#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-01
<sittisal> is there enybody in there?
<lmanul> Yeah :)
<sittisal> so wath about dapper graphics changes?
<sittisal> ubutu has the same ugly desktop since 4.10
<sittisal> in 2006...
<theCore> hello all!
<plb> anyone know of an application to make custom mouse themes?
<plb> I was thinking of doing something like this....
<plb> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=135832
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-02
<Tm_T> hallo!
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-04
<Tm_T> fiuuuuu
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-05
<theCore> hello world
<neoginn> yo
<neoginn> anyone know where i can download ubuntu artwork???
<Garuma> hello everyone (or good night)
<Garuma> is there a member of the art team here ?
<lapo> hi
<lapo> hey guys, I've seen te dappericons preview, nice set, but considering that more and more apps are adopting a tango stylish icon why don't following tango guidelines?
<lapo> those icons can be made tangoish with small tweakings and the whole desktop experience will benefit from it
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-02-26
<h4writer> kwwii, still not online?:p
<h4writer> I guess not
<h4writer> goodbye, I'm heading for my bed.
<kwwii> moin all
<klepas> moin andreasn
<andreasn> hi klepas
<lapo> hi
<MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
<lapo> yo MacSlow
<lapo> any 3d accelerated news? :-)
<MacSlow> what (CC)-licence is the tangerine set published under... I've a hard time finding that info...
<lapo> ciao andreasn
<andreasn_> what's up?=
<MacSlow> I used the "left" arrow as a button in my talk I did at FOSDEM this weekend and now people want to see my .odp published... but for the 3rd-party artwork used I want to give proper credit
<MacSlow> hi lapo, andreasn!
<andreasn_> MacSlow: how was fosdem?
<lapo> MacSlow: cc-by-sa
<lapo> MacSlow: like tango
<lapo> MacSlow: iirc the arrows are ulisse's work (derived from jimmac's?)
<MacSlow> andreasn_ informative, sweet, thrilling and as always exhausting
<lapo> MacSlow: btw you can check the metadatas in the svg
<MacSlow> lapo, I generated a png form the svg added a bit of text in gimp and saved it as png
<MacSlow> to be useable as "button" in my OO-presentation
<MacSlow> so I created a derivative
<lapo> MacSlow: yep, so it needs to be cc-by-sa as well
<lapo> MacSlow: I can confirm that the tangerine arrows are ulisse's work
<MacSlow> andreasn, I finally met Michael Meeks, Kristian Hoegsberg, pippin, Nat Friedman and Michael Daenzer in person
<MacSlow> andreasn and so many more... it was totally wicked!
<andreasn_> those are cool dudes, I think I've met most of them in person
<lapo> MacSlow: c'mon amaze your friends with some new sweet stuff! :-)
<MacSlow> andreasn, also ran into the people behind nouveau again this year... impressive what they put out with the little information they have for nv-hardware
<andreasn_> MacSlow: yeah, that looks like a amazing project, more free beer to them!
<MacSlow> lapo, ok... I think a README file, with proper credits, with my talk's .odp in a tarball will do?
<lapo> MacSlow: I don't really know I'm not a license expert at all :-/
<lapo> if it would depend on me I'd release everything with x license
<andreasn_> what was your talk about?
<MacSlow> and it looks like this year will be very demanding for me
<MacSlow> andreasn  http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=18681
<Ubugtu> OpenOffice.org bug 18681 in cs "Wrong characters in imported Word document" [Defect,Resolved: later] 
<MacSlow> andreasn, what's ulisse's real name?
<lapo> MacSlow: Ulisse Perusin
<MacSlow> lapo, thx
<andreasn> lapo should know, it's his cousin
<MacSlow> ah ok
<lapo> eheh
<nysosym> hi there :)
<kwwii> howdy nysosym, all
<nysosym> hi kwwii :)
<nysosym> how are u?
<nysosym> very nice wallpapers
<kwwii> nysosym: good, thanks :-) and you?
<nysosym> http://www.hamaddarwish.com/
<nysosym> also good :)
<nysosym> what do u do kwwii?
<kwwii> trying to figure out why the gnome session splash has a crapy line around it
<kwwii> at first I thought it was a matter of using a colormapped pic
<kwwii> but that is not the case
<nysosym> as far as i know, can usplash only have a 1bit alpha channel, maybe is this the problem?
<lapo> yo kwwii, nice work with gdm and usplash
<kwwii> lapo: thanks...the gdm is still underway
<kwwii> and the session splash simply sucks
<lapo> kwwii: the session splash should die imho (it's fast enough now, it could be killed)
<kwwii> lapo: yeah, that exact point makes testing is hard
<kwwii> apparently it is a transparency issue
<lapo> kwwii: for gdm please consider putting the session and language buttons back under the input box as it was in...uhm 5.10
<kwwii> freaky, never seen this before
<lapo> kwwii: can't you just kill it?
<nysosym> kwwii: see my post above ;)
<lapo> kwwii: it's a lot of work, for uhm...2 seconds? :-)
<kwwii> nysosym: yeah, that guy made the vista pic wallpapers
<kwwii> lapo: not really my decision  ;-)
<kwwii> yet :p
<nysosym> kwwii: no, i mean that usplash only can have a 1bit alpha channel
<kwwii> nysosym: the usplash is 8 bit anyway
<kwwii> this thing uses 24bit pngs but can't display the transparency in them corretly
<lapo> kwwii: the usplash is really nice, you have a tiny bit of banding on the "ubuntu" gradient tho
<kwwii> yeah, it was a trade-off for more glow
<lapo> kwwii: did you try adding some dithering?
<kwwii> lapo: it seems you've been busy drawing some pretty nice icons :-)
<lapo> kwwii: not so busy with icons, I'm slacking a lot latelly :-)
<kwwii> lapo: nope, none at all yet - wanted to wait to see about the space available
<nysosym> kwwii: and when u remove the transparency border?
<nysosym> something like this
<nysosym> http://img356.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ubuntuslickab6.png
<kwwii> nysosym: yeah, I basically just have to work around that
<nysosym> kwwii: btw. do you work byside also on oxygen? I have heard that the next kde 4 release also have a completed interface (Oxygen, Plasma)?
<kwwii> nysosym: yepp
<nysosym> nice :)
<kwwii> thanks :)
<kwwii> gonna run to the store...bbl
<nysosym> yeah, have fun ;(
<nysosym> ;)
<nysosym> kde 4 will be my first longer session with kde :D
<kwwii> hehe, and I have been using gnome for the last month or so
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> ok, I am off
<nysosym> ok, bye bye cu later ;)
<kwwii> h4writer: hi
<h4writer> hi
<h4writer> I got already an update
<kwwii> h4writer: now I know where to get help from ;-)
<h4writer> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7576/
<lapo> kwwii: do you know if the OO.o jimmac's tango refresh will end up in feisty?
<h4writer> that's the ./stylesheets/toc2html.xsl
<kwwii> lapo: not sure but it should if possible
<kwwii> h4writer: that looks like fun work :-)
<h4writer> so it is plusminus updated, but it is not what I exactly wanted. But what I want isn't possible with only editing the .xsl files
<kwwii> gotcha
<h4writer> So I will try to do that to. But it will take some time.
<kwwii> I asked around and someone said that you should also talk to the doc team about this stuff
<kwwii> and dholbach will help with any packaging questions
<h4writer> that would be helpful
<kwwii> if you've a question, send it to me per email and I will forward it to him with an introduction :-)
<kwwii> or, if you find him in chat, ask away :-)
<h4writer> Is he able to edit the .c files, so I don't need to do that?
<kwwii> I am sure he could, but he is really busy
<h4writer> okey
<kwwii> we're all really busy working on feisty
<h4writer> yeah, hopefully, the more you do the better it will be;-)
<h4writer> that's why I want to help
<h4writer> I've heard feisty will not come with compiz by default enabled?
<h4writer> and I love internet roaming, except the fact you can't specify the ip yourself. To bad.
<kwwii> yeah, the 3d stuff is still too young to gowith it per defualt
<h4writer> yes I know
<h4writer> I've already tried it a couple of times, but I don't like it how compiz presents it
<h4writer> all that jumping stuff. But I think it will be helpful to create new and better layouts
<kwwii> once it works on most machines it will be, yes
<h4writer> indeed
<h4writer> I'm going to explore the source of yelp again, see you. If you want to say something. I'm still here, so writing my name will notify my;-)
<kwwii> cool, will do
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<troy_s> woop
<h4writer_> kwwii, I've send a mail;-)
<h4writer_> kwwii, just saw it was the wrong email address. Now I've send it to the right one;-)
<kwwii> h4writer_: erm, not sure exactly who to ask that about...let me check
<h4writer_> okey
<kwwii> h4writer_: well, danial is offline, not sure who to ask ... I guess that the doc team would be the right place to start
<h4writer_> okey
<troy_s> is this all for that minor change to the help system?
<troy_s> it can't possibly be this difficult.
<troy_s> h4writer_: ?
<h4writer_> it isn't that much that has to be changed
<h4writer_> but there are some things in C that need to change
<h4writer_> Like I want the search layout be the same of the toc layout
<h4writer_> but now there's almost no layout on search
<h4writer_> So someone need to script the left bar in .C, so I can use it in search
<h4writer_> that's mostly copy/paste work, because the source is there for toc
<h4writer_> but I don't have the knowledge about it
<troy_s> that will be an upstream issue
<troy_s> as i believe it comes directly from gnome themselves
<troy_s> again, your power player on that front who will be listened to might be andreasn
<h4writer_> And I want to have the location bar away. But it need to become again visible when going to man/info/...
<h4writer_> but I will ask andreasn when he comes online
<troy_s> he is a wealth of information
<troy_s> and he is very in touch with the gnome scene
<troy_s> so if there is anything that is hard coded that is breaking theming rules
<troy_s> he would probably be able to further the cause.
<h4writer_> okey
<h4writer_> that's what I have now: http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/6084/screenshot1rf5.png
<h4writer_> troy_s, I've seen somebody called mdke has already been busy with it. So I will address him;-)
<h4writer_> http://www.mdke.org/?p=81#comments
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-02-27
<BHSPitMonkey> ack
<BHSPitMonkey> I hope the "show desktop" icon is fixed in feisty
<BHSPitMonkey> RE: transparency
<Madpilot> Edgy's show desktop icon is smaller than Dapper's - just upgraded and noticed that.
<BHSPitMonkey> it's also not transparent.
<Madpilot> hadn't noticed that yet.
<BHSPitMonkey> it actually has that whole gray background drawn onto it.
<BHSPitMonkey> it's really irritating with transparent panels
<Madpilot> did notice the round orange file tags in Nautilus - am not impressed.
<BHSPitMonkey> yeah
<BHSPitMonkey> you think "oh, okay" until you realize that there's none for what you -want-
<Madpilot> it's more that they're all the same blasted shape - harder to tell them apart.
<Madpilot> this was pointed out on the artwork list ages ago, actually.
<Madpilot> while Edgy was still in beta, AFAIK, but it still released with those round useless icons.
<nysosym> hi there :)
<nysosym> Hi kwwii, do u have improved usplash? :)
<nus_iced> hi there!
<trurien> anyone know where to get good usplash screens?
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<troy_s> wow
<troy_s> it's like magic
<fschoep> what is?
<troy_s> your response to email
<kwwii> howdy guys
<fschoep> hi ken
<kwwii> hi frank, how's things?
<fschoep> well, pretty average and all
<fschoep> :)
<fschoep> how are you?
<kwwii> fschoep: busy like a bee ;-)
<darkmatter> *yawn*
<fschoep> great, sitting around idling is no fun either
<kwwii> that is true
<fschoep> so, you're now something like AiC for u and ku, right?
<kwwii> well, funny enough the title went away I guess
<fschoep> you're just it
<fschoep> but I mean, that's the idea
<kwwii> something like that, yeah
<kwwii> probably the best way to get me to use gnome :-)
<fschoep> :)
<kwwii> winning people over one job at a time
<troy_s> ugh
<fschoep> it's true though
<fschoep> "Former Mac OS X addict kwwii switches to Ubuntu."
<kwwii> I don
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> I don't judge my opensource software by it's toolkit ;-)
<fschoep> :)
<darkmatter> kwwii, thats what she said
<kwwii> ;-)
<troy_s> uh oh... its the bi curious avatar guy.
<darkmatter> troy_s, :P
<darkmatter> quit making fun of sephiroth!
<troy_s> it is like some strange gay pro wrestler.
<troy_s> "The Undead Wanna Be Bi Curious Guy"
<darkmatter> troy_s, say that to his face!
<troy_s> Wholly cow.  This is rather along the lines of "Wilma Flintstone is Hot!"
<darkmatter> haha
<kwwii> troy_s: so...in order to start the healing process, think you'd like to give a talk on artwork process with a few others? (irc chat really)
<kwwii> during the open week thingy
<troy_s> kwwii Can't, sorry.
<troy_s> kwwii I have another show starting tomorrow etc.
<troy_s> kwwii and our maid is coming in etc.
<kwwii> troy_s: gotcha, maybe next time
* fschoep hides
<fschoep> ;)
<troy_s> kwwii I think you are the guy to deal with that anyways.
<kwwii> troy_s: I think it would be done best with people from the community as well
<troy_s> No, too forced.
<troy_s> if there is going to be a community, it probably needs to be mustered by folks who believe in the plan.
<kwwii> otherwise it is me telling people how things are going to be, when a lot of it is still open to discussion
<troy_s> and can contribute.
<troy_s> Ultimately, I think the truth is probably the wisest.
<troy_s> It is, and will be until there is a civil uprising, the way things are.
<troy_s> kwwii -- 'still open to discussion' -- i think you would need to explain exactly what that is to the folks...
<kwwii> troy_s: there is still a way for community involvement, but the extent needs to be well defined so that we do not make the same mistakes as last time
<kwwii> right now, there is no involvement at all, but that fact can change
<troy_s> well that's just it... i think that is predicated on the notion that the community will _want_ to flesh out sabdfl's ideas.
<kwwii> the situation is like it is now because both sides reacted
* darkmatter returns to branching Glory
<troy_s> as far as i can tell from a brief precursory exploration of the forums (granted not the best evaluation ground)
<troy_s> it doesn't seem to be the case.
<troy_s> there were no 'both' sides...
<troy_s> remember -- prior to edgy there was nothingness.
<troy_s> a vaccuum
<troy_s> sabdfl's expectations were simply to get a product out there, and really that was too short term.
<kwwii> yes, and the mistake with edgy was to let everyone think that they could decide whatever they wanted
<kwwii> there has to be some form of acceptance
<kwwii> even in the topic, "redhat gets it right" while the situation there is nothing like that in ubuntu edgy
<troy_s> actually
<troy_s> i could care less about who does what
<troy_s> if the product is a solid cohesive presentation, i'll be pretty happy with it.
<troy_s> if it communicates
<troy_s> etc., all is well.
<troy_s> that said, i _do_ firmly believe that there is strength in numbers and a gathering of heads.
<troy_s> i have seen it work on so many high level projects that it is simply part of my belief structure.
<troy_s> and the projects i have seen it work for are worth a helluva lot more than the entire capital involved with ubuntu.
<kwwii> definitely...if we wanted to have more involvement people would be making themes now which could be presented in the first rounds for feisty+1
<kwwii> then make the decision making process really clear
<kwwii> but anyway...I won't go on and on :-)
<troy_s> well i personally think that is the only real 'community' element
<troy_s> make it easier to get their work into the packages...
<troy_s> that said, sabdfl is a stubborn bugger and from what i can see, things aren't going to change
<troy_s> i sincerely doubt that he would be able to hire _anyone_ that he didn't know more than.
<troy_s> and that attitude will severely cripple the body of work in the long term
<troy_s> which is why 'gets it right' is relevant
<troy_s> even if you dismiss the work on aesthetic grounds etc... the overarching pattern is solid.
<troy_s> further still, it stands a very real chance of 'attracting' people because of the design.  not creating an overwhelming sense of 'meh'.
<troy_s> one would hope that a pattern will generate a visceral response -- love it or hate it.  the fence is the worst place to sit.
<troy_s> Anywho... I would suggest you exert your judgement kwwii and rally the community if that is required.  If it isn't, just plod along and meet sabdfl's expectations.  I got to jet.  Send me an email if you get some thoughts on the issues at hand.
<troy_s> Chat soon my friends.
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-02-28
<darkmatter> troy_s, check this out http://clutter-project.org/
<darkmatter> could be a dream come true with the proper love
<troy_s> darkmatter: I wonder if it the GL does software emulation when accell not present
<darkmatter> hmm
<darkmatter> good question
<troy_s> I just don't think anything will hold until an abstraction layer is provided.
<darkmatter> OpenGL ES & EGL support. This was an original goal for Clutter and this is one of the reasons the GL usage has been keep pretty simple. GL ES Support has already been roughly prototyped in the backends branch and youll notice internal math in Clutter is fixed point based (GL ES type platforms typically lack an FPU) ready for this. This work will also bring stage abstraction meaning we can run over other GL implementat
<darkmatter> ions other than GLX and a GL/GL ES abstraction layer.
<darkmatter> sorry bout the paste if its a bit long
<darkmatter> but looks like they're working on it
<troy_s> well that's great news
<darkmatter> I'm thinking of the potential for mindshare application... collaboration suites, etc
<darkmatter> could be really nice
<darkmatter> or adding some 'wow' factor to the gnome games ;)
<troy_s> darkmatter: It would be REALLY nice if everyone would work on ONE bloody interface :)
<troy_s> GNOME/KDE/this/that/otehr isn't really helping out the consistency factor -- either make the interfaces a HIGHER level abstraction or use the same bloody libs
<darkmatter> true
<darkmatter> I'm thinking something like clutter would make a great extension... build it into any app that it would be of use for... pass some nice arg to see if the system is accelled..
<stochastic> hi, I'm in the process of editing an icon set for gnome and I was wondering if anyone knew where the general text icon is
<stochastic> to be more specific, the one I'm looking for is the icon that is given in Nautilus when you're looking at a text file
<stochastic> the default icon usually has a small preview of the first few lines of the text file, I'd like to keep that, but change the border of the icon
<stochastic> any ideas?
<troy_s> stochastic: ?
<troy_s> your best bet is to look through either tango/tangerine/gnome sets and find the icon
<stochastic> I was looking but couldn't find anything
<troy_s> once you have matched the naming syntax, it is pretty simple to do your adjustments.
<troy_s> what icon is it?
<troy_s> are you talking about the m
<troy_s> mime types?
<troy_s> as in the default icon for data types?
<stochastic> I think it would be a mime type
<stochastic> to recreate the icon I'm talking about, open a gedit and save a simple text file such as "Hello World!"
<troy_s> methinks that is passed off to the thumbnailing tool
<troy_s> yeah and you get 'Hello world' in the icon thumbnail correct?
<stochastic> yeah
<troy_s> plain text inside of a little icon
<troy_s> yeah that's handled by the thumbnailers.
<stochastic> where can I find info on themes for those?
<stochastic> there has to be a way to change the basic background of that thumbnail right?
<troy_s> well they aren't 'themes' per se
<stochastic> ok, well forget that I used the word theme
<troy_s> methinks that is based on the thumbnailing application
<troy_s> as in it draws the thing itself
<troy_s> at least most thumbnailers are responsible for that sort of thing
<stochastic> hmm but there's a little dotted border around it that matches the icons in the human mime-type icon set
<troy_s> ?
<stochastic> I'll do some research on thumbnails
<troy_s> yeah... i honestly don't know exactly what icon it will pull to set into
<troy_s> it LOOKS like
<troy_s> it is pulling from /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/mimetypes/text-x-preview.svg
<troy_s> you might want to start there.
<troy_s> and try dicking with that.
<stochastic> thanks
<stochastic> I'll see what I can do
<troy_s> stochastic: Pretty sure that if THAT isn't the icon
<troy_s> it is one of the smaller sized versions of it
<troy_s> it certainly looks like it to me.
<stochastic> hmm I notice that there's a text-x-preview.icon in that same folder
<stochastic> how would that relate?
<stochastic> does anyone have any hints on how to go about converting/tracing a png image into an svg?
<yharrow> stochastic use inkscape
<stochastic> yharrow, I attempted to open a png in inkscape and save it as an svg but it didn't seem to save properly
<yharrow> Path >>Trace bitmap Shift+Alt+B
<yharrow> open image, select image, trace bitmap
<yharrow> choose color from the bottom menu if you want color
<yharrow> the higher the number of scans, the more precise (and complicated) the image
<lapo> good morning
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<nysosym> hi there
<stochastic> Hey room, earlier I was talking to troy_s about the icon in Nautilus that has a text preview of text files on it
<stochastic> he pointed me in the direction of /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/mimetypes/text-x-preview.svg and text-x-preview.icon
<stochastic> I've attempted to modify these files but their changes have not taken affect do I need to reload the window manager or are these the wrong files
<stochastic> when I run 'locate text-x-preview' it looks like gnome is the only theme on the system with that file but the look of my current icon is much more similar to the text-files that the Human theme has as a mimetype
<stochastic> any ideas if there's any different similar icons?
<andreasn> stochastic: it might be because you need to run icon-naming-utils on these files as nautilus does not look up the names from the fd.o icon-naming-specification
<stochastic> ?
<stochastic> that's a little over my head
<stochastic> can you explain that?
<andreasn> sure
<andreasn> oh, crap, there is people coming over.
<andreasn> can I get back to you?
<stochastic> sure
<andreasn> if you're in a hurry, someone in #tango can probably help you
<stochastic> wait, I found what I was looking for, it's hiding in filesystems/gnome-fs-regular.png
<nysosym> hi kwwii :)
<kwwii> hi nysosym
<nysosym> how are u? :)
<kwwii> nysosym: good, but busy as usual :-)
<kwwii> you?
<nysosym> hehe, what are u doing?
<kwwii> working on a kubuntu usplash atm
<nysosym> good as usual ;)
<nysosym> do u make the artwork for all ubuntu forks? O.o
<kwwii> nysosym: well, kubuntu, ubuntu and edubuntu for now
<nysosym> amazing! ;)
<kwwii> well, it is more of a one time thing, I guess
<kwwii> hopefully there will be others next time
<nysosym> yes, but who? ^
<nysosym> u make great artworks ;)
<kwwii> I try to do my best, but one person doing all this work over a longer period of time is simply crazy
<nysosym> yes agree, u said a new lead artist would be highered? They can define new people ;)
<nysosym> -highered +employed :D
<kwwii> yepp
<nysosym> kwwii, when u finished your work in kubuntu, can i see some screenshots please? I wan't install kubuntu, with the only reason to see your artwork ;)
<kwwii> hehe, sure
<kwwii> for now I am working on the usplash though- so no screens of that
<nysosym> thx :)
<kwwii> as my vmware refuses to install linux
<nysosym> yes i know the problems with vmware, i had them in edgy also... :-/
<nysosym> but, when vmware doesn't work, how do u test your work?
<kwwii> the hard way :-)
<kwwii> my laptop slowly becomes messed up :p
<kwwii> actually, I have two other test machines
<nysosym> hehe, which sort of laptop do u have? :)
<kwwii> I have a 17" powerbook and a new ibm x60s
<nysosym> respect, the best of the best ;)
<nysosym> hi klepas
<kwwii> well, I have been working from home for a few years now, so it is really the only money I put into my office ;-)
<nysosym> kwwii, good way, i only have a macbook and a selfmade desktop machine ^
<kwwii> hehe, I have a machine I put together too...it is now one leg of a table
<kwwii> and the last time I will do that :-)
<nysosym> :)
<nysosym> my next way will be, removing my actual desktop machine and buy a mac pro, but first with the release of leopard
<kwwii> I always wait a few years after apple brings out new hardware to buy it
<nysosym> because my actual desktop is a little bit to slow, for editing hd movies and raw files...
<nysosym> kwwii, sure, but i can't wait a few years, i need in the next time a new "power" machine
<nysosym> :D
<kwwii> nysosym: yeah, I also have a desktop mac as well - it is great at editing video
<klepas> hey nysosym
<nysosym> kwwii, yes and i love final cut pro. I love ubuntu, but linux doesn't have so professional aplicatons
<kwwii> nysosym: yeah, the oss linux video apps aren't quite there yet
<nysosym> ok i will go to work now
<nysosym> see u soon kwwii :)
<nysosym> have a good work ;)
<nysosym> cya
<yharrow> hey can anyone here give me an opinion about some logos Id like to use for my team?
<yharrow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Logos
<kwwii> logo1 looks the best to me
<kwwii> after that 2a
<yharrow> so if I wanted a logo without words 2a would be the best?
<yharrow> see the thing is that II was told that a logo should not have words
<yharrow> << kwwii
<yharrow> have you ever heard of such a rule?
<kwwii> yharrow: well, that is a pretty good rule, but this is a very specific logo
<kwwii> 2a seems much more creative
* kwwii has to cook dinner, bbl
<yharrow> but is creativity the main factor hear?
<yharrow> here
<yharrow> ok
<kwwii> well, branding-wise it is also simply better not to change the ubuntu logo ;-)
<yharrow> what do you mean when you say not to change the logo?
<yharrow> you mean that the team logo should have the ubuntu logo in it?
<Hohlraum> omfg that face browser in FC7 is cool.  anyone know if they modified gdm to do any animation effects?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-01
<nysosym> hi there :)
<poningru_> can someone get me some screencaps of the newest artwork stuff?
<poningru_> elkbuntu: do you know what all the changes for the artwork stuff was?
<elkbuntu> poningru_, no
<elkbuntu> poningru_, kwwii should though, since he's the artwork boss man
<poningru_> kwwii: ping ^^^
<kwwii> poningru_: ping
<poningru_> kwwii: err pong?
<poningru_> kwwii: sorry but I wanted to know what artwork stuff got in before artwork freeze
<poningru_> need for herd 5 release notes
<poningru_> if you can get me screenshots that would be a lot more awesome
<poningru_> but will take summary as well
<kwwii> poningru_: the only thing that is in until now is: the usplash, gdm, sessions splash
<kwwii> but the session splash is not very good atm
<kwwii> and I am still working on artwork, so things will change
<kwwii> oh, and of course the desktop wallpaper as wlel
<kwwii> well
<poningru_> yeah I covered the usplash, and wallpaper last time in herd 4 iirc
<poningru_> but they removed my screencaps cause it was kinda big
<poningru_> kwwii: do you know whatsup about the sound?
<poningru_> cause I saw that got 'updated' as well
<kwwii> poningru_: nope
<poningru_> do you know who might now?
<kwwii> poningru_: not really
<elkbuntu> poningru_, cbx33 does sound
<poningru_> elkbuntu: nm there wasnt really a sound change
<yharrow> hey kwwii
<yharrow> hows it going
<kwwii_> yharrow: good :-)
<kwwii_> so what does everyone think of this for the kubuntu usplash:
<kwwii_> http://sinecera.de/kusplash_tester2.png
<yharrow> gonna go check one sec
<yharrow> is the second bar supposed to be a mirror image?
<yharrow> I like the colors and over all softness of the design the though
<yharrow> saturated colors, soft edges
<nysosym> hi there :)
<darkmatter> hello nysosym
<nysosym> hi darkmatter
<nysosym> how are u?
<darkmatter> I'm ok.. couldn't sleep... so am working on a branch of my theme 'experiment'
<darkmatter> this ones using the tango guidelines
<nysosym> any prwview?
<darkmatter> not yet... just starting on the pixmaps
<darkmatter> but drawing on tango as much as possible for the look of the widgets
<darkmatter> right now its just a folder with a few goodies in it
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-03
<nysosym> hi there :)
<nysosym> wow
<nysosym> http://www.isity.net/blog/ << first post, fedora 7 will have a face browser more like these
<nysosym> http://macslow.thepimp.net/shots/face-browser-mockup-2.png
<nysosym> :D
<nysosym> re
<msikma> nysosym: re.sub(r'\*\*(.+?)\*\*', r'<B>\1</B>', r'Hello, **re** substitution **function**.')?
<nysosym> h?
<nysosym> msikma, what do u mean?
<msikma> Well, you said re
<msikma> Open a terminal, start Python, then type "import re", and then copypaste that line (minus the ? at the end)
<nysosym> ahh okay ^
<troy_s> how goes it guys and gals?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-04
<nysosym> hi my friends :)
<nysosym> hi there :)
<vdepizzol> there is any plan for package gaim with decent icons in feisty?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-02-25
<thorwil> nand: hi! how's things?
<nand> thorwil: hi! Well, we're finalizing the website... always one more thing to do :)
<nand> Next and last update should be tomorrow
<nand> and we kick it wednesday or around
<thorwil> cool :)
<nand> thorwil: have you designed some rocking release banner? :)
<thorwil> nand: well, henrik likes them ;)
<nand> Can I take a look? just curious...
<nand> or wait, let me wait for the release!
<thorwil> nand: sure. mail in a bit. busy editing a bloody wiki
<thorwil> nand: heh, ok
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-02-27
<kwwii> _MMA_: dude, around?
<_MMA_> yep
<kwwii> I am going to tweak your human-murrine stuff and put it in today (along with a clear looks theme) for testing
<kwwii> did you ever build a package of the murrine stuff?
<_MMA_> Ok. Didnt I do that a while ago? :P Can you send me what you do?
<_MMA_> What murrine stuff?
<kwwii> the stuff you did quite a while ago
<kwwii> with the orange panel (that being the only part I removed)
<_MMA_> Ahh....
<_MMA_> The only theme I packages was the Ubuntu Studio one.
<_MMA_> Everything else was just tinkering.
<kwwii> cool, I am adding it to murrine engine now
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/palettes.svg
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> njpatel: http://sinecera.de/palettes.svg
<_MMA_> kwwii: Adding what to the engine?
<_MMA_> kwwii: You're not saying you're adding a theme to gtk2-engines-murrine are you?
<kwwii> the gtkrc
<kwwii> yes, we are
<_MMA_> kwwii: No dont. Create a theme pack for it.
<_MMA_> Themes shouldnt go in with engines.
<kwwii> after talking to seb he told me to put it in with the engine
<_MMA_> kwwii: Putting it there screws with Xubuntu and Ubuntu Studio.
<_MMA_> Want me to jump in -desktop?
<kwwii> yes, if you want to stop that from happening please do
<ArthurArchnix> Hello again... where would I find the icon for the symlink? You know, the arrow that shows up on all symlinks...
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-02-28
<kwwii> hehe, nobody has flipped out yet
 * _MMA_ makes an assumption as to what kwwii is talking about and boots his Hardy box.
<_MMA_> hahahaha. Did kwwii break things? :P
<_MMA_> hehe. Yup. Forgot the Murrine depend. :)
<somerville32> :)
<nand> thorwil: hey! nice banners :)
<nand> (as usual, shall I say?)
<thorwil> nand: hi, thanks! where are they in use?
<thorwil> i just checked the fridge which doesn't use them
<nand> in planet.ubuntu.com
<nand> thorwil: It should have
<nand> but it seems like the editor missed it :/
<thorwil> nand: funny thing is, first sign of the launch i got is that complaint on the artwork list
<nand> complaint?
