali1234> and then they wonder why everyone says it's really buggy
<popey> nobody seemed to care about the fact that nvidia was broken for most of that cycle
<ali1234> quite a few people cared
<popey> well, I'm looking at canonical
<ali1234> unfortunately nobody could do anything about it
<ali1234> it's not like it's just that cycle as well
<ali1234> nvidia breaks every single time, so does ati
<ali1234> quite often intel does too
<popey> it was worse this time
<X3N> a lot of people do use intel graphics though
<popey> longer period
<ali1234> also what happened to "unity will work on nouveau so it doesn't matter"
<oimon> popey: however some people (e.g. mpt) hadn't run unity until very late in the process
<popey> yup, confirming my point
<hamitron> did anything major change from 10.04 to 10.10?
<ali1234> not really no
<ali1234> pulseaudio started mostly working
<ali1234> that's another good example of putting things in before they are ready, that also took 3 or 4 cycles before it actually worked properly
<ali1234> and it's still not quite there
<hamitron> I've sometimes thought it would be better to not have a release 6 months after the LTS release
<ali1234> why?
<popey> the so called "cowboy release"
<hamitron> spend a full year making big changes to polish for the next LTS
<BigRedS> ah, six months before an LTS, then?
<hamitron> no
<ali1234> natty is the cowboy release :/
<ali1234> 10.10 was an improvement over 10.04
<hamitron> release the LTS, spend a year making big changes, one after that is small tweaks, next LTS has super support
<hamitron> :)
<DJones> I'd say 11.04 was probably the best time to introduce unity though, halfway between LTS versions, couldn't change at LTS because of the major change, LTS+1 is probably too short notice, LTS+2 makes sense to change, LTS+3 to improve & solve problems still outstanding, then introduce into next LTS
<ali1234> they have spent a year making big changes
<ali1234> it's not like they put unity in 10.10
<hamitron> I'd have cancelled 10.10, to make 11.04 better
<ali1234> how would that work?
<hamitron> put the improvements from 10.10 into 10.04
<ali1234> that makes no sense
<hamitron> rather than make a short support release
<hamitron> well
<ali1234> how would that improve 11.04?
<hamitron> I don't see a point to the short term support release, after the lts
<ali1234> the point is not many people want to use the old out of date stuff in a LTS
<ali1234> largely because there's only bugfix support
<hamitron> it would have moved focus away from releasing another distro, allowing full focus for the big changes
<DJones> hamitron: People like Shiny, New.... etc
<BigRedS> and if the improvements ahve gone into 10.10, they've missed 10.04...
<ali1234> if you need some new feature, you don't get any support
<hamitron> DJones: they have shiny new in unity ;)
<DJones> Yep, but there's always shiny, new in every release
<ali1234> what they should actually do is keep gnome classic until after the next LTS
<ali1234> by then, unity might actually be ready
<BigRedS> ali1234: if they really want peopel to switch to unity, they wont
<hamitron> ali1234: that may have been better
<ali1234> BigRedS: if they really want people to switch to unity, how about fixing the bugs?
<BigRedS> if unity's made to look like a replacement - i.e. no more gnome, here's unity - people are way more likely to treat it as such
<BigRedS> rather than as an alternative
<BigRedS> yeah, what *should* have happened, IMO, is not releasing unity until 11.10
<ali1234> it won't be ready by 11.10
<BigRedS> but we're getting towards the release-it-when-its-ready model that way, and one thing people love about Ubuntu is it's not that
<ali1234> it might be ready by 12.04
<ali1234> *maybe*
<kazade> I think we really need a continuous testing release..
<BigRedS> It's not that broken, IME. It's just got a bunch of niggles
<ali1234> when it finally is ready then classic gnome should still be an option for one more LTS
<BigRedS> It reminds me of gnome 2.x from a few years back
<hamitron> and it wouldn't be a good idea putting something weird and wacky, untested, in a LTS :/
<BigRedS> well, from before ubuntu finished it, really :)
<ali1234> the point is there's no use saying "they should have done..."
<ali1234> we are where we are
<hamitron> I'd say "we should do....."
<ali1234> the correct thing to do *now* is to keep classic in 12.04
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> drop it in 12.10
<hamitron> the only problem with that, is it is delaying inovation by 2 years
<ali1234> it's not delaying anything
<hamitron> the first LTS with unity would be 2014
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> if "innovation" has to be forced it's not worth it
<ali1234> hamitron: you're not listening
<ali1234> why does nobody ever listen?
<hamitron> I agree with you ali1234
<ali1234> unity is in 11.04
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> it will be in 11.10
<ali1234> and it will be in 12.04
<hamitron> oh, so you mean leave a choice in 12.04?
<ali1234> the correct thing is to keep classic in 11.10 and 12.04 AS WELL
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> at 12.04 unity might actually be good enough to compete on it's own merits
<hamitron> with unity as default?
<ali1234> sure, as default, i don't care
<BigRedS> ali1234: but if you keep the choice there, people won't use unity, unit wont be properly tested, and unity wont be fixed
<ali1234> ha
<ali1234> so you admit that, given the choice, people don't want to use unity?
<ali1234> but you don't see this as a problem?
<BigRedS> that's the problem with not saying "Bam. Herein you don't use Gnome, you use unity"
<hamitron> the idea is to have "freedom" and "choice" ;)
<BigRedS> ali1234: of course, I'm still using Gnome 2.x on systmems where I need to be productive
<BigRedS> My laptop's been Debian for years, because _every_ ubuntu upgrade breaks something subtly
<ali1234> the argument that you have to force people to use something to get it tested and fixed has been shown to be false so many times now
<BigRedS> hamitron: you'd still have that - there's nothing stopping people installing gnome 2.x on any future version than there is them installing IceWM or whatever on current versions
<ali1234> look at empathy, look at pulse
<ali1234> people just remove them
<ali1234> because they don't work properly
<ali1234> pulseaudio is just about getting to the point where it should actually be used
<BigRedS> surely if they'd just remove them, then they'd just not use them were they shipped as the default alternative
<BigRedS> and they may as well not be there at all
<ali1234> i agree
<popey> some people remove it
<popey> not all
<popey> some battle on
<ali1234> they may as well not be there, until they are ready
<BigRedS> I'd not use unity through choice, I'm quite happy with gnome 2.x
<ali1234> forcing people to beta test them for you doesn't work
<BigRedS> but, given that ubuntu's dropping gnome 2.x and work stipulate ubuntu, it makes sense that I use unity now
<ali1234> if it did pulse would have been fixed a year and a half ago
<hamitron> popey the warrior
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> and it's especially bad given what i pointed out earlier
<BigRedS> incidentally, I'm running gnome3 at home and that's waaaaaay more infuriating than ubuntu
<BigRedS> s/ubuntu/unity/
<BigRedS> ruddy ^u based muscle memory
<hamitron> to be fair to ubuntu, there is lts for those that don't want to test new.....
<ali1234> you stick pulse into the distro to get people to test it, but then nobody cares about bugs reports against stable anyway
<ali1234> so what's the point?
<BigRedS> hamitron: but LTS *is* the new when it's released
<BigRedS> they just get it less frequently
<ali1234> hamitron: 10.04 has pulse, but it's an ancient version and is even worse than what's in 10.10, and nobody is interested in fixing bugs in it unless they are security bugs
<oimon> revo wireless isn't working for me - popey is mrs popey using wireless on hers
<hamitron> BigRedS: yeh, I leave it 6 months before getting it :)
<popey> oimon: ya, it's configured and working
<popey> oimon: 05:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR5001 Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)
<popey> its one of them
<hamitron> ali1234: it is a shame if it is so much better :/
<oimon> popey: oh..i have somewhat different wifi
<ali1234> hamitron: 10.10 is the first version of pulse that doesn't stutter and use massive amounts of CPU constantly
<ali1234> the version in 10.10 that is
<popey> oimon: mine isnt the 3700
<oimon> ah
<oimon> i'll try natty server edition then :D
<oimon> maybe slap lxde on it
<davmor2> oimon: plugin a cable and use the proposed kernel it has a patch and make sure the bios has it enabled by default
<oimon> davmor2: woo thanks
<davmor2> oimon: oh hang on that is for the atheros ar5001
<davmor2> oimon: if yours is different it might not
<hamitron> oimon: I'd use the desktop alternative cd
<hamitron> oimon: or lbuntu
<hamitron> it is lbuntu?
<hamitron> lubuntu
<hamitron> !lubuntu
<lubotu3> lubuntu is a project to create a derivative of Ubuntu using the LXDE desktop environment. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu . /join #lubuntu for lubuntu support.
<oimon> davmor2: woops just got back from adding propsed :P
<oimon> it's the ralink rt3090
<davmor2> oimon: the same patch might be in effect then, the current driver is defaulted to off
<davmor2> oimon: the patch makes it abide by what the bios sets it as
<oimon> bug 541620
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 541620 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "Ralink RT3090 Wireless Not Supported in Lucid" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/541620
<oimon> news at 5pm: wireless on ubuntu still sucks
<gord> is it really apt to say "still" when talking about software a year old?
<ali1234> if it hasn't changed in a year, then yes
<ali1234> i find wireless sucks everywhere tbh
<oimon> davmor2: well done, you managed to serendipitously fix my problem
<davmor2> oimon: I had the same issue but on  the AR5001 chipset so work with the kernel guys to at least get everything up and running
<oimon> enabling proposed fixed the problem with the rt3090
<BigRedS> my only wifi problems recently seem to have been network-manager problems really
<oimon> i think i had already installed modules-wireless beforehand
<gord> stupid driver for my wifi chipset doesn't support N :(
<gord> sooo still running wired for now
<oimon> ugh my wifi just disconnected...bit patchy it seems
<oimon> i still haven't found a reliable source of PCI/usb wifi cards
<oimon> that are guaranteed with ubuntu...most wikis are out of date and incorrect
<davmor2> oimon: Broadcom with the bcm_sta is about as reliable as it gets I think oh and intel
<gord> honestly, whenever i shop for hardware i google "<hardwarename> ubuntu" - works out fairly well for me
<oimon> intel do pci/usb ones?
<oimon> gord: except u need the PCI id since  chipsets vary even for the same model number
<davmor2> oimon: they do pci but it's silly money cheaper to get the broadcom one
<oimon> davmor2: can you recommend a speicific one?
<oimon> for my desktop
<popey> i have a good one that I got off amazon oimon
<gord> oimon, if it gets down to that, i keep shopping
<oimon> i'm all ears
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0035FVL4G/ref=oss_product
<davmor2> oimon: all my usb ones came with the router
<popey> tenner :)
<popey> and mentioned Ubuntu in the description
<oimon> popey: wow, good signal?
<popey> never tested the signal
<popey> it works in my house
 * bigcalm grabs a couple
<popey> actually, thinking about it, I should get one for my server
<gord> wish i got higher speeds on my ethernet over power thing, i mean, it works okay for my revo upstairs, but suuucks for HD content
<popey> rather than use ethernet over power
<oimon> this one seems to have gained OOTB ubuntu more recently: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Edimax-EW-7711UAN-150mbs-Wireless-Adapter/dp/B001KOTDDU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
<oimon> i like a high gain one
<gord> one day we'll tell our kids about how hard just getting two machines to talk to each other in different rooms was, they won't believe us
<DJones> popey: Have you seen this ethernet over power up to 500 Mbps http://www.netgear.co.uk/home/products/powerline-and-coax/high-performance/XAVB5001.aspx
<popey> heh
<popey> "up to"
<popey> like ADSL "up to" 8Mb
<davmor2> oimon: I have an edimax it is okay it has a broadcom chip in it though
<DJones> ~56Kbs then :)
<gord> i think mine is "up to" 100mb, i get around 8mb
<DJones> I wonder how often people get higher speeds than the "up to" quoted by isp's
<hamitron> mine is "upto 8mbit" and I get 0.7mbit.... so stop complaining
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> erk
<DJones> hamitron: Sounds like you need to feed the carrier pidgeon a bit more often
 * popey hides his 3.7MB/s
<hamitron> DJones: I think someone has shot it
<hamitron> ;)
<DJones> hamitron: Lead weights will weigh it down
<hamitron> tbh, I am happy with my speed
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> just think "wtf" when I read some of teh speeds some are quoting or complaining about
<hamitron> then realise why people don't worry about filling webpages with loads of media and clutter, slowing everything down
<gord> hamitron, i'm talking about my internal ethernet here :)
<hamitron> ah
<hamitron> that makes me feel better
<hamitron> :D
 * hamitron has 1gbit
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> did someone say they have a revo running natty?
<gord> i use gigabit where it counts :)
<gord> popey, not tried with mine yet, but they should just work right?
 * popey upgrades
<gord> something i learnt today, uk vending machines seem to accept 10 florints as 10p. i should use this knowledge to become super rich.
<popey> wonder if an ssd in a revo would make it fly more
<MartijnVdS> maybe through a window :P
<DJones> gord: Is that Aruban Florin's? SOunds a bad idea in that case, 10 of those is showing as being worth Â£3.43
<popey> more ram wouldnt hurt too
<bigcalm> Hummz
<bigcalm> Still using mine as a server
<popey> mine is basically idle
<skybinary> hello ubuntu-uk :)
<bigcalm> Seems to work ok with 2gb
<gord> DJones, 1 Hungarian forint = 0.00326042758 British pounds
<bigcalm> Hello
<DJones> gord: No worries, was looking at a different country on my exchange list
<gord> using my revo as a xbmc install with no local content, so it basically never hits the drive once everythings loaded, seems fine to me
<skybinary> hi I installed 11.04, different is'nt it
<gord> yup
<bigcalm> popey: if your revo is idle, what are your Viglen MPC-Ls doing?
<popey> in a drawer
<MartijnVdS> even more idle
<bigcalm> Great ideas, shame that tech moves on so quickly and cheaply
<popey> I honestly can't think of a use for my viglen
<popey> I clearly lack imagination
 * skybinary searches google for viglen
<brobostigon> mpc-l*
<bigcalm> popey: One of my 2 are living at my parents' place as a simple file server
<popey> ahh
<bigcalm> Does that and nothing more. Just about works
<popey> :)
<popey> samba?
<bigcalm> Yep
<gord> keep meaning to get some hardware to replace my server, would like a proper RAID NAS and a separate server to do servery things
 * popey hugs his HP Microserver
<skybinary> awww
<skybinary> i think i need to re-install vbox
<gord> i'm rather motived right now to get a RAID going, mainly because a drive just died... but spent too much on new laptop
<skybinary> it was due for an update before i upgraded to 11.04 any hoo
<popey> I have 4x 2TB disks as RAID10 in my microserver
<popey> bit overkill
<MartijnVdS> there's no kill like overkill
<gord> well you say that, but you don't have to deal with "Checking for bad blocks (read-only test):  20.04% done, 5:08:58 elapsed"
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> angry birds leads to angry people. fact
<awilkins> What channel can I go to for ALSA driver developers?
<skybinary> help, a terminal keeps popping up speaking every time i close it it re-spawns
<awilkins> Aha, #alsa
<MartijnVdS> skybinary: speaking?
<MartijnVdS> skybinary: what does it say
<skybinary> yes
<skybinary> MartijnVdS, sounds like 'welcome talker, current desktop environment in unity'
<skybinary> MartijnVdS, i set off the 10.10-11.04 upgrade before i left for work
<gord> your computer has become sentient. abandon all hope. form the resistance.
<skybinary> i just got back and this is my first boot up and out of the blue a terminal opened
<MartijnVdS> did you enable assistive technology?
<skybinary> omg its the RAPTURE!
<MartijnVdS> skybinary: you can disable assistive tech from the login menu, or in your session from the "power" button (top right) -> system settings
<skybinary> MartijnVdS, yes i remember seeing that i must have clicked something
<skybinary> its quite pretty this unity huh?
<shauno> I wonder how many people have assistive tech just because the 'people are keyboards' boot icon is so incredibly vague ;)
<bigcalm> Is that what that is?
<popey> that doesnt enable assistive on its own
<popey> just brings up the menu
<skybinary> MartijnVdS, that option is already disabled umm
<shauno> really?  never seen that, and I tend to mash the keyboard in an attempt to make the screen go away
<skybinary> very pretty
<skybinary> i found it in processes 'orca' now to figure out how to stop it and what on earth started it in the 1st place
<AlanBell> popey: I think one is a 920, the other is a 980 extreme
<AlanBell> skybinary: it is saying "welcome to orca"
<davmor2> AlanBell: set orca to blackcountry voice
<AlanBell> davmor2: I can do
<davmor2> AlanBell: it's funny
<AlanBell> I wrote a speech dispatcher config file for openMARY, I am sure I can make it do black country
<AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk:59125/
<skybinary> AlanBell, i figured that out when i looked into processes
<AlanBell> play with the voices and settings
<skybinary> AlanBell, its wide playground right now
<skybinary> is very pretty , upgraded vbox delightfully, bluetooth out-of-the-box, need to see processor and net graphs now, but this is not gnome
<skybinary> i have speech-dispatcher in applications of sound preferences
<AlanBell> top tip, don't start orca on a commuter train with the laptop volume on full
<brobostigon> lol
<AlanBell> another top tip (with a bit of name dropping) when you go to a meeting at the cabinet office you can park a boris bike in the treasury building when all the racks in london seem to be full
<gord> i'll make not of that for all those meetings i have at the cabinet office
<AlanBell> home at last
 * brobostigon gets AlanBell a beer.
<AlanBell> thanks, I needed one
<brobostigon> :) you're welcome.
 * brobostigon gets himself one, aswell.
<X3N> agh my organs
<X3N> far too much coffee today
<Azelphur> popey, haha, interesting but nvidia is bad at integer math and that's what I need :p
<davmor2> czajkowski: NO IT DOESN'T!!!!!!! angry birds is a very calming influence
<shauno> heh, machine translations are pretty funny when they go wrong
<shauno> looking at an old icelandic saga; chrome decided to translate the original for me, but translated the main character's name to 'Associated Press'.  which makes for a rather surreal story
<davmor2> yeah wednesfield road puts a smile on my face everytime google navigate says it
<shauno> "Her mother was JÃ¡rngerÃ°ur daughter Associated Press Iron Model Sonar north disrupted."   thanks chrome!
<davmor2> shauno: are you trying to say there is something wrong with that sentence?
<shauno> it makes almost as much sense as the icelandic :)
<jacobw> evening
<davmor2> jacobw: morning
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Copyright assignment - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/136457.html
<jacobw> davmor2: post meridian salutations :P
<davmor2> tis always morning on the t'interweb ;)
<brobostigon> good evening jacobw
<Azelphur> not ubuntu, but having trouble setting the resolution via xrandr. Currently it's sest to using 1600x1200 which my monitor doesn't support. I've ssh'd in and tried "DISPLAY=:0.0 xrandr --output CRT1 --mode 1024x768" it says "xrandr: Configure crtc 0 failed" any ideas?
<NET||abuse> wow, i find #ubuntu impossible
<brobostigon> it is very busy, and very confusing.
<DJones> Nah, its sane as long as you shut your eyes
<NET||abuse> :P
<brobostigon> or /ignore everyone.
<NET||abuse> well i have a theme problem in unity
<NET||abuse> every second login i'm getting the nice dark unity theme, every other login though i'm getting some lighter theme with coloured icons(i think oxygen theme)
<NET||abuse> and using the appearance dialog has no effect on the current session
<NET||abuse> i have this install since 10.04, it's a EeePc 1000h, i installed kde 4 during the 10.10 period, then updaated to 11.04 last week
<NET||abuse> since then i've tried pullingout the kde packages (honestly i've no hope of figuring it out or running it smoothly on this ol' netbook)
<AlanBell> how do I download stuff from a video camera over firewire to pitivi?
<NET||abuse> but i've quite a few packages still in there
<Azelphur> anyone? xrandr driving me insane? :P
<ali1234> AlanBell: use dvgrab
<ali1234> pitivi has no firewire support and never will because it's all gstreamer powered
<AlanBell> ok, thanks
<Azelphur> oh hey it worked now \o/
<Azelphur> same command I did 5 times before only this time it works, fun
<NET||abuse> Azelphur, and here i was googling xrandr
<ali1234> ati?
<Azelphur> ali1234, yea
<ali1234> seems like their randr support is about as good as nvidias
<Azelphur> :D
<AlanBell> ali1234: cool, thanks that worked perfectly
<davmor2> Azelphur: is it an nvidia gfx card?
<NET||abuse> I want a new laptop so bad :0
<Azelphur> davmor2, nope, it's an ati
<NET||abuse> i was hmming and hawing about the toshiba R830 vs the Lenovo x220
<ali1234> NET||abuse: you should never mix kde/gnome/xfce etc desktop metapackages on ubuntu because this is exactly what happens
<NET||abuse> :P ahh, so my problem is self inflicted
<ali1234> pick one and stick with it. if you want to change, do a fresh install, otherwise bad things will happen
<NET||abuse> yarg :( any chance i can fix this?
<NET||abuse> or am i a lost cause?
<NET||abuse> i shoulda never touched it ;0
<ali1234> you will have to purge all kde packages
<NET||abuse> that's fine
<ali1234> then probably purge and reinstall ubuntu desktop as well
<ali1234> there will probably still be some wrong bits left around
<ali1234> especially stuff like bootsplash always gets messed up
<ali1234> fixing it will probably take longer than reinstalling
<jacobw> the metapackages being a PITA has been a problem for as long as i've been using ubuntu
<ali1234> yep
<jibadeeha> quite liking the idea of lightdm going into ubuntu 11.10
<NET||abuse> Arch!
<NET||abuse> :P
<NET||abuse> hehe,
<NET||abuse> well, i purged everything with "kde" in the name,
<NET||abuse> will see if a reboot fixes me :)
<ali1234> it probably won't
<NET||abuse> if not, i'll just go on about my business for now then
<jacobw> rebooting doesn't solve problems, even in windows
<NET||abuse> well, maybe just restart gdm
<ali1234> you'll still have configuration files that point to kde artwork
<NET||abuse> yup, that's true
<ali1234> you need to uninstall and then reinstall everything in ubuntu-desktop as well
<NET||abuse> weird that it's booting into the other theme every second boot,madness
<ali1234> and probably delete half the .files in ~ as well
<NET||abuse> i'll see how it's behaving after restart and get to that another day
<NET||abuse> i've spent enough time on it tonight
<PalaPad> Yeah on way home, absolutely knackered :(
<AlanBell> great conversation with my 7 year old
<AlanBell> she says the thing with the pictures on is called the computer
<AlanBell> the black box is called the monitor
 * AlanBell says it is the other way round
<ali1234> the black box is called the hard drive
<ging> lol
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> every one knows that
<AlanBell> but she says it is the monitor
<ging> popey's 7 year old can write python
<AlanBell> and I lost the argument
<mgdm> ging: yeah, I've heard they freelance Django stuff :P
<ali1234> outwitted by a 7 year old
<d3ngar> Hi there
<d3ngar> I was wondering if somebody can help me with an overscaling problem
<ging> calgon tablets
<d3ngar> When I try to create a manual Modeline, my monitor just goes blank
<jacobw> lol
<AlanBell> d3ngar: what card, what monitor, what resolution are you shooting for, what modeline are you trying?
<d3ngar> Thanks AlanBell: It's a HDMI connection to a weird TV, I'd hope for 720p (which it is on and overscaled) and the card is an ATI x1200
<AlanBell> TVs often lie over HDMI about what they can do
<AlanBell> loads of them claim to be a 7 inch panel
<d3ngar> The last modeline I tried was added through xrandr: 30.35 1216 1248 1360 1392 690 705 709 725 interlace
<d3ngar> Yes
<d3ngar> That's exactly my bastard
<d3ngar> 7inch panel
<mgdm> AlanBell: aye, mine does that, I've no idea why
<mgdm> both the Samsung monitor and the Sony telly, in fact
<d3ngar> :D
<MartijnVdS> because a manufacturer has one HDMI chip for all models
<AlanBell> must be some dirt cheap controller they all use and figured nobody would ever see it, so why set it!
<d3ngar> Well, makes me feel better buying the cheapest brand around
<MartijnVdS> my old 42" had a 32" ident
<AlanBell> it just works for blueray and skyHD so they don't care about doing it properly
<d3ngar> So, I have to admit: I don't know what xrandr actually does
<d3ngar> But I read the ubuntu wiki on how to add resolutions that aren't supported
<AlanBell> so 720p is 1280x720
<d3ngar> And I *thought* that I have to tune down the resolution a bit, but that had averse effects as the screen simply goes blank
<d3ngar> Yes, so I tried down-scaling 1280 to: 1220 x 690
<d3ngar> That, it seems, is the visible resolution under 1280x720
<AlanBell> I would have thought 1280x720 would be the one to go for
<AlanBell> it might sync to 1920x1080
<d3ngar> Well that IS the resolution I can select
<AlanBell> and 1024x768 is always worth a shot
<d3ngar> but then I have the borders cut off by about 30x15 pixels on each border
<AlanBell> ah
<AlanBell> that is the problem with TV, important stuff happens in the middle
<d3ngar> :D
<AlanBell> on computers important stuff happens at the edges
<d3ngar> yes: browser back buttons, scroll bars, close icons, session log-out
<AlanBell> worth a punt http://compbrain.net/archives/tag/xrandr
<d3ngar> Alright
<d3ngar> I guess I would have to modify this a tad to make it work for my overscaling issue
<d3ngar> what are these parameters that you set in the modeline?
<d3ngar> and why does mine just result in a blank screen
<d3ngar> I used a calculator for this that is available online
<d3ngar> One sec, I find the link
<d3ngar> http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl
<Karti> Hi all
<daubers> Evening
<Karti> daubers, Hi
<awilkins> Darn. How do you rebuild alsa drivers and get them to work?
<AlanBell> http://doodle.com/53dpqtd6qgbvdpmp needs more people on it
<matti> ;]
<donut>  
<brobostigon> (TalkTalk Virus Alerts Scanning Engine)   anyone recognise that useraganet string?
<donut> what's a useragent?
<brobostigon> donut: its an imprint, a web browser normallygives a web server, to recognise the information about the browser and system youare using,
<donut> Ah yes, I new the the phrase was familiar.  Does it have anything to do with browsers of people with TalkTalk internet connection?
<brobostigon> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/534.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu/11.04 Chromium/13.0.765.0 Chrome/13.0.765.0 Safar
<AlanBell> sometimes ISPs provide a disk with an internet explorer customisation script on it so they get their name on the browser, I guess that could break the user agent string too
<brobostigon> donut: that is myuser agent string, andi am onmy dads connection, which is with talktalk.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: thats interesting.
<AlanBell> technically the browser *is* the user agent
<brobostigon> true, yes.
<brobostigon> however theuser string i printed above, contains muchmore thanjustinformation aboutmywebbrowser.
<dogmatic69> anyone know of some tools for drawing flow charts etc in shell
<AlanBell> NCSA Mosaic/1.0 (X11;SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m)
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: dot http://pythonik.blogspot.com/2008/05/using-dot-linaguage-to-produce.htmlhttp://pythonik.blogspot.com/2008/05/using-dot-linaguage-to-produce.html
<AlanBell> just chop that URL in half and it will work
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> thanks, looks good
<dogmatic69> will work nice with json_encode($phpArray) i think
<mgdm> not quite
<dogmatic69> looks like it will need some hacking though
<mgdm> JSON has more ,
<mgdm> and ; :)
<mgdm> there are various PHP Graphviz libs, though
<dogmatic69> hmmm
<mgdm> and the format isn't /that/ hard anyway
<dogmatic69> mgdm: seems quite nice imo, according to this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2241382/php-graphviz-documentation
<andylockran> :)
<popey> this is going to sound like a silly question..
<popey> is it possible/permissible to create compiz plugins in python?
<ali1234> yes
<popey> do you know of any documentation or samples?
<ali1234> there is none
<popey> I seem to only be turning up old ones
<popey> excellent
<ali1234> the bindings are quite out of date
<AlanBell> what do you want to do popey
<popey> i want to register a plugin which if enabled will have 3 keyboard shortcuts assigned to it
<popey> and a few other settings
<popey> and when those keyboard shortcuts are pressed, invoke some python magic
<AlanBell> the python magic being some kind of window manipulation or something?
<popey> no
<popey> some stuff that wont interact with the stuff on screen at all
<AlanBell> why does it have to be a compiz plugin?
<popey> it doesnt
<popey> it could be standalone
<popey> but I thought our bold new future was compiz based
<popey> so it made sense to stick it there
<popey> its display based
<AlanBell> ok
<popey> Ok, no need to be secret squirrel about it tbh...
<popey> I want to put a screencasting plugin in there
<popey> so you turn it on, press a button and you're recording
<AlanBell> there is one as i recall
<popey> oh?
<popey> gord: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/may/17/computing-opensource
<AlanBell> I could be wrong however
<popey> i couldn't find one
 * bigcalm wipes the sweat from his brow after having moved the revo from the sittingroom to the office. Moving stuff around to make space is hard work
<bigcalm> Realised that one of the external harddrives has an external PSU, that'll have to go
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Oh would you look at that? Samba shares are so much more useable over cat5e than they are over wifi
<popey> :)
 * popey remembers he started an upgrade to natty on his revo about 8 hours ago
<AlanBell> popey:  http://git.compiz.org/~mzz/compiz-python/
<popey> gosh, git is quick isnt it
<aaronr> If a package is abandoned upstream by the Debian project, but is still in Ubuntu, what's the process for getting that package a maintainer?
<popey> aaronr: I'd ask in #ubuntu-motu
<aaronr> will do. thanks popey
<AlanBell> git is designed to be quick, even with huge trees
<popey> going to do this standalone and then if the mood takes me, figure out the compizification
<AlanBell> I would have thought the standard gnome keyboard shortcuts thing would serve the purpose
<AlanBell> but not as much fun as doing a compiz plugin
<AlanBell> I am going to set up a compiz build environment again
<popey> well, it seems we're moving to compiz
<AlanBell> I want to add text cursor tracking to the enhanced zoom plugin
<bigcalm> AH HA!
<bigcalm> "Save 11% Seagate EXPANSION 500 GB 2.5 PORTABLE E... is  Â£4.30 cheaper (Â£34.90) on Pixmania.co.uk
<bigcalm> "
<AlanBell> I wonder if gord knows a cunning way to get the text cursor position without querying it via at-spi
<bigcalm> Go to Pixmania.co.uk and find that shipping is Â£4.30, fancy that!
 * bigcalm sticks with Amazon
<bigcalm> Are there any decent & cheap 1tb external usb drives that don't require an external psu?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> because 3.5" drives need 12v which requires external psu
<ali1234> and 1tb 2.5" drives aer not cheap
<popey> they're not that expensive
<popey> I bought one for my laptop
<popey> well, not "cheap", you're right
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> I shall stick to 500gb drives then
<bigcalm> Might have to build myself a rack out of lego or macarno to house the drives :D
<ali1234> or you could just buy a normal computer
<bigcalm> Na
<bigcalm> :D
<AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003UT2QTQ/ref=asc_df_B003UT2QTQ2904533?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
<bigcalm> Ooo
<bigcalm> Ta
<AlanBell> at some point the USB bus might get cross at the number of devices asking for power
<bigcalm> True
<bigcalm> Actually, I only need to attach 2 drives
<AlanBell> ick, "USB Bus" did I just say that :/ I will be talking about PIN Numbers next
<ali1234> 2 drives is too much
<ali1234> most usb can't even power 1
<ali1234> usually only laptops can manage it, desktops will fail
<bigcalm> I already have http://www.amazon.co.uk/-/dp/B001XM4P1O attached
<AlanBell> they negotiate up to 500ma
<AlanBell> normally devices get 100ma
<bigcalm> Hummf
<bigcalm> I *could* replace the hd within the revo...
<AlanBell> when you plug in the second one the computer might say no
<popey> bah
<ali1234> buy a normal computer.......
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I see
<popey> trying to find a robust way to intercept keyboard presses
<popey> found two ways, one with xlib, one with tkinter
<popey> xlib one barfs, I dont want to install tkinter
<AlanBell> popey: I think u r doin it wrong
<popey> ok
<ali1234> i just bought a new system for my mythtv backend... Â£140, mini-itx, 500gb
<AlanBell> this is to launch your application?
<popey> no
<AlanBell> this is to send a signal to a running application?
<popey> the application is launched, it sits there waiting for you to press CTRL_ALT+FOO
<popey> yes
<AlanBell> and the fun part is your application doesn't have focus
<popey> exactly
<popey> hence using xlib
<popey> which kinda works
<popey> gtk-recordmydesktop does actually do this
<popey> trying to find where in the code so I can "borrow" it
<AlanBell> you could do it with a keyboard shortcut that sends a sigkill type message
<popey> ah, it looks like it's done in recordmydesktop (c) not gtk-recordmydesktop (py)
<AlanBell> http://pykeylogger.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=pykeylogger/pykeylogger;a=blob;f=pyxhook.py;h=745500f2570df8660f95547a99cc52618f49a153;hb=HEAD
<AlanBell> that does the xlib stuff
<AlanBell> doesn't look much fun
<popey> http://www.larsen-b.com/Article/184.html
<popey> is a nice short version
<popey> which I have trimmed down to...
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/609215/
<popey> which runs..
<popey> but for two issues...
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/609216/
<Azelphur> popey: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110517_202146.jpg
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/609217/
<Azelphur> I feel like I've strapped a jet engine to a push bike. \o/
<popey> can you sleep with that on?
<Azelphur> popey: haha, I had to sleep in the same room as it for a few days, ain't gonna lie headaches where had, and I was wearing earplugs
<Azelphur> but now I have a board for it, I've slung it in the spare bedroom that nobody is in
<popey> hah, loon
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> popey: you think that's loon...I just ordered 8 of them
<Azelphur> :x
<popey> 8 ATI cards?
<popey> you have too much money
<Azelphur> and the rest of the hardware, yes
<popey> AlanBell: suggestions welcome :)
<AlanBell> suggestion, use 4 spaces and not tabs :)
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> even though I wish the convention was tabs
 * popey changes his gedit config to comply with AlanBellStandard
<AlanBell> http://tronche.com/gui/x/xlib/event-handling/protocol-errors/default-handlers.html
<AlanBell> A client attempts to select an event type that another client has already selected.
<popey> ah okay
<popey> i suspected that might be the case
<popey> because it's using vol up/down which is already assigned
<popey> found another demo which works too
<popey> http://peabody.weeman.org/autokey.py
<popey> yay! working
<AlanBell> yay
<bigcalm> Would you look at the time?!
 * bigcalm slithers off
<popey> so f6 is keycode 72
 * popey wonders what f7 is
<popey> xev says 73
<popey> i think this is a lie
 * AlanBell slinks off
<popey> nn
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-18
<Azelphur> MattJ: you about? trying to get prosody to start, but it  keeps saying that it doesn't have permission to read any of the keys in /etc/prosody/certs, even though they are chmod 777'd
<MattJ> Part of me is about
<MattJ> -_-
<Azelphur> some is better than none :D
<MattJ> What about the certs directory itself?
<MattJ> sudo su prosody touch /etc/prosody/certs/some.cert
<MattJ> su isn't needed there, -u
<Azelphur> MattJ: yea, that got it :)
<Azelphur> MattJ: lol, spectrum is spooky, must have forgotten to copy something, in it's logs it lists my entire contact list so it's obviously connecting, yet I don't sign into MSN :p
<MattJ> Yay :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Providing More Scalable Community Growth And Mentoring - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/18/providing-more-scalable-community-growth-and-mentoring/
<AlanBell> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<Apacheuk> morning
<Apacheuk> ran across this this morning... trying to ease myself into some work this morning http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-world-map.html
<DJones> Morning
<hoover> morning all
<MooDoo> hello
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Feels like the afternoon already. I've been up since 05:21 for some weird reason.
<MartijnVdS> Coffee overdose?
<siliconmeadow> TheOpenSourcerer: snap
<dogmatic69> o/
<siliconmeadow> actually it was 5.18 for me
<dogmatic69> anyone owned / played with a synology backup thingy
<MartijnVdS> I have
<MartijnVdS> it works great
 * dogmatic69 got one at work this week
<dogmatic69> seems awesome
<MartijnVdS> it even rsync over the interwebs
<MartijnVdS> (there's a big synology wiki on there somewhere with howtos)
<dogmatic69> i love raid5 with miss mached HDD's
<siliconmeadow> In Lucid and maverick, I could zoom in the whole display by holding ctrl and using the scroll wheel on the mouse. I can't seem to do so in Natty. Any suggestions where to look? Can't seem to find it in keyboard shortcuts or anywhere else.
<siliconmeadow> synology's web interface is absolutely stunning, btw
<siliconmeadow> DSM 3.2, I think
<MartijnVdS> yeah, it rocks
<siliconmeadow> i've got a 4-bay one with 4 x 2tb drives in it
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: trying to use rhythmbox on it is not great so far
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: Oh I don't use it like that
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I rsync my music collection to it every night, as a backup
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: only things I do put on there directly are videos
<dogmatic69> it has done crazyness to my desktop :/
<MartijnVdS> how?
<siliconmeadow> dogmatic69: I've had success using the synology box as an XMBC source
<MartijnVdS> (its SMB support > NFS, because of uid madness)
<MartijnVdS> siliconmeadow: it works great as an UPnP/DLNA server for my TV
<dogmatic69> you know in nautilis, left menu (drives etc)... its added every folder in the music drive +- 500 :(
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you must have dragged your music to the bookmarks box?
<MartijnVdS> or did you mount all music folders separately?
<dogmatic69> nope
<MartijnVdS> (never seen that before)
<dogmatic69> i did rhythmbox -> import folder -> music folder -> add
<MartijnVdS> ah yes.
<MartijnVdS> Don't do that.
<MartijnVdS> That makes gvfs do crazy things.
<dogmatic69> things died, dark screen, flashing and smoke... pow
<dogmatic69> :(
<siliconmeadow> ouch!
<dogmatic69> i dont want to right click remove 500 folders
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you don't have to -- gvfs-mount -s smb
<siliconmeadow> dogmatic69: symlink it?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: does that work?
<dogmatic69> also it keeps loosing connection doing that
<dogmatic69> ^ my way
<dogmatic69> i was thinking a link would be better... how would i do that?
<wintellect> If I wanted to install a full KDE setup on an Ubuntu install - which apt pkg should I go for?  (and will the KDE option automatically appear in the GDM menu?)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: that won't help, it'll follow the symlink (to the smb mount) and do the same thing it did before
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you could try mounting it using FUSE and cifsfs, so gvfs doesn't pick it up and it looks "local"ish
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: so what is it you said? -- gvfs ...
<dogmatic69> where do i do that?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: in a terminal
<dogmatic69> just -- gvfs-mount -s smb ?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: on the machine where you have the 500 Samba shares mounted
<MartijnVdS> yes, it means "gvfs-mount --unmount-scheme smb" -> it unmounts everything in the smb:// namespace
<dogmatic69> ah
<MartijnVdS> (that's used by gvfs, most GTK apps use that)
<dogmatic69> --: command not found
<dogmatic69> ...
<MartijnVdS> don't type the -- :)
<MartijnVdS> start with gvfs-mount
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> just figured that part :D
<siliconmeadow> wintellect: maybe sudo apt-get kde-full or kde-standard
<dogmatic69> 10.10 dont have that
<wintellect> siliconmeadow: cool, thanks. What about the GDM thing?
<siliconmeadow> wintellect: perhaps try sudo apt-get -s install first
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it doesn't? what does it say?
<siliconmeadow> wintellect: I think it will give you the chance to choose the desktop you want when you log in
<wintellect> siliconmeadow: sweet. Thanks
<oimon> hmm i thought it was apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
<dogmatic69> missing the -mount thing, busy installing
<wintellect> oimon: will that remove Gnome or anything?
<oimon> no
<siliconmeadow> wintellect: oimon might be right too
<wintellect> oimon: ok, thanks
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it's in gvfs-bin
<czajkowski> Aloha
<wintellect> oimon: presumably that will keep GDM and add an option for KDE as siliconmeadow said?
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: tx, installed that... ran it (small delay and no output)
<dogmatic69> still have million files
<oimon> wintellect: yes, in fact it will ask during the apt-get whether you want gdm or kdm
<dogmatic69> s/files/folders
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: can you post a screenshot?
<wintellect> oimon: perfect, thanks!
<MartijnVdS> !screenshot | dogmatic
<lubotu3> dogmatic: Screenshots can be made with the [PrtScr] button. Want to show us a screenshot of your problem? Upload an image to http://imagebin.org/?page=add and post a link to it.
<siliconmeadow> wintellect: if you do an "apt-get show kde-full" you might get some ideas, and then compare it with kde-standard and kubuntu-desktop
<wintellect> siliconmeadow: swet! Thanks
<wintellect> sweet*
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: they were showing the link icon, and after removing one manually they turned to a normal folder icon
<siliconmeadow> wintellect: I just did a comparison, and I'd do the kubuntu-desktop like oimon said
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: Please, a screenshot :)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: (maybe Alt+Prtscr to do a single-window shot)
<dogmatic69> oooh...
<dogmatic69> nice
<wintellect> siliconmeadow: very kind of you to check. Will do - and much appreciated
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: screenie coming, figured out how to 'properly' add the music in the mean time, by accident :D
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: "oops"
<dogmatic69> there is an icon in rhythmbox for auto found music shares... <3 ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> yeah that's the itunes sharing bit
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> its an itunes share thing on synology box
<dogmatic69> alt+print screen is not working btw (tried both left and right alt)
<MartijnVdS> strange, did you remove the screenshot program?
<dogmatic69> not that i know of, print screen works fine for the whole screen
<siliconmeadow> dogmatic69, MartijnVdS - I like shuttter, have you seen it?
<dogmatic69> idk
<MartijnVdS> siliconmeadow: I don't make screenshots THAT often
<siliconmeadow> I do several times a day
<dogmatic69> i do a few a week
<oimon> shutter is a good app for screenshots
<MartijnVdS> I do a few a year, max.
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: http://oi56.tinypic.com/d648z.jpg
<dogmatic69> everything below 'CI server'
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: those are bookmarks
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you can edit them out of ~/.gtk-bookmarks
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<dogmatic69> yey
<dogmatic69> that was easy
<dogmatic69> thanks
<dogmatic69> got 3x google chrome processes using 20% ram :(
<dogmatic69> time for a reboot
<oimon> or close chrome :)
<MartijnVdS> yeah, just restart chrome :)
<dogmatic69> o.o http://oi53.tinypic.com/24vog9x.jpg
<dogmatic69> 4gigs ram in total
<siliconmeadow> http://ubuntuone.com/p/u1n/
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> siliconmeadow: any easy ways to upload, ala pastebinit for images?
<siliconmeadow> dogmatic69: CI server? Continuous Integration?
<dogmatic69> siliconmeadow: correct, one of them
<dogmatic69> jenkins
<siliconmeadow> shutter uploads, publishes and then gives me the link
<dogmatic69> nice
<siliconmeadow> In Maverick, it used to put it straight onto the clipboard for me, but I'm trying to figure out why it doesn't with Natty
<siliconmeadow> i have to go to Nautilus and get it from the context menu>Ubuntu One
<gord> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13429217 - interesting
<JamesTait> Hello people! :D
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning matey
<bigcalm> 1st panel of today's XKCD is a hoot
<davmor2> MooDoo: How's you me old mucka
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<MooDoo> davmor2: bored but ok
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski too
 * czajkowski prods both MooDoo and davmor2 
<MooDoo> :)
<dogmatic69> http://bellard.org/jslinux/
<dogmatic69> anyone seen that?
<BigRedS> yeah, I've been fiddling with it this morning
<Tommeh> Yeah, not as good as the xkcd one :p
<MooDoo> pwd
<MooDoo> ls
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: is it just a js -> (php/cgi) -> shellexec or something?
<BigRedS> AIUI, it's qemu written in JS
<BigRedS> essentially
<BigRedS> http://bellard.org/jslinux/tech.html
<dwatkins> It's a tiny image, and has no networking, but appears to be a working implementation of a virtual machine in javascript.
<popey> morning slackers
<MooDoo> popey: morning ;)
<BigRedS> It does have a helloworld.c and a tiny c compiler
<BigRedS> that's all I've been knobbing around with
<popey> could you copy/paste code in?
<brobostigon> morning popey
<BigRedS> popey: not that I've found
<BigRedS> er, I've not found a way to
<dwatkins> yeah, it's a shame there's no network stack and I imagine serial wouldn't work either.
<BigRedS> from discussion elsewhere, I think he's using keypress detection rather than anything that'd cope with a stream of clipboard text
<dwatkins> still, pretty good for what it is
<BigRedS> yeah, I think it's a fair chunk of awesome
 * bigcalm waves from his new connection :)
<brobostigon> :)
<dwatkins> hooray, hope it speedtests nice and fast, bigcalm
<selinuxium> morning all   o/
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> nice reliable connection bigcalm has there :)
<selinuxium> hi popey MooDoo.
 * selinuxium is using unity and actually quite liking it... 
<selinuxium> Some quirks I could stamp on but... It is just different, not broken...
<popey> :)
<selinuxium> System Setting under the power button??? Had to have DJones point that one out to me...
<gord> y'know, there are a lot of quirks, small bugs, that kind of thing, in unity right now. we know, would be awesome to get some community contributors getting involved though :) could make 11.10 absolutely rock
<gord> we had a few very dedicated contributors last cycle, they were awesome
<selinuxium> and bigcalm is back!  :)
<bigcalm> This is fun
<bigcalm> Every time I add a new mac address to get a static IP, the router reboots
 * bigcalm sighs
<bigcalm> http://twitter.com/bigcalm/statuses/70786775353802752
<gord> yes. your life is ssoooooo hard. my router reboots whenever you change *anything* and i get 1.98mbit >:(
<selinuxium> I was wondering if there was a tips and tricks with unity page/video somewhere that someone could recommend?
<gord> selinuxium, http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4795149014/the-power-users-guide-to-unity
<selinuxium> gord you genius! : )
<popey> BigRedS: static IP? whywhywhy?
<popey> er bigcalm
<popey> too many bigs
<selinuxium> lol
<popey> bigcalm: why not just use hostnames to connect to boxen
<gord> big is the new alan
<popey> what!? never!
<selinuxium> lol
 * popey notes nobody is in #big
<gord> haha i forgot about your alan channel
<popey> yet there are two people (and a bot) in #thealans!
<selinuxium> gord: Well that is at least three Alan's offended... :)
<popey> don't oppress me!
<popey> Alan's are people too!
 * bigcalm chuckles
<bigcalm> popey: the revo is my dev server, I need to point vhosts at its IP
<bigcalm> The wee plastic spanner that came with the hub was pants
 * IamAnAlanToo hates static IP... 
<bigcalm> popey: also, port forwarding requires an IP address not a named device
<popey> ah yes, so true
 * IamAnAlanToo also wants to bring the Clue by Two for people how put things in there local hosts file... 
<IamAnAlanToo> bigcalm, true   :)
<popey> you could hardwire the IP on the boxen rather than the router :)
<bigcalm> Sure, lots of ways to do the same thing :)
<popey> $ wc -l /etc/hosts
<popey> 545 /etc/hosts
<popey> :)
<IamAnAlanToo> popey, :)
<popey> $work
<bigcalm> Poop
<bigcalm> About the change the wifi channel. What's the betting that the router reboots itself again?
<bigcalm> Oh, I am surprised
<popey> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone got IE9 and something else on a machine they could check something for me quickly?
<selinuxium> I can...
<selinuxium> :)
<DJones> I can
 * bigcalm wishes he didn't
<oimon> yay, got my ubuntu kiosk box working :)
<dwatkins> nifty, oimon
<gord> oimon, now put it somewhere public so nerds can crowd around and try to figure out how to break it
<oimon> thinking of putting it in the roof cavity
<oimon> keyboard plus alt-f4 will close firefox :(
<DJones> oimon: Just break the F4 key, superglue it in the up position so it can't be used
<oimon> hehe ...there's no kb attached, so i could break every keyboard in the world
<oimon> hmmm maybe i should run with a more basic DE than gnome then...
<selinuxium> remap Alt-F4 to do something else..
<oimon> mind you , students aren't technically curious nowadays like we used to be :)
<DJones> oimon: Come on, be honest, they're still as curious, the first question they'll ask is "Can you get Facebook on it" :)
<dwatkins> how about if someone manages to start a softkeyboard, oimon? Just thinking of all the possibilities.
<oimon> DJones: they don't care anymore, it's on their idevice
<oimon> hmm may need to do a lockdown desktpo
<DJones> oimon: Good reply, had to laugh last night, we were supposed to have visitors who cancelled so my wife said it was good and would give her chance to do her college assignment and then she spent the next few hours on facebook
<oimon> i overheard a teenager saying it was easy in our day becasuse of no internet...however distraction from revision can take many forms...playing on my SNES or Archimedes, or even tidying my room...maybe the PSN going offline will result in higher results than usual
<hamitron> hehe
<bigcalm> Somebody care to remind me how to change the default text editor for the CLI?
<DJones> oimon: Or for the even older, hunting for food and trying to make fire :)
<hamitron> in "our day", computers were not the only thing to life
<dwatkins> oimon: I think Chrome OS is fairly locked down, how about using that?
<hamitron> ;)
<dwatkins> oimon: Archimedes++
<oimon> bigcalm: export EDITOR=vim
<hamitron> I didn't even realise there was a default editor
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> although there might be a newer and better way..
<bigcalm> oimon: ta
<bigcalm> Can you find out what shell is in use?
<bigcalm> ~/.bashrc isn't being run AFAICT
<oimon> echo $SHELL
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> It is using bash, just seems weird
<awoodland> #povray
<MooDoo> awoodland: povray ftw!
<awoodland> I did that annoying thing where whilst xchat is connecting you start typing something in one channel/server and then it switches focus half way through
<oimon> nice password ;)
<awoodland> not done that for a while
<awoodland> (I don't think?)
<awoodland> I was mostly just worried that povray would be OT in here and so would annoy people
<dwatkins> bigcalm: bash uses different dot-files depending on whether you're in screen or not, check .profile as well. I need to do some testing to find out which files are actually called at login.
<MooDoo> awoodland: don't worry, if it turns out to be OT, there are plenty of people in here that will moan at you ;)
<oimon> my .bash_profile has a line which calls .bashrc
<oimon> http://pastebin.com/VPPq93hP
<bigcalm> dwatkins: it was in .profile. Thanks :)
<dwatkins> bigcalm: woot
<bigcalm> Gah, the pager was set to more
<shauno> I think it's .profile for login shells, and .bashrc for non-login shells (unless it's a non-login shell invoked as /bin/sh ....)
<shauno> never understood why :/
<daubers> o/
<gord> well - i broke the android market. i am sitting in a limbo state where i have and have not purchased an app
<oimon> i realised something cool i could use my phone for
<daubers> oimon, Speaking to people over a long distance?
<MooDoo> oimon: door stop?
<oimon> even better..perform an inventory of all my DVD and books using the barcode scanner
<oimon> ideally to import into gcstar or tellico
<dogmatic69> daubers: talk to people with a phone ?!? wth
<daubers> dogmatic69: Am I now "old fashioned"?
<dogmatic69> :D
 * dogmatic69 buys phones according to the number of axes one the accelerometer
<dogmatic69> s/one/on
<davmor2> dogmatic69: wow accelerometers with axes isn't that dangerous, I mean that'll ruin your pockets everytime you drop your phone in surely
<dogmatic69> ...
<dogmatic69> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axes
<davmor2> dogmatic69: yes top line on the link ;)
<JGJones> oimon there's an app for that! - look up Inventory, works with Barcode scanner.
<oimon> JGJones: great, i'll have a look..android app?
<JGJones> yeah
<oimon> i tried shelves app which is great except some bugs with the bulk scan make it useless for me
<JGJones> oimon, no idea how good...I last used it just over a year ago.
<oimon> JGJones: which developer please? i see a couple of apps called inventory
<JGJones> I can't remember to be honest...been over a year! :) Try the one by XMS Developers
<oimon> thats the one i installed :)
<gord> =\ whenever some utility opens an editor for you, it should have to label it very very well. fed up of trying to wq inside of nano
<popey> :)
<oimon> anyone have experience with collection managers in ubuntu? i have a list of UPC /barcodes and none of the programs seem to offer import of barcodes and subsequent search
<brobostigon> the queen and the duke of edinburgh, dont seem to like stout. however i am sure the duke of edinburgh was tempted.
<davmor2> You can see him slow down saying "Bag me crate I'll swig it down off camera"
<brobostigon> yeah, :)
<gord> http://acko.net/blog/on-termkit - what happens when osx people design a terminal
<oimon> gord: i'm not sure if this is good or bad
<BigRedS> I would very much like a syntax-highlighted cat
<oimon> i disagree on the usability statements
<oimon> it is very usable and unambiguous
<BigRedS> it does look like it'll be a worst-of-both mix of gui and cli
<oimon> "Additionally, Unix has a habit of giving you raw data, but not telling you useful facts, e.g. 'r-xr-xr-x' instead of "You can't touch this""
<oimon> i know which is more useful
<BigRedS> unix assumes the user knows what they're doing. That's long been a downside to new people and an advantage to people who know what they're doing
<oimon> at some point you need to know what you're doing though
<shauno> if that's how osx people design a terminal, how long until we see a barely functional clone in ubuntu ;)
<BigRedS> oimon: yeah. And you find out what you're doing by trying
<BigRedS> and, once you do, it's quicker to do it the know-what-you're-doing way
<BigRedS> hence that being default for forty or so years...
<ali1234> gord: i've been asking for a shell like that for years
<ali1234> this guy stole my idea
<ali1234> almost exactly
<gord> mozilla made something that is basically the same 10 years ago
<ali1234> really mozilla made a shell where "cat foo.png" displays the image instead of corrupting your shell?
<gord> you want to use eog foo.png
<ali1234> no i don't
<ali1234> i want *any* program that writes raw binary image data to stdout to result in the image being displayed
<ali1234> as described in the article
<gord> so how would you view binary data in files?
<ali1234> the same way nautilus does
<gord> here it is: http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2000/06/07/xmlterm/index.html
<ali1234> if i double click on a file in nautilus it chooses the correct program
<shauno> if I actually want to see binary in a stream, it gets piped into hexdump
<ali1234> if i cat the same file in shell, it should determine the correct file type, and embed it inline in the shell window
<ali1234> yes, exactly
<ali1234> hexdump if i want to see the binary
<gord> i think what you actually want, is better keyboard controls for nautilus
<ali1234> catting a bin direct to the display just messes up the terminal
<shauno> I've never actually wanted to dump the entire contents of a binary file to the terminal.  it just makes the term beep a lot, then sit and wait for me to reset it
<ali1234> no, i don't want keyboard controlled nautilus
<ali1234> that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard of
<ali1234> i want a shell with pipes that understands filetypes other than ascii
<ali1234> and utf-7
<shauno> it seems like an interesting idea, but I'd be very concerned about how much of what I'm used to would break in the process
<gord> cat foo.png > ohgodthiswontwork
<ali1234> xmlterm seems to do the same thing but requires that all shell programs be made xml aware
<ali1234> i don't understand why that is necessary
<ali1234> if nautilus can determine filetype without xml junk then so can the shell
<shauno> it was 2000.  everything had to be xml aware.  even your fridge.
<ali1234> oh yeah i guess
<shauno> just like this one's all html5.
<ali1234> so is this termkit thing a real program i can download?
<ali1234> damn it's os x only
<ali1234> someone port it pleeeeeeease
<ali1234> hey wait i have a mac right here
<ali1234> going to try it
<BigRedS> Does there exist a really easy git/svn mirror/gateway thing? I don't branch or anything, but I'd like all my git commmits/pushes to be svn commited to a separate repo
<BigRedS> automagically
<livingdaylight> greetings
<brobostigon> afternoonings livingdaylight :)
<livingdaylight> i'm still looking for a laptop!
<popey> heh
<livingdaylight> Sony Vaio EA3S1 are looking good or Samsung P530.... so many of them the chassis gets so hot! a cool chassis is one of my top criteria, and those two seems possible candidates. Surprised how lenovos let me down on that score
<popey> :( Sony
<BigRedS> My lenovo's not that hot
<BigRedS> I don't know how cool is cool, though
<livingdaylight> they definitely range from cool to fry your egg on here
<livingdaylight> popey, :( ?
 * BigRedS discovers ctrl+alt+numpad in unity
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: ooh, different models as different temps, or same ones all over the place?
<livingdaylight> not easy finding a laptop that has at least i3 processor, hdmi out, and is cool and quiet
<popey> BigRedS: i like middle click on the title bar which is new to me
<popey> also CTRL+ALT+S
<BigRedS> yeah, I saw that on the lists earlier
<BigRedS> c-a-s doesn't do anything for me,though. is that a 3d only thing?
<BigRedS> I'm a bit miffed that a rotated screen apparently costs me my 3d
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, certain make and models seem to be hot in general whilst others focus on keeping their system as cool as possible. HP's I found to be little ovens on the whole; after I nearly got the g62 i3 for Â£349
<livingdaylight> read interview with RSM in LInux Format where he mentioned what laptop he uses, but forgot name already; slightly more obscure one
<livingdaylight> popey, what is the politics of sony vis a vis linux that you frown upon, or is there another reason you object to their machines?
<livingdaylight> their E series in 14" are sweet if not on the pricey side; but that aside one of the better ones out there i thought.
<ali1234> hmm i just noticed that os x has windicators
<kvarley> livingdaylight: Sony treat their customers like dirt, that's why people have objections to their systems. Not because of the systems themselves but because of the ethics which Sony adopt (or lack of)
<livingdaylight> kvarley, ok, didn't know that. In fact what one guy told sounded quite the contrary saying that their pick up and return on machines was exemplary
<ali1234> unless you installed linux
<ali1234> then they won't honour the warranty
<livingdaylight> are they the only ones to adopt that attitude?
<kvarley> livingdaylight: I have no personal experience of Sony hardware as a computer. I just no they have a terrible record with their games consoles. I was foolish enough to buy one of them, never again.
<livingdaylight> hrmm
<livingdaylight> i bought an msi cr620 and was bitterly disappointed. The noise it makes was intrusive and distracting; hence decided I rather pay a little more for something I gonna enjoy using
<ali1234> msi
<ali1234> next time buy a thinkpad
<ali1234> does anyone know what this mysterious npm command is? it has something to do with node.js i guess
<livingdaylight> they're definitely too pricey, and found that they're all very hot !
<popey> livingdaylight: I just don't particularly like the way sony proprietorise everything they touch
<popey> livingdaylight: I'd personally buy a thinkpad or a macbook
<livingdaylight> popey, ditto. I hate the way they all do that as much as they can. In addition all laptops come with tremendous amount of bloatware and 60-day trials... Welcome to the monetary system... I hope it crumbles soon...
<gord> my thinkpad is coming with an install of microsoft office, i didn't pay an extra Â£200 for the key though
<gord> so that will be fun
<BigRedS> FWIG, you can just uninstall it
<BigRedS> I've never booted mine into the windows install, though
<gord> for what its.. erm, girth?
<BigRedS> hah
<BigRedS> from what I gather
<gord> ah
<BigRedS> I seem to keep finding myself using non-standard initialisms
<BigRedS> I think I must just make them up, and most people just ignore me :)
<DJones> gord: My new laptop came with an install of MS Office, had the option of putting in a pre-purchased key, or using the free advert supported version of Word & Excel
<livingdaylight> gord, how much was your thinkpad?
<BigRedS> DJones: free and add supported? That's a bit scary for the OOo guys
<BigRedS> or LO
<livingdaylight> I found the lenovo computers above average hot under the chassis which has put me off them for good.
<popey> why is heat an issue?
<DJones> BigRedS: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/10/microsoft-announces-ad-supported-office-starter-2010.ars
<livingdaylight> makes my whole nervous system tingle... makes me very uncomfortable
<BigRedS> Mine's warm if I block the air vent, which I frequently do with a knee, but if that's free it's sort-of noticeably warm to the touch but not 'hot'
<popey> livingdaylight: what do you do in summer when it's sunny outside?
<BigRedS> DJones: Ah, so it's an MS Works replacement, and oe only. that's not quite as worrying
<gord> livingdaylight, Â£821
<livingdaylight> popey, the environment and touching or being touched by a hot electronic device, is different. Although, I sometimes jump in a cold bath
<popey> ok
<gord> heat is an issue when i'm not feeling well at UDS and want to hide in my room watching the office on my laptop in bed ;)
<oimon> i've never really noticed problems with hot laptops, maybe that's because i use intel graphics cards
<DJones> BigRedS: Yeah, Word & Excel only, but probably for 90% of home users thats all they would want given that you get email with Win 7 anyway, not many home users would want publisher/powerpoint etc
<ali1234> nope, my netbook gets super hot
<oimon> my eee does too, but that's not a laptop :)
<gord> atom netbooks are about as hot as they get
<ali1234> any laptop is either going to get hot or it's going to have a loud fan
<oimon> sweeet, i managed to get tellico working to show the list of DVDs i own
<oimon> looking good
<oimon> scanned using the barcode reader of my android phone
<ali1234> hmm i wonder what happens if i do 'cat randomfile | xdg-open /dev/stdin'
<livingdaylight> Do we like Dell?
<livingdaylight> their 15" XPS with dedicated nvidia graphics card looks /sounds good on paper
<oimon> wow natty is broken on my eee. classic gnome doesn't use gnome-settings-daemon and looks like win2k, and kde fonts are corrupted :(
<ali1234> dell is ok as long as you don't buy their bargain basement stuff
<oimon> i find the dell outlet good , especially for purchasing business laptops for home use :D
<popey> oimon: known bug
<diplo> livingdaylight, my XPS was hot, I preferred Inspiron's
<diplo> Had the E5800 range I think
<diplo> ran quiet and coolish
<popey> bug 649809
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 649809 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Natty) "the session settings manager can try starting before the login screen one exits" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649809
<ali1234> ah is that why so many people keep getting the "my desktop look slike win2k" bug?
<popey> yes
<oimon> http://i.imgur.com/H7I0t.png
<ali1234> luckily i only reboot about 3 times per cycle
<oimon> is the kde fonts problem related?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> that's glyph cache corruption
<ali1234> it's a bug in your video driver
<ali1234> often affects intel
<oimon> sounds like a doctor who episode
<oimon> not sure if its win2k or XFCE :P
<ali1234> so i tried that termkit shell
<ali1234> it's quite good
<ali1234> but it;s really buggy
<oimon> putty natty on this thing was a massive mistake
<ali1234> also it doesn't support pipes so it's pointless, i may as well just continue to use nautilus when i need graphical stuff
<ali1234> still the idea is good, i hope the guy continues it
<ali1234> xdg-open can't work with stdin...
<DJones> THis is worrying for from a windows point of view, 1 in 14 downloads is malicious http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2011/05/17/smartscreen-174-application-reputation-in-ie9.aspx Presumably that also exclude windows updates :)
<ali1234> why is it worrying?
<DJones> ali1234: Just the volume of malicious software
<oimon> reading OMGubuntu lately makes me realise how it could happen on Ubuntu: they are recommending that people download random zipped apps from a website
<oimon> ^^ http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/yeoworks-ubuntu-solutions-is-a-handy-tool-kit-for-ubuntu/ not even a ppa
<ali1234> their definition of "malware" is anything that isn't commonly downlaoded
<ali1234> their little "app rep" warning won't protect anyone from malware
<ali1234> it will however block free software developers from shipping software for windows
<ali1234> "By following industry best practices, developers can accelerate the process of building     a good reputation. For example, signed programs typically build reputation twice     as fast as unsigned programs. We recommend          digitally signing programs with an Authenticode signature. Making     sure that programs are not detected as malware is clearly important as well. The     Windows Logo     process also helps establish a software publisherâs repu
<ali1234> this is what it is really about ^
<ali1234> "you better sign your code and get logo certified, otherwise we might tell people your software is a virus"
<ali1234> anyway i don't find this worrying at all
<ali1234> the high number of malware downloads on windows onl represents how stupid windows users are
<ali1234> as long as they don't all start using linux we'll be fine
<ali1234> wait...
<shauno> heh, oh dear ..
<shauno> Eurogamer has seen video evidence that verifies reports that Sony's PlayStation Network password reset system suffers from an exploit that allows attackers to change your password using only your PSN account email and your date of birth V information compromised in the PSN hack of 20th April.
<ali1234> ha ha ha
<shauno> I wonder if PSN let you change your date of birth
<kazade> afternoon
<DJones> Hi kazade
<DJones> kazade: I was wondering how you were getting on with your twitter client, needed to install one at work & wondered if you'd come across MahTweets on Windows and if there were any ideas in that you could use
<kazade> DJones, it's coming along slowly. I've got my minimal feature set almost done but I'm having to rethink how some of the multithreading stuff works
<kazade> DJones, are you on 64 bit?
<kazade> erm, do you need one for Windows or Ubuntu?
<kazade> because the Windows build will be coming later
<DJones> kazade: yes I am
<DJones> kazade: I like mahtweets on Windows, Its quite like Gwibber in having an "Everything" column for all accounts
<ali1234> "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041107 Firefox/1.0" - that's a interesting user agent string
<ali1234> who is still using such a old mozilla?
<Azelphur> oldschool :p
<ali1234> log is from this year
<ali1234> they don't have flash either
<oimon> i used to have some mandrake users who didn't receive updates
<oimon> maybe similar situation
<oimon> fedora core 3 users :P
<ali1234> the website i'm looking at logs for has been successfully viewed (that is, the swf that contains the whole site was downloaded) 3 times in the past 3 months
<davmor2> ali1234: I'm guessing some one with an old nokia tablet
<ali1234> no, nokia tablets don't report i686 on the user agent string
<ali1234> they don't report as firefox either
<ali1234> there's certainly no maemo that uses firefox 1.0
<ali1234> http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/User-Agent_headers_for_Nokia_devices
<DJones> ali1234: http://www.zytrax.com/tech/web/firefox-history.html Maybe that helps, right near the bottom are some Firefox/1.0 entries
<davmor2> ali1234: the user agent Mozilla 5.0 bit I got right I was close
<ali1234> everything says that
<davmor2> ali1234: how about a dapper drake user who thinks the desktop is supported to next month
<DJones> Looks like its pre-dapper going on the date on this bug report that seems pretty close https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/28048/comments/92
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 28048 in firefox (Ubuntu) "âfirefox crash on exit if client certificates used for ssl authâ" [High,Invalid]
<DJones> Thats dated April/May 2005
<jacobw> dapper was probably the best release
<Laney> you can still get it
<MartijnVdS> hardy was good too, jacobw
<jacobw> i know :) i don 't actually want to run it in 2011 though
<MartijnVdS> and so was lucid.. all LTSes really
<jacobw> ah, i wasn't using ubuntu at the time of hardy
<jacobw> only dapper and lucid, dapper impressed me more at the time, probably because of the state of others linuxes at the time
<jacobw> before fedora dropped core :|
<davmor2> jacobw: Hardy Heron had the best desktop wall paper
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: no, warty did :)
<MartijnVdS> (the "naked people" controversy)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: pervert ;)
<shauno> \o/ naked people
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: puritan :)
<davmor2> haha!
<shauno> I still kinda regret moving off 8.06.  Still can't get my head around upstart :(
 * davmor2 picks himself up of the floor
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19980603
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: nice
<MartijnVdS> Hah.. http://isamypregnant.com/
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> Hehehe
<bigcalm> function tardis_doesnt_knows() {
<bigcalm> Question...
<popey> ..How'd you like this knowledge that I brought
<popey> are you an independent woman now bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> If Matt Smith dies at a 200yo future doctor, does that mean he will be the last of the Time Lords?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I think it will be fixed by the end of this series/season
<shauno> I wondered that myself
<MartijnVdS> There must be a perfectly logical explanation :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I should hope so, just quite an odd thing to put at the begining of the series
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: reddit.com/r/doctorwho if you want wild speculation (spoilers are tagged/hidden by default)
<bigcalm> Ta, but I like to live under my rock :)
<popey> haha
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: your blue, police box-shaped rock?
<jpds> MartijnVdS: Can we just pretend that it's a chair?
<MartijnVdS> jpds: you can sit on top of it 8_)
<kasztan_85> Hi, I accidentally removed the system accounts in the Accounts manager in ubuntu 11.04. After restarting the server does not start X. You can fix it somehow?
<popey> do you have backups?
<kasztan_85> popey, no :/
<kvarley> using the usb creator on 11.04 64bit to make a 32bit install usb fails as it makes a 64bit kernel with it for some reason ... any ideas?
<AlanBell> http://raceonline2012.org should we be involved in this?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Re-approvals for O-Cycle rules and overview - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/05/18/re-approvals-for-o-cycle-rules-and-overview/
<daubers> evening
<mfraz74> daubers: evening
<popey> kasztan_85: unetbootin
<popey> er
<popey> kvarley: unetbootin
<popey> sorry kasztan_85
<kvarley> popey: Yeah, resorted to that, it's a downside to the usb creator tool?
<popey> looks like i
<popey> file a bug
<popey> Evan is a nice guy
<popey> you're not the first to mention this to me this week
<kvarley> popey: Hehe, ok
<popey> !info usb-creator
<lubotu3> Package usb-creator does not exist in natty
<popey> meh
<MartijnVdS> !info usb-creator-gtk
<lubotu3> usb-creator-gtk (source: usb-creator): create a startup disk using a CD or disc image (for GNOME). In component main, is optional. Version 0.2.28.3 (natty), package size 27 kB, installed size 240 kB
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^
<knightwise> hey everyone
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<daubers> popey: Seen on wifes fb account "Popey passed his kennel club bronze award, I think the examiner was swayed by his good looks", made me giggle
<shauno> that termkit thing was worse than I was expecting :?
<shauno> piping into grep works .. which is handy because wildcards don't
<kvarley> How big should my swap be?
<kvarley> I have 1GB of ram
<MartijnVdS> just go with what the installer automatically sets
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I'm doing a customized partition layout. I have installed ubuntu many times but have never asked that question before lol
<MartijnVdS> I have 8G RAM, haven't used swap since I upgraded :)
<kvarley> Is it meant to be double the size of your RAM or is that a myth?
<MartijnVdS> I think it's a myth
<MartijnVdS> mine's the same as RAM
<kvarley> But you have 8GB :P
<MartijnVdS> but that might break suspend-to-disk if I'm using swap
<MartijnVdS> so RAM + A bit
<kvarley> Ok thanks :P my normal practice resumes xD
<mikeatvillage> Hi :-) I've just installed Ubuntu 11.04 after trying Lubuntu for a week
<MartijnVdS> mikeatvillage: do you like it?
<mikeatvillage> So far :-)  Unity will not work on my hardware though
<MartijnVdS> have you tried unity 2d?
<MartijnVdS> it still a bit buggy, but it works
<mikeatvillage> No, I'll stick with this for now
<SamJ190494> i don't get what all the hate is with unity
<MartijnVdS> SamJ190494: it's different!
<SamJ190494> if you don't like it, don't use it
<MartijnVdS> SamJ190494: that's going to be harder next release (with no "classic" option)
<SamJ190494> then let the haters go
<SamJ190494> we dont need them
<SamJ190494> let them install gentoo
<SamJ190494> good riddance
<MartijnVdS> Sure, but you can't send them away, can you?
<MartijnVdS> they have to go by themselves
<knightwise> silly question
<knightwise> i"ve just upgraded from 10.10 to 11.04
<knightwise> and .. i dont like unity
<knightwise> so i log in to "ubuntu classic"
<knightwise> but now : No more compiz and stuff ?
<knightwise> Howcomez ?
<SamJ190494> how do yo mean no more compiz?
<knightwise> wel , erm .. no more wobbly windows and stuff
<knightwise> i had them working before the upgrade
<highvoltage> you still get that
<highvoltage> you can configure it from ccsm
<knightwise> ccsm ?
<gord> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/5608156855/official-uds-o-group-photos-now-available - i'm not in it again :(
<SamJ190494> compizconfis settings manager
<SamJ190494> *compiz comfgis
<SamJ190494> bah forget it
<highvoltage> lol
<knightwise> ok , i'll check if i have it :)
<highvoltage> you'll probably have to install it from software center, it's not installed by default
<knightwise> i got it ,
<knightwise> just need to reconfigure it and stuff ,
<knightwise> i think
<gord> also, just to note, Daviey looks like he has been stabbed in that photo
<Myrtti> that picture screams for thinglink
<Daviey> gord, where's wally?
<Daviey> Notice wally is drinking a tea... how terribly british.
<SamJ190494> i think there is a driver issue with ati and java
<popey> :) daubers
<popey> MartijnVdS: ta
<popey> kvarley: ubuntu-bug usb-creator-gtk
<daubers> Can anyone recommend any books about filesystems in general? Even CS textbooks with chapters about it would help me atm
<MartijnVdS> daubers: what problem are you trying to solve? :) or just trying to learn?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Learn and understand :) Also hitting issues at work, and need to understand where they stem from
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.nobius.org/~dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf  -- first google hit for "filesystem design" :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Trying to find a print copy of that :) Can't read for very long on the lappy screen. Makes my eyes go all woogly
<daubers> Hence after dead tree stuff :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: it contains a bar code/ISBN inside
<daubers> MartijnVdS, Not in print though
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Used from Â£12 on the amazons
<daubers> Been trawling ebay for a copy at a reasonable price
<MartijnVdS> 20 for a "very good" copy
<daubers> Can't use amazon :( They made me sad too often
<MartijnVdS> daubers: They're just the middle man -- they don't sell second-hand stuff themselves
<jacobw> has anyone experience of setting up mantis bug tracker?
<daubers> Also, was hoping for something that would cover b-tree based filesystems, as all the cool kids seem to be heading that way
<MartijnVdS> daubers: hang around in #btrfs? :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: That may be so, but they still skim the payment, and I told them to take all my account details off their system :)
<daubers> Maybe I should just buy a kindle to read the pdf on
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Macs and Linux - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/136710.html
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] New Blog Theme - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/05/new-blog-theme/
<MartijnVdS> daubers: good idea :)
<brianb_> can someone tell me if you look at the grub.cfg file should the root entry and intrd point to the same hard drive? if you are multibooting from the ubuntu grub2 bootloader into another distro installed on another partition?
<ali1234> daubers: modern operating systems, tanenbaum
<daubers> ali1234: Ta :)
<ali1234> tanenbaum's stuff is pretty standard
<ali1234> it's not the most in depth but it gives you the basics in everything
<ali1234> computer networks is also very useful
<ali1234> with those two book and k&r you basically have all the information you need to write your own OS
<daubers> ali1234: Cool, I'll add them to my ebay watchlist
<ali1234> there's loads of cheap copies on ebay
<daubers> Yup, ones winging it's way to my front door as we speak
<ali1234> pretty much every comp sci student will have at least one tanenbaum book
<ali1234> so there's plenty of them floating about
<dogmatic69_> anyone know how much work there is in getting the following data with bash...
<dogmatic69_> CPU Utilization, Network In, Network Out, Disk Read Bytes, Disk Write Bytes, Disk Read Ops, and Disk Write Ops
<ali1234> almost none at all?
<ali1234> all that info is available through proc
<ali1234> /proc/loadavg
<dogmatic69_> would it need to run on a cron, or is it already logged?
<ali1234> if you want to log it try using snmp
<ali1234> don't do it from cron, that sucks
<dogmatic69_> hmm
<ali1234> /proc/net/snmp /proc/net/snmp6
<dogmatic69_> was hoping to not have dependancies
<ali1234> /proc/diskstats
<ali1234> i think those 4 cover everything
<ali1234> you can do it from cron if you want but that's going to suck
<ali1234> better to use a logging daemon
<dogmatic69_> how so?
<ali1234> cron is heavy if you are running the script a lot
<ali1234> depends what you want the logs for though
<dogmatic69_> i need to get those details about every 5 or 10 minutes
<ali1234> yes but what for
<dogmatic69_> depending on how it works
<dogmatic69_> pm ok?
<ali1234> if you must
<shauno> dependencies aren't always a bad thing.  the shoulders of giants is pretty much the unix way.  find the right tools, tie them together to do what you need.  senseless avoiding the right tools just because someone else wrote them
<awilkins> Anyone know how to build the alsa-driver package and get the modules installed?
<ali1234> awilkins: i did it once, i can't remember how to do it though
<awilkins> ali1234, Darn, think I found a bug that's annoying me
<awilkins> 'tis in a kernel bit
<ali1234> i don't recall it being particularly hard
<ali1234> i think you just go in /usr/source/alsa-driver and do configure; make; make install
<awilkins> Ah, so you have to install the kernel sources?
<awilkins> I have a bzr branch of the alsa-driver package
<ali1234> you have to install kernel headers at least
<awilkins> ali1234, I think I have those, the folders are there.
 * awilkins installs kernel sources
<ali1234> !info alsa-driver
<lubotu3> Package alsa-driver does not exist in natty
<ali1234> !info alsa-source
<lubotu3> alsa-source (source: alsa-driver): ALSA driver sources. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.24+dfsg-0ubuntu1 (natty), package size 3766 kB, installed size 4076 kB
<ali1234> install that package ^
<ali1234> although alsa-driver is a source package, it "compiles" into a package with source code inside it
<ali1234> if you really found a bug in alsa it needs to go upstream anyway
<awilkins> Reported upstream
<awilkins> But these things have a habit of languishing unless someone tests them
<awilkins> So installing the kernel sources gets you a tarball....
 * awilkins unpacks
 * awilkins copies config from /boot and makes
<ali1234> is it fixed in upstream?
<ali1234> either way you should use git
<ali1234> either cherrypick upstream patch, or make a patch yourself and send it
<awilkins> ali1234, Nope, the ALSA kernel tree is the same as the natty alsa-driver sources for this routine
<ali1234> but what about mainline? 2.6.39?
 * awilkins trying to work it out now
<ali1234> git will help you figure this out
<awilkins> I have a git clone of linus + alsa
<ali1234> ok
<awilkins> Current tip of alsa has what I think is the error
<awilkins> And it was wrong in Maverick as far as I can see also
<ali1234> what i would do
<awilkins> But different wrong
<ali1234> add the ubuntu kernel git
<ali1234> make a patch against alsa
<ali1234> cherrypick it to ubuntu natty
<ali1234> build a new kernel package
<ali1234> send patch to alsa
<awilkins> So that's git://kernel.ubuntu.com ?
<ali1234> there is a repo for each release
<ali1234> add it as a remote
<ali1234> git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-natty.git
<awilkins> Just got there .. fetching
<ali1234> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
<awilkins> I really, really need to get on with my stupid idea to write a K/V tree storage frontend for git
<awilkins> This is ludicrously powerful (no offense to Bazaar)
<ali1234> what does that mean?
<ali1234> k/v tree?
<awilkins> Key value
<ali1234> ok... but what does that mean in practice?
<awilkins> I'm on this project that involves distributed content authoring of lots of objects
<awilkins> The current version control system is basically RCS but worse
<ali1234> git and bazaar are very similar for what i see
<mgdm> there was something on Hacker News the other day about how Git is an elaborate NoSQL store, if you squint a bit
<ali1234> nosql is just silly, it doesn't really mean anything afaict
<awilkins> mgdm, Yeah, it is that really
<BigRedS> I tend to treat 'nosql' in much the same way as I treat 'cloud'
<awilkins> It's a K/V store itself, stores content on it's SHA1 key
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> so what would this frontend do?
<awilkins> What I want to do is a frontend you can version the contents of other KV stores with (by adding a few extra objects to the KV stores and basically making them into a virtual filesystem)
<ali1234> git can already pull in from other scm systems
<awilkins> You need the tree objects to make it efficient or you'd end up with one big global tree with all the blobs in
<awilkins> I've seen people ask if git can be used to version SQL databases and I think the answer there is they are too rigidly structured, but you can add a layer of meta-structure to a KV store that gives it some of the properties of a file system, which is what git needs to work well
<awilkins> Was trying to extend jgit to do this, but brain hurts a lot when trying
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Creating An Ubuntu Power User Community - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/18/creating-an-ubuntu-power-user-community/
<ali1234> hmm i see
<ali1234> yeah you'd have to flatten out the database in a sense
<ali1234> into a filesystem
<ali1234> which would probably negate the benefits of using tables
<Azelphur> OMG youtube is broken
<Azelphur> EVERYBODY PANIC.
<awilkins> ali1234, The idea is to construct a "folder structure" over the tuples so it can efficiently determine which bits to update and version
<Azelphur> oh it's back now.
<ali1234> awilkins: yeah so like, a virtual filesystem just for git to pull from, right?
<awilkins> ali1234, A VFS for git to check out into
 * awilkins wonders if he really needs a 190MB archive of tex documentation to build a kernel
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-19
<awilkins> Blech, C enums provide no type safety
<brianb_> any multi boot experts?
<brianb_> im tryin to use ubuntu 10.10 grub2 to boot into other linux distros using chain-load
<brianb_> which are installed on a separte partition togther with their boot loader
<brianb_> when i try to boot into the other disto i get a kernel panic
<brianb_> the only thing i can see is on the grub.cfg file is that: the root=(hd0,msdos8) and the initrd (hdo,7)/boot/initrd.img
<brianb_> is this correct?
 * awilkins is very very very very bored at the time it take to compile kernels
<awilkins> noooooooooo it's got the wrong version number
<awilkins> yaaaay now it has the right version number
 * awilkins now undergoes a scary moment as he installs his new kernel and reboots
 * awilkins notes that he is running a new kernel and his computer didn't explode
 * awilkins notes that alas his patch did not fix things
<awilkins> Maybe I'm not running the new modules
<awilkins> Gah
<Apacheuk> morning or is it too early?
<samuel_> lo all
<daubers> Morning
<diplo> Morning
<samuel_> morning!
 * daubers starts the long arduous task of data analysis from 3 days worth of hardware testing
<DJones> Morning
<fcuk112> morning!
<dogmatic69> o/
<popey> X3N: can you change the ubuntu-uk loco team to be delegated and not moderated?
<popey> or Daviey
<popey> AlanBell: http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/19/dell-streak-pro-honeycomb-tablet-pictured-likely-to-be-with-us/
<popey> thats a proper size phone ;)
<bigcalm> Where are we? I've lost my place in this week :|
<dwatkins> This is a proper sized phone... ;-) http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/retro-telephones/index.html
<dwatkins> sold out? noooooooo!
<dwatkins> I was saving up for one.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://gsm-telecom.marktplaats.nl/vaste-telefoons-niet-draadloos/447319718-ptt-telefoon-type-t65-de-luxe-oranje-ericsson.html
<popey> long ago (10+ years) I had an idea to take a kids telephone and put the guts of a mobile phone in it
<dwatkins> nice idea, popey - I'm considering buying an old classic dial phone and making it work with my BT line
<bigcalm> "The Retro Phones are compatible with BT and other service providers which support pulse technology. The most notable provider which DOES NOT is Virgin Media as the Retro Phones are not DNA(Dual Networking Approved)."
<dwatkins> heh
<dwatkins> what would be awesome is making it into a SIP phone
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: My brother has a converter
<bigcalm> I surprised that they aren't tone dial in the background
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it takes pulses and converts them to tones :)
<DJones> dwatkins: http://www.firebox.com/product/3311/Retro-Telephones
<bigcalm> Ah, they are real old phones
<MartijnVdS> http://www.oldphoneworks.com/rotatone-pulse-to-tone-converter.html
<dwatkins> DJones: thanks
<DJones> I'd been looking at that myself at the weekend
<DJones> Although I was more interested in this http://www.firebox.com/product/3575/DTV-Shredder
<bigcalm> Heh
<dwatkins> I aw the link to the DTV shredder and wondered why you would want to shred a joystick with a built-in C64, DJones ;)
<bigcalm> I like this track on last.fm "LFO - Freeze (Labradford remix)" but is has a constant high piched tone that rivals my tinitus :(
<MooDoo> hello all
<DJones> All says hello MooDoo
<bigcalm> #ubuntu-uk has evolved into a hive mind
<DJones> Resistance is futile
<gord> must acquire cake.
 * DJones assimilates some chocolate Bourbon biscuits
<bigcalm> http://images.darkhorse.com/darkhorse/index_images/blog/awesomeprofile.jpg
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo o/
<bigcalm> Damn it. iTunes has frozen again. I keep forgetting that I must not let a video run to the very end
<bigcalm> Hi kids
<BigRedS> yes
<BigRedS> argh!
<BigRedS> but hi
<bigcalm> :)
 * BigRedS restarts terminator
<BigRedS> Ahhhh
<BigRedS> Anyway, hi bigcalm
<BigRedS> :)
<bigcalm> Hi BigRedS
<JamesTait> Good morning!
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<BigRedS> Any people running Gnome with two monitors? I'm wondering if Gnome does this too?
<BigRedS> bug 784761
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 784761 in kdebase-workspace (Ubuntu) ""identify outputs" doesn't identify outputs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784761
<bigcalm> It doesn't identify outputs on 1 monitor for me
<DJones> Yay, I may be entitled to Â£3,650 compensation for the accident I had according a text message, although I want more than Â£3,650 for the effects of the serious memory loss that mean I've forgotten about the accident
<gord> maybe its about that time you sat down where there wasn't a chair
<gord> thats pretty emotionally draining
<DJones> Good thought, although I don't remember that one, /me adds another Â£10,000 onto the claim
<BigRedS> bigcalm: ooh, not at all?
<BigRedS> weird
<oimon> so thats why my insurance has gone up 60%
<oimon> or is it because they can't be bothered to do anything about those without any
<BigRedS> q
<BigRedS> bah. :(
<davmor2> morning all
 * oimon spent last night scanning barcodes of his dvd's..now onto the book collection :)
<Laney> what for?
<hamitron> catalogue them maybe?
<hamitron> sounds pretty cool, if that is why :)
<oimon> hamitron: yep, also to share with people
<oimon> and keep track of what i've read etc
<oimon> i've always wanted to do it but never had a barcode reader before
<oimon> i have many 100s of books
<diplo> I use alexandria for that for books, using isbn codes
<diplo> barcode does seem easier
<hamitron> how software are you using to store the information?
<hamitron> what*
<oimon> diplo: yep, android will do it for you, then i am exporting into google books and tellico
<hamitron> tellico is for music?
<oimon> tellico is for collections
<oimon> dvd, books, wine, etc
<hamitron> kk
<diplo> look ok under gnome/unity oimon ?
<oimon> not too bad, better than some apps. alexandria is prob better but doesn't handle dvd collections
<diplo> Just installed, going to give it a go :)
<diplo> Really need to get my android phone sooner rather than later :/
<oimon> the app i used on android is called shelves
<oimon> it can export to google books , csv, etc
<diplo> Cool, imports as well from alexandria
<oimon> i may end up using alexandria
<oimon> just wish there was an option for "go and find cover art" and detect dupplicates
<diplo> on alexandria ?
<hamitron> I was hoping I could maybe scan the bar code of a cd, then rip it to mp3
<hamitron> :)
<oimon> :P
<gord> i use backloggery.com to keep track of my video game collection - would be nice to scan things in though instead of manually doing it
<gord> http://backloggery.com/gordallott - 213 =\ and i don't put my steam games on there...
<oimon> tellico also does games
<oimon> video + board games
 * oimon thinks gord has a lot of consoles...
<diplo> So oimon you use android to put on google books, not tellico
<gord> yup :)
<diplo> nice if you could export from tellico
<oimon> diplo: here's the process (1) use shelves app to collect the data via barcode reader (2) export list of ISBNs from shelves app (3) import into alexandria/google books/tellico and the app searches and gathers cover art
<oimon> and other data
<oimon> it's also possible just to use the barcode reader app to gather raw barcodes
<diplo> yeah, need android phone :) wanted one for over a year now but money is not permitting :(
<diplo> Defo going to give it a go though
<oimon> what's yr budget?
<oimon> my android phone costs me Â£15 pm for 24m contract
<diplo> fook all at the mo, wife left me a few months ago and just watching moolah atm
<oimon> :(
<diplo> Yep
<oimon> (hug)
<oimon> (man hug)
<diplo> Taken on a house that we could barely afford and running it all on my own
<diplo> heh ta
<diplo> Actually doing better this month than I though
<diplo> +t
<oimon> i think you can use a webcam to gather barcodes
<oimon> but autofocus is a big bonus
<diplo> But decided it's probably best not to tie myself into a 24mnth contract
<oimon> sounds wise
<diplo> that's an idea, I've actually done 90% of my books already
<diplo> might try that with my dvd's
<oimon> i have considerably less dvd than books
<diplo> I've probably got it the other way round
<diplo> Only last 3-4 years I've got back into, or actually *into* reading
<diplo> But I now power through a book every few days/week
<oimon> i'm the opposite..my books reading slowed down in last few years
<oimon> i've even cancelled my sub to linux magazine
<diplo> heh, Linux Format is my bog reading material, can't cancel that yet
<diplo> :P
<hamitron> heh
<hamitron> I used to love linux format, but it just seemed to cover the same beginners material all the time
<hamitron> and the different subjects I was interested in were never in the detail I'd like
<hamitron> so I cancelled it and set the money saved aside for books
<hamitron> :)
<X3N> popey: done (re: delegated)
<X3N> glad that's fixed now
<oimon> linux magazine is better IMHO
<diplo> yeah I like them both, but couldn't really afford subs for both
<diplo> I occasionally buy Linux Magazine
<X3N> Anyone know where the settings for gconf keys /system/networking are stored on file ?
<X3N> nm got it
<popey> nice one X3N
<gord> X3N, don't modify the files, i don't know if thats what you are thinking of doing, but don't ;)
<X3N> I'm not, just want to view them
<ntelford> I want to force applications to not use the mscorett of Freefont fonts at all, instead using equivilents from Liberation and DejaVu - is there a way to do this without removing the packages?
<ntelford> if I remove the packages, apt complains about dependency resolution
<BigRedS> because packages rely on having those fonts?
<oimon> ntelford: can you paste the error into pastebin?
<oimon> although system-preferences-appearance-fonts should allow you to choose fonts
<ntelford> oimon, I want to override the fonts in Chrome/Firefox because the mscorett fonts look god awful
<ntelford> but I think I have a better solution
<X3N> ntelford: is there not an option in about:config
<X3N> I think you can blacklist a particular font
<oimon> why is it that even though my lunch today is exactly the same size as the evening meal i had last night, but when i have it for lunch, i need to eat crisps afterwards too ?
<X3N> because the amount of time expending energy after lunch is greater than that after dinner?
<popey> dinner dinner dinner dinner dinner dinner dinner dinner dinner
<popey>  ____    _  _____ __  __    _    _   _ _
<popey> | __ )  / \|_   _|  \/  |  / \  | \ | | |
<popey> |  _ \ / _ \ | | | |\/| | / _ \ |  \| | |
<popey> | |_) / ___ \| | | |  | |/ ___ \| |\  |_|
<popey> |____/_/   \_\_| |_|  |_/_/   \_\_| \_(_)
<popey>                                          
<oimon> fail
<Azelphur> popey: batman?
<oimon> i think it's cos i have conditioned myself to eat crisps at 1pm every day whatever happens
<oimon> for the last 30 years
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/610058/
<popey> not fail :)
<Azelphur> lol
<gord> i get the same here :)
<gord> oimon, fail ;)
<popey> :)
<oimon> oh...pidgin fail?
 * oimon tucks into another easter egg...last one :(
<Azelphur> popey: I was rank #31 on my pool last night, 950mhash :)
<MartijnVdS> F1 fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KfLyTSuD_s
<popey> yay
<popey> Azelphur: have you got millions of BTC now then :)
<MartijnVdS> 21 million, probaly
<Azelphur> popey: I'm up to 15.60 atm
 * MartijnVdS has 0.02
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> :p
<oimon> 2nd attempt to install freenx server on scientific linux :(
<oimon> it used to be that admins use redhat cos it's easy..now not so easy when you only have ancient packages and other weirdness
<popey> we use redhat because it's the only supported platform :(
<popey> well, other than SUSE, but who uses _that_ who isn't German
<oimon> yaeh
<oimon> i am tending to use ubuntu server for the stuff that needs to be current, or updated
<oimon> e.g. web stufff/drupal
<daubers> popey: The BBC uses SUSE :)
<popey> hah
<popey> yeah, Siemens, German.
<oimon> i see suse are retreating to nuremburg
<oimon> i wonder how many people go to #ubuntu with questions and give up, not knowing that all the friendly people are in here :)
<MartijnVdS> Friendly? Us? :)
<MartijnVdS> This is the Ukraine channel, right?
<popey> YOU ALL SUCK
<popey> (at being unfriendly)
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<jpds> MartijnVdS: ÑÑÐ¾?
<MartijnVdS> jpds: Ð¢Ð°Ðº, Ð´ÑÐ¹ÑÐ½Ð¾.
<oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/p/uIQ/
<oimon> ^^ very unhelpful error !
<oimon> which one is the X setting, and which is the gnome setting
<MartijnVdS> oimon: yes!
<oimon> they need a "i'm feelng lucky" button
<oimon> i chose X...seems it was the right thing
<oimon> the stuff you find on ubuntuone roulette can be fascinating..is this a jackalope? http://ubuntuone.com/p/aIA/
<popey> yeah
<popey> i had that as my background at one point
 * oimon wonders if popey is the gatekeeper of the internet ...nothing seems to get past him
<popey> None shall pass!
<MartijnVdS> Gatekeepers.. aren't those H.323 stuff?
<MartijnVdS> internet telephony "the old way"
 * bigcalm awakens from lunch
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: just in time for tea! :)
<bigcalm> Oh, yes please. Skimmed milk, no sugar :)
<MartijnVdS> I only have water with leaves. No milk, no sugar.
 * daubers really wants to try proper macha
<oimon> macha pacha?
<MartijnVdS> machu picchu?
<oimon> fu man chu?
<MartijnVdS> ubuntu one?
<oimon> macka packa
<selinuxium> Ever felt like you joined the conversation at the wrong point....  :D
<oimon> :D
<oimon> i disable leave/join notifications :P
<MartijnVdS> so do I
<oimon> and those annoying ones from freenode
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matcha
<oimon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makka_Pakka
<oimon> iggle piggle looks like that lembit opik fella: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12MEYp7IzAU
<bigcalm> popey: that android tablet that hasn't been built yet has had its specs updated: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/610083/
<popey> which tablet?
<bigcalm> The one I ordered
<popey> you ordered one and it hasnt even been made yet?
<bigcalm> Sorry, there is another tablet worth talking about? :P
<bigcalm> Heh, looks like it
<bigcalm> I pre-ordered the 1st production run
<bigcalm> Updated shipping dates are now 3rd - 16th June
<popey> o_O
<oimon> the screen has changed since i last saw it: Â 800 x 480
<bigcalm> Erm, 3rd to 17th June
<popey> hah
<popey> low res-o-vision
<bigcalm> Yup
<bigcalm> But in a 7" screen
<bigcalm> My eeepc has a 10" screen and does 800x
<oimon> i guess the deal breaker is the battery
<oimon> how long it lasts
<bigcalm> We shall see...
<bigcalm> But what would you expect for 89quid +p&p?
<popey> heh
<popey> ponies
<popey> and unicorns
<popey> eek!
<popey> its an aquarius
<oimon> hmm was hoping this would be cheaper http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004TB0EMK/ref=asc_df_B004TB0EMK2914569?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B004TB0EMK
<bigcalm> One has just turned up for you ;)
<aquarius> popey, it is indeed
<bigcalm> aquarius: arse news, sorry man. In other news, how's the standing up going?
<aquarius> bigcalm, feet hurt. Other than that, not too bad :)
<oimon> nice...switch to PC mode with Qwerty keyboard and 16 hours added battery life
<oimon> i hope canonical are getting their arm builds ready for this eee transformer thingy
<bigcalm> You save: Â£0.01
<oimon> lol..actually i want http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Transformer-Android-docking-keyboard/dp/tech-data/B004TB0EXY/ref=de_a_smtd
<popey> oimon: i spy a google tag on that amazon link
<popey> interesting, wonder how much google make from amazon referals
<MartijnVdS> $a_lot
<MartijnVdS> approximately
<oimon> $a_lot * loads
<oimon> popey: do you make much from referral tags?
<oimon> i see you post them a lot ;)
<popey> i dont post them a lot
<oimon> a lot being once i noticed it, hence the winky ;)
<oimon> i've never looked into it
<oimon> but i had to set it up the other day to get my amazon api key
<popey> no, I dont get much from it
<popey> used to get a lot of google adsense revenue when I had a site that had lots of keywords on it
<oimon> hmm
<dwatkins> I was just looking up the EeePad Transformer elsewhere.
<dwatkins> I'm interested to see what it is like: http://www.asuseeepad.net/eee-pad-transformer.php
<oimon> dwatkins: i want one, but i made the mistake with eee 701...hopefully these things will be more advanced by the time my laptop finally dies
<oimon> but it certainly looks like something i'd want :)
<dwatkins> oimon: I was lucky in that not long after the 701 came out, a family member wanted a tiny laptop to take abroad, so I was able to get a 901 with the proceeds.
<oimon> :)
<dwatkins> Now I wish I'd waited and got a 1005HA, though - they're actually properly useable.
<dwatkins> The 901 is a little slow - so it's now my media / file server.
<oimon> wow...must get hot
<dwatkins> I don't play media with it, that's up to the PS3 or my Mac. It just serves out files via NFS, sshfs or fuppes.
<oimon> ok..like my nslu2
<oimon> soon to be replaced with a raspberry pi if they appear
<BigRedS> dwatkins: there are open-wrtable routers that'll do that
<BigRedS> mount a ums device and nfs it
<dwatkins> BigRedS: you mean things like the Kuro box?
<dwatkins> (I may not have written that correctly)
<dwatkins> wow, they're expensive
<BigRedS> dwatkins: not sure. ~Â£40, is basically a router with a usb socket
<BigRedS> I can't remember the other details, but they were on an open-wrt community of some sort
<oimon> e.g. Netgear WRT54GL
<oimon> ? although not sure if they have usb?
<dwatkins> ooh neat
<dwatkins> didn't expect them to be that cheapo
<dwatkins> cheap, I mean - I wasn't trying to sound pseudo-spanish
<oimon> umm the wrt54gl doesn't allow usb storage
<oimon> ugh my experience of irc rooms (present company excepted) is less than poor most of the time :(
<DJones> Are you sitting in #defocus?
<dogmatic69>  /whois <user> :)
<DJones> dogmatic69: That wouldn't always work depending on their user flags, you can block people finding out what channels you're in unless you're both in the same channel
<dogmatic69> oh rly
<bigcalm> rly
<popey> YA RLY!
<dogmatic69> dont mind me then :P
<DJones> dogmatic69: Just checked up, usermode +i and its enabled by default
<dogmatic69> i see
<nucc1> is there an ubuntu-uk channel for like off-topic chatter?
<oimon> it's called ubuntu-uk isn't it?
<oimon> :)
<nucc1> so off-topic talk is permitted huh?
<davmor2> oimon: no we always talk ubuntu here?
<oimon> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<popey> er
<nucc1> oh well, i just curious about Hutchinson 3G's policy to start charging for SMS delivery reports
<popey> why?
<popey> please don't abuse ops
<oimon> popey: doesn't that just tell me who the ops are?
<popey> no, it highlights them all
<DJones> nucc1: As long as its coc safe, its normally fine, although if it goes a long way off topic and somebody wants support we just ask for the offtopic chat to pause for a bit
<BigRedS> oimon: and print their names to screen...
<davmor2> oimon: it pings them all normally to say there is an issue
<oimon> woops sorry :P
<DJones> oimon: It normally causes the ops to look at the channel & kick/ban the trouble maker :)
<dwatkins> hence the word 'Help!' which in this case I'm guessing you don't need, oimon ;)
<oimon> unfortunately it's only after typing the command that you find out...
<oimon> nucc1: btw who are hutchinson?
<nucc1> 3
<nucc1> Three
<oimon> ah..i also wonder how long before they change their mind on "use all you want data "
<nucc1> oimon, that will probably stay. they're the most liberal network with their data plans
<DJones> nucc1: I can see where they're coming from, effectively it doubles the amount of text messages sent, but I'd just expect it to count towards your limit anyway
<kaushal> Hi
<oimon> nucc1: for now, but once the customers come then they will change policy, i'm sure
<kaushal> I have a torrent file to download on the remote server. Do i need to have a torrent application on the server or wget would suffice ?
<nucc1> DJones, yea, that would have been preferable perhaps
<czajkowski> Aloha
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> meh
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
<diplo> kaushal, wget will be able to grab the file but not download the torrent files themselves
<kaushal> diplo: ok
<diplo> rtorrent is a cli based torrent client i think
<kaushal> ok
<diplo> !info rtorrrent
<lubotu3> Package rtorrrent does not exist in natty
<diplo> Nope, don't know te command
<popey> yes
<diplo> oops i did
<popey> you mistyped
<diplo> !info rtorrent
<lubotu3> rtorrent (source: rtorrent): ncurses BitTorrent client based on LibTorrent from rakshasa. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.8.6-1build1 (natty), package size 449 kB, installed size 1200 kB
<diplo> :D
<diplo> just noticed extra R :)
<dwatkins> or download it yourself and scp it, kaushal
<diplo> Depends on size I guess
<oimon> dwatkins: you use freenx don't you?
<diplo> Don't want to double bandwith
<dwatkins> oimon: yeah
<kaushal> popey: rtorrent file.torrent ?
<oimon> do u know if it's possible to use user based private key auth with freenx?
<dwatkins> diplo: I meant just the .torrent file could be copied via scp from your machine to the remote server on which you're running rtorrent
<dwatkins> oimon: you can replace the keys used, yeah - there's an article on the ubuntu forums about it
<oimon> the default setup is to use a private key belonging to nx user, however all users get the same key.
<diplo> :) dwatkins
<popey> kaushal: hmm?
<BigRedS> how do I tell if I have unity 2d or 3d?
<BigRedS> I seem to not be using any fancy 3d features, but I'm really not used to looking out for those in a window manager
<davmor2> BigRedS: did you install 2d?
<BigRedS> not manually
<oimon> dwatkins: i'd be grateful if you could provide a link if poss, i've been googling but most result are realted to the nx user key
<BigRedS> I just did a dist-upgrade and logged in
<davmor2> BigRedS: then you either have gnome classic or unity
<davmor2> 3d
<popey> 2d wont have drop shadows will it?
<BigRedS> ah, this isn't gnome classic
<BigRedS> cool
<BigRedS> from somewhere I got the idea that 2d came with 3d and it just picked the most appropriate one
<davmor2> BigRedS: if it has a launcher down the left and a panel along the top it's unity 3d
<dwatkins> oimon: here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX and here:  http://www.nomachine.com/ar/view.php?ar_id=AR01C00126 - I think
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, it does
<oimon> dwatkins: marvellous..thankyou.
<dwatkins> welcome oimon
<oimon> ubuntu-uk wins again as the irc room that gets the questions answered...lately had questions in #kde #nx and many others gone unnoticed
<oimon> dwatkins: ah those are custom ssh keys for still for the nx user
<dwatkins> hmmm
<dwatkins> not for individual users? I wondered if there might be a mention on there about it, sorry - can't really check right now
<oimon> no probs
 * dwatkins should be heading home right now but has far too much to do
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> how's things with you guys?
<dwatkins> peachy, thanks - how's andylockran?
<oimon> mmm kde 3.5
<exobuzz> i had tsclient and vinagre installed on my natty install. i can only assume they get put on by default. but why not remmina ? im sure i read it was going to switch to that
<exobuzz> with all the package switches happening, seems strange that this obvious one hasnt been dealt with
 * popey waves his hands in the air like he just doens't care
<popey> \:)?
<popey> bah
<popey> fail
<popey> âº
<czajkowski> FAIL!
<paultag> FAIL!
 * popey hides
<oimon> i use tsclient..when i looked at vinagre it was lame
<popey> â¹
<exobuzz> oimon, yes and natty seemed to install both ? im referring to replacing both with remmina
<czajkowski> yay
<oimon> exobuzz: just installed it...looks OK
<oimon> ^^ remmina
<exobuzz> yeh it's way better than the others
<oimon> vinagre was half baked and then left outside for the birds
<davmor2> popey: Word up, it's the code word......
<popey> ALERT ALERT! 80's ALERT!
<davmor2> popey: you started it with your waving of hands :P
<oimon> cameo...bad hair
<oimon> 80s was bad then and it's bad now
<exobuzz> has anyone here had a go on the latest xubuntu/xfce ? i watched a screencast and it looked pretty decent
<oimon> the "new 80s"
<exobuzz> and i see now it has a vfs layer which is nice
 * popey is happy that there are no photos of me from the 80's anywhere online
<davmor2> oimon: wash your mouth out with soapy water
<oimon> exobuzz: why have they done a complete overhaul of teh UI? ;)
<davmor2> popey: I'm betting FB of you class photos
<exobuzz> oimon, no. its always been pretty tidy etc, but was missing some stuff before for me like gnomevfs etc
<oimon> btw has remmina improved since lucid? seems nice here
<exobuzz> its improved a lot
<exobuzz> its pretty new
<exobuzz> the 0.8 series brought some big changes
 * oimon tries the ppa
<davmor2> exobuzz: must be good it has an 8 an 0 and a .  it's only missing the s to make it perfect
<oimon> oooo 0.9.3
<exobuzz> davmor2, that went over my head :
<exobuzz> :) even
<davmor2> exobuzz: just keep the 80's. theme alive :D
<exobuzz> there is an 80s theme ?
<popey> Yes, its the Knight Rider theme
<davmor2> yeap popey started it
<exobuzz> irc channel 80s theme ?
<exobuzz> speaking of knight rider, my mum brought over some old stuff the other day. included my knight rider album with the hoff
<exobuzz> http://digilander.libero.it/davidhasselhoff/foto/covers/covers_1984/images/1984_TheKnightRiderAlbumByChipLovitt_US.jpg
<exobuzz> that one
<exobuzz> knight rider. c64 styleee http://modstream.exotica.org.uk/modstream/?md5=7215d1d4b2df4722de6f472e82c36121&db=hvsc&sg=1
<ali1234> !info bamf
<lubotu3> Package bamf does not exist in natty
<ali1234> hmm
<popey> bamfdaemon
<popey> !info bamfdaemon
<lubotu3> bamfdaemon (source: bamf): Window matching library - daemon. In component main, is optional. Version 0.2.90-0ubuntu3 (natty), package size 42 kB, installed size 192 kB
<MartijnVdS> sounds like something from a Batman comic
<MartijnVdS> BAMF!
<MartijnVdS> KAPOW!
<popey> Holy window decorations Batman!
<X3N> hum
<brobostigon> lol
<X3N> popey: delegated still means I have to approve everyone joining the lp team :/
<X3N> it only means that the sub teams can be open
<X3N> oh wait
<popey> ah
<popey> can you make it open then
<popey> sorry, i misunderstood
<X3N> I wonder if the parent team is now delegated
<popey> it is
<popey> locoteams-approved is delegated
<X3N> cool, in that case we can go back to being open
<Myrtti> aw, I thought I was needed and wanted :-(
<Myrtti> boo hilights
<exobuzz> sudo apt-get install ack-grep - just a recommendation to a tool I use almost daily.. http://betterthangrep.com/ :)
<AlanBell> X3N: yeah, open is good
<Myrtti> meh, had to reschedule my flights back to Finland from UK :-(
<Myrtti> get barely 14 hours of time on British soil after landing to Heathrow before heading back to Finland
<Myrtti> this makes me a sad puppy
<brobostigon> :(
<AlanBell> Myrtti: so what are you packing in to that brief window?
<Myrtti> AlanBell: trip to Heathrow to fly to SFO, and back
<Myrtti> or the 14 hours?
<AlanBell> the 14 hours
<Myrtti> Indian takeaway.
<AlanBell> yay
<AlanBell> is that overnight at one of the heathrow hotels or something?
<Myrtti> overnight in the Fens before heading to Stansted to fly Ryanscare
<AlanBell> Ryanair to SFO O_o didn't know they did that
<Myrtti> they don't
<Myrtti> hence the Ryanair to STN, overnight in Fens, drive to LHR - drive from LHR, overnight in Fens, Ryanair from STN
<Myrtti> my life rocks... not.
<davmor2> Myrtti: seeing the country one airport at a time :(
<daubers> evening
<Azelphur> anyone know how to get remote desktop working with virtualbox? I enabled remote desktop in the vm's settings, set it to null auth, trying to connect to it with terminal server client and getting no connection :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: what kind of remote desktop protocol are you using?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: have you tried using "vinagre" (vnc client)
<Azelphur> RDP
<MartijnVdS> Most open-source tools use VNC, where Windows uses RDP
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: VirtualBox does RDP? I saw no mention of VNC for VirtualBox
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: try it :)
 * MartijnVdS shaved a yak. Once the paint dries.
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nope, connection refused :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: :( Are  you connecting to the right machine? Usually you have to connect to the _host_
<Azelphur> yes, I'm connecting to the host
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: is it one process? Check what port it's listening on using netstat and/or lsof
<Azelphur> lol, I'll try #vbox quickly and see if they know what I did wrong
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: nothing wrong with those tools.. and port can tell a lot :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: something weird has to be up anyway, I've hit enable server and set the port, and that port isn't open
<Azelphur> so not working right somehow :D
<samuel_> evening all
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: maybe  you need to restart it?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: you can't modify settings while the vm is running, so it got restarted :)
<AlanBell> iMalware http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13453497
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Ubuntu is just as vulnerable, I think?
<shauno> the permissions setup is almost identical, so I don't see why not
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: depends the Ubuntu repos are pretty safe so you may only get issues if you install things from out side of that realm which is probably what has happened here
<MartijnVdS> let's stop sending our OS version in the User-Agent, makes it at least a little harder to guess which one to show :)
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: it is, yes
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Sure, but how many people still download debs instead of using software-centre?
<shauno> It's mostly "how many people will blindly do as they're told by a page that claims to be / appears to be authorative"
<shauno> that's difficult to fix
<AlanBell> the OMG!Ubuntu! problem
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: OMG!
<mgdm> I hate that site purely based on the name
<mgdm> I've no idea what the content's like
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: OMGWTFBBQBuntu
<mgdm> (though I can guess)
<mgdm> I prefer "OMGBBQFTW"
<AlanBell> mgdm: that leads to the dark side
<AlanBell> to the dark side that leads
<shauno> for this to work, they have to download the program/zip/archive, accept the 'do you trust where this program came from' dialogue, then enter their sudo password
<AlanBell> shauno: which people do
<MartijnVdS> shauno: or just a deb, double click and enter a password (like for all debs)
<shauno> if you can convince a user to do this, there's not much the OS can do about it
<MartijnVdS> shauno: and they'll do it -- especially if they think it's "security software"
<MartijnVdS> because computer security = scary
<davmor2> AlanBell: you forgot the hmmm  you'll never sound like yoda without it
<AlanBell> or it is in a PPA, therefore it must be good
<MartijnVdS> Sure, we can write blacklist functionality into gdebi/apt.. but do we want that?
<shauno> that's more difficult than it sounds.  that'd just turn into a race
<MartijnVdS> It's going to be one anyway
<MartijnVdS> (as long as humans use computers)
<shauno> how many people can they catch before you match the filename/md5/crc/etc
<MartijnVdS> shauno: a lot.
<davmor2> When ubuntu gets firewalls and antivirus on the cd start to panic :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: then it's time to switch to BeOS
<shauno> to be honest, there's not really much permissions do about things either these days
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: minuetos written in assembly :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Scary man
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: try it, it is fun, floppy sized distro
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I've been thinking about learning some x86 asm myself.. have a spare machine I can try it on (from BIOS onwards)
<MartijnVdS> though BIOS is becoming obsolete now with EFI
<shauno> with only the permissions of my current user, a process can stick itself in your crontab, or your gnome-session.  have full access to all the files you actually care about on your machine, etc  (the OS is disposable.  my photos aren't).
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: networking is likely to not work but hey who needs that on a secure box any way right :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: still a fun os though
<davmor2> lots a bling for something so small
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I remember DOS asm from way back
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: haha
<MartijnVdS> I need to persuade my dad to set up his old 8080 again
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> dual-Z80 I think it is
<MartijnVdS> same difference
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://ubuntuone.com/p/uO3/ in virtbox
<MartijnVdS> whoa
<shauno> http://www.returninfinity.com/baremetal.html  looks kinda interesting for a poke around with asm
<shauno> doesn't do a whole lot, but it's small enough to be pretty readable
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://ubuntuone.com/p/uOJ/ nice windows on it to I wonder how they got the title bar so transparent :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: that's not too hard
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: in assembly?
<davmor2> any way I'm off night all
<jel> shauno, cool :)  Though AmigaOS was half that size, and did a whole heap more :D
<shauno> half of 32k?
<jel> half of the zip file size.  might well have had a tiny memory footprint
<jel> I suppose it's apples-to-oranges, since that's source.
<jel> and docs etc.
<shauno> the VMs are a lot bigger than they need to be, because they've thrown qemu in there too
<shauno> wow, no wonder that was sucking so badly.  the copy of qemu I have, only had the x86_64 emu built for ppc.
<AlanBell> with the avahi dns thing that allows me to ping server.local does that work on Mac and Windows too?
<shauno> it'll work with osx, don't believe it'll work with windows unless they've installed bonjour
<shauno> (which most things that are quicktime based will do against your will these days, but is difficult to depend on)
<shauno> but between avahi and osx's ms-dns, compatibility is high enough that I've never noticed the difference
<shauno> hm, not ms-dns apparently.  can't find the name of the service now.  but that's not the important bit :)
<AlanBell> ok, thanks
<shauno> oddly, it works in windows for me, but only when I'm using my router as a dns server.  so I've no idea what black magic it's doing to translate
<shauno> it's an apple router, so it's prone to doing strange things behind my back
 * DJones wonders if Azelphur has broken IRC
<Azelphur> gah, I really hate it when freenode does that
<mgdm> does what?
<Azelphur> mgdm: lets me join channels, something happens to interrupt my connection, then it repeatedly kicks me for excess flood when attempting to rejoin the channels
<mgdm> your client is trying to rejoin too fast
<Azelphur> mgdm: sort of, it sends JOIN like 30 times for every channel, plus a couple other commands required for connection, and boom I'm off :P
<mgdm> your client is broken
<Azelphur> mgdm: maybe :p
 * awilkins wishes he had enabled ccache last night
<awilkins> And tonight too....
<exobuzz> anyone here with an xbox1 ?
<shauno> marking a bug as a duplicate, what's the 'proper' way to decide which one gets marked?
<shauno> (one is older, the other has more people subscribed and ticked 'affected'.  but neither really has more info than the other)
<DJones> Is there a way of merging the two bugs?
<gord> shauno, i tend to just keep the one that has activity alive, mark the other as the dupe
<gord> no point in annoying people and making more work for people
<shauno> that's what I just tried .. turned out it migrates the subscribers anyway, so wasn't as messy as I thought it'd be
<danfish> awilkins: you got a moment for a quick PM?
<AlanBell> shauno: generally oldest, unless there is clearly better information in the comments on the newer one
<danfish> evening all btw
<Guest18839> hi guys, i was trying to configure my computer with vga switcheroo, and its asking me to add a line to the rc.local as chown "username" /sys/kernel/debug/vgaswitcheroo/switch # change "username" with your user name....can any one give me the command if rmp is my username how should i replace it, with "rmp" or just rmp.....thanks
<Azelphur> popey: http://apple.slashdot.org/story/11/05/19/1410245/Apple-Causes-Religious-Reaction-In-Brains-of-Fans
 * Azelphur runs
<samuel_> i saw that on tv last night...awful bit of tech reporting as usual by the bbc
<ali1234> i don't see why this is a big shock to anyone
<exobuzz> i get excited like that about 1980s hardware rather than new stuff ;-)
<exobuzz> vectrex. wooOOOooo.. high 5..
<ali1234> i bet the same thing happens with football fans watching their favourite team
<exobuzz> OT: http://www.xbmc4xbox.org/xbmc4xbox-3-0-1-stable-released - just because its taken more than a year and we finally managed it.. :)
<shauno> just tells me the beeb have figured out the same thing as the rest of the tech sites.  if your story's too boring to stand up on it's own, just add apple
<popey> exobuzz: oooo!
<popey> I need to update my xbox!
<samuel_> yup, as i said - awful technology reporting from the bbc - normal occurrance
<samuel_> their description of the rise of microsoft had me shouting at the tv, i had to switch it over
<danfish> popey: I read Jono's post re ubuntu power users. He's looking for a leader - fancy applying? ;)
<popey> hahah
<popey> funny man
 * awilkins does the dance. Kernel bug fixed, maximum wootage!
<DJones> May be of interest to somebody http://www.itworld.com/unified-communications/166637/5-skype-alternatives-linux-users
<awilkins> One of the best features of Skype is it's firewall-hole-poking shenanigans. I met this chap at a U3 who seemed to understand how that worked (to the extent that he had a product that implemented it)
<exobuzz> popey, please dont find too many bugs ;-)
<exobuzz> samuel_, on that show, they credited the whole WIMP stuff to apple too, ok mac might have been first (only just) on the home machine but it was a xerox invention afaik. amigaos was better ;-)
<exobuzz> but basically all the early gui systems were a take off of xeroxs work. it wasnt mac then the others.
<samuel_> i know, if i had shoes on i would have thrown them at the screen
<exobuzz> lol
<samuel_> i know its the first thing they teach u in computer class
<daubers> exobuzz: Someone at wored helped develop the Xerox gui stuff
<danfish> yeah - fanless dual core atom MB has dispatched - for use in zoneminder box for lower leccie bills :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Building The Kitchen Sink - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/19/building-the-kitchen-sink/
<bigcalm> How do you find out the UUID of an external USB drive?
<bigcalm> And what's the best drive format? It's currently formatted to vfat
<bigcalm> And what's the best drive format? It's currently formatted to vfat
<bigcalm> OOps :)
<shauno> I tend to stick with vfat if it's going to be taken from machine to machine
<bigcalm> Nope, it's staying put
<shauno> I'd use the same fs I you use for the rest of the system then :)
<bigcalm> So it doesn't matter that it's over USB?
<shauno> vfat is still handy because it'll work on linux, windows, osx, with no troubles.  but that's it's sole selling point
<shauno> (and why most drives will be preformatted like that)
<bigcalm> Yup
<bigcalm> Last usb drive I bought was formatted to ntfs though
<bigcalm> Odd
<shauno> I don't think using a real fs would be much slower
<bigcalm> ext4 it is then...
 * daubers wonders when his books will arrive
<MartijnVdS> Nevar!
<daubers> :(
<danfish> bigcalm: sudo blkid
<bigcalm> danfish: just the ticket, thank you :)
<danfish> bigcalm: (from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab)
<exobuzz> daubers, sorry late reply. at your work? cool. who are they ?
<daubers> exobuzz: hmmm?
<exobuzz> <daubers> exobuzz: Someone at wored helped develop the Xerox gui stuff
<daubers> exobuzz: Oh! Chap called Mike Harland
<filo1234> hi guys
<daubers> exobuzz: He really doesn't like Stevey Jobs that much either
<filo1234> is possible to set "ubuntu classic" from terminal? beacause I have a proble with unity in a remote desktop :|
<filo1234> maybe update-alternatives or gconftool...something? I don't have idea where that setting is stred
<filo1234> stored*
<Azelphur> filo1234: what's the problem, compiz+remote desktop uglyness?
<Azelphur> filo1234: you can't really set classic because in order to do it you'd need to get to gdm
<filo1234> Azelphur: nope my desktop is empty
<Azelphur> filo1234: what you could do however, is export DISPLAY=:0; metacity --replace; gnome-panel
<Azelphur> with luck, that's more or less classic :P
<filo1234> Azelphur: I try
<filo1234> Azelphur: but is possible to set classic like default?
<Azelphur> filo1234: yea, you just do it from the login screen
<Azelphur> I don't think you can get to the login screen via VNC though
<filo1234> Azelphur: eh well but I don't have acces at login screen
<Azelphur> exactly
<filo1234> I0m using vino
<filo1234> uhm
<Azelphur> will you ever have access to the login screen?
<filo1234> ah you talking about configuration "login screen"
<Azelphur> no, I'm talking about the actual login screen
<Azelphur> but if you can set the option from there too, cool :D
<filo1234> wait
<filo1234> Azelphur: if i close session vino disconnect me :p
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> that's what I said, that's why I gave you the metacity work around
<Azelphur> :)
<filo1234> Azelphur: I can launch gdmsetup
<filo1234> :p
<Azelphur> heh
<filo1234> pfffff it's locked
<filo1234> I cannot modify
<filo1234> Azelphur: if I remove unity???
<Myrtti> mjahmjah
<Myrtti> checked in for the flight and printed my ticket
<Myrtti> now I just have to hope I'll remember to pack, unpack and pack everything
<Azelphur> filo1234: I told you what to do
<Azelphur> did you try what I suggested?
