#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-29
<dogmatic69> is it possible to symlink files across pc's
<dogmatic69> eg: symlink my .bash to a server, or the other way round
<bigcalm> Yes
<dogmatic69> is it ok to do something like that?
<bigcalm> If it's mounted via CIFS or other share
<dogmatic69> not a security issue or anything?
<dutchie> it could get a little interesting if the network isn't working
<dogmatic69> well i just want to add colors to the shell so its nothing important, from my pc to the server would be fine
<dogmatic69> just figured it would be easier to maintain one file
<bigcalm> Why would you want to symlink it? A copy isn't that hard to do :)
<dogmatic69> hmm
<dogmatic69> i could just make a git repo and then use git
<dogmatic69> have like ~/stuff_repo and symlink that to ~/
<dogmatic69> then i can just git pull the changes
<BigRedS__> dogmatic69: you could use the same home directory on both machines? probably easier and quicker in practice
<dogmatic69> rly
<BigRedS__> and not hard to configure, assuming similar software versions and identical (or controllable) UIDs
<dogmatic69> bot the exact same os
<dogmatic69> dont know about uid though
<BigRedS__> yeah, just export one /home via NFS and mount it on the other one at /home
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<BigRedS__> you could adjust the UID on one to match the other generally
<dogmatic69> how you get the uid
<BigRedS__> personally, I'd    grep <username> /etc/passwd    but there's probably an actual command to do it
<dogmatic69> now that you mention it i think there was something in linux format about that
<BigRedS__> there's probably sevral howtos on the net
<dogmatic69> pfsh... i think i just busted my pc
<BigRedS__> urk. what's it done?
<dutchie> dogmatic69: id -u
<dogmatic69> changed the host name, and now cant open nautulis with root
<dogmatic69> No protocol specified
<dogmatic69> Could not parse arguments: Cannot open display:
<dogmatic69> cool they are both the same
<BigRedS__> opening nautilus with root?
<dogmatic69> BigRedS__: ye :/
<dogmatic69> sometimes i wanna use a proper editor to edit files
<dogmatic69> dont know my way around nano/vi really
<dutchie> nano is easy
<dogmatic69> running nautilus as my user i get _IceTransSocketUNIXConnect: Cannot connect to non-local host dogmatic69-desktop
<dogmatic69> dogmatic69-desktop is the old host name
<dogmatic69> where can i find that?
<dogmatic69> find /etc -type f -exec grep dogmatic69-desktop {} \; shows nothing
<dutchie> dogmatic69: hve you rebooted or anything after changing hostname?
<dogmatic69> no
<dogmatic69> i am worried that ive not done everything and it wont boot
<dutchie> it's probably old processes remembering from before the change then
<dogmatic69> i tried stop hostname
<dogmatic69> start hostname
<dogmatic69> but get start: Rejected send message, 1 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.78" (uid=1000 pid=16616 comm="start) interface="com.ubuntu.Upstart0_6.Job" member="Start" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination="com.ubuntu.Upstart" (uid=0 pid=1 comm="/sbin/init"))
<dutchie> dogmatic69: see if you can burn a live cd, then reboot
<dutchie> if it doesn't boot, you can fix it from the live cd
<dogmatic69> ye i got one
<dogmatic69> also another pc
<dogmatic69> but the pain :/
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> morning
 * daubers goes to buy some electric then to potter to work
<domjohnson> Hello
<domjohnson> My school is off!
<MichealH> Mine too
<MichealH> 6 inches of snow here! And still snowing... And thundering... :S
<domjohnson> About the same here :)
<domjohnson> About 10 inches at my Mum's
<ajedwards> where are you located?
<ajedwards> we have very little lying snow but -8 outside
<AlanBell> my car says it is -5 here
<ajedwards> -4 in Lichfield, feels like -8... I've abandoned my kitchen as it's so cold my fridge doesn't have to work...
<awilkins> Snow. Motorway. Doomed.
<ajedwards> agreed
<TheOpenSourcerer> No snow here. :-|
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not sure if I should be happy or sad about it. 1/2 of me would quite like it, 1/2 of me wouldn't.
<awilkins> Since I can work at home, I don't mind as long as the cupboards are not bare.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone in London fancying Pizza Express for lunch - here's a 50% off the bill voucher code: http://clicks.pizzaexpress.com/DC/ctr.aspx?6C6164=393234333336&736272=$$EN8Mo1fG9LxYEEE&747970=7478&66=30
<ajedwards> is it a london only deal?
<ajedwards> ah i see (read it), fair play
<DJones> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<awilkins> Anyone with coffee on the M62 eastbound? :-(
 * DJones would deliver, but I'm just getting warm in the office
<daubers> o/
<daubers> -4 around reading this morning
<awilkins> It's just getting up to 0 degrees here.
<DJones> awilkins: Wherabouts on the M62 are you?
<awilkins> Dewsbury-ish
<DJones> Ah, that's the first time I'd say that Dewsbury has ever been "tropical" in comparison to the rest of the country
<awilkins> Big frosty flakes now, proper tongue-catching snow.
<domjohnson> ajedwards - just got your message - sorry! - I'm in Newcastle
 * czajkowski is in London tomorrow 
<hoover_> good morning
<daubers> czajkowski: Poor you
<awilkins> Oh great, the traffic is because iidjits are rubbernecking. That makes me soooo happy. (Grrr)
<czajkowski> daubers: twice this week in fact
<czajkowski> looking forward to getting very lost
<daubers> czajkowski: It will be cold and smelly, be warned
<czajkowski> heh
<DJones> Bugger, its snowing in Altrincham
<jpds> czajkowski: There's a map at every bus stop.
<MooDoo> hello all
<czajkowski> jpds: indeed
<czajkowski> jpds: I'll be in canonical on Thursday :)
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski 
<awilkins> /me applied for a job (with Canonical) but hasn't heard and is thus crap.
<popey> morning
<popey> awilkins: this is no unusual
<wintellect> wow "reception" class schooling is "with it" - my 4 year old had to log into a class forum and post a comment!
<awilkins> oh yes, understood from job page saying "no heary, no gettyjob", not upset or anything, at least I'm still employed.
<czajkowski> MooDoo: oi oi
<awilkins> /me walks to work now
<czajkowski> popey: ello ello , how's you?
<popey> meh
<MooDoo> popey, wassup?
<bigcalm> Brrr morning all :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm, morning
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<popey> MooDoo: having a bad month
<daubers> popey: Good news! Less than 2 days of this month left :)
<MooDoo> popey, that's not good :( work?  nothing family related i hop
<popey> daubers: yeah, hoping that the flip of a calendar page fixes it all :)
<popey> MooDoo: a long boring story
<daubers> popey: I find pay day fixes most things (being tomorrow and all)
 * popey notes he's self employed
<bigcalm> You are? I thought you worked in an office
<daubers> popey: Ah, ok. I know some self emplotyed people that give themselves a monthly pay day in order to stop them spending company money on frivoulous things and assumed everyone did that. My survey group was obviously too small :)
<popey> bigcalm: i am self employed and work in an office, yes :)
<popey> daubers: I do that :)
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<popey> although I still spend money on frivoulous things too :)
<bigcalm> Ah, you're a contract worker?
<popey> yes
<screen-x> morning :)
<popey> RIP Leslie Nielsen btw
<bigcalm> Oh no :(
<directhex> surely not?
<bigcalm> Don't call me Shirly
<MooDoo> there is something happening in the cockpit......what's that?......well it's the thing at the front of the plane......
<daubers> popey: Ah :)
 * popey points everyone to http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080339/quotes
 * bigcalm shall watch Airplane! tonight
<daubers> I picked the wrong week to give up coffee.
<MooDoo> daubers, silly :D
<kazade> morning all
<kazade> it's FREEZING
<MooDoo> kazade, morning, no it's not, it's only -1 :)
<kazade> brrrr my stupid air-con takes about 3 hours to heat up :/
<daubers> kazade: Depends on the air pressure in the local area
<bigcalm> Ooo, it's snowing :)
<daubers> kazade: Also depends on the definition of "it" being a metasyntactic variable, we can't ascertain the referred to mediums freezing point without more clarification
 * daubers wonders if it will ever get cold enough in the UK for the nitrogen in the air to start liquifying
 * kazade thinks daubers should have a coffee
<jpds> daubers: No.
<daubers> kazade: I think the opposite
 * bigcalm hugs the radiator
<screen-x> daubers: \o/ for caffeine free, have a peppermint tea :)
<daubers> screen-x: Pepperming tea makes me sleepy
<daubers> s/Pepperming/peppermint
<daubers> screen-x: Roiboos is quite nice
<screen-x> daubers: liquorice infusions are also nice :)
<daubers> Ewwwwww
<daubers> liquorice is evil
<bigcalm> For constipation have a peppermint tea
<daubers> Did sherbert dib dabs teach you nothing!
<bigcalm> Liquorice, yum
<MooDoo> I've just had a gingerbread latte :)
<MooDoo> wanted cinnamon but they don't do it at costa
<screen-x> Does peppermint have addictive properties? I seem to be drinking a lot of it at the moment..
<screen-x> MooDoo: 2.3 already?
<MooDoo> screen-x, huh?
<screen-x> MooDoo: android reference
<MooDoo> screen-x, ah getchya....2.3 codename gingerbread :D
<daubers> Ok, python question: Is it possible to effectivley "nice" a spawned python thread?
<screen-x> daubers: I don't know, but I have had loads of really useful help from the people in #python.
<screen-x> all ~700 of them.
<llewro> hi
<MooDoo> hi
<llewro> I'm thinking about getting into LAMP development and I've installed the components - MySQL, Apache2, PHP - but am now wondering whether or not I should try PostGreSQL too?
<llewro> is it possible to run both PostGreSQL and MySQL side by side?
<screen-x> llewro: yep
<awilkins> llewro, It is most possible
<llewro> cool, awilkins
<screen-x> llewro: are you planning on developing websites from the ground up? or are you going to use one of the many frameworks? Frameworks tend to favour certain databases.
<llewro> I'm planning on working from scratch
<llewro> I find frameworks confusing really.
<llewro> I used to do asp development, but didn't want to work in Visual Studio because of its peculiarities, so don't fancy Joomla etc either
<llewro> installing both database servers and running them in parallel won't affect scripting or Apache2?
<gord> start with the basics, learn how to print out "hello world" before worrying about frameworks :)
<bigcalm> MySQL is friendlier
<gord> or databases
<gord> infact ignore databases entirely until you can do something really neat in php
<awilkins> MySQL is friendlier. PostgreSQL is enterprisier
<screen-x> awilkins: great adjective
<bigcalm> llewro: having both databases will not hinder the web server
<llewro> gord, what would be something 'neat' in php?
<gord> llewro, iruno,  guess you'll show us in a few days after you have coded it! :)
<bigcalm> :D
<gord> (cough, remake cowsay in php)
<bigcalm> llewro: how long have you been coding for?
<bigcalm> gord: good mini project
<screen-x> cowsay :)
<bigcalm> llewro: do as gord suggests and make a cowsay clone
<bigcalm> You can run PHP from the CLI as well as from a web server
<llewro> not too long, I had to design a property website a couple of years ago, so I did it using asp and access
 * bigcalm shudders
<gord> then i can run cowsay.gordallott.com and do things like http://cowsay.gordallott.com/mooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
<bigcalm> gord: snappy url
<llewro> not too long, I had to design a property website a couple of years ago, so I did it using asp and access)
<bigcalm> Humf, .ay isn't a current TLD
<llewro> after that, I spent some spare time messing around with asp and tried out scripting more...
<bigcalm> Well, you'll be able to read code. That's a start
<llewro> tbh, I have a project I want to complete, I've got the data modelling done, I've got to the stage where I know what tables I'll be needing (12 in all), what sections I want web-enabled, how I want it maintained ..
<llewro> I could do the databse in Access and go with classic asp, but I want to learn something more powerful and current.
<bigcalm> llewro: start small. Write a cowsay clone :)
<Oli```> llewro: DJANGO!!!!
<Oli```> 1
<bigcalm> Ug
<directhex> asp3? really?
<directhex> it's 2010!
<llewro> as I find IDEs complicated and scripting isn't really that difficult, I thought php-mysql-apache :
<awilkins> Classic ASP. Urrgh.
<llewro> :)*
<AlanBell> llewro: http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk was a nice little php project
<directhex> awilkins: i was doing that at school... in the '90s.
<llewro> directhex, I needed something I could get immediate results in.
<directhex> ASP is as badly designed as PHP, but with none of the extensibility
<llewro> I know Access/SQL, I didn't know MSSQL server or the whole area of dbms...
<llewro> so I went with what works
<llewro> OOPS
<llewro> getting used to xchat
<Oli```> llewro: Django (with a couple of lines) will automatically give you an admin area for all your "models" (tables)
<llewro> you can tell I only recently moved to Ubuntu
<Oli```> By the way, did I mention Django?
<directhex> llewro: yeah, but jet databases are kinda... well, single-user. a website should handle more than one user at once
<llewro> ok, I'll have a look at Django
 * Oli``` ran a 30-concurrent-user Access-backend ASP website in the late 90s
<llewro> alanBell, I have a project already - it's because of this, I'm giving PHP ago.
<directhex> i'd say PHP was a reasonably direct route from ASP. it's a closer fit than ASP.NET anyway
<AlanBell> llewro: if you are looking at django you need to use "south" as well because schema changes are a complete pain without it
<llewro> hmm, that's what I was afraid of with the frameworks business... reading up on things that are not going to forward my immediate objective..
<llewro> Ok, so if I create the db in PostGreSQL, as far as I'm aware, it will be more capable of servicing large and generic searches, better than MySQL
<llewro> I read that it is much faster at serving lots of simple queries, I think.
<llewro> which is why I'm thinking of using it for the db... which is why I'm here asking about potential hazards of installing it and configuring Apache2 & PHP to work with it.
<directhex> llewro: postgre is harder to administer than my
<screen-x> AlanBell: Thanks for the mention of south, looks very useful.
<llewro> directhex, there's documentation online to cover most administration issues though?
<directhex> sure
<directhex> just sayin'
<llewro> I don't mind the difficulty, so long as it won't result in a broken web-app once the userbase increases into the thousands ...
<llewro> I need to create a working prototype, for business purposes
<llewro> after that, the development side will be of no interest to me, just employ a developer :D
<llewro> anyway, thanks all :)
 * awilkins contemplates posting the link to the "MongoDB is web scale" amusing video. Then just does it. http://nosql.mypopescu.com/post/1016320617/mongodb-is-web-scale
<bigcalm> awilkins: haha
<awilkins> Ahem, yes ; not safe for work or children (sorry)
<jpds> awilkins: That was from August. :>
<ajedwards> for every linux user http://www.edinburghzoo.org.uk/EZPenguinCam.html
<screen-x> penguins :)
<awilkins> jpds, And yet it's still funny every time I see it :0
<bigcalm> The distro took its name from Tux?
<jpds> awilkins: http://nigel.mcnie.name/blog/mysql-is-a-database
 * bigcalm likes the pixies
<jpds> bigcalm: They were an OK band.
<bigcalm> ....
<hoover_> hello biggie
<bigcalm> Hi hoovie
 * popey looks at his own nick and hopes nobody attempts to shorten it
<awilkins> Lengthen it. (poopey)
<hoover_> Shame there's no more Del Amitri, either 8(
<DJones> You can still get Del Monte in the shops though :)
<isaac> quit
<isaac> exit
<screen-x> popeye: your nick is best lengthened ;-)
<nigelb> PopeyeTheSailorMan
<screen-x> \o/ Sailing
<nigelb> oooh, PopeyThePodcastMan
<nigelb> popey: ^^
<domjohnson> Hello
<hoover_> heh
<hoover_> I missed their last concert in Germany because of a holiday in greece
<bigcalm> directhex: cheers mukka :D
<bigcalm> 2.3MB/s
 * bigcalm hugs Steam
 * AlanBell is a bit cold
<MooDoo> AlanBell, it's only -1 what's up with you ;)
<popey> hello Stuart
<AlanBell> MooDoo: my office would make a brass monkey feel distinctly uncomfortable
<awilkins> Health and safety says if it drops below a certain mark you can go home
<awilkins> Bossman has just told me to stop working on fixing the egregious RAM consumption of The Project of Doom. Hooray, now it's even more Doomed.
<gord> awilkins... but.. i work from home!
<awilkins> gord, Turn up the radiator and claim tax relief on the fuel :-)
<MooDoo> AlanBell, eeeeeek
<Craig_Dem> I enjoy these forced breaks from school.
<Craig_Dem> We need them more often.
<AlanBell> awilkins: I am home!
<gord> radiators are back on, the fuel bill can be high, thats a problem for future gord. right now present gord needs to be warm!
<popey> http://www.fit-pc.com/web/fit-pc2/fit-pc2i-specifications/
<popey> interesting device
<gord> do we know if the intel hardware acceleration stuff works on linux?
<awilkins> The Intel stuff ought to, they are some of the more pleasant OSS driver contributors, no?
<AlanBell> gord: is this some specific bit of hardware you mean?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: except for Poulsbo/GMA500
<awilkins> Waah.
<awilkins> Would make a fabulous MythTV slave, that would
<awilkins> Probably even a good server, as long as you're not a big transcoder (I'm not)
<czajkowski> afternoon
<gord> AlanBell, no, pretty much all graphics chips made in the last 10 years or so have had video acceleration, its just that the last thing i heard of from intel was xvmc which is great at decoding mpeg2 but can't really do anything else.
<gord> ie: i don't think there is an api for the later techs intel is using
<AlanBell> yeah, I thought you were not asking the question everyone thought you were asking!
<AlanBell> so you are asking about hardware video decoding? not OpenGL or anything like that?
<gord> right
<gord> like nvidia's vdpau
<directhex> viddy-pow!
<MooDoo> didn't vdpau sing that song china in your hands?
<MooDoo> lol
<AlanBell> !info xorg-video-intel
<lubotu3> Package xorg-video-intel does not exist in maverick
<AlanBell> !info xserver-xorg-video-intel
<lubotu3> xserver-xorg-video-intel (source: xserver-xorg-video-intel): X.Org X server -- Intel i8xx, i9xx display driver. In component main, is optional. Version 2:2.12.0-1ubuntu5.1 (maverick), package size 244 kB, installed size 988 kB (Only available for amd64 hurd-i386 i386 kfreebsd-i386 kfreebsd-amd64 netbsd-i386)
<AlanBell> http://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-install-latest-intel-driver-2.12-on-ubuntu-10.04-lucid-lynx looks like it should be there
<X3N> Does anyone know how in JavaScript var cat[5] = New Boolean (0); would be achieved ?
<dogmatic69> try it...
<dogmatic69> var something = false;
<awilkins> Oh joy, the snow commenceth here in Leeds
<X3N> I did try it, doesn't understand that it should be an array as there is no new Array ()
<dogmatic69> awilkins: lucky
<awilkins> Lucky? I live near Wigan!!!!
<dogmatic69> X3N: so make the array first
<dogmatic69> awilkins: ah
<MartijnVdS> X3N: var foo = [false];
<awilkins> You can't do var cat[5] - there is no type "array of five"
<X3N> then I would have to assign each instance in the array as a boolean type
<dogmatic69> im in burms, should be tonight, tomorrow and wed
<MartijnVdS> X3N: or var foo = new Array(5); foo[0] = false;
<MartijnVdS> or foo.push(false);
<dogmatic69> var something = new Array(); something[5] = false
<X3N> no, because it's not a boolean type
<MartijnVdS> X3N: Javascript doesn't really "do" types
<MartijnVdS> X3N: sure it respects them, but it doesn't enforce
 * awilkins detests Javascript for this amongst other reasons
<X3N> I don't mind about enforcing, I mind about being able to manipulate a type in the normal way
<awilkins> Along with VBScript.
<MartijnVdS> X3N: it's an array.. you manipulate it like an array
<MartijnVdS> X3N: the elements are booleans, you handle them as  booleans
<awilkins> Not especially keen on Python either, to be honest, but I like it about a bajillion times more than VBScript.
<X3N> er array's aren't a type, they're a structure of types, which is what I'm asking how to do
<MartijnVdS> X3N: not in javascript :)
<X3N> so there is no way to do boolean cat[3]
<MartijnVdS> X3N: you can say "cat[3] = new Boolean()"
<X3N> without looping through the array setting the type
<MartijnVdS> you're not "setting the type", you're assigning a value to the element
<MartijnVdS> there's no such thing as types (like Java has) in that way
<X3N> that doesn't work
<MartijnVdS> you can say "var foo = new Array(); foo = new Boolean();" and it won't break
<X3N> ah, that sounds like it might work
<MartijnVdS> it won't :)
<MartijnVdS> it'll create a variable named "foo" that's an empty array
<MartijnVdS> then it'll overwrite the array, create a new boolean and assign it to "foo"
<X3N> faailll
<MartijnVdS> it's how the language works
<MartijnVdS> it's all very logical :)
<czajkowski> just booked flights home for xmas  will be missing the Ubuntu UK Christmas party!
<AlanBell> oh noes]
<czajkowski> *shrugs* cannot be helped
<czajkowski> if I wait till the 22nd prices go up y about 160
<MartijnVdS> pounds or euros? :)
<czajkowski> pounds
<czajkowski> which is even worse
<AlanBell> so for anyone holding off putting their name down for fear that czajkowski would be there . . . http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/568/detail/
<MooDoo> czajkowski, awww and i wanted to so hug you :p
<czajkowski> AlanBell: :s
<daubers> \o/ I love it when you spend a month building assorted pieces of a program, and then when you make the glue bit it all works seemlessly
<daubers> Also, if czajkowski Isn't going to be there.... then there'll be more cake for me!
<czajkowski> daubers: no love either buddy!
 * czajkowski pours ice cold water on daubers and AlanBell meanies!
 * AlanBell hugs czajkowski 
<daubers> czajkowski: You'll get cake next time
<daubers> The question is, do I bake a cake or buy a cake...
<screen-x> daubers: yay for working programs :)
<daubers> gah, I hate the sound of failed raids in the afternoon
<MartijnVdS> RAIDs or WoW?
<screen-x> daubers: how did you fix your threading issue?
<daubers> screen-x: reniced the whole program in it's init script
<daubers> MartijnVdS: RAIDs
<daubers> MartijnVdS: building a new raid 6 on brand new disks and have a disk failure
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I have some coworkers that hate the sound of failed WoW raids 8-)
<screen-x> daubers: WD?
<daubers> screen-x: Toshiba I think.... 1TB 2.5" drives though, so known to be a bit problematic
<screen-x> I didn't know you get 1TB in 2.5"...
<daubers> screen-x: They're quite hard to get hold of
<daubers> screen-x: They where available then they where all pulled, then they where, then they where pulled. Going through a phase of being able to get them now
<daubers> screen-x: Similar to this http://www.shop.bt.com/products/toshiba-1tb-2-5--5400-8mb-sata300-7366.html
<screen-x> weird, I wouldn't have thought of BT as a components supplier. Quite cheap for a 2.5" disk.
<daubers> screen-x: They own dabs
<screen-x> Heh, that was 4 years ago, and I didn't notice.
<oly> anyone know a way to do a memory check while in ubuntu ?
<MartijnVdS> while _in_ Ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> no ide
<MartijnVdS> a
<MartijnVdS> but there's always memtest in the boot menu
<screen-x> Probably because the only bt product I've been interested in for years is infinity..
<oly> yeah, as in grub does not have the option because i am using wubi
<oly> and i am also using the machine so dont have time to sit and wait for it to complete
<oly> but the machine keeps randomly locking up
<MartijnVdS> but it's in the boot menu so it can be sure to check all memory
<MartijnVdS> instead of being limited by what  the kernel thinks is in use
<oly> its not actually in the boot menu
<X3N> MartijnVdS: looks like i can do var cats = [new Boolean(0), new Boolean(0), new Boolean(0)]
<oly> not with wubi for some reason
<daubers> oly: I don't think you can run it while using the system, as it needs to access all the available memory and the system will be using some
<MartijnVdS> X3N: sure, but that's the same as "var cats = [false, false, false];" right?
<MartijnVdS> X3N: I mean.. why the objects when simple values will do :)
 * screen-x writes strings to X3N's array
<X3N> dunno
<oly> i thought that may be the case
<oly> but dont think work would be to impressed if i sit there watching it instead of working :p
<MartijnVdS> set it to scan overvnight
<MartijnVdS> overnight*
<MattJ> X3N: Get yourself a Javascript tutorial or book :)
<MartijnVdS> MattJ++
<X3N> I have, It's proping up my monitor
<MattJ> Problem found then :)
<X3N> it would cause more of a problem to me if my monitor wasn't propped up ;)
<MattJ> "Array" is a type of object in Javascript, they can contain any number of elements (they grow automatically) and each element can be of any type
<MattJ> if you access an element that hasn't been set then you get "undefined"
<MattJ> which is equivalent to false or null in most expressions
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a language or  two I know
<MartijnVdS> (Perl, Python)
<X3N> yeah, I get that, it was type assignment of elements in an array
<MattJ> Plus using false would be more efficient than new Boolean(0)
<gpd> don't suppose anyone works in a datacentre / comms room?
<MartijnVdS> gpd: not as such.. but why? :)
<directhex> gpd: why?
<Azelphur> Hmm, according to the specs for my mobo, it says it can support RAID 0+1, yet I only see 2 SATA Ports
<Azelphur> it's a P5VD1-X, what is this madness? D:
<diplo> maybe it supports it if you use a sata card ?
<Azelphur> maybe
<screen-x> Azelphur: does it support 0 or 1, rather than 0+1?
<Azelphur> "RAID SupportRAID 0 â¢ RAID 1 â¢ RAID 0+1 â¢ JBOD Support"
<awilkins> Maybe it's RAID 1+0
<Azelphur> awilkins: but that still requires 4 hds?
<awilkins> Azelphur, Wikipedia says it can do 2. But I don't see the advantage over RAID 0 then.
<Azelphur> heh I'm just interested in plugging the new 2TB Drive I just bought in :p
<Azelphur> I suppose I need a cheap/simple card to provide me with extra sata ports, I don't want raid or anything
<awilkins> Or a USB caddy
<Azelphur> yea but that's more expensive and adds more boxes outside the case
<awilkins> 'spose
<screen-x> Azelphur: careful with cheap pci sata cards, I bought one of those, and it was horrendously buggy, everytime I sha1sumd a good disk, I got a different result :(
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> screen-x: got a recommendation?
<screen-x> Azelphur: nope, In the end I got a new mobo that had sata support..
<Azelphur> haha
<screen-x> I guess the recommendation is don't buy the cheapest..
<Azelphur> I suppose for now I'll sling it in USB because I might be getting a new box to replace that one in janurary :p
<Azelphur> so we'll see what happens :D
<awilkins> I have the inverse... my chipset doesn't seem to like drives on eSATA cables
<awilkins> I'm contemplating getting a SATA card just to get faster drive performance
<awilkins> Or maybe I should just trash my Windows install again and plunk the 1.5TB drive INSIDE to replace the 500GB one.
<popey> I had a problem with the sata port on the acer revo :(
<awilkins> Having a home folder on a 120GB partition is surprisingly tight for space on the projects I'm on (which have resource folders with 1.5GB of text in that they then proceed to shove into a jar and then unpack in working folders.
<popey> you cant use a port multiplier on them :(
<screen-x> popey: do they have to be explicitly supported by the sata controller?
 * Azelphur partitions his new 2TB HDD :p
<popey> yes
<popey> and the el-cheapo nv one doesnt
<screen-x> :( I hoped it was part of the esata spec.
<Azelphur> gotta love motivating my mum to get a new telly :p
<ball> Azelphur: Is her old one broken?
<daubers> If someone buys my car today I may buy myself a shiny telle
<popey> http://vimeo.com/12572212
<popey> cute! ^^
<Azelphur> we still have some 1970's sony trinitron, she keeps bugging me because the HTPC is slow, so I upgraded the graphics card to get some VDPAU going on. Only working S-Video port is on the front of the telly :D
<Azelphur> so 3 wires all across the front of the telly, perfect motivation :D
<popey> cant use scart in the back?
<screen-x> popey: ssshh
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> popey: thats broken too
<daubers> or it will be in 5 minutes ....
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/2010-06-14%2001.37.49.jpg old 1970's monster TV will eat you xD
<Azelphur> I'm not even joking, that TV is older than I am
<popey> i have a telly thats probably older than you
<popey> most reliable telly I have ever owned
<popey> Sony Trinitron
<Azelphur> popey: that is a sony trinitron lol
<gpd> I'm working with a spin-out company that has a network cable monitoring system in development. looking for trial sites ... long shot but thought i'd try...
<gpd> anyway -- lovely weather  -= later
<ball> I think my "network cable monitoring system" is ping ;-)
<ball> popey: Now I wish I had Ubuntu cookies to dip in my tea.
<ball> After Thanksgiving dinner, my brother-in-law whipped out his netbook and my niece fetched hers.  I turned my back for five minutes and by the time I got back they'd reformatted hers with Ubuntu Netbook Edition. :-)
<ball> ...then at work yesterday another member of staff asked me to bring in the Ubuntu DVD so that he could wipe his laptop.
<ball> People seem very receptive to it.
<czajkowski> /c/c
<lazarus_> im messing with a virtualbox install of zentyal
<popey> thats ebox as-was isnt it lazarus_ ?
<lazarus_> popey: yea im a total linux server noob soo i thought id give it a go
<dutchie> who manages the planet nowadays?
<jpds> dutchie: The governments of the world?
<dutchie> hohoho
<screen-x> dutchie: practising for holiday work?
<dutchie> screen-x: eh?
<jpds> screen-x: I think we've overtrolled him.
<popey> dutchie: me, X3N and Daviey
<dutchie> i think my feed url is broken
<dutchie> yeah, it should be /blog/feeds/rss/ now
<popey> edit the wiki
<dutchie> i did, ages ago
<lazarus_> Mmmm VomitOverIP
<popey> dutchie: fixed, sorry about that
<dutchie> popey: cheers
<popey> np
<X3N> popey: don't think anyone has added the last update either
 * popey does that
<popey> X3N: not very ubuntu related
<X3N> yeah, though I don't think we ever came up with a policy
<X3N> well, that was a whole other kettle of fish
<kazade> ok, who want's to beta test my game?
<kazade> you need to be running 64bit..
 * kazade hasn't packaged it yet
<dutchie> i was about to volunteer, then you said 64 bit
<bigcalm> I would if my laptop were switched on
<X3N> can't you release the source?
<kazade> I plan to at some point
<kazade> but not yet
<popey> kazade: yup
<kazade> popey, http://bit.ly/ubbbeta
<popey> kazade: i have 64-bit Ubuntu at home
<kazade> you may need to install SDL and SDL_mixer
<popey> cant test till later
<kazade> ok
<dutchie> hmm, my loadavg is up to 8.44 and i am not doing anything
<popey> where's the bug tracker?
<popey> :)
<kazade> my email address :p
<kazade> kazade@gmail.com
<dutchie> maybe a minecraft server is not necessary
<kazade> popey, space is fire, left/right arrows move
<kazade> 'p' pauses
<bigcalm> Just tried to load ,omecraft
 * popey nudges bigcalms right hand to the left by one key
<directhex> kazade: it works
<kazade> woo
<kazade> :D
 * bigcalm chuckles
<bigcalm> Last point I had saved was during a sand cave-in I was under
<bigcalm> But didn't remember until afterwards. Was wondering why I just died
<dutchie> silly bigcalm, mining upwards
<bigcalm> dutchie: I do it all the time, just hadn't been directly beneath a sand roof at the time
<dutchie> now you know why you shouldn't :)
<bigcalm> Yadda yadda :P
<popey> i planted some nice bamboo last night
<popey> grows very quicky
<popey> as do trees
<czajkowski> popey: you're missing from over there --->
<popey> oo
<bigcalm> I have 2 ponds covered in ice/glass. You can't mine it iirc?
<awilkins> I must try the Minecraft updates
<diplo> I suppose i ought to try it, you all bought it ?
<awilkins> My current world is just my little island home. With secret underground tunnel to the mainland.
<diplo> directhex, what was that about free games on Twitter earlier ?
<popey> i have lots of homes spread over 3 worlds :)
<bigcalm> diplo: he was being very kind for some unknown reason :)
<diplo> Anyone here know what eddie murphy dvd was banned ?
<popey> raw
<popey> iirc
<diplo> I thought that, but you canbuy on amazon..
<diplo> Seems odd, unless it's been censored
<bigcalm> Crass and dull
<popey> i suspect it was previously banned now unbanned
<popey> its very old and unfunny these days IMO
<awilkins> Channel 4 had a "banned" season of films once. Clockwork Orange, Life of Brian, etc.
<diplo> yeah, not for me. For my chinky take away man, seeing if I can find someone who still supplies it
<diplo> life of brian was banned
<diplo> ?
 * diplo watched that recently
<awilkins> In Ireland, and other places, for sure.
<directhex> clockwork orange has never been banned
<bigcalm> It was by Kubrik
<bigcalm> He didn't want people to see his work
<directhex> kubrick withdrew it from sale
<directhex> well, except for the laserdisc
<diplo> thats what i watchd it on
<kazade> directhex, btw, try typing "bug1" during gameplay ;)
<screen-x> dutchie: interesting that you are banned from using wifi, any particular reasons for that?
<bigcalm> The Infinite Monkey Cage now on R4 :)
<dutchie> screen-x: dunno
<bigcalm> directhex: thank btw
<dutchie> there was a reason, but i've forgotten
<dutchie> stupid creeper explosions destroying my house :(
<bigcalm> dutchie: double width cobble stone
<awilkins> Build house on well-lit island with 2-deep seabed on all sides
<dutchie> well, i say destroy
<dutchie> my house is sculpted out of a hill
<bigcalm> Also, build your house in the sky
<dutchie> current project is remove all of the hill above
<popey> bigcalm: stone!
<popey> put cobble in a furnace and you get stone out, more robust than cobble
<dutchie> surprised my glass roof survived tbh
<bigcalm> Well, yes. But expensive on coal
<popey> meh, coal is abundant :)
<popey> i found a mob spawner for the first time at the weekend
<popey> very scary
<bigcalm> I wish iron was
<awilkins> They ought to have a coalpig
<awilkins> Eats grass. Poos coal.
<bigcalm> popey: I did the other day. Freaked me out and loss 2 diamon swords/picks :(
<popey> i built a water trap under it then dug out the underside of the mob spawner room, so the skeletons would spawn and fall in water :)
<awilkins> Or perhaps you could use pork fat as fuel
<popey> i have _no_ diamonds :(
<awilkins> I saw a kind of "satellite image" trick for finding diamonds
<popey> there is a nice java app for viewing the map
<awilkins> You use some kind of resource editor to generate a bitmap of diamond locations. And dig there.
<popey> yeah
<bigcalm> That's cheating
<awilkins> Only if you think it is
<bigcalm> I think it is :P
<dutchie> i have 2 dimonds \o/
<bigcalm> dutchie: please don't make a dimond hoe
<dutchie> hah
<dutchie> they are securely stored in a chest waiting for me to think of something interesting to do with them
<awilkins> Make a pair of big-assed earrings and offer them to a creeper for his eternal love.
<awilkins> Just as sane as the people who make functional CPUs
<popey> i need to build a trap for creepers
<popey> so i can get the dynamite
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> What's a good creeper trap?
<awilkins> Is that how you get dynamite? By killing creepers?
<popey> yes, they drop it
<popey> then you mix it with sand to make tnt
<awilkins> Great, monsters that pee nitroglycerine
<popey> 4 parts sand, 5 parts dynamite
<dutchie> i want to find some gold
<awilkins> Do you need the diamond pick to cut obsidian
<popey> awilkins: i think so
<awilkins> Fantastic, massive pile-up on M62, just what I needed
<awilkins> Looks like an overnight in Leeds. And mojitos.
<awilkins> Surely it should be clay
<awilkins> Dynamite is nitrogylcerine and kieslguhr
<bigcalm> awilkins: yes you do (confirming popey's unsure answer)
 * daubers hands awilkins a cake with some big red sparkly candles
 * daubers hides behind a big rock
<bigcalm> I've got some gold. What's it good for?
<awilkins> Gold tools : flashy, but pointless.
<awilkins> (well, after a couple of strokes anyway)
<screen-x> bigcalm: absolutely-nothing
<bigcalm> Huh, say it again
 * awilkins leaves to enter a world of cold and pain.
<dogmatic69> running 10.10 x64 and a few days ago flash died, i cant use youtube and other sites now
<dogmatic69> anyone know what i can check for issues?
<screen-x> dogmatic69: could try reinstalling adobe-flashplugin
<screen-x> !info adobe-flashplugin
<dogmatic69> i just uninstalled everything that says flash
<lubotu3> Package adobe-flashplugin does not exist in maverick
<screen-x> I think its in partner
<MartijnVdS> flashplugin-installer ?
<dogmatic69> reinstalled and its the same
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Josh Holland] Look, no hands! - http://www.joshh.co.uk/blog//look-no-hands/
<dogmatic69> ?
<dogmatic69> i tried the gnome one and that does nothing, firefox still says missing plugin
<MartijnVdS> whoa, unity bits in natty, I think
<MartijnVdS> unity-place-applications{a} unity-place-files{a}
<dogmatic69> and the flash one is the same as how it was, if i mouse over flash things firefox hangs, fb file upload does not work youtube does random things
<MartijnVdS> sounds like you installed one of the "alternative" flash players
<MartijnVdS> gnash or something
<dogmatic69> and firefox keeps crashing
<MartijnVdS> that's just firefox 8-)
<dogmatic69> google chrome does not work either
<dogmatic69> nor does chromium
<MartijnVdS> what kind of machine are you running this on?
<MartijnVdS> do you have little ram and no swap?
<MartijnVdS> bad ram?
<dogmatic69> quad core Q8200 intell with 8 gigs of ram
<dogmatic69> hmmm, analytics is working again
<dogmatic69> ok, now the fb picture upload is working again but opening the file dialogue makes the screen dim
<MartijnVdS> what does about:plugins say (put that in your URL  bar)
<MartijnVdS> (so instead of http://foobar.com/ type about:plugins)
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/538014/
<MartijnVdS> looks like the real flash
<MartijnVdS> Java might be crashing Firefox
<dogmatic69> thought java was disabled
<dogmatic69> is there a way to turn it off?
<diplo> evening all
<diplo> anyone seen this before ? USB-IDE caddy
<diplo> usb 1-5: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 8
<diplo> Nov 29 17:38:28 desktop kernel: [  660.686793] scsi 8:0:0:0: Device offlined - not ready after error recovery
<Guest25775> hi can anyone help me with  wine!  when i try to install an application, wine log me off ubuntu10.10??
<Guest25775> something about X11??
<MartijnVdS> Guest25775: what are you trying to install?
<MartijnVdS> Guest25775: and what kind of graphics chip + driver do you have?
<Guest25775> teamviewer.exe, i done it with 10.04 without problem since the upgrade it start to do that
<Guest25775> and some other app like Gmaker (game maker) application
<MartijnVdS> what kind of graphics card/chip do you have?
<Guest25775> i do not know??
<Guest25775> i could i find out
<MartijnVdS> Intel, AMD/Ati, nvidia?
<Guest25775> ohh my pc is AMDduron
<jacobw> Someone else has come on here with this problem recently
<Guest25775> yes there is acouple of people on the internet who have this problem with wine
<MartijnVdS> if X crashes,  that means there's a bug in your X driver
<MartijnVdS> so we need to know your chipset
<Guest25775> ok that does not sound good
<MartijnVdS> Radeon? Geforce?
<Guest25775> well the bug came with the upgrade to 10.10
<Guest25775> well i can irectify the problem
<MartijnVdS> Guest25775: can you put /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old on pastebin?
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin | Guest25775
<lubotu3> Guest25775: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Guest25775> ok but when i try to install any windows app, it log off straight and i cannot do aything but to log in again
<MartijnVdS> Guest25775: sure, that's why I ask you to upload the OLD log file :)
<Guest25775> so i cannot do any screen shot
<MartijnVdS> Guest25775: just open that file in the text editor (it's in the "applications" menu somewhere)
<MartijnVdS> Guest25775: then copy/paste to paste.ubuntu.com
<Guest25775> sorry i am a new to comand line so i need your help
<MartijnVdS> Guest25775: no command line needed!
<Guest25775> ok i find it
<Guest25775> so should i paste the following file in the text editor   /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old
<MartijnVdS> Guest25775: File -> open -> browse to /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old in "filesystem"
<Guest25775> ok i am going to the bin now hold on
<MartijnVdS> well? :)
<Guest25775> ok here it is  http://paste.ubuntu.com/538027/
<AlanBell> window 49
<AlanBell> fail
<MartijnVdS> Wow, is this an old computer, Guest25775?
<MartijnVdS> SAVAGE, haven't seen that in ages :)
<Guest25775> yes 11 years old and thanks to ubuntu it is runing like a perfect clock
<MartijnVdS> I don't know how to fix your problem, sorry
<Guest25775> ohhh  ok thank you for trying!!
 * jacobw attempts to search the IRC logs for the other person who had this problem
<jacobw> Guest25775,
<jacobw> Do you know what video driver you're using?
<Guest25775> well i have this in the old file    http://paste.ubuntu.com/538027/
<Guest25775> any advice jacobw
<jacobw> The only advice I can find online is to reinstall the nvidia drivers, but seen as you aren't using the nvidia drivers, I don't have any advice
<Guest25775> ok thank you
<jacobw> Sorry we can't help you, you might want to try asking on http://askubuntu.com/
<dutchie> AlanBell: interesting article
<dutchie> though I have not even heard of Sakai :)
<danfish> evening all
 * danfish has been left stranded by the weather
<Laney> the weather appears to have swallowed my taxi
<danfish> the weather has swallowed my airplane :(
<Laney> :'(
<nperry> would like some snow..
<danfish> supposed to fly a patient from Lisbon -> Edinburgh, then back to Londinium for me.
 * jacobw is heading out to the gym tonight
<jacobw> in the snow
<danfish> I like Lisbon, but it's peeing down and cold
<dutchie> Azelphur: which keyboard was it you were writing drivers for?
<Azelphur> dutchie: not me, ali1234 :p
<Azelphur> the Logitech G19
<dutchie> ah
<Azelphur> and other G-Series devices
<jacobw> i made a silly mistake this morning, i opened van door and put the windscreen wipers on, which pushed all the snow off the window and in to the cab :(
<Azelphur> I was working on a front end but I hit a brick wall :(
<dutchie> oh, i knew you were something to do with it
<Azelphur> hehe :)
<popey> oooo heavy snow predicted for tomorrow at popey towers!
<popey> work from home o'clock!
<jacobw> shirk from home o'clock even?
<heeed> oooo, just had heavy snow today :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/statuses/9305921503105025 :-)
<danfish> and with that joyous news deom popey and TheOpenSourcerer (noting that where they live isn't too far from Gatwick) danfish is hoping to be home by Xmas:(
<TheOpenSourcerer> hah
<popey> :)
<danfish> s/deom/from
 * danfish googles "Merry Christmass" in Portuguese
<danfish> "Feliz Natal" everyone :D
<Azelphur> I like snow
<popey> danfish: you in portugal?
<Azelphur> I live on a hill, it's funny to watch people fail
<Azelphur> At the bottom of the hill there's a park (no fence, just goes straight from the pavement to the grass in the park) it's funny to watch all the cars slide down the hill and fly straight into the park :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: That would probably be pronounced something like "felish nestelch" knowling what I do of Portuguese.
<danfish> popey: yup - went out for a medical evacuation on Saturday and am still there
<popey> you a medic?
<danfish> popey: I pretend :P
<popey> heh
<Laney> hope the patient is ok..
<jacobw> askubuntu.com is really good :)
<jacobw> i've just signed up, so much better than ubuntuforums.org
<popey> heheh
<popey> dont let the forums guys hear you say that :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - dinner time. Fish Pie and Chips ;-)
<popey> (I agree though)
<jacobw> the forums are probably better for open ended questions, like "What mail server should I use for a business with 100 employees?"
<jacobw> where as askubuntu.com is probably better for technical questions with a specific answer
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: you're probably right re the pronunciation. I like the Portugese - my hosts couldn't be more welcoming
<danfish> (though the wifi sucks)
<jpds> danfish: I once heard a remark that Portugese sounds like Spanish being spoken by a deaf person.
<danfish> jpds: It's more like spanish spoken by a Russian
<nucc1> i have a frustrating problem: can't subscribe to RSS feeds using firefox. When I click on the button in the addressbar, it runs liferea, but doesn't add the feed. I can't access the feed. anyone got any ideas?
<danfish> Laney: the patient will be fine, my marriage if I don't home soon....
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Are Open Source Contributors in Risk of Being Prosecuted for Providing Support of Terrorist Organisations? - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/are-open-source-contributors-risk-being-prosecuted-providing-support-terrorist-organisations
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Blimey, I seem to have inspired someone! - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2010/11/29/blimey-i-seem-to-have-inspired-someone/
<jacobw> have you been exorcised mgdm?
<mgdm> indeed
<andyc> hi all
<andyc> Anybody have any experience with NFS4?
<andyc> You must all be watching Rela Madrid v Barcelona
<finelytuned> evening all
<nperry> isitsnowingyet?
<Laney> yep
<diplo> evenin all
<popey> no snow here #uksnow
<Darael> (if (check-for-snow) (celebrate with-fire) (be-slightly-warmer-but-sad))
<diplo> Guys, any one have a HP Probook ?
<nperry> Just fixed my acer aspire one
<nperry> I thought I killed the screen but a bios flash fixed it
<nperry> Wish i googled it months ago
<nperry> but now gf isnt happy
<nperry> as she was going to buy me a new one for xmas :/
<nperry> Now this means once i load ubutu onto it (bios seems to have corrupted the hard drive) I can make this laptop redunant again. that has the N button missing
<suprengr> will a certain person remember tomorrow night's meeting I wonder...   ;D
<AlanBell> yes
<nucc1> trying to upgrade to 10.10 and getting an error about cyclic dependency concerning x11-common and x11-xkb-utils
<nucc1> i followed the instructions here: http://georgia.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9968622 hope i haven't shot self in the foot :p
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Natty: Off To a Great Start! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/29/natty-off-to-a-great-start/
#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-30
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Testing Natty and Unity Safely With a USB Stick - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/30/testing-natty-and-unity-safely-with-a-usb-stick/
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> \o
<UndiFineD> o/
<screen-x> monring early people :)
<UndiFineD> I cheated
<screen-x> ?
<UndiFineD> did not sleep
<screen-x> ahh
<screen-x> I'm at work!
<screen-x>  (2010-11-29 20:22:49) Darael: (if (check-for-snow) (celebrate with-fire) (be-slightly-warmer-but-sad))
<screen-x> That's a very moving lisp poem, but why would you be sad when you have snow and fire?
<screen-x> ahh I misread it, its an else clause
<UndiFineD> snow is a good insulator, keeps you warmer
<dogmatic69> UndiFineD: i also cheated :P
<nigelb> this is so confusing
<nigelb> so many channels, so many common people
 * nigelb waves to dogmatic69 
<dogmatic69> sup
<dogmatic69> you are in the uk?
<nigelb> You know I'm not, but I've got plenty of friends here (in the channel) :-)
<dogmatic69> might have established this, but lack of sleep == brain 404
<jacobw> morning campers
<dogmatic69> had about 1" of snow \o/
<nigelb> dogmatic69: heh
<nigelb> http://popey.com/webcam/ \o/
<nigelb> All hail popey
<dogmatic69> your place/
<dogmatic69> *?
<UndiFineD> popey want pizza
<nigelb> dogmatic69: That's popey's place
<nigelb> !popey
<lubotu3> popey is the UK alternative to elvis.
<dogmatic69> right
<nigelb> heh
<dogmatic69> trying to install nginx
<dogmatic69> got it displaying my php files :/
<jacobw> -1 here in Leeds :(
<dogmatic69> 0 in burms
<nigelb> no .htaccess, which is a relief, but getting thngs to work is a bit worse
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> you run it?
<nigelb> no, I've heard of people claiming its awesome
<dogmatic69> same
<nigelb> But even though I hate mod_rewrite and apache, I like .htaccess files
<dogmatic69> http://wiki.nginx.org/LikeApache-htaccess
<screen-x> I'd prefer to have all the config in one file, preferrably in /etc/apache2/sites-available
<dogmatic69> not any more
<nigelb> Oh, neat
<dogmatic69> "Stop using .htaccess. It's horrible for performance. "
<nigelb> Interesting
<nigelb> dogmatic69: Will you be blogging about the fun with nginx?
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> when i figure it out
<nigelb> heh
<dogmatic69> doing local, then slice, then blog
<nigelb> find mtechnology or something his nickname is, in #ubuntu-server
<nigelb> He always tells me about nginx
<nigelb> He could probably help if you're stuck
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> light dusting of snow here
<popey> ditto
<nigelb> Morning AlanBell
<nigelb> popey: Cam was very good idea :)
<nigelb> popey: What are you using to do that?
<danfish> \o/ popeycam back online
<popey> !info webcam | nigelb
<lubotu3> nigelb: webcam (source: xawtv): image grabber and uploader. In component universe, is extra. Version 3.95.dfsg.1-8.1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 37 kB, installed size 116 kB
<popey> popey.com/~alan/.webcamrc <- a config file that looks a bit like that
<danfish> oh - happy St.Andrew's day y'all
<popey> nigelb: and it's a logitech pro 9000 cam at full resolution (960x720)
<nigelb> popey: wow, neat!
<popey> the 'business' edition does 1280x720 i think
 * nigelb should try that for flowers
<screen-x> popey: is it mounted on a garage?
<popey> i am storing the images locally too, so i can make a time lapse video with mencoder
<nigelb> popey: great idea!
<popey> alan@wopr:~/webcam/archive$ find | wc -l
<popey> 959
<popey> in 8 hours
<nigelb> popey: did you get that video on release day done?
<nigelb> the bot you were running . . .
<popey> yeah, but it wasnt very good in the end
<nigelb> oh, ok
<popey> i.e. not very compelling viewing
<popey> i blame the sunday release
<popey> there's a ton more people on line on a thursday than sunday
<nigelb> heh
<daubers> Morning
<danfish> lo daubers
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings from a cold and slightly white Farnham
<nigelb> Morning Alien, err Alan ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<daubers> Apparently we had more snow here  than popey did
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi Nigel, I suspect you do not have snow.
<nigelb> No, bright shining sun today. 24 degrees :-)
<nigelb> Its been a while since we've had a good display of the sun :p
 * nigelb is evil
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice. Lassi weather. (Salt or Sugar?)
<nigelb> Sugar!
<popey> mango...
<MooDoo> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Venturing to Uxbridge today?
<screen-x> http://benjaminste.in/post/1707639931/theres-a-nap-for-that-iphone-baby-quilt-by
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahhhh.
<MooDoo> awww bless
<jacobw> van deiced :)
<DJones> Morning all
<rml_home> Morning
 * DJones does the safety dance with coat, hat, gloves & shoes with good grip in the snow
<Gary> morning, Colchester finally has teh snow
<MooDoo> yay 0/
<Gary> not enough to make snow penises yet tho :'(
<Gary> snow men, I mean!
<MooDoo> lol
<DJones> Yay, last day in work before starting a new job
<MooDoo> DJones, awesome, what you going to be doing now?
<DJones> similar thing - Accounts, but working for one company doing their own accounts rather than going out to multiple clients checking their figures
<MooDoo> DJones, congrats and last day?  what you got planned, down the put at 9am
<MooDoo> ?
<DJones> MooDoo: I doubt it, trying to get out of place as quick as I can :)
<Gary> DJones: does this mean I canhaz the dog?
<gord> lorra lorra snow today :)
<Gary> alright cilla
<MooDoo> DJones, boooooo :)
<DJones> Gary: Still a _NO_ on that one, I might even get to take the dog to work some days
<Gary> yay
<Gary> thats cool, I've worked at a place which allowed dogs, which was great - meetings were so much more fun
<gord> see, the great think about working from home is that i can steal all the snow and make an epic snow army before the kids get home from school and ruin it all with their rather amateur creations
<czajkowski> gord you big kid
<MooDoo> gord, you rock :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski, good morning :D
<j0nr> argh. no fricking wireless again!! am getting sick of not knowing whether it will be working next time i boot
<finelytuned> morning all
<popey> j0nr: what make/model of computer is it?
<j0nr> popey: samsung N130
<popey> j0nr: what does it do/no-do?
<j0nr> it must be to do with changes during updates as it goes thru periods of working no problem
<j0nr> 10,04 was fine
<popey> looks like a realtek wireless chip
<j0nr> got a wifi symbol with red !
<gord> red doesn't sound good =\
<j0nr> lspci finds it but no mention of wlan in ifconfig
<j0nr> \wg 15
<popey> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8566513&postcount=14
<popey> may be useful?
<popey> others claim it works
<kazade> morning all
<MooDoo> moring kazade
<kazade> it's almost snowing!
<j0nr> popey: think ive tried that before. solved it a while ago (10,10)  unless its worth running thru it again.
<kazade> did anyone give my game a go? got any feedback?
<popey> kazade: oops, forgot
<kazade> ok no worries, I need to figure out how to package the thing :/
<popey> j0nr: well, the thing is that a kernel update can undo hand-compiled modules
<popey> j0nr: which is why its best to look for a ppa or a system based on dkms
<j0nr> popey: right. so redo'ing it may help?
<popey> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/statuses/9540358014771200
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<dutchie> http://twitpic.com/3bjumy :D
<danfish> dutchie: is that the view out of your bedroom window?
<dutchie> danfish: half of it
<dutchie> there is an equally nice one the other way
<popey> nice view
<danfish> dutchie: the dreaming spires...... :)
<screen-x> dutchie: That is a great view, especially in comparison to most universities' drab accommodation blocks.
<danfish> yeah - danfish has a flight home this afternoon :)
<DJones> Ugh, how can a adsl providers system failure wipe the settings in a customers router
<popey> i guess some (like BT) will auto check an ISP page for updates
<popey> like other software auto updates
<danfish> DJones: can you install a 3rd party firmware eg DD-WRT etc?
<DJones> popey: Its happened to both my dad & my father in law, both with the same provider which had a network failure on saturday, bith have different routers, neither provided by the provider
<DJones> danfish: I've fixed one, just restored the settings from the router backup
<DJones> probably have to do the other one later today
<screen-x> DJones: odd
<DJones> screen-x: Yep, very odd
<DJones> At least I know what the problem is now
<screen-x> DJones: do you know which settings were changed?
<DJones> screen-x: I've not physically seen the router to check, all I've been told is that settings had been wiped, all of the login details had been erased & it wasn't picking up any ip address
<screen-x> DJones: power cut?
<DJones> screen-x: Not that we know of, its affected two different people in two different towns, different routers, different phone exchanges, the only constant is the same ISP who had a "core network failure" on saturday.  Its just Odd with a capital D :)
 * kazade realizes he's almost built an Ubuntu game development kit!
<screen-x> kazade: could be a games template for quickly?
<kazade> nah it's all C/C++ libraries
<kazade> isn't quickly Python?
<screen-x> quickly doesn't have to be python..
<kazade> oh right, then maybe!
<kazade> gonna set up a PPA with an ubuntu-gdk meta package ;)
<kazade> SDL + SDL mixer + SOIL + http://blog.kazade.co.uk/p/kazmath.html and http://blog.kazade.co.uk/p/kaztext.html
<kazade> although I'm thinking of writing my own simplified image loading library, SOIL does way too much
<popey> unigine any good?
<popey> pretty pictures
<kazade> huge licensing cost apparently
<popey> http://unigine.com/licensing/
<popey> yowzer
<DJones> $25K for a licence, is that typical?
<kazade> well, I think they should do what unity do..
 * popey chuckles at their specs.
<kazade> have a free version with a watermark
<DJones> http://unigine.com/press-releases/101125-linux-giveaway/
<gord> unigine is really for big companies to buy, not for you :P
<ali1234> i like ogre3d
<ali1234> it only does graphics though
<gord> its nice that they are trying to support linux game development, but if linux gaming is gonna take off its with smaller world of goo like games, games that run on every machine, not on machines that havn't been created yet ;)
<gord> there is a kitten outside playing in the snow :x
<directhex> $25k? sounds like a bargain bin engine
<directhex> 6 figures is normal for an engine
<directhex> high six figures
<diplo> Can anyone recommend a proxy to use outside the uk to watch iplayer ?
<gord> they are just starting out
<AlanBell> it certainly is
<AlanBell> always wondered why games houses don't get together and do a Free Software engine with liberal licensing
<popey> diplo: surely you mean inside the uk?
<directhex> AlanBell: because engine licensing is lucrative, and offers a competitive edge
<directhex> AlanBell: Epic Games make most of their money by licensing UnrealEngine, for example
<diplo> heh, my friend is moving to Corfu but is still paying his TV license in the UK
<gord> too much money in the game industry for anyone to even think about making anything free ;)
<popey> diplo: I suspect that's still against the terms of the license
<directhex> some FOSS is popular in the games industry, though
<directhex> libvorbis, libspeex, python, lua, mono
<MartijnVdS> lua is insanely popular
<MartijnVdS> I was a bit suprised by that
<directhex> MartijnVdS: all games need a scripting engine. lua is an incredibly lightweight off-the-shelf solution
<directhex> for simple things... doesn't scale too well
<gord> seen theora a few  times too, cheeper than licencing mpeg
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I know now :)
<directhex> gord: never seen theora in a commercial game
<gord> you aren't looking hard enough then :P
<kvarley> I was considering buying enemy territory quake wars as a present for a few of my friends for xmas - Are the graphics in ubuntu the same as when the game is played in windows?
<directhex> kvarley: yes.
<kvarley> directhex: Are there comparable to that of say call of duty 5 detail wise?
<directhex> kvarley: bear in mind CoD:WAW is a year younger than QW:ET
<kvarley> directhex: ah yes, what I am really asking is are the graphics better than the free games available on linux? e.g. urban terror, sauerbraten, nexuiz ?
<directhex> kvarley: yes. it's a full-budget game made by a veretan development team
<kvarley> Great stuff! Thanks for the help directhex, lets hope they make more games for linux! :P
<directhex> the QW:ET developers are currently working on a game called Brink, supposedly with a linux port: http://myinsidegamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/brink-e3-2009-12.jpg
<kvarley> directhex: Good stuff =)
<nperry> Love the hacking day idea AlanBell!
<daubers> What did I miss?
<azmodie> everything
 * daubers kicks OpenOffice
<MooDoo> daubers hacking event on the new ubuntu-uk site
<MooDoo> daubers, was a mail to the list - http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org
<andylockran> ooh
 * andylockran server rebooted 3 days ago... 
<popey> wish i had the webcam pointing at my front door
<popey> then I could see when deliveries arrive :)
<directhex> popey: you could RFID tag all your postemn
<directhex> postmen
<popey> :)
<kvarley> popey can you get wireless webcams?
<gord> czajkowski, looks like the hero uses mini usb, should be able to pick that up in pretty much any electronics store
<popey> you can, but thats expensive
<MooDoo> gord i was thinking there may be a maplins down there somewhere
<gord> popey, you could hook up a microphone too, hours of fun
<daubers> MooDoo: Ahhhhh, I've not got my personal email running at the moment :)
<screen-x> kvarley: http://www.edimax.co.uk/en/produce_detail.php?pd_id=258&pl1_id=8&pl2_id=35
<gord> one where you can speak back of course
<kvarley> screen-x: Only Â£80 not bad
<popey> only 640x480 though
<screen-x> Speccing up a desktop for work, using an i7-950 cpu, I can select 12GB of RAM as 3x4, or 16 as 4x4. How can you have 4x4 with triple channel memory?
<screen-x> directhex: ^
<directhex> you can't
<directhex> but some motherboards have non-power-of-three slots
<screen-x> directhex: motherboard has 6 sockets, could you put 4 sticks in and ignore the 3rd channel?
<directhex> screen-x: yup
<directhex> but if you're only on dual channel, you may as well save money w/ i5
<screen-x> ok, so they are all valid configurations, but I need to make sure I choose X*3 to get the best speed.
<screen-x> Question is... is 12GB or 3-channel better than 16GB of 2-channel..
<directhex> screen-x: do you often use 13 gig of ram?
<screen-x> nope, because I have a nasty old machine..
<TheOpenSourcerer> 6G is very comfortable... 12 would be ooodles IMHO.. :-)
<screen-x> next question... is 6x2 faster than 3x4?
<fell_> WTF
<fell_> Stupid xirc gnome
<MartijnVdS> ?
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peoples :)
<screen-x> afternoon bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> What have I missed this morning?
<bigcalm> Amazing how productive I can be with irc closed
<nperry> Snow! :)
<dogmatic69> what is the command, if any to see what is using which port?
<bigcalm> nstat ?
<screen-x> dogmatic69: netstat
<bigcalm> That's the one
<dogmatic69> thanks
<dogmatic69> ok, i have installed cherokee and it says to go to http://localhost:9090/ but that wont work
<screen-x> dogmatic69: "won't work" == ?
<dogmatic69> there is nothing on that port so i tried telnet 127.0.0.1 9090 and it says telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
<dogmatic69> getting there ^
<bigcalm> Have you started the service after installing it?
<dogmatic69> yes
<screen-x> dogmatic69: does cherokee have have a log file?
<dogmatic69> http://localhost/ shows the page
<screen-x> dogmatic69: then its probably running on port 80
<bigcalm> Which would make sense as it is a web server
<dogmatic69> well this is some admin backend thing
<dogmatic69> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/cherokee/users/19074
<dogmatic69> ah, figured it out
<dogmatic69> you have to run some command that gives you a pw and opens the port
<dogmatic69> thanks anyway
<andylockran> anyone know a nntp client for ubuntu?
<screen-x> thunderbird?
<andylockran> ta
<AlanBell> getting a bit more #uksnow here
<popey> lies http://popey.com/webcam/
<popey> :)
<screen-x> popey: would be amazing if the fountain worked with snow :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> #uksnow in GU10 about 3 or 4/10 at the moment.
 * DJones notes that from twitter, GU9 is 7/10
<popey> GU14 still 1/10 imo
<popey> unless my webcam broke :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh, I wouldn't say 7...
<DJones> The 7/10 was from #ubuntu-uk's resident chicken farmer :)
<popey> in fact no snow on the webcam
<TheOpenSourcerer> GU9 is just down the road from me, GU14 is quite a bit more...
 * popey notes that his webcam is a bit squiffy
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/webcam/test.jpg vs http://popey.com/~alan/webcam/rotated.jpg
<popey> might have ever so slightly over-rotated it
<gord> we were getting plenty this morning, but now the evil sun has come out :( http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aHAb2so2_LfuRiCKd9jtsA?feat=directlink
<diplo> popey, what cam do you use for that and how do you do it ?
<diplo> IP camera ?
<diplo> Sure I have a couple of Axis cameras at home that I keep meaning to dig out
<popey> no
<popey> plugged into my pc
<popey> running a piece of software called..
<popey> !info webcam
<popey> :)
<lubotu3> webcam (source: xawtv): image grabber and uploader. In component universe, is extra. Version 3.95.dfsg.1-8.1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 37 kB, installed size 116 kB
<popey> popey.com/~alan/.webcamrc
<diplo> got an office at the end of the garden ?
<Azelphur> just started snowing here again :D
<popey> config file like that
<popey> no, thats a garage
<diplo> ah  :D
<diplo> thanks, will take a looksy
<gord> Azelphur, same here, where are you?
<popey> i should blog it really
<Azelphur> gord: margate, kent
 * diplo likes your little projects, wish I'd get off my arse and do stuff
<gord> oh, just a coincidence then
<diplo> Most of the stuff i see you doing are things ive beening meaning to do for ages
<diplo> looks like somebigger flakes for you popey  :P
<popey> nah, just closer to the camera :)
<DJones> popey: Do you know if "webcam" much different to "motion"? I played with motion a couple of years back with quite good results (for a crappy webcam)
<popey> they are different
<popey> i tried motion but found webcam better
<popey> webcam also supports ssh uploading
<DJones> I'll have to have a look at it
<gord> i keep wanting to do a webcam thing, but i just think i'll get carried away and start putting motors and servo's on it to do tracking or something
<DJones> I had mine set up to keep an eye on the dog during the day when nobody was in the house, trouble was, the dog was camera shy & kept avoiding the lense
 * jussi just says meh and goes to buy... http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26358
<jussi> you can even watch that bad boy from your android phone :D
<popey> lol
<popey> that camera is _shit_
<popey> 0.3 megapixels :)
<popey> it would make my back garden look like minecraft
<dogmatic69> lol
<MooDoo> minecraft rocks
<popey> i made my first functioning train track last night :)
<jussi> yeah, but is go servos and motors and night vision :P
<popey> one of the stations is underwater :)
<popey> 0.3 megapixels of night vision
<popey> so, minecraft at night then
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-OEM-9000-Webcam-Business/dp/B002RD066Q
<popey> thats the puppy you want :)
<diplo> My end game project is to have a camera front and rear of the house and connect to the telly
<diplo> Wife wants to see who is at the back door before opening the door
<popey> well, http://www.axis.com/products/video/camera/fixed/index.htm is probably what you _want_ :)
<screen-x> popey: too right, I would like lots of axis stuff...
<diplo> I have a Axis 210 and 2110 ( older one )
<screen-x> diplo: that you don't need any more and would like to donate?
<popey> i just wish those logitech ones could do proper HD recording over USB, but that's asking a bit much of the USB bus
<diplo> heh, first need to find where i've stored them
<diplo> I fitted 36 at my last place as our CCTV system
<diplo> Last one i fitted before i left
<diplo> http://www.axis.com/products/cam_221/index.htm
<diplo> i thought it was a 223m but not listed
<diplo> yeah it must have been different as this one did 1600x 1200
<DJones> 1600x1200 Nice, that size image would fit nicely on my laptop screen
<diplo> http://www.axis.com/products/cam_223m/
<diplo> thereit is, was really quite good at night shots as well
<diplo> Was 800-900 quid though
<diplo> :P
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> czajkowski, afternoon x
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, maybe 4 or 5 #uksnow in GU10 now.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: confusing this for twitter again?
<AlanBell> I was a bit mis-callibrated with my 7/10 earlier
<TheOpenSourcerer> Peeps were discussing on here earlier. The hastag is good shortcut.
<AlanBell> twitter sucks
 * AlanBell heads out into the snow
<AlanBell> I may be some time
<bigcalm> AlanBell: tweet about it ;)
<DJones> Shouldn't AlanBell _Cluck_ about things rather than tweet about them?
<bigcalm> HA!
<DJones> Maybe using "clucker" the open source micro blogging site :)
<dutchie> DJones: shouldn't that be Cluckr?
<popey> clckr
<DJones> Perhaps
<popey> already exists as a typo domain for clickr
<neuro> oh is it that time again?
<neuro> makey up words time? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://twitpic.com/3bmk4c
 * neuro decides to set up a new social network media monetised contact mobile synergised aggregator called krgysflgt
<neuro> TheOpenSourcerer: that's girly snow
<bastubis> hullo - just got an email about the web meeting on the 10th
<bastubis> what time is it? I know a bit about Wordpress and can also write for the web - but if it's late in the evening, I'll have keeled over by then
<DJones> bastubis: 21:00 GMT
<neuro> web meeting?
<bastubis> came up on the list, a meeting to sort out the Wordpress thing
<neuro> ah, ubuntu-uk.org?
 * neuro isn't on the list
<bastubis> so where am I?
<neuro> or is he
<neuro> oh, i am
 * neuro looks
<DJones> i would guess its the irc meeting tonight will be discussing it
<bastubis> wrong window? no - this is ubuntu-uk
<DJones> bastubis: Meetings are held in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<neuro> ah, hack day on the 10th
<bastubis> jeez, 9pm!
<bastubis> I'm prone on the couch by then
<neuro> which is the point, i think :)
<neuro> 9pm != people at work
<neuro> although in saying that i'm working from home today
<neuro> vpn ftw
<DJones> Use a laptop, then  you can be prone on the couch & take part in the meeting :)
<bastubis> hmmm, well, we'll see if I'm still capable of speech by then ;)
<neuro> but you don't need to talk, just type :>
<neuro> or just mash the keyboard, it's what i do
<neuro> blergenflange
<neuro> see?
<bastubis> well, yeah, but if I'm going to do fiddly stuff to Wordpress, I like to be awake at the time ;)
<DJones> neuro: That almost sounds like a real german word
<neuro> maybe it is
<DJones> Nah, already googled :)
<bastubis> a monty-python-german word maybe :p
<neuro> "guten tag, ich mag eines blergenflange bitte"
<neuro> oops, "guten tag, ich mag kauf eines blergenflange bitte"
<neuro> actually that's some awful german right there
<neuro> not that i need to know any german
<neuro> tho i suspect new employers will want me to learn American
<bastubis> mine is about at your level
<bastubis> are you working for an American company? Good luck!
<neuro> bastubis: i've worked directly for american companies before, but the company i work for is getting bought by Broadcom
<bastubis> oh delightful - American and anti-FOSS
<bastubis> bummer
<neuro> which sounds fun until you realise a) you work in IT, and b) you need to get all your crap in compliance with sarbanes oxley
<neuro> well there's that too i guess
<neuro> won't be owt to do with me i suspect :)
<neuro> i'm just an IT bod
<jpds> bastubis: Broadcom recently released open-sauce drivers for their wifi chipsets.
<neuro> and the guys i work with design powerline stuff
<bastubis> he jpds - well, that's only a decade of fiddling with firmware cutters blah blah - sure I'll get over it ;)
<neuro> just think of all the fun people have had trying to faff with cutters in the mean time though!
<bastubis> feels like I should knock off for christmas now
<bastubis> after all, it *is* snowing . . .
<neuro> actually, speaking of working for americans, i had to put on an american accent for one girl to understand me
<neuro> admittedly we were both drunk at the time, but still
<bastubis> Yeah, I think some acclimitisation is required for most Americans to follow British English
<neuro> i'm scottish
<neuro> just to compound things :)
<bastubis> yes lol - but I can follow as long as not dense Glasweigian
<neuro> well that's what i was doing, to be fair
<neuro> i was in brighton, talking to an american, and i forgot to slow down
<neuro> hence the accent switch
<neuro> have to deliberately slow my speech when i get south of gretna
<bastubis> ah! well, yes, I can just about follow glaswegian if we're both sober but I do struggle at times
<gord> i'm pretty sure glaswegian is a different language
<bastubis> heh, only with added alcohol ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Seen what someone did to their Bentley Convertible: https://twitter.com/#!/opensourcerer/statuses/9627522174029824
<directhex> they tweeted?
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: That was unexpected, I was expecting a picture of Bently having lost an argument with a lamp post or tractor/trailer carrying manure
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol.
<TheOpenSourcerer> He paid Â£1800 to do that.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a skin you stick over the paintwork. Looks very realistic.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jamie Bennett] Careers at Linaro - http://www.linuxuk.org/2010/11/careers-at-linaro/
<nperry> Thats christmas nearly sorted all I need to do is wait for pay day to buy girlfriends last main present.
 * neuro larts firefox
<neuro> 959MB RAM ... le sigh
<bigcalm> Ouch
<nperry> How many tab is that?
<bigcalm> 2 tabs and some flash is all it takes
<neuro> i only have 36 tabs open :P
<nperry> only.
<neuro> i used to manage with firefox 2 with about 90 tabs
<neuro> easily
<neuro> i blame flash being weak sauce on the mac
<nperry> wonder how much that would take on chromium.. Good bench mark.
<neuro> i've found chrome/chromium to be ... lacking
<neuro> has similar leaky issues on high load ajaxy pages
<neuro> hmm, twitter seems pooched for me
<bigcalm> Got my dad to use Chrome on his netbook instead of firefox. It's actually useable again
<neuro> i tried putting xp back on my dell mini 9
<neuro> eventually gave up and put maverick on it
<neuro> much better
<nperry> Anyone got any thoughts on this http://www.ebuyer.com/product/180833
<nperry> Might swap it for 2x1tb drives though
<diplo> nperry, do you need the dvd burner
<diplo> ?
<diplo> Mate thoroughly recommends etrayz, lot's of firmware updates and supports up to4gb of discs ( 2x 2tb )
<nucc1> i'm trying to tie a specific LAN connection to my home router, but whenever i put in what i believe to be the mac address in NM, the connection is no longer available.
<brobostigon> yay irssi working again, :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<bigcalm> "I raised the alarm at work today.  the midgets were furious"
<finelytuned> afternoon brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey finelytuned
<nucc1> bigcalm, lol
<dutchie> hi DanielRM, not seen you for a while
<DanielRM> dutchie: hey, how are you?
<popey> diplo: what would you use the dvd burner for?
<popey> would you even ever use it?
<dutchie> DanielRM: not too bad thanks, rather tired and looking forward to the end of term though
<popey> diplo: i recommend edge10 cases
<diplo> Me neverm that's why i said to go for the Etrayz
<DanielRM> dutchie: hmmm, same, although I'm more looking forward to finally finishing my assignments.
<dutchie> me too
<diplo> http://shop.xtreamer.net/categories/eTRAYz/
<dutchie> doesn't help that everyone who's not doing maths keeps going on about "last essay/problem sheet done", when we have 4 left
<DanielRM> Ach. I've forgotten my password to identify.
<DanielRM> Hehe, I've got two essays due this week - 2,000 words apiece.
<DanielRM> Handed in another one last week, thank heavens.
<DanielRM> Ach.
<nperry> diplo: No not really, who would though?
<DanielRM> How do you reset your password with NickServ?
<dutchie> DanielRM: try asking in #freenode
<brobostigon>  /msg nickserv help
<diplo> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#sendpass
<diplo> nperry, all i can think is if you have shell access you can cron backups ?
<DanielRM> Thanks. :-)
<nperry> diplo: normally they are all locked down :(
<diplo> yeah, thats why i like the etrayz
<diplo> lots of predefined apps ( Transmission etc
<diplo> )
<nperry> diplo: Dunnon about etrayz though, seem to be alot of bad reviews on amazon.
<diplo> and shell access
<diplo> Well my friend has had his 1+ years and loves it
<popey> i dont like the name :)
<diplo> Inormally find people don't write a review unless they don't like something
<diplo> :)
<popey> untrue
<diplo> Neither do I tbh, but it's cheap and it works
<popey> i left a very positive review of my printer on amazon
<diplo> Blimey, your the first person I've known to do that, everyone i speak to only leave reviews if they don't like something
<popey> there's loads of +ve reviews on amazon of stuff
<diplo> I know there are a lot of reviews but from the hundred + people i know who buy stuff from amazon they never review stuff unless it's bad
<nperry> There was +ve reviews, just didn't like the -ve
<diplo> Thats as scientific as i got
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> How wonderfuly nerdy
<nperry> As apprantly manufactor aren't contactable
<nperry> Which is bad..
<nperry> scan is out of stock with no eta :(
<DanielRM> Ah, much better. Password and e-mail address reset now.
<bigcalm> Don't eta blow things up?
<nperry> no etas might ruin my christmas present :(
<exobuzz> popey, which printer ?
<popey> hmm?
<exobuzz> you mentioned you left a positive review about a printer. so im delayed
<exobuzz> sorry im delayed i mean
<popey> ah, an hp one
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R1V4EWO3UO7H5Z/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm
<popey> note all the negative reviews, mostly are about the crappy xp drivers
<exobuzz> cool thanks.
<exobuzz> i bought a printer recently. a dell one (rebadged fuji xerox) i had read that the driver for the fuji xerox worked on linux so i took the risk. luckily it did..
<exobuzz> good to know multifunction stuff works well. 5 years ago, it was quite a different story
<exobuzz> printer stuff has come a long way. still dont know why we need three different types/sets of driver projects though and we cant have one that does all. seems strange. everyone wants their own project :)
<mfraz74> the past 2 printers I've bought have been hp because of hplip which just works
<exobuzz> my last one was canon inkjet. it only worked via a paid for driver on linux unless you were willing to sacrifice on resolution/features.. but most of the time since i hardly print it was blocked, and i had to do about 15 clean cycles and about half a cart of wasted ink. now i got a laser printer and i dont know why i didnt just get one earlier
<DanielRM> I bought an HP printer recently but it appears to simply be broken.
<DanielRM> Which is a shame because it looks like a really nice printer and I specifically searched out one which was cross-platform compatible.
<mfraz74> which hp printer?
<popey> i bought an el-cheapo laser printer for 10 quid
<popey> and extracted the cups bits from the osx driver and used that
<popey> works perfectly
<popey> \o/ cups
 * popey hugs apple a *tiny* bit
<DanielRM> One of the Deskjet All-In-Ones.
<DanielRM> F4580 or something similar.
<exobuzz> no. dont to that. they only need seconds to extract your soul
<daubers> popey: Repackaged them for Ubuntu yet?
<exobuzz> :)
<daubers> sudo apt-get install popey-drivers
<popey> daubers: filed a bug and attached it
<popey> its now in maverick
<popey> (i was on lucid)
<exobuzz> my printer was dell 1320cn network colour laser, with 3 sets (4 carts each) of 1,000 print carts  (one set received after complaining that the advert suggested you got 2,000 print sets not 1,000).. Â£134 or something. cheap. and no toner costs for some years with my usage
<exobuzz> working well so far anyway.
<exobuzz> its not small mind.
<daubers> popey: win \o/
 * daubers preps a server that's being shipped to .jp tomorrow
<exobuzz> daubers, that's quite a ways.
<daubers> Just hope I can find enough packaging foam to keep it safe
<exobuzz> "what is the output of cat /proc/asound/cards ?" "sorry i dont understand?".. i fear supporting this user is going to be hard work...
<exobuzz> daubers, what sort of server ?
<exobuzz> "Google to be investigated by EU"... and what about apple. dont forget apple!
<DanielRM> I like Google. :-(
<DanielRM> I can't help but feel that at some point I really should get on with my essays.
<DanielRM> I'm just fiddling with bitlbee at the moment.
<DanielRM> And chuckling at a friend stuck in snow.
<exobuzz> hehe
<exobuzz> irc tunnel thingy. interesting.
<DanielRM> I also get the feeling another friend's been fraped after his political views changed from libertarian to Worker's Party of Korea.
<DanielRM> I'm quite glad I'm avoiding any misfortunes.
<exobuzz> :/
 * DanielRM touches wood.
<andylockran> howdy all
<brobostigon> hi andylockran
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
 * popey stamps his little feet waiting for a delivery
 * Gary stamps popey 
 * popey tickles Gary 
 * andylockran runs away
<danfish> but it's snowing already popey ;)
<Gary> I've just, in the last five minutes, watched a car drive into the back of another and just now a cyclist slide over, so funny
<andylockran> aww
<nperry> Gary: All happening where you are...
<nperry> Nothing happens on popey cam
<Gary> you are connected to the wrong popeycam, he has a secret one :-)
<andylockran> :)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Today 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |  Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> there is a lot of snow near me  :s
<gord> czajkowski, go inside then, its warmer
<czajkowski> I am
<danfish> deep, deep joy :( now in UK, but in mother of all traffic jams getting back home. What was that etherpad re winter survival popey set up?
<DanielRM> danfish: back in my hometown people are apparently abandoning their cars at a roundabout.
<danfish> DanielRM :(
<jacobw> evening
<nucc1> hi guys, i upgraded to 10.10 last night and i can't find my GNote notes, anyone know where they are saved? and where i could copy them to?
<AlanBell> rather weak effort at a winter car survival kit methinks http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8443690.stm
<ali1234> cat litter for gritting? what is that going to do?
<AlanBell> annoy the cat I should think
<ali1234> most cat litter is just ground up newspaper these days, that ain't gonna do squat...
<ali1234> it's not even good for cat litter
<nperry> its incase the cats get cold and you let them in.
 * brobostigon giggles @ ipopey 
<AlanBell> meeting in half an hour folks, in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<JamesTait-HTC> Evening all! :)
<ipopey> Moo
<nucc1> i miss my music-applet :(
<gord> minecraft is hard now :(
<suprengr> is cat litter all from onee cat or do they go round collecting the stuff that several cats throw down in thew street? :/
<ZMo> hi
<suprengr> meow
<ZMo> i ve server1 who auth the users by server2; how can i restrict to my server1 (by PAM) login from a certain LDAP group?
<ZMo> sorry, its late here. take two:
<ZMo> i ve server1 who auth the users via LDAP from server2; how can i restrict to my server1 (by PAM) login from a certain LDAP group?
<dogmatic69> how do i use a PPA?
<dogmatic69> i would like to install this on my server https://launchpad.net/~cherokee-webserver/+archive/ppa
<DanielRM> dogmatic69: sudo apt-add-repository ppa:cherokee-webserver/ppa
<dogmatic69> cool thanks
<DanielRM> dogmatic69: then apt-get update and install.
<dogmatic69> where did you get that name?
<dogmatic69> oh i see it
<dogmatic69> cool
<DanielRM> dogmatic69: hehe.
<dogmatic69> thanks
<DanielRM> You're welcome.
<dogmatic69> if i have the apt-get install version should i apt-get remove first?
<DanielRM> No, it should just update it in that case.
<dogmatic69> cool
<dogmatic69> ill be back when my servers down :P
<DanielRM> Blame the PPA holder for that, not me. :P
<dogmatic69> udo: apt-add-repository: command not found :/
<DanielRM> I'll assume you're not missing an s actually?
<dogmatic69> lol
<DanielRM> Hmmm.
<DanielRM> What version is the server running?
<dogmatic69> no i just <tab>ed it locally
<dogmatic69> 10.10
<dogmatic69> local and server are both 10.10x64
<dogmatic69> im on slicehost
<dogmatic69> could be disabled maybe?
<dogmatic69> not installed... its like a minimal install
<DanielRM> Might be.
<DanielRM> Trying to remember the right package to install.
<dogmatic69> python-software-properties :)
<DanielRM> Alternatively you could just put it in your source.list.d directory manually.
<dogmatic69> all working
<DanielRM> Goodo.
<DanielRM> popey's not been infected by one of the Great Evils, has he?
<bigcalm> Just a Great Elvis
<ipopey> Heh
<DanielRM> Hey, don't y'all be going steppin' on my blue suede shoes.
<DanielRM> Any HTML guru fancy sating my curiosity regarding one particular feature of my homepage?
<WelshDragon> I know it.... but wouldn't call myself a guru i'm afraid
<DanielRM> I do know it to an extent. I just can't see why one particular thing is happening based on the source.
<DanielRM> http://humanistagenda.org/
<WelshDragon> what's the problem?
<DanielRM> The header's set to link to the index, fair enough.
<DanielRM> But for some reason so's the space to the right of that header.
<DanielRM> I think that's fairly nifty, I just can't see why. :P
<WelshDragon> So it is
<WelshDragon> erm.... what on earth? :s
<DanielRM> You're as stumped as I am?
<WelshDragon> yus...
<DanielRM> Heh.
<WelshDragon> DanielRM, make it a <p> just for a second
<DanielRM> One moment.
<WelshDragon> see if that changes anything
<DanielRM> Done.
<DanielRM> And it still does it. :-/
<WelshDragon> DanielRM, right... i've no idea what you've done :s lo
<WelshDragon> lol*
<DanielRM> I borked HTML. D:
<WelshDragon> wait
<WelshDragon> yes i do
<DanielRM> Oh?
<WelshDragon> Put it <a> inside the paragraph. Don't surround the whole <p> in the <a>
<WelshDragon> well
<WelshDragon> <h1>
<WelshDragon> no <p>
<WelshDragon> duh!
<WelshDragon> lol
<WelshDragon> such a simple problem
<WelshDragon> fooled us both
<DanielRM> Ah, nesting's incorrect?
<WelshDragon> yus!
<WelshDragon> <p> <a = href="website.org> daniel rm</a> </p> is what it should be
<DanielRM> And indeed it's fixed.
<WelshDragon> or h1* rather..
<WelshDragon> :)
<DanielRM> I'm not sure if I might change it back or not, but it's nice to finally know why. :P
<WelshDragon> lol :)
<WelshDragon> I'd recommened not changing it back
<DanielRM> Any particular reason?
<WelshDragon> I like to click in blank places to refocus the window, if i brought a small window into focus. I'd hate a blank space to link me to another page.
<DanielRM> Hmm, I can see your point.
<DanielRM> I'll keep it fixed then.
<WelshDragon> :)
<DanielRM> I'm keen on pages validating correctly but I gave up when I looked through accessibility guidelines, so let that be my concession. :P
<WelshDragon> Where's Salford anywhoo? :s
<WelshDragon> haha
<DanielRM> Just next to Manchester.
<WelshDragon> Oh
<DanielRM> It's quite a nice area actually.
<WelshDragon> What you studying there?
<DanielRM> Politics.
<WelshDragon> Nvm, just read politics
<WelshDragon> lol
<DanielRM> XD
<WelshDragon> I'm wanting to an electronics engineering course up in Aberdeen.... but the air in scotland gives me a throat infection :s lol
<DanielRM> You'd probably get used to the air after a while though I'd imagine?
<WelshDragon> I hope so heh. been up there a fair few times... always ill after coming back. I'm used to the nice moist air in wales. Air in scotland is very dry heh.
<DanielRM> My friend's at Bangor University now. He seems to quite like Wales so far.
<DanielRM> He's not mentioned the air though. :P
<WelshDragon> Lol. You tend not to notice better air. You only notice it when it get's worse :P. I'm also used to living in the country side. So the whole city pollution from aberdeen is new to me aswell.
<DanielRM> I've always lived in fairly industrial areas so I'm used to it.
<DanielRM> I usually notice how clean the air is where my grandmother lives though.
<WelshDragon> :)
<WelshDragon> I'm born and bred here. Don't know any different. What's your main reason for making a website anywhoo?
<DanielRM> I've always tried to keep some sort of online presence; now that I'm a uni student I just decided to clean my act up and make something slightly decent.
<WelshDragon> Ah :) So what you hoping to go onto after completeing ya course? or no idea yet?
<DanielRM> I'm doing a lot of research on the side as well so I wanted somewhere to showcase it if I ever finish it.
<DanielRM> Well, I'm hoping that by the time I finish my course I'll be a councillor, and my eventual aim's to be an MP.
<WelshDragon> And for which party would you be an MP for? lol
<DanielRM> As if the homepage doesn't give it away. :P Labour of course.
<WelshDragon> lol
<WelshDragon> Don't think labour's won the seat where i am ever since i've been born :s I don't vote though, makes no difference to me
<DanielRM> I tried to stand for the May 2011 council elections but I got beaten by a councillor who moved into our ward after there was an upset in his.
<WelshDragon> every party is gonna run country into the ground where i am lol
<WelshDragon> What's it actually take to become an MP? what's involved?
<DanielRM> Quite a lot. :(
<mfraz74> i would've voted pp last time if i could
<WelshDragon> ohs :(
<DanielRM> In pure theory, you just need to be selected by the party and then win the actual election itself.
<WelshDragon> Well if i'm ever on the electrel role where you are, and you're up for the vote.... i'l vote for ya
<WelshDragon> lol
<DanielRM> In reality your likelihood of being selected is tiny unless you've done a ridiculous amount of work for the local party and you've managed to stay friendly with everyone.
<DanielRM> :)
<WelshDragon> who was MP before this dude who moved to where you are like?
<DanielRM> The MP's Hazel Blears, but I was trying to stand for council so she's still going to be MP for a while. :P
<ali1234> "What's it actually take to become an MP? what's involved?" - Â£1000 and a lot of people to vote for you
<WelshDragon> Oh i've heard of her of the news lol. Oooo... so if you won you'd be on tv? lol :P
<DanielRM> ali1234: the deposit's only Â£500, but in reality your campaign's going to be spending a lot more. :P
<DanielRM> IIRC the maximum spend in a general election campaign is Â£33,000 or so per seat, although it varies depending on population.
<WelshDragon> Â£33,000 :X
<DanielRM> The party pays for everything thankfully, although you'll still end up out of pocket.
<WelshDragon> ah
<DanielRM> Not to mention back-broken from the campaigning itself.
<WelshDragon> and then alot more work on top of that -if- you win heh
<DanielRM> If I get to stand for council then I intend to door-knock every house in my ward if possible, which is about 5,000 houses.
<DanielRM> lol, indeed.
<DanielRM> My MP back in Grimsby had 900 cases he was working on just before the election.
<WelshDragon> 5,000 doesn't sound too bad actually
<ali1234> 10 a day, it will only take you a year and a half...
<ali1234> by which time most people will have forgotten who you are
<DanielRM> You only get about half a year, so you need to do about 30 per day.
<WelshDragon> my MP -used- to be lembit opik... then he lost the election and now he's on i'm a celebrity get me out of here :x
<DanielRM> Lembit's awesome. :P
<WelshDragon> Anyone who pulls a cheeky girl is awesome
<dutchie> the PPUK leader stood in my constituency
<WelshDragon> haha
<DanielRM> dutchie: did you vote for them?
<diplo> evening all
<DanielRM> dutchie: hang your head in shame if not.
<dutchie> DanielRM: 2 months too young :(
<DanielRM> :(
<WelshDragon> who's PPUK? :s
<DanielRM> Pirate Party. \o/
<jacobw> pirate party
<WelshDragon> oh
<WelshDragon> lol
<WelshDragon> Only people who stand in my area is lib dems or conservs.... I want a welsh party! *hrmphs*
<DanielRM> Plaid Cymru stood against Lembit in 2010. :P
<jacobw> i wasted my vote :(
<DanielRM> jacobw: what did you do?
<ipopey> Ahem
<WelshDragon> they did? Well there were no campaign leaflets through the door lol
<jacobw> i voted UKIP :p
<DanielRM> It's just occurred to me, wasn't there supposed to be a meeting in here at 9?
<jacobw> that was yesterday DanielRM
<bigcalm> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<AlanBell> DanielRM: meetings are in -uk-meeting
<dutchie> that just happened in #ubuntu-uk-meeting :)
<AlanBell> and it was today jacobw
<DanielRM> Ah.
<AlanBell> DanielRM: minutes will be available shortly
<DanielRM> Is that a new thing? I thought they were always held in here.
<exobuzz> my mp is a right PITA.. ed vaizey .. against net neutrality and for isps being responsible for content and so on.
<ipopey> Used to be
<exobuzz> oops. ok no politics here. ok
<WelshDragon> lol exobuzz
<AlanBell> we changed things about to get out of the way of general support that was happening at the same time as meetings
<DanielRM> Ah.
<jacobw> my MP was an expenses scandal victim
<WelshDragon> Slightly annoys me when people get all anal about sticking to the "ubuntu" topic. If you're not disturbing anyone getting support and no one's arguing, let the conversation role on.
<ipopey> Victim!?
<jacobw> i say victim, but that definately isn't the right word
<ipopey> Heh
<exobuzz> scumbag ?
<exobuzz> :)
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:   http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday December 16th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |   Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â
<jacobw> oh well, when i lived in Bradford, our MP was Eric Pickles
<jacobw> who is one of the most detestable people ever to walk the earth
<WelshDragon> how so jacobw? :s
<exobuzz> jacobw, bradford indian takeaways must do a good business then
<jacobw> exobuzz, he's tried to sue one recently :p
<exobuzz> but i agree with your sentiments.
<exobuzz> was he the first person ever to be refused more food at a eat as much as you like buffet ?
<DanielRM> Eric Pickles' wiki article got vandalised after the election to show Humpty Dumpty instead.
<exobuzz> lol
<WelshDragon> haha
<DanielRM> It stayed there until something like June 15th.
<exobuzz> i love that
<DanielRM> I still have it screenshotted.
<exobuzz> just fantastic
<mfraz74> all i have to say is yeovil and david laws!!
<WelshDragon> is yeovil the name of a game? rings a bell..
<jacobw> i wish i knew more about politics, but i don't have the time to keep up to date
<mfraz74> yeovil is the town
<WelshDragon> Oh. Remembering them now. Think i went to watch em play football...against shrewsbury town
<WelshDragon> When they were in conference
<mfraz74> that was a long time ago WelshDragon, i expect we lost too
<WelshDragon> yus it was a long time ago lol. Can't remember the result though. Not followed shrewsbury in at least two years, and they were in conference a year before that i think.
<DanielRM> What's conference in the context of football?
<jacobw> its rugby isn't it?
<DanielRM> All I know is party conference (the Labour one of which my girlfriend got to attend and I didn't, grrrr).
<WelshDragon> stupid wrong button shortcut
<jacobw> which party do you support DanielRM ?
<mfraz74> Conference was the league below division 2
<AlanBell> DanielRM: jacobw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting
<DanielRM> AlanBell: thanks.
<DanielRM> jacobw: Labour.
<jacobw> cheers AlanBell
<WelshDragon> DanielRM, you're got the premiership league. Champtionship league. League 1. League 2. And then the conference
<WelshDragon> below the conference you have: Conference North, and Conference South. I'm not sure what's below those two..
<DanielRM> My girlfriend's just lost the Gamecube memory card she bought me for my birthday. What bothers me is that it's not even my birthday yet.
<WelshDragon> and it's football.
<DanielRM> Hmm.
<WelshDragon> lmao DanielRM
<mfraz74> can you still buy gamecube memory cards?
<DanielRM> Online you can. :P
<DanielRM> I was quite looking forward to playing Zelda: Windwaker again. Bah.
<WelshDragon> How much are they DanielRM?
<DanielRM> Not expensive thankfully, but we're skint anyway.
<WelshDragon> Got a pic of yous and the lovely other half?
<DanielRM> Mainly because the council and the DWP seem to be having a competition trying to outdo one another in terms of incompetence.
 * AlanBell observes that the next support meeting is in the past daubers: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/NextMeeting
<DanielRM> Probably somewhere.
<WelshDragon> lol
<WelshDragon> I'm currently receiving money from council and DWP atm so i dare not insult them.
<DanielRM> WelshDragon: that's my issue. We're supposed to be receiving money from them. -_-
<ipopey> Heh. I have two game cubes
<ipopey> One purple and one black
<DanielRM> The black one was awesome.
<ipopey> Thats my uk one
<jacobw> ipopey, how did you register your tomtom?
<DanielRM> That's what I first had. Then I ran away from home and now I just have a Wii, which is backwards compatible anyway thankfully. :P
<ipopey> My purple one is switchable USA/jap
<WelshDragon> DanielRM, Ohs >.< My council can be a pain in the butt sometimes, but DWP are never an issue. I'm too ill to work atm, just get a medical check every year and dwp are happy to pay heh.
<ipopey> jacobw: Windows
<jacobw> ipopey, yeah, i think i'm going to have to go that route too
<ipopey> Used my work pc
<WelshDragon> Is there really a difference between black and purple game cubes? :s
<WelshDragon> beside the colour...
<DanielRM> WelshDragon: my girlfriend's on Income Support as she's living with me and estranged from her parents. As it is they messed that up and stopped the claim on November 15th; we're trying to get that sorted. And as a result of that the council have suspended our Housing Benefit claim.
<ipopey> Well, mine, yes
<ipopey> But no, not normally
<DanielRM> We first put in claims for both in July, immediately after moving to Salford.
<jacobw> ipopey, i tried to do that, unfortunately my work PC is seriously irritating and disallows anything other than HTTP traffic
<DanielRM> And they've been messing it up every month since.
<ipopey> It is http jacobw
<WelshDragon> DanielRM, Ah, i had that once. DWP stopped stopped, and the housing benefit check themselves against DWP. So both stopped at same time heh.
<WelshDragon> Becomes a right pain in the butt
<jacobw> ipopey, is it really? there'll be some other stupid arbitrary roadblock in my way then :(
<ipopey> It probably doesn't spot the proxy
<jacobw> that's a good point
<DanielRM> It's just bothering me that we tried to get everything done as soon as possible after moving - we didn't leave anything to chance, we checked and rechecked everything multiple times even before moving - and yet it's still been utterly fouled up.
<ipopey> Dunno if you cat set that
<jacobw> i'll give it another go tomorrow and play about it with it some more
<ipopey> Did you try a vm?
<DanielRM> It's caused chaos for the finances. My credit card's nearly maxed and my overdraft is seeing heavy use. :(
<jacobw> ipopey, i haven't yet, i've read posts that say it won't work in a vm
<ipopey> Oh
<WelshDragon> stuuuuuuupid BSOD =.=
<WelshDragon> DanielRM, try to get used to the frustration though :P. Council and DWP will ask for annual updates and you can guarantee one of em will fudge it up.
<DanielRM> Heh.
<WelshDragon> At least you get the backpay once they do fudge it up and leave it late. Then it's like: "Oooooooo lots of money!" for a week lol
<DanielRM> I'd prefer not to struggle in the meantime TBH. :(
<WelshDragon> You'll forget about that once it's all sorted :)
<DanielRM> At one point I was basically left with a budget of Â£30 for four weeks.
<WelshDragon> ouch -\
<WelshDragon> =\ *
<DanielRM> And that's for two people so it's even worse.
<WelshDragon> Ya parents not bail you out with a loan for that time like? I was royally screwed at one point like, dwp and council stopped over some stupid thing. Got a temp loan from grandparents like until backpay came through.
<DanielRM> I'm not on speaking terms with my mother for various reasons and my dad's a complete skinflint.
<DanielRM> He refused to fill in the income assessment for my student loan application.
<WelshDragon> Oh =\
<DanielRM> That'd have made a difference of Â£3,000 per year as well. :(
<WelshDragon> ouch
<DanielRM> Let's see.
<WelshDragon> I moved out when i was 16, bcame totally independent. Am 20 now like, so my mam's income won't effect my loan entitlement. (nae on speaking terms with dad heh.)
<WelshDragon> Will start college in 2011
<DanielRM> Christ. Just looked at my finances now.
<sum_> just finished uni
<sum_> worked two jobs to get through it
<DanielRM> Counting only guaranteed income gives me a margin of Â£6 after rent's paid.
<WelshDragon> DanielRM, that including or excluding food?
<DanielRM> I'm trying to get overtime at the moment.
<DanielRM> WelshDragon: excluding.
<DanielRM> It's assuming only rent being paid.
<WelshDragon> What do you do as a job?
<DanielRM> Cashier at BrightHouse.
<WelshDragon> and your mrs?
<DanielRM> She's at college.
<WelshDragon> no part time job?
<DanielRM> We've not managed to find one.
<WelshDragon> ah
<WelshDragon> :(
<DanielRM> I applied for a job as a customer service assistant at a bank but I didn't get through sadly.
<WelshDragon> I'm really anxious to start working atm. Been unable to due to anxiety issues but now i try there's nothing available heh
<DanielRM> I applied for a few other jobs in various fields - some youth work with a nearby academy, part-time support librarian and other stuff.
<sum_> could someone give me some help with WWAN gobi drivers?
<jacobw> i can't imagine ever being able to afford to move out
<WelshDragon> jacobw, how old are you?
<jacobw> i'm 19, i have a full time job
<jacobw> i'm taking advantage of my lowish wage to get free courses on the open university at the moment
<DanteAshton> Hello all, I know it's a bit late, but I have a question for ALL of you...would any of you be interested in helping the Ubuntu Advert Team? We need more peeps from the UK :P
<DanielRM> Hmmm.
<WelshDragon> DanielRM, what's ya mrs studying?
<jacobw> DanteAshton, yeah sure :) where do we find out more
<DanielRM> WelshDragon: She's taking A-Levels in politics, law, philosophy and biology.
<WelshDragon> Ah, so similar interests then.
<DanteAshton> Umm...I would show you, but it seems our server just fell over
<DanteAshton> one moment
<DanielRM> Fairly similar. She mainly got her interest in politics because of me.
<DanteAshton> try the wiki instead :P
<DanteAshton> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAdverts
<WelshDragon> DanielRM, what job is she hoping for?
<DanteAshton> We're *hoping* to get this out further then YouTube
<DanielRM> She wants to be a barrister eventually.
<WelshDragon> Ooo... Very rich in the long run then
<WelshDragon> lol
<DanielRM> Not going to be fun trying to finance it in the short-term.
<WelshDragon> True
<DanielRM> It's 10k to take a course with the Bar after you've done your degree.
<jacobw> jesus
<WelshDragon> Ouch
<DanielRM> No student loan or anything either. And I can't recall whether you have to pay up-front. >_<
<DanielRM> Thankfully we've got about five years to go for that anyway.
<WelshDragon> Mind, put your own course and wellfare first. Granted, she's ya mrs but without trying to sound too pessimistic, you've no idea how long it'll last. So try keep own money for self.
<DanielRM> Heh.
<DanielRM> It was our second anniversary on the 17th.
<DanielRM> We couldn't celebrate properly because of the financial issue. XD
<WelshDragon> She'll get some sort of student loan...
<WelshDragon> surely..
<DanielRM> For uni she will.
<WelshDragon> If not... England is worse than i thought it was
<WelshDragon> ah
<DanielRM> Obviously not for college, and I don't believe there to be one for the Bar course as I said.
<WelshDragon> College's offer Bursaries
<DanielRM> She's started getting EMA now but that's being scrapped from next academic year.
<DanielRM> I did an FOI request about that actually.
<DanteAshton> .....wait a mo....EMA is getting scrapped? O.o
<WelshDragon> And even for a college, you should at at the very least get a maintenance loan.
<DanielRM> They're tripling the budget of the discretionary support funds and scrapping EMA, but that amounts to a 90% cut.
<DanielRM> WelshDragon: nope, no maintenance loan for college.
<DanteAshton> Oh god...
<DanielRM> DanteAshton: you in college?
<WelshDragon> DanielRM, I'm entitled to a maintenance loan if i go to aberdeen college :s
<DanteAshton> Yes I am, most of my friends NEED EMA to get to College in the first place...
<sam_010203> anyone here???  im having trouble with pidgin and empathy.  for some reason they wont connect. saying unable to validate certificate.    any ideas?
<DanielRM> DanteAshton: what year are you in?
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<DanteAshton> Isn't a case of years, really. I'm doing what they call a 'National Extended Diploma'
<sam_010203> nos da brobostigon
<DanielRM> DanteAshton: ah.
<brobostigon> nos da sam_010203
<jacobw> sam_010203, this is a known bug
<sam_010203> sws os gwelwch yn dda cariad
<DanteAshton> DanielRM: Are you quite sure EMA is going down then?
<WelshDragon> DanteAshton, national extended? :s How many years does it take to complete at least? :s
<sam_010203> jacobw,   so what can i do to fix it.
<DanielRM> DanteAshton: basically EMA for this academic year's still in place. From next year onwards it's scrapped.
<DanteAshton> 2, though it used to take 6. They've crunched it down
<DanteAshton> God knows I get about two to four hours sleep per night, with my duties to the Ubuntu team on top of that
<DanielRM> I remember walking down the street next to the local college after reading it'd been scrapped.
<jacobw> you need more sleep than that DanteAshton
<WelshDragon> DanteAshton, Ah. National Extended Diploma is new to me. I'll be doing a National Certificate and then a Higher National Diploma in college.
<DanteAshton> Which reminds me...can anyone recommend a good
<DanielRM> I was so angry and depressed at the same time. I don't get it now since I'm in uni, but I relied on it through sixth form and I feel furious on behalf of people currently in college.
<DanteAshton> ....return key <.<
<sam_010203> WelshDragon,   where in wales are you?
<DanteAshton> It WAS National Diploma...but I think they took the rack to it...
<WelshDragon> sam_010203, County name is Powys. It's Mid Wales. A small-ish town called Newtown.
<sam_010203> tin siarad cymraeg?
<WelshDragon> sam_010203, I understand a little bit of it. But i can't hold a conversation in welsh.
<sam_010203> WelshDragon,   ok ehehe
<DanteAshton> As I was going to say before my keyboard interuppted me...can anyone recommend a good Linux/Ubuntu-based course of whatever description? I'd like to get some Linux certs. in my CV...as that is kind of my preferred job when I leave College.
<WelshDragon> sam_010203, where are you from?
<AlanBell> there are LPI courses DanteAshton
<AlanBell> however if I was interviewing I would rather see a commit log than a certificate!
<sam_010203> WelshDragon,   originally from RAF Valley, then moved to South
<DanteAshton> True...*sigh* oh I don't know.
<WelshDragon> sam_010203, Ah. Only been to anglesey once for a wedding. Everyone here speaks english. Wish i knew the welsh language though.
<diplo> I always employed people on experience and not qualifications
<sam_010203> welsh, then learn it lol
<WelshDragon> sam_010203, it's hard! lol
<diplo> And i have no qualifications but found a job easily with my past experience
<WelshDragon> sam_010203, like i said i know a little bit from trying to learn it. But then it got too complicated :s
<sam_010203> lol  it is hard   i cant write very welsh   but i can speak it.  i went to welsh school from age 2 - 18
<DanteAshton> Well....if I'm honest, I'm in a difficult position, I'd really love to get a job centred around Linux, but my history has always been one of technician, not programmer
<DanteAshton> :/
<WelshDragon> sam_010203, Where i was born and brought up -used- to be England in olden times. So the english lanuage and stuck and no welsh people really live here. So i never got to learn it properly :s
<jacobw> sam_010203, have you tried using the version of pidgin from the pidgin developers ppa, https://launchpad.net/~pidgin-developers/+archive/ppa/
<diplo> Sysadmin roles, just start playing with stuff you want to do DanteAshton and get comfortable with it
<diplo> know enough scripting rather than programming to get you by
<TheOpenSourcerer> DanteAshton: You do not have to commit "code". There are lots of other aspects required...
<sam_010203> jacobw,   im looking at it now...
<diplo> that's all i ever did and it's done me well
<sam_010203> jacobw,  seems there is a few problems with it
<sam_010203> gonna run an update after i installed it
<DanteAshton> btw, if this LoCo ever needs a technical writer/graphics artist :P
<WelshDragon> lol
<DanteAshton> sysadmin is preferred, as it meshes together both aspects...but I'm really lost on where to begin with that
<TheOpenSourcerer> DanteAshton: Here's a great example that was sent to the Inkscape mailing list today: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=AANLkTi%3Dt3m%2BMN8pi2BoKAitGDjfHxyXraRbNUY%2BQ2bEE%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=inkscape-devel
<DanteAshton> :P
<jacobw> goodnight all
<TheOpenSourcerer> You need to scroll down, sourceforge is rather crap at mailing lists...
<DanteAshton> I have done...and I do find that very interesting
<DanteAshton> Love the name, by the way
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Conjured on a stroll *to* my local.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am "old" BTW > 40
<WelshDragon>  TheOpenSourcerer you age is?
<DanteAshton> and I am what some call young: 20.
<TheOpenSourcerer> 45 currently
<sam_010203> im only a lad too... ;)
<DanteAshton> Though, I already have a wheelchair and a walking stick, so I look a lot older :P
<AlanBell> DanteAshton: funnily enough we have a hack day on the new website where technical writers and graphics artists might be able to display their skills
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer: Looking well for it though. :)
<WelshDragon> TheOpenSourcerer, ah. Not -that- old then heh. I tend to get on with young women and old men. And argue with old women and young men heh.
<DanteAshton> Alan, that sounds just like my cup of tea...where do I sign up?
<AlanBell> DanteAshton: and there is another interesting project in the -accessibilty team which might be right up your street
<TheOpenSourcerer> JamesTait: I thank you sir! Please tell Mrs TheOpenSourcerer
<DanteAshton> WelshDragon, how do you get along with transvestites, then? :P
<DanteAshton> Do tell, Alan...
<TheOpenSourcerer> !omg
<lubotu3> Please don't use "LOL" and "OMG" and so forth on a regular basis. This is IRC, not IM, and using those lines on their own is not required, and it is rather annoying to the rest of the people in the channel; thanks.
<DanteAshton> Oooh....a bot.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not what I was intending...
<AlanBell> DanteAshton: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2010-November/027677.html
<WelshDragon> DanteAshton, i've never met one lmao. The welsh are normal. We don't have transvestities :p
<DanteAshton> That, my dear boy, is exactly why the rest of the world think the Welsh are mad :P
<sam_010203> Welsh. not in the north we dont. but in the south.  we have tons of trannies.  actually one of my good friends is a tranny.
<TheOpenSourcerer> !ooh
<DanteAshton> !ahh
<TheOpenSourcerer> !hmm
<JamesTait> !Cantona
<WelshDragon> !Ooo la la
<AlanBell> !botabuse
<lubotu3> Please investigate with me only with "/msg ubottu Bot" or in #ubuntu-bots.  Search for factoids with "/msg ubottu !search factoid".
<sam_010203> WelshDragon,    dont listen to them.  we are not strange.  best place in the world is wales. we have our own language, our own culture and a love for sheep that only therapy can fix.
<WelshDragon> sam_010203, yus!
<AlanBell> there is a #ubuntu-cym channel for our friends from the other side of Offas Dyke
<DanteAshton> Everyone, I have been tired, cold, wet and misrible...and I come in here for the first time and suddenly I feel like I've got a hot cuppa and a good laugh, thank you! :D
 * TheOpenSourcerer has set up numerous phone calls tomorrow. As he won't be driving very far...
<sam_010203> where is offas dyke?
 * TheOpenSourcerer has also just got back from a very nice evening at his local hostelry.
<AlanBell> left hand side of England
<TheOpenSourcerer> (hic)
<WelshDragon> AlanBell, but if we kept to that channel, we'd not be able to spread the great welshness across the uk :P
<AlanBell> we dug a little ditch to keep the welsh out, and a 3ft wall at the top to keep back the scots
<sam_010203> AlanBell,   never been to England. never felt the need to go there.
<AlanBell> WelshDragon: oh, you are most welcome here as well
<bigcalm> sam_010203: not missing much :)
<DanielRM> Argh.
<WelshDragon> AlanBell, uh huh... that's why you dug a ditch... lol
<DanielRM> I hate it when you can't save a PDF.
<sam_010203> <3 wales too much.  lol  love calling my bank in welsh, calling the water company in welsh, and calling into the post office and speaking welsh to them too.  lol   annoys all the english immigrants here.
<DanielRM> I don't want to read it through their rubbish webpage.
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offa's_Dyke
<WelshDragon> AlanBell, you forget well live amongst the mountains. A little ditch isn't going to stop us ;)
<DanielRM> Maybe I can find the paper somewhere on JSTOR.
<sam_010203> lol AlanBell   not exactly the great wall is it ~ hehe
<AlanBell> we don't do things by halves
<DanteAshton> AlanBell: Whats this accessabilty thing you were going on about then?
<WelshDragon> DanielRM, doesn't OO edit  PDF's?
<AlanBell> DanteAshton: join #ubuntu-accessibility
<TheOpenSourcerer> DanteAshton: Here is another example of not needing software development skills: Bug 406626
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 406626 in Gnome Documentation "Deleted Items Folder inconsistently named in en_GB localisation" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406626
<DanielRM> Hmmm, JSTOR won't have it actually. So I'm probably screwed.
<DanielRM> WelshDragon: it's a PDF embedded in a page.
<DanteAshton> I really do like that bot...
<DanielRM> WelshDragon: can't save it and can't print it.
<WelshDragon>  DanielRM, ah.... Can you nae find the link if you view the source?
<DanielRM> I'm having a look through at the moment.
<TheOpenSourcerer> News: Motorola splitting into two companies: http://www.bgr.com/2010/11/30/motorola-to-finally-split-on-january-4th/
<WelshDragon> AlanBell... Just out of interest, is Offa's dyke the only thing you know about Wales?
<Azelphur> Something wicked happened resolving 'ppa.launchpad.net:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
<Azelphur> anyone know what causes that? :S
<Azelphur> when doing an update
<DanielRM> And it redirects to the login page.
<DanielRM> Bugger.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have heard it rains a lot in Wales too. (It did when I tried camping in Brecon...)
<WelshDragon> TheOpenSourcerer, it's been snowing alot more recently. The town where i lived was the coldest place in the UK two days ago \o/ ...... which froze the pipes and broke my boiler =.=
<WelshDragon> live*
<AlanBell> WelshDragon: I am full of useful facts about Wales, such as: Welsh has 56 words for rain
<WelshDragon> AlanBell, No we don't lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Is a pseudo bot.
<DanielRM> I can't even remember what essay I'm writing now.
<WelshDragon> lol DanielRM I would say retrace your steps but all you've been doing is sitting in a seat :s
<DanielRM> Ah, that was it.
<DanielRM> I was torn between two.
<DanielRM> ?Social exclusion? means the same as ?relative poverty? (discuss)
<DanielRM> How useful is the concept of 'social class' in explaining stratification in UK society?
<WelshDragon> Both of them are too deep for me.
<DanielRM> I'd decided on the first but since that's leading me to horrible repositories for my sources I think I'll shift to the other.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wikileaks says that the DDoS attack this morning was pummelling its servers at 10 gigabits per second... : http://is.gd/i0Tm5
<DanielRM> I'm considering this one for my international history module:
<DanielRM> 3. ?The Bolshevik victory in the 1917 Russian Revolution can be attributed to one over-riding factor: success in manipulating the social, economic and political chaos left behind by the fall of the Tsarist regime?. Discuss.
<DanielRM> Blimey.
<WelshDragon> They should just start calling em DoS attacks. As nobody does -just- a DoS attack anymore.
<DanielRM> I like saying DDoS though.
<DanteAshton> Bit pointless really...
<DanteAshton> It's kind of like driving a nail home....into a mile high giant
<TheOpenSourcerer> You need to know about "The Alans" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans :-D
<bigcalm> Small pebble is what I remember from QI
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone have a __GOOD__ link to how to set up OpenLDAP for SSO on Ubuntu? I'm wanting to do just email to start with. All I have read is out-of-date or just wrong.
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, I was going to ask the same Q tomorrow at work, let me know if you find anything good :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I built a VM, got do far then it all went *badly* wrong when it got to SASL...
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\do\so
<DanielRM> OK, I'm not reading the paper I just found.
<DanielRM> The abstract alone makes me consider dropping out of uni and spending the rest of my life asking if people want fries with that.
<andylockran> Evening guys
<bigcalm> Morning
<andylockran> afternoon
<TheOpenSourcerer> "This blocking pattern means the cold weather could stay for up to two weeks, say BBC meteorologists." http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/hi/news/newsid_9223000/9223841.stm
<andylockran> how's things?
<bigcalm> Cold and white
<bigcalm> Aaaaaaaaaand it's just started snowing again
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - on a completely different and far more interesting note... http://www.colorzilla.com/gradient-editor/
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: sweet
<DanteAshton> It's just icy here...
<bigcalm> Bookmarked for later enjoyment
<sam_010203> Im having problems with Pidgin, can anyone help....  wont seem to connect~ emesene and empathy are all the same...  :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> sam_010203: I'm using Pidgin right now
<sam_010203> TheOpenSourcerer,   yeah. thanks. not really help ~! LOL   i dont know why mine aint working....
<TheOpenSourcerer> This message was bought to you by the app "pidgin" and the OS Ubuntu 10.10 :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ooops - Me thinks He's in some deep doodoos: http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/30/wikileaks-julian-assange/
<DanteAshton> Where did all that rape nonsense come from, anyway?
<TheOpenSourcerer> A rather upset Government I should think.
<DanteAshton> Figures...
<DanteAshton> Night, all...
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-01
<DanielRM> Anyone awake?
<dutchie> technically, yes
<sam_010203> hello...
<DanielRM> Any experience with VPNs?
<dutchie> old forgotten experience
<DanielRM> Friend's trying to get a recommendation for a UK-based one.
<DanielRM> His sister's moving to France and wants iPlayer access.
<shauno> not familiar with any hosted options myself.  I just made sure to get a UK-based vps
<DanielRM> Fair enough.
<Azelphur> yea, bitfolk do good VPS's :p
<Azelphur> or you can get one off Daviey but paying him is fun :D
<shauno> bitfolk would be my recommendation for that route too
<Azelphur> plus you can do other stuff besides VPN with it, like a bouncer or small website.
<shauno> well proud of myself. 3am and I managed to write route instead of router :)
<dutchie> pah, it's early
<shauno> watching top gear: apocalypse.  and now I wish I owned a car.
<shauno> (well, on paper I do.  but I'd really like one that's on the same continent as me)
<screen-x> morning :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<MichealH> Hey :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> morning all
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> Anyone know a good solicitor
<daubers> ?
<MooDoo> daubers, no i don't but here's the obligatory, everything ok?
<daubers> MooDoo: Estate agent sent someone in to paint a few patches of wall yesterday, they didn't use any covers so have damaged a few things
<MooDoo> daubers, ah :(
<daubers> One of which can't be replaced
<daubers> According to a friend who's a barrister I can do them for negligence if they refuse to repair what they've damaged
<MooDoo> well fingers crosed then
<daubers> Yep, just have to try and not get too shouty at the estate agents when i can ring them
<daubers> At least this ig doo news (for me anyway) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11879051
<MooDoo> yay o/
<screen-x> daubers: :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning peeps!
<screen-x> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<diplo> Morning all
<screen-x> mmmm warm tea in cold hands
<MooDoo> lovely
<screen-x> and jet on last.fm :)
<daubers> "jet"?
<screen-x> daubers: http://www.last.fm/music/Jet
<DanielRM> Morning.
<daubers> screen-x: I see
 * daubers puts on the soundtrack to "The Muppets Christmas Carol"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/11/24/armys-revolutionary-rifle-use-afghanistan/
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: That's been in the works for a little while. They've also got a sniper rifle coming out soon that can help take in account things like drift over ranges of greater than 3000ft
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/futuristic_guns_feature/
<bigcalm> Ahoy hoy!
<MooDoo> hullo
<nperry> Morning all :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Here's a quick Q... Is there an easy way to reset an Ubuntu [server in this instance] back to a "default/as first installed" state?
<MartijnVdS> Don't you really want preseeded installs? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Probably... What's that then?
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Take an image after you've installed it (first time) and then just restore the image?
<daubers> (dd is your friend)
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: That is a good idea if I have a time machine ;-)
<nperry> I've got one.
<MartijnVdS> partimage is more of your friend
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: preseeded installs = automatic (usually network) install with a script to answer all questions that come up
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: for automated installs
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: that's what I do at work all the time :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - I see.
<MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/hppa/preseed-contents.html
<daubers> Right, ultimatum given to estate agents, they have 45 minutes left to get back to me
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks, I think I will use daubers' suggestion and just go and build a nice new clean VM then clone it before I break it again.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that help.ubuntu.com link might be useful as well :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am reading it now MartijnVdS
<nperry> daubers: Did they give you notice about coming in to paint?
<MartijnVdS> it's too cold to paint anyway L(
<MartijnVdS> :)
<nperry> its to cold to function :./
<nperry> caffeine hasn't kicked in yet.
<screen-x> TheOpenSourcerer: pre-seed would prob take longer, but is really handy once you have it set up.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, it would be useful once a preseed file is built. I can see that.
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.arsgeek.com/2006/09/19/ubuntu-tricks-how-to-generate-a-list-of-installed-packages-and-use-it-to-reinstall-packages/
<gord> heh, i have to put in my password four times on boot now
<Ng> that is three times too many!
<MartijnVdS> gord: crypted partitions?
<gord> Ng, this is with auto-login too ;)
<gord> MartijnVdS, yeah, one of them
<Ng> gord: other than crypto, what else?!
<gord> i think its gwibber/empathy. the fourth one is new though
<screen-x> gord: gnome keyring?
<gord> screen-x, well gwibber/empathy are gnome keyring based
<popey> morning all
<screen-x> morning popey
<screen-x> gord: so you shouldn't need to enter a password for either..
 * daubers waits for the estate agent to ring back again
<wintellect> daubers: buying? selling? both?
<kazade> morning all
<nperry> daubers: I don't think they'll do anything, if they gave you notice of them coming in...
<kazade> I actually have an Ubuntu related question! \o/
<kazade> Does anyone know how to install the correct nvidia binary driver without using Jockey?  (jockey-gtk and jockey-text are borked on my Natty install)
<kazade> It's running nouveau atm
<daubers> nperry: They didn't. They've also failed in their care of duty to the occupants belongings, which makes them negligent
<nperry> sudo apt-get install nvidia-current
<kazade> nperry, I tried that.. but it didn't work :(
<daubers> wintellect: Screaming
<nperry> daubers: Thats the first thing, Your contract should say they have to give you 24hrs notice to access the flat/house
<nperry> kazade: What does it say
<daubers> nperry: Yup. They've also done this before and I've told them if it happens again I won't complain, I'll call the police for having someone entering the flat without my permission
<kazade> nperry, it installs, but when I reboot I get nouveau, if I remove nouveau I get no X
<kazade> nperry, I think I'm supposed to run nvidia-xconfig to setup xorg.conf, but nvidia-xconfig doesn't exist and I can't find it anywhere
<nperry> kazade: Odd thats what you are meant to run..
<nperry> Have you tried running gksudo nvidia-settigns
<kazade> yeah, it tells me to run nvidia-xconfig
<nperry> Thats what I though would happen
<nperry> !nvidia > nperry
<lubotu3> nperry, please see my private message
<czajkowski> aloha
<nperry> kazade: are you ruinng nvidia-xonconfig under sudo?
<nperry> Hello czajkowski
<MooDoo> czajkowski, hello :) hope you're well
<kazade> nperry, I found nvidia-xconfig but it's not on the path
<kazade> it's in something like /usr/lib/nvidia-current/bin
<czajkowski> all good thanks
 * popey tickles kazade 
<daubers> woot
 * daubers wins
<daubers> Just need repair quotes
<screen-x> :D
<MartijnVdS> "repair quotes"
<screen-x> daubers: without needing legal people?
<daubers> screen-x: Yup
<screen-x> daubers: double win :)
<daubers> screen-x: Shout enough people give you what you want so you just go away
<daubers> Also got them to agree that if someone does come into the flat without any notice again, I shouldn't be phoning them, I should go straight to the police and press charges
<screen-x> daubers: should get it into the contract that they have to ask before sending contractors round
<daubers> screen-x: It is
<screen-x> so you have breach of contract already..
<kazade> I'm fairly sure it's law, not just contractual. ..
<daubers> screen-x: Yup, thats why I didn't need legal people
<nperry> kazade: Your right it is law. When I had a water leak in my old flat, I had to sign a wavier as they hadn't given me the notice to come into the flat
 * kazade throws his laptop out of the window. ARRRRGHH
<kazade> So I finally got the sodding nvidia drivers to kick in, and I can't get past plymouth!
<kazade> It just freezes up, and I can't switch VT
<kazade> only ctrl+alt+del
<directhex> nvidia drivers don't work with plymouth
<directhex> bootsplash on maverick with nvidia is text-based
<kazade> well, ok, it gives me that big horrible ubuntu logo instead of the high res one
<popey> that is normal
<popey> for nvidia
<kazade> popey, I know, but it doesn't get past that
<kazade> ever
<kazade> sigh, gonna just stuck with nouveau
<popey> odd
<kazade> popey, this is natty
<popey> oh
<popey> ignore me then
<kazade> I just fancied testing the new unity
<kazade> coz it crashes badly on nouveau
<popey> which reminds me, i downloaded the Ubuntu Light ISO last night
 * kazade wonders why in the world Ubuntu still doesn't have a simple way of booting vesa mode
 * MartijnVdS wonders why in the world people want vesa mode
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/light/ is the contents of the Ubuntu light iso
<kazade> MartijnVdS, for when your graphics drivers mess up?
<MartijnVdS> kazade: hasn't happened to me in a long time.. and if X screws up you get an "X failed to start" vesa mode X
<MartijnVdS> which lets you repair your X config, etc.
<kazade> not if your nvidia drivers crash your system ;)
<MartijnVdS> nvidia, there's your problem
<kazade> of course, but it would far nicer if Ubuntu gave you a way out
<kazade> Windows does...
<kazade> that's like when I complained about being stuck at low resolutions when games crash. My #1 response was "fix the game"
<kazade> obviously, the game is broken, but it's not great if the OS doesn't deal with it
<nperry> kazade: You can install the 3d nouveau driver from xorg edgers
<nperry> Not tired it but unity is reported to work like a dream on it
<nperry> !info unity natty
<lubotu3> unity (source: unity): Interface for Ubuntu Desktop Edition. In component main, is optional. Version 3.2.0-0ubuntu3 (natty), package size 267 kB, installed size 1056 kB
<kazade> nperry, that's what I'm running :)
 * kazade is now wondering if that's why the nvidia drivers didn't work
<nperry> I installed the nvidia current on my natty install fine last night.. And unity works.. apart from random compiz crashes
<nperry> But you do get a horrible plymouth boot as nvidia driver is so closed down :(
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/light/install/sources.list interesting
<popey> http://dell-mini.archive.canonical.com/pool/ also interesting
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/light/pool/main/d/dell-recovery/ also
<daubers> popey: Hmm... if you try and open sources.list it starts up the software sources gui
<daubers> Not noticed that before
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> daubers: any luch with the auctioneers?
<daubers> czajkowski: Auctioneers?
<czajkowski> was that you this morning re paint
<daubers> Oh! Estate agents
<daubers> They're paying to get the damage repaired and have agreed that if anyone (they're contractor or not) enters my flat again without 24 hours notice and me or the missus present, I can skip them and go straight to the police
<daubers> Just hoping my poor guitar can be repaired now :(
<czajkowski> :(
<daubers> shall take it to the repair shops first thing tomorrow and get some quotes
<daubers> suspect it will be Â£x00's
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is there a documentation to setup third party repositories ?
<popey> you want to create a repository?
<kaushal> popey: yeah
<kaushal> popey: I already have a local ubuntu mirror
<kaushal> in my office
<directhex> daubers: what happened?
<popey> http://wiki.debian.org/HowToSetupADebianRepository kaushal
<popey> that took 10 seconds with google
<daubers> directhex: Idiot contractors painting without us knowing and not laying dust sheets
<daubers> directhex: Gloss paint all over my lovely guitar :(
<popey> ouch
<popey> will they pay up?
<daubers> Yup, if they don't I've already told them I'll take them to court for negligence, at which point they promised to pay up
<kazade> hmm, anyone know how to run a command from one VT to affect another? (e.g. run compiz --replace from ctrl+alt+f1)
<kazade> I managed to screw up my desktop while reporting it as a bug :)
<ali1234> it's not so simple when you are talking about X11 apps
<kazade> aha, I used some ingenuity
<kazade> I'd lost all keyboard input and the menus were covered by a crashed window
<kazade> so I added an application launcher for the Appearance settings ;)
<kazade> so then I could access it with the mouse
 * kazade realizes that njpatel was in here and exactly the guy to talk to..
<daubers> http://twitpic.com/3bv9s9 :(
<screen-x> daubers: :(
<popey> daubers: how stupid
<daubers> popey: I know :( Had to take 2 hours off work in order to ship it around to places tomorrow too
<andylockran> morning
<andylockran> guys I have two computers on the LAN.. one is an ubuntu box with all my vpns setup, the other is a windows 7 desktop
<popey> congratulations andylockran
<popey> have a sweet
<screen-x> andylockran: wubi can fix that for you
<andylockran> what routing config would allow me to route the desktop through the ubuntu machine to get the vpns - should I add the vpns manually to the win 7 machine - telling them the gw is the ubuntu machine - or change the default gw?
<screen-x> andylockran: add static routes to the windows box
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: you'd have to tell it to route certain IPs to the ubuntu box
<popey> _to_ the windows box?
<popey> you sure?
<popey> oh, hang on, i misinterpreted "to"
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: and you'd have to tell the Ubuntu box to accept/route that traffic over the vpn
<screen-x> popey: heh ambiguous in that context
<andylockran> yeah, I've got the ubuntu box net.ipv4.ip_forward = 1
<screen-x> andylockran: you'd also have to advertise your lan to the VPNs, so that vpn clients have a route to your windows box.
<screen-x> andylockran: unless you use NAT, but that makes kittens sad.
<andylockran> I've added the route to the windows box, but when doing TRACERT.EXE on it, it still goes to the default gw first
<andylockran> pants.
<screen-x> andylockran: your static routes should be preferred, as they are more specific than the default route.
<dogmatic69> anyone know how i would install a new version of apc for php
<dogmatic69> it says "You are running an older version of APC (3.1.3p1), newer version 3.1.6 is available at http://pecl.php.net/package/APC/3.1.6"
<dogmatic69> and this does not seem to have anything newer https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php-apc
<awilkins> Grrr. Dammit, why doesn't the standard libxml library include the fricking schema for XML itself in the catalog
<screen-x> dogmatic69: do you have to use the newer version?
<dogmatic69> i dont *have* to, but i like new stuff
<screen-x> dogmatic69: create a ppa for it :)
<andylockran> is setting up ubutu as a router more difficult than I'm thinking it is?
<andylockran> i.e. - I can't just turn on ip forwarding and point routes at it?
<popey> no, its easy
<popey> i had a viglen as my router for some time
<popey> running ubuntu
<andylockran> wonder where I'm falling down then..
<andylockran> got the local-LAN interface as 192.168.1.125, and the vpn endpoint as 192.168.8.14
<andylockran> vpn server is 192.168.8.1 that provides the route to 10.10.10.0/24
<andylockran> routes on the win7 client are "route ADD 192.168.8.0/24 192.168.1.125, and 'route ADD 10.10.10.0/24 192.168.8.1'
<dogmatic69> screen-x: i only found out yesterday what a ppa is, no clue how to make one
<daubers> How weird
<daubers> You can now buy customised M&Ms
<AlanBell> !ppa
<lubotu3> A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and should be used at your own risk.
<dogmatic69> so the ppa's could have doggy code in them?
<daubers> !woof
<dogmatic69> *dodgy
<AlanBell> yes, they could
<dogmatic69> but ones from 'official' things should be fine?
<AlanBell> they tend not to have anything intentionally malicious
<dogmatic69> cool
<AlanBell> but there is nothing stopping someone putting something really bad in one
<dogmatic69> ubuntu removes ones that people moan about i guess
<AlanBell> more likely you will find stuff that accidentally breaks things
<dogmatic69> ok
<AlanBell> think of launchpad ppas as like little projects on sourceforge
<Ng> daubers: customised how? can you have them printed with different letters? ;)
<daubers> Ng: http://www.mymms.co.uk/
<Ng> heh
<daubers> shame it's letters only, or I'd get some done with the circle of friends on for the christmas do
<daubers> Oooooh....
 * daubers just accepted a delivery for a big box of customised USB sticks in swanky magnetically closing plastic boxes
<dogmatic69> nice
<czajkowski> does anyone need Ubuntu stickers
<daubers> o/
<czajkowski> I also have a stash of Open stack ones as well
<daubers> hang on, define "need"
<czajkowski> need/want
<daubers> oh, then o/
<czajkowski> daubers: pm addrss will post you some
<daubers> \o/
<samelco> hi ubuntu-uk, I tried to install gparted on 8.10(intrepid) but i am getting 404 not found
<samelco> albeit in a vbox, my intention is to change the boot flag of a fat32 partion on a usb HD so i can install 10.04 from it
<samelco> but cant see the usb drive anyhoo so i failed there
<samelco> i have this other problem, even though i have screensaver off and powermanagement off the screen goes off after 10 minutes
<daubers> !8.10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid Ibex) was the ninth release of Ubuntu. End Of Life: April 30th, 2010. See !eol and !upgrade for more details.
<daubers> !eol
<lubotu3> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<samelco> !10.04
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid Lynx) was the twelfth release of Ubuntu. Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/10.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1004
<samelco> !10.04 !eol
<SuperBoy> another bot..?
<SuperBoy> oh wait, wrong channel D:
<samelco> !10.04 eol
<samelco> !eol 10.04
<popey> enough
<popey> 10.04 desktop has 3 years support, server has 5 years
<popey> work forwards from april 2010
<samelco> enough?
<popey> poking the bot
<JamesTait> !botabuse
<lubotu3> Please investigate with me only with "/msg ubottu Bot" or in #ubuntu-bots.  Search for factoids with "/msg ubottu !search factoid".
<popey> so, whats the exact issue you have right now samelco ?
<JamesTait> Ah, that must be in the other channel as well.
<samelco> sorry i did not know
<samelco> i will go
<JamesTait> I really need to learn to type quicker so people don't leave before I'm finished.
<popey> I'd just say "one moment"
<JamesTait> Or just type shorter sentences. :)
<JamesTait> Yeah.
<popey> or that
<popey> Think less.
<popey> Type more.
<popey> no, the other :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Call for Talks at FOSDEM 2011 - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4357
<gord> just tell them to run the following command, then whilst they are busy, type your reply: echo "ReJigging System.. please wait..."; sleep 60; echo "Done!"
 * popey rejigs gord 
<daubers> -bash: !": event not found
<dutchie> more quoting needed
<dutchie> stupid bash quoting
<Laney> hit enter more
<dutchie> o
<dutchie> k
<Ng> hey good people who use the powerline stuff - are they strictly point-to-point? What if you want to join two PCs in different rooms to a router downstairs?
<MartijnVdS> I've heard the performance is bad
<MartijnVdS> (50% of advertised speeds)
<gord> Ng, its not point to point no
<ali1234> afaik they work like the old coax ethernet
<gord> buuuut in my house the speeds suck, 300kbps suck.
<Ng> gord: interesting
<gord> had such huge hopes for it too :( thinking that the 200mbit ones prolly give much better speeds seeing as they are incompatible with my 80mbit ones, but they are also lots more expensive
<Ng> hmm
<Ng> well I guess I'll get some for my folks and then return them if they suck
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone any idea why ssh terminal sessions to remote systems tend to "lock up" after a period of time whereas a connection to my server on this LAN does not? The remote terms don't disconnect, they just become frozen...
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i get that now and then
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Do you have any idea what causes it? I'm wondering if it's something to do with tcpkeepalive packets and routers filtering them or something?
<popey> i have no clue
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have recently chnaged my router, but the same problem occurs.
<popey> it's often when i CTRL+A,D from screen, but dont disconnect from a server
<popey> then go to bed
<popey> I recently changed my router (previously had a linux box) and it only started happening then
<ali1234> i recently changed my router and got this
<ali1234> changed from a linux based router to some vxworks junk
<gord> popey, where did yo uget the vendetta thing from?
<popey> gord: a friend of the author
<gord> huh, not in my software centre
<popey> :(
<popey> i didnt check hence why I said apparently
<popey> he did imply that they had trouble getting it in
<gord> i'm on natty though, maybe its in maverick?
<popey> ah, yes
<gord> interesting though regardless
<popey> ya
<dutchie> it's in my maverick
<gord> i would guess a lot of people are anti-it because its not open source... maybe i'm getting old but i just don't care =\ would be nice if there were open source games as fun as closed source ones, but t here aren't so i guess i'll pay for closed source ones
<daubers> gord: You have to make a point by not buying any and then be thoroughly annoyed when the publishers just ignore you anyway! Viva la revolution!!!
<nperry> !info gnome3-session natty
<lubotu3> gnome3-session (source: gnome-session): The GNOME Session Manager - GNOME 3 session. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.32.1-0ubuntu3 (natty), package size 2 kB, installed size 132 kB
<diplo> http://cupsizechoir.com/
<diplo> Slightly NSFW
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> WTF?!
<Azelphur> http://ui12.gamespot.com/1515/sendlink_2.jpg :D
<bigcalm> Azelphur: hah
<Phineas> i have returned
<gord> more snowing \o/
 * czajkowski stabs gord at being happy at this 
<czajkowski> hmm
<Phineas> more snow its bloody hot here
<Phineas> gord,  more snow its bloody hot here
 * Phineas sips his mint hot cocoa
<Laney> more snow? bah!
 * Laney is on crutches
<Phineas> czajkowski, lucky for me no snow but sun sun sun all day
 * Phineas has a text
<Phineas> now that is weird?
<daubers> Is there a easy way to get the used size of a filesystem without mounting the device or calling fdisk?
<MartijnVdS> not really
<popey> cfdisk :)
<czajkowski> popey: is there an argos in  your area, cant seem to get the site to work here atm
<popey> yes
<MartijnVdS> popey: libparted 8-)
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<popey> there is one in aldershot town centre
<czajkowski> ohh
<popey> not far from your house
<czajkowski> even handier
<popey> iirc
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> I found the town centre on Sunday
<popey> crap isnt it?
<daubers> bah
<czajkowski> tis rather small
<czajkowski> the shopping centre is empty nearly
<nperry> czajkowski: welcome to england, where town centres have been overtaken by retail parks.
<nperry> town centres now consit of phone shop, game shops, hairdressers and chairty shops.
<dogmatic69> the uk has loads of charity shops
<dogmatic69> whats up with that?
<popey> our retail sector is bombing
<popey> thus shop front is cheap because there's an abundance of it
<popey> charities need cheap shop fronts
<czajkowski> aye same back home
<jacobw> charity shops need to spread the word about the great clothes they have :)
<Phineas> jacobw,  charity shops are hot spots for video games, saw a good Rayman game in the other day
<Phineas> popey,  charity shops are hosspots for seccond hand games
<jacobw> spent ages clearing the road outside and now its bloody snowing again :(
<Phineas> jacobw,  lucky for me, bloody hot sun here
<jacobw> :o
<dutchie> Phineas: where is here?
<Phineas> dutchie,  Danville (not in the USA), are you dutch?
<dutchie> no
<Phineas> any i gotta go bye
<jacobw> i'm secretly pleased that the gym has shut because of the snow, because i'm knackered from previous visits but i don't want to feel guilty about missing classes
<jacobw> closure due to snow satisfies all these conditions :)
<dogmatic69> lol
 * MartijnVdS ROFLs at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2506-iPhone-Games
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> anyone know if its possible to make a script / alias to open up a terminal with say 5 tabs and run commands in each tab?
<MartijnVdS> I'd use screen instead of a terminal with tabs
<MartijnVdS> then it's easy
<danfish> or even better IMO - byobu
<daubers> byobu \o/
<daubers> Also, evening
<cps> Evening peeps :)
<will_> evening
<danfish> lo daubers et al
<Curly_Q> Is anyone here familiar with Aptosid Linux distro? Any comments?
<Curly_Q> Aptosid seems to cover lots of bases with drivers for lots of hardware.
<Curly_Q> The URL for Aptosid is:   http://www.aptosid.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=396
<nperry> But we are a group of people that like/use ubuntu.
<Curly_Q> That's OK. I use Kubuntu myself.
<Curly_Q> I use many Operating Systems.
<Curly_Q> I am not prejudiced.
<nperry> No and nor am I.
<nperry> Anyway my tea is burning..
<Curly_Q> Green tea?
<Curly_Q> Green tea is high in anti-oxidents.
<Curly_Q> Good for you and a cancer inhibiter.
<Curly_Q> http://www.righthealth.com/topic/Green_Tea_Side_Effects?p=l&as=goog&ac=519&kgl=19821599
<Curly_Q> Anyway have a nice day folks.
<DanielRM> :-/
<DanielRM> That was quite strange.
<nperry> Thats what i thought DanielRM :/
<X3N> Hmmmmmmmm
<finelytuned> evening all
<dogmatic69> sup
<jacobw> quick question, how can i find and replace in list a filenames from terminal
<jacobw> well, find and replace in a directory i suppose
<finelytuned> jacobw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zx7UE70Ehs
<finelytuned> theres a short tutorial for terminal commands
<dwatkins> hi folks, does anyone have an ASUS Eee 901 running a recent linux kernel? I get 'No soundcard found' in my dmesg.
<nperry> ohhhh unity update seems stable
<nperry> time to try gnome3
 * MartijnVdS pokes natty.. go away stupid "global menu"
<oly> nperry, are you compiling gnome3 ?
<oly> would not mind knowing of a upto date ppa for gnome-shell
<oly> been trying the ricotz one but i am not convinced its updated
<oly> as i never get updtates in synaptics and its so god damn slow on this laptop it must have some bugs
<MartijnVdS> oly: upgrade to natty, it has the newest gnome-shell
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't work (for me anyway), but it's there
<oly> ah, wanted to stay on 10.10 for now :p
<oly> but i know gnome-shell runs along side existing system nicely just was after some debs so i dont have to compile
<dutchie> i'm fairly sure there is a g-s ppa
<nperry> oly: Im using one in natty repo..
<nperry> MartijnVdS: doesn't work for me either
<nperry> Just boots into my background
<MartijnVdS> ah that's a known bug
<MartijnVdS> see Planet Ubuntu, Jamie Strandboge's post
<nperry> gnome-shell --replace boots into normal gnome2 though
<MartijnVdS> about "bug 683686"
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 683686 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz segfaults with non-standard Default.ini" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683686
<nperry> Lets try that
<nperry> Be right back
<dwatkins> I guess no-one has an ASUS Eee 901, then.
<nperry> Nope didn't work... still went to background, gnome-shell --replace just went to gnome2
<oly> wow gnome shell looks much improved over my last look :p
<oly> looking at some youtube videos from the last month
<ipopey> Lo
<nperry> ah evening popey
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> ipopey: ello
<ipopey> Witches
 * DJones wonders what czajkowski  has said to ipopey for him to say Witches as soon as she speaks
<ipopey> Heh
<ipopey> Stupid spill checker
<czajkowski> :s
<shauno> someone's come down with a case of iThumbs :/
 * czajkowski makes a mental note, no cake for popey 
<ipopey> Icake
<zleap> what is the other port that cups uses one is 631
<ipopey> Didn't know it did
<zleap> i am sure there was another one
<ipopey> Nmap a box running cups to find out
<zleap> my own then
<zleap> can i nmap myself
<ipopey> Of course
<mgdm> 1114?
<mgdm> that's what mine's on
<mgdm> err, no, wait :P
<mgdm> that would be word wrap + process ID
<zleap> i set my firewall up last night so I can ssh in to it from my netbook when thenetbook is using the wireless 3 modem thing
<zleap> i just wondered if it was then possible to print from that, if I connect to my external ip address, port forward to my printer
<ipopey> I wouldn't
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so if I want to print i should just do it directly, or copy a file with scp then print after ssh'ing in
<ipopey> Anyone could potentially print to your machine if you publicise he port surely?
<zleap> ok
<ipopey> How often do you need to remote print?
<zleap> i was just wondering if this was possible
<zleap> what i can do, is ssh in and print that way if i really needed ito
<zleap> it should be possible to port forward from a random port number say 5555 to 631 on address what ever
<ipopey> Sure
<zleap> so that way port 631 is not actually open same was as you may not want to publisize port 22 being open so ssh -p 555 forward to port 22 on the home network
<ipopey> I still wouldn't :)
<zleap> ok
<ipopey> I don't recall ever ever needing to print something at home whilst I am out
<zleap> ok
<ipopey> Fact is i can print whilst out and it will queue up on laptop
<zleap> ok
<ipopey> Ten will magically spool to print as soon as i get home
<nperry> ipopey: is it snowing where you are at the moment
<zleap> cool
<ipopey> dunno, check the camera :)
<ipopey> http://popey.com/webcam/
<ipopey> Doesn't look like it
<ipopey> Of course I could get up and look
<shauno> wow.  now that's taking not having windows to an extreme
<Darael> Nope, no falling snow on the popeycam.
<nperry> I'll use your camera at work tomorrow morning, as we are delv'ing near you
<nperry> I'm upset that there is no snowman though
<ipopey> Blinds are closed in this room
<ipopey> Too cold to get up
<UndiFineD> popey, your bot-like :p
<Darael> popey: s/to get up//
<nperry> I hate the news, cold chaos.. Have you looked at other countries, say russia which is -20 at the moment..
<nperry> Now thats cold but it surely isn't chaos
<dogmatic69> i was saying that to someone earlier... places like canada have 100ft of snow and still run like normal
<dogmatic69> here there is 2" and new headline "uk spending 1.8b p/d due to cold"
<nperry> I work with a couple of polish people, every winter all the schools are open and all the airports
<dogmatic69> s/spending/loosing
<shauno> it's completely different places like canada tho
<dogmatic69> its not like a surprise or anything either... winter is every year
<nperry> shauno: but it seems to becoming every winter
<nperry> A couple of years back sometimes during a winter we never had snow
<dogmatic69> true
<shauno> I lived in michigan for a few years.  they had a pretty decent infrastructure in place to deal with snow.  they needed to, because it was pretty much constant for 4 months.
<shauno> it's entirely different to dealing with something that may hit for a couple of days (or may not)
<nperry> My work is next to local council highway depot, they have used about 50% salt already.. but all the grit lorries are in this evening
<nperry> And that was at half 8
<nperry> shauno: might as well pay, better be safe then sorry
<shauno> I've a feeling it's physically different too, because they don't grit over there.
<nperry> Really, moving back to poland. They are gritting roads 24/7 during winter months
<shauno> where I was in the us/canada, they just plough it and drive on what's left.  you end up with a pretty permanent ground layer thru most the winter
<Pendulum> shauno: we grit in the US
<Pendulum> at least where I am
<shauno> well, they didn't in north michigan.  which is why I think it's handled differently based on quantities
<Pendulum> and while it's not one of the msot heavily snowed areas, we usually get a decent amount of snow (certainly enough that we don't shut down most of the time)
<shauno> then you run into other issues, like people here simply not being comfortable driving on it, and crawling around everywhere making a nuisance of themselves.
<shauno> not saying it couldn't be handled better here.  just that the difference between getting a shock blast, and something constant and predictable, is pretty high
 * Ng idly wonders if anyone has a samsung internet@tv device
<jacobw> i think the british have a strange desire to be disrupted by snow and subconsciously don't prepare for the inevitable snowfall :s
<Jibadeeha> snow is a good excuse for some to work from home
<JamesTait> Fun story about "remote printing".
<JamesTait> Couple of weeks ago I was in Buenos Aires for the Web & Mobile sprint.
<JamesTait> Friday came and I did the online check-in thing.
<JamesTait> I asked Martin, whose apartment we were using, if I could print out the boarding passes.
<JamesTait> "Sure," he says, "the printer's on the network. It's an HP. It's the only one."
<JamesTait> So I printed to the only printer on the network, which was an HP.
<JamesTait> I went to his office, nothing on the printer.
<JamesTait> So we did the usual switch off/on, etc.
<jpds> http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/England/London~2643743/hour_by_hour.html
<JamesTait> I looked at my laptop and there were now two HP printers.
<jacobw> o/ jpds
<JamesTait> So I asked him which one, and sure enough it was the new one.
<jacobw> this happens with Windows and printers JamesTait
<JamesTait> We laughed, and moved on.
<jacobw> every time a printer is connected, it is added to list of network printers
<jacobw> or local printers
<JamesTait> This Monday, one of the guys who was also on the sprint started work, having taken the week after the sprint as holiday.
<JamesTait> My boarding passes had spooled on his laptop, and printed on his HP printer when he got home. :)
<jacobw> ha
<JamesTait> Create smarter technology, and we'll find a dafter way to break it. :)
<jacobw> true JamesTait
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-02
<JamesTait> But in general I have been very impressed with the way printing on Linux has progressed in recent years.
<xapel> when you right click on a folder you have the option to encrypt... is this safe to do on your entire home folder?
<dutchie> wouldn't have thought so
<JamesTait> I'm not sure what the option actually does. I have a feeling it just creates a GPG-encrypted file.
<JamesTait> If that's the case, you wouldn't be able to open the file without first GPG-decrypting it.
<JamesTait> Odd, I don't seem to have the encrypt option at all in my context menu.
<xapel> do you have the cryptsetup package installed?
 * JamesTait checks.
<JamesTait> I'm sure I used to have that option.
<JamesTait> Yes, yes I do.
<JamesTait> I'm currently on an ecryptfs root + ecryptfs home, so I think it's required for me to even be able to boot.
<JamesTait> Or at least to create a bootable initramfs when I do a kernel upgrade.
<xapel> I wanted to encrypt an external drive the other night and I had to install it
<xapel> anyway...we still havn't really solved the mystery as to what the encrypt... option does, whether it's safe to do it on your home folder, and why you don't have it
<JamesTait> No, I was going to try it out and see.
<JamesTait> xapel: Is it this option? http://ur1.ca/2hc73
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] You Know What We Need In The Ubuntu Community? - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/12/02/you-know-what-we-need-in-the-ubuntu-community/
<Billy_D_Kidd> :ping
<AlanBell> no school today here
<PhilT> where's here ?
<popey> morning all
<popey> same here
<popey> Farnborough
<AlanBell> Farnham
<PhilT> business as usual in Northamptonshire
<PhilT> anyone views on a newbie trying to test Natty alpha  report bugs ? (newbie to testing)
<danfish> morning
 * danfish is still very stuck abroad :(
<kazade> morning peeps
<popey> lo
<popey> PhilT: what specifically do you need help with?
<kazade> I've upgraded my girlfriend's netbook to 10.10 - is there any way to get the 10.04 ui back?
<kazade> I know about the 2D option at gdm, but that's not the same (the icons are too big and I have both gnome panels and no tiny window switcher at the top left
<kazade> )
<popey> I know mark (on the podcast) has 10.10 with the 10.04 UI
<kazade> popey: don't suppose you can ask him how?
 * kazade is in trouble for upgrading
<popey> http://twitter.com/#!/marxjohnson
<popey> ask him yourself :)
<PhilT> Popey: I tried the alpha daily build on a netbook to get a look at Unity. Several thinks went wrong with the desktop (elements of it crashing). Next days was worse - most of desktop disappeared. Am I premature ?
<popey> I'm not surprised tbh
<PhilT> so I should wait and lt more experienced hands get it more in shape, or report bugs now ?
<popey> well i wouldn't say that :)
<popey> if you have the time and motivation to help then I'd suggest getting involved sooner rather than later
<popey> might be worth joining the #ubuntu-testing irc channel
<PhilT> Hmm. If I can get a working desktop again from which to file bugs I'll have a go !
<popey> you can file bugs from a non-working desktop too :)
<popey> its just not as easy
<PhilT> true, but I didn't need the pain of command line wifi to get to that point
<popey> hehe
<PhilT> also I was a bit challenged on how to report "unity starts up then the desktop falls apart" as a bug ! I made a video instead.
<MooDoo> hello all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all - from a very snowy GU10. We got dumped on last night... Kids' schools closed. Car under 6" of fresh snow.
<popey> ditto :0
<AlanBell> I have just been digging for chickens
<TheOpenSourcerer> Do you have another timelaps recording popey?
<bigcalm> Oh to be a kid again
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<popey> i will do
<popey> i am keeping every pic
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> alan@wopr:~$ du -hs webcam/archive/
<popey> 2.5G	webcam/archive/
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's great that storage is so cheap now... I saw eBuyer pimping 2TB drives for Â£60 the other day.
<bigcalm> Oh my
<MooDoo> lions and tigers and bear....oh my!
<TheOpenSourcerer> It has started snowing again...
<MooDoo> here to, but i made it to work....
<bigcalm> I've told my parents that I'd set up an rsync to my house for them. Time to hunt for a relyable external storage solution
<TheOpenSourcerer> Forecast was for <8" today here too
<jacobw> TheOpenSourcerer, i've checked the weather forecast for Leeds, 09:00 heavy snow 12:00 heavy snow 15:00 light snow
<bigcalm> Tweet from my boss: OH (son): I love the Prodigy, they've got a song called Smack Your Female Dog Up
<TheOpenSourcerer> I hope the RAT will be running on Saturday night. Was supposed to be playing Golf tomorrow :P
<MooDoo> http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/weather < me
<jacobw> i can see it being exactly the same as yesterday, everybody struggles in the work and turns back round within a couple of hours causing gridlock on the roads
<jacobw> in to work even
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bit like "spam, spam, spam"...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just "snow, snow, snow"
<jacobw> we have snow every year, and each year we're not prepared and panic about it
 * jacobw grumbles
<TheOpenSourcerer> jacobw: We didn't used to have snow every year... Three yrs ago was the first for "ages".
<TheOpenSourcerer> I remember saying to my kids "make the most of this" it doesn't happen every year :-P
<jacobw> http://www.snowchains.co.uk/main/weisssock.htm
<jacobw> i saw a volvo with these on yesterday, smart :)
<bigcalm> Cool
<diplo> Our MD sent out an email yesterday saying unless it's 6' deep he expects everyone to make it
<diplo> Bit of a c*ck tbh
<jacobw> i'm driving out to a customer 6 miles away, it took me 3 hours to drive back yesterday, i really don't want to repeat that again today :(
<diplo> :/
<screen-x> morning :)
<screen-x> <--- LaserJet Cleaning Technician
<AlanBell> diplo: http://newsthump.com/2010/12/01/im-so-important-i-simply-had-to-make-this-journey-insist-stranded-mid-level-executive-pricks/
<MooDoo> diplo, what a tosser
<screen-x> AlanBell: great descriptive url
<diplo> heh I Liked that
<MooDoo> diplo, what does your company do?
<maco> AlanBell: nice
<diplo> Software company in Nottingham
<diplo> 90% of staff could work from home
<diplo> And local ones could do support calls
<diplo> I can't see the issue myself
<popey> we're all working from home too :)
<bigcalm> Blah at working from home
<popey> heh
<daubers> Morning
 * popey hugs vpn, ssh and vnc
<jacobw> smug home workers :p
<popey> almost can't make out the water feature anymore on the webcam
<popey> too much white
<daubers> Bah, can't work from home today, got a couple of servers that need to be shipped abroad
<dutchie> finally snowing properly here
<dutchie> \o/
<bigcalm> jacobw: I work from home every day. Nothing smug about it
<MooDoo> bigcalm, i wish i could :D   how long have you worked from home?
<jacobw> bigcalm, i fully agree with working from home
<bigcalm> MooDoo: 16 months
<jacobw> everbody who can work from home, should do in this day and age
<bigcalm> I miss the social interaction
 * daubers ponders some hot choccy instead of his normal morning cuppa
 * bigcalm watches the snow falling and grrs
<MooDoo> bigcalm, that's pretty much the reason we don't home work here
 * daubers ponders setting up a company jabber server
<jacobw> irc + mumble
<daubers> jacobw: jabber would be compatible with iChat on the macs though
<popey> daubers: ichat does jabber?
<popey> so it does
<nperry> Damm shouldn't of tried to get into work
<nperry> Its cold her
<nperry> e
<kazade> popey, I think I managed to get the netbook back to 10.04 stylee
<kazade> the only issue is the icons on the "2D" remix are way too big
<popey> :(
<kazade> my gf used unity for 2 minutes before she hit a website that wouldn't fit horizontally
<kazade> but would if that side bar had autohide
<AlanBell> yay for a broken internet thanks to 960.gs
<popey> uhhh
<krimzon2> why is it that at 3am cron says it can't find the file, but then when i edit crontab to run this morning it reports the output from the script running?
<krimzon2> *can't find the script file
<Ng> PATH issues?
<krimzon2> both times it was cron running, and i've set ROOT=/ in crontab
<krimzon2> i'll read up a bit more on that stuff though
 * diplo is getting festive, Xmas tunes on youtube
<bigcalm> I wonder if there are any festive drum & bass tunes out there
<MartijnVdS> does clownstep count?
<bigcalm> Clownstep? Oh my
<bigcalm> Linky
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: just youtube search for it :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPXPwr06eAA
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I'm lazt
<bigcalm> lazy
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Doesn't do anything for me
<TheOpenSourcerer> krimzon2: cron can be a bit touchy about paths. Does the crontab entry have the full path to the script?
<krimzon2> yeah
<screen-x> krimzon2: is there something that runs at 02:00 that messes it up, and something else that runs at 04:00 that fixes it?
<krimzon2> hmm... there's only two non-default scripts in crontab, one svn updates repositories and one runs the full backup of everything
<krimzon2> the only difference is the backup drive being mounted in /media/
<krimzon2> i unplugged it this morning expecting it to have run the backup
<krimzon2> now i'm in work and can't plug it back in
<daubers> popey: iChat does xmpp
<screen-x> it would be most useful to be able to switch off usb sockets individually, then you can turn them back in remotely.
<krimzon2> it would if i could also remotely power on the drive
<daubers> screen-x: firewall rules for USB :)
<krimzon2> i suppose that's doable with a serial interface
<SuperBoy> ok, is anyone's empathy broken this morning?
<daubers> screen-x: Can't you just use some form of udev rule?
<SuperBoy> I can't send any messages
<screen-x> daubers: yeah, to prevent whatever is plugged in from being used, but that isn't the same as switching off the port.
<SuperBoy> oh wait, it looks like it's just msn
<screen-x> daubers: so that bus powered stuff is powered down
<krimzon2> SuperBoy: i've had certificate problems with MSN in pidgin the past week or so
<daubers> Hmmm... shame IPMI doesn't let you do that really
 * bigcalm doesn't care any more
<bigcalm> Does that mean my empathy is broken?
<SuperBoy> krimzon2: I don't think it's certificates. I just can't start a chat with anyone on msn
<krimzon2> msn is broken
<SuperBoy> very
<screen-x> SuperBoy: I'm surprised there is anyone left to talk to on msn..
<SuperBoy> there are a few, but I think most of the people I speak to are on google these days
<SuperBoy> or on irc
<SuperBoy> or facebook
<daubers> screen-x: At least MSN conversations can be compressed easily, I mean 90% of the traffic must just be people saying "OMG WTF LOLZ"
<screen-x> (g)
<screen-x> any suggestions for last.fm artists/tags to listen to this morning?
<SuperBoy> what are you in to?
<bigcalm> Drum & bass
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: Akufen (artist)
<SuperBoy> I would certainly suggest some trans-siberian orchestra
<bigcalm> I'm listening to whatever http://www.di.fm/ has to offer
<screen-x> Thanks :)
<popey> wow, the new flash 10.2 is a bit good
<popey> full screen anyway
<bigcalm> And Drupal wizards in here?
<DaisyTheCow> I hope I'm not off-topic here but I've had a lot of problems with Cron in the past.  I now use Fcron.  I think it's superb.
<screen-x> DaisyTheCow: seems pretty on topic to me...
<screen-x> How do I redirect connect stderr to a pipe? blah >outfile 2>|less doesn't work
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: let me tell you a storry :)
<MartijnVdS> story*
 * screen-x sits and listens intently
 * krimzon2 googles fcron
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: man bash, /^REDIRECTION
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: it has a list of examples
<MartijnVdS> http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/io-redirection.html also has some nice bits
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: Just read the section in the bash man page, and couldn't see anything about creating pipelines from other outputs (ie not stdout)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: you have to do it in a special roundabout way :)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: look for "Redirecting only stderr to a pipe" on the tldp.org link
<MartijnVdS> it has a fully-commented working example
<screen-x> I see...
<screen-x> I think my made up syntax is better :p
<screen-x> Thans MartijnVdS
<czajkowski> made it to work
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yay! czajkowski - was following your journey on twitter.
<gord> ... so evince has two options for rotation of pages. "rotate left" and "rotate clockwise"
<MichealH> AlanBell: ping
<MartijnVdS> gord: nice :)
<AlanBell> o/
<MichealH> AlanBell: /msg?
<AlanBell> sure
<AlanBell> no school today MichealH?
<MichealH> Were colosed today
<MichealH> Its hily likley I will be off tommorow
<MichealH> Thats good, I need to catch up on some things
<Ng> gord: in the source? or is that some kind of broken, partial en_GB translation? :o
<gord> Ng, i would assume its a translation thing
<gord> this *is* in natty though
 * Ng hands gord all the bugs
<gord> i can only assume someone was changing rotate anti-clockwise/clockwise to left/right and somehow died before doing them both
<Ng> haha
<Ng> when translating in launchpad it sometimes suggests similar translations from other projects - I'm wondering if it remembers that linkage and someone half-linked the rotations, and the other project changed the wording, so LP updated it in evince's translation, but because only half of it was linked...
<kazade> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/evince/+pots/evince/en_GB/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=rotate
<kazade> So "Rotate Anticlockwise" ? or "Rotate Right" ?
<kazade> (e.g. swap the Left -> Anticlockwise, or Clockwise -> Right)
<Ng> I'd be tempted to say left/right is better than jargon/antijargon
<Darael> clockwise is not jargon.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: it makes you think though
<MartijnVdS> can't have that
<krimzon2> left/right depends on whether your head is above or below the image on the monitor
<MartijnVdS> also, what about left-to-right languages
<MartijnVdS> do clocks turn the same way there?
<Ng> MartijnVdS: this is specifically an en_GB translation
<Ng> krimzon2: what? :)
<Darael> Yes, they do, I believe.
<MartijnVdS> Ng: what about the en_GB muslims and jews?! 8-)
<gord> actually no, if your above the monitor and you say to rotate right, it still does the same thing, it all makes sense
<MartijnVdS> "Rotate port", "Rotate starboard"
<gord> make it left/right, there is no reason to use clockwise/anticlockwise
<krimzon2> top-left-to-top-right, top-right-to-rop-left
<MartijnVdS> gord: port/starboard is nice though
<Ng> MartijnVdS: I'm not really sure what religion has to do with english. If multi-lingual people in this country are reading all their english RTL they're going to be pretty confused
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: rivermead is rather pretty
<TheOpenSourcerer> "righty tighty" - "lefty loosey"
<czajkowski> shame I've to leave by 1 to get to london for 3 today
<MartijnVdS> Ng: good point, but they might be more likely to mix languages :)
<Ng> MartijnVdS: and ubuntu is perfect for them because it's so trivial to switch it between translations/orientations!
<Darael> I'm in favour of clockwise/anticlockwise - don't see that it makes people have to think.  And right/left makes an assumption that people think of the direction the top is moving... mostly that might be reasonable, but why make that assumption when there are entirely unambiguous words available that everyone still knows?
<MartijnVdS> but who uses analog clocks these days?!
<SuperBoy> I do
<SuperBoy> I'm wearing a wrist watch right now
<SuperBoy> it's far more convinent that pulling my phone out when I want to know the time
<SuperBoy> which also means I don't advertise to pickpockets where my phone is
<MartijnVdS> They have digital wrist watches now
<popey> only just now
<SuperBoy> also, I get complimented on having a watch. I pull up my sleve and the girls swoon
<SuperBoy> "Nice watch" they say
<SuperBoy> "Thanks," I reply
<SuperBoy> then we make out
<MartijnVdS> SuperBoy: I don't need a watch for that.. I just wink :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice: Francis Maude: "days of mega IT contracts over.. need to rethink.. smaller, off-the-shelf & #opensourceÂ where possible"http://is.gd/i5t1F
<AlanBell> as Douglas Adams said, the human race is so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea
<Darael> Well quoted, that man.
<SuperBoy> I think analgue watches are the peak of human engineering. The design of the clockwork internals has barely changed in centuries
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mrs TheOpenSourcerer just taken the kids off for some serious sledging.. She said "if you earn some money you can go to the pub later".
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone want me to sing to them for a fiver ;-D
<Ng> SuperBoy: that makes no sense :)
<gord> i think cups are the peak of human engineering, the design of cups has barely changed in centuries
<gord> also, they hold coffee
<screen-x> But wasn't cups written by apple? Can't be that old..
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ng: It made perfect sense to me. My Rolex worked wonders :-D
<shauno> ooh. bbc-worldwide are trying to launch iplayer on a paid subscription model.  good news for anyone who's -exuk
<gord> you can download bbc-america stuff on the american playstation network these days, nice to see the bbc trying to make their own money
<MartijnVdS> shauno: \o/ freesat being watchable in .nl ;)
<shauno> I've not found a landlord here that's happy with the idea of stapling a dish to the wall :(
<daubers> shauno: Screws or bolts are probably preferable
<popey> screen-x: no
<gord> because i have scrollback on my irc client, notify osd tells me what people said a week ago for at least five minutes every time i log in :(
<popey> screen-x: cups was bought by apple, not written by
<popey> handy they use it though, means we can often rip drivers from macs for linux ;)
<screen-x> "CUPS is the standards-based, open source printing system developed by Apple Inc. for Mac OSÂ® X and other UNIXÂ®-like operating systems."
<screen-x> liars
<Ng> gord: happy 3rd december
<Ng> gord: happy 4th december
<Ng> ;)
<gord> Ng, too much activity in here :P
<Ng> even a stale notification is right once a year
<daubers> screen-x: Apple often say then developed Objective-C too
<shauno> it's not a lie, it just omits some history.  it's currently developed by apple
<Ng> screen-x: you can develop something without creating it
<screen-x> "currently developed by", would be more accurate then..
<shauno> they also 'bought' the guy that wrote it pre-apple, which probably makes it a bit murky
 * diplo reminds self to make sure all commits are done on one OS before changing to the other
<diplo> :/
<Ng> screen-x: there's more to life than accuracy :)
<screen-x> OK.. Maybe I was a bit quick to pronounce them liars.
<shauno> bah, may as well late the hate continue.  looks like they're launching iplayer-worldwide on ipad, then rolling out to the rest of us later
<Ng> nice to see the bbc pushing ahead with monetisation via attractive new platforms
<shauno> it's a step in the right direction.  but means I'll be sticking to my vpn for a while longer.  unless there's a 42" ipad I haven't noticed yet
<Ng> it makes sense as a starting point - predicable hardware platform, rich users, built-in payment systems and little user access to procured content so DRM is less of a requirement ;)
<czajkowski> Ng: ello :)
<Ng> howdy
<czajkowski> Ng: I hear you're going doing some scripting magic soon :)
<Ng> czajkowski: indeed
<czajkowski> this makes me rather happy :D
<nperry> god dam snow and big companies...
<nperry> Wish they would understand, a citeron saxo is not getting out of our village
<nperry> I struggled in my freelander
<nperry> </rant>
<TheOpenSourcerer> Everything is covered in #FFFFFF
<screen-x> heh
<screen-x> TheOpenSourcerer: turn down the brightness, and increase the contrast
<finelytuned> hi all
<bigcalm> Grrrrrrr
<finelytuned> so i gave Vendetta a go yesterday, it's pretty good
<finelytuned> it's like a more up to date version of freelancer
<nperry> was going to try it today, but I wasn't snowed in :(
<finelytuned> :(
<nperry> Is it 8 hours game time free?
<finelytuned> so they say
<finelytuned> ive only done 3.5 hours ish so far
<finelytuned> i havent had the joy of being snowed in yet as i had a week off
<finelytuned> i really enjoyed EvE and played for 2 years i just cant justify the Â£14 per month anymore
<finelytuned> so vendetta came along at the right time :)
<gord> i thought eve online was one of those crazy games that has an economy where if your good enough at the game, you can actually get your in-game loot to pay for your subscription
<ali1234> that's true
<ali1234> it's not even hard
<ali1234> but if you want to pvp you basically have to sink a load of cash into the game to afford motherships etc
<ali1234> (and that's where the free game time for everyone else comes from)
<gord> honestly, its all too crazy for me
<finelytuned> someting like that ;0
<Ng> I've heard it described as "spreadsheets in space" which seemed quite amusing
<ali1234> that is also true
<finelytuned> there was a guy from Australia who managed to get enough in game cash to convert to real money and pay his deposit on a house
<screen-x> ali1234: pvp?
<bigcalm> player vs player?
<ali1234> player vs player
<MartijnVdS> payer vs payer
<ali1234> yes, that is apt
<finelytuned> lol
<screen-x> heh
<gord> honestly, to me, seems like transport tycoon in space with lasers
<gord> and you spend your real money on trade routes
<gord> which is terrifying
<ali1234> the only people who put in real money are the people who exclusively pvp
<popey> Koreans?
<Ng> gord: mmm, lasert
<finelytuned> rich people you mean
<Ng> -t+s
<finelytuned> chinese farmers are rife
<Ng> I hear you can buy farming services for a lot of the MMO games
<finelytuned> very true
<czajkowski> best way from waterloo to get to canoincal office is ........... ?
<MartijnVdS> walk?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Walk
<popey> train to vauxhall
<screen-x> czajkowski: follow the protesting students
<popey> Students are revolting!
<czajkowski> screen-x: no they were there monday!
<MartijnVdS> popey: I know right
<gord> i just get off the underground at oxford road and walk
<TheOpenSourcerer> Walk passed the eye, over Westminster Bridge, turn left. About 15-20m
<czajkowski> the eye is the ugly eye sore right ?
<popey> wut!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bloody foreigners
<gord> czajkowski, head towards big ben :) then follow the road along the river
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: the eye: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/4935598654/
<czajkowski> yes eye sore
<czajkowski> ok
<gord> it really is
<czajkowski> lets hope the trains are working better than they were this morning
<jpds> czajkowski: best way> 507 bus to Millbank.
<Ng> czajkowski: tfl suggest the quickest route is the 507 bus from stop W at waterloo, crosses the river at horseferry road which is very close to millbank tower
<jpds> Ask a local.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCM6XzDoLXY
<gord> if the underground was broken i would just cry in the middle of london and never get anywhere
<Ng> (as the bus crosses the river, look left and you'll see the tower, then ring the bell and get off at the first stop after the river :)
 * Ng ^5 jpds 
<TheOpenSourcerer> Get to about 1:30 in the video
<czajkowski> *grin*
<czajkowski> thanks folks
 * jpds returns Ng's âµ.
<czajkowski> if anyone is in ther today shall wave hi @ 3
<czajkowski> popey: soooo CUTE
<bigcalm> LOL
<popey> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah popey - She's defo got your eyes ;-)
<popey> :)
<popey> he has my mouth
<czajkowski> the taxis are closed here
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Just saw this on Twitter:
<TheOpenSourcerer> The entire board at Waterloo is set to delay in case your wondering and are heading that way to get a train out
<TheOpenSourcerer> Got on a SWT service from Surbiton at 10:15 ... it's now 12:15 and I am still sitting on it outside Waterloo
<czajkowski> dear BCS kindly reply to mail asking oif event is going on! *grrrr*
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: oh feck
 * popey has sorted the kids out
<popey> http://twitpic.com/3c65e2
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> awww
<bigcalm> popey: ipad?
<bigcalm> I'm pondering some form of tablet for the sittingroom
<popey> ponder no more!
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> I don't really want an iSheep though
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, that guys a nutter
<bigcalm> Possibly something with Android on it
<popey> I would have got an android tablet if I thought there was one that was a viable option
<TheOpenSourcerer> My son has pre-ordered the new Archos 43 instead of an iPod Touch. he understands freedom is more important than bling.
<directhex> does he exercise that freedom?
<TheOpenSourcerer> In the voice of the Churchill Dog: "Ohhh YES!" :-D
<popey> I didnt factor 'bling' into my purchase.
<popey> (whatever that is)
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's what Essex people like.
<popey> I thought that was Escort XR3i
 * TheOpenSourcerer hides from selinixium or whatever his handle is.
 * popey tickles gmb
 * gmb strokes popey's face
<TheOpenSourcerer> eewwwww.
<popey> :)
<popey> interesting that UDS is going to be in the same hotel in florida next year
<gmb> Oh god, really?
 * gmb doesn't pay much attention to UDS
<gmb> Mind you, our Launchpad and Platform sprints are in the same hotel in Dallas that UDS-L was in.
<MartijnVdS> popey: was it a good one?
<popey> dunno, i wasnt there
<popey> yeah, of course there's one in europe before it goes back to the USA
<Seeker`> woo fir city link
<Seeker`> *for
<Seeker`> pqckage picked up from amazon in milton keynes (according to amazon) for delivery to hemel hempstead
<Seeker`> apparently, the pqckqge is now in grimbergen
<popey> is that good?
<MartijnVdS> Grimbergen is in Belgium
<Seeker`> whqt MartijnVdS said
<MartijnVdS> I imagine there's a shorter route from Milton Keynes to Hemel Hempstead
<Pendulum> popey: it was a nice hotel :)
<czajkowski> Todays photos  http://pix.ie/czajkowski/album/395491/goto/2061243
<popey> http://pix.ie/czajkowski/2061247/in/album/395491 I KNOW THAT ROAD!
<popey> oh, it's where you live.. nvm
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.muktware.com/n/02/2010/547
<popey> uhm
<popey> that article is wildly inaccurate
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: i would hope so
 * czajkowski pats popey on the noggin
<czajkowski> special lad
<popey> dinda was offering to help with the _developer_ manual, not the Ubuntu Manual
<Pendulum> popey: that makes more sense
<Pendulum> since the developer manual _is_ heavily a Canonical thing
<Pendulum> also the part where if it'd been the Ubuntu Manual, you'd have expected the story to break on OMG! ;-)
<popey> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-developer-manual/msg00047.html
<popey> note the list
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> popey: are you going to comment?
<popey> yeah
<popey> once their dumb disqus thing works
<czajkowski> disqus ??
<popey> comment system
<gmb> Someone proposed that we use disqus for Launchpad at one point (for blueprints,  I think it was). Someone slapped them down fairly quickly, as I recall.
<MartijnVdS> Thermonuclear slapdown
<czajkowski> popey: ah ok
<czajkowski> thanks
<KrisWillis> Ooo the new Flash beta sounds exciting! Just need to wait patiently for the 64-bit version
<dwatkins1> 10.2, KrisWillis?
<KrisWillis> dwatkins: Yeah
<screen-x> There's a google analytics type thing, but it can be hosted locally, name begins with a p, but I've forgotten it..
<screen-x> got it... piwik
<diplo> That was a good read TheOpenSourcerer on Asterisk
<MooDoo> hello all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - Just been followed by a popey pub. http://twitter.com/#!/hamandblackbird
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is that the one near the station>
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\>\?
 * MartijnVdS hands TheOpenSourcerer the "/" key
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Kewl: http://mrdoob.com/projects/chromeexperiments/ball_pool/
<TheOpenSourcerer> From here: http://html5advent.com/ Clever Idea.
<shauno> woah.  "shake your browser" actually works
<awilkins> To do what? Correct the slight rendering errors I've noticed in chrome?
<ali1234> it doesn't work with compiz
<ali1234> i'm using firefox as well
<shauno> this is where I have to admit I use osx on my laptop, isn't it
<Oli```> Are there any top-level that have two parts to them other than .co.xx ?
<Oli```> *top-level domains
<awilkins> Only your subconscious guilt compels you to do that
<shauno> Oli```: quite a few, yes
<shauno> I think paraguay was the one I noticed most recently
<Darael> ali1234: It /sort of/ works with compiz.  The effects don't happen until you let the browser go, but it does have an effect on the balls.
<Oli```> shauno: oh god there are all the .com.xx (etc) ones
<Darael> There's a few UK ones, too... org.uk springs to mind.
<Oli```> indeed
<Darael> Actually, there's /only/ two-part ones in .uk, IIRC.
<Oli```> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/netwerk/dns/src/effective_tld_names.dat?raw=1 appears to list all the TLD combos
<Oli```> correios-e-telecomunicaÃ§Ãµes.museum is a top level domain >_<
<popey> yes TheOpenSourcerer
<Darael> .{com,edu,gov,org,ac,mil,net,sch}.xx all seem reasonably common.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - not my ideal hostelry.
<shauno> wow.  that whole .museum space looks like a mess
<Oli```> Yeah
<kazade> anyone here own or has owned a Dreamcast?
<kazade> dug mine out of the attic yesterday - god it's awesome
<popey> :)
<popey> i never even played one
<kazade> seriously popey, totally missing out ;)
<gord> ugh the bank robot has wait music now and its christmas brass band :(
<kazade> it has proper arcade style games, like Hydro Thunder and Crazy Taxi
<kazade> just bought 2 controllers from ebay, still boxed :D
<kazade> my gf is gonna disown me if I take up much more of the living room with retro consoles :/
<gord> dump girlfriend, acquire more mega drives
<kazade> heh :)
<kazade> I need to get a Master system..
<kazade> and a Sega Saturn, then I will have restored my childhood collection ;)
<Azelphur> Anyone know an app for android that can stream your camera to the web?
<Azelphur> like ustream but I need to be able to background it
<ali1234> make one
<Azelphur> within the next 10 minutes :P
<ali1234> when you say "stream to web" what do you mean?
<Craig_Dem> Better get coding fast if you only have 10 minutes.
<Azelphur> ali1234: ustream streams my webcam up to the ustream server and exposes a web page with flash video
<Azelphur> so it streams my webcam live to a webpage I can link people to
<ali1234> ustream is open protocol?
<Azelphur> no idea
<popey> vlc?
<Azelphur> popey: on android?
<ali1234> root it, install debian
<ali1234> then get vlc
<ali1234> it would have to be backgrounded then, unless you install vnc and all that stuff
<gord> whats the main story on bbc news today? "Excitement mounts over World Cup votes".. thats not news.
<bigcalm> Couldn't care less
<directhex> gord: the definition of news has changed.
<gord> changed isn't quite the word... disintegrated
<screen-x> news = stuff that generates page views?
<jacobw> uh huh
<directhex> the news is the news, now
<directhex> screen-x: right
<directhex> the story is no longer "event x", it's the peoples' reaction to event x, and the news coverage of event x
<directhex> news is not facts
<screen-x> meta news
<directhex> news is stories
<directhex> stories about puppies, and photos of snowmen
<mgdm> the main story at my work isn't about that, fortunately
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11897825
<bigcalm> Hey mgdm
<mgdm> Hi bigcalm
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpVTUdfcEMg
<DaisyTheCow> falcon
<jacobw> peregrine
<nperry> chicken
<DaisyTheCow> I win :o)
<DaisyTheCow> sorry typed original message in wrong window
<jpds> Hmm, cow falcons.
<AlanBell> falconry with chickens
<AlanBell> chickens don't like snow
<nperry> Nor does nperry
<DaisyTheCow> Snow is a waste of time unless you get enough of it to be off work
<nperry> I'm going to have a snow/ice day tomorrow.
<nperry> I struggled to get out my village this morning, with it freezing tonight I've got no hope in hell.
<DaisyTheCow> I wish I could.  There's just enough here to be a pain but not enough to get a day off!
<Darael> Cue "there snow ice" pun.
<directhex> hm. was it ali1234 who did an image for me?
<TheOpenSourcerer> There is enough here for both of us DaisyTheCow
<jpds> DaisyTheCow: 'off work because of snow' ?
<screen-x> mmm ubuntu irc-members, I guess you need more of a contribution than "makes sarcastic comments in #ubuntu-uk"
<DaisyTheCow> TheOpenSourcerer: I need mine up here :o(
<jpds> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11886404
<jpds> There is the concept of working remotely from home.
<bigcalm> jpds: my boss's tweet is quoted in that page
<jpds> bigcalm: OK, keep calm.
 * bigcalm panics
<bigcalm> There's no escape
<jpds> ;-)
<screen-x> In chrome, I'm only seeing one letter of each headline on that bbc news page.
<gord> chrome or chromium?
<Phineas> i changed my username in ubuntu but when i do something in terminal or lok at the user name in the top-left hand corner it still says my old username, how can i solve this?
<Azelphur> I don't think you can change your username
<Azelphur> you can only create a new one
<gord> Phineas, how did you change your username?
<Phineas> Azelphur,  yes you can when you edit the user account and type in a new name
<kazade> usermod can change your login name..
<kazade>        -l, --login NEW_LOGIN
<kazade>            The name of the user will be changed from LOGIN to NEW_LOGIN. Nothing else is changed. In particular, the users home directory name should probably be changed
<kazade>            manually to reflect the new login name.
<screen-x> gord: chrome
<Azelphur> I see :p
<Phineas> gord,  system > administration > users> edit> then i changed the name from there
<kazade> usermod -l login-name old-name
<kazade> although I dunno what will break :)
<Phineas> kazade,  break?
<kazade> well, your home folder uses your login name...
<kazade> Phineas, http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-change-rename-user-name-id/
<Phineas> kazade,  ahh
<nperry> Phineas: Why would you want/need to change your username? Unless you used your porn name.
<Phineas> nperry,  didn't like my old user name, didn't have enought pazaz to it
<screen-x> bit waffly?
<nperry> I always sufer with not enough pazaz.
<Phineas> my new user name doesn't exsist
<Phineas> fishy that is
<bigcalm> Phineas: open a terminal and enter: ls /home
<Phineas> bigcalm,  old user name appears
<Phineas> bigcalm,  this is fishy
<bigcalm> That's your new user name with more pizaz?
<Phineas> bigcalm,  no my new user name is not fishy its Phineas
<livingdaylight> good morning
<Phineas> bigcalm,  but everything thats not the login screen or user sats still says my old user name
<popey> Phineas: stuff will break if you rename your user
<ali1234> directhex: yeah it was me
<Phineas> popey,  like what?
<popey> Phineas: like software that has /home/waffle/foo/bar/baz in it
<directhex> ali1234: i've updated things slightly, you might like
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> but shouldn't it say "developers!"
<ali1234> hmm i didn't know pitivi was a collabora software
<ali1234> i suppose that explains why it uses gstreamer
<Phineas> the internet is a lie
<nigelb> just like the cake
<dutchie> popey: said stuff could be said to be broken anyway...
<kazade> gah, I hate debating DRM with someone who thinks it's a great idea...
<kazade> because they always come up with the priceless "If you don't like it, don't buy it"
<kazade> which is fine, if the whole PC gaming world didn't think DRM was a great idea :/
<nperry> +1
<kazade> (un)fortunately, OMGubuntu has a limit to nested comments
<Darael> kazade: My response tends to be "I don't.  That doesn't make it a good thing".
<nperry> kazade: funny you should say that kazade, just discussing omgubuntu's ubuntu fan boy/girl based community.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Send us to the World Cup - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2010/12/02/send-us-to-the-world-cup
<kazade> nperry, I'm mentioning it because I'm having a debate with a moron, erm, I mean person on OMG!
<nperry> How can bug 683775 be a regression, when its only been reported to happen from fresh install
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 683775 in linux (Ubuntu) "Natty Alpha 1, i915 has blank screen after boot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683775
<dutchie> because it's a bug that wasn't present in an old release
<nperry> dutchie: Answers the questions.. ty :)
<nperry> My perception was that regression would only be when you update from old>new
<andylockran> howdy all
<andylockran> y'all good?
<nperry> Yo, I'm good, youself?
<X3N> http://www.linux.fm/
<livingdaylight> someone know whether there is a linux app that allows several people to view a film for e.g and chat at the same time? in
<X3N> livingdaylight: irc and VLC ?
<livingdaylight> http://v-radio.org/
<livingdaylight> X3N, how would that work?
<livingdaylight> how would people sign in to VLC?