<nand> ah ok I see ;)
<thorwil> well, it can be called constructive, at least :)
<nand> hehe
<thorwil> wow, 5 announcements on the planet
<andreasn> great work on the logo thorwil
<thorwil> andreasn: thank you!
<nand> Likewise, I'll say again, thanks a lot for that nice artwork!
<nand> Now we just have to fill ideas :)
<nand> There is a section "Look and feel" when you post an idea...
 * kwwii is off for the day, going back from london to germany tomorrow
 * thorwil -> dinner
<thorwil> nand: welcome back. wasn't fast enough to say: you'Re welcome once again ;)  now, are all these ideas fresh or how many where there before going public?
<nand> 2 were there :)
<nand> I'm truly amazed at the rate new ideas are coming!
<thorwil> wow. ...storm indeed
<nand> Currently, we are getting 50 new users account every 20 minutes
<nand> so at the moment, I'd call it a success :)
<nand> Now, I have a full evening of fix to do, as we discover little bugs here and there
<nand> the most interesting one being IE users unable to access the website (404 error) :)
<thorwil> oh!
<thorwil> the problem must be on their end ;)
<nand> yeah, we discovered that IE does not handle correctly the HTTP 302 code.... truly amazing
<nand> anyone want to fill a bug report for that?
<_MMA_> hahaha Against what? IE
<thorwil> one doesn't file bugs for MS, one lets the EU fine them! ;)
<_MMA_> Surely you dont mean a bug against the site. :)
<nand> :D
<_MMA_> As long as it's standards compliant, F' IE.
<thorwil> but but, IE users have the most insight into what ubuntu needs!!
<_MMA_> Yeah. Cup holders.
<thorwil> nand: uhm, how to handle dupes?
<thorwil> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/44/ and http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/67/
<nand> well, once you have registered, you have a link "report duplicate"
<thorwil> ah, i should actually look around ;)
<nand> you report the dup, and then we'll reject/accept them
 * thorwil reports
<nand> ;)
<thorwil> nand: great job on the image links, for what i can see so far
<nand> I know sometimes it have some glitches, I will probably have to review that...
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-02-29
<troy_s> kwwii: Have you replaced the "vaguely bloody" heron image yet with a / the viable replacement?
<DPic> why is the default background in hardy in png when the svg isn't even as big?
<Anchakor> I don't know if this is a good place to report this, but I have a problem with ubuntu website
<Anchakor> I use theme with inverted colours (back bg, white text) and the website displays wrongly
<Anchakor> http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ubuntuhomepageubunturu5.png
<Anchakor> I don't use Ubuntu though so I just thought that someone should know...
<Anchakor> oh and I juse latest firefox2
<Anchakor> s/juse/use
<thorwil> hi nand! hope the slashdotting wasn't too bad :)  when i submitted the story, the site was running fine and i figured somone would report it anyway
<nand> hoho you missed something! The website was literaly smashed, as basically at the same time, it got first page on wired and digg !
<nand> fortunately, our beloved canonical sysadmins moved us to a stronger server
<nand> we are still steaming full ahead with 50 new users per 10 minutes, and so far, the input is of great quality!
<nand> Now, I have a TODO list of around 30-40 items to care of ...
<thorwil> it's quite amazing :)
<nand> thorwil: Would you give me an hand with some visual reorganization? Basically we will had much more menu items, options,... to integrate into the current page design. Well, if you're interested :)
<thorwil> nand: i should have an hours or so :)
<nand> Ok, then not today. First, I have to figure out what is asked and what we will modify
<nand> then try to make some mockups
<thorwil> tomorrow i will be at the linux audio conference in cologne
<nand> ok no probs :)
<thorwil> nand: but do you already know how many more items and options it might be?
<nand> nop! I currently gathering the - shall I say incredible - number of good and even excellent idea for Brainstorm submitted in Brainstorm itself
<_MMA_> thorwil: I sent you a email reply with some details about a 3D logo right?
<nand> But it will be probably a lot.
<thorwil> _MMA_: yes. and there's something in a 75% state of completion. not quite what you expected, i guess, though :)
<_MMA_> thorwil: I'm looking forward to whatever. This is part of an idea for Hardy+1. Thanx for any work you do.
<_MMA_> So even if its not quite what's in my head, it could spark other ideas.
<thorwil> sure
<nand> thorwil: will you be at FOSScamp?
<thorwil> nand: nope
<nand> ah, too bad, I would have offered you one of the Brainstorm bulb tee shirt we will make!
<thorwil> aww :}
<thorwil> nand: remind me that i give you a large scale version of the icon before you make t-shirts
<nand> you can make large versions with the SVGs, no?
<nand> ah they are not optimized for large scale ok
<nand> if you have time, thanks ;)
<thorwil> nand: you have to take care of line widths
<nand> ah ok
<thorwil> nand: shouldn't take me long, but it would be best to have a target size
<thorwil> width x height in mm and resolution
<nand> Ok, I will tell you. Probably a standart A4 size, that what shops take IIRC
<thorwil> nand: cool
<thorwil> nand: how are updates of image links supposed to work?
<nand> currently, once a image link is generated, it is cached for one day
<thorwil> i see 31 on http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/163/, but still 27 on http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/idea-promotion/
<nand> so you will not see the update of vote before next day!
<thorwil> ah, ok
<nand> *number*
<nand> It is planned to be changed to an one hour cache
<thorwil> i guess the browser cache could become a problem
<nand> it should not, the HTTP response will return the updated creation date and thus the browser should fetch the new one
<thorwil> ah, ok. i learned the hard way that using wordpress, if i replace one of my images with one of the same name, i will still see the old one
<thorwil> good night!
<cody-somerville> troy_s, Hey :)
<cody-somerville> troy_s, Want to evaluate?: http://cody.zapto.org/xubuntu-hardy/Screenshot-2.png
<nothlit> cody-somerville: ! wallpaper/theme clash!
<cody-somerville> hehe
<cody-somerville> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2008-February/005170.html
<nothlit> kit-kapudle?
 * kwwii returns from his trip to london after a *very* delayed flight
<kwwii> troy_s: nope, I haven't got to that yet...I was busy with meetings in london this week
<kwwii> troy_s: luckily while there I found out that sabdfl likes the wallpaper and basically made the same comments about what he would like ot see tweaked in it
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-01
<DanaG> or i type 'less some doc<tab>" for "some document with spaces", and I get "less doc"
<DanaG> oops, wrong channel.
<troy_s> kwwii: Did I just read that?
<troy_s> kwwii: _IF_ Fela is a go as per sabdfl, then the default GDM needs to be reconciled against it or vice versa.  I will say that trying to get the background in line with the GDM was a disaster in terms of tonal ranges, so perhaps going the other way (wallpaper tone to GDM) is prudent.
<troy_s> kwwii: Anyways, a smidge of heads up and we can probably get a polished version out the door.  Hit me when you are in.
<thorwil> nand: hi. what you mean, i forgot the image link?
<thorwil> nand: it's a straight copy from the code box and indeed the image links to the idea
<nand> thorwil: Oh. I am sure the image was not visible this morning!
<nand> hmm....
 * nand will have to investigate this possible bug
<thorwil> nand: are people using the small image links? if not, or only few, maybe they should be dropped
<nand> thorwil: It's probably too early to tell... but from the blogs I saw, it seems the bigger one is prefered
<nand> We should wait at least one week to have a good overview, I think
<thorwil> sure
<troy_s> http://abduzeedo.com/10-trends-will-define-logo-design-2008
<troy_s> kwwii: You back?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-23
<dashua> _MMA_: http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot-1.1235355588.png
 * _MMA_ clicks
<dashua> Better or worse? IYO
<_MMA_> dashua: I'm diggin' that man.
<dashua> Dark panel, lighter menus
<dashua> Sweet
<_MMA_> I like the color variance between things. Light menu. Grey window and dark panel. Nice.
<_MMA_> Really, I think I'd like to use this with my alternative-desktop project once I get a little more of that worked out.
<dashua> I have a mod with dark menus sort of like Dust, but Oo menubar us giving me issues
<dashua> Awesome :)
<dashua> Should I throw this one the wiki as an alternate version or make this the main and the lighter panel darker menus the mod?
<_MMA_> dashua: I'm using this with Dust atm. I'm emailing the artist for a hires one. http://www.flickr.com/photos/stitch/3079514354/sizes/o/
<dashua> Ah that's nice.
<_MMA_> dashua: I would make this the main one. I think it is an improvement. But that's just me. :P
<dashua> Yeah, same here.
<dashua> Just wanted some other opinions.  Thx.
<_MMA_> np
<dashua> That start here icon Sebastien just posted is hot.
<_MMA_> Reminds me of the one used in KDE4 but that's fine. We'll see where he goes with it.
<dashua> i like the black Ubuntu logo.
<dashua> I always liked that on other icon themes.
<dashua> Breathe is really picking up a buzz, that's great.
<_MMA_> You seen it mentioned anywhere else?
<_MMA_> dashua: ^^^ (forgot to use your name to highlight you) :P
<dashua> Yeah, all over the art pages (GNOME, Ubuntu, etc.)
<dashua> People are really digging it asking where to get it.
<dashua> Now with the PPA it'll be easier to direct them.
<_MMA_> dashua: Yeah. I still gotta solidify my workflow. Making updates to trunk, then go to the packaging branch that end up in the PPA. I might have to script something.
<dashua> Yeah, most build average users don't know how to build things, so this it'll be good. (packages)
<Cimi_> which features I will implement in murrine tomorrow? any ideas?
<_MMA_> Cimi_: Have Murrine was my car and find me a job.
<_MMA_> s/was/wash
<Cimi_> ok no features for you :)
<_MMA_> hehe
<_MMA_> dashua: Try this one as a background. http://www.flickr.com/photos/georgesgewels/2445842640
<dashua> Cimi_: How about shadows/gradients beneath progressbars and radio/checkbuttons like in MODERN Nodoka, that possible?
<dashua> _MMA_: That's nice.
<_MMA_> dashua: When can I test what you're currently working on?
<dashua> I'm working on it now.  I lost my glazestyle on the selected items on the lighter menu.  Trying to see what I messed up here.
<_MMA_> np. I'm just getting a little inspired for alt-desktop here. If you're ok with it, I'd like to use your new work.
<dashua> Yeah, np.  I'd be delighted.  Just trying to work a few tweaks. :)
<Cimi_> dashua, murrine already has shadows and gradients on those widgets
<dashua> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Nodoka%20Dust?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Widget_02012009.png
<dashua> Like that?  I may need to mess with some settings.
<Cimi_> in murrine they are much more subtle
<dashua> If you zoom in on it,  looks like it's tilted or something.
<dashua> Like a 3d effect.
<dashua> Ah alright.
<rsc___> :D
<_MMA_> throwil: Where did you get the ratio numbers you posted? Because, 2560x1600 and 1920x1200 are 16:10. (a small detail as long as people just use the X&Y sizes to create)
<thorwil> _MMA_: quoting myself:"8:5 is often given as 16:10 ..."
<_MMA_> Weird. It's obviously half but here (states) I've never seen it posted that way.
<_MMA_> I guess people are so used to 16:9, 16:10 gives a more obvious mental picture. 16:9, but a little bigger.
<thorwil> yep
<thorwil> but i dislike inconsistencies :)
<_MMA_> dashua: Around?
<thorwil> discussing mailing list options, great
<_MMA_> I know. I know.
 * _MMA_ shakes head.
<thorwil> nice lack of quotation markup in dilomo's mail
<thorwil> _MMA_: i can't imagine that it was directed to Sebastian. but it's a trainwreck of a message. he should leave that to our fail guys
<_MMA_> hahaha
<_MMA_> That's why I mentioned "I hope you just quoted something out of order."
 * thorwil sends mail to Anton, regarding quotations
<_MMA_> He's a gmail user and he's the only one I seen that happen to. I don't know what he's doin' different.
 * _MMA_ thinks he's gonna take a year or so away from Ubuntu and learn Blender.
<thorwil> 1 year for Blender? mwuhahahaha
<thorwil> plan for the "or so"
<_MMA_> I didn't say I'd be a guru or anything. :) Just as things are, I can't even get started.
<_MMA_> Hell, I'd go to school for it if there were local clasess.
<thorwil> _MMA_: i learned mayn apps by simply fooling around with them. the notable excpetions are solidworks and blender
<thorwil> for solidworks, i needed a little push to understand the basics
<thorwil> and for blender i had to go through an introductionary tutorial
<thorwil> and would need to read docs/tuts for anything new i havn't done before ...
<_MMA_> I'm also looking into Blender for video editing. I think it's actually the best thing we got atm. I made a .deb that launches Blender with a custom layout and menu entry.
<thorwil> well, you read troy's blog, right?
<_MMA_> (.deb that installs a setup that is)
<_MMA_> Not lately. I got the .blend file from him for the UI.
<thorwil> _MMA_: prepare ... take a deep breath ...
<_MMA_> ...
<thorwil> _MMA_: the reason for Anton's lack of > is ... Outlook
<_MMA_> Nooo.......
<_MMA_> hehe :)
<thorwil> windows because of autocad
<_MMA_> At *least* use Tbird. :P
<_MMA_> thorwil: Sure. Even I got XP around for a couple of apps. But unless Im usin' them Im in nix.
<_MMA_> Man. I can't think of 1 person I know that uses Outlook outside or the office. :)
<_MMA_> s/or/of
 * thorwil passes on the thunderbird suggestion
<_MMA_> thorwil: Thunderbird imports Outlook accounts won't it?
<thorwil> could be
<dashua> _MMA_: Sup mate?
<dashua> Just got home, finishing some final touches on Miu and I'm going to upload it.
<SiDi> hey dashua, you're the one working on Miu ? :)
<dashua> SiDi: Yes, I'm changing to a dark panel and some other tweaks.
<SiDi> Well, i'd like to know then
<SiDi> Could you look into an issue i'm having with Miu ? it really renders badly with Thunar
<dashua> Screenshot?
<SiDi> sec
<SiDi> Also, i made an xfwm for it
<SiDi> i posted the link on the mailing list and in gnome-look.org
<_MMA_> dashua: Yo. When you get a min, I'd like to tinker with what you're working on. (just test here to get an idea of some things)
<SiDi> Damn i don't have Miu's gtk in my Intrepid distro
<dashua> _MMA_: Sure.  Want me to send you what I have?
<dashua> It's pretty much complete I'm just playing with BG[SELECTED] on the dark panel
<dashua> Looks pretty good so far.
<dashua> For the menubar.
<_MMA_> dashua: coryisatm@ubuntu.com
<dashua> _MMA_: One sec :)
<_MMA_> Take your time.
<_MMA_> dashua: I'm gonna rename it locally so I can install it in parallel.
<dashua> Sure
<dashua> Np
<SiDi> Uploadin
<SiDi> When i was in jaunty it was even more blatent, but still : http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=miuthunar.png i'm using murrine SVN
<SiDi> i might make a screen of nautilus/thunar next to each other next time i'll boot on jaunty so that you can see
<SiDi> the icons in thunar are just almost twice as big as in nautilus
<dashua> SiDi: That is fixed in the update.
<dashua> Icon sizes.
<SiDi> ah great then :)
<dashua> _MMA_: Sent.
<SiDi> also, would you mind including the xfwm ? that'd be cool for xfce users
<dashua> SiDi: Sure, I'm not an XFCE user but I should be able to figure it out. :)
<SiDi> thanks ;)
<SiDi> http://www.xfce-look.org/content/show.php?content=99823 i packaged it here
<dashua> Ok, will look into tonight.
<SiDi> if there are any changes in the metacity i'll just change the xfwm too. Anyways i have to redo it with a bigger height
<_MMA_> dashua: Oh hell. What engine does this use?
<dashua> Murrine
<_MMA_> Hmm...
<dashua> Anything over 130 something should work.
 * SiDi wants an @ubuntu.com address too .. :)
<_MMA_> dashua: Says it wants a theme called "CLASSIC".
<dashua> Hrm, that's a mod of the metacity
<dashua> Maybe the index is borked.
<_MMA_> I'm running studio so it's a little more bare-bones than Ubuntu. I thought I might be missing a depend.
<dashua> What murrine version?
<dashua> You definitely need a newer murrine package.
<SiDi> If i remember well, on jaunty, with the murrine svn PPA enabled, i was having trouble with it too
<SiDi> i just removed the index.theme and then it worked
<_MMA_> dashua: That's it. I'm running the repo version of Murrine. Got a link to a new .deb?
<dashua> I'll have to make a new index then
<dashua> Sure
<SiDi> is the repo one actually the 139 ?
<_MMA_> It's murrine .60 here.
<dashua> https://launchpad.net/~suraia/+archive
<dashua> I'm on revision 143
<dashua> Dotted focus is gone :)
<dashua> But the gtkrc should still work with that PPA
 * _MMA_ sits back and watches him screw the Studio theme up.
<dashua> SiDi: Ha, yeah it will bork it, maybe.
<dashua> Or you'll get a deprecation warning
<SiDi> Well i was having a weird message with the index.theme, involving this line
<SiDi> and when i removed it, the theme was available in the "customise" theme menu, but not in the appearence window
<SiDi> though it was working
<dashua> I guess I should those XFCE panel tweaks as well for the dark panel.
<dashua> add*
<_MMA_> dashua: What is the classic theme? Part of GNOME themes or is this your index.theme issue?
<dashua> It's the metacity theme name.  I need to rename it.
<SiDi> you can inherit metacity themes ? Oo
<_MMA_> dashua: I think it needs a bit to tie in the brown. I'd play with making the menu highlights brown as well as the space between the buttons and the far left on the metacity.
 * _MMA_ also doesn't know about the orange text on tabs.
<dashua> Yeah.
<dashua> I'm torn with the orange.  I like it sometimes and other times I play with black.
<SiDi> Ah, the orange text on tabs isnt normal ?
<dashua> Normal for now until we modify it.
<SiDi> Okey
<_MMA_> Now the orange on the menu I don't feel real strong about it's just a idea but I think if you could make just that little space in the metacity match the panel that might be cool.
<_MMA_> dashua: I like how the area with the buttons is squared off or looks to lean out from the titlebar.
<dashua> Okay.
<dashua> Thx.
<dashua> The theme is pretty much complete absent the color scheme tweaks and text.
<dashua> It's pretty responsive too, not that matter too much.
<_MMA_> dashua: There's also an issue on roll up. There's a 2px or so line at the bottom that doesnt go to the very ends.
<dashua> Ah alright.
<_MMA_> dashua: Your bottom corners, the round parts, also need to have the same grey line go from the side to the bottom. Right now, the frame looks broken.
<dashua> I'm actually using Impression's metacity now.  I think that has some potential if the button issues are worked out.
<dashua> The bottom right and left corners seemed a bit off to me.
<_MMA_> Yeah. Looks like the corners are nipped off.
<_MMA_> dashua: And don't get me wrong. I think this has alot of potential. God. If people only knew how much tinkering went into the Studio theme. Back and forth. Back and forth.
<dashua> Yeah. I know.  People will never understand.
<dashua> It's is a lot work.  You change one thing, it messes up something else.
<_MMA_> Yes sir.
<dashua> Just let me know, and I'll tweak it up.
<dashua> It seems like people may actually like and use this theme if I get it right.
<_MMA_> Well the note above are all Ill do for now. :) Don't wanna overwhelm ya. :)
<dashua> Alright
<SiDi> _MMA_: do you actually work at Ubuntu ? Just curious
<dashua> I just want to make sure I keep it warm and it says "Ubuntu" to some extent.
<SiDi> gd night
<_MMA_> SiDi: I started Ubuntu studio and am currently it's lead artist. I handed over the main reigns at the start of Jaunty. I know Ken pretty well. Now a bunch of Ubuntu folks. But to answer directly, I have only contributed little pieces to Ubuntu proper.
<_MMA_> Oh well.
 * dashua heard you :)
<_MMA_> :P
<_MMA_> dashua: You know how you hit a menu option and it turns Orange with the menu below?
<dashua> On the Menu Bar (Upper left)
<dashua> ?
<_MMA_> The menu.
<dashua> That is what I'm toying with.
<_MMA_> File Edit Blah blah blah
<dashua> I tried black, but this gives now action
<dashua> Ah
<dashua> Yeah
<_MMA_> I think the bottom of the orange button things looks odd with rounded bottom corners. It's like a button on top of a menu. Doesnt flow well.
<dashua> Ok
 * _MMA_ fires up gedit.
<dashua> Let me mess with that and the color.
<dashua> The button should be an easy fix with roundness
<dashua> menu_item fixes the roundness issue
<dashua> Maybe 1 or 2?
<dashua> was 3
<_MMA_> Maybe: menubaritemstyle    = 1
<dashua> style "menu_item" {
<dashua> Yeah, that does it.
<dashua> 1 and 2 look decent.
<_MMA_> dashua: No. That should effect the hightlight over a menu option.
<dashua> 3 was too round.
<_MMA_> We're talking about 2 different things.
<dashua> Ah
<_MMA_> Change line 96, then click on the menu in a app.
<dashua> I thought you were talking about the orange highlight on the menubar.
<_MMA_> dashua: But I think changing those 2 settings actually look better.
<dashua> Yeah, it does
<dashua> "menu_item" roundness = 1 looks good with menubaritemstyle = 1
<dashua> _MMA_: http://picpaste.com/Screenshot-2.png
 * _MMA_ clicks
<_MMA_> dashua: Yeah. Thats what I got here. I edited the file.
<dashua> Kk
<_MMA_> dashua: Hmm... I dont have the same amount of padding as you in the metacity. Much thinner. I think it's because of some Studio settings.
<dashua> I will work on the metacity a bit more.  That was something new for me.
<_MMA_> np.
 * _MMA_ takes a break for a bit. (I got a headache)
<dashua> Yeah, np
<mib_5ueehj> hi, is there a list of current proposals, and maybe votes for current proposals of jaunty artwork?
<mib_5ueehj> how is it decided what the art will be?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-24
<kwwii> lol, he lasted 9 minutes before he gave up
<kwwii> nice
<dashua> _MMA_: Got the Menu Bar to my liking, darker, not as bright and obtrusive.
<dashua> http://picpaste.com/Screenshot_9.png
<dashua> Just testing different glazestyles on it.
<_MMA_> dashua: Ahh... Cool. Seems better.
<dashua> Yeah, the other was a bit too bright.
<dashua> This fixes the highlight over the GNOME clock.  Was silver before.
<Cimi> jawn
<_MMA_> I'm gonna be out of channel from now through tomorrow. Gonna spend more time with Gabe (my son) and take care of some things around the house. I'll be on Freenode or you can email if it's important. (I'll attend to anything on the list)
<savvas> is it just me or do drop-down boxes appear pitch black in dust?
<savvas> (the text too)
<savvas> I think I need dustfox enabled :\
<dashua> Wow! Nice new gdm.
 * tretle groans at the new gdm in jaunty :(
<tretle> panel at the bottom looks like vista or windows 7 and the 3d ubuntu logo looks dated, even worse is the fact its placed in the bottom right corner with everything else black giving it the feeling that its going to keel over :(
<tretle> no symmetry to it :(
<thorwil> got a screenshot?
<savvas> thorwil: I think this is dust-theme related, I got a black background with black text colour in drop down list boxes: http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs536&d=09092&f=black-drop-down-box-list618.png
<thorwil> savvas: i meant a screenshot of the new gdm ;)
<thorwil> nothing i can do or say regarding issues with dust
<savvas> darn
<tretle> thorwil - http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=104500&d=1235482870
<thorwil> tretle: thanks
<tretle> soz for the late reply, had to at lots of pancakes
<tretle> :)
<tretle> so far my favorite artwork for the gdm and wallpaper was for the hardy release
<thorwil> tretle: i have the suspicion mr. shuttleworth is a sucker for lighting from below. orangish, preferable
<thorwil> it's in the human folder, was in the briefing for the entirely new theme for hardy that didn't happen
<thorwil> and here we have it again
<tretle> the start page for google was also allot nicer than intrepid
<tretle> but the gdm panel at the bottom looks like the windows 7 one
<tretle> I'm hoping the new gdm lands in time and the greeter rewrite gets done so macslows clutter gdm can replace this
<thorwil> can't let them have a monopol on glassy transparency ;)
<thorwil> tretle: won't happen for jaunty
<tretle> I know
<tretle> karmic though
<tretle> dont like that 3d ubuntu logo
<thorwil> wouldn't hold my breath for it
<thorwil> tretle: i withhold judgement until i see it on my own screen ... allthough it looks cheap on that shot
<tretle> omg........ I was wondering what the 3d logo reminded me of
<tretle> the gentoo logo
<tretle> just as cheap looking
<tretle> :D
 * tretle is going to be pissed if the new ubuntu icon theme is based off oxegen
 * thorwil had 3 glasses of wine and now works with alcohol-based markers ... oh oh
<tretle> lol
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-25
<SealV> awesome job on the new login screen
<davmor2> Hi guys I have an issue with the new ubuntu-gdm-theme do you guys handle it?
<davmor2> bug 334430
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334430 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "Jaunty: New Login theme option->select session is too dark to read" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334430
<_MMA_> davmor2: kwwii: Can.
<davmor2> _MMA_: TA :)
<thorwil> davmor2: he's the only one working at canonical here and might have had something to do with it
<thorwil> whereas the rest of us, as a fact, didn't
<kwwii> hrm?
<kwwii> davmor2: that is a known bug which we are workig on, let me find the number
<kwwii> I created a bug when I submitted the theme
<kwwii> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/331445
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 331445 in gdm "gdm does not respect all the given color variables in a gtkrc which is included with the gdm theme" [Undecided,Fix released]
<davmor2> kwwii: that would be why I couldn't find it under too dark to see :)
<kwwii> :)
<davmor2> kwwii: Do you want me to tag mine as a dupe ?
<kwwii> davmor2: yes please
<kwwii> davmor2: if you know how to build a package you could test the patch Cory made for that bug
<kwwii> it is still not working for me for some reason
<davmor2> kwwii: Meh I mostly test and report
<kwwii> davmor2: no worries, just thought I should ask
<davmor2> I know how to apply a patch though :) so I can do that :)
<kwwii> davmor2: yeah, but you have to build gdm...don't worry about it
<davmor2> ah okay I'll leave it then :)
<thorwil> ladi-di ladi-da
<swalko> where may i find some list with missing icons from breathe set?
<_MMA_> swalko: The Wiki has all the info you need. What's done. What's not. Everything.
<swalko> _MMA_ ok thanks i missed that
<_MMA_> Starting point: https://launchpad.net/breathe-icon-set
<_MMA_> Any and all documentation can be found by following links from there.
<_MMA_> swalko: Are you looking to get involved?
<swalko> i am interrested currently in involving
<_MMA_> swalko: Do you have a current body of work/portfolio?
<swalko> _MMA_: some things are http://picasaweb.google.com/home
<swalko> _MMA_: not all
<swalko> _MMA_: some arent finished or will not be finished
<_MMA_> swalko: Is that link correct?
<swalko> sry
<swalko> :-D
<swalko> http://picasaweb.google.com/milan.krivda
<_MMA_> swalko: Cool. Have you done work on Oxygen? I would look at my AUTHORS list but my dev box is occupied with something else.
<swalko> i am new on oxygen
<_MMA_> Ahh...
<swalko> i am waiting to commit my first icon for oxygen
<swalko> 1/2 approved
<_MMA_> I see. They are doing great work there. I'm hoping to have a little dialog going once I get some things strait here.
<_MMA_> swalko: At the moment, our barrier for entry might be a little lower as we're still building a team but we're always looking.
<_MMA_> Currently, we only have 1 artist. I manage all the technical stuff.
<swalko> _MMA_: i am doing wed design, one time a worked on amarok icons, currently i am working on oxygen icons
<swalko> _MMA_: but i must learn
<_MMA_> Cool.
<swalko> _MMA_: adapt oxygen style, etc
<swalko> _MMA_: http://picasaweb.google.com/milan.krivda/Oxygen#5303060742175502274 this will be commited
<thorwil> swalko: i was just about mentioning that one ;)
<_MMA_> Nice.
<_MMA_> One thing we're trying to do from Oxygen is be a little less, glossy.
<_MMA_> *different from Oxygen...
<swalko> _MMA_: less glossy?
<swalko> _MMA_: oxygen overall love glossy :)
<_MMA_> Yes. And it's 1 area we're trying to be different.
<thorwil> swalko: http://picasaweb.google.com/milan.krivda/Oxygen#5296310553627282786 suffers from the 3d effect of the pie-chart being too subtle. gets lots if zoomed down. i would consider going with a flat chart
<swalko> _MMA_: that icon will be never used
<swalko> _MMA_: it was only something like mockup
<swalko> _MMA_: overall 3d icons aren very good
<swalko> _MMA_: in smaller sizes their look unreadable
<_MMA_> swalko: So if something in real life has a gloss, we can draw it that way. Otherwise, things in Breathe are trying to be more subdued.
<_MMA_> swalko: thorwil made the comment about the icon. :)
<swalko> :)
<swalko> thorwil: that icon will be never used
<swalko> thorwil: overall 3d icons aren very good
<swalko> thorwil: in smaller sizes their look unreadable
<thorwil> swalko: heh, i read it all despite the wrong nicj being in front ;)
<swalko> thorwil: i meaned it
<thorwil> swalko: when i once made hd-icons with pie-charts, i decided to use a flat-from-top view for this reason
<swalko> thorwil: after conversation with pinheiro
<swalko> thorwil: we wanted to create completely different icon
<swalko> thorwil: but in paralel one oxygen member started work on that icon and have it done first before us
<swalko> thorwil: we wanted to do icon with croma style (first croma style in oxygen)
<thorwil> well, currently Breathe might have the advantage that something like that is unlikely to happen ;)
<swalko> thorwil: at 99% :-D
<swalko> thorwil: that was only small mistake
<thorwil> swalko: croma style?
<swalko> thorwil: chrome
<swalko> thorwil: in oxygen arent icons with chrome effect
<swalko> thorwil: currently
<thorwil> kwwii: i still have another rendition of the laola idea in the pipeline, but otherwise it would be nice to hear from you if anything of my collection has a chance of getting accepted if i refine it until 1st of march
<thorwil> swalko: chrome is tricky, because you have to assume an environment
<thorwil> anyway, gotta go now, good night! :)
<swalko> thorwil: bye
 * tretle wonders where he can find this wallpaper - http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UqUwVPikChs/SRlW4MAfhII/AAAAAAAAHkc/BY-g0VnApDw/s1600-h/91061-2.jpg
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-26
<ziroday> kwwii: ping
<kwwii> ziroday: pong
<ziroday> kwwii: hey, got your mail. Did you just send that?
<kwwii> ziroday: yes
<kwwii> about half an hour ago or so
<ziroday> kwwii: right, was just wondering if my mail server was playing tricks on me again :)
<ziroday> kwwii: yeah I would love to push that
<ziroday> kwwii: what were you thinking of? Any specific place you want to target (DA, flickr etc) or just a wide competition?