<filo1234> Azelphur: yes but all is crashed
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<filo1234> metacity doesn't start too
<filo1234> :(
<filo1234> Azelphur: at this point I can try to remove unity
<filo1234> Azelphur: I hope that gnome save me :P
<filo1234> Azelphur: well remote pc doesn't start again argh
<filo1234> test terminated for now :|
<Azelphur> :p
<filo1234> Azelphur: so in another ( virtual ) machine I have unistalled unity and start good with gnome classic
<Azelphur> why uninstall unity? you just select classic desktop from the box :/
<filo1234> therefore this will my next step....when someone wake up and stroke power button
<Azelphur> uninstalling unity uninstalls ubuntu-desktop which breaks your distribution upgrades
<filo1234> Azelphur: yes but I don't have login screen
<Azelphur> why not?
<filo1234> on remote desktop I dont have login screen!
<reaper4334> you can change the settings in the Login Screen menu in System Settings, and it still applies whether or not you use the actual login screen
<filo1234> vino is ready after login
<Azelphur> so go walk to the computer and press the button?
<Azelphur> or do what reaper4334 said
<filo1234> Azelphur: is at 1200 km at distance :p
<filo1234> reaper4334: well
<Azelphur> is this a server?
<filo1234> nope is my brother's desktop
<Azelphur> I see, get your brother to press the button then? :D
<Azelphur> Brotherly love "Hey dude could you press the button for me"
<filo1234> yes but now all sleeping
<Azelphur> ok :p
<filo1234> I'm in Italy
<filo1234> :D
<Azelphur> so yea, still the options me / reaper4334 gave you are the only ones :p
<reaper4334> yeah, because like Azelphur said, if you uninstall Unity altogether your updates will be messed up
<ali1234> there is no problem with removing ubuntu-desktop metapackage
<filo1234> reaper4334: I aÃ¬have just run gdmsettings by terminal but settings is locked
<Azelphur> ali1234: it breaks distribution upgrades
<filo1234> I don't know why
<ali1234> no it doesn't
<Azelphur> filo1234: press the unlock button
<ali1234> not any worse than they are already broken anyway
<Azelphur> lol
<filo1234> Azelphur: -.- lol indeed i just unlock it but it shaped
<Azelphur> ali1234: btw, my supercomputer arrives tomorrow :D
<filo1234> Azelphur: and i have launched it with gksudo
<ali1234> i was thinking about that
<nigelb> AlanBell: ping, around?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-20
<reaper4334> does anyone know any good guides for making decent Conky configurations?
<reaper4334> all the ones I find seem to be guides to getting it running, but not for configuring it
 * popey points reaper4334 at Azelphur 
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> reaper4334: what you after?
<Azelphur> reaper4334: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/Janurary%202011/2011-01-13-041505_3840x1200_scrot.png my conky config :P
<reaper4334> wow!
<popey> Azelphur: got a copy of that somewhere?
<reaper4334> just looking for a way to get a decent setup, like multiple conky windows and showing images and such
<Azelphur> popey: I can upload it, sure
<popey> please
<Azelphur> reaper4334: multiple conky windows you just run conky twice with different config files
<reaper4334> ah I see, so I can just set up a bash script to run it for each config?
<Azelphur> reaper4334: yea
<reaper4334> well that's one down :D
<Azelphur> popey: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/May%202011/conky.zip
<Azelphur> popey: all the resource files and scripts are in there
<reaper4334> how long did it take you to set that up?
<popey> nice one
<Azelphur> couple days
<reaper4334> it's pretty awesome
<Azelphur> ty :D
<Azelphur> I actually started with the one that ships with the overglossed theme
<Azelphur> and just kinda kept adding to it
<Azelphur> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Conky+%5BTheRob%5D?content=74972
<reaper4334> nice one, I managed to get it to run with some of my little scripts, but can't figure out how to display images
 * popey edits the script to replace Azelphur's home directory references...
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> reaper4334: look at http://conky.sourceforge.net/variables.html
<Azelphur> the image variable does that
<exobuzz> xbmc4xbox made it to the slashdot homepage. heh. just wait for the community site to go offline now :)
<reaper4334> Azelphur: Solved it, thanks a lot :D
<reaper4334> well, bedtime for me. Thanks again guys :D. Night
<hamitron> omg
<hamitron> had a website loaded in my browser for days, and it had a window embedded that kept playing different video
<hamitron> used about 10Gb of my download limit
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> I knew there was a reason this addiction to having 50 tabs open was unhealthy.  you found it!  :)
 * ball gives up and goes to bed.
<MartijnVdS> Morning everyone
<diplo> Morning all
<DJones> Good morning, happy Friday
<MartijnVdS> Good Friday to you too :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: You'll love this (being a train person): http://kubus.mailspool.nl/spoorkaart/
<MartijnVdS> popey: Live Dutch train positions :)
<PalaPad> Morning
<PalaPad> MartijnVdS: Am currently on a train :p
<MartijnVdS> PalaPad: Trains are cool :)
<PalaPad> This one is a tad busy commuter train to London
<MartijnVdS> Take turns breathing"
<MartijnVdS> -busy?
<PalaPad> But I will give credit to virgin for their cell boosters, just did a live BBC radio interview without cutting out lol
<MartijnVdS> PalaPad: Is cell coverage really that bad on that side of the water? :)
<PalaPad> Busy yeah, glad I pre booked or I might have been standing in aisle for 2.5 hour journey
<PalaPad> In some places yeah
<MartijnVdS> We get 2 good ones (KPN, Vodafone) and 1 really bad one (T-Mobile) here in .nl
<PalaPad> Specially on a fast train hoping cell tower frequently
<MartijnVdS> guess which one is used by the in-train wifi APs
<PalaPad> Back, sorry lost signal
<PalaPad> I use 3G on train cos the wifi is very slow and very expensive
<awilkins> .. and basically just a 3G hotspot anyway
<PalaPad> I use bouncer for irc otherwise I would be spamming channel with disconnects lol
<PalaPad> And yes awilkins
<PalaPad> But with all of first class getting free wifi it gets very slow once they all connect to the AP
<PalaPad> So I get much better results using cell instead of wifi
<awilkins> Well, first class are getting very very expensive wifi, tea, biscuits, and comfy chairs
<PalaPad> Actually it is pretty cheap if booked a month in advance
<awilkins> Is this on a UK rail network????
<PalaPad> I can to London from the north of England for 30 quid 1st class with advance booking 4-6 weeks
<awilkins> I looked at 1st class season tickets, they were double the cost
<awilkins> Is that an off-peak fare?
<PalaPad> I booked this journey last night standard class and it was more than that
<PalaPad> Yes
<awilkins> Aha
<awilkins> Peak fares are rather more
<awilkins> Peak return from Manchester - London is about Â£180 in cattle class
<PalaPad> 120 from Lancaster where I am
<awilkins> It's just a joke though, isn't it
<awilkins> You could hire a care and drive it for less than that
<awilkins> Including fuel
<awilkins> I used to drive down, park in the suburban edges of the tube network, and tube the rest of the way in
<awilkins> The Northholt Swimerama used to have an excellent free car park open until 1900 - park there, 2 minute walk to tube, bob is your uncle.
<PalaPad> Back got disconnected again sorry
<PalaPad> Yes it is incredibly expensive
<PalaPad> Which is why I can't accept a full time role in London because the cost of travel would be so high
<PalaPad> I was gonna apply for a research director post at Big Brother Watch but they want someone office based in London full time, so I can't do it
<awilkins> I wouldn't mind living in a city again, I suppose, but London is a bit expensive
<awilkins> I quite liked being a student in Manchester
<PalaPad> I don't traveling down once a week and staying a couple of days with a friend, but am not commuting every day
<awilkins> Walked everywhere (I'd probably get a bike, these days, less time to waste)
<PalaPad> This is my second trip to London this week
<PalaPad> 11 hour day for a 2 hour meeting :/
<awilkins> Heh, been there
<awilkins> I just wish online meeting tools were better
<PalaPad> Tuesday was a 10 hour day for a 10 minute tv interview which was worse
<PalaPad> At least I actually have 2 hours work on this trip
<PalaPad> Plus it will be an interesting meeting
<PalaPad> Nominet issue group on domain name suspensions
<MooDoo> hello all
<PalaPad> Hey
<gord> last night my laptop was tracked in "castle donnington, UK" now its in china. what kind of witchcraft is this....
<dwatkins> ooh, autossh works really nicely when I resume my laptop
<dwatkins> GNU screen for the win etc.
<gord> oh geez, there are 379 untriaged unity bugs
<gord> i wanted to code this morning :(
<wintellect> Mornin
<hoover> mornin
<MooDoo> morning
<PalaPad> Dwatkins, yeah I use screen too but the ssh client on my iPad doesn't play nice when I lose cell signal
<danfish> ahoy hoy saveloys! Only 8 hours of this working week left :)
<MooDoo> danfish: awesome :D
<bigcalm> 6.30pm finish?
<PalaPad> Your working week finishes?
<bigcalm> I've secured a 30min early sneak out time of 5.30pm so I can go for a meal
<PalaPad> I need a job like that lol
 * PalaPad works 24/7/365
 * bigcalm doubts that
<PalaPad> Can't remember last time I had a day off, was at least 4 years ago
<PalaPad> I am serious lol
<bigcalm> You don't work in your sleep
<PalaPad> If I get a call when I am asleep I wake up and answer it
<PalaPad> And if it requires further action I get up and deal with it
<PalaPad> And I only sleep an average of 4 hours a day
<bigcalm> You need a new job :P
<PalaPad> Problem is if I get a new job, there is no-one else doing my work in the UK to fill the void
<BigRedS> that's your employers problem, though...
<BigRedS> any sane company would have at least two people doing your job
<dwatkins> PalaPad: hmmm, I have an iPhone and it seems ok, although I don't think there's an autossh on it
<PalaPad> BigRedS I don't get paid, show me someone who is willing to work in law for free and I will gladly job share with them
<PalaPad> Dwatkins, I use iSSH and it doesn't recognise when you lose cell coverage so have to manually restart it
<danfish> bigcalm: yup - working day is 0730 - 1830
<PalaPad> Very annoying
<bigcalm> danfish: ug, poor lad
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<PalaPad> Morning brobostigon ltnt :)
<brobostigon> morning PalaPad :)
<danfish> bigcalm: I do only work 4 days a week, so it's not that bad
<danfish> gives me a day of tinkering and giving myself soldering iron burns :)
<dwatkins> PalaPad: hmmm, that must be annoying
<gord> i miss soldering stuff. maybe i'll go break some wires by "accident"
<brobostigon> :)
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :D
<BigRedS> q!
<BigRedS> gah!
<BigRedS> but happy friday!
<popey> Morning all!
<gord> happy 10:07!
<MartijnVdS> 11:07*
<bigcalm> Morning
<czajkowski> Aloha
<oimon> was locked out of my office today :( lock was broken
<oimon> fortunately my resourceful staff came to the rescue when i discovered the locksmith wouldn't arrive until the afternoon
<kazade> oimon, why a sad face? Surely being unable to do work on a Friday is a good thing? :)
<oimon> my office is my happy place :)
<oimon> it has my crisps and chocolate and stuff
<kazade> I see :)
<oimon> unable to do work while at work is frustrating
<kazade> mmm, crisps..
 * kazade heads to the vending machine
<MartijnVdS> hmm crÃªpes
<oimon> managed to brute force the door
<oimon> however, that's not why i'm here....i logged in via another machine and now i've lost my firefox addons ...how do i know which addons i previously used?
<oimon> oh cool, i found a sqlite manager addon that lets me view my adds.sqlite ..problem sorted :)
<MartijnVdS> Can't sqlite3 can do that? from the command line?
<oimon> perhaps
<bigcalm> To all of the non-belivers, I now have 2 external usb harddrives hooked up to the revo without extra PSUs :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: To see how long it takes before it explodes?
<danfish> non-beliver? Is that someone who doesn't eat bee livers ;)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: very specific form of vegetarianism, that.
<awilkins> They require vitamin A supplements periodically.
 * bigcalm ignores you lot and makes a cuppa tea :P
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Ah, converted the PSU to a kettle, have you?
<danfish> MartijnVdS: nah - he's just harnessing the excess heat the revo is now generating
<bigcalm> It is a little warmer
<diplo> I use 2 x usb drives on my revo all the time
<diplo> never had an issue
<MartijnVdS> danfish: hmm heatpipes :)
<MartijnVdS> Anyone running oneiric yet? Alpha 1 is in 2 weeks... :)
<brobostigon> nope, not yet.
<oimon> i've decided not to upgrade anything until they fix the power problems since 2.6.38
<bigcalm> sudo mv -v /media/exdrive1/Music/* /media/exdrive3/music/
<bigcalm> Humm, wrong keyboard and wrong computer
<daubers> oimon: You may have a while to wait as it's a generic kernel issue :)
<danfish> you are not in the sudoers file. this incident will be reported
<oimon> daubers: OTOH it may get fixed quicker as it's a generic kernel issue
<oimon> i told my boss to sudo make me a sandwich and he told me the inicident would be reported
<DJones> oimon: Insufficient admin rights?
<oimon> there was a xkcd once about who get's those sudo emails...
<MartijnVdS> root does.
<oimon> it's me. and then i forward them to God and Santa
<MartijnVdS> http://xkcd.com/838/
<BigRedS> I want an "I'm a grown up" option in Firefox for less in-the-way SSL warnings...
<oimon> hmm.. something like https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mitm-me/ ?
<BigRedS> iceflatline: yes!
<BigRedS> er
<BigRedS> oimon: yes!
<BigRedS> cheers!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: that's quite a typo o -> i
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: ^
<BigRedS> One day I'll get the hang of checking for an add on before complaining
 * bigcalm tuts
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: haha! :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Unless you pronounce it "oiceflatline" :)
<oimon> and thats why firefox will awlays rule
<oimon> and pidgin > empathy for same reason
<BigRedS> I just didn't hit the o; i<tab>
<turkldx> is there an irc channel for ubuntu help?
<oimon> i heard that empathy doesn't even have plugins
<BigRedS> nah
<BigRedS> empathy reminds me a lot of old gnome
<bigcalm> turkldx: here is as good as any :)
<turkldx> thank you :D
<BigRedS> "I work this way, this is the way I will work"
<bigcalm> Aparently we're one of the more friendly places
<oimon> +1
<turkldx> quick question then...
<oimon> drum roll....
<bigcalm> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<turkldx> is is possible to save the desktop config, I.e  open apps so it starts up wehn logging in
<turkldx> ?
<turkldx> :))
<oimon> turkldx: which version of ubuntu are you running
<oimon> in 10.10 and older, you can do system-preferences-startup applications-options-automatically remember running apps when logging out - tick box
<turkldx> thats brill, thanks guys. i was trying to find the version but couldnt
<davmor2> morning 80's fans......popey you know it's you too :D
<bigcalm> turkldx: to find the version of ubuntu, open a terminal and enter: cat /etc/lsb-release
<turkldx> V10.10 :))
<turkldx> mavrick meerkat
<turkldx> *e
<brobostigon> lsb-release -a     .also works.
<oimon> cat /etc/issue    also
<brobostigon> lsb_release -a     .also works.
<bigcalm> popey: had many 11.10 name pronunciation communications yet?
<brobostigon> _ instedof -
<popey> not enough real ones, no
<awilkins> What was it again, Onanic Ocelot?   ;-)
<popey> !ocelot
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot) will be the fifteenth release of Ubuntu.  Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=646 Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
<TheAshMan> how do i make a directories children group writeable by default?
<oimon> TheAshMan: for all subdirectories ?
<oimon> for per-directory umask settings you need to use ACLs
<TheAshMan> oimon: Yes for all sub-directories and files
<daubers> ooooooooh new office chairs
 * DJones wonders whether it would be cruel to hide his wifes travel sickness pills before she sets out on a 2 hour car ride over the cat & fiddle into derbyshire
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FilePermissions#ACLs
<TheAshMan> ta :)
<dogmatic69> does anyone know how many different strings can be created with binary that is 20 chars long?
<oimon> depends how many characters you are choosing from? A-Z,a-Z? or alhpanumeric?
<dogmatic69> binary being the sha1() of php, 'raw bytes'
<dogmatic69> is it the same as a normal SHA1
<dogmatic69> looks like this... 9iâÂ¡@Ã§	Ã â¹ÃÂÃÃ©Ã Ã¶`Â¶
<gord> you can't create with a SHA-1 - it doesn't work that way, SHA-1 is created from something else of arbitrary length
<MartijnVdS> gord: sure, but whatever you put in, the sha1 is always the same length
<dogmatic69> what?
<dogmatic69> ok, ive figured it out.. sha1 is 160 bits, which is 20 bytes
<dogmatic69> 20 + 8 bits = 160 so there is the same number of options as a normal 'text' sha1
<gord> oh you wondered if there was a difference?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: text sha1 is just the hex representation of those bytes
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> thanks
<MartijnVdS> Easier to work with -- weird bytes don't copy/paste nicely
<oimon> that wasn't your original question btw...which was about permutation theory
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: need it for mcrypt
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<oimon> exactamondo
<oimon> i can answer Y
<oimon> :)
<dogmatic69> oimon: i guess the question was is the binary version rate of collisions the same as the hex
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: yes, because they are the same thing, just written differently
<dogmatic69> :)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: ("2F" for "/", for example: 2 hex digits to represent 1 byte (because 4 hex digit = 4 bits))
<dogmatic69> thanks
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: hexadecimal, you should learn it :)
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> so much learning
<oimon> having an acorn electron forced me to count in hex
<MartijnVdS> I fully intend to never stop learning :)
<dogmatic69> same
<oimon> i wonder if the brain has a save state when you die.
<dogmatic69> gone from windows -> deploying clusters in a year :D
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Unlikely.
<oimon> if we assume there's an afterlife, we must take memories with us, surely
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Sure, but are we assuming that?
<oimon> let's say yes we assume this is the case
<MartijnVdS> (I'd settle for a "High Score - Enter your name" style ending screen ;))
<oimon> MartijnVdS: but who would see it?
<MartijnVdS> I woudl
<MartijnVdS> but I'm too atheist for it :)
<oimon> christianity doesn't say too much about afterlife, but implies that memories are carried forward somehow
<oimon> how can i find out the full list of command lubotu3 understands?
<awilkins> !help  ?
<awilkins> !help
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<awilkins> !commands
<lubotu3> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome), K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE), or Menu -> Accessories -> LXTerminal (LXDE). Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
<awilkins> !stupid bot
<oimon> !bot
<lubotu3> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-uk's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
<DJones> oimon: I don't think there is a complete list, the best bet is probably teh web interface and just search through them
<BigRedS> Temporary drives, should they be mounted at /mnt/<descriptive dir name> or just /mnt ?
<oimon> "Although the use of subdirectories inÂ /mntÂ as a mount point has recently been common, it conflicts with a much older tradition of usingÂ /mntÂ directly as a temporary mount point." http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#MEDIAMOUNTPOINT
<oimon> i think the answer is, "up to you"
<awilkins> ^^ what he said. I tend to use /mnt for that reason
<oimon> i use /mnt/disk1
<BigRedS> Hmm
<awilkins> Usually I let Ubuntu just mount actual disks in /media
<BigRedS> So for once in an argument at work I'm *not* the luddite
<oimon> because i may require to mount .iso files and loop devices
 * BigRedS dances with joy
<awilkins> I only mount things like loop images in /,nt
 * kirrus has been arguing with BigRedS about this for the past 10 minutes
<oimon> redhat seems to use /mnt/devname
<awilkins> And I develop urges to stab people who permanently mount things in /mnt . And stab them even harder when they mount things directly in /
<awilkins>  /backup    (DIEEEE!)
<BigRedS> oh, we have /backup on all our machines :)
<kirrus> It's not permanently mounted, only when we're copying stuff to or from it though
 * awilkins sends PCKT_STAB to BigRedS and kirrus
<BigRedS> hey, I don't make the rules!
 * kirrus passes PCKT_STAB to writer of rsync-backup
<oimon> solaris used to setup stuff in /export/home
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<oimon> /export/home was the physiscal home, and /home was the automount point
<czajkowski> davmor2: bleugh
<oimon> someone has a hangover?
<czajkowski> ~/c
<davmor2> czajkowski: you're still drunk aren't you?
<czajkowski> davmor2: not drinking smartie pants
<davmor2> czajkowski: oh that's what the problem is then, too much blood in you alcohol stream ;)
<oimon> hihihih http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-05-18/
<gord> i missed all the great UDS talks this time :( http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/5651069099/cleaning-up-after-ourselves - everyone should watch
<davmor2> gord: so did I
<davmor2> and I was there
<gord> davmor2, did you see mpt's? that one was great and i missed that
<davmor2> gord: I did see any after MS's monday morning
<gord> davmor2, you fail at UDS :P
<oimon> gord: i was looking at an outdated pages on the wiki for 7.10 today, thinking i'm sure this isn't stil the case?
<davmor2> gord: we were sprinting :P
<davmor2> gord: I liked the byobu talk by dustin
<oimon> wrong data is often worse than no data
<davmor2> gord: I learnt more about what was going on from videos, omgubuntu, planet ubuntu and chats at the party and around the table at breakfast and lunch :)
<daubers> Is it just me, or does firefox not play nice with unity?
<BigRedS> it plays reasonably nice IME
<daubers> Hmmm... might be something weird I've done to the configs somewhere
<BigRedS> I know there's focusing issues
<BigRedS> I've not come across anything else
<gord> daubers, works fine for me
<oimon> Kenyon says. âWe will pre-load well over 10 million PCs with Ubuntu this year and we are more than doubling users every year in India and China.â
<daubers> gord: Must be some upgrade config then
<DJones> I'm glad I'm not this person http://goo.gl/AZ301 Although something doesn't quite look right with the photo
<daubers> DJones: ARGH!
<DJones> daubers: I'm not bothered by heights, but .....
<daubers> DJones: Heights don't bother me, it's the groudns that kill you
<daubers> s/groudns/grounds
<DJones> At least if you fell, you wouldn't complain about it again
<daubers> urgh
<DJones> I think the correct comment is "Ker-Thud"
<daubers> Thuds not a bad game as things go
<daubers> Bit short for my liking, but you cna't have everything :)
<oimon> can I play music through a bluetooth enabled car stereo? i've only tried phone calls (which works)
<daubers> oimon: Ido that through my parrot car kit :) Means I can have spotify in the car
<oimon> daubers: i wonder if it's possible on all bluetooth stereos .
<daubers> oimon: no idea :)
<oimon> cars aren't my strong point :P
<davmor2> Ah run-dmc and areosmith do walk this way
<dogmatic69> davmor2: sounds tricky
<davmor2> dogmatic69: it's tricky but now we talking double dutch with Malcolm McClaren
<dogmatic69> :)
 * DJones passes the dutchie on the left hand side
<oimon> charity door-knockers just started shouting through the door and being aggressive at my wife for asking that they obey the polite request for no cold-callers on our door :(
<MooDoo> oimon: tell them to b***ger off
<oimon> MooDoo: i'm at work..after she closed the door they were shouting and generally being abusive
<diplo> Chuck water out the window at them!!
<oimon> i don't think that's a really helpful way to make an abusive jerk leave your property!
<diplo> Ok, tar :)
<dogmatic69> tell her to shout 'I'm calling ASBO'
<oimon> people don't respect that we ask for no cold callers. what's worse is taht a knock at the door starts doggy barking, then the baby wakes up
<diplo> I think I'm blacklisted with religious people now, not rude but just hate people knocking at my door for stuff like that
<diplo> yeah used to be my issue oimon
<MartijnVdS> oimon: boobytrap the front yard/door
<oimon> if i have a notice, do they really think i will change my mind and say, oh yeah, i'll buy your $product
<kazade> I always wonder, would cold callers get annoyed if I knocked on their door and started preaching something?
<kazade> They probably all have "No cold caller" signs up :p
<oimon> the JWs have got the message now after the dog "escaped" at them
<davmor2> oimon: tell her to simply call the charity and tell them that their callers are being abusive and had she wanted to give she certainly doesn't want to now
<oimon> davmor2: she has done the first biy
<oimon> ironically they were caleld "make a child smile"
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka
<MooDoo> davmor2: alreet geezer
<oimon> agh firefox profile has corrupted and wiped all my settings :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: I reckon wim'll fit in down sowff if we keep practising you know
<MooDoo> davmor2: aye lad, as long as the understan' terms like t'internet and middle oft road ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: hehe
<MooDoo> thank goodness it's friday
<oimon> yeah
<oimon> it's needed
<oimon> weeks seem so long since all those bank hols
<gord> every time i try and launch the disk usage analyser i end up running byobu...
<davmor2> gord: spell it right when you run it from the terminal and you'll get on better when you hit tab :P
<gord> davmor2, i have completely forgotten what the actual program name is, i just type disk into unity
<davmor2> gord: boabob or something like that isn't it
<gord> something like that
<gord> at least i'm not trying to run bonobo from the terminal anymore
<davmor2> boabab infact
 * awilkins keeps having to run palimpsest because Unity has no obvious way of mounting things that's in the gui
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: nautilus?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Doesn't seem to have the same "Removable drives" area that the Places menu has
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, It's an SSD in an eSATA caddy, doesn't automount like USB flash
<awilkins> Ah
<awilkins> It's because I usually have "Tree" selected and not "places"
<MartijnVdS> ah, don't use that ;)
<oimon> top hits on my blog this week: disable global menu in unity
<dogmatic69> oimon: whats your url?
<dogmatic69> found
<MartijnVdS> oimon: aptitude purge appmenu-{gtk,qt} {firefox,thunderbird}-globalmenu
<dogmatic69> slightly quicker than http://www.webupd8.org/2011/03/disable-appmenu-global-menu-in-ubuntu.html
<oimon> it's more a public tomboy note of useful commands :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: done! :)
<oimon> today's natty users are the REAL beta testers ;)
<Azelphur> popey: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110520_150522.jpg
<popey> 404
<Azelphur> WFM
<awilkins> Hmm, I can see it
<awilkins> Tha's a lot of barebones
<Azelphur> indeed
<awilkins> Why 8 of everything but CPUs or are there another row behind?
<Azelphur> another row behind.
<MartijnVdS> Who needs CPUs when you're mining bitcoins with your GPUs ;)
<awilkins> Making a bitcoin mining cluster? Or a gaming cafe?
<Azelphur> bitcoin mining cluster :)
<Azelphur> hense the big graphics cards
<oimon> popey's been quiet today
<popey> been busy
<popey> fixing car
<hamitron> gaming cafe \o/ bitcoin is the excuse
<oimon> i thought you were busy in #linuxformat
 * awilkins wonders if mining bitcoins is worth buying time on EC2 / GPU instances
<popey> pic works now Azelphur
<popey> oimon: only for the last 10 mins
 * Azelphur awaits the incoming "loon"
<hamitron> awilkins: it isn't
<hamitron> costs you about 3/4 times as much as the bitcoin you get
<popey> Azelphur: total price for that lot?
<Azelphur> popey: Â£2000
<awilkins> hamitron, It's not worth the electricity to do it yourself
<hamitron> because nvidia cards are not as good for it
<popey>  _
<popey> | | ___   ___  _ __
<popey> | |/ _ \ / _ \| '_ \
<popey> | | (_) | (_) | | | |
<popey> |_|\___/ \___/|_| |_|
<hamitron> awilkins: it is
<popey>                      
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> :/
<bigcalm> o.O
<hamitron> for now
<awilkins> hamitron, Hmm, only if you think they will still inflate, I suppose
<hamitron> no, at current values
<Azelphur> anyone know where I can get cheap dvi to vga adapters?
<Azelphur> :D
<awilkins> Wouldn't it be easier to just spend Â£2000 on buying bitcoins?
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> maybe, but at least I'm having fun
<oimon> popey: did you blog about the multiboot usb stick?
<oimon> i heard you mention it on uupc
<popey> not yet
<hamitron> awilkins: buying bitcoins would be for someone very confident in it
<oimon> i can wait :)
<popey> heh
<awilkins> It can't be a bitcoing mining cluster, you wouldn't need 8 mobos
<awilkins> Just a few with lots of PCI-E slots
<oimon> oh...http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/easily-create-a-multiboot-usb-stick/
<Azelphur> awilkins: I opted for cheap boards, the cards block eachothers exhausts if you use one board
<oimon> hmm not sure i want live sticks, but OS installed to usb
<Azelphur> then you end up doing something like this miner, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-19-014621_771x443_scrot.png
<hamitron> Azelphur: I told you to get dual channel memory packs
<hamitron> and spilt them
<hamitron> "told"
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: this was cheaper and it makes no difference?
<hamitron> I'd of got half the ram
<hamitron> = cheaper
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> my next bitcoin box to fire up only has 256Mb ram
<hamitron> Â¬Â¬
<gord> couldn't you guys spend this time helping out on those cancer fighting things maybe?
<MartijnVdS> folding?
<oimon> hamitron: how many bitcoins do you own?
<gord> there are a lot of them
<hamitron> gord: my cpu is used for stuff on boinc
 * MartijnVdS owns 0.02
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> erm
<hamitron> less than 1
<hamitron> ;)
<gord> hamitron, i was thinking the gpu stuff
 * awilkins has a bitcoin folder in his home but doesn't know how many coins it has in it
<oimon> coming in here makes me feel better about my sad life
<awilkins> Run the GPU mining thing for a while but it makes the desktop really really sluggish
<oimon> i might spend ages trying to get things working and never using the results , but at least i'm not mining bitcoins :)
<hamitron> gord: I gotta pay fo the electric bill
<gord> you gonna pay it with bitcoins? ;)
<hamitron> shall i ask npower?
<gord> seems like a nasty circle ;)
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> "do you accept bitcoin?"
<oimon> it seems easier to travel the streets picking up pennies than mining bitcoins
<awilkins> No, he pays for the pictures of goats in compromising positions with bitcoins, and uses the money he saved to pay the electric bill
<oimon> i hear begging is lucrative
<gord> every six months or so i try out BOINC again, but then i stop it again, it just can't play nice with me
<hamitron> bitcoining isn't exactly good for the environment
<hamitron> that is the only bad thing I can see about it
 * awilkins wouldn't mind a concrete way of contributing to any of the following ; fusion research, nanotech assembler research, AI research
 * hamitron uses his cpu productively to search for little green men
<hamitron> ;)
<awilkins> Realistically, I don't have the machine tools for fusion research, the smarts for AI research, or the chemistry degree for nanotech
<oimon> i thought SETI had closed down?
<hamitron> I haven't done it for a while
<hamitron> but I think there are still units to work on, last I checked
<hamitron> just stopped recording signals
<awilkins> I started running folding@home and stopped doing SETI@home
<hamitron> my other projects are/were climate prediction and something to do with proteins
<awilkins> Proteins thing was the folding@home probably
<hamitron> maybe, yeh
<awilkins> I think the climate thing was sponsored by the BBC, ran that for a while
<hamitron> I've never done gpu stuff on it
<oimon> i had a work colleague who was into WoW : he paid some chinese slaves to mine gold for him
<MartijnVdS> there's still the RC5-72 thing
<hamitron> too much heat
<MartijnVdS> (+ related)
<hamitron> :)
<awilkins> No, I've not run a contributory-computing project in ages
<oimon> did amazon shut down their metalturk thing?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: no: https://www.mturk.com/mturk/welcome
<awilkins> https://www.mturk.com/mturk/welcome
<oimon> i was thinking they should just pipe the requests into #ubuntu-uk
 * awilkins was pit to the draw
<awilkins> I had a look at it... it just seemed like slavery to me
<oimon> write a 500 word article (i.e. my homework) for $4
<awilkins> The absolute highest job on their right now is $14.79 for transcribing a 29 minute audio tape
<awilkins> ANd only 2 other jobs at $10 or above
<awilkins> Hah, 6 jobs at $5
<awilkins> or above
<oimon> time alloted 4 hrs 30 : reward $1.27
<awilkins> 500 words for $5.13 PLUS a !! 79 cent bonus
<awilkins> OOooh
<jpds> awilkins: 79 cents is what, 2p?
<oimon> i've just sen the course material for ITIL ...i want to die
<shauno> assume Azelphur's planning on the world ending before his creditcard bill arrives :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: or at least that part of the world where his credit card info is stored :)
<DJones> popey: Mumbuntu http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/40033/ubuntu-1104-canonical-interview-linux
<Azelphur> indeed, we're all gonna die in 2012 anyway so yay :P
<awilkins> That's why he's working so hard to transfer his fiat currency into bitcoins
<shauno> does look interesting, but the leccy bill would terrify me :/
<oimon> time to try meego 1.2 on my eee pc
<shauno> kinda curious why the bitcoin client connects to freenode?
<MartijnVdS> it uses irc to connect to other bitcoin clients
<MartijnVdS> to find blocks it doesn't yet have
<gord> ugh irc? really?
<MartijnVdS> yarly
<shauno> that's a little awkward.  especially using a network that you're already using.  a lot of servers don't like you having multiple connections
<MartijnVdS> you can configure the clients to all connect though a central one
<MartijnVdS> so they don't all open irc connections
<MartijnVdS> check the bitcoin wiki for info
<shauno> I'm not a bitcoin client tho :)
<MartijnVdS> yet
<gord> it just sounds like its abusing irc servers to me
<MartijnVdS> tell the devs
<gord> imagine if all the bittorrent clients in the world connected to freenode
<oimon> kaboom
<shauno> imagine if freenode found a way to slightly interfere for their next donation drive ;)
<oimon> WOO meego works on my non-atom eee :)
<ali1234> 1.2?
<ali1234> you are lucky
<ali1234> it will probably crash at an unusual time
<oimon> :(
<ali1234> what cpu do you have?
<oimon> party pooper
<ali1234> celeron?
<oimon> eee 701
<oimon> yeah
<ali1234> yeah that doesn't have ssse4 so...
<ali1234> i did an analysis of an old meego version and ssse4 instructions only appear in glibc and qt
<ali1234> but obviously those are quite important
<oimon> it didn't use to boot so this is the first time i saw it working :)
<ali1234> when you get sigill this will be why
<oimon> chromium isn't running
<oimon> lol
<oimon> that excitement was short lived
<ali1234> yeah i bet that is heavily optimized
<ali1234> i didn't analyse nonfree
<oimon> ali1234: how do i run a terminal?
<ali1234> depends what ux you are using
<oimon> ah fouind it
<oimon> it's a sweet ui
<oimon> shame it won't work on my eee then
<oimon> ali1234: running chromium-browser -g for debugging gives SIGILL :(
<ali1234> yeah there you go
<oimon> :'(
 * oimon wonders what else he could run on the eee
<oimon> android-x86 needs touch screen really
<popey> oimon: i have crunchbang on my eee 900
<popey> but then I never ever boot it up, so dont actually use it
<oimon> popey: lol. i found it a bit fiddly
<oimon> gingerbread x86 is out so will try that
<oimon> when i actually need it i use ubuntu. although elementary OS was nice on it, waiting for v0.2
<popey> honeycomb might be interesting
<oimon> ah poo, i got mixed up
<oimon> i wish they would use version umber
<oimon> 2.3 isn't much over 2.2
 * MartijnVdS is waiting for his Xoom
<oimon> Â£Â£
<oimon> â¬â¬
<oimon> the locksmith never arrived to let me get into my office at work...luckily we barged the door open at 10am and didn't tell anyone
<PalaPad> Yay managed to jump an earlier train leaving for home sooooooon :)
<PalaPad> Get home an hour earlier than expected
<PalaPad> Was another good meeting today, wish all policy meetings I attend were as mature and intelligent as the Nominet ones
<oimon> 2.3 is feeling fast
<awilkins> I would have spent an hour trying to pick the lock
<awilkins> (just for the fun of it)
<Azelphur> took this test, http://aq.server8.org/ scored 47/50 haha
<Azelphur> the autism in me, it is clearly strong \o/
<Azelphur> it diagnosed me right though, said I have aspergers syndrome, which I do xD
<awilkins> 34
<awilkins> How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?
<Azelphur> awilkins: 21
<awilkins> I think my score would have been higher when I was 20, as opposed to now when I@m 37
<dwatkins> I should probably do the test also.
 * dwatkins is 34
<awilkins> A lot of the questions I found myself thinking "Well, I _can_ guage people like that ... but I don't do it instinctively, I do it intellectually"
<Azelphur> awilkins: I can manage social situations reasonably well, but everything social has to be done intellectually
<Azelphur> I had to "re-learn" pretty much everything
<brobostigon> Azelphur: 41.
<brobostigon> 41 out of 50, is pretty high.
<Azelphur> :)
<MartijnVdS> 31
<awilkins> I would probably have got a higher score... but I do prefer the theatre to the museum, because I've seen all the museums I'd be interested in...
<awilkins> And doing things the same way all the time is boring...
<awilkins> And I do like to meet new people, as long as they are interesting ones (like you get at geeky socials)
<awilkins> But I totally hate "standard" social gatherings
<awilkins> So it probably under-scored me because I wasn't answering some of the questions in line with expectations... and I'm now arguing that I should have a higher score for being socially dysfunctional, which pretty much makes me a giant nerd and proud of it...
<awilkins> Which probably describes most of the people in here
<brobostigon> awilkins: the social dysfunction you experience, is a different kind of social inabilty, than within autism. iwould say, from personal experience.
<shauno> heh, 44, but I don't consider myself autistic
 * awilkins is definitely not autistic but his paediatrician / wife suspects he's Aspergic
<kazade> I only got 23
<kazade> what is this thing testing exactly?
<awilkins> What are you, some kind of girl?
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> kazade: how much like Azelphur you are, apparently ;) he's scored the highest
<Azelphur> nobody will beat my 47 >:)
<awilkins> Well, I could, but not by answering honestly
<shauno> I think knowing what they're looking for taints it quite heavily
<awilkins> Yup. And also knowing how to answer because you have a medical degree (or even a basic knowledge of pop-psychology)
<kazade> I'm pretty sure if I made out that I'm not a manipulative bastard... I'd score higher
<kazade> if you can read people, it makes the score go down
<Azelphur> lol
<shauno> manipulating the test into thinking you're not manipulative?  ;)
<kazade> heh, indeed
<awilkins> It doesn't account for genuine empathy versus the ability to read social cues without empathy
<kazade> awilkins, that's a good point
<Azelphur> indeed :p
<MartijnVdS> Does that matter though? If the effect is the same.. :)
<awilkins> Well, I think the former is something that you develop earlier on and the latter has to be learned
<shauno> if you're investigating the effects, probably not.  if you're after the cause, then sure it matters
<kazade> MartijnVdS, you could be completely analytical at reading people and that would show up as empathy in this test
<awilkins> Which is why I think I got a lower score than I would have done 20 years ago
<Azelphur> yea, I answered the questions ignoring my analytical stuff I've developed over the years
<shauno> I've discovered it's easier to talk to my isp on twitter than on the phone.  I'm fairly sure that's a bad sign
<awilkins> Naah, that's true of nearly everything I find
<kazade> I think if I'd taken that test at 18, it'd be in the high 40s
<Azelphur> haha, I avoid phone calls like the plague
<Azelphur> I usually get my brother/mum to make them for me, I really hate phone calls :(
<awilkins> I can't order takeaway on the phone - noone understands my received-pronunciation accent up north...
 * brobostigon is quite emotional, but most people think he behaves quite logically, and totally illogiclly, even when i think i am emotional.
<kazade> Azelphur, +1
<awilkins> And I hate making the call too
<kazade> I used to do anything to avoid phoning someone
<Azelphur> hehe, I don't answer the house phone either
<awilkins> Which is why the stereotype of geeks ordering pizza via the web is so pervasive.
<Azelphur> lol
<shauno> phone calls are a large part of my day job :/  but I prefer written conversations for support, because you can take a few minutes to find the right answer, rather than feeling compelled to give them something *now* just to fill the awkward silence
<awilkins> There's no point me answering the phone when my wife is in. 90% of the time it's her mother, for her
<awilkins> Yup, hate it when people ask questions in voice calls that you know will take several minutes research to answer correctly.
<MartijnVdS> also, you have your own phone now ;)
<brobostigon> i also hate telephone calls, nothing beats talking to another logical person/creature in real life.
<kazade> HOMETIME!
<kazade> bring on the Rapture :p
<kazade> have a good weekend all
<brobostigon> bye kazade o/
<shauno> we work on a system where data's only posted every 10-15 minutes.  makes for some gutwrenching calls, because they make a change, and then you have to wait up to 15 minutes for them to be reflected
 * awilkins puts a VU meter up just so he can bask in the glory of having fixed a kernel bug that makes his microphone work again
<MartijnVdS> you  fix your own kernel bugs?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Only the second one in 10 years
<shauno> so you end up with management's desire for "first call resolution" as a metric, vs some really, really awkward calls
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, And the first one was pretty trivial - bunch of IR remote keycodes in a table
 * MartijnVdS has teh cool: http://i.imgur.com/QGoJB.jpg
<awilkins> Are they meant to habve wool for hair?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: http://www.discogs.com/artist/Headless+Heroes
<awilkins> Hmm, wall mounted album covers. Nice
<shauno> cardboard cutouts for friends?  martijn scores 51/50!
<awilkins> Oh, table. Foiled by perspective
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yes, table :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: 8-)
<awilkins> They would make quite nice wall art though
<MartijnVdS> they would, yes
<MartijnVdS> lots of record covers would
 * awilkins is inspired to put on loud PJ
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: try Headless Heroes -- they're on U1MS (and on youtube, if you want it for free)
<shauno> rx/tx power levels on a cable modem .. anyone have any pointers how to enterpret the values?
<MartijnVdS> probably dB?
<shauno> yeah, they'd dBmV
<MartijnVdS> (dBm
<shauno> but no indication of whether big numbers are better, etc
<MartijnVdS> mV.. hmm
<MartijnVdS> bigger numbers = it's screaming louder :)
<awilkins> deibelmillivolts
<MartijnVdS> unless it's signal-to-noise ratio
<shauno> my receive level bounces between -6 and -7, and I've no idea if that's a good thing or a bad thing :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBm
<shauno> and ntl are more interested in when I last rebooted my computer :/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that contains a table
<awilkins> shauno, I think the signal/noise ratio is the most important
<MartijnVdS> it is
<shauno> it doesn't tell me that :/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: what DOES it tell you?
<awilkins> shauno, Mine is 39.2 for reference, and I have a good connection. (downstream power -6.4dBmV)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: 39.2 is a lot
<shauno> MartijnVdS: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20shot%202011-05-20%20at%2017.39.58.png
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, I live in the original NTL CM trial area, I think the wires here are good because they were trying hard
<MartijnVdS> I get 6dB down, 8dB up (SNR) on my ADSL
 * awilkins has cable, apples, oranges
<MartijnVdS> I don't know cable
<awilkins> Neither do I
<shauno> that's all I can get out of it.  the rest of the pages tell me "This feature has not been enabled in your cable modem.", and the mffr's password doesn't seem to get me anywhere :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's seeing a signal -- it's _something_ :)
<awilkins> Cool, for some reason I have 1Mbit/s upstream now
<shauno> yeah.  it wasn't 30 minutes ago :)
<awilkins> I'd noticed, but the modem confirms it
<shauno> as far as I can tell, -7 coming in is rather 'quiet', and 60 going out means it's having to yell rather loud to reach the other end
<awilkins> My upstream is 39.0 dBmV
<awilkins> My down is -6.5
<shauno> hm.  I had -6 yesterday, -7 today :/
<shauno> starting to think I should get off my rear and try hooking it up to different outlets to see if we just have dodgy cabling
<awilkins> The last I had trouble, the engineer put a new attenuator on and that fixed it
<shauno> we have 4 outlets for cable, which is kinda convenient.  but also a bad sign, because they tend to be wired up by regular sparkies who really aren't used to RF
<awilkins> The old one was oblong, he said it was a museum piece
<awilkins> The other spate of trouble was because the local router was totally overwhelmed by torrenting gits
<shauno> yours or theirs?
<awilkins> Theirs
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: stop torrenting then
<awilkins> Was obv. short on RAM or CPU because it was returning ping times of 150ms + and download speeds of a few KB
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: http://www.bufferbloat.net/
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Maybe so... it was fine for a while, but now it's a bit slow in the evening
<awilkins> More total bandwidth than latency though
<shauno> mine gets better overnight (but tends to disconnect between midnight and 1am)
<awilkins> It helped a lot when they started their 50Mbit/s tier on DOCSIS 3 hardware
<awilkins> All the torrenting gits moved to that
<awilkins> Now I fear there is a new groundswell of torrenting gits on the lower tiers as the general public catch on
<shauno> I don't actually know that many people that are into that kinda thing
<shauno> besides work, which is kinda nerd-heavy
<awilkins> Maybe it's people streaming telly then...
<MartijnVdS> DVB-T interfering with the cable signal?
<awilkins> Streaming via IP
<MartijnVdS> yes I know
<shauno> got some friends in the US, downloaded one movie, one time. got a letter from their isp asking them not to do that again, and just about <expletive> bricks
<awilkins> I like DVB-T, I don't have to stream shows at the networks mercy
<awilkins> Just record them
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I have -T and -S2 here :)
<MartijnVdS> too bad there's a driver bug for my S2 card so tuning fails 75% of the time
<shauno> I totally dig iplayer.  whenever I get bored at work, get_iplayer's usually dropped something new into my dropbox for me :)
<awilkins> I find -T to be adequate for my needs - three tuners and a TB of disk space and really, there's enough on to keep one occupied in dull moments
<awilkins> The wifelet loves MythTV, refers to it as my greatest gift to her. Besides, you know, marriage and child.
<shauno> I find dropbox is a pretty winning combination for it, because if it's there, it's already local & available.  if it's not there yet, I don't know any better so no harm
<awilkins> Won't let me upgrade it because she's become attached to the theme I have on right now... which isn't available in anything past Karmic...
 * livingdaylight is listening to Strobe by deadmau5 
<awilkins> I think work would take a dim view of me doing that
<MartijnVdS> get better work :)
<awilkins> We have to suffer a mere 30Mbit/s each way for the whole of the NHS <---> Greater internet  gateway
<shauno> I can pretty much get away with murder as long as my response times are low
<awilkins> You Dutch people have multi-megabit connections in the toilet, for heaven's sakes
<shauno> dualhead & headphones means I don't miss a thing.  so watching tv works better than zoning out
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Only because my utility closet is next to my water closet ;)
<awilkins> "I'm just going to the bathroom for a major download, hurr hurr"
<brobostigon> lol:)
<livingdaylight> i am completely addicted to chocolate
<awilkins> http://www.lewhif.com/
<livingdaylight> breathable chocolate, lol
<MartijnVdS> don't tell Myrtti
<fujisan> hi
<fujisan> oh wow even pippa is here
<MartijnVdS> itym popey?
<shauno> who'd be surprised that popey's here?
<ikonia> fujisan: it would be helpful if you could leave this channel also
<fujisan> ikonia why exactly?
<fujisan> i have been chatting here for quite a while
<dutchie> is anyone still running 10.10 here that can try and reproduce a bug for me?
<ikonia> fujisan: because of the reasons I explained to you the other day, you're behaviour in the ubuntu channels has gotten you banned from pretty much every channel, you only join to try to provoke something, you are in other non-official ubuntu channels that better suit your requirements, I'd suggest you use them
<shauno> only 10.04 here
<fujisan> ikonia thanks for the suggestion but you are talking about my past i changed in the meantime like i explained before
<fujisan> that's all i am going to say about this
<ikonia> fujisan: that changes nothing, you've said you've changed MANY times before,
<fujisan> end of discussion
<fujisan> thanks :)
<ikonia> I'll inform the operators of this channel about the situation
<fujisan> stop the ad hominems please ikonia
<fujisan> really uncalled for
<ikonia> sorry what ?
<Azelphur> !drama
<Azelphur> aww, he doesn't know anything about drama :(
<AlanBell> yeah, lets put this conversation on hold for a sec
<Azelphur> the poor bot clearly hasn't been on IRC that long
<highvoltage> poor bot
<AlanBell> fujisan: can you join #ubuntu-irc please
<fujisan> okay
<awilkins> dutchie, I still have 10.10
<dutchie> awilkins: do you have compiz on?
<awilkins> dutchie, I'll have to boot it
<awilkins> It's on another machine
<dutchie> oh, not that bothered then
<awilkins> Hokay
<shauno> well, this good spookily quiet.  time for some civ5 instead I think
 * Laney clangs some pots
 * MartijnVdS wakes up
<jacobw> i have a question for the house..
<jacobw> to put chocolate in chilli or not?
<jacobw> chilli con carne that is, before any pedants attack :p
<MartijnVdS> chilli con chocolate
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> Please try and notify us of the results :)
<MartijnVdS> (you can always call a pizza)
<jacobw> haha
<jacobw> some people do it and others don't
<SpudULike> Dark chocolate, obviously. Darker the better I suspect.
<shauno> I can't imagine chocolate ever being the wrong answer; but I'm a terrible cook
<SpudULike> Though Mint Aero might just work ;-)
<jacobw> i'm definately putting mint aero in my next chilli now :D
<SpudULike> Humble gwibber user has a question. Is there anyway to control the scrollback buffer size to a set amount, either of message count, or age?
<mgdm> jacobw: I've heard it said that dark chocolate is excellent in chilli, not tried myself though
<danfish> I remember hearing about an app to create mockups of UI's but can't for the life of me remember the name - any ideas?
<jacobw> glade?
<MartijnVdS> has gwibber stopped crashing yet?
<mgdm> danfish: glade can make mockups and then you can use the mockup /as/ the UI :)
<danfish> mgdm jacobw - I don't think that was it, but if glade will do mockups then I'll give it a go. tx
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: in gwibber-dailies, yes. here certainly.
<czajkowski> I HATE_MRIs
<mgdm> danfish: they won't be mockups, they'll be real buttons and stuff, just not wired up to anything - I've used it for mockups in the past and then used GtkBuilder to wire it up to a real app
<czajkowski> danfish: if I register with a gp in my local area and move,. do I really have to give that gp up and find a new one ???
 * awilkins finds it quicker to do UI mockups in real toolkits rather than drawing tools with GUI template sets
<danfish> mgdm awilkins - that's probably a good approach
<popey> PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIZZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
<awilkins> Chiiiiiicken
<danfish> czajkowski: depends a bit - will you still be in their catchment area?
<czajkowski> danfish: nope
<Azelphur> Noooooooooothiiiiiiiiiing :-(
<czajkowski> danfish: but I've found a damn good dr.
<brobostigon> margherita, :)
<Azelphur> oh wait, biscuits.
<Azelphur> biiiiiiiiiiiiiiscccuiiiiiiiiiiiiiits
<czajkowski> who's been really good and patient and listened to me and been good and getting me treatment fast
 * awilkins was tempted by bottled mojitos in supermarket, but did not succumb
<danfish> czajkowski: the alternative (but I didn't tell you this) is to not tell them you've moved and setup a mail redirect
<czajkowski> danfish: ohh ok
<danfish> I think a mail redirect costs about Â£8 per month and can be done online
<czajkowski> danfish: to be fair my gp knows I'm moving which is why she got my MRI done in 2 weeks and is trying to get the results by next friday for me to figure out wtf Ive done
<czajkowski> danfish: thanks
<danfish> moving far?
<czajkowski> danfish: London
<czajkowski> she's a damn good gp
<czajkowski> and I'm really comfortable with her
<czajkowski> and she listens when I tell her why I need certain meds and doesnt freak out like the receptionist did when I asked for a repeat precription after only getting it less than 3 weeks ago
<danfish> czajkowski: quick PM?
<czajkowski> sure
<Azelphur> I'm trying to do this, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DisklessUbuntuHowto I'm on the Creating your NFS Installation, part 3 Copy OS files to the server
<Azelphur> but it just spams failed to preserve ownership for <file>: Invalid argument
<Azelphur> does nfs even preserve permissions?
<shauno> it should do, altho it can treat root oddly
<Azelphur> shauno: for me it's just throwing that error and setting all the user/groups to 4294967294
<shauno> are any of the squash options set in /etc/exports on the server?
<Azelphur> shauno: it's got no_root_squash
<Azelphur> the full line is /nfsroot 192.168.1.80(rw,no_root_squash,async,insecure)
<shauno> perms should work then :/  (assuming /nfsroot is on a filesystem that can handle them)
<Azelphur> shauno: yea, server and client are both ubuntu server with ext4
<Azelphur> shauno: some word on ubuntu forums that it might be because I used drive encryption
<Azelphur> but then again it's failing on stuff outside /home, too
<shauno> never tried that, so no idea what impact it'd have :/
<Azelphur> I doubt the OS will work with all the permissions srcewed up :/
<Azelphur> so I guess I have to start again without drive encryption \o/
<hamitron> Azelphur: you could tar the filesystem
<Azelphur> nah, the nodes will need sane write access too
<Azelphur> the permissions need to work
<hamitron> true
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> UK is nice, too bad I have to leave so soon.
<Azelphur> hamitron: haha, the permissions on the server are set correct
<Azelphur> but on the client it's all messed up
<daubers> Evening
<brobostigon> noswaith dda daubers
<daubers> La la la la la la
<Azelphur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_end_times_prediction
<Azelphur> 2 hours till doomsday xD
<jacobw> I can't wait :D
<Azelphur> indeed, fun fun
<jacobw> we'd be a good after the rapture task force, i think most of ubuntu-uk are heathens
<jacobw> after the rapture tech support :P
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> yea, they can't kill us, they need us to fix their computers. :)
<AlanBell> so we would be safe from the zombie apocalypse?
<Azelphur> in theory
<shauno> zombies use computers?
<Azelphur> anyone wanna help me with netboot? I'm getting this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-20-220803_720x446_scrot.png :(
<shauno> got a feeling this compute cluster is going to be very educational for you :)
<shauno> (no use here tho)
<Azelphur> yea, it is :)
<Azelphur> I've almost completed the guide, it should be perfect
<Azelphur> I assume I've done something wrong in the tftpd setup, this guide is really outdated
<shauno> I'd be tempted to use it as a playground for puppet & openstack, just to get the buzzword quota up :)
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> shauno: I dunno, Supercomputer is a pretty big buzz word :p
<shauno> was looking around earlier tho.  seems you got quite a deal on the components.  I couldn't find 8 comparable video cards for 2000 eur, let alone the whole pile
<Azelphur> yea, I pushed for a good deal
<Azelphur> haha, solved one problem I think, the pxelinux config format changed
 * daubers wonders if planet software is inherently broken
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> it is subject to breakage by the feed contents
<ali1234> hmm so the alternate cd no longer gives you a choice of what to install?
<AlanBell> anyone tried the oem-config stuff in Natty?
<ali1234> does the netboot cd still ask?
<daubers> AlanBell: More in the fact that it polls, rather than is notified of events
<AlanBell> well RSS is inherently broken then
<gord> ali1234, no more netbook edition
<ali1234> gord: i said netboot not netbook
<ali1234> as in minimal.iso
<AlanBell> ali1234: what choices are you looking for?
<ali1234> AlanBell: mythtv-backend, openssh-server, xorg-server, none of the following: gnome, kde, xfce
<gord> ah sorry, my mistake
<ali1234> the alternate cd used to offer all these choices
<popey> expert mode?
<popey> that usually gives every option
<ali1234> how do i expert mode?
<popey> and lets you pick the ones its configured to skip
<popey> choose it at the boot menu
<popey> it's an "extra" option iirc
<popey> memory is vauge, but it's certainly an option
<popey> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/AlternateExpert
<popey> f6 option
<ali1234> but given that that section of the menu is completely gone is expert mode actually going to help?
<popey> well non-expert does skip some menus entirely
<ali1234> i'll try it in a minute anyway
<popey> where expert lets you see them
<popey> but i haven't used alternate recently, you may be right, they may well have removed it entirely
<popey> step 66 on that page might be it
<ali1234> maybe i'm thinking of the server cd
<ali1234> the one that no longer exists at all?
<popey> maybe
<popey> it doesn't?
<ali1234> yes
<popey> http://en.releases.ubuntu.com/11.04/ubuntu-11.04-server-amd64.iso
<popey> wossat then?
<ali1234> i dunno
<popey> thats the server cd
<popey> âº
<popey> and bed
<popey> nn
<shauno> that list isn't particularly tied to the image you use.  you can just as easily fire off tasksel after it's booted
<AlanBell> ali1234: is the oem config option still there on the alternate cd?
<ali1234> i don't know, i;ve never heard of or seen oem config option
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> it basically resets everything and deletes your user after you install it so on first boot it asks your name and timezone
<AlanBell> there is an oem-config package, not sure how well maintained it is, I last used it in Hardy
<AlanBell> !info oem-config
<lubotu3> oem-config (source: ubiquity): Perform end-user configuration after initial OEM installation. In component main, is extra. Version 2.6.10 (natty), package size 13 kB, installed size 288 kB
<AlanBell> so you install it, add extra packages and mess things about, then reset it with oem-config-prepare then clone the disk image
<ali1234> keyboard setup on alternate cd doesn't work :(
<Azelphur> what's the package to install if I just want X on Ubuntu?
<Azelphur> (No DM, no WM, nothing, just X.)
<ali1234> xorg-server probably
<Azelphur> fun :P
<ali1234> will tell you in a minute when i figure it out
<Azelphur> no such package haha
<Azelphur> that works :D
<ali1234> look at dependencies of fglrx package for clues :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: hehe
<gord> xserver-xorg isn't it?
<Azelphur> yea, I just installed fglrx and let it grab dependencies
<Azelphur> cheating \o/
<gord> idoes that not bring in gtk or something?
<gord> i guess if your being lazy you don't care :)
<AlanBell> I would install xeyes
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-21
<AlanBell> gosh, it is tomorrow already
<shauno> the end is nigh ;)
<gord> back in the early days of unity i had to stress test something or other, but basically it involved opening xeyes fullscreen on my netbook for a few seconds, closing it and repeating. automated of course. still, very freaky after a few hours
<AlanBell> gord: someone should have done an xeyes version of the mdz picture
<shauno> ugh.  a friend's had their wordpress hacked & asking for advise.  not sure what to tell them past "nuke the site from orbit"
<AlanBell> ideally export the content, reinstall from bare metal and reimport and keep the thing updated
<shauno> it's pretty sneaky.  the site looks fine, unless you visit with googlebot's user-agent
<AlanBell> otherwise backup, wipe, install latest version, restore the config file with the database passwords and the wp-content directory, having checked it for uploaded stuff
<AlanBell> yeah, then full of links?
<shauno> yeah.  appears as a blog dedicated to canadian viagra if you're google
<shauno> quite successfully too.  it's the top google result for her name + viagra  lol
<AlanBell> that is probably cleanable
<Azelphur> shauno: got it working, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-20-234911_1461x476_scrot.png :)
<shauno> nice :)
<shauno> so you're gonna take over the world while everyone's busy watching the rapture?
<Azelphur> something like that, I forgot we are supposed to be dead now
<Azelphur> I'm alive, yay.
<shauno> I should head to bed, but I'm poised ready to invade china :/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Rocking The LoCo Community In Oneiric - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/20/rocking-the-loco-community-in-oneiric/
<Azelphur> haha
<Laney> jono is being rather prolific on the ol' blogosphere lately
<AlanBell> hmm, so the plan for 200,000,000 users is organic growth done by the loco teams
<Laney> 200,000,000.
<Laney> 835 members of ~ubuntu-uk
<Laney> that's... 239,520.958 each!
<Azelphur> haha
<AlanBell> ~locoteams 18353 members worldwide
<Laney> 10,897.401 â that's more like it
<AlanBell> yeah, we can do that
<AlanBell> night all
<Laney> let's work this out
<Laney> 2.95192682% of the world's population (as of 2009)
<Laney> applied to the uk's population, that's 18,254.1705
<Laney> which is only 21.86 each!
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> Laney: it's almost like that time the RIAA sued limewire for a little under the collective wealth of the planet
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] Automating APOD - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/05/20/automating-apod/
<shauno> discovered I turn into a stereotypical american when I play civ  :/  so close to a cultural victory, but I don't want to waste all the nukes I made ..
<ging> so you secretly sold some off to some 3rd world bananna republics ?
<ali1234> ati cards still suck on linux :(
<ali1234> hdmi output doesn't work properly with fglrx
<ali1234> everything is all flickery on vga
<shauno> this I never understood.  half of you say ati cards suck, the other half say nvidia suck.  so we're stuck with intel integrated?
<ging> no because everyone says intel suck
<MartijnVdS> ging: no, intel rocks
<MartijnVdS> Intel and ATi are the best choices atm, as both have well-supported Free drivers
<ging> well how come my old pc could never come out of suspend mode?
<MartijnVdS> there you have it: old.
<MartijnVdS> I haven't had problems with suspend (and/or Intel) since about hardy-ish
<shauno> I haven't had a problem with suspend since I quit using linux on laptops  *duck*
<MartijnVdS> shauno: 8-)
<shauno> * Looking up localhost:10002
<shauno> * Unknown host. Maybe you misspelled it?
<shauno> *sigh*
<MartijnVdS> messed up your /etc/hosts?
<shauno> nope.  stupid client is just stupid
<MartijnVdS> aren't clients always like that
<MartijnVdS> oh wait that's customers
<shauno> (irc client;)
<shauno> thought I'd be clever and forward to irssi-proxy over ssh tunnels
<shauno> turns out gui irc clients all blow chunks
<MartijnVdS> ORLY
<shauno> yarly.
<popey> Someone has asked me to put Ubuntu on their computer for general surfing and such
<popey> pondering what version to give them
<popey> intel 945, 2GB RAM
<popey> was thinking 10.04 but actually Unity should work fine on this
<popey> 60GB disk
<shauno> I'd be tempted to try it too.  It's going to be completely unfamiliar to them anyway
<popey> yeah, that's what I'm thinking
<shauno> why make them learn 'the old way' just to be yanked onto 'the new way' at some indeterminate point in the future
<popey> I should make some notes about this.
<AlanBell> 11.04 and then try out unity, unity-2d, classic gnome
<popey> I suspect unity3d will work fine on this
<popey> its a dell inspiron 6400
<AlanBell> yeah, should be fine
<shauno> it'd be interesting to see how someone actually reacts to unity with little to no preconceived notions going in
<popey> yeah
<shauno> but guinea pigs aside, I think it'd be the wiser choice going forward either way
<popey> I am going over for an hour or so tomorrow to hand over / introduce
<popey> if it goes well I'll probably upgrade my mums PC to natty too
<popey> and going to give her a bigger screen too
<popey> "With this bigger screen you get a new UI"
<AlanBell> my kids are using natty
<popey> "oh, ok"
<popey> is how that will go
<popey> her revo should run natty okay
<shauno> that's pretty much how my mom went on linux.  her single complaint, "why is the start button at the top".  click, drag. to the bottom.  "oh, ok".
<AlanBell> yeah, shame on Natty the BFB is so useless
<AlanBell> I don't get why the top level menu of the bfb isn't the categories in the Applications menu
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/PCForFriend
<hamitron> haha popey
<popey> gonna mail the list too
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<daubers> Morning
<brobostigon> morning daubers
<Laney> ello
 * daubers makes a cuppa
<shauno> it's starting to feel like I should have tried sleeping instead of playing civ all night :(
 * Laney has a nice cuppa lapsang souchong
<daubers> shauno: Which Civ? Civ V is aces as is IV
<shauno> 5 :)
 * hamitron likes civnet
<hamitron> never had 4 or 5
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> never was a fan of 1, liked 2, never tried 3, hated 4 just because of what they did to colonization :/
<hamitron> I never got into 2, but my comp of the time was underpowered
<hamitron> :)
<daubers> V makes my laptop really toasty
<hamitron> hmmm, toast
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> yeah.  the fan on mine gets really quite loud if you zoom out
<shauno> which unfortunately some of the city views do for you :/
<hamitron> I wouldn't mind getting civ5, only they seem to release things so often
<hamitron> get as much $$$ outta ya as they can
<hamitron> prob worth it for someone who plays that particular game a lot more than I would
<shauno> to be honest, I only got civ5 because I got a shiney new laptop, and had a handful of 4-5yo games to play on it
<hamitron> :D
<shauno> so I got civ5, and then portal2 a couple of weeks later.  then realised I'd spend e100 on games in one month, and felt bad
<hamitron> do people still play freeciv?
<popey> some do âº
<shauno> never tried it.  I do play freecol when I get really bored tho
<popey> i have a friend who does
<shauno> (colonization was always much better than civ ;)
<hamitron> shauno: what is different?
<shauno> a lot more micromanagement I guess
<czajkowski> morning
<livingdaylight> GM
<livingdaylight> getting my Adroid gingerbread upgrade this morning
<MartijnVdS> which phone?
<dutchie> hmm, really should get round to finishing portal1
<MartijnVdS> Searching for Unity features/bugs on google is annoying
<MartijnVdS> there are apparently 2 other things with that name (at least)
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: why search there
<czajkowski> how about ask ubuntu for features and lp for bugs
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: because the wiki search sucks
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: so does launchpad search
<czajkowski> askubuntu ?
<MartijnVdS> Never used it.
<MartijnVdS> Google always worked before.
<czajkowski> handy lens you can install on unity
<czajkowski> search from dekstop
<czajkowski> handy
<MartijnVdS> but I have my browser open 99% of the time
<MartijnVdS> so why would I need that?
<czajkowski> ok
<MartijnVdS> the Search interface in unity is broken/annoying as well, so I don't use it.
<czajkowski> I'm sure you filed a bug then
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: Nah, it'll probably get closed with "This is how the design team wants it, quiet, you peon"
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, htc desire hd
<livingdaylight> on 3network
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: do you have any idea how annoying it is to hear people give out about thigns, but tell them to file a bug and then they wont they rather just give out
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: I'm not annoyed by search being bad, because I never use it _anyway_
<czajkowski> fine
<livingdaylight> I hope we get swype back on gingerbread
<shauno> I gotta admit, I find it more annoying the other way around.  it used to be that people would help you figure a problem out.  now they'll just let you languish in bugzilla
<MartijnVdS> shauno: yeah launchpad is a bit of a place where bugs go to die.
<MartijnVdS> (or live forever)
<AlanBell> so triage stuff
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: can't triage my own bugs
<AlanBell> true, but you can triage other peoples
<AlanBell> and you can look after your own bug a bit
<MartijnVdS> So their bugs get fixed and mine don't? :P
<czajkowski> of ffs
<czajkowski> I give up
<AlanBell> providing information, finding people to confirm it etc
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: and other people will fix your bugs and you fix theirs
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I've been reporting bugs since Warty (back when it was bugzilla), most have been closed "Not a bug" or "Oh we fixed that weeks ago and forgot to tell you"
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that doesn't help motivation.
<AlanBell> yeah, I do agree it is easy to become a bit jaded when dealing with launchpad
<MartijnVdS> Especially the unity bugs last cycle, that all got closed "Wontfix, design team override"
<AlanBell> and difficult bugs in general where the right people don't have the broken hardware
<MartijnVdS> yeah, that as well
<AlanBell> for instance every core i3 laptop has had a broken VGA port for over a year
<MartijnVdS> (I have this tuning issue that even the devs on the dvb mailing list cry about..)
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you order that DVB->USB box you linked to a few weeks back?
<AlanBell> so in Unity is there a way to navigate my installed applications by the categories I am used to?
<AlanBell> so if I used to click Applications-graphics-gimp how do I do that in unity?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: BFB -> More applications -> top right of the black overlay
<AlanBell> eww, ugly grey dropdown
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> personally when I click the bfb I want a big friendly icon for each category which takes me to a page with just that category
<gord> AlanBell, yeah the grey dropdown was a running out of time thing, sorry
<AlanBell> and universal access doesn't show me orca and onboard (both installed) but shows me a load of other stuff for download
<gord> we can only show things that a, want to be shown and b, have the right categories, unfortunately. sometimes things are out of our hands
<AlanBell> understood, any idea where I fix it?
<gord> the .desktop file for the applications normally
<AlanBell> right, ok
<livingdaylight> my android been upgraded to version 2.36.405.8
<shauno> is there a sensible way to get thunderbird to check for new mail in all folders?
<bigcalm> Good morning kids :)
<shauno> 'lo bob
<bigcalm> Bob?
<shauno> don't make me link you to weebl & bob.  it's 2011 already :p
<gord> don't worry bigcalm - i have no idea what he's on about either :)
<gord> i think its better that way
<shauno> :)
<bigcalm> shauno: there was no context to hint that you were making a Weebl reference. I still need coffee as well
<shauno> you're right, there wasn't.  I get just bored of 'howdy' sometimes
<AlanBell> gord: how do I find (and slap) the person who did this? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/onboard/oneiric/view/head:/debian/patches/01_disable_menu_icons.patch
<Azelphur> AlanBell: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/onboard/oneiric/revision/26 ?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "View revisions to this file"
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/onboard/oneiric/changes?filter_file_id=01_disable_menu_icon-20100414061233-bk6cf6sdsaty3jr8-1
<AlanBell> I think that is just who synced it from Debian
<Azelphur> AlanBell: go upstream then?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Luke Yelavich (themuso) did it
<AlanBell> huh, Luke did it O_o
<MartijnVdS> "To bring it in line with other assistive technologies, or something"
<MartijnVdS> s/, or something/", or something
 * awilkins is stuck at his daughters ballet class surrounded by screaming kids and people talking about bring stuff.
<awilkins> boring, not bring
<popey> haha
<popey> I just left daughters ballet class :D
 * awilkins feels he'd score much higher on the Asberger's quiz right now...
<MartijnVdS> popey: You linked to an ebay auction for a DVB-S2 receiver a few weeks ago. Did you end up ordering it?
<Azelphur> lol
<popey> no MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> popey: ok, because mine still has a flakey driver :)
<MartijnVdS> (and the kernel people say it's not a bug, or something.. or at least that the available patch isn't correct)
<awilkins> These things are pretty simple, mostly aren't they
<awilkins> Well, in principle
<awilkins> I get the impression they all present themselves as a network adapter
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: DVB cards? No.. they're special.
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> awilkins:
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: DVB is its own subsystem
<awilkins> Yes, but when I plug them into Windows they have a MAC address and everything
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: ah sure, but that's Windows :)
<MartijnVdS> All cards work in Windows (they have drivers)
<awilkins> Which is why I gain the impression that the hardware is abstracted as a network interface
<MartijnVdS> https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/244201/
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: but it's not :) It contains a network bit (for IP-over-DVB reception: satellite internet)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: but that's about it
<awilkins> Only really mucked about with MythTV and the userland tools
<awilkins> And the last time I had to actually do anything was years ago.. the drivers on the hardware I've got work ok.
<MartijnVdS> yeah usually it does
<MartijnVdS> but this revision of the chipset is weird. Or something
<bigcalm> Morning popey. I've been sent a new 'welcome to vm' letter. Did that happen when you upgraded?
<awilkins> Heh, they do that, totally revise the internals of the card, call it by the same model number, but totally different hardware inside
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> popey: ignore it or call them up?
<awilkins> I must get onto VM at some point and review my current bill / service ratio
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: No the card is fine -- it's just that one of the chips works slightly differently in the batch that I have
<awilkins> I'm comfy enough on 10MBit/s but I'm sure they are probably overcharging me for it
<gord> AlanBell, yeah a few apps have done that, i'm working my way through convincing the desktop guys to revert all that stuff
<awilkins> Dammit, should have brought my PSU, apparently tethering the phone sucks charge like a McD's milkshake
<gord> hehe, prize for worst analogy of the day goes to awilkins and its only midday!
<AlanBell> gord: yeah, the "decluttering" argument (which doesn't have much merit at the best of times) is totally invalidated by including icons for stuff you don't even have installed
<AlanBell> it would be better to not have onboard on the CD and then it would be more discoverable!
 * awilkins has left his earplug/phones at home and has to cope with the gossipings of working class Northern mothers without 45dB attenuation or distraction. Curses.
<awilkins> Don't suppose anyone can link me to some pretty pictures of the internal design of RCS / CVS
<awilkins> The project I'm working on apparently has a version control design demonstrable worse than systems released 38 years ago. *sob*
<popey> bigcalm: I havent opened it âº
<popey> AlanBell: what does that patch do?
<Azelphur> wow, paid aircondirect for next day delivery, 2 days ago, say they won't get my item to me till monday and won't refund
<Azelphur> probably gonna raise paypal dispute on this one
<popey> hahaha aircodirect
<popey> I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole
<Azelphur> noted :P
<popey> http://strugglers.net/~andy/blog/2008/08/27/dont-shop-with-laptops-direct-unless-you-enjoy-marketing-email-and-a-hard-sell/
<popey> same people
<Azelphur> nice
<popey> their marketing guy replied on that thread
<bigcalm> popey: I've opened mine at it is a new contract to sign :|
<popey> erk
<popey> also, someone has setup @popeydishwasher
<czajkowski> oh I had war with them
<czajkowski> evil horrible place to buy laptop from them
<czajkowski> HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE
<czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/tag/laptopsdirect/
<czajkowski> popey: gt a gifgaff sim
<czajkowski> any idea how I get to port over my O2 number to it ?
<popey> call O2 âº
<czajkowski> ah as simple as that
<czajkowski> grand
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> wondered who I had to tell
<dutchie> o2 will give you a PAC number
<dutchie> czajkowski: http://support.giffgaff.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/599/session/L3NpZC9XSDZyYnVoaw%3D%3D
<AlanBell> popey: it hides onboard from the unity menu
<dutchie> that needs a better url
<AlanBell> popey: and the regular gnome menu too
<popey> i thought it just hid the icon
<AlanBell> it does
<AlanBell> click the applications lens, use the dropdown in the top right (that doesn't look much like a dropdown) to select universal access and it just shows you stuff you don't have and hides the stuff you do have
<czajkowski> dutchie: cheers
<dutchie> czajkowski: np
<Azelphur> Anyone know about A/C's reckon this will do a small room with 8 computers in it? http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Air-Conditioners/buy-PROLINE-CL220-Air-Conditioner/371211
<penguin42> Azelphur: Just normal PCs?
<penguin42> Azelphur: With monitors? High end or just normal? And are there people in there?
<Azelphur> penguin42: GPU cluster, so high spec graphics cards at 100% but no monitors and no people
<penguin42> Azelphur: OK, so what do you reckon each computer is drawing? 500W ?
<Azelphur> that sounds about right, yes
<Azelphur> hopefully a bit lower than that, 500w is worst case
<penguin42> Azelphur: OK, so 8*500=4kW l that says it has 2.4kW cooling capacity (and that's normally based on a room with humans in - so probably 2kW or a bit less for mostly computers)
<penguin42> so no, it won't do it
<Azelphur> ok
<Azelphur> so i need a 4kw unit xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: Well, a bit more than 4kW if it's designed to cool a room with 4kW of mostly humans in; humans give off hot warm liquid that's easier to cool
<penguin42> Azelphur: The other thing with that is I'm assuming it's one that has a water tank that will need regularly emptying
<Azelphur> i would have thought computers dont give off heat at a 1:1 ratio of power usage?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Where else would you expect the power to go?
<Azelphur> no its not a swamp cooler? :p
<Azelphur> to be used in the computer?
<penguin42> Azelphur: And then what happens to it?
<Azelphur> and then its used? o.o
<penguin42> Azelphur: *all* power that goes in ends up as heat
<Azelphur> i see
<penguin42> Azelphur: (The light from the LEDs and the sound of the fans even end up as heat when they are absorbed by the walls)
<Azelphur> fun
<penguin42> there is a TINY information theoretic usage from reordering information into information with erm is it more? entropy that uses some of the energy
<Azelphur> i see
<penguin42> hmm thinking about it I think it's working on something to produce something with less entropy that would use energy? But heck that's above my physics knowledge without reading it up again
<Azelphur> lol
<penguin42> Azelphur: In the UK it's easy; you measure computer energy use in kWh, they put out kW of heat and you measure aircon in kw cooled; in the US however their computers take kW of energy, they measure heat output in BTU and cooling capacity in tonnes (of ice)
<Azelphur> but btu means british something unit
<dutchie> thermal
<penguin42> Azelphur: You're actually better with say 3 of those 2kW coolers than one 4kW unit; first they're fairly cheap and secondly when one fails (which it will) you won't suddenly burn it out
<Azelphur> cool
<penguin42> Azelphur: I bet they use about 1kW for every 2kW cooled though!
<Azelphur> haha its not quite that bad
<penguin42> Azelphur: There is another way
<Azelphur> yea?
<penguin42> Azelphur: You can get rid of some of the heat by using fans just to blow the heat from the back of the machines straight out of the window
<penguin42> of course, the cops will think your running a cannabis farm but still
<Azelphur> yea, i figured theyd think that anyway
<penguin42> Azelphur: If you can organise an airflow to get the exhause fans straight outside it'll save a LOT of cooling
<Azelphur> interesting
<Azelphur> like a wind tunnel with the computers in it?
<Azelphur> with some big desk fans to keep thins moving, ghetto style? :D
<penguin42> Azelphur: The data centre design for cooling is really hairy
<Azelphur> yea?
<penguin42> yeh; try reading some of the way Facebook do it oin their public data centre design
<Azelphur> cool, will do :D
 * penguin42 used to keep a room with about 25kw in it going
<Azelphur> penguin42: fun :p
<Azelphur> Penmy brothers getting right miffed about it and saying that a 2kw unit will do it
<Azelphur> penguin42: *
<Azelphur> penguin42: he also says that you can't use energy twice (once for the computer, and twice for heat) lol
<penguin42> Azelphur: Correct; the answer to that is that there are two lumps of energy; the original energy that goes in to the computer and produces the heat, and the 2nd energy that's used to move the other energy and that's the nergey that goes into the aircon
<Azelphur> I see :P
 * hamitron is using wind power for cooling
<penguin42> Azelphur: IMHO it's a bit nuts to have 2kW of compute power at home :-)
<Azelphur> I know :)
<Azelphur> penguin42: 4kw :p
<hamitron> there is no debate on that, we know he is nuts ;)
<penguin42> Azelphur: In the winter it'll work well if you spread them out and use them as heaters - then you don't need the cooling
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> they are a bit noisy for that
<penguin42> seriously
<hamitron> penguin42 is right, computer heating ftw
<Azelphur> penguin42: so basically I have 2 rows of 4 computers with a GPU in each
<Azelphur> reckon I can just build tunnels out of cardboard
<Azelphur> and stick some desk fans and point it out the window?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Surely this isn't worth it once all the costs are taken into account?
<Azelphur> penguin42: we'll see, I already have the computers it's just cooling now :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Certainly tunneling it out of the window will help, I might go for something a bit more punchy than desk fans
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110520_150522.jpg
<Azelphur> what would you recommend?
<hamitron> 300 PSI compressor
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> :p
<penguin42> Azelphur: You can get some chunky floor fns - big 40/50cm things
<hamitron> prob blow the gpu over :/
<penguin42> Azelphur: And seriously keep an eye on the temperature - if you've not got airflow in/out of windows then you could hit 40c in there if your aircon stops
<Azelphur> penguin42: the fans I have are pretty close, 30cm
<Azelphur> yea, temp monitoring is always a must
<Azelphur> I thought the tunneling mitigated the need for aircon?
<penguin42> it helps a lot
<penguin42> but I'm not sure how much and how to quantify it; I've never tried it myself, just read about doing that
<Azelphur> but can we mitigate the need for it altogether? :p
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> unplug the comps?
<hamitron> ;)
<penguin42> all the stuff I've done is with air con units
<Azelphur> I see
<hamitron> imo, you should use A/C for the room, then possibly 2 floor fans to move the hot air away from the mobo
<hamitron> easiest
<Azelphur> yea, so definitely gonna want an A/C
<Azelphur> so start with http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Air-Conditioners/buy-PROLINE-CL220-Air-Conditioner/371211+ tunnels and keep an eye on the temps?
<penguin42> I'd actually go with trying to duct as much of the heat out as possible - if nothing else it'll save you measureable aircon costs
<hamitron> suppose an extractor fan on the window, with an intake at the other side of the room maybe....
<penguin42> Azelphur: When you do this please keep room temp graphs; I'd love to see them as you add each extra machine
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> don't have any room temp sensors :(
<Azelphur> only card sensors :p
<hamitron> "each extra machine" <-- he is gonna prob plug everything in and hit the switch
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> ^ that too
<penguin42> hamitron: It'll make bunsfield look tame
<hamitron> bunsfield?
<Azelphur> penguin42: so do you think buying that aircon unit and ducting all the mobos straight out to the window is the best course of action to start?
<Azelphur> and see how it goes
<penguin42> Azelphur: Get yourself one of the ~Â£10 plug in energy monitors to see how much one machine actually uses when it's running
<Azelphur> I have one
<Azelphur> that's how I knew the 500w figure was accurate :)
<hamitron> 500w!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<hamitron> wtf is it?
<Azelphur> (although I'd like to get that way down, I havn't optimized anything yet)
<penguin42> hamitron: And he has 8 of them
<hamitron> yeh, but 500W for a comp seems a lot
<Azelphur> hamitron: that's the 6990 overclocked with the memory hiked up too
<hamitron> oh
<hamitron> I mean the power for the nodes wtih the 5870
<Azelphur> really plenty of optimization to be done there
<Azelphur> yea, they arn't out of the boxes yet
<penguin42> Azelphur: It might be worth doing the maths of whether the overclocking is worth it; the compute power probably goes up slower than the energy/heat
<Azelphur> penguin42: but yea, do I go to the shop now and buy that A/C or not? :P
<Azelphur> yes, I need to do that too :)
<hamitron> i was thinking 8 x 500 + 550 + AirCon_unit
<Azelphur> hamitron: nah, I wanna get that way down
<hamitron> and make sure you check the ring is fused
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> house fires ftl
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'll get you to help me with that :P
<hamitron> I can't see :/
<penguin42> hamitron: Power wise it's not that high; his 8 machines at 500w is still only a little more than a kettle
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> penguin42: it isn't just them
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> hamitron: what else is it?
<hamitron> the 6990
<penguin42> Azelphur: Don't laugh until you've taken out a 100A fuse - a few times - and knocked out the breaker to a 1/3 of a building
<hamitron> your main comp
<Azelphur> that's only one more lol
<Azelphur> penguin42: haha
<hamitron> and you mentioned something about an electric heater
<Azelphur> penguin42: but yea I need to get down to this shop before it closes and buy an A/C if we all think that's the good thing to do :)
<Azelphur> so shall I do that?
<hamitron> penguin42: we added stuff up and worked out there could be about 34A
<Azelphur> it sounds good to me, weak A/C and duct to start with
<penguin42> Azelphur: Seems a bit wimpy aircon to me, but starting with that is probably a good learning job
<Azelphur> yea, I can always buy another one if it's wimpy right?
<penguin42> yeh; you want to check there is a way to duct the water out of it - other wise you'll spend your entire life changing buckets on them
<Azelphur> I reckon tunnels + that ac should be a good start :D
<Azelphur> it has a 1.5m hose, they usually chuck the water out the hose
<penguin42> ah good; some have a bucket
<Azelphur> ok then, I'll sort out getting one of those and work on ducting everything out the window :p
<Azelphur> building supercomputers in the spare bedroom is fun :D
<hamitron> and a heavy dutty mains extension
<hamitron> ;/
<penguin42> well it'll need more than one; >13A
<penguin42> hamitron: How did you get 34A?
<hamitron> that included everything else on the circuit
<penguin42> ah
<hamitron> to avoid blowing a fuse
<penguin42> that's a shame given they're typically 32A fuses :-)
<hamitron> so he may need to plug a main extension in a different part of the house, to power the A/C on a different circuit
 * penguin42 would probably split it into 2
<penguin42> hamitron: How long before he starts getting a 32A commando wired in ?
<hamitron> the A/C unit was 6.3A I think
<hamitron> haha
<penguin42> 6.3A for 2.4kw cooling? heck that's a bit grim
<hamitron> but less now he is downsizing
<hamitron> my figures are for a larger unit I think
 * hamitron grips his head in terror
<hamitron> off for tea and cheese scone
<hamitron> scoone
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> with butter anyway
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Teams up for re approval Re-approvals for O-Cycle - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/05/21/teams-up-for-re-approval-re-approvals-for-o-cycle/
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Can someone please help me understand about 3G USB Modem ?
<kaushal> Does USB modem means CDMA or GSM ?
<kaushal> very confusing
<brobostigon> inthe uk, it will be gsm.
<brobostigon> there arent any cdma networks inthe uk, that i know of.
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> so 3G means UMTS ?
<kaushal> UMTS 2100 ?
<brobostigon> or hsdpa.
<brobostigon> which is 3.5g.
 * popey notes kaushal isn't in the UK
<brobostigon> oh, i didnt know.ok. then ignore whati have said.
<kaushal> brobostigon: np
<kaushal> popey: Any reference about 3G ?
<kaushal> Its so confusing
<kaushal> GPRS EDGE HSPA WCDMA .....
<popey> Can you ask a specific question?
<kaushal> sure
<kaushal> How do i get to know these terms
<popey> wikipedia?
<kaushal> 2.5 G 2G 3G 3.5G blah blah
<ali1234> why does screen clear the LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
<hamitron> new bash instance?
<hamitron> or it fully clears it?
<ali1234> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=foo BAR=bar screen
<ali1234> inside screen: echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH; echo $BAR
<hamitron> I've just added up what linux has cost me over the years
<hamitron> Â£840
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> ali1234: it does on mine too
<hamitron> but when I load screen, the bash it is using is a different process
<hamitron> so it is like opening a seperate terminal
<kvarley> hamitron: Linux has cost me nothing except time
<hamitron> it has cost me that too
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> the price is for the books I bought, because of linux
<hamitron> :/
<kvarley> hamitron: I was lucky enough to have time to play around and learn. And also access to wiki and irc resources helped massively
<kvarley> UbuntuForums is where I initially started getting help :)
<hamitron> well, I can't blame ubuntu, it didn't exist
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> for sure, ubuntu, by providing a stable, easy to use platform, has reduce the cost of ownership
<hamitron> it would have still cost me though, I have to read up on things when I show an interest
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> took me 4 books to get X working though
<hamitron> :/
 * popey tickles bigcalm 
<czajkowski> popey: how was rio ?
 * bigcalm squeeks
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<popey> yea, ok. not as good as disney films
<czajkowski> want to get tangled
<czajkowski> didnt see that yet
<czajkowski> http://adisney.go.com/disneypictures/tangled/
<bigcalm> I forgot how much fun Dymo labler is
<popey> hahah
<popey> the clunk ones?
<popey> with the tape that makes you bleed when you peel it?
<bigcalm> http://yfrog.com/gza4rytxj
<bigcalm> Yep :D
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> Except, they've improved the peeling bit
<bigcalm> Now, as well as cutting the tape, it also semi-cuts a bit before it, so you can peel it back
<popey> oh ours did that, but it still ended up with blood âº
<bigcalm> Blood \o/
<danfish> black pudding \o/
<popey> \o/
<mgdm> \o/
<bigcalm> Yes please!
<bigcalm> Hi mgdm
<danfish> not quite sure why I typed "black pudding" but hay hoo!
<danfish> Having a barbie 2nite - I wonder if you can bbq black pudding?
<bigcalm> I see no reason for not typing it :)
<danfish> oh well - nothing ventured, etc.....hmm an idea is forming for experimental cooking pt 2 - breakfast on the BBQ :D
<gord> stoopid laptop, get out of donnington, thats not where you live
<bigcalm> 4sq wouldn't get out of Wolverhampton today :(
<mgdm> Hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> I want to refactor this project from 2000
<bigcalm> If only I had about a year to work on it and do nothing else
<bigcalm> I hate to admit it, but I think even Drupal would work for most of it
 * bigcalm feels very dirty now
<mgdm> heh
<bigcalm> At leat I get to make it 'modern' with bits of jQuery :)
<mgdm> I've been revising my dormant JS skills of late
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/SimpleGuide
<popey> *cough*
<popey> \o/ end of the world
<danfish> has the Rapture happened? Where did I end up?
<gord> yeah but it only took cliff richard
<danfish> that's price worth paying IMO ;)
<mgdm> sadly I didn't get to implement the plan I heard about the other day, to leave loads of pairs of shoes lying about with dry ice in
<popey> âº
<czajkowski> what time is dr. who on at
<czajkowski> 7 or 8
<danfish> czajkowski: 6.45
<popey> 6:45
<czajkowski> cheers
<bigcalm> I just started to check a tv guide app on my phone
<bigcalm> Can be useful
<danfish> but time for dr who is a very grey area ;)
<mgdm> hehe
<popey> it's wibbly wobbly
<popey> well, this laptop is all installed
<mgdm> anythign special?
<danfish> I was supposed to be moving a (work) zoneminder install to a new low power dual atom MB, but the weather today has been too good
<mgdm> the weather here is pretty miserable
<bigcalm> Grey grey and more grey
<mgdm> if I have 2 monitors, of different heights, am I always going to have a virtual desktop the same height as the largest monitor, so there's a bit off to the bottom left of the smaller one that I can't see?
<danfish> a bit of a north/south divide :(
<danfish> virtual desktops and dual monitors takes a bit of thinking about
<mgdm> Sadly the control panel applet which should make it easier crashes X every time so I have to use xrandr, which probably isn't the cleanest way
<danfish> is that on natty/unity?
<bigcalm> Why can I never remember how to do pagination quickly and easily? Always seem to be reinventing the wheel
<mgdm> danfish: nah, "classic" on natty
<mgdm> Unity did some decidedly odd things :)
<anulondon> hi.
<anulondon> london_are you using 10.04
<anulondon> here
<brobostigon> ?
<anulondon> hi
<danfish> popey: how's you do the smily? or is it under a superinjunction?
<mgdm> âº
<danfish> s/smily/smiley
<mgdm> ctrl-shift u 2 6 3 a space
<mgdm> it's a unicode codepoint, so rather fiddly to type
<mgdm> ctrl-shift-u should get you a sort of underlined 'u'
<danfish> âº#
<mgdm> then type 263a and hit space, then you should have your smiley
<danfish> nearly!
<danfish> thanks
<mgdm> there's a pile of "useful" stuff in there :)
<danfish> I solemnly promise not spam the channel with rubbish unicode âº
<popey> i have an alias in my irc client
<danfish> â¤
<mgdm> â
<czajkowski>   â         â      â  â
<czajkowski> ââââââ  â  âââââââ ââ â âââââââ
<czajkowski> â ââ  âââââ â ââ â â ââ ââ âââ
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> ââââ  ââ ââ â âââ   â ââââ ââââ
<brobostigon> :) in 15mins.
<czajkowski> best thing Daviey ever did for my irc client
<mgdm> ...you broke your own combo?
<popey> no spoilers pls
<brobostigon> ok.
<mgdm> Hmmm, I've not been very impressed with this series so far
<mgdm> so Im' not sure if I'll bother watching
<czajkowski> mgdm: likewise
<popey> last weeks was good
<popey> best for a long while IMO
<mgdm> That was Neil Gaiman's, wasn't it?
<mgdm> I expected it to be good
<danfish> mgdm: as I've said before, time, and opinions are all relative ;)
<Daviey> czajkowski, lol, i forgot i set that up for you.
<mgdm> danfish: I'm not trying to force anyone into the same opinion, it was just a statement
<czajkowski> Daviey: :D
<czajkowski> Daviey: see you have a use
<Daviey> i so do!
<mgdm> Why, when I try to resize a window using the grabber at the bottom right, am I instead getting the same menu I'd get from the window icon at the top left?!
<mgdm> Oh, the titlebar was offscreen, which makes it do that
<mgdm> weird
<danfish> mgdm: when I look at the TV schedules, there is so little worth watching - I'm just happy to see anything remotely good ie Dr Who. It's that or "Britain's got talent in the jungle ice skating" ;)
<mgdm> I wished they'd make a combination of "SAS: Are You Tough Enough?" with "I'm a 'Celebrity'@
<mgdm> actually, if they'd make a celebrity version of I'm a Celebrity, that might be quite good
<danfish> mgdm: :)
<czajkowski> and we can taljk again
<popey> we can?
<czajkowski> indeed  the dr.who is over so channel chat can resume
<danfish> no spoilers plz as recorded
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> I usually rant in the morning on fb
<danfish> my 2 year old will probably wake me up at 5am giving me catchup time;)
<czajkowski> danfish: eh ?
<danfish> czajkowski: he can watch cbeebies while I watch dr who on laptop....at 5 am
<czajkowski> danfish: unusal arangement
<czajkowski> what ever works though
<popey> blimey 5am
<popey> I'd put them back in bed
<czajkowski> at least till 6:30
<czajkowski> thats when I wake up
<czajkowski> stupid hour
<danfish> popey: sunrise
<popey> our kids wake up time is 7am
<popey> if they wake before that they are told to stay in bed
<czajkowski> mate loves it when I stay over her kids wake up at 6 they come into me when I'm there
<popey> danfish: blackout blinds âº
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> smart
<czajkowski> it does however spoil you
<popey> they still sometimes wake at 6am, but they get told to get back in bed
<czajkowski> ireland house has them
<danfish> popey: drugs ;D
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> danfish: :o
<czajkowski> calpol tastes nice
<czajkowski> as long as it's the kids one
<czajkowski> the 6+ isnt so nice
<czajkowski> one for you
<czajkowski> two for me
<popey> !
<popey> I have never tasted it
<czajkowski> popey: take a swig of it
<czajkowski> yummy strawberry sugarness
<popey> nah
<danfish> czajkowski: why, oh why?
<TheOpenSourcerer> My kids wake at sunrise pretty much - They just go downstairs and watch telly. Don't even bother to wake us up anymore
<czajkowski> danfish: tis nice
<popey> ours aren't allowed downstairs till we get up
<popey> but they're still young
<popey> 7 and 4
<TheOpenSourcerer> 10 & 6
<danfish> mine our 2 & 4
<danfish> s/our/are
<czajkowski> hard to believe the 4 year old is 4, he's  as smart as 5/6 year old
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will be making a beef Madras for dinner tomorrow :-D
<popey> ooo yum
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hang on! How come we are still alive?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Are we now in heaven?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't feel a thing
 * danfish is making lamb flaps tomorrow - no sniggering!
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<livingdaylight> I've been to Madras, now called Chenai, but didn't know they did beef
<TheOpenSourcerer> WTF are lamb flaps?
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can make a curry with any meat.
<danfish> lamb breast - braised for 1 hour then BBQ'd
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some religions in India do eat Beef and in Sri Lanka some of them eat Pork too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sounds fun danfish.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We need some twitpics  I think.
<livingdaylight> Hindus definitely don't eat beef
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will be having my second go at home made Naan tomorrow too.
<livingdaylight> Muslims like their meat
<TheOpenSourcerer> livingdaylight: Hindus do generally not eat beef yes.
<danfish> I will put the recipe/pics on the receipe bit on ubuntu-uk wiki
<livingdaylight> TheOpenSourcerer, not at all, lol, Cows are sacred to them
<livingdaylight> I don't know whether that is where the expression "Holy Cow!" comes from?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm not 100% sure it applies to *all* hindus. There are shedloads of gods and many different kinds of Hindu.
<livingdaylight> Hindus are supposed to be vegetarian afaik.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I spent 5 weeks travelling around India with an Indian family in 1989. Great place.
<livingdaylight> unless their dacoits worshipping Ka
<TheOpenSourcerer> Want to go back with the kids when they are a bit older.
<livingdaylight> *Kali or Durga
 * livingdaylight is making pizza dough
<popey> RIght, Doctor Who time for me
<popey> now sophie is in bed
<livingdaylight> Anyone watch The Wave late last night? good film i thought
<czajkowski> popey: got the beer and curry in to watch it
<popey> cant really have too much beer
<popey> daddy daycare
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> but 1 is allowed
<czajkowski> don't spill when you jump
<popey> so I am having vodka ;)
<czajkowski> popey: you have the most oddest logic of any person I know
<gord> its true, you really can't have too much beer
<czajkowski> and I know a lotta odd balls
<livingdaylight> popey, I was thinking bout what you said in relation to Sony laptops, and wondered how that didn't equally apply to Apple Macs?
<ball> I wish I could watch Doctor Who
<czajkowski> running ubuntu on my last sony was a royal pita
<czajkowski> non of the sony special keys would ever work
<czajkowski> and which is a nice feature of sony to have
<czajkowski> so never buying one again
<czajkowski> do like my toshiba though
<czajkowski> but next laptop is going to be light!
<livingdaylight> samsung do a nice 13" one - i5 processor and light
<popey> livingdaylight: apple laptops > sony laptops
<popey> in some ways âº
<ball> Sony generally is a PitA in my experience.
<popey> yup
<ball> I don't know about over there, but here their laptops have a common failure mode in the cooling fan.
<livingdaylight> popey, that's what I thought, if I understood you - Apple are king of proprietary, no?
<gord> sony laptops seem to be for the person who wants to buy a product, all wrapped up in a bow, they don't want to do anything to it, they just want to have it and it do what they want
<ball> ...and for a while they were partitioning their Windows machines in a way that made no sense for anyone.
<ball> (not an issue for us, but inconvenient for their customers)
<popey> livingdaylight: *shrug*
<ball> In some ways Apple are less proprietary than they used to be. In others, perhaps a little more.
<ball> Either way, provided the person buying it knows what they're getting into, that's fair enough.
<popey> yeah
<popey> gosh this vodka is ferocous
<popey> ferocious
 * ball is drinking ginger ale
 * ball is full of Chinese food.
 * ball seems to be referring to himself in the third person.
 * livingdaylight wonders why ball does that?
<ball> livingdaylight: It may be a side effect of the noodles.
<matti> ;]
<popey> mmmm noodles
<popey> bah, I'm in two channels where people are talking about food
<nigelb> popey: That tends to happen a lot when I'm hungry :/
<gord> just FYI - i have pringles
<czajkowski> gord: I have coconut rings
<czajkowski> and kitkats!
<gord> bleeeeh things with coconut on it
 * penguin42 doesn't have any mini rolls any more 
<ball> NOM! :-9
<ball> Oh well... off to the garden centre
<nigelb> gord, czajkowski: EVIL people!
<czajkowski> I had a twinky during the week
<czajkowski> the bf got a lot of american sweets
<czajkowski> a whole box of them
<czajkowski> thought I didnt like them
<czajkowski> turns out I do
<gord> i don't like american sweets, its all wrong
<gord> even things that are the same brand as here? its all wrong
<gord> i tried some american gummy bears? ew
<penguin42> gord: Yeh I've occasionally had stuff people have bought over, they have some very odd things
 * penguin42 remembers some things that looked like maltesers but tasted almost exactly unlike them
<jacobw> penguin42: reeces peices?
<penguin42> no - those don't look anything like maltesers
<penguin42> jacobw: I think they may have been 'whoppers'
<penguin42> very odd things
<czajkowski> whoo time for some Tangled
<Azelphur> hmm, I installed the fglrx package, but when I run startx it says that the fglrx module does not exist :S
<Azelphur> what's up with that?
<penguin42> any errors during package installation?
<Azelphur> penguin42: I did have one originally, it was about a file not existing, I created the folder and then it carried on
<Azelphur> now I can reinstall fglrx with no errors
<Azelphur> penguin42: I can even modprobe fglrx, this makes no sense \o/
<jacobw> lsmod?
<Azelphur> yep, it's there http://pastebin.com/i3dXiRSX
<penguin42> I['m wondering if that's the X server module not the kernel module
<Azelphur> maybe, what's the package for the x module?
<Azelphur> anyone? :p
<Seeker`> To all the people who were expecting the rapture today, cheer up, it's not like it's the end of the world. Oh...wait...sorry.
<Azelphur> haha :D
<daubers> Seeker`: It's rather rude making all this noise about coming and then not turning up
<daubers> I made a cake and everything
<JGJones> Hmm I don't think much of this Rapture thing...everything look the same as before...oh wait...does that mean we're in hell without knowing it?
<jacobw> JGJones: we've all got until october to die
<jacobw> JGJones: and presumably go to hell
<Laney> happy smug atheists day
<jacobw> atheism is so last 00's, possibilianism is new thing.
<jacobw> eurgh. -last.
<jacobw> +the
<jacobw> grammar fail.
<alnsn> disconnect
<alnsn> help
<JGJones> jacobw, at the risk of repeating a joke too often repeated....don't worry about the grammar fail, it's not the end of the world after all.
<Azelphur> sigh, just had another DDoS attack on my server from another comcast user, 3rd one in the past couple months
<Azelphur> and comcast abuse@ just ignores my emails \o/
<Azelphur> very tempted to make a happy fun time thread on my forum with all the information I can gather (inc real name and home addresses) for everyone to play with \o/
<Azelphur> popey: ^ you was in favour of abuse@ instead of posting before, any thoughts now? :D
<Laney> how can you have a ddos from a single user?
<Azelphur> Laney: because they say "Look at me I'm going to DDoS the server"
<Azelphur> they tend to be rather obvious about doing it
<Laney> not very distributed is it?
<Azelphur> sure it is, it's a distributed attack instigated by one person
<Azelphur> that's pretty much the norm with DDoS attacks
<Laney> not sure what comcast are going to do about it then
<penguin42> how can you tell they instigated it?
<Azelphur> Laney: I sent them one when it wasn't even distributed for example
<Azelphur> I sent connection logs, chat logs, packet dumps, multiple forum threads from other servers attacked by the same guy
<Azelphur> and got no reply.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-22
<Azelphur> penguin42: {âµeà¸°}Project - 7</span>: Anyone want a DDoS? <-- spamming this was the most recent one :p
<Azelphur> just before the attack started, it's not exactly rocket science.
<JGJones> Ah that's the problem
<JGJones> Azelphur, you're making the mistake of *assuming* that the "tech" people at comcast can understand the stuff you're sending them ;-)
<Azelphur> indeed, you'd think the abuse@ people would be somewhat trained to deal with (D)DoS attacks
<JGJones> maybe if you inserted some OMG PONIES, they might get it.
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> ponies?
<Azelphur> maybe I should do what gamesurge do when ISP's refuse to respond to abuse@ emails
<Azelphur> they just kline the entire ISP with a message telling the users to call their ISP and complain to get the issue resolved
<Azelphur> amazingly seems to work rather well
<Azelphur> like this http://www.irc-junkie.org/2005-05-26/troublemaker-forces-gamesurge-to-gline-isp/ \o/
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> \o
<zprood> Hi anyone?
<popey> hello
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> Morning all
<czajkowski> Aloha
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> bug #775001
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 775001 in mobile-broadband-provider-info (Ubuntu) "Settings incorrect for Vodafone 'Top up and go'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775001
<czajkowski> popey: you left surrey you're missed :(
<popey> hah
<popey> so robert can moan at me about his bug
<czajkowski> I said I'd poke someone during the week
<bigcalm> Ello peeps
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<livingdaylight> Aloha
<brobostigon> morning livingdaylight
<scoundrel50a> Hi, the past couple of weeks, I have had a few problems with my router and ISP, and have had to use the Starbucks not far away to use the net. I havent used Ubuntu, as I am not sure its safe enough. I had to use my windows instead. I found something about using OpenVPN, found here.....http://vpnblog.info/ubuntu1010-openvpn-strongvpn.html but I am having a problem. I followed the first step, no problems, then  it asks you to do the second s
<scoundrel50a> tep, but where are the configuration file, and for that matter, where is OpenVPN installed to in the first step?
<livingdaylight> almost everyone except for RSM and Maureen on this list use Apple macs - http://usesthis.com/archives/
<livingdaylight> brobostigon, morning
<livingdaylight> scoundrel50a, safe or unsafe in what sense?
 * livingdaylight is watching debate on society with or without religion on bbc1 
<scoundrel50a> well, I was warned using ubuntu without firewall, that it would be unsafe, hence to use the Openvpn
<_serial_> the ports are shut by default with linux right?
<_serial_> i use gufw for all my firewall needs, very useful :)
<scoundrel50a> using the Starbucks internet
<_serial_> ah
<_serial_> vpn or tor then :/
<scoundrel50a> that is why I asked about installing the vpn, I'm having problems with it. The second part of the install instructions I just dont understand.
<scoundrel50a> if you follow the url I gave
<danfish> scoundrel50a: or an ssh tunnel - easier to setup IMO
<_serial_> x forwarding with ssh?
<scoundrel50a> danfish: oh ok, where is an easy set up instruction page for that?
<danfish> no - using the -D option to set up a proxy
<danfish> scoundrel50a: give me a moment, but the command is ssh -D 8000 remoteserverip, then set the proxy settings to use localhost and port 8000
<danfish> http://embraceubuntu.com/2006/12/08/ssh-tunnel-socks-proxy-forwarding-secure-browsing/
<scoundrel50a> danfish: what would I need to put in for the username and ip address? How can I find that out?
<danfish> scoundrel50a: it does assume that you have an account on a remote server with ssh access
<scoundrel50a> danfish: ok, dont know what that is, so how do I get one.
<scoundrel50a> I havw my own web server with ssh access is that what you talk about?
<danfish> scoundrel50a: yup - that should do
<scoundrel50a> oh, so I connect to my server, then how does it work, just open up a browser is it, or do you have to use the terminal?
<rindolf> Hi all.
<rindolf> How do I install the usleep (1) command on Ubuntu?
<dwatkins> rindolf: it's not a command, it's a function in C from what I can tell.
<rindolf> dwatkins: it's also a command-line command.
<dutchie> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=usleep&mode=&suite=natty&arch=any
<dutchie> rindolf: ^^
<rindolf> dutchie: hmmm.... I want /bin/usleep
<AlanBell> rindolf: what does it do?
<rindolf> AlanBell: sleep for certain microseconds.
<AlanBell> scoundrel50a: you can forward ports to your current location
<AlanBell> scoundrel50a: or use it as a socks proxy on localhost
<AlanBell> scoundrel50a: so with the command danfish gave set your firefox settings to use a socks proxy on localhost port 8000
<AlanBell> rindolf: the sleep command looks like it takes fractions of seconds
<rindolf> AlanBell: micro-seconds.
<rindolf> AlanBell: ah, you mean sleep(1)
<AlanBell> so sleep 0.001 would sleep for a microsecond
<ali1234> good luck with that
<scoundrel50a> AlanBell: Sorry it took so long to get back to you, been a bit busy. Just found that in FF about the proxy, can the proxy settings be done in Google Chrome?
<ali1234> process init takes well over microseconds
<AlanBell> yeah, doubt it is accurate to that level
<AlanBell> scoundrel50a: sure
<Moschops> Have you got a sleep that takes a floating point number? Mine only takes an int :(
<ali1234> yes, sleep from gnu coreutils takes a float
<ali1234> at least it does according to the manual page
<Moschops> Ossum.
<scoundrel50a> AlanBell: ok, thank you, I'll take a look at that. Try it before I go out, see if I can get it to work.
<rindolf> ali1234: sleep 0.001 will sleep for a millisecond.
<ali1234> time sleep 0.000001
<ali1234> real	0m0.003s
<scoundrel50a> Is there something like FoxyProxy for Google Chrome?
<dutchie> might as well just call /bin/true for that...
<ali1234> indeed
<Moschops> So, end of the world was cancelled again.
<MartijnVdS> gullible much? :)
<Moschops> I was hoping for a big dip in the market in the approach. :(
 * penguin42 is tempted to submit a bug 'System still works after the end of the world'
<Moschops> Maybe it did end, but rebooted. We'd never notice.
<gord> if the world did end, all that would be left is millions of computers sitting there with the words "It is now safe to turn off your computer" on the monitor
<brobostigon> lol
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] How Natty CDs are distributed in the Ubuntu-ie LoCo - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/05/22/how-natty-cds-are-distributed-in-the-ubuntu-ie-loco/
<AlanBell> apparently our CDs should have arrived a couple of weeks ago, they didn't so I will find out what happened to them
<czajkowski> well lets not jump to alarm bells
<czajkowski> they go out in bunches
<apacketofsweets> or do they...
<czajkowski> I'm sure they'll arrive soon
<Pendulum> czajkowski: considering I've been hearing LoCo teams mention getting CDs for at least 2 weeks, I don't think an e-mail saying 'hey, it seems like a lot of other teams have gotten their CDs and I just wanted to make sure you'd received our order', is out of line
<czajkowski> oh i know
<AlanBell> Pendulum: where did you hear that?
<Pendulum> AlanBell: I can't remember. Just saw people talking about it at various points. Maybe in #ubuntu-locoteams
<apacketofsweets> has anybody managed to get a wireless modem working via USB? I seem to be having some trouble with my Three dongle. I've fiddled around with the network settings and even dnoe a little work in the terminal, but nothing. Anybody got an idea what could correct this issue?
<danfish> apacketofsweets: what's the actual model of the modem?
<apacketofsweets> it's a Huawei E5830
<danfish> I *think* that mounts as an external disk first
<apacketofsweets> Thanks, I'll go investigate!
<danfish> and you need to run somethink like usbmodeswitcher
<apacketofsweets> great, thanks
<Azelphur> anyone know how I'd go about debugging a hang on startup?
<Azelphur> it was working, then I installed Ubuntu desktop :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: computer startup?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Try starting without the splash/quiet options
<Azelphur> ok :p
<MartijnVdS> you should get a load of messages across the screen that way :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: it hangs at Starting NSM status monitor [ OK ]
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: what's that?
<Azelphur> no idea
<Azelphur> if it's at all relevant, I'm netbooting :p
<MartijnVdS> it's NFS-related
<MartijnVdS> No idea what is it though
<Azelphur> my netboot share is NFS
<Azelphur> fun
<MartijnVdS> never used that bit
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: probably a hostname lookup failure or something like that
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-22-151110_720x446_scrot.png
<penguin42> nfs root is a bit of a black art
 * penguin42 hasn't done it for a while
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: the pipefs bit might be related
<Azelphur> penguin42: maybe
<penguin42> Azelphur: How are you doing the root nfs - by passing root=/dev/nfs or by using an nfs mount in the initrd?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> DEFAULT vmlinuz-2.6.38-8-server root=/dev/nfs,rw initrd=initrd.img-2.6.38-8-server nfsroot=192.168.1.80:/nfsroot ip=dhcp rw
<Azelphur> maybe I should just try a fresh install of Ubuntu on the nfs drive
<penguin42> Azelphur: given the mumbling about nfsv4 you could try forcing the server down to nfsv3
<Azelphur> just got more messages, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-22-152031_720x446_scrot.png
<penguin42> Azelphur: Also, there are alternatives - I did have iscsi root working on lucid; but it's broken on natty
<Azelphur> took way more than 120 seconds for that to appear
<Azelphur> penguin42: it did actually work, I installed ubuntu-desktop and it went up the wall
<penguin42> hmm odd
<Azelphur> gonna try with a fresh installation of ubuntu desktop on /nfsroot
<penguin42> Azelphur: Looking at some notes, there is an option nfsrootdebug you can pass - not sure it will help
<penguin42> Azelphur: The other thought if you've just put ubuntu-desktop in is whether it's picked up networkmanager and it's doing something evil to your networking
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> penguin42: genius, your right.
<Azelphur> got it to boot now :D
<penguin42> yeh!
<Azelphur> a quick tweak in /etc/network/interfaces, and we're off.
 * Azelphur hugs penguin42
<penguin42> so how many of the machines have you got on so far?
<Azelphur> 1, now that I have netboot working we should bounce up to 4 pretty quickly :)
<Myrtti> hello dearies :-)
<Myrtti> and greetings from downtown San Francisco
<Pendulum> hiya Myrtti
<Myrtti> :-D
<DJones> Afternoon/Morning Myrtti
<daftykins> helloooo
<daftykins> ooh i've always wanted to visit SF
<DJones> As soon as SF was mentioned, it reminded me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P7_jSDF9yw
<daftykins> Michael Douglas was YOUNG!?
<AlanBell> o/ Myrtti
<Myrtti> daftykins: my second time here, were here last year
<Myrtti> well, not here to be precise
<Myrtti> but Bay area
<daftykins> neat
<daftykins> steal a muscle car and bounce and jump up and down the crazy hill streets yet? :>
<Myrtti> nah
<Myrtti> argh, need to stop munching candy popcorn
<Azelphur> Anyone got any ideas on this ATI problem? http://pastebin.com/mLYxgVFd
<daftykins> yep you own ATI
<daftykins> (sorry)
<MartijnVdS> [    18.649] (WW) fglrx(0): * kernel module (fglrx.ko) may be missing or incompatible *
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> don't use fglrx
<Azelphur> I need to use fglrx
<MartijnVdS> No, you don't.
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> this may go on for a long time
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: open driver can do opencl?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: does it need to?
<Azelphur> yes.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: in that case, install fglrx properly, and not half ;)
<Azelphur> I used jockey to install it
<MartijnVdS> did you also reboot?
<Azelphur> yes
<MartijnVdS> --> support@amd.com
<Azelphur> :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: try the Wiki :)
<daftykins> Azelphur: what changed between it working and not? or is it someones that hasn't yet worked?
<Azelphur> it hasn't yet worked :p
<MartijnVdS> what happens if you boot from disk instead of net?
<Laney> BAH
<MartijnVdS> Laney: ?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: the disk one works, it's the netbooted boxes I'm having issues with \o/
<Laney> deleted a git clone before i'd pushed the patches
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that should give you a clue where to search :)
<Azelphur> I see a difference, the main node has /lib/modules/2.6.38-8-generic/updates/dkms/fglrx.ko but the netboot ones don't
<Azelphur> guess I want the generic kernel :)
<MartijnVdS> why are you netbooting anyway?
<MartijnVdS> netboot = teh scarey
<Azelphur> got a few boxes
<Azelphur> is there any way I can force a manual dkms run?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: man dkms :)
<Azelphur> \o/
<ali1234> Azelphur: you may as well go gentoo, it's very netboot friendly and you might even save some power
<Azelphur> maybe
<dannyb> hello
 * daubers puts star wars on the telle
<brobostigon> which hnnel?
<MartijnVdS> "HDMI1"
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> Star Trel
<MartijnVdS> blah
<MartijnVdS> star trek: voy on sky atlantic..
<brobostigon> dont have that channel.
<MartijnVdS> neither do I
<MartijnVdS> I think
<brobostigon> ok.
<MartijnVdS> I have syfy though
<brobostigon> i dont, :(
<livingdaylight> I heard one can opt for regular gnome desktop at login, but don't see the option, anyone?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: On my current telly, it's actually AV1 :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Aww :(
<daubers> MartijnVdS: New telle at the end of the month though \o/ Finally banishing the last CRT in the house
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> hm, I need a new sports watch/heart-rate monitor/etc.
<MartijnVdS> this one's running out of battery
<daubers> Thought you where going to say it had a CRT in it then!
<daubers> Would have been most impressed
<MartijnVdS> (and the buttons don't like the 1.5 year worth of sweat/gunk-buildup :))
<livingdaylight> nice to be in Ubuntu classic again
<shauno> was about to ask if you found it yet :)  tricky bugger doesn't appear until you've already entered your username
<livingdaylight> shauno, yea, that's what threw me
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: grr, I just copied the (working) OS from the master node to the nfsroot
<Azelphur> and I still have the same issue
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: maybe it isn't finding the .ko early enough during  boot?
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: fglrx is loaded though :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: is the Xorg driver the same version as the kernel driver?
<Azelphur> how do I tell?
<MartijnVdS> dpkg -l?
<MartijnVdS> check Xorg.0.log for the version number?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: what package?
<MartijnVdS> the fglrx ones
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/Siy1809x
<MartijnVdS> [    20.835] (EE) fglrx(0): Not enough video memory to allocate primary surface (frame buffer).
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Is that all of Xorg.0.log?
<Azelphur> nope, lemme paste up the whole thing
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also, dpkg -l \*fglrx\*
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/81XHi8CG
<MartijnVdS> [    20.824] (II) fglrx(0): Kernel Module version matches driver.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: how much RAM do those cards ahve?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: 1GB
<Azelphur> they arn't weak cards
<MartijnVdS> No, but maybe they're too good? :)
<MartijnVdS> and this is after a clean install + jockey?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: this is an install that works direct from hdd :p
<Azelphur> and yea, this is with jockey, tempted to try a clean install though
<MartijnVdS> I'd file a bug
<Azelphur> I'll try completely fresh first :P
<penguin42> Azelphur: got a dmesg off that box?
<Azelphur> penguin42: http://paste.ubuntu.com/611531/
<penguin42> Azelphur: Was your local install with teh server kernel or generic?
<Azelphur> server
<penguin42> Azelphur: Is it a clash between the KMS stuff and commercial driver? the dmesg shows 1G video ram
<Azelphur> I have no idea
<penguin42> I've not tried the commercial drivers for a while, but you might try disabling kms
<Azelphur> I'mma give it a quick run with stock Ubuntu desktop
<penguin42> Azelphur: Ah there's an error in the dmesg
<Azelphur> then it has no excuse to not work :)
<Azelphur> oO, an error :o
<penguin42> Azelphur: Xorg:881 conflicting memory types c0000000-c1068000 uncached-minus<->write-combining       reserve_memtype failed 0xc0000000-0xc1068000, track write-combining, req write-combining        [fglrx:KCL_MEM_VM_MapRegion] *ERROR* remap_pfn_range failed
<Azelphur> fun, that looks very relevant
<penguin42> Azelphur: Check for a bios update on the motherboard
<Azelphur> will do if it persists with a stock install
<penguin42> it's also possible that grub doing the video mode switching is somehow getting something initialised that the netboot process isn't
<Azelphur> penguin42: another fun idea :p
<Azelphur> penguin42: think I found out part of the problem, my nfs clients can't set permissions on the server.
<Azelphur> that's no doubt causing some breakage \o/
<penguin42> Azelphur: Add no_root_squash to the export line on the server
<Azelphur> penguin42: I already have that \o/
<penguin42> hmph
<Azelphur>  /nfsroot        *(rw,no_root_squash,async,insecure,no_subtree_check)
<penguin42> yeh that looks OK
<Azelphur> but when I use cp -ax to the nfs share it spams "cp: failed to preserve ownership for <file>: invalid argument
<Azelphur> penguin42: sounds like switching to nfsv3 like you said would be a good idea :D
<Azelphur> although I'm not sure on how to switch to it
<gord> awesome, my router password magically changed
<Azelphur> gord: love it when that happens :D
<gord> its like it asking me to replace it
<Azelphur> penguin42: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1598588 this looks like me :D
 * penguin42 goes
<penguin42> Azelphur: It could be NFSv4 ID mapping, it got clever - v3 and easier are pretty dumb
<penguin42> anyway, tv time
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nfs-utils/+bug/662711 yay, this is exactly what I'm having \o/
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 662711 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu) "NFS user/group mapping not working in 10.10" [Undecided,New]
<may88_> #openpandora
<may88_> nope! I'm a stupid IRC newbie!
<Azelphur> haha
<may88_> Hello world, Just installed xchat client
<AlanBell> hello may88_
<may88_> how do I get firebox to associate with xchat when I click on a link
<may88_> hello AlanBell
<AlanBell> hope someone else bids on the monitor I am winning on ebay at the moment
<gord> may88_, what happens when you click a link now?
<gord> AlanBell, stop going on ebay after you have had a few drinks ;)
<AlanBell> I put Â£25 on three different monitors in the hope that I might win one
<AlanBell> picked up two this evening, and there are 30 minutes before I win another
<gord> haha, oh dear
<may88_> gord: dialogue box saying firefox doesn't know what to run for IRC.
<nigelb> AlanBell: what! isn't 25 GBP cheap?
<gord> may88_, is that what it actually says? can you screenshot it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Are they LCD? What size/res?
<AlanBell> nigelb: yeah, got one for Â£15 with some scratches, one Â£20 pretty much mint and the other is Â£21 at the moment
<AlanBell> LCD 17 inch 1280x1024
<nigelb> wow
<TheOpenSourcerer> VGA/DVI?
<nigelb> AlanBell: well, you can use it at events with an arm board connected :p
<AlanBell> the ones I got today have VGA and DVI
<nigelb> just to display schedule or tweets or something
<gord> AlanBell, get another one, have them in a 2x2 config, create the super monitor.
<gord> i mean, in for a penny in for a pound
<AlanBell> :)
<may88_> Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (irc) isn't associated with any program.
<gord> and evidence shows you'll have a hard time selling the spares...
<may88_> Firefox doesn't seem to allow you to add an association and I can't find anything under the System menu (yet)
<gord> ahh so the problem is you are clicking irc:// links
<gord> they should open in firefox okay
<AlanBell> may88_: preferences, applications, find content type irc, use the action dropdown
<may88_> irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/openpandora
<may88_> indeed
<may88_> but they don't
<may88_> I don't have an IRC application listed  under Prefs->applications
<AlanBell> odd
<AlanBell> I have, it is offering to open them in mibbit
<gord> i would guess its something that gets installed with the application, maybe xchat doesn't install one?
<may88_> maybe it's the way I installed it.
<may88_> just selected the package from synaptic PM.
<may88_> Seem to be no option in xchat to associate itself either.
<may88_> Is Xchat the best option for Ubuntu in your opinions?