<X3N> you use irc for chatting and VLC for video distribution
<livingdaylight> I'm talking about an application or method for doing that under one roof
<livingdaylight> a live-stream where people log on using tweeter account for e.g and chat and comment on what's being viewed in real time
<X3N> with a pony right? ;)
<livingdaylight> ok, so app doesn't exist in Linux... i was just asking
<X3N> we'll the apps exist, you just have to them together
<livingdaylight> http://mashable.com/2010/12/01/social-media-addiction-psa/ enjoy
<X3N> *well
<AlanBell> sounds more like a web application
<AlanBell> like the jonocast thing
<livingdaylight> jonocast thing?
<livingdaylight> the guy from V-radio seems to think he has to use windows; it would be more in keeping if there was an opensource /FSF approach
<dutchie> ustream.tv is a non-foss way that works on linux
<AlanBell> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/at-home-with-jono-bacon
<dutchie> although i don't know if you can do video broadcasts without pointing a webcam at a tv screen
<AlanBell> messing with gstreamer pipelines you probably can
<dutchie> sounds fun
<shauno> that v-radio site is pretty awful :/
<livingdaylight> shauno, in what way?
<shauno> "for the purpose of spreading awareness of the Venus Project"
<shauno> and then goes on to make no further mention of what this is, at all, anywhere on the site
<livingdaylight> shauno, yes, it does... check 'links'
<livingdaylight> anyway, you can argue about the contents; i'm asking about the technological side
<shauno> just thought it was interesting :)
<livingdaylight> shauno, it actually goes on to say: "The work of industrial designer and social engineer Jacque Fresco."
<livingdaylight> given it is about the tv docus he's promoting I think it is a fair intro, enough to go on and reseach by using google for e.g. if not first checking the 'links' tab
<shauno> the only link that seemed relevant there doesn't answer for me
<X3N> not as good as http://www.linux.fm/
<shauno> but yes, what you're asking for would be a mash of otherwise separate components.  just as sites like justin.tv do it.  a stream and chat on one page, rather than a pre-existing app that's mashed them for you already
<livingdaylight> does such an app for windows exist? that mashes these various components under one roof?
<livingdaylight> shauno, how would a link to said Venus Project not feel relevant?
<shauno> that's the one that didn't work for me  (times out)
<livingdaylight> i see
<livingdaylight> yes, seems temporarily down
<shauno> I'm not sure what'd do it on windows either.  I'd assume livemeeting, but I've never tried that with a stream
<livingdaylight> I'll ask him what he uses
<AlanBell> what is tumblr?
<MonsterKiller> dont supose anyone would know if you can clear prt cache and if so, how i could do it? :P
<dutchie> AlanBell: hosted blogging thingy
<AlanBell> oh ok. Just says limit exceeded for me and there was an article about it on planet ubuntu
<cronus>  /nick ado_papas
<daubers> ping AlanBell
<AlanBell> o/
<sam_010203> got a problem with flash in youtube.  its loading a black screen but not downloading.  there are no controls either.  anyone know why this is happening?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Ubuntu LoCo Team's Website Moved to New Server - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/ubuntu-loco-teams-website-moved-new-server
<Azelphur> I upgraded the graphics card in my PC from an nvidia 6600 to an nvidia 9500, X kept crashing so I uninstalled the proprietary drivers to reinstall them. Now X won't start. Here's Xorg.0.log http://pastebin.com/0DLjpqjf
<Azelphur> I tried reinstalling nvidia-glx-185 but it still wouldn't start, any ideas?
 * Azelphur pokes the smart people
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1497063
<Azelphur> yea, my Xorg.conf was trying to load nv and looking at the list nv doesn't support 9500GT so that's part one explained
<Azelphur> I installed nvidia-glx-185 and set driver to "nvidia", it now says Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0)
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: any idea why it'd say there's no such module even though I have nvidia-glx-185 installed?
<ali1234> because dkms failed to run properly, or because you still have the nouveau module loaded
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: no clue. how about http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/ee-failed-to-load-module-nvidia-module-does-not-exist-0-a-572701/
<Azelphur> ali1234: how do I check?
<UbuntuBhoy> any chance of help to a small booting issue?
<Azelphur> ali1234: also with nouveau loaded do you mean in xorg.conf?
<UbuntuBhoy> just repartitioned second drive, and upgraded vista to win7
<UbuntuBhoy> now ubuntu hangs on boot
<UbuntuBhoy> looking for the vista partition
<UbuntuBhoy> how can I skip by this
<nperry> UbuntuBhoy: you might need to go into grub command line and update-grub
<nperry> Oh hang on, does it go past grub?
<UbuntuBhoy> any link to a how-to?
<UbuntuBhoy> yeah, its a mountall problem
<UbuntuBhoy> 'mountall: Filesystem could not be mounted /media/Vista'
<UbuntuBhoy> the drive was set to automount
<MonsterKiller> 'Vista' <--- theres the problem
<UbuntuBhoy> thats why the upgrade
<dogmatic69> eh... you got a virus :P
<UbuntuBhoy> not used it for about 2 years
<UbuntuBhoy> so any ideas how I can skip the mountall failure
<nperry> Boot into recovery mode, drop to shell and disable?
<UbuntuBhoy> its the same on recovery
<UbuntuBhoy> doesn't hit the menu
<nperry> Live cd and chroot in?
<UbuntuBhoy> probably, but wouldnt know what to do when I got in
<nperry> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=157250
<UbuntuBhoy> edit fstab?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] A walk in the snow - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2010/12/02/a-walk-in-the-snow/
<UbuntuBhoy> nperry: I know how to get in, but what do I change to stop the error
<Azelphur> ali1234 / dogmatic69 I fixed it, ssh -X and jockey-gtk to the rescue
<dogmatic69> nice
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey - this will stick the wind up IBM a tad... http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/120110-microsoft-quietly-invests-in-ibm.html
<ikonia> I need someone to bounce an issue off, I'm getting frustrated with a normally simple function of mdadm
<directhex> toss it out the window, hit the gym
<ikonia> sold
<ikonia> I'm off to do some bench work, good call
<ikonia> oh no, wait, I want my data
<directhex> always looking out for your best interests, matt!
<ikonia> back at you
<ikonia> however as you have responded, you will have to be my sounding board
<ikonia> sorry
<ikonia> I have a raid 5 software raid array, the data is in tact and all is well, the problem is the mdadm.conf file had the row deleted for that meta device
<ikonia> I want to start the raid 5 array using the existing data, I'd notmally simple mdadm --build $device --level=$ $disk1 $disk2
<ikonia> however mdadm --build --level=5 does not support raid 5 to build an array ?
<ikonia> so my only real option is to use --create to re-create the array, however --create notices the disks are already in an existing but not running array
<ikonia> if I use create it will re-write the superblock, which isn't a problem, but I'm not %100 sure if it will do anything else, which then puts the data on this stripe set at risk
<ikonia> the man page couldn't be less detailed if it tried
<directhex> i have little MD experience, and certainly not with 5
<ikonia> it's fine normally, I can recover a total mess, but I've never had it tell me --level=5 is not supported so I've never really checked if --create only touches the super block, or anything else
<ikonia> if I had confidence it just re-created the super block, I'd just re-create it
<ikonia> ok, array rebuilding, lets come back to it in 1134 minutes to see if the data is still there
<ikonia> thanks directhex you where mega
<directhex> sorry, if i don't know i won't pretend to know!
<ikonia> I'm only kidding
<ikonia> it was actually helpful to type it out and walk it through
<ikonia> I'm pretty certain it's just super block data it writes, so lets try it
<directhex> good luck
<ikonia> it will be fine
<ikonia> now I need to work out how to write data to the appleTV disk device and get some form of Linux on it
<ikonia> that's proving a lot more of a challange than I had hoped for
<KrimZon> argh, this thing with cron not finding the script is driving me crazy
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] Things You Didn't Know About Shaun McCance #1 - http://philbull.livejournal.com/56364.html
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The LoCo Council Optimizes LoCo Teams For Success - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/12/02/the-loco-council-optimizes-loco-teams-for-success/
<DanielRM> Evening all.
<dogmatic69> o/
<DanielRM> dogmatic69: how are you?
<dogmatic69> not to bad thanks
<dogmatic69> and you?
<DanielRM> Not too bad.
<DanielRM> Tired but I always am.
<DanielRM> Anyone fancy recommending some music to me?
<MichealH> The sound of your computer? <3
<dogmatic69> trivium, coal chamber, slip knot, ac/dc, metallica
<DanielRM> MichealH: but it's running silent at the moment. D:
<MichealH> DanielRM, Just overwork it It will soon follow ;)
<MichealH> Mine sounds like its going at 200% CPU
<dogmatic69> pantera, ozzy, smashing pumpkins
<DanielRM> dogmatic69: any of those in the folk metal subgenre? I'm not in the mood for anything much heavier atm.
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> i like noise++;
<DanielRM> I'm thinking mainly Coal Chamber as I've not heard of them; don't know much about Slip Knot either TBH.
<MichealH> I like Noise+
<MichealH> Not ++ :P
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> then dont bother with coal chamber
<DanielRM> Quite like some of Mechanical Poet's stuff.
<dogmatic69> or slip knot
<dogmatic69> how about manic street preachers
<MichealH> I will hold on to rap then ;)
<dogmatic69> old skewl
<dogmatic69> sp is always good
<dogmatic69> pearl jam is nice and relaxing
<dogmatic69> who knew pantera is Brazilian
<DanielRM> Hmm, MSP might be OK for the moment.
<dogmatic69> not pantera
<DanielRM> Not heard of Pearl Jam; what style?
<dogmatic69> very custom tunes, something like nirvana same sort of era
<dogmatic69> wiki says "Alternative rock, grunge"
<DanielRM> Hmm.
<dogmatic69> who knew *Sepultura* was brazilian
<DanielRM> Think I'll go for a bit of quiet hip-hop at the moment.
<DanielRM> Well, hip-hop/electronic.
<dogmatic69> very hard core compared to mardi gras :P
<DanielRM> Hehe.
<Ng> DanielRM: go for some oldskool style hiphop, Ugly Duckling! particularly their album Taste The Secret :D
<dogmatic69> there is always http://www.linux.fm/
<DanielRM> Ng: I'm on Dan le Sac and Scroobius Pip at the moment.
<dogmatic69> this is awesome <3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg-wRQdrSqo
<dogmatic69> static-x
 * Ng wonders if there are any powerline fans in the house, I have more stupid question
<DanielRM> I've got some sort of ska/reggae on.
<DanielRM> It's rubbish. :-/
<DanielRM> That's banned from last.fm
<DanielRM> Ng: once this Frank Turner one's finished I'll give Ugly Duckling a try. :P
<Ng> \o/
<jacobw> airbourne toxic event
<Ng> ipopey definitely wants to tap out the answers to my silly powerline questions! ;)
<jacobw> greetings iPopey
<DanielRM> Evening ipopey
<ipopey> Ng: Hmm?
<jacobw> goodnight all
<Ng> ipopey: just wondering if I can buy 4 of the 200mb ones and have magic happen
<ipopey> Define magic
<DanielRM> The Snowman being real?
<Ng> ipopey: all 4 devices can see each other like they were just on a real lan
<ipopey> That's exactly what happens
<Ng> my brain doesn't really accept that internets can work over power lines, so I struggle to assume that the obvious magic will happen ;)
<MattJ> Ng: it happens
<ipopey> The only optional bit is doing the encryption
<Ng> my folks want an internet tv, sony/samsung want hilarious amounts of money for usb wifi adapters for them, but they all have ethernet ports => powerline is cheaper
<ipopey> But that's a 2 min job
<Ng> ebuyer have a cheapie unbranded 200mb powerline pair of thingies for like 45 quid, which is excellent
<dogmatic69> anyone know of good places to buy hardware?
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: ebuyer, scan
<dogmatic69> without a retail account or anything like that, just direct to the public stuff (with good prices)
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: pretty much everywhere you go you have to sign up for an account
<dogmatic69> oh ok
<dogmatic69> im new to the uk markets
<Azelphur> but it's free to create an account and you don't have to regularly buy so just create an account lol
<dogmatic69> ok
<dogmatic69> that is ok then
<Azelphur> yea
<dwatkins> There is some protection for the buyer, so it's worth doing it that way
<dogmatic69> in south africa you have to prove you will buy more than x per month etc
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: dabs is good too
<dwatkins> If you buy with a credit card there's even more protection
 * Azelphur has spent loads on ebuyer/dabs
 * dwatkins has spent a lot on these sites also, and overclockers uk
<dogmatic69> any one have a proper rack at home?
<dogmatic69> like a blade server etc
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: what I usually do is use google shopping, sort by price, then find the first reputable seller and buy from there
<Azelphur> google shopping is awesome for that
<dogmatic69> ye, good plan
<Nafallo> blade server at home = bad plan :-)
<dogmatic69> really?
<DanielRM> Whenever I hear that term I always think of a server which is physically sharp. I always worry I'd cut myself on one.
<Nafallo> power usage, cooling for it. the noice.
<dogmatic69> just stick it out side, no noise, free cooling :P
<Nafallo> ehrm. you obviously haven't looked at pricing for them yet ;-)
<dogmatic69> 2k
<dogmatic69> pretty crazy
<Nafallo> and the sound is just... yeah, no. unless you live in the forest you'll end up disturbing people.
<ipopey> With how many blades?
<dogmatic69> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/200764
<dogmatic69> ^ i want
<Nafallo> that's not a blade chassi...
<dogmatic69> i know, almost time for a desktop upgrade
<Nafallo> I can believe ONE BLADE would be 2k... but the chassi will be a lot more than that :-P
<dwatkins> I have a silent PC at home that's a server. I chose the fans carefully.
<dwatkins> I wouldn't bother with a blade server, far too much power for home use. I just repurposed a PC.
<Nafallo> depending on what you'd use the server for, development ARM boards would be a better option :-)
<Nafallo> no cooling, hardly no power.
<ipopey> I used to have a compaq proliant server in my garage :)
<Nafallo> ipopey: I used to have a Compaq Prosignia in my flat... what's the point? ;-)
<Nafallo> (I had it off... sawmills shouldn't be in flats)
<dwatkins> I think my next server will either be a mini-itx or a sheevaplug
<dogmatic69> lol
<neptune> hey
<dogmatic69> o/
<czajkowski> just so we're clear and in case you missed it. I HATE SNOW!!!!!
<czajkowski> AOHA
<czajkowski> ALOHA
<dogmatic69> snow FTW!!!!!1!!eleven!!1
<ipopey> :)
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski, you made it home then!
<Azelphur> haha, this wikileaks story is so funny
<Azelphur> it gets worse every day, it's gone from "Your bad and have caused deaths" to "We're shutting your servers down" to "We're going to accuse you of rape" to "The russians are going to assassinate you"
<Azelphur> xD
<czajkowski> AlanBell: what a frigging day
<AlanBell> snow in the UK == forget about public transport
<AlanBell> and roads
<Nafallo> mmmm. kebab.
<AlanBell> and walking
 * Nafallo adds to AlanBells thing ...outside London ;-)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: london is fine
<czajkowski> there is little or no snow there
<czajkowski> it's everywhere else is the issue
<czajkowski> it's stupid
<czajkowski> I waited for 2 hours in Woking for trains that were coming
<czajkowski> and then at the time they were due to arrived, then pulled. poor communication
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> it is mainly a lack of drivers getting to work
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm off up the wooden hill to bedforshire - no snow there :-D
<AlanBell> czajkowski: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11897825
<diplo> evening all
<ipopey> Lo
<jpds> AlanBell: http://i.imgur.com/FqBqK.jpg is more accurate.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] DevDocs/Tools Hackfest day one; Handling lots of screenshots - http://philbull.livejournal.com/56738.html
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-03
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha 1 Released: Time To Test! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/12/03/ubuntu-11-04-alpha-released-time-to-test/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Scott James Remnant] Event matching in Upstart - http://www.netsplit.com/2010/12/03/event-matching-in-upstart/
<screen-x> morning all :)
<screen-x> https://lists.uknof.org.uk/pipermail/uknof/2010-December/000760.html
<screen-x> the ipv4 end is neigh
<screen-x> nigh even
<screen-x> bye lubotu3
<czajkowski> aloha
<screen-x> morning czajkowski :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<screen-x> MOOoo
<MooDoo> :D
<screen-x> \o/ Friday
<MooDoo> FTW!
<DaisyTheCow> Morning all
<MooDoo> DaisyTheCow, good morning
<MooDoo> got into my car this morning to a -10 on the dashboard temp, thought it was a tag cold.
<MooDoo> ooooo irc membership.......
<screen-x> (2010-12-02 16:25:27) screen-x: mmm ubuntu irc-members, I guess you need more of a contribution than "makes sarcastic comments in #ubuntu-uk"
<MooDoo> screen-x, rats ;)
<screen-x> well it counts me out anyway :p
<MooDoo> screen-x, well yeah me too, but it's something to work for......
<MooDoo> coffee and donut anyone......ah bum, that won't help either...
<screen-x> have to be a catalyst..
<MooDoo> screen-x, couldn't we all just snog popey ?
<screen-x> soo, MooDoo, how can I help you to support the ubuntu users of the uk?
 * screen-x is not up for snogging popey or ipopey
<MooDoo> screen-x, well i have this boil :)
<screen-x> in other news... piwik is awesome
<MooDoo> screen-x, do this - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/100UsersProject then support the users in this channel :D
<screen-x> and it has mobile apps to go with it :)
<screen-x> Hmm, I have introduced people to ubuntu, but not many have been up for switching.
<MooDoo> screen-x, yeah same here, i managed to switch one when they were sick of getting viruss all the time
<MooDoo> screen-x, they are amazed that i can fix their machine remotely via ssh :D
<screen-x> :)
<MooDoo> screen-x, i also installed unity the other day to see what it's like and get used to it before natty
<screen-x> I'll have to check my 3d hardware is up to that..
<screen-x> do you happen to know if the intel integrated graphics in the i3/i5 cpus+chipsets will be up to that?
<MooDoo> i'm not sure......
<screen-x> I don't know either, but I need to order some workstations for work, and if unity is going take over, I need to make sure they can run it.
<screen-x> The workstations here currently have nasty s3 graphics chipsets that don't can't run compiz, but that's not a problem in 8.04 as we just use metacity.
<AlanBell> I don't think unity will be any more stressful than compiz for the graphics hardware
<Phineas> damn it i can't find my old mp3 player, just as i found 2 had drives to put in it
<screen-x> AlanBell: good to hear :)
<AlanBell> and it runs on the graphics chipset that goes with the Atom, the i3 will have no trouble at all with it
<Phineas> anyone know where my old mp3 player is i can't find it
<AlanBell> it is down the back of the sofa
<AlanBell> and certainly isn't on IRC
<nperry> morning o/
<ali1234> the gma 950 is about the same as a geforce 6
<ali1234> newer intel graphics are better than that
<ali1234> so they are fine for compiz
<directhex> the gma950 isn't remotely as good as geforce 6
<directhex> maybe 6200
<ali1234> 6200 is geforce 6
<ali1234> not only that but it is more than enough for compiz
<Phineas> AlanBell,  well its not there :(
<Phineas> nperry,  oh there you are perry
<directhex> saying "6200 is geforce 6" is like saying "the aston martin cygnet is an aston martin"
<ali1234> what, you mean totally correct?
<Phineas> i prefer nvidea
<directhex> pretty much any card with NPOT is good enough for compiz, since you're talking about a dozen polygons
<directhex> the SNES would do that many
<ali1234> you need render to texture extension too
<ali1234> and decent fill rate
<Phineas> directhex,  are you saying the SNES can run compiz?
<directhex> Phineas: well, probably not. SuperFX didn't do texturing... but you get my point
<ali1234> is your point that you didn't have coffe yet and just arguing for the sake of it?
<directhex> the only reason older cards don't do compiz isn't the lack of power, it's the lack of some simple gl extensions
<Phineas> are SNK still in business?
<nperry> Phineas: Indeed :)
<directhex> Phineas: they were bought & sold... so yes-ish
<directhex> and SNK platforms don't do 3d, they're just *amazing* at 2d fillrate & scaling
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNK_Playmore#Rebirth
<Phineas> directhex,  so the games for it that say 3D are just not 3D
<directhex> running on MVS? yep.
<nperry> exit
<ali1234> console games have always been full of misinformation when it comes to "3d"
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure donkey kong country was sold as a 3d game
<MooDoo> nperry, stage left?
<directhex> it was one of the first games to use 2d sprites rendered from 3d models, rather than hand-drawn
<directhex> the lies about the atari jaguar were more blatant
<ali1234> then there's killer instinct on n64, which was just 2d sprites over the most simple 3d background ever
<czajkowski> hmm not sure  I can make it to work today, and if I do, there is no guarantee I can get home
<czajkowski> :s
<MooDoo> czajkowski, would they mind you working from home?
<directhex> ali1234: i didn't think the original KI had anything resembling 3d... paralax, sure, but everything used paralax.
<ali1234> the original didn't, then they released the n64 version and they were like "now with 3d graphics!!!"
<ali1234> but it was just some lame backgrounds
<czajkowski> MooDoo: Nope had I my work laptop, I did mail home some things as I had said I'd come in later when the trains warm up
<czajkowski> but yesterday afternoon there were no trains to Woking for 4 hours
<czajkowski> :s
<MooDoo> czajkowski, i wouldn't risk it to be honest.....stay at home with coffee, work and us :)
<czajkowski> heh
<MooDoo> czajkowski, you miss my prods :)  oh yeah prod prod
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
<bigcalm> Good morning early morning zombies :)
<dwatkins> Good morning folks, I hope people aren't too affected by the snow.
<Phineas> the ps2 has good graphics on some games, even the Gamecube has good graphics on one game
<dwatkins> Which game has good graphics on the gamecube, Phineas?
<MooDoo> if you're my friend on facebook, i've just uploaded a photo of my car temp -10 at 7:20 this morning
<dwatkins> MooDoo: it's -14 here in Edinburgh ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Had a lie in this morning. Kids off school again.
<Phineas> dwatkins,  The Urbz and Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
<MooDoo> dwatkins, pah looks like i'm having a hea wave then :D
<Phineas> MooDoo,  a hea wave?
<MooDoo> Phineas, heat
<daubers> Morning
<directhex> ali1234: KI gold, yes.
<Phineas> daubers,  morning to you too
<directhex> Phineas: the gamecube was MUCH more powerful than the ps2, entirely capable of good graphics. look at it this way, resident evil 4 on ps2 used gamecube-rendered video files for cut scenes that were engine-based on the cube. ps2 couldn't render them itself
<MartijnVdS> Too bad they haven't kept up.. Wii can't handle HD graphics
<directhex> doesn't need to. people buyint the wii only play wii sports anyway
<dwatkins> The Wii isn't meant to handle good graphics, though, it's meant to be cheap and have motion sensors, I thought.
<DaisyTheCow> Horses for courses as they say.  The Wii does what it's meant to do very well
<bigcalm> http://twitpic.com/3cf4yr
<MooDoo> bigcalm, rats you've beat me as well
<bigcalm> Hehe
<MooDoo> get it on the ubuntu-uk planet for a new meme ;)
<bigcalm> ?
<DanielRM> An HD Wii would certainly be nice but that would be ignoring the point, which is surely the innovation.
<Phineas> directhex,  is the dreamcast better than the gamecube
<directhex> Phineas: not in terms of hardware... but it's pretty awesome anyway
<DanielRM> More powerful consoles might take you down the same road faster, but with motion control and touch interfaces and so on the DS and Wii would take you down different roads entirely, to paraphrase one of my favourite quotes.
<Phineas> directhex,  is the neo-geo pocket colour a good console?
<directhex> i was never a huge fan of NGPC
<MooDoo> bigcalm, i was just thinking of another meme for the planet, we've not had one for ages, whos got the coldest car lol
<directhex> not to say it's bad, but most SNK properties do badly on that screen
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> I don't subscribe to the planet
<Phineas> directhex,  the down side is that the neo - geo pocket colur didn't have a backlight
<DaisyTheCow> Speaking of backlights, do you guys think that the new Kindle will be any good?
<DanielRM> I'm being kindly informed by LiveJournal that my own birthday is coming up.
<DanielRM> Somehow, I think I didn't need a reminder for that.
<Phineas> DanielRM, so is mine
<daubers> DanielRM: Depends if you've contracted altzeimers recently
<DanielRM> Phineas: woo, we're almost the birthday boys! *high five*
<DanielRM> daubers: true, or if you're old enough that you'd rather forget, I suppose.
 * Phineas give DanielRM a hight five
<DanielRM> Um.
<DanielRM> Actually I fail somewhat.
<DanielRM> It would appear that I did need a reminder. I thought it was four or five days away.
<DanielRM> It's tomorrow. :-/
<daubers> quickly doesn't half pull in a lot of dependancies these days
<DanielRM> daubers: tell me, do you have any advice regarding Alzheimer's, as it would appear I need help?...
<Phineas> DanielRM,  i've got 2 weeks yet
<DanielRM> daubers: what's quickly?
<daubers> DanielRM: I did but I forgot...
<DanielRM> Tch. Fat lot of good you are. :)
<DanielRM> Phineas: two weeks today or just roughly?
<Phineas> DanielRM, roughly
<daubers> DanielRM: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly
<DanielRM> daubers: I found that, but I think I've gone too much without sleep to understand it.
<daubers> DanielRM: It's a templating system (essentially) for starting new programming projects
<DanielRM> With heavy integration into the Ubuntu platform from what I read?
<daubers> Probably
<DanielRM> Hehe.
<DanielRM> I need to write 500 more words on this essay to hand in for 4. That would be doable if my brain hadn't curled up in the foetal position and started crying to itself hours ago.
<directhex> yeah, in *python*. yuck!
<DanielRM> I'm now quite frankly sick to death of writing about Hitler's decision to invade the Soviet Union.
<Phineas> yester day i was:    http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/3600000/Phineas-phineas-and-ferb-3677056-500-588.jpg
<DanielRM> And I feel like I've somehow Godwinned my own life. :(
<DanielRM> On the plus side, reading through German Foreign Office telegrams is actually quite interesting.
 * daubers burns natty alpha 1 to CD
 * czajkowski hugs Ng THANK YOU!!!
<DanielRM> Is the alpha running Unity yet?
<daubers> Hmmm.... need a bigger CD
<DanielRM> Heh.
<MooDoo> DanielRM, yes, but things like the ubuntu logo thing, aren't there
<Phineas> DanielRM,  i think the beta  utility is running
<MooDoo> DanielRM, from jono - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/30/testing-natty-and-unity-safely-with-a-usb-stick/
<DanielRM> Ah, OK. Does the interface actually seem suited for the desktop? I've never used Unity, although most UI innovation is welcome with me.
<AlanBell> I have been using it since UDS
<AlanBell> it kind of sucks a bit with multiple monitors
<DanielRM> MooDoo: testing it safely? Pah! I'll be running it full-time once I get round to backing up my data. :)
<MooDoo> i actually quite like it
<wintellect> Mornin all
<bigcalm> AlanBell: how have you not taken your own life yet?
<AlanBell> global menu isn't much fun
<DanielRM> My Maverick install still has a few issues as a hangover from development actually. :-/
<AlanBell> can't double click the toolbar of a maximised window to restore it
<Phineas> i just made a joke with DanielRM and no one notaced
<Ng> czajkowski: yw :)
<AlanBell> windows on monitor 2 have menu on window 1
<DanielRM> Phineas: I didn't get it I'm afraid. :S
<gord> oh good, flash is going to stop sucking soon \o/
<AlanBell> some apps display their own menu which means you end up with two menus next to each other
<DanielRM> gord: getting your hopes up a bit surely?
<gord> its using vdpau now
<AlanBell> Phineas: try making a funnier joke next time
<DanielRM> Hmmm, might actually work then.
<Phineas> DanielRM,  you said "is the alpha utility running yet" and i said "i think the beta utility is running"  get it now?
<Phineas> AlanBell,  you you got the joke?
<dutchie> i think that joke only works if you pronounce "beta" wrong
<AlanBell> such as it was
<DanielRM> Phineas: if it involves a pronunciation pun such as dutchie suggests then I get it.
<Phineas> dutchie,  yes you do have to prounounce "beta" wrong.
<Phineas> DanielRM,  yeah it was
<DanielRM> Phineas: sad to say, but I don't think I'd give up my day job if I were you. :(
<DanielRM> Not that my jokes are any better, but still.
<Phineas> DanielRM,  well i try to be funny
<DanielRM> I like the one about the Vatican City being the only place in the world with two Popes per square kilometre.
<DanielRM> The popey household probably has more though.
<popey> More so at Xmas
<DanielRM> Morning popey
<DanielRM> How are you this cold morning?
<popey> Lo
<popey> made it into work
<popey> so warm now :)
<MooDoo> morning popey
<DanielRM> I'm not sure if I can afford to put the gas on. I'm now jealous of anyone who's warm.
<Phineas> popey,  very warm outside here
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jamie Bennett] Linaro 11.05 Alpha-1 Released - http://www.linuxuk.org/2010/12/linaro-11-05-alpha-1-released/
<DanielRM> All you warm people: I hope you get snowballs put down the back of your shirts. It'll serve you right.
<Phineas> DanielRM,  no snow here so no snowballs just waves to surf
<DanielRM> Phineas: you're not making the bitterness go away, just so you know. :(
<gord> DanielRM, start building Qt, i'm sure you'll warm up once your cpu catches fire
<DanielRM> gord: I could do that by playing Starcraft II, something which I'd find infinitely more entertaining and worthwhile.
<DanielRM> I'm not a fan of Qt.
<gord> what is wrong with Qt? o_O
<DanielRM> I tend not to like the feel of the applications. Something always seems wrong, used as I am to GTK.
<Phineas> yes i can save up for a new game console
<DanielRM> Phineas: 3DS!
<Phineas> DanielRM,  nope, heres a hint you said your not a fan of it
<Phineas> DanielRM,  any idea wat it is?
<DanielRM> Most consoles other than Nintendo ones fit that bill.
<czajkowski> MooDoo: whoo working from home :)
<DanielRM> I'm waffling so much in this essay.
<DanielRM> 'Ultimately, though, there exists little evidence to suggest definitively in any particular direction the point at which the decision was firmly made to go to war with the Soviet Union, and indeed'
<MooDoo> czajkowski, yay, awesome :) get the kettle on :D
<popey> care--
<DanielRM> Sympathetic popey is, well, not in the IRC channel today. :(
<Phineas> DanielRM,  heres clue 2: its made by SNK,
<DanielRM> NGPC? I don't think I gave an opinion on that. :-/
<popey> DanielRM: i hate football, don't give a toss if the world cup is in another country
<MooDoo> +1 popey
<Phineas> DanielRM,  yeah thats the one
<bigcalm> Direct Line sent me a text message this morning, telling me not to go driving anywhere soon
<DanielRM> Hehe.
<DanielRM> Phineas: I've not had an experience of SNK consoles so I don't have an opinion either way to be honest.
<DanielRM> popey: I do believe there would need to be a name change though.
<popey> I gave my SNK Neo Geo 6-slot to London Hack Space
<directhex> :O
<directhex> get me to london, stat!
<directhex> and someone fire popey!
<popey> :)
<MooDoo> roll on 2015 when the rugby world cup is in Englad :D
<popey> also gave them a cabinet
<directhex> ;'(
<popey> i kept all my JAMMA games tho
<MooDoo> czajkowski, should be interesting :D now you're in the UK :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Rugby_World_Cup
<DanielRM> We gave the world so many sports and how do they repay us? By thrashing us at every one.
<czajkowski> I may be gone by then who knos
<popey> DanielRM: que? rename what?
<DanielRM> Not that I particularly mind.
<MooDoo> czajkowski, how can i buy you rugby beer if you're not in the country.......*sulks* ;)
<DanielRM> popey: I assumed you were making a joke about the war with the Soviet Union. I think the Soviet Union as such doesn't really exist nowadays, so just 'Russia' tends to do.
<popey> I was not.
<Phineas> how come laptops always sound tiny when you play music through them?
<DanielRM> popey: then why mention football?
<popey> because they have crap speakers
<gord> because there isn't enough space for proper speakers
<popey> DanielRM: why not?
<MooDoo> what they said
<gord> apple ones aren't too bad though for speakers
<DanielRM> popey: fair enough.
<popey> Indeed
<popey> the speakers on my MBP are better than any other laptop I've owned
<DanielRM> Quite.
<popey> including the dell XPS which allegedly had a subwoofer
<popey> (which was a lie)
<DanielRM> Apple seem to have superb audio hardware in general in my experience.
<popey> uhm, nah
<popey> ipod headphones are the worst
<DanielRM> :-/
<popey> the audio chips in ipods are cheap crap
<Phineas> well both of my laptops sound tiny whatsoever
<DanielRM> I've always found them quite good.
<popey> o_O
<popey> ipod headphones (the white ones) leak _badly_
<DanielRM> Best headphones I ever used were ipod ones.
<popey> you need new ears
<popey> or better music
<DanielRM> Although this may be saying more about how rubbish the other headphones were.
<popey> or a wider selection of headphones to test
<DanielRM> I've not had much experience outside of 99p ones from the supermarket.
<popey> right, [SLAM] case closed
 * DanielRM jumps at the loud noise.
<popey> I currently have Zaag ones which are okay, but nothing great
<DanielRM> I probably do need new ears anyway.
<MooDoo> popey, you in a mood this morning?
<Phineas> popey,  well i do have music that sounds good on headphones but tiny on loudspeaker (laptop by stone computers and laptop by toshiba)
<popey> nope
<popey> Phineas: I think you mean tinny?
<DanielRM> My friend spent a fortune on Bose speakers once but I couldn't tell the difference from the speakers that came with the computer.
<popey> Phineas: its due to the crap speakers
<Phineas> popey,  alogh i only just notace how crap the speakers are when i removed the headphones (for the first time in 3 years) and kaboom huge diffrence
<directhex> bose suck
<directhex> they're a marketing company, their technology is flat-out wrong
<DanielRM> Phineas: I assume you spent most of the past three years not being able to hear anything other than your computer?
 * daubers makes some notes on a bug
 * MooDoo makes a coffee and prods czajkowski 
<Phineas> DanielRM,  nope i just only used headphones with my computer
<DanielRM> directhex: I bow to your superior knowledge on this issue. As can probably be seen I'm an audiophile's worst nightmare.
<popey> oh, I'm no audiophile
<directhex> DanielRM: i'm not an audiophile... i just know you're meant to cover the human audible range, and not have a huge gap in the middle
 * daubers loves his sennheiser headphones
<gord> i setup some cheep 5.1 surround sound on my desktop last week, makes me very happy :)
<DanielRM> I tend to lump in anyone who knows more than me about audio as an audiophile.
<DanielRM> Which makes it a very broad category indeed.
<gord> and makes minecraft a thousand times scarier
<popey> i love my el-cheapo sennheiser hd212 headphones
<DanielRM> There are bits of damp moss growing on the underside of drains which know more about audio than me.
<MooDoo> I've got some hd415 headphones, they are ok :)
<gord> i also love my el-cheepo sennheiser PC350 headphones
<Phineas> 1 word for cheap headphones , poundland (or wallmart)
<directhex> http://www.intellexual.net/faq/am15freqa.jpg
<daubers> popey: Mine aree HD415 :)
<daubers> Want some of the wireless ones, but not yet won the lottery
<dwatkins> curse you, ebuyer, for advertising your wares to me....
<Ng> daubers: don't get the sennheiser wireless headphones that use FM
<Ng> they're awful
<daubers> Ng: Noted
<dwatkins> I have Sennheiser HD 201s, they're excellent, but wired.
<Ng> heavy, poor quality sound and they fall off your head if you even think about looking up or down
<Ng> I use them for when I'm doing tv/movie/ps3 stuff and my gf is snoozing on the sofa, but it's not a particularly pleasant aural experience :(
<daubers> Ng: This was what I was thinking of http://www.sennheiser.co.uk/uk/home_en.nsf/root/private_headphones_wireless-headphones_502873
<Ng> daubers: those look better in almost every way than the analogue ones I have :)
<daubers> Ng: Â£Too much though :(
 * popey points and laughs at sennheiser for using Lotus Domino!
<popey> home_en.nsf indeed
<popey> *chortle*
<dwatkins> daubers: how about using a phone as a playback device? AirSync seems to work well for synchronising, too.
<daubers> dwatkins: You wah?
<dwatkins> daubers: do you have a smartphone?
<DanielRM> Are there any good phone speakers though?
<dwatkins> I use my phone with headphones mostly, DanielRM
<popey> the built in speaker on the iphone is surprisingly good
<daubers> dwatkins: Yep, can't listen to the Wii or somesuch through it though
<directhex> DanielRM: yeah, there's an htc WP7 phone designed for use as a speaker-based music player
<DanielRM> dwatkins: ah.
<dwatkins> ah I see, daubers
<popey> better than the n82 or HTC hero I had before it
<DanielRM> Argh.
<dwatkins> popey: I have an iPhone too, been listening to lots of audio books on it recently. May switch to android again soon, though.
<directhex> http://www.htc.com/www/product/7mozart/overview.html
<DanielRM> I thought the essay was 500 words shorter than it actually was.
<dwatkins> There may even be an app for Android that does sound via bluetooth or wifi
 * daubers waits to see of unity works
<popey> Hi fidelity.. what is this, 1970?
<popey> get your quadrophonic speakers!
<dwatkins> don't forget the 2 metre diameter audio cable...
<daubers> ooooooh shiny
<MooDoo> hi fidelity?  isn't that from fame ;)
<daubers> Hmmm... no applications pane thingy at the moment then
<directhex> popey: what was that about surround? http://www.htc.com/www/product/7surround/overview.html
<popey> oh jeez
<popey> my _car_ even has Dolby Pro-Logic!
<daubers> popey: The volvo??
<popey> yes
<daubers> Blimey
<daubers> Was that an option?
<popey> I didn't buy it from new
<popey> so I didn't specify it as such
<screen-x> do sd cards have to have a physical lock switch?
<daubers> Ah ok
<MooDoo> screen-x, yes i do beleive they do,
<daubers> screen-x: Mine do
<directhex> yes
 * daubers needs to dash to his parents and sell his car
<MartijnVdS> .. and hide the bodies
<daubers> Or just get them out of the boot....
<screen-x> The lock is the only part of an sd card that has failed for me so far, I was hoping to be able buy one without..
<screen-x> microsd cards don't have them..
<screen-x> BOFH question: should I allocate more space to /home, or tell people to delete stuff?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<jpds> screen-x: What MartijnVdS said, yes.
<screen-x> hmmm I thought that might be the answer.
<screen-x> I have plenty of spare space, but the snapshots already take ages, and I'm not sure people _need_ more space..
<andylockran> howdy
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<screen-x> morning andylockran
<andylockran> morning guys
<andylockran> how's things?
<andylockran> I gave my girlfriend a box with a little bit of water in it for Christmas.
<andylockran> She said " What's this about "
<andylockran> I said " Well it was snow:
<andylockran> she said - " well it's the thaw-t that counts"
<screen-x> ahhaha
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<andylockran> I thought that was particularly good.
<andylockran> more of a http://budumtsch.popey.com than a http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<andylockran> 404 - humour not found :)
<bigcalm> Ha
<popey> ok
<popey> http://tarby.popey.com/ then
<nperry> I love not making a coffee at work for about a week now.
<popey> or http://joke.popey.com/
<nperry> Every else seems to have the idea first
<screen-x> nperry: I think that makes it your roudn
<bigcalm> A new The Infinite Money Cage. Yay
<popey> yay
<screen-x> popey: why were you ipopey for a while yesterday?
<popey> because I was connected from an apple device
<screen-x> isn't that par for the course?
<popey> isnt what?
<screen-x> ignore me, so you are ipopey in colloquy.. that makes sense.
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> Doh, I actually listened to this ep. on an actual radio
<nperry> Heh police checking out cctv for some reg plate theifs, car pulls up and two men get out with screwdrivers
<nperry> How many pikeys does it take to unscrew a reg plate :(
<andylockran> nperry: where at ?
<nperry> My work :)
<nperry> I'll upload the video when I get home
<domjohnson> Has anyone here got an Intuos4 working under 10.10?
<popey> no idea what that is!
<domjohnson> Its a Wacom graphics tablet.
<popey> i know doctormo was doing stuff with those
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone here got a linky linky? Pretty Please? https://twitter.com/#!/opensourcerer/statuses/10643653328375808
<popey> domjohnson: he may be around in #ubuntu-community-team
<MooDoo> domjohnson, have you checked out the threads on the ubuntu forums - http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7093065&postcount=104
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: what are you trying to do with the two?
<andylockran> openldap aliases?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I would like to build a new mail server for our business, postfix, dovecot and use ldap for the back-end.
<domjohnson> MooDoo - I saw that, but didn't read it as its only for tablet PCs, but will have a read now
<domjohnson> Thanks :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have ldap installed and working with ssl/tls from here: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/serverguide/C/openldap-server.html
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: you contemplated using bongo?
<andylockran> bongo-project.org
<andylockran> I've got the postfix, openldap, horde, cyrus-imapd setup running on multiple boxes
<domjohnson> I haven't bought one yet, just want to see if it does work OK
<domjohnson> God, I hate this snow :(
<nperry> Right my ears are finally warm up, thanks convector heater on my table
<TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran: I had not come across that before. It looks a tad "raw" at the moment. And anyway I would like to do it myself for a learning exercise too.
<domjohnson> I think we should compare snow depths...
<domjohnson> lol
<nperry> 4'
<sprite> 4ft
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah - This funny. In Dublin too czajkowski ;-) http://twitpic.com/3cfpmk
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: ok - well advice for postfix would be ldap-aliases.cf
<andylockran> nice easy syntax - poke me if you have issues
<czajkowski> oh that was the bad crash last year
<MooDoo> heeh
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty
<czajkowski> not sure if those were the real adds. but it was a very bad crash :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> thanks andylockran
<finelytuned> o/
<czajkowski> the luas (train) went through a green light and the bus went through a red light.
<MooDoo> now i feel guilty for chuckling at it
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: do poke me - have experience with that setup on CentOS + Gentoo - but only brief bits on ubuntu
<popey> http://twitpic.com/3cfpma
<popey> you can see the advert isnt specsavers
<bigcalm> What is the advert?
<popey> should have gone to specsavers
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> I cannie make it out
<bigcalm> Oh, hello 11am
<bigcalm> :S
<bigcalm> Went cave exploring whilst listening to TIMC :S
<bigcalm> Came across 2 traps
<AlanBell> you can even see in the reflection of the window that it is a thomas cook avert, not a specsavers one
<Twinkletoes> I've used autofs to mount an smb share, and want to export it via nfs for my other clients.  autofs works ok, but when I try to export via nfs, I get the error "exportfs: Warning: /<dir> does not support NFS export."   Am I missing something here?
<Twinkletoes> I suppose I could shar eit using samba
<dwatkins> I'm not sure you can export a remotely-mounted directory with NFS.
<dwatkins> I've had problems with this before.
<Azelphur> I have problems with my computer continually falling back to the login screen, yet I can't see anything crash-related in Xorg.*.log http://pastebin.com/6idHe5f7
<bigcalm> Azelphur: how about /var/log/messages?
<Azelphur> It started happening after I swapped my nvidia 6600 for an nvidia 9500
<Azelphur> hmm
<bigcalm> Maybe there is a memory fault on the new card
<dwatkins> the mode seems to be automatically selected, Azelphur - have you tried selecting a screen resolution as well?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: nope, as I say it works for a while and then randomly falls to the login screen
<Azelphur> hmm pastebin doesn't like /var/log/messages
<bigcalm> o.O
<Azelphur> it's too big :p
<dwatkins> What, you don't export every line from it to twitter? ;-)
<andylockran> just cat the last few lines :)
<Azelphur> haha
<screen-x> Azelphur: http://sprunge.us
 * AlanBell wonders how hard it would be to extend pastebinit to point to twitter
<Azelphur> ah it's easy anyway
<Azelphur> no there's nothing in dmesg
<Azelphur> there's only 4 messages from today
<bigcalm> Azelphur: next time it fails, tail -f /var/log/messages
<bigcalm> I have found that dmesg doesn't always reflect /var/log/messages
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/ruynib0Z the only messages from today
<Azelphur> but yea I need to set up a monitor for X so when it crashes I can catch the time and look in logs for it
<bigcalm> Maybe your gfx card is overheating
<Azelphur> bigcalm: it's just running mythtv
<bigcalm> </stabInTheDark>
<Azelphur> and I don't have vdpau enabled
<Azelphur> the 6600 handled it fine
<bigcalm> Do you have the old card still?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: yea
<bigcalm> Try swapping it back and see if the issue is still present
<Azelphur> could try that too
<bigcalm> Or make a sacrafice to the computer gods
 * popey gets the chicken, candles and chalk
 * popey starts drawing a pentagram on the floor
 * MooDoo gets the baby oil.......
<MooDoo> ah wrong channel ;')
<andylockran> 1:p
<Azelphur> rofl
<bigcalm> Now, where will we find a virgin in this field?
 * AlanBell takes the chicken back from popey 
<popey> anyway, Azelphur could be nvidia driver or hardware
<Azelphur> yea
<popey> Azelphur: switch to nv or nouveau to prove that
<Azelphur> nv doesn't support 9500GT :(
<bigcalm> That's a terrible sterio type. Wonder if it's less of a truism yet
<popey> comments about nouveau not being as good as nvidia driver to /dev/null
<Azelphur> and nouveau doesn't seem to get anywhere with S-Video out
<bigcalm> â±â´âââ´Ï
<bigcalm> Weird trend on twitter
<popey> i see squares
<bigcalm> Me too
<andylockran> I see Follow
<andylockran> in silly text
<Nafallo> I see unicode
<popey> stupid windows fonts
<Nafallo> Terminus actually
<Nafallo> i.e. what you get on tty1-6 by default...
<kazade> Azelphur, try creating a new login - it might be a user-specific configuration option confusing the nvidia driver
<kazade> as it's happening after login
<kazade> Azelphur, I mean create a new test user
<Azelphur> it's happening well after login
<Azelphur> it'll stay up for a few hours then crash
<kazade> oh right ok
<kazade> I thought it was just after, bm
<kazade> nm
<Azelphur> as I say I need to stick an uptime monitor on VNC so I can see when X goes down
<Azelphur> and then look in various log files
<DanielRM> Azelphur: couldn't you just run a logging program in a terminal in X and then see where the log terminates?
<Azelphur> that's easier, good idea :)
<DanielRM> Something like: while `sleep 60`; echo `date` > log; done
<DanielRM> I think date's the right command.
<Azelphur> I would just run DISPLAY=:0.0 gnome-terminal; date
<Azelphur> when terminal gets terminated (ie x crashes), I get the date \o/
<DanielRM> Even better.
<MartijnVdS> tail -f /var/log/Xorg.0.log? :)
<Azelphur> been there done that
<popey> which version of nvidia driver do you have?
<popey> also...
<Azelphur> 185
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Backtracing
<popey> leave that running to get a trace when x fails
<Azelphur> will do
<popey> that will be the most useful thing to do
<bigcalm> Council where I used to live: http://www.malvernhills.gov.uk
 * bigcalm boogies
 * bigcalm points at the header image
<bigcalm> Sod the rest of the site
<AlanBell> nice!
<AlanBell> that was your 15 minutes of fame
<bigcalm> AlanBell: enjoying it while I can
<bigcalm> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/3266482407/
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.struttandparker.com/residential-property-to-let/london-w-/property_2637.html
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS, i think i'm moving ;)
<X3N> dd
<AlanBell> if anyone is of a twittering nature it would be great to get some more publicity about the christmas party
<AlanBell> http://twitter.com/#!/alanbelltolc/status/10654033622601728
<MooDoo> AlanBell, done :D
<popey> ditto
<X3N> not sure if i'm going to make it now
<popey> :(
<X3N> popey: did you see http://www.linux.fm ?
<popey> no
<popey> oh dear, how tedious
<X3N> :)
<bigcalm> Oh my :(
<bigcalm> That's horrid
<MooDoo> wtf!
<dogmatic69> lol
 * bigcalm gets back to the drum & bass
<bigcalm> What to have for lunch...
<dogmatic69> pizza
<MooDoo> what a waste of a domain
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I ran a site that tells you if it's the weekend or not. Humm, that was more useful actually
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: too far, please try again
<TheOpenSourcerer> Seen this? http://open-pc.com/
<bigcalm> Actually, might get an oven pizza from Waitrose
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: www.pizzahut.co.uk is too far?
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: As you can get out, please get me some shopping too.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: it's a 15 min drive to the closest pizzahut
<bigcalm> And I fear my GF will throw a wobbly if she finds out I did that
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: thats the great thing about delivery, its their problem
<dogmatic69> lol
<bigcalm> They don't deliver
<dogmatic69> i would move
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> I'm happy with the 20mb cable connection. That's keeping me where I am
<bigcalm> Decent internet connection beats pizza for this geek
<dogmatic69> i got 20mb and pizza deliveries <3
<bigcalm> Dominos do delivery. But their food is pants
<dogmatic69> most of the pizza in the uk is pants :/
<shauno> I keep getting dominos just because their online ordering rocks.  they got that bit right.
<bigcalm> Tell a lie. My local dominos don't deliver either
<bigcalm> Bah
<dogmatic69> have not found a place that makes proper wood oven pizza
<shauno> if someone taught them how to cook, it'd be fantastic
<bigcalm> Pizza Express is ace
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.pizza.co.uk/
<bigcalm> And I had a cracking pizza from PizzaHut on Tuesday
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: We`re sorry, Pizza.co.uk has no restaurants listed in your area.
<bigcalm> Ta though
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: just put my postcode and the site died
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: nice :)
<daubers> Oooooh, lovely hot coffee
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_minigame_controversy ?
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Haha, cool
<screen-x> How do I tell the difference between hyper threading/dual core/dual cpu?
<screen-x> /proc/cpuinfo lists two CPUs
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: look at the "physical id" and "core id"
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Ummm... no
<kazade> serious question... does Gwibber ever work?
<andylockran> yes
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: both are physical ID 0, there are no core ids listed, so this must be single processor, hyper threaded?
<screen-x> kazade: nope
<Nafallo> kazade: I've seen it working.
<kazade> IMO it's the buggiest app in the default install (and that includes U1)
<andylockran> I like pino
<screen-x> andylockran: oauth?
<kazade> yeah I'm gonna find something else...
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: on a dual quadcore server here I see siblings = 8 for each core
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: so "siblings" is (hyperthreading + cores) I think
<kazade> I'm gonna find one that doesn't use up this much memory: 12059 luke      20   0  581m  84m  28m S    0  4.2   0:02.18 gwibber
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: if there is no "cpu cores" entry, cores = 1, and "siblings" = ht
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/539367/
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: can you pastebin your /proc/cpuinfo? :)
 * screen-x reads your mind
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: yeah... siblings=2, physid=0, that's 2 hyperthreading bits
<screen-x> thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> also the "ht" flags bit
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell http://bettr.org/
 * daubers waits for someone to buy his car
<Nafallo> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-11908583
<czajkowski> daubers: you may not get many viewings with this weather
<daubers> czajkowski: Had one this morning :) Best time to view a car IMO as you can easily see if the seals are knackered
<daubers> czajkowski: Sold!
<popey> blimey
<popey> that was quick
<czajkowski> yay
<screen-x> daubers: :D
<MooDoo> wow
<screen-x> daubers: did you get haggle?
<screen-x> I wish I could come up with a sentence that made sense.. s/get//
<daubers> screen-x: Yup, but that's ok, as I allowed some margin in the price for that :)
<screen-x> daubers: a professional :)
<daubers> screen-x: :p
<popey> i had a silly idea in the shower today
<andylockran> lol
<andylockran> We've got a new person in the office
<andylockran> while I was out at lunch, I left my computer screens on and spotify playing
<andylockran> I killed spotify when I was out, and loaded up xeyes, whilst playing theme from Phantom of the Opera via mpg123
<andylockran> was amusing when I returned to the office
<andylockran> she was like 'I haven't done anything;
<andylockran> is that cruel?
<popey> so anyway..
<popey> a script which runs on a minimal ubuntu install and goes to get the source for the entire desktop and compiles it a'la gentoo
<popey> gentubuntoo!
<andylockran> popey: the point of that being?
<popey> not quite sure what the point would be
<shauno> to justify the invention of the moniker, I assume
<popey> i just wondered if it could be done with the standard tools
<popey> apt-get source for each package
<popey> and apt-get build-dep, but that would bring in binary packages
<popey> so maybe have a sources.list which _only_ has deb-src lines and no deb lines
<andylockran> popey: loop them both until you have them all
<popey> so it can only pull in source
<andylockran> popey: I'm willing to give this a go if you like?
<popey> and point sources.list at a local repo which you fill using the packages that have been locally compiled
<popey> so eventually you can do apt-get install ubuntu-desktop and it pull in everything from the local repo that was built locally
<popey> does that make sense?
<andylockran> ^ = gentoo binhost
<andylockran> yeah
<andylockran> as you can add location-specific configs to the debs
<andylockran> if required.
<shauno> I'd be curious to see if that could figure out when packages have been updated
<popey> yeah, something to get new source, rebuild etc
<shauno> eg, when /var/cache/packages has version n, and apt-mirror has n+1, does it tweak and grab
<AlanBell> that all sounds like a sufficiently big effort that there should be some kind of point to it
<shauno> does sound like a wonderfully interesting exercise in self-harm
<AlanBell> could things be compiled in a more optimised way or something?
<shauno> I believe locally compiled packages are built --with-racing-stripes, where hosted repositories aren't
<popey> yes alejandraobregon
<popey> er AlanBell
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> and hi alejandraobregon o/
<brobostigon> afternoonings all
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon how goes it?
<andylockran> a.
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo and andylockran
<brobostigon> MooDoo: not too bad, shabby round the edges. how about you ?
<MooDoo> brobostigon, aye not bad...i'm ready for the weekend :D
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<Daviey> popey: RE, you rebuilding.... I would use rerepro to create a source archive, and rebuildd to build the packages and re-inject them back into the archive
<Daviey> popey: You'd uncover a bunch of FTBFS's :)
<AlanBell> how does that happen?
<Nafallo> AlanBell: stuff getting built against superseeded stuff and then not rebuilt against current versions.
<daubers> AlanBell: You let Daviey touch them....
<Daviey> hah
<Daviey> In Maverick, a couple happend due to toolchain changes
<Daviey> But yes, as Nafallo said.
<Nafallo> toolchain is "stuff" :-)
<Nafallo> well, a fraction of stuff :-P
<Lcawte> o.o I thought I was already in here... hm..
<screen-x> printer question: If I change a toner cartridge, but it doesn't solve my problem, can I go back to the old toner, and store the new one for later? or should a toner be left in the printer once it's been opened?
<MooDoo> screen-x, i think it can be stored, might be better to do it in an air tight bag
<daubers> screen-x: Really really ensure that it's not goign to go anywhere a little bit damp
<screen-x> thanks MooDoo and daubers
<MooDoo> no worries
<popey> Daviey: thats true
 * Nafallo heads up to Canary Wharf
<MichealH> Hey all
<MichealH> I know about the hack day were having on 10/10/10
<MichealH> *10/12/10
<MichealH> If anyone wants to look at the Ubuntu Drupal Work then http://staging.profarius.com/ and staging7.profarius.com/ are a few examples of our work.
<AlanBell> Orange is the new brown
<MichealH> If anyone has a good idea for the site but is having issues on the day could seek help from #webdevel if they really needed to.
<daubers> AlanBell: and Red is the new Green
<daubers> (my excuse anyway)
<MichealH> AlanBell: We have a Brown,Orange,Blue and Pink theme
<popey> MichealH: we're using wordpress, not drupal FYI
<MichealH> popey: Oh
<MichealH> We still have CSS which we could use
<popey> have you seen the site?
<popey> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/
<MichealH> popey: Yup
<shauno> hah.  this is probably "you had to be there", but I just pasted that url into two ticket commits instead of my usual "that's not a problem"
<shauno> luckily a coworker spotted I was on autopilot :/
<dwatkins> shauno: you get a lot of tickets which aren't a problem?
<shauno> yes, unfortunately
 * dwatkins does too
<MooDoo> shauno, what you do for a living?
<shauno> monitor off-site equipment
<MattJ> Works for Microsoft? *ducks*
<shauno> at the moment low humidity alarms are pure spam, thanks to the weather
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lsW0D5f6cIA/SaTghI5s30I/AAAAAAAAAAk/e7Otip1mvds/s1600-R/you-are-being-monitored.jpg ?
<MooDoo> MattJ, i bet they are good to work for
<shauno> MartijnVdS: :)
<MattJ> MooDoo: I think they're likely just about the same as any other large company :)
<MattJ> MooDoo: http://www.qbrundage.com/michaelb/pubs/essays/working_at_microsoft.html
<MooDoo> MattJ, that's a interesting read :D
<MattJ> There's another not-so-positive one somewhere, about the pain of participating in Windows development
<MattJ> but you find people unhappy with participating in Ubuntu development too, so... :)
<MooDoo> yes, i think it's the culture people are interested in
<MooDoo> MattJ, go to work, code for an hour or so then go play table football
<MooDoo> :D
<MattJ> :)
<MattJ> or just... not go to work :)
 * MattJ gets on fine working from home
<MooDoo> MattJ, i'd love to work from home
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, You about?
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes selinuxium I am.
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Was it you that did that lamb dish that took days...
<TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: It was I
<selinuxium> Yay!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Raan
<selinuxium> What was it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> here's a decent recipe: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/gallery/2009/apr/07/lamb-easter-recipe-raan
<popey> thats the one I used
<TheOpenSourcerer> or search twitter for #twooking
<TheOpenSourcerer> I gave popey the url ;-)
<selinuxium>  :)
<selinuxium> Cheers guys  :)
<bigcalm> popey: what can you do with the green lined cobble stone you get from around traps?
<bigcalm> Can't turn it into smooth stone in a furnace
<popey> bigcalm: dunno, i have some of it kicking around
<popey> s/traps/mob spawners/
<bigcalm> Yus
<bigcalm> And are snowballs good for anything?
<popey> fun for throwing at cows
<popey> my kids love that
<bigcalm> Haha
<popey> P-TWANG!
<bigcalm> I'm going to try building a towser in the middle of a frozen lake
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone configured openldap on ubuntu recently for remote browsing of cn=config? By default it's locked to uid=0 (i.e. root on localhost) from what I can tell.
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: I'd just use an SSH tunnel for now.. ssh $ldapserver 389:localhost:389
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: I'd just use an SSH tunnel for now.. ssh $ldapserver -L 389:localhost:389 ...
 * daubers wonders how difficult his drive the Birmingham will be on Sunday
 * popey wonders if AlanBell is about and has seen https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-developer-manual/msg00050.html
<dwatkins> the South has so little snow, it shouldn't be a problem, but somehow it is, daubers
<popey> which is in 40 mins
<AlanBell> yes, and no
<AlanBell> what is the IRC channel for the developer manual?
<popey> #quickly
<popey> which you're in
<AlanBell> huh, wouldn't have guessed that
<daubers> dwatkins: Hmmm.. hopefully we'll get no more snow tonight or tomorrow
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/ boringcam is boring
<czajkowski> popey: another snow day ?
<popey> (s)no
<brobostigon> lol
<dwatkins> nice, popey
<czajkowski> right time to brave the cold and hit the shops, I need milk for tea, not had any all day long!
<dwatkins> take care, czajkowski
 * dwatkins walked to the shop in a t-shirt the other day, but wouldn't do that today as it's even colder now
<czajkowski> it's warmer in stuttgart :D
<czajkowski> there is a god
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/webcam/20101202.avi time lapse of the most boring camera ever! :D
<sprite> i just installed GnomeXchat and WOW
 * nperry claps
<sprite> it's a far cry from the original
 * sprite tips hat to the golfclap
<sprite> assumedly no one here is using it? It doesn't seem to have the capacity to remember servers / rooms
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Nook Color GPL update - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/130871.html
<Azelphur> sprite: yea nobody uses it, it's bad :p
<MooDoo> popey, how quickly does it refresh?
<popey> whenever there's a sufficient delta between one image and the next
<popey> sorry, thats how often an image is uploaded / taken
<popey> the page updates every 2 mins
<MooDoo> ah ok
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/ that page
<sprite> HA! This app was labelled as 'sane' in the description. Azelphur, I'm glad you concur.
<MooDoo> hmmmm good avi, shame all i can see is the tree wobble ;)
<Azelphur> :)
<nperry> sprite: this is irc not msn chat, we have channels :)
<popey> MooDoo: i have other days to encode
<popey> one where there is no snow
<popey> so you should see it all build :)
<MooDoo> can't believe i'm watching this waiting for it to go dark lol
<MooDoo> hehe this is pretty cool :)
<popey> :)
<popey> my poor little Acer Revo is straining to do this
<popey> GB of images encoding down to an avi
<popey> plus it's monitoring the power usage in the house at the same time
<popey> cracking value for money that revo
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/house/
 * sprite safely back on normal irc client... woo
<ging> if i write popey towers on an envolope with a stamp on it would it find it's way to you?
<popey> http://popey.com/house/ better url :)
<daubers> ging: addressed to "The one, the only, _THE_ popey"?
<popey> that would get to my wife :)
<popey> she is @therealpopey on twitter :)
<popey> (not that she uses it)
<daubers> heh
<popey> hah, that box is also backing up my gmail constantly :)
<popey> go little atom, go!
<czajkowski> too dodgey to leave
<popey> top - 16:42:48 up 10 days, 16:55,  7 users,  load average: 5.28, 5.31, 4.35
<daubers> Woot, risk of Atom-ic explosion high
<daubers> :p
 * daubers gets his coat
 * brobostigon gives czajkowski his spike clipons for shoes.
<MooDoo> czajkowski, you don't need to leave, unless you run out of supplied
<sprite> -d + +s
<MooDoo> sprite, thanks :D
<MooDoo> however i might have meant supplied :p
<sprite> -run +ran ;p
<MooDoo> hee hee
<sprite> i really like ubuntu. since upgrading yesterday to 10.04. but there seems to be an odd bug with WEP wifi
<MooDoo> sprite, what's that then?
<sprite> since you asked; it connected fine to WEP for about 10 minutes and now is unable to reconnect. it continues to ask for the WEP key which is the same as it was the first time. WPA seems not to be an issue.
<MooDoo> have you looked at the ubuntu bugs website to see if anyone else is having an issue like that?
<sprite> as a matter of factly I am doing that as we speak. there seems to be a great many people having the same issue but with a wide range of proposed reasons. mainly for dell broadcoms whilst mine is realtek
<sprite> i know the proper driver for my card is still in beta but it worked find on 8.04 so something has changed :)
<sprite> -d +e
<Azelphur> I want some cool slippers, like ones with a Ubuntu logo on :)
<Azelphur> My slippers broke :(
<sprite> LOL
<WelshDragon> How do you break slippers? O.o
<Azelphur> they are old and the glue on them is wearing out
<Azelphur> so they are falling apart
<czajkowski> dear chicken please thaw out, I want to cook then eat you
<dogmatic69> czajkowski: put it in the fridge, its warmer in there
<czajkowski> it has been since last night
<czajkowski> :s
<WelshDragon> czajkowski, microwave?
<czajkowski> that's plan B alright
<WelshDragon> Why's it not plan A? :o
<czajkowski> plan A was let it defrost
 * czajkowski fancies making a korma 
<jpds> czajkowski: Is that likke karma?
 * czajkowski pokes jpds 
<bigcalm> I prefer something a little otter
<WelshDragon> czajkowski, you know you can also oven cook chicken from frozen?
<jacobw> i hate tuna steaks
<czajkowski> WelshDragon: yes, but I want to fry it
<jacobw> (that is all i have to say)
<dogmatic69> czajkowski: get one of these, know someone that uses it to defrost things, takes around 15min http://www.wisefull.com/images/200906/1245917484942194433.jpg
<czajkowski> hmmm
<WelshDragon> dogmatic69, what is that? :s
<dogmatic69> car amp heat sink
<DanteAshton> Hey all. I have a very interesting item for everyone; is there anyone in the Cotswolds area who wants to help us create an advert?
<DanteAshton> we now have studio access :D
<DanteAshton> (whoops; I'm lead of the Ubuntu Advertising Team, btw)
 * UndiFineD sprays some confetti around DanteAshton 
<DanteAshton> Thank you, thank you.
<DanteAshton> Now, anyone want to give us a hand?
<DanteAshton> Anyone? Come on, we're being serious here :P
<zleap> cool DanteAshton , i have been working on some promotion down here
<zleap> or would like to
<cassidyjames> DanteAshton: Oh. You're already over here. :P
<DanteAshton> great, zleap, what have you been doing?
<zleap> i wrote a short article for the rugby club newsletter
<zleap> also have 100 cd's to distribute,  made a few posters
<zleap> just need some decent materials really to push things
<DanteAshton> well...we're looking at creating video, audio and graphics ads for Ubuntu
<zleap> nice
<DanteAshton> Mark S has contacted us and said that if our work is good enough (which it will be, considering we've got a studio now)  then it will be offically promoted
<zleap> YAY
<zleap> sounds excellent
<zleap> i have booked 4 dclug meetings for 2010 (jan - apr) so that gives us a good starting point
<cassidyjames> zleap: But we need people experienced with video creation to help us out. :P
<zleap> thats not really me then
<DanteAshton> hey, we need actors
<DanteAshton> and we need people in Glouster to help us shoot the damn thing
<zleap> hmm,  i am in devon
<MonsterKiller> lol
<DanteAshton> no skills are needed, but hands and a willingness to travel are. :P
<DanteAshton> Come on guys and gals, fantastic opptunity here...
<zleap> if you e-mail me the details i can forward to the dclug for you
<zleap> by offocially promoted does this mean tv ads
<zleap> i am sure I read somewhere you can advertise on back of busses for 7.99 a week
<cassidyjames> zleap: Probably through the web first.
<zleap> ok
<cassidyjames> At some point TV would be great, too.
<zleap> well i am happy to link or host videos
<directhex> tv is so '90s. in this day & age, the best way to be seen is the back of milk cartons
<cassidyjames> directex: Ha!
<DanteAshton> TV ads are expensive, we're looking at creating them for the cinema first
<cassidyjames> directhex: I spelled your name wrong. Was thinking "DirectX"
<DanteAshton> and possibly radio
<zleap> ohh
<jacobw> great obscure reference :)
<DanteAshton> and TV later, when we get the funding (they cost bloody thousands to air)
<zleap> cinema would be good esp before a movie which is digital animation, that perhaps used linux somewhere in the process
<zleap> what are the main cinema promotors who run the cinemas
<DanteAshton> No idea, that was Mark's idea :D
<zleap> can't remember who they are now off hand
<directhex> usually it's subcontracted
<jacobw> pearl & dean?
<jacobw> dunno
<zleap> yeah them
<directhex> DCM are one of the main advertising subcontractors
<DanteAshton> Well, we need hands, animators, musicians, graphic artists, authors...
<zleap> i still think that we need to get the name out there so the more people that see ubuntu it will be familar and hopefully at some point as familar as microsoft
<DanteAshton> Please, please, I beg you; this will be Ubuntu's unvieling to the public at large.
<directhex> still called carlton screen in ireland
<zleap> DanteAshton, i understand that so i guess we need to get it rigth
<zleap> right
<zleap> well i am going to put a short piece in the next rugby newsletter about the alpha 1 release
<UndiFineD> yes, it would require a lot of planning
<DanteAshton> if you can also put out our requirements as well, I'd love you forever.
<DanteAshton> Now, I'm travelling down to Guildford in the near future to deal with some musician friends of mine who are interested in helping
<zleap> DanteAshton, e-mail me on zleap@zleap.net and I will forward
<DanteAshton> if anyone wants to meet me there, or here, my email is danteashton@gmail.com
<bigcalm> Oh, it's just gone 6pm. I can code for fun now
<zleap> are people still here ?
<DanteAshton> yes, sorry
<DanteAshton> had to go and have a ciggie, I'm overly excited :P
<zleap> ok
<zleap> np
<zleap> i need to send this mini article in to a few places once i have edited it a bt more
<zleap> i guess once we have an internet video it will be a case of promoting it , linking to it and sharing as much as possible
<UndiFineD> indeed, those are in our plans
<zleap> just created an event on fb for the release of 11.04
<sprite> yay for the new Libre
<jacobw> new Libre?
<DanteAshton> Office?
<sprite> yeah
<DanteAshton> how do you pronounce Libre, anyway?
<sprite> lee-bra
<DanteAshton> Thought so...
<DanteAshton> cheers :)
<sprite> it's not exactly going to make a dent on the market but i believe in their mission
<zleap> so libra office is then new open office
<jacobw> yeah
<sprite> in a matter of speaking it is. a lot of the same people who fell out with the direction OOo is going
<sprite> .oO(jesus that's poor grammar. hopefully no one notices)
<zleap> so will 11.04 come with libra or open office
<zleap> sprite, no probs
<zleap> hi rogerf
<rogerf> hi
<finelytuned> evenin
<sprite> salut
<sprite> zleap, it should come with libra
<zleap> ok cool
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> libre
<zleap> will make sure I try and tell people that then
<andylockran> :)
<zleap> hopefully libraoffice will go in to the opendisc too
<zleap> so it filters around that way
<andylockran> The Document Foundation is one to look at too - they're the 'council' for LibreOffice I believe.
 * DanteAshton sent an email to the mailing list and hopes it's correct.
<zleap> ok
<zleap> will get a link up at some point from my site + others
<andylockran> I was subscribed to the marketing list for OOo, so did so for LO too - but there's too much noise and stuff going on for me to be useful, so I signed off
<zleap> i find that
<zleap> messages get lost very easy
<andylockran> I could keep up with it - but keeping up was an effort
<andylockran> and I have other stuff to concentrate on (un)fortunately
<Danawar2> Hey guys im trying to get onto my file server at university and normally by putting https://exchange.plymouth.ac.uk/home/#username#/ in windows it would ask for a password how can I do this on Ubuntu?
<zleap> brb something has gone wrong
<Danawar2> not through a web browser*
<finelytuned> wb zleap
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> i think i need more then 2gb of ram here really
<finelytuned> makes 2 of us zleap
<sprite> signing off ta
<finelytuned> nn
<andylockran> Danawar2: you still about?
<Danawar2> andylockran: heyaa
<andylockran> Danawar2: it looks like when you get to that it's got a HTTP authentication method on the page - so you have to enter your username and password there
<andylockran> do you not want to do this?
<Danawar2> No, in windows it gives me a promt for a password and I type that in and it works =/
<andylockran> It's because it's exchange I guess - if you enter your username and password on Ubuntu, what happens?
<finelytuned> it most likely works off of cookie authentication
<finelytuned> which you'll already have on your windows machine after the first time login
<Danawar2> it doesnt ask for username and password on ubuntu
<des_> hi everybody
<des_> is anybody here?
<finelytuned> hi des
<des_> hi )
<des_> man's i'am a newbie user of ubuntu, can anybody help me to tune my kernel?
<finelytuned> Danawar2: it took me to username /pw screen
<finelytuned> des_: tune kernel?
<des_> i have a HP mini 5101 and use wi-fi
<zleap> sorry just sorting out my website cv page
<Danawar2> in nautilus
<des_> ubuntu 10, and i wanna look what module used by my wi-wi card, how can i made that? lsmod not show that propertly
<Danawar2> What is the difference between pico and nano?
<des_> maybe names? )
<des_> pico and nano same programs
<des_> pico just a symbolic link of nano
<des_> just try man pico and look as well
<des_> is somebody alive??? O_o
<finelytuned> im here but im not the person to answer your question
<finelytuned> someone will be along shortly
<finelytuned> :)
<des_> :))
<des_> wrom where are you?
<finelytuned> wrom?
<des_> ya
<des_> sorry *from
<finelytuned> ahh hatfield herts
<des_> uk?
<finelytuned> yes
<des_> -_-
<emorris> hi, is it possible to forward all ports coming into an Ubuntu box on 1 interface to a particular IP? Effectively making the Ubuntu box act as a router utilising DMZ?
<MartijnVdS> lots of things are possible with iptables
<emorris> MartijnVdS, yeah, I've used iptables a bit, but only really for opening the odd port and limiting stuff. I'll see if I can find something
<MartijnVdS> check TLDP
<MartijnVdS> it has tons of step by step guides on iptables
<MartijnVdS> the "Advanced Routing" HOWTO might contain what you're looking for
<MartijnVdS> or http://tldp.org/HOWTO/IP-Masquerade-HOWTO/
<des_> see ya mans )
<emorris> MartijnVdS, cool; thanks!
 * cassidyjames thinks the next version of Ubuntu should be Ubuntu 11.10 Oscillating Ocelot
<MartijnVdS> Odorous Okapi
<cassidyjames> That idea... wait for it.. stinks!
<cassidyjames> :P
<jacobw> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/12/03/1518213/Foodtubes-Proposes-Underground-Physical-Internet
<jacobw> that news story has made my day :)
<ipopey> Evening slackers
<finelytuned> o/
<MooDoo> ooo it's ipopey
<MooDoo> i prefer ipopey to popey, he's the naughty one :D
<MooDoo> lol
<ipopey> Heh
<andylockran> yo
<brobostigon> ircing from the pub, i bet.
<ipopey> Lounge
<MooDoo> yes probablty
<brobostigon> :)
<ipopey> Qi yay
<brobostigon> yay
<jacobw> pubs should embrace IRC
<jacobw> take pub arguments to a whole new level
<ipopey> +1
<MooDoo> yay minecraft and IRC :)
<brobostigon> jacobw: give all the customers galaxy tabs,
<jacobw> brobostigon, no, they need iPint glasses
<brobostigon> jacobw: android powered pint glasses,interesting, :)
<jacobw> hang on, no, tablets embedded in to the tables
<brobostigon> jacobw: yes, :)
<daubers> Ooooh minecraft, was just pondering what to do with my evening
 * brobostigon also watches QI
<ipopey> :)
<brobostigon> :
<brobostigon> yay
<jacobw> was it on QI?
<ipopey> It's on now
<brobostigon> jacobw: QI onnow,
<jacobw> ah good. prior art would be real pain in the arse when i come to patent this idea
<jacobw> :D
<daubers> Ooooh Tron
 * daubers waits for the pizza to arrive
<czajkowski> balor: nice Q
<martii> hi guys
<martii> do you maybe know any cheap and rather reliable VPS services that offer ubuntu?
<aaronr> martii: i'm a customer of slicehost and bitfolk. they're both great. bitfolk's the cheaper of the two, though.
<Azelphur> martii: bitfolk, or Daviey
<martii> :) thanks
<martii> anybody has experience with http://www.gbservers.co.uk/vps.html ?
<martii> as they're just 5 quid and reasonable specs
<martii> I need something cheap just to run some tests in the real world outside local LAN :)
<dogmatic69> snowing good here in birmingham
<dogmatic69> martii: i use slicehost, its like 15ish pm
<dogmatic69> 256mb ram and a load of space/bandwidth
<dogmatic69> running ubuntu10.10x64 but there are other options also
<martii> dogmatic69: I would even live with 64mb of ram and 3GBspace + 30gb bandwidth
<martii> dogmatic69: but it looks like not many people have such minimalistic needs :)
<dogmatic69> what you wanna do?
<martii> mostly it will be TCP/IP playground so not much CPU or MEM needed
<martii> dogmatic69: for ex backup openvpn gateway
<martii> dogmatic69: idealy if someone with uk based box was able to let me use theirs :) openvpn but I know this is rather non realistic
<martii> :)
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> slice is in usa
<domjohnson> I just copied my Ubuntu Studio partition over to my TB Hard Drive, then ran update-grub, but when I try and boot into my newly created partition, it boots my old Ubuntu (its possible I accidentally copied the normal Ubuntu instead, but it is still booting the same thing)
<dogmatic69> how about just doing it to local?
<domjohnson> Can anyone help?
<martii> domjohnson: are both HDD's connected?
<domjohnson> Yes
<domjohnson> I use the TB one as my Home directory
<martii> domjohnson: grub uses UUID
<domjohnson> and it show up in grub
<martii> domjohnson: that's why it stil finds your old partition
<martii> domjohnson: and boots from there
<domjohnson> ok
<domjohnson> So...how would I change this?
<domjohnson> *fix this?
<martii> domjohnson: you need to tell grub to use new partition that will likely have different ID
<martii> domjohnson: what ver of studio you're running?
<domjohnson> 10.10
<martii> dogmatic69: hmmm local?
<domjohnson> but atm I'm on normal ubuntu
<martii> domjohnson: you have separate home partition?
<dogmatic69> martii: not sure what you want to do, but sounds like some type of backup?
<martii> domjohnson: I mean did you move it too
<domjohnson> Yes, I have seperate home partition
<domjohnson> I copied the / mount point of Ubuntu Studio
<martii> domjohnson: good
<domjohnson> Actually, it could've been normal Ubuntu
<domjohnson> dogmatic69 - its so that I can use my 80GB HDD to install Mac
<domjohnson> and then I can eliminate Windows :D
<dogmatic69> domjohnson: that was for martii
<domjohnson> oh
<domjohnson> lol
<domjohnson> sorry
<martii> domjohnson: do you get any output from blkid command?
<domjohnson> No
<martii> domjohnson: sudo blkid?
<martii> domjohnson: read this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Partitioning/Home/Moving
<martii> domjohnson: will give you idea how things look like about partitions
<domjohnson> http://pastebin.com/GLtgasPw
<martii> domjohnson: so I assume sda is new drive
<martii> domjohnson: pastebin fdisk -l please
<domjohnson> http://pastebin.com/kjbjxAzz
<martii> domjohnson: ok so sda is new 1tb sdb is old 80gb
<martii> domjohnson: now you have to look at /boot/grub/grub.cfg and
<martii> replace this
<martii> 9a30b6f1-1406-4e73-98c5-eaa0cee6fa54
<martii> with that
<martii> e8c4485c-6250-4981-bdf4-0afa1eada763
<martii> if your new / partition was copied to /dev/sda1
<martii> then grub-update
<martii> sorry
<martii> update-grub
<domjohnson> Just realised - I copied both Ubuntu AND Ubuntu Studio to Tb HDD
<martii> hmm w8
<martii> update-grub will replace grub.cfg
<martii> all this mess is because of grub2 in Lucid+ ubuntus
<martii> read that
<martii> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<domjohnson> Hmm...did update-grub before I changed anything to check something - it only discovers one of the two partitions I copied over
<domjohnson> But it discovers the Ubuntu Studio one
<domjohnson> So I'm not bothered...
<Azelphur> popey: I got that backtrace...it looks like something is infinite looping
<Azelphur> popey: http://azelphur.com/crashlog.txt.zip I had to zip it, because it's about 100,000 entries long.
<martii> domjohnson: as well you may want to install grub in /dev/sda MBR
<domjohnson> ok
<domjohnson> What does bad1 mean in grub.cfg
<martii> domjohnson: disconnect old drive (after shutdown) and startup with just 1tb connected
<domjohnson> Ok
<domjohnson> Why?
<martii> domjohnson: to make sure you can start from new disc alone
<domjohnson> Ok.
<martii> domjohnson: otherwise it might be old HDD fireing up
<domjohnson> Ok.
<domjohnson> Will do that in the morning - quite tired now, might end up messing something up...wouldn't be good lol
<domjohnson> What does 'bad1' mean?
<marsilainen> 'lo
<marsilainen> is there some package I can add to get an audio equalizer?
<marsilainen> primarily for listening to music through rhythmbox
<marsilainen> I was hoping maybe there is something at pulseaudio level?
<marsilainen> I think the output from my soundcard is pretty poor
<marsilainen> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/09/download-pulseaudio-system-wide.html
<UndiFineD> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7607669/2010-12-04%2000.14.14.jpg
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-04
<dogmatic69> anyone know what protocol pop3 / imap is?
<dogmatic69> picking from :: "ip","icmp","ggp","tcp", "egp","pup","udp","hmp","xns-idp", "rdp","rvd"
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: tcp
<dogmatic69> cool, thanks
<dogmatic69> would have been my first guess as its the most common that i know of :P
<Azelphur> haha
<dogmatic69> with ip and udp a close second
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: that's a weird list though because it contains some stuff that's encapsulated by other stuff
<dogmatic69> the rest i have not even heard of :/
<Azelphur> like rdp, remote desktop protocol, is a TCP connection
<Azelphur> so it's kinda like having the same thing in the list twice :S
<dogmatic69> maybe its like a more specific type
<Azelphur> I guess :p
<dogmatic69> like you get "cars" can you get "sports cars"
<Azelphur> there are 3 major types that I know of though, TCP UDP and IMCP
<Azelphur> :)
<dogmatic69> well im sure they all branch from one main one (tcp maybe)
<dogmatic69> each with their own little annoyance just to make development easy
<Azelphur> I think UDP would be the one main, but I'm not sure
<Azelphur> havn't gone to deep into the history of it
<Azelphur> you can't use TCP for anything that requires super low latency so UDP is still heavily used
<dogmatic69> i figured out UDP because of torrents (about 5 years ago)
<Azelphur> hehe
<dogmatic69> i know about tcp/ip from like 1996/97
<Azelphur> UDP is a stateless connection, you send your data off into the ethos with no guarentee that it'll arrive in the order you sent it (or at all)
<Azelphur> it's good for games because it's faster as it doesn't do all that state tracking :p
<dogmatic69> hacking the ol' internet on netscape \o/
<Azelphur> hehe
<dogmatic69> ah, makes sense about the torrents then also
<Azelphur> where as TCP is designed to ensure all your packets arrive, and in the order they are sent
<Azelphur> but all that checking obviously adds overhead
<dogmatic69> ye
 * Azelphur spent a lot of time reverse engineering protocols with wireshark for fun \o/
<dogmatic69> even more sense for torrents, being downloades kb's at a time from all over
<dogmatic69> lol
<Azelphur> hehe indeed
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: I wrote an addon for mIRC (a Windows IRC client) to make it connect to MSN for example :p
<dogmatic69> im re-writing php's imap functions
<Azelphur> why? o.O
<dogmatic69> i know mirc... those were the good old days of dial-up and irc
<Azelphur> hehe that's the one
<Azelphur> I was 6 years old when I started on dialup and mIRC :D
<dogmatic69> 1) its fing ugly, 2) its an extension, not available to hosts which does not suite my end user os php app im building
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> i was like 12ish
<Azelphur> hehe
<dogmatic69> when i was 6 the internet was a classified CIA something or another
<Azelphur> I'm a glutton for control with my server stuff
<Azelphur> started out with a VPS, got a big dedi now too
<dogmatic69> i was a pro on dos 5.x though ;)
<dogmatic69> i just got a little slice
<Azelphur> hehe
<dogmatic69> only moved to ubuntu 3 moths ago, so was never 'able' to work linux
<Azelphur> ah, I been over this way for 3 years :D
<dogmatic69> was under the impression you needed to be a rocket scientist
<Azelphur> I was such a noob when I switched :)
<Azelphur> haha, 3 years ago you almost did
<dogmatic69> in hind site, sudo apt-get install anything is easier
<Azelphur> I started off on ubuntu 7.10 before they had jockey and such
<Azelphur> and I'd never touched Linux before in my life
<Azelphur> actually should start earlier because this is a hilarious story :p
<Azelphur> I saw this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYgV2GlsufI
<dogmatic69> i installed 9.04 for the first time using linux... was not happy when i had to write 2 pages of code to use 2 monitors :/
<Azelphur> and decided that I really wanted that, so I did the most awesome thing ever
<Azelphur> I went to ##linux and asked what distro I should use as a beginner
<Azelphur> <epic flame war insues>
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> as it would
<Azelphur> got heckled around pretty much every distro, Debian, Fedora, neither of them would start X at the time
<Azelphur> and in the end someone pointed me at Ubuntu :P
<Azelphur> which was the only distro I managed to get to start X, so I stuck with that
<Azelphur> kept on following different guides on how to get my graphics drivers to work with dual screen and compiz, I was on ATI too back before the open source drivers where in full swing
<Azelphur> so it was ATI+fglrx+dual screen which was the most difficult combo back in those days :p
<Azelphur> I'd follow a guide, and when it didn't work I'd reload fresh to make sure I had a clean attempt at the next guide
<Azelphur> by reload fresh, I mean a complete reinstall of Ubuntu :p
<Azelphur> ~70 reloads later...success :D, I'd finally got wine, compiz, fglrx, and dual screen working
<Azelphur> so I left it downloading my game via steam to try it out
<Azelphur> woke up the next morning, power supply blew while I was asleep :(
<Azelphur> ^ sods law in action right there xD
<dogmatic69> damn
<dogmatic69> that sucks
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: the funnier part is my brother built that PC and it was on it's third power supply
<Azelphur> so I decided to hell with it and build a new PC, with nvidia cards for ease of use \o/
<dogmatic69> o.o
<Azelphur> I decided I was gonna put vista on it, because I needed a 64bit OS for my 4GB RAM, and XP 64bit was rather old and on the verge of being neglected, I figured it was Vista or nothing
<Azelphur> so installed Vista 64, let it do it's update, let it reboot as requested, machine never booted again (blue screen of death)
<Azelphur> after 3 reinstalls I came to the conclusion that this was indeed a glaringly obvious terrible oversight, and decided wow...to hell with this and went back to plugging away at Ubuntu xD
<Azelphur> and that's how I ended up the crazy Linux gamer xD
<Azelphur> every time I go near a windows machine now it does something so insanely irritating that I maintain that taking a performance hit and not having some games work is better than that god-awful os :p
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> i was a user of vista for many years
<dogmatic69> since the first cracked RC came out :P
<dogmatic69> then they fixed the crack, and could never find one that works so i paid 200 bucks for a proper one :/
<Azelphur> haha :p
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: so you are a ace with this protocol stuff?
<Azelphur> a bit yea
<dogmatic69> maybe you could give me a bit more info on this issue, like low level problems it could be or something
<dogmatic69> when im reading from a stream created in php, things work pretty good if i set the size correctly or below the size of the data coming
<dogmatic69> if i have it to high i get a 504 gateway error
<dogmatic69> seems like its just "receiving" nothing, hoping that oneday the rest of the data would come
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: not sure, never done much in PHP
<neptune> does anyone know how ubuntu schedules threads on a multi-core processor?
<daubers> 6~4Morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> Things to do today: Go to wedding
<daubers> Hows things czajkowski?
<czajkowski> grand thanks
<czajkowski> we were meant to go to a mates wedding party today
<czajkowski> but she had to call it off as all our mates are stuck in ireland
<daubers> Oof
<daubers> Supposed to start cheering up now
<daubers> (weather wise)
<kaushal> is it better to go with btrfs or ext4 in 10.10
<daubers> ext4
<daubers> btrfs still has issues
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> daubers: also what would be the ideal partitioning schemes
<nigelb> daubers: your wedding? ;)
<kaushal> is it /boot first /home second / third swap fourth ?
<nigelb> czajkowski: Aloha!
<kaushal> are there help docs or wiki ?
<daubers> nigelb: bope, a gfriends
<nigelb> aha
<nigelb> should be fun
<daubers> kaushal: Thats more preference than anything else. Stuff at the start of the disk will be slightly faster (but not noticeably so)
<kaushal> daubers: are there docs or wiki ?
<daubers> kaushal: no idea, sorry. I tend to stick to the defaults
<popey> bah
 * popey pokes kaushal in the eye with a stick
<popey> I just typed a reply to your mail, then came here and realised your question has been answered here
<popey> asking in lots of places at once is quite a waste of peoples time
<dwatkins> Hiya!
<popey> lo
<dwatkins> I shall try the latest netbook edition on my Eee later today, I hope sound works.
<bigcalm[mobile]> Hi kids
<dwatkins> It didn't work on Jolicloud, until I sleep the OS, which is just plain wierd..
<dwatkins> hey bigcalm[mobile]
<popey> \o/ Jabber
<dwatkins> Jabber, popey?
<bigcalm[mobile]> He wont take no jibber jabber
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<marsilainen> 'lo
<dwatkins> We use Jabber at work, which is ace.
<marsilainen> if I set rules using 'ufw', do those take effect on all network interfaces?
<marsilainen> if I wish to have different rules on different interfaces, then do I need to use iptables directly?
<AndChat|> Bloody sky wifi
<AndChat|> Ackroyd, wrong Nick
<AndChat|> And auto correct fail
 * dwatkins wonders if 40GB per month is enough
<bigcalm[mob]> Porn?
<dwatkins> No, bigcalm[mob] - my other half watches a fair amount of TV online, thoough.
<bigcalm[mob]> ;)
<directhex> um, i can eat 40gb in one day
<daubers> la la la la la
<MartijnVdS> daubers: how are things in la la land? 8-)
<daubers> Hmmm... stupid electric heaters eating 4kW :(
<directhex> run steam. install GTA4 (15.6 gig), Aliens vs Predator (15.4 gig), and LOTRO (over 10 gig)
<directhex> and bam
<daubers> You're broke for the month?
<directhex> lotro is free, i paid a fiver for gta4, and six quid for avp
<daubers> Fair enough
 * daubers goes to start the car and get his suit out
<dwatkins> wierd, Karmic dropped vol_id thus breaking unetbootin. Anyone know of a workaround for this?
 * daubers needs a decent python graphing library
<nperry> morning o/
<dwatkins> ahoy nperry
<nperry> another day in work...
 * marsilainen ponders how to remove thick ice from some steps with no appropriate implements
<daubers> marsilainen: Kettle + water
<marsilainen> daubers: good idea
<nperry> marsilainen: piss on it.
<marsilainen> my house mate just slipped on them and sliced his hand open on some metal railings next to them
<daubers> marsilainen: And some table salt to stop it freezing again (put that on the ice after pouring the water on)
<marsilainen> he's on his way to hospital now :/
<dwatkins> ouch, marsilainen
<nperry> ice is not fun :/
<dwatkins> I cleared ice with my boots from some steps, be careful if you use the kettle that you don't end up with a thin layer of ice afterwwards
<dwatkins> indeed, nperry - I broke my ankle slipping on ice once
 * dwatkins uses the sourceforge version of unetbootin
 * dwatkins notes that no-one replied from Jolicloud
<dwatkins> Shame, their desktop works well on my tiny Eee screen
<daubers> dwatkins: Thats why I go kettle + salt :)
<daubers> also, car gone \o/
<suprengr> I find the best solution to ice is putting it in a large whiskey ;)
<daubers> suprengr: Criminal!
<suprengr> daubers: point taken :D
<dwatkins> daubers: not your car, I assume
<daubers> dwatkins: It was, just managed to sell it (at last)
<dwatkins> woohoo, daubers :)
<daubers> Need to make a run t the post office shortly send off the bit of the whatsit to the dvla
<dwatkins> in this weather, that's even more impressive, daubers
<danfish> morning
 * danfish at my wits end. Haven't been able to fly home for 4 days due to weather in UK, and now the sodding Spanish air traffic controllers have gone on strike meaning no flights :(:(:( 
<danfish> aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!
<daubers> danfish: Go lay in the pool
<KrimZon> i fixed the problem with cron
<KrimZon> i gave ownership of the script to root, and it works
<KrimZon> i've no clue why having the backup drive mounted at the time caused it to require that though
<danfish> daubers: if only - it's only 12deg c in the pool. I'll turn blue!
<daubers> Warmer than outside here :)
<danfish> I know I shouldn't complain, but I'm now a tad bored, miss the kids and really need to be at work on Monday
<brobostigon> morning all.
<jacobw> good morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
 * dutchie has to tidy his desk :(
<jacobw> can you still get a dell mini 9 w/ ubuntu?
<cridlandr> Hello
<cridlandr> I'm trying to install Maverick for Sparc
<cridlandr> Here is the Ubuntu URL  :  https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/installation-guide/sparc/downloading-files.html#where-files
<cridlandr> The link on this page : http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/main/installer-sparc/current/images
<cridlandr> Is broken! :(
<cridlandr> Where do I find the Sparc image?
<cridlandr> Thanks
<popey> cridlandr: we don't do sparc images anymore
<cridlandr> :(
<cridlandr> It says you do here : https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/installation-guide/sparc/downloading-files.html#where-files
<popey> no it doesnt
<cridlandr> Guess I'll be going to OpenSolaris then.... that's not being "done" anymore either! LOL!
<popey> debian?
<brobostigon> cridlandr: have you had a look at debian.
<popey> http://www.debian.org/ports/sparc/
<cridlandr> Yes, that was the other possibility
<cridlandr> I just love this old hardware stuff!   Thanks all
 * dwatkins finally gets Ubuntu Netbook Remix to boot
<dwatkins> silly unetbootin
<nperry> Bit of slipknot at work, never hurt anybody
<dwatkins> That reminds me, I need some speakers at work.
<jacobw> how do you rebuff criticism of getting people to use ubuntu?
<jacobw> people start to think that all their computer problems are automatically your fault people you've gotten them using ubuntu
<dwatkins> criticism of ubuntu, or criticism of computers in general, jacobw?
 * dwatkins boots ubuntu netbook remix and finds the mouse doesn't work
<jacobw> the only reason i do it really is because i really don't want to support people using windows
<brobostigon> jacobw: you have to differentiate to said person where the issue lies, hw, etc.
<brobostigon> like if the issue is with flash, it isnt ubuntu's messing up, it is adobe's,
<jacobw> criticism of ubuntu, i.e. they can't use iTunes, presentations created in Impress don't work properly with PowerPoint
<jacobw> i've tried that brobostigon, the belief seems to be seen as majority of people use Windows and don't have the same issues, then the majority must be right
<brobostigon> jacobw: cant use  itunes, nothing to do with ubuntu, ask apple to make a port.
<jacobw> ordinary people don't understand that though :(
<jacobw> i suppose to only thing to do is to carry on regardless
<jacobw> unfortunately, most people don't understand the aims of software freedom etc.
<brobostigon> jacobw: i work with mind here in banbury, and have ubuntu and debian ontheir netbooks, perfect really. and no realcomplaints yet, on praise that the function is better and smoother and quicker thanwith windows.
<jacobw> you've hit the nail on the head there though, they ALL have ubuntu on their netbooks
<brobostigon> jacobw: and this is people  with mental and physical health difficulties.
<jacobw> i'm reassured by that :) if you can get it to work in those situations, i'm sure i can get it to work in my situation
<brobostigon> i spent 6 months and abit, testing this out with them first, even one girl loves using dasher,
<brobostigon> dasher has saved us a few times, with people who need to type, but cant use a keyboard.
<jacobw> the thing is when people start going on, you start thinking, "well, maybe i am doing something wrong in forcing my IT preferences on other people"
<brobostigon> jacobw: this is only banbury mind, so it isnt many, it is only a few machines, but it has tool alot of time  and effort to get it right, because of where and the people that are using them.
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> this is another thing, i have limited skills with ubuntu to help people out, i should put more effort in to it
<brobostigon> i dont force anything, i just say to them, i will show you what is possible, nd you canmake youre own choice.
<jacobw> brobostigon, that isn't really possible with relatives though
<brobostigon> jacobw: it is, i showed my mum ubuntu and she compared it to my dads work machine with xp, guess what, she has been using ubuntu for a few  years now, without any major problems.
<brobostigon> #mumbuntu
<jacobw> well, in the short term, i need to place an old dell lattitude with a modern laptop
<jacobw> i.e. with a webcam/microphone so the user can use skype
<brobostigon> sounds fairly simple.
<brobostigon> check the webcam with the HW database.
<jacobw> it *should* be, but i can't find a list of ubuntu compatible laptop systems
<jacobw> there seems to be dozens of different lists on the wiki, most of them out of date
<brobostigon> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound
<brobostigon> that isnt it,
<brobostigon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop
<brobostigon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop/Reports
<dwatkins> *sigh* my Eee 901 doesn't seem to want to make the mouse work on netbook remix
<dwatkins> oh, I lied :D it's ok now I rebooted, just took a minute :D
<dwatkins> now for the bit test - wifi and sound...
<dwatkins> *big
<jacobw> i can't believe i can't go in to a shop and buy a laptop with ubuntu in this day and age :(
<jacobw> ridiculous
<brobostigon> jacobw: you can get a blank mchine i do believe, and install yourself.
<jacobw> where from brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> http://nakedcomputers.org/
<dwatkins> overclockers and ebuyer do barebones machines, too
<dwatkins> ah I see, nakedcomputers is just a list
<brobostigon> dwatkins: oh where you can buy from.
<brobostigon> of*
<dwatkins> indeed, brobostigon - looks quite handy
<dwatkins> I'd like to see more such places selling bare-bones machines
<jacobw> it seems to buying a laptop to install linux is still as difficult as it always was
<jacobw> dell seem to have given up seen as they don't even ship the last LTS, they ship 9.10
<dwatkins> jacobw: how about an ASUS Eee 1005-series?
<dwatkins> They appear to be well supported by Ubuntu (and OS X)
<jacobw> i think i've found a good bet, http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/Lenovo_G550_1006557.html
<dwatkins> Is it properly supported by Ubuntu, jacobw?
<jacobw> as far as i can tell..
<jacobw> it isn't easy to tell, seen as finding what wireless chipset a particular laptop uses isn't always possible
<popey> 12:45:12 < jacobw> dell seem to have given up seen as they don't even ship the last LTS, they ship 9.10
<popey> depends on the machine
<jacobw> i was looking at the inspiron laptop
<gord> generally what happens is that dell release a machine with a certain release of ubuntu, that release is customised to fit them and has to be setup in their factories, its not a simple thing to just change everything to the latest lts
<gord> it involves lots of testing and factory stuff, is it really worth it for them?
<jacobw> well, they do it for the Windows LTS releases, so if they were really going to support Ubuntu on their machines, they'd do it for Ubuntu too
<gord> well no, thats not how the world works now is it
<gord> its not a case of all or nothing
<jacobw> i know, it just shows in my opinion that their commitment is limited
<oly> although they may not be selling laptops with ubuntu i have to say i was exceptionally pleased with how well the 17 studio laptop works with ubuntu
<oly> best supported laptop under ubuntu i have ever owned, everything just worked including custom function keys and duel audio outputs monitor switching etc
<jacobw> oly, i've got one as well, it does work very well :)
<jacobw> i've got the 1737 model
<oly> all the bits that usually dont work, so i get the feeling they may be testing or something even if there not fully supporting it
<gord> well, with the big popular laptops, lots of people just buying them, are testing them. so bugs get files, kernel modules get written, all that fun stuff
<oly> not sure on the model i have all i know is its a dell studio 17 inch :p
<oly> yeah but even with testing i find machine work but the little features dont work like multimedia keys or the function keys on laptops when used with fn
<oly> but perhaps thats just bad luck on my part :p
<oly> just never had a laptop where every little feature just works
<oly> i am curious weather thats anything todo with dell though perhaps they test the hardware even if they dont ship the os
<gord> well you can expect that their lines use the same way of doing function keys and other little features, so if just one of those laptops gets an ubuntu tested release you can expect they will all work
<oly> still hope that we will see of the shelf setups supported a lot better though
<oly> always nice to have some garentee the machine will work correctly with out hacking it :)
<gord> i just randomly order hardware and laptops, always works out well for me!
<marsilainen> what rule do I need to add to iptables to allow pings to work?
<marsilainen> it's ok, got it now http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-iptables-9-allow-icmp-ping.html
<danfish> can anyone recommend a SOHO Voip provider?
<marsilainen> I think gradwell is quite popular for that isn't it?
<marsilainen> not used myself
 * marsilainen reboots a remote machine - hoping he hasn't locked himself out with iptables
<marsilainen> phew
<marsilainen> does running iptables slow down a port scan?
<marsilainen> before iptables was running, a port scan would find the low open ports very quickly
<marsilainen> but now it seems to take much longer
<marsilainen> is that because the port scanner is waiting for a response each time and eventually timing out or something now that iptables is running?
<penguin42> marsilainen: Probably depends how dumb the portscanner is, but probably yes
<Laney> if you have your default policy set to DROP then likely yes
<marsilainen> penguin42, Laney: thanks
<marsilainen> I guess it's a good thing in any case
<marsilainen> if it takes people a long time to port-scan me, then all the better
 * dutchie survived \o/
<marsilainen> if I buy an SSL cert, then it is just tied to the domain name right?
<marsilainen> if I change the IP address for that domain at some point later, the cert keeps working right?
<penguin42> yes
<lazarus_> having issues with arch
<popey> lazarus_: arch?
<brobostigon> arch linux, i would presume.
<brobostigon> the distro..
<lazarus_> brobostigon: yes
<popey> thats why i asked
<popey> lazarus_: ah well :)
<brobostigon> lazarus_: its a rolling release isnt it, like debian sid.
<popey> there is apparently an #archlinux support channel
<lazarus_> popey: for some reason i cant talk in there
<popey> your nick probably needs to be registered
<popey> and you need to be identified to services
<popey> !register
<lubotu3> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<lazarus_> freenode server you only need to register once right
<popey> yes
<lazarus_> in that case i am
<brobostigon> are you identified with nickserv ?
<lazarus_> how does on check?
<lazarus_> one*
<popey> you arent
<popey>  /whois lazarus_
<popey> that shows you're not
<popey> the page i linked to tells you how to identify
<lazarus_> hmm
<popey>  /msg nickserv identify <password>
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> I am on Ubuntu 10.10 :)
<kaushal> Ubuntu 10.10 rocks
<kaushal> Google desktop dont work :/
<kaushal> I mean the short cut key CTRl-CTRL
<lazarus_> popey: thanks that fixed it
<popey> np lazarus_
<kaushal> any idea ?
<kaushal> I heard its broken in 10.04
<kaushal> but still broken in 10.10 :/
<lazarus_> arch liinux is a ***** at times
<kaushal> where do i seek help for it ?
<popey> lazarus_: the distro or the channel?
<popey> kaushal: http://desktop.google.com/support/?hl=en
<lazarus_> popey:  both
<popey> heh
<popey> you're not telling me anything I didn't already know I'm afraid
<jacobw> i remember #debian used to be really unhelpful :(
<lazarus_> hehe
<lazarus_> oh wow i basically got told if i dont know what im doing then im on the wrong distro
 * brobostigon returned
<KrimZon> does anyone know a text editor that has a keyboard shortcut to toggle word-wrap?
<ali1234> vi or emacs
<KrimZon> what is it in vi?
<ali1234> i dunno
<brobostigon> lazarus_: a rolling release, like debian sid, can very easily break,so i wouldnt give it to someone, who didnt know how to fix it, if something did break.
<popey> lazarus_: thats true to be fair
<lazarus_> brobostigon: all i said to them was they asked me to find logs to which i replied im not sure where logs are kept because ive never had to view them
<popey> lazarus_: it's designed for expert users
<popey> also, why on earth would you want to run arch :)
<brobostigon> lazarus_: to tell you, /var/log,
<dutchie> KrimZon: by default, Q is mapped to gq, which is the "format" operator
<lazarus_> thankyou now i know
<brobostigon> lazarus_: yes, they were alittle abrupt i must abmit.
<ali1234> popey: because people who run arch constantly go around telling people how great and easy to use arch is
<dutchie> KrimZon: J joins lines together, dunno if there is a way to do them all in one go
<popey> ali1234: that too
<ali1234> gentoo users do the same thing
<ali1234> if you go in a generic linux forum and say you use ubuntu you will get hundreds of "hurr.... gentoo is bettar" comments
<lazarus_> popey: im looking for somthing a lil diff to ubuntu
<popey> lazarus_: diff in what way?
<jacobw> gentoo is a waste of human endeavour
<dutchie> and cpu endeavour
<popey> i know a few who like gentoo, and if they like it and it works for them, thats great
<lazarus_> i find ubuntu to be to much of point click job done nowdays
<brobostigon> lazarus_: have you tried debian for example ?
<popey> lazarus_: you'd rather run out in the snow naked and beat yourself with birch twigs?
<ali1234> jacobw: not no mention electricity
<dutchie> hmm, my windows partition has 32M left
<brobostigon> brb,
<ali1234> clearly this is the reasoning behind unity as default UI
<ali1234> ubuntu is becoming too easy to use so someone decided to make it a little bit harder to set up
<lazarus_> and i dont like unity
<lazarus_> hehe
<jacobw> i like unity :)
<ali1234> now all those gentoo fanbois have some obscure command line to type in after installation, they are sure to switch to ubuntu in droves :)
<lazarus_> brobostigon: whats the diff between debain and ubuntu because ubuntu is based on it
<popey> !debian
<lubotu3> Ubuntu and Debian are closely related. Ubuntu builds on the foundations of Debian architecture and infrastructure, with a different community and release process. See https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/i386/what-is-debian.html - Remember, !repositories meant for Debian should NOT be used on Ubuntu!
<brobostigon> thank you, was just going to bringthat up popey .
<jacobw> debian is the rock that ubuntu is built on
<lazarus_> so the only thing of major is the release process??
<jacobw> no
 * brobostigon goes away to bang his head on a hard surface for abit.
<lazarus_> i know im being a noob i sowwie
<brobostigon> lazarus_: i am just stressed nd getting stress here at home.
<dutchie> i think i need some sort of cd-r labelling system
<ali1234> have you tried using a pen?
<dutchie> i have 10 here which i have no idea what is on them
<lazarus_> bugger it i might try pc linuxos
<lazarus_> haha
<dutchie> and the very first i pull out is a gparted one \o/
<dutchie> hmm, it is version 3.9
<dutchie> and the current version is 0.7.0
<dutchie> (the first one should have been 0.3.9)
<dutchie> ah well, it should still work
<KrimZon> damnit, why do none of the gui editors have a keyboard shortcut to toggle word wrap
<KrimZon> if i'm programming or looking at config files i want non-wrapped stuff, but if i'm writing notes i want it to auto wrap
<KrimZon> and there's usually no way to tell the file types apart
<ali1234> sure there is
<ali1234> programming languages always use a specific filename extension
<KrimZon> well, no way to get the editors to detect this
<ali1234> besides, you should not be going past 80 characters anyway, so word wrap will not apply
<KrimZon> depends on the coding style guide
<ali1234> (or lack of)
<KrimZon> most coding is in an ide, but i still do php and other random scripting languages in ordinary text editors
<ali1234> so what?
<KrimZon> so i'd quite like to finally find a decent text editor
<ali1234> gedit has everything you need
<KrimZon> does it have a keyboard shortcut to toggle word wrap?
<ali1234> no but it has a right margin marker, so you will know to stop writing on the current line
<KrimZon> that's all fine and good until i want the window smaller than 80 characters and my notes to still be readable
<ali1234> why don't you just turn on word wrapping and leave it on always?
<KrimZon> because when I code in it the code will wrap
<ali1234> then your code is incorrectly formatted to begin with
<KrimZon> no it's not
<KrimZon> the window may be narrower than the style's margin in order to view it side by side with something else
<ali1234> how can you "view" it if half the lines are off the left side of the screen?
<KrimZon> usually it's only a few lines that go particularly wide
<ali1234> and why is it such a problem if these lines are wrapped?
<KrimZon> they change the vertical spacing of the code
<ali1234> why don't you just use diff?
<KrimZon> cause i'm not comparing
<suprengr> krimzon: use a smaller font?
<KrimZon> that would hurt my eyes eventually
<suprengr> hmmm... glasses?
<suprengr> ;)
<KrimZon> i have glasses, probably from having the font too small to begin with
<suprengr> :D
<KrimZon> probably from before i started using linux with its actually nice font rendering
 * Azelphur prepares for hate
<Azelphur> I'm doing 8px on 1920x1200
<suprengr> seriously though...  [from 1 specs wearer to another] i just got myself a larger screen and set resoloution to a comfortable level
<KrimZon> i'm feeling the very beginning of a headache just thinking about that
<KrimZon> hmm
<suprengr> booyah!
<KrimZon> i'm gonna write my own text editor
<suprengr> admirable
<KrimZon> then the linux community gets another text editor out of it
<KrimZon> ktute - krimzon's totally useless text editor
<marsilainen> what is the correct way to edit the system motd message?
<marsilainen> if I edit /etc/motd it just seems to get overwritten again when someone logs in
<KrimZon> or... maybe what I want is a general note-writing tool, and an editor configured for php/xml/js/css and some other stuff
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> evening czajkowski
<KrimZon> for some reason gnome is not remembering file type associations
<suprengr> so being my 1st weekend off in yonks i fancied some fun... been trying to get terminal to do 'cowsay' + motd on start... failed miserably
<popey> :)
<suprengr> [any ideas?]
<jacobw> is that a weekend of fun?!
<suprengr> well... it IS cold out there... and need to be in front of screen for sis [who hopefully is now installing Ubuntu]
<suprengr> ...that's MY excuse and I'm sticking to it ;)
<jacobw> uh huh :)
<jacobw> i'm 99% sure it can be done
<jacobw> can't be done even
<suprengr> ...I am currently more than ready to believe that
 * suprengr sighs
<gord> erm
<DanielRM> The nice thing about Facebook is that no-one ever forgets your birthday. :-/
<DanielRM> Evening all, BTW.
<gord> why don't you just replace motd with the output of cowsay < /etc/motd ?
<czajkowski> ello gord
<gord> hellos
<DanielRM> gord: allo.
<suprengr> gord: /etc/motd = no such fod
<suprengr> [file or directory]
<gord> suprengr, then you have a non standard system
<gord> ubuntu has a default motd that gets updated with package information and such
<suprengr> not surprised... I'm not even from this planet!
<suprengr> ...checked in packages & only motd thaat appears is motd-update
<suprengr> [not installed]
<exobuzz> /etc/motd should be a symlink to /var/run/motd
<exobuzz> at least with a standard install..
<suprengr> I honestly thought this was a standard install up till now and have no other reason to think otherwise
<exobuzz> /var/run/motd is automatically generated. i guess you can make your own motd anyway if you like but you can also drop scripts in /etc/update-motd.d
<exobuzz> which will be used to create the /var/run/motd
<exobuzz> in my case i added a 60-showdisktemps script so the output when i login is like http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/motd
<exobuzz> sorry if all this is already known/obvious :)
<penguin42> exobuzz: Is that just hdparm something?
<exobuzz> its a little script i made. one sec i can post it
<suprengr> just re-checked - no /etc/motd, no /var/run/motd
<penguin42> no /etc/motd?!
<suprengr> time to install motd-update ?
<exobuzz> pam_motd handles this in libpam-modules in latest ubuntu. in earlier ones it was handled by package update-motd
<gord> sweet, found the menu to my local chinese place. looks like i'm not gonna starve after all
<suprengr> concur, that's what synaptic said
<exobuzz> penguin42, http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/disktemps takes a param of "show, check or both". check is something that i run every 10 mins, and if a disk reaches  set temp, i get an email and machine is shutdown for safety
<exobuzz> in case of fan failure..
<exobuzz> show will just output the temps of all disks in the system
<suprengr> hang on motd IS found is found in /etc "link broken" !!!
<exobuzz> suprengr, which version of ubuntu ?
<suprengr> 10.04
<jacobw> i'm disappointed that lubotu doesn't do cowsay
<exobuzz> do you have update-motd installed ?
<exobuzz> i think 10.04 still uses that..
<suprengr> update-motd not installed
<exobuzz> thats the problem then
<exobuzz> install that :)
<suprengr> yep.. that's what I was beginning to think
<exobuzz> or check the description for it .. maek sure it doesnt say "The functionality formerly provided by this package is now integrated into pam_motd, in libpam-modules."
<exobuzz> at some point. maverick or possibly before. this was deprecated for doing the stuff as a pam module
 * suprengr goes off to sudo apt-get etc
<exobuzz> if it doesnt say that, then you need it :)
<suprengr> the description does asay that
<exobuzz> aah. then. you dont want it hmm
<exobuzz> and you have libpam-modules i guess installed.
<suprengr> no probs... I applied the brakes in time
<exobuzz> check you have /lib/security/pam_motd.so
<exobuzz> when you login the /var/run/motd should be generated
<suprengr> pam_motd.so is there
<exobuzz> the module should be referenced in /etc/pam.d/login and /etc/pam.d/sshd also
<suprengr> session optional in pam.d/login... pam.d/sshd does not exist!
<wintellect> right - biting the bullet and daring to upgrade 8.04 - 10.04.01
<exobuzz> sshd is for remote ssh access. if you dont use that you wont have it
<suprengr> that's what I was hoping you'd say ;)
<suprengr> so why no motd??? me confused
<exobuzz> if you sudo -s, then run run-parts --lsbsysinit /etc/update-motd.d > /var/run/motd
<exobuzz> should generate it. but this should happen automatically when you login
<jussi> suprengr: bbc have reruns of motd somewhere, Im sure you could get one :P :P
<suprengr> exobuzz: bash: /var/run/motd: Permission denied
<suprengr> jussi ?
<exobuzz> sudo bash -c "run-parts --lsbsysinit /etc/update-motd.d > /var/run/motd"
<exobuzz> needs to be done as root . the pipe is tricky from sudo
<exobuzz> that should work though
<jussi> suprengr: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/match_of_the_day/default.stm
<jussi> :P
<exobuzz> match of the day joke :)
<suprengr> exobuzz: something happened...
<suprengr> jussi: cool - will have a look [in a mo]
<exobuzz> suprengr, well. you probabyl have a motd now. but i havnt solved the problem of it not being automatically created..
<suprengr> exobuzz: yeh but you got me further than I was getting lol
<suprengr> jussi: good sense of humour ;D
<zleap> Hello
<suprengr> exobuzz: time to restart & see methinks
<suprengr> ...& thanks a mil
<exobuzz> np.
<Venko> Anyone here savy with SVN or general version control and happy to help me with it a bit? I'm confused as to what to do
<dutchie> hrm
<dutchie> that could have gone better
<exobuzz> Venko, can try :)
<exobuzz> dutchie, what's that ?
<Venko> I've been experimenting with some ideas and created various files of code in /trunk and and would now like to work on a proper prototype with what I've discovered/decided. So what do I do now? I shouldn't go erasing everything in trunk
<dutchie> decided that i needed more space on my vista partition, so rebooted into a gparted live cd to shuffle around the partitions
<dutchie> now nothing boots :(
<exobuzz> well. if you have just been testing, you probably want to make a new repository. so long as there isnt any important history
<exobuzz> Venko, or you mean you have a history and you did some new code and committed in trunk ?
<exobuzz> or its uncommitted ?
<Venko> Am I meant to somehow move trunk's contents to a directory in branches and call it /old or something?
<exobuzz> normally for test stuff i would work on a branch.
<Venko> I don't have another repository. I'm doing my university project (third year)
<exobuzz> you are using svn btw or git ?
<Venko> I've been loving being able to undo/redo things and compare with SVN so far but no idea what to do here
<Venko> exobuzz: SVN
<exobuzz> in svn. a branch is just a copy. even a tag is a copy only that you dont change stuff. so, you can always copy trunk to a branch and then do more stuff on it. and merge back and forth
<exobuzz> it sounds like you might benefit from reading some svn concept stuff
<exobuzz> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/ is pretty decent
<Venko> Well ultimately all I want is to be able to grab and look at the old experimentation stuff when I'm building this prototype
<exobuzz> copy the experimentation stuff to a branch, and perhaps roll the trunk back if you have stuff committed you dont want
<exobuzz> to roll back you do a reverse merge with svn.
<Venko> It looks like tag might be what I want actually
<Venko> I could just move it to /tags and call it 'pre-prototype1' or something
<exobuzz> a tag should be a static thing like a bookmark. so if you just want to bookmark how something was. that would work fine. a tag can be thought of as a name for a specific revision
<exobuzz> you can always check out any revision number from an svn source tree of course.
<exobuzz> conceptually. although tags and branches are both copies in svn, a tag is something you dont change, and a branch is something you work on/commit to
<Venko> Yeah, I think that tag is exactly what I'm after
<Venko> Does it keep the revision history in tags?
<Venko> I'm probably going to delete half of the files completely in branch after
<Laney> x factor \m/ >_< \m/
<exobuzz> you have the history yeh. ideally it sounds like what you should have done was to create a branch earlier before you did the experimental stuff, and then kept it on its own branch
<exobuzz> so you dont have to undo a bunch of stuff on trunk
<Azelphur> haha, just took down a phishing website :)
<Venko> Yeah, I didn't understand what was what at the start and saw the name trunk so it seemed like the place to put everything
<Venko> SVN has been really useful so far anyway :)
<exobuzz> dutchie, sorry missed your message. oops. :/ boot loader related or hosed partitions ?
<Azelphur> one of my friends slipped up and didn't notice the URL bar and got suckered by it, so I just ran some python from home, my VPS and my dedi using urllib that posted thousands of fake account details to it :D
<exobuzz> Venko, good to use source control for sure. i couldnt live without it
<Azelphur> It went 404 after I got about 10k records in >:)
<exobuzz> Azelphur, what if they turn a botnet to attack your ip now ? :)
<Azelphur> *shrug* VPS is for giggles now as I have the dedi, dedi has hardware DDoS protection and my home IP is easily changable (I have a block of 8)
<exobuzz> aah ok.. anyway. nice.. you only got another million to do .. ;-)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I do it every time I come across one, would be cool to have a botnet for this tbh then even logging IP addresses wouldn't help
<Azelphur> would be so cool to just take them all out with thousands of fake accounts
<exobuzz> i got a call earlier from an indian trying to get me to install some remote control software on my pc, so they could infect it or charge me for something.. i told em it doesnt work. and we went though hardware etc. i told em i have a commodore 64. and they were trying to get information about it
<Azelphur> exobuzz: LOL
<ali1234> they told me my computer would "go for a toss" if i didn't install their thing
<exobuzz> hehe
<exobuzz> ive had a few of these calls. one of em got cross with me for wasting his time. i just laughed. although its quite a serious matter really.. i mean i have no idea what they would have done had they gotten access to a pc.
<exobuzz> and im pretty sure some people must be duped by them
<ali1234> they don't actually want access
<Azelphur> exobuzz: It'd be funny to let them take over a walled VM and then use it to mess with them :D
<exobuzz> the problem with computers. is that they dont boot up with a READY> prompt and force you to read the manual
<Azelphur> oh yea, they want money :P
<ali1234> if you let them on, they say "oh we can fix it for $50"
<penguin42> exobuzz: Wow, hadn't actually heard about any of those - it's an interesting alternative to infected web pages etc
<exobuzz> Azelphur, yeh good idea!
<ali1234> then they ask for CC number
<penguin42> exobuzz: If they're doing it by phone I expect that we'll see posted stuff at some point imitating a bank etc
<exobuzz> i thought the person calling me earlier might have been quite young.. sounded young anyway. hope i wasnt too mean and upset them. im sure they just need the money and dont understand what they are doing is wrong.. or not.
<Darael> My response tends to be less witty.  "I'm not even running Windows, so I know you aren't from Microsoft (which is what they usually claim).  So who are you really?".  They do tend to hang up quite fast.
 * penguin42 wonders if you could trick them into going to a site to track them
<penguin42> e.g. something like 'well I tried to do what you said but I got this error, here look at this....'
<exobuzz> heh
<Darael> Not a bad idea, actually.
<exobuzz> probably would work
<dutchie> :(
<dutchie> stupid broken boot
<KrimZon> i had one of those type of calls and they wanted me to install teamviewer
<penguin42> dutchie: What's it done to you?
<dutchie> resized partitions and now it panics on boot
<penguin42> oh dear
<penguin42> what's the panic - is it just a can't mount root filesystem one?
<dutchie> yeah
<dutchie> the partition mounts ok in a live session
<dutchie> can uuids change if i resize?
<dutchie> didn't think so
<dutchie> but i suppose it would exlpain it
<dutchie> ah, no it hasn't
<AlanBell> evening
 * AlanBell is having curry in farnham
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell
<penguin42> and talking to us?
 * AlanBell  is a bit drunk for jalf past ight
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon gets AlanBell a glass of water
 * AlanBell drinks a pinr of mongoose
<mattt> AlanBell: step away from the 'puter
<Nafallo> see... that's why I try and keep a long password. if I can type it while drink, I'm still sober enough to operate a computer :-)
<Nafallo> s/drink/drunk/
<brobostigon> hence the gesture lock on android, if you are too drunk and the gesture wrong, then you probebly shouldnt use your mobile.
<popey> evening
<brobostigon> evening popey
<Pendulum> hiya popey
<AlanBell> o/ Pendulum
<Pendulum> hi AlanBell
<AlanBell> o/ popey too
<Venko> OK so I've saved my experimentational stuff as a tag in SVN. Now should I create a branch called 'prototype1-dev' then work there? I'm confused as to what branch is even used for
<penguin42> Venko: It's so you can separate versions you are working on from the main unaltered one, or even multiple sets of separate work on the same project
<Venko> Well the experimental code and stuff is tag'd now. It's not exactly a main version of the code and I don't really have one yet
<Venko> That's the point in putting everything I've got together into a first prototype first. So once that's made would prototype-1 be moved to trunk and then prototype-2 be a branch?
<penguin42> Venko: If you've just got one set of stuff you're working on branches don't help much
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> lo
<brobostigon> evening MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> how is everyone this evening?
<popey> missing out on a night of beer with friends :(
<brobostigon> MooDoo: my  hip and back hurt, and a headache, how about you?
<dutchie> trying to work out why my laptop won't boot :(
<popey> dutchie: did you squirt washing up liquid in the slot?
<popey> good to keep it clean
<dutchie> no, i resized the partitions
<popey> pfft
<MooDoo> dutchie, just has to fix a acer aspire one with a boot issue !
<dutchie> i did blow through the air vent earlier
<MooDoo> ended up flashing the bios from USB
<dutchie> a concerning amount of dust came out
<popey> maybe thats where you went wrong
<popey> do you have any washing up liquid handy?
<dutchie> no
<gord> if you can't find washing up liquid, i hear that pressing soap into the air vents, pouring in hot water and swishing it around works just as well
<dutchie> will that help linux mount my root partition?
<gord> it used to be that twitter spammers would follow me and 10,000 other people, but only have 300 or so followers back, but these days they have almost the same amount of people following them back as they do following. which leads me to believe that basically the twitter spammers are all following each other now
<wintellect> AWESOME - upgrade successful 8.04 now "Description: Ubuntu 10.04.1 LTS"   :D
<shauno> that doesn't sound improbable gord
<MartijnVdS> gord: I just report them as spammers, never see them again :)
<gord> i used to report them as spammers, but it doesn't really make that much of a difference honestly
<czajkowski> dear internet please behave or feel my wrath!
<gord> dear internet, you better do what she says, you wouldn't like her when she's angry!
<czajkowski> gord: see you know this! and I'm nice to you
<MooDoo> czajkowski, not nice to me :p
<cprofitt> popey: answered you on Free Trader
<popey> so i see
<cprofitt> there were no issues I was aware of...
<popey> seems a bit odd to title the post UDS: Anti-Harrassment Policy
<czajkowski> MooDoo: :I am!
<popey> really gives the impression that there's an issue at ubuntu summits
<czajkowski> :(
<AlanBell> whut
<cprofitt> and the thread I responded to was Re: Improving Diversity at UDS
<popey> and I don't recall seeing an issue, but of course I don't see that I'm the kind of person who would
<cprofitt> I will change the title... perhaps that will help with the impression
<cprofitt> because I do not want people to have the wrong impression
<popey> up to you
<cprofitt> thanks for letting me know that is how you took it...
<popey> just wanted you to know
<MooDoo> czajkowski, i know you are, just teasing x
<Pendulum> popey: part of the background was that there was a request for a policy on how UDS would respond to a complaint of harrassment, etc.
<popey> sure Pendulum I get that
<exobuzz> Venko, late reply, but do think the source control concept stuff and lots of other stuff in the svn book are well worth a read.  certainly i learnt a ton from that book (and other sources too)
<popey> but the post doesn't explictly say what any issues are or where they are
<popey> just that UDS is mentioned
<Pendulum> ah, okay
<czajkowski> Pendulum: aye but I'm seeing that a lot at USA conferences and not in EU, but the title assumes that similar issues happen at UDS
<popey> no other events are mentioned
<popey> no issues specified
<popey> which really casts a shadow over UDS IMO
 * czajkowski agrees 
<popey> IMHO
<Pendulum> tbh, I'm not aware of any issues at UDS (well, other than minor ones that were uncomfortable, but not harrassment)
<cprofitt> the title assumes nothing - the reader assumes something
<Pendulum> but I believe it was suggested that it would make UDS seem more friendly to women and they might be more willing to attend if there was an anti-harrassment policy in place
<czajkowski> cprofitt: the title sujects a lot
<cprofitt> however it should be considered when writing a title that being unclear can lead to misinterpretation
<popey> cprofitt: your title mentions UDS, you outline that you're disgusted by what you have read
<popey> cprofitt: how can someone _not_ make that connection?
<Pendulum> cprofitt: the title does make it sound like you're talking about things that happened at UDS
<Pendulum> I think you need to specify in there that the policies and associated stories you've been reading aren't from UDS
<Pendulum> unless they all are, but if they all are, I'm a bit surprised that I've not heard them
<popey> there's a _vast_ number of people who read planet Ubuntu, and IMO the majority of them won't have a clue about the backstory, but will probably have heard about various issues at events through reading other blog posts.
<Pendulum> yeah
<popey> AlanBell: how was the curry?
<cprofitt> http://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/
<cprofitt> re-worded and re-titled
<cprofitt> I think it takes in to account the issues raised and reflects more accurately what I wanted to communicate
<cprofitt> thanks for everyone's input... it helps to make sure the communication is received as intended
<cprofitt> does that look better?
<popey> cprofitt: I'm certainly interested to see the outcome of this!
<popey> (as in, what recommendations there are for UDS)
<popey> [Not that I'm aware of issues at UDS, as I mentioned]
<cprofitt> popey: I will be sending the draft to the CC
<czajkowski> yes I had thought it was to be woreded internally first via jon and the CC
<czajkowski> going by a mailing thread we're on
<cprofitt> popey: the sense I got was that it was to encourage particpation and not in response to actual events.
<Pendulum> popey: i've not had harrassment. i've gotten stupid comments like when I was talking to another woman at the last UDS someone came up and said "two women talking, can't be good."
<cprofitt> czajkowski: yes -- the draft will go to jono then I assume to the entire CC
<czajkowski> Pendulum: I'd hear that any event or any gathering
<czajkowski> cprofitt: yes that was what was agreed.
<Pendulum> czajkowski: I've only really heard it at things like tech events. I'm not really a fan of it, but it's not harrassment, just stupidity
<czajkowski> cprofitt: but the blog post didnt really relfect that
<czajkowski> Pendulum: possibly an irish thing heard it since I was a kid with my granny and old folks
<cprofitt> czajkowski: what do suggest in that regard?
<Pendulum> czajkowski: maybe. not something you hear in the US generally.
<cprofitt> I could add 'draft' or specify the process for approval
<czajkowski> Pendulum: kinda like anti harassment policies not something we hear over here :)
<cprofitt> czajkowski: the US, to me, seems more litagous
<czajkowski> cprofitt: Ubuntu isn't USA
<cprofitt> hence policies seem to litter the area in which common sense should play
<cprofitt> Obviously czajkowski
<Pendulum> czajkowski: fair enough. although I do actually think having a policy in place is a good idea. it gives you something to work with if there is ever a problem
<cprofitt> Ubuntu is a community that includes the US
<cprofitt> Actually let me take that back
<cprofitt> Ubuntu is no made up on countries... just people
<Nafallo> (and computers)
<popey> and ponies!
<popey> dont forget the ponies!
<cprofitt> people of varied backgrounds... backgrounds we should all respect
<Nafallo> popey: step away from my server :-)
<popey> heh
<cprofitt> ponies... I thought we only allowed Unicorns
<czajkowski> popey: went to basingstoke today, very busy place!
<popey> "Basingrad" as we call it
<czajkowski> why ?
<popey> It's a hole.
<cprofitt> in the states we call those place 'dives'
<czajkowski> ok, well a lot bigger than Aldershot :)
<Nafallo> hmm. which device was unicorn again... I bet it was my work laptop while I worked at UltraSpeed :-P
<cprofitt> Nafallo: lol
<cprofitt> I have been using the names of Finnish deities recently to name by servers... we used up all the muppets and were getting to obscure with Lord of the Rings characters
 * czajkowski looks at her new Ubuntu bag, it's oranged in the lining :D 
 * Nafallo have used his magicalforest theme for at least 7-8 years now :-)
<czajkowski> *orange
<cprofitt> czajkowski: I want one of those Ogio bags... but have not made the leap yet
<cprofitt> is it nice?
<czajkowski> not sure why they went with black and orange
<czajkowski> cprofitt: same as my last one, yes
<popey> which one cprofitt ?
<cprofitt> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=774
<popey> yeah, thats the one I want
<popey> i have the old brown over the shoulder one
<cprofitt> I have a Targus right now... but I like the idea of the side pouch for the laptop
<popey> saw someone at a conf with that one, and its really nice
<cprofitt> yeah it looks sweet... I just have to get through the holidays
<czajkowski> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=766
<cprofitt> and finish paying off the kids beds... and the repair on my wife's car
<czajkowski> my new bag :D
<Nafallo> hmm. I want another netbook to swap out my work laptop and a smaller bag :-P
<cprofitt> Nafallo: been thinking of doing that too... but Netbooks are still to small for me...
<cprofitt> been thinking about a 12.x" laptop and a desktop
<DanteAshton> Hey folks; anyone use Empathy to get on IRC?
<cprofitt> the only issue is when I run demos I need a bit more power
<Nafallo> cprofitt: I've got an HP Mini 210 that I use for home stuff, and it's the best buy ever, more or less.
<cprofitt> Nafallo: nice... I wasn't sure about the HPs
<Nafallo> that said. all I need is firefox, thunderbird, banshee and a fullscreen terminator or four.
<cprofitt> I run Vbox for some demos
<Nafallo> ah. yeah. the atoms don't do that I don't think.
<Nafallo> not sure though.
<cprofitt> czajkowski: is this better -- http://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/
<Nafallo> INFO: Your CPU does not support KVM extensions
<Nafallo> KVM acceleration can NOT be used
<exobuzz> cprofitt, demos as in scene demos ?
<Nafallo> now I'm sure!
<cprofitt> exobuzz: no,... some times I will demo installing Ubuntu or adding software... and I like to do that in a fullscreen Vbox
<exobuzz> aah i see
<cprofitt> when adding software I like to allow people to choose... and do not like messing up my own workspace... so VBox works well
<cprofitt> I did a hands-on lab for K-12 educators like that.
<exobuzz> i use vbox for lots of stuff.. very useful
<exobuzz> setting up test environments for stuff, and using microsoft video studio.. (sorry)
<exobuzz> visual even
<cprofitt> no need to be sorry... visual studio is a great productivity tool for developers
<cprofitt> I miss it
<exobuzz> yeh its quite ok. although im using an old version
<cprofitt> exobuzz: c#?
<exobuzz> c++
<exobuzz> im not very good at it though :)
<exobuzz> i do some work on xbox media center.
<cprofitt> I am trying Python currently... with three kids it makes it difficult
<cprofitt> I can barely write a well thought out blog post... so programming ... well... its not easy
<exobuzz> heh.. ive done a little python. just plugin stuff.. quite like it.. 3 kids eh. youve been busy :)
<cprofitt> 3, 5, 10
<exobuzz> aah. so you must be a pro now..
<cprofitt> the 10 year old did Robotics this fall and is doing a science camp and Oddessey of the mind
<cprofitt> so she has us running a bit
<cprofitt> pro... no... just doing my best
<exobuzz> im just a learner.. little girl shes 20 months or so
<cprofitt> and making mistakes daily
<cprofitt> congrats
<cprofitt> I have two girls and a boy
<exobuzz> nice :-)
<exobuzz> im not sure i could handle 3. heh
<exobuzz> maybe in a few years..
<exobuzz> so, have you built a robot
<cprofitt> exobuzz: its a Lego NXT we worked on
<cprofitt> but we did build a mouse trap car together
<cprofitt> she is very in to science and math
<exobuzz> aah.. i gotta get back into the lego stuff. ive seen some amazing things on youtube. its come a long way since i last used it
<exobuzz> entire lego factories made out of lego etc
<cprofitt> yeah... the base program is Windows/OS X only though... which bothered me
<exobuzz> rubiks cube solver robot thing.. and lots of others. i think i lost an entire day looking at lego stuff
<exobuzz> virtualbox again? :)
<cprofitt> yeah... color sorter, rubic cube solver... those are fun
<cprofitt> yes... I used Vbox
<exobuzz> i want a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Mindstorms_NXT now..
<cprofitt> yeah... I am considering getting one of those this year for the kids to play with
<cprofitt> they are on version 2.0 now I think
<cprofitt> http://www.amazon.com/Lego-4544091-LEGO-Mindstorms-NXT/dp/B001USHRYI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291503763&sr=8-1
<cprofitt> not a bad price either
<exobuzz> Â£200..
 * exobuzz is tempted..
 * exobuzz should wait until kid is old enough perhaps.. and not buy things for himself.
<cprofitt> lol
<cprofitt> I agree...
<cprofitt> but... once that happens... you will get nothing for yourself
<exobuzz> :)
<cprofitt> it just will not happen
<exobuzz> ive got everything i need now. got a synthesizer this year. thats everything. spectrum, c64, amiga .. just need food and water now.
<exobuzz> and electricity
<exobuzz> im quite looking forward to when natalie is old enough for toys i will like too.. then again, she might end up wanting only dolls and stuff. i do intend to try and get her on the lego though
<exobuzz> currently. its teddies and dolls.. although the computers and keyboard do well
<exobuzz> your kids like computer games? (im sure thats a daft question really)
<cprofitt> my kids enjoy computer games... each got their own computer at 3
<cprofitt> the youngest, still 3, currently enjoys playing computer games, but not as much as dolls and dressing up
<exobuzz> heh.. did you start em on 8bit ?
<cprofitt> she changes he clothes multiple times... and has 'style' or so she tells me
<cprofitt> no -- they all run Ubuntu 10.04 currently
<cprofitt> with Nvidia graphics cards and at least 2GB of ram
<exobuzz> aah.. you are raising a bunch of kernel hackers eh
<cprofitt> I can only dream
<cprofitt> popey: this better
<cprofitt> http://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/uds-anti-harrassment-policy/#respond
<cprofitt> I think that works a bit better... sorry for my rushed job earlier
<cprofitt> exobuzz: gotta order and retrieve sustanance now
<exobuzz> enjoy
<exobuzz> thanks for the chat
<cprofitt> you are welcome
<cprofitt> I have 20 minutes before I have to go pickup food...
<cprofitt> getting Steak Subs, chicken fingers, and meatball sub
<cprofitt> yum, yum
<exobuzz> i bought 5 donuts, and 4 danish pastries earleir from the shop as they were reduced to 20p
<cprofitt> nice
<exobuzz> my waist will not be reduced.
<cprofitt> those sound good... and as my waist can attest I would have eaten them all too
<exobuzz> :)
<cprofitt> ok... better get ready to go pickup dinner...
<cprofitt> good talking with you exobuzz
<exobuzz> cheers!
<cprofitt> keep me posted on your little one...
<cprofitt> oh... and every age is the worst and the best
<cprofitt> :-)
<exobuzz> hehe
<cprofitt> bbl
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-05
<AlanBell> popey: the curry was great, but seems to have had an adverse affect on my legs
<AlanBell> morning all
<Jibadeeha> time to try lincity-ng - hope it is as good as simcity
<nperry> Morning All.
<issyl0> Morning :)
 * nigelb waves to issyl0 
<issyl0> nigelb: !!
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> issyl0: Enjoying college and the snow? :)
<bigcalm> Greetings, Earthlings
<issyl0> nigelb: haha :)
<issyl0> nigelb: it'll be open tomorrow :(
<nigelb> issyl0: heh
<issyl0> nigelb: I bet it's still very warm over there?
<nigelb> issyl0: Oh yes.  I'm in Kerala (my hometown), its probably cloes to 30s
<issyl0> Wow. Can I come and visit? :P
 * issyl0 prefers heat to cold.
<nigelb> heh, anytime :p
<gord> i have networking issues but its a sunday and i'm too lazy to fix them =\
<nigelb> hah, understandable
<nigelb> Anyone tried out node.js?
<nigelb> hello dogmatic69 :)
<dogmatic69> sup
<dogmatic69> you following me around now :P
<nigelb> no way, I was just here saying hi to folks :0
<dogmatic69> the snow is all gone now :(
<nigelb> Don't let everyone hear you and whack you on the head :p
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<BigRedS> g'morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi BigRedS
<BigRedS> Heloo! How're you?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: my back and hip hurt, how about you?
<BigRedS> mild headache from last night's drinking, but other than that pretty good. Pleasantly surprised to see no snow today, too ;0
<BigRedS> :), even
<brobostigon> :)
 * BigRedS needs to fix his shift key
<BigRedS> I've been in London for the week and need to get back up to cambridgeshire today, wasn't looking forward to the prospect of riding up in the snow
<brobostigon> no snow either here, but cool temperatures forecast and cloud and mist.
<brobostigon> -1 to +1, roughly.
<BigRedS> ah, I think it's 1+ all the way from here to cambs, which is nice
<brobostigon> :)
<andylockran> Guys - about to buy a new IP phone - any recommendations ?
<andylockran> sub Â£100
<marsilainen> andylockran: out of the phones that I tried a few years ago, I was most happy with the snom phones
<marsilainen> andylockran: of course, things may have changed since then - but I'd definitely give them consideration at least
<marsilainen> andylockran: I was mainly using them with asterisk
<andylockran> yeah, that's what I use with
<marsilainen> I found that the snom phones were very configurable, and had lots of info available
<marsilainen> so was able to get them to do what I wanted easily - well as easy as anything in the VoIP world is
<andylockran> ta marsilainen
<marsilainen> np
<dogmatic69> had something wierd happen last night, first noticed i could not empty the "recycle bin" and then later on noticed log out was dissabled
<dogmatic69> anyone know what would cause that?
 * jacobw downloads 11.04 Alpha 1
<andylockran> dogmatic69: no idea matey, sorry
<dogmatic69> its all fine after a restart
<dogmatic69> just wierd
<Richie> It's time of the month?
<oly> anyone able to tell me how you middle click with a touchpad ?
<andylockran> oly: two keys at the same time
<andylockran> keys/buttons
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Out of interest was it missing anything else, e.g. your normal settings for the window manager setup or anything else?
<oly> did try that did not seem to work
<dogmatic69> penguin42: that was all i noticed
<oly> ah your quite right andylockran
<oly> it obviously the app not supporting it, thats annoying
<penguin42> dogmatic69: I've had a few things latetly where I've logged in and it has missed most config; e.g. number of virutal desktops, position of menus etc  - logging in and out fixed it
<dogmatic69> oh ok
<dogmatic69_> .
<dogmatic69> ff... pos
<ali1234> wow... unity is awful
<ali1234> you can only open one nautilus window, one firefox window etc
<ali1234> actually if you want to open anything other than nautilus, firefox or tomboy you are pretty much screwed, because there is no longer a start menu
<ali1234> there is a workspace switcher with 4 workspaces, although i can't see how you would ever be able to use more than three of them
<Laney> i thought you clicked the top icon or something?
<chrisccoulson> ali1234, it is work in progress, the dash hasn't landed yet
<Laney> (never used it)
<ali1234> Laney: the top icon just does "nautilus /usr/share/applications"
<chrisccoulson> yes, that's only temporary until the dash lands
<ali1234> the menu mover doesn't work in firefox either
<chrisccoulson> huh?
<ali1234> the firefox menu is in the normal place
<ali1234> not at the top of the screen like all others
<chrisccoulson> right
<chrisccoulson> that's actually what i'[m working on right now ;)
<ali1234> i might consider using this on a tablet
<ali1234> but it is completely unsuitable for use on a real computer
<chrisccoulson> hmm, perhaps you should make that judgement when all the bits of it actually appear
<chrisccoulson> people seem to be quick to criticise something that is nowhere near complete
<Nafallo> alpha1 != final
<ali1234> so i'm not allowed to comment on this until it is too late to do anything about it?
<chrisccoulson> ali1234, it's fine to comment, but you're basing your negative judgement on things which aren't even implemented yet
<ali1234> wow, i can;t even move dialogue windows
<chrisccoulson> what dialog windows?
<chrisccoulson> works fine here
<ali1234> for example, the dialogue window that asks you to enter a password when you create a new gnome keyribng
<chrisccoulson> that works fine here, so it must be a bug
<ali1234> heh, i found out how to open two firefox windows
<chrisccoulson> file -> New window?
<ali1234> you have to click the icon twice before firefox actually loads up, then you can have two
<chrisccoulson> oh, that shouldn't happen ;)
<ali1234> now it won't load at all
<ali1234> no more firefox windows for me
<ali1234> if you start a file manager from a desktop icon it doesn't stack properly with the others
<ali1234> firefox 4 seems nice and fast
<ali1234> compared with 3 anyway
<ali1234> i note that the unity panels don't follow the system theme like the gnome ones do
<ali1234> i hope that gets fixed
<ali1234> wow... the way the unity dock thing responds when it gets full is simply the worst thing i have ever seen on a UI
<ali1234> you can't unmaximise a single window
<ali1234> clicking the dock unmaximises all windows of that type... awful
<sprite> why has realtek wifi suddenly become such a burden with lucid?
<MartijnVdS> because realtek never wrote drivers?
<moreati> sprite: Wasn't it always a burden?
<sprite> perhaps. I didn't really have so many issues with hardy
<sprite> more laptop manufacturers are moving towards realtek now tho :S
<Nafallo> realtek does wifi now?
<jacobw> i was thinking realtek audio '97 when realtek was mentioned
<Nafallo> I've always classed ralink as the realtek of wireless, so I might have to change that now :-P
<moreati> jacobw: That's probably how their chips were started - hooked up an AC97 DAC to a 2.4 Ghz antenna
<sprite> yes they do. it saves money on the manufacturing process
<Azelphur> you know things are bad when you have a 80,000 and counting backtrace
<suprengr> buhga!  -5 forecast for 2morro morning... anyone fancying covering for me...?
<suprengr> [ & hi all o/ ]
 * jacobw also checks the weather forecast
<jacobw> similar, -7 at 06:00 warming up to -5 at 09:00 :(
<suprengr> jacobw:  ok you win the competition - my -5 was based on 07:00 forecast
<sprite> finally... nothing like recompiling shit with a 300mhz processor lol
<suprengr> sprite: recompiling sh*t?  you can't change sh*T - surely u just flush down that where it belongs!
<sprite> hahahaha
<Azelphur> that backtrace finished, 127k entries (358k lines) \o/
<Azelphur> I think I win the record for the longest backtrace :D
<sprite> screenshot
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/gdb-Xorg.txt.tar.gz better :p
<Azelphur> the whole backtrace gzip'd xD
<Azelphur> anyone smart feel free to figure out what's broken with that, X keeps crashing because of it.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: which driver?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nvidia
<dutchie> right, time to fix this laptop
<Azelphur> 185
<MartijnVdS> send the trace to nvidia
<MartijnVdS> nobody else can helpt
<MartijnVdS> -t
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: but the bt has nothing to do with nvidia, it's all in Xorg, specifically libarecord
<MartijnVdS> it could be triggered by nvidia
<MartijnVdS> because its driver pokes in some place it shouldn't
<MartijnVdS> that's the problem with closed drivers, you don't know what they do (wrong)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: before jumping to that conclusion I'll have an X person look over it, since it's X that's crashing :)
<MartijnVdS> I know what kernel people say if you say 'nvidia' ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<MartijnVdS> "But the USB driver crashed" "Sure, but you had the nvidia module loaded."
<Azelphur> xD
<beerpages> Kostenlose mini Homepages fÃ¼r Umfragen, Videos und vielem mehr auf www.beerpages.de - Beispiel: http://www.beerpages.de/view/1P/Magst%20du%20%C3%84pfel%3F
<dogmatic69> anyone know what the highest number a process id can be?
<dogmatic69> 9999 or bigger?
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: probably 65535
<Azelphur> highest I have right now is 32761
<dogmatic69> 2463 is mine
<penguin42> dogmatic69: The contents of /proc/sys/kernel/pid_max
<dogmatic69> ok
<penguin42> dogmatic69: I suspect you can turn that up quite large but I don't know
<dogmatic69> 32768
<dogmatic69> well im writing it to a db, so just checking the field type
<penguin42> dogmatic69: That's the setting on this machine
<dogmatic69> ill just make it med-int then, that is 16777215
<penguin42> dogmatic69: But hey, if you're running on a BIG machine it'll probably have more
<dogmatic69> ye, 16mil should be fine?
<penguin42> I doubt it for a big one
<penguin42> oh, current limit is apparently 2^22 - so 4Million, so yes it should fix
<dogmatic69> its an open source app im building, doubt anyone will be using it on facebook scale :P
<dogmatic69> k
<dogmatic69> cool, thanks
<dutchie> dogmatic69: just make it configurable, then no-one will care :)
<popey> evening all
<suprengr> o/
<moreati> dogmatic69: How many times are you storing a pid? i.e if it's a million and you make the field 64-bit then that's still only 4 MB extra vs 32 bit, and you don't have to worry about upgrading later
<dogmatic69> moreati: there is a cron running every ~1min -> 5min
<dogmatic69> its to make sure the last one is not running
<dogmatic69> *but* also tracking server load to email admins if there is anything funny etc
<dogmatic69> so the table should not be truncated to often as it can be used to see trends, eg server load increasing slowly showing signs of needing more/other server etc
<moreati> dogmatic69: I don't see how any of that affects what I said. Store the PID as 64-bit. The storage cost is negligable, and you won't ever have to worry about upgrading the schema format for that field.
<moreati> Because 2**64 processes should be enough for anyone
<dogmatic69> that is a load of processes
<jacobw> should be enough for anyone ;)
<dogmatic69> even something like google would not get there because there is 2*64 servers doing the work
<moreati> I'm glad it was recorded for posterity, and I hope I'm still around when it turns out I was wrong
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> did bill gates not say 256kb of ram will be enough
<dogmatic69> something like that
<moreati> he's alledged to have said 640 kB should be enough for anyone
<dogmatic69> yes, that is it
<dogmatic69> pfsh, till vista came out
<dogmatic69> 640 TB maybe
<exobuzz> plenty of my machines have only 64kb of ram. many less ;-)
<dogmatic69> o.o
<dogmatic69> a digital watch does not count as a "machine"
<moreati> exobuzz: washing machines don't run MS-DOS
<dogmatic69> ;)
<exobuzz> these are much more fun than washing machines
<dogmatic69> moreati: if they did, we would all be in dirty clothes
<suprengr> but they may use dom-s-dos
<MartijnVdS> ...
<moreati> suprengr: go to your room, that was awful :)
<suprengr> sorryu ;)
<exobuzz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFdjWSaDlIo
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_d-gs0WoUw
<exobuzz> also for our humble speccy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1o_Tr8jq3I
<exobuzz> MartijnVdS, impressive!
<Phineas> i am back at this late hour
<zleap> hi
 * zleap is installing lubuntu
<Phineas> lubuntu?
<jacobw> !lubuntu
<lubotu3> lubuntu is a project to create a derivative of Ubuntu using the LXDE desktop environment. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu . /join #lubuntu for lubuntu support.
<jacobw> zleap, its really good :)
<exobuzz> apart from the name :)
<zleap> it looks it so far
<zleap> i just need something simple to run a presentation / picture slideshow at the rugby club
<Phineas> zleap,  powerpoint
<zleap> ok Limux
<Phineas> zleap,  i mean openoffice prestintation
<zleap> yah
<zleap> hence i said presentation why give free advertising to MS
<jacobw> OO.o Impress
<jacobw> er..
<zleap> yes
<jacobw> KPresent?
<zleap> probably kpresent but lubuntu uses xfde
<zleap> so kpresent is probably a better option lighter
<zleap> i could however be a bit more adventureous
<zleap> and use a basic website for people to see what is going on, so its more of a info terminal
<jacobw> do you mean use a HTML document as a presentation?
<jpds> !latex
<lubotu3> tex is a language for describing a document, commonly used especially for scientific publishing. Information and instructions for installing TeX and other related packages can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LaTeX
<zleap> not sure,  i can use latex a little (well lyx)
<zleap> if I use beamer that produces presentations
<jpds> LaTeX has a beamer class... you know it.
<zleap> jacobw, well i can either use a presentation or if using html its ends up more of a mini webpage people can navigate through
<zleap> jpds, not that well
<zleap> but i can figure it out i am sure
<zleap> i guess i can use a simple program like f-spot to run a slideshow of photos
<MartijnVdS> zleap: eye of gnome can do slideshows
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> that's the standard image viewer that opens when you click a photo in the file browser
<zleap> i will see which is better on low memory
<MartijnVdS> eog is a VERY tiny program
<MartijnVdS> compared to f-spot
<jacobw> yeah
<jacobw> well, it doesn't need mono for starters
<MartijnVdS> also, it's just an image viewer and not a database management app :)
<zleap> i guess i can also create a page of text as a picture so it displays information as part of the slideshow, so photo, photo,  document with information e.g events
<zleap> then more photos
<zleap> well as long as putting eye of gnome on the system does not also include lots of other gnome stuff, i am ok
<zleap> got 6gb disk space
<zleap> out of 20 for system, the rest is /home, (well nearly) got 800 for swap
<popey> http://www.slideshare.net/GlobalGossip/you-suck-at-powerpoint is good zleap :)
<Phineas> popey,  i think i raced you on mario kart the other day
<jacobw> I hate watching presentations in the workplace
<jacobw> Especially the people who write 3 bullet points on each slide with a picture and then proceed to read each of three bullet point out in a monotonous drone
<Phineas> popey,  at least i thought it was you?
<popey> Phineas: you did not
<Phineas> popey,  must have had the same nick as you then *shrug*
<fubless> where might i find ubuntu swedish channel ?
<popey> !se
<lubotu3> Svensk Ubuntu- och Kubuntusupport hittar du i #ubuntu-se resp. #kubuntu-se
<fubless> danke
<zleap> popey, thanks
<zleap> well if i simply put in a slideshow of images on to a program more suited for displaying images one after the other,  it may work better
<zleap> its not someting people are going to sit through,  its simply something to look at, in the room,
<exobuzz> scala used to be quite good for presentations.. you might need to dig out your old amiga though
<zleap> hmm i have a zx spectrum
<zleap> :D
<zleap> hardly suitable for this
<exobuzz> you could use that. infact i think that would be excellent and a great talking point
<zleap> lol
<zleap> yeah load each image of tape at a very very low resolution,  i wonder whjat a spectrum would make of a 640x480 image
<exobuzz> zx spectrum can do photo realism.. well. good enough anyway. i mean just look at sam fox strip poker.. satisfied many 14 year olds :-)
<zleap> lol
<zleap> ah no wonder it got an 18 rating. :D
<daubers> Evening
<zleap> exobuzz, good point actually,  look at some ascii art and it looks pretty good
<Phineas> my first video project will hopefully export and play as a dv video and will be a sucsess
<zleap> i will also fire upa  speccy emulator and have a look at the game :D,  mind you i  suck at poker sometimes
<exobuzz> zleap, http://artcity.bitfellas.org/gallery/p/pheel/stellar-contour.png is a speccy picture. not though eh :-)
<zleap> yay cool
<exobuzz> i meant not bad though. actually is very good. considering the hardware
<zleap> i remember having a 16 way scrolling message program once,  on tape,  pretty impressive in machine code
<exobuzz> aah. the good old days
<zleap> aka assembler
<zleap> yes
<exobuzz> zleap, on speccy or ?
<zleap> on  a speccy it came  on one of the your sinclair tapes,
<exobuzz> zleap, crash, sinclair user or your sinclair reader ?
<zleap> more of a demo
<exobuzz> aah. your sinclair
<zleap> anyone remember the may 88 issue,
<exobuzz> i got a couple of game hacks published in your sinclair. was a nice feeling
<Phineas> i had a tape with a game on it the other day, how do i play this game?
<zleap> i have the whole how to hack series
<exobuzz> http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/magazine/speccy/yspp.jpg and http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/magazine/speccy/yspp2.jpg - im buzz
<zleap> somewhere
<exobuzz> Phineas, what game? :)
<exobuzz> how to hack was great
<zleap> yay
<zleap> kids today are missing out on so much having windows,
<Phineas> exobuzz,  forgotten which one but it cam on a tape
<zleap> so you remember advanced lawnmower simulator
<exobuzz> Phineas, hmm. that narrows it down to about 5000 games
<exobuzz> yeh of course! funny stuff
<zleap> i think some of the editors still work for future publishing
<exobuzz> zleap, compo winner for crap game compo wasnt it ?
<zleap> yeah but it was written by one of the team
<exobuzz> funnily enough. jeff minters lawn mowing game is quite good
<zleap> but it spawned more clones
<exobuzz> hover bover
<zleap> the patio sprintette is working well, and you earn a corned beef sandwich for doing a good job
<exobuzz> :)
 * popey used to read comp.sys.sinclair quite a bit back in the day when he had a cix account
 * zleap has a speccy clasix 98 cdrom, lots of games
<exobuzz> popey, cix.. heh.. the good old expensive online days :)
<popey> :)
<exobuzz> popey, do you still read it ?
<popey> rarely
<popey> dip in now and then
<exobuzz> popey, nice to know you are a spec-chum also :)
<zleap> i made 1 poke oncem it sort of worked for a game called diusty droid and the garbage gobblers, i loaded in the machine code and went through the whole thing and searched for 03 (lives) until one gave me more lives
<exobuzz> and still new commercial games for the speccy (and free ones)
<exobuzz> amazing :)
<exobuzz> its like 2010 going on 1985.. just how i like it
<zleap> where u get those from, i know people are making em
<exobuzz> world of spectrum indexes them. and you can search by year etc
<zleap> ah
<zleap> cool
<popey> :)
<zleap> remember worms the install had a pic of a spectrum tape
<exobuzz> http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekadv.cgi?what=1&regexp=&yrorder=1&year=2010&type=game&players=0&turns=0&memory=0&language=0&country=0&licence=0&feature=0&publi=0&release=0&format=0&scheme=0&scorder=1&score=0&have=1&also=1&sort=1&display=1&loadpics=0
<Phineas> exobuzz,  ahh it was a game of space invaders (or look alike
<popey> I captured Rebelstar Raiders for the tzx archive
<exobuzz> 2010 games
<zleap> think it was worms,  was lemmings released on the spectrum too
<exobuzz> popey, nice one! julian gollop ?
<zleap> i have rebelstar 2 i managed to compelete
<exobuzz> love that stuff
<zleap> ah julian creator of chaos : battle of wizards i loved that one
<exobuzz> lemmings was on the speccy
<zleap> thought so
<exobuzz> to everyones amazement. wasnt too bad actually
<exobuzz> chaos rocks
<zleap> yeah
<popey> exobuzz: yeah
<exobuzz> i still play it with a local friend sometimes
<zleap> that would be cool as a multi player lan game
<popey> loved his games
<exobuzz> there is a online version too.. in flash or html5 or something
<suprengr> proudest boast... I'm running Lemmings on Ubuntu ;)
<zleap> here goes, restarting lubuntu
<zleap> cool
<exobuzz> suprengr, which version. pc under dosbox or ?
<zleap> i have it on a single floppy disk
<popey> i played rebelstar 2 player with a mate of mine over email. we'd take a turn then email the 48K snapshot to eachother :)
<suprengr> dosbox
<exobuzz> lemmings on the st was great, because for 2 player only one mouse could be used. so player 2 always certainly lost
<exobuzz> joystick lemmings is well hard
<zleap> i once managed to nearly load 1 game in to two spectrums at the same time, only 1 crashed
<exobuzz> popey, now that is SERIOUSLY hardcore. i cant even come close to anything quite as erm.. dedicated as that :D
<popey> its fun
<popey> easy to do too
<popey> most emulators have a "save snapshot" feature
<Phineas> exobuzz,  the game was space invaders (came on a tape) how do i get this to play?
<exobuzz> yeh.. actually i just reread. i read "by mail"
<exobuzz> not email.
<exobuzz> hehe
<zleap> or you could simply use the ubuntu screen capture thing
<popey> haha
<suprengr> zleap:...I once managed to nearly drive 2 cars at he same time... only 1 crashed
<exobuzz> Phineas, for spectrum ?
<exobuzz> Phineas, connect ear phones.. load "" (load is on j)
<exobuzz> on emulator.. choose insert tape and do something similar
<Phineas> exobuzz,  err i don't know what its for but i found it allong with a tape drive
<exobuzz> http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseek.cgi?regexp=^Horace+in+the+Mystic+Woods$&pub=^Bob+Smith+[1]$
<exobuzz> looks like a great game ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/games-maps/h/HoraceInTheMysticWoods.png
<zleap> where are my menu options on lubuntu, i click the button all i get is logout and run
<exobuzz> Phineas, hehe. you can listen and tell what it is for maybe :)
<Phineas> exobuzz,  well tape players make a bunch of beeping and booping (data noise) so i think its a pc game
<popey> unlikely
<exobuzz> does it start. boooop. bep.. booooo bibibibibibibibibibibibibi
<exobuzz> or..
<exobuzz> booooo. brabrabrabrabrabraba
<exobuzz> 2st is spectrum .second is bbc or maybe c64.
<exobuzz> :)
<exobuzz> 1st
<popey> lol
<Phineas> exobuzz,  thats what i get when i play it through a ordenery audeo tpe player
<exobuzz> which one? :)
<exobuzz> sample it and upload it somewhere
<exobuzz> popey, did you see this "realtime" tape loading demo for the speccy ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ01EDhL0VM
<Phineas> exobuzz,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkSb9upLpXM
<exobuzz> Phineas, yeh some real turbo loading there.
<Neil3> ah i remember doing that on a c64
<Phineas> exobuzz,  thats all i get (wern't playing through the computer just through the mp3 on loudspeaker
<Neil3> half the time the games wouldn't work as well but you had to wait forever to find out
<exobuzz> Neil3, could the c64 dma from the tape ?
<Neil3> direct memory access?
<exobuzz> Neil3, or did you have to do it by interrupt type stuff
<exobuzz> yeh
<Neil3> no idea i was about 8
<exobuzz> because i rememebr the c64 had invadaload. which was way cool
<Neil3> just had loads of games all on tape
<Neil3> friends would come round and we'd choose a game and have to wait ages for it to load
<exobuzz> and better than the game you loaded sometimes. and i always wondered how it had the free cpu time. need to read up on that
<exobuzz> yeh heh
<MartijnVdS> sigh.. Natty has The Old Problem again
<MartijnVdS> indicator-applet (and now nm-applet too) eating 2G each
<exobuzz> loading a 128k speccy game was a joke. might as well out for a half hour
<Neil3> all i know about the c64 is that the SID chip is a great analogue synth
<MartijnVdS> which kind of explains the slowness I've been seeing all day
<exobuzz> yeh. tis nice
<ali1234> SID isn't analogue, it uses phase accumulators, which is digital
<popey> exobuzz: thats great!
<Neil3> the oscilators aren't analogue
<Neil3> ?
<ali1234> no
<popey> exobuzz: Glider Rider and Star Glider are my two fave speccy games
<Neil3> i stand corrected
<ali1234> there is a built in DAC in the SID
<popey> exobuzz: we should have a retro session at the next ubuntu party :)
<ali1234> that's the only analogue part
<exobuzz> The SID is a mixed-signal integrated circuit, featuring both digital and analog circuitry
<exobuzz> aah ok.
<popey> exobuzz: am watching that video on my laptop in the lounge, wifey just looked over at me (cant see screen).. "is that a spectrum loading?" :)
<exobuzz> the filter is analogue according to wikipedia
<exobuzz> popey, haha. quality :)
 * zleap is almost guity of starting a totally unrelated thread on a ubuntu channel
<popey> there's enough people over 30 year who used to have old 8 bit micros to sustain such a conversation zleap :)
<zleap> i know
<zleap> its a good off topic topic though
<exobuzz> popey, retro stuff is always fun. there was a HUGE event recently. never knew it was that big. in erm.. blackopool. r3play. i missed it unfortunately
<popey> i used to spend ages sorting through my emulator stuff
<zleap> I work in a school, play ground arguments i have seen are about girlfriend, back in our day it was c64 vs speccy that caused real arguments
<exobuzz> <- has a commodore 64 tattoo.. the gf was not very impressed when i did that
<zleap> hehe
<popey> lol
<zleap> was she a speccy fan then
<popey> haha
<exobuzz> hahah
<exobuzz> actaully its just a C= symbol. so not technically c64. but anyway
<moreati> Did any of you ever have a Spectrum +3?
<zleap> i know someone with a tux tattoo
<zleap> i had a +d drive
<exobuzz> +d .. they are great
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> load a game in a few seconds and save at any point
<zleap> snapshot and 5 or whatever it was
<mgdm> C64 \o/
<zleap> speccy eqiv of a core dump on linux i guess,  (dump memory to a file)
<exobuzz> i have a +3.. with the crappy 3 inch disk format .
<moreati> +d, any relation to the +3 disk drive or the micro drive?
<exobuzz> i have a c64 and spectrum side by side.. both lovely in different ways. also an atari 800xl because they are great too
<exobuzz> and a vectrex of course. because vector games are just.. yum
<exobuzz> +D was from mgt then datel. (called disciple first when mgt made it), was a printer and 3.5" disk drive interface for speccy
<exobuzz> with built in freezer
<moreati> exobuzz: did you ever manage to buy software on a 3" disk? I thnk I only ever found one game for sale on disk, everything else was on tape
<zleap> there were some games on +3 disk
<exobuzz> moreati, at the time i didnt have a +3. i picked one up much later. but i dont think i have any originals for it. maybe 1 ...
<zleap> only they used 3" disks
<zleap> magaznes did reviews for +3 games so there must have been games on it
<exobuzz> is it just me, or do others think the atari 800xl just looks so stylish! (for the time) http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Atari_800XL_Plain_White.jpg/250px-Atari_800XL_Plain_White.jpg
<moreati> zleap: I ended up buying a cassette deck and effectively using it as a Spectrum +1. Or was it +2?
<zleap> +2
<zleap> 128 k
<zleap> just think we managed on that back then
<zleap> i hacked tasword 2 to save to floppy on the +D
<dogmatic69> exobuzz: that is some serious square brackets [ ]
<exobuzz> dogmatic69, computer has very strong arrays that need the extra re-inforcement
<dogmatic69> lol
<zleap> ohh 2.6.35.22 kernel
<zleap> i guess that is what is also on ubuntu 10.10
<moreati> I made the same mistake replacing it, got an Amiga 500+ which run most 500 games, but not one or two verypopular classics
<Flashtek> greetings
<zleap> greetings
<zleap> ok right now its configuring linux image
<Neil3> got an a500 in the parent's loft, moreati
<Neil3> i need to ask my dad to dig it out next time he comes over
<exobuzz> moreati, almost all games should work on an a500+. with some patch or fix..
<Azelphur> A500+ :D
<MartijnVdS> I love how a generation of people have said "I have an amiga" without knowing what it means (in Spanish) :)
<Azelphur> I grew up on that shizzle
<moreati> exobuzz: I don't have it any more
<exobuzz> <3 amiga
<exobuzz> aah
<Azelphur> indeed, postman pat and thomas the tank engine racing. BEST GAMES EVAR.
<zleap> lol
<zleap> i have 4 nations rugby,  can beat any team simply by zig zagging across the pitch,  computer can't deal with that
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> zleap: reminds me of that football game I used to play on my sega saturn, you could just run up to the goaly and shoot the ball as he took a dive, 100% you'd get a goal every time :D
<moreati> Amiga -> 286 -> 486 -> Pentium -> P3 -> Athlon -> Athlon + Centrino -> (Core 2 Duo)*3
<zleap> the game stalled once with a mass of players in 1 corner,  i guess in real rugby that would be one heckof a punch up
<Azelphur> one game I scored like 250 goals in one match \o/
<zleap> cool
<Azelphur> lol
<zleap> i remmber playing fifa 98 vs germany,  german player (computer ) lobbed the goalie,  shot,  hit the post and the ball shot across face of goal
<zleap> kinda funny really to see computers miss an open goal
<zleap> i liked empire soccer on hte pc,  nice cartoon graphics and fun,  ref got run over when players ran out
<Azelphur> hehe
<zleap> or you could run past the ref he would spin round and fall over
<zleap> lol
<suprengr> hmmm much like Bil Gates then...
<Azelphur> my favorite glitch of all time has to be the one in world of warcraft where you could drop below the terrain though
<ali1234> sensible soccer? where you could score from the half way line... every time
<Azelphur> I had a buddy on the horde (enemy faction) and I'd bring him to the alliance town, drop below the map, walk to a certain position and jump back up, we'd be behind a gate that nobody else could get past without dropping through the floor :D
<ali1234> eventually both players would learn the trick and every game would be like 100 - 100
<Azelphur> so then I'd shout horde at x,y on global, everyone would come running and be confused as to how to kill the horde behind the gate :D
<Azelphur> hilarious.
<zleap> lol
<zleap> on daly thompson on the speccy i read if you waited till the time was 9.99.98 then ran you could do a 100 m in 2 seconds or something
<zleap> or very fast,  and get gold
<zleap> as clock would simply restart when running
<ali1234> possible, but also sounds like one of those "fool's errand" cheats
<Neil3> heh sensible soccer
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> but a cheat all the same
<Neil3> i had a demo disk of that which has a WW2 version, kicking around a bomb, 1966 version in black/white...
<zleap> anyone have an interface one
<zleap> which allowed spectrums to be networked
<moreati> old clips of Games Master on Youtube a great for laugh, especially for how seriously they all took it
<Flashtek> RTL8188CUS anyone ?
<zleap> realtek device right finelytuned
<zleap> realtek device right Flashtek
<Neil3> Patrick Moore FTW :)
<Flashtek> zleap: inded..
<Flashtek> I have one of those RTL devices, and I was wondering if anyone had managed to get it working..
<zleap> ah wireless lan thingy
<Flashtek> ya
<zleap> found you a link to driver  see private message
<Flashtek> I have been trying all day, can't make it play
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> looks like it is supported as there is software for it
<Flashtek> 'looks like' and 'actually' are different..
<zleap> hi tombrough
<suprengr> I know it probably breaks all code of conduct rules to be laughing at this but... you must have a look at the mistramslation in http://gnomefiles.org/content/show.php/OSS+volume+control+in+system+tray?content=135928
<Flashtek> wtf ?
<ali1234> translation: latest ubuntu doesn't support OSS, installing OSS4 on latest ubuntu makes the tray volume control not work
<ali1234> this is not surprising considering the tray volume control doesn't even support alsa any more
<suprengr> ali1234: yep, i pretty much got that from it buti preferred the original text myself...
<suprengr> ;)
<Flashtek> biab..
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well all.
<Flashtek> 8192cu just seems to not want to play..
<zleap> hmm
<jacobw> damn it, the OU have changed all their computing degrees for the worse
<zleap> ah
<zleap> in what way
<jacobw> they've abolished all the computing and something else degrees in to a general computing and information technology degree
<maco> does OU = Oxford?
<maco> (sorry, im foreign)
<popey> Open University
<jacobw> ha, oxford :) if only :p
<dutchie> although OU does = oxford in sporting events (eg OUBC etc)
<jacobw> ah, i didn't know that before
<maco> jacobw: the list of british unis i know is like this:  oxford, cambridge, stirling, edinburgh.... the end
<bigcalm> The OU is one without a city
<jacobw> well, i'd never heard of stirling before :p
<dutchie> most decent sized cities have a university
<jacobw> the open university is a distance learning establishment
<maco> jacobw: i only know of stirling because a friend went there
<zleap> i think stirling is in scotland
<maco> yes
<popey> Stirling Engines!
<jacobw> the only stirling i've ever heard of is david stirling
<jacobw> i didn't know he was scottish though :s
<popey> you can buy stirling engines, they rock
<jacobw> how is oxford going btw dutchie ?
<dutchie> just made it back alive
<jacobw> ah, end of term?
 * jacobw isn't clued up on the calenday
<dutchie> yes, finished yesterday
<jacobw> cool :) lol, calenday, i'm not too clued up on spelling either :p
<zleap> yay Moschops that was that dinosoar from kids tv back in the 80's
<shauno> completely off-topic, but I'm finding it interesting that I'm having more difficulty getting XP to drive a second monitor than I ever did under X
<shauno> in the most bizarre ways.  if I ask for 1024x768, the monitor's getting 1280x1024, with 1024x768 floating in the middle
<sprite> that is funny
<sprite> ooi, shauno, how old is the crt?
<sprite> shauno, the reason I ask is because that kind of behaviour was exactly what happened in days of old before the crts were about to blow. alternatively; dodgy driver?
<shauno> sprite: old enough :)  it's a beige dell crt
<shauno> works fine under osx, ubuntu, and my amiga. but I can't for the life of me get XP to give it the right resolution
<dutchie> right, any volunteers for dodgy boot diagnosis?
<dutchie> i have a live usb mounting and fscking the partitions fine, but it panics when it can't mount the root fs
<dutchie> it's not worked since I adjusted partition sizes
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-28
<ali1234> "tv and toaster market" lol
<ali1234> so with that in mind, how long before there's a version of unity that actually works with a touchscreen?
<popey> 14.04? âº
<ali1234> i hope you're kidding
<MooDoo> hi all
<popey> well thats the aspiration mark set out
<ali1234> it needs to happen like yesterday
<popey> i agree
<ali1234> 2 years is toooo looooong
<ali1234> much much much too long
<ali1234> tablet fad will probably be over by then
<AlanBell> morning all
<Ananya> hello all.
<Ananya> i have a question
<Ananya> when i choose a swap disk while the installation of ubuntu, will the disk be formated?
<Ananya> or not?
<dwatkins> Ananya: no, but the partition will be wiped.
<Ananya> and if i want to revert it back as it was lastly so what to do?
<dwatkins> actually, it might have changed recently, but it will certainly have its data cleared out, I think there actually is a little bit of formatting done now, as I've had problems mounting swap partitions from new linux distros on old ones
<dwatkins> What's the problem?
<Ananya> i think the drive choosen by me as swap drive was formated.
<Ananya> can it happen?
<Ananya> and if its really formatted so can i get it back? if yes then how?
<Ananya> please tell me fast i am in a hurry.
<dwatkins> sorry, was elsewhere
<dwatkins> you downgraded to an older version of Ubuntu and the swap partition can no longer be used?
<dwatkins> simple solution: don't use swap
<dwatkins> I assume by "get it back" you mean that you want to use this partition with an older release
<dwatkins> gparted should be able to format or wipe the relevant partition; as always, of course, ensure there's a backup of any important data etc.etc.
<dwatkins> if you need swap in a hurry and have a spare partition with a couple gig free, you can just create a file to use for swap instead.
<DJones> They've quite dwatkins
<DJones> quit even
<dwatkins> ah ok, thanks DJones
<DJones> about 30 seconds after saying were in a hury
<dwatkins> I set quits etc. to ignore as various channels are too noisy otherwise
<dwatkins> oh dear
<DJones> I have them on in small & realtively quiet channels
<DJones> or channels where I don't care :)
<dwatkins> heh yeah
<dwatkins> I hope they find a solution in #ubuntu or something.
<DJones> They've disconnected
<DJones> completely
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> AlanBell: What python twitter module where you playing with the other month?
<czajkowski> Aloha
<dwatkins> oh well, I guess they didn't want my help after-all
 * dwatkins goes back to supporting paying customers
<dutchie> morning czajkowski, daubers and everyone else
<dwatkins> hiya czajkowski & daubers and all
<DJones> dwatkins: You're supposed to answer INSTANTLY, you should know all the details because you've already accessed their computer before they thought of connecting to ask the question
<dwatkins> haha
<dwatkins> I'll just go ahead and take off my tin-foil hat so I can read their mind, DJones ;)
<DJones> :)
<DJones> Speaking of strange headgear, saturday evening, my wife went to her mums get her hair straightened, then put rollers in.......Doesn't one defeat the object of the other
<dwatkins> Perhaps it's a bit like formatting a swap partition before using it...
<DJones> Could be
<DJones> Then she complained because she didn't sleep well because she left teh rollers in all night & they were uncomfortable
<DJones> I nearly had a heart attack waking up, thought hilda ogden was in bed with me :)
 * dwatkins sniggers
<dwatkins> Wear a Carmen Miranda fruit hat?
<dwatkins> Oops, gave my virtual machine too much RAM now it pauses when I update 11.04...
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Hmmh, wonder if there'll be any good deals at bestbuy now their closing down sale has started
<dwatkins> Cyber Monday
<MooDoo> DJones: glad there is one just over the road, but a tip, 10% to start with then more as the days go by
<MooDoo> so it may pay to wait a few days if you want something specific
<DJones> MooDoo: Yeah, to be expected
<AlanBell> daubers: tweepy
<daubers> AlanBell: ta
<czajkowski> if anyone is about tonight and in london http://glow-london.blogspot.com/2011/11/glow-on-november-28th.html
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Fk0_WKVi8
<MooDoo> that looks fun :)
<dwatkins> indeed it does
<MooDoo> i'm sure i've seen something like that before, but more android related
<dwatkins> Project Blinkenlights?
<MooDoo> no hang on i'll see if i can find it
<MooDoo> yes this is it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=699NBQp6Jfg
<dwatkins> That's really impressive :D
<MooDoo> yeah pretty good isn't it :)
<gord> oh. ebuyer is doing Â£1 sales today...
<gord> guess i'm getting more crap i don't need
 * MooDoo wait's for the apple mac at a Â£ :) lol
<gord> well its a clearance sale, who knows what they will have ;)
<dwatkins> Good luck with that, MooDoo ;)
 * MooDoo has his credit card ready for best buy later :D
<knightwise> hey everyone
<dwatkins> hiya knightwise
<MooDoo> hay knightwise how goes it :D
<knightwise> doing ok
<knightwise> getting annoyed at my Amahi server that keeps freezing up
 * knightwise wishes he stuck to Ubuntu instead of going to fedora
<MartijnVdS> you can always reinstall
<knightwise> true , i checked that the only thing I "need" from amahi is minidlna
<dwatkins> I made the mistake of putting 1 TB of data in the same partition as my OS, so reinstalling from CentOS to Ubuntu isn't going to be easy :(
<knightwise> and i think its not that hard to install that on ubuntu
<popey> dwatkins: shrink the partition by 10G, install ubuntu in the 10G
<popey> job done
<knightwise> I went to amahi for convenience .. but its kinda like IOS
<dwatkins> popey: that's an excellent idea, thanks
<knightwise> everything 'kinda' works but you have no control
<dwatkins> I have a couple backup disks, but that will make it much easier, cheers popey  :D
<popey> np
<dwatkins> now how to shrink a Red Hat volume... ;)
<popey> gparted from a live cd
<popey> is it lvm?
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15916677
<MooDoo> lol i read that as what is it :) lol backspace time :D
<knightwise> anyone have any experience in installing minidlna ?
<dwatkins> I switched to fuppes and serviio, knightwise
<gordonjcp> knightwise: yes
<gordonjcp> knightwise: it Just Plain Works
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone!
<MooDoo> morning
 * bigcalm throws smelly eggs at Monday
 * oimon fries them in a pan with bacon
<nigelb> JamesTait: It is a Monday, whether its Happy or not is so far questionable :)
<DJones> oimon: Smelly eggs normally means bad eggs
<oimon> i'm not eating them DJones
<oimon> just cooking for unsuspecting customer
<JamesTait> Where's the positivity? The enthusiasm? We have a whole week of awesomeness ahead of us! :)
<oimon> JamesTait must be a bot :P
<MooDoo> JamesTait: are you high?
<dwatkins> What's happening this week?
<JamesTait> oimon: ValueError: Cover blown.
<JamesTait> MooDoo: What oimon said. ;)
<MooDoo> JamesTait: lol does no compute
<JamesTait> dwatkins: More of the same, I suppose, but that's not a bad thing. :)
<dwatkins> JamesTait: true, I like it when there is time to just get on with things, as opposed to being busy with travelling etc.
<MooDoo> well i've just hired some studio lighting for an upcoming photoshoot, so i'm a happy bunny :D
<JamesTait> MooDoo: Ooh, get you! :-P
<MooDoo> lol
<JamesTait> In truth, I don't know exactly what this week holds for me, but I'm pretty certain it's going to be great fun.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: it's good to be up bear
<MooDoo> beat
 * JamesTait gets his head down to do some work.
<JamesTait> MooDoo: It is - and if I can make someone else's day a little brighter as well, so much the better.
<badger> connect #django-cms
<oimon> fail
<sarea> anyone active just now?
<MooDoo> sarea: you got a question?  just ask if you do :D
<sarea> i need a hand, in svenska or english, my pc wont boot fully
<MooDoo> just ask away, if there is someone here that can help they will....
<sarea> it has graphics issues and wont behave...
<sarea> its an eeepc 1015pn
<sarea> i  spent 12 hours installing ans setting it all up - i would really appriciate help making it boot
<sarea> i booted into a live usb on that machine
<popey> ... and?
<sarea> i need the machine for class in 1 hour
<popey> We still don't know what the problem is.
<popey> What exactly is the issue.
<sarea> when i boot up, it either wont boot to a log in screen if it boots to a log in screen it freezes with horrid spotts all over the place, like an old film
<popey> what version of ubuntu is it?
<sarea> it the webbook lts version
<popey> 10.04?
<sarea> i think so
<sarea> its not the one in development
<sarea> it was released in 2010
<popey> do you have it in front of you?
<sarea> im using that machine - on live usb
<sarea> i only have one machine
<AlanBell> so it worked when you first installed it?
<sarea> yes
<AlanBell> and you spent some time setting it up, what did you do just before it broke?
<popey> I suspect it's not got the binary nvidia driver installed
<sarea> it must have been the updates
<sarea> it has got that installed
<popey> given that laptop has an ION nVidia chipset
<sarea> it workd fine with it
<popey> it broke after updating it?
<sarea> i think so
<dwatkins> oh my, CentOS has "httpd" not "apache" as the name of the package, that's doubly confusing
<sarea> i used terminal to update it, but updates where still showing on the update manager so i updated those aswell
<sarea> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade -y -s
<chrisjrob> -s means a dry run
<chrisjrob> which means it won't have done anything
<chrisjrob> and -y is a bit brave
<sarea> i didnt use -s sorry
<chrisjrob> :)
<MooDoo> dwatkins: that's because redhat use httpd :)
<popey> sarea: also, you should use sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, not upgrade
<sarea> i was tempted to use  "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade -y && sudo shutdown 2" but dicided against it
<chrisjrob> sarea: i think you're over automating
<chrisjrob> the prompts are there for a reason
<sarea> i hate being so greasy... i mean having my hands on all the code
<sarea> id never make a good mechanic
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> brobostigon: how are you this fine day?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: my eczema is stressed, and painful, but otherwise not bad. and you?
<gord> ha, ebuyer has gone down
<dwatkins> oh dear, my Samba share got infected with a virus which put dodgy-looking links on it
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yup fine thanks, just hired some studio lighting, still wondering, photoshop or gimp for editing :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :),
<sarea> dwatkins: does it need an approintment with the sti team? (smaba transmitted infection team)
<sarea> dwatkins: does it need an approintment with the sti clinic? (samba transmitted infection clinic) *
<dwatkins> sarea: sounds scary
<sarea> i hear they poke around and do some tests, swap results in a week or so...
<dwatkins> Apparently it's Worm_Otorun.ash
<MooDoo> and the server/machine had no AV?
<oimon> AV doesn't work very well anymore
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo how's life dude did the school let you play Father Christmas in the end?
<dwatkins> MooDoo: it's a CentOS file server we use for virtual machine disks only
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<sarea> dwatkins: i was making a joke
<dwatkins> sarea: yeah, I guessed you were :)
<sarea> sti clinic... also means sexually tranmitted infections clinic
 * oimon is flagging already after being woken at 5am by a muttering child
<sarea> i switched it for samba
<davmor2> MooDoo: try DigiKam first and see if it covers everything you need it's about the best linux photo tool (rather than full blown image editor)
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning :) does it deal with RAW? actually i'll have a look
<MooDoo> oimon: SNAP!
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yes although if memory serves it still didn't do a couple of things that tonytiger needed it to do but was the closest tool for the job iirc
<MooDoo> davmor2: ok i'll have a look see if it does what i want
<gord> no ipad2's for andylockran :(
<gord> i somehow feel my auto-refresh of the website every 30 seconds is not helping
<MooDoo> ebuyer?
<gord> yup
<MooDoo> backup for me
<MooDoo> ah no
<MooDoo> Error 324 (net::ERR_EMPTY_RESPONSE): The server closed the connection without sending any data.
<gord> its up and down
<MooDoo> think it's a tad busy :D
<oimon> why? they have a sale on?
<dogmatic69> apparently things are Â£1
<MooDoo> yeah
<gord> managed to get the page up with all the things on sale for Â£1, its all crap =\
<MooDoo> pah!
<oimon> plus, the basket would prob time-out
<MooDoo> best buy it is this afternoon for me then
<gord> a lot of plastic things for the wii
<MooDoo> yup it's all crap
<gord> updated hourly though
<gord> so who knows
<MooDoo> hmmm think it will all be just rubbish stuff they want to get rid of
<gord> its a clearance sale for a reason :)
<hoover> morning all
<gord> but that doesn't mean you won't find a few gems
 * oimon wonders if gord still has that page in cache
<oimon> ebuyer back up
<Laney> why were they down? sale?
<Laney> p.s. morning
<MooDoo> Laney: yeah Â£1 sales
<Laney> anything good?
<MooDoo> not for me
<oimon> died again
<chrisjrob> given the offers went live at 12.01 this morning (probably 11.31 on facebook), i'll guess anything worth having for a Â£1 has gone already
<oimon> yeah, just like amazon's "offers"
<chrisjrob> i must be too cynical - i just deleted the email
<chrisjrob> i did get an emachine PC for Â£89 though
<chrisjrob> (not this offer)
<oimon> nobody ever saved money by spending it :)
<chrisjrob> a while back
<chrisjrob> wish i'd bought a few of them
<chrisjrob> i even beat popey on that occasion :)
<oimon> finally go tthe buyer page up...wow, lame
<MooDoo> oimon: +1
<oimon> wow, what an unpleasant man that domjoly character is. how many f's and c's can you fit on a page? http://twitter.com/#!/domjoly
<MooDoo> yup sounds very pleasant.....