<kwwii> DA seems like the best place at the moment
<kwwii> I'd like to try something like this out and see how it works, then we could do more
<kwwii> flickr doesn't seem organized enough for me
<ziroday> kwwii: yeah, DA has a serious community behind it
<kwwii> also, I am discussing the idea with design schools
<kwwii> ziroday: exactly
<kwwii> ziroday: and I have a promise of something around 500â¬ for prize money, etc
<kwwii> naturally, this is for jaunty +1
<ziroday> kwwii: wow!
<ziroday> kwwii: of course, of course
<kwwii> ;)
<ziroday> kwwii: well I doubt DA will budge unless somebody with a bigger title comes along (read: you)
<_MMA_> kwwii: If you're gonna use DA for a competition don't do like the Inkscape guys and let it drag out forever. (their website contest)
<ziroday> kwwii: and as for precedent wise, I know inkscape had a couple of competitions there, that didn't turn out so well
<ziroday> _MMA_: jinx :P
<_MMA_> ;)
<_MMA_> They just let it go too long and people lost interest.
<ziroday> kwwii: I can give you the lady who I was talking to in DA before
<ziroday> kwwii: she has the authority, but is a hard ass
<kwwii> ziroday: that would be awesome
<kwwii> no worries, so is my boss :)
<ziroday> haha
<_MMA_> kwwii: I see we have a new guy lurking. :)
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, just going to send an email to the list about that
<kwwii> _MMA_: man, give me a chance!
<_MMA_> hahahah
<_MMA_> You'll get your chance. I'm going out for a bit.
<ziroday> kwwii: http://anna.deviantart.com/
<ziroday> kwwii: the only way I managed to get hold of her was sending notes via DA. The press and contact emails seem to be dead
<ziroday> kwwii: now I still have the (very) rough guidelines from before, I can dig those up for you if you like
<ziroday> kwwii: anyway I have to go now, mail or ping me if I can do anything (I love boring legwork)
<kwwii> ziroday: will do
<kwwii> sorry, had to grab lunch
<kwwii> ziroday: the guidelines would be great, if you have them
<SealV> I had to leave for classes yesterday, but good job on the login screen
<kwwii> SealV: thnx
<SealV> is there something you want us to be working on?
<SealV> because the mailing list is mostly quibbles about random things. and breathe
<SealV> whoops.. will be back in 2-3 hours
<kwwii> SealV: I'll be back online in about 9 hours (flying home soon)
<kwwii> SealV: at the moment, we could really use some good work on the wallpaper
<kwwii> SealV: did you see the pdf I sent to the list?
<kwwii> oops, too late
<andreasn> kwwii, any luck with the relocation of the notification icons from human to hicolor?
<andreasn> I bugged Macslow about it the other night, but he told me to bug you again :)
<kwwii> andreasn: yes, I am working on it (just not atm)
<andreasn> cool, great to hear
<kwwii> andreasn: I hope to get it done either tomorrow or on the weekend
<andreasn> oh, no hurry. I was mostly worried that it would be broken on the stable install.
<kwwii> andreasn: I did tell the notification guys that they basically need to install the icons in the package to icon/hicolor/scalable/status instead of just in icons
<kwwii> erm icons/hicolor...
<andreasn> I think dobey recommended /usr/share/whatever-the-name-of-the-notify-thing-is/icons/hicolor/scalable/status
<kwwii> andreasn: exactly :)
<andreasn> I really don't know what the difference is, but he wanted that for some reason
<kwwii> well, that is easier for me as all I have to do is tell the coders to do it :p
<andreasn> :)
<kwwii> andreasn: but when I do it, I want to rename everything first
<kwwii> btw, if anyone is interested in the naming of these icons, please let me know!
<kwwii> I don't *have* to do this all alone :p
<andreasn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines#How do I get these slick icons
<andreasn> sounds like pretty sane names to me, anything special you're thinking about?
<kwwii> well, removing the upper case and fixing stupid mistakes, mainly
<kwwii> *very-low doesn't make much sense
<dashua> _MMA_: DarkMiu  http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_1.1235657572.png
<andreasn> what use -very-low?
<andreasn> the naming spec have something called *-caution for battery levels
<dashua> Notice the blur on notify-osd.  Looks really good.
<kwwii> erm, I seem to have fixed that one already :p
<andreasn> where is the launchpad page?
<kwwii> andreasn: for the icons? the ubuntu icons are directly in the human theme (so it would be on that page as well)
<andreasn> ah, ok
<kwwii> andreasn: notify-osd is the package name
<andreasn> I'll see what I can do about the caps names
<kwwii> andreasn: you do realize that I have put gnome icons in the package itself (and those are the ones that will go in /usr/share/icons/notify-osd/icons/hicolor/)
<kwwii> andreasn: now worries, if you have better things to do let me take care of it on the weekend
<SiDi> hello people
<kwwii> hi SiDi
<andreasn> kwwii, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-icon-theme/+bug/334472
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 334472 in gnome-icon-theme "Inherit human-icon-theme so that gnome-icon-theme and all icon-themes which depend on it have access to the notification-* icons used by notify-osd." [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<dashua> SiDi: Hey, any luck with the updates?
<SiDi> What do you mean dashua ?
<SiDi> oh the Miu theme ?
<dashua> Yeah
<dashua> Still having issues?
<SiDi> No
<SiDi> it works great on thunar now, gz :p)
<SiDi> damn i think i need to eat and sleep, i'm in a bad state atm :(
<dashua> Ah good
<kwwii> andreasn: lol, nice...should I make the gnome theme inherit from human?
<andreasn> nooooooo!
<kwwii> mat_t: hey!
<mat_t> kwwii hi
<kwwii> hey everyone...mat_t is this wierd guy sitting across from me in the office
<kwwii> (he keeps staring!)
<thorwil> kwwii: any opinion on my wallpaper concepts so far?
<kwwii> actually, he is one of the members of our new design team
<mat_t> hi everyone
<thorwil> hi mat_t
<kwwii> thorwil: actually, I wanted to talk to you about that
<SiDi> hi mat_t
<mat_t> good to meet you guys
<kwwii> mat_t is the man when it comes to design ;)
<SiDi> btw, does anyone know yet what will be the colours used in Karmic for the new theme ?
<kwwii> SiDi: I heard pink
<mat_t> SiDi, we haven't yet started thinking about it :)
<mat_t> few ideas are hanging in the air, but nothing concrete atm
<thorwil> mat_t: are you on the ubuntu-art mailing list?
<SiDi> okies :)
<mat_t> thorwil, not atm, but I will be shortly :)
<kwwii> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<thorwil> mat_t: do you have an online portfolio?
<SiDi> reminds me i seriously should update mine. and the port 21 is blocked on my network, practical for FTP :(
<mat_t> thorwil, not a personal website, but I used to work for an agency called Rawnet - www.rawnet.com
<thorwil> ah, trendy :)
<mat_t> thx ;)
<thorwil> mat_t: you're the Senior Interactive Designer listed on their team, then
<mat_t> I was, I think they still haven't taken me off the website :)
<SiDi> means they miss you :p
<mat_t> hahaha, they do apparently!
<SiDi> What is the job of an Interactive Designer, by the way ?
<mat_t> they're good guys, I miss them, too
 * thorwil isn't pointing to the other less flattering explanation
 * mat_t gets all soggy
 * mat_t wonders what the other explanation may be
<thorwil> mat_t: they didn't notice he departure? i'm sorry ;)
<SiDi> hehe thorwil
<swalko> thorwil: hi
<thorwil> hi swalko
<swalko> thorwil: today i readed wiki
<swalko> thorwil: but i have much questions :)
<swalko> more
<thorwil> swalko: questions are there for being answered. go on :)
<mat_t> thorwil, you can try calling rawnet and asking for me, see what happens. Maybe they'll start looking for me in the toilet desperately
<mat_t> ;)
<swalko> thorwil: breathe will be complete icons set (one time)
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> swalko: yes
<swalko> thorwil: there will be some icons choosed from oxygen icon set and reused?
<swalko> thorwil: or parts od some oxygen icons
<swalko> thorwil: of some icons
<thorwil> swalko: i actually had something else in mind when you said "wiki". _MMA_ has the final say on anything breath. i will answer all i can, though
<thorwil> swalko: at first, Oxygen is used to fill the gaps in Breath
<swalko> thorwil: actualy is one big gap :)
<thorwil> swalko: and it is well possible that some oxygen icons, just modified, will be used
<swalko> thorwil: nothing bad
<swalko> thorwil: modified is right word for me
<swalko> thorwil: at example mimetypes icons
<kwwii> I don't think that the plan is to include oxygen icons in the final set
<kwwii> the idea was to make something similar to oxygen but unique to ubuntu
<swalko> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Discussion use that background for mimetypes and reuse some parts (app logos) of oxygen icons?
<kwwii> again, _MMA_ could tell you more
<swalko> kwwii: has breathe icons set ambitions to be a "new ubuntu icons set"
<thorwil> swalko: i don't think there has been a definite decision on how to go about the mimetype icons
<swalko> thorwil: that was only example
<kwwii> swalko: not necessarily, if it would be picked that would be nice but it is not being made with that intention
<swalko> thorwil: for me i breathe looking like something that miss me in ubuntu
<swalko> thorwil: and in gnome overall
<thorwil> swalko: breath is meant to become a suitable option as ubuntu's default, but as we have no say on that, we don't rely on it
<thorwil> or expect it
<swalko> thorwil: good
<thorwil> swalko: you mean you see something in breathe already that you miss elsewhere?
<swalko> thorwil: today i cannot say if is it elsewhere, bacause in set are only few icons
<SiDi> What i'd like to see in next releases is Dust + Kin + all those new themes designed at the ubuntu wiki instead of the old gnome themes installed by default in /usr/share/themes
<SiDi> that'd be great
<swalko> thorwil: from my look gnome overall use old styled icons
<swalko> thorwil: and need renew
<swalko> thorwil: or need "oxygen for gnome" (in meaning modern icon set)
<swalko> thorwil: not concrete style or concrete icons set
<kwwii> SiDi: indeed, I would also like to remove the cruft from the themes
<swalko> may i find somewhere on net real new ubuntu theme?
<andreasn> kwwii, cruft?
<kwwii> andreasn: old stuff, I mean :)
<andreasn> older looking widget themes n stuff?
<andreasn> maybe we should lobby thos again to get rid of glider
<andreasn> but in order to remove Mist, we need to come up with a widget set that still have the heavy steel feeling to it
<andreasn> to replace it with
<SiDi> well, it wouldnt be *so* hard to package them in a gnome-legacy-themes and to add an installed-by-default community-themes package containing all the themes you peeps do
<andreasn> and Mist is flat and fast (I haven't seen any numbers though), even though the right solution probably is to make all the other ones faster
<andreasn> SiDi, possibly. I'm looking at this from the upstream perspective, no idea about Ubuntu
<andreasn> and I don't really care about themes or backgrounds, since everyone else care about that too much :)
<SiDi> well, when former windows users come to ubuntu, they say "omg the themes apart from default are ugly", actually forgetting the non-default theme on windows is kinda ugly, too
<andreasn> oh, really?
<SiDi> not all of them say "omg", to be honnest :>
<andreasn> I thought the general opinion was that the default was not optimal
<andreasn> even though I've come to notice that most people don't really care
<SiDi> Well, amongst the installed themes, i mean
<SiDi> yeh most of people dont care or dont want to bother with switching. but if those dont like the default theme they may aswell stop using ubuntu, just for that
<andreasn> as the important part is the things like the content in the web browser, the fact that Ooo works etc.
<SiDi> what i mean is people who have a look at the theme choose window and see only old themes, etc.
<andreasn> SiDi, would you like to collect some proper user testimonials about this? like written down and stuff?
<andreasn> from like 20 people ()
<andreasn> (or maybe 10 will do)
<SiDi> err i dont have that much people whose pc i installed ubuntu on :)
<andreasn> I think that could be quite useful
<SiDi> well i'll do
<SiDi> but i dont think i'll get that many :)
<andreasn> because all we have right now is testimonials from ourselves
<andreasn> and that kind of sucks :)
<SiDi> basically i'm making my family use ubuntu, so i'll ask them their points of view, etc
<SiDi> but as they usually throw me out for opensource fanatism when i say a word about linux (unless its because they have trouble with their pcs, of course), it might take time..
<kwwii> I think that it is important for ubuntu to ship with a decent set of beautifull themes and that currently the gnome-themes package does need some sorting out
<andreasn> so we would need replacements for one heavy (and cool), one light, one dark, hm, am I forgetting something now?
<andreasn> one pink?
<SiDi> hehe pink defo :D
<SiDi> well, there are not that much different themes in default gnome
<SiDi> apart from mist/industrial/crux, the others are not very used, i think
<kwwii> yeah, crux....ouch
<SiDi> and we have darkroom, dust, kin, miu, impression, human reprise that could be shipped by default
<kwwii> I do think that having something like mist is really important as well
<kwwii> but crux can be crucified ;)
<SiDi> crux's icons, i meant :P when i get bored of gnome ones on old redhat pcs at uni, i put those
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> purple is nice
<SiDi> yeh :p
<SiDi> btw, does any of you know where i'm likely to find the human theme, but in other colours ?
<SiDi> i know a guy packed them on gnome-look.org with a lot of choice, but the site he uploaded them at is down
<andreasn> kwwii, I'm not too happy about crux either, but I keep seeing it being used at conferences (I have no idea why)
<andreasn> but I brought it up with thos, and we both think we should have something good to replace it with
<SiDi> Well, people like purple apparently :p
<kwwii> andreasn: yeah, I loved it about 6-7 years ago
<andreasn> basically something heavy chrome-thing, kind of like how Apple Finder looks like in the most recent release
<andreasn> not copied right off, but something in the same metal styl
<andreasn> e
<SiDi> not copied off, that'd be great :D
<SiDi> i'm so so so sick of the macos/windows clones
<SiDi> see you later, out of power on the laptop :)
<thorwil> firefox and compiz both like to eat my memory
 * _MMA_ is back.
<swalko> _MMA_: hi
<_MMA_> hi
<swalko> _MMA_: i readed wiki
<swalko> _MMA_: i want to talk with you about breathe
<_MMA_> sure
<swalko> _MMA_: i readed on wiki that some oxygen icons may be used or reused
<_MMA_> Yes
<swalko> _MMA_: have you some idea about criterias for choosing that icons?
<_MMA_> Final goal is to redraw everything but if someone wants to reuse Oxygen thats fine.
<swalko> _MMA_: my idea is
<swalko> _MMA_: use some parts from oxygen icons
<swalko> _MMA_: or for start use more oxygen icons
<_MMA_> No criteria. Just personal preference. If someone makes a proposal that doesnt fit with what we are currently doing it doesnt go into Breathe.
<swalko> _MMA_: with comming time their may be polished or replaced
<_MMA_> swalko: What you said is already the plan. And I believe already mentioned on the wiki. I know Ive said it in emails. If not on the wiki I will post it there as well.
<swalko> _MMA_: you are author od currently done icons?
<swalko> _MMA_: of
<_MMA_> The ones that use pieces of Oxygen I have done. The rest have been done by Sebastien.
<swalko> _MMA_: it will be good if will be posted table with missing icons or urgently need icons
<swalko> _MMA_: at example icon for desktop
<_MMA_> swalko: Anything that doesn't have a image in the /Icons section of the wiki needs done.
<swalko> _MMA_: almost everything :)
<_MMA_> And as we're on no time-table, nothing is "urgent"
<swalko> _MMA_: and what about small icon sizes?
<_MMA_> What about them?
<swalko> _MMA_: at example tray icons
<swalko> _MMA_: it will not be better if these icons will be done in black/white version too?
<_MMA_> If you want to work on one that isn't listed in the list (the list is mostly based off the FreeDesktop spec) go right ahead.
<_MMA_> swalko: As the tech for the "tray only" icons aren't final yet, they aren't a focus.
<_MMA_> If you want to keep up with what's going on there and work on those icons that would be great.
<swalko> _MMA_: i may try to do some an we see if they will be usable
<_MMA_> ok
<_MMA_> swalko: As of now, the set mostly focuses on the icons needed for the FreeDesktop spec. Obviously ones will be needed outside of that and we will work on them or add them as they come.
<swalko> _MMA_: may you post link to freedesktop specs?
<_MMA_> It is linked to in the wiki. :) Should be on the front page. ;)
<swalko> _MMA_: ok thanks
<_MMA_> I really worked hard to add all the info needed for people to get involved. There will always be little things to add but for the most part the info there should cover the majority of the questions one would have.
<_MMA_> swalko: I'm sorry. The link is at the top of the pages for the sections of the icons.
<SealV> morning all
<_MMA_> I'll add a not to the frontpage in a min.
 * _MMA_ waves.
<_MMA_> S/NOT/NOTE
<_MMA_> (damn caps lock)
<SealV> I have my casp lock reconfiged to a meta key under windows, no idea how to do that in linux
<SealV> bloody hell, MMA is there any reason why the start here icon even needs to be 128 pix?
<SealV> I mean it is essentially only going to be used on panels, right?
<_MMA_> SealV: For use in other places, yeah. You know, that post to the list about the Brazian theme or something. The one with the attached screenshots. That had a nice looking logo in it. I think something like that would do. It was subtle but nice.
<_MMA_> I'll post a link in a min if you don't know what I'm talking about.
<_MMA_> (trying to wrap up some things around the house)
<SealV> link me when you get the chance :)
<_MMA_> k
<SealV> found it
<_MMA_> cool
<_MMA_> I think it was the one used on the GDM.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-27
<kwwii> andreasn: to be honest, I don't think we have to get rid of mist
<kwwii> but crux and co can go ;)
<andreasn> what ones are currently installed by default?
<andreasn> crux, mist, glossy, clearlooks, glider, HighContrast
<andreasn> did I miss someone?
<kwwii> crux, glider an glossy can go, if you ask me
 * _MMA_ says toss 'em all but Human, Clearlooks and HiContrast.
<_MMA_> ;)
<kwwii> _MMA_: but you are a long-haired metal head
<SealV> screw it, just have redmond I say
<_MMA_> kwwii: I *know* you've seen the pics with my hair gone. I shaved it almost a year ago. ;)
<kwwii> no shit?
<kwwii> honestly, I haven't seen them
 * kwwii wishes he had hair to shave
 * _MMA_ thinks he didn't put 'em on Flickr yet actually. (just new kids ones. http://www.flickr.com/photos/metalmusicaddict
<kwwii> andreasn: so, we are honestly looking at taking out those themes and splitting thingssss
<kwwii> man, I need to update my pics...it has been like 2 months
<andreasn> I wouldn't really mind throwing some of them into -extras
<kwwii> well, I know that I cannot change things upsteam
<andreasn> I think you can actually
<andreasn> thos is just a bit stubborn
<kwwii> but maybe if ubuntu sets an example and leads things in advance for once
<SealV> why glider?
<kwwii> i am in the process of setting up a contest on deviantART as well as having contacted several design schools to fund projects around ubuntu design
<andreasn> it does, in some places, like not showing app launchers for stuff like the pdf reader, image viewer and package app
<andreasn> but upstream didn't apply those, either because they didn't notice
<andreasn> or because noone offered patches
<kwwii> SealV: heh? you are a glider fan?
<SealV> clean, minimal, looks good with right fonts, yeah I guess so..
<andreasn> so we might end up with the same situation with the themes, especially if we don't communicate with eachother
<kwwii> andreasn: sure, and to be honest, at this point I am looking to find the most amazing artwork/mockups/etc that I can find
<SealV> what about that willibex thing that went around
<kwwii> andreasn: definitely
<andreasn> I tried to look around a bit in the ubuntu wiki as well, but didn't find much that wasn't just a wallpaper and some other small thing
<kwwii> SealV: did you see the wallpaper brief for the release?
<kwwii> andreasn: yeah
<SealV> wallpaper brief?
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/jaunty_wallpaper.pdf
<SealV> yup saw that
<kwwii> it was posted to the art mailing list a while ago
<andreasn> but it would be good to discuss what upstream and downstream want out of the gnome-themes package
<andreasn> probably we have similar goals. if it turns out that they differ, it would be a good thing that ubuntu did it's own thing
<andreasn> but otherwise we're just going to end up with a massive amount of bugs all over the place
<andreasn> maybe the desktop summit would be a good place to discuss it?
<andreasn> who is responsible for those menu changes btw? I wonder what the reason for not sending those upstream was. Was it the very stubborn group of people on desktop-devel-list (that never manages to come to real conclusions), or was it a active move to differentiate from the other distros, or just pure laziness?
<SealV> oh hey! sorry to go all ADD: http://www.aldolat.it/grafica/jaunty-jackalope-cover-etichetta-poster/
<SealV> how awesome is that? he mailed me a link
<_MMA_> It's ok. He just stuck together a bunch of pre-existing images. That's not to say it's a bad thing. Just that it's, ok. meh.
<SealV> its awesome because he used miffan :P, I would have used a diff font
<_MMA_> I also /think/ his reflection is off.
<SealV> on the poster
<SealV> so the deviantart idea is still around? I remember seeing that on brainstorm
<kwwii> andreasn: at this point, I would be happy if they moved them anywhere
<kwwii> oops
<kwwii> booooaaahhhh, it is 3 am
<andreasn> yes, I need to go to bed
<andreasn> and you too
<kwwii> andreasn: it would be a really good idea for us to tie things together
<andreasn> yes, have a good nights sleep now!
<kwwii> no doubt, I just got back from london at 1am
<kwwii> see you soon
<SealV> ideapurge: http://www.piccdrop.com/images/1235702538.png
<SealV> critique?
<_MMA_> "Days to go:" gets a little lost IMO. Maybe fill it in.
<SealV> hmm better or worse? :http://www.piccdrop.com/images/1235704915.png
<_MMA_> SealV: Little bit. Thing is, if the pencil lines on the smaller font matched the "30" on thickness you would be fine. The weight/strength on the text I think is lacking.
<_MMA_> Maybe you could convert the text to path and stroke the test with the same color in order to thicken up the feel?
<_MMA_> s/test/text
<SealV> good idea,  think i understand what you mean
<_MMA_> That's *if* you're doin' think in Inkscape. The page curl looks like a GIMP effect.
<_MMA_> s/think/this
<kwwii> erm, my email introducing julian_ didn't make it to the list, did it?
<_MMA_> Not that I saw.
<kwwii> hrm, I will have to resend it
<kwwii> I just realized that like half of the emails I wrote yesterday did not make it
<_MMA_> Ouch
<julian_> kwwii: i'm inhere though :-)
<thorwil> hello julian_. i saw your uds video. i'm curious to see how things will change now :)
<thorwil> julian_: are you subscribed to the ubuntu-art mailing list?
<kwwii> hrm, apparently most of my emails haven't been sent in the last two days :(
<_MMA_> Odd
<julian_> thorwil, hi - yes - kwwii subscribed me yesterday (right kwwii)?
<_MMA_> kwwii: I thought you just didn't love us anymore. :(
<kwwii> julian_: yepp
<kwwii> _MMA_: I'll always have a special place in my heart for you, baby :)
<_MMA_> ;)
<julian_> kwwii, just while i'm here, could you take a look at the email i sent regarding the 3 artwork deadlines for rickspencer3?
<SiDi> Does anyone mind checking this link : http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x0E5E4ECB and telling me if this key is present on the ubuntu keyserver ? i got port 11371 closed here
<kwwii> julian_: yepp, responding now
<julian_> kwwii, thanks.
<_MMA_> SiDi: Links comes up no prob for me.
<julian_> kwwii, also, the 1st release of the best of the best... (sorry)
<kwwii> julian_: right, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions about taht
<kwwii> that
<julian_> go for it
<SiDi> Thanks _MMA_ :)
<SiDi> Be right back
<SiDi> oh noes i have to go to a programming course in 14 mins :(
<thorwil> kwwii: so, what's the situation with backgrounds?
<kwwii> thorwil: I'm in the process of putting information together on this and other issues atm
<thorwil> ok
<kwwii> thorwil: I collected a bunch of pics and we went through them...there are good ideas and I'll highlight them, etc
<SiDi> Who's made the Human Reprise theme ? can't find his name
<kwwii> Sulley Mansford <jws141@yahoo.com>
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> that was not nice
<kwwii> sorry
<SiDi> huh ?
<kwwii> I shouldn't have posted the email address like that
<SiDi> well, true :)
<SiDi> is it the theme's author, though? i won't mail him/her anyways, it's just that i posted a comment on the theme's wiki about a bug with firefox but apparently noone saw it
<SiDi> thus i guess i'll just post on the mail list
<thorwil> one of the participants in the free culture showcase complained that he saw an increase in spam because of having his email adress on the wiki
<SiDi> well, i got my mail address all over launchpad, etc, and i dont receive spam
<SiDi> sounds like i dont interest many persons :D
<thorwil> my mail provider filters ... and i still have collected 865 mails in my junk folder
<SiDi> and i complain about receiving 20 mails per day.. :D
<thorwil> ah, finally i get to know who that Cory guy is!
<americanportal> Hey guy
<americanportal> s
<americanportal> oops
<americanportal> I need some feedback on the Wallpaper I just uploaded for Jaunty
<americanportal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Wallpaper
<americanportal> Let me know what you think
<americanportal> Anyone get my message?
<shadowh511> hey there
<userofubuntu> Hi!
<shadowh511> hows it going?
<userofubuntu> great
<userofubuntu> are you a contributer to ubuntu artwork?
<shadowh511> yeah,
<shadowh511> i just can't upload my submission to the wiki :P
<userofubuntu> oh?
<shadowh511> this is a n00b question, but how do you upload stuff 2 the wiki?
<userofubuntu> well
<userofubuntu> I had a bit of problems myself until I caught the hang of it
<userofubuntu> what are you going to upload?
<userofubuntu> have you created an account?
<shadowh511> png image, firefox icon
<kwwii> shadowh511: add "attachment:name_of_file" (replacing the name_of_file with the name you want to give the file on the wiki
<userofubuntu> well you have to already have the file uploaded onto the wiki
<kwwii> when you save it, the page will then show what to do to upload the file
<userofubuntu> before you can do that
<userofubuntu> Oh take that back then
<shadowh511> nope, that didnt work :( u.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/New Firefox Icon For Edubuntu
<shadowh511> wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/New Firefox Icon For Edubuntu
<kwwii> userofubuntu: no, it should then show you a link in which you can upload the file
<userofubuntu> oh ic
<kwwii> shadowh511: {{attachment:testtest.png}} for instance
<userofubuntu> shadow511: are spaces allowed like that?
 * shadowh511 lsaps face
<shadowh511> id didn't work
<shadowh511> it*
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> it hsould be [[attachment:filename.png]]
<kwwii> then it will be a link when you save it
<kwwii> with the name of the file
<shadowh511> i used curly braces :D
<userofubuntu> there's your problem
<shadowh511> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/New Firefox Icon For Edubuntu
<userofubuntu> it says it does not exist yet
<userofubuntu> that is the webpage
<kwwii> you're not getting all of the text
<shadowh511> look in jaunty plz
<shadowh511> i forgot how to change page names :D
<kwwii> when I look at that page I see that I can click on the firefox.png link to upload the pic
<kwwii> what is the problem?
<userofubuntu> what is the title of your page?
<shadowh511> idk, it wont upload 4 some reason
<shadowh511> there, it works now
<userofubuntu> oh there just saw it
<shadowh511> do you like it?
<userofubuntu> its alright yeah
<kwwii> lol, don't think you're allowed to do that
<userofubuntu> oh yes
<kwwii> in fact, I know your not ;)
<shadowh511> do what?
<kwwii> change the firefox logo in any way
<shadowh511> just in the icon theme
<userofubuntu> shouldn't it be under edubuntu instead of ubuntu?
<shadowh511> i added it to the edubuntu wiki
<userofubuntu> k
<shadowh511> kwwii:is it aginst the rules to change the firefox icon for edubuntu?
<shadowh511> kwwii: is it aginst the rules to change the firefox icon for edubuntu?
<swalko_> thorwill: hi
<swalko_> thorwil: hi
<thorwil> hi swalko_
<swalko_> thorwil: now i am trying to do calculator icon
<swalko_> thorwil: as base i used calc from oxygen and modified it
<thorwil> giid night!
<thorwil> good, even
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-02-28
<zniavre> hello
<zniavre> gnome-look.org seems to be down . right ?
<swalko> thorwil: hi
<thorwil> hi swalko
<swalko> thorwil: right now i finished one icon
<swalko> thorwil: i upload it on the wiki now
<thorwil> swalko: do you have a shot of the oxgen calculator for comparison?
<swalko> thorwil: no
<swalko> thorwil: but my icon is based on oxygen calcutor
<swalko> thorwil: but very modified
<swalko> thorwil: and optimized for smaller sizes
<thorwil> swalko: anyway, the overall impression is good, but the gradient makes it look like the whole surface is curved
<thorwil> i would leave the lcd ghost segments out or make them subtler
<thorwil> _MMA_: ^
<swalko> thorwil: now i kicked out that gradient
<swalko> thorwil: nowi reduced gradients, cleared and optimized 128x128 and 48x48 size and uploaded to wiki
<thorwil> swalko: seems something went wrong. i only see a _huge_ help-about
<SiDi> Lol me too
<SiDi> I've been shocked by its size, though
<swalko> thorwil: wait now i uploaded that
<swalko> thorwil: second
<swalko> thorwil: done
 * thorwil wants multiple-files at once upload on the wiki
<thorwil> swalko: i still see that overly strong grey gradient
<swalko> thorwil: :)
<thorwil> swalko: you should do something about the edges, to show that they are rounded
<swalko> thorwil: i may
<swalko> thorwil: but not today
<swalko> thorwil: may i found somewhere script that will export all icon sizes from my svg?
<thorwil> swalko: there's a script for exporting all sizes from the whole tree of icons
<thorwil> gotta run, good night!
<SiDi> i agree with thorwil : you should set a darker edge and reduce the gradient
<SiDi> good night thorwil
<swalko> thorwil: i try to find, good nigh
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-01
<shadowh511> hey, any new art stuff?
<mtholdenss> hey just thought i'd let you know that on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Backgrounds when you select full size link for seude backgrounds it doesn't load the full resolution version.
<mtholdenss> be great if someone could fix the broken link
<swalko_> mtholdenss: link?
<mtholdenss> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Backgrounds   when you select full size link for seude backgrounds it doesn't load the full resolution version
<swalko_> which link?
<swalko_> first
<mtholdenss> yeah the first one
<mtholdenss> under the heading ready for use > suede
<swalko_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Backgrounds?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=suede_flat_1.png
<swalko_> mtholdenss: fixed
<mtholdenss> thanks
<mtholdenss> i'm loving the creativity coming from these designs
<mtholdenss> just to let you know that suede_flat_1.png is 7mb and may not be so friendly for users that don't have fast internet
<swalko_> mtholdenss: i am not uploader, i only fixed that problem with link ... it may do everyone, because wiki is based on open concept
<swalko_> mtholdenss: you may simply rescale that image, upload it on wiki and add link with smaller size
<swalko_> thorwil: hi
<thorwil> hi!
<swalko_> thorwil: i updated my icon ... look on wiki
<swalko_> thorwil: submission is down
<thorwil> :(
<thorwil> swalko_: thanks for fixing my typo on the backgrounds page!