<may88_> Bitchx seems to popular but I could not find that in the repo
<gord> xchat isn't the default that we ship, i use it - but others prefer others, its down to taste really
<gord> if its not in the repo's you shouldn't use it without a very good reason (tm)
<may88_> I know no different atm.  Ignorance is bliss.
<AlanBell> it is in .mozilla/firefox/<random string>/mimeTypes.rdf
<may88_> just need to suss how to hack the file association list... off to try a file manager
<may88_> ^okay - I'll look there. Cheers
<AlanBell> who broke paste.ubuntu.com??
<AlanBell> "PHP and other Web scripts are not allowed"
<AlanBell> well what is the *point* of it if you can't paste useful stuff!
<AlanBell> may88_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/611553/
<AlanBell> that is it, but without <?xml version="1.0"?> at the top because paste.ubuntu.com is being silly
<AlanBell> line 19 is the irc association
<may88_> thanks as I don't speak XML fluently. :p
<AlanBell> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320696483611 I am full of win
<popey> eww 1280x1024
<AlanBell> better than 1024x768
<popey> debateable âº
<AlanBell> well I now have 4 17 inch monitors for my kids
<popey> haha
<AlanBell> and 3 kids
<Hornet-> so 1.333333333 monitors each?
<AlanBell> and one of them has a laptop anyhow that doesn't need a monitor
<AlanBell> one can go to mum & dad, they have a 15 inch 1024x768 at the moment
<popey> hmm, I'll buy one off you
<popey> save you wasting
<popey> if you want
 * dutchie looks at 23" sat in corner waiting for a suitable computer
<AlanBell> I might be able to rearrange things in a useful way
<popey> ok, well if you have one spare, let me know
<AlanBell> actually I like having a 4:3 monitor to use on the output of my projector
<AlanBell> I will keep the Â£15 one with the bad scratches for that I think
 * popey notes 1280x1024 isnt 4:3 âº
<popey> its 5:4
<popey> which is why it sucks
<MartijnVdS> you could leave black bars
<MartijnVdS> like TVs do
<AlanBell> hmm, interesting
<AlanBell> I will try one through the projector and see what happens
<popey> (hence why I said eww 1280x1024 in the first place)
<AlanBell> works just fine
<AlanBell> 1024x768 fills the screen, guess the aspect ratio is slightly wrong when it does that
<popey> yeah, you get oblong pixels
<AlanBell> good enough for that purpose
<gord> hrm, if you use apt-cache but upgrade a bunch of stuff at the same time, do they all pull the same cached content or does the cache only kick in once a file has been downloaded once
<DJones> This bloke has had too much time on his hands http://www.peaceman.de/blog/index.php/lego-technic-super-8-movie-projector Now what did I do with my lego
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: That's great - I've just sent that link to my 10yr old Lego mad son. But I had to explain what a projector was too...
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Heh, I wondered what would prompt somebody to think of building anything like that
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes in search of some strong liquor to take to bed as he continues "The girl who kicked the Hornet's nest"
<may88_> AlanBell: thanks for your help.  Not working but errors differently.  Giving up for now.
<kkitano> yzom
 * popey wonders what JamesTait is doing in Argentina
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-14
<popey> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> You're up late AlanBell ;-)
<popey> hah
<TheOpenSourcerer> afternoon popey
<popey> i was knackered yesterday but managed to sleep all night on and off
<popey> will be drinking lots of coffee today
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's pretty good going
<popey> didnt sleep at all on the plane â¹
 * TheOpenSourcerer ponders the possible lack of coffee, milk and mugs at our new office.
<popey> oh, first day in there?
 * TheOpenSourcerer recommends the use of 2 Melatonin tablets & a large Bourbon & Coke for travelling Eastwards
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is indeed.
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I think I have too many mugs in the cupboard, I can bring a few
<TheOpenSourcerer> Same here.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We do not have a problem with lack of mugs
<AlanBell> perhaps we should get some branded libertus mugs
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not today though.
<popey> AlanBell: had much of a play with RPi?
 * TheOpenSourcerer is making the most of various cloud services to sync a well used desktop and a not so well used laptop. Dropbox, Firefox Sync, Chrome Sync, Ubuntu One...
<AlanBell> popey: booted it up into debian, not really decided what to do with it
 * popey reboots his btrfs server
 * popey crosses fingers
<TheOpenSourcerer> gosh.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is btrfs safe yet?
<popey> safe ish
<MartijnVdS> I don't have problems with it
<MartijnVdS> I don't use the RAID bits though
 * popey has 8x2TB drives in a RAID1 array
<MartijnVdS> popey: You rich man you :)
<popey> haha
<popey> i bought most of the disks before they got spendy
<Knightwise> morning
<DJones> Morning all
<Knightwise> hey DJones
<DJones> How do Knightwise
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> popey: 8x2TB in RAID1? Surley you'd be better in RAID 5? (or at least RAID 10)
<popey> daubers: why?
<daubers> RAID 1 (as just a mirror) surely means you're losing 4 drives of capacity there for only redundant benefit
<popey> i dont think btrfs does raid5 yet
<daubers> Ah, you're using btrfs as your raid provider.... brave move
<popey> yeah, everyone says that
<daubers> :)
 * daubers tends to stick to mdadm and xfs
<Knightwise> morning daubers , popey
<Knightwise> popey, i spammed your mailbox this morning
<popey> heh, join the queue! :D
<MooDoo> hello all
<christel> good morning
<Knightwise> popey: just wanted to see if you where free for an interview for wednesday
<MooDoo> morning christel <3
<Knightwise> good morning christel
<popey> Knightwise: not sure, maybe.
<popey> we have our oggcamp call on wednesday nights usually
<MooDoo> oggcamp o/ :)
<popey> need to catch up on stuff first
<MooDoo> my first oggcamp :)
<Knightwise> popey: no worriez , please let me know as soon as you are sure
<popey> k
<AlanBell> hello from the offices of Libertus Solutions :)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: good morning, welcome from the new offices :)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: have you put pics of the new office online yet?
<AlanBell> not quite
<AlanBell> might do a google plus hangout from the office later
<MooDoo> yay.....damn i'm at work.
<Daviey> AlanBell: wait, no moving in party?
<christel> AlanBell: woop! happy new office day!
<AlanBell> I think a party may be in order at some point
<MooDoo> ROADTRIP :) lol
<Daviey> AlanBell: \o/
<Knightwise> hmm..
<Knightwise> we just got a new CEO
<Knightwise> they call him "admiral damocles"
<MooDoo> Knightwise: good or bad thing?  or too early to tell
<Knightwise> Bad thing i'm afraid
<MooDoo> Knightwise: bugger....time to move on?
<AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1949701861.png oh yeah :)
<Knightwise> nope , i'll be safe where i am here MooDoo , at least i hope so
<Knightwise> if he decides to keep me , i"m pretty happy where i am
<MooDoo> Knightwise: fingers crossed then.
<MooDoo> we got bought out few months ago
<AlanBell> someone want to ring 08443576000?
<AlanBell> we think it should make the phones ring
<MooDoo> ringing
<MooDoo> well that works then :)
<AlanBell> it works \o/
<MooDoo> AlanBell: voip?
<DJones> AlanBell: New offices?
<AlanBell> yes
<MooDoo> "it needs an hour to activate, 20 mins later, it's not working why?" - SIGH BIG SIGHS!
 * dwatkins is reminded to call BT and cancel his 18 month contract
<dwatkins> finally, the time has come...
<MooDoo> dwatkins: what you moving to?
<dwatkins> MooDoo: BeThere
<Knightwise> i wish i could hop onto the "sl" train and get off on thursday :)
<hoover> hi folks
<MooDoo> hi hoover, sorry missed that :)
<MooDoo> Knightwise: "sl" train?
<MooDoo> well installed precise last night.   yay me o/
<Knightwise> MooDoo: correct :)
<Knightwise> type sl into your command line
<Knightwise> see what happens
<s-fox> o/
<MooDoo> Knightwise: must be going mental or missing the point lol command not found
<MooDoo> hi s-fox
<Knightwise> MooDoo: sudo apt-get install sl
<Knightwise> then hit sl in the command line
<AlanBell> choo choo
<AlanBell> sl looks like the view from our office window
<MooDoo> oh is this like the cow thing
<MooDoo> pmsl i like it :)
<popey> \o/ debian booted on raspberry pi
<MooDoo> yay
<dwatkins> I'm still waiting for mine, it appears RS are faster at delivering them than Farnell.
<MooDoo> welcome back popey :)
<s-fox> Hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you s-fox ?
<s-fox> Lacking caffeine :/
<MooDoo> s-fox: stop gabbin on here then and go get one ;)
<Knightwise> hey s-fox
<Knightwise> Anyone want to take a quick peek at the short review I did on Precise ?
<Knightwise> http://knightwise.com/kwtv-s3ep2-a-look-at-ubuntu-12-04-precise-pangolin/
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo
<s-fox> hmmm
<s-fox> did that
 * s-fox tries again...
<s-fox> Hello Knightwise
<MooDoo> Knightwise: lol what a cool videi :)
<s-fox> MooDoo,  i've had 2 cups of tea in the last 10 minutes. not kicked in yet :/
<s-fox> Any plans for the day ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: stay sane.
<MooDoo> s-fox: book the hotel for #oggcamp
<MooDoo> or i might do that tomorrow
<Knightwise> MooDoo: thanx ! :)
<Knightwise> I hope i didn't mess up the terminology
<MooDoo> Knightwise: did you use a hd video cam
<Knightwise> MooDoo: yep , a sony HD camcorder , (a pretty cheap one)
<MooDoo> Knightwise: nice :)
<s-fox> MooDoo,  why do it today when it can wait until tomorrow? ;)
<MooDoo> s-fox: just waiting to see if a friend can actally make it as well before i book the room
<Knightwise> MooDoo: I am pretty pleased with the episode , allthough the screencaptures could have been a little more crisp
<MooDoo> Knightwise: yeah i'll watch it properly tonight, you'll have to interview people as well [unless you're already doing so ] :)
<popey> how did you do the screen capture Knightwise ?
<Knightwise> I am :) i've been looking for an "ubuntu connaisseur" for a while to come on the next podcast edition of knightwise.com
<Knightwise> been haggling popey for ages :p
<MooDoo> Knightwise: don't forget the others ;)
<MooDoo> Knightwise: you going to #oggcamp?
<Knightwise> MooDoo: any suggestions of who else i might interview ? Want to do a talk about canonical ubuntu 12.04 and unity
<MooDoo> Knightwise: czajkowski davmor2 Daviey loads of people i could think of :)
<MooDoo> Knightwise: what about pleia2 as well?
<Knightwise> ah , thats interesting :)
<Knightwise> but i guess everyone is still at uds right ?
<MooDoo> Knightwise: didn't it finish friday?
<JamesTait> G'mornin' all! :)
<popey> Knightwise: no, we all flew back this weekend
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<Knightwise> ah popey interesting to know
<Knightwise> perhaps I would start asking czajkowski as a standby if your schedule is too tight ?
<JamesTait> MooDoo: o/
<Knightwise> i would like to have an ubuntu 12.04 related podcast this wednesday. :)
<Knightwise> So i need an expert :)
<s-fox> I knew cats could fly - http://i.imgur.com/joPOw.jpg
<MooDoo> Knightwise: s-fox would be another great person to interview as well.
<Knightwise> aha
<Knightwise> s-fox: Have you ever been on a podcast ?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<s-fox> Knightwise,  no
<Knightwise> you are an Ubuntu forum admin , right ?
 * Knightwise quickly Googles s-fox 
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: You internet stalker you
<s-fox> Knightwise,  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Silver_Fox
<Knightwise> MartijnVdS: Oh pipe down ! you are just jealous you can't be on the podcast :p
<Knightwise> s-fox: :) Way ahead of you
<s-fox> And +1 MartijnVdS
<Knightwise> Lol :) I AM a pesky stalker , but thats just because popey is playing hard to get :)
<MooDoo> Knightwise: well stop bugging people ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<s-fox> +1 MooDoo
<MooDoo> note the wink ;)
<Knightwise> hahah :)
<popey> hah
<Knightwise> popey: = the lady gaga of the uupc :) Open Source Rockstar Diva :p
<MooDoo> Knightwise: = the denis penis of interviewers ;) lol
<MooDoo> Knightwise: er are you old enough to know denis penis?
<Knightwise> MooDoo:  OH !
<MooDoo> Dennis Pennis
 * Knightwise storms off offended ;)
 * Knightwise is old enough to know the man in question.
<MooDoo> lol
 * Knightwise thinks of MooDoo as the "Triumph the insult dog" of this channel
<MooDoo> :D you're welcome
<MooDoo> Knightwise: i'll buy you a beer at oggcamp if you're goingl
<Knightwise> MooDoo: too busy being dennis pennis : http://www.flickr.com/photos/konradd/6278012700/in/photosof-knightwise/
<MooDoo> awesome :D
<Knightwise> MooDoo: oggcamp is a little far for a one day trip
 * Knightwise is belgian
<MooDoo> Knightwise: ah!
<Knightwise> MooDoo: my life is like the this star wars map with "you are here , all the fun stuff is over there"
<MooDoo> bummer :(
<Knightwise> yeah .. story of my life .. but thats what you get when you do an english website /screencast / podcast in a non english country
<daubers> POXY PARTED
<brobostigon> !info b;ender unstable
<lubotu3> Package bender does not exist in unstable
<brobostigon> !info blender unstable
<lubotu3> blender (source: blender): Very fast and versatile 3D modeller/renderer. In component main, is optional. Version 2.62-2 (unstable), package size 20929 kB, installed size 52579 kB
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning all you funky people and welcome home you UDS goers
<davmor2> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!
<MooDoo> davmor2: i've not heard from czajkowski this morning, damn her :)
<davmor2> yeah probably dying from ubuflu lots seemed to get it this time
<MooDoo> davmor2: we'll just have to keep prodding
<davmor2> MooDoo: well obviously cause that will make her feel much better :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes sir :)
<davmor2> popey: had a play with your Raspi yet
<MooDoo> davmor2: have you not seen his tweets?  booting debian on it :p
<popey> davmor2: it's booted to debian now
<davmor2> MooDoo: no I saw the one about it was here and that was as far as I got :)
<davmor2> popey: nice
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'll shut up then
<czajkowski> davmor2: herrrrro
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you're back!!!!!!!!!!! kiss kiss kiss kiss er oops lol ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: prodity prod
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's you?
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<czajkowski> that ^^
<davmor2> hahaha nevermind
<davmor2> prod
<MooDoo> czajkowski: prods too
<oimon> how do i install javaw on precise?
<oimon> does that require sun/oracle java?
<MooDoo> oimon: isn't it included in ubuntu-restricted-extras?
<popey> never heard of javaw
<dogmatic69> o/
<DJones> oimon: Is this relevant? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1714777
<DJones> Thee's a comment that "javaw" is a windows file javaw.exe
<oimon> ah thanks. it's a hideous IBM documentation CD. the linuxinstall.sh is clearly wrong
<oimon> works now using java, and fixing the paths
<Laney> :O
<Laney> getting very close to bug #1000000
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1000000 could not be found
<Laney> less than 1000 left now
<oimon> by "works" i mean it starts the app, but the app is broken, i can't believe java is requird to read pdfs
<MartijnVdS> oimon: evince \o/
<MartijnVdS> oimon: but it's IBM, they're in love with Java
<awilkins> Annoyed... two hard lockup crashes today from Compiz prettiness. Wondering if I should switch to the Nvidia hardware on this Optimus laptop instead of sticking with the Intel
<awilkins> Also a lot of little bursts of slow performance that seem to coincide with kworker/3:1 processes hogging a whole CPU core for a few seconds, more or less regularly (every 5-10 seconds)
<awilkins> v. noticable since I installed about 2-3 weeks of deferred upgrades last night ; even typing here, my output is lagging behind my keyboard.
<MartijnVdS> intel > nvidia, stability-wise
<MartijnVdS> at least, here at the office
<popey> yeah, me too
 * AlanBell starts an office hangout on G+
<awilkins> Yeah, I thought that too, and also that it would consume less power and make the fans hum less (it's an aircraft-carrier scale laptop, so it stays on it's docking station most of time)
<awilkins> The kworker thing is annoying me much more now
<awilkins> Music keeps skipping and keyboard lagging
<awilkins> Seems to be every 10 seconds, very regular graph on the system monitor
<awilkins> It seemsto be bound to one CPU core (does kworker/3:1 imply core 3, thread 1?
<davmor2> AlanBell: Congrats on the office space :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<gord> its a little weird that my local council website has a "Win an IPAD2!" thing giant on its online tax thing... i get that they want to get people doing it online, but it just makes it look shady
<bigcalm> That it does
<bigcalm> Are competitions a form of gambling?
<gord> not if anyone can enter
<bigcalm> Anybody can enter the National Loto
<daubers> bigcalm: Unless you're under 16
<gord> no, you have to pay a pound, that is your enter fee
<gord> thats why coke cans or whatever always have "no purchase necessary"
<bigcalm> gord: and so paying your taxes is also a fee
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> daubers: people under 16 don't pay tax
<popey> they do, VAT
<popey> ITYM income tax
<bigcalm> Ok, I'm referring to the point in hand about income tax returns
 * bigcalm awards popey 1 pedant point
<bigcalm> Doughnuts for lunch again. Hayley is going to kill me
<MooDoo> bigcalm: don't tell her lol
<bigcalm> MooDoo: better halves have a way of finding out
<MooDoo> bigcalm: oh i know that
<brobostigon> how would i video, something, from within a game?
<popey> how do you mean?
<bigcalm> Point a camera at the screen?
<brobostigon> popey: i want to create a sequence to show someone, of something i have built in minetest, like a video tour.
<popey> kazam
<popey> !info kazam
<lubotu3> kazam (source: kazam): Easy to use application for recording on-screen action. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.6-0ubuntu1 (precise), package size 94 kB, installed size 824 kB
<brobostigon> thank you popey :)
<imexil> Hi folks
<MooDoo> imexil: hiya
<imexil> anyone good at hunting down update related configure hickups?  A recent update of a server produced this here http://paste.debian.net/plain/168727
<popey> that doesnt look like ubuntu
<imexil> So some of the python scripts called by the post installation routine seem to cause compile error
<MooDoo> debian by the look of it
<imexil> popey: :-P
<brobostigon> !info kazam unstable
<lubotu3> Package kazam does not exist in unstable
<popey> well, why not ask in the debian support channel?
<imexil> well I found a pretty similar bug on lp #955386
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 955386 in python-defaults (Ubuntu Precise) "regression: byte compiling failure on upgrade from lucid" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/955386
<brobostigon> popey: i am just going to boot my sdhc of ubuntu :)
<imexil> I thought one might know a good way of hunting down the offending script that is causing such a Type Error
<imexil> (and that should not matter if Debian or Ubuntu :) )
<MooDoo> it's oh so quiet......
<SuperMatt> hi hi
<dutchie> anyone have any experience with hostapd/dnsmasq?
<dutchie> my network has stopped working :(
 * SuperMatt decides to take his life in his hands and sign up to the ubuntu-uk mailing list
<SuperMatt> every time I do this, I get annoyed
<SuperMatt> too many emails to ignore, etc :P
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: filter them, works for me
<SuperMatt> yarr, I know
<SuperMatt> but filtering means missing something that might actually be important :P
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: ubuntu uk mailing list??  i think you'll be safe ;)
<DJones> Just ignore anything that talks about top/bottom/random posting
<DJones> That'll leave you with 2 emails a month
<SuperMatt> hah
<gord> ubuntu one deleted all my ~/Ubuntu One/ :(
<gord> thats the *opposite* of what its supposed to do :(
<dutchie> oh, i'm an idiot
<dutchie> need net.ipv4.ip_forward=1
<SuperMatt> see, thing is, I want to part of the ubuntu experience, but I don't think I really have any of the right skills :(
<dutchie> ./fqq
<dutchie> oops
<dutchie> wrong window
<dutchie> :q
<dutchie> sigh
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: why not?
<popey> gord: oops
<popey> thats double plus ungood
<gord> it made my laptop delete the contents of the directory too, so i can't get it back from there either
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: can't code, can't design :P
<SuperMatt> got turned down for a system support job at canonical too :'(
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: me neither, next excuse ;)
<SuperMatt> woe is me
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: what do you do then, to help?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: popey is looking for people for the ubuntu manual project.
<SuperMatt> oooh
<MooDoo> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: i help here, my friends who use ubuntu, i suggest ubuntu when people want alternatives to windows and i also bug the hell outa davmor2 and czajkowski
 * davmor2 beats MooDoo with a wet lettuce leaf
<MooDoo> davmor2: thank you kind sir :)
<czajkowski> leemie lone sleepy
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: have you seen this page?  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/get-involved
<SuperMatt> I have
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: plenty of ways to get involved, just pick one that interests you :D
<directhex> best way to get involved is doing .net stuff. obviously
<directhex> other ways are for dweebs
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> .net, that's weaving isn't it?
<davmor2> directhex: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA     HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.........
 * czajkowski stabs gord 
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oh not too sleepy to stab people then :p
<directhex> i'm half amused & half tired by how dedicated people are to the goal of not attracting users & developers to ubuntu unless they drop their existing apps & language, and retrain in today's language du jour
<directhex> if anyone thinks i packaged a vb.net compiler because i think it's a good language, they're mistaken
<SuperMatt> I'm very tired of the whole "Your distribution isn't *exactly* how I want it, so I hate you" approach some people take with linux
<SuperMatt> one slashdot comment I read about ubuntu the other day was "why do the devs keep wasting their time on pretty icons and not fixing bugs? no one asked for pretty icons"
<MooDoo> if you're distro works for you, then it's fab.
<SuperMatt> my response is always "no, you didn't ask for them, I fucking love them"
<AlanBell> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<MooDoo> rats beat me to irt
<SuperMatt> ah yes, sorry Alan
<AlanBell> tut tut and all that :)
<Laney> nothing like a good swear
<MooDoo> AlanBell: you get back to your new shiney office with new phones you
<hamitron> I guess those that are content with things and not picky, just stick with the OS that came with their PC
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> MooDoo: it is nice here
<hamitron> so linux is bound to attract a fair number of people like that
<MooDoo> AlanBell: ah shut it ;)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: why did you move out of interest?  just outgrown your old premises?
<AlanBell> we were both working from home
<SuperMatt> whois popey
<MooDoo> AlanBell: that would explain it then, twitter account looks busy ;)
<SuperMatt> oops, there was supposed to be a / there
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: knowbosy knows who he is, it's a mystery
<SuperMatt> hah
<MooDoo> but he does wear flower hawian shirts at UDS :)
<AlanBell> this is true https://twitter.com/#!/czajkowski/status/201158284663734273
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> that's the one
<TheOpenSourcerer> zomg!
<MooDoo> It's not that bright TheOpenSourcerer ;)
<AlanBell> we were just trying to blend in with the california vibe
<MooDoo> AlanBell: it worked...wouldn't have known you were brits ;)
<davmor2> AlanBell: looking at that photo you would think that people called Alan were all demonic
<MooDoo> i'm glad you spotted that as well davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's all in the eyes you know :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: maybe there is a Cult Of Alan after all
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans
<AlanBell> that needs an "in popular culture" section
<davmor2> MooDoo: that or we find out that the AL of Alan is actually short for Alien
<MooDoo> davmor2: oooooooooo :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: the only issue is the cult of Alan would make the followers Alists but that would mean to the Top celebs would join just so they can keep their Alisting surely
 * TheOpenSourcerer recalls how lucky he is to hold the domain "thealans.com" ;-)
<filo1234> hgi all
<filo1234> hi*
<MooDoo> davmor2: http://paulmellors.homeip.net/alans.jpg
<davmor2> MooDoo: nice
<MooDoo> explains it a bit more :D
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: you forgot the glare on the green ones eyes though :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah well i only had a few seconds to knock that one up....lol
<DJones> MooDoo: So which one of the Alan's isn't wearing the hawaian shirt then
<MooDoo> :D
<AlanBell> well I think we looked rather dashing ;)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: beer goggles again?
<davmor2> AlanBell: yeah dashing that's the word I was after.....that or really touristy :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: touristy spelt rat ars**ed
<davmor2> MooDoo: I blame the american electric system being too low, it means the lighting it lower so you grab the brightest thing you can out of the wardrobe when your in a hurry :D
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Precision and Reliability in Ubuntu Accomplishments - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/14/precision-and-reliability-in-ubuntu-accomplishments/
<MooDoo> davmor2: i blame czajkowski
<davmor2> MooDoo: what are you trying to insinuate
<MooDoo> davmor2: anything that insults czajkowski , i'm going to make it up at oggcamp, i owe her a beer anyway
<davmor2> MooDoo: I found prodding her on the upper arm in the exact same place for a week annoyed her the most if that helps
<MooDoo> davmor2: noted
<davmor2> MooDoo: At least czajkowski whined at me for ages cause of it :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: oooo maybe i'll try it.....bugging the hell out of her, is fun :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: coming on Thursday?
<bigcalm> gord: mrevell: ^^
<davmor2> bigcalm: I am
<bigcalm> Goodo
<bigcalm> Daviey: hi, btw
<bigcalm> Erm
<davmor2> bigcalm: hello you on holiday or somint
<bigcalm> davmor2: hi, btw
<bigcalm> davmor2: nope, up to my eye balls in code
<davmor2> bigcalm: raise your seat you'll only be upto your chin in code then :D
<MooDoo> bigcalm: delegate :)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: delegate to myself? Good idea!
<davmor2> bigcalm: yes, bigcalm here, here is what I want you to do bigcalm
<bigcalm> Humm, if only I had a cat
<bigcalm> Goodness me: http://gizmodo.com/5909961/kodak-had-a-secret-weapons+grade-nuclear-reactor-hidden-in-a-basement
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: coooooooooool
<bigcalm> Makes me want to play Portal 2 for some reason
<davmor2> bigcalm: delegate it all to nyancat
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> bigcalm: it should make the coding much quicker, you just redirect every link to nyancat and done :D
<gord> bigcalm, not this week, i need a sit down and not go anywhere at all week
<bigcalm> \o/
<davmor2> gord: wuss ;) anyone would think you missed jolly old England
<bigcalm> gord: boo. We'll have to get you on a g+ hangout
<MooDoo> bigcalm: http://wtfcontent.com/img/130200984547.jpg
<bigcalm> MooDoo: haha
<gord> please erect a small shrine in my absence
 * bigcalm has now lost interest in the day
<bigcalm> Maybe I should jump start it with a shower
<MooDoo> bigcalm: BACON!
<davmor2> gord: Yeah we'll all bring the worlds worse sweets and stack them in a pile for you
<bigcalm> MooDoo: bacon is frozen
<davmor2> bigcalm: jono is in the sunny states so now I know you're lying
<bigcalm> o.O
<DJones> microwave the bacon, then grill it
 * bigcalm kippers davmor2
<bigcalm> I'm not actually hungry
 * hamitron is now
<MooDoo> me too
<davmor2> bigcalm: is ill news at 15:59
<bigcalm> HA!
 * daubers tries not to fall asleep
<daubers> LET THERE BE COFFEE
 * davmor2 prods daubers
<shauno> I'm more in favour of getting 3pm naps recognised :)
<dogmatic69> anyone else have issues with icons not showing in the launch bar? when I open gimp 2.8 the icon flashes up then disappears. Also does not show in alt-tab popup
<SuperMatt> I've certainly had things not turn up in alt-tab and the icons go missing
<SuperMatt> yup, just dropped gimp in the launcher and it's just blank
<popey> how did you install gimp dogmatic69 ?
<popey> heh, nvm, the version in the repo does it too
<popey> bug 995916
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 995916 in unity (Ubuntu) "No launcher icon or Alt+Tab entry for Gimp windows" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995916
<AlanBell> offspring wants some smart notebook software that they use at school
<AlanBell> and they have debian packages \o/
<AlanBell> http://smarttech.com/gb/Support/Browse+Support/Download+Software
<Daviey> ccccccbfuigutvrdrveduubknlhdktklugecdlnldlir
<Daviey> oops
<AlanBell> did you just trip over the cable?
<bigcalm> That's going to be my next minecraft map seed
<dogmatic69> popey: i added a ppa
<Daviey> bigcalm: i'll seed your map!
<dogmatic69> popey: nice, it was fine for a few days on 2.8. this is started the other day
<dwatkins> cat-like typing detected!
 * dwatkins wonders if there's an Ubuntu equivalent of the 'PawSense' application, which locks the screen when the cat walks across the keyboard
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo>  
<MooDoo>  
<MooDoo>  
<davmor2> Muhahahahahhahahaha never be evil to frog people http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTZiVu5Pxjg&feature=fvwp&NR=1
<MartijnVdS> hm
<MartijnVdS> I spent a LOT of money at Rough Trade East last week :|
<MartijnVdS> Record Stores are BAD for me ;)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you just weren't trying to spend it, you should hit EXTORTIONATE levels before you can complain
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: :|
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: that should be a :) sure now you know you still have a goal to strive for?
<davmor2> s/sure/surely
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Not before I win the lottery :P
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: if you spend an extortionate amount of a lottery win in one then you're aiming for champ status :D
<popey> gord: did you get your data back?
<davmor2> popey: do you by chance make very heavy usage of lxc?
<popey> not very, but some
<popey> for juju
<popey> why davmor2 ?
<davmor2> I was having a play with it on my netbook of all things seems pretty cool
<mattt> evening
<Azelphur> woa, fancy new ubuntuforums look
<Azelphur> when did this madness happen
<jacobw> i really like this new server guide
<jacobw> https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/index.html
<Nafallo> why?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Liam Proven] Could anyone offer a bit of Linuxy advice, please? - http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/29300.html
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yesterday, I think.. I saw a tweet about it
<Azelphur> fun
<MartijnVdS> Ars Technica also has a new look, it seems
<gord> popey, yup, turns out it moves deleted files to the recycle bin, but helpful u1 folks just restored from their servers for me anyway :)
<popey> heh
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Community Accomplishments Collection 0.1.1 Released - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/14/ubuntu-community-accomplishments-collection-0-1-1-released/
<bigcalm> Which CD ripper do people use these days?
<popey> cant recall last time I ripped a cd
<bigcalm> Sound juicer rings a bell
<Laney> banshee
<bigcalm> You are biased :)
<popey> i read that as blessed :D
<bigcalm> Careful now
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-15
<dogmatic69> any way to rm ./ -<only_symlinks>
<dogmatic69> rm `find ./ -type l`
<directhex> find . -type l -exec rm -f {} \;
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Accomplishing An Awesome App Developer Platform - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/15/accomplishing-an-awesome-app-developer-platform/
<Knightwise> Morning everyone
<Nafallo> morning
<popey>  /25
<popey> bah!
<popey> (morning)
<Nafallo> popey: /script load go.pl
<DJones> Morning all
<DJones> AlanBell: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/15/punjab_ubuntu_free_laptops_students/ 125,000 free laptops being given out with a further 300,000 planned for 2013
<daubers> Morning
<Knightwise> hey daubers
<Knightwise> how are you today
<TOShrun> morning from the head office of Libertus Solutions ;-)
<daubers> Knightwise: Almost awake!
<daubers> TOShrun: Got interwebs now?
<daubers> Knightwise: How goes things?
<Knightwise> doing well, just landed a ubuntu legend for tomorrows interview on knightwise.com :)
<daubers> Cool :)
<DJones> I don't know why, when somebody is described as a "Legend", my brain always see's it as "Leg End" and makes me think of somebody who's less than useful :)
<TOShrun> daubers: We haz fast interwebs... ~75Mbps/4Mbps
<Knightwise> DJones: i beg to differ :p and so does popey
<DJones> Heh
<hoover> morning all
<daubers> TOShrun: FTTC?
<TOShrun> Infinity I believe
<MooDoo> hello all
<czajkowski> aloha
<TOShrun> Unity has just decided to reset my monitor displays to 640x480. And I can't find the launcher - jeez I really am getting fed up with it.
<diplo> Morning all
<TOShrun> great - unity --replace hasn't fixed it. better log out and back in again. *&%(Y&*&&*^*(Y
<popey> its not unity --replace
<popey> it's unity --reset
<popey> AlanBell: tell him
<popey> 08:49:54 < popey> its not unity --replace
<popey> 08:49:57 < popey> it's unity --reset
<popey> 08:50:00 < popey> AlanBell: tell him
<popey> and it's unlikely it was unity which changed the resolution
<TOShrun> gah - it shouldn't happen
<popey> possibly compiz, but also unlikely
<TOShrun> Something broke.
<popey> what sequence of events led to that?
<popey> plugging external monitor in?
<TOShrun> I moved a window from one screen to the other
<popey> what video card?
<TOShrun> internal icore3
<TOShrun> laptop model
<popey> got your ~/.xsession-errors and/or /var/log/Xorg.0* handy?
<TOShrun> hang on a mo.
<TOShrun> I have popey. Where would you like them?
<popey> pastebin or something?
<TOShrun> OK hang on.
 * TOShrun installs pastebinit
<TOShrun> Xorg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/988534/
<TOShrun> xsession http://paste.ubuntu.com/988535/
<ali1234> yep, it's definitely messed up
<TOShrun> lol
<oimon> wha's the shortcut to lock the screen in the newest ubuntu?
<TOShrun> Can I completely separate two monitors in Unity - so that when I move around my 4 workspaces on one screen it doesn't move around on the other monitor at the same time?
<Azelphur> oimon: is it not ctrl+alt+L?
<Azelphur> TOShrun: yes, what GPU do you have?
<oimon> Azelphur, yes, it is thanks
<TOShrun> just a intel internal Core i3 jobby
<oimon> (took a long time to happen, but it did in the end)
<TOShrun> on my laptop
<Azelphur> TOShrun: ah, not sure how to do it on Intel, you can do it in xorg.conf if there are no GUI options, you are looking for separate X screens though
<Azelphur> separate X screens are totally separate, you can't even drag windows between them
<ali1234> separate workspaces like you want are (would be) part of compiz
<Azelphur> ali1234: lies? compiz doesn't support xinerama workspaces
<TOShrun> I tried what seemed like the right sounding setting yesterday but it didn't seem to have any effect.
<ali1234> xinerama is irrelevant
<ali1234> workspaces are provided by the window manager
<ali1234> compiz can't do what you want, but it is because compiz sucks
<JamesTait> Good morning, everyone! :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: afaik it needs input redirection :P
<ali1234> gnome shell is a little bit closer like you want... you only get workspaces on the primary monitor and all the others effectively have 1 workspace that never changes
<Azelphur> ali1234: rofl that sounds terrible
<ali1234> yes, it is
<ali1234> however, it is closer to what some people want than what compiz does
<TOShrun> hmm. ok thanks for the input. Guess it is a no then.
<Azelphur> TOShrun: only advice I have for you is separate X screens, I use separate X screens myself so I know it's the answer to your question, just dunno how to do it on anything but nvidia :P
<TOShrun> ok
<TOShrun> ty
<ali1234> seperate X screens is the worst of the lot. as mentioned, you cannot move windowws between monitors if you do that
<Azelphur> ^ that + a lot of applications are buggy
<ali1234> again, workspace management has nothing to do with X, it is a window manager function
<ali1234> if window manager does not provide it the way you want, blame window manager :/
<Azelphur> oh yea, you could find a window manager that supports it properly
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> I may be in need of one myself sometime soon
<ali1234> i don't know of any that actually do it
<ali1234> gnome shell is probably the closest
<ali1234> kwin probably does it, it does everything
<Azelphur> superuser.com says There are a number of tiling WMs which will do this (Awesome3, scrotwm, Xmonad, probably dwm and wmii), and you can configure a *box (Open/Flux) to do this. Not aware of a way to do it in KDE or GNOME, at least not easily.
<Azelphur> o.O
<ali1234> also keyboard short cut to lock screen is probably click desktop then alt l o c k  s c r e e n <enter>
<ali1234> yeah but tiling WM are horrible to use
<gord> my keyboards have lock screen function keys
<ali1234> would be nifty if the key on G19 to turn off the backlight and screen also turned off the main monitors
 * Azelphur would be happy if his G19 didn't continually randomly turn itself off
 * Azelphur stabs logitech
<ali1234> then again, that also could be potentially really annoying since i like to turn that stuff off when watching a movie or something
<ali1234> i thought you were going to go maplins and get a new PSU?
<Azelphur> I did
<Azelphur> didn't fix it :<
<ali1234> well there isn't anything in it that could fail like that
<Azelphur> I'll have to video it for you so you can see exactly what happens, then maybe you'll have an idea \o/
<ali1234> "it just turns off" what else is there to know?
<Azelphur> sometimes it boot loops too
<Azelphur> the logitech logo will appear on the screen, and then it'll turn off, rinse and repeat
<ali1234> i think it's your computer
<Azelphur> :<
<ali1234> it doesn't it have a history of killing USB devices?
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> My g13 works fine so does my piano
<ali1234> what about that arduino?
<Azelphur> I'm semi-convinced that was just a software issue
<ali1234> well there is simply nothing on the circuit board that can fail like that
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> test it while not plugged in to computer
<ali1234> you will probably need to add a serial port to do that
<Azelphur> bit difficult to do that, it only tends to fail while I'm using it and it usually takes a couple days of uptime to go weird
<ali1234> or test it on another computer
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-Series-Gaming-Keyboards/g19-restarts-itself/m-p/432636/highlight/true#M10771 is sorta interesting
<Azelphur> I tried turning off EHCI, but I dunno if there's a ubuntu equiv to sideshow devices
<ali1234> sideshow devices means those little LCD on the outside of the laptop
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> second page is interesting, they blame a phone
<Azelphur> I should test that
<ali1234> i have never seen any problems and i have uptimes of several weeks usually
<Azelphur> do you usually have a mobile phone right next to your keyboard
<ali1234> yes, three actually
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> maybe not that then :)
<MooDoo> pah i've just smashed the screen on mine
<Azelphur> MooDoo: ooops :x
<ali1234> if you count the ones not switched on there's 5
<ali1234> also a n800
<MooDoo> Azelphur: yup pain in the neck
<ali1234> who knows though, they may have done different circuit board revs
<ali1234> or you might be further from the base station than me (thus your phone is yelling and mine is not)
<Azelphur> I may well be pretty far from a base station
<ali1234> putting phone on keyboard, sending yourself a text and then watching it crash seems pretty conclusive to me
<Azelphur> I'll test it tomorrow \o/
<Azelphur> I've had it crash a couple times when I put my phone on the keyboard, I was sorta tempted to say it was vibration, but maybe it's interference
<ali1234> well that's easy to test
 * AlanBell has the same exact laptop as TOShrun and doesn't have unity hating me so much with multimonitor in 12.04
<TOShrun> But AlanBell has beaten it into submission. I'm a newbie
<AlanBell> maybe it wore me down into compliance
<AlanBell> you have to go with the flow
<TOShrun> Ah - maybe. I am so used to gnome2 just working and not breaking. Guess I was spoiled. Progress eh?
<AlanBell> yup
<popey> yeah, GNOME 2 was 100% reliable for all of the last 7 years
<popey> no, wait, the other one
<ali1234> the worst part is that it only got reliable about 6 months before it was canned
<ali1234> thus 6.5 years of hard work just discarded
<AlanBell> unity is about ready for people to start testing it
<awilkins> Yegods, Eclipse p2 is depressingly slow
<TOShrun> 10.10 was great. It just worked. Always.
<ali1234> 10.10 was probably best release yet
<ali1234> pretty much since 11.04 i've been running exclusively +1
<ali1234> because it's less broken than the releases
<ali1234> which i suppose means they are at least improving
<SuperMatt> ali1234: I wouldn't say that 6.5 years of work was discarded. One would hope that a lot of the stable code, etc, was reused.
<ali1234> well the stable code that lives on in gnome 3 likely was around in gnome 1
<ali1234> so it's a lot older than 7 years or w/e
<SuperMatt> I would say that gnome 3 was exactly what was needed because I think that gnome 2 is hideously out of date and out of touch with what users want
<ali1234> nope. you are describing gnome 3
<Laney> ali1234 the user experience guru
<SuperMatt> people only cry out for gnome 2 because they've just got their desktops the way they want them and don't want to change
<ali1234> why is that a problem?
<ali1234> do i come to your house and rearrange your furniture?
<ali1234> put the TV behind the couch because "that's more efficient"
<ali1234> and then accuse you of just not wanting to change?
<SuperMatt> you do if I say "hey, I want the latest everything, and I'm happy to accept something off the shelf and have ikea do the work"
<Laney> it's alright, with all of the contributions he's putting into MATE we'll be fine.
<Laney> oh wait.
<SuperMatt> I also think that some people confuse workflow efficiency with tinkering efficiency. Sure, there are a lot of hidden options which are a bitch to get to, but when you're configured, you need to focus on how well you work, and gnome 3 and unity do that very well
<ali1234> hey, i thought ubuntu was supposed to be for human beings, not developers?
<TOShrun> Ah - tell that to Dell (Sputnik)
<Laney> i'll tell you one thing it is definitely not for: people who persistently complain without doing any of the work.
<TOShrun> oooh
<ali1234> uh, sorry
<ali1234> but if you want to make extra work by reinventing the whell, you can be damn sure i won't help you
<Laney> you'll just snipe
<Laney> we've established that
<ali1234> yes, i will
<Laney> we have also established that it won't change a thing
<Laney> so everyone's happy I guess
<SuperMatt> huzzah!
 * SuperMatt gets out the champagne
<ali1234> but hey, we already established that i don't like change, so i guess i should just carry on?
<MooDoo> ali1234: "keep calm and carry on" :)
<Laney> i think you should get involved with developing a system you like, rather than complaining about those you don't
<ali1234> why? i don't have time for developing desktops. why do you think i am using ubuntu?
<ali1234> it's because i am lazy
<Laney> well you've noticed that ubuntu isn't following your personal direction
<ali1234> yeah
<Laney> so ... I don't see what you can do if you're not willing to get involved?
<Laney> those who do the work get to make the decisions, that's how this stuff works
<ali1234> if i wasn't so lazy i would switch to something else
<diplo> I do like Unity, I just find it lacking somewhere, and I can't work out what.. I am really trying this time but when I installed Cinnamon I felt that it worked better from the outset
<diplo> I do feel the stability issues I've been having since Natty, and still somewhat into Precise have put me off A Lot
<SuperMatt> I'm quite enjoying unity. I know it has a bug or two (or many) but it's still a very well rounded application. Now is the time to start using it, forsure
<ali1234> i've explained this many times. your getting annoyed with my lack of willingness to help is the natural end result of making an OS targetted at "humans" - humans are lazy and don't want to do any work and just complain. so this whole conversation is in fact indicative of ubuntu's "success"
<diplo> My biggest issue/annoyanceat themo is the second app bar on secondary screen
<diplo> If I could remove that I would be happier
<popey> you can
<Laney> of course you can complain all you want, but that doesn't mean anyone has to listen to you
<directhex> unity today is less horrifically broken than shell is
<Laney> i think, as you seem to have a vision, that you would be happier if you tried to implement it
<diplo> oh, last time I asked it was only available to hide, havent checked recently
<directhex> and i've been deploying ubuntu with unity rather than shell, since i don't have the time to run studies on my users to see if they want shell instead
<popey> diplo: super -> display -> "Launcher Placement"
<ali1234> directhex: i absolutely agree
<diplo> directhex, I totally agree with that, it got so bad for me on 11.04 I gave up and used a different DE for 6-8 months
<diplo> ta
<directhex> there's still plenty not to like in unity, but it's at least usable
<diplo> popey, it sort of worked :)
<diplo> And more stable
<Laney> yeah, that it's not a tiling wm :(
<directhex> as a random example, shell absolutely does not function with multi-monitors stacked vertically
<directhex> especially with non-uniform sizes
<diplo> It's gone to my right ( Secondary screen )
<popey> thats my main dual-screen use-case
<popey> my monitor is behind my laptop
<popey> so i put one above the other
<directhex> popey, used shell?
<popey> no, thats verboten ;)
<ali1234> really? i wouldn't have thought it would make any difference at all, given that shell just ignores any monitor after the first
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> popey: where are the plenary videos from uds ?
<popey> youtube
<AlanBell> now that alt-tab works I am ok with unity
<directhex> ali1234, no, it doesn't. shell users are the majority in the office, and multi-monitor is very common. it almost works, except with vertical stacking
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/user/ubuntudevelopers
<AlanBell> czajkowski: they cut the good bits from Daviey's plenary
<ali1234> really? so you can have multiple workspaces on the secondary monitors now?
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<directhex> no, the workspace behaviour is braindead. iirc it only supports something like mirroring, or one fixed workspace on the second display
<directhex> not sure, i don't use multi monitor
<directhex> unity annoyances are mostly that dash is laughably slow compared to Do
 * popey goes back to bed with ubuflu
<czajkowski> popey: nn get well
<directhex> and a few apps confuse the hell out of the thing that tracks window parentage. bamf, is it?
<DJones> Should that not be UDSflu, rather than UBUflu
<SuperMatt> popey: is that the UDS version of fresher's flu?
<popey> yes
<directhex> SuperMatt, yes
<SuperMatt> gotcha
 * popey chuckles at bamf
<popey> bad a$$ mo fo..
<directhex> BAMF!
<directhex> popey, nope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamf
<gord> its the bamf application matching framework
<popey> yeah yeah, that's the _sensible_ answer
<gord> i have no idea what popey is talking about, ignore him
<AlanBell>  /ignore popey
<gord> he is delirious from ubuflu
<popey> its the ubuflu
<popey> bed
<popey> nn
<AlanBell> nn
<jussi> pish, popey is always delerious :P
<directhex> at any rate, it poops itself over unison2.27.57-gtk
<ali1234> and anything java related
<directhex> java has always confused window managers
<ali1234> yeah, but it especially confuses bamf
<directhex> chances are it'll be fine if you set the variable which makes java use the old X driver, not the new one
<directhex> the old one worked with everything
<ali1234> nope
<gord> java doesn't export any information that bamf can use to match windows -> desktop files, java needs to be fixed
<ali1234> also anything that is statically compiled tends to not work properly
<AlanBell> is there any realistic prospect of java being fixed?
<directhex> lol
<ali1234> having two binaries for one program, or two .desktop files for one program, really confuses it
<directhex> AlanBell, nobody's "fixed" java for decades :p
<AlanBell> now that it has been given the dementors kiss by oracle
<ali1234> and no, there is zero chance of java being fixed unless one of the bamf developers does it
<ali1234> <rant>you should just fix it instead of complaining about it</rant>
<directhex> i like java being broken.
<gord> would be nice if there were some sort of good bounty website for this kind of stuff
<ali1234> only if the bounties are actually worth the effort involved
<ali1234> $50 bounty for massive invasive changes to java that upstream will never accept = no thanks
<directhex> the point of free software development is that it enables people to "scratch an itch"
<directhex> any project which does not permit external contribution is effectively not useful in that sense, since you can't contribute scratched itches
 * AlanBell installs eclipse to see how broken it is
<TOShrun> Ah - I wouldn't recommend running the packaged eclipse AlanBell
<directhex> eclipse is why i quit developing in java
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> eclipse isn't that bad
<TOShrun> it gets very broken when eclipse updates some of it's packages.
<directhex> i was a java dev once. it's true! my degree was mostly java-based
<ali1234> by which i mean, it isn't the worst thing about java
<TOShrun> just download a tarball and run it from ~/bin
<bigcalm> AlanBell: what do you need eclipse for?
<TOShrun> Eclipse works OK - it's a bit slow but I like the UI and integration of SVN and various languages
<TOShrun> I also use Talend (built on Eclipse)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: well apparently java applications don't work with unity
<ali1234> if you just want to test that i suggest something smaller
<bigcalm> AlanBell: have a look at NetBeans
<AlanBell> it is installed now
<AlanBell> so I have a launcher icon, I click it, it launches
<ali1234> *eventually* :)
<AlanBell> I have SSD, it launches
<AlanBell> gedit launches slightly faster, but not by much :)
<AlanBell> click, have mouthfull of coffee, put mug down, its ready
<ali1234> gedit loads as quickly as switching to an already running instance here
<ali1234> so now it's loaded, what happens?
<awilkins> AlanBell, I don't think Java and Unity are mutually exclusive
<ali1234> yeah, i never said they were
<awilkins> AlanBell, I think Eclipse is actually blacklisted from the global menu
<ali1234> i just said java apps confuse bamf
<awilkins> AlanBell, Something about it not coping with dynamic menu updates AFAIK
<ali1234> though open office (or whatever they're calling it this week) doesn't. that's written in java right?
<AlanBell> oh, I turned off global menu because it breaks wayland
<awilkins> Tasktop, which is an Eclipse RCP app, does work with the global menu (not sure if this is an oversight, or deliberate though)
<awilkins> ali1234, LibreOffice is C++ with some Java bits
<awilkins> Which they are trying to remove as fast as possible
<ali1234> ok, that's probably why it works then
<awilkins> ali1234, There's a plugin - lo-menubar
<ali1234> AlanBell: you use wayland?
<awilkins> ali1234,  But it's not regarded as stable enough to support, I've never had trouble with it
<ali1234> lo-menubar? what is that?
<ali1234> i'm talking about bamf, not global menus
<awilkins> Oh, soz
<AlanBell> I was running some stuff in weston, GTK things 'work' but only if you turn off all the canonical stuff that goes off piste and requires native X
<ali1234> i also have global menus turned off, because they suck
<AlanBell> so overlay scrollbars and global menus need turning off
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> porting all that stuff to wayland is going to be fun
<awilkins> I quite like overlay scollbars for Eclipse, it has so many panes that the scrollbars become a major drain on it's screen real estate
<ali1234> luckily it will be fun for someone other than me
<TOShrun> ali1234: How do you turn off that global menu thing? It get's on my nerves too. Having to move the mouse *way* up to the top of the screen - it used to be right there.
<ali1234> awilkins: and what if you want to resize the panes, and the handle thing just blocks you every time?
<awilkins> ali1234, It's not something I recall being frustrated by
<ali1234> i currently have an open bug about that one
<ali1234> TOShrun: just looking up the guide for doing it
<awilkins> ali1234, It may be worse since the most recent iteration of the scrollbars which are sensitive all along their height
<ali1234> you have to do a combination of removing packages and setting environment variables to get rid of it everywhere (because it requires so many hacks and patches to every UI toolkit)
<TOShrun> ah
<ali1234> ok to start with you want to export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY= in your prefered place for putting environment variables
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/10481/how-do-i-disable-the-global-application-menu
<ali1234> this question seems out of date and i'm sure there was a much better one
<TOShrun> There are a few links to other interesting pages. Will read when I have more time. Thanks
<davmor2> morning all
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/105889/can-i-completely-disable-the-menu-proxy
<ali1234> there are also issues if you use X11 forwarding and such
<ali1234> ok, eclipse does not confuse bamf any more
<directhex> BAMF!
<AlanBell> eclipse seems like any other application to me
<selinuxium> Hi all  o/
<SuperMatt> word up
<ali1234> yeah, eclipse works fine
<directhex> except for being eclipse
<ali1234> natch
<ali1234> i just mean in terms of launching, locking to launcher, etc
<Knightwise> morning everyone :)
<ali1234> ah, not quite. unlock it from the launcher, then run it from the dash (not a terminal) and you get no icon
<ali1234> actually didn't someone run into that bug the other day?
<TOShrun> if you minimise it and move to a different workspace, then go back (when it has no icon) you can't get to it. Unless you install Expo
<Knightwise> grr.
<Knightwise> fell of the internet there
<TOShrun> alt+tab doesn't show it. Expo does.
<selinuxium> Any Millbank peeps about? I have a problem trying to give Canonical a couple of grand...
<Knightwise> too busy writing manuals for dumb users.
<TOShrun> popey: is asleep selinuxium (shhh)
<davmor2> jpds: you about ^^^
<selinuxium> TOShrun, :)
<selinuxium> I have pinged czajkowski as well... :)
<TOShrun> Must work out how to create a password so I can login to freenode with the same name ;-)
<jpds> davmor2: Hi.
<SuperMatt> omg loving virtual machine manager in precise, I can now save the vm state :)
<selinuxium> jpds, has answered the call!
<davmor2> jpds: many thanks
<selinuxium> SuperMatt, explain do you mean on KVM?
<SuperMatt> yeah
<SuperMatt> unless this is a feature that's been there for ages but I was too blind to see :P
<selinuxium> SuperMatt. Has been a while since I have used KVM. I have two spare servers now to play with so will be setting it up again..
<AlanBell> !register | TOShrun
<lubotu3> TOShrun: Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<oimon> getting memtest errors on a bunch of new kit. same address on nearly every one.
<oimon> :-\
<davmor2> oimon: try another version of memtest might be a bug in memtest itself
<oimon> it's possible, i was thinking that
<Knightwise> when i want users to have read only access to a folder
<Knightwise> do i just need to chown it and then go chmod 775 ?
<davmor2> oimon: it might be that the version of memtest doesn't know about the newer memory in the machine so is hitting a coding error maybe
<hoover> Knightwise: 755 might be better
<hoover> Knightwise: depending on your group setup
<hoover> 755 == owner rw, group + rest of the world ro
<hoover> you could also add the users to the group you want to allow read access for
<MooDoo> alright davmor2 :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka 'ow am ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes not too bad thanks
<filo1234> hi all
<filo1234> I've enabled root account for some test, ad after I've re-disabled root using passwd -d root , so why recovery mode ask for CTRL-D or password if root has empty password again?
<filo1234> so if I type "return" I can login without password, but I remember that recovery ( by default ) with root disabled doesn't ask for CTRL-D
<MooDoo> yay oggcamp hotel booked
<DJones> Where are you staying
<MooDoo> DJones: at the britannia adelphi - http://oggcamp.org/accommodation/
<DJones> Right, hadn't realised most people tried to stay at one venue
<MooDoo> DJones: they have had quite a few booking this morning
<DJones> Right, the place is only 30 minutes from home for me
<MooDoo> DJones: you'll be ok then :D
<DJones> Yep, going to try and visit, but I've got holidays, cousins wedding and birthdays all around the oggcamp weekend so I might not make it
<SuperMatt> sigh, my habbit of checking for updates every half an hour or so seems to have extended past the beta phase
<SuperMatt> maybe I should install quantal so I have something to update every once in a while
<Knightwise> hmm.. playing around with google Drive
<Knightwise> looks very satisfying too. I can now finally organise my GoogleDocs
<SuperMatt> out for linux yet?
<SuperMatt> The reason why I'm going google drive (when I can) is because I use gmail, I like picasa, and it share its space with drive, so I can put all my photos up on picasa and have google drive use the remainder of the space
<SuperMatt> that way I only have to manage one subscription
<MartijnVdS> Picasa and drive share space?
<MartijnVdS> My Picasa only has 1 or 2 GB.. my gmail has 7.5
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> 10
<feisar> hi, does anyone have a recommendation for simple online storage space that I can ssh/rsync to?
<MartijnVdS> feisar: a VPS?
<feisar> no it's a physical server
<mattt> VPS not redundant :(
<feisar> I'd like around 1TB of space, that I can just mirror stuff to using ssh/rsync
<SuperMatt> feisar: wait until google drive comes out for linux, you might be able to do that with command line
<SuperMatt> what about amazon cloud? is that redundant?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Use something like sparkleshare on your own hosted h/w?
<Knightwise> SuperMatt: that would be cool :)
<feisar> TheOpenSourcerer: that's the kind of thing I'm looking for but I want it in a different location to our own h/w
<Knightwise> i do know that Steve Gibson mentioned a bunch of cloud solutions on the last 2 podcasts of "security now"
<TheOpenSourcerer> run that on EC2
<SuperMatt> I would go with EC2
<feisar> thanks, I', looking at EC2 now, looks like ssh & rsync work
<mattt> there was some rsync service
<mattt> i remember seeing them advertising on the gentoo site all the time
<feisar> mattt: that might be event better
<mattt> http://rsync.net/
<feisar> just got em!
<feisar> rsync.net looks perfect
<feisar> mattt: thanks : )
<feisar> actually, it's a little expensive
<Knightwise> feisar: why not run your own server somewhere ? All the gigs you want ? or use something like bluehost (i know they dont like it if you use their webspace as filestorage .. but it works ?)
<Knightwise> they have SSH access to the directories so in theory it should work too
<feisar> running my own would definitely give me all the space I need but where do you put a server like that?
<Knightwise> grandma's house ? (i've done that)
<feisar> if it was for personal use, yesh but this is for an organisation
<feisar> yesh?! I mean yeah
<Knightwise> hmm .. not very professional indeed
<diplo> feisar, called co-locating
<feisar> they need about 600GB of space and Â£300 a month is pretty expensive
<Knightwise> but check out the links to the security now podcast , perhaps there is a service in there for you ?
<diplo> But it's nto cheap if you are thinking rsyncs prices are dear
<diplo> Alzephur hosts a box in the US, if latency isn't an issue
<diplo> It's a lot cheaper to host there
<feisar> US would be fine, I think rsync.net is in the US
<Knightwise> realy ?
<feisar> if only they had two offices... I might have to use tapes
<Knightwise> you and the NSA have nothing to hide from each other ?
<diplo> If you are that worried you could encrypt :)
<feisar> it could be encrypted
 * TheOpenSourcerer uses machines in Germany - A machine with 2x3TB (RAID 1) for â¬49/m
<diplo> I take it 600gb is total storage, wat sort of storage are you looking at ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> And it has 10TB bandwidth/m
<diplo> What I was about to suggest TheOpenSourcerer, running your own dedi server shouldn't be that dear, just need a bit of housekeeping to make sure it's secure
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
<feisar> 3TB for 49 a month is good
<feisar> I figured that dedicated hosting would cost more than just getting some space somewhere
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4s
<mattt> feisar: may not meet your requirements, but may want to look at amazon's S3, rackspace's cloud files, etc.
<feisar> yeah, thanks guys
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry - wrong one: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4
<TheOpenSourcerer> That â¬49 in inc. VAT btw.
<mattt> jeez, that's cheap
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<feisar> it seems odd that I can get 3TB of space there with all that processor power and yet can get the space on it's own for less
<mattt> i have a hetzner box, paying around 49 euros a month
<mattt> and it certainly doesn't have those specs :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have 4 hetzner boxes now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Of varying specs.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some more, some less.
<TheOpenSourcerer> They update their h/w quite frequently.
<mattt> yeah, i need to ditch mine
<mattt> i'm not using it a lot
<mattt> a lot of people moan about hetzner, but i've not had any probs
<mattt> which reminds me
<TheOpenSourcerer> feisar needs one.
<mattt> i had a reminder a few weeks back about my server getting moved between datacentres
<mattt> forgot about it, but fortunately it moved without issue :)
<mattt> actually it never moved, checking my uptime
<feisar> TheOpenSourcerer: thanks for the link
<TheOpenSourcerer> np
<Knightwise> Sigh :) Need Coffee !
 * Knightwise needs to patch his Java quota
<feisar> I dont understand how hetzner are so cheap nothing in the UK even comes close to that amount of space
<MooDoo> feisar: they employ pixies
<feisar> ha
<awilkins> Judicious de-duping?
<feisar> yeah
<feisar> although I don't thank that would work with most of what I'd be storing there
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's German efficiency!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ooh Talend 5.1 out today.
<Knightwise> hmm. i was looking at getting me a second hand HP DM1 netbook
<Knightwise> but it looks like it isnt very precise friendly :(
<AlanBell> straight to Quantal then Knightwise
<Knightwise> lol :) might be a bit early to run the alpha on there, dont you think ?
<Knightwise> Might just upgrade the harddrive in my 2009 macbook air with an SSD and punch ubuntu on there , works fine
<MooDoo> ssd o/
<diplo> :(
<DJones> Heh Gnome flavour Ubuntu considered http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEwMTU
<diplo> I really must save for one
<Knightwise> i am looking at the ones at OWC (other world computing) pretty cheep and pretty nice
<Knightwise> installed one in my Macbook pro http://knightwise.com/kwtv-0031-qmutate-your-macbookq/
<awilkins> I'm thinking of upgrading my 64GB one to a 128GB one
<awilkins> It's in a caddy, I shlep it between work and home
<awilkins> It's my OS disk at work and I bind-mount the working folders on my desktop at home
<awilkins> It's survived much better than the spinning-rust ones that I used to do the same with
<awilkins> They all drop dead from mechanical faults
<awilkins> External HDD caddy controllers are crapulous in general too, they fail really quickly
 * AlanBell is sleepy
 * AlanBell thinks customers should accept consultants need an afternoon nap
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha
<diplo> I think i could start taking an afternoon nap
<MooDoo> lazy buggre :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: is that French? :)
<DJones> I thought it was spanish for Have a siesta
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: oui :)
<gord> AlanBell, i petition for nap time sessions every uds, no one takes me seriously :(
<SuperMatt> should make it one of the ubuntu achievements
<davmor2> gord: no one ever takes you seriously though dude you should be used to it ;)
<gord> i am *always* super cereal.
<directhex> even about manbearpig?
<gord> *especially*
<directhex> i hear he's half man and half bearpig
<MartijnVdS> directhex: like some kind of weird centaur?
<Knightwise> hey MartijnVdS , goed !
<Knightwise> gord !
<Knightwise> didn't smell you come in :)
<davmor2> pig bear man, surely they are missing the the word ugly and spelt bear wrong :D
<bigcalm> Wish it was Wednesday so that I could have steak and a couple of pints. Damn you slow week
<czajkowski> will be taking part in flossie next week http://www.flossie.org/?page_id=125
<oimon> czajkowski, you are in the main QMUL maths lecture theatre for these?
<oimon> doesn't say which dept.but i think its maths
<czajkowski> oimon: no idea
<oimon> looks like a really fun conference, shame its women only
<czajkowski> no it's not
<AlanBell> oh, I need to get CDs to Paula for that
<czajkowski> open to anyone who wants to come along
<czajkowski> just the majority of speakers are women
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey you could invite some folks from Dell Norway ;-)
<MooDoo> there should be a central site for events like this, as i only ever here about them when czajkowski mentioned them lol
<oimon> oh i didn't know that men can go
<czajkowski> oimon: it doesnt say men not welcome now does it
<czajkowski> anywhere!
<DJones> oimon: You have to wear a dress though :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: lanyard is good
<oimon> someone told me, and i couldn't find information to refute what they said
<czajkowski> scarmongering
<oimon> maybe she didn't want me there :P
<oimon> as i work on the campus
<MooDoo> oimon: i can believe that ;)
<shauno> to be fair, between the 'who is this event for' bit, and "For everyone who loves Free Libre Software and identifies as a woman" in the sidebar, I'd probably reach the same conclusion unless told otherwise
<oimon> shauno, yeah, sounds like it might be a bit ...awkward
<oimon> actually i'm offsite on a course that week anyway
<czajkowski> *headdesk*
<MooDoo> wassup czajkowski *PROD*
 * aquarius tries new irc client.
<awilkins> Aha, an app that DOES confuse the taskbar
<awilkins> MySQL Workbench
<awilkins> I guess it gets it's own dedicated workspace with no other apps on it
<awilkins> Suddenly I find my will to go on a little sapped
<TheOpenSourcerer> On my 12.04 desktop virt-manager is not letting me create a new image. I get a message: "invalid storage volume pointer in no storage vol with matching path"
<TheOpenSourcerer> The server (host) has not changed.
<TheOpenSourcerer> running virt-manager over ssh.
<MarkDude> popey, ftw! https://twitter.com/#!/MarkDude/status/202462902903517185/photo/1
<Sarah__> burmesearmy
<Laney> indeed.
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: create the hdd image manually and attach it, I did that the other day
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah - worked that out in the end
<mattt> Laney: lolz
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh goody. Precise just decided it had had enough - the launcher started flashing various icons and then it slowed to crawl. Took me 15 minutes to carefully shut as many apps as I could down then reboot.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is really not very good.
<MartijnVdS> wouldn't restarting unity work?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I couldn't. It had all but locked up. Didn't/couldn't get to a terminal without trying to start something. It was in a state.
<MartijnVdS> scary
<MartijnVdS> nvidia?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I get one or two crashes each day.
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes. But a fairly old and low powered GPU.
 * MartijnVdS hugs his intel gpu
<TheOpenSourcerer> This machine was rock solid on 10.10 BTW.
<MartijnVdS> I remember there being problems with nvidia gpus becoming desoldered because they got too hot
<MartijnVdS> but that was several years ago
<TheOpenSourcerer> This was a fairly simple card (fanless) just to do compiz - it has been fine.
<MartijnVdS> My brother's laptop had the "solder" problem
<TheOpenSourcerer> Most of the time in Unity it seems OK but eventually 12.04 seems to get fscked and gives up.
<TheOpenSourcerer> usually after I have lots of windows open.
<MartijnVdS> what happens when you use the other driver?
<MartijnVdS> nouveau vs nvidia-proprietary?
<TheOpenSourcerer> on several workspaces.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have the nvidia driver installed.
<MartijnVdS> Does it also crash with the nvidia driver uninstalled/nouveau driver running?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have no idea. And this is a work machine - I am trying to do work. Not debug buggy software...
<MartijnVdS> Switching to the free driver fixed crashes for a few of my coworkers
<MartijnVdS> It made it a lot slower too
<MartijnVdS> but it didn't crash anymore
<TheOpenSourcerer> I may give that a go then. Thanks for the tip.
<MartijnVdS> if it doesn't work, it might be fried hardware though :|
<bigcalm> How do I find out how much memory my graphics card has?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's usually somewhere in the Xorg.log
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: in /var/log
<bigcalm> Ta
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also, lspci -v will probably show it
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: 	Memory at e0000000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
<MartijnVdS> for mine
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, want to stick with Unity, I was having similar problems.. tried Cinnamon and no longer any issues
<diplo> My issues have pretty much gone now though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> what is cinnamon?
<diplo> The gnome2 fork
<TheOpenSourcerer> ah
<MartijnVdS> so not using 3d at all
<MartijnVdS> that would explain the lack of crashes
<diplo> gnome3
<diplo> I'd say win7 esq
<TheOpenSourcerer> But this box was fine with 10.10, compiz cubes and stuff.
<diplo> Worked really well though
<diplo> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/12/cinnamon-project-keeps-gnome-2-style-desktop-alive/
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Never buy nvidia again ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, I am not convinced that this is down to nvidia. I've always used the nvidia drivers before and not had issues.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have issues since changing from 10.10 to 12.04
<hamitron> 295.40?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a GeForce 9500 GT in this box.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And now I am going to bed.
<MartijnVdS> nn
<hamitron> I can't get packages.ubuntu.com working?
<yothsoggoth> does anyone have any clues on the area-screenshot not working when pressting Shift+Print?
<AlanBell> works for me (and I never knew it did that)
<yothsoggoth> Hmm, I swear it used to work for me too, but it doesn't do anything anymore. :(. I only found it last week, it's a wonderful feature
<yothsoggoth> ... if it was working, that is lol
<yothsoggoth> Hmm, also.. trying to set a keyboard shortcut in the settings menu, pressing "Alt+Print" comes up as "Alt L", so it's impossible to reset the window printscreen shortcut
<AlanBell> if you file 28 bugs about it then you will get bug 1000000
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1000000 could not be found
<AlanBell> it will be found tomorrow
<yothsoggoth> or Later tonight, I think bug 999979 was just posted
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 999979 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashes when trying to Search for Updates in Ubuntu 12.04 LTS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999979
<yothsoggoth> is "gnome-screenshot" the program used by default for screenshots?
<Azelphur> yep
<yothsoggoth> "gnome-screenshot -a" works fine, so I guess the bug is in whatever handles the keyboard shortcuts? I also tried setting Launch Terminal to Shift+Print and that worked, so it's not a case if the shortcut being incorrectly picked up
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-16
<soreau> launchpad's millionth bug?
<soreau> time to party
<shauno> hah, someone had to I guess .. bug 1000000
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1000000 in Ubuntu "For every bug on Launchpad, 67 iPads are sold" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000000
<grogoreo> hi
<grogoreo> after upgrading to Gnome 3.4 with the new ubuntu, my title buttons have gone back to the right after setting them to the left in button_layout. Any idea why it won't change?
<C-S-B> Anyone around
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Testing and Instrumentation - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/16/testing-and-instrumentation/
<AlanBell> bug 1000000
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1000000 in Edubuntu "For every bug on Launchpad, 67 iPads are sold" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000000
<mattt> morning
<diplo> Morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> Morning brobostigon, bit quiet here this morning :)
<brobostigon> morning diplo , it is quite early.
<MooDoo> morning
 * brobostigon was playing with blenders proper 3d modelling last night, and thinks he could get the hang of it.
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha, ha, ha bug 1000000
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1000000 in Edubuntu "For every bug on Launchpad, 67 iPads are sold" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000000
<MooDoo> quiet in here again today
 * AlanBell tickles MooDoo 
<MooDoo> thanks AlanBell just what i needed
<MooDoo> cough cough nutter cough cough
<MooDoo> join #libertus
<MooDoo> oops just curious :)
<MooDoo> :D
<diplo> We all busy today then ?
<MooDoo> diplo: yes [read that as fedup.com] lol
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<diplo> I'm updating CV/Linkedin/everything else.
<diplo> Really ought to start working now
<diplo> :)
<MooDoo> diplo: looking for something else?
<diplo> Yep, want to get back to sysadmin from developing
<bigcalm> I want to get back to bed from developing
<MooDoo> diplo: where are you again?
<diplo> Near Bath
<diplo> Our Headoffice at the mo is up near nottingham
<MooDoo> diplo: that's what i thought......was going to suggest this - http://jobs.heartinternet.co.uk/#job4
<diplo> Really not feeling happy about work and it's one thing i've decided over the last 2 years is I need to be happy
<bigcalm> Happiness is key
<diplo> heh I'm gutted, I've been emailed about that job as well
<diplo> Also one in Leicester for EasyInternet
<diplo> Sod all around this area, need to be fairly local because of my kids
<diplo> I'd be fine if i was still married, would take stuff in Bristol/Swindon but that's an hour each way and if i need to get kids from School in a rush it could be a problem
<MooDoo> diplo: contracting?  create you're own startup.com?
<diplo> I've been told to do that a few times
<diplo> But I have a house that as a married couple we could barely afford ( she spent to much it seems ) and I now run it on my own, to worried about contracting and not earning enough to keep a house over my kids heads
<diplo> I should do it, quite a few friends do but I think I'm just to chicken :)
<diplo> I'm debating about doing a lot more private work and actually actively find some work outside of work hours
<diplo> Or even totally leave the IT field
<MooDoo> diplo: i'm the same, i want to startup.com but i'm too chicken, why do't we all go work for AlanBell :)
<diplo> Now that sounds great!
<diplo> :P
<MooDoo> we're all coming to work for you AlanBell especially seeing as you've got a nice new shiney office ;)
<DJones> MooDoo: Don't forget the high speed fibre internet connection at their office
<MooDoo> DJones: oooo minecraft on speekd
<MooDoo> diplo: you can startup ubuntu-uk support services ltd ;)
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks he might need to talk to AlanBell about recruitment.
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: diplo: we ain't ready yet but do feel free to send us your CV ;-)
<diplo> Will do squire!
<MooDoo> okey cokey.
<diplo> How is life for everyone now we have some conversation going
<diplo> Had blue skys earlier, but clouding over now :(
<diplo> I wanted a nice bright day today
<DJones> We've just had heavy rain after blue sky and now back to blue sky
<diplo> Really screwed up weather this year aint it
<diplo> God, getting old! talking about weather :(
<DJones> GET OFF MY LAWN
<MooDoo> it's nice and blue here, just waiting for the clouds :)
<diplo> Oooh oooh sun is a coming back!
<MooDoo> diplo: you're asleep....WAKE UP
<diplo> You had to spoil it, it's gone away now
<diplo> :(
<MooDoo> heh
<s-fox> Hello o/
<MooDoo> s-fox: hello :D
<s-fox> popey,  i see you are logged into the forums. What do you think of the look?
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo  :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: how are you
<daubers> lo
<MooDoo> lo daubers
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: steak and beer tonight dude
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Morning
<bigcalm> I bloomin' well need it
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<s-fox> dI am okay thank you MooDoo
<s-fox>  How are you doing??
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning me owld mucka
<bigcalm> Just moved two mattresses about. Now smells like ionised air around here
<MooDoo> davmor2: how's it going?
<davmor2> MooDoo: round in circles of ever decreasing suffering :D  who needs automated functionality test anyway
<MooDoo> davmor2: prod czajkowski, you'll feel better
<davmor2> czajkowski: PRODDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<davmor2> MooDoo: nope this helps though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-7bQezFZ44
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah seen that, very funny
<s-fox> MooDoo,  are you feeling any better?
<MooDoo> must be nice to have a mobile phone :S
<MooDoo> s-fox: will at 5:30.....:)
<DJones> Is anybody here using powerline ethernet devices? Just wondering if you have a couple of devices to connect, do the adapters have more than one connection, or do you just use a spare router/switch
<gord> i do, and mine at least have one port per adapter
<DJones> That was what I thought, the ones I'd looked at only seemed to have one port, I was hoping to run a connection to a sky receiver and plug a wifi extender into it
<JamesTai1> Morning all!
<DJones> I guess I could just get something like http://www.amazon.co.uk/7dayshop-200Mbps-HomePlug-Powerline-Ethernet/dp/B004I6AK7A/ref=sr_1_5?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1337163252&sr=1-5 and plug an extender into one of them
<gord> when they say "blisteringly fast", they are lying
<DJones> Reading the reviews, it doesn't read to good, requires Windows XP to cinfigure them
<diplo> I keep debating about them, and then think I'll just pull some cat5e round the house instead
<diplo> :)
<DJones> gord: What would you expect for blisteringly fast? the 500Mbs versions
<davmor2> gord I don't know mine isn't too bad I went for the tplink, the only problem with mine is they are both plugged into extension cables which is a big no no
<czajkowski> MooDoo: davmor2 herrro
<diplo> Do these power network plugs come with a socket built into them so you can carry on using the sockets guys ?
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski :)
<davmor2> diplo: the expensive ones do
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oggcamp hotel booked, looks like you get that beer i owe you after all :D
<czajkowski> hehe
<gord> DJones, you'll get lots of noise on the line, at least in my experience, packet loss is through the roof
<diplo> ah so I need to spend money then :) I think I'll stick to cat5e then...
<diplo> Not enough sockets in my house as it is
<diplo> and a few boxes of cat5e in my garage
<MooDoo> diplo: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jM0PTDwWArQ/Rpj0G07YrAI/AAAAAAAAANk/ZV-gX4z_SV0/s400/cat5.JPG
<DJones> davmor2: Assuming I got this http://goo.gl/b9HYL (which is the TP AV500), do you just connect one to the broadband router and one somehwere else within the house, they're not just receivers & you have to buy a seperate transmitter
<diplo> heh MooDoo
<diplo> I wired my back office/kids play room now, and to save going through walls and stuff i ran it around the outside wall ( standard cat5e ), was told that it wouldn't last because of rain/sun/snow/cold etc
<diplo> It's been 5 years now
<davmor2> DJones: so you need to click on a button to sync them to each other and plug in the cables and that's it
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah i did that to my garage where my servers are, and that's been a few years
<diplo> So good enough for me, will do other rooms the same now, ready for kids wanting PCs/media centres in there rooms
<DJones> davmor2: Thanks, sounds easy enough
<davmor2> gord: you need to get your electrics checked dude
<diplo> Any of you guys use or develop with the likes of drupal or some other cms ?
<diplo> Got a charity here where I work, done a little web work for them but they are stuck on a PR News companies free hosting and want to prep to move or think about it
<diplo> http://www.peopleagainstpoverty.com/
<diplo> Reckon Drupal or something like it could be layed out like that ?
<dogmatic69> what is the easiest way to convert wifi to normal wired? Say I have wifi from downstairs to upstairs, then want to use normal cable to various pc's
<directhex> dogmatic69, AP in bridge mode, plug into switch?
<bigcalm> diplo: my experience shows to avoid Drupal unless you have a lot of time to work everything out. And don't mind modules breaking between releases
<dogmatic69> directhex: thanks
 * bigcalm scuttles off for lunch
<AlanBell> http://openstandardsroundtable6.eventbrite.co.uk/ rerun of the microsoft corrupted first round table consultation on open standards
 * davmor2 pictures bigcalm as zoidburg
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo - Joomla! would probably be easier to do that
<diplo> Ah that's the other one I was going to try with.. totally forgotten it
<diplo> Thanks!
<diplo> Cheers bigcalm
<diplo> aswell
<diplo> Not promising I'll do it for them, was going to download/template it and see how I got on... then say yes or no
<diplo> Any other recommendations will be welcome
<diplo> Joomla just installing \o/
<diplo> Lunch time job to have a play
<AlanBell> could be done in wordpress too
<bigcalm> Woop woop woop woop woop woop woop woop
<AlanBell> but I would probably go for joomla
<diplo> yeah I did think wordpress as well AlanBell, not if it would be suitable.. not a full on cms really is it
<diplo> Well that's two people, so I approve :)
<AlanBell> you can do quite a bit more CMSish stuff in wordpress than you might expect
<diplo> Main thing for me is I don't want to have to support it to much, especially as I'll probably do it for free
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> depends a bit on who will be making the content and whether they prefer the back end of workdpress or the back end of joomla!
<diplo> yeah, well if you saw what they used now
<diplo> Anything would be better
<diplo> It is god awful!
<diplo> I had to do some horrible hacks to get things to work
<bigcalm> My vote would be for Wordpress as I have no experience of Joomla
 * bigcalm grabs that sub!
<MooDoo> wordpress o/
<diplo> Right, going to try both and show them.. Joomla looks nice for a start
<diplo> Just got installed, see what the themeing is like first
<davmor2> diplo: there is django too
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Creating templates for Joomla! is fairly easy - easier than for Wordpress.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And there are thousands of free ones you can use a base and modify.
<diplo> I was going to use your wordpress how to later TheOpenSourcerer or your example anyhoo
<diplo> django python based davmor2
<diplo> ?
<diplo> Heard the name, not looked into it
<davmor2> diplo: yeap
<davmor2> diplo: https://www.djangoproject.com/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I built lots of Joomla! sites.
<diplo> My Python knowledge is basic at the moment, so will take a look but it has a lower score from my proficiency point of view :)
<diplo> Will take a look though thanks!
<diplo> Well so far so good TheOpenSourcerer , creating a template already
<diplo> Docs seem quite good
<diplo> The company I work for have wrote there own code rather than using one of these projects ( stoopid ) so my only exposure is Wordpress for personal use
 * TheOpenSourcerer disappears under the weight of eclipse to work on porting a customer's vtiger system...
<davmor2> diplo: the way it was explained to me, wordpress is ideal for a personal blog/small site if you tinker with it you can get some useful features,  django, drupal and joomla are for creating a site from the ground up that is intended to do anything and everything
<dogmatic69> anyone seen / used one of these? http://uk.level1.com/product_d.php?id=283
<dogmatic69> Thinking of getting one
<SuperMatt> ooohkay, I have a libvirt kvm in precise, but I can't select virtio as the diskbus. any ideas?
<diplo> Well the latter is more what I think I need to work to davmor2, will grab django tonight and have a look
<diplo> Templating joomla now and see how it works
<diplo> dogmatic69, Looked at buying the dell equivalent but never did
<diplo> But basically it's a 1u/2u rack sserver from what i read before but made specifically for nas
<oimon> in facebook, if i comment on a public page, it shows up on my timeline. how do i hide that without deleting the comment?
<davmor2> oimon: I didn't think you could other than deleting it
<oimon> davmor2, i think that's the case. :( you used to be able to hide the notification on other people's feeds
 * bigcalm flumps
<bigcalm> Or is that flops?
<davmor2> bigcalm: you are eating marshmellow sweets now
<bigcalm> Makes for a good lunch
<bigcalm> davmor2: shouldn't you be at a wedding ceremony?
<davmor2> bigcalm: step-dad to be's lungs are full of fluid so it got postponed till they sort that out
<bigcalm> Oh poop
<bigcalm> Sorry about that man
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah I said something similar although not so family friendly
<bigcalm> What's the choice FTP server these days?
<SuperMatt> I'd like to avoid FTP, but wordpress seems to rely on it :(
<SuperMatt> although... if you ftp to localhost, is someone likely to be able to sniff passwords?
<jpds> bigcalm: openssh sftp ?
<jpds> SuperMatt: If they have root, yes.
<bigcalm> jpds: I have sftp setup, I need to organise ftp as well
<jpds> bigcalm: Don't?
<bigcalm> jpds: doesn't answer my original question :)
<diplo> I always used to use vsftpd
<diplo> But I've stopped using any now
<diplo> Can see what my webhost uses if you like ?
<diplo> PureFTPD
<davmor2> bigcalm: proftpd but to be honest if you have sftp in place why bother
<directhex> SuperMatt, ftp is totally sniffable. it's insecure by design
<directhex> SuperMatt, only by using basic-level FTPS (encrypted control channel, unencrypted data channel) can you do safe password exchange
<SuperMatt> bugs me, it does
<SuperMatt> stupid wordpress
<bigcalm> I've set up sftp for a client but something is odd with routing at the moment so that they can't connect. The alternative is to use FTP over the VPN they have with my client's server
<bigcalm> I'd rather they could use SFTP. It's down to Rackspace sorting out their routing troubles
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone else getting 12.04 moving windows about randomly? I was sure I had a terminal window open in workspace 3 then it made a re-appearance in #2 !
<TheOpenSourcerer> Of course clicking on the terminal icon in the launcher didn't help to find it either :-(
<diplo> Stopped using workspaces, so sorry don't know.. can try and replicate if you want ?
<diplo> My biggest issue is compiz using lots of CPU all the time with Precise ( Unity really )
<diplo> I'm going to grab Cinnamon again now actually
<bigcalm> I'm now up to 8 work spaces on my laptop :D
<bigcalm> mrevell: good afternoon. Joining us tomorrow?
<mrevell> bigcalm, Errrrrrm. Not sure yet.
<bigcalm> Heh
<mrevell> I hope to.
<bigcalm> I've decided to drive in. So if you want to stick around for the whole day, happy to give you a lift
<diplo> I just use dual screens and terminator
<diplo> I don't seem to have the user case
<diplo> + have a laptop dual screen setup on the go
<Knightwise> Hmm. i just ordered a solid state drive for my 2009 macbook air.
<Knightwise> hoping that it will be fast enough to run precise smoothly
<SuperMatt> is the global application menu optional in precise?
<TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: As long as you don't complain when it breaks probably ;-)
<SuperMatt> ah, it didn't land in precise
<SuperMatt> I'm still not sure where I stand on it
<bigcalm> diplo: dual screens doesn't work on my laptop sadly, hence the abundance of workspaces. The laptop is only for out of office work. So in the office I have 6 work spaces on each of my 3 monitors. I'm a greedy bugger
<diplo> What do you use them all for?!?!?
<SuperMatt> personally, I think that the menu should have options (global - always visible, global - mouse over, standard)
<diplo> I thought I was bad for having stuff open
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> I'll admit that the central monitor never changes from the 1st workspace - has my IDE on it
<bigcalm> But I have multiple browsers, email, terminals, spotify, etc on the others
<diplo> :)
<hamitron> TheOpenSourcerer, did you fix your nvida issue?
<hamitron> nvidia*
<TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't even looked at it today and *I* am not certain it is nvidia anyway.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That was MartijnVdS who suspected it was nvidia's problem.
<hamitron> well, I saw nvidia have confirmed a bug in 295.40
<hamitron> they've released a new version to solve it, so thought I'd let you know what I'd read
<agoodm> regarding the sip jitter buffer; does anyone know how to see its 'settings' ie the current buffer size, max possible size etc?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know where a user's VPN configs for network manager are stored in ~ ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can I just copy them back from a backup of my old home dir?
<DJones> Heh http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3patjo/ I think I've seen that shirt in a picture recently
<gord> DJones, was it a magic eye?
<DJones> It was something
 * bigcalm shakes his head
<AlanBell> afternoon nap time again
<directhex> mmmmm nap time...
<christel> :o
<christel> AlanBell: do you have a bed at your new office?
<AlanBell> I am not there today
<christel> aha
<AlanBell> and no ;)
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> Just remembered that we're seeing Stewart Francis do stand-up a week today. A nice surprise to cheer up my afternoon
<bigcalm> 3 hours until beer o'clock
<bigcalm> Time is slowing down
<diplo> bigcalm, I have just been advised the same thing \o/
<bigcalm> Attending the LUG is my excuse for a drink
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Oh, and steak
<bigcalm> Long live LUG meetings in pubs!
<diplo> heh, friend telling me I need to have food/pint is good enough for me :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<diplo> Two local lugs to me are 50 min drives away
<bigcalm> That's a good friend indeed :)
<bigcalm> Mine is a 40ish min drive
<diplo> oh, so a pint is it then
<diplo> I have a mile/ mile and a half walk into town
<bigcalm> Well, the local one (Shropshire) would be about 20 mins. But I prefer attending Wolves LUG instead
<diplo> Can't drink too much anyhoo
<diplo> Got to get up early and pick my parents up from Heathrow :(
<dogmatic69> Settings -> Display -> stick edges... most annoying feature ever
<TheOpenSourcerer> nah... Most annoying is not being able to find windows easily without using keyboard commands...
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Just moved back to cinnamon, I'm happier already
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Will give Unity a go again start of next month.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am tempted to install the gnome-fallback jobby and try that.
<diplo> not tried it yet
<TheOpenSourcerer> The other annoying this is those stupid pop-up sliders. Why oh why...
<ali1234> because not enough people complained about it when it was introduced a year ago
<ali1234> remember, when you go to complain on launchpad and mailing lists, that feature is called overlay scrollbar
<diplo> Right off home. Catch you laters.
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to adjust the workspaces?
<dogmatic69> I have done this http://askubuntu.com/questions/59559/how-to-configure-workspace-layout
<dogmatic69> compiz settings manager, but cant find it
<TheOpenSourcerer> CCSM->General->General Options->Desktop Size
<keith__> can anybody help with a technical problem?
<TheOpenSourcerer> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<ali1234> is it a really technical problem?
<keith__> Yes!!
 * DJones watches as the channel quickly empties
<dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: ah... its General -> General options...
<DJones> dogmatic69: The number of workspaces?
<dogmatic69> DJones: its normally 2x2, I got 2x screens so just want 2x1
<ali1234> on a scale of 1 to 10, how technical is it?
<DJones> I installed myunity that does the job brilliantly
<DJones> from the normal repo's
<DJones> Various settings for changing Unity
<keith__> well I can't load 12.01 on my lap top so I guess 10
<bigcalm> I suggest you try 12.04 instead then ;)
<ali1234> why can't you load it?
<ali1234> no CD drive?
<dogmatic69> hehe
<DJones> keith__: Can you give us a bit more detail, laptop model, specifications and what happens when you try to load/install it
<dogmatic69> ali1234: he's missing disk 42
<keith__> sorry meant 12.04 - used to run 11.11 through winds 7 tried updating to 12.04 - now nothing
<dogmatic69> keith__: a little more detailed description than 'nothing' would help anyone trying to help you
<DJones> 1121123212132123421/
<DJones> dammed locked screen
<keith__> Yeah OK. having selected Ubuntu off the grub / laoder menu the start up just freezes
<DJones> keith__: Is this a full install, or was it done via windows using Wubi? (With you saying you used to run 11.10 through Win 7 makes me wonder about wubi
<keith__> Yeah it was wubi, obviously I could re-install but do not want to loose my files
<dogmatic69> keith__: you can use the live cd to backup everything
<DJones> I've never used wubi, I don't know whether that makes any difference to how ubuntu starts up
<keith__> Ok I will try that first - Thanks for the advice
<DJones> Do you just get a black screen after you select ubuntu from the grub menu
<ali1234> wubi changes everything about how ubuntu starts up
<ali1234> also you can't access it with a livecd
<dogmatic69> :/
<keith__> Not what i would call a black screen, it attemps to load but just freezes on the multi coloured screen
<dogmatic69> keith__: multi coloured... is that something that flashes different colours?
<dogmatic69> I have that on my server when booting sometimes
<keith__> Yes, but no flashing
<ali1234> who wants to help me hunt bugs in gnome classic session?
<ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: i just found compiz has a preference for viewport switching to make the monitors independent
<hamitron> gnome classic?
<ali1234> it just doesn't work with nvidia, but it should do with others
<hamitron> has anyone got a beginners guide to unity?
 * hamitron is struggling
<TheOpenSourcerer> hmm - ali1234 I thought I tried that the other day on my lappy without success.
<ali1234> maybe it doesn't work at all
<davmor2> hamitron: what are you trying to accomplish
<hamitron> I want to see what apps are installed
<hamitron> is there not a menu somewhere?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> you have to open the dash then go to the application lens then open the filter menu then select all the filters, then it gives you a huge unordered list of everything that is installed
<ali1234> it's basically worse than useless
<ali1234> and extremely difficult to find and use
<hamitron> I think I'll have to change how I work
<hamitron> but could be interesting
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> application lens?
<hamitron> ah, I see
<bigcalm> Yeah, lenses are the icons along the bottom of the dashboard. Sadly none of them have names
<ali1234> actually they all have names
<ali1234> you are supposed to just know what they are called
<hamitron> the 2nd one? ;/
<bigcalm> Ahem
<ali1234> right
<bigcalm> "visible" names :P
<ali1234> the one that looks like a bookshelf or something
<bigcalm> hamitron: correct
<ali1234> visible names are bad!
<hamitron> bigcalm, I'm a fast learner ;)
<ali1234> indescribable abstract shapes are much better
<bigcalm> 2 hours to beer o'clock
<bigcalm> Time _has_ slowed down :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: I blame you for that, you're the the talking beer clock
<ali1234> which package provides the classic style menu?
<hamitron> bbl, gonna need to feed myself before learning this :)
<davmor2> hamitron: if you want a nice shortcut for things hold down the windows key and it pops up an overlay of shortcuts to get through things with keypresses
<davmor2> hamitron: also if you have a plain desktop in view if you go to the top there is a menu and there is a help section that acts as a fairly good manual
<ali1234> bug 1000323
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1000323 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "moving panels is very slow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000323
<ali1234> bug 1000343
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1000343 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "no icon for ubuntu one in gnome classic session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000343
<hamitron> davmor2, thanks
<davmor2> hamitron: pleasure
<czajkowski> some tweet love or rehsaring would be great on https://plus.google.com/109129028036222996031/posts/RaCZ1wTP2Rd
<hambuntu> heh
<hambuntu> is there a trick to resizing a window?
<davmor2> hambuntu: bottom righthand corner
<hambuntu> left mouse button?
<davmor2> yeap
<hambuntu> the icon changes like it should resize
<hambuntu> and changes back when I click
<davmor2> hambuntu: yeap you hold the left mouse and then move to where ever
<hambuntu> hmmmm
<davmor2> hambuntu: or you can drag to the side and have it fill one side of the screen or the top and have it fill the page
<hambuntu> I wish it did
<hambuntu> the top right works
<hambuntu> haha
<hambuntu> sides and bottom right just aren't working
 * hambuntu is lacking mouse control badly?
<bigcalm> Bit of an unfortunate host name you're connecting from
<hambuntu> it is cool ;/
<hambuntu> try a restart I suppose
<hambuntu> brb
<dogmatic69> \o/ 12.04 remembers what apps where open in which workspace
<TheOpenSourcerer> orly?
<bigcalm> Just in case anybody had forgotten how wonderfully silly the internet can be, an old video from Cryiak Harris: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WQO-aOdJLiw
<dogmatic69> ye, that was one of my reasons for not using them.
<dogmatic69> also like having the unity bar in all screens. on windows and ubuntu 10.10 etc it only showed the main bar on the main screen
<hamitron> alt and middle button to resize \o/
<hamitron> problem solved
<ali1234> alt+middle button works in gnome too
<ali1234> you know why no one knows this? because given the choice it's a sub-optimal way to resize windows
<hamitron> yeh, but the borders where not too small before, so never needed to know ;)
<ali1234> exactly
<hamitron> so it wasn't just me been a newb? unable to hit them :D
<ali1234> it's a known bug that has been fixed several times, but just keeps coming back
<hamitron> ah, k
<hamitron> can it be fixed with a chunky theme?
<ali1234> no, because no such theme exists
<ali1234> gtk3 only has 3 themes
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> ambiance, radiance, and whatever gnome shell uses
<hamitron> I'd have looked, only I can't find anything atm
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> you need to install gnome-tweak-tool to configure themes
<ali1234> which is why gtk3 has no themes: there's no way to change it anyway
<hamitron> well, it has to work with default settings, or unity "gets it"
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> but I gotta give it a chance
<hamitron> gotta say, it feels easier to work with apps on different desktops
<hamitron> cool, the unity panel on the left went invisible
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> now to work out how I did that
<hamitron> oh, the whole thing is gone
<ali1234> probably crashed
 * hamitron sighs
<hamitron> reminds me of windows 95
<ali1234> ctrl-alt-f1, login, export DISPLAY=:0, metacity --replace && gnome-panel
<hamitron> didn't get there
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> seems easier to drag borders with 3d working
<hamitron> :D
<AlanBell> hamitron: it is, the shadow is draggable
<hamitron> ah :)
<AlanBell> 3d working is the way forward
<hamitron> well, I got other issues to fix with 3d
<hamitron> like how slow it is
<hamitron> I read it should just work in vmware workstation 8
<AlanBell> on lots of machines it is faster
<AlanBell> because it actually uses the bit the graphics card is good at
<hamitron> I assume when it isn't 3d, it is using unity-2d?
<AlanBell> dunno about vmware, but in virtualbox it works fine if you install virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 in the guest
<AlanBell> and check the checkbox in the VM settings to allow accellerated 3d
<hamitron> yeh, done that
<andylockran-lapt> howto
<hamitron> it has got 3d now
<hamitron> just slow
<AlanBell> this time it is using unity2d if it can't do 3d, but in Quetzal it will use 3d via a software renderer
<hamitron> ah, I see
<AlanBell> llvm pipes or something
<hamitron> my next question was.... "why is unity-2d been removed?"
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> two codepaths to maintain
<hamitron> yeh, but I was wondering about the comps that can't do 3d
<hamitron> but you answered that
<hamitron> :D
<AlanBell> it wasn't clear at the time which was the way to go so they paid to back both horses for a while
<TheOpenSourcerer> My kids machine is dire after the upgrade - I ask it to load hardware drivers but it doesn't see the gpu - it's quite an old nvidia board on a standard PCI
<ahayzen> ... what is going to happen to ARM and Ubuntu TV? as i thought these were going to be based on Unity-2D ?
<AlanBell> :( I just have Intel on all machines in the house and they just work
<hamitron> I read the open source drivers are faster than nvidia drivers on old cards
<AlanBell> ahayzen: they get the 3d awesomeness
<hamitron> not tried it yet
<ahayzen> via the llvm pipes?
<hamitron> I would have, only you dropped support for my cpu ;)
<AlanBell> some of the unity2d QML niceness will be added to stuff in 3d I think
<AlanBell> ahayzen: ARM GPUs can generally do the openGL ES stuff (I think I got that right)
<AlanBell> so most of it will be accellerated
<ahayzen> ok :)... its just older hardware that is the issue now
<AlanBell> really old hardware
<ahayzen> bring on Wayland :)
<AlanBell> anything with an Atom chip is basically fine
 * hamitron comforts his VIA C3
 * AlanBell has an OLPC with an unsupported CPU
<andylockran>  any recommendations on a CMS platform that's easy to theme?
<andylockran> just needs pages, categories, tags and news.
<andylockran> contemplating wordpress.
<andylockran> but would ideally like a template system lke twig
<TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran Joomla! is my fave.
<MartijnVdS> poor you
<ali1234> yeah he said easy though
<ali1234> so wordpress
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: don't tell any sysadmins :)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: or dbas
<AlanBell> joomla is easy to theme
<AlanBell> wordpress is slightly easier to use
<AlanBell> both must be updated constantly or bad things will happen due to the architectural failure of PHP
<ali1234> it's not an architectural failure of php
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Joomla retrieves all database contents twice and filters client-side instead of using proper queries
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: by default
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: hence crying DBAs as the site gets bigger
<ali1234> there are plenty of other languages that have "better" architecture
<ali1234> but nobody uses them
<ali1234> this is a failure of web developers
<oimon1> evning all. what's the process for getting openvpn client to show under the network manager in 12.04 please?
<AlanBell> sure
<MartijnVdS> oimon1: network-manager-openvpn-gnome
<MartijnVdS> oimon1: install that & it'll show up
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Does that apply in Joomla! 2.5
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: All versions
<oimon1> MartijnVdS: fantastic. thanks. wonder why it doesn't show in the ubuntu software centre under "openvpn"
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: according to him, his patches to fix it keep getting rejected because "that's not what the database is for" or something
<andylockran-lapt> ali1234: what other language would you recommend?
<ali1234> andylockran-lapt: any, except perl
<andylockran-lapt> what's wrong with perl?
<oimon1> oh, it does, i just have to remember to click "technical items" :-\
<oimon1> that thing gets me every time
<MartijnVdS> andylockran-lapt: Nothing is wrong with Perl
<ali1234> where to start
<ali1234> firstly, the lack of named arguments to function
<MartijnVdS> andylockran-lapt: just pass a hash
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell:
<MartijnVdS> ali1234:
<MartijnVdS> AAGH
<ali1234> this is the biggest cause of perl code being unreadable
<MartijnVdS> too many A<tab> :)
<ali1234> when every function takes a single argument, which is an array of all the arguments that the function takes
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: At work, we've made hash-of-arguments mandatory
<MartijnVdS> so %args = @_; \o/ unpacked
<ali1234> that actually does't help at all
<MartijnVdS> it does actuall
<MartijnVdS> y
<MartijnVdS> we also use a library to validate input for that
<ali1234> the next biggest problem with perl is that perl programmers abuse regular expressions for everything
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone have any bright ideas why Thunderbird is automatically marking emails as read in one of my Inboxes? It's really getting on my nerves.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: also a policy/best practices thing
<ali1234> another problem with perl is that you can redefine the language too much
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you have another client (web mail?) open on that mailbox
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: same with python
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have checked the obvious settings...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not to my knowledge no.
<ali1234> so some person like me doesn't like lack of named arguments to function - ok, well i can just redefine the language so that functions have named arguments
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's what shared libraries are for
<ali1234> and now i'm no longer writing perl code, i'm writing some butchered language that nobody in the whole world but me can understand
<MartijnVdS> \o/ libraries
<ali1234> this isn't actually all that different from writing perl code to start with, which is why this reason only comes in at number 3 n my list rather than number 1
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yeah because foo(bar => 'baz') isn't like any other perl AT ALL
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<ali1234> number 4 - use strict
<ali1234> why does every perl program begin with this line? it's like some prayer to the perl gods
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's because they made a mistake in earlier Perl versions
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: theyre considering making it default in 5.16-18
<andylockran-lapt> ok, so perl is out...
<MartijnVdS> andylockran-lapt: nah, Perl isn't out.
<AlanBell> you should never ever be in a position where you are wondering what language to use
<AlanBell> this should be dictated by the thing that you want to work on/add to
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: also, using Moose implies strict and warnings, so you can just "use Moose;" and be done :)
<andylockran-lapt> AlanBell: valid point.
<ali1234> i find it is more motivated by how much you respect the client :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/blob/HEAD:/pod/perldelta.pod
<AlanBell> if you are starting a new major project from scratch then you should already *know* what the best language is, and know that everyone else is wrong
<ali1234> if you are on good terms with the client, use python. if you don't care, use php, and if you actively want to destroy their business, use perl
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I'd swap Perl and PHP in that
<jacobw> php /o\
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: I think you are being rather too cynical. Millions of web-sites run PHP without major issue.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ?-s
<TheOpenSourcerer> I suggest it is more likely down to poor sysadmin/maintenance
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Millions of PCs run on WIndows without major issue :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> orly?
<AlanBell> and it is basically the same as ASP in terms of mixing code and html
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Just because it's popular, doesn't make it good
<TheOpenSourcerer> Never heard that one before.
<ali1234> no, but popularity makes it cheap
<TheOpenSourcerer> I never said it was good or bad. Just that it is used happily by many.
<ali1234> if you write some broken php code then there are a million developers out there who will fix it
<ali1234> if you write some broken perl code, nobody in the world can fix it except you
<TheOpenSourcerer> I know a Perl bloke. Lives near here. Runs the Jobsite site.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Senior Architect.
<ali1234> aaaaand another thing
<ali1234> this conversation started because someone wanted an easily themeable CMS right?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Plone :-)
<ali1234> well, what does programming language have to do with it? you won't be writing any php code in the process of theming a wordpress
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, not too sure about that - I had to do quite a bit to write a WP theme.
<TheOpenSourcerer> More than with Joomla!
<AlanBell> http://codex.wordpress.org/The_Loop
<AlanBell> the theme is a PHP loop
<AlanBell> it isn't hard, and the language itself is OK
<AlanBell> the bit I don't like is that everything lives in a comment in an HTML page
<ali1234> that's not actually got much to do with theming
<ali1234> theme templates - yes
<ali1234> but when you come to make your own theme, you start with an existing one and just modify the css
<Azelphur> ali1234: there is PHP in the process of theming wordpress
<Azelphur> just not a lot of it
<AlanBell> true, and there are several zillion themes out there to use
<ali1234> if you really need some kind of complex template system for theming i'm sure you could write one, if you wanted. it isn't necessary to do it though
<TheOpenSourcerer> Here's a good one: http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/open-sourcerer ;-)
<ali1234> how do you make gtk themes?
<ali1234> all the documentation i can find is for gtk 2
<jacobw> css
<jacobw> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=gtk3%20css&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFkQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdesktopsummit.org%2Fsites%2Fwww.desktopsummit.org%2Ffiles%2FTheming%2520GTK3%2520Widgets%2520with%2520CSS.pdf&ei=NgG0T6r9I5Pe8QPbu9HACQ&usg=AFQjCNEiO_JoTSSC59zWuh0qmYZIIi_LUQ&cad=rja
<jacobw> ack
<ali1234> blarg
<mrevell> bigcalm, Turns out, no car for me, so no co-work
<brobostigon> svn: OPTIONS of 'https://svn.blender.org/svnroot/bf-blender/trunk/blender': Certificate verification error: signed using insecure algorithm (https://svn.blender.org)
<daftykins> neat! :)
<brobostigon> any one know how to resolve that ? thwn i try anc checkout. according to the blender site.?
<mattt> yeah
<mattt> move to git
<mattt> *kidding*
<andylockran-lapt> well tonight has been a fail
<mattt> brobostigon: http://linux-knowledgebase.com/en/Tip_of_the_day/December/Certificate_verification_error%253A_signed_using_insecure_algorithm
<mattt> brobostigon: http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?254565-Certificate-verification-error-(https-svn.blender.org)
<brobostigon> mattt: i just found a thread on the blender forums also.
<mattt> hehehe
<mattt> probably same one
<brobostigon> yes.
<AlanBell> gord: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-accessibility/2012-May/006096.html
<brobostigon> mattt: it is the same.
<mattt> brobostigon: did it work?
<brobostigon> mattt: yes, adding that entry, into ~/.subversion/servers
<bigcalm_laptop> Cooiee
<brobostigon> blender should be fairly quick to compile, it is quite small.
<dogmatic69> is there something like htop for I/O
<ali1234> iotop?
<mattt> yeh, iotop
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> I should have guessed that one
<dogmatic69> :)
<dogmatic69> not quite as advanced as htop
<dogmatic69> ever since I plugged in my second monitor and started using twinview windows are opening up tiny
<dogmatic69> eg: http://i.imgur.com/AtF9V.png
<dogmatic69> its only windows inside apps, not the apps themselves.
<dogmatic69> seems to happen with most / all apps
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-17
<Czar> hi
<Azelphur> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404520,00.asp lmfao at this
<hbt272> hi
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I have this pastebin http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/991883/
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yes, let people pay MORE to remove crapware
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: indeed :P
<kaushal> is there a way i prepend absolute path to all the filename using gedit or notepad ++ or geany ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: not easily
<kaushal> For example /home/testuser/ffdaa/contact_us.tpl
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: there's "chroot", but that only works as root, and you'll need to install all binaries inside the chroot :|
<kaushal> so finally it would look like cp /home/testuser/ffdaa/contact_us.tpl /home/testprod/ffdaa/contact_us.tpl
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> you could put it in a variable and use that..
<kaushal> using gedit or notepad ++ or geany ?
<MartijnVdS> TEST_PATH=/home/testuser/ffdaa
<MartijnVdS> and use
<MartijnVdS> $TEST_PATH/filename
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: there are around 50 lines
<MartijnVdS> you could 'cd' to it
<MartijnVdS> and use ./
<MartijnVdS> (or nothing)
<kaushal> I think geany or some apps
<kaushal> but not sure how to do it
<MartijnVdS> I think you're trying to solve the wrong problem
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: sure
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: any equivalent software of notepad ++ available in Ubuntu ?
<MartijnVdS> Lots of text editors are
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: any specific one ?
<DJones> Morning all
<christel> morning lovelies
<DJones> morning christel
<christel> hellooo :D
<DJones> Damm, just tried to change tabs in Chrome using Alt 1, Alt 2 etc thinking I was in irssi
<MooDoo> hello all
<daubers> Is it me or is OSX Lions recovery stuff really pants?
<daubers> Failed to download overnight, now got half way through "downloading additional components" and is failing again
 * MartijnVdS gives daubers an Ubuntu CD to recover with
<daubers> We started with "about 3 minutes remaining" and are now at "about 9 minutes remaining"
<daubers> Too much of this http://xkcd.com/612/
<popey> morning all
<oimon> mornin
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> morning popey oimon AlanBell
<oimon> sorry for offtopic but do any android users know a quicker way to force close an app? always have to FC facebook and restart, and settings-apps-manage-facebook-FC is rather long winded for a process i have to do most of the time
<AlanBell> oimon: I have a program monitor widget that shows running programs and lets me exit them
<davmor2> morning all you funky morning types
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah! meh!
<davmor2> MooDoo: what?
<MooDoo> davmor2: tired and forgot my wallet
<davmor2> MooDoo: Ouch that's not a good start
<MooDoo> davmor2: no seeing as i need to buy something doh!
<arsen> wow, ive been inadvertently forced into SLED 11
<arsen> and its an awful place to be.
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski
<bigcalm_laptop> Good morning peeps :)
<dwatkins> hiya bigcalm_laptop
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: want me to be a proxy for podding davmor2?
<czajkowski> ah yes
<MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: i think czajkowski is mean enough to take care of herself :)
<bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: I don't think czajkowski arms are that long
<bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: today I am sitting next to davmor2
<MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: ah poor davmor2  ;)
<bigcalm_laptop> Like that is it then?
<MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: ;)
<MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: you going to oggcamp?
<davmor2> meh need to restart sudo issue
<oimon> AlanBell, thanks, i'll look into that
<oimon> a bit like advanced task killer?
<bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: I am indeed
<bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: you?
<MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: i am, guess i better buy you a beer for insulting you earlier :) lol
<bigcalm_laptop> \o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<mattt> brobostigon: WOOTMORNING
<brobostigon> morning mattt
<bigcalm_laptop> mattt: bit happy for a Thursday?
<mattt> haha
 * mattt tones it down
<MooDoo> mattt: put the pills away
<Linuxsapien> what file manager can anyone suggest I could try.. im using gnome comm', but it sometimes doesnt behave.
<popey> comm?
<Linuxsapien> comm'
<popey> i have no idea what "comm'" is
<christel> bigcalm_laptop: buy me beer.
<bigcalm_laptop> christel: it will be my pleasure :)
 * DJones guesses that gnome comm is "Gnome commander"
<MartijnVdS> mc, or learn how to use the shell ;)
<DJones> Linuxsapien: Assuming it is, I've never needed anything beyond Nautilus as a file manager
<MartijnVdS> if you ask me
<christel> bigcalm_laptop: excellent! not too long until RAT :D
<bigcalm_laptop> Woop woop
<bigcalm_laptop> Really looking forward to it
<DJones> bigcalm_laptop: Should that not be "Toot, Toot" as its a train
<MartijnVdS> beep beep
<DJones> Thats a road runner
<bigcalm_laptop> Swig, parp
<brobostigon> meep meep. is road runner.
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_laptop: http://ftw.popey.com/ ?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_laptop: (related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARP_inhibitor)
<popey> also, why does Linuxsapien look like he's logged in as 'root'
<MartijnVdS> Being logged in as r00t is l33t!
<MartijnVdS> also, a very bad idea
<popey> oh, okay âº
<DJones> Does the live cd do that? irc as root etc
<MartijnVdS> DJones: only if you start the irc client as root
<TheOpenSourcerer> hmm - how do I remove a directory from my personal folders in Ubuntu One?
<MartijnVdS> Live CD is usually user "ubuntu" I think
<Linuxsapien> i know, because it seems to "irritate" people, its not actually real root, but its amazing how annoyed some people get because I am "logged" in as root lol
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Ta, couldn't remember if that was the case
<MooDoo> christel: have a beer on me too!
<christel> woop
<popey> Linuxsapien: how is it not real root?
<bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: messy
<Linuxsapien> popey try not to think about it too much lol
<SuperMatt> is it just a user with the name root?
<popey> Linuxsapien: just asking. no need to patronise me
<Linuxsapien> obviously, i wouldnt be daft to really be root
<Linuxsapien> as I said, it just gets people irritated or amused when they spot it
<Linuxsapien> i aint patronising you popey
<JamesTait> Morning all!
<directhex> popey, it's just the ident sent by the irc client
<popey> sure
<directhex> which defaults to the local username, but doesn't need to be
<iclebyte> is there some global DNS issue going on?
<brobostigon> iclebyte: what are you experiencing?
<directhex> some channels prevent anyone with an ident of root from speaking. i think #debian does that
<popey> now getting pm from linuxsapien telling me to chill out
<popey> hey ho
<TheOpenSourcerer> how do I remove a directory from "My Personal Folders" in Ubuntu One? The FAQ says set it to stop syncing on the web page which I have done.
<SuperMatt> lol
<directhex> popey, sounds like hye's very convinced by how smart he is
<iclebyte> brobostigon, lots of the issues with customers not sending mail messagelabs initally, now we're getting more DNS related queries, but i'm doing the lookups on the domains from dnsstuff.com and many are failing
<TheOpenSourcerer> And 2ndly - why is U1 so slow compared to dropbox?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: blame aquarius
<iclebyte> seems to pertain to MX records
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - OK the directory has just disappeared from the U1 app on my desktop. (see I said it was slow).
<brobostigon> iclebyte: interesting good question, i havent noticed anything here.
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Perhaps thats secret, U1 is a virtual cloud storage, but all it does it backs up to dropbox via a U1 cloak :)
<popey> s/dropbox/s3/
<popey> mind you, so does dropbox iirc
<DJones> I don't why, I've hardly ever used U1, possibly because I'd got in the habit of using dropbox on ubuntu & windows, I should really give it a go
<directhex> i use u1ms. that's my only u1 usage
<directhex> pain in the bum to load up rhythmbox just to buy music though
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've been trying it but it doesn't seem as seemless as dbox and certainly feels much less responsive...
<popey> i use u1 instead of dropbox these days
 * DJones downloads the windows client
<directhex> skydrive!
<popey> all my music and photos in it
<TheOpenSourcerer> I asked it to add a new directory several minutes ago. It still isn't being listed anywhere.
<popey> to the cloud!
<directhex> i'd use skydrive for everything if it worked usefully in linux. i've got 25G free on there, which is lots
<SuperMatt> I'm waiting on google drive
<SuperMatt> cos I have 200gig worth of space with pacasa, and it can be used by drive too
<ahayzen> U1 is AWSOME ... see wht i did there ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't find something that takes more than 10 minutes to show me it is even thinking about adding a directory to my U1 should be called that. (and yes I do know why you said AWESOME)
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  @ AWS-ome
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Am now officially bored of waiting for *anything* to happen.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time for a #2 :-D
<SuperMatt> LOVELY
<AlanBell> there is a lack of a "what are you doing???" area in U1
<AlanBell> I want to see it telling me what file it is syncing and how fast it is going etc
<AlanBell> or to be able to find that if I want to care about it
<AlanBell> in a prettier way than tail -f ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: watch -n1 u1sdtool --current-transfers
<popey> there's a couple of ways to do that
<popey> https://launchpad.net/indicator-ubuntuone
<popey> !info magicicada
<lubotu3> magicicada (source: magicicada): GTK+ frontend for Ubuntu One File Sync service.. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.4.1-0ubuntu1 (precise), package size 145 kB, installed size 908 kB
<AlanBell> interesting
<AlanBell> I still don't know what it is doing though
<TheOpenSourcerer> nothing in my case apparently.
<AlanBell> magicicada shows me a big list of stuff in the folder I just added that it is supposed to upload
<AlanBell> watch -n1 u1sdtool --current-transfers shows nothing uploading or downloading
<AlanBell> tail of the log shows nothing much happening now
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: and u1sdtool --waiting ?
<popey> what do you think should be happening?
<popey> open the u1 client, does it say its doing anything?
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: shows 200 lines of stuff waiting
<AlanBell> file sync in progress according to the U1 client
<TheOpenSourcerer> I (have twice) added a directory to "My Personal Folders" as I want to sync it. But it still doesn't show up anywhere in any U1 information
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: how did you do that?
<AlanBell> I just added a folder, in order to tell TheOpenSourcerer how wrong he is, and how wonderful U1 is, but it is not nice
<AlanBell> I added the Documents folder using the U1 client
<TheOpenSourcerer> I clicked the bitton that says "Add a folder from this computer".
<AlanBell> thats what I did too
<TheOpenSourcerer> twice in the last 1/2 hr or so...
<TheOpenSourcerer> nothing. nilch, nadda
<AlanBell> mine contains 944M of assorted stuff
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mine has much less than that
<TheOpenSourcerer> ~100Mb
<popey> what if you stop/start transferrs?
<TheOpenSourcerer> tried that
<popey> and what does magicicada say?
<TheOpenSourcerer> closed the U1 client
<TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't installed that. hang on.
<popey> closing the client wont stop the connection
<popey> there's a button in the top right
<popey> "disconnect"
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have tried that too.
<MartijnVdS> u1sdtool -d
<popey> so hit that, wait a few seconds, hit connect
<AlanBell> looking at the web client mine did upload a bunch of stuff 12 minutes ago, but now I am not sure if it is doing one big file, or has given up
<MartijnVdS> or -q for quit
<MartijnVdS> then restart with u1sdtool -s
<popey> why would you assume its given up?
<popey> indeed why do you even care? just leave it running and the stuff will upload âº
<directhex> maybe. ish
<directhex> (note: often doesn't)
<DJones> I've just added a folder using the the windows client and thats syncing away very quickly I can see the files via the web interface with no problem
<TheOpenSourcerer> magiciada also doesn't show me the directory I tried to add
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: do you see the folder in the web UI?
<popey> one.ubuntu.com/files
<TheOpenSourcerer> no
<AlanBell> well it would be nice if there was a "200 files left to sync, now processing foo.tar.gz" or something in the client
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am havign a go with the magiciada thing
<popey> AlanBell: why?
<AlanBell> rather than the uninformative "file sync in progress"
<popey> why do you care?
<popey> fact is it's doing stuff, when it's finished, it will be finished âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> if it worked popey I probably wouldn't/
<popey> i have yet to hear evidence that it's not working
<popey> just lots of woe is me and wailing
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - I tried to add the dir I wanted to. Now the Folders dialogue box in magiciada is greyed out and not showing me the new dir.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am not seeing any files from my folder being added to U1. Isn't that *not* working popey?
<popey> are you seeing them in one.ubuntu.com/files ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> for the 2nd time. no
<SuperMatt> I must confess that I've had issues with ubuntu one where I've tried to sync too much in one go
<popey> maybe have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Bugs#Files_not_syncing
<TheOpenSourcerer> alord@lobsang:~/Development/Workspaces$ du -sh talend-5.1/
<TheOpenSourcerer> 145M	talend-5.1/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not very bnig really.
<TheOpenSourcerer> *big
<popey> just checked my machine at home
<AlanBell> mine seems to have stalled when the sync got to a folder with spaces in the folder name
<AlanBell> dunno if that is significant
<popey> its currently not transferring but has some waiting
<popey> so maybe there's a system wide issue?
<TheOpenSourcerer> where are the syncdaemon logs?
<popey> ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log
<AlanBell> ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty
<daubers> Wonder if I should raise a bug about that. Should really be in /var/log
<AlanBell> no, they shouldn't
<popey> nope
<popey> its user specific
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh: 2012-05-17 11:16:23,515 - ubuntuone.SyncDaemon.VM - WARNING - Duplicated create_udf request for path (ingoring it!): '/home/alord/Development/Workspaces/talend-5.1'
<popey> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> so it new I tried to sync it twice.
<TheOpenSourcerer> knew
<TheOpenSourcerer> last entry:
<AlanBell> daubers: you wouldn't want all your filenames in /var/log
<TheOpenSourcerer> 2012-05-17 11:23:45,566 - ubuntuone.SyncDaemon.Main - NOTE - ---- MARK (state: <State: 'QUEUE_MANAGER'  (queues WORKING  connection 'With User With Network')>; queue: 201; offloaded: 31002; hash: 0) ----
<popey> I would recommend joining #ubuntuone
<popey> rye is there and ready to help
<s-fox> o/
<popey> moo
<bigcalm_laptop> davmor2 appears to want to have a staring contest. That or he's lost in my beauty
 * davmor2 thumps bigcalm_laptop repeatedly
<iclebyte> it was an issue with MessageLabs Amsterdam cluster if anyone else is seeing problems.
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod fix ldtp so it works for me will you please
<czajkowski> there is stuff hapenign should be ok in half hr
<czajkowski> ish
<DJones> I must try & get U1 set up on a server
<SuperMatt> DJones: I don't believe that u1 works in command line, so it might not be worth it
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Headless
<popey> it does SuperMatt / DJones
<DJones> popey: Thanks for the link
<SuperMatt> oh, I didn't know that
<SuperMatt> not quite so easy though ;)
<bigcalm_laptop> Good soup here
<DJones> I'll have to have a look at that later, give me an error trying to start it
<DJones> http://pastebin.com/rXawzU1a
<daubers> popey / AlanBell : Ah, I take your point on log file locations
<daubers> Wonder if I can get my house renumbered to ::1
<popey> thats an error wanting x
<gord> wonder if i can get my house renamed to "'); DROP TABLE SpamTargets;"
<DJones> Yes, but its on a server install
 * TheOpenSourcerer (after patching his ubuntuone client) recalls popey's comment from earlier...
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: i have yet to hear evidence that it's not working
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: just lots of woe is me and wailing
<daubers> gord: That's a better idea!
<popey> haha
<popey> pfffft, its working now isnt it? âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> it is - thanks for introducing rye.
<TheOpenSourcerer> the patch is amazing... + "="
<popey> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> right then what's for lunch?
 * TheOpenSourcerer is looking forward to this evening. Beer and and all-u-can-eat Chinese with colleagues.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Better not have too big a lunch then.
<TheOpenSourcerer> oxtail soup?
<czajkowski> First LOPUG Meetup on Thursday 17th May, 6:45 onwards http://www.meetup.com/London-PaaS-User-Group-LOPUG/events/62834262/
<AlanBell> what are we calling PaaS this week?
<MartijnVdS> Ponies!
<popey> Ponies As A Service
<directhex> pandas > ponies
<MartijnVdS> pangolins?
<directhex> also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_QPz0ZX1Y0
<AlanBell> well it appears to be platform as a service, which is totally different to software as a service or infrastructure as a service, and anyone confusing them is just exposing their lack of hipness
<AlanBell> oh my percentage of U1 storage used has gone up, it must be doing something now :)
<popey> Popeys As A Service, it scales up well, but not down.
<MartijnVdS> popey: "*sigh* You need _another_ member of my family?"
<popey> NEED MOAR POPEY
<directhex> i wonder if minecraft multiplayer works now i have 75mbit dsl
<MartijnVdS> unlikely
<AlanBell> juju add-unit popey
<popey> hah
<popey> juju expose popey
<bigcalm_laptop> Eww
<popey> avert your gaze!
<AlanBell> eww
<davmor2> EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!
 * MartijnVdS puts the videos on youtube
 * DJones issues a takedown notice on youtube for inappropriate classification as a "U" and not "R" rated
 * drussell also ensures that the soundtrack "the full monty" is muted on the video track
<MartijnVdS> DJones: I uploaded these earlier (no popey though, he was on the other side of the planet when this was recorded ;)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MCtBsx5qO0&list=PL65507731C2EBA66A&feature=plpp_play_all
<MartijnVdS> The one week everyone was out of town for a UDS, I came to London 8-)
<popey> safe
<MartijnVdS> popey: safe?