<oimon> probably bitter that he's on TV nowadays about as much as i am
<MooDoo> oimon: well you can tell how popular he is becasue he was on celebrety get me out of here....
<davmor2> MooDoo: is digikam any use to you?
<MooDoo> davmor2: dunno yet, i'll try it when i get home
<MooDoo> davmor2: just installed it on this fedora box, ok it might be an older version but it looks ok
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know it covers a lot of features that things like fspot and shotwell don't but it is specifically a photo app and not image editing so it might be better tailored to your needs than the gimp for example but also not as powerfully a feature est as the gimp or photoshop for example
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes i'll investigate more this evening, but i'll have to be quick as i have a photoshoot on the 14th dec
<davmor2> MooDoo: well there is always the gimp for now as a fall back ;)
<gord> i'v found the google picasa app to be pretty good for this stuff
<davmor2> gord: this is pro-level stuff rather than editing a few pics unfortunately or I would agree :)
<MooDoo> +1
<MooDoo> think i may up moving back to photoshop/lightroom....
<AlanBell> why?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: there are little features that photoshop have that gimp doesn't and they are rather handy, but hay i said may, i'm not for at least the next few months, i promised myself i'd give foss/photography tools a proper workout
<AlanBell> what little features?
<gord> you can prolly do them in gimp, but it requires about ten times the effort
<MooDoo> everything content aware related for instance.
<MooDoo> gord your right, cloning takes ages though :)
<gord> MooDoo, cloning how?
<MooDoo> gord: i mean removing telephone wires in shots for instance or anything that needs removing and you need to clone the area around it with photoshop you can use hightlight it and the app will do the rest
<gord> MooDoo, ahh yeah, get the resynthesizer - works in a similar way :) works shockingly well too
<gord> i think you can apt-get it
<MooDoo> ooo really?
 * MooDoo looks
<gord>  resynthesizer plugin even
<gord> it did it yeeeears before photoshop too ;) not to boast ;)
<shauno> I really wish the gimp didn't exist.  All it seems to do is get in the way of someone coming up with a decent image editor.
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: if there are features that photoshop has that you would like to see in Gimp, why not file a feature request?
<AlanBell> liquid rescale is awesome
<gordonjcp> shauno: gimp is pretty good as it is
<MooDoo> gordonjcp: that's good in the long term so i'll probably do it
<gordonjcp> at least the interface isn't that hideous window-manager-in-window bodge that photoshop has
<gordonjcp> photoshop is just plain unusable
 * AlanBell likes gimp
<gord> last i checked gimp was basically in maintainership mode, not a huge amount of feature development
<MooDoo> gordonjcp: depends on what you're used to, photostop is nice imo....just costly
<AlanBell> MooDoo: http://liquidrescale.wikidot.com/
<gord> could never get good results out of liquidrescale myself =\ it always stretched something or bent something
<AlanBell> depends how much stuff you want to remove
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: I just found its UI bizarre and confusing
<AlanBell> gimp is the one application that works better under Unity
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: it's got this weird thing with floating windows trapped in a larger window
<gordonjcp> which is really just a nasty hack to get around the inadequacies of the Mac window manager
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install gimp-plugin-registry
<MooDoo> gordonjcp: isn't gimp 2.7 going that way?
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: possibly, which is a terrible mistake
<MooDoo> thanks AlanBell i'll try that this evening
<s-fox> Hello
<bigcalm> Is it me you're looking for?
 * MooDoo shakes head
<s-fox> MooDoo!!!
<s-fox> :)
<MooDoo> s-fox!!!!!! missed you
 * s-fox missed MooDoo too
<MooDoo> yay o/
<hoover> Hey biggie
<s-fox> I am sorry have been gone MooDoo , it has been really busy over here
<hoover> Feeling Lionel-esque today? ;-)
<MooDoo> s-fox: it's ok, understandable
<s-fox> Forum Council stuff has been a little bit of a monster this month
<MooDoo> i bet
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to get better wifi coverage with sky?
<popey> better antenna?
<dogmatic69> looked at getting a new router but seems to be against TOS and a bit of a pain
<popey> move the access point somewhere else?
<bigcalm> popey: it's a sealed box
<popey> nice
<bigcalm> One would need a repeater
<dogmatic69> was on BT and could use the wifi at the chippy down the road. now i cant even use it in a different room :/
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I replaced my parent's sky adsl modem router with a netgear one for a while. You can find out your password based upon your sky modem mac address!
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> ive read loads of hacks about it, also have a netgear one waiting
<bigcalm> Oh, intersting: http://philbridges.com/?p=42
<popey> wow
<popey> thats a security flaw
<AlanBell> wow
<bigcalm> *interesting
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: nice, that is the simplest guide ive seen. ill try that tonight
<bigcalm> Looks to be an old article - might no longer work
<AlanBell> run arbitary busybox commands from a url string /o\
<bigcalm> This is the one I used to get the adsl credentials for my parents': https://www.cm9.net/skypass/
<dogmatic69> things like that are expected when there is 'username -= admin password = sky'
<dogmatic69> what is the point of making the TOS to only use a sky router?
<dogmatic69> what could you possibly do with some other router?
<bigcalm> Well, means they only have to support selected models for a start
<dogmatic69> i guess, but they are all about the same
<dogmatic69> almost everyone has a netgear, and that is a netgear
<gord> "almost everyone has a netgear" - no they don't
 * MooDoo does :)
<dogmatic69> everyone with sky does :{
<dogmatic69> *:P
<MooDoo> virgin here
 * Laney coughs
<MooDoo> behave
<bigcalm> Oh my
<diplo> Afternoon all
<MooDoo> how do diplo
<gord> was about to get angry at ubuntu until i realised i forgot to plug in the printers usb cord =\
<MooDoo> cough cough plonker cough cough
<gord> in my defence, it was still showing up in the print dialogue ;)
<MooDoo> gord: you just woken up?
<MooDoo> ;)
<diplo> I have just had a request from my dad to sort some sort of camera I can link to there telly so mum can see the birds in the garden ( mums partially disabled ) any one have anything similar and recommend anything
<diplo> Everything he has looked at so far is stupidly expensive
<Azelphur> diplo: get a small computer and plug a webcam into it, you can do loads more than just the webcam thing with it too
<diplo> yeah I've mentioned that to him already
<diplo> Maybe have to push it :)
<gord> popey^^ has some experience with this kinda stuff, minus the telly i believe
<MooDoo> wasn't that more stop motion in his back garden
<diplo> yeah I've done what popey has done, more to link in to the telly atm
<diplo> With so many techs in here I guess someone may have done it already
<diplo> I'm sure I've got some old Axis IP cams somewhere, may just have to do the media centre route and link her up to one of them.
<popey> you want moving pictures piped to the telly?
<popey> what distance is it?
<diplo> Telly to read door, 15ft or so
<gord> ha stop motion, i can see it now. posing for five minutes waiting for the camera to snap. moving slightly. posing for another five minutes...
<Azelphur> diplo: makes sense, with one box you can have as many cameras as you want (different angles, front and back gardens, internet webcams of parks?)
<Azelphur> and it can do any other things you might feel a desire too (DVR, Stream live TV to any computer in the house, Media/File server, Print server, are some of the things I have mine doing) \o/
<Azelphur> desire for*
<diplo> yeah been talking them into spending some of there cash, this may be the final calling :)
<Azelphur> hehe :)
<danfish> diplo
<danfish> oops - diplo: try zoneminder -  maybe a bit OTT but works for me
<diplo> Will take  a look now thanks
<DJones> I know people like playing games, but http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15923438 this is taking the P!
<danfish> DJones: badda-tish!
<AlanBell> best place for Windows 7 embedded
<MooDoo> PMSL
<AlanBell> MooDoo: high score!
<MooDoo> lol
<DJones> I can just imagine somebody playing the skiing game shouting "wheeeeeee" as they go downhill
<danfish> or "your flow rate's too low - go and see your doctor!"
<MooDoo> hope there is no drumming game
<MooDoo> drum hero - toilet edition
<DJones> MooDoo: Even worse, demolition derby, you've got to swerve your car into your neighbours to knock them off the road...Squelch
<MooDoo> ewwwwwwwwwwww
<popey> diplo: I wouldnt get a webcam, I'd get a video camera, plug into the mains, point out the back window, run a composite (cheap, easy) cable from the camera to the telly and you're done
<popey> all mum needs to do is choose the right input on the telly and she can watch as long as she likes
<gord> if you get one of them that has those remote controls, she could zoom as well
<bigcalm> The fun will be to set up a rotation device
<DJones> hmmh,  my wifes NHS trust is giving all the staff toughbooks to keep notes on
<danfish> DJones: uh-oh. That's gonna be a real smooth ride :/
<popey> diplo: i have a friend who works for a company that make software for webcams for this purpose
<popey> windows software sadly
<DJones> danfish: Tell me about it, I'm glad I'm not supporting it
<DJones> danfish: I'm more worried about the number of missing Toughbooks after week one (most of the staff work in the community) Things are always getting left behind at clients
<danfish> DJones: plus car breakins when staff leave the toughbooks on the car seat....
<gord> wouldn't a note pad do the job just as well?
<gord> i still use notepads for notes
<DJones> danfish: My wife won't be doing that, she left her handbag on the car seat a couple of weeks ago, one broken window, missing handbag & cash nicked out the bank account
<DJones> gord: Have you seen medical staff's handwriting......
<DJones> Most of it could be written in a cross between chinese & japanese
<danfish> I like to throw in a little arabic as well ;)
<DJones> Probably some Egyptian hyrogliphics around the edges, although could just be doodles
<DJones> danfish: They were going to give them ipads but decided on the toughbooks
<danfish> ipads would definitely walk!
<DJones> Heh
<oimon> had a great idea for a piece of software last night, but forgot it this morning :(
 * daubers dislikes exams
<oimon> i remember thinking it was brilliant
<MooDoo> oimon: hypnotise your self into remmebering
<MooDoo> daubers: no one likes exams
 * daubers just failed his mod 2 :(
<daubers> 1 silly mistake from nerves
<daubers> stupid exams
<MooDoo> mod 2?
<daubers> second practical part of the motorbike test
<MooDoo> bugger, i'm glad i took mine 20 years ago :)
<daubers> bah
<oimon> just saw an apple ad on the omgubuntu page :-\
<daubers> Looking at getting a credit card now as that's the only bloody way I can afford to retake it
<MooDoo> oimon: google ad?
<oimon> MooDoo: yes, although large picture, not text
<MooDoo> oimon: doesn't surprise me
<oimon> no, lots of "ubuntu fans" are actually just mac lovers in disguise
<MooDoo> people will still click it though
<bigcalm> http://work.failblog.org/2011/11/28/job-fails-the-sad-tale-of-the-failiest-printer/
<buzz_> haha
<MooDoo> hehe
<oimon> that's an ubuntu error, isn't it?
<MooDoo> looking at the theme, quite possiblyu
<oimon> bug 784 228
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 784 in Launchpad itself "+duplicate page has wrong title" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784
<oimon> bug 784228
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 784228 in evince (Ubuntu) "evince fails to print PS file to PDF file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784228
<oimon> someone hands me a laptop. i say software will be installed in 15 mins. then realise it's vista. 15 mins, and hasnt finished rebooting yet after explorer decided not to allow clicking on things
<oimon> double-click action seems to be linked to the fan
<monsterwizard> in IRSSI is it possible to use a script that automatically conntects to your fav channels and servers
<brobostigon> monsterwizard: irssi can do that on start, on its own.
<monsterwizard> oh
<monsterwizard> lol
<monsterwizard> oops
<brobostigon> http://crunchbanglinux.org/wiki/irssi
<brobostigon> good instructions.
<monsterwizard> oh thanks buddy
<brobostigon> youre welcome.
<monsterwizard> feels better than xchat2
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> also, vps + screen + irssi + bitlbee, is awfully nice, :)
<gord> huh, if you have bitlbee, why would you need a vps+screen?
<Laney> same reason you have irssi in screen?
<andylockran> redundancy :p
<brobostigon> bitlbee is also alittle useless without an irssi client, to connect to it, :)
<gord> well the point i'm making is that bitlbee provides the same function of having irssi in screen, that is a permanent irc connection
<chrisjrob> irssi without screen is like a fish out of water
<brobostigon> so can irssi inside screen, do xmpp? or msn etc, without bitlbee?
<chrisjrob> not to my knowledge, i understood bitlbee was the only way
<brobostigon> exactly,
<MattJ> XMPP \o/
<brobostigon> hence why that is why i have this setup.
<chrisjrob> anyway, without screen people could be talking about you behind your back
 * chrisjrob suffers from paranoia
<chrisjrob> have to be connected 24/7 just in case
<brobostigon> also, it means i can have all of that, there running, aslong as i have a ssh client. anytime anywhere.
<brobostigon> very convinient, and not having to have seperate clients either. especially resource saving on my mobile.
<MooDoo> chrisjrob: that's me, screen + irssi + AUTOLOG :)
<monsterwizard> irssi is on android?
<MooDoo> wouldn't have thought so, but anything is possible
<brobostigon> monsterwizard: running insider screen on my vps, and i then connect to it, with connectbot, and android ssh client.
<monsterwizard> oh sweet!
<Myrtti> brobostigon: irssi connectbot I hope
<monsterwizard> sounds awesomely geeky
<brobostigon> Myrtti: most definatly. yes.
<Myrtti> that's what I do, although I don't have a vps
 * awilkins used to run irssi inside screen on his router and connect to it with SSH
<awilkins> It negatively impacted the uptime of the router, I think the scrollback would accumulate and fill up the RAM
<awilkins> These days I just limit myself to running IRC when I actually want to be present...
<brobostigon> inside 6 odd months, irssi has sgefaulted once, due to a fault in a plugin, and that has been it, otherwise stable.
<awilkins> Oh damn, train
<Myrtti> I just pay 30EUR per year for a shell account that has my website as well
 * Azelphur pays Â£95/mo for server space \o/
<monsterwizard> oh god
<monsterwizard> :9
<brobostigon> monsterwizard: it is really very simple. and has loads of benefits, as we have descibed.
<chrisjrob> MooDoo: glad to know I'm not alone in my insanity
<chrisjrob> and yes, autologging :)
<MooDoo> :D
<chrisjrob> and what about irssi scripts...
<chrisjrob> adv_windowlist.pl   hilightwin.pl  nicklist.pl  screen_away.pl  trackbar.pl  usercount.pl
<chrisjrob> aspell_complete.pl  nickcolor.pl   rot13.pl     splitlong.pl    uniud.pl
<chrisjrob> forgotten i even had some of those
<chrisjrob> vapyhqvat ebg13
<chrisjrob> :)
<daubers> evening
<mgdm> hi daubers
<mgdm> what prompted your "AAAARGH" earlier?
<daubers> mgdm: Failed bike test :(
<mgdm> awww :(
<daubers> More todo with frustration with myself than anything else
<jutnux> Alright lads/ladettes.
<jutnux> What do you think of the sc** of our country? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=i47HoiM0Au8
 * AlanBell thinks that is rather offtopic
<czajkowski> chrisjrob: you're not insane at all :p
<jutnux> AlanBell: Not much in here is ontopic ;)
<directhex> cake is on topic
<directhex> this is mainly a channel for discussion of baking recipes
 * MartijnVdS is now officially a GeekÂ®
<MartijnVdS> I've ordered a patch panel for my home
<TheOpenSourcerer> pah MartijnVdS - I've had a patch panel and 16 port 100Mbps switch in my house since 2000 :-) (House was flood wired with CAT5e in 1999.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I wired the house with Cat5e when I moved in, 6 years ago
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I just terminated the wires in RJ-45 connectors instead of a patch panel
<MartijnVdS> so I have a cupboard full of wires, which I hate
<dutchie> any folks have any clues why my shiny new build won't boot off a usb stick
<directhex> boot order isn't set to prioritize usb?
<dutchie> it will boot, sorry
<dutchie> i was not particularly clear what "won't boot" means
<dutchie> i get a load of dmesg-looking stuff scrolling past, ending with stuff about sdb and attaching a scsi removable disk
<dutchie> though scrolling up a bit reveals a kernel oops :(
<dutchie> "BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 00000000010"
<mgdm> oooh, exciting
<MartijnVdS> eeeek
<dutchie> how helpful of you two :P
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: when in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout :)
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> i think it may be nouveau's fault
<dutchie> is there some boot option magic i can force the proprietary drivers with?
<MartijnVdS> do you have them installed/compiled?
<dutchie> i just made a default amd64 11.10 usb stick, the disk in there has nothing resembling an os on it
<Pernig> rdblacklist=nouveau works on fedora
<Pernig> if you type that into your boot options
<Pernig> can't remember if that's what to do for Ubuntu though
<Pernig> maybe 'nomodeset'
<dutchie> aha, nomodeset is an improvement
<dutchie> yay, i have a desktop
<MooDoo> evening all
<Pernig> hi MooDoo
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Community Leadership Summit 2012 Announced - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/28/community-leadership-summit-2012-announced/
<andylockran> http://www.pingtest.net/result/51462050.png
<andylockran> anyone give me any tips on this?
<gordonjcp> move house?
<andylockran> Connection just seems awful, when I remove the router it's normally much better..
<andylockran> Doesn't make much sense to me though - any recommendations/thing to look out for
<AlanBell> andylockran: wired or wireless connection to your router?
<andylockran> AlanBell: currently wireless
 * AlanBell has a computer with a really rubbish wireless usb dongle
<andylockran> I'm using my macbook
<AlanBell> drops loads of packets and is slow
<andylockran> don't seem to get it elsewhere, only at home.
<andylockran> but virgin man made me connect direct
<andylockran> and it worked better
<andylockran> do VM do anything to their 'own brand' wireless routers (though I believe them to be Netgear too) ?
<AlanBell> do "mtr ubuntu.com" for a minute or so
<AlanBell> and then do the same when plugged in via a wire
<andylockran> when I do that I get packet loss on the edge of the virgin network most the time
<andylockran> tweeted you
<Myrtti> oh boo
<Myrtti> Skype crashes on login on the tablet
<Myrtti> this is not amusing
<AlanBell> andylockran: eww, nasty
<popey> âº
<mgdm> I have no idea how you type Unicode chars on a Mac :(
 * AlanBell declares quicksynergy to be rather awesome
<AlanBell> !info quicksynergy
<lubotu3`> quicksynergy (source: quicksynergy): GUI for easy configuration of Synergy. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9-1 (natty), package size 24 kB, installed size 176 kB
<AlanBell> it lets you use your mouse and keyboard across multiple computers next to each other
<Azelphur> AlanBell: hehe, I was using that about 5 years ago :)
<Azelphur> it is cool, though
<AlanBell> not mind blowing stuff, but I keep finding I am typing stuff on the wrong keyboard so it would be less confusing for me
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-29
<ujjain> I have less/fewer nukes than you. (Which is right?)
<AlanBell> ujjain: fewer
<AlanBell> morning all
<danfish> morning
<danfish> the sun supposedly rose a bit ago....not that you can tell today
<danfish> not gonna be a good day for us SAD suffers :(
<AlanBell> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/technology-video/8922159/Londons-Millbank-tower-collapses-in-spectacular-light-show.html
<AlanBell> not as good as some of the other building projections
<popey> and the streaming failed completely
<popey> loads of people complaining on the nokia facebook page
<popey> even people there complained it only lasted 10 minutes and the audio sync was out
<AlanBell> looked like there was far too much just projecting video onto it
<AlanBell> might as well not have been a building
<popey> http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
<popey> wonder what technology it uses
<AlanBell> the British Library is a strong Microsofy lobbyist
<czajkowski> morning
<czajkowski> stream looked good from apt obviously no audio just nice colours
<popey> stream or do you mean 'real life eyeballs' ?
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> yes eye balls
<popey> yeah, I'm sure it looked good if you were there, crappy for the thousands of people who were told to 'like' the nokia.uk fb page to watch the stream
<czajkowski> ugh
<czajkowski> though after 7.5hrs in a&e anything with colours and no sound was nice
<freakyclown> *sighs* </3 ubuntu any more :(
<czajkowski> freakyclown any reason why ?
<AlanBell> don't think I have ever liked any company page on facebook
<AlanBell> but I can't find a list of pages I have liked anywhere in the UI
<freakyclown> the constant "gifts" it surprises me with almost on a daily basis
<freakyclown> todays present is to boot up with cpu fan on full power blowing out cold air
<czajkowski> hmm
<AlanBell> freakyclown: done the lmsensors thing?
<AlanBell> czajkowski 7.5 hours in A&E is a bit excessive, you might want to think about cutting back on that habbit
<czajkowski> alanbell checking for a dvt so waiting for blood tests twice as first time didnt draw enough blood
<czajkowski> thrn a doppler scan
<freakyclown> AlanBell: yeah but pwmconfig says there are no compatible sensors :/
<MartijnVdS> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/29/marmite-spill-m1
<AlanBell> "Marmite lorry spill causes jam" is that the best they can do with that!
<AlanBell> erk, that sounds nasty czajkowski :(
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you want them to go "a few miles yeast of Sheffield"?
<gord> "We are writing to inform you that your Google Checkout account will now be part of Google Wallet." what?
<MartijnVdS> gord: It's not a hard sentence to parse really
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> gord: it changed the other day :S
<gord> my issue is more, aren't they the same thing?
<MartijnVdS> gord: they are now ;)
<freakyclown> \o/ ubuntu is the new windows - reboot fixed the fan issue
<AlanBell> \o/
<MooDoo> :)
<wintellect> Mornin all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<MooDoo> any photographers here used this - http://entangle-photo.org/
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: no, but it looks cool
<MooDoo> yeah think i'm going to try building it tonight
<gordonjcp> I'll point it out to Carolyne next time she's over
<bigcalm> Oh, thought you two lived together
<gordonjcp> we did until about six weeks ago ;-)
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<nigelb> AlanBell: The millback video looks nice :)
<MooDoo> nigelb: link?
<nigelb> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/technology-video/8922159/Londons-Millbank-tower-collapses-in-spectacular-light-show.html
<MooDoo> Dead Mouse Gig :)
<MooDoo> or deadmau5 :)
<MooDoo> very good
<JamesTait> Gelukkig Dinsdag! :)
<MooDoo> JamesTait: bless you :)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: jij ook :)
<ujjain> AlanBell: thanks! :)
<JamesTait> MooDoo: :-P
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: Dankie. :)
<MooDoo> :D
<gord> well, google/youtube is clever. i put in the Japanese wording for "spice" (apparently ã¹ãã¤ã¹) to find a specific track i wanted to hear. it gave me music video results for the spice girls and that old spice man
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> the internets are too smart for your tricks :P
<MartijnVdS> Old Spice Girls?
<MartijnVdS> are they back together?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: god i hope now :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: NOW?
<MooDoo> s/now/not/g
<MooDoo> :)
<MartijnVdS> Freudian typo
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> On train to nottingham, don't like traveling without me driving
<diplo> :'(
<dwatkins> I much prefer taking the train, although that's partly because most of my long journeys are the order of 450 miles.
<Laney> notts eh?
<Laney> what you doing here?
<dwatkins> I suspect my other half just bought me a Kindle for christmas, which will be nice to use on the train.
<diplo> 4 1/2
<dwatkins> 4.5 hours, diplo?
<diplo> Hours for me
<MooDoo> diplo: what you doing in mine and Laney 's town?
<dwatkins> yeah, I got bored of driving after several 8-hour trips.
<diplo> Heh phone itch, getting used to it
<diplo> Irc*
<MooDoo> diplo: you're names not on the list you're not coming in ;)
<diplo> Headoffice is there, meetings etc, Xmas do on Friday, so up all week
<MooDoo> diplo: wheres you're head office?  which part of notts?
<Laney> come climbing with me tonight!
<MooDoo> Laney: indoor climbing wall?
<diplo> I expect I will be forced out on the beer tonight
<Laney> yep
<MooDoo> not been there since it was moved from sherwood
<Laney> heh, that was a while ago now
<MooDoo> Laney: yeah
<diplo> Anything good on in notts this week?
<MooDoo> diplo: stabbings, shootings i reckon ;)
<Laney> climbing /competition/ on friday!
<diplo> Heh
<Laney> er er er
<Laney> forest vs leeds tonight ^o)
<MooDoo> diplo: stick to the pubs, youll be fine :D
<diplo> How many more times does this train need to stop!
<diplo> Any uni things on?
<Laney> apparently there are 'christmas street activities' happening tomorrow
<Laney> you could go gawp at the occupiers
<MooDoo> like i said, stick to the pubs lol
<diplo> Cool, right in town so will take a look
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<davmor2> morning all you funky people and czajkowski
 * czajkowski peers at davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: what just sayin'
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning, and i'll think you'll find czajkowski is as beautiful as the morning sun, warm and a pleasure to behold :D
 * diplo pukes over moodoo
<MooDoo> diplo: pah!
<czajkowski> MooDoo: really even that made me gag a bit
<diplo> :)
 * MooDoo reminds himself to be nice a little less sucky next time
<diplo> Heh
<diplo> Nearly at gloucester, food stop \0/
 * Laney just bought a movember moustache shaped cake
<czajkowski> Laney: so wrong!
<czajkowski> but I still want to see a pic
 * MooDoo is tempted to wait at the trainstation with a sign for diplo and take him to st anns and leave him there
<MooDoo> i'm nice that way :D
<diplo> Don't know St anns but guessing not a nice place
<MooDoo> diplo: correct :D  yes i'm such a <subversion alternative> :D
<Laney> meh, i know people who live there
<Laney> it's not that bad
<diplo> Need a lift to colwick if your offering though
<MooDoo> diplo: if i was in the car i would of as it's on my way home alas i'm not
<Laney> czajkowski: http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/moooooooooovember.jpg
<MooDoo> hehe
<diplo> Heh, nah got to call for a lift when I'm just outside notts, taxi service all week, odd not having a car
<Laney> colwick... virgin media?
<MooDoo> diplo: okey cokey
<MooDoo> or insphire or one of about 10 that's around there
<czajkowski> Laney: hahhah brilliant
<Laney> :>
<Laney> that'll go well with me lunch
<diplo> Nah, company called agathos, Brunswick trading estate I think
<MooDoo> ah i know where it is
<MooDoo> epos and stugg
<MooDoo> stuff
<diplo> Yeah
<davmor2> bigcalm: Mr evil in the room ;)
<bigcalm> It's a bit mean to call him that!
<MooDoo> i'm not evil :p
<davmor2> bigcalm: I can't see mrevells nick now without thinking it you are to blame sir tis your fault ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: no not you this time ;)
<bigcalm> Bwuhahaha
<MooDoo> davmor2: awwwww :(
<awilkins> How do you go back to nouveau from the nvidia drivers?
<awilkins> My system is not stable and I think it's the graphics drivers - they seem to put the card in a bad state, you reboot to windows, when it tries to render aero elements, it crashes and reboots
<awilkins> Although booting Windows up twice then seems to reinitialize the card and stabilise the system
<awilkins> Until the next time...
<popey> power down rather than reboot?
<popey> and to switch back I'd remove nvidia-current and ditch your xorg.conf
<popey> should auto-use nouveau
<awilkins> popey, You'd think that would help - I even powered down, then cut the PSU cord, then went for a 40 minute run
<awilkins> popey, But I came back and the system locks again within minutes
<awilkins> Windows will run the likes of Skyrim stable for hours, so I don't think it's a hardware issue ; Natty was always stable on this hardware
<awilkins> It does seem to coincide with notifiers fading as well - often locks with a notifier visible
<oimon> what is the card model awilkins?
<awilkins> oimon, It's a 560Ti
<popey> awilkins: both 64-bit OS's ?
<awilkins> popey, Vista is 32-bit
<awilkins> I get memory style graphic corruption on Vistas login screen (temporary). The weirdest was that something triggered by key inputs were being written to the same memory area as the framebuffer in LightDM - so the corruption would advance across the screen as you typed your password
<awilkins> Have tried both standard and x-swat PPA components
<awilkins> Hence the desire to try nouveau for a while
<awilkins> I did try Unity2D for a while as well but that didn't improve matters
<awilkins> So presumably not an OpenGL thing per-se
<awilkins> Righto, here goes nouveau
<oimon> i wonder if there is a memtest for graphics cards
<popey> you know opengl is switched on even in unity2d?
<popey> compositing rather
<directhex> definitely hw failure
<oimon> he's gone
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3`> another contentless ping... sigh...
<czajkowski> http://www.asuslaptop.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=UX21E-KX004V
<czajkowski> does look nice
<AlanBell> is google dns down or something?
<AlanBell> can't get to 8.8.8.8
<Laney> yes
<Laney> i have just found that
<AlanBell> teh internetz is broken
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: great, that is why my internet is dead :/
<AlanBell> erk
<AlanBell> someone got an alternative suggestion?
<dogmatic69> your isp's
<awilkins> Hmm. Unity 2D - distinctly less whizzy
 * AlanBell wonders what the ISP DNS settings are
<MooDoo> explains why my google talk account has terminated
<awilkins> On the other hand, not crashed yet
<popey> 12:51:18 < popey> you know opengl is switched on even in unity2d?
<popey> 12:51:24 < popey> compositing rather
<DJones> AlanBell: opendns?
<popey> you might want to turn that off awilkins
<AlanBell> DJones: yeah, know it's IP address?
<AlanBell> I would google for it . . . but
<oimon> WOW...can't get to google
<DJones> AlanBell: Not sure
<awilkins> popey, I'll try nouveau for a bit and see whether that improves matters - it's going to have to be for a week, probably - the instability is not predictable and I can have whole days without a problem.
<oimon> OPEN DNSÂ servers (208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220)
<awilkins> popey, It might be interesting to reboot to Vista and see if the same crashing occurs
<DJones> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDNS
<DJones> But google seems back up now
<popey> awilkins: i use nouveau on my mbp
<popey> because the nvidia-binary driver doesn't support efi â¹
<oimon>  host www.google.com 8.8.8.8 ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
<popey> wfm
<popey> www.google.com          CNAME   www.l.google.com
 * AlanBell reboots router and gets plusnet dns settings
<DJones> Seems to be on & off
<shauno> times out here; ditto 8.8.4.4
<popey> haha, then....
<popey> Nameserver google-public-dns-a.google.com not responding
<popey> www.l.google.com A record not found at google-public-dns-a.google.com, try again
<oimon> traceroute failing
<dogmatic69> 173.194.67.147
<AlanBell> opendns
 * Mez chuckles
<Mez> someone else noticed it too ?
<Laney> oh google
<oimon> shouldn't you all use your own ISP DNS as the secondary ?
<AlanBell> oimon: that is a very good idea
<oimon> twitter is overcapacity too.. might be something going on
<awilkins> I just use my ISP DSN for both - what's the beef with using someone elses?
<popey> tertiary âº
<AlanBell> I had 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.8.9 as secondary
<oimon> awilkins: some are crap and keep changing IP address too
<dogmatic69> i thought it was 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
<popey> it is
<AlanBell> well no wonder it failed
<Mez> didn't level 3 have a weird DNS server
<Mez> like 4.4.4.4 or something
<popey> 4.2.2.1
<popey> and 4.2.2.2
<oimon> 1.3.3.7 would be better :)
<popey> heh
<oimon> twitter.com is down
<Mez> 4.2.2.2 XD
<oimon> and a million hipsters cried out at once
<AlanBell> oimon: works for me
<oimon> AlanBell: uppy downy like the google
<AlanBell> ooh they depend on it!
<oimon> the fail whale says it is over capcity
<andylockran> cyber attack?
<chrisjrob> do people trust google DNS?  I don't think I'm over paranoid, but really, don't they have enough information on us already?
<MartijnVdS> Time for dnssec
<dogmatic69> chrisjrob: whats a little more?
<chrisjrob> there is that i suppose
<oimon> time for luinch
<dogmatic69> its back up \o/
<AlanBell> too late, they lost me
<dogmatic69> :/
<Mez> yeah - who's on opendns now?
<AlanBell> I might put google back as a secondary at some point when I feel like rebooting my router again
<dogmatic69> lazy at its finest http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/11/arduino-controlled-lego-cd-duplicator.html
<gord> grr, i want to go out to lunch but i'm expecting a delivery. i know the second i leave my neighbourhood they will deliver it
<dwatkins> and this is why we need GPS locators on all tracked packages
<andylockran> :D
<awilkins> Disabling compositing makes Unity2D exhibit a few lovely quirks like not redrawing selected bits.
<gord> aand it arrived, complaining *always* works!
<andylockran> :D
<awilkins> Also, why does the bottom-right drag handle in LibreOffice Calc actually summon a menu when you grab it....
<awilkins> gord, It's like needing a cardboard cutout of a developer
<awilkins> gord, Explaining your problem to someone always induces your brain to solve it
<gord> awilkins, i was inducing sod's law more than anything else i think ;)
<gord> if i need to get someone to reply to me on irc i typically just go and make a cup of tea. sods law always intervenes to make them respond when i am afk
<dwatkins> imagine the possibilities
<dwatkins> tea could be the next motivational tool... oh wait
<oimon> popey: did you ever get your eee transformer or were you swindled?
<funkyHat> Ooh... I am interested in finding out from someone with an eee pad transformer whether it's possible to install debian/ubuntu userland on top of android like it was with older versions of android
<funkyHat> (and I do mean installed at the same time as android, not replacing android, I just want vim, git and a few other bits)
<Laney> bah
<Laney> when's this google plus migrator coming?
<MartijnVdS> Plus migrator?
<Laney> switching accounts makes me fury hulk smash
<Laney> to go to an apps account
<oimon> http://slashdot.org/story/11/11/29/0232205/europes-largest-it-company-to-ban-internal-email
<oimon> LOL
<MartijnVdS> I didn't use plus much when it didn't work with my Apps account
<shauno> oimon, sometimes I wish we could really do that.  I've been having fun trying to teach my spam filters to junk the majority of my internal mail
<oimon> however, it's a PHB idea from someone who likes high level meetings and doesn't do detail
<dwatkins> oimon: they should use jabber
<shauno> Here's a great example.  the last emailed I received was "Subject: Christmas Party 2011- ON SALE-LAST DAY TODAY- Please Read - Do not delete :-)"
<shauno> it's difficult to explain the issues I have with such spam without triggering !ohmy  :/
<dwatkins> I know the feeling, shauno
<oimon> so who's thinking of retraining as a comp sci teacher now that they will reform CS in the national curriculum
<dwatkins> We tend to use jabber internally for discussing things, and there are occasional e-mails like that.
<dwatkins> oimon: they are?
<DJones> oimon: Does it involve working with children? No thanks....
<dwatkins> you mean this, oimon? http://teachcomputing.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/the-new-bbc-micro-project/
<shauno> I do a lot of work via email, because we're across fairly disparate timezones.  Which also means I like to be notified of replies.  But I don't like being interupted by .. ugh.
<dwatkins> ah yes, this was on the BBC too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15923113
<dwatkins> a friend of mine is an ICT teacher, he tells me the first thing they need to do is allocate more than a single lesson a week to it
<oimon> http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/regulation/2011/11/28/government-lukewarm-on-it-education-review-40094523/
<oimon> contains the pdf with recommendations
<oimon> they are distinguishing between ict and CS
<oimon> and recognise they need to attract talented CS teachers
<oimon> and putting CS on the new curriculum at the expense of ICT
<awilkins> I related to the headlines - I would *really* have like to take CS instead of Latin at school
<oimon> i would like to teach it too
<awilkins> The Latin teacher used to get really peed off with me because I'd fail his tests, then ace them outside the teachers common room after lunch
<awilkins> Personally I just think it was because it revealed to him the pointlessness of his subject
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you're missing from surrey
<dwatkins> I did Latin at school, never understood the point of it.
<dwatkins> heh, that yacy.net site publicised on the BBC technology page is completely unresponsive now.
<oimon> was it compulsory?
<dwatkins> oimon: yes
<oimon> i learned russian instead. thought it wouldn't be useful. now london seems to have more russian speakers than english speakers
<dwatkins> I learned French and German, and was very glad when it led to employment opportunities I otherwise wouldn't have had.
 * awilkins tries to get Unity3D working on nouveau
<oimon> what do you do if someone asks you to endorse them on linkedin (and you don't want to)? ingore it or tell them?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: yes.
<MartijnVdS> oimon: depends on how much you want them to like you
<dogmatic69> oimon: depends if its an employment agent or not
<diplo> Ignore
<oimon> if they were a bad hire
<oimon> it's compassion vs integrity
<dogmatic69> ignore others, and tell the agents to f--- off
<oimon> just received a call from an agent regarding a role that is not public yet...hmmm
<diplo> Rah, at long last pulling into nottingham
<Laney> took yer time
<diplo>  Heh
<diplo> Need to stretch these legs!
<MooDoo> oimon: don't worry, i've already sent in my CV too ;)
<MooDoo> oimon: it's the one for tea boy right :)
 * oimon doesn't drink tea
<oimon> tbh i don't even know what role they were phoning about as i pretty much hung up on them
<davmor2> MooDoo: if there is one thing that the boston tea party taught us it should be that tea doesn't make great bouys
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol i was just teasing oimon about his role that's not public yet
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know, I was just playing with the word Boy :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: i know ;)  just not into boys unlike your good self *snigger*
<oimon> fnar fnar
<davmor2> MooDoo: instantrimshot.com
<MooDoo> :D
<MooDoo> badum tish "i thank you"
<oimon> rim ewww
<MooDoo> ok ok enough now :D
<davmor2> oimon: what, it's a button like sadtrombone.com but plays bad dum tish
<awilkins> The only time an agent contacted me on LinkedIn, it was for consultancy in Qatar
<awilkins> The rate was tempting. But the wifelet would NOT have approved.
<oimon> throat sweets usually help
<awilkins> instantrimshot.com
<directhex> instant rim what?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: job.
<awilkins> And yes, I thought the same about that the first hundred or so times I saw it.
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: NOOOO!!!! you're a bad bad man!
<awilkins> Then one day I wasn't at work and visited it. It was boring. But it still sounds disgusting to me.
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: what? people don't want to work for the people who make Blackberry?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: >:)
<oimon> directhex: are you using CM7 on your touchpad?
<cliftonts> Hi all, who fancies a challenge today?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: No
<davmor2> run everyone run and save yourself
<MartijnVdS> Ctrl+S
<directhex> oimon, no. i'd consider trying cm8 in the future, but using a crap phone os on a nice tablet seems backwards
<oimon> CM9?
<MooDoo> cm9 out?
<MartijnVdS> CM328742984
<oimon> on nexus s apparentlu
<MooDoo> that was quick
<awilkins> installing libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental has not magically enabled Unity 2D on nouveau
<awilkins> Ho hum.
<awilkins> s/2D/3D/
<oimon> getting a bit miffed with buggy TP/webos apps
<oimon> and getting android envy
 * MartijnVdS is still happy with 4.0.1 on the Galaxy Nexus
<cliftonts> my 11.10 install has begun shutting down suddenly whenever I try to add my music collection to a player, either banshee or rhythmbox. Any ideas?
<MooDoo> oimon: http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/mpn5w/w000t_cm9_for_nexus_s_is_here/
<MartijnVdS> the RFID/NFC reader is cool :)
<directhex> oimon, cm9 then. whichever one the tablet version of android is
<oimon> yes ..9 ..hopefully coming early 2012
<oimon> to TP
<directhex> although multitasking on android is still lolleriffic
<davmor2> cliftonts: run top in a terminal then try again it maybe that you are overloading the CPU temp and it's shutting down due to the db update if top says it is maxing out the cpu it's a good chance
<oimon> as is MT on TP
<oimon> apps only suspend
<cliftonts> good idea davmor, brb after another shutdown then!
<oimon> cliftonts: also tail -f /var/log/syslog
<directhex> android multitasking is non-deterministic nonsense
<cliftonts> actually no. I have 2 folders with music in, it's only the one, always the same one that causes the shutdown
<cliftonts> rhythmbox-metad[2110]: segfault at 0 ip 0028ab61 sp bfcc9cf0 error 4 in libgobject-2.0.so.0.3000.0[256000+4d000]
<cliftonts> AptDaemon: INFO: Quitting due to inactivity
<cliftonts> AptDaemon: INFO: Quitting was requested
<cliftonts> lots of those in the log
<awilkins> Sounds like it might be down to mangled metadata in one of your music files
<cliftonts> now that sounds like hell to track down
<oimon> cliftonts: do you have samba on that system?
<cliftonts> probably not omion, why?
<oimon> check...
<oimon> look for
<oimon> dpkg --list | grep winbind
<cliftonts> ok, yes I do
<cliftonts> apparently
<oimon> seen some forum posts that say removing winbind fixes it :)
<cliftonts> I have winbind but not samba
<oimon> i'm just a bloke on the internet, reading something another bloke wrote. but might be worth a try :)
<cliftonts> lol isn't that how it's done omion?
<cliftonts> ok, shall we do this then?
<oimon> except if i'm at work, then i back it up first
<cliftonts> importing now
<oimon> drum roll...
<cliftonts> this could take some time...
<cliftonts> I wonder what the hell samba has to do with mp3's
<oimon> also, is winbind still running a process?
<cliftonts> no idea omion but I'm still here so make of that what you will
<oimon> maybe affects hostname lookups
<cliftonts> why would importing an mp3 need a hostname lookup?
<cliftonts> 10,000 songs done, 6,000 to go
<oimon> it might check musicbrainz and UPNP , or samba mounts
<cliftonts> hmm, I suppose it's probably set to retrieve artwork
<MartijnVdS> it needs to report to the copyright agencies
<oimon> i find the cover manager in clementine music player unbeatable for cover art
<MartijnVdS> so they can come around and sue you
<dwatkins> Can't you just show it the CD and have it read some unique identifier off the CD?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's how musicbrainz works?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: ah ok
<cliftonts> haha MartjnVdS
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it calculates a disc id based on some properties of the TOC
<oimon> like when i uploaded a clip of my son dancing while a song was playing in the background, received an email stating that it contained a copyrighted song
<davmor2> cliftonts: depends is the name c:\\my-music-drive?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Disc_ID
<dwatkins> yeah, I thought I'd seen that kind of thing before with CDDB
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yes but CDDB id's are not unique enouhg
<dwatkins> oh right
<cliftonts> davmor why would I have a windows drive assignment. You've lost me
<dwatkins> so can you bypass having to rip a CD by waving the CD's code in the direction of some application?
<oimon> yes please dwatkins
<oimon> cliftonts: how many songs left?
<davmor2> Sometime I feel I've to......... run away, I've got to.........Get away..........
<cliftonts> 3000
<oimon> one bug with banshee/rhyhmbox was related to u1 music store and winbind
<oimon> that's been fixed allegedly
<oimon> bug 738140
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 529714 in eglibc (Ubuntu Precise) "duplicate for #738140 rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in _nss_wins_gethostbyname_r()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529714
<cliftonts> hmm well this has never happened to me before
<oimon> if it works, then awilkins would say "cum hoc ergo propter hoc"
 * awilkins can't remember enough Latin to swear in
<dwatkins> "Horatio in horto laborat" is the limit of my Latin.
<dwatkins> it's not even useful, as I don't know any gardeners called Horatio.
<cliftonts> And just like that I'm gone!
<oimon> died? or finished?
<cliftonts> died
<oimon> raise a bug: too much latin in irc kills rhythmbox
<oimon> you could also disable plugins
<cliftonts> or I could just throw my laptop out of the window
<oimon> or use clementine ;)
<MooDoo> cliftonts: make sure i'm underneath when you do, i'm a great catcher
<cliftonts> MooDoo, is it worth the effort for a half cooked HP TX1000 with no keyboard and a broken USB port?
<MooDoo> cliftonts: maybe not then, got any macbook pro's?
<MooDoo> lol
<cliftonts> I had an acer but so did one of my customers so I butchered it for parts
<cliftonts> I've got a P1 IBM thinkpad you can have lol
<monsterwizard> :o
<monsterwizard> i'd buy it
<monsterwizard> 1,000 Yen ?
<cliftonts> It will only run damn small linux and won't access the net at all
<cliftonts> any good to you?
<cliftonts> I use it every day, it's perfect for stopping the HP from burning my legs as the graphics chipset slowly cooks the processor!
<oimon> my son keeps talking in a growly voice..i wonder if it's normal?
<cliftonts> By the way I'm inporting my music sub-folders one by one to see where the problem is
<cliftonts> how old is he?
<oimon> almost 2
<oimon> it's quite funny
<cliftonts> I was going to say perfectly normal for a teenager but that would be one early puberty! lol
<MooDoo> oimon: yeah my son did that :D lol
<oimon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmlxs-aaXm0&feature=youtu.be
<oimon> he recognises letters of the alphabet already
<MartijnVdS> oimon: cyrillic or latin alphabet?
<oimon> we're starting with latin :)
<MooDoo> my son was playing tuxpaint last night, he loved it
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: he's like 2 months right?
<DJones> oimon: Has he been listening to Louis Armstong singing Its a wonderful world?
<oimon> DJones: lol
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: no son is 3, daughter is 2 months
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: ETOOMANYKIDS ;)
<cliftonts> Got it
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: they are lovely, the issue is TOO SMALL HOUSE lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: :)
<cliftonts> The music is divided into sub-folders by alphabet, the problem is in V
<DJones> cliftonts: That'll be your Village People collection :)
<cliftonts> lol well I used to be a dj so its in there
<DJones> :)
<DJones> I've got a backup of my uncles mp3 collection in case he ever loses/breaks his laptop when he's running a disco etc, I'm sure in the 400Gb of that, there must be many worse things than Village People
<MooDoo> itsy teeny weeny yellow polka.......
<cliftonts> OMG!
<DJones> I know thats there
<DJones> Its near the Agadoo track
<MooDoo> push pineapple shake the tree :D
<DJones> On that note, /me  grinds coffee & puts the kettle on
<daubers> MooDoo: That was one of my first records (Timmy Mallet)
<MooDoo> lo
<MooDoo> lmy first ever LP was Ghost Busters and my first ever CD was New Order - Technique :D
<daubers> Wonder if it's on spotify
<MartijnVdS> you're OLD :P
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: i al :D
<MooDoo> am
<directhex> i never owned vinyl
<directhex> my first tape was... man, i don't remember at all
<MooDoo> my first ever tape was "airwolf for the spectrum" lol
<directhex> i remember playing a queen greatest hits tape a lot, but i think that was my dad's
<directhex> first cd i bought was probably the first garbage album
<MooDoo> directhex: oh god, blank covered one?
<directhex> hm?
<MooDoo> directhex: black sorry
<directhex> MooDoo, the queen tape? yeah
<MooDoo> directhex: gulp, i bought that first time round too
<cliftonts> get this guys
<cliftonts> I just had a call from a DJing agency
<cliftonts> they want me to do a christmas party from 7pm to 3:30am
<cliftonts> ouch!
<MooDoo> ouch
<MooDoo> i hope it's well paid
<cliftonts> and it's 80 miles away from home so we're looking at 4pm leave, 6:30am get back home
<MooDoo> ouch
<MooDoo> sacrifices you have to make eh!
<cliftonts> well, I have an allergy to turning down money
<directhex> loadsamoney?
<directhex> fill your set with an alternation between baroque classical, and chiptunes versions of aphex twin
<cliftonts> sounds fantastic
<cliftonts> however I think I'll stick to the same old crap, they seem to like it
<cliftonts> anyway, I must dash. there's far too much on my to do list.
<cliftonts> bye
<directhex> iiiiiiiiiiii want your soooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuullllllllllllll *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep*
<directhex> it'd be great
<Laney> oh god
<awilkins> Have discovered why Unity 2D has compositing enabled by default ; it sucks worse without it
<Laney> the lights just broke in the office
 * Laney festers in the gloom
<awilkins>  I like it when there's a power cut in the office.
<awilkins> The aircon goes off, don't have the constant white noise
<MooDoo> drives me nuts here too
<Laney> my office mate paid me a quid to phone up the helpdesk
<awilkins> "Have you tried turning them off, then on again?"
<Laney> they want to reboot the system
<Laney> but not now because it controls all of the lights on the floor and they think it might not turn on
<Laney> => darkness for the rest of the day
<MooDoo> Laney: i believe in a thing called love....ooooogh   ...  oh wrong darkness
<oimon> i find working in darkness except for the light of LCD screens to be relaxing
<DJones> I find that give me eye strain
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3`> another contentless ping... sigh...
<DJones> You're still here bigcalm
<bigcalm> Then I blame VM for being pants
<DJones> bigcalm: VM letting you stay conencted bad?
<bigcalm> DNS is pantsed
<bigcalm> Oh poo
<DJones> google dns was a bit dodgy earlier
<bigcalm> I'd left a VPN connection going
<bigcalm> That's what was causing everything take ages to load
<awilkins> bigcalm, Change the routes on the VPN connection?
<bigcalm> Just killed the VPN connection. Only needed it to upload 1 file to a client
<oimon> apparently there's a strike or something tomorrow - will it affect much?
<MooDoo> anything public services related i think
<MooDoo> schools, hospitals etc
<gord> can i strike? y'know, to play zelda
<bigcalm> GF is on holiday all week, she's not sure if she would or wouldn't have taken part tomorrow though
<MooDoo> people in hospitals or ambulance drivers shouldn't and if they do shame on them.
 * daubers has never agreed with strikes
<oimon> apparently i have to be in a union if i want to strike
<oimon> not that i want to, but it's a bit silly that you have to pay to be a member of a strike club
<oimon> in the olden days, unions paid the strikers wages..not any more
<daubers> It's just a trumpted up way of throwing your toys out the pram
<MooDoo> daubers: me neither.
<MooDoo> sack them and get people in who what to do the job
<oimon> i had a row with someone today for putting up strike posters
<daubers> There's enough people struggling to find work as it is at the moment, throwing your toys around because you think life sucks won't help anything
<daubers> if it was me running the company I'd liquidate it, start a new company and rehire the people who didn't strike
<daubers> I was really behing the Quantas guy when he grounded all the flights when his workers threatened to strike
<oimon> tube drivers are the worst though
<daubers> I'd automate the tube and sack the lot of them
<oimon> the strength of their union has meant that the wages are completely disproportionate
<shauno> It's an odd one.  I think it's something which should exist, but should not be exercised anywhere near this frequently
<shauno> it should be a last resort, not a bargaining chip
<oimon> guess how much it costs me to join the union?
<directhex> disproportionate compared to what?
<oimon> IT staff, lorry drivers, bus drivers, normal people
<shauno> isn't the DLR automated?  So we have the power, ca'n ..
<oimon> nurses, teachers
<oimon> Unions have secured a four-year deal which could see train drivers take home a total of Â£52,300 a year by 2015, an increase of Â£10,000
<MooDoo> how much?   bloody hell
<oimon> double the national average wage
<oimon> that's what happens when you give in to the unions repeatedly
<oimon> just been told that team members of mine are striking
<oimon> so muggins will be on his own tomorrow
<Seeker`> the thing is, the public sector kept on getting pay rises while a lot of the private sector workers had pay freezes
<directhex> does that mean they're overpaid, or that others are underpaid?
<oimon> directhex: tube drivers are ridiculously overpaid
<directhex> my sister in law's fiancee gets paid more than me as an assistant manager at tesco. i have a degree and 6 years' sysadmin experience
<gord> tbh, you would have to pay me a lot to be in those tubes all day
<daubers> gord: You might then be able to afford the ticket prices :p
<geekMePlease> Has anyone succeeded in installing Ubuntu from Firewire disk that is by booting from Firewire and then installing?
<geekMePlease> My usb-memory gets corrupted when I have tried to install Ubuntu from USB stick: new SSD drive with old x60 designed to usb2 with usb3 -memory stick
<geekMePlease> * same problem with usb2 -memory stick
<geekMePlease> * did the thing now for 7 different usb sticks
<geekMePlease> * seems that the problem is that the temperature gets too high which corrupts the data in the drive so stopping the installation
<geekMePlease> *s/drive/memory of the usb stick/
<geekMePlease> * x60 is not designed for SSD -drives
<Darael> Is there a USB hub available?  That or a USB extension lead ought to prevent the overheat.
<Darael> My understanding is that firewire ought to work also.
<geekMePlease> Darael: Yes, I need to get one such hub that converts the speed to USB2
<geekMePlease> * s/USB2/USB1/
<geekMePlease> Will also try the firewire installation to do things right
<Darael> Failing either of these methods, one could use the USB Creator with mini.iso, boot that, and remove the USB key after providing a wired network connection.
<Darael> Unetbootin would work just as well with mini.iso if need be.
<Darael> The minimal CD image downloads everything except a minimal installer from the network, y'see, so once it's in memory problems with the media ought not to be a problem.
<geekMePlease> Darael: Thank you for pointing out that!
<geekMePlease> Darael: I will try the mini iso now.
<geekMePlease> * "Make Startup up disk" -program not accepting my mini.iso -image. How to make a starup disk with the given iso?
<geekMePlease> * should I mount the image before? - In my opinion, no
<geekMePlease> ok, will read the manuals now thoroughly
<geekMePlease> Is there any iso -image burner to usb -stick for Ubuntu?
<geekMePlease> * the manuals do not discuss the case
<geekMePlease> * seems to correct answer here for 7.10: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=909512
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKBpYwuk1Uw
<Darael> geekMePlease: Putting an ISO on a USB-stick can be achieved with the USB Creator, if it's an Ubuntu image (this utility is preinstalled) or with UNetbootin (for pretty much any /other/ distro)
<davmor2> popey: hahahahaha NICE!
<Darael> popey: I second the opinion of davmor2.
<geekMePlease> Darael: USB Creator does not regognize my iso -image when trying to create the thing.
<Darael> geekMePlease: Unetbootin will do the trick, then.  It was in the repositories, last time I checked.
<AlanBell> popey: wow!
<geekMePlease> Darael: Thank you! Unetbootin working.
<czajkowski> popey: briilliant
<czajkowski> I'd swear they're flashing purple tonight in millbank
<matti> czajkowski: ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: what drugs are you taking I want some :P
<czajkowski> there is a line going around one level of millbank in purple
 * AlanBell wonders what exactly that would do to davmor2 
<davmor2> AlanBell: possibly make me sane I don't which is more worrying ;)
<matti> Millbank?
<davmor2> could me
<davmor2> be
<AlanBell> matti: millbank tower in London, where canonical HQ is
<davmor2> matti: Millbank Tower home of canonical
<matti> Ah.
<shauno> I thought their home was on the isle of mann? or am I out of date
<matti> There is a Tower in Cabary Wharf
<popey> home is where the office is
<davmor2> shauno: Well out of date
<matti> Which has sifferent colours too
<popey> we have offices all over the place, HQ is considered London
<matti> As a line on it
<czajkowski> there is a purple band though of light
<czajkowski> so if someone is in milbank it looks really pretty from the distance
<AlanBell> matti: no, not there, way upstream
<diplo> evening all
<diplo> Laney / MooDoo : My guide for the evening has cancelled on me, can you recommend a good place for food / drink in centre of town ?
<matti> ;)
<matti> AlanBell: ;(
<matti> Ops.
<matti> AlanBell: ;)
<matti> I fail on touch acreens.
<matti> ;)
<AlanBell> in other news, one last place for the christmas meal still
<AlanBell> I will contact the venue and give up the place soon if nobody wants it
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<diplo> Really debated coming, just not sure I can warrant the costs to get there :/
<geekMePlease> I have an apparent overheating problem in installing ubuntu, since I get input/output error in installing the drive to OCZ 3 Agility SSD
<geekMePlease> * the data should not get corrupted in my USB stick anymore, since I am using Ubuntu mini iso
<geekMePlease> Is there any way to install ubuntu with lower speeds such that my system does not heat up
<geekMePlease> ok, will look for cooling pads in DX
<AlanBell> 2 tooth fairy visits tonight
<AlanBell> intense debate on whether one fairy can do a double visit or whether two separate faries would be required
<czajkowski> awww
<davmor2> AlanBell: just point out there is only one tooth fairy hence the name ;)
<shauno> for "lifting capacity of a fairy", wolfram alpha offers a scrabble score of 17.  The internet fails me this time.
<AlanBell> they have established that pound coins weigh more than teeth, so the payload on the outbound trip is the important factor
<shauno> oh even worse, it's only scored the word 'capacity'.  *shakes fist*
<DJones> AlanBell: Austerity measures, its not Â£1 coins now, only 5p's
<AlanBell> DJones: and in this globalised economy we have to be mindful of the competitive impact of overseas fairies
<davmor2> DJones: you know kids can kill quicker than predators in the wild right ;)
<shauno> so outsourced fairies delivering rupees?
<shauno> hm, my googling is quickly leading me to comparisons of african vs european swallows.  I think I'll admit defeat on this one
<AlanBell> shauno: did you find out the airspeed of an unladen fairy?
<daubers> african or european?
<Daviey> AlanBell: max or efficient airspeed?
<AlanBell> flat out
<czajkowski> Daviey: something up with the uk etherpad?
<Daviey> czajkowski: ah yes
<Daviey> czajkowski: should be back
<czajkowski> thank you
<MarquessDeBonBon> Polski?
<Daviey> AlanBell: then just read the label that states VNE = foo :)
<ikonia> would one of you UK users try to hit this site and click the calander app, does it pop up (any browser is a fine test)
<ikonia> http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/#
<ikonia> trying to book some tickets and change the date with the calander application
<czajkowski> ikonia: works fine in ff no problem
<czajkowski> ikonia: works fine in chrome also
<ikonia> how odd, thank you
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/UK-government-announces-open-data-initiative-1387087.html
<Azelphur> My parents TV broke, they sent it back and it got lost in the post so they got a full cash refund on the original price for the ~2 year old telly, win :D
<jacobw> excellent :)
<AlanBell> night all o/
<Laney> oh forest, oh dear dear dear forest
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-30
<Azelphur> hmm, trying to build the latest version of ZNC, when I run znc-buildmod it says that it can't find znc.h but /usr/include/znc/znc.h exists. Any ideas?
<czajkowski> aloha
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<danfish> morning
<brobostigon> morning danfish
<danfish> a quick test for you all http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15952227
<danfish> and can anyone spot the dud question?
<danfish> brobostigon: o/
<brobostigon> danfish: o/
<popey> danfish: gnu/wysiwyg
<AlanBell> I clicked pizza!
<MooDoo> wow 7 out of 7
<gord> heh, "7 questions on computer programs" "The following Hollywood figures starred in films featuring computer programmers - but which did not play the computer whiz?" - made me giggle
<MooDoo> no idea why i put wow :)
<MooDoo> yeah got it right though :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<daubers> urgh, considering abondoning twitter today
<MooDoo> daubers: bored?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 6/7
<daubers> MooDoo: No, people supporting action I really don't agree with
<TheOpenSourcerer> Missed out on John Travolta -
<MooDoo> daubers: just block them
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: I got pizza/lettuce wrong
<oimon> i'm glad "computer whizz kid" has fallen out of popular usage
<daubers> MooDoo: That reduces my twitter stream by nearly 2/3's at the moment :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh Twitter! Time to upset some lefties I think :-)
<oimon> although it's sometimes used by people who are about to ask me to fix their pc
 * daubers would get Queeny to revoke the "no sacking striking workers" law and sack the lot of them, or liquidate the civil service, start a new one and hire the people who didn't strike
<MartijnVdS> daubers++
<gordonjcp> really?
<bigcalm> !politics
<lubotu3`> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<daubers> Yup, they complain about the givernment being bullies, but striking is just another form of bullying
<daubers> but that's enough of that
<MartijnVdS> "We're not FRANCE"
<MooDoo> #ubuntu-uk-politics :)
<gordonjcp> daubers: I think you're wrong, but this isn't the time or the place ;-)
 * oimon is the only one in the office so far
<oimon> slackers
<gordonjcp> I'm glad the council are on strike, means I don't have to spend the day traipsing around their roads department yard testing the radios in the gritters
<gordonjcp> now I can do it on Saturday at ridiculous OT rates
<hoover> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<dogmatic69> morning o/
<imexil> Morning.
<imexil> However started taking over to write the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter does not care one bit that mark up format should also be readable in source. That used to be different :(
<imexil> That's Whoever ^ :-/
<danfish> popey: that's what I thought
<JamesTait> Hello, hello! :)
<dogmatic69> o/
<dwatkins> mornin folks
<MooDoo> morning dwatkins how are you on this fine day?
<AlanBell> imexil: want to join #ubuntu-news and explain it there?
<dwatkins> hi MooDoo, I'm good thanks, I trust you are also well
<dwatkins> I'm currently wishing I hadn't had that 2nd beer last night, as I tipped it on my laptop and now face an expensive repair, however.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: yes i'm fine, and i purchased a gigabit switch for home which has made it a little faster not a lot :D
<MooDoo> bummber on the laptop front
<dwatkins> I have a gigabit switch, gut I suspect my PS3 doesn't have a fast ethernet port ;)
<dwatkins> *but
<MooDoo> well i'm using VMWARE on my servers so i can't confirm they are running at 1000 Full duplex like my nas is
<dwatkins> overheads?
<MooDoo> ?
<MooDoo> shrug
<dwatkins> sorry, I mean "is that because of the overheads incurred by running inside a virtual host?"
<MooDoo> dwatkins: perhaps not sure, when i remove vmware i'll be able to run nativly on the hardware so i'll see
<dwatkins> I've been told that ESXI is pretty close to running on the bare metal, but I guess if you have several guests they can step on each other's toes.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: i'm running esxi but it's an older version as my home server isn't 64bit
<oimon> dwatkins: why does runnign vmware mean you can't verify 1000Mb?
<dwatkins> oimon: I don't know, but I suspect there will be some overhead of the virtual machine not connecting directly to the hardware
<MooDoo> oimon: ethtool doesn't show anything on debian servers, the only way i can tell is by doing a data transfer unless the client tells me
<MooDoo> which admittedly i've not looked at :D
<oimon> the vmware client should tell about the esxi server details
<MooDoo> i'll have a looksee....
<oimon> choose host, configuration, network adapters
<MooDoo> yeah just looking now
<MooDoo> yay 1000 full :D
<oimon> the only reason i need windows servers in my org is because of vmware -...dumb eh?
<oimon> when all my servers are linux
<MooDoo> i'm only using vmware ware as i'm a cheat and use windows for a mail server :)
<MartijnVdS> wut
<MooDoo> sorry i'm a low life
<oimon> don't come crying to us when it breaks :)
<MooDoo> oimon: well it has't in the 8 months it's been running :D lol
<KrisDouglas> VMWare runs on Linux O.o
<MooDoo> KrisDouglas: i'm running esxi which runs on bare bones hardware
<KrisDouglas> Oh thats kay then
<KrisDouglas> :P
<oimon> esxi is still linux kernel though
<MooDoo> KrisDouglas: it's just a windows server i'm running in a vm :)
<MooDoo> yeah RH :)
<KrisDouglas> Indeed. I use XenCenter
<oimon> i think it's pronounced centos :)
<KrisDouglas> Basically the same but different
<MooDoo> ijust VMWARE as i'm familiar with it, just need to get a 64bit processor so i can use the latest version
<oimon> i just went to wind up the office liberal who is supporting the strikes but not striking (lol)
<BigRedS> haha
<czajkowski> Good morning lovelies how are we all today ?
<bigcalm> Wishing for the weekend
<oimon> doing the work of 5 people and feeling grrrr
<popey> GREAT
<gord> i was annoyed, but now i got some pepsi and cranked up the jpop. so now i'm also GREAT
<czajkowski> this is good to hear
<oimon> looks for some good music to crank up
<czajkowski> fire starter
<czajkowski> some red hot chilli peppers
<czajkowski> or thunderstuck is what I've on now
<oimon> i have phil and don by camera obscura "i'll take the slack for you"...very apt
<gord> what? no. always sledgehammer
<czajkowski> gord: what. no. never
<gord> you miss, have no soul
 * gord cranks up the sledgehammer even further in protest
<czajkowski> gord: it's not the first time I've been told that :p
<gord> http://www.last.fm/user/gordmoo - see
 * czajkowski tickles davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: How many times I'm not ticklish
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski will never learn
<Laney> Your musical compatibility with gordmoo is Low
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know
<czajkowski> I woke the sleeping beast
<MooDoo> czajkowski: song reference or you calling davmor2 a beast?
<czajkowski> the latter of course
<czajkowski> jesh!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you sound perky this morning :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: I want to know how you know that :P
<czajkowski> :)
<gord> Laney, you obviously listen to terrible music
<Laney> well
<Laney> I did notice this Your musical compatibility with popeydc is Super
<Laney> dunno what that says â¦
<popey> It says we both like Glee I think.
<Laney> Music you have in common includes Cast, Catatonia, James, Shed Seven and The Bluetones.
<Laney> good list tbh
<oimon> do men like glee?
<gord> my compatibility is low with *every* single person on my friends list. this is what working from home does to you. you have no musical shame
<Laney> man I've had my last account for a long time
<Laney> 10 Oct 2004
<MooDoo> oimon: /me shamefully admits to liking glee
<s-fox> Hello.
<MooDoo> morning
<s-fox> o/
<s-fox> How are you?
<Laney> guten morgen
<MooDoo> s-fox: tired but ok thanks :D
<s-fox> Hallo Laney
<popey> ps. I don't like glee
 * MooDoo hangs his head in shame
<Laney> never seen it
<Laney> but I want to!
<s-fox> What is glee?
<s-fox> Film?
<MooDoo> s-fox: america program about a glee club, lots of show tunes
<MooDoo> based in a high school
<gord> i saw some of glee on a plane once, you should be ashamed.
 * s-fox is going to avoid
 * MooDoo goes and sits on the #naughtystop
 * Laney wibbles
<Laney> MooDoo: coming down your end later to give blood
<Laney> join me :P
<MooDoo> Laney: have fun, and i'm not allowed
<Laney> too cool
<MooDoo> Laney: i carry a medical green card for a blood issue i have
<danfish> wow - my council has put a webcam on the road leading up to the local tip so you can see how crowded it is http://www.sutton.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=698
<Laney> sorry sir your blood is too rock and roll
 * danfish has spent much time in queues there before
<bigcalm> danfish: site is a little broken
<bigcalm> It loads the mobile version by default and the link to the desktop site offers a download instead
<danfish> bigcalm: weird, loads fine here in Chrome
<bigcalm> FireFox here
<gord> hehe same for me
<gord> nice website sutton ;)
<gord> i pressed the little sad face to indicate i do not rate the service highly
<danfish> gord: I think we got it!
<bigcalm> Hehe
<danfish> gord: the webmaster must be on strike today ;)
<gord> i have always loved that phrasing, "webmaster". its like, the first guy who was in charge of a website just said screw it, this is a new kind of job, i'm naming it whatever the hell i want
<gord> i want to be a programming dragoon
<awilkins> Python Wrangler
<awilkins> Java Metabarista
<popey> HTTP Facilitator
<oimon> webmasters should get a hooded robe
<MartijnVdS> Perl Poets?
<Laney> first christmas album of the year
<Laney> it's not too early is it?
<awilkins> And a wizards hat. http://bash.org/?104383
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: \o/ bloodninja
<Myrtti> ohai
<bigcalm> Hi Myrtti, are you having a good day? :)
<Myrtti> bigcalm: could be better, could be worse
<Myrtti> all in all so far I think the situation balances more to the good side
<bigcalm> So you're not feeling the power of the dark side
<bigcalm> There is still good in you, I can feel it
<Myrtti> I wouldn't be so sure about it
 * awilkins has turned to the "Meh" side.
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: That's the best side.
<awilkins> Apathy, demotivation, mediocrity, the path to the "Meh" side are they.
<awilkins> Once you turn down the "Meh" path, forever will you not give a Flying Monkey.
<MartijnVdS> Exactly. It's a great stress reliever
 * awilkins believes that "Who Gives a Flying Monkey" magazine could be a successful publication
<Myrtti> yeah well
<oimon> who would give a flying monkey to actually buy it?
<awilkins> It would lampoon and ridicule all the things that people consider so important.
<awilkins> Like I'm a Celebrity, X-Factor, etc
<davmor2> awilkins: Well that's easy to answer though the Wicked Witch of the West sent out the flying monkeys
<Myrtti> I draw enourmous amounts of energy from the fact that a person who made my life a living hell for several years has broken up with their partner and now needs sleeping pills to sleep at night. It gives perspective that even if my life sucks in almost every parts, atleast I still can get sleep (although my sleeping cycle has gone wonky) and I've got people who love and support me
<Myrtti> so I don't know if this is really "not being on the dark side" or "meh"
<Myrtti> in other news, Stephen Fry is marvelous
<awilkins> Yus
 * MartijnVdS just saw his movember 'stache
<Myrtti> I'm listening to Harry Potter and I still can't quite believe that he read all the roles
<oimon> at risk of being serious for a moment, unforgiveness towards other people generally hurts the person harbouring unforgiveness
<Myrtti> must've cheated somewhere
<awilkins> Used digital pitch shifting, maybe
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: read (listen to) his autobiographies as well
<Myrtti> oimon: I've forgiven him. It's the contrasts in our lives that hilight what parts I still have to be happy about
<awilkins> I try to do a good job reading Harry Potter to my daughter. I found my voice breaking doing the first scene with Hagrid in the Leaky Cauldron.
<dogmatic69> im trying to use convert -resize to resize images. I would like to make the biggest size 1000px for example. anyone have an idea how to do this?
<dogmatic69> is that maybe the behavior by default?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: if you specify "1000x" it'll make it 1000 pixels wide
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: "x1000" for 1000 high
<MartijnVdS> (the other one will be calculated based on aspect ratio etc.
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: ah, just seen maybe 1000x1000 will maintain aspect and make one side 1000
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no, that'll resize the pic to 1000x1000 :)
<davmor2> hey MooDoo how did you get on with DigiKam?
<Myrtti> I don't really know what to do with my photos now
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: shotwell?
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: print them?
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: make a book out of them?
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: yeah I had them in that in my old laptop, but the whole /home of that is now on a backup external disk since I handed over the laptop after 'shred -vn 7'ing it
<Myrtti> and I can't decide which of the Ubuntu devices I'll use as my primary in the future
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> !rolldice
<MartijnVdS> !info rolldice
<lubotu3`> rolldice (source: rolldice): A virtual dice roller. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.10-5 (natty), package size 11 kB, installed size 72 kB
<Myrtti> [13:36] < Myrtti> @random exopc latitude
<Myrtti> [13:36] < ubottu> latitude
<awilkins> Encrypt them all on a TrueCrypt partition on a USB thumb, print the key out as a giant QR code, perforate it to be torn into sections, print off a sign inviting people to take sections of the key to your happy memories, mount it on a board in a gallery and call it art.
<Myrtti> *shrug*
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: do you by chance know the difference between -resize and -adaptive-resize in convert?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: adaptive-resize might be a "smart resize" of some kind
<dogmatic69> wonder what data-dependent triangulation would be
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/resize/#adaptive-resize
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: with picture examples!
<dogmatic69> ye, im on there
<dogmatic69> really o.o
<davmor2> MooDoo: Oi answer me muppet boy don't pretend to be busy ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: sorry mate, what was the question
<Myrtti> erh
<Myrtti> "Problem with Player Engine" "SIGILL"
<Myrtti> lolhelp?
<Myrtti> I didn't know there was a SIGILL :-D
<MartijnVdS> SIGILL = Illegal instruction
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIGILL
<davmor2> MooDoo: How did you get on with DigiKam?
<awilkins> dogmatic69, Looks like 1000x1000 is actually what you want from the description
<Myrtti> ah yes, my browser is still in a State
<dogmatic69> awilkins: ye, im trying that one out now
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes it's good thanks :D
<awilkins> dogmatic69, 1000x1000!  would force the image to 1000x1000 and ignore ratio
<dogmatic69> this convert ~= photoshop via terminal :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: does it cover everything you needed then?
<MartijnVdS> cool eh :)
<awilkins> Counter intuitive but they made the least complex option the least destructive ~ mixed feelings about that, violates principle of least surprise
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes think so, will need a longer play.
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'll expect to see the results appearing on FB anytime then yes ;)
<gord> really wish you could order google by date
<awilkins> gord, you can restrict by date, is that good enough?
<gord> awilkins, not really ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes sir :D
<dogmatic69> ok, running the convert command from php its creating folders. if i run the exact command that is done in php (always with full paths) it creates a resized image
<dogmatic69> any reason for the difference?
<davmor2> gord: don't you just click on the date?
<gord> davmor2, what date?
<gord> basically i'm saying that if i'm googling for help with software X, i want the latest results not the results that might be dealing with a slightly older version
<davmor2> gord: yeah I forgot I use the desktop email client to pull it in I forgot that the web front end doesn't have a date field
<gord> davmor2, pull what in? google search results? o_O
<davmor2> gord: no to pull in the email from google
<gord> davmor2, not talking about email at all ;)
<dogmatic69> got it working, just had to remove the dumb code i wrote :/
<davmor2> so I use thunderbirds date field I forgot that gmail didn't have it
<oimon> observation of the day: people who tend to describe themselves as geeks, usually aren't.
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<oimon> hello sir
<brobostigon> hello oimon
 * oimon is about to install mint 12
<MooDoo> oimon: don't like it?  i've only played with 11
<oimon> MooDoo: huh?
<oimon> about to find out
<MooDoo> oimon: sorry i read that as uninstall
<MooDoo> wow i need my head testing today
 * brobostigon prods MooDoo's head with electrodes. :)
<oimon> for a start, it has the window list panel which is missing from gnome 3 (making it unusable)
<oimon> it's also flippin' fast
<MooDoo> yeah very
 * brobostigon 's install of debian sid + experimental with gnome3 standard, also flies.
<davmor2> oimon: people who attend Geeks Anonymous tend to be the real deal ;)
<oimon> aka LUGS?
<davmor2> oimon: I was thinking more UDS, Pycon etc but yeah Lugs will cover it too :)
<oimon> mint makes me sad about the direction ubuntu is taking :(
<popey> I'd like to see where mint is in a year from now
<oimon> the software manager sucks compared to ubuntu though
<popey> whether they can keep the momentum up for mate and mgde or whatever its called
<popey> yeah, and their update manager doesn't install security updates by default which is bordering on _insane_
<oimon> orly?
<oimon> what does it do?
<popey> recommends you dont install them
<popey> because they are '4' or '5' in their update manager
<popey> i.e. untested against Mint by them
<popey> I am talking about upstream (i.e. ubuntu) security updates
<oimon> what else did you like/unlike about mint?
<popey> I dont like the direction
<popey> "I don't like unity so lets ressurect something that upstream have said is dead" (GNOME 2.X)
<oimon> it looks like gnome3 with extras to me
<popey> It's a distro for people who don't like change, but like change enough that they switched from Windows to Linux.
 * popey goes to find food
<oimon> i'd think there's many who would like gnome3 if it was usable
<oimon> but gnome seems to be run by a monkey circus
<popey> its new, people are quick to say new stuff is broken
<popey> remember kde 4?
<popey> now look at it
<popey> *ahem*
<oimon> still broken?
<popey> no idea, i dont use it
<popey> but i hear it's as stable as any other desktop
<popey> but unity and gnome 3 are in the same place kde 4 was after the rewrite
<popey> unity (and I guess GNOME 3) are long term projects. People need to grow some patience and figure that this is a long game.
<oimon> i remember that stock gnome2 was rubbish and canonical made it better
<popey> i fully expect we will lose some people on that journey, and some might come back (quietly, they wont shout as loud as they are now they're leaving)
<oimon> stock gnome 3 is also rubbish and needs shell extensions or whatever to make it ok. on edistro needs to step up and do it
<popey> i dont believe we should strive to keep every single user, that way lies madness
<popey> we should build a better desktop and people will use it as a result.
<popey> anyway, lunch!
 * oimon isn't so proud that he won't use unity if it becomes better for power users
 * oimon goes to find a pasty
<dwatkins> a patsy?
<MooDoo> p a s t y  :)
<directhex> unity has terrible focus bugs
<directhex> i think they're mainly compiz bugs
<directhex> sick of accidentally closing the wrong app, because the appmenu close button is for a different window to the current in-front fullscreen window
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Also, try starting apps using alt + f2 and typing fast
<MartijnVdS> directhex: you'll open the previous app
<directhex> MartijnVdS, alt-f2 is for people who don't use Do
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I am the 99%
<directhex> alt-f2 is broken here. dunno why
<oimon> do, or do not. ther is no try
<oimon> popey: i was using MGSE, which there is surely a future for
<oimon> had been confused by people saying mint12 is mate, then i realised it appears as a lightdm session option (livecd is MGSE by default)
<popey> o_O
<popey> -!- popey is now known as uk_39_m
<MartijnVdS> you're OLD
<popey> thanks
<DJones> MartijnVdS: He may be old, but he's still younger than me :)
<dwatkins>  /me resists the temptation to rename himself to Edinburgh_Dominic
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Unpossible!
 * oimon wonders why so many people have tattoos of popey
 * popey expects oimon wanted an extra e there
<oimon> nah..they look more like popey
<oimon> if you're gonna get an elvis tattoo, then make sure the artist can draw
<oimon> s/elvis//
<oimon> zombie elvis is quite popular too
<MartijnVdS> oimon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPE3p4kLgL8 ?
<oimon> how does weird al make a living? royalties? no one would actaully buy joke music surely
<popey> he sells records
<gord> why not?
<oimon> i discovered a replacement for distrowatch: check the number of subscribers on a subreddit : ubuntu 64,000 vs mint 12,000
<gord> i don't like weird al, but i have some flight of the conchords albums
<oimon> i never expected that people would listen to parody music more than once
<oimon> unless you're 16 and on a coach trip
<gord> i sometimes re-watch comedy based tv shows too, crazy
<shauno> 'another one rides the bus' is pretty much mandantory for every single encounter with public transport
 * oimon checks youtube
<shauno> including / especially ryanair
<oimon> this is quite impressive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRJILK3NxSM
<directhex> what's special about it?
<directhex> weird al has been making polka medleys since 1983
<oimon> think i've stumbled on the weird al fan club
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_%22Weird_Al%22_Yankovic_polka_medleys
<smittix> Hi all
<gord> heh, amazon sent me an email apologising for the delay in sending my goods. its cool amazon, it was an rc cable i ordered at like 7pm last night, it didn't have to be here 9am this morning ;)
<smittix> Anyone know why access my site via www doesnt work but leaving it out does?
<smittix> Going to www.nixaddict.com shows the default apache page leaving the www out goes to the right place :/
<AlanBell> smittix: need an alias in your apache site config
<smittix> AlanBell: The alias is there already
<AlanBell> it is wrong then :)
<AlanBell> or the default is wrong
<MooDoo> smittix: pastebin the conf
<smittix> http://pastebin.com/ipyrWeY7
<s-fox> smittix,  Started following on twitter :)
<smittix> s-fox: Huh?
<MooDoo> smittix: restarted apache?
<s-fox> I just checked otu your site and saw the feed ;-)  looking at your site config
<s-fox> +1 MooDoo
<smittix> MooDoo: Yeah
<s-fox> hmm
<MooDoo> smittix: what do the logs say? anything obvious?
<AlanBell> another site config stealing the default?
<smittix> atm there is only one site
<MattJ> gord, I ordered something from Amazon once and got it 11 months later :)
<smittix> MooDoo: No nothing obvious. got me stumped for sure
<smittix> Domain has www and @ A records
<MooDoo> smittix: hmmmm yeah...just having a thing
<MooDoo> think
<MooDoo> i had this issue myself once can't remember how i fixed it
<oimon> MattJ: how come?
<AlanBell> smittix: do you have /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/000-default
<MattJ> oimon, it was just some hard to source book, that they thought they had in stock, but hadn't
<oimon> did you still want it a year later?
<MattJ> Yep :)
<BigRedS> smittix: apache2 -S   is pretty good for working out why requests hit the vhosts they do
<MattJ> They sent me an email every couple of months saying they were still working on it, but I could cancel at any time
<smittix> AlanBell: Yeah that is there.
<AlanBell> smittix: that would be processed first and I think it is stealing your www hits
<smittix> AlanBell: Hmm did a a2dissite default. Seemed to fix it.
<smittix> Looks like something is going on though as now when you go to www.nixaddict.com it redirects to nixaddict.com and removes the www.
<smittix> weird
<kirrus> smittix: wordpress?
<smittix> kirrus: Yarr
<kirrus> it redirects to the configured site url
<smittix> Yeah as soon as you said wordpress I realised and changed it.
<smittix> ta
<MooDoo> :D
<kirrus> :)
<smittix> Need to find out what the default site was doing though.
<oimon> about the coolest video about harmonics and sand you could see http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Oz53w_k_j_A#!
<Azelphur> funky
<oimon> too bad the tl;dr generation won't get past 10 seconds
<Azelphur> oimon: I'm tl;dr generation I got all the way through it
<oimon> maybe tl;dr doesn't work for youtube :)
<oimon> I must say i've had a productive day today
<Azelphur> oimon: it does work, I think tl;dr is a good thing tbh :P
<oimon> how? the people that say tl;dr also play skyrim for 5hrs without stopping
<dogmatic69> would it be possible to calculate the width of some text in terminal?
<Azelphur> oimon: because it facilitates people trying to get their point across in a fast manner
<sagaci> popey, was that reference to not using xchat for years was because you use the xchat-gnome package instead?
<awilkins> dogmatic69, Yes, because terminals tend to use monospaced fonts so you just count the chars and multiply?
<dogmatic69> awilkins: forgot to mention ttf's
<sagaci> because xchat-gnome is translatable via launchpad so I'll just use the -gnome version instead to get the proper translations and not have to worry about the translations syncing for months or years on end
<popey> que?
<bigcalm> ue
<oimon> how can i find g+ sparks?
<iclebyte> any one familiar with isc-dhcpd? Is there are way to make it log the value of the agent.remote-id value from an incomming DHCPDISCOVER ?
<awilkins> dogmatic69, 2D drawing toolkits have methods to measure text in given font sizes, not sure how to do it in terminal (unless you write an app that does it and call it from terminal)
<dogmatic69> ye, ill try a few things.
<dogmatic69> looks like rendering said text with something like phpgd and then getting the size of the image
<oimon> sparks no longer appears in g+, am i right?
<gord> dogmatic69, pango has a method for doing that, so just execute pango inside python or something
<dogmatic69> where are fonts stored on ubuntu?
<MooDoo> /usr/share/fonts or /usr/local/share/fonts?
<MooDoo> gedit /etc/fonts/fonts.conf
<MooDoo> i think
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: was i right?
<oimon> just noticed a 10mb half-duplex port on the network...belongs to an mac address of an apple device
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: found some in /usr/share/fonts
<dogmatic69> thanks
<MooDoo> no worries
<MooDoo> oimon: gods damit ;)
<awilkins> I feel dreadful. I'm incubating some kind of viral horror.
<danfish> awilkins: ewww. Don't spread it in here :P
<danfish> I've got a couple of users attached to a machine using X-forwarding. Is there any way I can pop a message up on their screens to the effect of "Don't switch off now"?
<awilkins> notify-send ?
<bigcalm> That's cool
<bigcalm> I just sent myself a foo bar notification
<danfish> tx I'l give it a whirl
<awilkins> Doesn't seem to work from another user session
<oimon> someone remind me which is the more useful windows server licensing mode? server or device?
<daubers> oimon: The bin?
<oimon> s/more useful/less restrictive
<awilkins> danfish, Found a script that supposedly sends to all sessions but so far has problems
<AlanBell> does write(1) link to libnotify I wonder?
<oimon> tomboy sure does beat trawling a pile of post it notes
<danfish> awilkins: tx again. I may have stumbled over a solution - they're running via NX sessions and apparently "nxserver --broadcast MESSAGE" is supposed to do something
<awilkins> danfish, AlanBell : http://pastebin.com/tqmWauiP  : This works but needs a small edit (sessionarray variable) and doesn't have the same usage as notify-send
<AlanBell> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/en/man1/write.1posix.html
<danfish> mind you there's someone using straight X-forwarding fo awilkins script's prob best
<awilkins> And the other downer to notify-send is that the messages are transient and don't go in a message queue that you can review easily from Unity / GNOME AFAICT
<danfish> ah, heh, that user would be me
<awilkins> However, much amusement ensuing from rude popup messages.
<AlanBell> someone should do a write-> libnotify gateway
<awilkins> danfish, Healthcare related NX servers on Ubuntu?
<danfish> awilkins: of course!
<danfish> AlanBell: well volunteered that man :)
<danfish> awilkins: nah - trialing thinstation -> NX sessions as a bit of an experiment using ancient hardware on the client end
<awilkins> danfish, They are testing out VDI on us. You have to justify why you don't want it if you get a new machine around here.
<awilkins> danfish, In general, I think were are probably the worst user group ever to try out VDI on. We all have peculiar needs.
<awilkins> The developers are all holding out their laptop upgrades for the new 17" TurboNutter workstation class laptops
<awilkins> 8GB of RAM. Quadro GPU. 1920x1080 screen.
<awilkins> Quad core CPU
<danfish> awilkins: hmmm, used citrix at DoH 10 years ago. Horrible
<awilkins> Yeah, remember having to adapt an old VB3 application to Citrix
<awilkins> Or debug it, at least
<awilkins> Which was extra joyful. It was written in the days when you had C:\ and that was the end of it
<danfish> do those TurboNutter laptops come with free osteopathy sessions?
<awilkins> danfish, Probably not
<awilkins> danfish, The extra silly bit is that we may need 2 laptops
<awilkins> One for normal use, one for developing/testing a particular application that needs a 64-bit machine
<awilkins> ie - 64-bits including the OS
<danfish> that's daft
<awilkins> NHS needs to pull head from arse and get with the 64-bit era
<popey> AlanBell: had a play with live-build before?
<awilkins> Because we have no approved 64-bit OS build we'd have to keep the 64-bit machine in our DMZ
<awilkins> And thus unable to access any internal server resources, what joy
<danfish> hmm, quite
<awilkins> Is it wrong that I'm lurking in the #ubuntuone channel because I put a job application in for a post as an Ubuntu One dev?
<MooDoo> awilkins: lurking is wrong.
<MooDoo> you should be partaking :)
<MooDoo> making yourslef look good :D
<awilkins> Yeah, probably.
<awilkins> Poll : do you hate it when job adverts don't indicate a salary?
<popey> awilkins: how did you hear about the job?
<awilkins> popey, Canonical jobs page
<popey> ah
<popey> not sent there by someone's G+ of FB post? âº
<awilkins> Nope
<popey> k
<oimon> i never know whether canonical hiring phase is fixed or ongoing
<oimon> they advertise for certain roles but don't have close date
<awilkins> Sent there by having to work on horrific awful doomed software project
<MooDoo> awilkins: it took a few days for me to get a "thanks but no thanks" from them :D
<awilkins> MooDoo, Yeah, I got one of those before for another post (on Bazaar team)
<MooDoo> pah!
<popey> oimon: they close when people are hired
<oimon> :P
<popey> or if the job is withdrawn (less often)
 * popey is hiring at the moment
<awilkins> Minor ctrl-W malfunction
<MooDoo> engineering right popey ?
<popey> ya
<awilkins> I actually did hang and talk in #bzr for a long while when I was working on a project using it here
<oimon> WFH or irl?
<awilkins> (using it because I introduced it because I got sick of waiting for SVN to do checkouts in 12 minutes)
<awilkins> IRL
<MooDoo> i want to work in jono's team :D they party hard er er cough work hard :)
<popey> they work _very_ hard
<Laney> bzr checkouts are fast? </troll>
<awilkins> http://www.datadictionary.nhs.uk/  ; The model that this content is constructed from is version controlled using Bazaar
 * Laney flees
 * popey flows
 * oimon runs for the train
<awilkins> bzr operations are an order of magnitude faster than svn
<awilkins> Crap, train
 * awilkins starts shutting down
<oimon> finally remembered to update my mp3 with linux podcasts
<MooDoo> popey: i was in their channel for their meeting yesterday, jono...ok i've done this this this this this this this this monday, and this this this thist tuesday etc etc and the whole team was like it :D
<Laney> aren't they advertising for someone?
<MooDoo> yes i think they have interviews soon
<Laney> on it?
<oimon> good to hear the cost of purchasing ubuntu is well spent :)
<AlanBell> popey: no, not played with live-build, what is it?
<popey> tool for building custom ISO images
<popey> tis fun
 * daubers finally downlaods the latest uupc
<popey> yay
<popey> i listened to that on the way to work today
<popey> which reminds me I need to do the quiz for next week
<awilkins> So, train is packed. Bleeding Christmas shopping season. Dear shoppers - do not travel in commuter hours.
<daubers> Heh, I'm in the Hackspace this evening, so thought it would be good background stuff for that :)
<bigcalm> Off to Ikea tonight. Wondering how bad it will be mid-week after work hours (so glad they are open until 10pm)
 * Laney is off to buy home brewing kit
<MooDoo> bigcalm: who cares, hotdogs :)
<Laney> ex ci ti ng
<MooDoo> Laney: bullwell?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: i.e. arduino for the fermentation fridge? :)
<Laney> nah, too much effort, wilkos
<bigcalm> MooDoo: thinking about the meatballs actually ;)
<Laney> MartijnVdS: that would be exciting!
<MooDoo> Laney: i get mine from there :)
<Laney> yeah?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: http://www.elcojacobs.com/uberfridge/
<MooDoo> bigcalm: coooooooooooooooor 20 :)
<bigcalm> And free refill hot drinks
<MooDoo> Laney: yeah barrel, mashing bucket, etc etc
<danfish> MartijnVdS: that's one good setup :)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I will probably be silly and order the large portion. Which is far too many really
<MartijnVdS> danfish: I'll probably be building that with/for my brothers
<Laney> the basic stuff should be ok from wilkos
<Laney> (i hope...)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i normally do with fries :) and then have a coulple of hotdogs on way out
<MooDoo> lol
<danfish> MartijnVdS: cool
<MooDoo> but i am tall :D  that's my excuse
<bigcalm> MooDoo: a couple? Oh dear :)
<MooDoo> Laney: yes basic stuff is ok :) just make sure the pressure barrel tap is closed before you add anything to it...ooops :D
<Laney> heh
<danfish> Laney: if you decide to make a 30L water/wort boiler, heating elements from 5 pound cheapo kettles work well
<Laney> first lot is going to be from a kit
<MooDoo> Laney: mine normally are
<Laney> after that i'd like to do it all
<awilkins> Nectarine wine was a surprise winner.
<awilkins> Oh fhs, phone IRC client
<danfish> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Camra-Guide-Brewing-Graham-Wheeler/dp/185249137X/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1   <- best homebrew book eva!
<awilkins> Malt beer and ripe meat off the bone...
<gordonjcp> mmm, homebrew
 * daubers used to make homebrew at Uni
<daubers> Not done it for ages
<daubers> cold flats make it difficult
<gordonjcp> I used to stay in a not terribly warm flat, but I had a pair of horking great servers in a 6'x6' cupboard along with the hot water tank
<gordonjcp> it stayed at a steady 24Â°C no matter what
<daubers> going to look at a house with a surveyor tomorro \o/
<gordonjcp> if it started getting a bit cool in there I'd fire some jobs onto Carolyne's render farm
<daubers> heh
<awilkins> I could put mine by the exhaust fro my PC or the MythTV box
<gordonjcp> my then-gf had four Sun Ultra 5s in there
<Laney> http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24639#p272628
<mistertim> Hey all - was just wondering, would any of you be able to point me in the direction of where Gnome logs errors on startup? I'm setting up my laptop to use xmonad as the window manager,  and keep getting a "failed to load session" error, but can't find anymore detail anywhere on my system.
<awilkins> .xsession-errors  ? (cant remember)
<mistertim> awilkins: I thought so too, but there's nothing in there that's pertinent
<mistertim> thanks anyway!
<tim_> nick mistertim
<mistertim> oops sorry
<awilkins> Arggh. Train 15 mins late. Fail.
<awilkins> Is pangolin a bot? Or Mark Shuttleworth?
<pangolin> yes.
<awilkins> I should know better than to ask boolean questions...
<pangolin> :)
<pangolin> I am not Mark and I am also not a bot.
<awilkins> That was my suspicion.
<awilkins> Although a part of me wanted to believe that it was both.
<awilkins> Trains suck.
<awilkins> Well, trains rock, the specific implementation here sucks.
<awilkins> I demand a subterranean metro-Shikansen PRT network that covers the entire UK to within a reasonable walking distance.
 * AlanBell orders a nice curry
 * brobostigon is jealous. :(
<Pendulum> now I want curry and cupcakes :(
<Pendulum> I am highly suggestive about food today
<AlanBell> is vindaloo nice?
<AlanBell> I know it is hot, which is fine, but is it tasty?
 * czajkowski has ordered chicken tika to start with followed by buttered chicken and rice 
<brobostigon> never tried, sorry.
<czajkowski> with some garlic bread
<czajkowski> <---- feckin' starvin'
<Pendulum> czajkowski: have you eaten all day?
<czajkowski> I had peanut butter on toast this morning
<czajkowski> and a kitkat at lunch
<Pendulum> erm... lunch?
<czajkowski> so this could be the issue
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> I'd say it is
<Pendulum> even I don't call that lunch :P
 * AlanBell has soup for lunch most days at the moment
<czajkowski> was an ickle bit busy
<Pendulum> AlanBell: soup is more food than a kitkat
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> I might have eaten a wispa that someone accidentally left in the kitchen too
<MartijnVdS> "accidentally"
<AlanBell> vindaloo ordered
<brobostigon> "accidentally2 eating a box of biscuits, that you found, on your desk. :)
<czajkowski> dear dinner please hurry up
<czajkowski> you were ordered at 6:45
<AlanBell> brobostigon: yeah, we have accidentally run out of biscuits
<czajkowski> am fit to eat my fingers
<brobostigon> AlanBell: hmmm, :(
<AlanBell> any last takers for the christmas meal in London? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
 * AlanBell will adjust the reservation from 9 to 8 very shortly
<Pendulum> may have just talked the family into curry for dinner \o/
<Pendulum> now to figure out where I can buy decent cupcakes for myself...
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: do you have the ingredients + a microwave?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.ecurry.com/blog/desserts/microwave-cupcake/
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: yes, but would still have to make frosting. Also, those are inferior cupcakes.
<AlanBell> http://craphound.com/images/tumblr_lunq83BSZh1r4fd4po1_1280.jpg
<Pendulum> AlanBell: the problem is I saw https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150410585137605.367578.24641612604&type=3 first
<Pendulum> and now I want
<AlanBell> ooh, those are fancy
<Pendulum> yeah
<smittix> evening all.
 * AlanBell ate the vindaloo
<brobostigon> good?
<MartijnVdS> "Eat ALL the vindaloo"
<AlanBell> I am in a little bit of pain
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: wait until tomorrow :)
<brobostigon> lol :)
<Myrtti> mmmmmmm curry
 * brobostigon likes making his own.
 * jacobw is watching an anime called 'casshan'
<jacobw> its somewhat implausible, the robot overlords are more human like than the human protagonists
<Acou_Bass> hi, i heard I can get ubuntu help here?
<MartijnVdS> You've come to the right place :)
<Acou_Bass> ive been having network connection issues, seems to only be ubuntu that does it..
<MartijnVdS> Acou_Bass: wired? wireless? 3g?
<MartijnVdS> Acou_Bass: laptop? desktop machine?
<MartijnVdS> Acou_Bass: tablet
<MartijnVdS> ?
<Acou_Bass> wireless, desktop :P
<Acou_Bass> its a PCI wireless card, and it disconnects whenever i receive skype video call/screenshare - ive tried the usual power management turn-off
<MartijnVdS> what kind of chipset?
<MartijnVdS> (if you don't know, you can paste the output of lspci on pastebin)
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin
<lubotu3`> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Acou_Bass> its a ralink 3060
<MartijnVdS> ah, ralink have the worst drivers :(
<Acou_Bass> ive already had to compile drivers for it =\
<MartijnVdS> which version of Ubuntu?
<Acou_Bass> 11.10 64-bit
<MartijnVdS> aren't ralink drivers included these days? apparently not..
<MartijnVdS> popey: ! :)
<Acou_Bass> nah, and the instructions that came on the disk werent exactly helpful, had to get the ubuntuforums people to help hehe
<MartijnVdS> I'd advice getting a wire in place if at all possible :)
<MartijnVdS> s
<zleap> hi
<MartijnVdS> or maybe look on the wiki
<Acou_Bass> not possible =\ routers on the other side + floor of my house, plus theres 3 computers in the house that go to router
<zleap> anyone know how to run minecraft on ubuntu from http://www.minecraft.net/download
<zleap> downloaded waht seems a small minecraft.jar file in to a subdirectory of my home folder
<MartijnVdS> zleap: yes.. and you installed sun-java?
<AlanBell> Acou_Bass: you might find a Â£10 USB wifi dongle is easier than sorting the drivers for the unsupported one
<zleap> is that the same one that cmes with libreoffice
<zleap> comes
<MartijnVdS> zleap: pastebin java --version ?
<Acou_Bass> yeah i figured that hehe, its already a new wireless card but it was cheap
<zleap> http://pastebin.com/bC45airb
<MartijnVdS> zleap: that's openjdk, not sun-java
<MartijnVdS> zleap: you need to install sun's java stuff and either remove  openjdk or use update-java-alternatives (or something) to make Sun Java the default
 * AlanBell has run minecraft on openjdk without much fussing about
<zleap> ok i am now strugging to install the right one
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: coworker had lots of problems with openjdk
<AlanBell> zleap: have you run java -jar minecraft.jar
<AlanBell> and did it not just work?
<zleap> i am trying to follow whjat it says on the site
<zleap> No things never just work on ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> does it give you an error message?
<AlanBell> minecraft just worked for me
<zleap> hang on i clcked the wrong thing and it didn't let me go back to agree to the license
<AlanBell> I think if you just make the .jar executable it just runs
<Acou_Bass> yeah i never had to fiddle to make minecraft work... and i dont have sun java XD i didnt like it though so meh that went off my computer fast
 * AlanBell thinks sun/oracle java is likely to break stuff more than it fixes stuff these days
<Acou_Bass> any recommendations on wireless cards thatll work right away without me having to fiddle round even more?
<Acou_Bass> preferably PCI slot ones
<MartijnVdS> Atheros chips work well
<MartijnVdS> as do Intels (but they don't come on cards I think)
<zleap> if i instrall sun java is it going to screw up openjdk and thjerefore libreoffice ?
<MartijnVdS> zleap: no. But you should not need to install Sun java.
<MartijnVdS> zleap: What error message do you get if you try to run the jar?
<zleap> you jujst said i need it
<MartijnVdS> zleap: I thought you did, but AlanBell and Acou_Bass disagree
<MartijnVdS> zleap: and as they actually use MC, and I don't... :)
<Acou_Bass> used - i played it for like a day and got bored
<AlanBell> both java implementations should work, but I have seen no evidence to suggest you have a problem with openJDK yet
<MartijnVdS> (or at all)
<zleap> http://pastebin.com/Xs4VzzF9
<zleap> if that is n't the output no idea what is going wrong
<zleap> i pasted once it won't let me do it a second time
<Acou_Bass> you tried openJDK-7?
<zleap> that is installed
<zleap> or somethingis
<zleap> I am not a techie,
<MartijnVdS> zleap: can you paste the bit AFTER you run java -Xmx1024M -Xms512M -cp Minecraft.jar net.minecraft.LauncherFrame
<Acou_Bass> it says 1.6.22... im not a techie either but i thought jdk-7 said 1.7 not 1.6 :p
<zleap> MartijnVdS, pastebin won't let me
<MartijnVdS> zleap: make a new paste?
<zleap> not working
<zleap> i won't give me a link
<zleap> just a 2nd text box under the one i paste in to with the same information
<MartijnVdS> You're not helping.. does it show an error message? if so, which error message? to which page are you posting? try going back to the main page? try a different pastebin?
<AlanBell> zleap: http://paste.ubuntu.com
<zleap> http://paste.ubuntu.com/755385/
<zleap> btw i am trying to help another user with this
<MartijnVdS> ???
<AlanBell> zleap: try java -jar minecraft.jar
<AlanBell> or Minecraft.jar
<jacobw> he's relaying instructions to another person
 * jacobw thinks
<AlanBell> does it have a capital M
<zleap> so trying to figure yeah
<zleap> ok that did something
<AlanBell> that Xmx1024 stuff is for if you have memory issues and it doesn't just work
<zleap> so why does it say that on the website then
<AlanBell> The jar is executable and might work as-is. If you run into memory issues, try launching it with java -Xmx1024M -Xms512M -cp Minecraft.jar net.minecraft.LauncherFrame, also please use Sun's JVM.
<AlanBell> it does just work as is on Ubuntu
<jacobw> s/Sun/Oracle
<AlanBell> I think if you chmod+x the file it will just autolaunch with java
<AlanBell> "right click the jar file, permissions, executable, double click, yay \o/" is roughly the procedure
<jacobw> how does one remove the mint search enhancer?
 * jacobw looks forward to migrating to precise
<AlanBell> how did one add the mint search enhancer?
<MartijnVdS> By using the wrong install disk? ;)
<jacobw> all my users use linux mint, therefore i use linux mint
<MartijnVdS> (i.e. the Mint onw)
<MartijnVdS> one
<AlanBell> !mint
<lubotu3`> Linux Mint is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu. Please seek support in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> gah, its not Freenode?!
<jacobw> most annoying :|
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> I use freenode and occasionally gimp.org and one channel on irc.lug.org.uk
<zleap> thanks i got it workng,
<AlanBell> \o/
<zleap> yay he got it working too,  thanks guys
<Acou_Bass> bah ill kill my friend - asked him recently about a new wireless card + he told me to buy this ralink one, saying yeah itll work right away
<Acou_Bass> thinks ill look around for other advice that isnt his ;D
<jacobw> does he use linux?
<Acou_Bass> if that was to me - yeah he uses ubuntu 11.10 too
<zleap> if i copy minecraft.jar into /usr/games does that mean any user can run it
<jacobw> i used to have a ralink card, it was difficult to configure for a long time, eventually the drivers i needed where incorporated in to the kernel
<Acou_Bass> well its working, im connected to it right now
<jacobw> most intel wifi cards works
<Acou_Bass> it just has a habit of disconnecting after 5 minutes of video call or screenshare
<Acou_Bass> it reminds me alot of when i first install ubuntu on my comp and i had to set the power management off
<AlanBell> zleap: if it is chmod rwxr-xr-x
<Acou_Bass> but ive tried that and nothing happened ;p
<zleap> ok
<jacobw> hmm #linuxmint-help is like #ubuntu but worse
<Myrtti> does this surprise you?
<Myrtti> it shouldn't
<Acou_Bass> alright im looking down the list of ubuntu certified hardware, theres 3 atheron ones - will any of these do or does the [168c:*other number here*] bit hold relevence to what i need
<AlanBell> precise alpha 1 is being built it seems
<AlanBell> jacobw: worse in what way?
<jacobw> lower signal to noise ratio
<AlanBell> ok, challenge for you
<AlanBell> click the clock in the indicator area then use the keyboard to go down to the days
<AlanBell> without using the mouse or pressing return, get out from there
<cliftonts> how long does that take Alan?
 * Laney can haz brewing kit
<Laney> need bottles now
<Daviey> AlanBell: enter, pause, left, enter.
<Daviey> ah, without pressing return/enter
<AlanBell> ah, F10 closes the indicators
<AlanBell> so many bugs there, the thing is a complete mess
<AlanBell> everything is a tickbox
<AlanBell> indicator headers are mostly just "image"
<AlanBell> you get trapped on the calendar which is silent
<AlanBell> banshee decides it can just launch because you put focus on it
<AlanBell> guess what I am doing here http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/orca.out
<Guest62724> Hello all - Mike here.  Does anyone know how to set a single piece of music running over all slides over an Open Office or Libre office presentation?
<AlanBell> Guest62724: have a music player running in the background
<Guest62724> thanks Alan :)  I was thinking of something a little more professional :)
<AlanBell> hire a string quartet to play along with it?
<Guest62724> Unless there is some simple video making software that might make it easier to do than using libre.  Its essentially only a video I am running anyway
<popey> Evening all
<AlanBell> it is an interesting question Guest62724, I can't see a way to do it
<AlanBell> in openshot or other video editor it is fairly simple to add an audio track
<LancsMike> In essence, and I cant believe this is anything other than simple to do, I have a 2-3 minute video/presentation that I want to use as the intro to a conference speech.  Its a few pictures, some flying bullet points and some music in the background and thats it.  I thought Libre might be the best place to start
<LancsMike> though at the minute, I cant seem to figure out how to get the music to continually run irrespective of slide changes.  Is this something that can be done or do I need to get hold of and learn (really dont want to do that) something more professional?
<AlanBell> I don't think it is a matter of more professional
<AlanBell> if you want 3d text flying about over video and music you might want openshot
<AlanBell> and install blender to get the openshot animated titles
<LancsMike> would it be easier if I gave you an idea of what I was looking to do?  Was thinking bullets over pictures (though could have that 'zoom in' effect on the pictures) with the music in the background
<LancsMike> (I have a video that was sent to me as an example)
<LancsMike> i.e. each new slide is a new picture, with a couple of new flying bullet points
<drhodesmumby> LancsMike: quickly looking through Google suggests that a video editor might well be best as you surmised.
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5smhy9OB-CM
<AlanBell> professional video ^^
<AlanBell> note the title flying about
<LancsMike> that really did make me laugh....
<popey> hmmm
<drhodesmumby> I will never look at popey in the same way again. 0_0
<LancsMike> ok - il give you an idea where I got the idea from.  The video with the link to follow (its a political video and was sent to me at work by someone who thought this would be a good idea - so forget the politics, which doesnt interest me, its the way it delivers the info) is what I am thinking of emulating
<AlanBell> you could do a screencast of a LibreOffice presentation and import the screencast into openshot and add music and bling there
<LancsMike> I run a legal dept, so I wanted to put pictures of things like court rooms, solicitors etc, with introductory slides as to what the dept does - i.e. 1st slide - a one stop shop.... (next bullet point) for help, support and advice.
<LancsMike> Next slide....
<LancsMike> "From legal problems..."
<LancsMike> "to REAL solutions"
<LancsMike> etc....
<LancsMike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5smhy9OB-CM
<drhodesmumby> Hmm.
<LancsMike> you'll see the format idea that im using
<AlanBell> or export all the slides as png files and import them to openshot
<AlanBell> that would be better than a screencast of a presentation
<AlanBell> LancsMike: nope, you pasted the ironing video again!
<drhodesmumby> Although that would exclude animations.
<AlanBell> drhodesmumby: it would exclude animations done in Impress, yes
<LancsMike> darn.  ok.  forget the politics (it honestly isnt my thing, its the way the video gives the bullet points over the pictures) http://vimeo.com/2028379
<drhodesmumby> LancsMike: I would suggest the media player built into Impress but that's still not really what you're looking for.
<drhodesmumby> And as a politics student, I could never forget the politics. ;-)
<drhodesmumby> Well, save for in this channel because otherwise I'll get a telling off.
<AlanBell> yeah, that is a video titling tool that did that LancsMike
<LancsMike> i.e. the slide after the last one I mentioned would be "From County Court Claims......"   (new bullet point)  "To Defended Actions...."
<drhodesmumby> Although now I want to run after seeing the video.
<AlanBell> and that would be an *expensive* video
<LancsMike> I wasnt looking for the bells and whistles
<drhodesmumby> Could it be jigged so that you could have the media player ready in the background to play while the presentation was still full-screen?
<drhodesmumby> And then you can start both simultaneously with no-one even seeing the media player?
<LancsMike> It was just going to be pictures of the dept, the work it does, and some simple bullet points covering its achievements over the last 12 months.
<drhodesmumby> LancsMike: would that be adequate or would it be ideal to embed the music?
<AlanBell> LancsMike: install openshot and blender, do not attempt to use blender, openshot just needs it as a dependency for the fancy titles
<AlanBell> plan to spend quite a lot of hours messing about with it
<drhodesmumby> AlanBell: 'do not attempt to use Blender' - I think that's the best bit of advice anyone's ever given with regard to that software.
<AlanBell> :)
<LancsMike> Im happy to spend the time (ive done about 5-6 hours already tonight) but just wanted to see if what I wanted to do was 'doable'
<AlanBell> yeah, it is
<AlanBell> blender can do all the stuff in that fancy video itself, but it is kinda hard
<drhodesmumby> LancsMike: as I said, does the music have to be embedded?
<AlanBell> openshot you will actually get a finished result before the heat death of the universe
<AlanBell> and do show us the results!
<LancsMike> Well this is my first attempt at anything like this
<LancsMike> Unfortunately, I have my company's conference in 7 days and have to put a presentation together - normally, people go for death by powerpoint so this is me just trying something a little more adventurous
<drhodesmumby> I'm thinking something like this: soffice -show <presentation> &; mediaplayer -play <music)
<LancsMike> ...which is why I wanted the music as part of the video, so I can just set it running and leave it be :)
<AlanBell> LancsMike: got a fairly decent CPU?
<LancsMike> at work I do....
<AlanBell> good, it is a CPU and memory hungry process
<AlanBell> mostly CPU
<popey>  s/27
<popey> BAH!
<LancsMike> Openshot?
<AlanBell> !info openshot
<LancsMike> god this is a whole new thing....
<AlanBell> slow bot
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install openshot blender
<LancsMike> Ive installed them, Im now starting learning how to use them..... :)
<drhodesmumby> Actually, a question here
<LancsMike> please do....
<drhodesmumby> Are you using Libreoffice in Ubuntu at work? Or is this Libreoffice on Windows?
<drhodesmumby> If it's Windows then we might need a different approach.
<LancsMike> erm...both actually.
<drhodesmumby> Which one will you be delivering the presentation with?
<LancsMike> I have a works laptop which dual boots into Ubuntu (though IT dont know about that....)
<AlanBell> nice :)
<AlanBell> http://www.openshot.org/videos/
<hamitron> naughty.... like it ;/
<drhodesmumby> Heh, nice.
<LancsMike> Yeah.  got my work email set up in it though havent quite conquered the network yet...
<AlanBell> wow, openshot 1.4 looks awesome
<drhodesmumby> Hmm.
<AlanBell> but 1.3 is great too
<drhodesmumby> I suspect the concurrent media player and presentation approach would be easiest TBH.
<AlanBell> easiest, but not the most wowiest
<LancsMike> seriously?  I thought (me being a 'dabbler' on the old computer at best) that this would be easy and just me being someone who needed to learn (albeit quickly) how to do it
<drhodesmumby> http://www.slideshare.net/NeogainSEO/how-to-convert-a-document-into-a-youtube-video-part-2
<hamitron> I reckon a couple of huge paper posters would get most people talking
<hamitron> ;)
<LancsMike> think costs hamitron :)
<hamitron> powerpoint is so predictable
<drhodesmumby> Uses Libreoffice and Openshot to basically achieve what AlanBell is suggesting.
<hamitron> cost?
<hamitron> :/
<LancsMike> paper posters....costs
<hamitron> so does toilet paper
<drhodesmumby> LancsMike: I think it's probably just an area which has been neglected in Impress' development.
 * hamitron likes posters
<LancsMike> ok - so silly question - If I get the slide show working (and manually figure out the timing for the bullet points etc) can I get the music going, in the background, with no one knowing?
<LancsMike> and is that really the easiest way of doing it?
<LancsMike> (cos Im going to have to sit here listening to the same bit of music over and over again and changing the timing on every single bullet point movement)
<drhodesmumby> Do the slides have to be in sync with the music?
<LancsMike> would be better....
<drhodesmumby> Erk. I'm not sure then.
<drhodesmumby> The people on #documentfoundation might know something that we don't, maybe?
<LancsMike> cos the alternative is that I call our marketing dept up tomorrow and they charge me a couple of grand to put this video together and it then loses its, I dont know, surprise "arent they good" factor if the company has actually had to pay for it :)
<drhodesmumby> Although it's a fairly small channel...
<drhodesmumby> The easiest solution of all may simply be to use Powerpoint itself, assuming you have it installed?
 * AlanBell still thinks LancsMike can do it in openshot
<AlanBell> how would powerpoint help?
<drhodesmumby> I believe it supports background music.
<LancsMike> oh no.................death by powerpoint!!!!!
<drhodesmumby> Hmm.
<drhodesmumby> One moment, let's see if there's an analogue somewhere...
<AlanBell> http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=30904
<AlanBell> you can use an impress macro to launch a background music player
<AlanBell> but openshot is more fun
<drhodesmumby> AlanBell: a background music player is basically what I was suggesting earlier, although I'd just launch them both simultaneously from the terminal.
<drhodesmumby> Irritatingly, it seems that the method of making background music work in Powerpoint really isn't available for Impress.
<LancsMike> Is that however still not dependent on me working out the musical timing?
<hamitron> could you pre-render the presentation to video file, with the music and affects?
<AlanBell> still a bit puzzled why a presentation tool would have background music
<AlanBell> if there is a presentation going on, then I am talking
<drhodesmumby> AlanBell: well, it has sound effects.
<AlanBell> if there is a video playing then I will shut up
<drhodesmumby> LancsMike: and sadly probably yes.
<drhodesmumby> LancsMike: although I suspect you'd have to work out the timing either way actually, thinking about it.
<LancsMike> Ok - clarity.......
<LancsMike> this is an introduction video
<LancsMike> so theres no one stood on the stage
<LancsMike> its supposed to introduce my legal and compliance team
<AlanBell> video being the key word in that
<LancsMike> so there are bullet points around music
<LancsMike> showing what we do
<LancsMike> cos its for an end of year awards ceremony
<LancsMike> So...........the thought being.........
<LancsMike> that since we do a lot of 'bullet pointable' work...such as "From legal problems......to real solutions" and "from County court claims.......to defended actions" etc, the video I am about to attach would be a perfect intro to the speaker.
<LancsMike> fast forward this vid to 1:37 - forget the politics, I couldnt care less what the tory party are saying, its the effect I am after.....
<LancsMike> http://vimeo.com/2028244
<AlanBell> so you have three options, in ascending difficulty, and bling level: Impress+media player, openshot, blender
<hamitron> I personally wouldn't want music played seperately to the displayed information, in case the music program delays and you have sync issues. better to have one file (maybe as a video)?
<gord> if you use blender all the bullets could have hair physics, bloom, lens focus blur and crumble apart
<hamitron> gord: and no time to spare, best start learning ;)
<drhodesmumby> hamitron: good point, although I suspect for the most part sync issues would be fairly minor at best - particularly if you already had the programs open and simply used their 'start playing' switches from the CLI.
<LancsMike> Take the video sample - each area in black text is a challenge, and when the text flips over into colour, its the answer.  now I dont need all the bells and whistles, I actually have that in my libre presentation as two separate bits of flying text...but it gives an idea hopefully?
<drhodesmumby> hamitron: that way you don't even have program startup time as an issue.
<hamitron> drhodesmumby, I'd say most of the time it would work, but no real advantage to just having a video file
<drhodesmumby> hamitron: oh, I agree with that.
<hamitron> and I always assume the worst will happen
<hamitron> :/
<drhodesmumby> Given all the clarification, I suspect that a video file probably is the very best solution you'll get LancsMike.
<drhodesmumby> hamitron: I prefer a more optimistic approach myself. :P
<AlanBell> LancsMike: you want the puzzle 7x7 transition probably
<LancsMike> 7x7?
<drhodesmumby> I think it's an effect name in OpenShot LancsMike.
<AlanBell> in openshot on the transitions tab
<AlanBell> Puzzle 7 by 7
<AlanBell> closest thing I can find to the effect you were after
<LancsMike> me too....
<drhodesmumby> LancsMike: do you think you've decided on a particular approach now or?...
 * AlanBell is rendering
<LancsMike> Im just messing with OpenShot - seems pretty good!  though next question is how do you get bullet text to fly onto the picture scenes.... :)
<AlanBell> LancsMike: animated title editor
<AlanBell> in the menu
<AlanBell> that makes a series of png files which act like a video clip and you can drag it to the timeline
<AlanBell> then use transitions to go between things on the timelines
<LancsMike> uh oh....getting this guys......."Blender, the free open source 3D content creation suite is required for this action (http://www.blender.org).
<LancsMike> Please check the preferences in OpenShot and be sure the Blender executable is correct.  This setting should be the path of the 'blender' executable on your computer.  Also, please be sure that it is pointing to Blender version 2.56 or greater.
<LancsMike> Blender Path:
<LancsMike> blender
<LancsMike> Version Detected:
<LancsMike> 2.49"
<AlanBell> ooh, which version of ubuntu do you have?
<AlanBell> this is easily fixed, don't worry
<LancsMike> erm.....
<LancsMike> dont know.  just got it from the software centre
<AlanBell> fine, you are not on ubuntu 11.10
<AlanBell> so you need to download blender, you don't need to install it, just download it
<LancsMike> No im on 11.04
<AlanBell> 64 bit or 32 bit?
<LancsMike> 32
<AlanBell> http://www.blender.org/dl/http://download.blender.org/release/Blender2.60/blender-2.60a-linux-glibc27-i686.tar.bz2
<AlanBell> download that and expand it somewhere in your home directory
<AlanBell> in the openshot preferences you then need to set the blender executable to something like /home/mike/Downloads/blender/blender
<diplo> evening all
<AlanBell> depending on where you expanded it
<AlanBell> then the animated titles will work
<LancsMike> Thanks Alan - just extracting it now....
<LancsMike> wahey.  dont know if its working but it aint giving me grief...
<AlanBell> LancsMike: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/demo.mpeg
<LancsMike> Nice one....
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-01
<LancsMike> ok....sorry, I have another question.....
<LancsMike> On OpenShot, how do you add bullet points to animate into the pictures you are setting up in the timeline?
<LancsMike> Thanks all and good night!!
<AlanBell> âââ
<AlanBell> bullets
<knightwise> Good morning everyone
<sagaci> hi knightwise
<knightwise> how are you today
<awilkins> Bloke here on train with about 5,000 lines of C# in one file >_<
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: as long as it's not in one function...
<awilkins> No, not that bad.
<awilkins> Can't really read it discretely across the aisle. He has a Thinkpad, that engenders a certain degree of respect.
<awilkins> We're going Dell for our workstation class laptops, apparently.
<sagaci> just awkwardly cough *cough* I use patent-encumbered Mono *cough*
<awilkins> I like C# as a language, not sure how I feel about the patent thing.
<awilkins> On the one hand I think it's really unlikely that MS will brave the wrath of the EU by suing someone for using Mono.
<awilkins> On the other, I'm mostly a Java coder these days...
<AlanBell> morning all o/
<awilkins> \o
 * AlanBell dabbles in all languages, but not c# so far, never come across it
<AlanBell> python, php, java, javascript normally
<MartijnVdS> Perl for work, Python at home. Java when I try my hand at Android apps.
<MartijnVdS> And C# when Banshee breaks
<MartijnVdS> oh and javascript at work
<AlanBell> I use kill -9 when banshee breaks
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: sure, but my banshee breaks in interesting ways
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it doesn't recognise my phone, for example
<MartijnVdS> so I added some logging
<awilkins> Banshee usually kills itself..
<MartijnVdS> and I found out it doesn't even try
<awilkins> Not sure about all the new bits of C# sine 2.0
<MartijnVdS> I don't know anything about C# other than "If I type this and recompile, new stuff gets logged"
<MartijnVdS> copy/paste trickery
<AlanBell> some languages like to sprinkle semicolons everywhere, others don't.
<AlanBell> that is all you need to know about programming
<daubers> Morning
<danfish> morning
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: also, {} vs spaces
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: christmas tree chap just phoned me back to confirm
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks - I booked too the other day.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Same place and time
<MooDoo> moring all
<MartijnVdS> Mooring, MooDoo
<MooDoo> hello MartijnVdS
<DJones> Morning all
<czajkowski> morning
 * daubers needs stronger coffee
<daubers> and the postman to bring his components he ordered
<daubers> and a book on grammar
<AlanBell> eats shoots and leaves
 * AlanBell wonders if there is an excuse to go to London this afternoon
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: London Eye?
<AlanBell> something more businesslike :)
<JamesTait> I can't believe it's that time already, but Happy December everyone! :)
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<JamesTait> bigcalm: o/
<oimon> http://www.t3.com/news/apple-employee-fired-for-facebook-rant
<DJones> oimon: I saw that a few days ago, apparently Apple employees aren't allowed to say anything detrimental about Apple
<oimon> it's funny, i'm re-reading 1984 atm ..
<oimon> it was only a boy cursing his phone
<MooDoo> oimon: detremental to the companies image....personally i would of decked the person who grassed
<popey> bah
<popey> lug.org.uk is down
<MooDoo> you broke it popey ?
<popey> no
<JamesTait> jnick_tait: Hi! o/
<jnick_tait> JamesTait: hello
<daubers> AlanBell: I'm tempted to goto the science museum for the robot exhibition
<JamesTait> Nice to see a fellow Tait around. :)
<gord> if only we had an Alan Tait
<oimon> or tait modern
<daubers> gord: I thought we'd already exceeded our Alan Quota
<AlanBell> there is no quota
<JamesTait> My dad's middle name is Alan.
<gord> we have enough for them to spoil any and all broths
<JamesTait> Not quite the same.
<MooDoo> gord: we also need a titfur
<jnick_tait> JamesTait: the cool thing is that my first name is James too
<MooDoo> arrrrrrrrrrrr two james taits?
<daubers> AlanBell: Because all Alans are one?
<JamesTait> jnick_tait: Let the world cower in fear. :)
<jnick_tait> :-)
<gord> oh right
<gord> happy mailman day!
<MooDoo> oh no :(
<MooDoo> lol
<dogmatic69> my ubuntu10.10 is getting real slow :( after opening a terminal window it takes about 30 seconds before the prompt shows
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what does "top" say? is something running at 100% CPU?
<dogmatic69> i just rebooted and load average is 10
<dogmatic69> chrome is 50%
<MartijnVdS> try latencytop
<j0nr> I have given up on chrome, seems to slow everything down
<MartijnVdS> j0nr: at least it's not firefox
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: installed that, what am i looking for?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: the top of the screen -- apps doing massive amounts of i/o
<j0nr> MartijnVdS: Well running Firefox things don't seem to slow down
<dogmatic69> fsync 750ms
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: yes that's the call.. but it should be telling you which process is doing that
<AlanBell> can anyone think of a reason why postgres might fail to support TLS when connected to from a particular IP address?
<dogmatic69> if i click fsync, it has jbd2_log_wait_commit ext4_sync_file vfs_fsync_range etc
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: pg_hba.conf not having "ssl" in the entry for that host?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: _click_?>
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: latencytop isn't a gui app
<dogmatic69> :O
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: sudo apt-get install latencytop, then ran 'latencytop' and it complained about sudo, so 'sudo latencytop' which opened up a little window
<MooDoo> AlanBell: does the ip in the cert match the hostname of the calling server?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: strange
 * MartijnVdS tries
<MooDoo> AlanBell: just read that from the net...
<AlanBell> MooDoo: no certs, anonymous TLS
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: it does not look like the screenie here http://www.latencytop.org/
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: hey it's graphical now
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: Check the "targets" list
<dogmatic69> hehe
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: which program is at the top?
<dogmatic69> global
<dogmatic69> then, sendmail
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: sure, that's always on top
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I guess you have a large sendmail queue?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: try "mailq"
<dogmatic69> 8k
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: 8k? as in 8kb or 8000 mails?
<dogmatic69> latter
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: that's waht causing your slowness
<MartijnVdS> sendmail tries to read/send all those files
<MartijnVdS> check /var/log/mail.log
<dogmatic69> bah
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you may want to fix  that :)
<dogmatic69> i think so
<dogmatic69> checking the log now
<AlanBell> let me rephrase my question because I am full of fail /o\
<AlanBell> can anyone think of a reason why post*fix* might fail to support TLS when connected to from a particular IP address?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: because it has a blacklist entry in its configuration?
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: log is full of Dec  1 10:48:53 ultra-magnus sm-mta[1772]: pASB0MG7026736: to=root, delay=2+23:29:09, xdelay=00:00:00, ...
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: "something" is sending an email
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: probably cron jobs
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you need to configure (or remove) sendmail, or install a replacement and configure that properly (nullmailer, for example)
<MartijnVdS> then the mails will end up in YOUR mailbox and you can see what's wrong
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: my + sudo crontab is empty
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: sure, but /etc/cron.d/ isn't  (or /etc/cron.daily, etc.)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you might be able to look at the email content in /var/spool/ somewhere
<dogmatic69> var/spool/mail is empty
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: that's delivered mail
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I don't know where sendmail stores those files, please look around in /var a bit :)
<dogmatic69> ah, it would be empty... hence the problem :D
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you might be able to fix it by doing dpkg-reconfigure sendmail
<dogmatic69> var/spool/mqueue
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: and then selecting "Local delivery only"
<dogmatic69> sudo dpkg-reconfigure sendmail-
<dogmatic69> sendmail-base  sendmail-bin   sendmail-cf
<dogmatic69> which one?
<MooDoo> omg i'm so sick of support right now :D lol
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: not figured out the config yet, but its much better now
<popey> golly. john lewis sell chromebooks now http://www.johnlewis.com/Chromebooks/Chromebooks/Chromebooks/SubCategory.aspx
<MooDoo> oooo yeah, 299 for the basic one :)
<oimon> popey: i didn't have the same experience as you with mint - i get ubuntu security updates i think
<gord> heh, i like that "Login" is one of the things they eliminated to increase how fast you "get to the web"
<oimon> haven't heard about chrome for a while
<davmor2> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> oimon: you do get them, but mint recommend you dont install them
<DJones> Definition of a hard drive according to the john lewis website "Built in memory used for storing your audio and video files etc"
<DJones> I guess its right in its simplest form
 * AlanBell slaps CISCO firewalls very very hard
<DJones> Interesting recruitment method http://www.canyoucrackit.co.uk/
<DJones> Linked from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15968878
<popey> thats one for ali1234 & AlanBell âº
 * davmor2 lends AlanBell one of his WORK YOU *ADD EXPLETIVE* Mallets if you're going to do a job don't do it half hearted hit it with this :)
<AlanBell> it intercepts and interfers with SMTP traffic
<iclebyte> anyone here good with the suits?
<ali1234> popey: i think i broke the canonical recruitment page :/
<AlanBell> strips out STARTTLS from the server response amongst other stuff
<popey> heh
<ali1234> popey: precisely
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: who needs privacy!
<AlanBell> we just spent 2 hours tracing this thing with telnet to port 25
<kvarley> Are there any sites you know of where I can find out how to build a compact, low power, fanless pc? I saw on youtube a guy made one from an Intel Desktop Board with an atom processor to run Ubuntu on was all
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: there aren't many sites that teach you that one specific thing
<MartijnVdS> it's just "building a PC" while buying the least noisy parts :)
<occupy64k> I'm using a mini-itx board which is fanless
<oimon> iclebyte: what's your question?
<kvarley> occupy64k: What CPU and case do you have?
<occupy64k> It's an atom CPU.  The motherboard is Intel D525MW
<occupy64k> And I'm running off of a USB thumb drive, so no hard disk
<popey> kvarley: why do you want to build one, why not just buy one?
<occupy64k> The case is, well, "home made"
<MartijnVdS> Welded sheets of iron?
<kvarley> popey: The few ones I looked at were the cost of a gaming rig for an eighth of the power
<occupy64k> Almost
<popey> kvarley: whats it going to be used for?
<kvarley> popey: Web browsing / Instant Messaging / Playing video
<kvarley> I realise that if I want passively cooled I will likely have to sacrifice the video playing part
<MartijnVdS> nah
<MartijnVdS> recent CPUs (and GPUs) come with built-in H.264 decoders
<MartijnVdS> so even 1080p should be possible
<kvarley> =]
<popey> kvarley: get a revo?
<popey> revos do have fans but they generally only kick in when the GPU is in heavy use
<popey> (I have two on my desk here, they're by no means noisy
<kvarley> popey: But they do have fans?
<popey> it has a fan on the gpu
<popey> a tiny one
<kvarley> hhmm
<kvarley> You're running Ubuntu on them?
<popey> http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/105218_inside.jpg
<popey> yes
<popey> my mum has one as her desktop pc
<popey> she basically does email, facebook, youtube
<kvarley> Ah yes, I recall mumbuntu from the uupc =]
<bigcalm> I have a revo on my desk that acts as my web dev server, fan only kicks in when it needs to do heavy number crunching
<kvarley> popey & bigcalm: What model of revo do you have?
<bigcalm> Bother, 128gb ssd are still expensive
<bigcalm> r3600
<popey> sa,e
<popey> *same
<popey> 3 of them
<kvarley> popey & bigcalm: Thanks
<kvarley> popey: They're good then? ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> I have SSD's in two of them
<awilkins> Joy, my router has crashed
<popey> and upped to 4GB RAM
<bigcalm> I upgraded to 4gb ram but currently it has a 32bit 10.04.3 on it :(
<bigcalm> Will rectify that with 12.04 next year
<bigcalm> I wonder how it will cope with unity
<andylockran> guys, is there a command to cat the 27th line of our  a file?
<kvarley> popey & bigcalm: Is the esata port on the back esatap or just esata? (Does it provide power to the hdd or not?)
<bigcalm> Pass
<bigcalm> You'll have to look it up
<popey> dunno
<popey> however I dont think the newer revo has esata at all
<bigcalm> Aye, our revos are the old versions that I don't think are available any more
<kvarley> I'll look at various nettops I guess, thanks for the help
<bigcalm> Welcome
<kvarley> I want a more powerful companion to my RaspberryPi when I get it
<AlanBell> life is a minestrone, and so is my lunch
<oimon> anyone else had update-apt-xapi making ubuntu 11.10 vista-like?
<oimon> i terms of unusable performance
<brobostigon> oimon, i had that problem, many years ago, didnt figure out why, not seen it recently.
 * davmor2 saw the mine part of AlanBell's last message and thought Oh God even AlanBell is talking about life and MineCraft now :)
<oimon> brobostigon: which distro you runnign right now?
<MooDoo> davmor2: there's only one minecraft....ONE MINECRAFT
<brobostigon> oimon, debian sid + experimental.
<oimon> DE?
<brobostigon> oimon, plain gnome3 with gnome-shell.
<oimon> + gnome shell extensions?
<brobostigon> no.
<oimon> have you tried them?
<brobostigon> no.
<brobostigon> oimon, are you refferring to mint extensions?
<davmor2> MooDoo: You say that but there is MineCraft Mobile too :P
<brobostigon> mints*
<oimon> yes, i think so, however they are installable in deb/ubuntu
<oimon> (of course)
<brobostigon> oimon, in which case, no, i havent tried them, and there is dicussion about packaging them into debian.
<oimon> they make gnome shell usable :)
<brobostigon> oimon, i am happy, how gnoome-shell is now, for the most part, there are sopme niggly issues, but nothing hugely major, for me.
<oimon> i cannot get over the number of clicks required to do anything in the default shell#
<brobostigon> oimon, i do very little clicking, i do most stuff from my keyboard.
<popey> +1
<popey> keyboard > mouse
<davmor2> just me still using the mouse then
<oimon> davmor2: me too
<davmor2> oimon: that one reason I prefer Unity over gnomeshell all the apps down the side that I need 1 click
<oimon> mouse shuffle then click
<kvarley> popey & bigcalm: The revo looks remarkably good. Quiet, powerful, loads of useful ports and stuff. =
<gord> i should get another revo, its been a few months since i have bought one
<kvarley> gord: Haha, addicted to buying revos?
<monsterwizard> is there a site where Ican do excerices involving linux commands
<bigcalm> Still pondering replacing my parents' Viglen MPC-L with a Revo. Maybe get myself a newer one
<oimon> brobostigon: the window list extension is a bit ugly looking, hopefully that can be tarted up. oh look, there's update-apt-xapian-index eating my machine http://i.imgur.com/omnGn.png
<brobostigon> oimon, ah, let me look. i am familier with what update-apt-xapian can do. :)
<oimon> i think it happens because i was dual booting
<oimon> when i boot back into ubuntu it shags it for the first 15 mins
<smittix> Afternoon all
<oimon> because i hadn't booted into 11.10 for a while
<oimon> need to renice it lower i guess
<oimon> stuff that is set to run ASAP after boot like that is not friendly to the user, and rather windows-ish
<popey> pretty sure update manager doesnt run right after boot
<popey> it has a built in delay of some minutes, so it doesn't punch you in the face after boot
<ging> mine used to pop up at the exact same time each day, then it stopped doing that, now it's random
<oimon> it's seizing up a system that used to be OK with earlier releases. what is it actually doing?
<DJones> Does anybody use the lovefilm service? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/01/lovefilm_dumps_flash/ Moving to MS Silverlight
<dogmatic69> silverlight was dropped by MS
<dogmatic69> sure ive read something like thtat
<gord> i use it, but via the ps3
<DJones> dogmatic69: I've seen reports of rumours its going to be dropped, don't think its been confirmed
<DJones> dogmatic69: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/10/microsoft_killing_silverlight_rumours/
<chrisjrob> they have confirmed that they are concentrating on HTML5
<chrisjrob> which is tantamount to the same thing
<chrisjrob> would have thought silverlight was a very peculiar decision
<chrisjrob> for love film
<gord> microsoft is a biiiiiiiiig company, the left hand saying they are concentrating on HTML5 does not mean that the right hand is also doing that
 * chrisjrob nods
<chrisjrob> true
<chrisjrob> but their default browser will probably not support it
<chrisjrob> metro IE
<chrisjrob> tbh it is almost immaterial whether they kill it or not - HTML5 will win by being better, it'll just take time
<gordonjcp> anyone got any pointers on tracking down suspend problems in 11.10?
<gord> i don't think html5 is in a state where it is "better", however, it is more accessible, coming by default in modern browsers and phones
<chrisjrob> and doesn't need plugins
<gord> especially audio in html5, which is damn near awful
<chrisjrob> i have tried implementing video in HTML5 and it's a bit basic and not universally supported
<davmor2> gord: I think the advantage comes from the fact that you don't have to refactor all of you code to work on different platforms it just magically works
<gord> davmor2, with html5? ehhhh, you'll always need (if browser == "browser_that_thinks_its_special) { do_different_thing() })
<chrisjrob> less so these days
<chrisjrob> in fact quite surprisingly good in IE these days
<davmor2> gord: yeah but it's a minor code change rather than a complete code rewrite to work with flash or silverlight or ......
<gord> Dart might make that kind of stuff less annoying, though honestly no one is going to use Dart
<gord> davmor2, remind me, next thurs at the lighthouse right?
<bigcalm> Yeah, during my week off!
<directhex> silverlight is on its deathbed
<directhex> but the big studios want moar DRMs
<directhex> just you wait for DRM-enabled <video> tags. that's what MS will mean when they keep saying "native html5"
<directhex> IE-only DRM'd <video>
<daubers> Anyone else getting suckered into the code breaking thing that went up today?
<gord> hrm?
<awilkins> I looked and mused about some of the odd sequences
<awilkins> GCHQ are recruiting with games.
<awilkins> They could at least have posted the code as text. Unless it's a red herring and the answer is steganographically hidden in the PNG
<oimon> https://twitter.com/#!/BBCClick/status/142209117904322560 << response to livefilm announcement?
<AlanBell> awilkins: I was wondering about that, seems unneccessarily hard
<AlanBell> awilkins: they could have put it as text in the source or something
<oimon> daubers: link?
<daubers> http://www.canyoucrackit.co.uk/
<awilkins> Real crypto is virtually impossible to crack, not sure who this kind of crossword puzzle stuff recruits these days.
<awilkins> But I suppose they need a mix.
<awilkins> "Overspecialize and you breed in weakness. It's slow death."
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: real crypto is surprisingly easy to crack if you know who has the key
 * MartijnVdS gets his torture machines
<oimon> http://www.canyoucrackit.co.uk/15b436de1f9107f3778aad525e5d0b20.js
<awilkins> No! Not the X-Factor Tour Album!
<awilkins> Now it looks more interesting.
<davmor2> gord: possibly I'm looking to see who else is coming at the moment might just be you and me in which case I might postpone till January
<gord> davmor2, cool cool, just let me know
<DJones> daubers: the canyoucrackit test has been up since the beginning of November according to bbc website
<DJones> Just not been publiscised
<danfish> 42 <- there, that's that crypto thing solved
<chrisjrob> danfish: ah, but what was the question?
<smittix> Don't suppose anyone knows a plugin for wordpress that will auto share a new post on wordpress?
<danfish> chrisjrob: could tell, have to kill you blah blah blah - I'm with GCHQ now :P
<chrisjrob> :(
 * chrisjrob orders a new danfish to be built
<czajkowski> danfish: when we going rugby watching
<AlanBell> oimon: how did you get to that?
<danfish> chrisjrob: thankfully they broke the mould after me :)
<danfish> czajkowski: def in the new year - fancy going to quins?
<MooDoo> woohoo quins :D
<czajkowski> danfish: yup
<czajkowski> definately
<MooDoo> my fave team :D
<czajkowski> as long as the weekend of FOSDEM is out
<czajkowski> we should start to plan this
<oimon> AlanBell: i'd like to give you a fancy answer..but it's google
<danfish> which weekend is FOSDEM?
<directhex> 5th i think
<czajkowski> smittix: what do you mean autoshare
<directhex> 4th/5th
<czajkowski> aye
<oimon> AlanBell: site: command
<directhex> i'll be there, as always
<directhex> i hope my talk proposal is accepted
<czajkowski> can it have less cats please
<AlanBell> oimon: well that one looks like a very straightforward challenge
<danfish> czajkowski: I know quins need to rearrange their schedule a bit - should be finalised next week apparently
<AlanBell> not easy, but straightforward
<AlanBell> implement the function to the spec provided and it will spit out the answer
<czajkowski> danfish: cool then we should create an event and folks can buy tickets :)
<czajkowski> and the beer and nibbles aftterwards
<czajkowski> danfish: do not have a conference clashing and get  a day pass!
<oimon> AlanBell: maybe unrelated
<MooDoo> czajkowski: danfish damn you two that's my fave team....i might have to come to that one
<danfish> czajkowski: definitely - I don't even have to research a pub - the Turk's Head is the bees knees
<danfish> MooDoo: you should do
<MooDoo> danfish: yeah as it's quins, i'm going to have to try for this one.
<AlanBell> oimon: well this is stage 2 of the puzzle, solving it presumably tells you where stage 3 is
<czajkowski> danfish: coool well once we have a date set lets get this underway
<MooDoo> :D
<danfish> czajkowski: no probs.
<czajkowski> yay
<danfish> will prob need a 'pick me up' in Jan/Feb - cruel months
<MooDoo> danfish: how come? if you don't mind me asking
<danfish> MooDoo: post-xmas, always dark going to and coming from work.
<awilkins> Can't move the volume slider with keyboard either, AlanBell
<AlanBell> awilkins: yeah, indeed
<AlanBell> unity is a funny mix of only really working with a keyboard, and only really working with a mouse
<MooDoo> danfish: ah that old chestnut
<MooDoo> i think we should have a pre christmas ubuntu uk hangout on google + :)
<AlanBell> MooDoo: we should!
<awilkins> Unity 2D is a funny mix of being 2D, but needing OpenGL compositing or it looks like ass.
<oimon> is there still a 10 person limit on hangout?
<gordonjcp> urgh
<awilkins> Little bits of redraw corruption everywhere
<gordonjcp> that middle-click bug in Ubuntu's firefox package is annoying as hell
<gordonjcp> especially since updates obliterate locally-changed files
<MooDoo> ok everyone, any suggestions for the date of a pre christmas google+ hangout :D
<oimon> wondering whether to use ubuntu + add bits from mint + remove other bits , or use mint and add bits from ubuntu
<awilkins> Switched to Nouveau / 2D because nvidia / Unity was hard-crashing my machine too much.
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: middle click closes tabs for me, what did you want it to do?
<oimon> check the capacitors on the video card awilkins
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: paste URL into an open tab
<oimon> had that problem and the caps had spewed up some froth
<gordonjcp> ie. select URL in another window, middle click on a firefox window and it opens the URL
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: it has been deliberately spragged in Ubuntu
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: middle click in the url bar pastes the url for me
<gordonjcp> not in the URL bar, in the content pane of the window
<awilkins> No name : I'll have a peek, but it's rock steady on Windows / games.
<AlanBell> err, but that does the scrolly thing
<gordonjcp> much easier since you don't have to clear the URL bar without accidentally selecting, or creating a new tab
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: not that I've noticed...
<AlanBell> for me middle clicking a firefox window with scrollbars makes a circle appear with a dot in it and up and down arrows, I can then move the mouse relative to the circle to control the scroll speed
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: might be because I have autoscrolling selected in the advanced preferences
<gord> i enable auto-scroll because middle click (used to at least) open a new empty tab
<oimon> brobostigon: ah, i discovered that update-apt-xapian-index has a -u switch
<oimon> -u incremental update, reindexing only those packages whose version has changed since the last run
<MartijnVdS> WTF is xapian?
<gord> considering reducing the noise my phone makes when i have a meeting to go to to 30 seconds and replacing the noise with the countdown music...
<oimon> a gremlin that lives inside your machine and jumps on the CPU and hard drive
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: iirc it is the DB for package searching in most of the package managers
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: a library/thing for doing indexed searching of stuff
<daubers> gord: But get the people from IT crowd doing t rather than the real music!
<gord> i like that episode :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://xapian.org/
<MartijnVdS> ah so it's apt showing its internals on the outside
<MartijnVdS> ewww :)
<oimon> once a week it rebuilds the index, but wondering if really necessary as it kills the machine. so why not just update the index
<oimon> the machine has ubuntu+xubuntu+kubuntu+lubuntu+gnome shell on it
<MartijnVdS> so lots of installed packages
<oimon> a few :$
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: no, it's an optional extra component that significantly speeds up searching (and possibly also dependency resolution, but don't quote me on that, I'm basically just going with what's potentially possible)
<popey> gord: willcooke has the BBC startup sound when he logs in, it's ace. Boop-beep!
<popey> I want that on my phone
<MartijnVdS> is that like the Gameboy startup sound?
<MartijnVdS> http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/gp2x.cgi?0,0,0,0,59,2681 ?
<MartijnVdS> http://8bs.com/sounds.htm ?
<oimon> i had an electron...not such a beefy sound
 * oimon is floating in nostalgia land
 * MartijnVdS had a clone PC (8MHz)
<MartijnVdS> it did weird things with it floppy and printer motors at boot
<MartijnVdS> then the hard disk started to "beep" while reading
<MartijnVdS> or whistle
<gord> someone should make a ZXSpectrum emulator for phones, you could load the games by playing the taps on a tape player and having the phone listen to the sound
<oimon> think i might change my text message sound
<davmor2> gord: nice free time project for you by the look of it :)
<gord> davmor2, my free time is dominated with saving princess zelda
<gord> someone has to
<oimon> i'll help after dec 25th with a gold wii controller
<davmor2> gord: you're a sad sad man ;)
<oimon> in the meantime i'm playing oblivion
<oimon> not sure if it's worth the time investment yet though
<oimon> seem to be running around in caves a lot atm
<gord> davmor2, you misspelled "fantastic"
<daubers> gord: Your princess is in another castle
<gord> daubers, wrong game series ;)
<davmor2> gord: no pretty sure it's alway zelda
<daubers> gord: I always felt that they should mix the two
<gord> princess is in another castle is from mario ;) about peach
<MartijnVdS> Princess Preach
<davmor2> gord: peach I thought it was toadstool
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Toad said it about Peach
<gord> toad isn't a princess!
<gord> daubers, http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 there you go
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Peach is her first name now it makes sense
<davmor2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Peach
<ali1234> if anyone is interested, that GCHQ code posted earlier appears to be a DOS .com file. i'm not going to attempt to run executables from spying agencies on any computers i care about...
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you can run it through a disassembler
<oimon> in a VM
<daubers> gord: Afternoon productivity -10000
 * oimon has a little snigger when people think my made-up-name account is a real person
<oimon> e.g. jacob jaguar , barry badger and tom cat
 * AlanBell suspects the .com file will just output 15b436de1f9107f3778aad525e5d0b20.js
<shauno> eh, I came across at chap by the name of "randy sailor".  I find most names believable now
<AlanBell> oh, maybe it outputs a word that you type into the page to get to the javascript
<dogmatic69> shauno: his parents must have a good sense of humor
<oimon> i knew a randy walerus too
<shauno> I believe it doesn't carry the same meaning in the US
<oimon> for their loss
<DJones> They're as good as the couple we had at work booking their honeymoon, it was a Miss O. Something was marrying a Mr Krap, I can't image anybody wanting to be known as "Mrs O Krap"
<popey> AlanBell: dosbox?
<shauno> why's deadbeef written big-endian?
<czajkowski> DJones: dr. I'm missing Mr. Krap
<czajkowski> sooo soo many jokes
<KrisDouglas> I cannot get my head around the ubuntu distro names, surely a panda is cuter than a pangolin.
<popey> they're not supposed to be cute
<popey> warthog?
<KrisDouglas> popey, but everyone knows cute is better :P
<popey> OSX Lion?
<KrisDouglas> lions are cute
<gordonjcp> lions are cute
<popey> small ones, yeah âº
<gordonjcp> big snuggly cats
<popey> âº
<KrisDouglas> Is there a document that actually explains the naming?
<AlanBell> ice cream sandwich
<popey> yes
<gordonjcp> you just don't want to encourage them to start play-fighting
<popey> mark explains each name in a blog post / mailing list post
<KrisDouglas> because I always get laughed at when someone hears the name of the current ubuntu release
<popey> or jono
<gordonjcp> need to make sure that they know you are the Big Cat and they are the Little Cats
<KrisDouglas> my grilfriend still loves that heron
<czajkowski> KrisDouglas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames
<popey> KrisDouglas: dont give the name then
<popey> use version numbersa
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: the heron graphic for the desktop was lovely
<gordonjcp> also
<popey> yeah, still the best t-shirt
<KrisDouglas> popey, in an office full of geeks they always ask me what the name is now
<AlanBell> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784
<KrisDouglas> it's a running joke
<gordonjcp> Heron-era Ubuntu had a way nicer colour scheme
<gordonjcp> the current colour scheme is frankly horrific
<DJones> KrisDouglas: If the ubuntu codenames are odd, try these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_kernel_names
<popey> see also fedora names
<popey> Beefy Miracle anyone?
<AlanBell> KrisDouglas: android has sillier names, osX has big cat names, fedora has ridiculous names
<gordonjcp> the white, grey and purple thing, jeez
 * BigRedS is currently using Squeeze and Wheezy :/
<gordonjcp> looks like my desktop has septicaemia
<DJones> beefy miracle sounds like Bovril
<KrisDouglas> I think the food names has worked really well for Android
<AlanBell> DJones: for reasons nobody understands beefy miracle is associated with a pork sausage in a bun
<KrisDouglas> food names have**
<czajkowski> KrisDouglas: ah yes cause who doesn't want to go to a sweet shop after reading them
<dogmatic69> :O Sheep on Meth
<czajkowski> I am not looking forward to Q name
<DJones> AlanBell: That must be something American
<KrisDouglas> I wish there was another release before the end of this year. Rabid Reindeer.
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames#Q  suggestions
<KrisDouglas> I had to skip Q because that one is rubbish
<KrisDouglas> Quail?
<popey> Quagga!
<czajkowski> KrisDouglas: oddly nobody has suggested reindeer for R
<KrisDouglas> I <3 reindeer.
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames#Q
<czajkowski> bah
<DJones> Quirky Quokka
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames#R
<quagga> yeah! Quagga!
<KrisDouglas> Randy Raccoon??
<czajkowski> no chinny raccoon :)
<czajkowski> as it should be from lugradio
<KrisDouglas> R should be roadrunner
<czajkowski> KrisDouglas: anyone can add suggestions to the wiki
<KrisDouglas> I will, trust me :)
<KrisDouglas> Ruthless Ringworm
<KrisDouglas> I can't see myself using an OS with that name :)
<KrisDouglas> Not that that has any real bearing on it
<oimon> i'm going to use beefy miracle even if it's rubbish
<gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: that doesn't fit the naming scheme
<gordonjcp> since ringworm is a fungal infection rather than actually a worm
<KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, foiled.
<KrisDouglas> oimon, what is beefy miracle?
<oimon> the next defora release Kri
<KrisDouglas> sounds like a newborn anal-dwelling buttmonkey.
<oimon> fedora
<MooDoo> o/ beefy miracle :D
<KrisDouglas> What was going though their minds when they thought of that?
<MooDoo> http://beefymiracle.org/
<MooDoo> hehe we had fun picking that one :d
<oimon> it's brilliant
<MooDoo> we had it before but it got rejected for previous releases :D
<oimon> better than all those poncey names
<KrisDouglas> All of the other options that people voted for were rubbish to be fair.
<oimon> does chromium have a master password thingy like firefox?
<popey> \o/ Jabber
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<gord> \o/ Jibber \o/
<brobostigon> xmmp ?
<daubers> \o/ jabber
<AlanBell> Quit yo . . .
<davmor2> popey: where's czajkowski I'll jab her :D
<MattJ> XMPP \o/
<MooDoo> davmor2: allow me sir, czajkowski jab jab jab jab jab
<czajkowski> davmor2: quit your jibber jabber you fool!
<davmor2> czajkowski: the irish Mrs T
<MooDoo> davmor2: i wouldn't mes..
<GrahamIRC> Hi all. Does anyone have any experience of 10Gig nics on Linux?
<MooDoo> that's just plain greedy :)
<GrahamIRC> haha
<daubers> GrahamIRC: In what way?
<GrahamIRC> actually I want them so I can do some iPerf testing of 10G links
<popey> heh
<GrahamIRC> so really just traffic generation
<popey> we had them at my last place of work
 * daubers has hundreds of them :)
<popey> we 'tested' them by rsyncing TB's of data over the wire
<daubers> I do something similar
<GrahamIRC> what nics did you use and what were your results?
<AlanBell> GrahamIRC: no, but I would imagine you want to increase your MTU to get the throughput
<daubers> Myricom ones are pretty good, have saturated supermicro ones (1090MB/s or there abouts)
<GrahamIRC> I've found some useful info on tuning - RWIN etc - but it's more NIC recommendations I'm looking for
<GrahamIRC> from what I've read the Intel ones are not ideal for iPerf type testing
<daubers> GrahamIRC: I've always stuck with supermicro (rebranded intel really, but cheaper than intel) or myricoms
<[DumB]SGR> mleh, default server connection fail.
<GrahamIRC> I seem to be having problems getting to the myricom sute at the mo
<daubers> hmmm odd
<GrahamIRC> I'm sure it'll reappear at some point!
<GrahamIRC> have you used them with RHEL?
<daubers> Mostly with Ubuntu, but some of our end users have RHEL stacks with theirs
<daubers> I think they had myricoms because they needed SFP+ type connections rather than CX4
<GrahamIRC> btw, there's lots of useful info here: http://fasterdata.es.net/
<GrahamIRC> yes I do really need SFP+ since these will be test boxes and will be moved around to test differing connections
<GrahamIRC> ok, I'll have a dig around the myricoms
<daubers> meh, (on the website) I've got a storage box that easily saturates the number of 10GbE cards I can get in the unit
<GrahamIRC> what's that?
<daubers> 24 SSD's with a funky raid setup. Suprising how many people will buy them for Â£30-40k
<GrahamIRC> :-)
<daubers> ran out of client machines when I hit ~6GB/s
<GrahamIRC> I've started using SSDs at home and they are definitely QUICK!
<MarquessDeBonBon> How quick are they?
<MooDoo> mine rocks
<GrahamIRC> on asus m/b getting around 300-400MB/sec
<GrahamIRC> and pretty much zero seek time which really helps
<popey> heh
<popey> i have no spinning rust in my machines now
<MooDoo> yaya
<popey> only servers have them
<MooDoo> yay i meant
<gord> popey, the water cooling thing work out okay?
<popey> no â¹
<popey> doesn't fit in my desktop
<GrahamIRC> hmm can anyone resolve myricom.com ?
<gord> ah that sucks, it didn't fit in my desktop either, but it was crampt in there anyway so i got a new case too
<gord> massive corsair thing, really nice, really spacey :)
<popey> heh
<gord> is it just the fan size?
<daubers> gord: You put your computer inside Kevin Spacey?
<popey> yeah, its too big for the back of the case
<gord> yeah same thing as me, oh well
<gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHi_nsofbhA is very nice if you want a case ;)
 * Laney wibbles
<Laney> http://open.spotify.com/track/4TPs7jNczGXpjYlc7HHeV7 Christmas song of the day
<Azelphur> Hmm, I'm running the Mono version of KeePass and it's really messed up half following my GTK theme
<Azelphur> anyone know how I might fix that?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] SlickPanel 0.02 Released! - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/slickpanel-0-02-released/
<awilkins> I need beer. And pizza.
<jutnux> I have tea but no food as of yet.
<awilkins> Something with pork meatballs and cheese
<awilkins> No chance for at least another hour
<awilkins> Frowny face.
<jutnux> Sucks to be you my friend.
<awilkins> Tram-gamble : win, I'll actually get home on time, hooray.
<jutnux> You at work awilkins?
<awilkins> Commuting home
<jutnux> Bus?
<jutnux> Or train?
<awilkins> Tram, ATM
<jutnux> Ah right.
<awilkins> Crossing Manchester to next train
<jutnux> Ah, take it you have a long commute.
<awilkins> 2:20
<awilkins> Happily don't do it much anymore.
<jutnux> Woahj
<jutnux> Woah
<jutnux> Lucky you have a laptop though ;)
<awilkins> This is my phone.
<jutnux> Ah.
<awilkins> Not enough space to get the lappy out usually
 * popey just commuted home
<popey> 10 feet or so
<popey> I'm _exhausted_!
<mgdm> how are you finding working from home?
 * mgdm is almost certain it wouldn't work for him
<popey> pretty good
<awilkins> 10 feet up a rope would be challenging
<popey> i go to the office now and then
<awilkins> I'm ok with it too,lall my games are on Windows
<awilkins> Well, not *all* my games.
<awilkins> Maybe they should just do a panopticon service for home workers - randomly illuminates your webcam light and yu're never sure when they are actually watching :)
<awilkins> I work better at home, really. Less distracting than our vast open plan shoutfest of an office.
<jutnux> Seeing that I don't have a job can't really comment
<jutnux> But I do work quite well at my own desk.
<popey> jutnux: looking for work? We're hiring! :D
<awilkins> popey: what are the requirements?
<popey> depends on the role
<popey> http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/careers
<awilkins> (checks mail)
<awilkins> Phooey, no response to application for Ubuntu One Windows dev.
 * Myrtti sighs
<awilkins> The channel with existing devs seems lively
<jutnux> popey: A bit too young, probably ;)
<jutnux> Enjoying the video though!
<awilkins> "At Canonical, we won't imprison you in the basement and feed you on rodent pellets."
<jutnux> Good god, installing XP. The shame ;)
<mgdm> I did that the other day (in a VM)
<awilkins> XP in a VM runs faster than our corporate install of XP on a real machine. Even when the host IS that machine.
<jutnux> Hah
<jutnux> Presumably they have a load of rubbish on there.
<jutnux> I'm doing it in a VM for a friend's mother who's scanner only works in XP.
<AlanBell> awilkins: not much basement on a 27th floor office
<czajkowski> http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/29/qa-installing-software-on-linux/
<smittix> Evening all
<smittix> Any wordpress users here?
<Darael> !anyone | smittix
<lubotu3> smittix: A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<smittix> meh
<Darael> Incidentally, I have a blog on wp.com as a gap-fill measure until I can get my ex-laptop server (where my wp.org install is hosted) back up, when I return to the UK.
<smittix> Was wondering if anyone here used any auto post to twitter plugins? I have tried two but they won't work even though they supposedly support 0auth.
<MartijnVdS> smittix: did you do the oauth dance?
<HOHOHaney> did you know that you can't donate blood if you've been to the states in the preceding 28 days
<HOHOHaney> i now do
<MartijnVdS> (click from your site to twitter and back with twitter asking for a password)
<MartijnVdS> HOHOHaney: Just in case you picked up Americanism
<smittix> Yeah.
<HOHOHaney> MartijnVdS: west nile virus apparently
<HOHOHaney> also this stupid nick doesn't have hilights
 * Myrtti drools
<Myrtti> making pearl barley pudding
<andyloughran> heylo
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<jutnux> HELLO
<jacobw> syn
<mgdm> ack
<andyloughran> rst
<jacobw> \o/
<andyloughran> It's a mini TCP party
<daubers> Hmm... new arduino UI is a bit ....... turquoise
<jacobw> what are all doing this evening?
<andyloughran> I've killed my server
<jacobw> whoops
<daubers> andyloughran: Shotgun out the back?
<andyloughran> been testing out percona
<andyloughran> the toolkit in particular
<jacobw> andyloughran: perhaps you need a juju charm to revive it :p
<andyloughran> it looked pretty good and want to use it for some proper production stuff
<andyloughran> anyone else got experience with it?
<andyloughran> mysql master->slave
<andyloughran> instead of just having the relay logs playing on the slave, you can get the servers to sync (through some clever script work) every X days.. if they're not already in sync (or to see if someone has accidentally written to the slave)
<andyloughran> some of the functionality is purely script-based (percona toolkit) but they've also released a mod of MySQL
<andyloughran> I'll take that as a no regards other's experience
<andyloughran> or at least those of you awake and reading my </monologue>
<andyloughran> not sure if it's quiet tonight or this IRC client is no good.
<AlanBell> its oh so quiet
<AlanBell> </bjork>
<andyloughran> ah ok
<jacobw> are there any gnome/gtk applications for reading epubs?
<andyloughran> jacobw: not that I can help you with
<AlanBell> jacobw: apt-cache search epub
<AlanBell> calibre is reputed to be good
<jacobw> i'm aware of calibre, i plan to use it manage my ebooks
<Azelphur> hmm, disk usage analyser is being funny. It says I have a 188.4GB home folder, but the contents add up to nowhere near that. The ring chart is actually only 50% of a ring
<Azelphur> what is this madness
<andyloughran> weird
<dwatkins> Azelphur: hidden files?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: seems like it's managing to read hidden files fine, maybe it's a permissions thing
<dwatkins> ah yes, I'd check with 'du' to be sure where the space is used.
<AlanBell> gvfs as well can confuse it
<jacobw> is it confused by soft/hard links?
<Azelphur> looks like it isn't showing files in the directoy
<Azelphur> directory*
<Azelphur> it's just showing folder sizes
<jacobw> afaik its only supposed to show directories
<Azelphur> that's kinda silly :P
<Azelphur> I love the way that Siri sneakily avoids the question when you ask it where it was made
<Azelphur> and replies with "I was designed in California by Apple"
<jacobw> can it do a 'portal' voice?
<Azelphur> xD
<popey> the uk version is female
<popey> or is it
<popey> no, other way round
<popey> I never use it
<shauno> it's a male voice in the UK .. but the only way to change voices, is to change localization :/
<popey> yeah
<shauno> hm, lucid wants to update grub again.  last time I let it touch grub, I was left unbootable :/
<Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSH6JgAQb14
<popey> you should hear that in the uk voice
<popey> very odd
<popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/daisy.ogg
<jacobw> lol
<Myrtti> popey: did I just hear you mutter under your breath :-D in the end of the recording
<Myrtti> ahhahahahahahahahhaa
<Myrtti> :-D
<Myrtti> naughty popey. tut-tut
<Azelphur> popey / Myrtti / jacobw android version of that http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/December%202011/singmeasong.ogg
<Azelphur> it's just like...what
<Azelphur> I think it's singing in Chinese or something haha
<shauno> that was .. rather unexpected
<Azelphur> haha
<shauno> and yeah .. daisy sounds really wrong with the 'daniel' voice
<Seeker`> uk siri voice is the announcer on weakest link
<shauno> I haven't even looked at upgrading yet.  I've got an awful feeling I'd end up having to use the US voiceset
<Azelphur> shauno: you know Siri just uploads the ogg to a remote server, and you can do the same thing on pretty much any phone? :D
<shauno> yeah
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-02
<AlanBell> is there a siri gtk app?
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> but most the reason I buy apple is because I want it to work out of the box.  I don't want to be proud of my duct-tape creation anymore
<Azelphur> AlanBell: dunno, wouldn't be that difficult to make one
<HOHOHaney> yeah, it would be cool to reverse engineer it
<AlanBell> it has been reverse engineered and documented somewhere I think
<AlanBell> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/11/a-look-at-how-applidium-reverse-engineered-siris-protocol.ars
<siya> Argh... Running 11.04 w GNOME3, not able to dist-upgrade to 11.10
<siya> Something about pinned packages (which I don't have) etc. Can't find any reason... :(
<siya> Anyone still awake out there w any clue?
<siya> "sudo aptitude remove nspluginwrapper" (got there by looking at the log files in /var/log/dist-upgrade/)
<popey> morning
<daubers> Morning
<popey> yo
<daubers> popey: You down with the kids now?
<DJones> Morning all
<popey> word
<danfish> morning
<danfish> a squirrel chewed through a piece of cat5 I've got on the outside of the house :(
<danfish> cat5 does not look in anyway nut-like
<danfish> must have been a myopic squirrel
<daubers> maybe it was expecting nuts over TCP?
<daubers> Or just wanted to steal your interwebs to buy nuts on ebay?
<MartijnVdS> Metal pipe \o/
<danfish> daubers: so if I open up the wifi for them thay should leave the cable alone!
<MartijnVdS> danfish: only if you tell them the passwords
<MartijnVdS> but you'd be nuts if you did that
<danfish> quite
<daubers> danfish: OR! You could just give them some nuts to go away
<daubers> Might be cheaper
<daubers> Or use PoE :D
<daubers> *nom* *nom* *nom* *BANG*
<MartijnVdS> PoE is great, I'm going to configure some PoE access points tomorrow :)
<MartijnVdS> Providing wifi to a camping in a forest
<danfish> daubers: haha
<MartijnVdS> daubers: too bad PoE is only 48V DC
<danfish> I wonder what squirrel tastes like?
<MartijnVdS> danfish: Nutty
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> it's a bit cold this morning :S
<danfish> crisp and sunny here :)
<MooDoo> cold on the bike :)
<oimon> i asked a question in the irc channel for a certain fashionable distro about how to check some settings, and got the fanboy answer, which was essentially, don't worry about it, $distro is $otherdistro done right!
<oimon> i found out that was certainly not the case
<danfish> ooh, nice. My current fav android ROM are getting their ICS build ready http://t.co/afzWeCfL
 * oimon wants ICS on touchpad NOW
 * MartijnVdS has ICS on his phone
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Galaxy Nexus
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: what phone and cm9?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Galaxy Nexus and stock firmware :)
<MooDoo> cool
<oimon> MartijnVdS: thoughts?
<MartijnVdS> It's huge :)
<MartijnVdS> but it's fast
<oimon> solves the android on tablet problem?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: it's a phone, not a tablet
<MartijnVdS> I don't have ICS on my Xoom yet
<MartijnVdS> But honeycomb on Xoom isn't bad either
<bigcalm> Oh sod
<bigcalm> I missed yesterday's meeting at lunchtime
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<bigcalm> What did I miss?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you got the taking-over-the-world bit?
<awilkins> Darn, my phone has been listening to this channel jabber all night
<bigcalm> I always thought that sabdfl was up to something
<awilkins> New router arrived.... Muahahahaha
<awilkins> Soon I will have 30Mbit/s of pulsating power bandwidth
<MartijnVdS> only 30? :P
<awilkins> I find 10 to be pretty luxurious
<awilkins> I got 30 because the download throttling thresholds are getting a bit low
<awilkins> And because my Mother-in-law doesn't hang round the house all day anymore so I saved money by cancelling the unlimited calling package
<awilkins> More bandwidth for less cash, bargain
<awilkins> Right, time to lose carrier
<JamesTait> Merry Friday, everyone! :D
<MooDoo> TFIF!!!
<daubers> Oooh, forgot about yesterdays meeting, was with a surveyor looking at a house
<JamesTait> MooDoo: That about sums it up, yes. :)
<monsterwizard> I didn't know Iran calls us Little Satan
<monsterwizard> it's kinda cute
<andyloughran> howdy
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski how are you this fine day?
<czajkowski> ntb
<czajkowski> just relaxing
<MooDoo> you in IE now or going later, can't remember what you said
<czajkowski> plans changed so stayed in London
<MooDoo> booooooo
<awilkins> Oooh.
<awilkins> Well, the web UI is very pretty on it
<andyloughran> heya
<andyloughran> awilkins: may I ask what (dont' have the scrollbag ability)
<awilkins> VirginMedia superhub
<awilkins> Heard mixed reports of it's goodness
<awilkins> TBH I'm not sure I want to give up my stalwart Buffalo running OpenWRT
<awilkins> I shall definitely need to work out how to keep my SSH server on it working
 * BigRedS has trouble believing anything from Virgin to be good
<awilkins> Muhahahah, 30Mbit/s down 3Mbit/s up
<awilkins> Ahem
 * awilkins gathers his composure
<awilkins> They did implement a "modem mode"
<awilkins> So you can just turn it into a dumb CM
<awilkins> Which I'm inclined to use from the get-go
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> i have mine in modem mode and use a different Wireless access point with mine
<awilkins> popey, I'm probably going to do the same, TBH.
<awilkins> popey, My existing access point is ancient and only supports ermmm. b?
<awilkins> I can't keep track of all these letters
<awilkins> But it runs OpenWRT nicely and gives me a SSH and WOL server
<awilkins> So I can pretty much get into anything on my network remotely from there, even if it's off
<awilkins> And apparently, my work laptop can't detect either of my access points now.. ?
<awilkins> Perhaps this is some unrelated thing
<awilkins> Or they are jamming each other
<popey> yeah, mine is a netgear wndr3700 running ddwrt
<awilkins> Hmm, laptop can't detect the neighbours routers either
<awilkins> I guess it's soft-borked or something
 * bigcalm detects poptarts and ingests
<awilkins> Ah, unplugging the wire has restored it's ability to see wireless
<Myrtti> OMG Harry Potter â¥ listening to the last few paragraphs of Deathly Hallows
<bigcalm> popey: every day is a slipper day
<awilkins> Survival instinct, I suppose. Or ICT have installed something to stop it bridging our network into a wireless access point
<gord> i just read an article that EA games has created a "subscription service" for tetris, being part of it you get an "xp booster" so you can "level up" faster... tetris changed from what i played as a kid didn't it.
<awilkins> gord, that HAS to be satire, surely?
<bigcalm> Oh my
<awilkins> Hmm. Superhub network connection 3 times faster than ancient router
<awilkins> (wireless)
<awilkins> Decisions, decisions
<awilkins> urrrrrrrgh
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I have slippers on right now
<AlanBell> (and other stuff, to be clear)
<awilkins> popey, Does your redirect DNS requests to a VM server if they fail?
<bigcalm> awilkins: when the superhub wigs out (and it will), do you want it to stop you from accessing the rest of the LAN at the same time?
<awilkins> popey, Or did it, before you put it into modem mode
<BigRedS> awilkins: that's an opt-out thing with VM AIUI
<bigcalm> AlanBell: phew
<BigRedS> AlanBell: Phwoar
<bigcalm> o.O
<daubers> gord: I remember playing tetris against my brothers with a cable connecting the two game boys
<popey> awilkins: i switched thet off
<awilkins> popey, Isn't that what earned Verizon so much ire.... honestly
 * popey shrugs
<popey> i switched it off and no longer care âº
<bigcalm> Same here
<awilkins> If it's mediated by the hub, it goes into modem mode tout suite
<popey> mediated?
<popey> it isnt, its a setting at the VM end which you can opt out of
<awilkins> Well, doesn't the hub do your DNS reqeusts?
<bigcalm> You have to enable/disable it via the VM site
<awilkins> Ah
<popey> and no, my modem doesnt do my dns requests
<bigcalm> You'll get a link to it upon the 1st DNS SNAFU
<popey> my desktop has dns servers setup directly
<bigcalm> I do like DHCP, it means I have to fiddle with the multitude of devices just a little bit less
 * awilkins turned it off
<awilkins> Yick
<Daviey> right, but you can put a different dns server in dhcp :)
<awilkins> That's better
<awilkins> That would have totally fubared some of my PAC scripts amongst other things
<bigcalm> I let my Linksys router handle DNS and DHCP
<Daviey> bigcalm: I thin you'll get crap odds on that bet!
<awilkins> Yup, all my IP addresses are defined in the hosts file of my router
<bigcalm> Daviey: its running ddwrt, I'm happy
<awilkins> Fill up /etc/hosts and /etc/ethers and wake-on-lan works very nicely
<Daviey> bigcalm: Are you using ipv6?
<awilkins> Do VM even offer IPv6?
<bigcalm> Daviey: not yet, no
<bigcalm> awilkins: no
<awilkins> Or do you have to fuddle with tunnels
<Daviey> bigcalm: you used to be cool, not now.
<bigcalm> Haha
<oimon> youtube changed the homepage and doesn't let me remove alan pope's poledancing video from my front page :(
<danhg_> mrevell
<bigcalm> Computers are a tool for me these days. My tinkering days are a little behind me
<mrevell> Hey danhg_
<awilkins> Well, modem mode, here we go. Back in a mo.
<awilkins> (dem)
<bigcalm> :)
<andyloughran> I'm upgrading to the VM SuperHub on the 7th Dec.
<andyloughran> Currently still using a Surfboard 4100
<bigcalm> andyloughran: and the 1st thing you'll do is switch it into modem only mode? ;)
<andyloughran> I need to read back through the conversation
 * andyloughran doesn't have the benefit of scrollback
<andyloughran> er - any particular reason why?
 * HOHOHaney hasn't felt the need to do that yet
<awilkins> It seems modem-mode involves reflashing the firmware, it's been downloading something for some time now.....
<awilkins> Thank heavens for 3G
<greg__> just joined, you referrinf to the superhub?
<awilkins> Yes
<popey> 15
<popey> bah
<greg__> awilkins I asked to join the beta test  team on the virgin media forums, I have had it for a while
<awilkins> Modem mode was just there in the options, didn't want to have to reconfigure all my network
<awilkins> ... still downloading
<Myrtti> popey: how long has it been again since I've last declared my undying love to you? â¥ (re: mailing list)
<popey> haha
<MooDoo> o_O
 * Myrtti bows to popey 
<MooDoo> steady on Myrtti you'll give him a big head
<Myrtti> MooDoo: I thought his hairdo takes care of that already
<Myrtti> no need for me to do anything
<MooDoo> you being nice will make it bigger lol
<Myrtti> MooDoo: he knows me and knows what I mean, I doubt it really has any effect on his head
<MooDoo> Myrtti: i know i'm just teasing :)
<bigcalm> Indeed, nice post
<popey> borders on STFU but hey ho
<BigRedS> Oooh. A mailing list post about Unity. Fancy that :)
<davmor2> morning funksters
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<HOHOHaney> THAT'S IT, I'M MOVING TO ARCH!
<BigRedS> Nono, it's Mint this month
<andyloughran> :p
<czajkowski> davmor2: brat
<oimon> i'm on using linux munge..new distro - heard of it?
<davmor2> HOHOHaney: No be a rebel use Ubuntu
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski do you two need to go on the naughtystep?
<MooDoo> FEDORA ftw!
 * HOHOHaney ho ho ho
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm already there dude
<MooDoo> hehe
<HOHOHaney> http://open.spotify.com/track/5T9bJG4tMNms1fsib8Azvq :3 Christmas song of the day
<HOHOHaney> not terrible like yesterday's, promise
<davmor2> HOHOHaney: I bet it is
 * HOHOHaney sulks
<daubers> Oooh, I saw emmy the great live a couple of years ago
<Myrtti> you know what's really funny tho
<Myrtti> I've used Xubuntu for years
<MooDoo> Myrtti: lee evans?
<davmor2> My xmas pick for the day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tNbsQ8eDbA
<HOHOHaney> I saw her live a month or so ago
<Myrtti> with 11.10 I moved back to Ubuntu :-D
<HOHOHaney> was good
<bigcalm> Myrtti: you don't need multi monitor support then? :)
<Myrtti> bigcalm: no, but on the tablet Unity/GnomeShell are quite nice. Better than Gnome2, but still need work
<Myrtti> and then Unity grew on me and I decided to have it on the laptop as well
<daubers> bigcalm: I use unity on multi monitors.....
<bigcalm> I agree. And I'm looking forward to returning to Unity once I can use it on 3 monitors without it being silly
<davmor2> bigcalm: I saw the demo of the upcoming multimonitor support trust me it will be AWESOME!
 * daubers obviously uses his monitors wrong compared to everyone else
<bigcalm> davmor2: goodo :)
<bigcalm> daubers: how so?
 * HOHOHaney sits atop his xmonad-built ivory tower
<HOHOHaney> still figuring out multi-montior support down there?
<davmor2> czajkowski: by the way you'll like my xmas pick
 * HOHOHaney quaffs some port
<daubers> bigcalm: People complain about multimonitor support, but I've not had an issue.....
<bigcalm> My added complication is my 2nd monitor is rotated 90 deg
<Myrtti> daubers: Intel or AMD?
<BigRedS> I always think that if X Just Worked it'd take a lot of the fun out of Linux for many people
<daubers> Myrtti: nvidia
<Myrtti> ooo, you're speshul
<bigcalm> nvidia is special? I have 2 nvidia gfx cards in this machine to get something close to what I need
<gord> multimonitor works pretty well on my nvidia system and intel :(
<gord> easier to fix things when they break for you too
<daubers> gord: We must be doing it wrong or something
<gord> the process kind of sucks on everything though, i just want to plug in a second monitor and have everything magically work
<daubers> if wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak
<oimon> anyone else tried the unity launcher on the bottom yet?
<oimon> here it is in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYH13qQZZe8
<MooDoo> think i quite like it at the bottom
<oimon> me too
<oimon> it's the small things that make some people happy :)
<popey> oimon: what resolution is your screen?
<oimon> thats my kitchen sink box
<oimon> probably 1280x1024
<oimon> it's got every DE going installed on it
<popey> heh
<popey> mine's 1920x1080, makes no sense having the launcher at the bottom
<oimon> my other box is 1920x1080
<oimon> my docky is at the bottom on it
<oimon> i tried docky on the side and hated it
<dwatkins> What's a DE, oimon?
<dwatkins> desktop extension?
<oimon> desktop environment, e.g. LXDE, Gnome, KDE, etc
<dwatkins> ah I see
<dwatkins> What about fvwm, twm, xfce and cde? ;)
<oimon> i have xfce on there too :)
<dwatkins> oh, and 4Dwm...
<oimon> as we approach 12.04 LTS i am trying to decide which distro and DE i will go forward with on my machines
<oimon> lucid has served me well
<oimon> but i have tons of PPAs
<Myrtti> funkyHat: fixed the connection yet?
<oimon> gnome shell is about to become usable with the extensions so i am tempted
<funkyHat> Myrtti: it's not a connection issue, I haven't figured out what it is yet though
<Myrtti> you just flooded all my channels so much I lost track on which channel I'm on
<funkyHat> â¢( sorry
 * dwatkins has joins, parts, quits on ignore in most places 
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> I do also
<dwatkins> occasionally I'm talking to someone and they disappear, reboot etc. but tab-complete is enough to let me check someone's online.
<czajkowski> nods
<Myrtti> I find it difficult to be an op with having them ignored
<Myrtti> so I don't
<gord> same reason
<gord> plus its not too big of an issue 95% of the time
<funkyHat> After my server reboots irssi seems to go a bit mad. It seems to get started up more than once, then the instances fight each other for my nicks... I guess
<czajkowski> Myrtti: per channel might help, unless you're an op in here
<dwatkins> Myrtti: what sorts of things do you need them for, and could you have two logins, one you rarely use but that has them enabled?
<funkyHat> I'm not sure why it gets started up more than once
<Myrtti> I don't have them showing up in my irssi status bar tho
<czajkowski> ah ok
<Myrtti> czajkowski: I'm an op on all the channels we share and he flooded in
<Myrtti> including this
<czajkowski> nods
<Myrtti> dwatkins: two logins is too much of a hassle, it's not too bad usually. Need to check for joinfloods, banevasion etc
<dwatkins> ah I see, yes
<dwatkins> I used to keep a 2nd login to a channel I'm an op on in case I needed to check when someone went on/offline
<dwatkins> I guess we don't get much ban-evasion there, and when we do it's pretty obvious from the username etc.
<gord> irc proxies \o/
<dwatkins> gord: you mean like running irssi inside a screen session on the other side of the atlantic... *whistles*
<gord> dwatkins, i mean like running znc or something :) something you connect something else like irssi or xchat or whatever to
<gord> irssi has a proxy mode itself, its pretty crap though
<Myrtti> I use the proxy mode to use with a mobile phone client
<dwatkins> not tried that yet
<Myrtti> haven't for a long time tho, irssi connectbot is such a nice ssh app so it doesn't really matter anymore
<dwatkins> I like it when code.google.com pages have a qrcode on them :)
<gord> is that like an android market link or something?
<dwatkins> yeah, like this: http://code.google.com/p/irssi-connectbot/
<funkyHat> I use the regular connectbot with a saved thing for irssi
<dwatkins> strange, it doesn't actually work, but I like the idea
<Myrtti> oh man, I feel blue now
<MartijnVdS> da ba dee?
<Myrtti> Harry Potter ;____;
<czajkowski> aye irssi connectbot is excellent
<dwatkins> I enjoyed the last HP film, the one before it was rather meh, though.
<czajkowski> I'm just glad it's all over tbh
<dwatkins> Also, what's with them touting 3D everywhere?
<czajkowski> dwatkins: aye why do all films now have to be in Â£D
<dwatkins> czajkowski: yeah, to be honest, I was a little glad of that side of ti too.
<czajkowski> 3D
<czajkowski> I get that its funky and nice to do
<czajkowski> but really.... most films dont do it well
<dwatkins> czajkowski: I think it's the film industry trying to attract people back to the cinema instead of staying at home watching HD movies on their plasma TV
<gord> i just bought a bunch of 3d movies :P
<gord> for my hd 3d tv!
<czajkowski> gord: you would
<czajkowski> :)
 * gord stays at home
<dwatkins> gord: do you require glasses to watch them?
<gord> yup
<MartijnVdS> My TV is 3D-capable, but I don't have 3D glasses
<Myrtti> I don't think I've seen any of the movies past HP2
<MartijnVdS> So no 3D for me
<MartijnVdS> also, headaches
<dwatkins> what happens if there are more people than glasses?
<gord> i get that some people don't like glasses, thats fine, whatever, i don't mind :)
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: so why on earth dd you buy one
<Myrtti> have tried to have read the book before the movie and I just finished 6 and 7 this week
<gord> they are damn expensive... stood on one once, whoops, Â£100 down the drain
<czajkowski> gord: blame the cat next time
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: The TV is fine, it just didn't come with 3D glasses :)
<Myrtti> I hugely dislike the 3D movies in the cinema
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: it just has the option for 3D if you decide to buy  glasses later
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: main reason is the built in satellite tuner though :)
<czajkowski> Avatar was the best still by far
<czajkowski> all others have been a massive let down
<gord> to be honest movies still aren't that great in 3D, there are a few that are absolutely fantastic, but not many. video games are good with 3d :)
<dwatkins> I find 3D tends to be badly adjusted in cinemas so there's bleed-through from one eye's image to the other
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that might explain the headaches
<gord> most cinema's will also use regular bulbs instead of the once that are twice as bright, which you need for 3d.. so you get a dim image
<Myrtti> oh dear
<Myrtti> just had to check how much the audiobooks would be as CDs
<Myrtti> what a ripoff
<dwatkins> ah that's why it's a bit dim, thanks gord
<czajkowski> really hope they don't ruin pirates of the Caribean by doing 3D in the future
 * Myrtti spanks gord for a typo
<gord> czajkowski, 4 was 3D
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: But JK Rowling and Stephen Fry have to eat too!
<czajkowski> gord: ahhh ddidnt notice that
<gord> ones/once. same thing!
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I know, that's why I thought of buying them
<Myrtti> gord: tis not
<czajkowski> ohh I'd listen to stephen fry tell a story
<czajkowski> nice soothing voice
<gord> czajkowski, to be honest... three already ruined pirates of the Caribbean ;) that was a hard movie to make it through...
<czajkowski> gord: shush or no bickies for you
<Myrtti> perhaps I'll just save up to get them on Audible
<dwatkins> I listen to a lot of audio books driving between Edinburgh and London, you can pay 4 pounds a month for a subscription to audible.co.uk and get one free audio book a month.
<awilkins> Hmm, the red light and misleading uplink flashing wasn't the modem getting a new firmware.
<dwatkins> saves a lot, that
<czajkowski> wow ubuntu-uk ml is rather talkative this morning
<awilkins> Just needed to reboot my router to get DHCP address
<awilkins> Grragh, just sat waiting for an hour for no reason <-- plonker
<Myrtti> dwatkins: yeah, I had that for some time but I've cut my excess spending since - I've got loads of audiobooks still in there that I haven't finished so I'm not terribly worried
<dwatkins> Myrtti: yeah, I have about 4 credits yet to use, but am taking the train there tonight, so may get another one for this trip.
<Myrtti> now the only splurge I allow myself is Spotify, partly because a friend gave me 40EUR as a present on paypal that had nothing else than spotify payments
<popey> my tolerance for ubuntu haters is low today âº
<czajkowski> popey: nice replay re trademarks
<czajkowski> only issue I have with them is it takes more than a week to get a reply from them. but it is the only place to get a definate reply and ok from
<dwatkins> Myrtti: I'm fearful of Spotify, if you stop subscribing don't you lose your music?