<swalko_> thorwil: nfw
<swalko_> thorwil: i have one idea how to improve icon creation coordination
<swalko_> thorwil: add to wiki "work in progress" table with icon and artist name on that is worked upon
<thorwil> swalko_: that could be nice, yes
<thorwil> _MMA_: ^
<swalko_> thorwil: and next idea ... add on wiki page where will be in steps described work with one canvas workflow
<swalko_> thorwil: if you want we may cooperate on that
<swalko_> thorwil: i am experienced user, but it taked me little time to completely understand one canvas workflow
<thorwil> swalko_: i thought we already had a brief explanation
<swalko_> thorwil: brie isnt enought
<swalko_> thorwil: and
<swalko_> thorwil: i looked at videos
<swalko_> thorwil: after reading bried and seened videos
<swalko_> thorwil: i haved problems
<swalko_> thorwil: may be i missed something ..  but i must find scripts (from tango vcs), find in which layer i must add context, icon name and etc
<thorwil> swalko_: i'm currently dedicated to backgrounds, but if you write an outline and/or collect open questions, _MMA_ or I can reowrk that later on
<swalko_> thorwil: i may try to write step by step guide to use one canvas workflow
<thorwil> cool
<swalko_> thorwil: i mean in week it will be done ... maybe soon
<swalko_> thorwil: i put then existing template + add python an ruby scripts
<thorwil> swalko_: you shouldn't have to deal with any scripts
<swalko_> thorwil: scripts downloade from tange vcs
<swalko_> thorwil: not my :)
<swalko_> thorwil: is there a better way?
<thorwil> swalko_: yes, i guess. check out the bzr branch
<thorwil> otherwise just pick one of the files on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons
<swalko_> thorwil: peoples dont need scripts ... but artists may want ... at example i want to use my icons ... i created my personal icon set (mix of breathe + human + my icons)
<swalko_> thorwil: and that scripts saved my time
<savvas> what kind of a script do you need? converting svg to png?
<swalko_> savvas: i have that scripts
<swalko_> savvas: export all icon sizes with one script
<thorwil> swalko_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions is back. i think you should add 2 outlines to the large version of the calculator. make the outer a bit darker than the body, maybe a little touch of blue. use the inner outline for a very subtle highlight on the top and maybe sides, but not bottom
<swalko_> savvas: i know what you mean ... but my idea was to create that calculator flat
<swalko_> thorwil: i know what you mean ... but my idea was to create that calculator flat
<swalko_> thorwil: something like "unibody" calculator :)
<thorwil> swalko_: i never ever saw a calculator with sharp edges. that would be a painful experience ;)
<swalko_> thorwil: new times, new designs :)
<swalko_> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons i may then put icons on what i am working
<swalko_> thorwil: it will be good to add artist names to icons in WIP
<thorwil> swalko_: you really have to talk with _MMA_ ;)
<swalko_> thorwil: ok ok
<swalko_> thorwil: have you here "meeting days or meeting time" ?
<thorwil> swalko_: no. it's usually no problem to get him. i don't even know in which (american) timezone he is
<swalko_> thorwil: i try him sometime in week
<kwwii> thorwil: in the east (6 hours from us)
<thorwil> :)
<thorwil> hrmpf. letting gimp render the svg is also no solution, as it doesn't support masking, it seems
<swalko_> thorwil: inkscape: export
<swalko_> thorwil: multiple wanted size by power of two
<swalko_> thorwil: because inkscape has buggy (blurred) export to bitmap
<thorwil> swalko_: no, i'm struggling with a background. the inkscape export shows color-banding
<swalko_> thorwil: i seened that too, but i meant for it was responsible my monitor
<swalko_> thorwil: i dont know what tool is using script used by me, but you may try it
<thorwil> swalko_: the banding is a monitor issue, sometimes. but often not :(
<swalko_> thorwil: i have very good monitor, and i meant that was issue
<swalko_> thorwil: try that script and you see
<swalko_> thorwil: http://picasaweb.google.com/milan.krivda/Amarok#5288953664598001922
<swalko_> thorwil: very ugly banding
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> swalko_: and you found a way to render that one with better quality?
<swalko_> thorwil: no ... i forgot that, because i meaned that isnt inkscape issue
<swalko_> thorwil: have you screen with your background?
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Backgrounds?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=jumps.jpg
<thorwil> well, the JPG made it worse, of course
<swalko_> thorwil: my was much worster
<swalko_> thorwil: you may try te export only bblurred part with inkscape
<swalko_> thorwil: non blurred with gimp
<thorwil> swalko_: that's what i'm doing right now
<swalko_> thorwil: and combine
<kwwii> have you tried rendering it with batik? I used to do that a long long time ago
<swalko_> thorwil: and try to contact inkscape devs
<swalko_> thorwil: i newer used that
<swalko_> thorwil: illustrator work bad with svgs
<swalko_> thorwil: you may try karbon
<kwwii> karbon sucks
<thorwil> i just tried exporting double size to scale down in gimp. that used as overlay with the x1 export shows there's absilutely no difference
<swalko_> thorwil: are you sure if it is inkscape responsive for that?
<thorwil> swalko_: yes
<swalko_> thorwil: i meaned by multiple by power of two
<thorwil> an i know that the issue has been raised on the inkscape list already
<swalko_> thorwil: that step must be performed always by exporting
<swalko_> thorwil: that will not solve your problem, only make picture sharper after resizing in gimp
<thorwil> swalko_: i'm working with 2560 x 1600. i will not go beyond doubling that ;)
<thorwil> swalko_: my little experiment suggests it doesn't even lead to a sharper image. zero difference
<swalko_> thorwil: you maked difference mask on doth pictures?
<swalko_> both
<thorwil> yes
<swalko_> thorwil: and absolutelly none difference?
<thorwil> yeah
<swalko_> thorwil: o must try
<thorwil> food, bbl
<swalko_> thorwil: in oxygen that was one from first points that pinheiro pointed me
<thorwil> kwwii: searching for batik in synaptic only delivers a libxmlgraphics-commons-java
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, batik is the svg engine made by the mozilla people
<kwwii> it is in java
<Cimi> andreasn_, if you add Inherits=hicolor,Human in the gnome iconset you can have the new notifications with the gnome iconset
<Cimi> it's an ugly workaround until they move them into hicolor, but it works
<andreasn> yeah, but then you kind of end up with a circular dependency
<andreasn> I currently don't run Jaunty, so I expect it to be fixed until the stable version is released
<Cimi> andreasn, it's just until they move those icons into hicolor
<Cimi> oh ok
<andreasn> but thanks for the tip anyway
<kwwii> the icons should be in a hicolor dir sometime very soon...it was put in the package on friday, I know that
<kwwii> because I told them where to put them, etc :)
<andreasn> kwwii, great, thanks!
<kwwii> andreasn: sorry it wasn't right the first time around
<kwwii> the truth is, if they had at least included the icons I gave them weeks ago this all wouldn't have been such a big deal
<kwwii> but anyway, time to take my kid to a friends...bbl
<andreasn> oh, well, it didn't even get into the alpha release, right?
<andreasn> I can imagine worse things have happened between those :)
<SealV> good morning
<SealV> http://imgur.com/39P0N
<SealV> flesh tones.. would like feedback
<thorwil> SealV: looks rather agressive
<SealV> the white strokes, probably.
<SealV> agressive in color? or style?
<swalko_> for me ... colors
<swalko_> left side are colored good
<swalko_> but right side uses agressive colors
<SealV> agressive colors, I must admit I do not understand, swalko what is it about the right colors that you do not like? er.. hue? value?
<swalko_> color balance
<SealV> ah. I see..hmm
<swalko_> concrete colors arent agressive
<swalko_> but personally
<swalko_> i like balanced backgrounds
<swalko_> if i look on that background my eyes go to right side
<swalko_> of that bg
<swalko_> but overall
<swalko_> that background look nice and clean
<SealV> Ah now I see it  thanks
<SealV> Perhaps a different brown might work better
<SealV> instead of the redpink
<swalko_> yes
<swalko_> if you balance right that colors, i mean it will be very very good background for me
<swalko_> i like their clean style
<swalko_> and next positive thing
<swalko_> you bgt may be nice colored in every color what you want
<SealV> did not think about that, definitely worth trying out
<SealV> http://imgur.com/3AIC7
<SealV> better or worse?
<savvas> it's extreme, but too extreme to keep for more than 5 minutes :P
<swalko_> SealV: better, but i am still missing color balance
<swalko_> SealV: try to use colors very close to colors on left side (i like colors on the left half)
<SealV> savas: the first or the second? or both?
<SealV> http://imgur.com/3ATWV
<SealV> toned it way down. used brown
<swalko_> SealV: beutiful
<swalko_> SealV: thats way i liked it :)
<swalko_> SealV: i must go, bye
<marv1> hi there, its my first time in this channnel and i had some time to make a jaunty wallpaper, pls visit and tell me your opinion, thanks! http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/jaunty+sunset?content=100270&PHPSESSID=5f099a49c7ac361651121dfcee18115c
<swalko_> Selv: i looked now for you
<swalko_> SealV: i looked now for you
<SealV> hey!, had to go study for chem lol
<SealV> whats up?
<swalko_> SealV: you done your bg in inkscape?
<SealV> yup, avoid gimp like the plague
<swalko_> SealV: may you upload svg on wiki?
<swalko_> SealV: i want your bg in my collection :)
<SealV> oh yeah. Just need to scale it up for bigger resoltuions
<SealV> gimme two minutes
<swalko_> SealV: may you upload svg?
<SealV> yes
<swalko_> SealV: thank you
<SealV> np :)
<swalko_> SealV: when you upload your icon ping me please
<SealV> kk
<SealV> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Hself
<SealV> <swalko_>: I uploaded it
<SealV> swalko_: I uploaded it
<swalko_> SealV: thank you, i noticed that, right now i am exporting from your svg:)
<swalko_> SealV: now i am using your bg on my desktop
<swalko_> SealV: brown version is looking very nice
<SealV> thanks :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-01
<thorwil> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/images/blog/gnome-3-widgets-shaded.png
<troy_s> thorwil: Ugh. Someone tell those two to just stop. Please.
<troy_s> thorwil: There I said it.
<thorwil> troy_s: i guess you would even ask an jackhammer operator to stay away from calligraphy
<troy_s> thorwil: We covered those mocks a while back. It's classic - padding padding whitespace padding (cuz' that's contemporary design right?) bold space bold bold space padding padding HUGEZOMGAWESOME.
<troy_s> thorwil: All of this attention to GNOME 3 as a 'step' and we have some sort of schlocky redo by the masters.
<thorwil> troy_s: gtk theming is a choice of lipstick for the pig, anyway
<troy_s> thorwil: Forest through trees.
<troy_s> thorwil: It actually matters.
<troy_s> thorwil: Sadly, not enough people have read that seminal article on Aesthetics and Usability. The net sum is given in the first page and we already know the punchline. Aesthetics matter more than all of the usability in a system.
<troy_s> thorwil: So it isn't so much lipstick as the pig.
<troy_s> thorwil: And besides, it is impossible to really evaluate usability because all of our slippery fish refuse to acknowledge who the hell it is for. Nothing more than a great huge pile of moot.
<troy_s> thorwil: But those mocks make me absolutely cringe. Shudder.
<thorwil> troy_s: the buttons make me wonder if there is a thing like spacing-blindness
<troy_s> thorwil: It's just a big ball of meh. And colourblind as fsck.
<troy_s> thorwil: But that would be another matter.
<thorwil> though, at this point i have to admit that i made mockups much worse than that few years ago
<troy_s> thorwil: I think everyone has. I don't think that is the point.
<troy_s> thorwil: The point is, wtf is that thing striving for? There seems to be a bastion of craptastic aesthetic. Period. But alas, the fanboys will cheer it on. HUGE HEAVY CLUNKY GNOME3.
<thorwil> troy_s: never saw a single word about what it is supposed to achieve
<troy_s> thorwil: Shocker.
<troy_s> thorwil: Spreading more ftardness.
<troy_s> thorwil: I am pretty sure that's the goal.
<troy_s> thorwil: And yes, I fully appreciate it is way to easy to sit on a sideline and fire pot shots at things. Yes yes... and the customary response is "Well everyone always gets worked up about..."
<troy_s> thorwil: It's just sad though, when you have the 'go to chums' stink worse than 99% of the random throw-crap-at-wall mocks on DA.
<troy_s> thorwil: That Locus mock was _one_ fellow sitting alone in _one_ room and his mocks (individual choices on elements and interaction models aside) simply _destroy_ those utterly classic mocks.
<troy_s> thorwil: _Destroy_. As in blow all of the combined crap out of that camp out of the water to the tune of "A6 - you sunk my battleship!"
<thorwil> troy_s: got a link?
<troy_s> http://www.behance.net/Gallery/Locus-OS/415461
<troy_s> thorwil: It certainly isn't perfect (whatever that means) and is a far cry from anything. But as a _first pass_ mock, it is a no contest with that blue monstrosity.
<thorwil> troy_s: today i saw a 2nd blog post regarding the vision for Krita. comes out that Peter Sikking helped the team. the same guy who works on Gimp (also started with a product vision there)
<troy_s> thorwil: Yeah great.
<troy_s> thorwil: I read that and went "Here we go again"
<troy_s> thorwil: We are _so_ fskcing obsessed with whether or not there is a gripper here or single window mode there that our fundamental core toolset sucks in _ability_.
<troy_s> thorwil: It's like Stallman caring about preferences for the command line when gcc won't compile the code.
<troy_s> thorwil: Sadly, it's just yet-another-guy-guessing.
<troy_s> thorwil: Had they done even a _shred_ of research they would have learnt that Michael Terry is not only a usability specialist but he actually studied professional artists as part of his higher level degree.
<troy_s> thorwil: Just based on his random guesses alone you could likely prioritize your design thinking.
<thorwil> troy_s: this one? http://hci.uwaterloo.ca/faculty/mterry/
<troy_s> thorwil: Yes.
<thorwil> troy_s: he was at the UDS in Dallas
<troy_s> thorwil: Yes I know.
<troy_s> thorwil: The Krita devs did one thing though - they listened to the concept artist for Durian. He basically said what many have said before "The tools suck performance wise"
<thorwil> troy_s: damn great presenter. very fast, yet easy to follow even for ears that lack training with english
<troy_s> thorwil: He's a very very clever cookie.
<troy_s> thorwil: Although I am torn on his approach to GIMP.
<thorwil> troy_s: heh, i'm too
<troy_s> thorwil: His approach is taking an existing audience and making GIMP better for that audience. I'd probably disagree as our culture only has one app that is even close to being useful and it stinks.
<troy_s> thorwil: So while his view is entirely pragmatic and justified, in terms of a tool that we can use to develop higher end output... I just am torn. :(
<troy_s> thorwil: I'd even take the hideous performance if it would embrace deep colour and linear colour.
<troy_s> thorwil: But alas, we have buffoons in our culture that not only are clueless but also somehow defend things that they understand nothing about (http://identi.ca/conversation/11761531#notice-15873957)
<troy_s> thorwil: Absolutely _clueless_ and worse, defending things that he clearly knows fsck all about.
<troy_s> thorwil: Complete donkey.
<thorwil> fun
<troy_s> thorwil: Frustrating. It's no shame to not understand something. We all don't understand things.
<troy_s> thorwil: It is entirely a different matter when you don't understand something and attempt to provide solutions when your understanding is so utterly crippled that you are incompetent and unaware.
<troy_s> thorwil: What is funny though is that in a purely technical sense, the hobby photographer / image manipulator gains more out of deep colour than a professional grade photographer because their skillset dictates that they are likely to make more mistakes and need more adjustment ability.
<troy_s> thorwil: So what's up at your end?
<thorwil> troy_s: i'm still recovering from shock, because the manual project leader wanted to use slicing to create a website with text in Droid Sans
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> thorwil: Hrm... I haven't been following. (Sadly my bloody post gets pulled up in all sorts of scenarios as some sort of "Droid Sans is BAD" context, which misses the point entirely)
<thorwil> troy_s: heh, i pasted the link and he was amazed at the as he called it in-depth analysis of a font
 * thorwil doesn't remember the exact words
<troy_s> thorwil: Well... it's unfortunate that most miss the boat on it. My fault largely, as I should have said "This isn't really about Droid Sans"
<troy_s> thorwil: It's about _why_.
<troy_s> thorwil: And obviously context.
<thorwil> troy_s: i recall that you repeat in the text several times that it all doesn't mean it would be a bad font, so why put blame on yourself?
<troy_s> thorwil: Because I can see the fricking places it shows up. LOL.
<troy_s> thorwil: So apparently I need to surround it in padding and make it blink in blue.
<troy_s> thorwil: Maybe I should take a tip from those GNOME mocks.
<thorwil> troy_s: that pile of things on the top is a perfect example for one of my issues: i'm said to be the artwork team leader. not much of a team, but i feel responsible. now if in such a situation, someone creates a little graphic that is just bad ...
<troy_s> thorwil: Did you guys ever get the drop of the changes to the logo etc?
<thorwil> troy_s: ... i end up being seen as bad guy if i try to just shoot it down. otherwise i would have to create a replacement. for which i might not have the time
<troy_s> thorwil: Good times eh?
<troy_s> thorwil: LOL
<thorwil> SiDi: what are you intending to do about it?
<SiDi> thorwil: hello
<SiDi> what should I do about what?
<troy_s> thorwil: It is difficult to be certain. I think that as long as everyone can at least accept that judgement calls will be made, and hopefully made for the right reasons (the target of the whole effort) then perhaps it makes things easier.
<troy_s> SiDi: About time you showed up.
<troy_s> SiDi: Everyone has been waiting here.
<thorwil> SiDi: who else could do anything about it?
<SiDi> Ok, so I was expected to show up today?
<SiDi> Well, hi there, I'm there, hope you enjoy! :D
<thorwil> things can only get better now that you are here
<SiDi> Hm okay
<SiDi> Am I allowed to be dubitative?
<thorwil> maybe after i have been contemplative
<SiDi> Damn I didn't know I missed you so much
<troy_s> SiDi: Sorry, couldn't resist Thorwil's lead.
<thorwil> it never hit me that you missed us so much
<thorwil> huh? i lead to nowhere!
<SiDi> you only strongly suggest a direction to take
<SiDi> :)
<thorwil> SiDi: to this day, i'm always surprised when being taken somewhat authoritative
<SiDi> It's because you're wiser than most other people
<SiDi> so we tend to see you as an acceptable figure of authority
<troy_s> Ok... I must bolt to the mail for five minutes. Sorry to leave the suckholefest. Lol.
<thorwil> SiDi: oh wow, thank you
 * thorwil blushes
<thorwil> so he has until :40
<SiDi> Yeah, then we punish him!
<thorwil> with double outlines
<troy_s> Woo
<troy_s> Don't forget some extra padding
<thorwil> troy_s: goo on you, i just wanted to say Clunk!
<SiDi> thorwil: i propose we faint to ignore troy_s for another 5 minutes
<thorwil> SiDi: oh, i've gotten soft. it's not just a maximum, but also minimum!
<thorwil> so much for that
<thorwil> pink comic sans on green ground, almost but not quite centered!
<troy_s> thorwil: You can't knock Comic Sans when we have Ubuntu Titling font.
<troy_s> thorwil: Sorry.
<thorwil> troy_s: i think it was the "Title" font, "Titling" being quite a bit better (but still not good for much)
<troy_s> thorwil: I think Christian tried to make it better, but it started out limping out of the gate.
<troy_s> thorwil: It simply needs to be banished. Everywhere. Period.
<troy_s> thorwil: No exceptions.
<thorwil> at some point i should take care of the ubuntu brainstorm header
<troy_s> thorwil: Did you hear anything about Inkscape's added color management stuff? I was trying to find out if they added elements or just changed the fricking ui?
<troy_s> thorwil: Especially linear color, but I doubt that.
<thorwil> troy_s: no idea
<troy_s> hrm... xicc is interesting.
<troy_s> thorwil: Why exactly does Brainstorm exist?
<troy_s> thorwil: It still numbs me.
<thorwil> troy_s: it seemed like it could be good to collect and filter ideas and gather feedback. i'm not in a position that i could evaluate it's success or failure
<troy_s> thorwil: 1) I guess the question is why? If no one in a position to implement anything cares, it's moot. 2) Noise. Without some sort of granularity on demographic every single plus one will be countered with a minus one, or worse, not. In the last event, people erroneously consider a net trend as data.
<troy_s> thorwil: Just sort of seems... well... on par. lol.
<SiDi> An attempt tn getting feedback, even if you can't always do what your users want or make a good use of it, is already much better than working in a closed box and not looking at what the outside world thinks about you.
<thorwil> troy_s: it's build on an optimistic take on the value of ideas. i didn't second guess the concept back then, i concentrated on the artwork and that was it
<thorwil> troy_s: nowadays i'm of course beyond optimistic-anything and know of the uselessness of just-ideas
<thorwil> ;p
<troy_s> thorwil: Lol.
<troy_s> thorwil: Well I'm actually sort of wondering why someone hasn't seen the value of actual deep data.
<troy_s> thorwil: For those that are willing to give it.
<troy_s> thorwil: Age would even be huge.
<troy_s> thorwil: Gender.
<troy_s> thorwil: Culture / Region (I don't imagine anyone from China or Japan really can use that site for example)
<troy_s> thorwil: It would actually be _valuable_ if it gathered data.
<thorwil> age is the favorite poll question on the forum. you can get to know the average age or maybe even rough age distribution of forum dwellers who answer in such polls!!
<troy_s> thorwil: Imagine the trending charts you could develop? Imagine if you hooked up the database of data to some sort of chart generating system on the frontend? That would be pretty damn cool.
<troy_s> thorwil: LOL
<troy_s> thorwil: Bingo. Sociology 101.
<troy_s> thorwil: I was fortunate enough to shift degrees after two years in another degree.
<thorwil> troy_s: how many degress are you shifted now?
<troy_s> thorwil: Had the upside of exposing me to first and second year psychology / sociology etc. All that sort of stuff bubbles to the top. Not the least of which is how to create a poll that isn't biased - Which is ... nigh on impossible. LOL.
<troy_s> thorwil: I only have one degree.
<troy_s> thorwil: I started in a different area.
<troy_s> thorwil: Then took some time off and went back and got the degree which I hold now.
<troy_s> thorwil: But even that limited exposure to sociology was a pretty big eye opener.
<troy_s> pkill pulse
<troy_s> ACK
<thorwil> NACK
<thorwil> troy_s: anyway, brainstorm does have "Ideas in development" and "Implemented ideas" for some reason
<troy_s> thorwil: Yeah the "Oh... we happened to already do that."
<troy_s> lol
<thorwil> enough for today, cya!
<Viper550> hey, for next Ubuntu, can we make this the splash screen? http://www.room17.com/ramblings/wandering_chaos/caldera1.gif D:
<troy_s> Oh how so little has changed.
<troy_s> Oh how so little has changed.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-02
<zniavre> good morning
<knome> morning
<zniavre> is it thinkable (now we get rounded menus and all) to get text zone rounded too ?
<thorwil> vish: to my understanding, in gtk there is only one set of states regarding how a button is rendered. that means prelight is exclusive, can't be combined with either on or off
<vish> thorwil: yup , wasnt that what i said too   :)
<vish> thorwil: something new needs to be done in murrine to differentiate the two forms of prelight
<vish> meh , i dont expect Cimi would fix it though ;p
<thorwil> vish: that would be the workaround. the real solution would be to get some sense into gtk
<vish> thorwil: ha , even tougher to change something in gtk  ;)
<knome> hey thorwil :) you going to come to london on Wed?
<thorwil> http://cache1.emptees.com/images/118011/emptees_ninja.jpg
<troy_s> thorwil: What's up Thor?
<thorwil> troy_s: huge empty space with some free floating oranges. ice bears are dancing on them
<troy_s> thorwil: Cool.
<troy_s> thorwil: I'd sprinkle some blue in there.
<thorwil> troy_s: that's amazing, as the empty space is actually dark blue
<troy_s> thorwil: Any interesting news?
<troy_s> thorwil: I'm pzyschic.
<thorwil> troy_s: nope
<troy_s> thorwil: Actually, there is an interesting new study. They gave Paracetum Inkscape and they cranked out a GNOME 3 theme.
 * thorwil has to look up paracetum
<thorwil> troy_s: 272 hits. misspelled such that google doesn't offer the right way?
<troy_s> thorwil: LOL. Yes indeed. Bacteria.
<thorwil> troy_s: bacteria do design by amoeba? ;)
<thorwil> http://www.walkingdead.net/perl/euphemism
<thorwil> troy_s: seems i decided to start my company in estonia/finland: http://www.thorwil.com/
<troy_s> Oh what luck.
<troy_s> thorwil: You are a building company.
<troy_s> thorwil: How cool.
 * thorwil goes hunting for dinner and hopes it won't move too much
<thorwil> plop
<thorwil> troy_s: i'm actually aware of that since years. i think it even used to show up on a google search, but i buried them
<thorwil> Equiet: just saw over in gnome-design that there's an in-progress ruby-on-rails implementation of Mairin's design-hub-kinda-thing
<Equiet> thorwil: I have already seen that.
<Equiet> Hopefully, they will at least notice my proposal.
<thorwil> http://www.uie.com/articles/critique/
<kwwii> thorwil: nice
<knome> hey kwwii ;)
<kwwii> hi knome
<thorwil> in a bit less than 20 minutes, there will be the EMEA membership board meeting in #ubuntu-meeting. guess who will be a topic :)
<troy_s> thorwil: You get it?
<knome> thorwil, ping! :)
<knome> thorwil, i'll be there to cheer for you.
<knome> troy_s, they're only just starting the meeting
<thorwil> knome: cool, ty
<knome> thorwil, congrats :)
<thorwil> thanks, knome, troy_s
<troy_s> Woop
<knome> thorwil, Investigate the use of the Google App Engine to write a tool that helps with selecting wallpapers from the Flickr pool (Flickr itself lacks features that would make this a lot easier)
<knome> thorwil, what would that mean?
<thorwil> knome: last time we had several of the design team and 3 community members going through the submissions
<thorwil> troy_s was one of them
<knome> thorwil, yeah? so how should that be easier?
<troy_s> thorwil: I was just cheering the result.
<troy_s> thorwil: I am not an Ubuntu member and have no such aspirations. I am just happy to see you get something you desire.
<thorwil> knome: to invite submissions to another flickr group. that was the shortlist
<troy_s> thorwil: And uh yes... I doubt I shall be extended that role this time around :)
<knome> thorwil, okay. wouldn't the flickr api make that readily possible?
<thorwil> troy_s: i just called you a community member in that context :)
<troy_s> thorwil: I actually have some seriously deep issues with the whole fscking contest crap anyways, and it is about time I focus on standing by them.
<troy_s> thorwil: No - I know you know. I just wanted to be clear. :)
<troy_s> Never fear... they shall continue.
<thorwil> knome: what i wanted to explain: even building that shortlist required what is basically a hack
<knome> thorwil, umh, okay
<knome> thorwil, so you'd like to be able to...?
<thorwil> knome: plus no possibility to search for license within the pool
<troy_s> thorwil: The _proper_ approach that works for just about everyone with a browser would be to use montage.
<knome> troy_s, i don't know about pools, but you can use http://compfight.com/ to search by license
<troy_s> thorwil: As in explicitly bind all of them to a licence on pushing (Launchpad does this)
<knome> thorwil, ^
<knome> thorwil, probably if you search by the pool name, you'll get the pool results
<thorwil> knome: simply marking of images to add them to the shortlist
<troy_s> thorwil: And have a backend script run that pulls in the work, montages the results, and provides a SINGLE jpg image of the thumbnails that is easily viewable on the wiki.
<troy_s> thorwil: No need for extra crap.
<thorwil> knome: having the results of all participants collected an shown on a page
<knome> thorwil, should the shortlist be something that would have to be on flickr?
<troy_s> knome: Problem isn't license searching - it is providing of work with a license explicitly stated.
<thorwil> knome: no
<troy_s> knome: That _must_ be _forced_ at the very first click.
<vish> damn it! i missed it :/  i wanted to -1 thorwil  ;p     stupid movie had me distracted..
<troy_s> knome: Many don't get licenses and don't care.
<thorwil> vish: heh, thanks nonetheless
<vish> thorwil: yay , congrats , we both are back to back :D
<troy_s> vish: How goes Manual?
<vish> no pun intended ;)
<vish> troy_s: its a bit on hold lately
<knome> troy_s, yeah..
<troy_s> vish: That's stinky.
<troy_s> knome: First up, before _any_ evaluation, needs to be the highest level stop measure - license.
<troy_s> knome: From there, you can bicker and wander aimlessly for empty terms such as 'professional', 'beautiful', 'ugly', etc.
<knome> ;)
<troy_s> knome: Although I'd probably suggest that a second level filter would be raw image quality in terms of pixel resolution. From there it gets into abstract things about quality of sensor (Yellow / Magenta spectrum dispersion off of the sensor micro-lenses or RGB dispersion off of the lens)
<knome> troy_s, okay
<troy_s> knome: But license is obviously the first blocker.
<thorwil> knome: while i do see all the same issues troy_s mentions, i'm more willing to make the 70% solution happen instead of going all or nothing :)
<troy_s> thorwil: As I was saying though - you can pretty much avoid all of that if someone figures out some sort of attachment system for bzr.
<troy_s> thorwil: Because I know for certain that explicit license issue is already present.
<knome> thorwil, hehe, okay :)
<thorwil> troy_s: yes and no. there could be much better infrastructure. but flickr is so widely known, it adds pull
<troy_s> thorwil: Weigh it out. A web interface is all that is required. Seems to me that Flickr, for all of the upside, makes for chasing after people after-the-fact. No high resolution uploads, same issues of CC, etc.
<troy_s> thorwil: But I doubt anyone has prioritised the _needs_ of such a system before they head out and start pushing pixels around showing off mock ups.
<thorwil> troy_s: there's a lot in my head about that and it's almost all architecture, not layouts ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: I would hope that anyone interested would be able to load a webpage.
<troy_s> thorwil: I don't know exactly what Flickr brings to the table other than 'Oh I know Flickr'... maybe existing hobby photographers?
<thorwil> troy_s: many people already having an account is quite a big thing
<thorwil> troy_s: of course lowering the hurdles also means you see much that can't be serious
<thorwil> troy_s: even if there's not a single photo in the pool where you'd say it is all that i should be, i still think the outcome of last round was one of the best things happening in ubuntu-artwork. don't forget that people seem to enjoy it
<troy_s> thorwil: Yeah I don't really know where I sit on that. It ultimately will distill down to the "Who is picking" and that really can make all of the contest rubbish moot when there is a much bigger issue at hand (not that the contest isn't entirely wtf are we doing)
<thorwil> cue "this says more about the overall quality/expectations than about that set of photos" ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: But realistically this has been tried so many times before. The showstopper was high up the foodchain.
<thorwil> troy_s: please put on idea onto brainstorm: "remove the showstopper at the top of the foodchain"
<troy_s> thorwil: It doesn't take a genius to realize that HEY there needs to be some sort of COLOUR in there. Christ... a random spattering of idiots could have figured that out. It just adds a sense of diversity and it makes for at least an _option_ in there for those that aren't visually impaired.