<DJones> Arghhhhh... Will somebody give the greeks â¬xB so that the exchange markets will get some confidence back & the rates will stop going up & down like a rollercoaster
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Only if they start paying their taxes now
<DJones> The Greeks always pay for their taxi's, teh driver doesn't let them out otherwise
<DJones> :)
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  @ DJones
<gfdd> hello world
<MooDoo> hello
<s-fox> hello MooDoo
<bigcalm_laptop> Hello Moto
<MooDoo> s-fox: hello :D
<s-fox> how are you doing MooDoo  ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm doing ok thanks :D
<s-fox> good
<MooDoo> s-fox: you?
<s-fox> MooDoo,  so so, managed to fix my blog
<MooDoo> s-fox: yes i saw your tweet
<bigcalm_laptop> Anybody here done any work with ISO 8583 type messages?
<daubers> Woot! Raspberry pi now ordered :D Should be here in 3 weeks
<DJones> Quote of the day "Mr Cowdrey added that even rabbit food was VAT exempt "as they are classed as a food source, even though most rabbits are kept as pets"." Who keeps rabbits to provide food for their family?
<AlanBell> they are allowed on allotments for that purpose
<AlanBell> depending on local rules
<DJones> Its not something I've ever seen, was just reading about dog food for working dogs being at a low vat rate, while normal food used by guide dogs was at full rate, guide dogs for the blind were asking why they were penalised and that quote about rabbits was at the end
 * AlanBell wonders what VAT rate chicken feed is at. I will check the receipt next time I get some.
<DJones> should be 0 rated
<DJones> All food for poultry and game birds is zero-rated.
<AlanBell> I might have to go home via pets at home to find out
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just wandered upstairs to say hi to our Accountants.
<DJones> http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000124&propertyType=document#P208_11044 Section 8.3
<TheOpenSourcerer> And the Accountants wandered downstairs to see where we are ;-)
<DJones> That'll only be so they know where to send the bill for your visit to them
<TheOpenSourcerer> they knew that anyway :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have both recently moved offices - into the same building.
<TheOpenSourcerer> They have rather more Sq feet than we do...
<DJones> Yes, but you went to visit them, so they'll have to raise a bill now, no doubt round it up the nearest full day, so a 10 minute visit will cost you a days time for them
<DJones> Thats why they can afford more Sq feet then you
<TheOpenSourcerer> Actually, and amazingly, they aren't that bad.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But your point is noted
 * TheOpenSourcerer sends a wol packet to his desktop in the "other" office
<DJones> Where I used to work, if you looked at anything for a client, you had to charge a minimum of 15 minutes to the client, even if it only took a minute, some staff could charge an 8 hour day by the late morning tea break
<Myrtti> ah yes, remember the background image I did some time ago, the one I wondered about the 0 or O as round as possible?
<Myrtti> if anyone is interested what was the actual inspiration for that, then https://plus.google.com/100016383867666174158/posts/Ta5ttm27oqd - finally done and in my finger
<Myrtti> if animated gifs aren't your thing, I'm sorry
<SuperMatt> pretty damn sweet!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Arghhhhhhh! The VPN connection dialogue has now disappeared from the network indicator menu jobby wotsit.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it has?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - my defined connection setting are still there when you go into "Edit Connections..." But there is Connect to VPN item.
<TheOpenSourcerer> This bloody upgrade is the worst EVAH.
<MartijnVdS> Anything in the log (/var/log/syslog)?
<MartijnVdS> It's still there for me...
<MartijnVdS> maybe you don't have the relevant network-manager plugin installed (anymore)?
<TheOpenSourcerer> it was there yesterday evening.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I'd start with checking syslog
<TheOpenSourcerer> what for?
<MartijnVdS> for something concerning VPNs
<MartijnVdS> (3G sometimes drops from my menu as well)
<TheOpenSourcerer> The menu item when you click on the network indicator is missing.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not that the VPN doesn't work. I can't start it.
<popey> the packages are still installed?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Yeah that happens for my 3G modem as well sometimes
<popey> network-manager-openvpn etc?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't uninstall them
<popey> i didnt ask that âº
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it just disappears from the menu for a few minutes sometimes, and then the log is being spammed
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: killing/restarting nm-applet might help too
<mattt> TheOpenSourcerer: time to switch to mac os x
<bigcalm_laptop> Is it home time?
 * mattt jokes
<mattt> bigcalm_laptop: yea, packing up now
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: They are still installed according to apt.
<popey> is there a network manager log?
<TheOpenSourcerer> how do I kill restart the indicator?
<MartijnVdS> popey: yes, in /var/log
<MartijnVdS> it uses syslog
<popey> ah
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: kill "nm-applet"
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it might auto-restart, if it doesn't just restart manually
 * bigcalm_laptop slithers away homewards
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Restarting the applet has returned my missing menu items - thank you.
<TheOpenSourcerer> now. What was I about to do before I was hindered by incredibly buggy software.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: filing bugs? :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh no that was it. Connecting to a customer's VPN.
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: did you by any chance change your network config?
<popey> set a static ip for example?
<TheOpenSourcerer> nope.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I turn my PC off at night.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That is all.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It gets woken up by WOL for backups and then shutdown again during the night.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't reconfigured networking on this machine at all. It's just plain old dhcp over eth0
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now I am going to turn it off again and go and drink lots of beer. :-)
<mattt> someone say beer?
<mattt> and on that note, heading home
 * mattt is afk
<Darael> Got an interesting problem here - not Ubuntu-specific, but maybe someone can point me at a better channel to ask in?  The network connection I'm on is reasonably fast - for the first couple of seconds of any connection, after which it drops to about 2kbps.  Cancelling downloads and resuming gets another chunk at high speed, but it's a right pain for dist-upgrades.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: http://www.bufferbloat.net/ ?
<MartijnVdS> Darael: Or maybe the PC and switch/router disagree on duplex mode
<MartijnVdS> Darael: (full/half duplex)
<MartijnVdS> maybe path mtu discovery doesn't work because of blocked ICMP?
<Darael> It's not a duplex-mode disagreement, I'm sure of that.  Buffer bloat sounds plausible.  How might I test for blocked ICMP?
<MartijnVdS> Darael: did you set a local firewall?
<MartijnVdS> (iptables)
<Darael> I haven't, as I recall, but it's been eight months or so since I've seen this network.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: setting local mtu lower would probably work
<MartijnVdS> Darael: ip link set eth0 mtu 1000
<MartijnVdS> Darael: iptables-save shows all current iptables rules
<MartijnVdS> Darael: (default mtu for ethernet is 1500)
<MartijnVdS> (in case you want to reset it :))
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Sorry about that; I'm flip-flopping between a 3G dongle and the wired connection in order to have a functioning connection when not testing something, and it plays merry hell with my SSH session (running irssi in screen elsewhere) even though I don't disconnect the dongle.  Sodding network-manager.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: ip route -- switching the default route should be enough :)
<MartijnVdS> Darael: did you get my list of commands to try?
<Darael> When I reconnected my screen session, yes.  Thanks.
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KeyboardShortcuts
 * popey chuckles at Ctrl + Alt + Delete 
<popey> "Restart the computer immediately, without saving open files "
<MartijnVdS> it saves open files otherwise/
<Darael> Well, it gives programs a chance to block the restart and ask you to save files, IIRC.
<popey> (It doesn't actually work thankfully)
<Darael> Not if you do it from the command-line, naturally, but if you use the "shutdown" menu item, as most users will.
<Darael> /Actually/ restating without saving is just a sudo shutdown -r now away.  Or a sudo reboot.  Or, in emergencies, REISUB.
<Darael> Although I have had lockups that didn't respond to 'magic sysrq keys' before.  Generally graphics-related.
<Darael> MartijnVdS: After mucking with my routing table a bit to ensure this link stays up when I set the default to the ethernet... that certainly seems to have made a difference.  Thanks.
<Darael> Hmm, or not.
<Darael> This is very odd.  Maybe it's just HTTP connections, which, considering I know there's no proxies involved, is very odd.
<zleap> where does ubuntu cache .deb files ?
<directhex> /var/cache/apt/archives
<zleap> thabks
<zleap> do i use that for things like aptoncd
<zleap> I want to create a custom install cd
<zleap> ok aptoncd seems to list what is in there anyway
<AlanBell> wow, just logged on to a new server and run top, pressed 1 to get per-core breakdown of activity and got the message that the terminal wasn't big enough to display it :)
<AlanBell> 24 cores
<AlanBell> or 12 hyperthreaded
<zleap> nice,
<majster-pl> Hello! Any one tried to get free stickers from System76 through Ubuntu UK Team ??
<zleap> no sorry
 * zleap is making a custom cd
<majster-pl> I send it few days ago and yesterday I get my envelop back from Royal Mail saying the addressee unknown... ?
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> are these raspberry pI stickers
<DJones> majster-pl: Which address did you send the request to
<majster-pl> DJones, The Linux Emporium, Bridge House, 17a Maybrook Road, Sutton Coldfield, Birmingham, B76 1AL UK
<DJones> Try this address http://shop.linuxemporium.co.uk/merchandise/ubuntu.html?SID=b29cafeaefb9bc1d1e61c27cc091f6fc
<DJones> They may have moved premises, that link has got an address direct from the linux emporium's own website
<majster-pl> DJones, thanks, I will try this address then...
<DJones> good luck
<majster-pl> :D
<zleap> is the idea behind aptoncd thast I point a package installer at the cd iso or cdrom with the contents on so it installs from cd
<jacobw> chow
<ali1234> 18 months and unity still can't keep track of which display a window is on
<AlanBell> wayland will fix it
<ali1234> does wayland even have a window manager yet??
<ali1234> i saw that wayland on raspi demo the other day. no window manager yet
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItv4HX5r3k
<ali1234> that's state of the art for wayland apparently
<directhex> from the FAQ:
<directhex> How can I replace Wayland's Window Manager?
<directhex> The Wayland architecture integrates the display server, window manager and compositor into one process. You can think of Wayland as a toolkit for creating clients and compositors. It is not a specific single compositor or window manager. If you want a different window manager, you can write a new one.
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> "you can write a new one"
<ali1234> and nobody has even written an old one yet
<directhex> the video you posted isn't the state of the art for wayland, it's current progress on porting wayland to the rpi's broadcom graphics chip
<ali1234> what is state of the art then?
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdKwSrwxIYA
<ali1234> that appears to have some rudimentary window management
<ali1234> though for some reason every window looks different and some have no decoration at all
<directhex> the state of the art is running a port of xeyes! http://willthompson.co.uk/misc/wayland-eyes/weston-eyes.webm
<ali1234> also i love the next paragraph of the FAQ
<directhex> very short version: window decoration on x is handled by the window manager; on wayland it's provided by the app itself. every window looks different to test different ways of doing things with different toolkits. it's all semi-proof-of-concept right now.
<ali1234> great, so i have to look forward to the bad old days of X11 where every app looks completely different?
<directhex> sure, if you assume what you see now has any bearing on the end result
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install weston
<ali1234> how long before it actually graduates beyond proof of concept?
<AlanBell> and you can run some rather poor terminals in a window
<AlanBell> ali1234: 12.10 funnily enough in a strange way
<ali1234> oh?
<AlanBell> there will probably be a system compositor, so wayland from start to finish
<AlanBell> very very cut down wayland/weston
<AlanBell> running full screen X
<ali1234> and how long before it can completely replace X11?
<AlanBell> bit longer
<ali1234> just for local usage i mean
<AlanBell> but it does run now, in a window or from a terminal it runs as a full thingie
<ali1234> i gather X11 wil always be required as a network protol at least
<AlanBell> not neccessarily
<AlanBell> gtk applications run in weston already if you turn off the canonical kookieness
<ali1234> not over the network
<AlanBell> liboverlayscrollbar and global menus
<AlanBell> X11 might not be the best over the network protocol in the world evar
<ali1234> it probably is though
<ali1234> i don't know any other one that works with *everything*
<AlanBell> it isn't going away soon
<ali1234> vnc certainly isn't an adequate replacement
<AlanBell> no, it isn't
<AlanBell> but something gtk level might be
<AlanBell> something that would allow you to move a running application from one place to another
<AlanBell> like screen for GUI applications (yes, I know of the things that kinda do that)
<ali1234> yeah, but what about Qt?
<ali1234> what about things that don't use either?
<AlanBell> no idea
<directhex> eventually? i anticipate X compatibility layer foo
<ali1234> yes, me too
<ali1234> ie just the protocol
<AlanBell> I expect things to use toolkits that support it
<AlanBell> and I expect the X compatibility stuff will exist
<AlanBell> but right now I can't have an application running on a server but presenting on my laptop disconnect itself and turn up on my phone without stopping
<ali1234> so you basically expect everyone to rewrite all legacy software using a modern toolkit?
<AlanBell> eventually, yes
<AlanBell> but that might be a 20 year timeframe
<AlanBell> I will have my flying car by then
<christel> !
<ali1234> in 20 years wayland will be deprecated in favour of something else
<ali1234> if people were prepared to learn how to use well-engineered software properly wayland wouldn't even be necessary
<bigcalm> Will you care in 20 years? ;)
<ali1234> probably, i know i sound like a grumpy old man but i'm only 31
<ali1234> tbh i'll still probably be using X11 in 20 years
<directhex> the core X engineers i know think wayland is the future and X is a pile of poopy. i have reason to trust their opinion
<ali1234> i don't disagree
<ali1234> i just don't have any confidence in wayland actually delivering something usable before i die
 * AlanBell readys the cryochamber for ali1234 
<ali1234> on a completely different subject, when mdtool says "Build complete -- 1 error, 0 warnings" how do i find out what the error was?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-18
<ali1234> !gksu
<lubotu3> If you need to run graphical applications as root, use Â« gksudo Â», as it will set up the environment more appropriately. Never just use "sudo"! (See http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/graphicalsudo to know why)
<AlanBell> erk, I broke something
<TheOpenSourcerer> oh dear
<TheOpenSourcerer> anything important?
<AlanBell> I was doing a do-release-upgrade over SSH, it was nearly done but asked some question or other about the config files for snmpd (nothing important)
<AlanBell> and the ssh connection dropped overnight
<TheOpenSourcerer> ah
<AlanBell> I can ssh in, something is locking /var/lib/dpkg/lock
<AlanBell> not sure whether to restart and hope, or do some other commands first
<TheOpenSourcerer> if nothing "dpkg'ish is running why not just delete the lock or pid?
<AlanBell> there is a dpkgish thing running
<TheOpenSourcerer> kill it gently?
<AlanBell>  /usr/bin/dpkg --force-overwrite --status-fd 13 --configure libgdbm3 libclass-isa-perl perl-modules . . .  and a big long list of hundreds of packages
<TheOpenSourcerer> hmm.
<AlanBell> just after I started the upgrade it occurred to me I should have done it in a screen session
<TheOpenSourcerer> or nohup it with an &
<AlanBell> it asks questions
<TheOpenSourcerer> ah yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> which machine is this then?
<AlanBell> a brand new one, I can get it re-imaged if required
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh I love it when I click on a running icon in the launcher and it fails to take me to the app on another workspace. That is so helpful.
<AlanBell> ok, killed it and did dpkg --configure -a and it seems to be asking the same question
<AlanBell> upgrade finished, lets see if it reboots
<AlanBell> yay \o/
<popey> when you do do-release-upgrade it opens a new ssh server i thought
<AlanBell> it does
<AlanBell> but that doesn't help you to know what to do with it, SSH to the original port worked fine
<popey> i guess it was waiting for you to type something
<AlanBell> it was
<AlanBell> I could see the question, then the disconnect
 * TheOpenSourcerer prepares to head off to the office. Gah - commuting sucks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
<popey> haha
<TheOpenSourcerer> My commute is about 10 minutes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Neat little device: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/new-74-android-mini-computer-is-slightly-larger-than-a-thumb-drive/
<daubers> Morning
<diplo> See if I can get this Irssi configured nicely now!
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<ali1234> http://www.webupd8.org/2012/02/window-applets-finally-available-for.html interesting
<ali1234> heh. i think i've found the perfect desktop configuration for precise
<ali1234> gnome fallback (no effects) with compositing enabled
<ali1234> turns out all the weird bugs in gnome-panel 3 are caused by compiz
<ali1234> this is pretty good. i thought i was going to have to fix loads of bugs in barely supported gnome panel, but it turns out it actually works fine
<ali1234> also i can now get 60 fps in games, where as with compiz everything was capped at 30 fps
<diplo-> Any Irssi users out there recommend a theme to save me trying lot's :)
<ali1234> irssi has themes?
<diplo-> irssi.org/themes
<diplo-> Find the default a bit hard to read
<ali1234> hmm actually there is still one bug in gnome-panel that i need to fix
<soreau> ali1234: compiz 0.9.x is the unstable version ubuntu uses as a base for their unity desktop. If you want to use compiz, I'd recommend the stable version, 0.8.x
<ali1234> i don't!
<Myrtti> diplo-: if you end up using mine, I've hot updated versions of them somewhere
<ali1234> i just want transparent terminal. metacity gives me that
<soreau> ali1234: Also there is a setting to allow fullscreen games to run 'without' compositing, unredirect fullscreen windows
<diplo> Which is yours Myrtti ?
<ali1234> soreau: yes, i know, it does nothing with nvidia
<popey> i dont think i use a theme for irssi
<popey> just a bunch of plugins
<soreau> ali1234: ok
<diplo> Do you amend any of the colours then popey  ?
<ali1234> i guess ezoom would be nice to have
<popey> i have a thing that colours nicks
<soreau> yes, zoom is very nice
<Myrtti> I thought it says on there who has made them
<ali1234> maybe metacity can do that to though
<diplo> Hmm that may work
<diplo> So it does Myrtti
<diplo> :)
<Myrtti> the two on the top you're work fine on white in black background too
<ali1234> gotta say, i never had any problems with compiz before unity :/
<Myrtti> lol Swype
<ali1234> i mean it was never speedy, but it worked
<Myrtti> auto correct fail
<soreau> ali1234: Yes, they introduced unity the same time they switched to 0.9.x, in 11.04
<soreau> it used to be 0.8.x which still works great
<ali1234> so... where do i get compiz 0.8.0 for precise?
<ali1234> some ppa?
<ali1234> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff?
<soreau> ali1234: Unfortunately, I do not know of any ppa for it but you can build it from source. I've recently helped a number of people build it and updated the build guide on the compiz wiki
<ali1234> fair enough
<popey> diplo: http://popey.com/~alan/irssi.png  thats what my irssi looks like
<soreau> ali1234: Here is the link in case you're interested http://wiki.compiz.org/Installation/Stable
<ali1234> thanks
<diplo> The nicks certainly make a difference popey, Got any recommendations ? Seems quite a few on the site :(
<diplo> Again don't want to try to many till i get used to Irssi
<soreau> ali1234: You'd just want to use --disable-gnome for core since the gnome-specific parts only support gnome2
<diplo> Rather try stuff that others think are good
<ali1234> soreau: have you actually tried compiz + gnome-panel 3 and observed (or not) any of the problems?
<popey> diplo: adv_windowlist.pl  bitlbee_rename.pl  dictcomplete.pl  hilightwin.pl  nickcolor.pl  screen_away.pl  trackbar.pl  twirssi.pl
<diplo> ta fanx :)
<popey> diplo: ignore bitlbee_rename.pl and twirssi.pl
<soreau> ali1234: I'm using it currently and haven't noticed too many issues..
<ali1234> eg panel flickers, window list background is wrong colour, application menu is ghosted for no reason...
<popey> but  adv_windowlist.pl hilightwin.pl nickcolor.pl screen_away.pl
<Myrtti> splitlong.pl
<popey> are useful
<popey> and trackbar.pl
<soreau> ali1234: hm, that sounds like graphics driver and/or compiz ubuntu patches problem
<popey> compiz 0.8 will be missing performance stuff added by ubuntu
<ali1234> popey: pull the other one, it's got bells on
<soreau> popey: 0.8 is faster than 0.9 and stable
<popey> i am serious
<Myrtti> cap_sasl.pl
<ali1234> well, i'll give 0.8 a try
<ali1234> i assume installing it will totally break unity
<soreau> ali1234: yes, unity will not work with 0.8
<soreau> ali1234: If you need any compiz-specific help though, I'm also in #compiz
<soreau> but I'm also in .us so just ask and be patient ;)
<soreau> for now I have to get some rest, gnite
<ali1234> "bleeding-edge version of stable" lol, what?
<diplo> Nick color loaded \o/
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, people! :D
<ali1234> soreau: i'm normally on US time anyway, despite being in the UK
<soreau> ali1234: yes, you can pull the very latest from git 0.8 branches or use the packages on releases.compiz.org.. the build guide should explain everything
<soreau> If it doesn't, let me know
<ali1234> i'll take notes
<diplo> Oh I like adv windowlist popey, that was one of the things I didn't like
<diplo-> ..
<diplo> Running /save will remember Servers/Channels joined ?
<SuperMatt> You know, I can never remember how to do that
<diplo> Going to read docs tonight so can tell me to RTFM if you like :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<ali1234> good morning!!!
<brobostigon> good morning ali1234
<ali1234> :-D
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<gord> hurrah, i got my stupid annoying flashing google pin thing working again
<ali1234> google pin?
<gord> little badge thing with six flashing led's in it, one for each letter
<brobostigon> sounds cheesy.
<popey> i grabbed 4 for my kids
<diplo> Something from UDS ?
<ali1234> i assume from the google sideshow/party
<popey> ya
<popey> the very odd google party
<diplo> Didn't know about that part :)
<ali1234> "nerds are weird right? so we should make a really weird party for them" /google reasoning
<diplo> heh
<ali1234> did you not get funny looks going through the airport with loads of flashing LED stuff?
<popey> mine were in my case
<popey> although my case did get opened by the TSA
<ali1234> yep
<popey> probably because I had a tablet and 20 yubikeys in it
<popey> (the LEDs weren't flashing)
<ali1234> my brother came back from aus with a bag with 500 cage nuts in it
<ali1234> yes, they opened his case
<diplo> yubikeys ?
<ali1234> it's a security thing
<ali1234> i think it does two factor. not sure on details
<diplo> ah I think I've seen those in Linux Format
<ali1234> mt.gox gave them away to anyone who got robbed when they were compromised
<brobostigon> so similer to the google authenticator app, thingie?
<popey> yes
<brobostigon> but thats hw, insted of software?
<popey> yes
<brobostigon> sounds interesting.
<brobostigon> i can think of a few applications, for something like that.
<popey> you can use one with google logon
<brobostigon> like the authenticator app.
<diplo> looks quite good
<diplo> Something that should be taken up by banks, I think hsbc or similar send out rsa style things, but I'd rather have something like that for login to my web services for banks etc
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> brobostigon: instead of or in addition to the authenticator app
<brobostigon> popey: ah, i like the idea, would be interesting to experiement with.
<ali1234> hmm... close but no cigar
<ali1234> compiz 0.8 works much better than 0.9...much faster, no bugs with gnome panel etc
<ali1234> but for some reason window decorations are missing
<ali1234> i guess i did something wrong
<ali1234> woo, window decorations
<ali1234> and no bugs
<SuperMatt> \o/
<ali1234> still manage to get 60 fps in games too
<brobostigon> the yubikey isnt cheap though, $25 each.
<popey> $15 if you buy loads
<ali1234> free if you get robbed of bitcoins on mt.gox :)
<popey> hah
<brobostigon> popey: quite yes, but little need for loads,
<ali1234> so you know that annoying bug where you can't click in the settings window of flash? fixed by reverting compiz to 0.8
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning MooDoo  me owld mucka how's life
<MooDoo> davmor2: not bad thanks
<ali1234> metacity has the 1 pixel resize handle bug
<ali1234> of course, only with light-themes
<ali1234> adwaita is slightly better, the handles are about 3 pixels wide on that one
<SuperMatt> why are you using 0.8 again?
<ali1234> because 0.9 is slow, crashes all the time, renders white rectangles instead of the window, makes the panel flicker and the wrong colour, makes the menus ghosted for no reason, makes pop up menus resize for no reason, prevents you from using the flash settings, and makes logging in to the system take 45 seconds
<ali1234> and yes, all of these bugs have been reported
<ali1234> i just never realised so much trouble could be caused by one application
<SuperMatt> how did you install it?
<ali1234> from source, according to the compiz wiki
<SuperMatt> ah right
<SuperMatt> hassle /o\
<ali1234> http://wiki.compiz.org/Installation/Stable
<ali1234> well, feel free to keep begging for ubuntu developers to fix compiz 0.9
<ali1234> it's been a year now
<ali1234> probably longer
<ali1234> this is just begging for a fork so that the last actually working version of compiz can be put into the repos
<AlanBell> are these just nvidia bugs?
<ali1234> i don't know and i don't care
<ali1234> considering that nvidia is the only decent graphics card that work linux
<gord> ati seems to work pretty well now
<ali1234> last time i tried the fglrx it worked about as well as nouveau
<diplo> though irc had gone a bit quiet, my byobu session had disconnected :(
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/878198
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 878198 in metacity (Ubuntu Precise) "Difficult to grab window borders in unity-2d" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ali1234> of course unity-2d uses metacity
<ali1234> anyone know a good theme for gtk3 that doesn't have 1px borders?
<AlanBell> just change the border size of the light theme
<ali1234> i said a *good* theme
<ali1234> so annoying
<ali1234> that bug could easily be fixed, but of course it would break all the unity-2d stuff
<ali1234> so nobody can fix it, and when we complain about it we just get the "send a patch" flip off
<ali1234> from people who know very well that a patch will not be accepted
<ali1234> bug even has a patch to light-themes
<popey> bug 985119
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 985119 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "[soundnua]: doesn't offer 'Analogue stereo Output' option" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985119
<ali1234> weird bug
<ali1234> what's the actual problem?
<ali1234> missing hardware tab and no volume slider normally means pulseaudio crashed and can be fixed by restarting
<ali1234> (or logging out and logging in to gnome classic)
<ali1234> or just pulseaudio -D in a terminal
<popey> i am having trouble getting my head round it
<ali1234> basically ignore all th words and just look at the two screenshots
<popey> hah
<ali1234> well, imma blame pulseaudio
<awilkins> Anyone else going to NHSHackDay?
<popey> never heard of it
<popey> until just now ;)
<bigcalm> Afternoon peeps :)
<diplo> ello bigcalm
<davmor2> prods bigcalm
<bittin> now i installed Ubuntu aswell on my new PC :>
<davmor2> prods czajkowski
 * bigcalm kippers davmor2 
 * davmor2 can't believe that bigcalm would waste that amount of money on kippers
<DJones> Afternoon all
<bittin> Hello
 * bittin updating my fresh 12.04 install
<awilkins> Hmmph, I think Virgin are resetting sthings
<diplo> Like what awilkins
<awilkins> Their customer services website for starters
<awilkins> 503
<awilkins> Just had my network drop for about half a minute
<diplo> We had issues on work business line yesterday, better now though
<diplo> Virgin *
<MooDoo> due to all the upgrade happening i bet
<awilkins> I hope so.... it may mean it's imminent
<awilkins> Dropped out in the night a day or so ago as well
 * bigcalm shudders at the thought of VM connectivity issues
<awilkins> Mine is basically either rock steady or stupidly unreliable
<awilkins> The stupidly unreliable period persists until they upgrade the infrastructure to cope with the new tranche of torrenting kiddies they signed up with their latest marketing campaign.
<awilkins> I think the period we had here was really just CPU load on the local router from all the connections that BitTorrent spams ; the ping times were ludicrous, just to that first hop
<DJones> Ahhhh, day off, car passed its MOT, and a bottle of wine, Can the day get any better
<SuperMatt> two bottles of wine
<dogmatic69> DJones: day off, car did not need a MOT, and a bottle of wine?
<SuperMatt> still could be better with two bottles
<dogmatic69> :D
<SuperMatt> also plum wine > *
 * diplo not like wine :(
<diplo> tbh, not the greatest lover of alcohol, can drink lager and a few spirits, but can just as easily go without now adays
<diplo> Total opposite to my brother and dad who are quite heavy drinkers
<SuperMatt> I found the easiest way to increase the amount you drink is to have a student for a girlfriend
<diplo> :p
<popey> DJones: minecraft would perfect it
<gord> i stopped playing minecraft for a bit, now it has experience and spells and all this other weird stuff so its strange and confusing to me
<gord> i remember when it was about being lego :(
<DJones> popey: Waiting for a new map, I blew the last one up with TNT
<diplo> Never played minecraft
<diplo> Didn't want to lose my life to it :)
<DJones> popey: We did a tunnel from my house to Laura's and then to the end portal, filled that with tnt after the dragon was killed & let rip :) about 1000 tnt blew
<directhex> minecraft is one of those toys which i have trouble with, due to my lack of creativity
<daftykins> am i the only one that's amused by video not working on ubuntu 12.04's 'example' video after a clean install? :) i get audio but no picture :D it's using HD theora apparently
<daftykins> directhex: +1
<directhex> and they're trying to make minecraft be a game rather than a toy
<directhex> i am unconvinced
<daftykins> FYI i refer to "How Fast.ogg"
<awilkins> I'm more interested in 0x10c
<awilkins> Sounds like CoreWar, only it might be fun
<directhex> AlanBell, know anyhing about zimbra? you alans strike me as the types
<BigRedS_> I know a little bit about it, but I'm not an Alan
<popey> daftykins: filed a bug?
<daftykins> can't be bothered
<popey> nice
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> well, my last one of Guernsey regionality got nowhere after 2 years
<daftykins> i see no likelihood for improvement
<daftykins> :P
<popey> awesome stats there
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> also is it me, or does LibreOffice Writer default to US English?
 * popey wanders off
<daftykins> heh
<popey> just tested it, works fine her
<popey> +e
<daftykins> the vid?
<popey> (the video on a clean system)
<daftykins> interesting
<daftykins> in movie player yeah?
<popey> yes
<daftykins> and you selected to install the codecs during installation?
<popey> no
<daftykins> i didn't to begin, but put them on from the software centre after, made no change
<daftykins> i know it's theora but no idea if it's meant to be included
<AlanBell> directhex: I have come across zimbra, didn't like it much
<AlanBell> it is a big collection of stuff
<AlanBell> we don't do email, because people get cross if their email doesn't work
<diplo> AlanBell: Now that is a very sensible decision! :)
<AlanBell> we use zentyal for our own email
<diplo> I have the challenge of setting up and playing with that soon AlanBell
<diplo> Got a test box and the software, just need to find some free time to tinker
<bigcalm> ctrl + c doesn't seem to be transmitted by a remote terminal, any thoughts?
<bigcalm> It's a Debian server, but that shouldn't make any difference
<diplo> Someones remapped it ? Our place has remapped Ctrl C to Ctrl O
<diplo> Off to take boy disco / swimming, bbl
<bigcalm> Whatever the default in Debian 6 is. I know nothing of these things
<ali1234> wow, how do you remap ctrl-c?
<BigRedS_> and why would you?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> just curious how you would do it
<bittin> yay i has new PC :)
<brobostigon> \o/
<popey> hello from my boxee rrremote
<popey> hmm
<AlanBell> herrrro popey
<popey> hmm
<popey> dont think the RPi has enough juice to power the usb radio
<popey> now it wont boot
<ali1234> fun
<ali1234> i found where they've been hding the "good" themes for gtk3: http://www.jpfleury.net/en/software/clearwaita.php
<popey> seems it overheats
<popey> http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5900
<ali1234> why am i not surprised?
<ali1234> blaming PSU lol
<popey> leave it a moment it now boots
<popey> and the boxee remote works, yay
<ali1234> wow the cluelessness in that thread is amazing
<ali1234> blame the PSU, overclocking, SD card... anything but the beloved raspi!
<popey> lol the debian image has big buck bunny on it
<popey> "test.h264"
<ali1234> yeah it's the only piece of copyleft h264 that exists
<popey> âº
<popey> we all got sick of the sight of it when testing ubuntu tv
<simondbull> popey: I may have jumped on the bandwagon, and placed your beach ball image on some backgrounds
<simondbull> https://plus.google.com/photos/118208921696356153553/albums/5743606583534121649
<popey> lovely
<simondbull> apologies if it did cause any offence, though
<popey> nah
<simondbull> thanks :)
<popey> nobody has photoshopped me into the nuremburg rally yet
<bigcalm> Oh my
<simondbull> oh my indeed!
<ali1234> that sounds like a job for someone who loves controversy
<popey> heh, the .bash_history on a debian image someone else created is chuckleworthy
<popey> (specifically the rpi image whch has xbmc on it)
<MartijnVdS> popey: this is why I intend to create a bare Debian install for myself
<MartijnVdS> popey: with debootstrap
<popey> the xbmc startup script has this as the last line...
<popey> "sudo ./xbmc.bin"
<popey> le sigh
<ali1234> nice
<ali1234> course the very fact the file even exists is a huge wtf
<popey> the image is just debian with xbmc in /opt
<popey> that seems to be _it_
<ali1234> remember a couple of years ago when it was all the rage to install ubuntu, make a few tweaks, and then tarball the / and call it a respin?
<popey> heh
<popey> people still seem to do that
<popey> ultimate edition anyone?
<ali1234> not so much
<popey> maybe
<MartijnVdS> Automatix!
<ali1234> it's pretty much died off since anyone who wants to tweak stuff basically cannot anymore due to unity
<popey> mint/zorinos manage it
<ali1234> that reminds me, what the best way to kill overlay scrollbars?
<popey> remove the package
<ali1234> the askubuntu page is very out of date
<gord> why would you need sudo to start xbmc?
<popey> overlay-scrollbar
<popey> indeed gord
<popey> welcome to my world
<ali1234> gord: probably because of the messed up driver architecture on raspi requiring root for opengl support
<MartijnVdS> likely
<popey> it doesn't need root, i am running it now without root
<MartijnVdS> popey: submit a bug
<ali1234> it might not need root *now*
<popey> que?
<popey> its an image
<ali1234> it might have done when they were testing it
<MartijnVdS> popey: maybe it works with fewer features?
<popey> this is the same stuff they would have been testing
<ali1234> oh wait i thought you were still talking about the .bashrc
<popey> no
<gord> nothing in xbmc requires root
<popey> haha, the big buck bunny video is in /root
<popey> so that xbmc can find it
<gord> unless maybe you screwed up your permissions and you need root acess to install plugins or whatever
<gord> i saw big buck bunny in 3d on my 3ds today :) nintendo paid for another company to convert it to 3d
<ali1234> yeah...removing overlay-scrollbar didn't actually remove the overlay scrollbar
<ali1234> maybe i need to fully reboot
<ali1234> nope
<AlanBell> remove libappmenu.so
<AlanBell> or the package that puts it there
<AlanBell> I moved mine out of the way whilst playing with weston
<ali1234> http://www.tuxgarage.com/2012/05/disable-overlay-scrollbars-in-precise.html
<ali1234> ^ that actually works
<AlanBell> oh, hang on, I just told you how to remove global menus
<ali1234> global menus don't work in fallback session anyway
<AlanBell> or wayland
<ali1234> though there is a panel widget you can get that is supposed to do it
<ali1234> i need to try that
<AlanBell> I dunno why the canonical stuff doesn't work
<ali1234> i do but this is a family friendly channel
<AlanBell> seeing as they want to go to wayland, it would seem sensible to avoid doing stuff that won't work with it
<ali1234> since when have they ever done anything sensible?
<ali1234> i think the last time was about 4 years ago
<soreau> AlanBell: The DX team they have for unity isn't the greatest
<davmor2> gord: I've seen all 3 bit to that on mine
<ali1234> hey soreau
<AlanBell> I am sure there is something sensible in unity
<ali1234> i got compiz 0.8.8 working, sort of
<AlanBell> lenses are sensible (except for the apps lens)
<soreau> hi
<ali1234> except that every time i start it the settings are "everything turned off"
<ali1234> and i have to manually run gtk-decorator --replace
<ali1234> and login sessions that are supposed to start compiz can't find it and so they start metacity instead
<soreau> AlanBell: I'm hoping the wayland architecture will force them to take a step back and redesign many of the core concepts on which they rely
<ali1234> but apart from that it works much better
<soreau> ali1234: Did you install 0.8?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> after manually starting up all the bits and configuring/enabling all the plugins, it works really well
<ali1234> much faster than the default version
<ali1234> i mean like twice the framerate
<soreau> ali1234: To auto-start compiz (hopefully you removed all the compiz 0.9/unity packages) you want to make a script called /usr/bin/compiz and in it, but compiz --replace ccp
<soreau> ali1234: I told you it's faster :)
<ali1234> also all the bugs with the panel went away
<soreau> ali1234: anyway, make the script executable of course
<ali1234> of course
<ali1234> what about gtk-decorator etc?
<soreau> ali1234: put gtk-window-decorator --replace in ccsm>window decoration>command field
<ali1234> ah i see
<ali1234> ok, gonna try it
<diplo> evening all
<ali1234> soreau: would it be possible to fork 0.8 just to rename it, so it can be installed easily beside 0.9?
<ali1234> s/possible/easy/
<soreau> ali1234: It would be more sensible to just create a proper ppa
<ali1234> but if it has the same name you can't install it beside unity...
<soreau> ali1234: Alternatively, you can install it into a nonstandard prefix such as /opt
<soreau> ali1234: Why do you want to install it alongside unity? The two are incompatible
<ali1234> so that i can easily demonstrate how much worse 0.9 is to everyone i ever meet
<soreau> ali1234: You can install 0.8 to /opt and create scripts to run it
<ali1234> that's too much hassle
<ali1234> for normal people
 * soreau has been meaning to make his 0.9 build script build 0.8 optionally
<ali1234> it needs to be a PPA, and it needs to work side by side with unity
<ali1234> now afaik the only way to make that possible is to rename eveything
<soreau> but now I invest most of my efforts in wayland/weston
<soreau> ali1234: You probably can even create packages that install to /opt
<ali1234> right testing autostart
<ali1234> soreau: all worked, thanks
<ali1234> this is basically flawless now
<yothsoggoth> does anyone know if there's something wrong with the Rhythmbox package for precise? I removed it and when I reinstalled the command "rhythmbox-client" is no longer found.
<soreau> ali1234: Great, glad to hear it
<ali1234> yothsoggoth: according to dpkg, /usr/bin/rhythmbox-client is part of rhythmbox package
<ali1234> so it should work...
<ali1234> i thought it might be in dependent package, but it's not... although maybe it's really missing something else
<ali1234> so check if that file exists, if it does, run it with strace
<ali1234> command not found can also indicate missing libraries (and it won't tell you)
<ali1234> so also try ldd /usr/bin/rhythmbox-client
<yothsoggoth> ali1234: I managed to fix it, seems I must have been missing a library, after purging and reinstalling it seems to be there
<ali1234> so this finally happened: https://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:FB
<bigcalm> Evening peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: is it me or is it just going down?
<ali1234> well t'sa bit early to say
<ali1234> but yeah
<oimon> anyone noticed this as an alternative low cost ARM PC? http://www.webupd8.org/2012/05/mk802-new-usb-thumb-drive-sized-android.html
 * oimon has been faffing
<ali1234> that's no more a PC than it is a phone or a tablet
<oimon> around to sim unlock my phone from t-mobile tonight :-\
<oimon> i didn't even realise phones were sim locked to networks anymore
<ali1234> well... they are?
<ali1234> typically there are multiple levels of security
<oimon> yeah, so it appears when i tried to attach a giffgaff sim
<ali1234> operator lock, firmware lock, application lock
<ali1234> nearly all of them can be defeated with the right type of cable
<oimon> why is mobile network a security move?
<ali1234> because they can
<oimon> for financial security
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> all of them are for financial security
<ali1234> you think they care if you brick the phone? only if it costs them money
<ali1234> you think they care if you install unsigned malware? etc
<oimon> they don't care enough to keep me as customer though
<ali1234> of course not
<oimon> althogh they did call me 3 days after i requested PAC code with an improved offer
<oimon> by then it was too late
<ali1234> the only type of customer retention they understand is a 24 month contract and alocked handset
<oimon> :(
<oimon> sadly true
<oimon> i will have the same issue with home adsl/phone provider soon
<oimon> only way to get a decent price is to cancel
<ali1234> they call it churn
<ali1234> they know you'll go somewhere else after 2 years, and they know you'll be back after another 2 years
<ali1234> you can buy hundreds of reports about who is churning in and out, sorted by demographic
<ali1234> i've never seen one that measures the customers who stay
<oimon> i had to tell t-mobile that even if the contract was even lower i couldn't choose it because the signal (in london) is lame and i can't use it where i need it
<ali1234> i've never had any problems with t-mobile in london
<ali1234> or any mobile network for that matter
<ali1234> signal wise
<ali1234> i wonder if screen recording works better with this old compiz
<ali1234> kazam is pretty good now, with the monitor selection :)
<ali1234> needs a nicer indicator icon though
<oimon> i found a fantastic tool in windows that ubuntu needs, called psr
<ali1234> google isn't helping, what is it?
<oimon> it records all of your actions and screenshots and prepares a html page of everything you did,for support purposes
<DJones> ali1234: problem step recorder
<ali1234> interesting
<oimon> it's fantastic
<oimon> when installing software on windows server i click record before going through the install
<oimon> for my colleagues and the wiki
<ali1234> yep, screen recording with kazam works flawlessly with compiz 0.8 and nvidia driver
<ali1234> no blank windows, huge shadows etc
<ali1234> oimon: that does sound good
<oimon> it would be ssuper useful when reporting bugs
<ali1234> when i set up a linux server i just keep a copy of all the commands i type :)
<oimon> because it records left-click , time stamps etc
<ali1234> then if i ever need to do it again i already have a script i can just run
<oimon> yeah
<oimon> think of the application for recording actions for ubuntu bugs though
<oimon> a lot of them are "i clicked here and here".
<oimon> it records version numbers of software too
<oimon> oops, bedtime...see you all
 * Azelphur tries a dist-upgrade to 12.04
<Azelphur> inb4 explosions \o/
<ali1234> radio 4 repeating on the hour now
<ali1234> radio 4 extra, whatever that means
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/radio/bbc_radio_four_extra/listenlive
<Azelphur> hmm, I'm doing the upgrade to 12.04, it says installing the upgrades
<Azelphur> and in the terminal it just says "Extract templates from packages: 100%" | "Preconfiguring packages ..." | "Extract templates from packages: 100%" | "Preconfiguring packages ..."
<ali1234> don't upgrade. don't you ever learn?
<Azelphur> and it's been hanging there for about an hour now
<Azelphur> ali1234: lol
<ali1234> it's probably popped a debconf dialog somewhere where you can't see it
<ali1234> i think i remember seeing a bug about that when looking for something else
 * Azelphur plays hunt the debconf dialog
<Azelphur> ali1234: yep, bastard of a thing :P
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-19
<Azelphur> ali1234: I found a video of exactly what happens with my G19, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA3rdFelo1U \o/
<Azelphur> seems like I'm not the only one haha
<diplo> Morning all
<gordonjcp> morning
<popey> Morning
<christel> goooood morning
<soreau> morning
<christel> :)
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
<MartijnVdS> Launch thingy in a few minutes
<AlanBell> cool
<AlanBell> T-37 minutes
<AlanBell> thunderbirds are go!
<MartijnVdS> Commercial space launches
<MartijnVdS> This _is_ the future
 * popey wonders if this is on telly anywhere on Virgin
<popey> does anyone else get pauses on flash video on 12.04?
<MartijnVdS> popey: they're calliing it a webcast
<MartijnVdS> no pauses for me
<popey> wish i could figure out what causes it
<popey> it stutters every few seconds
<popey> just a brief pause in the playback
<MartijnVdS> popey: it might be on NASA TV or ESA TV if you can get one of those
<MartijnVdS> popey: which graphics card?
<MartijnVdS> popey: a more boring stream is on nasa tv (just the view of the launch platform, not the presenters)
<popey> intel
<popey> full screen doesn't seem to do it
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'm on Intel graphics as well
<popey> its every 2 seconds
<popey> no stuttering in the stream, audio is fine, just video
<popey> i think it's related to the gpu acceleration
<MartijnVdS> could it be an a/v sync issue of some kind
<MartijnVdS> where every 2 seconds the delay triggers a "resync"?
<MartijnVdS> wait
<MartijnVdS> my _other_ windows do the delay thing
<MartijnVdS> while the video is playing
<soreau> popey: running compiz?
<soreau> or unity
<popey> both
<popey> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HjK7AkqhplY/T7daeX6g27I/AAAAAAAA8jY/RiVLRybDrWs/w497-h373/Image1.png
<popey> spot on
<MartijnVdS> hhahaha :)
<popey> doesnt look like virgin carry nasa tv or esa tv
<MartijnVdS> aww
<MartijnVdS> I bet XBMC does though :P
<AlanBell> what is the local time at the launch site?
<popey> GMT-5 isnt it?
<MartijnVdS> Florida
 * popey adds florida to his date/time indicator
<popey> so yeah. 04:50
<soreau> T-0:30 ;)
<MartijnVdS> abort
<soreau> haha
<soreau> windoze bsod
<AlanBell> aww
<soreau> oh well
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<czajkowski> morning
<brobostigon> morning czajkowski
<popey> afternoon
<brobostigon> afternoonings popey
<Laney> greetings
<alexcockell> Hi all..
<kvarley> My SD card reader is no longer mounting in ubuntu precise. Any ideas on what I can try?
<MartijnVdS> unplug, plug back in
<MartijnVdS> use different card, see if it works
<MartijnVdS> Use disk utility ("palimpsest") to see if it's detected at all
<czajkowski> hmmm the battery icon looks odd on update
<czajkowski> most ugly
<popey> how so?
<kvarley> I made an image of a single partition (/dev/sdb1) using dd. However when I do dd with the of=/dev/sdb it makes the partition but it doesn't update the partition table on the device, is there a way I can do that manually?
<czajkowski> popey: http://twitpic.com/9msmw2/full
<popey> erk, that doesnt look right
<czajkowski> popey: yup a few of us have gotten it on latest updates
<czajkowski> fugly
<popey> is there a bug filed
<popey> bug 956833
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 956833 in Ubuntu Translations "Precise Desktop - battery indicator - "Batterie (chargÃ©-e)" should be "Batterie (chargÃ©e)"" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956833
<popey> not that
<popey> lp seems dead for me
<MartijnVdS> wfm
<popey> maybe my net connection is ropey today
<MartijnVdS> ropey popey
<czajkowski> and it's gone back to normal
<czajkowski> just like that.....
<popey> hah
<popey> did you reboot or update or something?
<czajkowski> nope nothing
<czajkowski> most odd
<czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/9mstqm/full
<bigcalm_laptop> Good afternoon peeps :)
<popey> yo
<MartijnVdS> bigcalmster
<bigcalm_laptop> What's happening?
<popey> nothing whatsoever
<gord> i dunno, i did a bit of cleaning before i got bored of that and had a nap, thats something, kind of
<czajkowski> popey: http://twitpic.com/9mtp01/full
<czajkowski> changed again
<popey> czajkowski: anything in ~/.xsession-errors
<exaem> Greetings
<popey> hello
<exaem> How are you all?
<popey> tickety boo thanks
 * MartijnVdS has been putting custom firmware on APs
<MartijnVdS> Some openwrt compatible APs are cheaper than rpi (but don't have hdmi, sadly)
<moreati> MartijnVdS: how do those APs compare CPU/RAM wise?
<MartijnVdS> moreati: lots less RAM too (32MBish), CPU is a bit slower too, and MIPS not ARM
<MartijnVdS> however, â¬20 vs â¬35 :)
<MartijnVdS> and 4x ethernet + 1x wifi
<MartijnVdS> + 1x USB
<moreati> Wow, didn't know MIPs was still used for anything
<popey> which AP?
<popey> moreati: heavily used in TVs
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?model=TL-MR3220
<MartijnVdS> that one
<MartijnVdS> popey: its bigger brother works too: http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?model=TL-MR3420 (300MBit instead of just 150)
<MartijnVdS> I've got mine working as a client, with an 8GB USB stick plugged in with a "root" (well, /overlay) filesystem
<MartijnVdS> moreati: Almost all APs currently on the market are some kind of MIPS
<MartijnVdS> moreati: More and more ARM is coming, but not from the big manufacturers yet, and then only in high-end
<moreati> TIL... :)
<mattt> ugh, too much sports on the tv today
<MartijnVdS> mattt: qixl tonight
<mattt> MartijnVdS: as long as it doesn't overlap w/ champions league :P
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<czajkowski> popey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/995985/
<mattt> czajkowski: watching heineken cup ?
<czajkowski> mattt: mattt 20 mins to kick off :)
<DJones> Afternoon
<mattt> czajkowski: yay
 * mattt is afk
 * penguin42 returns from a mini-maker fair
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: a fair for mini-makers or a mini fair for makers?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: The latter
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: how was it
<MartijnVdS> See anything new & cool?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmm so so, I'm not very arty - someone I know had  a mechanical turing machine there; 2 laser cutters, 3d printers, vinyl cutters etc out - things like laser cut wooden hinges and the like
<MartijnVdS> cool
<AlanBell> anyone not filled out the government open standards consultation yet? http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/
<AlanBell> everyone can do so
<AlanBell> the more the merrier
 * Flashtek lols @ http://www.fmotl.com/BailiffsDCAs.htm
<penguin42> anyone finding tab complete on BASH variables in 12.04 being odd? like if I do    export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$PWD/lib and hit tab it's \ing the $ rather than expanding it
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: shopt
<MartijnVdS> also.. LD_LIBRARY_PATH is usually not what you want
<MartijnVdS> http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Admin/ld-lib-path.html
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Why shopt? I've not changed anything
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: the default might have changed
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: or something that used to be unconfigurable is now configurable (again, with a different default)
<MartijnVdS> Or maybe in /etc/bash_profile / /etc/bashrc
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: So you're suggesting something may have changed somewhere - does it happen to you?
<MartijnVdS> I never use it like that
<AlanBell> wifey just called out from the other room that "the bloke in this advert looks just like popey"
<AlanBell> and yes, it is that one
<brobostigon> lol :)
<DJones> Was there a beachball in the advert?
<MartijnVdS> and hawaiian shirts
<directhex> Flashtek: you know Freemen On The Land don't exist, right? they have never won in court, once, in history
<popey> bah!
<czajkowski> evening folks
<MartijnVdS> popey: Now you have to write a book? :P
<czajkowski> popey: good weekend ?
<penguin42> cool;rtl-sdr working
<popey> MartijnVdS: haha
<popey> AlanBell: just showed wifey that advert
<popey> "it's only because you have the same hair... and build... oh wait, yeah, thats you"
<AlanBell> lol
<bigcalm_laptop> Cooiee
<popey> oi oi
<AlanBell> hi-de-hi
 * Laney eyes bluetooth
 * bigcalm_laptop tickles popey
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you in london any time this week
<czajkowski> could do with getting some cds off you
<czajkowski> for flossie
<bigcalm_laptop> popey: things are about to go boom
<popey> oh?
<czajkowski> will also ask in the tower but just on the off chance there are none
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I was just wondering how to get them
<AlanBell> to paula
<bigcalm_laptop> popey: want to come watch?
<AlanBell> so yeah, I will try and get to London next week
<czajkowski> popey: you coming to the tower this week ?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: lemmie ask on monday to see if I can save you some anyways
<czajkowski> ohh rush hour 3 on in a wee bit
<czajkowski> having such a movie day, first weekend not travelling in weeks
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: which channel?
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: TCM
<czajkowski> oh no wait lemmie just check that
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: channel 4 @ 9:45
<MartijnVdS> hmm.. I have that in HD :)
 * MartijnVdS looks at the clock
<MartijnVdS> 22:36
<czajkowski> hmm
<AlanBell> off by one error
<czajkowski> you're an hour ahead of yourelf
<czajkowski> *yourself
<MartijnVdS> I'm not on the island :)
<czajkowski> aslways confuses me
<AlanBell> czajkowski: just picture MartijnVdS wearing cloggs and you won't forget again
<AlanBell> one g
 * MartijnVdS spins a windmill using tulips
<czajkowski> AlanBell: scared from https://plus.google.com/photos/fromphone/5741486531401030338
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: ?
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: if a link scares you, open it in incognito mode ;)
<AlanBell> I do seem to take a lot of pictures of chickens
<czajkowski> AlanBell: so does jon, as well as cows
<czajkowski> most disturbing
<jussi> AlanBell: chickens and kubuntu cds... narrrows eyes...
<AlanBell> can't do that any more :(
<AlanBell> oh, I haven't removed and booted the 11.10 CD yet
<jussi> AlanBell: I still have like 50 cds.. :P
<AlanBell> I have 49
<AlanBell> actually a few less, I stuck kubuntu CDs in with Ubuntu CDs at random
<jussi> riddell sent me a bunch when 10.04 was a bit old already
<AlanBell> nobody really asks for kubuntu CDs. If they want it then they have already downloaded it themselves
<ali1234> does anyone actually use kubuntu in preference to, say, opensuse?
<AlanBell> my chickens do
<AlanBell> I believe there is a healthy kubuntu user community
<czajkowski> ali1234: hi meet jussi
<czajkowski> jussi: is active in the Kubuntu community
<jussi> o/
<ali1234> jussi: why do you use kubuntu in preference to opensuse?
<jussi> actually Im am testing GS currently, but will go back to Kubuntu
<mattt> GS ?
<ali1234> gnome-shell i suppose
<mattt> ah
<jussi> gnome shell
<jussi> ali1234: stability, debian based, Ubuntu community
<jussi> oh and awesome people
<ali1234> technically, do you think kubuntu has the same level of quality as opensuse's kde?
<jussi> I havent overly used opensuse, but I would say so, given my tiny amount of experience.
<ali1234> i only have a couple of hours experience on either
<jussi> I found certain things about open suse annoying.. including the lack of jockey
<ali1234> jockey has broken my systems about as many time as it has helped, that's a problem common to all of ubuntu htough
<jussi> I ve not had issues with it except in devel releases
<jussi> but many of my issues were much to do with insufficient knowledge than much else
<jussi> and debianish habits
<ali1234> in my short test i thought opensuse had a much nicer default setup for kde
<ali1234> where as kubuntu seems to be just default KDE grafted onto ubuntu
<jussi> ali1234: thats the point kubuntu is attempting to be a kde showcase.
<jussi> so we work very closely with upstream
<ali1234> so it's not intended that anyone actually uses it?
<jussi> yes!
<ali1234> it's just to demonstrate what KDE is like before you polish it?
<jussi> is it not intended that anyone uses kde in its vanilla state? why does it need polishing?
<ali1234> it doesn't need polishing... it's just better if it is
<jussi> we wrk with upstream to provide the polish, rather than trying to carry our own patches
<czajkowski> forgot how jackie chan is funny
<mattt> this is becoming an interesting champions league final
<popey> czajkowski: not planned to go to the tower
<czajkowski> popey: no worries
<AlanBell> are you in the tower this week czajkowski?
<czajkowski> hmm I've 5 ladies precie tees to give away think friday might be a good way to give them to people
<czajkowski> AlanBell: yarp
<czajkowski> also if anyone wants a launchpad sticker dm me and we can arrange to get them to you
<czajkowski> Myrtti: ping
<czajkowski> Myrtti: would you like a precise womens tshirt as well it'd be nice to give you one and you won't be at flossie
<mattt> any recommendations for a relatively inexpensive laptop for running ubuntu?
<ali1234> ebay
<mattt> more interested in brands/models, than where to buy :)
<ali1234> anything
<mattt> lies
<czajkowski> mattt: dells?
<ali1234> ok, anything made by dell, hp, asus, or lenovo
<AlanBell> I would go along with that actually, something a couple of years old on ebay with a core i3 processor or above, then max out the ram and shove an ssd in it
<ali1234> avoid dual gpu laptops and you will not have any problems unless you get really unlucky
<ali1234> you're just as likely to get something genuinely faulty as something that doesn't work with linux
<mattt> true
<mattt> are there any non-apple laptops that have a similar build quality, and usable trackpad?
<mattt> i can't stand PC trackpads :(
<ali1234> what's a trackpad?
<ali1234> the little nubbin joystick thing?
 * popey hugs his lenovo with the little nubbin joystick thing and a middle mouse button
<czajkowski> mattt: why not go to a shop and try some , first thing I do is try the trackpad and keyboard
<popey> all non-apple trackpads suck
<popey> IMO
<mattt> popey: +++
<popey> and the apple ones suck in linux
<mattt> honestly i can't stand PC laptops
 * daubers stops tiling for the night
<mattt> but linux on macbook is clunky :(
<mattt> czajkowski: yeah, i just fear they'll all disappoint me :P
<popey> i cant see myself getting anything other than a thinkpad for the forseeable future
<ali1234> and also you said inexpensive
<mattt> ali1234: relatively ... meaning i don't want to spend 1k or above
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> i wouldn't spend more than Â£500 on a laptop and i'd probably only go that high if it was brand new
<ali1234> on ebay i wouldn't pay more than Â£200 and it would have to be a really nice one
<popey> http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/zareason-zatab-ships-with-cyanogenmod-9-and-root-access-20120518/
<popey> interesting device
<mattt> popey: yeah, i have a feeling it has to be a thinkpad ... which model you running?
<czajkowski> mattt: each to their own, best to try adn see, something always is a better than something else on a laptop that you want but a trade off
<popey> x220
<Laney> two factor auth is muchos annoying when you're incapable of remembering where your phone/keys are at any given instant
 * popey hugs 2fa.py
<AlanBell> how much is that dell ultrabook going for?
 * christel tickles czajkowski 
<AlanBell> the devops one
<mattt> czajkowski: true, i'm sure there have to be good pc laptops out there
<popey> mattt: i paid Â£792.62 for mine
<mattt> that's not too bad, if it's a good laptop
<mattt> i may have to buy used tho, don't want to invest that much in something i may not end up using
<Azelphur> I don't even see the need for 2fa personally
 * Azelphur has secure passwords
<ali1234> AlanBell: starts at Â£949
<mattt> anyway, thanks for the suggestions
<Azelphur> btw, my friend bought me diablo 3
<Azelphur> works at all max graphics in wine :D
<ali1234> but does it actually work properly?
<Azelphur> yep
<ali1234> i mean eve runs on max graphics, but transparency effects don't work, so you might as well put it on minimum graphics since it looks exactly the same and runs 3 times faster
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> I can take a screenshot I guess
<ali1234> and then compare it to a windows screenshot :)
<ali1234> no point showing it to me
<mattt> ali1234: what laptop do you use ?
<Azelphur> ali1234: did you see the video I linked you last night btw
<Azelphur> "last night" 6am in the morning
<ali1234> can't remember
<Azelphur> ali1234: I found a video of exactly what happens with my G19, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA3rdFelo1U \o/ [2012-05-19 00:33:52]
<ali1234> well, did you try turning off mobile phone?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> interestingly I seem to be getting better results (at least so far) by routing the cable away from all the other cables on my desk
<Azelphur> phone doesn't seem to trigger it though
<ali1234> every single cable from my computer goes through the same trunking
<ali1234> so i doubt that's it
<Azelphur> could be a manufacturing defect, I also probably have a lot more USB devices than you
<ali1234> i kind of doubt that
<Azelphur> I have a full 10 port hub and every port on the machine used
<ali1234> it could be a hub topology issue i suppose
<bigcalm_laptop> Buying from the Software centre. If I buy any install on one machine. Do I have to buy again to install on another machine?
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<ali1234> i dunno, i've never bought anything
<Azelphur> I took the cable a totally different route to all the other cables, will see
<DJones> bigcalm_laptop: http://askubuntu.com/questions/40097/what-restrictions-are-there-on-paid-applications May help
<bigcalm_laptop> DJones: ta
<DJones> http://askubuntu.com/questions/7825/do-i-need-to-re-purchase-software-in-the-ubuntu-software-centre-if-i-reinstall suggests you have the option to reinstall & you're asked for your login details
<DJones> bigcalm_laptop: Once you sign in to the account that you used to buy the software, Ubuntu Software Center will display your purchases for reinstalling.
<czajkowski> hmmm rubbish bin looks like it has contents, but is in fact empty
<bigcalm_laptop> DJones: like steam then. Good to know, ta :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Tempted to buy bit.trip runner
<bigcalm_laptop> Sleepy time I fear
<bigcalm_laptop> Toodles
<ali1234> hmm anyone else got a page widening bug on launchpad?
<czajkowski> a what ?
<ali1234> when the page has a horizontal scrollbar for no reason
<czajkowski> ali1234: nope looking fine here
<ali1234> firefox?
<czajkowski> chrome
<ali1234> that will be it then
<ali1234> i'll report it
<czajkowski> no checked in firefox also
<czajkowski> ali1234: can you take a screen shot
<ali1234> i've done a video
<czajkowski> not seening anything in the channel either
<ali1234> might be multimonitor related too
<ali1234> the whitespace is about the size it would be if the window were stretched across both monitors
<czajkowski> ali1234: right but thats not a lp issue though
<ali1234> also it only affects bug pages
<ali1234> i beg to differ
<ali1234> since it does not affect any other website
<czajkowski> ali1234: well if you file the bug I'll be the one triaging it :)
<czajkowski> so will ask the developers but given not seen any of them mention it before
<ali1234> well it only just happened
<ali1234> i mean like i was literally browsing LP and then it started happening
<Myrtti> czajkowski: sure, sorry I was at a board gaming day the whole day
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZA0-yL-ECE
<czajkowski> Myrtti: if you want email me an address to post it to and will pop in the post next week
<ali1234> bug only happens when logged in
<AlanBell> ali1234: happens for me too
<ali1234> confirm bug 1001800 then please :)
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1001800 in Launchpad itself "bug pages are wider than the browser window in firefox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001800
<ali1234> what the test version of launchpad called? something.launchpad.net
<Laney> staging
<ali1234> thanks
<ali1234> heh, staging still uses my old LP password
<Laney> qastaging might be newer
<Laney> in terms of code revisions
<Laney> i don't think the launchpad database is copied over to the staging instances that often
<ali1234> it appears to be fixed on qastaging?
<ali1234> but not staging
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1001181
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1001181 in Launchpad itself "Bug, branch and merge proposal views have large amounts of horizontal overflow in Firefox" [Critical,Fix committed]
<ali1234> blarg
<ali1234> marked as dupe
<czajkowski> hmm should not have looked at work mail and back log
<Laney> indeed
<czajkowski> though have now my rt queue up to date
<czajkowski> and tranlsations and licence review for projects
<czajkowski> looking at lp bugs now
<ali1234> hmm google now gives you a canned bio and discography right on the search page for bands/singers etc
<ali1234> i like
<AlanBell> gosh, is that the time
<AlanBell> good night Americans and insomniacs o/
<yothsoggoth> good night!
<ali1234> http://signature.microsoft.com/under-the-hood.aspx
<ali1234> what is that picture at the top supposed to be?
<yothsoggoth> lmao
<ali1234> windows: once you remove the trialware it only slightly deforms your laptop
<daftykins> i walked through the grounds next to Portsmouth University's student union and saw a Microsoft tent pimping Windows 7 and laptops Â¬_Â¬
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-20
<ali1234> so?
<daftykins> just a bit horrifying
<daftykins> heh i love Microsoft's sites
<daftykins> http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/
<daftykins> spot the repetition? :)
<yothsoggoth> Yeah, they had that microsoft tent thing at my university
<szymon_g> hi
<szymon_g> anyone alive here :)?
<yothsoggoth> yeah
<daftykins> ...for now
<szymon_g> ok, i got an error duriing installation of ubuntu; now my /etc/apt/sources.list is almost empty (they are only 3 entries pointing to cdroom). is there any easy way to correct that?
<daftykins> yeah, which version?
<szymon_g> 12.04. but i've found its copy, so its ok now :)
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<szymon_g> anyway- how can i stop a module from loading during boot? i mean: my graphic card isn't properly working on open drivers, during normal boot system hangs with unusable screen
<daftykins> crisis averted
<szymon_g> removing quiet and splash options from grub doesn't help
<daftykins> so it's dying even before X, on the boot logo?
<szymon_g> yes
<daftykins> i'd either install a proprietary driver, configure X to use something else or look up how to disable whichever one is failing hard
<daftykins> but off hand i have no idea how to disable nouveau for example, for nvidia
<ali1234> you have to use jockey from the terminal
<ali1234> !jockey
<szymon_g> "jockey"?
 * ali1234 pokes lubotu3
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/6521/how-can-i-reconfigure-the-nvidia-proprietary-drivers-from-the-command-line-ssh
<ali1234> the second answer is better
<daftykins> time to boot into that kernel update
<szymon_g> hm... 287mb of disk and 90 new packages to install just to install drivers :/
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/138736/which-packages-provide-the-pictured-gnome-panel-applets
<szymon_g> how secure is the "home folder encryption"? can root gain an access to files encrypted with it?
<szymon_g> what if he will change the password of that user, and than log in with it?
<ali1234> szymon_g: changing the password and logging in isn't enough
<ali1234> however if the user is logged in at the same time as root i'm not sure
<ali1234> at the very least they could probably steal the encryption key directly from /dev/mem, though it would be none-trivial
<ali1234> or make a keylogger etc
<szymon_g> does ecryptfs use aes-ni features of newer processors (better sandy bridge, all ivy bridge, trinity etc)?
<szymon_g> if yes: what are the performance benefits?
<mirkoslavko> hello everyone
<mirkoslavko> !!
<mirkoslavko> :)
<mirkoslavko> anyone not sleeping? :)
<daftykins> about to leave
<mirkoslavko> ok
<daftykins> >:D
<mirkoslavko> just a short question :)
<daftykins> oh?
<mirkoslavko> how to make ubuntu 12.04 look like windows 7
<mirkoslavko> want to trick some of colegues into believing they are using win7 as we are now switching to ubuntu totaly
<daftykins> hahaha
<mirkoslavko> i found youtube and other tutorials for older ubuntu versions
<mirkoslavko> :)
<mirkoslavko> yeah
<mirkoslavko> :)
<daftykins> tbh i don't even run it, maybe someone else will have an idea
<mirkoslavko> but they dont work for 12.04
<mirkoslavko> ok
<mirkoslavko> what do you u use?
<mirkoslavko> debian?
<daftykins> ubuntu server for servers, win7 on desktop+laptop :)
<daftykins> ooh, and ubuntu on my HTPC
<daftykins> but that just boots into XBMC really \o/
<mirkoslavko> interesting chocie for htpc
<mirkoslavko> xbmc is linux version also?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> windows, mac, linux
<daftykins> even on iphones and ipad now D:
<mirkoslavko> niiicee
<yothsoggoth> For making ubuntu look like Windows 7, you could use either XFCE or KDE and install a Windows 7-like theme
<mirkoslavko> thank you yothsoggoth
<yothsoggoth> no worries
<mirkoslavko> xfce is some program to install before?
<mirkoslavko> do you maybe have some link or tutorial
<mirkoslavko> i am also interested also in changing position of menue and task bar to be like win7
<yothsoggoth> XFCE is a Desktop Environment, as are KDE, Gnome, etc.
<yothsoggoth> one second, I have a great link somewhere for a list of these...
<yothsoggoth> http://askubuntu.com/questions/65083/what-different-desktop-environments-and-shells-are-available
<mirkoslavko> aha
<mirkoslavko> kde looks like win7 menues
<mirkoslavko> thank you again
<yothsoggoth> if you wanted, you could use Kubuntu or Xubuntu, which are Ubuntu spins designed specifically with the different desktop environments
<daftykins> nn all
<daftykins> i'm off
<yothsoggoth> good night daftykins!
<yothsoggoth> mirkoslavko: You might find this interesting: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/?content=104232
<mirkoslavko> good N ;)
<yothsoggoth> I haven't used it or anything, I just found it searching now, but it looks like it might be what you're looking for
<mirkoslavko> and kubuntu is basically ubuntu just with different look?
<mirkoslavko> ubuntu 12.04?
<yothsoggoth> Yeah, pretty much
<ali1234> what? no way
<yothsoggoth> You can just install Kubuntu on your normal Ubuntu install if you like, but Kubuntu is specifically built with KDE in mind
<ali1234> kde is very different
<ali1234> much more than just the look. the whole design philosophy is totally different
<yothsoggoth> Ah, my bad. I thought it was just like a spin that focuses on using KDE and KDE-related programs. What's so different about it?
<mirkoslavko> i read on one link: If you have regular Ubuntu installed, you can also install it from the Software Center, just look for kubuntu-desktop in it.
<mirkoslavko> BUT i tryed this and it doesnt work
<mirkoslavko> it cant find it
<yothsoggoth> Once you've installed it, you have to log off
<yothsoggoth> Then in the login screen you have to select KDE as the desktop shell
<yothsoggoth> I think that's how it's done anyway, I'm just guessing based on my experience of installing other desktop environments. Can anyone confirm?
<ali1234> yothsoggoth: oh it is. but KDE is a lot more than just unity with different graphics
<ali1234> same base packages though
<mirkoslavko> yothsoggoth i cant install it
<yothsoggoth> ali1234: Ahh, yeah I didn't mean to imply it was just graphically different, my bad.
<yothsoggoth> mirkoslavko: Why not? Do you get an error or does nothing happen once you've installed it?
<mirkoslavko> no
<mirkoslavko> i go where all the sofware is: dash home
<mirkoslavko> and type in kubuntu desktop
<mirkoslavko> and it says cant find it
<yothsoggoth> You won't find it in there, it's not a program that you just run... See what I wrote above, about logging out and selecting it from the login screen
<mirkoslavko> yes i understand that
<mirkoslavko> but how to install it
<ali1234> actually if you go to the apps lense and put in "kubuntu-desktop" that should give you the option to install it i think
<ali1234> note the -
<ali1234> but be warned, it installs LOADS of stuff
<ali1234> also you might have o use an advanced package manager like synaptic to find the metapackage
<mirkoslavko> where is apps lense?
<ali1234> you open the dash and then click on the second small icon at the bottom
<yothsoggoth> ali1234: Does that app lens suggest to install things? That's neat
<ali1234> yes, if they are not installed
<ali1234> the main dash used to, but everyone hated it
<mirkoslavko> aha found ubuntu software center
<ali1234> in software center you might need to select "show technical items" or something
<ali1234> i dunno, i never use any of that stuff
<ali1234> you should really try a livecd anyway
<ali1234> KDE isn't for everyone
<ali1234> but then neither is unity
<yothsoggoth> ali1234: Yeah, I remember it being in the main dash, I'd just assumed it had been taken out altogether when I didn't see it there. Admittedly I didn't use Unity for long though, I found it a little annoying with dual monitors
<ali1234> heh
<ali1234> multimonitor support got better
<ali1234> but i still had to quit it due to the other bugs
<mirkoslavko> well i dont like unity for left bar and top bar
<mirkoslavko> i feel like caged a bit
<mirkoslavko> i like linuxmint
<mirkoslavko> looks
<mirkoslavko> it feels more open
<ali1234> you can get the old gnome-panel back quite easily you know
<yothsoggoth> I used it in 11.04 and 11.10, but in 12.04 I can't stand the Sticky Edges thing, so I switched to Cinnamon the day after upgrading to 12.04
<ali1234> cinnamon on multimonitor? u mad?
<mirkoslavko> i like lubuntu also
<mirkoslavko> but i am affraid of limited options
<mirkoslavko> or maybe less drivers
<ali1234> seriously, go with gnome-panel on gnome 3
<mirkoslavko> i have to decide about one distribution of linux for all our office computers
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/YVjUdnCziej
<stgraber> apt-get install gnome-session-fallback on a clean Ubuntu 12.04 sounds much easier and it's supported (by Edubuntu) for 5 years
<yothsoggoth> ali1234: It was the first thing I was suggested trying to replace Unity. It is pretty unreliable though, it completely freezes every couple of hours leaving me to entirely restart X
<ali1234> yothsoggoth: that's caused by compiz
<ali1234> you can either switch to metacity and enable compositing, or install an old version of compiz
<ali1234> either works fine
<yothsoggoth> ah, I'll give that a try tomorrow
<yothsoggoth> How are people finding the HUD? Is it getting a good reception?
<ali1234> depends who you ask
<ali1234> if you ask me you get a big fat NO
<yothsoggoth> yeah, I can't say I liked it much myself
<yothsoggoth> Usually when there's something I want to use in a toolbar, I don't know what it's called anyway so it slows my down trying to figure out the name for the feature to find it with the HUD
<yothsoggoth> Well, time for me to get some sleep
<yothsoggoth> good night all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> hello popey
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> hello czajkowski
<popey> hmm, i am getting the wrong battery icon like czajkowski had
<Nafallo> so do I
<Nafallo> it's popey's fault...
<czajkowski> popey: oh I had a day of it changing see my twitter pics
<czajkowski> every 2 mins it changed
<czajkowski> ad only behaved when I plugged it in
 * popey reboots
<popey> hmmm
<popey> czajkowski: file a bug?
<popey> found it, bug 1001229
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1001229 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Precise) "wrong icon for the power indicator after last 12.04 update" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001229
<dwatkins> I finally upgraded to 11.04, perhaps I'll even go to 12.04 soon.
<Flashtek> lol
<Flashtek> i remember when i was initially running Gentoo.. by the time I upgraded everything there was another 500mb of updates to download and install
<stilia-johny> hi guys!
<stilia-johny> I am from greece and the last 7 months i am living in uk (london) is ther any Ubuntu comunity?
<popey> hello stilia-johny
<stilia-johny> hi
<popey> we have a community in the uk, yes âº
<stilia-johny> and how can i be a member? if is available?
<popey> we dont have a formal membership process
<popey> we have a mailing list (link in the /topic) and this irc channel
<popey> we have a launchpda group
<stilia-johny> there is no forum?
<popey> there is, but nobody uses it
<stilia-johny> pf..
<stilia-johny> and i thought tht the forum works better!
<popey> you are entitled to that opinion âº
<popey> many disagree âº
<stilia-johny> ok lets make a question now! i want to move my boot folder and my grub2 in a partition!
<Laney> slow launchpad is slow
<popey> stilia-johny: as its sunday, its not very busy here, probably better asking support questions in #ubuntu or on http://askubuntu.com/ for a quicker response
<stilia-johny> i have windows ubuntu and backtrack in my pc.. and i want to make a small partition to put my boot folder and my grub2 and some ISO's
<popey> I'd probably use gparted on a live cd for that
<popey> then copy the data over and then edit my fstab
<BigRedS> I think it'd be nice to have scheduled fscks happen on shutdown rather than only on boot, especially for a desktop. Is there somewhere I shoudl be looking to see if someone's already proposed this?
<BigRedS> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/report-problem suggests ubuntu-devel is the place rather than launchpad
<BigRedS> which seems a bit ad-hoc
<penguin42> BigRedS: I'm not aware of anything that's suggested it, for those who unplug their machine or if a laptop put it in a bag that would be BAD - but I can see for a desktop to do it and then power off I agree it would be neat
<penguin42> hmm breakfast time
<dwatkins> I'm looking forward to a late breakfast this evening.
<Adriannom> hi.  just installed xubuntu 12.04 and after i suspend the screen is very dark, even at the prompt to log back in.  changing brightness has some effect, but even full brightness is very dark.  any ideas what could be going on?
<Adriannom> the mouse pointer is actually the only thing that is at full brightness
<mattt> afternoon all
<Darael> Having a problem on several machines since they were upgraded to Precise.  The settings for keyboard layouts are ignored, and the layout is permamently set to whatever the default for that account was before the upgrade, but behaves as though all the check-boxes under "options" were unset.
<Darael> This means I no longer have access to QWERTY keyboard layouts on my own user account, and my caps-lock is a caps-lock instead of a backspace, and no amount of fiddling with the settings has fixed it.  What can I do?
<DJones> Evening
 * popey tickles BigRedS 
<popey> then changes his mind and tickles bigcalm instead
 * DJones pinches popey's feather
<KevanV> DJones: duck?
<DJones> ostrich
<KevanV> I suppose they have a better reach
<ali1234> popey: yesterday i found out compiz 0.9 is a from-scratch rewrite
<popey> news to me
<ali1234> it's not even written in the same language
<ali1234> 0.8 is C, 0.9 is C++
<ali1234> i thought it might be :)
<ali1234> hence why i mention it
<popey> âº
<ali1234> it's slightly annoying that you can't install them both side by side because they have the same name
<MartijnVdS> is it better though
<ali1234> is what better?
<MartijnVdS> 0.9
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's much much worse
<ali1234> it basically only works with unity
<ali1234> and even that doesn't really work properly
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/138736/which-packages-provide-the-pictured-gnome-panel-applets
<ali1234> i know someone out there knows the answer to this
<popey> i know bits of it
<popey> not all
<popey> the stuff in the top right is mostly "indicator-*" packages
<ali1234> the "stuff" in the top right is all one applet
<ali1234> i think it is indicator-applet-complete
<popey> hmm, doesn't look like it to me
<popey> hey ho
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<popey> well, one is the session menu, thats indicator-session
<ali1234> no no no
<ali1234> there's multiple versions
<ali1234> there's slpit up versions and one with "everything"
<ali1234> having everything as a single applet fixes the problem with stuff getting shuffled on the panel
<ali1234> all the different versions come from indicator-applet source package anyway
<TheLinuxUser> hi
<ali1234> ooo, human theme is still n the repos
<ali1234> wow, human theme for windows + ambiance for gtk works really well
<czajkowski> evening
 * Laney wibbles
 * hamitron wonders why a window seems to move slightly down and to the right, when left clicking to make it active
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-13
<knightwise> morning everyone
<dwatkins> allo allo
<knightwise> Hey dwatkins !
 * dwatkins pours coffee into his brain
<dwatkins> First day back after a week off is always difficult.
<dwatkins> I trust all is well elsewhere.
<popey> Morning
<dwatkins> wotcher
<knightwise> I failed to record the last dr who episode
<knightwise> as a star trek fan I'm starting to wonder if that wasn't a good thing
<dwatkins> knightwise: it'll be repeated soon enough
<SuperMat1> it's on iplayer
<SuperMat1> and all the torrent sites
<dwatkins> I havn't used a video recorder in years thanks to all this iplayer related stuff :)
<popey> tsk tsk
<popey> torrents are bad mm'kay
<SuperMatt> unless of course you're downloading and sharing ubuntu isos?
<MooDoo_> moening all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo !
<mungbean> installed carmageddon on android tablet. ws expecting something a bit better from the reviews
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise how are you?
<JamesTait> Good morning, and happy frog jumping day, eveyone! :-D
<SuperMatt> ok, I need the source for that one
<directhex> when's weasel stomping day?
<SuperMatt> isn't every day weasel stomping day?
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k76IGLi6jWI
<Laney> stoat stomping, weasel wanging, vole vaulting
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, http://news.yahoo.com/may-13-frog-jumping-day-tulip-day-national-171100389.html is one place I saw it.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<SuperMatt> JamesTait: I would have prefered national apple pie day
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, as would many people, I suspect - hence me choosing something else. ;)
<brobostigon> why cant we have national beer day,?
<SuperMatt> curse you JamesTait!
<JamesTait> brobostigon, isn't every day national beer day?
<brobostigon> JamesTait: i suspect that can be done, :)
 * chalcedony smiles
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> mornig davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: how be ya me owld mucka
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'm fine thanks
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: how do chap
<bigcalm> davmor2: the usual, over worked. Though thankfully not under paid. 1st raise for several years
<bigcalm> davmor2: how's you?
<davmor2> bigcalm: recovering from the holiday, who knew cold and damp wasn't good for arthritis :D  How ever flat is warm and dry :)  It was still nice to get away and recharge the batteries :)
<bigcalm> Indeed. Hayley and I are looking forward to our long Edinburgh weekend at the beginning of June
<bigcalm> Though, at this time, I'm not sure what we'll do for the 4 days
<bigcalm> Maybe we'll go and harass some people in Glasgow, like mgdm
<mgdm> bigcalm: o hai :)
<mgdm> what weekend are you 'here'?
<bigcalm> mgdm: Saturday 1st to Tuesday 4th June
<mgdm> cool
<davmor2> bigcalm: fun :)  Ofcourse 2800 emails to go through on your first day back isn't the best fun in the universe :(
<Laney> ctrl-a, delete
<bigcalm> :D
<brobostigon> oh yes, opensimulator working, :)
<knightwise> hey everyone
<brobostigon> afternoonings knightwise
 * brobostigon grins widely, :D
<directhex> brobostigon, the Second Life server?
<brobostigon> directhex: yes.
<brobostigon> directhex: althought why on earth it is in mono, i have no idea.
 * redtape|renegade ' gives AlanBell ,  a loco-note to depatch DVD's this fortnight. |OTopix|
<popey> brobostigon: why not?
<brobostigon> popey: i wa just expecting something like c++ really, expectations.
<directhex> brobostigon, well, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn8Sd013sM8 might be indicative. On the left is the old Second Life scripting system, LSL. on the right is the same script compiled using mono, which is now standard in second life.
<brobostigon> directhex: interesting,
<brobostigon> bbl, meds to pickup from chemist, hope i stay dry.
<directhex> using something like Mono for this type of game engine is reasonably logical. The Sims 3 is a good example of it
<directhex> especially if you compare performance of TS3 and TS2
<brobostigon> i shall have to do more tests.
<brobostigon> ok, bbl.
<redtape|renegade> brobostigon: I'd take that wind-proof jacket, then: just saying.
 * redtape|renegade scores a blinder off Aucktion :: http://r.ebay.com/9eR5Jt :: (came up in a 'Saved search' @ Dr Who time, yesterday)
<redtape|renegade> T | wonder if it  gets delivered before fourteen - o -four (?)
<redtape|renegade> **OT | ...
<redtape|renegade> !packages
<lubotu3> You can browse and search for Ubuntu packages using !Synaptic, !KPackageKit, !Adept, "apt-cache search <keywords or regex>", or online at http://packages.ubuntu.com - Ubuntu has about 30000 packages available, so please *search* for an official package before installing things in awkward ways!
<bashrc> For anyone who is a Bitmessage fan the Unity integration is now mostly done
<bashrc> All I need do now is make a PPA
<bashrc> Have created my very first PPA
<redtape|renegade> bashrc: Well done .. what's the launchpad entry ?
<ali1234> bashrc: can i try it?
<bashrc> ppa:fuzzgun/pybitmessage
<bashrc> only currently for raring
<bashrc> A relatively minor inconsistency: on the application indicator there is "quit" but within the application file menu there is "exit"
 * brobostigon shakes his fist at FB ads. :(
<redtape|renegade> ali123: I must have pinged out .. what was the launchpad PPA address again ?
<redtape|renegade> bashrc:          ^^ ?
<bashrc> ppa:fuzzgun/pybitmessage
<redtape|renegade> bashrc: I have downloaded it .. I will later transfer to my other screen and try it out. thank-you.
<bashrc> no problemo
<SuperMatt> I wonder if the summit.ubuntu.com site can be updated so I can quickly download a calendar entry for certain events
<redtape|renegade> SuperMatt: I believe the calendar function also exists in the terminal by just typing :: $ calendar .. | wonder, if Mellon University would open that up ? ::
<bashrc> I wonder where that term "red tape" came from originally
<redtape|renegade> HOPE 5
<mgdm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tape
 * redtape|renegade activates his unstimulii senses.
<MartijnVdS> o/
<bashrc> goes back to Henry VIII and his marriage troubles
<brobostigon> hail, eeeek
<redtape|renegade> bashrc, It's very odd that you are looking at the Tudors .. a very odd reign.
<dogmatic69> how can I uninstall / remove elasticsearch. I installed with https://gist.github.com/wingdspur/2026107
<redtape|renegade> bashrc, Dunno :: whenever I loose track I just click here ---> http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/megan-fox :: get back to eurobooks. -it's just a bookmark afterall.
<mgdm> dogmatic69: which bit of that script did you use? The .deb or the second bit?
<dogmatic69> mgdm: the deb iirc
<dogmatic69> was a while back
<mgdm> well, just remove the .deb - sudo apt-get remove elasticsearch
<mgdm> (I think it's remove, at least)
<dogmatic69> normally I use apt-get remove, ye.
<dogmatic69> maybe I did not use the deb then...
<mgdm> in that case you probably want to just remove /usr/local/share/elasticsearch
<mgdm> (which, by the way, is a really strange place to put it)
<dogmatic69> ok, its fine to just rm -r it?
<dogmatic69> it being that folder.
<mgdm> make sure it's stopped first, but yeah (subject to the usual disclaimer; if you break it you get to keep all the bits ;-)
<dogmatic69> :(
<dogmatic69> its only my dev box for doing work / making a living on...
<mgdm> well, tar it up and keep it somewhere if you're concerned
<mgdm> or rename it and see if anything breaks
<dogmatic69> lol, no space for that :D
<dogmatic69> hence trying to clean up
<dogmatic69> I will just live on the edge a bit, most things are only a git clone (php dev etc)
<mgdm> yeah
<mgdm> I have a Vagrant box that I do all my dev stuff on
<dogmatic69> its an old(ish) HP blade
<mgdm> or rather, I have about 4 similar ones, and just turn them off and on as required
<redtape|chrome> OT | You mentioned the vagrant box .. Has anyone tried these (top-right) .. >  :http://www.villagetronic.com/e_products.html ::
<redtape|chrome> OT |   ^^     ?
<mgdm> that's not even mildly related to Vagrant :-)
<redtape|chrome> mgdm, Oh sorry I'll lmgtfy it.
<mgdm> http://www.vagrantup.com/ is what I'm talking about
<dogmatic69> redtape|chrome: a link to VMware would have been closer
<redtape|chrome> dogmatic69: Yep .. I'm looking at http://docs-v1.vagrantup.com/v1/docs/getting-started/ports.html :: but free to let me know if my product will work with 13.04 :/
<redtape|chrome> diplo: How's life in forty shades of green counrty ?
<cocoa117> how to use dd to write zero to sector 2-2048?
<cocoa117> sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=512 seek=2-2048
<cocoa117> does this work?
<shauno> I think it'd just going to be seek=2 and count=2046.  seek tells you where to start, count tells you how far to keep going
<cocoa117> shauno, ha, got it
<dogmatic69> is there any way to kill a ssh tunnel
<dogmatic69> ah, its just a process so kill worked.
<knightwise> hey everyone
<bashrc`> hi
<Azelphur> Anyone got any good suggestions for cheap curtains? I got 8 Windows all with no curtains, so stuff it's looking rather expensive :(
<mgdm> You've got Windows 8 with no curtains...?
 * mgdm flees
<popey> Azelphur: for cheap curtains see "blinds"
<directhex> blinds aren't really cheap either
<Azelphur> popey: haha, yea been looking for that too, it's a bit difficult because of the size required though, need ~2m drop, 1m wide
<directhex> the cheapest curtains are the pre-sized ones that come shrink-wrapper. if find some that fit your windows. anything else means custom curtains means Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£
<popey> +1
<Myrtti> Azelphur: "ikea"
<popey> depends on the blinds
<directhex> yes, ikea is worth considering. dirt cheap compared to non-ikea
<Myrtti> ikea and mum's sewing machine
<directhex> it may still be cheaper to buy premade curtains & have them adjusted at a dry cleaners than to have custom curtains done
<directhex> e.g. for the boy's bedroom we had pre-made tab top curtains converted to track top
<Azelphur> didn't think of ikea, will check them
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/4700741202/in/set-72157604075155031
<Myrtti> ^ ikea
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/4700742416/
<Azelphur> sounds like a plan
<popey> directhex: https://plus.google.com/u/0/102823828455295039123/posts/1gHAhqP2icf
<shauno> mum's sewing machine ftw.  curtains aren't difficult.  curtain tape is <50p/metre, and the rest magically falls into place
<directhex> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/522990_10150789180530709_115359205_n.jpg
<popey> awwww
<Myrtti> most ikea curtains have so much excess that if you have a sewing machine available the excess can be used as curtain tie-backs
<Myrtti> especially with the ridiculously low ceiling height of UK apartments
<directhex> popey, confused, why can't i reply to that post?
<directhex> oh. gotta join "ubuntu community". grr
<directhex> noise
<popey> its a community
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> software centre says no skype and no steam on raring?
<directhex> just get steam from steampowered.com
<directhex> and skype from skype.com is fine on raring too
<mungbean> how do i disable the bongos at the lightdm screen?
<popey> directhex: how can I find out why (for example) on debian sid, libc6:i386 trails behind libc6:amd64? there should be build logs or something?
<diplo_> evening all
<directhex> popey, there are build logs for debian, at buildd.debian.org
<directhex> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=eglibc
<directhex> so, there won't be a build log for architectures where the package was compiled by the maintainer and uploaded. debian requires binary uploads, not source-only uploads (sigh)
<directhex> there's a delay from a package being in "installed" state and being in your local mirror, too
<Azelphur> Can anyone with a VPN and an android phone do me a favour and tell me if when wifi tethering is enabled, does the phone route all data through your VPN?
<Azelphur> or if anyone has a VPN I can test with that'd be handy
<popey> thanks directhex
<mungbean> grim peogramme about chavs
<diplo> yeah i gave that a miss mungbean
<diplo> Skint ?
<mungbean> yeah hprrid
<mungbean> then camelot advertise scratchcards on the ad break
<diplo> heh
<popey> mungbean: i watched that hoarders app on ipad in bed last night.. nothing revolutionary, did find the presenter somewhat irritating
<mungbean> yeah was a bit meh
<mungbean> prefer the other one
<popey> other what?
<mungbean> hoarder mext door
<mungbean> bbc one is lame
<mungbean> u said hoarders APP lol
<mungbean> why does the sprite ad censor the dogs willy?
<shauno> the dog requested thus.
<popey> hah so i did
<popey> hmm.
<popey> i want more programmes like "The Secret Life Of the Motorway"
<Laney> there's something about feynman on the iplayer atm
<Laney> started watching it earlier
<mungbean> and the smiths yesterday
<Laney> he's a good lad
<Myrtti> yeah, it's a great show
<Myrtti> too bad it's nothing as good as his books
<mungbean> i read his book , was a bit bored
<mungbean> sometime in the 90s, quantum physics and rainbows in oily puddles
<mungbean> the presenter from the less good hoarders prog is from escape to the country that my missis watches everyday
<bigcalm> Oh dear :(
<Myrtti> hm?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: oh sorry. My reaction was to the wallops message of the ongoing ddos
<Myrtti> yeah, well, atleast the good thing is that the bigger half has services
<bigcalm> Some people have very tiny willies, me thinks
<zleap> got it
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-14
<rml_home_> numpty question:  If I have 50 files names *_OLD_* and want them to end up as *_NEW_* is there a bash one-liner to rename them?
<dwatkins> rml_home_: assuming there are no duplicate names you might overwrite, try: for i in *_OLD_* ; mv â$iâ â${i/_OLD_/_NEW_}â ; done
<rml_home_> dwatkins: thanks!  I shall give it a twirl
<rml_home_> sorry for delayed response, was on the school run :)
<directhex> that would work fine, assuming no filenames have a space in
<rml_home_> yay!  all sorted!  Thanks
<dwatkins> excellent, rml_home_ :)
<MooDoo> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Isn't the world a funny place sometimes? http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130513135507864
<dwatkins> indeed, TheOpenSourcerer - I would have expected that sort of thing in theUS, not Germany
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> Morning
<dwatkins> morning!
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Dance Like A Chicken Day! :-D http://youtu.be/9aKd_vQTwpw
 * DJones does the funky chicken
 * dwatkins swings a chicken in the air
<DJones> Beat me too that one
 * dwatkins hands DJones a deckchair
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<DJones> I know this is Microsoft releated, but can anybody recommend a standalone twitter app, I don't like viewing in a web browser, I just want something I can have a small window on the desktop that does realtime updates, Ideally something like the Friends app or Polly etc
<directhex> which browser do you use?
<DJones> Normally chrome
<mungbean> hotot
<directhex> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cnfkkfleeiooolklkgkmigodkmcopnji
<DJones> Ah, Destroytwitter is the one I used to use
<MooDoo> DJones: try echofon
<MooDoo> actually ignore that
<dwatkins> DJones: I used to use bitlbee and irssi, perhaps not the best graphical client, but it was amusing to watch
<dwatkins> if you had a Mac, I'd reccomend Itsy.
<mgdm> I couldn't imagine using anything other that irssi for IRC, but I couldn't ever use it for IM or Twitter
<dwatkins> I setup bitlbee at home just for fun, it was amusing, but I prefer a GUI for IM myself too, so I can click links and send and receive files easily.
<mungbean> i use adnroid for twitter
<mungbean> check it every 2 or 3 days
<dwatkins> there's a waterfall twitter site that shows constant updates if you really want to see what everyone's saying
<dwatkins> http://twitterfall.com/
<dwatkins> I guess you could run that in another browser, e.g. Chromium
<DJones> I'm going with destroytwitter, used to use mahtweets but that became abandonware
<DJones> Thanks for the suggestions though
<BigRedS> rml_home_: Bit late, but you might want ot look at the 'rename' command
<rml_home_> thanks BigRedS.  I actually used some piping to sed in the end.  All done now though.  I was just too sleepy first thing to think straight
<andylock1an> howdy folks
<andylock1an> many, been a while since I've beeen here :(
<dwatkins> Cmdr Hadfield has returned to earth http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=163032701
<andylock1an> howdy
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<BigRedS> rml_home_: yeah, rename is a much-underrated/underused command IMO
<dwatkins> allo andylock1an, how do?
<andylock1an> oops
<andylock1an> I was scrolled up
<andylockran> not bad - looking for employment in London.
<popey> doing wot?
<andylockran> popey: Project Management
<andylockran> experience with PCI DSS, ISO 2700x & agency development work
<popey> http://blog.songkick.com/jobs/
<popey> "Even if you donât fit into one of the roles above, get in touch with us anyway if you love live music and get obsessed with solving interesting problems. Weâre always looking for good people."
<andylockran> Thanks popey!
<popey> friend of mine works there
<andylockran> thanks for the headsup.
<popey> np
<popey> just checked with him, they have no project manager positions, product manager is closest â»
<andylockran> yeah; it looks closest but would require 3 years product management experience - I'l send the CV over so at least they have it on file.
<andylockran> done
<davmor2> google image atari breakout that will kill your free time off for now :)
<czajkowski> addictive
<popey> or "addicting" as those loony yanks say
<mungbean> "know that feel"
<mink> Hi. Anyone know how enable functionality on gnome desktop (ubuntu), in workspaces, when I scroll on thumbnails of workspaces then should switch to next/prev workspace.
<mink> It's working for me before, but yesterday I reinstall ubuntu and I can't switch workspaces on that way
<BigRedS> Do you know if your version of Gnome has changed? They've been removing that sort of functionality recently, you might've inadvertently upgraded? Did you reinstall to the same verion of Ubuntu?
<BigRedS> I've not got a Gnome-shell handy with which to check whether I can do that
<ali1234> has anyone actually used gnome-terminal 3.9?
<ali1234> i can't get it to run here as they have added loads of dependencies
<ali1234> instead of a single stand alone application it is now a client/server system that requires dbus to run
<ali1234> instead of gnome-terminal you now get gnome-terminal-client, gnome-terminal-server, and gnome-terminal-migration
<directhex> :D
<directhex> amazing
<mgdm> double yew tee eff
<mgdm> are they reinventing tmux or something?
<ali1234> no, the end result is actually has less configuration options than it did before
<ali1234> this is supposed to make the code easier to maintain
<ali1234> it also has a plugin for nautilus
<ali1234> so instead of patching nautilus to open the user's prefered terminal
<ali1234> instead the patched gnome-terminal to add a nautilus extension that opens gnome-terminal and only gnome-terminal
<popey> delightful
<popey> is this the new world order of cloud apps?
<ali1234> no this is "opinionated software" - i believe you work for one of the pioneers of that?
<directhex> my opinion is "bees :("
<ali1234> here's a good change
<ali1234> they changed the default colour scheme from black text on brown to green text on black
<ali1234> white text would have been better but never mind
<popey> i was more asking why the client/server split
<ali1234> because opinions are good and users are idiots1!!
<ali1234> actually i don't know because i can't run the thing
<ali1234> which is why i asked if anyone has used it
<popey> what does it run on? Fedora 19?
<ali1234> i don't know
<ali1234> i just tried to build the git
<ali1234> probably fedora is a good bet
<Azelphur> well that was fun, I just filed a police report against a bank o.O
<Azelphur> for theft lol
<Azelphur> that got them moving ;)
<christel> i say!
<Azelphur> the bank manager was so close to getting arrested
<mgdm> why?
<Azelphur> someone bought some BTC from me and is either trying chargeback fraud or using a stolen account, so Santander decided the clever thing to do was to freeze my entire account for two weeks
<Azelphur> lots of lies about when it'll be resolved, lies from the branch manager, etc, with me complying all the way through, told them that this 48 hours they promised it would be resolved in would be the last time, and of course this morning it's still not resolved like they promised...
<Azelphur> so, police report for theft as they told me the funds would be available 2 weeks ago and they still arn't
<Azelphur> I ended up with the entire police department in the reception listening in as one of the detectives phoned the bank and told them off, was epic.
<Azelphur> they managed to make a sane agreement now that they were on the verge of being arrested :P
<brobostigon> lol
<brunogirin> Azelphur: brilliant! I'm sure the plods enjoyed doing that too :-)
<Azelphur> I told them I was going to the police station and they thought I was kidding, I got a callback 3 minutes later while I was in the car.
<Azelphur> and they are like where are you...in a car on the way to the police station
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> you sure do like causing trouble...
<Azelphur> ali1234: what can I say, I'm a troublemaker.
<Azelphur> although if they didn't try to steal 14k off me I wouldn't be causing any trouble.
<Azelphur> I cause trouble to people who cause me trouble ;)
<ali1234> why can't yo air gap it?
<Azelphur> air gap?
<ali1234> make a company account
<ali1234> then make another company account at another bank under a different company
<Azelphur> I already have a business account now
<ali1234> when someone sends you money by bank transfer immediately withdraw it in cash, take it to second bank
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I've been tempted to do that, especially for large transactions.
<ali1234> they now cannot ever freeze more than 1 transaction
<Azelphur> indeed
<czajkowski> Azelphur: it's never ever simple with you
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> what can I say I lead an eventful life
 * mgdm makes a note to avoid business with Azelphur 
<mgdm> just in case, you know :)
<Azelphur> It was pretty simple really, the bank asked for evidence, I gave them everything they wanted, they refused to even look at the evidence they asked for and were just generally useless for 2 weeks solid
<Azelphur> I gave them every chance to put it right
<czajkowski> Azelphur: I swear you bring it on yourself tbh
<Azelphur> czajkowski: well, if you class bitcoin trading as bringing it on myself, perhaps so yes.
<czajkowski> oh then yes I do :)
<czajkowski> hows the landlord situation ?
<Azelphur> but then, if nobody tried anything new, the world would be a pretty sad place.
<Azelphur> czajkowski: oh great, I moved.
<Azelphur> new landlord is awesome.
<Azelphur> new apartment is awesome too.
<directhex> old landlord was hanged
<directhex> for crimes against Azelphur
 * czajkowski starts taking bets on when there will be issues with Azelphur new place
<czajkowski> do I have 3 months anyone
<Azelphur> directhex: working on that, once I got the bank stuff sorted out I plan to take him to small claims and show him what for too :)
<Azelphur> czajkowski: haha, it's not like I made a dispute for myself there...
<directhex> czajkowski, 78 days
<Azelphur> czajkowski: I found at least 5 other people all of whom had major repair issues under that landlord, I had no oven for 5 months (since I moved in) that's hardly my fault :P
<Azelphur> apart from perhaps poor apartment selection.
<diddledan> I blame the white mice
 * czajkowski takes 78 days fom Azelphur 
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> blame poor Azelphur for all the problems :<
<diddledan> oh well if you insist.. it's Azelphur 's fault
<ali1234> czajkowski does not like it when people stand up for themselves. why am i not surprised?
<czajkowski> do I have 92 days
<czajkowski> anyone
<czajkowski> any takers
<Azelphur> hehe
 * czajkowski takes 110 days 
<Azelphur> xD
<mgdm> czajkowski: I'll tkae 92
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I think the thing with me is that I let people take advantage of me most of my life, and one day I just kinda snapped and said right, no more of this.
<Azelphur> and now I take stuff as far as it needs to go to ensure nobody takes advantage of me.
<czajkowski> mgdm: taken
<ali1234> there are too many douchebags with zero personal resposibility in this world
<ali1234> Azelphur: you are doing good work
<Azelphur> ali1234: my thoughts exactly, thanks :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: I gave the old neighbours my phone number too, I fully plan to keep helping them any way I can with the old Landlord battle, so I'm not out of that one :)
<bashrc> There are many cowboys in the landlord business
<diddledan> ok, someone explain what's the supposedly super special feature of Apple's "EarPods"? I mean apart from the fact they look uncomfortable
<ali1234> link?
<diddledan> erm
<Azelphur> bashrc: yea
<ali1234> they are just regular earphone
<diddledan> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD827LL/A/apple-earpods-with-remote-and-mic
<shauno> diddledan, as far as I gather, they're like java.  fits as many users as possible by being equally uncomfortable for everyone
<ali1234> the remote probably has some extra proprietary buttons
<ali1234> the method for doing that is patented by sony btw
<ali1234> 1 wire with different resistances through each button and an adc
<diddledan> go Sony
<diddledan> I always liked Sony stuff
<diddledan> stems from Dad furnishing our home with staff sales when I was a nipper
<ali1234> they used to be good
<ali1234> minidisc was good at the time
<diddledan> the two biggest customers in the uk of sony stuff is 1) dixons group, 2) staff sales
 * popey mourned the death of his Sony Trinitron FD-1
<diddledan> I never really got the point of minidisk
<diddledan> c*
<ali1234> diddledan: it's basically a read/write CD player
<diddledan> I guess because it didn't reach critical mass
<ali1234> with magneto-optical disks
<ali1234> it was just about to do that when mp3s and cheap flash showed up
<ali1234> not really minidisc's fault
<diddledan> is that a combined xman between magneto and cyclops? imagine the destruction!!
<popey> my first mp3 player was a Diamond RIO
<ali1234> i have one of those i think
<ali1234> the very first one with like a 8 mb card
<diddledan> 8MB, as in 2xMP3?
<diddledan> :-p
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it doesn't even have a display
<mgdm> popey: I still have my Rio
<popey> me too
<popey> yeah, mine has a display
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diamond_Rio_PMP300.jpg
<ali1234> oh it's not one of those
<ali1234> i don't know what i have
<mgdm> I had to solder one of the battery connectors, but it still works, though I have nothing with a parallel port to put music on any more
<popey> yeah, whacky connector that piggy-backs on parallel port
<popey> pre-usb and pre-firewire
<mgdm> one of my printers didn't get on with that
<popey> ditto
<popey> i should take a photo of mine, it looks way better than that pic
<directhex> which was first, the rio pmp300 or the mpman?
<mgdm> I *think* the mpman
<directhex> looks like mpman
<directhex> The MPMan was not well received by critics and consumers.[citation needed] The Rio PMP300, which was released soon afterward, was received better.[citation needed]
<popey> mpman according to wikipedia
<popey> ah there
<popey> ooh, better picture
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rio_pmp300.jpg
<shauno> The RIAA's Associate Director of Anti-Copyright infringement initially said the MPMan had "no function other than playing material that was stolen from record companies". He later said it was "a unique device. It's something that we haven't seen on the market before"
<shauno> sad to think that in 15 years, they haven't moved too far
<BigRedS> we've moved hugely IMO
<BigRedS> both Spotify and iTunesalikes are available, and they are the record industry actually using teh Interent
<BigRedS> and the Internet, too
<ali1234> i can't find it
<ali1234> i remember it had a yellow front and no built in storage
<shauno> I'm still very disappointed there's no second-hand market at all
<BigRedS> no, it's not as good as it could be, but that's not to say it isn't better
<BigRedS> I've stopped my dubious downloading because Spotify is easier
<BigRedS> so it works, too. (at least in one case)
<mgdm> They removed all of an artist I like from Spotify the other day, which is irritating, as I have the albums in question but they are a) on CD b) I have no CD drive in my day to day computer c) The CDs are 200 miles away in a box
<davmor2> mgdm: sign up to a different service
<shauno> completely OT, but any suggestions for an android equivalent of the ipod touch?  (eg, a very small tablet, phone form-factor without being a phone)
<ali1234> ah found it http://content.hwigroup.net/images/old/reviews/000139-00.jpg
<ali1234> it was like that but yellow
<mgdm> davmor2: but I like the one I have, except for the lack of Four Tet :)
<ali1234> seems to be from about 2002
<Azelphur> I think talktalk might have goofed my fibre a bit too, before I moved they said I could get fibre, but now they say I can't, I asked BT if I can get fibre and they say I can xD
<mgdm> call the police? :D
 * mgdm flees
<Azelphur> haha, nah it's probably just someone making a mistake somewhere :P
<mgdm> A mistake in TalkTalk? Surely not
<Azelphur> exactly. :P
<ali1234> interesting
<ali1234> so gnome-terminal sort of still supports transparency
<ali1234> it looks to me like if you manually set the gsetting key for background colour, it accepts an alpha value
<ali1234> i can't run it to test though
<mgdm> I'd not mind so much if they got rid of features if they had a reasonable argument
<mgdm> 'RESOLVED WONTFIX' with a comment of "No." is not a reasonable argument
<diplo> Hi guys, trying to tail a file ( access log ) and want to grep for 2 ip's connecting to a specific area
<diplo> Thought you could do something like tail -f logfile | grep name | egrep -v "ipaddr" | egrep -v "ipaddr"
<diplo> Works with one, is there a way to filter for two easily ?
<diplo> Failing at google foo at the mo
<mgdm> remove the -vs?
<mgdm> it seems you have them backwards - -v means "does not match"
<brunogirin> tail -f logfile | grep name | grep -e ip1 -e ip2
<diplo> Doesn't return anything then, if i remove one of the ips and do grep name| grep ip it works fine, if i add another grep returns nothing
<diplo> ah, will try that ta
<diplo> new one
<diplo> :)
<brunogirin> -e allows you to specify multiple patterns
<brunogirin> I think
<mgdm> in sed it does
<mgdm> not sure about grep
<brunogirin> mgdm you'd expect them to be consistent :-) maybe...
<mgdm> in a logical world... :)
<popey> Fools.
<diplo> well it's returning the second one, going to double check the first ip is actually in the file :D
<mgdm> however, you are correct, I just looked ;)
<brunogirin> diplo: yes that would help, however if it's returning the 2nd one it's a good sign
<diplo> OK great, thanks very much.. would have got there eventually but you speeded it up no end. ta fanx!
<brunogirin> popey: I'm sure normality will be restored shortly
<brunogirin> diplo no prob
<popey> â»
<ali1234> the worst part is that the people who want the softwar to stay the same end up having to fork under a new name, while the people who are making massively intrusive changes get to keep working on the original project
<ali1234> if gnome-shell was done as a fork it would have less users than mint right now
<ali1234> sorry, mate
<popey> no idea how many users mate / gs / cinnamon have really
<popey> hard to tell
<ali1234> none basically
<ali1234> except for gnome shell which has all fedora users
<ali1234> but that is only because of this reason
<popey> how many users does fedora have?
<popey> it's tens of millions?
<dwatkins> depends on your definition of users, popey.
<popey> people who by any normal usage of the term "users" are users.
<popey> i.e. people who use it
<ali1234> people who use it as a desktop OS
<ali1234> if you want to know how many users gs has
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> i doubt it's tens of millions
<diddledan> 3 and susan on the weekends
<diplo> Didn't work  :) thought it had :/
<ali1234> maybe 1 million
<popey> i thought fedora had way more than that
<ali1234> i doubt ubuntu has more than about 5 million
<popey> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics
<popey> its way more than 5 million
<ali1234> and i doubt fedora has mor than 10% what ubuntu has
<popey> probably nearer 10 times that
<popey> allegedly
<ali1234> and i am talking about people who actually use it as a desktop, not number of installs
<diddledan> I wonder what the figures are for day-to-day users of Linux systems on the desktop/laptop actually are
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> total unique IPs: 1,186,869
<ali1234> now divide that by 10 because of dynamic IPs
<popey> that seems surprisingly low
<ali1234> that's probably in the ballpark
<ali1234> not surprising to me
<diddledan> divide by ten? that's a rather round fudgefactor
<popey> 9.5
<ali1234> SIG FIGS!
<popey> wut
<ali1234> let's say divide by 7 based on 24 hour lease time
<popey> my ip hasn't changed for months
<ali1234> dyndns pool is usually at least 254 addresses
<popey> neither have most people on VM
<ali1234> then subtract all the servers...
<popey> but i dont run fedora â»
<diddledan> dsl and cable users will likely have pseudo-static IPs because they keep a router constantly connected
<davmor2> popey: mine hasn't changed for a while I know this cause dyndns were complaining that I hadn't made contact for a month :)
<ali1234> also, let's not count anyone who didn't install it by choice ie corporate users
<diddledan> how many corporate desktops do you think will be forced to run fedora?!
<ali1234> according to that page, more than the number of people who got counted twice because of dynamic IPs
<diddledan> I think "that page" is pulling things out of it's arse
<ali1234> so at least half a million imo
<ali1234> yeah me too
<ali1234> i don't run fedora but i have installed it in a VM more than once to do one thing that won't work anywhere else
<diddledan> OT - I wish I could drive, left my phone(s) at work and now I feel disconnected
<ali1234> i'm about to do it again now to test this gnome-terminal nonsense
<diddledan> lxc is quite fun for running alien systems with little-to-no overhead
<ali1234> but it's not managable
<diddledan> I've got Gentoo installed in an LXC container. It doesn't know any different than a bare-metal install
<ali1234> virtualbox makes 2 files which you can delete at all
<BigRedS> surely it's puzzled by having whatever kernel it's running on?
<ali1234> LXC uses a bunch of scripts that need root and do god knows what
<BigRedS> or, at least, it knows it's not a gentoo one
<ali1234> gentoo doesn't care what kernel you run for obvious reasons :)
<ali1234> however, fedora probably does
<BigRedS> yeah, but I guess it's aware of that. I just meant to hint at lxc not being full-on virt
<diddledan> you're right, lxc is more akin to chroot than it is to virtualisation
<diddledan> lxc does allow independant network stacks tho, which is useful
<ali1234> is the guy who does those BBC logos in here?
<popey> no
<popey> well, don't think so
<ali1234> they are good but globe needs more polygons
<popey> Dave Jeffery
<ali1234> hmm shall i mess with gnome-terminal or get on with making my game?
<ali1234> i think the answer is clear
<ali1234> i should stop procrastinating
<ali1234> i need to figure out how to do ogre stencil buffer effects so i can make the track self-intersect
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/257651
<ali1234> this is the one thing i can't do yet
<popey> ali1234: do you know of any open source 3d gaming engines (like ogra) which would be candidates for porting to Ubuntu (if they're in the repo already,bonus points)?
<ali1234> popey: i don't see what you mean
<ali1234> if they are already in the repo why would you port them?
<popey> well, no x
<ali1234> they all use opengl directly
<popey> ah ok
<popey> are there any that have a good list of games already developed?
<ali1234> but you;d want to look at ogre, crystalspace, saubraten, q3a
<popey> i.e. would be candidates
<ali1234> no
<popey> (for porting and bringing games with them)
<ali1234> the only one that has "good" games is ogre, and they are all commercial
<popey> commercial is fine
<ali1234> btw
<ali1234> my game will be mostly static compiled
<ali1234> well, it may ship with dynamic libs actually
<ali1234> but those libs will be linked against libX11
<ali1234> i'm not supporting two different graphics stacks on linux
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5665555/
<ali1234> this is how torchlight does it
<ali1234> (that uses ogre)
<ali1234> i just copied what they did
<directhex> there aren't really many open source 3d engines in use by real games anyone cares about
<mungbean> privilege escalation in rh/centos/SL https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=42827&forum=59
<diddledan> unity supports a linux target now (unity3d.com)
<diddledan> it's just a shame the ide doesn't work on linux, too
<brunogirin> diddledan: one step at a time I suspect :-)
<zleap> AlanBell, just wondered if you could advise if the conference pack is still available please ?
<zleap> DanS_, good timing that
<DanS_> zleap: I try
<zleap> :D
<DanS_> Early bird catches the worm
<ali1234> directhex: to be fair their aren't that many closed source onces that anyone cares about either
<zleap> yup
<directhex> ali1234, yeah, it seems nowadays there's a lot of per-publisher engines, and not so much the major "independent" middleware. except unrealengine
<ali1234> well, there's unity
<ali1234> and source
<ali1234> but yeah this is exactly what i mean
<brobostigon> reckon it is possible, to convert real life person measurements, and impose them into a opensim avatar ?
<ali1234> ogre is the only one that is open source and used in commercial games if you don't count ID engines, afaik
<brobostigon> onto*
<ali1234> also ogre isn't even a game engine, it only does graphics
<mungbean> whos gonna be busy tomorrow updating kernels?
<mungbean> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2013/CVE-2013-2094.html
<mungbean> wheezy bulnerable too
<ali1234> got a tl;dr?
<ali1234> how would this be exploited?
<mungbean>  https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=42827&forum=59
<mungbean> has a prog to vompile
<ali1234> url is mangled tho
<ali1234> but i found it on google
<mungbean> f---
<ali1234> " * jewgold to 115T6jzGrVMgQ2Nt1Wnua7Ch1EuL9WXT2g if you insist."
<ali1234> HMMMMMMM
<mungbean> oh those kids
<ali1234> http://blockchain.info/address/115T6jzGrVMgQ2Nt1Wnua7Ch1EuL9WXT2g
<ali1234> likely this was destined for an upcoming altcoin
<mungbean> whats thart
<ali1234> you don't wantto know
<mungbean> hack for stealing bc?
<diddledan> o_O
<ali1234> altcoin is a copy paste of bitcoin source code with a new block chain (ie start from zero)
<ali1234> there's about 20 of them
<ali1234> nobody has released one with exploits in the source code yet
<ali1234> but they will now
<mungbean> ok as a trojan?
<diddledan> I had a trojan once. it split
<diddledan> </troll>
<mungbean> bahdum chish
<mungbean> isnt beauty the eye of the beholder? why is bbc news telling me that a. jolie is one of the worlds most beautiful women?
<directhex> otherwise you wouldn't care about what she has to say about cancer
<mungbean> i think they mean "considered by some as"
<diddledan> have they checked all 7.2Billion people to come to that conclusion?
<directhex> ugly mcbutterface's opinions don't matter
<directhex> only the beautiful people matter
<mungbean> even if 7b people agree, its still subjective
<diddledan> I was thinking there might be more beautiful people that are undiscovered in those 7.2b
<mungbean> aaron ramsey scored tonight...could be bad
<mungbean> every time he scores, a dictator or celebrity dies
<diddledan> surely dictators dieing is a good thing, no?
<mungbean> xor
<mungbean> https://twitter.com/OfficialSamaras/status/315560215716175874/photo/1
<diddledan> freaky
<KrimZon> are they the only times he scored?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> and 2nite
<mungbean> why are ms advertising their os with multi platform angry birds?
<AlanBell> hmm, because they are scared of Ubuntu phone - the only bird-free platform?
<directhex> heh
<directhex> you know the crazy smarphone sales figures these days?
<directhex> angry birds is a day-1 install for 50% of them
<directhex> a platform with no angry birds is a write-off
<AlanBell> I removed it from my phone (and all other games)
<mungbean> my son likes it but hes 3
<mungbean> he also likes ninja warrior instead of postman pat
<AlanBell> I would actually be fine with Ubuntu phone if it makes calls, does ssh and web and gps for maps and bluetooth for audio
<AlanBell> and has no apps
<directhex> AlanBell, you might be. and so might six, maybe 7 other consumers
<directhex> but that won't pay the bills
<mungbean> yep
<AlanBell> indeed, and I suspect that it won't meet my extensive list of requirements there
<mungbean> i imagine ubuntu phone as a niche like nokia 900
<AlanBell> niche is good
<AlanBell> however I have no idea what niche they are targetting
<mungbean> modders?
<mungbean> oeople who mught equa;;y install cm?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> they are targeting the same niche they are targeting with desktop
<ali1234> the self-defining niche of "people who like ubuntu"
<AlanBell> nah, that is their userbase, not their target
<ali1234> well, any time anyone says they don't like ubuntu the answer is "it's not meant for you"
<AlanBell> target is more along the lines of "people who really want an Apple product instead"
<ali1234> therefore ubuntu must be designed for people who like ubuntu
<AlanBell> I would love it to be more coding/tinkering friendly
<AlanBell> as a strategic direction, so including an IDE in the base image and focus on one toolkit like QML
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> lets have a desktop that actually renders windows instead of black rectangles first
<ali1234> i would probably use unity if it could manage that
<ali1234> the newest version in raring is much worse than all previous ones though
<mungbean> every linux user i show elementary to is amazed by the speed
<ali1234> it has all previous bugs from the past 18 months, plus a whole load of new ones
<AlanBell> works for me at the moment, I just want a more deterministic alt-tab switcher
<mungbean> turns out people like fast
<AlanBell> what is elementary?
<ali1234> yeah do you know why elementary is fast?
<ali1234> it's because it doesn't use compiz
<mungbean> AlanBell: a distro based off ubuntu that uses a different wm
<ali1234> can someone try to confirm this please? it's really irritating: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1174054
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1174054 in unity (Ubuntu) ""Always on top" breaks spread/expose" [Undecided,New]
<mungbean> and is v pretty and fast and nicely made
<ali1234> will take you about 10 seconds
<ali1234> AlanBell: it's just mutter and docky and a nice theme
<mungbean> almost , but much more
<ali1234> that doesn't really do the theme justice - it is very nice
<ali1234> but it is too mac like for me
<mungbean> things tend to work as i would intuitively expect without someone telling me
<mungbean> i converted old scool fwvm user
<ali1234> i have been using computers so long that i now intuitively expect every piece of software to not work at all
<ali1234> i am constantly unsurprised
<AlanBell> the system that worked the best was riscos on the archimedes where drag and drop from any application to any application just worked
<AlanBell> and it was just very consistent
<ali1234> that only works if the applications support it though
<ali1234> it's not magic
<ali1234> also amiga workbench was miles better than risc os. please
<AlanBell> I did love my Amiga
<ali1234> "every" app had an arexx port. which was like dbus ecxcept 20+ years ago
<ali1234> and better
<ali1234> and easier to use
<ali1234> AlanBell: thanks for testing that bug. i wonder how i could get it added to the unity tests?
<AlanBell> talk to balloons
<AlanBell> in #ubuntu-quality
<ali1234> so how do i format a usb flash drive the ubuntu way?
<dwatkins> ali1234: with dd?
<ali1234> that's not the ubuntu way
<ali1234> also it won't format it it will just wipe it
<dwatkins> oh, gparted i guess, then
<ali1234> oh. "disks"
<ali1234> cool
<ali1234> that was easy
<ali1234> "Error synchronizing after initial wipe: Timed out waiting for object (udisks-error-quark, 0)"
<ali1234> :/
<ali1234> i have a quark
<dwatkins> is it strange or charmed?
<ali1234> i think it's just broken
<dwatkins> oh dear
<dwatkins> ali1234: did that 'people with blue faces' thing get fixed in the end, by the way?
<ali1234> yes, but not by adobe
<dwatkins> someone told me it was an NVidia bug, I don't know the 'truth' though.
<ali1234> libvdpau put in a patch that detects libflashplayer and swaps the channels
<dwatkins> ah ok, fair enough
<ali1234> well, there is only one other video card that supports vdpau and it is super rare
<ali1234> i never found out if anyone could reproduce with it
<dwatkins> I did everything I could to get it escalated, sadly the response was no.
<ali1234> it's like a via chrome card or something
<ali1234> i hink google have fixed it in pepper flash
<ali1234> http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2012-September/002066.html
<dwatkins> The Linux community has an advantage over large corporations in these kinds of situations.
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> we can change the source to work around their bugs
<dwatkins> thanks, I'll pass that on and try not to do so in a manner that says "because you refused to, the community fixed it"
<ali1234> i'm not sure the current status
<ali1234> that post is quite old
<dwatkins> I have an AMD card in my desktop, so can't test it.
<ali1234> let me check if it is still in there......
<ali1234> yep, still there
<ali1234> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~aplattner/libvdpau/commit/?id=ca9e637c61e80145f0625a590c91429db67d0a40
<dwatkins> cool
<ali1234> could still be an nvidia bug, i don't know
<ali1234> i'm not convinced though
<dwatkins> fair enough, I wouldn't have a clue, but at least it's fixed/worked-around now.
<dwatkins> Unfortunately Linux desktops are just too small a market for me to get much traction with the "users want this to be fixed" line.
<dwatkins> I was pleasantly surprised that Steam started porting to Linux, hopefully that will snowball things to get more competition in the market in general.