<popey> yes dwatkins
<popey> but it's not your music anyway âº
<popey> no commerical music ever really is
<Myrtti> dwatkins: one of the reasons I keep paying for it, but it doesn't matter to me that much anyway - I know I could get the music cheaper somewhere else - it's the ease of user experience that I pay for
<Myrtti> a) 95% of the time everything I look for is in Spotify and I don't have to look anywhere else 2) it works on my Ubuntu 3) it works on my phone 4) I can make my own playlists and share them
<Myrtti> for the same reason I've paid for audible, last.fm and other services in the past
<dwatkins> I considered investigating Spotify, Sky Music etc. but havn't done so yet.
<dwatkins> I bought an album by Feist because of the song 1,2,3,4, then realised I prefer the version she did on Sesame Street ;)
<Daviey> popey: but it's not free software!11!
<Myrtti> shock horror
<Myrtti> news at 11
<dwatkins> I know I don't own the music on my phone/mp3 player, but I like to be able to listen to it when the label has gone bust or I'm in a tunnel ;)
<DJones> Anybody interested in these games? http://marathon.sourceforge.net/
<andylock1an> wow
<andylock1an> :D
<andylock1an> he's back :D
<andylock1an> :D
<Myrtti> dwatkins: I happily use Spotify offline
<andylockran> well that was a bit of hassle
<Myrtti> *phew*
<andylockran> yeah
<Myrtti> that was a display of *why* I don't ignore joins and quits and such
<andylockran> how come?
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: ?
<Myrtti> `-` joined pretty much all the ubuntu channels there are
<Myrtti> excess flooded themselves out on the first attempt to announce the world that #ubuntu ops suck, but eventually got k-lined
<Myrtti> amazing how much excess time and malice people have in the world
<davmor2> gord: I think it's gonna be cancelled for december we'll sort out a date for January instead
<gord> davmor2, no prob, platform rally in early jan though remember
<davmor2> gord: we can make it latter it was only early to catter for xmas and parties ect
<gord> yeah
<Myrtti> is there any kind of clipboard management for Ubuntu 11.10?
<Myrtti> or something that you'd recommend?
<gord> my dash tells me that klipper exists, it has 3/5 stars on software centre
<Myrtti> klipper sounds like a KDE thing
<gord> it does ;) it is!
<gord> maybe glipper?
<gord> is that a thing?
<Myrtti> I'll have a look at clipit and glipper then
<popey> /4/27
<popey> bah!
<awilkins> Did you just accidentally post the Pangolin release date?   :-p
<gord> thats the 26th :P
<Myrtti> clipit seems to be exactly what I was looking for
<dwatkins> Myrtti: yeah, I meant in terms of the streaming-only alternatives, I appreciate you can use Spotify via the app offline if you still have a subscription :)
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k-QuvfednM  I made a video!
<dwatkins> you make it sound so simple, popey :)
<dwatkins> do people ask questions on this?
<andylockran> yeah
<dwatkins> I'm surprised, although I admit I wasn't aware it actually existed.
<gord> popey, might want to use the hd version when linking people to it so its not in blur-o-vision. its mostly static images so the hd version doesn't take up much bandwidth
<popey> gord: I'd rather let people choose resolution themselves
<popey> if they full screen it then yt will auto switch to HD anyway wont it?
<popey> good point tho, ta âº
<gord> depends on their settings, some of us (me) disable that because when i switch to fullscreen it goes to a video format that my connection can't handle
<popey> ah
<popey> i didnt know you could override that
 * daubers mqtt-ises a few workshop tools
<andylockran> gord: you should do a screencast on it - make it recursive!
<AlanBell> did youtube just get a lot better?
<dwatkins> they changed the theme
<dwatkins> it may also have html5 enabled now
<dwatkins> not sure if that's still in beta
<AlanBell> resizing stuff and resolutions seem to have some relationship now, and you can select the resolution when fullscreened
<dogmatic69> i have a dir, that when cd into, crashes my pc. load average hits 50 / 60 and ram shoots right up to 4gigs
<dogmatic69> any way i can see what is going on in there?
<dogmatic69> its a git repo
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I'd force an fsck on the next boot
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what kind of fs are you using?
<dogmatic69> default
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: ext3? ext4?
<dogmatic69> i done sudo su www-data then cd there and its not as bad, still crashed when i did git status
<dogmatic69> how could i check that?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: "mount"
<dogmatic69> sda1 is ext4
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: sudo touch /forcefsck
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: then reboot
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: if it's a separate partition, unmount it and fsck
<dogmatic69> k, thanks.. brb (if this does not take 5 years)
<dogmatic69> that was quick, no errors
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: http://i.imgur.com/rc9Ql.png
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what kind of git repo is it?
<dogmatic69> just some work code, php
<dogmatic69> with some submodules
<Myrtti> oh man I really really hate Gwibber
<oimon> Myrtti: does it still suck after the re-write
<Myrtti> well it sucks bowling balls on 11.10
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what happens if you create a fresh clone somewhere?
<oimon> wow, how sad
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: does that also exhibit that problem?
<oimon> i'm still using hotot quite happily for my twitter requirements
<davmor2> Myrtti: so add bugs to improve it
 * MartijnVdS uses chrom
<MartijnVdS> e
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: no, then its fine
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: OK, do that, remove the old tree and replace with fresh clone
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you did the fsck?
<Myrtti> davmor2: it doesn't take away the pain of using it *now* though :-<
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: there is a branch on the old one that i need
<Myrtti> perhaps I'll just ... suffer Tweetdeck on Chrome again
<dogmatic69> fsck ran fine
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: try it from a live CD, maybe that works.
<dogmatic69> hmm
<davmor2> Myrtti: agreed but it will make it less painful for 12.04 maybe
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: Different version of Ubuntu (= different version of FS code)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I have no idea
<dogmatic69> fsck from live cd?
<dogmatic69> or view the repo from a live cd
<gord> just had to google for the command to make a tar file... how do i even get anything done on linux
<kirrus> gord: by googling? :P
<Myrtti> hm, is it possible to make the workspace switcher to wrap around in 11.10?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a quick Python query...
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a string: 12345:09876
<TheOpenSourcerer> I want to return only the bit left of the colon.
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: using git --git-dir=... i was able to see what is going on. just ditched all the unstaged changes and now i can cd in without the system crashing but terminal is hanging still
<deej1976> Myrtti: not in ubuntu by default http://mein-neues-blog.de/xplanetFX/
<dogmatic69> memory usage is going up slowly and load average still at 0.5
<dogmatic69> getting there slowly
<dogmatic69> think i found the issue... http://i.imgur.com/AJ10h.jpg
<fwereade_> TheOpenSourcerer, s.split(":")[0]
<TheOpenSourcerer> fwereade_: Yeah - Thanks. Just worked it out too :-)
<fwereade_> TheOpenSourcerer, cool :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> fwereade_: OK - It's a bit more complicated than I thought. ;-) My string could actually look like this "12345:09876 : ABCDEFG"
<TheOpenSourcerer> I want to split and return everything left of the <space:<space> bit.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just tried split(' : ') but that still split on the first colon
<fwereade_> TheOpenSourcerer, that's odd:
<fwereade_> >>> "foo:bar : hcde:jeoi".split(" : ")[0]
<fwereade_> 'foo:bar'
<AlanBell> split('abc') splits on a and b and c, not the string 'abc'
<AlanBell> I think
<fwereade_> >>> "helloabchello".split("abc")
<fwereade_> ['hello', 'hello']
<fwereade_> >>> "helloabchello".split("cba")
<fwereade_> ['helloabchello']
<fwereade_> >>>
<AlanBell> no, I am wong, don't mind me
<TheOpenSourcerer> fwereade_: You are right. Just tried it in a python console and it works.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Better check my template... Probably typo.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yay! My bad - that works!
<daubers> woo!!
<daubers> Things in the workshop tell me when they're finished now :)
<danfish> daubers: mqtt?
<matti> ;]
<matti> TheOpenSourcerer: <ruby lover mode> Try Ruby ;p </ruby lover mode>
<daubers> danfish: Indeed :)
<danfish> yeh!
<TheOpenSourcerer> matti: I have to use Python for that one.
<matti> TheOpenSourcerer: :)
<danfish> daubers: just need a nanode mqtt port now
<daubers> danfish: Yeah, that'll take a long while as memory on the chip the nanode uses for ethernet is a bit lacking
<danfish> ah - didn't realise that was the reason
<daubers> danfish: Did get my first arduino ethernet today though \o/
<danfish> excellent. knolleary's update the client for that one IIRC
<daubers> danfish: This was from a discussion I had with someone http://groups.google.com/group/reading-hackspace/msg/ff54bb13cb211c0d states the exact problem
<daubers> danfish: He has! It's the same wiznet chip on the arduino ethernet shield, it's more an update for the arduino 1.0 IDE
<danfish> hmm whether to get a nanode rf....or a raspberry pi?
<daubers> (raspberry pi)
<daubers> I really want an Arduino Due as I have a project that will benefit from the extra processing umpf of the ARM chip
<daubers> but they're not out yet :(
<monsterwizard> oooo  Ardunio user
<monsterwizard> What projects have you made?
<daubers> Mostly toys or simple sensor rigs
<danfish> I missed the announcement about the Due
<daubers> It was part of the makerfaire announcements
<danfish> monsterwizard: some home automation/monitoting stuff
<daubers> I might try and through together an MQTT over easyradio library
<monsterwizard> oh sweet
<daubers> EasyRadio's are expensive :( But so very very easy to use
<monsterwizard> danfish where do you buy your electronics?
<MooDoo> http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/01/geeks-lose-minds-recreate-first-level-of-super-mario-land-with/
<MooDoo> awesome, minecraft mario :D
<danfish> monsterwizard: a number of places - rapid, coolcomponents, proto-pic
<scoundrel50a> ok, I am running Ubuntu 11.10 on a Lenovo laptop, and had a problem with an upgrade which caused me to loose the desktop, which was a whilst it was in Beta. I had to create a new User and things are working ok. I log in using the new username and password, but when I go to open Synaptic, it shows my old username on the pop up password box, and wants my old details, even though I no longer have that username and password, would anybody know
<scoundrel50a>  why this is happening.
<AlanBell> hi scoundrel50a
<bigcalm> The old user has the uid of 1000?
<bigcalm> Is your new user in the sudo list?
<AlanBell> new user isn't in sudoers
<bigcalm> (doubt that'll make a difference though)
<AlanBell> or isn't in the admin group
<bigcalm> Listen to AlanBell
 * bigcalm goes back to stabbing SQL
<AlanBell> that will be it, it is like my kids computers want me to log in to do updates because they are not admins
<AlanBell> scoundrel50a: ok, so if you run the users and groups tool (just type "user" in the dash and it should find it)
<AlanBell> then click your new user then click advanced
<AlanBell> you will have to log in as the old user at this point
<scoundrel50a> ok, will take a look now, one sec
<AlanBell> then on the user priviledges tab click the administer the system checkbox and anything else you feel like ticking there
<scoundrel50a> ok, where do you find that in Ubuntu 11.10. I dont see it anywhere
<daubers> scoundrel50a: Are you in the users tool?
<daubers> or trying to find it?
<scoundrel50a> daubers: no cant find the users tool
<daubers> scoundrel50a: Ok, if you open the dash (the Unity thing that lets you search) and just type users it should appear in the list
 * AlanBell goes to cook sausages, it is there somewhere in the dash scoundrel50a 
<AlanBell> ooh, is it not because you are not an admin??
<AlanBell> someone carry on with this . . .
<daubers> Should still appear shouldn't it?
<scoundrel50a> there is user accounts, and it has my name as admin, but I cant do anything with it, I cant do what you said with it, its not like the old version
<daubers> scoundrel50a: Hang on, let me upload a screenshot to make sure we're looking at the same thing
<scoundrel50a> I can do that in 10.10.not 11.10 it is different
<andylockran> lol, I need a guru :p
<andylockran> a MySQL guru..
<andylockran> for hire :D
<daubers> scoundrel50a: Are you seeing this window?
<daubers> http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=5848
<daubers> (if so I think this is the wrong tool.... but we'll get there in a moment)
<scoundrel50a> yes, but you cant get in any further, it doesnt allow, or at least I cant find a way in
<daubers> ok
<daubers> when you type users in the dash, there should be another one called "Users and Groups"?
<czajkowski> nods
<scoundrel50a> I enter my log in details but it doesnt give any more options to do what you suggested
<daubers> rather than user accounts
<scoundrel50a> nope
<scoundrel50a> not there
<scoundrel50a> not in my 11.10
<czajkowski> scoundrel50a: hmm I'm seeing it here in 11.10
<scoundrel50a> ok I typed users and groups in and nothing comes up,
<scoundrel50a> so where has Users and Groups gone, and how do I get it back
<AlanBell> that is a bit of a puzzle
<popey> its called user accounts
<popey> not users and groups
<daubers> popey: They're different UI's
<scoundrel50a> ok, I have user accounts.....but there are no Privalages options in it
<scoundrel50a> even if I enter the password
<daubers> scoundrel50a: Are you set as an administrator in that UI?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Of course you could just type: sudo usermod -a -G admin username
<scoundrel50a> ok, one sec, I'll see if I can get an image of what I see and show you
<daubers> Thanks :)
<AlanBell> su oldname first
<daubers> AlanBell: We should check he's not in the admin group first
<daubers> double check even
<AlanBell> ok
 * daubers needs to disappear to a squash game
<daubers> can somone carry on with this please?
<scoundrel50a> sorry, can work out in 11.10 how to take screen shot
<daubers> scoundrel50a: There's a screenshot tool
<daubers> scoundrel50a: Throw screenshot in the dash and it should popup
<scoundrel50a> flippin heck, that was hard work, http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=5849
<scoundrel50a> bottom name not locked
<daubers> scoundrel50a: can you run users-admin from a terminal please?
<scoundrel50a> ok, need to install it, give me a sec
<daubers> ok, that's the users and groups tool me and AlanBell were thinking of
<scoundrel50a> ah
<daubers> I really have to vanish or I'm going to be late, but hopefully someone else can continue with you if you get stuck in that tool
<scoundrel50a> ok
<scoundrel50a> thank you so much for your help
<daubers> Hope you get it fixed :)
<scoundrel50a> yay, I got it back
<scoundrel50a> I have this in 10.10
<scoundrel50a> where is Synaptic in Users and Admin, Synaptic is calling my old username and password
<scoundrel50a> ok, I will give it another go, I added my name as admin, see if it works
<scoundrel50a> need to reboot, brb
<scoundrel50a> nope, that didnt work, Synaptic is still asking for my old password, it has called my old uesrname
<scoundrel50a> I cant get into Synaptic because of it
<scoundrel50a> I can update using the updater, and via the terminal
<scoundrel50a> the only way I can get into Synaptic is if I open run as root, enter Synaptic into it, and then it accepts my new password
<scoundrel50a> and then it opens
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> would you be able to advise me about a pdf reader with advanced features such as highlighting bookmarking etc?
<scoundrel50a> ok, it seems I looked in the Users and Groups section, and it seems that both accounts point to the old username and password, even though logging in I can use the new uesrname and password
<scoundrel50a> very odd
 * AlanBell returns with a tummy full of sausages
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> yummy.
<pr0ph3t> any suggestions about the pdf reader of my dreams? possibly for free!
<pr0ph3t> (it is for Ubuntu if anyone is wondering)
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: file bugs against evince
 * AlanBell wonders if scoundrel50a had ubuntu-desktop installed
<AlanBell> certainly things adrift if user-admin was not installed
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, you can't highlight with evince though you can bookmark pages
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: so file a bug against evince saying you can't highlight stuff with it
<pr0ph3t> my ezPDF reader on my android phone is super
<pr0ph3t> that a bug?
<AlanBell> sure, if it isn't as awesome as you want it to be then it's lack of awesomeness is a fixable bug
<AlanBell> it is a feature request really, but they all go in as bugs
<AlanBell> ubuntu-bug evince
<pr0ph3t> plus I'll get karma!
<jutnux> Mmmmm clotted cream ice cream!
<pr0ph3t> Bug #656363
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 656363 in evince (Ubuntu) "missing 2.32 feature: add annotations" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656363
<pr0ph3t> I don't see that fix and I'm using Oneric Ocelot
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: good question
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: works for me!
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: ok, so in the help for evince it tells you how to do it, in the sidebar select annotations, then add, then select the thing you want to annotate, it works for me
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, that's cool, but how about underlining etc, is that possible?
<AlanBell> dunno, I have never ever annotated a PDF before, still not quite sure why you would want to!
<Myrtti> how annoying, on oneiric my laptop resets the display brightness after every time the screen has gone blank
<czajkowski> dinner has been ordered
<czajkowski> yay
 * popey goes to obtain curry
<czajkowski> pr0ph3t: what we ordered also
<czajkowski> 45mins and counting
<czajkowski> popey:
<czajkowski> damn tab completion
<pr0ph3t> so it's curry tonight
 * AlanBell had sausages
<davmor2> we had pizza
<AlanBell> and now has beer
 * davmor2 is now working again
 * jutnux had pot noodle. "luvin lyfe 2k11"
<MartijnVdS> \o/ proper patch panel installed
<davmor2> pr0ph3t: for a mere $60 you can install Q PDF Studio from Software Center and it will be able to do anything you need to a pdf :)
<jutnux> Mere?
 * davmor2 waits to hear the thump of pr0ph3t 's jaw hitting the floor
<jutnux> Ah
<zleap> this wrong direction thread on the list is good
<davmor2> jutnux: in comparison to Adobe PDF tools at $200+ yeap mere
<pr0ph3t> what's that in pounds? 5 quid?
<jutnux> My school has PDF tools
<jutnux> I fail to see what it is good for
<davmor2> pr0ph3t: about Â£40
<jutnux> Other than printing PDFs, which PDFCreator does on Winslows and what you can do on Ubuntu anyway
<davmor2> jutnux: I know it's aim at professionals rather than you're average user :)
<pr0ph3t> I see interesting
<jutnux> davmor2: Haha, don't really have a use for PDFs to be honest ;)
<pr0ph3t> - illegal comments censored -
<pr0ph3t> online somewhere
<davmor2> jutnux: the big advantage for Office users is they can create a pdf form that can be published online the results saved and signed as pdf and therefore a binding contract etc so it does have uses but again I'm guessing more of a pro thing than you're average joe tool :)
<jutnux> I'm on Ubuntu so I guess I don't have uses for that ;)
<czajkowski> jutnux: some offices use Ubuntu and may need it :)
<jutnux> Probably, ah well - the wonders of being young and not having a job 'ey?
<jutnux> So how are we all?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: bastubis tells me that charities need PDF form stuff for grant applications. Can't say I have ever come across a PDF form myself
<czajkowski> AlanBell: bastubis
<AlanBell> generally people want PDF to be for output they don't want other people to mess with, like invoices
<AlanBell> czajkowski: Paula, that is her IRC nick
<czajkowski> ahhh
<AlanBell> I have no idea why
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye my old place in ie used to have an online form but really it was the back end of a pdf
<czajkowski> http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/39826/  folks might find this an interesting read
<AlanBell> read it :)
<AlanBell> funnily enough
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> in between all of the emails today
<czajkowski> how ever did you find time
<AlanBell> read it months ago!
 * TheOpenSourcerer had fish fingers & mash earlier and will be going out for a curry later :-)
<czajkowski> gah 15 more mins for dinner to arrive
<czajkowski> please hurry up
<AlanBell> czajkowski: looks like they lost the argument about stamping "unclassified" on every page!
<czajkowski> eh ?
<AlanBell> the LSE report, the cabinet office lawyers interfered with it
<czajkowski> oh lovely
<AlanBell> I think they only did that, plus decided they wanted copyright to HMSO or something, the license is their version of creative commons
<AlanBell> (c) 2011 Queen's Printer and Controller from HMSO
<czajkowski> ahh I see
<czajkowski> huzzah! dinner has arrived
<AlanBell> oh /o\ conflicting permissions on that LSE stuff on page 1
<AlanBell> and a typo on the link to the OGL
 * AlanBell goes to send an email
<AlanBell> twice!!
<MartijnVdS> And once the next morning!
<AlanBell> it was all spelled correctly in the draft that was CC licensed
<popey> quiet evening âº
 * popey tickles daubers 
 * bigcalm scribbles in his journal
 * Myrtti considers sleep
 * popey considers google hangout
<bigcalm> I thought your webcam didn't work
<popey> i have two
<popey> the 12.04 one doesn't
<popey> laptop does
<bigcalm> I haven't taken part in a hangout in all the time that g+ has been around
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> I'm amazed that my webcam works within their thingy
<Myrtti> bigcalm: me neither
<jacobw> google hangout sounds odd
<popey> tis fun
<Myrtti> ooohhh
<jacobw> i imagine its like party where no one can touch each other
<Myrtti> talking of Google Hangouts
<Myrtti> looks like the inventor of IRC is working for Google on developing Hangouts
<jacobw> who is the inventor of irc?
<popey> a finnish person
<Myrtti> Jarkko Oikarinen
<jacobw> so the finns invented irc and linux
<popey> bigcalm: wanna test it?
<bigcalm> popey: Sure, let me get an ale
 * AlanBell starts a hangout from the ubuntu uk page
<popey> Fetched 723 kB in 213503982334601d 7h 0min 14s (0 B/s)
<Myrtti> awwww
<bigcalm> o.O
<popey> hmm, something busted here
<popey> might switch to chrome
 * AlanBell is hanging out
 * daubers considers hot chocolate
 * Daviey tucks AlanBell back in
 * jacobw is exploring G+
 * ubuntu <3 G+
 * ndf <3 G+
<ndf> lol
<monsterwizard> really
<monsterwizard> ??
<ndf> i do.
<ndf> you seem shocked, are you not impressed?
 * jacobw <3 G++
<jacobw> its all about polymorphism
<AlanBell> that was fun
<monsterwizard> is it wrong to listen to audio while programming?
<monsterwizard> or learning
<jacobw> music is supposed to stimulate your mind
<jacobw> as long as isn't nirvana
<jacobw> <newsflash> asimo on qi <newsflash>
<Myrtti> Rupert Grint to depict Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards in a biopic movie? ahhahahahahahahaha
<jacobw> wow
<monsterwizard> is it wrong to do programming without coffee?
<jacobw> monsterwizard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVE5iPMKLg
<monsterwizard> errr that was a very educational video
<AlanBell> danfish: is the pub selection settled yet?
<awilkins> Hmm. So far the computer has failed to crash. Apparently the solution to my instability problem was to remove the video card and wiggle it a bit.
<awilkins> One can only hope this persists
<Myrtti> oh no...
<monsterwizard> who else is forever alone on a friday night?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-03
<mattt> evening
<AlanBell> cupcakes \o/ https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hbpKZc4pPk8/TtkWX5SzfsI/AAAAAAAAKbg/QzJJtASsZOQ/s1024/Cupcakes.jpg
<czajkowski> morning
<czajkowski> oh want them cupcakes
<Myrtti> mmmmm tea
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> yeah, they do look nice don't they czajkowski
<AlanBell> not quite as posh as the ones Pendulum wanted the other day
<dwatkins> hi folks
<dwatkins> mmm, cake and bacon and egg sounds great right now
<popey> Morning ratfans
 * AlanBell is queuing to see santa
<mfraz74> What are you going to ask for?
<AlanBell> a better applications lens
<andylockran> w/c
<andylockran> howdy
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<andylockran> shy tee morning
<Myrtti> audacity is horrible ;___;
<brobostigon> equally, so is gwibber.
<Myrtti> yes.
<brobostigon> it is like you ask gwibber to do something, and you have to wait 20 mins.
<andylockran> anyone need a sysadmin job in Brum ?
<brobostigon> o/
<occupy64k> Depends on how old the version
<andylockran> brobostigon: ?
<brobostigon> occupy64k: i am using the most recent version in debian experimental.
<occupy64k> ok
<brobostigon> andylockran: i am not in brum, but a sysadmin job, sounds interesting.
<occupy64k> The old versions of gwibber were really slow
<Myrtti> heheheheheh funny
<Myrtti> yeah.
<Myrtti> I used gwibber on this laptop before May first last
<occupy64k> The version I'm using is 3.2.1
<Myrtti> now I enabled it and still it shows only the replies I've gotten before that in the reply pane
<Myrtti> I would call that a tad slow
<Myrtti> I wonder how many days it takes for it to fetch the rest
<andylockran> well if anyone has any sysadmin friends, please put me in touch
<occupy64k> Isn't everyone a sysadmin now?
<andylockran> occupy64k: nope, developers like to think they can be with 'the cloud'
<Myrtti> oh man, I hate jokosher too
 * brobostigon readds chromium daily ppa, to debian sid.
<brobostigon> no breakage, phew, also added gwibber ppa.
<bigcalm> Peekaboo
<czajkowski> I see you
<bigcalm> eeeeee
 * bigcalm blows raspberries on czajkowski's tummy
<czajkowski> oi cheeky
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Ello miss, how's you?
<bigcalm> Will you be making an appearance after the meal on Friday?
<daubers> Lo
<czajkowski> hopefully so aye
<bigcalm> Goodie :)
<bigcalm> Dragging Jon along?
<bigcalm> Hi daubers
 * daubers dislikes working weekends
<bigcalm> You prefer broken ones?
<daubers> I prefer free ones :(
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGTnuJ1Qqpk <- I made this to explain minecraft to a friend :D
<czajkowski> bigcalm: not sure
<czajkowski> popey: real money eh :)
<mgdm> http://i.imgur.com/viUN9.png - wow
<popey> âº czajkowski
<czajkowski> popey: you make screen casting look so simple
<popey> heh, it is âº
<gord> wow minecraft is $26 - that feels expensive
<penguin42> the BBC headline writers are getting better; especially for the short headlines - always emphasize the important part: 'Puffin found at sex clinic dies': http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-16016898
<AlanBell> penguin42: all the headlines seem a bit frisky today
<penguin42> AlanBell: I guess they reckon they're better than the standard impending doom headlines
<daubers> woot! samba vfs module is starting to look a bit more readable now
<Myrtti> standard impeding doom reminds me of Harry Potter.
<Myrtti> should I be worried?
 * penguin42 hasn't read h.p.
<penguin42> (or watched it)
<Myrtti> I listened.
<czajkowski> hmm dell site is annoying
<czajkowski> you search for Ubuntu
<AlanBell> czajkowski: chat to the live assistant
<czajkowski> gives back a list of machines and I thought wow what a list, click on the item, still shows the OS as Microsoft
<AlanBell> you won't get anything, but blog the transcript
<czajkowski> what'll that do ?
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/07/23/why-windows-still-has-good-sales-figures/
<AlanBell> just show that demand is there
<czajkowski> hmm ok
<czajkowski> hmm I sem to have massive lagging problems
<czajkowski> the system 76 site really is rather nice
<gord> really wish bash had python like string processing :(
<gord> met the system 76 guys at uds, nice people
<czajkowski> and they do say they'll ship to UK, but the downside of an annoying US keyboard would do my head in
<gord> you can get stickers to fix that :)
<czajkowski> gord: this is true
<czajkowski> the machines they offer are nice
<gord> i bet the shipping costs aren't though
 * hamitron just gets comp with crapware and solves the problem when it arrives
<czajkowski> not sure I'd call it crapware to be honest.  It's just an OS I chose to not want to use
<hamitron> I was adding in the other software that is installed to lower the cost of the comp
<brobostigon> wales 6  - 0 australia, :)
<brobostigon> end first half, wales 6 - 3 australia.
<BigRedS> gord: bash's string processing is "perl -e"
<mgdm> I wrote a PHP script the other day that generated a 650000 line long Bash script.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: \o/ :)
<mgdm> I was quite proud of that.
<penguin42> the challenge of how many different languages can you get in a single project
<mgdm> This was after re-implementing ls, as it wouldn't read the directory I was throwing at it in a reasonable amount of time
<BigRedS> penguin42: I remember Michale Meeks at Fosdem saying "Whatever language you prefer, we've something for you to hack on in Libre Office"
<nigelb> mgdm: PHP script to generate bash? That's evil in so many ways :P
<penguin42> BigRedS: You could try membase - it has a test suite in perl, python, ruby and erlang
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: well, for me, bash's everything-processing is perl :) I try to get a bash if done right about four times and then just rewrite the thing in pelr
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I know enough shell scripting to get by (packaging..)
<mgdm> nigelb: I was more interested in getting stuff done :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: but once it gets heavier one line of sed/awk .. hello Perl :)
<czajkowski> whooo 62 days to fOSDEM :D
<nigelb> mgdm: Heh, I can associate with that :)
<MartijnVdS> Argh
<MartijnVdS> Configuring some APs (one in "AP" mode, the other in "client bridge" mode)
<MartijnVdS> but I can't find anything about what they do with VLAN-tagged packets in the docs
 * MartijnVdS goes into "What happened when you tried?" mode
<brobostigon> wales 6 - 10 australia :(
<MartijnVdS> So.. wails from Wales?
<brobostigon> hmmm.
<Azelphur> http://snipsnip.it/au54bo9u347 anyone heard of a remote like this that would be Linux compatible?
<Azelphur> that'd be sweet for MythTV :P
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus :P
<brobostigon> wales 6 - 15 australia :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Rugby?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep.
 * MartijnVdS does a popey and upgrades to alpha1
<brobostigon> wales 6 - 22 australia :(
 * AlanBell ponders moving theopensourcerer.com to a server running precise
<brobostigon> ohwell, wales 18 - 24 australia. full time.
<AlanBell> whilst theopensourcerer is away for the weekend
<penguin42> what can possibly go wrong?
<penguin42> this laptop seems to be happy with pp
<Darael> penguin42: However much could have gone wrong before that question was asked, it is more now.
<Darael> Narrative imperative.
 * AlanBell just downloaded the precise CD in 65 seconds
<penguin42> nod; best to lock up the cat before upgrading
<DJones> I'm thinking about installing in a VM to see what the changes are
<penguin42> I can't honestly see any
<AlanBell> broadly speaking precise is like oneiric, but slightly better
 * brobostigon thinks about dist-upgrade at the right time on his vps, never done such a thing before.
<penguin42> don't dist-upgrade - use do-release-upgrade
<danfish> afternoon - I am officially running ubuntu again after a sojourn on debian :)
<penguin42> welcome back to the u world
<danfish> due to hardware issues it turns out
<brobostigon> penguin42: yes, agreed, i was simply thinking upon the lines, not a presise method yet.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Well if you're going to go to precise then you should be precise
<MartijnVdS> 13 minutes remaining
<MartijnVdS> then I'll be precise :)
<brobostigon> penguin42: ummm, ok.
<MartijnVdS> Release:	12.04
<MartijnVdS> Codename:	precise
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<Darael> To be precise, \o/
<BigRedS> Hm, anyone done much with Amazon? I've just kicked off a canonical AMI and it's not letting me in with my key
<BigRedS> I've remembered to be the user 'ubuntu', but I can't think what else it wants me to do differently...
<AlanBell> Daviey is an amazonian I think
<AlanBell> my precise server install seems to be taking a very very long time to get NTP time
<AlanBell> ah, write about it on IRC and it happens
<BigRedS> there's some irony in precise not dong ntp properly
<brobostigon> dong :)
<AlanBell> on a mac, does the dock thing contain stuff that isn't running as well as stuff that is running, but not all the stuff you could run?
<BigRedS> AlanBell: yeah
<AlanBell> and people like that?
<BigRedS> it has only launcher icons, and then as you open things that weren't already in it, they go in there too
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's like the unity dock -- it contains running and non-running things
<BigRedS> there's some visual difference between what represents open things and what doesn't, but I can't remember precisely how
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> wonder why we copy the silly ideas
 * penguin42 notes Risc OS had this about 15 years ago
<AlanBell> what I did for a while was un-pin everything in the launcher, so it only showed running things
<AlanBell> that made more sense to me, but the applications lens is too hard to find stuff in, so you end up pinning things again
<BigRedS> AlanBell: OSX has a lot of the sort of thing where you either get it or you don't, and if you don't get it and try to bend it to fit it doesn't really work
<penguin42> AlanBell: It works well if you actually allow the running icons on the dock to do more things - in the RISC OS system the icon on the bar would do loads of things - e.g. show open documents and let you drag and drop onto it
<penguin42> IMHO that makes sense - there was never any point to having a launcher on the panel and then something that appeared when it was running
<AlanBell> drag and drop on riscos was awesome. It always worked for anything to anywhere
<AlanBell> riscos should make a comeback on ARM tablets
<Darael> ...is that "should" as in "I anticipate", or "should" as in "someone ought to make it so"?
<AlanBell> someone ought to make it so
<Darael> Mmm.  Thought so, but it might have been a prediction.
<AlanBell> I should think someone will probably do it for the raspberry pi
<AlanBell> http://www.osnews.com/story/25276/Raspberry_Pi_To_Embrace_RISC_OS
 * AlanBell was right :)
<Darael> How... satisfactory.
<mgdm> I remember RiscOS from school
<mgdm> I learned Pascal on that :)
 * AlanBell wants a pi even more now
<MartijnVdS> Magnum PI?
 * nigelb hands AlanBell 3.14
<penguin42> that version never worked well, I'll wait for version 4
<mgdm> I wonder if I can emulate something RiscOS-capable
<kvarley> Does Ubuntu have an alternative shortcut for character codes? Like on *the OS that shall not be named* you hit Alt + [number] to get accented characters and such.
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: most apps understand Ctrl+Shift+U <let go of everything> <type hex code of unicode codepoint> <space>
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: Ctrl+Shift+U 2665 = â¥
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: you can look up the hex codes in gucharmap
<MartijnVdS> â« = 266b
<kvarley> Ah ok =] thanks
<jacobw> á¤
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: what the .. is that
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Been using Ubuntu for years and I just wondered now how to do it lol. Each time I needed a special character I had use the charmap lol
<Darael> For some things it's easier to set a compose key, of course, but ctl+shift+U works for every character in Unicode.
<jacobw> ctrl+shift+u 1664
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: 2639 = â¹  263a = âº
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: 263b = â»
<MartijnVdS> etc, etc
<jacobw> á·
<jacobw> i don't know what that is either
<kvarley> Thank you muchly
<jacobw> ctrl+shift+u 1337
<penguin42> remembering unicode isn't as easy as remembering ascii
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: ETHIOPIC SYLLABLE PHWA
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: That's because ASCII is 127 characters, and unicode is still growing with >16M possible characters
<penguin42> nod
<kvarley> Is there a way to add folders to an existing tar.bz2 archive?
<jacobw> yes
<kvarley> jacobw: How? :)
<MartijnVdS> there is tar -r (append) but I don't know if it copes with compression
<jacobw> i don't know
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I'll try that thanks. I don't need it to be compressed as I am just using it to copy a filesystem
<MartijnVdS> also, I don't know what it does with duplicates
<MartijnVdS> i.e. you add the same file twice
<BigRedS> My understanding is that it will append it to the tar, but not overwrite the file in it
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: sure, but how will that work on unpack?
<BigRedS> but then, on extraction, it'll write the first one, then get to the second and overwrite the first with that
<MartijnVdS> how delightfully 20th century :)
<BigRedS> I've never tested it, though, and so I don't know where that explanation came from
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: it's what ctrl-C was invented for :)
<popey> that makes sense
<popey> given tar was designed for linear devices (tapes)
<BigRedS> Yeah
<BigRedS> it's a true 'append' rather than just 'add'
<popey> makes sense that you can't overwrite something part way along but append
<popey> yeah
<BigRedS> and means that, on a tape, you can go back through the previous versions
<gord> rather interesting proof of concept of an attack on your web browser cache http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/cachetime/
<Myrtti> so can someone explain to me how geoclue actually works in 11.10? I'm thinking of putting redshift on as I had it on my ... previous laptop, and it looks the location up with geoclue. But what if I change the location from the clock widget?
<gord> Myrtti, iirc there are a few different providers for geoclue, one of them is ip based
<Myrtti> alright
<Daviey> BigRedS: hey, around?
<thispixel> I have some tracks I want to write to CDR is there something I can use to convert them so any player can play them?
<Myrtti> depends on what do you mean by tracks and players
<Azelphur> !info brasero | thispixel
<Azelphur> !brasero | thispixel
<Myrtti> brasero is certainly nice
<Azelphur> what happened to the bot? :(
<lubotu3> thispixel: brasero (source: brasero): CD/DVD burning application for GNOME. In component main, is optional. Version 2.32.1-0ubuntu2 (natty), package size 175 kB, installed size 544 kB
<Azelphur> slowness
<monsterwizard> does anyone know about asm
<monsterwizard> and know about stacks
<monsterwizard> ;(
<penguin42> which asm, which stacks, and whats your problem?
<monsterwizard> I'm use 86
<monsterwizard> I can't identify where the stack has been created in this program
<ali1234> "created"
<penguin42> monsterwizard: It normally shows in /proc/self/maps as [stack]
<monsterwizard> http://pastebin.com/YAu7sn1Z
<monsterwizard> really?
<monsterwizard> huh
<ali1234> the stack is just 1 pointer, it is in... the stack pointer (register)
<ali1234> since that program is just a few asm instructions inside a C program, the compiler will generate the code that sets up the stack
<monsterwizard> so there#s no way to indicate where abouts it starts
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<penguin42> monsterwizard: Do you want to put it somewhere or do you want to find out where it is?
<monsterwizard> Well I need to write a report on the stack frame
<ali1234> stack has a top and a bottom
<monsterwizard> and one question is to comment the "Setting up the stack frame!
<monsterwizard> " *
<penguin42> monsterwizard: So just do everything via esp
<ali1234> neither can really be called the "start"
<ali1234> (also you can't really tell where the bottom is)
<monsterwizard> But I need to make a diagram of the stack
<monsterwizard> surely there is
<ali1234> ok
<monsterwizard> I dunno though
<ali1234> get a debugger
<monsterwizard> damn, asm86 makes me physically ill
<monsterwizard> got one
<ali1234> watch the esp register
<ali1234> step through the code
<ali1234> esp is a pointer to memory
<monsterwizard> Ah I see
<ali1234> whenever push instruction is used, whatever you push is written to the memory pointed by the esp
<ali1234> then the esp is decremented
<ali1234> this is the stack
<ali1234> this is kinda fundamental to all machine code
<penguin42> monsterwizard: Use a debugger like gdb to have a look - if you do info registers   it will show you the register values
<ali1234> so lines 28 to 31 put params on the stack (like the comment says)
<ali1234> then line 32 calls a function, which uses those parameters (it looks at esp to find them)
<ali1234> then line 33 adds to the stack, which moves it back, removing the parameters
<ali1234> same thing throughout the rest of the program
<ali1234> so it pushes twice... this is 32 bit code so that's a total of 8 bytes
<ali1234> then it adds 8 to esp
<ali1234> now esp is back where it started
<ali1234> so the thing here is, you have to push and then "pop" an equal number of times, or extremely bad things will happen
<ali1234> adding to esp is a shortcut for doing lots of pops, when you don't care about the data
<monsterwizard> right I see
<monsterwizard> taking notes
<ali1234> btw is this homework?
<ali1234> the other thing you need to know about the stack is there's no rules at all about esp, it's just another register
<ali1234> when a program starts it initializes it to a value, the code that does it is part of the libc, otherwise you'd have to include it in all programs
<ali1234> but if you just pop loads of times, the pointer will happily keep moving into unknown memory
<ali1234> so you can see that if you change the number of parameters of a function but forget to change the matching pop, you now have a very dangerous bug
<penguin42> ali1234: I thought it was actually the kernel that set it up initially and created the parameters on the stack
<ali1234> this is one of the things that C makes really easy for you... making sure all function calls "just work"
<ali1234> penguin42: i'm pretty sure it's done in the crt.0
<monsterwizard> Oh god, ok
<ali1234> any OS that uses virtual memory
<monsterwizard> wait how do you clear a stack then?
<penguin42> you don't you just pop your stuff off it
<monsterwizard> oh right
<ali1234> you can't
<ali1234> well, you can
<ali1234> the point is, you have to have a pop for every push
<ali1234> it has to match up perfectly
<ali1234> if you just pause a program at a random point, you can't tell how deep the stack is
<monsterwizard> I see
<ali1234> imagine you have a pile of rocks
<ali1234> then you add 10 rocks
<ali1234> how many rocks in the pile?
<ali1234> you don't know...
<penguin42> jenga!
<monsterwizard> so poping the stack frame = clearing the stack frame
<ali1234> but you can take 10 rocks off the top and get back to where you started
<monsterwizard> in an abstract sense
<ali1234> but if someone else comes along and puts a rock on the pile when you're not looking... you're screwed
<penguin42> ali1234: And thats why threads have separate stacks
<ali1234> yes, you don't really "clear" it in the sense of "writing 0s over it" or anything like that
<ali1234> you just move the pointer back
<monsterwizard> This brief isn't very precise another thing I need to identify is the "Passing back the return value"
<penguin42> ah, so it is homework....
<monsterwizard> not really
<monsterwizard> if it was
<monsterwizard> I wouldn't do it
<monsterwizard> :P
<ali1234> looks like the retrun value is in eax
<ali1234> or eax,eax; jnz fileOK
<ali1234> function call methods differ between OSs
<ali1234> actually most OSs can call functions in multiple different ways too
<ali1234> again, C hides all this from you most of the time
<ali1234> you might find this interesting-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_calling_conventions
<ali1234> see if you can figure out the name of the calling convention your code is using
<monsterwizard> thank you
<mgdm> I fairly comfortable in C, but I've not done any assembly stuff since 6502 on the BBC Micro about 12 years ago :)
<monsterwizard> I may stop learning asm
<ali1234> there isn't much reason to learn x86 asm
<monsterwizard> Yeah/
<monsterwizard> So I still can get a job?
<monsterwizard> without learning this
<monsterwizard> because it's actually giving me an increased heart rate D:
<monsterwizard> perhaps I need more 'general' programming skills
<jacobw> very few people code in asm
<ali1234> sure
<Myrtti> crazy neighbour shooting fireworks from their balcony somewhere above me
<ali1234> if you want to be an expert programmer
<ali1234> learn some 8 bit assembler
<Myrtti> where have they even gotten any at this time of year
<ali1234> like z80, 6502, etc
<ali1234> they are much simpler
<ali1234> once you've done that you can bluff your way through any x86 assembler you meet with a reference manual
<ali1234> mips is simple too
<jacobw> i've started wearing my hearing aid again for the first time in years
<jacobw> i can hear my own voice much better, i didn't know i sounded a bit brummie :|
<Myrtti> hm
<Myrtti> this is worrysome
<Myrtti> first I was like, yay, clean laptop and it sounds quieter too
<Myrtti> now I'm not sure if the CPU fan is going at all
<jacobw> uh oh
<jacobw> cpu temperature monitor?
<Myrtti> 58C
<Myrtti> yeah, it's not going at all
<gord> nice and quiet though
<Myrtti> well that was scary
<Myrtti> got a huge wad of lint and dust off, rebooted all the way to Ubuntu and fan didn't start at all, started to panic and now it runs again
<monsterwizard> DO you think access parameters means using the parameters?
<Myrtti> now the CPU temp is 38C
<jacobw> monsterwizard: what are you reading?
<monsterwizard> a text?
<monsterwizard> err some random text book
<monsterwizard> this is in asm86
<jacobw> in my opinion, which may be wrong, asm86 is not a good place to start if you are learning to program
<jacobw> http://goo.gl/855wT
<dwatkins> I started learning with BBC BASIC, which is a gateway language to Assembley ;)
<dwatkins> I gather university courses start with Java or Processing nowadays.
<Myrtti> java, python, php and some places do lisp.
<jacobw> form what i've seen its java and java and java
<Myrtti> I had to learn php to do my xml course
<Myrtti> in the process I ended up making my own flat file CMS
<dwatkins> Myrtti: my brother did something similar, still uses it despite the existence of CMSs like Wordpress
<dwatkins> or mediawiki, which his is more similar to
<mgdm> I'm in the process of moving off a CMS to something that generates flat files
<mgdm> (moving from Habari to Jekyll, in case someone cares)
<Oli> Anybody know where I can find some brilliant white Cat5e cable? Preferably without printing on, so I can just nail it to the top of the skirting board and not have to worry about needing [or wanting] to paint over it?
<directhex> you can learn to program from the bottom, or the top. most people these days start with highest-level choices like python, then let people move into lower-level things if they wish. nobody sane starts with assembler in 2011.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-04
<penguin42> directhex: And how many programmers do you know that are sane?!
<ali1234> there is no need to learn to build entire applications in assembly language but you do need to know stuff like the stack, pointers, calling conventions etc
<ali1234> x86 is too complicated though
<AlanBell> some people start from the electronics end and go to arduino stuff
<Azelphur> penguin42: I'm sane sometimes \o/
<penguin42> Azelphur: Prove it
<Azelphur> Moo.
<penguin42> damn!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu and QML - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/12/04/ubuntu-and-qml/
<czajkowski> morning
<czajkowski> AlanBell: https://plus.google.com/102921374554385564572/posts/8sVoWjFj6jG
<AlanBell> oooh
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye :)
<daubers> Morning
<czajkowski> daubers: ello
 * daubers warms up the soldering iron
 * danfish alerts the fire brigade in daubers area :)
<daubers> :p
<MartijnVdS> Time for a morning/recovery run
<popey> odd czajkowski that link doesnt work for me
<popey> ah, ok now .. odd
<czajkowski> popey: should do you're in the groups I posted to
<czajkowski> canonical, Ubuntu, UK Geeks
<popey> no, its because i have multiple google accounts, that link doesnt work
<popey> i have to massage it
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> so you're the awkward one :)
<popey> no, google is
<shauno> I have to add /u/1/ into them too.  their permalinks aren't so perma
<popey> exactly shauno
<czajkowski> ah I see
<Myrtti> semi-authentic English breakfast â¥
<Myrtti> (no English sausages)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * MartijnVdS sticks to sesame rolls with "komijnekaas"
<MartijnVdS> (cheese with cumin)
<daubers> bah
<daubers> stupid arduino ide
<Myrtti> I've got so many wishes for Christmas presents but I'm sadly low on ideas what to give others
<Myrtti> (Lilypad Arduino is on my list for Santa)
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Pirate Fluxx (or any other Fluxx)
<Myrtti> if it's not available in Finnish, then no :-(
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: hm.. there's a Dutch, German, Spanish and Japanese version
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: (and English of course)
<Myrtti> no Finnish so no go :-(
<jonsaint> hi all. can anyone recommend software for making a mp3 cd??
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: soundconverer
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> soundconverter
<MartijnVdS> it converts any music you have to MP3, then you just select the MP3s in brasero
<jonsaint> and that makes a mp3 cd?
<MartijnVdS> no it converts your music to mp3s suitable for MP3 cds
<Myrtti> mp3 cd is just a cd with mp3's in it
<jonsaint> i got the mp3 files but looking for something to burn the mp3 music to cd
<Myrtti> jonsaint: even the filemanager itself should be able to burn, you don't need any special app for it
<Myrtti> brasero is of course nice
<jonsaint> Myrtti, so all i do is burn it as a data cd?
<Myrtti> what I would check is your cd player first
<Myrtti> does the manual say if there is a limit on how many directories it can recurse into
<jonsaint> my car cd is mp3 compoatible as i already play mp3 in there
<Myrtti> atleast in the misty hazy days of mp3 cd players there were limitations in the directory depth
<jonsaint> il give it a try
<Myrtti> yeah, it should just work
<jonsaint> cheers for the help
<brobostigon> gwibber 3.3 seems alot more resource friendly, but the gui, is still so sluggish.
<siriusly> I am quite liking Hotot as an alternative
<brobostigon> siriusly: i havent tries yet, what protocols can it deal with?
<siriusly> brobostigon:   just Twitter & Identica and since I dont use FB it's not a problem
<brobostigon> siriusly: ah, ok.
<siriusly> I want to like Gwibber and I know it has come on in leaps bust as you say the GUI is  still quite sluggish
<siriusly> Bu*
<siriusly> although I do like the way it's integrated into the desktop experience
<brobostigon> hence, i do use mustard and seesmic more, on my phone, for thiese purposes.
<siriusly> Yeah I have seesmic on my android phone too
 * brobostigon is weird though, using launchpad ppa's inside debian.
<penguin42> wow, I never knew there was a snowman in unicode
<penguin42> although, to be honest in this font I couldn't tell what it was
<Myrtti> hm
<Myrtti> where does gwibber store all the messages it has fetched?
<penguin42> although I'm getting lost in Wikipedia looking up the other contents of 'Miscellaneous Symbols'
<Myrtti> â
 * penguin42 fails to find what the 'Permanent paper sign' â¾  is for
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://archive.ifla.org/IV/ifla64/115-114e.htm ?
<penguin42> well, I've learnt something - and I've not even had breakfast yet
<penguin42> hmm, I'll go and cure that 2nd part
<brobostigon> i suppose, mixing ppa's and normal debian repos inside debian. will only be an issue, if things start to clash. afterall a ppa, is basiclly, a normal debian repo.
<popey> moo
<AlanBell> phpmyadmin in precise looks very shiny
<MartijnVdS> moo?
<jacobw> o/
<AlanBell> cluck
 * AlanBell wonders when the chickens are going to start laying
<bigcalm> AlanBell: isn't phpmyadmin just a web app and not tied to a specific distro?
 * jacobw is a fan of the chickens
 * brobostigon asks the air force not to send any loud planes over AlanBell's house.
<AlanBell> bigcalm: sure, but I just added the version from the repos and it has been updated and looks shiny
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> I forget that some web apps make it into the repos. Which is good and bad. Most web apps are constantly out of date
<AlanBell> yeah, I wouldn't do wordpress from the repos, but phpmyadmin I can't be bothered to install myself
<AlanBell> it can have security issues so I often uninstall it after using it
<bigcalm> Indeed
<penguin42> splittety split
<czajkowski> penguin42: network upgrade
<penguin42> ah!
<occupy64k> Changes in the matrix?
<czajkowski> penguin42: if you look at global notices
<czajkowski> 14:11 [freenode] -Martinp23(martinp23@freenode/staff/martinp23)- [Global  Notice] Wheeeeee. The main part of this week's upgrades is done.  Thanks for your patience and I hope you enjoyed the ride... Our last  round of ircd upgrades is next week, so don't miss the fun :)
<penguin42> there have to be ways to do ircd upgrades more transparently
<ali1234> copyover, but it is a pain to implement it
<ali1234> file descriptors are preserved across execve() but you have to reallocate all your data structures etc
<penguin42> nod, just a serialise/deserialise
<penguin42> is https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse 404 for everyone else?
<brobostigon> ok, empathy in debian sid, not connects to msn, so they must have updated something, that isnt in bitlbee on my vps in lucid.
<brobostigon> now*
<jutnux> Howdy
<BigRedS> penguin42: yep, from here
<penguin42> hmm ho hum, apparently it works for some people in some places
<penguin42> worked last week
<jutnux> Hey popey, when is the next podcast up? :)
<popey> jutnux: we record this tuesday
<popey> also http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/calendar/ :D
<jutnux> Good good.
<awilkins> I am vexed. My computer now refuses to boot Ubuntu, even from a LiveUSB. But it still boots Windows fine.
<awilkins> It ran mprime for an hour (when Ubuntu still booted) with no trouble. It runs Memtest86 through a full pass with no errors. Grr.
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: have you adjusted the boot order?
<MartijnVdS> have you checked the boot bits of the liveusb?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS: Nope... the LiveUSB has worked for some time too
<MartijnVdS> strnge
<MartijnVdS> strÃ¤nge even
<awilkins> It's been flaky for a few weeks - but only in Ubuntu. Hardlocks and resets
<MartijnVdS> file bugs!
<awilkins> Windows will play Skyrim for hours and only suffers from the usual crashing level you'd expect from a Bethesda game
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> nvidia
<MartijnVdS> I guess?
<awilkins> Yes
<MartijnVdS> I've just found the source of your problems ;)
<awilkins> I may swap the card out for the older 8800
<BigRedS> I've an nfs mount over what I suspect to be a flaky network. Is there a favourite tool that I can use to do a massive volume of realistic-loking I/O on it to see if I can make it fail while I'm awake?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS: It even had the crashes when I was running Nouveau
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: cp ubuntu.iso /mnt/nfs
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: \o/ lots of i/o
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, that was my first thought :)
<BigRedS> Wondered about a bunch of random reads/writes. But it's all on vms, so I've no idea where the actual bits being flipped are
<penguin42> BigRedS: Bit flips? A flaky network should never actually make flaky data in the actual files
<MartijnVdS> bit flips sounds like a broken nic
<MartijnVdS> also, that should be caught by checksum algorithms on several levels
<BigRedS> no, there aren't any bit flips, just the device goes away
<MartijnVdS> try running nfs over tcp -- if you still get corrupted data, you want to start suspecting the disc/controller
<BigRedS> what I meant was that traditionally I'd want to be reading and writing all over the place, rahter than just one file
<penguin42> BigRedS: What do you mean 'goes away' - sorry, please be a bit more precise
<BigRedS> Apache processes (which are reading off it) end up in D state and the mount point is empty. It's actually gluster, not nfs, too
<penguin42> ok, sounds like you have a gluster specific problem then
<BigRedS> yeah, I just want to se what's going on when it fails
<penguin42> BigRedS: anything in dmesg?
<BigRedS> are those logged anywhere to survive between boots?
<penguin42> should end up in /var/log/kern.log
<penguin42> or possibly /var/log/syslog
<BigRedS> yeah, nothing in syslog
<BigRedS> and only complaints by apache about the sudden disappearence of the fs
<BigRedS> I'll just cp a CD a few times and see what happens
 * penguin42 assumes gluster has some monitoring stuff
<BigRedS> yeah, I've inherited somebody else's mess
<penguin42> ah
<jutnux> popey: Went to make cake in a cup but had no self raising flower :'(
<jutnux> Don't know if you remember that article ;)
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: do you have baking powder?
<MartijnVdS> add that to the flour :)
<jutnux> MartijnVdS: Not that I know of.
<jutnux> MartijnVdS: Silly mother made cake earlier and used all of the sr flower.
<jutnux> Because it looks really nice :'(
<penguin42> jutnux: Well, obviously you should take a slice of the cake instead
<jutnux> penguin42: Been there, done that, gained 8 stone ;)
<penguin42> jutnux: And you do better with cakes in a cup?!  When I do that they're quite substantial - I don't use a small cup :-)
<jutnux> I've never had cake in a cup before hahaha. I have a massive beer mug type cup so that will be fine :)
 * penguin42 puts lots of cocoa, chocolate chips and a spoon of marmalade in
<jutnux> Marmalade? :-O
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: at least it's not marmite
<jutnux> Gross.
<jutnux> I hate Marmite.
<penguin42> jutnux: Yeh Marmalade - gives a nice orange taste; orange and chocolate go really well
<jutnux> I'll probably get some self raising flower on the way home tomorrow then make it.
<jutnux> I wish more people would move off of facebook
<jutnux> then I could shut down my account.
<jutnux> I swear lifehacker is going downhill
<jacobw> marmite contains vitamin b which makes people less aggressive
<jacobw> conclusion, marmite lovers are better people :)
<jutnux> A wide variety of foods contain vitamin B6, including potatoes, bananas, beans, seeds, nuts, red meat, poultry, fish, eggs, spinach,
<jacobw> i unlaterally shutdown my facebook again 2 years ago
<jutnux> Wish I could
<jutnux> Why do people customise unity arghhh
<jutnux> Especially when they make it look disgusting
<jacobw> people customise everything
<jutnux> True
<jutnux> Just had some cheesecake, feel proper sick.
<jutnux> Worth it though.
<jacobw> it doesn't sound as such
<jutnux> Raspberry cheesecake, can't go wrong ;)
<Myrtti> I didn't even realise you could customize Unity
<jacobw> you can even customise gnome3
<MartijnVdS> they fixed that now?
<jacobw> haha
<jacobw> i'm sure their working on it
<jacobw> i want to see someone make kde look like gnome3
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<jutnux> Didn't someone make LXDE look like XP?
<jacobw> gnome is quite easy to make look like XP
<jacobw> http://art.gnome.org/themes/gtk2/1058
<Myrtti> I knew GnomeShell can be customised. Haven't found out how Unity can.
<popey> define $customised
<Myrtti> colours, sizes, backgrounds, etc
<Myrtti> I can't find out how to remove the workspace switcher
<Myrtti> etc.
<Myrtti> well, havent really looked
<popey> compizconfig-settings-manager lets you do a fair amount
<AlanBell> I have just found the launcher icon size slider
<jutnux> I only really found the uses of workspaces last year
<Myrtti> I use keyboard shortcuts for switching anyway
<Myrtti> I'm really disappointed how audio_bell works in GnomeShell but not in Unity
<Myrtti> I can't even figure out why
 * AlanBell goes to file a bug in unity
<jacobw> i'm pleased all the new desktop shells are using keyboard shortcuts
 * jacobw loves keyboard control
<AlanBell> keyboard control is good, but it isn't complete
<Darael> ISTR that some change was made deliberately to stop audio_bell working in Unity.  Don't know how, but I'm sure it's intentional.  Don't think it's a good thing, either, but there you go.
<Myrtti> intentional? erh. I'd prefer it to be configurable like it is in GnomeShell.
<Myrtti> one feature that Gnome hasn't managed to remove
<BigRedS> Unity's less good at keyboard than Gnome 2 was IMO
<Myrtti> I wonder how I manage to find new problems in my system almost on daily basis
<Myrtti> now I want to know which spellchecker drivel uses but seem to be unable to locate info about it
<MarquessDeBonBon> What's all this Alt+click business?
 * AlanBell wonders what MarquessDeBonBon is on about
<jutnux> AlanBell: I think he means in Gnome-Shell how you can move the dockable things.
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Damn machine won't even boot the alternate installer for Natty now. Just gets to a flashing text cursor on a black screen...
<awilkins> Hardware failures that favour Windows over Linux..
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I'd say it's a hardware issue then
<awilkins> It's almost like MS made a firmware virus
<Myrtti> iiiiiiiiiiii snow
<Myrtti> â¥
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: snow?
<awilkins> It boots the loader, syslinux
<Myrtti> snow.
<awilkins> Then when you try and get past that to the initrd etc flashy cursor
<awilkins> Even with "nosplash"
<awilkins> Badger sputum.
<Darael> That's one of the more interesting expletives I've seen.
<awilkins> Darael, Not mine... one of Douglas Adam's
<Darael> So it is.  How could I have forgotten?
<roachy> evening all :)
<jutnux> Howdy.
<roachy> quiet in here tonight....
<jutnux> Hahhahahaha, someone on a forum took apart a Lithium Ion battery and put it in the bin.
<mgdm> o_O
<jutnux> Moments later the bin was on fire.
<jutnux> He didn't understand why until after he put the fire out.
<zleap> lol
<zleap> Lithium + h20 = flames
<zleap> or does it combust in air,
<jutnux> Nope
<jutnux> H20 it burns.
<jutnux> I think
<Darael> It oxidises in air, but not rapidly enough to burn.  In water, on the other hand...
<zleap> what if there is high humidity
<zleap> just out of interest
<Darael> I don't actually know, but I'd assume if it's high enough it'll "spontaneously" combust.
<zleap> Darael,  You ever seen caesium in water
<jutnux> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjreO2quGsM
<Darael> Yup.  Boom.
<Darael> Francium would be even more impressive, if they could get it to remain stable for long enough...
<zleap> LiHO should that be LiOH
<jutnux> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCk0lYB_8c0 - All of the metals :L
<zleap> http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=SjowQJMS-W4
<zleap> francium bomb test
<zleap> which is not a proper descriptionof the video really is it
<Darael> Francium and fluorine would be particularly impressive, I should think.
<jutnux> It's Hydrogen bomb test haha.
<zleap> yeah i kinda thought it looked odd for francium in water
<zleap> isi t really that rate
<zleap> rare
<jutnux> Presumably
<jutnux> Reacts with air so quickly I guess.
<AlanBell> there was a mythbusters episode where they were messing about with irresponsible quantities of reactive metals
<Darael> That it reacts with air wouldn't make it rare, merely difficult to get the pure stuff.
<Darael> It's rare because it's unstable, and decays quickly.
<jutnux> I guess.
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> http://www.chemicool.com/elements/francium.html
<jutnux> " less than 30 g of it exists on Earth at any given time. "
<zleap> i really miss having a periodic table program I had on win3.1  it gave detailed decay trees for elements
<jutnux> I wish I was alive for 3.1 :-(
<AlanBell> so not something the mythbusters could easily chuck in a bucket of water to see what happens
<zleap> however on win95  it really seemed to eat memory
 * AlanBell remembers windows 2
 * MartijnVdS too
<zleap> and me
<MartijnVdS> had it on my dad's XT
<MartijnVdS> well clone
<zleap> we had that ast college when loadingf adobe pagemaker (well it says windows 286)
<MartijnVdS> zleap: that's 3 I think?
<zleap> ah
<MartijnVdS> 3.0
<zleap> that maks sense as i got my first pc while at college that had 3.1
<jutnux> I got my first PC when I was 4.
<zleap> it was also that first pC on which i started to play with Linux
<jutnux> Good ole learning land!
<zleap> yes all the networked machines you could go into gwbasic and type shell to get a command prompt, on the non networked machines this was blocked
<zleap> lol
<jutnux> My school security is terrible.
<zleap> what is funny is you tell people and they just dismiss it
<jutnux> Unplug the network cable, bring up cmd prompt, plug it back in and you have a command prompt connected to the network.
<zleap> lol
<zleap> i take it that is due to a bug (or for us feature) in windows
<jutnux> Maybe.
<webpigeon> say probably RM being RM
<jutnux> Also they let me create an account on the local machine.
<jutnux> Change the admin password on the local machine
<zleap> yes i got an old rm machine ones, guessed the bios password pretty easy RM
<webpigeon> heh, you are meant to change those :P
<jutnux> I was taking an MCAS exam (got offered to me for free, don't smite me) and the Vista PC got a BSOD.
<jutnux> Was so funny.
<czajkowski> thenn /c
<zleap> lol
<webpigeon> jutnux: what you don't know is that it was part if the test :P
<webpigeon> s/if/of/
<jutnux> Either way
<jutnux> I sat there
<jutnux> for 30 minutes
<jutnux> whilst they replaced everything
<jutnux> HDD and Ram failure apparently
<webpigeon> at the same time?!
<jutnux> Yes
<jutnux> Apparently
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: Static shock can do that
<MartijnVdS> or lightning
<jutnux> Probably static
<webpigeon> MartijnVdS: still, decent surge protector...
<webpigeon> and don't poke things when it's running :P
<jutnux> I messed up a laptop like 6 years ago
<jutnux> By hoovering it
<MartijnVdS> Uh.. how?
<jacobw> bad
<jutnux> I was 10 and knew no better.
<jutnux> Static build up.
<MartijnVdS> by spinning the fan?
<MartijnVdS> and the fan acting as a small generator?
<jutnux> Don't know
<jacobw> hoovers generate a lot of static
<jutnux> But now I keep a can of compressed air, only cost me like Â£5.
<jutnux> Any stories of your cock-ups guys?
<jacobw> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/my-10-unix-command-line-mistakes.html
<jacobw> i read this a little while ago, it made me laugh a few times
<webpigeon> Thanks for the link
<jutnux> Yeah, thanks. This is funny hahhahah
<zleap> on the subject of batteries http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2fD-hYVLxE&feature=related&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D6RNVDmtTcS4%26feature%3Drelated
<ali1234> i always hoover out my computer
<zleap> 52 x 9v = 468v  which is more than what you get on 3 phase (415) and mains (240 / 110)
<jutnux> ali1234: I sometimes do when I have no compressed air.
<ali1234> compressed air just blows the crap around
<jutnux> Not if you aim ;)
<jutnux> See you later anyway guys.
<jutnux> Have a good night ;)
<zleap> careful with compressed air and any condensation
<Myrtti> AlanBell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/769314
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 769314 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "System bell broken in Natty/Unity (despite heroic...)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<prime> ...........
<prime> ...
<Azelphur> where's Pac-Man when you need him
<prime> who?
<Azelphur> Pac-Man, he's the guy that eats all the dots.
<webpigeon> Azelphur: think he's hanging out with the arch lot
<Azelphur> I see
<AlanBell> á¤
<Azelphur> woo it's pacman
<webpigeon> Awww, unprintable char
<AlanBell> á£......â¢...á¤
<AlanBell> ghost is in trouble
<Azelphur> hehe
<webpigeon> Unicode Character 'CANADIAN SYLLABICS CARRIER TTE'
<webpigeon> there is me thinking there was UTF8 pacman :(
<popey> haha, excellent AlanBell
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-26
<popey> morning
<theopensourcerer> Meauning
<diplo> Morning
<AlanBell> morning
<BigRedS> Morning!
<czajkowski> morning folks!
 * daubers makes the backup mailserver flush it's queues
<JamesTait> Happy Monday!
<SuperMatt> hmmm, we need a good anacronym for Linux, Nginx, Postgres and Django
<SuperMatt> it doesn't have the same ring to is as LAMP
<SuperMatt> or I could go with PUND: postgres, ubuntu, nginx and djago
<SuperMatt> or should django be replaced with python, which means I could use NUPP as an anacronym
<SuperMatt> oh oh oh
<SuperMatt> PoNgLiPy
<BigRedS> django counts as python, surely?
<BigRedS> Otherwise lots of lamp would be something like damz, with Debian and Zend
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> I think polipyng sounds better, now I think about it
 * BigRedS reboots into Roaring
<BigRedS> or raring
<BigRedS> whatever it is
<czajkowski> mrevell: ello ello
<BigRedS> Protip: If there's a [y/n] prompt, read what it's asking *before* hitting 'y'. I was not expecting that reboot
<mrevell> Hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> mrevell: get sorted with the t-shirts
<diplo> heh BigRedS :P
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/407451-sandisk-256gb-pulse-ssd-sdssdp-256g-g25
<popey> getting cheap, these SSDs!
<diplo> popey: yeah starting to get to the point I may buy one
<SuperMatt> I bought a 125gigger about a year ago
<diplo> Tempted by that one in the email this morning
<SuperMatt> freaking love it
<diplo> I'd like 2 really, but that may be pushing things to far
<SuperMatt> I turn on my pc, sit down and it's at the log in prompt
 * diplo would like that :)
<Laney> best single upgrade
<SuperMatt> I wish it was quite that good, but actually it takes an age to get through the bios
<SuperMatt> but after that, it's pretty snappy
<dwatkins> I lift the lid on my laptop and it's at the password prompt ;)
<SuperMatt> oh yeah, I do that too on my laptop
<SuperMatt> when the next price drop comes around, I might take the ssd out of my desktop, put it in my laptop, and put a larger ssd in the desktop
<SuperMatt> 512G should be enough for the OS plus a few games
<dwatkins> yeah, I'm very tempted to go with an SSD on my next machine (a desktop, so I can play games on it without getting burned fingers)
<BigRedS> I love the fact that bioses appear to have not been developed at all in about 20 years
<dwatkins> BigRedS: I thought EFI was effectively a replacement for that
<BigRedS> Mine still takes about 8 seconds, and the one on my 90s thinkpad took about 10
<BigRedS> dwatkins: yeah
<dwatkins> then again, stuff not changing is often good, as PCs get faster the old stuff loads more quickly
<BigRedS> but between about 1991 and whenever EFI started (this year?) the boot time in a Bios was horrendous
<BigRedS> that tinycore thing took almost exactly zero time to boot
<dwatkins> my netbook boots in 20 seconds, it spends 12 of those seconds in POST
<BigRedS> though, that said, I still keep missing the 'hit <F12> for setup' message. Not sure I need faster bioses
<dwatkins> I imagine I can probably improve that by turning off disk detection or something
<directhex> BigRedS, bioses *can't* have changed significantly, or they cease to be BIOS
<BigRedS> yeah, should be an "assume nothing has changed" switch
<BigRedS> directhex: now you sound like mjg
<directhex> BigRedS, the spec includes, e.g. wait times for drive detection
<BigRedS> yeah, I think that's why the few faster alternatives don't claim to be bioses
<BigRedS> but bios replacements
 * dwatkins bops along to Pendulum
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<gord> popey, may be releavant to your interests http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-26-mojang-makes-bespoke-minecraft-for-the-scrumptious-raspberry-pi
<popey> yeah :)
<dwatkins> I'm interested to see if they're going to optimise Minecraft for the Pi, as that can only help users with not-so-fast PCs who currently have to put up with it having a very high CPU load.
<gord> its pocket edition, not minecraft proper
<dwatkins> ah ok, same as on mobile
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> 3 weeks of emails kinda hurts
<BigRedS> Minecraft for the raspberry pi? But it's in Java!
<BigRedS> oh. pocket version
<xnox> also java does run on armel
<dubac0> hi does is there advice on MP4 and MP3 players compatibility with ubuntu?
<AlanBell> BigRedS: that CPU even has hardware java accelleration
<AlanBell> try cat /proc/cpuinfo on a pi
<BigRedS> xnox: yeah, but it runs away with all your resources on a modern machine...
<popey> I suspect it's a cut down version
<AlanBell> it isn't used for anything, but it does have jazelle support
<dubac0> would a Philips SA3MXX04WA/02  work with ubuntu?
<AlanBell> dubac0: probably
<popey> dubac0, hard to tell without someone trying it
<popey> it _might_ be a mass storage device, or some odd MTP/PTP thing
<popey> I'd ask the manufacturer :)
<AlanBell> it is likely to be a mass storage device, it isn't new enough to be weird
<davmor2> dubac0: Sansa Fuse
<davmor2> dubac0: oh sorry I thought you were after a player
<dubac0> popey, its and mp3 player
<AlanBell> dubac0: yup, but from the point of view of the computer when you plug it in, it is probably just like a USB thumb drive
<popey> dubac0, i know :)
<dubac0> ok
<dubac0> tack
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> hello MooDoo
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning me owld mukka
<MooDoo> davmor2: alright geeza, long time nah speak, how's it 'angin?
<davmor2> MooDoo: still recovering from the email explosion that hit me email inbox after a week off, a week in London and then another week off machine is still currently sorting them :(  Flat is still partially upside down but I have a rad in office now woohoo!
<MooDoo> flat?  you moved?
<davmor2> MooDoo: no heating got updated by the council so we had to box everything up, then the week the work was done I was in London on a sprint and then a week off to unpack
<MooDoo> davmor2: good luck then geeza lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: we are in the upacking and sorting phase at the moment
<MooDoo> davmor2: well glad to see you got your priorities right :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh yes get the machines to do all the work ;)
<MooDoo> :)
<mungojerry> anyone like the cool name of that tory MP?
<mungojerry> michael fabricant
<mungojerry> sounds like something from terminator or blade runner
<mungojerry> caption anyone? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/news-in-pictures-8026326.html?action=gallery&ino=13
<dwatkins> "I can't see anything in this costume, can you?"
<dwatkins> (helps to know that 'Aussichtsterrassen' means 'observation terrace')
<davmor2_> mungojerry: and there was me thinking it was something you stuck in your washing machine to soften your washing :D
<mungojerry> i can't see anything but that nice guy from apple said just keep walking straight ahead and we'll find it
<dwatkins> 'move along'?
<BigRedS_> I'm after a case for my kindle that means I can chuck it in an overfull bag with reckless abandon and it probably wont break. Any suggestions?
<mungojerry> my wife has a nice cheap padded one
<BigRedS_> yeah, I'm pondering those. Or making some crazy wooden box for it
<mungojerry> missis got hers from tesco
<BigRedS_> Everything that claims to protect it seems to assume my worry is a scratched screen, not a cracked one
<BigRedS_> But my current 'solution' of a tupperware contaier works really well, excpet for being about 12 times thicker than the kindle
 * popey stabs his acer revo
<einonm> BigRedS_:  I used an old heavy  leather diary cover for mine. Worked a treat, until it conked out
<mungojerry> i saw popey on a bbc news article t'other day
<mungojerry> trying to find it again
<SuperMatt> why would you subject yourself to such torture *again*?
 * davmor2_ watches popey get catapulted across the room from the electric shock from stabbing said revo
<mungojerry> popey, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20452192
<mungojerry> is that you?
<daubers> mungojerry: That really does look suspiciously like popey......
<mungojerry> yeah
<mungojerry> more popey than elvis
<popey> can't be me, it's public transport
<davmor2> popey: looks like a London double decker and I know you don't drive to London ;)
<popey> lies
<popey> I love driving in London
<mungojerry> there are popey replicas among us
<shauno> I think he's just spreading disinformation
<daubers> BEWARE THE POPELICANTS!
<daubers> In just 5 years time, 90% of the earths surface will be covered with them!
 * daubers goes to find a tinfoil hat and a shotgun
<mungojerry> yes, it's a weak argument
<popey> \o/ fixed revo
 * popey unstabs it
<davmor2> popey: reheheally I think you LIE! nobody enjoys driving in London fullstop :P
<popey> i do :)
<popey> always have
<davmor2> popey: also if you look really carefully you'll notice that the guy in the picture has a horrendous Hawaiian Shirt on under that Coat :D
 * daubers has to go to London tomorrow :(
<daubers> Client is somewhere near Kensington, so I think I might accidentally end up in the Science Museum while trying to find Paddington on the way home
<davmor2> daubers: but paddington is really easy to find he is the only bear I know in a duffel coat and trilby hat
<daubers> davmor2: Just follow the marmalade paw prints?
<davmor2> daubers: or set up a sandwich trap
<AlanBell> mrevell: have you met the entry requirements for https://launchpad.net/~not-canonical ?
<mrevell> AlanBell, I suppose i have :)
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> gosh, well congratulations on the new role :)
<daubers> what is mrevell doing now?
<mrevell> Thanks AlanBell :)
<davmor2> mrevell: is breaking databases now ermmmm promoting I always get them confused ;)
<mrevell> daubers, I'm Community Manager for EMEA at Basho, the people behind the open source schema-less database Riak.
<mrevell> davmor2, Helping other people break them :)
<AlanBell> which is like couchdb, except in erlang, like couchdb is
<AlanBell> as far as I can make out
<czajkowski> daubers: you're in london tomorrow, mrevell has an event on in london tomrorow
<daubers> czajkowski: I hope to only be in London for precisley 120 minutes, 30 minutes of tubes, 30 minutes of dealing with a customer and 60 minutes of the science museum :)
<daubers> (60 minutes too many IMHO)
<czajkowski> bah
<mrevell> AlanBell, Riak is a key value store and has an emphasis on scalability and availability, which is really quite unlike CouchDB ;)
<mrevell> heh
<mrevell> AlanBell, But yeah, same sort of thing â¦ a NoSQL db
<daubers> mrevell: So "Big Data" stuffs really then?
<AlanBell> I was doing NoSQL for many years, until it became fashionable
<mrevell> I'm sure I still have my Lotus Notes client licence somewhere...
<AlanBell> yeah, that was me :)
<AlanBell> I knew Damien Katz a bit
<mrevell> Erlang seems pretty cool, actually. One of my personal goals for next year is to get Riak into Universe.
<davmor2> daubers: 60 minutes too many you want to drop the tube and customer bit then?
<daubers> davmor2: Exactley
<daubers> davmor2: I'm pretty sure remote desktop was invented to help me avoid ever having to go to London
<popey> mrevell, pimped to greater london linux user group?
<davmor2> daubers: just get yourself a job as night security at the science museum and set up a bunk in the cellar done right?
<mrevell> popey, Yeah, I sent a mail along earlier at czajkowski's suggestion.
<daubers> davmor2: Too much time in London then
<popey> ah, ok
<BigRedS> I've a 'proper' ubuntu 12.10 'server edition' CD from a goodie bag at UDS. IS it probably a LiveCD?
<AlanBell> BigRedS: nope, server isn't
<BigRedS> bah
 * BigRedS has a new coaster
<BigRedS> :)
<popey> ooh, i dont have one of them
<popey> need to update my collection
<BigRedS> do you want this one? I guess you can get hold of them pretty easily
<popey> nah, its okay
<davmor2> BigRedS: the clue is in the title the desktop ones tend to say desktop ;)
<kvarley> When launching TF2 via Steam I get the following message in the terminal window - "You appear to have OpenGL 1.4.0, but we need at least 2.0.0!" How can I upgrade my opengl version?
<kvarley> I'm using fglrx-updates on Ubuntu 12.10. 64bit installation.
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, I just wondered if the ones given out were more, er, friendly?
<davmor2> kvarley: that might be the Opengl supported by your gfx driver rather than the version installed maybe, I could be wrong though
<kvarley>  davmor2: Ah ok. I have no idea how to fix it. Only thing I can think of is trying the beta driver from AMD. But I know if I upgrade to that I can no longer control screen brightness so I don't want to do that if possible.
<gord> kvarley, pastebin the output of glxinfo
<gord> will need to install mesa-utils to get that binary
<kvarley> gord: mesa-utils wasn't installed, is that bad?
<gord> its normal
<kvarley> gord: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1389202/
<kvarley> gord: "server glx version string: 1.4" means opengl 1.4 ?
<gord> kvarley, your gpu/driver supports gl 4.0. it looks like a bug in valves code in how they look up opengl, tell them to stop being crap
<gord> or send a bug if you can, they probably appreciate that more
<kvarley> gord: hehe :) thanks for the help
<BigRedS> I keep seeing 'devops' job ads that don't mention any particular language for the 'dev' half. Have I misunderstood what devops is?
<diplo> BigRedS: Anything/everything ?
<diplo> Pretty much my job is like that
<AlanBell> http://interviews.slashdot.org/story/12/11/26/1410236/ask-mark-shuttleworth-anything
<AlanBell> or just, um, ask Mark anything by emailing him or pinging him on IRC
<AlanBell> I guess this is "ask Mark anything with an audience looking at what you are asking"
<SuperMatt> slashdot is the most vocally anti-ubuntu website out there. I can't see this going over to well
<BigRedS> does he normally answer questions emailed at him? If I had a question for him, I'm not sure I'd expect to be able to just email him about it
<popey> AlanBell, it's going where the users are
<popey> if there were any users left looking at /. of course :)
 * AlanBell looks at slashdot still
<AlanBell> BigRedS: sure he does, he is very responsive
<davmor2> AlanBell: yeah but you got way too much time on your hands ;)
<AlanBell> or just ask him stuff on IRC if you see sabdfl online
<AlanBell> helps if you have something worth asking of course
<AlanBell> davmor2: I just haven't got the hang of reddit
<davmor2> AlanBell: red....what ;)
<BigRedS> AlanBell: yeah, I don't, but I still wouldn't expect that to be a thing he does. I can see why people don't just email him questions and instead use an 'Ask Mark' session
<BigRedS> Haha, reddit's currently my biggest time sink, I think
<popey> its /. not reddit, the AMA on reddit hasn't happened yet AIUI
<AlanBell> davmor2: indeed, it is a very old fashioned looking web forum thing, with no particular features that make it suitable for real time interaction, but it is surprisingly popular
<BigRedS> Yeah, I just thought the conversation had shifted to reddit
<AlanBell> which is critisism that could also apply to slashdot
<BigRedS> "old fashioned" isn't criticism!
<popey> cf: mailing lists :)
<AlanBell> mailing lists are more suited to real time discussions than web forums
<BigRedS> real time?
<popey> depends on the user
<AlanBell> interactive
<popey> I've seen people send mails to lists and then reply immediately with "bump" to speed up responses
<popey> because they were seen as slow compared to forums
<AlanBell> I have unread marks and don't have to refresh the page to see new stuff inserted into threads
<BigRedS> mailing lists are more threaded than most forums, but other than that the real-timeliness seems about the same
<popey> I am not going to argue with you about lists vs forums
<popey> i hate forums
<popey> but other people like them
<popey> strangely
<SuperMatt> I hate forums *and* mailing lists
<AlanBell> yup, forums would be fine if they had unread marks and AJAX insertion of new content
<SuperMatt> tbh, I hate email
<BigRedS> On unthreaded forums you can usually go to the first unread message
<BigRedS> but threaded ones tend to not know which bits of the page you've read yet
<SuperMatt> one that did it well was b3ta.com. It'd put a little mark next to anything which wasn't there the last time you looked at the page
<AlanBell> exactly, and to get new stuff you have to refresh the page, and it doesn't distinguish between stuff you just read, and the new bits
<popey> \o/
<popey> i recall this argument some 8 years ago :)
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> yeah, I think the use cases are normally different enough that people who like forums don't want them to be like mailing lists
<BigRedS> AlanBell: to get the new stuff from a mailing list you have to switch to the next message...
<AlanBell> yeah, this is an old argument, I was just hoping that someone would tell me I am an idiot and missed the "turn on unread marks and ajax" button somewhere
<popey> has nobody seriously made a forum which does ajax?
<mgdm> I'm sure there are a few
<popey> i wrote a screenscraper once which ripped posts from ubuntu forums and put them in a db, so you could then do what you want with them, put them into a news group or mail
<davmor2> popey: surely you want a forum that uses vim not ajax ;)
<X3N> Has planet ubuntu uk been killed off?
<BigRedS> an ajaxy forum would irritate the crap out of me. I already dislike it when Twitter breaks my scroll bar
<popey> i try to force myself to use vim
<popey> yes X3N
<X3N> booooo
<popey> like those apple keynotes where the news sites do ajaxy autorefreshy page things
<popey> we should do that ;)
<mgdm> 'Ajax' doesn't have to mean 'breaks scroll bars'
<AlanBell> yup, like that, but threaded and with context
<mgdm> that's only when people do it wrong
<mgdm> it doesn't automatically require infinite scrolling or whatever
<AlanBell> nope, just event based DOM manipulation
 * AlanBell wonders if mrevell knows if riak has callbacks like the couchdb streaming stuff
<AlanBell> something like this would be handy http://guide.couchdb.org/draft/notifications.html
<davmor2> AlanBell: go to the event and ask the people who would know ;)
<AlanBell> yeah, might do
<BigRedS> mgdm: no, but I assumed that automatically inserting posts in threads would break my scrollbar
<BigRedS> Perhaps it wont - there are many very good reasons I don't do websites, and this may well be one of them :)
<AlanBell> BigRedS: doubt it, much less than inserting a chunk of content at the bottom of the page
<BigRedS> Ah, fair enough. I'll maintain my enforced distance from anything to do with UI design :)
<AlanBell> just installed couchdb, might prototype something later
<BigRedS> Actually, that's a lie. I intend to spend this evening interfering with somebody else's JS...
 * AlanBell hugs apt-get
<daubers> Hooray! Something small to cheer me up, off to look at a kitten this evening
<brianb> hi need some help with getting flash player working in both firefox and google chrome on ubuntu 12.04
<AlanBell> hi brianb
<AlanBell> !flash
<lubotu3> To install Flash see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash - See also  !Restricted and !Gnash
<brianb> i have flash installed well according to google chrome but it will not load
<AlanBell> chrome is a bit different as flash is built in to that
<brianb> if i type chrome://plugins and expand the details i can see Adobe Flash player with the corresponding version and its enabled
<brianb> but when i try and stream say bbc live news all i get is flash player is not loaded
<AlanBell> Flash - Version: 11.2 r202
<AlanBell> that version?
<brianb> yes
<AlanBell> dunno if it will help, but you could try closing all chrome windows, then running it from a terminal and seeing if there is any informative output when you view flash sites
<brianb> its the same version as used in firefox
<brianb> i think therev is a compatibility problem with ubuntu
<AlanBell> works for me
<AlanBell> in chromium and chrome and firefox
<brianb> both 10.10 and 12.04 will not play a flash stream
<AlanBell> I am using 12.10 but I get the same version of flash
<brianb> well flah works on the same machine when booted to windows xp
<AlanBell> how did you install flash?
<AlanBell> via ubuntu-restricted-extras, or the tickbox on the installer or something else?
<brianb> via the ubuntu site
<brianb> tick box on the software instaler
<AlanBell> ok, it should just work then :)
<AlanBell> in a terminal can you type ls -l /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
<brianb> ok so if i go into a terminal can i completely uninstall flash and then reinstall
<AlanBell> and tell me if you see as the first line lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root     37 Nov  9 08:23 flashplugin-alternative.so -> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-flashplugin
<brianb> yes but the date is 2012-11-26
<AlanBell> ok, that doesn't matter
<brianb> also have some entries for totem
<AlanBell> you can do sudo apt-get install flashplugin-installer
<AlanBell> or sudo apt-get remove flashplugin-installer
<MartijnVdS> not purge?
<AlanBell> that too
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get purge flashplugin-installer
<AlanBell> but I am not really expecting that to make a heap of difference
<brianb> have removed the flash as you suggested
<brianb> looking at the first line it still has the flash plugin
<MartijnVdS> you need to restart the browser after installing or removing a plugin
<MartijnVdS> Chrome comes with its own copy of flash built in
<brianb> so having used the remove cmd what should i do next
<MartijnVdS> Restart your web browser.
<brianb> chrome:?
<MartijnVdS> Firefox
<MartijnVdS> Chrome has its own flash built in, if that doesn't work, that's very strange
<AlanBell> chrome should use /opt/google/chrome/PepperFlash/libpepflashplayer.so
<brianb> well firefox will not display any flash player say on the BBC site
<brianb> and looking at the plugin tab flash is still there
<MartijnVdS> brianb: After restarting? You must have some other Flash plugin installed.
<MartijnVdS> brianb: one of the "alternative" Flash replacements
<brianb> shockwave flash
<MartijnVdS> brianb: it should list the name of the plugin as "something.so"
<MartijnVdS> brianb: can you copy that name here?
<brianb> where in the terminal or looking at the plugin tab on firefox
<MartijnVdS> in the Plugins tab
<MartijnVdS> it has "Shockwave Flash" -> "File: something.so", "Version: etc."
<brianb> shockwave flash 11.2r202
<MartijnVdS> How did you install Flash initially?
<MartijnVdS> Did you restart the browser?
<brianb> yes started browser
<MartijnVdS> you closed all Firefox windows?
<brianb> i guess initally it was installed when ubuntu was installed
<brianb> can i get rid of flash in chrome and in firfox and then restart again
<MartijnVdS> uhh
<MartijnVdS> you can't get rid of Flash in Chrome
<MartijnVdS> because Chrome comes with its own copy of Flash
<MartijnVdS> which is not in the same location as the copy Firefox uses
<MartijnVdS> they're completely separate
<brianb> ok so if chrome was uninstalled leaving just firefox then if i can get flash to work in firfox by installing a version that does work then it would suggest that the version built into chrome was at fault
<MartijnVdS> brianb: No
<brianb> why
<MartijnVdS> brianb: The flash that is built into Chrome is completely separate from the one in Firefox
<MartijnVdS> Firefox can't use the Chrome Flash plugin
<MartijnVdS> Chrome won't use the other (Firefox) one
<brianb> so why are both browsers showning the same version plugin
<MartijnVdS> Because that's the latest version
<MartijnVdS> with all security fixes, etc.
<brianb> well can i drop back to a early version
<MartijnVdS> unlikely
<AlanBell> two copies of the same thing in different places and with different plugin systems
<brianb> ]why
<AlanBell> this is really odd
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: That's how Chrome's plugin stuff works
<MartijnVdS> well the Pepper ones
<MartijnVdS> My Chrome has:
<MartijnVdS> Shockwave Flash 11.5 r31
<MartijnVdS> my Firefox has:
<AlanBell> flash always just works now
<MartijnVdS>      Shockwave Flash 11.2 r202
<MartijnVdS> so my Chrome plugin version is newer
<MartijnVdS> are you use you're using Chrome, not Chromium?
<MartijnVdS> (Chromium doesn't come with Flash)
<brianb> ok how do i check in the terminal what version chrome
<MartijnVdS> brianb: in Chrome, go to chrome://plugins/
<MartijnVdS> brianb: version of Chrome: chrome://chrome
<brianb> the installed version is googtle chrome 23.0.1271.64
<brianb> Flash is: 11.2 r202
<MartijnVdS> brianb: I'm running the beta, so that might be why I have a newer Flash as well
<brianb> ok so if thee are two different plugins required one for flash and one for mozilla why does mozilla have the same version of flash
<MartijnVdS> It's not like that
<MartijnVdS> Mozilla requires one copy of the Flash plugin, Chrome comes with another (its own) and the systems are not compatible
<brianb> well what version flash will work with mozilla
<MartijnVdS> The one in the package should
 * MartijnVdS hasn't had Flash problems since.. 9.10 or something?
<MartijnVdS> that's Ubuntu 9.10
<brianb> ok i have to disappear for a few hours do you have any suggestions?
<MartijnVdS> brianb:
<MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash
<kvarley> How is screen brightness controlled? Is it handled by the graphics driver?
<jacobw> kvarley: usually by the backlight
<kvarley> jacobw: Yes but what software manages it when you use the function keys?
<kvarley> I'm afraid that if I upgrade to the latest beta driver I will loose the ability to adjust screen brightness as currently I'm using samsung-tools (a workaround package_
<jacobw> kvarley: try it, roll back if it doesn't work :)
<jacobw> kvarley: i'm fairly confident that there won't be a problem
<kvarley> jacobw: Hehe, ok. I will try it when I have some free time. Need my laptop tomorrow so will do it after thats done :) thanks for the help
<davmor2> night all
<popey> evening
<jacobw> evening popey
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jacobw> o/
<bokjhv> Has anyone else's Firefox mucked up with Firefox 17 ?
<shauno> 17?  I'm still on 3.6
<bokjhv> oh Ok
<bokjhv> None of the bookmarks work at all......
<jacobw> what does work?
<bokjhv> hang-on..
<bokjhv> nothing just seems to have totally screwed up  .. cannot connect anywhere .. and yes I am connected.
 * bokjhv has friends in low places :)
<jacobw> layer 2?
<AlanBell> bokjhv: anything daft like proxy settings set?
<AlanBell> or not set, as the case may be
<bootinfdsds> Woow  .. just disconnected for no reason ... ??
<bootinfdsds> Hi Alan .. I did reset the router password .. BTW chrome works fine.
<AlanBell> yeah, but firefox can have different proxy settings
<bootinfdsds> I could reinstall firefox ?
<bootinfdsds> right, dunno.. how to proceed ..
<jacobw> bootinfdsds: http://173.194.41.78
 * AlanBell decides to proceed with a large glass of wine
<bootinfdsds> AlanBell, Are you sure it's todo with proxy settings . It's never been an issue before...
<bootinfdsds> jacobw, OK hang-on.
<AlanBell> I have no idea what it relates to bootinfdsds, I was kind of expecting you to say "oh, yes oops I had a proxy at work earlier" or "nope, I never go anywhere near a network with a proxy"
<popey> \o/ wine
<bootinfdsds> Yeah, I cannot load any webpage at all .. A glass of Merlot sounds nice though. Anyway I guess I'm re-installing firefox, then.
<jacobw> bootinfdsds: what error do you see?
<bootinfdsds> jacobw, Just the basic "Firefox can't find the server at uk.finance.yahoo.com." error for my homepage .
<bootinfdsds> just means nothing is loading.
<jacobw> bootinfdsds: did you see the same error for my link?
<bootinfdsds> yep.
<AlanBell> file-work offline is not ticked is it?
<bootinfdsds> hang-on
<AlanBell> though that would give a different error message
<AlanBell> "Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web."
<bootinfdsds> no.
<bootinfdsds> I'm going to bite the hedgehog and re-install.
<MartijnVdS> poor hedgehog
<bootinfdsds> always thought it would have been a bettr linux symbol,    see.
<jacobw> bootinfdsds: start firefox with alt+f2 â `firefox -P --no-remote`, make a new profile, and see if you can browse then
<bootinfdsds> great, I'm getting PM's now from Warisistan .. great.
<bootinfdsds> OK .. got it back .. checked if all works with this little gem :: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GR4Qz3-PNo
<bootinfdsds> worx good.
<bootinfdsds> AlanBell, I noticed your lovely clip on Ubuntu TV mailing list .. are you going to the Meeting on the 30th at 6pm UTC ??
<AlanBell> oh possibly
<AlanBell> have the TV team found an OEM or reference platform yet?
<bootinfdsds> .. I remembered because you were at the Ubuntu TV youtube vid.
<bootinfdsds> err .. not that I know.
<bootinfdsds> I thnk everyon's eyes are on the Nexus 7 input atmo.
<AlanBell> TV isn't the most exciting area for me to participate with tbh
<AlanBell> I rarely watch TV and I am perfectly happy with sky+ for the stuff I do watch
<bootinfdsds> Yeah, me too.. but I thnk it is a brill. concept.
<bootinfdsds> I chucked out my tv in spring .. it bounced.
<bootinfdsds> Still pay the feckin' license thou ...
<AlanBell> I know there are lots of people who are keen on TV and games and stuff, which is fine, I am just not that into it, and don't see what it has to do with computing really :)
 * bootinfdsds has grinted teeth towards BBC-brother
<bootinfdsds> It's just a bigger monitor to most people don't you agree ( in concept anyway) ??
<bootinfdsds> We have a local TV shop going out of business here. I just thought with the right training that the guy who calls round (cable guy) could be able to fix Ubuntu TV too. ??
<AlanBell> well arguably yes it is a 1920x1080 monitor, but I think for most people it is Eastenders and Corrie in a box
<bootinfdsds> although I imagine that could be done remotely in most cases.
<bootinfdsds> True, but I'm thinking more Khan Academy .. I think Ubuntu is more of a different UX than Mr Sugar intended the sky-box to be.
<AlanBell> well if smart TVs get people watching kahn Academy and TED talks then I am all for it!
<bootinfdsds> If you look at the Xtreamer box , which is basically a load of pre-recorded channels set up on a small atom linux box, you'll see the potential. Just needs less of a $300 price tag.
<bootinfdsds> TED talks .. seen any good one's recently ?
<bootinfdsds> Oh, BTW for everyone else out there , I got a full pack of Frosted shredded wheat from Tesco's for 70p today .. Lasting 5 days or so , I'm getting 20 boxes tomorrow to stock up for the winterisation. Just a thought.
<AlanBell> http://www.ted.com/talks/jay_bradner_open_source_cancer_research.html
<bootinfdsds> usu. cost Â£2
<bootinfdsds> opening...
<AlanBell> that was quite a good one, watched it earlier
<AlanBell> but they are all awesome
<bootinfdsds> quite true, alan.
<shauno> bootinfdsds: we'll heard 'round yours when the zombies come then ;)
<AlanBell> I need to do more preparation for the zombie apocalypse
<shauno> just keep track of who else is stocking up.  you never know when a frosties cache could come in handy
<shauno> way I see it, you stockpile, and you're tied down.  you know who else is stocked up, and you're mobile with options
<bootinfdsds> shauno, I'm just waiting for the Zombie Apocolypse I guess .. AlanBell , here my fav. http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
<bootinfdsds> nice guy from place where Shakespere came from .. where was it again ?
<AlanBell> also like the strandbeast one
<AlanBell> http://www.ted.com/talks/theo_jansen_creates_new_creatures.html
<bootinfdsds> AlanBell, i had a long hard swmoke about the Ã-TV thingy .. I think Mark's revelation was that more people have TV's than PC-boxes  ..and TV's do have CPU's of sorts ..  the pacman is going after the chips
<bootinfdsds> maybe a square peg in a round hole though, I quite agree .
<shauno> the problem with trying to fix TV for me, is that most my issues with it are too deeply entrenched
<bootinfdsds> how so ?
<shauno> most my frustrations boil down to geographic content licensing.  so I can't watch a show from 'there' because they only have the rights to show it 'there'
<bootinfdsds> I can't wait to se the day when we get a USB stick stuck on the front of the Radio Times :)
<popey> hah, i like that idea
<bootinfdsds> popey, Yeah what /did/ happen the that Mini-disc (DVD) idea ?
<shauno> I like the idea of all channels being provided as 'apps' of sorts.  and leave free/subscription/in-app purchases down to what suits the provider's model best.
<bootinfdsds> popey sorry meant to say Mini-DVD ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Comparison_disk_storage.svg
<shauno> abstract out ad-delivery to a third-party, google-ads style, so if I want to watch an american ad-supported network in the UK, the advert provider feeds me british adverts so the american network still gets their pennies per eyeballs
<popey> I'm happy to work around this crap with VPNs personally
<popey> I just finally got xbmc working perfectly at home
<bootinfdsds> shauno, It's just an extra VPN subscription to do all that. usu. Â£5 a month.
<shauno> right.  so I pay ntl to be able to watch bbc on my tv, and then another provider so I can vpn to watch it on my laptop
<popey> also usenet
<bootinfdsds> if it is americae, yes.
<shauno> pay for netflix, and then pay for a up-based vpn so that it actually has some content
<shauno> *us-based
<bootinfdsds> true, quite true.
<popey> its all very wrong
<shauno> I end up paying for everything twice.  pay once for the content, and then again to unbreak it
<bootinfdsds> Word is, in the local pub , some guy is making a fortune making people use 'special codes' to get Netflix USA , when in fact it is only VPN he sets up for them. :)
<shauno> and good luck trying to find a vpn/vps provider in slovakia so my gf can watch tv from home
<bootinfdsds> Well spotify went web-based after all.
<bootinfdsds> shauno, You can just steam it with the laptop in front of the tele. can't you ?
<bootinfdsds> **stream
<shauno> if I can come up with a slovak IP so it lets me, yeah :)
<bootinfdsds> just use her's.
<bootinfdsds> or the bamboo telegraph :)
<bootinfdsds> Apparently this works ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOuhinyGhrY
<shauno> it doesn't help that I'm in ireland, so I'm paying in both directions.  I don't get iplayer for free with some minor hoops for american content
<bootinfdsds> Oh OK, your with the right provider thou. NTL is good.
<shauno> they're less evil than eircom.  but phone companies don't tend to set the bar too high for evil.
<directhex> i dunno, i'm with BT
<directhex> they're pretty evil
<directhex> that said, my BT line has worked far better than any previous ISP i've had
<bootinfdsds> Brilliant BT helpline intro ... http://open.spotify.com/track/14QIAOdHU2moF53egeO6RS
<directhex> oh, i haven't had to *call* them, thank $deity
<bootinfdsds> good 4 you .
<AlanBell> I kind of like plusnet. The line is from BT, and PlusNet are my agent for shouting at BT on my behalf.
<bootinfdsds> Oh Ok .. sounds good in theory, anyway.
<bootinfdsds> So is anyone getting a Nexus 7 for christmas this year ?
 * bootinfdsds has been too naughty :(
<bootinfdsds> it was on the linux action show recently.
<bootinfdsds> Can't wait for birthday in february though ><
<bootinfdsds> I re-discovered some Ubuntu books on TPB today   .. typical naughty stuff as per usual.
<bootinfdsds> I think oreilly media has a 50 % off sale for pdf's until 6am on Tuesday (Tomorrow).
<bootinfdsds> probably take debit card, me thinks.
<bootinfdsds> popey, have you seen any other games other than 'space-suit zero' that are linux-bound on kickstarter recently ??
<bootinfdsds> I am slightly dissappointed that there isn't a Raspberry Pi channel on freenode .. or not AFAIK
<AlanBell> there is7
<bootinfdsds> go on .. called.
<AlanBell> 373 people in #raspberrypi
<bootinfdsds> checking...
<bootinfdsds> nothing is coming up .. hang-on.
<AlanBell> odd, maybe you have to be registered or something
<AlanBell> bootinfdsds: you typed /join #raspberrypi or similar?
<bootinfdsds> yeah, that's it.
<AlanBell> !register
<bootinfdsds> just not registered
<AlanBell> gah, the bots are offline
<bootinfdsds> registering ...
<bootinfdsds> Wow .. just checked my email and I have a message from Stallman ..
<popey> does it mention parrots?
<bootinfdsds> no but there's a giraffe in it :)
<bootinfdsds> popey, did you see my question 15 minutes ago  ??
<Azelphur> so, I just got the keys to my new flat, anyone good at home automation on a budget? I need to pimp all the things. :D
<popey> which question bootinfdsds ?
<bootinfdsds> oooow .. home improvements  .. try hue lighting first.
<bootinfdsds> kickstarter @22:32pm
<popey> oh, yes, a few
<bootinfdsds> It'd be nice if you could Google Plus afew for everyone, and you are more of a bettr judge as to whether it'll work on Ubuntu, or not
 * bootinfdsds 's frosted shredded wheat addiction is cooling off for today, at last
<bootinfdsds> OK .. off to beddsie's .. sorry to bore you all.
<popey> oooh golly
<popey> shredded wheat
<popey> not had that for a while
 * popey sends an email to wifey to enact "shredded wheat" in the next shop
<bootinfdsds> popey .. see 21:41pm entry.
<bootinfdsds> bye
<popey> ttfn
<popey> hahah
<bootinfdsds> popey, no the one about shredded wheat before that ... ok defo off 2 bed now. bye
<popey> bootinfdsds, yeah, that's what I was laughing at :)
<czajkowski> popey: it;s gonna end up on your shopping list for saturday!
<popey> Oh yes, it is!
<popey> I want some now
 * popey gets weetabix instead
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-27
<popey> i can haz 3 weetabix
 * xnox .o0( multi grain cheerios *nom* *nom*)
<diplo> Morning
<daubers_> Morning
<theopensourcerer> Yay - we can haz warp drives: http://io9.com/5963263/how-nasa-will-build-its-very-first-warp-drive
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<Laney> yay
<Laney> got me OS maps of the lakes
<Laney> holiday next week \o/
<popey> i bought some old maps off ebay recently
<popey> re-prints of ones from the early 1900's
<gord> google maps through time would be really cool
<gord> it could even pick up photos from the time period. though i guess the gps tags would be off ;)
<Laney> popey: I got some of those from Waterstones
<Laney> they were surprisingly cheap - like 2.50
<Laney> it's cool to look at them and try to work out where stuff is
<einonm> There's a great map shop in Hay on Wye that does nothing but old maps. I think most of them are quite pricey though, probably being originals
<popey> yeah, i was disappointed when mine arrived because it shows farnborough but not the bit I'm in, on the edge of town :(
<popey> then about a week later I flipped the map over :D
<czajkowski> lol
<Laney> heh
<Laney> i've got a now/then framed comparison thingy on the wall
<Laney> http://www.cassinimaps.co.uk/shop/framed.asp
<daubers> "It's a vast featureless desert out there!" "No sir, thats the back of the map"
<popey> hah
<daubers> Trip to London rescheduled to Thursday \o/
<daubers> I love the unreliability of trains
<AlanBell> daubers: I might be in London on Thursday
<daubers> AlanBell: I'll be in Kensington for a few hours in the morning
<daubers> More importantly.... picking up the little kitten this evening \o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bootinfdsds> mornin' terrible night's sleep.
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: your still here dude
<bigcalm> popey: what's that random background picker you use?
<popey> variety
<bigcalm> In USC?
<popey> http://launchpad.net/variety
<popey> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/variety/
<bigcalm> Yep, in USC :)
<popey> click the link on that page, see what happens :)
<bigcalm> Thanky
<davmor2> popey: I bet it's an arb app that is yet to be updated to Quantal :(
<popey> yup
<bigcalm> Humm, doesn't seem to be working with xfce :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: are you on quantal?
<bigcalm> davmor2: no, I'm sticking with LTS on my workstation
<davmor2> bigcalm: did it install and not run?
<bigcalm> It installs and runs. But isn't changing my desktop backgrounds
<davmor2> bigcalm: what the delay on it or can you trigger it straight away?
<bigcalm> davmor2: the delay is 5 mins, but you can trigger with a click. No change
<davmor2> bigcalm: yet another app that hates you then :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: I think you've been telling people to dev apps that won't work for me :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: to be fair it might use some gnomey thing to trigger the change which is why it doesn't work it is made for ubuntu after all :D
<bigcalm> Do you mean unity?
<bigcalm> Because I'm using xubuntu
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I mean Ubuntu which is unity's desktop name rather that Xubuntu which is the xfce's desktop name :P
<bigcalm> That's confusing
<bigcalm> Humm, there is a bug against variety on LP which mentions XFCE and LXDE. So maybe it does work, just not for me
<bootinfdsds> Has anyone seen any kickstarter.com/ games that can be used on Ubuntu lately ??
<davmor2> bigcalm: Ubuntu cd's have the unity desktop, Xubuntu cd's have the xfce desktop it is fairly simply really
<popey> bootinfdsds, ones that are complete or ones that are currently under development?
<bootinfdsds> Oh hi popey, the one's that you want to see funded most.
<bootinfdsds> under devel.
<popey> dunno, directhex probably has a better knowledge of them
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous is popular
<bootinfdsds> does he ? directhex ?
<popey> not even half way
<bootinfdsds> opening...
<directhex> hm?
<einonm> ..but elite-dangerous is PC only, with some vague promise of other platforms if it goes over the target. That was most annoying to find out.
<popey> yeah
<bootinfdsds> true
<bootinfdsds> any linux definately .. games ?
<BigRedS> einonm: where "PC" = "Windows"?
<Ng> popey: I do hope that Elite's target is attainable
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KickstarterGames
<einonm> BigRedS: I assume, as it is the common parlance for the term
<Ng> I want to play that game!
<popey> someone has made a list!
<davmor2> bootinfdsds: broken sword when it is released
<bootinfdsds> Awesome popey ! thanx. have to say Interstellar Marines: Prologue has no chance !
<bigcalm> Installing from LP worked
<bigcalm> Silly USC
<bigcalm> We're still waiting for Vessel :(
<bigcalm> Variety also only changes the bg of one of my screens
<popey> you have a silly x setup tho :)
<bigcalm> Humf. I have a reasonable set-up for a developer ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: no you don't :P
<einonm> surely proper developers don't use X?
<bigcalm> Ug, here we go :)
<bootinfdsds> Sir, You Are Being Hunted looks awesome .. from Bath no less !
<bootinfdsds> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1499900830/sir-you-are-being-hunted
<davmor2> bigcalm: you started it
<bigcalm> This looked like a possibility for my need of a touch screen, annoyed that it's out of stock. http://www.chalk-elec.com/?page_id=1280#!/~/product/category=3094861&id=14647624
<bigcalm> I now have it working for all 3 monitors :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: is Alex joining us on Thursday?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no word from him and he isn't on irc currently well at least not in the rooms I'm in
<bigcalm> Ok. Might find out tomorrow evening then
<bootinfdsds> davmor2, Just looking at Sword Of Justice , yeah, what was that all about ? http://goo.gl/zzxSq
<davmor2> bootinfdsds: I have no idea I pointed you so broken sword but there kickstart is over and more than sucessful
<bootinfdsds> no probs.
<bootinfdsds> guess some people just use kickstarter toi make a quick buck, or try to.
<andylockran> exit
<andylockran> oosp
<andylockran> trying to close too many windows
<davmor2> bigcalm: and then there were 3
<BigRedS> andylockran: ctrl+d :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: aye, saw the tweet. Glad that it hasn't died a complete death
<bigcalm> davmor2: going by the lug ml, there will be a mob of 17 hungry curry eaters. I do hope Ron's reservation can cope
<andylockran> merci
<BigRedS> popey: are you running raring on your thinkpad? Mine keeps shutting down claiming CPU overheating, and I'm wondering whether it's a power issue in the kernel or I need to take a hoover to its innerds...
<popey> BigRedS, 12.04
<popey> i get it on 12.04 too
<BigRedS> Ahh
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1391971/
<BigRedS> eesh
<BigRedS> yeah
<popey> thats not overheat
<popey> Package power limit notification
<popey> Core temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled   that is
<popey> AIUI
<BigRedS> No, I've not checked any logs yet - I upgraded yesterday and I've only tried to use it today and it's off now.
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ dmesg | grep -c temperature\ above
<popey> 10
<popey> not often
<popey>  16:05:10 up 7 days,  7:48,  4 users,  load average: 0.93, 0.76, 0.78
<popey> probably when playing minecraft :D
<BigRedS> yeah, I suppose I'll have a fiddle this eve when I'm not trying to do work...
<BigRedS> Hm, thinking about it, I had this briefly with 12.04 too
<BigRedS> but then the disk failed and I replaced it and stuck 12.10 on it
<brianb> does anyone know the reason why both Firefox and Google Chrome (inc Chromium) fail to load and display adobe flash content on web pages in ubuntu 12.04?
<brianb> Also is both Firefox and google Chrome running in protected mode via the sandbox mechanism - which could be the reason why both browsers fail to play out a flash website content?
 * czajkowski tickles popey 
<daftykins> :o
<MartijnVdS> brianb: no, that's not it
<MartijnVdS> brianb: because it works for a lot of people
<directhex> less than an hour on the steam sale
<BigRedS> I keep seeing your recommendations when I'm not in a good place to act upon them
<BigRedS> I did try to buy Serious Sam, but apparently I've already got it. Does that come with the beta?
<brianb> well explain why chrome will not load shockwave flashplug in then
<BigRedS> fancy starting it in a terminal and pastebinning what it outputs?
<BigRedS> or should we just divine the reason?
<popey> brianb, got a specific example of flash content? e.g. http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/
<popey> if you have flash installed, that page will tell you
<popey> e.g. for me it says "You have version 11,2,202,251 installed"
<brianb> clearly the error message displayed in the chrome browser says its not loading hence if i could load it manually then that would help with whats causing the issue
<brianb> the content is the any BBC media - i.e. BBC radio 2 will not play, BBC new Live no sound or video
<brianb> if i go to chrome://plugins and expand details the version for Chrome is 11.2 r202
<brianb> the same version also for firefox
<popey> brianb, what does http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/ give you?
<popey> in chrome I get "You have version 11,5,31,2 installed"
<brianb> in Chrome it displays the web page with no flash content - top line after the address bar  the following message - could not load shockwave flash
<popey> brianb, has it ever worked on that machine?
<brianb> not on the latest version of ubuntu from 10.10 or 12.04 it has worked with older versions of ubuntu
<brianb> it works on windows on the same machine
<brianb> the machine has multi boot
<brianb> and i have some space to instal other linux distos
<popey> is it a 64-bit install of ubuntu?
<brianb> 32 bit i belive
<brianb> how can i check in termal
<popey> uname -a
<popey> does it mention i686 or x86_64 ?
<brianb> no is returns i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
<brianb> 3.2.0-33 generic pae 52-Ubuntu
<AlanBell> it mentions i686 then :) you have a 32 bit install
<brianb> yes
<popey> ok
<brianb> i dont download x64 only have one machine that is 64bit
<popey> thats fine, just checking what it was installed
<popey> brianb, in chrome, click the button in the top right corner, click 'about google chrome', what version does it display? mine is "Version 23.0.1271.64"
<brianb> see i think for whatever reason because its not loading shockwave flash thats the problem which is related to both browser
<popey> chrome and firefox don't share the same flash, which makes this very odd
<brianb> version 23.0.1271.91
 * popey updates his chrome
<Azelphur> I just feel like mentioning that I officially want to stab Santander in the face
<Azelphur> tis the season to be randomly freezing my bank account every 5 minutes \o/
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> good times
<brianb> ok so when you access a web site with flash content there must be a trigger that launches a file to activate the flash plug in
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> Azelphur: fala-lalala-lala-la-la indeed.
<Azelphur> daftykins: I filed a complaint, they sent me a text to say the complaint was registered, then 5 minutes later another one saying the complaint had been closed.
<Azelphur> :@
<daftykins> :o
<daftykins> with no action taken? just ignored
<Azelphur> seems so, yes.
<AlanBell> brianb: sure, the browser loads the plugin, and the chrome method for doing so is entirely different to the firefox method
<davmor2> daftykins: Oi no! none of that till the first sighting of the coke advert happens
<AlanBell> brianb: did you try starting chrome from a terminal to see if it outputs anything interesting when it tries to load a flash object?
<popey> ok, updated to same version of chrome as brianb and it still works here
<daftykins> davmor2: sorry. it was in a sarcastic 'santander, you suck' way at least...
<Azelphur> haha
<brianb> yeah but within the sandbox mechanism is this which implements flash plugin?
<daftykins> Azelphur: does it stop web login and your cards too?
<Azelphur> daftykins: it lets me login to the web, it completely freezes my card.
<popey> brianb, have you actively enabled anything in chrome which might disable flash?
<brianb> soso how do i launch chrome from the terminal
<Azelphur> even for 100% reputable stuff, like I can't use my debit card to pay off the balance on my credit card to use that instead *bangs head against wall*
<popey> brianb, open a terminal and type "google-chrome"
<AlanBell> brianb: to launch chrome from the terminal first close every single chrome window and type google-chrome to restart it
<brianb> i take it you mean all tabs
<daftykins> Azelphur: doh! i'm juggling some money around atm ahead of a house purchase, hopefully won't get any surprises :S
<AlanBell> I mean close chrome altogether
<AlanBell> so don't leave one chrome window on a different workspace running or something like that
<Azelphur> daftykins: fun, I juggle BTC, so every time they do this and freeze my account like this I lose money, this one cost me ~Â£30 -.-
<daftykins> every tab, every window
<daftykins> BTC?
<Azelphur> http://www.weusecoins.com/
<popey> killall chrome
<popey> :)
<brianb> ok at present i have multiple tabs so if i close chrome all tabs will close then go to the terminal and launch chrome from there
<daftykins> oh that jazz
<daftykins> is there actually any point to that?
<AlanBell> brianb: sure, that is fine, just close chrome
<brianb> i have done that and all tabs reopen
<einonm> Ooh, Jonathan Corbet has just reviewed ubuntu on the Nexus7, on LWN
<Azelphur> daftykins: instant transaction feeless anonymous decentralised currency? ...yes?
<AlanBell> brianb: fine, now go to a flash website, and look at the terminal, is anything interesting output there?
<daftykins> what situations does that ever help in though? i've never read up about it
<Azelphur> ain't no banks freezing my bitcoin wallet xD
<daftykins> only seen the name get thrown around IRC a lot
<brianb> and still get the message - could not load shockwave flash
<AlanBell> brianb: in the terminal window, is there any text?
<AlanBell> ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:957:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) The dmix plugin supports only playback stream
<AlanBell> for example?
<Azelphur> daftykins: it's extremely cheap to send money abroad using it, usually you'd have to go through western union or something which would charge you like $10, with bitcoin, USA is the same as EU pretty much.
<Azelphur> It's also a worldwide currency, so no currency exchange fees either
<daftykins> Azelphur: ah ok. don't think i'd ever benefit then really
<Azelphur> daftykins: it's also really cool, open source money, :D
<brianb> well have to look at terminal
<Azelphur> daftykins: but yea, I buy bulk chunks from miners at a low price, then sell on to people (usually via UK bank transfer) and flip a little profit in the process :D
<brianb> what sort of thing am i looking for in the terminal
<daftykins> Azelphur: how sneaky :o
<Azelphur> hehe
<AlanBell> brianb: any text following your google-chrome command
<Azelphur> I wouldn't say sneaky, I don't lie about what I'm doing, most of the miners/big traders arn't interested in dealing with amounts below Â£500
 * dwatkins heads home whilst it's still above freezing
<brianb> right i have an ERROR:webplugin_delegate_proxy.cc(407)
<AlanBell> oooh
<AlanBell> that is interesting
<brianb> pluginMsg_Init returned false
<brianb> Could't initalize plug-in
<brianb> HTTP request sent, awaiting response ..... 200 OK
<directhex> BigRedS, you know you can buy games from the android/ios app, right? or any web browser
<daftykins> as long as you wade through the tedious device authentication, so you can get to your named email account
<brianb> so it looks like the plugin is not being Initialized
<AlanBell> yeah, but now we have a more informative error message (slightly)
<daftykins> nuke it and start again? :)
<directhex> by "any web browser" i mean "not mobile IE, since the steamguard auth popup doesn't render properly in it"
<AlanBell> brianb: can you close chrome then run
<AlanBell> google-chrome --disable-bundled-ppapi-flash
<AlanBell> and see if that makes any difference at all
<brianb> can hold one sec - i am loging into xchat on the machine runing 12.04 with the problem so i can copy and past the term message if you want
<brianb> would you like me to open up a personal channel so i can past the terminal msg?
<jacobw> use pastebin
<jacobw> !paste
<jacobw> !pastebin
<brianb> i dont know about pastbin
<jacobw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<jacobw> brianb: you can upload any peice of text and get a link back to it that you can give to people
 * jacobw hunts and kills to absent bot
<brianb> ok i think i have copy and pasted the error to paste bin
<daftykins> now paste the page link in here
<brianb> paste.ubuntu.com/1392296/
<brianb> right now going to close chrome and relaunch in terminal using the disable command
<brianb> have pasted the msg which is returned after --disable-bundled-ppapi-flash
<brianb> paste.ubuntu.com/1392329/
<brianb> so in each case it would appear that the ERROR is related to not being able to initialize the plug in
<popey> thats sending a crashdump to google
<brianb> what does that mean
<popey> well, not really directly related to your flash issue
<popey> but chrome is sending crash data to google HQ for them to analyse
<brianb> so what will be the outcome from that if any?
<popey> none directly
<brianb> so really no further advance on the issue then?
<popey> no
<brianb> guess if Firefox was lanuched from the terminal then it would also generate a crash report as well
<popey> nope
<brianb> would any information be gleaned by launching firefox from a terminal
<popey> it might, yes
<popey> you could try firefox with a new clean profile too
<brianb> shall i try it
<popey> but one thing at a time
<brianb> ok give me directions
<popey> firefox -CreateProfile "test"
<popey> firefox -profile "test"
<popey> the second command will launch a clean firefox
<popey> then visit the adobe page given previously http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/
<brianb> thiok have done that
<brianb> so do i tye in the HTTP address in the new tab address bar or from the terminal?
<popey> address bar
<brianb> ok done that
<popey> does flash load?
<brianb> no but the web page displays information on downloading flash player it appears to be a different page to when i opened it up in chrome
<popey> it will be
<popey> okay, close firefox
<popey> do this in a terminal:-
<popey> sudo apt-get install --reinstall flashplugin-installer
<popey> and copy/paste what appears to pastebin please
<brianb> there is no extra information in the terminal
<popey> ok. thanks
<daftykins> xbox dashboard update 0o
<brianb> when the terminal has completed its script you want me to open up a browser and paste the contents into pastebin yes
<popey> yes please
<brianb> paste.ubuntu.com/1392404/
<popey> brianb, now try firefox again?
<brianb> have done still no flash content
<nanas> i'm installing ubuntu on toshiba laptop; got an error message and followed instructions here:
<nanas> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
<nanas> ubuntu is still not booting so next step is to paste here the last message given by repair program:
<nanas> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1392367/
<nanas> when i try to boot message is: the disk drive for /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 is not ready yet or not present
<popey> thats just a warning
<popey> if you wait it usually passes
<nanas> been there for about 10 minutes
<popey> brianb, hmm, chrisccoulson you about? any suggestion why someone can't view flash content in either chrome or ff on a machine?
<daftykins> popey: since that flash installer reinstalled from cache and the plugin from /tmp is it worth knocking those two out and retrying?
<popey> nah
<popey> the flashplugin itself didnt come from cache
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> what's "Installing from local file /tmp/tmpa0_c6j.gz" ?
<popey> look at the line above
<popey> it downloads from the web to /tmp
<daftykins> ah, i was expecting to see that older style line by line progress, guess that's changed
<daftykins> i figured that was overriding the line above, nm
<brianb> i have three folders in usr/lib folder for firefox, folder for firefox-addons and folder flashplugin-installer
<brianb> so i think the flashplugin-installer is maybe used for chrome
<popey> no, it is not
<brianb> ok
<popey> chrome has its own built-in flash plugin
<popey> which lives in /opt/google/chrome/PepperFlash/libpepflashplayer.so for me
<AlanBell> to be precise /opt/google/chrome/PepperFlash/libpepflashplayer.so
<daftykins> heh
<AlanBell> snap
<BigRedS> directhex: yeah, it's card deails I keep misplacing
<popey> I'd love to have a poke around on your system brianb to understand how this is broken :(
<popey> i wonder if the magic command will fix it :)
<popey> brianb, in a terminal can you do this:-
<popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> note the caret on the end is important
<popey> run that and tell me if it wants to install any missing packages?
<daftykins> hmm what does the circumflex do?
<brianb> what the magic co
<brianb> where will i find the caret
<brianb> found it
<popey> it installs the task, which will pull in anything missing
<brianb> ok after going through a long list it ask that linix headers to be installed
<brianb> do i install them?
<daftykins> how is that different to the meta package?
<popey> brianb, :(
<popey> thats probably not going to fix it, no
<popey> daftykins, installing the metapackage won't pull in all the dependents
<daftykins> oh right
<brianb> i tell you what i need to take a break for a few hours so when you said you like to look at my machine you could do that remotely yes
<popey> ok, maybe later :)
<brianb> so if you want to then have to set it up
<brianb> its mainly used to try out various distros
<brianb> but its a very intresting problem
<brianb> its just bugging me why it wont work with adobe flash
<popey> me too
<brianb> i guess thats why Apple dont like flash
<popey> there are many good reasons to not like flash
<daftykins> i'd create another user account for a laugh
<brianb> well i must go be back around 8pm if you want to play around on the machine
<popey> ok see you brianb
<brianb> can you let me know if thats ok
<popey> will do
<brianb> cool
<popey> need to put kids to bed and make food
<brianb> see you at 8
<AlanBell> my brown Jaunty Tshirt has been cut up into rags to make a "boy villager" costume
<popey> i dont think i ever got a jaunty one
<popey> oh. yes i did
<popey> _that_ one
<popey> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=490
<Daviey> i got that, but i didn't buy it...
<Daviey> where would i have got it from?
<Daviey> it's not a UDS one..
<Daviey> The jaunty UDS t-shirt was the 'sports shirt'.. that i hated. :)
<jacobw> homeland \o/
<daftykins> it's certainly no fun rocking outdated shirts
<daftykins> my firefox 3 shirt looks a bit ancient now
<AlanBell> yeah, that one, the tour dates tshirt
 * popey finally goes to make food
<brianb> popey let me know when your free
<popey> yo
<popey> dinner in oven
<popey> so anytime :)
<brianb> ok
<brianb> well what to do first then
<popey> I'll write up some notes
<popey> one mo
<brianb> do you want me to create a new account?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1392735/
<popey> someone want to review those instructions?
<daubers> popey: Looks ok
<popey> brianb, ^^ see that paste, those are the "how to let alan look at my machine" settings
<brianb> ok have opened up the paste bin as see the instuctions
<brianb> so will follow the instructions and will type in here when ready ok
<daubers> Ooof!
<brianb> when i visit the launchpad do i do thid in the terminal or in firefox?
<daubers> Seriously skype? You want 146MB of stuff to work?
<popey> brianb, que?
<popey> daubers, 146MB of 32-bit goodness on a 64-bit box?
<daubers> popey: Unfortunatley so
<popey> so that lot wont even get re-used by anything else really
<daubers> Probably not :(
<brianb> point 2 on the list the sshkeys
<daubers> Stupid 32 bit only binary things
<popey> brianb, you can kinda omit visiting launchpad as I copy pasted the contents immediate below.. the line starting "ssh-rsa..."
<popey> thats the bit that you need for step 4
<andylockran-ipad> Hey
<andylockran-ipad> Phew. Hassle setting up irc on the ipad
<andylockran-ipad> Fancy a nexus 7 for Xmas
<brobostigon> the graphics is amazing, compared to what i seen before. on the nexus7.
<andylockran-ipad> Yeah a friend showed me one at the weekend
<brianb> after i enter alans password it asks me to enter a new value followed by full name [] ?
<popey> my name is "Alan Pope" if you want to, you can enter that
<brianb> room number?
<popey> just press enter for the others
<popey> or make stuff up about me :)
<brianb> right done that
<brianb> now i do point 3
<brianb> so i now create the directorys
<popey> sudo mkdir /home/alan/.ssh
<popey> its the next line
<popey> sorry, i should have been more clear there
<brianb> yes
<popey> just type that
<brianb> what about the ssh key
<popey> sudo nano /home/alan/.ssh/authorized_keys
<popey> a text editor will appear
<popey> paste the bit on line 11 into it
<brianb> i cant see a txt e ok have pasted the ssh key in the directoy
<popey> in step 5, just paste the 3 lines in
<popey> to the terminal
<popey> step 6 will be the fun/tricky bit
<brianb> how do i save in nano
<popey> ctrl+x
<brianb> having problems with nano and lost my terninal
<brianb> done ctrl+x
<brianb> then ask full name to write
<popey> press enter
<popey> it already knows the name as /home/alan/.ssh/authorized_keys  hopefully!
<brianb> so quite nano?
<popey> so you should have done "sudo nano /home/alan/.ssh/authorized_keys"
<popey> and then pasted the line starting ssh-rsa... into it
<popey> then press ctrl+x to exit and save nano
<brianb> yes i have the key pasted into nano
<popey> right. ctrl+x to save
<brianb> it then asks save modified buffer
<popey> say "yes"
<popey> then enter to save it
<brianb> ok back to terminal
<popey> cool
<popey> i need to go and eat my yummy tea, back in ~30
<brianb> ok
 * popey returns
 * popey eats too quickly
<brianb> ok
<brianb> got to port forwarding
<popey> what model of router do you have?
<brianb> have bt inifinty
<popey> hmm, i know nothing about those, I assume it has a web based admin tool
<popey> which can be configured somehow
<brianb> yes just looking it up
<brianb> ok got into the router
<brianb> into port forwarding
<brianb> so what do i enter for game/application?
<brianb> ssh server =secure shell i guess?
<daubers> brianb: Yup
<brianb> and i select the device i.e. the computer which you want to pop around on ok
<brianb> so how do i select port 2222?
<daubers> brianb: Got a screenshot?
<brianb> of what?
<brianb> shall i continue with the instruction on the terminal then can come back to the router
<popey> brianb, hey, sorry, family emergency :)
<daftykins> gitso no longer work? wow it hasn't been developed in ages
<daftykins> guess you only want CLI
<bigcalm> Ug ug
<popey> well this is indeed odd
<popey> i have http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/ open in firefox on brianb's machine
<popey> the bit where the flash video should be is empty, wonder if this is due to me doing this via ssh -X
 * AlanBell tries an ssh -X with flash
<brianb> this is exactly what i get
<popey> http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/ also fails.. hmm
<popey> this is a super interesting problem brianb :)
<brianb> yeah you could say that i just understand it
<bootinfdsds> yeah, I'm writing the memoirs as we type.
<brianb> dont.. understand it...
<AlanBell> ssh -X with flash works fine for me popey
<AlanBell> firefox --no-remote brings it up on my PC with flash working fine
<brianb> have you tried google chrome?
<popey> not yet
<brianb> well when you do you see the message could not load shockwave flash
<popey> yeah, getting that now
<popey> ok, so I agree it happens :)
<popey> gonna have a poke and find out why
<brianb> cool
<popey> hmm, via video card
<popey> wonder if the flash plugin is crashing due to that or the video driver
<brianb> anyway you can tell?
<popey> more poking at it :)
<popey> fbdevhw
<popey> chrome driver
<brianb> why does it not crash when running windows xp
<brianb> is there anyway to start flash manually?
<AlanBell> unichrome stuff, like an S3 chip popey?
<popey> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. KM400/KN400/P4M800 [S3 UniChrome] (rev 01)
<popey> yes
<popey> one of them
<AlanBell> wow
<AlanBell> what laptop is it?
<popey> 1GB RAM, just a bit less, unity 2d
<brianb> its a badged novatech
<popey> from the past?
<brianb> but from one of the main laptop manufactures
<brianb> yeah
<brianb> most linux distro will work on this laptop
<AlanBell> it probably isn't related to the graphics drivers, but the drivers for that kind of chip are not the best
<AlanBell> http://www.openchrome.org/ is the upstream source of them
<brianb> i have a more modern one which is very picky with various linux distros
<AlanBell> however, I can't see why flash should fail to start due to drivers (fail to do 3d or video, possibly, if the driver claims to do things it can't)
 * popey gets a couple of screenshots
<brianb> well i cant understand why after all its just a browser plug in so i would have thought that it would work
<brianb> try and run a radio player like bbc radio 2
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/via1.png
<AlanBell> if flash isn't starting then it isn't starting
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/via2.png
<brianb> thats what i think its not starting due to some reason
<brianb> these links popey sould i look at them?
<popey> nah, more for AlanBell :)
<brianb> ok
 * popey enables crash reporting and tries to make it crash
<popey> ok, it _is_ crashing
<brianb> so it trying to load but as it loads it crashes is that what you mean
<brianb> and then displays the message could not load shockwave flash
<andylockran-ipad>  Tired...
<andylockran-ipad> Who's about?.
 * popey files a bug
<popey> https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=162994
<popey> brianb, keep an eye on that url
<brianb> so what are your conclusions?
<popey> brianb, not much I can do until someone from the chromium project looks at that
<brianb> is that a google issue?
<popey> or adobe, yes
<popey> I am leaning towards adobe
<popey> however it could be they will say "meh, your video card is too old/crusty/rubbish" or "the video driver is to blame" or "not enough video memory"
<AlanBell> what CPU is it?
<popey> or something related
<popey> amd
<brianb> yes i would concur with you on the latter point
<popey> model name	: mobile AMD Athlon(tm) XP-M 2600+
<popey> so I'm afraid there's not much I can do right now :(
<brianb> its an amd cpu 2.4 GHz
<popey> happy to help again if/when google/chromium people come back
<popey> I'll keep an eye on that bug report
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/968504
<brianb> ok and i keep the ssh server and your account
<AlanBell> It looks like the problem is the closed source software was compiled with SSE2 instructions which are not supported on the AMD Athton XP processor I have
<AlanBell> Bug #968759
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/968759
<popey> good find
<brianb> is that a kernel issue
<popey> nope
<AlanBell> https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=bug&id=3161034
<brianb> flash issue
<AlanBell> it is an Adobe issue
<AlanBell> they compiled it in a way that is incompatible with your CPU
<AlanBell> and they compiled the windows version differently \o/
<brianb> thats good of them
<AlanBell> thanks adobe, love you too
<brianb> so any cpu like the one in my machine will not run adobe flash then
<AlanBell> yup
<popey> nice one AlanBell thanks
<brianb> so can you explain how you came to that conclusion
<AlanBell> so, if you can find the old version you *might* be able to copy over the libflashplayer.so file
<popey> because others have figured it out before us :)
<brianb> right so any way to find a old version
<popey> well, you might get one that works with firefox, but almost certainly not chrome
<popey> http://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/archived-flash-player-versions.html
<brianb> so this was abit like re-inventing the wheel then
<AlanBell> well they are requiring a feature that is in new processors
<brianb> just that it took some work to find the bug
<AlanBell> heh, yes it did
<brianb> guess its a good way to kill off old hardware
<popey> well, it means people with newer hardware benefit
<popey> from having code compiled in an optimal way for their newer hardware
<popey> but people with older kit lose out
<brianb> i think windows 8 does the same sort of thing if the screen resolution is 8 pixels less it will not open up the apps
<popey> nice to get to the bottom of the problem though :)
<brianb> i found that out to my cost
<brianb> oh yes indeed
<AlanBell> hardware support always moves on (we don't support 386,486,pentium, ARM V6 any more) but normally it fails in a less surprising way
<AlanBell> night all o/
<popey> nn
<brianb> if i do find a older version of adobe flash how do i copy over the libflashplayer.so file
<brianb> good night AlanBell many thanks
<brianb> hey popey can you explain how you accessed my machine but i could not see anything
<popey> i was using something called ssh
<brianb> so what did you see on your pc
<popey> its commonly used by developers and admins to control servers which have no graphical interface
<popey> a terminal
<brianb> ok
<popey> but there's a funky feature called "x forwarding"
<popey> which lets me start graphical apps on your machine
<popey> but the output appears on mine
<popey> dead handy
<brianb> but you could open Chrome like if it was on your machine then
<popey> yeah
<popey> but its slow
<popey> very slow :)
<brianb> what in a VM
<popey> no
<popey> running on your machine
<popey> but sending the window description and updates to my machine
<popey> if you look at the screenshot you'll see
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/via1.png
<brianb> so you open up chrome and firefox on my machine
<popey> the blue chrome window is running on your machine but showing the output on mine
<popey> yes
<brianb> ok
<brianb> its very intresting how you could do that
<brianb> \good for fault finding and looking for bugs
<popey> its been possible to do this for ~30+ years :)
<popey> unix :)
<brianb> oh ok
<Daviey> popey: Interesting, all of my Graphics Feature Staus is Unavailable
<brianb> so you logged in to my account using the details
<popey> no, logged into _my_ account
<popey> you created a separate user
<brianb> user account and the password i set up
<popey> i did that because I wanted a) to have a clean user, b) one that wouldn't mess up yours, c) so I dont see your personal data
<brianb> so the ssh key must be very imnportant
<brianb> how was the key generated
<popey> the ssh key was a cryptographic thing to ensure that it was me that was connecting
<brianb> so could i generate my own key?
<popey> you can go to launchpad.net and have some confidence that the owner of that key is me
<popey> you sure can
<brianb> cool
<Daviey> for a nominal fee :)
<popey> it has two parts, a private bit you keep secret and a public bit you put on remote machines
<Daviey> we accept paypal :)
<brianb> so how would i create a key?
<brianb> hey that for 13.04
<brianb> the paypal or paywall
<Daviey> Sorry, i was kidding.. It's free. The console comamnd, ssh-keygen or the graphical tool.. seahorse
<brianb> ok
<brianb> its very powerful i think i leant a little bit tonight from all you guys
<brianb> so many thanks
<brianb> popey i will leave your account on my machine so if you do find a fix and you want to try it let me konw
<popey> ok
<popey> :)
<popey> maybe tomorrow we'll look for an old flash library
<popey> or another night :)
<brianb> again many thank for all your time spent i very much appreciate it
<brianb> yes
<brianb> i have xchat on a MAC so initially was slow and difficult trying things out while typing on my MAC and doing things on the laptop
<brianb> if your around about 9-30 to morrow or another night and want to try an old flash let me know
<brianb> so guess its time to say good night guys
<popey> nn
<brianb> and thanks for all your help and patience
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-28
<xorg_is_a_pain> hey guys... anyone here?
<popey> yes
<xorg_is_a_pain> hey popey... can you spare a minute to help me with Xorg? I followed this guide: http://ubuntuxtreme.com/howto/nvidia-drivers-installer-script/ for my GTX 650, it all went well and rebooted, but now I don't seem to have unity... my windows are just "there" - I have to launch them via ctrl+alt+t
<xorg_is_a_pain> I've got the xorg log... http://paste.ubuntu.com/1393199/
<xorg_is_a_pain> and I've got the newest nvidia-current on the machine
<xorg_is_a_pain> but for some reason it isn't doing jack..
<popey> what is this script madness?
<popey> [    20.712] (EE) NVIDIA: Failed to load the NVIDIA kernel module. Please check your
<popey> that doesn't look too clever
<xorg_is_a_pain> well... I originally tried via "Additional Drivers"
<xorg_is_a_pain> getting the same problem
<xorg_is_a_pain> had to reinstall and try it the script way
<popey> do you have a terminal up?
<xorg_is_a_pain> yeah
<popey> dpkg -l unity
<popey> is it installed?
<popey> i.e. first two characters are "ii"
<xorg_is_a_pain> yeah it's installed
<xorg_is_a_pain> ii  unity          6.10.0-0ubun amd64        Interface designed for efficiency
<xorg_is_a_pain> (compiz crashed when I logged in - I suspect that's where the issue is?)
<popey> probably
<popey> pastebin your ~/.xsession-errors ?
<xorg_is_a_pain> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1393225/
<xorg_is_a_pain> that doesn't look healthy...
<xorg_is_a_pain> :)
<popey> i suspect the nvidia driver didn't build properly
<popey> hence NVIDIA: Failed to load the NVIDIA kernel module
<popey> which is your first problem
<popey> compiz (core) - Info: Unity is not supported by your hardware. Enabling software rendering instead (slow).
<popey> thats as a result of not having the nvidia driver loaded
<xorg_is_a_pain> alright... but it did the same when I tried from Additional Drivers too... strange
<popey> you're running with the VESA driver
<xorg_is_a_pain> it worked in 12.04 - this is a new install
<popey> dpkg -l nvidia-*
<xorg_is_a_pain> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1393230/
<popey> apt-cache policy nvidia-current
<xorg_is_a_pain> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1393234/
<popey> pretty sure my card is a GTX 650
 * popey checks
<xorg_is_a_pain> Asus GEForce GTX 650 I believe
<xorg_is_a_pain> I can drop back to 12.04 without a problem... I just thought I'd bring it up because this is beyond me, and a bug may need filing
<xorg_is_a_pain> there was a comment on that script page from someone else using 12.10 with the same issue
<popey> oh no, mine's a 460
<popey> if you fancy reinstalling 12.10 maybe we can debug from there
<popey> but not right now :D
<xorg_is_a_pain> sure... can do, and aye it's a bit late :P
<popey> maybe pop back tomorrow?
<xorg_is_a_pain> yeah sure... any particualar time?
<popey> before midnight
<xorg_is_a_pain> :P
<popey> but tbh there's plenty of people around who can help tomorrow
<popey> daytime is good?
<xorg_is_a_pain> alright... gonna go back to Windows and watch something on netflix before bed XD I shall see you guys tomorrow
<xorg_is_a_pain> thank you for the help
<popey> ttfn
<popey> np
<troll`> AYO
<troll`> FELLERS
<troll`> UBUNTU IS GR8!
<troll`> IT ROCKS
<directhex> for those who fear the securest of boots: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PyOYsQmetQ
<AlanBell> choo choo
<diplo> Morning
<hoover> morning all
<dwatkins> wotcher
<BigRedS> Hm. I want to file a bug report about docking my laptop, but every time I try it it breaks slightly differently....
<theopensourcerer> This is rather disturbing (but a bit understandable) - I like building PCs... http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/26/intel-kills-off-the-desktop-pcs-go-with-it/
<BigRedS> yeah, I despise building PCs but really think it's something that ought to be possible
<theopensourcerer> At home the three desktops we have (me, wife and kids) are all custom builds by me.
<theopensourcerer> And my home server too.
<theopensourcerer> :-(
<BigRedS> yeah, I completely get the benefits, I just don't have the patience to work out what I want...
<theopensourcerer> But that one is an embedded VIA anyway
<BigRedS> Actually, my last several PCs have been custom-builds, just by somebody else
<theopensourcerer> I reckon this will be the end of Custom PC magazine then too.
<theopensourcerer> End of an era.
<danfish> morning
 * theopensourcerer already asked wifey to cancel his subscription next cycle.
<diplo> AMD theopensourcerer ?
<danfish> the nagios site is down "Server error - server 96.126.126.159 is unreachable at this moment."
<danfish> kinda ironic
<diplo> :P
 * BigRedS has two Nagios instances for that sort of thing
<theopensourcerer> Trouble is their CPUs really suck right now.
<diplo> danfish: Working ok for me
<danfish> diplo: now working for me. Must have been a glitch in the matrix :)
<diplo> :)
<BigRedS> Oh! Nagios.org?
 * BigRedS demands coffee
<Myrtti> meh
<dwatkins> I thoroughly agree, Myrtti.
<BigRedS> 'thoroughly agree' seems a bit antithetical to 'meh'...
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<dwatkins> BigRedS: true, I was agreeing with the sentiment behind the statement, I suppose.
<danfish> xmas soon - what to by the geek in your life?
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/registry/wishlist/29FWHGD2GAECA  # something from their wishlist? :D
<AlanBell> subtle
<popey> :)
<danfish> agreed - wtf is that first book about sharpening pencils? Is the companion book the history of cement?
<AlanBell> someone pointed me at a reddit interview of the pencil sharpening chap the other day
<AlanBell> probably popey
<popey> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2012/05/david-rees-how-to-sharpen-pencils.html
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Anybody here using a trackball?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: I am
<popey> if by trackball you mean trackpoint, yes :)
<bigcalm> Azelphur: finger or thumb operated?
<bigcalm> popey: that's a nipple, so no :)
<popey> \o/ nipples
<bigcalm> :D
<Azelphur> bigcalm: thumb
<bigcalm> Azelphur: have you used both? Do you use it all the time, every day? Do you get any pain from using it?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: I havn't used anything but thumb for a long time, no I don't, I imagine I would do from a mouse considering the amount of time I spend using it :
<bigcalm> Azelphur: that's all good to know, thanks :)
<bigcalm> Azelphur: I have bad RSI from years of mouse usage, so now I'm looking for an alternative
<bigcalm> Azelphur: just trying to work out if I should get a thumb or fingers operated one
<Azelphur> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/trackballs/wireless-trackball-m570
<Azelphur> that's what I have
 * theopensourcerer has just taken delivery of some new computer h/w :-) Lappy, monitors, hub, cables...
<bigcalm> Yeah, been looking at the M570
<bigcalm> theopensourcerer: for your new lacky?
<AlanBell> theopensourcerer: woot
<Azelphur> I also have one of these http://www.dansdata.com/images/ltcontrollers/tmw440.jpg if you want it I'll do it for Â£5 + pnp :p
<Azelphur> it's the predecessor to the M570
<bigcalm> Azelphur: I'll keep that in mind, ta :)
<Azelphur> :)
<bigcalm> Though I'm used to having extra buttons for navigation
<BigRedS> bigcalm: I've been using a thumb-operated trackball for about ten years now
<BigRedS> with no known issues
<MooDoo> davmor2: hello chap
<theopensourcerer> Lappy is rather nice... And sans Windows Tax \o/
<theopensourcerer> https://plus.google.com/u/0/104060033182234025482/posts/647hTvNJtsp
<einonm> theopensourcerer: cool, what's the plastic case on it like?
<theopensourcerer> It isn't plastic.
<theopensourcerer> It's metal
<theopensourcerer> Feels good and sturdy. Thin too.
<einonm> even better.
<AlanBell> no secure boot efi stuff presumeably
<theopensourcerer> Dunno - gone back to work now.
<theopensourcerer> Will take it home tonight and plug a UDB stick in
<theopensourcerer> or USB even
<JamesTait> theopensourcerer, what's the model number? I'm pre-emptively looking at laptops ready for when I turn this thing in.
<bigcalm> BigRedS: that's another plus for thumbs :)
<JamesTait> And I'm all for supporting companies who sell OS-free hardware.
<theopensourcerer> JamesTait: Think it was this one to which we added another 4G of RAM http://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/range/novatechnfinityn1402.html
<JamesTait> theopensourcerer, excellent, thanks! I'll take a look and add it to the shortlist!
<theopensourcerer> The 4 to 8G RAM upgrade cost Â£9.60
<JamesTait> Wow, Â£90 extra for Windows 7!
<JamesTait> Windows 7 Home as well.
<theopensourcerer> Windows is between Â£91 and Â£163 depending on version
<theopensourcerer> It came with a carry case (rucksack)
<JamesTait> I'm so completely out of touch with Windows these days.
<theopensourcerer> Me too.
<AlanBell> wish all computers asked for an operating system on first boot
<JamesTait> +1
<JamesTait> Although I can imagine my dad being incredibly annoyed if they did.
<theopensourcerer> JamesTait: Some piccies of the "unboxing" https://plus.google.com/u/0/104060033182234025482/posts/B1fLCcVCfsJ
<JamesTait> Ooh, that case does look nice.
<JamesTait> And it's nice and thin too.
<JamesTait> If I had one of those, I might not nearly give myself a hernia every time I travelled with my computer.
<BigRedS> wot no nipple?
<dwatkins> My laptop is 13", and I much prefer taking the netbook instead as it`s a lot smaller.
<popey> heh
<popey> thats now my benchmark for a laptop, does it have a touchpoint nipple
<popey> if not, -> bin
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> hello bigcalm
<diplo> You're one of the only people I know that likes the touchpoint nipple popey
<bigcalm> I think I'd like a nipple if I had one
<diplo> Guy next to me has never used his, nor anyone else in the office.. they actually get more annoyed with it being there
<bigcalm> You can remove it (ymmv)
<popey> oddballs
<popey> you can buy an external keyboard with one in :)
<popey> (see my wishlist) :D
<popey> also http://www.pckeyboard.com/
<BigRedS> it makes it way easier to pick laptops
<BigRedS> when I was looking I only had to pick between about three
<BigRedS> and I think two of them were Lenovo
<popey> who else does them?
<BigRedS> Dell used to do them on their Latitudes, and HP did a longer time ago
<BigRedS> I don't think either do any more
<dwatkins> I rarely open my laptop ;) it sits on my desk at work closed and connected to a monitor, mouse and keyboard.
<bigcalm> Toshiba used to
<BigRedS> Hm. Dell's website seems too broken to tell me if they still do
<mgdm> My first laptop was a Toshiba, it only had the nipple, so that's how I got used to them
<mgdm> prefer it above anyting else apart from maybe a Mac trackpad with all the gestures
<popey> yeah
<AlanBell> are there any generic alternatives to the apple magic touchpad?
<popey> yes
<davmor2> AlanBell: well there might of been till apple sued them all for making a touchpad :D
<popey> dunno if they're multitouch tho
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cirque-Easy-Cat-Glidepoint-Touchpad/dp/B000V5IFQA
<AlanBell> that looks a bit rubbish
<AlanBell> laptop touchpad on a wire
<mgdm> I have a magic trackpad, but I took it to work for now
<mgdm> it is very nice, and sort-of works with Ubuntu, but the weighting in the gesture config needs some work
<AlanBell> http://www.ebuyer.com/282973-logitech-wireless-touchpad-910-002442 looks a bit more like it
<AlanBell> schwuk: can you stop the away script please
<directhex> moo
<popey> directhex, you may also want to do a video showing what happens with secure boot on and booting a live cd
<popey> also, moo
<directhex> popey, a bit more awkward, no CD drive on the x230 :D
<directhex> i could use the T530 for that tho
<dwatkins> strange, I thought I'd gotten irssi to ignore nickspam
<popey> oh, or usb, sorry
<directhex> i *do* have a USB CD drive
<directhex> well, dvd burner
<directhex> but the T530 might be easier
<davmor2> popey: do you have ATI on any of your quantal boxes and did the binary driver ever install and display unity?
<popey> no
<popey> I only answered one of your questions, I do not feel it necessary to continue with the questioning :)
<BigRedS> Which one's quantal? My home PC is 12.10 and I'm going to need to install a binary driver to get steam working on it
<BigRedS> ah, 12.10 I guess. I know the alphabet, honest!
<popey> !quantal
<popey> Time passes..
<Laney> no bot
<popey> AlanBell, we're missing a bot here
<Daviey> and mootbot is stuffed in #ubuntu-meeting
<dogmatic69> memory usage 6.5GB -> sudo killall -9 chrome -> 1.2GB :/
<BigRedS> I used to graph firefox memory usage, but that just scared me
<popey> anyone here live in Leeds?
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: I think they have some code that goes, while(memory) { fillit(); }
<BigRedS> haha
<popey> same happens with roads and kitchen bins
<popey> tis human nature
<BigRedS> moving to leeds?
<BigRedS> :)
<popey> no, come dine with me are looking for people in various places including leeds
<popey> https://www.facebook.com/comedinewithme/posts/10151282375899204
<BigRedS> ahhh
<AlanBell> popey: Daviey: I am very aware of this . . .
<BigRedS> popey: a while ago you asked for recommendations for people learning vi, what did you settle on, and was it vi or vim?
<popey> BigRedS, vimtutor
<popey> and a printed cheatsheet
<n1md4> BigRedS: tsk tsk, you should have asked me :P
<n1md4> vi
<n1md4> vi
<n1md4> vi
<n1md4> :P
<BigRedS> popey: ta!
<popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/13xpq4/game_performance_improvement_for_ubuntu_available/
<czajkowski> https://fosdem.org/2013/news/2012-11-28-extended-deadlines/ may be of interest to some
<balor> czajkowski, Is your twitter account haxor3d?
<czajkowski> no.
<czajkowski> why ?
<balor> czajkowski, ah, just all the debit card stuff seemed strange
<czajkowski> balor: yeah read the last one it's about security
<czajkowski> people actually tweet their CC which has their name long number and exp date
<balor> czajkowski, AH
<balor> strange people
<BigRedS> there used to be a robot that retweeted CC info
<directhex> wiiu preordered
<gord> forgot the wiiu wasn't out here yet
<directhex> friday here.
<BigRedS> I want my grub to automatically boot the first option out of that 'advanced options' submenu. Is that an easy thing to make it do?
<BigRedS> oh, it's documented!
<mungojerry> gord , did you go to hyper japan?
<mungojerry> http://www.hyperjapan.co.uk/whats-on/foodanddrink/food-zone.html
<gord> nope
<gord> all looks so good
<gord> i came back with half a suit case full of treats from korea, lots of tasty pocky ripoffs
<mungojerry> this was in earls court though ...bit closer :D
<bootinfdsds> Just posted a present to AlanBell :)
<Myrtti> oh my, how far ahead do they record EggHeads...
<bootinfdsds> dunno.. i thought that show was redundant by now.
<jacobw> evening
<popey> heh, got a phone call from a friend asking what tablet to buy for her husband
<Azelphur> when in doubt nexus 7
<Azelphur> :p
 * dw4tkins agrees with Azelphur 
 * brobostigon also agres.
<directhex> depends on budget, and odd requirements. for the average grunt on the street, any ipad is best, assuming they can afford the apple tax
<directhex> nexus 7 is a cheap alternative which is in the same ball park for usability, though. see also kindle fire hd
<mgdm> we have a Fire HD and a 7 at work
<mgdm> IIRC the screen on the 7 is higher resolution, despite the Fire being physically bigger
<dw4tkins> I like the mini size of the Nexus, not sure how it compares to the iPad mini
<dw4tkins> s/Nexus/Nexus 7/
<mgdm> I played with an iPad mini yesterday, briefly
<mgdm> belongs to our designer chap who works one week a month
<mgdm> I was mildly surprised to discover it hasn't got a Retina display
<Azelphur> Anyone recommend a nice current account with some nice perks / introductory offers? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno about perks but we've been pretty happy with First Direct (HSBC) since it started...
<Azelphur> hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> If I was looking now I think I would have Virgin on my list to check out.
 * AlanBell is also happy with first direct
<AlanBell> First Direct was formed on 1 October 1989
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sounds about right. I was 24.
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: how is the laptop?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It boots from a stick
<TheOpenSourcerer> Other than that I haven't done much.
<AlanBell> ok, generally nice bit of kit?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's very nicely built. Feels solid and stursy yeah.
<TheOpenSourcerer> sturdy
<Azelphur> my parents had lots of problems with my local hsbc branch, I hear good things about hsbc often, but our local branch is a bit fail I think
<AlanBell> first direct really isn't much to do with HSBC branches
<AlanBell> all telephone and internet based
<TheOpenSourcerer> With First Direct you really don't need to use a branch. Everything by Internet/phone
<Azelphur> that's fun
<TheOpenSourcerer> But if you need to pay in a cheque for example - then you can use HSBC branches
<AlanBell> branches are just for depositing cheques from strange customers
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> first direct are offering Â£100 for when I switch, but then they'd prolly want me to close my santander too
<TheOpenSourcerer> Astronomers find biggest black hole, 17 BILLION times the size of Sun
<Azelphur> which from experience is rather difficult :p
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/28/biggest_black_hole/
<AlanBell> gosh, don't drop things in that
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think it would be hard not too.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-29
<jacobw2> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> nice full moon this morning
<hoover> morning all
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> gosh it's cold
<diplo> Morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello davmor2 me ol' mucka
<davmor2> MooDoo: why aye man
<davmor2> MooDoo: How be ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: aye not too bad....
<s-fox> hi
<davmor2> reboot time
<MooDoo> s-fox: hully
<MooDoo> omg my typing is shit :S
<s-fox> hully to you too MooDoo
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<s-fox> how are you MooDoo  ?
<s-fox> hi jacobw2
<s-fox> and JamesTait
<s-fox> ;)
<JamesTait> s-fox, o/
<MooDoo> s-fox: I'm ok thank you
<davmor2> JamesTait: Fancy Meeting you here :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, fancy!
<JamesTait> Seems like there are a few of us in the Midlands now, maybe we should set up a new office! :-P
<MooDoo> JamesTait: where are you?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, Derby.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: not that far then
<JamesTait> MooDoo, and you?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: nottingham :D
<JamesTait> MooDoo, not far indeed. :)
<MooDoo> JamesTait: ubuntu hour at the trip ;)
<JamesTait> I think I knew that somehow.
<MooDoo> I'm sure it's been discussed many a time lol
<JamesTait> MooDoo, do I have you on Google+?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: yeah just search for Paul Mellors
<JamesTait> Right, that's where I know you from then. :-P
 * s-fox looks on map for derby....
<MooDoo> JamesTait: i've just added you to a circle so you should see me
<JamesTait> My ircnick<->realname converter is playing up.
<JamesTait> I blame old age.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: you're not that old are you?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, depends who you ask. According to my kids I'm ancient. :-P
<MooDoo> JamesTait: snap!
<s-fox> ah, west of nottingham.  my geography is rubbish
<JamesTait> s-fox, where are you?
<s-fox> here
<s-fox> :D
<MooDoo> JamesTait: It's when I hit 40 last year they told me this lol
<JamesTait> Didn't we have a map of this somewhere?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, oh you *are* ancient then! :-P  I'm only 36.
<MooDoo> http://ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/
<JamesTait> Yes, MooDoo, that one. :)
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> oh yeah i noticed there is no planet ubuntu-uk any more....
<s-fox> my pin has gone missing :/
<s-fox> *terrible news*
<MooDoo> anyone know why ubuntu-uk has stopped feeding, too much work?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, I think it was discussed at a recent LoCo meeting.
<MooDoo> oh right, that's a shame.  enjoyed reading that.
<s-fox> hmm, failed to download repo info for a couple of ppa stops software updater
<s-fox> *that sucks*
<daftykins> 0o
<s-fox> JamesTait,  I'm in the middle between Leicester and Coventry
<MooDoo> JamesTait: yeah was proposed on the 14th nov, that's a shame really
<JamesTait> MooDoo, I think there was quite a lot of work involved in keeping everything we do running, and not enough volunteers to help do it.
<bigcalm_laptop> Morning peeps
<MooDoo> JamesTait: hmmm I think we need a volunteer page, i'd be up for maintaining the planet feed....I used to read that lol
<daftykins> hey
<s-fox> good morning bigcalm_laptop
<s-fox> i never really understood why uk has a feed - unless it was for UK events. Ubuntu related news is news regardless of location
<MooDoo> It was nice to see what the UK community was up to in their daily lifes....I liked reading it.
<s-fox> MooDoo,  was it any content or ubuntu specific ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: anything if i remember rightly it was an insight into the lifes and minds of the ububuntu uk community.
<JamesTait> MooDoo, yeah, it didn't have to be Ubuntu-specific.
<s-fox> an insight into my mind...scary thought. lol
<s-fox> MooDoo,  how goes the photography ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: it goes lol
<daftykins> laughing photography, curious
<s-fox> i've only taken one picture all month properly MooDoo
<MooDoo> s-fox: I've taken loads
<s-fox> :)
<MooDoo> daftykins: I take a photo, look at the screen and laugh ;)
<s-fox> quality over quantity ;)
<MooDoo> s-fox: keep telling yourself that ;)
<s-fox> i do
<s-fox> anyway, you've seen my work and how picky i am hehe
<MooDoo> s-fox: I did a gimp talk at my local camera club a few weeks ago, that went down well
<s-fox> cool
<s-fox> MooDoo,  i am looking forward to the winter. i am going to try and get some ice / frost shots
<MooDoo> s-fox: that'll look good
<s-fox> maybe some spiderwebs
<MooDoo> yeah i got a few of them at the weekend, didn't come out all that well though
<s-fox> :/
<MooDoo> s-fox: problem is i'm to dependant on photoshop and lightroom at the moment lol
<s-fox> nothing wrong with photoshop
<s-fox> my editor of choice is that
<MooDoo> s-fox: a bit expensive atÂ£17 a month, don't think i'll be renewing at the end of the year
<s-fox> ahh, i made the investment of buying cs5 master collection MooDoo
<gord> <3 lightroom
 * JamesTait wonders if he should consider this photo software thing instead of just posting snapshots from hsi phone.
<JamesTait> s/hsi/his
<DJones> \o/ 2nd screen plugged in and working with no issues
<daftykins> DJones: i should hope so given the year we're in :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: it's lovely isn't it....
<s-fox> yep
<MooDoo> s-fox: i use cs6 at the moment, just shame the laptop isn't up to all the cool features lo.l
<s-fox> lol :)
<s-fox> MooDoo,  i tend to get every other version
<DJones> daftykins: Yeah, but this is on old hardware, I thought it might have choked
<MooDoo> s-fox: I think I got this one as it's the first one to do a subscription model
<daftykins> how old?
<gord> <3 lightroom even more with multiple monitors
<DJones> daftykins: Not sure on the age, but the graphics card is a Geforce FX5200
<daftykins> heh
<DJones> Looking at release dates, probably near 10 years old
<daftykins> is that down to what drivers you have available that it might not have worked then?
<DJones> In a way, I thought with the age, some of the support may have been dropped, when I looked at upgrading to 12.10 I was warned that the graphics card may not be supported
<daftykins> ah-har
<DJones> Just looking for a gwibber replacement that has twitter, identi.ca and facebook capeabilities
<DJones> Ah well, that plan seems dead, looks like its a facebook notification search instead
<s-fox> isn't social media integrated into the unity menu yet?
<MooDoo> i stopped using gwibber years ago, I did move to tweetdeck, don't think that has identi.ca support though
<s-fox> afaik tweetdeck only supports twitter, linkedin facebook foursquare and myspace
<s-fox> oh it did do buzz at one point oo
<s-fox> too
<s-fox> but yeah
<bigcalm_laptop> Down side to working in a cafe: one has to be careful of links visited
<MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: microsoft.com isnt that bad ;)
<s-fox> no worse than any other website
<bigcalm_laptop> :P
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,,
<bashrc> hi
<brobostigon> hi bashrc
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon sorry miles away there
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: What are you doing on the apple site?
<bigcalm_laptop> *hiss*
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: you're hissing at it?
<bokjhv> BTW My local Tesco has no 70p-a-box frosted shredded wheat left. I bought them all.. :)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> why so cheap?
<bokjhv> Dunno .. shredded wheat King decree'd it.
<bokjhv> Could show you receipt , if you like ?
<bokjhv> I dont think I will actually, too much cables involved.
<bokjhv> I was on #freegamer channel for 5 hours last night. Awesome.
<daftykins> never heard of it
<bokjhv> In fact I just feel awesome today.. me an awesome are one !
<bokjhv> **and
<Guest34261> Could anyone recommend me an Ubuntu-compatible 'ultrabook'. Ideally one with a nice high res 1080p screen? My main worry is graphics card support, since my present laptop has lots of problems with the Nvidia proprietary drivers. Thanks.
<popey> which ultrabooks have 1080p screens?
<popey> I thought most were 1366x768 or thereabouts
<Guest34261> That's kinda the problem. I don't actually care about the screen dimensions too much, just want something thin, lightweight and without extras like a DVD drive.
<Guest34261> Perhaps ultra book was the wrong term
<gord> the new thinkpad yoga's look great
<popey> "laptop" :)
<Guest34261> Yup
<gord> like really really great, if i had more in the kitty i'd grab one up
<Guest34261> Laptop would have been a better start :-)
<popey> so I'd use the ebuyer selector thing
<Guest34261> I'll Google the yoga. Thanks
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/store/Computer/cat/Laptops
<popey> and filter using the options on the left
<Guest34261> Ah, thanks, that looks useful.
<Guest34261> I'm on a GPRS connection at the moment, but will take a look at those suggestions as soon as I get better signal. Cheers
<MooDoo> hello again all
<bigcalm_laptop> Morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
<bigcalm_laptop> This cafe is getting too busy for my liking
<popey> interesting piece on radio 4 about people putting up QR codes which link to apps which contain malware
<popey> even sticking qr codes over the top of legitimate ones on posters
<popey> to capture credit card details
<popey> fun :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Oh, so that's what QR codes are useful for
<popey> :)
<popey> exactly what I thought
<popey> "Oh, someone found a use for them!"
<popey> http://www.wired.com/beyond_the_beyond/2012/01/qr-code-malware-arrives/
<dwatkins> Qirus
<MooDoo> davmor2: @_
<czajkowski> ah that's annoying I love QR codes :(
<bigcalm_laptop> !ping
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: Pong!
<bigcalm_laptop> Ta
<bigcalm_laptop> We lack a bot
<MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: sounds like a faith no more song, or is that we care a lot ;)
<AlanBell> what do people use for decoding QR codes?
<AlanBell> I used to have a rather geeky android app for doing them, but I don't think that is something "real people" would use
<popey> i use RL on iOS
<popey> "Red Laser"
<popey> it's more for scanning barcodes on products to get online prices
<popey> I do this in shops to make sure I'm not getting ripped off
<AlanBell> wonder how many people know how to use a QR code at all
<AlanBell> right now, I am not one of them
<kvarley> How can I list the permissions in terminal. I am looking for the 777, 775, 665 format.
<jacobw2> kvarley: chmod 777 <file>
<popey> list, not change
<jacobw2> oh
<popey> i dont think you can with ls, at least the man page doesn't say so
<popey> but it's quite easy :)
<popey> rwx
<popey> 421
<kvarley> Or does anybody know the "default" permission code?
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ touch foo
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ ls -l foo
<popey> -rw-rw-r-- 1 alan alan 0 Nov 29 14:16 foo
<popey> that :)
<popey> 664
<kvarley> popey: ok, thanks :)
<popey> but thats for files in your home
<popey> different for files in other places, and root owned files
<dwatkins> and gives group writeable access (although nowadays, each user account has its own group)
<kvarley> popey: What number does drwxrwxr-x equate to?
<dwatkins> it's different for directories
<popey> 775
<kvarley> popey: Ok, thanks
<popey> rwx = 7, rwx = 7, r-x = 5
<dwatkins> well, different in that there's also the concept of traversing a directory to get to those below it
<popey> 4+x+1, 4+2+1, 4+1
<jacobw2> in the 3 digit form, the first number is owner, the second is group, ane third is others (or 'world')
<jacobw2> +4 for read, +2 for write, and +1 for execute, it's from ascending binary numbers for execute, write and read
<jacobw2> as popey said
<Danawar> i updated to 12.04 and my group wwwdata or www-data has gone missing should i recreate this or was it removed for some reason O.o
<popey> http://www.dell.com/us/soho/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx
<BigRedS> I had a thought the other day, for a website you can visit and it grabs your browser, flash, java, whatever version number and lists all the known vulnerabilities
<BigRedS> somebody must've made this already, anyone know where it is?
<gord> its called your next million dollar idea!
<BigRedS> Aw man, that's another domain to buy and never use
<popey> BigRedS, nice idea, then get it to charge you money to actually tell you what the vulnerabilities are
<popey> whilst you poke their system via those vulnerabilities you found
<popey> http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1211296-SU-1211294SU52
<popey> that looks good
<popey> phoronix tests though so *shrug* :)
<bigcalm_laptop> davmor2: splitter!
 * davmor2 splits bigcalm_laptop's screen from his keyboard
<bigcalm_laptop> Spiffy
<theopensourcerer> Project Sputnik ships: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/dell-releases-powerful-well-supported-linux-ultrabook/
<MartijnVdS> .. in the us
<theopensourcerer> :-P
<MartijnVdS> ironically
<BigRedS> aha
<BigRedS> haha, even
<theopensourcerer> I am rather fed up. Had a day of chasing bugs and not getting very far... Going for a beer. ttfn
<MartijnVdS> \o
<daubers> ~
<daubers> sorry
<daubers> kitten attack
<Laney> that is a sorry attack indeed
<Laney> do better next time, kitten
<daubers> She's starting to lern that when she stands on the laptop, she get's put on the floor again
<mgdm> it keeps the feet off the laptop else it gets the hose again
<daubers> Quite hard to put her on the floor when she's so cute
<ahayzen> Hi, evolution-calendar-factory is using 100% CPU and has no way of stopping it (killall doesn't work), it also randomly prompts that it has crashed at boot, any ideas what is going on? Thanks
<Azelphur> Anyone got a chromebook cr-48? Is it any good?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I have the new ARM CHromebook
<Azelphur> cool
<MartijnVdS> and it's cool :)
<MartijnVdS> haven't tried to run anything but chromeos on it though
<Azelphur> hehe
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<dogmatic69> sup bigcalm
<bigcalm> Ale!
 * bigcalm quaffs
<bigcalm> How do, dogmatic69?
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Fnar fnar
<bigcalm> What have I been missing out on recently?
<bigcalm> That much?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: all good. Getting my cart plugin finished up
<bigcalm> Busy lad
<bigcalm> I've been tempting suicide with unit testing
<dogmatic69> Tired of having to mess about with half decent shopping carts.
<dogmatic69> oh, I got my project 100% passing yesterday. Almost 2k tests.
<dogmatic69> This is a problem though... 'cat core.phpcs.txt | grep \| | wc -l' -> 8175
<bigcalm> phpunit keeps telling me that it's core dumping after doing --coverage. Not that I've seen any core dumps though. Well done on 100% :)
<dogmatic69> 8k 'coding standards' issues :/
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> That's ps0?
<dogmatic69> things like if() should be if ()
<dogmatic69> ye
<bigcalm> Fun
<dogmatic69> well its using cakes cs config.
<dogmatic69> Trying to make it match cake as close as possible.
<bigcalm> Yeah, it's difficult when the framework doesn't want to be standards compliant
<dogmatic69> cake is pretty good. They are doing ps* without the spaces afaik.
<bigcalm> I can't remember what Symfony decided upon
<bigcalm> I'm having a hateful time with phpdoc2
<dogmatic69> ah, roadmap says 3.x finish psr0, implement psr1
<dogmatic69> oh ye?
<dogmatic69> I used it here api.infinitas-cms.org
<dogmatic69> might look at something else. The docs are quite sparse for phpdoc... pretty ironic.
<bigcalm> Yeah, I found that as well
<bigcalm> I think my boss wants us to stick with phpdoc because it's using symfony2 now
<dogmatic69> building a doc gen in cake has crossed my mind.
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I wonder if my trackball will come early and let me play with it tomorrow
<bootinfdsds> no-one about !
<directhex> yeah, it's dead tonight
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-30
<shauno>  well, it is midnight
<diplo> Morning
<popey> yo
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> hmmm
<popey> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<popey> yay
<directhex> !peng
<pndemc> I installed Zpanel on my ubuntu server, and now I can't launch my game servers, it keeps telling me "No such file or directory" when it gets to either ./steam or ./srcds_run. Does anyone know what could be causing this?
<MooDoo> hello all
<kvarley> Why when setting up an SSL certificate for my domain do I need to specify a subdomain as well?
<kvarley> MooDoo: Hi
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> kvarley: because the SSL is normally tied to the subdomain and the domain.
<kvarley> MooDoo: Ah ok, I did it. I was just wondering :)
<MooDoo> kvarley: sweet :D
<SuperMatt> woo, finally part of the steam linux beta
<popey> :)
<popey> SS3 is fun
<SuperMatt> indeed it is
<SuperMatt> I'd been playing it witgh non-beta status
<SuperMatt> but I'm glad now to officially be part of it
<SuperMatt> now to submit my plethora of bugs
<czajkowski> Morning folks!
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :-D
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<ikonia> Any of you guys got a recommendation for a "dellwarehouse.com" type of site for Lenovo gear
<ikonia> I need to pickup a very speicifc laptop make/model from lenvo for a gift and I'm shopping around for good places to buy
 * popey pokes ikonia with a pm
<directhex> wiiu!
<gord> someone pointed out to me the other day that nintendo are going to have a really hard time with wiiu game sequels... new Super Mario Bros U2: Bono world
<popey> the wii mini is an odd device
<popey> are there lots of people who clamour for a wii without online capability?
<popey> if it were ~40$ cheaper I can imagine it flying off the shelves for use in bedrooms, spare rooms etc
<gord> i think its for the xmas family market not for the people who want to still be playing it in febuary market
<bigcalm> Not a good start to the day: can't mount my samba shares
<christel> popey: get yourself a babysitter tomorrow night and bring clare to hindhead and attend the freenode christmas do! people have become all sick and pulled out so i am left with several meals going spare and this upsets me!
<czajkowski> christel: you back in the UK
<christel> yes maam!
<christel> you can come tomorrow too!
<christel> :P
<MooDoo> christel: create ubuntu-uk doggy bags ;)
<christel> haha
 * czajkowski will be living in hampshire as of 6pm today 
<czajkowski> I am still in two minds about this
<christel> czajkowski: PERFECT! then you MUST come
<MooDoo> czajkowski: moved house?
<christel> it can double as the WELCOME BAKC czajkowski PARTY
<czajkowski> might try as other half wont be around
<christel> yay :D
<czajkowski> christel: can you mail with location so I can figure out directions
<christel> yesss
<czajkowski> I live [...]close to the train station :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: yup
<czajkowski> ah I can the #19 bus directly there
<christel> ooh :D
<christel> there is a busstop outside my house i think
<christel> well, on the main road (i am set back a bit from the main road)
<czajkowski> well plugged in the name of the area no idea if its right
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: 'Ow am ya
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: hellooooooo
<mungojerry> went to london devops meeting yesterday, was v good
<directhex> popey, the wii mini has bizarre timing too. are there really that many houses that wanted a wii but don't have one due to size?
<directhex> it's not as if the sensor bar's shrunk
<MooDoo> hello davmor2 yes i'm gine, christel was just inviting the planet to a christmas party ;) lol
<dwatkins> directhex: perhaps it's cheaper too
<directhex> dwatkins, a little, but the existing wii is already heavily discounted
<directhex> like, under a hundred quid
<directhex> the price dropped when they removed gamecube support
<dwatkins> yeah, oh my, a Lego Wii controller...
<popey> they removed gc support?
<popey> was that done in a hardware rev?
<dwatkins> I guess Dolphin must work well enough as an emulator... ;)
<bigcalm> Workstation reboot and the samba shares connect this time. Grr
<directhex> popey, removed in the first wii revision without a stand
<directhex> i think that was used in mario & sonic at the olympic games bundles
<bigcalm> Cupcake for breakfast - living the life
<dwatkins> dreaming the rainbow
<davmor2> dwatkins: oh you have a packet of skittles then
<dwatkins> davmor2: sadly not, they have too much sugar for my liking
<MooDoo> davmor2: sugar my butt, it's too much rainbow for you to handle ;)
<MooDoo> and that was meant for dwatkins lol
<dwatkins> MooDoo: haha, if only
<bootinfdsds> anybody about ?
<bashrc> no
<bootinfdsds> :(
<bootinfdsds> AlanBell, Did you get some coins from the IoM today ?
<AlanBell> ooh, dunno, not been home yet :)
<AlanBell> but thanks!
<bootinfdsds> Oh Ok .. well tell me when you do, thank-you.
<bootinfdsds> AlanBell,  The IoMLUG has beemn called off till next year, TBHonest Dan never really gave it a chance and so I have formed a G-LUG group of a couple of people. We're mostly online but were looking to-do more in the new year.
<bootinfdsds> Apart from the iom.lug.org.uk being a contradiction in terms, I feel as though the community could be better versed with a GLUG.im for serving the Manx community.
<bashrc> Is the isle of man embracing linux?
<popey> does the G in G-LUG mean GNU perchance bootinfdsds ?
<davmor2> popey: Nope it stands for Gangnam
<MartijnVdS> Gangnam-LUG?
<brobostigon> now that, would be so sad.
<AlanBell> oppa linux style
<DJones> Argh, dual screen set up nicely & all working yesterday, now just have to fix the pebkac that keeps leaving me in the wrong window on the wrong screen
<SuperMatt> are programs loading on the wrong screen?
<DJones> NO, programs are on the right screen, its just the user thats forgetting which screen/window/app is active
<SuperMatt> fair enough
<SuperMatt> I tend to set mine up with "working" apps on the left hand screen, and my browser and email client sit on the right
<DJones> I do the opposite, personal apps (polly, thunderbird, pidgin, irssi) on the left screen, work/business apps, Libreoffice etc on the right, and then use the left screen for browsing if I need to research something
<DJones> For some reason, I look at the left screen more often :)
<SuperMatt> I couldn't begin to understandn why
<gord> might be a bit sacrilegious to say here, but windows 8 is *really* nice on multi-monitor. you can basically turn one monitor into a really nice big tablet and the other stays as a "regular" ui
<czajkowski> anyone know how one contacts amazon
<czajkowski> I have been shipped someones kiddie xmas gifts
<czajkowski> about 4 board games
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: there's a "return items" thing in the box with them
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/css/returns/homepage.html/ref=hy_f_4
<gord> is it not someone near to you that you can just pop round to their house?
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: nope
<czajkowski> gord: nope it's a french order
<czajkowski> all the games are in french
<gord> ha
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: they also have a "Contact us" -> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/contact-us/ref=hp_ss_comp_cu?ie=UTF8&nodeId=471044 for me
<gord> that is quite lost
<popey> heh, we got wrong stuff one year
<popey> loads of books I would have ordered anyway
<czajkowski> whoo have them calling me now
<czajkowski> popey: aye just dont want someone missing their kids presents
<czajkowski> looks nice stuff and cost them a cuple of hundred euros
<czajkowski> as I can see that receipt
<czajkowski> ok seems I can keep the stuff or donate to charity
<czajkowski> as there is no returns label n the box
<czajkowski> so they can't generate a label for me as I cant give them a reference number
<czajkowski> popey: would therealpopey like them for her school class they are all in french ?
<gord> every time i call amazon up about, well, anything, they just tell me to keep it and they'll send another. i love amazon
<gord> apart from the kindle that i smashed, but they still just replaced it for free with no quibbles
<popey> czajkowski, ooh! that'd be lovely, that do french.. what are they? books?
<czajkowski> popey: board games
<popey> oh sweet, yeah, if you don't want them I'm sure the school would love them, thanks
<czajkowski> grand
<czajkowski> done
<czajkowski> and sorted
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> one less thing to worry about
<czajkowski> just dont like things going to waste and unlike jon I don't horde things up for years!
<czajkowski> he's rather special you know
<popey> :)
<popey> http://en.community.dell.com/dell-blogs/direct2dell/b/direct2dell/archive/2012/11/30/sputnik-pricing-update.aspx
<popey> \o/
<SuperMatt> popey: that's wonderful news
<SuperMatt> now my question. In Fedora 18, tty1 is the gui, but it's tty7 on ubuntu. Is there a reason why it's still tty7?
<popey> what's the rationale for changing it?
<shauno> I'd assume some combination of entrenched inertia, and "if it ain't broke"
<gord> if they changed it there would be a lot of "omg my computer is broken i can't get back to my desktop" support issues
<SuperMatt> well, I just would have thought people would expect the main place for doing things would exist a 1, not 7
<BigRedS> I think once you've got the hang of TTYs you pretty quickly remember the guis on 7
<BigRedS> actually, I don't. I always go for 8 first...
<shauno> on the other hand, I'd expect anyone who's actually dropping down to a tty to know what/why
<cocoa117> what's the best way to execute a command without user interaction, e.g. create folder mkdir /srv/abc/abc
<cocoa117> i mean through SSH
<popey> cocoa117, nohup?
<cocoa117> popey, ssh test@test..., then what
<popey> oh, you want to run a command on a remote box?
<popey> ssh user@host -e '/bin/bash -c <command>'
<cocoa117> popey, yes, all i need was copy file to a server using SCP, but then there are sometimes the folder i want to copy to might not exist yet
<popey> I'd use rsync :)
<popey> it will create the folders
<cocoa117> popey, ennn, probably a good idea, never cross my mind, :)
<cocoa117> rsync with ssh, :), i try that
<cocoa117> popey, is there a parameter i need to use with rsync to make sure it create folder if it doesn't exist on the server side?
<popey> cocoa117, look at -R in the man page.. may help
<dwatkins> wouldn't that be '-r'? I use that and rsync creates directories where needed.
<popey> gord, you still use your x220 much or have you moved on?
<cocoa117> popey, en, rsync don't really solve my issue here, the initial login folder need to exist first
<directhex> wiiiiiiii!
<MartijnVdS> Woo! http://qi.com/the-qi-advent-calendar
<gord> popey, yeah i still use it all the time, i tried to replace it with a tablet, but that didn't go well, so i'm still using it
<popey> gord, is yours the i7?
<gord> i3
<popey> ah
<gord> my x220 purchase was based mostly on "oh crap my laptop just died and there is a sprint just around the corner, what is the cheapest but nice machine i can get"
<jacobw2> evening
<brobostigon> evening jacobw2
<directhex> so, only directhex has a launch-day wii u?
<jacobw2> a what now?
<directhex> that's a yes, then
<davmor2_> directhex: has a wii on launch-day, Man you need to contain your excitement better
<andrews> hi all - can anyone help me?  I have an external usb Samsung S2 harddrive which I am trying to get working in Linux so I can wipe it (its come from a windows NTFS system) but Ubuntu wont let me do anything with it - I can see it in the "computer" section but cant actually do anything with it.  Can anyone tell me in laymans terms how to get it working?
<directhex> andrews, click the dash button, and type "part" - with luck you should have gparted partition editor installed
<directhex> andrews, you can use this to reformat any partitions on the drive using the filesystem of your choice
<andrews> thanks for this, though sorry for sounding like a plonker, whats the dash button?
<MartijnVdS> andrews: the one in the top left
<MartijnVdS> the one with the Ubuntu logo
<andrews> ah cheers.  found the disk utility - that will do it wont it?
<jacobw2> yeah
<jacobw2> andrews: you can use NTFS with Linux, but it's easier to use filesystem with POSIX permissions like ext4
<andrews> thanks, I want to wipe the drive to back up my imac - as such it wont read the current ntfs system
<andrews> so i have to use my ubuntu laptop to wipe the drive
<directhex> you probably want FAT32 then, if it's for use with multiple OSes
<directhex> note: 4gb maximum size for a single file on FAT32
<andrews> once i can get my mac to see it, i can re-format it again hopefully, though think that my mac has put a Oxaf partition there.
<popey> evening
<brobostigon> evening popey
<mgdm>  I lile how I can order shoes off Amazon
<mgdm> that way I don't need to go to a shoe shop
<popey> ooh!
<dwatkins> what if they don't fit?
<popey> i didnt know this!
<mgdm> dwatkins: they will, I have had the same type before :)
<dwatkins> ah good, mgdm - I've noticed even for a given manufacturer, the same numbered size is often quite different.
<mgdm> I've been wearing this type in this size since I was about 12
<mgdm> it's my go-to shoe
<mgdm> :)
 * popey adds loads of shoes to his wish-list
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> at the risk of a flaming, anyone going to FOSDEM who does PHP... you have about 4 hours to submit a talk to the PHP devroom...
<dwatkins> which ones, mgdm?
<mgdm> dwatkins: Adidas Sambas :)
<dwatkins> I like Converse, but I tend to wear trainers mostly.
<mgdm> Converse last me about 2 months
<jacobw2> http://www.merrell.com/UK/en-GB/Product.mvc.aspx/25951M/59647/Mens/Moab-Waterproof?dimensions=0
<bootinfdsds> no-one about !
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-01
<AlanBell> czajkowski I have just been informed that tesco in Aldershot now sells taytos
<popey> morning all
<popey> there's a new morrisons in aldergrot now!
<AlanBell> yup, I have not been to that yet
<popey> just got an excellent little present for the out laws
<popey> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150948414011&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:GB:3160
<popey> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150948396632&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:GB:3160
<popey> will keep them busy looking at stuff on that on xmas afternoon :)
<dw4tkins> I want a wall of maps like wallpaper
<bashrc> it looks like nobody is awake yet
<bashrc> sleeping off the hangovers, maybe
<mungojerry-table> morning, does anyone know how i can copy  for mario64 ds onto the ds? my son deleted the save games and can't play the levels he wants to
<mungojerry-table> should say copy/restore save games
<DJones> In LibreOffice Calc, is there a way to print multiple sheets with some sheets in landscape layout and others in portrait layout, all I can get it do is print everything in either portrait or landscape as though the print layout is per spreadsheet file, not per sheet
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ohhhhh :D
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> shall have to go to tesco later to stock on the essentials :) taytos are now on the list
<mungojerry-table> any Nintendo ds owners here?
<popey> ya
 * popey loves his DS
<mungojerry-table> popey any chance you know answer to above question, about copying gamesaves
<popey> on a genuine cart?
<mungojerry-table> yes, my son deleted all my wife game saves
<popey> oops
<popey> dont see how you can restore them
<mungojerry-table> started asking aboutakey to get into castle, then that moment of dread
<mungojerry-table> it'sa ds XL,seems to havea sd cardslot
<popey> mine's just a ds
<mungojerry-table> maybe i need action replay
<Laney> blurgle blurgle
<Laney> yeah those old os maps are the same series wot i have
<bigcalm> Oogie boogie
<bigcalm> Going from a mouse to a thumb trackball is very weird
<bigcalm> Maybe I should have gone for a finger operated type
<jacobw2> morning
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I have a finger trackball at work, it has a slightly annoying scroll button, but otherwise I really like it
<dwatkins> I keep the mouse on the other side of the keyboard for scrolling, but I'll probably just get a magic trackpad when I switch to using a Mac as my main machine.
<bootinfdsds> Hi Peeps Anyone wanna hangout this morning  ? https://diasp.eu/posts/738249
<J4J> afternoon :)
<J4J> http://www.facebook.com/Justice4Jobseekers
<daubers> Afternoon
<MooDoo> hello daubers
 * daubers gets the java book back out again
 * MartijnVdS seeks cover
<oimon> wonders if MartijnVdS is around
 * MartijnVdS is
<oimon> :) hello
<MartijnVdS> \o
<oimon> have quick question
<brobostigon> wouldnt it be, "wonders if * is around". ?