<troy_s> thorwil: Lol.
<thorwil> tastf - troy appointed showstopper at the top of the foodchain
<troy_s> thorwil: ? WTF is tastf?
<thorwil> acronym - expanded, sheesh
<troy_s> thorwil: I GOOGLED DAMN YOU
<thorwil> lol
<thorwil> troy_s: i hope you found nothing nsfw ... unless you like to
<knome> lol
<troy_s> thorwil: No found nothing.
<thorwil> that's awesome for a 5 character string
<thorwil> enough for another day, good night / cya! :)
<knome> night th
<knome> thhhhh
<knome> :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-03
<thorwil> good morning!
<knome> morning thorwil :)
<thorwil> yo knome
<knome> how are you?
<thorwil> knome: alright, thanks. and you?
<knome> pretty good. :)
<thorwil> i'm considering to buy a domain and polish my wordpress blog a bit
<knome> you should do that :)
<thorwil> though longer term i want a better website
<knome> which means?
<thorwil> more control on all levels and some cleverness regarding categorization
<knome> WP isn't enough for that or..
<thorwil> not a base install. assuming there's no way around touching code myself, i want python
<knome> why wouldn't there be a way to touch the code?
<knome> oh, yeah
<knome> i got it :P
<thorwil> heh
<knome> what about extending WP with a plugin?
<thorwil> guess i should look what's available there
<knome> but can't you have multiple levels of tags already?
<thorwil> sure i can
<knome> soo.... :D
<knome> what was the problem again?
<thorwil> wordpress.com doesn't allow me to edit css unless i pay dollars. don't recall the price, just that it was ridiculous for just that
<knome> oh, .com
<knome> :)
<thorwil> so for that alone i will need another solution
<thorwil> then i want a section on my site that is more like a wiki, but where edits will result in drafts for journal entries
<knome> i want that as well
<knome> ;)
<thorwil> there should be a "portfolio item" kind of post, to be shown both in the journal and a portfolio section
<thorwil> such posts should be associated with work-in-progress posts for the same project
<knome> be back in 15
<thorwil> k
<knome> ugh
<knome> couldn't get back then
<knome> iainfarrell, morning! :)
<iainfarrell> hey knome
<iainfarrell> I'm afraid I'm still sick
<iainfarrell> and need to get better
<knome> yeah, no problem.
<iainfarrell> but Marcus and Ivanka are looking at your ideas
<knome> great
<knome> will they send me some vector stuff?
<iainfarrell> yeah
<iainfarrell> we don't have final files yet
<knome> okay, fantastic
<iainfarrell> well
<iainfarrell> they do
<iainfarrell> but I don't
<knome> ;]
<iainfarrell> as I'm at home
<knome> yup
<knome> going to take a nap. see you later
 * thorwil wonders if Jono ever recovers from being tickled pink
<thorwil> http://vimeo.com/9580375
<knome> thorwil, what was that about jono?
<thorwil> knome: it's my impression that he likes to say he would be tickled pink when announcing things. like the next uds. it's not rare that he announces something
<thorwil> knome: a pink Jono makes for a rather disturbing mental image, so maybe at least some announcements should be left to more color-stable people
<knome> heh
<huayra> 7j
<thorwil> 8k
<knome> 9l
<vish> 6m
<thorwil> vish just isn't progressive :)
<vish> heh didnt want to enter double digits ;)
<huayra> sorry. my daughter took over the machine
<thorwil> huayra: nah, i was glad for the distraction :)
<vish> huayra: we just like being jerks ;)
<huayra> she hacked me
<huayra> just kidding ;)
<zniavre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand#New%20GtkThemes
<zniavre> is that a "project" or the real new theme ?
<vish> zniavre: i think you stumbled upon the new branding before it was made public ;)
<zniavre> it is public ...
<kwwii> omg!
<kwwii> indeed it is!
<kwwii> now everyone can see what we've been working on
<kwwii> at the pub, be online later for a qa session
<knome> lol
<zniavre> is it murrine and aurora engine?
<knome> kwwii, q&a you mean? :P
<kwwii> take a good look at it
<kwwii> indeed
<kwwii> zniavre: no murrine with a bit of pixmap
<knome> kwwii, i already did :P
<kwwii> anyway, time for beer, bbl
<zniavre> cheers
<vish> bah canoincal copied my idea for the metacity buttons ;/
<knome> ;)
<zniavre> my tooltips looks better than that
<zniavre> ...
<thorwil> troy_s: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand
<troy_s> thorwil: Oh good. They are into cows now.
<troy_s> thorwil: I can't say that I wouldn't give it a huge plus one for dumping that nasty fricking face amateurdom.
<troy_s> thorwil: But the dot to dot is ... well they should have maybe hired David Airey.
<troy_s> thorwil: Typeface is solid.
<troy_s> thorwil: It's tight.
<thorwil> troy_s: yes, mostly. very sharp/hard, though
<troy_s> thorwil: Naw. It's solid.
<zniavre> borderless?
<troy_s> thorwil: Very very very solid. The craptastic face is still in spread. That should be killed dead.
<troy_s> thorwil: Whoever designed that nasty face should never ever do anything again. Period.
<troy_s> thorwil: It's _exceptionally_ tight.
<troy_s> thorwil: Very tight. Can't say that the dot is all super though. It has an odd centre of gravity.
<knome> troy_s, lol
<knome> :P
<troy_s> thorwil: But that is but a blip. The forest is fantastic.
<troy_s> thorwil: Even if one tree is a little Charlie Brown.
<thorwil> troy_s: the logo-type surely conveys precision and engineering. great for the product. less so for the community
<troy_s> thorwil: Bah.
<troy_s> thorwil: It's good.
<troy_s> thorwil: It's a well formed face, and it is well executed.
<troy_s> Great adoption of Swiss big idea work with the Mark Twain quote.
<Equiet> Everything in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand is meant as final?
<troy_s> Not impressed at all with the CD mock cover... let's pray for some solid photography and not crap that we have had.
<thorwil> Equiet: no
<troy_s> And let's hope the wallpaper brings a little emotion. But on the whole... a solid 85% out of me.
<troy_s> I am impressed.
<thorwil> Equiet: if alone because there are 2 different logo-types in there
<troy_s> thorwil: So what?
<thorwil> troy_s: he asked if the stuff on the page is final ...
<troy_s> thorwil: You are aware that there are more than a few identity campaigns that are out of multi faces etc?
<Equiet> Uff, ok, then.
<troy_s> thorwil: But your hint that it isn't final doesn't really mean much would be my point. It is entirely possible that there are variations for the identity. See Nickleodeon or like matters.
<troy_s> Crap stale product of Asus etc. As a sort of forest through trees though, it is monumentally better.
<thorwil> troy_s: those key members mentioned on the top, i was supposed to be one of them
<thorwil> troy_s: on monday. bu the storm over europe got in the way. knome was there
<knome> o/
<troy_s> thorwil: Aw that's too bad.
<troy_s> It's solid work by and large. I'll need to digest a bit.
<troy_s> There are some glaring weaks: 1) Photography is borderline plastic rubbish. 1.1) CD / DVD cover would be indicative of uninspired, but again, that isn't a knock as it is purely a mock clearly. 2) Hope and pray that the fricking wallpaper can deliver some emotion.
<troy_s> Absolutely love the Big Idea approach. Very tight.
<troy_s> knome: How did it all shake down?
<troy_s> knome: Were you part of the discussion?
<knome> which discussion?
<knome> :P
<troy_s> knome: On the new identity campaign.
<knome> well, i was in london on monday
 * Equiet wonders why the purple was picked.
<troy_s> Equiet: Forest through trees Eq.
<knome> but we were pretty much just being shown the new stuff they had made
<troy_s> Equiet: I could probably cite at least 10 good reasons that it is a solid choice.
<knome> i'm just writing a blog post.
<troy_s> knome: Ah. So no discussion... just revelation.
<knome> yep, pretty much
<troy_s> Equiet: 1) It's unique. That's positive. 2) A little orange there maintains a little heritage. The orange is the anchor and the mauve is a triplet.
<knome> Aubergine ("purple") is not going to be the primary color for ubuntu
<knome> orange will be number 1
<Equiet> Well, for me, it's Mac OS X.
<troy_s> Equiet: So if you know anything about colour theory, the mauve pairs well with that degree of orange. There is likely a wide angle yellow in there too.
<knome> aubergine will be linked with canonical
<artir> but why did yhey switched the position of the buttons?
<troy_s> Equiet: I doubt it. Can't say that the connection is there.
<artir> because of fitt's law Â¿
<troy_s> artir: ? What do you mean?
<troy_s> artir: Bugger Fitts law. NOT relevant.
<vish> artir: what fitts law!
<artir> in the light theme, the buttons are at the left and now are at the right
<artir> the case
<Equiet> troy_s: The primary background of OS X is purple.
<knome> artir, that's probably just coincidence.
<artir> is that menues are at the top left of the windows
<troy_s> The windeco _is_ weak. I'll give you that.
<artir> so now the clickable places of the top of the window are at the left
<troy_s> artir: That is a sad myopic choice really. It has nothing to do with Fitts or otherwise. It's called shitty design.
<knome> artir, see my comment
<vish> artir: the buttons to left is just to copy OSX ;p
<troy_s> artir: The windeco is weak and the moving over to the left can't help but pull some association with OSX.
<vish> ha
<troy_s> Equiet: You are about a release behind. If you mean the Nebula mauve, you are talking something way speculative.
<troy_s> Equiet: Look at Snow Leopard's cover. Look at their site. They suffer from pretty clinical application of colour.
<troy_s> Equiet: As in _none_.
<artir> troy_s: i agree with that
<thorwil> it's an amazing color. everybody uses a different name :)
<artir> i instantly thought: mac?
<artir> and secondly: lots of users used to top right windows are going to go WTF?!
<artir> i hope that's not a default
<troy_s> artir: But to look at the clearly crap windeco as a pull down is just foolish. The overall positives VASTLY outweigh the negatives of that poopy crap decision by some ftard.
<troy_s> artir: Who cares?
<troy_s> artir: Who _really_ cares about Windows?
<vish> artir: if you want to be employed in Canonical you need to be a MAC fanboy first ;)
<troy_s> artir: Or OSX for that matter?
<Equiet> troy_s: And that's beacause purple is the first color that reminds me OS X, excepting white.
<artir> vish: most of the UX team have one
<artir> :P
<thorwil> artir: be really careful now. troy_s being happy and saying positive things, even being optimistic is a precious moment
<troy_s> Equiet: You'd be in a minority I'd guess. If you asked a general population as to what colour defines OSX, you might equally get blue thanks to that stale blue wallpaper they had or their default icons etc.
<artir> troy_s: I mean ubuntu users
<thorwil> artir: maybe you will be able to tell your grandchildren of this historic moment
<troy_s> artir: And that is unacceptable too.
<artir> we have the buttons at right
<artir> XD
<artir> comme on the theme is not awesome, but it's not that bad
<troy_s> artir: Let me say this loud and clear - Free Software is _not_ fundamentalist nor absolutist. It does not grant you the freedom to support companies that are in direct opposition to the movement.
<zniavre> artir,  +1
<Equiet> Also, I dislike that color. It was great for me only few months ago, but know I find it unmodern.
<troy_s> artir: When jimmac or hylke or _anyone_ uses an Apple product, they are not helping the movement. And even more realistically, they are clearly only half-hearted committed to the cause.
<Equiet> *s/know/now
<artir> troy_s: until ubuntu becomes the best OS ever, they will use whatever is best to design for ubuntu
<artir> linus thinks the same: use best tool for a task, even if it's privative
<artir> their use of macos is justified here
<troy_s> Equiet: Well that's another matter. I'd probably agree that our culture's agility regarding design really needs to amp up. It needs to be nebulous and mercurial and morph with the speed of thought. Leibniz bless his sould...
<troy_s> artir: THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
<artir> they will stop using it once ubuntu can do 100% of what they use mac for
<troy_s> artir: Look... if the culture actually USED the fricking tools full time, the GLARING holes would be fixed
<troy_s> artir: Worse, you are actually supporting a company that would, at all costs, drag down the very core of the ethic.
<troy_s> artir: So it is entirely possible that Linus is way off base.
<artir> troy_s: when did rms brainwashed you?
<troy_s> artir: Did you ever stop to wonder why Linux took the throne away from BSD?
<artir> because of GPL?
<troy_s> artir: Do the math. Don't be ignorant. If all we end up as is a dime store fricking cheap low rent version of Windows XP that has a free core and proprietary bits all over much like XP / Win 7 / OSX already is, _did we actually achieve anything_?
<troy_s> artir: It might be worth arguing that merit - yes.
<artir> in the end, i would like a 100% system
<artir> much as you do
<artir> but having privative stuff now helps tus OS to grow
<troy_s> artir: And if the very companies funding Free Software don't have the dedication to tell their employees to use it, what the hell is the point?
<artir> they do!
<artir> go ask kenvendine, tedg
<artir> or those people
<troy_s> artir: Think about this question: DO you think for even a brief fleeting moment that Steve Jobs would even _permit_ a Windows 7 box at Cupertino?
<artir> ask them why do they (or not) use macos
<troy_s> artir: That is a _new_ mandate for certain.
<troy_s> :)
<artir> obviously not
<troy_s> artir: Exactly.
<troy_s> artir: And we need _everyone_ to be as passionate as that. The fact that we don't have something should DRIVE the culture, not result in a bunch of half committed fools flipping over to their other boot partition.
<troy_s> artir: It is the _very_ reason that Keynote was created as legend has it.
<artir> i smell some blog discussion tomorrow :)
<troy_s> At any rate, it is a _helluva_ improvement.
<troy_s> I am sadly disappointed that the brown is gone however. It was _never_ executed properly and thrown out with the bathwater. It was always given a terrible execution and poor optics.
<artir> yeah, brown->orange->beige/violet
<artir> they could have done something better with it
<artir> canonical will ( i hope ) adjust the theme according to the reaction of the community
<knome> orange hasn't gone anywhere.
<artir> orange is still there as pure orange
<troy_s> artir: I hope they don't.
<artir> brown did
<troy_s> artir: I sincerely hope they ignore the culture of aesthetically bankrupt buffoonery.
<huayra> I have to say you all have done a fantastic job there!
<troy_s> artir: Stick to your guns. Play it out. Anyone with a shread of aesthetic analysis should be able to clearly see that there are _many_ more elements going the right way with the new direction as compared with the past.
<troy_s> huayra: I believe it is all closed doors at Canonical. kwwii could likely shed light on it.
<huayra> I am the driver of SpreadUbuntu and would publicly ask for better cooperation between our projects... Where this makes sense, of course.
<artir> troy_s: I agree with that affirmation even more than you
<troy_s> artir: But wow... you were right on the windeco. It's like... wow... please ... back to the sketch board. lol.
<artir> i hate when they do things secretly
<huayra> I have been contacted by Canonical to see what our project (SU) can do with this
<troy_s> artir: The problem isn't the secrecy.
<troy_s> artir: The issue is with a general aesthetic care that stops at age six or so and then gets really loud by 20something.
<huayra> artir, I agree, but I also have to admit that something are better kept off the public eye and within the people doing the work
<thorwil> huayra: great. the spreadubuntu/artwork disconnect is one of the things that has been bugging me
<artir> well, but periodic information on the project would be welcome
<huayra> *some things
<troy_s> artir: The ill-informed, clueless, and completely sad understanding of art and design in our collective culture has _bred_ aesthetic bankruptcy. We follow people with no training, no ability, and a delusional conception of aesthetics.
<troy_s> artir: Have a peek at GNOME 3's mocks.
<huayra> thorwil, I saw your email on the marketing list
<artir> which ones?
<troy_s> artir: There aren't that many.
<artir> gnome shell?
<artir> or topaz?
<huayra> it was never ment like that. I tried to approach the theme a while ago, but I might not have done it the right way
<artir> or the ones from the UX meeting?
<troy_s> artir: Yes.
<troy_s> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/log/?p=946
<thorwil> huayra: approached the theme?
<huayra> the team... sorry I am a bit tired here and it's getting late
<artir> the greeen toolbar, blue menues, angles tabs mockup
<artir> i.e.
<artir> ?
<huayra> but anyway. It could be very fruitful to see where our themes can cooperate
<thorwil> huayra: here, too, actually. lets talk another time :)
<huayra> and nonetheless invite the artwork team to use Spread Ubuntu
<artir> troy_s: and if they suck that much at doing design, why don't you propose a new theme?
<huayra> and we would of course be more than happy to make adaptations
<artir> i've read your blog posts
<artir> and you seem to understand desing
<troy_s> artir: Because 1) it isn't that simple. 2) it has so much hegemony that I could spend my time better elsewhere.
<huayra> +1 on artir's comment. I was impressed with your blog thorwil. You and MadsRH are the members in the community that I really respect when it comes to design
<troy_s> artir: I am but one fool. We need to all mature collectively to really push these types of rocks up the massive hills. I think we will get there from what I have seen of the community. I was far more skeptical a few years ago.
<thorwil> huayra: thank you!
<artir> the problem is that as far as things are right now, the new theme will come from the design team at canonical
<troy_s> artir: But at the same time, the blind fanboyism and such needs to be tempered with analysis. It's not easy. I don't think anyone with a clue would say it was.
<troy_s> artir: That's all good. I can live with that quite happily.
<huayra> artir, then we should try to get and cooperate with the Canonical team.
<artir> artwork team has tried to do that for a long long time :P
<artir> look at the breathe icon set
<artir> (i don't know if it's ready)
<knome> huayra, artir: the design team is pretty much open to work on the new branding with the community.
<artir> but it's better than humanity except for some minor inconsistencies
<knome> huayra, artir: just ping iainfarrell
<artir> he's here
<huayra> knome, I know. iainfarrell and I have had lots of contact lately. What I meant is that we should just get cooperating with the team
<vish> knome: you must be kidding right? " the design team is pretty much open to work on the new branding with the community."
<knome> vish, no, i am not.
<huayra> *we* as in the community
<knome> vish, that doesn't mean you will get any changes through which you propose.
<huayra> vish, he is not. I can testify that Canonical is very open to community input and even proactive in doing so
<knome> vish, they have a solid idea of the branding, and i think they are doing the exact correct thing not changing it when the first person dislikes it.
<huayra> in the SU case they wanted to talk to us. I felt really happy to hear from them :-)
<troy_s> huayra: Ask yourself this: What can the community possibly bring to the table?
<troy_s> huayra: Find me a _single_ member of the community that would be hired at a say, production assistant level at a large company for graphic design / artistic work?
<troy_s> huayra: Hate to sound brutally honest on that front, but I bet you can't find one.
<troy_s> huayra: Feel free to look at everyone.
<huayra> troy_s, what's your point then?
<huayra> the whole is greater than the sum of the parts
<knome> the community can bring things to the table, but those are for the community projects anyway, where community have more power.
<troy_s> huayra: Point is that when someone shows up that can actually bring tangible credibility to the table in some capacity, then perhaps that collaboration will happen.
<troy_s> huayra: The community is a huge strength and asset... absolutely. But practically speaking, you have just more or less suggested that you get community members to code for the kernel with no background / training / capability.
<huayra> every collaboration is important not in how you messure its professionality, but you meassure it in terms of human capital, time, love for something
<troy_s> huayra: Agree 100% with you. That 'emotional investment' is perhaps worth more than money.
<huayra> there are people that are not programmers that have contributed fantastic kernel code, yes
<troy_s> huayra: But the reality of the community bringing something to the table art / design / execution wise is ... low.
<huayra> troy_s: yes
<troy_s> huayra: Wow. You need to browse those GIT commit logs. ;)
<troy_s> huayra: Just not happening. Even talented coders get declined from the kernel. That's Linus' domain.
<huayra> I would say that the core team of every team boils down to 1-5% of everyone in the team
<troy_s> huayra: The term you are looking for is the Pareto principle.
<huayra> yes, I know troy_s
<NoobFukaire> Are the new themes going around available anywhere? the ones for lucid?
<NoobFukaire> they look dust based?
<troy_s> NoobFukaire: I suspect you will be waiting.
<huayra> I am talking experience here, my own in this community
<troy_s> NoobFukaire: It certainly has a lineage in Dust doesn't it? Aside from the windeco.
<NoobFukaire> yeah
<NoobFukaire> I'm not really crazy about it (although i really like dust)
<NoobFukaire> but I wanted to try it out
<huayra> but troy_s we know this. Can't we just try to make the best out of it and try to empower those contributors so their contribution has more impact even if it just happens once?
<troy_s> NoobFukaire: I strongly suspect that you will see changes on that front. Just a total guess.
<NoobFukaire> so those are probably mockups then?
<troy_s> huayra: Did I ever sound like I was trying to keep the community down? ;) You misread me possibly.
<huayra> the core team should work towards building the most effective collaboration platform possible in all the Ubuntu Community projects and teams
<troy_s> NoobFukaire: I don't think they are mocks entirely maybe... But the point is that you can expect some changes for certain.
<huayra> troy_s: I did not. I know where you stand. I am just trying to get you to jump in my wagon ;)
<troy_s> huayra: I'm likely already there. The real source of inspiration comes from the _new_ community. The 'old guard' has mangled things up almost beyond repair.
<huayra> NoobFukaire: many of them are mockups. You can certainly expect changes.
<thorwil> fun, but i have to, good night! :)
<huayra> troy_s, agree. As part of the old guard believeing in the ways of work of the _new_ community I am still here...
<huayra> This is too important to be given up because of lack of cooperation skills of a subset of the community
<troy_s> huayra: I'd be so bold as to say that a huge amount of progress can be made if those with little caring and attention to art and design just sat down in a corner and shut up.
<troy_s> huayra: I have changed my tune on that front a little - I used to be silent about it. But I can't stress it enough that it is rather like having a cluster of vocal people that can't code talking about Kernel issues.
<troy_s> huayra: That said, I still hope that we can get some degree of acceptance of cultural differences too. I'd love to see a thriving culture of art and design with unique and disparate cultural vantages. Could be pretty damn cool.
<troy_s> huayra: Instead though, we have blind usability polls talking about icons and rubbish.
<huayra> you make it sound elithistic, but I kind of agree: If you do not have a qualified voice (qualified here is your inner, logical, voice telling you that your opinions transcends the dialogue
<huayra> ) then do not say anything
<huayra> so troy_s where do you think that the Artwork team and Spread Ubuntu can work together? Besides, of course, beautifying the Spread Ubuntu site ebven more ;-)
<troy_s> huayra: I can't help but sound that way. I hate to sound that way. But I have watched too much rubbish peddled from too many clueless folks. I'm sorry.
<troy_s> huayra: I haven't followed spread ubuntu since the dark ages when Dan Buch tried to make it reality. I _really_ loved his vision to be honest.
<troy_s> huayra: I was saddened that no one else saw the huge strengths of it.
<troy_s> huayra: And doing websites stinks. I've been slaving away with four other folks on the new mythbuntu vision for far too long. It's hard when we are all only capable of splits and splurts.
<troy_s> huayra: where is the site currently?
<huayra> I have been trying to take over that work and that idea
<huayra> http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/
<huayra> It has a lot of room for improvement. I know. We are in 0.2 ;-)
<huayra> ish
<troy_s> huayra: Oops. You probably already know how I feel about that typeface (if you give it that much credibility... perhaps too much.)
<troy_s> huayra: Jump on the boat. Kick the old out! lol.
<huayra> the project is basically 3 people of which one is making the implementation codewise, the other is getting the community to notice and me doing the PR/Marketing/Political work of the site itself
<troy_s> huayra: If you want at least a starting point, I'd suggest you start with a publishing grid.
<huayra> the rest is contributions by Ubuntu users worldwide
<troy_s> huayra: Believe me... I know how undermanned everyone is. I appreciate that fully.
<huayra> all in all we might have had up to 100 different contributors
<huayra> maybe even more
<huayra> I would like the artwork team to use the site to showcase their newest designs and material
<huayra> and whatever adaptations we have to make to the site to make that happen would be made
<huayra> troy_s, a publishing grid.. can you ellaborate?
<alefteris> hi all! sorry if it's been asked before, but what's the font used in the new logo design?
<huayra> remember I work with sales and marketing, but I am by no means a designer
<troy_s> huayra: Hrm. Whenever you read a magazine or publishing, there is a secret code buried in it.
<Kangarooo> hello. who made design for new branding?
<troy_s> huayra: It can look entirely varied, but it is there. There is a sort of infrastructure behind it that you might not see initially.
<huayra> alefteris I have tried to extract that font from a source PDF I got, but it only had the "ubnt" chars...-
<troy_s> Kangarooo: If I had to bed, I'd say Dom had a huge influence on it.
<alefteris> huayra, but at the wiki page, the ubuntu qa seems to use the same font and for q and q chars
<alefteris> and a chars*
<huayra> alefteris, it's because they have access to the font. I have not. Taht's why the "spread ubuntu" logo uses the ubuntu-title font
<huayra> as well as the new one
<troy_s> huayra: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_layout
<troy_s> huayra: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_(page_layout)
<huayra> get it. BUt now you are thinking totally professionalized material
<huayra> Spread Ubuntu shows the street side of the Community
<troy_s> huayra: Not at all.
<huayra> where everyone can upload anything they have made
<troy_s> huayra: You are aware of Dan Buch's original idea that I helped him out with a bit?
<huayra> it's up to their own judgement
<huayra> I have analized all the ideas (there are at least 3 I know of before Evan and I took hand of this project)
<troy_s> huayra: It was playing into that _exactly_ notion. He took the idea that it was entirely DIY and I said "Push it further", so the actual original vision was to have a site that was sort of like a do-it-yourself store with tape and such on it.
<huayra> let me refresh my tired brain
<Kangarooo> troy_s: so Dom made it? or many designers made it? theres a project Ubuntu Drupal witch is ment as loco teams website and i would like if a theme as branding would be made for locos
<Kangarooo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-drupal-theme/+spec/karmic-ud-theme
<troy_s> huayra: There may even be a mock or two out there. But the point of a publishing grid should not be lost regardless - they work, they simplify, and they make it manageable.
<huayra> but that's what we have. We show you the material and give you the source (SVG/ODT) so you can play
<troy_s> Kangarooo: I suspect Dom had a bit of input on it. Pure speculation, but there are elements of his work in there.
<huayra> and upload it back if you want
<huayra> with strong emphasis in language features and easy access to the stuff... But, as I said, we need more brainpower into the project
<troy_s> Kangarooo: You can expect the default site to likely be very much already what you see there as a guess. Remember - I know NOTHING about all of this. I'd just bet that the primary touchpoint of the whole thing - ubuntu.com - will look much like those uh... mocks. ;)
<Kangarooo> ok so these designs are confirmed? if yes then loco teams websites would have to look similar. so Ubuntu Drupal if would have this theme made for locos with #ubuntu-artwork team then that would make more recognision as locos to ubuntu. i hope im making sense :)
<Kangarooo> it was long day for me with bug making in LP
<troy_s> Kangarooo: I would expect that you could run your loco as you wish.
<troy_s> Kangarooo: But I have no clue how the drupal etc theming would unfold.
<huayra> Kangarooo, I am asking the Ubuntu.copm webmaster if he has something he has been working in
<huayra> so the ubuntu.drupal team can have access to it and we do not have to reinvent the wheel
<Kangarooo> well 3 options i see now witch comes out of that of course loco can be run as each thinks it needs to be run. 1. dont change design. 2. each loco makes each new design. 3. Ubuntu Drupal theme is made and all locos use UD and new theme. only one theme for all
<knome> afaik, the design team is going to supply some kind of drupal theme for the loco's
<huayra> so all LoCo's can count on the ubuntu-drupal project to solve that issue. As usual
<huayra> that team is full of rock stars!
<knome> i think this time the theme would come directly from UX
<sanderqd> i hope the 3px window border at the bottom will get removed - the Appearance dialog isn't in balance at the bottom left right now
<troy_s> knome: I don't.
<troy_s> knome: They should let (if I suspect Dom) handle it. The windeco is appaling.
<zacbarton> i wonder how they plan to support the buttons on the left and right in the new theme as the buttons are joined
<troy_s> knome: Or even roll with Dust modified slightly. It is unique enough.
<troy_s> zacbarton: Simple metacity can do that.
<sanderqd> in 10.04 the window borders will be drawn by gtk+, so even more possibilities
<zacbarton> troy_s: ive had issues with Homosapien where the buttons are also joined
<zacbarton> using the same theme and switching the buttons (via gconf) breaks the theme
<zacbarton> i needed a theme for the left and a different one for the right
<knome> troy_s, i was talking about the drupal theme.
<vish> troy_s: who is Domonique edwards?, any earlier links work of his?
<zacbarton> also with windows that just ahve a close button. how will that look. using copiz i expect it wony look to good  - http://www.zacbarton.com/metacity_vs_compiz.png
<vish> *links/work
<troy_s> vish: He is on Behance.
<troy_s> vish: By far the most talented fellow on the design team from what I have seen in terms of aesthetics / execution.
<troy_s> zacbarton: It will get sorted. I can't see them keeping that nasty win deco. It's simply awful.
<zacbarton> troy_s: yea it will be interesting to see how they tackle the button left vs right problem (which i face with Homosapien also)
<zacbarton> i also noticed in the screenshots that there is no menu icon
<troy_s> zacbarton: What is the left right problem?
<troy_s> zacbarton: You mean getting them over to the left?
<zacbarton> another thing (im seeing a lot) is that the buttons in the screenshot appear in the same order as they would on the right (min,max,close) i suspect if the buttons were on the left but in close,max,min order the theme would be screwed
<troy_s> zacbarton: I wouldn't worry about it. Baby steps. Let's just hope Dust proper gets pushed and we can call it a general win.
<zacbarton> troy_s: not so much in moving theme but in how the theme would be drawn if moved. for eg the close button has a rounded right corner but if you want the close as the first button on the left the corner would need to be on the left
<zacbarton> troy_s: not so worried just interested to see how the overcome the problem :-)
<troy_s> zacbarton: There are more than enough coders at Canonical that could fix a minor detail like that in about two seconds flat. Some pretty damn brilliant and talented folks actually in the code department.
<sanderqd> zacbarton: there is a chance they built this theme using the new gtk+ client-side decoration
<zacbarton> sanderqd: then that could change things :-)
<troy_s> sanderqd: I'd bet not yet.
<troy_s> If I had to gamble, I'd say that in fact what you see is just a loose hack.
<troy_s> As in all GTK / Metacity.
<troy_s> Nothing special.
<troy_s> And if I also had to bet, I'd bet that the window decoration lasts maybe less than a few weeks.
<sanderqd> that's a good gamble, but there would be landing some client-side deco themes soon
<zacbarton> troy_s: no doubt there is. ill be watching to see what they do. maybe ill end up fixing a issue i have with Homosapien (without having to cde for buttons on left and buttons on right)
<zacbarton> id love to see how to fix it properly
<zacbarton> cde = code
<vish> troy_s: ha ,found him , had his spelling wrong ;)
<troy_s> vish: Yep.