<ali1234> flash is dead anyway
<ali1234> i can't really blame them for not fixing it
<dwatkins> yeah, everyone (including Adobe) is moving over to HTML5 now, I guess.
<dwatkins> I'm a little hesitant about the whole DRM issue, but that's another story.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-15
<ali1234> ~info dieharder
<ali1234> !info dieharder
<lubotu3`> dieharder (source: dieharder): Random-number generator test front-end. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.31.1-4 (quantal), package size 252 kB, installed size 857 kB
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> How do i focus pidgin window on Ubuntu 13.04 raring running unity whenever any buddy contact me?
<MooDoo> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> JamesTait: could you let us know what day it is already?
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> morning morning
<SuperMatt> so that Mir video looked pretty amazing, right?
<mungbean> ok the about:memory page on firefox is hanging my machine...not good
<SuperMatt> my prediction: slashdot new article uploaded, stating that the phone interface is running for now, but the desktop interface is still to come, then slashdotters will comment about how terrible it will be to have a windows 8 style interface without actually reading the article
<mungbean> most g+ers didn't read the bit about phablet
<mungbean> and complained about windows 8 instead
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> I'm just looking at that now
<popey> meh
<SuperMatt> it is remarkable how quickly people just to conclusions
<popey> people in "don't read or listen" non-shocker
<SuperMatt> heh
<dwatkins> which video am I missing?
<SuperMatt> the problem is that it just fuels the haters even more when they see misinformed comments
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy International Day of Families! :-D
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, just for you. ;)
<SuperMatt> thanks babe
 * JamesTait blushes
<SuperMatt> wait, I forget people in here are real life friends
<SuperMatt> I can't get away with this sort of stuff
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, what sort of stuff?
<SuperMatt> calling you babe
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, oh I wouldn't worry about it.  My wife is used to it.
<christel> morning cutesiecakes
<JamesTait> christel, good morning dahling!
 * JamesTait air-kisses christel
<christel> how art thou my pretty? :)
<mungbean> what's happening in here today ?!?!
<JamesTait> Very well, thank you my sweet.  In the right frame of mind for seriously kicking some arse.  And you?
 * popey hugs JamesTait 
 * JamesTait hugs popey back
<JamesTait> mungbean, do you feel the love in the room?
<christel> arse kicking is always good :D
<andylockran> anyone use vagrant with puppet server?
<christel> i am well! doing a spot of work before i have to head off to guildford for a growth scan to see how the small person is getting on :)
<mungbean> \o/
<JamesTait> Woohoo!
<christel> (however, i dont trust their computers...)
<JamesTait> Very wise.
<christel> it calculated david at 7lbs... two days later he was born
<christel> and weighed 9 1/2 lbs
 * popey flashes his nexus 4 to latest daily ubuntu touch
<christel> this time i have decided to add 5lbs to any weight estimate provided by them
<christel> just to be on the safe side
<popey> wait what..
<JamesTait> popey, I'm not *at all* jealous.
<SuperMatt> christel: that's what you get for trusting useless computers!
<popey> have you another bun in the oven christel ?
<SuperMatt> I don't know why people bother with them
<christel> popey: haha yes, a GIRL apparently
<popey> \o/ Girls are great!
<christel> i hope she is still a girl as i have purchased "all the dresses"
<christel> :)
<JamesTait> christel, we were all girls at some point.
<popey> FACT!
<christel> due date august 11th (tho if she is like her brother she'll arrive a couple of weeks early i guess)
<christel> haha
<popey> My gorgeous girl â https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3zry8JH6pEw/UY_-W9MXjyI/AAAAAAAAYuk/icjm5iDit6c/w645-h860-no/779BA46F-CD51-4D42-A1C1-09E0E0EADB4B.JPG
<christel> my goodness, sophie is all grown up!
<JamesTait> I have no girls, but I have two ex-girls.
<christel> she is gorgeous indeed :)
<christel> and such a sweet child -- mind, both of yours are ADORABLE
<popey> Yes, yes they are!
<MooDoo> i have one girl and one boy
<bigcalm> I have a cat \o/
<popey> Other fabulous progeny â https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tQbZ7XSVXVk/UYfOoJG6n1I/AAAAAAAAYOk/ONBMsZws0bQ/w645-h860-no/34D9610B-4E43-451C-A7CC-B6B1E25B94A4.JPG
<christel> when i was pregnant with david i had a "OMG NO I CANT HAVE A BOY" moment when they told us the gender -- (it was really daft -- my thinking was "i have never been a boy, i have no idea how they work")
<Nafallo> I have an american.
<JamesTait> You're not wrong, christel, they're all grown up and very cute.
<Nafallo> what are you guys talking about? :-)
<christel> this time around i was all "oh i am sure it is another boy, i wouldnt have a clue what to do with girls..."
<christel> aww, i love sam, he is cuteee
<christel> david informed me that he wanted a baby sister mind so he is happy
<popey> awww
<christel> (apparently baby brothers are GROSS)
<popey> haha
<christel> (i have no clue how he would know, to my knowledge he has never had any!)
<popey> girls are great, especially for dads â»
<SuperMatt> don't girls come with a free shotgun?
<christel> haha yes, david is a serious mummy's boy so with some luck she will be more keen on gareth than he is
<christel> (he scares me -- he comes out with stuff like "LOOK MUMMY, COME SEE< I HAVE BURIED DADDY IN THE SANDPIT" or "When I grow up and I am a Ciderman (Cyberman) I will take people away and upgrade them... apart from daddy, I will put him in a box!")
<mungbean> i prefer boys atm
<christel> i have this fear that he will dispose of gareth at some point in his life, he seems to have an unhealthy obsession with getting rid of him!
<mungbean> but my girl has cried and pooed for the first 8 weeks of her life, so i haven't given her a chance yet
<mungbean> but the thought of boys seems more fun
<bigcalm> Daddy in a box
<christel> hehe
<christel> popey: how many years are there between sophie and sam btw?
<JamesTait> This is my youngest: http://ubuntuone.com/0zTsvDnW3aOPtQOQfhYBEx
<christel> aww he is super cute
<JamesTait> And he knows it.
<christel> hehe
<JamesTait> Blurry photo of big brother: http://ubuntuone.com/0qA7EJi86uDu3JDXyJ1STL
<christel> oh they are both rather cute arent they!
<popey> christel: 3
<popey> and 6 days
<christel> ooh how was the age gap? david will be 3 and a half when she shows up
<JamesTait> christel, they take after their mommy.
<christel> JamesTait: :D
<popey> perfect
<popey> they play with eachother in the mornings
<popey> sometimes there is disparity over things like what to play with or what to watch on telly, but not too bad
<popey> and less so now Sam is older
<JamesTait> popey, wait, your kids' birthdays are 3 years and 6 days apart?
<popey> yes
<JamesTait> Well that's uncanny.
<popey> yeah
<MooDoo> JamesTait: you don't know uncanny ;)
<popey> christmas conception
<JamesTait> Exactly the same as my two.
<popey> oh!
<popey> haha
<JamesTait> IIRC Sophie's birthday is the same as mine too!
<MooDoo> my son and daughter have the same birthday and so do my wife and i :)
<mungbean> spooky
<SuperMatt> weeeeird
<JamesTait> MooDoo, it's a conspiracy!
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem
<JamesTait> Better photo of big brother: http://ubuntuone.com/album/7hD0KeVYDzwPOQse2azLBm
<JamesTait> Oh, wait, no.
<JamesTait> D'oh, I broke it.
<Laney> cannot has previews
<Laney> sound the U1 alarm
<popey> U1 does photos?
<popey> (I should probably know this)
<JamesTait> http://ubuntuone.com/323nyoCnBdVwGFT3G3WYn8 there
<Laney> galleries, yeah
<JamesTait> popey, I'm sure you knew this, but it's probably lurking in your subconscious somewhere.
<popey> probably in long term storage, archived off to a microdrive somewhere
<mungbean> does popey still package tomboy?
<JamesTait> popey, eSATA brain dump?
<popey> popey does not
<Laney> doesn't really appear to work at the minute though
 * popey looks at Laney 
<Laney> slideshow dead
<Laney> thumbnails dead
<JamesTait> Laney, tell me more.
<christel> hehe
<mungbean> been getting on nicely with tomboy and ssh sync
<popey> oh good
<Laney> oh yeah tomboy!
 * popey has been getting on well with gvim
<christel> MooDoo: i share a birthday with my mum!
<mungbean> i lost the functionality on android but hey
<mungbean> i could perform some sort of sync to sd card via dropbox but its messy
<MooDoo> christel: yay
<Laney> kind of slacked on that a bit
<mungbean> tomdroid "After this release we will be merging our beta branch containing great features like note editing, two-way sync or tablet support"
<mungbean> cool
<mungbean> ne of the most important fixes in this release is the support of a secure connection to Rainy,
 * JamesTait has been using vim with the Orgmode plugin, and MobileOrg on my Android phone.
<popey> orgmode? wossat?
 * popey uses gpgvim plugin so all my notes are encrypted automagically
<popey> and thus I care less if they're in the cloud
<popey> JamesTait: i see your photos now, didnt do anything, it just eventually loaded
<popey> slideshow broken tho
<JamesTait> popey, looking into it.
<JamesTait> popey, Orgmode is an Emacs thing, but someone ported it to vim.  I don't really use most of its functionality, but it syncs nicely with U1 and gives me the ability to take notes, which is really all I need.
 * popey googles
<JamesTait> popey, trying to get a link for you. :)
<popey> http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/15/4332876/bbc-iplayer-windows-phone-8-app
<popey> for directhex
<JamesTait> Amazing - I can find URLs for the license, but not for the code itself!
<mungbean> gnote developemnt seems to be catching slowly
<JamesTait> popey, I think this is the one: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3642
<popey> ta
<redtap|away> OT | Nice viral video for someone in the Northern areas :: :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWu8FKdTJOA  ::
<JamesTait> Laney, popey: photo thumbnails took a long time to load, and slideshow isn't working? Is this still the case?
<Laney> no thumbnails
<Laney> go abuse #ubuntuone!
<JamesTait> That probably would be a more appropriate venue, actually. :)
<JamesTait> Laney, if you click on an individual image, does it eventually display?  I think it's just taking an absolute age to get the images from storage.
<Laney> let's see
<Laney> it's still pretty shoddy performance that I expect they want to fix
<JamesTait> Hence no thumbnails, because the request times out, and no slideshow because it moves on to the next image before the current one has finished downloading.
 * JamesTait <--- is "they"
<JamesTait> And yes, I'm pretty eager to get to the bottom of this.
<Laney> o rly
<JamesTait> SRSLY!
<Laney> I knew you were One Of Us but not which One
<Laney> yeah still waiting
<Laney> I'm trying to get http://ubuntuone.com/gallery/7hD0KeVYDzwPOQse2azLBm/IMG_1319.JPG
<Laney> huh! so I loaded it in Chromium and it came up after about 5 seconds
<Laney> firefox, still going - and no other assets like the U1 logo either
<JamesTait> Came up immediately for me - but then I've had that slideshow playing for the last couple of minutes.
<JamesTait> Let me try with a different album.
<JamesTait> Caching in the browser, on the server, etc. may be playing a part here.
<Laney> curious
 * Laney goes off to prod at rhythmbox instead
<JamesTait> :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Hey davmor2!
<JamesTait> Time for elevenses.
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> JamesTait: do you set your elevenses on my arrival or something ;)
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> davmor2: remind me to have a lighter option tonight
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's a point. If you're attending vUDS, will you be coming to the LUG?
<davmor2> diet cokes and a salad then
<bigcalm> Heh
<MartijnVdS>  \o
<bigcalm> Trying to debug somebody else's python code while they are not responding to emails. What would cause this to throw a syntax error? numericValue = 1 if value else 0
<mgdm> Works For Meâ¢. Wonky indentation?
<bigcalm> mgdm: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5667228/ that's a bit more context
<mgdm> works on 2.7.1 for me
<bigcalm> Is it a recent thing? The python embedded in this device is likely to be old
<mgdm> I don't know, I don't do enough to know
<bigcalm> mgdm: fair enough, thanks for trying :)
<bigcalm> Just checked, this device has Python 2.4.3 on it
<bigcalm> And doesn't support that type of if statement
<MooDoo> mungbean: I know you're a RHEL kinda guy, are you aware of this? - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=962792
<lubotu3`> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 962792 in vulnerability "CVE-2013-2094 kernel: perf_swevent_enabled array out-of-bound access" [High,New]
<popey> JamesTait: please make a screencast showing how to use that vim plugin, thank you! :D
<JamesTait> popey, I thought there already was one somewhere. I'm sure I remember watching one.
<JamesTait> Hm, actually it was probably this one for VimOrganiser, another Org-mode clone. http://vimeo.com/17182850
<JamesTait> popey, ^^
<popey> ta
<JamesTait> I guess it's almost time for our weekly visit from the JWs, so time for me to grab my lunch and disappear into the gara^Woffice.
<mungbean> MooDoo: yep, was talking about that last night
<mungbean> also affects debian stable too
<MooDoo> ok thanks
<MooDoo> mungbean: do you have a bug report link for that one?
<mungbean> i linked last night to a UVE page
<MooDoo> ok
<mungbean> perhaps not...hold on
<mungbean> https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2013-2094
<mungbean> jessie, wheezy3.2.41-2vulnerable
<MooDoo> thanks
<mungbean> from my wife: "I open it and see a man so I say 'I'm not interested if you're selling anything.' Man: 'I'm not settling anything.' Me: 'ok'. Man: 'i was just wondering if you'd like to buy a better insulated door.'"
<popey> hahah
<popey> my opening line to people on the doorstep is "I have a policy of not buying on the doorstep"
<mungbean> i have a notice that i point to and then slam the door
<popey> they don't realise that it matters not what they say next, the answer is always "no"
<popey> heh, i only have a notice on one door
<mungbean> i usually am holding a crying baby and fending back a barkig dog
<popey> but we have two front-facing doors
<popey> need to get another sticker
<mungbean> it's so selfish
<mungbean> it always wakes the baby etc
<mungbean> and if you ignore it the dog keeps barking until they finally get the message
<popey> i had one cocky guy with two girls he was clearly mentoring
<popey> he tried to use his sales patter, the girls smiled awkwardly
<popey> eventually I let rip â»
<mungbean> i hate it because having a massive notice is not welcoming to friends
<JamesTait> mungbean, maybe he knows someone who's selling those doors.
<popey> oh ours was provided by the police â»
<JamesTait> popey, "and the foul stench of the fart scared them all off!" :-P
<popey> or maybe the council
<popey> haha
<mungbean> i asked for a coldcaller-free zone
<mungbean> but there wasn't enough interst (i.e. i would have had to cold call my neighbours to drum up support)
<JamesTait> mungbean, do they exist outside of prison?
<mungbean> there's one near me
<mungbean> especailly if you live in a cul-de-sac which i do
<mungbean> if the 20 neighbours agree, then it's generally easier
<mungbean> the council put a sign up
<mungbean> and you can shoot anyone on sight
<mungbean> *may not be true
<popey> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Pkf2ETgjg-g/ULhfL3tldJI/AAAAAAAAObE/lBMcKXsGVwE/w645-h860-no/D224C113-3619-4F61-801D-A801C108EEC7.JPG
<popey> that
<JamesTait> mungbean, shoot them a death stare. ;)
<mungbean> i have one of those
<mungbean> unfortunately its there most days
<mungbean> especially my "smartphone frown"
<popey> need to get a second one for the "side" (note: not at the side) door
<mungbean> i think moneysavingexpert do one too
<dwatkins> popey: does the bottom half go on the inside of the window?
<dwatkins> or door
<popey> yes
<popey> back to back
<dwatkins> I couldn't work out where it folded.
<Myrtti> so, um. yeah. Does anyone know if Debian Wheezy still supports Viglen MPC-L?
<brobostigon> google I/O predictions ?
<MooDoo> they ar buying m$ out
<brobostigon> if only,
<brobostigon> bbm for android is interesting though.
<directhex> the sequel to everyone's favourite nexus device
<directhex> announcing the nexus QQ
 * brobostigon hugs his nexus7, he likes it,
<mungbean> is nexus 7 reduced yet?
<brobostigon> yes
<brobostigon> mungbean: long time ago.
<mungbean> and again in july
<brobostigon> which july?
<brobostigon> lol
<SuperMatt> with gsettings, is there a way to list only the keys which have been modified?
<SuperMatt> ah, nm about that now
<mungbean> this july coming
<brobostigon> mungbean: prediction ?
<mungbean> or is i/o goig on now?
<brobostigon> mungbean: 20 odd minutes.
<mungbean> i read lots of stuff saying they expect n7 prices to drop afer the new model announced
<mungbean> can someone explain like i'm five what an ERP package is?
<mgdm> I suspect AlanBell or TheOpenSourcerer could
<popey> heh
<popey> software to run your business
<directhex> enterprise ravenous pandas
<mungbean> is it basically HR and project resource planning software
<TheOpenSourcerer> does most core business "things"
<popey> payroll, sales & distribution, financials, everything
<popey> management reporting etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> Accounts, CRM, Warehouse, stock,
<mungbean> so it has to do all these things or some
<popey> it may do some or all
<popey> depends on the package
<mungbean> how do i know if its ERP
<popey> some are tailored to a specific industry like retail, education or the oil business
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some are "modular". You can enable/disable what you do/don't need
<mungbean> so northgate HR, or agresso, are they?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some are Free Software.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Most are not.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
<popey> if it integrates many of the above listed functions together
<popey> rather than be lots of disparate systems
<mgdm> Agresso always sounds like a tool for organising a hit on someone
<mungbean> i think the answer is no then
<mungbean> we don't use one
<mungbean> someone was asking if we did
<popey> most "large" companies do
<popey> and many small ones too
<popey> The term ERP has fallen out of favour more recently though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Libertus Solutions use an ERP :-)
<popey> is it Vi?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's the same one Canonical use IIRC
<mungbean> why did canonical move out of millbank? Â£Â£ ?
<mungbean> or size
<czajkowski> mungbean: we outgrew it
<popey> yeah, new place is much bigger
<mungbean> a field?
<mungbean> the cloud?
<popey> Bluefin
<davmor2> mungbean: millbank wouldn't allow us to have another floor, so the move to blue fin nearly doubled the floor plan
<popey> tis a nice office, much more open
<davmor2> popey: agreed
<mungbean> still west end?
<popey> and nearer to "amenities"
<popey> near London bridge
<popey> behind the tate
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9pmPa_KxsAM
<davmor2> popey: However I miss the view
<popey> google IO live
<popey> ditto
<mungbean> south....of..the...rrrrrriver?
<popey> ya
<brobostigon> popey: linkie ?
<brobostigon> woops.
<brobostigon> pebble, hhhm.
<brobostigon> definatly ingress inspired there.
<brobostigon> DSOTM :)
<brobostigon> googlers listen to floyd, yay.
<brobostigon> samsung are releasing an aosp android galaxy4, without samsung dodgy overlay.
<dwatkins> Chrome is rather popular.
<Azelphur> Is there anyone I can talk to who is a specialist at bt infinity? I'm having some weirdness
<Azelphur> before I moved TalkTalk said I could get fibre, then when I moved they said I can't, then I asked BT and they said I can, then I asked TalkTalk and they said I can, then they tried to activate it and they couldn't.
<Myrtti> AW MAN
<directhex> Azelphur, there may be come confusion at openworld's end as to who owns the line right now
<Azelphur> o.O
<Azelphur> directhex: any way to fix that?
<Azelphur> or to actually properly check if I have infinity
<AlanBell> go for a walk and find your distribution box?
<AlanBell> should be an A4 sticker poster on it saying fibre broadband here
<dwatkins> I just switched to IDNet to avoid BT infinity. Even on the same exchange different people can be told some can and some can't get fibre, though.
<dwatkins> as AlanBell says, it's the cabinet
<dwatkins> also, BT should have replaced your master socket front plate if you got fibre to the cabinet
<AlanBell> http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/attachments/sky-broadband-fibre-help/3549d1343934665-will-my-cabinet-get-upgraded-list-cabinets-will-inside-2012-08-02-19.23.54.jpg
<AlanBell> should look like that
<directhex> i don't think they have those on our cab
<Laney> some of them have it here but not all
<directhex> and i got my infinity from BT. no bandwidth cap.
<Laney> sounds infinite
<directhex> "If you're on Unlimited Broadband, Unlimited Broadband extra, Unlimited BT Infinity 1, Unlimited BT Infinity 2, or for customers taking BT Total Broadband Option 3 from 1 February 2013, we won't place any speed restrictions no matter how much you upload or download, even at peak times"
<directhex> "How does this compare
<directhex> your average monthly usage is
<directhex> 227.14 GB"
<ali1234> does ipv6 work on bt yet?
<brobostigon> native ?
<ali1234> last time i checked they were advertising broken tunnels so you couldn't even use 6to4
<AlanBell> 112GB for me last month, but they only count 8AM to midnight
<AlanBell> and I have a 250GB limit before throttling
<directhex> ali1234, nope, ipv6 sucks on bt
<mungbean> guys, seen this? http://donottouch.org/
<mungbean> coolest site of the week
<mungbean> this rogue traders programme is upsetting
<mungbean> blatant crooks misselling these mattress things to old people
<Azelphur> having fun with my net at my new place, Phone line works fine, ADSL Modem refuses to connect, Sync goes orange occasionally, but that's about as far as I get in the process
<dwatkins> Azelphur: did BT send someone out to do the install, or did you just plug it in?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: plugged it in
<AlanBell> so you have ADSL, and are looking to get infinity?
<AlanBell> infinity gets you an openreach box and then you need a different router that does pppoe to connect to that
<Azelphur> AlanBell: yea, I have ADSL (Broken) and I want Infinity
<brobostigon> interesting,
 * brobostigon makes notes.
<mungbean> the hags are arguing on apprentice again
<brobostigon> 7lol
<brobostigon> lol
<Myrtti> I am going to escape mwhahahahahaha
<dwatkins> \m\w\h\a\h\a\h\a\h\a\h\a\h\a\h\a
<mgdm> hahaha
<mgdm> well played, dwatkins
<mungbean> dwatkins: is officially bored
<dwatkins> not at all, I've been reading about the zpanel wars on /r/netsec and feeding my rats pasta, I just saw Myrtti's line and felt compelled to respond in kind.
<mungbean> there so much i could be doing but baby has only just stopped crying and im scared to try putting her in bed
<dwatkins> mungbean: perhaps you need to play her some death metal... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x01j3M3PrGk
<mungbean> umm
<dwatkins> (perhaps turn the volume down first before clicking)
<dwatkins> hmmm, maybe it's "Black Metal".
<mgdm> That kid is more metal than I am
<mungbean> planning on making a lancaster for the dambusters 70th anniversary
<cocoa117> is it ever possible to have ssh client in the initramfs, so i can read a encryption key file from remote PC, and automatic the whole disk encryption process?
<cocoa117> i know the drapbear is one solution, but i don't think i need the ssh server running on initramfs
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-16
<knightwise> mornin everyone
<MooDoo> hello all
<czajkowski> Gandi now offers discounts for Ubuntu Members -  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/05/16/gandi-now-offers-discounts-for-ubuntu-members/
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a way to focus Pidgin IM Conversation Window on raring running unity desktop shell?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<brobostigon> good morning BigRedS
<dwatkins> helloes
<knightwise> hey dwatkins
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins and knightwise
<dwatkins> If you have flash installed (and audio working) you might enjoy this brass band remake of some Daft Punk tunes... https://soundcloud.com/iamjasonalexander-1
<JamesTai1> Good morning all, happy Seamonkey Day! :-D
<MooDoo> LOL
<JamesTait> Seems like an odd one.
<JamesTait> Cos clearly all the other observances are totally normal....
<andylockran> gents and ladies..
<andylockran> anyone got recommendations on how to stop phpunit crashing out on a fatal when running a CodeCoverage report (or set the params for which folders the Code Coverage should be looking at)>?
<andylockran> mgdm_: ..
<daubers> Random question of the day!
<daubers> What are people using instead of google apps these days for email and stuff?
<MooDoo> i'm still using google, no reason to change
<TheOpenSourcerer> Zentyal for our company email server, TB on the desktop. We do use G for shared calendars and some collaborative documents, and hangouts. My home email is G Apps.
<mungbean> zimbra
<daubers> Hmmmm
<mungbean> zimbra is all kinds of awesome
<daubers> I have a new thing I'm setting up and don't really want to shell out for Apps now it's chargeable
<mungbean> have y'all seen the OSS replacement for google reader that you can install on your own servers
<czajkowski> mungbean: are you american and from the south?
<BigRedS> mungbean: I thought that predated the demise of google reader?
<BigRedS> czajkowski: hackntalk.org is still saying "First HacknTalk is almost here"
<mungbean> the one called comma looks good
<czajkowski> BigRedS: hackntalkjune.eventbrite.com
<BigRedS> I've still not mailed gllug :/ should I just link to the eventbrige page?
<czajkowski> will update the site later on today
<czajkowski> cheers
<BigRedS> ah, cool, that'll be a 'yes' then :)
<czajkowski> thank you
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> 21 so far
<czajkowski> hoping tomake the 40 mark again
<BigRedS> Oooh, coool. Got another cake sponsor? :)
<czajkowski> did we have cake?
<czajkowski> we had yummy coookies
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, I counted those as cake
<czajkowski> ahh
<czajkowski> the bakewell tarts were rather tasty
<BigRedS> Ah! Yeah, those definitely count as cakes, surely?
<czajkowski> they do now :)
<BigRedS> haha
<czajkowski> hmm now I want chocolate
<czajkowski> bah
<mungbean> do duracell still replace items that get broken by their batteries leaking?
<mungbean> has anyone every got compensation?
<davmor2> Morning all
<dwatkins> mungbean: was this before the best-before date?
<mungbean> yes dwatkins
<mungbean> they leaked and spazzed all over my radio
<dwatkins> eek
<mungbean> good marketing ploy - advertise the guarantee and silently rmove it, while everyone remembers it for next 30 years
<mungbean> lol i had a tomboy bug/error and googled it. top link was a bug filed by popey in 2007 \o/
<mungbean> #152978
<mungbean> bug 152978
<lubotu3> bug 152978 in tomboy ""fuse: mountpoint is not empty" syncing over ssh" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152978
<christel> 4
<MooDoo> 3
<mgdm> 2
<mungbean> 1
<mgdm> Thunderbirds are go!
<knightwise> lol
<knightwise> taadataadaaaaaah !
<Myrtti> NOOOOOO only four teabags of Yorkshire for Hard Water left
<brobostigon> :(
<mungbean> /r/britishproblems
<mungbean> although Myrtti is a scandie and i hate tea
<christel> tea is revolting :(
<davmor2> christel: unless it's a g&t right then you like it :D
<christel> ew no, gin is as revolting as tea
<christel> (as is tonic water for that sake)
<christel> a hogsback tea is alright i suppose
<diplo> Afternoon all
<DanChapman> Hi all :)
<DanChapman> Is there much going on with the UK LoCo at the moment? I would like to get involved
<BigRedS> Heh. Apparently not :)
<BigRedS> Did you have anything in mind?
<DanChapman> Im not sure. As i am new to the community, was just wondering if their was anything i can get involved in
<TheOpenSourcerer> DanChapman: Hi
<TheOpenSourcerer> The "man man" is AlanBell who is at lunch right now.
<brobostigon> liquid lunch ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are always thing to be doing I guess
<TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: I hope not. He didn't invite me.
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: eeeek , :(
<DanChapman> TheOpenSourcerer: Hi, ok well i'm keen to get stuck in.
<TheOpenSourcerer> There is a wiki for stuff.
<brobostigon> i have just been playing with opensimulator the alst few days. challenging stuff.
<TheOpenSourcerer> DanChapman: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
<DanChapman> TheOpenSourcerer: thats great thanks will go take a look
<shrik> bye bye Broadcom! Hello Intel!
<shrik> i took someone's advice on here and replaced my shitty Broadcom wireless card with an Intel
<directhex> hm
<shrik> and I can see the difference already -- so thank you, whoever it was!
<directhex> but everyone loves broadcom now, for their Raspberry Pi involvement!
<shrik> wait, really?
<directhex> i dunno. i assume so
<directhex> i know i fell out with intel wifi, over their broken 802.11n implementation
<shrik> hrm. if they can provide a decent SoC for an Rpi then they should provide a decent wireless driver
<mungbean> yeah grrr
<directhex> the rpi soc is less "decent" and more "on crack"
<shrik> heh why's that?
<BigRedS>  directhex: my intel chip in my Thinkpad works well enough that I've no idea what it is
<shrik> directhex: erm, and what's wrong with the 802.11n implementation on the intel? that was my primary reason for getting the card :|
<directhex> well, it's down to what the chip was orignally designed for, then what that design became for the soc which was used in the rpi
<mungbean> 4965agn doesn't work with n wifi
<directhex> shrik, there's an AP-dependent lockup issue when connected in 11n mode. connection stops routing packets after an indeterminite amount of time.
<directhex> but it depends on the wireless AP you're connected to
<directhex> cisco are mostly fine. huawei you get minutes
 * mungbean has a huawei
<directhex> bt homehub is huawei
<mungbean> not sure my huawei is dd-wrtable
<mungbean> and if it makes a diff
<shrik> any idea what plusnet routers are? mine says "technicolor"..
<mgdm> that's the manufacturer, believe it or not
 * BigRedS doesn't believe it
<mgdm> http://www.technicolor.com/en/hi/digital-home/mediaaccess/dsl/wireless/adsl/technicolor-tg582n
<directhex> technicolor = thomson
<mgdm> ah
<shrik> really? so it's the same routers as the Speedtouches that used to go out earlier?
<shrik> also, um, a PSA: Plusnet stores passwords in plaintext..
<mgdm> Oh?
<shrik> yeah, I signed up recently with them. Their welcome letter had my password with all but last three characters *'ed out..
<BigRedS> hah, that's both useless and insecure
<shrik> yup, also shows that they store the cleartext passwords. Fortunately I'd used a throwaway..
<Laney> http://plaintextoffenders.com/
<mungbean> i thought that said somehthing else Laney
<SuperMatt> hmmm... clearing out a lot of the .files in my ~ has sped up my PC - most notably in launching a new terminal, and loading vim
<mungbean> search paths?
<mungbean> unity launcher takes 15s on my home laptop
<mgdm> did you remove .bashrc or .vim? :-)
<SuperMatt> no I didn't
<SuperMatt> and I don't think it's search paths because I'm pretty certain I don't have ~ in there
<SuperMatt> I shall have a look
<SuperMatt> nope, not paths
<mungbean> bash compleition?
<SuperMatt> I don't think so
<mungbean> dns issues?
<Laney> bees
<SuperMatt> is that directed at me?
<Laney> </directhex>
<mungbean> sometimes the prompt is slow to appear when it can't gethostbyname
<SuperMatt> hmmm... my hosts file is quite fulll
<mungbean>  a bit unlikely thou
<SuperMatt> indeed
<mungbean> i'm still suspicous of bash completion
<mungbean> isn't it called by /etc/bashrc
<SuperMatt> clearing out my hosts file a little bit helped speed it up
<SuperMatt> I think I've done enough now
<SuperMatt> I've done a lot of file clearing/moving
<SuperMatt> looks like it may have been tracker slowing my PC down too
<SuperMatt> there were a number of things really
<mungbean> oh tracker...shagger
<SuperMatt> indeedf
<SuperMatt> but I guess tracker is what's needed for super-fun-happy-unity-times
<zleap> how do we get at the advocacy kit if we don't use ubuntu, i am using lubuntu (given the kit is designed for ubuntu and flavours) http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/05/16/getting-the-ubuntu-advocacy-kit-to-1-0/
<SuperMatt> you can still complete all of those steps
<SuperMatt> it'll all work nicely
<zleap> but I can't point dash at anything as I don't have dash
<zleap> it installed fine so dash isn't a dependancy
<SuperMatt> well it'll simply somewhere in your list of applications
<SuperMatt> you'll have to track it down
<zleap> ok
<SuperMatt> gimme a tick and I *might* be able to tell you where they belong
<zleap> ok
<SuperMatt> /usr/share/doc/uak-en/html/C/uak/index.html
<SuperMatt> well that's the link it opens
<SuperMatt> but it doesn't look like it appears in any of the menus
<zleap> same here
<zleap> got it, thanks
<SuperMatt> it only appears in the dash because it reads all the .desktop files from /usr/share/applications. Lubuntu has a menu system with folders and subfolders, so relying on simply reading the *.desktop doesn't work
<mungbean> any nx/nomachine users here?
<SuperMatt> at least, I don't think it does
<SuperMatt> hooray! Now I killed and restarted tracker, my pc is back up to speed again
<SuperMatt> no more wait io, and my load is dropping fast
<SuperMatt> maybe I should learn how to make conky things and keep a track of tracker
<SuperMatt> after all, who watches the watchmen?
<zleap> SuperMatt, i am filing a bug report on this
<SuperMatt> zleap: cool, good man
<SuperMatt> guh, my pc is running so must faster now
<zleap> can i cite you as having found the same thing
<SuperMatt> uhm, sure
<SuperMatt> wait, no, not yet
<SuperMatt> lemme try something
<SuperMatt> even my vms have sped up
<SuperMatt> I must remember to keep an eye on tracker more often
<SuperMatt> zleap: what version of lubuntu are you running?
<zleap> 12.10
<SuperMatt> hmmm... well I'll try it in 13.04 for now, see what I come up with
<zleap> ok
<SuperMatt> if I still see the same thing, I'll happily let you cite me
<zleap> SuperMatt, submitted as Bug #1180843 as i suggested they include the link you gave me above to it,  to help users with similar problems,  this is a easier fix i guess, adding a local url to a website
<lubotu3> bug 1180843 in Ubuntu Advocacy Kit "Ubuntu advocacy kit not on menus in Lubuntu 12.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180843
<zleap> SuperMatt, ok np
<SuperMatt> there's really nothing more I need to add to this bug report
<SuperMatt> good work chap
<zleap> np
<zleap> also my first bug report, I have added comments to 1 before
<SuperMatt> hmm... my computer is going so much faster after tracker-control -e, I might just put in a weekly cronjob
<MartijnVdS> o/
<^Snake> I'm setting up my Laptop for dual boot (Vista & Ubuntu) on seperate partitions, I know I need to run Firewall & Antivirus on each OS, just wondering what recommendations for Ubuntu, as the versions I use on Windows aint making a Linux version
<MartijnVdS> ^Snake: Windows: MS Security Essentials and the built-in firewall
<MartijnVdS> ^Snake: Ubuntu doesn't really have antivirus, and unless you install programs that open ports, you don't really need a firewall
<MartijnVdS> ^Snake: but Ubuntu comes with "ufw" if you need it
<SuperMatt> ufw is a nifty little app
<^Snake> for Windows I use Comodo Firewall & AVG Antivirus.
<mungbean> it's a shame that bulletin boards/forums don't follow a convention that would allow you to use reader software
<SuperMatt> though I find the syntax of it a little hard to remember
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: you get used to it though ;)
<mungbean> a bit like rss reader/newsgroup reader for forums
 * MartijnVdS waves from Lulworth Cove btw
<^Snake> Comodo now makes a Linux Antivirus but no firewall, so that's why I thought I'd ask
<mungbean> oh lulworth?
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: epic
<SuperMatt> you can get avg for linux
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: yeah, beautiful here
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure how good it is though
<SuperMatt> http://free.avg.com/gb-en/download.prd-alf
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: drove here from Land's End today, have beautiful pics of both now :)
<^Snake> I just looked on the AVG site, & all I could find was their Specs saying for Windows only
<mungbean> http://www.flickr.com/photos/oimon/7050276535/in/photostream
<mungbean> durdle door too?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: doing that tomorrow
<mungbean> check the pic ^^
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: oooh, nice one :)
<^Snake> what is that "ufw" ?
<MartijnVdS> ^Snake: it's a command-line tool, the "Ubuntu Firewall"
<^Snake> ahh
<MartijnVdS> ^Snake: it's made by the people that make ubuntu, and it's a wrapper around iptables and ip6tables
<mgdm> You don't really get firewalls in the same way for Linux as you do on Windows - there's nothing that can trap individual processes that I'm aware of
<mgdm> Well, nothing simple
<shauno> ('uncomplicated firewall' ;)
<mungbean> see portland island behind durdle door? thats cool too
<mungbean> also chesil beach joining them
<^Snake> wouldn't most programs open ports on the net? Browser, Email, Skype (for Linux) ? etc
<mungbean> argh who just ruined g+?
<mgdm> ^Snake: No, for the most part they will connect to ports, not open any for listening
<SuperMatt> ^Snake: yes, you set your default rules so internal can reach external
<^Snake> what about utorrent?
<SuperMatt> but not the other way around
<mgdm> Well, yes, utorrent will open ports
 * SuperMatt nods
<mgdm> but it will not work without opening ports
<^Snake> so basically, ubuntu is tight already?
<mgdm> I personally wouldn't bother with firewall or antivirus
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> me neither
<mungbean> me threither
<SuperMatt> if it turns out that there are some killer drive-by attacks, I might think about it
<mgdm> I've not run either ever on any of my Linux machines (aside from a mail server where I had Sophos to scan email before hitting an Exchange server)
<^Snake> so if I use uTorrent to work with ppl in Canada & Japan, I would use UFW to ???
<SuperMatt> you wouldn't have to do anything
<SuperMatt> you set ufw to automatically allow everything going out
<mgdm> No, ufw will only break things
<MartijnVdS> only if you want to explicitly *block* connections you really need it
<MartijnVdS> or if you're paranoid and want to block everything and only allow things individually when you need them
<MartijnVdS> but that's going to be very annoying and a lot of work
<^Snake> mgdm said utorrent would open ports, so only utorrent would be able to use that, or would anything be able to sneak through that?
<SuperMatt> well sure, anything can sneak through an open port, as long as the attacker knows how to exploit utorrent
<mgdm> as long as there's not a vulnerability in uTorrent then it'll be fine
<MartijnVdS> even if utorrent has a vulnerability, it will probably be fixed quickly
<^Snake> so basically, make sure uTorrent is always upto date, but if I don't have it running, would the port still be open or closed?
<MartijnVdS> so as long as you keep your machine up to date there's no problem
<jpds> People use uTorrent?
<MartijnVdS> ^Snake: then it will be closed automatically
<jpds> Real men use rTorrent.
<SuperMatt> I've just been using transmission myself
<MartijnVdS> jpds: real real men use transmission
<mungbean> real men run a getty and speak binary
<dwatkins> about half the peers on a torrent I'm grabbing are running uTorrent.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's huge on Windows
<SuperMatt> yeah, we all knew that ;)
<SuperMatt> isn't uTorrent the official bit torrent client now/
<SuperMatt> ?
<SuperMatt> yes, yes it is
<dwatkins> strangely the first few results for uTorrent 3.3.0.0 are blocked, I don't think I want ot know why.
<SuperMatt> I don't know why anyone would use a windows client on linux, but each to their own
<^Snake> ok, besides the "Store" that shows up on the Live CD, what's the best place for looking for/at linux software?
<MartijnVdS> ^Snake: the ubuntu software centre
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: see my foot at the bottom for scale http://i.imgur.com/lkkVq8Q.jpg
<MartijnVdS> whoa
<mungbean> i used to collect fossils as a kid.. never that size tho
<^Snake> jpds mentioned rTorrent, looking online, Google says it's text based, is there one in a GUI ?
<jpds> ^Snake: No, it's suppose to be text-only.
<^Snake> ok
<mungbean> i don't think i even hav a bt client installed
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I think transmission is installed by default
<mungbean> so it is
<Myrtti> since this hasn't yet been here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-22542222
<Myrtti> EXTERMINATE
<Myrtti> This is not the Doctor you are looking for
<DJones> Heh, one for czajkowski, Irish court orders "the internet" to remove a video http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0516/450685-court-rules-video-must-be-removed-from-websites/
<DJones> I wonder what the chances of compliance with that are on a scale of 0 to 10
<czajkowski> DJones: it's an interesting case
<mgdm> I thhnk you could answer that in a scale from 0 to 0
<czajkowski> not just for internet law but irish law
<DJones> I agree with the prinicpal, but I can't see being feasable
<shauno> it doesn't seem impossible, given that facebook & google both have their emea headquarters in the republic
<SuperMatt> waaait a second, why *does* my work PC have tracker installed? I just checked my home one and tracker isn't in sight at all. No wonder my work PC runs slowly when there's a piece of software on it that isn't standard
<MartijnVdS> tracker? isn't that the disk indexer?
<MartijnVdS> wasn't that replaced/
<directhex> beagle!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: does that still exist?
<directhex> no
<directhex> shame, it was always better than tracker. except a bit crashy
<MartijnVdS> that made it useful: no more system load
<directhex> it was much faster at indexing
<SuperMatt> so tracker isn't being used?
<SuperMatt> I guess I know what's getting removed from my work PC on monday
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: is it.. firefox?
<MartijnVdS> :P
<SuperMatt> hurr
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> apparently, I'm 2 episodes behind on the Swindon Town Swoodilypoopers
<MartijnVdS> *watch*
<mgdm> the what now?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Machinima/TheMiracleOfSwindonTown / youtube.com/hankgames
<mgdm> ah
<MartijnVdS> I don't follow football at all.. but like this it's fun :)
<mungbean> might as well watch the bbc hoarders prog then..
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: there's a program about the history of "the tube" on 2
<mungbean> guy had a massive hoard in his house for 20 years and nobody knew, but a bus driver saw loads of flies , and the council gave him 42 days to clear it up
<shauno> I swear the only time I actually watch live/terrestrial TV is when someone in here mentions something
<mungbean> sort of guy that wears a boiler suit all day
<MartijnVdS> shauno: np ;)
 * mungbean thinks that someone is me
<mungbean> i never used to watch telly until the baby requires me to put everything down and watch tv only
<mungbean> i never used to spen devenings on irc either
<mungbean> hoping for cerebral stimulation..in vain :P
<mungbean> this guy isn't hoarding clothes and bags like the women
<mungbean> seems to be man junk
<mungbean> like paint tins etc
<mungbean> a garden shed but in the house
<mungbean> it seems common with epic hoarders that they can't usually get onto their bed to sleep properly cos of the guff
<shauno> bunkbeds ftw
<mungbean> i think my son is a hoarder
<mungbean> google has an "evil" approach to tax?
<mgdm> I would guess they'd not go as far as 'evil'
<mgdm> Amazon do the same
<shauno> everyone does the same. does anyone really want to pay more tax than they absolutely have to ?
<AlanBell> the problem is the Irish tax laws
<AlanBell> and to a lesser extent the other offshore tax havens they funnel through
<AlanBell> Ireland should be screwing more money out of the shell companies that reside there
<mungbean> i was quoting a govt commitee
<AlanBell> yeah, I watched it
<AlanBell> oh, actually I didn't watch round 2, was that today?
<mungbean> i would vote in a party that sorted out the thieving
<shauno> I think 'shell' is a bit of a stretch
<mungbean> amazon got a 2.5m govt grant. more than the tax they paid
<shauno> I believe dublin is paypal's biggest emea footprint, but for regulatory reasons they're based on luxembourg.  that's my idea of a shell
<mgdm> zsh is my idea of a shell (sorry)
<shauno> but for amazon, google, facebook, apple,intel, etc they have serious footprints here, not just a PO box for the taxman
<mgdm> Yeah; Google, Facebook and Amazon have serious buildings here
<mgdm> developer offices, and in Amazon's case warehouses
<mungbean> dambusters is so cool
<shauno> I meant ireland :)
<AlanBell> thick shells :)
<mgdm> shauno: oops, sorry
<shauno> I know amazon are finishing off yet another datacenter here.  google barrow st. is closer to a city block than a po box, etc
<mungbean> we could all stop using them..
<mungbean> do we have moral responsibility to use only ethical companies?
<mungbean> in the long run it benefits us all to pay taxpayers
<shauno> why not.  are canonical still based on manx for tax purposes?
<directhex> know who is ethical as far as tax goes?
<directhex> pc world.
<mungbean> carphone warehouse
<directhex> costa
<mungbean> me
<mungbean> i dont drink coffee , i cant afford such luxury
<directhex> costa's annual tax bill is enough to pay for the running of two 2000-student secondary schools, with full teaching & admin staff
<directhex> starbucks' annual tax bill is enough to pay for a drink at starbucks
<ali1234> i would argue that avoiding tax is the more moral choice given the way politicians spend the money
 * mgdm watches a debate between an MSP and an MP about the Scottish independence referendum
<directhex> ali1234, taxes get spent on things you don't like. that's called "society". you get schools, and you get military intervention in the middle east. all comes out of the same pot of tax
<ali1234> directhex: yes, exactly
<directhex> avoiding tax means less money for both. personally, i prefer an educated population
<ali1234> if we had an educated population this problem wouldn't exist
<mungbean> why not?
<mungbean> evrythings relative
<ali1234> because people would vote more intelligently
<directhex> everyone should have the *opportunity* to excel. those that don't have squandered the chance
<ali1234> directhex: but they still get to vote
<directhex> the alternative is allowing only those with the funds that opportunity. it is not a given that rich people's kids are all smart and everyone else is dumb, and unless that were the case, you are wasting potential talent
<mungbean> i know intelligent people who vote on opposite end of spectru, to me because they belive in different priorities and views
<mungbean> question time reminds me of school
<mungbean> some people are just too interested in politics
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-17
<knightwise> morning everyone
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Hi
<SuperMatt> hello
<kaushal> is there a way to focus pidgin Conversation IM window in raring running unity shell?
<kaushal> SuperMatt: hi
<kaushal> http://i.imgur.com/AdX5ila.png is the screenshot
<SuperMatt> I'm slightly confused by what  you're acking
<SuperMatt> *asking
<kaushal> SuperMatt: apologies
<kaushal> SuperMatt: whenever any buddy contact me in Pidgin IM chat, the window is hidden
<kaushal> so i do ALT-TAB to look for the conversation IM window
<SuperMatt> right, but you want them to be autofocused?
<kaushal> the issue here is i try to miss some important conversation
<kaushal> SuperMatt: yes
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure, tbh
<kaushal> SuperMatt: the screenshot i pasted
<kaushal> still doesnot solve the issue
<SuperMatt> ooooh
<kaushal> SuperMatt:  http://i.imgur.com/AdX5ila.png
<SuperMatt> untick focused windows and only when someone says your username
<SuperMatt> because I think you're saying you want to be focused only when it's already focused
<kaushal> SuperMatt: ok
<SuperMatt> I'm not 100% positive on that, but it does seem like you're going a bit over kill
<kaushal> SuperMatt: it used to work on 11.10
<SuperMatt> I'm sure, but 13.04 is a very different beast
<kaushal> but somehow does not work for me in 13.04
<SuperMatt> any reason you're not using epiphany?
<kaushal> epiphany?
<SuperMatt> no, not epiphany
<SuperMatt> empathy
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> I am comfortable using pidgin
<kaushal> SuperMatt: I am sure there is a config issue
<SuperMatt> probably
<SuperMatt> you might be better off asking in pidgin related channels
<kaushal> SuperMatt: ok
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello all
<shrik> hi MooDoo
<shrik> In the movie Olympus Has Fallen, they call the '#' a hashtag
<shrik> I think I cried a little
<shrik> but then I was crying anyway because I was wasting my life in that film, so sunk cost and all that.
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> awww bless ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, Happy Endangered Species Day and Happy World Information Society Day! :-D
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<brobostigon> good morning BigRedS
<BigRedS> morning brobostigon! How's things?
<brobostigon> <----- hangover central.
<brobostigon> and i have a cold.
<brobostigon> :(
<BigRedS> Ah, not a great combination. Hangovers do usually follow good times, though :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> BigRedS: yes, me and two friends, came second in quiz at local last night.
<BigRedS> Ahhh, not bad
<brobostigon> yep.
<AlanBell> https://youngrewiredstate.org/festival-of-code any younger folks or offspring interested in coding might like this
 * mungbean is waiting until it is socially acceptible to ride a push scooter thing to work
<mungbean> i saw 2 people doing it today, needs more ppl doing it
<mungbean> easier than boris bike and you can take it on the train easier than a folding bike
<mgdm> it's surely not acceptable if you're older than say 14
<BigRedS> those micro scooters?
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungbean> yeah those type of things, although i saw 2 guys today riding not so micro ones
<mungbean> http://www.skates.co.uk/scooters/microblack-foldable-scooter.html
<mungbean> would be great riding round campus on it
<mungbean> but i don't usually care what people think, i think this is too far until there is more acceptance
<shauno> why not be the egg instead of the chicken?
<mgdm> I would, no doubt, break myself with one of those
<diddledan> eggs are chickens.. very young chickens
<mungbean> because although folding bikes a la brompton are accepted, the scooter would make me a laughing stock
<mungbean> although i would get to work quicker and without the tube
<mungbean> for reasons that mgdm said
<dwatkins> brobostigon: I was supposed to go to the pub last night, but seem to have trapped a nerve, so I'm currently wishing I did have a hangover instead of being essentially immobilised :-/
<brobostigon> dwatkins: eeek :(. get well soon.
<dwatkins> On the plus side, I was able to get an appointment this afternoon, my doctor is clearly doing her part for Scottish independence...
<brobostigon> :)
<dwatkins> cheers, just means I can't really move. I may have to bang loudly on the floor to indicate to the guy shouting downstairs that he should really shut up...
<dwatkins> ...fun times with considering calling environmental health
<dwatkins> Thankfully, I just got 70 MBit fibre broadband :D
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> mungbean: I know quite a few people who use scooters to get to work
<diplo> I've used my kids in the past :)
<diplo> If you look at a few of the reviews on amazon etc quite a few people comment on there saying they use it for exactly that
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mungbean> maybe i need to get a job in the shoreditch area
<mungbean> although i'd have to grow a groomed beard and skintight trousers without socks
<mungbean> not sure i could do that
<mgdm> If you're concerned about using a scooter to get to work I think going that far might be a little extreme
<mungbean> have you been to bethnal green lately?
<mungbean> its all skintight trousers and manbags
<mungbean> apple macs and trimmed beards
<mungbean> its not a good look but nobody seems to notice
<dwatkins> use a tricycle instead!
<dwatkins> I have a Mac, should I stop shaving?
<mgdm> get a unicyle
<mgdm> and I'm typing this on a Mac, maybe I need to stop shaving too
<mungbean> hmm Â£20 in my amazon gift cert account..
<diddledan> I've got a mac, and a full bear-beard
<diddledan> I'm not using it atm tho
<mungbean> full beard doesn't count
<diddledan> phew
<mungbean> the hipster look is to get it close trimmed while still being beardy
<mungbean> stubble - hipster - old man - rms - bin laden
<brobostigon> how do i make folders in /var/www writable by apache ?
<mungbean> apart from the obvious?
<bigcalm> brobostigon: sudo chown -R apache: /var/www
<brobostigon> bigcalm: thank you.
<bigcalm> mungbean: but the user is generally www-data
<mungbean> chgrp wwwadmin -R /var/www; chmod g+w /var/www
<mungbean> chgrp www-data
<mungbean> and apache to www-data
<mungbean> add
<bigcalm> Oops, tab complete fail on my part
<mungbean> hybrid bike/scooter thing: http://www.outsideconnection.com/gallant/hpv/kick/kickbike.jpg
<bigcalm> Is that a postman's bag on the front? That would be a perfect use for it
<davmor2> Morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Afternoon davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: did I miss much after leaving on Wednesday?
<bigcalm> davmor2: did Adam try to chat up Page?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no but he went into motormouth debase mode and just couldn't stop digging the whole :D
 * AlanBell grumbles at libnotify
<AlanBell> stupid popups get in the way, go blurry when you hover over them, are not usefully clickable and *stay* longer when you hover over them because you want to click something under them that you can't see because of the blurry mess over the top
<AlanBell> moving out of the way would be better than going blurry so you can neither read them or click on the stuff below them
<diddledan> AlanBell, that's not how it's supposed to work? I figured I was missing the point somehow
<AlanBell> that is working exactly as designed
<diddledan> I guess I'm still missing the point then - like you
<AlanBell> they are supposed to blur when you hover over them, clicks go through them to the thing under
<diddledan> aaah
<diddledan> so it's the clicky click that's broken
<AlanBell> no, not broken, they are not supposed to be interactive
<AlanBell> broken by design perhaps, but the implementation is not broken
<shauno> moving out the way would be awesome.  I'm so used to being able to dismiss them on my regular platform, that I'd be chasing them around the screen trying to get the (x) to appear on mouseover
<diddledan> shauno, you're masochistic!
<AlanBell> think I might go back to gnome shell for a bit
<shauno> diddledan: you know me too well, that's cheating.
<diddledan> :-p
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22567656
<kvarley-work> I need to get the system cpu usage as a number in order to display a web based graph of it. How can I do this? I'm using sar 0 at the moment but I need to filter everything out apart from the number
<mungbean> averaged over how long?
<kvarley-work> mungbean: Just what's happening currently, 1 second I guess.
<Darael> kvarley-work: Looking at the output of sar.sysstat 0, a job for awk?
<kvarley-work> Darael: Yeah sounds about right. I'm not quite sure how to get the value though as there is no leading value to filter by. I guess I would need to jump between the ines and columns?
<mungbean> use vmstat 1 |  suitable awk command?
<BigRedS> depends how you define 'system cpu usage'
<mungbean> kvarley-work: i used to use a programme called SARge which plotted this for you. other newer versions are available
<Darael> If we *assume* that sar.sysstat 0 includes the specific number kvarley-work is after, given that this is what they said they were using...
<mungbean> you don't have to write it yourself
<BigRedS> ah yeah, kvarley-work your problem is basically solved by munin
<BigRedS> (and cacti and all the rest, but I like munin)
<directhex> munin /o\
<Laney> moonin
<mungbean> moomin
<directhex> mumintroll!
<BigRedS> is there something wrong with munin?
<mungbean> boooooooooored
<mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Screen-Allwinner-1-0GHz-Android-Tablet/dp/B0099NPR4S/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1368800920&sr=8-15&keywords=nook
<mungbean> Â£35 tablet?
<mgdm> It won't be worth what you pay for it :-)
<AlanBell> depends on your expectations
<mungbean> vs nook simple
<mungbean> if your expectations are just reading books in bed at night..
<AlanBell> . . . then you want a higher resolution screen
<funkyHat> 3 hour battery life? :(
<funkyHat> Otherwise it doesn't actually look that bad
<dwatkins> http://linkxs.org/freezing-a-raspberry-pi-in-liquid-nitrogen/
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<dwatkins> indeed
<bigcalm> I'm really poop at the "waiting for elevator" section of HL2 ep1 :(
<bigcalm> Only thing I'm good at is dying quickly
<dwatkins> bigcalm: that's one of my favourite bits, it's really dark and scary
 * bigcalm grumbles
<MartijnVdS> the flares are useful
<MartijnVdS> they burn zombies and give light
<MartijnVdS> also, exploding stuffs++
<MartijnVdS> just hold a flare with the gravity gun
<MartijnVdS> and then walk near a zombie
<knightwise> hmm.. I wonder if my I3 laptop could run team fortress
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: is it sandy bridge/ivy bridge or haswell?
<bigcalm> I had to dial down all of the settings to have HL2 ep1 run at all on my i3 laptop
<MartijnVdS> It won't run on my i5 at home because it's pre-SB and too old :(
<knightwise> dunno actually
<MartijnVdS> well it runs, but badly
<knightwise> its a hasswell
<MartijnVdS> those arent released until next month!
<knightwise> I have a masochistic trait of tryin to run crud on hw thats too light for it
<knightwise> while i have powerfull machines lying around upstairs
<dwatkins> I can run HL2 on my quad core core2duo desktop.
<dwatkins> I guess the fact it has a fairly beefy AMD graphics card helps.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yeah, the intel graphics are my problem
<Darael> I'm only using my laptop these days.  And I can really see the difference in games when I run Steam with primusrun.
<MartijnVdS> primusrun?
<MartijnVdS> ah.. nvidia thingy
<Darael> Yeah.  Optimus is annoying, but at least Bumblebee works quite effectively these days.
<MartijnVdS> If I have money left over after this week-long road trip through the south of England, I'm upgrading to Haswell
<bigcalm> Made it past. That was painful
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: heart rate: 232 bpm?
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: no, thankfully. I've had to play that bit so often that it doesn't get my heart racing
<MartijnVdS> first time I played it though...
<mungbean> got my g+ single column back, phew
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> anyone seen this: http://www.fairphone.com/ yet?
<ball> What's one of those?
<Myrtti> looks like an android
<ali1234> ubuntu has it's own printer settings dialogue which is specifically hidden from gnome and kde
<ali1234> that effectively means it is only accessible through unity
<ali1234> the one provided by gnome cannot detect USB printers
<ali1234> so to all those people saying "if you don't like unity you can just install another desktop, there is no need to switch distro" i say "yes, if you don't ever want to print anything"
<ali1234> oh good. the printer doesn;t work anyway
<ali1234> what version of cups is included in the 12.04.2 live cd?
<ali1234> not one that works apparently
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-18
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: everyone uses network printers these days, right? ;)
<knightwise> mornin
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: my printer is only the netork thanks to a tiny little linux device ;)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> hiya
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<dwatkins> I think today I will finally get to play some Half-Life 2 on Ubuntu :D
<brobostigon> :)
<Azelphur> Damn google dropping XMPP support, I am annoyed as hell now :@
<mungbean> really?
<Azelphur> Use our protocol, it's interoperable and open they say, write all your code on their platform
<Azelphur> and then nope, screw you and your stuff.
<Azelphur> mungbean: yup
<Azelphur> http://windowspbx.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/hangouts-wont-hangout-with-other.html
<mungbean> when?
<Azelphur> a few days ago
<mungbean> pidgin still works
<Azelphur> mungbean: read the article
<Azelphur> or at least the "What does this mean technically today?" part
<Azelphur> it bricks the entire system.
<Azelphur> I have bots that sit on XMPP so now they can't talk to my phone at all :@
<shauno> yeah.  it's not broke yet, but it will be.  bah.
<shauno> bit of a bummer.  just letting people use gmail instead of trying to move them to jabber was so much easier.  but now we leap back 10 years to having to advocate protocols again
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> half my contact list I can't even talk to - this is crazy.
<shauno> really?  mine are still showing up as long as it's via gmail, rather than g+
<Azelphur> shauno: yea, but I can't talk using my tablet
<shauno> surely that's app-specific?  if you're using something that logs into hangouts instead of google-talk?
<shauno> if they keep up like this, people might stop looking at me funny for hosting my own mail/jabber/calendar/etc
<brobostigon> owncloud being one option.
<shauno> yeah, I'm using that for the calendar at the moment
<brobostigon> similerly here, contacts aswell. kinda.
<shauno> it feels a bit overweight for this single task, but it works
<brobostigon> fair point,
<shauno> I didn't get on with it's file syncing so well though, so I'm back to dropbox.  but for the calendar, it's working out better than watching google drop caldav so far
<brobostigon> i think a walk into town is called for, my dad is monopolising the tv with the cricket.
<Azelphur> shauno: yea, I'm thinking of bailing on the google XMPP stuff too, so frustrating.
<Azelphur> after all the work I did to make nice things on that protocol, they do this -.-
<shrik> I quite like this thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1ekh8b/nondeveloper_users_why_do_you_use_linux/
<MartijnVdS> Laney: hm?
<MartijnVdS> so
<MartijnVdS> does anyone know if there's anything to do between Colchester, Ipswich and Harwich? :)
<brobostigon> go to the weatherspoons on clacton beach, and enjoy beer.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: beer is out, I'm driving :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh dear, :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: colchester does have a LUG.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have all of tomorrow to wait (for the boat back home)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: been driving to Land's End & back the past week
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah. i have been around that area before, parents used to have a flat in clacton.
<mungbean> colchester zoo
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: ooh, zoos are fun :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: animals love having their picture taken
 * brobostigon pretends to be a lion, RAWR.
 * MartijnVdS took pictures of Nerina Pallot at Minack on Wednesday.. that was one amazing show
<MartijnVdS> also, the theatre is *WOW*
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> Lots of pics from the coast (path) around there
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> Oh and I went to Lulworth Cove/Stair Hole/Durdle Door (on a sunny day! the pictures are amazing!)
<brobostigon> wicked.
<MartijnVdS> yeah, the south coast is beautiful, I've found
<brobostigon> :D
<Myrtti> could always poke Gary but he's so busy nowadays he's rarely on IRC
<mungbean> waited all week for an evening without baby and i'm too tired to do anything
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: watch Eurovision
<mungbean> i want to do stuff, but too zzzzzzzz
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<mungbean> my monring wil start at 5am prboably though
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> wait a second.. there's "holland-on-sea"?
<brobostigon> yes.
<MartijnVdS> I must go there and take a picture of the sign :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: right next to clacton is memory serves.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yeah, I was looking at gmaps
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: one evening, i was caught tipsy on dad push bike, down that direction.
<brobostigon> on my dads push bike.
<brobostigon> when i once visited when they lived there.
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
<brobostigon> no joke, :)
<mungbean> why the heck is hugin so tricky to use
<MartijnVdS> because it's so powerful and hasn't had enough rounds of UX design
<brobostigon> !info hugin
<lubotu3> hugin (source: hugin): panorama photo stitcher - GUI tools. In component universe, is optional. Version 2011.4.0+dfsg-5ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 1259 kB, installed size 4067 kB
<mungbean> just clicking blindly in the hope of results
<mungbean> fail
<mungbean> win
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/6TgTE8s.jpg
<AlanBell> nice mungbean :)
<mungbean> :)
<mungbean> sometimes i take photos for later stitching but then forget and think they were just badly framed shots
<mungbean> these ones are 4 yrs old
<mungbean> i saw 3 next to each other and though...hmmm looks like i did that deliberately
<funkyHat> mungbean: what did you use to do the stitching?
<mungbean> hugin
<mungbean> apt-got it on 12.04
<mungbean> i think
<mungbean> this is an older effort pre-hugin of snowdonia
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/u30dm6j.jpg
<mungbean> 5 or 6 pics i think made that
<mungbean> bah, i hate the safe places i choose to hide things in. just found a paint brush that i'd lost for 2 months cos it was too well secreted
<mungbean> i hope this is what google glass will fix
<AlanBell> cheaper to buy a new brush
<mungbean> except i lose things all the time
<mungbean> i lost PES for the wii for 2 yrs
<mungbean> found the dvd inside some old linux magazine dvd cases as i was throwing them out
<funkyHat> You'll be like Professor Brainstorm, need a google glass specifically for finding your google glass
<funkyHat> *Branestawm, apparently
<ali1234> hugin isn't even that good
<ali1234> most of the configuration is for special panoramic lenses which you probably don't have
<ali1234> it's not really for stitching together snaps taken on a normal camera
<ali1234> and doesn't really do a very good job of it
<MartijnVdS> so what's better
<ali1234> photoshop
<MartijnVdS> and affordable
<ali1234> nothing
<ali1234> although actually the panorama apps on any smartphone these days will do a better job than hugin
<MartijnVdS> Google is going to introduce something like this on g+ I heard
<ali1234> if you want something better than hugin your best bet is to write it yourself
<MartijnVdS> but I no know graphics!
<MartijnVdS> pixels iz hard!
<ali1234> such is life
<ali1234> you can probably do a better job rotating and resizing the images by hand
<MartijnVdS> but that takes forever-ish
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> if you only want a result as good as what you get from hugin it would take about 30 seconds per photo
<ali1234> if you want it to actually look like one big image with no weird artifacts then it would take longer of course
<MartijnVdS> but doesn't hugin do perspective correction based on lens type?
<ali1234> only for special panaoramic lenses which you don't have, as i said
<ali1234> that mode is entirely for those special 360 degree panorama camera with special mount and lense
<MartijnVdS> it's still better than nothing.
<ali1234> it is exactly equal to nothing because it has no effect on a normal photograph
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: hugin-stitched panoramas still look better than the ones I can do by hand.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: as I don't want to spend days lining it up pixel-perfect, and finding the "perfect" crop
<ali1234> hugin doesn't do that either
<MartijnVdS> it does
<MartijnVdS> not the pixel-perfectness maybe, but better than I could
<MartijnVdS> and it can find the "biggest possible crop"
<MartijnVdS> (that has no black borders)
<ali1234> it's not even close to pixel perfect
<ali1234> if you want then you're going to have to spend hours with the clone stamp tool removing duplicated stuff near the edges
<ali1234> because hugin can't do it at all
<MartijnVdS> I've been happy with the results
<ali1234> all it does is position the images in roughly the right places and then blend then together
<MartijnVdS> the Icelandic guy is from Dalvik
<MartijnVdS> never knew the Android bit was named after an icelandic town ;)
<brobostigon> intwesting.
<brobostigon> if i straightend my hair, it probably wouldnt be far from the length of that chaps hair either.
<MartijnVdS> Mine wouldn't.. by a long shot :)
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/6TgTE8s.jpg wasn't bad at all considering flash photog and no tinerking
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah.
<mungbean> hugin found 46 points to match to
<mungbean> for each join
 * brobostigon watches QI on bbc2 insted.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: my hair is ~0.5cm :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: nice
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, understood, yes, not much.
<mungbean> take note ali1234
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: he just likes to burst bubbles ;)
<mungbean> :P
<ali1234> mungbean: that is what, 3 photos?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> plenty of chance of ruining the perspective
<mungbean> you can see the join on the middle right 2/3
<mungbean> but i did nothing besides auto mode
<ali1234> the first seam is about 1/3 of the way into the engine
<ali1234> the second is in the middle of the wing and much more noticable
<Myrtti> here's something that almost justifies the existance of the Romanian performer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELXeLkkhfXk
<mungbean> i've done some massive football stadium ones which look great
<mungbean> certainly more effecient that any manual job
<bigcalm> Good evening kids :)
<MartijnVdS> o/
<[JethroDawnfine]> ;)
<zleap> hi
<bigcalm> ep1 complete, on to replaying ep2
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-19
<ali1234> was anyone else complete confused by that doctor who episode?
<directhex> ali1234, modern doctor who is a series of deus ex machina, strung together with silly faces
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> anyone know if there's a simple way to reload the config in monitors.xml from command line?
<bigcalm> Afternoon peeps
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm
<SuperMatt> hullo
<brobostigon> hi SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> hi hi
<bigcalm> Oh, there be life
<SuperMatt> just about
<bigcalm> I'm going to be sad once I've completed hl2ep2 due to there being no ep3 or hl3
<bigcalm> Possibly get Portal2 on Linux before any more HL stuff
<SuperMatt> I was planning on being sad about that, but I've found the hl2 beta to be wholly inconsistant with my save games
<bigcalm> I started each one from the beginning
<bigcalm> I think they've added new achievements
<GentileBen> bigcalm, you're about 10 years too late.
<GentileBen> Well...about 7 years too late.
<GentileBen> HL2E2 was released in 2007.
<GentileBen> Unfortunately I don't think we're going to see an E3 or a HL3.
<GentileBen> Gabe Newell will have his foot amputated due to the diabeetus, before we see HL3.
 * popey waves from Spain
<penguin42> is it nice and warm?
<popey> not bad
<popey> 18 degrees
<popey> was 35 last week
<penguin42> weather thing says it's 14c here
<zleap> bigcalm, i amn sure portal is on steam
<penguin42> hmm, I suppose I'd better do something about an rss reader
<dwatkins> Yeah, Portal is in beta on Steam for Linux.
<gcj> Please could someone review: https://github.com/django/django/pull/1175
<mgdm> gcj: wrong window? :)
<penguin42> hmph, that's naughty - newsblur has a button to import from google reader, lets you go through all that, lets you register an account - and only then tells you that free accounts are disabled
<dwatkins> they are, penguin42? I have a free account with newsblur.
<dwatkins> I assume it's a temporary thing.
<penguin42> dwatkins: That's what it said when I went through the standard sign up process and wouldn't let me go further; having said that I hit back a few times and it seems to have done it?!
<penguin42> right, that's android app for newsblur installed, and it seems to be working (for free)
<dwatkins> cool - I really like it
<dwatkins> The other similar app I've used is Tiny Tiny RSS, but I prefer Newsblur.
<penguin42> yeh I was looking at that; I might switch to that since I have my own VM anyway, I could install a tss instance on there and be free of any external stuff
<dwatkins> The web interface for ttrss is pretty neat, but I'm not so fond of its mobile client.
<penguin42> there looks like there is a fork of the android client, not looked at either yet
<twager> Anyone tried a tp-link td-w8951nd router ?
<bigcalm> Foobar
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-12
<ali1234> wow, youtube api v3 is totally and utterly broken
<daftykins> that's the definition of API updates no? :D
<ali1234> if you want to get a list of videos uploaded by the people you are subscribed to, this takes 1 request per 50 subscriptions + 2 requests per subscription
<ali1234> in v2 it's one request
<ali1234> they must be really desperate to force people onto they obnoxious front page
<daftykins> :<
<ali1234> you also can't do anonymous requests any more
<ali1234> so if you want an rss feed of this, you have to make your own application in the google developer console, then host it somewhere
<ali1234> and then you have a limit of 50M "units" per day
<ali1234> where each requests you make is about 50 units
<ali1234> if your rss feed updates once per minute you will exceed the api limits if you have more than about 50 subscriptions
<ali1234> actually that isn't true at all, you'll only get to about 14% of the daily limit
<ali1234> whatever, that's still crap, just to get a damn rss feed
<daftykins> forcing people to have identities? :(
<daftykins> that really sucks
<ali1234> you're not forced to have a youtube account
<ali1234> you're only forced to have a google account in order to get a developer key
<daftykins> would that not be the alternative to this meter'd access?
<ali1234> the metering isn't the problem
<ali1234> the problem is that the API is so bad you have to download half of google's database to get the parts you want
<ali1234> you can't just say "give me the videos uploaded by X"
<ali1234> you have to say "give me X's channel" "now give me channel's playlists" "now give me videos in the one playlist i care about"
<ali1234> and you have to do that for every sub
<ali1234> well, i'm going to release this software, and hopefully google will fix it when everyone starts hammering their api servers
<daftykins> they don't seem to have thought this through for efficiency
<ali1234> they want to kill the idea of having subscriptions and replace it with the obnoxious home page, as stated
<ali1234> it shows "activites" like "X liked a video" etc that nobody cares about
<ali1234> and also it hides videos for no reason
<ali1234> you can get that with one requests, but of course the data is just as bad as the homepage
<daftykins> oh i've not encountered this
<daftykins> i don't login to YT
<ali1234> you're not missing anything
<ali1234> i use youtube by subscribing to channels, viewing subscriptions in a firefox bookmarklet, and being in the feather beta
<ali1234> this means i never see the front page, and video pages don't have comments
<ali1234> it's exactly the opposite of how google wants people to use youtube, which is by commenting, rating, liking, and clicking on featured videos on the homepage
<daftykins> and having only a portion of their original brain, i suspect
<ali1234> i found a way to optimise this a bit: only need 1 request per subscription now
<ali1234> and 2 per 50 subs
<ali1234> the api is metered on how much data you pull so it's still as inefficient, but now it runs twice as fast
<Guest12029> morning all
<MooDoo> pah nick changes
<mapps> morning
<mapps> guest
<mapps> :D
<dwatkins> moin moin
<MooDoo> pah
<mapps> hey
<MooDoo> howdy mapps
<dwatkins> Why does software identify itself as "English (United States)" when there's no other English option available?
<MooDoo> the mind bogles
<mapps> hey MooDoo/ dwatkins
<mapps> brooklyn nine nine is kinda cool
<jussi> dwatkins: pure laziness, nothing more
<mapps> thought it was lame at first on e13 now ;)
<jussi> mapps: have you watched orange is the new black? (netflix has it, not sure i its elsewhere). I watched the forst one the other day, mildly interesting
<dwatkins> jussi: excellent show :)
<mapps> hmm i watched 1 ep..couldnt get into it
<Myrtti> dwatkins: because it might affect other parts than the language so it's better to mention it than to withheld and leave users wondering why the decimal delimiter is something else than they're used to or why it displays dollars instead of pounds
<Myrtti> or whatever
<mapps> will give it another try though it 2 people say its good
<jussi> mapps: yeah, sometimes things click, sometimes they dont
<mapps> jussi you watched the 2 24 eps
<Myrtti> (this without knowing what software you're talking about)
<mapps> 3rd ep tonight
<MooDoo> mapps: /me just started season 2 :) lol
<mapps> on 24?
<mapps> whatttt
<jussi> I only watched the first episode. you seriously think I have time for more than that per week? :P
<dwatkins> Myrtti: MS Office 365 - I was expecting an "English (International)" or some other option, but US is the only one.
<mapps> i thought you said youd seen the 2 eps for seaosn 9 MooDoo
<MooDoo> mapps: lol yeah :) apart from season 1 and season 9 not watched any others lol
<mapps> lol
<mapps> so u are watching seaosn9 too haha
<mapps> cool
<MooDoo> hehe
<mapps> jussi you seen all of 24 so far?
<jussi> mapps: I hate 24.
<mapps> woah
<mapps> seriously?
<jussi> mapps: yeah, seriously
<mapps> woah
<mapps> well
<mapps> check out brookyn nine nine thats cool
<mapps> weather sucks here again
<Myrtti> yeah, no chance of me doing washing and hanging it out
<MooDoo> was the village get togehter here yesterday, it chuffed it down most of the day :(
<popey> sunny here â»
<jussi> raining here :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> sunny here too!
<popey> might even open the blind and windows
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Out of bed yet popey?
<popey> hah, yes
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Nurses Day! :-D
<DJones> JamesTait: Pointed that day out to my wife, she said somebody needs to publisise that a bit more, she is a nurse and nobody she works with has heard of it
<JamesTait> DJones, maybe they don't read Nursing Times? http://www.nursingtimes.net/jane-cummings-and-viv-bennett-use-international-nurses-day-to-give-thanks-to-the-profession/5070647.article?blocktitle=In-the-hotseat&contentID=6855
<nigelb> Nurses are the most amazing people who aren't thanked enough.
<DJones> JamesTait: Probably not, she hasn't got time to deal with her patient list each day, never mind have time to read a paper/magazine
<nigelb> My mom gets migraine attacks, I think we know all of A&E (called Casualty here) nurses quite well these days.
<JamesTait> DJones, a common situation, sadly.
<JamesTait> nigelb++
<DJones> JamesTait: Very much so, she loves her job since she moved out of working on a ward in a hospital onto the community teams, but can be very hard days, up to 15 patients, plus driving between them, maybe one end of town to the other and back
<foobarry> evidence of a mouse living in the boiler cupboard in the kitchen - suggestions?
<DJones> Little black droppings?
<foobarry> lots of stuff munched
<foobarry> dog food and newspapers etc kept in there
<foobarry> physical trap, or poison?
<foobarry> i have a little baby and a dog so will need to contrains it to the back of that cupboard
<DJones> WOuldn't put poison down if you got a dog
<DJones> Always a chance some could get knocked onto the floor & not noticed
<DJones> I'd go with a trap and some cheese
<foobarry> although will be on hol for a week soon
<DJones> Grrs, getting fed up with receiving Cryptlocker virus attachments with fake headers & a zipped attachment
<MooDoo> DJones: ooo those are the best.
<DJones> Just had 3 in 1 minute
<foobarry> i don't get those. just scanitly clad women "i found u on dating site etc"
<MooDoo> nigerian fundage
<foobarry> nigerian fudge?
<MooDoo> fundage
<DJones> MooDoo: For some reason "fundage" takes me back to when I was schoolkid & a friends parents were given a pair of these for their wedding anniversary one year http://www.westoek.be/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/fundies.jpg
 * DJones passes out the eye bleach in anticipation
<foobarry> NSFW dude!
<DJones> foobarry: Well, you certainly wouldn't recommend wearing them for work :)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: depends on the job
<MooDoo> I'll look at home seeing as I'm in work lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "undies for two"
<MooDoo> ah lol
<Myrtti> foobarry: little nippers to get rid of the mice, child locks for minding the dog(s) and child(ren) from the nippers, and electric rodent repellent to keep the buggers out in the future
<foobarry> i have a jack russell, i thought that would be sufficient
<foobarry> will check out little nippers
<awilkins> Where's the option to remap the capslock key to be another super in Trusty ?
<Myrtti> foobarry: well, little nippers or anything that kills the buggers without poison
<awilkins> Headlice?
<awilkins> The modern treatments are great
<Myrtti> awilkins: mice
<awilkins> Oh
<awilkins> I've only had to deal with squirrels
<foobarry> squirrels are more tasty
<Myrtti> in a household with inquisitive eyes, noses and front limbs
<Myrtti> yeah, my sister's had only squirrels
<Myrtti> we just have weird bugs, ants, thrips and such
<awilkins> I had a whole mess of ladybirds sleeping under my windowframes this year
<popey> awilkins: i think the capslock re-map was removed
<popey> the ui was "simplified" I believe
<awilkins> popey, That would be why I can't find it then
<awilkins> Hooray for GNOME
<Myrtti> ants and thrips I hate, the weird bugs I protect myself by putting all my yarn into IKEA resealable bags
<Myrtti> I love the IKEA resealable bags
<awilkins> popey, Is it a gconf or dconf thing, do you suppose...
<Myrtti> http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/80251382/ & http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/60251383/
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: dpkg-reconfigure console-setup I think
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: if you want the change to be system-wide
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, That just seems to have changed TTY encoding and fonts
<MartijnVdS> oh
<MartijnVdS> there is one package that does keyboard stuffs
<awilkins> gnome-tweak-tool is apparently it
<awilkins> It has an amusing bug : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/gnome-tweak-tool-transparent.png
<awilkins> The UI renders as transparent in the compositor
<awilkins> And sadly it doesn't contain the actual option I want
<kbingham> can anyone help me debug some upstart issues I've been having?
<kbingham> sudo service tftpd-hpa start
<kbingham> start: Unknown job: tftpd-hpa
<kbingham> service --status-all |& grep tftp
<kbingham>  [ - ]  tftpd-hpa
<kbingham> and if I try to start tftpd-hpa via the init scripts it seems to bail out because I'm calling the scripts directly instead of through upstart!!! :(
<kbingham> have there been any major changes in this area in 14.04 - or could I have broken something on my upgrade from 13.10 to 14.04?
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: check /etc/init -- is there a tftpd-hpa.conf ?
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: also, check if it's enabled in /etc/default/
<hoover> Hi folks
<kbingham> MartijnVdS: cat /etc/init/tftpd-hpa.conf : present and correct
<kbingham> cat /etc/default/tftpd-hpa | grep RUN
<kbingham> RUN_DAEMON="yes"
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: and "start tftpd-hpa" ?
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: is the config file valid?
<kbingham> start tftpd-hpa
<kbingham> start: Unknown job: tftpd-hpa
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: maybe it defines a different name in /etc/init/tftpd-hpa.conf
<MartijnVdS> (is that possible?)
<kbingham> MartijnVdS: I can't see it defining a different name ... and the file is as was provided by the tftpd-hpa package.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<kbingham> Can I get any of the upstart to be more verbose for debug?
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: maybe upstart was confused.. you could HUP it to have it re-read its configs?
<kbingham> MartijnVdS: which process? I've got several:  ps aux | grep upstart
<kbingham> root       466  0.0  0.0  19732   944 ?        S    09:12   0:00 upstart-udev-bridge --daemon
<kbingham> root       772  0.0  0.0  15392   776 ?        S    09:12   0:00 upstart-socket-bridge --daemon
<kbingham> root      1296  0.0  0.0  15404   636 ?        S    09:12   0:00 upstart-file-bridge --daemon
<kbingham> kbingham  3438  0.0  0.0  18108  1152 ?        Ss   09:14   0:00 upstart-event-bridge
<kbingham> kbingham  3469  0.0  0.0  18184   700 ?        S    09:14   0:00 upstart-dbus-bridge --daemon --session --user --bus-name session
<kbingham> kbingham  3471  0.0  0.0  18116   640 ?        S    09:14   0:00 upstart-dbus-bridge --daemon --system --user --bus-name system
<kbingham> kbingham  3472  0.0  0.0  26696  1016 ?        S    09:14   0:00 upstart-file-bridge --daemon --user
<kbingham> kbingham  8367  0.0  0.0  11752   920 pts/18   S+   10:32   0:00 grep --color=auto upstart
<kbingham> kbingham@CookieMonster:/etc/default
<kbingham> ohhh sorry - that was a bit longer than I thought:)
<brobostigon> pastebinit, :)
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: process #1 -- init :)
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: kill -HUP 1
<kbingham> service tftpd-hpa start
<kbingham> start: Unknown job: tftpd-hpa
<kbingham> ugh.
<brobostigon> ls /etc/init.d
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: no not .d
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: is there anything in /var/log/upstart/ ?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, true, sorry.
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2196171
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: they suggest:
<MartijnVdS> init-checkconf -d /etc/init/tftpd-hpa.conf
<kbingham> sudo zgrep tftpd /var/log/upstart/* returns nothing ...
<kbingham> init-checkconf doesn't seem like anythings wrong - but I'm not sure what to interpret yet: http://pastebin.com/exVgemwV
<MartijnVdS> kbingham: in that case, move the file to some other directory, then back
<kbingham> ?
<kbingham> /etc/init/tftpd-hpa.conf ?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> move it to /tmp or something, then move it back to /etc/init
<MartijnVdS> upstart monitors /etc/init/
<kbingham> tried it : no change
<MartijnVdS> wait..
<MartijnVdS> are you running the 'start' command as root?
<kbingham> I've tried both sudo and a root shell
<MartijnVdS> those should be identical.
<MartijnVdS> have you rebooted since installing the package?
<kbingham> yes - freshly booted up this morning - this was running on friday :(
<kbingham> I suspect something is 'not quite right' in my system :(
<kbingham> hence trying to debug to find the root cause.
<kbingham> its odd - becasue some services work  but its only a couple that don't
<kbingham> docker.io is also doing the same things.
<kbingham> but I can clearly see in ps aux that docker is running ...
<kbingham> I wonder if its some sort of dbus comms issue ...
<MartijnVdS> could be
<MartijnVdS> also docker could be interfering
<kbingham> but I don't understand how some services are 'seen' but others aren't...
<MartijnVdS> I never trusted containers
<kbingham> none of this is inside docker ...
<MartijnVdS> no but docker might be doing "things" to the system.. I don't know?
<kbingham> perhaps
<kbingham> sudo apt-get remove docker on its way :)
<kbingham> grrr - I did two things at once and its now working but I don't know which one fixed it :)
 * kbingham slaps self because I know better than to do two fixes between tests
<MartijnVdS> which things did you do?
<kbingham> I've apt-get removed docker - but I also had a line in my sudoers : Defaults !env_reset
<kbingham> thinking dbus made me wonder if the env was screwed up by that...
<kbingham> but if it was that I don't understand why other services were found happily - and it was only select services that upstart couldn't see...
<MartijnVdS> I think it's the environment thing
<kbingham> anyway - removing docker and removing that line from sudoers and it magically worked.
<kbingham> I guess I can easily test by putting it back.
<kbingham> MartijnVdS: thanks for your support !
<MartijnVdS> np
<kbingham> At least I have a better understanding of the upstart config now :)
<MartijnVdS> .. which is going away :P
<kbingham> is ubuntu going systemd?
<MartijnVdS> yeah, after Debian decided they'd go systemd, ubuntu followed
<kbingham> I'd heard debian decided - I'd not heard ubu were following yet ..
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> raaaaa ssh session crashed
<MartijnVdS> yay byobu ;)
<popey> \o/ byobu
<popey> i use byobu on my local machine loads
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> I need to find a way to tell byobu I don't want to start a second session, or that I want to switch "windows" independently
<MartijnVdS> so I can have "0" in the foreground in one terminal, and "1" in another, for instance
<davmor2> popey: I don't run byobu on local as it didn't play nicely with remote byobu :(  There is probably a way round it I just didn't care enough to look :)
<popey> i dont use it nested
<popey> that way lies madness
<popey> ctrl+a, ctrl+a, ctrl+a, space
<popey> madness I say
<davmor2> popey: indeed
<MartijnVdS> same with ssh
<MartijnVdS> <enter> ~~~~~~~.
<popey> i tend to have terminator split-screen like this https://imgur.com/e3LfyME
<popey> top right is local, left hand side is remote box with irssi in byobu
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: why use different terminal sessions?  Why not just split the screen in byobu?
<DJones> Oh boy, wifes cousin has just put on twitter that she's just told a _blind_ customer in the shop she works at to "Look over there"......
<davmor2> MooDoo: so that is my testing completed for the day I done broked your ssh by saying hello on irc YAY!
<MooDoo> davmor2: test complete
<davmor2> MooDoo: how do :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: hello mate
<davmor2> MooDoo: is it grim up T' Norff
<MooDoo> davmor2: yah man init, it's well naff,
<davmor2> MooDoo: Command Yah not found, man init displays NAME      init - Upstart process management daemon :)
<Myrtti> I had fun yesterday making eSpeak read Sherlock Holmes in Scottish accent
<MooDoo> davmor2: /msg davmor2 http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/fb/29/91/fb29918a904914c9ec9d630bdb59ffef.jpg
<MooDoo> ooops lol ha ha ha ha ha h
<MooDoo> nsfw :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes i'm calling you that :d
<davmor2> MooDoo: fails at basic irc commands and then you have the nerve to say that :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: rats was thinking you wouldn't notice that part :D
<NET||abuse> hi folks, i received a usb3 ethernet connector off amazon today, trying it out I'm getting super poor experience, is there anything i can do to diagnose the connector?  its one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plugable-Gigabit-Ethernet-Network-Adapter/dp/B00AQM8586/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399892555&sr=8-1&keywords=plugable+usb3
<davmor2> NET||abuse: do you have access to a windows box?
<NET||abuse> hmm, i can do. migth take me a while to check
<NET||abuse> otherwise, actually i do have windows 8 dual boot on this lappy
<NET||abuse> yeh, may be the simplest way to test.
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: what kind of performance do you get?
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: or is it really the connector you think is faulty?
<NET||abuse> I was getting better experience from a mac usb dongle, but that overheated after about an hour or so every time.
<NET||abuse> i think it's either the hardware is faulty, or some settings on our network might not agree with some aspect of the device. not a clue though
<NET||abuse> i'll try it ina windows box when i get one free for a minute
<NET||abuse> guy beside me has windows 7 sony laptop, he'll try it now shortly
<NET||abuse> heheh, another reason i can't stand using windows, bloody thing wouldn't recognize the device or find drivers.
<NET||abuse> they send a minicd with teh drivers for it, but ofcourse you can't load them into slot loading drive :P bloody sony
<NET||abuse> so he can't test it.
<NET||abuse> i'll have to test it at home on the old toshiba with normal tray cd drive.
<NET||abuse> http://plugable.com/products/usb3-e1000/drivers  they say the driver is built in kernel 3.9 and later, i'm on 3.11
<NET||abuse> Tried al the ports in my laptop, there's 1 usb2 port so just incase that made a difference, I've seen a few instances of people saying the ax88179_178a driver is a bit slow
<directhex> the ax88179 ppa is *so* broken
<NET||abuse> ahh, that's the problem then
<directhex> hang on
<directhex> http://packages.collabora.co.uk/debian/pool/main/a/ax88179/ax88179-dkms_1.5.0-0.0+ccu4_all.deb
<directhex> i repackaged it
<NET||abuse> oh wow,, does this require a kernel recompile, or it works fine as module?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS, NET||abuse: that was why I suggested test on windows incase it is just a driver issue, you will at least know that the hardware is good :)
<NET||abuse> going to try that driver now.
<directhex> NET||abuse, just install that deb
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<directhex> NET||abuse, there's no ax88179 driver in the kernel, and the PPA everyone links to is packaged by a chimpanzee (e.g. it breaks every time there's a kernel update)
<NET||abuse> directhex: well, there must have been a driver in the kernel, as ax88179_178a comes up when it is plugged in.
<directhex> must be new in 14.04
<NET||abuse> I'm on 13.10
<NET||abuse> problem is i just went ahead and dove on your deb file :)   maybe i can list it or something. if 2 modules co-habit my system now?
<NET||abuse> unfortunately, i've rebooted and i'm still seeing the same problem
<NET||abuse> yeh, just restarted wifi, reconnected, all is fine without it.
<NET||abuse> in /lib/modules/3.11.0-20-generic/modules.order   i have two entries   kernel/drivers/net/usb/ax88179_178a.ko  and kernel/drivers/parport/parport_ax88796.ko
<NET||abuse> does this mean it is loading the 178a version and not the parport version?
<NET||abuse> or are these things unrelated?
<awilkins> Is there a way to specify your username / domain in an SMB link? The server connection thingy used to use a form that let you do this... but now you just hav eto feed it an smb:// link... and the auth prompt has this information in it instead
<dwatkins> awilkins: http://superuser.com/questions/344775/passing-unc-username-and-password-within-a-unc-path
<NET||abuse> dont see how to get it to use your replacement module directhex
<directhex> NET||abuse, doesn't matter if you're on a recent kernel
<directhex> NET||abuse, looks like 13.10 has it, but not older. i needed it for precise
<NET||abuse> directhex: well, i'm on 13.10, but i still have the broken experience, kernel 3.11.0-20
<NET||abuse> disaster :(
<NET||abuse> really hoped that usb dongle would work.
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: I have this one:
<MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003VSTDFG/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<MartijnVdS> works awesomely
<awilkins> dwatkins, Ta
<dwatkins> awilkins: no worries, I've had lots of fun with SMB/CIFS over the years - still need to find a good way to link my Ubuntu server to the corporate LDAP.
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/92rmnw78ysqf1jx/AAC0wvNZ83mE2FoYFvu7DFVla
<daftykins> looking at this laptop that someone spilt wine over
<dwatkins> I gather there's a service which does this, that's separate from Samba, but havn't used it.
<daftykins> they tried to dry it out then fired it up the next day - do you guys think that IC there looks like a goner? seems to be the only thing affected from a visual inspection, one very black fourth leg
<shauno> that doesn't look happy at all.  it barely looks connected in 4th & 5th pics?
<awilkins> Aha : http://geek.co.il/2011/10/25/mounting-smb-shares-using-url-under-gnome-and-kde
<awilkins> smb://domain;user@server/share
<daftykins> shauno: yeah in fact the more i look i think it's gone entirely
<Myrtti> http://satwcomic.com/greens ha
<popey> Ooh. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nvidia.valvesoftware.portal
<MartijnVdS> This app is incompatible with all of your devices.
<Myrtti> Play it on NVIDIA SHIELD.
<awilkins> That would seem to be all it's available
<MartijnVdS> EMONEY
<awilkins> Despite it being basically a Tegra app
<directhex> let's try that again: reading you loud & clear from $new_router
<MartijnVdS> yay
<directhex> 802.11ac... shame i have no ac clients ^_^
 * SuperEngineer really misses work 
 * SuperEngineer wishes he wasn't on enforced sick leave 
 * SuperEngineer tries hard to think of 3rd consecutive lie :D
<daftykins> does that mean you're bored enough to want occasional tasks to tide you over, SuperEngineer ? ;)
<SuperEngineer> errrrmm... tasks?
<SuperEngineer> extra tasks?!?!
<SuperEngineer> you don't think Steam & TV & lunchtime visit to office [pub] for pie & pint are keeping me occuopied??
<dwatkins> I broke my leg in 2001 and asked work if I could help remotely, they told me not to. I gather there are liability issues with doing work if you're off sick.
<SuperEngineer> ...and catching up with friends... and relaxing... and smiling when the sun comes out???
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: I don't have a choice on that one.  When I return & have not read and acted on *all* work emails, or I haven't answered ALL phone calls from work.. or I have lost my temper and said "FFSK leave me alone"... well, ouch!
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: :(
<dwatkins> I was on leave last week, and kept an eye on my inbox to save hassle when I returned, though, so I know what you mean.
<SuperEngineer> we are a class of people known to others as "twits" [twice weekly I take s**t]
<SuperEngineer> [couldn't think of one for "twice daily}~ ;)
<dwatkins> haha, I do that for 8 hours a day ;)
<dwatkins> mostly, people phone up in a bit of a panic, my superpower is to calmly get a problem description, and either solve the problem there and then, or at least define the problem and get diagnostic information from them
<directhex> 802.11ac!
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: my power is enhanced by the abilty to frown at a user who lies ;)
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: my favourite issue is when there's a licensing problem and it turns out the customer has edited the /etc/hosts file, I just smile and say nothing as they end the call in a flustered and embarassed fashion
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: I normally prefix with... "& who told you to do that.....?" [silence ensues for a while after that giving peace & quiet to work things]]
<SuperEngineer> & you should see how I treart the obstructive ones... tip: never say "oi you, have you signed our visitor's book" to me
<SuperEngineer> *treat
<SuperEngineer> [I proove that sarcasm really can be the *highest* form of wit at that point] ;)
<dwatkins> the best one I've had so far was "my son did this to the hosts file"
<SuperEngineer> yikes!
 * SuperEngineer looks at pop-up telling self "if you see this you still haven't backup". - see ya later folks
<dwatkins> that's a good point, I should back up my laptop.
<dwatkins> or 'backup my laptop' perhaps
<daftykins> why quoted? :>
<daftykins> dwatkins: who's editing their hosts file and breaking software 0o
<dwatkins> daftykins: I wasn't sure if the verb "backup" was one word or two, so I quoted myself having removed the space.
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> if it's a desktop replacement 17"er you could back it up then backup
<dwatkins> My customers sometimes edit their hosts file to stop our software from checking licenses
<daftykins> heh the cheeky swines
<Armag3dd0n1> sup :D
<daftykins> Armag3dd0n1: uh-oh you're becoming a regular offender D:
<Armag3dd0n1> yeah, I can't keep away. ;)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: did you have a photobooth at your wedding you made>
<czajkowski> I know someone in here wrote code for a photo booth
<popey> he had a tablet on a camera stand
<czajkowski> ohhh
<czajkowski> good to know
<czajkowski> cheers
<czajkowski> it's that time of the day, running a free event and wondering will people come along
<czajkowski> nail biting
<bigcalm> czajkowski: https://github.com/bigcalm/python_photo_booth
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I did start writing a photo booth system. But ran out of time/energy
<bigcalm> czajkowski: ended up using an app on my android tablet: http://hayleyandiainaregettingmarried.com/photos/nggallery/photos/photo-booth
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I put my python code for my photo booth onto github, hoping that other people might chip in. No interest sadly
<czajkowski> bigcalm: what was the app
<bigcalm> czajkowski: Party Photo Booth by Ground Up works
<czajkowski> cheers
<czajkowski> hmm not even my speaker is here yet
<czajkowski> always worrying
<diddledan_> nuts: http://www.tylervigen.com/
<daftykins> :P
<dwatkins> http://gizmodo.com/5977989/internet-explorer-vs-murder-rate-will-be-your-favorite-chart-today
<daftykins> dubious axes
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> screens gone black on iphone
<mapps> argh
<mapps> yet its on..must be something to do with the jb
<diddledan_> mapps, you can force a reboot with a vulcan keypress
<mapps> vulcan keypress?:D
<diddledan_> yeah
<mapps> all i seem to be managing is to take loads of screenshots of the screen
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> time to go android
<mapps> whats that mean diddledan_
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan_> mapps, it means that it involves more than one key
<diddledan_> mapps, I think holding down home+power for 10-30seconds does it
<shauno> (if you're lucky enough to have a power button  heh)
<diddledan_> well there is that
<shauno> I called apple about mine today.  they suggested a trip to belfast.
<diddledan_> they named it wrong in this article, but the idea is correct: http://www.techopedia.com/definition/24336/vulcan-nerve-pinch
<daftykins> shauno: i left that laptop naked again in the airing cupboard, having had its' isopropanol cleanse it powered up but switched itself off not having POST'd, i sense that one IC is important but ho-hum, i'll try anyway :)
<daftykins> (try further drying)
<daftykins> a new mobo is Â£85 on ebay
<shauno> daftykins, I couldn't read the numbers off it, but I'd be tempted to google them and see if it sounds important
<daftykins> good plan, yeah that was some serious micro print
<daftykins> for now i browse the Dell Outlet ;)
<shauno> chips on a mobo tend to fall squarely into two groups.  "a whole lot less important than you'd think" and "critical"
<daftykins> getting so tired of seeing 1366x768 res
<shauno> (eg "you don't have a firewire controller anymore" vs "you don't have a mobo anymore")
<davmor2> daftykins: you might want to invest in a wine proof laptop :)
<daftykins> davmor2: i'd prefer a wine-proof employee for my client, but i sense that's not on the cards :(
<mapps> ahh sweet
<mapps> it worked#
<mapps> thanks diddledan_
<daftykins> (i certainly don't go pouring things on my laptops, nor drinking wine!)
<shauno> but no spillage = no work ;)
<mapps> i wonder if this was just an ios bug or because my phones jb
<daftykins> shauno: yeah :D
<shauno> the difficult one is trying to convince people that drying things isn't always the best answer
<diddledan_> mapps, jb's are pretty solid these days, so I'd imagine an ios bug more unless there's a chance you've been haxx0red :-p
<diddledan_> mapps, or maybe a piece of software you've installed off cydia does some lowlevel stuff that isn't compatible?
<shauno> a lot of things benefit from being washed (alcohol, distilled water, etc) *before* the offending liquid has dried into gunk.  especially salty gunks
<diddledan_> yeah, once it's baked-on all bets are off as to wether it's ressurectable
<diddledan_> shauno, what about an acid bath with a wire brush?
<diddledan_> :-p
<daftykins> shauno: mmm, may be too late since she said she already had it in an airing cupboard
<daftykins> peeps need to know to give things to the IT guy BEFORE trying their crazy ideas
<shauno> yeah, that's what I mean.  if it's water, then sure, dry it with rice
<diddledan_> daftykins, definitely
<shauno> if it's something thick like wine, sugarry coffee, soda, etc, it works best if you can wash it while it's easy
<diddledan_> my bro-in-law managed to drop his iphone squarely into a full pint of beer
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> I had a buddy that did that on purpose.  it was epic
<diddledan_> lmao
<daftykins> hopefully someone elses iPhone
<daftykins> 8)
<daftykins> hey mapps wanna go for a pint?
<daftykins> 8D
<shauno> nah, this was back in the nokia-type era.  he had some phone which was supposed to be waterproof
<shauno> "see?  *plunk*"
<shauno> did not go as planned
<daftykins> lmao
<diddledan_> that's amazing
<daftykins> hey guys i got my WD warranty extension codes from ebuyer
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/a07en6f8oyvtz4p/IMG_20140512_183028.jpg
<daftykins> =|
<diddledan_> I noticed all the xperia adverts have the phone go into a small glass of _water_ for _mere seconds_
<daftykins> worse still check out what's inside the envelopes: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sict5th6k3ci4s8/IMG_20140512_183413.jpg
<shauno> well there's various levels of "waterproof".  splashproof, water-resistant, etc
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> these ones that are rated for 1m for 30 minutes - such an odd metric
<daftykins> does it mean that at 30:01 it implodes? :D
<shauno> I think it just means "we don't recommend finding out"
<diddledan_> this sounds fun: http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/May/48
<shauno> reminds me of a customer at work, they have a mid-ranged UPS (160kW) that has in its case notes that it's not elligible for any mffr warranty because it was fully submerged during hurricane Katrina
<diddledan_> present since 2.6.31
<MartijnVdS> ewps
<MartijnVdS> *waits for kernel update*
<brobostigon> is FB's xmpp interface to Fb messenger playing up for anyone else?
<diddledan_> brobostigon, I couldn't login earlier
<diddledan_> brobostigon, I gave up
<brobostigon> it just gave up on me about 20 mins ago.
<diddledan_> I changed my password a couple days ago, though, so I may be trying with the wrong one
<brobostigon> i am not getting authentication errors. just conenction ones.
<diddledan_> hmm
<shauno> it's working fine here
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<daftykins> shauno: apparently that bad component is a mosfet
<daftykins> so it's game over
<brobostigon> i added a new fb to bitlbee, now am getting auth errors.
<shauno> you any good with a soldering iron?  ;)
<brobostigon> yes
<daftykins> never touched one in my life :(
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> soldering is scary
<daftykins> there are some enemy shops around here in town, could be worth asking
<diddledan_> leave it too long and the "new" thingy is now a "baked thingy"
<daftykins> perhaps i'll see if i can acquire a replacement first
<brobostigon> telling bitlbee to use oauth for FB login solved the issue.
<brobostigon> in bitlbee.
<davmor2> brobostigon: I was going to ask what version of oauth you were using I guess the answer was none ;)
<brobostigon> quite.
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-13
<MooDoo> hello all
<jussi> oh cripes, its MooDoo. RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<mapps> hey Monotoko
<mapps> hey jussi
<jussi> (morning MooDoo)
<jussi> heya mapps
<jussi> mapps: I thought you had stopped talking to me because I dont like 24
<mapps> lol
<MooDoo> jussi: mapps morning
<mapps> very funny
<mapps> :P
<mapps> been offeed 1k/week if i shot pills
<MooDoo> trials?
<mapps> said to himi cant
<mapps> ive got a job)
<nigelb> Morning.
<Myrtti> boo, my Ubuntu sticker is coming off my laptop
<nigelb> I've seen that happen.
<nigelb> Myrtti: keyboard?
<nigelb> over the windows key?
<Myrtti> no, the one Dell has stuck on the rubberyish surface of my laptop
<nigelb> ah
<selinuxium> Morning all o/
<Myrtti> I'm just wondering how long do I have to wait until the laptop tells me I can update to Trusty
<nigelb> I'm thinking of getting a Dell laptop next month.
<SuperMatt> DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUN
<MooDoo> I've got one :d
<Myrtti> depends on what kind you're planning to get
<Myrtti> I'd like to read about the differences between Chromebooks
<nigelb> Lattitude in all probability
<Myrtti> yeah, Latitudes are great, I've got E6430
<nigelb> I'm looking at 6440. Comes with Ubuntu, which is great.
<Myrtti> only thing that I'm not sure if it works is wifi n
<Myrtti> fingerprint scanner obviously doesn't work
<nigelb> Heh, my HP has a figerprint scanner which I forget about, because I never used it.
<nigelb> I wish there were less plasticy laptops around.
<MooDoo> nigelb: I've got a lattitude e6510 i think that's the number but don't quote me on it.
<nigelb> Can either of you upgrade RAM on your laptops?
<nigelb> Like, is it user serviceable?
<nigelb> (bigger concern is harddisk, since I want to switch it out with my SSD.
<MooDoo> nigelb: hdd yes, as mine is just a slip in on th side of the laptop
<nigelb> Oh good.
<MooDoo> that's not saying yours will be lol
<nigelb> heh
<MooDoo> nigelb: I'm not sure if mine is the E6510 or not, i'll check when I get home, but looking at crucial.com I can upgrade it to 8gb ram!
<nigelb> The model I'm looking at comes with 8GB of RAM
<nigelb> which is terrific since I'm on 2GB at the moment :)
<nigelb> the speed on this laptop is soley because of SSD.
<mapps> morning
<jussi> nigelb: I can say with almost certainty the e6510 ram should be user upgradeable. (I have an e6500)
<nigelb> jussi: thank you
<nigelb> I like how ultrabooks look, but not being able to upgrade ram is a huge pain.
<jussi> nigelb: most (all?) of the lattitude range have upgradeable ram iirc
<nigelb> \o/
<jussi> nigelb: but then again, mine is a generation or so old, so there is a _small_ chance I am incorrect
 * jussi sips on his tea
<nigelb> :)
<nigelb> I wish it were cold enough for tea :(
<nigelb> Or rather less hot.
<nigelb> 33 to 35 C today. *wipes sweat*
<mapps> I OD'd at kings but
<mapps> i still love it
<jussi> nigelb: tea is perfect for that heat. it warms your core, making your body do more cooling, making you feel cooler
<mapps> maybe not od but had to go to hospital
<MooDoo> jussi: I'm pretty sure I upgraded my lattitude, and that's not the newest machine, but I'll confirm tonight, would be nice if I can go from the 4gb i've got now to 8gb :)
<mapps> so glad these peple work
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Leprechaun Day! :-D
<popey> Potato!
<mapps> morning
<jussi> potato leprechauns? :
<jussi> :D
<MartijnVdS> isn't that a sensitive issue? potato?
<MooDoo> have you all been watching keith lemon again?
<jussi> I have cold feet...
<MooDoo> jussi: put smoe socks on
<jussi> I have!!
<davmor2> Morning all
<jussi> morn davmor2
<mapps> http://www.videoweed.es/file/z6hh2ff2jfwgp
<mapps> sfw
<mapps> its just 24 hrs ae
<mapps> :)
<diddledan_> mapps, I'm supposed to be working and you've got me watching 24 hours in ae
<diddledan_> :-p
<mapps> haha
<mapps> 24 hours in ae is the 2nd best
<mapps> the nurses/staff do an amazing job
<diddledan_> indeed. I am in awe of a&e staff
<mapps> but the real 24S BETTER:)
<mapps> i donated Â£2500 about 7months back
<mapps> to kings
<mapps> id habe rather they all went out and had a night out etc
<mapps> but no choice
<mapps> a&e staff do a good job
<diddledan_> the ambulance crews are awesome, too
<mapps> yep
<jussi> 2500 for a night out? o.O
<mapps> thats why i said i wanted it to go to their xmas party
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> diddledan_ theres a lot of stafff remembe
<mapps> jussi-it was a donation in kind
<mapps> :D
<mapps> when i have my heart attack they'll be saving me
<mapps> theyre worth 1000000000x what we could pay
<mapps> i just thougt id have liked to have paid for their xmas party
<mapps> rather than another charity dination
<MooDoo> everyone having fun today?
<brobostigon> paperwork, so not really.
<MooDoo> yay
<awilkins> Monotonous fixing of defects introduced because I didn't have the time /inclination to insist on a proper validation check
<awilkins> Mostly the time
<Myrtti> my Beddit says I've slept poorly and by Gods I feel like it
<awilkins> Is that the thing where you tuck your smartphone into a pillowcase and let the accelerometer spy onyou?
<Myrtti> no, it's a tiny strip I put under the mattress, plug it in the wall and the phone connects to it over bluetooth
<popey> I had an early night last night, reading comics in bed.
<popey> had loads of odd dreams
<Myrtti> no overheating phone underneath the pillow anymore for me, thanks
<MooDoo> I sleft for 14 hours Sunday night, so I'm ok for the moment.
<MooDoo> slept even
<brobostigon> you can get similer apps for pebble, thats if you wear a watch in bed.
<davmor2> I very rarely remember any dreams
<popey> same here davmor2
<popey> but a good early night fixed that, had 3 very odd ones
<foobarry> the key is to remember them as soon as you wake
<foobarry> *recall them
<jussi> problem with beddit for me is I never know which position on the bed Im going to sleep - my daughter and my wife usually get there first, and I end up with whatevers left
<popey> how old is your daughter now?
<diplo> I can't say I've remembered a dream in years, and haven't slept properly in 2 years
<diplo> Sucks!
<jussi> popey: 2 years 4 months
<popey> awww
<popey> I sometimes let Sophie (10) sleep in my bed if she's upset or unwell, but that's rare.
<jussi> just trying to get her into her own bed now as the next one will be here soon...
<popey> Ooh!
<popey> Congrats!
<jussi> popey: you didnt know?
<popey> She should already be in her own bed, surely?
<popey> no, sorry, didn't
<jussi> hehe, no problems
<popey> when's it due?
<jussi> 23 September
<jussi> Elodi sometimes is in own bed, but not yet full time
<foobarry> you sleep with your 2yr old in your bed?
<diplo> My kids were in their own rooms after 8weeks~
<diplo> Was great!
<diplo> Get the occasional sick or early wake up call but most of the time they stay in their rooms
<popey> need to be careful, the combination of elodi getting kicked out of your bed to hers, and a new baby on the way is a recipe for jealous offspring â»
<jussi> yeah, might be a hippy type thing... but there are some benefits for co-sleeping longer.
<jussi> popey: she is making the move herself thankfully, although she still gets joy out of stealing "my" spot.... (the place where my pillow is)
<popey> heh
<jussi> http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/tami_breazeale.html
<popey> bet you wont do it with #2 â»
<diplo> +1 popey - my youngest missed out on a lot :)
<popey> parents are generally waaaay more relaxed with #2, #3 etc than #1
<popey> even so far as washing baby bottles and stuff
<popey> "pfft, that's clean enough"
<diplo> The reason I moved the kids out is my ex used to wake up to every single movement and basically wasn't sleeping even though the kids were
<popey> "meh, he can stay up later, he'll live"
<jussi> hehe
<diplo> So true
<popey> yeah, it doesn't lend well to a well rested parent
<Myrtti> I still slept with my parents when I was in school - keeping in mind I started school at seven like kids do in Finland
<Myrtti> I was about 9 when I finally got the boot
<diplo> Blimey!
<popey> crikey
<jussi> although now that Sari has done Doula training, certain things are much stronger than with elodi
<diplo> I'd have gone insane :D
<Myrtti> mind you, I sleep like a rock
<diplo> Doula? Potty ?
<Myrtti> I wake up in the exact same position I fell asleep in
<diplo> I wake at any movement in the house
<diplo> Myrtti, may I say I dislike you :(
<popey> haha
<Myrtti> diplo: I wake up to light
<jussi> diplo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doula
<diplo> My ex used to put her head on the pillow and 2 mins later would be snoring away, I'd still be awake an hour later
<popey> i nudged wifey the other night because she was snoring in my ear. I said "hey, turn over babes".. she was asleep and said "I can't turn over, you're watching youtube on the chromecast"
<popey> she thought I meant "turn the telly over"
<popey> so now I have to say "roll over"
<jussi> ha!
<diplo> Same here, its why I have black out blinds and curtains in all the rooms, can't sleep during the day for the same reason
<popey> we have full blown arguments while she's asleep
<popey> its quite fun
<nigelb> oh man
<diplo> ah I've heard of those now jussi
<nigelb> I have this too
<jussi> I find it can help productivity to take a 15 min nap at about 1. eliminates the after lunch hangover
<jussi> diplo: :)
<nigelb> and she doesn't remember any of it in the morning :)
<diplo> I'd love to be able to do that jussi
<diplo> I used to work out and about, and one of the guys I worked with would eat his sandwiches in the van and then put his head to one side and sleep soundly until 45 mins later
<diplo> Fully asleep
<jussi> diplo: Im surprised that businesses dont allow employees to do it, there are strong scientific studies about it
<shauno> I can do that at work, but not at home.  no way I can sleep that easily at home
<nigelb> I can't wake up easily.
<jussi> The National Institute of Mental Health funded a team of doctors, led by Alan Hobson, MD, Robert Stickgold, PhD, and colleagues at Harvard University for a study which showed that a midday snooze reverses information overload.
<nigelb> It's either 3 hours or None.
<diddledan_> nigelb, I'm the same - I can't do "fourty winks"
<diddledan_> I either don't get any sleep or sleep for several hours
<nigelb> diddledan_: ^5
<diddledan_> I'm a hungarian. I think it must be luncheon time
<foobarry> how many pringles = 1 packet of crisps?
<diddledan_> 25
<diddledan_> maybe that's too many, thinking about it
<diddledan_> a packet doesn't usually contain very many
<foobarry> how many in a can?
<foobarry> 95
<foobarry> 6 portions
<foobarry> 15 pringles
<diddledan_> don't be silly. 1portion == 1can
<diddledan_> or vicky verky
<foobarry> i've run out of chocolate and jelly sweets
<BananaMan> heya ;)
<popey> hello
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: NullSweetieException
 * diddledan_ refrains from calling someone "sweetie"
<diddledan_> although, I think I need to recompile to fix that nullsweetieexception too
<diddledan_> I need a sweetieInjection
<MooDoo> ooooooo http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2014/05/the-orange-box-cloud-for-free-man.html
<Myrtti> ih â¥ Chromecast
<Myrtti> Chromecast + iihf2014video.com + 19.90â¬ = Miia watches ice hockey
<Seeker`> diddledan_: don't be silly. 1 portion is far greater than 1 can
<Seeker`> diddledan_: 10 maybe
<diddledan_> the just-over-a-foot-long cans?
<Seeker`> diddledan_: yeah :P
<popey> Just installed Lubuntu for the first time - in a VM - it's rather nippy
<awilkins> I was pleasantly surprised by the pace of standard Trusty on an SSD from a fresh install
<awilkins> Considering whether to reinstall my upgrades to see if they get a boost
<diddledan_> my trusty vm on here (MacBook Pro Retina + SSD) is lightning quick
<popey> I need to move my VMs from encrypted home to unencrypted /
<popey> to speedy them up a bit
<awilkins> We have encrypted root w. Windows
<awilkins> Our org is paranoid about data security because of all the lost government laptops
<diddledan_> my org is tasked with maintaining a governmentish site via some poorly encrypted windows laptops+vpn
<daftykins> xbox one dropped to Â£316 delivered 0o
<diddledan_> daftykins, I read a thingy that explained about the light-bar on the ps4 controller as being for VR purposes
<diddledan_> i.e. when you've got your head shoved up into a helmet
<daftykins> i don't really see the connection?
<diddledan_> something about wanting to know where a user's hands are
<Laney> happy 1400000000
<daftykins> huh?
<popey> \o/
<diddledan_> 1.4billion?
<daftykins> Laney you so crazy
<popey> dammit, missed it
<Laney> i don't make the rules
<diddledan_> o_O
<Laney> it's alright, there's only a little bit over three years until the next one
<daftykins> the next what?
<Laney> the next 00000000
<daftykins> Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> worst. explanation. ever.
<Laney> hahaha sorry it was fun to be a wind up
<Laney> date +%s
<daftykins> i was sort of thinking epoch related
<diddledan_> \o/ for 1.4 billion seconds since an arbitrary point. the problem I have however, is that while it's 1.4billion from that point; from a different point it's 1.3658736458
<diddledan_> (nobody go counting the number of significant figures! I might have a partial second in there for good measure)
<diddledan_> winston churchill was a pretty significant figure, however
<diddledan_> you can count him
<shauno> wot
<diddledan_> shauno, not you
<diddledan_> this looks interesting: http://jarednova.github.io/timber/
<diddledan_> oop for wordpress theming
<shauno> I dunno.  sometimes I feel obligated to remind you that you don't actually make any sense
<diddledan_> sure I do. it's called non-sense
<diddledan_> why doesn't chrome on windows do the fancy font-smoothing thing?
<daftykins> diddledan_: can you do a screenie comparison 0o
<diddledan_> daftykins, once I can find the wretched print-screen key
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> that armageddon chap is trying my patience
<daftykins> <day1> ubuntu's got bad battery life compared to Windows ;_;
<daftykins> <day10> still the same ;_;
<daftykins> =|
<popey> ah those crazy danes https://news.vice.com/article/denmark-just-pulled-the-most-disturbing-election-ad-youll-ever-see
<DJones> Heh, Russia set to reject a USA request to keep keep the ISS in use for an extra 4 years......Erm....The only way the Americans can get up there anyway is using Russian rockets, so there's no problem
<diddledan_> DJones, well there's a problem if they stop sending the rockets while there's still people up there
<DJones> diddledan_: That be a good test of a halo jump
<DJones> Oh and new trousers
<diddledan_> vhalo
<popey> not really, they can get down
<ali1234> http://www.space.com/25849-spacex-lawsuit-ula-rocket-engines.html
<diddledan_> they can?
<popey> there's always an escape pod
<popey> you not watched Gravity ? â»
<diddledan_> no
<daftykins> such a bad film
<popey> meh, I liked it
<popey> yeah, that spacex thing is interesting, watched the senate hearing on it
<daftykins> Sandra Bullock breaks everything (TM)
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> to be fair to sandra, they shouldn't have sent her up there in the first place
<diddledan_> (caveat: sandra is one of my crushes)
<daftykins> i've got a new CD that won't rip =|
 * diddledan_ gets the scissors
<diddledan_> cutting is so much cleaner than ripping
<daftykins> not helping sir
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> since when have I _ever_ helped _anyone_?!
<daftykins> i saw you! once!
<diddledan_> really?
<diddledan_> hmm
<diddledan_> momentary lapse in judgement methinks
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> diddledan_: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Digital-WD40EZRX-Internal-SATA-Caviar-Green-4TB-Hard-Drive-Brand-New/331202354966
<daftykins> seems legit
<diddledan_> china
<diddledan_> I don't trust anything from china
<diddledan_> at least anything on ebay from china
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> oh wow, i didn't even look at the surface before popping it in given it's brand new
<daftykins> it's knackered, getting an amazon replacement \o/
<shauno> heh, you're missing out.  china is great fun on ebay
<diddledan_> daftykins?
<diddledan_> the surface?
<daftykins> music CD i was ripping
<diddledan_> aah
<shauno> heh, I assumed he meant a hdd too
<daftykins> 8)
<diddledan_> shauno, non mac - how do I get windows to respect a mac keyboard layout?
<diddledan_> maybe that should be in a different channel
<diddledan_> I managed with two operating system references to completely miss the one this channel is purportedly about
<daftykins> i think my friend used to run some kind of program to remap
<diddledan_> that's impressifail
<diddledan_> I'm using a mac keyboard at least
<daftykins> although that was XP era
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan_> just plugged into a windows pc
<shauno> I'm using a combination of my own keymap file & autohotkey.  it ... mostly works
<shauno> although win7 really doesn't want to let me remap cmd+L, which worked fine in xp
<diddledan_> windows 8/8.1 probably wouldn't like that either
<shauno> it worked in xp, where cmd+l does the same thing as it does in later versions
<shauno> but now if I try to make it act as ctrl+L, it executes one behaviour, and then the other
<daftykins> heh
<shauno> I have all my deadkeys working though!  which I still haven't managed in ubuntu (xkbd is .. not fit for human consumption)
<diddledan_> why has nobody written a piece of software that, like synergy+ shares a single keyboard and mnouse between multiple systems but also, and here's the bit that nobody has done, allows windows to be drawn on any display from any of the connected systems - e.g. drag safari from my mac desktop to my windows desktop without caring that they're different systems
<daftykins> maybe it'd just look like a mess of sketchy redrawing?
<shauno> that'd be horrible :)
<shauno> you can sort of make windows-windows appear on mac-desktop with rdp, but I'm not sure how you could move it from one to the other without the windows desktop already sharing the windows with itself over rdp
<shauno> and that's the shallow end of the insanity required
<daftykins> doesn't vmware fusion on a mac allow Windows to almost look like it's operating natively?
<shauno> yeah, I believe it piggy-backs rdp for that too
<daftykins> eww
<daftykins> anywho heading out, bbl o/
<shauno> but you can't have half & half for that.  you can't have a windows desktop in vmware and a window running lose - it's one or the other
<diddledan_> in that case then I want to be able to run gfx-accelerated games on a networked display
<diddledan_> see, I use my mac for everything except games, but I want the mac to have all the screens
<ali1234> diddledan_: it's called X windows...
<diddledan_> ali1234: obsolete
<ali1234> yeah, obsoleted by a thing that isn't technically capable of replacing it
<diddledan_> I don't agree with it's obsolescence, but it's still obsolete
<ali1234> you should take up this oversight with the Wayland developers - and also the Mir developers since it doesn't support this either
<Monotoko> I've been working on something like this actually
<diddledan_> ali1234, the problem with doing that is I get the impression that they'll just dismiss it and me with something similar to "we've discussed this, read the archives"
<diddledan_> which isn't an answer at all
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> that's no reason to just give up though
<Monotoko> speaking of bad decisions, is Ubuntu heading for systemd?
<ali1234> it's a contest of wills
<ali1234> who will give up first?
<diddledan_> Monotoko yes
<ali1234> just look at the youtube/g+ thing
<Monotoko> diddledan_ damn
<ali1234> it only took 6 months of people spamming bob and his army for google to reverse their terrible design decision
<MartijnVdS> ?
<ali1234> http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/642/486/64d.jpg
<MartijnVdS> oh that
<MartijnVdS> they reversed it?
<ali1234> yeah
<MartijnVdS> (they didn't, as far as I can see)
<diddledan_> afaik youtube comments are still tied into g+
<ali1234> and vic quit
<ali1234> diddledan_: some channels have the old comments back already
<ali1234> like most things youtube, it doesn't update for everyone at once
<diddledan_> oh
<shauno> wait, the bob spam worked?
<diddledan_> google doesn't know about it
<diddledan_> woah, that's so meta
<ali1234> shauno: apparently
<diddledan_> source?
<diddledan_> reference?
<diddledan_> as I say, google knows nothing about it
<shauno> http://knowyourmeme.com/videos/77340-this-is-bob  is the very first result for "bob's army"
<shauno> seems like a througholy academic source :)
<diddledan_> all I see is a video
<shauno> the battleground is youtube .. what do you expect :D
<mapps> evening
<mapps> question
<mapps> my iphone 5s fully charged goes to 80% in like an hour
<mapps> that cant be right
<diddledan_> have you let it discharge all the way recently?