<brobostigon> sorry, i didnt read it properly, :(
<oimon> did i remember correctly that you have a few yann tiersen albums?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: just the one
<oimon> aww maybe i woke you from slumber wrongly
<oimon> sorry if si
<oimon> so
<MartijnVdS> np :)
<oimon> trying to choose another for someone to buy me for chrimstas
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Amazon tends to have previews of the tracks :)
<oimon> spotify and grooveshark have most between them
<oimon> but he has 17 albums :S
<oimon> some are a bit diferent
<oimon> les retrouvailles seems very tabarly esque so looks a winner
<oimon> did anyone notice that the price of CDs is creeping up to Â£15 again
<MartijnVdS> depends on the CD
<oimon> mostly stuff i want :(
<MartijnVdS> old ones are Â£5ish
<MartijnVdS> (old not used)
<oimon> no spotify unity icon boo
<MartijnVdS> it works sometimes, for me
<penguin42> yeh, noticed prices of CDs going up
 * MartijnVdS just finished The Walking Dead
<MartijnVdS> *still shaking*
<shauno> heh, I've been catching up with that too.  24 episodes in 2 days was not clever
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I played the game ;)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it has YOU making the tough decisions.. it's horrible!
<MartijnVdS> :)
<shauno> ah
<shauno> I've just been trying to whittle away some very quiet shifts.  games are less acceptable in the office, for reasons unknown
<MartijnVdS> Weird! :)
<shauno> indeed.  I'd have thought anything that stops me falling asleep from sheer boredom would be in the company's better interest.  oh well
<MartijnVdS> is it that bad?
<shauno> it can be.  if nothing breaks, there's little to do
<MartijnVdS> If only nothing broke where I work...
 * directhex is scared of zombies
 * directhex has killed about a dozen people so far in zombiu
<directhex> sadly ethan, the guy who had a carbine and ammo, got eaten & vanished into the sunset
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Walking Dead is.. not as much about zombies as I thought before
 * penguin42 gave up on the series after about 3 or 4 episodes
<penguin42> seemed quite repetitive
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: TV or game?
<penguin42> TV
<MartijnVdS> I can imagine that becoming repetitive.. at least in the game you get to do things :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: The TV show seemed to basically be in three states; apparent peace, tenseness as impending zombies were expected, and killing zombies, with increasingly tenuous ways to get to stage 3
<MartijnVdS> well what did you expect with a zombie franchise ;)
<bokjhv> I'm on a hangout anyone wants to join in ... https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/c033c757d4bc0b6a6e5e5f334e26ad755859d87e?authuser=0&hl=en-US#
 * penguin42 hates to think why Amazon has just offered me a Borat Mankini Union jack style - having searched for xeyes in Unity
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: darn! I to them to suggest a Donald Duck mankini be offered to you ;)
<SuperEngineer> *told them to
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Indeed, that one makes just no sense....
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> anybody know of an easy to contorl a web cam?
<SuperEngineer> ... [as in turn it off at start up rather than have it glaring its green light at me at startup]
 * penguin42 is surprised it does that
 * penguin42 thought they were reasonably careful to make them only do that when video was being captured
<SuperEngineer> apparently not... furthermore - I'm not beautiful... you'd think it would turn itself off as self defense!
 * SuperEngineer has already installed latest webcam security device... a folded piece of black cardboard to cover the lens]
<popey> Evening all
<SuperEngineer> eveninks popey
<MartijnVdS> \o
<penguin42> is having a reasonably odd day with recommendations; on Amazon's Betterizer it says if I say 'like' for Downtown Abbey, it'll recommend BBC's Coast 2
<Azelphur> Is it only BT that does the up to 76mbit service, or are there any unbundling type things going on?
<dwatkins> Azelphur: you mean specifically fibre to the cabinet and via the telephone line? There's Virgin 100 Mbit cable, as I imagine you know.
<dwatkins> this appears relevant: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/02/bt_fibre_eu/
<Azelphur> yea, virgin isn't available in my area
<Azelphur> fun, so yea it's BT or the highway :P
<AlanBell> Azelphur: plus.net do the 76mbit
<Azelphur> oh that's cool, are they any nicer than BT for it?
<AlanBell> yeah, well it is BT that do the installation, but plusnet shout at them for you so you don't have to do it yourself
<Azelphur> ouch, 250GB monthly caps
<dwatkins> I wonder if Be will join the party.
<penguin42> I think there are quite a few people reselling BTs fibre
<AlanBell> I don't get anywhere near 250GB
<penguin42> not that it helps here since BT still haven't done our box
<penguin42> AlanBell: Are you on fibre though? If not, would you use more if you were on a faster conneciton?
<dwatkins> You can register interest in Be fibre here: https://www.bethere.co.uk/web/beportal/fibre
<AlanBell> penguin42: yes, on FTTC, it goes faster than my wifi
<AlanBell> however I do have an office as well with the same connection
<Azelphur> AlanBell: last month I used 255
<Azelphur> I'd go over 250 if I wasn't careful, 250 is annoying.
<Azelphur> AlanBell: any others reselling?
<AlanBell> This month you've used
<AlanBell> 66.91GB
 * penguin42 thinks Sky do
<Azelphur> oh that's cool, I could perhaps stay on my current sky contract
<Azelphur> and sky are no FUP by principle
<dwatkins> I can't see my usage, as it's unlimited, which is good in a way but it would be useful to know.
<Azelphur> yea, they do, that's awesome
<AlanBell> sky won't do a static IP address though
 * hamitron likes demon internet
<Azelphur> yea, that's fine I have dydns
<Azelphur> the main thing I like is the no FUP
<AlanBell> or I lost the will to live when trying to explain to sky what a static IP address was
<Azelphur> AlanBell: haha
<Azelphur> http://www.sky.com/shop/broadband-talk/fibre-optic/ hmm there's not a lot of info there
<dwatkins> AlanBell: Be?
<dwatkins> I mean have you considered using BeThere...
<AlanBell> no, they didn't do it at the time, and switching is a pain
<AlanBell> Azelphur: midnight to 8am is all you can eat and doesn't count to the 250GB usage
<Azelphur> AlanBell: interesting, I would probably survive ok in that
<Azelphur> hmm, Sky fibre is only 40mbit
<hamitron> what is the upload?
<Azelphur> doesn't say \o/
<AlanBell> I get 15.6 mbit upload without plugging in to the wires
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-02
<penguin42> heck
<AlanBell> the download easily outruns my wifi but it is reporting 25Mbit now, if I plug in to the router it will be 70mbit or so down
<penguin42> AlanBell: So that lets us watch HD video of whatever you're seeing all the time?
<Azelphur> according to bt infinity checker my flat should be capable of 66.9/20
<Azelphur> but sky only do 40/something :(
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/pad well you can watch 640x480 of my front garden
<Azelphur> hi dark garden
<AlanBell> the camera has survived the cold temperatures so far
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> http://www.zdnet.com/sky-offers-secret-faster-broadband-to-new-customers-3040155114/
<Azelphur> so looks like it's coming soon anyway
<penguin42> It's odd, I thought the fibre stuff is much closer to BTs infrastructure than the ADSL2 stuff is
<Azelphur> so after much investigation, it seems like I can have speed, bandwidth allowance, or cheap, pick any 2 :P
<Azelphur> I think I'll sacrifice a little bit of speed, sky will no doubt up the offering at some point, and it's the easy route
<bokjhv> Any-one about ?
<MooDoo> morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> morning
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS just came back from a 15k run
<brobostigon> wow.
<MartijnVdS> training for the 20 again, early March
<brobostigon> ah.
<MooDoo> I've got to speeds, slow and stop ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: oh, that's YOU in the street every time I'm trying to do some shopping? ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<AlanBell> popey theopensourcerer christmas trees are in sandy lane
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning alan
<christel> AlanBell: how many did you cut down? :)
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> bug package question: Kernel update occured yesterday, but both of my proprietary drivers didn't get reinstalled because linux-headers wasn't pulled in. Should I file this against nvidia_current and the broadcom driver packager, or against the kernel, or against jockey?
<daubers> (Much fun being booted to a cli with no netwoorking....)
<jacobw2> morning
<jacobw2> daubers: against the things that sound depend on specific kernel version, i think
<jacobw2> daubers: s/sound/should
<StevenR> well. that was less painful than it could have been (getting Virgin Media to make my 30Mbps broadband go faster than 1.5Mbps)
<daubers> jacobw2: But surely that would mean that every time a new kernel is released, nvidia_current needs to be repackaged?
 * daubers reports it against nvidia-current and lets others deal with it
<jacobw2> daubers: if the kernel update breaks nvidia current
<jacobw2> daubers: yeah, i think it's most likely to be handled by the nvidia team
<daubers> jacobw2: It happened to the broadcom driver too :)
<jacobw2> daubers: damn these binary blobs
<AlanBell> christel: cut down 6 or so, brought one ho
<AlanBell> home
<AlanBell> it is 9ft tall and has to go in an 8ft room, so some adjustment required
<StevenR> AlanBell: christmas tree?
<AlanBell> StevenR: yup
<AlanBell> free pick your own trees
<StevenR> AlanBell: is there enough space above the ceiling to raise it by the required 1ft to fit the tree in? Don't forget fairy/star room too.
<AlanBell> the "cut a hole in the ceiling" plan has been rejected
<SuperEngineer> it is always easier to dig down than dig up... remove floorboards when nobody looking... exclaim "Oh! The tree did fit after all!"
<AlanBell> the minecraft approach to christmas tree installation
<AlanBell> don't stand on the bit you are digging, there might be lava
<SuperEngineer> lol
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<StevenR> AlanBell: one would hope that you would not find lava under your floor
<RaycisCharles> Has the name for 13.10 been decided yet?
<RaycisCharles> Somebody suggested Solid Snake...I like it.
<bigcalm> It's like collapsing within the uncertainty principal. As soon as a name is suggested, the wave collapses and that name is removed from all possibilities
<penguin42> the naming of releases is in the lap of the Mark
<RaycisCharles> Oh dear.
<RaycisCharles> He'll probably pick something dumb, then.
<bigcalm> Self appointed benevolent dictators (for life) tend not to listen name suggestions
<RaycisCharles> It might not matter if he manages to alienate users even more than he has already.
<RaycisCharles> How about Ubuntu 13.10 Stubborn Shuttleworth?
<jacobw2> Shimmering Swallow
<jacobw2> Stoic Slothbear
<penguin42> Something Speedy would be better
<jacobw2> Slothbears are actually man eaters
<penguin42> jacobw2: Well you'd be slothy if you're laying back trying to digest that man
<jacobw2> "Captain Williamson in his Oriental Field Sports wrote of how sloth bears rarely killed their human victims outright, but would suck and chew on their limbs till they were reduced to bloody pulps."
<penguin42> haha
<SuperEngineer> My 2p's worth on 'Stating âWorks with Linuxâ gains a sale (and respect)' http://superengr.wordpress.com/
<shauno> anyone have a handy trick off-hand, to rename a directory full of files to match the output of shasum?  (eg, I have misnamed files, and a copy of 'shasum *' from how they should look)
<penguin42> hmm fun problem
<shauno> I can probably bodge something together, but if it already exists, it'd be much easier
<jacobw2>  for i in $(ls); do mv $i "$(shasum $i)"; done;
<penguin42> shauno: Howabout starting with something like mv $NAME `shasum $NAME| cut -d' ' -f1`
<penguin42> jacobw2: nice
<penguin42> jacobw2: But that's not what he wants
<penguin42> jacobw2: He wants to go the otherway as well
<shauno> yeah; that's pretty much the operation I'm trying to reverse
<penguin42> jacobw2: i.e. already has an output of shasum for the whole directory and wants to look back up and rename to the entries that match
<shauno> they've all been renamed to be 8.3-filename friendly, and I'm trying to restore sanity
<penguin42> shauno: so then   for NAME in *; do mv $NAME `grep reffile ^$NAME|cut -d' ' -f2`
<penguin42> shauno: Or something like that, with some checks :-)
<jacobw2> i think that's the solution
<jacobw2> use 'do echo "mv .."' to check the form first
<penguin42> hehe yes
<penguin42> and you need to check for the case where there is no match in the reference file
<jacobw2> you'd get a missing argument error from mv
<penguin42> true; it never quite seems a safe way to do things when moving files around
<jacobw2> well, you could do 'cp ../new/$NAME' to avoid losing data
<penguin42> or ln
<jacobw2> if you deleted the old folder, you'd have a directory of correctly named but broken symlinks :)
<jacobw2> unless you meant using hardlinks
<shauno> hm, it's a shame cut won't take two spaces as a delimiter, -f2 doesn't like filenames with spaces
<penguin42> shauno: awk will work with things like tabs, but hmm
<penguin42> shauno: given the sum is the start of the line, I think you should be able to wrangle the start of the line off
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps
<shauno> well, it's not pretty, but appears to be working; for I in *; do mv "$I" "done/$(grep ^$(shasum "$I" | cut -d' ' -f1) ~/shasum.lst|sed 's/^.\{42\}//g')"; done
<shauno> and yes, I'm working on a copy of the original, I'm not that brave :)
<shauno> there must be a more efficient way that doesn't involve grepping the same file 55,000 times, but it's a one off, so I'll live
<penguin42> shauno: isn't it amazing the number of places 42 comes in useful?
<shauno> ;)
<shauno> I did notice that's the only constant there.  a sha1sum is 40 characters long, and the separator is two spaces, rather than a tab as I thought
<popey> pip pip bigcalm
<n1md4> evening.  i've installed ubuntu minimal, but add-apt-repository is not workning "sudo: add-apt-repository: command not found".  I've isnstalled python-software-properties.
<n1md4> python-software-common has the answer.
<n1md4> solved.
<yxkvast> brobostigon said that you where nice "chaps" that could help me install minetest on my computer
<yxkvast> i dont even know the basics, and have no idea why someone would like to try to explane this to me
<yxkvast> explain*
 * yxkvast is going to get another beer
<dwatkins> memtest, perhaps?
<yxkvast> minetest, another variant of minecraft (a game).
<dwatkins> oh right, I don't know what that is, sorry.
<dwatkins> do the googles not help? ;)
<brobostigon> https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/stable
<yxkvast> we was going to play online, but i have played minecraft earlier and really like it, but my computer is not so good, so i have not played minecraft for a while, but minetest doesnt need much of a computer to run especially on ubuntu
<yxkvast> https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/stable is there a file there or a script i need to download ?
<dwatkins> There's a link part-way down 'read this about installing', yxkvast - hopefully that has all you need
<dwatkins> sorry "read about installing" if you're searching the page
<yxkvast> thanks :)
<yxkvast> do i have to register to launchpad.net?
<dwatkins> don't think so, just add the repository as it says
<yxkvast> what to print in the terminal ?
<dwatkins> urrm, I'm not sure what you're asking - it should give you a list of commands
<yxkvast> https://launchpad.net/+help-soyuz/images/add-apt-repo1.png
<yxkvast> should i just copy that ?
<yxkvast> https://launchpad.net/+help-soyuz/images/add-apt-repo2.png
<dwatkins> yes, that demonstrates the sudo command and what comes after it, which will run the apt-add-repository command with the necessary privileges, so copy the bits after the prompt and enter your password when asked
<yxkvast> ok, ill try
<yxkvast> i had the idea that the gwibbler was just an example that i was supposed to exchange with something else
<dwatkins> !gwibbler
<dwatkins> the bot doesn't know that package
<Azelphur> anyone done any speedtest.nets on bt infinity?
<daftykins> my mate has a 40/10 service with moded 'modem' to give line stats if y'need?
<yxkvast> nothing of this make sense to me, what is an PPA (it starting to make little sense now, therefore i asked about the ppa so i can figure out what to do and not just do as i have been told to do)
<Azelphur> daftykins: was interested in the 76
<daftykins> 76 huh?
<Azelphur> daftykins: bt infinity is 40/10 or 76/20
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> cor you're greedy ;)
<dwatkins> yxkvast: it's a Personal Package Archive, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
<yxkvast> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:user/ppa-name
<Azelphur> daftykins: yep :D
<daftykins> Azelphur: when he hosted a file for me from home the other day and i grabbed it at 900KB/sec+ i shed a tear :(
<Azelphur> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2182164792.png woa lol
<dwatkins> Azelphur: wow, your upload is better than my download speed :)
<daftykins> what do you see real-world values though? speedtest.net is pretty inaccurate imo
<Azelphur> dwatkins: not mine, but that's the service I'm gonna get
<Azelphur> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2176761695.png :O
<loaky> Is there anything you can run locally to test speed?
<popey> yxkvast, brobostigon that ppa is old
<Azelphur> loaky: yea, just go to http://speedtest.net
<brobostigon> popey: my server will use the stable minetest server, server and client need to be the same version, therefore, etc.
<popey> ok
<popey> does minetest work on arm?
<yxkvast> brobostigon, Is this correct: sudo-apt-respitory ppa:gwibber-daily/ppa ?
<brobostigon> popey: good question, it is c++, so should be recompile-able.
<popey> might give it a go
<brobostigon> yxkvast: for gwibber that looks about right,
<popey> yxkvast,  sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable
<yxkvast> what should i print instead od gwibbler ?
<daftykins> Azelphur: are those both biz packages?
<loaky> I read somewhere Minetest has trouble with Windows on ARM. I don't know whether you can draw any parallels though popey
<yxkvast> so then i will print sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable, whatever we are doing will work perfectly ?
<Azelphur> daftykins: not afaik
<popey> yxkvast, the following commands:-
<popey> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable
<popey> sudo apt-get update
<popey> sudo apt-get install minetestc55
<yxkvast> popey, thanks:) i will try that
<popey> just tested it here on ubuntu 12.04
<loaky> Actually that was Minecraft so forget I mentioned it popey
 * directhex moos
<yxkvast> it is installing
<yxkvast> is it intalled now, the game?
<popey> yxkvast, what desktop you using?
<yxkvast> cool, it showed up in the games
<popey> ah cool
<yxkvast> it is great that i have kind computer experts to help me
<yxkvast> the computer has not yet loaded the game yet, but that is probably because the computer is made from two trashed computers
<popey> it shouldn't take long to start
<popey> starts instantly here
<popey> It's a bit early development wise
<popey> it oddly renders stuff nearby and stuff far away but not mid-range stuff
<yxkvast> I will restart the computer, and se if the program starts as i should
<popey> it shouldn't need a restart
<yxkvast> but i think this is a good sign that i need to buy/build a new computer
<popey> what spec is the current one?
<yxkvast> idk
<dwatkins> is there a command that will get a summary of the computer's specification in Ubuntu? A line or two that gives just the vital information (instead of a load of other stuff like cat /proc/cpuinfo does)?
<daftykins> there's that lshw-gtk app i think?
<daftykins> i feel like i said this before very recently
<dwatkins> you may have done, daftykins - I'm often elsewhere
<dwatkins> thanks, will check
<daftykins> ah righty-o
<yxkvast> i can send a pm if it makes any sense
<dwatkins> yxkvast: if you think it needs replacing, it's quite likely it's not fast enough to run minecraft, sadly
<yxkvast> i did send a pm to popey, if it did make any sense i can send those specs to others too
<dwatkins> I was just curuous. Unfortunately the command I'm talking about outputs 350 lines by default and 33 lines with the '-short' option, but perhaps there are simpler ways like using pastebinit
<popey> model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
<dwatkins> ah right, that pretty much summs it up ;)
<popey> sw
<popey> bah
<popey> there's the system info thing
<popey> just open the dash and type "details"
<popey> IntelÂ® Coreâ¢ i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GHz Ã 4
<popey> is what it says for me
<dwatkins> ah ok
<dwatkins> I was hoping for a command line version too
<popey> dmidecode
<popey> lshw -html produces nicer output
<dwatkins> ah yes, neat
<yxkvast> thanks for the help with the software installations
<yxkvast> i will take a look if i can update some of the hardware
<yxkvast> on tuesday i will maybe have more updates on the hardware front
<yxkvast> so if you have the server up and running in a week brobostigon  i maybe have made some chances with the computers
<yxkvast> bye
<dwatkins> c ya
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-25
<spiritech> fdisk -l does not do anything.
<penguin42> spiritech: As root
<penguin42> spiritech: fdisk -l   only lists stuff as root
<penguin42> spiritech:   blkid /dev/sda1  for example also shows the UUID
<penguin42> udisksctl dump    is also an interesting way but it tells you LOADS of stuff
<spiritech> it says the id for /dev/sdc1 is c is that normal?
<penguin42> no
<spiritech> hmm
<penguin42> uuid's are great bind long numbers
<spiritech> it si set up as a bootable device
<spiritech> sdd1 says id 83
<penguin42> says where?
<penguin42> oh, that's a partitation type number, not the id
<daftykins> spiritech: are you just running "sudo blkid" ?
<penguin42> spiritech: That's the fdisk -l   Id column, that just tells you the type of partition
<spiritech> my out put from sudo fdisk -l    here   ->  http://www.pasteall.org/47594/text
<penguin42> yeh it doesn't tell you much useful - that just tells you partition sizes/types
<spiritech> sudo blkid /dev/sdd1   works and gave me long uuid number.
<penguin42> right and that should be in /dev/disk/by-uuid
<spiritech> so that uuid never changes. even if the device is plugged in later and given a different   /dev/sdb thing.
<penguin42> correct
<spiritech> so   /dev/disk/by-uuid will always find that device?
<spiritech> if plugged in
<penguin42> spiritech: normally yes (I've seen it not work for some internal sata drives but that's a separate story) - but for things like usb drives it's always good
<penguin42> spiritech: You'll see it's just a symlink - and udisks sets that up for you automatically
<spiritech> ok. well thats cool.
<spiritech> i have an old theme called azenis. have put it into a .icon and .theme   folder at ~/... and the tweak tool still does not find it.
<spiritech> any suggestions?
<ali1234> probably doesn't support gtk3?
<spiritech> it is an old gtk and metacity-1 theme. it was working on 13.04. and have seen other themes if the same format working.
<spiritech> gtk2
<spiritech> how many .folders should i have for themes in my home folder 2 or 3?
<spiritech> ~/.icon ~/.theme   should there be another?
<spiritech> anyway does not matter that much. thanks for your help again.
<spiritech> unity top panel would so much better if it was transparent by default. the dull grey black really lets it down.
<spiritech> its like. heres a beautiful modern side panel, and then heres a nice, old and dull looking panel at the top for you.
<spiritech> so going back to the device subject. does /media/username/corsair8gb simply point to /dev/disk/by-uuid    soooo     corsair8gb = /dev/disk/by-uuid        somewhere in the system?
<spiritech> penguin42
<penguin42> ?
<spiritech> going back to the device subject. does /media/username/corsair8gb simply point to /dev/disk/by-uuid    soooo     corsair8gb = /dev/disk/by-uuid        somewhere in the system?
<penguin42> no, the /media/username/corsair8gb is a mountpoint, not the device
<spiritech> so how does the computer know where corsair8gb is?
<penguin42> spiritech: Do you understand unix/linux mounts?
<spiritech> it seems no.
<spiritech> not
<penguin42> spiritech: OK, so the /dev/ stuff is raw blocks - that's like gives me the bytes at this place on the partition - it's not files/directories etc - that's what your filesystem does
<spiritech> alll i am saying is the device is not really corsair8gb. it is really an address yes.
<spiritech> ?
<penguin42> spiritech: When you 'mount' something you associate a directory (lets say /media/username/corsair8gb) with a block device (say /dev/sdd1) and tell the filesystem to present that block devices contents under that directory
<spiritech> and how does it do that. is there anywhere i can read about it maybe. cos i always thought that some kind of variable goes on to turn the actual device address into a human readable name?
<spiritech> like /media/username/corsair8gb is just a variable for     16537652615/185761547512475/12365761571527625
<penguin42> no
<spiritech> or am i not understanding things correctly.
<penguin42> spiritech: There's two different parts to it; the act of 'mounting' and where you mount it, the name 'corsair8gb' is just reading a string that's probably a label stored somewhere on the filesystem
<spiritech> ok. i see.
<penguin42> spiritech: Just like the uuid is a magic id stored somewhere on the filesystem but isn't designed to be user readable
<daftykins> *nod* FAT volume label
 * daftykins has a 'corsair16gb' :>
<spiritech> the addressing is another part of it then?
<penguin42> spiritech: Thing is there are lots of different places names might be stored, e.g. if it's formatted one way or another, and things like blkid and udisks figure that all out and come up with the name that they use when they automatically mount stuff for you - but in the end you can manually put it whereever you like (as per fstab)
<spiritech> ok. i undersatnd that . and suppose i am on a diff subject now.
<spiritech> like how linux dials the device it wants to send info to.
<penguin42> sorry, don't quite get you
<spiritech> doesnt everything in a computer need to be dialled.
<spiritech> to send the information to the right place?
<penguin42> sorry I don't know what you mean by 'dialled'
<spiritech> well how does the computer know where to send the info that it has. like send this info to usb port 1. doesnt each component have an address?
<spiritech> as well as the ram  and other things like hdd .
<penguin42> oh it's way more complex than that these days - layers on top of layers on top of layers
<spiritech> thats what i thought was at the base of all of it.  send this bunch of 1's and 0' to this address.
<penguin42> no, that's so far down the food chain nothing at this level really thinks aboutit
<spiritech> yes. although its till there tho.
<penguin42> spiritech: Think about it like this; that file you stored? It's a file on top of a VFAT filesystem where the blocks are stored on a SCSI device, that's actually on USB connected via two or three levels of USB hub back to one of one or two USB host controllers on a PCIe bus somewhere on your PC
<penguin42> spiritech: each one of those things is a layer of code that tries not to care about the layers below it and the layers above it (except some perf tweaks)
<daftykins> :D
<spiritech> yes. and the file was still sent in binary form. either on or off.  the layers just make sure that those 1's and 0's make sense on both ends.
<penguin42> spiritech: but they hide it from each other and it's all protocol now - it's not like it's at different individual addresses, there are addresses and things at each layer
<spiritech> which brings me to another question. does the file get sent to ram before it gets sent to the usb device or does it go direct?
<penguin42> oh via a few layers in ram
<penguin42> normally
<spiritech> also i agree the layers hide all the work and make things a lot simpler. although its those layers i am interested in dissecting and understanding a little further.
<spiritech> after all. what would gorillas be without ants?
<spiritech> lol
<penguin42> relaxed and not confused as hell about why their fir is twitching?
<spiritech> lol
<spiritech> or whales without plankton then.
<penguin42> bed!
<spiritech> anyway i suppose i should really google more on this subject. as i feel our subject has become more about stuff other than ubuntu
<spiritech> or penguin42 without bed. indeed.
<spiritech> well thanks again for yours help. :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<mungbean> day off today \o/
<MooDoo> and you're up this early on here?
<mungbean> giving wife a lie in
<mungbean> feeding baby
<MooDoo> ah lovely :)
<mungbean> duty calls
<Myrtti> Amazon has Black Friday deals week this week, they've got a Crucial 2.5-inch 240GB Internal Solid State Drive on at 10.30 if anyone is interested
<MartijnVdS> noice
<Myrtti> I have no idea if it's good or not, and no I'm not an Amazon lackey
<Myrtti> just thought someone might be interested and value a reminder that they have such a thing
<MooDoo> Myrtti: 10.30?
<Myrtti> in two hours
<MartijnVdS> and 8 minutes
<MooDoo> ah get you
<Myrtti> Windows 8 Pro Upgrade edition is 45 pounds there now
<MooDoo> i bought that when it was Â£25 :)
<dwatkins> as did I, useful for games and other things which don't yet run on linux (Bitcasa, for one)
<MooDoo> photoshop and lightroom for me
<Myrtti> I feel silly, I go all "eeeekkkk what a lovely bag" sometimes and I surprise myself with it
<Myrtti> although
<Myrtti> this happens usualy with only laptop bags
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> Myrtti: i took my wife shopping and we went to a bag shop, cheapest handbag was Â£90 :S
<Myrtti> MooDoo: zoink
<MooDoo> Myrtti: radley, i think was the name of them
<dwatkins> There are some very well designed laptop rucsacks available. I have to stop myself buying them.
<SuperMatt> morning d
<dwatkins> allo allo
<MooDoo> hello SuperMatt dwatkins
<dwatkins> I have black tea, although apparently earl grey is supposed to be without milk - good job, as I have none
<SuperMatt> dwatkins: yes it is
<SuperMatt> though tbh, who cares? just have it the way you like it
<MooDoo> earl grey tastes grim with milk
<SuperMatt> the only senses we have are our own, so there's no point trying to spend your life pleasing other people's senses
<dwatkins> indeed, being lactose-intolerant (it makes me ill, not annoyed) I have to buy my own milk at work, and I ran out.
<SuperMatt> doh
<diplo> Mornall all
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> tautalogical on purpose?
<MartijnVdS> Mornalling?
<dwatkins> tautalogical, SuperMatt?
<SuperMatt> mornall all
<SuperMatt> two alls
<SuperMatt> tautology is using multiple similar words twice
<SuperMatt> meaning one of them is redundant
<Myrtti> dwatkins: all UHT milk in Finland is low-lactose, you can imagine my face when I realised such is not the case in UK
<dwatkins> Myrtti: interesting, I wish that were the case here. Going out for dinner is a nightmare as so much stuff has cream in it, too.
<Myrtti> dwatkins: many Finns are at bare minimum selfdiagnosed lactoseintolerants so lot of the food is lowlactose/lactose free by default
<Myrtti> and it is usually marked in the menus
<bigcalm> Yay, I've been given an RMA number for my OCZ SSD
<directhex> bigcalm, i swapped an OCZ SSD out of my dad's PC yesterday
<bigcalm> directhex: was it deaded?
<MartijnVdS> it's SSD season.. aq's, yours, ...
<MartijnVdS> Amazon's deal comes at the right moment ;)
<directhex> bigcalm, kept disappearing from the bus
<bigcalm> directhex: that's just what mine did before going completely
<bigcalm> Over a few months
<Laney> SSD deal?
<bigcalm> Power off and back on usually fixed it
<MooDoo> Laney: 240gb deal, black friday it's a crucial drive
<MooDoo> going on sale 10:30 or so Myrtti sais
<MooDoo> said
<Laney> ah, one of those things
<popey> hmm, i dont see any SSD in the black friday page
<popey> is it personalised?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Parfait Day! :-D
<bigcalm> popey: lightning deals
<bigcalm> popey: upcomming bit
<bigcalm> popey: few clicks to the right (depending upon how wide your browser window is)
<popey> aha
<MooDoo> deal starts at 10:30
<popey> I "need" a bigger one really.
<popey> My laptop has 2x240GB SSD already
<popey> will wait for the 500G ones to come down a bit
<popey> watched http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01f13f4/The_Man_who_Discovered_Egypt/ last night. enjoyed it...
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I watched that too. Very interesting - had never heard of the bloke before.
<popey> yeah, me either
<popey> tweeted the guy who made it last night to say thanks
<jussi> how do other people organise stationery on their desk. Mine is a mess, stickers, staplers, hole punchers, pens, usb sticks headsets etc. do people have them in boxes? or pencil cases? or what do you do ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> interesting word "organise"...
<popey> indeed
<directhex> jussi, filing cabinet, alphabetical ordering!
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just throw stuff onto my desk until I can't see the wood. Then decide I need to tiday.
<TheOpenSourcerer> *tidy
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: that is the current strategy. it sucks.
<diddledan> I do the same as TheOpenSourcerer except the last part
<TheOpenSourcerer> My desk at home is nearing its annual tidy up...
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've managed somehow to keep my office desk amazingly clear, but then I don't use much paper and only keep one pen on it
<popey> i use old mugs to put stuff in
<popey> i have a mug of euros, a mug of GBP, one for pens, one for screwdrivers
<popey> and a mug of tea â»
<MooDoo> popey: are you having your image [the one of you stroking a cat] put on a mug, I'd buy it lol
<diddledan> popey is blofeld?
<popey> what, like this? http://imgur.com/Cpkj6D3,UswfyC4,YY4aSHL,IiFscKE,Iv9QnVB
<diddledan> cute kitty
<MooDoo> the one of you at vUDS - https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AlanPope/photos/photo/5947973727567261394 ;)
<popey> heh
<MooDoo> one way for you to make a few quid alan :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> We are over 60% of the way there: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu :-D
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: just shared it out again.
<popey> jussi: that said, yes I do have some little plastic boxes
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> Yes. Good morning.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
<bashrc> morning
<popey> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x140e cute
<popey> good for schoolkids
<popey> and has touchpoint so yay
<jussi> popey: nice!
<diddledan> I like that schoolkids are described as "more demanding" than the military
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and bashrc
<diddledan> i.e. they bash it harder
<czajkowski> aloha
<bashrc> Have been messing with a Beaglebone Black.  Debian installs quite easily onto it.
<jussi> diddledan: hehe, probably true...
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski how are you ?
<popey> well that was a fun 10 mins
<arsen> m
<arsen> hmhmmh
<arsen> who works in the canonical london office? :o
<popey> postman handed over post then said "ooh, Ubuntu!" after seeing my t-shirt
<popey> chatting about linux on the doorstep with the postie â»
<arsen> .. the world is changing :)
<popey> "2014 is the year of linux on the doorstep."
<MooDoo> did you give him a disk ;)
<diddledan> popey: awesome
<bashrc> :)
<diddledan> speaking of which, I don't actually have any ubuntu aparell
<popey> nah, he already has it
<MooDoo> diddledan: you need to get on the store quick sharpish ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: <almost feeling sorry for the paddies>Shame about yesterday wasn't it?</almost feeling sorry for the paddies>
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: she's almost geeling sorry for the english in the rugby world cup as well ;)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: well lets see how England does and will they almost beat the Kiwis
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some of us have little expectation, although we have, at least, beaten them several times in the last 100 years ;-)
<czajkowski> such a cheeky old sod TheOpenSourcerer :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
<czajkowski> hmm I have an very odd bug on 13.10 which I know exists but cannot for the life of me report it via  abug
<MooDoo> gone down to Â£95 that 240gb ssd on amazon
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-*
<MooDoo> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BQ8RM1A/ref=gb1h_img_c-1_8827_eca2d0da?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=0M18WASEEBB95G8V025C&pf_rd_i=161428031&pf_rd_p=449478827
<czajkowski> when I shut down the machine it flipping well restarts
<czajkowski> but not every time
<MooDoo> ignore that link
<jussi> hrm, ideapad yoga 11s looks an interesting machine...
<jussi> ie. http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/yoga/yoga-11s/
<jussi> although crappy screen is crappy
<popey> updated nexus 7 to 4.4 OTA, seemed to work okay
<arsen> think i'm gona go back to a 11inch mac air and dual boot it :/
<bigcalm> Yay. Samsung SSD has arrived for my Wife's laptop
 * popey notes bigcalm isn't getting bored of using "my wife" yet
<bigcalm> :D
<Myrtti> was that ssd deal any good?
<MooDoo> Myrtti: took it down to about Â£95
<Myrtti> I have no idea if it's a good price or a good device at al
<Myrtti> l
<bigcalm> popey: without the quotes, that sentence is quite quite different
<popey> it has 15 mins left on that deal
<bigcalm> Which deal?
<SuperMatt> who is it here that works at Queen Mary's?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: cheap SSD black friday deal on amazon
<bigcalm> There's 2h 41m remaining on that
<MooDoo> Is ubuntu uk having a virtual christmas party? ;) over google hangouts? ;)
<bigcalm> Can I justify 96 quid on an SSD I'm unlikely to use any time soon?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: no
<bigcalm> MooDoo: thank you :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yw!
 * bigcalm closes the window
<penguin42> but how much would I pay for the Olympus camera coming up in a few mins?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: :)
<TwistedLucidity> Anyone got experience using the nvidia NVS 5400M discrete graphics card?
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: I've fot the 3100M it's not 100% the same, but what's your problem?
<TwistedLucidity> Appaling performance (about 1/10th of the integrated Intel). Is this normal?
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: Is this with the Nvidia closed source driver?
<TwistedLucidity> penguin24: And Bumblee (I have the correct closed source variant); yes
<bigcalm> Am I right in thinking that one shouldn't run Windows XP from an SSD?
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: Hmm I'd expect it to be really fast
<Rory> bigcalm: Or een at all
<penguin42> hmm, that Olympus is #105 - not quite low enough to make me jump at it, not too bad
<TwistedLucidity> penguin24: Even if I boot into Windows 7 the card stinks. nvidia told me it is only for applications can can't do 3D acceleration.
<Rory> Oh my key between c and b doesn't work
<MooDoo> bigcalm: xp doesn't support trim, so i suspect it's only the lifespan effected.
<Rory> That's why this keyboard was in a cupboard
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: That's a bizarre thing to say
<popey> Rory: vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv keep those to one side for when you need them
<Rory> popey: I'll contact you again if I use them up, thanks
<popey> np
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: what machine is this on?
<TwistedLucidity> Lenovo ThinkPad T430
<Rory> popey: I'd paste them off to the side...
<popey> I'd print them out and scan them in when you need them
<TwistedLucidity> penguin42: And in Windows, the "Windows Experience" drops from 4.9 to 2.0. I am beginning to wonder if the machine has a fault.
<bigcalm> MooDoo: that's what I thought
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: Hmm I've only used the w520 in the past - but it is normally the Nvidia is supposed to be faster
<MooDoo> bigcalm: it'll still work though
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: I'd check the bios is up to date - the thinkpad bioses can be a bit random; and you've got it set on 'discrete' rather than optimus? And you've got the correct powerbrick plugged in?
<bigcalm> MooDoo: just not for very long :)
<TwistedLucidity> penguin42: Yup, on mains power, latest drivers (Windows and Kubuntu). If I try "discrete graphics" in the BIOS the laptop crawls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: I agree that's weird
<bigcalm> davmor2: morning
<TwistedLucidity> penguin42: Thanks, I'll keep trying to get in contact with Lenovo; might have to try and make a warranty claim I guess.
<TwistedLucidity> I wasn't expecting quad GPU, SLI mega-performance; but from the 3D mark I did expect the NVS 5400M to be about twice as fast as the Intel HD 4000
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: As I say, I would try the bios first
<TwistedLucidity> The other odd thing (on Windows) is that it won't let me select the graphics card.
<TwistedLucidity> penguin42: I'll check that again at lunch. Maybe I missed an update.
<davmor2> Holidays == E:TOO_MANY_EMAILS
<jussi> davmor2: +++
<davmor2> Laney: hey dude did you get a markus in the end?
<davmor2> Or did you go for a standing desk instead?
<Laney> davmor2: yeah, sure did
<Laney> enjoying it very much so far
<davmor2> Laney: Yay community rocks at recommending chairs
<Laney> I like being able to recline
<Laney> standing desk will be at next place I think, only just got this one
<Myrtti> they do have an office chair on sale soonish too
<Myrtti> well, after noon
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<Myrtti> 12.30
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005F3VGDW/
<davmor2> czajkowski: get off me you don't know where I've been woman :D
 * Laney gets an email about a DD being switched to $newcurrentaccount
<Laney> this switching service seems to basically work
<czajkowski> davmor2: cuddlying a pug :)
<mungbean> anyone get to the bottom of chrome's sudden jump in resource requirements?
<davmor2> czajkowski: bash is the pug not me honest :P
<davmor2> mungbean: it hates you
<Laney> bangers and bash
<davmor2> mungbean: if it's chrome it might be their implementation of flash
<diddledan> I hadn't noticed any change in requirements for chrome
<MooDoo> davmor2: is czajkowski being nice?   eewwwwww
<davmor2> mungbean: you might find that ad blocking is now disabled too, possibly
<Myrtti> mungbean: hasn't it *always* eaten everything you've got
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know right it's scary, all because she has a pug, that you wouldn't know about because g+, facebook and twitter just don't give it away :D
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm looking at you for the last comment grrrrrrr embedded pictures ;)
<mungbean> suddenly its a lot worse for mem and making my fan go crazy
<czajkowski> davmor2: but he's so cute!
<MooDoo> davmor2: I don't know czajkowski gets this new job and takes advantage....she needs to stab you and qucik sharpish!
<mungbean> few others were complaining the same day
<czajkowski> also if anyone would like to learn about MongoDB, there is a free class on it over the coming weeks, self paced and you get  acert at the end of it . https://education.mongodb.com/courses/10gen/M101P/2013_November/about
<MooDoo> well that's a cool idea.
<MooDoo> well it was until I saw the requirements, I'm not a programmer :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: have you ever heard the term pug ugly :P I'll just leave that comment there and move on /me sits on the naughty step sniggering  on a more serious note he did look quite smug in Jons arms :D
<czajkowski> MooDoo: self paced why not try :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: sit there and be quiet you
<czajkowski> also socks are not safe neither are shoe laces from Bash :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: and that's how you get czajkowski back to normal :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ok i've signed up :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's just pupies but you need to stop him doing that, I recommend a toy on a stick
<czajkowski> he has toys, and also taken to dragging his bed from one room to the next.
<czajkowski> for a tiny thing he's strong, although need to get his nails trimmed as they clawed me last night when giving him cough stuff
<davmor2> czajkowski: you don't clip puppie claws you need to wait till they are 6 months before you start clipping iirc look it up though
<czajkowski> :(
<diddledan> I prefer kitties :-)
<davmor2> czajkowski: iirc it's something to do with the nail bed not being fully formed so you can clip it too short which can in turn infect the nail bed or something like that
<MooDoo> I prefer tahr's
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: trusty ones?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: depends if you get to know them well ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: interesting
<davmor2> MooDoo: I prefer wee timorous beasties with big pointy teeth, it helps if you have a holy hand grenade knocking around for that though :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh now you're just giving me the spanish inquisition
<mungbean> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1150486273/snooperscope-night-vision-for-your-smartphone-ipho?ref=email
<mungbean> popey, night vision for you
<mungbean> 15 left inthe early bird
<davmor2> MooDoo: Ni
<mungbean> ..r webcam
<mungbean> ah, it uses an app to send wirelessly
<mungbean> lol http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1961548517/all-new-adventures-of-morph-from-aardman-animation
<penguin42> mungbean: You had to go for one of the rather high end packages to get a morph, which I thought was mean
<diddledan> I like that they had chaz boot morph up the .. at the end
<diddledan> the video
<diddledan> that was actually a really good kickstarter video
<penguin42> well, it is their business
<diddledan> true
<penguin42> I'm sure they could have got the money going to a bank or the like, but it would have cost them more - I guess this is probably costing them what #4k or so?
<Myrtti> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/502701513/foldio-the-1st-foldable-studio-for-smartphone <-- considering
<popey> not getting a jolla device?
<Myrtti> mmm?
<popey> sorry, unrelated to that
<popey> thats very cool
<penguin42> oh, probably nearer #10k I guess, kickstarter fees
<TwistedLucidity> penguin42: Looks like you might have been on to something, my current BIOS version is 2.53, the most recent is 2.59. Trying to find detailed change logs to see if any of them fixed nvidia issues.
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: Oh I wouldn't bet on the change logs
<popey> "Usually dispatched within 2 to 4 weeks.
<popey> oops
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: I used to work in an office with a load of people with w520's - we had about 5 different bios versions and they each had their own quirks, but the newest was best generally
<TwistedLucidity> penguin24: Before I make the situation any worse I decided to invoke the warranty. If this card can be made to perform as I expect, this will be an awesome lappy.
<TwistedLucidity> New BIOS going in...fingers crossed. I see an evening of fun an games with updates ahead of me! :-S
<SuperMatt> http://zed0.co.uk/crossword/
<SuperMatt> have we all played this yet?
<Myrtti> I have
<TwistedLucidity> penguin42: Fixed it. You'll never guess what it was.
<TwistedLucidity> penguin42: Someone (not me) had applied the airplane seat power plan. Sauerbraten now thumps along at ~400fps.
<TwistedLucidity> Cheers for the help!
<diddledan> how does that affect ubuntu?
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: Ah right - yeh so that's why I asked if you had the PSU in
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: took me a few moments to work out what the heck was giong on
<TwistedLucidity> I did - but the "Airplane " setting seems to impose itself. I'll have to have a fiddle with the power management - clearly it arrived in a slightly cocked manner. What was odd though it that the setting affected Windows and Kubuntu.
<SuperMatt> it's truly shocking though when you do
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Buggered if I know.
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Some kind of NVRAM setting?
<penguin42> diddledan: I think it's a power-limit imposed to limit the required PSU size
<arsen> czajkowski  - thanks for the mongoDB link :)
<Rory> Anyone in Leeds want to go to this tomorrow? http://www.leedsdevops.org.uk/post/67145731550/meetup-tuesday-26th-november-2013-at-the-central
<TwistedLucidity> Whatever way it works, I'm just happy it works! Means I need to keep the Windows partition for some games, but I guess I can bear that until things improve
<arsen> also czajkowski - there's a DBA course for sysadmins i guess - https://education.mongodb.com/courses/10gen/M102/2013_December/about
<andyc> How come this doesn't compile?  I seem to have messed something up with the initialiser list.. http://ideone.com/9554Kr
<czajkowski> arsen: yup but not started yet
<arsen> yeah i registered my interest, may as well!
<andyc> Oh never mind I didn't realise I had to write a default constructor
<andyc> Am I allowed to use this in an initialiser list like that?
<andyc> Ooopss sorry every spamming the wrong channel :(
<czajkowski> for those in Edinburgh http://www.meetup.com/MongoDB-Edinburgh/events/152065532/
<mungbean> gilmore girls is the worst programme ever...
<mungbean> i think i hate it as much as eastenders
<popey> never seen it
<mungbean> it gives me a stomach ache. my wife is watching it but if i want to use the laptop on the sofa i must silently bear it
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://reviews.cnet.com/best-noise-canceling-headphones/
<mungbean> almost time to pick the boy from nursery. days off fly by so fast
<mungbean> tgrying to write a christmas list :(
<penguin42> mungbean: Chocolate
<popey> my amazon wish list is my christmas list
<MartijnVdS> same here
<MartijnVdS> I maintain it thoughout the year by adding things to it.. sometimes buying a few items
<popey> ditto
<czajkowski> popey: wish I could get Jon to do that
<popey> i always add some random cheap stuff to it too
<popey> in case people have a low budget for pressies
<czajkowski> trying to do his Christmas shopping is a royal pita, how do you buy the geek that buys stuff anyways :/
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Condiment-Gun-Shaped-Dispenser/dp/B001FRNNNS
<popey> i want that, but wifey says she doesn't want it in the house
<penguin42> czajkowski: Chocolate
<popey> czajkowski: does he have a quadcopter?
<czajkowski> penguin42: we have a bookers card
<czajkowski> :) we buy lots in :)
<czajkowski> popey: he does in fact
<czajkowski> never uses it
<popey> hah, blimey
<czajkowski> he bought one via kickstarter
<popey> buy him a donkey for a child in an african poverty stricken country
<popey> it'll get way more use
<czajkowski> popey: this is true
<czajkowski> christmas our anniversay and valentines all within 8 weeks
<czajkowski> so I may do a t-shirt hell or think geek order
<czajkowski> he loves t-shirts
<mungbean> most things i want are not on amazon
<popey> threadless are good too
<mungbean> shirt.woot.com is good
<popey> http://www.threadless.com/catalog/style,tees/type,guys/view,24/order,popular/line,threadless
<popey> some great ones there now
<popey> http://www.threadless.com/product/5369/I_Have_a_Bike/tab,guys/style,shirt like that
<popey> \o/ bacon http://www.threadless.com/product/5004/Magic_Bacon_Ride/tab,guys/style,shirt
<mungbean> gonna get fatrher in law this one
<mungbean> http://shirt.woot.com/offers/things-waiting-in-the-darkness
<mungbean> the models on threadless put me off, i can't get past it
<czajkowski> threadless I like a lot but the quality of t-shirts does vairy
<czajkowski> if only he liked dr.Who I'd be so sorted to buying stuff
<czajkowski> alas he's not :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: that's disgraceful dump him
<MooDoo> it's the in thing to do i'm dumping my wife for her best friend as she is a geek and likes sci fi, my wife doesn't lol
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<GentileBen> à² _________________à² 
<MooDoo> I am joking folks lol
<penguin42> Riiiiggghhht
<GentileBen> MooDooBooPooLoo
<Seeker`> woo, monty python tickets booked
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: how? they were sold out in 40 seconds
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: the first date was sold out in 40 seconds
<Seeker`> they added another 4
<Seeker`> and I actually booked them around 1130, but I've only just got round to IRC / just recieved the confirmtation email
<Seeker`> by the time I got to the front of the online queue, almost all of the 5 dates had sold out
<bigcalm> davmor2: new gpg key ask I didn't have a backup to restore from after my SSD died
<bigcalm> s/ask/as
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ouch
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I've learnt from my ways
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you could ask the NSA for a copy
<dvrr> haiiiiiiiiiii
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: Doh, why didn't I think of that?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: about to make a truecrypt usb flash drive of my keys that will live in the safe
<bigcalm> Humm. I wonder which is a more lasting format: CD/DVD or USB flash drive
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: either way, refresh every few years
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so put it in your google calendar ;)
<penguin42> bigcalm: Well I have a 17year old CD I can read - but I don't know if a modern CD would last that long
<bigcalm> Both physically and likely to be compatible with systems in the future
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: CDs are on the way out though, for PCs
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: USB will be around for a while
<bigcalm> I guess refreshing is the way to go
<bigcalm> And I agree about lack of optical drives in devices doesn't give it a long future
<diddledan> truecrypt it then put it on the cloud
<diddledan> just hope it never rains
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: friend just tried to buy some tickets, only the Â£ 495 meet+greet ones left
<penguin42> Seeker`: He could try and haggle....
<shauno> I just found a server called spongebob :/
<shauno> bah, that wasn't meant to go here
<TheOpenSourcerer> So where's squarepants then?
<shauno> heh, it's there too
<shauno> but I was just mashing up/enter trying to reconnect.  finally figured out my mifi was being dodgy because I forgot to plug it in, so the wee battery was wheezing
<Myrtti> tempted to get the Morphy Richards multicooker
<mungbean> i used to watch monty python as a kid, but the reunion fills me with meh
<popey> ditto
<popey> I'd rather re-listen to their old stuff
<mungbean> it'll be much the same i guess
<mungbean> nostalgia pays
<arsen> i'm keen, what if it's good? :)
<penguin42> then there's youtube
<daftykins> my my, being asked to find a decent ultrabook in black for ~Â£600 is tough
 * penguin42 hands daftykins a pot of black paint
<penguin42> daftykins: What are your criteria for decent?
<daftykins> at least an intel i5, preferably greater than 4GB RAM although it looks like it won't happen, plus an SSD or a large HDD with small SSD cache drive combo
<daftykins> few manufacturers have even moved to Haswell so far
<penguin42> daftykins: http://www.amazon.co.uk/ATIV-Book-Lite-Quad-Core-NP905S3G-K02UK/dp/B00G3YIJXC/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1385402348&sr=1-2&keywords=samsung+ativ+book ?
<daftykins> yeah those are the ones i'm avoiding, as the "quad-core" processor is some netbook-esque AMD APU as best i can tell
<arsen> i played with someone's toshiba one last night, was nice.
<arsen> equally i've had my hands on a fujitsu one which claims to be the thinnest or something.
<daftykins> arsen: AMD APU jobby?
<arsen> that was very nice.
<penguin42> daftykins: Hmm yeh it's only the none 'lite' ones that are a better CPU
<daftykins> *nod*
<arsen> http://www.toshiba.co.uk/laptops/business-computing/ultrabook/
<arsen> it looked like that, i cnat find the spec tho. i'm more saying that i picked it up and it was surprisingly light, rather than recommending it :P
<daftykins> :)
<arsen> if it were me, Â£600 is a refurbed mac air :p
<penguin42> daftykins: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pavilion-14-b107sa-i5-3337U-Processor-Windows/dp/B00B65PTGI/ref=sr_1_23?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1385402553&sr=1-23&keywords=ultrabook  ?
<penguin42> not that ultra though from the shape
<arsen> seen that website about laptop failure statistics?
<daftykins> it doesn't look too bad!
<mungbean> popey: Myrtti what's the name of those special flight socks please?
<daftykins> penguin42: good find :)
<arsen> 24% of HP laptops fail inside of 3 years i think.
<Myrtti> mungbean: nabee
<mungbean> thanks :D
<daftykins> although "dispatched within 1 to 2 months" - doh!
<arsen> http://www.statisticbrain.com/laptop-malfunction-rates/
<daftykins> haha ouch
 * penguin42 would like an 'itsfailed' site where you can log when you buy something and when it fails
<arsen> i'd be buying asus/tosh/sony/apple personally :P
<daftykins> yeah if only i could find something apt
<daftykins> this is for the boss' kid who wants something matte black ideally ;/
<arsen> what's the requirements?
<arsen> so form over function :D
<daftykins> seems that way - he's got a chunky Sony at the moment
<daftykins> with an SSD and RAM upgrade in it it would probably be fine, but it's looking likely he's after something that looks modern
<arsen> http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Lenovo-IdeaPad-S500-Touch-59372927-Ultrabook.101433.0.html
<arsen> i really wish they wouldnt stick stickers on laptops in the inside, it looks so cheap
<penguin42> arsen: Curious that the graphic and numbers don't match on that failure stats page
<penguin42> arsen: The asus blob is for 12% but the table says 15.6
<arsen> weird. yeah i see.
<arsen> daftykins  - matt black, modern and well rated - http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon/
<daftykins> haha yeah, doesn't meet the Â£6-700 target sadly
<arsen> gona struggle with SSD/lots of ram for that budget, especially if choosey about appearance.
<daftykins> http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/ideapad/u-series/u330-touch/
<daftykins> ooh hello
<daftykins> how have i not seen this one before
<penguin42> that does fit - bit low res, but does fit the price
<daftykins> yeah nasty ol' 1366 - i figure you'll only get a full HD panel in something premium
<arsen> played any games recently daftykins ?
<daftykins> mostly playing GTA V with friends on the 360 lately
<arsen> dare i suggest it: http://store.apple.com/uk/product/FD711B/A/refurbished-116-inch-macbook-air-13ghz-dual-core-intel-core-i5
<daftykins> apparently he doesn't want Apple :o i was shocked
<arsen> if its me, i'd go lenovo if not apple, and nothing else :/ not a huge fan of laptops so i'm picky.
<MartijnVdS> the Dell developer edition Ubuntu laptops â¥
<arsen> yeah encourage ubuntu :D
<arsen> time to cycle home. :)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> oh wow, that Lenovo Ideapad U330 Touch is Â£556 excluding VAT
<daftykins> that gives room for an SSD and RAM upgrade mayhaps
<penguin42> oh you didn't say you were cheating by going for ex-vat
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> \o/
<popey> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=346134.msg3709913#msg3709913
<popey> golly
<MartijnVdS> whoa
<daftykins> but what's it earning? :)
<MartijnVdS> bitcoins 8-)
<daftykins> in value terms
<penguin42> popey: Serious rack-pr0n - the cabling is a bit wacky
<penguin42> and what - 3x3 phase/rack - although can't quite tell current
<diddledan> it almost sounds fake
<diddledan> but.. these chinese, you can't trust them to fabricate anything convincingly, so it might just be real!
<ali1234> daftykins: about $15,000 per day
<diddledan> ouch
<daftykins> which dollar?
<ali1234> USD
<daftykins> crikey
<diddledan> per DAY?!
<diddledan> I wonder how much their running and startup costs come to
<daftykins> my thoughts exactly
<ali1234> one block found = $15,000
<ali1234> the whole network is minting about $2M worth of bitcoins every day
<ali1234> asicminer funded their startup by allowing people to invest
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: wasn't asicminer a scam company that took the money AND didn't send the ASICs?
<ali1234> no, that was butterfly labs
<ali1234> anyone else think it's funny how all the bitcoin scams come out of USA, while all the ones that are real come out of china and russia
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> that's because the americans haven't got jobs so they want the quickcash whereas the chinese and russians realised that the real con is to go long-term and pump+dump the value of the BTC :-p
<diddledan> it's like a stock market scam
 * MartijnVdS is waiting for the big drop
<Myrtti> for Plex users, their Android app has a sale, it's on at Â£1.23 now in Google Play
<diddledan> what's the app do?
<diddledan> I know plex on the pc side
<Myrtti> acts as an Android remote control and player
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> wow i just had a "wtf" moment going to dial a # on my Nexus 4 for the first time since the KitKat update
<daftykins> i had no idea what i was staring at :D
<daftykins> kinda cool it resolving numbers to companies and that now though
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it does it the other way too
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: if a company calls you, and that company has a Google profile with their number on it, you'll see their name instead of just the number
<diddledan> that's useful. or rather it would be if the CLID couldn't be spoofed
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00FSBF0K6?m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=iduk-21
<daftykins> this appears to be quite the winner so far
<diddledan> it's nice to get a human readable name instead of just a random number, but you still have the issue with number-spoofing
<daftykins> ja
<diddledan> daftykins: sweet discount
<daftykins> huh?
<diddledan> down from Â£799.99 to a measly Â£799.95
<daftykins> Â£670 delivered to Guernsey :O
<diddledan> that's wow
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> meh, you're looking without the vat
<diddledan> damn foreigners
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: have him order it for you ;)
<daftykins> who?
<diddledan> "him"
<MartijnVdS> uh wait
<daftykins> who is him :(
<diddledan> THE "him"
<MartijnVdS> I'm confused
<daftykins> i'm the tax dodging islander
<MartijnVdS> Which one of ( diddledan, daftykins ) is ordering the laptop
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> there is only one "him" and he comes once a year on the 25th
<MartijnVdS> and which one is in Guernsey?
<daftykins> well i'm shopping for someone right now
<daftykins> and i'm the Guern :>
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIM_(Finnish_band)
<diddledan> daftykins: is the foreigner
<diddledan> --:
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: order one for diddledan as well then :P
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> he'd have to pay VAT at the post office :(
<diddledan> not if you give it to me as a gift
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: just bring it on your next "business trip" to the UK
<MartijnVdS> the mainland*
<MartijnVdS> "Yeah that's my laptop"
<shauno> *the motherland
<daftykins> dem mainlanders
<MartijnVdS> DER HEIMAT
<diddledan> <insert nasty-party joke here>
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: they call it that now? The "nasty-party"?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I do to get around draconian bots that insist that nazi is a bad word
<diddledan> namely over on a different server
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Well, anti-ukipers could use it too
<diddledan> eww @ ukid
<diddledan> evil evil people them
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "nasty party, that"
<diddledan> I like how a known racist in america found out he's part african
<daftykins> hehehe
<MartijnVdS> oops!
<MartijnVdS> well, self-hatred is a thing
<diddledan> as in too much african that his own dna purity scale would exclude him
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: hitler didn't have blue eyes and blonde hair either
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: bleach
<daftykins> gotta run, time for food and what not
<daftykins> ta-ra \o
<MartijnVdS> \o
<spiritech> hi. i am having problems with the mini.iso netinstall. the installation was complete, however when i try to boot the hdd nothing happens. the only way i can get it to boot is by booting from the usb stick which in turn boots the hdd.
<MartijnVdS> spiritech: sounds like the bootloader never got installed (correctly)
<MartijnVdS> spiritech: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair looks like it might help solve the problem
<spiritech> can i fix this at this stage, or do i have to do a new install.
<spiritech> could it be something to do with the grub being in the wrong place?
<spiritech> i will have a look at your link now.
<MartijnVdS> possibly. Or it could be that your machine is set to boot from UEFI only, and Ubuntu was installed in a non-UEFI way (or the other way around, but that's rarer)
<directhex> i met something horrifying yesterday
<directhex> you know how there's "CSM", which is a compatibility layer for UEFI, allowing a UEFI motherboard to boot BIOS-style for legacy OSes?
<spiritech> something must have changed on the usb, as i can no longer run the net install process.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I've heard of something like that
<MartijnVdS> spiritech: that might be where it installed the bootloader then 8-)
<spiritech> can i fix that manually?
<MartijnVdS> uhh
<directhex> MartijnVdS, THE REVERSE EXISTS
<MartijnVdS> directhex: an UEFI environment that boots from a BIOS-style bootsector?
<spiritech> by moving the files. or is it more complex than that?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: why am I not surprised
<directhex> MartijnVdS, evil from the nether realm, allowing a BIOS motherboard to boot UEFI-only boot loaders and OSes.
<diddledan> it was developed by intel, directhex
<MartijnVdS> spiritech: re-create the boot CD, or do whatever that web page suggests :)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: what's it called? :)
<spiritech> ok.
<directhex> MartijnVdS, it's a per-vendor thing. Gigabyte calls it "Hybrid EFI Technology"
<spiritech> does anyone know when ubuntu 13.10 will be added to Unetbootin list?
<diddledan> directhex: it's based on tianocore
<directhex> diddledan, part of it.
<spiritech> or is there a way i can add it myself. by giving Unetbootin the url?
<directhex> diddledan, it's still just an Award 6.00 BIOS underneath
<diddledan> directhex: yes, the tianocore is designed to run that way
<directhex> diddledan, not really
<diddledan> sorry, I appear to be wrong - it's based on the subsection of tianocore called "duet" or "DuetPkg"
<directhex> yep
<directhex> it's an EFI emulator, running on top of 16-bit Award BIOS
<diddledan> yeah, I've got it on my desktop (which I rarely use)
 * MartijnVdS tries to remember when the first "configurable" BIOSes came out
<MartijnVdS> our XT clone didn't have it
<MartijnVdS> our 486 did
<diddledan> in the form of Gigabyte's HybridEFI
<MartijnVdS> my 386 had 1 or 2 options to configure
<directhex> diddledan, my dad's PC was bricked. turns out Hybrid EFI does *NOT* like EFI-booted Windows 7 trying to hibernate
<penguin42> how bricked?
<directhex> appeared to be totally bricked (no POST at all). but resetting the CMOS resurrected it
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: my Amstrad PC1512 had a form of configuration backed up by a 4xAA battery - it was stored in NVRAM - so when the battery died then the settings were wiped
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yeah, the XT did have some memory -- it kept the time
<directhex> diddledan, which board is it?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: but it didn't have a "Press DEL to configure"-like screens (yet)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: then again, it only had 640kb RAM ;)
<diddledan> directhex: FXA990-UD5 I seem to recall
<directhex> diddledan, i discovered that gigabyte had posted a "beta" bios update which completely replaces the Award BIOS w/ Hybrid evil, with a full native UEFI
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: right, the NVRAM needed to be set in the DOS
<diddledan> directhex: really?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: gigabyte is a bit weird like that
<diddledan> directhex: that sounds interesting
<penguin42> directhex: Interesting, that's pretty nasty
<MartijnVdS> I have this: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4514#ov
<MartijnVdS> (and I boot it fully UEFI)
<directhex> diddledan, yes, really
<diddledan> does it work? :-p
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: did freedos on floppy/cd/usb key cover it?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, 8-series chipsets should all have real UEFI. it's the 6 and 7 series ones with "touchBIOS" which use the hybrid nonsense
<directhex> diddledan, still won't suspend, but just throws an error on resume rather than bricking. IMPROVEMENT!
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: uh, huh?
 * MartijnVdS has USB problems :(
<diddledan> hmm
<directhex> diddledan, also, full GUI/clicky setup, not ye olde blue and white
<MartijnVdS> All my USB ports are USB3 ports, and plugging in an USB2 3G modem breaks because some kind of timeout
<directhex> i have a gigabyte board in my PC, but it's too old for EFI of any kind
<diddledan> where do I find this piece of awesomeness?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: then don't do that :P
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Mine has the full GUI setup. Until you click somewhere it doesn't like, then it reverts to blue/white BIOS mode ;)
<directhex> diddledan, as far as i can tell, the limiting factor is the size of the BIOS chips on the board. if they're not 4MB, too small.
<diddledan> I think mine are 8MB
<directhex> http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3863#bios
<directhex> diddledan, looks like the FXA990-UD5 rev3 is natively UEFI, and the FXA990-UD5 rev1 is hybrid only with no update to UEFI-ify it
<diddledan> directhex: it's the version 1 that I've got :-(
<MartijnVdS> UEFIsh
<directhex> diddledan, i think it must be an AMD 990FX + issue - ALL the boards have a rev1 or rev3, with rev3 as natively UEFI and rev1 as BIOS/hybrid
<diddledan> yeah, that sucks
<directhex> looks like only a subset of intel chipsets got conversions
<directhex> not all intels, and no amds
<diddledan> I can't see any hardware differences in the spec of the two boards
<directhex> diddledan, something you can't see? like... lack of EFI versions of various firmwares?
<directhex> no idea
<MartijnVdS> a slightly larger flash chip? they don't tend to put that in bios specs..
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I think that can be the only difference
<diddledan> the rev3 bios downloads are twice the size of the rev1
<diddledan> 2.88MB vs 1.12MB
<diddledan> sorry, 1.18MB (what's 600KB between friends?!)
<diddledan> nope, 60KB
<MartijnVdS> 2.88MB? ED 3.5" disks? :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> meh, I can't count
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ls -h ;)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> ls -h is awesome
<shauno> ls --si is awkward :/
<diddledan> ls: illegal option -- -
<MartijnVdS> shauno: 1000 instead of 1024?
<shauno> yeah
<diddledan> -s = sort by size, -i = print inode number
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: --si vs -si
<diddledan> --si doens't work
<shauno> if '-' is an illegal option, you don't have longopts, hence you're using bsd's ls
<MartijnVdS> bsd ls is evil
<diddledan> shauno: you should know I'm using a mac
<MartijnVdS> "ls *.c -la" vs "ls -la *.c"
<MartijnVdS> BSD find is also evil
<MartijnVdS> "find -name blah" errors, you HAVE to say "find . -name blah"
<shauno> yeah, it always tells me off for trying to put -maxdepth in the wrong place.  positional something something monkey
<MartijnVdS> it knows what you want/mean -- it's there's no ambiguity
<MartijnVdS> but let's NOT do it anyway
<diddledan> bsd sucks for not just using gnu
<shauno> although, one thing I do love about BSD .. the manpages never tell you to do 'info foo invocation'
<diddledan> <3
<diddledan> yeah, I never worked out how to work info
<diddledan> it always seemed to load the same page no matter what I typed on the CLI
<shauno> I'm fairly convinced you're not meant to.  it feels like someone well placed really should have been working for oreilly instead
<diddledan> does that mean that o'reilly books are impossible to read, too?!
<shauno> it's a shame old games are still iffy.  if someone would mate retropie & archive.org I'd mail them hugs
<ali1234> we need to stamp out info
<ali1234> it's blatantly rubbish
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: convince GNU...
<MartijnVdS> Debian has been trying for years
<diddledan> I think part of the problem is the GNU project insist everything MUST be GPL licensed so they invent replacements for perfectly good things just becasue they're not licensed under the GPL
<shauno> s/problem/point/ ?
<diddledan> s/GNU project/dick stallman/ ?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they don't accept licenses with *more* freedoms than GPL
<diddledan> I've heard it argued, impressively, that the BSD license is better for opensource
<MartijnVdS> BSD or MIT
<diddledan> yeah, they're very similar
<diddledan> I think the only difference is the attribution restrictions on which entity you're not allowed to claim affiliation with
<shauno> sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.  it's never as clear cut as those with vested interests pretend
<diddledan> i.e. berkeley uni vs massechusets (sp?) uni
<diddledan> meh, let's move MIT to michigan, I can spell that
<shauno> eg, forcing linksys down a path where they had to let you all in was quite handy.  BSD wouldn't have done that
<diddledan> yes, that was pretty useful
<shauno> the bsd licence is really, really useful for reference implementations though. eg, half the world taking pointers form bsd's network stack, the jpeg licence (which apparently isn't bsd, but I can't tell the difference ..)
<diddledan> I just spotted a GLSA (Gentoo security) that announced an issue in fcron of being susceptible to symlink attacks (I presume that's replacing a file with a symlink to gain access to what you're not allowed) - surely those sort of attacks should be prevented by the kernel, not each individual app?
<diddledan> half the world? I thought the whole world was running off bsd network stack
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: partially
<diddledan> certainly all windows are and all os xs are
<shauno> I'm not actually sure windows still are.  but they certainly spread it far and wide enough that it'd be basically impossible to try "our tcp implementation is *almost* compatible with yours" now
<shauno> (as much as Apple try .. heh)
<diddledan> almost?
<diddledan> I read that argument as "it's impossible to argue that we're not good enough"
<diddledan> it's either that or "it's impossible to argue that we will ever be good enough"
<shauno> I think that just depends how big & ugly you are.  look at the "browser wars".  you can get a long way with being 'almost' compatible with each other
<penguin42> diddledan: Yes the kernel will stop obvious symlink problems, it's the more subtle problems - e.g. if you look at it once and then look again or something like that - do you have a link to the advisory?
<diddledan> penguin42: http://www.gentoo.org/security/en/glsa/glsa-201311-16.xml
<penguin42> diddledan: Hmm it doesn't say much
<shauno> http://www.shmoo.com/mail/bugtraq/feb01/msg00271.shtml  seems like interesting reading
<shauno> ah, nm, just noticed the date :)
<diddledan> even a "race condition" should be handled by the kernel, surely? i.e. my pseudo code: open file, kernel prevents file change, check file isn't a symlink, read file, close file
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: no, it can't
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: because then the kernel would have to analyze *every* file access to see if something else tried to look at the symlink earlier
<MartijnVdS> the program should use atomic replace/link creation functions
<diddledan> isn't that what file locks are for, i.e. something the kernel is supposed to support?!
<MartijnVdS> and proper randomness
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: nah, locks are advisory, not forced
<penguin42> diddledan: So the classic examples are you figure out that something will read a file with a given name, you can put anything you like in that file, so it seems safe because it only reads what you put there - but if you put a symlink at there to something else, and it reads that as root then it lets you read an arbitrary file
<MartijnVdS> so it's either "breaking POSIX" or "take care when writing programs with temp files"
<diddledan> so it's "broken by design" IMO
<MartijnVdS> possibly, but it prevents the "windows failure mode" of not being able to remove/replace a file when something has it open
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh I mean it's just a bug where it's accessing a file in some way without checking it by the sounds of it
<penguin42> diddledan: In a way symlinks break a lot of basic assumptions that you might reasonably make, so it means you have to think a lot more
<diddledan> the kernel or the libc should give you some sugar surely tho?
<MartijnVdS> if programs use modern APIs things will work -- the most modern versions of libc have functions that do The Right Thing, and things that can't work reliably are officially discouraged
<diddledan> aaha
<penguin42> diddledan: Well you can use 'stat' to figure out if you're dealing with a symlink
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: sure, but that's not atomic
<penguin42> yep
<diddledan> surely stat will suffer the same problem?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you can stat(), then open.. but in the meantime, someone could replace the file with a link
<diddledan> i.e. stat file <-- not a symlink, someone nasty replaces file, open file <-- symlink
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: there are flags for "open()" that prevent that
<penguin42> ah yeh O_NOFOLLOW
<diddledan> and this is why concurrency makes clever peoples' brains melt :-p
<shauno> can't you stat a filehandle?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you can, but then you'd have to open it first
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Which you can now do with O_PATH
<MartijnVdS> shauno: fstat
<shauno> right, but opening it isn't the issue.  it's trusting what you've opened
<MartijnVdS> true
<shauno> so open it, run your sanity check against the filehandle rather than the file, and continue if they pass.  anything that happens on disk after the open doesn't matter
<diddledan> as a random aside: why can't I get chrome to like bugs.gentoo.org's ssl cert?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that works for reading, but for writing/truncating you might want to check earlier :)
<MartijnVdS> O_EXCL etc.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: works for me
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ah, CACert
<diddledan> yeah, I've installed CACert's public key
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it's a CACert certificate, maybe you don't trust them?
<diddledan> it seems they're using a different intermediary than is listed on cacert.org
<diddledan> the cert I installed expires 20 May 2021, but the one that bugs.gentoo.org seems to present expires 28 March 2033
<diddledan> https://cacert.org works fine, but https://bugs.gentoo.org gives me a cert validation error
<diddledan> i.e. the red "get me out of here" page
<popey> https://bugs.gentoo.org/ doesnt fail for me
<popey> fine in chromium, only fails in ff
<diddledan> fails in both chrome and safari for me
<diddledan> if it fails in firefox for you, can you get it working at all? because that's where I'm failing - I cannot get it to recognise the chain from cacert.org's root certificate to bugs.gentoo.org's cert
<diddledan> the failing node is the class 3 intermediate certificate
<Myrtti> has this been here yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMYfkOtYYlg
<diddledan> Myrtti: fun
<shauno> wow.  imagemagick is *really* slow on the pi
<popey> wow, thats great Myrtti
<diddledan> shauno: it's not hardware accelerated, that's why
<ali1234> wasn't CACert the one that got hacked, and then dropped by mozilla?
<ali1234> no apparently not. they've never been included in mozilla
<directhex> CAcert isn't included in any major browser, but is in most major linux distros
<directhex> CAcert is kinda "free software hippie" in its approach, i.e. it's gratis and volunteery, not based on mailing your passport scans to israel and giving them free reign over your credit card like other much more trustworthy hosts
<popey> hmm, lost the battery cover for our virgin media box remote
<popey> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=346134.msg3709913#msg3709913
<gordonjcp> hm
<gordonjcp> I appear to have both gordonjcp@gjcp.net and gordon@gjcp.net registered with CACert, but no idea what the passphrase is
<gordonjcp> and I don't recognise any of the security questions
<popey> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
<popey> 13 mins till launch
<popey> oh, counter stopped?
<diddledan> popey:  needs commentary
<diddledan> oh dear, it sprung a leak
<popey> keeps buffering here
<diddledan> do we know what the payload is?
<diddledan> aah, SES 8
<popey> some random satellite
<directhex> SES has satellites worldwide, hard to say where this'll end up broadcasting
<diddledan> the info in the top post says "The SES-8 telecommunications satellite is an Orbital Sciences GEOStar-2 spacecraft that will provide communications coverage of the South Asia and Asia Pacific regions. This hybrid Ku- and Ka-band spacecraft weighs 3,138 kg (6,918 lbs) at launch."
<penguin42> I thought this was their first attempt at a geostationary
<diddledan> "SES-8 will be SpaceXâs first launch to a geostationary transfer orbit â 80,000 km from Earth â and most challenging mission to date. Launch window opens at 5:37pm EST on Monday."
<diddledan> nice that it's a commercial entity doing it rather than a national body
<shauno> I just hope it doesn't have to be either/or.  handing off the 'haulage' so NASA can worry about getting me to Mars - awesome.  handing it over so they can quit paying NASA .. less awesome
<diddledan> oh dear
<diddledan> that doesn't sound healthy
<diddledan> "I can't work out what it started"
<diddledan> we're just about to hit scheduled time
<diddledan> so we're not three minutes over
<diddledan> now*
<ali1234> http://time.is/EST
<diddledan> ali1234: it's due to fire at 23:30 GMT/UTC
<diddledan> it's now 23:31
<ali1234> by my clock it's 23:35
<ali1234> why is my clock really wrong??
<diddledan> Mon Nov 25 23:32:06 GMT 2013
<penguin42> you're not running ntp?
<ali1234> yeah but why not?
<penguin42> ali1234: Is it that you just got too far out, I don't think the daemon will correct a swing bigger than a certain limit?
<ali1234> no, for some reason xubuntu doesn't install ntpd
<directhex> http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/25/commercial-steambox-prototype/
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-26
<penguin42> what happened to the cool extruded thing that the steam guys were showing around ages ago?
<shauno> the tiny almost-cube one?
<penguin42> nod that looked kind of neat
<diddledan> that wasn't steam
<diddledan> it was a 4letter name beginning with q?
<penguin42> but I thought that was around the time they were first talking about steam stuff?
<diddledan> nope, ouya
<penguin42> no, it's not ouya I was thinking of
<shauno> these were showing up a lot last time around; http://www.xi3.com/store/system?model=piston
<penguin42> yeh that's the one I was thinking of
<shauno> cute, but the price tag is unrealistic and it's just not going to fit a graphics card that'll keep steam happy, I think
<Seeker`> what do you think would keep steam happy?
<diddledan> well they put a titan in their demo box
<Seeker`> most people don't need a titan
<penguin42> http://www.xi3.com/servers/microserv3r-data-server  wth is the netowrk connector on there?
<diddledan> penguin42: why or where? for where: top left
<shauno> top left is ethernet.  right of that is .. curious
<diddledan> coult the "network" port be fiber?
<Seeker`> wireless module?>
<shauno> a little tiny window so you can peek inside, because "the network is the computer" ?
<Seeker`> it has 4 usb 2 ports, 4 usb 3, 4 esata, 1 ethernet, 2 3.5mm audio, 1 DP/HDMI, 1 mini DP, 1 SPDIF
<Seeker`> only thing left on the specs is "1 â Wireless optional (802.11a/b/g/n or Bluetooth)"
<shauno> and yeah, most people don't need a spaceheater of a gpu
<Seeker`> shauno: I imagine most people would be happy with ipad-level graphics
<Seeker`> which is a tiny GPU
<shauno> but if you think that for the vast majority of steam's userbase, you can safely assume they already have something PCish for their current usage
<penguin42> I don't think that's an SFP/fibre module shape is it? Maybe it is
<Seeker`> People that care about high-end gaming have an xbox/ps/PC, so a small device like that is probably aimed at the market which plays games on tablets etc.
<Seeker`> or wii
<shauno> I'd imaging that creates a gap where I'm not sure I'd pay high-dollar amounts for a degraded experience.  it better at least match what I'm already rocking
<diddledan> no it's not sfp
<diddledan> "would have an xbox/ps" <-- the steam box is supposed to replace those
<Seeker`> really?
<diddledan> yes, really.
<diddledan> they want to game in the living room using the steam platform instead of whatever else you currently use
<diddledan> Seeker`: the point is they want games like crysis 57 to run on it
<Seeker`> crysis 57 would need about 500 titans :P
<diddledan> or whatever the most demanding game du jour is
<penguin42> all the boxes are just PCs now anyway
<diddledan> anyway, it's bedtime
<shauno> "ipad graphics" only really works places where the software is designed for them. valve's own titles wouldn't work on something like that
<shauno> of course, half the fun is that they're leaving the hardware up to everyone else.  so if there's a market for tiny boxes, there's nothing stopping them
<Seeker`> shauno: why do you think valve's titles wouldn't work?
<ali1234> because they have good graphics?
<ali1234> nobody is going to buy a steambox to play games from 5 years ago
 * penguin42 doesn't think the steambox would have low end graphics
<shauno> from my pov, because I'm totally used to seeing titles on Steam for OSX, and apple's appstore, flat out tell you not to bother if you're on the integrated chipsets
<shauno> it's gonna be gutsy trying to push an ecosystem that'll only play their linux titles, let alone shooting themselves in the other foot too
<shauno> not that I'm complaining - I'm hoping they pull it off, because it should make cross-platform a lot more attractive for publishers.  but I don't think they're trying to compete with the ouya.  steam's target market are gamers
<directhex> that's an SFP port
<daftykins> contempt: all i have is contempt for you
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> huhu
<SuperMatt> http://imgur.com/gallery/7OQpkkJ when computers figure this out, we're screwed
<diddledan> lol
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: uh oh, don't give them idea!
<MartijnVdS> s
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning
<popey> pip pip
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ladar/lavabits-dark-mail-initiative # looks like that isn't going to succeed
<jussi> SuperMatt: that is so 1985... :P all they have to do now is plug themselves in...
<popey> hah, love that cartoon
<Myrtti> ih http://gizmodo.com/5634257/ikea-let-loose-a-herd-of-100-cats-into-store-to-see-what-happens
<Myrtti> popey: miracles have happened before
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great video Myrtti :-)
<Myrtti> popey: if the video were any better I might even contribute but as of now it's TL;DW
<popey> i haven't because I'm unconvinced it would be useful to anyone to open source that project
<popey> vs adding features to other products
<dwatkins> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dwatkins> d'oh, Windows wants to reboot, little does it know that it's not the default OS. I guess I'll have to let it reboot, and change the grub order.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Windows never expects other OSes to be there, somehow
<dwatkins> (I'm 5 miles away from the PC)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: how arrogant of it
<dwatkins> ...and there it goes - stupid updater forcing me to restart mumble...mumble...
<dwatkins> I wouldn't normally mind, but I'm in the process of uploading a bunch of stuff to Bitcasa.
<dwatkins> ...or at least I was
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyb6xqiZDPw ?
<dwatkins> haha yeah
<dwatkins> I've only left it running Windows 8 because there's no Linux client for Bitcasa.
<MartijnVdS> what's bitcasa?
<dwatkins> Infinite storage based on Amazon Web Services.
<MartijnVdS> bitcoin storage?
<dwatkins> You install the application and it maps a network drive with a capacity of 8 Exabytes.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: https://code.google.com/p/s3fs/
<dwatkins> interesting, I wonder how much they will charge me for storing 5 TB on there.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I store several 100 GB of raw photos on glacier
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's $2.50/month
<MartijnVdS> but S3 is more expensive
<MartijnVdS> like $7/month or something
<MartijnVdS> so maybe $20 for you?
<dwatkins> Bitcasa was $99 a year, but then they changed their pricing model, it's ten times as much for infinite storage now!
<dwatkins> Thankfully I signed-up before the price hike.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: S3 is expensive.. $0.095 for the first TB/month
<dwatkins> wow yeah
<MartijnVdS> 0.080/TB/month for the next 49TB
<dwatkins> http://www.clearpathsg.com/backup-AWS-S3-Calculator tells me I'd be paying $512 a month!
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: glad I'm using glacier then -- it's not instant-access, but it's not super expensive either ;)
<dwatkins> That was the thing with Bitcasa, it was cheaper than continuing to buy new hard drives.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Shopping Reminder Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Shopping Reminder? Sounds like Americans who don't want to get crushed to death on Black Friday ;)
<dwatkins> damn, I didn't untick the "install updates automatically" and now I have IE 11 which doesn't work with the system I need it for
<dwatkins> so much for having a VM dedicated to using this
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: or "buy your thanksgiving stuff NAO"
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, good point!
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.modern.ie
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Microsoft offers VMs with all kinds of Internet Explorers on all kinds of Windowses
<directhex> MartijnVdS, explicitly distributing VBox images for use on linux. blimey.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, unfortunately I don't have control of the VMWare server, otherwise I'd just put that in place
<Myrtti> on the concept of reminding to shop
<Myrtti> right now, on Amazon.co.uk http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DSNWM2K/
<MartijnVdS> directhex: yeah, I was surprised as well.. but I'm not complaining ;)
 * dwatkins uninstalls IE 11 and wishes there was a feedback button to swear at them with
<MartijnVdS> directhex: and it's official/supported by Microsoft as well!
<dwatkins> Can you do other stuff with those VMs?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: not a lot, I guess
<dwatkins> I assumed they would be locked-down, or a 180-day trial
<dwatkins> I treated this VM as an application, since I remote-desktop to it I can switch between it and other apps, and it's not dependant on how busy my laptop is
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: some are trials, but they explicitly allow you to re-install
<dwatkins> occasioanlly I do stuff with it, like write a script to kill and restart rdpclip (known bug)
<dwatkins> hopefully http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/ie-10-worldwide-languages will do what I need
<TheOpenSourcerer> Talking of shopping & Christmas etc... Has anyone got one of those insulated travel mugs that you use in the car that has an "anti-spillage" feature?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: anti-spill?
<TheOpenSourcerer> anti-leak then.
<popey> dunno what that means â»
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've seen some on Amazon etc. but have no idea of they are any good or not. It's for a xmas pressie.
<popey> I mean, I have a travel mug
<popey> url?
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you drop it or it falls out of the car holder does your coffee leak out or not?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: like http://www.amazon.co.uk/BESTEK-Stainless-Insulated-container-BTVT550/dp/B00AX0Y7OW you mean?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.witt-international.co.uk/products/leak-proof-travel-mug/_/A-98B193_
<popey> oh sure, it will yeah
<popey> but i dont drop it
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Not quite, that's really a thermos that you can drink from if you undo the lid a bit.
<TheOpenSourcerer> See the link I posted
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh reading a bit more MartijnVdS that might be OK actually...
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: the description is very similar to the one you posted
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: but I don't see how it's both "always leak-proof" and "quarter twist to drink"
<TheOpenSourcerer> This one looks like the mutt's nutts
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermos-Genuine-Stainless-Leak-Proof-Travel/dp/B00719NIG6/ref=pd_cp_kh_3
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Built-in tea hook, easily holds tea bags and most loose leaf infusers" This will impress my wife as she drinks gallons of tea...
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: leak proof: http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_5?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=sippy%20cup&sprefix=sippy%2Caps%2C175&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Asippy%20cup
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that one is awesome, with the tea bit :) have to remember that for my tea-loving friends :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, "sippy cups" isn't quite what was I was after ;-)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: they're leak-proof ;)
<MartijnVdS> maybe they have thermos sippy cups 8-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not insulated
<MartijnVdS> http://www.thermos.com/product_catalog.aspx?CatCode=Foog
<dwatkins> there we go, IE 11 uninstalled, and IE 10 works with this cursed tool
<bashrc> Havn't used exploder for years
<MartijnVdS> popey: 20:15 tonight, Amazon.co.uk will have a "black friday deal" on this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DNB02S8/ref=gb1h_img_c-1_8827_cbfdbf94?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=05TFZFY0B3R2VPWNNYSE&pf_rd_i=161428031&pf_rd_p=449478827
<SuperMatt> where are you getting these from?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: go to the top right of amazon.co.uk, click "Black Friday Deals", then "Upcoming"
<SuperMatt> I never really pay any attention to the front page
<SuperMatt> go figure
<popey> MartijnVdS: ooh!
<popey> i dont actually have a sane size salt/pepper shaker
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have these: http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Salt-and-Pepper-Set-850705
<popey> hah cute
 * popey adds to wishlist
<MartijnVdS> Hmm.. Ubuntu-UK Secret Santa? ;)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: no don't suggest that, I'm arranging works and it's a fscking nightmare :D
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "Can't have X buy a present for Y or they'll mess up and it'l be drama"
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> orning
<popey> "Your Amazon.co.uk order of "2" x "D-Link DUB-H7 7 - Port USB..." has been dispatched" \o/
<brobostigon> morning
<popey> my kids would love http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BFBWQKA/
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have the blue one
<MartijnVdS> popey: several of them, actually
<popey> minifig ones?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<MartijnVdS> they also work for chocolate ;)
<popey> I have less motivation for these because our fridge has an ice making drawer
<MartijnVdS> pour in molten (pure) chocolate, stick in fridge, get chocolate minifigs!
<MartijnVdS> (dark)*
<popey> haha, good idea!
 * popey adds to wishlist
<popey> lol http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silicone-Mould-Brick-Cupcake-Decoration/dp/B008J35BY0
<popey> home effort
<Myrtti> btw there's a smaller version of yesterdays SSD on sale in an hour
<Myrtti> and TP-Link powerline starter kit at 1530
<MartijnVdS> I just got this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00C80JGGO
<MartijnVdS> to replace my aging Harmony (which has a bad battery)
<TwistedLucidity> Why does a mobile phone need a remote control?
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: it's the other way around :)
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: phone talks to black box which sends out IR to all devices
<TwistedLucidity> "Well, I found my phone but where's the remote? DAMMIT!"
<directhex> MartijnVdS, i got a netgear wifi extender yesterday, it's better rated than today's tp-link wifi range extender
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: I used to use my PalmPilot as a multi-device remote, worked really well.
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: we would have considered getting one if our AV Receiver didn't do a pretty good job on its own already
<Myrtti> well, the AV receiver remote
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: All my other remotes are *bad*
<Myrtti> yeah, so were ours
<Myrtti> just happy that we got a good remote on the av receiver
<Myrtti> the only thing I don't like about it is the Spotify app on it being a bit pants
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: oh, is it an Onkyo?
<Myrtti> yeah
<MartijnVdS> I can't control any of my other devices with my Onkyo remote :(
<MartijnVdS> well, I could control them a bit, if I enabled HDMI Control stuff
<Myrtti> to compensate with the Spotify thing being bad I bought the bluetooth thingie I linked earier
<MartijnVdS> but then it'd turn the TV on when I just want to listen to a CD ...
<Myrtti> so I can play spotify from my phone
<MartijnVdS> (yes, I "still" listen to CDs)
<bashrc> CDs are a legacy technology now.  The last time I bought one was a few years ago.
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: I still buy several each month :)
<bashrc> typically I just download MP3s - from legal sources of course - so long as there isn't any DRM attached to them
<bashrc> it's a lot more convenient than the physical media
<shauno> my consumption of DD floppies averages out to a couple a month, doesn't mean they're not legacy
<MartijnVdS> new music is still released on CD..
<bashrc> true
<bashrc> the future is here, it's just not evenly distributed
<AlanBell> shauno: what on earth are you doing with them?
<shauno> new music is still released on vinyl ;)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that *is* silly :P
<MartijnVdS> inferior analog technology!
<directhex> cd is a retro format, like vinyl
<directhex> but my car supports only CD or line-in
<MartijnVdS> mine supports bluetooth as well
<MartijnVdS> A2DP
<Myrtti> 120GB SSD http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BQ4F9ZA/
<popey> 55 quid vs 70 quid
<popey> nice
<SuperMatt> I'm finding it quite frustrating that ssd prices really haven't dipped in a while
<MooDoo> I'll be happy when 500gb ssd's are Â£100 ish
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> I think the current small sizes are the thing that's stopping gamers from buying them. If the released some relatively cheap 500s, they'd see a massive upswell in sales
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: people are still afraid of SSDs breaking quicker than spinning rust
<SuperMatt> then don't use them for important files
<SuperMatt> games, yes! all your photos ever: nuh-uh
<SuperMatt> at worst you have to redownload your games if the disk fails
<AlanBell> they fail to read-only
<AlanBell> rather than a crunchy scratchy mess
<directhex> gamers are the ones buying SSDs
<penguin42> AlanBell: Doesn't seem to always be the case - the only two people I know of whose SSDs have failed have failed to bricks
<directhex> which is why so many are gamer-centric in their marketing & presentation, and coming from gamer peripheral companies like corsair
<AlanBell> they are designed to fail to read-only and I have heard from some people who had that failure mode
<penguin42> but SSDs are great for the boot drive or dev - they're just amazing on boot times
<directhex> most SSDs don't fail to read-only. that's one of the biggest factors for brand choice
<directhex> i.e. intel drives should fail to read-only. an ocz won't
<MartijnVdS> intel++
<directhex> penguin42, not just boot... all slow app startups. of which games can be the worst
<penguin42> nod
<MartijnVdS> level loading times
<directhex> yes
<directhex> modern games need to spool several gig of textures, maps, etc, off the disk in a single level
<MartijnVdS> I've heard stories of people being banned for cheating because their load times were too low (this was when SSDs were very new)
<popey> bah, royal snail thing through the door
<popey> customs charge  + vat
<popey> bet this is my 3doodler
<directhex> in 2004, i discovered that linux/reiserfs was much faster to load unreal tournament 2004 maps than xp/ntfs on my pc
<directhex> so i used linux for online gaming, to get onto a map a few seconds sooner
<directhex> so i could get the best guns and vehicle before the rest of my team finished spawning
<penguin42> haha
<directhex> is youtube broken today for everyone else? most videos stop loading a few seconds in
<Myrtti> popey: uhoh :-( we only got ThriftyVac today
<diplo> When Blueyonder were new and I was still on there dialup, I used to connect to BY Game servers quick than anyone else and used to have very very low pings, always used to get accused of something
<directhex> i remember Wireplay
<diplo> Ah yes Wireplay days
<diplo> I admin'd a few WP servers but I was mainly a BY admin
<diplo> And then after the demise of BY I moved over to Multiplay, ran my own servers and helped admin the MP servers
<diplo> And then had kids and it pretty much all stopped :)
<directhex> right now youtube is taking about 3 minutes to download 15 or 30 second chunks of video
<directhex> it's annoying
<popey> \o/ it is
<diplo> Just trying now, seems to work fine here
<directhex> it's video dependent
<diplo> A minute in an no buffering/break
<diplo> ah
<directhex> at 2pm my digital camera is on amazon black friday
<directhex> for rather less than i paid for it
<directhex> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003VTZ7TQ/
<penguin42> directhex: That's the price before it gets black-friday'd
<directhex> penguin42, yep. i paid around Â£400.
<penguin42> directhex: How many times have you used it?
<directhex> prices drop, apparently
<directhex> penguin42, took it to the USA, it was great
<Myrtti> popey: how much was the customs and VAT?
<TwistedLucidity> popey, it's not just that. It's customs + VAT (if any) + Royal Mail service charge. If you speak to HMRC, you can get all the taxes done before hand and avoid the Royal Mail charge.
<MartijnVdS> ooh, a notice from the Machine of Death people that they'll be sending my game soon
 * TwistedLucidity periodically imports motorcycle parts
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you get that as well?
<popey> TwistedLucidity: i know â»
<popey> it was about 14 quid
<popey> no, 15
<MartijnVdS> hey, it's â¬14 for PostNL
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Of course, the question becomes which bloody category the "thing" falls under.
<MartijnVdS> what a coincidence
<shauno> the handling fee bugs me here.  if customs stop it I get charged 7eur, whether there's any import fees due or not
<MartijnVdS> shauno: oh we don't have that.. just the service charge, and only if customs decides to require fees
<TwistedLucidity> Anyone got advice on laptop locks? i.e. which ones resist picking, forcing, cutting etc? Can't find any destruction tests.
<diplo> Anyone here use any graphing software in there web apps ? like HighCharts
<shauno> I'm pretty sure highcharts is exactly the one I use
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: they're not meant for that, they're meant to deter people from just running away with the laptop.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: with enough force you can get them off, but that tends to be conspicuous
<directhex> and dam,age the casing
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: If they are too easy to pick/force; they are worthless.
<diplo> shauno: It is the best it seems :) need something for a web app that I'm 99% sure my boss won't pay for so just looking at any other recommendations
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: sure, you want it to be conspicuous :)
<directhex> TwistedLucidity, increasing theft time from 0s to 10s makes your laptop the riskiest in a set of un-locked laptops
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Not really, the circular keys are often prone to simple attacks. A decent thief could basically "palm" the lock and walk off, if the lock is vulnerable.
<shauno> diplo: that's pretty much what I arrived at. chart.js looks pretty too, but has no interactivity (by design), which tends to be a simple touch that makes my quick botches look fancier than they are
<diplo> I'm not worried about interactivity at the mo, I just found that one as well
<diplo> Going to give it a go in a bit
<diplo> cheers
<popey> TwistedLucidity: experience shows us that doesn't happen. theifs go for the easiest one to steal, the one that isnt locked
<MartijnVdS> hm, that's a new one.. Google Calendar invitation spam
<TwistedLucidity> popey: That's true, any lock is better than no lock. But if I am going to have a lock...may as well find a semi-decent one, y'know?
 * popey shrugs
<ali1234> what are you going to lock it to?
<MartijnVdS> the inside of a bank vault? ;)
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: If I locked it to something it wouldn't be portable.
 * TwistedLucidity is joking
<TwistedLucidity> Turns out Targus Defcon is highly rated. Good locks, so that'll do me.
<ali1234> i'm so confused
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's okay, we know
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: I was joking.
<ali1234> which time tho?
<MartijnVdS> all the time!
<TwistedLucidity> It will, most likely, be locked to a table in the office. An office with a sad history of laptops, USB drives and even monitors(!) disappearing.
<ali1234> you'll get to work and find no table
<popey> or missing a leg
<popey> or a leg bent
<diddledan> more campaign thingies against surveillance: https://en.necessaryandproportionate.org/take-action/ORG
<diddledan> actually that's a good campaign title: "THINGIES AGAINST SURVEILLANCE"
<TwistedLucidity> That's where the tracker comes in. But then we hit issues with encrypted swap. Hey ho, life is never simple.
<AlanBell> diddledan: "add your name, address and bank details to this list of people to protect your privacy"
<MooDoo> AlanBell: he needs to add pin and csv as well just to be sure.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: also, expiration date and ccv ;)
<diddledan> AlanBell: can you think of a better way?
<AlanBell> diddledan: ORG is a somewhat good organisation, I was just amused by the idea of compiling a list of names of people who don't like to be named on a list
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Make the tools easier to use and more commonly known to allow folks to go "dark". Yes this will have consequences, but the bad guys already know how to do it.
<AlanBell> is there a moderately sensible way to get a 3.2 kernel on saucy?
<AlanBell> I tried upgrading to trusty but do-release-upgrade -d failed and rolled back
<ali1234> 3.2?
<ali1234> you mean 3.12?
<AlanBell> kernel bug 61621 suggests that it should be fixed in 3.12
<lubotu3> bug 61621 in madman (Ubuntu) "segmentation fault in madman" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/61621
<AlanBell> yes, sorry, 3.12
<ali1234> well there is always the kernel ppa...
<TwistedLucidity> Or compile....
<ali1234> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.12-saucy/
<popey> yes, just get it from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<ali1234> if that works, just build your own package
<popey> bah
<AlanBell> perfect :)
<popey> thats the kernel I'm running
<ali1234> the mainline ppa doesn't have ubuntu patches
<popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.12-saucy/
<ali1234> but i'm not really sure what those are good for anyway
<popey> proving if a problem exists as a result of ubuntu patches and proving it exists in upstream later release kernels
<popey> gives the kernel team the right place to focus
<ali1234> no, i mean i'm not really sure what the point of ubuntu's patches is
<ali1234> since they don't seem to do anything
<popey> thats one for cking
<TwistedLucidity> Improving performance with Amazon? :-D
<cking> increasing my work load? ;-)
<ali1234> destroying desktop interactivity by setting swappiness far too high?
<ali1234> did that spaceship ever take off yesterday?
<diplo> Nope, thursday now
<Azelphur> ali1234: question for you, I have one of these http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51nW4RudxmL._SL1000_.jpg been trying to open it up...is it sane to even try to open it up? (It's a USB battery for charging phones and stuff)
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<ali1234> if you get it open you probably won't find anything useful inside
<Azelphur> like, I'm trying to get into the case
<ali1234> just a lithium battery and charging circuit
<ali1234> the charging circuit will probably die if disconnected from the battery
<Azelphur> I saw a hack the other day where someone opened up a nexus 7, ripped apart a QI charging case for a phone, stuck the coil inside and wired it up to the USB port, essentially adding QI charging to a Nexus 7 v1
<Azelphur> was hoping to do the same with my battery
<ali1234> why not just build it from scratch?
<Azelphur> you raise a good argument
<Azelphur> would require learning, but this sort of thing is what project boxes were made for
<ali1234> i have no idea how easy it would be to get inside that case
<Azelphur> I've been trying for a while, it really doesn't wanna come open
<ali1234> but it should be possible to do what you're describing
<ali1234> photos?
<ali1234> proper ones showing the back
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RodWhitby/posts/fAse7vGmc3q
<popey> that kind of thing?
<Azelphur> yup the one I saw was a bit simpler though
<ali1234> the nexus 7 is really easy to open, but not so easy to put back together
<Azelphur> photos taking forever to upload \o/
<ali1234> the back is loose now
<Azelphur> ali1234: really? I opened mine and put it back no problem
<popey> same here
<ali1234> mine now squeaks when you squeeze it in a certain place
<popey> is it on right?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> i think there was some glue on it
<popey> i found mine did squeak once when it wasn't on right
<popey> removed and re-attached
<ali1234> i will give it a try
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Gaffa-tape?
<ali1234> jaffa-tape \o/
<Seeker`> Jabber \o/
<ali1234> Shabba \o/
 * Seeker` remember when Matt J used to respond to that instantly
<Azelphur> why on earth are my photos taking so long to upload :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: because your upstream bandwidth is 0?
<Azelphur> oops, helps if I have my phone connected to wifi and not 3g :)
<ali1234> i accidentally downloaded a cyanogen rom on 3g the other day
<ali1234> left it downloading, didn't realise i turned wifi off
<MartijnVdS> I have more 4G bandwidth than wifi speed at work
<MartijnVdS> 25mbit up + 25 down instead of 25 down, 1 up
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: if you keep doing that...I WILL come and live with you.
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> you and your actually having decent internet
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also, no naughtyness filters
<MartijnVdS> *by law*
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> where do I sign up?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: booking.com seems to want to import a lot of people ;)
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwygai9qerxbh8e/2013-11-26%2014.24.09.jpg photo finally made it to the internet \o/
<Azelphur> I've been trying to get it open by pulling it apart with a screwdriver in the corner here, https://www.dropbox.com/s/q9dsdsromgvze1u/2013-11-26%2014.24.20.jpg but not much luck
<Azelphur> it opens a little but won't give, wonder if it's glued shut or something.
<ali1234> that photo is too blurry
<ali1234> put a credit card in the gap and go around the outside all the way
<ali1234> if that doesn't work it's glued
<TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: Lots of these things are held together by little more than clips/hooks. Once you know where they are, you know where to (gently) push to release them.
<TwistedLucidity> Unless of course, as ali1234 suggests, the wee bugger is glued.
 * Azelphur breaks out the credit card
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4i40opjamu9r23h/2013-11-26%2014.33.44.jpg?m= less blurry
<shauno> probably easiest to borrow a small child.  they can open anything
<Azelphur> hehe
<diplo> shauno: +1
<diplo> Get my kids to do stuff for me all the time now, especially the older one.
<ali1234> Azelphur: i need to see the join...
<Azelphur> ali1234: the join is on the sides
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5je9d4tgna6u2k6/2013-11-26%2014.37.43.jpg?m=
<ali1234> looks like it clips on
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> how easy would it be to make a USB charger like that though? I wonder if the multiple outputs would make it harder
<mungbean> my 3 yr old kid is forcing me to keep sharp
<mungbean> i had to learn the 66 books of the bible song because he learned it all and i had no excuses for not learning it
<mungbean> when he gets to wanting pi to 50dp i will admit defeat
<Azelphur> hehe
<davmor2> mungbean: wait till he starts correcting your work that's when you get to cry
<mungbean> he tries even now
<mungbean> no daddy thats not how you say it, repeat after me...
<MartijnVdS> another reason to ignore the bible ;)
<mungbean> i don't its required to learn the order of the books to get into heaven...
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: to be fair you don't want to ignore it all,  It has some epic battles, some great lyrics for Love songs, and if you're Coolio you get to turn one line into a huge number 1 :)
<mungbean> actually there's a new series on TV starting saturday , its supposed to be high quality
<mungbean> they will probably focus on the battles a lot for the guys
<TwistedLucidity> Meh - the Greek and Roman gods if you want epic battles.
<MooDoo> mungbean: what's the series? missed it
<mungbean> called "The bible" starting on channel 5 this sat
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: that tends to be less epic battle and more acts of heroism :)  The bible has things like the war of the hitites where an entire civilisation was destroyed :D
<mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wujo2dFBUL0
<MooDoo> ah isn't there one about moses as well soon or is that amovie
<mungbean> 185000 assyrians were slaughtered in one day
<mungbean> MooDoo: noah
<mungbean> its a film
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: True, true.
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: There was a great documentary on Channel 4 (I think) where they compared the bible to the archeological evidence and the known political history. Fascinating to see how bits got dropped/added/rewritten.
<mungbean> you mean when they didn't believe nebuchandezzar existed and then they found a pot with his name on?
<TwistedLucidity> mungbean: Don't recall that bit. More about how the fortifications reported in the text weren't actually in use when the bible claimed they were.
<TwistedLucidity> See if I can dredge up the docu....saw it a while ago, might not be available now
<mungbean> usually thats due to incorrect timelines
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: One thing I heard on a documentary that was similar was that history is always written by the victors, pretty much true across all of history :)
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: That was the general thrust of this one too.
<mungbean> i like how they say things on archaeology programmes like "hmm it looks like the whole of egypt moved to cities, and used loads of slave labour, we have no idea why"
<mungbean> and then in genesis you see why it happened
<mungbean> the whole of egypt went to cities and sold themselves to the govt to pay for food in the 7 year famine
<TwistedLucidity> Well, I can see a central organsational system allowing for better distribution of resources (a form of social welfare). But did it happen? Was that the main reason is happened, or was it merely a symtpom of some other driver?
<TwistedLucidity> I'm not an Egyptologist or much of a historian, so I really don't know.
<TwistedLucidity> I'm drawing a blank - the docu had a female biblical scholar, I remember that much. Just can't seem to find it.
<TwistedLucidity> "Jesus was a Bhuddist monk"? Ha ha ha....no, don't think that's the one either
<mungbean> not convinced by these amazon flash sales
<mungbean> if wonder if people are just buying them because they think its a bargain, when sometimes its not really a massive bargain and not something they need...
<TheOpenSourcerer> mungbean: Ebuyer are doing the same thing have had 2 emails today for specific products being sold at ...? prices. Nothing I was interested in though.
<TwistedLucidity> Ah-ha! Think this is it. http://biblicalauthorship.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/bbc-bibles-buried-secrets-2011.html
<bigcalm> mungbean: this is why shops have sales. People will buy because they save money, even if they logically don't need it
<shauno> I don't like these 2-hour windows on the amazon one.  so if I want it I have to buy it now, and if I want something else in 2 hours time I have to pay shipping again?
<mungbean> encourages the amazon prime thing
<shauno> heh, apparently amazon prime ends up costing more in shipping for Ireland
<rubydev> SimonLAmb
<ali1234> mungbean: i'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens
<arsen> well, i did buy the 240gig crucial SSD from the amazon sale, mungbean. been wanting one years and been too lazy to use it, but at Â£90 it was a good price i think.
<TwistedLucidity> arsen: There was a 240GB one? Dammit - I only saw the 120GB
<arsen> yeah i never wanted a 120gig one, too small for my gaming machine - means i have to be concious of space usage. 240 should be fine.
<Myrtti> TwistedLucidity: yesterday
<popey> Golly. http://yoyogames.com/news/188
<diddledan> why is sourceforge so ugly?
<daftykins> diddledan: just any page @ .net?
<daftykins> doesn't look too painful :D
<diddledan> I think it's too "busy"
<diddledan> http://sourceforge.net/directory/os:mac/freshness:recently-updated/ for e.g.
<diddledan> the "top apps" section is below the fold
<daftykins> hmm, i don't have an adblocker on this system so yeah it is quite bleh
<diddledan> the owners' site isn't very pretty either - it's like a blast from web1.0: http://www.diceholdingsinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=211152&p=irol-landing
<ali1234> popey: "only" $500?
<ali1234> diddledan: sourceforge has always been extremely ugly. slow too. and difficult to use.
<diddledan> github ftew
<diddledan> ftw*
<diddledan> sourceforge has gone nasty-commercial
<diddledan> they _originally_ (way way back) were all about the open source, now they're all about the monies
<diddledan> I like github's business model
<daftykins> shame about their repeatedly getting owned
<daftykins> though granted that may be a significant proportion down to a user's securing of their own site
<diddledan> daftykins: owned as in bought-out or pwned as in haxx0red?
<daftykins> the latter
<diddledan> speaking of which, I got my letter from adobe the other day
<daftykins> haha yeah my client did too
<diddledan> "watch out for fraud"
<daftykins> in fact he has had a password reset email now too
<daftykins> i need to pop up and go through any services he uses the same pass and email for and change 'em
<diddledan> yeah my password reset email seemed to occur before they'd configured the system to recognise the reset password as "secure"
<daftykins> as in the reset one was very basic?
<diddledan> as in I changed it and then got prompted a few days later when logging in that I needed to change it
<shauno> I didn't get a letter :( just an email
<diddledan> shauno: they probably still think you're in michigan?
<daftykins> you may still get one, they were a week apart for my client
<daftykins> hehe that travelling shauno
<shauno> nah I've bought lightroom since then
<diddledan> lol
<penguin42> how did anyone do anything before google maps?
<diddledan> penguin42: ordnance survey
<ali1234> ordnance survey maps are still better than gmaps
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh but they don't do things like show you all the supermarkets in an area that you've never been to
<ali1234> if they had any sense they'd have a online subscription thingy
<ali1234> in fact they might well have one
<ali1234> penguin42: sadly, neither does google maps most of the time
<ali1234> unless you're in london, then it might
<penguin42> ali1234: Well it's just apparently shown it for a corner of Munich I'm due to be in on Monday
<diddledan> I wonder what proportion of people use gmaps purely to look up places they know to point and say "look, it's on the internet!" or "look, that's my car!" or "look, that's my husband coming out of that adult shop......he's dead!"
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i'm sure Google knows
<shauno> or "I've forgotten where the Dakotas are, but I'm too embarassed to ask"
<penguin42> diddledan: Actually the new Apple Maps stuff is pretty damn neat - have a play if you get a chance in a shop etc - they've got some type of polygonal overlay with heights - very odd/realistic/revealing
<diddledan> shauno: I don't think I ever knew the answer to that one
<shauno> I do wish they had more data layers available though.  I was looking for something the other day, and ended up getting bogged down in govt landuse-surveys instead :/
<shauno> the 'new maps' seem to be going the opposite direction through
<shauno> never did figure that out either.  how do you run copper to a site when the customer claims they only have a po box?
<penguin42> OS coordinates?
<shauno> it's in the states .. they have a weird system for rural addressing, that no-one seems to know
<penguin42> 3 yards due west from the last cactus along the ....
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System   this, which I'd never heard of.  but is a requirement for fixed lines in rural areas, for silly reasons  (the line has to be registered with E911, even though it's being run as a data pair, not voice)
<neuro> penguin42: by "polygonal overlay with heights", do you mean the 3D view?
<diddledan> apple have some pretty high-res photography on their maps thing
<daftykins> i should hope so!
<daftykins> my friend used to work at our local mapping company though, he used to tell us what Google were like for asking about map data
<daftykins> they phone up trying to get it for free
<MartijnVdS> of course they want it for free :)
<daftykins> every Guernsey mapping flight costs about Â£60k apparently
<MartijnVdS> they're a company. Never hurts to ask.
<diddledan> if they can get it for free it means they don't have to charge so much to their advertising partners for the same service - or provide more of a service for the same cost - or pocket the difference (this is most likely)
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/144lqc7qkedtquj/Screenshot%202013-11-26%2019.30.51.png
<daftykins> heh
<diddledan> neuro: nice - it doesn't work for amazingstoke, however :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: amazingstoke eh? 8-)
<daftykins> i like that name :D
<neuro> you're right, it doesn't
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6gr4n6utplyu0k/Screenshot%202013-11-26%2019.32.33.png
<MartijnVdS> doesn't even work for Amsterdam and Rotterdam
<MartijnVdS> while Google Earth does have those in 3D-ish
<diddledan> hamster jam
<diddledan> tasty
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: only when we're not working
<penguin42> neuro: It's a rather false 3d-view - it sometimes works and you can see the polygons and yeh
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: that's the 21st century version of "Shopped, I can see by the pixels, and I've seen some shops in my time" etc.
<neuro> works very well for glasgow ;) https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9ajdb03p0elsne/Screenshot%202013-11-26%2019.37.18.png
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/this-looks-shopped
<MartijnVdS> neuro: is that the website or the Earth app?
<neuro> neither
<MartijnVdS> .. what is it then?
<neuro> Maps on OS X
<MartijnVdS> neuro: ah.. can you try Amsterdam then?
 * MartijnVdS was trying Google maps
<neuro> :(
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/69wcd1sek183242/Screenshot%202013-11-26%2019.38.51.png
<MartijnVdS> flat as a pancake! ;)
<MartijnVdS> just like IRL
<neuro> :)
<penguin42> neuro: It's interesting if you zoom in on a suburb with lots of houses - you see things like cars smushed over a few polygons
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/y0stravsm6h4bww/Screenshot%202013-11-26%2019.40.34.png
<neuro> it's artifacts of the lidar mapping
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> certainly very neat
<neuro> it's a great idea, because then you don't have to build 3D models of every building, ever, like Google were doing for Google Earth
<neuro> but at the moment the fidelity seems a bit low in places
<diddledan> lidar?! that's not even a real thing :-p
<neuro> erm, ok?
<diddledan> next you'll be saying we've been to the moon
<neuro> oh, good
<neuro> i was seconds away from posting a "can't tell if ..." image
<diddledan> lidar is something they invented for that startrek episode where harry or tom (voyager) met their idol
<shauno> you get used to him.  it does border on selective deafness at times though
<neuro> lol
<diddledan> "the lidar scanners are recording" I believe was a key phrase
<neuro> you do realise ... no, wait, i'm being trolled
<neuro> STAND DOWN, BRAIN
<shauno> why do all the pi cases hug its figure so much?  I'm looking for something that makes it a tad more presentable
<daftykins> what kinda use-case?
<neuro> BYO?
<penguin42> shauno: Because it's got connectors on a few of the sides so it has to match them?
<shauno> yeah, I'm looking at tiny cables to break connectors out to sensible places.  it's going under the TV, so usb front, everything else back, would be ideal
<penguin42> yeh and those connectors are quite costly when you add them all up
<penguin42> and you have to mount them etc, where as if you just hug the board you just need simple slots
<shauno> at the moment its just going wherever the ethernet cable wants it to go
<shauno> tempted to find a heaver hdmi cable just to weigh it down
<penguin42> shauno: This should do the trick (free postage!) http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0028RZ738/ref=gb1h_img_c-1_8827_934651e2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1EM3DDS0P5RWW0ZVRJ6E&pf_rd_i=161428031&pf_rd_p=449478827
<diddledan> that's the problem with the pi - it's too small and light
<neuro> and my wallet's too small for my fifties, and my diamond shoes are too tight
<neuro> ;)
<diddledan> penguin42: Â£5.99 on lightning deal
<penguin42> diddledan: That's where I linked from, it said 5.99-25.99 on the lightning deal page
<MartijnVdS> shipping is going to be expensive on that I guess
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: depends on the weight
<neuro> btw, you kids know you can trim the chaff off of amazon URLs, right? http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0028RZ738
<penguin42> yeh but that takes effort
 * MartijnVdS already ordered a new Logitech Harmony set today, â¬25 cheaper than I can get it in .nl
<neuro> which one?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009HPFUGI
<MartijnVdS> neuro: no wait, that's an SD card which currently has a deal going
<neuro> hee
<MartijnVdS> the Logitech thing is http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00C80JGGO
<neuro> oh right, that
<MartijnVdS> neuro: my current Harmony is 5ish years old, battery is almost dead.
<neuro> i has one of these: http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/product/harmony-touch
<MartijnVdS> I have the "Harmony One" atm
<neuro> yeah i had a harmony one til it died on it's arse
<neuro> that reminds me, i need to programme my touch for the xbox one
<MartijnVdS> popey: Marmime salt & pepper set will go into "black friday sale" mode in 19 minutes
<neuro> they made a big thing about it working already, so i assume the profile is available
<neuro> i am not looking at the lightning deals until i get paid in the morning ;)
<daftykins> after Panorama i feel almost bad to shop at Amazon...
<penguin42> neuro: Nothing has actually made me buy any of them - but there again I'm very tight
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I got paid this morning ;)
<neuro> i was tempted by Battlefield 4 for PC for 23 quid this morning, but decided against it
<neuro> i've already spent 95 quid on it for the xbox one
<ali1234> 95 pounds? whaaaaaaat?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: probably 1 game
<neuro> ali1234: Â£54.99 for the download off the Xbox store, Â£39.99 for Battlefield Premium
<ali1234> how can they charge Â£54.99 for a download?
<ali1234> and it's not even the full game?
<ali1234> whaaaaaaaaaat
<neuro> eh?
<neuro> it is the full game
<ali1234> why did you have to pay an extra Â£39.99 for premium then?
<neuro> i didn't "have" to pay
<ali1234> what do you get?
<neuro> BF4 Premium gives you access to all the available and planned BF4 DLC packs, plus some other perks and events
<neuro> you're pre-purchasing the DLC at a discount basically, and getting some small goodies along with it
<ali1234> a discount??
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh just think how little #39.99 is
<penguin42> I mean heck, it's nothing.....
<ali1234> do not want
<neuro> 5 DLC packs at probably Â£13 each
<neuro> ali1234: no-one is forcing you to buy it ;)
<neuro> oh yeah, and Premium members get DLC packs two weeks before non-Premium users
<neuro> so we get head starts on new maps
<ali1234> so it's pay to win as well, nice
<ali1234> this is everything that is wrong with video games today
<neuro> um, ok
<neuro> i think you're conflating "early access" with "free to play"
<ali1234> no, i'm merely suggesting that paying more money gives you an advantage in the game
<neuro> for a week, maybe
<neuro> then everyone else is as good as you on the newer maps
<directhex> it's a real trend though
<neuro> but there's no requirement to buy the maps at all
<neuro> you can stick with the base game if you like
<directhex> "freemium" games introduced the idea of giving you the base content for free, and charging for everything extra. pay-per-gun, pay-per-level, whatever. popular on smartphone games and MMOs
<ali1234> i think i'll give it a miss...
<neuro> ali1234: no-one was forcing you ;)
<directhex> turns out you make more money with free-to-play than with a subscription fee
<directhex> sadly a modern trend is to give the freemium microtransactions on top of full-price games. buy in-game currency in your racing game rather than racing the lower tiers, etc
<daftykins> kinda ruins the game if it gives benefits to the richer though
<neuro> yeah, you're thinking of catch up packs
<neuro> like "unlock all the weapons now for Â£8!" or "unlock all unlockable cars now for Â£12!"
<ali1234> daftykins: not if you're rich, which unfortunately is the only customers that publishers care about
<directhex> yep
<neuro> scared the hell out of us when playing battlefield 3
<directhex> welcome to the future
<directhex> please enjoy your stay
<neuro> noob ranked players rocking about with USAS12 shotguns and M98 Barretts
<neuro> but then again, getting access to unlockable things doesn't necessarily make you a good player
<daftykins> no, but a non-even playing field makes me a very angry person
<directhex> not if the game is carefully balanced
<ali1234> but it does effectively lock you out of the game if you're neither extremely skilled nor rich enough to buy the stuff
<directhex> e.g. in TF2, most of the unlockable weapons are worse than the base ones, unless you're a very skilled player anyway
<MartijnVdS> but they look better
<neuro> hats! :)
<neuro> ali1234: no, it doesn't
<neuro> ali1234: a skilled player can still compete with basic weapons
<ali1234> neuro: but an unskilled player can't
<neuro> so they'd suck anyway
<ali1234> neuro: an unskilled player cannot compete with other unskilled players with better equipment, nor can they compete with skilled players with base equipment
<ali1234> and guess what... everyone starts off unskilled
<neuro> not really
<neuro> unless it's a completely new style of game, there will always be pre-learned skills to utilise
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: give n00bs a DOOM (1) style BFG9000s and they'll win ;)
<popey> MartijnVdS: ooh
<neuro> MartijnVdS: but skilled players will route around that ;)
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure that people aren't born with FPS abilities
<neuro> ali1234: then you're at a disadvantage anyway, regardless of the equipment you have in game
<popey> bah, all claimed
<davmor2> ali1234: speak for yourself, it's called life :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: join the waitlist
<neuro> and anyway, the point of Battlefield is that it's a team game, so surrounding yourself with "better" players means you can survive longer
<MartijnVdS> popey: it works -- I got my Harmony set like that
<popey> #381 Your place on the waiting list
<MartijnVdS> :(
<popey> POOR	 	Your chance of getting this deal
<neuro> lol
<MartijnVdS> popey: stay on there though.. those things only stay in peoples' baskets for 15 minutes
<popey> k
 * popey lols at the OCD people on C4
<diplo> Anyone help with some code please ( python ) trying to teach myself. Will pastebin in a sec. Basically got a large dir of images with lots of sub dirs and want to create a .thumbnail in each dir
 * penguin42 lols at the Amazon deal list - very random, kind of like cpc catalogues; a toaster next to a laptop, next to a PS3
<diplo> Find for the first run but if I run it twice ( same script will create the thumbnails ) creates another sub dir
<daftykins> penguin42: :D
<daftykins> penguin42: is this the Black Friday deals bit?
<penguin42> nod
<diplo> http://pastebin.com/BMiKqr1k
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: the complete works of Haydn..
<neuro> diplo: i'd do that in a simple bash script, but that's just me ;)
<diplo> Tryinh to learn python, may come to bash yet :P
<neuro> :D
<diplo> trying*
<neuro> rootdir = ...
<neuro> but then you use root thereafter
<daftykins> wowzer, Â£165 for a PS3 and Ass. Creed IV to VAT free land
<neuro> not rootdir?
 * neuro sniggers at "Ass Creed"
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> Creed of the Ass, neuro
<daftykins> donkey club
 * neuro shudders
<neuro> is that for the 4GB PS3 though?
<daftykins> 500GB
<neuro> wow
<daftykins> i already have an xbox and don't plan to get the game though
<neuro> i never did get into the assassin's creed games
<diplo> rootdir is the dir, os walk seperates it into subdirs and the original dir. Issue is it creates /srv/images/kids/.thumb fine but then does /srv/images/kids/.thumb/.thumb on second run
<daftykins> 1 and 2 were great - after that they're just kinda like map pack cash-ins
<directhex> ac1 is a tech demo, very hard to get into
<daftykins> yeah 1 was pretty repetitive
<directhex> ac2 is awesome, but it really benefits rom some of the background story from ac1
<neuro> diplo: yeah but your code defines 'rootdir' but then references 'root' thereafter
<directhex> brotherhood is a big expansion pack sold standalone
<neuro> diplo: shouldn't it be 'rootdir' all the way through?
<directhex> revelations is a small expansion pack sold standalone
<directhex> 3 is a boring twat jumping near trees
<neuro> lol
<diddledan> diplo: in pseudocode you need to check that the folder name you're working on isn't .thumb
<diddledan> so maybe a regex or an endsWith if such a thing exists
<diddledan> if not root.endswith('/.thumb')
<neuro> cute
<diddledan> http://docs.python.org/2/library/stdtypes.html says that's valid
<diddledan> ideally you'd use the system-defined separator though rahter than assuming it's /
<diplo> diddledan: hah, I've got it.. I was using if not rather if
<diplo> :)
<diddledan> for your creation of the path use os.path.join() and to work out the separator you'd use os.pathsep
<ali1234> diplo: os.walk is a mess
<ali1234> try to avoid it if at all possible
<ali1234> ie by writing a python script that acts on one file and then doing find . -exec myscript.y {} \;
<diddledan> (I don't know much about python at all, but I can google like a posessed devil)
<diplo> Shall I just use something else :)
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> diplo: I think the if not was correct
<diddledan> the code as you pasted it checks whether there's a dir at root/.thumb and if not then create it
<diddledan> however your walker will walk down into any .thumb dirs so root will contain the .thumb so you'll check whether there's a dir at (origroot)/.thumb.thumb and if not then create it
<diddledan> (origroot)/.thumb/.thumb I mean
<diplo> yeah I said that above
<diplo> Ta
<daftykins> parked up beside the cheap supermarket by me today: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cuizjt29anbuvcv/porsche.jpg
<neuro> boxster slumming it :)
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> enjoy your 35mph max, Porsche owner
<MartijnVdS> \o/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007lqrh
<neuro> aargh
<neuro> sorry, football
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<neuro> eey oop
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-27
<MartijnVdS> The 240G Crucial SSD is coming up again in the Black Friday Deals on Amazon, if anyone is interested (in not-quite-12 hours)
<antichatter> Hello
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: what you doing being awake at 05:35(EU Time? - it's 04:35 here)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: woke up half an hour before my alarm :)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: decided going back to sleep wasn't going to be useful
<diddledan> lol, I've done that far too often (the going back to sleep bit)
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> morning, MooDoo
<MooDoo> seems we're the only ones up again lo
<MooDoo> l
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: maybe diddledan is still awake :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: he was at 4:30 (your timezone)
<MooDoo> wow that's early
<diddledan> yeah, I'm still here
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: are you a robot? ;)
<diddledan> maybe
<diddledan> I'll crash in a few hours
<MooDoo> diddledan: how come up so earlt?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning
<MooDoo> morning :)
<diddledan> MooDoo: it's late - I haven't slept yet :-p
<MooDoo> ah....
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: young children? or on-call? :)
<diddledan> fiddling
<diddledan> I been hunting down a backend-as-a-service
<diddledan> I found https://apigee.com which looks promising
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: that website looks overly vague to me. What can it do?
<MartijnVdS> Sure it can "scale like an enterprise", but WHAT can it scale?
<diddledan> it provides data storage and query facilities primarily
<MartijnVdS> so like AWS?
<diddledan> the available apis are listed under "build apps" here: http://apigee.com/docs/content/build-apps-home
<diddledan> higher up the stack than aws
<diddledan> aws are IaaS whereas this is more PaaS
<diddledan> the idea is that you don't need to code any backend software yourself to support your "app"
<diddledan> I've been hunting one that doesn't just do MBaaS (Mobile Backend as a Service) but is more generalised so I can use it in a webapp
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<brobostigon> ok, on a dual core x86 machine, would it be best to use an smp kernel, or a pae one ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: don't PAE ones include SMP anyway? Also.. 32-bit, are you sure?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good point, yes. how do i find out?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: what kind of CPU is it?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: lshw just says, its a dualcpu, intel cpu of 32 bits width.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and /proc/cpuinfo ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: does it have a "MOdel name"?
<MartijnVdS> Mine says this, for example:
<MartijnVdS> model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4500U CPU @ 1.80GHz
<brobostigon> genuine intel(r) cpu   t2300 @ 1.66ghz
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "Core Duo", 32-bit only :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'd go for SMP, if you have >3GB RAM, PAE might be better though
<MartijnVdS> wait.. non-PAE has been dropped.. so SMP should also have PAE
<MartijnVdS> so SMP it is :)
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, that it is then, :)
<dwatkins> allo
<MooDoo> hello dwatkins how are you
<mungbean> just tried spending a genuine Â£50 note. looked very guilty in the process
<dwatkins> good thanks, a bit late for work, though - I'm supposed to start closer to 8am than this
<dwatkins> I trust everyone else is well
<mungbean> had to bring my shaver to work and i didn't finish shaving in time
<mungbean> have half a beard atm
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Pins and Needles Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: what kind of day is *that*?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, bit of an odd one.  Something to do with a play in the '30s.
<DJones> Sounds sharp and stabby
<mungbean> docs.google.com is crashing chrome tab every time :S
<JamesTait> It would also have been the birthday of Bruce Lee and Jimi Hendrix.
<DJones> I'd rather go with happy 'payroll day' even though it does mean more work for me
<MooDoo> JamesTait: sorry can't see too much purple haze
<DJones> And I get one every month
<mungbean> my friend updated his iphone and now the rotation is locked permanaetly to portrait - any ideas?
<mungbean> thought i'd ask my favourite bunch of clever people
<MooDoo> Double-click the Home button to show the recent apps bar. Flick to the far left and tap the portrait lock control at the left of the iPod controls.
<shauno> if he's new to ios7, there's a whole panel that pops up if you slide in from the bottom of the screen.  rotation lock is on there (last icon on the top row)
<mungbean> http://www.iphonefaq.org/archives/972915
<mungbean> thanks chaps
<mungbean> i am blissfully ignorant of apple device
<MooDoo> I googled it ;)
<mungbean> didn't even knwo the ios version
<mungbean> i was fixing his mums pc at the time and couldn't google :S
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: is it round and 3D or flat?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: ifi t's flat it's 7
<shauno> if he's complaining it's too white, it's 7.  if he's complaining it hasn't changed in 5 years, it's not ;)
<popey> Morning Ratfans
<mungbean> i don't recall anything about ti
<MooDoo> ello eroll
<JamesTait> MooDoo, today I shall mostly be listening to http://www.7digital.com/artist/jimi-hendrix/release/fire-the-jimi-hendrix-collection
<MartijnVdS> \o popeyman
<SuperMatt> morning Popeotron
<mungbean> but i was able to swipe down, but the conrtol contre is nothing near as useful as android
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone want a cheap(ish) desktop?: http://www.ebuyer.com/daily-deals
<MooDoo> not too shabby that
<diplo> Blimey, not bad price.. don't know about the processor ?
<mungbean> freedos \o/
<mungbean> i get nervous of amd graphics cards
<popey> yeah, i avoid them
<mungbean> i don't even bother with the nvidia blob nowadays, nouveau is good enough
<diplo> OK for windows, parents need a cheap new pc
<diplo> :)
<mungbean> i wanted to ask about chromebooks photo editing
<mungbean> does anyone know about it?
<mungbean> WHAT IS THE APP ETC/
<MartijnVdS> I have a chromebook
<mungbean> woops
<MartijnVdS> any app you can get for it should also be available in the "Chrome Web Store" in "normal" chrome
<mungbean> most PC users i know use the internet and picasa
<MartijnVdS> well Picasa is G+ now, so they can continue to use that
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitsound-Bluetooth-Wireless-Portable-Speaker/dp/B00CTN8FOY/
<popey> that looks quite nice
<popey> will be lightning deal in 2 mins
<MartijnVdS> popey: honeycomb :)
<MartijnVdS> somehow, I doubt the specs: Product Dimensions: 0.1 x 0.1 x 0.1 cm ; 100 g
<popey> heh
<popey> i bought a cheapo one from tesco via ebay, sophie stole it for her phone
<MartijnVdS> I've heard a Logitech BT speaker, similar to this. It sounded amazing for its szie
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: picasa is g+? does the standalone client still work?
<popey> they stopped supporting it on linux iirc
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: the Picasa website is now G+
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: ah ok
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: the app works, but not on chromebooks (which doesn't really "do" native apps)
<MooDoo> I wish there was a decent sync for g+ so I could sync all my photos to it, ftp or rsync or something
<mungbean> so how do i edit photos and view them? all via g+
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: well, you go to the photo, then click "Edit" ?
<MooDoo> just go to photos
<MooDoo> what MartijnVdS saidf
<mungbean> i appaer to have downloaded a picasa web app
<MooDoo> mungbean: youshouldn't need to do that, as you should be able to do it all from your browser
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: was it "by Google" or some scammy third party?
<mungbean> the photo editor couldn't be loaded
<mungbean> not sure how to tell
<mungbean> there are 2.1m users though...
<mungbean> and realted apps by the developer are gmail etc
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: ah, some of those are just links to the web site
<MartijnVdS> most*
<popey> extensions@chromium.org
<MartijnVdS> sounds legit
<mungbean> tbh i don't understand the chromebook appeal
<mungbean> you aren't getting much for your money
<MooDoo> I'd like one just for speed, surfing email youtube, fast simple nothing to worry about
<MartijnVdS> I have a cheap chromebook, everything is on the web for me
<MartijnVdS> it can even do ssh 8-)
<MartijnVdS> so a few ssh sessions + gmail -> chromebook works fine
<MooDoo> friend has one for sale, Â£120 samsung tempted.
<mungbean> does it have a terminal ?
<mungbean> i guess it's a third device, laptop, tablet and chromebook
<mungbean> but excessive for my needs
<mungbean> since i already have a laptop
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: there's an ssh client, the local terminal (Ctrl+Alt+T) is *very* limited
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I use https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/secure-shell/pnhechapfaindjhompbnflcldabbghjo
<MooDoo> it would be handy for my kids to get them on my wifes IPad :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: ^ that works in *any* Chrome I guess
<mungbean> MooDoo: off the wifes ipad ?
<MooDoo> mungbean: yes sorry lol
<popey> my wife teaches at a school, a surprising number of the kids have chromebooks at home
<popey> i think my mum would be fine with a chromebook
<MooDoo> tempted to get my kids one to be honest....
<popey> except for the rapid release cycle which means the UI keeps changing
<schwuk> popey: I'm a big fan of them for what they are - disposable coffee shop/travel/conference laptops. :-)
<popey> â»
<mungbean> what about uploading digital photos with a chromebook?
<MooDoo> upload them like you would, any way, usb from camera to chromebook, upload to the cloud
<mungbean> so there is some local storage
<MooDoo> little bit
<mungbean> but uploading 400M of photos will take forever and a day
<mungbean> to the internet
<popey> it'll take ages on any computer
<mungbean> its not required on other computer
<mungbean> originals locally and smaller ones on flickr
<popey> *shrug*
<popey> I like having backups
<popey> it *is* required to copy photos somewhere else on any other computer, its just that people are dumb and don't backup
<mungbean> or do it in batches
<schwuk> mungbean: this is why Google+/Dropbox/Flickr do auto-backup on phones, but if you're using a standalone camera you'll still have to upload
<mungbean> i'm asking the questions for mumbuntu type users
<mungbean> ah, screens are too small anyway
<schwuk> mungbean: I've gone overboard - originals locally (and backed up) + originals backed up to Dropbox + auto backup to G+. I'm rarely at the computer when I want the pictures, and I've been burnt by lack of backups before!
<mungbean> i backup to amazon glacier in batches
<schwuk> mungbean: too small or too low res - you can get 14" Chromebooks
<popey> i autobackup to G+ & Dropbox
<mungbean> i have a real camera
<popey> then when I power on my desktop (1TB drive containing photo masters) I import photos from dropbox to shotwell
<mungbean> i mean canon EOS
<popey> as do I
<popey> drag photos from card to dropbox, leave it alone
<popey> take card out, go photographing again
<mungbean> dropbox on chromebook?
<popey> i dont have a chromebook
<popey> just pointing out that not having a chromebook doesn't mean you automatically dont use the cloud
<popey> well, I don't
<mungbean> sure, but you need a local buffer of sorts
<mungbean> as long as chromebook has enough space for that maybe its ok
<Myrtti> schwuk: which flickr app on your phone / which phone do you have that that autouploads to flickr?
<schwuk> mungbean: personally, a chromebook is a companion device - like I said coffee shops/travel/conferences. It's no replacement for a desktop or high-end laptop, but very few people need those.
<mungbean> agree
<mungbean> but would be a nice mumbuntu replacement if it ticks the boxes
<mungbean> just as a had to clean malware off a pc last night
<mungbean> and synaptics touchpad wasn't working
<mungbean> etc etc
<mungbean> and a million apps at startup hassling you
<popey> \o/ windows
<schwuk> Myrtti: I thought the official app had added that - I guess not. I don't use Flickr heavily.
<Myrtti> atleast on Android it's not smart enough for that
<popey> Myrtti: backed that foldio too â»
<mungbean> how can i check a nagios definition on the command line?
<mungbean> e.g a check_http check
<schwuk> mungbean: you mean run the check manually?
<mungbean> schwuk: got in now thanks
<mungbean> check_http on CLI works, but there's a prob with my service config
<mungbean> always showing as up
<SuperMatt> gosh, I'm sorta salivating over openstack
<penguin42> what you planning on doing with it?
<SuperMatt> EVERYTHING
<penguin42> oh that's ok then
<SuperMatt> naw, the company as a whole currently has everything with a lot of different providers, and so the idea is to bring it all together using openstack and maybe rackspace
<SuperMatt> this is all planning though
<mungbean> look at cloudstack too
<mungbean> seems more mature, fully formed
<SuperMatt> oh, and apache project
<mungbean> is now
<mungbean> got handed over , was a commerical one
<mungbean> i just read a dailymail article. i hate myself now
<davmor2> Morning all
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<BigRedS> mungbean: my only exposure to Cloudstack is a free T-shirt from them at Fosdem. Do people actually use it?
<SuperMatt> mungbean: I think it's the rackspace integration that makes openstack the frontrunner right now
<SuperMatt> mungbean: http://www.shouldireadthedailymail.com/
<mungbean> that guy from lostprophets seems to be the most depraved human being ever
<SuperMatt> oh
<SuperMatt> oh
<SuperMatt> oh god
<SuperMatt> I feel sick
<SuperMatt> thanks mungbean for letting me look him up
<mungbean> even worse when family member went on his tour bus when she was 15
<mungbean> fortunately too old for him by about 14 years it seems
<mungbean> :(
<SuperMatt> :/
<mungbean> looks at hitler puppy picture  instead
<popey> \o/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25119158
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.open-electronics.org/helium-an-open-source-supercapacitor-powered-portable-speaker/
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt mungbean: He'll probably spend most of the rest of his natural life in isolation.
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: which is unfortunate, put him in general population
<SuperMatt> he will certainly need to be in solitary confinement, because he will be brutally murdered in prison
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: that's the point.
<SuperMatt> it's quite interesting, prison. They don't like paedophiles more than any other type of inmate, and I think I understand why
<SuperMatt> the victim was always innocent
<TwistedLucidity> He's sick in the head.
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: yup or people that hit women, may sound contradictory, but there is still honour umongst theives
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> it's the idea that a child is innocent and *no one* should ever hurt one
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: Yup, cultural differences to one side - you reach a point where our base nature (protect the progeny) kicks in. Any animal will kill (or attempt to kill) to protect young.
<SuperMatt> at least people who have murdered generally have a reason that they believed strongly that they had to do it
<directhex> the point of jail isn't retribution. "prison justice" is not justice
<SuperMatt> oh, for sure
<MooDoo> on a lighter note, Â£1500 well done to the alans so far - http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: Unless you read the Daily Mail of course.
<SuperMatt> huzzah!
<TheOpenSourcerer> \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Jeez I'm famished... Hurry up sandwich van!!!!
<MooDoo> wow 3 pi's and a pint :D
<SuperMatt> I'm famished too
<SuperMatt> just waiting for the clock to hit 12 so I can break out the lunch box
<directhex> TwistedLucidity, DM readers believe in "traditional" justice. corporal punishment, summary execution, that kind of thing. they are uncivilized people, no better than those they decry
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: I know, that was kind of my point.
<diddledan> I'm still awake \o/
<diddledan> hungry, though, so I'll join with the famished brigade
<arsen> anyone any clue as to how often the kimsufi/ovh servers are restocked? prices are great for the latest gen boxes but always sold out :<
<popey> Achievement unlocked: Unloaded dishwasher while kettle boiled
<diddledan> I just wrote a script which I'm sure will fail horribly and completely
<popey> Achievement unlocked: Filled washing machine while tea brewed
<arsen> OR any recommended OVH alternatives for a similar price point.
<penguin42> popey: Now now, no cheating by overfilling the kettle
<popey> I always fill the kettle to the brim
<popey> well, max fill line
<penguin42> why? Do you use that much water?
<bigcalm> popey: why do you waste so much energy?
<popey> well, when I say always
<arsen> for a regular tea drinker that's a few beer tokens a month!
<popey> first one is "fill" then the next one is "reboil"
<bigcalm> The more you boil water, the more o2 it looses
<popey> wat
<bigcalm> Water contains disolved oxygen as well as other minerals
<bigcalm> The more you boil it, the more concentrated those other minerals get
<mungbean> why do they say that baby milk should only be made with freshly boiled water, i.e. don't reboil
<bigcalm> Making for odd tasting tea
<mungbean> ah
<DJones> I had visions of the oxygen in water disappearing to leave a kettle full of hydrogen then
<bigcalm> Hehe, yeah, should have stated dissolved o2
<arsen> what, you've never had Hydrogen Tea?
<arsen> Much harder to make than Oxygen tea though, just chew a teabag..
<bigcalm> Yum
<arsen> I digress - anyone able to suggest alternatives to OVH/Kimsufi? I want a new ubuntu server :<
<popey> i still dont see the problem â»
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't put more water than is necessary in the kettle when I make a coffee. It takes less time and uses less energy.
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Agreed, but it means then popey doesn't have time to empty his dishwasher
<TheOpenSourcerer> He could do it in stages...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Emptying is the easy bit. I have a constant battle with my wife over efficient Dishwasher loading strategies.
<AlanBell> if you don't have enough disolved oxygen in the water, fish might die
<popey> me too TheOpenSourcerer
<AlanBell> which is probably not a *huge* problem in a kettle
<MooDoo> I'm glad I don't have a dishwasher, sound to complicated ;()
<popey> wow
<popey> it's 2013 and there are people without dishwashers!
<bashrc> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Actually my Sister-in-law and family don't have one. Their kitchen is not big enough.
<directhex> we have a slim one
<TwistedLucidity> FYI: Amazon 240GB Crucial SSD deal starts at 1630 +0000. Currently Â£113
<penguin42> heck 350F capacitor
<dwatkins> I looked into getting an SSD, but I need at least 750 GB in my laptop, and they're still hugely expensive.
<MooDoo> don't need one to be honest....
<MooDoo> dishwasher that is
<penguin42> dwatkins: Has your laptop got a slot for mSATA ?
<directhex> dwatkins, 750GB? ._.
<TwistedLucidity> dwatkins: SSD in the case, USB3 for data?
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Efficient dishwasher loading strategy is not to let your wife load the dishwasher
<DJones> Although may be more self efficient if you always let her load it
<directhex> seagate sell "sshd" drives for laptops, which are a regular hard disk with 8gb transparent ssd cache in front
<SuperMatt> only those who have spent countless hours on tetris have good dishwasher skills
<directhex> faster than a normal disk
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mrs Lord is really rubbish at dishwasher loading. It gets on my moobs!
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: I thought GNU/Linux didn't work well with those hybrid-drives?
<penguin42> directhex: If you've got an mSATA slot somewhere then you can put a physically small SSD in that and still have the main drive
<directhex> TwistedLucidity, western digital's drives are driver-based. seagate's are transparent
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: Ah-ha! Thanks. Good to know.
<directhex> penguin42, yes. depending on the laptop, accessing the msata slot might suck
<penguin42> why?
<directhex> on wife's laptop you need to unscrew & remove the entire bottom of the laptop
<GentileBen> Does anybody here have a Gromdar?
<GentileBen> http://www.theonion.com/articles/inventor-of-gromdar-determined-to-put-a-gromdar-in,34633/
 * popey notes its the onion
<SuperMatt> you could probably replace "gromdar" with "the cloud" and it'd match about 90% of all cloud provider websites
<penguin42> SuperMatt: I was thinking more IoT
<SuperMatt> IoT?
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Deary me - not caught up with latest buzzwords?!  Internet-of-things
<SuperMatt> oh god, yes
<SuperMatt> I don't even know what internet of things means
<bashrc> internet of things is at least a decade old
<mungbean> ARM like to say it a lot
<SuperMatt> if it just means crativity on the web, I can't see why we didn't just call it that
<mungbean> IoT is prob as old as ipv6
<bashrc> it means gadgets with embedded web servers
<mungbean> its more like millions and zillions of devices all internet enabled
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hoorah! Sandwich van est arrive!!!
<penguin42> mungbean: Of course ARM like to say it a lot, they want it to be an IoA
<popey> looks like these guys will hit their goal http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/airtame-wireless-hdmi-for-everyone--2/x/1051579
<MartijnVdS> popey: a Chromecast clone?
<popey> no, wireless hdmi effectively
<popey> kinda chromecastlike but without the lockdown AIUI
<MooDoo> looks good
<penguin42> popey: But you can already buy wireless HDMI boxes
<penguin42> hmm they are a bit big and precey though
<mungbean> nigella lawson took cocaine "every day for a decade" :-|
<nigelb> wasn't it her ex that called her higella?
<DJones> mungbean: I always wondered why she used so much icing sugar in her cakes
<popey> heh
<popey> *sniff*
<nigelb> ha
<popey> Achievement unlocked: Made notpoodle lunch while tea brewed.
<TheOpenSourcerer> If she took it every day for a decade she'd have no septum left. I wouldn't believe everything you read in the media...
<mungbean> it was a claim made in court
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<mungbean> yet i still quoted " "
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh man: http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaE2lMwCQAEf5ZE.jpg:large nigelb is this for real?
<GentileBen> Yes - that python really did swallow all those burritos.
<GentileBen> http://www.hoax-slayer.com/giant-snake-swallows-woman.shtml TheOpenSourcerer
<nigelb> TheOpenSourcerer: Nope.
<nigelb> TheOpenSourcerer: I tweeted a correction too!
<GentileBen> 4 seconds of sleuthing on the internet.
<popey> nom nom nom notpoodle
<TheOpenSourcerer> I installed kazam this morning to make a simple and quick desktop recording. It was rubbish and failed to correctly capture the mouse pointer position.
<TheOpenSourcerer> So I installed recordmydesktop
<popey> file a bug?
<TheOpenSourcerer> That worked striaght away
<popey> kazam developer is very active
<popey> recordmydesktop is basically dead
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - but it *works* :-D
<popey> in some limited circumstances
<TheOpenSourcerer> Recording a desktop.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Kazam failed.
<popey> works here, as I said, file a bug
<penguin42> hmm I seem to remember coming a few bugs of kazam failing after a few seconds
<TheOpenSourcerer> bug #1092339   reported 2012-12-19
<lubotu3> bug 1092339 in gst-plugins-good "Cursor Position incorrect for windowed capture" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1092339
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> yay!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Phwaaarrr: https://twitter.com/AsmaKhanCooks/status/405681138112692224
<popey> nom
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/25/5146398/ibuypower-steam-machine-499-radeon-r9-270
<popey> shame it's AMD/ATI
<penguin42> why?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Presumably Valve recommend the h/w
<popey> I look forward to seeing Intel based Steam Boxes
<popey> I kid, I kid.
<penguin42> all the current consoles are AMD/ATI
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gah - I wish she'd stop these tweets: https://twitter.com/AsmaKhanCooks/status/405681819338952704
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time for a restorative stroll I think... Laterz.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, valve are providing reference. all valve prototypes are intel/nvidia
<directhex> penguin42, doesn't help fix fglrx though does it
<penguin42> directhex: Well I do use the open driver myself but I'm not a gamer; my experience previously with fglrx was that if you find the stable version for your hardware/kernel you're ok
<directhex> penguin42, my deep concern is that ati-powered steam machines will significantly harm the reputation of steamos, and linux as a gaming platform generally, to a sceptical public.
<directhex> penguin42, the only thing that matters - the ONLY thing - is that when little jimmy goes to GAME and buys a SteamOS box, it works when he gets it home & plugs it in. first time, seamless experience, every game runs. lots of steam games won't run on mesa *or* fglrx
 * penguin42 doesn't know Steam stuff, but yeh that's a reasonable requirement
<penguin42> directhex: My assumption is that a box like this will try and encourage more of the game vendors to get it to work, and with standardised hardware it's easier
<directhex> the HW isn't standardised at all
<penguin42> yeh, hmm
<penguin42> still, if it turns out to be a widespread config it might help
<directhex> and the game vendors can simply say "our engine needs OpenGL 4, Mesa only does partial OpenGL 3" or something
<SuperMatt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1450849_10153497873070464_985426125_n.jpg <- best Â£30 I ever spent!
<directhex> random example: Metro: Last Light is one of the most recent, graphically demanding games on Steam with a Linux port. It is possible to run it badly on mesa with a pile of workarounds (rendering errors everywhere). with fglrx it crashes on startup if you aren't using a beta driver
<penguin42> so the steamos these boxes run - is this a full image distributed by steam or what?
<mungbean> is using the apache module  mod_auth_ldap secure?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: secure how?
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't encrypt the request/response, if that's what you mean.
<mungbean> yeah :S
<directhex> yes it does
<directhex> well, it can
<directhex> if you configure it to use TLS or SSL
<directhex> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_auth_ldap.html#usingtls
<MartijnVdS> directhex: sure, but that's not part of mod_auth_ldap, that's mod_ssl :)
<directhex> um... what?
<MartijnVdS> LDAP by itself probably uses HTTP basic authentication?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ah this is for the connection back to the LDAP server
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I was thinking of the other side (user passing their password to the site)
<directhex> each session is as encrypted as you configure it to be. you really want ssl for browser->server and server->slapd
<Myrtti> snowball mic on discount
<popey> ooh
<popey> thats the one I have
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bombay Bad Boy for lunch :-D
<directhex> yum yum texturized soya
<GentileBen> TheOpenSourcerer, remeber to be TheOpenWindower.
<GentileBen> You don't want to poison your coworkers with your Pot Noodle farts.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great value in Sainsbury's 2 for Â£1.50.
<GentileBen> They used to be like 75p each before the collapse of the international banking system.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Funny - I don;t think HSBC collapsed...
<MartijnVdS> .. yet
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<arsen> wow, i didnt know people ate pot noodles still! i did discover Itsu make a large clone of them though, available in your local Waitrose!
<TheOpenSourcerer> That was surprisingly lovely...
<TheOpenSourcerer> itsu are also in sainsbury's arsen
<arsen> I took a few to Bestival - they weren't bad!
<GentileBen> I was wondering what an arsen was.
<GentileBen> "Do Sainsburys have arsens?"
<GentileBen> http://ask.slashdot.org/story/13/11/27/0111229/ask-slashdot-are-we-older-experts-being-retired-too-early So I read this article.
<GentileBen> An older person is complaining nobody will hire him, supposedly because he's old.
<GentileBen> Of course he casually mentions he puts on his CV that he'll only work from home.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm old.
<GentileBen> So it takes half a thread for Slashdotters to cotton onto this
<TheOpenSourcerer> He's a  contractor
<GentileBen> And then people start being sarcastic like, "You require to work remotely? Most managers cannot stand that - if you aren't there in the office so they can see that you are working, you must be goofing off, you cannot possibly be working. Judge you by your results? They wouldn't know how to do that, and they are far too harrassed/unimaginative/untrained to work out a method of doing it. "
<TheOpenSourcerer> And he's american "resume"...
<GentileBen> Which is bullshit.
<bigcalm> !ohmy | GentileBen
<TheOpenSourcerer> I gave up reading /. years ago.
<lubotu3> GentileBen: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<GentileBen> The reason nobody likes home workers is because it's damn near impossible to build a team out of people who are thousands of miles away.
 * bigcalm is liked :(
<GentileBen> What are you going to do, mandate a persistent group Skype video chat between everybody?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I know a local company that seems to be very successful at doing just that...
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you're getting pms?
<GentileBen> That's why they're contractors and not managers.
<popey> Works for us â»
<GentileBen> popey why the blackface?
<popey> its not black here
<GentileBen> It sure as hell is here.
<popey> â¹
<GentileBen> So anyway
<MooDoo> home working is fine, never heard of hangouts :p
<GentileBen> It's difficult to collaborate with people when you can't, you know, talk to them with the human ability known as speech.
<popey> http://imgur.com/M01rDEn
<MooDoo> sorry didn't see your last post lol
<popey> we use hangouts daily
<popey> and mumble
<GentileBen> I guess I'm just a people person!
 * penguin42 is going to be a permanent home worker from Monday - should be interesting
<GentileBen> Don't you get bored being by yourself all day? Unless you don't have your own office, that is.
<penguin42> GentileBen: I guess I'll find out, never done it before
<MooDoo> penguin42: you certainly need self control but when I get the chance to work from home I love it
 * penguin42 must make an effort to go to hackspaces and the like
<popey> dont get a chance to get bord
<popey> *bored
<GentileBen> MooDoo I actively refuse to work from home.
<GentileBen> I guess it's down to personal preference.
<MooDoo> GentileBen: as you said you must be a people person
<GentileBen> I average 3 WFH days a year.
<GentileBen> And those are due to colds/coughs.
<GentileBen> MooDoo, I don't have the discipline to not spend all day stuffing my face with crisps and watching Loose Women.
<GentileBen> I work in an open-plan building with 500 other people in the head office...you can't avoid human contact.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ZOMG!!!! http://mashable.com/2013/11/26/sprout-battery/
<GentileBen> But anyway back on point...
<GentileBen> The reason that guy isn't getting a job is because he's insisting on working from home, which few companies will tolerate from an engineer...why would they hire him when they can hire a bank of WFM Indians for the same cost?
<MooDoo> GentileBen: who you work for if you don't mind me asking
<GentileBen> Also, he's probably not followed common sense by only putting the last 10 years of experience on his CV.
<GentileBen> MooDoo I'd rather not say.
<MooDoo> not a problem
<GentileBen> I don't think Mark would be very happy if I let slip I work for Canonical.
<GentileBen> Oops.
<GentileBen> I mean
<GentileBen> I'd rather not say.
<MooDoo> canonical?  any good?  who are they and what do they do....I hear davmor2 is one of the bosses of that place ;)
<GentileBen> (I don't work for Canonical. Do they need Windows/Cisco/VMware architects? Probably not)
<GentileBen> MooDoo: it's a front org for the Debian Project.
<GentileBen> Don't worry, few people have heard of them.
<popey> my postman has â»
<GentileBen> Your postman has severe burns?
<popey> He has heard of "them"
<penguin42> GentileBen: In the larger companies that have people working on projects all around the world, working from home is less of an issue since you're less likely to be working with people in the same office on the same project anyway
<MartijnVdS> *cue creepy music*
<penguin42> GentileBen: And anyway if all the meetings involve 5 different countries it doesn't really matter if it also involves you on the other end of a line as well
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm not at all :P
<GentileBen> penguin42.........I know.......I work for a global company.
<GentileBen> But they're mostly office-based people, even if the offices are in India.
<GentileBen> penguin42, probably half my meetings are conference calls with people elsewhere in the country/world.
<GentileBen> Actually if you include any meeting with a concall it's more like 3/4.
<penguin42> nod
<GentileBen> Most of the WFM people I talk to are AMs and "people on the road" who work out of their cars.
<penguin42> hehe
<MooDoo> davmor2: what?  lies, I thought mark reported to you
<GentileBen> Our company has a hit squad of mobile assassins who travel around the country.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Excellent. Wifey is making a suitably stable dinner (Veg Lentil Stew & Rice) that I can not rush home and stop off at my local for a couple before migrating a client's CRM architecture later this evening. :-D
<GentileBen> Mark reports into davmor2? Is davmor2 Ian Murdock?
<davmor2> GentileBen: Umm No, MooDoo is just being silly
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: yeah but davmor2 reports to popey
<MooDoo> popey:  is god
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: No I don't
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: you can tell us! we won't judge you!
<MartijnVdS> (publicly)
<popey> Jane is Marks boss, and Mark is also Janes boss.
<bigcalm> davmor2: going to the LUG tonight?
<TheOpenSourcerer> New video from Jolla: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfAixpkzcBQ&feature=youtu.be
<andylockran> d/j/jo
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm planning on it just depends if I get down my never ending list of stuff that needs doing
<GentileBen> davmor2: come on Ian, don't be coy.
<arsen> id happily work from home with the occasional office trip, i'd just goto collab workspaces or something - plenty of nice "clubs" in london yuo can use as ofice space with similar people and nice environment, or for lazy days, work-from-bed. :)
<directhex> WFH is tough
<directhex> it tends to lead to cabin fever
<MartijnVdS> arsen: work-from-starbucks? ;)
<arsen> erp, id rather not :D
<bigcalm> Yep, which is why I force myself out. I do all of the shopping for instance
 * penguin42 reckons he is in walking distance of at least 2 full size supermarkets, so I do intend to at least have a good walk each lunch time
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone used Leaflet.js?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://leafletjs.com/
<GentileBen> penguin42, you're lucky.
<GentileBen> A lot of people aren't near any good shops.
<penguin42> GentileBen: It's about 20mins each way, so gives me a useful length walk
<bigcalm> Tesco is 7.4 miles (I get fuel there as well) from my house. Means I get a bit of a drive as well as interacting with "people"
<penguin42> bigcalm: Oh, you interact with people? I normally use the self-scan machines....
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> penguin42: when buying beer, there is interaction if you like it or not
<penguin42> looks like it's about 1.3 miles to each of the two closest supermarkets
<penguin42> there is a 3rd at about 2 miles, but that's too far to round-trip in a lunch time
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: not if you buy it online ;)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: (yes that's possible ;))
<arsen> reminds me - im' gona take advantage of an ocado-newbies offer for big discount on my first order this evening.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ocado are great.
<arsen> never tried! just got some deal for like Â£25 off a Â£60 order?!
<Azelphur> Lol, I posted my computer to /r/battlestations and it's been at the top for 24 hours now
<Azelphur> I think I got the most upvotes of all time
<Azelphur> \o/
<penguin42> ?
<Azelphur> penguin42: http://www.reddit.com/r/battlestations/ look at the top post :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Oh yeh
<penguin42> Azelphur: wth is the thing to the right with the fans on?
<Azelphur> WOOT WOOT, Bitcoin just hit $1000
<Azelphur> penguin42: radiator
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: are you rich again?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: 1000*111
<Azelphur> :)
<MartijnVdS> niiice :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Another couple of monitors then....
<MartijnVdS> a boat to come to .nl in ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> wow, mtgox lag is waaaay down
<MartijnVdS> compared to the last boom
<arsen> Azelphur  - lovely view! Do i spy ~36 terminals open ?! :D
<Azelphur> arsen: nah, that's IRC channels
<arsen> crazy.
<bashrc> should be 42 terminals
<arsen> You've heard of 'screen', and irssi windows right? :D
<arsen> I do like the look of the NSA style IRC monitoring station though - a direct contrast to the ship in your window.. :D
<MooDoo> NSA where?  have they hacked irc?  omg ;)
<bashrc> You can never escape from the eye of BB  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundless_Informant
<SuperMatt> I dun raised an adroid bug
<SuperMatt> https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=62924
<TwistedLucidity> SillyBoy
<penguin42> SuperMatt: You'll need a phone with this http://www.tactustechnology.com/ for that to work
<bigcalm> Wife is finally using Windows 7 on her new SSD, which is quite an improvement over Vista on a HDD
<bigcalm> Breathing life into a 4 year old laptop
<SuperMatt> Anything is an improvement over Vista
<NET||abuse> hi folks, trying to restore unity on an old machine which we tried installing the 173.x nvidia drivers binary on.
<NET||abuse> at the moment it comes up with 4 radio buttons saying "low graphics mode for just one session" and trouble shoot the issue and things like this
<NET||abuse> ultimiately i need to purge the nvidia driver and re-install nouveau, removing any module blacklists for nouveau
<directhex> that's the x.org fallback session
<arsen> Does anyone have any recommended Colo providers (UK), or maybe a reasonable Dedi provider (EU)? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> arsen: We rent h/w from Hetzner. They will do colo too but are in Germany.
<davmor2> SuperMatt: Windows 8 is a regression over vista at least with vista you knew where to look for apps if nothing else :)
<arsen> ah yes, i remember that name.
<SuperMatt> 8.1 is quite good though
<davmor2> SuperMatt: not seen 8.1 so can't comment on it.
<GentileBen> SuperMatt, Vista SP1 was fine.
<GentileBen> Vista's biggest problems were driver and app compatibility....and the fact people tried to install it on 5-year-old laptops.
<davmor2> GentileBen: No it wasn't,  It still used way too much resources.  Windows 7 should of been the vista release basically
<GentileBen> No, you don't understand what Vista was. They reworked basically everything, writing several stacks (video, audio, driver, printing, networking) from scratch.
<GentileBen> Of course it was going to require more resources.
<GentileBen> Under the hood, Vista was the biggest change since Windows moved to a 32-bit kernel.
<GentileBen> It *was* Microsoft's fault for not applying a feature freeze after they gave partners the beta, though.
<GentileBen> The likes of Nvidia were struggling with WDDM already, without MS changing stuff in a major way between B1 and B2.
<GentileBen> Anyway, back to ubuntu.
<directhex> 8.1 isn't quite good. but it papers over some of the worst 8.0 cracks
<GentileBen> 8.1's insistence that people use their *email account* to sign in is absurd.
<GentileBen> Google asks you to register your phone using an email address, but your device password is just a pin.
<GentileBen> MS ask you to type in your hotmail password every time, if you want everything to work properly.
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BQ8RM1A/ref=gb1h_tit_c-1_8827_6ed8f7ae?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=17VW6JP4BMSPRPQZQEYS&pf_rd_i=161428031&pf_rd_p=449478827
<popey> on offer, 96 quid for 240GB SSD
<directhex> GentileBen, you can do local accounts on windows 8, but that prevents installing apps from the app store
<dwatkins> I had a local account on Windows 8, but when I updated yesterday it pretty much forced me to supply my hotmail credentials.
<dwatkins> to clarify: I had only a local account until yesterday
<bigcalm> popey: that the same one as the other day? I'm guessing they didn't shift as many as they expected to
<SuperMatt> oh man, I must be tired
<SuperMatt> I tried to delete a folder with `sudo apt-get remove foldername`
<NET||abuse> ok, i got the machine to run the desktop again, nouveau driver operating except, at all times including login screen, and desktop, we have big white streak blocking out the bottom 25% of the screen
<NET||abuse> it didn't do that before.
<NET||abuse> but otherwise the whole thing seems to be operating.
<NET||abuse> SuperMatt: apt-allthethings
<NET||abuse> ok, so we got white block of streak at the bottom of the screen
<NET||abuse> even during booting off the netinstall cd
<NET||abuse> uh oh
<SuperMatt> screen failure?
<NET||abuse> changing screens right now, but i think not as the post screen is fine
<NET||abuse> it's only when the kernel is driving output, and i think the default it tries in nouveau
<NET||abuse> it's an old gpu, GeForce somethinganchient
<NET||abuse> the 173.x legacy nvidia driver has it listed as supported but then the installer says it's not... :(
<NET||abuse> and the 173 driver just didn't work
<NET||abuse> haha, it was the screen
<NET||abuse> amazing.
<arsen> me needs to build a BTC mining farm.
<GentileBen> arsen, too late.
<GentileBen> Only people with $$$ can afford the ASICs to mine BTC economically.
<arsen> if i had the $$$, what ASIC would i buy?
<arsen> the problem im finding is there's lots of "preorder" hardware that doesnt exist yet.
<GentileBen> I dunno.
<GentileBen> You could always mine via a botnet.
<davmor2> bigcalm: looks like I am going I've just past the point I wanted to get to today :)
<bigcalm> Oh no!
<bigcalm> I mean, yay
<bigcalm> Running a shell script from crontab as root uses "service gearman-job-server stop". Looking at the result in email, I see this:
<bigcalm>  * Stopping Gearman Server gearmand
<bigcalm> /etc/init.d/gearman-job-server: 64: /etc/init.d/gearman-job-server:
<bigcalm> start-stop-daemon: not found
<MartijnVdS> German Job Server?
<bigcalm>    ...fail!
<bigcalm> I'm not sure what to make of it
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: :P Gearman
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: is PATH different?
<arsen> sounds like a PATH / LD_LIB difference
<arsen> run a cronjob to 'echo $PATH > ~/path.txt'
<bigcalm> It's a cronjob run by root, I'm not sure why the path would no longer include /sbin
<directhex> cron jobs have empty $PATH
<arsen> ^
<MartijnVdS> directhex: really? I seem to remember mine had at least /usr/bin and /bin
<bigcalm> Oh, ah well
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> I'll have to set the path for the init script to not fail I guess
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: why are you using start-stop-daemon in an upstart job though? I thought upstart can do this by itself?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I didn't write the init script
<directhex> you're right, PATH=/usr/bin:/bin in cron
<directhex> and nothing else
<bigcalm> # cat ~/path.txt
<bigcalm> /usr/bin:/bin
<bigcalm> export PATH="$PATH:/sbin" ?
<directhex> or set the path in the cron script
<directhex> er, crontab
<arsen> PATH=$PATH:/blah; run_script.sh
<arsen> weirdly, i solved this exact problem last night.
<bigcalm> I don't need to export? Good
<MartijnVdS> arsen: without the ;
<bigcalm> Drop the ;?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "FOO=bar binary" runs "binary" with an extra environment variable "FOO" with value "bar"
<bigcalm> Okay
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you can also just put a line in crontab: PATH=foo
<MartijnVdS> it just sets the path explicitly for all following cron jobs
<arsen> i actually created a run_script.sh, set a load of stuff in there and called my binary.
<arsen> MartijnVdS  - thanks, didn't know that.
<MartijnVdS> arsen: like MAILTO lines
 * bigcalm keeps learning
<bigcalm> Thanks :)
<popey> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/27/hard-drive-bitcoin-landfill-site
<bigcalm> Unrelated to crontab (I think), anybody seen this before?No entry for terminal type "unknown";
<Myrtti> btw right now there's a DVD set of Gus von Sant's History of Film on the amazon deals
<Myrtti> it was shown in Finland in the summer - I can heartily recommend watching it
<arsen> seems like the current bitcoin retail miners (asics) arent that efficient compared to the new gen incoming
<Myrtti> I can't decide myself do I want to buy it or not, I've sank so much money on Amazon this week already
<arsen> Myrtti  - you'll regret NOT buying it :D
<arsen> I arrived at my desk on Monday morning and had spent Â£100+ by 09:00am :<
<directhex> steam sale, kiddies
<bigcalm> Ooo, tell us Daddy. What should we buy?
<bigcalm> Bioshock Infinite for Â£12.49
<bigcalm> That'll do me
<GentileBen> BioShock Infinite wasn't that great.
<GentileBen> Not as good as the original.
<GentileBen> Infinite doesn't have a fear factor - no splicers, no dark environments. ;_;
<bigcalm> Bus Simulator 2012?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: is that like Euro Truck Simulator?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: http://store.steampowered.com/app/253770/ you tell me :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: looks like it 8-)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: except the truck sim also exists for Linux
<directhex> don't buy games unless they're on a daily or flash sale, or it's the final day of the sale
<directhex> man, it's like you guys are new to this
<bigcalm> :P
<directhex> there are 2 levels of discount - "duration" for the length of the sale, and "promotional" if the game is a daily or flash sale. e.g. 50% and 75% off respectively
 * popey opens steam
<directhex> buy a game now at duration discount, it's guaranteed to be less 8 hours later as a promotional price
<popey> I want a game to replace Wolfenstein - Enemy Territory
<MartijnVdS> popey: Day of Defeat?
<MartijnVdS> (: Source)
<popey> ooh
 * MartijnVdS installs DoD:S
<davmor2> popey: Assult Cube?
<davmor2> popey: Warsaw
<GentileBen> popey: Wolfenstein.
<GentileBen> The, erm, new new one.
<GentileBen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfenstein:_The_New_Order
<GentileBen> The 2009 one sucked IMO.
<davmor2> popey: Counterstrike : source
<popey> i have cs:s
<davmor2> popey: doom3
<popey> ooh, there's another Wolf
<GentileBen> Did you play the 2009 one popey?
<GentileBen> It was ridiculously bad...like, almost on purpose bad.
<davmor2> popey: Medal of honor: Allied Assault
<directhex> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/27/hard-drive-bitcoin-landfill-site
<MartijnVdS> I sold at $100.
<MartijnVdS> <- oops
<popey> no
<GentileBen> Well I think it's going to crash again.
<GentileBen> Best time to buy is right after a crash, duh.
<GentileBen> But $1000? Damn.
<GentileBen> As an aside, people are now commenting on how Bitcoin is being treated as a commodity or stock, and not a currency. i.e. people are just trading $ for BTC, and not actually spending it.
<directhex> bitcoin *is* a commodity
<directhex> spending btc is http://www.rathergood.com/bullion
<GentileBen> Still...I wish I'd bought MartijnVdS's bitcoins.
<MartijnVdS> spending, or buying?
<Myrtti> http://abitcoinisworth.com/
<Myrtti> awww
<Myrtti> they've not updated it to work without mtgox :-(
<Myrtti> no wait they have but something else is broken
<ali1234> shows bitstamp price for me
<Myrtti> it's supposed to show a picture of something worth one bitcoin
<Myrtti> ah
<Myrtti> "This API is now sunset for all users other than Google Commerce Search customers."
<shauno> hehe .. I just got mail from my landlord, with the wrong surname
<shauno> apparently he's not entirely clear who lives here :)
<ivanka> hi popey, are you there?
<popey> http://www.cyanogenmod.org/blog/cyanogenmod-installer-application-removed-from-play-store
<brobostigon> yep.
<ali1234> totally justified
<ali1234> popey: you should submit ubuntu installer to microsoft app store :)
<ali1234> where "you" = canonical
<popey> heh
<popey> i was kinda surprised they even created the app in the first place. Seemed an odd way to do it.
<ali1234> the new cyanogenmod roms guide to to make a cyanogenmod "account", whatever that means, on first bootup
<ali1234> i don't like it
<ali1234> you can skip it, but meh. it's a bad sign
<Mydim3> hey
<Mydim3> can any of you mates help me?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Mydim3> ok
<Mydim3> i am trying to install steam on lubuntu and downloaded it then installed it and when i tried to run it i double clicked it and nothing happened.
<ali1234> how did you install it?
<Mydim3> by the package manager
<Mydim3> gdebi
<ali1234> hmm. which version lubuntu?
<Mydim3> saucy salamander
<ali1234> try running it from the command line: "steam"
<ali1234> see if it says any errors
<Mydim3> on the terrminal
<ali1234> it will probably say a lot, most of which are irrelevant
<directhex> kill any possible dead steam processes first, imho. pgrep steam | xargs kill
<ali1234> yeah
<Mydim3> ok killed all steam processes
<directhex> and just run "steam" in the terminal, rather than clicking the icon
<Mydim3> ok
<Mydim3> it says
<directhex> use paste.ubuntu.com for big pastes
<Mydim3> steam runtime is enabled automatically installing breakpad exception handler for appid(steam)/version(0_client)
<ali1234> that's all?
<Mydim3> yea
<ali1234> does it return to command prompt or just hang?
<Mydim3> just hang
<ali1234> weird
<directhex> ok. hit ctrl-c and try "steam --reset"
<Mydim3> cannot stat '/home/mydim3/.local/share/steam/bootstrap.tar.xz reset complete!
<Mydim3> what no?
<Mydim3> now?
<directhex> try "steam" again
<Mydim3> Running Steam on ubuntu 13.10 32-bit STEAM_RUNTIME is enabled automatically Installing breakpad exception handler for appid(steam)/version(0_client)
<Mydim3> same message
<Mydim3> do i kill the steam?
<Mydim3> its there but not opening
<ali1234> is your install 32 or 64 bit?
<directhex> yes, kill it
<directhex> try
<directhex> rm -r ~/.steam/steam/appcache/
<Mydim3> i installed 32 bit i think?
<Mydim3> rm -r ~/.steam/steam/appcache/ don't work
<Mydim3> it says can't be removed
<directhex> what does it say *precisely*?
<Mydim3> cannot remove â/home/mydim3/.steam/steam/appcache/â: No such file or directory
<directhex> rm -r ~/.local/share/Steam/appcache/
<Mydim3> i tried that
<Mydim3> i got teamviewer
<Mydim3> if you got teamviewer
<Mydim3> we can do that
<directhex> no, i don't
<directhex> i really need to go to sleep now
<Mydim3> night mate
<Mydim3> ali u got teamviewer
<ali1234> no, but i do have some things you can try
<Mydim3> ok
<Mydim3> lets get to work mate
<ali1234> try: sudo apt-get install xfonts-scalable
<Mydim3> its prosessing
<Mydim3> ok done
<Mydim3> it did a lot of things
<ali1234> this probably won't help, but you never know
<ali1234> try running steam again now
<Mydim3> do i try to run it?
<Mydim3> same error
<ali1234> hmmmm
<ali1234> ok, well, there's one way to find out what it is doing
<Mydim3> how
<ali1234> sudo apt-get install strace
<ali1234> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<ali1234> strace -f -e file steam 2> /tmp/strace.log
<ali1234> *wait for a while*
<ali1234> pastebinit /tmp/strace.log
<ali1234> post url it gives you here
<ali1234> hmm
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-28
<spencer7x7> hey everyone!
<spencer7x7> anyone know how to install Steam on Lubuntu 13.10?
<ali1234> same guy?
<spencer7x7> sorta im his bro and im helping him
<ali1234> well, you need to figure out why it hangs
<ali1234> strace will show you what it is doing, but you need to be able to interpret the output
<spencer7x7> I dont know, I tried uninstalling it installing it by this method:http://fosshelp.blogspot.com/2013/10/how-to-install-steam-client-on-ubuntu.html
<spencer7x7> strace how do you open that?
<ali1234> it's a command line program
<spencer7x7> so i type in strace steam?
<spencer7x7> okay i typed that and i got lots of text
<spencer7x7> lemme see how i can post it
<ali1234> you need to do: strace -f -e file steam 2>/tmp/strace.log
<spencer7x7> okay, now what?
<ali1234> now pastebinit /tmp/strace.log
<ali1234> then post the url it gives you
<spencer7x7> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6487270/
<ali1234> heh... massive
<ali1234> hmm... what specs does the computer have btw?
<ali1234> people usually put lubuntu on low spec machines... maybe it's just not good enough to run steam?
<spencer7x7> This has like 512MB of RAM
<spencer7x7> and Intel Pentium 4
<ali1234> what graphics card?
<spencer7x7> how do you check that?
<ali1234> lspci | grep VGA
<spencer7x7> Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)
 * penguin42 notes that strace has a SIGTRAP in - very odd
<ali1234> yeah i saw that
<ali1234> make me think maybe they don't want people debugging the steam binaries :)
<ali1234> although it loads up fine here in strace
<ali1234> execve("/bin/sed", ["sed", "s/32/64/"], [/* 57 vars */] -> what
<spencer7x7> i have no idea what does that mean
<penguin42> Asus 4k monitors starting to appear - at just under #3k for 31.5"
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> penguin42: i'll have two! ;)
<penguin42> ali1234: It's not bothered to show you the whole of the environment
<daftykins> lol running Steam on an 865G onboard
<ali1234> penguin42: i know, i was more like "why is it even running sed s/32/64/"
<penguin42> ali1234: Well that's the way to convert 32 machines into 64....
<ali1234> spencer7x7: what does "uname -a" say?
<penguin42> ali1234: Is it possible he has a 64bit steam download for his 64bit machine?
<penguin42> daftykins: To be fair it is a lot of pixels
<ali1234> it's a 32 bit steam according to an older paste
<penguin42> ok
<penguin42> ali1234: Being P4 I'm wondering if it's missing an instruction extension, one of the SSE...
<daftykins> if it's a pentium 4 like he said then it must be 32-bit right
<penguin42> there was one gen of 64bit
<spencer7x7> i search and the text "uname -a" does not appear
<ali1234> it's a command
<spencer7x7> oh okay
<ali1234> penguin42: yeah i thought that too, but then it should say "SIGILL" not "SIGTRAP"
<spencer7x7> Linux Mydim3s 3.11.0-13-generic #20-Ubuntu SMP Wed Oct 23 17:26:33 UTC 2013 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux
<ali1234> hmm, yes, definitely 32 bit
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh agreed, I'd also expect the SIGILL
<ali1234> also it should exit, not just hang
<ali1234> all this strace is doing all the standard dpkg stuff that steam does to install it's deps
<spencer7x7> so what do we do?
<ali1234> this is a hard one
<penguin42> ali1234: How about strace attach to the hung thing?
<spencer7x7> lemme try
 * penguin42 notes Steams hardware requirements just say 512MB RAM/1GHz or faster
<ali1234> maybe it's trying to do some network thing?
<spencer7x7> he has that
<penguin42> is there not some steam specific debug somewhere?
<daftykins> it must be querying Valve for client updates no?
<daftykins> if it's first run
<spencer7x7> just a bootstrap log, but its pretty useless
<spencer7x7> all it says is :[2013-11-27 19:28:51] Startup - updater built Nov 25 2013 18:07:05
<ali1234> ~/.steam/steam/logs/
<ali1234> there is only bootstrap_log.txt, and nothing else?
<spencer7x7> yeah
<spencer7x7> only bootstrap_log.txt
<penguin42> when it's hanging is it eating cpu or disk?
<ali1234> the thing is, when you "install" the steam.deb, it really only installs another installer
<ali1234> and it looks like the second installer is failing somehow
<spencer7x7> hmm weirsd
<spencer7x7> and its not eating CPU or RAM
<spencer7x7> its just doing nothing
<ali1234> then... it's waiting for something
<spencer7x7> should i reopen it?
<ali1234> just leave it for now
<spencer7x7> mkay
<ali1234> what processes are actually running?
<spencer7x7> lxtask and chrome
<ali1234> what does "pgrep steam" say?
<ali1234> (open a second terminal)
<spencer7x7> 3095
<ali1234> try: sudo strace -p3095
<ali1234> this will output a lot... or maybe nothing at all
<ali1234> but it will most likely say the same thing over and over
<penguin42> or be stuck in a select or poll
<ali1234> yes
<spencer7x7> it says "Process 3095 attached futex(0x96e9b0c, FUTEX_WAIT_PRIVATE, 1, NULL"
<penguin42> ah
<ali1234> ah?
<penguin42> that's difficult to track
<ali1234> means nothing to me :)
<spencer7x7> brb gotta eat
<penguin42> ali1234: It means it's waiting for some other process
<ali1234> o_O
<ali1234> like, dpkg?
<ali1234> AH
<ali1234> lubuntu = no consolekit?
<penguin42> ali1234: Well it's pretty much impossible to tell at that point
<ali1234> it's popping that thing that says "you need to install these dependencies", and that is trying to do consolekit on dbus... and lubuntu doesn't have it
<penguin42> yeh waiting on dbus is reasonable
<penguin42> dbus-monitor perhaps?
<ali1234> so maybe the fix it: sudo apt-get -f install
<ali1234> which steam normally does for you, but apparently can't for some reason
<daftykins> doesn't the deb just install some dependancies 0o
<daftykins> seems a bit of an oversight
<ali1234> no if you install it with dpkg
<daftykins> oic
<ali1234> or maybe gdebi, if you downloaded it manually
<daftykins> ah yes, the graphical way is no way :>
<ali1234> anyway, steam does check for this and tries to fix it, but maybe it can't in lubuntu
<daftykins> you know, if it were me, i'd have just re-run it as root for fun
<daftykins> to see if it made any difference XD
<ali1234> i haven't done that in years :)
<daftykins> which i know is totally stupid
<ali1234> not since i used gentoo probably
<daftykins> the masochists distro
<ali1234> no, that's suse
<daftykins> how is suse worse 0o
<ali1234> yast.
<daftykins> hateful package management?
<ali1234> yast isn't just a package manager
<ali1234> it configures everything on the whole system. and if you don't use it, it eats your config files
 * penguin42 had this laptop running opensuse for a while - it wasn't THAT bad
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> opensuse fixed a lot of the problems with it. but last time i used suse was like... 2002
<ali1234> i have the boxed edition somewhere still
<ali1234> 8 CDs and 3 manuals
<penguin42> yeh I've got a SuSE for Alpha box set from about 2000ish
<daftykins> lol 3 manuals, ouch
<ali1234> anyway gentoo seemed like an improvement at the time, due to it's hands-off approach to letting you configure everything the way you want
<spencer7x7> k back
<ali1234> spencer7x7: try this: sudo apt-get -f install
<ali1234> er, kill steam first
<spencer7x7> does the fact that is says "The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:" have anything to do with it?
<ali1234> no
<spencer7x7> and something about autoremove
<ali1234> no, that's fine
<spencer7x7> okay now what
<ali1234> anything else?
<spencer7x7> cause other than that text, that command did nothing
<daftykins> in your situation since nothing is happening, it'd be more likely due to missing packages rather than having something extra :>
<spencer7x7> maybe Lubuntu has some packages Ubuntu doesnt have?
<ali1234> yes, quite possibly
<ali1234> but the steam.deb doesn't have a dependency on them, so there's no way to know what they might be
<daftykins> maybe someone has them written up somewhere?
<ali1234> no, tried googling
<ali1234> the only thing that came up was xfonts-scalable but that didn't help
<penguin42> could install ubuntu-desktop if you have the space
<penguin42>  (don't need to use it)
<ali1234> well all i can think of is doing a full strace to find what it's waiting on
<daftykins> spencer7x7: what games do you really hope to run on that ancient machine anyway? :D
<daftykins> i mean is it even worth it?
<spencer7x7> i dunno its my bros idea
<spencer7x7> hey im the first guy who asked mydim3
<spencer7x7> and i think this computer can run team forrtress
<daftykins> ah yeah
<daftykins> as in classic
<spencer7x7> no i mean the 2nd
<spencer7x7> i think it can run it
<spencer7x7> this pos is not that bad
<ali1234> spencer7x7: so, we're going to do this the hard way i guess. open two terminals, kill steam if it's running, then do: strace -f steam 2>/tmp/steam.log
<daftykins> onboard 865 graphics? hmm i really don't think so
<ali1234> then in the other terminal do: tail -f /tmp/steam.log
<ali1234> wait until it starts outputing the same thing over and over (that thing about FUTEX probably) and then kill the strace in the first terminal
<ali1234> then check how big the log file is
<spencer7x7> 1st terminal just stopped
<ali1234> yeah it will
<ali1234> it shouldn't output much of anything at all
<ali1234> everything should go to the second one
<spencer7x7> 2nd one is put out some text and just got stuck
<ali1234> what's the last thing it said on the second?
<spencer7x7> exited with 0
<ali1234> full line?
<spencer7x7> +++ exited with 0 +++
<ali1234> first terminal is still running?
<spencer7x7> yeah
<ali1234> did you put -f?
<spencer7x7> its not throwing new text
<spencer7x7> yes
<spencer7x7> i put -f
<ali1234> did you kill steam before doing this?
<spencer7x7> yes
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> how big is the /tmp/steam.log?
<spencer7x7> lemme see
<spencer7x7> wheres the log file?
<spencer7x7> sorry for the lame question
<ali1234> /tmp/
<spencer7x7> hmm, its pretty big
<spencer7x7> like 45000+ lines
<ali1234> how many MB is it?
<spencer7x7> 3.9
<ali1234> ok, do this: tail -n 2000 /tmp/steam.log | pastebinit
<spencer7x7> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6487445/
<spencer7x7> should we just install wine and put steam?
<ali1234> heh
<ali1234> personally i think you should install xubuntu instead lubuntu... i know steam works on that
<daftykins> TF2 so won't run well :D
<spencer7x7> naw lubuntu i think is better because its a old computer and people said use lubuntu it's lightweight
<spencer7x7> im mydim3
<spencer7x7> now
<ali1234> if your computer can't run xubuntu it definitely can't run TF2...
<spencer7x7> it can run it but
<spencer7x7> its a hassle to install it.
<spencer7x7> i already like lubuntu
<daftykins> may have to give up on Steam then
<spencer7x7> its better to get wine
<spencer7x7> and then steam
<ali1234> you can try it
<daftykins> lol trust me it's way too crap to WINE a game
<ali1234> can't hurt... and there's more games that work in wine
<ali1234> plus wine is usually faster than windows
<spencer7x7> i know right
<spencer7x7> ali its me mydim3
<spencer7x7> not spencer7x7
<daftykins> "/nick nickname"
<mydim3> cool
<mydim3> ok
<mydim3> its the owner of the computer
<mydim3> how do i get wine?
<ali1234> it's in the software center
<mydim3> which one??
<mydim3> there are 3 options
<mydim3> playonlinux?
<mydim3> ali
<mydim3> hello?
<mydim3> everyone left?
<daftykins> what are the three you see?
<daftykins> actually just look up whatever game you're going to want to try and run for a guide
<ali1234> i dunno how you install stuff in lubuntu ...
<mydim3> hey any of you know elsword?