<kwwii> hey troy_s
<troy_s> kwwii: Greets Ken.
<troy_s> kwwii: How are things?
<kwwii> how's things this evening?
<kwwii> hehe, good!
<kwwii> ivanka showed me your email ;)
<troy_s> kwwii: Rendering. Trying desperately to get it out.
<troy_s> kwwii: She deserves it.
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> troy_s: now you beleive me?
<kwwii> ;)
<troy_s> kwwii: She pushed a monumental rock up a hill that ... well let's say the hill doesn't like the idea I'm sure at first.
<troy_s> kwwii: Shup and fix that fricking windeco.
<kwwii> lol
<troy_s> kwwii: I had a hunch Dom's fingers are ALL over that.
<kwwii> we are building it in csd as well as normal metacity
<kwwii> lol, actually marcus and otto did the brand and font work
<troy_s> kwwii: Everything is extremely tight... glaring obvious oopsies are the assy looking plasticy monstrosity of a computer (aka the ongoing battle of nasty photography) and that fricking windeco.
<troy_s> kwwii: But small points really.
<kwwii> the font stuff is amazing ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<troy_s> kwwii: The emblem is ... something wrong there.
<kwwii> true
<kwwii> for lucid there are still a lot of changes coming in
<troy_s> kwwii: I just get the feeling that you all should have brought in a true specialist like David Airey.
<kwwii> but for lucid I doubt we will be able to fix everything as we would like
<troy_s> kwwii: The typeface is solid. The emblem is sort of ... just plain ... odd.
<kwwii> yeah
<troy_s> kwwii: Can't finger it, but it's there.
<troy_s> kwwii: And it really feels tacked on, which is probably a larger concern.
<kwwii> i think it was one of those pieces that we couldn't change
<kwwii> so it kinda came along as-is as best as possible
<troy_s> kwwii: As though a great deal of thought went into the face (who did it?) and not a lot into how to make that CoF fit.
<troy_s> kwwii: There isn't much wrong with the actual logo itself... just seems tacked onto the whole thing.
<troy_s> kwwii: But anyways, it's like bickering over the number of sesame seeds on the bun.
<kwwii> ;)
<troy_s> kwwii: Neither here nor there. Windeco needs help and love though. God please.
<kwwii> and it will become better, no worries
<kwwii> we honestly have long-term plans now ;)
<troy_s> kwwii: I'd guess as much. Crappers... even just a mod of dust.
<troy_s> kwwii: Good. That's positive.
<troy_s> kwwii: A huge step up on the splash too. That thing we are blessed with right now is ... ugh.
<troy_s> kwwii: When all else fails, gut it. lol.
<kwwii> lol
<troy_s> kwwii: The bulk of that presentation is Dom's work though on the web I'd guess. I can see the grid etc. It has obvious win.
<troy_s> kwwii: I only hope that whoever did the type didn't seriously come too close without paying due respect. If that is a copy of a face somewhere or too close, you can expect nothing short of a nightmare backlash.
<troy_s> kwwii: Hilarious Ivanka showed you the email.
<kwwii> troy_s: well, the team is closer than you would think
<troy_s> kwwii: Not at all.
<kwwii> we all just got back from the pub ;)
<troy_s> kwwii: That's a good thing.
<kwwii> and for my part, i am going to head down to the hotel bar and get another drink!
<troy_s> Lol.
<knome> kwwii, haha, congrats :P
<MTecknology> Kangarooo: hi
<Kangarooo> hi MTecknology
<bognarandras> hi! so... in lucid there is only one panel or the bottom panel is just hide on the new brand screenshots? (sorry for the bad english)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-04
<troy_s> bognarandras: There are now six panels.
<troy_s> bognarandras: They were clipped off
<bognarandras> :/
<wers> what's the name of the package for the new "light" gtk theme? :)
<LLStarks> what's the difference between a shaded checkbox and a checked checkbox?
<LLStarks> i see this on the software sources and chmod dialogs.
<persia> Anyone good at drawing diagrams and making .png and .pdf output have a few minutes to clean up a documentation bug about getting Ubuntu membership?
<troy_s> LLStarks: Possible but not all.
<troy_s> persia: Screenshot.
<persia> Basically, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership references a .png and .pdf in the "Procedure for Obtaining Membership", which ought be replaced with ones that remove "MOTU Council" and originate all the stuff previously originated from "MOTU Council" to "Developer Membership Board" (and I'm bad enough with the tools that it will take me hours).
<troy_s> persia: So s/MOTU Council/Developer Membership Board
<troy_s> persia: That's it?
<persia> troy_s: That's it: just combine the boxes.  MOTU Council looks like it's going away (two of the remaining three members have called for it to end), and DMB is doing that work now.
<troy_s> persia: Damn you... now you confused me - 'combine'?
<troy_s> persia: I see the MC box
<troy_s> persia: But it goes away? I don't see a Dev membership board.
 * persia reloads the .png
<troy_s> persia: I can nuke it relatively quickly.
<troy_s> persia: But combine, I'd need to know what to combine with.
<troy_s> ;)
<persia> OK.  LOoking at the PNG.  On the far right side, near the top, is "Ubuntu Developer Membership Board".
<persia> "MOTU Council (MC)" appears to the left of that, and slightly below.
<persia> Do you see both of those?
<troy_s> Yes... looking
<troy_s> persia: Sorry you got to ping me.
<troy_s> persia: Otherwise I am usually busy doing window flipping.
<troy_s> persia: Both in blue. See them both. What would you prefer sir?
<persia> That all the arrows that come from MC are moved to DMB, and that the MC box goes away.
<persia> Thanks a lot for fixing this :)
<troy_s> persia: No problem. Working on it.
<troy_s> All of MC and MC goes away totally persia, correcting now.
<persia> troy_s: For the purposes of getting membership, yes.
<persia> For this to change in the future, the MC would need to be essentially started from scratch, and be given new rights from the CC all over again (which is unlikely to happen for at least some time)
<troy_s> persia http://imagebin.ca/view/ok1iE-2Y.html
<troy_s> persia: That work?
<troy_s> persia: Or do you require more directionality in the flows?
<troy_s> persia: Which is an easy fix.
<vish> troy_s: pfff... show off ;)
<troy_s> vish: Bah... infographic
<troy_s> persia: http://imagebin.ca/view/8fYclkUB.html
<troy_s> persia: I will attach it to the wiki for you in both PNG and SVG formats. Deal?
<persia> troy_s: That looks great.  Thanks!  Please do attach to the wiki.
<troy_s> persia: There you go. Both are there.
<persia> (not only correct, but much better than the old one)
<troy_s> persia: It was a bit of a mess before, and considering the audience that likely wants to see it.
<troy_s> persia: Hopefully that makes it a little clearer.
<troy_s> persia: I'd include the map inline just for those that want to know.
<troy_s> persia: As I imagine membership spans a pretty large number of people.
<persia> Do you know how to do that?  I'm not that good with the wiki aside from text cahnges.
<troy_s> persia: Let me scale a version too... hold.
<persia> We're at 584 members today, but we've been up to 900 before, and I suspect there's another 500 that are currently thinking about applying.
<troy_s> persia: Ugh wiki is getting hammered or something.
<troy_s> persia: Wow... membership goes down???
<vish> persia: does the MOTU lead to the core team?
<troy_s> persia: Or are you talking strictly MOTU?
<troy_s> vish: I think I may have bogged that.
<troy_s> GRR
<persia> troy_s: Membership.  Not everyone stays a member (they sometimes get distracted by other things).
<troy_s> vish: Yep. Good spot. BOG.
<persia> Core leads to MOTU though.
 * persia double-checks
<vish> yay , i found a mistake in troy_s' work.. damn its not in the art though :/
<persia> Core Dev is a member of MOTU.  Both Core Dev and MOTU are members of Ubuntu Dev.  MOTU is a member of Universe Contributors
<troy_s> vish: Oh god no. There are plenty of those too.
<troy_s> vish: Believe me, when I say I can see crap it is largely because that is about all I am capable of.
<vish> ;p
<troy_s> persia: So MOTU can fork to the Ubuntu Development Team, not the Ubuntu Core Development Team.
<troy_s> persia: I fixed it methinks.
<troy_s> vish: Proof!
<persia> troy_s: Right.
<persia> troy_s: Well, not fork, but MOTU are implicitly members of Ubuntu Development Team.
<persia> Core Developers are implicitly members of *both* MOTU and Ubuntu Development Team.
<troy_s> http://imagebin.ca/view/3u7dM2Mu.html
<troy_s> THAT is correct correct?
<troy_s> Erk. That might need a back forth arrow then correct?
<troy_s> persia: the original map needed some more attention then... technically core points to motu and dev team then?
<troy_s> (wow, this is worse than parliment.)
<troy_s> Craps...
<troy_s> persia: So yes?
<troy_s> Core points at DEV TEAM _and_ MOTU
<troy_s> Correct?
<vish> troy_s: need to add an arrow from core to motu , that should be it
<persia> RIght.
<troy_s> http://imagebin.ca/view/19oxYn.html
<troy_s> Proof?
<troy_s> vish: correct?
<troy_s> Pretty funky monkey down there in MOTU ville. Lol.
<vish> troy_s: seems good
<persia> Yeah.  At some point we'll get the development teams sorted :)
<persia> But there's a distinction that's being lost here.
<persia> The "Ubuntu Members", "Kubuntu Members", "Ubuntu Universe Contributors", "Ubuntu Development Team", "Masters of the Universe", and "Ubuntu Core Development Team" are teams.
<persia> "Kubuntu Council", "Edubuntu Council", "Developer Membership Board", and the regional boards are councils that approve teams.
<vish> troy_s: the Ubuntu DM Board needs to have color too
<persia> In the old diagram, the former set were ovals, and the latter set were rectangles.
<troy_s> Balls.
<troy_s> Ok hold.
<persia> Ah, the red:/blue distinction.  That makes sense.
<troy_s> I just noticed that as I am making them the Ubuntu aubergine now.
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<troy_s> That look right?
<troy_s> persia / vish?
<persia> It looks right to me.
<troy_s> persia: Ok if there is a wiki admin freakout over the page changes, you can deal with it.
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> persia: Your cred trumps mine by a major margin.
<persia> The only thing I might do differently is to make the entire team names red or blue, but that's not terribly important.
<troy_s> persia: Ok hold...
<troy_s> persia: So What teams?
<persia> troy_s: Absolutely.  If you get any complaints, point them at me.
<persia> All of them :)
<troy_s> persia: Dev Team, Core Team, ???
<troy_s> persia: No what set should be grouped?
<troy_s> persia: You want what elements grouped?
<persia> No.  The sets and elements are all correct.
<troy_s> persia: But you want the Dev team to be different than say Core Development Team color?
<persia> And the teams are well differentiated from councils/boards.
<persia> No.
<troy_s> persia: LOL. Ok I'll stop talking.
<persia> For example, "Kubuntu Members" has one colour for "Kubuntu" and another for "Members".
<persia> But like I said, it's very minor.
<troy_s> persia: Ok so what ones would that apply to?
<troy_s> persia: Kubuntu, Edubuntu, and???
<persia> Every box :)
<vish> persia: troy_s: the K/E/Ubuntu color could remain , but we can add a bit of color to the other MOTU/teams
<troy_s> persia: Balls. Last time I checked there wasn't a standards guide for MOTU. None of them have palettes :)
<persia> Every box represents a group in launchpad.  The lighter-grey groups have admin rights over the darker-gray groups.
<persia> troy_s: Really don't worry about it.
<persia> Oh, I did notice something (which makes it complicated).
<troy_s> persia: So MOTU and CORE DEV has admins over Dev and Contrib?
<troy_s> persia: Ok shoot.
<persia> "Ubuntu Developer Membership Board" has admin over all four of "Ubuntu Universe Contributors", "Ubuntu Development team", "Masters of the Universe", and "Ubuntu Core Development Team".
<persia> No, MOTU and CoreDev are members of UUC and UbuntuDev
<persia> (as teams, so members in MOTU are implicit members of UUC, for example).
<troy_s> persia: Herm... so you want to show admin rights by Dev Membership board over the four under it (in this case above)
<persia> Please :)  And thanks for putting up with my inability to express myself.
<troy_s> persia: It's ok... might require a little more thought though now adding the extra dimension... Those fricking arrows were uh... not good enuf.
<troy_s> persia: So Ubuntu Developer membership board technically cascades into MOTU as well even though it only shows as going into Core Dev Team?
<persia> Right.  This recently changed (in the past couple months).
<persia> The DMB was given admin rights to MOTU and UUC (which were previously held by MOTU Council), and to Ubuntu-dev and Ubuntu-core-dev (which were previously held by the TB).
<troy_s> persia: Ok, so apologies to not be too redundant - but DEV BOARD governs ALL FOUR under it. MOTU and CORE DEV govern only Contrib and Dev Team respectively?
<persia> Almost.
<troy_s> persia: ALMOST?
<persia> DEV BOARD governs all four under it.
<troy_s> Yes.
<persia> MOTU and CORE DEV don't govern anything.
<troy_s> persia: MOTU covers Contrib no?
<persia> MOTU is a member of Contrib and Development TEam
<troy_s> as does Core Dev over Dev team?
<troy_s> Wow.
<persia> CORE DEV is a member of MOTU and Development team
<troy_s> Ok
<persia> "Kubuntu Members", "Edubuntu Members", "Ubuntu Universe Contributors", "Ubuntu Development Team" are members of Ubuntu members.
<troy_s> OK ... I think I got my head around it.
<persia> The Regional boards are admins of Ubuntu Members.
<wers> is the new theme up for download yet? :)
<troy_s> What a mess. It's worse than a fricking government system in some strange third world nation.
<troy_s> wers: Um... why?
<persia> troy_s: Yeah.  Now that you've made me go through all the permutations, I think I'll try to get it sorted.
<troy_s> wers: It really is the weakest link in all of the new identity work.
<troy_s> persia: LOL
<persia> All the many different development teams should just be members of *one* membership team.
<wers> troy_s, i wanna try it
<troy_s> persia: I am trying to visualize it as overlapping bits... arrows indicate flow which isn't quite right really.
<troy_s> persia: I think I have a handle on it.
<persia> wers: If you mean "adium-theme-ubuntu", the package just got past NEW in LP, and should show up on mirrors soon.  You can pull it straight from LP if you're in a hurry.
<wers> persia, cool. is it the package for the "light" theme?
<persia> I have no idea.  I just know it's a new theme.  I'm not in a hurry.
<persia> I also know it will be installed by default (but I don't know if it will be selected by default)
<wers> persia, oh. apparently, the theme depends on the adium-theme-ubuntu package
<wers> i still don't know the package for the light theme, though...
<persia> neither I.  I'm just guessing based on the metainformation in the ubuntu-artwork package.
<wers> ooh. maybe
<wers> persia, i think, you're right. http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/all/ubuntu-artwork
<vish> wers: the adium theme is for empathy iirc
<wers> vish, yep. and ubuntu-artwork depends on it. without adium-theme, we wont get the package with the "light" theme
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adium-theme-ubuntu is more interesting
<persia> (packages.ubuntu.com is often out of date)
<wers> persia, cool! installing now. let's see :D
<wers> now installing ubuntu-artwork from lucid! high five persia !
<wers> now, where's the new theme? hmm
<vish> wers: hehe , no theme , just the logo ;p
<wers> vish, aw. haha. where can i even see the logo?
<vish> wers: the theme ,will be in a separate package , if it replaces human
<vish> wers: /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/distributor-logo.png
<wers> vish, okay... let's wait for the package then. it's probably going to be light-theme-ubuntu
<wers> vish, yeah, but where will it show? gnome hides icons
<wers> on menus, i mean
<vish> wers: about ubuntu in the help
<vish> rather in the documentation
<troy_s> persia: I need to think on it. NOT an easy infographic to provide a solution for with the double back nature of the dev team in areas.
<vish> the font there hasnt changed yet
<wers> hasnt changed here..
<vish> wers: the logo has
<persia> troy_s: No worries.  Thanks a lot for digging into this.  I'll try to fix the dev team stuff, but it will take months to go through all the right approvals.
<troy_s> persia: Lol. Fix it in the name of infographics. We don't want fish swimming upstream and downstream.
<wers> i cant see it.. actually, even my distributor-logo hasnt changed. oh well
<persia> troy_s: I'd just like something simple enough to fit in one's head :)  The intertwined nature now is just confusing and broken.
<troy_s> persia: Yes... the overlaps are totally fine until you get into dev team , core dev, motu and contrib
<troy_s> the double fork out of motu and core dev really ... make a mess of it.
<persia> Yeah.  I have to think a bit about the right structure, but I think there's a way it *can* make sense.
<persia> But that page doesn't even have "Ubuntu Desktop Developers", "Kubuntu Developers", "Mythbuntu Developers", "Ububntu Kernel Developers", or "Ubuntu CLI/Mono Developers", which only make things messier.
<persia> So really, what is needed, is some sensible model that doesn't push far too much information at the user.
<troy_s> Amen persia, amen.
 * persia sends mail to various boards and groups responsible for the mess
<persia> troy_s: Shall I revert the wiki change pending your deeper thought?
<troy_s> persia: Well I think it works ok for now... we just need to figure out how the hell to get the additional information in there.
<troy_s> persia: It's a hack.
<persia> troy_s: There are still links to the *old* .png and .pdf files.  Do you want to remove those?
<troy_s> persia: You could point to the new PNG and remove the PDF. It at least has updated info.
<troy_s> persia: Generating a PDF isn't terribly difficult, but maybe we leave that until we have a better map.
<persia> OK, and I think I'll try to hide the current map behind the graphics link until we fix it.
<troy_s> persia: Sure.
 * persia tries to make the wiki follow instructions
<zniavre> i can't make tooltips as this new light theme (it uses new-tooltip-style ?)
<thorwil> "Another point is that purple looks nice, but it is not a professional color at all. Sadly blues and grays are often considered more professional looking."--why do i even bother to check the forum?
<knome> hehe
<Cedric25> no new sound theme ?
<MenZa> Any SVGs out for the new branding yet?
<thorwil> MenZa: for all i know, no
<MenZa> right
<MenZa> I attempted to vectorise them in Inkscape, but I'm going to wait. The product wasn't as shibby as it should have been, even with a bit of tweaking.
<thorwil> either it has to go on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official, or that page has to be killed
<zniavre> what is csd ?
<sanderqd> if anyone sees ivanka majic, could you tell her the link to https://wiki.canonical.com/BrandRefresh/Announce is not public?
<iainfarrell> hi sanderqd
<iainfarrell> what was she trying to share is this on her blog?
<sanderqd> iainfarrell: yes, http://www.ivankamajic.com/?p=271
<iainfarrell> ahh I see
<iainfarrell> will let her know
<iainfarrell> thanks for the heads up
<sanderqd> cool, thanks, also congrats on the release
<iainfarrell> thanks :)
<iainfarrell> we're all very excited
<lasseguls> hi guys whats up. Someone has to fix the screenshots with the close minimize buttons on the wrong side, the internet is spazzing out.
<lasseguls> gj btw
<sanderqd> iainfarrell: would be cool to read more about the new branding's background, i hope to learn something fundamental about design in these open source communities ;-)
<iainfarrell> well in the meantime if you have any questions ping them our way
<iainfarrell> we will respond on blogs or IRC :)
<sanderqd> will do, thanks
<iainfarrell> Although it's artwork freeze today
<zniavre> lasseguls,  :o)
<iainfarrell> so we might not be quick to come back ;)
<lasseguls> i am right that this is just kwwii's personal prefrences right?
<zniavre> also mine i never seen kwwii desktop
<iainfarrell> what do you mean?
<lasseguls> the close minimize maximize buttons on the left hand side
<zniavre> osx layout of metacity buttons
<iainfarrell> That's what we're proposing, it's not the same as OSX though
<zniavre> or non-windows layout ...
<lasseguls> wow, its not osx layout
<lasseguls> u are actually proposing that? i thought it was just kenneths desktop, i remember him having it like that
<lasseguls> then im wondering, whats the thoughts behind that?
<iainfarrell> we're genuinely proposing it, we feel it works
<lucazade> and the bottom panel? just wondering?
<iainfarrell> bottom panel is hidden rather than shown the whole time, with that we're thinking that it removes items that people may not use a lot of the time so it's there when they need it but not when they don't
<lucazade> ok thanks
<zniavre> if there is a revolution in this theme its funny it's just the buttons layout
<lasseguls> i agree with that decision, smart
<iainfarrell> these are all things that users can adjust if they don't like it - unlike many other OSes out there ;)
<lucazade> yes of course
<zniavre> that s true
<thorwil> now i'm disappointed
<lasseguls> iainfarrell: yeah but you still have a huge responsibility of making the default experienced as good as possible
<iainfarrell> but we really think this adds and that's why we're including it
<iainfarrell> we do
<iainfarrell> and as good as possible for new users
<iainfarrell> so we're trying to make it attractive and simplify the desktop a bit
<lasseguls> but wont the button placement just confuse both windows, mac and ubutnu users?
<iainfarrell> We don't think so but we are user testing so we'll find out
<iainfarrell> it's clearly labeled though and a different colour so we think pretty obvious
<zniavre> im using this layout since breezy
<lasseguls> iainfarrell: cool. reddit, ubuntuforums, and digg doesnt seem to appriciate it though.
<lasseguls> but why not the close button in the corner, like osx?
<thorwil> lasseguls: folks at all those places never appreciate what they do not understand. saying this independent of whether this layout is good or not :)
<zniavre> think different ...
<lasseguls> thorwil: yeah, ive been around long enough to get that :)
<iainfarrell> I don't know, I manage the team rather than work on all the designs and I wasn't sure to start with but I've not experienced any niggles and I like ti
<darkmatter> close should be in a corner, or more precisely. the corner opposite the min/max. it prevents accidental closure of a window
<thorwil> iainfarrell: are you doing any eye and/or pointer tracking?
<darkmatter> it may involve more mouse travel, but it avoids accidents
<lasseguls> like the web designers say, the sites the users mostly browse is: not yours. Dont give them something unexpected if you dont have a real good reason for doing that.
<iainfarrell> it depends where we do the testing
<iainfarrell> we have access to that setup
<iainfarrell> but we'll be sharing research over time too
<iainfarrell> we had the hackfest here last week
<lasseguls> darkmatter brings up a good point. the standard placement is usually pretty alone, which prevents accidentally clicking min/max/close.
<iainfarrell> and we'll be doing a bunch more testing like the empathy testing
<lasseguls> empathy work <3
<lasseguls> gj
<iainfarrell> you think it needs a bit of love? ;)
<thorwil> iainfarrell: some claim people would look on the left side more, or the cursor would be in that area more often. would be great to have data for all out to see
<sanderqd> lasseguls: ubuntu is the 3rd most used desktop OS, it can has its own interaction standards, does not have to abide to the same principles as 'small web sites'
<lasseguls> iainfarrell: no, i mean the user testing u did etc was great!
<iainfarrell> oh I see
<iainfarrell> cool
<iainfarrell> glad you liked it
<lasseguls> sanderqd: the point still stands, if you change something, be sure to have a reason why. this rule also applies to BIG websites like MS etc.
<sanderqd> the web is one platform, the ubuntu desktop is another. but sure, i believe there are good reasons for these changes
<lasseguls> sanderqd: i agree that its different. But i still wonder what that reason is.
<thorwil> sanderqd: wen and desktop being separate platforms sure explains why some users double-click on web links ;)
<thorwil> web and desktop, even
<darkmatter> brand/marketing. ubuntu want's to feel less like elephant droppings
<iainfarrell> the Ayatana mailing list is the place to pose those questions
<sanderqd> lasseguls: thinking about it, it seems quite logical to have the X next to the window/app title (since that's what you close), and the max/minimize buttons more close to the window corner, like the resize handle is
<thorwil> iainfarrell: i think by now nobody really knows what does and doesn't belong on the ayatana list
<thorwil> i mean, the purpose and scope doesn't seem clear to me at all
<thorwil> i vaguely recall that Mark proposed having a closed list, the noise settled down ...
<iainfarrell> thorwil: I think questions about the new desktop should be exactly that place
<iainfarrell> or come to blogs like Ivanka
<iainfarrell> or find us on Twitter
<iainfarrell> or here :)
<andreasn> iainfarrell, does Ivanka do irc? I need to get hold of her
<iainfarrell> yeah
<thorwil> Ivanka is clever for staying out of here, i suppose
<iainfarrell> like I said, we're a bit busy with the artwork freeze
<andreasn> regarding a hackergotchi
<iainfarrell> no, want to be signed in but this week has been very very busy :)
<andreasn> I'll send her a e-mail
<iainfarrell> :)
<lasseguls> iainfarrell: but doesnt that mean that the decision of where to place the close min max buttons have to be done before the freeze?
<lasseguls> hi andreasn long time no see.
<andreasn> heya lasseguls! All well?
<iainfarrell> yes but you can still discuss it
<iainfarrell> I would imagine it would stay in given it's easy enough to change
<lasseguls> iainfarrell: its a gconf key? gconf isnt for human beings ;)
<iainfarrell> fair enough, although we still think that a lot of users will like it like this
<sanderqd> it's also easy to write a small program that does the gconf change, there already seem to be tweakUI-like apps
<lasseguls> yeah, im not saying that power users will have problems getting around it, they probably change themes anyway
<sanderqd> non-power users probably don't even bother thinking about it
<sanderqd> "oh, it's on the other side, that's new, ah well"
<lasseguls> sanderqd: :P thats not my experience of regular users
<lasseguls> "you are saying that internet is no longer a blue E? WTF has the world become!?"
<lasseguls> but one point id like to make is that this is a pretty big change, and can be hard to go back on if it turns out it was a mistake
<lasseguls> you cant change the placement of window controls every release.
<darkmatter> [ x ]<Caption>[ _ ] [ ^ ] <-- that's what I meant by avoiding accidental closure
<darkmatter> it sensible, it's been used for ages, and it's a *nix tradition
<lasseguls> too bad i dont have a virtual machine here, i would like to test it a bit. but from looking at the screenshots i get the feeling that aesthetically it is unbalanced with the buttons on the left side.
<sanderqd> lasseguls: it isn't available for testing yet anyway
<lasseguls> and OSX is a different beast entirely when it comes to balance since they dont have the file edit etc. menu.
<lasseguls> sanderqd: yeh, but u can still change the gconf ;)
<sanderqd> lasseguls: ALT-F2, gconftool-2 -t str -s /apps/metacity/general/button_layout maximize,minimize,close:
<sanderqd> to revert, gconftool-2 -t str -s /apps/metacity/general/button_layout menu:minimize,maximize,close
<darkmatter> the only thing that really 'unbalances' it per se is the title should be more or less centered
<lasseguls> sanderqd: thank you, but alt-f2 doesnt do anything in windows ^^
<lasseguls> darkmatter: you are right, the upper left corner is really cluttered, maybe it would help with the window tile centered.
<lasseguls> *title
<darkmatter> overall the theme itself isn't bad. it's a nice refresh, but it could use a little refinement. one sec. I actually found a mockup based on the new metacity
<lasseguls> the palette i really like.
<darkmatter> this has nothing to do with button layouts nor my personally opinions on the theme itself, just regarding 'refinement': http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/062/f/a/Ubuntu_lucid_theme_improvement_by_Scnd101.png
<lasseguls> that was quick
<darkmatter> as if you look at the official state of the theme, the gradients in the button are + the lighting is kinda harsh/unfinished feeling
<darkmatter> lasseguls: it's not mine. I just thought it was a nice 'update' to the overall look
<lasseguls> darkmatter: i agree. this one is softer, yeat clearer.
<lasseguls> *yet
<lasseguls> that guy is good. lots of nice mockups
<darkmatter> lasseguls: yeah. I'm not saying 'copy his work'. I'm just using it as a visual comparison as to how the official feels a bit harsh/rushed. like I said. overall its a decent theme. it just needs refining
<Cedric25> no new sound theme ?
 * darkmatter proposes a 451 CobraJet being throttled as the new login sound :O
<lasseguls> just saw that the rounded corners look pixellated. i think ive seen lots of metacity-themes doing that correctly, among them homosapien
<zniavre> wich is the panel icons theme in those new themes ?
<lasseguls> zniavre: i would guess humanity?
<zniavre> volume and messaging menu are not like that
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/45183/screenshot_F7vM2t.png
<dashua> Sexxy
<Agafonov> Hi! Can you tell me what font is used in new ubuntu logo? I found Sone very similar but not exactly :(
<persia> I believe it to be a special font, based on traffic in -motu from about 18 hous ago.
<Agafonov> will it be free for use?
<knome> it will have the same license as the current one
<knome> it's not released yet
<knome> and will not be released in th following days, at least completely, since it's not ready
<Agafonov> can we contact our russian designers (if we found one) to contribute cyrillic support as soon as possible?
<knome> Agafonov, you should be in touch with iainfarrell about that
<Agafonov> iainfarrell: what can you say?
<knome> bbl
<iainfarrell> hi there
<iainfarrell> sorry
<iainfarrell> haven't been watching the conversation
<thorwil> iainfarrell: question was about the logo font
<Agafonov> iainfarrell: can we contact our russian designers (if we found one) to contribute cyrillic support to the new ubuntu font as soon as possible?
<iainfarrell> we're actually developing cyrillic as part of the font development
<iainfarrell> so it is coming
<Agafonov> great!
<iainfarrell> we'll have a full roman, greek and cyrillic by around October
<Agafonov> :)
<iainfarrell> watch this space :)_
<thorwil> iainfarrell: buiding an entire font to match the logo-type seems odd to me, as i would think it should remain special. will there be a different weight, accompanying italic, narrow, etc.?
<persia> iainfarrell: How about support for more complex characters (mostly east & south asian)?
<iainfarrell> the idea with more complex characters and languages
<iainfarrell> is that we will work with community designers/ young designers who are interested
<iainfarrell> and try and get them to work with our design agency
<persia> Makes sense.
<islington> I see no mention of kubuntu on the wiki page?
<iainfarrell> we're working with Jonathan Riddell and the Kubuntu council on updating the logo for them
<iainfarrell> but we're encouraging them to retain their distintivness
<iainfarrell> the themes for KDE are so different to ours
<iainfarrell> and people choose a different window manager for a reason
<iainfarrell> so we're not going to try and impose our vision on Xubuntu/ Kubuntu
<iainfarrell> Edubuntu uses a lot of the main Ubuntu assets anyway so will remain largely the same
<Agafonov> iainfarrell: so, you will prpbably deny help offers for cyrillic font part? Just looking for a way to speedup the process...
<iainfarrell> Agafonov: thanks for the offer but for now as we're engaged with people and they're not set up to work with a community we'll probably wait
<iainfarrell> it's a very expensive and lengthy process
<iainfarrell> and to introduce extra people now
<iainfarrell> would slow it down in the long term
<iainfarrell> although I should stress
<iainfarrell> we don't want to rush the font development
<iainfarrell> we want a type face we can be proud of and love looking at for years to come
<islington> thats good, personally I think kubuntu should develop a branding like opensuse did.