<diddledan_> if not then that's a plan
<mapps> it dies loads so i guess
<mapps> but i can try again
<Monotoko> mapps, sounds like an app is draining the battery
<Monotoko> it's usually facebook or skype
<mapps> well
<mapps> there's a rarety
<shauno> nah, that's normal for lipo.  it'll take the same amount of time to charge 0-80% as it takes for 80-100%
<mapps> got so drunk i passed out
<mapps> but
<BananaManLinux1> hi ukers :p
<mapps> i placed a bet o some tennis..cant even remember
<mapps> wokeup +550:)
<Monotoko> I woke up -800 the other day
<mapps> :(
<Monotoko> turns out I booked a flight
<mapps> to where
<Monotoko> Shanghai
<mapps> nice
<Monotoko> still not sure why I did it
<mapps> id had an awful day ...lost ~600 on soccer
<mapps> so waking up to +550
<Monotoko> I don't speak a word of mandarin :(
<mapps> was nice
<mapps> gonna close my ac soon
<diddledan_> sleep buying a long-haul flight is impressive
<diddledan_> even shauno hasn't gone that far AFAIK
<Monotoko> drunk-buying... I thought I'd lost it at the casino to begin with
<ali1234> i can't find any reliable sources on this
<Monotoko> turns out I won Â£50 at the casino
<diddledan_> Monotoko, win 50, sink 500 into flight
<diddledan_> Monotoko, that's logical, right?
<mapps> nice
<Monotoko> diddledan_, I think I really wanted to go on holiday :(
<mapps> casino is mug
 * mapps goes to both casinos a lot
<Monotoko> although why I didn't just go to spain like a normal person
<Monotoko> god knows
<mapps> and its full of mugs
<mapps> because its rubbish
<mapps> and chav
<mapps> sit around in the sun drinkng and smoking
<mapps> no ta
<Monotoko> mapps, I usually stick to poker rooms
<mapps> ah ok
<mapps> i stick to the bar :P
<mapps> never really gamble there
<Monotoko> bah, casino bars are expensive
<mapps> bar or smoking area
<mapps> paid 10 quid for some fags last night
<mapps> lol
<Monotoko> my guess is you're from the north?
<mapps> nie
<mapps> and then they wanted 50p extra for a lighter
<mapps> haha
<mapps> not at all..im from the south, why the north?
<shauno> lol, he's nothing to do with us
<Monotoko> just thought I recognised the lingo
<mapps> shauno me?
<mapps> ;[
<diddledan_> if not you, mapps , then me - he's always trying to disown me
<mapps> from SW11 ..moved to GU24 ....
<mapps> now live in ST1;P
<mapps> so i am north ish now Monotoko :)
<mapps> midlands really
<diddledan_> shauno, remember, a tramp is for life not just for doorstops
<Monotoko> I've lived in DN, EX, SW and now in LE
<Monotoko> over the past year :(
<diddledan_> o_O
<diddledan_> are we supposed to know postal code-to-locations these days?
<Monotoko> Doncaster, Exeter, London, Leeds
<diddledan_> SW I know is london
<diddledan_> the others all bets are off
<mapps> gu = guildford
<mapps> st- stoke
<mapps> <Monotoko> I've lived in DN, EX, SW and now in LE
<mapps> <Monotoko> over the past year :(
<mapps> in a year?
<Monotoko> Yeah, I've had a few jobs, packed 'em all in because I wanted to be somewhere else
<Monotoko> now I've been suspended for some silly mistakes as a sysadmin which shouldn't have even been an issue, so I'm stuck in Leeds for now
<diddledan_> :-(
<diddledan_> that sucks
<diddledan_> the suspension I mean
<Monotoko> Aye, they wanted rid of me... I've put up a fight
<Monotoko> so I've been suspended for a month now
<Monotoko> on full pay mind you
<Monotoko> it gets boring after a few weeks
<mapps> dont complain dont explain
<mapps> best way to be
<mapps> :D
<mapps> and also..dont ever accept blame for anything in the workplace
<mapps> deny deny deny
<mapps> because there's always someone above you earning a fortune for doing nothing
 * mapps never admits to anything
<ali1234> what is the best joypad for gaming on linux?
<ali1234> the xbox 360 controller seems like the defacto standard now
<ali1234> should i get the official one, or a clone? or something entirely different?
<popey> ali1234: i went for a genuine usb xbox360 one
<popey> works a treat
<ali1234> that's probably what i'll get
<ali1234> the classic xbox controller served me well, but the slight differences (like no shoulder triggers) are becoming a problem
<ali1234> all games love those shoulder triggers for some reason
<ali1234> not having them is often a game breaker
<popey> my kids keep stealing my xbox360 controller
<ali1234> also the weird way the driver sets up the controls means that many games think you are constantly pressing L/R
<ali1234> which can also be a game breaker
<ali1234> i've got a game that uses that to cycle menus, so when i go into the menu it just whizzes through each page forever
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-14
<MooDoo> morning all
<jussi> MooDoo: morning
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> morning jussi how are you on this fine day?
<jussi> MooDoo: fine day? meh. Im alive, I guess...
<MooDoo> jussi: it's nice and sunny where I am and it's HUMP day so can't grumble
<jussi> can someone just make this day go away? feels like a monday :(
 * DJones blames AlanBell for the crashed chicken transporter on the M62 near Warrington causing 2 hour delays for anybody heading onlong it towards Manchester
<nigelb> hah
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> mornin
<brobostigon> morning
<MartijnVdS> DJones: psh, as if people want to go TO manchester
<MartijnVdS> :P
<nigelb> burrrrrn :D
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Can't disagree with that
<DJones> Just glad I was going in the other direction
<DJones> Hopefully I won't need to go out to out Openshaw depot today
<DJones> If I do, it'll be roast chicken for the next 6 months for dinner
<Myrtti> aaaaaaaa
<Myrtti> there we go, now I've got the song in my head again
<Myrtti> /o\  http://open.spotify.com/track/7IW8D32HseVQHeo8J67BBl
<mapps> HHH
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Third Shift Workers' Day! :-D
<mapps> morning mate
<directhex> protip for BT internet users: http://redirect.svc.networks.btretail.net/webredirect/?d=www.bt.com/appsconsumeraccount/ipSharing.do
<TwistedLucidity> Any way I can tell if a release upgrade is actually running? I have no GUI or terminal output to show that anything is actually happening.
<TwistedLucidity> When I try to start it again, I get a lock warning.
<TwistedLucidity> Trying to go from Kubuntu 13.10 to 14.04
<mapps> not sure
<MartijnVdS> directhex: what's it about?
<MartijnVdS> From the URL + a bit of google.. CGNAT?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, due to IPv4 address space exhaustion, BT have helpfully decided to use carrier grade NAT for domestic customers
<MartijnVdS> ugh
<directhex> the URL is for opt-out.
<BigRedS_> TwistedLucidity: "ps aux | grep dpkg"
<Laney> wowzers I never noticed that terminator can open LP: #XXXX bugs before
<TwistedLucidity> BigRedS_: Ah, tah much. "pgrep dpkg" seems to work too.
<TwistedLucidity> Why I have no indication of progress is a msytery to me.
<TwistedLucidity> Oh well, shall let it trundle along
<BigRedS_> TwistedLucidity: yeah, I tend to distrust just pgrep and always want to know what the actual command was
<BigRedS_> also, the content of the lock file may be a pid, I can't remember with dpkg
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> pip pip
<popey> hows the phablet?
<mapps> hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> popey: the S5? It's nice
<bigcalm> popey: not quite into phablet sizes. Still smaller than the Note
<bigcalm> That said, does make my S3 feel small
<jussi> my s3 died a horrible death...
<jussi> she fell on the tiled floor
<jussi> and broke her face...
<jussi> now I cant see any expression from her, even though her heart still beats. She needs serious surgery to revive her
<popey> i could do with a nexus 4 with a smashes screen
<diplo> I've got my sisters S3 with smashed screen
<diplo> But its about Â£90 to fix myself or Â£140 in the shop
<diplo> :/
<jussi> popey: what will you trade me for mine...? :D
<jussi> its only minorly smashed, a small break in the right lower corner... :D
<Myrtti> protip: get a cover for it
<popey> jussi: a nexus 4?
<Myrtti> I â¥ Ringke Fusion
<jussi> popey: yes
<popey> thats what I have on mine
<popey> but replacing with an orange cover
<jussi> Myrtti: thats why it only has a small break - i have a cover on it
<popey> jussi: you could donate it to me, and I'll use it for the betterment of Ubuntu phone. Thank you!
<popey> i need a phone I can use to run some automated tests
<jussi> popey: my wife would be unhappy with that arrangement. can you provide some other phone to trade? :D
<popey> I have an HTC Hero I'm not using â»
<MartijnVdS> the phone with the chin
<popey> yes
<jussi> *G* sorry... no :P
<popey> Well.
<foobarry> how do i pass an env variable to a ruby script? https://github.com/thorin/redmine_ldap_sync/blob/master/README.md
<foobarry> The tasks recognize three environment variables:
<foobarry> DRY_RUN - Performs a run without changing the database.
<foobarry> cannot see how to do this :S
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: DRY_RUN=1 ./script
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: or
<MartijnVdS> export DRY_RUN=1
<MartijnVdS> ./script
<MartijnVdS> or
<foobarry> oh. easy peasy. thanks
<MartijnVdS> env DRY_RUN=1 ./script
<MartijnVdS> Lots of ways :)
<foobarry> hmm.. that works, but the dry run fails
<foobarry> the real "wet" run does work. weird
<foobarry> sums up my experience of ruby on rails tbh
<mapps> :(
<mapps> just read that kid lost his fight with cancer
<mapps> raised 3.5million
<mapps> but died today (
<MooDoo> yeah how sad
<MooDoo> Stephens story
<MooDoo> he's a legend
<diddledan_> morning
<MooDoo> morning diddledan_
<foobarry> what did he raise money for?
<MooDoo> teenage cancer trust
<MooDoo> http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/stephen-sutton-dies-hospital-family-7118377
<foobarry> what do they do?
<MooDoo> support young teenagers with cancer
<MooDoo> http://www.teenagecancertrust.org/
<foobarry> good effort
<Myrtti> I've donated over 100 pounds this year for Cancer Research
<MooDoo> I'm getting on that way....
<foobarry> i get a bit confused about where the line is drawn between the research done by pharmas and charities
<Myrtti> even have a policy that if anyone wishes to donate to me or a charity because I've helped them, I point them to CRUK
<MooDoo> fogive my ignorances, but pharmas research the cure, charaties deal with the people that have it?
 * MooDoo looks at Myrtti with the aim of giving her a big hug
<foobarry> i dunno. i assume the human side is in the charity, but cancer research UK are massive research org
<MooDoo> foobarry: I don't care, they want money from me to find a cure, they got it.
<foobarry> of course
<Myrtti> foobarry: rare cancers or cancers that can't be diagnosed early enough to be cured aren't targeted by pharma
<foobarry> i just wonder if the pharmas just bank a profit or feed back into the charities
<Myrtti> if 90% of diagnosed kick the bucket within 6 months of diagnosis, there isn't that much incentive for pharma's to do research
<diddledan_> we're allowed to hug, now, MooDoo ?
<diddledan_> I thought there was a strictly hands-off policy
<MooDoo> diddledan_: only if Myrtti gives you permission
<foobarry> i lost my dad to pancreatic cancer last yr. there's not a great survival rate
<diddledan_> maybe it's just me :-p
<MooDoo> my dad was diagnosed with blood cancer two weeks ago
<Myrtti> foobarry: my mum went almost 6 months to the day from diagnosis for bile duct cancer
 * MooDoo sobs
<foobarry> :(
<diddledan_> I need a new mouse
 * foobarry hugs all round
<diddledan_> :-( /me hugs MooDoo
<MooDoo> thanks
<foobarry> feels inappropriate to share that dog video now
<Myrtti> I can't remember much of 2011 - I realised when I was looking at the past results of Eurovision
 * foobarry waits a while
<foobarry> ym job is to provide good IT solutions to research (including medical research). feel a bit bettr about doing good work for those guys instead of my previous life in banks where it just profited the traders
<jussi> to make a user full admin, which groups should I add them to?
<jussi> I intend to delete the main user and want to replace it with this one
<MooDoo> wheel?
<Wobbo>  It runs, but it continuously hang. I've had it before, I do not know why and I do not know how I can fix this. But, Android ADT works fine.
<jussi> MooDoo: more info needed?
<MooDoo> jussi: I'm thinking out loud lol
<jussi> MooDoo: oh, ok :)
<TwistedLucidity> Well the upgrade didn't go too bad. Any fix for Ubuntu insisting I am using a US keyboard, even though every settings says GB?
<MooDoo> jussi: do they just want to be able to do everything? couldn't you just add them to the sudo group so that they can run the sudo command?
<diddledan_> sudo is the correct way
<MooDoo> phew got that one right then :)
<jussi> MooDoo: I dunno, is that enough? the point is that I need to give this PC back to work, and I want to delete the user so all the info disappears
<MooDoo> jussi: if they can sudo they can do anything
<jussi> but there needs to be a replacement user that can log in and do whatever
<jussi> ok
<Myrtti> remember to vote! --> http://www.euvox.eu/
<foobarry> forgot to post my vote
<foobarry> maybe tomorrow
<foobarry> the EU list is ridiculous... animal welfare party plus a load of extreme group
<Myrtti> I was reading about the falsified eu vote ads the other day
<Myrtti> some are trying to mislead by telling people that voting for some party will basically put their vote in the discard pile because they won't get elected anyway, but the EU vote is proportional, not first past the post
<bashrc> so what is euvox?
<bashrc> I would really like to vote for policies, not parties
<shauno> there's a pretty decent tradition of ridiculous parties.  monster raving loonies comes to mind.  we apparently have a dog running here locally?
<Myrtti> bashrc: you answer the questionnaire and it tells you which party is closest to what you've answered
<Myrtti> I'm a bit shocked that it gave me LibDem as the closest UK match instead of something I was expecting
<diddledan_> it gave me libdem too
<Myrtti> but I'm not voting in the UK election yet so that's fine, I'm spared of making a decision
<bashrc> I don't think I would vote libdem, but that's maybe a topic for a different channel
<shauno> weird questionaire.  it seems to spend the entire second half asking me what party?
<jussi> I did it, got Vihrea :)
<jussi> even though I cant vote...
<Myrtti> ah, the way the proportional vote in EU UK vote is calculated is the same as in Finland
<Myrtti> I'm confused by the lack of possibility of voting for a candidate though
<Myrtti> but oh well
<shauno> I'm not entirely convinced it actually came up with an answer for me; http://i.imgur.com/ksg6wC2.png
<jussi> Myrtti: Im just confused.
<DJones> Heh, Mine came out with Lib Dem, Conservative & Labour all virtually the same, with UKIP as a negative
<Myrtti> I should probably do the same questionnaire for the UK vote...
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Thanks for that. Apparently I am just slightly to the right to Attila the Hun. :-P
<jussi> DJones: you really are confused.... :P
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: That's not a bad idea. I (sort of) agree with the Greens, but a few of their policies are IMnsHO backwards
<TwistedLucidity> AFAICT, they're the least bad candidate. :-S
<DJones> jussi: Maybe not that confused, just don't trust any of the parties
<bashrc> if there is a Pirate Party candidate I'll probably vote for them
<DJones> I wonder whether a vote for UKIP would be better than ending up with a Nick Griffin as MEP as we've got now
<bashrc> good grief
<TwistedLucidity> I'll start an "Honesty Party". Policies #1: We're in it for own benefit.  #2 Maximise expenses claims and free trips. #3 Err...that's all.
<diddledan_> this is me: http://imgur.com/mjZU46d
<diddledan_> I'm a leftie I guess
<TwistedLucidity> COMMUNIST!
<DJones> I bet the back end to that questionnaire is going into some poll somewhere on peoples expected voting habits
<diddledan_> lol
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan_: Put the tree-huggers at the top, shuffle LibDem and Labour down...mine had almost the same %s
<diddledan_> lol @ treehuggers
<shauno> hopefully they're using it to weed out the ukip voters so they can be deported appropriately
<bashrc> I am a computationalist
<TwistedLucidity> If they weren't anti-nuke and anti-rail, I could vote from them with a clear conscience.
<diddledan_> I'm completely glad that ukip scored badly. I don't want to associate with racists
<foobarry> UKIP didn't start as racists
<bashrc> did they start as idiots?
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan_: UKIP have *nothing* on some of the moon-unit leaflets I've been getting through the door
<foobarry> they just started as an anti EU version of the tories
<foobarry> even BNP used to say "freedom of movement in EU is fine"
<bashrc> actually my certificate unit name is "Moon Unit"
<diddledan_> foobarry, now they're isolationist and xenophobic, which IMO equates to racism
<shauno> if I can just skip straight ahead to the Godlwin line, you ever wonder how the national socialists were facists rather than socialists?  they didn't start out that way either.
<foobarry> diddledan_: yes, they are now
<TwistedLucidity> And in all faireness too them, the EU is a corrupt cesspool (bit like Westminster really). I like the idea of a united Europe, but some of the EU shenannigans makes me a sad puppy.
<foobarry> and many BNP types fill their ranks
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: hence the popular vote from lots of old people
<foobarry> at the last bunch of elections
<foobarry> but UKIP are now spouting lots of bnp rhetoric
<foobarry> and are saying nasty things
<diddledan_> my main problem with europe is that the court of human rights is an autonomous unit with no oversight
<diddledan_> like the NSA
<TwistedLucidity> One of the candidates here was ejected for UKIP for being *too* racist!
<bashrc> X all the Ys!
<foobarry> same here
<foobarry> that henwood bloke
<foobarry> said bad things about lenny henry
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan_: They can always change the laws that the ECHR enforces....
<diddledan_> TwistedLucidity true
<bashrc> I think Henry will have the last laugh
<TwistedLucidity> OFF WITH HIS HEAD!
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, wrong Henry....
<diddledan_> bashrc, he's a comedian, of course he's going to have the last laugh :-p
<bashrc> shouldn't that be "her"?
<foobarry> he hasn't been funny since i was a child
<TwistedLucidity> I think the EU is a scapegoat for changes the politicos in the UK want to ram through regardless of any opposition (e.g. Routemasters, driving test centres etc)
<bashrc> driving test centres?
<TwistedLucidity> Yup
<TwistedLucidity> The UK claimed that because the EU mandated tests at 50km/h (31m/h) that they couldn't be done on roads and millions now needed to be spent on new ones with test areas
<TwistedLucidity> This resulted in many old ones being closed, which meant long trips for some
<TwistedLucidity> Of course the projects over ran and weren't ready on time...a total shambles.
<bashrc> test areas.  sounds cool
<Myrtti> wat
<TwistedLucidity> Turns out, the UK could simply have varied the speed to 48km/h (30m/h) but chose not to
<bashrc> so it was an argument over 2km/h ?
<TwistedLucidity> So the UK claimed, although it never was
<bashrc> those kinds of things aren't very important.  it would be better if they argued about something more exciting
<TwistedLucidity> Simialr thing happened in London when the ditch Routemasters for bendies. "Oh the EU is forcing us too..." Lies.
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: That's the point, there was no argument. The UK made it up
<bashrc> aha
<bashrc> still, the test centres could have been cool
<TwistedLucidity> They exist
<bashrc> do they have bits that you can swerve around?
<TwistedLucidity> That's part of the test, yes
<bashrc> oh that sounds glorious
<TwistedLucidity> I'd have to go look up all the bits again.
<Myrtti> it's super confusing that there's a little kid with my name in the neighbourhood
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: It's not a skid pan
<TwistedLucidity> That's a thing I would love to have a go on
<Myrtti> Finnish driving lessons have to include the skidding part
<TwistedLucidity> Understandably
<TwistedLucidity> I am told the UK license is much harder these days. Certainly my bike test was harder than my car test (about 5 years apart)
<foobarry> i believe all the stories now that i have worked in public sector
<foobarry> i didn't see how they could be true
<foobarry> now i wonder how anything gets done
<foobarry> who uses redmine? MooDoo ?
<diddledan_> I try to know as little about redmine as I can get away with to actually work it
<foobarry> just spent 3 days solidly working on a new redmine server, all bells and whistles
<diddledan_> our install is seriously outdated tho
<foobarry> been quite a challenge tweaking it, getting ldap -> sync, etc
<foobarry> findign correct plugins for other tweaks
<foobarry> have one small issue remaining
<foobarry> a stndard install would take me ~ 1hr
<foobarry> but this has been a beast
<awilkins> foobarry, I use / admin Redmine
<awilkins> foobarry, My install wiki page takes about 20 minutes
<awilkins> We have LDAP and Mylyn integration plus the "Add managers to P1 tickets as watchers" plugin I wrote.
<awilkins> Ondrej Sury's PPAs help immensely
<foobarry> awilkins: what ppas?
<awilkins> foobarry, https://launchpad.net/~ondrej/+archive/redmine
<foobarry> also, my particular setup requires creating of tickets from anon users, which i have done, but
<foobarry> the anon users don't get sent the emails
<awilkins> He used to support back to precise, but that seems to have gone
<awilkins> Oh, goody, the packages are still there
<foobarry> so i use the redminecrm plugin, and i can send a note to the anon user but i still can't get them added as a watcher by default which is what i want, because i want techies to reply via email to tickets and the anon user gest the mail
<awilkins> Oh, criminey, no they are not
<foobarry> i'm on 14.04
<awilkins> foobarry, Yeah, I think we will be too soon at this rate :-)
<foobarry> any ideas about my issue?
<awilkins> Not used that plugin.. and we don't allow anonymous access.
<foobarry> sounds similar to your plugin, was it a lot of work?
<awilkins> It's about 20 lines of Ruby?
<foobarry> i sync my ldap users but new-not-yet added potential users need to converse via email tickets
<awilkins> foobarry, https://github.com/awilkins/redmine_priority_mail_watcher
 * foobarry looks
<foobarry> which version does this support? could be handy for us
<awilkins> Supports ermmmmm 2.x up to 2.4.3 at least
<awilkins> And as mentioned in the comments, it's rubbish
<awilkins> The config is "edit the source code"
<foobarry> i see.
<foobarry> do u change the UI theme at all?
<awilkins> And I lied, it's about 50 lines of Ruby
<foobarry> wonder if default is best
<awilkins> lib/*/hooks.rb
<foobarry> i just had a lok
<foobarry> redmine is so awesome yet always something a little missing
<foobarry> for your needs
<awilkins> Yeah. And I kinda wish it was written in Python
<foobarry> i feel so shonky doing this ruby rake stuff
<awilkins> Ruby is blech
<foobarry> feel outta my depth
<diddledan_> ruby scares me
<diddledan_> I think it's because it's so completely different to anything I've used before
<awilkins> I sat down with a Ruby on Rails book and felt a bit better afterwards
<awilkins> it's just sort of framework-by-convention
<foobarry> i should do that, which boko?
<foobarry> book?
<awilkins> Can't remember, it was at my local hackerspace in manchester...
<awilkins> I should have borrowed it
<awilkins> There's the Ruby Koans too
<awilkins> Helps with the syntax
<awilkins> It's just a bunch of broken unit tests and you learn Ruby by fixing them
<foobarry> i just get confused about user permissions
<foobarry> who can run rake etc
<foobarry> who *should* run it too
<awilkins> I think that's just about who has the access rights to the folder
<shauno> I feel we should offer hugs.
<shauno> hah, sorry, I was scrolled up to "I use / admin redmine".  whoops
<awilkins> Redmine Survivors Network
<foobarry> i need chocolate
<foobarry> found out my wife has been chomping my chocolate
<foobarry> she ate 2 of my flake bars yesterday, 1 day after finding out i had a stash
<shauno> I fear you didn't read the fineprint on the vows.  if you're married, the chocolate is no longer yours
<foobarry> thats why i have secret stashes
<foobarry> but i popped one on my strawberry dairy ice cream and her eyes lit up
<foobarry> should have munched it secretly int he kitchen
<awilkins> The world here is too hot
<awilkins> Just in this office I suspect
<awilkins> We lease it so they have no incentive to make us comfortable
<Myrtti> should I go and get more laundry to wash? done three loads already today...
<diddledan_> Myrtti, you're doing well then
<diddledan_> I need to do some, too
<Myrtti> well it's a pretty day and we don't have a dryer
<Myrtti> so laundry day it is
<daftykins> so you guys know Specsavers?
<daftykins> i was at the owner's house today O_O
<daftykins> anywho looked at a clients system today...
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/58eBzFF.png
<daftykins> over 2 million bad sectors on an 80GB HDD, seems legit
<funkyHat> Assessment: OK :D
<DJones> 80Gb HDD, how old is it
<daftykins> well it came in a dodgy deal PC, running all kinds of questionable software
<daftykins> as the SMART info there reads, it's been powered on for 2 years at least
<daftykins> funkyHat: yeah i love that bit, apparently everything's fine if you ignore 2 million sectors have gone 8D
<daftykins> then the second disk in the system is a 1TB WD... checking its' warranty i learn that it was pulled from a WD My Book Essentials unit, so likely an external HDD enclosure - and was out of warranty back in Jan 2012
<daftykins> \o/
<DJones> And thats running Specsavers :) ?
<daftykins> lol no totally unrelated
<DJones> Don't answer that, client confidentiality etc
<daftykins> the system was at a building firm who are working on the owners place
<daftykins> why does tzdata always get these updates 0o
<daftykins> ok i have to restart my host for patch tuesday ho-hum ;_;
<daftykins> talking of knackered HDDs, now zeroing my 2TB one that went wonky :O!
<daftykins> i just worked out with some basic maths that this 80GB HDD that has 2 million bad sectors... has 8.5GB bad space :)
<shauno> tzdata gets updates because timezones are crazy.  eg, http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/dst_news_egypt05.html  (Egypt announced on may 8th that it's starting DST on may 15th.  changing your timezone with 1 week warning requires out-of-cycle updates)
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> interesting
<daftykins> ty sir
<shauno> its' nice to think of it the other way around - it's impressive that given one week warning, your machine is already all set.  yaknow, just in case you go to egypt tomorrow
<daftykins> lmao
<shauno> seriously :)  all the XP machines are going to get it wrong
<daftykins> i was disappointed to see that XP still gets the Malicious Software Removal Tool each month
<shauno> I'm disappointed that "malicious software removal" doesn't remove XP
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> now now
<daftykins> i'm doing these Western Digital warranty extension card things
<daftykins> they've got the silver scratchcard style strips with the code under...
<daftykins> only scratching with a coin also scratches off the code underneath
<shauno> so you didn't win anything :(
<daftykins> nah :(
<daftykins> crikey, there we go 6 scratched and codes entered
<daftykins> wewp wewp
<daftykins> Â£18 to extend 6 disks to 4 year warranty from 3
<shauno> including shipping?
<daftykins> alas no :(
<daftykins> Â£4.95 shipping from ebuyer
<daftykins> in fact good call, have to ask for the VAT back now
<daftykins> guys, 14.04 desktop - should single user mode by submitting the extra kernel boot parameter of 'single' work or not?
<shauno> it does on server.  I know it's not an answer, but it's an awkward silence
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ty sir
<daftykins> it fudges up on desktop, all you get is a blinking cursor and no TTYs
<daftykins> (tested in a VM)
<SuperEngineer> Steam's todo list [no completed : 1/ have major foul up 2/ keep absolutely silent about it 3/ treat customers [wage-payers] as if they do'nt exist.  Job complete.
<SuperEngineer> sub no/now
<daftykins> Linux edition? :)
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: yup, all versions, & it is major. [sorry for late reply - listening to UUPC]
<shauno> bah, humblebundle sending emails titled "ACTION REQUIRED" is not cool, at all.  'action required' means I've done something wrong, something's broke, or I owe you money.  It does not mean you want me to sign up for moar lists
<shauno> man, there is nothing more annoying than trying to convince people that isps, harddrives, etc don't use kilo=1000 just to trick you
<diddledan_> shauno, it's all a scam, though, isn't it?
<shauno> one of these days, I will hunt you down
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-15
<MooDoo> hello all
<mapp> hey MooDoo
<mapp> fell asleep at genting:((
<MooDoo> :*(
<mapp> went for a smoke
<mapp> then came back and yea fell asleep
<mapp> paying 8.60 a pac
<Myrtti> I've slept really poorly for the past few weeks so pardon my rant
<mapp> we allmdo
<mapp> :D
<Myrtti> but why can't I easily find a multivitamin that doesn't have vitamin K in it? Don't people understand that your body in general makes it itself? GGGGGRRRRRRR
<MooDoo> It's my kids keeping me awake :S
<MooDoo> mapp: 8 quid a pack of smokes?  wow is that how much it is nowadats?
<mapp> and theres maps
<mapp> yea
<MooDoo> wow
<mapp> 8.50 for 20 malboros
<mapp> i remember when it was like4quid a pack
<MartijnVdS> inflation
<mapp> yep
<MartijnVdS> also, trying to get people to quit for financial reasons
<mapp> i paid like 8euros in holland
<MooDoo> glad I don't smoke, and I only drink when people buy me beer for fixing their computer :)
<mapp> MartijnVdS once a smoker always a smoker
<mapp> MooDoo half wish i didnt smoke
<MartijnVdS> mapp: not my dad
<MooDoo> mapp: give up?
<MooDoo> easier said that done i know
<mapp> 10quid/day
<MartijnVdS> My dad decided one day that he'd quit smoking.. hasn't smoked since
<mapp> ripoff
<mapp> nice
<mapp> :)
<mapp> my dad quit smoking 30years back
<mapp> just wish we couldve stopped my mum
<mapp> but thats life
<Myrtti> hu
<Myrtti> Dixons and Carphone Warehouse announce Â£3.8bn merger
<SuperMatt> I'm not surprised
<SuperMatt> though I am still surprised that dixons continues to call itself curry's digital
<SuperMatt> the dixons name holds more weight, imo
<SuperMatt> also, carphone warehouse needs to change its name
<SuperMatt> dixons mobile, maybe?
<MooDoo> week or so ago that was... dixons carphone it's going to be called
<TwistedLucidity> Morning
<MooDoo> morning
<TwistedLucidity> Anyone know how to disable the keyboard indicator gubbins? (Keeps starting on login and keeps getting the wrong keyboard)
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: really? that sucks
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: yes
<mapp> nie
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate Chip Day! :-D
<mapp> souf london
<mapp> is where its at eh
<mapp> :D
 * SuperMatt highfives mapp 
<SuperMatt> although I'm coming at your right now from west london
<SuperMatt> stupid commute
 * mapp highfives SuperMatt
<mapp> west london
<mapp> pffffft
<SuperMatt> well, it's where my super awesome job is
<mapp> south london for life
<mapp> :P
<SuperMatt> weeeeellll... when you're working for rackspace, you just deal with west london
<mapp> you kow e&c?
<SuperMatt> Know it? I practically live a 5 minute bus ride from it!
<mapp> thats where its all about
<mapp> yea right
<SuperMatt> I'm down by Burgess Park
<mapp> elephant and castle i mean btw
<mapp> guess no
<mapp> i live near that mess that is tbe strata
<SuperMatt> oh, fun
<mapp> not really but thats life
<mapp> you near there SuperMatt?
<SuperMatt> mapp: like I said, down by burgess park, look it up :)
<mapp> i shall
<mapp> )
<mapp> :)
<mapp> oh
<mapp> so youre near me
<mapp> :D
<SuperMatt> wh00p
<mapp> e&c is the best
<mapp> :)
<mapp> im just off gaunt street
<mapp> like 2mins from there
<SuperMatt> ah, cool
<SuperMatt> near mistry of sound, I see
<mapp> yea
<SuperMatt> That is some place I would rather never go ;)
<mapp> hahahahaha
<mapp> mos is a joke
<mapp> ive only been 3x
<MooDoo> want one - http://aerofex.com/
<SuperMatt> I've never been
<mapp> but its pretencious
<mapp> u know fabric?
<mapp> love it there
<mapp> used to love turnmills
<mapp> aka gurnmills
<SuperMatt> nope, I'm not in to clubs
<SuperMatt> never was, but I'm too old for that now anyway
<mapp> oh no...
<mapp> im too old too;p
<mapp> fabric is ace
<mapp> in faringdon
<bashrc> morning
<mapp> morning bashrc
<davmor2> MooDoo: you want the moon on a stick
<davmor2> MooDoo: you do want an oragnce box though don't you :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: I so want an orange box
<MooDoo> although  have been looking into openstack swift :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> davmor2: can you get me one?
<MooDoo> davmor2: ;)
<shauno> I kinda want to see someone playing tf2 on the orange box.  just because.
<SuperMatt> hurrr]#
<SuperMatt> it shold at least come with the steam dedicated server binaries installed ;)
<SuperMatt> man, my typing sucks right now
<awilkins> I'd love an Orange Box
<awilkins> Have a raffle!
<Wobbo> Where can i find where java, "Andoid ADT" settings saved? Everytime i reinstall java and/or Android ADT some setting are still there. I removed everything whith "android" incl. ".android" ".java" all eclips... etc. I reboot but stull all settings are stil there. Oh i removed all java using purge. Help
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: ~/.config ?
<Wobbo> delete it?
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jolla-Sim-Free-Smartphone-16GB/dp/B00HJA7A3Y/
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: no, look in there
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: it should contain all configuration for your user account
<dwatkins> morning folks
<brobostigon> moeninf dwatkins
<Wobbo> I can not find anything there, nothing like "java", "android" or "ADT". Only "openoffice".
<MartijnVdS> Wobbo: all Android stuff is in ~/.android for me -- maybe check /root/.android if you started adb as root?
<MartijnVdS> ah.. ADT is the Eclipse plugin. Check in Eclipse plugin directories.
<awilkins> Myrtti, That Sailfish phone is cool, but pricey compared to a 16GB Nexus series phone
<hoover> Hi all
<Myrtti> awilkins: yup
<awilkins> That Chinese superduperphone also seems an attractive buy even at the 64GB mark
<Laney> grr
<Laney> someone invent a bee / fly flicking device
<Laney> so that I can push them out of the window without having to get up
<shauno> these are great fun :) http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003GU23EW
<brobostigon> why not invent a miniture UAV for the purpose, in house/room usage, :)
<brobostigon> with a huge james bond laser on it, to buzz the bugs.
<shauno> then you'd have to out-fly a fly, rather than just applying disproportionate force
<brobostigon> no, it flies itself, detects the flies and kills them, without user intervention.
<Laney> I don't want killing :(
<awilkins> No need for lasers
<awilkins> Just have a turbine intake that sucks them into a jar
<awilkins> Then it flies outside and releases them
<awilkins> Or mulches them into a biogas digester to power itself
<awilkins> Like the slug-killing robot that digested the slugs in a fuel cell
<brobostigon> that would work,
<shauno> just stop dusting.  spiders will take care of the rest :)
<awilkins> Yeah, I just leave spiders alone because they don't generally annoy me
<awilkins> Except the one that lives under the fireplace
<awilkins> Who is big and brown and scuttles. Fast.
<shauno> I've tried to draw a truce - I chase them out the bedroom, but let them have behind the TV
<shauno> it seems to work okay for Israel, so why not
<davmor2> Morning all you funky people
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 :) how are you this fine day?
<jussi> davmor2: careful... you honestly think that we are funky? that anyone here except funkyHat is funky? :D
 * jussi hugs davmor2 
<jussi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdV-yhsVdCw
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<jussi> morning bigcalm
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm feeling pretty good today to be honest, Back is killing too much standing at the funeral yesterday but today pretty happy
<robotninja> 'lo all :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: good to hear it mate.  You'll feel even better when you get me one of the orange boxes :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: popey was ordering multiple ones yesterday I'm sure you can bung you one :)
<popey> hmm?
<popey> I was ordering orange leather backs for my nexus 4 â»
<popey> somewhat cheaper
<davmor2> MooDoo: there is an article on building your own minus the pretty orange case
<popey> yeah
<davmor2> popey: Yeah yeah yeah ;)  You say that now people might believe you were buying them :D
<awilkins> popey, Does that imply dismantling the case and swapping the back out?
<popey> no, stick on back, hairdryer to bond
<awilkins> popey, Intruiging
<awilkins> popey, Most of the reason I have a bumper case on my N4 is because the plastic back means it slips off smooth surfaces and gets dinged
<Dave2> s/plastic/glass/
<popey> http://curebit.com/x/YsY9UF is what I bought
<popey> awilkins: exactly why I bought ^^ that
<popey> and apparently it even can charge through that using the induction charger
<awilkins> If it didn't slip I could take the case off and enjoy it's slick slimness more
<popey> ditto
<popey> i only have a case on my two nexus 4's because I'm scared of dinging them
<awilkins> Also thought about doing the CPU heatsink mod
<awilkins> But loathe to take it to bits
<davmor2> popey: oh I thought it was cause it cost you money to de-ding them so you bought the case to keep them de-dinged
<popey> same thing
<Myrtti> I got some scrapping paper from the garden centre on the weekend, so now I've got almost unlimited amount of pretty cases because I can put the scrapping paper into my Ringke Fusion
<Myrtti> Hobbycraft had some nice scrapping paper ... let me find a link
<Myrtti> http://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/first-edition-man-made-premium-paper-pad-12-x-12-assorted/590136-1000
<Myrtti> although they do have 6x6 too
<Myrtti> http://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/first-edition-man-made-premium-paper-pad-6-x-6-assorted/590137-1000
<MooDoo> anyone use chromecast?  just got myself one today
<Myrtti> several
<Myrtti> two in UK, two in Finland
<Myrtti> they're brilliant
<MooDoo> good thanks Myrtti
<Myrtti> the only thing that there's to complain is that depending on what you connect them to they hijack the device
<Myrtti> ie. if we'd hook it to our AVR, it would automatically start with Chromecast on rather than what was last used
<MartijnVdS> oh it uses "Control for HDMI" or CEC
 * awilkins has only one device with an HDMI port and that isn't getting Chromcasted
<MartijnVdS> disable that on the other devices (and use a Logitech Harmony to get everything on/off in the right order)
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: the remote the AVR came with is better than Harmony :-|
<MartijnVdS> unpossible
<MartijnVdS> I've tried CEC (with the auto on/off), but that doesn't work for me
<MartijnVdS> Turning on the receiver/amplifier turned on the TV.. even if I just wanted to play a CD
<MartijnVdS> turning off the TV also turned off the amp
<Myrtti> I wish I weren't so tired, I might even understand what you're saying
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: with CEC on: turn on amp -> TV turns on (even if I want the amp for CDs)
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: without CEC on: turn on amp -> only amp turns on
 * Myrtti blinks slowly
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Electronics_Control#CEC
<Myrtti> brÃ¤blÃ¤blÃ¤blbÃ¤Ã¤Ã¤
 * Myrtti bookmaksr for later
<awilkins> Nearest experience I've had is the wire in the SCART connector that changes the channel when you turn on the DVD player...
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yes.. and it bothered me back then too :)
<awilkins> DO DO DO, come on and do the conga
<awilkins> Sorry
<MartijnVdS> Friday is *tomorrow*, awilkins :P
<awilkins> My shiny new big nerdy joystick gets delivered tomorrow
<awilkins> I can pew pew some spaceships
<Seeker`> awilkins: in what game?
<awilkins> Well, I'm looking forward to both Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous
<awilkins> Can play the single player build of Elite : D a bit
<awilkins> Multiplayer beta of Star Citizen is supposed to be out next week
<awilkins> Elite D multiplayer beta out end of month
<dwatkins> :D awilkins
<awilkins> Until then I'm tempted to just get both i-War games on GOG for ten bucks and play the heck out of them... again.
<awilkins> Or my X-Wing / Tie Fighter collectors editions
<awilkins> Or Freescape 2 or basically anything involving space combat pew-pewing
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: BSG:Diaspora
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Is that a Freespace total conversion?
<awilkins> Aha, yes it is
<TwistedLucidity> It's short, but good fun and would be great on a decent games rig
<awilkins> Also sounds good fun
<awilkins> My rig can probably do Freespace 2 engine Great Justice
<TwistedLucidity> Helps to like the BSG reboot (which ended at season 4....there was no season 5. It never happened!)
<TwistedLucidity> Just like Star Was 1-3 do not exist....
<dwatkins> awilkins: Planetary Annihilation is Â£20 on the humble bundle store today
<dwatkins> the latest bundle looks pretty neat, too
<TwistedLucidity> dwatkins: Does it have Linux support?
<TwistedLucidity> 2 out of 3 it seems
<dwatkins> TwistedLucidity: yep - http://store.steampowered.com/app/233250/
<TwistedLucidity> dwatkins: Yeah, I initially assumed that because I couldn't see a penguin it was Windows-only.
<TwistedLucidity> And sorry, I was talking about the Humble Bundle
<dwatkins> ah sorry, context confusion
<diddledan_> morning
<MooDoo> howdy diddledan_
<diddledan_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tGievXbsmVw
<diddledan_> gotta love weebl
<shauno> random.  someone just came up to me at work with an ubuntu iso on a usb stick, and asked if I'd ever heard of it & could figure out how to boot it
<awilkins> "Sounds like TERRORIST software to me."
<awilkins> "You ain't no TERRORIST, are you, pal?"
<shauno> eh.  he's from the north.  I try not to make that joke because I don't want to know the answer
<diddledan_> shauno, you mean he "copied the iso to the usb thingy" rather than imaging the iso to the usb thingy?
<awilkins> I also wondered the same
<shauno> yes.  he put the iso on the usb stick.  hence the question :)
<shauno> I pointed him to unetbootin and told him I don't do PCs :)
<bashrc> I thought that hte definition was so broad that everyone is a terrorist now
<awilkins> I find a good way to make a bootable USB is to have a bootable USB to use the bootable USB program
<diddledan_> awilkins, that's so meta
<bashrc> terrorising the interwebs with yer bootable USB
<diddledan_> awilkins, catch 22 and all that jazz
<awilkins> Since our work laptops are so locked down we can't write to removable devices, this is in fact the only way to do it with work laptop
<diddledan_> I like that the work laptop doesn't prevent you from booting random usbs tho
<awilkins> The disk is encrypted with something proprietary so you can't really interfere with it
<diddledan_> oh :-(
<awilkins> Although I have accidentally blatted it's bootloader on occasion....
<diddledan_> \o/
<awilkins> .... the installer now very carefully prompts you for which disk it puts the bootloader on as a result.. :-)
<shauno> well he seems to be getting somewhere.  he went quiet for 10 minutes, and came back with "what's the super key?"
<diddledan_> hehe, love that linux renames the windows key
<awilkins> That's because the new builds splat the shortcut thing into your face until you press super
<awilkins> Which is a problem on my machine at home because it has an old-style Model M
<awilkins> Still not found out how to remap capslock to another super on Trusty
<shauno> I'm just entertainined because I live on the internet.  I don't get to observe 'noobs' in their natural habitat very often
<awilkins> My upgraded boxes still have the setting in place but my fresh install doesn't and GNOME in their infinite wisdom have removed the panel that sets it
<awilkins> I think that kind of attitude is rather dunderheaded, TBH
<awilkins> On Windows : the answer may be obscure, if the feature is supported, but there is a panel to set it
<awilkins> In GNOME : "What do you mean, it supports that feature, but they took out the GUI panel that lets you control it and I *might* be able to set it if I install this other thing....?"
<bashrc> can you get ubuntu keys for model M's?
<awilkins> bashrc, It has no keyswitch for it
<bashrc> to replace the windoze keycap
<awilkins> http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=24622.0
<awilkins> I've seen custom super keycaps but I don't know about for Model Ms
<awilkins> Don't know if the Unicomp ones even support removable caps
<bashrc> yes they do
<shauno> I didn't think the model M had a windows key?
<awilkins> Old ones don't
<bashrc> the originals wouldn't have, but they're still made by Unicomp
<awilkins> Unicomp make "new" ones
<bashrc> with windows keys
<awilkins> They use buckling-spring switches liek the old ones
<awilkins> But are not as heavy, have USB plugs, etc
<shauno> ah, gotcha
<awilkins> I have one made in Scotland. From girders.
<bashrc> I don't think there's much difference in weight.  They still have the metal backplate
<awilkins> Still beat-your-boss-to-death and keep-on-coding capable?
<awilkins> I use a Cherry at work
<awilkins> It's marginally quieter
<awilkins> Still has clickity switches though
<awilkins> People generally know I'm on a conference call from home when they hear the sound of something like an M60 in the background
<bashrc> terrorist target practice?
<awilkins> Vim
<awilkins> So, yeah.
<bashrc> :)
<shauno> I gotta admit I never got the attraction there. not my cuppa tea
<bashrc> Vim or model Ms?
 * awilkins is intensely fond of both
 * bashrc is an Emacs user
<awilkins> Emacs is of course the editor of people who like running one operating system inside another. And I don't mean in a VM.
<diddledan_> I can do drive-by use of vim but haven't scratched the surface of it's capability
<diddledan_> I tend to stick to nano
<diddledan_> or a gui
<awilkins> I feel like that regardless of how much I use Vim but nano irks me
<shauno> I have an irrational hatred of nano :/
<awilkins> And I tend to prefer GUI editors that have a Vim-ish keybinding
<awilkins> Like Komodo Edit. Or Eclipse with a Vim plugin.
<bashrc> org-mode is hard to beat
<awilkins> Yeah, I like the sound of it
<awilkins> I think I even installed Emacs to try it
<shauno> I can't believe the hurd guys still haven't finished emacs' kernel yet
<awilkins> And tried to find a Vim plugin for it
<bashrc> I think there is a vim mode for Emacs.  have never used it though
<bashrc> generally if you can htink of it then there's a mode for it
<awilkins> Yup. You don't see people writing Emacs mode for other editors, but you do see Vim ones :P
<shauno> I had an icq client than ran in emacs, way back in the dark ages
<awilkins> Probably because there is no Emacs mode, it's all *you* mode in Emacs
<bashrc> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/VimMode
<awilkins> I tried to use Microemacs when I had an Amiga. It made my brain hurt.
<shauno> hah, I still use memacs.  the trick is to ignore that it's trying to be emacs, and just mouse the menu
<bashrc> I think Linus used microEmacs for a long time
<awilkins> Vim makes my brain hurt also. But not my fingers.
<awilkins> Linus : "emacs ..  is the tool of the devil"
<awilkins> (quote lacking a little context...)
<bashrc> :)
<awilkins> He's saying that Full Fat Emacs is the tool of the devil, but he uses a shiny version of microemacs that has UTF-8 support so that's OK
<bashrc> http://git.kernel.org/cgit/editors/uemacs/uemacs.git
<awilkins> Oh wow... Vim... runs on Chrome : https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/vim/dhhoacdlegcbdglbfnhgnlchpkdlofkb
<awilkins> Ah, but no storage and no running external tools
<awilkins> So basically almost pointless
<bashrc> wait.  you can run emacs-mode from within vim-mode from within Emacs?
<awilkins> Is there an emacs-mode for Vim?
<bashrc> I winder if that also supports vim-mode
<shauno> interesting - I never even thought of running vim on the amiga, but apparently it exists
<awilkins> Yup
<awilkins> Because it's so nice and light you can run it on old antiquated buckets
<shauno> buckets?!
<bashrc> or dead badgers
<awilkins> Amiga only got MicroEMACS though (was included with machine)
<awilkins> I had an Amiga 500
<awilkins> It got to the point where it would only work if you directed a hairdryer at a particular spot on the circuit board
<shauno> my 1200 is sat at home paused half way through a game.  sometimes I wish it made noise so I'd remember to turn it off
<bashrc> you probably didn't recite the correct incantation
<awilkins> That was one thing about the computers of yesteryear... no thermal problems
<awilkins> That Ubuntu Orange Box thing is all passive cooling apart from one case fan
<awilkins> Might try and get my boss to shell out for one
<bashrc> I have no thermal problems with the Cubieboard.  It runs almost cold
<awilkins> The problem is then once we've created awesome cloudiness is getting it deployed to our server infrastructure
<awilkins> Because our IT department would look at a Linux VM and go "Nuh?"
<shauno> we have the opposite problem atm.  someone keeps getting excited about AWS, and we're struggling to stop them from doing something silly
<bashrc> airraid warning system?
<shauno> amazon's cloud wotsit
<bashrc> oh
<bashrc> surely the amazon cloud is only for businesses who want to have all of their data exfiltrated
 * bashrc noticed the "economic" section of No Place to Hide
<diddledan_> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solar-roadways
 * diddledan_ wanders off to find chocolate
<bashrc> heard of that idea before.  It sounds good
<awilkins> Yeah, if only they could produce costings
<awilkins> But, iterative product design
<awilkins> I paid Â£2700 to repave my drive
<awilkins> If it cost Â£5000 to repave my drive with those solar hextiles, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
<bashrc> the surface area of all roads and pavements must be massive
<bashrc> if a tile lasted for a decade then it would probably pay for itself in electricity
<shauno> unless you live in ireland.  then you'd just be day yoke with the blue driveway.
<shauno> *dat
<funkyHat> jussi: â¢D
<MartijnVdS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOd3lwluQIw
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3ag8kdpcqyu7upj/AADDinSwK1S6_i33drXdJl5Ca
<daftykins> some snaps of the fine weather at a couple of beaches today :)
<MartijnVdS> looks good!
 * diddledan_ zeroes in on the doggypics
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> the forecast keeps saying it's only 15, but i'm sure it's higher
<daftykins> 'cause it's already at that my-forehead-is-caked-in-sweat from cycling stage
<daftykins> yay i got my new CD that's not scratched this time
<diddledan_> \o/
<daftykins> let's see how ripping fares this time
<daftykins> still need to send the old'un back D:
<daftykins> heh, i just zero'd the 2TB WD that was in my old array, that failed
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/te1n97adzd5iupo/afterzero.png
<daftykins> not as good as 2 million but definitely fubar \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-16
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> this show coppers on 4seven..edl protestors and uaf
<mapps> all look exactly like youd imagine..shaved heads for edl..uaf loads of odd balls
<Myrtti> oh my god what a brilliant feeling it is to have slept enough
<Myrtti> GOOD MORNING
<MooDoo> howdy all
<mapps> morning Myrtti / MooDoo
<robotninja> mornin' all
<MooDoo> good morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Endangered Species Day! :-D
<ujjain> What is a chair called that you would use in a garden, outside that's actually like a bed, because you can really lie down on it, it's plastic.
<popey> ujjain: recliner?
<popey> ujjain: or sun lounger
<popey> ujjain: uk-lo-2.static.podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
<popey> oops
<popey> ujjain: www.amazon.co.uk/tag/sun%20lounger/products
<ujjain> that's perfect, thanks!
<popey> np
<foobarry> someone called mark shuttleworth has an account on our HPC cluster :-|
<popey> â»
<foobarry> "Mark Stephen Shuttleworth"
<foobarry> looks like a real person, he's logged in
<popey> not him
<popey> well, not our one
<MooDoo> he's normal sabdfl isn't he?
<popey> his middle name is richard
<foobarry> anagram of RMS?
<popey> never see them in the same room
<jussi> and the beard thing is scary...
<jussi> (has he still got the beard?)
<Myrtti> nobody denies it, so it must be true
<foobarry> how do i fix "stdin: is not a tty error" prodcued by a crontab that runs bash -l -c ?
<awilkins> ? http://tech.karbassi.com/2011/11/09/stdin-is-not-a-tty/
<foobarry> oh, i think i fixed it
<foobarry> i applie the change but it did not take straight away
<foobarry> i accidentally emailed 600+ users with a test message yesterday :(
<foobarry> fortunately it was not rude
<popey> he has
<foobarry> rms was born with a beard
<MooDoo> https://rms.sexy/
<foobarry> never clicking that link
<MooDoo> lol
<awilkins> That link is *awesome*
<awilkins> RMS ignores the beautiful surroundings in favour of his laptop in _so_many_places_
<awilkins> Sometimes the setting also includes cans of soda
<awilkins> Also, sometimes his has a ThinkPad. Other times he has that other laptop we can't remember but it's more Free.
<foobarry> oolong
<foobarry> or something
<diddledan> isn't that what the martians sing in jeff wayne's?
<diddledan> sing/scream
<davmor2> diddledan: The chances of anything coming from mars are a million to one they said
<diddledan> but still, they come
<davmor2> that'll be oooooooo laaaaaaaaaaa
<foobarry> just fell off my chair, literally
<foobarry> the back just snapped off
<foobarry> i went flying
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> i'm not even a bloater
<davmor2> hahahaha
<diddledan> sorry, I souldn't laugh
<davmor2> diddledan: no you say are you okay, then laugh
<diddledan> a dad would say "what did you do that for?"
<diddledan> http://rt.com/news/159304-proton-rocket-crashed-kazakhstan/ <-- saboutage?
<diddledan> speliign?
<bashrc> morning
<ujjain> Are liquors expensive at Testco?
<ujjain> Tesco
<foobarry> wrong chan ujjain
<ujjain> is there a offtopic ubuntu uk?
<foobarry> well this goes offtopic a lot because there are a lot of regulars in here, but if you arrived to ask that questions specifcially, then its prob the wrong chan.
<ujjain> well, I'm looking to buy jagermeister for my birthday party, people can come, just looking for a good price.
<foobarry> tesco is not too expensive
<ujjain> well, I use ubuntu and live in the UK since recently
<selinuxium> Morning all. having some fun and game trying to upgrade a server from 10.04 to 14.04.
<foobarry> asda might be a bit cheaper, but there's probably not too much in it
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> selinuxium, big upgrade :(
<diplo> Though then again, my home box upgrade from 10.04 to 12.04 quite well
<selinuxium> diplo. Sorry... i meant i was going form 10.04. to 12.0 4 ... then to 14.04
<selinuxium> Failing on the 10.04 tio 12.04
<diplo> What issue are you getting ?
<diplo> Just promised to make a brew, back in 2 mins
<popey> hi updated a vps from 10.04 to 12.04 this week
<popey> might go to 14.04 at some point
<selinuxium> 'Think' I may of found it... I will let you know... :)
<TwistedLucidity> Is 14.04 out yet for servers? I thought we have to wait for 14.04.1
<TwistedLucidity> ?
<selinuxium> Had 'E:Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks' looked in '/var/log/dist-upgrade/apt.log' and found that unixodbc was flapping... removed it with apt-get remove and now all is groovy.
<DJones> TwistedLucidity: The automatic offer of upgrade isn't set yet, that doesn't come till 14.04.1 (I think 24th July)
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity, the upgrade path isn't stable between 12.04.x and 14.04 until the .1 release
<TwistedLucidity> Thanks - thought so
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity, that doesn't prevent you from doing it anyway, and you can always install a new 14.04 without waiting
<brobostigon> opensim setup again, now to build the perfect virtual pub, :)
<TwistedLucidity> I think I'll wait - had issues on the desktop machines going to 14.04
<TwistedLucidity> So don't want to risk the server until things are more stable
<diddledan> I've upgraded 6 servers without problem
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Clearly you do not have my magic touch :-S
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: https://simtk.org/home/opensim/ ?
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, the other one. A bit like OpenWonderland. Interesting.
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: opensimulator.org
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~gwendal-lebihan-dev/+archive/cinnamon-stable
<popey> how is that private?
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~gwendal-lebihan-dev/+archive/cinnamon-nightly is public - I didn't realise individuals could have private PPAs
<selinuxium> popey, How is the syncthing going?
<popey> works for me â»
<selinuxium> I am using Opencloud atm... was thinking of giving it a go..
<foobarry> whats this canonical orange box?
<selinuxium> looks amazing... Trying to get the business to buy me one as a dev box.
<foobarry> got a link to article?
<foobarry> please
<popey> blog.dustinkirkland.com/2014/05/the-orange-box-cloud-for-free-man.html
<foobarry> ta
<diddledan> foobarry, it's cluster-in-a-box
<foobarry> how much?
<popey> depends
<selinuxium> 40 cores, 160GB of RAM, 1.2TB of solid state storage... *drools*
<popey> Primary use case is you get the box and some training from canonical for a couple of days, keep the box for a couple of weeks
<foobarry> so landscape is still a thing?
<popey> yes
<popey> then send it back, and migrate to big boys cloud
<foobarry> we are looking for openstack providers for big cluster upgrade next yr
<foobarry> so would be up our st
<MooDoo> foobarry: 7k basic up to 9k with 2tb drives ish!
<MooDoo> foobarry: if you wanted to purchase one for yourself that is :D
<popey> thats if you wanted to buy it
<MooDoo> yeah just said that :D
<popey> which I suspect most people wouldn't
<popey> i typed before you pressed enter
<MooDoo> hehe
<directhex> http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/05/13/world_of_warcraft_gender_switching_why_men_choose_female_avatars.html
<popey> hah, that's brilliant
<foobarry> In fact, itâs all about the butts. Because players see their avatars from a third-person perspective from behind, men are confronted with whether they want to stare at a guyâs butt or a girlâs butt for 20 hours a week
<foobarry> should have " "
<MartijnVdS> there's also the gift factor
<MartijnVdS> Somehow, if you're playing a female character, random people start giving you thigns
<MartijnVdS> loot
<foobarry> like irl in bars
<directhex> i've opted to play female characters given the choice since street fighter 2
 * davmor2 complete blames diddledan for the fact that I'm now listening to War of the Worlds
<diddledan> lol
<MooDoo> davmor2: no one would of believed that
<popey> i played a female in 2nd life
<popey> for the cumulative hour or two i ever went onto it
<diddledan> I play a female at the weekend
<directhex> i mostly play narrative-focused games rather than online games, and i pick female avatars because their stories are more interesting. i already know the outcome of that game where a badly shaved space marine guy shoots the aliens.
<directhex> VERY few games with both choices actually pick up on them in the content, though. mass effect did, dragon age did, fallout new vegas did a little
<jussi> I play heroes 3 mostly as a male, but sometimes use the female. thing is, I chose not based on gender but what they can do...
<davmor2> diddledan, popey: I'm not sure which is more stomach churning :)
<directhex> yeah it's different when you're looking at specific characters with specific traits
<directhex> the guys get heavy armour, the women get bows & arrows, usually
<directhex> but, y'know, why? maybe the story of the female barbarian would be interesting
<davmor2> diddledan: or are thieves mages
<davmor2> directhex: even sorry
<directhex> also, grr @ chainmail bikinis
<ikonia> directhex: the old C64 game barbarian 2 had a slightly different story for the female player, so even back then it was a trait
<davmor2> directhex: you wear a chainmail bikini this is a whole new side to you
<diddledan> chainmail bikini because the boobs are vital, but the stomach isn't
<davmor2> I beat they chaff I'm not supprised you don't like them :D
<directhex> diddledan, apparently so
<diddledan> directhex, and obviously the bad guys always aim for the boobs with their swords
<diddledan> ok, that sounds risquÃ©
<directhex> good female armour in sword-heavy games needs to do the absolute opposite of what they do - i.e. plate over the boobs which sticks out means a sword hitting them would get funnelled towards the (unprotected) heart
<directhex> it should stick out past the bustline in the middle, or be flat against the bust
<jussi> directhex: but, but, but appearances! :P
<davmor2> directhex: I have to say this, You know it's only a game right ;)
 * bashrc is not familiar with gladiator fashion
<MooDoo> watch the film :)
<davmor2> bashrc: no don't watch sparticus it's much better
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Commas are important. :-)
<davmor2> bashrc: no don't, watch sparticus it's much better
<davmor2> :P
<foobarry> spartacus the film or spartacus the porno thats shown late at night on obscure channel
<jussi> no, I'm sparticus!!!
<jussi> foobarry: ...
<davmor2> foobarry: thats just wrong
<diddledan> foobarry, I don't want to know about your spartacus' sword
<directhex> davmor2, it's hardly inclusive to make the female characters there purely as eye candy for pervy male players
<davmor2> directhex: yes that's how they sell the games in the first place :)
<jussi> directhex: and what about the pervy female player? (see, you are making asumptions about men also... ;D )
<diddledan> jussi, are you suggesting something?
<jussi> diddledan: only that its wrong to assume only men are pervy...
<davmor2> directhex: You'll notice 9 times out of 10 you either have the male heros with scantily clad maidens swooning or the female hero at the front with the male characters you're actually likely to use faded in the background and that's just the cover of the game
<directhex> jussi, male characters in western games aren't designed to match what female players find attractive, according to countless surveys on the matter
<jussi> it would be an interesting excercise to see how they would be designed if they were...?
<TwistedLucidity> As IT (including games) is male dominated, you get the male fantasy.
<TwistedLucidity> Simply because there aren't enough women devs to give the inout
<TwistedLucidity> "input"
<diddledan> lol @ inout
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity, freudian euphemism
<diddledan> ?
<jussi> oops...
<TwistedLucidity> Or the "O" being beside "P"
<TwistedLucidity> Someone should to a game where the female character is a muscle-bound freak and the male character runs around in chainmail "Speedos"
<TwistedLucidity> Actually, that would be rather hilarious
<shauno> both of these things are awkwardly possible in WoW :/
<directhex> generally not
<directhex> see also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egNGa41tRac
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: ROFL
<Myrtti> I wonder if a realistic timetable for a day excursion in London would be a walk in Belgravia and possibly seeing Buckingham Palace and then Forbidden Planet and then home
<MartijnVdS> that would be a morning or an afternoon for me
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I'd rather timetable less and do stuff spontaneously than fill my day with possibly unrealistic expectations of what I'll manage to see and then be disappointed
<Myrtti> the only fixed thing is that Belgravia walk has to happen before 1500
<brobostigon> forbidden planet :)
<Myrtti> (as the whole point of the trip to London is to go vote)
<diddledan> xzip blows my mind
<diddledan> 21MB text file down to 1.3M
<davmor2> diddledan: what does 7zip do to it
<diddledan> haven't tried 7zip
<diddledan> don't have that installed
<diddledan> xz comes out-of-the-box
<davmor2> diddledan: try it sometime
<shauno> I never realised how useful ears are :/  I have some inner-ear thing going on.  my hearing is messed up, my balance is messed up, and I'm getting carsick sat at my desk
<diddledan> shauno: still gets motion sick, eh? look at me, steady as a rock, we could go forward backward up down...
<diddledan> ID4 quotes FTW
<jussi> shauno: you aren't supposed to drink at work...
<jussi> :P
<davmor2> diddledan: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7472940/
<davmor2> diddledan: looks like a similar kind of ratio to xz
<diddledan> davmor2: 3.5:1 is comparable to 20:1?
<davmor2> diddledan: I did default xz on the same file got 4562
<diddledan> aah
<davmor2> diddledan: as I same pretty similar
<davmor2> diddledan: -rw-r--r-- 1 davmor2 davmor2 2799504 Dec 14 16:32 whf-tax.pdf.xz   -rw-r--r-- 1 davmor2 davmor2 2799502 Dec 14 16:32 whf-tax.pdf.7z  a whole 2 in it :)
<davmor2> diddledan: on a plus side 200000 smaller than the original pdf :)
<Myrtti> peanut butter + chili noodles = wow
<palnj> popey, are you guys doing 14.04 CDs, or is that not a thing anymore?
<popey> it is a thing
<jpds> Myrtti: World of Warcraft?
<popey> shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=1146
<palnj> Is this not valid anymore, then?
<palnj> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<popey> nothing to do with me, that's AlanBell
<shauno> pre-orders for 12.10?  ;)
<daftykins> lol.
<palnj> The current state of my internet isn't helping either :/
<daftykins> oh?
<daftykins> i'm sure it's better than dial-up and ISDN :>
<palnj> T-Mobile EDGE tethered to my laptop...barely getting 15kbps
<daftykins> omw, why on earth do you use that?
<palnj> No goddamn 3G coverage in my area
<palnj> Well my broadband's been down for a few weeks...typical Sky.
<palnj> Seriously they've just postponed activating my fiber optic for 2 weeks because BT need 4 weeks notice to change line rental.
<daftykins> !
<palnj> At least it isn't dial-up, though. Paying for internet per minute? *shudders*
<daftykins> ehehe
<daftykins> palnj: are you after a substantial quantity for a loco, or just ones for personal use?
<palnj> Just personal use.
<daftykins> what do you do for keeping up to date, or if new installs have problems?
<daftykins> e.g. with hardware support
<palnj> 12.04 works pretty damn nicely on my current machine, after little to no modification.
<daftykins> mmm, i've seen a lot of that not being a transferrable truth over in #ubuntu support though
<palnj> Really? Hardware-wise? I've actually never had that problem on any machine I've stuck Ubuntu on.
<palnj> Lucky me, I guess.
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> you must not have anything up to date enough or with awkward wireless adapters
<daftykins> or any desire for proprietary graphics drivers
<palnj> Not really, no. xD
<palnj> But 12.04 works flawlessly on my macbook
<palnj> There was just an annoying thing with the keyboard backlight being set to 100% on every reboot
<palnj> But that was since fixed.
<daftykins> impressive
<palnj> Impressive that I didn't do anything? If you say so.
<daftykins> palnj: no that it works so well on a mac
<daftykins> hrmm i might be scoring a second desk and a chair for free \o/
<davmor2> popey: supercat to the rescue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbEnGoqFnko
 * Monotoko facepalms
<daftykins> ?
<Monotoko> a PHP script I've been chasing around for the past hour... I was echoing out the values, then trying to work out why in the comparison, it was dying out
<Monotoko> turns out missing an = sign and using if ($saved_hash = "") sets saved_hash to nothing and screws it all up
<popey> we've all been there
<mapps> well thats a tad annoying
<mapps> my chromecast wont seem to work with iplayer
<mapps> youtube works fine..but it just says error connecting when trying iplayer
<diddledan> is there a celebration today? fireworks have just been let-off
<diddledan> two screaming rockets which upset the entire neighbourhood dog contingent
<shauno> russia invades amazingstoke?
<diddledan> hmm, facebook are shutting down xmpp chat
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<diddledan> https://developers.facebook.com/docs/apps/changelog right at the bottom there's a footnote
<diddledan> rumour is that'll be 30th April next year for the switchoff
<brobostigon> thank you, i will read.
<MattJ> In other news, for anyone who runs an XMPP server - many servers will begin requiring encryption to communicate with them (either as a client or another server on the network), from Monday
<MattJ> as per https://github.com/stpeter/manifesto/blob/master/manifesto.txt
<popey> Evening all.
<popey> Also, Jabber \o/
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
 * popey looks forward to having a Jabber client on his ubuntu phone one day
<MattJ> I hope it'll be a good one
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-17
<whowhat> @search lafevers
<mapps> heh whats he doing
<MartijnVdS> acting like this is an ebook piracy channel
<mapps> ah
<ali1234> anyone else noticed that page up and page down don't work properly in firefox 29?
<MartijnVdS> I don't use firefox, but what's wrong with pgup/dn?
<ali1234> you;re at the top of the page and you press page down
<ali1234> it goes down 1 page
<ali1234> then you press it again and it goes back to the top of the page
<ali1234> forever
<ali1234> page up is the same, except from the bottom
<ali1234> also home/end are broken
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> ali1234: works fine here
<ali1234> try on youtube front page...
<ali1234> bug 1320450
<lubotu3> bug 1320450 in firefox (Ubuntu) "page up/page down/home/end don't work properly in firefox 29" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320450
<popey> ali1234: works if you click somewhere on the page then pg up/down
<ali1234> sometimes it does, sometimes it gets stuck at the top or bottom
<popey> i think the focus goes to the search box
<popey> which defeats the navigation buttons
<ali1234> at first
<ali1234> but even after that it can still get stuck in different ways
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<aquarius> that'd be "afternoon" ;)
<bigcalm> Right now, I'm surprised that it's night night. I feel that I've done far too much already today
<bigcalm> And in a while, I'll be driving to Leicester. Is there anything there?
<aquarius> leicester? Walkers crisps headquarters
<bigcalm> Exciting
<aquarius> not really
<aquarius> my ex-wife, too :)
<aquarius> other than that, not a lot
<bigcalm> We're attending a birthday bash for a friend of my wife. That's not until 7pm, so wondering what we'll do in the mean time
<bigcalm> Doh, sorry man
<aquarius> it's not a very exciting city. Every time I've been there it's been for things like shopping, for which Highcross is a perfectly adequate big soulless shopping centre :)
<aquarius> if you like rugby, Leicester Tigers are one of the best teams in the country
<bigcalm> I thought it was the Worcester Warriors
<popey> ali1234: hows the install going?
<popey> er aquarius
<dutchie> bigcalm: warriors won 1 league game last season :P
<dutchie> oh, it was 2 in the end
<slithering> hi there ubuntu lovers
<slithering> you're all wrong
<slithering> Debian is the one and only god
<daftykins> and you're a spaniard in a UK channel
<daftykins> :D
<slithering> any problem
<slithering> you're still wrong
<daftykins> yep, you should be trolling your kinsfolk
<slithering> I'm on a crusado all over the world
<daftykins> i see
<slithering> for Debian, the truly king of the free OS
<slithering> It is not about trolling
<daftykins> that doesn't even make sense, ignoring your poor English
<slithering> there are arguments
<slithering> sudo for everything
<slithering> what's wrong with su -
<daftykins> please go away.
<slithering> oooh it's for your own safety
<slithering> ok, but to be honest
<slithering> I'm currently using
<slithering> guess what?
<slithering> Backtrack, ubuntu based system
<slithering> and using xchat with root permissions
<slithering> as the fool I am
<slithering> MWAHAHAHA
<slithering> I hope you've enjoyed me
<aquarius> hmph.
<aquarius> I'd like to remap my Caps Lock key to produce the letter "r".
<aquarius> After much reading about how this *used* to work, I discovered that the world is xkb these days
<aquarius> so I edited /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/gb as per https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Howto%3A%20Custom%20keyboard%20layout%20definitions to map caps lock to r
<aquarius> and that works brilliantly, at the login screen
<aquarius> but it doesn't work once I'm logged in!
<aquarius> what do I have to do then? Anybody got any idea?
 * daftykins attempts to make french toast
<diddledan> daftykins, just leave a female out in the sun and it'll soon toast
<diddledan> sunburnt frenchies ftw
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yckmqht2a13izpg/AACjDclE1jHNeNQS24N1kJbDa
<daftykins> o0
<MartijnVdS> wentelteefjes!
<diddledan> why do people still think it's possible to prevent php software from being copied?
<diddledan> or modified
<MartijnVdS> or h4x0red
<diddledan> ooh, 12.10 went EOL yesterday
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: bless you
<daftykins> ;)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: pwned then
<daftykins> hmm?
<daftykins> my HTPC is based off 12.10, it'll need upgrading soon then
<penguin42> diddledan: Ooh, I'd better force my dad to upgrade
<shauno> I want to finally upgrade my little lucid vps this weekend :(
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> fabric or xoyo
<mapps> choices choices
<Azelphur> I pushed version 2 of my pushbullet library, can send notifications (notes, links, files, etc) to your smartphone (iOS or Android) from the command line, or as a Python library
<Azelphur> https://github.com/Azelphur/pyPushBullet :D
<daftykins> i think it's brownie o'clock
<mapps> its too hot to do much here
<mapps> 15c!!
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> yeah think it headed to 20 here today yet again
<mapps> yea
<mapps> its crazy hot
<penguin42> anyone good with avconv/ffmpeg
<penguin42> I'm trying to encode a load of images and have a choice of bad options
<penguin42> I can encode slowly with vp8, or fast with mpeg4, but the mpeg4 fails to decode
<mapps> not i :)
<mapps> vp8?
<penguin42> I think it's the google derived webm stuff
<daftykins> penguin42: i'd bet some of the fiends in #xbmc might be good, often pretty idle in there though
<penguin42> thanks, I'll try there if I don't get any further - it's a little cheaky since it's not xbmc
<mapps> ah ok
<mapps> why do u need to encode them
<penguin42> it's cctv, captured from a dumb camera that just spits out jpg's
<daftykins> ah, they're a lot more relaxed than ubuntu channels ;)
<mapps> whats wrong with jpgs;p
<penguin42> mapps: Size!
<mapps> ah ok
<mapps> thought maybe something else
<mapps> and lol daftykins i love how strict the chans are
<mapps> 'mind the language
<mapps> 'no off topic'
<mapps> 'go to #offtopic' bla bla
<penguin42> hmm, got mp4 working but the quality is erm....awful
<daftykins> you vill pledge allegiance to ubuntu ja?
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> i moved my desktop and netbook today
<daftykins> penguin42: mp4's more a container, what're the codecs in use?
<mapps> previously had my laptop on my tv stand and id be hunched over as its lower than a desk heh
<penguin42> daftykins: mpeg4 I think, -vcodec mpeg4
<mapps> now  swapped places :D
<daftykins> does it support profiles then? for quality levels
<penguin42> daftykins: NMot sure yet, the mp4 one I'd be happy to give it more CPU on, and if necessery more bits; but the wp8 one looks great it's just so slow it's almost real time
<daftykins> i'm hoping i can score a free desk and chair soon \o/ be really cool to have a separate desk to do my laptop surgery on :D
<penguin42> the mpeg4 encoder doesn't seem to have many options
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> and no quality levels on vp8?
<penguin42> hmm there are a load of 'flags' but it's a little difficult to guess which to try
<penguin42> (and I've not persuaded h.263 to work yet)
<penguin42> ooh, libvpx has a -cpu-used value
<penguin42> and a -cpu-used
<penguin42> my camera generates about 5fps, but I want a few to be able to run at the same time, so the 81fps that the mp4 codec can do is great - the 5 the vp8 was doing is useless, also with --cpu-used 3  it's managing 16fps - lets see what the quality comes out like
<mapps> is this round your house?
<penguin42> nod
<mapps> how long do you store it for
<penguin42> ah, haven't got into that yet - but had to stretch the partition a bit already :-)
<penguin42> I can't do motion detection of where the camera is - I tried it
<mapps> so you just gonna record 24/7
<penguin42> nod
<mapps> also unless im misunderstanding are you talking about still images and not video
<penguin42> well, it's 5fps continous - so what's your definition of video; it's currently jpg, I'm trying to turn that into video
<mapps> the cameras hooked up to a dedicated machine running i assume linux for this?
<penguin42> not quite dedicated, and yes Linux
<mapps> sory for the qs just curious:)
<penguin42> it's a fanless celeron, so not much compute
<mapps> ah
<penguin42> (modern fanless celeron - 2x1.1GHz, SSE4.2)
<mapps> ah cool
<mapps> guess it doesnt get too hot or anything
<penguin42> no, CPU was hitting 49C doing encoding
<penguin42> there is a large, slow fan in the PSU, temperature controlled and I think it's almost never on
<daftykins> mosfets are most efficient at a high temp as far as i understand it
<penguin42> hmm, I thought you got thermal runaway
<daftykins> no idea :D
<superglue> how do I configure xchat-gnome not to auto-join this channel?
<mapps> cant remember took me ages
<mapps> http://xchat.org/faq/#q23
<superglue> I have a nasty feeling I rebuilt it last time
<daftykins> are you trying to say you don't like us? :(
<superglue> mapps: thanks
<penguin42> hmm right
<penguin42> nice avconv -framerate 5 -i %03d-capture.jpg -vcodec libvpx -cpu-used 10 -threads 2
<penguin42> 53fps on a 1.1GHz celery
<penguin42> that'll do nicely
<penguin42> and at 200kbps I could offsite that
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> crikey, what gen celeron?
<penguin42> modern
<penguin42> bah ark.intel.com is broken
<daftykins> :(
<penguin42> http://ark.intel.com/products/56056/Intel-Celeron-Processor-847-2M-Cache-1_10-GHz
<penguin42> it's just the search that's broken
<penguin42> daftykins: Fanless, and very cheap
<daftykins> ah-har 847, BGA? so comes as part of boards? or is it a laptop? :)
<penguin42> right, it's on the board - http://www.scan.co.uk/products/msi-c847ms-e33-intel-nm70-intel-celeron-847-ddr3-sata-iii-pcie-20-%28x16%29-d-sub-hdmi-matx
<penguin42> daftykins: So that's #53 for a board, including cpu and heatsink that has a few PCI/PCIe slots
<penguin42> I think it's also used in the lower end NUCs
<daftykins> wow that's cheap :D
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> you could spend more on the RAM for it, haha
<penguin42> yeh, I can't remember what my final bill came out as
<daftykins> i'm really quite looking forward to how good this Â£290 Dell optiplex thing i ordered for my parents, will be
<daftykins> finally time to ditch the WinXP running AMD Athlon XP and nforce2 setup
<penguin42> it was 165.53 inc (excluding a case/keyboard since I put it into an existing one, but including PSU, 2GB RAM, and a bottom end SSD)
<daftykins> ah-har
<penguin42> it's also used on some of the NUC boards, and I think there might be a newer version of that CPU now - but I wanted a board with a bunch of slots
<daftykins> NUCs do look very tempting machines
<penguin42> I'm not covinced the BIOS in this board will allow me to run virtualised stuff
<penguin42> hmm, maybe it will - I see vmx in the cpuflags
<daftykins> ooh yes VT on a celeron is a surprise
<daftykins> in fairness i run two VMs atop my pentium dual-core file server and i don't even notice it doesn't have VT
<penguin42> right, and it's just brand naming differences
<daftykins> i thought it would have some actual practical implications to context switching
<penguin42> oh, sorry I mean brand differences between pentium/celeron/etc
<daftykins> ah, i did wonder
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-18
<ali1234> what's the deal with this red hat openstack thing?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> ali1234: you need to be more vague â»
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<ali1234> popey: i don't understand what is the configuration that red hat don't want to support?
<ali1234> openstack running on red hat or red hat running on openstack?
<ali1234> or red hat running on openstack running on red hat?
<ali1234> or what?
<ali1234> and why would any company support another company's products?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/skrzdfi8q9rokxb/AADVgOITYFmr_8HPIXH2THT-a
<daftykins> the big operation time has come
<penguin42> we can rebuild that machine....
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> we have the technology
<daftykins> one more pic added
<daftykins> just pulled the dead 2TB from the old array
<daftykins> penguin42, lol all these old drives just screwed straight in with 4 screws, ugh
<daftykins> i'm having to reposition 3 drives to make room for a fourth
<daftykins> in that bottom one - https://www.dropbox.com/s/sy17875th7rz15e/IMG_20140518_183038.jpg
<diddledan> daftykins, are you going to swap one drive at a time with the raid live and resize it at the end once they're all in-place?
<diddledan> (with a resync every drive insertion)
<daftykins> diddledan, no, my controller is 12 port so i've had both arrays running concurrently
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> that's cheating :-p
<daftykins> just before i had the 5 bay enclosure sat on the floor beside the case :D
<daftykins> so now i'm finally rejigging it
<daftykins> just it's requiring lots of effort
<daftykins> i'm housing all of them but may not run the old array anymore to cut down on power consumption
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6uh2lozmektmwk/IMG_20140518_191251.jpg
<daftykins> there we go
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h8pw9nqtiy37vaj/IMG_20140518_191835.jpg
<daftykins> oh my word.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<MooDoo> daftykins: nice
<daftykins> nearly finished now
<daftykins> wobbly barbs in molex connectors? tedious.
<penguin42> nasty, wobbly barbs
<SuperMatt> http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2014/03/13/the-unexpected-default-program/
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ncb34nurvkczs6/IMG_20140518_195643.jpg
<daftykins> *phew*
 * penguin42 has never built a machine with casters on - have you thought about upholstering the top?
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> a nice tartan design perhaps
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygu1te4t6g9f5ws/IMG_20140518_200136.jpg
<daftykins> getting there...
<daftykins> and rebuilt \o/ https://www.dropbox.com/s/aslrcuw5ver0tqc/IMG_20140518_200536.jpg
<penguin42> you need a black bezel for your DVD drive :-)
<daftykins> penguin42, haha, it'd be nice to make that SATA too. i could disable the onboard PATA controller and be full SATA \o/
<daftykins> excellent, all powered up and the old array disconnected now
<daftykins> so that makes a change from 118W -> 86W
<diddledan> 32W. that's 14p every 3 hours
<diddledan> ish
<penguin42> about #1/day
<daftykins> ooh, 81W now it's settled
<daftykins> lol no, 75W now it says
<daftykins> brilliant \o/
<daftykins> oops, it just email'd me to tell me i'm missing a drive haha XD
<daftykins> nope it's all fine 0o
<diddledan> *yawwn*
<daftykins> i hear ya
<diddledan> grr @ netsplits
<diddledan> anyone still awake?
<daftykins> yes sir
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> diddledan: what's new sir?
<daftykins> how is amazingstoke in the sun?
<diddledan> amazingstoke is hot
<diddledan> I'm sweating
<daftykins> d'aww
<diddledan> got clint eastwood on the telly, though, so it's all good :-p
<daftykins> ok, just be sure to let him go home before he dies
<daftykins> i've heard about you and celebs
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I would guess he's a bit uncomfortable perched on top of an lcd
<daftykins> could be good for the back
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> like those funky chairs where you're half kneeling?
<daftykins> oh man, my main clients secretary used to have one of those
<diddledan> http://www.amazon.com/Flash-Furniture-WL-SB-210-GG-Ergonomic-Kneeling/dp/B000TMK0O0/ref=pd_sim_hg_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0VT9G5NTDR90RVJ6HSGS
<diddledan> weird things those
<daftykins> ooh yes
<shauno> oh god, we have one of those at work.  it's hilarious to sit on (rather than kneel on  hehe)
<daftykins> although the one they had only had the single central shaft and wheels, so you had to kinda fight to get on it
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-11
<mappps> hi all
<knightwise> morning mapps
<shauno> morning knightwise
<shauno> trying to install spotify on windows.  it's not going so well  heh
<shauno> and that took a little under 45 minutes :|
<RogersBlant> Morning; noob (gawd, hate that word!) here; q re replacement HDD and 14.04 LTS installation, any takers?
<RogersBlant> Anyone?
<nigelb> Try asking first?
<RogersBlant> Morning Nigel - I did, pls see above :)
<nigelb> RogersBlant: What's your question? I don't see anything in scollback.
<RogersBlant> oFair enough :) My HDD is dying, so I've ordered a new one, it's due later today (Toshiba Satellite C855-29M laptop). problem is that this is the first brand new fresh out of the wrapping HDD I've worked with, and need to know if there are pitfals to avoid when formattting it?
<nigelb> The last time I had to do this, there really wasn't any big pitfalls I hit that I can remember.
<nigelb> So, I don't think so.
<nigelb> But then, the last I did this was a year ago.
<RogersBlant> that's a relief, thanks :) Just to clarify, though, I'm going to be using a bootable thumb drive with 14.04 LTS on it - previously, I've overwritten an existing filesystem (Fat32, then replaced with EXT3 when FAT fell over), the 14.04 installer will cope with a fresh HDD?
<nigelb> So, I don't remember having trouble with this.
<nigelb> I mean, logically, it shouldn't have a problem.
<nigelb> The installer is able to format harddisks anyway.
<nigelb> the fact that it's new shouldn't make a difference to it.
<RogersBlant> outstanding, many thanks indeed :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<directhex> the installer will just create a fresh partition table and go from there. new disks are unformatted.
<RogersBlant> ah, cool, thanks :)
<popey> Good morning all!
<MooDoo> howdy
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> Morning all today is brought to you by the Letter L, For layla, lola and Liberian girl
<bashrc> tzag
<zmoylan-pi> and the number â
<davmor2> my wife said she was going to watch Blues Brothers I said not without me so now she is going to watch lost boys so I also have that ost running around in my head
<TwistedLucidity> They're going to remake Lost Boys
<TwistedLucidity> ^ prediction
<davmor2> time to kill all the film producers then
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, just means they'll hire some nobody to produce... cheaper too probably
<davmor2> Last fire will rise behind those eyes.....
<foobarry> m0nkey_: tht
<foobarry> that was me on 11s
<foobarry> faceb99k keeps saying "waiting for 1-edge-chat.facebook.com"
<foobarry> think they turned off too much chat
<foobarry> even on their own site
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Twilight Zone Day! ð
<bashrc> dodo-dodo
<davmor2> \o/ JamesTait twiglets
<JamesTait> Hah!
<zmoylan-pi> shatner on a plane!! \o/
<davmor2> JamesTait: the thing that scares me is that an entire generation will be cheering thinking this is a new sequel to a teenage vampire flick
<JamesTait> Or a rehash of the X-Files.
<zmoylan-pi> they are doing more x-files
<JamesTait> I know! ð
<zmoylan-pi> by the end was anyone watching x-files?
 * JamesTait does a little dance.
<JamesTait> I think I was, but it's a long time ago.
<zmoylan-pi> i started watching it again and seemed to have missed a lot of episodes from 7 onwards
<zmoylan-pi> *season 7
<JamesTait> I wonder if I still have them on DVD.
<zmoylan-pi> it was funny listening to the lone gunmen talking about how the feds were eavsdropping on everything
<davmor2> the thing I find most amusing about the x-file is in really life their beliefs are reversed, Mulder is the doubter and Scully the believer :D
<davmor2> s/really/real
<zmoylan-pi> was good scifi in it's day
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: that and twin peaks and the outer limits  I think those were the 3 weird thing on tv then weren't they :D
<zmoylan-pi> millenium and dark skies too
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no those were newer
<zmoylan-pi> outer limits was mid 90s too.
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: ah no millennium was 90's I thought it was 00's
<zmoylan-pi> saw a few episodes of twin peaks but it was too weird for me
<knightwise> morning peeps
<popey> yo
<diddledan> arta noon
<MooDoo> howdy
<diddledan> jeebers - 5TB WD Elephants USB3.0 drive for 119.99
<diddledan> methinks somewhat shy of a WD RED drive for NAS use
<diddledan> they like using their greenies
<diddledan> last WD NAS all-in-one unit I bought was a greenie
<popey> \o/ re-heated left-over lasagne for lunch
<diddledan> excuse that it's graham clueless, but funny: http://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/05/11/hacker-execution
<MooDoo> diddledan: i've got 2x WD reds for my storage server, they see ok :D
<diddledan> MooDoo: yeah, I'm using reds in mine
<MooDoo> diddledan: mine are just mirrored
<diddledan> I've got 4 in a RAIDZ (ZFS-based RAID5 equiv)
<MooDoo> nice, my server isn't that new so it'll only hangle 2 drives
<MooDoo> *handle
<diddledan> aah
<MooDoo> and only max of 1tb lol
<zmoylan-pi> 1tb... remember when 1tb was a lot? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i think you can buy usb drives that big now.  but you'd need deep pockets for next few years
<diddledan> hmm?
<moreati> A snip at Â£676 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc7k-DwrITI&feature=youtu.be
<moreati> er, I mean  http://www.amazon.co.uk/HyperX-DataTraveler-Predator-1TB-DTHXP30/dp/B00E65QM8O
<davmor2> moreati: how do
<moreati> davmor2: fine thanks, good to see you're alive still
<diddledan> byeck that's a big flashy stick
<elfy> I'd buy 10 - but it's grey
<zmoylan-pi> usb chunky...
<zmoylan-pi> and they only have 7 in stock
<knightwise> yo peeps
<shauno> I Think he's stuck in a loop ;)
<zmoylan-pi> stand back, i'm an engineer... ::thumps knightwise's connection::
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: that's not gonna work here use this hammer
<zmoylan-pi> no no, first a thump, THEN the hammer, THEN the big hammer
<zmoylan-pi> but it is acceptable to use a fubar in an emergency
 * davmor2 lines up his hammers muhahahahahahahaha
<diddledan> our procedure for recycling dead hard disks involves a hammer
<zmoylan-pi> i keep meaning to shoot dead drives with bow and arrow after a hammering to be sure to be sure
<popey> I just dd zeroes over them
<zmoylan-pi> what if they're not running well enough to 0 like that?
<shauno> use a sharpie
<zmoylan-pi> and write really really small? :-)
<shauno> yes :)
<zmoylan-pi> just remember to use permanent marker otherwise it would just be silly :-)
<shauno> actually, I bet platers could make for some pretty spirographs.  platter, spirograph & the pointy end of a compass
<popey> i usually dismantle them
<popey> and maybe scratch the disks a bit and put them in different bins
<popey> i haven't had many drives die though, which is surprising given how many I own.
<zmoylan-pi> i have had drives of every make, ilk and type fail.  some spectacurally
<diddledan> maxtor ftw!
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> I've only tried that once.  I wanted to fire it up with the cover off so I could see how fast thousands of rpm actually is
<zmoylan-pi> at my first job they did open 5-10mb hard drives to fix them...
<zmoylan-pi> when they cost a few grand it was worth the effort
<diddledan> oil-change
<diddledan> :-D
<TwistedLucidity> I've put my HDD in a vice to compress the data...
<diddledan> folks, this is fun: https://poststatus.com/the-trojan-emoji/
<diddledan> in other words: hoh lee pancake (crape)
<diddledan> crepe**
<diddledan> I can't spel foreign words
<zmoylan-pi> which is most of english so you do have a problem... :-P
<davmor2> diddledan: or words would of been enough there :D
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> davmor2: >.<
<diddledan> seriously though, that is a scary article
<diddledan> the entire world was broken for years
<davmor2> diddledan: people have been using windows for decades of course the world is broken :P
<diddledan> -_-
<zmoylan-pi> this is the os they use on british subs isn't it?
<diddledan> it took me ages to realise that todo was something you needed to do rather than some random thing that I had no clue what it was "what is a toedoe[phonetic]?"
<zmoylan-pi> a person i worked with yonks back pronounced menu minu to the confusion of all.  was very inspector closeau
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: they use windows nt on the subs
<zmoylan-pi> that's... reassuring... sortof... not really...
<davmor2> diddledan: todo it's like a dojo for origami right?
<diddledan> as in nt4 (the recent subs) or maybe even 3.51 :-p
<zmoylan-pi> running ie3 for interface...
<diddledan> davmor2: I figured it was something to do with feet
<diddledan> ie3? you mean mosaic, right?
<diddledan> I remember we had mosaic installed on one pc at school - that was the internet pc
<diddledan> had a dialup modem
<zmoylan-pi> i had arachne dos browser installed on a 286 with 640k of ram.  boy did that take a while...
<diddledan> after I left in 1999 they actually decided to update the network with a proper shared internet connection (adsl I believe)
<diddledan> back in those days a proxy server was almost a requisite due to the bandwidth issues of going over the wan
<diddledan> MS ISA server prolly
<diddledan> that's an acronym for "Internet Security and Acceleration"
<davmor2> diddledan: Industry Standard Architecture surely
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: from way back?
<diddledan> davmor2: not the proxy server, no
<diddledan> the proxy server was/is Internet Security and Acceleration as I said
<zmoylan-pi> some vague weird name.  does sound very microsofty
<MartijnVdS> acceleration. hah
<zmoylan-pi> well, compared to it's normal speed...
<zmoylan-pi> a shared isdn line for an office... the bytes really flew...
<diddledan> especially in split-line mode where someone's using the second line for a voice call
<diddledan> I remember when 36kbps dialup was fast
<foobarry> is prometheus any good? was on telly last night
<diddledan> foobarry: I enjoyed it but I'm not a movie snob
<diddledan> foobarry: I have friends that prolly hate it because they are
<elfy> which is as good as any reason to watch it :p
<diddledan> I tend to find something enjoyable in most hollywood stuff
<diddledan> I don't actively look for shod in a movie to prove that I'm oh so awesome because I saw that the story doesn't quite tie-in with science
<diddledan> it must be really difficult for some of these people who mark movies as "the worst thing since JFK" or some such to live with their huge egos
<foobarry> igenerally don't like hollywood stuff due to lack of story and character
<foobarry> but i'm open to seeing if i like it
<zmoylan-pi> hollywood has a tendency to cover up lack of plot with cgi
<diddledan> really I think prometheus is more of a stepping stone into a new story arc in the same universe as alien - it provides a bit of genesis for the alien creatures as a crossover and then goes it's own way to lay down characters for the parallel story
<diddledan> of course I'll admit that the alien vs predator films were bad bad
<diddledan> a shocking attempt at monetising two products in one outing
<zmoylan-pi> the books were good
<zmoylan-pi> _for_ cheesy pulp scifi
<foobarry> this C,H.I.P $9 kickstarter
<foobarry> whats the shipping to UK?
<zmoylan-pi> the pocketchip looks very interesting
<zmoylan-pi> someone said #20
<zmoylan-pi> but i'm sure someone will stock locally if they are successful
<Laney> student loan -> direct debit
<Laney> this sucker is nearly paid off
<popey> \o/
<elfy> indeed \o/
<davmor2> Laney: \o/
<zmoylan-pi> you'll be able to afford brand name noodles!! \o/ :-)
<Laney> I say nearly but it's actually like 11 months
<davmor2> Laney: in comparison to the how many years you have been paying it?
<Laney> graduated in 2008
<elfy> that's nearly enough to call it nearly in my book
<davmor2> Laney: yeah 11 months is close enough to nearly then :)
<diddledan> less than a year ftw!
<Laney> Don't know why these shenanigans are necessary
<Laney> SLC only learns how much you've paid from HMRC once per year
<zmoylan-pi> got to control those rebellious students...
<Laney> so you can end up overpaying until they get told the next april ...
<Laney> can't possibly imagine how this could be done differently ...
<davmor2> Laney: you realise of course that as soon as it is paid off, you will get spam mail off every credit card known to man plus every car company as your credit rating goes through the roof :D
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I'll be locking it away in a very safe cash isa for the forseeable
<Laney> until I can buy that van and take a decade off to go climbing in the USA
<diddledan> a decade?!
<davmor2> Laney: you'll want something a bit more comfy than a van :D
<diddledan> blimmin'eck
<Laney> haha
<Laney> (one month)
<davmor2> Laney: you're not married are you?
<Laney> (okay, okay, I'll go for a weekend before a sprint)
<Laney> (don't sack me!)
<Laney> nope
<davmor2> see how I can tell
<Laney> take off with your beloved to climb every day
<Laney> what could be better?
<davmor2> Laney: no it was more you had money you could put in an isa :D
<Laney> so I can buy a 200ft marble statue of davmor2
<diddledan> that's a large ....
<Laney> with a frickin laser beam attached to its head
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> in the eyes!
<diddledan> laserbeam eyes ftw
<davmor2> Laney: now take your pinky from the corner of your mouth
<daftykins> do you folk know of any mass mailing providers you can recommend? a mate that runs an art gallery is picking one for sending out business lark, she mentioned mailchimp so far
<popey> daftykins: mailchimp is the one that always comes to mind, yeah
<daftykins> ty sir
<diddledan> at work we use something called "smartfocus"
<diddledan> http://www.smartfocus.com/ ("the message cloud")
<awilkins> Need : an app that will make a reading list of files within a structure and keep a list of the ones you've checkboxed as "read"
<diddledan> err, huh? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32696505
<popey> he's comedy gold
<MartijnVdS> wait what
<MartijnVdS> "resignation rejected"?
<OerHeks> :-D
<diddledan> seems he's not allowed to leave
<diddledan> they're forcing him against his will to remain in charge
<MartijnVdS> well, as long as you still use FPTP he's mostly harmless ;)
<OerHeks> His wife, of course
<shauno> that was the plan anyway. he said he was going to stand down but still run for party leadership
<shauno> so it's kinda like .. he motioned for a vote of no confidence in himself, and the vote failed
<MartijnVdS> "Please stop trusting me" "NO"
<shauno> well, as much as I detest the guy
<shauno> he didn't really fail.  they got 30%? of the vote?
<diddledan> that's more worrying about the people that voted
<popey> if we had PR I doubt he would have got quite that many votes
<shauno> I'd hope not
<diddledan> pull-request?
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> that's what all Guernseys come with
<shauno> but I guess what I'm saying is no-one expects the leader of the green party to step down either.  the small parties got small parts.  it's not so mucha  failure, as simply reality not matching their optimism
<MartijnVdS> pull requests for lawmaking
<MartijnVdS> imagine the code reviews
<diddledan> and the inline commentsw
<daftykins> and the variable names
<MartijnVdS> and the Makefile
<MartijnVdS> I seem to remember someone was creating a collection of duck photos on G+?
<diddledan> duckies!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I found some on a bike ride today :)
<shauno> did you ring your bell furiously and then elbow them?  or is that just amsterdam :)
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fg7w49UnGA
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that's mostly just amsterdam
<MartijnVdS> shauno: my bike doesn't work on water very well :P
<shauno> oh hey, MartijnVdS .. I have some questions for you :)  (sensible ones  heh)
<MartijnVdS> heh
<shauno> one, philip tap, curious how you use yours .. I can't seem to create button profiles that toggle?
<diddledan> you're letting the side down, shauno !
<MartijnVdS> shauno: install "TapApp"
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it uses the Hue API slightly differently, and make the button toggle-capable
<shauno> ooh, interesting
<MartijnVdS> (I have mine set to toggle "last scene" and "all off", one button is "Random colours", and one is "dining room lights only, 75%")
<MartijnVdS> (the dining room one is a toggle too)
<shauno> yeah, that's more what I imagined it doing.  well, sans the colours, I haven't found much use for them
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they have seasonal themes too :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: with halloween, you could get "lightning" effects and random blue/orange hues
<shauno> similar question, I got a harmony remote, and can't figure out if there's a better way to customize it.  their app is more than a little annoying
<MartijnVdS> do you have one of the new (web based) hubs that also talks to the Hue properly?
<MartijnVdS> Or one of the XMPP ones that doesnt?
<shauno> just a remote, no hub
<MartijnVdS> ah.. haven't customized those
<shauno> hm, okay
<MartijnVdS> but the hub (especially the newest model) has a proper documented API
<MartijnVdS> http://myharmony.com/discover/harmony-api/
<shauno> interesting.  might have to look into the hubs if I can't get this to behave then
<shauno> hm, the philips api looks a lot more interesting than last I looked
<mappps> hi all
<mappps> my parcels arrived yay
<zmoylan-pi> what's todays parcel?
<mappps> new portable charger 15000mAH and a cable with both iphone charging connectors old 30pin and lightning and micro usb for droid
<mappps> however not sure how good it will be..ive had unofficial iphone cables before..after a week they stop working
<mappps> cant remember the reason i guess official cables have some kinda chip or something..but strange it worked o for a week
<mappps> ?
<zmoylan-pi> that's your punishment for not using true "it just works" apple hardware
<mappps> heh
<diddledan> phew
<diddledan> crisis over
<diddledan> mysql upgrade didn't work so I was frantically fixing a live system during the maintenance window
<diddledan> it didn't help that, yes, it was one of my beloved gentoos
<daftykins> diddledan: you've not murdered all of those yet! :P
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> I'm trying
<diddledan> so far the 10 physical servers are now ubuntified
<diddledan> it's just the vms now
<daftykins> ah-ha
<diddledan> just got done watching "debug" - it's an indie scifi - not bad
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> general premise?
<diddledan> 6 computer hacker prisoners are sent to a derilict space ship to delete any errant processes in the computer systems and reboot the ship ready for recommissioning. the ship has other ideas.
<diddledan> if you ever watched stargate atlantis then the film is by david hewlett (dr mckay from atlantis) and stars as the ship jason mamoa (ronan from atlantis)
<daftykins> aaaah neat
<daftykins> that sounds good, mmm
<diddledan> hmm, plex just treated me to a trailer for "babadook"
<diddledan> looks utterly frightening
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> changed your trousers i hope
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-12
<m0nkey_> alright, stick with lts or go 15.04?
<daftykins> depends on your hardware really
<daftykins> if it's new you might benefit from running 3.19, otherwise not especially
<Azelphur> Can anyone explain to me how this makes any sense http://pastebin.com/L0yfHSr4 look at line 87 and 147 onwards
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> please do
<ali1234> log_daemon_msg is overwriting the echo output
<ali1234>  /sherlock
<Azelphur> oh
<Azelphur> sadly that doesn't help me with the real issues :(
<ali1234> well, ask your real question? ;)
<Azelphur> it runs deluged as user deluge, not debian-deluged, and it doesn't run it with DAEMON_ARGS
<ali1234> seriously i'd be curious to know if i;m write
<ali1234> please pipe the output into hexdump -C
<ali1234> *right
<ali1234> too much serial port programming today
<ali1234> also, use systemd
<Azelphur> ali1234: lol, if I do sudo /etc/init.d/deluged stop | hexdump -C, hexdump doesn't catch the output
<Azelphur> (but if I use waffle instead of stop, it does)
<ali1234> none at all?
<Azelphur> $ sudo /etc/init.d/deluged stop 2| hexdump -C
<Azelphur> stop: Unknown instance:
<ali1234> then it's something weird in one of the files which is sourced
<ali1234> ie /lib/lsb/init-functions
<ali1234> seriously, just use systemd
<Azelphur> well this is the init script that ships with the package
<ali1234> report a bug then
<Azelphur> this is probably due to me upgrading through many versions and stuff changing
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> i suggest turning on trace
<ali1234> i don't remember how though
<ali1234> -x on first line
<Azelphur> ?
<Azelphur> oh I see, this is useful
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/19q8Yuek
<ali1234> riiiight
<ali1234> looks like + . /lib/lsb/init-functions does everything
<ali1234> everything after that line is probably just there for backwards compat
<Azelphur> yea, and looks like its converted it into an upstart script
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> this suddenly explains everything
<ali1234> so upstart handles known params like start and stop, otherwise it falls through to the initscript
<diddledan> lmao - kingsmen (movie) is hilarious
<Azelphur> ali1234: and I finally found out where all my bizarre deluge behaviour came from
<Azelphur> in days long past, deluge-web used to be a separate process, apparently it's part of deluged now, however the init script never got removed...so I had deluged and deluge-web both fighting and making everything break.
<ali1234> i lolled http://paste.ubuntu.com/11088403/
<daftykins> XD
<ali1234> at least i know that commands end with \x0a
<ali1234> "," appears to do something as well, it prints nothing at all
<ali1234> bingo... RST first command found
<ali1234> oh look, EPR and EPW again
<knightwise> morning peeps
<mappps> hey
<mappps> what you doing
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o moo
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> seems like ubuntu/canonical are going to take over the world - snappy powered fridge?  cool
<MartijnVdS> (I kind of installed Debian on my laptop though)
<directhex> i have no interest in a non-debian-based ubuntu
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> yeah me too
<ali1234> how apps are supposed to work together when they are isolated in containers has still not been satisfactorily explained imo
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: i like debian, use it on my storage server
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning
 * knightwise watching old star trek eps on netflix
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like work for the clipboard ali1234, a lot of work :-P
<TwistedLucidity> Things like Snappy are really neat, no dependency version hell.
<TwistedLucidity> But as you solve that problem, you introduce others (bloat etc)
<TwistedLucidity> So now you add de-dupe, which bring in another problem (load)
<TwistedLucidity> And so on
<TwistedLucidity> Guess it all depends on where your biggest pain point is
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: it's right there
<davmor2> Morning all
<TwistedLucidity> I'm mildly concerned about it (mostly as it's stepping away from Debian) but I want to see how things shake out.
<TwistedLucidity> There was so much mis-guided doom-mongering about systemd, I expect to see the same over Snappy.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: sorry I missed the start of the conversation :)
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: It was about how wonderful I am
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: hahahahaha, let me put you at your ease there as I pick myself up of the floor and wipe the spray coffee off my monitor......hahahahahahahaha
<TwistedLucidity> Just hear about MS's phone-convergence offering, sounds familiar
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: did you see the kernel panic auto rollback video?
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: For Snappy? No. I saw some comment about it, but didn't really investigate it.
<TwistedLucidity> Got a link?
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: let me have a dig
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Found one
<ali1234> i've got a question
<TwistedLucidity> Search engines are good - I should be less lazy
<ali1234> suppose there's a bug that causes a kernel panic once in a blue moon
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Well don't lose it. That question could be worth money some day!
<ali1234> and it's existed since day 1
<bashrc> good moaning
<ali1234> will i eventually end up back at snappy version 1?
<ali1234> what is a kernel panic happens because i spilled tea in my computer? does my OS get rolled back then?
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIHEy5saBa8
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Ta
<bashrc> so what's the difference between snappy and click?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bashrc: not much, snappy has enhanced the click package system if you like it is click2.0
<davmor2> bigcalm: hey dude how's life
<ali1234> bashrc: the big difference is that click was designed to package phone apps to be run on a deb-based system, where as with snappy the whole OS is packaged like a phone app
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2. It's busy and quiet. Work is keeping me occupied, but Hayley is in Turkey for a week, so somewhat quiet around here
 * bigcalm feels like a bachelor but without the perks
<zmoylan-pi> get that printed on a t-shirt :-)
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
<brobostigon> i saw a good tshirt yesterday, its said on the front, "she who shall be obayed" with an arrow pointing in one direction.
<diplo> Common things people forget to backup ?
<ali1234> server host key :)
<diplo> Copied /etc .ssh and .config
<diplo> And most of /home
<ali1234> mysql databases in /var
<diplo> Dumped my databases
<diplo> mysqldump, but that'll do
<diplo> Can't think of anything else, but I _always_ miss something
<MartijnVdS> dont forget to make a copy of /dev/zero
<ali1234> proprietary software in /opt
<diplo> dpkg --list export just to be sure
<ali1234>  /root if you roll that way
<diplo> nah I don't, /opt I'm happy with not copying
<diplo> Think I'm good
<diplo> Most stuff is in version control, most db's are remote and copied locally
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy International Nurses Day! ð
<MartijnVdS> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HelloNurse ?
<zmoylan-pi> a very underapreciated profession
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, it's like you'd prepared in advance!
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNNhuvox43I
<zmoylan-pi> or is just really really into nurses.  senior nurses, senior administrative nurses...
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: maybe I did :P
<TwistedLucidity> I just want to know where all theing "Internal Day of Chocolate Biccies" come from....
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I must be dumb, I really didn't follow that video at all. I'll look again at lunch when I can give it my full attention.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: it's the A/B rollback.  So initially there was an A it was working, the reboot happened on B, B kernel panic so it then fired A back up
<foobarry> bought some expensive foxs choc fudge crunch...disppaointly they taste just like bourbon
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, a one character difference is easy to miss when you are trying to watch a video (why no sound?) and work at the same time
<TwistedLucidity> "This video is unlisted. Be considerate and think twice before sharing." <- ominous
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: because there isn't any, I think and audio description of what is happening would of helped
<TwistedLucidity> Kinda what I mean "He we do A, now we do B...see the panic? And look, here comes A to the rescue" (cue bugles)
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: the old testament has a whole new meaning when you read bugles as bulges
<foobarry> http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/3doodler-20-3d-printing-pen-n03eb
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: It's a little known fact that any text or movie can be improved by replacing strategic words with "pants"
<foobarry> didn't quite set the world alight as hoped
<foobarry> i've moved on to jelly usb switch now
<foobarry> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joylabz/makey-makey-go-invent-everywhere-invent-now/video_share?ref=video
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: "I've moved on to jelly pants now" <- see?
 * bigcalm throws a Desperate Dan Cow Pie at davmor2 
 * davmor2 catches it, throws it in the oven and scoffs it up yum for lunch
<zmoylan-pi> no horses were hurt making the pie... /disclaimer
<bigcalm> It's going to be quiet on Wednesday
<zmoylan-pi> coz?
<davmor2> I'm not going to eat pie
<bigcalm> Pie hater :P
<zmoylan-pi> more pie for everyone else \o/
<davmor2> bigcalm: Just too much to do
<foobarry> come on sunshine!
<foobarry> shine on my lawn
<zmoylan-pi> shine on foobarry lawn...
 * davmor2 hears the distant rumble of thunder from foobarry 's direction
<foobarry> saw some green shoots
<foobarry> in my soil patch
<foobarry> we have been lacking in sunshine lately
<ujjain> how can I see a timestamp of a debpackage i have installed?
<MooDoo> http://linuxcommando.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/find-out-when-package-was-last.html
<MooDoo> both rhel and debian i believe
<diddledan> this looks hilarious: https://youtu.be/X4bF_quwNtw
<davmor2> diddledan: you should watch mortdecai
<Laney> SOREEEEEEEEEN
<MartijnVdS> ?
<diddledan> shh, doreen's eating her soreen
<Laney> well
<Laney> i couldn't actually find it so i got some cereal instead
<zmoylan-pi> soreen green is made of doreen?
<diddledan> nah, that's soylent
<ali1234> soreen is horrible sickly soggy squashed bread with bits of hard dried chewy stuff in it
<ali1234> the smell of it is enough to make me retch
<diddledan> apparently it's ten years ago today that the "leeroy jenkins" video first appeared
<zmoylan-pi> back when online gaming was new...ish
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-13
<diddledan> marnin'
 * diddledan blows raspberries
<MartijnVdS> void Void(void) { Void();
<MartijnVdS> }
<MartijnVdS> recursive call of the void.
<diddledan> oh boy, I feel nullified
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> allo
<MartijnVdS> \o
<zmoylan-pi> ello earthlings
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> morning from a different place
<zmoylan-pi> well if we were all in the exact same place it would violate some law of physics...
<zmoylan-pi> and good manners :-)
<diddledan> true
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: howdy
<davmor2> czajkowski: how do
<czajkowski> davmor2: all good
<czajkowski> co working day!
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 czajkowski
<davmor2> czajkowski: how are the cow orkers
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Alison Hargreaves Day! ð
<czajkowski> all good thanks just one today as popey is ill
<davmor2> czajkowski: booo
<davmor2> popey: get well soon the channel is too quiet without you
<JamesTait> At least we've still got davmor2 around to keep things lively. ð
<czajkowski> JamesTait: lol
<JamesTait> czajkowski, say hi to the chucks for me. âº
<davmor2> JamesTait: and why prey tell does a wench who can walk get an entire day to herself hmm hmm....okay walking up Everest alone without an oxygen tank is a huge feat but it basically boils down the Derbyshire bias doesn't it
<JamesTait> davmor2, I almost went with Top Gun Day, but I'm not sure I could cope with a whole day of the references.
<JamesTait> davmor2, and the Derbyshire thing. ð
<czajkowski> JamesTait: so when are you getting some hens
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> fresh eggs daily
<JamesTait> czajkowski, when we don't have any more cats. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: the one I feel sorry for is Old Brian Blessed who got 2/3's the way up and was well on track when one of his companions fell ill and they had to carry him back down :(
<czajkowski> JamesTait: the dog gets on wit them fine
<diddledan> aww, no popey?!
<diddledan> :-(
<czajkowski> JamesTait: also don't let yur hens roam free
<czajkowski> sorted
<JamesTait> czajkowski, or at least, when we're down to just the one cat. So a few more years yet.
<JamesTait> czajkowski, it's not the problem of them getting on that concerns me, it's who's going to look after them, buy them food, etc.
<czajkowski> ah yes
<JamesTait> czajkowski, if I'd wanted to live in a zoo, Twycross is only a few miles away. ð
<czajkowski> heh
<JamesTait> And there are loads of farms around here.
<JamesTait> For now....
<davmor2> JamesTait: of course there are loads of farms around you are one step shy of being a yokel :P
<JamesTait> Aar.
<davmor2> Ess
<popey> $morning
<davmor2> popey: \o/
<shauno> standardized greeting, fellow human
<davmor2> the irc calls have made you betterererer
<czajkowski> AlanBell: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Godalmingcommunityboard/permalink/825882560813663/
<foobarry> i like to annoy surrey types by pronouncing goldalming "wrongly"
<foobarry> wrong according to surreyers
<foobarry> god-owl-ming
<foobarry> i think they say godul-ming
<foobarry> and burpham i say burp-em
<czajkowski> lol
<foobarry> which might me correct
<foobarry> i had a colleague who said, is "gilford" the same place as "guildford", i'm confused
<davmor2> foobarry: pronounce brewood or smethwick
<foobarry> bree word
<foobarry> wood
<foobarry> smethick?
<foobarry> chiswick = chizzik
<zmoylan-pi> flippin romans... :-)
<popey> people don't say the d in guildford round here
<popey> also, there's a pretentions town near farnham called Webourne
<popey> they pronounce it "webbun"
<foobarry> weybourne
<foobarry> or is that different
<MooDoo> we have the same for southwell people pronounce it suthul or for blidworth bliduth
<foobarry> i don't know whether i call it gil or gild ford, i'll have to catch myself next time. i think i use the D
<zmoylan-pi> placenames hang onto original pronounciations long after the language has drifted
<foobarry> http://boingboing.net/2015/05/12/leetspeak-circa-1901.html
<davmor2> foobarry: wrong Brewood == brood and smethwick == smerick
<popey> sorry, yes, weybourne
<popey> i sometimes say the d in guildford, but really softly
<foobarry> my dad lived in weybourne i think. or between farnham and weybourne
<foobarry> never noticed the webbun thing but he wasn't oringinally from around those parts
<shauno> I have that a lot here .. I had to google to find out how to pronounce dun loughaire
<czajkowski> heh
<zmoylan-pi> it's where i am now :-)
<shauno> at least in english, if you try to pronounce it as it's written you just sound like an outsider.  in irish, if you try to pronounce what you see, you will choke
<foobarry> yesterday i found out what a sheela na-gig is. turns out it's a medieaval goatse
<zmoylan-pi> found on churches
<foobarry> can never hear that pj harvey song again without a certain image
<shauno> zmoylan-pi: I'll be ther week friday :)
<shauno> although not for a productive amount of time, I sail uncomfortably early
<zmoylan-pi> best to get out of dun laoire fast, tis a horrible town :-)
<popey> directhex: shame that aral is the posterchild for that encryption discussion
<directhex> i wish we'd stop gluing children to posters
<directhex> it always ends badly
<TwistedLucidity> Try Scotland. "Milngavie".
<TwistedLucidity> To pick but one
<shauno> ohoh I know that one, it's a trainstation on the way to glasgow
<shauno> okay, apparently it's not.  I wonder why I recognise it then. hm.
<foobarry> mugabe?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: No far off with that
<TwistedLucidity> I thought "DÃºn Laoghaire" would be "Done Low-air" seems it's actually "Don Lair-ruh". Being a Northerner, what would I know? :-)
<shauno> I came up with "leery".  but wasn't expecting it, because lough is like loch, so laoghaire is like ..wat?
<TwistedLucidity> "Milngavie" is "Mull-guy"
<TwistedLucidity> "Menzies" is "Ming-us" and spelled with a "z" rather than the "ying" due to the advent of moveable type.
<TwistedLucidity> Opps, the letter in question is "yogh". È
<directhex> tee hee. i greatly offended a genius supercoder on twitter for saying people who write their own crypto algorithms are idiots
<MooDoo> and that's something to be proud of?
<MooDoo> :p
<directhex> laughing at idiots is like 37% of my day
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: Unless their job happens to be writing crypto algorithms.....
<directhex> TwistedLucidity: even then!
<directhex> a decent cryptographer will need far more reason to roll something new instead of using a known trusted algorithm
<TwistedLucidity> "Welcome to the company Lee. Your our new crypto algo. author. DON'T DO ANYTHING!"
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: True I guess. But algos eventually fall, someone needs to move the maths forward.
<TwistedLucidity> Probably an army of maths profs.....
<directhex> TwistedLucidity: if you're not publishing research papers before shipping apps, you're not pushing the maths forward
<directhex> you're just praying security through obscurity works
<TwistedLucidity> Indeed.
<diddledan> shauno: laughaire is a scottish lake-based airline?
<MooDoo> any one fancy a cheeky nandos? lol ha ha ha ah ha #worldnews
<davmor2> MooDoo: What is a cheeky nandos </best_american_accent>  I did the he's a ledge and the Archbishop of Banterbury
<MooDoo> davmor2: hee hee
<Myrtti> kek
<diddledan> nandos are always a good idea
<MooDoo> agreed
<popey> i remember going to nandos in swansea when I worked there, and loved it.
<popey> Went recently with wifey and kids and wasn't impressed
<ahayzen> popey, i read that as when you were working *in* nandos lol
 * ahayzen imagines ordering food from popey 
<MartijnVdS> "Aubergine please"
<popey> sauces are over there
<MooDoo> glad i'm not the only one that read it as that lol
<popey> *points*
 * popey wanders off in a huff
<ahayzen> lol
<popey> Never worked in a restaurant of any kind.
<popey> One day I'll burn all these computers and go and run a restaurant or somethin
<ahayzen> thats 'the dream' ;-)
<diddledan> not so much a restaurant, we want a pub with proper pub grub
<diddledan> steak n chips ftw
 * diddledan drools
<diddledan> although the pub here does an awesome cheese buger where the cheese is brie
<diddledan> +r
 * diddledan drools again
<diddledan> The Gourmet Burger Kitchen in basingstoke were excellent, too. last I went.
<popey> ahayzen! Happy birthday!
<diddledan> :-o
<ahayzen> popey, thanks mate :-)
<popey> ahayzen: (I uploaded Music app to the store earlier as a present) :D
<ahayzen> popey, really?! lol
<popey> ya
<popey> :)
 * ahayzen spots 2.1.x in the store
<popey> :)
<ahayzen> \o/ thanks now we wait for a load of bugs to come in
<diddledan> bugs ftw
 * ahayzen senses its time for beer in a pub garden somewhere bbl o/
<popey> screw everyone else, works for me :) http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-05-13-145311.png
<popey> o/ ahayzen
<popey> ahayzen: you know what this app needs...
<popey> EQ :)
<ahayzen> definitely :-)
<diplo> eagles \o/
<davmor2> ahayzen: man you must be old enough to go to school on your own now,  hey popey these kids today they grow up so fast ;)   On a serious note happy birthday dude :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: he might as well call you dad ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: and you are older so you are granddad right :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: rats am I older, darn it lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: you're welcome :)
<MooDoo> hehe
<Azelphur> Does anyone know if there was a microsoft update rolled out today?
<TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: I had a reboot alert this morning, so probably
<TwistedLucidity> It appear just after all the VMs came on-line...no way I am rebooting until the end of the day
<diddledan> Azelphur: yesterday was patch-tuesday
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> ISP are claiming my 4mbit download speed (on a 70mbit fibre line with a 70mbit sync) is down to Microsofts updates
<Azelphur> I'll let them have this one, the last 5 times its been overselling
<diddledan> 4 is below the fault level according to BT
<Azelphur> what are the fault levels again?
<Azelphur> or where are they documented
<diddledan> I believe it's about 16?
<Azelphur> I have tried to find them but never had any luck
<diddledan> https://support.aa.net.uk/Slow_Speed_Faults
<diddledan> that's not bt canonical documentation tho
<diddledan> but aaisp are pretty reliable
<Azelphur> also, I'm curious, can someone else do a speedtest and see if their connection is crap, because logically speaking if it's Microsoft update, everyone should be screwed right now
<Azelphur> yea they are
<Azelphur> although they don't seem to mention the 70mbit downstream stuff anywhere, it's all 40 or 100 (FTTH)
<Azelphur> still yea below the fault threshold
<Azelphur> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4357075319 much functional, such speed, etc.
<diddledan> ouch
<popey> Testing download speed........................................
<popey> Download: 104.06 Mbit/s
<popey> no probs here
<Azelphur> popey: your virgin right?
<popey> ya
<popey> can't imagine windows update during the day is the cause of issue here
<popey> home users aren't online at 3:30
<Azelphur> yea, they always come up with BS excuses as to why its slow, I get 67mbit on TAP3
<TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: 52mb down, 2mb up.
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: on what ISP?
<TwistedLucidity> Virgin
<Azelphur> I see :)
<popey> i can imagine that being a reasonable excuse on patch tuesday in the evening, but even then it smells of BS
<popey> Although on Ubuntu release day we've been known to peg some ISPs :)
<diddledan> Azelphur: your upstream is fine. just turn the cable upside down and use the upstream for download instead :-p
<Azelphur> indeed lol
<diddledan> your ping is pretty reasonable too
<diddledan> strange that download is THAT bad
<Azelphur> It's a very common issue sadly, most of the time they are overselling
<TwistedLucidity> "popey in Ubuntu bloat admission schocker!" :-P
<Azelphur> their procedure is absolutely retarded, they essentially wait until the node is overloaded and customers start complaining, then you have to wait for the next review meeting which is up to 1 month, then they upgrade the links.
<foobarry> yotaphone2 looks decent now
<diddledan> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4357092618
<diddledan> that's on a shared network with a dozen and a half other people in the office
<foobarry> diddledan: heheh
<foobarry> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4357097800
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> that's way unfair
<diddledan> foobarry: where you at?
<foobarry> inside the matrix
<diddledan> >.<
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: and then the other spin on that "popey admits Ubuntu is popular ISP's complain"
<Flashtek> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4357124501
<Flashtek> not quite as fun as foobarry's result though
<diplo> I won't post mine as it'll make me feel worse than ever :D
<davmor2> not too bad http://www.speedtest.net/result/4357150999.png
<foobarry> that is from my desktop too
<foobarry> if it was from server room then maybe 10gb
<diddledan> foobarry: do it on a server
<diddledan> one which has a 10Gig-e
<foobarry> how? perl script?
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> there's actually a speedtest package somewhere (is it in the repo?)