<ali1234> i would just do "sudo apt-get install wine"
<ali1234> then you follow some guide for how to install steam in wine
<ali1234> basically download steam.exe for windows and then wine steam.exe
<MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/once-great-ssd-manufacturer-ocz-filing-for-bankruptcy/
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> wow.
<MartijnVdS> They were one of the first SSD manufacturers, and some of their early devices had high failure rates
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> it didn't seem like they really had as much of a share of the market as they should, for how early and big a name they were on things
<daftykins> no wonder they were so tight about refunding me when my RAM broke :P
<MartijnVdS> wasn't someone sending back their SSD under warranty?
<MartijnVdS> +in here
<daftykins> err possibly
<daftykins> was bit bigcalm who had one or two die 0o
<MartijnVdS> I think so. aq was the other one, but I don't know if that was an OCZ drive
<MartijnVdS> Good thing Amazon's black friday deal SSDs are Crucials ;)
<MartijnVdS> oh and a Kingston (in ~12 hrs)
<daftykins> so weird that stuff coming to the UK too
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: even amazon.de is doing it
<daftykins> it's like there's not even any difference between the UK and US now
<MartijnVdS> hm, Hugh Laurie's album in 8 hrs
<daftykins> 8hrs?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah, on their "Upcoming deals" list, they show that in 8 hours time, they'll have a deal on tha
<MartijnVdS> t
<daftykins> aaah
<daftykins> i get ya
<daftykins> just looking at the SSDs section now
<daftykins> although i don't need anything :)
<knightwise> morning everyone
<mungbean> morning
<knightwise> hey mungbean
<knightwise> do you by chance know anything about lmde ?
<knightwise> for the life of me i"m unablet to find a way to run a remote desktop server on it
<mungbean> nope :(
<mungbean> try x2go
<knightwise> x2go, does that support rdp ?
<mungbean> ah try xrdp
<knightwise> looks like the server is running
<knightwise> hmm.. xrdp works,  but it starts up a different session
<knightwise> not remote control the session i'm currently using
<MooDoo> morning all :)
<MooDoo> seen this?  got a quote to send in, I've done mine - http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=8762
<MartijnVdS> \o all
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "Bodyshots." - M. Shuttleworth (source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSxAoxwYyxE)
<knightwise> Hey everyone !
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise
<popey> Morning
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> I need to buy a colour laser multi function printer
<popey> "multi" in this case only really means print and copy, dont need the fax bit
<knightwise> grr , cant believe the only way to simply remote access a 'current' session on an LMDE machine via RDP is through some complicated hack
<MartijnVdS> popey: if you want something that's well-supported in Ubuntu, HP and Brother tend to be good
<popey> yeah, HP are my usual go-to
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have an HP colour laser printer (no scanning feature), which is amazing
<TheOpenSourcerer> We've used Xerox and Kyocera before with no real issues either. TBH I don't think printers is that much of an issue anymore...
 * knightwise hasn't had a printer in years
<popey> it'll mostly be used from a mac anyway
<TheOpenSourcerer> Been using Xerox for the last lasers and they've performed well and lasted well. And have replacement toner that costs less than a new printer - amazingly.
<MartijnVdS> popey http://tweakers.net/categorie/922/printers/producten/#filter:NcyxCoAgFIXhdzmzQ1aE-gBuPUE0iN5BEI1rtITvng5NBz5-zovCgdhGSgEG1RcmCFwcPe0xw0wC9SJvY7qJK8yLeZHz2MclmAN62nA2MXgd7HIYLHGKP1Fa9U-ldQ9b-wA
<MartijnVdS> popey: correction, that's both b/w and colour laser printers with scanning features.
<MartijnVdS> http://tweakers.net/categorie/922/printers/producten/#filter:VcyxDoQgEATQf5maQsUY4APsrrrSWBDYggtRs5hrDP_ukovFVZu8mdkLO0fiOVGOcDg4fQrUD987n2K-BBFJAr3SBtcplIPCnPJJXOAuDLof2v36DLfAdhPWqhqPjf0WG_dY1VMx1shPY-1T1H97LVzrDQ
<MartijnVdS> this is colour-only
<MartijnVdS> It seems to like the HP Laserjet Pro 100 M175nw
<popey> heh, thats the one I found last night and left open in amazon to look at
<MartijnVdS> popey: there are 2 versions, one with just USB2 and one with ethernet and wifi as well
<MartijnVdS> popey: (which is only â¬30 more expensive, but so worth it ;))
<popey> yeah, needs to be networked
<popey> it'll be hidden in a cupboard
 * popey goes to measure cupboard.. 441x421x338, or 441x380x441 with everything open
<popey> \o/ it will fit
<popey> looks like we have a winner
<popey> Â£210 from printware
<MartijnVdS> How do you distinguish the USB version and the ethernet/wifi version on amazon?
<popey> CE866A vs CE865A
<popey> it also has nw on the end of the model number
<MartijnVdS> also, M175a vs M175nw apparently
<popey> 190 on ebay
<popey> Bought!
<popey> thanks for the help
<MartijnVdS> np
<popey> once it arrives I might look at making a sliding shelf for it
<dvrr> good morning  all
<MooDoo> good morning
<dvrr> TLS key negotiation failed to occur within 60 seconds (check your network connectivity)     how to resolve openvpn   client problem
<dvrr> TLS Error: TLS handshake failed
<dwatkins> mornin!
<popey> pip pip
<dvrr> popey
<MooDoo> dvrr - does this help? - http://openvpn.net/index.php/open-source/faq/79-client/253-tls-error-tls-key-negotiation-failed-to-occur-within-60-seconds-check-your-network-connectivity.html
<popey> dvrr: ?
<dvrr> openvpn server   TLS key negotiation failed to occur within 60 seconds (check your network connectivity)     how to resolve openvpn   client problem
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> https://fund.arkos.io/ so close
<TheOpenSourcerer> Don't forget AlanOS too: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5292412 ;-)
<popey> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/xbox-one-juddering-plagues-uk-tv-watchers
<popey> oof
<TheOpenSourcerer> rotflmao
<MooDoo> oh deal "known issue but has declined to comment" ooops
<TheOpenSourcerer> My kids said they wanted a xbone but I said nope. Not having that in our house. Don't like the "always on" nature of the kinect stuff... Will steer them gently towards some version of the Steam box next year.
<MooDoo> wii in our house, althogh just bought laddo his first ds
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have a Wii and an xbox 360
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh help... I'm looking at chilli seeds... Again.
<directhex> we have a wii in our house
<directhex> plus some other odds and sods
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: cross breed them and create an ubuntu coloured one. ;)
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, have they given a reason for xbone over ps4 or wiiu?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not really directhex just "it's new" so it must be better ;-)
<directhex> ps4 isn't out until tomorrow, it's even newer!
<directhex> (in the uk)
<TheOpenSourcerer> They spend too long gaming anyway.
<TheOpenSourcerer> They have enough right now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am inclined to support Steam - if the device looks any good - next year.
<MooDoo> can't get my daughter off the ipad with peppa pig games at the moment.
<diplo> popey: Know much about the arkos ?
<MartijnVdS> argos?
<directhex> archos?
<diplo> Looks the sort of thing work people could use. https://fund.arkos.io/
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Bit like this one you mean? http://www.hot-pain.de/files/forum/images/sorten/Bhut_Orange_Kopenhagen_Frucht_reif1.jpg
<popey> diplo: only what you see on the site
<diplo> OK, just downloaded Genesis to have a looksy :)
<popey> yeah, i had a play
<diplo> Thoughts ?
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: fab lol
<popey> diplo: it's not finished â»
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: I can't see myself getting an Xbone or PS4 anytime in the next 3 years. The kids still play xbox classic and 360, and wii
<directhex> i currently plan to ignore the xbox one
<MartijnVdS> I'm planning to ignore both xb1 and ps4
<diplo> Same here, kids love the ps3. Got them infinity and the swap force game
<directhex> but in the general case, i want to see a gaming experience on xbone or ps4 which was impossible on 360 or ps3, before splashing out
<diplo> And I rarel yused my 360 or ps3 when the kids aren't about
<MooDoo> directhex: my lad loved infinity, now wants swap force, but not for christmas me thingks
<directhex> the wii u has gaming experiences which were impossible on prior hardware
<MartijnVdS> diplo: get them Lumines Supernova :)
<diplo> Wasssat ? MartijnVdS :)
<directhex> MooDoo, it was on yesterday's amazon black friday
<directhex> diplo, a colour matching block game
<MartijnVdS> with matching music
<diplo> directhex: I'm just waiting for the bugs, maybe another year or so until a PS4
<MooDoo> directhex: we got him a 3ds for christmas this year, that's enough
<diplo> Ah right, they have stuff like that on the tablet
<AlanBell> morning all
<directhex> MooDoo, we got ourselves a 3ds for xmas this year
<diplo> Talking of tablets, does anyone or has anyone know how to root /rom a 2nd Gen Kindle Fire
<MartijnVdS> diplo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pk51iTZx00
<AlanBell> can someone confirm this bug? Bug #1232015
<lubotu3> bug 1232015 in xmlrpc-c (Ubuntu) "libxmlrpc-core-c3 replaces libxmlrpc-c3 but does not provide it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232015
<diplo> God I hate that interface!!!!
<MartijnVdS> oh thats not moving
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: That part of my chilli seed collection that I want to grow next year: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6488619/
<MooDoo> directhex: yeah don't think he needs one of them yet but the 3ds games do work on the 2ds but without 3d
<MartijnVdS> diplo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVAyiRhzPLg that one is :)
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I may be contacting you at some point as I want to try again with the chilli growing.
<diplo> heh Xbox One add at the start, wonder if they have paid to load their ads at anythin gwith PS3/4 :)
<diplo> That sounds like it would drive me insane fairly quickly MartijnVdS, but my eldest would probably like it.
<dwatkins> Why didn't they call the Model B Raspberry Pi with more memory the Model B+?
<directhex> there are no games on xbone or ps4 at launch which could not have been on ps3/360 at a slightly lower resolution.
<MartijnVdS> diplo: I have it on the PSP. You start to dream of it, like when you've played too much Tetris
<directhex> hell, half the launch games *are* on the ps3/360 at a slightly lower resolution
<diplo> Exactly why I haven't even looked yet
<directhex> and the rest are not new. Ryse on xbone is just god of war, which is just streets of rage
<directhex> new experiences please
<MartijnVdS> directhex: like the Stanley Parable?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, that's another way to play the idea, sure. but i think the problem with indie games is they're most common on pc and smartphone... why buy a steamos box for indies when you could pay less for ouya?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, but even from the big names
<directhex> MartijnVdS, example: the first big budget next-gen game, when the 360 and ps3 shipped, was Dead Rising on the 360. the processing power of the 360 enabled a totally new type of apocalypse compared to what could run on the ps2 or xbox or gamecube
<directhex> even with 2-colour textures and 30-polygon models, that game wouldn't have been possible on ps2
<directhex> which we know from experience, thanks to the wii "port" which decreased zombie numbers by about 10x, making a totally different game
<directhex> compare the crowd density (therefore the whole experience of how to survive a zombie horde) between http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxzREqJjeUA#t=33 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf5TmwAo_l4
<directhex> (the second video is from the 2nd game, but that's an unchanged detail)
<MooDoo> wow ubuntu irc mailing list is quiet :)
<Laney> like the ubuntu mailing lists irc channel
<MooDoo> Laney: I'm just looking at other ubuntu opportunities, always the same though, must be an ubuntu member :)
<mungbean> why did i receive a letter from google about adsense?
<mungbean> a paper one to my house
<MooDoo> cheque payment?
<mungbean> adsense pin
<mungbean> not sure i use adsense
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: adsense is for business buying ads
<MartijnVdS> businesses*
<popey> bah, nice frying pans on lightning deals are non-induction
<MooDoo> I use it on my blog
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy French Toast Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<popey> Bonjour!
<MartijnVdS> hmmm french toast
<mungbean> youtube ad earnings?
<mungbean> i thoughtg they only got paid after $1000
<mungbean> $100
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: French toast is called "Wentelteefjes" in Dutch. I'll leave you to figure out the literal translation of that ;)
<MooDoo> mungbean: the threshold is Â£60
<MartijnVdS> so, $100
<MooDoo> ah yes lol
<MartijnVdS> my brother used to get a lot of extra money from Amazon affiliate links
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, my South African wife tells me the second part looks ike something not very complimentary in Afrikaans. ;)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: "wentelen" = "to turn", "teefje" = "little female dog" :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I make about a Â£1.00 every other day lol
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, yep, that just about matches. :)
<directhex> aha. skylanders giants is on black friday at 12:15pm
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: this explores the etymology of the word: http://vorige.nrc.nl/krant/article1629651.ece/Wentelteefje
<MooDoo> popey: just reviewing old irc council mailing list archives, seems ages ago [was feb 2008] that ownership of the channel was moved from loudmouthman :D
<MooDoo> not heard that name in awhile :D
<aquarius> Someone want to do me a favour? Go to https://www.medion.com/lenovoserviceshop/registerPage1 and see if it'll let you change the country field from "Germany" to something else?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, understood every word! :-P
<diplo> directhex: ooh I'll have to look at that, kids love that game
<popey> i never see that name because he has me blocked everywhere
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: no
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> aquarius: not here either
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: (as in "no it won't let me change it")
<aquarius> how extremely irritating
<JamesTait> aquarius, the label changes, the language doesn't.
<directhex> aquarius, yes. but it's in german & euros anyway
<aquarius> directhex, change the language to English at the top
<JamesTait> aquarius, hang on.
<aquarius> ah!
<JamesTait> aquarius, there's a drop-down, then a language.
<aquarius> yes
<aquarius> I have to change the country selection to United Kingdom. Not just the language to English.
<aquarius> thanks, lenovo. Thenovo.
<JamesTait> aquarius, see, problem-solving like that is why I completed Riddling. :-P
<aquarius> ooh, you completed it? Nice one!
<aquarius> and without help from me :
<aquarius> :)
<JamesTait> aquarius, I really enjoyed it. :)
<JamesTait> Though you were called a few choice names along the way. ;)
 * aquarius grins
<aquarius> that's the idea
<JamesTait> I thought as much.
<aquarius> cross-platform version coming once my designer gets off his arse
<aquarius> then, maybe, Riddling 2 :)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: does this make you The Riddler
<MartijnVdS> ?
<TwistedLucidity> aquarius, how about passing it through Google Translate?
<MooDoo> oops I meant this list https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/ thanks for the clarification AlanBell :)
<aquarius> TwistedLucidity, it's sorted now -- you have to explicitly set the country in the header at the top, not just the language
<TwistedLucidity> aquarius, ah; OK. I was going to mention the two settings. I didn't spot the language at first. Grey on gray. Smart!
<aquarius>  6 to 8 digits, containing small and large letters and numbers
 * aquarius shoots whoever came up with that policy.
<MartijnVdS> weird password policy?
<aquarius> it must be complicated! but not too long!
<aquarius> CREATE TABLE USERS (PASSWORD CHAR(8))
<AlanBell>  /o\
 * MartijnVdS takes something to get rid of the headache that caused
<aquarius> oh good, an email with subject "Ihre Anfrage im Lenovo Serviceshop"
<TwistedLucidity> It must be easy for a computer to brute force, but hard for a human to remember. :-S
<aquarius> Of course you can get service information! First you have to call a number which costs 15p per minute. Then you have to go to a website in a different language which has only been open for two weeks and doesn't have the parts you want. Then you have to sign up and hope they get back to you with parts availability.
<aquarius> finally you must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest.
<aquarius> gordon bennett.
 * popey notes aquarius should have bought warranty â»
<aquarius> popey, I didn't for reasons outlined: I don't want someone to come in and reimage my machine with Windows before they'll even look at it.
<popey> thats an incorrect assumption
<popey> they flat out do not do that
<aquarius> Well. Bear in mind I bought the machine in PC World. I specifically asked them about that, and they specifically told me that's what they'll do. Now, I'm sure that that was the PC World warranty rather than the Lenovo warranty, but on the basis of this little experience I can't think that Lenovo would be all shining lights of loveliness.
<popey> wat
<popey> well, there you go
<aquarius> This customer support experience is so dreadful that I am seriously considering spending Â£1000 on the new Sputnik rather than Â£40 on a replacement SSD, assuming that the replacement SSD is actually available at any point.
<popey> lesson learned about buying in pcworld
<popey> i have had to call lenovo twice for this laptop, they don't give a toss what's installed on it
<aquarius> Gotta love it when the machine's own hardware maintenance manual has "TBD" as the Lenovo part number for a part.
<popey> had the mobo and the display replaced
<popey> for 45 quid that strikes me as excellent value for money
<TwistedLucidity> aquarius, in PC World they probably will. Use Clonzilla or something similiar before handing it over. And delete and sensitive files.
<aquarius> popey, I bought it in PC World because, if it threw a seven two weeks in, I had a shop to take it back to rather than hours on the phone and then a week without the machine
<popey> which reminds me, that probably runs out soon
<popey> again
<popey> with lenovo they dont take it away
<popey> its repaired on site
<aquarius> popey, now, that might have been a bad tradeoff in retrospect, but I did think about it.
<popey> the guy has come to my house twice and repaired it on my kitchen table
<aquarius> It's repaired on site *if* you bought the on-site warranty :)
<popey> yes
<popey> which you would be a fool not to
<popey> oh
<aquarius> and by the look of this it's quite likely that he wouldn't have the replacement part in his van
<arsen> ooh i didnt know they did that, sounds good service popey.
<popey> no
<popey> assumption again aquarius
<popey> stop doing that
<TwistedLucidity> popey Had pretty much the same experience yesterday with Lenovo. Got registered, they checked the warranty, after that they didn't give a damn. All sorted.
<popey> you phone them up and they get the engineer the part then he comes to your house
<popey> he does drive round in a van full of parts rattling around
<popey> JIT
<AlanBell> aquarius is having a Victor Meldrew kind of day
<bashrc> :)
<aquarius> popey, ya, but the drive has not blown up. It has thrown a couple of errors. I am replacing it as preventative maintenance, not because it's dead.
<popey> its dead enough to be a warranty replace IMO
<aquarius> I'd like to believe that a nand flash chip which throws one error is itself a warranty replacement, but that seems... at best a subject for debate, I think, rather than intuitively obvious
<popey> mind you, the SSD in my lenovo wont be covered by warranty because I bought it and installed it myself
<popey> but then I can do that because it's a *proper* laptop
<popey> not one of these silly ultrabook nonsense devices â»
<popey> wonder how much lenovo want for the part
<popey> bet it's not pretty
<aquarius> Yes. A few people have said that. You can choose replaceable parts, or you can choose something that looks nice, or you can choose a Macbook and struggle with Ubuntu on it.
<aquarius> fantastic.
 * popey notes lots of canonical people have macbooks
<aquarius> actually, assuming they are prepared to actually sell me the part, it's forty quid.
<aquarius> which I am more than fine with.
<popey> thats pretty good!
<popey> http://imgur.com/JzpLEfm #learnfinnish !
<aquarius> lots of canonical people do. They fall into a couple of categories. The first is OS X users who happen to also sometimes run Ubuntu. The second is pure Ubuntu users who like doing things like running a different kernel and understanding what "refit" means.
<aquarius> hence looking at the Sputnik
<aquarius> the machine I had least trouble with, and the one where I was hugely impressed with the service when there was a hardware problem, was the Dell I bought with Ubuntu on it. Perhaps this was a lesson.
<popey> nope
<popey> Robert Carr
<popey> user of macbook, doesn't fall into either of your categories
<aquarius> yeah, Robert Carr, he doesn't like fiddling about with stuff at a low level, does he? :)
<popey> heh
<popey> i accosted him over 18 months ago when i saw him with a macbook air
 * Myrtti ponders about the Amazon lightning deals again
<popey> i was surprised he had one "any good" "yes". "Any problems with ubuntu" "no"
<Myrtti> Amazon seems to have overabundance on SSD's
<TwistedLucidity> aquarius I'd never buy Dell. Cheap tat sold for a high price. Seen far too many Dell desktops and laptops blow (literally) to ever touch them again.
<TwistedLucidity> I can, however, recommend ThinkPads. Certainly the previous gen (Tx30 series). The new gen might have issues with the click-pads.
<aquarius> I liked my Dell, and shipping a good modern machine with Ubuntu on it is a good sign. And Laura has one and likes it :)
<aquarius> I hate thinkpads. :(
<MooDoo> my dell works fine with ubuntu on it
<TwistedLucidity> aquarius Well, that just shows how wrong you are! :-D
<arsen> last job i had i ran buntu on mac for a year, then moevd to OS X :/
<TwistedLucidity> Dell may well have improved, but coming in to find you desktop a smokey ruin is never fun.
<Myrtti> my Dells have all ran Ubuntu fine
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: I have the XPS12 (bought when the old sputnik became unavailable, but before the new one was announced)
<aquarius> right, this is my point. The recommendation I get is "buy a thinkpad". I say "I don't like how they look", and the response is "well, you should like it". No thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: if the new Sputnik is anything like it, it's *amazing*
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: My current Dell doesn't. PITA.
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, what specifically do you like about it?
<arsen> for me, aquarius - its Lenovo or Macbook Air. the Lenovo ultrabook looks very nice.
<aquarius> also, I would like to not spend a grand on a laptop if i don't have to
<Myrtti> TwistedLucidity: mind you, Latitudes and Optiplexi
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: its CPU (Haswell i7) with matching battery life (6-7 hours)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: it's light, has mini-DP. And the touchscreen works 8-)
<MartijnVdS> (but I never use it)
<aquarius> arsen, the lenovo ultrabook (first generation, u300s) is exactly what I have. And it has a weird non-standard nandflash chip instead of a normal SSD, which is why I'm having all the problems
<arsen> arh :< no fun!
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: it's not just mSATA?
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, no.
<MartijnVdS> that's just WrongÂ®
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> aquarius: your kid rocks!
<aquarius> popey, I'd be interested to see someone's response to "did it install trivially?" Bunch of "tutorials" out there about how to install Ubuntu on new macbooks, with "edit the kernel boot line" and so on. A tutorial should be "put the disc in: click install". If it's more complicated than that, it worries me because I don't want to have to sod about with it. I want something that actually is designed to work :(
<aquarius> czajkowski, yes. Yes, she does.
<MooDoo> good morning czajkowski :)
<popey> aquarius: that does work now
<popey> the only thing you have to do is hold a key down during boot to get the boot menu
<MooDoo> aquarius: a very proud moment :D
<popey> aquarius: mirv seems happy with his asus ultrabook
<aquarius> popey, not according to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2184760 at least, which was less than a month ago. Maybe trusty works, but I'm not running trusty yet.
<aquarius> popey, yeah, the Asus does seem nice. I like the idea of buying a machine with Ubuntu on it, though, because that sort of thing should be supported.
<popey> ah, brand new machine
<popey> yeah, unsurprised by that
<aquarius> I'd go system76 except that I think all their machines look horrid. (And lots of people have complained, which gives me pause.)
<popey> also, I note your U300 didn't work out of the box either when you got it!
<popey> you had to do some fiddling IIRC?
<popey> yes, system76 machines look like rebadged clevo generic laptops (which is exactly what they are)
<aquarius> popey, I know it didn't, and that's what I'm trying to avoid this time. Having to work with david henningson to make the sound work was unbelieveably irritating. (Not him: he's nice. Having to do it at all.)
<popey> yeah
<popey> so.. dell xps 13
<popey> hard work done by the lovely PES guys
<popey> it's currently top of my next laptop list
<popey> only thing that holds me back is lack of decent size ssd
<aquarius> popey, this is my point, yeah. I don't want to have to buy a two year old machine just so it works. This might be overweening entitlement, but I flamin' well *ought* to be able to have all of (a) Ubuntu (b) a new machine (c) no problems. The idea that I ought to just accept that I'm only allowed old computers because I run Ubuntu really irritates me. Hence wanting to support someone making that possible, and atm as f
<aquarius> ar as I'm aware the Sputnik is the only game in town.
<popey> x1 runs ubuntu just fine too
<aquarius> I am fortunate with ssd sizes. This only has 120GB and I'm pretty much OK. A little bigger would be nice, but I don't have much in the way of space requirements.
<popey> but you dont like thinkpads
<popey> even the really nice ones
<Myrtti> aquarius: the Dell Latitudes can be preinstalled with Ubuntu too
<aquarius> popey, yeah. I admit this is unfortunate, my dislike for thinkpads, but I can't help it.
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: nice thing about unused space on an SSD is that it increases lifetime (or it should, anyway)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: yay wear leveling
 * popey checks his backups â»
<Myrtti> it's not just Sputniks, if you don't fancy them. Mind you, Sputnik is cheaper and in many ways better than Latitudes
<popey> excellent, last backup of my laptop happened 45 mins ago
 * popey relaxes
<aquarius> the day Lenovo ship a thinkpad without the nipple and without the mouse buttons and without garish red stuff on it, I'll look at them again :)
<Myrtti> I thought that's exactly what they're doing
<Myrtti> a lot of people are moving away from Lenovo's to Dells just because of that
<aquarius> are they?
<popey> garish red stuff?
<Myrtti> well, without nipple and mouse buttons
<Myrtti> atleast on some models
<MartijnVdS> and the logo
<popey> a 2mm line, 20mm long on the mouse button
<popey> you have issues aquarius
<aquarius> it's ugly. :)
<Myrtti> popey: that's exactly the reason I don't like lenovos either
<Myrtti> it is
<popey> *boggle* â»
<Myrtti> then again I use the nipple mouse buttons with my touchpad
<Myrtti> it's the nipple and the touchpad buttons I don't use
<popey> MartijnVdS: https://plus.google.com/u/0/108930697266689628917/posts/iWhi1qyipsr
<Myrtti> no no wait I do use the touchpad buttons. Nevermind me
<aquarius> I never, never use them :)
<popey> never use what?
<aquarius> touchpad buttons
<popey> the ones that are separate from the touchpad itself?
<popey> I have the touchpad disabled on my thinkpad, never use it
<popey> Touchpoint ftw
<aquarius> you will see that we differ :)
<aquarius> I only want a touchpad. No buttons, no touchpoint.
<AlanBell> aquarius: I was thinking of getting an external touchpad
<SuperMatt> Magic trackpad is good
<AlanBell> apple and logitec do one, surprisingly few other competitors to it
<MartijnVdS> The "All caught up!" bell in Google+ now eats cake
<SuperMatt> yes... it does
<MartijnVdS> it used to just wiggle
<popey> golly, skyrim is only Â£3.74
<MartijnVdS> popey: amazon?  steam?
<popey> steam
<mungbean> wow
<mungbean> i wish i played games
<popey> i want to buy KSP but not at that price
<popey> also prison architect seems too expensive at 9.99
<aquarius> is Prison Architect the new thing from the defcon people?
<aquarius> I read a blog post about it a while back
<popey> yes
<aquarius> ?introversion
<popey> ya
<MartijnVdS> also, it's still in development, afaik
<diplo> I've got to back up my headoffices data to my office ( linux boxes ) about 350gb from one server and probably another 30-40gb from others
<diplo> Rsnapshot seems to be what I'm going for, any other recommendations ?
 * penguin42 would normally use rsync
<popey> Is it lunchtime yet?
<penguin42> no
<diplo> I normally use rsync, but just like the idea of having hourly/daily backups
<directhex> bacula!
<diplo> I heard someone else mention Bacula, think it was Allan from TechSnap
<popey> He is very good at Tetris
<popey> I have beaten him a few times, but he's very quick.
<diplo> :)
<penguin42> diplo: It looks like rsnapshot is built on top of rsync and does something like Apple's time machine setup
<popey> it is
<popey> i use rsnapshot for backing up all my machines
<directhex> i use crashplan for desktops/laptops
<popey> do you backup to other machines?
<diplo> Right, will give it a go in a bit
<popey> or to crashplan?
 * AlanBell wonders what to do about a new phone handset
<directhex> popey, to a usb disk and to crashplan
<diplo> Moto G AlanBell  ?
<AlanBell> I am unenthusiastic about android
<AlanBell> my Peak+ firefox OS order just got cancelled
<directhex> lumia!
<popey> why?
<MartijnVdS> nexus5!
<AlanBell> popey: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AlanBell/posts/UVvBqeqhzDs
<AlanBell> Ubuntu don't have any timescale or partner for a handset
<penguin42> the Jolla hardware spec looks quite nice
<popey> you were willing to wait for a "geek" phone but not willing to buy a nexus 4 and flash it with ubuntu?
<TwistedLucidity> How quickly will Jolla get sued by someone for patent infringement do you think?
<popey> geek_points--
<popey> jolla is only available in limited numbers at the moment
<penguin42> TwistedLucidity: They probably won't bother until they sell a large number
<popey> AlanBell: firefox os from zte is available on ebay
<AlanBell> well I wanted a firefox os handset :) ZTE open is a possibility
<popey> 60 quid
<AlanBell> nexus 4 is a possibility
<AlanBell> no, it isn't, no longer available for sale
<popey> yes. it is
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZTE-Open-powered-by-Firefox-OS-3G-unlocked-smartphone-orange-eBay-exclusive-/171123860758?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item27d7c6e516
<AlanBell> popey: nexus 4 https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_4_16_GB?id=nexus_4_16gb&hl=en_GB
<popey> oh, sorry, thought you meant the zte
<penguin42> AlanBell: So my reading, which I might be wrong, is that the ZTE Open is basically a ZTE Blade (aka Orange San francisco) loaded with Firefox OS - the specs look very similar
<AlanBell> ZTE open is ok, I did want the bigger screen of the peak+
<popey> AlanBell: i was more referring to "Ubuntu don't have any timescale or partner for a handset"
<AlanBell> penguin42: yeah, same kinda think
<popey> which implies you're only willing to go for ubuntu phone if it's in a shop
<penguin42> AlanBell: Note the ZTE Open doesn't have much in the way of cpu,ram, screen or much else (it's been my main phone for years)
<popey> rather than flashing an existing phone
<AlanBell> popey: well I kind of don't like paying for an operating system I don't want
<popey> riiiight
<AlanBell> so if there was a handset with OS royalty payments going to canonical then I would get it
<popey> you can donate
<AlanBell> it isn't an overwhelming consideration, it just offends my capitalist principals
<AlanBell> penguin42: yeah, it is a low end handset, I would like more pixels
<AlanBell> the nexus 4 would appear to have a decentish screen if they sold it
<popey> buy two
<popey> buy a nexus 5 and port ubuntu to it â»
<AlanBell> a reduntant array of inexpensive smartphones
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'm in London in 2 weeks. I can bring my old Galaxy Nexus 8-)
<AlanBell> ooh, how long for?
<popey> \o/ beer
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Fri-Sun
<MartijnVdS> (though there's a lunch+concert on Saturday from 13:00 to $late)
<MartijnVdS> popey: so beer would have to be a Friday thing :)
<MartijnVdS> friday the 13th!
<popey> should make it an ubuntu-uk meetup â»
<MartijnVdS> +1
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> mornig davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
<MooDoo> davmor2: hows it going.....
<davmor2> MooDoo: pretty good at the minute, finally starting to get back on top with the apps queue after a week off :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: awesome, I've been looking into ubuntu member ship and the IRC council lol exciting stuff eh lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: serious stuff though less of the loling ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes sir
<davmor2> MooDoo: and that's the right attitude, now go make me a sandwich :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: no, and if you type sudo make me a sanwich i'm logging off or blocking you ;0
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://xkcd.com/838/
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: fab :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: sudo -s && go make me a sandwich :P
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: so, after the root shell is exited, make a sandwich as not-root?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: shh
<penguin42> fortunately I protect my bread with SELinux
<davmor2> MooDoo: sudo -s
<davmor2> MooDoo: make me a sandwich
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: ^ you happy now?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I think he might tell you to make your own :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: It'll be easier and I'll get a filling I like :)
<MartijnVdS> bacon!
<MooDoo> davmor2: fsck off young man.
<arsen> trying to catch up on #ubuntu-uk chat backlog after a 1 hour meeting is like swimming in syrup
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I might make bacon but MooDoo is evil he would coat it in marmite
<popey> \o/ marmite highlight
<popey> AlanBell: how are you getting to Reading?
 * popey will probably take a train from farnborough north
<MooDoo> marmite sucks bovril FTW \o/
<SuperMatt> phone interview in an hour /o\
<arsen> ooh, good luck!
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: what for?
<penguin42> good luck!
<MooDoo> and good luck
<SuperMatt> possibly one of the best linux jobs a guy can get
<arsen> subjective :P
<SuperMatt> I'll tell all if I move on to the next stage
<arsen> some people are canonical kinda guys, especially in here
<arsen> some people are googlers/facebooktypes/twatters
<SuperMatt> I would love to work for canonical, but I haven't seen any jobs there that suit me
<arsen> likewise, i dont think i have the knowledge, nor ubuntu specifics, and i'm not a linux dev :D
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: snap!
<SuperMatt> there are some roles which are too technical for me, some which are just not my area of expertise, and the rest, which are right, aren't in the UK
<Laney> You can change your areas of knowledge
<constrictor> I want to upgrade my ram to something like 8GB I'm currently on 4GB crucial is telling me the most I can go is 4GB but I have a 64bit Processor how is it possible that it will only see 4GB?
<Laney> i.e. get involved with development, learn stuff, prove you are clueful, apply for job
<penguin42> constrictor: Because the chipset/CPU might limit the physical bus sizes
<penguin42> constrictor: My laptop is also limited to 4GB max (and can actually only use a little over 3GB)
<MooDoo> Laney: changing your area of knowledge isn't that easy to be honest.
<constrictor> I thought that limitation was on the Processor
<penguin42> constrictor: The 64bit-ness of a CPU refers to the size of the registers, not the physcial memory (or even virtual memory) address range
<constrictor> hmmm
<Laney> MooDoo: it's also known as learning...
<Laney> I'm sure you can do that
<AlanBell> and you address memory using a register . . .
<SuperMatt> Laney: sure, but I'm just not good enough at dev yet :(
<Laney> everyone had to get started at some point
<penguin42> constrictor: Everyone along the line has to be able to do it, so CPU, chipset and motherboard wiring
<MooDoo> Laney: i'm old, I don't want to learn :p unless it's how to grow decent chillies
<SuperMatt> I want to learn that too
<constrictor> thanks penguin42 so it seems that I have hit my ceiling then?
<SuperMatt> quite likely
<penguin42> constrictor: Probably
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: we need to take TheOpenSourcerer out for a beer and pick his brains lol
<SuperMatt> whenever upgrading your ram or cpu, you must always consider that your mobo won't be able to deal with it, which is why I tend to do simultanious ram/mobo/cpu upgrades every few years
<Laney> Jus' saying that if you want to change what you're doing then you probably will need to get some new skills
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: the next release party is only 5 months away, we can do it then
<Laney> and Ubuntu development, if that interests you, is actually a good place to do that because there's no shortage of things to work on and lots of knowledgable and helpful people available to give you advice and feedback
<MooDoo> Laney: i think i'm more of a people person rather than a dev which is why i was looking at the irc council but i don't qualify
<Laney> so get qualified!
<MooDoo> Laney: i'm working on it :D
<Laney> it's all people who have decided to get off their bums and put some work / time in
<MooDoo> Laney: i get the feeling you don't like lazyness ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did somebody say beer?
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: yes SuperMatt and I are going to one day visit you buy you beer and pick your brains about chilli growing :D
<Laney> MooDoo: Nah, I'm lazy myself - it's just thinking that you can't change your situation
<Laney> which becomes a reason to stay doing the same thing even if it's not making you happy
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
 * Laney goes back to setting up a trusty vm
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will be starting my seeds off around the 1st Jan.
<arsen> delayed response - the secret is in regular plantfood, MooDoo
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: excellent....ubuntu uk chilli growing competition.
<penguin42> AlanBell: Reading that Geeksphone note it sounds like their biggest problems were with memory; I wonder what it was about the stuff they used - had they just been unlucky/made bad choices or is there some more general problem?
<AlanBell> penguin42: not sure, sounds like there is political stuff going on too, supplies are sqeezed so the big OEMs get all of them in preference to smaller players
<directhex> link?
<DJones> The Register really doesn't help itself with its reviews, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/28/five_oses_to_save_your_xp_netbook/ Talking about installing Ubuntu 12.04 "Performance was poor: even though I defragged the drive in both Windows and Ubuntu, the laggy XP experience persisted."...Well Duh..If you use WUBI, what do you expect, and just as good a comment "The killer lack-of-app was Minecraft. I'd assumed the game was so cool ...
<DJones> ... Ubuntu's Software Centre would bring it to the netbook in mere moments."...
<penguin42> The Register does seem to be getting worse; for a long time it was at least reasonably technical in a lot of it's articles but it seems to be losing it
<directhex> like most sites, it does what it can to get cash
<directhex> linkbait sells
<mungbean> i wonder how much $Â£ they make
<arsen> received my amazon SSD :D thanks black friday sales!
<andrewebdev> ehm, just noticed that my clock on the top right is missing
<andrewebdev> how would I get that back?
<penguin42> it's probably indicator-datetime that's died
<andrewebdev> all the options on the clock settings tab is greyed out as well
<dvrr> WARNING: Since you are using --dev tun with a point-to-point topology, the second argument to --ifconfig must be an IP address.  You are using something (255.255.255.0) that looks more like a netmask. (silence this warning with --ifconfig-nowarn)
<dvrr> openvpn  client side problem
<dvrr> MooDoo
<penguin42> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/once-great-ssd-manufacturer-ocz-filing-for-bankruptcy/
<GentileBen> 'The results aren't pretty and Mr 12 decided it looks like âA Mac made by someone who's only seen a Mac once,â a wisdom from the mouths of tweens moment if ever there was one.'
<GentileBen> lol
<GentileBen> penguin42, it's been coming for several months.
<GentileBen> They had to take out loans a few months ago just so they could get enough NAND for their SSDs - and it was terrible, low-rent, poorly performing NAND because that's all they could afford.
<GentileBen> Ironically it was Toshiba NAND.
<penguin42> GentileBen: There was an article I was reading about LSI/Sandforce - they're losing business because the NAND vendors are doing their own controllers
<GentileBen> Well, it's not a surprise. They got their fingers badly burnt by SF-2281.
<penguin42> what happened with that?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: more money went out than in?
<GentileBen> Apparently OCZ had a timed exclusive on SF-2281, which is why it had such a terrible run after their already bad Vertex 2 days.
<GentileBen> OCZ had a failure rate of 7% on their SSDs. The likes of Samsung and Intel had about 2.5%.
<GentileBen> And then most recently, their failure rate dropped to 2.5% according to Ars...but Samsung and Intel's rate was ~0.25%.
<GentileBen> So Samsung were 10x as reliable as OCZ with better performance, the best NAND on the market, and the backing of a huge company's warranty.
<GentileBen> Remember this penguin42? http://www.anandtech.com/show/5971/intel-discovers-sandforce-sf2281-controller-cant-do-aes256-encryption-offers-return-program
<penguin42> oops
<GentileBen> They shipped a controller with a broken AES-256 implementation, which took a year to be found out.
<GentileBen> OCZ also sold terrible RAM. They pretty much pioneered the "throw cheap chips on a PCB and add a gold heat spreader" market.
<GentileBen> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/10478401/Devil-cat-hospitalises-villagers-in-attacking-spree.html
<GentileBen> "'Devil cat' hospitalises villagers in attacking spree"
<mungbean> does IQ increase over time or remain static?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: image quality increases as better cameras/imaging techniques are invented
<mungbean> intelligence quiotient?
<MartijnVdS> ls
<popey> .
<popey> ..
<popey> goat_porn
<MartijnVdS> popey: Oops, I'm in ~popey again!
<popey> heh
<mungbean> ooooeer
<MartijnVdS> popey: about friday the 13th - what's the best way to plan that? :)
<GentileBen> lol MartijnVdS
<GentileBen> He took your question and gave it a Dutch Oven, mungbean.
<GentileBen> mungbean, average IQ increases over time. Nobody seems to be sure why.
<mungbean> shouldn't it remain static?
<GentileBen> i.e. the average IQ seems to increase by a point every year in the UK, IIRC.
<mungbean> IQ should be a measure of now
<popey> MartijnVdS: ask AlanBell to make a loco event, then pimp on the list?
<GentileBen> mungbean, well, that's how IQ is defined.
<mungbean> = all people living
<GentileBen> 100 is the average.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I guess it'll remain the same-ish, it's never completely static
<GentileBen> So an IQ of 100 today isn't the same as an IQ in 2015.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: except maybe after a blow to the head
<GentileBen> When they compare IQs from different years, they undo the adjustment they make.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ^ what popey said ;)
<GentileBen> Yes that's right - an IQ of 100 from 1980 is like an IQ of 80 from today.
<GentileBen> Here you go mungbean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
<GentileBen> It's also why the average IQ of Equitorial Guinea is 58... no stimulation besides trying to avoid coups organised by Mark Thatcher.
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: erm, just reading back :)
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: popey: venue?
<mungbean> i'm trying to snoop my username/password getting entered into a web page, not getting much luck
<mungbean> its an http page, wireshark has captured packets
<mungbean> and tcpdump on the server
<AlanBell> hmm, I am already supposed to be out in London on the 12th
<mungbean> am i missing something needs decoding?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: yes, HTTP Basic authentication encodes it in .. I think base64? in a request header
<mungbean> how do i view in wireshark?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: open the dump file, find a packet from your HTTP request, the right-click and go to "follow TCP stream"
<SuperMatt> anyone an expert with openstack?
<SuperMatt> or is there a #ubuntu-openstack?
<SuperMatt> well I know the answer to the latter question
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: I think #ubuntu-juju might be a good place
<SuperMatt> you might be right
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: great thanks
<mungbean> its been a while..
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: got that new GCHQ job then? :P
<mungbean> that would be fun
<mungbean> oops not allowed to say that
<mungbean> they aren't popular round here i guess
 * SuperMatt starts encrypting his porn dir
<mungbean> ZXSpectrum.gif
<popey> AlanBell: SuperMatt its #juju i thought
<SuperMatt> it is
<SuperMatt> but no one is juju is responding, so I'm trying #openstack
<popey> probably due to turkey day
<SuperMatt> ah
<MartijnVdS> 'MURICA?
<SuperMatt> some of them, probably
 * AlanBell wonders how best to convert eastings and northings into lat/long
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/UsefulData/ConvertUTMNoOZ.HTM ?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: they also have formulas there
<AlanBell> that is one of the pages I have been puzzling over :)
<DJones> This looks like a Homer Simpson Doh! moment http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-25134289
<SuperMatt> I'm surprised he didn't just make backups
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: much easier too
<SuperMatt> I've got stacks of disks at home that I've been meaning to sort through
<MartijnVdS> I'm pretty sure mine don't have bitcoins on them though
<MartijnVdS> maybe a lost PGP key somewhere
<SuperMatt> Once I've got everything I want off them, I'd wipe them several times over
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: ATA Secure Erase++
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase
<mungbean> this bitcoin thing is crazy
<mungbean> $1000?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: almost $1200
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: I would have just used dban
<SuperMatt> what I would really like though is an actual disk shredder
<SuperMatt> it'd be a cool job to mount one to the back of a van, and drive around london asking people if they have any disks to shred
<SuperMatt> Â£1 a disk or something
<SuperMatt> you'd make a mint in no time
<popey> there are companies that do that
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: also, mirror them first and get blackmail material :)
<popey> we used to have one come to work and shred all kinds of things, disks being one
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: the idea is that you get the users to chuck them in, so you won't be able to mirror them
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: ah, then have them pay for seeing their data be destroyed
<SuperMatt> yup
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: and sell the scrap :)
<SuperMatt> of course
<mungbean> is Azelphur a millionaire now then?
<Azelphur> ...pretty much
<Azelphur> more money than I know what to do with, lets put it like that.
<SuperMatt> why's that?
<mungbean> ï¼â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ â»ââ»
<Azelphur> BTC at $1170, continues to climb.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: buy an ASIC farm :)
<SuperMatt> how many do you have?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: got one.
<mungbean> buy an island
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: around 110.
<mungbean> craziness
<SuperMatt> oh wow
<SuperMatt> nice
<MooDoo> ;what have i missed?  Azelphur 110 what? lol
<Azelphur> pretty crazy, it's all just stored on my laptop on full drive encryption
<SuperMatt> so not a millionaire yet, but there goes that pesky morgage ;)
<Azelphur> it's weird walking around with a laptop knowing the data on it is worth a small house
<SuperMatt> of course, you do have to be able to sell them all
<mungbean> before the crash
<Azelphur> heh, I wouldn't even dent mtgox in all honesty
<Azelphur> but I don't plan to sell
<Azelphur> I'm playing the long game
<Azelphur> $10,000 next :)
<MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for the next drop first
<MooDoo> Azelphur: bitcoins?
<MartijnVdS> litecoins are also going up apparently
<Azelphur> MooDoo: yup
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yup, I have a decent holding on them too
<MooDoo> $1000 a coin at the moemnt?
<Azelphur> primecoin is the next big thing, I've banked on that
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: at least they're affordable 8-)
<Azelphur> MooDoo: $1170 and climbing
<MooDoo> wow
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: is it known why it's going up so high so quickly?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: China just joined the economy full force with Baidu accepting BTC
<Azelphur> so basically...the whole of China just started buying BTC
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: until their govt forbids it
<Azelphur> xD
<MartijnVdS> "Drop btc support or baidu drops off the net" kind of thing
<Azelphur> isn't baidu government ran anyway?
<AlanBell> I think it might be too big to fail
<Azelphur> seems it isn't
<MooDoo> isn't it a bit difficult to mine them?
<Azelphur> MooDoo: yup, ASIC or gtfo is the summary of bitcoin mining right now
<Azelphur> primecoin and litecoin however, they are still possible with OTC hardware
<MooDoo> http://www.butterflylabs.com/
<TheOpenSourcerer> How many coins have been mined so far?
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: about 11 million
<Azelphur> MooDoo: they are scammers, run like the plague.
<TheOpenSourcerer> So 10m left
<Azelphur> yea
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: but the algorithm auto-scales so that will take $a_long_time to mine
<MartijnVdS> \o/ difficulty
<Azelphur> yep, hundreds of years.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ok
<MooDoo> Azelphur: really?
<MartijnVdS> buying more ASICs will give short-term gain, but medium to long-term it'll make the difficulty go up, making it harder to find new blocks
<Azelphur> MooDoo: yup, "Preorder now and we'll ship in October 2012" *Doesn't ship until August 2013*
<Azelphur> Oh, you want a refund? NOPE.
<Azelphur> summary of butterflylabs :)
<MooDoo> Azelphur: what about mining software? any recommendations?
<Azelphur> bitcoin mining on a standard desktop is pointless
<MooDoo> sh ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> How about on a cluster of Raspberry Pi? ;-)
<AlanBell> sadly not :)
<Azelphur> MooDoo: aim at primecoin (beefy CPU) or litecoin (high end AMD GPU)
<MartijnVdS> not even on their GPUs?
<AlanBell> 0.2 hashes per second per pi
<AlanBell> not sure if it can use the GPU because of closedness
<Azelphur> someone worked out how long it'd take to mine btc using pen and paper xD
<AlanBell> 0.2Mhash/s
<popey> they would die first, surely?
<Azelphur> pretty much.
<Azelphur> a few hundred times the age of the universe
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<AlanBell> maybe use a cluster of humans :)
<SuperMatt> does the 12.04 installer have btrfs options?
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS your argument makes no sense.
<Azelphur> distributed human computing
<Azelphur> xD
<GentileBen> Mining difficulty is global not per-ser.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: An infinite number of monkeys with typewriters?
<GentileBen> *per-user
<popey> SuperMatt: yes, but only the basics
<SuperMatt> can I select a subvolume?
<GentileBen> The only sane way to mine today is to buy ASIC boxes.
<popey> no, dont think so
<SuperMatt> dang
<SuperMatt> I wonder if maybe I can bootstrap the install
<Azelphur> buying ASIC boxes right now isn't the best thing
<Azelphur> I've avoided
<GentileBen> MooDoo: CPU mining is worthless.
<MooDoo> GentileBen: thanks :D
<GentileBen> Azelphur because most are vapourware.
<Azelphur> you've got BFL (Scammers) KnC (High hardware fail rate) and Avalon (Too expensive to be profitable)
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> oh, I forgot to mention the CEO of BFL is a convicted felon
<Azelphur> just gotta get that in there
<xnox> SuperMatt: yes, but that doesn't mean that one should use btrfs from 12.04
<TheOpenSourcerer> So who/how are they mined then?
<GentileBen> MooDoo: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/05/weve-got-a-butterfly-labs-bitcoin-miner-and-its-pretty-darn-fast/
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: by people who already have ASICs
<SuperMatt> xnox: is it known to be bad?
<GentileBen> TheOpenSourcerer: GPU farms, clusters, and CPU botnets.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining
<popey> by people like this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=346134.msg3709913#msg3709913
<Azelphur> GentileBen: nobody GPU mines any more
<arsen> i was looking at that 600GH butterfly model, reckon that is actually going to perform at that rate?
<MartijnVdS> arsen: butterfly are known scammers
<Azelphur> arsen: it won't ship on time, and you'd probably just be better buying the BTC.
<GentileBen> Azelphur it makes sense if you can botnet them.
<Azelphur> yea
<GentileBen> "Since this unit only uses 50 watts to hash at 5Ghs/sec, it is far more efficient than the GPU miners that have been working at this for years using 300-600 watts to hash at 800Mhs/sec."
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8yggidijumwwfvo/2013-10-25%2019.44.18.jpg
<arsen> yeah, technically my company could setup a btc mining operation pretty rapidly, i'm not convinced by any of the hardware vendors though
<Azelphur> here's what I have :)
<arsen> i noticed yours yesterday in that /r/battlestations chat, Azelphur
<arsen> i assume they're profitable, but im not really in the scene anymore to know what's current.
<popey> what are they Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> popey: Butterfly Labs SC Singles.
<xnox> SuperMatt: yes.
<popey> ah
 * GentileBen botnets Azelphur
<Azelphur> arsen: yea, I was surprised how many people recognised me in that thread, had loads of people recognising me by name for stuff I've worked on, was pretty cool :)
<Azelphur> recognition \o/
<SuperMatt> xnox: how... how bad are we talking?
<arsen> Azelphur  - to put things in perspective, say you had the latest enterprise grade ivybridge servers, how do those chips compare to that SC Single?
<Azelphur> arsen: <1% of the hashing speed.
<arsen> hah great.
<GentileBen> arsen, even a quad-socket 12-core IVB-EP rig would be trounced by a few ASICs at a fraction of the cost.
<arsen> oh well, i've got a spare 360core blade chassis that arrived today, i was looking for something to burn it in :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> gosh.
<GentileBen> arsen, install Windows 8.1 and run PCmark on it. @___@
<arsen> cpumark score for the CPU's is ~24,000
<GentileBen> Now hang on a sec. 360 cores in a blade? Explain yourself.
<arsen> blade CHASSIS, GentileBen
<Azelphur> an overclocked i7 3770k will do like 5.2MH/sec, my ASICs do 60,000MH/sec. Each.
<GentileBen> Oh. That's nothing then.
<xnox> SuperMatt: my advice is: you should know your usecase, you should test it, and make an informed decision. It's no good for me, but I don't know what you need it for.
<xnox> SuperMatt: in other words, if you need to ask => don't use it =)
<SuperMatt> all righty then
<Azelphur> arsen: so, an i7 will do about 0.009% of the hashing speed of an ASIC
 * popey hugs btrfs
<Azelphur> :)
<arsen> righty. so the SC singles are the best to buy at the moment?
<Azelphur> arsen: no, as I say, they are scammers. Don't order from BFL.
<arsen> :D
<Azelphur> If you already have a SC Single, great, you're profitable
<arsen> thats the impression i got.
<Azelphur> if your ordering now, I highly recommend against it
<xnox> SuperMatt: popey would probably give you exact opposite, and encourage one to use btrfs =)
<SuperMatt> well I am already using it
<xnox> opinion that is.
<popey> someone has to use it
<SuperMatt> hence why I'm having to bootstrap an install in to it
<Azelphur> you don't know if (or when) they will ship the product, whether it'll perform to advertised specs, and no refunds.
<SuperMatt> well bootstrapping a 12.04 into a subvolume
<Azelphur> you'd probably be better buying BTC and just sitting on them
<Azelphur> I certainly would have come out WAY better had I sat on the BTC, instead of buying from BFL
<arsen> yeah, im a technologist though - i could make a business use case for blowing a bit of IT budget on BTC miners if it at least paid for itself
<arsen> i can't justify putting company funds in BTC exchanges, yet.
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> well, there are a few options if you really want to get in it, you should seriously do your research, remember mining is essentially an arms race, and if you're not at the front of the curve, you're loosing money.
<arsen> but it would mean i get to play the BTC game, which i should of done ages ago - and did, until my dinner burnt and i got annoyed at myself for getting all excited at mining them and ruining my roast dinner :(
<Azelphur> KnC has some nice hardware that would be profitable, but the high rate of hardware failure worries me
<Azelphur> Avalon is a very safe bet, they only sell stuff they have in the warehouse ready to ship, thus no bullshit. It's expensive though, you may not make a profit. Hardware is really nice though.
<arsen> i play the arms race game at work every day, just in a different industry - hence my interest in BTC mining.
<arsen> sorry, the TECH arms race.
<Azelphur> CoinTerra hardware sounds good, but they don't have anything concrete, so it really is just "sounds nice"
<Azelphur> I noticed this too, the other day http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/prospero-x-1.html
<arsen> the joke is when i first looked at BTC i was annoyed at a few dollars return over ~3 months, now that'd of been a few thousand profit :(
<Azelphur> 100GH/sec for $290 sounds too good to be true. I'm sure there's a catch. Haven't spent much time looking into it.
<GentileBen> Azelphur, you're a modern-day gold prospector.
<Azelphur> haha
<arsen> i'm equally looking at getting into it on a personal level, as well as work. may aswell benefit me too!
<Azelphur> GentileBen: I dunno why, I'm just really good at bitcoin I guess
<GentileBen> All you need is the hat, the longjohns and the missing teeth.
<Azelphur> The very first day I saw bitcoin, read about it. I knew EXACTLY what was going to happen
<Azelphur> and instantly dropped every penny I had into mining hardware
<arsen> likewise, Azelphur. i just had no money :(
<Azelphur> it's strange to be that confident in something
<directhex> Azelphur, if i could get a couple of asicminer block erupters for free, is there much point in doing so?
<Azelphur> directhex: sure, free money is free.
<directhex> or are they too far behind the curve now?
<Azelphur> behind the curve, but with something that low power there's no reason to care
<Azelphur> may as well just run them, maybe you'll make 0.1 BTC or something after a while
<Azelphur> :)
<arsen> if i had free power, how does that change things? :D
<Azelphur> arsen: considerably, run any and all hardware you have access to.
<Azelphur> as its all free money
<directhex> Azelphur, i guess i could run the daemon on an arm dev box i have spare. almost no watts
<Azelphur> directhex: I have my ASICs plugged into my home server that'd be running anyway :)
<arsen> we should start a btc mining group
<Azelphur> arsen: you sound like you have a lot of PC-Grade hardware available, I wouldn't bitcoin mine on it
<Azelphur> litecoin/primecoin is more profitable
<arsen> to be brutally honest my company has too much money and i can pursuade them when it comes to tech, so if i can use them to fund my BTC learning then i'd be interested, lol.
<popey> Azelphur: you mentioned amd cards for litecoin?
<Azelphur> popey: yup, that's reasonably worthwhile doing
<AlanBell> is there room for litecoin/primecoin as well as bitcoin?
<Azelphur> yup
<popey> and are there any exchanges that accept lite/prime?
<popey> "Is there room for USD with EUR" :D
<AlanBell> well yeah, fair point :)
<Azelphur> popey: yup, btce
<arsen> interesting, i didnt know about those. Thanks Azelphur.
<Azelphur> you generally exchange the altcoins into bitcoin
<popey> right
<popey> at the BTC/USD exchange rate?
<MartijnVdS> popey: nah, at the BTC/LTC rate
<popey> oh
<MartijnVdS> or BTC/PrC rate
<MartijnVdS> popey: https://btc-e.com/exchange/ltc_btc
<Azelphur> popey: a 7990 would do like 0.74 LTC/day, which is $33.818 a day
<Azelphur> given all the current rates
<Azelphur> primecoin is profitable too on the CPU
<arsen> nice. interesting.
<directhex> can you do litecoin/primecoin on a btc asic?
<Azelphur> directhex: no.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: no, different hashing algorithms
<directhex> lame
<arsen> i just wanted to buy a BTC asic to get involved.
<Myrtti> ooohhhh I love this Bluetooth Audio thing I got from Amazon
<Myrtti> AVR was a bit to set up but oh man
<arsen> as i guess most are in here - internet children who want to be involved/support any internet community thing - especially one that competes with traditional banking and curreny models :D
<popey> Myrtti: which one?
<Azelphur> hehe
<directhex> pfft. 3d camera on amazon is <Â£100
<Azelphur> arsen: the ultimate/best way to get involved, is to charge BTC for your usual activities
<directhex> crazy
<Azelphur> run a business? charge BTC. Get involved ;)
<Myrtti> popey: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DSNWM2K
<directhex> i paid about Â£400, and that was discounted
<arsen> i guess, Azelphur - i'm a corporate sheep though, i dont really sell much myself.
<Azelphur> hehe
<arsen> i reckon i could wangle a few weeks of 360cores worth of primecoin/litecoin mining
<arsen> is it the clock speed or the cores that's required?
<MartijnVdS> arsen: yes.
<Azelphur> ^
<arsen> yes as in, both? :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<MartijnVdS> arsen: http://anty.info/primecoin-hardware/
<arsen> ah great, thanks.
<schwuk> Myrtti: looks good
<Myrtti> schwuk: yeah, I'm really happy
<Myrtti> don't need to listen to the work playlist with headphones or tinny laptop speakers
<Myrtti> was well worth the 34 pounds I paid
<directhex> ...... :o
<directhex> :)
<directhex> :D
<directhex> Azelphur, guess what i just found on a usb stick
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: 15.4kg?
<Azelphur> directhex: you're rich eh? :)
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I refuse to respond to that
<directhex> Azelphur, waiting for confirmations, but i seem to have 1 BTC in this wallet.dat
<Azelphur> grats
<Azelphur> that's around  800 squids.
<Laney> woot
<Azelphur> :)
<arsen> nice find, directhex \o/
<directhex> ....... or not. more recent transactions suggest i spent it
<directhex> 127 weeks of history to sync
<arsen> :(
<arsen> i tried to buy a chunk of BTC at ~$14 so i could use it to have a laugh buying junk on silkroad. shame i didnt finish the job.
<MartijnVdS> arsen: I sold at $100
<arsen> hah annoying eh. seems like that's the common story.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not much difference to buying and selling shares.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: true
<AlanBell> buy low, sell high
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Waiting for it to go low :)
<AlanBell> just with this there is no real notion of what high means
<TheOpenSourcerer> When I was in my early 20's I wish I'd stuck a couple of grand in Cisco.
<directhex> 0.00800000 in mtgox account i'd ignored as small change
<TheOpenSourcerer> They've split untold times and a couple of grand would be worth shedloads now.
<SuperMatt> ok, this is bugging me, I've bootstrapped a copy of ubuntu in to a subvolume called @precise (currently mounted in /mnt/@precise). How do I convince update-grub that it needs to scan that location for the new os?
<SuperMatt> this is simply so I can have 13.10 and 12.04 in seperate subvols
<popey> SuperMatt: ask in #btrfs
<popey> dark* is a nice chap
<xnox> SuperMatt: no, ubuntu will not boot from alternative subvols.
<xnox> SuperMatt: so you cannot change @
<xnox> nor @home.
<xnox> there is a bug about it.
<SuperMatt> oh really?
<SuperMatt> I think I might have to resize my disk instead :(
<SuperMatt> oh well, that can wait
<directhex> 15.24000000 à¸¿TC at $18.75000
<directhex> i guess that's what i cashed out at
<awilkins> Ouch
<MartijnVdS> $1181, "all time high" according to bitcoinity
<awilkins> Why didn't I buy a load of them last week, even
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: step into my TARDIS 8-)
<awilkins> I don't really need the money, I suppose
<awilkins> But really, it would be lovely to be able to have FYM
<awilkins> (profanity expansion of this term not permitted in channel)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: you're already rich and upper-crusty?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Just earning more than I spend
<Azelphur> oh btw, if anyone happens to be going to the bitcoin expo in London on Saturday
<Azelphur> I'mma be there
<MartijnVdS> getting robbed of your private keys? ;)
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<Azelphur> http://www.bitcoinexpo.co.uk/
<Azelphur> I have VIP tickets, company comped \o/
<popey> Azelphur: is it still painful getting cash in and out of bitcoin?
<Azelphur> popey: yup
<Azelphur> banks have a case of the butthurt still
<Azelphur> tbh I don't even try to get cash out now, I just spend the coin directly.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Now the US has declared them OK does it help?
<Azelphur> penguin42: nope, US isn't UK, and the government can say what they want, the banks are still gonna be unhappy.
<penguin42> Azelphur: But can you put them in a US bank ?
<directhex> lol
<Azelphur> penguin42: the coins? nope
<penguin42> Azelphur: No, I mean can you sell the coins and liberate $ into a US bank account
<directhex> when i first set up bitcoin mining, and got a bunch of people on a tech forum involved, i created a dedicated donation address
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea, with some difficulty
<directhex> how many transactions have i ever received to that address? 0
<Azelphur> hehe
<directhex> feel free to donate all the btc to 15QtF8wourtAuqm4kAKCksK3cpS2ge4Dyc :p
<Azelphur> :)
<directhex> i won't know about it until 96 weeks of history finish downloading, of course
<Azelphur> but yea, I do my tesco groceries in BTC, buy all my gadgetry in BTC
<Azelphur> no real need to cash out beyond making rent
<GentileBen> Still talking about BTC?
<GentileBen> Time to cash out, Azelphur.
<GentileBen> How much BTC do you have?
<Azelphur> GentileBen: 111
<Azelphur> give or take a bit.
<GentileBen> That's $111,000. Why don't you cash out now?
<GentileBen> Don't be greedy Azelphur.
<Azelphur> GentileBen: because I know this is just the beginning
<Azelphur> and I'm a greedy person ;)
<GentileBen> We should've run a BTC mining syndicate in here.
<GentileBen> Azelphur, can you afford to loose $111k?
<GentileBen> If so, go ahead.
<GentileBen> lose*
<GentileBen> -_-
<Azelphur> GentileBen: sorta, it was all money I made by playing BTC in the first place
<Azelphur> if I lost it, I'd have to leave my apartment and downsize considerably
<GentileBen> That's not what I meant.
<Azelphur> but, that's a risk I accept.
<directhex> i regret cashing out at $18
<GentileBen> lol directhex
<GentileBen> Sorry I lolled at that.
<GentileBen> It's trading at $1000 right now.
<Azelphur> basically, if I lost it, I wouldn't end up on the street or anything
<Azelphur> it'd just suck.
<GentileBen> Azelphur, I'd cash out half.
<GentileBen> Personally
<GentileBen> I'd invest half in traditional stocks.
<Azelphur> GentileBen: I have been intending to buy some other stuff to diversify a bit, but not half.
<Azelphur> BTC is too valuable
<GentileBen> Man I wish I'd have invested in Apple back when their shares were worthless.
<MartijnVdS> too big to fail?
<GentileBen> Azelphur: as your newly appointed stockbroker, I insist you diversify.
<directhex> Azelphur, going to get a virgin galactic ticket? :p
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS, Azelphur believes BTC will keep climbing in value.
<GentileBen> I think it's going to crash again.
<ali1234> of course it's going to crash again
<GentileBen> It's going to crash when the banks make sure the Fed are hostile to BTC in the US.
<Azelphur> GentileBen: hehe, waiting for provisional drivers license to come through so I can have ID to stock things :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: of course :)
<GentileBen> ali1234, so there you go.
<GentileBen> Cash out just before the crash.
<ali1234> ...yeah
<GentileBen> Buy more coin just after the crash.
<ali1234> so when is the crash?
<Azelphur> GentileBen: and then get murdered by the tax man ;)
<GentileBen> Rinse and repeat until you're a BTC billionaire.
<GentileBen> ali1234, next Tuesday.
<ali1234> i managed to predict it to the day last time... lol
<directhex> don't cash out to cash, buy palladium!
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> but yea, it'll crash, then it'll just build back up again
<Azelphur> :)
<GentileBen> Azelphur, cash out into gold.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: so, when do you think it'll crash now?
<Azelphur> GentileBen: isn't gold bad?
<ali1234> no idea at this point
<GentileBen> Of course not.
<GentileBen> Gold has steadily climbed in value since the 70s.
<GentileBen> It's been by far the most reliable investment.
<GentileBen> And it's all due to Ron Paul.
<GentileBen> Ron Paul built his solid gold rocket ship to take us to the libertarian utopia Planet Mises.
<Azelphur> hehe
<AlanBell> so how does one run a wine application from the dash?
<ali1234> yeah as long as you didn't buy gold in 1980, you are fine
<ali1234> http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/506075276bb3f7f35200001a-1020-615/gold-price-since-1970s.png?maxX=590
<Azelphur> hehe
<directhex> 87 weeks behind, no magic debt-clearing transactions have appeared yet :.
<directhex> :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> See that dip around 2000-2002? That's when Gordon Brown sold all ours ;-(
<bashrc> I do not care about gold.  It is a silly metal.
<directhex> if i could turn back time, BTC would be a big part of it :/
<awilkins> Selling large gold reserves just after you announce you are going to do it can't really be considered sound fiscal policy
<mungbean> can you short BTC?
<awilkins> I imagine there are brokers that will let you
<awilkins> Shorting is just an agreement to buy Bitcoin in the future
<mungbean> and selling it before you have it ;)
<awilkins> I think you essentially borrow someone elses, and sell them, and agree to buy some back to fill the deficit
<Myrtti> ahhahahahahah https://www.facebook.com/Britishhistory/posts/584353481633074
<awilkins> You can usually short a lot more than you can afford to buy
<awilkins> But in the case of BTC I'd probably only let you short 2:1 at most
<GentileBen> ALL THAT GLITTERS IS NOT GOLD
<mungbean> it could be a poo with glitter in
<GentileBen> Myrtti, people overlook the fact that the settlers were Christian fundamentalists.
<GentileBen> I dunnio why.
<awilkins> "God will provide!"
<awilkins> "Native Americans were sent by God to bring us corn and turkey! It's a sign! We must kill them and take their land!"
<GentileBen> ...and their giant birds.
<mungbean> if by fundamentalists you mean people seeking freedom from religious persecution then yes
<mungbean> among many others
<GentileBen> lol mungbean they were the ones who wanted to persecute everybody else.
<mungbean> who just wanted a new life
<mungbean> by true definition, a fundamentalist christian would love their enemies
<ali1234> that doesn't mean they wouldn't leave the country
<ali1234> plus, not changing your beliefs despite being persecuted for them is pretty much the definition of a fundamentalist
<GentileBen> "From 1649 to 1660 Puritans in England were allied to the state power held by the military regime, headed by Oliver Cromwell until his death in 1658."
<mungbean> and?
<GentileBen> For that they deserved to get kicked out.
<mungbean> you sir are a muppet
<GentileBen> Bunch of traitors they were.
<GentileBen> Azelphur can't you use your BTC to fund the search? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-25134289
<ali1234> GentileBen: why? as long as the btc isn't found, everyone else is better off
<GentileBen> lol
<GentileBen> Also taking the coin would be theft by finding.
<ali1234> HD isn't going to work after 6 months in a rubbish dump anyway
<GentileBen> What if it's an SSD?!
<ali1234> maybe. but why would you throw out a SSD
<ali1234> maybe the guy just made up the story to get on TV? i wouldn't be surprised
<GentileBen> As long as the NAND or platters are intact, he could pay a small sum to get the data recovered.
<GentileBen> Well, is there a wallet with exactly that many BTC in it
<ali1234> or maybe it's his cover and he still has the coins safe on a paper wallet that's extremely well hidden
<GentileBen> Yes
<ali1234> you can't tell how much is in a wallet because it contains multiple addresses
<GentileBen> Disclosing it is stupid.
<GentileBen> Or maybe he thinks somebody will find it for him?
<ali1234> that's got to be the least likely theory
<GentileBen> Taking the coin would be theft....or would it? He did throw the DHH away.
<GentileBen> HDD*
<ali1234> taking anything from a rubbish tip is theft
<ali1234> even if the HD was blank, it would still be theft
<ali1234> technically those BTC are now the property of whoever's dump it is, i believe
<GentileBen> ali1234 is it theft from the owner of the tip?
<ali1234> yes
<penguin42> oh now that's an interesting question, does the tip owner get to own the information on something you throw away
<GentileBen> I'm sure there's an exemption. Like if you accidentally throw out a lottery ticket.
<ali1234> perhaps
<ali1234> or a really valuable painting - that has actually happened and the owners got it back
<GentileBen> Hmm that man lives in Newport.
<ali1234> original owners that is
<GentileBen> Isn't Azelphur from Newport?
<ali1234> no
<GentileBen> >_>
<GentileBen> Yes he is.
<ali1234> not even close
<ali1234> not even the right country :D
<Seeker`> and Azelphur isn't called "James Howell"
<GentileBen> Isn't he?
<ali1234> also he doesn't look like that guy
<mungbean> you're being trolled ali1234
<Seeker`> GentileBen: /whois gentileben
<SuperMatt> does btrfs support online resizing?
<Seeker`> eww, luton, unlucky :
<popey> yes SuperMatt
<GentileBen> Luton exchange, not Luton house.
<popey> up and down
<GentileBen> TIL Jack Whitehall has a girlfriend. !!
<GentileBen> I always thought he was gay.
<SuperMatt> popey: and the resizes the partiton it's on too?
<SuperMatt> or just how much space is allocatable?
<popey> my drives aren't partitioned
<SuperMatt> I think I'll just do my stuff offline
<SuperMatt> just in case
<Mydim3> hey guys i need help
<SuperMatt> we all do, but I hope your problems are easier to fix than mine
<Mydim3> lol
<Mydim3> im trying to get a mac theme on lubuntu
<SuperMatt> ah
<SuperMatt> many people have created scripts for that, but you can get a mac-esque theme by installing the elementary theme
<Mydim3> the what?
<SuperMatt> http://danrabbit.deviantart.com/art/elementary-gtk-theme-83104033
<Mydim3> naw ill just try to get a real mac theme
<SuperMatt> http://namakutux.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/how-to-install-mac-os-x-lion-theme-on.html
<SuperMatt> tried that?
<Mydim3> let me see
<mungbean> i <3 elementary
<Mydim3> thx i think i can take it from here on
<SuperMatt> no worries
<Mydim3> wait
<Mydim3> i installed it
<Mydim3> am i supposed to reboot?
<Mydim3> ?
<Mydim3> nothing is happening
<Mydim3> do i reboot for theme?
<Mydim3> ?
<Mydim3> hello
<Mydim3> anyone?
<Myrtti> patience is a great gift
<Mydim3> do i reboot?
<Mydim3> i installed the theme
<Mydim3> brb
<Mydim3> hey
<Mydim3> i tried to install theme but it wont let me
<penguin42> look - it's a REALLY bad idea to be installing .deb's from dropbox - I mean **REALLY**
<penguin42> Mydim3: Would you install a .exe on Windows from dropbox?
<Mydim3> no
<Mydim3> i woulden't
<Mydim3> wouldn't
<Mydim3> hey can anyone help me out?
<Mydim3> who has teamviewer here?
<Mydim3> hello?
<Mydim3> can anyone help me?
<davmor2> Mydim3: have you tried enabling the theme?
<Mydim3> how?
<Mydim3> davmor2 do you have teamviewer?
<Mydim3> ?
<davmor2> Mydim3: no
<davmor2> Mydim3: I'm not sure what tool Lubuntu uses for selecting themes
<Mydim3> ok hwo do you enable the tgeme?
<Mydim3> how do you enable theme*
<davmor2> Mydim3: some where in settings there will be a look and feel option select the theme there
<popey> Mydim3: seems nobody here can help. perhaps ask in #lubuntu or #ubuntu ?
<davmor2> Mydim3: http://www.maketecheasier.com/theme-up-lubuntu/
<Mydim3> i tried that
<davmor2> Mydim3: over to #lubuntu then I assume as they should know their stuff :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: AlanBell I can;t make either dates but thought you might be interested: http://www.eventimapollo.com/events/detail/brian-and-robins-christmas-compendium-of-reason
<directhex> sadface. i thought i'd really found a forgotten btc
<Myrtti> who was it that was a Philips shaver expert?
<penguin42> directhex: down the back of a sofa?
<Myrtti> someone talked me out of getting dsample a shaver last time because they knew the model I was looking at was awful
<Mydim3> hey im back
<Mydim3> how do you install sh files?
<Mydim3> hello?
<bashrc> chmod +x <file.sh>
<Mydim3> help
<bashrc> ./file.sh
<Mydim3> says no such file or trajectory
<Mydim3> can anyone help me?
<Mydim3> hello?
<Mydim3> can someone help me?
<Mydim3> hel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Mydim3> HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: it would help if you actually knew what you're trying to do
<MartijnVdS> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<Mydim3> im trying to install a sh file
<Mydim3> and it won't let me
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: first: isn't there a real package? what are you trying to install? where did you get it? are you sure it's safe (not malware)?
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<GentileBen> !help
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<GentileBen> !patience
<lubotu3> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com/ or http://ubuntuforums.org/ or http://askubuntu.com/
<Mydim3> ok so no there is not a real package second trying to install mac theme third i got from a website fourth i think its safe
<Mydim3> you there?
<Mydim3> !patience
<lubotu3> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com/ or http://ubuntuforums.org/ or http://askubuntu.com/
<Mydim3> !hi
<Mydim3> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<MartijnVdS> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  DJones, Myrtti, Mez, AlanBell, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<Mydim3> !help
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Mydim3> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  DJones, Myrtti, Mez, AlanBell, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: It's the first hit on google when I type in your question: "install sh file ubuntu"
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: Next time, google it yourself.
<Mydim3> im not using ubuntu
<Mydim3> im using lubuntu
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: Don't worry. It's the same underneath.
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: or google it with lubuntu instead
<Mydim3> i tried it
<Mydim3> im getting a error
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: there's even a youtube video explaining!
<Mydim3> martijn you have teamviewer?
<MartijnVdS> please, search first, then ask.
<Mydim3> i did search
<Mydim3> AND I GO A ERROR!
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: No. And I'm not helping you any more, sorry. If you can't even figure out this, I wonder if you really should be using that software.
<Mydim3> GOT*!
<Mydim3> dude
<Mydim3> i can use the software
<MartijnVdS> apparently not
<Mydim3> it's just i got a error saying
<Mydim3> chmod: cannot access âmacbuntu.shâ: No such file or directory
<MartijnVdS> and what do you think that means?
<Mydim3> and the file does exist
<Mydim3> that there is not a file named like that
<MartijnVdS> is it uppercase maybe? or one letter? The shell is case-sensitive.
<Mydim3> and there i a file and it's a .sh file you can even see it clearly in the folde
<MartijnVdS> is it in the same directory?
<MartijnVdS> i.e. not ~/Downloads while you're in ~
<Mydim3> it is in my desktop
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: and what's the current working directory in your shell/terminal?
<GentileBen> !patience | Mydim3
<lubotu3> Mydim3: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com/ or http://ubuntuforums.org/ or http://askubuntu.com/
<Mydim3> i don't know
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: type 'pwd' and find out
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: type 'ls' to figure out which files are in your current directory
<MartijnVdS> A basic lesson in UNIXy shells would help you probably.
<Mydim3> esktop    Downloads  Pictures  steam.deb  Videos Documents  Music      Public    Templates
<Mydim3> desktop    Downloads  Pictures  steam.deb  Videos Documents  Music      Public    Templates
<MartijnVdS> so you're in your home directory. Which is not your desktop
<MartijnVdS> cd Desktop ("change directory, to Desktop")
<Mydim3> no
<Mydim3> i pud the file
<Mydim3> in my desktop
<MartijnVdS> yes, but the current working directory of your *shell* in your *terminal* is your home directory instead of your desktop
<Mydim3> do you have team viewer?
<MartijnVdS> so you have to change your working directory to your desktop first, by doing: cd Desktop
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: I don't see how me having teamviewer is relevant here.
<Mydim3> so you can controll my computer and do it yourself
<MartijnVdS> But then you won't learn how and why it's not working
<MartijnVdS> and it's always better to teach someone *why* something doesn't work (and how to fix it) than to just fix it
<Mydim3> i just want it to work i don'twnat to learn
<MartijnVdS> In that case, find someone else to help you. I gave you all the puzzle pieces. Some assembly required.
<Mydim3> can anyone else help me?
<MartijnVdS> 19:17 < MartijnVdS> cd Desktop ("change directory, to Desktop")
<MartijnVdS> then the AskUbuntu answer should work again
<MartijnVdS> http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/Training/Tutorials/Reference/unixprimer.html
<Mydim3> i put cd desktop now what?
<MartijnVdS> Mydim3: now you do the chmod etc., like you tried earlier
<Mydim3> chmod: cannot access âmacbuntu.shâ: No such file or directory
<Mydim3> its hard to solve that
<Mydim3> everything i do on the internet that google tells me to do does not help
<Mydim3> ohh wait
<Mydim3> the folder is not in the desktop
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> I wake up, log in and see this mess :-po
<Mydim3> hey
<Mydim3> diddlean
<Mydim3> can you help me?
<diddledan> I think !ohmy should also link to a picture of George Takai
<Mydim3> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<Mydim3> nope
<diddledan> now this raises an important question: the ECDL (European Computer Driving License).. why doesn't it teach commandline awareness?!
<Mydim3> what who are u talking to?
<diddledan> I get that they want you to be able to put a picture in your properly licensed copy of microsoft word but that doesn't actually teach anything to do with "computer driving"
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I think !fry might have some pertinent words to say about our visitor
<Mydim3> !fry
<diddledan> oh is that not part of lubotu3 ? maybe it's from #wordpress' docbot
<GentileBen> We need ubottu.
<diddledan> oovanu
<Mydim3> who here has team viewer?
<diddledan> Mydim3: teamviewer won't solve your problem
<Mydim3> yes
<diddledan> PEBKAC
<Mydim3> if they know how to fix it we can teamviewer
<GentileBen> Mydim3, we all have TeamViewer.
<Mydim3> and they controll my computer
<GentileBen> We're TeamViewer gurus.
<GentileBen> Mydim3, but nobody here wants to help you.
<diddledan> does anyone have a trojan I can borrow.
<diddledan> I've got teamviewer if so
<GentileBen> win32.diddledan
<Mydim3> lol
<Mydim3> gentile ben
<Mydim3> tv with me
<GentileBen> No.
<GentileBen> I hate you.
<Mydim3> why?
<diddledan> hate is such a strong word. try despise or loathe
<Mydim3> lol
<GentileBen> I hold you in the highest (or is that lowest?) level of contempt possible.
<Mydim3> cya nobody can help me here
<GentileBen> See? My methods work.
<diddledan> actually I would guess that pretty much everyone in here could help him. it's just that nobody wants to
<diddledan> the tipping factor for most would be: 18:19 < Mydim3> i just want it to work i don'twnat to learn
<penguin42> diddledan: Frankly people shouldn't be helping him install debs off dropbox
<diddledan> penguin42: I didn't even see that bit
<diddledan> I didn't have enough scrollback buffer
<diddledan> omg: http://genomejs.com/
<diddledan> a conversation between two friends went along the lines of: "Yeah you just gotta pay the $99 to get the information :p" reply "That's... actually incredible.... No, seriously. It used to cost millions to sequence a genome, and they wouldn't just hand you a copy - because there was nothing you could have done with it."
<ali1234> there's still nothing you can do with it
<penguin42> diddledan: I wonder what that does the FDA stuff with 23andme - i.e if someone just provides a dump of your DNA without providing any interpretation
<penguin42> the problem at the moment is it's not a full seuqnece you're getting for $99, it's specific SNPs
<ali1234> also, who made the horizontal scrollbar
<penguin42> ali1234: mydim3 with a row of !
<ali1234> à² _à² 
<diddledan> horizontal scrollbar?
<penguin42> diddledan: Yes, you know, those things they have on machines that use these WIMP systems to display information
<diddledan> penguin42: yeah, I was wondering which horizontal scrollbar, because the site at genomejs.com doesn't have one
<diddledan> it's fully-responsive to screen-width
<daftykins> diddledan: i think the best part of mydim3 was that he wanted to go through all the hassle to play TF2 on a box that i would daresay would barely draw it @ 640x480 in low detail
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> still, we have to entertain ourselves somehow
<diddledan> and if it weren't for n0bs we'd have to do something constructive to get that entertainment
<daftykins> i try to dissuade these people from their crazy plans
<diddledan> (I purposely misspelt n00bs because, well, n00bs at least are trying to learn)
<directhex> i should probably point out that the code of conduct forwns upon being a dick, and some of my scrollback is pretty dickish
<daftykins> yeah you have a mean side directhex :(
<diddledan> as long as the dickishness stays away from big-headedness you're fine. because nobody likes a big-dick-head
<diddledan> in a random aside: I fell ashamed to admit that I quite like windows 8/8.1
<aquarius> nowt shameful about that. There seems to be a reasonable amount of ideologically-based condemnation of it going on.
<aquarius> I didn't quite understand it, myself, when I played with it, but that wasn't for very long.
<MartijnVdS> I only like it on my touchscreen laptop
<daftykins> i've yet to use it natively, but i've a feeling i'd end up putting a start menu replacement on
<MartijnVdS> I've used it on my dad's desktop.. *shudder*
<diddledan> I quite like the quick-access menus from the corners
<diddledan> and I don't mind the obvious touch-friendliness of it - it still works perfectly fine for my mouse-based interactions
<diddledan> the corner-menus however suffer when on a virtual machine
<daftykins> yeah i find it hard to get any of that stuff to display
<daftykins> in fact, when i first VM'd 8 - i had to google how to shutdown.
<diddledan> I think that's where most people's problems stem from - they seem to think that a pc should always behave in established patterns - a lot of the pushback on unity is from the same camp IMO
<diddledan> from now-to-eternity
<directhex> diddledan, i blogged my thoughts on 8
<ali1234> win 8 has a lot of the same problems as unity, so it is hardly surprising that the same people don't like it
<ali1234> the biggest problem with both of them isn't that things have been moved - it is that things constantly move around
<ali1234> for example the contents of the dash when you search changes from day to day in both of them
<diddledan> I don't have a problem with that - it's an attempt at improving relevance
<directhex> ali1234, i blogged my thoughts on 8
<directhex> http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/485/
<diddledan> heh, I like how it's self-described as a rant
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: what else did you expect? ;)
<ali1234> well yes, i agree
<daftykins> hexy was never dishonest ;)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: he's like mjg59 when blogging ;)
<ali1234> but it's worse even if you don't multitask
<ali1234> even finding the button to start a program becomes an ordeal
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Win+R
<directhex> charms are a much bigger change to windows paradigm than metro
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: just like Alt+F2 in unity (instead of just tapping Win :)
<ali1234> you can't just remember where the button is, because it's in a different place every day
<directhex> ...huh?
<directhex> of the many issues with win8, i don't understand where you're seeing this one
<directhex> yes it's a unity issue, but win8's button layout doesn't change
<MartijnVdS> it's always under the Win key.. or bottom left
<ali1234> when you want to run a program you press windows key... and then you get a big mess of buttons
<ali1234> just like you do in unity
<ali1234> there is almost no difference at all
<directhex> ali1234, um... no. no no no, totally and utterly and categorically wrong
<diddledan> directhex: here's something that might blow your mind: http://www.stardock.com/products/modernmix/
<directhex> the start screen's layout remains exactly as you left it. the only changes occur when you install new apps - their icons are added to the far-right of your start screen, and can be repositioned or unpinned
<daftykins> diddledan: lmao
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I think his point is that the "start screen" is a completely different context from your desktop
<ali1234> no, that's not my point at all
<MartijnVdS> directhex: so it's a complete context switch, instead of just launching a new app
<daftykins> no he's talking about everything being jumbled up each time you look, i think
<directhex> which isn't the case
<MartijnVdS> but that doesn't really happen
<ali1234> the start screen is a huge mess of things that constantly changes
<daftykins> but i've not used it to know
<MartijnVdS> only if you install software, like directhex said
<directhex> it's the WP7 paradigm. "live tiles"
<MartijnVdS> Yeah the "live tiles" change all the time. Remove/disable them.
<directhex> ali1234, the "live tiles" display context-sensitive content, but they don't move around. e.g. the "news" live tile will show headlines. but always in the same place
<ali1234> yes. or remove/disable the online search lenses in unity. same thing
<directhex> totally not the same thing at all
<directhex> but whatevs
<GentileBen> directhex, the Xbox One interface is miles better than the PS4 interface.
<MartijnVdS> I never use the Unity "start screen" thing.. just Alt+F2
<GentileBen> PS4 = better hardware, Xbone = better software.
<MartijnVdS> that's harder in Windows, because every program is in its own "Program Files" directory, which aren't in $PATH
<diddledan> lol, X-Bone
<GentileBen> If only they could fuse together to form some kind of super-console which could play Super Mario Galaxy U.
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS, doesn't need to be. %programfiles% is a global variable in Windows.
<GentileBen> And so is %programfiles(x86)%.
<directhex> MartijnVdS, you've been able to "just type" program names in windows since... a few releases ago. definitely 7 and 8.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: sure, but not in WIn+R :)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I use Alt+F2 exclusively in Ubuntu
<GentileBen> "<ali1234> the start screen is a huge mess of things that constantly changes" <-- not in Windows 8.1. The start screen can't be modified by apps - you have to pin stuff to it intentionally, or install the apps intentionally.
<MartijnVdS> never the "windows key" mess
<GentileBen> directhex, the biggest problem with 8.0 was desktop apps polluting the Start Screen with installers, help files, web links etc.
<hamitron> which can be easily deleted
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> yeah i learn executable names and use super+R myself
<GentileBen> You mean Winkey+R
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: it's possible to get rid of the messy screen?!
<GentileBen> 99.99% of consumer keyboards today ship with at least one Windows key.
<daftykins> no i prefer to be platform independant in referring to that key
<GentileBen> Full-length keyboards usually ship with two.
<directhex> well.actually.cat
<hamitron> MartijnVdS, yes.... you tidy it ;)
<daftykins> i don't care what logo is on it :) it's super!
<directhex> the two windows keys do NOT emit the same keyboard code
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS, you upgrade to Windows 8.1, OS of champions.
<GentileBen> Um. Yes they do.
<ali1234> what about that context menu key?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: Last time I looked, it ordered stuff automagically based on use
<GentileBen> There are two Windows keys plus the context menu key on my keyboard.
<ali1234> what keycode does that emit in "cross platform" land?
<GentileBen> Logitech G15 v2.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: "Menu"
<hamitron> MartijnVdS, where?
<directhex> the left windows key and right windows key emit different keycodes
<GentileBen> Hmm it seems most keyboards only ship with a single Windows key these days.
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: Ubuntu's "launch an app" thing you get when you press the "Logo" key (Super? Windows?)
<directhex> windows treats them both the same
<GentileBen> That's interesting.
<GentileBen> Does Ubuntu have voice controls?
<hamitron> MartijnVdS, oh, I was meaning windows 8
<GentileBen> Ubuntu ON!!!!!!!
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> it's frustrating. it's not possible to configure gnome with keyboard shortcuts fed from both keys
<ali1234> KEY_LEFTMETA and KEY_RIGHTMETA here
<GentileBen> How meta.
<directhex> due to limitations in XKB
<ali1234> but i thought meta was alt?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: can't you configure two shortcuts, one for each modifier?
<GentileBen> directhex: http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=800
<GentileBen> Personally designed by Mark.
<ali1234> also the context menu key sends KEY_COMPOSE
<directhex> MartijnVdS, nope! 1:1 mapping
<MartijnVdS> ali1234:     state 0x10, keycode 135 (keysym 0xff67, Menu), same_screen YES,
<GentileBen> Anybody watching the Swansea game?
<diddledan> GentileBen: if it's designed by mark, why does it have the windows logo on the logo-key?! surely that should be either ubuntu or tux logo?
<directhex> related note: avoid keyboards with only a right key
<MartijnVdS> directhex: like most laptops?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, they usually have only left
<GentileBen> diddledan, but it's in the Canonical store...................
<GentileBen> Why would it have a Windows key, full stop?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ah yes.. mine has 2 extra now.. one below the screen and one next to the power button(??)
<GentileBen> That's terrible.
 * daftykins goes elsewhere until this topic dies down
<ali1234> because that's how you open the unity dash
<penguin42> haha that is funny, they've gone and put an Ubuntu logo on it but not bothered any further
<ali1234> the key fingerprint of bazaar.launchpad.net has changed and i can't clone anything from it
<diddledan> ali1234: it's been haxx0red? :-p
<ali1234> i hope not
<ali1234> rm-rf ~/.bazaar fixed it
<ali1234> i wish launchpad would just use git, it's far better in every way
<diddledan> git ftw
<MartijnVdS> but they've been building it around bzr since '04
<diddledan> yeah launchpad is heavily integrated into bzr or vice versa
<ali1234> that's not my problem
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh, although I've got to say the way bzr is integrated into lp is impressive
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: no, it's canonical's
<ali1234> penguin42: not really. it's a pain to browse source on the web, and merge requests are nothing that github doesn't have, (except github's are better)
<ali1234> it's also extremely slow
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: they had all of that way before github though
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_handicap_of_a_head_start
<ali1234> again, that doesn't make it good now
<penguin42> ali1234: But the merge requests are tied to the bugs quite nicely (I don't know if github has that) - it would be nice if someone had a set of stuff around git and a bug tracker to roll something like that
<ali1234> penguin42: it does
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: we use Atlassian stuff (hosted jira/bitbucket) at work, those merge requests and bugs etc. are VERY well-integrated
<ali1234> it's a bit different... and better
<penguin42> ok
<ali1234> where launchpad shines is the ability to set bug watches on other bug trackers
<ali1234> that's a killer feature really
<penguin42> nod yeh that's nice
<ali1234> also apport integration
<GentileBen> Where do you guys see Ubuntu in two years' time?
<GentileBen> Will it have differentiated itself from the other desktop distros?
<ali1234> it already has
<ali1234> next question
<GentileBen> Really?
<GentileBen> Oh you mean the tablet interface known as Unity.
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> i didn't say it was differentiated in a good way
<penguin42> GentileBen: Whether you like it or not you've got to admit it's different
<penguin42> snap :-)
<GentileBen> Damn you guys are ice cold.
<GentileBen> Mark's over there slaving away trying to destroy the Microsoft hegemony
<ali1234> no that bug was fixed, didn't you hear?
<ali1234> bug 1
<lubotu3> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<GentileBen> It's interesting how projects with pretty much the same base code go in wildly different directions based on internal politics and personalities.
<ali1234> oh, did they reopen it?
<GentileBen> ali1234, yes, Android now has majority market share IIRC.
<MartijnVdS> you can attach a bug to multiple projects
<GentileBen> As in, the number of Android devices sold quarter-on-quarter outnumber Windows devices (by a wide margin, I'd imagine).
<ali1234> no, it just has a lot of "affects this project" - it's fix released for ubuntu :)
<GentileBen> Did any of you read the article on Ars about the MS-IBM relationship and the origins of OS/2 and Windows NT?
<penguin42> oh that was an old old mess
<GentileBen> Was a fascinating read. http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/11/half-an-operating-system-the-triumph-and-tragedy-of-os2/
<penguin42> GentileBen: Did it point out the link to VMS and the way WNT is a one character offset off VMS?
<GentileBen> Apparently Parallels was developed initially as a way to run legacy OS/2 apps on modern hardware, for banks.
<GentileBen> And OS/2 failed because it ran Windows apps better than Windows itself - so people developed Windows apps which would work on both OS/2 and Windows.
<GentileBen> penguin42, no, but they did talk about NT's heritage.
<GentileBen> The guy responsible for Windows NT is apparently a genius.
<GentileBen> "David Neil Cutler, Sr. (born March 13, 1942) is an American software engineer, designer and developer of several operating systems including RSX-11M, VMS and VAXELN at Digital Equipment Corporation and Windows NT at Microsoft"
<GentileBen> He was also a lead dev on the Azure and Xbox One OS teams.
<GentileBen> That's quite a CV.
<ali1234> yeah but he's 71 years old so he's probably not going to be applying for many jobs
<GentileBen> He could live for another 50 years.
<daftykins> i wonder if such people prevent change
<ali1234> how do i rdriect LOG_DEBUG messages to a different log file with rsyslog?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: man rsyslog
<ali1234> "no manual entry for rsyslog"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: /usr/share/doc/rsyslog?
<ali1234> found a better way: http://wiki.rsyslog.com/index.php/Filtering_by_program_name
<penguin42> ali1234: rsyslog-doc ?
<ali1234> !info xbattle
<lubotu3> Package xbattle does not exist in saucy
<ali1234> !info xbattle precise
<lubotu3> xbattle (source: xbattle): Concurrent multi-player battle strategy game. In component universe, is optional. Version 5.4.1-15 (precise), package size 110 kB, installed size 344 kB
<diddledan> I wonder why it got removed?
<ali1234> i dunno, but bug 1256127
<lubotu3> bug 1256127 in command-not-found (Ubuntu) "xbattle is no longer in the repositories, still gets suggested" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256127
<ali1234> most likely it was removed because it is *very* dependent on xhosting being possible. it implements multiplayer by opening multiple X11 displays over the network
<ali1234> it was written in a time when people left X11 TCP port open with no security
<daftykins> that sounds like a terrible idea
<ali1234> terrible and hilarious
<diddledan> _that's_ how trinity got the text to appear on neo's computer?!
<daftykins> =]
<diddledan> I wonder if X11 being open to the world meant that the hamsterdance appeared on random terminal screens during the 90s?
<ali1234> usually is was the goat man
<diddledan> I'm going to need a link I think
<ali1234> trust me you don't
<brobostigon> http://www.mypebblefaces.com/apps/437/1180/ :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-29
<Devilsolution> whats the main chat chan?
<daftykins> #ubuntu
<daftykins> Devilsolution: but you can ask here too
<Devilsolution> well i wanna know
<penguin42> this is chat, #ubuntu for problems/questions about ubuntu
<Devilsolution> if drinking alcohol with other CNS depressants will kill me
<Devilsolution> as in, urgently
<penguin42> generally it's probably the wrong place to ask
<Devilsolution> nah see yeh nah
<penguin42> however, I suggest it's probably a bad idea to do that
<Devilsolution> but though
<Devilsolution> i got an apache server how does i change the permissions of apache so that it can run scripts outside of its root
<Devilsolution> id done chmod and chown and added the group i presume apache belongs to
<Devilsolution> straight 777's
<diddledan> !permissions
<lubotu3> An explanation of what file permissions are and how they can be manipulated can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FilePermissions
<Devilsolution> no i understand permissions
 * penguin42 doesn't know apache this well these days - but I think doesn't it chroot itself or otherwise really restrict itself to where it can run scripts to stop escapes
<diddledan> hint, 777 is pretty much always the wrong permissions
<Devilsolution> isnt that total access?
<diddledan> exactly
<Devilsolution> i get internal server error running anything thats required in <head>
<diddledan> giving world writable permission is pretty much frowned upon
<Devilsolution> mainly ajax but JS too
<Devilsolution> does apache belong to a group i can add for the full root recursive folders/
<Devilsolution> ?/
<penguin42> Devilsolution: Are you sure it's actually a filesystem permissions problem and not an apache config issue?
<diddledan> apache on ubuntu runs under www-data:www-data
<Devilsolution> ahh i added www-data to the group permissions for that folder
<Devilsolution> maybe apache config, ive not delved too deap
<diddledan> !xy might be pertinent
<lubotu3> diddledan: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<diddledan> !xy > Devilsolution
<lubotu3> Devilsolution, please see my private message
<diddledan> bah, it wasn't supposed to be a private
<diddledan> damned bots in different channels using different semantics
<Devilsolution> taha lol
<Devilsolution> okay, got ana apache php sql server works fine....i run a simple script that calls ajax function (so get data from another file etc) but on that call i get permission denied
<Devilsolution> automatically i thought it was something to do with apache's permissions as if apache has a group or user
<Devilsolution> the whole /var/www/ is locked down tho, i have to chmod all files to edit
<Devilsolution> want an ss of my issue?
<diddledan> I would suggest checking the /var/log/apache2/error_log to see if it says whether it's a config error or not
<Devilsolution> alright ill get on that
<Devilsolution> bbs
<Devilsolution> diddledan,  My hero
<Devilsolution> cheers boss
<Devilsolution> its all in there, ill sort it out
<Devilsolution> Another question regarding security persay
<Devilsolution> in open source like ununtu, how do we know that some random contributor for a kernel mod or embedded program isnt dodgey
<Devilsolution> like keylogger root kit style
<diddledan> the surest way is to read the sourcecode
<Devilsolution> what if its sooooo obscure that it makes no sense?
<Devilsolution> or its built into the compiler that builds the program
<diddledan> and if you're concerned that a binary package contains things outside of the original source then you'd compile the source yourself
<Devilsolution> i love taking the source, though the dependency builds take a so longggg
<penguin42> Devilsolution: In principal most of the big packages it takes a few people to have looked at a change before it can get into the code base
<penguin42> Devilsolution: In some of the smaller packages that is more of a risk
<Devilsolution> dont get me wrong, having the source code at your finger tips essentially rids the problem but it requires so much knowledge to disect a single program
<diddledan> which happens to be a benefit of opensource (despite your wording) because if you don't have the skills to analyse it the chances are someone somewhere else does have those skills
<penguin42> Devilsolution: Yeh I mean there have been experiments to find the smallest source change that can be added to introduce a security problem and they can be quite subtle, so it's not a silver bullet
<Devilsolution> even at kernal level?
<MooDoo> morning all
<daftykins> g'morn
<arsen> hi daftykins
<arsen> whatcha doing up?:)
<daftykins> yeah... about that :D
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> that was seriously unfun
<MooDoo> Myrtti: what you done?
<Myrtti> MooDoo: ssh had stopped responding during the night
<arsen> :(
<Myrtti> (I then sat half an hour wondering why things didn't reboot, forgot I had a truecrypted harddrive plugged in)
<MooDoo> oh dear :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<MooDoo> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<daftykins> could be worse, could be like the time i took 90 mins to diagnose why my PC wouldn't POST in the first year of uni
<daftykins> turned out the floppy ribbon was partially seated Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> yep i had an FDD :>
<directhex> wii u on amazon black friday in 10 mins
<daftykins> lawltendo
<directhex> resin cast piglet at 08:45!
<directhex> daftykins, whilst nintendo has been a company of screwups for about 7 years, the wii u is a better buy than the ps4/xbone right now, due to actual new gameplay offerings
<daftykins> i would buy none, sir!
<directhex> win8 pro at 10am!
<daftykins> hahaha
<directhex> lumia 820 at 2pm!
<ali1234> piglet sounds tempting
<daftykins> 22% off Wii U
<daftykins> lol 99% claimed already wth
<directhex> 120gb ssd at 4:30
<daftykins> i wonder what this Deus Ex HR Director's Cut really adds
<directhex> daftykins, you want to know?
<daftykins> just looked it up
<directhex> daftykins, better textures, integrating the DLC into the main game rather than having it as a separate app, better boss fights, and valve-style commentary
<daftykins> mm-hmm, indeed
<MooDoo> Finally that's me gone from the Fedora Project....
<daftykins> bad things occurred?
<MooDoo> daftykins: no not at all, just thought it was unfair that as i'm more into this project and have been for awhile that I carry on with my mentor duties there.
<MooDoo> daftykins: they have an ambassador program and I was a UK mentor
<daftykins> ah
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you are interested in the area of software patents and Free Software this is worth a gander... http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2013/11/taming-software-patents-for-gnu-gpld-code/index.htm
<TheOpenSourcerer> My twitter stream has just been bombarded by pics from a web dev conference in Wales this morning called #Handheld. LINGsCARS has used a Dalek as the presenter!
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://twitter.com/maddesigns/status/406068266793467904/photo/1/large
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Conference was yesterday. But anyway.
<arsen> i bought the 240gig SSD the other day, delivered yesterday, DD'd my disk onto it and playing games on it last night :D
<popey> xnox: jolla phone uses btrfs.. just sayin' â»
<popey> Morning all.
<daftykins> morning sir
<MooDoo> morning popey
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS :)
<daftykins> time to beat simply mail solutions around the head
<popey> \o/ printer has been dispatched
<popey> going to spend the day looking out the window for the delivery dude
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> webcam!
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<daftykins> motion detection + audible alarms
<daftykins> if you're really cunning, identify the delivery firm from the footage :>
<MartijnVdS> any chef gurus in here? :)
<directhex> if you're extra cunning, order from companies using DPD so you have a 1 hour delivery slot
<directhex> MartijnVdS, don't undercook poultry!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Sure, but I'm talking about the other chef
<popey> bork bork bork!
 * directhex rolls the dice
<directhex> your CouchDB configuration is bad.
<arsen> XD
 * directhex rolls the dice
<directhex> apache-solr needs to be reinstalled
<MartijnVdS> I'm just writing my first recipes..
<MartijnVdS> and I'm confused
 * directhex rolls the dice
<arsen> directhex  could do linux comedy standup.
<MartijnVdS> arsen: he'd get boo-ed off stage
<directhex> oh, of course you don't use chef's init script, you run it via cron!
 * directhex rolls the dice
<directhex> wrong erlang version.
<arsen> i get the impression directhex has suffered chef before.
<directhex> arsen, this is opscode chef standup!
 * directhex rolls the dice
 * arsen is playing with puppet atm.
<directhex> no, those instructions only work for tarballs, not for the Debian packages
 * TheOpenSourcerer is hungry - might have to wander over to the station and get a sausage roll or something...
 * directhex rolls the dice
<directhex> ah, your $PATH is wrong. that changed between chef versions. sorry
<MartijnVdS> anyway.. I'm wondering if adding an "execute" block will *always* execute, or if it will only execute if I trigger it from something else. (I want the second one)
<MartijnVdS> resource is the name I guess
<MartijnVdS> instead of 'block'
<mungbean> morning chaps
<MooDoo> mungbean: morning :) and don't forget Myrtti she's not a chap ;) hee hee
<mungbean> haven't seen her this morning though ;P
 * mungbean scrolls back
<mungbean> bit chatty this morning aren't we?
<Myrtti> I'm always here.
<MooDoo> mungbean: it's the storm before the lull ;)
<Myrtti> even when I've detached tmux, I get push notifications to my phone if someone mentions my nickname
<mungbean> typical, yesterday my wife had to poke me to wake up to do the early start with baby, today when its her turn i'm wide awake for 2 hrs waiting for the alarm
 * popey notes company 08768324 on companieshouse.gov.uk has an interesting name
<arsen> risky information to share Myrtti
<popey> "DROP TABLE CONSULTANTS; LTD"
<Myrtti> arsen: not really, I can always set it to ignore persistant spammers
<arsen> spose, annoyingly my 'friends' are the kinda poeople that drop me messages in the middle of the night :D
<Myrtti> arsen: also my phone is on mute during night hours
 * popey hugs irssinotifier
<popey> will need to do something similar for ubuntu touch
<popey> kinda implemented it with irssi proxy, but not the same
<arsen> ooh, thanks for the hint, popey.
 * arsen checks out irssinotifier
<Myrtti> I ended up flashing my Galaxy Nexus with CM in the end and there's lots of stuff there I miss in the stock Android
<mungbean> needs to write a 3 line bio
<MooDoo> Myrtti: did you use the new tool to flash it before it was removed from google play?
<Myrtti> MooDoo: no, didn't bother
<ali1234> http://seravo.fi/2013/jolla-phone-first-impressions
<ali1234> interchangable backs with/without keyboard... that's a great idea
<MartijnVdS> can't.. tell.. if.. sarcastic...
<ali1234> well, most people are very opinionated on keyboards
<ali1234> half say "i won't buy a phone without keyboard" and the other half say "keyboards are stupid, why would i ever use that"
<mungbean> even non-autistic people get a bit autistic on keyboards
<schwuk> popey: sounds like little bobby setup a business
<ali1234> i don't expect many people will be swapping the back on a regular basis but if it keeps costs down (and it will, because they don't need to make two fully different phones) then that's great
<popey> he's all grown up
 * mungbean wonders where all his colleagues are today
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://imgur.com/7OQBDnO
<MartijnVdS> popey: also, https://twitter.com/khalleth/status/398863797760184320
<popey>    58 root      20   0     0    0    0 R  64.9  0.0  21:31.30 kswapd0
<popey> eek
<popey> KiB Mem:   8056528 total,  6205604 used,  1850924 free,     1232 buffers
<popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  8265076 used,     2696 free,   956336 cached
 * popey closes some chromium tabs
<MartijnVdS> kill something! quick!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ooops - Perhaps the US DoD should have used Free Software: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25137089
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6493309/
<popey> â¹
<MartijnVdS> popey: are you one of those people who never closes a tab ;)
<MartijnVdS> a "tab hoarder" ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> alord@hrun:~$ top
<TheOpenSourcerer> top - 09:47:01 up  2:11,  2 users,  load average: 0.32, 0.56, 0.46
<TheOpenSourcerer> Tasks: 197 total,   1 running, 194 sleeping,   0 stopped,   2 zombie
<TheOpenSourcerer> %Cpu(s):  1.3 us,  0.4 sy,  0.0 ni, 98.2 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.0 si,  0.0 st
<TheOpenSourcerer> KiB Mem:   3842640 total,  3675536 used,   167104 free,   164936 buffers
<TheOpenSourcerer> KiB Swap:  3999740 total,     7520 used,  3992220 free,  1289992 cached
<TheOpenSourcerer>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S  %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
<TheOpenSourcerer>  2559 alord     20   0 1461m 481m  51m S   1.7 12.8  16:38.52 firefox
<popey> not really
<popey> i used to
<ali1234> how did you manage to achieve 8GB swap used?
<popey> well indeed!
<dwatkins> must be all those tabs
<ali1234> that would take several days on my system
<TheOpenSourcerer> 27 tabs
<popey>  09:47:45 up 5 days, 12:30,  4 users,  load average: 2.41, 3.75, 3.11
<ali1234> from the point where it started swapping
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ ps aux | grep -c chromium-browser
<popey> 55
<ali1234> during which the computer would be entirely unusable
<popey> its usable for me
<popey> ssd may help that
<popey> 95 degrees C
<ali1234> any swapping at all completely freezes my computer
<ali1234> the USB I/O problems persist too
<popey> I am using upstream 3.12
<ali1234> i was flashing a ISO to USB yesterday, the I/O load created by doing this cut off my network
<popey> doing mad amounts of context switching
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6493316/
<ali1234> i wonder if cgroups can finally provide the facility of memory and swap priority on processes
<popey> I had a hangout running up until line 23
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: last time I had that was in the USB1 days, when the Linux USB stack was in its infancy
<popey> i still get it now
<Myrtti> oh man, work has company wide mandatory 'development days' on 2nd of Jan - and Sherlock is on on 1st
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: It is?
<Laney> pgrep -f -c chromium-browser!
<Myrtti> yes, gatiss announced it on Twitter about 5 minutes ago
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: \o/
<ali1234> "development days" = skiving, right?
<Myrtti> https://twitter.com/Markgatiss/status/406357930083360768
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Electronic Greetings Day! :-D
<MooDoo> Myrtti: i need to work with your company lol
<Laney> a development day is a free day off?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: 01001000 01000101 01001100 01001100 01001111
 * MartijnVdS sends a mail to popey about command line history
 * TheOpenSourcerer loves CTL+R with a passion :-D
<popey> I've only recently started using that
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you'll love this then: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/1288/preserve-bash-history-in-multiple-terminal-windows
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<xnox> does that actually work.
 * xnox never seems to get multi-bash history work.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> http://pragprog.com/ - books half price with code turkey2013
<bigcalm> Are they a good publisher?
<Myrtti> brilliant day for the Internet to stop working properly
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: I will try that - it is indeed somewhat annoying how each terminal is treated separately.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But of course I now need a common .bashrc across loads of different servers ;-)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it won't work across servers, obviously (as history is stored in ~/.bash_history)
 * TheOpenSourcerer dreams of a symlink over ssh
<MartijnVdS> it would work if those servers shared home dirs
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: I didn;t mean a common bash history. I meant a common .bashrc
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I sync mine over U1
<popey> yeah, have a common one in a synced folder
<popey> and call it from .bashrc
<TheOpenSourcerer> hmm - I don't use U1 or other cloud things on our customer servers
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wonder if I could put it in git???
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: put it in chef/puppet/... ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> WTF is chef/puppet?
<bigcalm> Muppets?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.opscode.com/chef/ http://puppetlabs.com/
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: basically, a central repository for all your server configs, so you can replace/rebuild them quickly (or add new ones, etc.)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you usually choose one, not both at the same time ;)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: might be useful if you're setting up a big cluster of similar machines.. ;)
<Myrtti> oh great, I can't even go to the talktalk website to see if they're having problems
 * Myrtti sometimes forgets she has tinternets in the phone too
<dwatkins> Myrtti: this one? http://www.talktalk.co.uk/servicestatus/
<popey> hah
<popey> ustream app on ps4, their top live show is pr0n
<popey> quality
<Laney> heh
<Laney> mine just arrived
<Myrtti> dwatkins: probably "The server at talktalk.co.uk is taking too long to respond."
<dwatkins> Myrtti: bah, they seem to have several open issues anyway
<Myrtti> atleast it's not Tuesday when this is happening
<Myrtti> I have two Google Hangouts then
<Myrtti> now I only have a AC meeting
<Myrtti> looks like a lot of stuff I use daily have been blackholed somehow
 * TheOpenSourcerer left talktalk a couple of months ago as they were just *so* rubbish.
<Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: the idea has crossed my mind several times, but somehow there's always been some valid points why we've not done it yet
<Myrtti> I just might have a discussion about this with dsample again tonight, I'm sure he'll agree if his annoyance on not being able to browse autotrader is bad enough
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: My predecessor changed most of the phones & broadband to TalkTalk just before I started, its been a completely awful change, took months to get the phone lines set up properly, I wish he'd asked me before he changed
<DJones> I wish I knew why our enquiries@ email address keeps getting mail asking if we have any hotel room vacancies for ../../.... dates, we're a bloody tyre fitters, what do they think we're going to do, house people in old tyres
<bigcalm> How is variety still not in the USC? Tsk
<bigcalm> DJones: google for that email address
<DJones> To be honest, they go straight into the junk mail anyway so get ignored, just have to wonder how they decided to send the spam anyway
<awilkins> I keep getting phone calls asking for various scrap car parts because my phone number is the same as a scrap yard but the scrapyard has a Manchester area code
<TheOpenSourcerer> We get calls for Maplins Support ;-)
<bigcalm> Our office number ends 76. Another web dev company has the same number, ending 79. That was annoying for a while
<popey> bigcalm: because the developer never submitted it to usc
<popey> ask him to
<popey> then davmor2 can approve it
<bigcalm> Oh, odd
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> see, not everything is our fault
<bigcalm> Hehe :P
<davmor2> meh who didn't do what now
<bigcalm> davmor2: sorry about the LUG
<davmor2> bigcalm: I was just getting ready to go and james turned up so we just had a chat about life and work and I gave him a tour of the phone :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> davmor2: just James, no Gretchen?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Gretchen wasn't feeling on top of the world.
<bigcalm> :(
<davmor2> yeah I said to pass on my regards
<bigcalm> I hope she'll be okay to come to the meal on the 11th
<dutchie> ooh, variety? not heard of that
<bigcalm> dutchie: http://peterlevi.com/variety/how-to-install/
<dutchie> it'd be an improvement on my current system of dubious shell scripts
<dutchie> yeah, just googled it
<bigcalm> Ah, fair enough :)
<bigcalm> I just added a comment suggesting he submit it to the USC
<dutchie> cool :)
<dutchie> now, back to work
<bigcalm> Does anybody know how to restrict sudo so that a given user can only sudo as another given user?
<dwatkins> can't you just remove them from the admin group, bigcalm?
<davmor2> dwatkins: what admin group
<dutchie> remove them from sudo group, and add something like "user = ALL(target_user) ALL" to /etc/sudoers
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think you can just remove them from sudoers
<dwatkins> oh sorry, got confused between OS X and Ubuntu/Linux
<bigcalm> Humm
<dutchie> bigcalm: man 5 sudoers
<davmor2> dwatkins: no there used to be an admin group it got removed
<dutchie> it's just called "sudo" now
<dwatkins> ah ok, at least it's not the confusingly-named "wheel" ;)
<MartijnVdS> bsd--
<dutchie> (don't forget to use visudo to edit sudoers)
<bigcalm> I added this to /etc/sudoers: hayley	ALL=(iain) ALL
<bigcalm> I logged in as hayley and tried: sudo su - iain
<bigcalm> I got this error: Sorry, user hayley is not allowed to execute '/bin/su - iain' as root on proliant.discworld.cuth.eu.
<dwatkins> I wanted to allow sudo with no password for specific commands, but couldn't find the part of the documentation that explained this in anything but extremely complex terms.
<bigcalm> And yet...
<bigcalm> hayley@proliant:~$ sudo -u iain whoami
<bigcalm> iain
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: echo $USER
<bigcalm> So how do I let hayley become iain?
<Laney> "as root" is the key
<dutchie> bigcalm: sudo -u iain -i
<Laney> sudo -u iain -i?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: sudo -u iain -i
<dutchie> lol
<Laney> HAHA!
<bigcalm> Yay !
<MartijnVdS> $HOME will be correct now as well
<dutchie> dwatkins: user = ALL NOPASSWD: /bin/foo, /usr/bin/bar
<dutchie> er
<dutchie> move the = one word left
<dutchie> but that should work
<dwatkins> thanks dutchie :)
<ali1234> is there like, reverse sudo?
<ali1234> where you have to type your password to run a command as yourself
<bigcalm> o.O
<dutchie> ali1234: you could write a wrapper around bash -e and set it as login shell or something
<ali1234> i have done that, but it's kind of messy
<penguin42> ali1234: su nobody ?
<ali1234> so i have some piece of software and i want it to a) always run as a specific user, and b) require me to type my password whenever i try to run it
<ali1234> i implemented this by shadowing the binary with a script in ~/bin with the same name, which does sudo -u <user> <program> $@
<ali1234> but this is kind of hacky and i thought maybe there was a better way
<ali1234> maybe with setuid and "reverse sudo" (which is something i just made up)
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah, with selinux I think you could do that by having to change context/policy/whatever it's called - not sure how to without
<dutchie> could do some wacky permissions like 750 or something?
<directhex> only Â£9.99 for WoW Mists of Pandaria on Amazon Black Friday! do NOT pay attention to the Â£7 price on Blizzard's website!
<dutchie> for (a) at least
<penguin42> ali1234: You could just put the program on a directory that was only visible to a particular user
<ali1234> i could, but then i wouldn't be able to run it...
<ali1234> i want to avoid the need for the script
<ali1234> i mean that's effectively what i've done
<dutchie> why not just sudo -u user by hand?
<ali1234> the user that really runs it can't see the script, cos it's in my normal user homedir
<dutchie> anyway i should be doing topology
<ali1234> and my user can't "see" the really binary because the script shadows it
<bigcalm> popey: davmor2: http://peterlevi.com/variety/about-variety/#comment-8430
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah he went through the old queue via the ARB.
<directhex> Azelphur, is there any cryptocurrency right now worth mining on a geforce?
<ali1234> directhex: maybe primecoin on cpu?
<directhex> ali1234, my CPU is 5 years old :/
<popey> bigcalm: great, get submitting!
<ali1234> apparently there's a gpu miner for it now
<bigcalm> popey: me submit? I'm confused
<popey> he said anyone could submit
<bigcalm> But it would also mean me maintaining the package
<penguin42> directhex: Buy it cake?
<ali1234> how does variety change the wallpaper? by what api?
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah you wanted it in USC :P You get to look after it :D
<davmor2> ali1234: magic
<bigcalm> I stated surprise only
<bigcalm> dbus?
<ali1234> it claims to work on xubuntu but i find that hard to believe
<bigcalm> I wrote a background changer a very long time agao
<ali1234> considering all the pain i went through the past week fixing xubuntu wallpaper rendering
<ali1234> unless it just opens a window over your existing desktop
<bigcalm> This takes me back a bit: http://lazygnome.net/projects/mdebc/0.1/mdebc-pl.txt
<penguin42> ali1234: xsetroot ?
<ali1234> no, xsetroot absolutely doesn't work in xubuntu
<MooDoo> bigcalm: 2006 :)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: happy times ;)
<penguin42> ali1234: yeh I mean it's not worked for a long long time
<ali1234> it doesn't work with compositing WM
<davmor2> bigcalm: you saying you're unhappy now?
<penguin42> ali1234: Perhaps it just has a list of different environments and what to do in each case?
<ali1234> hsetroot does, if the WM supports it, which xfwm4 does, but only when you use my patches
<ali1234> but xfdesktop does not, so if that's running, you won't actually see the hsetroot wallpaper (xfwm4 will draw it, then xfdesktop will draw on top, hiding it)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm happy that it's Friday and I get to stay with my parents this weekend. Most of my time will be spent replacing the HDD with an SSD in my father's laptop and then a reinstall of Windows 7
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: heh, that sounds like my weekend
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: excepy my dad has Win8 to put on the SSD, and he's reasonable computer-savvy (he taught me how to code, long long ago ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: take a usb caddie drop the ssd in it dd the hdd to the ssd, plug in the ssd start the laptop
<bigcalm> davmor2: I could copy one to the other, but I don't want to. It's time for a fresh install
<davmor2> bigcalm: Ah fair enough
<bigcalm> Plus, the SSD is smaller than the HDD. So it wouldn't be happy
<davmor2> bigcalm: you might want to grab the sp's for win7 on a cd that would speed things up a bit
<davmor2> bigcalm: you could clonezilla/fog it that would take care of it :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I have access to the MS partner thingy, I don't see the SPs as a download
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=5842 but it should be on msdn
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> Ta
 * bigcalm hunts for a DVD-R
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Really? -R not +R?
<bigcalm> Oh, it appears that I have +R
<bigcalm> From 2003
<popey> so many exciting things arriving on a friday!
<popey> new printer, new usb hub
<popey> its like christmas!
<MartijnVdS> popey: Sinterklaas is next week ;)
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas
<penguin42> which printer?
<popey> hp thingy
<popey> colour multifunction
 * Laney got new PS4 :>
<popey> cock, I thought I'd bought a usb3 one
<popey> ah no, i decided not to didnt I
<MooDoo> Laney: my work collegue has one on his desk right now
<Laney> for himself?
<MooDoo> yeah
<Laney> I love those days
<Laney> really keen to get home
<MooDoo> you sounds just like my friend
<Laney> I'm already at home, so get to play at lunch :>
<dwatkins> I considered getting a PS4, but I still have plenty of stuff to do is KSP.
<dwatkins> *in
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6493920/ hub nearly full already!
<davmor2> popey: what size hub, and why didn't you get the hp multicolour thingy that is wireless so it doesn't need a usb port ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Unusual vehicle parked in our car park today... http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaPc19PCUAAoiqz.jpg:large
<GentileBen> dwatkins we should start an #ubuntu-uk clan.
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS I feel the need to raise the spectre of Zwarte Piet yet again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
<GentileBen> http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/nov/29/morrissey-attacks-us-obama-thanksgiving lol, I'm sure Obama cares what a 1980s UK musician thinks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> "musician"... Hmmm, I'd use that term rather loosely myself
<penguin42> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fEer4hvILSE/UpX8En17cVI/AAAAAAAACy8/N50-W4CT6Bk/w350-h384-no/2013+-+1
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> davmor2: I *did* get a networked printer, the USB hub is for the USB devices on my desk
<penguin42> popey: What are colour lasers like for images these days?
<popey> dunno, not using it for that
<GentileBen> TheOpenSourcerer: I used to defend Morrissey from the red tops until I actually listened to Morrissey giving his opinions on things.
<penguin42> popey: Well yeh, I know you're mostly using it for printing fivers, but I just wondered
<GentileBen> He's one of the most ignorant celebrities I know of.
<popey> heh
<GentileBen> I'd rather hang out with Jade Goody's ghost than Morrissey.
<mungbean> :-|
<MartijnVdS> they're "okay"
<popey> well.. printing to that printer from OSX caused it to obtain a 169 style bonjour IP
<popey> which confused me for a bit
<mungbean> is it true that printers have a unique "invisbile yellow code" to detect the oringitaor of said fiver
<mungbean> of is that photocopiers
<popey> yes
<popey> https://w2.eff.org/Privacy/printers/docucolor/
<ali1234> it's both
<mungbean> where on the page?where on the page are those dots?
<mungbean> woops
<penguin42> all over
<mungbean> The same grid is printed repeatedly over the entire page, but the repetitions of the grid are offset slightly from one another so that each grid is separated from the others
<mungbean> felt v nervous spending a Â£50 note the other day
<popey>  3989 alan      20   0 2095m 467m 1764 S   5.3  5.9 108:53.05 hud-service
<popey> bah
<TheOpenSourcerer> Noodles!
<TheOpenSourcerer> In a Pot!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bombay Bad Boy for lunch :-D
<diplo> mungbean: Nice to have one!
<diplo> :)
<popey> yes! noodles, great idea
<diplo> Yuk, can't stand pot noodles
<GentileBen> I just realised I have The Communist Manifesto next to Atlas Shrugged in my bookshelf. How...coincidental.
<ali1234> pics or it didn't happen
<mungbean> diplo: unfortunately it was cash in hand for buying stuff off my credit card for a friend without a CC :S
<mungbean> so i've spent the money and will pay when the cc bill comes :(
<diplo> heh, I always do that as well.. wish people would do bank transfers as I'm more likely to pay CC off
<diplo> I don't think I've been into the bank in 3+ years
<ali1234> if you're worried about fake bills you can get some of those detector pens
<ali1234> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Helix-Counterfeit-Currency-Detector-Pen/dp/B000I5SB3A
<MooDoo> the pens aren't that reliable though
<ali1234> they'll detect if someone gives you a 50 they printed on their inkjet printer though :)
<MartijnVdS> and who doesn't, in these days of economic distress
<popey> Hm. My laptop just spontaneously suspended
<MartijnVdS> Low power?
<MartijnVdS> Wrong Fn combination key accidentally?
<shauno> put a magnet too close to the front of a mac?  ;)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's his personality.. too magnetic 8-)
<popey> i was watching a video, not touching the keyboard
<popey> it could have been a momentary power blip
<popey> but my desktop and server didnt go out
<MartijnVdS> popey: could it have been suspend because it was idle?
<MartijnVdS> say, 30 minutes idle = suspend
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6494234/
<popey> nope
<MartijnVdS> popey: too hot?
<bigcalm> Laptops have a built in UPS ;)
<MartijnVdS> popey: try dmesg -T for human-readable timestamps on that
<penguin42> popey: Admit it you've got a 0 14 * * 5 pm-suspend # weekend
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6494238/
<MartijnVdS> popey: that ends 2 days ago..
<shauno> laptops have a builtin UPS .. until the power fluctuation is anything over than a straight blackout.  and then you discover they have no protection against surge/spike/brown/etc
<popey> wtf
<ali1234> my syslog is just: "Nov 29 14:12:24 al-desktop whoopsie[1342]: online" over and over again
<MartijnVdS> whoopsie!
<popey> why has dmesg stopped
<MartijnVdS> popey: the timestamps might be "off" because you've suspended often
<MartijnVdS> popey: check /var/log/kern.log to be sure
<popey> Nov 29 14:17:17 deep-thought kernel: [296851.534664] CPU3: Core temperature/speed normal
<popey> last line of that file
<ali1234> what file is it?
<MartijnVdS> has the system been asleep for 2 days total since boot? :)
 * popey shrugs
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6494244/
<popey> overheat
<MartijnVdS> popey: maybe one of these can help minimize that? http://www.amazon.co.uk/tag/laptop%20cooling%20pad/products
<penguin42> popey: THis laptop seems to be running hot with +1 on it - It's a while since it's had Ubuntu on this one but ht eprevious Arch and opensuse weren't running the fan like Ubuntu is, not sure what's different
<popey> no good MartijnVdS its in a docking station
<MartijnVdS> popey: oh, hmm.. :(
<bigcalm> binary drivers not doing their job in keeping the GPU tempt down and having a knock on to the CPU?
<penguin42> bigcalm: This box is plain intel
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/393053146/powerup-30-smartphone-controlled-paper-airplane
<ali1234> nakamura lock \o/
<popey> never heard of it..
<popey> now I have
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: That has been rather successful!
<TheOpenSourcerer> 4x funded in what? 3 days?
<ali1234> i'm constantly amazed how few people in the uk know how to fold the nakamura lock... even fewer know the name of it
<ali1234> i was taught it by an american kid at my school
<bigcalm> Oh, it's available for android as well as iOS. I'll back it then :)
<bigcalm> Hang on, Android 4.3? I am stuck on 4.1.2 :(
<popey> by the time you get it... next year though..?
<ali1234> i kind of doubt it really needs 4.3
<bigcalm> popey: good point
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: how's your SGS3 coping?
<popey> I backed it â»
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a bit fscked bigcalm
<bigcalm> :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> It works but the 4.3 update was really pants.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sometimes you can't answer the phone - screen won't turn on...
<Myrtti> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1470156778/wipebook <-- dsample backed this few days back after I showed it to him seeing Xalior had backed it first
<TheOpenSourcerer> Battery drains much faster.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Occasional total lock ups - remove the battery job.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But other than that it's fine :-)
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that looks funky
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: have you considered wiping it and starting fresh?
<popey> DAMMIT
<popey> [299369.229049] thinkpad_acpi: EC reports that Thermal Table has changed
<popey> [299370.273453] thinkpad_acpi: EC reports that Thermal Table has changed
 * popey logs out/in
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Yes.
 * TheOpenSourcerer has also considered CM
<Azelphur> Newegg has 3TB HDDs for $89.99 (Â£55) fyi folks
<Azelphur> deal will probably only last the day
<popey> KiB Mem:   8056528 total,  2075896 used,  5980632 free,   128184 buffers
<popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,   220516 used,  8047256 free,  1035996 cached
<popey> better
<penguin42> Azelphur: ebuyer listing them at 75 on discount
<TheOpenSourcerer> but at this moment isn't that bothered. TBH my phone is mostly used for email and as a camera + a bit of social networking. It works... Just.
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea, Â£20 more :)
<popey> isnt newegg USA though?
<popey> so you'll have VAT etc to pay
<Azelphur> popey: yea, but it's easy enough to get one, just get someone to ship you one in (Plenty of people on -otc would do it)
<penguin42> popey: Hmm on an item under #100? Maybe
<Azelphur> I never paid VAT on the ones I brought in last year :x
<AlanBell> in syslog I get this "Nov 29 15:02:05 alanlaptop kernel: [421324.992804] [drm:intel_update_fbc], more than one pipe active, disabling compression" 76 times a second
<popey> nice
<popey> \o/ intel
<ali1234> AlanBell: ok you win :)
<Laney> muhahaha
<Laney> I didn't get a code with my PS4 for some DLC that I should have had. Complained to Amazon. Â£63.75 refund \o/
<Myrtti> why am I crying when watching a kickstarter project video about cast iron pots and pans? OMG Miia get a grip
<Myrtti> (they are very beautiful though)
<Laney> was expecting a fiver and a packet of crisps
<penguin42> why do they need to kickstart making cast iron pots and pans - it's been done for centuries without kickstarter
<ali1234> magic internet cast-iron pots and pans?
<Myrtti> why do they need kickstarter to make wallets, watches, magazines, phones...
<Myrtti> it's been done for decades, if not centuries!
<diddledan> AlanBell: I hope your system isn't on an SSD with writes to disc at least 76 times a second
<AlanBell> diddledan: it sure is
 * AlanBell thinks SSD fud is fud
<diddledan> it might be fud, but the ideas it's based on are true in that an ssd does have a finite amount of writes before it can't write no more
<popey> not anywhere near as low number of writes as people will have you believe
<Seeker`> so does a HDD in practice :P
<Seeker`> spinning mechanical parts can only spin for so long...
<ali1234> i've got harddrives over 10 years old that still work
<ali1234> actually by now some of them must be getting on for 20 years
<AlanBell> and no SSDs over 10 years old that still work I bet :)
<ali1234> no
<AlanBell> proof!
<ali1234> i did have memory cards 10 years ago - none of them still work though
<ali1234> i was thinking of getting a ssd the other day actually
<penguin42> they are wonderful as boot disk
<ali1234> i only boot about twice a month though
<popey> s/boot/root/
<ali1234> after i've booted everything is in ram
<bigcalm> Importing 2.9GB mysql dump takes it's sweet time on my proliant micro server :(
<diddledan> bigcalm: that's a big database dump
<diddledan> bigcalm: are you allowed to tell us where it's from (type of application e.g.)
<bigcalm> diddledan: it is rather large, and will only grow with time
<bigcalm> diddledan: not really :(
<bigcalm> Erm, a monitoring application is possibly as vague as I can be :)
 * AlanBell imported the precise location of every postcode in the UK into mysql in 17 seconds earlier
<diddledan> bigcalm: figured as much - don't worry, I understand that quite often things can't be discussed. it's just the nature of business
 * penguin42 notes precise and postcode are generally a bit incompatible
<diplo> bigcalm: Still doing PHP ?
<bigcalm> diplo: aye, it pays the bills :)
<diplo> Or anyone else I guess, what do you use ( if at all ) to export to Excel
<diplo> ?
<bigcalm> PHPExcel :)
<bigcalm> It's a great lib
<bigcalm> Use it daily
<diddledan> penguin42, AlanBell : we had problems with postcode to police-region lookups - aparently some postal code prefixes split between hampshire and scotland
<bigcalm> diplo: http://phpexcel.codeplex.com/
<diplo> Yeah tis what I use, wants to much on shared hosting and shared hosting exhaust with memory errors :/
<bigcalm> Poo
<diplo> I've used the pear one before that's defunct and that worked with same data so pretty sure its a phpexcel issue
<diplo> Again, I need to move my hosting..
<diplo> :/
<penguin42> diddledan: Hampshire and scotland?!
<diddledan> penguin42: yeah, I can't remember the exact details but my boss put his postal code from some backwater in hampshire into our system and it spat out a northern police region
<bigcalm> diplo: it's on github now: https://github.com/PHPOffice/PHPExcel
<diddledan> this was around a year ago when we were doing choosemypcc.org.uk
<bigcalm> Which is handy to use as a git submodule
<diplo> I could probably doing with upgrading, reading a few SO posts they have improved it quite a bit.
<diplo> Ta for link
<bigcalm> Yus
<diplo> On 1.7.6 newest is 1.8 i think.
<diplo> PITA! I really don't want to make any more fixes :(
<bigcalm> That's PHP for you :D
<popey> well. phoned up lenovo because of my overheating laptop and they're sending someone on wednesday
<popey> that was easy
<diplo> Yep vvery true bigcalm, why I want out and into a sysadmin job again
<bigcalm> Coo, that mysql dump import is still going on
<dwatkins> GentileBen: a clan in KSP?
<penguin42> popey: You have onsite support with Lenovo?
<popey> yes
<popey> cost 45 quid
<popey> best 45 quid I have ever spent
<popey> this is the third call out
<penguin42> do you have to show the problem in Windows or what?
<popey> he didnt ask any questions
<popey> and i have previously never had any of that nonsense with lenovo
<dwatkins> it's PC World that will refuse to support a hardware problem if you have Linux installed
<dwatkins> broken hinge? get lost, you put Linux on it!
<mungbean> i don't think they would know
<mungbean> don't ask don't tell
 * TheOpenSourcerer frequently dumps and imports > 1GB mysql databases. Am always amazed at, in reality, how quick it actually is when I ponder the actual volume of data involved.
 * TheOpenSourcerer always uses mysqldump and mysql db < sql.file rather than any php malarkey however
<awilkins> I used to get Small Business units from Dell rather than home / retail ones
<dwatkins> I keep meaning to install a machine with Windows as the default boot option and a quick, blank grub window so that if it gets stolen, it boots into Windows (where I have Prey installed so I can track it etc.).
<awilkins> Just because of the onsite support
<dwatkins> Naturally I'd boot Ubuntu all the time...
<awilkins> Held the phone up to the hard drive when it had a click of death one time. Replacement drive was couriered in 0800 next day.
<dwatkins> impressive
<penguin42> awilkins: Was that on the bronze/silver/gold support stuff?  I once heard the gold support as like the others but they believed you when you rang them
<awilkins> penguin42, Dunno, just the small business next-day support
<awilkins> They would also do the silly things like sending a vast box with one "K" type screw in it.
<penguin42> haha
<awilkins> The K ones are the teensy little grub screws that hold the keyboard in
<penguin42> awilkins: Cisco support contracts were good for that; big box with a cardboard envelope floating in it, with an A4 sheet with an ID sticker in one small corner
<mungbean> wht makes me sad about kickstarter? add $20 to send outside US
<mungbean> wow, that kano kicktarter is $846,000 now
<popey> kano?
<popey> oh, the computer
<diplo> woohoo ini_set worked bigcalm :)
<diplo> never used to
<bigcalm> Maybe your host has calmed down a bit
<diplo> Maybe, well after the errors I got with new phpexcel I'm glad as I really didn't want to debug :)
<bigcalm> Just got another spam from the watercress line (yes, I signed up for it). Do people want to do the RAT again next year?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting chart via Tim O'Reilly https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/116524915824016011781/albums/5950217041981635649/5950217043149210562?pid=5950217043149210562&oid=116524915824016011781
<TheOpenSourcerer> IOS is almost flat in terms of overall market share...
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: I'm always up for a RAT :-D
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: then why did Italy happen? :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Work/Business and it's Italy ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> The RAT is 10mins down the road for me...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have been on it quite a few times
<popey> AlanBell: what do you want me to do with these ethernet bits?
<Azelphur> continuing my black friday deals PSAs, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASUS-Google-Nexus-7-FHD-7-32GB-Wi-FI-Android-4-3-2nd-Generation-Tablet-NEW-/281216658647?clk_rvr_id=553908906948
<Azelphur> the usual price (direct from google) is Â£239
<daftykins> i guess that's with VAT on, from Google?
<Azelphur> daftykins: that's a UK seller, no VAT and free delivery, Â£189.99 is the price you pay.
<popey> thats quite a bargain
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> but is Google's Â£239 inclusive?
<Azelphur> daftykins: I /think/ google actually charges shipping on top
<Azelphur> but not sure
<Azelphur> so that deal is at least Â£50 cheaper than google, more if they charge for delivery
<popey> he's asking about VAT, not delivery
<daftykins> after all, i'm a 'tax dodger' :>
<Azelphur> daftykins: both prices are inc VAT
<popey> free delivery
<Azelphur> I would think
<popey> yes, 239 from goog includes vat
<daftykins> hrmm ok so that's 199 straight off
<daftykins> vs. 158 if there's a mechanism to get the VAT off on ebay
<popey> woudln't be surprised if they aren't paying VAT
<daftykins> ah it's a US one too
<ali1234> Azelphur: shouldn't you be posting bitcoin deals or something?
<Azelphur> ali1234: oh, here's me used to everyone following things
<Azelphur> namecheap 10% off for bitcoin payments, 40% off all VPS products for life @ SimpleNode, 35% off all webhosting @ exhosting, 40% off at mixed tees
<Azelphur> loads more here http://www.bitcoinblackfriday.com/
<Azelphur> 10% off the wikispeed car :o
<Azelphur> that's almost tempting, if I get around to learning to drive, I'd probably actually do that
<diplo> I'd like 40% off a VPS :)
<Azelphur> 109 MPG (record for a road-legal gasoline engine) and only $22k
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> and it looks pretty sweet too
<daftykins> :>
<ali1234> ooo, adafruit 10% off...
<Azelphur> http://wikispeed.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Roadster_World_Debut_1000px.jpg
<awilkins> 158MPG imperial
<awilkins> WHOOOO
<Azelphur> haha, this car is awesome
<Azelphur> it has a bug tracker
<Azelphur> "Overheats intermittently." odeer
<penguin42> just like Popey's laptop
<Azelphur> http://www.ministryofawesome.com/sites/default/files/styles/galleryformatter_slide/public/WIKISPEED_Roadster.jpg look at that though
<Azelphur> it's such a nice looking car.
<ali1234> well looks like i'm gonna be spending a lot of money at adafruit later
<awilkins> "Unstable at highway speed turning"
<awilkins> "No fuel gauge"
<daftykins> just minor issues then
<awilkins> "No wipers"
<penguin42> do you think they have a crash catcher?
<Azelphur> ali1234: :D
<GentileBen> Azelphur, how high do you think BTC is going to be before the next crash?
<Azelphur> no idea in all honesty
<GentileBen> Don't be coy!!
<GentileBen> I know you have the inside track.
<GentileBen> You're like the Paul Krugman of cryptonomics.
<GentileBen> Yes, I did just coin the neologism "cryptonomics".
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I'm dubious about it coming down tbh, it's been so strong recently
<GentileBen> Sounds like you're talking about an erection.
<Azelphur> lol
<GentileBen> I wish I'd invested when it was economical to mine with CPUs...like in the first few weeks.
<Azelphur> me too :)
<GentileBen> I mined a fraction of a BTC at work using a new server cluster, because back then it was ironic to mine miniscule amounts of coin.
<GentileBen> Hmm, how much did mining $111k worth of BTC cost you in $?
<Azelphur> ~$5k
<diddledan> lol, https://www.facebook.com/StarTrekEnterpriseSeason5NetflixCampaign
<diddledan> ignore for a moment that I posted a link to an evil privacy-invading website
<GentileBen> Eh....
<GentileBen> Why not Firefly?
<GentileBen> Of all the shows that Fox has cancelled, Firefly is the one which mades me hurt inside.
<diddledan> yeah, firefly was awesome
<diddledan> I loved the way they made it feel wild-west
<diddledan> and, well.. it had BOITH Jewel Stait AND Summer Glau
<diddledan> boith?
<GentileBen> Yeah, I saw that deleted lesbian kiss scene with those two.
<diddledan> :-)
<GentileBen> diddledan, did you just Google "Jewel Stait Summer Glau lesbian kiss Firefly"?
<diddledan> I've resisted so far
<ali1234> AlanBell: ping
<mungbean> buying and selling pages on facebook are full of xbox 360 suddenly
<mungbean> paul mcgann is appearing far too much on bbc talking about dr who
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: well Chris Eccleston wouldn't come
<mungbean> paul mcgann has about as much credentials as me
<DJones> czajkowski: This may be something that interests you http://www.viralnova.com/these-17-naughty-pugs-just-got-shamed-by-their-owners-and-the-result-is-hilarious-lol/
<popey> Chris Eccleston did come
<popey> he was at one of the 50th anniversary celebrations at the BFI
<mungbean> i'm watching some lame "ultaimte guide"
<czajkowski> DJones: lol
<mungbean> its like a noobs version
<mungbean> not sure who would watch it if they weren't a fan , so its silly
<czajkowski> DJones: http://cheezburger.com/7925663232  my litle fella
<DJones> czajkowski: That looks like typical dog behaviour
 * MartijnVdS watches "Being Elmo" on netflix
<diddledan> being EMO?
<diddledan> :-p
<popey> chaps..
<popey> http://www.nhs.uk/video/Pages/Antenatalclasses.aspx
<popey> need to figure a way to download that video
<popey> it's hosted on brightcove
<arsen> hm, i think i just cycled past James May in a Maserati.
<arsen> I wonder if he likes Ubuntu, i imagine it would be his kinda thing.
<popey> he doesn't strike me as techy
<popey> in a computer sense
<popey> ooh https://code.google.com/p/get-flash-videos/ might do it
<ali1234> that's really obviously a tweaked jwplayer
<ali1234> which means it probably doesn't do any fancy streaming
<ali1234> which means you can cache-grab it
<popey> get_flash_videos turns out to be in the repo and it just worked
<daftykins> aww that ebay Nexus 7 has disallowed shipping to the Channel Islands
<AlanBell> o/ ali1234
<daftykins> why there's such hatred for my islands i don't know
<ali1234> AlanBell: pm
<AlanBell> sure
<GentileBen> daftykins you should have it delivered by pelican.
<GentileBen> Also - why Ebay? The N7 is cheap enough from Google direct.
<daftykins> Google don't honour VAT removal
<daftykins> plus the ebay one is cheaper, which was linked earlier
<daftykins> it wouldn't be for me anywho
<GentileBen> You could have gotten AlanBell to mail it to you.
<daftykins> from England? where they pay tax? :D
<GentileBen> AlanBell is all under the table.
<AlanBell> only after *lots* of beers
<AlanBell> what is the question here?
<daftykins> ah it doesn't matter so much - i was just remarking on how a cheap ebay seller and Google themselves do not seem to care for us Channel Islanders
<daftykins> they either won't subtract VAT or won't post here
<GentileBen> What's it like being on the old enemy's doorstep?
<AlanBell> daftykins: I used to do some work for an accountancy firm for rich people, they were all about squirreling money about between tax havens, keeping it *just about* clean and above board
<daftykins> :o
<GentileBen> Aren't the CI a tax haven, AlanBell?
<daftykins> GentileBen: not sure i follow that one
<daftykins> well sort of - we have our own gov. and don't pay VAT
<daftykins> but the cost of living is 1.4x England at least
<GentileBen> What about your banking system? The one so enthusiastically embraced by Jimmy Carr.
<AlanBell> they have a different tax regime which means that anywhere there is a difference an accountant can put things in the right place
<GentileBen> daftykins, how much is a Pot Noodle?
<daftykins> we have the UK banks just with 'offshore' status
<GentileBen> A regular sized one.
<daftykins> i have no idea
<GentileBen> You're no man of the people.
<GentileBen> Do you not have a Tesco on your island?
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> although Waitrose bought out our two main supermarkets
<GentileBen> Sainsbury's? Asda? Morrisson's?
<GentileBen> *Morrisons
<daftykins> no chains nope
<GentileBen> Waitrose probably don't sell noodles unless they've been massaged by organic terrapins.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it's kind of shocking really, i've always had a NatWest account growing up
<daftykins> so i go to England for Uni, go into a NatWest branch...
<daftykins> nope sorry, you're an offshore customer. we can do nothing with those accounts, you may use the ATM and that is all
<penguin42> daftykins: Ah I know there is a Lloyds Offshore that's a separate company, I assume Natwest is the same
<GentileBen> daftykins, get AlanBell to set up a proxy account for you.
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> this conversation really got compicated fast XD
<GentileBen> My solution to everything is to get AlanBell to do something potentially illegal.
<daftykins> lmao
<diddledan> my solution to everything is to pay the prostitute so the pimp doesn't break my legs
<penguin42> daftykins: Can you pay us in milk
<GentileBen> From the prostitute?
<penguin42> from the cows
<GentileBen> How do we know the prostitutes aren't cows?
<penguin42> have you ever seen a cow in high heels and bad make up?
<diddledan> ooh, they should make a digital version of milk as a currency like bitcoins are a digital version of pounds shillings and pence, so bitmilk is a virtual version of real milk
<penguin42> diddledan: You could call it soya
<GentileBen> Soy milk is virtual milk.
<GentileBen> Is milking a cow an act of animal abuse, I wonder.
<diddledan> GentileBen: it depends whether you enjoy it or not I think
<daftykins> diddledan: is that how every Friday night ends up?
<diddledan> daftykins: pretty much
<diddledan> I didn't know she was a prostitute the first time
<diddledan> but once I'd twigged I had to be sure
<daftykins> penguin42: ah, tempted to sample the product of our very own Guernsey Golds?
<diddledan> guernsey milk had better be awesome
<daftykins> it's all i know
<penguin42> diddledan: It's supposed to be
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gmvr0829tpkazd/IMG_20131127_230500.jpg
<daftykins> here's a carton of blue
<penguin42> diddledan: where does your electricity come from?
<diddledan> penguin42: a box in the cupboard
<daftykins> hahaha
<penguin42> diddledan: I kind of meant, is it local, french or uk ?
 * daftykins forgets where diddledan is from
<diddledan> I'm not sure that you can quantify that with the national grib
<diddledan> grid
<diddledan> daftykins: amazingstoke
<penguin42> sorry, I think that question was for daftykins not diddledan
<daftykins> ah yes of course
<diddledan> too many D names
<penguin42> diddledan: I was just thinking that depending on your electricity pricing it might be a good place to run a coin mining op
<daftykins> penguin42: we do indeed have a french link cable which runs from them via Jersey, then onto Guernsey. though we also have the local power station as a backup - we used to get so many power cuts when i was growing up
<penguin42> daftykins: Interesting, the mainland imports guite a bit of French power, I guess through the same cable
<diddledan> I get confused between daftykins and dwatkins  alot because they're both the same length - and my name is the same length again so I'm sure everyone else gets confused between the three of us
<daftykins> now it's a lot more reliable, except for when the French link failed once and needed repair
<daftykins> didtkins
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> oops one short
<diddledan> diddlykins?
<daftykins> penguin42: mmm not sure, i only know of it stretching out to us
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-30
<diddledan> I think most french power to britain goes through the chunnel these days
<diddledan> though that's just pure guesswork on my part
<diddledan> based in no part on actual facts
<penguin42> it would make sense
<penguin42> ferrying capacitor trains back and forward
<diddledan> lol
<penguin42> heck, you can get 5000F capacitors these days
<ali1234> the trains are electric right?
<ali1234> do they have sub(power)stations in the tunnel?
<ali1234> or do they just have massive ones at each end?
<penguin42> wikipedia doesn't say, but it does say the power is delivered to the trains at 25kV!
<penguin42> which I guess would mean you could go a fair distance
<ali1234> yeah i'm reading that very page right now
<ali1234> no actual distances given though :(
<penguin42> http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/channel-tunnel/  either end
<ali1234> awesome
<penguin42> diddledan: http://www.4-traders.com/GROUPE-EUROTUNNEL-54576/news/GROUPE-EUROTUNNEL--and-STAR-Capital-Partners-establish-joint-venture-to-develop-an-electricity-inte-13640722/  that's for a .5GW interconnect, I don't know where the other 2GW goes
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Cross-Channel  seems kinda straightforward
<penguin42> ah nice
 * penguin42 hadn't thought of the problem with ships compasses
<diddledan> lol, that could be interesting
<shauno> the bit about the first one constantly being damaged by fishing nets sounds kinda terrifying
<shauno> reminds me of a story from a good 20 years ago of a trawler being sunk because it 'caught' a submarine.  thar be monsters indeed
<penguin42> shauno: I think there's still a lot of damage to fibres like that
 * penguin42 reckons with those capacitors you could get .46MWh in a standard 40ft container - now how many of those do you get on a eurotunnel train?
<shauno> yeah, and dragging anchors.  but snapping an optical cable doesn't sound quite as scary as catching a 160MW feed
<penguin42> true
<shauno> that's gotta be one hell of a breaker
<penguin42> haha yes
<Pendulum> I hope any Ubuntu UK Glasgwegians are safe and okay
<GentileBen> Glasgow is safe if you stay in the panic room.
<daftykins> what's going down up there?
<ali1234> too soon
<shauno> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-25163045
<daftykins> oh my
<daftykins> ty shauno
<diddledan> how long will it be before the conspiracy theorists spin it?
<ali1234> TOO SOON
<shauno> that's a weird one to spin.  there's much cheaper ways for the police to mess up a pub
<penguin42> but was it shot down?
<ali1234> not according to eye witnesses
<shauno> ah.  that could work.  blame it on the Celtic supporters
<daftykins> St. Andrew's Day 'n' all
<mungbean> lol crazies http://consumerist.com/2013/11/29/here-are-some-videos-of-people-who-spent-thanksgiving-fighting-over-discounted-junk/
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: welcome to Murrica
<MartijnVdS> In more serious news..  http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/29/helicopter-crashes-roof-glasgow-pub
<mungbean> received my trainvouchers after the windy day last month
<mungbean> repaidÂ£6.90 for the inconvenience
<mungbean> think i would rather have had a working train service for 2 days
<AlanBell> gosh that helicopter crash looks scary
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/393053146/powerup-30-smartphone-controlled-paper-airplane
<popey> its hit 256K USD!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> hiya
<popey> it's trending towards ~3 million
<brobostigon> hiya
<popey> so that Â£40.90 that amazon sent me as a gift a while back, I just got an email saying it was for affiliate revenue as expected
<MartijnVdS> cool
<penguin42> how does affiliate revenue work?
<popey> can you ask a more specific question?
<penguin42> what is 'affiliate revenue'
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: It's money you make when people buy things after clicking a link to (in this case) Amazon on your site
<penguin42> ahha
<GentileBen> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/25155998
<GentileBen> "Dappy kicked in face by horse"
<popey> happy to not have a clue who dappy is \o/
<mungbean> i only know because of  buzzcocks
<mungbean> maybe the horse heard about what he did those those girls
<popey> haha http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1545592703/baba-invisible-panties
<popey> worst idea *ever*
<MartijnVdS> the empress' new panties?
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cchu/palette-a-freeform-interface-that-controls-any-sof  is neat
<popey> i considered making a thing like that in the past
<MartijnVdS> that looks shiny
 * MartijnVdS is trying to get raspbian onto an SD card
<MartijnVdS> that part works
<GentileBen> popey, I'd dispute the sexiness of that thing.
<MartijnVdS> However, after installing, it doesn't install a kernel
<GentileBen> For one thing, it looks like a female jock strap.
<mungbean> ewww
<mungbean> nasty
<MartijnVdS> what, no kernel?
<mungbean> i just clicked on the invisble panties link
<DJones> mungbean: That'll teach you to click on random untrusted links, especially when they're posted by very dodgy users :)
<mungbean> i was intrigued by invisible panties
<mungbean> should have thought about it reallly
<DJones> Its called going commando isn't
<DJones> No doubt their next idea will be a version for Scotsmen to wear under their kilts
<MartijnVdS> DJones: blasphemy
<DJones> :)
<DJones> I know they're not supposed to wear anything, but 1) It gets cold in Scotland  in winter and 2) I'm not getting close enough to check anyway
<mungbean> the backdrop to this paper looks very ubuntu-esque http://speri.dept.shef.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/SPERI-Paper-No.6-The-UKs-Innovation-Deficit-and-How-to-Repair-it-PDF-1131KB.pdf
<daftykins> greetings everyone
<MartijnVdS>  greetings, earthling :)
<daftykins> mungbean: that it does!
 * penguin42 was walking around a very large busy shopping centre this afternoon (trafford centre) - noticed the phone shops were quite empty
<MooDoo> evening all
<AlanBell> evening
<MooDoo> How are you alan?  ok for me to lurk in your irc meeting?
<AlanBell> sure
<MooDoo> ta!
<MooDoo> AlanBell: #ubuntu-irc ?
<MooDoo> ignore that
<AlanBell> #ubuntu-meeting
<MooDoo> yeah i read the email properly lol
<GentileBen> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-021-PL Read the description.
<MooDoo> AlanBell: change the rule about ubuntu members and i'll run ;)
<AlanBell> I can't
<MooDoo> i'm teasing chap ;)
<GentileBen> Check out this fanless heatsink: http://www.quietpc.com/images/products/nof-cr-100a-installed-large.jpg
<penguin42> GentileBen: Nice!
<AlanBell> looks like an old style slide projector
<penguin42> bah, it's discontinued
<daftykins> guaranteeing you'll never get heat issues - mostly because you'll never plug any RAM in as it won't fit :<
<penguin42> AlanBell: Beeep
<penguin42> ah, they tweeked it a little; http://www.quietpc.com/nof-icepipe
<penguin42> bit on the pricey side
<daftykins> wow.
<daftykins> yeah i bet all that metal adds u
<daftykins> p
<GentileBen> It only supports 80W/95W CPUs it seems.
<daftykins> 'only' - i'd fear pushing a 65W'er :D
<GentileBen> I guess that rules out the FX-9590. 220W of egg-cooking power.
<GentileBen> Yes that's right - AMD released a 220W CPU which struggles to keep up with Intel's 84W CPUs.
<daftykins> oh how i wish they were decent again :(
<GentileBen> They've given up on the high-end.
<GentileBen> And the mid-range.
<GentileBen> AMD CPUs are only good for budget gaming systems.
<daftykins> i haven't bought anything of theirs since an Athlon64 for a client - i doubt i ever will again too :(
 * MartijnVdS wonders what to do with his rpi
<martsbradley> \list haskell
<GentileBen> daftykins, they fired all of their best engineers.
<MartijnVdS> martsbradley: wrong /
<daftykins> GentileBen: due to money woes? :(
<martsbradley> sorry
<MartijnVdS> np :)
<GentileBen> I don't accept your apology martsbradley.
<GentileBen> daftykins, they had cashflow problems and they ended up having to fire people just to stay financially healthy.
<GentileBen> The firing of all their best engineers + the move to automated transistor placement (which resulted in 15% bigger dies) really hurt their CPU performance.
<daftykins> =/
<GentileBen> Not to mention they spun off their fab business, and bought ATI (whose engineers were still secretly collaborating with Intel after the purchase).
<penguin42> GentileBen: I'm not sure it's just that - the FinFet stuff Intel already has puts them a good 20% ahead on what they can do per W, and everyone else is just playing catch up
<GentileBen> FinFET doesn't necessarily mean smaller sized features.
<GentileBen> A month or so ago, it was revealed the whole nanometer thing is completely arbitrary. 28nm parts aren't 28nm, and 130nm parts weren't 130nm.
<GentileBen> They just name them like that to indicate a progression.
<GentileBen> So TSMC's "new" 22nm node? Same feature size as their existing 28nm node.
<GentileBen> Their purported 16nm node also seems to have the same feature sizes...
<GentileBen> THE MORE YOU KNOW
 * GentileBen whooshes stars past penguin42
<daftykins> so it doesn't indicate an average transistor size at all?
<daftykins> not size but spacing
<GentileBen> Nope.
<GentileBen> No relationship to any physical features. It's like a model name.
<daftykins> that's really disappointing
<GentileBen> I can't find the link, but it was earth-shattering.
<penguin42> GentileBen: Oh they've been playing that game for years
<penguin42> GentileBen: I think it was fairly real until at least 90nm
<penguin42> possibly a bit smaller
<GentileBen> Apparently not.
<GentileBen> It's just a number they pluck out which is "roughly" correct.
<popey> anyone fancy playing tetrinet?
<penguin42> GentileBen: But finfets at the same feature size gets a lot in terms of power usage
<penguin42> GentileBen: At one point it was actually a feature size, and then they started doing odd things to the shapes of transistors so it didn't quite fit so they started messing about, so yeh it was a 'roughly' at about 130nm/90nm - now it's very arbitrary
<penguin42> GentileBen: But it's all quite silly now anyway because they're trying to make features on chips using light of many times the wavelength of the feature size
<GentileBen> They should just optimise the feature placement for Bitcoin mining.
<GentileBen> penguin42: http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/the-status-of-moores-law-its-complicated
<GentileBen> ^source
<GentileBen> " The term â0.35-Âµm nodeâ actually meant something. But around that same time, the link between performance and node name began to break down. "
<penguin42> shrug - their graph shows at 90nm it wasn't far off
<penguin42> GentileBen: But either way - that's why the presence of a feature like finfets is more important than the number
<brobostigon> ch4, docu on video games, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ooooh
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: missing it?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: well i'm almost done watching This Is It
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: qixl in 20 min on bbc
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep :)
<MartijnVdS> hey, Gary Whitta.. he;s on the tested.com podcast often :)
<liam_> help
<liam_> connect
<liam__> lp
<liam__> help
<liam__> gibba.nu
<daftykins> wow my mate just messaged me uncharacteristically late to say that there's a bug in Apple Time Machine that prevented his dad's lappy being backed up since several months ago
<daftykins> not all is well in Apple land ;)
<penguin42> fun
<daftykins> it claims it's backing everything up fine inside the OS, but if you go to restore, it'll be ages out of date
<shauno> did it tell him?
<daftykins> nah he only realised through doing a drive swap for his dad
<daftykins> if you were nuking the OS, followed by going to install Mavericks - it would be game over
<shauno> I manage to break it on mine quite often, but it starts nagging that it's been unable to backup
<daftykins> nah apparently even manual 'back up now' choices don't do it
<daftykins> it just lies! D:
<shauno> I keep hitting a problem with stale locks on mine - particularly when the network to the NAS is interupted
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-01
<daftykins> happy December everyone! :D
<shauno> but it gets quite naggy when that happens :/
<penguin42> daftykins: Time flies hey
<daftykins> sure does
<shauno> china need something like nasa-tv :/
<daftykins> i kinda feel bad because this is my first Christmas in my new place, so i don't own any decorations or anything
<shauno> I haven't put decorations up since I left home.  it just feels kinda phoney with no family around
<shauno> I just volunteer to work christmas each year, then suck up the overtime while playing the martyr
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> yeah doing something in the house by myself would be very weird
<shauno> seems china were due to launch a lunar lander this evening.  surprisingly difficult to find anything that says whether it launched or not
<daftykins> :o
<shauno> I had no idea they had a space station either, albiet not a permentantly manned one.  between them, and india launching a mars mission, this new space race is surprisingly quiet
<daftykins> i didn't even know anyone was doing anything
<shauno> that's what I mean.  all we ever hear about is the ISS.  which is neat and all, but the stuff no-one's talking about is quite neat too
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> ok bed time nn \o
<liam_> nubba.ls
<liam__> SSLSERVER
<liam__> SSLSERVER gibba.nu
<liam__> SSLSERVER gibba.nu 7000
<liam__> help
<mungbean> fail
<MartijnVdS> g'morning
<mungbean> hello
<mungbean> i dont think the army of a certain country should be sending me flight details of their secret misiions
<MartijnVdS> hmm, oops?
<mungbean> know anything about these guys? http://www.hostinger.co.uk/
<MartijnVdS> never heard of them
<mungbean> distrowatch have donated $400 to the linux mint project. interesting
<chalcedony> nice
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<brobostigon> ?
<penguin42> the realisation that it's already afternoon?
<bigcalm> Yes
<brobostigon> overslept?
<bigcalm> Over lived
<bigcalm> Have been up since early
<brobostigon> ah.
<diddledan> quiet in here today
<shauno> wasn't me
<diddledan> shauno: are you shur??
<diddledan> heck it's been so quiet that your mention of the chinky moon mission is still onscreen
<shauno> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgZslWEQZHY   :)
<diddledan> I like the "this way up" symbol
<diddledan> by eck that's acceleration
<penguin42> diddledan: I'd assumed that it was just the Federation
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Aerospace_Science_and_Technology_Corporation
<diddledan> penguin42: I thought that first
<shauno> we can't have a federation, US law still blocks nasa from working with china
<shauno> although given china's "fine, we'll make our own space station", I'm not sure what they think they're protecting; seems that ship's already sailed
<penguin42> so they can't work with China on ISS?
<shauno> bingo
<penguin42> wow - didn't realise that, I'd assumed since they were working with Russia then they would work with China as well
<diddledan> so much for it being "a shining light in the darkness"
<diddledan> or was that babylon5?
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station#China
<diddledan> I like that russia were "invited" after america couldn't get into space no more
<shauno> well there's quite a gap of time in the middle of that narative, the first component of the ISS was russian
<diddledan> I wonder how that conversation went: "would you like to join our historic effort to create the ISS? oh, btw, we need you to ferry our astronuts"
<diddledan> I've got to the end of the launch video but I didn't see it break down at all. are the chinese not as funny as the koreans?
<diddledan> I was hoping for a massive explosion at the least
<shauno> but it is quite awkward that russia are already working on their replacement for the ISS (OPSEK), china have the tiangong program, and the west has .. pretty much run out of money
<diddledan> who's gonna be the first to put nukes on one?
<diddledan> turn it into an orbital bombardment platform?
<penguin42> ^gonna^was ?
<shauno> I'm pretty sure there's already reactors up there, which is kinda scary
<penguin42> there are?
<moreati> shauno: nothing beyond radio isotope themal generators  (RTGs) as far as I know
<diddledan> heh, if they fall out of orbit while also melting-down. that would be "interesting"
<diddledan> how to irradiate the entire planet in one misguided endeavour
 * penguin42 must remember to lead-line his hard hat
<moreati> penguin42: fortunately lead does double duty, so you can tak out the tin foil ;)
<diddledan> lol
<penguin42> moreati: Nod!
<diddledan> I hungy
<diddledan> the thought of irradiated planet kinda makes one crave food
<diddledan> I'm not sure how the thought process goes there tho
<moreati> food that glows in the dark is easier to pick/catch, increased availability leads to increased consumption.
<shauno> and 12ft bunnies can feed a whole village
<moreati> Ergo we should irradiate all crops and livestock, increase world food production and solve the global recession
<diddledan> that sounds like a plan
<shauno> still think it's a bummer they can't all work together.  if china are going to the moon, and india are going to mars - the capability is already there.  we're not really protecting anything by refusing to share our toys anymore
<penguin42> shauno: In a way this might help them, because it might be they can get to the point of being allowed to work with things they've demonstrably already done
<diddledan> I'm not sure the chinese want a saturnV
<diddledan> I'm sure theirs is much better
<diddledan> heck it probably runs a real computer rather than a halft-of-a pocket calculator
<diddledan> half*
<shauno> I guess I worry that once they catch up, what's in it for them to work together? if they carry on with the same budget they'll just blast past us
<diddledan> shauno: cold war
<penguin42> literally
<diddledan> it's happened before, it'll happen again
<diddledan> just different parties involved
<penguin42> will that kick the US to start doing more though?
<shauno> right, but how did the cold war end?  russia couldn't afford to stay in the race
<diddledan> it might
<shauno> so it does look eerily familiar, except we're the ones struggling this time
<diddledan> as long as when the memory implanting becomes commonplace it is actually possible to "get [my] ass to mars" I'll be happy
<MartijnVdS> popey: Doctor Who-themed CaH cards: http://imgur.com/a/F25su
<shauno> diddledan: might need bigger rockets
<diddledan> shauno: that's mean :-p
<diddledan> just because I'm of the larger persuasion doesn't mean you are allowed to mention it
<diddledan> is it me, or (the CaH cards - black ones at the bottom) is the answer to each of those can easily be "anne widdecombe"? (for better or worse)
<diddledan> e.g. "the voice chip of one of the cybermen has malfunctioned. instead of saying delete is now says..."
<diddledan> and "there's a new dance on gallifrey, it's called the..."
<diddledan> that one is scary after watching strictly come dancing last year
<dogmatic69> anyone skilled in open shot video editor? looking to make a clip that is 20 seconds play for 30 seconds, eg stretch it a bit
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "it now says.. "-- "Eggs"
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "it's called the .." -- "Robot Anne Robinson"
<ali1234> dogmatic69: i know how to do that in blender...
<ali1234> but it's really difficult to explain
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTA7KI2xB-c
<ali1234> also you might be able to do it with ffmpeg/avconf with just one command
<dogmatic69> blender is good?
<ali1234> yeah, blender is very good, but it's really hard to use
<dogmatic69> ah, see its like autocad :D
<ali1234> it's like autocad, 3d studio, and after effects all rolled into one
<diddledan> oh the lolz. I just saw an email conversation in my gmail from the hantslug. the senders are listed as "Edward, James" so all we need now is for someone called "Olmos" to post and we've recreated Bill Adama
<diddledan> ali1234: it may be like each of those all mushed into one. but it's also none of them in terms of usability :-p
<diddledan> I did manage to get a smattering of use out of it years ago. but have since forgotten it all
<ali1234> after effects isn't exactly easy to use
<GentileBen> Is Blender used by the top pros, though?
<GentileBen> I remember it used to be used for amateur/easy game development back in the day.
<diddledan> GentileBen: unfortunatly it's rare
<GentileBen> Like 10 years ago.
<diddledan> GentileBen: it's got all the functionality required for a top-level production, but nobody gives it the time-of-day in industry afaict
<diddledan> their latest "open movie": http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z4C82eyhwgU
<diddledan> my favourite of their movies though has to be sintel - it actually has a really good bitter-sweet story
<diddledan> the previous to that episode 2 (it seems this llama is part of a series) is here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JOhiWY7XmoY
<diddledan> here's my favourite (sintel)though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eRsGyueVLvQ
<diddledan> they really went to town on sintel making a 15 minute masterpiece
<MartijnVdS> is sintel the weird one?
<diddledan> no that's "elephants dream" <-- note the absense of the apostrophe, that's a feature
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ah.. yes
<shauno> my head is so broke.  trying to clone a wordpress install onto localhost so I can work on some modification.  and it's so broken I can't understand how it's working on the live site
<diddledan> shauno: did you sed the database dump?
<shauno> oh it's broken before I even try to import anything
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> hmm
<shauno> I can understand why it's broken.  what I can't understand is why Live isn't broken too lol .. http://pastebin.com/zwSCVsBH
<shauno> (look for "<= This is line 4044")
<diddledan> shauno: that's on line 4120 for me
<diddledan> as part of a comment
<shauno> yeah, something's stealing chunks of files.  awkward
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> usually when I develop locally I install a fresh wordpress from .org
<shauno> I just grabbed the most recent backup, so this probably means they've got a whole stack of unusable backups
<diddledan> that's worrying
<diddledan> I've got my sites backed up onto s3
<shauno> ahhh here we go.  either wget is being broken on ftp, or one of the machines has bad timestamps
<diddledan> o_O
<shauno> most the files come back with "Remote file no newer than local file" or "Remote file is newer than local file".  but some are returning "The sizes do not match (local 36747) -- retrieving."
<shauno> which then does "REST 36747 ... done." to 'top up' the local copy with the end of the new copy
<popey> Evening all
<shauno> so wget thinks the timestamps match, but the contents don't, and assumes it's partially retrieved
<shauno> I'm not touching that one.  I'll just grab a fresh copy and let them know the backups aren't viable.
<diddledan> do they not zip their backups into a single easy-to-manage ifle?
<shauno> yes and no.  they pull it off via ftp and then zip it.  because the host is a grumpy old man who won't change anything that "works"
<diddledan> I'm not going to say it
<shauno> oh I already have
<diddledan> we're guilty of not verifying we can restore from backup, thoiugh, also :-/
<diddledan> although our backups are vmlevel rather than site-level
<diddledan> we have a very complex multi-layered drbd setup
<diddledan> it's vastly overengineered for the job while at the same time completely broken
<popey> hmm
<popey> GTA5 advertisment that it's 30 quid in Game
<popey> http://www.game.co.uk/ currently down
<popey> coincidence?
<popey> \o/ back
<diddledan> their ec2 system probably just launched a load more instances
<popey> its painfully slow
<popey> New: 29.99
<popey> Pre-owned: 37.99
<diddledan> autoscaling is awesome
<diddledan> our boss-likes need to realise that <insert cloud here, probably aws> is in fact worth the money
<diddledan> I came across ecoqloud yesterday - interesting
<diddledan> they're ec2 and s3 api-compatible
<diddledan> the loadbalancer however doesn't cost any extra
<GentileBen> I saw the most horrible thing in the Metro paper the other day.
<GentileBen> A full-paged advert for a joint McFly and Busted tour - McBusted.
<GentileBen> I haven't yet recovered.
<diddledan> yeah, my sis-in-law wants to go to that
<diddledan> my brother will probably convince her to let him go to the rugby instead
<diddledan> don't you love when spammers obviously can't use their "clicky clicky spam everyone" tool?
<diddledan> the latest, an email I received with the URL malformed
<diddledan> and no it isn't an attempt to bypass filters
<GentileBen> diddledan, it sounds like an excellent punishment option.
<GentileBen> McBusted, that is.
<diddledan> it really is idiocy involved. I've posted the content here: http://bowlhat.net/2013/12/lovespam/
<diddledan> </delay>
<diddledan> sorry about that, I was fighting my wordpress
<diddledan> GentileBen: lol
<diddledan> GentileBen: it's an excellent punishment for when someone gets McBusted doing something they shouldn't - advertisement: "if you get McBusted, get McBusted!"
<daftykins> Oh deary, took apart my mums cheap as anything laptop to do something about the temperatures - but the gap between the heatsink plate and the processor is bridged by a thick thermal pad only. The replacement arctic silver it seems doesn't bridge that gap D:
<diddledan> use some wadded paper
<diddledan> (maybe I should caveat my humour?)
<diddledan> on the plus side, the fire will keep her knees warm
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> ah it hit 100 deg and promptly powered off ;D
<diddledan> ouch
<daftykins> so we won't get that dramatic
<diddledan> that's nice and toasty
<daftykins> just means i gotta take it apart, clean off the AS5 and put the pads back
<daftykins> sure is! i'd imagine there's not enough pressure
<diddledan> really tho, who the heck builds a heat sink that doesn't touch the thing it's supposed to be sinking heat from? (albeit with a bit of paste to improve conductivity)
<daftykins> well i think the key part here was the thickness of the thermal pads
<daftykins> so it was *working* albeit not well
<daftykins> diddledan: to top it off, i had to deform the shape of the thin metal chassis to the keyboard in prying it out, as it was GLUED to the shell
<daftykins> thankfully all the keys still work
<daftykins> though it's not a very flat keyboard anymore XD
<daftykins> laptop was like Â£230 new, super simple MSI thing :D
<daftykins> fixed with 1 of 2 thermal pads, but still toasty
<daftykins> squeezing the plate onto the chips has the temp drop a few degrees ^_^
<liam_> -ChanServ- [#ubuntu-uk] Welcome to #ubuntu-uk. This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com. Use of this channel implies acceptance of the terms at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService
<daftykins> err
<daftykins> ok
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-24
<membrell_> ali: can you name me some big chains or stores where you can buy this type of things? I can check their websites just i have no clue about the big herbal brands and pharmacy brands in the uk..
<ali1234> i could but i've already checked them all
<ali1234> which means boots and holland & barrett
<membrell_> and they dont have any of these?
<ali1234> no
<membrell_> hm, thank you for your search
<membrell_> and this maybe: Swanson Ultra 100% Natural Eggshell Membrane ? or anything which contains only Natural Eggshell Membrane?
<membrell_> i need 500mg/day dose
<ali1234> no, nothing containing eggshell of any kind
<membrell_> its strange
<membrell_> i found many scientific research papers and it says its already in the canadian, usa and uk market
<membrell_> but i see its  relatively new technology maybe thats why its difficult to find
<membrell_> anyway ali1234 thank you for your help, at least you understood my issue, big thanks
<daftykins> lul
<daftykins> it's not about understanding
<membrell_> daftykins: so, its about not helping?
<daftykins> totally irrelevant for this channel yep
<daftykins> plus i'm not from England so don't know their shops anyway
<daftykins> it's just ridiculous that you would have such a plan to begin with, let alone to come on freenode and ask for help with it :P
<daftykins> ho-hum
<membrell_> ok, do you have any better idea?:)
<ali1234> go to hospital?
<daftykins> yes, go anywhere but here
<daftykins> go to your doctor
<membrell_> ali1234: I have been visiting doctors since august, MRI, ultrasound, xray, all happened...
<daftykins> do something that's actually responsible, not looking for wonder cures
<membrell_> its not wonder cures, its real science
<daftykins> haha, yeah whatever
<membrell_> if you check the links you can see yourself
<daftykins> i don't care for your links
<membrell_> so why are you questioning something without any base or knowledge just because its against of your taste?
<daftykins> nevermind, you're a waste of my time
<daftykins> goodbye
<membrell_> daftykins: sorry, i dont want to disturb you, im just looking for help to solve my issue
<membrell_> ali1234:  and this one? http://www.jamiesonvitamins.com/NEM
<daftykins> #ubuntu-uk is for the support of an *operating system*
<ali1234> wb
<ali1234> membrell_: just get some cod liver oil, it does the same thing
<membrell_> ali1234:  no, its very different
<membrell_> also its different then glucosamine sulfate and MSM and chroinditin, because its doing something else
<membrell_> and this is very natural product
<ali1234> cod liver oil is natural
<ali1234> and glucosamine comes from shellfish
<membrell_> its true
<membrell_> http://www.wholefoodsmagazine.com/news/breaking-news/eggshell-membrane-provides-joint-relief-clinical-trial853453
<membrell_> this is a clinical trial made in november, 2014
<membrell_> in germany
<membrell_> they just accepted it a few weeks ago
<membrell_> and maybe (maybe) this is the solution: http://www.reddremedies.com/Nerve-Shield.html or this: http://www.reddremedies.com/Joint-Health-Original-30.html I just have to find it where to buy in london, but it seems to be a mission impossible
<membrell_> thank you for your help guys
<membrell_> bye for now
<membrell_> i wish you good health:) thanks ali1234  for your searches
<membrell_> bye
<mapps> HOMELAND TIME
<mapps> :)
<Anastasius> Is it?
<mapps> yes
<mapps> :D
<mapps> you dont watch it?
<Anastasius> I actually haven't seen it. Heard it was good, though.
<mapps> ya tis dope
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> yo
<DJones> Ugh, I hate seeing accidents on the way to work, even worse when its a child hit by a car
<popey> â¹
<MooDoo> DJones: omg :(
<MooDoo> DJones: poor thing :(
<DJones> Yeah, didn't look good, I'm assuming it was a child, covered completely in coats, police & ambulance nowhere in sight yet and local hospital is only about 5 minutes away
<MooDoo> fingers crossed it wasn't too serious, as being hit by a car can be :L(
<MooDoo> :(
<DJones> Very much crossed, but the fact that they were completely covered including the face & head makes me think its more serious
<MooDoo> i'm going with the, to keep them warm on this very cold day approach!
<MooDoo> thinking nice thoughts
<DJones> Must have only happened a couple of minutes before I got there, I think the kids mother had just come running to the accident
<MooDoo> :( it was bloomin icy this morning, had to scrape my car.
<DJones> No ice here yet, but still cold enough to start the cars before going to work to warm them up
<MooDoo> it's warming up here slowely...just cold
 * popey did the dutiful husband thing and went out to start wifeys car
<popey> then quickly came back in
<DJones> Its always the same, the husband is the one that has to go out and start the cars, even when they're working from home & still dressed for bed
<popey> â»
<popey> hope mine is defrosted by the time I use it this afternoon
<foobarry> ford heated windscreen ftw
<foobarry> although wifey takes to kids to school on foot
<zmoylan-pi> better for them
<popey> would take us about 1 hour to walk to school.
<MooDoo> ouch
<popey> with the amount they have to carry on a monday morning, not happening
<foobarry> evernote was using 1.6gb in 2 tabs :S
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the school bag i carried that weighed a tonne.  so much nicer when we got lockers in school to store the heavy books there and only carry them home when needed
<foobarry> yeah, used to have a fear of ever forgetting the right book so i would take every textbook i had every day
<foobarry> enough to give an 11yr old scoliosis
<zmoylan-pi> and while i like ereaders and ebooks i don't think that using them as reference works is as fast as using proper paper book
<foobarry> are there good pdf annotators for android?
<zmoylan-pi> was gaming on saturday and while we all have tablets and the books in pdfs we all carry the paper books to the game
<popey> "gaming"?
<popey> like D&D? â»
<zmoylan-pi> well except me, my bag is full of nerf instead of books :-)
<foobarry> wargaming, fantasy?
<zmoylan-pi> ad&d, played first d&d 5 over the weekend.  first level character again... 12 hit points.  so fragile... :-) https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/536325948665503744/photo/1
<foobarry> is it all book based or you have characters you move around too
<DJones> MooDoo: Looks like the crossed fingers worked, just seen a news report saying na teenager & nine year old girl weren't seriously hurt
<popey> phew
<zmoylan-pi> click the link and you'll see we use table top minatures too.  our dm has massive collection of minatures
<foobarry> ah, you need some terrain from http://www.amera.co.uk/product.php?range=f
<MooDoo> DJones: great news.
<zmoylan-pi> we just draw on the grid map with white board markers.  have seen terrain used and we have a few bits that we sometimes use.  but markers is enough
<foobarry>  but less fun
<foobarry> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> well the scenery would end up in the way when arguments over rules break out and the nerf comes into play so we got fun covered too :-)
<foobarry> you might probably enjoy reading achtung schweinehund
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Celebrate Your Unique Talent Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait how are you this fine day!
<JamesTait> MooDoo, I'm feeling pretty rubbish this morning, tbh.
<foobarry> JamesTait has a unique talent for commitment to the daily thing
<JamesTait> foobarry, I'm uniquiely irritating. ;)
<foobarry> mere mortals would have put a call on teh mailing list for maintainers long ago
<directhex> for the curious, 2 pieces of microsoft's MIT-licensed .net have been injected into mono now - the parallel LINQ implementation, and their RegEx implementation
<awilkins> Is Mono GPL or BSD-style?
 * awilkins answers own question
<foobarry> is it easier at this point to relicence mono
<awilkins> Tools - GPL ; Runtime - LGPL ; Class libraries - X11
<awilkins> AFAIK you still need Mono's tools and runtime
<awilkins> Just the class libraries won't run without them
<awilkins> Only really a concern if you intend to embed the runtime in something (from a commercial licensing perspective)
<awilkins> For which Xamarin will happily flog you a commercial license
<foobarry> is REST API have global standards, or is a per app implementation?
<davmor2> czajkowski: I hope you aren't just sending random strangers to my naughtstep
<diplo> foobarry, I don't believe they have standards, best practises. SOAP is more standardised as far as I can make out
 * foobarry is poking in the dark
<diplo> foobarry,
<diplo> http://spf13.com/post/soap-vs-rest
<diplo> I've read a couple of posts like that, but all the suppliers we seem to interact with are using SOAP
<TwistedLucidity> SOAP is evil
 * TwistedLucidity uses SOAP
<diplo> It is :)
<TwistedLucidity> It's even more evil when clients and servers won't talk, despite them using the same libraries! Seems they can't correctly interpret their own WSDLs.
<diplo> Biggest issue I've had is with hosts blocking me access to the wsdl and the company supplying it not having it up to date
<diplo> IT works though, 95% of the time
<TwistedLucidity> We used to have issues like that, we now generate the WSDL and the proxies with each build. Makes life much easier.
<davmor2> JamesTait: \o/ I celebrate my ability to break stuff
<JamesTait> davmor2, is that unique, though? :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: to the level that I break stuff :)
<zmoylan-pi>  most people aren't proud of it ;-)
<daftykins> mornin'
<daftykins> aww yes got there just in the remaining minute
<Azelphur> Anyone here smart with fonts? I've got a font in conky and I'm trying to draw the same font in gimp at the same size, but they seem to use completely different sizing, wonder if anyone can help me figure that out.
<Azelphur> I found some documentation online that claims conky uses "size of the font in pixels" but gimp font size px 8 is more like conkys size 15
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it's when you turn it into a plus like hmmm testing software for example :)
<ujjain> is the kindle hdx 7,8 at 99pound worth it? http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CYR6UTM/
<ujjain> people here have it? how horrible is it not to have access to the google play store?
<foobarry> i had no idea you couldn't access play store
<daftykins> maybe you can mod it on there :D
<brobostigon> yep it uses amazons app store insted.
<brobostigon> that is possible, yes daftykins
<zmoylan-pi> is amazons store lacking much?  i get half my apps on android tablet from f-droid these days but i'm an unusual case
<daftykins> ujjain: probably quite limiting on app count
<ujjain> I hear about getting Google things on Amazon tablets being very messy, I googled a bit.
<ujjain> e.g. first search, cloudmagic e-mail, not in amazon store
<daftykins> ujjain: just get a samsung galaxy tab 4 or something
<daftykins> here's the rule i live by for the most part... buy something for what it *is* capable of, not for what you think it might be able to do
<ujjain> well, I don't like the Samsung (bastardized) version of Android, but it'd probably be easier to install an own one yes.
<brobostigon> get a nexus, problem solved.
<zmoylan-pi> depends on what you want to use tablet for
<brobostigon> you can get cyanogenmod on many amazon tablets, and then throw gapps on it.
<zmoylan-pi> for me a card slot AND 7 hour + battery life were 2 most important things
<brobostigon> i agree, touchwiz sucks donkeys balls.
<ujjain> Samsung specs seem less than impressive as well. Nexus seems old. Nexus 9 expensive.
<ujjain> Maybe I'll wait until my Tesco points convert and get a Huddle2 like popey
<brobostigon> get a samsung, stick CM on it, problem solved.
<zmoylan-pi> does seem like you can't go wrong with the hudl2.  at that price especially :-)
<brobostigon> i still have my reservations about tesco lack of ability to update android.
<daftykins> i wonder, is cyanogenmod available for the hudl2? :D
<brobostigon> i know it is, for the first hidl.
<directhex> daftykins: wise advice.
 * daftykins tips his hat
<brobostigon> hudl*
<awilkins> How about those Asus transformerpads?
<awilkins> Does the keyboard still work
<zmoylan-pi> i was really interested in those transformer pads till they changed the connector between version 1 and 2.  seems like they could have made a connector design that would last more than 1 generation
<brobostigon> yes, microusb.
<foobarry> ujjain: hudl2 is intel processor
<foobarry> if you mind about that kind of thing
<ujjain> what is the difference between intel vs arm? less support in custom firmware or?
<foobarry> i was thinking heat and battery life
<zmoylan-pi> and there's also the kickstarted campaign for the raspitab https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2019641820/raspitab-the-first-tablet-with-raspberry-pi-inside
<zmoylan-pi> for less locked down os
<daftykins> oh deary me.
<ujjain> ah ok, right. I never thought of that, I'll definitely read about that.
<foobarry> when i played with androidx86 then some apps didn't work , but that must now be fixed noawadays
<zmoylan-pi> i think it requires the developer compile a version for x86 doesn't it?