<Agafonov> iainfarrell: anyway, thanks for information. we will wait for it ;)
<iainfarrell> Agafonov: my pleasure
<lasseguls> iainfarrell: whats the plan with the icons? From the screenshot, the icons are really the only part of the desktop that is orange. Is this the look you are going for, or just a remenant of the old?
<knome> btw iainfarrell, sent you email earlier today. have you had a chance to read it?
<islington> lol posted that to flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/47414073@N07/4405828245/in/pool-ubuntu-artwork
<iainfarrell> hey knome I've not had a chance yet, I'll come back to you :)
<iainfarrell> lasseguls: We're keeping the icons for now, keep an eye on the panel though ;)
<lasseguls> iainfarrell: i wont look away
<lasseguls> ever
<iainfarrell> LOL
<iainfarrell> knome: Thanks for the mail, I'll need to review with the guys and come back to you but it's artwork freeze day today
<iainfarrell> so everyone's pretty stacked
<iainfarrell> can I get back to you tomorrow?
<knome> iainfarrell, sure
<tgpraveen12> hello is the new light theme now available in lucid?
<dashua> zniavre_, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/45196/screenshot_Xqri99.png
<dashua> Nice tooltips
<knome> hey dashua :)
<dashua> knome, Hey mate
<dashua> Sup?
<zniavre_> dashua,  wich tooltips are you using ? new-tooltip-stylr ?
<zniavre_> style *
<dashua> Yep
<knome> working to get the new branding to xubuntu as well ;)
<zniavre_> when i tried it it does not make a border
<zniavre_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/187396/tooltipstyle.png
<dashua> Did you enable RGBA globally?
<zniavre_> yes
<dashua> In your gtkrc
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/45197/screenshot_1_y5Wr11.png
<dashua> Not sure
<dashua> knome, Awesome
<dashua> I think I'm done with the community-themes work.  Shearwater will be next.
<knome> yay :)
<zniavre_> dashua,  i do not understand why it does not follow bg/fg i want
<zniavre_> old tooltips does
<dashua> It takes your bg_color?
<zniavre_> maybe
<dashua> It appears so.
<zniavre_> http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5498/capture2eo.png
<zniavre_> do you see it ? i asked for strange color but it does not follow this
<zniavre_> http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3989/capture1dj.png   > i still prefer this one
 * snubby tips hat
<snubby> sup ubuntu artworkers
<knome> http://content.comicskingdom.net/Arctic/Arctic.20100304_small.gif
<knome> reminds me of artists
<toabctl> hi
<knome> hello.
<toabctl> does anybody know how to install the new light theme? i use lucid but there's no new theme in the repository (and sorry if i'm the 10000x person who ask this;))
<knome> toabctl, i suppose you still have to wait a bit
<dashua> zniavre,
<dashua> I got it.
<dashua> style "tooltips"
<dashua> {
<dashua> 	xthickness = 8
<dashua>  	ythickness = 4
<dashua>  
<dashua> 	GtkWidget::new-tooltip-style = 1
<dashua>  	bg[NORMAL] = @tooltip_bg_color
<dashua>  	fg[NORMAL] = @tooltip_fg_color
<dashua> }
<knome> "oops" :)
<dashua> Now it honors your tooltip color
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/45228/screenshot_7IIAkv.png
<dashua> Blur and all :)
<zniavre> :o(
<zniavre> something must goes wrong for me
<vish> dashua: how did you set blur? i dont get blur here
<dashua> Compiz
<dashua> Add tooltips
<vish> ;)
<dashua> under name
<vish> dashua: i thought it was in  murrine ;)
<vish> dashua: you set it via the blur plugin right?
<vish> hmm , the blur plugin craps out under KMS for me :(
<zniavre> haaaaa ok
<zniavre> dashua, can you set the border_color  ?
<vish> zniavre: bg[SELECTED]
<zniavre> ho yes !!
<zniavre> strange it does not works on metacity right?
<zniavre> on close/max/min buttons
<vish> also in firefox
<zniavre> haaaaaaaa
<zniavre> ok
<zniavre> thank you
<zniavre> :o)
<zniavre> dinner time see you later
<dashua> zniavre, matacity no
<zniavre> dashua,  sometime it's bit too transparent depent where it falls
<zniavre> there is a way to set translucidy ?
<dashua> Not unless you hack GTK, I don't think
<zniavre> ok it's what i was thinking (as murrine rgba)
<zniavre> ho i understand tooltips are much more transparent with rgba-ised applicatiob
<zniavre> cation*
<zniavre> http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9851/screenshot4pq.png
<thorwil> it has begun: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/LucidCountdownBanners
<knome> thorwil, i'm anxiously waiting for your designs.
<thorwil> knome: maybe i won't do one
<knome> thorwil, woT? :)
<thorwil> knome: it's sad nobody else ever goes beyond counting down (well, there was a calender as somewhat of an exception)
<knome> mmh
<vish>  *sigh*  Bug 532110
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532110 in hundredpapercuts "The corners from the new Ubuntu theme have been serrated." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532110
<troy_s> thorwil: HILARIOUS
<troy_s> thorwil: Someone posted a thing about audience on Marks blog
<troy_s> thorwil: And guess what? It got removed.
<thorwil> troy_s: what did that "thing" say?
<troy_s> thorwil: It was a polite question. Can't remember exactly.
<troy_s> thorwil: Pertaining to the ignorance factor... and poof.
<troy_s> lol
<thorwil> troy_s: "... to a design sprint, to test that the concept had the legs to work with the full range of ..."
<troy_s> thorwil: ?
<thorwil> troy_s: from monday to wednesday, it would clearly have been an option to find that it had no legs
<troy_s> Well I applaud the fact that there is a willingness to at least try things.
<thorwil> troy_s: "testing" under conditions that do not allow it to be found lacking
<thorwil> i love that
<thorwil> the dimensions concept ain't bad
<troy_s> thorwil: The net sum effort, whatever the opinion, could be justifiably be called 'better' if you do a before and after comparison. I just worry a little that people have equated with the walking away from brown as being the lynch pin as to why Ubuntu was stinky.
<thorwil> yeah
<troy_s> thorwil: When, in truth, we don't exactly see much different landing where it counts - on the desktop. Is that a lens flare? Not quite. What exactly is that?
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> thorwil: That's about my only sort of alarm issue - the core issues that led up to the culmination of what we saw before are similar.
<troy_s> thorwil: I mean it is also grossly unfair to lump developer / user on a polarized scale (how many contributors are uptakers as well?)
<troy_s> thorwil: Or for that matter, jamming all Enterprise under one roof. There has got to be a huge diverse breadth of enterprise there, no?
<thorwil> troy_s: a single font for the logos and use in the interface?
<troy_s> thorwil: Yeah that screams nightmare.
<troy_s> lol
<thorwil> troy_s: i was hoping it would a logo-type and a font that works well with it, but is not identical
<thorwil> kwwii: ^
<troy_s> thorwil: Inexperience? I mean it isn't like there is anyone around here that has built huge brands, but even a dimwit with a book knows that.
<thorwil> troy_s: inexperience is ok. ignorance not
<troy_s> thorwil: It's like suggesting that Apple smatter Chicago all over.
<troy_s> thorwil: Which didn't happen.
<thorwil> troy_s: have to go, cya!
<kwwii> there is going to be a font family, not just a font: so one for the desktop, a related yet different one(s) for other uses
<kwwii> naturally ;)
<kwwii> hi psyke83
<troy_s> kwwii: So Ubuntu Sans, Ubuntu Serif, Ubuntu Title Case etc?
<kwwii> thanks for the tip ;)
<psyke83> hey
<kwwii> troy_s: right
<kwwii> a Sans condensed for the desktop, etc
<kwwii> sometime during the night there is an update and all the new artwork will be public
<kwwii> today was alpha freeze
<kwwii> so everyone can follow the development more closely, help us fix bugs and improve it
<psyke83> nice
<kwwii> oh, and the themes are named Ambiance and Radiance
<troy_s> kwwii: Default chosen yet?
<kwwii> troy_s: Ambiance (the one with the dark top is currently marks favorite)
<troy_s> kwwii: Thank god.
<troy_s> kwwii: *cough* windeco
<troy_s> kwwii: The new logotype is pretty lovely.
<kwwii> the curving of the N and A is simply amazing
<troy_s> kwwii: If I had to pick one thing that is most impressive, its that type.
<kwwii> naturally, the desktop font doesn't have much of that
<troy_s> kwwii: No. Have you seen it?
<kwwii> marcus and otto did that mainly....it is really great work
<zniavre> /home/zniavre/.themes/Ambiance/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:438: error: invalid keyword `widget', expected valid keyword - e.g. `style'
<troy_s> kwwii: Is it rationalist?
<troy_s> kwwii: The CoF blob is a wart. But the face is pretty tight.
<kwwii> zniavre: where did you get that package?
<kwwii> zniavre: sounds like you are missing the gtk update needed to make everything work
<zniavre> launchpad
<kwwii> islington!
<zniavre> ubuntu-mono-dark ?
<kwwii> zniavre: you are quick ;)
<zniavre> as wind
<islington> hello kwwii
<troy_s> kwwii: Is it rationalist?
<sanderqd> kwwii: was the 'n' in ubuntu a last minute change? saw versions with a more standard 'n' just after release :-)
<kwwii> sanderqd: the release has rounded stuff
<sanderqd> yeah, it looks very neat and distinct now
<zniavre> i got two error even with ubuntu-mono
<zniavre> ho clearlooks too?
<sanderqd> awesome, a new interface font being developed
<zniavre> http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5397/capture1q.png  combobox are buggy   (both of them)
<islington> :/ I am going to have to recolor and tweak my lynxwall now that you guys just dropped brown.
<zniavre> fully updated to ubuntu-artwork > try alt+f2 use popuplist it's unreadable
<zniavre> you should add >  text[NORMAL]      = "#dfd8c8"  to menu items at line 212  no?
<zniavre> line 438 is malformed (if malformed is english word)
<zniavre> widget_class "*Notif*"	widget "*IdoEntryMenuItem*" style "wide"	style "panel"
<zniavre> it must be at least two lines
<zniavre> kwwii, i saw you solved line438 error but not the popuplist
<kwwii> zniavre: yeah, I just figured out the extra widget problem
<kwwii> copy/paste eror
<kwwii> populist?
<zniavre> did you try alt+f2 and then using the combobox list
<kwwii> ouch
<zniavre>  this solve the bug >  text[NORMAL]      = "#dfd8c8"  to menu items at line 212  no?
<zniavre> at least it's corrected here now   :o)
<kwwii> let me check
<zniavre> i put this color to fit the colormap
<zniavre> but free to you to put another one you feel better
<kwwii> zniavre: thanks, that sounds right
<kwwii> testing now
<kwwii> zniavre: yepp, that works
<kwwii> thanks!
<zniavre> i do not hav OOo installed you must check menu with it
<zniavre> open office *
<zniavre> i was filing a bug report on light theme ,i thougt i could fix it quickly
<kwwii> we are going to start OOo, firefox and skype with a different theme
<zniavre> ho?
<zniavre> too complicated to use this bicolore theme with Ooo and firefox ?
<zniavre> (i never use skype)
<zniavre> well nice theme even if i do not use it (i really like the panel icons ubuntu-mono)
<zniavre> hav a good night
<kwwii> sorry
<kwwii> they all have problem with a mixed theme
<kwwii> so in order to fix things we'll simply start them with another theme
<zniavre> :o)
<kwwii> probably Radiance
<zniavre> i know cause my theme is "mixed"
<zniavre> to fix OOo and firefox you ll loose somewhere else (radio/check buttons first and possibly more)
<andreasn> kwwii, what's the widget that's causing issues in Firefox?
<kwwii> zniavre: indeed
<kwwii> andreasn: the hard-coded link color in the url drop-down
<zniavre> menubar, bookmarks list
<zniavre> url list not bookmarks thats real name sorry
<andreasn> kwwii, ah, that one... I recall jimmac had that issue too. I wonder if there is a patch floating around somewhere in bugzilla
<andreasn> or at least a bug
<zniavre> or css stuff to theme ff
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-05
<andreasn> kwwii, I think it might be this one https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=437358
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 437358 in Theme "Use native platform colors for URLs in the location bar autocomplete" [Enhancement,Verified: fixed]
<andreasn> and this one (maybe) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=426732
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 426732 in Widget "Implement -moz-nativehyperlinktext" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<kwwii> andreasn: yes, indeed
<kwwii> I will forward that to our mozilla contact
<kwwii> they asked for bugs today
<sanderqd> these themes feel very nice, after an hour of using them
<troy_s> sanderqd: Screenshots?
<sanderqd> troy_s: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/575568/radiance.png
<troy_s> sanderqd: Oof. Dark?
<sanderqd> troy_s: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/575568/ambiance.png
<sanderqd> at first sight i thought they didn't look nice, but there's something about how they feel
<troy_s> sanderqd: Erm... did they locate those buttons on the left?
<sanderqd> troy_s: i did, and the _ [] X order was bugged anyway
<troy_s> sanderqd: Dark is the way to go hopefully. Windeco still is troubled as hell, as is the bold of the title.
<sanderqd> so it seems they are optimising for the new position
<sanderqd> yeah, visually a lot can be improved
<troy_s> sanderqd: I sure hope it isn't there. It is just a landmine of OSX.
<sanderqd> but they have hit something with the colors and depth, somehow. Radiance feels very solid, while Ambience feels fun when hacking and doing graphics
<troy_s> sanderqd: Light's hue is off. They should really get the other leg of that triad.
<troy_s> sanderqd: It is _darn_ close to being there already. If I guess, I'm guessing it is a yellowish hue (no wheel close)
<sanderqd> troy_s: did you read sabfdl's post about the new branding btw? he's got some interesting explanation about how variables are incorporated, and it seems the new font will be used in the whole interface
<troy_s> sanderqd: No.
<troy_s> sanderqd: Yeah and I'm hoping he is dead wrong and in the dark. lol.
<sanderqd> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/308
<troy_s> sanderqd: I have faith that kwwii said there will be a sans and a serif etc for the family.
<troy_s> sanderqd: Avoid the now classic 'put ubuntu face everywhere'
<troy_s> sanderqd: I can only assume that Ken or someone will say something at some point. NO clue though really.
<troy_s> sanderqd: I mean - ask yourself why it took this long and you get a pretty clear picture :)
<troy_s> sanderqd: It isn't like this is all new and fresh thinking. lol.
<sanderqd> troy_s: might make a huge difference if this new font is designed for ubuntu's screen rendering at small sizes
<troy_s> sanderqd: Honestly, that's too retro thinking for me.
<troy_s> sanderqd: Densities are going through the roof. Resolutions are shooting upward not downward.
<troy_s> sanderqd: So while hinting is terrific and all, I am wondering if the era of the return to Serifs might be upon us.
<troy_s> sanderqd: They have huge upside and bring a pretty unique set of looks to the table.
<sanderqd> interesting, do you think serif has an upside in readability, or just in style?
<troy_s> sanderqd: Random arty crap there though. I'm just thinking it might be darn cool to think future driven and focus on desktop - not try to worry too much about lowest common denominator (although it is easy to provide for that realistically... I'm sure there is a well hinted lower face that could be paired well)
<sanderqd> (when used at the right resolution, that is)
<troy_s> sanderqd: Traditionally serifs are used in print for a reason - the serifs (WESTERN BIAS ON) lend to horizontal flow - that's part of their purpose.
<troy_s> sanderqd: Practically, many have a pretty 'classy' feel to them.
<sanderqd> troy_s: but in interfaces, you don't have a lot of text, and certainly no flow. you don't read a menubar as a paragraph
<troy_s> sanderqd: And god knows we are living in an era that has beat the hell out of sans. How many times can Apple change their sans before we see a flip flop back to serif?
<troy_s> sanderqd: Certainly appropriate thinking. How much time do you spend reading blogs / news / webpages though?
<troy_s> sanderqd: I am not saying "ZOMG ITS AN EASY ANSWER", but just sort of throwing it out there as a thought.
<sanderqd> yeah, it's interesting. i've worked with a serif interface font for some months, years ago, think it was Knuth's Computer Modern
<sanderqd> looked great
<troy_s> sanderqd: There are upsides for EuroWestern LTR with serif. There is an aesthetic side as well. It is entirely possible that in today's day and age that 'readability' is growing more subjective to devices than it is getting more 'global' (which is a rubbishy term as Marco Van Hout has pretty much shown)
<troy_s> sanderqd: They are interesting.
<troy_s> sanderqd: Some of them are just damn ... craftsmanlike.
<troy_s> sanderqd: There is a sterility to some of the sans (Helloooooooo Helvetica - nuff said)
<sanderqd> the desktop doesn't need to look too sterile
<troy_s> sanderqd: But really, we should be peeling a page out of Bringhurst and thinking that if we can deliver something that has legibility (which face _doesn't_ today? if not broken hinting?), perhaps we should look to something that has a serious bit of history regarding Libre history. Is there a face that has meaning?
<troy_s> sanderqd: 100%. Desktop? How about a living room? When Xerox invented the desktop way back when, it was an office space. Hence folders etc. What is it _now_?
<troy_s> sanderqd: Looks like it's close to yellow if you use orange as the base of the triad. Almost a lime.
<sanderqd> troy_s: you're trying to find out the Radiance colour?
<troy_s> sanderqd: It is _deadly_ tricky to tone interface panels though. I'm not against it, but I know damn well how hard it is. http://colorschemedesigner.com/#0i32PsslRw0w0
<troy_s> sanderqd: If you _really_ nerfed a tone you _might_ be able to get away with it.
<troy_s> sanderqd: But it is a tough sell.
<troy_s> sanderqd: A really wide triad you can get ballparkish.
<sanderqd> so i think typography matters a lot in interfaces - more than widgets maybe. mac os x looks great, not because of the weird candy buttons, but because Lucida makes great fonts. have you checked out the zune ui?
<troy_s> sanderqd: (Tremendous site by the way, if you didn't already know about it... it gets better every release)
<troy_s> sanderqd: Zune HD is _phenomenal_ and I don't say that easily.
<sanderqd> looks useful indeed
<troy_s> sanderqd: It makes me envious of working on that team. That's pretty incredible.
<troy_s> sanderqd: Dare I say that the Zune HD typographic delivery and such sets the bar.
<troy_s> sanderqd: Imagine someone standing up in front of our culture and saying "OK, I propose typographic play where we actually cut off the label heading of your current area on the top, left, and right.
<sanderqd> never tried whether their way of hiding stuff is any useful, but it looks great and 'futuristic', paradoxically
<troy_s> sanderqd: It looks just... contemporary. Chic.
<troy_s> sanderqd: It borrows enough out of the contemporary design from magazines and such.
<sanderqd> yeah, just 'real typography'
<troy_s> sanderqd: Which is a case in point - look outside of the fricking closet of Apple and Microsoft. Look to architecture. Look to magazines. Look to fashion. You probably already are if you give a flying hoop about art and design.
<troy_s> sanderqd: This clip shows it off extremely well.
<troy_s> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_WPdg6zUeE
<troy_s> sanderqd: It is just so damn well done it is disturbing how far behind we are falling. But the community at large has shown a much more sincere interest in art / design / aesthetic / experience in the past two years I would say. There is momentum.
<troy_s> sanderqd: I bet you dollars for doughnuts that the ZuneHD work has floated through Apple with some degree of envy. It's pretty fantastic.
<sanderqd> so it looks creepy to me to only show 'ALBUMS ARTIST PLA' and assume that the user knows there are SONGS, PICTURES etc too. but they'll have tested that
<troy_s> sanderqd: Don't worry about it. You selected it right?
<troy_s> sanderqd: Part of your problem is that you are saying 'user' in my mind. Simple language, but try changing it to one of your friends names.
<troy_s> sanderqd: It _entirely_ shifts the way you perceive your 'guesses'. And that is exactly what they are - guesses. Judgement calls. When you firmly locate a name to something, you get a much clearer picture than rolling out random 'user' or 'Persona A Jim'
<troy_s> sanderqd: If I said 'Engage the user with an emotional experience' you would design one thing. If I said "Engage your mother with an emotional experience" you would likely have a much better idea and push things much harder.
<sanderqd> you're right with "you selected it," that wasn't visible with the screen resolution. so it's really mostly a ZUI, and that's awesome
<troy_s> sanderqd: It's just damn ... on. Open up any of the music magazines on the shelf at your local big book store. You could hold that up and go "You know what - this pairs really well with it."
<troy_s> sanderqd: And bingo - you can see your context and likely who the audience is for that device. It isn't for your 40 year old father or mother. Sure they might totally love it, but isn't the target.
<sanderqd> you're probably right that something like this can only be achieved with a very different approach. which sounds feasable within the OSS community too, just some people need to stand up
<troy_s> sanderqd: If anything, our community should be able to deliver _more_ diversity at a _greater_ pace than the two other folks.
<troy_s> sanderqd: So while people knock "Ubuntu Muslim Edition" or "Ubuntu Christian Edition", if you visualize a future where their execution is _on point_, you can clearly see a world where A and MS cannot compete. Nor would they _dare_.
<sanderqd> delivering is hard, technologically speaking. you can't just create a whole new experience with our complex gtk+ apps
<troy_s> sanderqd: We have some _extremely_ brilliant coders in our community. Pure genius.
<sanderqd> sure, but right now they're very much needed for the core ubuntu
<troy_s> sanderqd: When a problem is framed concretely, I would be as bold as to say that there are very few groups out there capable of solving problems as efficiently.
<troy_s> sanderqd: Who knows. You just never know who is going to come up. Right now the landscape is ripe for competition.
<sanderqd> it would be really cool if ubuntu featured something like real culture-specfic themes. so that i can have an african week, and someone in the usa can experience modern dutch design
<troy_s> sanderqd: I brought that up years ago.
<troy_s> sanderqd: Shot down so fast it would make your head spin.
<sanderqd> yeah, though i saw you writing about it yesterday too
<troy_s> sanderqd: I brought up cultural specific icons as well.
<troy_s> sanderqd: And the response from someone on high "Does Microsoft or Apple do that?"
<sanderqd> it's currently incredibly hard (years ago even more), having so few good designers in the community. (really few)
<troy_s> sanderqd: So ... part of it is clearly a cultural shift. I can't even begin to wrap my head around traditional Mandarin interfaces.
<sanderqd> but that's a bad response indeed
<troy_s> sanderqd: Which is why I'd make a strong case that when we _choose_ an audience, we should likely choose an influential one. What is wrong with offering Lawrence Lessig a hotline for support and an Ubuntu computer? How about Cory Doctorow? Etc.
<troy_s> sanderqd: The creatives that already _get it_ are likely some extremely powerful and influential allies to be gained.
<sanderqd> i think we're only just getting at a point where that's feasible, where ubuntu really has something to offer as an OS
<sanderqd> it's telling that many ubuntu / gnome designers still use macosx right now
<troy_s> sanderqd: My _big_ hope is that Canonical is able to either leverage or subsidize the important missing features in our design apps. Deep colour. Linear colour. Performance. etc.
<troy_s> sanderqd: It's shameful. Not telling.
<troy_s> sanderqd: It shows a face of a group of people that are half-committed. "Come over and use xxx while I use yyy"
<troy_s> sanderqd: And again, I always ask this: How long do you think you would work at Apple if you insisted on carrying around a Zune or using Windows 7?
<sanderqd> yeah well, a chicken-and-egg problem that can be solved by paying designers to use ubuntu for now
<troy_s> sanderqd: If you are paying them, I'm pretty sure you should be able to get some change. And being an extremely influential project, you should be able to get change out of the projects that they are relying on.
<sanderqd> not paying extra, but having a corporate culture where using something different is as 'not done' as in apple, of course
<troy_s> sanderqd: It is win win.
<troy_s> sanderqd: Stress test the software. Where it breaks, get the changes done. As it is now, everyone keeps going 'well it can't xxx' and then bails back to the dual boot.
<sanderqd> not everyone i suppose, most software on ubuntu is as good or better than elsewhere. our design tools are just not good enough yet
<troy_s> sanderqd: There are plenty of gripes in audio land too. But that's the point - the audience for those applications should be the focus. Worrying about single window in a UI is such amoot point.
<sanderqd> and that's where the desktop will shine anyway - most non-specialistic apps will find a better place on the web
<troy_s> sanderqd: And there are some productivity issue in officeland too. The breaking point is that while the 'full time professional' needs come in. While they probably only make up say, 20% of the usage, that 20% is mandatory. If you can't do xxx in office (god knows there are a few of those) then the whole thing is a toss out.
<troy_s> sanderqd: True. We can find a little hope in Google for non intensive apps. That still leaves a glaring hole in audio / visual design where performance is likely years away.
<sanderqd> only years by the way, there is web technology coming that brings native performance to web apps (google's native-client)
<sanderqd> and the whatwg is working on letting webapps use local hardware better, like sound and video devices
<troy_s> crappers. net hits thru the roof today. erk.
<troy_s> sanderqd: Great chat. Nice to actually be having them in these parts. Off to pickup my daughter. Be good friend.
<sanderqd> troy_s: inspiring chat indeed, take care
<wers> is the package for light themes up yet? if so, what's the package name? :)
<sanderqd> wers: something like light-theme
<sanderqd> light-themes, actually
<wers> sanderqd, thanks. found it. it depends on ubuntu-mono, but i cant find it. hmmm
<sanderqd> wers: it's the icon theme, you might have to wait an hour for it to appear on your local repository
<wers> ubuntu-mono is the name of the icon theme? hmm. i thought it was the other mono
<wers> sanderqd, where can i find that package? i'm on karmic, actually. i'm just pulling stuff from other repos
<sanderqd> wers: should be in main i guess
<wers> sanderqd, you mean, lucid main, right?
<sanderqd> but i'm not sure the themes will work on karmic, they might depend on major gtk+ changes
<sanderqd> yeah
<wers> it's weird cause i cant even find ubuntu-mono on http://packages.ubuntu.com/
<wers> probably it's contained in another meta-pacakge and it doesnt appear as an individual package
<wers> anyway, gtg
<LLStarks> kwwii. light or dark for default?
<DaemonFC> what gives with the incorrect order of minimize/maximize?
<DaemonFC> persia, there you go :)
<zniavre> good morning
<thorwil> good morning!
<iainfarrell> morning!
<thorwil> iainfarrell: can you give me the definitive orange and aubergine values to use?
<iainfarrell> hey thorwil
<iainfarrell> we are getting test prints back today
<iainfarrell> this will allow us to see what the variation on the colours is on different paper types
<iainfarrell> once that's done I should have final values
<thorwil> ok
<thorwil> i guess the announcements made it seem a little bit more finished than it actually is
<zniavre> do you see how tooltips can be displayed differently on rgba supported application as system-monitor or nautilus ?
<zniavre> or just in one application (eg emesene) http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3038/capturewb.png   vs http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/918/capture1r.png
<tgpraveen12> i just got the new themes and again now have the problem of the new-message-icon for message-indicator not being distinctly visible
<tgpraveen12> i liked the icon before this one where it become bright green. should i file a bug for this?
<zniavre> it came with ubuntu-mono you should try to change icons theme to humanity-dark or light
<tgpraveen12> zniavre: i found a bug about my issue.
<zniavre> a ok
<tgpraveen12> i would like to stick to the default one only.
<zniavre> im not sure i can help you for that   , sorry
<zniavre> http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3166/screenshot1qy.png    there is a bug with indicator-sound ubuntu-mono icon no ?
<zniavre> uggly one is indicator-sound, good one is gnome-volume-control-applet
<MTecknology> Is the new theme goin to be opened up to the public?
<dashua> kwwii, Radiance needs normal focused prelight and pressed icons.  The icons are all the same and there is no effect.
<dashua> I'll file a bug :)
<dashua> Noe intentional, right?
<dashua> Not*
<kwwii> dashua: yes, I know...we're still working on the buttons so I wanted to wait (avoiding doing too much work)
<kwwii> dashua: feel free to file a bug
<dashua> Ok np.  Trying to help fix some bugs here :)
<kwwii> dashua: thanks ;)
<dashua> Awesome themes man.
<kwwii> hehe, thanks...I think our team has really shown it's presence now!
<dashua> For sure.  Very nice work.
 * kwwii leaves for the airport
<knome> iainfarrell, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand/DerivativesRoadmap - we're working on it with paolo
<iainfarrell> hey knome, he mentioned
<iainfarrell> that's cool
<knome> great :)
<knome> btw, any idea when we'll get the vector stuff? i'm still anxiously waiting..
<knome> i pretty much would like to see the logo variations with the final text
 * thorwil wonders if he should or shouldn't do cycling jerseys
<knome> what do you mean by "doing"
<thorwil> knome: saw the mail from Trey on artwork list?
<knome> no
<knome> i don't think i'm on the artwork list right now
<thorwil> knome: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2010-March/011857.html
<knome> right
<knome> probably you should
<islington> I think that dragging toolbar+menubar is a great thing, in kde one of the reasone I love bespin is beecause there is a hack that lets me drag anywhere there isnt a widget
<psyke83> hi
<thorwil> ouch, that's harsh: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/308#comment-324270
<ripps> Does the new radiance and ambiance themes have launchpad bzr branches?
<Agafonov> Yes, and where to fill bugs against them? :)
<knome> thorwil, people are barbars.
<Agafonov> will bugreport against "ubuntu-artwork" project... ;-)
<islington> thorwil: lol'ed Grade A rage going there
<thorwil> troy_s: http://vimeo.com/9865011
<troy_s> thorwil: Wow... even at Flash's uber crappy 1 frame per second it's pretty damn cool.
<troy_s> I was expecting an art film rendering... it's a little more Pixar meets Transformers. Lol.
<thorwil> troy_s: it makes my inner industrial designer smile!
<thorwil> heh, solidworks/rhino -> blender
<thorwil> the first 2 were popular at my university
<mrmcq2u> Hey guys, nice work on the menubar :D That something which irritated me about themes like shiki :D
<thorwil> mrmcq2u: hi. the people responsible are barely represented/present here
<mrmcq2u> ah
<mrmcq2u> Has danrabbits mockups for the software center been discussed?
<thorwil> mrmcq2u: i'm not aware of the mockup or any discussion
<mrmcq2u> http://DanRabbit.deviantart.com/art/Redesigned-Software-Center-I-144074860
<mrmcq2u> I think that the departments section needs some work too
<thorwil> mrmcq2u: guess that would be more a topic for mpt, who is never in this channel
<mrmcq2u> other than the unfinished look of the blue departments and more info page of the software center its seems to be shaping up nicely, I love how I can manage external repos now, I dont feel compelled to use synaptic for the most part.
<mrmcq2u> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FJH0hYZmVtc/S5ADap_601I/AAAAAAAAGOw/mma0S35XdC0/s1600-h/Ubuntu_Light___Re_Imagined_by_fibermarupok.jpg
<mrmcq2u> have you seen that
<mrmcq2u> would be nice if that look for the volume applet was possible in the next release :)
<mrmcq2u> would be nice to be able to use it for the all the applets including the clock to keep it consistent and also for right click context menu's
<mrmcq2u> The clock can look out of place to the rest of the applets with some dark themes like shiki
<zniavre> mrmcq2u,  +1 fot volume stuff
<zniavre> for*
<artir> Ubuntu's new icon theme is called...