<diddledan> speedtest-cli
<davmor2> foobarry: speedtest-cli
<davmor2> foobarry: speedtest-cli --share so you get a link
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: hey saves him having to remember the numbers walk out and post them from there :)
<diddledan> aww, it's not in 14.04 repo
<diplo> I'm seriously debating going back to Virgin after seeing all your tests :D
<diddledan> doo eet</arnie>
<diplo> foobarry: http://lintut.com/test-internet-speed-from-linux-command-line/
<foobarry> just finding a 10gb machine
<davmor2> diplo: mines normally higher but I was doing some stuff on the server at the same time
<diddledan> oh boy, he actually has one
<foobarry> get same speeds, i wonder if the speedtest are maxed out at 1gb
<diddledan> :-p
<foobarry> servers
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> prolly
<diddledan>  https://www.speedtest.net/result/4357175198.png
<diddledan> that's supposed to be a webserver, too which means I'm crippled for serving requests
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32714802
<shauno> I have no idea what this cheeky thing is, but they've snuck it into their wikipedia's page quite tidily.
<foobarry> diddledan: that was in the manifesto
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> still sucky
<foobarry> depends
<foobarry> i saw that jihadi brides progs
<foobarry> lots of active twitter accounts that are radicalising and enitcing them to syria
<diddledan> quote: '"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'," [mr cameron] will say.'
<diddledan> which can be read as "we're gonna root through your undies whether you're bad or good!"
<intrbiz_cr> it's interesting that the torries think that, the snoopers charter and repealing the human rights act, should be priorities
<intrbiz_cr> especially after fighting the election effectively solely on enconomic arguments
<davmor2> intrbiz_cr: yeah but they are politicians they never do what they say they will
<intrbiz_cr> hehe
<diddledan> if you expect the unexpected you never know what to exxpect
<davmor2> intrbiz_cr: they lie for a living what do you expect, they make the legal system look white as the driven snow
<diddledan> time to head out
<diddledan> tata
<Azelphur> https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=pmPU93NZNAjby5G aww yis, WiFi on the beach :)
<daftykins> where are thee?
<Azelphur> daftykins: Margate :)
<Azelphur> that's my home router, got an RT-AC87R in the Window, line of sight to the beach so it covers most of it.
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> hrmm wonder how far you can get
<Azelphur> daftykins: https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/index.php/s/bRISdcMHHiawDit should get fairly decent range
<Azelphur> (todo: buy table to put it on)
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> ah short strip
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> do you get much wind battering the side there in the peak of winter?
<Azelphur> yes
<Azelphur> I actually had a window smash its clasp off a couple days ago
<daftykins> :S
<Azelphur> daftykins: mostly it's fine though, just has its bad moments.
<daftykins> just don't go carrying large sail-like objects :>
<Azelphur> yea pretty much
<Azelphur> plus there's a tunnel on the way to my house that seems to funnel the wind
<Azelphur> it's absolutely hilarious watching long-haired people try and get through it.
<daftykins> i'm one row of shops/restaurants/buildings from the seafront - 2 years back when we had that crazy Russian weather front bringing snow, it was insane just stepping out beyond that row :D
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> yeah i have long hair, it's bad :(
<Azelphur> hehe
<diddledan> ello
<popey> word
<zmoylan-pi> hammer time
<diddledan> the bird
<diddledan> the bird is the word
<zmoylan-pi> where's the beef?
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/2WNrx2jq184
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thelightphone/the-light-phone
<popey> how is that different from the million chinese tiny phones you an get off ebay?
<zmoylan-pi> saw one in dublin city centre about size of my thumb.  they sell to folk going into prison as they aren't detected by usual metal detectors
<popey> yeah
<popey> there was a bru-ha-ha here about the ones that look like car keys
<zmoylan-pi> beat the boss phones.  the americans sell a metal detecting chair called boss
<shauno> hm.  odd choices there.  you'd think "designed to be used as little as possible" would be the phone that lives somewhere 'in case of emergency'.  where battery>ooh it's thing
<shauno> er, thin, rather
<shauno> eg, a glovebox phone that can take AAs.  that's my idea of 'used as little as possible'
<zmoylan-pi> you can buy an emergency phone that will sit in a glove compartment for years with a single aa battery to run it when you want it
<zmoylan-pi> but it's off all that time
<popey> I have a few phones here that could service as backup phones :)
 * popey looks at his firefox os phone
<popey> which only rings when PPI people call me
<diddledan> \o/ ppi claim lines!
<zmoylan-pi> my nokia e61 was uncharged for a year when i needed it for 3 days in hospital.  worked grand :-)
<diddledan> I get at least one per day
<diddledan> on my landline, tho
<shauno> I really though the firefox phone was going to be an april fools' joke :(
<popey> hah, just took it out of airplane mode
<popey> now I'm getting sms spam on it
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> oops
<popey> http://imgur.com/fEvUxVK
<zmoylan-pi> 15 years standby... http://www.macworld.com/article/1167107/emergency_mobile_phone_runs_on_single_aa_battery_stows_for_15_years.html
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder if the 2g network will still be around then...
<popey> would the temp not affect that?
<zmoylan-pi> it's a lithium battery. the kind they use in torches in life vests and rafts.
<popey> http://www.spareone.com/
<zmoylan-pi> basically a watch battery
<popey> haha, if you navigate away you get a discount code :)
<zmoylan-pi> the number of people i see with smart phones AND a back up dumb nokia...
<ali1234> o/
<zmoylan-pi> but also more and more non technical people.
<popey> hello ali1234 not seen you for a while
<diddledan> allo ali1234
<ali1234> ..... i was here the whole time
<ali1234> just saying i have a backup nokia :)
<ali1234> my android now has a 4 hour battery life
<popey> which nokia?
<popey> I was dangerously close to buying a 3210 off ebay recently
<ali1234> a C7
<zmoylan-pi> i got a nokia e51 for â¬50.  symbian, wifi, 5mp, office apps, web, ereader...
<zmoylan-pi> but symbian apps are getting harder to find.  haven't looked much yet though
<ali1234> i don't use symbian because it has apps :)
<zmoylan-pi> and i still use my s40 nokia more.
<popey> oooh http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nokia-N82-Black-Unlocked-Smartphone-/221750404409
<popey> i loved my n82, last nokia I had before android
<zmoylan-pi> i like qwerty keyboards.  proper
<popey> hello X3N
<mappps> yello
<zmoylan-pi> i got ssh working on symbian and intend to use it as a terminal for a rasp pi in my bag for maximum geekiness :-)
<diddledan> green
<Azelphur> Anyone feel like giving me a hand with SMB? Here's my config http://paste.ubuntu.com/11120492/ got nothing showing up in thunars network area
<diddledan> Azelphur: just so you don't think you're alone, I've had a look but I'm pretty much n00b when it comes to samba. I can't see anything wrong with your server setup.
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, I'm not having much luck, http://pastebin.com/8f6wAhJ3 has additional information
<diddledan> are any of your systems firewalling?
<diddledan> smb is a weird broadcast beast so it could be firewall on any of the systems both client and server
<Azelphur> afaik none of them are, I did have UFW on the server for a time but I disabled it to my knowledge.
<diddledan> might be worth double checking
<Azelphur> suggestions on how I'd go about that?
<diddledan> sudo ufw status
<diddledan> if it says "active" then it's firewalling
<Azelphur> inactive on client and server
<diddledan> score one for the network demons
<diddledan> the good guys never catch a break :-(
<Azelphur> hehe
<diddledan> what does `sudo netstat -ltpn | grep LISTEN |grep -v grep` show?
<diddledan> bah I suck at memory
<Azelphur> diddledan: on the server?
<diddledan> the second grep isn't required - that's a `ps aux` grep command to filter out the filtering processes
<diddledan> yes plepase
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11120959/
<diddledan> ok, I'm not seeing nmbd in that list
<Azelphur> rofl, so this is fun
<diddledan> nmbd is the name resolver for windows-style network addresses
<Azelphur> share shows up fine on my laptop.
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> that's wonky! :0p
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> how dare it confuse matters like that!?!
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/bdSL4p38 ... >.>
<diddledan> I don't suppose there's any helpful messages near the end of /var/log/samba/log.nmbd?
<diddledan> likewise for /var/log/samba/log.smbd
<Azelphur> well, I reckon rebooting my PC will solve it, amusingly the PC is the one machine on the network that doesn't really need the SMB Share
<Azelphur> so this works fine \o/
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> "good enough" is the goal of most tinkerers :-p
<diddledan> sorta "meh, it's not right, but I can live with it"
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> and yea, reboot fixed it on my PC too xD
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-14
<mapps> bey all
<daftykins> mornin
<mapps> sup
<mapps> lol at this pm
<mapps> <Aretina13> its looking like that your windows is not patched...,please download a fix from -> http://192.168.0.9/SystemFix.exe
<daftykins> on freenode?
<daftykins> report it to #freenode
<OerHeks> daftykins, lookt at the IP :-D
<daftykins> oh yeah, hah
<mapps> ;D
<daftykins> maybe it's a beginner hacker ;)
<daftykins> ugh my eyes get so funky at this time
<mapps> daftykins almost fell for it
<mapps> teehee
<daftykins> well it wouldn't work so it wouldn't matter if i went click happy
<daftykins> that's not even my home subnet
<daftykins> :>
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> csi cyber time
<mapps> diddledan still watching it? about to start e12
<mapps> i honestly think it got a lot better after e1 and the 4.9/10 on imdb is unjust
<diplo> mapps: Nope it still sucks! You're just getting used to it :)
<daftykins> haha expectations gone down
<MooDoo> morning all
<daftykins> o/
<Hazed> good morning everybody.  i have a issue with 15.04 (though it happens since 14.04).  when i boot my keyboard layout changes back to from uk to us.  ubuntu keeps doing this from time to time.  im curious to see if anybody else knows about this problem?
<directhex> havenb't seen it, it persists for me
<Hazed> would the model of the laptop i'm using cause the issue (i have a lenovo x220)
<Hazed> ?
<directhex> doubt it
<Hazed> oh good. :) thank you for clearing that up.
<davmor2> Morning all
<daftykins> o/
<MooDoo> hello daftykins
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<daftykins> time to take apart an oven 0o
<daftykins> this'll be fun
<davmor2> MooDoo: how's life good sir
<MooDoo> davmor2: good thanks mate :D nothing exciting to report, not had to touch my servers in ages as they are working pretty sweet, how boring eh lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: servers are meant to be boring though, they are meant to just site there and work :)  You had a play with juju yet or snappt for that matter :)
<davmor2> that would make life exciting again :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: nah mate, once i got ubuntu/kvm/glusterfs working no need to try anything else at the moment, maybe if i win the lotter and can have my own datacenter :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: you can play with them in vm's :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i know, my host doesn't have that much ram, i may play in time, but why touch the servers if i don't need to...:D
<davmor2> MooDoo: snappy will run in kvm on your laptop as will juju what's your excuse now :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: damn you
<MooDoo> davmor2: thinking of getting this so i can code with my son/daughter :D - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Your-Kids-Code-Parent-Friendly-x/dp/1593276141/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1431591635&sr=8-3&keywords=teach+python
<davmor2> MooDoo: nice :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: however if it doesn't start '10 print "Dad's a muppet"; 20 goto 10'  it's not teaching them to code the way we learnt :)
<Laney> going to be a noisy day
<Laney> got window fitters here
<daftykins> erk!
<MooDoo> davmor2: he knows what one already lol
 * Laney is camped out in the dining room instead of $office
<Laney> they just walked straight upstairs and started working
<Laney> no chit-chat
<Laney> that's what I like to see
<MooDoo> Laney: give it 10 mins when they break for tea ;)
<davmor2> Laney: no excuse for not using irc more than ever not to mention telegram :P
<daftykins> need to stare at the job for a good hour, yet
<Laney> there is severe banging going on
<MooDoo> then lots of hhmmmmm arrrs then break for tea again
 * Laney inserts noise blocking headphones
<Laney> goodbye world
<MooDoo> they have brought the wrong windows ;)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<Laney> this is the part where the roof caves in right
<davmor2> Laney: cruel is meant to go in the middle there I'm sure
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<foobarry> is the best game ever, one that i have never played?
<foobarry> keep seeing teasers for games that in my mind are brilliant, but the reality is a letdown
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Golf Day! ð
<foobarry> tale of anubus (archimedes circa 1990), no mans sky (PC), after the rapture (PC)
<popey> yeah, no mans sky looks amazing
<popey> and is like games I've imagined since I was 10 years old
<JamesTait> popey, wb!
<popey> lo
<popey> also, NMS is PS4 exclusive initially :(
<JamesTait> Feeling better, I presume?
 * bashrc doesn't care much about games
<directhex> popey: sony are funding it
<directhex> popey: be glad it's not cancelled. the devs lost everything in a flood
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: So it's a rootkit in a fancy dress?
<directhex> TwistedLucidity: they're gonna get root access to everyone's ps4!
<czajkowski> aloha
<directhex> http://www.hellogames.org/2014/01/the-flood/
<popey> i knew of the flood, didn't realise Sony were fully bankrolling the thing afterwards
<daftykins> popey: hmm that looks neat
<daftykins> (NMS)
<daftykins> now i too shall growl at Sony :D
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: It's being released for Windows (not all PCs) so.....
<directhex> TwistedLucidity: sony's indie funding generally doesn't exclude PC ports. see also grim fandango remastered
<directhex> they're paying to block xbone ports
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: Crikey, GF-remasted is actually for PCs and not just Windows!
<foobarry> "no mans sky will be best game ever"
<foobarry> pretty much all websites repeating same hype
<popey> the port will come no doubt, just later..?
<foobarry>  :(
<popey> well, to be fair from the in game footage it does look a bit neat
<TwistedLucidity> Graphics don't make the game, playability does
 * davmor2 drives a certain VW over JamesTait foot you happy about that golf :D
<MooDoo>  I've just watched a youtube for no mans sky, looks amazing
<davmor2> I don't like first person perspective games and even I'm tempted but I don't want to have to buy a ps4
<foobarry> which one MooDoo
<JamesTait> davmor2, now we know why you no longer drive for a living. ð
<MooDoo> foobarry: just the one on the home page - http://www.hellogames.org/
<foobarry> i watched a terrible playstation livecast that made me cry
 * davmor2 parks the golf on JamesTait other foot and catches the train home
<foobarry> is it about flying exploring or first person exploring
<foobarry> i.e. elite or morrowind
<davmor2> foobarry: both by the video I just saw
<davmor2> foobarry: http://www.no-mans-sky.com/about/ watch the first video
<foobarry> dinosaurs everywhere
<MooDoo> shame it's only ps4 to start with, another game i'd just purchase
<foobarry> maybe in 10yrs i'll ask about the game again and buy a pre-owned ps4 if its worthwhile
<foobarry> i believed that shenmue was the best game ever
<foobarry> i decided that in 5yrs if it was still awesome i'd buy dreamcast
<czajkowski> davmor2: popey any idea why I'd be experiening this crazyness  http://pix.ie/czajkowski/3761313/size/1024  latest update of FF 38 on 15.04 is massive text
<foobarry> sounds a lot of  elite gameplay in it
<foobarry> the low flying dogfights look amazing
<davmor2> czajkowski: looks the same for me in FF and chromium so just you
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> chrome chromium are both fine
<czajkowski> I seem to have an OAP setting on FF :)
<czajkowski> Unfortunately I do use FF for work mail
<popey> czajkowski: dunno, maybe ask in #ubuntu-desktop
<popey> TwistedLucidity: I wasnt talking about graphics
<popey> also, duh
<foobarry> which is the best application for producing gorgeous user doc and tutorial documents ?
<popey> latex
<foobarry> (ultimately PDFs or web based)
<foobarry> will need screenshots
<popey> ubuntu manual is generated using latex
<foobarry> latex great for books and papers, not sure about tutorials with screen shots?
<popey> has many screenshots
 * foobarry checks
<foobarry> the old one?
<popey> http://ubuntu-manual.org/ that one
<popey> old?
<foobarry> this looks nice https://elementary.io/docs/human-interface-guidelines#popovers
<diplo> foobarry: I've started using Sphinx, uses rst format
<foobarry> i think they used markdown and github
<diplo> Can use markdown too
<directhex> i used princexml to generate good PDFs from xhtml input
<diplo> http://sphinx-doc.org/
<diplo> http://bootstrap-datepicker.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
<diplo> readthedocs uses it, I use their theme
<foobarry> lots of ideas, cheers guys
<foobarry> is the ubuntu manual latex source available?
<awilkins> There's an Ubuntu manual?
<popey> yes
<popey> http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved
<foobarry> thx popey
<Laney> I feel like a worrying amount of plaster has come off the walls where these guys are working...
<popey> is it landing in your tea, more importantly!
<Laney> there's a ceiling and floor in between us
<Laney> wasn't really counting on plastering and redecorating the rooms though
<foobarry> work or home?
<Laney> home
<foobarry> are they your men?
<foobarry> or a neighbour
<Laney> some local company
<foobarry> working on your property?
<Laney> yes
<foobarry> ah
<Laney> should I have expected there to be damage?
<Laney> the other rooms are tiled ...
<foobarry> i didn't account for having a buy a new patio and lawn after my extension
<foobarry> added a lot to budget
<foobarry> and also my kitchen diner got messed up but we painted over the ripped off plaster
<davmor2> Laney: anything they damage they should in theory put right
<Laney> kind of thought they would just make it fit in the same hole
<foobarry> decided on using atom editor and markdown
<davmor2> Laney: I am beginning to worry about your choice of glazier now :)  But I'm sure it will be fine when they finish honest
<Laney> hope so!
 * Laney is inexperienced in matters house
<zmoylan-pi> ji just know enough to avoid the straw and sticks variants... :-)
<ujjain> I have a question about stock.
<ujjain> are there cheap brokers of ETF's outside of an ISA?
<ujjain> most of them charge 0,3%, which is twice the cost of an ETF tracker
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: why the straw and stick homes are stunning nowadays :P  http://pajaconstruction.com/portfolio/joanne-calkins-straw-bale-home/
<MartijnVdS> ujjain: this isn't really a place for financial help
<zmoylan-pi> yeah they've built a few in ireland. lets see how they're doing in 20 years in irelands climate
<zmoylan-pi> and i'd want to see how they deal with radon gas in them too
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: better than you think if they are maintained properly.  There are some in the uk that are still standing happily after 200 year
<TwistedLucidity> How to ruin your own morning. 1) Release a product version 2) About 2 days later, deploy said version internally 3) Run around in a flap because it doesn't work
<zmoylan-pi> if it worked reliably, then ireland would already be doing it... we're cheap :-)
<TwistedLucidity> Then, about and hour later, realise that you deployed the wrong version so *of course* it doesn't work!
 * TwistedLucidity hangs head in shame
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: people in the UK and Ireland are too into brick.
 * zmoylan-pi hands TwistedLucidity brown paper bag so he can sit in corner in shame... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: in france and spain where the regs are less strict they are popin up all over the place same goes for earth shelters too.
<zmoylan-pi> ireland's rules are stict because stories of the 'night of the big wind' remain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Big_Wind
<Laney> HAHA wtf
<Laney> glass just rained down
<Laney> looks like it was one of the old ones ...
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I wonder how hard they are to insure....
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: They cost less, are naturally fire retardant and on the whole you don't need much in the way of heating so less likely to catch fire so on the whole cheaper
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: the issue is planning permission
<TwistedLucidity> I'm more thinking of the standard "Is you home built from stone/brick/concrete? (Y/N)" limitation that most policies seem to impose.
<TwistedLucidity> I quite like the look of some of the eco designs.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: I think the big issue would be finding an insurer that understands the building materials once you have that it should be cheaper I assume there are wiki's that will have that kinda info too
<TwistedLucidity> More than likely. As for planning permission - dead easy. Just find some greenfields; the council won't object.
<TwistedLucidity> Mumble...grumble...
<foobarry> do you need planning application for a loft extension?
<diplo> If it is to be lived in yes
<diplo> IE a bedroom
<foobarry> my neighbours down the road didn't get one
<TwistedLucidity> Yup. Our council had a really good website where you could look up the regs. Depends on size, if it's to be lived in etc.
<diplo> They'll need retrospective later if they want to sell it :)
<foobarry> i searched the council site
<foobarry> not there
<TwistedLucidity> I'll see if I can find the link again....been ages
<foobarry> they aren't my direct neighbour so i aint getting involved
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I don't think this is what I used, but it looks good (although none of the interactive stuff works for me) http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/
<TwistedLucidity> I guess my council may have just mirrored it, I remember reading the area/height regs for the shed I was building
<foobarry> my daughter wouldn't sleep unless she had all of the following with her in the cot http://i.imgur.com/WQKF4ql.jpg
<foobarry> asked for one at a time
<foobarry> JUST GO TO SLEEP!! need kangarooo...
<foobarry> ok here's your kangaroo, please sleep. need cat...
<popey> hah
<popey> sophie used to have a blanket made from a ripped up top wifey used when breastfeeding
<popey> "raggy"
<foobarry> oph yeah there's the 2 muzzies she has too
<popey> She once had it tucked in the back of her trousers as a "tail" when she was pretenting to be a horse.
<popey> Went to the loo, forgetting it was there, turned round to flush
<popey> bye bye raggy
<foobarry> oh dear
<popey> she was devastated
<popey> we couldn't stop laughing
<popey> luckily she'd ripped it up and there were loads of them left
<davmor2> popey: see and this is why parents are evil :D
<foobarry> we thought muzzies were a good comfort as they are replaceable but daughter wants "yellow muzzie" which is the white one, not the yellow one.
<popey> sam had taggies
<foobarry> and son still likes bear muzzie and star muzzie
<popey> the things that have tags all round them
<popey> they're very popular
<popey> we also bought backups of their fave toys in case of loss, from ebay
<foobarry> Weak hand grip linked to early death, cardiovascular risks: study
<popey> TIL: Sainsburys diet lemonade is disgusting.
<foobarry> features pictures of handhakes rather than the truth which is: The study involved people between the ages of 35 and 70, who were followed over four years. They were asked to squeeze an object as hard as possible with their hands in order to measure the force exerted by their grip.
<foobarry> diet everything is gross
<foobarry> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/sex-offenders-star-trek-flat-being-sold-by-his-ex-wife-because-she-wants-a-fresh-start-10248955.html
<foobarry> i think if they wanna sell it they shouldn't tell everyone he's a paedo
<mapps> this duolingo app is kinda cool
<mapps> helping me with my spanish:D
<mapps> learning Russian and Spanish atm -- spanish foremost
<foobarry> wow, the simpsons is still going?
<foobarry> do they still show new eps on british telly?
<zmoylan-pi> i stopped watching after season 10
<foobarry> any good apps in the latest amazon app giveaway?
<foobarry> sorcery 3 of course
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> tzag bigcalm
<popey> bigcalm: morning onion-breath
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> I'm enjoying it while I can
<bigcalm> Picking Hayley up from the airport at 4am on Saturday
<diplo> 4am?!!? Tell her to get a taxi! :D
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of app maybe on your phone... :-)
<bigcalm> I am that taxi
<zmoylan-pi> can you do the rudeness and archaic opinions?
<popey> http://teslaclubsweden.se/test-drive-of-a-petrol-car/ is quite entertaining
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't listen to diplo
<diplo> !!!!!!
<diplo> :P
<foobarry> ok i'm not sold of markdown
<foobarry> on*
<foobarry> seems too simplistic
<awilkins> The upside of Markdown is there are so many libraries to parse it
<awilkins> The downside of Markdown is that they don't all do it the same, or support the same features
<foobarry> yeah so the same basic common fature set is small
<foobarry> i guess its useful for various contributors to a github project
<awilkins> I like Textile, but virtually nothing other than Redmine supports it
<awilkins> What we really need is a single, well documented, standard (as in - there is a set of unit tests that must pass that document at LEAST it's rendering as HTML)
<awilkins> For the UberWikiTextFormat
<foobarry> the alleged twiki<-> markdown conversion in pandoc doesn't exist
<foobarry> maybe i'm using markdown wrong
<foobarry> or maybe its a way to get people to write basic stuff that gets presented in glorious css styled pages at the end
<foobarry> or maybe its just hipsters re-inventing wiki markup
<intrbiz> IMHO Markdown is easier than wiki markup, or at least I can remember it more / use it more
<intrbiz> you can always inline html in markdown if you need complex stuff too
<popey> anyone moving house http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-49902001.html
<popey> the only thing out of place there is the glitter ball
<awilkins> And the urge not to touch anything because it was previously inhabited by a paedophile.
<popey> it was?
<popey> ah
<popey> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tony-alleyne-star-trek-fan-2256669
<popey> He once claimed: "Some people might think I'm a bit of a sad individual, but I'm not. I'm just really into Star Trek - it's my only vice."
<popey> 50% true
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> is he in jail?
<popey> he was
<popey> sentenced to 3 years, 2.5 years ago
<popey> turns out it wasn't his flat
<davmor2> hahaha
<foobarry> :-|
<Laney> window guys have left for the day and there's a glass shelf suspiciously missing from the bathroom
<Laney> bet they broke it when they smashed the window
<foobarry> shoulda hired linux ones
<Laney> REISUB
<diplo> awilkins: sphinx checks your syntax is correct before outputting it to html
<diplo> Or rather it checks the rst format is correct and warns you whats wrong
<foobarry> output from markdown->pdf or html is ugly and massive
<foobarry> latex learning curve a bit steep
<awilkins> Markdown --[pandoc]--> DOCX is horrible
<awilkins> Markdown --[pandoc]--> ODT  --[LibreOffice]--> DOCX is also horrible
<awilkins> I suspect it's mostly because DOCX is horrible
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: DOCX is an open standard and is filled with sugar-frosted unicorns. It shows how much MS cares. :-S
<foobarry> i wonder if i can write in markdown and conver tto latex and get nice docs
<foobarry> or is that witchcraft
<popey> I'm sure it's _possible_
<Laney> sure you can, pandoc can do that
<dauntless888> Wondering if there is anyone familiar with SSMTP? Trying to use no auth for googleâs restricted gmail smtp server aspmx.l.google.com
<dauntless888> Canât seem to find any clue when searching if this is documented
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-15
<diddledan> from a kerbal person: "Jebadiah says the new KAS harpoons are safe: http://i.imgur.com/GtDtt2W.jpg"
<zmoylan-pi> merely a flesh wound
<diddledan> I think most wounds tend to be in the flesh, no?
<mapps> hi kids
<diddledan> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning everyone
<diddledan> m00
<diddledan> no, wait, that's for MooDoo
<diddledan> erm. <insert witty retort about knightwise's nick>
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> good timing there diddledan :D
<diddledan> baaa
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> that's not right!
<knightwise> anyone get the Dell Xps 13 developer ed yet ?
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> knightwise: is this just a dell with ubuntu on it?
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<knightwise> MooDoo: sort of.
<knightwise> they have 2 models , one with a QHD display and one with a FullHD display
<knightwise> i'm kinda wondering which one I should get
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> Laney: hows the windows work going
<knightwise> morning davmor2 Laney
<Laney> some of them seem to be in place
<Laney> can't really tell how it is going to look when they're done
<Laney> will be fine if they do good quality work *cough*
<Laney> haven't started on the kitchen windows though so i'm dubious they will finish today as planned
<Laney> (been sitting in their van outside for 30 minutes now)
<awilkins> We had that. Wardrivers in the car park.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Nylon Stockings Day! ð
<diddledan> oh myy
<popey> Nylons! Well sir!
<davmor2> JamesTait: thanks now I need some mind bleach you in Nylons is not an image I need this early in the morning
<JamesTait> But davmor2, it's Friday!
<knightwise> Nylons + hairy manleggs !
<knightwise> has anyone seen the Dell XPS13 in action ? the 2015 edition
 * diddledan puts rocky horror on to watch
<diddledan> now that's how you wear stockings!
<MooDoo> I loved going to watch that at the theatre
<davmor2> It's just a jump to the left
<davmor2> and then a step to the riiiiiight
<MooDoo> hehe
<popey> well, today I learned http://danielpocock.com/android-betrays-tethering-data
<davmor2> put your hands on your hips
<awilkins> This is one of the reasons I like GiffGaff - at least their tethering policy is clear
<awilkins> They let you tether on anything that has a limited data plan
<awilkins> But not the unlimited plan
<awilkins> I think it's silly - if you actually use enough data for it to be worth the unlimited plan on a phone, you're probably a real YouTube addict
<diplo> They didn't use to, it was explicit no tethering at one point
<diplo> Still used to do it occasionally, but never had an issue
<awilkins> They do seem to be reasonably open to influence from their customers
<awilkins> I think unlimited data plans are silly though
<diplo> Seem to be having worse signal though in recent months even though my friends on O2 have great signal in the same area
<diplo> Not sure why
<awilkins> Offering unlimited usage of a limited shared common resource is inherently destructive to that resource
<awilkins> diplo, Same phone?
<awilkins> diplo, you should test it by swapping SIM cards some time, see if it's an antenna issue
<diplo> Brand new phone ( for me ) but friend has similar issues on GiffGaff
<diplo> He's debating leaving because of it, different model.. S5 I think, I've got G2
<diplo> Odd that O2 and Giffgaff have different signal strengths, I'm guessing some limiting by O2
<diplo> As 4G is being picked up by O2 users here now, not getting it myself but I do in other towns/cities
<jpds> diplo: Do you have a 4G goodybag?
<diplo> Yup
<diplo> Signal I'm sure got worse since switching over to it too
<jpds> I get 4G around most of London.
<diplo> I've debated changing back to the non 4G to see if things improve
<directhex> awilkins: unlimited data isn't about using unlimited data, it's about not needing to think about it. on orange, i couldn't click youtube links when not at home
<directhex> or i went over quota by downloading an album i wanted to listen to in the car
<zmoylan-pi> storage is so cheap, it's as easy to carry a large part of your music collection with you
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, Yeah, I used to carry my whole music collection with me (N900 with a 32GB SDCard in it)
<awilkins> Whole music collection is around 18GB
<popey> \o/ found local cafe with free wifi
<awilkins> So I can't do that on my Nexus4
<Laney> I don't really have a digital music collection any more
<Laney> never bother to rip things
<awilkins> Spotify?
<awilkins> Laney, Heh, I only rip things
<zmoylan-pi> i don't like depending on the cloud as it's not reliable
<Laney> plus I usually buy vinyl HOF HOF HOF
<awilkins> CDs have the following lifecycle in my house i) ripped to OGG ii) put back in the case iii) Filed in the attic
<zmoylan-pi> i don't do step ii.  i throw out the case and put the dvds and cds in storage boxes as the cases take too much space
<Laney> I have premium so can save songs locally if I want to
<awilkins> Yeah, I do also
<Laney> got a few albums stored that way
<awilkins> It annoys me that Spotify streams are Vorbis but their player won't play OGG files
<popey> filed a bug?
<awilkins> It means I can't use Spotify as the one single ubermusic client
<awilkins> A Spotify Plugin for Rhythmbox would be the other solution :-)
<awilkins> popey, Have raised it on the forums
<awilkins> popey, Also, hang in an IRC channel with a Spotify dev (she worked on the new PS4 client)
<awilkins> It has to be a conscious choice, I can't imagine any developer not taking the chance to make their client play local OGG files when all the libraries are there anyway
<popey> wonder if it's possible to make a library that you could pre-load before loading another app (like RB or Spotify) which faked the metadata and dynamically transcoded audio files
<popey> so when the app searched for mp3s the library said "yeah, these Oggs are mp3s" and when the app opened them it just used lame (or whatever) to transcode
<popey> only really useful for proprietary apps though, and we don't care about them :)
<directhex> popey: several upnp apps do that
<directhex> was always a problem for me trying to find guides on serving mkv files to my tv
<directhex> my tv will play mkv files as long as the MIME type says "this is mpeg-2" not "this is mkv"
<directhex> but the web i swamped with guides for transcoding to mkv
<directhex> er, to mpeg2
<popey> right
<davmor2> pull your knees in tiiiight
<TwistedLucidity> Pretty sure that "faking the media type" is someting Universal Media Server does....not played with it much
<foobarry> yay
<foobarry> pandoc(markdown+latex)= easy to write beautiful docs
<foobarry> use markdown whenever you just want to write texty things , use latex for latexy bits
<Azelphur> Managed to squeeze a little more out of my clock, seems stable so far... https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=1ZXVoQOTeM12RDk \o/
<TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: Is that oc v8?
<Azelphur> oc v8?
<diddledan> I just don't "get" overclocking. at all.
<TwistedLucidity> Well, if you double your speed you have the mean time to failure. :-P
<diddledan> presactamondo
<TwistedLucidity> But one can also run games better, faster simulations etc
<diddledan> but warranty
<TwistedLucidity> And some folks just like the challenge. Once you get up to high speeds, you have to worry about head dissapation etc
<diddledan> I'd rather know that my simulations and games aren't killing my pc
<TwistedLucidity> Meh, it's just like anything. Some people mod motorcycles, cars etc; other's dont'
<diddledan> <-- doesn't
<diddledan> :-p
<TwistedLucidity> The car isn't really modified (unless you count the roof rack).
<TwistedLucidity> The motorcycle...well...I have the pieces of paper/certification stamps that state each individual component is road legal....
<TwistedLucidity> And who leaves their GNU/Linux OS at the default settings? It's half the fun breaking it? Err, making it fit your needs?
<Azelphur> diddledan / TwistedLucidity I'd disagree on halving your mean time to failure
<Azelphur> If you're going for a small OC it won't affect the life at all I'd imagine
<Azelphur> with larger OCs like mine, it might, but I've mitigated most of that with sufficient cooling
<TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: The MTF was a joke.
<Azelphur> ah, it's also a common misconception
<Azelphur> diddledan: but yea the answer is essentially better performance for the price of a decent cooler
<Azelphur> and my decent cooler is a water cooling setup which I can keep between builds/sockets
<TwistedLucidity> Old fish tank, mineral oil....
<diddledan> lol
<Azelphur> doesn't actually work so well - great for a media center / silent PC though
<diddledan> don't forget the fishies
<TwistedLucidity> Anyhoo Azelphur, are you using ownCloud 8?
<Azelphur> oh, yes
<Azelphur> so that's what oc v8 was :)
<TwistedLucidity> Any good? Stable etc? I'm still on v7 y'see.
<diddledan> I saw one of those years ago on early youtube - he didn't take the fans off so they were sat submerged in oil, yet still spinning away
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: I'm a developer, so I'd say yea it's good/stable :P
 * TwistedLucidity makes note of where to send stroppy emails
<TwistedLucidity> ;-)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I worked on the new file browser integration in v8
<mapps> hm
<mapps> almost bed time:D
<mapps> done my days work:D
<TwistedLucidity> I mostly use it for syncing game saves between computers. A trivial task may be, but it works really well.
<TwistedLucidity> Apart from when I mess it up....
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: so most of the time then :P
<mapps> work at 365 and then translating Bhagdis speach from arabic to english
<mapps> :D
<Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: I mostly use it for sharing photos, which is a shame because its kinda bad at it
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Only during upgrade usually. For some reason some Kerbal stuff isn't propagating properly.
<Azelphur> ownCloud has no easy way to direct link to a file, always have to go through the silly middleman page which is actually bad for photos imo :p
<TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: I found the photo-app OK
<diddledan> Azelphur: you're the dev
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, don't think I've done it like that. Horses of courses, MediaGoblin or something might be better for that use case.
<Azelphur> diddledan: I'm a dev :)
<diddledan> exactly :-D
<TwistedLucidity> And...you clock like just works. I see the pic straight away.
<Azelphur> hehe
 * TwistedLucidity is confused, it's easy to do
<MartijnVdS> Hello from Margate :D
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: what brings you to these shores?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: oh hey, we should coffee or something xD
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: welcome to backwards-internet
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: excess days off :P
<MartijnVdS> feels like dialup indeed
 * diddledan mutters something presumably offensive about MartijnVdS' 500/500 connection
<Azelphur> backwards? bitch please, MartijnVdS if you come to the right area of beach I just set up my WiFi to cover a significant area
<TwistedLucidity> Margate? Haven't we built that wall yet? Summon the UKIP Shock Troops!
<Azelphur> 80mbit direct with enta.net, real fast ;)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: nice.. not near Oval Gardens I guess :)
<diddledan> Azelphur: exactly, compared to MartijnVdS ' that's dialup
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nah you're on the other side of Margate
<TwistedLucidity> I'm happy enough with 50mb down, but the 2mb up is kikking me
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: yeah and we're letting random dutch into the country too it seems
<TwistedLucidity> *killing
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Margate,+Kent+CT9+5NU,+UK/The+Oval+Gardens,+Queen's+Promenade,+Margate,+Kent+CT9+2GB,+United+Kingdom/@51.3884858,1.3635858,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x47d95256955d587d:0x400f789f59d7516d!2m2!1d1.3662595!2d51.3849268!1m5!1m1!1s0x47d953bd567d3ac3:0x2df0e97b8053e5b9!2m2!1d1.397878!2d51.391513!3e2 :)
<diddledan> that's badly encoded
<Azelphur> indeed lol
<diddledan> ' breaks my parser
<Azelphur> but yea, if you go to the beach where my dot is, you'll see an Azelphur-5ghz and Azelphur AP :P
<diddledan> the black dot?
<diddledan> like the scarlet pimpernail?
<Azelphur> diddledan: the postcode, not Oval Gardens.
<diddledan> Azelphur: nah, I'm being historically humorous
<Azelphur> oh :P
<MartijnVdS> first.. a shower... I've been driving/on a boat since 5am
<Azelphur> sure :)
<Azelphur> Lemme know if you want me to show you around Margate or whatever, there's not a whole lot here but we do have a pretty kickass sweet shop in town, a small art gallery if you're into that, there's some arcades too
<Azelphur> I can sneak out of work, perks of working at home lol
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Welcome to Blighty, please form a queue. :-)
<MartijnVdS> :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: thanks, but I think today will be "rest", mostly
<zmoylan-pi> foring a queue... by yourself... that sounds like fun
<Azelphur> hehe yea makes sense, let me know anyway if you feel like it later / another day :)
<Azelphur> I'm mostly lurking around at home working anyway
<MartijnVdS> ok
<Myrtti> gah, spotify is broken
<popey> wfm
<Myrtti> and you're on 1404?
<Myrtti> I get an error with libgcrypt11 being missing on 15.04, so had to resort to dirty tricksies
<popey> I'm on 15.10 :)
<davmor2> Myrtti: there is a fix let me find it for you
<Myrtti> already found it
<Myrtti> don't bother
<Myrtti> "had to resort to dirty tricksies"
<davmor2> https://community.spotify.com/t5/Help-Desktop-Linux-Mac-and/Spotify-app-and-Ubuntu-15-04/td-p/1121810
<davmor2> Myrtti: ah no worries
<ali1234> do they no longer have a web player?
<davmor2> works fine on upgrades just not fresh installs
<TwistedLucidity> Heh, that's like having to install some extar HAL stuff to get Flash working
<Myrtti> ali1234: doesn't have offline downloads
<Myrtti> or if it does, good for them?
<Myrtti> right, music is on, might put some coffee on and start cleaning the house
<popey> web player doesn't respond to media keys
<ali1234> i thought thats what web apps are for?
 * popey shrugs
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Who likes and understands static routes?
<bigcalm> My workstation has an iptables rule to send traffic for a given subnet to a VPN
<bigcalm> I want to allow traffic from another machine to be able to send to that VPN via my machine
<bigcalm> Do I need to tell my workstation to allow this?
<bigcalm> Or should it just happen?
<dutchie> you'll need to do a few thigns
<dutchie> enable packet forwarding on the hypervisor box and add a route to any other machines that need to send to the subnet
<bigcalm> What's the hypervisor box?
<dutchie> the one hosting the vm
<dutchie> (s)
<bigcalm> What VM?
<dutchie> er, brain full of vms from work
<dutchie> imagine i said "vpn gateway" instead of hypervisor
<ali1234> ugh why does everything you buy on ebay either smell like an ashtray or an explosion in an air freshner factory?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you probably need to configure your workstation to NAT the other traffic down the VPN
<bigcalm> Oh good point
<intrbiz> otherwise you might hit issues with routes which need to be on the VPN server, which you probably can't control
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you'll also need to turn on ipv4 forwarding
<bigcalm> Just found out about ipv4 forwarding and have enabled it
<intrbiz> bigcalm: shorewall is pretty easy for configuring that kinda stuff
<bigcalm> This is while waiting for the hosting company to give one of our client's machines a public ip address. Trying to route all traffic via my vpn connection. It's annoying me that this isn't as simple as I thought it would be
<bigcalm> I guess when the network connection is shared in windows, it's doing nat
<intrbiz> probably yes
<bigcalm> I should learn to do this properly as it'll be needed when the office server has a site to site vpn connection. I will want allow all office workers to send via the local server to that vpn
<intrbiz> if the other machine is not your workstation, then it'll need to know who to route to you etc
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you also need to be careful of triangular routing and other such gotchas
<bigcalm> Trying to work out if the office router will make a site to site connection with ipsec
<bigcalm> Have a feeling that it won't be able to
<awilkins_> Are the ubuntu repos being hammered or something?
<awilkins_> Hmm.
<awilkins_> Upgraded 14.10 to 15.04, for some reason my kernel has stayed at 3.16
<daftykins> how odd
<daftykins> did it even throw a 3.19 on?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-16
<mapwrk> Hi all
<mapwrk> Androis irc app
<mapwrk> Works qiire well :)
<daftykins> i use andchat
<mapwrk> Hm maybe il check it iut
<daftykins> heh i've grabbed a second laptop to use in the lounge as mine is playing the baseball stream on the TV :D
<mapwrk> You watch baseball's?
<daftykins> well, baseball yep
<mapwrk> Whixh game you on
<mapwrk> You use mlbtv?
<daftykins> yeah paid $19.99 for a month to try mlb.tv out
<daftykins> watching Yankes vs. Royals
<daftykins> :D
<mapwrk> Ah
<mapwrk> Gonna subscribe perm?
<daftykins> so expensive really :( although it does have some cool features, like being able to have two streams open in the same window
<daftykins> e.g. say someone hits a homerun, you hit a menu and can rewatch it at any time :D
<daftykins> plays it in a little corner frame
<mapwrk> Isnt it cheap for a seaaon sub
<daftykins> $100+
<daftykins> and that's only the PC version
<daftykins> you have to pay more if you want the cross platform / mobile device version
<mapwrk> Ah righr
<mapwrk> We got it at work
<mapwrk> Worka on cell tablet etc
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/ANNKE-Weatherproof-Megapixels-Hi-Resolution-Vandalproof/dp/B00NZWIZYS
<daftykins> this looks fun
<daftykins> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.softwarebakery.drivedroid&hl=en_GB
<daftykins> wow
<daftykins> boot ISOs from your android :>
<zmoylan-pi> i'd rather boot other oses on my android device
<zmoylan-pi> mostly as android sucks more and more as time goes by
<daftykins> ok
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<bashrc> attempting a Trisquel install on an old netbook
<intrbiz> morning
<bigcalm> Simplest way to share a VPN connection to a network?
<bigcalm> Sadly the office router doesn't know how to connect to a IPSec VPN, so it'll have to be a done on a headless box
<intrbiz> easiest way is to make your headless box the gateway / router for your office
<intrbiz> bigcalm: is this the windows only VPN too?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: The windows/mac only vpn client is how we individually use the VPN right now. But as the office has a static IP address, we will be able to get a site to site tunnel set-up
<directhex> well, i do similar
<directhex> i have a linux box connected to a remote endpoint via openvpn, serving up access ot that remote network to VMs and to eth2
<intrbiz> bigcalm: ah, ok
<bigcalm> Considering that we now have the managed switch, we'll be setting up some new networking fun in the office
<bigcalm> Keeping company and rented space connections seperated
<bigcalm> separated
<intrbiz> bigcalm: sure, remember you still need something to handle routing + dhcp
<bigcalm> There is a proliant micro server sitting in one of the networked cupboards that will become file storage (and a minecraft server) for the company
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> Maybe we turn the microserver over to being a router for the office, I don't know
<anglisc> anyone install and run ubuntu from sd card or usb>
<bigcalm> What routing packages are there that have a good web UI and can do ipsec?
<intrbiz> I've ran Linux from USB 2.0 sticks before, you'll need a good one, don't expect good perf
<anglisc> cheers
<anglisc> I think im going to give up on SD card and get usb 3 stick
<intrbiz> bigcalm: I just use stock openSUSE and shorewall
<intrbiz> bigcalm: if you wan pretty gui, then maybe smoothwall if that still exists
<bigcalm> I'd prefer to use Ubuntu ;)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: choice of distro is up to you
<bigcalm> Functional and not a pain in the arse to use is what I call a good UI :)
 * bigcalm goes to look at shorewall
<intrbiz> bigcalm: your rule set will be tiny, so I'd not be concerned about a UI myself
<bigcalm> Future proofing
<bigcalm> To an extent
<bigcalm> I'll play with my own proliant micro server at home
<intrbiz> bigcalm: how many NICs does it have?
<bigcalm> The micro servers have just 1 NIC. Do they need a 2nd?
<intrbiz> with only one, you'd need to VLAN trunk from your switch
<bigcalm> I think I'll be able to add a 2nd nic
<intrbiz> USB adapter will do for testing / POC
<intrbiz> temporary router I setup in last company, was a spare desktop with 6 USB ethernet adapters
<bigcalm> Nice
<intrbiz> quick and dirty, but it worked well, ended up being in use for a good few months
<intrbiz> bigcalm: if the box has a spare pci-e slot, you can pickup dual port gige cards for about Â£20 on ebay
<bigcalm> Gah. Too much for my non-network brain to cope with
<bigcalm> As it is, I don't know how we are going to configure the managed switch
<intrbiz> :)
<bigcalm> Maybe I should have brought it home to play with
<intrbiz> what make / model was it?
 * bigcalm ponders a trip into Shrewsbury
<bigcalm> http://www.buycom108.com/PDF/MSW-2402T_ds_english.pdf
<bigcalm> Haven't let found a manual
<intrbiz> time for a trip to the coffee shop me thinks
<bigcalm> cr?
<intrbiz_cr> bigcalm: chromebook
<bigcalm> Ah
<intrbiz_cr> bigcalm: did you go to shrewsbury?
<bigcalm> intrbiz_cr: na, not yet. Been pottering around at home
<bigcalm> Picked Hayley up from the airport at 4.30am this morning. Got home about 7am and went back to sleep
<bigcalm> It's an odd day
<bigcalm> We might go to a restaurant in Uffington this evening. If so, I'll pop into the office and pick up the switch then
<bigcalm> intrbiz_cr: have you been to the Corbet Arms in Uffington?
<intrbiz_cr> bigcalm: nope, not been there myself
<bigcalm> We went there a couple of months ago. I had the most wonderful ribeye steak.
<bigcalm> In fact, it's the only place I've had ribeye. And I want it again
<bigcalm> They also had 3 Salopian brews on tap
<bigcalm> Shropshire Gold, on of the Darwins and something else I forget
<intrbiz_cr> bigcalm: Oracle perchance?
<bigcalm> Quite possibly
<intrbiz_cr> bigcalm: I was impressed by the ale on-tap at the pub SLUG meet up at
<bigcalm> The Cock House Hotel?
<intrbiz_cr> bigcalm: yeh
<MartijnVdS> hellos
<penguin42> his
<brobostigon> evenings
<diddledan> dyson handheld has a "v6 digital motor" <-- marketing people have lost the plot
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> well sure, it's either off or on, right?
<intrbiz> they're actually quite complex switched reluctance motors, which quite alot of digital control
<intrbiz> s/which/with/
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-17
<penguin42> are you saying that advertising something as a reluctance motor might not sound that good?
<daftykins> XD makes it sound like it doesn't want to be cleaning for you
<daftykins> instead it wants to be free, where all the motors spin for nobody but themselves
<mapps> hi all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dutchie> morning
<brobostigon> mornind dutchie
<diddledan> howdo
<diddledan> sorry, daftykins, I went to bed just after my comment last night so you may have felt ignored :-/
<diddledan> so a digital motor is actually a reluctance motor, but what's the v6 all about?
<diddledan> it's got 6 cylindars in a V formation?
<diddledan> like my ca?
<diddledan> car*
<diddledan> do I need to feed it petroleum?
 * penguin42 assumes it's the one after v5
<Azelphur> https://twitter.com/ownClouders/status/598741430333480960 look ma I'm famous
<diddledan> \o/
 * diddledan will watch that in a bit
<penguin42> Azelphur: Excellent
<Azelphur> :)
<popey> yay
<diddledan> currently watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B392kwHg_Rs a discussion starter presentation about drupal.org's workflow for contributions
 * penguin42 wishes he understood why it cost ~Â£7M to build a 400m chunk of train track
<diddledan> 400metres, for 7M? that's an impressive overspend
<penguin42> diddledan: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15519605
<penguin42> (It just opened)
<penguin42> looking at the pictures it looks single track at that
<daftykins> diddledan: hehe np, yeah i just assumed the 6th version - though surely you'd not want that in marketing 'cause it sounds like it took that many tries to get it right
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> their advert says "only the handheld dyson uses a vee six digital motor"
<diddledan> it's like women's beauty products containing random marketing invented names
<diddledan> it's probably exactly the same as competitor-x just named differently with a trademark so only this company can include it because it's a trademark
<penguin42> diddledan: You mean things with enhanced serum of youngify and anti-wrinkelate?
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> includes elastane etc
<daftykins> and for some reason possesses the ability to say hello to Vera all the time, too
<diddledan> for elastic skin
<diddledan> vera's popular
<daftykins> that she is
<moreati> aÌ¶bÌ¶cÌ¶dÌ¶eÌ¶fÌ¶gÌ¶hÌ¶iÌ¶jÌ¶kÌ¶lÌ¶mÌ¶nÌ¶oÌ¶pÌ¶qÌ¶rÌ¶sÌ¶tÌ¶uÌ¶vÌ¶wÌ¶xÌ¶yÌ¶zÌ¶AÌ¶BÌ¶CÌ¶DÌ¶EÌ¶FÌ¶GÌ¶HÌ¶IÌ¶JÌ¶KÌ¶LÌ¶MÌ¶OÌ¶NÌ¶PÌ¶QÌ¶RÌ¶SÌ¶TÌ¶UÌ¶VÌ¶WÌ¶XÌ¶YÌ¶ZÌ¶ Ì¶ Ì¶0Ì¶1Ì¶2Ì¶3Ì¶4Ì¶5Ì¶6Ì¶7Ì¶8Ì¶9Ì¶ Ì¶)Ì¶!Ì¶"Ì¶Â£Ì¶$Ì¶%Ì¶^Ì¶&Ì¶*Ì¶(Ì¶
<moreati> sorry, I was using the text box to try something, didn't mean to press return
<shauno> that's kinda funkylookin
<moreati> playing with http://adamvarga.com/strike/
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> I'm guessing my client isn't displaying it right
<diddledan> I see: a_b_c.....
<daftykins> ok here in irssi
<shauno> it looks like strikethru on mine, but odd-looking because the strike is at a different height in each character
 * penguin42 sees it as a cross-throughed text
<moreati> The underline equivalent doesn't render very well for me, on 15.04/Unity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underline#Unicode There are gaps, and additionally differing height in Firefox aÌ²bÌ²cÌ²dÌ²eÌ²fÌ²gÌ²hÌ²iÌ²jÌ²kÌ²lÌ²mÌ²nÌ²oÌ²pÌ²qÌ²rÌ²sÌ²tÌ²uÌ²vÌ²wÌ²xÌ²yÌ²zÌ²0Ì²1Ì²2Ì²3Ì²4Ì²5Ì²6Ì²7Ì²8Ì²9Ì²
<diddledan> I see that as underscored but only on the second letter through to a space at the end
<diddledan> i.e. the first a isn't underscored but the rest is along with a trailing underscore
<shauno> oh that's odd.  I get gaps, and most where they should be, but the gap between p & q isn't lined
<penguin42> moreati: It's nutty what you can do with unicode É¥Ì¶bÌ¶nÌ¶oÌ¶É¹Ì¶É¥Ì¶ÊÌ¶ Ì¶ÊÌ¶ÉÌ¶nÌ¶É¹Ì¶ÊÌ¶sÌ¶ Ì¶uÌ¶ÊÌ¶oÌ¶pÌ¶ Ì¶ÇÌ¶pÌ¶Ä±Ì¶sÌ¶dÌ¶nÌ¶
<moreati> In Pidgin on 15.04 the strikethrough is correct, in Chrome and Firefox the strikethrough starts at the second character
<penguin42> moreati: Yeh, I see the same
<penguin42> moreati: And it's right in konsole but not terminator
<diddledan> again the strikethrough isn't shown on mine in favour of an _ between each character
<diddledan> the letters themselves are correctly upside-down and back-to-front
<moreati> correction: Pidgin has a gap in the strikethrough on wide characters e.g. w, M
<daftykins> i like letters
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> right, what to do today
<moreati> those upside down characters are actually glyphs from other alphabets/writing systems
 * diddledan gets an envelope and stuffs a piece of paper into it to send to daftykins 
<daftykins> diddledan: lets have a postal chess game!
<diddledan> eep
 * popey puts his chess pieces in an envelope
<daftykins> it's ok i haven't played in years so i'm gonna be rubbish
<daftykins> and even then you can probably count on one hand how many games i've played in my life :>
 * diddledan fires-up a computer player to play on his behalf
<shauno> I get http://i.imgur.com/Ke2bRuI.png  and http://i.imgur.com/JNJcHvB.png
<daftykins> hrmm that's a nice readable font
<shauno> the varying height of the strikethrough is a very strange effect
<diddledan> shauno: you're just wonky
<daftykins> popey: have you been enjoying GTA V on a new card, then?
<popey> no, i have been enjoying it on my existing card
<popey> after I asked about new cards here, nvidia gave me a driver update which included the automagic thing that sets the game up correctly
<diddledan> put a new card on the card :-p
<popey> it's now running flawlessly
<diddledan> just make sure you're ready to be carded
<daftykins> hrmm, my old Q6600 runs with it pretty poorly with my GTX 560 Ti so it can't look all that great?
<daftykins> -with
<popey> looks great to me
<daftykins> that's the odd thing about graphical and audio quality though
<diddledan> paraphrase: A paradigm shift is indistuingishable from a bad idea
<penguin42> what about a paradigm shift in bad ideas?
<penguin42> like the Orion space craft
<zmoylan-pi> a paradigm shift in bad ideas...  microsoft changing the ui to touch silliness version? :-)
<diddledan> onions in space is always a bad idea
<penguin42> yes, it would be cruel to put one in someones helmet
<zmoylan-pi> whereas in ants in their space suit is hilarious... :-)
<ali1234> moreati: firefox has terrible font rendering
<moreati> ali1234: I saw similar rendering errors in Chrome and Firefox
<moreati> *Chromium
<ali1234> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-45SP60v6kms/Uy7Cn_UeKAI/AAAAAAAACcw/DzaItkLgRSE/w426-h237/Screenshot%2B-%2B230314%2B-%2B11%253A16%253A35.png
<ali1234> dat h
<ali1234> h for high
<ali1234> i don't know what it is about text that is so hard
<ali1234> but it seems like nobody can do it right except apple and microsoft
<ali1234> and maybe gtk if you are lucky
<zmoylan-pi> adobe? :-D
<ali1234> never had to deal with pdf i take it...
<zmoylan-pi> i have... lots... never had much trouble once you've beaten them with a stick
<ali1234> challenge for you then. extract the text from this pdf and run it through google translate: http://scharmn.narod.ru/AVD/Gauss_15_2.pdf
<zmoylan-pi> been a while... ::ponders::
<diddledan> I've heard pdf is a frankenstein format with bits from here and bits from there and barely hodgepodged together
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of it's wackiness seems deliberate to prevent ebooks from been ripped to text
<zmoylan-pi> i've used various wackiness to break them open.  ghost script, text printer drivers, calibre
<ali1234> there is no drm here and the text is stored in the pdf as a series of codepoints
<ali1234> try "pdf2txt" for a start
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, it means you can get tiny random chunks out of the pdf.  i've seen that before too
<shauno> hm, fun.  osx falls apart on that one too
<zmoylan-pi> calibre is random text...
<shauno> mine doesn't look random.  it looks like it's just missing all the cyrilic characters
<ali1234> there's some english on the last page, can't even copy that
<shauno> oh, you're right.  I'm just getting tables, figures and equations, not body text at all
<ali1234> pdf2txt outputs a lot of "(cid:27)(cid:25)(cid:17)(cid:26)"
<shauno> and it's a complete dog to scroll, which is unusual on osx
<shauno> (the display engine is pdf-based like MacOS was postscript-based, which is really weird to explain, but ends up with above-average pdf support for free)
<ali1234> presumably you can print super high res screenshots as well :)
<shauno> heh, it seems not, they're just kicked out as png
<shauno> I have no idea to what extent it's still true either, but originally quartz was described as a pdf version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_PostScript
<penguin42> oh heck, not used that for a LONG time
<shauno> both of which strike me as an interesting mix of voodoo, witchcraft and lies
 * penguin42 remembers using Sun's NeWS X based display-postscript stuff
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if it's the mixed character sets that's making the normal tools misbehave
<shauno> I'm not sure they're stored as characters at all
<zmoylan-pi> i do have a few d&d pdfs that store everything as images.  they're... fun... :-)
<shauno> the characters don't hint properly if I scale off 100%
<shauno> like http://i.imgur.com/FXd2DMh.png
<shauno> Î±1 etc I can copy fine, and they render properly.  the body text blurs, and shouldn't
<ali1234> looks like each glyph is stored as one bitmap and then indexed
<shauno> hm.  so if you really wanted to, you could probably rip it out with a lookup table
<shauno> but if you're just trying to prove that pdf are perfectly capable of being a royal pain in the familyfriendly, it's surplus to requirement
<zmoylan-pi> bizarre, i got caibre to convert to epub instead of text and while first page looks good it goes rapidly downhill
<zmoylan-pi> if i had to get them as useable text with a 14page document it might be faster/less effort just to retype them.  not easy if you don't speak the language but not impossible.  if they're needed by a group you can split the work in such a way there's overlap to ensure accuracy
<ali1234> could just OCR it
<zmoylan-pi> that too
<zmoylan-pi> but i've used ocr and prefer a human making mistakes over ocr making mistakes.
<penguin42> very different type of mistakes
<zmoylan-pi> and i found it easier to spot the human mistakes as i made the same ones myself..
<shauno> I dunno.  in cyrillic, "the same ones myself" would be everything
<daftykins> hrmm debating something like this for my friends art gallery
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/ANNKE-Weatherproof-Megapixels-Hi-Resolution-Vandalproof/dp/B00NZWIZYS/
<daftykins> maplins selection seem to be a lot more expensive :D
<daftykins> and it looks like if they even ship here, they won't remove VAT :P
<penguin42> maplins more expensive? <shock>
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> you have to give me some lee-way there, we don't have them locally and i've only used them once to buy some fuses during Uni :P
<diddledan> OCR leads to weirdness
<diddledan> e.g an i transferred as an l
<diddledan> which makes it particularly difficult to work out swedish place names when they're transcribed via OCR
<diddledan> (I'm referring to the amazon kindle version of the girl with the dragon tats)
<diddledan> that's an A not an I
<diddledan> although dragon tats with an I would be interesting
<zmoylan-pi> spotting numbers amongst the text was always my favourite way to spot ocred text :-)
<daftykins> tsk tsk naughty diddledan
<daftykins> brings a whole new meaning to "Here be Dragons"
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> don't look them in the eye
<zmoylan-pi> it's the way it follows you around the room... :-P
<diddledan> don't you love how folk from around the indian region refer to GB as Gee-Bees rather than Gig or Gigs or Gigabytes
<diddledan> "I've got 500 Gee-Bees"
<diddledan> oh gee, bees!
<diddledan> don't you hate bees
<diddledan> they're fine when they're pollinating elsewhere but come near me and I run a mile
<diddledan> they shouldn't pollinate in public anyway
<diddledan> now, see, you all bring my randomness out if you stop talking because I just natter away
<diddledan> if you don't want me to be crazy, don't stop talking!
<daftykins> so rare anyone gets any notation correct :(
<diddledan> now as we refer to GB as "Gigs" does that mean TB is Tigs?
<zmoylan-pi> nah, in honour of the times we live in they are now terror bites
<diddledan> or Ters?
<diddledan> not to be confused with T'sers as in "It's Hers"
<foobarry> any russian speakers in here tonight?
<diddledan> niet
<foobarry> trying to deipher a label
<diddledan> does it have fake letters on it?
<daftykins> #ubuntu-ru ? :)
<foobarry> but does ubuntu-ru speak english?
<diddledan> the russians pretend to have a written language but I think they just make stuff up as they go along
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/6Btt40O.jpg
<diddledan> aah that's easy. 56 in russian is 56 in english too
<daftykins> =]
<foobarry> mapps seems to be in there
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> mapps is a weird one - he gallivants all over the place :-p
<foobarry> must be vodka related
<diddledan> I recall he disappeared to russia a few months ago
<diddledan> can't remember whether that was before or after he moved to the rock
<diddledan> (alcatraz? :-p)
<foobarry> gib
<daftykins> he went to the Ukraine i thought
<diddledan> oh, close
<diddledan> former USSR at least
<foobarry> i got this hat in 1990 in gum dept store
<daftykins> they had hats back then?
<diddledan> when were hats invented anywho?
<diddledan> new-fangled things for foobarry ?
<diddledan> :-p
<foobarry> a russian style hat
<mapps> secrets and lies is a cool show
<diddledan> itunes yey
<diddledan> ex machina just appeared in my library
<daftykins> ooh do tell me how it is
<daftykins> oh wait you did already didn't you 0o
<daftykins> or am imagining things again
<diddledan> no methinks that was smth else
<diddledan> I do recall you querying something a while back but I can't remember which film it was
<daftykins> huzzah! a shared conversation neither of us recalls
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-16
<diddledan> omg. I just discovered that the Tamagotchi pet thingies used a 6502 chip
<diddledan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> aren't fads so weird?
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> I only ever had one Tamagotchi. it died.
<daftykins> did no kind soul show you you could start over?
<diddledan> lol
<m0nkey_> diddledan, had to get this.. https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e718/
<m0nkey_> I also got this (for free) https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e72e/
<diddledan> lol, nice
<daftykins> hmm i'd fancy something other than black
<m0nkey_> I'm going to wear that t-shirt on our casual Friday
<m0nkey_> I did consider this
<m0nkey_> https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f3cd/
<m0nkey_> But it seems to be a tad passive aggressive which wouldn't go down well.
<daftykins> ah yes, i see what you mean
<m0nkey_> But that's how it feels sometimes
<daftykins> oh totally :>
<diddledan> my ding a ling don't ding
<daftykins> diddledan: surface pro 4 #2 has to go back to the doctor already!
<daftykins> they're really not having any luck with these things
<diddledan> damn, what did you do to it?
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> hey i'm wearing m0nkey_'s new shirt to them
<daftykins> i'm becoming great at packaging at this point
<daftykins> whoops killed irssi.
<daftykins> aaaand bed! have a good week all o/
<diddledan> nn
<mapito> hi
<MooDoo> morning al
<zmoylan-pi> be careful out there, it's a monday
<MooDoo> mondays suck....actually they are not too bad, but at the moment they suck
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 SuperMatt
<davmor2> MooDoo: Ow am ya me owld mucka
<MooDoo> davmor2: cracking mate.....you?
<davmor2> MooDoo: well it's Monday and I'm awake
<MooDoo> davmor2: you can do it :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: should be to bad today just had a crappy nights sleep which doesn't help :)
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> my sleep monitor says i got 3 hours sleep last night... not the most accurate i reckon 4ish
<SuperMatt> I wouldn't be able to function on that little sleep
<zmoylan-pi> it makes it very hard to read as you can't keep up your concentration for long
<SuperMatt> I actually feel very tired right now, and I must have got something close to 6 hours
<SuperMatt> having said that, I no recall the cat woke me up a few times last night
<zmoylan-pi> that's your cats job... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> having to get up at 3am to go downstairs and confiscate the marble the cat has found and is hitting in long hall from one end to the other bouncing of glass door...
<zmoylan-pi> and then an hour later having to confiscate her second marble...
<davmor2> so I re-watch the last witch hunter last night and during the credits it plays this music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaQbtXI41qY it is one of those slowed down remixes of a classic but thought you might like it here :)
<zmoylan-pi> that's not too shabby... :-)
<SuperMatt> zmoylan-pi: my cat has a problem with his food - to the point where he couldn't breath and had to be confiscated (willingly) by his original owners
<SuperMatt> now we've adopted him, he still have a lot of bad habbits
<SuperMatt> mostly waking me up to ask for food
<SuperMatt> though these days he's getting better
<zmoylan-pi> we have a bunch of feral kitties as well as 2 spoiled pampered moggies who all have their issues... :-)
<SuperMatt> http://imgur.com/gallery/OGN4dqI
<SuperMatt> this is his before and after
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Wear Purple for Peace Day! ð
<SuperMatt> love love peace peace
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it was wear purple and be roman emperor day?!
<SuperMatt> ssshhh, don't tell everyone your motives are slightly more megalomaniacal
 * zmoylan-pi tells the army to withdraw to their starting positions... :-P
<SuperMatt> good idea
<zmoylan-pi> and practice their singing out of key annoying tactics
<zmoylan-pi> will take them a while to get to the level of the egyptians.. :-P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yGJYryj-QY
<JamesTait> Wow, that's special.
<zmoylan-pi> you don't just not practice to be that bad... that takes effort... and in front of *putin*...
<JamesTait> It sounds like sampled airhorns.
<zmoylan-pi> one of the few nut jobs on the planet who you try not to tick off personally
<JamesTait> See https://youtu.be/mVHJ6OwTYWc for comparison.
<zmoylan-pi> oooh, that'd be a great sound for an alarm call...
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkOxeKA2WNE and then the real McCoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wA28BYbOME and then the real version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABd-cCcIxk
<davmor2> JamesTait: you might like this too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaQbtXI41qY
<davmor2> JamesTait: one of those slowed down classics
<JamesTait> Nah, I'm not feeling that.
<davmor2> JamesTait: yeah but in an hour or so you'll realise that the only song in you head it paint it black ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, already happened. ð
<davmor2> see
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: how ever it does now explain why he keeps flying fighter jets into turkey he's trying to find a way to pay back the Egyptians for their kindness ;)
<Switches> Afternoon all, I need more coffee..
<selinuxium> Hi peeps. I always need more coffee....
<Oli> Yeah "More coffee needed" could be the /topic here
<Switches> Should be yeah
<Oli>  /s/could/should
<Oli> Indeed. Lagging one cuppa behind, as usual.
<Switches> I'm about 3 mugs behind what I usually had by now lol
<Switches> Been playing to much with Unity 8
<Switches> It's delaying my coffee drinking!
<selinuxium__> Wow... my network is really stable today...
<selinuxium> Grr..
<Switches> welcome back
<davmor2> selinuxium: stable you say......My irony senses are tingling
<selinuxium> Indeed... Thinking of what server to bounce onto to stop this stupidity..
<Switches> lol timely exit
<selinuxium> Trying to ask a question with all this crap going on..
<selinuxium> That was a stale one falling off...
<davmor2> selinuxium: well if you will join a server call stupidity then you only have yourself to blame
<selinuxium> :P
<selinuxium> Starting to think the webchat on freenode will at least not kick me...
<selinuxium> If it happens again...
 * davmor2 kicks selinuxium instead
<davmor2> selinuxium: wonder why you are having issues
<selinuxium> Any roads... I have never gone about joining an Ubuntu box to an AD server before... I am aware there are multiple ways of doing so... Has anyone here done so?
<Myrtti> ping timeout is a ping timeout
<Myrtti> if the connection has a glitch, there isn't much to not make the the server kick the connection
<selinuxium> The connection here has been a bag of Sh*t since we changed provider...
<Myrtti> yeah :-(
<Switches> Sorry selinuxium never tried that either tbh
<selinuxium> I am going through the process of a full review... But this takes time..
<selinuxium> Basically, our dirty internet connection is bad... The rest of the production network is fine..
<selinuxium> Firewall throws internet traffic out via dirty connection on bad ADSL
<selinuxium> So unless I completely reconfigue the network here...
<selinuxium> Any one else played with AD integration?
<davmor2> selinuxium: I haven't but I believe that likewise is your friend in this
<davmor2> selinuxium: or just samba apparently https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/samba-ad-integration.html
<selinuxium> davmor2: Sorry, I am sure you were saying something...
<selinuxium> Actually resorted to webchat..
<davmor2> selinuxium: not really just saying I haven't but linked you to doing it in samba  there was an app called likewise too but that seems to of disappeared
<selinuxium> Thanks davmor2 . Yeah... I have seen a few ways, and that likewise has become something else...
<selinuxium> Maybe I should just do the smb thing instead..
<davmor2> selinuxium: http://www.unixmen.com/how-to-join-an-ubuntu-desktop-into-an-active-directory-domain/
<davmor2> selinuxium: powerbroker
<selinuxium> Cheers, I will take a look. :)
<ging> should the urls that apt-get pulls also work in a webbrowser? or does something go on with the browser header so the repository knows when it's hit by package manger rather than a webbrowser?
<MartijnVdS> ging: it should just work
<MartijnVdS> if you can get apt to display the full URLs ;)
<ging> MartijnVdS: they are coming from a proxy log
<ging> i am being told that something is wrong with my apt config and it's trying to request invalid urls
<ging> but it's a stanard apt setup and was find will it was moved to a new proxy
<ging> from what i can tell apt makes a request for Sources or Packages with no file extention and it gets it, but if you go in a browser you get a 404
<davmor2> ging: might be better to try wget over the browser maybe
<ging> wget is the same
<ging> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/trusty/universe/binary-amd64/Packages
<ging> that gets a 404
<ging> you need to add .gz or .bz2
<ging> but apt seems to request it without an extention and normally gets it
<ging> unless the proxy is stripping out the ext
<ging> is there a way to get apt to display the full url it's requesting?
<davmor2> ging: apt probably has the extension it wants built in so doesn't need to show it
<davmor2> ging: I did something similar to zsync iso's
<Myrtti> hm
<Myrtti> yay, my connection didn't die!
<Seeker`> \o/
<Switches> I need coffee.
<Switches> 174 twitters to follow for oscon.... no thanks thats way to much lol
<sebsebseb>  
<phablet> Hello hello!
 * Myrtti raises an eyebrow
<popey_> :D
<popey> ^ me on a tablet
<popey> wonder if it will time out
 * zmoylan-pi suspects popey needs more tablets... :-P
<popey> heh
 * m0nkey_ had to fix the dishwasher
<m0nkey_> Three shards of glass and bits of plastic taken out of the impeller. No more grinding sound.
<daftykins> m0nkey_: how serious?
<daftykins> erk
<m0nkey_> The glass found me first
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-17
<Switches> Man I'm getting to hate G+.. to many Arch fanbois lol
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> it's the new gentoo for Linux ricers!
<Switches> More like Gentoo for n00bs :p
<Switches> Na tbh I just hate that they all seem to post in G+ Ubuntu channel as soon as they see a small bug "oh switch to Arch"..
<Switches> As if Arch is the "cure all" for Linux problems..
<Switches> More coffee...
<daftykins> :)
<Switches> Rofl well thats a good laugh for the morning http://www.linuxtoday.com/security/selinux-vs-systemd-whats-safer-for-linux-servers.html
<MooDoo> morning all
<Switches> Morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Switches> Heya
<foobarry> any recommendations for a motion detecting wifi camera to monitor activity of the back of a house while builders are in?
<foobarry> (asking for a friend)
<diplo> Can't recommend any foobarry, but for a cheap solution could use a webcam and that software that has gone blank since I started typing
<diplo> Ah is it motion
<TwistedLucidity> Any webcam + ZoneAlarm
<diplo> ah that was the other one
<foobarry> found a bunch on amazon
<foobarry> although distubringly high number of reviewers have received discounts in exchange for complimentary reviews
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy World Telecommunications Day! ð  ð¡ ð°
<SuperMatt> I thought that was a bee, rather than a satellite
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: If it's a plug-and-play IP camera where you have to go to the company's service to use it (or similar); I wouldn't trust the damned thing.
<foobarry> there are some that integrate with synology NAS etc
<foobarry> and stream to your tablet
<SuperMatt> If I was to set up a camera system, I would certainly do it in my own house and have it upload images to my server (so if someone steals the cameras and upload server, I still have the info)
<nucc1> does syslog make any attempts to preserve message order?
<diddledan> morning
<SuperMatt> g'day
<diddledan> got an interview in a couple of minutes
<SuperMatt> good luck
<SuperMatt> I'm sure you'll do well
<diddledan> fingers crossed
<diddledan> and done
<Switches> Sure you ace'd it mate
<SuperMatt> what was it for?
<SuperMatt> I assume it was a phone interview?
<Myrtti> terribly convinient that on the day I want orange soda, the milkman comes with a celebratory sample bottle of Orangina because they're launching it as one of their available products. I approve, 5/7 would recommend
<diddledan> skype :-)
<diddledan> it was for a PHP backend dev role
<SuperMatt> I hope you get a face to face
<SuperMatt> (and subsequently the job)
<diddledan> thanks :-D
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/732616281925390336
<daftykins> brave :P
<diddledan> ooh, googacle - google might have caught someone from oracle on a contradiction
<zmoylan-pi> it's definitely duck season!! :-P
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/732621268436975617
<diddledan> gotta get the important things in court right
<diddledan> ooh, I finally found out what the new feature on the pizero is
<davmor2> diddledan: pfff mhall119 did his from a nexus4 in converged mode over a projector on unity8 with mir can't blag me with your wayland bragging ;)
<diddledan> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/17/raspberry_pi_zero_gains_a_camera_connector/
<diddledan> davmor2: nice
<diddledan> davmor2: is there video?
<diddledan> Iâd like to watch it if there is
<davmor2> diddledan: there is
<davmor2> diddledan: I'll try and find the link after I think it was Euro conference iirc
<sebsebseb> hi
<sebsebseb> hi
<daftykins> \o
 * diddledan uses powershell for something and hates himself at how sublime it was
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> I feel dirty
 * zmoylan-pi notes diddledan down as stage 1 linux user dabbling in powershell... suprised at how easy it is initally.
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: whatâs stage2?
 * zmoylan-pi waits till diddledan reaches stage 5 lying in fetal position weeping at time wasted...
<zmoylan-pi> stage 2 is using it for more and more stuff
<davmor2> diddledan: use bash on windows instead ;)
<diddledan> haha: https://twitter.com/xor/status/732636480951062528
<zmoylan-pi> favourite ms bug of the day... https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3053711
<diddledan> lmao
<daftykins> oops
<daftykins> i always call a user "User" when there isn't someone specific using the machine, too ;)
<daftykins> but ah well that's 8.1 :)
<zmoylan-pi> hot desking? then you'll a really beefy desktop... :-D
<zmoylan-pi> set up my first chromebook today, didn't hate... well apart from the keyboard, lack of options, lack of storage... :-P
<daftykins> nah just when it's an older spare system, or shared domestic PC
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> was it a nasty 1366x768 screen res type with 2GB RAM?
<zmoylan-pi> sounds about right
<diddledan> eww
<zmoylan-pi> slap linux on it and it'd be a lot better
<diddledan> big pixies ftl
<diddledan> small goats ftl, too
<diddledan> I need a huge goat
<zmoylan-pi> 2nd channel discussing goats that i've been in today...
<diddledan> ram
<davmor2> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk1c_rh2mc8
<diddledan> danke
<zmoylan-pi> still months to go till puck fair... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puck_Fair
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: not with the terrible specs :P
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: puck that!1!
<zmoylan-pi> i still have a single netbook running on 1gb of ram... it's grand for light use
<diddledan> I need many
<zmoylan-pi> more is better but sometimes simplicity minimalism can be non distracting :-)
<diddledan> my pc with 16giganuts refused to open a vm because there werenât enough nuts
 * zmoylan-pi loans diddledan a big stick to give it a damn good trashing
<daftykins> with what DE?
<daftykins> netbooks sucked on release, you can't do any modern web browsing with something like that
<zmoylan-pi> you can... if patient... :-)
<daftykins> hell to the no
<zmoylan-pi> i used the 1gb system till last year as my main system
<zmoylan-pi> just too slow now for everyday use but grand for out and about and light use. especially with 14 hour battery life
<zmoylan-pi> give me a console, python and vim to steer them by... :-)
<daftykins> i've only ever seen Linux trash systems battery, but i'd seen user after user in #ubuntu come in with what had to be kernel regressions for the graphics running so badly since 12.04
<diddledan> nicht gewinkelwaggen bitte
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> wrong root
<diddledan> room
<daftykins> Was ist gewinkelwaggen?
<diddledan> waggen mit deine winkel
<diddledan> behave now, popey is here
<daftykins> ach, ich verstehe Sie
<daftykins> hey i always behave!
<zmoylan-pi> gort, klatu barada niktu
<SuperEngineer> Seriously considering buying a OnePlus One as replacement for current [*very*] old phone.  I fancy cyanogenmod rather than google everywhere [but have never tried cyanogenmod].
<SuperEngineer> I hunted around the web for issues [I use EE do so don't care about the band 20 issue].  Any warnings to share?  Any best way to purchase from & receive in UK?  Any advice gratefully appreciated.
<daftykins> oneplus one is quite old now i would've thought
<daftykins> i bought a one and a two and sold them immediately :D
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: oh, that doesn't sound good :(  Why?
<daftykins> oh i only sold them for profit
<SuperEngineer> lol
<daftykins> i had those invites they did
<SuperEngineer> Idn't the invite bit over now?
<daftykins> yes
<SuperEngineer> *Isn't
<SuperEngineer> cool
<daftykins> but yeah that messy split of theirs between cyanogenmod and themselves, can you even get an up to date build of android via CM on them anymore o0
<SuperEngineer> getting worried noe
<diddledan> oh yeah, Iâd forgotten they forked
<daftykins> http://download.cyanogenmod.org/?device=bacon
<daftykins> i found the things huge XD
<diddledan> gotta love bacon
<SuperEngineer> [just checked Andriod version on old phone... 2.3.6!!!] I've had this phone too long methinks ;-)
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> issat gingerbread?
<SuperEngineer> methinks yes
<diddledan> which handset is it?
<diddledan> probably one of the oldest available
<zmoylan-pi> i still have my first android phone here atm.  shipped with donut i think :-)
<diddledan> still operational*
<diddledan> I had an HTC Magic way back when android was new
<SuperEngineer> the cheapy Samsung GT-S58301
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: ^
<zmoylan-pi> htc hero here with the annoying 'chin'
<DJones> diddledan: I've still got one of them floating round in a drawer
<diddledan> one of these - the first âsmartâ phone I ever owned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Magic
<DJones> diddledan: For its day,it was good, now, it'd be like comparing a 286 with an i7
<diddledan> yeah I loved it
<zmoylan-pi> i miss the symbian phones we had before 'smart' phones.  did what i wanted and had decent battery lives and software
 * zmoylan-pi waits till someone makes a decent rasp pi phone :-)
 * DJones hands  zmoylan-pi a razor, he'll need it waiting unless he wants to look like gandalf
<zmoylan-pi> more a v from order of the stick magic wielder...
<sebsebseb> hi
 * SuperEngineer still has 3 old Nokia dumb phones ... ! is still in use!]  really ought to recycly those 1 day
<sebsebseb> SuperEngineer: old Nokia phones you use for what?
 * zmoylan-pi pats my nokia asha 302 fondly
<zmoylan-pi> hammers, chisels... :-)
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: i've a 64GB one of these on my desk doing nothing i could sell for super cheap - http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_one_x+-4976.php
<SuperEngineer> the 1 still in use is supplied by firm [if they remeber even doing that] but is still in daily use
<daftykins> certainly not new mind you
 * brobostigon hugs his n800 and n900/
<SuperEngineer> that's the same firm who think I'm going to be using thweir top end Samsung tablet as a phone!
 * SuperEngineer imagines walking around holding a 9
<zmoylan-pi> and your entire 200 item shopping list written on your other hand... :-)
<SuperEngineer> (7 screen to ear... shouting "Hello... Can you hear me - I'm in library"]  ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> i had to explain that joke in another channel to the 'children' there :-)
<SuperEngineer> :D
<zmoylan-pi> red fox to grey squirrel, red fox to grey squirrel... :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: nokia 302: Found
<diddledan> then of course Nokia 404: Not Found
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_asha_302-4546.php
<diddledan> and Nokia 500: FAIL-WHALE
<SuperEngineer> Actually had the experiance once of being a passenger in car, using one the "early" mobile phones
<SuperEngineer> ...complete with power pack & main control hanging in casre on shoulder..
<zmoylan-pi> company i worked for in late 80s had a 'mobile' phone.  weighed a kilo about size and shape of vhs cassette
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: you mean one of these? https://www.thewhizcells.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/4_lethal-weapon.jpg
<SuperEngineer> ...
<daftykins> Danny Golver
<zmoylan-pi> battery life new measured in minutes
<diddledan> Glover*
<daftykins> ah man, peoples tendancy to typo the shortest things in images they share blows my mind
<SuperEngineer> looks frightenly familiar
<daftykins> sorry Govler :)
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: don't fancy the HTC then? :)
<sebsebseb> WOO party TIME!
<sebsebseb> I can watch my 15.10 upgrade the termian out put
<sebsebseb> upgrade to 16.04, oh yeah MAN how AWESOME
<sebsebseb> geek out/!
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: [would have been easier to write conversation on a sheet of cardboard & hold it to windscreen
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> termian
<diddledan> ?
<SuperEngineer> not yet investigated the HTC daftykins
<daftykins> i really wish that guy would cut the spam
<SuperEngineer> well - user list says troll gone now
<zmoylan-pi> i do have one system on 16.04 xubuntu and it's quite nippy
<SuperEngineer> [as an aside... I wondered why oven timer started beeping just now - answer: when one concentratrartes on both oven and IRC one might actually find one set timer to 30 seconds rather than 30 minutes! DOH!]
<SuperEngineer> *concentrates
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> weird i set my timer i use for cooking for 25 hours rather than 25 minutes earlier
<diddledan> awesome misspeelign
<daftykins> guaranteed cremation
<daftykins> if only shauno were still here to tell us the correct variant of murphy's law
<zmoylan-pi> nah, my nose backup detected it pre burning :-)
 * SuperEngineer sings "weeee - I'm not the only one, I'm not the only one, I'm not the only one"
<diddledan> I ruined a pizza the other day
<diddledan> put the oven on the wrong temperature
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: impressive!
<daftykins> diddledan: that's a true crime
<SuperEngineer> yeah, but you kept the fire brigade from getting bored, didn't you?
<SuperEngineer> [I wonder what their code is for "another pizza nistiming call boys"]
<zmoylan-pi> code carbon frisbee
<daftykins> code dentist o'clock ;)
<daftykins> *crunch*
 * zmoylan-pi pulls off nubit wearable for daily charging...
<DJones> Is that one of those HM Prison's tags? :)
<zmoylan-pi> i hope so as it has no idea were i am... :-P
<DJones> Ah, managed by G4S then
<zmoylan-pi> i have written software for g4s... yes... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> well... g4s ireland
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-18
<daftykins> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/
<daftykins> wellity wellity
<mappps> hi
<daftykins> mornin
<knightwise> famorning everyone
<daftykins> g'morn o/
<knightwise> hey daftykins , how are you dude
<daftykins> all good here cheers, seems some morning rain is on the cards! how's your day starting off?
<daftykins> mercy me, the week half over already
<zmoylan-pi> the day after tomorrow is friday...
<knightwise> True , time flies :) Had a looooong day yesterday so ..
<knightwise> Still a bit fuzzy
<daftykins> :D
<knightwise> Damn , annoying problem
<knightwise> i have a usb mouse connected to my 16.04
<daftykins> surely Linux can get a mouse right...
<daftykins> ;D
<knightwise> yeah
<knightwise> but it hangs from time to time
<knightwise> when i stop moving my mouse it seems to "freez"
<knightwise> then i have to wiggle it, it wakes up and then moves
<daftykins> hrmm
<knightwise> the touchpad is fine but it feels like the usb keyboard and mouse go into some kind of powersaving mode ?
<daftykins> maybe worth watching a "dmesg | tail" when it occurs?
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16485903/
<daftykins> hmm ok nothing recent, guess it doesn't flag up in there
<knightwise> might it be a power saving thing ?
<daftykins> could be, you still on that older kernel though?
<daftykins> such a new machine might benefit from the 4.5 or 4.6 mainline
<knightwise> erm . ill check
<knightwise> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16485903/
<knightwise> sorry
<knightwise> Linux Axanar 4.4.0-22-generic #39-Ubuntu SMP Thu May 5 16:53:32 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<MooDoo> morning all
<daftykins> !mainline
<lubotu3> The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<daftykins> probably worth trying a newer or wait for the more experienced folks to chime in
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Golf Day! ð  ð â³
 * brobostigon spots something about android pay on th google help site.
<zmoylan-pi> android pay coming to blighty?
<Myrtti> I sure hope so
<Myrtti> I'd want more health related apps on Android Wear, akin to what Apple Watch has
<brobostigon> well, i could just add my card, and install it from the play store.
<brobostigon> so it seems to work.
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh, 3 network doubling cost of sending pics... does anyone still send pics? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/05/18/googles-android-pay-launches-in-the-uk/
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IjgZGhHrYY
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> ooh android pay! I will be getting a nexus 5x next week, so I'll look forward to not having to take my wallet wout with me any more
<bigcalm> Bit of a package dependency problem on a DigitalOcean VM running Ubuntu 14.04. Any thoughts on how to resolve this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/16487275/
<JamesTait> davmor2, normally when it's me playing it's great balls of crud. ð
<diplo> I'm sure I had an issue like that recently bigcalm - I'd installed something maybe from a deb and then it needed deps and tried from apt and it failed, trying to remember how I got around it.. .wasn't that package though so may be something completely different
<bigcalm> I have 4 DO VMs, but this is the only one to exhibit the issue
<bigcalm> diplo: thanks :)
<bigcalm> Only extra repo I have is for New Relic. I don't recall installing any .deb s
<bigcalm> Is there a way to find out which packages came from a .deb rather than from a repo?
<diplo> I don't know, I could have done with knowing that myself :P
<knightwise> hey guys
<bigcalm> If need be, I'll destroy the VM and rebuild it. Though I'd prefer not to
<knightwise> Do any of you have an idea why my USB mouse and keyboard randomly 'freeze' ?
<knightwise> After i havent used the mouse for a while it just freezes when i want to move it again.. After a second or so it starts working again
<knightwise> its like the usb port is hibernating or somethin
<knightwise> running 16.04
<knightwise> and its not the case when i'm using the built in keyboard
<knightwise> and touchpad
<TwistedLucidity> Is it wirelss?
<knightwise> yes
<TwistedLucidity> That's the problem
<knightwise> ?
<knightwise> howso ?
 * TwistedLucidity is trying to remember
<zmoylan-pi> wireless or bt?
<TwistedLucidity> It's something about the power saving and I used to have this exact issue, which I fixed. Can I remember what I did? Can I bug..ry
<knightwise> wireless (not bt) .. i havent been able to pair a bt mouse to my Ubuntu machine for ages
<bigcalm> knightwise: two possibilities; 1. batteries need replacing (always takes me by surprise), 2. RF receiver is too far from the kb/mouse (I have the RF receiver for my mouse plugged into my wired kb))
<TwistedLucidity> There's also something about Linux powering off the reciever or something. I really should have written this down.....
<zmoylan-pi> seconded on the batteries thing, when my batteries are low it can be intermittent and then works ok
<knightwise> bigcalm: been there , tried that , doesnt seem to fix the prob
<knightwise> is it possible this happens because the receivers are hooked up to a usb hub ?
<Myrtti> yes
<bigcalm> Not all USB hubs are the same
 * knightwise plugs it in directly
<knightwise> I wasnt a problem with 14.04 though
<zmoylan-pi> one thing you could try is see if this behaviour is on other systms by plugging wireless kb and mouse into another system to see if it's software or hardware?
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: tried that its not keyboard related
<knightwise> having the same issue with a different setup at work too
<TwistedLucidity> autosuspend!
<TwistedLucidity> That was it
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Have a check of autosuspend.conf (forum post - https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=130479#p759762)
<TwistedLucidity> I know it's old, but worth a gander
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Also http://nlug.ml1.co.uk/2013/12/stop-your-wireless-mouse-cutting-out-when-on-batteries/4487
<knightwise> Believe it or not , it fixed it
<knightwise> plugging in the receiver directly and .. no problems anymore
<zmoylan-pi> make a note in personal database that hubs sometimes aren't 100%
<knightwise> Never trust a hub
<knightwise> never
<zmoylan-pi> i have had good hubs and i have had terrible hubs... even the good hubs i have 1-2 devices that are better not plugged into them
<foobarry> will windows 10 iso overwrite my linux partition?
<foobarry> historically windows never been friendly on installs
<knightwise> very risky !
<foobarry> win7->win10 fails with unknown error
<knightwise> Backupbackupbackup
<zmoylan-pi> i believe it's always install linux after windows has violated your system
<foobarry> c1900101-20017
<foobarry> all i need windows for is vmware client
<davmor2> foobarry: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Player
<foobarry> client sw
<foobarry> not player
<foobarry> but thx anyyway
<davmor2> foobarry: is it horizon client?
<foobarry> vsphere client
<foobarry> to manage esxi
<foobarry> vsphere web client isn't up to scartch yet
<foobarry> foudn an interesting suggestion to try after this latest attempt has failed http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/cant-upgrade-to-windows-10error-c1900101-20017/db5baceb-f6cf-4eaf-bb65-90ef5dbea50b
<foobarry> i literally get a stomach ache using windows
<foobarry> all those wasted gigs in /windows/XX folders
<foobarry> just chewing up space
<zmoylan-pi> i get angry after 2-3 minutes of using windows...
<TwistedLucidity> Clonezilla, install Windows 10, Live CD, grub-install /dev/sd<whatever> <- in *theory* should be OK.
<zmoylan-pi> theory...
<TwistedLucidity> If not, gparted, punch Windows in the face, restore Linux paritions, grub-install again
<zmoylan-pi> 2nds punching windows in the face... :-)
<knightwise> how about a groin-kick
<zmoylan-pi> you might need a gender bender dongle inserted before you try that
<knightwise> :)
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/MalZJsf
<foobarry> current state of my laptop
<zmoylan-pi> ouch :-(
<davmor2> nice
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh brand of nokia sold by ms to finnish ex nokia employees startup https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/18/nokia-returns-phone-market-microsoft-sells-brand-hmd-foxconn
<diddledan> morning
<foobarry> had to use a usb install in the end
<foobarry> wow windows10 looks like kde4
<diddledan> foobarry: the year of linux on the desktop is now renamed âthe year of  âbash on ubuntu on windowsââ :-p
<diddledan> lol: https://www.grahamcluley.com/2016/05/care-taking-screenshots-blame-virus/
<diddledan> wrong link
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity/status/732949181942267904
<diddledan> ^^^ that one
<SuperMatt> I still don't understand how I have a mortgage
<foobarry> i know i'm late to this game windows10 is the same old suck with a new shell
<foobarry> uterrly sucky
<foobarry> driver issues, upgrade issues, cannot even do touchpad scroll. i've never heard the fan in linux
<diddledan> linux doesnât know how to run the fan :-p
<TwistedLucidity> I've had all those problems in Linux. For the GPU, I had to boot back into Window to gain control and then boot into Linux again
<TwistedLucidity> My T430 will regularly run an 80+Â°C doing normal tasks
<Switches> "Windows 10 is the all singing, all dancing, best thing since sliced bread." /facepalm It's not as bad as some make it out to be, but it aint as good as other choices :p
<Switches> Find it good they are at oscon with Bash on Windows though
<diddledan> WSL is closed-source. theyâre probably at OSCON talking about ASP.NET Core
<TwistedLucidity> Well, it's Ubuntu on Windows; innit?
<Switches> Well it is and it aint, it's Ubuntu Bash on Windows, not actually Ubuntu as a whole
<diddledan> no, it is full-fat ubuntu on windows using the windows kernel instead of linux
<diddledan> apt-get works for any arbitrary package
<Switches> For a lot of sys admins its quite a big deal
<TwistedLucidity> Yes, because it means they can stop stabbing themselves in the eyes with a rusty fork...I mean...use PowerShell...
<Switches> TwistedLucidity: Yep :)
<foobarry> my linux isntall had better be there when i reboot
<diddledan> powershell literally powers hell
<TwistedLucidity> I've made use of CygWin for quite some time. Works well enough for my needs.
<davmor2> diddledan: hey no fair the tears of the developers forced to use it powers hell ;)
<diddledan> lol @ googacle commentator: https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/732953047769325569
<Switches> diddledan This whole oracle vs google thing has been quite entertaining, just hope they reach the right decision.. having them say API can be copyrighted is already one big mess
<TwistedLucidity> I don't get how an API can *possibly* be subject to copyright. If that's the case, then entire idustries will fall apart.
<TwistedLucidity> "Your pattern carparts are illegal under copyright" etc etc
<Switches> Yeah.. but thats basically what the courts have said, this fight now is over whether it was "fair use" by google
<TwistedLucidity> Copying the code *behind* the API is nawty-nawty (assuming the license doesn't allow it)
<TwistedLucidity> Switches: I know that they've said, but that doens't make them right
 * TwistedLucidity has as simplistic "Ronseal" view of the world
<Switches> TwistedLucidity: Your preaching to the choir there mate, having an API be anything that you can copyright is down right stupidity
<Switches> Makes me wish Oracle would just fall off the planet..
<diddledan> they own mysql though :-(
<TwistedLucidity> MariaDB
<diddledan> makes me wonder if they would start going after mariadb if they get the precedent in this case
<TwistedLucidity> Also, Postgres is better
 * TwistedLucidity awaits hissy fit :-P
<Switches> diddledan: Maybe who knows with Oracle
<diddledan> it wouldnât surprise me if they went after redhat for rhel even though their unbreakable linux is actually a fork
<TwistedLucidity> I'm stunned VirtualBox is still a thing. Great software, works well, doesn't nag/upsell you...why haven't Oracle killed it?
<diddledan> they did a good job on killing solaris
<Switches> diddledan: Yeah didn't they ever
<Switches> I really hope this doesn't go Oracles way lol
<Switches> Although seems this google atty is making a dogs dinner of it..
<diddledan> goooooooooogley hiho hiho itâs off to work we go starts in 10 mins
<diddledan> googleio**
<Switches> rofl
<diddledan> bad timing with the court battle
<Switches> Yeah a little, but I guess they can't really put it off..
<Seeker`> https://twitter.com/NHSWiltshireCCG/status/732867106354532352 so tempted to reply with "thanks for reminding me, I'll do my best to be obese by then so I can join in. Off to get some donuts"
<diddledan> as a fattie, I approve
<Switches> I approve of the "get some donuts"
<Switches> Which would go really well with my coffee...
<diddledan> oh, looks like Iâm an hour-out on my googley timing
<diddledan> 1hour2mins
<diddledan> donuts ftw
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/xor/status/732964320846323712
<diddledan> haha
<Switches> Yeah just read it..
<diddledan> "xor: Civjan's testimony was about how "devastated" Java's sales were, but his LinkedIn said they were doing great the whole time. Hmm."
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> this is an awesome livetweeted case
<Switches> Yep
<diddledan> netflix just launched: https://fast.com
<Switches> This should be fun, they got the lead from Java Mobile now
<Switches> off to get more coffee, anyone want one?
<Seeker`> diddledan: 130Mbps
<diddledan> Seeker`: only perverts need that many bits :-p
<Seeker`> it's my work connection
 * diddledan hides his virgin top-tier
<diddledan> Seeker`: is it symmetric? that would be totes unfair! :-D
<Seeker`> I have no idea. I suspect not.
<Switches> Meh only 63 here *shakes fist at virginmedia*
<diddledan> KHAAAAN!
<diddledan> no wait, thatâs a different film
<Switches> ohhh seems were into the bullet firing on GNU now
<zmoylan-pi> at least under cameron you might be able to get money back when your internet goes down... so by the sound of it if everyone signs up to virginmedia they could make a few bob :-)
<Switches> lol
<Switches> Actually virgin has that covered by the "*upto" statements they like plastering all over the packages now :p
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I do everytime virgin goes down
<Switches> I don't have virgin go down that much tbh, for me its a hardware issue
<Switches> And I also misread zmoylan-pi >.< Thought he was talking about the whole crap with the speed on virgin now being like a yoyo, till i re-read it
<Seeker`> Switches: they're talking about refunds for service loss I think, and defining 10Mbit as a minimum
<Seeker`> so "upto" doesn't exempt them from having to be a) working and b) above 10mbit
<Switches> Ahh
<DJones> Virgin are one the worst spammers I've come across, they keep ringing me up. sending letters, getting salespeople to knock at the door offering me massive increases in broadband speed....When they do, I just ask how long it'll take them to cable my area, at which point their jaw drops and they start mumbling
<zmoylan-pi> you willen have faster downloads... :-)
<DJones> Not with Virgin, download speed would be the same as with BT/Sky/another provider over copper cable
<DJones> I actually get a faster download speed over 4G via 3, than I do over my hard wired connection
<zmoylan-pi> until enough muppets sign up for and use 4g on regular basis...
<DJones> It'll still be faster than Virgin
<zmoylan-pi> not when the spotty 12yo next door discovers porn...
<davmor2> DJones: from the caravan I get 20Mb down and 10Mb up I was gobsmacked :)
<DJones> With no Virgin cable, yep, it'll still be faster
<davmor2> DJones: that is 4g on 3 on a weak signal :)
<DJones> davmor2: With 4G on 3 I get around 45Mb down on 3 in the middle of Wales in the caravan
<davmor2> DJones: I can recommend the Huawei b513
<davmor2> b315 even
<zmoylan-pi> and not the i can't believe it's not the huawei b153? :-)
<davmor2> DJones: this is a poor signal area
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: nice :)
<DJones> davmor2: Sites we go on have wifi anyway,if that doesn't work, my tabl;et has a 4G 3 sim inserted
<DJones> Thats if we get away again, good job my wife can drive with the van on the back
<davmor2> DJones: the site we use does it has a 125Kbs down and 25Kbs up and only on the lower part of the site and the seasonal pitches are on the upper part :)
<DJones> ah right
<zmoylan-pi> camping isn't the roughing it i remember from the 1970s.... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> you'd be lucky to pick up am radio in some places
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: man this was our last tent http://www.m.mycamp-let.com/trailertents/premium/
<davmor2> We pick up dab no problems :)
<zmoylan-pi> i think ours was a wwii army surplus jobbie
<zmoylan-pi> and cooking on my dads brass hand pumped parafin stove
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: now we are slumming it in one of these http://www.tenbytourers.co.uk/2015_Adria_Altea_Trent_552_UP/2015_Adria_Altea_Trent_552_UP.php
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: Camping is what Caravaners do before they get old enough to realise how much easier a caravan is
<davmor2> DJones: no Camping is what I did till the arthritis made it too painful to put up the tent anymore :)
<zmoylan-pi> pop up tents davmor2 :-)
<zmoylan-pi> and don't bother folding them when you leave :-D
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I have a wife who I actually like to take on breaks with me :P
<DJones> davmor2: Yep, pretty muchthe same thing, although for us, it involves firbromylgia & now epilepsy
<zmoylan-pi> no 5 star all mod cons tents then? :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: that's what we had watch the video :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no slumming it in a caravan way way easier :)
<zmoylan-pi> i see... yurts... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> camping with yak cheese...
<davmor2> DJones: what van do you have?
<davmor2> MooDoo: poaches his relatives I know :)
<zmoylan-pi> and owning a caravan means you're annoying jeremy clarkson so that's a positive for me :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: meh I still go faster than the Lorries so I don't care :)
<DJones> davmor2: Abbey 480Se, fixed bed, 4 berth
<davmor2> DJones: see same mentality too idle to make a bed up every night ;)
<DJones> Yep
<DJones> we had a 2 berth previously, but it was too much makingthe bed up each night
<DJones> Now we just get in bed and wait for the dog to jump up
<davmor2> mind you if we knew we were going to get a seasonal pitch we would possibly of gone for one of these instead http://www.tenbytourers.co.uk/2015_Adria_Adora_Isonzo_613_DT/2015_Adria_Adora_Isonzo_613_DT.php  top of our cars tow weight but 8ft wide so even more room than that altea
<DJones> Thats nice
<davmor2> DJones: won something like 17 awards from best layout to best van for 2015
<DJones> When I changed my car, I picked one that would pull a good sized van, but was also reasonably priced and economical, ended up with a Insignia Estate, then bought the new van last year, haven't got a single complaint with either of them
<zmoylan-pi> so... not a father ted caravan then... https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Ffatherted.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2FCaravan.png&f=1
<DJones> Apart from being told I can't drive for the next 12-18 months, just glad my wife doesn't have any problems towing the van
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no the length of that one is potentially the width of the adria
 * zmoylan-pi remembers a mate who's family had a foldup caravan in the 80s. do they still do those?
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: they do popups and folding I don't think they do the big build out ones anymore though
<SuperEngineer> I posted the following on the Ubuntu Podcast thingy on Telegram... zero response. Surely, here on the 'proper channel' there might be a brain working?!
<SuperEngineer> I'm currently trying [& failing] to find the Ubuntu distro archive.  I really fancy reinstalling Ubuntu Netbook Remix on a netbook [as a dual booted but non  internet connected thingy once available updates grabbed].  Any suggestions?
<davmor2> DJones, zmoylan-pi: we liked these but you need like a tank to tow them :)
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly2fy7JG3MM
<davmor2> link helps
<Switches> SuperEngineer: Afaik the netbook was rolled into the desktop with unity, unless you're looking for an old release which you might find on http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/
<SuperEngineer> Switches: you're right... just been pointed to it by Wimpy... but it doesn't list netbook remix  ;-(
<SuperEngineer> but thanks
<zmoylan-pi> because no on makes netbooks anymore?
<Switches> Hmm the netbook remix would prob be in a folder pre-11.04 i would guess
<SuperEngineer> probably -but some of us keep old hardware ;_)
<zmoylan-pi> that's very impressive davmor2
<Switches> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/maverick/ this lists it on the page
 * zmoylan-pi clutches my ancient hp netbook. 1gb 320gb hd, 14 hour battery life :-)
<SuperEngineer> checking now
<Switches> but after 11.04 afaik they just were using the same desktop image for desktop and netbook
<Switches> Atleast i think it was 11.04.. not 100% though
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/9.10/ lists them
<SuperEngineer> ...I was looking under 10.04... I am now currently downloading the image  :D
<SuperEngineer> well done folks
<Switches> :) great
<davmor2> I remember testing it
<zmoylan-pi> 10.04... last ubuntu pre unity... wasn't it?
<Switches> I never bothered with the netbook one tbh
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yeap
<Switches> zmoylan-pi: Yeah think so
 * davmor2 started testing images in 6.06 
<Switches> davmor2: Well first i think i actually "tested" was Edgy Eft.. just after Warty Warthog >.>
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: I think you'll find the final Netbook remix was the start of "a Unity"
<davmor2> Switches: breezy and dapper were before edgy
<davmor2> dapper was 6.06
<Switches> Yeah I used them, but never really got into the testing side of it
<Switches> I was more a "it works, i'll leave it alone now"
<Switches> rather than "oh new shinies, lets break it"
<davmor2> Switches: oh see I mean actually testing it as in QA :)
<Switches> Yeah, I started doing that with Edgy, before then I was just a "user" I guess. Before Edgy I was primarily on Gentoo and Slack
 * SuperEngineer hugs distros that fit on a CD :-D
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: Ubuntu fits on a mini-cd you just need to pick the right version :P
<SuperEngineer> oooo picky
<Switches> lol
<zmoylan-pi> back then i kept puppy linux on business card cd :-)
<m6lpi> I used to install from floppy
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: one is only 54MB
<Switches> Listening to Linux Unplugged is rather amusing. BTRFS  vs ZFS
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: admittedly you need a good network connection but it technically is only 54MB :D
<SuperEngineer> what's a network connection?????
<SuperEngineer> [surely - not a UK thingy]
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: hahahahaha
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: and look it installs all the versions of Ubuntu too http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ :D  Okay it might be cheating a bit :)
<SuperEngineer> Cheating is no good!  I've never cheated!
<SuperEngineer>   Welll except for
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: we haven't got all day for the except fors ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...that one time, & then that other time ... & then that..  [bugger, I cheat!]
<SuperEngineer> [but on software , not women!]
<SuperEngineer> davmor2: half a day?
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: 24 minutes on my connection
<SuperEngineer> lol
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: and the biggest part of that is actually the install not the download
<SuperEngineer> hmmmm
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: it is the Debian Installer so it installs each package 1 at a time in order takes a while :)
<SuperEngineer> hope it counts them up for you just to be annoying... it could say "go get a beer, may take a wee while, but "wee as in good" while"
<SuperEngineer> "Speeds must be at least 10 Mbits/secound"  [Queen's Speech for opening of parliament]
<SuperEngineer> Well, perhaps motorways and t'internets can be confusing to a prime minister ;-)
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if there is a brand of modem with a royal warrant... :-)
<Switches> I doubt it
<davmor2> there could be a royal warranted computer again the raspberry pi :)
<zmoylan-pi> you'll pry her zx spectrum out her cold dead fingers... :-P
<Switches> You know what I really want to find now... an ubuntu that has no systemd, no btrfs, no pulseaudio and runs the latest kernel lol *goes off to dream land*
<daftykins> why the systemd hate? surely when a change is so big and widespread it should be accepted and dealt with
<Switches> Tbh I was a unix user before I got into Linux, so I guess I'm just old fashioned. I really dislike that systemd wants to be into everything.
<zmoylan-pi> daftykins: i have a pitchfork AND a torch so i am prepared! :-)
<Switches> lol
<Switches> Is the pitchfork for systemd or against it ? lol
<davmor2> Switches: BSDubuntu
<Switches> Yeah I know, I guess if i want to stay with a Linux kernel and Ubuntu I need to settle for systemd, only other choice is to nuke ubuntu and install Funtoo
<Switches> or maybe that Devuan although I don't know anyone using it at the mo
<davmor2> Switches: systemd is ubiquitous now on 99.4% of linux installs you always get the crazies ;)
<zmoylan-pi> linux wouldn't exist _without_ the crazies :-P
<Switches> rofl thats true
<SuperEngineer> time to do nosebag [some call it noshing or eating apparently!]...    bfn
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<Switches> I guess I just see systemd as a pain in the backside, but then I was always a supporter of things like Upstart, OpenRC and having a choice on what I use, so I guess I'm also a little one sided.
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yeah there are nut jobs, crazies and then gentoo users and finally LFS users the last 2 are the crazies that enjoy pain
<zmoylan-pi> systemd just feels /wrong/ to me.
<Switches> Same here zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> feels like when elop was appointed in nokia...
<Switches> <-- Uses Gentoo/Funtoo and has used LFS in the past... guess that says it all
<davmor2> see I'm right :D
<Switches> rofl yep
 * zmoylan-pi scatters pieces of lego on the floor and walks barefoot :-)
<Switches> xD
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/bobbyllew/status/733031447024574464
<zmoylan-pi> remakes... does anyone think it will be better than the original?
<zmoylan-pi> for that matter has anyone ever seen a remake better than an original movie?
<ali1234> the fly
<ali1234> the blob
<ali1234> invasion of the body snatchers
<ali1234> that's about it though
<ali1234> oh wait... psycho?
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> i think some people prefer the remake of the thing
<zmoylan-pi> odd that they're all sci fi horror though
<ali1234> oh wait the thing is the one i was thinking of
<ali1234> yes, it is odd, that
<zmoylan-pi> or just that they're better due to better effects...
<ali1234> the originals are all "meh" B movies
<ali1234> the remakes are all done by highly respectacted and ground breaking directors
<zmoylan-pi> they're classic b movies
<ali1234> well, except psycho
<ali1234> they're only classics at this point because of the remakes
<zmoylan-pi> i think not. 1-2 of the movies listed i would pick up on dvd if i saw them.  the original, not the remakes
<ali1234> the original the fly?
<zmoylan-pi> yeah
<ali1234> but... no...
<zmoylan-pi> i loved watching sci fi b movies as a kid.  they used to have them on all the time
<ali1234> fair enough
<diddledan> just started watching the keynote from googley hiho (from earlier this eve).. theyâre outdoors!
<diddledan> I wonder what theyâd have done if it was raining
<zmoylan-pi> and so many of them (like invasion of the body snatchers) were anti commie propagande funny
<ali1234> all zombie movies are anti-socialism
<ali1234> and all vampire movies are anti-capitalist
<ali1234> that's my theory anyway
<diddledan> so what about zombies AND vampires movies?
<zmoylan-pi> no vampire movies are a whole other thing...
<ali1234> vampire movies are clearly about the struggle of the proletariat against the literally blood-sucking aristocracy
<ali1234> the classic ones i mean
<ali1234> not twilight
<zmoylan-pi> we don't mention twilight when we mention vampire movies ali1234 :-P
<diddledan> twiglet
<ali1234> apparently scarface is a remake
<zmoylan-pi> little shop of horrors... another remake better than the original... i have both on dvd and have to agree... http://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/10-movie-remakes-that-are-much-better-than-the-original.html/?a=viewall
<diddledan> ich bin ein fatty
<daftykins> that would be dich auf Deutsch
<m0nkey_> Quoi? Je ne parle pas allemand.
<daftykins> Boo French
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-19
<diddledan> oh boy: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/733094957448237056
<diddledan> I like how they use the first three adapters even though they clearly had a ps2 port available next to the PSU
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> it didn't seem to be an exercise in functionality
<knightwise> Morningn peeps
<daftykins> g'morn \o
<daftykins> another plane lost :|
<daftykins> https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ms804/#9c0b766
<diplo> Morning all
<daftykins> \o
<Switches> Morning
<daftykins> \o
<Switches> Heya daftykins, hows you?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> heyoooo o/
<Switches> hey brobostigon
<daftykins> all good here thanks Switches! pottering about today :) and thee?
<Switches> Yeah not bad mate, just doing my usual, reading and drinking coffee :)
<brobostigon> morning daftykins and Switches
<daftykins> same here! although my coffee seems to have evaporated
<Switches> :o time for a refill then bud
<daftykins> >:)
<foobarry> wow dell completly disabled one finger scrolling on  their drivers for windows
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> like the edge scroll zones?
<daftykins> maybe some generic drivers'd work if it is lacking in the settings, but it's all about two finger!
<foobarry> two finger suck
<foobarry> especially their implementation
<foobarry> it keeps bouncing back up the screen again
<daftykins> that's pretty common now, mmm
<daftykins> touchpad on my XPS13 is amazing under windows 10 :D
<daftykins> finally they catch up to Apple standard (i'm sad to admit)
<foobarry> oh wow
<foobarry> there's a hidden utility
<daftykins> :O
<foobarry> instead of delltouchpad.exe (the default tray icon)
<foobarry> there exists a delltpad.exe with the one finger stuff
<foobarry> one a need to know basis!
<daftykins> to do Windows right, you need a nice clean install without this crap
<daftykins> smells like a factory install to me :)
<foobarry> i did that i think
<foobarry> but installed some dell drivers to make all the ! go away
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> must be contaminated! :>
<davmor2> Morning mortals
<SuperMatt> morning oh immortal god of the underworld, davmor2
<SuperMatt> we offer un to you this sacrifice of foobarry
 * daftykins helps prepare the sacrifice
<davmor2> SuperMatt: hahahaha
<foobarry> ..................)o)
<SuperMatt> YOU SHALL NOT FLEE THE WRATH OF THE GREAT ONE
<davmor2> foobarry: see how they pick on you
<foobarry> please believe me oh great tux, i have not used windows as my main desktop for 15 years
<davmor2> so the youtube scope on the phone list a new star trek tv series hmmmmmmmmm
<foobarry> i notice some sour grapes on behalf of omgubntun that they didn't get a review copy of the m10 tablet
<daftykins> indeedy! CBS trying again
<foobarry> keep carping on about bad reviews constantly
<daftykins> the best i could manage was an eyebrow raise in the style of Spock
<davmor2> daftykins: hahaha
<SuperMatt> foobarry: my guess is that they weren't sent a copy because the OEM were relying on a favourable review from them no matter what
<SuperMatt> Joey clearly saw through that
<foobarry> however clearly sour graps
<foobarry> no need to search out bad reviews
<foobarry> and keep mentining it
<foobarry> clearly won't be considered next time
<SuperMatt> to be honest, it looks like a dreadful device, so it should be panned
<davmor2> SuperMatt: more the fact that they were limited number of devices, and as an insider he already has two devices that are his not just on loan
<foobarry> awww no bash on win10 for me
<daftykins> y'gotta be running the latest insider preview
<foobarry> meh
<davmor2> foobarry: don't you need the developer version or something
<daftykins> that too
<foobarry> what daftykins said
<foobarry> i have build 10586
<daftykins> good ol' stock
<foobarry> i only wanted windows for 2 apps
<foobarry> and 1 is n/a :(
<davmor2> so this is the song stuck in my head this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgZkm1xWPE
<foobarry> is it the frankfurter song?
<daftykins> apps? o0
<davmor2> foobarry: no
<daftykins> not available in my country
<daftykins> WAT.
<davmor2> daftykins: vmware vsphere client and Ubuntu on windows
<foobarry> or whats that song with the fat kid rama aaaa duma eee eee
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9mojl_MBDg
<foobarry> thats the one
<daftykins> nooooo :P
<daftykins> i just read vsphere for Windows is getting canned, it's all going HTML5 only
<davmor2> foobarry: ^ what he said also I noticed they said there was a browser version
<foobarry> need it until web client is up to scratch
<foobarry> the workflow on the web client is unbelievably sucky
<daftykins> i remember playing with vmware server 1.x -> 2.0 and cringing at the web admin
<foobarry> everything hidden under related items
<foobarry> also keyboard shortcuts are the way to go in the client
<daftykins> mmm that would be a pain to go without
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Devilâs Food Cake Day! ð  ð
<daftykins> ooh my that sounds like a good day
<JamesTait> Yes, I definitely approve.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh9OzTL0iQc
<foobarry> numa numa guy made an updated version. it was terrible
<SuperMatt> It wasn't great to begin with
<daftykins> wow, in my head i thought you guys were talking about Non Uniform Memory Architecture
<SuperMatt> if only
<SuperMatt> instead we were discussing the scrapping of the bottom of the popular culture barrel
<daftykins> seeing that large chap sing certainly makes my memory non-uniform
<Myrtti> reminder: change your LinkedIn passwords
<zmoylan-pi> won't matter, linked in will still find you... :-P
<daftykins> seems so! anyone that had an account in 2012 anyway
<Myrtti> https://motherboard.vice.com/read/another-day-another-hack-117-million-linkedin-emails-and-password
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Change you password 3 years ago
<Myrtti> still doesn't hurt to change it again...
<knightwise> afternoon peepz
<SuperMatt> not yet
<SuperMatt> someone's a little premature
 * knightwise is not in your timezone ! 
<SuperMatt> now!
<knightwise> Stickler !
<zmoylan-pi> maybe they're east of greenwich and calculating local time on sundial?
<knightwise> Me has a sundail wristwatch
<knightwise> I call it the "whatever-i-want-it-to-be-o'clock"
<zmoylan-pi> i always liked the personal sundials from animated around the world in 80 days
<foobarry> Myrtti: is there a list we can check of linkedin?
<knightwise> ?  list ,
<foobarry> leaked usernames
<daftykins> like searchable data he means
<foobarry> yeah
<daftykins> so you can find out if you got nobbled
<TwistedLucidity> Probably safest to assume "Yes" and change it
 * TwistedLucidity hates LinkedIn
 * knightwise lives by it 
<Myrtti> foobarry: I always just assume mine got leaked and change it anyway instead of possibly leaking more information
<foobarry> emails and encrypted passwords leaked
<foobarry> As this data set also originates from the 2012 hack, these passwords are encrypted in the same way â with âno saltâ â meaning they are more easily cracked
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Too much spam from them, all I ever got was annoyance from recruiters; so I stripped all the data I could. Can't see the value in it.
<foobarry> so if i changed it after the 2012 hack i'm ok i guess
<knightwise> i'm a freelance consultant so .. its like the red light district for me
<TwistedLucidity> Ahhh....that would be different.
<daftykins> took me a while to get that comparison XD
<knightwise> daftykins: :) your innocence is charming
<TwistedLucidity> What I never understood about recruiters is why they ignore your preferences "Permi job, Central belt Scotlan"...can get repeated call with "Would you like a 3 month contract in London?" err...no
<daftykins> knightwise: nah i was just thinking "does knightwise mean as a customer or..."
<zmoylan-pi> the commute would be interesting...
<knightwise> daftykins: i'm a freelance consultant
<daftykins> ja but the red light bit
<daftykins> it's ok, all understood now :)
<knightwise> https://www.linkedin.com/in/hendriksjo
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: No one could pay me enough to go back to London. Horrible place.
<zmoylan-pi> the fun the excitement and that's just finding a place to live that you can afford...
<TwistedLucidity> Barcelona? Yeah, that I would do in a heartbeat. But no hablo Espanol (or Catalan)
<TwistedLucidity> Sorry, missed the Ã± there
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i'm popping down again through Malaga for a brief work trip
<daftykins> gotta set up a fancy WiMAX internet connection down there, very novel territory
<knightwise> daftykins: that is cool
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Fancy a trip North? Internet up there is shocking.
<daftykins> hehe, ah this is only as a consumer really. is BT's investment really low up where you are, or are you outside their net?
<TwistedLucidity> Outside I think, it's Telefonica-Movistar
<daftykins> could be pretty cool to be such a provider, although wireless tech is probably a bit scary to work with regularly
<daftykins> oh North Spain you meant?
<TwistedLucidity> Aye
<daftykins> my mistake, was thinking England/Scotland
<TwistedLucidity> That's a different problem.
 * TwistedLucidity glowers at VirginMedia
<daftykins> amusingly my clients apparently lucky to have a wired landline, but they've had the ADSL service in there be down for weeks at a time O_O everything else in the area is this funky WiMAX from masts up on the hills
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, that's pretty much my experience as well. Pay for 20Mb, get 1Mb if yer lucky.
<daftykins> utilities seem a bit third world in general really in Spain to me :S
<daftykins> i remember reading about the limited power consumption that Lester Haines fella from theregister.co.uk had in a place down there, and sure enough my client had the same situation - they couldn't run the AC at the same time as a hairdryer in their apartment before the current refurb :D
<TwistedLucidity> I can see the fibre getting laid but there appears to be (skirting close to stereotype here) a certain lack of work ethic
<TwistedLucidity> In all things
<TwistedLucidity> I paid for urgent shipping of an item - it took a month to get from Spain to the UK.
<daftykins> :/
<TwistedLucidity> What is well set-up though it health care. Probably from all the conniptions people have trying to get a contractor to do their job!
<daftykins> good to know! looked like there could be some good downhill mountain biking down there
<TwistedLucidity> The ambulance drivers are all rally-cross competitors I think. They'll hit the forest trails and simply not slow down.
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> come to think of it, i did say on my last trip that the southern spain look reminded me of colin mcrae rally gaming
<knightwise> http://quidsup.net/tutorials/?p=retrogame anyone tried this yet ?
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: I've used RetroPi, which is another Emulation Station based thing
<knightwise> TwistedLucidity: i tried that on the pi
<knightwise> but now i would like to play some classics on the xps
<zmoylan-pi> define classics, pong, 8bit, 16bit, nintendo?
<knightwise> nintendo
<knightwise> some galaga and super mario
<TwistedLucidity> I seem to remember reading that the Kodi-devs were looking at adding better support for emulators etc
<knightwise> when I can play super mario on the xps with a gamepad i'm happy :)
 * zmoylan-pi was just looking for some old program for my psion and found my zx spectrum emulator for it... :-)
<daftykins> it's a-me, maaaaario
<knightwise> I just love that stuff
<knightwise> I have a bunch of roms i found for my retropi project
<knightwise> Outrun ,
<knightwise> green berret
<knightwise> shinobi :)
<knightwise> (c64 classics)
<zmoylan-pi> i keep tau ceti, jet pac, bomb jack around
<knightwise> https://archive.org/details/internetarcade
<foobarry> i got a peter rabbit 50p coin
<foobarry> apparently quite rare
<zmoylan-pi> rare rabbit.... mmmmm
<Myrtti> foobarry: so do I!
<Myrtti> paid Â£55 for it tho
<foobarry> i was usinght eself service and noticed it.
<foobarry> oh you got the colour one?
<Myrtti> yeah
<foobarry> they are worth load now
<Myrtti> tempted by the others but I think we'll pass
<foobarry> value will drop
<TwistedLucidity> I have an old G-Shock is is now (apparently) eye-wateringly expensive
<TwistedLucidity> Scared to wear the blasted thing!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> Myrtti:Â£250+ ?