<foobarry> i think so
<foobarry> i guess thats more common now
<zmoylan-pi> so if they didn't or can't be bothered too you're left stuck
<intrbiz> unless there was some binary translation layer
<zmoylan-pi> coz java is already a speedy beast...
<intrbiz> a JIT in theory can beat native, as it can make use of optimisation at runtime that a compiler might not be aware of
<zmoylan-pi> 'theory' :-)
<intrbiz> Java has a warm up time, due to it being a JIT
<intrbiz> but it will easily out perform things like: Python, Perl, Ruby
<intrbiz> and you get the advantages of a safe, GCed language over C / C++
<intrbiz> plus, Android doesn't use the Java byte code
<ujjain> Yeah, I hear Java is very very fast, which I do sometimes find hard to believe since all the desktop Java apps seem slowish even after a slow startup
<intrbiz> Dalvik has a completely different byte code and a totally different virtual CPU arcitecture, Dalvik being a register machine and Java a stack machine
<daftykins> i see unity still has single pixel wide activation areas for window / sidebar resizes
<daftykins> how has this never been rectified O_O
<intrbiz> ujjain: I mainly do server side Java stuff, Java's GUI stuff is frankly shit
<ujjain> Yeah.
<ujjain> But Java is still hard compared to scripting languages to program in, right?
<zmoylan-pi> they petitioned for half pixel activation areas but couldn't sort the technical problems :-p
<ujjain> are there even many Java frameworks that would offer you features like verifyEmailAddress?
<intrbiz> ujjain: Swing is horrid both to look at and use
<daftykins> i believe android 5.0 moves to using ART as default anyway, which 'compiles' the app at install time and runs it from that form instead of the standard way
<intrbiz> ujjain: depends what you call hard and what your problem domain is
<intrbiz> daftykins: yes, ART uses Ahead Of Time compilation rather than Just In Time, interestingly the earlier Android (2.1 and 2.2) releases didn't have a JIT at all
<ujjain> I have no idea, I sometimes want to spend free time at work to learn interesting stuff, but it gets a bit boring without a good goal.
<ujjain> ah Swing, never knew that was the name, very typical Java interface yeah. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Gui-widgets.png - Even without the logo.
<ujjain> I haver some issues with Android L on my Nexus 5, battery life seems to have actually gotten even a little worse.
<ujjain> I suspect having used a 2amps charger might have damaged my Nexus 5 battery
<intrbiz> yes, bizarely, the 'Metal' look and feel is intentional, they wanted Java apps to look consistent across platforms
<daftykins> devices should only take what power they want, no more
<intrbiz> just a shame they didn't hire a designer
<daftykins> doing android device upgrades without a factory reset is pretty pointless anyway
<intrbiz> I've used SWT and QT before when I wanted a sane GUI
<daftykins> it's like upgrading OS on your computer ;)
<intrbiz> ujjain: most phones these day use a 2A charger, my S4 certainly does
<awilkins> daftykins, alt-middleclick-drag is an easier way to resize windows in Unity
<intrbiz> plus the LI-ion charge chip will charge the battery at the correct current regardless of the USB supply
<daftykins> awilkins: ah interesting - kind of defeats the purpose to ruin the standard methods of operation though
<awilkins> I did a wipe-and-factory-image of Android L on my Nexus 4 and 7 (2012) ; I'm quite pleased with the improvement in battery life
<awilkins> And the new OS is spiffy, of course
<daftykins> looks really ugly to me :(
<ujjain> intrbiz, ah ok, then no worries on using a 2amp charger.
<awilkins> Been using the 2A charger for my N7 on my N4 for ages
<ujjain> spiffy hihi, I love English people using their language
<awilkins> No damage that I've noticed
<ujjain> I might have to consider doing a wipe-and-factory, might help.
<ujjain> but the screen is unresponsive for like 2 seconds in the new battery saver mode, it seems a bit strange.
<daftykins> it will do, unless you let Google keep backups
<daftykins> that's kind of like restoring a bad /home to me
<awilkins> I keep /home on a separate partition
<awilkins> So I tend to reinstall / move home folder / move things back that I need to keeo
<awilkins> keep
<ujjain> I let Google keep back-ups and store all my private data, but it feels these days there are so many custom configurations, then I guess I'll just postpone the formatting, next time will definitely get a phone with proper battery.
<awilkins> But I've upgraded the last 2 releases
<daftykins> that doesn't affect restoring it post upgrade potentially bringing in issues
<awilkins> No 1 Unity thing that annoys me : when you select an app icon from the dash, wanting to see it's window
<awilkins> And a *tiny* sliver of it's Window is on this workspace
<awilkins> It doesn't move
<awilkins> Should put the workspace with the centre of the window on, not the closest workspace with a teeny sliver of window on it
<daftykins> heh
<popey> \o/ hudl
<popey> I dont see any ports to the hudl2
<Laney> blerg, double council taxing
<MooDoo> Laney: oh dear
<popey> 14:25:57 < foobarry> when i played with androidx86 then some apps didn't work , but that must now be fixed noawadays
<popey> still a problem
<popey> there was a brand new game out recently, crashed on start on hudl2
<popey> i reported it as broken on Google play, gave it 1 star, they pushed out an update with two lines "* bug fixes" and "* Add x86 build"
<popey> now it works â»
<ujjain> Can you manage AWS instances with Puppet?
<ujjain> I want to improve my skills, everywhere I read puppet and Amazon AWS
<foobarry> popey: which game?
<popey> some new thing from the angry birds people
<popey> a plane thing
<popey> really hard
<awilkins> Angry Planes?
<ujjain> haha
<awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJRAlUS1Byo
<popey>  its called "RETRY"
<daftykins> Branston \o/ https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l9zroz8ijidgs5n/AADGYRD9OmFO4Bd7Ewn9zgg0a?dl=0
<zmoylan-pi> i'll stick with a crisp sammich thanks.  preferably tayto the inventor of the cheese and onion flavoured crisp :-)
<daftykins> :(
<zmoylan-pi> actually might make some of those for tea...
<foobarry> somebody in the cubicle next to me did a poo and didn't flush :@
<foobarry> i wonder who these animals are, and what they do at home
<zmoylan-pi> the smart ones just go in the corner, the not so smart ones...
<daftykins> eww
<ali1234> popey: does indicator-application work on unity 8?
<awilkins> Why are people such grebs in office toilets?
<zmoylan-pi> because they don't have to clean it
<awilkins> If I leave a streak I deploy the brush
<awilkins> We had the guy who would pick his nose and stick the bogies to the wall at eyeline height above the urinals
<zmoylan-pi> i try to leave it as i found it, with extra computer mags for reading if anything :-)
<awilkins> He didn't come in for a while, because it stopped
<awilkins> Then bogy service resumed
<foobarry> he went to work for us for a while
<foobarry> bogey boy
<foobarry> i also put up a lord kitchener poster "YOU! wash your hands!"
<foobarry> because there was one jerk who never did
<zmoylan-pi> though by now you'd think they'd have invented a decent door handle for the inside of bathrooms so that the last thing you touch with your clean hands on leaving is the door handle also used by non hand washing barbarians
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/ijFIU1q.png
<daftykins> sure - the top and bottom half :D
<intrbiz> interestingly hospitals used to use copper door knobs, copper is antimicrobial
<zmoylan-pi> the silver and gold ones probably didn't last long :-)
<foobarry> TIL
<foobarry> bacteria lives for shorter time on copper?
<zmoylan-pi> but once polyester carpets were installed the copper door knobs would be horrible to use :-)
<foobarry> why?
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_properties_of_copper
<intrbiz> its due to the oligodynamic effect
<intrbiz> silver is also good
<intrbiz> aluminium and stainless less so
<foobarry> anyone godo with xml and javascript?
<intrbiz> foobarry: what are you attempting to do?
<foobarry> i want to open blah.xml, read in 2 variables, and write one variable now, and one later on in the file. i can do it in one hit, but do variables get thrown away away you close the /script tag?
<foobarry> http://pastie.org/private/shyjunc664id83jwmc3pq
<foobarry> works for one section
<foobarry> but i want NODES output and CORES at different places.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> probabyl completely simple to someone who has spent >1hr on javascript
<ali1234> whaaat
<awilkins> Dunno if variables get thrown away when you close the script tag
<awilkins> Javascript is full of dirty globalness
<ali1234> variables don't get thrown away when you close the script tag but i am 99% sure you are doing it wrong
<foobarry> open to suggestions. i hacked down a script that had a loop in it
<foobarry> i am also 99% sure too
<ali1234> well first of all use jquery
<awilkins> Hmm
<awilkins> For this one thing?
<ali1234> yes
<awilkins> Use jquery when you get to the THIRD thing that jquery makes easier
<foobarry> all i wanna do is simply echo some stuff from xml file on screen at various places
<awilkins> Ah, well.
<awilkins> Write the stuff with CSS classes
<awilkins> Use CSS to put them various places
<ali1234> yes, second of all, use bootstrap
<foobarry> hwo?
<foobarry> how?
<awilkins> Foolish notions like writing a document that looks like what you want to appear on the screen are OUTDATED and OBSOLETE
<ali1234> thirdly, don't use document.write, ever, ever, ever
<ali1234> write the static html with whatever layout you want, and then insert the data into the DOM at the end
<ali1234> do this using jquery
<ali1234> theme it up with bootstrap
<foobarry> do u have a simple example please?
<ali1234> i have a really complicated one...
<intrbiz> foobarry: do you have a sample of the XML ?
<foobarry> yes
<intrbiz> you can paste bin it
<foobarry> http://pastie.org/private/xxchvinrxint76dcxxkr8a
<intrbiz> nodes.xml is on a server right?
<foobarry> yep
<ali1234> that isn't a valid XML file you know
<foobarry> probably...which?
<ali1234> the first one
<foobarry> that can be changed. the secodn one can't as its the output from rest api
<intrbiz> foobarry: usually browsers don't let you do xmlhttprequests to files
<intrbiz> foobarry: you might find using jquery makes your life easier
<foobarry> certainly, if i find some good docs i'll do it
<intrbiz> foobarry: something like $(xmlresponse).find('free > nodes').text() should do the trick
<intrbiz> and for the second $(xmlresponse).find('issues').attr('total_count')
<foobarry> thanks, i'll check that out
<ali1234> http://jsbin.com/xipoduyomo/2/edit?html,css,js,output
<ali1234> smething like this
<foobarry> thanks
<foobarry> will take a look
<intrbiz> this works for me: http://pastebin.com/Z2xR33FL
<foobarry> i am complete noob with this stuff, obviously i'm finding there's no shortcut
<ali1234> yeah that's pretty much what i've got
<intrbiz> or both of them together: http://pastebin.com/KxrtXfB0
<intrbiz> foobarry: obviously you can load the XML doc via AJAX or however you need to
<foobarry> thanks, just trying that now
<foobarry> really appreciate the help guys
<foobarry> that will work nicely with the page i am making :D
<ali1234> foobarry: is the nodes.xml on the same server? cos if not the next problem you will have is getting cross-domain requests to work
<ali1234> if it is on the same server this should now work: http://jsbin.com/xipoduyomo/2/edit?html,js,output
<daftykins> damn, just missed the black friday deal on a Crucial MX100 256GB SSD for Â£60
<zmoylan-pi> i thought black friday was the coming friday?
<daftykins> yeah, been deals since before the weekend though
<daftykins> this is amazon UK
<zmoylan-pi> ah, 256gb.  make a chromebook almost useful if it can access those files easily
<daftykins> don't think you can put standard SATA drives in chromebooks
<daftykins> but yeah, this comes to my earlier statement that you shouldn't try to polish a turd of a device, just buy something right the first time ;)
<zmoylan-pi> whoops read that as 256gb sd, not ssd
<diddledan> quiet in here tonight
<zmoylan-pi> tis
<zmoylan-pi> time to grab a shower and then to bed
<popey> shhh
<diddledan> yeah. sleep sounds like a plan
<zmoylan-pi> yup 4 hours of sleep then lie awake till morning... :-/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-25
<ging__> what's the quickest way to lookup which package provides a command?
<ali1234> dpkg -S /path/to/file
<ali1234> if you don't know where the file for the command is oyu can use which to find it eg: dpkg -S `which ls`
<ali1234> if you don't have the command installed, sometimes just attempting to run it will tell you which package you need to install
 * m0nkey_ pokes diddledan 
<m0nkey_> OK, dumb question. How'd I mount a NTFS volume at log on, without adding it to fstab?
<m0nkey_> I know it has something to do with fuse.
<m0nkey_> nvm.. think I just found my answer
<daftykins> what's wrong with fstab :(
<m0nkey_> Don't want the mount to be system wide
<m0nkey_> looks like udisks does what i want
<m0nkey_> udiskctl did it
<m0nkey_> brb. testing
<m0nkey_> beautiful, that worked
<daftykins> zero config?
<m0nkey_> Not quite
<m0nkey_> Added /usr/bin/udisksctl mount -b /dev/sdb1 to my start-up applications
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> neat :>
<daftykins> nn \o
<mapps> morning
<mapps> ??
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<mjayk> morning diplo
<MooDoo> howdy diplo mjayk
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Shopping Reminder Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> JamesTait: what does one do on this day?
<zmoylan-pi> one puts on protective body armour and begins christmas shopping i think
<JamesTait> bigcalm, reflect on the fact that one now has less than a month to complete one's Christmas shopping.
<zmoylan-pi> shops on sunday were jammers compared to usual
 * Laney has the week off next week \o/
<Laney> mid week Christmas shopping shall be done
<bigcalm> Oh bother
<bigcalm> We're off to Liverpool for the weekend. I expect it to bussier than usual
<zmoylan-pi> an outbreak of busses is the worst... :-p
<foobarry> irl shops sucks
<foobarry> or maybe just people do
<feisar> Hi All, is there anyway to get the Ubuntu desktop to give me a graphical notification of a degraded array (/proc/mdstat) ?
<foobarry> feisar http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=141768
<foobarry> i get it to email me though
<diplo> Hows your intranet thing looking foobarry ?
<feisar> thanks, we're deploying a load of hi spec desktops for scientists so notifying them from the desktop is ideally what I want
<davmor2> JamesTait: need milk, and there is my shopping reminder for the day ;)
<foobarry> diplo: looking good, although w3schools gave me some bad advice which i rectified last night with assistance from guys in here last night
<foobarry> its a friday afternoon job i reckon , as i have operational things to do this week :(
<foobarry> main thing atm is getting useful data into my dashboard
<foobarry> i'm such a noob at "new web", static html + css with a little php is my limit
<bashrc> not much of a web developer myself, but it might be good to learn
<foobarry> grrrrr some evil scumbag put a hosts.allow in addition to iptables
<foobarry> took me couple of hours to realise that was the issue
<diplo> Just found the url in my history foobarry, looks good!
<foobarry> heh, i moved to a different server, might be old/broken stuff on that box
<diplo> :) Looked better than the last time i'd seen it
<foobarry> thx
<awilkins> Is there a Spotify lens?
<Ryvius> Help how do I get acpi_toshiba installed?
<daftykins> "modprobe acpi_toshiba" ?
<davmor2> awilkins: would you like to be a bit more specific? I think someone wrote one for the desktop but I'm not sure it is official or maintained and it in a ppa
<awilkins> davmor2, Yeah, just wondered if there was a well supported one
<daftykins> !info toshset
<awilkins> Not really a problem
<lubotu3`> toshset (source: toshset): Access much of the Toshiba laptop hardware interface. In component main, is optional. Version 1.76-4 (utopic), package size 60 kB, installed size 237 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<davmor2> awilkins: if you mean in unity 8 then not that I know to but then I haven't really looked either
<daftykins> hey people! http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DVLWQMU/
<daftykins> 'allo 'allo on DVD!
<awilkins> It doesn't age well
<awilkins> I remember really liking it as a kid
<bashrc> I remember being vaguely annoyed by it as a kid
<Ryvius> daftykins: It says it is not found
<daftykins> Ryvius: ok. so what's the reason for this exactly?
<Ryvius> I'm trying to get the Fn buttons for backlight adjustment working
<Ryvius> And I don't have any of the toshiba stuff installed appearantly
<daftykins> hrmm, tried all the usual backlight=vendor kernel parameter stuff?
<foobarry> i remember having saucy feelings about the girls on it as a kid
<Ryvius> I feel like I have. Now I'm trying that acpi_toshiba thing, but I don't know where to add it
<foobarry> it was a quite good programme but degenerated into complete farce everntually
<daftykins> Ryvius: did you google for ubuntu + your exact laptop model?
<foobarry> obv it was designed as panto but turned into hi-de-hi
<daftykins> ugh yet another kernel update for 10.04
<Ryvius> daftykins: Yes that's where I found the acpi_toshiba thing, but no guide on how to add it, other than a manpage for BSD
<daftykins> !find acpi_toshiba
<lubotu3`> File acpi_toshiba found in freebsd-manpages
<daftykins> wat
<daftykins> Ryvius: 14.04 or 14.10? tried installing the above 'toshset' just in case that does anything?
<foobarry> 10.04 is EOL isn't it?
<daftykins> obviously i'm totally guessing here though
<daftykins> foobarry: not on server, no
<daftykins> good until April
<foobarry> does server in this context mean only certain packages are updated still
<foobarry> or it uses different repos
<foobarry> to the desktop edition
<daftykins> i don't know how they handled the split originally
<daftykins> !lucid
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid Lynx) was the twelfth release of Ubuntu.  Desktop support ended May 9 2013. Server support continues. See http://ubottu.com/y/lucid for more details.
<Ryvius> daftykins: 14.10, and already have toshset installed, though it cant run since it misses the toshiba kernel stuff
<daftykins> Ryvius: hmm, i'll be at a proper computer in a short while to see if i can't find anything more useful but i think this one is beyond me for sure. what's the model?
<Ryvius> SatellitePro L300-1CZ
<Ryvius> I will be gone for 15 minutes now
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Revell-Mini-Quadcopter-Looping-Function/dp/B00LBRQDZC/ref=lp_5246809031_1_18?s=kids&ie=UTF8&qid=1416919194&sr=1-18
<foobarry> worth it?
<bigcalm> It's tiny
<bigcalm> For a bit of fun, might be expensive for a stocking filler
<bigcalm> That said, I hope somebody gets me one for xmas
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> they have about 11hrs left
<bigcalm> I'm sure I'll survive
<Ryvius> Okay back
<davmor2> bigcalm: now you've seen it you won't :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: you going to the LUG this week?
<bigcalm> davmor2: you know Amo is back...
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: That wee bugger is 3D printed!
<TwistedLucidity> I don't think I have ever seen that in a commercial product before. Well, not so obvious at ant rate.
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm hoping too but it depends how crazy today and tomorrow are hence not putting my name down yet :)
<bigcalm> Okay
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: how do u know its 3d printed?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I looked at it. You can see the lines from the layers being laid down. Or are those just artefacts.
<bigcalm> Might just be a poor cast
<bigcalm> Nope, that does look 3d printed
<foobarry> see what u mean
<foobarry> which is funny because revell have access to injection moulding
<TwistedLucidity> Making the dies is costly, maybe this is an experiment?
<bigcalm> Might just be a prototype
<TwistedLucidity> Or that
<foobarry> it may also be impractical to mould
<foobarry> http://www.history-now.net/2014/10/20-amazing-historical-pictures.html
<foobarry> some amaznig pics
<daftykins> Ryvius: you'd seen this one presumably? http://askubuntu.com/questions/316856/toshiba-satellite-l300-xubuntu-12-04-no-brightness-control
<daftykins> doh
<daftykins> link of death
<foobarry> is there an elegant way to combine 2 awk commands? cat short.xml | awk -F'[<|>]' '{print $4}' | awk -F'"' '{print $2}'
<m0nkey_> Google it? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12167250/combine-multiple-awk-commands
<bujji> hello popey
<bujji> i have a problem with hard disk
<bujji> please solve
<diplo> !ask
<lubotu3`> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<diplo> I believe popey is on a plane back from Turkey :)
<bujji> okey
<bujji> my external hard disk password blocked because of multiple attempts..how can i recover it,that is wd external hard disk...please help me on this problem
<daftykins> WD encryption? hrmm
<bujji> i think so
<daftykins> bbl
<bujji> bbl?
<daftykins> i'll be back later.
<bujji> okey
<bigcalm> Big bubbly Lemmings
<bujji> daftykins are you there
<diplo> bujji, I wouldn't just select one person, if someone can help they'll answer
<diplo> You've not mentioned any model numbers or anything you've tried so far
<bujji> okey diplo..thanks
<diplo> I've had a quick google and it seems for certain models there may be hacks
<diplo> But they're quite in depth, have you tried on the WD forums as well ?
<bujji> i tried that.
<bujji> its hard
<diplo> OK, well all I'm saying is it's not a linux specific issue, what model WD device is it ?
<bujji> yes...model :WDBAAA3200ABK
<TwistedLucidity> My guess is that WD will have a way to unblock. But the device might need to have been registered and this may well cost Â£Â£Â£
<foobarry> i have a cheeky favour to ask if ali1234 is around :-$
<bujji> i hope you people find a solution for this
<diplo> http://community.wd.com/t5/WD-Portable-Drives/WD-MY-PASSPORT-LOCKED-I-NEVER-SET-THE-PASSWORD/td-p/197496
<diplo> Sounds like there isn't any way round it apart from suggestions in that post
<diplo> It appears they store the pass on the device and they can become corrupt
<mapps> hi all
<diplo> bujji, this isn't a linux issue.. it's a WD issue by the looks of things
<TwistedLucidity> bujji: You need to contact WD
<bujji> ofcourse
<bujji> i  expect you people find a solution for this
<bujji> exactly i refered that community
<diplo> Unless you're willing to go through some very in depth hacking of the device you are basically out of luck it seems
<TwistedLucidity> bujji: You expect us to find a solution?
<TwistedLucidity> What?
<diplo> bah :D
<diplo> He left, I give up
<TwistedLucidity> Oh I have no doubt I could find a way into that drive. But Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£
<diplo> Probably, but he didn't sound very umm willing ?
<diplo> :)
 * TwistedLucidity would sub-contract the job to a crypto-guru for Â£Â£Â£ and keep $$ for themselves
<zmoylan-pi> and if it's locked by wd software isn't it likely that the software is mac/windows?
<TwistedLucidity> Firmware
<TwistedLucidity> I think...
<TwistedLucidity> If I want to do something like that, I buy a boring HDD and use EncryptFS, TrueCrypt, whatever
<TwistedLucidity> Not some undocumented POS from the OEM
<bujji> i am back..sorry for the disconnection
<bujji> hey diplo are you there
<TwistedLucidity> bujji: You expect us to find a solution?
<bujji> i am expecting find a way to sslove the problem
<bujji> solve*
<TwistedLucidity> You've been told the solution
<bujji> me ?
<TwistedLucidity> Yes, contact WD, hire someone to break into
<TwistedLucidity> Or try the ideas in diplo's link
<bujji> at the first i refer that link before i came here
<TwistedLucidity> So....you tried those?
<bujji> yes. I have no solution
<TwistedLucidity> Call WD support
<TwistedLucidity> This isn't a Linux or Ubuntu problem, this is a WD problem
<TwistedLucidity> You /might/ be able to hire a disc recover specialist to decrypt the drive, but it won't be cheap
<foobarry> don't reckon
<foobarry> if its encrypted then surely its only accessible with the encryption key
<bujji> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flom4k7lPUo
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I was thinking they could possibly by-pass the firmware and brute force. Like I said, not cheap
<TwistedLucidity> bujji: The freezer trick won't help with encrypted data
<bujji> okey
<bujji> its really a challenge for me..
<TwistedLucidity> The data is *encrypted*. If you don't have the password you need to call WD support and speak to them. *OR* you have to pay someone to break the encryption.
<TwistedLucidity> I'll repeat - this is not a Linux or Ubuntu problem.
<bujji> thank you..
<TwistedLucidity> bujji: Is the data important or do you just want to be able to use the drive again?
<bujji> is there any way to contact them??
<bujji> yes important..
<TwistedLucidity> Do you have back-ups?
<bujji> i thinkthere is a way to format
<bujji> no (
<TwistedLucidity> OK. Then call WD Support and speak with them
<TwistedLucidity> Check their website to find the correct number for where you live
<bujji> how can i find that to get the support like chat or direct contact
<TwistedLucidity> Look on their website
<bujji> okey ..thank you for your time to reply.
<daftykins> i think i would agree with the above
<bujji> okey bye..twistedlucidity
<TwistedLucidity> BYe
<TwistedLucidity> Heh, and now I find the answer. Well, almost
<TwistedLucidity> http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/44730/how-secure-is-wd-mypassport-lock
<daftykins> best not to try and use such devices other than they're intended anyway though, really
<TwistedLucidity> Aye. My guess is that if anything can be done it needs to go back to WD with a suitable amount of Â£Â£Â£
<TwistedLucidity> Also a good object lesson in having multiple back-ups!
<daftykins> oh come to think of it, that's that indian fellow again most likely
<daftykins> so no wonder we didn't get the full story from the beginning
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: ?
<daftykins> yeah, user from india
<daftykins> well we didn't get any info on where the disk came from, whether it was used with Windows before
<ging__> nickserv ghost ging jungle
<ging__> ooops
<TwistedLucidity> Oh dear
<zmoylan-pi> we promise not to look :-)
<ging__> i think it's expired anyway and someone else has taken it
<TwistedLucidity> If forgot my password a while back. Thank goodness it's stored in plain text on the drive!
 * TwistedLucidity facepalms
<zmoylan-pi> i have them written down in personal code in safe place
<ging> oh it did work
<ging> but i can't figure out how to change the password
<daftykins> better to ask in freenode
<ging> done
<ging> now i just need to talk a bit of mindless rubbish so the whole thing goes off the screen
<daftykins> or create a new pass ;)
<ging> i did
<ging> but people can still see my fail
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> status windows for all commands, sir
<bigcalm> And the channel is publicly logged :)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> to bash.org!
<Myrtti> I saw only nickserv ghost ging ******
<Myrtti> oh  man, that joke is so old.
<Myrtti> I'm groaning at myself
<daftykins> it was pretty terrible the first time too
 * bigcalm giggles at Myrtti
<davmor2> Myrtti: oh look you typed in you password mine is hunter2
<davmor2> ging: they just need to look at user to know you fail.theginger.net
<ging> that is why i only use trivial passwords on irc as it's all unencrypted
<ging> and the big risk of typing it into a channel
<daftykins> not if you SASL auth like a good sir
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> there's some nice stuff coming up on Amazon UK's black friday lightning deals
<daftykins> pair of Netgear 500Mbps powerline adapters
<daftykins> sadly i missed the 512GB crucial MX100 SSD that went for Â£120 :(
<daftykins> appears to be a 16-port gigabit switch from linksys coming up too
<ali1234> foobarry?
<daftykins> in 24 minutes
<DJones> daftykins: I paid Â£175 for that SSD about 3 weeks ago
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> where did you buy?
<DJones> Wouldyou believe PCWorld
<Myrtti> ging: connect over SSL and it's not in plain text
<daftykins> DJones: why on earth O_O
<DJones> Work actually paid, so price didn't matter that much
<ali1234> i only paid Â£160 and i bought it about 2 weeks after it was released
<DJones> Â£175 was about the average price I saw checking online before buying it
<daftykins> i got mine cheaper on release day *cough* VAT
<daftykins> this Linksys switch won't ship to the Channel Islands!
<daftykins> argh
<daftykins> it frustrates me to my very core when we get treated as second class citizens
<DJones> It was a case of having to be able to pick one up from store,rather than a cheaper price buying online
<DJones> daftykins: So if they ship to the channel islands, you get a 25% discount over the rest of the uk and consider that as 2nd class citizens?
<DJones> :)
<ali1234> not 25%
<daftykins> where do you get 25% from?
<ali1234> he did the math backwards
<ali1234> if vat was 25% you'd get a 20% discount by not paying it
<DJones> Yep, spot on, good job I'm an accountant
<ali1234> but it isn't
<DJones> Didn't have my calculator to hand
<daftykins> you don't need a calculator to do VAT :(
<daftykins> 10% and double it
<daftykins> i quite like the look of this games console video capture device
<DJones> But not backwards
<ali1234> yeah backwards is harder. 20/120
<daftykins> well i don't know what values you were comparing anyway since i never mentioned any
<daftykins> (that were excluding VAT)
<ali1234> or 1/6. so 16.666%
<DJones> daftykins: Would it have been cheaper than mine or ali1234's if you'd had to add 20% vat?
<daftykins> i dunno, this was months ago
<ali1234> same price probably?
<ali1234> well, same price as mine. cheaper than yours
<DJones> ali1234: Would be Â£133.33 assuming his price included vat
<DJones> Mine was Â£125 ish
<DJones> Â£145 ish
<ali1234> i bought mine with magic internet money anyway
<daftykins> hang on let me compare from the true source
<DJones> But regardless of price, it was a good recommendation from ali1234
<daftykins> ugh not that coin malarkey :P
<DJones> daftykins: Does that mean you paid in "mycoinnameisbetterthanyourcoinname" currency :)
<daftykins> DJones: you come up with some very odd questions
<daftykins> just standard ol' GBP
<daftykins> ok so 512GB MX100 direct from crucial is Â£138.99 to me
<DJones> Heh, by magic internet money, I thought you meant random-coin
<ali1234> it's Â£129 ex vat on scan, which is where i bought mine
<daftykins> that wasn't me that said that, DJones
 * daftykins makes a coffee for DJones ;)
 * DJones throws a whisky in the coffee
 * DJones Oops, that was ahalf a bottle
<ali1234> + Â£5 for delivery
<ali1234> that probably doesn't cover channel islands though
<daftykins> no crucial's delivery is free
<daftykins> you can pick various levels but why would you if you can get it free :>
<ali1234> yeah but it's still more expensive
<daftykins> than what?
<ali1234> than scan Â£129.51 + Â£4.57 delivery
<ali1234> (ex vat)
<daftykins> well obviously etailers differ in price
<daftykins> how are we even having this conversation 0o
<daftykins> i thought you guys were comparing tax to non-tax, not shopping around :P
<DJones> I was just comparing tax/non-tax
<ali1234> i thought we were just bashing PC world for having a 15% markup on everything
<DJones> ali1234: I wasn't doing that, they had stock I could pick up there and then, suited me for this
<daftykins> Â£49.99 for a Linksys 16 port switch 0o
<daftykins> i don't think that's especially all that great?
<ali1234> it's okay. do you really need 16 ports tho? cos 5 port is Â£17
<ali1234> and they do an 8 port one as well
<daftykins> yes, i have an 8 port already and use more than that
<daftykins> not all at once typically but i like to have things patched in
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4kv2v53o0tf934/amazonconfuse.JPG?dl=0
<daftykins> how confusing
<zmoylan-pi> all the more bacon here for us
<zmoylan-pi> whoops, wrong channel...
<DJones> bacon? Where's Jono?
<DJones> Oh I forget, he's run off to xprize
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/v6idg35pa35s5ba/IMG_20141125_185857.jpg?dl=0
<zmoylan-pi> ah, the hackers preferred method of keeping arms warm in cold office
<daftykins> just ignore the terrible handwriting
<davmor2> daftykins: aaaaawwwww an arm warmer how quaint :)
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> more of a typing hinderer
<daftykins> i got a notification a while back by email from a NAS i put in for someone, saying it has an update out for fixing the ol' BASH bugs and what not, but for a device not hosting external services i wouldn't think it worthy to contact a home user and say i need to come over to update it :D
<zmoylan-pi> can i come over and check your script handling is always a good opening line...
<daftykins> thing is it only makes sense to charge for something like that, but equally you can't justify the time
<daftykins> i don't think it matters for a backup NAS for macs that hosts no online services
<ali1234> i would say NAS units are most likely to have exposed cgi scripts that use bash
<zmoylan-pi> was the email from the nas or the company who made the nas?  can be justified as a smart device callout...
<ali1234> haserl is quite common in that type of system
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: automated email notification from the unit, yeah
<zmoylan-pi> so pass on that email and say that your hardware is recommending an importany security update.  it may not be providing web services but you have no idea what security problems will apprear around the corner...
<zmoylan-pi> better safe than sorry
<ali1234> ugh... what was i thinking: _draw_block_type(false, (blocktype)(crash|diamond)); _draw_block_type(2, (blocktype)(crash|diamond));
<diddledan> ali1234, gezundheid
<ali1234> glColor3f(b & 1, b & 2, b & 4);
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> those aren't floats
<diddledan> ali1234, what are you working on?
<diddledan> it's obviously something graphical
<diddledan> 3d monopoly?
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> MMO monopoly would be an interesting concept
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EExQc4s9B8
<diddledan> ali1234, that looks like tetris on steroids
<diddledan> it looks impossible
<ali1234> it's puzzlefighter
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsuaonMxbD0
<ali1234> it's two player tetris with actual strategy
<daftykins> diddledan: bring 'round the horses! i am tempted by chinese takeaway
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> new trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFinNxS5KN4 OH EMM GEE
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rvnczc04ava1ci0/AAAbY8jo8sYdjKk6CcApJ5bqa?dl=0
<daftykins> ;)
 * zmoylan-pi could murder battered sausage and chips right now
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi,  +1
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> daftykins, your money looks fake
<daftykins> ty sir
<diddledan> daftykins, it isn't even trying to look legit
<daftykins> but the queen!
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i hope that's open sauce
<zmoylan-pi> brown and/or red sauce
<mapps> pprentice time yay
<daftykins> ugh :P
<daftykins> can't stand that
 * diddledan watching "the code"
<diddledan> it's a pretty decent intrigue
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-26
<diddledan> omg. 4 hours ago there was talk about a potential golden image for ubuntu touch?!
<daftykins> !?
<daftykins> like a GM 1.0?
<diddledan> that's what it sounded like
<diddledan> so isn't there some announcement by one of the handset partners sometime soon, also (which may be unrelated)
<diddledan> aah, that was earlier today, and was completely unrelated - androidy news
<daftykins> what was said news?
<diddledan> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/11/bq-event-delivers-expecting-nothing-ubuntu-phone
<ali1234> it's all about wearables now anyway
<ali1234> tablets are so 2012
<daftykins> lol
<ali1234> remember i said this when you see everyone wearing smart watches, fitness bands, and heart rate monitoring wireless headphones next year
<daftykins> will do!
<ali1234> the trouble is people just aren't replacing tablets if they already own one
<ali1234> phones are okay, because people get a new one on contract
<daftykins> heh, mugs :D
<daftykins> i still don't know what people use tablets for
<ali1234> they use them for going on twitter and facebook while watching TV
<ali1234> it's called multiscreening
<daftykins> i told off my mum for having her nose on her phone with the TV on as well, with my gran over
<daftykins> it was like she was acting like a teenager :P
<ali1234> well, yes
<ali1234> that's what people do these days, and not just teenagers
<ali1234> basically anyone under 40 and middle class
<daftykins> it's pretty terrible with guests though
<daftykins> it was granny kins' 93rd!
<mapps> hi
<shauno> go to bed :)
<mapps> in a bit tv time;p
<mapps> you slept even?
<shauno> I couldn't.  had to reset a bad pattern in time for work
<mapps> thougt you always stay up late heh
<shauno> nah.  it goes around in cirlces
<shauno> like I average a 30hour day or something.  I'm not in the wrong timezone, but the wrong planet :)
<mapps> ugh
<mapps> 30hr s why
<mapps> id be agitated irritable and tired heh
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey everyone :)
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , how are you doign ?
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah i'm great thanks, you?
<knightwise> Doin ok  :) Working from home today and geeking out a little
<MooDoo> knightwise: nice if you can do it :D
<knightwise> Installing the win10 dev preview in a vm to see what it looks like
<MooDoo> it's lovely
<MooDoo> faster than 7, start menu which you can also add tiles to...are you downloading the iso?  as that's the latest preview.
<knightwise> Correct . I'm booting it up in a VM now .. curious what they made of it.
<awilkins> How long will it last?
<knightwise> Windows 10 ?
<awilkins> I need a WIndows VM for work (our web conferencing thing won't run on Linux)
<awilkins> I have Windows 7 installed but not activated
<awilkins> IN a VM
<knightwise> I've gotten a second hand Surface Pro 1 tablet and have 8.1 on it. Surprisingly pleased with it. Using Chrome and a lot of chrome extensions together with a good terminal tool to connect to my linux servers .. its a decent machine.
<awilkins> Just wondering if it has any activation yet.. :-)
<MooDoo> awilkins: lasts until next april
<awilkins> AHa
<awilkins> Might give that a go then....
<knightwise> I'm kinda using it as a Windows-Chrombeook-Linux_terminal mashup
<MooDoo> then i think it's the customer preview
<MooDoo> just be careful what you use it for as it tracks everything lol
<awilkins> Hmm, yes
<awilkins> Forgotten about that
<awilkins> Probably not acceptable then
<MooDoo> not sure they'll use it for anything but just to bear it in mind....i've been using it awhile and i like it
<MooDoo> they will take all the tracking out for the customer preview.
<knightwise> MooDoo have you installed it on a machine or just using the vm ?
<MooDoo> knightwise: full install of my laptop
<knightwise> Cool :) Bold .. but cool !
<MooDoo> knightwise: works fine, no problems, and to be honest, what they track they track, i'm not concerned, bold?  maybe, stupid definately ;)
<knightwise> by the looks  of it its not that bad. I wonder if i could install it on the Surface pro.. I think I would break the restore image i guess.
<MooDoo> don't know about that
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> o/
<MooDoo> morning
<diddledan> allo
<brobostigon> mornnig
<bashrc> morning
<feisar> morning
<Myrtti> bwah.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Cake Day! \o/
<bigcalm> Mmmmm, cake
<bashrc> cake day. blimey
<bigcalm> JamesTait: you better not be lying
<JamesTait> bigcalm, would I?
<JamesTait> bigcalm, it's on the internet, it must be true.
<bigcalm> Heh
<diddledan> I WANT CAKE!
<bigcalm> Humm. I might have to ask my wife if she fancies baking a cake this week :D
<diplo> Or you could bigcalm ?
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> diplo: hers are superior
<diplo> hah, well you're obviously going to say that
<bashrc> you could have a bake-off
<diddledan> bashrc, no, you bake-off!
<diddledan> family friendly channel!
<MooDoo> sorry my wifes cakes are the bestest
<JamesTait> MooDoo, it's a shame she's not taking orders. I'd have her lined up for the boys' next birthday.
 * zmoylan-pi decides to have a slice of mcvities ginger cake with coffee in lieu of brekkie as i'm out of milk for porridge or bread for toast
<zmoylan-pi> must get powdered milk for emergency backup supply...
<JamesTait> No bread? Let them eat cake!
<zmoylan-pi> ginger cake :-)
<JamesTait> I think I heard someone said something like that once.
<diddledan> a queen
<diddledan> don't recall which tho
<zmoylan-pi> her statement wasn't unreasonable as laws at the time dictated that if shops ran out of bread were required to sell any cakes they made at price of bread
<zmoylan-pi> she just didn't realise they'd run out of bread AND cakes
<diddledan> oh, it might be a fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake
<MooDoo> JamesTait: yeah it is :(
<zmoylan-pi> a good story will outlast any truth
<JamesTait> I recall something about shortbread and shortcake being the same thing, but the different name was due to a legal requirement to pay tax on anything named "bread".
<zmoylan-pi> the great jaffacake debacle...
<JamesTait> "Sell cakes at the price of bread" just reminded me of that.
<dvrr> how  can i add  squid  proxy  ip address  in netgare router, i  configure squid proxy server in  LAN network it's working,  how  can i connect  wifi using squid proxy  please  guide me
<popey> I dont think that's a setting most consumer routers expose
<davmor2> MooDoo: no my wifes are the bestest :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: @_
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: every day is cake day surely?
<JamesTait> davmor2, so I'm right then? ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: also I've never seen a sad cake, or someone look sad while eating cake
<JamesTait> davmor2, you've never seen me baking.
<JamesTait> Although, technically, Rice Krispie cakes don't count as baking. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: or cake technically :P
<JamesTait> Pfft! Details!
<diddledan> <3
<diddledan> chocolate cornflake cakes are awesome, too
<davmor2> Wifes is brandying the Christmas cakes Monday
<JamesTait> diddledan++
<diddledan> davmor2, more than one wife?
<davmor2> meh wifie
<JamesTait> davmor2, they were intended to be Minecraft dirt blocks, and everyone knows Minecraft involves cake, so it's close enough. ;)
<davmor2> diddledan: no one is more than enough
<davmor2> JamesTait: hahahaha
<diddledan> I thought the cake was a lie
<davmor2> diddledan: internet cake is a lie
<JamesTait> diddledan, wrong game. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: have you tried those microwave mug cakes those are meant to be yummy and you have kids so it might be more practical for you, I bet popey has.....for the kids obviously
<JamesTait> davmor2, I have!
<christel> i've tried a couple of recipes i found on the internet but i was unimpressed
<JamesTait> davmor2, a bit rubbery, tbh, but still tastes like chocolate.
<davmor2> hahaha
<zmoylan-pi> -52c... we really shouldn't complain about the weather... :-) http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1126/662682-passengers-in-siberia-get-out-and-push-plane/
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, fun
<zmoylan-pi> and a good retort for when they ask why you look tired after the journey, it's not like you actually did the flying...
<mjayk> Anybody from around the  Manchester area idle here
<Azelphur> does anyone know what the deal is VAT wise if I jump on a plane to America, buy a laptop, and then bring it back?
<diddledan> Azelphur, you're supposed to declare it at customs
<Azelphur> I see, and then you get charged 20%?
<diddledan> you get changed import duty, not vat
<Azelphur> ah fun
<diddledan> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/tax-and-duty.htm
<willcooke> 2.5% for goods up to Â£630
<willcooke> the reality is that they don't check though
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> so just put it in backpack and don't look suspicious
<willcooke> I've heard that if you check away the boxes etc while you're away it is much less obvious
<willcooke> *chuck
<popey> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> so a t-shirt that says 'innocent traveller' on it in 5-6 languages then? :-)
<popey> and receipts
<willcooke> maybe try whistling too
<popey> I was stopped when I came back from SFO once.
<diddledan> willcooke, To work out the percentage, each type of product is given a 'commodity code'. This tells you what the Customs Duty rate percentage is for that particular product, based on whether it's being imported or exported.
<diddledan> There are around 14,000 different classifications. The duty rate percentage for each may vary according to the country the goods come from. The average percentage is between 5% and 9%, but it can be as low as 0% or as high as 85%.
<popey> don't walk like you have something up your bum
<Azelphur> popey: were you over the duty free limit?
<popey> i was
<Azelphur> what did they do? XD
<popey> he asked me questions
<popey> didnt look in the bag
<Azelphur> I see
<willcooke> 2000 B&H and a case of whiskey?
<popey> just stopped to ask what I had
<Azelphur> popey: so you just said nothing? XD
<popey> no, because that's lying.
<Azelphur> true
<popey> and I'm not about to lie to a border guy while on his turf
<Azelphur> probably just say "My laptop"
<popey> I said this..
 * popey types into paste to make it easier
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9249229/
<popey> I believe line 10 is the magic incantation ã
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> I actually flew out with no clothes, just what I had on my back, my laptop and some undies.
<popey> bought everything out there.
<popey> big empty suitcase
<Azelphur> amusingly I am planning on getting a bunch of hard drives and shipping them back to UK too
<Azelphur> so maybe I'll put them in the laptop box xD
<popey> back then clothes were stupidly cheap though
<willcooke> are they that much cheaper over there?
<Azelphur> then I still have my box if I need it
<willcooke> HDDs that is
<Azelphur> willcooke: they should be come black friday.
<popey> they do black friday over here now too in some places
<popey> e.g. amazon
<Azelphur> yea, but nowhere near the same level
<popey> yeah
<willcooke> plus there is the warranty situation, which may or may not be an issue
<Azelphur> sounds like I've gotta buy my laptop from USA since pcspecialist screwed me :(
<zmoylan-pi> and your taste in acceptable clothing was somewhat loser? :-)
<popey> most hard disks have global lifetime warranty
<Azelphur> willcooke: can always just ship it back to USA before sending it back to the manufacturer.
<popey> reminds me, thanks Azelphur . i want to get a couple of disks for my steam boxes
<popey> losing out on the money you saved
<willcooke> Azelphur, sounds like a PITA to me :)
<popey> yeah
<Azelphur> popey: if you spy any HDDs let me know, I imagine me and a few friends are going to be clubbing together.
<popey> for the small amount of beans saved.
<popey> I'm thinking of getting a couple of 4TB ones
<popey> so dunno if they will discount much
<Azelphur> so if you see anything from USA, you're welcome to join our "pool" :P
<popey> coolio
<popey> lemme know when/if you do. I may well join you.
<Azelphur> I imagine we'll ship them all over in one box and split the shipping / customs fees if there are any
<popey> want to make a steam box for the lounge
<Azelphur> and then reship them once they get to me in UK
<Azelphur> probably the cheapest approach
<Azelphur> I have like 5 people who want HDDs now, I have a feeling there's gonna be a lot of HDDs in my house >.<
<zmoylan-pi> offer to run a nas?
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> tempted to buy a few 4TBs and replace the 2TBs in my btrfs array
<popey> reduce the number of drives down and make some space for future
<Azelphur> I've had a 3TB and a 1TB fail, so I need to replace those and get some more space.
<popey> grrr speaking of disks
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9249450/
<Azelphur> :<
<foobarry> popey: i wonder if u have too many disks attached?
<popey> how can I have too many, no such thing â»
<foobarry> how many do u have attached...?
 * zmoylan-pi hands popey 128 usb drives and waits to see them all plugged into one pc :-)
<foobarry> do i eat the carrot cake or an apple for afters?
<popey> 12
<popey> 4 internal, 8 external
<foobarry> *splutter)
<foobarry> are they chained?
<foobarry> or a star formation, each connected to a controller
<popey> uh
<popey> 4 per controller
<foobarry> i bet the ones at the end of the chain are complainng?
<popey> end of the chain?
<popey> its not like 10Base2
<foobarry> well...
<foobarry> ah ok, they aren't chained
<Jim_> Could anyone help me how I should go to zorion chat session rooms?
<Jimsmith> Could anyone help me how I should go to zorion chat session rooms?
<Jimsmith> Hello anybody there?
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> this is a channel about ubuntu
<diddledan> we have no idea what "zorion chat session rooms" are
<Jimsmith> Oh. Could you please help me how I should go there? I am new to this environment actually.
<Jimsmith> I am working on zorion os from ubuntu. How should I get its support?
<zmoylan-pi> http://zorin-os.com/faq.html
<Jimsmith> Thanks and do you know how I should autostart skype from the ubuntu. Infact I am looking for that.
<m0nkey_> Easy, add it to start-up applications
<foobarry> has anyone ever bothered with? http://www.youronlinechoices.com/uk/your-ad-choices
<foobarry> If you donât want Facebook or other companies to collect or use information based on your activity on websites, devices or apps off Facebook for the purpose of showing you ads, you can opt out from all participating companies through the Digital Advertising Alliance in the USA, the Digital Advertising Alliance of Canada in Canada or the European Interactive Digital Advertising Alliance in Europe. You can also opt out using your mobile device settings.
<m0nkey_> Jimsmith, http://i.imgur.com/Fy9GXw3.png
<diddledan> that zorin website makes me uneasy
<Jimsmith> What I meant was when I start the system its not starting automatically. I should go for it and open it inorder to start. Any have I am new to this ubuntu and have no idea where how I should do it. Could you please help me in that for some time
<m0nkey_> Jimsmith, open 'Startup applications' .. add a new entry for Skype .. see screenshot
<Jimsmith> Thanks and let me look at it.
<popey> m0nkey_: why's that?
<m0nkey_> ?
<popey> m0nkey_: sorry, I meant diddledan
<popey> Jimsmith: out of interest, how did you fund us here? Did you search for something in particular, or follow a guide to find this chat room?
 * m0nkey_ tickles diddledan 
<popey> *find - not fund â»
<foobarry> the zorin website has http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ZorinOS&uio=OT10cnVlJjExPTIxNQ6c
<foobarry> under help->irc
<Jimsmith> Thats perfect foobarry. Thanks for the info.
<Jimsmith> popey. I saw this running in my brother system and shown interest on this.
<Jimsmith> I went to the software downloader in this system and downloaded the IRC application. The moment I gave all my details it brought me to here popey.
<popey> Jimsmith: great, thanks!
<popey> do you know which application ?
<Jimsmith> Y W
<popey> is it xchat or hexchat by any chance?
<Jimsmith> Just had a glance at it. Its Xchat Gnome. popey.
<popey> Magic, thanks.
<Jimsmith> So, I could get back here if I face problems with the ubuntu right? popey?
<popey> yes
<popey> However...
<popey> :D
<Jimsmith> Thats a great option in ubuntu.
<popey> If you're running Zorin OS then technically you're not running Ubuntu, but an Ubuntu derivative.
<popey> However we welcome everyone really.
<popey> Secondly the "official" support channel for Ubuntu is #ubuntu - you're currently in #ubuntu-uk
<popey> But again, we get a fair number of people come by here for support.
<mapps> hi all
<popey> It's generally not a problem. I just want to set expectations.
<m0nkey_> I'm here for the S&G
<popey> me too!
<popey> I love both S and G
<Jimsmith> Nice. Actually I want to autostart the Skype. Do you have any knowledge of hot actually I should go in Zorion OS
<popey> Jimsmith: in short, yeah, come back any time â» have fun with Ubuntu or whatever you're using.
<davmor2> popey: Sarcasm and Goading?
<popey> yes davmor2
<m0nkey_> Even us Debian loving, FreeBSD using kind are allowed here :) lol
<popey> Jimsmith: well, as Zorin OS is a _bit_ different from Ubuntu and I suspect nobody here (other than you) runs it, we might not be the _best_ place to get support on it.
<popey> Many of us can make guesses as to how to do stuff in Zorin, but it's not the most efficient way to get support
<Jimsmith> Oh. thats pathetic.
<popey> Well, if you want to a Zorin IRC channel I expect most/all will run Zorin â»
<popey> Same as if you went to a Windows channel ã
<popey> (although I think many in the ##windows channel actually run Linux :D
<zmoylan-pi> something to do while windows installs sp after sp :-)
<popey> heh
<Jimsmith> Do you have any knowledge of how I should go to the Zorion channel. from here?  Or do I need to download any application here that takes me to Zorion environment.
<popey> Jimsmith: but yeah, we're generally a friendly bunch here.
<zmoylan-pi> win8 been unusable while patches were installed is bizarre
<popey> type /join #zorinos
<popey> that'll  "join" the #zorinos channel
<popey> irc is a bit arcane
<popey> there's probably a gui option in xchat gnome which does it, but I haven't used that for years.
<popey> sorry â»
<m0nkey_> Think it's Server > Join a channel
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: spreading a bit too much inaccuracy there i'm afraid :P
<Jimsmith> Thanks popey you have been very helpful.
<popey> No problem.
<Azelphur> popey: http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Expansion-Desktop-External-STBV5000100/dp/B00JT0EGPW/ref=sr_1_7?m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1417009327&sr=1-7 o.O
<Azelphur> that's Â£107
<popey> 5!
<popey> holy cow
<Azelphur> my thoughts exactly
<daftykins> oh my, a 250GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD is coming up on amazon's deals at 3:40pm
<Azelphur> daftykins: indeed, I'm watching that.
<zmoylan-pi> the last drive i had die was seagate so they're still high on my naughty list.  in a year or so one of the wd drives i have will die and take their place
<Azelphur> popey: not sure if I should buy that or wait...
<daftykins> all brands die equally
<foobarry> maxtor more than most
<daftykins> you should all call me the reaper, for the many dead disks i spot in #ubuntu ;)
<zmoylan-pi> true but i tend to avoid the last brand that died for me in case their is a fault in the current design
<daftykins> foobarry: true, but they haven't been around for a looooong time :)
<Azelphur> daftykins: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/blog-fail-drives-manufacture.jpg nope
<daftykins> that doesn't really disprove sir
<daftykins> i mostly buy by warranty length, of which seagate don't have a good one anyway :)
<Azelphur> yea they don't, I actually had the 3TB version of that drive fail on me
<daftykins> this SanDisk flash drive that plugs into phones as well as PCs is an odd duck!
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00HR7J3CA/
<daftykins> ok i have a host restart anywho
<daftykins> \o
<zmoylan-pi> i have one of those usb drives, haven't got a phone or tablet it will work with yet though
<zmoylan-pi> though if i had it with me on saturday a friend could have copied a tonne of stuff from and to it with his shiny new phone i reckon
<daftykins> wow, QNAP 2 bay NAS for Â£130 off
<ujjain> what would be the best things to learn for devops these day carreer wise? probably ansible, docker, something?
<intrbiz> ujjain: I've used Puppet it the past, been using Ansible more recently and much prefer Ansible over Puppet
<ujjain> Puppet seems to be not the future yeah
<ujjain> http://ryandlane.com/blog/2014/08/04/moving-away-from-puppet-saltstack-or-ansible/
<ujjain> ansible extremely gaining popularity
<intrbiz> ujjain: Ansible doesn't require an agent installed on the server, runs over SSH
<intrbiz> A friend has been using SaltStack and reccomends that, but I've not tried it
<intrbiz> I'd like Ansible even more if it didn't use YAML
<ujjain> I think none requires an agent/server combination. It's nice that it runs over SSH yeah.
<ujjain> I have tried both, but both limited experience, mostly used Puppet, it's ok, but always good to work on your skillset.
<intrbiz> yeh, that is the winner for me, runs over SSH and worst case just need python-json installing on older servers
<ujjain> ah yeah, Puppet has some more dependencies, different ports if you dont run masterless etc, that's true
<intrbiz> I prefer Ansibles imperitative approach rather than the declaritaive nature of Puppet
<ujjain> Yeah, I agree that it seems to work well, I want to deploy Openstack with Ansible, seems tricky, but following documentation https://github.com/openstack-ansible/openstack-ansible might be able.
<ujjain> Sometimes I dontlike that in Puppet either no
<intrbiz> anyone had any luck with ufw and multiple interfaces?
 * daftykins glances at Azelphur then back at the Samsung SSD on Amazon ;)
<Azelphur> daftykins: I'm watching the timer :P
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> Azelphur: i nearly got that QNAP NAS but i figured it was a waste, Â£135 for a 2 bay diskless
<Azelphur> daftykins: screw that, watch out for HP Microserver deals
<Azelphur> they come up all the time, and they are awesome
<daftykins> heh, well it wouldn't be for me
<Azelphur> officially 4 drives, but you can cram 6+ into it
<Azelphur> why not?
<daftykins> because https://www.dropbox.com/s/7upq3eh9eqv718t/IMG_20140518_195643.jpg?dl=0
<Azelphur> hehe nice
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> old array at the top, 6x 1TB, new at the bottom 6 x 2TB
<zmoylan-pi> toasty warm that pc
<daftykins> nope not even vaguely
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> 23 deg HDDs ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder if like a gyroscope could you balance it on a single point with all that spinning... :-)
<diplo> If anyone sees any cheap 2 or 4tb disks for my micro server shout :)
<diplo> I have a failing one
<daftykins> will do
<diplo> Blimey daftykins, power usage on that thing must be enormous!!! :P
<daftykins> nah it's really good
<daftykins> i actually dropped power going from 6 x 1TB to 6 x 2TB
<daftykins> that PC is based on a core 2 duo nowadays with 4GB RAM only sadly
<daftykins> SSD for the OS, 2TB download disk and the 10TB RAID5... 85W consumed idle
<daftykins> Azelphur: omg omg omg!
<Azelphur> 20 SECONDS xD
<zmoylan-pi> me calculates that in amount of rasp pi you could run :-)
<daftykins> Azelphur: oh what, Â£3 off?
<Azelphur> yea, that was disappointing.
<daftykins> Â£72.99 delivered here
<daftykins> what do you have?
<Azelphur> same
<Azelphur> which is Â£17.01 off
<daftykins> oh so i'm not even getting any tax benefit 0o
<daftykins> how does that work O_O
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: a whole lot of little toys :P
<Azelphur> daftykins: it's an ok deal anyway, I'm tempted
<Azelphur> dunno if I should wait to see what else comes up though
<daftykins> do you not have VAT listed on that though 0o
<Azelphur> daftykins: huh? I can't get VAT back?
<daftykins> sec
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/92ojhckzl85kb41/ssd.JPG?dl=0
<daftykins> this is what i'm seeing
<Azelphur> daftykins: yup that's what I'm seeing too, Â£72.99 total.
<daftykins> O_O doesn't yours have VAT though? :D
<daftykins> i am le confused
<daftykins> i think they're stiffing us on the tax
 * Azelphur shrugs
<zmoylan-pi> well if they stiff the uk government...
<daftykins> a Crucial MX100 256GB is arguably better for being non-TLC, plus is Â£71.99 delivered
<ali1234> it's slower though
<daftykins> not appreciably
<ali1234> slower than 512GB model
<daftykins> yeah, ~350MB/sec write vs. 500
<daftykins> but TLC in the Samsung EVO is just...
<ali1234> yeah MX100 is the best as far as i can see
<daftykins> i think i'd best skip on that deal too, then
<ali1234> but you need the 512GB because it uses wider NAND
<daftykins> if i'm not even getting it cheaper than you in England =|
<daftykins> yeah, i have a very detailed knowledge of how SSDs work
<daftykins> i already own the 512GB :>
<Azelphur> ali1234: here's a fun question since you know lots about USB
<Azelphur> I've seen android tablets start to use Linux USB-gadget stuff to emulate a USB drive and stuff
<Azelphur> what's the possibility of emulating a USB3 monitor?
<ali1234> it's easy
<Azelphur> ali1234: sweet, so I should be sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for someone to do this.
<Azelphur> because it would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
<ali1234> well you need a phone with USB3 first
<ali1234> and gadget support
<ali1234> i don't think this exists
<ali1234> unless you use a custom kernel
<Azelphur> ali1234: gadget support exists, I'm using it
<Azelphur> on my Nexus 7 running stock Android
<ali1234> how do you know?
<Azelphur> because when I plug the device in the BIOS reports it as "Linux USB-Gadget"
<ali1234> gadget isn't the same as gadget-fs
<Azelphur> oh
<Azelphur> :<
<ali1234> android uses an in-kernel driver that does everything
<ali1234> https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/common/+/2b9b0b6a95cb7adbdd4fa03bff2c7dec86852aa0/drivers/usb/gadget/android.c
<ali1234> if you find the spec for USB monitors i can write a program that emulates one
<ali1234> but it won't work on a stock android
<ali1234> also i don't have time to actually do it
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> ali1234: if you did it you could sell it on google play for Â£5 a pop and be a millionaire
<dexter__> Hey guys, I have come across this problem too many times now, and I'm, guessing it's down to my stupidity. I have a tendancy to come across situations that require me to either install or update some sort of gstreamer. This usually always breaks my system in some way. In this instance Openshot and Cinelerra won't export audio, and the default videos application in gnome and upon crashes with everything. I have no clue what to do save for re-installing t
<dexter__> he operating system.
<ali1234> yeah but as i said it won't work on stock android... i've asked android developers about this before
<ali1234> apart from anything else it would be a security nightmare to give apks access to gadget-fs
<Azelphur> ali1234: well drivedroid uses gadgetfs in an app, but it requires root
<ali1234> you could make some torch app that also emulates a keyboard and takes over your computer
<Azelphur> I'd imagine the same setup for a display
<ali1234> dexter__: gstreamer is bad :(
<ali1234> whether or not audio export works depends on what codec output you select. i know for a fact it does work for some of them
<ali1234> so what you do is export from openshot in a format that works, and then convert that to your target format using good software, like ffmpeg/avconv
<dexter__> I wanted to try out VAAPI encoding to see if I could finally ditch windoze, Hm, I have a wav backing track in Kdenlive and it plays in preview mode, hoever, when it comes to rendering no audio is detected
<ali1234> VAAPI is some crazy hardware thing, not surprised it doesn't work
<ali1234> but same advice applies, export to an intermediate format then use better (not gstreamer) software for the final encode
<dexter__> VAAPI works assuming you install all of the gstreamer stuff, but since doing that my system is a mess
<dexter__> I'm guessing gstreamer has something to do with the audio issues I'm having
<ali1234> yes, it will be. gstreamer is used everywhere from playing mp3s through to video conferencing
<ali1234> and there are multiple different incompatible versions
<dexter__> infact, I'm 100% sure
<ali1234> there is 0.1 and there is 1.0, which is nice and confusing for everyone
<ali1234> it is a filter-graph based library, like directshow for windows
<dexter__> hm, shall I find out which I'm using? my system is 14.10
<ali1234> you are almost certainly using both, because any given software is only compatible with one version or the other
<dexter__> I need to get rid of it, as VAAPI was apalling video wise anyway
<ali1234> heh
<ali1234> so what did you do?
<ali1234> did you follow some tutorial? if so, show me
<dexter__> I did
<dexter__> I'm trying to find it :D
<dexter__> gstreamer1.0-vaapi was installed
<ali1234> can you just link to whatever instructions you followed please?
<Azelphur> ali1234: bonus question, what's the probability of a 5TB hard drive working in a humax set-top box?
<Azelphur> I'm guessing 0? XD
<ali1234> Azelphur: afaik humax boxes only work with certified drives
<Azelphur> ah, that's a bit crap
<Azelphur> thanks for the warning.
<dexter__> I kind find the guide
<dexter__> "can't"
<dexter__> I guess a re-install is in order. and I need to stop messing with stuff I have very little understanding of
<mapps> yo
<mapps> got 5 hours of nothing at work tonght so taking my nexus7:D
<Azelphur> Hmm, going abroad on the 2nd is http://www.amazon.co.uk/Briggs-Riley-Suitcase-Transcend-TU229SPX-12/dp/B007ECE558 worth getting?
<Azelphur> for checke baggage
<mapps> kets see
<Azelphur> got like 11 minutes to ponder the idea :P
<Azelphur> think for checked baggage it's better to get a hard case?
<mapps> ive got a hard case and a soft case
<mapps> i think thats fine
<Azelphur> also wondering if its worth getting or just buying something from Tesco cheap
<mapps> i dont think so..i paid about same for a case from argos
<mapps> tesco had ones for 20-25
<mapps> but id imagine less sturdy..will breal/fall apart quicker
<Azelphur> I see
<mapps> not worth risking it..cmy friend had a cheap case break on him
<Azelphur> mapps: I mean, comparing it to say http://www.thesportshq.com/swiss-case-4-wheel-2pc-hard-suitcase-set-black.aspx?affiliate=cse_google&utm_source=google&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=shopping&gclid=CLrVld7gmMICFakKwwodLm4AYA
<hazrpg> anyone setup a localhost mailbox before? I'm having a bit of trouble trying to get a mail client to read them (although maybe I configured it wrong?) could someone help?
<mapps> not recently hazrpg
<mapps> sec Azelphur
<diddledan> so amazon gave us a scare at 3 this afternoon - they came back up just in time for our site to be accessed by a shedload of journos
<zmoylan-pi> try and find luggage that doesn't use a zip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf-DGKUNffI
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: I'm aware, the old physical access trumps all is usually the case
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: if you have any specific recommendations, show me :)
<zmoylan-pi> unfortunately not but it's something to bear in mind when looking in case you do
<mapps> not sure Azelphur  ?i think the first was fine
<Azelphur> yea, 2nd is Â£30 cheaper though and comes with a carry on too :P
<Azelphur> meh whatever, I'll take it
<mapps> :)
<hazrpg> mapps: fair enough
<Azelphur> there we go, bought it.
<Azelphur> had Â£25 of amazon credit floating about too.
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if amazon will deliver suitcase in cardboard box or will the fact it's an item made to travel and protect contents will a plastic bag suffice...
<bigcalm> svvs123!
<bigcalm> Fudge
<daftykins> bigcalm: that's a fine password ;)
<bigcalm> Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find out what system that password is for :D
<zmoylan-pi> if a little short
<bashrc> ubuntu one?
<bigcalm> It wasn't one I chose
 * bigcalm goes back to working in the correct window
<mapps> zmoylan-pi, cardboard for surew;p
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00D8BGLMY/
<daftykins> Â£22 paid of "500Mb" powerline adapters
<daftykins> *pair
<zmoylan-pi> well selling them singly would make for fun tech support calls
<zmoylan-pi> :-)
<daftykins> they actually do!
<zmoylan-pi> 'i bought one of your powerline adapters and i can't get internet' ... sound of head banging desk...
<daftykins> sadly i imagine that's all too common
 * zmoylan-pi has worked tech support and still twitches when phone rings...
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> my personal best was diagnosing a printer fault and taking 30+ minutes to establish they had no printer... which makes the answers to is the printer on? does the printer have paper? is the cable connecing printer ok? wonder what they were answering
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that's obscene
<daftykins> a client had his home and his office... separate routers at each, of course
<daftykins> got a call one day, weeks after he had taken the PC home to give up renting the office space
<daftykins> <client> where do i put this router?
<diddledan> we're expecting a large load of potentially more than 5 thousand requests per second on one of our sites starting from 9:30 tomorrow morning
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> going live? or some kind of event causing load?
<diddledan> major press release tomorrow
<diddledan> we've built an entirely new set of functionality for the delivery of the information that the press release will be announcing
<zmoylan-pi> handing out leaflets? :-P
<diddledan> hehe
 * zmoylan-pi remebers for first trade show printing 200 leaflets. on dot matrix printer.  we handed out about 10
<zmoylan-pi> do you know how long it takes to print 200 'high quality' leaflets on dot matrix printer?  about 2 of your sanitys :-/
<diddledan> was it the kind that went "blurp blurp" or "blurp boooooooo"
<diddledan> i.e. did it print both directions or just one?
<zmoylan-pi> more the zeeeeeekzzzzkzkkkzzzkzkzkzzzzzkkkzzkzkzkzkzkzzkzkkzkkzkzkzzkkzzkzkkzzzzzzzzzzzzzeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee type
<zmoylan-pi> dogs for miles howling at their leader
<diddledan> on high quality my old one went "blurp. blurp. booo" where it had to stop half way across the line to cache more data
<zmoylan-pi> just one.  had to drag it out slow in 'high quality' mode
<zmoylan-pi> each page fed in individually as page feed for traction paper feed was terrible
<mjayk> Afternoon all
<Ricey> evening
<daftykins> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-27
 * m0nkey_ tickles diddledan 
<m0nkey_> Popsicle!
<daftykins> :o
<m0nkey_> the wife did that
<daftykins> lol, do you guys know diddledan?
<m0nkey_> That'll teach me not to hit Super+L
<m0nkey_> Yeah, long time.
<daftykins> you poor poor...
<daftykins> ;D
<m0nkey_> First knew him from IrCQNet
<m0nkey_> Wow, approx 10+ years ago
<m0nkey_> I'm old
<m0nkey_> bbiab.. play time (GTA)
<shauno_> morning
<daftykins> hey shauno_, how goes it?
<shauno_> same old same old :)
<daftykins> :D
 * daftykins sips Guinness
<m0nkey_> shauno, ircqnet, shaun per chance?
<shauno> yup
<daftykins> :O
<m0nkey_> heh
<shauno> I have very little imagination when it comes to nicks
<m0nkey_> Probably know me as Wellard, used to be CtrlAltDel.. long time ago
<shauno> oh hah, hey dave
<m0nkey_> yeah, he remembers
<m0nkey_> :)
<m0nkey_> how goes it?
<shauno> still alive!
<m0nkey_> diddledan told me you hang here
<mapps> hi
<mapps> strange noone awake for once
<MooDoo> morning all
<twager> ls -a
<DJones> This is not the terminal you are looking for
<MooDoo> lol
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Phillip Hughes Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<czajkowski> aloha
<JamesTait> czajkowski, \o
<czajkowski> hows things?
<zmoylan-pi> saw an adorable pug pigy bank and thought of bash last week
<czajkowski> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bonkers-Bash/739967579348639?fref=ts
<czajkowski> most up to date pics
<MooDoo> loved the "why don't you play with me" picture lol
<czajkowski> yes he does give that face a lot while I try and work
<MooDoo> awwwww lol
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> greetings earthlings.
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<foobarry> arggh lightning deals :(
<foobarry> i should wait until december to buy presents because amazon are getting me to buy more
<zmoylan-pi> at least the web will be faster today as americans are stuck with family in a reduced number of locations and the bandwidth of their parents sucks
<davmor2> JamesTait: why would you be happy at someones death and then laugh about it at the end ;)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dogmatic69> o/
<davmor2> morning bigcalm what time did you guys leave last night?
<bigcalm> davmor2: about 10ish. Did you turn up after that?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I knocked off around then and thought about coming up just as well I didn't :)
<bigcalm> Ah, yes
<bigcalm> davmor2: you will be coming to the xmas meet/meal though, right?
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed
<popey> I feel like I'm being judged http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/device-2014-11-27-115941.png
<bigcalm> That would be a nice thing to see on my phone
<davmor2> popey: that or he is wishing for a phone call :D
<Myrtti> I might put this on mine http://i.imgur.com/939hV8R.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> i usually just make a jpg with my phone number on it
<czajkowski> https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/537940305530855424  co working today :D
<popey> yeah, i grabbed all those wallpapers
<popey> hmm http://paradoxgirl.com/
<diplo> OK girls and boys, I'm in quite dire need of a phone
<Myrtti> Nexus 5
<diplo> Not got a lot to spend, Â£100 -> Â£200 max as I'm rather skint
<diplo> Second hand is ok, or maybe the new Moto ones that Tesco sell ?
 * zmoylan-pi recommends nokia feature phone.  terrible but indestructible and does web, email, mp3s, radio, ereader, irc if you're patient
<bigcalm> Tesco would be a good place to shop. There are loads of smart phones for less than 100 quid
<Myrtti> Moto G
<davmor2> diplo: wait till tomorrow and see what is on offer in the black friday sale?
<diplo> Yeah probably am davmor2, just thought I'd ask recommendations here
<bigcalm> I know we live in a global market, but that annoys me that such things make it over here
<diplo> I was bidding on an S4 on Ebay yesterday for Â£130
<zmoylan-pi> my current nokia is from tescos where it was â¬29 :-)
<diplo> I've still got my 6310 zmoylan-pi, still works :)
<davmor2> diplo: unless moto's policy has changed they tend to suck for updates
<diplo> Until recently weren't they a google part, they still suck ? And to be honest I'm quite happy Roming a phone
<zmoylan-pi> and when ever people ask i take it out and bonk it of floor or furniture to show indestructability :-D
<Myrtti> if you want something new with that money, then Moto G
<davmor2> diplo: ^ I would say not anymore then is Myrtti 's comment is anything to go by
<Myrtti> if you're fine with second hand, then Nexus 5 or her ilk.
<diplo> I'm just ebaying it now Myrtti thanks
<Myrtti> but Moto G seems good value for the money and had it been available when I was buying a phone for my sister a year ago, I would've gotten it instead of a second hand Nexus 4
<diplo> yeah I've bought one for my dad, he likes it but doesn't use it
<diplo> Like I would
<Myrtti> there's a new version of it, I can't remember what they changed but IIRC it's still good value for the 150 whatever it is
<Myrtti> my sister adores her Nexus 4 :-)
<diplo> Such ranging prices on ebay ( also don't like buying things like phones from ebay ) :/
<diplo> Going to look at the MotoG as well, pop in store or something
<Myrtti> yeah, it's always a hassle
<awilkins> diplo, Daughter has a Moto G ; I have no complaints
<awilkins> Apparently getting a Lollipop upgrade soon also
<awilkins> davmor2, You'd expect Motorola to be pretty sharp on updates... when they were owned by Google. But Lenovo own them now.
<davmor2> awilkins: they were awful but only in the uk in the us they were really on the ball
<bigcalm> I was going to say. When I had the Xoom tablet, it got bugger all updates
<awilkins> This is why I have a Nexus 4
<awilkins> Nexii 4 & 7 both got a nice factory-wipe and upgrade to 5
<awilkins> I like it
<awilkins> Although possibly I like having a nice clean device with fewer apps on too...
<Myrtti> sister got her L OTA on Nexus 4 day before
<Myrtti> needed a bit of fumbling to get it to download but nothing a reboot wouldn't solve
<awilkins> Yeah, doing a factory install is rather a fiddle
<awilkins> I was bored
<awilkins> Reading the specs of the Nexus 6. It completely poops all over PCs I owned until recently
<zmoylan-pi> can it run ubuntu?
<awilkins> It's screen completely poops all over all the main PC monitors I own*right now*
<awilkins> I'm sure some enterprising soul will get Ubuntu running on it
<Jim_> Can you guys help me how I should automate the skype in Zorion OS. I am feeling a bit annoyed to turn it on soon after restarting the sys everytime though.
<daftykins> i believe Zorin may have their own support channel, on freenode
<Jim_> hey daftykins could you please direct me how I should head to that freenode?
<Jim_> Thanks for the reply by the way.
<daftykins> someone might feel helpful and try to help you, but this is an Ubuntu channel for Ubuntu... despite one being based on another it doesn't make them the same
<daftykins> well, they might have info on their website... otherwise you can try querying alis
<daftykins> !alis
<lubotu3`> alis is a services bot that can help you find channels. Read "/msg alis help list" . For more help or questions relating to alis, please join #freenode. Example usage: /msg alis list #ubuntu* or /msg alis list *http*
<popey> Jim_:  /join #zorinos
<Jim_> HI popey you came again. Thanks.
<popey> there's like 10 people in there though, so you may need to wait a while in there
<Jim_> Oh. I have been to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ZorinOS&uio=OT10cnVlJjExPTIxNQ6cunder%20help-%3Eirc and none helps me here.
<Jim_> :(
<daftykins> ah Zorin, for the "i can't believe it's not Windows" experience
<popey> yeah, I'm not surprised you don't get a reply.
<Jim_>  lubotu3 has said something which I didn't understand. I am sorry about it.
<popey> lubotu3` is a bot
<lubotu3`> Yes, I can confirm that I am a bot. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots for all information.
<popey> lulz
<daftykins> Jim_: do you think maybe you could also try #ubuntu-in today? :)
<daftykins> maybe someone there uses it.
<Jim_> This time I need to fix my problem and shouldn't look at IRC chat for the same issue.
<Jim_> I am going to #ubuntu-in , #freenode, #ubuntu*  hope they fix my issue.
<Jim_> Bye Popey
<foobarry> i wouldn't agree that zorin is a "gateway to linux" if you can't get help with it
<daftykins> heh
<foobarry> gateway to $OLD_OS
<Myrtti> which is exactly why I don't install anything but Ubuntu on anyone's machines
<daftykins> getting pretty tired of seeing the Ubuntu derivative users come in "but it's Ubuntu really!" ... "but nobody's helping me in its channel!"
<foobarry> i sometimes install windows7 if thats what they ask for
<daftykins> even had a CentOS user asking for help the other day 0o
<foobarry> was it me?
<foobarry> :P
<daftykins> lol no
<daftykins> i think the best yet was yesterday
<daftykins> <me> what version are you running?
<daftykins> <user> umm that's a long story, but basically... trunk arch with unity compiled
<daftykins> great Â¬_Â¬
<foobarry> abandon all hope
<foobarry> it seems my previous house owners used the most expensive wooden floor you can buy
<daftykins> are you drilling holes in it? :D
<foobarry> no, i'm trying to buy more of it
 * davmor2 looks over at his Suse 6.3 box and wonders whatever happened to his corel linux box :)
<foobarry> Â£55.34 per mÂ²
<Myrtti> foobarry: I just tell them that if they want Windows7, they can ask for someone else for help
<Myrtti> mind you, I did help my niece last week to pick the best iPad her money could buy
<foobarry> when its ur mum and sibling its not so easy, but agree for othrs
<Myrtti> but she knows I can't help her with it beyond that
<daftykins> fair enough offer to support what you know, but to force people into a given choice is just silly
<foobarry> was jim another of our indian friends?
<daftykins> yep
<foobarry> maybe popey means support desk in indian
<daftykins> probably the same one, masquerading
<foobarry> same behaviour but better english
<popey> I thought the Jim who dropped by the other day was from the UK
<popey> I mtr'ed his IP
<daftykins> mtr?
<popey> ya
 * popey â¥ mtr
<daftykins> i just nslookup their IP, usually resolves to a domestic host :>
<daftykins> although it's not working on the one over in #ubuntu right now
<popey> mtr is fewer keypresses :D
<daftykins> that it is! probably isn't on Windows as well though *checks*
<daftykins> nope
<popey> hate it when i mis-click on suspend instead of shutdown
<popey> no no no no noooooooooooo
<daftykins> :D
<bigcalm> popey: at least it's that way around
<popey> well yes
<popey> but shutdown has confirmation
<popey> suspend doesnt
<mjayk> afternoon all
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<daftykins> greetings
<bigcalm> When it comes to shutdown, I get annoyed by clicking restart instead of shutdown :D
<zmoylan-pi> make a link to shutdown and put on desktop all on it's tod?
<foobarry> i use the power button
<foobarry> :S
<foobarry> then use arrow keys
<foobarry> old skool
<popey> RETRO COOL!
<bigcalm> On the laptop, I press the power button then touch the screen to shutdown
<foobarry> colleague just belched . now i can smell curry. not cool
<zmoylan-pi> better up than down
<daftykins> animals
<mjayk> A
<daftykins> B
<mjayk> i C what you did thur
<daftykins> Did you? :>
<mjayk> yEs i did
<bigcalm> Fish
<diplo> daftykins, WinMTR - standalone app
<diplo> Quite good :)
<mjayk> urgggggggggggghhh i have zero motivation to write stuff
<foobarry> write what
<foobarry> love letters?
<foobarry> songs? poetry? code?
<mjayk> thesis
<mjayk> even worse!
<awilkins> Learn LaTeX
<awilkins> Then you can procrastinate about your thesis much more efficiently
<Myrtti> LaTeX â¥
<Myrtti> I made the Wedding Survival Guide that we sent out with the invites with LaTeX
<Myrtti> gotten nothing but compliments
<bashrc> what are the advantages of LaTeX?
<awilkins> It's basically a professional typographical syste,
<awilkins> Does very attractive document layout without tarting around with Word buttons for 6 hours and swearing and biting the couch
<Myrtti> it just works. flat file system that's readable and writable with any text editor, lends itself easily into version control
<awilkins> Downside : Arcane
<Myrtti> you can get great results with little to no effort, and if you want to you can tweak it to your hearts content
<awilkins> Myrtti, you using LyX or straight LaTeX ?
<Myrtti> straight latex
<Myrtti> lyx is for peons
<Myrtti> latex is supported by even Google Docs via an extension
<awilkins> My sysadmin is using LyX
<awilkins> :-)
<awilkins> Oooh
<Myrtti> also, pandoc
<foobarry> its good for theses and books
<awilkins> Yeah, we're kinda doing initial drafts of documents now
<Myrtti> and slidesets, and CV's
<foobarry> its quite distinctive classic sttyle
<foobarry> jury's out on cvs
<awilkins> Documents are stone boring, so the techies are doing it with these things
<awilkins> I used Markdown / Pandoc and spat forth a PDF
<Myrtti> foobarry: as I said, if you configure it enough you can make it sing
<awilkins> Didn't look bad but the sysadmin won in terms of prettiness
<awilkins> And having a contents index
<foobarry> the posters i see are hideous, probably because they are made by scientists
<awilkins> Using LyX
<Myrtti> awilkins: remind me to make a censored version of the source and pdf and to show it to you
<awilkins> Myrtti, Looking at that latex app for Google Docs now. It's shiny.
<Myrtti> is the Amazon Lightning Deal Aquatouch shaver any good?
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004XIBAT0/ this one
<davmor2> Myrtti: it'll work as well as any other phillips shaver I would image, does that help at all?
<Myrtti> I suppose
<Myrtti> I think I'll order it
<foobarry> they philips shavers chew my face
<foobarry> YMMV
<foobarry> bought one and couldn't use it
<Myrtti> he already uses one *shrug*
<foobarry> at what filesize does sqlite become unrealistic for use?
<daftykins> what an incredibly unlikely amazon link http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00KFAGCUM/
<foobarry> spoke to a bloke and got really good pre-sale service. then i realised a place near me has it and for Â£50 cheaper (free shipping). feel bad now
<awilkins> foobarry, The absolute max is 140TB
<foobarry> currently reading http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3630/sqlite-vs-mysql
<awilkins> foobarry, The limits for sqlite are more likely to do with wanting concurrent access, than data size
<foobarry> basically i have a large flat file of 1.3G that needs dumping to db for better querying
<awilkins> daftykins, Wow, they got big fast
<foobarry> so if my queries got done "offline" rather than dynamically done upon user request then should be fine
<awilkins> 512GB for Â£150 ... paid Â£120 for 64GB a few years ago
<awilkins> foobarry, 1.3GB should be fine for that sort of thing... if anything, sqlite has lower overheads than a traditional CLient / Server database
<foobarry> it seems so, especially for read-heavy queries
<DJones> Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!!! Will anybody swap elbows, while a cortisone injection settles down for the next few days
<daftykins> hahaha, what do they feel like?
<DJones> Nasty
<DJones> Injection doesn't hurt, but the next 3-4 days will be agony
<DJones> Little to no use of the arm
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> i've already had that since my bike accident :>
<daftykins> it can be a pretty trying time
<DJones> Yep, had one 6 months ago that worked for a while, 2nd one now, its just the constant ache that bugs me
<DJones> Ooh, nice, Bladerunner sequel being made
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<bigcalm> My ubuntu desktop is failing to load. After logging in via lightdm, the background updates but Unity doesn't load.
<bigcalm> In case it was a Unity issue, I installed kubuntu-desktop. Rebooted, selected KDE from lightdm and logged in. The background changes to black and nothing else gets loaded
<awilkins> Does it do that for a new user profile?
<bigcalm> In both instances, the mouse pointer can be moved around the screen but it doesn't interact with anything
<bigcalm> Also, ctrl+alt+t doesn't bring up a terminal
<bigcalm> I think I checked that, but I'll check again
<bigcalm> Yes, I selected the guest session and the same thing happens
<mapps> hello
<DJones> Is it me you're looking for
<mapps> raining again
<mapps> :(
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> DJones: +1 for that
<mapps> its raining but warm but still feel stupid wearing shorts
<mapps> :D
<mapps> hate getting soggy jeans tho
<mapps> booked a flight to heathrow on BA and it says i get 23kilo in hold 1 bag carry on + laptop bag..thats pretty good..the other airlines say laptop bag counts as carry on iirc so i always chuck it in my bag
<mapps> :)
<shauno> meh, ryanair let you take a laptop bag now :p
<mapps> ah now
<mapps> thats good
<mapps> im always almost near my max allowances
<mapps> but then i do take 2 laptops and a tablet in my carry on
<mapps> is it possible to turn up at an airport and say youll go ANYWHERE and get chreap tickets? ive heard people claim it is..but dont necessarily believe it - every flighrt ive been on has been full
<awilkins> Maybe it's possible if you're ok waiting
<awilkins> They are always super dead keen to put bums on all the seats
<awilkins> They upgraded me and a pal to "economy plus" (the plus is 2 inches more legroom - well worth the extra money for a 10 hours flight)
<mapps> im off 8th-13th december and wanna go somewhere
<mapps> dont care where
<awilkins> I imagine on a big plane the statistical likelyhood of a no-show is pretty high
<mapps> like we considered estapona then on to marbella then malaga and grandad all easy for us
<mapps> but id go anywhere poland..italy whatever..aslong as return isnt 10x more
<mapps> my flight to Latvia 32gbp return 150 LOL and this was in advance
<m0nkey_> domestic, standby is doable. european (one stop), can be done. International, forget it.
<daftykins> hrmm got a chap with a Toshiba based on an AMD E1-1200 APU that's being really awkward to boot
<daftykins> i've had to revert to suggesting a mini.iso install, just doesn't get anywhere either in EFI or legacy boot with a 64-bit desktop ISO
<shauno> hm.  you know a script's going wrong when you download an 8Mb file that contains only commas.
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<daftykins> shauno: comma comma comma chameleon
<shauno> :|
<shauno> you've been spending too much time with Dan  lol
<shauno> hm.  I wonder if I can sneak that in there.  "if I have 8 million null values, print 'chameleon'"
<shauno> I think I'm doing this wrong.  rearranging an array shouldn't peg an i7 for 30 seconds
<daftykins> crikey, i would hope not
<daftykins> what on earth would prevent GRUB install from working 0o
<daftykins> ah, that'd be it - the hard disk is /dev/sdb
<daftykins> go go gadget grub-installer from busybox
<daftykins> if transplanting a laptop's hard disk into a desktop, can it be slaved to the current OS and GRUB installed do it with "grub-install /dev/sdx" easily enough?
<daftykins> s/do it/to it/
<diddledan> yawn
<diddledan> so I missed daylight
<daftykins> diddledan: :O!
<daftykins> yeah i got that way a while back :( it's not good
<daftykins> diddledan: are you any good with GRUB installs? :D
<diddledan> so, I can now tell you what the press release was that I mentioned last night
<daftykins> yay!
<diddledan> http://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmic/
<diddledan> it's the "how well is your police force doing" stuff
<DJones> diddledan: Not very well I'd say, walked the dog last night, copper in patrol on his to a crime stopped after driving round our entire estate and asked me how to get to the supposed crime scene
<DJones> in patrol car
<daftykins> uh-oh
<diddledan> DJones, I only do the website :-p
<DJones> You could say that, could job the crime he said he was going to was only kids smoking dope and not an in progress murder
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> 1 hour ago on the ubuntu touch mailing list: " image #10 is considered to be our 'Gold Master' image.
<diddledan> "
<diddledan> actually 2 hours nearly - gmail sucks at times
<diddledan> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/11/26/earth-wrapped-in-star-trek-force-fields_n_6227676.html
<daftykins> is it still worth installing "ubuntu-desktop^" if i've got someone to do a mini install?
<daftykins> or does the ^  not matter?
<daftykins> i remember popey mentioning it
<daftykins> this is 14.04.1
<diddledan> looks like our infrastructure held up today for the hmic site - peaked at about 2000req/min
<diddledan> that was between 10 and 12
<diddledan> we're still averaging around 250-500 req/min now
<daftykins> :>
<mapps> this film the maze runner is coo
<mapps> five fruits bulmers hm never had that before
<mapps> are you allowed to bring spirits in hold luggae? was gonna bring 2 bottles of woods rum for my dad like 6 quid here 25 quid for 70cl in uk
<mapps> Â£6.50 here
<mapps> also it says you can only take 1 bottle of spirits and 400 cigs...if i took more with me and they searched my case or whatever what happens? i get it confiscated..i get a fine? or can i just pay the tax and keep it? not even sure what the tax would be
<mapps> unsure of how it all works..and do the airport people care if i have 2 bottles in my hand luggage yet only allowed 1? or is it only at UK end id have prblems?
<daftykins> maze runner 0o
<daftykins> that reminds me
<daftykins> hear the good news?
<daftykins> Blade Runner sequel!
<mapps> nice
<mapps> yea its cool daftykins  im 51mins in got an hour left
<mapps> any idea about my flight qs?
<mapps> would the staff at gib airport care?
<mapps> or would it just be UK end i may get hassle
<daftykins> oh didn't see that
<mapps> im not sure how it all works would gib just let me fly with whatever as they dont care or does the airport you fly from enforce the destination country rules
<daftykins> never bought duty free or alc i'm afraid
<daftykins> i'm a good boy
<mapps> its 6.50 a bottle!! so cheap
<mapps> Â£6 a litre of stoli
<mapps> i might just buy like 5 bottles and chance it
<mapps> worst case scenario i lose a few quid i think
<daftykins> ;]
<diddledan> I feel saddened: http://www.newser.com/story/199159/plug-pulled-on-worlds-2nd-most-watched-clock.html
<awilkins> Â£6 for a litre of stoli is good
<shauno> mapps: the allowance for spirits is only 1litre
<shauno> if they catch you over that, you pay %*Â£28.22 + VAT
<mapps> what that mean
<mapps> % 20.22?
<shauno> the excise is 28.22 per litre of actual alcohol
<shauno> so, eg, if you have one litre of 40% spirit, you have 0.4 litres, so you pay 0.4*28.22
<mapps> hm
<shauno> (plus VAT afterwards heh)
<mapps> so thatd be 11 quid and what would vat be?
<mapps> but what about what i asked re the departure airport..would they care if there's 2 bottles in my hand luggage when its scanned
<mapps> or would they just wave it through
<shauno> I actually have no idea how they figure the vat.  logically it'd be what you paid (purchase+excise) * 20%, but .. I've no idea how they'd figure out what you paid originally
<shauno> I don't think the departing airport tend to care.  as long as it's not liable to explode, it's not their problem
<mapps> yea
<mapps> jhm cant do what i planned either buy 2 bottles morrisons 1 hand and 1 in hold..cant have any liquids . 100ml in hand of course
<mapps> and if i have them in the hold 100% theyd know when its scanned on arrival at heathrow?
<shauno> no idea about that bit.  technically you declare it at customs ;)
<shauno> (and you can have more than 100ml in your carry-on.  you just can't take more than 100ml through security.  if you buy it after that, it's clear)
<mapps> iyou do? i thought they just see it when its scanned and automaticxaLLY bug you
<mapps> if the departing airport let you buy over 1 litre and you put it in hand luggage surely the arrivla airport wouldnt know? ------ they dont check hand lkuggage on landing?
<TheBlackRussian> How can i write Russian in LibreOffice Writer? It wont allow me to copy and paste russian words in
<shauno> I honestly have no idea how they 'catch' you.  I tend to run out of suitcase long before I have to worry about that :)
<mapps> hm not sure TheBlackRussian  set it to UTF8? is that maybe why
<TheBlackRussian> how can i do that?
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: go ask your Russian friends in #ubuntu-ru
<daftykins> shockingly none of us write Russian very often
<mapps> heh
<TheBlackRussian> Im not asking you to write in russian, im ask you how CAN I WRITE RUSSIAN in libreoffice
<diddledan> we don't know because we've never done it
<daftykins> ^
<mapps> http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/russian-dictionary-pack
<mapps> check site
<mapps> it oibv supports russian
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: i understood you the first time and my statement still stands
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: maybe i should go ask how to write chinese in #ubuntu-fr ?
<daftykins> similar goal.
<shauno> I'd suspect libreoffice-l10n-ru - office productivity suite -- Russian language package
<shauno> but that's guesswork
<shauno> well, grepwork
 * diddledan greps shauno 
<daftykins> no hits
 * shauno awks
<TheBlackRussian> well, if you want to write something in a language and you cant i would expect one to come here seeking for support. The person doesnt want to chinese here but want to find a solution to the problem
<shauno> hm, really?  I just assumed it'd be the same thing in debian.  sorry :)
<zmoylan-pi> that's what he sed :-P
<diddledan> TheBlackRussian, this is #ubuntu-uk - the hint is we're british
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: this is a damned -UK channel
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: you need to start using the MAIN support channel, #ubuntu
<diddledan> we really need to fix this issue
 * daftykins hands diddledan the rope
<shauno> TheBlackRussian: no-one's trying to be rude, just that -uk isn't the ideal place for that.  the british are famously monolingual, so we lack any experience with the issue.  you might want to try #ubuntu proper, or #ubuntu-ru for people who'd have experience with cyrilic-specifics
 * diddledan makes a noose
<diddledan> how is that word even supposed to be spelt?
<TheBlackRussian> the last time i checked the uk it was full of poles and asians!
<mapps> ;]
<shauno> probably not like that.  but as an aside, I challenge anyone to say cyrilic-specific ten times fast ;)
<diddledan> TheBlackRussian, but they don't consider themselves british, so they don't hang around in british places
<mapps> yea
<TheBlackRussian> Do you live in London?
<mapps> nie
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> do you?
<TheBlackRussian> yes
<diddledan> well twist my nipple nuts and call me susan!
<diddledan> that surprised me
<TheBlackRussian> My point is, try taking a bus in london. Its full of the poles and asians
<mapps> thats true
<TheBlackRussian> to be honest with you i dont think a british is on a bus most of the time.
<TheBlackRussian> i only see them in rush hour. Other than that its impossible to find a white british on a bus
<diddledan> but anyway, we're trying to help you get the best help you can for your issue - as you're trying to write in russian the best places to find specific help on that issue are #ubuntu-ru and #ubuntu
<mapps> TheBlackRussian,  ave a look at what shauno  said
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: enough, go to the relevant channels.
<TheBlackRussian> im going to ignore you dafty for a while since its had been clearly shown i have owned your arse in that agrument.
<TheBlackRussian> Where is the tool bar in libra
<diddledan> wb mapps
<diddledan> map
<daftykins> i cannot stand this delinquent
<TheBlackRussian> a delinquent? i have yet to committed anything
<intrbiz> except for casual racism
<daftykins> TheBlackRussian: do you forget how much i helped you, only for you to give me attitude and no word of thanks - i tell you where to ask questions for better support and yet you still sit here wasting our time
<diddledan> http://t.co/ZXHAUccHpr
<daftykins> you are not worthy of assistance.
<diddledan> cute
<shauno> can we just ignore it and see if it goes away?
<TheBlackRussian> the thing is, a. i was a bit drunk. and b i dont want to go to the ru verison when i can speak prefect english
<daftykins> shauno: *nod*
<intrbiz> TheBlackRussian: on a serious note, I think you need too look at the input frameworks, like ibus or scim
<intrbiz> but most of us here will never have used stuff like that
<TheBlackRussian> mapps solved the issue
<TheBlackRussian> or maybe not
<map> see what intrbiz said TheBlackRussian
<TheBlackRussian> i just go on window 7 and do it from office...
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> msoffice is not the solution. the solution is to ask someone who can help - we can't.
<intrbiz> TheBlackRussian: Have a look in system preferences, keyboard, layouts
<intrbiz> TheBlackRussian: I suspect you need to add a Russian keyboard layout and configure a key to toggle between
<diddledan> in related question. is msoffice _ever_ the solution to anything?
<directhex> yes.
<shauno> yes.  excel>*
<diddledan> aah
<shauno> there is no finer torture implement I'm afraid.
<directhex> msoffice is the right solution if you already have a lot of institutional msoffice use - macros, training, etc
<intrbiz> Is suspect Google will be more help with switching keyboard layouts than us lot.
<directhex> can be cheaper than retraining
<intrbiz> TBH, not used MS officer for years now
<intrbiz> but then I rarely use office programs it seems
<diddledan> intrbiz, I don't seem to use office suites very much either
<diddledan> I need to keep them about becuase people send me screenshots inside an msword document
<TheBlackRussian> How can i remove ubuntu?
<intrbiz> I seem to use plain text / mark down more and more these days
<TheBlackRussian> made up my mind, i want ubuntu gone
<intrbiz> TheBlackRussian: I suggest you ask that somewhere else
<TheBlackRussian> its useless and is driving me nuts. You cant do basic things on it
<daftykins> troll shows its' colours more and more.
<TheBlackRussian> im not a troll, not sick and tried of using a os
<TheBlackRussian> which is not for me
<diddledan> webchat, too
<diddledan> driveby mormon
<intrbiz> what an <insert favourite expletive>
<diddledan> intrbiz, you did well not to say that while he was here :-p
<intrbiz> diddledan: yeh, might have been thinking it, I couldn't work out if it was sarcasm lost over IM, or just a bit of an arse
<daftykins> my favourite bit was being called German last time after helping for hours
<diddledan> daftykins, lol. that's somewhat random.
<intrbiz> daftykins: in a good way?
<daftykins> nah, it was an attempt at an insult out of nowhere 0o
<diddledan> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10616268_981684045185940_203971364100268727_n.jpg?oh=56a3272b20b643873749cdecd1ca77cb&oe=5517E989&__gda__=1423308535_13aad614b7966c11c9ed0ea3f26d042e
<daftykins> i'm not German but i wouldn't find it a problem :(
<diddledan> that's a fun url
<diddledan> facebook, Y U DO DIS!
<intrbiz> daftykins: right, seems a strange insult
<shauno> I'm so confused.  germans are bad at pasting russian?
<intrbiz> shauno: huh?
<shauno> exactly
<map> hm
<map> if i stay here flights to ibz are only 60 quid..so cheap
<daftykins> i thought that was a 90s thing :D
<map> i just wanna go everywhere...may aswell
<shauno> ibiza isn't really 'everywhere' .. it's just drinking in a different spanish bar :p
<map> ;]
<nathanm> hi
<nathanm> can u answer a quetion
<intrbiz> helps if you tell us the question first
<nathanm> what does ls | grep D mean
<intrbiz> it means: execute 'ls' pipe it to 'grep' and look for the string 'D'
<intrbiz> the | character will redirect the output of a program to the input of another program
<intrbiz> the ls program will list files
<nathanm> what does ls > list mean and ls >> list
<intrbiz> the grep program will search the input with a regex
<nathanm> how do you create a new directory
<intrbiz> the > and >> will redirect the program output to a file, the >> means append > means overwite
<intrbiz> nathanm: mkdir
<intrbiz> mkdir directory_name
<intrbiz> or mkdir /full/path/to/directory_name
<nathanm> how do you create a text file in terminal
<intrbiz> vim /path/to/file
<intrbiz> will open the vim editor to edit (or create) a file
<nathanm> thanks for your help much appriciated :)
<intrbiz> nathanm: there are plenty of good tutorials on line for the Linux CLI / Bash
<map> have to remember to get an extension socket thing soon
<map> have to unplug one laptop to use other
<map> :D
<map> well ok i can use both..but battery doesnt last forever ;[
<directhex> if anyone cares, xbone plus AC5 plus AC4 will be ~cheap on amazon in 15 mins
<directhex> ps4 with driveclub 30 mins later
<diddledan> just finished watching "the code" - was good
<diddledan> 6 hour-long eps
<diddledan> I don't get paid until around 2-4pm tomorrow tho
<diddledan> damned amazon
<diddledan> :-p
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-28
<diddledan> lol, the xbone is already sold out
<diddledan> "xbone" totally sounds pornographic to my sick mind
<diddledan> but then, there isn't much that doesn't
<directhex> wow, they had a 360 with 3 games and a year od xbox gold for Â£99
<ging> tesco are meant to have a deal on xbox1 and ps4, there site is down, as is game's
<popey> its up, but slow
<directhex> i see no games discounts on tesco direct
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30212115
<popey> they were taken off the plane I landed on, on tuesday
<popey> we all had to stay seated as loads of cops and immigration people came on the plane
<daftykins> ooh-err
<zmoylan-pi> armed police?
<directhex> pc world website is closed; 6 minute wait to access it
<directhex> shopping hysteria...
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think by now they'd have bots in app stores to queue in ecommerce sites and buy bargains for you :-)
<directhex> "The queue is paused. "
<directhex> i don't even want anything from currys. but i *must* know why their site is so loaded!
<popey> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/google-chromecast-18-tesco-instore-2063410
<popey> interessin
<popey> http://www.hotukdeals.com/black-friday is probably a good starting point
<directhex> what *is* chromecast? why do i care?
<popey> wat
<popey> you dont know?
<popey> i have 3 which i think is enough
<daftykins> they don't fit my usage, personally
<directhex> it's a thing that lets me stream my browser window to my tv. that's it, right?
<popey> kinda
<popey> it doesn't stream from your browser to the tv
<popey> it streams the content you're looking at on your device to your tv
<popey> useful if you dont have a smart tv
<popey> or even if you do have a smart TV and want something faster
<directhex> the number of things that sounds useful for is... small
<popey> e.g. I can be watching "telly" and have my android tablet on my lap, watching a youtube video, press a button in the YT app and the telly turns over automagically and starts playing the YT vid
<popey> meh
<ahayzen_> so a wireless HDMI cable?
<popey> youtube, netflix, iplayer are the main things I use it for
<popey> well, not quite because the content has to be online
<zmoylan-pi> i'm happy with pi for my micro pc usage
<ahayzen_> popey, does ubuntu touch work with chromecast? ;)
<popey> lulz
<popey> ahayzen_: if you make an app, sure â»
<popey> chop chop! :D
 * ahayzen_ gets to work lol
<popey> \o/
<directhex> time for bed.
<popey> wise
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> hey moo
<diplo> Morning MooDoo / MartijnVdS
<Boumboum> Hi everyone !
<diddledan> *yawn*
<Boumboum> I installed Ubuntu MATE 14.10, but I have a problem
<Boumboum> I can not to configure lightdm.conf in /etc/lightdm/ because it is not existing, I will want the auto login on startup
<Boumboum> Someone can help me please ?
<MooDoo> I'm sure that if someone can they will, but it's still early :D
<Boumboum> You MooDoo ? ^^
<MooDoo> i've no idea, i've never played with mate.
<MooDoo> sorry
<diddledan> people haven't got into work yet so they're probably busy until they sit down at their desk to procrastinate
<Boumboum> Thank you MooDoo
<Boumboum> Ok diddledan I will wait :)
<MooDoo> Boumboum: take a look at this, it might be in a different place the conf file - http://askubuntu.com/questions/451950/how-to-configure-lightdm-to-allow-manual-logins-in-ubuntu-14-04
<diplo> Boumboum, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LightDM has an entry for adding auto login
<Boumboum> lightdm.conf is not existing in /etc/lightdm
<MooDoo> is it this one The file to edit is now located in /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d, and is called: 50-ubuntu.conf
<MartijnVdS> Boumboum: does mate even use lightdm>
<MooDoo> read that page i sent you it might be relavent.
<Boumboum> Thank you MooDoo
<Myrtti> I'm getting a 'new' laptop next week \o/
<MartijnVdS> refurb?
<Myrtti> yeah http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-XPS-13-ULTRABOOK-9333-3-1ghz-i7-8GB-256SSD-1080p-FHD-Touch-Screen-WIN-8-1-/351203848832?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item51c5617280
<directhex> okay. black friday protip, you do not have long
<Boumboum> Thank you diplo also :-)
<diddledan> directhex, what did you miss?
<directhex> GAME sold out of their headline deal (xbone, 4 games, Â£5 xbl store credit) at midnight. in-store they are pre-selling a second stock delivery. stores are deserted this second, will not remain that way for long
<MartijnVdS> whoa kindles are cheap today
<diplo> I left the pub last night at 23:30, 1/4 mile queue to get in our local Game store and we live in a smallish town :/
<directhex> i wandered into GAME Banbury at 7:50am, the manager wandered out & said they could pre-sell 22 more bundles but they didn't even have the stock codes to run it through the tills, so had to hang around for 10 mins for them to work it out
<directhex> you *may* have success if you RUNDONTWALK to the store NOW
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: ubuntu mate does
<directhex> stores are *deserted*. it is not midnight, it is also not normal opening yet
<popey> \o/ ubuntu mate hilight â»
<ali1234> trouble with lightdm, auto-login is fairly broken anyway
<popey> Myrtti: they're nice!
<Myrtti> popey: I thought so too
<Myrtti> I've been looking for one for nearly two years
<Myrtti> last year I almost went for one, but then got a job with a work laptop
<popey> I covet Laura's one whenever I'm there
<Boumboum> I will be back !
<Myrtti> now the contract is ending, I need a laptop
<popey> I also had a look at the dell docking station earlier this week
<popey> bet that still doesn't work on Linux
<popey> ali1234: you knew something about those? display ports hanging off usb?
<knightwise> morning everyone
<ali1234> i don't know anything about them
<Myrtti> oh? so there's been a regression from Latitude times?
<popey> ok
<popey> Myrtti: I'm not talking about the proper docking stations, but the external brick with lots of ports in it
<popey> I recall people telling me Linux didn't support displays like that very well..
<popey> can't recall who it was though, might be fixed now of course
<ali1234> it doesn't
<ali1234> especially if you use some silly desktop that requires acceleration, because USB framebuffers never support it
<directhex> displaylink have 2 eras of chipset
<directhex> the usb2 one should be well supported on linux
<popey> "You have asked Firefox to connect securely to accessories.dell.com, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure."
<directhex> the usb3 one is not last i checked
<popey> "accessories.dell.com uses an invalid security certificate."
<MartijnVdS> invalid? how?
<MartijnVdS> did they forget to include the CA tree
<popey> https://imgur.com/ItrCZBi
<ali1234> assets.pokemon.com
<knightwise> ouch...
<ali1234> looks like CDN fail?
<MartijnVdS> looks like someone messed up their CDN
<knightwise> popey , do you know if the rumor is true that you can run ubuntu touch on the Oneplus ?
<diddledan> speaking of touch - the ml mentioned gold master being minted - does that mean it's "stable"?
<popey> knightwise: dunno if anyone has ported it to that device
<popey> would be nice to
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: optimism! :)
<popey> diddledan: it still has bugs
<knightwise> I just got mine yesterday
<popey> the gold master is just the one we are sending to the OEM for them to QA
<knightwise> amazing what you get for 300 bucks
<diddledan> aah
<popey> they will likely bounce it back and tell us they found bugs we didn't
<popey> which we expect
<MartijnVdS> "It crashed yo"
<popey> knightwise: yeah, marxjohnson has one too
<MartijnVdS> (that's what bug reports often look like here :( )
<popey> hah
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, I feel your pain
<popey> potentially it could be a good device to port to
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, do you get screenshots in msword documents, too? :-/
<popey> if I had a One Plus I'd give it a go
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yeah. Good thing we added a request-id to our error messages, so we can actually call up a stacktrace when we need it
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: and .. say .. which URL/method they were accessing at the time
<diddledan> nice
<popey> amusingly, mine crashed just now
<popey> well, crashed at 5am
<popey> http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/device-2014-11-28-090020.png
<diddledan> \o/
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it led to a new problem. Request-ID is a hex code. And they mistype them *A LOT*
<MartijnVdS> popey: cron.daily
<popey> heh
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: switch to base58check
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: hmm.. that might work
<MartijnVdS> People who work for local governments aren't the computer whizzes you'd hope them to be
<shauno> most people working for local governments aren't anything we'd hope them to be :/
<popey> no wai!
<diddledan> count yourself lucky you only deal with the locals
<diddledan> I often do stuff for the natinoals
 * awilkins used to work for a governmental agency and resembles that remark
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: they're worse in a different way... (50 audits of all kinds later)
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> "this tool makes viral images in seconds" <-- how can they know it's viral before it actually goes viral?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: they have it checked by antivirus, if it goes off, it's good
<awilkins> They have a virus in them that exploits a 0-day in IE ?
<diddledan> aah
<shauno> perhaps their script has hep-e
<diddledan> it really looks like a completely pointless "product", and they even have the gall to make it subscription: https://shareasimage.com/
 * popey adds http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-0A36407-Bluetooth-Mouse-4-ways/dp/B009AELU06 to his wishlist
<diddledan> "since using your AWESOME app, my 'shares' and 'likes' on Facebook + Twitter have gone up to the tune of 500%" <-- were they making and sharing images before and somehow the product magically made "better" ones?
<Boumboum> I'm back !
<diddledan> or are they comparing "no images at all" with "images by the product"
<Boumboum> MooDoo AND diplo : Good, it's work !
<Boumboum> I modified the file 60-lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf in /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.d/
<diplo> Best hard drives to go in my MicroServer - 4TB recommendations ?
<diplo> Need two
<diddledan> red
<diddledan> of the wd variety
<diplo> Red ? WD Red ?
<diplo> Blimey, they are pricey compared to others I've looked at
<knightwise> I have the red drives too in my Synology
<knightwise> they are pretty good !
<Boumboum> Have good day, see next time ! Bye everyone ^^
<knightwise> bye Boumboum
<diplo> I just think the prices have gone up since I looked last week, some of the drives I was looking at last week were Â£70~ now all Â£100+
<diddledan> diplo, black friday goes both ways :-p
<diplo> Got 2 x 2tb Hitachi ones in there currently that have been in for about 3-4 years permanently, they were Â£45 at the time
<diplo> It seems so diddledan :/
<Myrtti> ooh, there's three more of those XPS 13's now on ebay
<Myrtti> cool beans
<popey> you ordering one?
<knightwise> those are damn pretty laptops !
<Myrtti> popey: dsample did last night to my knowledge, for my Christmas present since I need a new laptop
<popey> heh
<popey> nice
<knightwise> dell doesnt make them anymore do they
<Myrtti> it's a bit on the higher end of the price range of what I was looking at but it looks to be a good machine, and good for me
<Myrtti> knightwise: sure they do
<knightwise> Myrtti I did some research on them and its a great machine for that price
<Myrtti> http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/xps-13-9333/fs
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Buy Nothing Day! :-D
<diddledan> JamesTait, that's not a real celebration!
<Myrtti> or http://www.dell.com/uk/p/xps-13-9333/pd?ref=PD_OC
<Myrtti> I'm not sure what's the difference really
<JamesTait> diddledan, my bank account disagrees. ;)
<Myrtti> but you can see the Ubuntu as an option too
<Myrtti> it's just not sold as developer edition
<Myrtti> anyway, I went with the refurb
<Myrtti> it comes with 1 year onsite anyway
<knightwise> are they a lot cheaper ?
<Myrtti> Â£1,149.00 vs the ebay price Â£819.99
<diddledan> o_O since when has a point-release (.1) of ubuntu been referred to as SP1?
<Myrtti> since Dell
<popey> indeed
<popey> I was at a Dell event on Tuesday
<popey> Many of the Dell sales people had not seen Ubuntu in years
<diddledan> I'm glad they at least put the 0 in 04
<popey> we demo'ed it on their XPS 18, and they were all "oooh! that's way nicer than the last time I looked"
<diddledan> I wince every time someone says 12.4
<directhex> JamesTait: too late. i bought something. I HAVE FAILED YOU.
<popey> What did you get?
<directhex> popey: xbone, 4 games, Â£299
<JamesTait> directhex, not you as well! :-P
<diddledan> that's a point - the dell is shipping with 12.04?! I get LTS and all but that's ancient news
<JamesTait> directhex, you could redeem yourself with your mono-fu. ;)
<diddledan> mono FTW?
<Myrtti> diddledan: yeah, it sucks. I'm stuck on it on my current laptop because upgrading has been blocked by Dell
<Myrtti> well, obviously I could override it but I don't want to
<JamesTait> diddledan, well, maybe... my eldest likes to play openBVE, which uses Mono, but is broken on Trusty, apparently due to some bug in libgdiplus; I want to make a minimal testcase to demonstrate the problem, but I don't know enough about Mono and/or C# to get started.
<diddledan> I'm wondering how difficult it would be to write an ubuntu touch app in mono
<diddledan> using mono-qt
<popey> I'm expecting a rev of the XPS 13 soon
<directhex> JamesTait: try mono-project mono repo
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'm kind of hoping for it
<MartijnVdS> I have a current-gen XPS12 (yay work), but my personal laptop is 5 years old and slowly dying and a Vaio
<directhex> JamesTait: working here on trusty
<directhex> JamesTait: with mono-project mono repo
<foobarry> my sqlite install doesn't show the .import command under .help, what's happened to it?
<popey> sqlite3?
<foobarry> woops, schoolboy error, thanks
<foobarry> assumed the default was 3
<JamesTait> directhex, that'd be a start. I'd prefer to figure out the bug in the Ubuntu package, but that'll get him going again (currently have the Saucy version of libgdiplus pinned, which also works).
<directhex> JamesTait: honestly, i have no idea
<JamesTait> directhex, you've already redeemed yourself, don't worry. :-P
<directhex> JamesTait: my primary focus is what i'm paid to do, which is the mono-project repo.
<popey> JamesTait: are there qml bindings for mono?
<popey> (does there need to be)?
<directhex> there are not, and any bindings for mono are awesome
<popey> could it not "just" use gles?
<JamesTait> directhex, for bonus marks, though, if you know of a good Hello World introduction....
<popey> +1
<ali1234> qml bindings for mono?
<popey> would be interesting to demo.
<popey> I know we have sdl2 working under mir.
<JamesTait> I see http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/gtksharp/hello-world/ but I'm not sure if that's the same thing.
<directhex> JamesTait: hello world on which toolkit?
 * JamesTait blinks. *whooosh* went the question as it passed over his head.
<ali1234> qml is essentially a qt javascript binding
<ali1234> you don't need to re-bind that to some other language, just use qt directly from mono
<popey> yeah, I probably went qt â»
<popey> *meant
<directhex> i'm not sure what the status of qt bindings is right now
<directhex> there have been a few, over the years
<directhex> the problem is binding c++ is hard
<directhex> binding c is easy
<ali1234> true
<directhex> there was a C qt wrapper which there were mono bindings for, but it was slooooooooooooooow
<ali1234> although the python-qt stuff is great
<ali1234> makes it look easy
<ali1234> no idea how they did it
<directhex> i am used to gtk, via mono
<directhex> gtk# is "native"
<ali1234> every mono binding i've seen was fairly awful, tbh
<directhex> it's a delight to use, especially designing custom widgets in MD then drag-and-dropping them into apps
<diddledan> directhex, binding c++ is hard - is that because c++ does weird things to function names in order to remain c-like?
<ali1234> and by mono i mean microsoft .net
<JamesTait> directhex, ultimately I want to be able to get to a small program like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9280876/
<directhex> diddledan: largely
<JamesTait> directhex, but I have no idea how to even structure that small piece of code, what files I need, or how to compile it.
<directhex> diddledan: also garbage collection is hard, and marshalling managed vs unmanaged objects
<JamesTait> directhex, so that's the level I'm at - if there's something that can get me over that, I can pick up the rest. It's just Java with a weird syntax, right? :-P
<ali1234> it's nowhere near as horrible as java
<JamesTait> ali1234, few things are. ;)
<MartijnVdS> well..
<MartijnVdS> I'd like you to meet government XSDs
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I think I probably already have.
<diddledan> XSDs are evil in of themselves
<diddledan> I never understood the idea that you use xml to describe xml
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I have libraries to cope with them. But for most XSDs/services they're "ok speed"
<diddledan> and to explain the xml that descrives xml you have a dtd which is xml
 * JamesTait worked on the Parliamentary library project years ago.
<MartijnVdS> government XSDs? Lots of waiting to generate writers/readers for all the different bits
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<diddledan> in not unrelated news to programming: qt 5.4 release candidate is out
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: JSONx
<diddledan> along with an rc of qt-creator 3.3
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, what's the x?
<diddledan> binary?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SS9H2Y_6.0.0/com.ibm.dp.xm.doc/json_jsonx.html
<MartijnVdS> JSONx is an IBMÂ® standard format to represent JSON as XML. The appliance converts JSON messages that are specified as JSON message type to JSONx. The appliance provides a style sheet that you can use to convert JSONx to JSON.
<diddledan> wtF?
<diddledan> that's .. wtf?
<foobarry> some people in my office type on the apple wireless keyboard, i've noticed they hit the keys *really* hard
<foobarry> on the other keyboards, other coleagues fingers float across keys
<diddledan> foobarry, I use the wired version, and I do too
<foobarry> the chiclet style seem really bad for you
<diddledan> foobarry, it's because they don't give much feedback so you whack them hard to get a response
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it's like talking on mobile phones -- you need to TALK LOUDLY because the audio has to go all the way to the cell tower first
<awilkins> Mechanical switches with clicks 4tw
<foobarry> they all seem to do it
<awilkins> Model M forever!  (also have a Cherry with clickity switches)
<foobarry> it sounds like they are writing angry emails all day
<diddledan> yeah, that sounds like how I type
<directhex> JamesTait: try http://paste.ubuntu.com/9280983/
<diddledan> I like to really whack the return key at times, too
<directhex> JamesTait: i intentionally haven't caught the exception - it's fatal and verbose without it, which is sorta what you want
 * JamesTait <3's his Microsoft Sculpt Mobile Bluetooth keyboard.
<directhex> JamesTait: mcs -r:System.Windows.Forms foo.cs; mono foo.exe
<davmor2> JamesTait: and what have you bought on buy nothing day?
 * JamesTait adds directhex to the beer debt list.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: http://beeroverip.org/
<JamesTait> Nothing, davmor2, obviously! I'm making a list to buy it all tomorrow instead. ;)
<MartijnVdS> I have this one: http://media.bestofmicro.com/microsoft-all-in-,3-8-431684-22.png
<MartijnVdS> (for emergencies)
<bashrc> keyboard wars?
<davmor2> JamesTait: can you actually afford all the beer you owe people?
<bashrc> free as in beer
<diddledan> this is why hermit lifestyle works well - you can offer all the beer you want as long as you don't actually meet anyone
<diddledan> bashrc, free beer?!
<foobarry> did someone say chromecast Â£18
<diddledan> foobarry, not me
<davmor2> diddledan: he does meet people though :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, in the same way most countries can afford their national debt, yes.
<diddledan> davmor2, see that's where he's going wrong
<JamesTait> diddledan, don't listen to him. I'm not allowed out of the house.
<diddledan> JamesTait, I have that rule, too - self imposed in my case ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Wow. vaapi makes it possible to actually do useful things on an atom
<davmor2> JamesTait: apart from sprints and oggcamp oh where you meet all the people you promise beer ;)
<foobarry> JamesTait isn't a bot?
 * JamesTait beeps
<foobarry> i thought it was just a friendly name given the the greeting bot :D
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> only jkinh
<davmor2> foobarry: no JamesTait is a poor imitation of a bot, but does do great morning greetings which is why we love him
<JamesTait> I'm not sure whether to be offended or honoured. :-P
<foobarry> i would have automated that JamesTait years ago
<foobarry> but then ubuntu-uk wouldn't be the same
<foobarry> and people would discover the apparent friendly human greeting when it goes wrong and says, morning friends, happy $NULL day
<foobarry> leading to an eventual collapse of human society
<foobarry> if that hasn't already happened in N london already
<JamesTait> See. I provide a valuable service.
<foobarry> yes, a human face in a robot world of self service tills and pay at the pump petrol
<foobarry> even ubuntu-in come here now in search of friendly faces
<MooDoo> no one friendly in here
<MooDoo> :PD:
<JamesTait> Does anyone else get this problem where Update Manager launches itself in the background (security updates, most likely) but you can't alt-tab to it and have to quit it from the launcher and launch it manually?
<diddledan> JamesTait, yes
<diddledan> JamesTait, it usually happens overnight
<diddledan> for me
<JamesTait> diddledan, I was going to suggest that, but wasn't sure if I was making that bit up. ;)
<diddledan> I get up in the morning to find it's opened while I was in bed but I can't focus it
<JamesTait> Exactly.
<JamesTait> Is there a bug for that?
<diddledan> I can't remember whether I found one or filed one or not
<diddledan> let me hunt
<popey> sounds like a bamf bug
<davmor2> JamesTait: yes and I don't leave my pc on over night so it isn't that
<JamesTait> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/993837 ?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 993837 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Can't open Update Manager window after a while" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<diddledan> JamesTait, that looks similar, yes
 * JamesTait metoos
<diddledan> metood too
<diddledan> I added tags for both trusty and utopic - because I've seen it in both
<JamesTait> Oh, and it was only wobbling its icon at me to tell me I need to reboot. Oh well.
<diddledan> maybe that'll get a bit more attention
<JamesTait> diddledan, good plan.
<diplo> Anyone use syncthing on Android phone ?
<awilkins> Syncthing do block level syncing?
<diplo> yep
<diplo> Getting closer to my issue now
<diddledan> did someone die?
<diddledan> *silence*
<diddledan> if someone actually has died, I apologise
<davmor2> diddledan: no everyone is too busy buying stuff, it's black friday
<diddledan> I've not been paid yet
<foobarry> how many tv's does a chav need?
<shauno> I feel so dull.  I bought heating oil.
<foobarry> i bought a humbrol workstation
<foobarry> not as exctigin as it sounds. its a piece of moulded plastic
<diddledan> foobarry, is that a trick question?
<foobarry> screen size is relative to size of credit debt
<brobostigon> /names/win 13
<foobarry> ERROR (dkms apport): kernel package linux-headers-3.13.0-40-generic is not supported
<foobarry> virtualbox no likey
<foobarry> Samsung 840 EVO 1TB 2.5-inch Basic SATA Solid State Drive Â£240
<diddledan> lol @ foreign-accented lady at hsbc - she said my home address as "winkley berry"
<diddledan> (it's spelt winklebury)
<foobarry> crinkley bottom?
<diddledan> foobarry, ?! 1TB?!
<diddledan> foobarry, I WANT!
<foobarry> amazon lightning deals, just started 3 mins ago
<diddledan> I've got a crinkly bottom
<foobarry> oh, they all went already
<diddledan> grr
<foobarry> heh
<diplo> Glad I didn't order my kids game earlier this morning, just found it Â£14 cheaper!
<diplo> From Â£59 down to Â£27 \o/ and earlier price of Â£40 ish
<diplo> But the Argos site is straining under the load :/
<popey> foobarry: waaaat
<popey> foobarry: where?
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E3W16OU/ref=gb1h_img_c-3_2147_d3685d84?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=0RXYDRRK0PM4JKBA0NMF&pf_rd_i=161428031&pf_rd_p=560262147
<foobarry> coulda bagged some but i didn't know anyone wanted them
<foobarry> oh, there's some free
<foobarry> GO GO GO
<foobarry> diddledan:
<foobarry> backets are expiring
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> damn you foobarry
<foobarry> doesn't particular interest me
<foobarry> and i just dropped Â£35k on extra 18m2 in my house :(
<diddledan> Your Amazon.co.uk order of "Samsung 840 EVO 1TB..."
<diddledan> foobarry, you suck!
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> popey has gone quiet too
<diddledan> foobarry, quit making me buy things
<popey> hah
<popey> nah, I am resisting
<foobarry> i am also reisting urge to buy scalextric sets
<foobarry> i will succumb another year though
<foobarry> as i want to play ont he digital version
<diddledan> wow they've dropped to only 75% claimed now
<foobarry> which is 15mins after the initial opening, as baskets have expired
<foobarry> a lot of people grab first and look later ;)
<diplo> Can any of the UK sites handle traffic!
<diplo> Queue for currys/argos/tescos
<shauno> how british.  needs to be on steam - Queue Simulator 2014
<popey> *queue* for a *website*
<popey> yes, ridiculous
<davmor2> popey: you're resisting buying stuff?  pfffff I find that hard to believe
<popey> i know right!?
<davmor2> popey: have you seen the Game website?
<diplo> 34 mins for Currys, was an hour
<diplo> Argos let me add to basket and then stuck with overloaded again
<diplo> hah davmor2 that's down as well
<davmor2> popey: currently a holding page, been down since midnight
<foobarry> this is gonna backfire in future
<popey> haha
<foobarry> nobody will do chrimbo shopping until 28 nov
<popey> http://vimeo.com/113073357 via directhex
<shauno> lol, 'asda' just seems out of place in that sentence
<diplo> I'm just going to drive into town I think
<diddledan> shauno, chavs
<shauno> nah.  I think it's half intentional.  look at all the cameramen lined up in the store waiting to watch
<shauno> it's all set up like the running of the bulls, and then we blame the bulls
<foobarry> i love it when people turn up to the store at midnight and say "its madness" as if they aren't mad at all, just everybody else
<directhex> shauno: asda invited the press, so they could demonstrate their well-organised "safe excitement"
<directhex> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic sums up most of these Black Friday deals (especially Asda's cheap TVs) wonderfully
<popey> heh
<diplo> rah got through and reserved \o/
<Myrtti> I have to say, I can't wait to update from spinning rust to SSD
<Myrtti> most of the time my computer seems to grind to a halt when the disk is doing spinny spinny
<Myrtti> like right now
<diddledan> Myrtti, my work laptop is like that
<Myrtti> diddledan: sad thing is, this is a year old laptop.
<diddledan> I swear it never used to be this bad
<Myrtti> then again, they're upgrading all the laptops to have SSD
<shauno> I can't be the only one who's considered sneaking a spare ssd into the work lappy :/
<Myrtti> I just haven't bothered since it's not a one day job for me and I knew that I'll have to return the laptop soon anyway
<awilkins> Myrtti, I've got bcache going on the corporate issue laptop
<awilkins> Myrtti, 32GB mSATA SSD + 750GB of rust
<awilkins> It's super spiffy quick
<popey> do you have to dedicate the ssd to bcache?
<popey> or can you give over a bit of the disk to bcache?
<awilkins> popey, You can give it a partition
<awilkins> Any block device works I think
<popey> ah
<popey> ta
<awilkins> I found a good tutorial
<Myrtti> well I'm giving this away in a few weeks so it's all moot
<Myrtti> and XPS 13 \o/
<awilkins> He put /efi and /boot on the SSD but mine are on the rust
<MartijnVdS> I installed Ubuntu on the 4GB eMMC in a NUC (DE3815TYKHE)
<awilkins> http://www.wdong.org/wordpress/blog/2014/05/28/installing-ubuntu-14-04-to-bcache/
<MartijnVdS> .. turns out Ubuntu Server doesn't come with the sdhci-pci driver (I had to get the .ko + its deps out of the linux-image-extra deb and insmod them before doing the partition stuff)
<Laney> new CAMRA card
<Laney> it's an exciting day!
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> anyone know how to map "ata1.02" in dmesg to actual drive serial number?
<MartijnVdS> I'd go counting ports on the SATA controller
<halt> Hi All, I try to find out where the file browser "Connect to a server" dialogue store the history ( I have few record I whould like to delete )
<popey> halt: ~/.config/nautilus/servers
<halt> popey: Cool thanks I have a look
<popey> I _think_
<popey> ooh, lsscsi
<halt> popey: That's the one managed to clear it out thanks.
<popey> Great!
<davmor2> popey: I just saw the lsscsi and thought that's not how you spell irssi ;)
 * popey looks at these two disks...
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9283093/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/9283094/
<popey> trying to figure out which one of them is http://paste.ubuntu.com/9283050/
<popey> the one with the errors
<awilkins> popey, Looks like the one mounted on /dev/sdg
<awilkins> But no idea which one of the former pages that is
<MartijnVdS> popey: my machine has entries for both scsi and ata for the same drive, doesn't yours?
<MartijnVdS> [    1.850747] ata1.00: ATA-9: SAMSUNG SSD PM841 mSATA 256GB, DXT43D0Q, max UDMA/133
<MartijnVdS> [    1.851696] scsi 0:0:0:0: Direct-Access     ATA      SAMSUNG SSD PM84 3D0Q PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
<awilkins> popey, hdparm -i /dev/sdg  ?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9283261/
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9283274/ is grepping for scsi in the kern.log
<popey> (dmesg has rolled round with all these ata errors)
<awilkins> Reckon it's probably that one then : http://paste.ubuntu.com/9283094/
<popey> what makes you say that?
<awilkins> Errors are reporting on ATA1.02
<awilkins> /dev/sdg is [0:2:0:0]
<awilkins> /dev/sdg has the serial number ending 702
<awilkins> Which matches the serial on the second page
<awilkins> Model matches
<MartijnVdS> popey: you can look around in /sys/class/ata_port/ata1/ -- it should have a "host" directory which contains "target" directories
<MartijnVdS> those target dirs = SCSI device numbers
<popey> aha!
<MartijnVdS> ata*
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://serverfault.com/questions/242067/which-hard-drive-corresponds-to-ata1-00-and-ata12-00 :)
<popey> thats where I discovered lsscsi â»
<popey> ok, will yank all the disks out in a bit and find the 702 one.
<diddledan> lol @ infrastructure coming out of the wazoo
<popey> â»
<diddledan> I use that term, too :-p
<popey> haha
<diddledan> sometimes it takes the variant of "up the wazoo"
<diddledan> I expect most of the folks that run black friday deals are hosting extra capacity with amazon anyway. amazon pretty much runs the entire internet
<popey> \o/ disk yanked
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> popey: testing your btrfs again? :)
<diplo> Anyone know what the LG G2 is like ? Â£150 on Vodafone today
<MartijnVdS> diplo: it's nexus 5-y apparently
<diplo> I'm looking at paying Â£150 for a second hand nexus 5 :/
<popey> gya
<directhex> got my xbone \o/
<popey> \o/
<MartijnVdS> diplo: (also, you're outputting Latin1 somehow?)
<diplo>  ?
<popey> so now I'm gonna have to do a btrfs scrub & balance and buy a new disk to replace this one
<popey> might have to get a bigger one
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72heZxt2RlU
<diddledan> now I see why there's moaning about ubisoft and the game (assassins creed: unity)
<diddledan> but, I lol'd
<davmor2> popey: quick while the black friday sale is still on find one cheap ;)
<Azelphur> popey: drives? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J0O5R2I/#customerReviews
<Azelphur> cheap drives \o/
<diddledan> Azelphur, we're in the UK
<diddledan> Azelphur, we don't do $
<Azelphur> diddledan: me too, worth the effort.
<Azelphur> for that price
<diddledan> except it'll attract import duty
<MartijnVdS> Â£Â£Â£
<diddledan> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3RQs-NCcAEKUV8.png
<awilkins> Woo, syncthing works
<awilkins> At least for the trivial case of a text file that says "CAT POOPIES"
<diddledan> and they said armageddon was a myth
<diplo> awilkins, seems to work well for me
<diplo> Got it syncing Calibre library from 4 machines, my phone as well and  photos amongst other things
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, You mean you are seeing the two-char Â£ sign?
<Azelphur> Anyone on the lookout for a budget phone, Android one is hitting Amazon Black friday sales
<Azelphur> Â£130 now, gonna be cheap as hell for a really nice phone.
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Doesn't that mean your client doesn't support unicode properly? (like Slashdot?)
<awilkins> Azelphur, You mean the Karbonn Sparkle V ?
<Azelphur> awilkins: yup
<awilkins> Â£99 according to the Telegraph
<Azelphur> yea, good deal.
<diplo> Azelphur, yeah I am :)
<Azelphur> diplo: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00OCHDUE0
<Azelphur> goes on sale at 3:40pm
<diddledan> what's "android one"?
<Azelphur> diddledan: it's a new initiative by google to produce low power, always updated phones.
<diddledan> aah
<diplo> http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/shop/pay-as-you-go/lg-g2-payg/sku84565-black
<Azelphur> so it's on 4.4 now but guaranteed to be supported on the latest version of Android for 2 years.
<diplo> looking at getting that
<diddledan> I want an ubuntu phone
<popey> me too!
<Azelphur> diplo: this is much cheaper, but the LG is better.
<diplo> Azelphur, Â£20 more and you get a lot more powerful one
<Azelphur> diplo: no, Â£130 is the before-sale price
<diplo> ah right
<Azelphur> at 3:40 that price is gonna drop like a stone
<diplo> Not sure on that, will look at the price first though
<diddledan> does it run ubuntu?
<Azelphur> diplo: http://www.amazon.co.uk/discounts-offers-pc-electronics/b/ref=amb_link_174079207_11?ie=UTF8&node=590987031&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=left-3&pf_rd_r=037G55ZPSE18WMWF5XRF&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=551464927&pf_rd_i=161428031
<Azelphur> diplo: watch it on that page, as soon as it becomes available hit add to basket, you get 15 minutes to decide.
<Azelphur> the stock will go real fast, so have your finger on the button. :)
<zmoylan-pi> it's like some terrible laggy video game :-)
<Azelphur> indeed :D
<diplo> ta
<awilkins> Why did we have to import Black Friday from the US anyway
<diddledan> awilkins, because thanksgiving
<awilkins> It is NOT turkey day here yet
<bashrc> it's based on a holiday we don't even have
<diddledan> what are they giving thanks for anyway?
<diddledan> is it anti-british?
<awilkins> Grr. Commercial parasitism
 * bashrc thinks everyone should go shopping on Polar Bear day
<awilkins> I think so, acually
<Azelphur> awilkins: my response is "oooo Â£88 5TB hard drives"
<awilkins> Isn't thanksgiving for the gifts from the Native Americans to the Pilgrim Fathers or something
<bashrc> yes, afaik it's not the same as independence day
<awilkins> Surely Black Friday should be the thanksgiving for the gifts the European immigrants gave to the Natvie americans
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it was a reminder to watch 'planes, trains and automobiles' ;-)
<awilkins> e.g. - people should spread smallpox with blankets
<awilkins> And buy each others land for a few beads and a bottle of whiskey
<diddledan> awilkins, it looks, according to wiki, to be their equivalent of our "harvest festival"
<diddledan> which only schoolkids really do
<daftykins> oh lawd i remember that
<daftykins> for some reason we'd box up food and give it to OAPs at... retirement homes
 * diddledan hums: cauliflower's fluffy, and cabbage is green
<daftykins> are said homes not feeding them?
<daftykins> it was very misleading
<Azelphur> now the only question, should I buy one or two 5TB drives :P
<diddledan> Azelphur, external?
<Azelphur> external but I'm just gonna take them out of the box.
 * bashrc wonders if there is a command line day
<diddledan> lol
<Azelphur> they are going in my micro server
<awilkins> TWO
<awilkins> Mirror array
<bashrc> nice
<awilkins> or : FIVE
<Azelphur> I don't like mirror, I rsnapshot
<Azelphur> haha
<awilkins> Ok, maybe four
<awilkins> RAID 5 array
<awilkins> My old TV server has had 1TB in it as long as I can remember (as two disks
<awilkins> I'm impressed by their longevity
<foobarry> what does rsnapshot offer over standard rsync?
<awilkins> Must have been spinning a substantial fraction of the last 10 years
<zmoylan-pi> shhh, mentioning their existance is asking for a failure :-)
<Azelphur> foobarry: automatic revisions and fancy mounting/linking and such shenanigans
<Azelphur> it's better for incremental backups.
<awilkins> Hah, new laptop has such a beefy battery it considers 70 minutes remaining runtime a red warning :-)
<Azelphur> but, rsnapshot /is/ rsync (at least, it uses it)
<daftykins> awilkins: heh what kind? what was the overall prediction at 100%?
<awilkins> daftykins, It's a zBook 15
<awilkins> 100% prediction still varies a lot
<awilkins> The predicted runtime just went up 2 minutes
<awilkins> It's usually around 4-5 hours
<awilkins> Currently running 26% and runtime 72 minutes
<awilkins> So should have a runtime of 276 minutes which is around 4:30
<awilkins> This thing has more RAM and CPU grunt than my main desktop
<foobarry> i thought chrome was supopsed to be special
<foobarry> and not lockup the whole browser, and crash?
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> pfft chrome is totally overrated
<zmoylan-pi> all browsers take time at the top of the crashiest list.  except lynx :-)
<popey> been running firefox for 3 weeks now
<popey> with no flash and the cisco h264 code disabled
<popey> not crashed once since doing that
<foobarry> i think evernote killed my chrome
<foobarry> task amanger said no tabs were using any cpu
<foobarry> but that was just before if disppeared in a puff of smoke after 100% usage
<Azelphur> diplo: ping, 3 minutes :)
<diplo> ta, got it on screen still 20s
<Azelphur> don't forget, add it to your basket straight away then think about it :)
<diplo> Â£99
<diddledan> Â£99
<diplo> \o/
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> 85% claimed xD
<Azelphur> annnd gone
<Azelphur> diplo: whatcha reckon, gonna get it? :)
<diplo> nah
<Azelphur> hehe
<diplo> Rather spend the  Â£50 extra and get the G2 I think, a lot more for the money
<Resupine> hello
<Azelphur> suppose so :)
<diplo> Just making sure they have one in store ( waiting a call back ) and pop down tomorrow
<Resupine> does anyone know how an easy way to copy desktop icons onto desktop pleazzz
<Resupine> ubuntu 14.4
<diddledan> >.<
<Azelphur> Resupine: ...drag and drop?
<diplo> Can't say I know how, can't remember the last time I launched anything from the desktop
<diddledan> there's an extra digit missing, Resupine !
<Resupine> oh sorry!
<Azelphur> xD
<diddledan> hint, 4 != 04
<Resupine> oh i meant 14.04.
<Azelphur> I got me a Logitech Z323 speaker system for Â£21
<Azelphur> :D
<diddledan> I get irked by that so often
<Resupine> if i drag and drop wont i lose the icons on the desktop please correct me if i am wrong.
<daftykins> diddledan: same
<daftykins> diddledan: not sure what this ubunut i keep hearing about is, either
<diddledan> daftykins, there's also the umbunto
<daftykins> do they drink it in the jungle?
<foobarry> the congo
<davmor2> Resupine: Drag them to the desktop?
<Resupine> i will try that thanks.
<davmor2> daftykins: Ubuntu Do-nuts pretty obvious really :)
<diddledan> .next
<diddledan> !next
<diddledan> bah
<awilkins> Ubuntu should totally rip off the Um-bongo commercial
<diddledan> that works in #wordpress
<daftykins> =]
<foobarry> its a bit racist
<daftykins> awilkins: :D yesh
<awilkins> "Ubuntu, Ubuntu, they use it in the ... datacentre..."
<Azelphur> I keep getting screwed over on sound systems for my TV :(
<Azelphur> I've missed 2 sound bars and a 5.1 cinema system.
<Azelphur> tried to buy each one and got beat lol
<davmor2> awilkins: Adam Sweet did that and his website was investigated by the Company behind it
<foobarry> they use it in the cloud yo
<daftykins> Azelphur: doh!
<daftykins> a friend email'd me about the 1TB Samsung SSD today
<Azelphur> yea, grumble grumble :P
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, I was tempted but opted not to get it.
<diddledan> ops
<diddledan> oops*
<davmor2> awilkins: Way down deep in the middle of the Jungle they make a distro and they call it Ubuntu
<awilkins> Wonder if there are figures on the lost productivity due to Black Friday shopping
<awilkins> "The London Urban Jungle" (Canonical HQ being Canary Wharf. no?)
<davmor2> awilkins: there is productivity on black friday?
<zmoylan-pi> for security money transfer companies
<diplo> Well my town centre was rammed today, so either lots of people taking day off as holiday or a lot of people off on sickies :)
<zmoylan-pi> the alternative is to try and go shopping on the weekend a few weeks before crimbo? :-)
<popey> meh
<popey> i shop on xmas eve
<popey> I do every year, in London. It's all fine.
<foobarry> why would you?
<zmoylan-pi> masochism?
<foobarry> surely shop one month earlier and get stuff delivered
<popey> because i like the christmas lights
<popey> and wandering around shops when it's quiet
<popey> there is literally _nobody_ around
<popey> I have never queued at the counter on xmas eve
<popey> I also take the kids with me as a little treat, they love it.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i think the local town lights get switched on tomorrow
<davmor2> popey: wow London is different to Wolverhampton,  you can't get in a shop on christmas eve here
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jd15dxamvgrwl9o/IMG_20141125_212107.jpg?dl=0
<foobarry> i used to go up oxford street on 23rd december, it was usually quite mental
<daftykins> you can see the unlit frames up
<popey> davmor2: at 8am?
<popey> I usually leave home around 6:30-7am, and have breakfast then wander round the empty shops just as they open
<davmor2> popey: starting at midnight right the way through till the shops shut
<popey> nah, oxford street the shops aren't open at midnight on xmas eve/day
<davmor2> popey: we went to Adsa for the CHristmas Veg the one year at 4a.m the place was heaving
<popey> 4am on xmas morning!?
<popey> you northerners are proper mental
<davmor2> popey: no xmas eve
<popey> 4am is bed time
<popey> ahhh
<popey> still mad â»
<davmor2> indeed but we thought it would be quiet
<davmor2> no such luck
<popey> hehe
<popey> https://store.cardsagainsthumanity.com/
<popey> "0% of proceeds will go to Children in Need."
<popey> made me chuckle
<davmor2> popey:  nice :)
<davmor2> I like the outmoded line too
<ujjain> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/lg-g-pad-8-0-tablet-qualcomm-snapdragon-android-8-0-wi-fi-16gb-black-99-95-john-2064603 < this seems a good deal
<ujjain> but then again, the hudl2 seems better
<ujjain> I would like to get a nice tablet. I just missed out on the Vodafone LG G2, because of payment issues
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOVFvcNfvE
<diplo> ujjain, says the deal is on till Dec 1st
<diplo> In store as well
<popey> ujjain: 1280x800 vs hudl2 1920x1200
<zmoylan-pi> and your eyesight it 20/20 or better :-)
<Azelphur> woot, got the sound bar I wanted
<Azelphur> managed to find an alternate store with it still in stock at the discounted price :)
<foobarry> i just watched the phantom menace teaser trailer to compare the new trailer
<ali1234> and what was the result?
<daftykins> that foobarry always leaving us in suspense!
<diddledan> there's nothing wrong with being in suspenders
<daftykins> diddledan: as it's the weekend, you're right
<zmoylan-pi> let's do the timewarp again! \o/
<zmoylan-pi> i love twitter. 'probably not a good sign that the final hobbit trailer runs for 1.5 hours' :-)
<foobarry> i remembered that the ep1 trailer was awesome
<foobarry> but mainly because nobody had broadband in 1998 and i downloaded the video onto a cd at work and people came round my house to see it
<popey> hah
<popey> I remember going round someone's house to watch the Thriller video on Channel 4 when it first aired
<foobarry> first song i ever heard on a sony walkman was thriller
<foobarry> well it was the intro
<popey> Mine was Our House by Madness
<foobarry> good song
<popey> on a compilation tape
<popey> me and my brother got walkmans (not sony ones) for xmas
<foobarry> yeah i got a walkman and now5
<zmoylan-pi> i think i still have the batman fan flic teaser that we downloaded as we had one of the first adsl in ireland at work and giving out copies at gaming meetup in city centre as well as playing on laptop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOB13T6Zmh8
<foobarry> my sister just put a video of krazy kong grandstand game and watch game on facebook
<popey> was odd, my walkman had a "talk" button with a microphone in the player, so in theory if you're engrossed in music someone could press that to talk to you rather than stop the music
<foobarry> i got a white walkman and it had a problem
<popey> when i reality it was just a way to annoy me by pressing the button and shouting, it would get amplified into my ears
<zmoylan-pi> so a renamed pause button?
<foobarry> got returned and a red one came back
<popey> no
<popey> it didnt pause
<foobarry> the alan sugar era of crap electronics
<popey> it semi-muted the audio from the tape and engaged the microphone
<popey> yeah
<foobarry> sugar is a numpty
<foobarry> a rude one
<foobarry> turns out i am also a numpty when it comes to buying wooden flooring
<popey> !
<foobarry> which is what i am trying to do no
<foobarry> w
<foobarry> but i got distracted by star wars
<foobarry> the first film i saw at the cinema was epv5, empire s. back. in 1980. i was 5
<foobarry> next year ep7 is released. my son will be 5
<foobarry> if he wants to go i will take him
<foobarry> he alreayd loves star wars but doesn't really know what it is
<zmoylan-pi> translation: you're bringing him as 'he' wants to go? :-)
<foobarry> we'll see
<foobarry> its a yaer away
<foobarry> i'm hoping shaun the sheep film doesn't disappoint either, but we might just get the dvd
<zmoylan-pi> a few weekend star wars marathons, a few lego star wars lego sets... :-D
<foobarry> he would be sad if he grew up and found out he could have gone to star wars but didnt go
<foobarry> he would say, dad why didn't you make me?
<zmoylan-pi> i don't really enjoy the cinema, though if the rumour that they're bringing 2001 back to the big screen i'll go and see that.
<foobarry> http://vimeo.com/112681885#at=70
<foobarry> seen the chernobyl vid?
<zmoylan-pi> for sale:1 drone, slightly radioactive
<popey> nice
<popey> amazon how the nature reclaims
<foobarry> used to drive past an abandoned hackney school on the train over 10yrs
<foobarry> the trees grew through the playground
<popey> the thing at 2 mins 29 ish
<popey> amazing that still has colour on it
<diddledan> that's really atmosp[heric
<diddledan> in a post-apocalytic way
<rtyuio> hello there ?
<rtyuio> anyone tried nomachine
<rtyuio> 4 on windows and ubuntu as guest ?
<popey> Hello rtyuio
<popey> I haven't
<foobarry> even more amazing how egypts treasures are presevered
<ali1234> popey: the city was built for the nuclear plant so nothing there is over 50 years old
<ali1234> that's why the mural has not faded yet
<foobarry> the top gear episode was good too
<popey> I realise I may be in the minority, but I really like Citizen Khan on BBC1
<foobarry> i just looked at the dailymail sidebar of shame
<foobarry> i didn't click on anything but still feel dirty
<zmoylan-pi> everyone has a tv show or movie they like that most others think is terrible
<foobarry> i wonder what cheesy film i like
<rtyuio> i mean what package need to install on the guest machine to communicate with nomachine client ?
<zmoylan-pi> i like hackers, payback
<foobarry> rtyuio: can you explain what OS is on the server, and what OS is the client
<foobarry> i use x2go and freenx
<foobarry> nomachine went a bit non-free and Â£
<rtyuio> nomachine client installed on windows 7
<rtyuio> the remote server i would like to connect with nomachine is : ubuntu 14.4
<foobarry> ok
<foobarry> have you installed the nomachine server app on the ubuntu server?
<rtyuio> i installed the package
<rtyuio> i got this error : http://paste.ubuntu.com/9288488/
<foobarry> are the spaces just the copy paste fail, or the spaces in the error too?
<foobarry> between trusty and main
<rtyuio> i don't get ?
<foobarry> ok, 12.04 is the last distro in that ppa
<foobarry> http://ppa.launchpad.net/freenx-team/ppa/ubuntu/dists/
<foobarry> see there. no trusty release for freenx in that repo
<rtyuio> wait
<foobarry> also, you are doing freenx or nomachine?
<rtyuio> Ubuntu 14.04.1 LTS \n \l
<rtyuio> this is my remote server
<rtyuio> nomachine on windows 7
<rtyuio> as client
<rtyuio> i would like to connect my ubuntu remote server
<foobarry> nomachine client connecting to freenx server?
<rtyuio> i tried with  ssh acccess on nomachine 4
<rtyuio> not working
<rtyuio> so after googling i installed freenx
<rtyuio> and seems the package not properly installed
<foobarry> correct, freenx got discontinued
<rtyuio> i got that error when i aptÂ§get update
<foobarry> so you won't find it in the repo for your version of ubuntu
<foobarry> however...
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/466309/freenx-server-installation-on-ubuntu-14-04-trusty
<rtyuio> so tell me what i have to do ?
<foobarry> suggests x2go
<foobarry> and i also use x2go
<foobarry> and find it good, except the client is not as good
<foobarry> you might be able to find a freenx build for trusty
<rtyuio> i also tried x2go
<foobarry> or try the proper nomachine app
<rtyuio> how the package called ?
<foobarry> https://www.nomachine.com/getting-started-with-nomachine
<foobarry> use nomachine client with nomachine
<foobarry> x2go won't work with nomachine client
<rtyuio> ok let me check if it works
<ali1234> belkin wemo is on an amazon deal tomorrow
<ali1234> it's a wifi controlled mains socket
<shauno> that's what I've got on my espresso machine.  nowt really wrong with it, but the api is a steaming pile of
<Nathan__> what does cd .. mean
<zmoylan-pi> the espresso isn't a steaming... :-)
<shauno> Nathan__: ".." is the directory below the current one.  so it's like 'go back'
<ali1234> above!
<Nathan__> what does cd /ect do
<zmoylan-pi> Change Directory to directort above current one
<shauno> above?
<diddledan> root is the top, you descend the tree
<ali1234> yes
<shauno> I dunno what trees look like there, but the roots are at the bottom here ;)
<ali1234> i know trees have the root at the bottom
<ali1234> but file systems don't
<zmoylan-pi> if you are in /media/usbdrive and type cd .. it will go to /media
<ali1234> current directory is more like a stack than a tree, and the last item is on the top of the stack
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<ali1234> cd .. pops it...
<ali1234> besides real trees branch out in both directions
<ali1234> the more i think about it the more weird it seems that subdirectories are "below" the parent
<diddledan> the hint is in the prefix: sub-directory
<diddledan> sub = below
<ali1234> ah good point
<ali1234> i wonder if it is different in other cultures?
<diddledan> otherwise it would be super-directory, which would mean the child contains the root!?!
<ali1234> yeah, sub can also mean "part of"
<ali1234> but, when you file something, you file it "under" the category
<diddledan> that's not a "but" - it's an "that explains"
<ali1234> it doesn't explain it
<ali1234> it's just an arbitrary language thing
<diddledan> if sub is sub then obviously you file something "under"
<diddledan> whenever something is conceptually inside another then it is a sub
<diddledan> that's how English/Latin/Greek works
<ali1234> yes, but whyyyyyyy?
<ali1234> you also have "under a roof" which basically means "inside a building"
<diddledan> which is sub
<ali1234> so my question still remains: in other cultures, are subdirectories above the root?
<intrbiz> but, given the context, isn't root used more along the lines of: source, or origin
<ali1234> yes
<intrbiz> so applying a physical direction is somewhat or a misnomer
<ali1234> yes but people think spacially
<diddledan> it's more like a river than a tree
<diddledan> source - delta - estuary
<ali1234> maybe there's a culture where the directory tree isn't considered spacial at all
<intrbiz> well, a tree actually branches out above and below the trunk
<ali1234> ys, i already pointed that out :)
<intrbiz> :)
<intrbiz> often you find tree diagrams drawn left to right too
<ali1234> i've never seen one drawn with the root at the bottom
<intrbiz> nor me to be fair
<ali1234> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=parent+directory+icon&safe=off&client=ubuntu&hs=Csq&channel=fs&gl=uk&biw=1920&bih=996&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=r_t4VIivItXsaImEgtgP&ved=0CCAQsAQ
<ali1234> lots of up arrows there
<ali1234> so, is that universal? or are people from non-latin cultures going to have trouble understanding it?
<intrbiz> yeh, I'd tend to think of ascending into the parent directory and descending into a child directory
<ali1234> some of those icons, the arrow goes right to left for a bit, then up
<ali1234> but then there's one where it goes left to right, then up
<intrbiz> a similar question could be, do RTL languages have a tree draw right to left?
<diddledan> this is the stuff of voodoo and witchcraft: http://gridstylesheets.org/
<ali1234> "Why is the trivial task of centering an element with CSS so obtusely complex?" <- i wish i knew
<diddledan> ooh, just got some action on the update manager bug we mentioned earlier (first thing this morning): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/993837
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 993837 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Can't open Update Manager window after a while" [High,Confirmed]
<diddledan> it is now "high" importance
<popey> Alberto is on the bug team
<daftykins> that's a bit of a simple one
<popey> not sure who looks after update manager
<popey> daftykins: next time it happens can you ping me when it's in that state?
<daftykins> err what are we referring to?
<popey> the bug above
<daftykins> i don't even use ubuntu desktop, sir
<diddledan> just checked my other system. it's popped-up but is accessible - I hit remind me later to hopefully get it to trigger the bug some time later
<popey> sorry, mistab
<popey> meant diddledan
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-29
<daftykins> *nod*
<bigcalm> I'm trying to get an openvpn connection working from my hotel connection to my openwrt router at home. Is there a way to work out why it's not connecting?
<bigcalm> This is from syslog on my laptop: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9290346/
<daftykins> bigcalm: wouldn't an SSH proxy be enough?
<daftykins> it says no verification methods enabled
<daftykins> seems serious to me
<intrbiz> bigcalm: try setting verb 4
<intrbiz> to get verbose logging
<intrbiz> (chris has spent most of this week build OpenVPN servers for people)
<bigcalm> Oops, I hadn't finished setting up the server on openwrt
<intrbiz> usually OpenVPN not connecting is caused by: mismatched cipher / HMAC
<daftykins> :D
<bigcalm> daftykins: a proxy might be enough. But I want to get an openvpn tunnel working :D
<daftykins> hehe
<bigcalm> Following: http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/vpn.openvpn
<intrbiz> bigcalm: have you generated all the certs you need?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: yes
<intrbiz> bigcalm: this is my server config: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9290415/
<bigcalm> intrbiz: might be needed later. Ta
<bigcalm> Grumble, the tun0 interface is nt being brought up
<bigcalm> Maybe after 2 glasses of red isn't the best time to do this
<intrbiz> bigcalm: client config is along the lines of: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9290713/
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you can manually create the tun interface
<intrbiz> remember you also need to add firewall rules for the tun interface
<bigcalm> Unless it's not meant to exist
<bigcalm> I meant on the server, unless it's not meant to exist
<intrbiz> the tun inteface can persistently exist without causing any issues
<bigcalm> `ifconfig | grep tun0` on the openwrt router returns nothing
<intrbiz> the persist-tun option will stop tell openvpn to persistently create the tun interface
<bigcalm> root@router:/etc/easy-rsa/keys#   ps -w | grep openvpn
<bigcalm> 21214 root      1372 S    grep openvpn
<bigcalm> root@router:/etc/easy-rsa/keys#
<intrbiz> what does ifconfig tun0 give?
<bigcalm> ifconfig: tun0: error fetching interface information: Device not found
<intrbiz> is openvpn running?
<intrbiz> you can run it manually on the command line for testing with: openvpn --verb 4 --config /etc/...conf
<intrbiz> and on your client select the 'use only for resources on this connection' option in network manager under addresses -> routes to avoid redirecting the deafult gateway and breaking existing connections
<bigcalm> I've just managed to spill my wine
<bigcalm> I think I need to stop
<intrbiz> oops
<ali1234> alberto strikes again?
<ali1234> popey: alberto is like the exact opposite of chris penalver
<diddledan> err. price?! http://www.microcenter.com/product/439773/TW70CA17_Tablet_-_Black
<diddledan> I know it's windoop, but still
<diddledan> heh, you gotta go in-store.. in americaland
<ali1234> quad core intel in a tablet?
<ali1234> and only 1GB of ram? why?
<diddledan> it's an atom, but yeah an intel
<popey> i quite like my hudle
<popey> can't type hudl, muscle memory won't let me
<ali1234> would you say you like to HODL your hudl?
<popey> Yes, yes I would.
<popey> I'd quite hudleable
<ali1234> those new asus transformers are quite nice
<ali1234> very thin
<ali1234> actually usable as a tablet...
<popey> just a shame the hudle will in all likelyhood never get a software update
<popey> link?
<popey> have you tried a nexus 7 2013?
<ali1234> no
<popey> they're pretty decent enough
<ali1234> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/laptops-netbooks/ipad-tablets-and-ereaders/tablets/asus-transformer-book-t100-10-1-touchscreen-2-in-1-32-gb-dark-grey-21765509-pdt.html
<ali1234> i think it's that one
<popey> check tha bezel
<popey> asus also known for not providing sw updates
<ali1234> well you're not going to get edge to edge display for that price :)
<popey> sure
<popey> hudl beats it
<popey> easily
<popey> on that single criteria
<ali1234> yeah but it isn't a laptop transformer
<popey> sure
<ali1234> asus transformer is just a normal PC, so no problems installing ubuntu on it
<ali1234> assuming there's drivers
<popey> interesting
<popey> the transformer TF101 was the first tablet we had ubuntu touch on
<popey> a very early version
<ali1234> the first ones were a bit clunky i think
<popey> yeah
<popey> i still have one
<ali1234> but the new ones are really nice. the docking thing works well. it's tidy, but doesn't fell like it's going to fall apart
<popey> not tegra, all intel?
<ali1234> they have models with intel and arm
<ali1234> not sure exactly which one i used, but it was intel
<mjayk> popey: the tegra ones are the old ones the new ones are intel
<popey> k
<mjayk> oh ali1234 you might be right htey might still make arm ones - I've just only seen the new intel ones
<ali1234> they still have an ARM model on their website
<ali1234> tf303?
<mjayk> tf300 is the one i was thinking out was the 303 a typo or is that a new model
<ali1234> new model i guess. it wasn't a typo
<mjayk> i had xubuntu on the tf300 and it was surprisingly ok
<mjayk> lscpu
<markp> hi all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> so many problems with chromecast :(
<Nathan__> how do you change to andother directory in the terminal
<zmoylan-pi> cd <directory>
<zmoylan-pi> and tab auto completes names of directories to save time
<zmoylan-pi> usually
<popey> foobarry: like?
<twager> Anyone tell me how to open a JScript file ?
<brobostigon> use a text editor maybe. like gedit?
<twager> Will not open it..
<brobostigon> geany?
<brobostigon> whats the error you get when you try and open it?
<twager> Nothing in Linux seems to work..I even installed win7 on the laptop but that will not open it either
<twager> I do not get an error it just sits looking at me :-{
<foobarry> popey:chromecast rebooting, falling off a stable wifi, cannot play music from music.google.com anoymore, etc etc
<p42phone> T-Mobile seems to be struggling in manc city centre
<p42phone> Ssh latency is a couple of seconds, web browsing just isn't working
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daftykins> heya
<penguin42> hey bigcalm
<bigcalm> o
<bigcalm> o/
<popey> Morning!
 * popey plays with mobile game adverts
<penguin42> inserting them?
<popey> yeah
<penguin42> anything entertaining you can do?
<popey> well, just trying to see how they fit and react on ubuntu phone
<popey> also http://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/Dell-U2913WM-Widescreen-2560x1080-DisplayPort/product/B00ADHLSMO
<penguin42> that's quite nice; although some of the (bad) 4k monitors are down to that price
<daftykins> nice looking haswell ultrabook Lenovo Yoga 2 for Â£650 odd - but they refuse to ship  to the Channel Islands :(
<zmoylan-pi> they're afraid it'll get wet
<daftykins> :)
<ali1234> how do i use this ubuntu developer tools center then?
<map> hi all
<penguin42> heck, Dell are selling Makerbot 3d printers
<daftykins> :o
<zmoylan-pi> so common they even have one on iss
<map> dont see what id need a 3d printer for:)
<zmoylan-pi> printing your bigger 3d printer
<bigcalm> openwrt - can I ony use the version listed in the hardware table, or is it an indication of what is known to work? I have a WNDR3700 with a Atheros AR7161 CPU. Currently it's running 10.0.3.1. Do you think I can run the latest (14.07) on it?
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<popey> I'm running a fairly recent one on mine
<popey> thanks to MartijnVdS talking me through some bits
<bigcalm> popey: did you upgrade from one release to the next or jump 1 or 2?
<popey> i didnt upgrade
<popey> i flashed a new version
<bigcalm> popey: can you ssh into the router and cat /proc/cpuinfo for me please?
<popey> i didnt think there was an 'upgrade' as such
<bigcalm> Ah, fair enough :)
<popey> just trying to now
<bigcalm> Ta
<popey>  BARRIER BREAKER (Barrier Breaker, r43276)
<popey> thats the version of OpenWRT I have
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9305717/
<popey> thats cpuinfo
<bigcalm> Okay, newer than Backfire that's on my wndr3700
<bigcalm> Yay same hardware as mine
<bigcalm> I'll try installing 14.07 :D
<bigcalm> I'm actually going to try a remote sysupgrade
<bigcalm> Living on the edge and all that
<daftykins> D:
<bigcalm> Keeping myself occupied while at the hotel bar
<daftykins> this isn't one of your VPN endpoints is it 0o
<bigcalm> Red wine fuelling me
<bigcalm> daftykins: I haven't managed to get the VPN working on the router yet. Hence wanting to try the latest revision of openwrt
<daftykins> oic
<bigcalm> Hotel free wifi is iffy, using Liverpool's 4g instead
<bigcalm> I may drop off soon!
<popey> i wouldn't do it remotely
<popey> MartijnVdS ended up building me a special version which allowed me to use the higher wifi channels â»
<map> where you going?
<map> hotel wifi often sucks
<map> in latvia i could only get wifi in one place in the whl
<map> whole apartment:(
 * bigcalm looks about
<bigcalm> It worked :D
<bigcalm> I've reconnected
<daftykins> it's to remind you you should be out and about, not on the computer!
<map> pfff
<map> we needed it for directions
<map> :D
<bigcalm> Wow, this version of the web ui looks quite different
<map> altho we still ended up a the wrong stadium heh
<popey> web ui?
<bigcalm> popey: load the router's IP address in your web browser
<popey> nothing
<popey> i didnt install a web ui
<bigcalm> popey: unless you were being facetious and I can't tell because of the wine :)
<bigcalm> Oh, it came as standard I though
<popey> nah
<bigcalm> LuCI
<popey> eh?
<bigcalm> The name of the web ui
<popey> oh
<popey> ah, opkg install luci
<popey> â»
<popey> i had no idea there even was a web ui for openwrt
<popey> \o/ installed
<map> time to go into spain :d hope it doesnt rain
<daftykins> pff rain never hurt anyone ;)
<map> had to put cling film around my iphone...dropped it yesterday
<map> screen broke of course
<map> first time ive dropped it:(
<map> 3rd screen ive broken
<map> 4s/5 and now a 5s :[
<map> gonna get my dad to fix it when i go back..no point asking here..when i enquired about getting my phone unlocked they wanted Â£90...ee do it for 20 i just had to wait
<daftykins> map: this is why you can't have nice things
<map> pff
<daftykins> well i say nice, but it's an iPhone
<daftykins> :>
<map> thousands of people break them
<map> :D
<map> had to put cling film on it as if you dont bit by bit the screen/glass comes off
<map> id rather get it fixed soon but not gonna pay 150 which is what they want here
<popey> when i broke the back of my iphone 4s I took it to the local cheapo phone shop
<popey> they repaired it while I wandered round the shops
<map> yea thats uk tho;p
<map> its like being in a backwards country here in some aspects
<popey> no cheapo crappy shops there?
<map> nah
<popey> I don't believe it â»
<map> i went to the mobile shop after i went to gib telecom and got a local sim and sorted my fibre
<map> honestly
<map> its tiny here
<map> only 30000 people remember
<daftykins> the 4's are pretty nasty disassembly jobs
<map> i went to the shop and asked how much for an iphon 5s to be unlocked and he says
<daftykins> so many ridiculous pieces in the iPhones
<map> 'what networtk' 'ee' oh thats big expensive bro'
<map> he'd have said that no matter what network i said!
<map> yep 5/5s is easier than the 4
<map> there's only 1 supermarket for example
<map> Morrsons
<map> there's small like stores but nothing big
<map> no KFC even!
<daftykins> heh, you can come visit Guernsey for the no fast food experience
<daftykins> we have none of them
<map> 3 gyms and they cost a fortune..i pay Â£65 a month now
<daftykins> wat
<map> i was paying Â£15 in uk for 24/7:P
<map> yea
<map> ocean village health club 69 a month
<map> it was that or atlnatic suites halth club and spa righ by where i live for Â£85 a month
<map> not cheap eh
<map> there's only 1 ISP..gib telecom./...1 mobile network
<popey> blimey
<popey> dark ages â»
<map> cigarettes are dirt cheap as are spirits but yet lager/cider is a joke
<map> 4 cans of strongbow which is cheap rubbish as everyone knows for 6.50
<map> a bottle of JD 1 litre is like 12 quid
<popey> GBP over there?
<daftykins> that's how Guernsey used to be!
<map> well GIB gibraltar pounds
<map> BUT
<map> its 1:1
<daftykins> now we have 3 telcos
<popey> k
<map> BUT nowhere in UK takes gip and banks wont change them
<daftykins> and ours has gotten better than Jerseys :O
<map> so before i leave have to make sure i have no local money
<map> im still not sure what il do
<map> the pays making me tempted to stay
<map> almost Â£4k a month after tax
<map> but...it's a bit boring here ;)
<map> national insurance is cheaper too max of 130 quid or something..minimum of like 65
<daftykins> map: same as our money then :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q0g7gvk0l9z3zr3/IMG_20141125_212247.jpg?dl=0
<map> whats it called there
<daftykins> the pound, lawl
<daftykins> still GBP
<map> oi
<map> oh uk
<map> not like gip
<daftykins> yeah, we can actually spend it at some ports and stuff
<daftykins> like i paid for a train ticket in Southampton airport station once :D
<map> so its not uk notes then?
<daftykins> can't see the pic above?
<map> ah sec
<daftykins> we have green Â£1 notes too
<map> haha cool
<daftykins> i miss our money when going to England, get weighed down by all your silly coins :P
<map> its strange here tho
<map> property is mad expensive as its so small
<map> 2 bed flats like 500k
<map> penthouses for like 1-1.5 million
<daftykins> *nod*
<map> i was told locals dont live in these ripoff flats its just people who've come there to work
<daftykins> similar here
<map> mugs like me
<map> we pay Â£1600 a month
<daftykins> they might have local and open market like here
<daftykins> yeah sounds about similar
<map> so cheaper for local?
<daftykins> yip
<map> aha
<map> yea
<map> no way they could afford it else
<daftykins> local homes for local people - we'll have no trouble here!
<map> avcerage was is 27k
<map> 27k wont pay 1600 rent a month
<map> hopefully get a payrise in april then thatll be on my new salary after my payrise for coming here
<map> more monies!
<map> still paying council tax in the uk...which sucks
<daftykins> ;/
<map> a lot of british here
<map> but it's odd as i said before
<daftykins> that's a point - we have some ATMs that give english notes and most do local notes
<daftykins> so you can kinda prepare for going on holiday :D
<map> british peole come here..and work but live in La Linea as they say its too expensive to live in gib
<bigcalm> Woohoo
<map> so why come here?
<bigcalm> The openvpn service is now running on my router
<map> yea the ATms here do euro or pounds (some do anyway)
<map> nice!
<daftykins> here as in England?
<bigcalm> Glad upgrading the thing was worth while
<map> nah in gibraltar bigcalm
<daftykins> upgrades are always good ;)
<christel> upgrading the thing is always worthwhile.
<map> wonder if i could flash my router this gib telecom tecnicolour thing?
<daftykins> christel: ^5
<christel> ;)
 * christel ^5s
<map> can i daftykins
<daftykins> map: nope, no firmware updates even for mine
<daftykins> but why would you want to? nothing to gain by it
<bigcalm> I got my VPN working, woo!
 * bigcalm raises his glass of chillian red wine to christel
<map> well that sucks daftykins
<daftykins> map: you don't mean about your low speeds i hope ;)
<map> that super sucks
<map> i did email them..no reply of course
<map> but they said id be billed 5th or 15th cant remember and theyd create an ac using my email markaplant@icloud....still had no email and no bill in post
<map> im just gonna leave it
<map> not had an electric bill either..i was told it's monthly..yet ive had 2 water bills!
<map> 42Â£ for water this month..seems a bit much
<bigcalm> Now that I have a VPN, how do I route all traffic via it?
<map> push-redirect def1
<map> i think
<map> sec
<map> yea
<map> push "redirect-gateway def1"
<map> in server conf
<bigcalm> What's def1?
<daftykins> change your default gateway, no?
<map> use the flag to override default gateway
<map> yep
<popey> weren't you going out map? â»
<christel> bigcalm: CLINK CLINK
<christel> i made an early escape from the pub as there were dead birds there and guns!
<christel> it was most surreal
<map> yes in a bit popey
<daftykins> dead... birds and guns 0o
<christel> daftykins: indeed!
<christel> https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10440923_10152847259305937_7561874077003593926_n.jpg?oh=9c475101959bd0058af1d513e55337b2&oe=55085210&__gda__=1427072837_581e725598be4661192209eed5ae73a8
<daftykins> christel: is that 'cause you're in the cun'ry?
<christel> my local is very special!
<map> waiting for phne to reach 100
<map> ;D
<christel> daftykins: yup! ;)
<daftykins> O_O
<map> country eh
<map> somerset!
<christel> hunt on today so there was 18 very drunk lads with their guns in the pub and they kept wandering around hanging their pheasants everywhere
<christel> map: somerset indeed! ;)
<map> not been that part of the country or years
<map> too much effort getting home
<map> ]been to Pilton
<map> which is in somerset
<daftykins> christel: have you heard the one about the pheasant plucker?
<map> never really been around somerset much..just get there..spend 5 days on worthy farm...get home;]
<christel> daftykins: i have not! :P
<daftykins> :D best ask hubby
<popey> map: where you based in the uk?
<map> for work?
<map> Stoke
<popey> ah ok
<map> but not there anymore
<christel> map: we moved down here a few months ago (used to live in surrey, not far from AlanBell, popey, czajkowski, theopensourcer, etc.) -- so i appear to have swapped fellowminded geeks for chew valley countryside and dead birds ...
<popey> right
<map> not going back for a while
<map> going back to UK in january but going to heathrow and then to my dads in Bisley
<map> just up the road from you ;]
<map> still toying with staying here 12 months min..poss 2-3 years
<map> hahah nice
<map> where in surrey christel ?
<map> i lived in Bisley for years near woking..or camberly other way
<popey> yeah, we had a company do at bisley ranges once
<map> I can't afford a house in Surrey never will be able to! prices are a joke
<christel> i lived in farnham and then later in hindhead before we headed to the west country :)
<map> if yoiu know where Bisley is the big factory the house next door sold their front garden and ther'es like 4/5 houses there now..1s up for sale for 670k;[
<map> christel, i imagine somerset is like gibraltar in a way..after 10pm noone around not much to do?
<christel> WELL ... that is probably pretty accurate for where i live, my village has a population of 105 (supposedly) -- quite a high proportion of those are ... fairly old
<map> like where worthy farm is..its MILES FROM ANYTHING
<map> cba going to glastonbury these days anyway so no reason to go to that part of the country :)
<map> big ripoff... Â£250 ticketds..Â£5 for a beer..Â£8 for a garbage burger
<christel> oh, it's not too shabby -- it takes me about 20 minutes to bristol or bath :)
<map> and all under the guise of 'charity' and 'water aid' and greenpeace ..and capitalisms bad..like they had posters up ANTI HSBC and then Michael Eavis pays himself Â£200k?
<christel> it's a little countryside gem nicely tucked away but within acceptable travelling distance to bustling city life i guess :)
<map> maybe for retirement but id be bored there;p
<map> i seriously dont get how people buy into the rubbish glastonbury peddle
<christel> mmm the main fundraiser that the PTA at my son's school does is a stint of glastonbury volunteering each year :)
<map> greenpeace oxfa..wateraid
<map> exactly
<map> people volunteer
<map> meanwhile michael gets like 200k his daughters FULLTIME job is oragnising the festival and her husband gets paid too
<map> but then they say capitalisms bad? so why is it ok they pay themselves such huge sums
<map> and Â£8 for a crap tesco value burger ...sounds like ripoff capitalism to me
<map> honestly dont get it..you see what i mean? are people just thick?
<map> anti capitalism..yet they take credit card payments there etc
<bigcalm> Okay, routing all traffic via the VPN doesn't work properly right now. Think I'll leave it as is for now :)
<map> whats happening
<bigcalm> Traffic is just timing out
<bigcalm> traceroutes (mtr) stop at 10.8.0.1 (the tunnel)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-30
<bigcalm> I've been following the very basic set-up from http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/vpn.openvpn
<bigcalm> Will possibly tweak it tomorrow afternoon when I get home
<bigcalm> But I have also some LEGO models to build - Snowspeeder (Hoth), AT-AT and Super Star Destroyer
<bigcalm> No idea where I'm going to put the SSD once it's built
<daftykins> bigcalm: got IP forwarding enabled on the router?
<daftykins> mind you that should be default really
<bigcalm> 11% remaining on my laptop (have had the phone USB teathered). Guess I should switch to dead wood book and start Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (1st time for everything)
<daftykins> heh
<bigcalm> toodles
<daftykins> enjoy o/
<mapps> sheees
<mapps> i cant keep doing this
<mapps> :L(
<mapps> drinjk is gonna kill me
<mapps> *drink
<map> :)
<map> whos awake?
<map> SOUTH LONDON for life:D
<map> YET IM a spurs fan
<zmoylan-pi> alive if not awake...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Nathan2111> How do you make a new directory
<brobostigon> mkdir
<zmoylan-pi> never hangs around long enough for the answer
<brobostigon> yep.
<zmoylan-pi> some bot that waits for his ip to show up and bombard him with the info he was looking for... :-p
<awilkins> firmly in the category of question that can be solved by saying "tap alt and type what you want"
<awilkins> Although for some reason if you tap alt in nautilus and type "new directory" it's the third thing in the list... does the alt-menu have a set of aliases?
<awilkins> (the menu item is "New Folder" - but I imagine most of us think "Directory"
<awilkins> Aliases for common nouns to improve the matches in the alt-menu would seem to be a good idea
<mjayk> afternoon all
<foobarry> guy on my bus looked like super mario, even down to the moustach eand dungarees
<Azelphur> random offtopic stuff, anyone familiar with Garmin GPS's? I've been given one to update, using virtulabox with win7, usb passthrough'd the GPS, it shows up in Windows as a "USB Mass Storage Device" but it says drivers weren't successfully installed, and Garmin Express doesn't see it.
<penguin42> Azelphur: If you were to boot a Linux in your virtualbox does it show up in lsusb in the guest in the same way as it shows up in the host - i.e. has it really passed through?
<Azelphur> penguin42: I'm going to check that now, on the host it shows up as a usb mass storage device and auto mounts.
<Azelphur> penguin42: yup, shows up fine in a Linux guest.
<daftykins> don't they do some funky mode switching where it tells the device to open up another sort of... thing :D
 * Azelphur shrugs
<daftykins> i've done an update of one on Windows and even there it looked anything but normal, so that could complicate things
<Azelphur> gonna try it in an XP guest.
<daftykins> you know, if you boot a matching architecture windows 7 installer from USB, or from the Zalman - you can run executables from another flash drive. i suppose drivers would be out of the question though
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> i did that when i didn't want to install Windows but wanted to run a BIOS updater or something
<map> ARGHHH
<map> feel so rough again
<map> 30 cigs and 20 pints later
<map> ;]
<daftykins> silly boy!
<map> usual
<map> someday il quit smoking
<map> or ..i guess stop breathing :)
<Azelphur> nope, it doesn't appear to work at all on XP.
<daftykins> dinosaur OS :D
<daftykins> Azelphur: i think you've met your match on this one, in Loonix terms.
<Azelphur> well it doesn't work on 7 and it doesn't work on XP
<Azelphur> xD
<daftykins> yeah but that's vbox no doubt
<daftykins> when i did this one, i had to download a program from their site - and annoyingly there are two with very similar names
<Azelphur> never had anything that didn't work because of vbox
<daftykins> one does one set of models, the other does another
<daftykins> what does device manager show about this failed driver situation?
<Azelphur> (!) USB Mass Storage Device
<penguin42> Azelphur: Is it a usb2 or usb3 device and what type of port do you have it plugged into?
<Azelphur> right click properties, "This device cannot start. (Code 10)"
<Azelphur> penguin42: I'm guessing it's USB2, and I have it plugged into my keyboards built in USB hub
<zmoylan-pi> insufficent power?
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: no, it works on Linux hosts and guests just fine.
<daftykins> dude, don't use a hub :P
<penguin42> it's worth trying a port on it's own if you have one spare
<daftykins> not firing up a driver for a mass storage device is quirky, perhaps you're meant to put on some Garmin gubbins first
<Azelphur> daftykins: I installed the garmin USB drivers and garmin express
<Azelphur> doesn't work on a dedicated port either.
<daftykins> is it charged?
<Azelphur> daftykins: it works on Linux hosts and guests...
<Azelphur> so it's not a hardware issue.
<Azelphur> or even a virtualbox issue I would think
<daftykins> and yet you're staring at a non-functional device in a VM
<daftykins> :)
<Azelphur> yes, I'm blaming Windows/Garmin :)
<ali1234> virtualbox doesn't fully support usb2
<m0nkey_> It does sort-of support USB2, you need to install the addon from Oracle's virtualbox website
<Azelphur> well, I think this fellow is out of luck anywya
<Azelphur> it doesn't seem to work xD
<daftykins> the whole device?
<Azelphur> daftykins: the device works fine
<Azelphur> the USB storage works fine
<Azelphur> Garmins software...does not :P
<daftykins> what does it do?
<Azelphur> daftykins: see above?
<penguin42> Azelphur: You could give it a go in KVM, USB pass through is a bit of an art, I think it does USB2
<daftykins> nah i meant what does the software do 0o
<penguin42> Azelphur: However, either way, just make sure the host kernel hasn't mounted the device
<Azelphur> daftykins: update the maps.
<daftykins> i meant for failing XD
<Azelphur> daftykins: says it can't detect the device
<Azelphur> penguin42: could do, seems like a PITA though
<daftykins> sounds like what i had with this one where it was for the wrong model range
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> daftykins: at the very least Windows should have no problem mounting it as a USB mass storage device, because Linux guests can too
<penguin42> Azelphur: If you install virt-manager and qemu-kvm it should be OK, but it will take a bit of rework for you
<Azelphur> yea, and then a Win7 install, I think this fellow will have to handle his own GPS :P
<daftykins> Azelphur: yeah i don't think i ever had issues with that part. points to your VM really
<daftykins> did it mount fine before any of the Garmin junk went on?
<foobarry> has spirhave spotify stopped doing ads on the web player?
<Azelphur> daftykins: no
<foobarry> just played an album and had no ads
<diddledan> allo allo
<daftykins> good moaning, diddledan
<daftykins> hmm Unreal 1, Unreal 2, UT99 GOTY and UT2004 are $2 each on gog.com right now
<daftykins> that's barely over a fiver!
<diddledan> daftykins, were you just pissing by the door?
<daftykins> naturally, sir
<zmoylan-pi> with the dinomoot disgeesed as a loof of breed?
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I loved that series
 * zmoylan-pi pats a hard drive with all the episodes...
 * zmoylan-pi now pats the 'only fools and horses' dvds which will start to be added to it tonight after i rip 2 movies.  the great escape and the princess bride
<zmoylan-pi> should pass and hour or 20 over crimbo
<zmoylan-pi> was tempted by all of dads army but i prefer only fools
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> trouble with marathoning is you need a break, you should have at least two!
<diddledan> this is nuts (you may have seen it already - it's been doing the rounds): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVBcEg6klJI
<penguin42> hehe
<penguin42> reminds me of Terminator 2
<daftykins> why are vmware vids related? XD
<zmoylan-pi> because you're logged in?
<zmoylan-pi> i think the last time i was logged in while using youtube was before they killed google reader :-)
<zmoylan-pi> no reason to be logged in after that was killed off
<daftykins> no, i never allow such sites to have me auth'd
<daftykins> mmm i loved reader, i had to switch to feedly... which is alright
<penguin42> daftykins: I use newsblur (free version)
<zmoylan-pi> i use newsbeuter on my rasp pi.  works well enough though i only keep last 2 weeks of headlines as more than that slows it down on the pi.  when out and about the rss reader in opera mini is good enough
<zmoylan-pi> i could make the rasp pi visible while out and about and ssh in but am not brave enough to set that up yet
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: as long as you're on a non-standard port and have a sane password it'd be fine :) there's always fail2ban as well of course!
<daftykins> if sticking to password auth at all
<shauno> from the attempts I see, 'security through obscurity' has some real value
<daftykins> attempts on port 22? yarr
<shauno> disable root, don't use obvious usernames like staff, admin, pi, etc.  that's most the dictionary attacks gone
<ali1234> well it never hurts when used in combination with other methods
<daftykins> port knocking could be fun to play with sometime
<daftykins> but that means more forwards, heh
<zmoylan-pi> i use tablet for watching tv and movies as well as playing podcasts beside pc when i'm working.  also for leaving a twitter client open so stream can flow past without taking up resources on main pc
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-23
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bittin_> top of the morning to you ukains
<bittin_> morning
<MooDoo> :)
<andylockran> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Fibonacci Day! ð
<TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: 23/11/2015....eh?
<MooDoo> morning
<JamesTait> Gah, the T key on my keyboard is playing up. :(
<JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, I'm assming it has to do with US date notation (11/23) and that kind of following the Fibonacci sequence, even though 11 doesn't actually appear in the sequence.
<TwistedLucidity> Bloody imperialists!
<JamesTait> But 11+12=23. It's a stretch as far as I'm concerned.
<davmor2> JamesTait: Got you covered lyrically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPFDlUKFbWU
<diddledan> mooning
<davmor2> diddledan: public channel dude put it away :D  Morning
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> just had some hassle ordering something for someone, turns out verified by visa considers your home IP, geoIP, browser and OS on placing orders now
<zmoylan-pi> next year... colonoscopyIP...
<daftykins> indeed!
<zmoylan-pi> OR they just think that daftykins is a particularly shify individual...
<zmoylan-pi> >_>
<zmoylan-pi> <_<
<daftykins> pretty standard :)
 * zmoylan-pi copies 14 episodes of firefly to view later...
<daftykins> never did get the appeal of that one
<zmoylan-pi> i had to be force fed the first episode but it is a really beautiful sci fi show that was well done
<zmoylan-pi> still b5 > ds9 > firefly mind
<daftykins> diddledan: Surface Pro 4 on order :O
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> well done!
<diddledan> which spec did you go for?
<daftykins> 'tis the dream job, paid to play with new toys
<daftykins> as it's not for me
<diddledan> aww
<daftykins> expansys.com was cheap, Â£860 delivered for the i5 8GB RAM 256GB SSD model :)
<daftykins> oh my word, just had a gas letter come in... they're hiking the standing charge from 34p per day to Â£1.34 per day O_O
<daftykins> only concession is that unit price drops from 12.74 to 8.9 - bleh
<awilkins> daftykins, Clearly you're using gas too efficiently, citizen
<awilkins> daftykins, You must be penalized for all the free insulation that British Gas et al have been offering people so they can sell less gas for more money, it seems
<daftykins> awilkins: if only ;) don't have them over here
<daftykins> 'tis Guernsey Gas!
<awilkins> Why not just shove a hosepipe up a cow's bum?
<MartijnVdS> that's what Guernsey Gas is
<daftykins> ^
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> 134 per day?!
<diddledan> that's a lot
<diddledan> so that's an average of Â£40 minimum charge per month (with zero actual gas usage)
<diddledan> them cows must have gold-plated bums
<directhex> daftykins: that's cheap per unit
<directhex> daftykins: great if you drive a BEV!
<daftykins> just a way of screwing the people that don't use much, more - or in their words 'recovering the cost of gas provision'
<daftykins> i should gather my rates sometime and compare them to mainlander ways :)
<diddledan> daftykins, do your gas prices vary depending on the bovine stock?
<daftykins> diddledan: it's judged on a complicated system involving a team of divining rod enthusiasts
<diddledan> aha
<daftykins> directhex: gas though? o0
<diddledan> daftykins, maybe you can put electric gas into a car?
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> yummy choccy swiss roll
<daftykins> aww you shouldn't have!