<artir> ubuntu-mono
<artir> scared :) ?
<thorwil> as long as it isn't iIcons ...
<artir> thorwil: not yet, but that's for ubunntu 11.10 , which will of course feature the iCons and will look like this http://grigio.org/files/ubuntu-mac.jpg
<mrmcq2u> Have you guys seen this yet? http://fibermarupok.deviantart.com/art/Banshee-RythmBox-Re-Imagined-156231564
<mrmcq2u> His icons in this mockup for play/pause/skip etc seem to be a better fit than the current icons for the new theme - http://fibermarupok.deviantart.com/art/Banshee-RythmBox-Re-Imagined-156231564
<artir> yep
<artir> I hope the new themes ends up becoming sth like that
<mrmcq2u> atir - you realise apple didn't invent monochrome icons right?
<mrmcq2u> They have been used on mobiles for quite awhile now. I don't here people complaining about android icons being monochrome :) or symbian etc
<mrmcq2u> I love the toolbar in the rhythmbix mockup :), I am not a fan of the flat look which shiki and the new ubuntu theme uses
<artir> I know
<artir> I was being sarcastic
<islington> http://blog.nixternal.com/2010.03.05/let-me-tell-you-where-to-put-the-buttons/
<islington> lol
<andreasn> mrmcq2u, http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm/symbol-signs :)
<kwwii> andreasn: nice ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-06
<dashua> kwwii, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/45469/screenshot_002_2Gvg80.png
<dashua> All drawn with murrine.
<kwwii> dashua: wow, that is interesting
<dashua> I can't get more handles like the pixmap.
<kwwii> dashua: yeah, and the arrows are not exactly what we want...we are planning to add button looking bits to that
<kwwii> but it is a good idea not to use the pixmap engine ;)
<andreasn> kwwii, found it the other day when looking for the first monocrome icon set
<kwwii> andreasn: hehe, cool
<dashua> kwwii, Yeah, I can't seem to set the steppers outside.
<kwwii> dashua: it looks promising though, I'd like to see the scrollbars a bit whiter though
<dashua> Ok
<kwwii> up until a couple of days ago we had differnt scrollbars ;)
<dashua> Really?
<dashua> Pixmaps?
<kwwii> lol, yepp
<kwwii> yes
<kwwii> but very quite different from the current version
<kwwii> lol, very/quite
<dashua> They are nice, you just get stuck with the one color though.
<kwwii> dashua: it should be easy to change the color of the progress bars with murrine
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/45473/screenshot_004_ZqtCFv.png
<dashua> This looks pretty good
<kwwii> dashua: oooh, nice
<kwwii> you have to send me the gtkrc ;)
<dashua> Can I branch light-themes?
<dashua> I don't see any option for it.
<kwwii> yes, but it is not in it's final place in bzr
<dashua> I keep junking it for now.
<dashua> Ah ok
<kwwii> so put in your lp and point me to it ;)
<dashua> Sure
<kwwii> zacbarton also fixed the win deco buttons just now ;)
<dashua> I haven't done Radiance yet
<dashua> Awesome
<kwwii> what a good way to end the week ;)
<dashua> Are you solid with no gradients in the toolbar?
<kwwii> honestly, yes
<dashua> Ok np
<kwwii> good stuff though, I'll show it to my colleagues and see what they think
<dashua> Ok cool, I'll get a branch up
<dashua> junk
<dashua> Thx
<kwwii> it is a bit different from our original design but doing it with murrine is much nicer
<kwwii> and for now at least, we have to live with what we have ;)
<dashua> Yeah, I removed the pixmaps in Dust too
<kwwii> now I know what Cimi meant yesterday
<kwwii> :p
<dashua> It's nice what you can control.
<kwwii> indeed
<dashua> I see mat_t filed a bug for the border_shade and colors
<dashua> That's very easy to do with murrine, rather than making a new image
<kwwii> hrm, I wonder what he didn't just tell me ;)
<dashua> Hehe
<kwwii> oh well, time for sleep
<kwwii> gotta get up in 5 hours
<dashua> Nite mate
<dashua> I'll clean this up and branch it.
<kwwii> dashua: cheers, g'night
<mrmcq2u> kwii , dashua what do you guys think of the toolbars in this mockup : http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FJH0hYZmVtc/S5EIP0sxDaI/AAAAAAAAGRM/Mhjgn5A0gnE/s1600-h/Banshee_RythmBox_Re_Imagined_by_fibermarupok.jpg
<zniavre> dashua, your theme is wonderfull
<psyke83> hi, I submitted a page to the Incoming/Lucid wiki. The thumbnails are 800x600, is that ok? When you create a new page, the source tells you to use 600px, but the SubmissionGuidelins page says 300px (which I only noticed afterwards)
<thorwil> psyke83: shouldn't be the case
<thorwil> psyke83: where exactly does it say that?
<psyke83> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/SubmissionGuidelines
<psyke83> "Don't include large images in the page directly. Rather use small versions of maximal 300 pixels height and link to the full size image."
<psyke83> hmm...
<psyke83> I can't find the recommendation about 600px now, one sec
<psyke83> ah I was mistaken, it says 300 pixels in both locations
<psyke83> I should resize, then, or is it not so strict?
<thorwil> psyke83: it said height in one case and width in the other, though. now it's both width
<thorwil> psyke83: when i put the 300 px width in, i was mainly thinking about wallpaper pages, where we had a lot of thumbnails
<psyke83> well the submission is a gtk theme, so seeing the widgets in the thumb is ideal
<psyke83> should I change it? here it is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid/Dichotomy
<thorwil> psyke83: no, it's alright
<psyke83> ok
<thorwil> psyke83: seeing how the 300px thing just sucks for themes, i changed it to 800 px in both places
<psyke83> thorwil: that seems reasonable... most screens run at 1024x768 at minimum, with exception to the smaller netbooks and mobile devices
<psyke83> (and really, why would you use a mobile to view the art wiki? heh)
<thorwil> kwwii: moin! did you guys manage to decide on final orange and aubergine values yesterday?
<thorwil> some hilarious motu shit: http://ihavethepowerart.blogspot.com/2010/01/under-influence-masters-of-universe.html
 * thorwil vanishes in a dramatic gesture to get lunch
<zacbarton> psyke83: Dichotomy looks very nice
<psyke83> zacbarton: thanks
<zacbarton> psyke83: i like the use of the purple in the scrollbars. i think it works well
<psyke83> zacbarton: yes, I was surprised by that (though undoubtedly the wallpaper helps give this impression)
<zacbarton> psyke83: do you have plans to continue working on it? if so what's next?
<zacbarton> psyke83: ofcourse dont answer if your rather supprise us all
<psyke83> zacbarton: well, the next step is to refine everything, and clean up the code (that's not something a user cares about)
<zacbarton> psyke83: true but its worth doing id say. clean on the inside = clean on the outside
<psyke83> yep
<psyke83> gotta run, see you all later
<dashua> Morning
<ripps> I was thinking of making a modified version of those animated xml wallpapers, but it pulls it's transistion information by pulling the sunrise/sunset time from weather.com,etc.
<ripps> Is that possible?
<zniavre> http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/6148/capture1p.png  this is openoffice theme ?
<AnAnt> Hello, something I don't understand about plymouth. What's the password_field for ?
<AnAnt> ah, I think I get it now
<artir> :)
<merbit> hello artwork-ians :) I am puzzled by a paragraph of the upcoming new font license, perhaps someone can make it clear for me: http://pastebin.com/LsLWMygt -- thanks in advance
<merbit> oh.. if there's a different channel where I should ask this question, please mention it
<thorwil> merbit: there's practically no presence of the designers working at canonical here
<thorwil> merbit: as it is weekend and late (london time)
<merbit> argh.. true, thanks!
<thorwil> merbit: fonts really need special licenses
<thorwil> merbit: there's GPL with font exception, for example
<thorwil> or the sil open font license
<thorwil> merbit: canonical has the lawyers to craft a custom license, though, i guess
<thorwil> merbit: so wait and see ;)
<merbit> well, personally I wouldn't mind, whatever the license, only to be free enough to allow its redistribution :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-07
<kwwii> zacbarton: hey, I realized that I had tried your solultion before...if you change th font size things crazy
<kwwii> things *go* crazy
<kwwii> anyway, time for sleep
<kwwii> night
<ripps> Hey, I was wondering if any of you artists would like to give me an honest this new gtk theme I made, it's based of the new Ambiance theme: http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=121118
<ripps> ^honest opinion
<joeseph> hello
<comutamike> hi guys - I'm struggling with packaging themes for Ubuntu - do we have any guidelines or notes on how to do it ?
<dashua> Getting used to these metacity buttons on the left side already after just a few days.  It's a actually quite nice.
<kwwii> comutamike: nothing of that sort that I know of, take a package and look at how it is done, copy that
<comutamike> I tried that with the ubuntu artwork package - I tried uploading my version of that to launchpad, but it complained about the rules file - wich was't in the source.
<sanderqd> kwwii: would it be possible to add some spacing between the legacy systray icons, to make it look more consistent?
<kwwii> well, ubuntu-artwork is not the package you should look at, I think
<kwwii> comutamike: what are you trying to package?
<kwwii> sanderqd: yeah, I was thinking the same thing
<kwwii> sanderqd: not sure how easily doable it is, but I will look into it
<comutamike> I'm trying to package some wall papers and themes - That's what in the ubuntu artwork package
<sanderqd> kwwii: it works out nicely in gnome-shell, and the spacing can become clickable so that it's easier to open their menus
<comutamike> is there a better package i should use?
<vish> kwwii: sanderqd: its being done in fedora , http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/mclasen/2009/10/26/5-little-things/
<sanderqd> yeah, was looking for their code
<comutamike> kwwii: I'll try re-packaging - ubuntu-wallpapers packages...
<sanderqd> kwwii, vish: mclasen's patch for fedora is here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343436
<ubottu> Gnome bug 343436 in Panel "gnome-panel should allow to set margin/padding for icons on panel" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<sanderqd> this has shipped in F12, hopefully it's not too late to include in U10.04
<thorwil> so far the only adjustment of the Artwork section of the wiki to the new situation is the removal of my Numerals page
<vish> :(
<thorwil> explanations of the new strategy as partly happened on Mark's blog should land in the wiki, too
<thorwil> along of checking whether the message/audience stuff still makes sense
<thorwil> would create a todo if only i could be bothered
<thorwil> troy_s: you're much too nice and open for those commentators on reddit
<troy_s> thorwil: Lol.
<troy_s> thorwil: I got a warning from the forums. I was rather shocked on that front.
<thorwil> troy_s: it's like a high-society gentleman trying to discuss greek philosophy with slum dwellers
<troy_s> thorwil: I'm not very good with those high-society types. /me is from the slums.
<thorwil> troy_s: warning on the ubuntu forums? did you raise the level of insight into critical heights?
<troy_s> thorwil: Lol. No. I just tried to respond politely to what seemed to be a knee jerk comment.
<thorwil> troy_s: just teasing you a bit. the contrast is there, though
<thorwil> vish: just in case that isn't clear, i removed that myself
<vish> thorwil: nah , i got that ;)
<vish> thorwil: just today i was wondering about the numerals work you did and the revs it underwent..
<thorwil> vish: i just file that as nice training
<vish> thorwil: hehe , you should get into typography  ;p
<thorwil> vish: what, should i get out just to reenter? ;p
<vish> thorwil: lol.. i meant full-fledged
<vish> hehe , noticed several comment on sabdfl's blog asking canonical to hire troy_s ;)
<thorwil> yeah, i'm doing it wrong
<troy_s> God that would never happen.
<troy_s> Ever.
<troy_s> Ugh.
<troy_s> I'm well underqualified.
<thorwil> i'm about 2,5 meters sideways-qualified for about everything
 * thorwil leaves to move a fork to his mouth many times in succession
<thorwil> plop
<knome> hello thorwil
<thorwil> hi knome. how is the mouse doing?
<knome> haven't moved much during the weekend
<knome> will get going again on monday when the design team returns to work
<knome> i've been working mostly with the new website theme
<kwwii> a mouse that doesn't move much must be dead ;)
<knome> which is actually doing pretty well!
<knome> kwwii, it's just paralyzed by my farts
<knome> ;)
<kwwii> :P
<dashua> kwwii, Fixed about 10 reported bugs and another 10 unreported for light-themes.
<kwwii> dashua: wow, sounds good!
<dashua> I subscribed you to the branch.  Just let me know of any changes you need?
<dashua> It's pretty easy to fix as it looks like a majority of the code is based on Dust ;)
<kwwii> dashua: excellent, thanks! I'm heading out to the cinema in a bit
<kwwii> dashua: indeed it is ;)
<dashua> Np
<dashua> Have fun :)
<kwwii> I will check it out first thing tomorrow morning
<kwwii> I hope to ;) you too!
<dashua> Thx :)
<psyke83> dashua: just took a look at your -refresh branch - is the combobox arrow part of the widget supposed to have that strong outline?
<dashua> psyke83, Actually no.  I wanted it to all blend in.
<psyke83> dashua: it's caused by a combination of the border_colors and contrast engine settings for the button style (lines 129, 130... at least in Ambience)
<psyke83> commenting the lines seems to fix the problem
<dashua> Ok cool. Thx.
<dashua> Awesome.     Works great :)
<psyke83> I'm not sure if you added the border_colors option to your refresh, or it was Ken and the other art people... but I think it slightly changes all button outlines when you comment it
<psyke83> nevertheless, I think all buttons look fine (better?) with the lines commented :)
<dashua> I added the border_shades and colors for the dimensional look, but this works out better.
<dashua> Seems the combo isn't honoring the shades and colors even if added to combobox.
<psyke83> well, the button style supersedes the combobox style
<psyke83> it's something like GtkWindow.*.GtkComboBox.GtkButton
<dashua> psyke83, Do know any workarounds for Vino?
<psyke83> what's the problem?
<dashua> It's taking the tooltip_bg color making it unreadable from the dark purple.
<dashua> Open Remote Desktop
<dashua> You will see it.
<psyke83> ah
<psyke83> it may be possible to add a theme override, but this is genuinely a problem with the application that should be fixed in its code
<psyke83> it would be less painful if it used the tooltip_fg_color as well
<psyke83> dashua: the eXperience gtk engine is useful for problems like this
<thorwil> vish: added manual title page tests to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Artwork (look for 2010-03-07 a to e)
<psyke83> dashua: I'm checking it now, but here's instructions for reference: http://ebm.pastebin.com/9sYVCptP
<dashua> Yeah, the only I could only come up with lightening the tooltip_bg but that takes away from the projected look.
<dashua> Nice, Let me check that out
<psyke83> dashua: 'Classpath: GtkDialog.GtkVBox.GtkVBox.GtkVBox.GtkHBox.GtkEventBox.VinoMessageBox : "tooltip"'
<psyke83> so you can add a "*VinoMessageBox*" override, perhaps
<dashua> Let me try it.
<vish> thorwil: > #u-manual
<psyke83> dashua, this works: widget "*VinoMessageBox*" style:highest "murrine-tooltip2"
<dashua> Ha cool
<dashua> Just tried this style "vino_bg"
<dashua> {
<dashua> 	fg[NORMAL] = @bg_color
<dashua> }
<dashua> widget_class "*VinoMessageBox*" style "vino_bg"
<psyke83> however, I can't make it change the tooltip_bg_color, only the tooltip_fg_color (so you can make the text white, for example)
<dashua> And the text is readable now
<psyke83> right... it's odd that the bg can't be changed
<psyke83> perhaps it's drawn by a different class
<dashua> Yeah
<psyke83> it still doesn't look perfect (the progress ring is still in black, and is barely visible)
<dashua> psyke83, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/45705/screenshot_011_YCVGYy.png
<dashua> Not so good.
<psyke83> just a sec
<psyke83> dashua: it's better to patch vino, gimme a min
<psyke83> dashua: is a bug for this issue filed yet?
<dashua> Yeah
<dashua> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/533520
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 533520 in light-themes "Unreadable hint in Remote Desktop Preferences" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<psyke83> ok, I've modified the source and it now works fine
<psyke83> however, I merely removed the code telling to use the tooltip_bg_color
<psyke83> if I add code to make sure it uses the tooltip_fg_color, it may still look ugly
<dashua> Nice
<dashua> psyke83, pushed those border fixes for the combobox
<dashua> Thx
<psyke83> no prob
<dashua> So vino just has to be patched for this to work correctly?
<psyke83> dashua: the style override in the gtkrc is messy
<psyke83> I've attached a patch that removes the usage of the tooltip style
<psyke83> result: http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1820/screenshotremotedesktop.png
<psyke83> (that's not the ambience theme, but uses the same tooltip colours)
<dashua> Ah nice
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/45711/screenshot_012_0RPG9D.png
<dashua> Works good psyke83
<psyke83> considering the issue with that spinner not being visible when the tooltip bg is used, it's better that way IMHO
<dashua> Definitely
<kwwii> I am amazed that nobody picked up on the fact that the font is being created by one of the leading fontographers
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-02-28
<thorwil> good morning!
<akshatj> morning thorwil
<thorwil> vish: to reify, from reification, means to give form, to make more real, something abstract
<vish> ah!
<thorwil> maybe i read too much programming stuff. next thing you know i say things like zygohistomorphic prepremorphism
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-01
<coz_> good day all
<darkmatter> heya coz_
<coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy :)
<darkmatter> coz_: for all my dislike of cloning a mac, lions new default wally is <3 http://osxdaily.com/2011/02/24/mac-os-x-10-7-lion-fuji-mountain-wallpaper/
<coz_> darkmatter,  that's not bad wallpaper... its simple ...not too distracting
<darkmatter> ya
<coz_> darkmatter,  some of this guy's work is attractive also   http://wasimagined.deviantart.com/gallery/26836503#
<coz_> I dont know why he chose to show the wallpaper on an image of a monitor  but ...there it is :)
<darkmatter> coz_: they all do that. 'cuz it's a 'mac' thing. lol
<coz_> oh!!  no wonder I didnt like it :)
<darkmatter> coz_: ah yes. I actually have a few of his on my hdd
<coz_> darkmatter,  seems he uses a lot of photoshop plugins but thats fine by me... I am using one he made now.. although I a bit jealous of the fine linel texture he as on it :(
<darkmatter> ekua, abha, and gale iirc. to lazy to check ;)
<coz_> darkmatter,  here is a screenshot of my present desktop   http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/screenshots/blackivory.png
<coz_> not great but relaxing  which is what I needed these past 2 weeks :)
<coz_> it's the texture he achieved,, I cant do that    in photoshop ...yet
<coz_> but its quite clear it is there
<coz_> but subtle enough to be unobtrusive
<darkmatter> coz_: nice
<coz_> darkmatter,  it's relaxing ,, as I said,,, so for now "it's nice"  :)
<darkmatter> coz_: I _just_ started work on a hybrid murrine/pixmap theme.  willnice and lightish (not white). clean, no "divisions" (basing it on my sketches). green buttons for default selections. blueish glow on mousovers. you can probably imagin it somewhat. as you've seen my experiments to a degree. I hate busy ui
<coz_> darkmatter,  yes :)  and I almost always like your visions,,, and the green buttons sound real nice  :)
<darkmatter> no screenies since I literally just started. lol. but my panel bg "sorta" matches it. light/airy
<coz_> darkmatter,  i can wait :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  I have gotten away from completely dark themes...no one does them well enought for my tastes  and the few I edited were a PITA so i stopped
<darkmatter> coz_: going to try to get gtk to replicate myt feel (I mean as in the app overrides). bye bye big fat panel separators. by example, nautilus sidebar will match the content. with a nice gradient 'stripe' that is 'just' noticable enough and fades top/bottom. only the toolbars will have a bit of distinction (since I have to tolerate their existence :P)
<coz_> darkmatter,  ooo  I like the sound of it :)
<darkmatter> clean ala things like feedly if you want an example from the web
<coz_> feedly is the name of the a theme?
<darkmatter> make the "I has chrome!" bits feel almost chromeless
<darkmatter> coz_: its a feed reader (website)
<coz_> oh lol sorry  didnt know that :)
<darkmatter> coz_: it looks kinda like a magazine. bg is textured grey (like paper. content is on a 'page'. all the online pics suck though. have the old look
<darkmatter> sec. I'll screeny my feedly
<coz_> darkmatter,  slow upload?
<darkmatter> coz_: was munching. lol :P
<coz_> :)
<coz_> yes food first please :)
<darkmatter> coz_: http://i.imgur.com/10g8x.png ignore the content (haven't beautified it yet). but note the 'ui'
<coz_> ah yes thats ok to lok at ... dam elementary :)
<darkmatter> :P
<coz_> darkmatter,  are you sticking with button on the left?
<darkmatter> but coz. I mean the readers "toolbar" and how most the ui is "in page" not the exact aesthetics
<coz_> darkmatter,  yes I see that  :)   very minimal ,, very nice
<darkmatter> coz_: lol. only until I get my stuff done :P
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh ok :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  I always switch t hose darn button positions
<darkmatter> coz_: and it blends with the content. that's how I've always thought apps should "feel" not just the web. screw this <chome> chrome <bit of content> more chrome <bit more content> crap ;D
<coz_> darkmatter,  yes I agree.. I like it looking much more integrated like that
<darkmatter> kill the tab bar and you get a better idea. toss in a bit of readability and you get an even better idea (<3 readability. best bit of sanity on the web)
<coz_> :)
<darkmatter> coz_: more integrated an "prettier" without needing 20lbs of bling to bling it. hehe
<darkmatter> coz_do you use readability? the extension is free. just the "save" thing is monthly rental :P
<coz_> darkmatter,  yes something nice and fast as well an pretty
<coz_> darkmatter,  no I dont  I should check into it?
<darkmatter> coz_: convers articles (from any sute) to a readable state. basically "book like" to an extent. themeable. sec. I'll screeny something fugly like an omg! page
<coz_> darkmatter,  I see that ,, reading about it now... mm an "R" in the status bar... I already have an "R"  :)  oh well installing anyway
<coz_> darkmatter,  nice :)
<coz_> ok I am off to bed,,,  need extra sleep this week,,, darkmatter   keep me up to date on this :)
<coz_> hey all
<coz_> hey all
<darkmatter> heta coz_
<darkmatter> y*
<darkmatter> fingers. hate them.
<coz_> hey all
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-02
<darkmatter> heya coz_
<coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy
 * darkmatter feels like an idiot xD
<darkmatter> was about to go catch a bus I'm not catching til tomorrow (I thought today was wednesday. lol)
<coz_> :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  been there  :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  I have had a bad day myself...a few people insisted that I was arrogant or critical
<coz_> darkmatter,  I didnt know what to say to them so I just left which probably fueled the fire I gues
<darkmatter> coz_: meh, I come across like that on my good days :P
<coz_> :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  I dont see you as arrogant at ll
<darkmatter> coz_: on the otherhand I switched my compiz/metacity config over to BeOS style window management
<coz_> darkmatter,  ooo
<coz_> darkmatter,  i was thinking of fireing up my BeOs box but it didnt work :(
<darkmatter> close <double click hide> maximize. plus some extras. like mouse wheel shading, etc
<coz_> darkmatter,   cool
<coz_> darkmatter, no tabs  though
<darkmatter> coz_: but also started piddling around with some old crap (amiga, qnx, etc) and had an _awesome_ idea for window grouping without cluttering the ui with tabs
<coz_> oh?
<darkmatter> as in "multi windows grouped" tabs ;p
<coz_> darkmatter,  mmm
<coz_> darkmatter,  what would be the alternative to tabs?
<darkmatter> coz_: was looking at how 'oldschool' windowing presented 'extras' in the borders, and then thought of my concepr for killing in app tabs. thought, what if you had a <windows/tabs/whatever> glyph that appeared when grouping occurred (in the deco), and then mousing over would display a list of the windows grouped could even support thumbs I guess). basically the same as tabbing, but cleaner. because you have the indication of groupng w
<darkmatter> ithout the clutter
<coz_> darkmatter,  sounds like the group and tab plugin for compiz
<darkmatter> not "omg revolutionary!" or anything. just a logical adaptation
<darkmatter> coz_: kinda, but gui driven
<darkmatter> i used to love the keyboard, but in recent years I've started to hate it :P
<darkmatter> coz_: mouse wheel on background/workspace to "quick tab" though windows?
<coz_> darkmatter,  ok sounds nice
<darkmatter> coz_: of curse it's just a very rough hashup atm. but works. since it kinda fits with how I'm handling things like multiple webpages and the like (not really any _real_ code yet (just a bit on nostromo)) but common patterns ++
<coz_> cool
<darkmatter> coz_: similar methodology could be adapted to a window list. also inspired by classic windowmanagement. how some os's/window managers had the "raise/lower button, but the window  decoration had to be visible to raise/lower it. the "popup list/thumbox" thingy could work there as well I guess, because you wouldn't need to see the window, nor throw the mouse to a panel/dock
<darkmatter> coz_: I know I'm kinda rambling, just looking for feedback
<coz_> darkmatter,  I like the ideas,,, I just dont know how it would work in code... I am still somewhat up in the air with my coding skills
<darkmatter> :)
<darkmatter> bbiab. watching tv with the missus
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-03
<coz_> hey all
<coz_> hey all
<thorwil> strange to see the new scrollbar widgets now, close to one year after briefly getting into conception with D. Siegel, after talking with Mark
<thorwil> sadly, that kinda petered out, and than Siegel disappeared
<coz_> hey guys
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-04
<ray_> hello
<ray_> I would like to change the purple booting theme from purple to black on Ubuntu 10.04, I've already followed most of this guide but I had already once tried changing the plymouth theme without any success
<ray_> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-do-you-change-the-boot-splash-screen-image-for-10-04-lucid-lynx.html
<ray_> Before I didn't realize that the menus can be changed as well till today. Like I said I tried this guide before however I didn't know the menu could be changed till I tried it today. I just thought the them tab was just for the theme within the desktop and not the login menu
<ray_> Anyhow, I want the purple plymouth theme changed to black with Ubuntu and the Ubuntu Logo still there
<ray_> Maybe I should try google instead
<ray_> bye
<george12345> ÎÎ¹,everyone knowns about raid and mdadm?
<george12345> please i need help,i am to the job and break the raid5
<george12345> from the file server
<coz_> hey all
<coz_>  hey guys
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-05
<troy_s> Greetings all.
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-06
<palhmbs> hey guys - is there anything on linux that will make a simple picture morphing animation?
<palhmbs> I saw something called XMRM, but it's sooo old and not available anymore.....
<highvoltage> I did an apt-cache search and there's xmorph, not sure how good it is though
<palhmbs> highvoltage, sounds promising, I'll try anything - I'm trying to use Gimp morphing feature, but I've got warnings in the dev gimp edition - so I'll have to try the plain vanilla to see if it does what I want.
<palhmbs> I could just build an gif animation with one layer fading-in
<mi-key> hey everyone, i need some help as beginer in artwork
<coz_> hey guys
<coz_> hey all
<coz_> so guys,, anything new?? :)
<vish> coz_: hey.. i guess just us boring folks in here ;)
<coz_> :)
<coz_> well... at least at this point.. if i contribute any graphics I think I should go with debian ,, since there is no corporate influence or control on that side of things and eventually ,,,if not branded specifically "debian"  it might make it into ubuntu since they really dont want to stray too far from  "daddy" although,, in all honesty,, this is my "daily" thought :)
<vish> coz_: good choice :)
<coz_> vish,  unless you have a better idea ,, it seems i have been banging my head against the canonical "brick wall" since 2005..and much of that time was because of my own ignorance about  ubuntu / contributing  ,,,
<thorwil> coz_: hmm, how can i tell you without seeming caustic ... there was not much banging to see
<coz_> thorwil,  doesnt sound caustic from this end... as I said it was mainly my ingorance
<thorwil> vish: did anything interesting happen on the list, lately?
<vish> thorwil: nah, nothing.. just that one rAX seemed interested in doing pictograms
<thorwil> coz_: sounds like me like complaining about the futility of things you didn't actually do, anyway. so why worry? what you will do now and in future, that's what to think about
 * vish trying to find the new widget factory!!!
<vish> where the hell did it go :s
<vish> zniavre: hi.. where is the new widget factory you download from?
<vish> coz_: just find something you are interested in doing.. dont bother if it amounts to anything, that way you dont get disappointed ;)
<coz_> vish,  yes you are wise  AND evil :)
<vish> ;)
<vish> phew! yay! found it!!
<vish> gah! not it!
<vish> phew! *now* i found it ;p
<vish> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/The+Unofficial+Widget+Factory+%28DEB%29?content=84209
<vish>  <thorwil> vish: did anything interesting happen on the list, lately? !!!
<vish> thorwil: hehe! what did you expect would happen, once you left everything will magically be all productive ;p
<thorwil> vish: heh, i asked for *interesting*, not *positive* or even *productive*
<vish> ha!
<thorwil> gnah, kickstarter.com is limited to the USA, for project starters
<thorwil> anyone here got experience with pledgie.com?
<coz_> thorwil,  I know nothing about it
<vish> thorwil: doctormo was recently looking into these kickstarter and similar sites.. try poking
<vish> him
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-02-28
<etneg> hi
<etneg> whoever is awake
<directhex> is the original layered source for the lucid wallpaper available?
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-03-01
<fograven> Hi all
<dudstep9_> Hey, all. I was wondering on entering an entry for the 12.04 LTS countdown banner contest, but I can't seem to figure out how I can upload a submission to the submissions page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/PreciseCountdownBanner. Does anyone know how? Thank you in advance.
<iainfarrell> hey dudstep9_ I think you have to host your images or attach them to the wiki page
<iainfarrell> have you edited the wiki before?
<dudstep9_> No, I haven't. And I'm pretty much clueless on how to. Sorry for being a newbie.
<iainfarrell> No worries :)
<iainfarrell> so do you have a login for launchpad first of all?
<iainfarrell> dudstep9_: you'll need to start by making a launcpad.net user accounr
<iainfarrell> *account
<dudstep9_> I've created an account via the login via the login option at the top. I'm not quite sure if it is a launchpad account. i'll try that out too. :)
<iainfarrell> ah ok
<iainfarrell> no that'll be the same I think :)
<iainfarrell> once you're signed in
<iainfarrell> you'll see an edit link at the top of the page I think
<dudstep9_> I've created an account. Let me try now.
<iainfarrell> cool
<iainfarrell> then it's wiki markup
<iainfarrell> which is a whole other pain ;)
<dudstep9_> The edit button continues to elude me. :)
<iainfarrell> dudstep9_: ok let me have a look :)
<iainfarrell> ahh
<iainfarrell> the page has been locked
<iainfarrell> see where it says immutable
<iainfarrell> ?
<iainfarrell> ahh hang on
<iainfarrell> I've logged in and can edit it now
<iainfarrell> it's a link top left
<iainfarrell> under where it says Ubuntu wiki
<dudstep9_> Strange. All I've got are  : Immutable Page   |  Info  |   Subscribe   |  Attachments    |   (a drop down list)  |   Logout  |   Help
<iainfarrell> that is strange
<iainfarrell> I may have more edit rights than you ...