<Myrtti> Â£15 more like
<Myrtti> judging from eBay
<foobarry> i got the non colour one and wanted to keep it so had to put a Â£10 note in the machine to pay the last 10p of my breakfast
<foobarry> Myrtti: i see a lot of colour ones going for 250-350Â£
<foobarry> the non colour is more like Â£2
<Myrtti> oh no, yes, 250
<foobarry> completed sales too
<foobarry> gonna reconsider?
<Myrtti> what, selling it?
<foobarry> yeah
<daftykins> that's quite the chunk of change
<Myrtti> oh no. It's a present for a baby not born yet
<foobarry> aww
<daftykins> value in things that don't serve a purpose mystifies me
<foobarry> i.e "collectors edition" anything
<Myrtti> daftykins: yeah we did spend a good amount of time considering would it be a good idea to buy it or not, but it's quite small in comparison to Toby jugs or Royal Doulton stuff
<Myrtti> it's just nice to give something that's got a bit of value and a stamp of their birth year
<Myrtti> I've got the Queen's Diamond Jubilee stamp on my engagement ring just for the sentimental value of having it
<foobarry> my wife loves BPotter
<daftykins> Barry Potter? :)
<foobarry> and my kids watch it all the time (the older bbc animated series with niamh cusack)
<daftykins> "Greek state-run TV is confirming that debris from the missing EgyptAir plane has been found 230 nautical miles west of the Mediterranean island of Crete"
<daftykins> erk
<zmoylan-pi> horrible but at least this time they found the plane...
<daftykins> indeed
<zmoylan-pi> and eventually most likely will find what caused it to come down
<diplo> Anyone used https://taiga.io ?
<SuperMatt> daftykins: it's not been confirmed to be debris from the plane
<SuperMatt> but it's the best bet right now
<daftykins> yeah, i'm on one of those live update feeds so it changes constantly
<SuperMatt> I'm following the guardian, because they're very good at relaying up to date information, but keeping it within the context of what is actually known
<daftykins> that's where i pasted it from as it goes, perhaps the summaries are better than the live
<TwistedLucidity> Am I wrong in thinking there's spate a spate of Airbuses have unplanned ground interfaces of late?
<TwistedLucidity> "been a spate"
<diddledan> unplanned ground interface. I like that description.
<SuperMatt> I don't think there is a particular manufacturer to blame
<daftykins> even if there were, it'd be more a point at the airline than the plane i'd think
<zmoylan-pi> or the sub contractor who repaired it
<SuperMatt> The chance of it being terrorism is relatively high though. It's a Egyption flight, travelling from France, two things which have been targetted by (isis|isil|daesh) a lot recently
<zmoylan-pi> the altitude rules out a missile as it takes a bit to get missile up there so would be spotted more than likely
<SuperMatt> sure, unlikely a missile
<SuperMatt> so it could be something in the hold, or a human intervention
<zmoylan-pi> far more likely
<SuperMatt> though I would have thought CDG would have better security than the Egyptian airports
<TwistedLucidity> Lots on people potential sympathetic towards terrorists flight-side. They revoked access for 60 in the previous security review
<SuperMatt> yeah, I was thinking that could be a possibility
<SuperMatt> I don't imagine baggage handlers are well paid, and it wouldn't take much for one to be able to stow something on a plane
<TwistedLucidity> This is why we need more education and to stop supporting despots
<SuperMatt> JC4PM!
<TwistedLucidity> Julius Ceaser 4 Prime Minister?
<bashrc> SuperMatt: how many planes crash due to aliens, and how many from other causes. The probability is that aliens were not involved.
<SuperMatt> I'm only talking terrorism at the moment because that's the direction experts appear to be looking right now
<bashrc> s/aliens/terrorists
<foobarry> http://www.relativelyinteresting.com/heres-what-the-bigfoot-patterson-gimlin-film-looks-like-when-its-stabilized/
<SuperMatt> I know what you're saying. I'm a little sceptical about it being terrorists, but the chance is still higher than it would have been for any other flight, just due to the Paris/Egypt connection - it's a big coincidence if not terrorism
<Seeker`> I think it's probably better to wait until there are some facts, rather than going "it's probably terrorism"
<SuperMatt> again, not what I said. I said the chance is *relatively higher* than normal due to some of the circumstances
<diddledan> oracle are out of time
<diddledan> do they have a buzzer to tell them when to put their pens down?
<diddledan> that's it till Monday when they'll do the closing arguments
<Switches> Yep, Oracle are just sitting rubbing their hands now lol
<brmbrmcar> do it
<brmbrmcar> oh, unintended speech
<phablet> hi, can anyone help i cant install any apps on my bq m10 as my ubuntu one login keeps failing with network error
<MooDoo> evening all
<MooDoo> :)
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<popey> hello
<bittin_> hi
 * zmoylan-pi is currently trying to remember were i stashed my surplus wireless keyboards... tripping over them 3 months ago, now i need them and no where to be found
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-20
<MooDoo> morning all
<daftykins> g'morn o/
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> bloomin google blacklisting one of my sites as malware :(
<daftykins> :O i did a job for someone recently who had that done, he said it was a right drama to get that reversed
<MooDoo> daftykins: I wouldn't be too bothered, but it's only a html site with a php contact form :(
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> easy to check nothing got modified then?
<daftykins> just a false positive from them?
<MooDoo> yeah it's an easy to check site only about 10 pages of html nothing there apart from what i'd expect....
<MooDoo> I could understand if it was my wordpress site, but that's secure up to the eyeballs [I hope]
<daftykins> buy diddledan a beer and he'll check ;D
<diddledan> wait, what?
<daftykins> hi :)
<diddledan> ello
<daftykins> you're awake!
<diddledan> no I'm not!
<diddledan> I'm a figment
<diddledan> been watching the first season of game of thrones (finally)
<daftykins> oy
<Switches> Morning
<daftykins> \o
<MooDoo> :)
<Switches> Oh Libreboot is now GNU.. what a surprise lol
<daftykins> surprise?
<Switches> I was kinda being sarcastic, been expecting that since they started the thing
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> i could tell the sarcasm but not why :)
<Switches> I was surprised when they started it that it wasn't a GNU project
<Switches> I need more coffee.
<Switches> It's way to early and I've only had 3 mugs.. I'm being slow
<zmoylan-pi> next time put coffee into the mugs...
<knightwise> Switches: just chew the beans
<diddledan> mmm toffee
<diddledan> wait, was that the right choice?
<Switches> Toffee works aswell
<zmoylan-pi> coffee toffee... an idea whose time has come
<Switches> lol
<zmoylan-pi> it'd come in slabs like scottish toffee with a hammer so you can break off a piece and suck the caffine goodness you need
<Switches> Sounds like my kind of sweet
<SuperMatt> morning twerkers
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> do we need to offer up a sacrifice again today?
<daftykins> never hurts! well... any of us :)
<daftykins> but who to pick, mmm
<SuperMatt> JamesTait shall be the sacrifice
<daftykins> very well
<daftykins> you grab his legs!
<SuperMatt> ewww, they're sticky
<daftykins> now, are we going to stab or burn today?
<foobarry> people at the station were giving out juice in return for hugs
<daftykins> hmm
<foobarry> hug was nice but feeling really sick after few mouthfuls of juice
<daftykins> it was a trap!
<foobarry> i've eaten mints and had chewing gum , wont go away
<daftykins> was the fella cuddly? :)
<foobarry> some sweet dutch girl
<SuperMatt> I don't trust anyone that've giving away free hugs, or accepting hugs as currency
<foobarry> thought it was a trap to make people feel happy
<foobarry> but i keep doing cucumber burps
<foobarry> too much goodness obviously
<diddledan> what did I just walk into?
<daftykins> diddledan: the huggening
<MooDoo> I'm scared
 * diddledan hugs everyone
<daftykins> oof stubble
<daftykins> hey no stroking the hair!
<diddledan> lol
<MooDoo> https://www.paulmellors.net/trap/
<davmor2> MooDoo: you shouldn't call it trap it is too obvious call it cake instead ;)
<diddledan> the cake is a lie!
<davmor2> diddledan: exactly but people will still follow a link to cake on the off chance it isn't ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Bike to Work Day! ð  ð² ð´ ðµ
 * diddledan will gladly bike to work. from here. to here.
<daftykins> <Weebl's Stuff> including here... and here... and here.
<daftykins> :D
 * JamesTait biked to work, via school.
<daftykins> hands up if you remember that one!
<JamesTait> No, but I remember Magical Trevor.
<diddledan> with his leathery leathery whip
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQz-CZvkY8k and better still https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GugsCdLHm-Q
 * JamesTait deploys the leathery leathery whip on davmor2 
<MooDoo> i want a go i want a go
<JamesTait> I think you have to be sacrificed to be allowed.
<davmor2> JamesTait, MooDoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIEVqFB4WUo I can play this all day but I don't know why you'd want that
<diddledan> haha. just saw in the credits of game of thrones a citation for "Accountant (IRL)", which I'm assuming means they've got one online and another in-real-life
<zmoylan-pi> or irish accountant as it's shot in northern ireland...
<diddledan> surely that'ld be IE
<zmoylan-pi> well tis and tisn't...
<daftykins> browses with IE
 * zmoylan-pi smacks daftykins to help him adjust quicker to ie...
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> hey i already drink Guinness
<zmoylan-pi> then a smack in the face is probably nowt when that numbs you...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Switches> Heya brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi Switches
<darknite> hello
<darknite> whats up
<zmoylan-pi> friday \o/
<MooDoo> sky?
<darknite> holiday
<knightwise> morning
<daftykins> \o
<knightwise> hey daftykins
<knightwise> hows tricks
<daftykins> all good here thanks :) snagged a free mystery game from green man gaming last night, got Bridge Constructor :O
<daftykins> seems quite fun
<daftykins> how goes it for you?
<diddledan> daftykins: you're a magician?
 * diddledan watches daftykins' tricks
<diddledan> the intro sequence to game of thrones is slightly different each episode
<daftykins> nothing new ;)
<daftykins> https://www.greenmangaming.com/mystery-bundles/ <-- for reference
<daftykins> i'm not normally a "buy useless tat on steam" type, but yeah... triple pack for Â£4
<daftykins> oof, egypt air plane debris found
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Confirmed this time?
<Myrtti> depends on who's confirmation you deem good enough
<daftykins> ^
<TwistedLucidity> Well, not Egypt's
<Seeker`> The Egyptian Air Force is claiming there is plane debris this time
<diddledan> yeah, but who trust the Egyptian air force? :-p
<diddledan> might as well be America. and we all know they blew stuff up for fun
<diddledan> blow*
<diddledan> too soon?
<daftykins> just a tad
<MooDoo> yeah too soon
<SuperMatt> There have been reports of bodies too
<SuperMatt> but those are unconfirmed
<diddledan> dang
<SuperMatt> what I want to know is, why aren't the blackboxes transmitting data in real time?
<diddledan> SuperMatt: yeah, they should send live telemetry via the satlink IMO
<SuperMatt> we'd have a much better idea of what happens if we had livesteaming black boxes. it doesn't need to be everything, but it'd be nice if we can know that an engine stopped, or whatever
<daftykins> maybe it's money, maybe it's an age of the tech thing
<daftykins> i feel like it was answered with MH370 but i can't remember what was said
<SuperMatt> apparently cost is the most prohibitive factor
<SuperMatt> the air lines don't want anything affecting their bottom line
<SuperMatt> though arguments are that the cost of search and rescue outweighs the cost of a live streaming black box
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: I doubt the airlines pay those
<daftykins> i was wondering that
<TwistedLucidity> I can imagine the whole "real time" ping thing from aircraft could get complex
<SuperMatt> oh indeed
<SuperMatt> I'm certainly not the right person to say whether or not a live update system should go ahead, but I think after this, another high profile case, the idea needs to be tabled again
<daftykins> ugh telcos that refuse to talk to you when you're not the bill payer
<daftykins> you messed up a deal for everyone on the whole island, please just fix it :P
<foobarry> are you the only person looking after the island today daftykins ?
<SuperMatt> git pull
<SuperMatt> oops
 * Seeker` hands SuperMatt some files
<SuperMatt> thanks
<SuperMatt> I don't know what to do with them now though
<foobarry> git stash
<daftykins> foobarry: hehe yeah the others are having a nap ;)
<knightwise> eeevenin
<Switches> heya knightwise
<knightwise> converting ISO images to mp4 with handbrake
<knightwise> its been a while
<daftykins> :) storage is cheap, i'd leave them as-is!
<Switches> lol
<zmoylan-pi> carve them in stone for backups...
<knightwise> plex won"t mount them that way I think
<daftykins> Kodi plays ISOs direct, i would hope Plex can :>
<daftykins> i did debate converting a clients 950+ DVD collection by ripping out the main movie PGC (program chain) from the VOBs leaving all the extra feature / titles cruft behind, but it's just not worth my time
<zmoylan-pi> i burned out the dvd drive of my mac mini ripping my dvd collection over 18 months
<knightwise> I'll probably cue them up in handbrake overnight
<knightwise> its only about 14 episodes
<knightwise> i can do that for the misses
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: hehe
<zmoylan-pi> i got my moneies worth out of that mac... :-)
<knightwise> true
<zmoylan-pi> ripping on average 3 discs per day
<knightwise> had one too , loved the mac mini
<knightwise> last time i did have some serious cooling issues because ubuntu wouldnt monitor the temperature right and activate the fans
<knightwise> ended up allmost cooking the poor thing
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> i had to mess with a clients iMac that i put an SSD in to handle the fan situation, no more HDD with the temp sensor
<knightwise> my god that show is tacky :)
<knightwise> ripping beverly hills 90210 , season 2
<Switches> ouch
<daftykins> back when you could open them with a mere suction cup to the glass and removal of the LCD and... *whistle*
<daftykins> heh
<knightwise> that IS impressive to do isnt it
<daftykins> sure was some work
<daftykins> that 21" first generation i3 thing is still going strong though!
<zmoylan-pi> doing better than steve jobs...
<diddledan> too soon?
<daftykins> quite amazing it's been 5 years already
<diddledan> serials?
<diddledan> (shauno would get that question - it refers to one of his stories)
<daftykins> if shauno were here ;_;
<knightwise> i put elementary on my wifes old imac
<knightwise> she loved it
<diddledan> knightwise: imac == hair-removal
<knightwise> ?
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> nah that's inmac i believe
<daftykins> nope immac
<daftykins> ;]
<diddledan> in Britain they only had one M but they've since renamed to Veet it seems
<daftykins> ah har
<knightwise> veet i know
<zmoylan-pi> and vot you don't :-P
<knightwise> :)
<knightwise> gonna couchsurf
<knightwise> pc is at it encoding 8 episodes. it will have its hands full for the evening
<daftykins> http://www.aftvnews.com/german-fire-tv-owners-receiving-kodi-survey-from-amazon/
<daftykins> ooh dear
<daftykins> looks like amazon are trying to gauge if FireTV owners are being naughty with their devices
<zmoylan-pi> sending all the file names back to hq?
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> amazon booted Kodi (the artist formerly known as XBMC) from their app store, claiming it enables piracy... yet they continue to allow the sale via marketplace users of android devices loaded with copyright infringing streaming services
<daftykins> this survey, if real, could be a precursor to blocking the apps from running on the devices at all - just as their last OS update banned a particular app which let you set your device to auto boot into Kodi / anything else instead of amazon's default home app
<davmor2> daftykins: shhh don't point out the obvious
<daftykins> well i don't think everyone follows what they are or do.
<zmoylan-pi> oh for the good old days when your only option was to thump the top of the telly...
 * diddledan punches the top of zmoylan-pi
<daftykins> it's ok, you can install Kodi on zmoylan-pi too!
 * zmoylan-pi fiddles with diddledan vertical hold...
 * diddledan scrolls
 * daftykins puts the two of them into a game of Pong, teletext style
<zmoylan-pi> *BOOP*                                                       *
<diddledan> BEEP
<zmoylan-pi> *BOOP* *BEEP*
<diddledan> BZZT
<Switches> Who let R2D2 in?!
<diddledan> :-)
<Switches> Meh seems my mem upgrade is gonna have to wait my CPU cooler sounds like the bearing is failing :(
<Switches> Time to get the water cooler i guess
<zmoylan-pi> 51c in india... need more than a fan...
<Switches> Well tbh my CPU cooler is erm.. around 7 or 8 years old, so its been expected for a while xD
<Switches> I'm just one of those people who wont change stuff till it totally stops working
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> tis but a scratch!
<Switches> Yep
<daftykins> i was watching a video on the lengths nvidia go to, to diagnose faults in produced chips
<daftykins> amazing stuff
<Switches> Yeah they spend a lot of money on it
<zmoylan-pi> which they can pass on to the customer...
<Switches> But don't
<daftykins> they don't have to, 10 million quid of machinery can save them billions when fixing fab designs etc.
<Switches> Tbh they don't pass that cost onto the customer, they just keep the prices high no matter what :p
<Switches> So many "click bait" headlines about the processor Google have made
<Switches> "Intel should be worried".. not at all googles is built for something totally different.. its not like its going to be a "general" server or desktop chip >.<
<daftykins> imagine if journalism had some standards :D
<zmoylan-pi> the sun would be stored on toilet roll aisle
<Switches> Would actually be nice to read and would stop me facepalming so much
<daftykins> Switches: we can at least work on reducing the pain, here i'll send you an oven mitt for Christmas! that'll soften the blows
<Switches> rofl, thanks
<zmoylan-pi> don't forget to sew the horse shoe in... :-P
<Switches> Ohh Mir can now handle OpenGL proper and not just OpenGL ES
<Switches> zmoylan-pi: Thats how it feels already with some of the headlines
<foobarry> anyone tried cloudready chromebook OS for non chromebook laptops?
<Switches> Can't say I have, sorry foobarry
<daftykins> i'm still not convinced on the castrated internet experience for tech folk
<daftykins> chromebook for your average joe? sure
<zmoylan-pi> i'll never use a chromebook for personal use with chromeos on it so it must be good :-)
<daftykins> tinfoil hat firmly on for google products?
<Switches> rofl
<zmoylan-pi> kinda, not sold on the whole trust the cloud silliness
 * diddledan trusts rainclouds
<zmoylan-pi> rainclouds i understand, i'm irish, they're out to get me... :-D
 * Switches Trusts clouds more than he trusts people
<daftykins> Rick Astley + Nirvana mashup! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN75im_us4k
<daftykins> still can't get over how perfectly this goes
<popey> greetings from Austin airport free wifi
<Switches> Ohhh nice, heya popey
<popey> hows it going?
<Switches> Not bad mate, how was the trip?
<popey> great, tiring
<Switches> I bet
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-21
<Guest48003> morning all
<MooDoo> morning even
<zmoylan-pi> morning Guest48003
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> daftykins: that rick astley + nirvana is awesome
<diddledan> from yesterday
<knightwise> hey foobarry
<knightwise> hows it hangin
<CoolKevin> wow this latest version is seriously bad
<CoolKevin> hardly anything works
<Switches> Hmm had very few problems with it myself on any of my machines. Everything bar AMD is no problem (AMD isn't 16.04s fault though)
<CoolKevin> I cannot get any flash player to work
<CoolKevin> that is only 1 problem, I do not have the typing skills to list them all
<Switches> Well for the Flash stuff I know "sudo apt install flashplugin-installer" works from terminal as I'm watching youtube with it at the mo
<CoolKevin> ok thank you I will try that
<Switches> For chromium it should should be erm "sudo apt install pepperflashplugin-nonfree"
<daftykins> diddledan: :D sure is
<Switches> If for some reason the installer one doesn't work try "sudo apt install flashplugin-nonfree" they are both the same but one may throw an error as the meta package changed
<CoolKevin> I do not have a terminal box
<daftykins> are you talking about ubuntu with unity?
<daftykins> so normal ubuntu - or another flavour?
<CoolKevin> normal ubuntu 16.04, that came with Linux Format magazine
<CoolKevin> got the terminal box nowq
<daftykins> so ctrl+alt+t should open a terminal emulator as normal, nothing different to usual
<CoolKevin> now*
<CoolKevin> I just had to dl it
<daftykins> no, you never need to download it.
<CoolKevin> I just did
<CoolKevin> easier that way
<daftykins> no, it's part of the stock install and *right there* so i think you're doing something very wrong.
<CoolKevin> very possible, but if things was not changed so much
<CoolKevin> I might have found it straightaway
<daftykins> clicking dask and typing "term", mmm
<CoolKevin> thank you guys that link you gave me worked    sudo apt install pepperflashplugin-nonfree
<CoolKevin> I never typed before
<CoolKevin> all I done was click on menu and scroll down
<Switches> Well aslong as you got it sorted, that's what matters :)
<CoolKevin> yes thank you kind sir
<Switches> No worries anytime
<CoolKevin> still a lot more to sort though
<CoolKevin> this version of xchat sucks
<daftykins> hexchat is newer.
<Switches> Don't use Xchat tbh, always use Smuxi or Polaris
<CoolKevin> the notifications is really poor
<Switches> or is it polari..
<CoolKevin> I think I saw polari
<daftykins> graphics chips on the brain :)
<Switches> Always :p
<CoolKevin> I got hexchat now, at the moment I am a guest
<SuperEngineer> [at the moment I am a ghost]
<daftykins> :o
<Switches> Good to know..
<daftykins> made any phone progress SuperEngineer? :>
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... just when I get all nicely decided, I get all horribly UNdecided again [a.k.a. "No"] ;-)
<SuperEngineer> ...but if some nice person / shop / company sent me a phone to "try".....
<daftykins> you can have this HTC One X+ 64GB for Â£50 :P
<SuperEngineer> I'm sure you to sat say Â£30
<SuperEngineer> Say Â£30  ;-p
<daftykins> naah
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: What are your criteria?
<SuperEngineer> My criteria are: fits in pocket, is strong, has 8GB memory + SD card slot, and can crap on Google ;-)
<SuperEngineer> ...oh, if only!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I suggest you go into a bunch of phone shops and test the 'is strong' aspect and buy which ever one survives
<diddledan> penguin42: won't the shops mind a trail of broken handsets?
<SuperEngineer> tried that... still can't appear in some towns due to minor "police objections" [something to do with accidental damage to phones", apparently] ;-)
<penguin42> diddledan: I don't know, but it would be good to watch SuperEngineer find out
<SuperEngineer> [next time I'll post vids  ;-D
<daftykins> they tend to all be chained to stands though
<SuperEngineer> but my backside is not
<penguin42> reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fikfhYznqhw
<SuperEngineer> that's not me!!!   I will keep denying that was me as long as the lawers ask me to
<SuperEngineer> *lawyers
<daftykins> that is very cringe
<daftykins> wow 5 cops!
<daftykins> that's one busy high-street :P
<penguin42> Market street is one of the main shopping streets here
<daftykins> bit shocking nobody sorts the idiot out
<penguin42> shrug; he wasn't hurting any one, and it was a phone shop....
<daftykins> wasting fire extinguishers could hurt :)
<diddledan> Better not to intervene while he's only interested in criminal damage rather than hurting people.
<diddledan> When someone is confronted by an untrained bystander things can get dangerous
<SuperEngineer> Wimps!  That's not dangerous.  Danger = someone driving aone of those cars with 4 circles on the bonnet or with a 3 coloured circle on the bonnet ;-)
 * Switches Thinks SuperEngineer has been playing to much Carmageddon
<SuperEngineer> [may have been.........]
<Switches> Ok I guess I won't try Gnome 3.20 just yet..
<zmoylan-pi> and there's no such thing as too much carmageddon
<Switches> rofl
<diddledan> What shall we do with the something something, what shall we do with the something something, what shall we do with the something something something something morning
<zmoylan-pi> too late to deal with it now...
<daftykins> Switches: ooh nice! AMD press event may 31st
<Switches> :o
<zmoylan-pi> they're pulling out of the cpu market and going to move to making toasters... :-P
<Switches> Aint seen that yet, just listening to Linux unplugged totally mess up exactly what the ZFS in Ubuntu is about ... Why do people still think its Oracles ZFS?
<daftykins> i see some UK sites have listings now too
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/store/Components/cat/Graphics-Cards-Nvidia/subcat/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1080
 * Switches Runs off to check
<daftykins> Â£528 down here in rock land
<Switches> ouch Â£633..
<daftykins> for the Flawed Edition :)
<Switches> yeah
<daftykins> i've decided it's badly made given the power inputs being castrated
<Switches> lol yeah a lot are saying thats holding back the OC'ing
<Switches> Seen a few say they hope the custom boards add a six or eight pin extra
<diddledan> Flawed edition?
<penguin42> Switches: To answer your previous question; because it's still the code written by Oracle
<Switches> Its Founders Edition, but its Flawed
<daftykins> *nod* AIBs should fix it
<Switches> Erm penguin42 it isn't the version they use is version 28 which was written by Sun before Oracles purchase
<penguin42> Switches: That's splitting hairs; Oracle bought Sun->Hence it's Oracle's
<penguin42> Switches: and they bought them ages ago as well, so fine if you want to call it Sun's zfs I won't argue
<diddledan> It doesn't really matter though. It's the license that's in dispute
<diddledan> Sun or Oracle, it's still CDDL
<Switches> True
<Switches> Hmm seems they got some more stuff going on aswell http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/computex-2016-2016may19.aspx
<Switches> 7th generation APU and Polaris
<Switches> Should be an interesting Computex
<diddledan> Isn't it computer that Sandra's Bullocks fixes the praetorians mess?
<diddledan> Computex **
<daftykins> i thought she was more known for breaking things?
<Switches> Yeah it is
<Switches> Its in Taiwan, a few of the tech shows I watch are going
<Switches> Seems a lot are saying AMD will announce and show Bristol Ridge there
<Switches> Which actually ties in with what daftykins was saying as its the 30th it starts I think..
<zmoylan-pi> what would be the most exciting? amd making a portable chip? a new desktop processor? graphics cpu?
 * Switches rubs hands
<Switches> Well tbh if they are announcing both a new APU and Bristol Ridge that will be exciting, Although the graphics is more what I'm looking forward to
<diddledan> None of the above. Most exciting would be making all their products available for free :-p
<Switches> lol
<zmoylan-pi> that's easy, you get your friends and family to buy them and run windows and in 6 months when it's an infected mess then you take it off their hands while they buy new stuff :-P
<Switches> Got about the same chance of that as Intel releasing an "enthusiast" chip at a reasonable price :p
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> haswell-e was OK wasn't it?
<Switches> Haswell-E was fine, they got the newer Broadwell-E coming out the around Â£1500 i7-6950X >.<
<daftykins> broadwell using a 6 as the first digit?
<Switches> Tbh Sandy Bridge is still fine, let alone Haswell
<penguin42> ouch 1500 is a bit much!
<Switches> Yeah, don't understand that but hey
<Switches> maybe they didn't want to be confused with a certain graphics chip xD
<Switches> Intels HD7950X rofl
<Switches> I did read somewhere though that the new Broadwells also have Iris Pro, rather than the Intel HD graphics
<daftykins> makes sense
<Switches> Yeah, they had them already on Ebay or something.. someone selling the Intel Confidential chips..
<Switches> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-i7-6950X-LGA2011-3-8C-16T-3GHz-25MB-L3-140W-for-X99-chipset-/111980028756?hash=item1a1287a354:g:1EoAAOSw-tNXH4eu
<Switches> Almost $2000
<daftykins> lul
<daftykins> 140W >_<
<Switches> Yeah
<directhex> at least i already have x99!
<Switches> I thought we were meant to be getting more power effiecient, guess not :p
<zmoylan-pi> well you won't be able to afford acutal heating after buying this so it will help with the cold :-)
<Switches> Rofl, thats so true
<zmoylan-pi> version 2 will have a grill so you can make toast... :-P
<Switches> hehe
<directhex> there we go, H.D firmware release supports broadwell-e
<Switches> Or an inbuilt George Foremans
<Switches> I'll stick to my Xeons for now
<penguin42> which xeons ?
<directhex> i can just throw my haswell-e in the bin
 * penguin42 takes directhex's bin
<Switches> Got 5 here, really old dual server thats socket 771, dual E5620 and a E3-1270v2
<Switches> Still trying to source a new board for the E5620s, but spent to much this month so prob be able to get one next month
 * Switches needs to stop putting lighter next to usb stick..
<Switches> Amount of times I've tried to light a ciggy with a usb stick is beyond belief today..
<penguin42> usb sticks generally are safer
<Switches> this is what I need http://coolmaterial.com/tech/usb-8gb-flash-drive-lighter/
<diddledan> Switches: at least you haven't lit your computer yet
<Switches> True
<zmoylan-pi> obviously not cool enough for kevin... :-)
<Switches> He was having some problems earlier, guess he didn't fix all of them
<daftykins> still a bit puzzled as to how someone can't find the stock terminal
<zmoylan-pi> the terminal scare people
<Switches> Well bit hard to miss in Ubuntu yeah.. but still as zmoylan-pi said, scares some people
<daftykins> well that one said they downloaded another
<Switches> Thought he was on about the chat client?
<Switches> Tbh was tabbing a bit once he said the pepperflash was working for him
<Switches> Ohh Fermi cards finally got OpenGL 4.2..
<Switches> Only three generations for the Nouveau to catch up on now >.<
<Switches> Really wish Nvidia would give those guys a hand, rather than put up more blocks for them.. damn signed firmware >.<
<daftykins> BFG! :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1fZg0hhBX8
<Switches> rofl
<Switches> Remember reading the book to my daughter when she was small..
<daftykins> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-22
<mappps> mm what show to tart
<daftykins> find something better to do with your time :P
<knightwise> hey everyone
<daftykins> \o
<knightwise> hey dude :)
<knightwise> hows it hangin
<daftykins> all good here ta, and you? just been dreaming of the new graphics cards ;) http://www.ebuyer.com/store/Components/cat/Graphics-Cards-Nvidia/subcat/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1080
<knightwise> :) i'm at the other end of the spectrum trying to get my machine to play classic arcade games
<daftykins> hehe
<directhex> all discussion of the new geforce must be accompanied by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ12rCD-Dkk
<daftykins> =]
<zmoylan-pi> games have come a long way... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAlhsAt1u1w
<daftykins> that's some funny snowboarding :D
<zmoylan-pi> horace goes skiing it is... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0bctXFnw-Y
<daftykins> zomg i had a Horace game on my Psion s3c! :D
<daftykins> LOL ambulance fee $10!
<directhex> i had hungry horace for dragon 32
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<popey> o/
<daftykins> ah sometimes i find myself wishing a task that's 'easy' under Linux could be so under Windows too :P
<daftykins> xbox one game storage drives can be mounted under Linux with -o loop,offset=2048 - no idea in Windows :D
<zmoylan-pi> when bash is more established on windows... :-)
<daftykins> naw i think this one'd be too low level
<zmoylan-pi> you could have a rasp pi beside your windows pc to do the hard/complicated stuff... :-)
<daftykins> nah i need USB 3.0 to copy the content at speed, sometimes a game would be 60GB on there
<daftykins> i just reboot my desktop into a live session :>
<zmoylan-pi> so... not sending the file via ir... :-P
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i should do a bogroll post about this actually, doesn't seem to be common knowledge online
<zmoylan-pi> i do remember once sending a few mp3s via ir to... ironically save time finding a cable and configuring a link... :-)
<daftykins> haha, i've just pulled some hair out the times i've tried to go near, say, bluetooth
<zmoylan-pi> bt is a bit of a disaster. the having to authenticate while /right/ really slows things down
<zmoylan-pi> ir was just point and beam
<zmoylan-pi> i find it quicker to generate a qr code and decode it on the mobile device with the camera than bt stuff across
<daftykins> what kinds of things would that be?
<zmoylan-pi> sending a wifi wep code, a few k of text the usual
<daftykins> ah yeah
<daftykins> must say i've thought of that method before but can't think there'd be an efficient way to get going on QR codes from Windows ;D
<zmoylan-pi> a few web extensions for browsers for generating qr codes from text do the job for me
<daftykins> ah that'd work
<zmoylan-pi> tired of giant phones... :-P https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjDUENCXIAAKvOd.jpg:large
<daftykins> i find this funny... i booted up 16.04 beta (outdated flash drive) on the macbook i have earlier... the touchpad works now compared to 14.04! :) thing got abandoned by Apple, but i may still sell it
<daftykins> well it did work, just not with a finger tip :) oddest thing i've ever seen with a touchpad! required a full thumb segment to move the pointer
<daftykins> reminds me, must update some of my flash drives
<zmoylan-pi> i have seen that sort of before were an android phone ignored touch from fingers but when i tried a stylus it was ok with it.
<daftykins> hrmm
<zmoylan-pi> used the stylus to reset phone and then it recognised fingers again...
<daftykins> any ideas on if it was an older model that was resistive vs. capacitive?
<zmoylan-pi> cheap android phone from last year iirc
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> i am greatly disappointed in the situation we have with phones, i've got maybe 6 lying around here that are old outdated models that are essentially useless from the perspective of being safe to use online
<zmoylan-pi> use opera mini as the browser and it eliminates some of that risk?
<zmoylan-pi> even if it's an acquired taste
<daftykins> well, the things are even at risk from a malicious MMS now... granted you can often turn off auto download of them, but eh
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, you'd have to kill the mms service by removing the connection details
<zmoylan-pi> but do you often receive mms these days?
<zmoylan-pi> one of the things i *LOVE* about my crappy nokia is that it _doesn't_ do emojii :-)
<daftykins> :D yep, pretty much never - and when i do, i get a standard text linking me to a telco site with a PIN code to enter to see them
<zmoylan-pi> when my nephew was born my brother sent everyone in his phonebook mms to first pic when mms and cameraphones were new and shiny. only 3 people managed to get the pic. vodafone made it so awkward
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> here's something i find odd about ubuntu as a foreign observer... going to look at nearby wireless networks in a live session, my own is _always_ without fail off the end of the list under 'more'
<daftykins> you'd think the strongest signal ones would be sorted to the top...
<directhex> sorting lists? sounds hard
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think is an assumption
<zmoylan-pi> sorting lists _is_ hard as no matter what sort you chose will annoy someone
<popey> there's a bug about that which I filed
<popey> i got mail about it this weekend
<daftykins> o rry
<popey> the network list is alphabetically sorted
<daftykins> *nod*
<popey> well, it is to some degree anyway :)
<popey> bug 366780
<lubotu3`> bug 366780 in Network Manager Applet "Please provide a mechanism whereby Wi-Fi networks can be prioritized" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/366780
<popey> only 7 years
<daftykins> i shall refrain from cheeky comment ;D
<daftykins> though i think the Guernsey getting the US keyboard layout one took a bit longer than that to sort...
<mh> network list is alphabetically sorted rather than sorted by signal strength? never knew that
<daftykins> mm, my network is far down the alphabet so without fail it's never seen on the NM menu
<daftykins> well y'know, the initial one
<mh> now i come to think of it, it's the same on os x here too
<mh> i dont understand the logic :o
<daftykins> mmm, i've seen that on macs too... shocking usability thing imo
<mh> yeah i've never noticed that because everyone around here has a "SKYxxxx" router or a "TNCAPxxx" one, and coincidentally they sort the same alphabetically as they do by signal :P
<daftykins> aww yis got a manual samba mount right first time \o/
<popey> on osx you can drag/drop networks in the list
<daftykins> can't think when that'd ever be useful
<popey> if you move around between a bunch of places which have a ton of networks it is
<popey> especially in a city
<popey> as the list is truncated
<daftykins> ah so it remembers the ordering preference for given locations?
<popey> no
<popey> but specific networks you prioritise will appear at the top when they're nearby
<popey> e.g. if you're in a cafe and the starbucks network appears (or btcloud or whatever), you can push that to the top
<daftykins> hmm, my thought there would be that surely once you've been somewhere once and connected to it, it'd be remembered most likely anyway
<popey> so whenever you're near a starbucks you'll see that over the top of all the other non-useful networks
<daftykins> mmm public less so i guess
<daftykins> yeah
<popey> looking at the source for nm-applet, it doesn't look hard to implement, wonder why they havent
<daftykins> pretty clear signal variable and so on?
<daftykins> mercy me gigabit LAN can feel so slow these days :P
<daftykins> heh got that screen blinking effect with 16.04 desktop booted on my skylake Dell XPS 13 9350
<daftykins> ah did it 3 or 4 times then se... nope didn't settle
<Kkr> anyone
<popey> anyone what?
<Kkr> what is this group for
<Kkr> like i wanted to know
<Kkr> ubunto
<Kkr> i hav heard a lot
<popey> Kkr: this is a channel for discussing Ubuntu
<popey> Mostly UK based people in here, but some from other parts of the world.
<Kkr> yup
<Kkr> Wait
<Kkr> let me pm u
<daftykins> might be better if you kept the chat in here :)
<daftykins> penguin42: o/
<penguin42> hey daftykins
<daftykins> how's your Sunday going? :)
<penguin42> well, I've had breakfast...
<Kkr> mine is boring
<daftykins> sounds like a good start :D
<penguin42> yeh I guess I should get dressed, it's going on for 2pm
<daftykins> it's leet o'clock
<Switches> Afternoon all
<penguin42> morning
<Switches> lol https://twitter.com/AniqahC/status/733287462152343553/photo/1 best tweets ever!
<Switches> Ohh Serious Sam 4 has been confirmed in development :o
<daftykins> i didn't even touch the last one, impressive
<Switches> All of them tbh are great, 2 is my personal fav, but 3 is great fun
<daftykins> many a fond memory of playing them at LAN parties
<daftykins> that is, assuming i managed to take my IT support hat off and my gamer hat on ;)
<Switches> lol
<Switches> Yeah I often hit that problem
<Switches> Or well I used to when I was doing work in IT
<Switches> Nowadays I get to be lazy and just break things :p
<penguin42> breaking things is so much easier and less stressful than having to fix things
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> you don't get teams of engineers camped outside with pitchforks complaining that you still haven't broken the server
<Switches> Yep, totally agree penguin42
<daftykins> very interesting firing up this old macbook i have here and being told chrome has dropped support for 10.6 through 10.8 - also Firefox will ditch those versions come August
<daftykins> the times they are a-changin'!
<Switches> Yep
<daftykins> though Firefox 45 ESR will continue until sometime next year
<daftykins> the only reason i care is i felt slightly immoral enough to begin with about trying to sell it given 10.8 is insecure and unsupported now, but these facts make it even worse
<Switches> Get linux on it :p
<daftykins> interestingly i did boot 16.04 earlier and it works better now, 14.04 required that you lay down an entire finger segment for the mouse pointer to move
<daftykins> macs are a bit of a joke with *buntu though, you get the most functionality with vanilla unity, but being old it's a bit of a drag on it
<Switches> Yeah it can be on some of the older hardware
<daftykins> picking xubuntu for example won't even have an appropriate keyboard layout
<SuperEngineer> daftykins:  sell it, take money [but make sure you got a good pair of running shoes]
<daftykins> heh, yeah i am planning to ditch it but it has no battery or AC adapter right now
<SuperEngineer> whoops, I meant to say you are highly immoral and should consider other options ;-)
<Switches> :D
<SuperEngineer> NAH!!!
<daftykins> XD
<SuperEngineer> [so tell them "you can can those "add-ons"... but it will cost them a bit more
<daftykins> i'd be a bit iffy trying to sell it with Linux on because the fanboys that would likely go for such a machine would probably be after the normal experience
<daftykins> i wouldn't fancy supporting a Linux distro :>
<daftykins> i could do with a 2GB DDR2 533MHz SODIMM to chuck in so it's maxxed out at 4GB RAM
<DJones> daftykins: I've tried that, just with family members who gave up on windows due to viruses, it hard work traying to get them through the different app's & software installations
<daftykins> mm, the profit of sale would be lost on getting them going
<DJones> Saying that, I was dealing with a 75 year old that was used to CP/M & coaxial cable networking
<daftykins> aww yeah :D
<DJones> and IBM DRS 50 mini computers
<daftykins> i started with coax, swear it was down every time i tried to use it to copy a file
<DJones> DRS 20 dumb terminals/DRS 50 mini computer server
 * penguin42 takes daftykins terminator
<daftykins> noooo
<daftykins> penguin42 is... the terminator terminator
<DJones> daftykins: Any idea what the data transfer rate was on coax cable compared to cat 5/cat 6
<daftykins> well i had 10BaseT, so 1.25MB/sec maximum, but probably saw 500KB/sec between a Pentium 1 and a Pentium 3
<penguin42> yeh that coax at the time was 10base-2 usually, so still 10Mbps
<daftykins> half duplex, with collisions galore
<daftykins> oh 2 not T, my mistake
<popey> Speaking of old tech...
<popey> I flew home from Austin yesterday, sat next to one of the BBC Micro creators :)
<DJones> I think my dad & I used the 10BaseT (we both worked at the same place) but we were using dumb terminals http://america.pink/icl-drs_2036318.html back in around 1986/87 ish
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: the word Two starts with a "T" - easy mistake
<popey> Spent hours chatting about the BBC, Archemides, Doomsday disc..
<penguin42> DJones: A lot of the specialist stuff was not 10Base-2/T - it was 'special'
<daftykins> and you didn't get escorted away by airport security for doing a bomb impression after saying doomsday? impressive!
<penguin42> popey: Which one?
<Switches> Acorn was the best "old" tech :p
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKHEsp8MYTM this guy
<DJones> penguin42: This wasn't specialist stuff, just a chemical processing plant
<popey> he was a super interesting guy to chat to
<penguin42> DJones: Yeh but it was ICL so they like to be special
<DJones> :)
<DJones> Sheesh, this takes me back to my first paying programming work.....
<SuperEngineer> Simplest job ever was being sent to site to see if their comms to outside world be restored.  Asked for access to comms room, reseated a couple of pluds in wall sockets and asked them if they tell their cleaners to be a bit more careful.
<SuperEngineer> *plugs
<penguin42> popey: Oh, that's one of the Acorn guys I've not heard much of at all
<DJones> SuperEngineer: I thought you meant you'd reseated a couple of "pleb" cleaners by bashing them into the wall :)
<Switches> That would work :p
<popey> he's lovely chap
<SuperEngineer> oooo... that would have been so tempting :-)
<Switches> I need more coffee
<Switches> Then I need to fix Gnome 3.20 on the testbench :(
<DJones> Switches: https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13221589_10207673960666115_8454350921492499246_n.jpg?oh=69b12fe3c25acddcddd3190e49d94890&oe=57D87A79
<Switches> Yep :) thats a good one
<popey> penguin42: I asked him about Micro men, the BBC docu-drama thing. he was complimentary. Said they came and talked to the whole team and were mostly accurate
<popey> even down to Chris Curry's XR2 :)
<Switches> Ohh a new systemd release and mesa improvements for Skylake.
<SuperEngineer> Tip of the day: s-t-o-p trimming toenails when you feel a sneeze coming on!  [I can currently prove how bad an idea it is to ignore that]  OUCH!
<penguin42> ouch
<SuperEngineer> enginner's plastet emergency time!  Kitchen roll & selotape ;-)
<penguin42> ouch^2
<SuperEngineer> yeah, "ouch" is similar to what I said... same number of letters but different spelling
<Switches> lol
<diddledan> lol, the X11 deadkey for the hammer and sickle: â­ is alt+c, c, c, p
<diddledan> i.e. cccp
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> how do you trigger that?
<diddledan> I found it in here: https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libX11/tree/nls/en_US.UTF-8/Compose.pre?id=3129c757f9da8586ab8b8654a56c8f687cc9ef5c
<diddledan> I'm gonna have to try it out
 * diddledan downloads an iso
<diddledan> and the pile of poo is alt+p, o, o
<diddledan> and the finger is alt+F, U
<diddledan> I'm having a twitdebate about what to name the act of creating a password hash, where hash and encrypt can't be used due to being overloaded
<daftykins> thrashing
<daftykins> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> in 140 characters so one hand tied behind your back... :-)
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> I've just suggested "repeatably and verifiably obliterate" :-D
<daftykins> oh i've got it...
<daftykins> "Ripley'd"
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> ok, for those funky character compositions, in ubuntu you first need to go to keyboard settings and set your compose key to right-alt (even though right-alt does stuff already, it's not actually defined as the compose key in the en_GB locale)
<diddledan> poo doesn't work in 16.03
<diddledan> 16.04
<diddledan> not does FU
<diddledan> â­ (CCCP) does
<diddledan> that's ALT+C+C+C+P
<diddledan> â¥ (ALT+<+3)
<popey> â­
<popey> don't need to set that, it's default Shift+AltGr
<popey> â¸
<daftykins> then add the number you first thought of
<daftykins> ;D
<popey> http://kryogenix.org/random/compose/
<popey> that's fun
<diddledan> popey: me like
<popey> :)
 * penguin42 doesn't quite understand this
<penguin42> if I'm using ffmpeg to convert from an rtmp h264 stream to mp4, mp4 is just a container of h264 - so why am I seeing ffmpeg spending time in idct?
<brobostigon> has anyone been to a carluccios before?
 * penguin42 has only ogled at their goods
<daftykins> seems to be talk online of telling it to skip IDCT o0
<daftykins> can you snag some raw and look at detailed info with 'mediainfo' ?
<penguin42> daftykins: How would I snag that?
<brobostigon> anniversary treat planning. :)
<daftykins> hrmm i've not played with rtmp
<penguin42> daftykins: -c:v copy  says furq on #ffmpeg - seems to do the trick
<sebsebseb> hi
<Switches> heya sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> Switches: hi
<Switches> Hows you mate?
<sebsebseb> Switches: ok been to a festival yesterday and today
<Switches> Ohh nice
 * sebsebseb spent quite a lot of money really, but that's how it goes at places like that
<Switches> lol yeah aint it just
<sebsebseb> Switches: yeah Â£4:50 here and there
<sebsebseb> Â£5 pounds etc
<sebsebseb> everything adds up in the end
<sebsebseb> want a t-shirt that's uhmm Â£!5 or more uh
<sebsebseb> etc
<sebsebseb> Switches: I think I didn't get round to it all it's massive
<sebsebseb> it was massive
<sebsebseb> think I might have missed a section some where
<Switches> :D
<sebsebseb> Switches: seems veganism is becoming a thing in Bristol, or starting to be yep
<Switches> Still aslong as you had fun, that's what matters
<Switches> Wouldn't know tbh don't follow the trends in Bristol much (living here is enough for me) lol
<sebsebseb> Switches: even entertainment was bad on both evenings I thought, didn't like music etc
<sebsebseb> but still stayed
<Switches> Aww
<sebsebseb> Switches: well there are like three or four vegan cafes etc  for a start there
<Switches> Well if it was pop or that I would have hated it
<sebsebseb> Switches: well yeah pop or not quite, but
<sebsebseb> yeah house music the first night hmm
<Switches> ewww
 * penguin42 thinks there are 2 or 3 in and around Manchester
<sebsebseb> Switches: and then electronic earlier
<sebsebseb> Switches: the guy from the band was good at drawing attention I thought, but the music s ucked
<sebsebseb> penguin42: yes theres going to be a vegan fest up in the mid lands later on in the year as well
<Switches> >.< I would have been walking round with headphones and my music blasting so I didn't hear it
<sebsebseb> and Scoltand as well
<sebsebseb> Switches: then you see people dancing to this sucky music
<sebsebseb> Switches: and I think like why?
<penguin42> sebsebseb: They're probably out of their skulls on something unspeakable
<Switches> sebsebseb: I'd be the same.. I'd probably ask when the decent music was going to start.
<sebsebseb> penguin42: h eh what you mean exactly by that?
<penguin42> sebsebseb: I wouldn't like to say, I mean it's unspeakable
<sebsebseb> penguin42: as in bad yeah?
<sebsebseb> or uh was that techno on the first night to
<penguin42> sebsebseb: Yes
<sebsebseb> well either way music wass bad both evenings
<sebsebseb> on main stage, then they had like a small stage with also bad music and people jugglling fire on both evenings
<sebsebseb> watching someone juggling fire gets boring after not that long as well
<penguin42> unless they drop it and set someone alight
<Switches> xD
<sebsebseb> penguin42: indeed
<sebsebseb> the event had good stalls, but  most suff at a cost so uhmm
 * sebsebseb has new vegan food to try
<sebsebseb> no I didn't go vegan, vegetarian though yes
<penguin42> sebsebseb: So you paid money to be at a place where you could spend more money and listen to bad music?
<sebsebseb> vegan is interesting though, since there are various food products for that etc, plus it all  tastes uhmm differnet form usaul food, well most of it
<sebsebseb> penguin42: yep basically
<sebsebseb> penguin42: didn't pre book tickets in advanced, which also meant paying on both days at the door the Â£8
<penguin42> oh not a vast amount
<sebsebseb> penguin42: Â£8 seemed a bit steep to me for entry
<sebsebseb> penguin42: plus my bus has gone up in price!
<penguin42> sebsebseb: Well, I do seem to have designed a chocolate sorbet that is free of anything animal (mostly by accident but hey it works)
<sebsebseb> penguin42: yeah and ve gan chocoate isn't just dark  choclate or mostly as some people may think, I got some intersting uhmm falvours,  not tried yet
<sebsebseb> there was one like a proper milk altenratibe one etc
<penguin42> sebsebseb: Oh well this is mostly just dark :-)   I did try adding a tin of pears today and I'll see how that comes out tomorrow - it's tricky to get it soft without the milk fat though
<sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches I had vegan fish and chips earlier now that was something!
<sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches  altough kind of wonder where they got the thing from, when he's like chinese market!
<Switches> Sounds interesting..
<Switches> Although I wouldn't be brave enough to ask exactly it was made with lol
<penguin42> sebsebseb: hmm, what was the fish ?
<sebsebseb> Switches: penguin42 it really did taste like well cod from what I remember.  probably about a year and a half ago now since having actsual fish and chips
<sebsebseb> penguin42: well it was made using vegan ingrediants and then in a factory
<sebsebseb> unless that really was a fish and they sold it as vegan, but probably not
<Switches> lol
<sebsebseb> Switches: I wondered with a veggie susage roll I got like last week
<sebsebseb> Switches: from a local normal place
<Switches> :D
<sebsebseb> tasted so much like a real susuage roll from what I remember
<sebsebseb> so I went back and  she's like,  oh we get that at times, it's quorn mince though
<Switches> Well I'll stick to me full english breakfasts with black pudding, thanks :P
<sebsebseb> checking with her colleage, and geting a bit uh at me,  since they were on the verge of closing and she had been there many hours, h eh
<sebsebseb> Switches: You bad boy/!
<Switches> >:)
<sebsebseb> Switches: h eh oh and if you can be ethical about software, which I assume you are, or why you using Linux etc :d..  why not over animal  cruelty stuff enough to be mostly ve getarian at least anyway :d,  just a thought :)
<sebsebseb> same to other omnivores in here I guess h eh
<Switches> lol
<sebsebseb> Switches: being etchical over animals, more so than software, is more real :d
<sebsebseb> software is this uhmm virtual cyber thing that runs lots of technology that is used today, but
<sebsebseb> where in reality not actsaully tat many people who even know about opensource/freesoftware care enough about the ethics of  it, and enough,  except for Stallman and such
<Switches> Well animal cruelty depends on how much you are willing to "accept" as normal. As far as software goes I use Linux because of it being open source, not really the "ethics" side I'm not a GNU fan
<sebsebseb> in the real world as some peple would say, using their saying,  it woudn't matter that much, if it's free or non free
<sebsebseb> going back to veganism  dependding on perosn can be a bit exteme there's a like extreme end of it all with certain people, same for opensource/freesoftware
<Switches> I have a big dislike for RMS tbh, especially when he uses the GPL to try and control projects. But that's a whole other discussion
<sebsebseb> Switches: I did see him talk in Bath before, and talked to him very breifuly after, was interesting
<Switches> Yeah I sit somewhere in the grey area on most of it
<sebsebseb> but yes he's in the extreame end of software freedom
<sebsebseb> the prime example of that
<sebsebseb> Switches: I think he uses non free software in the planes he travels in :d
<sebsebseb> around the world
<Switches> xD
<sebsebseb> and in microwaves and such.  I  think someone asked him once,  what about a microwave? and he was like  it's just a device so eh
<Switches> Guess that's one way of looking at it
<sebsebseb> Switches: yep in a plane, and it's fly8ing, probably indirectly using free software
<sebsebseb> the thing your in is using non free software though
<sebsebseb> Switches: animal cruely  depending on how much  to accept as normal what did you  mean by that just now?
<Switches> Tbh opensource has enough of a job on its own, being under the "umbrella" of FSF isn't always a bad thing but at times I think it can be detremental
<sebsebseb> Switches: as a side thing there's also death, going to be dead like the meat one day, and then what hmmm,  now that bothers me since I am not sure what I belive really when it comes to things like that
<sebsebseb> Switches: not very nice having animals kiled though just for mostly a taste etc, that's how I see it now
<Switches> Depends on which way you see it I guess. I don't like animals being mistreated, but at the same time I don't exactly feel obligated to protect them.
<sebsebseb> Switches: yeah I am not into that stuff enough, to be like a activist for that
<sebsebseb> Switches: but enough to think about it, and be well veggie now :)
<Switches> If it wasn't me eating them (which tbh most the meat you eat are bred for) they would only be killed in the wild anyways
<sebsebseb> Switches: yes debateably eggs are bad since.... and milk too since... and  even honey!
<Switches> Always something bigger and more dangerous about
<sebsebseb> Switches: however as someone basically said at a veggie vegan meal I went to, got to draw a lilne some where and decide how far or not you want to go
<Switches> Imo man only survives because its at the top of the food chain as it were. Look at us physically compared to some of the stuff on this planet, we only win by brains and numbers, not strength.
<sebsebseb> Switches: pescetarian  where vegetarian but eating fish sometiems still, to adctsaul vegatarian ok.  however I had never intended to be a vegan before,  like my milk shakes and such to much for  that for now etc.  but I think from a ethical point of view being vegetarian is much better than being a meat etc eater
<sebsebseb> might go ve gan once more into cooking and baking myself :)  oh  I bought one or two or so recipe books at event
 * penguin42 doesn't really see the ethical problems with milk or perhaps even eggs
<Switches> I can see the point to it, and praise people who can be vegan or veggie. That's the whole point in having free will as it were
<Switches> But for me, I couldn't be a vegan or vegetarian. Just not my style personally
<sebsebseb> penguin42: well the males may get killed
<sebsebseb> penguin42: for example
<sebsebseb> since can't produce eggs or milk
<sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches I came across this quite recently, but for India there's like two food labeling,s green and brown I think itw as yeah.  green so vegeterian stuff
<sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches brown things that arent vegetarian so meat for example, but here's the thing also eggs
<sebsebseb> eggs why? since it seems to be there's this idea that a egg is a bit like eating a whole chicken or kind of
<Switches> I guess a lot comes down to culture aswell
<sebsebseb> that a egg is well something that is meant to give life etc so, eating that uhmm
<sebsebseb> and then this was goign by a indian guy in person who I am starting to know a bit from something, but if I remember corredctly he said milk on theo ther hand they  would be more ok with since  it's not   like a thing that's meant tobe alive basidally
<zmoylan-pi> and that an egg comes from a chickens bum...
<popey> cloaca
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: even alley gator eggs?
<sebsebseb> Switches: yeah culture indeed, but in the UK  egg and milk is under vegatarian  but not veganism yep
<popey> chickens have cloacas
<Switches> Heya popey, diddledan
<popey> yo
<sebsebseb> Switches: real vegans have issues with honey too though! I read some webpageabout that before, since it's freom bees uhmm.  uhmm right well I like occasiaonl honey  as a treat,  so uhmm no veganism for me then I guess
<sebsebseb> or soon
<popey> diddledan: yes
<Switches> Well I think the UK is a bit weird when you compare us to most places.. I mean our main "liked" foods aren't even from the UK most the time :p
<sebsebseb> popey: for some reason I was thinking you might have been sleeping, even though USA is behind uh, time one stuff, like you hadn't adjusged back h eh, but I guess you been back most of the week actsaully now h eh
<sebsebseb> popey: how was the wild wide west, well uhmm Texas?
<popey> sebsebseb: i'm back in the uk
<popey> Texas was excellent
<popey> want to go back to Austin sometime
 * Switches hates adverts on youtube spoiling my music..
<sebsebseb> how was it excellent?
<diddledan> popey: alley gator eggs come from a chicken's bum/cloaca?
<popey> diddledan: well done
<popey> sebsebseb: got lots done, met fine people, had great food
 * diddledan wonders whether the alley gators would eat the chicken that laid them
<Switches> It was "excellent" because popey got beat by an AI robot at Rock/Paper/Scissors!
<popey> there was that
<zmoylan-pi> should have played spock instead...
 * sebsebseb should probably eat some of that vegan food, such as the uhmm  hmm
<popey> we had some nice vegan food in Austin
<popey> I had vegan pizza on last day
<sebsebseb> popey: what kind of food I was going to ast?
<sebsebseb> say
<popey> had some nice asian food too
<popey> i have marked all the places we went on google maps
<popey> so if i go again, i can remember where to do
<Switches> Found that funny when you bought it up in Ubuntu-on-air :p
<popey> go
<popey> :)
<penguin42> I've heard it said Austin is very unlike the rest of Texas
<Switches> everyone like "oh yeah sure, see ya guys"
<sebsebseb> popey: vegan pizza, so just well pizza wihtout cheese?  or was it with vegan cheese?
<Switches> Pizza without cheese is blasphemy!
 * sebsebseb could have had  vegan pizza at the event earlier or maybe if enough cash left, but no I think the food I got instead was better mostly :)
<sebsebseb> ok maybe not that paella to begin with though,but eh
<sebsebseb> annoyingly I had ran out of cash the first evening so coudn't even get food then uh
<sebsebseb> on the first day
<Switches> :(
<sebsebseb> Switches: yeah what you get for uhmm
<Switches> Next time take more dosh
<sebsebseb> Switches: thinking you got lots of money
<sebsebseb> Switches: buying something else in town first, clothes wise
<sebsebseb> and paying   well in cash and then card
<sebsebseb> Switches: I did  this second day
<sebsebseb> mad sure I had more etc
<Switches> :D
<sebsebseb> Switches: but guess what, I have spent most of it, and uhmm that was quite a bit really
<sebsebseb> or maybe not actsauly in reality when everything is expensive at events that is for sale as I was trying to say earlier
<Switches> I used to like going to the Computer Fair in Bristol, but never took enough money...
<sebsebseb> everything adds up
<sebsebseb> Â£100 for example is not much, once you start buying things!
<Switches> Yeah it kinda runs out fast
<sebsebseb> Switches: indeed
<sebsebseb> usually Â£100 is a fair bit etc,  but for events not anymore it seems most events anyway
<Switches> Yeah, everything seems to be so expensive now when it comes to any show/event
<sebsebseb> Switches: or  is that just UK ones mainly
<sebsebseb> Brussels FOSDEM is great :d
<sebsebseb> get a lot of freebies :)
<Switches> :D
<sebsebseb> and  at 15 ueros  a t-shirt  for example for most stands, that doens't seem so bad
<sebsebseb> at the time
<sebsebseb> Switches: I did get one or two well there things for free the first day though, that otherwise would have been sold to  people
<sebsebseb> four maybe acsaully
<Switches> Tbh i never travel out of the country anymore (well actually very rarely travel out of my house lol) used to like going to Italy on my motorbike or Germany in the car :p
<sebsebseb> Switches: yeh
<sebsebseb> well expensive to travel to
 * penguin42 hasn't been to Bristol - it's a pain to get down there from Manc
<sebsebseb> unless your someone like popey and at times can get your company ( Canonical ) to pay for you to go somewhere good, oh isn't he lucky h eh, USA on the company :D
<sebsebseb> penguin42: well it is and isn't
<Switches> Yeah, but tbh if you take your own vehicle it comes in pretty cheap for a trip to Italy
<sebsebseb> penguin42: I belve the train for example is rather direct
<Switches> penguin42: Yeah I bet
<sebsebseb> penguin42: Liverpool is like three hours away in car or via trains from here though,
<Switches> The motorways up there are enough to put people off for life xD
<penguin42> sebsebseb: Well we're OK Man->London on west coast main line, but as soon as you go off the west coast mainline it gets slow
<sebsebseb> penguin42:  for Liverpool I had to change train, since otherwise well that ones go to Mancheser the first
<sebsebseb> penguin42: that one would go through Birmingahm New Street sure and out again, but  would just stay on :d
<sebsebseb> so that's what I meant by direct really
<sebsebseb> no change of train
<penguin42> sebsebseb: Manc-Liverpool is really fast/easy - although it depends which train station you happen to be in
<diddledan> penguin42: london on the west coast mainline?
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh
<diddledan> isn't london on the east?
<penguin42> diddledan: End up in the concretey depths of Euston
<sebsebseb> penguin42: Bristol to Manchester is just one train it seems
<sebsebseb> penguin42: so not so bad
<sebsebseb> Switches: oh what you doing next Saturday?
<Switches> Hmm probably the same as I do every Saturday, nothing but sit around having a can of fosters
<penguin42> sebsebseb: Yeh I guess just over 3h - not too bad - except for the cost
<sebsebseb> Switches: ok but you could have a pint of fosters or something better to drink, at the LUG ????
<sebsebseb> penguin42: indeed cost would be about Â£70 I guess
<Switches> I would mate, but I aint really the sociable type. Hence why I stay in my house a lot lol
<penguin42> sebsebseb: Looking closer to 80 one way
 * sebsebseb woudn't mind meeting Switches :)
<sebsebseb> Switches: doesn't matter
<sebsebseb> Switches: some of them aren't  that sociable I guess, and also old h eh
<sebsebseb> Switches: I mean old as in yes old
<Switches> I have a pub literally over the back of me and wont use that either :p
<sebsebseb> Switches: oh which pub?
<Switches> Na mine is more health related :p
<sebsebseb> Switches: you  are sort of sociable I guess
<Switches> Fulford Inn
<penguin42> sebsebseb: I often just go to Liverpool for an afternoon - it's only 30-45mins away by train
<sebsebseb> Switches:   IRC is sort of sociable
<Switches> Infront of a comp yeah :p
<sebsebseb> penguin42: yeah I know they are quite near
<sebsebseb> penguin42: been to Manchester airport before with  my Dad and one of my brothers, but never been to actsual Manchester
<Switches> I suffer from depression and anxiety disorders, hence why I spend a lot of time infront of a PC rather than out and about.
 * popey goes to bed dreaming of his meizu pro 5 which arrives tomorrow
<sebsebseb> penguin42: plus there's a uhmm free software  fanatic  that I could meet up with theer if I was going to Manchester hmm
<penguin42> sebsebseb: the airport is a bit out of the way relative to the city
<sebsebseb> popey: : ok nice :) or today even sinc after mid night
<Switches> Ohh nice popey, nn mate sleep well
<sebsebseb> penguin42: yeah I know it's like on the out skirts or soething
<sebsebseb> popey: just uhmm don't sit on that  phone or something like that :d
<sebsebseb> Switches: pm or here whatever, your choice, anxiety how?
<sebsebseb> depression why?
<penguin42> it's just the way brains work
<sebsebseb> penguin42: everyone is differnet
<penguin42> right
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not... :-)
<Switches> zmoylan-pi: You're not different to everyone else?
 * Switches runs away from zmoylan-pi HE's A CLONE!!
<zmoylan-pi> the correct term is doppleganger... :-P
<Switches> lol
<Switches> But who's?!
<zmoylan-pi> mine
<Switches> :o
 * Switches runs
<Switches> I need more coffee.. again
<zmoylan-pi> at this time of night?
<Switches> I drink a lot of coffee, it actually helps me relax and sleep (I know stupid or what)
 * penguin42 sticks to the very dark chocolate
<Switches> Ahh coffee
<sebsebseb> Switches: penguin42  a point I should have put earlier to or could have but I'l ldo it now i
<sebsebseb> Switches: penguin42 vegan is also becoming like a thing really!
<sebsebseb> as for shown to me by that event ,but not just that, in general it's becoming more of a thing
<sebsebseb> just got on some link talking about Americans even
<sebsebseb> wanting  vegan products meat eaters, vegetairns ,vegans
<Switches> Well I guess its always been a "thing" but imo it's like early Linux :p not for the mainstream xD
<sebsebseb> Switches: but it's becoming more main stremae  going by the link I just tgot on anwyy
<Switches> Yeah I think it's pretty big in certain parts
<sebsebseb> Switches: an American linik, but for the UK same kind of thing I guess: http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Markets/Vegan-is-going-mainstream-trend-data-suggests
<sebsebseb> Switches: I know of and have been to four,  Vegan cafes in Bristol that sell yep you guessed it vegan food!
<sebsebseb> well I guess one of them is more like a resturant really or is a resturant really, well two really
<Switches> I should hope they did.. not much point being a restaurant for vegans then selling burger and chips :p
<penguin42> sebsebseb: vegan has been a thing for a long long time - one of my uncles is
<Switches> Yeah I think he's more saying it's becoming "widespread" with all the "healthy" eating plans and such
<sebsebseb> Switches: Briistol is alright for vegan/veggie then since those places
<Switches> Yeah, always good to have a choice
<sebsebseb> Switches: however I remember going at the wrong time of year to Bristol hoping to eat in one of the three places with someone, and all three were shut!
<sebsebseb> the fancy place another part so wasn't going to that one.  three of the four are in the same kind of bigish area
<sebsebseb> Switches: penguin42 yep more widespread that's what I meant
<Switches> Well there are probably even more popping up nowadays. Park Street and maybe erm.. cant remember the name of the road.. Oh yeah Whiteladies road
 * sebsebseb remembers when he used to be unsure about vegatiran and vegan, and think that generally that would be seen as a like bad thing by most people
<sebsebseb> etc
<sebsebseb> ,but no it's awesome really stuff like that  :), if can do it I mean :)
<sebsebseb> now I know :)
<sebsebseb> Switches: penguin42 it's ashame though that I can't buy any of the products except for the basic stuff
<sebsebseb> the very basic stuff ike Soya milk and yeah
<sebsebseb> where I actusally live
<penguin42> sebsebseb: What type of stuff are you after?
<Switches> Tbh a lot of thing's have became the "norm" as it were for Bristol, I mean we have a lot of places around cater to all different types of people
<sebsebseb> penguin42:  well there's a whole world of interesting vegan products out there now!
<sebsebseb> I been buying some more of that this weekend, things I haven't had before,  time to eat some of that soon :d
<penguin42> sebsebseb: It's certainly hard to find things like agar-agar in the shop
<sebsebseb> penguin42: I haven't paid that much attention to the actsal prdocuts that were availale etc etc,  and not quite sure what really is, I  just know there are lots of them.  so uhmm what's agar-agar?
<penguin42> sebsebseb: It's a seaweed derived gelling agent
<Switches> You would probably find some shops like that up towards Clifton, but yeah they aren't very mainstream
<sebsebseb> Switches: the Italian place near hte bus station is a good one that trys to cater to everyone
<sebsebseb> Switches: in it's menu as well, it had a thing about vegaterian, vegan, and meat eating
<sebsebseb> penguin42:  Switches yes there's that to,, the vegan cosmetics
<Switches> ahh the one that used to be a beafeaters, yeah I have heard about them, my aunt eats there a lot with her friends
<sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches there's been some or more of that at teh event  this weekend to but I didn't buy any of that
<penguin42> sebsebseb: It works in recipies where you might otherwise use gelatine
<sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches oh  you put getlign agent so I was thinking  theo ther thing, but ok your on about the food thing ok
 * sebsebseb thinks of gel has bieing like shower gel etc, but that's not always what it means
<penguin42> sebsebseb: There are quite a few gelling agents that get used both in food and in cosmetics etc - very difficult to get on the high street
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-15
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> adding a 32gb card to a tablet as the 16gb card is constantly full... and i suspect by the end of the day the 32gb will be full...
 * zmoylan-pi remembers adding a 16mb card to my visor pda and thinking, i'll never fill that...
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> has to be said it did take a few months to fill the palm as it compressed the buggery out of everything... but no mp3s or mp4s...
 * brobostigon has one of those too, and a psion, :D
<brobostigon> had*
<zmoylan-pi> my psion had a 32mb cf and that was fairly full... when i got a sharp zaurus i put the 32mb cf _and_ a 64mb sd card into it for 96mb of storage...
<zmoylan-pi> having 2 slots was brilliant
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> be at a geeky meeting and inserting someones cf card and copying over some files they want from someone elses sd card from a linux command line... geeky +3 right there...
<brobostigon>  +3 geek XP points increase.
<zmoylan-pi> of course then someone pulls out the clamshell zaurus with an ibm microdrive in the cf slot and your thunder is stolen... :-)
<brobostigon> and there me thinking i was flash for having a nokia n900, :)
<zmoylan-pi> well the zaurus clamshell was only available in japan so you had to specially order it from an american source who got them and installed an english distro, huge backlog iirc
<zmoylan-pi> there were a lot of n900's about in comparison
<brobostigon> ah i see.
<zmoylan-pi> i had a n770, the wifi range on it was incredible
<brobostigon> :)
<Oli> I miss my n900. SSH with an on-screen keyboard makes me sad.
<diddledan> Oli: onscreen keyboards make it much easier to rm -rf / though. surely that's a good thing, no?
<diddledan> !danger
<lubotu3> DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you!
<zmoylan-pi> that's why bt keyboards were invented... now if they made one that wasn't crap...
<zmoylan-pi> till then, i'll cling to my nokia e63...
<Oli> Meh. If I'm fussed enough to pull out a keyboard, I may as well grab the laptop.
<zmoylan-pi> you haven't lived till you've sshed from a dumb phone :-) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJJ7ZlEWUAAfxD5.jpg
<popey> pffft, do it from one without a querty keyboard at least
<popey> I used to ssh from my nokia n82
<zmoylan-pi> i will when the new nokia 3310 comes out :-D
<popey> heh
<popey> that phone feels very cheap in the hands, not like the old 3310 :(
<zmoylan-pi> oh no they're tracking us... destroy the phone... uhhhh, it's a nokia 3310.... damn... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> the old 3310 felt plasticky in the hand too... it did take me more than 3 minutes to destroy it mind...
<zmoylan-pi> as long as the new nokia 3310 wins every game of phone conkers i'll be happy.
<foobarry> closed all my tabs one by one to see which one was causing > 100% cpu on firefox
<foobarry> turned out it was none of them :(
<diddledan> HAAHAA!
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> for using < 100% of cpu my money would have been on a soccer web page... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> *> 100%
<MooDoo> howdy
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/NYD3QtyEGGM
<DJones> !Ugh, thats 2 hours of my life I won't get back updating windows & for creators update
<lubotu3> DJones: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<diddledan> I've not heard of "Windows &"
<zmoylan-pi> well there's windows xp, windows vista, windows 7, windows 10, windows 10s (not a lot of windows in that) :-P
<diddledan> yes, but none of those are "Windows &"
<DJones> Heh, best use of technology yet http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39919702
<daftykins> DJones: :D
<zmoylan-pi> but it will be fun when someone hacks that system...
<diddledan> yeesh: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html
<brobostigon> presumably he was plastered at the time, and didnt realise what he was saying.
<zmoylan-pi> in his defense it wasn't highly classified info... _after_ that meeting... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> trump doesn't drink
<zmoylan-pi> you always see trump stone cold sober... scary, isn't it?
<daftykins> but what's the hair drinking?
<zmoylan-pi> that's a whole other life form... deffo not a brain slug from futurama...
<brobostigon> lolz quite. maybe the hair is doing drugs not drink?
<brobostigon> and is related to boris johnson's hair?
<daftykins> anyone seen the Robot Chicken William Shatner hair super hero sketch? yeah, that
<zmoylan-pi> and north koreas leader also possesses mad hair...
<brobostigon> maybe all three are just as bad as eachother? maybe the hair is in control?
<daftykins> i was just thinking that, i'm going to become famous for writing a film script where hair controls people that rule the world
<zmoylan-pi> only trust bald leaders...
<brobostigon> daftykins: thats been done in the simpsons already, :)
<daftykins> "Simpsons did it!" d'aww
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> they're discussing the above wash post story now on npr... ::listening on dab radio::
<brobostigon> example 1: homer got a hair transplant from the criminal snake.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-16
<xnox> i almost typed up "good morning! there is a lot of sunshite this morning!"
<xnox> coffee first, then irc.
<MooDoo> howdy
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon hope you're well
<brobostigon> yes, not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i'm ok thanks
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> Hey guys, anyone know of a way to stop tar from creating an archive if the dir you are wanting to tar up doesn't exist
<diplo> tar cvfz system.Tue.tbz2 system for example and the system folder is called system1
<diplo> The tbz2 file is still created even though tar complains it cannot stat it
<diplo> and of course is empty
<ali1234> test -d directory && tar ...
<diplo> yeah only thing I can think of
<diddledan> m00bs
<diddledan> that's a scary lxc name: snapcraft-slowly-alive-wahoo
<popey> diddledan: i love the names it comes up with
<popey> better than that time we created a hostname of nexus7-mo****f*****
<foobarry> just watched a film called Lucy. load of cobblers!
<daubers> She turned into a USB stick in the end
<daubers> weirdest ending ever
<foobarry> that film had so much potential
<webpigeon> ... turned into a USB stick... damn it, that is why we have type checking
 * zmoylan-pi picks up usb stick on desk and puts it were it can't see me...
 * diddledan tries plugging lucy into the PC. damn, wrong way around.
<zmoylan-pi> 3rd time lucky... same motto as german army...
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/864596482485239808
<zmoylan-pi> how are you supposed to have it turn inside out in high winds and get mad at it?!
<diddledan> no idea
<diddledan> did they get the title wrong or are they being hilariously funny? "Level1 News May 16 2017: Neutral Nets Catch Spam, Not Fish" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqUa0Ryu24s)
<zmoylan-pi> someone typing on their phone methinks
<diddledan> omg: https://twitter.com/shanselman/status/864622949042499584
<diddledan> hmm. midnight:30. is it a good time to put the oven on to cook something for dinner?
<zmoylan-pi> popcorn to annoy the neighbours...
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> remember to use your tinniest metal pan for maximum pinging
<zmoylan-pi> or coffee and fry some bacon to wake them up thinking it's brekkie time... :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-17
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Oli> You could set a really bad clock by brobostigon's greeting.
<Oli> (Morning!)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> his greeting is based on the time it takes to get to his desk with a perfectly made cup of tea which takes longer/shorter depending on the weather hence making it perfect uk time... :-P
<brobostigon> :D hehe yeah.
<zmoylan-pi> we now take a moment to contemplate this (the time it takes to dunk one rich tea biccie) :-P
<brobostigon> dunk-dunk-dunk-plop-woops
<zmoylan-pi> well if you reach plop the moment has well and truly passed and we then have to reach for the spoon to fish it out...
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> unless you're one of /those/ who just drink their tea with a mushy biccie at the bottom of the cup... *blasphemers*
<brobostigon> ewww
 * TwistedLucidity dry heaves
<czajkowski> Aloha
<diddledan> this WannaCry is getting out of hand: https://twitter.com/Twylo/status/864655680514342912
<zmoylan-pi> so they _DID_ write wannacry in basic!! :-P
<diddledan> it's not written by the graham, but it is on his site. Apparently WannaCry wasn't the first to use the eternalblue exploit: https://www.grahamcluley.com/cryptocurrency-mining-malware-using-wannacrys-nsa-exploit-weeks/
<diddledan> Corebird 1.5 is snapped and released to stable \o/
<DJones> Thought I was being getting a government honour earlier when the post came, a letter from the prime minister....., ... turned out to be election spam
<zmoylan-pi> your moment had come, they wanted you to fix the wannacry problem in the nhs... they'd give you a usb drive and a bike and make you update every system on site... :-P
<DJones> Heh, not a chance, I even refuse to touch my wifes NHS issued laptop running XP
<zmoylan-pi> when that baby gets viruses it doesn't mess around :-D
<DJones> The positive note is, that it'll never get a virus because she never turns it on because its so old and slow, I'm amazed it runs Win XP, probably originally came with Win 3.0
<diddledan> DJones: you too?
<diddledan> I'm supposed to be receiving an invite to the Queen's Garden Tea Party, but I think Mrs Bucket got it instead
<zmoylan-pi> crash the party, they love that
<davmor2> Moo
<DJones> Wierd, walked dog around local fields earlier, council grounds maintenance worker reminded me of http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AorTX727Ycs/Un21gmrMsZI/AAAAAAAAH7U/SDlCP6wG7no/s1600/David-Tennant-Doctor-Who-Davros-1.gif sat on his mower
<DJones> Or maybe that image should be https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/18447227_1124362214335375_3821008792343396692_n.jpg?oh=fed8679df3cc2b8b911870240b6cd8b6&oe=59783922
<DJones> Politics being the latest topic of conversation
<diddledan> oh God, Google are using AI to build better AI
<daftykins> lawl second leak discovered today in the roof
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> sucky nuts
<daftykins> ideal timing though :D
<diddledan> daftykins: I hope it isn't gonna cost a fortunes
<diddledan> fortune
<daftykins> rained all day and they wouldn't have spotted it if i hadn't said rip it all down
<daftykins> plasterboard that is, rather than insulate atop it
<komy> -zr @uop 159.135.26.130 100
<daftykins> *boom*
<komy> 159.135.26.130
<komy> 59.135.26.130
<daftykins> stop it
<komy> wda
<komy> d
<komy> s
<komy> das
<komy> d
<komy> as
<komy> d
<komy> awa
<komy> d
<komy> s
<komy> a
<komy> dw
<daftykins> 3.13.0-119, phew
<diddledan> wat?
<daftykins> that's the new kernel for 14.04
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> SSH isn't *too* bad to home from the hotel tubes, same service and ISP so it's not going far :D
<daftykins> ooh the hotel gateway isn't dropping packets anymore, owner must've rebooted it
<diddledan> or it ran out of memory and rebooted itself via crash
 * daftykins whistles
<daftykins> metered connection mode works quite well on Winders 10
<daftykins> such fun chatting with the guys doing my house job, as they're from my Dad's building firm (he works for that is) - "eh but can you build a window" the guy says "nah but i put *in* Windows" i reply
<zmoylan-pi> somewhere on a builders irc channel there's some bum crack warrior complaining about customers standing over them while they work... :-P
<daftykins> :D got extra network cables put in today \o/ only cost me a round of coffees
<zmoylan-pi> used to drive my brother nuts when he was doing autoglazing or clearing drains... having to consider how close to him they were standing while sometimes using dangerous machinery or trying to talk to him while he was concentrating on tricky parts of the job irked him no end
<daftykins> i feel the same way about progress checks from clients :>
<zmoylan-pi> few people stopped by my desk for a chat when they saw the well used sledge hammer on it...
<daftykins> ah this "Guinness West Indies Porter" is ace
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-18
<knightwise> morning peepz
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> https://www.grahamcluley.com/new-pirates-caribbean-movie-leaked-online-hackers-fail-extort-money/
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/C617-CS4Vsg
<foobarry> don't blame disney.
<foobarry> i wouldn't pay for it either
<foobarry> or watch it if you paid me
<diddledan> I watched the previous ones. mostly because keira knightly is awesome
 * diddledan loves her smile/grin
<diddledan> at least disney managed to keep the start warts under wraps
<diplo> I like the Pirate films, good fun!
<diddledan> Johnny Depp is pretty hilarious
<diplo> He is, I just enjoy films that I can lose myself in
<diddledan> I'm a bit of a promiscuous movie goer. I enjoy mostly anything
<diddledan> gotta love marvel (I know, I suck!) :-p
<diplo> I'm the same, will watch anything, apart from horros of course
<diddledan> ditto. although the alien films are a break from that
<diddledan> I like good crime thrillers of the 90s (don't seem to get them anymore)
<diddledan> like zodiac: what's in the box?!
<diddledan> and the bone collector
<diplo> Not sur eI know Zodiac but yeah aliens / prometheus and thrillers.
 * diplo googles Zodiac
<diplo> Sorry for typos, line is lagging and I'm typing badly because of it
<diddledan> I think I got zodiac confused. I am thinking of a different one
<diddledan> I liked zodiac too :-p
<diddledan> I was thinking of seven (written on the dvd as se7en)
<diplo> Ask my colleage if he was doing anything 'no' - looking on router diags, downloading it full tilt
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> that'll do it :-p
<diplo> Ah Se7ven is a great film, I may watch that tonight now
<diddledan> just pushed another update to corebird - in response to fontconfig vuln announced earlier today on the ubuntu security list
<diplo>   stable:    1.5 (17) 81MB -
<diplo> :)
<diddledan> I believe snapd uses xdeltas so the actual download size if you already had the previous version it'll be a tiny update
<diplo> yeah it literally took under a second
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I wonder how many folk are using the package now?
<diddledan> had a lot of exposure on omgubuntu and the monthly "top 10 apps snapped this month" email
<diplo> Can you not see that ?
<diplo> How many downloads or anything
<diddledan> number of downloads is 574
<diplo> Not bad for your first package, make that 573 because I've installed it on two machines
<diddledan> only a quarter of installations are running 1.5 so far
<diplo> I don't use the other one anymore
<diplo> I didn't know how to update till this morning :)
<diplo> Probably others are the same
<diddledan> it'll update automatically anyway Iirc
<diddledan> if you leave it long enoguh that is
<diplo> ah right, I read refresh and thought that sounds like it'll clear my configs
<diplo> What was wrong with update :)
<Azelphur> I'm having fun with the NHS, decided to go thermonuclear war on them over how they treated my girlfriend \o/
<diddledan> Azelphur: shall. we. play. a. game?
<Azelphur> diddledan: indeed :P
<Azelphur> diddledan: it's another case of NHS Ombudsman ignores evidence, finds against me despite documentation clearly proving his statements are false. I called them and told them I've raised it with PCG, Patients association, my MP, who is looking into it personally and has raised it with Felicity cox, director of NHS England, tomorrow I'll be on the phone to NHS England, and when I run out of places to report them to, I'm going to build a
<Azelphur> website so that people can publish the findings of the ombudsman service
<SuperMatt> what did they do wrong?
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: they refused to treat my girlfriend because she didn't have proof of address, left her to die a slow and painful death from gall stones and starvation/dehydration.
<SuperMatt> wait, we need proof of address to stop ourselves from dying now?
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: yep
<SuperMatt> Is your girlfriend European?
<Azelphur> she's English, born here
<SuperMatt> I take it you were in A&E?
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: we tried A&E numerous times, doctor told us that she most likely had gall stones and that if it was left untreated she could die from a rupture. However doctor said he wasn't authorized to order a scan as this had to be done by a GP, who wouldn't see her without proof of address
<SuperMatt> Christ, that's some hella bad red tape
<Azelphur> yep
<popey> She died!?
<Azelphur> popey: no, she came very close to it
<popey> oh. phew.
<Azelphur> it got to the point where she was sleeping for 16 hours a day, had yellow jaundice, had been unable to hold down fluids for 5 days
<Azelphur> The guy at NHS England finally managed to push her registration through at a different GP branch, who performed a blood test, upon receiving the results she was rushed straight to A&E for severe dehydration, put on fluids, she had to go on a course of antibiotics to reduce the inflammation in her gall bladder before she could undergo emergency surgery to have it removed
<popey> How come she didnt have proof of address?
<Azelphur> popey: she had just moved in with me, my name on the bills
<popey> could she not use previous address?
<Azelphur> popey: nope, house was sold
<popey> blimey.
<SuperMatt> Proof of address is non-existent for great numbers of people
<Azelphur> yep, as you can imagine I'm a little pissed at this point
<popey> i can imagine, yeah.
<popey> Good luck.
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: indeed it is, that's why the NHS contract makes it extremely clear that denying patients due to lack of proof of ID/address is not considered a reasonable ground to refuse treatment
<SuperMatt> I don't understand why an A&E doctor can't order a scan
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: so when NHS England tried to hold the GP to task for it, the GP made up a story about how I was "intimidating, aggressive and overly forceful" during my visit
<Azelphur> as to quite why that justifies leaving my girlfriend to die I dunno, ombudsman seems to think so :)
<SuperMatt> I would imagine that being denied the scan is what made you intimidating, agressive and overly forceful
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: no, I was actually perfectly polite and just stated I'd file a complaint with NHS England
<Azelphur> When I spoke to the Patients Association they said it's actually a regular occurance that GPs will make that accusation in order to deny registration, because they can always get away with it, it's difficult to proove that you didn't do anything. Just so happens that I can proove it :)
<Azelphur> which is why they handed the story to the editors and want to publish it in their newsletter
<SuperMatt> excellent
<Azelphur> indeed, I'll laugh if it actually gets to the point that I build a website for this. I work doing contract development, Python/Django stuff, would only take me a day or two to knock something up, and then launch an adwords campaign for NHS ombudsman lol
<Azelphur> I am grumpy about this one, not gonna let them get off easy :)
<SuperMatt> Why use django when it needs to only be a single page
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: the idea is to build on the report the patients association already submitted, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/16/nhs-watchdog-staff-rude-dismissive-insensitive-says-damning/
<Azelphur> I want to list not just my case, but every other case that has been handled ridiculously, and build up a massive, very public, database.
<Azelphur> with names of case handlers, etc.
<Azelphur> hell hath no fury like a web developer scorned :P
<diddledan> ^ +1
 * SuperMatt nodes sagely
<SuperMatt> I've given up on trying to learn django, and I'm now working solely in Go
<SuperMatt> hell, I've given up on python
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: that's cool, I was thinking of learning, It benchmarks rather well
<Azelphur> that said, Django is hot atm in terms of contract work
<diddledan> this looks fun: https://youtu.be/romB8e5nMp8
<SuperMatt> Go is pretty hot too
<diddledan> SuperMatt: I've seen several people say they moved from python to go
<Azelphur> indeed
<diplo> I read that on reddit yesterday too
<diplo> I've just learnt python too...
 * diplo learns Go instead as well then
<diddledan> go is mindbending
<diplo> Azelphur: Thought you were a bitcoin man ?
<Azelphur> diplo: I am :)
<diddledan> when you've mastered go, like the namesake game, you're a grand master of time and space!
<SuperMatt> It's the first language I've used in a while where I haven't had to keep going back to the docs to remember if it's len(string) or string.len() (or even sizeof(string))
<diddledan> SuperMatt: count() :-p
<SuperMatt> argh!
<Azelphur> diddledan: that looks awesome
<diplo> Why move from python to go than diddledan ? Isn't python more prevelant on systems than go ?
<Azelphur> diplo: Python is today, Go is tomorrow :)
<diplo> Installing right now, been meaning too..
<diddledan> go to python. go straight to python. do not pass go. do not collect Â£200
<diplo> Projects/golang/src/hello$ ./hello
<diplo> hello, world
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Right, I've done enough go for today :P
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: is there any nice frameworks like Django for Go yet?
<diddledan> no
<diddledan> and I don't think there ever will be
<Azelphur> oh? why not
<diddledan> it's part of the philosophy
<diddledan> I read about it a while back, but can't remember much about it
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/johnregehr/status/865182466818150402
<SuperMatt> labstack echo
<SuperMatt> although it's more along the lines of flask
<SuperMatt> Go haven't created their own framework, but labstack echo is one of the better attempts
<Azelphur> popey: just fyi, Alfie Day on LinkedIn is me :)
<Azelphur> got an email saying you joined
<popey> hah
<popey> good old linkedin
<Azelphur> hehe, figure I can endorse you for things
<popey> uhoh
 * diddledan endorses popey for "expert proliferation of ineptitude" ;-p
<diddledan> popey: love you really :-p
<popey> "yay"
<TwistedLucidity> I deleted everything I could off LinkedIn, got sick and tired of recruiters calling me.
<diddledan> I have had complete randoms on linkedin endorse me for things they have no idea about whether I can do or not
<TwistedLucidity> "We've got this great position as a contractor doing C++ in London, 6 months and great benefits"
<TwistedLucidity> 1. I don't do C++; 2. I don't like the idea of contracting; 3. I hate London. Well done. There's 15 minutes of my day wasted.
<diddledan> they like putting into those emails "I appreciate you might not be looking right now, but that can be when the best opportunities come along"
<diddledan> (I had one of those today)
<diddledan> haha: https://twitter.com/sehnaoui/status/865198604696342528
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Whilst funny, there's so many stupid TLDs these days (some of which are eye-wateringly expensive) that it's impossible to domain squat.
<TwistedLucidity> Which I guess is a good thing.
<TwistedLucidity> Kinda.
<foobarry> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7xjqb/who_can_write_the_smallesttidiestcleverest_morse/c07p22i/ what does the while loop do in this?
<foobarry> having trouble deciphering the use of &1 , ? and :
<awilkins> While n is greater than zero, if the lowest bit in buf[n] is 1, add a[n] to t, else add b[n] to t
<awilkins> & is binary and in this case (I presume, it's C, my C is rusty), ? is the tertiary operator and returns the expression to the left of : for true and the right for false
<awilkins> Things are allowed to be truthy in C, so any nonzero value is true
<awilkins> No checking that things are a boolean when doing boolean logic like C#
<foobarry> thx :) i hate obfuscated code
<diddledan> awilkins: isn't the ?: a ternary rather than tertiary? (I thought it was, at least)
<awilkins> Yeah, probably. Mixmacation of wordifles
<diddledan> although I don't know what the difference in naming would mean
<diddledan> mexican words? :-p
<langlee> I am using 16.04 is there a replacement for imagewriter
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-19
<diplo> langlee_: Apparently etcher is good, not used it myself yet https://etcher.io
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<motionUK> MotionUK
<langlee_> diplo: Thanks for the info,  it seems to be just what I wanted --cheers--
<diplo> You're welcome :)
<diddledan> we got thunder
<diddledan> why does my5 (formally demand5) require flash?! >.<
<diddledan> they say on their site of windows requirements: Windows: Ideally Windows 7 or 8, but it should also work on older versions such as XP and Vista.
<diddledan> gotta love the outdated docs
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/kfVsfOSbJY0
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/wayne5540/status/865652321623068674
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-20
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<penguin42> is anyone actually getting new #1 coins - they're very rare up here
 * hamitron has 1
<penguin42> yeh I've had 1 so far
<hamitron> I'm refusing to spend it :)
<hamitron> although, I try avoid spending all my coins ;)
<penguin42> 1well yes, but some more than others
<hamitron> aye
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-21
<rundata> Hey people
<penguin42> hey
<rundata> I need a bit of help man. You got 5?
<penguin42> well, not technically a help channel, but ask
<rundata> I've loaded ubuntu live onto a USB stick and Booted it on my Asus t100-ta transformer style "laptop" and when x loads it goes all weird man
<rundata> Also its cool I know man. Just wondered if someone, somewhere somehow, some when.. Lol.. Might be able to help
<penguin42> can you define 'all weird'
<rundata> Anyway. Basically ubuntu loads x. X (I assume) decides to assign the left hand side of the screens boundry to be about 500 or so pixels right of the edge of the screen
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> is this the internal LCD?
<rundata> And like . "wrap" the rest so that the furthest right of the screen is actually the first 500 (or so) horizontal pixels of the screen
<rundata> I pray that is somewhat comprehendable lol
<penguin42> yeh sounds like it's just wrapped a bit
<rundata> Sorry..  Pretty fucked on coke and trying to configure this shit to work... Not a good combo. Or even a good choice but oh well.. Here we are lol
<penguin42> yeh I guessed
<rundata> I've literally never encountered this shit before.
<rundata> X not working.  Fine. Error logs. W.e fix it
<penguin42> rundata: Is this the internal LCD that's screwy or an external?
<rundata> This technically works. No errors. Much stress lol
<rundata> Internal bro
<rundata> However... Additionally. It randomly adjusts the screen orientation
<rundata> Also the capacitive touch display is borked
<penguin42> which ubuntu version?
<rundata> Dropped it and smashed screen lol. In windows I've just disabled the touch screen but not sure how to replicate ij n li ux
<rundata> Lijn
<penguin42> notes, X generally doesn't work on smashed screens
<rundata> Yeah.. On a bloody tablet now desperately trying to get help. Sorry for shut autocorrect
<rundata> Can't I like... Somehow maybe..
<rundata> I have an idea
<rundata> The touch screen is detected as a USB device.... One cable comes off the screen
<rundata> A ribbon
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> rundata: So anyway, my guess on the display is it's upset by the 1366x768 res - I've seen similar problems on some others; I'd try fighting with an xrandr line
<rundata> 5 fuckers on that ribbon are a USB right? It would appear so
<penguin42> rundata: as for the touchscreen hmm - I'd expect you can probably configure that out not tried it though
<rundata> You reckon its possible to physically cut the ribbon in the right place
<rundata> Mebbeh
<penguin42> bit drastic
<rundata> Risky but what have I got to lose lol
<rundata> I've already broke the micro USB port (the only port that acts as a charging socket)
<penguin42> is there anything left of this poor thing
<rundata> I might stream this shit lol. Really need as oscilloscope. Maybe I can use a 5v motor and guess pins 1-5 from 5v to ground lol
<rundata> Not much man. I broke up with my ex (random fact, linked to next titbit tho..), so I kinda went postal a bit.. (Newfact also due my first child(girl) in 8 days!!)  And she pulled the "yoiu will never see your daughter" card. So yeah.. Its pretty fucked
<rundata> Also yay me lo!
<penguin42> suggests sleep may be the best way of dealing with this machine
<rundata> But yeah.. Technically.. You reckon the ribbon from screen (only link from physical screen to board) holds a uan portion I could just exactoknife away?
<rundata> I dunno why I'm asking.  Lol. We both know I'm gonna regret this in the morning lol
<rundata> Fancy seeing if it works?
<rundata> Just need a 5v something.. !maybe a usb flash drive! That could work
<rundata> That or......
<rundata> What you reckon my chances of manually charging the lithium battery without blowing my hands off are?
<rundata> I literally know you electricity flows. In a direction. Somehow. And things can. Spark. I once fished a bit of exploded light bulb out of a Pixar logo style lamp. Forgetting, or not realising, I had to turn off the mains
<rundata> Literally wired a solar panel to a car battery with a diode on positive to stop back flow
<rundata> Anyone know someone I can hire? Im pretty sure I can't achieve anything I've set out to do tonight lo?
<rundata> Lol
<rundata> Like. I could literally pay a random Facebook person to solder a new micro usb port on
<rundata> But fuck it. Let's build a charging circuit cos its too hard to solder it myself (too small, shakes, twisted up and wrecked).....(me that is lp
<rundata> So fuck it
<rundata> Let's wire a charger direct to the battery yeah?
<rundata> Phone chargers work when plugged  into the USB of a phone right? And you can get chargers that charge a spare battery
<rundata> Laptop only has 5v 2A coming in... Maybe if I just wire a phone charger directly to the battery.... It should work right?
<rundata> Penguin42 ?
<penguin42> it'll have gone through a DC-DC converter etc before the battery
<rundata> You reckon the charging circuit in a mobile charger could charge a laptop battery that charges off of a 5v phone USB charger directly?
<penguin42> no
<rundata> Hmm probably yeah.. I bet those chargers can't charge a phone directlt the way the send charge to a battery inserted into it
<penguin42> the phone 'chargers' are normally just USB powersupplies - all the charging circuitry is in the phone
<penguin42> and/or phone/battery
<rundata> Sneaky gets probably reversed the charging circuit and made a cheap version that does the as!e
<rundata> Yeah same input
<rundata> Different dc-dc converter to rejig the voltage and amps and timing for the battery
<rundata> So... Do I risk losing a battery (possibly also a limb) and fudge a charging circuit with no soldering iron. No knowledge of electrical engineering and a head full of narcotics
<rundata> Or go sleep
<rundata> .... Shall I record it?
<rundata> Lol
<penguin42> sleep seems the sanest thing
<rundata> Well you say that
<rundata> But how awesome woul (literally, probably, solely for me)
<rundata> Would it be.. Realised the "would it be" part should have been after the brackets.. I failed
 * rundata commits the Japanese word for self disgraced suicide
<rundata> Wanna say haricari harycari? Harry carry? :o
<rundata> Sleep you say?
<rundata> :p
<rundata> Penguiin42 so sorry dude... Lol bet this channel doesn't see as much shit spoken even during class times when hundreds of students come in asking a solution for an obscure question asked by a sneaky ninja guru teacher
<rundata> Cocaine. A hell of a drug
<rundata> Lol
<penguin42> I did consider pointing that out, but there didn't seem much point
<penguin42> anyway, the original question of a skewed X was reasonable enough
<rundata> Lol. Soz man. Been about since I was a kid. I literally am ashamed I've had to come back on irc and ask this.. Also happy cos I've spammed a few old mates I haven't spoke to in years
<rundata> But hey lol
<penguin42> I've not seen that one before, but  X breakages with 1366 displays is not too unusual, and tablets are a bit odd
<rundata> Righto.. What yuou reckon could be skewing the display drawing area? Personally I don't think it's to do with the broken screen
<rundata> Mainly cos up until 3/4 of the way through boot. It displays correctly. Then.. Ahh! Even the cli goes skewed
<rundata> So its not x
<penguin42> rundata: 1366 isn't divisible by 8 - it confuses some things
<rundata> It's something loaded (not gone a say it but perhaps... The display driver? Lol) after the basic bootloader is done doing its shizzle?
<penguin42> yeh
<rundata> Brainstorm. Possible solutions?
<penguin42> last time I hit it (quite a while ago) I found a 1366x758 mode line and hacked it with xrandr
<rundata> Force a display mode within "normal"/" expected " ranges?
<penguin42> or just give it a 1360 res
<rundata> Soz I wish I could try it now. But the whole USB pott borked. Smashed out me tree etx
<penguin42> rundata: It might be something specific to how that tablet drives its LCD
<rundata> Etc
<rundata> Mebbe. I fear it might be tbh.. But this is a new path to test.
 * penguin42 wonders if this works like the balmer peak; I wouldn't know
<rundata> Bal!er peak?
<rundata> Ffs who puts a ! Next to m
<penguin42> rundata: https://xkcd.com/323/
<rundata> Onscreen shitboard moarliek
<rundata> Lmao I remember now haha
<rundata> Best coding I ever did was on methcathinone
<rundata> Or maybe methlyaminopropysomething
 * penguin42 sticks to chocolate
<rundata> 5 days straight. No sleep. Wrote a pure code website
<rundata> Php SQL ajax css
<penguin42> that explains a lot about many websites
<rundata> Literally it was a pixel perfect clone of the LCARs system in star trek (next gen in particular lol)
<penguin42> perhaps earl grey might be more effective at helping you get some sleep
<rundata> So awesome. I used pingdom.com speed test and tweaked it using the suggestions
<rundata> Eventually it said "your website is 100% faster than all websites tested"
<rundata> Granted they probably round up and I was simply in the top percentile
<rundata> But still. Mcat
<rundata> Hell of a drug
<rundata> Lol :p
<rundata> Moral of the story is....
<rundata> Don't do drugs and irc. You will literally make almost no sense. Gratuitously over (and mis)use the word "literally" and mildly entertain whilst simultaneously pissing off a few people trying to just irc
<rundata> Also hi
<rundata> Lol
<penguin42> erm yes
<rundata> So.. To turn to more non computer topics.. Being as noone is here to moan that we are off channel topic
<rundata> Never any drugs ever?
<rundata> Tried I mean
<penguin42> nope, and that is getting off topic very much
<rundata> Good man (I assume male) never go this route lol
<rundata> Might feel great. But FFS. Just look at me. Even over irc I manage to be a shining example of why not to di druga
<rundata> Do drugs.
<rundata> Or use tablets without checking spelling
<rundata> *drops mic and walks out*
<rundata> Sorry mike
<rundata> .....Terrible hahaha
<penguin42> yes, using tablets while on tablets is probably bad
<rundata> Not tablets man
<rundata> Peruvian marching powder
<rundata> As bad as, but subtly different than tablet forms of similar stimuilants. Even itself taken "per os" has a much lower level of bioavailability
<rundata> I'm totally gonna get kick banned lol
<rundata> Let it be known.. As much as I enjoy stupid stuff. I highly recommend against drugs and maintain that an IRC channel dedicated to helping people with issues with and discussing this GS ra
<rundata> Related to Ubuntu
<rundata> Is probably not gonna be cool with everyone lol
<rundata> As such I'll shut the hell up and hope noone ever reads their irc logs
<rundata> The father the sun and a holey toast. Arm sucks
<rundata> Please never remind me of this haha
 * penguin42 will try to only use it when I need money
<rundata> You take buttcoins? Lol
<rundata> I can pay in sex
<penguin42> best not
<rundata> Lol yeah
<penguin42> anyway, sleep
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<santhust>  I have noticed automatic downloads from cdce.sin002.internap.com. Multiple times. I do not understand what for it is, why it occurs, or how to stop it. I have disabled all auto updates, even security updates. Recently, I even did $ sudo systemctl disable apt-daily.timer. But the said auto download occurs even now. Any clues? Suggestions how to stop this?
<penguin42> ah, isn't it quiet
<zmoylan-pi> sound issues on linux again? :-P
<zmoylan-pi> _OR_ you finally conquered your web browser and no videos autoplay anymore? :-)
<penguin42> well coincidentally I did have yes; but if you've got scrollback to about 2am it'll make more sense
<zmoylan-pi> yes, i saw that earlier....
<diddledan> that was .. interesting, penguin42
<zmoylan-pi> you don't get the good old late night rantings of yore... :-P
<diddledan> no, shauno ragequit
<zmoylan-pi> i still feel bad about that...
<foobarry> why?
<foobarry> wasn't that about 2yrs ago now?
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: so you should ;)
 * zmoylan-pi goes out and finds a mac user to give an ice cream to... they've suffered enough... :-P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> weyhey the result of PIA's funded OpenVPN audit - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/16/openvpn_security_audit/
<penguin42> daftykins: Hmm good; but hmm - so one audit found nothing and the other made two CVEs ?
<daftykins> makes you wonder!
<daftykins> already patched, too
<zmoylan-pi> unless... someone got to the auditors to cover their tracks... *dun* *dun* *dun*
<Azelphur> Woo, I can add to the list of crazy stuff I've broken again...and now, systemd-boot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0uCQJHqkEk
<diddledan> why are you using systemdboot?!
<Azelphur> diddledan, recommended for ArchLinux, and it's supposed to be faster
<diddledan> "faster" how fast do you need a menu to be?!
<Azelphur> diddledan, maybe GRUB would be the better answer, or at the very least an alternative to this brokenness
<penguin42> Azelphur: That looks like a disagreement about terminal type/width?!
<Azelphur> penguin42, I'd agree :)
<penguin42> diddledan: A lot of people never liked Grub 2 that's been in use for a while (last 5 years ish?) - the grub 2 config files are ludicrously complex, I'm not sure if systemd-boot is any better
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-14
<zmoylan-pi> huzzah \o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * zmoylan-pi waves quietly so as not to gain the attention of the monday out there... o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Nafallo> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
 * diddledan mumbles something incoherent about monday
<SuperMatt> I resemble that remark
 * Nafallo mumbles something about annoying neighbours drilling in the walls
<daftykins> diddledan: huh? was it dead?
<diddledan> yeah it died on thursday
<daftykins> wutcha do? :o
<diddledan> flashing while on a wonky psu which decided to die immediately after the flash
<diddledan> psu is replaced. bios reflashed using emergency mode
<zmoylan-pi> henceforth the pc will be known as jesus... :-P
<daftykins> cor thats some rough luck
<daftykins> diddledan: what's the emergency mode? dual BIOS board?
<diddledan> nope, there was enough bios still intact that I could hold ctrl+home to cause it to probe usb thingies for a fat32 filesystem containing an amiboot.rom file which it flashes automatically
<daftykins> hah, jammy
<diddledan> apparently there's two parts of the bios - the boot block and the main payload. if the boot block is still intact then it can do a blind flash like that
<daftykins> yeah you often see an update only erasing the main portion
<Nafallo> you shouldn't put nails in PSUs. just saying.
<nucc1> daftykins: do you use dnsmasq for dhcp on your router?
<daftykins> i don't run a custom one capable
<nucc1> hmmm, ok. i noticed that my desktop loses connection when it's renewing dhcp lease, and i think this is the first time i experienced this. or maybe i never just noticed it before
<daftykins> any reason to run DHCP at home?
<nucc1> well, it's easy...
<nucc1> i'll just set a long lease
<daftykins> i assume we're talking wired, here?
<nucc1> nah, wifi. gave up on wires.
<nucc1> mesh router, easily test 200+ mbps, which covers my internet and then some
<daftykins> ugh
<nucc1> mesh wifi access points... custom router.
<daftykins> i am so disappointed :)
<daftykins> yeah fan of buzzwords much? :)
<daftykins> must be a driver quirk
<nucc1> i'll be interested in ethernet if they could do something better than 1G
<nucc1> the only time i need those speeds, ethernet is too slow (when I'm moving virtual machines)
<nucc1> what driver quirk? right now, my PC is connected at 867mbps
<nucc1> my internet is only 200mbps
<nucc1> and i rarely need to transfer super large files, so wires are totally unnecessary
<daftykins> typically the kind that results in the tripping up at DHCP lease renegotiation time, like you just said
<daftykins> you do realise that 2.5, 5 and 10Gbps are a thing, yeah?
<daftykins> certainly agree though, throwing VMs and HD video around sure does crawl
<daftykins> even at 110MB/sec :(
<nucc1> i mean, won't any computer lose connection when it is renewing a dhcp lease?
<nucc1> we've been stuck at 1gbps for a decade. and no, 2.5G and 5G ethernet aren't yet at a price point and form factor that a home user would consider
<daftykins> no
<daftykins> yeah they are actually, because between points you only need the NICs and a cable
<daftykins> pretty cheap to grab a couple off ebay
<nucc1> I don't see any desktop 8-port 2.5G ethernet switches
<daftykins> just pointed out you don't need a switch because not every host would need to have the upgraded speed
<nucc1> why would i want a point-to point system?
<nucc1> and if i had a switch, it would presumably be back compatible with 1G
<daftykins> 'cause often you'd only really have two hosts you want the high speed between, then the rest can be more basic
<nucc1> heh. I'm not about to start fiddling with cables when i want to transfer files. that would put me off the entire activity
<nucc1> it's like the industry gave up too.
<daftykins> you wouldn't, it'd be a secondary subnet permanently connected that you just map drives over
<nucc1> i admire your enthusiasm :)
<daftykins> my goodness you are chatting a lot of rubbish considering you don't seem to know about this stuff
<nucc1> I do know about the stuff.
<nucc1> I just value convenience.
<daftykins> then why is this pretty simple suggestion tripping you up so?
<nucc1> it's not tripping me up, it's just not worth the effort to me.
<nucc1> i'll happily buy the next iteration of wifi accesspoints that improve speed
<nucc1> or if they ship a 5 or 8 port ethernet switch that supports the new speeds and fits behind my set top box, i'll get one
<daftykins> two cheap NICs, cat6 or better single cable run - job done, 10Gb - but then you don't have the storage necessarily capable of using it
<nucc1> yea, i'm not saying it's not possible, but that setup is not for me.
<daftykins> you already said you're on 866Mb -ac, which means you're on 2:2 stream low end -ac, not even the top tier of current wifi specs
<nucc1> Indeed, when i need to move my VMs, i just use usb3
<daftykins> i have the same and see ~50MB/sec tops in the same room, so under half what gigabit LAN does
<nucc1> it's not too often. example, i did the move last week while adding a new ssd into my machine.
<daftykins> sneakernet in your own home, bit ghetto
<nucc1> please tell me about your snazzy wifi :)
<nucc1> because i've never felt like my 866 mbps wifi was a bottleneck
<nucc1> especially when compared to my Virgin Media connection.
<nucc1> I've also found when gaming, that when virgin media is not in the mood, it doesn't matter whether i'm on wifi or ethernet
<daftykins> have you had a long day or something?
<nucc1> I see it similar to camera pixels. it's not the number of pixels, it's the quality of them.
<daftykins> 50MB/sec is a file tranfer between a wired and wireless host
<nucc1> which is plenty of speed except when you're dealing with large files
<daftykins> which is when wired to wired is nice @ 110MB/sec but still crawling for HD video and VMs yeah
<nucc1> i've done the whole wires everywhere thing before, i put in this current router (Linksys Velop) in February of this year.
<nucc1> wifi is now good enough in my view.
<nucc1> I stopped bothering with video files too.
<nucc1> I used to spend more on blurays than cable, netflix, and amazon combined cost me each month
<nucc1> so that need for speed is no longer there for me
<nucc1> if i suddenly ended up with a 1G Internet link, then i'd have to seriously reconsider using ethernet
<nucc1> maybe in 2025 or something, or whenever virgin media feels the need
<daftykins> it's unlikely anything you'd do would make use of it - as a friend in Tokyo has discovered
<nucc1> Yes, but I'd want it just for the fun of having it
<daftykins> much like the gimmicky mesh setup i imagine
<nucc1> No, the mesh setup was a real upgrade for me.
<nucc1> Value coverage and stability over headline speed.
<nucc1> I could hardly care about maxing out my internet when i'm using my phone in the conservatory
<nucc1> but i can easily stream any video i want with no dropouts
<nucc1> on the PC i'm sitting at now, it's got line of sight with the router, so I get pretty much as good as I can get speed for wifi
<nucc1> which again, more than adequate for everything, save the once or twice a year transfer of big files
<nucc1> anyway, i've just set my DHCP lease to 1 week.
<nucc1> so connection dropouts should be less frequent now :d
<daftykins> beats working out the real reason i'm sure, especially if the expiry time is when you're asleep
<nucc1> I could just set a static IP too.
<nucc1> I think this is normal.
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> neither is working hard to justify choosing a slower option then complaining about speed xD
<daftykins> have a great evening - and don't seek me out again, please
<nucc1> oh well... my apologies. I only wanted to know if this was normal. It's not
<nucc1> but i'm fine with my workaround.
<nucc1> it's not a mission critical network or anything
<nucc1> fwiw, microsoft has a pretty good guide what should happen (IP is renewed halfway through the lease): https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-2000-server/cc958935(v%3dtechnet.10) . There's no way that speed has anything to do with this. So the DHCP theory is moot.
<ali1234> do you get the same IP at renewal time?
<nucc1> Yes, I can see that the IP is being obtained.
<nucc1> ali1234: I am beginning to suspect that it may be related to my work VPN.
<nucc1> like, if the lease renewal happens to fall while i'm connected to vpn, then it fails.
<nucc1> and then later (like tonight) when I'm not on VPN, it is at the end of the IP and must disconnect and start anew.
<ali1234> very possible
<nucc1> I tested with a 1h lease, and i saw the renewal happen at 30 minutes.
<ali1234> do you know what a split tunnel means?
<nucc1> yes. unfortunately, i don't have admin control over my work tunnel, and a full tunnel is enforced
<ali1234> there you go then. your DHCP request is probably being sent over the VPN tunnel when you are connected to it
<ali1234> that will of course fail
<nucc1> Yea. I'll verify this tomorrow.
<ali1234> then when the lease expires, you'll be disconnected from the LAN, and so disconnected from the VPN, at which point DHCP will work again
<nucc1> indeed. i'm afraid of thinking i've seen this happen before (memory can be untrustworthy), but I'll set a 1 hour lease time tomorrow again and see if my vpn drops after 1 hour
<nucc1> (i mean today) :d
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-15
<brobostigon> morning boy and girls.
<Nafallo> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<Nafallo> you've already said that ;-)
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> ok, the Gnome guys officially jumped the shark now: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/05/nautilus-remove-ability-launch-binaries-apps
<SuperMatt> Like I've said, I don't mind as long as there is some way to quickly create a desktop file and add it to the laucher
<SuperMatt> TBH, there's no reason for app devs shipping a tarball not to provide a .desktop file.
<zmoylan-pi> just email yourself the binary and launch by double clicking the attachment... :-P
<m0nkey_> works for me
<awilkins> The new Nautilus in 17.10 / 18.04 is a real regression in terms of performance from my POV too
<awilkins> Not sure if it's that or GVFS
<awilkins> But you revisit a network folder that hasn't changed at all and it takes AGES to relist it all
<diplo> awilkins: 100% - I've been meaning to investigate that myself, thought it was my setup
<diplo> sucks
<awilkins> Also the network browser for windows shares no longer works but dunno if that's because my NAS is being rubbish and SMB1 flavoured
<diplo> Most likely, we're having issues on client sites, so just forcing protocol = SMB2
<diplo> Right home time
<diddledan> m0nkey_: you're back! you been awol in this room for a while :-p
<diddledan> daftykins will be pleased
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> the band is back together
<diddledan> \o/
 * diddledan pokenprods zmoylan-pi 
<daftykins> m0nkey_: did that meanie zmoylan-pi say something nasty to you? ;)
<m0nkey_> forgot to rejoin all this time
<daftykins> :D all well?
 * zmoylan-pi waves o/
<daftykins> a wild zmoylan-pi!
 * brobostigon waves with his right hand, holding a new gadget in his left hand, a new gadget he bought in his local technology store this afternoon with a lady friend of his.
<zmoylan-pi> a selfie stick!
 * brobostigon puts a sticker on zmoylan-pi's forehead, with "blasphemer" written on it.
<brobostigon> selfie stick's suck v
<brobostigon> selfie stick's suck balls.
<zmoylan-pi> you need to read the selfie sticks manual if that ever happened to you...
<brobostigon> new gadget day, :), comparing that to a selfie stick is blasphemy.
 * brobostigon does the dalek voice, :)
<zmoylan-pi> think how much more photogenic the daleks would be if they replaced the plunger with a selfie stick...
 * brobostigon aims his magical sonic screwdriver at zmoylan-pi with the spell 'personal cold snap' readied to be cast.
 * zmoylan-pi extends my selfie stick and flips sonic screwdriver reverse polarity switch...
 * brobostigon casts his spell, and causes zmoylan-pi 1d6 cold damage.
 * zmoylan-pi points to irish race on character sheet which adds +2 cold damage resistance...
<daftykins> and +5 rain tolerance? :P
<zmoylan-pi> +11 alcohol poisoning resistance...
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> hint: don't turn on the cooker when you mean to turn on the oven. especially when there's junk on the cooker that can burn
<daftykins> ruh roh!
<daftykins> hey check out B&Q's handy store stock checker - https://i.imgur.com/7x4hL0A.png
<diddledan> just pop to waymouth
<zmoylan-pi> surely you have access to 10 stout men and a ship?
<diddledan> I like how they also include jersey
<zmoylan-pi> maplins and argos in ireland used to want me to pop to uk for nearest shop with stock
<daftykins> yeah, as if i'd wanna go there ;D
<diddledan> haha
<daftykins> nowt on the Isle of Man? :D
<zmoylan-pi> and even when i'd nail the store down with a shop code it would never let me check my nearest stores stock levels but would let me check other irish stores
<zmoylan-pi> nah, even argos wouldn't send you to the isle of man...
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not sure there's a regular service to irish republic
<daftykins> nah doubt it
<diddledan> interesting how I caught the potential fire before the smoke detector did
<daftykins> does the main one to Anglesey go from Dubs?
<daftykins> yep just seen it on maps
<zmoylan-pi> you'd have to hijack the ferry... set course to the isle of man or this barman will regret it!!! if we land on isle of man we'll _ALL_ regret it... :-P
<daftykins> hang on google maps claims a ferry route to Douglas from Dublin!
<daftykins> apparently it has a 'toll road' :D
<zmoylan-pi> might be a summer or weekly service
<zmoylan-pi> dublin to douglas once per week... https://www.directferries.com.au/ferries_from_isle_of_man_to_ireland.htm
<zmoylan-pi> i knew there wasn't enough traffic from this side of the border...
<daftykins> two per week from Belfast!
<daftykins> ugh cat trolling me at the office window again
<zmoylan-pi> ireland is celebrating it's shiny new ferry bypassing uk and heading directly to france... 8km of parking spaces on it... http://www.en.portnews.ru/news/257097/
<zmoylan-pi> the loss in sales of brekkie rolls will alone crush the uk... :-P
<daftykins> pics! http://www.dublinport.ie/news/worlds-largest-short-sea-ro-ro-vessel-mv-celine-christened-dublin-port/
<daftykins> https://afloat.ie/media/k2/items/cache/3de1c1c873b77c02e3c70a0794f868a0_L.jpg
<daftykins> that's probably the kind of thing our ferry company should've bought instead of the lemon
<zmoylan-pi> i'll reserve my judgement till it's served a few years in the irish sea... it tends to chew ships up and spit them out... we had a high speed catamaran ferry and it was damaged sailing to ireland the first time in a summer storm...
<daftykins> :D sounds familiar
<zmoylan-pi> first time i was on it and it hit log in sea and had to limp to port
<zmoylan-pi> i do regret i never got to travel on the hydrofoil that used to do dublin liverpool run in 80s
<zmoylan-pi> you were strapped in like a fun fair and the voyages even on a good day were an adventure... but quicker than air as no security checks travel to airport outside city...
<daftykins> there used to be one of those from here too, but before my time :)
<zmoylan-pi> shame the chunnel took out the hovercraft service too
<daftykins> i never did try the one from Portsmouth to the Isle of Wight, should do some day :D
<diddledan> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155808940014620&set=a.211750699619.132787.586969619&type=3&size=1440%2C822&source=13&player_origin=unknown
<diddledan> does that work?
<daftykins> login prompt
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> sucky nuts
<diddledan> how about https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/nti5eHpC/image.png
<daftykins> works
<daftykins> and also tee-hee
<diddledan> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1727824/videoplayer/vi3635854105
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-16
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi
<diplo> Morning all
<Gargoyle> Anyone experienced a bug with gnome network manager and the openvpn plugin where there is no save button. I see a green flash for a second in the top right corner but it vanishes and just leaves a slight outline.
<Gargoyle> 18.04
<markie^> any1 round#
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-17
<knightwise> morning peepz
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon , how are you today
<brobostigon> mostly asleep still, but ok, just made my first coffee of the day. and you?
<knightwise> been up for a while. Working for the company but using my linux machine today. Running the company apps in a Win10 vm
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> https://twitter.com/scraliontis/status/997004600111779840 oh dear.
<diplo> Morning all
<Gargoyle> Anyone got any clues on how I debug something on my network causing an address to be added to my route table?
<Gargoyle> I have: [LAN:192.168.x.x] => [192.168.x.1 - Gateway 1 - 10.0.0.4] => [10.0.0.1 - Gateway 2 - 81.x.x.x] => DSL MODEMS in Bridge
<Gargoyle> When it happens, I can't reach the web interface on Gateway 2 (but other net traffic is happy). Eg:- https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Hss75s5zd2/
<daftykins> Gargoyle: is the 10.x VPN related?
<Gargoyle> daftykins: Sorry. Nope.
<Gargoyle> Figured it out. The machine had a stuck 10.0.0.2 address from somewhere.
<daftykins> sometimes they're OpenVPN related
<Gargoyle> I do have other VPN related issues though. :/
<Gargoyle> if I open the vpn and immediately ping a host - it's fine. 3-5 seconds after I stop pinging, traffic stops flowwing over the vpn and it's just all locked up! :/
<daftykins> what are the endpoints?
<Gargoyle> That is a Cisco AnyConnect to RackSpace
<Gargoyle> ha ha. Searching on google and someone had a similar problem because they actually named their machine "localhost" which confused the hell out of windows! :D
<daftykins> xD
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-18
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> What a fine day it is
<brobostigon> yep, knock off early and sit in a pub garden instead, :)
<zmoylan-pi> no no, simply have a customer or 3 who runs a pub and do service calls on a friday. knock off early and hey, while you're there... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points if a customer runs a kebab or pizza place nearby... :-D
<brobostigon> :) that works.
<SuperMatt> If those were my customers, I would need to replace my wardrobe with much larger clothes
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-19
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<HeavilyDressed> I ate a sandwich for the wedding - what you do other than Unity ? Oh wait .....
<HeavilyDressed> No ?
<HeavilyDressed> ah, Anyone see eurovision, then ?
<HeavilyDressed> perhaps the colonial hat was a bit too much today.
<HeavilyDressed> bye
<ali1234> got to say... the android-studio snap works great. i installed it and made an app today and everything just worked.
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-20
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<knightwise> hey dudes :)
<knightwise> whats geeking today ?
<brobostigon> morning.
<knightwise> Looking at a bunch of corrupted USB sticks, whenever i appear to use Etcher on them , Etcher writes some wierd partitions that render them kinda useless aside from booting the OS that I burned on it
<knightwise> Managed to fix some of them by using a command line paritioning tool on Windows
<knightwise> Very strange
<knightwise> Gparted doesnt acutally see the partitions either
<brobostigon> odd
<zmoylan-pi> maybe use something like dd to overwrite the corrupted mess left behind?
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: i thinki'm gonna try that
<knightwise> Could it be its making an uefi partition  ?but Gparted should be able to spot that , right ?
<brobostigon> dd it dev/null, :)