<daftykins> the one doing today's rounds: http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/11/dell-does-superfish-ships-pcs-with-self-signed-root-certificates/
<diddledan> ffs
<diddledan> "when we were young" off adele's new album "25" is awesome
<daftykins> i had to rip that for someone yesterday
<daftykins> added it to their collection and thought... i'm sensing a theme here; album titles: 18, 21, 25
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> although I think she's actually 27?
 * diddledan googles
<diddledan> yup, she's 27
<diddledan> maybe it's named 25 because that's when she started working on it?
<daftykins> could've written them back then?
<diddledan> another awesome one: million years ago
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-24
<diddledan> maybe the next G version of ubuntu should be "Gnarly Gnus"?
<diddledan> http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-11/5/11/enhanced/webdr13/enhanced-14699-1446740827-7.jpg
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<TwistedLucidity> 8 hours, 6 minutes of drudgery to go....
<MooDoo> tell me about it
<TwistedLucidity> I found a new hero yesterday: https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/249-now-thats-what-i-call-a-hacker/
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday and happy Celebrate Your Unique Talent Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning
<foobarry> !ping
<lubotu3`> pong!
<foobarry> received duplicate order of tshirts from USA :S
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> foobarry, maybe they decided you needed two
<foobarry> i ordered 2 types, received 2 of each
<foobarry> gonna have to get in touch with them
<foobarry> postage to USA pricey though
<popey> foobarry, surely they'll pay that, or more likely just let you keep it
<foobarry> yeah, you'd think so
<popey> I know someone who got sent double quantity of sofas
<popey> they didnt want them back
<Myrtti> I got a double quantity of digital cameras once
<dogmatic69__> foobarry:  by law you can keep it with no cost
<Myrtti> and I couldn't even return the other, because the system saw me getting only one
<foobarry> i'd like to ask them first
<diddledan> http://www.sciencealert.com/li-fi-tested-in-the-real-world-for-the-first-time-is-100-times-faster-than-wi-fi
<diddledan> interesting concept
<diddledan> I'm wondering how you communicate back to the light-fitting tho
<dogmatic69__> foobarry: its to stop companies 'accidentally' sending extra and then asking people to pay up.
<bashrc_> I remember discussing that li-fi idea in a job interview long ago
<bashrc_> at a company which made lights
<foobarry> i get 2 notifications from thunderbird. one is the desktop notifications, one is an ugly one at bottom of screen - how do i turn that off?
<MooDoo> ubuntu spotted - http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/11/how-a-group-of-neighbors-created-their-own-internet-service/ 1m 27 mark :)
<SuperMatt> It's so much easier to spot ubuntu in the wild than any other distro
<SuperMatt> I wonder why that could be
<zmoylan-pi> less windows 8 around these days? :-)
<diddledan> SuperMatt, brown
<diddledan> oh wait, we lost that these days. orange then
<diddledan> or purple
<MooDoo> it's aubergine not purple :p ;)
<awilkins> Lifi : just communicate back with wifi
<awilkins> No doubt designed for the common notion that people download more data than they upload
<Seeker`> Myrtti: a real shame that you got a 2nd camera :P
<Myrtti> well neither of them were for me
<Myrtti> so one family got a camera in Finland and other in UK as a Christmas present
<awilkins> The only time I want gigabit speeds upstream is when I sync my Windows 7 VM from my laptop to my desktop
<diddledan> oh dear, a turkey has killed a rusky
<diddledan> http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/turkish-warplane-shoots-down-russian-6888744
<zmoylan-pi> techincally one of the ruskies was captured alive... won't end well
<diddledan> https://www.google.com/intl/en-GB/starwars/
<MooDoo> diddledan: dark side here :D
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Both dead
<mapps> urgh
<mapps> another rubbish night at the casino, so boring here
<mapps> won money, but its still soul destroying
<diddledan> yawn
<diddledan> ello mapps
<mapps> hey
<mapps> i like how every idiot at the casinos is smarter than everyone else/better off/good job , then it turns out ..no they work in a bar
<mapps> lol
<mapps> why do people have to lie so much
<diddledan> donno, but my 200ft yacht had a great party at the weekend ;-)
<diddledan> (that was a lie)
<zmoylan-pi> you were there by yourself...
<diddledan> yeah, the party suckecd
<diddledan> sucked*
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> still at least the staff were friendly
<diddledan> (lie)
<popey> "every idiot at the casinos"
<mapps> well
<mapps> people that tell me i should play perect pairs at like 4/1 or whatever
<mapps> ridiculous odds
<mapps> im a gambler, but i know what odds stuff should be
<mapps> im terrible at my own gambling ;) for the company already made 1.5mil since june lol
<mapps> it pays for my "luxury living" apartment, 1500 quid a month for this pokey dump ..but i dont want to move to spain
<diddledan> why are randoms following me on teh twits?
<diddledan> @crimealertsusa is the latest random
<zmoylan-pi> bots follow random people, people follow random people in hope they follow back to increase the # of their followers
<diddledan> some guy called @AndrewMayne is following me
<diddledan> he's supposedly an award winning author
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of authors follow people to push their books....
<zmoylan-pi> they usually have longest densest bios
<diddledan> he's apparently the star of "Don't trust andrew mayne" on the A&E network
<diddledan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ddsknofqlgyofm/Screenshot%202015-11-24%2021.53.54.png?dl=0
<diddledan> not many
<zmoylan-pi> kinda how snowden felt when he joined twitter :-)
<diddledan> lol, yeah, if you're famous you really should turn off twitter emails
<mapps> diddledan
<mapps> i always get that
<mapps> loadsa random follower reqs
<diddledan> I want to know how they decide who to follow
<zmoylan-pi> peobably scanning peoples bios or locations
<diddledan> if it's locations then why would @CrimeAlertsUSA follow me?
<diddledan> hint. I'm not in murrica
<zmoylan-pi> maybe they assumed your an american if you follow mostly american accounts or are just eejits
<diddledan> methinks they're somewhat more strongly worded than eejit
<diddledan> f**king ***hole morons
<zmoylan-pi> well it's a good enough description for a family friendly channel
<diddledan> hmm, freenas mini discount
 * diddledan waits for the email to load
<diddledan> meh, that's expensive
<diddledan> 4TB for 1.2k$
<diddledan> 8TB for 1.3k$
<diddledan> 1.4**
<diddledan> 12TB for 1.5k$
<diddledan> 16TB for 1.7k$
<diddledan> or the top end 24TB for 2.25k$
<daftykins> hmm i've definitely put together those for cheaper
<daftykins> http://anandtech.com/show/9815/amd-moves-pre-gcn-gpus-to-legacy
<daftykins> many many abandoned cards
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> I'm almost glad I bricked my 6850 :-p
<diddledan> sorry, 6870
 * diddledan just double checked the number
<daftykins> you did? not via BIOS malarkey?
<diddledan> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think i've ever blown a video card... not from want of trying mind you... :-)
<daftykins> ah could your recent purchase not help with that?
<diddledan> donno
<diddledan> it'ld require pulling the shield off to find any headers but that's too much hassle :-p
<daftykins> diddledan: or you know, if you have a mobo with two PEG slots you could reflash it
<zmoylan-pi> serial, parralel, usb, modems, isdn, scsi, scanners, sounds cards blown to kingdom come but never a video card for some reason...
<diddledan> that's a point
<daftykins> make it sew!
<diddledan> I didn't think of plugging two cards into the machine
<diddledan> I'm not sure I've still got the bios tho
<daftykins> easily obtained online
<daftykins> diddledan: example - https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/index.php?manufacturer=Sapphire&model=HD+6850
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> tired, knackered, in pain. and you?
<MooDoo> yeah i'm tired, but slept a lot last night which is probably why :D
<brobostigon> ah. :)
<SuperMatt> the human body is a remarkably poorly constructed thing
<SuperMatt> the fact that it genuninely allows you to wake up feeling more tired than you went to bed is just bat poop crazy
<foobarry> or we are doing it wrong
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> that's a possibility
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 :)
<MooDoo> the moe sleep i have the worse and grumpier i am :)
<foobarry> thats age
<foobarry> you are getting 1 day older :)
<MooDoo> yeah i'm getting older :)
<davmor2> foobarry: no it is definitely related to sleep, I'm with MooDoo on this one.  If I have 6-7 sleep I'm tired but much happier. If I get 8-9 I'm not so tired but then I was having a lie in so why did you wake me. More than 9 hours and I'm ready to scream get off my lawn to any kid that passes by and I don't even have a lawn :D
<SuperMatt> it might have something to do with the REM sleep cycle patterns
<SuperMatt> https://boingboing.net/2011/01/07/waking-up-without-an.html - I tried this for a period of time, and it did make me feel quite good.
<SuperMatt> then I got a girlfriend and all hell broke loose
<SuperMatt> I couldn't imagine doing the same with kids involved
<foobarry> woke up every X minutes due to daughter coughing all night
<SuperMatt> there's your problem
<SuperMatt> procreation: bringing all of life's joys and woes in one precious, snotty bundle
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy Shopping Reminder Day! ð
<awilkins> Does Firefox still need a special patch / plugin on Trusty to integrate with the Unity menu?
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMxX-QOV9tI
<davmor2> JamesTait: or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noWriJ-YGws
<JamesTait> davmor2, thanks for the earworm.
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're welcome
<andylockran> morning guys
<MooDoo> morning
<andylockran> how goes things?
<SuperMatt> hurm, Ubuntu works really well as a gnome-boxes guest, installing and booting so much faster than Centos, but for some reason the shared clipboard doesn't work out of the box like it does for centos. You have to install the spice-vdagent package first
<davmor2> SuperMatt: boxes is a redhat thing they may have bits in the system that ubuntu doesn't so you may need to install something for it to work
<SuperMatt> gotcha
<SuperMatt> http://londonist.com/2015/11/holborn-commuters-made-to-stand-on-the-right-and-the-left?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+londonist%2FsBMe+%28Londonist%29
<SuperMatt> http://londonist.com/2015/11/holborn-commuters-made-to-stand-on-the-right-and-the-left
<SuperMatt> oops I put those in the wrong window
<SuperMatt> but it looks like centos automatically installs the spice client
<davmor2> SuperMatt: see :)
<davmor2> SuperMatt: so out of interest if you install that does it then work in Ubuntu?
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> though I had to reboot
<davmor2> SuperMatt: kernel level change so that makes sense
<MooDoo> damn rebooting
<SuperMatt> I know
<SuperMatt> I run linux, shouldn't have to reboot
<davmor2> MooDoo: you love it you know you do, otherwise how else would you have time to talk to your family :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: I've not touched my servers in months, so have had time to speak to them and feed them and all sorts :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: see that's what happens when you stop using windows :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: not stopped yet lol, still using hyper-v for my virtual machines and RHEL for my storage server :p
<foobarry> woot let me keep the extra tshirts
<foobarry> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> christmas presents sorted \o/ :-D
<zmoylan-pi> as long as the sizes of t-shirts fit your recipients of course...
<safiyyah> Hi all, I need help setting me graphics back to nouveau , I already deleted Nvidia drivers and removed the card from the motherboard, I am not using my onboard graphics but cannot get the going well enough. I ran the commands: sudo apt-get install nouveau-firmware
<safiyyah> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<safiyyah> ali1234, daftykins directhex DJones foobarry Seeker`
<Seeker`> 1don't randomly ping people
<Seeker`> if someone knows the answer, they'll answer. Otherwise, try #ubuntu
<safiyyah> sorry Seeker` I pinged those who I thought could help, I am sorry you found it rude.
<SuperMatt> make sure the nouveau driver isn't blacklisted in /etc/modprobe.d
<SuperMatt> if all else fails, reinstall
<safiyyah> SuperMatt, I checked, it isn't there
<safiyyah> have purged and installed
<safiyyah> going to reboot
<safiyyah> brb
<safiyyah> I rebooted, twice, reinstalled, twice, no joy
<safiyyah> :(
<safiyyah> brb, rebooting again
<safiyyah> meh, no luck!
<SuperMatt> what errors is it giving you?
 * bittin_ at work atm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbyYGrswtg
<safiyyah> SuperMatt, no errors at all
<safiyyah> just when I reboot the resolution is way off
<SuperEngineer> safiyyah, this may be stating the obvious but why not put nVidia card back in, try if both noveau & nVidia drivers work
<SuperMatt> right, so it's probably that you're using nouveu, and you can find this by running lsmod | grep nouveau
<SuperEngineer> ...& how do know it's not working
<SuperMatt> it's entirely possible that your onboard is pooched
<SuperEngineer> ...& what onboard video are you attempting
<safiyyah> it's me first time using my onboard graphics
<safiyyah> always had an nvidia card
<safiyyah> which died a few days ago
<SuperEngineer> ..& SuperMatt just asked my next question :)
<safiyyah> decided to just use the on board lot
<SuperEngineer> which board?
<safiyyah> asus
<SuperEngineer> is that intel on board graphics?
<SuperMatt> possible that the onboard doesn't even use nvidia
<SuperMatt> team Super* is on the case
<SuperMatt> or Super.*
<safiyyah> i deleted nvidia, including xorg
<safiyyah> purged it
<safiyyah> and then installed nouveau
<safiyyah> purged bumblebee as well just now
<SuperMatt> Super[EM][a-z]*
<SuperMatt> I don't know why I'm regexing this
<SuperEngineer> :-D
<SuperEngineer> safiyyah, do oyu know what the onboard is supposed to be [nvidia/intel]
<safiyyah> no idea about the board, an get the manual out and look
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13502420/
<safiyyah> checking manual now
<SuperEngineer> yup, that would be a good idea
<SuperMatt> or you can run lspci | grep VGA
<SuperEngineer> or you can ask yourself: "am I looking at the screen right now?" coz if so, something graphical might just possible at a long shot actual be working ;-)
<safiyyah> Graphics: Intel Graphics Media Accelerator (Intel GMA 3100) integrated Max. resolution 2048**bpp, HorizontalL
<SuperMatt> there's your problem
<SuperMatt> you're trying to use nouveau with an intel card
<SuperEngineer> hmmm.. intel [do I need to go on]
<safiyyah> okay I don't get the issue
<SuperEngineer> again... SuperMatt types faster than me!
<SuperMatt> too Super for some
<safiyyah> when I do a fresh install of an OS, it works and then I put the nvidia graphics
<SuperEngineer> why>
<SuperEngineer> ?
<safiyyah> because I used to like compiz
<safiyyah> well I am over it now
<SuperMatt> you and everyone but the unity devs
<SuperMatt> ZING!
<SuperEngineer> KAPOW!
<SuperEngineer> and SuperMatt, you try sitting at a keyboard whilst recovering from a double hernia op!
<SuperMatt> I understand now
<SuperEngineer> [sorry... I meant "double krytonote exposure"
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<safiyyah> I don't get it?
<SuperEngineer> *kryptonite
<SuperMatt> safiyyah: the issue is that you're trying to use nouveau, which is an nvidia driver, but your graphics card is intel. You need to install the inter drivers
<safiyyah> okay
<safiyyah> what are they called?
<SuperMatt> well this is where I can't help because I'm running Fedora
<awilkins> The Intel drivers are just part of the kernel
<SuperMatt> but if you can get some of desktop access, the ubuntu drivers application *should* install the correct ones
<SuperMatt> ah, there you go
<awilkins> You don't need to install them, you just need to not tell the OS to use the nvidia ones when it has no nvidia hardware
<awilkins> Although isn't the Intel GMA the one built into the CPU?
<safiyyah> awilkins, probably
 * SuperEngineer just opened synaptic & found a load of xserver-xorg-video, might be worth a look... but check before installing any
<SuperEngineer> & check your BIOS / UEFI settingds allow the onboard video before doing anything.. I suspect they are fully ok as all is ok before you try to use nvdia again intel
<awilkins> The newer nvidia cards sometimes need newer drivers
<awilkins> ie when I got my GTX 980Ti I had to install newer drivers
<awilkins> There's a PPA for that
<awilkins> https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<awilkins> You should never have to manually install nvidia binary driver packages
<SuperEngineer> awilkins, his nvidia card gone to meet its maker
<awilkins> Doing so mucks things up
<awilkins> Ah, well, I'd follow your advice and go to the BIOS
<awilkins> By default, xserver-xorg-video-intel is installed out of the box
<awilkins> So it should work fine
<SuperEngineer> awilkins, agrred
<awilkins> Kernel drivers are also just part of the default install
<safiyyah> ok I understood to check the bios
<safiyyah> did I understand correctly?
<safiyyah> I will reboot to do so
<SuperEngineer> if you are not still trying to use the nvidia drivers, reboot
<safiyyah> SuperEngineer, am I to purge nouveau?
<SuperEngineer> yes, oui, tac, si
<SuperEngineer> definitely even
<safiyyah> brb
<SuperEngineer> p.s awilkins ... please send me your GTX 980 [mine is only a GTX 650].. need yours to check yours is not faulty.  I'll send it stright back, honest ;-)
<safiyyah> no joy
<awilkins> hahahaha :-) I've got the 560Ti it replaced still
<SuperEngineer> safiyyah, reinstal
<safiyyah> nouveau?
<SuperMatt> no! do not install nouveau!
<SuperEngineer> safiyyah, ubuntu
<awilkins> Yeah, backup your home folder and reinstall. I'd never recommend it for Windows because it's such a PITA, but for Ubuntu it's a sound strategy.
<safiyyah> reintall ubuntu???
<SuperMatt> nouveau is a drive for nvidia cards only, you have intel
<SuperMatt> yup
<awilkins> It's not as horrible as it sounds :-)
<awilkins> What's your network connection like?
<safiyyah> noooooooooooo
<SuperMatt> you shouldn't need to back up /home, because apparently if you select the install over the top option, it will keep /home
<SuperEngineer> safiyyah, you could even tell it to keep your existing home folder
<SuperMatt> (but backing up is always advised)
<safiyyah> its hell getting my scanner working
<SuperEngineer> damn! SuperMatt did it again!
<SuperMatt> sorry bud
<SuperMatt> let me slow down a little
<awilkins> What scanner?
<safiyyah> it's already backed up
<safiyyah> brother
<SuperEngineer> lol
<awilkins> Hmm
<awilkins> I had a Samsung one built into my last printer that worked over the network
<awilkins> But you needed a horrible Perl script. Which was in my home folder.
<bashrc_> cowsay "Scanners are nothing but trouble"
<safiyyah> oh i guess i just have to bite the bullet
<NotSoSuperMatt> sometimes the simplest solution is the one you least want to do
 * zmoylan-pi still wakes up screaming about scanners... :-)
<NotSoSuperMatt> but do not install nouveau when the box is back online
<safiyyah> lol
<awilkins> Almost worth the reduced hassle to buy a RasPi to install the scanner on :-)
<NotSoSuperMatt> I don't mind getting scanners working, but printers belong in their own circle of hell
<awilkins> And then NEVER TOUCH IT AGAIN
<SuperEngineer> safiyyah, in case you have an SD card slot in your printer/scanner do ehat I do... scan to SD card & "collect" the scanned article from the SD card
<zmoylan-pi> if it weren't for irfanview on windows to make scanners usable on windows...
<safiyyah> the scanner, thing of beauty when its workinh
<safiyyah> hell on earth to sort out
<SuperEngineer> many will connect directly to your pooter so no phtysical SD card moving required
<davmor2> is it an all in one or just a scanner, if it's an all in one setup the printer then open simple scan and it should of pulled in the scanner section
<safiyyah> davmor2, that has never worked
<safiyyah> am going in guys
<davmor2> safiyyah: it should
<safiyyah> pray for me
<SuperEngineer> will do
<SuperEngineer> Bad news for TUX - BBC Radio 2 Factoids: Polar bears can eat as many as 86 penguins in a single sitting.
<zmoylan-pi> ms are thinking of changing their logo... :-)
<diddledan_> oh?
<diddledan_> or is that a joke referencing the bears?
<zmoylan-pi> :-)
<SuperMatt> SuperEngineer: that's fine, we'll just keep forking until there are enough penguins to outnumber the polar bear
<SuperEngineer> :-D
<MooDoo> lol
<zmoylan-pi> and install tux on the polar bears...
<awilkins> BBC servers are dead : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news
<diddledan_> works here
<awilkins> Hmm, getting a 500 here
<diddledan_> maybe it's something with edge caching - depends on ISP
<awilkins> Yeah, VM do edge caching, definitely
<diddledan_> with websites on serverfarms and with edge caching it's very difficult to determine if a problem is with the site or your isp or ....
<awilkins> Now a refresh is really thinking about it
<diddledan_> hmm, I'm on VM too
<awilkins> Yay, they rebooted
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> someone used the server power for the vacuum
<mapps> gah cant access my routers config, looks like they must have changed the default user/pass
<mapps> ;[
<Laney> joshua2
<Laney> hunter2
<Laney> damn it!!!!
 * Laney mixed up Famous Computer Passwords
<davmor2> Laney: get your coat
<diddledan_> see, I always see "get your coat" suffixed with ", you've pulled!"
<diddledan_> flirting ftw
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> of course there's also the aussie foreplay "brace yaself, sheila"
 * diddledan_ hides
<davmor2> diddledan_: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2v6abw
<davmor2> http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/6776984/adele-25-42-percent-record-sales-7-5-million-200  and with her clothes on, lets see miley match that :D
<diddledan_> wow
<diddledan_> 42%
<diddledan_> that's of ALL music sales?!
<zmoylan-pi> so... adele is the answer to the music industries questions? :-)
<MartijnVdS> a
<MartijnVdS> a Dell?
<daftykins> dude, you're getting Adele
<MartijnVdS> my laptop is a dell..
<diddledan_> what do you want a dell for?! :-p
<diddledan_> time to catch-up on shield
<diddledan_> agents thereof
<awilkins> What the cheapest VPS with US servers? (really, I'm taking Raspberry Pi levels of hardware...)
<diddledan_> hmm
<diddledan_> digitalocean do 5$ per mo
<awilkins> Hrrmph
<diddledan_> I've not looked at linode in a while
<awilkins> Heh, annoyed by the loss of my current DNS proxy for Netflix usage :-)
<diddledan_> :-(
<diddledan_> sucky
<awilkins> All the DNS services specifically for the purpose charge about $5 a month
<awilkins> I pay $2.95 for 15GB of Usenes
<awilkins> Usenet
<diddledan_> usenet ftw
<awilkins> $5 for a few tens of kB of DNS requests seems excessive in comparison
<diddledan_> I think for netflix they might need to do some proxying of some stuff too
<daftykins> awilkins: eh, as in for netflix US?
<daftykins> digitalocean setups are neat, you can get OpenVPN fired up within 30 mins of creating an instance
<awilkins> daftykins, Yeah, all you need is the DNS proxied a bit
<awilkins> daftykins, The names are the same for their content servers across the globe... they geolocate your DNS request
<daftykins> ah so you can probably tunnel that over SSH instead?
<awilkins> Hmm, maybe
<awilkins> There are whole docker containers with the relevant gubbins in to just be a DNS server
<awilkins> Set up to do it
<awilkins> Been binging Deep Space 9
<awilkins> But something is up with the DNS server I've been using
<awilkins> They have ALL the Star Trek on US Netflix
<daftykins> ah i've watched all of that not long ago :>
 * zmoylan-pi has all trek on a hard drive barring original series... must sort that
<zmoylan-pi> which is odd as i do have animated series :-)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: but you can't go without fine moments such as - https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n7k0td4rur4jjs/spock.JPG?dl=0
<diddledan_> sobbing mathematically?
<zmoylan-pi> i held of buying the dvds as they said they were going to remaster the original series but never got around to getting them
<daftykins> i got some blurays with the re-done CG sequences, they don't actually ruin anything compared with the originals
<daftykins> i'd not seen TOS before
<awilkins> US Netflix apparently has the remastered
<daftykins> awilkins: how far did you get in DS9?
<awilkins> Close to end of Season 2
<awilkins> Garak just had his brain implant melt down
<awilkins> S3 I think actually
<zmoylan-pi> like a lot of trek season one is never great
<awilkins> The Maquis stuff just kicked off
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> the Doctor and Garak scenes are ace
<awilkins> RIght, beddy byes time
<awilkins> Gnight
<zmoylan-pi> garak commenting on the boy who cried wolf...
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<zmoylan-pi> garak and quark and the root beer...
<zmoylan-pi> all of gark and odo
 * zmoylan-pi puts on red dwarf 'psirens'
<zmoylan-pi> the one with the models of trek and space 1999 ships :-)
<zmoylan-pi> 'this baby's crashed more times than a zx81' :-D
<diddledan_> if you thought csi cyber was funky hacker depictions, scorpion is awesome!
<diddledan_> (awesomely bad that is, which I love!)
<zmoylan-pi> hollywood hackers at it's silliest?
<diddledan_> the introduction credits have "</" and ">" before and after random headings
<diddledan_> that tels you how awesome it is
 * zmoylan-pi is intrigued and makes a mental note to look for it
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> if only coding at night wearing a balaclava was photogenic... :-)
<diddledan_> ooh, that's what I'm doing wrong, I don't have a balaclava
<zmoylan-pi> if you're a noob you can slum it in a hoodie... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> especially a new hoodie with a kittie pocket...
 * diddledan_ wanders off to find a hoodie
<diddledan_> I've got a poo-load of empty pepsi bottles, does that help?
<zmoylan-pi> no they have to be cans that you mount onto a board and paint black to make a solar radiator :-)
<diddledan_> "I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your son is a genius"
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-26
<daftykins> diddledan_: hrmm i've heard reports the 1511 release of win10 got withdrawn O_O
<diddledan_> only the ISO
<zmoylan-pi> it wwas resetting privacy settings and uninstalling some software from reports i read online...
<daftykins> nah i got told it was the update too
 * zmoylan-pi is watching the expanse. has promise...
<daftykins> British/US series, or a film?
<daftykins> <-- no clue
<zmoylan-pi> us sci fi series.... 1 episode so far
<diddledan_> I haven't received the first ep of the expanse yet
<zmoylan-pi> nice attention to detail of a bird flying in zero g
<daftykins> is it still flying? :D
<diddledan_> that's a good point, does it count as flying when it's in zero-g?
<zmoylan-pi> well scientists are now saying that penguins do fly, just that it's under water...
<zmoylan-pi> so on that premise i'd say yes as it's using it's wings to move and position itself
<daftykins> wow i can't even visit gamestop.co.uk
<diddledan_> black friday?
<daftykins> Error code 16
<daftykins> This request was blocked by the security rules
<diddledan_> or islands?
<zmoylan-pi> works for me
<diddledan_> yeah I'm guessing it's 'cos daftykins is an illegal
<daftykins> pretty sure our IP range is blocked from a lot of sites
<daftykins> very cheap PS4 with a bunch of games meant to be on there, ho hum :>
<daftykins> shouldn't buy anything anyway!
 * zmoylan-pi waits for the reward on daftykins goes up before reporting...
<diddledan_> srsly? dangling an ethernet cable out of an aeroplane flying above a fast driving car?!
<zmoylan-pi> that would work with co-ax.... don't ask... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> of course the craziest thing that came across my radar on planes recently was this little beauty... watch a hercules c130 take off... quickly... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etzqmtYcpCQ
<diddledan_> that's cking awesome!
<daftykins> O_O that is amazing
<zmoylan-pi> isn't it?  watching it throw itself into the sky using pure rockets is something else...
<diddledan_> they should make more planes like that!
<diddledan_> so what was op credible sport?
<zmoylan-pi> who says that they haven't? /paranoia...
<zmoylan-pi> they were going to fly into iran and rescue hostages in 70s
<zmoylan-pi> all guns AND rockets blazing
<diddledan_> this one explains it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCl3lfAx1Q
<daftykins> oh i just saw the end... oops
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, it failed the last flight test... badly...
<diddledan_> land inside a football stdium!
<zmoylan-pi> fell 50ft out of the air when they engaged front braking rockets instead of vertical descent rockets accidently
<daftykins> :S that's when you want someone to label the controls better
<diddledan_> I love in all the Jerry Anderson model space craft they hover and THEN fire the decent rockets and only THEN start going downwards
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> it was a jury rigged made in 30 days modified plane... they didn't have budget for magic marker... :-)
<diddledan_> you've seen what happens with controls labels in independence day
<daftykins> haha i was thinking of that very scene as it goes :>
<diddledan_> "what say we try that again?" "yesyes. that way!"
<daftykins> as bad as folk that use inverted axis on games consoles
 * daftykins tuts
<zmoylan-pi> well in some of the swing wing and vtol experiments in 50s and 60s it kinda looked like that as they switched from using wings for lift to alternate methods
<zmoylan-pi> of course then there's the an-2 a plane with no stall speed so it falls out of the sky like it has a parachute... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> A note from the pilot's handbook reads: "If the engine quits in instrument conditions or at night, the pilot should pull the control column full aft and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out at about 64 km/h (40 mph) and when the airplane slows to a forward speed of about 40 km/h (25 mph), the airplane will sink at about a parachute descent rate until the aircraft hits the ground."
<diddledan_> o_O
<diddledan_> wow
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: do you have any knowledge of whether that C130 mission was a success? :>
<ali1234> so they originally used computers to fire the rockets and it worked perfectly
<ali1234> then they decided to have the pilots control it, and human error caused the crash
<zmoylan-pi> it didn't happen as their plane was very broken
<zmoylan-pi> so regan bribed the iranians instead
<ali1234> i thought ben affleck rescued the hostages
<diddledan_> ben affleck ftw
<daftykins> aww they could've just built another!
<zmoylan-pi> but that would take another 30 days
<daftykins> eeeh, hostages sausages *whistles*
<ali1234> nah the events of the ben affleck movie happened before credible sport apparently
<diddledan_> so instead of building a plane in 30 days they waited a year till the iranians got fed up?
<zmoylan-pi> pretty much
<ali1234> less than a year
<ali1234> wikipedia suggests the plan was abandoned due to a change in administration
<ali1234> they had backup planes
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B012VJ08JA
<daftykins> this thing is going cheap :O
<zmoylan-pi> i got one of those from argos last year for less
<diddledan_> it had better have superfish! I'm not buying it unless I can get targetted advertising
<zmoylan-pi> the wifi and bt weren't detected by any of the distros i threw at it.  still using linux on it as it's beside ethernet cable anyhow and i couldn't be arsed hunting out drivers
<ali1234> that would be a combo wifi and bluetooth card then
<zmoylan-pi> i got for around â¬250
<ali1234> probably just needs IDs adding to the right kernel module
<ali1234> got a lspci/lsusb/dmesg?
<zmoylan-pi> i usually check argos 2-3 weeks before they bring out a new catalog for cheap computers :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it's in the kitchen... let me go have a look
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: well it's Â£200 delivered to me, so i've gone for it!
<daftykins> i can easily sell that
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pb5y567wd9isf6h/lenovo.png?dl=0
<daftykins> aww yeah
<zmoylan-pi> ok so mine is g50-30 which is probably some sub spec of the chassis. shipped with 4gb... now lets have a look
 * zmoylan-pi makes note not to do a lscpi on rasp pi and use terminal on actual laptop :-)
<zmoylan-pi> lspci... http://pastebin.com/0Dyupw51
<daftykins> sounds like an atom?
<ali1234> what about lspci -nn
<diddledan_> yeah, valleyview appears to be atom
<zmoylan-pi> i pastebined without that, am trying to pastebin that now but it's asking me to wait.  long time since i used paste bin and not much even then. sorry...
<ali1234> use pastebinit, it goes to ubuntu's pastebin
<daftykins> or even "lspci -nn | nc termbin.com 9999" :D
<daftykins> that haswell i3 on the one i ordered will drive that crazy 2560x1440 LCD i got for someone
<zmoylan-pi> which wants me to read a 1000 pages of instructions to use...
<ali1234> lspci -nn | pastebinit
<zmoylan-pi> http://hastebin.com/evatahoxey.vhdl
<zmoylan-pi> all 3 in one post
 * zmoylan-pi shuts down kitchen and retreats to warm bed...
<ali1234> your wifi appears to work
<ali1234> and bluetooth
<ali1234> they were both detected anyway
<ali1234> apparently it all works on the latest kernel / ubuntu 15.04
<zmoylan-pi> not in linux mint or ubuntu or 2-3 other distros who's names i'd need to check
<ali1234> was supposedly fixed in may
<zmoylan-pi> oh i did poke around at one point but could never get them connected
<zmoylan-pi> this was after may
<diddledan_> yeah the april ubuntu won't have had it
<zmoylan-pi> just made a note to avoid lenovo next time :-)
<diddledan_> won't have arrived until 15.10
<ali1234> thinkpads are great though
<zmoylan-pi> a lenovo isn't automatically a thinkpad though
<ali1234> i know... next time
<diddledan_> yeah, but a thinkpad is automatically a lenovo (new)
<ali1234> 2nd hand thinkpads are like Â£250
<zmoylan-pi> and are still tanks
 * zmoylan-pi puts on st voyager
<diddledan_> saint voyager!
<daftykins> i know someone who keeps buying ancient ones and doing them up to sell, seems like a waste of effort to me :>
<diddledan_> daftykins: you do the same with phones :-p
<daftykins> nah i get given those!
<diddledan_> lol
<zmoylan-pi> they are the equivalent of vintage car market
 * zmoylan-pi pushes box with 10 phones out of sight... :-)
<diddledan_> yah, but those 10 phones are nokias
<diddledan_> they don't count
<diddledan_> anything from the 20th century aren't worth bothering with imo
<zmoylan-pi> only 4-5 nokias. to be dropped into a sock and used to club terminator or dalek into submission :-)
<diddledan_> they won't stand a chance! that's unsporting
<diddledan_> you've got to let them think they have the possibility of winning at least
<zmoylan-pi> that's why they're hidden in a sock
<diddledan_> that's almost as bad as climbing a staircase when pursued by a galick
<diddledan_> garlick*
<daftykins> that reminds me, i've got another dumphone sony ericsson upstairs charging, got given 3 of them to wipe o0
<zmoylan-pi> daleks have climbed stairs since 80s
<diddledan_> garlic*
<diddledan_> htf is that spelt?
<daftykins> garlic yep
<diddledan_> old stinky breaths
<daftykins> hehe, that was one of those cases of saying it so many times to yourself it lost all meaning eh? :D
<daftykins> i did that with amazon this morning
<diddledan_> that's why they have the tank to shield everyone from the stench
<daftykins> "why are we entering a rainforest name to buy things O_O"
<diddledan_> rainforest name because what better way of celebrating the written word than hilighting the fact that you helped destroy a giant forest
<diddledan_> "I feel like helping to destroy an irreplacable natural resource today. TO AMAZON.COM!"
<daftykins> only just ordered it and already reading the BIOS update description *whistle*
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> nutjob
<daftykins> :<
<diddledan_> teehee
<zmoylan-pi> well it is a lenovo so his paranoia is already +3
<daftykins> was that oddjob's brother?
<diddledan_> it's a term of enderement
<daftykins> ah this new Tomb Raider really does look impressive
<diddledan_> but her boobs aren't a giant wedge the width of her chest!
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ghcu8ifx8cj1htq/AADOrNs0b6FyRdsX8T7nc02ea?dl=0
<daftykins> that's not really a consideration when gaming!
<diddledan_> wow that video is epic
<daftykins> mmhmm
<diddledan_> that almost tempts me to have a go
<daftykins> another snap going up after i battle OneDrive
<diddledan_> this is the best graphics! http://tombraiders.net/katie/screenshots/tr1/lara209.jpg
<diddledan_> wow. that lens flare!
<diddledan_> when did games get pretty?
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> d'aww i got a traditional chocolate advent calendar from my olds :P
<daftykins> here's a blast from the past
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pgwf52lgny215ai/IMG_20151126_024032.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> walkman branded, too
<daftykins> entering an APN into that was amusing
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> the thing has wifi! but i don't have the character set to enter my pass...
<zmoylan-pi> well sony only stopped making sony walkman tape players 2-3 years ago
<zmoylan-pi> and they announced they're going to stop making betamax tapes soon i think
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> what about blurries?
<daftykins> well the 4K spec for blurries only just got made!
<daftykins> in the new year everyone will be touting the newer HDR tech, which for all means is yawn
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> why can't we have turkey day today?!
<diddledan> I want to stuff my face till I pass-out!
<diddledan> wait. that's nothing new.
<zmoylan-pi> buy a turkey and do a dry run for crimbo :-)
<diddledan> yeah I was just mentioning it 'cos it's american thanksgiving today
<daftykins> and now we have all their shopping hols but not their food ones!
<zmoylan-pi> at least the internet is a bit faster as they're all stuck at home on home wifi
<diddledan> yeah. sucky!
<diddledan> I want food!
<zmoylan-pi> nick daftykins advent calendar :-P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> Lindt no less!
<diddledan> wb zmoylan-pi
<diddledan> 1i*
<daftykins> it's not even 5am!
<mapps> hi alll;]
<daftykins> \o
<mapps> still cant login to my router;/ sucks
<mapps> stupid thing
<daftykins> u wot m8
<daftykins> not been told the pass?
<mapps> nope;/
<mapps> tried default ones doesnt work
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> why don't you have the password?
<mapps> no idea
<mapps> they didnt tell me it
<mapps> =[
<mapps> seems a bit odd to not make it widely known
<mapps> guess il have to email
<daftykins> seems common practice in NY now
<daftykins> they disable the web admin to the users
<moodoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<moodoo> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<moodoo> morning
<moodoo> :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday and happy Cake Day! ð  http://goo.gl/oKyw2t
<davmor2> JamesTait: Not happy turkey day?
<JamesTait> Piecaken.
<JamesTait> All the way.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSq93Hsn0Bg
<JamesTait> Groovy, brother.
<zmoylan-pi> rasp... pi... zero... https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/
<bashrc_> yes. Probably still needs a blob to boot
<zmoylan-pi> so cheap they're putting it on front of a magazine... :-)
<bashrc_> but might be ok as an irc/xmpp/email server
 * zmoylan-pi pats my little irc pi that also does rss and a few other tasks...
<foobarry> anyone played the tomb raider GO game on android?
<foobarry> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.squareenixmontreal.lcgo&hl=en
<foobarry> wanted to know what the controls were like
<awilkins> The Pi2 in one of those FLIRC cases is a dead professional little thing
<awilkins> The only thing that would improve that Pi Zero is if all the connectors were on one edge
<awilkins> Then you could just yank it out like a Terminator CPU
<awilkins> Hell, you could put a heatsink on it that made it look like a terminator CPU, with that form factor
<foobarry> ridiculuous price for pi zreo
<foobarry> think i would have to buy one to run risc os
<diddledan> pizero can be jewellery: https://twitter.com/uisgebeatha/status/669915012748738560
<diddledan> graham clueless link alert: https://grahamcluley.com/2015/11/plusnet-isnt-acting-safely-password/
<popey> he has a point
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> the reply to his request for info is rather unprofessional
<diddledan> "we're not gonna talk to you" effectively
<diddledan> I think they're doing the head-in-the-sand approach of "if we don't say anything, it's not happening"
<popey> That worked out well for TalkTalk
<diddledan> awesome. my Dad has fixed a dead monitor I had
<diddledan> he's amazeballs
<diddledan> turns out the capacitors had died
 * bashrc_ wonders if he should get a new monitor
<diddledan> it's an old LG flattron - wouldn't power on at all. He's got it showing a testcard now
<zmoylan-pi> are you staring at the smoking remains of a dead monitor now bashrc_? if not, no :-)
<diddledan> 24 inches of pure geek
<zmoylan-pi> my boss got very lucky trying to fix an ancient crt monitor around the millenium.  he was a trained engineer in first job and thought what the hell he could save a few pennies by fixing a slightly wonky monitor
<zmoylan-pi> he let it sit to allow the capacitors to discharge before opening it. but he didn't give it enough time and he melted a screwdriver when he went to remove one
<diddledan> eejit
<zmoylan-pi> we of course offered great support and laughed our heads off :-)
<diddledan> well done :-)
<bashrc_> zmoylan-pi: there's an issue with my laptop screen so I'm wondering if I should get a monitor
<zmoylan-pi> you have to be cruel at these times :-)
<diddledan> it's always the best response when someone burns their eyebrows off
<bashrc_> I'm expecting to get a new laptop next year though so I might not bother
<zmoylan-pi> you could get a decent laptop for the price of a decent monitor bashrc_
<zmoylan-pi> but if it was a good monitor then it could be useful afterwards with a pi doing something else...
<diddledan> or a pizero for whatever you find down the back of your sofa
<zmoylan-pi> wow... just thinking... if i only spent the money i found inserted into pcs on rasp pi zeros.... i'd have 2-3 rasp pi zeros... :-)
<diddledan> shoving Â£20 notes into the floppy drive to pay for amazon orders?
<diddledan> see, kids of today are missing-out on the lack of holes to shove jammy toast into (VCR!)
<zmoylan-pi> new staff members of a video shop point of sales system who inserted money into the floppy drive...
<zmoylan-pi> but can they not shove a half melted chocolate hobnob into your xbox or playstation?
<diddledan> true
<diddledan> gotta love choccy knobknobs
<zmoylan-pi> it's like indiana jones trying to fish them out before they crumble all over the internal boards...
<zmoylan-pi> not the weirdest thing i found lying on a motherboard mind.  that would be rivets...
<diddledan> o_O
<zmoylan-pi> a customer decided to save a penny and have one of their electricians start installing repairing pcs
<zmoylan-pi> he didn't know how to open a pc so would cut the side of and rivet them back on
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> that's nuts
<zmoylan-pi> no not nuts, rivets :-)
<zmoylan-pi> this was not the money saver they hoped for...
<zmoylan-pi> and he did a really nice job on the riveting so you only knew it was rivetted when you saw a case he had opened beside a case he hadn't AND when you found rivets lying on motherboards and bottom of cases
<zmoylan-pi> which shorted out 2-3 pcs
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> I didn't realise I had d/c
<diddledan> I saw a load of netsplit at 19:07 and then nada
<diddledan> morning daftykins
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> seems i did some dialup impressions in my absence, or just popped off for a bit :)
<diddledan> there was a massive netsplit that caught me out earlier
<diddledan> at around 19:07 I disappeared without realising
<diddledan> I hate when I don't realise that I'm not here
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> suddenly nobody wants to talk to us!
<diddledan> it strikes that such absentmindedness could mean that I end up in Scottyland or aussietralia or some such without knowing
<daftykins> just lucky the trains don't run that far i guess, for the latter :>
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> i stayed up this morning and fitted some perspex to my windows!
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ghfwo16aeqwayjg/IMG_20151126_100747.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> does microsoft provide an API for that?
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> 24 condoms are on amazon's black friday
<diddledan> 100% claimed tho
<diddledan> I guess a lot of people think they're gonna get lucky
<diddledan> I wonder how many of those will be disappointed?
<daftykins> i had a great pic from my friend of his 14 month old playing with a strip, biting them apparently
<daftykins> said friends line was "obviously keen for siblings"
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> that Surface Pro 4 despatched \o/
<diddledan> yey
<daftykins> seems next week is going to be my week of glorious deliveries
<daftykins> get to play with all the things then give them back :D
<diddledan> :-D followed by :-(
<daftykins> nah it's deal, means i didn't pay but get all the fun!
<diddledan> kids can be so mean :-( my lil nephew proudly took a "frozen" lunchbox to school only to be picked-on for having a "girls" lunchbox
<daftykins> owned :>
<daftykins> at least he didn't get sent home for it i suppose, like that one in the US with the wonderwoman version
<diddledan> he's only 5 tho :-(
<diddledan> far too young to be concerned over such things imo
<daftykins> nothing like a trial by fire; are you spoiling them again this christmas? :D
<diddledan> yes. yes I am! :-p
<daftykins> ooh what's the plan?
<diddledan> haven't thought that far ahead yet :-)
<daftykins> 'tis mere weeks!
<diddledan> I know :-(
<daftykins> which reminds me i have a gift to put together
<diddledan> comes along far too quick
<daftykins> haha, a friend wanted an accessory UK edition board for the board game 'ticket to ride' which i managed to get for Â£24 on fleaby
<daftykins> *fleabay
<Myrtti> uk edition?
<diddledan> welldone :-)
<Myrtti> such thing exists?
<daftykins> sure does!
<Myrtti> whoa
<daftykins> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ticket-to-Ride-United-Kingdom-And-Pennsylvania-Map-collection-volume-5-UK-/252154863337
<daftykins> only one remains!
<Myrtti> It might be that I'm getting it fir Christmas, judging from dsamples reaction to my 'did you know' question
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i was introduced to this game in the summer by a Texan pal
<Myrtti> It's great
<Myrtti> We've got quite few expansions
<Myrtti> sadly the most expensive version is in Finland
<Myrtti> the anniversary edition of the original
<Myrtti> It's among the rest of the wedding paraphernalia we haven't had shipped to uk yet
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-27
<diddledan> fun ranting on "BSD Now" this week
<daftykins> is that family friendly? :P
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> the family that bsd's together stays together... oo-err... :-P
 * diddledan BSDs zmoylan-pi .. sideways
<daftykins> crikey, it's not high end but - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00S9Q9VS4
<daftykins> 240GB SSD Â£39.99 for mainlanders
 * zmoylan-pi remembers when i could fit my data onto storage that small...
<daftykins> fine for an OS disk :>
<zmoylan-pi> true, but i've just started bumping my dumbphones up to 32gb for music, video and ebooks as 16gb each on 3-4 devices doesn't cut it anymore...
<daftykins> that reminds me, i pulled a couple of 2GB memorystick 2 cards out of sony ericssons i was playing with yesterday :D
 * zmoylan-pi remembers using my nokia n70 with 1gb card.  900mb music, 50mb ebooks with space for photos...
<daftykins> hah
<zmoylan-pi> absolute lifesaver when i went into hospital for an xray and ended up there for 2 weeks
<zmoylan-pi> kept me nice and distracted...
<daftykins> i'm amazed i didn't get told off for using mine in intensive care
<daftykins> i was busy in a heated call with a lady friend who was giving me grief for not asking how long i'd be in, whilst some poor anaesthetist was waiting to have a word
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> the ol' ball n chain :-p
<diddledan> s/lady friend/ol' ball n chain/
<zmoylan-pi> nurses were worried that i never had visitors till i pointed out i was on email, web, twitter, reading, listening to music, comedy and fm radio. ended up showing them how to use the phones they already had
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i couldn't even SSH/RDP home on the free wifi ;_;
<daftykins> guys the new enya album is on sale!
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> i was using prepay data at â¬1 for 50mb a day which using opera mini and google reader lasted all day
 * zmoylan-pi looks at ssd advert from before and sees you could save 6 quid and get 120gb storage instead of 240... what a saving!!
<daftykins> 8D
<zmoylan-pi> by grabthars hammer!!
<daftykins> that SSD could be pretty good in that cheap Lenovo i ordered, already got a buyer too :>
<daftykins> doubt that thing has space for two at once though, that'd be nice
<zmoylan-pi> superglue it to back of screen for cool hacker look :-P
<daftykins> could always pop out the optical i guess ;)
<zmoylan-pi> but then you'd have to download instead of rip everything!!
<daftykins> not me!
<daftykins> pesky amazon deals tempting me, i should leave it be really
<diddledan> by grabthar's hammer. by the sun's of warvan. you shall be avenged.
<diddledan> suns**
<m0nkey_> Good evenin
<daftykins> i have no idea of either of those :>
<zmoylan-1i> watch galaxy quest
<m0nkey_> ^-- awesome movie
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7bo_A6XnUU
<zmoylan-pi> WHAT'S MY NAME?! :-D
<daftykins> my friends in walmart in Texas picking up cheap games on the Black Friday deals 8D
<daftykins> visiting in Feb so i get cheap things \o/
<zmoylan-pi> which you then have to get onto an airplane.  'honestly mr. tsa man it's only 50 rasp pis and a lot of cables..., why are you putting on gloves?'
<daftykins> "why are you lubing up"
<diddledan> fun bit about git in this video at 19 minutes: https://www.usenix.org/conference/lisa15/conference-program/presentation/mickens
<daftykins> my drill just went flat starting another pane! https://www.dropbox.com/s/rlx8t1dofrshep8/IMG_20151127_020955.jpg?dl=0
<zmoylan-pi> drilling at 2am?
<daftykins> yeah it's only quiet :>
<daftykins> i normally don't even vacuum at anti-social hours, so it's all good
<diddledan> roger, roger, check for clearance, clarence, what's your vector, victor, over.
<daftykins> i really would like it if battery tech suddenly had some major jump overnight :>
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y
<daftykins> multi-day laptops and month long smartphones would be ace
<diddledan> nokia
<daftykins> nah, they weren't smart :P
<zmoylan-pi> i had a psion that lasted a week on 2 aa batteries in 90s
<daftykins> still got my 3c somewhere :>
<zmoylan-pi> we need to move to using arm processors in laptops for more power savings
<zmoylan-pi> better screens. like the olpc screen for power savings
<daftykins> nah, then everything'd perform like a glorified calcula... netbook :)
<zmoylan-pi> instead of laptops that use stupid amounts of power to generate heat using inefficient design
<Seeker`> zmoylan-pi: lies
<Seeker`> zmoylan-pi: MIPS not ARM
<zmoylan-pi> as long aas it's not x86
<m0nkey_> Happy Thanksgiving! http://i.imgur.com/IbJ1zMq.jpg
 * zmoylan-pi remembers a pancake tuesday that had a pancake stuck to a 20ft high ceiling...
<zmoylan-pi> but we never took risks with pressure cooker...
<BambooBear> Helloo :)
<m0nkey_> before anyone asks, not my place. just some random picture i found :)
<ali1234> wow, what happened?
<ali1234> that's some pretty impressive damage
<zmoylan-pi> lloks like a faulty or badly used pressure cooker
<daftykins> mmm remember that one
<m0nkey_> I'm out
<m0nkey_> G'night all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> exit
<moodoo> hello al
<zmoylan-pi> that's very specific :-)
<moodoo> alas a typo lol
<zmoylan-pi> al will be devestated to read that :-)
<moodoo> hehe
<davmor2> Morning all
<moodoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> moodoo: why all the lower case dude?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no idea! ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Oh you're back
<davmor2> will the real MooDoo please stand up, please stand up, please stand up
<MooDoo> :)
<andylock1an> hey fella
<andylock1an> how's things?
<czajkowski> Good morning
<directhex> is it? :|
<czajkowski> it is
<czajkowski> it's Friday
<popey> It is freaking excellent.
<czajkowski> it is really!
<foobarry_> anyone manage to snag a magpi mag?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Systems Engineer Day! ð
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperEngineer> morninks SuperMatt
<popey> wheee
<Seeker`> popey: rollercoaster?
<popey> ya
 * Seeker` was talking about net connection speeds, and remembered when popey got superfast broadband for the first time, but couldn't work out why he wasn't getting full speed
<Seeker`> and then you found the 10Mbit switch :P
<popey> :)
<popey> that was fun
<MooDoo> ah ddod against freenode servers, no wonder i'm getting lots of lag
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTaKDnSIb4c
<foobarry> just cried with laughter
<directhex> why is unity-control-centre not listing chrome as a browser option?
<foobarry> google-chrome?
<arsenip> lso
<MooDoo> ?
<SuperEngineer> little sqirrels only?
<diddledan_> surely it's london symphony orchestra
<wizzkidd> im in a little predicament, my headless ubuntu server seems to have hung but is partially accessible.  Can anyone help me remotely reboot the server?  I can ping the box still,  I can no longer ssh to the box, I can start a xrdp session, but it freezes at authentication.  I have webmin installed which is accessible, but I cannot get to the "restart" section.  Has anyone got any ideas?
<daftykins> not webmin on ubuntu i hope.
<daftykins> plug a keyboard in -> ctrl+alt+del :>
<daftykins> oh i see you crossposted that.
<diddledan_> webmin?!
<diddledan_> eep
<daftykins> not even supported :P
<diddledan_> it's not even in the repo IIRC
<diplo> they have their own
<daftykins> pesky amazon taking all my money, BSG full set was Â£60 down from Â£160 just earlier :(
<diddledan_> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> vhs or betamax? :-)
<awilkins> CAll me when Babylon 5 is cheap
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: laserdisc
<wizzkidd> ignoring the fact i have webmin, is there any advice out there, i'll discuss webmin and its recommended alternative afterwards! lol
<daftykins> i already suggested something
<diddledan_> wizzkidd: I believe we were talking about the merits of webmin because 1) we don't know a solution, or 2) we thought daftykins's suggestion was most appropriate
<wizzkidd> daftykins: thanks, but a sensible solution, because if I had physical access to the box at the moment, I would have bounced it myself already.
<awilkins> Does the box have a lights-out card?
<wizzkidd> diddledan_: re: webmin, i threw that in the description of my problem because its one of the few remaining ways I have left to communicate with the box
<wizzkidd> awilkins: unfortunately not
<daftykins> wizzkidd: it is sensible, we just can't read your mind to know your setup...
<daftykins> i think you're up a creek without a paddle
 * diddledan_ rows
<wizzkidd> daftykins: it seems so.  I thought i'd put it out there anyway as there is always a slim chance that someone may suggest something I havent thought of
<daftykins> so is it co-lo or what?
<awilkins> Yeah, if there was a simple way to reboot Linux boxes without having SSH access or another service designed to let you do that... people would use it to ruin your day
<wizzkidd> awilkins: fair point
<diddledan_> awilkins, wizzkidd, you could try DDoSing it to see if you can force it to reboot by magic :-p
<daftykins> although if webmin has a URL to hit to enact a reboot, perhaps rather than needing to reach the restart section of its' UI, you can just paste in the link direct?
<daftykins> i don't have a clue about webmin though so that's a total guess
<diddledan_> if it was windows 95 I believe there was a packet of death for that?
<wizzkidd> diddledan_: that was the sort of thing i was thinking. lol. i already searched through all the cached urls typed into my browser, lol
<wizzkidd> diddledan_: wasn't it something like con>con or something like that in win 95? wow, thats going back a bit
<daftykins> wouldn't an example be available online?
<wizzkidd> ok, so... i've gathered that there is a bad smell with regards to installing webmin on ubuntu.  Care to fill me in?  My guess is its vulnerable or something?
<diddledan_> it's had a bad history of breaking stuff afaik
<daftykins> !webmin
<lubotu3> webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system.
<diddledan_> ^ that
<wizzkidd> oooww
<wizzkidd> i did notice that systemd management wasn't included
 * diddledan_ petpet the bot
<zmoylan-pi> out of the mouth of bots...
<wizzkidd> ok, so with that said, is there an alternative gui web service that can be used to manage the server remotely?
<diddledan_> despite all the derision levied at systemd for shoehorning everything into it counter to the "do one thing well" philosophy, I actually quite like it
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: *fart*
 * zmoylan-pi schedules diddledan_ for re-education camp come the revolution...
<diddledan_> ooh
<diddledan_> is that fun?
<diddledan_> like bandcamp?
<awilkins> Your best avenue is probably to find a human in the vicinity who can poke the reset switch.
<zmoylan-pi> you'll love pascal :-)
<diddledan_> remote-hands ftw
<daftykins> remote jazz hands!
<awilkins> Quadcopter drone with a poking stick
<diddledan_> lol
<zmoylan-pi> a server power switch seeking drone...
<diddledan_> what about an RPG?
<diddledan_> that'll knock it offline.. the reboot part may be a bit too much to expect tho, I guess
<daftykins> my wealthy client is apparently getting a top end DJI Phantom drone with Sony 4K camera attached for Christmas
<diddledan_> daftykins: :-o
<daftykins> i actually find the things stupid, but eh
<diddledan_> daftykins: get him to pay you monies!
<daftykins> haha
<davmor2> diddledan_: oh you mean nethack
<daftykins> no doubt i'll end up doing something with the video
<zmoylan-pi> see how good it stands up to a supersoaker :-)
<daftykins> i told him he'd need a new screen to watch the video 1:1 ;)
<diddledan_> davmor2: I was thinking more the explosive kind rather than the dungeon kind
<daftykins> XD
<davmor2> 0a.d.
<diddledan_> nethack is badly named.. not only is it offline, but you're not cracking things either
<daftykins> w... what on earth do you do in it then o0
<diddledan_> daftykins: well certainly you don't hack the net
<zmoylan-pi> you run around wishing it was rogue :-)
<zmoylan-pi> and then pray you never see a D
<diddledan_> hmm, it should be payday today
<wizzkidd> any suggestions as an alternative to webmin guys?
<daftykins> nope i always suggested doing it the proper way so you never forget, depends how senior you are though
<daftykins> the other day we had some kid come in trying to set up an ecommerce site with nginx that couldn't even get the site working... can only imagine how safe those transactions are gonna be
<davmor2> popey: the lego pic is that a site thing, if so I'd be more impressed if you could tell it a size and it gave you a parts list and plan, lego jigsaws ftw
<popey> heh, no it's a python script which takes any image and makes one of those
<davmor2> popey: I reckon there has to be a way to make that into a real image and then build it up with a hook at the back to hang it or a stand a frame :D
<Seeker`> but you're not cracking things either
<Seeker`> ^ skulls maybe
<daftykins> diddledan_: that win10 install size compression, does it do it automatically on that Surface of yours yet, or still a manual task?
<diddledan_> it was already done when I tried to force it
<daftykins> ooh neat
<daftykins> could be auto then
<diddledan_> that was way back near the original release, too, so I guess the RTM 10240 build did it automatically
<daftykins> very nice :>
<daftykins> got my 10586 build on a flash drive so i'm set for that Surface 4 showing up
<daftykins> right, i need to go enquire at the post office how to send a phone to England without being clobbered for tax at the other end
<mapps> well reset router still cant login
<mapps> emailed umee and no reply;(
<daftykins> what are you wanting to do, change the wifi name + pass?
 * diddledan_ upgrading gentoos again
<daftykins> does that mean blasting it out of a cannon? i hope so :>
<davmor2> diddledan_: cheaper than a heater
<daftykins> the folk in #kodi get really offended and take it so personally when i laugh that they're having issues getting simple things going because they're using gentoo or arch
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> but i mean honestly, gentoo on an HTPC? talk about wrong tools for the job :P
<daftykins> "sorry guys we can't watch the film i have to recompile Kodi"
<diddledan_> you could put the compilation output on the TV and say to your kids "here, kids, watch the matrix"
<daftykins> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan_> it's too cute: https://twitter.com/cutesyapp/status/659536419761889281
<DJones> My dog says "ooh, breakfast" :)
<diddledan_> grr
<DJones> Yeah, that was the 2nd noise the dog made
<daftykins> :D
<davmor2> DJones: is that after you said no my breakfast
<DJones> There's only one breakfast that is real, full english
<daftykins> gah still getting Deborah's sky subscription emails
<daftykins> i phoned them up and they told me they can't tell their customer they've got the wrong email signed up on their account due to 'data protection'
<DJones> daftykins: Maybe email them and tell them you'll charge them Â£50 per unsolicited emaail
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> worth a go!
<penguin42> daftykins: If they've got your email signed up to it, can't you do a password reset on the account and they'll send the email to your account?
<DJones> I did it with with some spam I was getting from a well known reputable business that had a similar situation and the emails stopped pretty quickly
<penguin42> a respectable business?
<DJones> Didn't get any money out of it, but at least the spam stopped
<daftykins> penguin42: hmm, not familiar with the sky site but that might work yeah; unless it requires a member ID or some such for login
<diddledan_> I'd hack the account as penguin42 suggests and then close it down :-p
<DJones> penguin42: As in a well known supermarket
<daftykins> DJones: ah nice!
<daftykins> i've done it with a few folks in the US that didn't honour my contact discussion
<daftykins> one lady was using me as a personal spam filter the first once or twice, then i reset her accounts and cancelled her orders.
<daftykins> one day i got an email explaining why her orders had been cancelled :)
<daftykins> that was very entertaining
<DJones> Must admit, mine was with somebody from the US
<davmor2> I got a set of head hunters where you reply remove and nothing else and it removes you my butt does it, so I might go for the Â£50 idea with them :)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> one guy i know is so energetic about his spam blocking that i've been asked to find out why he's not receiving legitimate things before, only to find he's put them on his block list
<pwaring> davmor2: I've found that the 'remove me or pay Â£50/email' line gets the attention of most recruiters
<pwaring> Whereas 'please take me off your list' doesn't
<mapps> hi
<mapps> so why cant i get in this routers config gah;/ wanted to port forward so can access my vpn :/
<penguin42> mapps: Have you considered it might just be spite on the part of the router?
<wizzkidd> i have messed up some files on my ubuntu server 15.10.  I incorrectly symlinked some "libz*" files, then unlinked them, and now my system is throwing up "segmentation fault" errors.  I am not able to boot the server any longer, and I have managed to get to a root prompt using the recovery option in the grub menu.  It seems Python is broken i think, and "libz.so.1" cannot be found either.  I am unable to run any apt-get command b
<penguin42> wizzkidd: messy, you need a way to copy a file from another machine - or a live boot
<penguin42> wizzkidd: Have you got a 15.10 live boot drive?
<wizzkidd> penguin42: i have the 15.10 boot usb that i used to install the OS, im guessing that should have a live boot option
<penguin42> wizzkidd: I think there's a recovery option in it, but I doubt it will fix that
<penguin42> wizzkidd: But, boot, mount your servers hard drive and copy it's libz.so.1 into the right place
<penguin42> wizzkidd: If you're lucky that'll be enough for you to clean up properly
<wizzkidd> penguin42: im struggling to boot from the damn usb at the moment arghhh
<penguin42> wizzkidd: Ah, well it's either that, or if you've got another 15.10 system use a usb stick or something to copy the file
<wizzkidd> penguin42: ive only got just the one ubuntu box, i'll keep trying to get this thing to boot from usb.
<wizzkidd> penguin42: would a recovery repair the sym links?
<penguin42> wizzkidd: I doubt it - do you know what you screwed up?
<penguin42> wizzkidd: Do you still have /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/linuz.so.?.?.?
<wizzkidd> i believe i was following various guides on installing PILL for Ubuntu 15.10
<wizzkidd> it was explaining that debian uses a different location, hence creating the sym links
<penguin42> do you still have that file on the system?
<wizzkidd> i though i created the link incorrectly and so i unlinked some of the .so files, and thats when it went wrong
<wizzkidd> errrr...
<penguin42> sorry, that should end in libz.so.?.?.?  where ?.?.?  the numbers depend on your install
<wizzkidd> i have lots of files still in /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
<penguin42> for me it's /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so.1.2.8
<wizzkidd> but i dont see "linuz.so"
<penguin42> wizzkidd: Sorry I typo'd that
<penguin42> wizzkidd: Do you have the libz.so. with the numbers after it
<wizzkidd> yes, i have a file called libz.so.1.2.8
<wizzkidd> it has no link
<penguin42> excellent - what does ls -lz of that file  show ?
<penguin42> actually, drop the z
<penguin42> just ls -l
<wizzkidd> it doesnt have a "->"
<penguin42> great
<penguin42> wizzkidd: Now, which file do you think you messed up?
<wizzkidd> ummm
<wizzkidd> i think it was in /usr/....???
<penguin42> ok, try a different question - what error do you get?
<wizzkidd> i'll search my url history to see if i can find the guide i was following
<wizzkidd> libz.so.1: cannot open shared object file
<wizzkidd> i used to have a file called "libz.so.1", that seems to be missing from /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
<penguin42> wizzkidd: OK what does ls -l /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so.1  show ?
<wizzkidd> No such file of directory
<penguin42> great, ok do the following command
<penguin42> wizzkidd: ln -s libz.so.1.2.8 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so.1
<wizzkidd> aghh, it threw me the error "Segmentation fault"
<penguin42> the ln  did ?
<wizzkidd> yeah
<penguin42> then you've got something else broken other than the libz
<wizzkidd> damn it
<wizzkidd> "apt-get" gives me the same error
<wizzkidd> these were the symlinks i created when I broke it all, i think...
<wizzkidd> sudo ln -s /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so.1 /lib/
<wizzkidd> sudo ln -s /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libfreetype.so.6 /usr/lib/
<wizzkidd> sudo ln -s /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libjpeg.so.62 /usr/lib/
<wizzkidd> i think it actually broke when i performed "unlink" on all 3
<penguin42> it seems unlikely the freetype or jpeg broke stuff to the point of giving them segs
<wizzkidd> i remember it dying in the middle of doing an apt-get straight after: sudo apt-get build-dep python-imaging
<wizzkidd> could it be that those 2 packages were somehow only partially installed when it died, causing python to break too?
<penguin42> difficult to tell, ln -s   should have very few dependencies
<wizzkidd> this is painful
<wizzkidd> penguin42: i will persevere trying to boot from the live usb and see if there is a repair option.  In the mean time, i will rebuild my server in a VM, and take a snapshot as I go along, then once I am happy I will P2V it.  It may sound a little long winded, but hopefully this way I'm more resilient.
<wizzkidd> I meant V2P :)
<foobarry> what's that app a bit like youtube-dl but acts like a poor mans spotify?
<foobarry> ah mps-youtube i think
<daftykins> crikey :P
<daftykins> tough times when you've gotta bypass an ad supported service foobarry ;)
<diddledan_> what's going in in colorado?
<diddledan_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34950261
<foobarry> heh, wanted to download audio to listen to on mp3 player
<penguin42> diddledan_: Some things are saying it's an abortion clinic
<diddledan_> penguin42: "planned parenthood"**
<diddledan_> "so you can plan more effectively, we offer free terminations" o_O
<diddledan_> </troll>
<daftykins> shouldn't it be "unplanned parenthood planned" ?
<diddledan_> daftykins: you'dathunk
<diddledan_> I'm not opposed to abortions, but calling it "planned parenthood" kinda seems like false advertising
<diddledan_> "hello Doris, in for your monthly?"
<daftykins> that's quite the early 20th century name choice :>
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> it was the first I could come up wiht
<diddledan_> obviously my offspring will have terrible names
<diddledan_> maybe I should have one of each and call them Boris and Doris
<daftykins> oh i am reminded of a question to ask of you mainlander folk
<daftykins> is it actually a thing, to encounter undesirables speaking such street language as "fam" to address one another within the cities?
<diddledan_> I wouldn't know, I'm posh :-p
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> too posh to even meet up with our dear shauno :(
<daftykins> who we still haven't asked back
<diddledan_> I figure he'll slink back in eventually
<daftykins> i've extended an olive branch nonetheless
<daftykins> but i kinda want the olives back
<penguin42> hmm, have I missed any useful retailers searching for bargains?
<daftykins> you can't go wrong with http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00S9Q9VS4 sir
<penguin42> that is tempting, not that I really need one
<daftykins> neither did i, but that doesn't seem to be what these pesky deal days are about :(
<daftykins> hmm some friends that bought a place recently could probably do with a powerline kit since they don't have any proper infrastructure
<penguin42> yeh in principal I can think of a couple of places I could put an SSD
<daftykins> i mean it's obviously low end, but it's still MLC NAND which is nice
<diddledan_> wow, a friend just posted that up norf they've got an ASDA store with petrol under a pound per litre
<daftykins> thems Guernsey prices :P
<penguin42> diddledan_: Apparently they're doing it as a black friday thing
<diddledan_> bah
<diddledan_> that's sucky
<daftykins> quick drive up north to get some ;)
<penguin42> but I think it's not much more than that at the moment anyway is it? Only about 104? (I'm not a driver)
<daftykins> penguin42: ^5 me neither!
<diddledan_> it's about 109.9 here (varies but that's the average)
<penguin42> daftykins: Dabs have the 120GB Sandisk for 26.97 (one/customer - 34.97-#8 voucher code)
<daftykins> same "plus" model SSD? crikey
<daftykins> ty sir
<penguin42> daftykins: https://www.dabs.com/products/120gb-ssd-plus-sata-6gb-s-2-5--solid-state-drive-B23F.html
<daftykins> wow! i had the amazon 240GB model for Â£33 delivered :D
<penguin42> daftykins: yeh so I've spent 37 on one of the 120GB's, a couple of #1.80 4GB uSDs and 2x2.98 16GB thumb drives
<daftykins> did you miss the amazon one?
<penguin42> no, but since 120 is enough, it's #6 cheaper!
 * penguin42 was going to buy 2 but the discount code only worked for one
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> i really need to change those RAID notifications, i keep thinking i have a friend at midnight on Fridays :P
<penguin42> it tells you when it's going in to check?
<daftykins> starting a verify, then the result when complete if all is well
<daftykins> if not, a nice spam of bad sectors / sector remaps / port resets / etc :)
<penguin42> it would be better not to know until about 9am on Monday morning
<daftykins> precisely!
<daftykins> that's what i've said to myself and yet done nothing about it for ages
<daftykins> in fact lets sort it :)
<daftykins> i did once agonise over it all weekend when someones had a bad disk
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-28
<daftykins> yay done at last :P
<penguin42> hehe
<daftykins> didn't take that long naturally, just #ubuntu support delays me :>
<daftykins> midnight of monday morning is the new time \o/
<wizzkidd> penguin42: hi, are you still around? i just managed to boot from my usb at last. lol
<penguin42> heyhey
<penguin42> wizzkidd: However back a few hours ago you thought you'd just lost two or three files and that's an easy fix, but then we figured out that everything was segfaulting left and right
<wizzkidd> penguin42: indeed, so I guess the path I need to go down, and do with some assistance with is, reinstalling over the top? is that possible?
<penguin42> wizzkidd: Why over-the-top rather than nuke and start from clean?
<wizzkidd> penguin42: tbh I have installed and configured so much, and really didnt want to start from fresh :/
<daftykins> wizzkidd: long drive out to it, was it? :(
<penguin42> wizzkidd: That might be tricky unless you've got /home on a separate partition and it's still risky
<wizzkidd> penguin42: i have a backup of home :)
<penguin42> wizzkidd: OK, so nuke it and reinstall home
<wizzkidd> *gulp*
<wizzkidd> a question a little off track... i've previously installed xrdp and xfce onto ubuntu server 15.10 and can rdp from my windows machine to the serverf fine.  In the past I made sure that I had installed the "ubuntu-desktop" package as a pre-req assuming this is probably vital (or contains vital packages) for the xrdp to work.  Does anyone know if "ubuntu-desktop" is required for xrdp to work (bearing in mind that I use xrdp with t
<daftykins> that's a bit of a shotgun approach
<daftykins> ubuntu-desktop is a metapackage that contains all the cruft like libre-office and so on
<daftykins> but you have a remotely hosted server and you're installing GUI components? i would not be doing that :)
<wizzkidd> daftykins: its not remotely hosted, its my own physical machine, although i hardly physically use it, i tend to use web gui's and ssh as much as possible
<daftykins> so when you said you couldn't reset it earlier, it was just in another room?
<wizzkidd> daftykins: I was at work, so yeah.  I was asking in order to see if I could learn something new, as you do :)
<wizzkidd> daftykins: i found it hard to lessen the amount of urgency in my voice(typing) lol
<daftykins> experiment on non-vital systems XD
<wizzkidd> daftykins: agreed!!
<wizzkidd> daftykins: although we all learn from our mistakes.  I'm in the process of rebuilding the physical, but also rebuilding a VM too :)
<daftykins> sounds like a plan, i nearly said if it were a VM there'd have been a method of control
<wizzkidd> daftykins: If i screwed up again in the future, I'm hoping that with the VM, I can possibly V2P it which hopefully would speed up the rebuild process (should it ever need to be done AGAIN)
<daftykins> that sounds pretty odd an approach to me
<daftykins> run the services in a VM, snapshot prior to doing risky things
<daftykins> or backup often :>
<wizzkidd> daftykins: yes, of course I will snapshot as and when.  But im talking about a way to do DR on the physical server in the shortest time frame
<wizzkidd> if the VM dies, thats no big deal cause I can roll back
<daftykins> well if you really cared, you'd have a reliable disk setup with some redundancy
<wizzkidd> i have zfs setup for raid0 and my backups save to that location
<daftykins> RAID 0? you've got to be kidding
<wizzkidd> sorry, RAID1
<daftykins> i'm going to sleep now, DR has nothing to do with that setup :>
<wizzkidd> ok
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> brrrr
<knightwise> hey peeps
<zmoylan-pi> i think everyone is out looting, pillaging and christmas shopping
<knightwise> lol
<knightwise> its not even december yet !
<knightwise> I did my (company) xmass shopping
<knightwise> bought a surface pro 4
<zmoylan-pi> the early looter gets no concussion :-P
<knightwise> true. I'm shopping online this year
<zmoylan-pi> try not to get burned sipping your cocoa :-)
<knightwise> Been to Aachen today
<knightwise> too crowded for my case
<knightwise> my taste
<sebsebseb> hi
<knightwise> hey sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> knightwise: seems can get mouse and keyboard working on Ubuntu phone via a device
<knightwise> via what device ?
<sebsebseb> knightwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pur-e0eZR80
 * sebsebseb is thinking of  buying an otg device now
<sebsebseb> hub I should say
<SuperEngineer> wow! I've always wanted to a device and device working on device via a device ;-)
<SuperEngineer> to  ^ have
<sebsebseb> SuperEngineer: yeah it's a way to have the mouse and keyboard working,  before the real convergence comes I guess
<sebsebseb> hence needing to to use certain things
<wizzkidd> hi i recently performed a reinstallation of ubuntu 15.10 over the top of my current 15.10 install which I was having problems with.  I'm just reinstalling some of the programs I had previously, however I think my previous OS had a newer kernel, uname -r shows me "4.2.0-040200-generic" but I think when I compile anything, it is using the currently installed kernel which is "4.2.0-18-generic".  Can anyone assist me out of this sti
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-29
<Azi_> Hello people! Anyone around that could help me get Ubuntu 15.10 installed on a laptop that boots from a 32-bit uefi exclusively? I am at my wits' end. It's the Asus X205TA, https://www.asus.com/us/Notebooks/ASUS_EeeBook_X205TA/specifications/
<daftykins> the top google results discuss how to install and boot using 32-bit EFIs.
<daftykins> also, you'll get more active users in #ubuntu - since it's midnight
<Azi_> I know, I have read through all of them, this is  WIP for about 1.5 months now. I really cannot figure it out unfortunately.
<Azi_> And you are probably right
<Azi_> I'll move there then
<daftykins> well it's really not that hard, definitely seen the answers all online
<penguin42> 32bit UEFI is hard
<penguin42> or at least it used to be
<Azi_> To me it is anyway, I'm a bit of a newbie
<Azi_> But if you are going to call me a noob please help me, otherwise please refrain from doing so :)
<penguin42> hmm looks like people have automated bits of it at least
<daftykins> nobody said noob and that's not how we are, Azi_
<Azi_> Yes, Debian boots 32-bit efis natively using a special build. However it came with a kernel that is too old for the drivers that I need and installing a new one on the machine with make was impossible since it was not preinstalled. I tried dpkg -i the .debs but the deps just would not end
<daftykins> yeah we're not gonna help with debian (:
<Azi_> Sure, I did not expect you to
<penguin42> daftykins: I'm not sure it's that easy; it looks like a case of having to copy an EFI file in and install 32bit grub
<daftykins> yeah that's easy in my book
<penguin42> if it works
<daftykins> don't see why it wouldn't since methods are all over the bug pages + guides + blogs etc
<penguin42> yeh
<daftykins> user came back in #ubuntu anywho
<penguin42> hmm never bought off aliexpress
<penguin42> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CHUWI-HI8-Dual-Boot-Android-4-4-Window8-1-IPS-8-0-Inch-1920-1200-Z3736F/32404202301.html  is way too good a spec
<daftykins> cheap tat! cheap 'cause it's already been abandoned probably
<daftykins> maybe that's fine if you're going to use ubuntu though :)
<zmoylan-pi> or the keyboard comes without the letter e... :-)
<penguin42> yeh it's an x86 with apparently a highres display
<daftykins> after we were talking about those SSDs i found a 480GB for Â£70 delivered
<zmoylan-pi> now that sounds pretty good, what manufacturer?
<daftykins> it was mostly TLC based NAND though which is far from ideal
<daftykins> SanDisk Ultra II it was
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh, but SanDisk normally know how to keep the bits on their flash
<daftykins> i wouldn't think that a given since Samsung have been doing it longer and have had more issues with one of their models' firmware
<daftykins> ugh that guy is not taking the hint about not PMing people
<penguin42> longer than sandisk?
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> i nearly went for it but decided no, now it's back up to Â£85 delivered i think
<daftykins> spent way too much these past few days :>
<zmoylan-pi> should be called red credit card bill day :-)
<daftykins> or week!
<daftykins> saw a very nice 2560x1440 27" Asus LCD on ebuyer.com for Â£160 though
<penguin42> I've been kind of tempted by a 4k monitor, but it's kind of silly in the sense I've got a HD 22 and 24 on my desk, and an unopened 24 on the floor (that's been there for 18 months)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> i'd get annoyed using 2+ that aren't identical, due to the different colours etc
<zmoylan-pi> you could hang it over the window and stream the outside when you want to look out? :-)
 * penguin42 doesn't care, vi is good on both of them
<daftykins> but only stream the summer!
<zmoylan-pi> and have videos of rollercoasters and sea views for when visitors arrive
<zmoylan-pi> watching the horizon whizzing around or sloping from side to side will trigger motion sickness in a few
<daftykins> still got this funky NAS to play with
 * zmoylan-pi listens to wind howl outside...
<daftykins> alright, two intel SSDs with no partitions, surely that's enough for a little appliance NAS to take them over
<daftykins> http://mybookworld.wikidot.com/ultra-fast-install-for-my-book-world-edition-i-and-ii-white
<daftykins> ah-har so the NAS isn't bright enough to initialise disks by itself
<daftykins> that's brilliant, full set of scripts for preparing the disks... just had to edit it to set 'sdx', serial numbers and its' MAC address... then it downloads the latest firmware from WD automatically and prepares the drive :D
<penguin42> updating the firmware is an interesting trick
<daftykins> nah not an update, it obtains a full copy of the original then extract it onto the disk with dd
<daftykins> after partitioning
<penguin42> oh is this NAS firmware or drive firmware?
<intrbiz> I'd avoid Dell rebadged Sandisk SSDs, performance of them is pants compared to Crucial MX200 or Samsung 850 EVO
<daftykins> penguin42: NAS yep
<penguin42> ah ok
<daftykins> oh my word it's back in action :D
<daftykins> i've put 2 x 40GB intel SSDs in it
<penguin42> 2x40 - huge :-)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> they are the only spare drives i have identical for it to be tested with
<daftykins> the web admin always used to absolutely crawl, now it's instant
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> 11/28 17:54:28 [HDD Status] Hard drive 3 and 4 not manufactured by WD. My Book World Edition II can only operate using WD hard drives. Replace the drive.
<daftykins> rubbish :P
<directhex> my NAS is too slow to let me watch HD video over UPnP. its crummy processor can't send the data fast enough
<directhex> it's not a transcoding issue - the files are already in the right format
<directhex> it just can't do plain file serving over upnp fast enough to not skip
<Myrtti> Nabee compression socks have a sale https://m.facebook.com/home.php#!/story.php?story_fbid=718677388269934&id=161532537317758
<xplora1a> directhex, are you sure it is the CPU, have you eliminated network, just asking
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<directhex> xplora1a: the network is entirely capable of handling the bandwidth, so if it's a bandwidth issue, that's still on the NAS
<directhex> even 100mbit ethernet is more than enough for blu-ray dumps
<zmoylan-pi> unless some device is acting up and flooding the network
<pwaring> And assuming every point on the path has 100mb/s
 * pwaring tried to transfer several GB over wireless once
<diddledan> evenin
<Azelphur> Hey folks, got an app that is in a ppa but Ubuntu wants to use the one from its own mirrors, how do I fix that?
<Azelphur> Specifically for deluged, the Ubuntu package is a bit naff (lacks an upstart script) while the official deluge ppa does not
<pwaring> If you add the ppa using the instructions on the ppa page, Ubuntu shuld use the PPA version in preference to its own package
<pwaring> I do that to get up to date versions of software like Ansible and Atom
<pwaring> specifically: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:user/ppa-name
<pwaring> e,g,: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ansible/ansible
<Azelphur> pwaring: nah, it's using the one from its repo because it's "newer" http://pastebin.com/LtE8wd32
<pwaring> oh
<Azelphur> might just pull the init script in and then use Ubuntus package
<pwaring> In that case I think you can pin a particular version
<pwaring> Never had to do that in Ubuntu
<Azelphur> yea, then I don't get updates though :P
<pwaring> I'm not sure if you can have it both ways
<pwaring> Unless you create your own PPA :)
<Azelphur> yea, I'll probably just pull the init script in
<Azelphur> seems the best way :)
<pwaring> You could ask on the mailing list, someone who does more on this than me might help :))
<Azelphur> yea it's no big deal, the packages aren't that different an upgrade should go smoothly
<directhex> Azelphur: "apt-cache policy pkgname" will tell you which versions apt knows about, and the priorities it's given to different versions. may help diagnose
<daftykins> as mentioned it was version # based so wasn't gonna happen
<Azelphur> I'm really confused about umasks, I have a umask of 0002 on my system, which according to everything I know would have me great files that are only writable by other (everything is off) what's the deal?
<daftykins> great?
<Azelphur> daftykins: 0002 is what a normal user has, a normal user by default does not create files that are only writable by other
<Azelphur> eg with a umask of 0002 I touch test and I get -rw-rw-r--
<daftykins> i wondered if you meant s/great/create/ was all
<penguin42> it's the opposite isn't it
<penguin42> so the '2' is masking out the w ?
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> ah I see
<Azelphur> and 0 I guess does nothing then
<Azelphur> penguin42: I'm still trying to figure out how to get rwxrwxr-x as a umask
<Azelphur> and failing :<
<penguin42> Azelphur: How do you mean ?
<Azelphur> penguin42: I want files created by the user to be rwxrwx-x
<Azelphur> I tried setting 0072 but no luck
<penguin42> Azelphur: The application asks for a mode (say r/w) and that gets combined with the umask; so what you want only works if the application asks to create something rwx in the first place
<Azelphur> by default the init script sets 0027, which gets rwxr-x---, maybe I should change that 2 to a 0
<Azelphur> the application uses the default umask, I've been changing it
<Azelphur> yay, 0007 got me what I wanted :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Each of the last 3 digits is the same, for user/group/other,  and each digit is then read/write/execute (4,2,1 I think)
<Azelphur> yea, I was a little confused as to why there are 4 digits and not 3
<diddledan> Azelphur: a unix mode is four octal numbers 0000 thru 7777. you can ignore the first octet in chmod commands and such though. a umask is a different octal number which is subtracted from a specified mode which is usually 0777 during file creation calls to derive the value to actually assign the file. so a umask of 0002 subtracted from 0777 will derive the permission of 0775. the permissions octal number, being four
<diddledan>  values, assigns the "special flags e.g. sticky", owner, group, other.
<Azelphur> thanks :)
<diddledan> the reason the umask is called a "mask" is because the numbers are actually combined using a binary OR mechanism which is very efficient
<diddledan> so the binary bits in the mask cancel out the binary bits in the requested permissions value
<diddledan> I think it's OR, anway. my boolean logic is weak
<daftykins> i was gonna try and say they might get ANDd or NANDd but i'm no mathemagician
<diddledan> ello daftykins
<daftykins> o hai der
<daftykins> no reply from mr.shauno :(
<diddledan> you spelt "dear" wrong :-p
<diddledan> and hello darling
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> one might wager i did a lot wrong there ^_^
<daftykins> that reminded me of Blackadder
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I might start making weird laughing noises
<diddledan> like stephen fry's character
<daftykins> do you have a questionable 'tache?
<diddledan> there's a lot questionable about me :-p
<daftykins> yay for the week ahead of deliveries
<diddledan> ooh. toys
<daftykins> yep :D
<daftykins> laptop, SSD, blurry set, surface 4, phone screen :D
<diddledan> why do PC monitors come in 16:9 instead of 16:10 these days?
<daftykins> idiot pressure i would expect
<diddledan> I've paired up two from different generations but because one is older than the other they're different heights
<diddledan> due to 16:9 vs 16:10
<daftykins> doh!
<diddledan> the taller one has 1920x1200 and the shorter one 1920x1080
<daftykins> arr my pair of 2408s are of the former, 'tis a nice res
<diddledan> I just don't get why PC monitors need to be the same ratio as TVs at all
<diddledan> I like wide-style layout, but don't see the need to be exactly TV-shaped
<daftykins> shared panel production could factor in
<diddledan> I guess
<daftykins> what i laugh at is the industry 'caught up' by going wide, then cinema went to 21:9
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> we're stuck with TVs being 16:9 now
<diddledan> all television video is produced in 16x9 and it just means we add a bit of blackbar for cinema
<diddledan> it's still way better than playing a cinema 21:9 on a 4x3 tv
<daftykins> i'm sure i read Kodi was meant to be introducing some feature in the next version that allows you to watch 4:3 somehow converted to make use of your wide TV without distortion o0
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> does not compute
<diddledan> voodoo!
<diddledan> https://boingboing.net/2015/11/29/millennials-are-cheap-because.html
<daftykins> shift about material culture? yeah right when they all covet tablets and smartphones
 * diddledan fondles
<daftykins> trust you to link to a site with that name :P
<daftykins> that power drill possessing lass image is... novel
<diddledan> yeah I was just looking at that gif
<daftykins> i think it's matching my music
<diddledan> I'm unsure what she's supposed to represent
<daftykins> hey if you delete the '2' she's slower!
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> don't you find it odd how advertising companies don't have any adverts on their own pages?
<diddledan> e.g. http://rubiconproject.com
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> they speak a foreign language on that site: "Seller Cloud enables you to use your 1st party data to sell reserved audiences to the buyers who are in demand."
<daftykins> that hurt my brain
<diddledan> "connects sellers across a global landscape of trusted, high-quality buyers. Maximize yield for your inventory and audiences across all screens and formats"
<diddledan> seriously they're just putting random buzzwords together and hoping it sounds good
<daftykins> they don't think it be like it is, but it do - sir
<diddledan> that was a film that was so outrageous that it was fun: the a team
<diddledan> "they're shooting at the plane".. "no, they're trying to fly that tank"
<diddledan> or similar lines - I forget the actual quote but the essence was "they're trying to fly that tank"
<daftykins> ja :D
<daftykins> hey i still have that! *plays*
<diddledan> grrr @ english mis-use: "they utilise their unique talents and try to clear their names and find the true culprit" <-- the first "and" should be "to"
<daftykins> i find 'and' is used to chain together anything folk want these days :<
<diddledan> like people saying "I'll try and find foo" <-- try TO find foo!
<daftykins> this are shenanigans up of which we shall not put!
<daftykins> *these :/
<diddledan> "I went and I looked for sweeties and I found some and I bought them and I ate them and then we went to the cinema and watched a cool movie and went home and played scrabble and my sister was funny and she put a naughty word and I laughed
<diddledan> ^ a kid having just discovered "and" :-p
<diddledan> -_- http://www.amazon.com/b?node=8037720011&ref=tsm_1_tw_s_amzn_290791026&linkId=19147631
<penguin42> phew, it's not something else diddledan is going to make me buy
<diddledan> teeeheee
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> the video is nice; (on mute) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXo_d6tNWuY&feature=youtu.be
<daftykins> "please check your garden" - oh no the bulldog is sunbathing out there! *AROOOOOO!*
<daftykins> where's diddledan? he'd enjoy that line
<daftykins> diddledan: ah the chopper flight at the start of The A Team is great
<diddledan> 20% of children (12-15) think that if a search engine lists it then it's fact/true
<penguin42> presumably that is heavily biased towards the 12 year olds and still most of them have got a clue
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-28
<daftykins> good mornings
<daftykins> pavlushka: bad connection!
<pavlushka> daftykins: well, not anymore and sorry for the bother.
<davmor2> Morning all you cyberhippies
<popey> hello
<daftykins> \o
<SuperMatt> g'day
<daftykins> happy cyber monday
<SuperMatt> Still nothing that I want to buy
<SuperMatt> I think I've finally risen above crass commercialism
<daftykins> mmm i've been shopping for others but that's about it
<SuperMatt> Yeah, me too
<daftykins> tempted to pop in the local HMV to see if anything is going on
<SuperMatt> HMV? What is this strange acronym seemingly from a bygone era?
<daftykins> :) they set up here and used to ship out back when there was tax relief on postings up to England, but had to move once that loophole got closed
<daftykins> the shop stayed open because apparently it was one of the chains top performers from across the whole company
<SuperMatt> If there's one thing I want in the black friday sales is a new vacuum cleaner
<daftykins> http://go.linuxfoundation.org/cyber-monday-2016
<daftykins> ooh
<SuperMatt> If I can get a dyson for half price, I'm game
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Make Your Own Head Day! ð
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: Best deals are around Dec 18th (average 17% off). Black Friday has an average 5% off. It's a marketing scam.
<xnox> i got dyson before christmas time for "half price" a few years back
<TwistedLucidity> We have a Dyson. Then we got a Husky. Now we need more Dysons!
<xnox>  /o\
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> we got a Shark vacuum cleaner, it's even better than the Dyson.
<zmoylan-pi> you're going to need a bigger dyson... ;-p
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: they did a washing machine once would that be big enough?
<Laney> vacuum cleaner chat
<Laney> we did grow up
<dwatkins> do they not still sell the washing machine? that was huge.
<davmor2> Laney: don't be daft we were all just told to keep it clean :D
<davmor2> JamesTait: what was today by the way had the mains electric cable replaced so no interwebz :D
 * Laney chats to davmor2 about pension options, mortgage rates and the best schools in the areazzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZzzZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 * davmor2 tells Laney to get off his lawn and shakes his stick at him
<Laney> cheese and real ale
<Laney> those are the good middle aged pleasures
<davmor2> Laney: oh black bomber hmmmmmmm
<Laney> norfolk white lady
 * Laney homer simpson drool
<Laney> https://www.thecheesesociety.co.uk/cheese-subscriptions/
<Laney> O_O
<zmoylan-pi> perfect for a crimbo pressie for someone instead of the usual socks and underpants...
<Laney> aye
<Laney> might drop some hints
<davmor2> Laney: seriously try some black bomber if you haven't,  also I prefer the Norfolk Marder or something like that, that was nice
<davmor2> Laney: I think there is an L in that cheese some where but no matter where I put it, it didn't look right :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, something about making your own head.
<davmor2> JamesTait: oh that's dangerous
<JamesTait> You're telling me!
<JamesTait> Mine has enough bugs as it is, without me reinventing it.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdLIerfXuZ4 think that should cover it right
<diddledan> daftykins: that's an expensive t-shirt (ref: http://go.linuxfoundation.org/cyber-monday-2016)
<diddledan> at least you get a freebie course to go with it
<zmoylan-pi> but real linux geeks will know how much you paid for it...
<diddledan> nah, only corporate linuxers will - those courses don't make "real" linux geeks
<TwistedLucidity> Why would I want to give my money to a trade association raking it in from Oracle, MS etc? Seems to me, community member should support the community. Y'know, that thing the Foundation blocked from being on the board.
<diddledan> I don't get what the foundation is supposed to provide to the linux world
<zmoylan-pi> corporate legitimacy
<zmoylan-pi> it's not just a bunch of neckbeards typing code in their mothers basement
<diddledan> but neckbeards in the mom's basements are the ones who are the most important
<diddledan> their*
<TwistedLucidity> Not to the lawyers and accountants. The beard is just a cost centre waiting to be outsourced.
<diddledan> :-(
 * diddledan will have to shave
<diddledan> :-(
<zmoylan-pi> AND wear a suit
<diddledan> oh god
<diddledan> I refuse to work anywhere that I'm required to wear a suit
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out the chocolate hobnobs (non generic) to coax diddledan out from under desk
 * diddledan pokes his head out with his nose twitching
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Well, that's you excldued from all the main consultancies then.
<TwistedLucidity> Some are incredibly strict
<diddledan> >.<
<TwistedLucidity> I used to work for one, not any more.
<TwistedLucidity> Now I work from home. Clothing optional.
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> working from home is awesome
<zmoylan-pi> that'll stop people hacking his webcam... twice...
<TwistedLucidity> I really need to pull my finger our and reclaim money from HMRC
<TwistedLucidity> *out
<TwistedLucidity> IIRC you can get ~Â£18pcm back.
<TwistedLucidity> Something like that anyway
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> really?
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah. For heating, lighting etc
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> yeah I think I knew about that
<zmoylan-pi> do tux figurines justify a claim as they are religious icons? :-)
<TwistedLucidity> Unfortunately not, Linux actually exists
<zmoylan-pi> bah ::switches back to invisible pink unicorn who's figures are very pricey::
<dogmatic69> is it possible to remote desktop on unity yet?
<diddledan> dogmatic69: unity7 or 8, client or server?
<dogmatic69> whatever 16.04 is
<dogmatic69> and 16.04 <-> 16.04 I want to remote with
<diddledan> yes that'll work
<SuperMatt> VNC has been possible for ages
<SuperMatt> as well as X forwarding
<dogmatic69> it totally has not, prev I have had to install xbuntu or something because unity would not work
<diddledan> SuperMatt: I think dogmatic69 is referring to the issue a few releases ago where vnc wouldn't show the composited desktop
<SuperMatt> oh right
<SuperMatt> I had no idea
<diddledan> vnc would connect but you'd see nada
<dogmatic69> ye, you would log in and have a black screen
<diddledan> yeah, dogmatic69, I think that's working now
<SuperMatt> I gave up on vnc and remote desktop a long time ago
<dogmatic69> diddledan: so I have remmana on the client, what should I install for the host?
<diddledan> at least on 16.04 iirc
<diddledan> use the default one, in the dash it's under "screen sharing" I think
<diddledan> and yes, use remmina as the client
<dogmatic69> cool, I will try that
<diddledan> the advantage of the default vnc server is that it'll autostart without any further fiddling once you've toggled the switch, but it does require your session to be logged-in on the machine first
<diddledan> so it's a session sharer rather than machine sharer if that makes sense?
<dogmatic69> that is fine, just cant find the switch
<diddledan> hang on, let me reboot to my ubuntu system and find the bits to walk you through
<dogmatic69> "desktop sharing"
<dogmatic69> I got it
<diddledan> aha
<dogmatic69> :)
<diddledan> well done :-)
<dogmatic69> you were close
<diddledan> may find just searching for "sharing" would have shown it
<dogmatic69> and it works
<dogmatic69> looks horrid in 256 colours :D
<dogmatic69> thanks diddledan
<diddledan> hah. yeah, we're spoilt with meelions of colours
<halt> Is there an up-to-date version of the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization page or any alternative to "Ubuntu Customization Kit" which still work with the 16.04 LTS version as well (to be more specific the gnome version if possible )
<halt> I wanted to put together a portable "home" but things like keyboard layout, and installed packages and stuff I have to modify comparing to the default LiveCD and would be nice to have some permanent storage even if it's an other mount or something I can script it up to get stuff setup right if there is anything not possible to customise at livecd build time, like bashrc or stuff like this
<davmor2> halt: not that I know too
<dogmatic69> hi all, trying to run a command over ssh to start chrome on a remote host
<dogmatic69> it should just run on the remote machine,
<dogmatic69> nothing fancy
<Gargoyle> Evenin'
<Gargoyle> Can someone tell me the correct place to put a xrandr command to have it run after login?
<Gargoyle> I tried .xinitrc and .xsession, but more googling suggests they only get run if you start a custom session, not default unity.
<Gargoyle> Also tried /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99x11-common_start - no dice.
<diddledan> Gargoyle: you could put it into "startup applications" (that's an applet name in the unity dash)
<Gargoyle> lemme try that!
<Gargoyle> Yes!
<Gargoyle> Thanks dan!
<Gargoyle> Correct scaling of my retina display! \o/
<diddledan> \o/
<Gargoyle> Awww. has /etc/rc.local finally bitten the dust on 16.10 too?
<diddledan> the new gay agenda has been published: https://www.autostraddle.com/new-gay-agenda-super-secret-do-not-leak-360607/
<diddledan> "We need you to be achingly, devastatingly, pants-meltingly sexy. Do whatever you can to enhance your unique personal appeal, whether thatâs emphasizing your voluptuous curves or doing squats while straight-arming cement-filled paint cans."
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-29
<mapps> hi
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Electronic Greetings Day! ð
<phablet> omarly
<phablet> first time w b m 10
<phablet> bq  m10
<diplo> Morning all
<foobarry> wave
<diplo> Hows you foobarry ? Any luck on the job hunt? Sure you were looking at some point recently
<foobarry> i flip between looking and not looking
<foobarry> i think i'm a bit fussy basedon location and job spec
<foobarry> i occasionally become less fussy depending on circumstances/annoyances at work
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> foobarry: you want a spherical lunar device atop a narrow wooden pole?
<foobarry> don't we all?
<foobarry> my raspi official 2A charger doesn't charge my tablets :(
<foobarry> wasted purchase
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> get a raspi to hang off the end and then it'll not be wasted :-p
<foobarry> yeah, i can't find my pi zero.
<foobarry> too small
<diplo> I bought some great chargers that work with everything so far
<foobarry> they had a 2.5 A raspi charger but didn't think it was necessary
<foobarry> because everything said 2A was sufficient
<diplo> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MTX9GD8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<diplo> Those are the ones I'm using for Pi's / phone charging
<foobarry> similar to my pi charger
<foobarry> not sufficent it seems for hp touchpad (and hudl2 possibly0
<popey> don't you need the resistors inside the charger to tell the device it can deliver that current?
<diplo> Works for my mums N7
<diplo> Yeah, best thing to buy is the MK sockets now, deliver the optimal current to your devices
<popey> they're always on though?
<foobarry> MK sockets?
<BigRedS> MK do mains sockets with USB sockets in them
<BigRedS> lots of companies do, but MK's are better than most. I assume that's what diplo means
<foobarry> btw one of my wall sockets is jammed "on". why would this happen? quite a new socket (2yrs old)
<diplo> Sorry phone went
<diplo> Yep exactly, they auto modify the current to your usb cable dependant on the device it detects
<diplo> More expensive than most USB sockets, but better too
<zmoylan-pi> i got a surge protection plug that has usb sockets on it.  works well
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: A short on the inside fusing something? Flip the breaker and take a look
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: if thats the case, would the socket next to it be ok?
<foobarry> my missis said the one stuck on was getting hot
<foobarry> (we aren't using it anymore)
<foobarry> by "next to it", i mean the other one of a socket pai
<foobarry> r
<TwistedLucidity> Sounds like a short, the whole thing is suspect. Get it replaced ASAP
<TwistedLucidity> Or, at least, get it looked at
<foobarry> finding good tradesmen is hard
<diddledan> digital economy bill blocking porn. what about twitter asks an MP. ""We are legislating to prevent as much as possible of that inadvertent viewing by those who are not desperately actively seeking to do so." <-- surely most teens who find porn are in that category?! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38143757
<diddledan> and my constituency MP Maria Miller claims that everything is possible by making law
<diddledan> apparently laws make the impossible happen
<foobarry> my usual question is , while all of redit be blocked?
<foobarry> i'd love a filter that disallowed adult subreddits
<foobarry> not just via a setting in your user profile which is self policed
<foobarry> reddit has the best and worst of the web
<zmoylan-pi> sayonara tumblr
<zmoylan-pi> and isn't the only thing this bill will do if passed is teach every kid how to bypass it and then share those skills with adults?
<diddledan> I saw a tweet earlier today that muted the thought that the Government are actively trying to drive tech companies out of the country
<foobarry> mooted?
<diddledan> that too
<zmoylan-pi> and starbucks
<diddledan> oh golly, starbucks. don't get them started on starbucks.
<foobarry> what about sb?
<diddledan> coffee is gonna be illegal methinks
<foobarry> i stopped rading about the news again
<foobarry> too many depressing stories recently
<diddledan> aye
<foobarry> coffee meh, no biggue
<diddledan> Trump. So much Trump.
<foobarry> should double click on a word in terminal typically use : as a delimiter?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Not so much, there's various trusted-trader schemes. Or ask your neighbours who they use and if they would recommend them
<foobarry> my neighbour who flings dog poo onto my patio...might give him a miss. yeah i'll ask my builder/plasterer other neighbour instead :)
<daftykins> #1 neighbour
<foobarry> http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/11/notorious-iot-botnets-weaponize-new-flaw-found-in-millions-of-home-routers/
<daftykins> always worth nixxing those TR-06# features when you can
<TwistedLucidity> What I don't understand is, why (for normal people) does the home router need *ANY* external port open?
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, and then there's UPnP
<daftykins> and NAT-PMP
<foobarry> talktalk keep an open port to "updat your firmware"
<foobarry> and they do
<daftykins> TR-06# are remote techs so your ISP can look at your router when you call up support
<TwistedLucidity> My router, my firmware, my problem
<daftykins> right, YOU might use your own, but the article was talking about ISP Supplied ones - read the article TwistedLucidity
 * daftykins groans
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: I did
<TwistedLucidity> It was a general point
<foobarry> then i generally need to allow ISP to do bits
<daftykins> right which doesn't apply
<foobarry> or risk losing my connection
<foobarry> or losing bandwidth
<TwistedLucidity> I have to use my ISP's router. Luckily it has a modem-mode; problem solved
<diplo> Can't use your own router with Sky, I used to without issue but stopped working recently and whatever I try fails
<daftykins> probably added a VLAN
<TwistedLucidity> Router <-> VM SuperFlub (modem-mode)
<diplo> Well I'm about to cancel Sky TV, see what they offer on the broadband/fibre and make my decision whether to stay or move after that
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> saw some company on the tube offering broadband only (no phone) for Â£20
<daftykins> i took apart an old Thomson sky HD box of a clients last night, 300GB maxtor HDD inside, bit of a blast from the past
<diplo> foobarry: vodafone are doing that 25 or 27 quid i think
<diplo> Thomson one, blimey that's old
<daftykins> surely there's still a line rental separate
<daftykins> yeah it is, it's been in his understairs cupboard for a while because it used to play up :)
<daftykins> i said i'd take it home and have a look if it had bad capacitors
<diddledan> the problem isn't so much that TR-069 exists, more that the ISP didn't firewall it off or put it onto a VLAN (BT Openreach has it on a separate VLAN so that the general public can't access the network at all)
 * diddledan checks the config on his
<daftykins> no i wasn't attempting to infer that
<diddledan> TR-069 on my openreach modem is on vlan 301 where the public internet is on vlan 101
<daftykins> it's an unnecessary feature though
<diplo> daftykins: ref line rental, they are being built into the price now so you don't have two different bills
<daftykins> maybe in your country :)
<foobarry> i found a jersey 20p piece and couldn't pass it on
<foobarry> fortunately self service tills take them
<daftykins> yeah, we're not allowed to spend Guernsey or Jersey money anywhere but some ports of ingress - it's a right hassle
<daftykins> always have to go to a UK notes only ATM or swap with friends/family before travel or similar
<daftykins> poor little young dafty got made to buy something himself in a shop as a kid and was embarassed half to death when the guy asked "what the hell is that green thing?" at my lovely crisp Guernsey Â£1 note :(
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan> well that's a bit nuts. my parcel due in a few minutes has journeyed from guildford (not far from here) up to birmingham (other side of the country) and then back down to basingstoke (here)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> couriers #1
<diddledan> it literally went past basingstoke to get to birmingham
<diddledan> unless it went to the m25 I guess
<diddledan> it might have gone guildford->m25->m40->birmingham I suppose
 * daftykins smiles and nods at the mainlander talk
<diddledan> yeah, loookin at maps that's probably the route it went
<diddledan> daftykins: you have motorways, too. that dirt track behind the coop
<diddledan> :-p
 * diddledan assumes you have a coop
<daftykins> that's the sheep racing track
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> sheep racing is a welshman's sport. they run away when you're randy so you chase them
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan> :-p
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Anyone like PC World in here?
<daftykins> yeah i've heard what you do on those 'holidays' of yours!
<diddledan> :-p
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what go to PC World? nope :)
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/664874228223623169
<daftykins> i don't really believe a word AMD says since they talk up their gear then release lemons - but https://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/new-horizon
<daftykins> diddledan: that's nothing new, seen that loads of times
<daftykins> found folks machines with chrome and updating broken due to a single registry key o0
<DJones> ffs, Why do new mobile phones not have a standard "ring ring" alert tone, all they seem to have is fantasy musical tunes
<daftykins> heh yeah, at least you're checking - i always hear the manufacturer default sounds whilst out and about ;)
<DJones> All I want it to do is malke a ring ring tone when somebody's ringing me, not beyonce or any other random artuste
<DJones> Dammed googe pixel setup
<daftykins> oh you got a pixel?
<daftykins> pricey.
<DJones> Yeah, I was due an upgrade a couple of months back. but wouldn't pay the increased contravt price, noticed a cyber monday discount that leaves me better off when I sell my old phone
<daftykins> how handy
<DJones> (over the course of the contract anyway)
<DJones> Paid an extra Â£30 up front, plus Â£1.50/month for 24 months, can sell the old phone for Â£100, so still make a profit even buying a new case
<xnox> pixel - want, but don't want to pay for it =(
 * xnox is on the original nexus 6 at the moment
<daftykins> i just ordered a OnePlus 3T for a client
<DJones> pixel is nice
<xnox> will wait until nexus 6 dies
<daftykins> christmas gift for his wife
<DJones> daftykins: Yeah, surem whats the betting his wife gets his old phone :)
<daftykins> nah he'll hold onto his
<DJones> I had to laugh before, my parents are heading out to Perth, Australia to visit my dad's sister before Christmas. Speaking to her before she said that she had her old iphone ready and waiting for them to use when they arrive....Thats a joke, they won't even switch their own mobiles on because they have to recharge them
<daftykins> XD
<DJones> I guess the peril's of being nearly 80
<DJones> Technology....
<daftykins> clients' secretary and husband go out to Perth a lot, they have a tale of picking up an Aussie SIM and being promised cheap calls back to home but all the credit disappearing in seconds, no idea what happened there
<daftykins> they were asking me about how to use skype so they could call for free
<DJones> I just tell my parents to use hangouts
<DJones> They can do that accidentaly, just don't know which icon to press to do it deliberatly
<daftykins> i don't see any benefit either way
<DJones> Not much difference, just I don't use skype, and they don't speak to anybody else over the internet apart from me
<daftykins> yeah they're middle aged and the fella wants to skype his mother i think, who has an iPad - so mmm
<DJones> daftykins: You're not based in Jersey are you (I don't think so from what you've said in the past) just saw a news report about the undersea cables to Jersey being cut
<daftykins> nah the better island, Guernsey
<DJones> :)
<daftykins> o rly, that might still mess things up for me
<DJones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-38141230
<DJones> A ship dragging its anchor on the seabed in the English Channel has cut the three main internet cables to the Channel Islands overnight.
<DJones> Broadband speeds are expected to be slower as a result and cable owners JT, Sure and BT say it could take up to three weeks to repair.
<DJones> "It is exceptionally unlucky and unprecedented for three submarine cables to the UK to be cut in the same day."
<DJones> Just thought it worth a mention
<daftykins> indeed, thanks for the heads up
<DJones> I saw that this morning, but first time I've been online since
<DJones> Ah well, good luck, hope it doesn't affect you
<daftykins> oh neat my ISP only had voice cables affected
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> it's happening! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/11/29/ofcom_to_force_a_legal_separation_of_bt_following_failed_voluntary_proposals/
<zmoylan-pi> oh for the good old days when they were a monopoly and had no competition
<daftykins> won't prevent back room chatter so it'll probably be totally useless
<zmoylan-pi> but it'll look like they did something... yay \o/
<diddledan> does anyone use private modes in their browser for normal things that isn't adult entertainment?
<diddledan> that's in reference to this tweet that just arrived: https://twitter.com/firefox/status/803686679147999232
<zmoylan-pi> any time i log into gmail i use a private mode
<zmoylan-pi> about 1-2 a year
<daftykins> yeah i use it for online banking
<daftykins> bed! \o
<zmoylan-pi> sleep well
<diddledan> at 8pm?! :-o
<zmoylan-pi> well if you want to hack wearing a balaclava and hoodie at 3am you have to get your beauty sleep
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> brobostigon: Morning dude how's life?
<brobostigon> davmor2: a mess, but trying to think postivly and looking forward to better. and you?
<brobostigon> https://download.cyanogenmod.org/get/jenkins/187783/cm-14.1-20161130-NIGHTLY-mako.zip woop
<davmor2> brobostigon: ouch that wasn't quite the answer I was expecting :( But also Yay for you.  As for me busy and tired but hey I got  a dishwasher and new tablet from black friday so am overjoyed
<brobostigon> davmor2: :)
<davmor2> popey: I strayed from the hudl2 the battery started to only last for 2 hours, I picked up the Lenovo Tab 3 8inch fantastic tablet only one complaint it doesn't dim enough but I'm down to 64% battery on 2 days use \o/
<popey> nice
<zmoylan-pi> i got the lenovo tab2 8 incher in argos on special a few months back... tis nice.  battery life is good. only thing i find iffy is that tumblr app is very crashy on it and not other android devices i've tried
<foobarry> hudl2 is prefect except for software and battery
<foobarry> mini hdmi out micro sd, it has the lot
<foobarry> for battery read intel chips
<zmoylan-pi> and i do like otg devices... been able to plug a usb drive with a micro usb socket on one end and normal usb-a on the other is dead handy at geeky meetups for swapping files
<davmor2> foobarry: yeah I loved my hudl2 when the battery lasted 6-8hours but when it got down to 2 it was ridiculous
<foobarry> Â£11.99 buys you a new battery
<foobarry> or 9.99 actually
<foobarry> lots sold so must be an issue
<zmoylan-pi> how old are the hudl2's now? getting on a bit
<davmor2> foobarry: yeah it is but then you got to go through the hassle of opening the device, replacing the battery and so on, so I got Â£120 Tablet for Â£90 instead and no looking back, similar power, marshmellow, runs my banking app that the hudl2 didn't and so on
<davmor2> oh and the battery lasts days doing the same thing as on the hudl2 :)
<popey> mine is 2 years old
<popey> battery on my hudl2 is fine
<popey> but then i rarely use it anymore :)
<zmoylan-pi> which in battery years is? :-)
<davmor2> popey: do you ever unplug it :D
<popey> Sam used it for ages, but now he has my OnePlus One, he never uses the hudl2
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Computer Security Day! ð  ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: I discovered this a few days ago looking into firewall for modding a setting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_sSNTP2-T0 enjoy
<JamesTait> davmor2, I've left the playlist running, I quite like it.
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're welcome
<davmor2> JamesTait: the original is more of a rock/pop song but I preferred the nightcore version
<foobarry> oh. my touchpad does charge if it already has decent charge
<foobarry> trickles very slowly
<foobarry> with the raspi charger
<foobarry> but not from zero
<diddledan> davmor2: good tune!
<davmor2> diddledan: apt at least :)
<diddledan> https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/downloads-make-it-even-easier-to-watch-netflix-on-the-go
<m0nkey_> can confirm
<m0nkey_> it's available
<m0nkey_> not for everything, but most things
<daftykins> time to hunt for a wall bracket for that fancy 65" LG OLED :O
<diddledan> scathing: https://richardskingdom.net/investigatory-powers-act-rebuttal
<diddledan> I found a bug so I made light of it via humour: https://github.com/eclipse/che/issues/3205
<diddledan> note my purposeful typo
<davmor2> diddledan: man it got fix fast ;)
<diddledan> yup
<m0nkey_> wow, i just found my old nexus one
<diddledan> :-o
<m0nkey_> its charging
<daftykins> D:
<m0nkey_> should be able to put jelly bean on it, right?
<daftykins> specs are so bad it wouldn't be worth any effort.
<m0nkey_> lol
<daftykins> nah deadly serious, 512MB RAM, oof
<m0nkey_> it has a legacy feature, which all phones should include
<m0nkey_> a user replaceable battery
<m0nkey_> even my Note 4 has that feature
<daftykins> i'd be willing to bet most people have moved on before they ever have need to change one anyway
<daftykins> m0nkey_: haha cyanogenmod gave up at gingerbread O_O (CM v7)
<m0nkey_> daftykins, 7.2 was released for it, that appears to be Android 4.4.4
 * m0nkey_ is taking bets on weather Purolator screws up the delivery again today
<m0nkey_> This was yesterday: Delayed in transit due to missed connection
<m0nkey_> Supposed to arrive today
<daftykins> not if it's CM
<diddledan> m0nkey_: what you getting delivered?
<m0nkey_> gtx 1060
<diddledan> nice!
<daftykins> 3GB or 6GB?
<diddledan> all the GB
<m0nkey_> 6GB
<daftykins> aww yeah just scp'd the last of the ripped music to a clients file server and desktop PC \o/ yay for remote access
<daftykins> also yay for 10Mb upload :D
<diddledan> AWS has revenue of 13bn
<diddledan> that's their last year
<daftykins> mmk :)
<diddledan> amazon are launching fpga instances
<diddledan> so that's a compute instance that is connected somehow to fpga chips
<daftykins> mmhmm
<m0nkey_> I just had a call from Purolator
<diddledan> oh dear
<m0nkey_> They claim it's at the 'depot', but no update. Then she went on to say 'It was left at the door'. I bet they lost it.
<m0nkey_> I told them it better have not been left at the door, any bugger could just take it.
<m0nkey_> I work from home, to make sure somebody is here to receive it, now they've failed two days in a row.
<m0nkey_> http://i.imgur.com/Rg0QIQ9.gif
<diddledan> haha
<m0nkey_> sauce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBzU8TD1iks
<m0nkey_> My guess, somebody 'broke' the box it was in, found it was a GTX 1060 and swiped it.
<diddledan> mebbe
<diddledan> amazon just announced a shipping container
<diddledan> "AWS Snowmobile"
<diddledan> 100PB container in a 45ft truck
<zmoylan-pi> windows 10 actually _runs_ on it :-D
<daftykins> pff
<zmoylan-pi> i remember a.c.clarke predicting 4pb in a shoebox sized contained for mid 2050s iirc... looking like we'll get there
<daftykins> could be!
<diddledan> of course there's gonna be many jokes when yottabytes are commonplace: "boy, you've got a yotta bytes!"
<zmoylan-pi> he was suggesting they would be used to distribute illegal copies of library of congress type databases cheap for home useage...
<diddledan> but the library of congress takes a couple gig, I thought?
<m0nkey_> OK, another agent has just told me it's on the truck with the driver. They don't seem to know what the heck is going on.
<daftykins> standard courier then
<zmoylan-pi> all the text of library of congress is about 4pb iirc
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not sure if that's with or without compression
<zmoylan-pi> ah, 1 million google accounts compromised by android malware...
<diddledan> \o/
<m0nkey_> link?
<m0nkey_> Canada Post is the only decent service for deliveries
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/11/1-million-android-accounts-compromised-by-android-malware-called-gooligan/
<daftykins> once again only third party marketplaces, so wholly moot when following sane practices
<zmoylan-pi> put your android device in a plastic bag, never connect it to the net or a pc. leave it locked in a dark drawer and you're grand
<diddledan> what you mean f-droid is unsafe?!
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: don't spread FUD
<zmoylan-pi> a layer of fud on top of it in the drawer will help too :-)
<diddledan> elma fudd
<daftykins> i've seen articles that claim it's mostly in the east that people are using third party marketplaces
<diddledan> probably getting cracked softwares too
<diddledan> hence the third-party marketplace
<zmoylan-pi> yeah it does seem that 3rd party markets are the big malware sources for android but a few have made it past google into marketplace till they've been discovered
<daftykins> sure, but you have to really be installing some really weird junk to get hit
<daftykins> diddledan: yeah or region restrictions maybe
<zmoylan-pi> be vewy vewy qwiet, it's malware season
<daftykins> a client can't get MS Word right now on android because they like to stick their middle finger at anyone signed up with a Guernsey address
<zmoylan-pi> well those tax havens are notorious :-P
 * diddledan middle-fingers daftykins .. quite hard.
<zmoylan-pi> full of pirates
<diddledan> *pokey poke poke*
<m0nkey_> it's here!
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: it's not a f*ing tax haven.
<m0nkey_> that first agent was useless
<diddledan> daftykins: anymore
<daftykins> and i'd appreciate you not to talk bs about my home either
<daftykins> no, nor was it
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> tossers
<diddledan> I still don't really understand the relationship between the islands and britain
<diddledan> as a britisher we tend to think we "own" the islands
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's people think islands and then mix everything they've heard about all of them under one big label 'islands' and thus mistakes are begun
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you're misspelling ireland :-p
<zmoylan-pi> well as a german mate said, 'ireland is an island... barely' he wasn't a fan of the damp which comes at you from every direction
<m0nkey_> Britain rules the world. We only let the US think they do.
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> as a friend would say "slap the locals away with my british passport"
<daftykins> well that's definitely a refreshing statement to hear diddledan, usually i find the English are trying to teach me about my own home :>
<daftykins> that got old very quickly at Uni
<m0nkey_> This is why Canada exists, it's bigger and it's on top. Mostly colonized by Brits.
<daftykins> diet 'murica
<zmoylan-pi> and exists just to annoy the americans :-P
<diddledan> daftykins: I can tell you about your home.. you live there! (that's about the sum of my knowledge :-p)
<diddledan> <-- Mormon
<m0nkey_> Think about it, the US didn't go to war with Iraq, the UK did.  The UK also recently introduced the 'snooping' charter, which you can bet your bottom it will be adopted in the US shortly.
<diddledan> or should that be Norman?
<zmoylan-pi> well... the uk has always been snooping, now they're just making it official
<diddledan> I think we need an interlude: https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/804033532351971329/photo/1
<m0nkey_> They've been testing the snooping in the US, now deployed on a small scale.
<diddledan> I like how Britain now has the most repressive surveilance laws in existence which everyone are now clamouring to copy
<diddledan> "we're world leaders"
<m0nkey_> Then before you know it, BOOM. Everybody has a Telescreen in their living room
<diddledan> nowai
<zmoylan-pi> why bother when you've trained all the citizens to carry cameras and microphones around with them 24x7
<diddledan> I sometimes talk to the people bugging my home
<diddledan> the idea is to make them wonder if I know they're listening
<daftykins> or scare the children
<m0nkey_> Not everyone has a cell phone, especially here.
<zmoylan-pi> where's here m0nkey_?
<m0nkey_> Anywho
<m0nkey_> Canada
<diddledan> again, Britain is leading the way on self-surveilance
<m0nkey_> You'll be surprised how many people don't have a cell phone here
<zmoylan-pi> large spaces still out of coverage i suspect?
<m0nkey_> Anywho, I'm going to write a new program this weekend. It's going to generate web browsing noise. Not too much to make look like you're masking something, but just enough to fill their logs up with crap.
<diddledan> Britain has the most penetration of cellular surveilance equipment disguised as a phone and has the highest proportion of owners submitting their daily activities to the state social network, Facebook
<m0nkey_> In Canada, most of the coverage is located in major cities and along the border (where 95% of the population live)
<m0nkey_> When you head north, little or no cell coverage
<diddledan> the border is well populated because it's full of Americans who escaped
<m0nkey_> Heck, I drove to Guelph from Montreal, about half way, there was no cell coverage.
<zmoylan-pi> solar powered mesh connecting mini towers attached to migrating moose... :-P
<m0nkey_> And just for fun, I've started reading 1984 again. :)
<diddledan> what's the plural of Moose? Meese? Mooses? Mice?
<zmoylan-pi> read it out loud so the security services aren't bored on the job
<zmoylan-pi> meeses
<m0nkey_> diddledan, it's just moose.
<m0nkey_> If you lived in Canada, you'd know that.
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> by the time you've worked out the plural for moose you've been trampled by a herd so saving time is important...
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/803837204745306116
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/803580527974449152
<m0nkey_> I need to follow that account
<diddledan> is it really bad that I know where this picture comes from? https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/801944746138554368
<diddledan> hint, it's a kids' show
<m0nkey_> *sigh*
<zmoylan-pi> they're doing a reboot of that show aren't they?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: really?
<SebthreeBQM10HD>  
<zmoylan-pi> hmm, there was buzz when the 20th anniversary of the show debut rolled around a few months back... http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/09/27/sabrina-the-teenage-witch-anniversary-reboot-melissa-joan-hart/#!
<zmoylan-pi> they've rehashed every other mediocre show/movie
<daftykins> https://youtu.be/rNk0yTKj0oU
<diddledan> interesting that they're using a standard HDD
<diddledan> especially as it's only 1TB.
<diddledan> I think it would have been better-off by replacing the MSATA SSD with a huge NVMe SSD and getting-rid of the HDD altogether
<zmoylan-pi> whilest soldering the ram to the motherboard
<daftykins> what makes you say it's mSATA? it's M.2
<diddledan> I thought that's what she said
 * diddledan re-runs it
<diddledan> you're right
<diddledan> M.2
<daftykins> i mean an M.2 device can still be pinned for SATA or PCIe operation, but i'd hope it's the latter given the age of the device
<diddledan> still, it would be better to use a large SSD than the hybrid nonsense
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> that whole machine overall is a joke
<daftykins> every all-in-one is, really
<diddledan> every manufacturer seems to think integration is the best rather than customisation
<zmoylan-pi> because apple made a profit doing it
 * zmoylan-pi remembers when pc manufacturer ast shortened keyboard cables by 6" to save i think it was 5c per pc.  made their pcs unusable as the cables were too short to reach from under average desk to desk surface.  the keyboard would slide towards the pc
<daftykins> was that PS/2 connector days, or DIN?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what's DIN?
<zmoylan-pi> ps/2 at that stage
<zmoylan-pi> and a few sockets were damaged by keyboard undertension pulling at the motherboard
<diddledan> back then it was common for PCs to be horizontal "desktop" units rather than vertical "tower" units
<diddledan> seems everything is tower these days
<diddledan> for self-build that is
<zmoylan-pi> true but some of their bigger desktops took up too much space so were put on floor on their side
<zmoylan-pi> ...and made a nice warm spot under your desk for those winter days
 * diddledan remembers his first Windows PC - I skipped 3.1 altogether and jumped direct from an 8086 CPU running DOS to a P133 running Win95
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: something to put your feet on :-p
<m0nkey_> boo. Can't use my new 1060 until xmas day :(
<diddledan> awww :-(
<diddledan> swap it anyway and tell the wife the one in the box is still the "new" one
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> I did think about that, but it wouldn't be fair.
<m0nkey_> She's not allowed hers until xmas either
<daftykins> her what? same card? :P
<m0nkey_> No, a new PVR
<diddledan> \o/
<m0nkey_> She wanted the new one which records 8 channels at any given time
<diddledan> you're stuch a good Husband :-)
<m0nkey_> PLus it does 4K
<m0nkey_> So, next thing will be a 4K TV
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> new TV FTW
<diddledan> birthday?
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> course you've just had yours
<diddledan> so it'll have to be hers?
<daftykins> but what broadcast 4K are you going to get that a PVR can record?
 * daftykins blinks
<m0nkey_> Didn't get it for the 4K
<m0nkey_> got it for the recording
<diddledan> prolly does netflix which has some 4K
<daftykins> yeah i'm kinda wondering what of a PVR needs to support 4K though
<daftykins> unless it's got tuners as a cable box as well or some such
<diddledan> if Virgin let you plug your own box into the cable I'd be tempted to get cable
<daftykins> surely there's no own box for TV services though
<daftykins> if you meant TV
<diddledan> well nobody sells them in the UK because Virgin legalese you into not buying them
<popey> there are generic cable boxes, but they're generally not supported in the UK
<diddledan> I think Virgin scramble the DVB table too, so you need a correction matrix to be able to tune even unencrypted channels
<diddledan> it is supposed to be standard DVB-C though so apart from the protection on the channel list you should be able to get off-the-shelf stuff to work
<diddledan> the thing with cable though is that it's bi-directional so they will probably be able to see that you've got an illegal device attached
<zmoylan-pi> that and you've stopped ringing their complaints department from using their buggy box :-)
<diddledan> hah. negative reinforcement
<diddledan> "as long as they keep phoning for support we're good"
<popey> I had a friend who would modify set top boxes so they didnt call back
<popey> that was fun
<popey> meant he could use cracked cards
<MartijnVdS> *pets his satellite dish*
<MartijnVdS> no cards required, AND unscrambled DVB-S(2) signals ;)
 * daftykins pats not watching crap
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> cracked cards and the battle to keep using them took so much time in the 90s
<popey> yeah
<popey> i remember the 'seasons' software back in the day to decode signals offline to make a key for cards
<oliver__> quit
<oliver__> \q
<oliver__> \quit
<brobostigon> https://open.spotify.com/track/7Js4OF5MUb2bqJe09g4uQE :)
<m0nkey_> The wife is awesome
<m0nkey_> She got home from work 10 mins ago, saw it and said I can use it :D
<m0nkey_> Off I go and install
<daftykins> woo
<m0nkey_> gtx 1060!
<m0nkey_> for s&g, i ran the steamvm benchmark, vr ready baby!
<daftykins> s&g?
<daftykins> yawn VR :P
<m0nkey_> gonna run 3dmark now
<m0nkey_> back soon
<daftykins> and that was the last they heard from m0nkey
<m0nkey_> I'm back
<m0nkey_> Got a pretty decent bench
<daftykins> now for a game! :)
<m0nkey_> But can it run Crysis?
<daftykins> i lost interest in playing those many moons ago
<m0nkey_> I'll re-install Fallout4
<m0nkey_> It used to lag on that game
<daftykins> what was your last card?
<m0nkey_> gtx 960
<daftykins> wow that was a tiny upgrade
<m0nkey_> it's almost double the performance
<zmoylan-pi> scrolling text has never been so responsive :-P
<m0nkey_> tested in GTA V, framerate has increased, no more lag which makes it much more enjoyable
<Gargoyle> m0nkey_: Happy with it then? I've got the 1060 pegged for a new system build after xmas?
<daftykins> yeah, but just surprising for you to upgrade from
<daftykins> i went 560Ti -> 1070 :D
<m0nkey_> daftykins, i want to get into VR, the 960 was just under the benchmark
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wty9j6ttp1d5hqx/4.jpg?dl=0 :D
<m0nkey_> would have loved to get the 1070, but there was a $200 price difference
<daftykins> where's the 960 headed?
<daftykins> yeah i think i paid Â£360
<m0nkey_> it's now in the pc in the living room, replacing an old radeon hd 6850
<zmoylan-pi> does it make the pc kick out more heat?
<m0nkey_> not really
<daftykins> everything newer would be more power efficient than an AMD HD 6850 XD
<m0nkey_> less since i took the 6850 out
<diddledan> I writted a thing: https://medium.com/@diddledan/advanced-composition-of-polymer-webcomponents-9929788024f9#.x6vyvtoiu
<diddledan> I believe I'm a coolkid now I've published on medium?
<diddledan> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/11/30/16000-nutella-found-during-canadian-drug-trafficking-sting/94684600
<m0nkey_> lets face it, nutella is f**king delicious
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-01
<diddledan> haha: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/804115807299047424
<foobarry> ahhh figured out why ctrl-R in my terminal stopped working..simple screen recorder was stomping on it
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> Greetings from London.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and a peaceful World AIDS Day. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: whenever I hear about aids this is the song that drops into my head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB4K0scMysc so let it be this
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> any logstash users in here?
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> I'm using it, but I don't know how it works
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> wondered about a best practice question
<SuperMatt> like?
<foobarry> do i edit rsyslog.conf to send some logs or use shipper
<SuperMatt> We use filebeat
<foobarry> do you have shexy kibana screens?
<foobarry> my kibaan screen is ugggglu
<SuperMatt> yup, we have a full RELK stack
<foobarry> got any screenshots you are allowed to show?
<SuperMatt> foobarry: probably not ;)
<diddledan> foobarry:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/EdQlJiZQ/kibana%20screenie
<diddledan> note, I've just reset the index on that so it's not got full data
<foobarry> cool
<foobarry> and kibana 5 :)
<foobarry> i really need to learn hwo to do awesomes
<foobarry> hwo are you separating lines?
<foobarry> maybe i need to get onto k5 and get cracking on that
<diddledan> each entry has a term of channel which I'm using as the split
<foobarry> is that a field?
<diddledan> I've set the x-axis to timestamp and then aggregated by channel.keyword
<diddledan> yes a field
<foobarry> i have "password failed from user XXX"
<foobarry> so i'm looking to regexp out the user and plot a pie chart of most failed users
<diddledan> I have no idea how to do that :-p
<diddledan> I split everything out using logstash so I would put a grok rule in for "password failed from user ${DATA:username}"
<diddledan> that'll then save a new field called username
<diddledan> you could also do a match where if the entry is a password failed entry then set another field indicating the type of message rather than just storing the message and trying to grok it after it's in the db
<diddledan> so for those irc logs I'm pulling out as much as I can into fields and also including the full raw message
<diddledan> example of some of my data https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/y1RBy9xs/
<diddledan> you can see each field separated there
<foobarry> neat, thanks
<foobarry> which file is the grokking done again? filter?
<diddledan> grok is done in /etc/logstash/conf.d/*
<diddledan> it's a step before inserting the data
<diddledan> so it's done as you receive it rather than as you analyse it
<diddledan> receive -> logstash/grok -> elasticsearch -> use it
<foobarry> merci buckets
<diddledan> hah, it's not just me that says it like that then :-p
<Safiyyah> hi guys, is anyone around?
<Safiyyah> I am wondering how to synchronise thunderbird mail between the desktop and the laptop. Desktop has Xubuntu 16.04 and laptop has MATE 16.04
<Safiyyah> The e-mail is synchronised but not the contacts
<Safiyyah> the second problem is about the shell command line interface. If there an idiot's guide online regarding how to use it. everything I try seems too complex. All I want is to be able to access my desktop files from my laptop
<foobarry> http://rik.smith-unna.com/command_line_bootcamp
<Safiyyah> Thanks foobarry but I don't see anything regarding the ssh shell?
<foobarry> you didn't mention ssh? i think you mean bash?
<Azelphur> I had an interesting idea with my TV. It doesn't support remote control over IP (so no smartphone app, etc) I emailed them asking to implement it, or to give me the source so I could implement it myself, obviously they refused, so I posted what they sent me on Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/HisenseUK/posts/1797317843813762
<Azelphur> not sure if I'll win, be interesting to see if I can get them to improve the software (or let me improve the software -_-)
<jasonbassett> Safiyyah:  I synced thunderbird on 2 machine by syncronising the profile directory using rsync.  This worked well for me, despite suggestions I would get issues because the profile was named the same.
<jasonbassett> it was not a live syncronisation, by that I mean I would sync my office pc to my home pc as I left the office so when I arrived home, I could fire up Thunderbird and it would be as I left it work.
<jasonbassett> profile corruption may ensue if you have thunderbird open on either pc whilst rsync runs.
<jasonbassett> It would be nice if thunderbird had built in sync, just like firefox does for bookmarks, saved passwords etc.
<Safiyyah> okay
<Safiyyah> so I shouldn't open the desktop and the laptop
<Safiyyah> at the same time?
<Safiyyah> jasonbassett
<jasonbassett> correct, when syncing, I always had thunderbird closed.  I started the sync script when I left the office so it had synced to my home system by the time I got home.
<jasonbassett> May be a better way to achieve this now, but that was the best I could come up with then, about 3 years ago
<daftykins> Safiyyah: yay
<daftykins> Safiyyah: did you really doubt me that dumping VGA would solve all your problems? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> sad to see vga going...
<daftykins> when someone has to use a modeline in their xorg.conf in 2016? i don't think so (:
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: when you want to boot before attaching the screen :)
<MartijnVdS> or when using a screen from the stone age
<daftykins> or when getting a buggy EDID
<zmoylan-pi> my stone age screens work fine, thank you very much :-)
<daftykins> such as is the case with this topic
 * zmoylan-pi is currently trying to convince myself to send 2 of the 3 monitors i have for recycling keeping the oldest one as it alse has scart as well as vga
<daftykins> and what's such an old interface going to be used for? :)
<zmoylan-pi> it talks to my rasp pi b :-)
<zmoylan-pi> with a bit of jiggery pokery and wacky cable connectors
<daftykins> oh because you lack HDMI, i remember now
<zmoylan-pi> if i ditch the 2 monitors i could then get a hdmi one and enter reluctanly the 21st century... but i usually prefer to jump to tech after it's successor has been out a few years :-D
<zmoylan-pi> i switched to win2000 at work after sp2 came out for winxp.  i switched to winxp when windows 7 came along...
<daftykins> that... sounds unwise
<daftykins> do you also run outdated Linux versions too? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> 1) it annoyed management 2) very few people sit and use your pc unless there is no other alternative :-)
<zmoylan-pi> 3) older versions of windows run like hot snot on newer hardware
<zmoylan-pi> possibly with the exception of vista which i never saw go fast on any hardware... :-P
<daftykins> SP2 slipstreamed media would install and run pretty well for about 5 minutes, but yeah it ground to a halt big time, never known a version so bad
<daftykins> (of Vista)
<zmoylan-pi> i think it was the prefetch filling ram which on lower specced machines killed performance
<zmoylan-pi> i remember quite a few vista machines that never had the hd led turn off
<daftykins> well i saw ones with upgraded RAM and SSDs still be cringeworthily slow, so who knows
<daftykins> glad to see it's going fully EOL this April :)
<zmoylan-pi> i think it was still using virtual memory so probably shortened the lifespans of a few ssds too
<daftykins> had a client today ask me to buy them a brand new Dell laptop for Â£916 because they were too impatient to wait for another Dell outlet one to come up for Â£680, nice to have that little concern for money...
<zmoylan-pi> nice to have customers who don't check the bills as well :-P
<daftykins> to be honest i always put in their own cards and let them pay for things at cost
<daftykins> lots less hassle dealing with the paperwork then and i don't have to go through this time of year with thousands of pounds of minuses on my own accounts until they pay me back
<zmoylan-pi> simplfies things a smidge
<daftykins> apart from him making me buy it for him 'cause he's useless XD
<daftykins> some o' them folk refer to buying things online as some kind of magic i do...
<zmoylan-pi> for some they're terrified of getting scammed so avoid online transactions
<daftykins> definitely not the case here, just act like it's some kind of puzzle
<zmoylan-pi> blinded by pc advertising and have no clue what they are meant to be ordering?
<daftykins> no, just the online process
<kbingham> Whats the easiest way to strip a filename extension in shell in a portable way ? (read as support 'dash', and busybox 'sh')
<kbingham> I'm assuming my only real portable way is to 'sed' it out.
<kbingham> my actual goal is to make a file.bin become file.png : PNG=${FILE/bin/png}
<SuperMatt> yeah, I'd sed it
<SuperMatt> sed -e "s|\.bin$|.png"
<SuperMatt> ah, found an easier way
 * kbingham holds breath :D
<SuperMatt> for i in $(ls *.bin | sed -e "s|\.bin$||"); do mv $i{.bin,.png}; done
<kbingham> SuperMatt: Oh - no sorry - I need the names in a variable, as I'm passing the conversion through 'convert'
<kbingham> well in fact - first a utility called raw2rgbpnm, then to png :D
<kbingham> SuperMatt: but thanks - I'll just stick with sed.
<SuperMatt> +1
<kbingham> SuperMatt: Frustratingly, busybox sh actually handles the bashism PNG=${FILE/bin/png}, and it's only because I want my script to work on my ubuntu host, in the same way that it does on my *embedded target* that I'm having to work around this :(
 * daftykins wonders how many times this task needs to be performed that such effort is being taken
<kbingham> daftykins: On every output of an automated test :D
<davmor2> kbingham: for i in `find /path/to/dir -name *.bin`; do <insert your convert command here>; done
<davmor2> kbingham: if you don't wnat to run your convert command then you can just run do echo $i to see the output
<kbingham> davmor2: Don't worry - here's the full context : http://paste.ubuntu.com/23564605/
<kbingham> I'm already using sed in the script - so it's not really an issue.
<daftykins> a friend of mine who lives and works up in England is speaking of a job for a web/software developer in Tunbridge Wells if anyone is interested
<zmoylan-pi> ah bugger, manuel from fawlty towers has died...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: goddamit, 2016 is determined to keep it up for all 365 days!
<zmoylan-pi> bit of a scare earlier with buzz aldrin but he's been looked after now
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-02
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<imexil> I just got the message on the feedback channel on telegram. Problem is that http://ubuntupodcast.org/telegram/ does not work when you only use web.telegram.org Any other way to join that channel?
<diplo> Telegram Desktop ?
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Bartender Appreciation Day! ðº ð»
<diplo> Anyone used Sucuri.net before in their workplace or for customers?
<davmor2> JamesTait: nice friday song for the bartenders https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCkmIyC6v00
<dogmatic69_> Anyone able to help with some strange networking issue. I am connected to work VPN and need to access some specific IP in the browser but it wont work. I can wget it though
<dogmatic69_> and I 100% have the proxy configured in both
<dogmatic69_> also traceroute does not show anything, just a load of lines of stars
<dogmatic69_> :(
<foobarry> ip route command
<foobarry> check your routes
<foobarry> some vpns publish certain routes that you can access, rather than all all -> VPN
<davmor2> dogmatic69_: check if compression is enabled on the vpn and if it is make sure it is enabled on you machine too it is a simple checkbox to over look
<BigRedS> dogmatic69_: you're using both a VPN and a proxy? Is the IP that you can't connect the proxy?
<foobarry> got a supposedly dimmable LED bulb and it flickers like a strobe
<foobarry> previous one didn't do that!
<dogmatic69_> BigRedS: I just figured it out. had different "no_proxy" settings for cli and ui :/
<dogmatic69_> foobarry: sounds like your dimmable is using PWM, slowly
<foobarry> pwm?
<dogmatic69_> pulse width modulation, instead of lowering the power amount you simply turn it on and off at different intervals to get the same effect
<dogmatic69_> eg if its only on 1/2 the time it would be 1/2 as bright, but if the pulses are too long it will look like its flashing
<dogmatic69_> too long, being slower than what your eye can detect
<foobarry> this is massive strobing
<foobarry> https://goo.gl/photos/WhNR9H5vjMH26wto9
<foobarry> much worse even that can be recorded on that clip.
<foobarry> not a bit of flicker, but actual strobing
<dogmatic69_> yep, it could be a dead capacitor
<foobarry> got 2 of them brand new. both the same
<foobarry> its on a dimmer switch. i bet its fine on a regaulr switch
<dogmatic69_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation#Voltage_regulation
<dogmatic69_> oh, you need special ones for a dimmer
<foobarry> these are suppsed to be!
<dogmatic69_> ::O
<foobarry> ah, balls maybe i got the wrong one
<dogmatic69_> :)
<foobarry>  Beam Angle: 140Â°, Warm Up Time: Instant, Dimmable: No, 5 Year Warranty
<foobarry> argggh
<dogmatic69_> that will do it
<foobarry> i was looking at a whole page of dimmable and managed to make a mistake
<dwatkins> could be worse - you could have ordered the wrong 8 TB external disk array (Thunderbolt instead of USB)
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> also..
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/6pQ6b
<foobarry> amazon claimed it was with sam at number 51, ten doors down
<dwatkins> yeah, we get that a lot as we have a porch
<foobarry> it's not even tucked away
<SebthreeBQM10HD> gdgdgdg
<SebthreeBQM10HD> dss
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: seriously get the cat off your keyboard
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that was me :D, no cat here
<SebthreeBQM10HD> got dogs though
<dogmatic69_> foobarry: took me a while to spot that, hidden behind the pot :/
<foobarry> particularly as we have bushes and nooks and crannies
<zmoylan-pi> but thankfully no crevices... :-P
<diddledan> anyone on talktalk broadband? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38167453
<DJones> diddledan: Thankfully not, must admit I wouldn't touch talktalk with a 10 foot bargepole
<diddledan> me either
<zmoylan-pi> what about an eu approved 4m one? :-)
<DJones> I don;t think I've ever heard anybody say something good about talktalk
<DJones> I'm with Sky, they get a lot of complaints, but the service I've had has always been good
<zmoylan-pi> in ireland i use tesco mobile and it's considered bottom of the barrel but actually provides one of the best services
<zmoylan-pi> it's only the tesco name that gets it a bad name as far as i can see
<dwatkins> I'm with Three in the UK, the coversage is significantly better than Vodafone when I'm on the train around Glasgow and Edinburgh. Can't even stay on a call with Vodafone sometimes.
<awilkins> My mum has TalkTalk as her ISP
<awilkins> It's pants.
<foobarry> i have TT
<foobarry> i have that router
<awilkins> Their router is a Huwaei piece-of-poop
<foobarry> maybe*
<diddledan> :-(
<foobarry> D-Link DSL-3780
<awilkins> Huwaei HG533
<awilkins> I presume by default that it runs all kinds of  Evilware
<foobarry> i've had dodgy internet this week
<foobarry> kept losing wifi
 * awilkins is on Virginmedia with the "Superhub" firmly in "Stupid mode" and a separate Asus router inside
<diddledan> awilkins: I used to do that when I was with virgin - it's annoying that the first thing they do if you phone them for support about broken net is "your router is in modem mode. I fixed that for you."
<foobarry> i had their huawei picture frame one for a while
 * zmoylan-pi laughs at these configurations and crosses fingers that my landlords wifi ap stays up over crimbo so my ap that extends it will keep working
 * zmoylan-pi makes note to make sure i have credit for my tescomobile mifi just in case...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: if you were in the UK your landlord would now have to record every site you visit :-p
<zmoylan-pi> well... i would be the one handling the log so i'm ok with that :-P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> you get freebie wifi because you're the admin?
<diddledan> "sure I can install your internet... *backdoors it*"
<zmoylan-pi> i think theirs a politican nearby so i can use theirs for all the nasty stuff... 8bit cat videos and the like :-P
<diddledan> erhmagherd, you watch nyancat you pervert?!
<awilkins> My Asus is running the updated stock firmware
<awilkins> I had OpenWRT on it for ages, but it uses some filthy Broadcom trick to NAT packets quickly and OpenWRT doesn't have the kernel support for it
 * brobostigon could have abit of fun with https://www.usbkill.com/usb-killer/8-usb-killer.html :)
<awilkins> But the stock firmware is surprisingly good, even has SSH
<diddledan> yeah some cheaper routers use a binary blob to access hardware-level nat
<awilkins> Before that I had a Buffalo for aaaaages but it literally wasn't fast enough to keep up with my connection when VM upgraded it
<awilkins> Same for the stock firmware, changed to it when they went to 150Mbit/s and OpenWRT was petering out around 80Mbit/s
<diddledan> I remember running a netgear prosafe router ages ago that was crippled to not be able to go faster than 11Mbit
<awilkins> The wifi is a lot faster and more reliable too. Sad really. I do prefer open where possible.
<diddledan> t'was this jobbie: https://www.netgear.com/support/product/FVS124G.aspx?cid=wmt_netgear_organic
<diddledan> I figured if it has dual wan ports then it surely can go fast
<diddledan> but nope, 11Mbit/s even when using both WANs simultaneously
<awilkins> Yuk
<awilkins> You think with a name like "Firewall 25" it would do at least 25Mbit/s aggregate
<foobarry> i don't get ads with teh spotify web player. is that adblock doing that?
<foobarry> some other ppl on the web saying the same thing, but its not the adblocker doing it
<diddledan> wat: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38185846
<foobarry> yeah
<diddledan> https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo
<DJones> diddledan: Retire at the top when you know you;ll never do it again :)
<diddledan> infinite loop: http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2016/11/30/Google-Home-and-Amazon-Echo-have-conversation-in-infinite-loop/2521480532013/
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> set their ring tone and you could trigger it when they leave their phone down at home... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i really must make one with 'ok google, search for my little pony' and start installing it on peoples phone
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-03
<brobostigon> morning boys nd girls.
<foobarry> having terrible time with talktalk
<diddledan> :-(
<foobarry> anyone know more about this router hack problem? i have a huawi hg523a i think
<diddledan> I don't know any more than the article I shared with you yesterday, unfortunately
<foobarry> TalkTalk and other internet providers stopped providing connections to users after they were hit by a huge cyber attack.
<foobarry> under my wan settings i see 2 connections and 2 public IPs
<foobarry> thought that was weird
<zmoylan-pi> can you not just replace the supplied router with another one?
<diddledan> "Most cyber crime is about money. But every now and then there are bad guys who just want to watch the world burn."
<diddledan> seems if you're hit then your connection is cut completely by the worm
<zmoylan-pi> like the early virus writers in the 80s...
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> and the guy that bruce's willi went after who attempted a fire sale.
<diddledan> oh, no, that was about money, too.
<zmoylan-pi> but lots of hacks like this gets people nicely wound up and more accepting of the spys charter
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> that's why terrorism wins
<zmoylan-pi> oh noes, protect us from the evil haxors with legal ones!!
<zmoylan-pi> meh, i remember bomb scares in dublin in 1970s.  my father told me something very wise as i tried to pull him out of shop that was been cleared... 'you're far more likely to be hurt in a panic than an actual attack'
<diddledan> apparently new legislation in the US allows the agencies to "hack" anyone who has fallen victim to a virus or worm because the malware does bad things
<zmoylan-pi> break out your commodores and spectrums... it's time to go old school :-D
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I'm so glad the troubles are less prevalent now
<diddledan> the good friday agreement ftw
<zmoylan-pi> which may be killed by brexit...
<diddledan> yeah I heard about that - it's based on the EU human rights thingy isn't it?
<diddledan> so not being a party to the charter means the agreement gets nullified afair
<zmoylan-pi> the agreement affects a lot of things and took years to finalise and negotiate... now it'll have to be done all over again...
<diddledan> of course the idiots that voted for brexit didn't even consider the impact on things like that
<zmoylan-pi> well they were lied to good and proper... and the liars can now sit back and say it has nothing to do with them
<diddledan> well the pro-brexit liers aren't part of government so in effect it is nothing to do with them now
<zmoylan-pi> boris did well out of it
<diddledan> and then there's complaints over the government not having a plan for the thing they didn't want to happen
<diddledan> yeah, Boris is doing well
<diddledan> Trump 2.0
<zmoylan-pi> another buffoon with weird hair
<diddledan> +1
<ali1234> boris is nothing at all like trump
<ali1234> except for they both have stupid hair
<zmoylan-pi> he is intelligent, i'll give him that...
<zmoylan-pi> he got into quoting poetry at our president who finished every poem he started
<ali1234> he also has a functioning sense of humour
<diddledan> yeah I like Boris for the fun factor
<zmoylan-pi> kinda makes him more dangerous
<daftykins> hmm seems Guernsey has decided to abolish the 11+ system at long last, at age 11 kids do a test and are sent to a school based on their ability, it's caused massive labellings of "you're a failure" vs. "you passed" for years
<daftykins> lazily just repeated that here, the explanation part was to americans in other channels :)
 * penguin42 failed that, didn't get into grammar school (and still came out with a PhD in the end)
<daftykins> i suspect most will have heard of it
<zmoylan-pi> i got exactly on the cusp for the irish variant in early 80s... i got to pick what school i wanted...
<daftykins> my my
<daftykins> what were the choices?
<zmoylan-pi> secondry schools state or religious.  the religious ones have better reputation
<daftykins> are they mixed gender?
<zmoylan-pi> a better class of beatings... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> back then all single sex schools, became mixed gender as i was leaving
<daftykins> almost finished Voyager season 1, ah
<zmoylan-pi> it was a short season
<zmoylan-pi> i currently have 6 on my media player...
<daftykins> ah har
<zmoylan-pi> when the borg start showing up it got interesting
<daftykins> hrmm
<penguin42> ok, who broke libavcodec?
<daftykins> it was like that when i got here, i swear!
<zmoylan-pi> on the plus side all those feckin gifs stopped playing in the browser...
<daftykins> o0
<zmoylan-pi> works in some tabs, not others...
<zmoylan-pi> i'd look at fixing it but then there would just be more animated gifs... so you can see why i'm not in a hurry
<penguin42> now I need to go and figure out how to get my parents machines to watch h264 cctv cam again
<zmoylan-pi> try a different browser?
<daftykins> kodi \o/
<daftykins> bed for me, ta-ra \o
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I don't actually think it's ff's fault; it looks like there's a real libav bug and it's not been updated in the (non-free?) packages
<penguin42> hmm, although it's working on my 16.10 box
<penguin42> what I'm a bit surprised about is that it's moaning about it for an h264 which is probably using ff's inbuilt decoder
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-04
<mapps> hi
<mapps> noone awake at this lovely hour
<mapps> raining here again
<mapps> O_o
<dwatkins> I was awake, I just didn't get out of bed.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<fancooler> #plovdiv
<daftykins> that looks like a channel name, why share it here? are you trying to join it?
<fancooler> I'm sorry. Yes, I'm trying to join to this channel.
<daftykins> "/join #blah" then
<fancooler> Thank you, mate!
<fancooler> :)
<diddledan> note, we take no reponsibility for the content of the #blah channel
<diddledan> I hate that on websites when you click a link where they moan "we cannot be held liable for content of third-party sites. proceeding with this action is at your own risk."
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> e.g. a site that I worked on inisisted on this:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/2wKQuoOA/maalox
<diddledan> that's on a different platform to the one I worked on though - I did it with Drupal, but it seems they've moved it elsewhere now
<Azelphur> Hey folks, got a machine running Ubuntu 15.10, upgraded to a 4k TV, it boots, and decides to put itself into 4k mode, which doesn't work (It's a xeon so it doesn't support 4k) does anyone have any idea how to make it stick to 1080p?
<daftykins> EOL release so run something supported first
 * penguin42 is surprised it puts itself into 4k mode if it doesn't support it;  pastebin your /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<daftykins> or was that a typo...
<Azelphur> good point
<daftykins> what was that quirk that happened with that same CPU a bit ago? oh it was HDMI audio wasn't it?
<Azelphur> daftykins, yup
<Azelphur> same machine :)
<daftykins> mmm i remember someone buy a xeon over a desktop chip for a price saving, wonder if it had the same quirks
<Azelphur> daftykins, who knows, this is a dell server so obviously not really intended for my use case
<daftykins> how'd you end up using it for so then? XD
<Azelphur> daftykins, I didn't, it's my parents machine
<Azelphur> daftykins, I told them to buy it as a media backend to be used with frontends
<Azelphur> my dad cheaped out and decided to use it as both frontend and backend
<Azelphur> :P
<daftykins> blech folk and chasing the past of live TV
<penguin42> I think this might depend on which Xeon it is; there's big variations - most of the Xeons dont have onboard graphics
<Azelphur> daftykins, ok on 16.04 same issue now what :P
<daftykins> log as penguin42 asked
<daftykins> gotta see what X is up to
<Azelphur> daftykins / penguin42 http://paste.ubuntu.com/23579226/
<Azelphur> X runs just fine, if I ssh in and use xrandr to change the resolution to 1080p it comes up straight away.
<Azelphur> I think it's just some issue related to Xeon integrated graphics + 4k, but I don't want 4k anyway
<penguin42> that's all?
<Azelphur> that's all
<Azelphur> that's cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | pastebinit
<penguin42> bit minimal - I'd expected to see EDID and modes for the display
<Azelphur> I can give you xrandr if you like
<penguin42> you can add an xrandr command in a dot file that would probably force it
<Azelphur> penguin42, I tried adding it to ~/.xinitrc but no life
<penguin42> Azelphur: Try .xsession ?
<penguin42> Azelphur: see man Xsession
<daftykins> Azelphur: yeah but that's not running fine, that's autodetecting wrong and being unusable surely :P
<Azelphur> penguin42, no luck there either, I think it's not even running it
<Azelphur> I stuck xrandr > /home/user/xrandr.txt and xrandr --output HDMI2 --mode 1920x1080
<Azelphur> xrandr.txt isn't created (running it manually works fine)
<daftykins> btw you don't have to cat logs to pastebinit :) just "pastebinit x"
 * penguin42 makes some food back shortly
<Azelphur> daftykins, fun
<Azelphur> so any ideas?
<daftykins> yeah use a xorg.conf to force 1920x1080 at boot
<daftykins> hang on...
<Azelphur> how do I generate an xorg conf again>
<daftykins> is 16.04 really using kernel 4.4
<Azelphur> ?
<Azelphur> 4.4.0-51-generic
<daftykins> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<lubotu3`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.51.54 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<daftykins> ok, just my memory
<daftykins> and i don't know
<daftykins> you seem to have two non-standard boot params, nomdmonddf nomdmonisw
<Azelphur> that's weird, I don't remember doing that
<Azelphur> also, apparently sudo X -configure is supposed to generate a config file, but that doesn't work
<daftykins> wouldn't hurt to boot a 16.04.1 live session and see how it behaves, unless you're doing all this remotely
<Azelphur> nah I'm in front of it
<Azelphur> gonna try xorg.conf first
<Azelphur> daftykins, created /etc/X11/xorg.conf with http://paste.ubuntu.com/23579328/ still running at 4k :(
<diddledan> are you sure that modeline is right?
<Azelphur> I generated it with cvt
<penguin42> Azelphur: Does it mention your configured monitor in the Xorg.0.log now?
<Azelphur> penguin42, think so? http://paste.ubuntu.com/23579377/
<Azelphur> oh wait, it says VGA1, that's not right
<Azelphur> it's on HDMI2
<penguin42> ah now that's got the full EDID which is what I was expecting
<Azelphur> that's good
<Azelphur> I think the reason I get a black screen at 4k is because it's a xeon and doesn't have the vram for it
<Azelphur> but, I want 1080p anyway
<Azelphur> well that's fun, I've now got it to the point where it says it's doing 1080p but has actually added a new line to xrandr output, and get no signal
<penguin42> Azelphur: In your Device section I think try adding an Option "Monitor-HDMI2" "Configured monitor"
<penguin42> M
 * penguin42 worries when he's going to have to do this to Wayland - got no clue what to poke
<Azelphur> penguin42, [     4.297] (II) intel(0): Output HDMI2 using monitor section Configured Monitor
<Azelphur> but still running at 4k
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> Option "PreferredMode" "1920x1080" ?
<Azelphur> Success: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23579452/
<Azelphur> penguin42 / daftykins  thanks folks :)
<penguin42> excellent - save it somewhere and dont touch it or ask why it works :-)
<Azelphur> exactly.
<penguin42> Azelphur: You might be able to get 4k @ 30Hz out of it
<Azelphur> penguin42, yea you can
<daftykins> that always ends up looking terrible from what i've seen
<m0nkey_> Anyone using ZFS on Ubuntu, is it stable?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> h]
<Azelphur> Hey folks, I got display problem #2, different computer (laptop actually) and a 55" TV I've had for a while, the manual claims that it does 1080p @ 120hz ( http://imgur.com/a/8s2Z4 my model is the far right one ) xrandr only offers 60hz. Any suggestions?
<daftykins> yeah you're SOL
<Azelphur> daftykins, why? :<
<diddledan> http://i.imgur.com/Hqk5M7B.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> i like to think of dec 25 as the birthday of one of the greatest... isaac newtown, the invention of the catflap alone has saved millions of hours of human endeavour from standing holding a door open while a cat tries to make up their mind...
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-27
<SuperMatt> morning all
<foobarry> https://www.gearbest.com/cell-phones/pp_600562.html?wid=4&utm_source=mail_api&utm_medium=mail&utm_campaign=GB_special_171125_1511607696&eo=qg9sGukAVhqbdBHM
<foobarry> really cheap phone. does it suck as much as price suggests?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> i hope that 16gb rom means 16gb internal storage...
<zmoylan-pi> i have had a few ~100 phones. prepay jobbies on tescomobile... they work ok, for what they are. i use them as media players for podcasts and downloads.  1-2 games, 1-2 apps. nothing special. not great battery life. some shovelware
<diddledan> what's wrong with my tellingbone?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2A8q3XIhu0
<daftykins> we used to have such a museum :(
<ali1234> the worst thing is when they play a catchy tune but interrupt it every 5 seconds with "we will answer your call soon"
<daftykins> yip :)
<ali1234> and speaking of compression. i did some back-of-the-envelope calculations the other day and it turns out that with modern codecs, voice comms are cheaper if i use internet data than make a call
<ali1234> based on 3p/minute for calling and 1p/megabyte for data
<ali1234> it's like 10x cheaper in fact
<daftykins> *nod* so often the case
<ali1234> its mainly due to inertia but it could lead to a sudden change in the way people use smartphones soon i think
<diddledan> that's why a lot of companies bundle free calling minutes
<ali1234> well... the thing is that with the old codecs specified by the standards calling is appropriately priced. it's just that modern codecs use less data
<diddledan> it works out better if they keep you calling on the voice network via subscription minutes than using voip
<ali1234> it doesn't though :)
<diddledan> foor them I mean
<ali1234> no, not for them
<ali1234> it costs about the same
<ali1234> in terms of "data used"
<diddledan> monetarily
<ali1234> perhaps
<diddledan> they earn more per minute of calling if they get you to use voice gsm
<ali1234> but it also increases the infrastructure costs
<diddledan> with 4G there's VoLTE coming down the pipe soonish which means it'll all be the same pipe (data/IP-based) rsther than voicevs data
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-28
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Nafallo> did anyone upgrade 17.04 to 17.10? and how did it go?
<Nafallo> popey: ^-- you would have, right? :-)
<popey> Actually I didn't.
<popey> My laptop is still on 16.04, and on my testing machine I went direct to 17.10 clean install to test it clean
<popey> (morning btw Nafallo ) :)
<Nafallo> popey: morning, and LTNS :-)
<Nafallo> I hoped it was still implied that you'd upgrade ;-)
<Nafallo> but maybe that was just my team :-P
<popey> I am very much "stick on LTS" kind guy
<SuperMatt> I'm very much a "omg, the alpha is released and it has a shiny feature I really want to try" kinda guy
<popey> hahah
<popey> well, that too - which is why i have two laptops :)
<popey> and a million VMs
<Nafallo> and now that I'm back on IRC I'm sure I'll be on development cycles as soon as they're open ;-)
<SuperMatt> surely you should be using docker containers
<popey> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Hv4Nk4C7/Ok%2C%20not%20a%20million%2C%20but%20lots.
<popey> I do not use docker for anything at all
<Nafallo> popey: !seen Daviey
<popey> I have seen him on another irc network, but not around these parts recently
<SuperMatt> I guess it all depends what you're testing. If it's something graphical then it has to be a vm, but personally I do lots of devopsy stuff, so docker fits me well
<popey> Sure, it has its uses.
<popey> I'm more doing full system installs, and need it to be unfettered
<Nafallo> popey: so he exists, but missed me so much he decided to leave the network? :-O
 * Nafallo notice popey learnt not to feed trolls
<popey> maybe
<Nafallo> if I'd be in London, I'd get a beer though surely? :-)
<Nafallo> that being said. Gothenburg has beer, but way more expensive, and way more percentage :-P
<Seeker`> o/
<foobarry> any redditors here please upvote to help out old foobarry https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadminjobs/comments/7g39cy/hiring_hpclinux_sysadmin_london_use_awesome/
<foobarry> wow popey is here. haven't seen him for a while
<popey> I think i chat less on irc in general these days
<foobarry> i installed mate on my spare laptop after cloudready/chromebook kept freezing/turning off
<popey> foobarry: tried posting to linux jobs mailing list?
<foobarry> i used to years ago, but figured its died out a bit now - how many subscribers on that list?
<foobarry> and i got some weirdos approaching me via that list
<foobarry> worth a go i suppose
<Seeker`> any worse than the weirdos you get on irc?
<zmoylan-pi> ahem, you only get the *BEST* weirdos on irc! :-)
<foobarry> i actually have an interesting , exciting and rewarding job, but nobody wants it :|
<foobarry> except weirdos
<SuperMatt> Problem is, all the good SysAds are becoming DevOps and SREs, so using the term SysAd doesn't get as many eyeballs
<SuperMatt> But I have upvoted, as per your request
<foobarry> this jobs uses devops tools and workflows
<SuperMatt> Then make sure you say devops
<foobarry> but more interesting than devops work ;)
<SuperMatt> talk about the tools and workflows that'll be involved
<foobarry> ok will do thx
<foobarry> my firefox has gone titsup
<foobarry> cannot resize the content ..thats a new one
<zmoylan-pi> but did it do it faster and with less ram and cpu? :-)
<TwistedLucidity> FF has been playing up for me today. Turned out to be a change in NoScript
<foobarry> resize the browser window but the page size stayed there
<CoderEurope> We are the knight of nih and we demand ...
<CoderEurope> we demand ....
<CoderEurope> um ..
<CoderEurope> er...
<CoderEurope> a shubbery bush !
<CoderEurope> bye.
<daftykins> big news everyone, the builders have left!
<zmoylan-pi> ...they've taken the roof till your cheque clears? :-P
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> aaah it feels so good, all their gear has been cleared out, my bikes are back in the hall where they belong instead of in my way here in the lounge... and i have my office back
<daftykins> although so far all i've done is mopped the (visible) floor in there... so many windows to paint inside and out still
<zmoylan-pi> peace, quiet, bliss, till you hear the clock ticking behind a new wall... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> ooops.... https://twitter.com/lemiorhan/status/935581020774117381
<daftykins> i can outlast its' batteries!
<zmoylan-pi> new clocks can go years on batteries...
<daftykins> oh dear oh dear
<daftykins> mmm, insanity might find me first
<zmoylan-pi> 13 years...http://wgntv.com/2017/06/19/alarm-clock-stuck-inside-wall-for-13-years-goes-off-every-day/
<diddledan> haha. gotta love a clock going off like clockwork
<daftykins> assuming you clock what's happening ;D
<zmoylan-pi> i did find online for my brother a few years back a gizmo that ran off a p9 battery that beeped every random number of hours so once every 2-3 days... to drop in a frenemies gaff to drive them bonkers
<daftykins> ooh that's evil
<zmoylan-pi> been that evil requires careful planning... because you care... not in a good way mind >:-)
<zmoylan-pi> easy to make a microbit arduino do it now... could run years off right battery combo
<zmoylan-pi> think father ted ripping the place apart to find the bug in the one about the over 75s football game... :-D
<diddledan> that's just silly: https://www.neowin.net/news/hdmi-21-is-finally-here-and-it-has-support-for-10k-resolution
<daftykins> well when my new TV arrives i'll immediately throw it out ;)
<zmoylan-pi> because you want to be able to count the nasal hairs in every news readers nose?
<diddledan> that or you want a 12foot tv
<daftykins> pah you won't get broadcast in that :)
<zmoylan-pi> 12foot... pffft, metric... 4m tv
<diddledan> I think 65inches is still silly
<daftykins> really? they look normal if the room is appropriate
<zmoylan-pi> they'll start showing wimbledon from centre line so that you look left and right with the audience at the areana... :-)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> in the box will be the little plane journey cushions to help your neck
<zmoylan-pi> the sony version will waft scent of vanilla and strawberries if you pay to 'sit' in the posh section
<zmoylan-pi> did i see recently that ms latest xbox doesn't support 4k games, only sony playstation latest offering?
<zmoylan-pi> so even 4k is not generating huge demand
<daftykins> no that's incorrect
<zmoylan-pi> ah...
<daftykins> the PS4 Pro is medicore at 4K so mostly makes use of checkerboarding to make up the resolution, the very latest "xbox one x" is meant to achieve 60fps at 4K just fine
<daftykins> though most of the time will be spent watching the download bar for any given games' update to allow the improvements :D
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect a pay per pixel system... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> haven't had a console since original playstation or nintendo ds lite
<daftykins> i think the latest big titles are now hitting 100GB on that latest model
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Nafallo> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<Nafallo> is it morning?
<Nafallo> perhaps mornings are just a social construct.
<Nafallo> *yawns*
<zmoylan-pi> somewhere out there is a big bowl of hot porridge with my name on it...
<Nafallo> zmoylan-pi: pret? ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> pret?
<Nafallo> don't they have porridge there? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it just requires some assembly...
<zmoylan-pi> and dragging myself out from under warm duvet...
<Nafallo> http://www.pret.co.uk/en-gb/623-breakfast-pret's-proper-porridge.aspx they do \o/
<zmoylan-pi> i add milk to the porridge, after it is made, not during... ick
<brobostigon> and i can imagine their porridge is overpriced and not very good anyway.
<diddledan> apple and qualcomm spat continues: https://9to5mac.com/2017/11/29/apple-accuses-qualcomm-of-infringing-patents/
<zmoylan-pi> meanwhile the little people are been crushed as godzilla attacks mothra in the city...
<diddledan> wat: just spotted a random tweet promoting a job vacancy for the role of "software developer launchpad" - I have no idea what kind of work a "software developer launchpad" does: https://twitter.com/remote_ok/status/935895144716521472
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/6ZfuNTqbHE8
<daftykins> diddledan: must be hydraulics over ethernet (HoE) for a physical pad for launching
<svasilev> t
<zmoylan-pi> give me a?
<brobostigon> and a p?
<Azelphur> and an e?
<Azelphur> ali1234: hello, have you seen the bitcoin price :P
<zmoylan-pi> completely not a bubble...
<Azelphur> they said that at $1, $30, $100, $1000, $5000, $10000... :P
<daftykins> it will have a beginning and an end, bubble :)
<zmoylan-pi> true enough, doesn't make it a not a bubble
<zmoylan-pi> i did see someone who got in early a few years ago traded his bitcoin for a tesla
<Nafallo> hmm. might be time to buy some gandi cloud coins for bitcoins soon ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder how much that first pizza bought with bitcoin cost now
<zmoylan-pi> ah, 10,000 bitcoin for a pizza...
<Azelphur> heh, I have some really funny purchases in my past
<Azelphur> bought CS:GO for 1.7 BTC :P
<Oli> Erk
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder if they found that hard drive with early mined bitcoins that got dumped in a tip... worth remining it now :-)
<Azelphur> nah they didn't afaik
<zmoylan-pi> or at least not admit it in case tax man came knocking... :-)
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: don't have to pay tax on bitcoins, only if you spend them or convert them to fiat :P
<zmoylan-pi> no no, i'd at least get a ferarri :-P
<vinceonc4news7oc> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/pets/news-features/police-dog-fired-job-adorable-reason/
<daftykins> webchat user, joins channel, posts news link - mmhmm
<Azelphur> something about dogs too, guess he's lost.
<zmoylan-pi> irc is for cats :-P
<zmoylan-pi> =^..^=
<daftykins> cool for cats
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zleap> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<foobarry> left my laptop at the barbers this morning
<foobarry> didn't notice until got to my desk :(
<TwistedLucidity> Hey, I just a great laptop for sale on eBay!
<zmoylan-pi> did you get the laptop back?
<foobarry> will pick it up on the way home, otherwise its a 45 min round trip from my desk
<foobarry> i was worried i'd left it on the train/bus but i called him
<foobarry> lucky i already gave a tip
<zmoylan-pi> hope your internet history is password protected... :-P
<foobarry> he might find out i visited github?
<diddledan> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<Rixon> if I use dpkg-recofnigure mysql-server-[version] will I lose slave setup and DBs?
<Rixon> I tried resetting root pw with --init-script, failed, tried with --skip-networking and --skip-grants, still failed so hoping dpkg-reconfigure will just set root pw and be done?
<Rixon> is there a way I can tell what dpkg-reconfigure would do?
<diddledan> awesome! http://httpd.apache.org/docs/trunk/mod/mod_md.html
<diddledan> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/us/politics/state-department-tillerson-pompeo-trump.html
<diddledan> so basically yet another new CIA director
<diplo> A republican as well yep, can't be long till the guy gets impeached I think
<diplo> Don't do what I say you'll be kicked out
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-01
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> morning all
<SuperMatt> officially in to my last month
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: excellent :) bet you can't wait to finish ;0
<SuperMatt> Indeed not. I think the next two weeks will be me actually working, then after that I will be slacking to the max
<MooDoo> lol :)
<diddledan> moo
<SuperMatt> doo
<MooDoo> :)
<SuperMatt> Today, I'll mostly be watching a quake champions tournament, because I have naff-all else to do: https://imgur.com/MrNqwOi
<diddledan> haha. nice
<diddledan> esports are getting quite professional these days
<MooDoo> diddledan: you'd be surprised, they have been for years :)
<SuperMatt> I find it very funny that the presenters are wearing shirts and blazers in an attempt to legitimise eports
<SuperMatt> *esports
<MooDoo>  theres a thing to try and get esports into the olympics lol
<SuperMatt> I've always thought that olympic sports should show survival skills
<SuperMatt> esports do no such thing
<diddledan> the 100m sprint is survival of outrunning a lion?
<diddledan> I'm not sure how gymnastics would fit into that paradigm
<diddledan> e.g. the pommel horse
<SuperMatt> The pommel horse would skill of leaping over boulders
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<diddledan> perfect depiction of IT:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/FsqWjhDv/
<daftykins> diddledan: Mischief helped me paint again up on the scaffold today, well... mostly she was a gymnast climbing the ladder on *both* sides - https://imgur.com/a/6HVWO
<diddledan> kitty says your Dee Eye Whys are bad
<daftykins> she'd never!
<daftykins> mostly she'd enquire as to why i'm up faffing about with a brush instead of providing a warm lap on the sofa
<diddledan> aww, warm lap cat ftw
<diddledan> lol, where do folk find funny images for their conference talks?!  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/bATUzADp/
<daftykins> 9gag? ;)
<diddledan> shush! I'm blind!
<daftykins> goodness, called out to a clients because they had TV troubles, get there - the TV remote had been switched over to control 'STB' so power wasn't turning it on, cycle it back to 'TV' and it was fine ;)
<zmoylan-pi> time to travel there and back?
<daftykins> already did yeah, in fairness they're only 600m up the road ;)
<zmoylan-pi> not too bad then... not a 12hour drive there, flip a switch and 12 hours back...
<daftykins> also a funny request from there "can't book the hyatt in San Francisco, site says 'access denied' can you fix please?"
<daftykins> sec let me just go and get my keys to the internet...
<daftykins> oh zmoylan-pi i gave them to you last!
<zmoylan-pi> i'd have to make a prilgrimage to big ben were the internet is stored to fix it... extra hassle now that the scaffolding is in place...
<zmoylan-pi> i think the scaffolding is blocking the signal.... :-P ::intends to use that excuse in near future::
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> can anyone recommend a male grooming shaver type thing? not the big clippers but the small ones the size of a toothpaste tube?
<foobarry> for diong neck hair and sideburns etc
<foobarry> the beard trimmer on my electric shaver does not suffice
<zmoylan-pi> be honest... you want to shave your teams name into your back hair... :-D
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> i don't have back hair though :P
<foobarry> my barbers ones are nice but i dont know what make they are
<foobarry> lots on amazon. don't know whats a good one
<daftykins> that's right, out of sight, out of mind ;)
<daftykins> reviews any clue? not that such can be trusted...
<zmoylan-pi> some people are naturally hairer than others :-) https://imgur.com/gallery/s1Ih4
<foobarry> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B072MQCK3B?ref=emc_b_5_t
<foobarry> thinking this one
<foobarry> surely u guys must have one?
<daftykins> i'm still facial hair challenged at 32 years young
<ali1234> the big hair clippers are sooo good for beard trimming tho
<daftykins> foobarry: this advert on twitch is always going on about the philips one-blade or something
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-OneBlade-Trimmer-Exclusive-Bathroom/dp/B01FFSI7XI/
<zmoylan-pi> ask someone with a beard? http://bestbeardever.com/need-a-great-sideburn-trimmer-there-are-two-ways-to-go/
<foobarry> thats interesting daftykins , never seen one like that
<zmoylan-pi> whatever this guy uses... http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/15/article-2693149-1FA9D7C000000578-572_634x562.jpg
<foobarry> my neck is v sensitive and comes out in weals
<foobarry> so i use remington foil shaver
<diddledan> not publicly accessible, but I'm indexing the ubuntu irc logs:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/zRfcfN4k/
<foobarry> ewww see the guys bleeding throat on the reviews?
<daftykins> D:
<zmoylan-pi> the manly way to do it.... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> i do remember seeing pics of desert rats shaving in petrol in wwii as water was so scarce...
<daftykins> wowzer
<diddledan> brbrb gonna reboob to plug a sata dic in
<daftykins> you're getting worse :P
<diddledan> that's unpossible!
<zmoylan-pi> diddledan just knows how to craunch a marmoset
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_As_She_Is_Spoke
<foobarry> amazon still accept vine reviews? grrr
<foobarry> not only that but they always appear so high up
<foobarry> first 30 reviews i've checked so far
<foobarry> oh wow , it's nearly every one out of the 100 or so
<daftykins> every one that what?
<foobarry> "vine review of free product"
<foobarry> i skip those because they didn't pay for the product
<foobarry> it really devalues amazon and the brands they sell to have reviewers who got free stuff
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> mmm didn't they stop that eventually? i thought i heard something about it
<zmoylan-pi> there was talk of downgrading such reviews... as to if it happened or not...
<zmoylan-pi> voyager firing up thrusters dormant longer than a lot of folk in this channel have been alive... https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/12/after-37-years-voyager-has-fired-up-its-trajectory-thrusters/
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> wowzer
<zmoylan-pi> be very thankful it's not running windows... think of all those service patches...
<daftykins> or a Linux distro, sending all those recompiled utils to fix core functions (:
<zmoylan-pi> be thankful they're not compiling gentoo on a 70s processor... :-)
<foobarry> when i'm watching computerphile, i always wonder where all the fanfold line printer paper comes from
<foobarry> they always write on it. is it left over stock from the 90s?
<daftykins> haha the ol' tractor fed stuff eh? i think my Dad brought home one of those with the Apple II's back in the day
<daftykins> i remember he insisted on printing out the text-based adventure game BASIC to error check it
<foobarry> when i was at uni i used to get a line printout from the unix machines and then write the new code by hand using pen and type it up the next day in the lab
<foobarry> manual debugging
<foobarry> mid 90s..no PC at the house
<zmoylan-pi> there will always be a need for fan fold printer paper... i worked for companies in 80s that printed off their entire database week after week in case their computers were subject to emp
<foobarry> and did the EMP every happen?
<zmoylan-pi> i'll put money down they still are
<zmoylan-pi> of course not, but there disaster recovery was designed in case it did
<zmoylan-pi> just train up cockroaches to replace the fried humans and keep going
<foobarry> https://youtu.be/qjZuI0FT9Z8?t=425 they write on it every episode
<zmoylan-pi> i did see their disaster recovery in operation when building next door collapesed while it was been demolished and crashed into their accounts department
<zmoylan-pi> the server we had just installed took rock to the case. and water on motherboard. carpet destroyed, windows knocked in, desks broken.
<daftykins> foobarry: wowzer
<zmoylan-pi> as we rebuilt server. swarms of electricians, carpet folk, carpenters, window frame guys and glaziers came through and fixed it for monday
<diddledan> EMP? that reminds me of a 90s cult-ish sci-fi called Dark Angel
<diddledan> supposedly set in a murrica post EMPping
<daftykins> diddledan: the premise behind that sounds a lot like Stranger Things o0
<zmoylan-pi> there's a few books now posing such senarios
<diddledan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Angel_(TV_series)
<zmoylan-pi> eventually some mad bugger will do it so even civilian electronics will need some form of hardening
<zmoylan-pi> just think... no more cat videos...
<diddledan> stand back, I'm making it hard!
<diddledan> ..ened*
 * daftykins groans
<zmoylan-pi> don't you'll only excite diddledan
<daftykins> that's true
<zmoylan-pi> when in doubt confuse them, make distressed camel noises...
<daftykins> that's a sacred animal in Guernsey
<zmoylan-pi> getting one for christmas? a bugger to fit in the oven... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> you'll be going on camel sandwiches for months...
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> 2-3 days just to get through a drumstick...
 * diddledan makes camel noises: WAAAAGGGGHHHHHH
 * zmoylan-pi nods to daftykins 
<zmoylan-pi> quick, i'll get the onions and stuffing.... :-P
<daftykins> and some kind of gag to stop the spitting
<zmoylan-pi> what do you think the onions are for?
<daftykins> ah haaaa
<zmoylan-pi> not my first camel stuffing... :-P
 * daftykins prods m0nkey_ 
<daftykins> oi you're not fulfilling your obligations as not-shauno enough :)
<zmoylan-pi> maybe we've fallen behind in our hobnob payments to m0nkey_
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> i was sure they'd not notice the switch to generic hibnibs...
<daftykins> i've not heard of those!
<zmoylan-pi> i couldn't think of the generics i see in aldi/lidl... oaties i think... so i made up hibnibs...
<christel> -1
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> christel: did you deduct zmoylan-pi a point for his made up biscuit name? :)
 * zmoylan-pi restores balance to the channel... +1
<daftykins> phew ;)
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't want the channel going off on a tangent...
<christel> oops
<christel> hahaha
<christel> yes
<zmoylan-pi> but that would merely be a sine of the times...
<daftykins> oh dear oh dear oh dear
<daftykins> easy, we're nearly at our 2017 quota of puns
<zmoylan-pi> and we'd have no iota of how to correct things...
 * zmoylan-pi celebrates â¬4 win on lotto.... \o/
<daftykins> quick, 4 more tickets
<zmoylan-pi> sure a few million would be nice... i could buy that netbook i have my eye on... :-)
<daftykins> eww
<zmoylan-pi> and 2 macbooks to make a solid clamshell case for it... :-D
<daftykins> as long as you cover the logo!
<daftykins> i've got a serious craptop in right now, an Acer E1 that needs a new screen thrown in
<zmoylan-pi> those are on the inside and ripped out so you can insert some cables... :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-02
<diddledan> you know I said that my indexing of the ubuntu irc archive isn't public? well now part of it is visible via : https://ubulog.com/function/ubulog-chart (a json output of x/y coordinates for the chart)
<diddledan> you can see all the channel names in the index at (json, again)
<diddledan> don't haxx0r me
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> can you put in a feature that ranks the level of risquÃ© lines from you per year on a scale of 1 to 10? :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> going up
<diddledan> up to 5.3million messages in the database now
<daftykins> my my
<daftykins> what kinda storage is that munching?
<diddledan> it's munching these (https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/) into elasticsearch
<diddledan> using logstash as the processor
<daftykins> i shared that QuickBooks 126GB log file pic didn't i? i forget
<diddledan> I can't remember it
<diddledan> this is my mirror code: https://github.com/ubuntu-chatlog/ubulog-mirror/blob/master/ubumirror.sh
<daftykins> https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/VjbBdT9kPfEudq2
<diddledan> and this is logstash config: https://github.com/ubuntu-chatlog/ubulog-logstasher/blob/master/ubuntu-log-archive.conf
<diddledan> wow, that's a hooge logfile
<diddledan> and only 1 year of logs
<daftykins> 0.75 years :D
<diddledan> what was it dumping in there?!
<diddledan> must have been burning a lot of IOPS
<daftykins> i can only guess from the file name, i was wiping that one for an SSD upgrade at the time
<daftykins> client kept asking about software quirks and i had to keep reassuring that any gripes were moot until the fresh installs were on
<diddledan> me go nuneyes.. nn
<diddledan> since when do lawsuits get branding? https://www.youoweus.co.uk/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> morning brobostigon
<diddledan> I just had a twang of memory. wasn't there a named person in the game "Starship Titanic" called brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> yep, :)
<diddledan> the ol' grey cells do sometimes work then ;-p
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> I'm getting all functional: `es.search(getQuery(maybeGetSubQuery(maybeGetChannelFromInput(content))))`
<m0nkey_> hmmm?
<daftykins> m0nkey_: you're been AWOL!
<m0nkey_> busy with family
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> well hope all is well :)
<m0nkey_> it is :)
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out the non generic hobnobs...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Out of desperation or celebration?
<m0nkey_> new ethernet cable put together.
<m0nkey_> but i have nothing to tack it to the wall
<penguin42> tape?
<zmoylan-pi> chewing gum? :-)
<m0nkey_> nah, get something like this.. https://www.rona.ca/en/wire-cover---rounded-wire-cover
<penguin42> apparently I've been blocked!
<m0nkey_> ?
<penguin42> m0nkey_: It wont let me see that page; rona's web server is saying 'Your IP address has been blocked by the security solution.'
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> same thing, different store.. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/cordmate-channel-cord-cover-5-ft-0522300p.html#srp
<penguin42> ah, kind of like trunking
<m0nkey_> yeah
<m0nkey_> cleaner than wire staples
<penguin42> would normally use plastic cleats
<m0nkey_> i would too, but they don't have them in this country.
<m0nkey_> or at least i've never seen them in hardware stores
<penguin42> psst got any cleats?
<penguin42> haha
<zleap> cleats,  as in football boots
<penguin42> zleap: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Plastic-round-nail-cable-clip-electrical_60283055645.html
<zleap> ah ok
<zleap> so cable clips
<penguin42> nod
<zleap> ah
<zleap> talking of boots my rugby boots are probably at the trojans training ground,  will look tomorrow i need to catch up with em
<zmoylan-pi> they don't call it duct tape for nothing... :-) http://n7.alamy.com/zooms/b2914cfaa796475f8df8a6244f247a33/detail-with-electric-television-cables-fixed-on-the-floor-with-duct-eg25ha.jpg
<ali1234> that's why it's also called gaffer tape
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: That's a surprisingly small amount of tape :-)
<zmoylan-pi> a little duct tape goes a long way... why one roll is enough to hog tie 3 deer to the hood of your car... :-)
<penguin42> is that something you frequently have to do ?
<zmoylan-pi> of course not, that would illegal and dangerous.
<zmoylan-pi> and 3 deer will last you the year... :-P
<penguin42> big freezer?
<m0nkey_> Hey, my hardware store had the clips.
<m0nkey_> Awesome
<m0nkey_> Now to install the new cable
<daftykins> :)
<m0nkey_> Done
<daftykins> what's now wired that wasn't before?
<m0nkey_> ANd the cable connected at GbE speeds right away. Before if I disconnected the old cable and re-plugged, it wouldn't always go GbE. It would fall back to FastEthernet speeds.
<daftykins> heh :)
<daftykins> dodgy pin mayhaps
<m0nkey_> the previous cable was stapled to the wall. I think I previously used too tight staples.
<m0nkey_> then somebody has tugged on the cable stripping it slightly
<daftykins> renting or something? couldn't hide it good? :>
<m0nkey_> yes, renting
<m0nkey_> otherwise i'd have torn the dry wall off, run a cable and ethernet jack
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-03
<Knightwise> morning peeps
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls and Knightwise
